open thread – March 18-19, 2022

by Alison Green on March 18, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 1,141 comments }

{ 1,141 comments… read them below }

  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Note that I’ve removed the “questions only” rule that I was experimenting with the past couple of weeks. Work stories are once again fine!

  2. Wen*

    How to ask to take on a totally new role or responsibility outside the scope of my job at work? My new workplace has made it clear they are very open to new ideas and changing procedures, systems, ways of doing things, etc. I’m taking a course in data privacy with aims to move into that field because it’s growing in demand, as opposed to my current job which has layoffs and outsourcing. (I got a new job late last year because my contract at my previous company wasn’t renewed and others were laid off.) I also notice my new organization doesn’t have a very established privacy practice, so I’d like to contribute to that. How would I approach my organization about new duties/opportunities, or should I just look for a privacy role elsewhere like my original plan? (My original plan would require taking a paycut as I’d be entering into a new field without previous experience, just a certificate/training.)

    1. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      I’d approach your manager, and literally lay out what you did here: “I noticed we have a lack in the field of privacy practices, and I’m really enthusiastic about it, as well as taking a course right now. Can I work on improving us in that area?”

      Problem is, you’re more than likely going to see them want you to do it in addition to your other responsibilities, instead of in replacement of. To get buy in, it can be helpful to set it up as a mini-internship sort of thing – plan a specific time that you’ll be working on things, get them to sign off on that, and have deliverables and an end date all defined at, or very close to, the beginning.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Good idea! Pitch it as a limited term “pilot project” (probably a silly quibble on my part, I wouldn’t call it an internship), while expressing interest in seeing if there’s a path to make it a role, hybrid with your current one or a new role entirely.

    2. ThinkQuicker*

      I did this at my current job. I started by having general discussions with co-workers about our current policies/procedures and where this was acting as a block rather than a help. I didn’t frame this as “I’m taking charge of the project and I’m collating feedback”, I just brought it up in conversation naturally when it became relevant. For example, a colleague and I were trying to on-board a new client and were both griping that the current system was labour-intensive and had too many moving parts. I asked her how she would do it if she was running things and the conversation went from there.

      Once I had an idea of what problems we were all facing and where I thought I could help, I spoke to a director I worked closely with. I framed the conversation as a) I like working here and want us to success, b) these current processes seem to be making people less efficient and that has an impact on the business, c) I think I could help by doing [x, y, z], d) is that something the business is interested in? If so, it’s a project I’d like to move forward with.

      This wasn’t something we’d ever had anyone working on before so I would have been on my own with that project. The director in question was receptive but it took another 2 years to get the rest of management on board. In the meantime, I kept building my skills and when I had quarterly/yearly appraisals working in at least 1 target which was geared towards that new work rather than my current responsibilities. By the time management were ready to appointment someone to do the work everyone knew it was something I was interested in and they decided to take a chance on me. It panned out – I’m really good at this work and I’m thriving in the new role.

      tldr: test the waters with your current employer – no harm in asking – but be prepared for things to move slowly and it may be that you do ultimately need to look elsewhere.

      Good luck!

    3. ArtK*

      It may help to do some research on the consequences of *not* preserving data privacy. A few years ago, a UCLA study found that the average cost of a data breach is $3.5M, including remediating the issues, public relations, lawsuits, etc. If you’re in the EU or do business there, there are very strict laws around privacy as well. Use that stuff in your pitch.

    4. Cranky Lady*

      I’m doing something similar related to digital accessibility which is tangential to my job (but outside of my scope to lead). I put it in my professional development plan at the beginning of the year. I showed my boss how it tied into corporate priorities and initiatives. Also think about who the other stakeholders you will need to engage are because that will affect how much you can actually accomplish. Good luck!

    5. Sunny*

      I’m doing something similar right now (not the same fields, but trying to take on a new role at my job that I have training but no work experience in). I just went to my boss and was very clear about what kind of roles I wanted to try and move into in the next years, what responsibilities I’d want, and how that might differ from the path she was expecting. It went well and she is trying to help me move into something now :) It helped that I had already done some work in this field while at this job so it wasn’t completely out of the blue.

      Worst case is she’d have said nothing would come up and then I’d have been happy to stay at the job while I looked for something new. But just like you, I’d rather stay where I am to avoid the pay cut and because I like where I am right now.

  3. ThatGirl*

    Here’s a very timely question for you all… I’ve worked in a variety of marketing-related roles over the last 15 years, but all writing and editing related, so I call myself a copywriter for simplicity.

    I’m not looking for a new job, but you know, I keep my eyes open. I got an email from a recruiter from a healthcare app startup last week. I read through it and it was mostly corporate gibberish with no clear indication of what the job actually IS – I have no idea what a “marketing growth manager” does. And I don’t particularly want to work for a startup. So I ignored it.

    She emailed me again just a few minutes ago asking again to connect next week! I feel like I should email her back, but should I say anything beyond the very standard “thanks but no thanks”?

    1. 867-5309*

      This sound like a demand generation role – paid media to drive leads/downloads. When I’m hiring a growth marketer that is the job.

      1. ThatGirl*

        ah, that makes sense – I just wish it were clear in the job description! While I’ve written my share of paid media posts, the logistics behind it are unfamiliar to me, and I definitely don’t think I have the skills they’re looking for. Even if the company interested me in the first place.

        1. 867-5309*

          Yeah, I would be looking for someone who can drive the performance – not creative side. That said, it’s a start-up and depending on if they have a senior marketer in place already or not, it’s likely they aren’t quite sure what they need.

    2. 867-5309*

      I think you can reply ‘thanks but I’m not looking’ or be more specific, “My experience is more on the writing and editorial side of marketing, like copy and ghost writing, so this role does not match my skillset.” If you’re interested in the company itself, you could always add, “Please keep me in mind if something similar to my background opens on the team.”

      1. ThatGirl*

        I mostly do, especially third party recruiters, but this one seems to work for the actual company so it feels *slightly* ruder to me. Maybe I’m just too Midwestern though.

        1. Raboot*

          It’s definitely up to you, but I do ignore plenty of in house recruiters as well :) Most of them don’t send more than 3 messages, so replying after the 2nd and then they maybe respond doesn’t save much on my end compared to ignoring a 3rd. But there’s of course nothing wrong with a polite response if it feels right to you.

    4. Neurodivergentsaurus Rex*

      In my experience “Thank you, but I’m not currently looking for a job” is fine. If you don’t reply they’ll keep reaching out.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yeah. I just don’t quite understand why someone looked at my LinkedIn or whatever and thought “oh, she looks like she knows about paid media and lead generation!”

        1. Momma Bear*

          Because they’re looking under all rocks. It’s OK to say thanks but not looking/interested.

    5. ArtK*

      I always reply “thanks, but no thanks.” Most recruiters respect that. Ignoring some will just mean more e-mails until they finally give up.

  4. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    I’m back with musings. It’s hard to capture what you’ve achieved at work when you don’t have ..achievements? Mostly I’ve achieved ” gotten through the day ” or ” my paperwork is on time mostly ” . Working itself is such a struggle I can’t really put any achievements on my resume.

    I think its odd our work system centers around the idea of the excellent employee when most of us are average and things would be better if we shaped work around ” ok folks will go in, do average work for 40 hours” rather than praying for the unicorn.

    2. Resident Catholicville, USA*

      I have traditionally worked in jobs where there isn’t a lot of a “achievement” so I’ve listed my job duties as well as a very few smatterings of “achievements” that I’ve had over the course of those jobs in my resume. So far, I’ve been hired at 5 different places and comments I’ve received about my resume never mention that (usually it’s a formatting issue or a confusion over job titles if I’ve been promoted within an organization). It does kind of help to think of projects you’ve contributed to or lead as achievements instead of just your day to day duties. As an example, one organization I worked for was audited by multiple government agencies. My day to day job helped prepare the organization for the yearly audits AND I worked on the actual audit prep (didn’t lead it, but did most of the heavy lifting in my division). I counted both things as achievements as something like, “The five years I was in this position, the yearly audits resulted in our organization being awarded the best scores of the region.” 100% my efforts, though not as project lead and my daily work, contributed to that- we could have still done well without my prep, but it would have taken a lot more time and effort in the long run.

    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      Can you quantify stuff? Like, “completed an average of X llama reports per week with high level of detail?”

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        It’s hard to quantify the core stuff which is like sitting with kids in a hard situation and hashing things out and maybe it’s not solved but they feel lighter. Or maybe I’ll say ” hey kids been struggling” and point an adult to a way of helping. And to be quite honest most of the time I’m just struggling to make it through the day. My reports are terrible!

        1. Double A*

          That IS an accomplishment. The results for the kids aren’t quantifiable, but you can include quantifiable aspects of it like the number of kids you see on a daily or weekly basis. For instance you could say something along these lines, very much customized to your setting:

          -Established trusting relationships with (Xish number) of students/clients and provided a collaborative, safe environment to support them in developing coping skills for difficult situations.
          -Taught students skills such as [reframing negative thoughts; perspective-taking; calming strategies; etc.]

          A cover letter would really bring these skills to life, by sharing an example of the impact your interventions had for a specific kid. (E.g. “Prior to our weekly meetings, this student was having verbal outbursts in the classroom daily. After four weeks of meetings where we worked on XYZ, he began to ABC and was able to use appropriate strategies to take a break, re-center, and return to the classroom without distrupting the learning of others.”)

          I do a lot of this type of work in my job; I think it’s the most important work I do and you can absolutely find ways to put it on your resume.

        2. my experience*

          Something like this, maybe?: “Consistently built relationships with students who were hard to reach” “Able to connect with students in an emotionally charged state, and teachers reported increased focus afterwards in students I worked with”.

          I really like Alison’s advice which is to think about a bad temp doing your job… what’s the difference between you and them? If your work is about connection, connection is an accomplishment!

          1. Momma Bear*

            And if you can apply anything to an IEP or 504 support or goal, do that as well. “Worked with x child for x time on y goal. At the end of the marking period, child had made x% progress toward that goal.”

            Being able to build connections with kids so they trust you is HUGE. Don’t downplay that.

        3. Margaretmary*

          I’m in a different country where it seems like our job applications work somewhat differently, but I wonder if you could also include something like “advised teachers/parents/whatever adults it is you are working on strategies such as (whatever it was) to support young people” or “supported teachers/parents/whoever by advising on issues such as…”

    4. Elsa*

      As a hiring manager, I am impressed with specific accomplishments but I mostly want to know if you have the experience needed for the role to which you are applying. So your resume could be essentially your job description in a more scannable format.

    5. Fabulous*

      I had this issue for a couple of my old jobs. I essentially just quantified my duties:

      • Oversaw reception for a high-activity financial services office with up to 45 appointments and approximately 50 phone calls and walk-ins daily.
      • Managed reports tracking collection rates and rolling debt of approximately 1,500 weekly returned checks from over 130 nationwide stores.
      • Maintained the calendar and client database for over 300 active clients while implementing marketing campaigns, facilitating prospecting and networking endeavors, and administering social media profiles.

    6. SansaStark*

      I had this issue, too, and while my resume was still fairly task-focused, I tried to ask myself how my bullet point about this task would differ from someone who wasn’t good at it. Reframing the work into ‘why am I better at this than someone who just started 3 minutes ago’ really helped the way I thought/wrote about what I did.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Yea I’m not good at my job ( or any job) but I can explain it to the newbs so they are comfortable enough to get good at it.

        1. SansaStark*

          It took me years to find a job/industry that I both enjoy and am good at. Good luck in your job search!

      1. A Girl Named Fred*

        As someone who started counting down the hours to the weekend sometime yesterday, I’m with you both. Just wanted to throw another voice to the, “You aren’t alone in this boat,” crowd.

  5. a question*

    I have a personal question that needs a professional business resource.

    A little backstory…..Despite my aunts and uncles on my dad’s large family all being close in age, all of the cousins have a wide age range. Between the oldest and youngest is almost 30 years! We are now at a point where the youngest is late teens/ early twenties (being general for anonymity). We all always got along, but it took a while for us all to be able to have “meat and potato” conversations. Sadly in addition to an age gap, we also geographically live all over the world.

    As silly as this sounds our cousin group, the great debaters, one of the things that brought us closer together was talking/ debating about what’s going on in the news. Certain topics are off limits (we’d like to keep talking to one another!) but we have had many texting and zoom debates about human interest stories, court cases, business decisions, criminal trials, celebrity announcements, music/movies/sporting events. Our discussions are nothing more than a conversation you would have with an old friend.

    Does anyone know of a good legal? resource to find out in laymen terms if appeals have been filed, court decisions, updates etc? We’ve had a lot discussions about topics where a business decision was made via a court ruling. The news outlets always says we are waiting to hear about an appeal, but no amount of internet sleuthing has found us updates. Some things that were discussed should of had a “next step” by now. We’re just a curious bunch… and maybe a little nosy for the final outcome after all of us trying to prove our point….. especially since I’m right most of the time ;-)

    Like I said this was something that brought our wide age range of cousins to have discussions that eventually lead to more personal talks. It was our “common ground”.

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      In my field, when we are doing our version of due diligence on a company (or individual), this situation comes up a lot. We’ve actually been wondering this ourselves. We hypothesize that there might be such resources out there, but they are likely to be paid resources.

      1. a question*

        It’s mind boggling! There are two court cases involving business decisions that happened in the past 5 and 8 years that were big topics for us. It’s frustrating to not have an update or find out what the final result was, what the company decided to do. Again this is for a personal conversation so it’s not an urgent matter but we’re still curious none the less.

        1. RecoveringSWO*

          Keep in mind that settlement agreements are often confidential. You might be able to find a joint motion for dismissal that denotes a settlement, but that doesn’t mean you’ll be able to find out the terms of the settlement. It stifles the conclusion for folks following along in the press, but that’s part of why Companies may choose to settle…

        2. Claire*

          Have you checked the federal PACER system? It’s where all the docket documents are filed and final case dispositions etc. You have to register to make a search and they charge you if you do a lot of searches (I’ve never searched enough to be charged).

          1. a question*

            How interesting! I’d love to hear more about this. I posted a few weeks ago. While I love my company and view it as my forever company (I work in finance)… if I ever had to switch jobs I think I would go into fundraising.

            1. WantonSeedStitch*

              Finance is an excellent background for prospect research, as one of the things we do is to evaluate a person’s giving capacity/wealth. Being able to read SEC filings or know how VC compensation works, for example, is extremely helpful. The Wikipedia article on it has a decent overview, and also some good links to check out.

      3. Calliope*

        Yeah, Lexus can do this as can Westlaw if you have someone who knows how to use them. Both are expensive.

        1. Berlin Berlin*

          If someone in the poster’s family is currently a student (even if not a law student) they may be able to access Westlaw through their university library

    2. Anonymous in case my cousins are reading this*

      At first I thought you might be one of my cousins! But one of my sibs works for the federal courts and knows how to find that stuff, so we usually get that kind of info…

      I’d say to contact a reference librarian, and if you can contact one at a large university that’s even better. Check out your state’s university system, pick one of the institutions, then go to the library website. Many will have an online chat / ask a librarian tool that you can access. They can point you in the right direction.

      2. a question*

        Anonymous – our group always takes “honorary cousins”. I will try the local librarian as a start. I “live” in a library so I’m surprised it didn’t occur to me to check with reference. Thanks.

    3. pancakes*

      Have you tried Google Scholar? I’ll link to it in a separate reply.

      If you are looking for state court decisions, most if not all state court websites will have a search function, but these really vary in quality.

    4. RecoveringSWO*

      If your younger cousins are in college, it would be worth having them ask their university librarian. They might have access to paid resources that can be easier to navigate (westlaw, nexis, etc).

      If you’re looking for info regarding cases that are being petitioned for the Supreme Court, SCOTUSBLOG has a great round up of filing information on every case page that it puts out.

    5. Midwestern Scientist*

      Not in laymens terms, but in the US most (all?, not sure) states have their own case management system that you can search (usually by case number, litigant name, year filed, etc). Can usually be found on the state’s courts.gov type page

      1. Kesnit*

        I came here to say this.
        Appeals courts in my state have Web pages where you can search for the case and find the status. The decisions aren’t available, but you can see the status and outcome.

    6. Nell*

      I’m not a lawyer, but my work requires looking them up sometimes- mostly criminal ones. For US cases, I recommend PACER (Public Access to Court Electronic Records), though it only applies to federal cases. It’s run by the US federal courts. There are also US State attorney offices that track what goes through their offices (which is again, federal cases even though it doesn’t sound like it). The DC one is fairly relevant right now, though that might not be good for family discussions. Basically any court you see mentioned in a news article for the case (ex: X Company is being sued by Y company in Z city) should have its own records. However, they might not be online. You can also check out states’ attorney generals’ offices for resources. This one is actually for each of the fifty states.

      Lawfare Blog covers a number of US and international cases that don’t get much depth in coverage by the media. It’s run by law experts, so they also talk about some of the legal reasoning behind the case. Your milage may vary, as it’s run by Brookings, a liberal think tank in DC, but people I know use it regardless of political ideology.

      The Hague Court, run by the UN (best known for trying war crime cases) also has a relatively easy website to use (for the UN, it’s amazingly intuitive- this is not a high bar).

      Are there any countries in particular y’all would like to know more about?

    7. New Lawyer*

      Also, be aware that appeals can be dropped. Like the article may say that “we’re waiting to hear about an appeal,” but it’s not uncommon for one or both of the parties to decide an appeal isn’t worth the time or expense and just accept the lower court’s decision. You wouldn’t hear an update about that because it’s not really newsworthy.

    8. Clisby*

      If you can tell which court an issue is in, you might be able to get more information by logging into its website. This is just a local example, but I live in Charleston, SC. The county court system has a lot of information online, so I can see who’s been sued, what documents have been filed, whether something’s been appealed and where, … If it’s a criminal case, and there’s an indication it might be appealed, I can check the websites for the state Appeals Court and the state Supreme Court. Somebody below mentioned scotusblog.com, which is great for figuring out what’s going on at the US Supreme Court.

    9. LadyByTheLake*

      I am a lawyer — the gold standard is Lexis or Westlaw, but they are very expensive and sometimes require specialized knowledge to use effectively. As pointed out by others, cases can be settled before an appeal is completed, and sometimes when a case is appealed, the lower court decision is affirmed with only one sentence — there’s no published opinion. I agree that if you know the court where the appeal was being decided, you can often go to that specific court site and many of them have public databases. If the case is of particular public interest (which it must be if you are talking about it), bloggers or commentators that are following the case can be the best resource. For public interest cases @Popehat @Questauthority and @akivacohen on Twitter are all excellent resources (and funny)

  6. Golden*

    Happy Match Day to medical students! I’m not nor have ever been a medical student, but every year I see a handful of LinkedIn and reddit posts by people who didn’t match, or are disappointed with their match. For those that don’t know (from my understanding as an outsider so please correct me if I’m wrong!) Match Day is when medical students find out if and where they received a resident or fellowship position to continue their medical training.

    I read that last year and this year were especially brutal – has that been your experience? What causes someone not to match, and what do the schools do about it, especially if there’s quite a few? Is there much you can do career-wise with an MD/DO but without training as a resident or fellow?

    1. Doctor is In*

      MD here from many moons ago. We all met up in an auditorium to get letters way back when. Those who had not matched were notified in advance, and the administrators started making phone calls to try to find them a place that had unfilled spots.
      A niece recently graduated, and they all found out at the same time via email. The student ranks the programs they want in order of preference, and the programs rank students in their order of preference, so the student gets the program they ranked highest that wanted them. It is an anxiety producing time!

      1. Artemesia*

        so exactly like sorority rush? My niece and her husband both matched at the same place — I wonder if they have a procedure for two moving together like that or they were just lucky.

        1. ErgoBun*

          Couple matching is something that some residency programs have available as a built-in feature if the students ask for it. It’s such a common thing that programs have worked it in to their processes so they can attract the residents they want.

    2. ErgoBun*

      I work for a medical-related organization but am not an MD/DO. Still, I’ve been working in this org during over 20 Match Days so I have a bit of experience!

      When someone doesn’t match it’s because they did not rank any schools on their list which also ranked that student. So they either listed programs that did not feel they were a good fit, or they only listed programs with very limited positions available. Some of the underlying reasons for that can be that there are simply more students trying to match than there are positions available in that specialty’s programs. Also, at least in my organization’s specialty, students research and interview at many, many more programs than they used to, meaning that their limited list and the programs’ limited lists are even more widely varied.

      If a student doesn’t match at all, usually their med school will work on helping them find a program somewhere with available spots. Or they could try another year to match into a different speciality’s program that may have less competition (I don’t know how often this happens).

      It’s definitely a stressful time because this selection process defines the next 3-4 years of your life, your training, and will be the starting block for your medical career. It’s a whole lot!

    3. HannahS*

      Having flashbacks to my match day…ugh what a day. I didn’t do badly (matched to my second choice) but I still had SO MANY FEELINGS. It was kind of awful and overwhelming.

      I can’t speak to this or last year, but there’s an element of randomness to what’s difficult or easy to match to. The year before mine, my specialty had spots left open after both iterations; in my year there were no spots after the first iteration. (The match is actually run twice in Canada; once that everyone hears about and then quietly again about a month later for the unmatched students and any open spots.) Then my specialty returned to its usual competitiveness. There few enough students and spots that if 15 students in the country decide they want to be pediatricians (or whatever) it seriously changes the competitiveness of the specialty.

      I knew many students who went unmatched, for many different reasons:

      One tried for neurosurgery (a competitive specialty); she matched in the second iteration to a remote program.

      One had initially wanted to be orthopedic surgeon, but late in medical switched to wanting psychiatry (so like…the opposite); he went unmatched probably because he didn’t have as much experience in psychiatry compared to the people he was competing against. I believe he matched to family medicine in the second iteration. He may have later transferred into psychiatry.

      One was a student with multiple strikes of unprofessional behaviour in his transcript; he had harrassed and sexually harassed a number of other students (including yours truly) as well as not shown up for entire rotations. He applied to the least competitive specialty and after several years has still not matched. Good riddance.

      Another went to medical school at an American school in the Caribbean and there’s an unfortunate stigma against people who do that. She matched to her desired specialty in the US after three tries.

      It feels terrible not to match. Schools offer a program where they will reach out to unmatched student 24 hours before the match is released to let them know that they didn’t match. This way they are able to offer, frankly, suicide prevention support. After the first match, they work with unmatched students to redo their applications and apply do any open spots for the second match, which are often but not always in Family Medicine.

      To answer your last question, in Canada there is no way for a medical school grad to practice medicine without completing a residency. A generation ago, you could complete an internship year and be considered a General Practitioner but that option was eliminated.

      1. JelloStapler*

        I have to say it is good to hear that the unprofessional student did not get a match.

      2. CupcakeCounter*

        My cousin went through it last year and he said it was way worse than when his sister went through it two year’s prior. 2019 Match was 92% first round match and 2021 was 64% (I believe that is specific to his school).

      3. Nat*

        Thank you for this detailed reply – very interesting stuff to this outsider! What does a med student do if they don’t match while waiting for the next opportunity? Can they do some sort of internship for the year to gain experience? Would they get paid? I imagine the stress of delaying a whole year is immense, with all those student loans weighing you down.

        1. HannahS*

          Typically they either do research or do more rotations in their desired specialty to build their resume and get strong reference letters (or both.) No pay, though.

    4. anooon*

      Happy Match Day! I was just watching the live stream of ours. Our match rate is 97-100% so I can’t quite speak to how that would be routinely handled aside from what Doctor is In said. I’ve known of two students who chose to go into research but they were on MD-PhD track. Prior to the pandemic, I wouldn’t have thought med school could get much more brutal for our students but our curriculum introduces students to patient care earlier than the norm and they didn’t get their full experience. Between that and having virtual/hybrid education, graduations, and Match ceremonies for the past two years, it’s been inspiring and heartbreaking to watch them.

    5. Art3mis*

      A friend of mine is an administrative assistant at a med school. She says match day is the WORST because now all the prima donnas are emotional too. (her words) But she posted earlier this week that yeah, they find out ahead of time if someone didn’t match and reach out to them, try to find them something else, or at the very least, so that they aren’t there when everyone else is finding out and celebrating and they aren’t. I think you can be a MD/DO without a residency, but you wouldn’t be “board certified” which can be an obstacle.

      1. Lady Danbury*

        That seems uncharitable. Finding out that you haven’t obtained something that you’ve spent years of your life and potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars working towards is the epitome of emotional high stakes.

      2. Lina*

        Yes, a friend of mine graduated from medical school but did not match for residency. He is still entitled to the MD and title “doctor”, and he’s worked in a variety of settings where medical expertise is valuable but you are not seeing patients, e.g. medical insurance prior authorizations.

    6. Nightengale*

      I didn’t match (2007), got put into this thing called “the scramble” where you spend a day calling/being called by the programs with open spots and beg, basically. To make matters better, the computer system we all needed to send each other stuff went down the day of the scramble. Finally I talked to a program director who, in the pleasantry of “how are you” told me “not great, I got pulled out of [patient care activity] this morning to find out I had 2 unmatched spots.” And the next week was flying out to a state I had never been before to meet people and try to pull together the next 3 years of my life.

      I think I didn’t match because I had a number of disability related challenges in medical school that were not well accommodated, and which were reflected on my transcript and letters of reference. Partly my grades were affected, and partly my tendency to advocate for myself was not taken well by the school. To add to this, I went to residency interviews with a visible disability. Which several programs asked me about.

      You know how generally it isn’t recommended to discuss disability/accommodations until after you get the job offer? The Match system doesn’t work like that. You interview at a bunch of places and then you get, at most, one offer, which you have to accept. There is no “discuss after the offer” option. I don’t necessarily have a better idea how to get medical students to residency programs but I am very worried about the ableism in The Match. Now I work in a field where my disabilities largely either don’t matter or are a benefit as I work with kids with similar disabilities. . .

  7. NoLongerCollegeSenior*

    This may be very specific and of course there are a lot of factors that go into it, but for anyone in the northeast USA in the finance/accounting sector, how much of a pay increase is normal when moving to a new job? I am at my first job out of school and making in the low 60,000s. Would a 10k, 15k, or even 20k increase be possible at the next job? Thank you all for your advice.

    2. 867-5309*

      I’m not directly in your field but many of the financial companies in the Northeast are starting salaries at $100k to get candidates. There were several articles on it earlier this week or last, so maybe those would be a helpful reference.

    3. Jean*

      Have you looked at job postings in your area to get an idea of salaries in your desired field? I’m not sure AAM is the best place to find this type of info.

    4. Littorally*

      $10k I would consider a minimum, $15k seems like a solid bump, and $20k is likely to be a pretty big promotion in responsibilities/work level. It also depends what area of finance you’re in — if you’re a relationship manager or financial advisor, for example, I’d consider a $20k bump more achievable, whereas if you’re in an ops or controls area (I’m in controls), it’s a bigger jump at your current salary level.

    5. Elsa*

      Most places these days are not going to ask for a salary history. So, I would look more at sites like Glassdoor to see if a position you want is market rate or higher. I have had parallel moves that essentially paid the same and promotions that were a 40-50% pay increase. You should get paid fairly for the job you are doing, not in comparison to previous jobs.

    6. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      I’m in the midwest and have worked in accounting/finance (or related) for my whole career. Average for new grads in finance and accounting is 62-65k here. With a year or two experience, I’d think you could get a 10-15k increase.

    7. Alldogsarepuppies*

      I asked my boyfriend who is a finance/accounting recruiter in the north east. He said “In this market, hell yeah. I’ve gotten people from 60s to 80s”

    8. CorpFin*

      I’m 6 years in finance/accounting within a fortune 500, but not in the northeast. I started entry level at about 60k, was promoted with 10% increase after first year, but two later promotions were ~25%. In this market and coming from a lower entry salary, 10-20k sounds pretty reasonable.

    9. Chauncy Gardener*

      How long have you been at your job? What kind of job is it? If you are a Financial Analyst, my answer will be different than if you are an A/P Clerk.
      Have your responsibilities grown while you have been there?

    10. CupcakeCounter*

      In general, yes. Region, role, and years experience will make an impact (i.e. if you are moving from Boston proper to a more rural area you might have a pay cut in line with COL since starting salary is going to be higher in larger cities vs suburban areas) but overall you should be able to anticipate and negotiate for at least $10k as long as you aren’t moving every 1-2 years.

      I’m in the Midwest, accountant with a BBA with an emphasis in accounting, no advance degree or CPA/CMA.
      Promotions within the same job are usually significantly lower (current +X% with X usually capped by internal BS), but every one of my new company job changes has come with a minimum $10k increase.
      You first move might be right around $10k as long as you are between 2-5 years out from graduation, but once you get past the 7-year experience mark, you can get into the larger jumps as you are generally brought in as a Senior.

    11. Chaordic One*

      I’ve always heard that, as a rule of thumb, anytime you were changing jobs you should get at least a 10% raise. Of course if you are underpaid and deserve more ask for it and look at the advice Alison has offered on this site and in her book.

    12. Orange You Glad*

      It varies a lot among jobs, companies, industries, and locations. It’s possible, but hard to say without specifics.

  8. Golden*

    Happy Match Day to medical students! I’m not nor have ever been a medical student, but every year this day I see a handful of LinkedIn posts by people who didn’t match, or are disappointed with their match. For those that don’t know (from my understanding as an outsider so please correct me if I’m wrong!) Match Day is when medical students find out if and where they received a resident or fellowship position to continue their medical training.

    I read that last year and this year were especially brutal – has that been your experience? What causes someone not to match, and what do the schools do about it, especially if there’s quite a few? Is there much you can do career-wise with an MD/DO but without training as a resident or fellow?

    1. MB*

      If you don’t match, you can often still find residency placement through a program that pairs unmatched applicants with residency programs that have unfilled spots. And you can apply again the following year.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Research. They can go into medical fields that don’t have patient interactions. But yes, it’s very devastating to not match.

      There is a secondary match system, or they can join the military (although they usually do that at the beginning of their med school) and be commissioned as an officer.

    3. Jay*

      I typed out a long response which posted as its own thing because I apparently flunked nesting. It is a really awful process.

    4. Definitely Not a Med Student*

      My understanding is that they know if they matched at the beginning of the week but it’s not until today that they find out the where. So people already know if they didn’t and were able to apply for those unfilled spots.

      1. Elsa*

        Yes, a lot of scrambling has happened between schools, students and residency programs this week!

    5. Dr. Anonymous*

      Part of the change is that interviews were virtual so people could apply to a lot more programs. Some of the reasons for not matching are: getting your heart set on a competitive specialty; not applying to enough programs; being unrealistic about your likelihood of matching and not applying to less popular specialties in less popular communities.

  9. NOT a llama wrangler*

    This may have come up before – sorry I don’t read every week- but I have always been curious…

    does anyone here have a job that actually works directly with the care/grooming of llamas (any zoologists out there?) or does anyone actually take part in the design/painting process for teapots?

    1. midwest mom*

      Ha, I love this question! I wasn’t a llama groomer myself, but I did work at a large zoo for five years where some of my coworkers were literally llama groomers (and llama feeders, trainers, etc – plus worked with a number of other farm animals.)

    2. Hotdog not dog*

      I don’t, but there is a woman in my town who has an alpaca farm. In addition to agrotourism, she sells alpaca fiber-related items. She does in fact have employees who groom and care for the alpacas!

      1. Coenobita*

        One of my high school friends lived on an alpaca farm! My mom and I would frequently “stop by to say hi” to him/his parents but really it was just an excuse to pet their alpacas.

        Also, where I live now, there is actually someone who will bring alpacas to your house for your birthday or whatever. You sign up online, pay like $40, and alpacas show up at your door at the appointed time. The alpacas are super friendly and apparently really enjoy going for rides, so I guess it’s nice enrichment for them and some easy cash for the farm owner.

        2. londonedit*

          Pre-Covid we got my mum an alpaca day for her birthday at a local alpaca farm. She and her best friend went to the farm and they got to take the alpacas for a walk, feed them and generally hang out with them for a while, and then they had tea and cakes afterwards.

          2. Bucky Barnes*

            I want to do this so much. I’ve just spent the last few minutes googling in my area.

        3. Dark Macadamia*

          There’s a place that does this in my area too! More general “petting farm” type parties where different price points are like, 2 bunnies and a chicken or you can spring for a goat, sheep, and mini horse etc. They specifically advertise “pig n sip” parties where you can play with piglets while drinking wine lol

        4. Momma Bear*

          Someone local to me now offers goat visits. I’ll be honest that I want visiting goats for my birthday…..

        5. noncommital pseudonym*

          My campus brings them in once or twice during finals week, as a de-stress. They also bring in dogs. I’ve thought of training my dog for that – he’s an attention hound, and would LOVE it.

    3. haurane*

      Ooh love this question.
      The psychiatric hospital I was patient at had a couple of Alpacas for (mostly) exposure therapy for OCD patients. I didn’t get to work with them but from what I heard from a co-patient they’re quite friendly and chill animals (once you get over the yuk factor of working with animals)

      1. CatPrance*

        The “yuk factor”??

        Critters are great! Okay, well, pigs are kind of smelly but they can’t help that, and alpacas are really sweet. They’re calm and affectionate, plus all that fluffy hair means they’re so-o-o soft.

    4. the cat's ass*

      I know there a couple of women on You Tube who are sheep/llama/alpaca shearers and groomers. I find the videos very relaxing.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      I love this question! I did just learn about Berserk Llama Syndrome yesterday, and if there ARE llama handlers lurking, I would love to hear more about it.

    6. Animal worker*

      I’m in the zoo field on the animal side of things, have been for 30+ years. I’ve never groomed a llama in my job but have worked places that have them (and/or alpacas) so have gotten to be around them a bit here and there.

    7. This Old House*

      It just occurred to me that somewhere out there is someone who really wants to know what it takes to get into llama grooming, and whose online searches for the topic will lead them to have the best resume of all the entry-level llama groomers but no useful industry information whatsoever.

    8. calonkat*

      Not me, but two friends are professional potters and do make teapots. Mugs and plates (renfest/SCA type) are the mainstay of their income thought.

      1. Retired (but not really)*

        I have an adorable teapot made by the White Wizard, a long time Renfaire artist. He also happens to live about a mile down the street from me.

    9. RabbitRabbit*

      Related, I woke up this morning to find a column on Facebook (from SciBabe) about “berserk llama syndrome” (aka aberrant behavior syndrome) – basically a llama that is too imprinted on humans to the point where they try to become territorial vs humans and may violently attack with little warning. So yeah, that’s a thing.

    10. The Prettiest Curse*

      No llama grooming here, but there was an amusing work/AAM collision for me a few weeks ago. One of the talks on my weekly events list was a scientist who was studying something to do with camelid cells and the poster was a photo of him with a llama (or possibly an alpaca.)

    11. Nonny*

      My partner used to work for a person who was starting her own lifestyle company, including fine China (which turns out is a very difficult industry to get started in!)

      He didn’t literally paint the tea pots, but he designed the patterns that went on them which were then printed as decals and applied to bisque ware, then glazed and fired. I believe the decal application and glazing was done by hand, so there were tea pot painters somewhere in the world!

      I want to know if there are any rice sculptors!

  10. Jade*

    Ok! Going into year three of pandemic, my beautiful couture aspiring closet just fills me with dread. I refuse to wear bras anymore or uncomfortable shoes or anything that digs into my belly. I’m looking for work friendly clothing and shoe brands that prioritize comfort while still looking decently professional. We might have to start going back to the office and I just refuse to be physically uncomfortable again. Nooooo

    1. BalanceofThemis*

      Look at the maternity section in clothing stores. Clothes in that section tend to be made of softer materials. You will also find lots of elastic wristbands. And the styles are very close to regular work clothes.

      I’ve never been pregnant, but have several “maternity” pieces.

        1. Chaordic One*

          I’m glad you’re open to the idea. (I recently made the same suggestion to a friend looking for comfortable clothes and she was horribly insulted.)

      1. I can’t think of a clever name*

        I agree with midwest mom. I love Athleta. I’ve worn their “city pants” to work (when I was in a business casual office) with comfortable flats (Rothy’s) and a sweater. They are so comfortable and cute.

        1. Jean*

          YESSSS. Rothys are a game changer for cute, comfortable, business appropriate flats. I’m obsessed.

          1. Sue*

            I live in Cole Hahn shoes. Look good and feel like tennis shoes. I need good arch support and they are great for that.
            Also, got my daughter some (don’t know what they’re called) Everlane sock boots and she says they’re extremely comfortable and she gets lots of compliments, even random on the street ones.

          2. Everything Bagel*

            Wow, I’ve never heard of this brand, but they look like a good choice. Can anyone say if any of the Styles would accommodate an orthotic? I’d like to put these on my list for next time I’m need of new work shoes.

      2. Reba*

        Agree, I think the non-athletic clothes at Athleta are underrated!

        I feel like I’m seeing a lot of styles out there of trousers in “work” fabrics but with stretch waistbands. The formal jogger if you will.

      3. Alexandra*

        I own multiple colors in one of their jumpsuits and regularly wear it to the office with a blazer. It looks best on me with heels but you can get around that. Soft waist, stretchy but professional, great pockets. Bonus: they make true tall sizes. Seriously, so hard to come by. I believe they also are adding sizes to better match the plus size market as well, although I’m not sure if it’s for all the clothes yet. They never #%^# have good sales though

      4. Bucky Barnes*

        Thanks for this tip! I’m going to check them out on a break. I also have worn Duluth’s Noga pants and/or Namastash pants.

    3. TwistedLion*

      Betabrand makes yoga dress pants and they are all stretchy, look nice and feel great. I will say they are pricy but the material is thick so I feel like its an investment. I live in them now. I will say Im 5’4 and the short petite is the right size for my height.

      2. SansaStark*

        Thirding! Keep an eye out for their sales. I’ve gotten two pairs at 50% off which makes them a little more affordable.

    4. Nea*

      I’m always going to recommend Eshakti(dot com) for anyone interested in comfortable, flattering party or professional dresses. Pay the surcharge to give them your measurements and they will tailor exactly for you as you are – in addition to adjusting hemlines, necklines, and sleeve length for free.

      I also recommend going to eshakti for one classic dress as one’s “interview suit” if you’re not the pantsuit type. Throw a jacket over a classic dress – mine is a black v-neck with elbow sleeves ending just below the knee – and you look professional and polished.

        1. AcademiaAnonymous*

          Thank you for the typo! I had a great time envisioning elbow sleeves going all the way down to someone’s knees! My first laugh of the day :-)

        2. Just Your Everyday Crone*

          Thanks for the clarification so we didn’t all have to try to figure out where your elbows were :)

      2. calonkat*

        I love this company. The vast majority of the clothes I’ve gotten fit well, are well made, the fabric is holding up, and they are comfortable. The ones that haven’t fit well have been my fault for ordering the wrong size, or not realizing how deep a neckline would be on my “tracts of land”.

        Pockets on most things that are a useable size!

        They make a pair of pants with a wide elastic waistband that is hands down the most comfortable work pants I’ve ever owned. And I’ve gotten compliments on how they look!

      4. just another bureaucrat*

        YUP. This is my entire wardrobe at this point. It’s just so much easier for me. I’m really tall and not super comfortable with shorter or tighter wear so this lets me pick things that are long enough for me and don’t end up being too short for the office because I’m 6 inches taller than the “tall” expects you to be. It’s so comfortable as well.

      5. Katie*

        My favorite site to buy dresses! Wearing one from there now.
        I love maxi dresses in general. Both comfortable and professional looking.

    5. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

      Girl, I feel you! I have found Rothy’s to be very comfortable, and being able to throw the shoes and the insoles into the washing machine as needed means they look good and don’t get stinky. They’re spendy compared to Payless, but I’ve been picking a pair or two up here and there and just using pay in four, and now I’ve got some good neutral comfy flats and a few pairs in “pop” colors. The round toe is comfier than the pointed toe. I also got some cute Chelsea boots from them during a sale.

      As far as clothes go, I’ve had a big shift to office appropriate knitwear–nice ponte knit pencil skirts, pull on dresses, and flared knit skirts with elastic waistbands that fit at the natural waist. I also have some great flared skater dresses in what I can only term as “office appropriate thick spandex” that I pair with cardigans, and some pretty awesome spandex-y wrap dresses that are very office-y but are also secret pajamas. Embrace knits and stretch fabric! As long as it isn’t too thin or super tight it can look really great at the office but still be really comfortable.

      1. I WORKED on a Hellmouth*

        Oh, I’ve had a lot of luck trolling the Elhoffer site for their daily special sale piece and picking up some of their Essential dresses and skirts when they go on sale–I get a LOT of compliments on those at work, and they’re easily the most comfortable things I own.

      2. Jay*

        Agree with knitwear. Loft has a lot of this kind of thing and they have good sales. I love their “floaty” dresses – cute and comfy and work well with leggings and boots. I have a pair of black pants from J Jill that look very office-y and feel like PJs.

      3. CTT*

        A note on the Rothy’s: if you try them and they feel a little tight, they will NOT break in over time. They are extremely unyielding shoes (which is why I ended up buying their tote bag – unyielding is not a quality I want in my shoes but is one that I want in my purses!)

        1. ThatGirl*

          (Same goes for Allbirds; I am between a 9 and 9 1/2 and should have sized up for those, but I thought they might stretch out a bit as I wore them. Not really.)

        3. BlueSwimmer*

          Also a Rothy’s fan here. The round toe flats fit true to size for me but size up for the pointe flats. I love my round toe flats but know that they aren’t a supportive shoe if that’s what you are looking for.

    6. OtterB*

      I go for elastic waistbands too. I’m in plus-size clothing so I don’t know what’s available in general, but I like Lands End sport knit pattern pants. The solid seem more casual, though I do wear them to work, but the patterns are things like pin stripes, glen plaid, etc. Very comfortable and look nice with a solid top and a cardigan or blazer.

      I also like Ulla Popken, especially the matte knit. Pants in a couple of styles are either black or navy, and then there are a variety of tunic tops in different prints. Comfortable and professional looking.

      I can’t help with shoes. I have foot problems that mean I’ve thrown in the towel and am almost 100% wearing Brooks sneakers with custom orthotics. My nod to business wear was getting a pair of solid black Brooks Adrenaline.

    7. Alice*

      I’ve started forgoing the bra when I go out and the world is still turning. Amazing, I should have done this years ago. I still don’t feel comfortable going into the office bra-less, but I’ve discovered that sports bras are much, much more comfortable and I have smaller boobs so there’s hardly any outward difference (but a big difference in comfort). Of course it depends, but I’m putting this here since for me it was a revelation that I could wear sport bras for non sport activities.

      2. Anonymous Koala*

        I’ve been skipping the bra everywhere too, but my office sometimes requires fancy clothes where sports bras are noticeable. One thing I did recently was go to a fancy bra shop and get properly fitted for a bra – not just sizing but styles, strap hooks, etc. It’s not something I would normally have spent so much on, but it has made a world of difference to my comfort and confidence in work clothes.

      3. AnonPi*

        Yup I went to sports bras w/ no underwire and I will never go back to wearing any bra with a wire!

        1. AnonPi*

          Although i do wish more sports bras were available in skin tone or white colors. When I’m just out and about I don’t really care who can see I have a black bra on under my shirt, but at work I prefer it not to be noticeable and end up wearing tank tops or camis underneath.

      4. AlabamaAnonymous*

        I haven’t worn a bra since March 2020! I didn’t worry about it all when my job was all WFH. Now that I’m back in the office 3 days a week, I bought several camis with built in shelf bras and just wear those. That’s enough to prevent serious jiggle. And I usually wear at least two layers on top of the cami (shirt and cardigan) so I’m well covered up. I do still own one bra, in case of emergency.

      5. Jessica Ganschen*

        Same here! I bought a couple multi-packs of black, white, and beige bralettes at the beginning of the pandemic, and they’re spectacular. They don’t actively restrain quite as much as a sports bra would, but that’s generally not relevant in the office anyway.

      6. Orange You Glad*

        I recommend the Truekind Daily Comfort Wireless bra. It was a game-changer. It feels like a sports bra but supports like a regular bra. I’ve bought that brand’s sports bras in the past but I like the daily comfort one better and just use it for everything – active or not.

      7. Lady Danbury*

        I bought an entire wardrobe of wirefree comfort bras. My favs are warners easy does it bra, hanes t-shirt wireless bra, bali desire lace wirefree bra and hanes comfortflex wirefree bra. Such a gamechanger!

      8. Dragon*

        Or try Sassybax bras. They’re not cheap, but they’re sports bra-styled and smooth out back bulge.

    8. Anon (and on and on)*

      I’ve found that my regular business casual brands of Ann Taylor and Banana Republic have adapted to the post-pandemic style of being more comfortable! The trick is to look for pants and skirts with elastic waistbands, pull-on tops in stretchy styles (NO button-ups for me, please) and flats, flats, flats for days! I’m still wearing bras but only ones without underwires and have been getting more bralettes than structured cups. For bras, I go to a great boutique and have them fit me and invest in 2-3 good ones that I hand wash, and it’s worth the money over crappy ill-fitting ones. There are a lot more comfortable options floating around now vs. pre-pandemic!

      1. RSTchick*

        I recently bought some tops/dresses from Ann Taylor, and they are very comfy. I was pleasantly surprised.

    9. Kes*

      I’ve personally always gone for ankle boots over heels and clothing with some stretch in it where possible. I’ve also heard about a number of more comfortable flats brands like Sketchers and Rothys but I haven’t tried them myself. Admittedly my office is on the more casual side which makes this easier

    10. InsufficientlySubordinate*

      I get Duluth’s NoGa black pants with the looser fit legs and find they can pass as regular pants if you wear longer shirts or jackets.

    11. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

      I love Wit and Wisdom for business casual, they have a stretchy waste band. Also consider Stitch Fix to find new brands. I have had good luck with them.

    12. Damn it, Hardison!*

      J Crew Factory has a three types of pants that have soft waistbands – the Holland pant, the Jamie pant. and the Pintuck Sweatpants, which are more like ponte knit than sweatpants and would be fine for casual offices.

    13. The Ginger Ginger*

      I’ve opted out of underwires pretty much forever at this point. And I am a very busty person, so it’s doable. There are some REALLY nice wire free bras out there at this point. Depending on your bodytype, bra-lettes are also an option. Those are home-wear only for me, but they would definitely work for someone with less going on up there than I have lol.

      As I plus size person, I use lane bryant for my bras (i’d love more options tbh, if anyone has any), but a quick google for wireless or wire-free bras should get you a ton of options.

      1. Alexandra*

        Ooooh as someone who wishes to opt out of wires but has a small ribcage to big chest ratio, I’m interested in your brand options! Where have you been having success? I feel like I either wear my one, perfect, discontinues bravissimo brand t-shirt bra, or a series of freya ones that start out fine and end the day pinchy

        1. Chirpy*

          I almost exclusively wear Glamorize bras – they have a sports bra that looks nice enough to be an “everyday bra” without wires. Great for large cup/small band size. I can’t remember what the actual bra style is called, but T9 Sports used to sell it as the “Hallelujah Bra” (I get them elsewhere now because I found a cheaper place with more sizes).

      2. onyxzinnia*

        I always thought wire-free bras would never be an option for me as I am also very busty but I recently got the Jacqueline non-wired bra by Fantasie and it’s been a game changer. Cute and holds everything together. Bravissimo has been the best for bras for larger cup sizes, they seem to have a number of wire free bra options.

    14. Admin of Sys*

      I’m fond of Chico’s travelers brand stuff – I started wearing it for, well, travel – because it wont wrinkle – but i also just find it comfy.

    16. Just Your Everyday Crone*

      My work uniform was mainly Loft or Ann Taylor slacks (because they had curvy cuts which fit me better) in soft materials with a little stretch, a shell and a sweater or jacket or sweater-jacket. I wore a lot of loafer-style sneakers or flats with good cushioning –there are some brands that aim for comfort, you can just search “comfort” on Zappos and get a sense. Clark’s Cloudsteppers comes to mind, or Sofft.

    17. History Chick*

      I am on a mission to find a comfortable bra and I have tried the following so far in case my research is helpful for you! I want something lightly padded, with adjustable straps, and is kind of sports bra-y feeling without the racerback. I am a 32C in case that helps in the level of support needed:

      Here are my top 3 that I’ve tried:
      -Newai Barely Zero Spaghetti Strap Wireless
      -True&Company Everybody Lift Wireless @ Target
      -Aerie Seamless Padded Bralette

      Here are others I’ve tried:
      -Nordstrom Bonded Wireless Bralette (would be a fav but there is a really itchy seam)
      -Jockey Eco Seamfree Rib Molded Cup (not terrible, but I want to take it off at the end of the day)
      -Wearlively Bralette the stripe mesh (I think I’m just over clasp enclosures in the back)
      -Uniqlo Airism Relaxed Wireless Bra (doesn’t have adjustable straps so it doesn’t work for me plus even though it’s “Airism” it makes my boobs sweat)
      -Kinx Padded V Neck Bra (the sizing was just off – I tried 3 sizes – for me but the customer service @ Knix is top rate!)
      -Natori Limitless Anywhere Wirefree Bra (I thought this would be the one but it is by far the least uncomfortable)

      May the fortune that I’ve spent on finding a comfortable bra be of assistance to you! (And I also recommend Athleta. I’ve convinced myself that some of the joggers I own will be okay if paired with the correct top and comfortable flats)

      1. pancakes*

        Cora Harrington (@ lingerieaddict on Twitter and @ dot com) makes bra recommendations. I’ll definitely browse her site next time I’m shopping for new ones.

      4. Person from the Resume*

        I just found the Simply Perfect by Warner’s longline convertable wire-free at Target to be a perfect fit for me. I hate wire bras and the fact that as I gained weight and increased bras size it is so hard to find non-wired bras, but this one has a comfortable but sturdy band.

        Target is a good place to try. Changing rooms at Target has been closed so I purchased 4 bras, returned 3 and then purchased 3 bras and returned 2. I came out with 1 work bra and 1 only around the house comfy bra from True&Company.

    18. Susie*

      Universal Standard
      Ministry of Supply

      shoes:
      Rothys, especially the Merino. I find them very comfortable. But if you need it, you can remove the insole and replace it with something more supportive.

      My workplace is on the casual side of things and my uniform is an A-line jersey dress, leggings, and Rothy’s. I just got a couple of pairs of trousers from Universal Supply that I’m looking forward to incorporating to switch things up a little.

    19. LC*

      For shoes, I like Nisolo, Blondo, and Dankso. They’re all somewhere between fairly to extremely comfortable and fairly to extremely pretty and/or professional. Not, like, courtroom professional, but plenty professional for most offices.

      Nisolo are the nicest looking (the Huarache sandal and the Everyday sneaker are my faves, along with an Oxford style that I don’t see on the website anymore) and Dansko are the most comfortable, but they’re all definitely in the same spectrum. Some (all?) of Blondo shoes are waterproof too, their ankle boots were a godsend when I walked to work (PNW so often fairly wet, rarely enough to make rainboots and a second pair of shoes worth it).

      I also second the recommendation for knitwear, and I’m making note of the other recommendations for when they start requiring us (sigh) to come in a couple times a week.

    20. Metadata minion*

      If you like dresses, knit dresses can look very fancy while still being structurally a couple tailoring tucks away from a nightgown.

    21. Emma*

      I have several pants from Universal Standard which are very comfortable and work appropriate. Brand is just a bit spendy but totally worth it imo and they offer a massive size range (00-40).

      For shoes I alternate between a pair of Sofft loafers and Clark’s ankle boots, both extremely basic but comfortable enough to wear all day and do a medium amount of walking (especially the boots).

      1. Emma*

        Oh and bras! I bought 3 from Cuup of the Scoop style, which is underwire but very comfortable and without padding, so I almost forget I’m wearing them but they offer just enough support/coverage for the office. With a really thin shirt there’s sometimes a hint of nip but I either wear a different bra or just say f it ‍♀️

    22. The Lion's Roar*

      MIA’s Kerri flats are the most comfortable shoes I’ve ever worn to the office. I was worried about breaking my feet back into the rub and pinch of professional shoes again after two years and these were a godsend. Unfortunately my feet are on the larger side (I’m normally a 10, in these I’m an 11) and it’s proven difficult to find them that big online, but I’ve been keeping my eyes peeled.

    23. StellaBella*

      I just ordered from Zalando (not sure they are in your area?) 3 work dresses from Vero Moda that are cotton jersey, black, and pullover style, like literally a nicer long t shirt. I love them. Also, I wear a lot of leggings and long sweaters. In summer I will wear more dresses that are simple and flowy. Agree on comfort. Also agree on shoes etc. Good luck.

    24. 1qtkat*

      Comfort has always been central to my wardrobe. Athleta’s Santorini dresses are a staple for me – stretchy and comfortable. I also like Banana Republic and haunting the sales at White House Black Market (can be hit or miss sometimes, but I can usually find some nice individual items)

    25. Person from the Resume*

      Clarks flats shoes are great with jeans or work pants. Cute and comfortable.

      They almost make me wish that due to temperature, I don’t wear shorts 9 months out of the year. Not to work; I now WFH. But we have 6 months of a burning hot and humid summer around here.

    26. Workerbee*

      Yes! I stopped wearing bras for several years before the pandemic, and I also can no longer bear anything that fits too closely to my abdomen/belly for health reasons. Additionally, my footwear has less than 1″ heels (I may still have one or two that is 1″, but I have been scuffing around with no shoes for so long with WFH that I get as flat as I can with shoes these days).
      Add on that I am finding the more synthetic materials make my skin feel creepy, and this has reduced my wardrobe some for when I have to drag myself into my business-professional workplace.

      I’ve found that many brands and styles structure their tops with the assumption that you’ll be wearing a bra, and that depending on the weather or indoor temperature, one can’t always rely on a sweater, sleeved cardigan, or blazer, or do much with layers. With pants, I want to stick as close to my comfy yoga pants as possible.

      The world still being what it is where breast-shaped breasts with *gasp* nipples are looked on with fear and cupidity, I opt for some measure of camouflage/concealment while aiming for ultimate comfort:
      -Tops that are sometimes called “popover” tops, where you have a stretchy cami as the bottom layer and a floaty, often handkerchief-shaped layer on top.
      -Button-downs with patterns instead of solid colors work, though black can work, too. It depends on the fit.
      -I also have a couple long-line sleeveless cardigans that act as vests. These work even with short-sleeve shirts.
      -Pants: Athleta, Lands’ End, Talbots all make pants, whether new or ‘vintage’ if you go on Poshmark/eBay, that masquerade as office appropriate pants. I go for bootcut/straight-leg generally, so they look less like athletic wear, though I have also worn thick fleece leggings under dresses with boots. White House Black Market also has/had a ponte style of pants, complete with zip, button-closure, and belt loops, that somehow does not impinge on my skin at all. I will never let them go, probably.
      -Skirts: Lot of trial and error here as I discovered even the so-called elastic stretchy waistbands can be too snappishly tight on me. My solution was to go up from my normal size just so the waistband would rest comfortably.
      -Footwear: I search by heel size (and width) on Zappos, and occasionally on Auditions Shoes, to find flat/flattish boots and ankle boots. I wear either with skirts and dresses in winter. In less inclement weather, I have sandals and Mary Jane styles.

      The list may sound formidable but once you start honing what you’re looking for, it gets easier both to discard and to find options.

    27. Laura H.*

      JBU makes a “Crimson” shoe that zips closed and is comfy that I wear for my retail gig or when I want to look a bit nicer.

      Also- loose tops that layer well and elastic waistband skirts are my faves.

  11. KatRaven*

    About two weeks ago, I applied for a summer job. The online application asked for specific availability, which I filled in to the best of my present knowledge. This week, I have learned that my summer class schedule will change, so I can actually work more days than I initially indicated, which I would imagine would help me increase my chances to be called for an interview.

    The problem is that I don’t know how to let the potential employer know about my change in schedule. They specifically ask for no phone calls, and as the application was online, I don’t have an email or a particular individual to contact. Should I submit a second application indicating that it is the second because the hours have changed, just let it go and hope they call anyway so I can tell them that I have more availability, or is there another option that I may be overlooking? Thank you for any advice!

    1. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      Wait until they reach out to you, and mention you have more availability if you get an interview.

    2. Jade*

      I say it depends on how much more availability you have than when you submitted. If it’s just a day or two I really wouldn’t sweat it.

      If it’s more than that, I think you could probably call. NOT for an annoying “did you get my application” thing, but just to say you wanted to update your availability.

      1. Observer*

        Yes, this is one of the few situation where a follow up call makes sense. Because you do have a genuine change that is reasonable to communicate.

        1. RecoveringSWO*

          I agree. Every summer job I’ve had prioritized availability. I would call to update the schedule. If this job has a physical location and the application system is run by corporate headquarters, I would find the number for the location and call them specifically.

  12. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

    Hi!

    I had an interview yesterday for a research analyst position (at a law firm), and am moving onto the next round!

    Which means they’ll send me an email for a zoom interview and sample internet research project, which I’m assuming will be fairly quick (they’re not asking me to use specific databases which they know most people don’t have access to)? And if they send it to me over the weekend, hopefully it’s okay if I don’t do it until Monday? I’m trying to set boundaries…

    Anyway, thanks to everyone for the interview tips last week! The interview went great and I wasn’t as nervous, although the recruiter did forget to write down my original time and we had to reschedule, so that wasn’t great (I really hate doing interviews). It really helped that at the beginning of the call the recruiter was like “and we’re going to talk about this and this and then this.”

    I don’t know what questions to ask them for round two, which will be a zoom call with the hiring manager. But I did a lot of prep work for this, which I’m assuming will come in handy for the next round (the first round was me talking about my jobs and her telling me more specifics about the position).

    Even if I don’t get this position, and I’m really trying not to get my hopes up because this would be perfect location and job wise, just having, like, concrete proof in getting this interview that this might be a career option for me is doing wonders for my mental health. :’) for so long I thought I didn’t have any options other than libraries, but I am so happy I have some.

    1. Renee Remains the Same*

      I am a research nerd with an MLIS, working at a Library but not a librarian. Very much contemplating how I can land a job looking for things that other people want. Interviews are like blind dates, which have never made me nervous… If they go well, you’re pleasantly surprised and if they don’t, you dodged a bullet. Either way, you win by putting yourself out there. So I wish you much luck and congratulations on getting the interview!

      1. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

        I too have an MLIS and have in the past had job titles with “librarian” in the title, although my job in a library now does not have the title. So, I leaned into the research experience that I have – I leaned in with my cover letter and I plan on leaning in with the next interview. Even though I don’t have access to the databases the company uses, I have experience. I also talked about my customer service experience and how I am easily adaptable.

        I like that analogy re: interviews being like blind dates! I do think with me and interviews, the unknown is what gets me nervous. Like, I know my experience and what I can bring to the table, but I don’t always know what exactly they’re going to ask. Which is probably why the phone interview went so well, because right away, she said what we’d be talking about and I wasn’t nervous.

        Wishing you luck, too!

    2. Peachtree*

      I don’t know if it’s just me, but your comment about doing the work on Monday makes me think that you’re planning to complete the hiring task during your current job’s work day. Is that right? I personally wouldn’t do that, as you’re being paid to do the current job, not to spend their time (money) on trying to leave … YMMV.

      In general with tasks, they will usually give you a deadline – and they won’t know/care when you do it before then. Assuming the task/deadline is reasonable (i.e., it’s not suddenly due in 4 hours and the task is a reasonable length for the role) then I would avoid pushing back unless you have an emergency. For example, if you were sent the task on a Thursday, Monday afternoon would be a reasonable turnaround time, and I would be a bit annoyed if I sent someone a task with four days notice and they said “I don’t want to do this at the weekend so I’ll send it late”. If they said “I had a family emergency so I couldn’t complete it” then that would be more understandable.

      1. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

        I would never do a task for another job at a job I’m working at. I don’t currently work full-time (or, more accurately, a 9-5), so I could work on the task after work. Obviously if they give me a specific deadline, I’d honor that and not turn in anything late. I was more asking if they didn’t give me any type of a deadline, but I have to assume they will.

        But I don’t think wanting to keep the weekend work-free is unreasonable. Working at various part-time jobs in my career, I haven’t always had full weekends free, so now that I have most of them available, I do try to keep them relatively relaxing. I know there are going to be exceptions, and I’d cross that bridge when I came to it.

        1. Peachtree*

          I’m sorry, your earlier comment was confusing to me – it sounded like you didn’t want to complete the task in your own time at all, which was a little strange to me. It’s entirely reasonable to want to keep weekends free, but, as above, if they give you a reasonable deadline and it falls after a weekend, they would probably want you to honour the deadline. You’d then need to decide if it was worth it, I guess.

          FWIW, they will almost 100% give you a firm deadline rather than something open-ended, so it’s unlikely to be a real issue.

          1. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

            Sorry, I didn’t mean to be unclear.

            Thank you! I’m assuming, now, that this aspect of my question is a moo point, because they’d probably give a firm deadline. :) I’m not saying I’ll never work an unscheduled weekend again (aka one that I don’t know about well in advance), but I’d like to limit last-minute weekend work if I can. We’ll see if that would be an issue in this position, should I be lucky enough to get an offer (or anything with this title/in this field, if I don’t).

            1. Haha Lala*

              If they don’t give you a firm deadline, you can respond back to let them know you received the sample project, and then set your own deadline “I’ll have it back to you by Monday night.”
              That makes your schedule clear to them, and gives them a chance to let you know if they actually need it returned earlier.

              1. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

                Thank you! Unfortunately I didn’t see this comment before getting the skills and interview invites. The interview is early next week, so I’ll have it done (probably) Sunday or definitely by Monday night. All they said was to have it done prior to the interview, but didn’t get more specific than that.

    3. Madeleine Matilda*

      Alison has several posts here on AAM with suggested interview questions. If you use the blog search feature you will find them and can see which ones make sense for your upcoming interview. I recommend the posts 10 questions you should ask your manager and A great question to ask your interviewer.

      1. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

        Thank you! I’ll for sure use the search feature and look up the posts you suggested. :D

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’m sure some of these come from AMA, others are adapted from other sources, but when I was seriously job hunting a few years ago, these were the questions I still have in my drive folder labeled Questions and I know I asked them a lot:
      What would you describe as the most important goals of this position?
      How will you measure the success of the person in this position?
      What are some of the challenges you’d expect the person in this position to face?
      Thinking back to different people you’ve seen do this work previously here or at other places, what differentiates those who were good from those who were really great at it? (My slightly altered version of the “perfect question.”)
      Can you describe which job duties you would expect to take up the most of this person’s time? (I find this more effective than “typical day” types of questions.)
      What’s your timeline for next steps?
      What are you hoping this person will accomplish in their first year?
      What do you like about working here? (Also: What do you consider the strengths of the organization?)
      What would you consider to be the greatest challenges facing the organization at this time? (And listen to see if anything they have said before seems to point to a plan to solve any of these challenges, because this can be illuminating.)
      (If the position is new, ie: Hasn’t been filled before) In adding this role to the organization, what are you hoping the person in the role will accomplish?

      1. Hopeful Ex Librarian*

        Thanks so much! I obviously can and will go through the search feature and find questions to ask, but I more wanted to hear what worked for people, so I’m glad I got several good ones to ask! :)

  13. Sariel*

    I’m wondering about microaggressions — and looking for thought/opinions. As a manager, I have sought out training on several topics, including learning about microaggressions, allyship at work, etc. With my previous team, we also went through webinars and had discussions together on these types of topics and people on the team felt it was helpful. However, I had a team member who did not work out (had been spoken to several times, met with about improvement, and then ultimately did not make it through their probation period). When this team member left, they were very angry and accused me, my other manager, and the entire team of regularly engaging in microaggressions towards them (although they never said anything about this before . . . apparently to anyone). So now, I am really trying to be aware both of my own actions and those of my new team.

    My question is this: are all comments about appearance or communication style potentially microaggressions? I have a team member who will routinely comment on things like how I dress, the color of my hair when I changed it to a different tone, communication styles of myself and other team members and other things. All in a tone that comes across as disapproving (one of my colleagues mentioned it comes across like “Mom tone” – as in “Is that what you’re wearing ?” – and I think some readers may know what this sounds like). I don’t appreciate the comments, but I don’t know if they constitute microaggressions or just comments that rub people the wrong way. Any thoughts or advice on this?

    1. ecnaseener*

      If the comments are rubbing you the wrong way *because of your lifelong experience as a member of a marginalized group,* then yeah that can be called a microaggression. Can I ask why the label matters so much in this case though? You’re allowed to be peeved by simple rudeness, whether or not there’s subtle bigotry behind it.

        1. Observer*

          I agree with this 100%. In fact, I would say that the OP is not just “allowed”, but if they are a manager, they SHOULD shut it down.

    2. Littorally*

      The line between “annoying comment” and “microaggression” is very fine, and tends to have to do more with how much the trait being remarked upon corresponds to a marginalized identity/status vs the actual content of the comment itself.

      So — potentially microaggressions? Possible. For yourself as the speaker, it’s definitely worth examining those type of comments internally before you say them and asking yourself — does this have to do with someone’s race? Their disability status? Gender? Body type/shape? Nationality? Perceived health? Religion? Something else probably best left well alone?

      But when it comes to this other person who is making comments — well, the goal is to get them to stop, right? I don’t see why you couldn’t just call out the tone directly, without making it an issue of micoaggression versus just being a jerk. If I’m reading correctly, it sounds like this person may be your report? You’ve got plenty of standing to say ‘hey, you need to cut it out with talking to people like that. You’re coming across as very judgmental and disapproving, and it’s not appropriate in a work environment.’

      1. Artemesia*

        This. Shut it down. It doesn’t help to label it racist or sexist; label it ‘inappropriate’ and ‘disapproving tone’ and shut it down.

    3. Observer*

      I think we get a little too hung up on the terminology.

      If something is rude, it doesn’t really matter if it’s a “microaggression” or “just plain rude”. I mean, legally it might, but not in the sense of whether it should be OK. However, anything that is rude DOES have the potential to be a microaggression – and to slide right over into full on aggression. So, it’s a good idea to put a stop to that.

      Which is to say, if you are being rubbed the wrong way by the comments on your clothes because the person making them sounds like they are passing judgement, that needs to stop. Because it’s rude and no one should have to accept rude treatment as a condition of employment. AND it also has the potential to really get you in trouble with people who are going to get “extra” levels of this garbage because it’s extremely likely that those people are also going to be the ones who are in otherwise marginalized groups.

    4. Eldritch Office Worker*

      If the HR perspective is helpful at all – microaggressions are a thing to give trainings on because of the impact they have on marginalized identities and the likelihood non-marginalized identities either aren’t familiar with the concept or aren’t thinking about it as actively as they should. So it’s great that you’re thinking about it.

      However when it comes to *corrective* action – it really doesn’t matter much if it’s a microaggression. Like it matters in the meta sense and it matters if it’s part of a pattern of behavior, but in terms of just telling someone to quit commenting on people’s bodies or mind their tone because they aren’t conveying what they think they are, that’s a thing regardless. It doesn’t have to be a microaggression to be a behavior that should be corrected.

    5. Just Your Everyday Crone*

      I personally think virtually all comments on appearance are inappropriate in the workplace (I’d make an exception for eg saying someone looks sharp for a special event/court appearance type of thing and managers addressing significant dress code issues with a thousand caveats) and people should always err on the side of not. Certainly, random co-worker negative comments on anything appearance-related should be shut down. I think they can also be microaggressions (because women are more likely to have their clothes policed, Black folks more likely to get hair comments, etc) but don’t need to be microaggressions to be shut down.

      1. callmeheavenly*

        We do not have an official dress code, but one of my (white, European-heritage) direct reports has a loose interpretation of business casual that is just…not great, like, short and tight to the point that it’s negatively affecting others’ perception of her professional judgment and more importantly her ability to sit down without flashing someone, or literally looks like she’s cosplaying a cheerleader or a pinup girl. Jeans and hoodies every day would be 100% acceptable, it’s not a formal environment by any means, but…I cannot let her come in looking like Halloween forever. She does not take subtle suggestion or constructive criticism well and will probably holler harassment, but there’s a line between quirky and inappropriate to the workplace.

    6. Manchmal*

      I don’t think that microaggressions are always rude or judgmental in the way that those comments you describe are. Someone could ask in a very chipper voice, “Oh, and where are you from?” but if they do it at the wrong time or in a context that makes the question very othering, I would count that as a microaggression. Even statements that are positive on their face can be microaggressions in certain contexts.

      1. Lady Danbury*

        Absolutely this. As a Black woman, excessive positive comments on my hair definitely feel like microaggressions. In a past job, I almost always wore my natural hair in 2 styles (down and curly or in a bun). One of the rare times I did something different, one of my white coworkers complimented me by saying that I was always doing something different with my hair. Except I wasn’t, it was those same 2 styles the vast majority of the time. It felt very othering.

    7. Policy Wonk*

      I would be surprised if your team member comments on what men are wearing or their communication style, particularly given the reported, disapproving “mom tone”. You need to shut it down.

      Honestly, I disagree with the comments that say it doesn’t matter if it’s microaggression, it’s just rude so shut it down. Yes, if someone is just rude you need to shut them down. But a lot of people are prickly, and we can tell when this is their (rude) personality. I’ve worked with a lot of people like that over the years.

      Microaggression is different and more serious. When the “rude person” only has particular targets it crosses a line – it is even more important to point out the pattern and tell RP that it needs to stop, and if it doesn’t stop they are putting their job in jeopardy. And then document the conversation (and subsequent ones, because there will be more.) People like this are toxic and frequently have allies that will support their little campaigns to undermine those who are different, be they female or BIPOC. Having felt plenty of slights (and worse) over the course of my career, I speak from experience. (What, I didn’t mean any harm! They can’t take a joke! They’re too sensitive!)

      There are times when we say things we didn’t realize were microaggressions, which is why we all need the training you reference, and I would recommend you arrange that for your team. But in the meantime tell “mom” to be professional in the office, and take her disapproving schtick elsewhere.

      1. ecnaseener*

        My understanding of the term microagression is that it’s really only for small, micro-level things – if someone’s deliberately targeting a person and trying to undermine them, that’s full on aggression. Full on bigotry too, if applicable.

    8. sb51*

      Is it possible the team member who didn’t work out phrased it that way *because* you had discussed it and they knew it was something you were trying to avoid? I.e. they didn’t really think the things were microaggressions but were trying to make you feel bad.

      Whether or not the team member making the disapproving-y comments is actually committing any microaggressions, it still sounds like something to say something about.

    9. Dark Macadamia*

      “I don’t know if they constitute microaggressions or just comments that rub people the wrong way.” Microaggressions are specifically about discrimination toward marginalized communities, so that’s the deciding factor on whether something “counts” as one – which doesn’t necessarily change how you would address the behavior.

      “(although they never said anything about this before . . . apparently to anyone).” I don’t know what the issues with the employee were but definitely don’t use this as a reason to question if their complaint was sincere.

    10. Margaretmary*

      I don’t know if they count as microaggressions, but unless the team member is in a position of authority and is correcting people who have broken the dress code, disapproving comments about what people are wearing are definitely rude and inappropriate and not just comments that rub people up the wrong way (and even if they ARE a manager enforcing the dress code, it seems like a pretty passive-aggressive way of doing it: “is that what you’re wearing?” rather than “we don’t allow x”) but there might not be much you can do about that whereas if you are their manager, you could probably speak to them about making personal comments.

  14. OTGW*

    Anyone have experience working in the warehouse? Pros and cons?

    There’s a job that would be pretty nice for me—it’s essentially shelving and retrieving books and materials, so not like crazy UPS heavy lifting or whatever. The pay is :/ but it’s FT so it’s not the worst plus!!! Benefits of which I have exactly zero (0) of. And I’d have a set schedule and steady days off!! Wild!! I currently work 2 PT jobs and I am exhausted. But everyone says warehouses are bad and I feel conflicted.

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      My only warehouse experience was from 20+ years ago. It is my understanding that job tempo and work speed/accuracy pressures have drastically increased in that time. This plus the horror stories one sees in the news can be the source of the “warehouse = bad” vibe. Just… take your brain with you. Be careful and avoid getting sucked into the “push extra hard, take chances, and walk it off” mentality that can become literally toxic.

    2. Terrible as the Dawn*

      My “warehouse” job wasn’t strictly warehouse–it was warehouse/inventory for a big box retail store–but I loved it. I’m a very organized person who used to alphabetize my bookshelves for fun, so I found shipping and receiving to be very peaceful, and I used to LOVE doing inventory reconciliation. I also appreciated being up and moving around and have never minded a bit of lifting and carrying.

      I will also add that having a set schedule is EXCELLENT. If you can afford comfortable, sturdy footwear and are able-bodied, I think you should go for it!

    3. Resident Catholicville, USA*

      I’ve never worked in a warehouse, so I can’t speak to that specifically, but what I can say is that what is a nightmare for one person might not be for another or at a different time in your life. If the benefits/situation are positive over what you’re currently working, then it might work out better for you. If you hear horror stories about that particular warehouse and the conditions, it might not be in your best interest. So, weigh the pros and cons over your current situation, make a back up plan if you do switch and it doesn’t work out, and then go from there.

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      My first job out of college could have been described similarly, but it was not a big company warehouse job. I restocked a small tech company’s product documentation after their move–everything from producing it on the photocopier & stocking the shelves to assembling ship kits. It was a very social environment, and for me a good reset after a very insular academic environment. There’s something very satisfying about receiving a list of concrete tasks and going home at the end of the day knowing you have done them all.

    5. J*

      I worked in a different kind of warehouse, basically one that had equipment out that needed to be programmed and then packages that needed to be stocked that went out with the equipment and all done at regular intervals. Sometimes things were broken and needed to be fixed, we needed to be experts at the equipment, sometimes it was very slow. The worst was the building had weather issues and it might leak/flood/be so hot I got dehydrated because the water area was far away. But most of the time I could wear headphones, work independently and feel like I always had tangible evidence of the work I completed. I kind of loved it but it was a short-term project so I would either have to find another location or only work seasonally and I couldn’t sustain that. I’m fantastic at a desk job but this one was lower stress than I expected. Knowing how the work comes down the pipeline, how its assigned, and what you can bring with you into a warehouse (like if no headphones, I would have hated it) all really help. And if you do decide to go for it, the most stressful part was actually on my body, so I ended up getting really good shoes and eventually carried a water bottle strapped to me.

    6. Chirpy*

      I’d take a full time warehouse job over two part-time jobs, most of the time. My one caveat would be if it was Amazon, they’re known to be terrible. But other places may not be so bad. One of my friends enjoys it because whatever other issues the job has, he doesn’t have to work with the public at all and he likes the schedule.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        Yes, plus benefits. This sounds like a step up from 2 PT jobs.

        One caveat try to discern weight of what you’ll be moving/lifting and figure out if you believe your body can handle it. Books seem reasonably lightweight.

        I think part of the problem with Amazon is the speed they expect their employees to work / no time for breaks. I’d check glassdoor or try to get insight into that as well, but i don;t think warehouse is inherently bad.

    7. Hillary*

      Honestly, I miss my warehouse days (although I almost never picked orders). Time flies because you’re busy, you barely have to talk to anyone, and you can see what you accomplish each day.

      The places that give it a bad rap are the ones like amazon where metrics are pushed above everything else. If you’re worried about that ask about metrics and safety during your interview. It depends on large the company is, but if it’s a big one everyone should be wearing safety shoes. If there are forklifts there should be designated walking paths taped on the floors and everyone should be wearing high vis shirts/vests. Do the shipping stations have fatigue mats? If the facility has been fined for violations it usually shows up in google searches.

      All of that said, UPS is probably actually better. They do a lot to limit heavy packages in their network and they have more equipment for safety. In general big companies have to care about safety more because it’s a numbers game – the more people/transactions the more likely they are to have an accident, which means safety becomes more important.

      1. Hillary*

        Search OSHA Severe Injury Reports if you want to see data – for 2020 (last available) there were four warehouse employers over .2 reportable injuries per employee in a warehouse setting. Reportable means missed hours or saw a doctor.

        Amazon was the worst at 0.39 injuries per employee. Interestingly and unexpectedly to me, Walmart had 0.06 injuries per employee over the same time frame.

  15. Mrs. Hoover*

    I’ve been working with one of my staffers to improve his performance. It’s not going very well and I’ve had initial conversations with HR about next steps. I’ll be having a counseling session with him in the near future. But, during our regular meeting last week we were addressing a specific area of improvement. I mentioned that while I felt my direct report understood the directions I gave, that I wasn’t always sure that he understood why I was giving him the direction, even when I explain it to him. His response was interesting in that he said he listens to everything I say and thinks about how to improve all the time. But that’s not what my concern is and I told him as much. And when I provided him with an example, he skipped over the specifics and focused on validating why he did something the way he did – but the way he did it was unnecessary and if he listened to what I was telling him and tried to understand the reasons behind it, he would have understood why it was unnecessary.

    After I tried to clarify, he stared at me like I was kicking a dog, so I decided not to fight him on it since it’s part of the larger conversation we’ll be having. Still it does not make me hopeful for that conversation and I am dreading it.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      So . . . he doesn’t actually listen to everything you say?

      I don’t see how you can work with this guy. I mean, it sounds like you’re giving him a very fair chance to improve but it’s not sinking in.

    2. Kathenus*

      I think this current situation may give you the best example to address the core problem directly. You need him to listen to and follow directions, not try to justify why he did or wants to do it another way.

      And since you’re having a conversation, using direct and even blunt language about exactly what you need to see from him to succeed/stay in the job is actually the nicest thing you can do for him, kicked-dog face response from him or not. Maybe one way to frame it is that you need him to change his behavior and follow directions, period. Then add that you want to also offer him information on the reasons for it so he understands, but whether he understands/agrees with the reasons or not, that doesn’t change the fundamental issue that you need him to follow directions. Being crystal clear on it will be the fairest thing for him, and then you can see if he can follow your directions to, you know, follow your directions. Good luck!

    3. Anonymous Koala*

      Maybe some training on active listening would be helpful? Also, personally I am much better at understanding logic and reasoning when instructions are written down than I am when someone gives me oral instructions (especially when I can’t see their face, like over the phone). My boss likes oral instructions, so I usually take notes during meetings and email summaries to my boss afterwards to be sure I understand what’s been asked of me. Maybe you could ask him to do something similar?

      1. Mrs. Hoover*

        I hear that, I am much better with written instructions too… but, he has never expressed a preference and I have asked if he would prefer things in writing or verbally, he had no preference. I’ve tried giving directions (and the reasons why) in writing, verbally, both verbally and then in writing… nothing seems to stick. Recently, we went through creating a document that was supposed to help support him on a project. And not a complicated project either. It’s pretty standard and one he has experience with before. The document was solely for his benefit. And I made him manage putting it together rather than giving explicit A, B, C, directions – because I wanted him to understand everything that was in there and why. It took two weeks of us going back and forth and yet, one of the tasks in that document is what he said he didn’t understand.

    4. Mrs. Hoover*

      Thank you both! I did clarify in the meeting that I didn’t think he was ignoring the directions I gave him, but that I wasn’t seeing improvements reflected in his work moving forward, which indicates he doesn’t understand the reasons behind the directions and is just parroting back what he’s done in the past without considering why. At which point he told me that some of the processes I was asking him to work on were new for him, so he didn’t know what to do. But, that also wasn’t the issue. Because I’ve told him dozens of times that he should always be comfortable asking questions and at one point even directed him to ask one of our senior staffers or my boss if he wasn’t comfortable asking me. (He said he was comfortable) But, he didn’t tell me he didn’t understand the direction when we initially discussed it. And only said he didn’t understand it when I called him out on it. I told him that he should know and understand the directions for every project he works on and if he doesn’t he needs to ask me. And then… kicked dog.

      1. River Otter*

        You will be more successful if you learn to push past the kicked dog look. He gets to have emotions about what you’re telling him. That doesn’t mean you have to stop saying what you were saying if he needs to hear it. This is a “you having a reaction” problem, not a “him having an expression“ problem.

        1. Mrs. Hoover*

          I have pushed past the kicked dog look. The issue with the kicked dog look is that he also stops participating in the conversation. So it becomes unproductive. Some days I continue making my point and other days I just don’t have time or the ability to keep a one-sided conversation going.

    5. Policy Wonk*

      We have a saying where I work, “Some people listen. Most just wait to talk again.” Sounds like that’s what you’ve got here. When you meet with him, I think you need to ask him to explain back to you what you just told him. And follow-up with an e-mail.

      And then, unfortunately, let him go because it doesn’t look like he is going to improve. I’m sorry.

    6. Generic Name*

      I wonder if it would be simpler for you to evaluate his performance if you basically ignore what he says he will do or what he understands. Sure, have a big picture conversation with him, and let him make “yeah, I understand, I’ll do better” or whatever noises. Ignore what he says and watch what he does. Really, it doesn’t matter if he completely internalizes and understands your rationale and your way of thinking when you give him instructions. He just needs to follow instructions. If you say, “I need you to print this file, 3-hole punch it, and put it in a chartreuse binder by 5 PM on Friday” and if he does anything other than literally just that, then there’s a problem. It doesn’t matter if he thinks teal is the optimal binder color, or personally thinks you should comb-bind the document; you didn’t ask for his opinion on the process. You asked him to complete a task following a set of instructions.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      From what you have here a key point I see is what is he trying to improve?

      I’d bet my last chocolate donut that he is trying to improve the system, NOT his own work.

      It could be that you are just using to many words and he is latching on to random words. Be brief and to the point.

      “Here’s your work back to be redone. You did X and I asked for Y. Your work will not be accepted until it is done in Y manner that I asked for.”

      Some people can get locked into trying to improve things and not realize that improvements are not part of the job.

      If he starts in on “but my way is better”, remind him that is not what he was asked. He is now being asked to do his work again in the manner the company* needs him to do the work. Tell him failure to do so will result in (write up, PIP, dimissal, whatever). Ask him if he can do work as described. (*I like to use “company” and not refer to myself. If I said “the way *I* need you to do it” it became a personal thing – where they could argue with me. No. This is not up for debate. This is what the company wants all of us to do.)

      I think your dread levels will go down when you build a plan of what to do when he refuses to do his work correctly. Will you call HR or your boss, will you write him up for insubordination or will you put him on a PIP? Have a plan ready for when he refuses to do his job for the umpteenth time.

      One thing I learned to do was compare how long it took to onboard other people. If a person was taking much longer that other people, then I knew it was not me and it was okay to plan a time line of how much longer I would play this game.

      I had a person who did 6 gizmos a day. Other people were easily doing 300. “I’m working! I’m working!” No you are staring off into space. Finally I landed on, “Figure out what you are going to do to get your productivity up to around 300 per day. (Notice I asked this person to get into a range with what others were doing, not actually do 300.) I thought Daydreamer would break in two, trying to figure out how to even do 20 units per day. It was actually sad to watch the struggle (known drug habit). Daydreamer finally quit because of the “pressure”.

      Of the many mistakes I made in this story, came from a place of trying to help. One day I decided to point out that she was daydreaming and losing time. “NO I am NOT.” This is how I landed on going by results. Trying to get her to correct the problem the way I would — i.e. quit wasting time– only brought on more arguing. At the end of each day we looked at productivity levels together. I have no doubt this was Not Fun for her.

      Try to think about the fact that we cannot help people who do not want help. Just because I was their supervisor did not mean I had to save them from their own failings. Meanwhile it is unfair to the rest of the crew that this person be allowed to carry on in such a manner.

      1. Mrs. Hoover*

        Without getting too in-depth at risk of anyone from where I work reading this (*you never know!) He complicates every assignment he works on – either by thinking too little about what he needs or doing the exact opposite and including everything. There is no middle ground. But, you’re right – I probably do talk too much, because he’s clearly not processing the information well. We did onboard someone last year who has been great, but that’s only one person, so I’m not sure that’s enough of a sample size.

        But, we’re working on a project now that we’ve already had some issues with. So, I’ll try to implement a simpler directive and see if that helps the situation. Though, if I’m honest, I don’t think it will. It’s like asking someone to draw Spiderman. He’ll draw the spidersuit orange, because he couldn’t find a picture of Spiderman to confirm the color. He’ll draw him in pencil because no one told him it should be in color. He won’t add the spider lines because no one told him how to do those, or he’ll draw the cartoon on yellow construction paper because he couldn’t find drawing paper.

        And yet he will never ask someone for a picture of Spiderman or how to draw spider lines or where the drawing paper is. He either assumes he knows the answer or that I should have told him the answer. (Which is all to provide some validation for why I talk so much because I never know what I’m going to get if I don’t)

        1. Not So NewReader*

          A sample size of one is something you can work with. Take that person’s progress, pad it by maybe a month just to try to be fair. Then see where that puts you. For example. Sue was doing A, B and C by month 4. Bob is coming into month 6 shortly and he cannot do A nor B. He has only partially mastered C.

          In thinking about it this way, the comparison shows Bob lagging way behind Sue and that is after allowing Bob an extra month.

          You have an added wrinkle here with the fact that he does not ask questions. Tell him he MUST ask questions as that is part of the job. It’s a requirement.

          I have zero tolerance for anyone who requires me to read their mind. Just a pet peeve. So I’d have to hold myself back here and say “I expect an immediate change starting today that you ask more questions about the tasks you are doing.” I’d wait for him to say, “Well you should have told me!”. And then I would say, “I try to explain things well. If a person does not ask questions there is nothing I can do for that person. It’s a two way street. If a person refuses to ask questions then this will impact their ability to remain working here.”

          This is pure BS— very few people are able to retain any job without asking questions. You may even go as far as saying, “This is a basic skill that is required in most jobs.”

          I am kind of chuckling at my own setting. When my previous boss hired me, she instructed me as needed and then waited quietly to see what questions I came up with. I know from supervising you can tell how much an employee has dug into their work by the types of questions they ask. Well I must have rocked the questions because my boss’ confidence in my grew substantially. For my own part in this, I have never had a job where the questions never, ever stop. But now I have such a job. I felt kind of silly at first, but my boss said, “Your ability to keep doing this job is based on knowing when to ask questions.” And this is so true for our work. I got very comfy with asking questions.

          1. Mrs. Hoover*

            Our newer hire is doing great. I already trust them to handle things that I wouldn’t give my other staffer.

            But, he is aware that he should and can ask questions. I know this because I’ve told him excessively I needed him to ask questions. I told him if he wasn’t sure about something he should ask questions. I told him if he wasn’t comfortable asking me questions he could ask other team members or even my boss. He told me he was comfortable asking questions and he does ask questions, but … they’re not the right questions.

            Sticking with the Spiderman theme – He might ask who keeps the drawing supplies, but won’t think to ask about what supplies he should get. So he’ll come back with construction paper because the office manager (who is not associated with the project) told him it’s good paper. Or he’ll use yellow paint because he couldn’t find red. The thing is that he has drawn things before, so he should be able to navigate some of this with less confusion. The issue is that I think in previous jobs people handed him everything he needed and he would just draw. I need someone who knows what paper to use or what colors to use … or ask if they’re not sure.

          2. Mrs. Hoover*

            Also thank you for the friendly, advisable ear. I appreciate hearing your experience on the issue.

  16. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

    Stopping in to share: I GOT A NEW JOB! And also to share one of the best pieces of advice I’ve received:

    When negotiating salary, ask for as much as you can say without laughing.

    I used that as a guide when I applied for the new job. I practiced working my way up to the point I was asking for what would be a 25% raise from my current job. The new place didn’t even blink. I was in utter shock. I would’ve taken the job if it was flat pay from my current place (which, while not a hell mouth, might be a hell nostril).
    So now, all I have to do is finish the background check and (frustratingly) pass the pee test, and we’re on!

      1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

        Oh believe me. Part of me is waiting for the next all-call from Alison for “hell mouth experiences.”

    3. ArtK*

      When I got my very first job (we rode dinosaurs for our commute), I named a number and they said “yes” so fast that I knew I had blown it. Took me several years to catch up. Good for you for getting what you wanted!

      1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

        You got me beat – I had one of those foot powered cars – bought it second hand off some guy named Flintstone. And thanks!

  17. Should I apply?*

    Yellow flag? I have a job offer for a role that sounds interesting and the compensation is great. I asked to talk to the hiring manager again after I got the offer, who was friendly but had difficulty clearly answering the questions that I asked. Which I thought were pretty standard questions, tell me more about the role, the team, your management style etc.. I didn’t get the sense that he was hiding anything, just that he hadn’t really thought about it. Or is just a poor communicator.

    This is a new role, so that might be contributing. How concerned should I be? Any suggestions on how get a better sense of the manager?

    1. KatRaven*

      I would be a little concerned. Is the hiring manager the same person that would be your manager? If not, that could be why they were unable to address management style, but also not being able to discuss the team, and especially the role, is concerning. The new role factor could make it more difficult to define, but I would hesitate to take a role that wasn’t defined yet since I would worry that it could end up becoming something completely different than what you wanted/expected, or something that continues to change or evolve for months, which could cause a lot of frustration. However, if you would be able to help define the role as the first person to fill it, that could be worth accepting.

      1. *daha**

        FWIW, Alison has defined hiring manager as the person who will be your direct manager if you are hired. It is apparently a standard term.

          1. pinot*

            … it is pretty universal? You hear people use it wrong but that is the most commonly used definition of it.

    2. Celebrator!*

      I’m guessing it being a new role contributes. I think other things to consider are 1- how performance is measured at this place and 2- how much appetite you personally have for forging a path vs doing a tried-and-true thing.

    3. ecnaseener*

      I agree, yellow. Even if he’s just a poor communicator, that’s going to be a pain. But probably one you could live with.

    4. anonymous73*

      If I’m right in assuming the new role you speak of is the hiring manager (and not your potential one), and this will be your direct manager, I’d be more than a little concerned. Yes there is a learning curve when moving into a management position, but those seem like pretty simple and standard questions that someone should be able to answer. And if new to the role, they could easily explain how they’ve started to handle management tasks and what they’ve observed so far. Friendly is good, but no amount of friendliness can make up for an incompetent manager.

    5. WellRed*

      I’m leaning in a different direction: I feel like these were questions to ask in the interview not at the job offer. Maybe he was caught unaware? Or am I misunderstanding the timeline?

    6. Be kind, rewind*

      I’d be very concerned about taking a position that’s anew role when the manager can’t articulate clear information about it. This could indicate they haven’t really thought it out well, and you’ll have unclear duties and expectations.

      And this should have been some of the first information you got during the interview, so that’s a second strike. Was the interview just people/the manager firing questions at you?

      1. Lady Danbury*

        This. Even when I’ve been hiring for a new position, I have thought out exactly what I want from the role. Of course that may change once someone actually starts doing the work, but he should have a good idea about what the expected role is and how performance will be measured. Otherwise, you should expect scope creep, changing goalposts and no way of measuring if you’re doing the job well because nobody knows what the job should be.

  18. Amber Rose*

    We’re trying to hire through a recruiter and I’m frustrated. She went after three people who already have jobs, who scheduled interviews and then withdrew because they… have jobs. That they like. She says nobody is applying but I call BS on that! I think she’s just being too picky. I learned this job with zero prior experience. We don’t need someone knowledgeable, we need someone with decent studying skills.

    My coworker finally hired someone using her services but it took three months and I am not going to burn out if it takes that long, I’m going to flame out. I’ll go out in a furious blaze and get myself blacklisted from the whole industry at this level of exhaustion and aggravation.

    Should I sneak a job ad up myself just to see what kind of hits we get?

      1. noahwynn*

        I don’t know about Amber Rose but I was forced to use an outside recruiter for the last role I was hiring for because our HR team didn’t have resources available to recruit.

    2. I was told there would be llamas*

      It probably depends on what your contract with her says…you might have to pay her fee even if you find a person…I don’t know…just throwing that out there. But a job I am looking at is currently listed by the company itself and 2 recruiters, lol…at least that I’ve seen so far…maybe there’s more!

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      It sounds like she doesn’t really understand what you’re looking for in a candidate. If you primarily want someone who can self-learn, maybe talk to her about adjusting her pool for more new grads, and non-traditional candidates?

    5. Sunflower*

      The second sentence is a bit confusing to me? As someone with a job, I wouldn’t reply to a recruiter’s message and then schedule an interview and then cancel because…I have a job? It’s pretty common to hunt folks who are already in positions vs unemployed though.

      Is it possible there’s some reason people are withdrawing or not interested after they speak to her and she isn’t telling you? It’s also possible maybe the ad is coming off wrong so I would look at that first.

      Not sure if this is within guidelines but can you just ask her to send you all the resumes that come in so you can basically do the recruiting yourself since you’re forced to use her?

    6. WellRed*

      Does the job pay well with benefits? Although if that’s the issue the recruiter should say so,

    7. T. Boone Pickens*

      This could be a few things. Depending on this recruiter’s job load, while the position is your top priority, it may be the recruiter’s 8th or 9th priority which means the recruiter won’t be spending much (if any time) on your opening outside of posting a job ad.

      It’s also worth visiting how competitive your compensation is relative to the market.

      Honestly, a 90 day hiring timeline is fairly standard. Especially once your factor in a couple of interviews, any onboarding/background check/drug screening plus a candidate giving a 2 week notice with their employer.

    8. Little Miss Sunshine*

      Post the opening on every social media platform you use (LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and TikTok) and see what happens. My company’s recreuiters are also slammed but many of us are actively recruiting via social media, alumni networks, and professional associations which has helped a lot.

  19. a small frog*

    i interviewed for a job last week (full-time, kind of a stretch for me, yay!) and i don’t know whether i’m just having nerves or what but i’m wondering if i should want it more. it’s adjacent to the kind of work i want to do and would have benefits, etc, but going into full-time work would be a BIG adjustment for me (thanks pandemic) and it would definitely mean a loss of much of my current free time that i’ve gotten used to. Sometimes I catch myself hoping for a rejection just to take away the burden of choice on my end. Also, I’d feel guilty leaving my current job, which is just 15 hrs a week as a library page but i like the work and my coworkers. Would I look bad after just being here a couple months, or is this the sort of job that people understand as more temporary than others? I’ve never had to make these sorts of decisions before, since i graduated right at the start of the pandemic and we all know what it’s been like since.

    1. OTGW*

      Do not feel guilty!!! You owe them nothing!! Pages are generally either a) students doing it for the money or b) an older person needing something to do. They also get paid crap money, and you need the benefits.

      I say this as someone who has felt bad about looking for FT at a circ job I like but a girl’s gotta eat lmao.

    2. Alice*

      Any part time job is temporary and people will expect you to leave for a full time job with benefits. Totally normal. I think your co-workers at the library will be thrilled for you.

      1. Loulou*

        Seconding this — whenever a page gets a FT library job everyone tends to be thrilled for them.

    3. The Smiling Pug*

      A small frog, I’ve been where you are now. I went back to a part-time job that I’d held throughout college in my hometown. I liked the work, but it just wasn’t feasible long-term. I found a full-time job, which is what I’m currently working at. The worry about staying only a few months is normal, but no one expects you to stay at this part-time gig forever. It’s ok to be nervous because it happens to everyone, especially when starting a new job during these crazy times.

    4. Metadata minion*

      Another librarian here saying don’t worry about it! Sure, we like to get someone for at least a year or so, but this is absolutely a high-turnover position and I guarantee people will understand you jumping on a full-time position unless you work with jerks.

  20. TotesMaGoats*

    Thanks for everyone’s advice on whether or not to tell my boss about my interview. I did not tell them. I had the interview this week. It was a long day with only 30 minutes for lunch…which they did not pay for. This was one red flag among several. In my field, it’s very normal to provide lunch for a candidate when you are there for the bulk of the day. The other red flags included some of the worst faculty vs staff animosity I’ve ever seen. And I thought I’d seen the worst. Plus it seems like existing conflict has not been dealt with at all. I’ve learned a lot of lessons about that kind of environment. I did send my thank you notes including the amin person who helped me a ton.

    Obviously, I shouldn’t assume they’d offer the job but any advice on how to turn it down if they do offer it? I still need to work with this unit. I can’t burn bridges.

    1. Alice*

      It’s like the meme of the toddler running around the corner, then running away again.
      Do you have to give them a reason, or could you just say “Thanks for the offer; I will not accept the position but I want to express my gratitude to everyone involved in the process” and fill out a paragraph with positive waffle about the process? With respect to the admin person it’s not even waffle, it would be sincere.

    2. Nea*

      “Thank you so much for considering me! Unfortunately, between the interview and now my circumstances have changed and I am unable to take your generous offer.”

      DO NOT justify/argue/defend/explain the circumstances that changed. Just emphasize “thank you” and “grateful,” and “no thank you.”

      1. Squid*

        I would take out “between the interview and now” and just leave it at either “my circumstances have changed, and” or just “I am unable to accept” and then be quiet.

    3. Muddlewitch*

      I can’taccept because [personal reason they can’t argue with] and IF you feel confident, point out the elephant in the room. They know it’s there, they might be surprised other people picked up on it.

    4. Sunny*

      Usually I just say “Thanks so much for the offer! This opportunity sounds very exciting and I loved learning more about the job in the interview process. After taking some time to think about it, I’ve realized that it’s best for me to stay in my current position. Again, thank you for your time and best of luck with the process!”

      Or something like that :)

    5. *daha**

      Why wait? If you know you wouldn’t accept, email or phone now to withdraw your candidacy for the job. “I recognize this would not be a successful match.” You’ll save them from checking references or wasting time in discussions, and give them the opportunity to pursue other candidates immediately.

  21. Bronze Medalist*

    A win for this week: paying attention to red flags during an interview.

    For context, I currently work for a very dysfunctional company. Admittedly, I did not do a good enough job vetting the role and company, and Ive been reflecting and trying to avoid it for my next role.

    I am interviewing with a few different companies right now. One company, Corp A, has been around for several years and quite large; however, this team is somewhat new (2 years). Red flags: “start-up mentality,” lots of turnover on the broader team, and “wearing many hats.” All of these flags were raised during my current job’s interview process and ignored them.

    I removed myself from the application process earlier today. Thank you to AAM and its readers for helping me to better see the red flags!

  22. marchy madness*

    An ex-colleague who works at a facility owned by a multi-national corporation had a job opening that he knew I would be perfect for and his management had me come in and interview. I didn’t tank it, but I didn’t excel either – call it a B-. I’m expecting a rejection letter, as the VP told my friend that I was great and the company needed to bring me on board, but not in this role.
    My problem is that during all this, their HR, in a word: sucked. I was dealing with their “Talent Acquisition Team” based in another city. They didn’t reply to emails. They confused the interview times. They don’t know anything about the industry and are very inexperienced in general. My biggest gripe was that, two days before my interview, I asked for a job description so I could prepare. I was referred to the website, where I found that all 8 company postings for management positions had the exact same job description, from low-level management to director level, and it was so generic it could be for any position from managing a Pizza Hut to oversight of constructing a fusion reactor. When I wrote back to ask for a detailed job description, I never got a reply.
    When I get my rejection letter, how can I reply to the cc’d VP that I probably would have performed better had I been provided a job description instead of going in blind? When they asked about my experience with X, I could have said I had no direct experience, but I know about Y & Z in relation to X, instead of just saying I have never done X. And also, how can I communicate to them that their hiring practices in general are awful and off-putting, all without sabotaging any future opportunities with the company?

    1. Gracely*

      I think you don’t reply directly, but you let your friend know all of the issues so they can communicate them to the right people. Any direct reply with all of that info/complaints is just going to sound like sour grapes for being rejected.

    2. Madeleine Matilda*

      Generally you wouldn’t necessarily provide that type of feedback. But since you were referred you could mention the issues to your ex-colleague. Also it isn’t that unusual to have HR not be experts in every job at a company.

    3. Squid*

      I am not sure that you can. If you want to stay in good standing, I would keep my mouth shut and just come up with some strategies for dealing with incompetent TA next time a role of interest comes up. Saying something like that in response to a rejection letter would likely come off as you seeming sour or like a “poor loser” because of said rejection.

    4. BRR*

      I’d just tell your ex-colleague. They’re in a much better position to give this type of feedback. Even thought you’re 100% right, the message won’t be received as effectively from the rejected candidate.

    5. Mrs. D*

      “Talent Acquisition Team” sounds like it could be a group that has no connection to HR. It could be a team within the company, or the recruiting services they hired. Unless they specifically said they were HR, I wouldn’t make that assumption. If they are, in fact, part of the company itself, well they are showing you very clearly who they are. They aren’t responding to your inquiries, they can’t keep the interview times straight, and they have no information on the position you’re hiring for. If it were me, I would turn them down even if they offered the job.

      I wouldn’t make a very big stink about this. You’re from outside the company, so your words would likely have no impact. The red flags say a lot about how they handle things. If you feel like you need to say something, I would say something like “Thank you for considering me for this position. I wish I had been able to learn a little more about the role during the interviewing process. Good luck with filling the job!” Anything more than that would make you look like an applicant who is responding negatively because of the rejection. It’s always better to be the bigger person and be as professionally courteous as possible, even if you didn’t get the same treatment.

      1. Peter*

        I’m in the UK, but our internal talent acquisition team has a reputation as being for those people who couldn’t cope with working on commission as external recruiters.
        I always assume that I need to get to the hiring manager before I’ll find someone who knows anything about the actual job.

    6. All Het Up About It*

      Agree with all above that I don’t think you can do what you want AND not burn that bridge. Also, I would strongly advise against using the language “I probably would have performed better had I been provided a job description instead of going in blind.” That comes off really hostile and sour grape feeling. And after all the person they did hire didn’t have the information either. They liked you. They were impressed by you. Don’t make them change their minds.

      But a much more casual conversation with your ex-colleague is a much better way to go here than reaching out to the VP who might or might not be cc’d on the rejection letter.

    7. PassThePeasPlease*

      You can provide the feedback but sadly if the company is that bad (or even kinda bad) they are unlikely to care/change anything.

    8. marchy madness*

      Thanks for all the feedback. I will take the advice to heart and take the high road. My OP was getting long, but I maybe should have mentioned that interviewed for a lower level position at the same company last year – they loved me and made an offer, but I had to decline, as we couldn’t make the money right. Anyway, thanks and have a great weekend.

  23. Khs245*

    How many questions should one plan to ask during a first interview? A second (if the second is usually the final)?
    I know the thought is to ask what you need to know, but it does seem like there is a sweet spot that isn’t too few questions and doesn’t prolong the interview another half hour with too many.
    3? 5?

    1. ThatGirl*

      I try to have 3-5 questions ready, but often some of them get answered during the course of the interview. Also keep in mind that first interviews are often (not always) HR screeners, and they don’t know as much about the actual job in many cases. So those questions should be geared more toward the company in general.

    2. irene adler*

      Quality over quantity.
      Have ready 6-10 questions in case they answer some of your questions during the course of the interview. That way you are not caught short with nothing to ask.

    3. Esmeralda*

      I have a LOT of questions prepared. But I rank them, and I note which ones are better to ask at a screening interview, the search comm interview, the meeting the team/s interview, the meeting the hiring manager interview.

      If the encounter gets prolonged? Well, if I need those questions answered, I will ask them. Obviously not a couple dozen questions. But it’s an inter-view. They need to be willing to answer my questions.

      Pet peeve: interviewers who leave little time for me to ask my questions. Well, that’s a piece of info too.

    4. ferrina*

      3-5 is usually a good amount, but it’s so situational. Ideally the interview will feel like a conversation and you’ll find yourself asking questions as part of that- if you get to the end and have asked all your questions, it’s fine to say “We’ve actually talked about everything I had questions on. Thank you!” If you haven’t had a chance to ask questions, pick your top 3 to ask (with a couple follow ups if needed). You definitely want to keep an eye on time and the interviewer’s demeanor- often I can only spend 5 minutes after the allotted interview time to ask questions.

    5. MacGillicuddy*

      This reply is a combination of what questions to ask, and red flags.

      If I’m interviewing with multiple people (one at a time, not panel interviews) I usually ask the same question to see how the answers differ. Sometimes I also ask the hiring manager the same question.

      At one interview, after I’d talked with 4 coworker types, I met with the boss & asked “for project assignments, how much collaboration vs independent work is done? And how does information transfer happen?”
      The boss in an annoyed (and somewhat snotty) voice replied “Well! I would have expected you to ask that of the people you just met with.”

      My BS meter started clanging in the red zone, so I said very sweetly “Of course I asked them, but I’ve found it’s always informative to get multiple people’s take on the same question.”

      As soon as I got home I sent my “Thank you, but I’ve decided not to go forward with the position. Good luck in your search” email.

  24. Laney Boggs*

    Okay, I’m a young woman job searching. I’m naturally pretty quiet and a listener (with new people, ha ha) and I’m sure I can come off as “meek.”

    But yesterday is the second time I’ve been interviewed by a man and hes just steamrolled the hell out of me? Anyone else have this experience?

    A woman began the interview, then invited a gentleman on. While we waited for him, she asked me a couple questions about my experience and interest in this position.

    He logs on and A) insults my experience B) talks to the lady like I’m not there (“Send her this, I want her to know what she’s getting into, she she she”) C) says I may not be a good fit since I don’t have a science background (the posting literally said “English degree. Science background not required. We want you for editing”). I have no idea what this position is about, no idea who either of them is (did I speak with HR & the CEO? direct managers? A recruiter and manager?), no idea about the culture.

    The whole thing was a disaster. My last phone interview with a man seemed to go about the same (“you don’t have the experience we’re looking for so I don’t know if this would work out” ok… why did you call me then?) And I actually cried after that one. Is this just me? Am I having a run of bad luck? It never seems to go this bad with female interviewers.

    1. Should I apply?*

      I totally get why you are upset, if someone insulted my experience I would also be mad /sad. It sounds like you have just been unlucky with a couple jerk interviewers. I have been interviewed by plenty of men (I am a women) and have never had an experience like this. I guess the silver lining is that they showed their behavior during the interview and not after you accepted the job.

    2. MsM*

      This guy sounds like a special brand of terrible, and I think in some respects you’re lucky to have gotten the warning about what working with him would be like, instead of getting lulled into a false sense of security by his colleague.

      1. Laney Boggs*

        Yeah, absolutely. The interview scheduling was a bit weird so I was already on guard, but this sealed it

    3. Laney Boggs*

      To the “you don’t have a science background” point, I don’t know that they wrote/read their own listing tbf.

      I also asked about where it said “Primarily M-F but since it’s deadline driven, weekends as required” and they were both like oh no no no nobody ever needs to stay on weekends! Like… okay…

    4. irene adler*

      It’s on them- not you.

      At least you are finding out what these men are like BEFORE you take the job and not afterwards. If a company is okay with overbearing approaches to women, then I’d say you dodged a bullet. Especially if the woman just obeyed this guy’s instructions and did nothing to cut him off.

      And yeah, I’ve had some difficult interviews with male hiring managers. After the “tell me about yourself” question, one man went off on a tangent. He spent several minutes denigrating Millennials (let me spare you the details). Nothing about the position, what he was looking for, etc. I said nothing about being a Millennial (or any other generation) so I don’t know why he felt this was germane.
      Then he ended the interview.

      Never heard from him again.

      There are other jobs out there. Life is too short to think I missed out on a good opportunity.

    5. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I am a man and have had A and C quite a few times. Yes it’s a mystery why people do it. In fact that is the reason for my user name and why I sought out AAM. I had a prospect that started off great and went to crap as it progressed with a little bit of A and C.

      B sticks out to me as problematic, though there is the chance that he could’ve been training someone how to hire, in which case he should have said all of these things before. So B is problematic either way. Even if it’s not sexism (and I am not making a judgment call on that and nor do I want to), it’s horrible for to be discussing this stuff in front of a candidate.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        I wanted to add that as someone who is middle aged, these are the type of situations you learn how to handle better as you get older. So don’t beat yourself up or be depressed, it is a learning experience. Now next time it happens you will probably find yourself pushing back with so much less thought. This applies to job hunting but life situations in general. Now that you’ve experienced this, you’re going to find the “hello I am here” or “can I asked what interested you about my resume if it clearly isn’t what you are looking for” comments flying out of your mouth.

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          Agreed! I can be very quiet around new people, & it was worse when I was younger. You learn to deal. (It helps to have some female role models to channel in these situations.) But it’s not you, it’s them.

        2. DinosaurWrangler*

          Work on your body language. Sit up straight, look ‘em in the eye, and think to yourself “I see your bullshit, you aren’t fooling me!”
          You’d be surprised how this works.

          It’s sort of the teacher affect, where students somehow know you’re not to be messed with.

          And it’s also useful to develop an opinion toward people like that as “you’re an arrogant sexist SOB”. If they go on at length, a well-placed “Excuse me but I need to interrupt you for a moment. Am I interviewing for the job I think I am? You appear to be talking about requirements that are very different from the job description.

          1. Chauncy Gardener*

            This +1000! And I’d like to add to everyone else saying “THIS IS NOT YOU” You dodged a bullet, they showed you (or at least he did) who they are. Nuff said

            Interestingly, I just was interviewing an external accounting firm (to work for my company) and one of the partners did almost the exact same thing. It was breathtakingly awful but super funny at the same time. Obviously we’re going with someone else. These kind of folks can’t get out of their own way!

    6. Not So NewReader*

      My guess would be you are an average person having an average life, this should not mean you come off as meek.

      I think that the people in the interview come off as AHs.

      You are not without recourse here.
      Next time you hit something like this you can:
      — refuse a second interview
      –if you get stuck in a second interview with the same misery as the first, you can say, “I am withdrawing my application, thank you for your time.
      –if you get stuck in a first interview like this one here, you can say “I am withdrawing my application, thank you for your time.”

      You don’t have to explain to them that people think job ads are accurate and that is why they chose to apply. They should know that by now.
      You don’t have to explain why you are withdrawing. You can simply say, “It’s not a good fit for me” or “this is not what I understood the job to be”. If they say, “but-but-but” you can simply repeat, “I am withdrawing my application, thank you for your time.”

      One thing to hang on to, when you interview people are on their best behavior. If this was the best these two can do then this workplace is h3ll on earth. Get a large dish of ice cream, big bowl of popcorn or whatever and congratulate yourself for not accepting this crap in your life.

      It’s okay to refuse to accept behaviors that are unacceptable.

    7. Stoppin' by to chat*

      It sounds like the issue is with the interviewers and you’re taking it personally, when it’s really about them. I would take some time to really dig into your value (even therapy if possible), and come up with some mantras. Like it’s them, not me, etc. It’s okay to speak up and clarify anything you’re not getting from an interview. It’s okay to decide an interview didn’t go well since the interviewers were not prepared (I wouldn’t want to work with the guy you described that talked about you as if you weren’t there…that’s obnoxious!) You are a person deserving of respect, and it’s okay to acknowledge that your gut instincts are okay and not a reflection of your “meekness”

  25. Nusuth*

    Need to vent/ask advice about an (admittedly tiny) thing that is annoying me at work – we have an intern who is generally great but keeps referring to me (an entry level but key employee on a pretty flat team) as his peer. Specifically, I am the primary editor on our most common product, with our supervisor being the final okay – but I have authority to assign rewrites, make changes, etc. After my edit, he always sends it to my boss and says “LW has peer-reviewed.” I’m not his peer!! I don’t think it’s genuine confusion or malice – he’s in grad school so I think it’s academic language seeping in. Ultimately it’s a small detail, but I think my anxieties about my position in the workplace (I’m the only woman besides our boss, and younger than everyone except for this intern, who is my age) so it is genuinely irksome that it doesn’t occur to him that this is minimizing my position. I shouldn’t say something, right?? I’m pretty sure it would come across as a weirdly inconsequential power trip but….ugh. There’s also been situations where he’s clearly seen my edits as suggestions, rather than required changes, which I’ve clarified. I’m also waiting for my review to bring up with my boss a lot of ways that my role/authority need to be formalized with a promotion for clarity, so my logical brain is thinking I should just bookmark this as an annoying example of the chain of command on these projects being unclear. But this is annoying, right???

    1. yala*

      Does he refer to you as a peer outside of that context? If not, it might be easier just to ask him not to refer to an item you’ve checked over as “peer-reviewed” because that term means something specific and it’s not what you have done in this case.

      Just as saying “LW has spellchecked” this wouldn’t be appropriate. It’s a different thing.

      1. Nusuth*

        He doesn’t, and I agree that it would be easy for him to just use a different term, but I worry that asking at all would be weirdly power-trippy when in reality, everyone on the email chain knows that I’m his editor and above the chain of command. There’s no official term for our editing process, or one that everyone uses, so I can’t be like “just so you know, it’s called “X” not peer reviewing.” I just worry that whatever script I come up with to say something would come off as micromanaging/hoarding authority when in reality, probably no one else on the email chain is reading into it.

        1. Gracely*

          Tell him to just say “reviewed” because “peer-review” is a specific thing with a specific context that doesn’t apply here.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Yep. Treat it as using correct terminology. Refuse to personalize it. “Intern, the correct term to use is “review”. A ‘peer-review’ means something else in our setting and is an incorrect use of that term here in this workplace.”

            The sooner you say something the easier it will be. If this type of thing goes on and on it can get to be a big deal inside our own heads and it does not need to be a big deal. This is an intern, they are there for instruction, so just instruct.

          3. Cj*

            I’m in an industry that actually has peer reviews, and the waythe intern is using it is not what it means.

        2. Observer*

          Gracely is correct – he’s using the term incorrectly, and he should know better. I don’t know what his future plans are, but it some places this would make him look pretty bad because even if you were his peer in the workplace, what you are doing is NOT “peer review” as it’s formally used. ESPECIALLY not how it’s used in academic circles.

          The issue where he thinks that your edits are suggestions that he is free to disregard is different. And also something you can bring up, but I think it’s a separate issue.

          1. Loulou*

            He’s not necessarily using the term incorrectly– I’m sure plenty of workplaces, schools, etc. use it informally to mean something other than the process academic journal articles go through. The question is if this is how the term is used at OP’s workplace or not.

            1. Seeking Second Childhood*

              Sounds like it’s simply not used at all! Nysuth, feel free to let the intern know this term is just not used at your company.

            2. Mockingjay*

              We refer to it as technical or peer review – when someone in the same role (junior or senior doesn’t matter) reviews and critiques. If you don’t agree with suggestions or edits, you have to justify why you don’t want to change it, but most review comments are expected to be incorporated, whether technical or editorial.

            3. Kay*

              I worked across a number of industry and I’ve only seen “peer reviewed” in, well, actual peer reviewed situations where the definition applies!

              The word is reviewed as Gracely noted.

              1. Loulou*

                Okay, but nevertheless, there are indeed workplaces that use “peer reviewed” in the sense OP’s intern does. Correctness is sort of beside the point — if people in this workplace use the term this way, OP does not have standing to object on the grounds that they’re not technically peers, but if they don’t, OP can offer a polite correction.

        3. This Old House*

          It doesn’t need a specific other term. Couldn’t you just say, “what I do is editing. Peer review is a very specific process that we’re not involved in”? He’s an intern, he’s supposed to be learning, and it would be a kindness not to let him keep misusing the term. Don’t make it about your role in relation to him, just an informational heads up that this editing is not the same as the peer review process for publishing.

        4. Loulou*

          I think your instincts here are correct! I would not say anything about it UNLESS the phrase “peer review” sounds off on general in your workplace. Then you can let him know that, specifically, but the focus there would not be on how you’re not peers.

        5. Student*

          If it helps for the ego side – in academia, peer-review isn’t done by your work peers. So the term doesn’t mean what you are taking from it even in its natural academic environment. Nobody lets grad students do a peer review; all of their work must be peer-reviewed by somebody in the field who is more experienced. The bar isn’t super high, but it’s above this intern and he probably knows that.

          My recommendation is to second the commenter who said to tell the intern whatever the correct term is in your org. Just a matter-of-fact lexicon correction, don’t get into the power dynamics part you’re worried about unless he calls you a “peer” in other contexts than this.

      2. Reba*

        Yeah, I agree that “peer review” is probably not that significant. It’s classroom lingo, like he just thinks that’s what it’s called when someone reads over your work before you hand it in.

        That being said, if the editing/accepting changes is an ongoing issue, you should talk about that! You could mention it in that context, as it’s related to something he needs to understand about how work products aren’t your authored work in the same way a school paper is, where you can take suggestions but it’s ultimately your call what gets submitted.

        “This is such a small thing, but you often say I ‘peer-review’ your work, and I wonder if that is related to the confusion we talked about regarding required changes that I ask for and how reviews/approvals work.” OTOH if he has improved on this I might let it go due to risk of seeming overly focused on status. IDK.

        Alternatively ITA with Yala that it’s in-bounds to mention that it is school lingo that most people (I think?) don’t use in the work context.

        1. Nusuth*

          I’ve read everyone’s replies (thank you!!), and the gist – that it’s not necessarily wrong for every workplace, but it is for ours, so I should mention it but without making it a thing – makes total sense. Thanks for the sanity check! In addition, your point about the difference between academic work and professional work here makes so much sense and really clarified the problem I’m having with him and another coworker (who is a recent grad school grad at my level who ALSO sometimes ignores my edits). Still a problem – but a useful lens to see how they’re seeing it. Thanks!!

    2. Neurodivergentsaurus Rex*

      I think it would be a favor to him as an intern learning about professional life to point out that “peer-reviewed” has a specific academic meaning and doesn’t apply in this case, but definitely leave out the part about it minimizing your position, because that’s a reach and will just make you look less authoritative – I definitely wouldn’t bring it up to your boss. The part about seeing your edits as suggestions is more important, and is worth a clarifying conversation with him and your boss.

    3. fueled by coffee*

      If he’s in grad school, I think your intuition that he might be using “peer review” in the academic sense is correct. With academic papers, your “peer reviewers” may be higher in the hierarchy than you are (i.e., full professors providing reviews for graduate students’ work), so it might not come across as weird to him. To be fair, I think this is a little bizarre (I would never refer to anything other than the review process on academic papers as ‘peer review’ rather than ‘Nusuth edited/provided feedback/etc.’), but I can see where it comes from.

      But like yala said, it’s totally fine to just ask that he use a different term to refer to this process.

    4. Esmeralda*

      Peer-reviewed does not mean you’re a peer, I don’t think that’s what the intern is saying and it’s not something to worry about.

      I’ve had work peer-reviewed by people several layers up. No one thinks we are peers.

      I’d just advise him in a friendly way that “peer review” comes off a little weird in your office/your industry as it’s a term from academia and they should say something like “Nusuth has edited it” or “Nusuth looked it over” . This way you are getting them to stop it AND you’re doing it in a “I’m sharing my experience as a professional with you” kind of way.

      1. Loulou*

        Yes to all this. If you don’t use the term in your workplace, let him know. If you do use it and your issue is the word “peer,” then you NEED to let it go. Appearing to care too much about things like this will actually make you seem younger and less experienced.

      2. Nusuth*

        Thanks – this makes sense and is what I’m gonna do next time he uses the term. Thank you!

    5. Baeolophus bicolor*

      Given that he’s an intern, you’re entry level, y’all are roughly the same age, and he is in grad school, I think he is using “peer-review” because that is the academic term for having someone who is roughly your position review your work- but I don’t think that’s actually the right term! Your edits aren’t suggestions and you have rewrite assigning power. You are relatively a professor, not a peer. I think it’s worth taking him aside/sending him a Slack or whatever y’all use the next time he refers to it as a peer review to say something along the lines of “Hey, you’ve referred to my reviews as peer reviews a few times now. That’s not actually accurate. [optional explanatory sentence about how your duties mean you have final say.] please refer to it as “reviewed” going forward.”

      1. Parakeet*

        Professors peer review the work of grad students all the time. Grad students, being junior researchers, are mostly not experienced enough to be reviewers. It does not mean “something grad students do for grad students and professors do for professors,” it’s a process that research professionals, which both professors and grad students are, undergo as part of their professional work. And it isn’t about suggestions – if the peer reviewers don’t like your work and you don’t make most of the rewrites they want, you don’t get published in that journal.

        The intern isn’t using the term properly and should be given a heads up, but the status objection to it is entirely out of place.

      2. I.*

        Peer review among actual peers is what you do in high school, not academia. Peer review among academics is experts reviewing the work of slightly less experts, all the way down the chain.

    6. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I think you might care too much about status. I know, sounds harsh, let me explain.

      You technically aren’t not peers. You don’t manage them. They are entry level and you are pretty close to it.

      This situation where people misgauge your status level comes up throughout your career. Some person will have a Director title but then you realize they are actually pretty green and have no reports. Someone else may be a senior level individual contributor but have much more clout than the director.

      What I found after mentally torturing myself over the years about this stuff is that this is one of the areas where focusing on yourself is really really important.

      You’re in a no win situation. Either you feel devalued, or look petty discussing this. Seriously – no one older in senior level roles cares about the difference between you two, but pointing it out makes you look insecure. If you really want to differentiate yourself from interns, do it naturally. Become such a good individual contributor that no one in their right mind would ever lump you in the same pool. And if they do, laughing it up actually tends to make you look higher status. It’s a counterintuitive but I’ve been there before. If someone gets their feathers ruffled at this, it gives it credence. If you laugh it off it makes others question why they’d even entertain the idea

    7. Haha Lala*

      Ugh, I feel for you! A lot of women (myself included!) have had to fight tooth and nail for every bit of experience and seniority, so we’re rightly offended and defensive when we get ‘demoted’ but a less experience man, even if it’s unintentional. You have every right to be annoyed with the intern calling you a peer.

      But, like others have said, it’s a no win situation. If you tell the intern to use different language or mention it to your supervisor, you might look too concerned with the semantics, and make it harder for them to take you seriously. Also,most people in your office likely don’t notice what he’s saying, and if they do it’s weird it reflect poorly on the intern, not you. Unless you make a big deal of it…

      I think your best option would be to talk with your boss and clarify what sort of authority/supervision you have over the intern. You don’t talk about being called a peer, but if you’re clear on your role and the intern’s role, you won’t need to be as self conscious with being call his peer.

      And if you want, when he says you “peer-reviewed” something, you can nod and respond with “yes, I reviewed it.” Subtle works in your favor here.

      1. Parakeet*

        The phrase “peer reviewed” isn’t a demotion, just an incorrect use of jargon between fields. Senior scholars peer review grad students’ papers all the time. Trying to make this into a gendered slight is silly and would be obviously such to anyone who knows what the peer review process is. And honestly, I (not a man) would not catch on to your wording suggestion, if I were in the intern’s place, since “review” is common shorthand for “peer review” in academic research.

        OP, just tell the intern that “peer review” isn’t the term in this context and to say “edited” instead, and leave the meaning that your status anxiety is causing you to project onto the terminology, out of it.

    8. Koala dreams*

      It would be silly to complain that he uses “peer-reviewed” wrong because of the hierarchy, as the phrase “peer-reviewed” doesn’t imply anything about workplace hierarchy. However, it would be nice to tell him the correct phrase in your industry (edit?), and point out that peer-review is a different thing. Part of being an intern is to learn the norms of the workplace, including the professional jargon. And part of your job as an employee working with an intern is to help out. It would only take you a little effort but could mean a lot to the intern.

      I’m not sure what the chain of command being unclear even means in this context. Usually any employee can offer small corrections and useful tips like this to interns.

    9. anonymous73*

      Just because you have different roles and you have more responsibilities doesn’t mean you aren’t peers. I would call a team mate a peer regardless of their job role. You’re not a manager, it’s not a personal attack and you don’t mention that it’s said in a condescending manner. You need to let it go.

  26. Watry*

    Mostly just getting this off my chest:

    Just got out of an interview for a promotion. I think my coworker might actually be favored, but it’s hard to tell since I’m on the autism spectrum. If I don’t get it, I’m gone, though I’ll take the opportunity to be picky. $15 an hour is not worth this.

    Honestly, social difficulties are miserable, and I cannot find a job that doesn’t require you go into management to advance.

    1. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      Flat structures in the levels below management seem to be much favored these days, whether because there are cost savings in having fewer clear cut Assistant Job Title/Associate Job Title/Senior Job Title” or as a reaction to overly hierarchical workplaces or a combo of both. It’s SO frustrating that corporate types don’t seem to realize how demoralizing it can be to high performers to be spinning their wheels for years at a time because there isn’t a logical intermediate step for them, or a way to grow professionally without taking on managerial responsibilities.

      In order to advance I had to leave my previous job, though in the end it was for a management role and I know that’s not what Watry wants. I would have stayed for less than what I gained by leaving. I would have preferred to have some time to get used to more responsibility without taking on direct reports at the same time. very annoying.

      Commiserations Watry! hope you find something externally that’s a good fit if this doesn’t work out.

    2. irene adler*

      I have found that large companies (biotech industry) offer advancement avenues via non-supervisory roles for those who wish to advance but not manage.

      1. Watry*

        Yeah, I’ve noticed that it’s mostly tech companies. There aren’t that many where I am, and I don’t have the qualifications anyway.

      2. Clisby*

        I retired about 6 years ago, but that was definitely the case in my company. There was a whole promotional path for people who wanted to be SMEs. They sometimes ended up as team leads, but didn’t have to go into management if they didn’t want to.

  27. Ann O*

    My employee suffers from anxiety and IBS, both of which are acerbated by stress. This results in frequent unplanned absences and extra WFH days. Normally this isn’t a huge deal; our small team can juggle schedules to cover Pat’s customer appointments. But when we have big projects and events, Pat gets stressed and can’t work. I can’t count on him when I need him the most. I want to give him all the flexibility he needs, but it’s hurting the rest of the team and our ability to serve our customers. I’ve already requested temp help or extra resources but was rejected. I’m a new manager here, and would love advice on how to navigate this.

    1. Squid*

      Are working on those projects/events a significant and critical part of the role? If so, Pat may need to transition to another role.

    2. Madeleine Matilda*

      You are offering Pat reasonable accommodations for his anxiety and IBS. Reasonable accommodations have to be things which allow Pat to do his job. So if he can do some things on WFH and with flexibility for sick days that is great. But if meeting with customers or working at events are essential parts of the job and leaving you shorthanded, then the accommodations are not working.

      Determining accommodations is an interactive process between you and Pat with HR support. You might want to talk with your HR first, but a conversation with Pat is likely necessary to determine if there are other things that can be done to meet his needs so he can do his job. If Pat can’t do the primary work of this job even with accommodations, can you shift around duties between your team members or are there other positions at your workplace for Pat that might be better suited, less stressful, more flexible with WFH, require less in-person customer and event interaction?

    3. Joielle*

      My spouse dealt with something like this, but as the employee with a chronic illness exacerbated by stress. I don’t have a lot of concrete advice – he ultimately left the job that was impacting his health and found something that suits him much better (and pays 30% more, so win-win). But I will say that in his case, his boss’ reaction to the situation made it all a lot worse than it had to be. She didn’t seem to believe that his medical absences were legitimate (or maybe thought that he should have just “toughed it out” more, which was not possible), so she spent a lot of time micromanaging him when he was working. So then, not only was he doing his stressful job, he was also spending hours each week meeting with his boss who was being kind of a jerk about the whole thing, which made it harder to keep up with his work, which stressed him out more, which made him sicker…. and it really spiraled out of control.

      So I guess my advice is to not let your own reaction to the situation be a thing that adds to his stress. And if there’s any opportunity to have Pat transfer to a different position that’s better suited for him, that would probably be the best long-term solution.

    4. anonymous73*

      You’ve been more than accommodating, and now it’s Pat’s job to figure out a way to better deal with their stress and anxiety. Whether that’s therapy or medication or anything in between, that’s not on you to determine. If it’s affecting their ability to do their job on a regular basis, something needs to change.

      1. A Wall*

        That’s not really how it works. Being chronically ill, especially illness triggered by stress, is not something you can just fix right up by putting in effort and seeing a doctor. Folks with chronic flaring illnesses like this spend a huge portion of their entire life trying and trying and trying to feel better and function better because they want their lives to be better, but it is a constant uphill battle and most people are not winning it most of the time. “Now it’s Pat’s job” implies that Pat is only having symptoms because he is not doing what he’s supposed to do, which is BS.

        You can talk about whether this job is a good fit for Pat, but it is absolutely not reasonable to say that someone who is symptomatically ill is only that way because they have not tried hard enough to be well.

    5. Person from the Resume*

      The job sounds like a bad fit for Pat. A reasonable accomidation is not simply being unable to work on big projects and events (when part of the role) because of stress.

      I don’t find my job stressful or anxiety inducing enough that it impacts my physical health; and people wouldn’t describe my role as stress free. I don’t know if Pat’s job is inherently stressful which makes it a bad fit for someone who physically can’t work when stressed or if he’s just extra anxious, but there may not be a reasonable accomidation for him there.

  28. Celebrator!*

    What’s the best way to celebrate a member of your team (a direct report) shipping a big project? (Obviously, raise or bonus and that will happen, but I’m thinking more immediate.) Flowers, food, booze, etc? Curious what people think :)

    1. Alice*

      I love that there are some fields where a raise or bonus is obvious and expected :)
      Since it’s an individual whom you want to celebrate, I think that tailoring the reward to the individual would be great. I don’t know how much you know about their preferences but such tailoring would 1 be really thoughtful and 2 avoid problems like giving booze to an observant Mormon, etc.

    2. OTGW*

      If time off is not an option lol then food is usually pretty great. I’d love getting life a restaurant gift card or a dozen donuts just for me.

      1. Celebrator!*

        we have unlimited PTO (and mean it—the report is launching her thing next week but has been out all this week :) )

        1. Anonymous Koala*

          Just saw this – in that case public recognition is pretty great, as is putting her in for a bonus. Personally I’m not in favour of food, because it’s so hard to know what people’s individual needs/expectations around meals are, but an Amazon gift card is basically cash.

          2. David*

            Or, a gift card to someplace where the employee will be able to get something useful and feel happy about it. Amazon is a good bet for most people, but there are some of us out there who have issues (ethical and/or otherwise) with Amazon and have the means and motivation to shop anywhere else if at all possible. Like, if someone gave me an Amazon gift card, I’d certainly appreciate the fact that the gifter was trying to do something nice, but privately I’d be thinking to myself “gee, thanks for donating to one of America’s scummiest corporations on my behalf /s”, so it wouldn’t exactly have the desired effect.

            Anyway, my point here is not really to bash Amazon, it’s that gift cards are not always basically equivalent to cash even if you can use them to buy basically anything. So when you’re giving a gift card, it helps if you have some idea of what the recipient would likely appreciate.

    3. Not Today, Friends*

      Speaking for myself: public recognition (taking into consideration their level of shyness or whatever), good booze, and a generous gift card. This is exactly what I got in recognition of a beast I shipped recently, and it helped balance out a general feeling of being underappreciated. I worked my butt off, and it mattered that it was acknowledged and thanked.

      But I am also easily bought, so there’s that.

      1. Not Today, Friends*

        This sounds like they thanked my butt, and I’ll be over here giggling for the rest of the day.

      2. Celebrator!*

        a good combo! she does drink so perhaps some combination of that with a gift card. she will def get recognized, both within our team and the company at large (we’re very conscientious about shoutouts here)

    4. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

      An all-staff (or all-department if your org is big) email specifically calling out that person and pointing out what a great job they did. I wish anyone would do this for me :(

    5. irene adler*

      Public recognition? Maybe a department (or company as well?) “shout-out” to recognize Vern who achieved [goal] within [timeline] thus meeting company objective [x]. Include how much the efforts were appreciated. Talking a memo or however your company communicates.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Do you have a way to recognize her internally? I recently nominated my team for a recognition award that they won, so I have a big stack of certificates I have to send out to them (I’m including everybody’s favorite candy bar in theirs as well), but the award will also be mentioned in our division newsletter and will be attached to their employee records.

    7. Anonymous Koala*

      My office allows supervisors to give their direct reports a few hours of admin leave (basically free leave that doesn’t deduct from annual or sick buckets) at their discretion. Could you give your DR an afternoon off or something to show your appreciation?

      1. Celebrator!*

        We have unlimited PTO and flex work hours (this DR has actually been on vacation all this week) so saying “take the afternoon off” is highly, idk, superficial since people generally do that whenever they want or need

    8. anonymous73*

      Personally I’m not one that needs praise and I hate being the center of attention. Outside of a raise or bonus, I think a sincere thank you is all that’s needed. Maybe recognition in a team meeting? I don’t think gifts are necessary.

    9. Sun in an Empty Room*

      I work in a federal office so we’re super limited in how we can celebrate things and give recognition. I’ve enjoyed brining a bottle of sparkling juice (again federal, no alcohol) and doing a quick toast with all involved specifically mentioning the contributions of key people. Small office so we’re all involved in big projects in some way but it feels really nice to publicly acknowledge. I certainly don’t overdo this but we’ve done it about once or twice a year for really big projects.

    10. Madeleine Matilda*

      One thing Alison has recommended before is a hand written note of recognition. Flowers, food, booze are all things that will be gone relatively quickly. A handwritten note from you to your direct report with one of those things will give your report something to save if they want to.

    11. Margaretmary*

      I’d be careful about booze unless you know for a fact the person drinks. I don’t and while I’ve no problems with it, it just means the gift is a waste. And if the person had a specific reason for not drinking – alcoholism (either their own or in the family), religious reasons, etc – it might not go down welll.

      Love the idea of a handwritten note. Or a card. I personally keep most cards I get, especially if they have a personal note in them. I also like the idea of a personalised gift. It’s not the same thing, but when I had an operation, my department gave me a voucher for a bookshop, knowing I love to read. A gift card for something you know they like or their favourite chocolates or something would really indicate this is specially for them and not just a generic gift given to anybody who does well on a project (and given you are asking for advice, it’s pretty clear that is the case).

  29. yala*

    So, for some good news, about a year ago, I was given a letter that was a precursor to termination. From the response letter I wrote, HR felt that it was appropriate to try some new accommodations before proceeding with the termination. I had a check-in meeting with HR recently, and was told that I have “made a complete 180” regarding the quality of my work and meeting expectations.

    Seriously, the accommodations put in place are so minimal, but they have made such a HUGE difference (also I guess that new medication is working better than I thought it was), not just because they help directly, but also because I’m less stressed about being dinged for being a little late, taking a few minutes away from a project to look at my cellphone, etc. Which, in turn, makes it so much easier for me to focus on the details in the work I do.

    I’m a little anxious about some of the more personal-interaction stuff. I still really do prefer email for questions, because being able to write things down helps me to organize my thoughts without getting *too* nervous, and creates something concrete to look at for both parties. But I’m going to try to adapt to fit my boss’s working style a bit better.

    One thing that was kind of annoying about the meeting was they addressed my previous claims about being bullied, and it felt like trying to nail jello to the wall. Basically:
    “Well, yes, X can feel a little unfair, but it’s very justified. Now, if something like Z were happening, that’s when you’d want to come talk to me.”
    “Oh, no, I agree, X is justified, and I’m more than happy to comply with it. But Z is also happening.”
    “Right, so the thing is, X is ok. But if you were to experience Z, that could be an issue.”
    “Yes, Z is the thing I am talking about.”
    “Now, if Z were happening, that’s something we could talk about.”
    “Yes, Z is happening. That’s the thing I was talking about.”
    “Anyway….”

    But overall, I’m pretty happy. (The bullying thing is…not fun, but also significantly less than it was years ago for a variety of reasons. It’s more that I would like HR to be aware that there is a Dynamic in my department, and that may color things. I don’t really expect of want them to do anything about it.)

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      That sounds incredibly frustrating and kind of gaslighting. Did you try specifically calling them in out on what they were doing? Like, “I want to be clear that Z is happening and adversely affecting me. I’ve mentioned this several times in my emails to A, B, and C, and I discussed in my meetings with D and E. What can we do to address this?” And then follow up.

      1. yala*

        I tried, but it just kept going in circles.

        For what it’s worth, there’s really not a lot they could do about Z that wouldn’t just feel petty and uncomfortable for everyone, but I do want them to at least be aware that it’s a factor if “your work is good, but you seem uncomfortable talking to Persons A and Z and they’ve complained” comes up again.

        So I’m going to try and let it go for now. If it becomes relevant or gets out of hand, I’ll go to them and try to be more firm about Z Is Happening, but hopefully it won’t be an issue.

  30. Alice*

    I think my manager wants me to be more flexible and more tolerant of ambiguity. (Although this feedback was itself communicated rather ambiguously….)
    From my perspective, I am tolerant of ambiguity of the sense “we don’t know what the decision will be” or “we don’t know when the decision will be made.” But once there is an official decision or policy, I assume I am supposed to follow it, even if I don’t want to, even if I think it will lead to worse results, rather than trying to relitigate it. Recently my manager told me that it wasn’t necessary to follow a (clearly stated) policy. Flexibility is great! But surprise flexibility is not ideal — now the bad results of the official policy are *my* fault for applying the stated policy. I find this frustrating.
    This particular instance, I had to take one path or another path before I could discuss the issue with my manager. But even when there is enough time for discussion, I sometimes hesitate to raise potential problems with already-made official policies. I feel like I have only so much time and political capital and I want to “spend” it on things that are important to me, not on relitigating every decision that someone else (someone higher up in the company) has made.
    I think this is an organizational issue: if policies are flexible then they shouldn’t be presented as official edicts, and if managers want to hear about potential problems when the policies are applied to real situations they need to make it clear that they welcome such warnings. (And honestly, I have enough to do for my actual job, I don’t have time to “red team” decisions made by leaders even if anyone wanted me to.)
    But if my manager perceives me as inflexible or intolerant of ambiguity, obviously that is a problem.
    Any thoughts?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I don’t think “tolerant of ambiguity” describes this at all. This is about making the right decision given the information at hand, not dealing with gaps in the information provided to you.

      My unwritten Rule 0 for all policies and procedures:
      * Make sure this is the correct thing to do before following it.

      I know that’s glib, and you don’t always know what the right thing to do is in advance; sometimes you have to be halfway through something before you realize you’re on the wrong path.

      But if you go into everything with a grain of salt, and apply some foresight, then you can predict at least some of the issues.

      EG: the policy for setting up a new customer has 30 things you have to do. All of them assume that the customer is in the US, because it asks for state & zipcode, IRS numbers, etc. But the customer is Canadian. So you raise a flag right at the beginning.

      You might be making the mistake of thinking “Well, somebody higher up than me wrote this down, and they know more about it than I do, so I should just assume that it’s the right way to do things.” Clearly the evidence in your case is that’s not a correct assumption to make.

      1. Alice*

        I can definitely predict the negative outcomes :)
        The problem is that I’ve learned over time that raising the negative outcomes as hypotheticals with my manager doesn’t lead to changing the policies, or acknowledging exceptions. A couple times I’ve gotten the explicit response, “You don’t have to think this is the right approach but you have to understand that this is going to be our approach.” So I’ve come to understand that the policies aren’t flexible. After enough of these interactions I’ve stopped raising hypothetical negative outcomes except in the cases where I care the most (mostly workplace safety).
        But in reality the policies can be flexible sometimes, in hindsight, after the predicted negative outcomes have happened.
        I feel like my manager/organization want to get the benefit of me exercising my professional judgement while also retaining the option to fault me for failing to follow a policy, depending on how my decision turns out.

        1. eisa*

          That sucks! Your management sounds pretty crappy.
          I guess you can’t do anything but CYA to the n’th degree : Whenever there is that choice to take, spell it out in an email to your manager : “One way of doing it would be X, but since that would be in violation of our company’s stated policy ABC, I will be doing it like Y.”
          If the manager does not object, he has given his implicit consent and responsibility is with him.
          If he tells you to do X or conversely, Y : even more obviously his call, his responsibility.

        2. Lebkin*

          I think you have a bad manager/organization! They are setting you up to take the blame in all outcomes. As you’ve noted, you have two bad options. You can spend capital trying to push back on policies you know will have bad outcomes or let the bad outcomes happen and then be blamed.

          Of the two, I think pushing back is the better option given what you have in front of you. It would at least help me sleep at night knowing I tried to avoid the bad outcomes.

    2. Generic Name*

      I wonder if you’re visibly expressing frustration when negative outcomes occur when you follow a policy (and an outcome you predicted). Honestly, it sounds like they’re instituting crappy policies, don’t like being told there could be problems, and also don’t like when the problems they’ve been told about happen. I guess if you want to stick around in this environment, you could put your head down and not say anything about a new policy, follow it, and if something bad happens, do your level best to not seem put off by it. A lot of this requires a certain amount of detachment, and can be especially difficult for people who tend to be “optimizers”.

      1. Alice*

        I definitely feel frustration in these situations and while I try not to express it, my poker face has room to improve. My “well what did you expect” vibe is not super constructive.

        And — I did have an interview somewhere else this week. I don’t know if their policies will be any better — no where is perfect — but maybe I just need to take my “non-detached optimizer” personality somewhere else — get out of a dynamic that my manager and I are both feeling stuck in.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I am having a hard time following this.

      It sounds like you are being told “You should do X. But never mind, you don’t have to do X. But do it because we will wonder why you didn’t.”

      You may just need a new job.

      I assume the storyline here is convoluted because your boss is convoluted and you have no idea whether to do X or Y on any given day. No sane person is going to be able to follow this type of instruction.

      If you have a boss who is running you ragged with “do X” and then later “never do X” here is how I handled that.
      Boss: Do X.
      Me: So you are saying to do X, right? I want to do it once and do it right the first time.
      Boss: Yes, do x.

      Next day
      Boss: What did you do X for???!!!
      Me: You said do X.
      Boss: I did not.
      Me: This is why I double checked. I repeated back to you “so you want me to do X, right?” And then I added that I wanted to do it once and do it right.
      Boss: ohhhhhhh
      Me: I do not mind if I do X or if I do Y. I just don’t want to waste company resources by redoing. I prefer to do it correctly the first time. So would you prefer I do Y?

      I think one thing you can do is take the whole conversation off of policies and procedures and just say, “Boss, what do you want me to do? How would you like me to handle it?” Make the spineless person make a decision. It’s up to the boss to interpret company policies and procedures and instruct the employee accordingly.

      Meanwhile, dust off your resume at home.

  31. Jay*

    I’m a retired doc and yes, Match Day is the height of stress for 4th year med students in the US. The system was created when there were more residency slots than there were applicants, and now the situation is reversed in many fields, so it can be difficult.

    To explain briefly, the student creates a list of the residencies they’ve applied in order of preference and the residency creates a list of their applicants in order of preference and The Match computer attempts to, well, match them, ideally putting people where they want to go and where they are wanted. When people don’t match, it may be because they applied to an extremely competitive field and there were more qualified people, or because they didn’t list enough residencies, or because residencies didn’t think they’d come and thus didn’t rank them. Lots of potential reasons. The med school finds out a day or two before who hasn’t matched and usually lets them know. It was a HUGE relief to *not* get a phone call the day before Match Day. The school then tries to help the resident find a place outside the match. Some residencies don’t fill – less desirable specialities in less desirable geographic areas – and they will reach out to med school leadership who will then connect them with unmatched students. Or the med school has affiliated residencies willing to take the students. Most students who don’t match find a place in a residency, although it’s often not the speciality they wanted.

    MD/DOs who don’t do a residency can’t get a license in any state in the US. They can work in research or in biotech or pharma. I have known a few who chose not to do a residency and went directly into bench research or pharma work out of med school, but that’s unusual.

    I went to med school in New York and was an undistinguished student. It was also a undistinguished school – I was an odd applicant out of college (English major who spent more time working in theater than in anybody’s bio lab) and only got in where my dad was on staff. My husband went to grad school in CA. We were married in my third year and chose the timing so I would be an official CA resident before I applied to residencies. The med school didn’t think it was a good idea – they didn’t think I was competitive enough. I finally got the dean of students to tell me that I should pick my residency very early and go do a rotation there, which I did, and it worked out great. It’s a horrible process.

    1. Jay*

      Whoops, that was meant to be an answer to the question above about Match Day. Sigh. Nesting fail.

  32. Job Description*

    I’ve been asked to write a job description for a new hire who will be taking on some of my current job duties.

    This is my first time writing a job description for someone else. Most of the job duties will build on each other – similar tasks, but getting more difficult and in-depth over time.

    My question is, do I list all of job duties up front? Or just the ones that this person will be starting out with? I’m thinking of writing something like “You’ll start out doing X while training on Y, and once you’re comfortable with Y we’ll add that to your list of regular duties and start training on Z.”

    Thoughts? Suggestions?

    1. irene adler*

      You might start with primary duties (required skills/abilities) and then go into secondary duties (nice to haves/ expect to be trained on). That way, a candidate can gauge if their skills match the primary duties = a good fit.

      Otherwise, you may end up missing those who believe they must meet ALL duties before they apply. OR, you receive resumes that meet the secondary duties but not the primary duties.

    3. Muddlewitch*

      I think advancing without management responsibilities usually means having specific, scarce skills. Can you carve yourself a niche in your industry?

    4. Teapot Wrangler*

      I’d write the full job description so they know what they’re getting themselves into and then asterisk or mark in some way the ones they’ll pick up first.

    5. ginkgo*

      I’ve seen this done in the format “At 30 days you’ll… at 60 days you’ll… at 90 days you’ll…” Or 3 months/6 months/a year, or whatever makes sense.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        I like this method. I also like to add things that are required (traits?) like attention to detail, accuracy, timeliness, whatever is required to get the job done well.
        Also, at the top of the job description, put the actual mission/point/reason for the job “Supports the folks manufacturing teapots by ensuring all the supplies are available for use when needed so there are no delays in the manufacturing process” Sorry, poorly written, but I hope I conveyed the point!
        Depending on the job, you can also add things like, “approx 50% of the job will entail routine process such as x, y, z. The remaining time will be focused on resolving shipping issues as they arise”
        Hope this helps!

  33. side hustle question*

    Suggestions for side hustles?

    Specifically looking for things that 1) are safe, e.g. I’m a woman and I’m not going to start driving for Uber and 2) can be done on my own time, e.g. don’t require me to come in at scheduled days/times, as I have another commitment which will always come 1st and I don’t trust managers / schedulers to respect the times I particularly request off.

      1. GraceC*

        I’ve interviewed a lot of people recently (mostly recent grads) who did subtitling/transcription services for video companies as a WFH gig during lockdown – one was an au pair who did a few hours of subtitling work for extra cash once the kids were in bed, etc. It seems to be very flexible with timings and a decent side gig if you can type quickly and accurately.

    2. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

      I do freelance writing of all types on the side. Personal essays, fiction, marketing, SEO, whatever I can find. I typically get paid $100-300 for each piece. You have to be a good writer, though, and fast, and proactive.

      1. side hustle question*

        Can I ask how you got started w/ this or advertise for this? It’s def up my alley, but I have no idea how to get underway.

        2. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

          I signed up for Sonia Weiser’s Patreon “Opportunites of the Week” newsletter. It has tons of calls for pitches. I typically find opportunities, not the other way around. I have a few connections that I’ve made over the years for finding marketing work. You just have to reach out and start asking around.

  34. Notfunny.*

    How do you stay organized? Suggestions for project management systems? Tips and tricks that you recommend? I’m an organized person with a system that mostly works but could be better – would love to hear what works for you!

    1. Nea*

      I’ve got a project with a lot of moving pieces, a mindset that prefers to work visually, and no real interest in learning new project management software.

      Enter: The MS Word table. Column 1, a discrete piece being tracked. Column 2, what needs to be done. Columns 3+ – color-coded hold/act/wait/etc

    2. Admin of Sys*

      I still love Trello, but then i started doing project work with post it notes, so i may be biased.

    4. SecUnit*

      I use Asana for work, and it’s free for personal use with pretty adequate features. I combine that with a notes app (used to be Microsoft OneNote for work and Evernote for home, now I use Apple Notes for both) to completely organize my life. For home, since I’m on a Mac/iOS environment, I started using Things for my to dos and like it a lot, but you do have to be a hefty-ish one-time fee, can’t remember exactly what it is. The key to organizing for me is add-ons for my email (Outlook at work, Spark at home) and any other chat platform (Slack, Teams, etc.) that allow me to make emails and messages directly into to dos. I like to keep my email inbox pretty empty (I hit Inbox Zero a couple times a month, but mostly try to keep less than 10 emails in my inbox), and that’s only possible because I can make those emails/messages into to dos and file them away or trash them.

    5. LizB*

      Not a suggestion for any particular system, but for the podcast Productivity Alchemy. The co-hosts are a married couple, one tech person and one fiction writer, and they a) try out a ton of different organizational methods themselves and b) interview people with varying jobs, lives, and perspectives about how they stay organized and productive. I’ve gotten a lot of really great ideas and advice from both the hosts and the guests.

    6. anonymous73*

      I’m a Project Manager and don’t use any particular apps, just Excel, a notebook and my inbox.

      *I use my inbox as a to do list. I create folders. If an email needs follow up or it’s something I need to complete, it stays in my inbox until it’s done, then it gets moved to a folder
      *I use a notebook with checkboxes to track items I need to complete (some from my inbox, others from meetings), because nothing will ever be as satisfying as checking something off my list. I also use my notebook to keep things straight in my head. I work on 2 different contracts (one is government) and have 2 laptops so I need to keep things separated.
      *I use a spreadsheet to track deliverables and reports I have to complete on a regular basis

    8. Lebkin*

      I have a master to-do list that is always open on my desktop (I use TickTick). This is organized into four categories based on priority: High, Medium, Low, None. Every undone task goes on the list. Bigger projects get broken up into multiple tasks, often across multiple categories.

      Call from my boss with a request? On the list. Email with task from a customer? On the list. Long term project I want to pursue on my own initiative? On the list.

      There is only one kind of task that doesn’t go on the list: things I can do immediately. Whenever I am given a task that is under 5 minutes, I do it immediately. This is because managing it via my task list will take that much time to revisit it later.

      Project names are my key thing that ties all my organization together. Each task is listed as [Project Name]: [Task]. I have a folder with that name on the server, one in my email, and a physical folder. This helps consistently as everything as a place to live. Files generally are name with [Project Name] [File Contents]. This prevents having multiple “Living Room Quote” files. It is instead “Jones Residence Living Room Quote.

      I tend to error on the side of too many folders/project names/tasks rather than less. Sometimes a folder ends up only having one thing in it, but I think that’s better than having objects loose across my physical or virtual spaces.

    9. Generic Name*

      I’m a project manager, and I track overall project status on an Excel spreadsheet, and each project has it’s own file on the server, and I have a Word document in the project file where I have more updated notes. I try not to duplicate information anywhere. As in, my predecessor kept budget info in her notes in the project file, but that info is readily-available in our timekeeping software, which meant she was checking the software and then copy/pasting into a word doc, which seemed inefficient and inaccurate to me. I use tasks in Outlook to flag emails or create tasks when I have to do stuff by deadlines. I am by far not “inbox zero” and I keep some emails unread to remind me I need to take action on them. It’s not the most elegant system, but I think I’m seen as very organized, and I rarely forget to do things.

    10. Lady Danbury*

      I’ve recently started using Todoist and I’m a huge fan. You can integrate other users so that you can assign tasks to them and vice versa. It also integrates with Toggl if you need to track the time for any of the tasks.

  35. I was told there would be llamas*

    What color flag is this…I have been at my current job 10 years and I keep hearing about how it’s an employee’s market so I am trying to figure out the market rate for my role (slight rant: OMG, hiring managers, why, why must you hide the salary amount, gah!)…found one job with a salary that appears to be about 25% above market so I’m suspicious…what are they hiding?!

    1. MsM*

      …An employer who recognizes it’s an employee’s market right now and is prepared to pay for top talent? If you’re not finding anything on Glassdoor or other chatter to warn you away, I’d just apply and see how it goes.

      1. lost academic*

        If you have to post a salary you can’t just set it low in this market, they’re doing the smart thing to get people into the process at all.

    2. anonymous73*

      I would be a bit skeptical (but I’m ALWAYS skeptical) but ask the right questions and trust your instincts if you apply and get to the interview stage. It also sounds like you’re unclear on what market rate actually is, so it may seem higher than it actually is, or you’re being paid below market rate at your current job. I can tell you that every job I’ve ever had has never given a significant raise, so if I was there for a while, I probably could have gotten a job doing the same thing for more money.

      1. I was told there would be llamas*

        yeah, my post was a little contradictory…salaries that I can find are all over the board. I am supposed to talk to a recruiter next week that placed me in a job before my current one and I think that will be helpful. Yes, in the 10 years that I have been in my current job, I’ve only gotten one decent raise and that was due to a promotion.

  36. ONFM*

    This is just a fun work story about getting ghosted by an entire company Division! I work for a large company who hired a HR director in late 2019, against the objections of other involved parties. (His background was spotty and he did not have good reviews, but the position had been open for nearly a year.) Of course, once COVID hit, there was no going back. The entire HR division became remote – that’s fine, most of us did – but once the rest of the company returned to work (October 2021), HR stayed remote. I have a decent amount of interaction with them due to my responsibilities in hiring and promotions, and some COVID coordination, and was able to discover that at least 50% of our HR staff resigned rather than come back to the office, and the HR director just…didn’t tell anyone? It seems like he’s been using the remote work as a cover story.

    I got together with some coworkers (across different divisions), and we were able to piece this all together over an after-hours venting session. Stories like “I can’t get Janice to answer my emails” were met with “Janice quit a month ago, Jamie is handing her stuff now, didn’t you know?” were traded around the table. I’ve gone to my boss, who made inquiries, and he came back and confirmed that it was all true. He’s stunned. Apparently no one in the C-suite knows how to proceed, because they’re all sure that the HR director will simply resign if he gets questioned on it, and there are other people on the line who should have noticed what was going on but didn’t.

    I guess the only question here is – hey, has anyone else worked for a place where your entire HR department just quit? :)

    1. MsM*

      …I mean, I’ve worked for a bunch of places with *no* HR department, which is frustrating (particularly for the CFO, who usually wound up in that role). But I kinda feel like as long as C-suite makes sure they have access to whatever records and systems they need before they pull any triggers, it might be *better* to just clean house and start over with a department that will actually communicate here?

      1. Alice*

        Re cleaning house to the extent of firing everyone in the department — I am of two minds about that. On the one hand, the rank-and-file staff who remain are probably the lowest-performing ones, because the high performers could presumably get new jobs and leave. Maybe firing them would not be a loss. On the other hand, is it fair to expect the rank-and-file staff to go around what must have been explicit instructions from the HR director to keep this quiet? What path were they supposed to use to report this issue?
        So weird!

    2. anonymous73*

      I have one colleague who does this. I think it depends on your role and level at the company. For instance, if nobody will be affected by your vacation outside of your team, you let them know and have no reason to modify your email other than an OOO message. But if you’re in management, or deal with clients, it may not be feasible to let everyone know before you go and need to give people a heads up.

    4. DEJ*

      Our single HR person in a satellite office ‘left’ and nothing was said about it, so I can relate. People continued to email her for things and there was no OOO message or anything indicating she was gone. HR at main corporate would get really cagey if you asked about it, and the whole thing would have created way less gossip if someone had just said ‘Jane is no longer with the satellite office, please contact Susan for any HR needs going forward.’

    5. Person from the Resume*

      Well, “should have noticed” may be trumped by HR director lying and covering is tracks. It seems like it’s the job of somoene in HR to notice these kinds of things.

      Your C-suite sucks cause they hired a bad employee with red flags, let him do whatever excuse he used to hide the resigning people, and now their biggest worry is that HE might quit? They should fire him themselves no worry about him leaving.

    6. AcademiaNut*

      I can tell the C-suite how to proceed… They need to fire the HR director, but make sure he’s locked out of the system first, so he can’t sabotage anything. Then they need to hire a new HR department – offer remote work and a good salary to attract good candidates, and make it clear they’re coming in to clean up a mess. Then rehaul their system so that 1) the HR division has clear enough responsibilities that most of the department can’t quit without anyone noticing 2) they know when people quit. Presumably they weren’t getting paid after quitting, so *someone* knew what was going on – if they’re still getting paid they have a much worse problem.

      I wouldn’t fire the remaining low level HR staff now, but I’d keep a close eye on the, and if they weren’t willing to go along with the new, more professional system, be willing to let them go.

    7. Kiki*

      Never a whole HR department (wow!!!) but I’ve definitely worked at a company that was incredibly secretive about folks leaving. Leadership felt it was less alarming for folks to not see a whole bunch of departure announcements, but it was a small company! People found out eventually AND it just created new organizational nightmares because nobody had created plans on how to handle the open work

  37. Strict Extension*

    Lately (just the last month or so) I’ve noticed a lot of my coworkers putting “upcoming PTO days” in their email signature. Is this a new trend? An old one I’ve just never run into? (My guess is that our HR manager did it for an upcoming vacation during a somewhat busy time in order to set some expectations around her time, and the somewhat sizable batch of newish hires thought it was an organizational practice.) Should I jump on board? If so, how far in advance do you start listing dates? I’ve always set out-of-office replies, but I can see how it might be useful to give common contacts some warning.

    1. I was told there would be llamas*

      I don’t think this is new. Usually I see it when someone is going to be taking at least a week…not just a random day here or there.

      1. Fran Fine*

        This. I did this a couple times at an old company when I was in a very visible role to clients (a commercial claims adjuster working with banks, credit unions, and real estate investors) because if they didn’t see it in my email signature, some of them would keep emailing or calling me checking on the status of their property claims even if they saw my initial OOO message. This notice would let them know I would be out for an extended period and they could plan for it ahead of time (and it did in fact curb the number of emails I received while I was out).

    2. Zephy*

      I…don’t think this is A Thing. You’re probably right that someone in your org decided to do it (for some reason???) and then a bunch of newbies glommed onto it as A Thing when it’s absolutely not, but maybe it makes sense for your industry?

      I don’t think my role would warrant putting that kind of thing in my email signature, but I have set a special outgoing voicemail message when I’m out on extended PTO. Not in advance, though, changing the VM is like the last thing I do before leaving for my extended break. I’ll also verbally announce that kind of thing to my colleagues in team meetings and mention it to clients if it’s relevant (like “I’ll be out of the office all next week so please call me back ASAP to resolve the outstanding issue on your account,” or “I’m out next Thursday and Friday so please send me your deliverables for the X report by Tuesday…”)

    3. Squid*

      It wasn’t really a thing for me until I joined my current company 2.5 years ago, and it became immediately apparent that our department appreciates the email signature reminders of upcoming PTO *in addition to* calendar invites for the days we are gone, even for one-off days that are planned. I wouldn’t necessarily sweat it if you’re already communicating with partners and frequent contacts that you have XYZ days off coming up, but some folks need/want the constant reminder in their faces.

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I do it as just sort of an FYI, primarily to my direct reports, my boss and the people I work directly with, but I still use the out of office reply. I list anything that’s a week or more OR extending a normal holiday, and only once it’s actually formally approved in our PTO system. (I also tend to do my vacations as midweek-to-midweek most of the time, rather than a M-F, which is a little weird in my org I think, so I call it out.) Right now I have the week of PTO that starts next Thursday listed, as well as the two extra days I’m taking off added to the 4th of July holiday. I wouldn’t list July 4th if I wasn’t taking extra days with it, and I’m taking a random day off in April and that’s not listed either.

      A lot of people don’t even notice it, but it has been useful a couple of times.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      It’s really useful if you work with clients. They can’t see my calendar so if they’re looking to schedule a meeting soon, it’s a good “heads-up” for them. I haven’t used it yet but I will be out for over a week in May and I plan to start including dates in my signature a few weeks beforehand.

    6. Generic Name*

      Folks at my company do it, and I’ve seen others in my industry (consulting) do it too. I think it’s reasonably helpful, especially if it’s for a week or longer. I don’t think notifying people in advance of taking an afternoon off is super helpful.

    7. star*

      Reasonably common for me. I work in an org which is a merger of three old ones, so calendar access is not consistent, and where we work with external folks too. Useful as a little heads-up, especially around scheduling.

    8. Lady Danbury*

      I’ve never done this as an email signature. If I’m going to be out for at least a week, I’ll alert certain colleagues directly so that they can plan accordingly. I’ll usually tell them 2-3 weeks in advance, which gives them time to submit any requests might need and for me to start addressing it. I’ve never done this with external clients because my roles have always been support/internal, but if I was working with someone on an ongoing project I would consider alerting them as well.

      I don’t love the idea of including it on an out of office because I wouldn’t necessarily want to alert every single person who sends me an email that I plan to be out.

  38. Boss makes a dollar I make a dime*

    What’s your favorite letter where the LW is clearly the one that’s in the wrong?

    I like the one where the LW was complaining about being told not to flirt with her 18 year old coworker. I also like the one with the manger who let her team bully a new employee because she thought the new employee didn’t “fit the culture”.

    1. Littorally*

      Those are both pretty epic letters.

      I can’t really call it “favorite,” but the one where the LW’s husband resigned on her behalf and she referred to it as “thinking outside the box” lives rent-free in my head. I’d really like to hear an update from her on how her life has gone since then.

    2. Alice*

      The one where LW gave a day off to each employee for their birthday, except for the one who was born on February 29 because it was not a leap year. That one was bonkers.

    3. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      For me, it still goes back to either “I can’t believe my star employee quit because I wouldn’t give her the time off to attend her college graduation” and “I can’t believe my employee is being so rude about payroll messing up their checks for multiple pay periods.”

    4. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

      Definitely the one where OP was convinced that her New employee framed Old employee for stealing New employee’s jacket, which contained New employee’s wallet. Several mysterious charges then showed up on New employee’s credit card.

      Seems obvious what happened, right? Like, Old employee stole the jacket, stole Old employee’s credit card, and then got caught? LW was just CONVINCED that Old employee was completely innocent, and New employee had framed her. Nuts!

      1. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

        Argh of course I messed up the details of this convoluted take. Old employee stole the New employee’s jacket and stole New employee’s credit card!

    5. CTT*

      I have never been able to go back and find it so maybe I’m dreaming it, but someone wrote in and was offended that their interviewer offered them a few blocks of time to choose from instead of picking a time themselves.

    6. Grace Poole*

      I always remember the one where the LW broke up with his girlfriend by moving out when she was out of town, and didn’t answer any of her calls, then found out that she was going to be his supervisor at his new job.

    9. Sherm*

      I’m fascinated in a frustrated sort of way with the OP who went to extreme lengths to avoid charging their struggling employer any expenses. (For example, OP walked for miles carrying heavy equipment instead of paying for transportation.) OP even refused to eat the employer’s free pizza out of principle. In an update, the OP reported that the employer laid off people — so clearly the employer didn’t share this diehard loyalty — but the OP still didn’t change their stance.

      1. A Wall*

        This one might be my favorite, because the LW either had been laid off or was going to be laid off (I forget which) and felt like that actually proved them right for scorning the pizza. Really seemed to think that fewer pizzas and reimbursed cab fares would have stopped the layoffs of a ton of salaried people.

    11. Dark Macadamia*

      Graduation boss was the worst.

      The one who bullied a rockstar employee when they were teens and was really spiraling in the comments and updates (majorly downplayed the bullying, kind of had her life fall apart and blamed the rockstar). She was clearly in the wrong but I also felt really bad for her and hope she was able to turn things around!

      I still wish we’d gotten an update from the woman who was angry her employee didn’t “appreciate” (make use of) the maternity/nursing accomodations the LW made on her behalf.

    12. DEJ*

      Several already mentioned but I would love to know where dress code petition intern is and if they had changed their stance on the situation.

    13. Dory*

      The one that I think about weekly is “I got fired for attending a conference that I wasn’t invited to”
      It’s hard to image someone like that exists

      1. Sleeping Late Every Day*

        I think people like that wind up on The Bachelor/Bachelorette as the season’s designated socially oblivious villain.

    14. AcademiaNut*

      The LW who ghosted their live-in partner of three years by abruptly moving out of the country when their partner was on vacation abroad, to avoid ‘relationship drama’, leaving them genuinely worried that they had died in a ditch somewhere, and was annoyed that the partner contacted family and friends while trying to figure out what was going on. 10 years later, they had taken a job where they were going to be supervised by the ex, and were wondering how to make it work. And completely didn’t grasp how horribly callous their behaviour had been. They followed up, too, and the letter went viral.

      One that was just sad was the young woman who had been rejected from her dream employer in a niche industry because a rockstar employee was someone she had bullied in high school, who wasn’t willing to work with her. They engaged in the comments and followed up, and it became clear that the bullying situation had actually been bad enough that the victim had been suicidal, ran away from home and lived with a relative in another town for a few years. The LW took a not-so-great job out of town, came back one weekend to find her boyfriend cheating on her, and soon thereafter ran into Rockstar in a restaurant and had a public meltdown at her, completely tanking her professional reputation. She was working at rebuilding her life, but still hadn’t gotten over the idea that it was the Rockstar’s fault for not getting over the bullying.

      Actually, both of the above shared the characteristic that the person who had behaved badly figure that because their victim had survived and made a good life for themselves, their actions couldn’t have been *that* bad, not recognizing the years of work and lingering emotional scars that can come from that sort of experience.

      One that was in the weekend thread, the details of which emerged slowly in responses. The LW had gone on an international trip with a junior colleague. They exchanged the fully refundable company plane tickets for tickets on a different airline and pocketed the extra money for a large per diem on the trip. On the way back, the LW was told she needed to pay for a double seat, due to their size. They panicked, took both tickets, plus the company cell phone, credit card and petty cash, leaving her junior in a foreign airport with no ticket, no money and no phone. LW just… abandoned them and went home, without contacting anyone at the company. The junior eventually got home after a family member wired them money for a new ticket, which was not refunded by the company because they had already paid for two plane tickets. The junior was vocally angry about the situation at work. The LW started their question from the perspective that they were angry at the junior for gossiping about the situation, because it made the LW feel embarrassed about her weight.

        1. Virginia Plain*

          https://www.askamanager.org/2018/03/open-thread-march-30-31-2018.html#comment-1920394

          I hope this link works!
          The details are as AcademiaNut describes so it must be the one but the perspective doesn’t match – the commenter was mortified (took a sick day as she couldn’t face people), was disciplined, was evidently filled with shame. Certainly not doubling down or thinking she wasn’t in the wrong, and doesn’t accuse the junior of gossiping, she just said she knew there was gossip, which seemed to be an ingredient in her being horrified at her own behaviour.

  39. science teacher*

    I’m helping to craft the job postings for two openings for new high school teachers at the school where I work (I’m a teacher myself.) We hope to get a diverse candidate pool that represents our student community, both in terms of BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ candidates. We’ll be sending the postings actively to many more teacher prep schools and job boards than ever before, and want to make the application, hiring, and evaluation process as inclusive and equitable as possible. A few questions:
    -My suggested sentences to add to the posting are below. Any thoughts?
    -Any resources you suggest reading to help in this work?
    -Any specific tips for how to make the process more inclusive and equitable?

    Suggested sentences we’re thinking about adding:
    “we seek candidates who are prepared to actively teach about the overlapping systems and intersectionalities that affect our environment and communities.”
    “We strive for a radically inclusive and equitable community for all of our students, and the successful candidate will have a strong commitment to developing culturally-responsive curriculum that reaches all students.”
    “We’re actively seeking a diverse pool of candidates that represents the diversity of our student community, and we are committed to facilitating a truly inclusive recruitment and hiring process, including evaluating the ways we recruit candidates, the transparency of our hiring process, and the ways we evaluate candidates. We aim to be flexible in scheduling and to provide needed accommodations to candidates to ensure that our application process is accessible to all candidates.”

    1. Anon Teacher*

      As someone who works in education in a fairly liberal environment, I would take out “radically” in your sentence above, as well as perhaps “truly.” If your postings are available for public view, I think you’re risking unnecessary backlash with “radical” inclusion & equity in the current climate – at least, in my area/public school district, it would be something a certain subset of the community would get all roiled up about, but they would let just plain old “inclusion & equity” slide by as typical school-speak.

      It is good to get your postings out to as many places as possible and target more colleges. It sounds like you might be at a private or independent school? If you ever send out recruiters or HR reps to schools, make sure to include those lesser known or HBCU schools when possible. That in-person representation (or virtual opportunities to connect) means a lot more than just access to the postings. This can be difficult for an independent school, but sometimes you can get together with other private schools to host a job fair & specifically reach out to diverse programs. Or if you have teachers or administrators who participate in or attend state or national conferences, you can connect with students or program heads at colleges to help develop those ties to potential candidates.

      Additionally, if your school or district reaches out even earlier to potential candidates, such as for student teaching opportunities or summer classes, it’s crucial to make sure these opportunities are available to all as well. Bigger districts tend to cultivate relationships with the colleges in their area, but even an independent school can sometimes work with local colleges to have student teaching opportunities or summer work for aspiring teachers that could help you with applicants in the future.

      Good luck!

      1. science teacher*

        Thanks for this! I’m actually at a small public school in a large district. But we’re hoping to push as our school to make the recruitment process more inclusive for the whole district.

    2. Peachtree*

      All of those sound good – you can also explicitly name things that you don’t support as well, which flags support for the affected group. I.e.: “As a school we stand against racism, ableism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia [and other -isms that you may have in particular like classism]”.

      I’ve also seen “we are committed to diversity and are particular interested in applications from people from historically marginalised communities such as BIPOC or LGBT+ teachers”

    3. Anony*

      The second line refers to a specific skill set – developing culturally responsive curricula – and seems like a separate point from the inclusivity in the hiring process.

      Questions to reflect on: Is your staff already diverse and representative of the student body? What would draw or incentivize BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ teachers to work there? You refer to an inclusive hiring process, but what sort of support do you have in place in the school community for teachers?

      1. science teacher*

        That’s definitely an extremely important question, and one we’re asking alongside these other questions. Our staff doesn’t complete lack diversity, but is certainly much less diverse than our student body. I’m at a small public school with a really great admin, much better work-life balance than other public schools, great support for parents, a lot of autonomy for teachers, and decent resourcing. Our school is seen as a safe space for trans, nonbinary, and other LGBTQIA+ students in the district and we have a lot of LGBTQIA+ students. We emphasize project-based learning and experiential learning in a way that wouldn’t be a draw for everyone, but for some teachers is amazing, and we want to make sure that teachers across the region know we exist – not just teachers already in the “environmental” world. However, I know there’s a lot more we can be doing, and I’m currently working to try to educate myself and then be a pusher of the admin.

    4. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I think #1 is too robotic to use, and would pick #2 or #3.

      I might wonder if you need to shift the focus though? Growing up I felt the teachers were always good, it was the other students. Hiring good teachers isn’t going to help kids suffering bullying or being excluded by other students. I think the risk of hiring a homophobic or racist teacher is infinitely smaller than having to root out problematic behavior in students

      1. Peachtree*

        I think (tho I can’t speak for OP!) that the idea is having a staff from those backgrounds (ie staff who are LGBT or BIPOC) rather than hiring cishet white people who aren’t racist or homophobic. Like affirmative action but in a non mandated way.

      2. Lady Danbury*

        Completely disagree. There’s strong evidence that teachers’ racial bias impacts Black students from a very young age, from how they’re graded to how they’re disciplined. This “infinitely small” risk can and does have a huge impact on these students’ future. Almost every Black person I know has a story of how a teacher or school counselor encouraged them not to apply to certain schools, have lower career ambitions, not to do advanced classes, etc. And then there are the more harmful stories of teachers who call the police on Black students for normal childhood behavior, school to prison pipeline, etc. I encourage you to do further research on this issue instead of generalizing your experience to minimize a very real harm that continues to impact students.

    5. BalanceofThemis*

      Don’t discount candidates from alternative teacher prep programs. Many schools in my area won’t hire them, even though they have the same license.

    6. Fikly*

      And the reason you don’t want candidates who are disabled or have experience working with students with disabilities is? I realize this sounds harsh, but it’s for a reason, because anyone who is disabled and reads yet another job post forgetting their existence is tired of getting slapped in the face. I promise you, you have students with disabilities.

      I was reading a company’s guidance on DEI hiring the other day and this stood out: we will not make an offer until we have a finalist who is part of an underrepresented group. Our finalist group must have at least 1/3 members of underrepresented groups for us to make a decision.

      Does your post include information on how to request those accommodations before getting to an interview? Does your post include concrete information on what you are actively doing to reduce (not prevent, it’s impossible) discrimination?

      1. science teacher*

        Fikly, thanks for the specific reminders to include specific details on HOW to request accommodations and the specifics of what we’re doing to reduce discrimination in the post (or at least a link to a detailed doc/webpage.) That’s a good point! I also really like that commitment about not making a decision until the finalist group is at least 30% from an underrepresented group.

        Are you able to explain your first paragraph a little more? Do you just mean that I specifically mentioned BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ candidates but didn’t mention other underrepresented groups? I do appreciate you making that point. I guess I was specifically thinking about our goal of having a teaching staff that represents our student population. For example, our student population is about 30% students of color, but our teaching staff is currently only 4% teachers of color (that’s just one person…) Our student population is about 15-20% openly/out LGBTQIA+ students, but we don’t have a single out queer member of the teaching staff. And yes, we absolutely have students who have disabilities, but so many disabilities are invisible or unknown unless declared, and obviously I wouldn’t want to pressure candidates to declare them during the hiring process. Currently 1% of our student body uses a wheelchair or similar mobility aid. A much higher percentage have learning disabilities, including dyslexia and others, and you and others here are making me realize that it would also be amazing for them to have teachers who are open about their own experiences with learning disabilities. I’m kind of just thinking out loud here…lots of really good points, thank you.

        1. Fikly*

          Thanks for being open!

          What I meant in the first paragraph was, your example language said you welcome candidates from BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ to apply, but does not mention people with disabilities. Plenty of people who fall in the categories you mentioned, you would have no way to know unless they declared it.

          The point is not to have them declare it to you, either during hiring or after. The point is to have language in your job post that is inclusive so that someone who is disabled knows that you remember they exist, and welcome them to apply.

          One of the really tricky things with trying to get a more diverse group of candidates (so that you can hire more diverse people) is how to get them to apply in the first place. It starts with having inclusive language in your posts. If it’s not inclusive, it is inherently exclusive. I was looking at a job post the other day, thinking seriously about applying. The org was talking about and proud of its 6 ERGs. Not a single one was for people with disabilities. I thought, can I deal with this yet again? And then I turned right around, closed the tab, and cried for a while.

    7. Margaretmary*

      I don’t have any advice for the ad, but would say make sure you think about inclusivity in more terms than just racial minorities, gender balance and LGBT+. Not that those aren’t important, but things like people with disabilities, mental illnesses, class difference and so on often get glossed over and it is easier to miss biases there. Like “it’s not that we favour middle class people. We just consider good communication skills and correct grammar important” (when, by “good communication skills and correct grammar,” they actually mean “middle class dialect”) or “we’re not excluding people with disabilities. We just want good social skills,” when good social skills implies neurotypical behaviour. I’m not saying your school does favour one particular form of speech or whatever, just that they are things to consider.

      Also consider specific local issues. Like I’m in Ireland and the group that probably experience most discrimination here is the Travelling Community. Think about groups that fly under the radar and may even be unknown outside your particular area but may experience discrimination or exclusion locally – could be a specific estate that has had some high profile crimes take place there so everybody gets targetted by the same brush because that’s what people associate with it. Could be a minority religion that is excluded in the area.

  40. Minimal Pear*

    I just want to complain for a second–if you work in HR, payroll, etc. PLEASE check that you’ve spelled people’s names correctly. The payroll person at my company has screwed multiple things up for me because she just can’t spell my name right, even though I’ve pointed it out to her.

    1. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

      This happened to me (and two of my coworkers) at my old job. HR misspelled my name on all of my hiring documents, including my new company email address. I pointed it out right away, and HR changed the spelling on the documents, and closed the misspelled email address and opened a new one with the correct spelling.

      However. All of my employment docs were sent to the old, now closed email address, and they just would NOT resend them to the new one. HR got super snippy with me when I said I did not have my signed docs, because I no longer had access to them due to their mistake. Again, they did this to TWO other people that were hired at the same time.

      And then, for the duration of my employment there, my name in our HR portal was just completely wrong. Like, not misspelled, just the wrong name entirely. They couldn’t figure out how to fix it, so they never did!

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      *so many facepalm emojis*

      As an HR/Ops person I am so paranoid about doing this. I always copy/paste from like…the email address, or something else they’ve written themselves if I am able to, and then triple check other things to make sure THEY didn’t spell it wrong (I have spelled my own name wrong before no I don’t want to talk about it) and only then send it to IT. It’s the easiest thing to screw up, the hardest thing to fix once it’s in because it ends up being in a thousand different places, and it ruins the onboarding process and destroys the goodwill with the new employee if it’s not correct. I don’t understand why people aren’t diligent about this it’s such a respect issue.

    3. It's fantastic it's so plastic*

      I just got an award with my name spelled wrong. Hard-coded in the plastic until the end of time.

      1. Generic Name*

        Yeah, I have a plaque with my first name spelled wrong. It also has my married last name (and I don’t like seeing my married name anywhere since I reverted to my original name when I got divorced), so maybe I should just chuck it.

  41. Neurodivergentsaurus Rex*

    Healthcare workers, how are you coping? I’m not patient-facing at all, I work with c-19 lab report data, and I love my job but all the ups and downs of the pandemmy really take a toll.

    I work for the pandemic response for my state and 100+ contractors from our unit have been notified they’re being “deactivated” (basically laid off). I am the team lead for a very specialized team that is not yet facing layoffs, and have been told my position is safe for at least a year. Nevertheless, the survivor’s guilt is real, as is the feeling that we’re tempting fate and will be drowning in new cases and overworked again soon.

    1. Alice*

      No advice, but I’m sorry and I wrote to my congressman to say I want pandemic response funding to continue at a high level. Fingers crossed.

    2. Tatiana*

      I get it. I’m an RN in discharge planning, I recently moved from an at-the-hospital-every-day position to WFH and I feel like I’ve abandoned all my work friends.

  42. Yet Another Jenn*

    I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some perspective on a problem I’m having at work.

    I have been at my company for seven years. I have done essentially the same thing for seven years and it is glorified data entry, basically, with elements of having to know and reference government regulations while doing so. I need to be challenged and engaged with my work, and naturally after seven years of data entry I got incredibly, deathly bored to the point of knowing my work would suffer if I did it much longer. So I applied to a different department, where my new manager has given me glowing feedback about my skills and work ethic and positive attitude and productivity, and my new colleague and I work extremely well together. I have been full time in my new position for about a month, and finally starting to feel happy at work again. Then my manager dropped a bombshell on me: they needed me to go back to doing my old job for a period of time. But this time, for the same department in a different office in a different time zone (we are all remote, as the return to office hasn’t begun yet for us), with different managers and different processes. This was touted as a “special project” but basically what’s really happening is, a competitor of ours was hit with a large issue that affected their ability to do business, and since my company and this competitor share many clients, my company decided to take on as many of that company’s client’s as possible, and, well, wouldn’t you know it, but the other office that would be handling this work just doesn’t have enough staff to handle all the new work coming in. So the VP decided to shake down other departments (mine included) for anybody with recent similar experience, and I was the only one in my department with any recent experience, so I was the sacrificial goat.
    This is basically putting me back in my old position, except with less responsibility, more tedium, and no real reward. Because I changed departments and got a raise earlier in the year, that disqualifies me from the regular yearly raises handed out in April. There is no reward, career, personal, or monetary, associated with working on this project. I’m just the unlucky bastard who happens to know sort of what to do, being assigned to do my old job where someone from the new office has to check over all my work and give me stupid little status reports on every little thing I do “wrong” (because I’m used to doing it the opposite, or another way).
    My manager is fully aware that I do not wish to be involved in this project, but had exactly as much say in this decision as I did (that is to say, none), because it came from On High, and therefore does not have the authority to just tell me I don’t have to do it.
    Is there any way of handling this, other than just flinging my hands in the air and going to another company? The hinting is that I’m going to be trapped in this purgatory for 3-6 months, which is about 2-5 months longer than my tolerance level.

    1. Just another queer reader*

      Any chance you could talk with your boss about at least getting that annual raise?

      There’s always the option of finding another job, too.

      Good luck.

    2. Fabulous*

      I might suggest taking this to HR. If they have any sort of retention goals, they might be interested in hearing your issue and helping to come up with a compromise.

    3. Mockingjay*

      You and New Manager need to build a case to have you return to New Role. What’s the impact on New Dept. of you filling in for 6 full months? You need metrics – effects on schedule, productivity, costs. Offer alternatives: you’re can help out for a month or two to help set things up and train people, but then return to New Role. If the work is client based, better to help other staff establish a relationship with the new client(s), because you have to go back to New Role. You can work FT on Old Role for a month, then transition to 50% on both jobs, then back to New Role. And so on.

      Take some time and craft a couple of scenarios in which you get at least some of what you want, but the important thing is to ESTABLISH AN END DATE for your “loan.”

      I’ve been where you are; transferred out of the Dept. of Hell, only to be borrowed back for six months because they couldn’t staff my replacement (NO ONE wanted to work there and they kept quitting). A senior manager in New Dept. finally put his foot down with Dept. of Hell when I couldn’t take it any more. Take heart and build a business case, not an emotional appeal – that will give you the best chance to get out of there once and for all.

      1. Yet Another Jenn*

        My job is a two-person job, and does involve a lot of client contact. However, my predecessor up and quit before the end of 2021, so my counterpart has been doing it herself, with lots of overtime, very little time off, and a growing burnout. The VP saw, “well, it was kind of doing fine on one person, so we’re stealing the New Second Employee for our purposes.” Our manager recognizes my coworker’s burnout, and has actually filled in doing some of the work herself to try to help out. But between my previous department demanding me part time for three weeks, and now this, it’s almost as though I haven’t been hired, and my training is very much incomplete. My manager and my colleague and I have discussed me working Sunday afternoons on pure OT just to do administrative tasks in my new department (since I’ve only been half trained, and that only on the easier tasks thus far), and she has made clear that OT is unlimited as long as we want, but unfortunately I must spend my regular 40 hours doing this other project. Plus, a small part of why I left the old department was that they relied on OT and begging people to do OT all the time (I am not exaggerating when I say I got 8-10 separate email requests per week asking for overtime, and multiple guilt tripping phone calls from my drowning manager begging for help, just 4 hours on saturday, please..) rather than hiring. Which they try to do, but the salary they offer doesn’t bring in a whole lot of candidates.

        My colleague has told me extensively that she does not plan to stay with the company if they don’t start helping HER out more tangibly — she is paid SIGNIFICANTLY less than me, yet has to train me! And my manager’s manager has shuffled her around on a meeting about pay (because of course our manager can’t approve it on her own..) And if she doesn’t get the raise she wants, plus has to continue doing the whole job almost herself without knowing for how much longer, I doubt she’ll stay. I would not encourage her to.

        So, in all of this, my company basically stands to lose two people, and we would be the only two people who really do what we do, if they don’t start listening to both our concerns. This would set the department back very much because my manager would have to start from scratch arranging for people to do our work which involves a lot of client contact. Obviously, I have no real idea how much my manager and her boss and the VP have actually discussed this since I wouldn’t be privy to those conversations, but my colleague and I have DEFINITELY made her aware, separately and together, that we are unhappy with the way things are going, so if our management chain doesn’t see the potential for losing two employees, that’s on them not us. I am reluctant to be more blunt — “I will leave if I have to continue on this project for months,” because my company, while never firing people on performance, absolutely loves to fire people who are trying to go to our competitors. A lot of my former coworkers quit VERY abruptly for this reason. At least, I am reluctant to be more assertive without being able to produce a competing offer letter. I am absolutely updating my resumé so I can interview elsewhere at this point.

        As far as a timeline, I tried. When this was announced to me two weeks ago, my manager had the impression of it being “at least 90 days? Ish?” in her exact words. This past week I sent an email to the manager of the group I am working with, and my own manager and director were copied in as well, because I had a half dozen questions involving access, procedures, and most importantly, an estimated timeline for this project. The answer I was given on the timeline was, “Well, we’ve taken on a lot of new clients as a result of this. So awhile.” That, in my company, means no less than 3 months. Probably longer. When I saw that, I resolved that I would bring it up again, if they had a weekly check in of some kind, or if I didn’t have a meeting with the manager of this other group, in about 2 weeks. I will not be doing it for months on end without concessions or quitting, I know that much.

        I would have absolutely preferred for this to be a part time thing. Even back to, doing mornings on one job and afternoons on the other (like I had to do during the transition while they hired to replace me). That at least would have allowed my coworker and I to continue to get me fully integrated to my new regular role, without her burning out so much, and still provide tangible assistance. Depending on how things go in the next two weeks, I may directly propose this as an alternative and see how it pans out.

        I really don’t consider myself an unreasonable employee. I nodded and smiled while I did the 50/50 transition, even though I groaned about it daily. I fully appreciate that the people in the other office are probably struggling too and they have obviously expressed appreciation for any help they can get. I know the Upper Management is who’s to blame for the problems and I’m trying to be as courteous as I can about the whole thing, while putting my foot down. I know just saying “but i HATE it” isn’t going to get me anywhere, but having some idea how to proceed without mentioning how miserable I am (at least, not mentioning that first) was something I struggled with articulating.

        Me being absent from my department for months on end is absolutely going to be a loss for the company, and my manager and her manager, our director, already know that. The VP just appears to not value us as much as he values the department I’m suborned to assist. And that’s because we don’t bring in as much billable revenue — which my department has never had a lot of, in its nature.

        Your reply has been VERY valuable, I appreciate the insights very much.

        1. AcademiaNut*

          I honestly think they’re going to dump you back in your old role and leave you there, because it’s easier for them than hiring or training someone new. You need get a new job.

          They haven’t hired the new people they need, they’re not willing to offer salaries that will let them hire someone, they’d rather beg for overtime than staff properly, they don’t care if employees hate their job, and they’re vindictive when someone gets another offer. If the place implodes because they drove off the only two people who know how to do a vital task, it’s entirely their own doing.

    4. *daha**

      Fling your hands! Revise your resume. Research job opportunities. Craft cover letters. Submit ASAP. There’s no guarantee you’ll be back doing new position ever, much less within six months, and you don’t want to wait six months to find this out and start the process then.
      If you get an offer before you feel you’re ready to move out, then turn it down.

      1. Yet Another Jenn*

        I am not waiting to do that for sure! I’m spending this weekend updating my resumé and doing some research on the job market. I really do want to have leverage with my company’s upper management on this issue by having a competing offer to walk away to if they won’t budge. My company often takes a dim view of employees looking/going elsewhere by firing them instead of letting them work out notice periods, or firing them when an offer letter is shown.

    5. Policy Wonk*

      Get a time period in writing. Much easier to tolerate when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. And ask for a bonus for doing this. (If I read your letter correctly, you are still getting paid the higher salary for the new job, so I can see that a raise wouldn’t be on the table. If I misunderstood and they want to send you back to the old pay, tell them they need to keep your pay the same or you will take — whatever action is appropriate – grievance, legal?)

      1. Yet Another Jenn*

        Yes. My on-paper salary and title have not changed. I am just doing entry level work again, essentially. If they had tried to reduce my pay or change my title back, I would have outright refused to do the work, told them so, and let them decide to fire me. The fact that I’m being overpaid to do this work is why I want to try to work with them a little.

        I absolutely WANT a timeline. I asked the manager of the department I am working with for one, with my manager/director copied in on that request. She could not provide more than the vaguest “awhile.” I intend to press her on that again in a week or two. While, of course, updating my resumé and seeking out interviews elsewhere. That’s a given, until/unless something changes here at my company. I feel like being more pushy than every week or every other week would not yield any better answers, unfortunately.

    6. Be kind, rewind*

      How much vacation time do you have? If you can use a lot during that time, it might be more bearable.

      1. Yet Another Jenn*

        I do intend to use some! Unfortunately I’ve already scheduled the majority of my three weeks for later this year for other family obligations and events with pre-planned dates, so not as much as I would like.

    7. Pocket Mouse*

      How important is it that your experience with this type of work is recent? It sounds like there are others who have the same or similar experience, just less recent. Can you push back with an argument that recency is not a valid qualification? Or, if not, can you enlist another person to do the first month with you so you can get them up to date, then you bow out and they continue for another 1-4 months?

      1. Yet Another Jenn*

        It is pretty important, as I found out this week. Another person who was suborned like me hasn’t done this work in over 5 years and no longer has anything more than a basic understanding of what they need. He still hasn’t joined me in the project because they are scrambling to (re)train him. It is data entry, but there are a lot of SOPs built in, and there is definitely a need for some industry knowledge to be optimal at it. It really isn’t something that “anyone” can do.

        My hope initially when I heard about this was that I (and whoever else they were grabbing) would be doing it temporarily while they trained existing employees on the complicating bits, and then hired entry level employees to replace *those* employees, which is what would make sense in my old department. Obviously I do not know if that is happening or not, but since they are not willing/able to give me a timeline (yet) it isn’t sounding likely. I can’t help but think if they were actually hiring for this work they would have a timeline for me.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Are you in the US? If yes, will you end up paying income taxes for your state plus your work location state? Can you tell your boss that paying taxes in two states causes a problem for you?

      1. Yet Another Jenn*

        That, at least, won’t be a problem. Nothing is changing at the payroll level. So my department/office is still paying me based on my “regular” position, I’m just doing work to benefit another office.

    9. beach read*

      Could you ask for a compromise such as teaching a second employee, or …a temp on how to do the job, so you could do a little of both, that way you’d still keep your toes in the water of the new job so to speak?

  43. The Fellow*

    So I have a question (or maybe just a need for encouragement). I am a one-year research fellow at a nonprofit. I am paid by the fellowship organization, not the nonprofit. I love the work I’ve been doing, and I think my supervisor/coworkers really like me as well – a lot of compliments, lots of additional work the nonprofit wants me to take on etc. I would really like to stay at this position full-time, after the fellowship is over.

    Yesterday, my supervisor and I had a zoom call, and she asked if I was going to re-apply for the fellowship, because the fellowship org has specifically asked the nonprofits *not* to favor their current fellows . I got flustered, and was like “uh, maybe, but I’ve been worried they would just reject me, because I’m a prior recipient/they want to spread the fellowships” (which is part of the orgs ethos – they want to spread the fellowships to as many people as possible). Anyway, she was very much like “we would love for you to stay on, if you reapplied – the work is not done, and we want you to be here.”

    (slightly convoluted, my apologies -). How should I follow up this conversation? To be clear, while I *could* reapply for the fellowship, I *do* think I would be disfavored by the fellowship granting body, and I also would strongly prefer a job, for health insurance, retirement, stability, and other reasons. Right now, I’m planning an email where I ask whether the nonprofit would be willing to employ me directly after the fellowship is over – any thoughts?

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      “ask whether the nonprofit would be willing to employ me directly after the fellowship is over” I think this is a good option, but why not do both if you really want to stay with the project; apply and see what happens with the fellowship and ask the non-profit if they can hire you. However, it’s likely the non-profit relies on the fellowship to fund the position, and they can’t afford it otherwise especially when factoring in all of the benefits you (rightly) want. That may be what your supervisor is hinting at — they can’t retain you without the fellowship.

    3. Procrastinating at work*

      This really feels like the nonprofit is trying to get good work without paying benefits and providing stability to you. I would send an email or phone call where you explain that the fellowship strongly discourages people from reapplying and you doubt you would get it again. I would then ask if there is any position that is open or can be created because you feel strongly about the work and like manger said, the work isn’t done.

  44. AcrobatSquirrel*

    I have a “what would you do?” situation and would value opinions and thoughts, because I’m a bit stuck.

    I worked in Old Job for a really long time, more than 10 years. I loved it for most of that time but in the final 2 years there was a series of changes that made the role way less fun and a lot more frustrating. So when an opening came up in a different department, doing similar work in a totally different part of the org, I applied and got it.

    I have been in New Job for about a year. The team is lovely and the sorts of demoralizing frustrations at Old Job are not present at New Job. I had a good review recently. And yet I cannot get comfortable! The new org is confusing and very wide in scope, and there is very little guidance for me or my products. After a year I still feel like I’m not quite the right fit here. I am a person who likes (needs) processes, routines, and parameters. This doesn’t mean I need my hand held, but I want to know exactly what you want and when you want it. And since I always feel a bit like I’m guessing in this role, I’m really starting to think I just don’t have the instinct or the confidence to just march forward on projects and assignments with such minimal direction.

    I don’t miss the aggravation of the old job, but I miss the people, the sense of purpose, the clear direction, and the cool factor (it was a super cool workplace). However, I know the situation there for those in my old role has gotten worse instead of better. And they’re not hiring at the moment.

    What would you do if you were me? Try to get more comfortable somehow in the current role?

    1. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

      I’d probably be thinking about leaving the org altogether. You gave it your best shot at staying, but it’s not working out. Going back to your old job is not an option, because 1) they’re not hiring, and 2) the atmosphere would make you unhappy. Remember that rose-colored glasses tend to creep up on us without us even realizing.

    2. Zephy*

      Do you have any authority to create the processes, routines, parameters that you need? Is it just that such a system doesn’t currently exist but someone (you?) could build one, or is it the nature of the work that such a structured approach wouldn’t jibe with what actually needs to be done?

      If you wouldn’t be able (allowed or capable, either way) to build the structure that you need, then it may be time to jump ship, but you’ve been there a year and you have evidence that they like you – if you aren’t comfortable just setting up a process, talk to your boss and get their take and possibly their buy-in.

      1. Squid*

        Yeah, this strikes me as a “ask for what you need/want” type of situation. Don’t assume you are out there on your own, but rather talk to your manager about how you best work and that you don’t feel that you are performing optimally, and here’s XYZ thing that you would like their support on to move toward optimal.

    3. anonymous73*

      Have a conversation with your manager about your frustrations and struggles. If they’re good at their job, they’ll want you to succeed. And if the answers you get don’t show that things will improve, polish off the resume and start job hunting. Maybe you’re not in the right organization. You changed departments but you’re still not really happy in your role.

    4. Polopoly*

      Give yourself time. You’ve now been in the role long enough to see how different it is (good and bad). But you haven’t been there long enough to adapt yourself to it, or adapt the role to you. Like putting on a new pair of boots – the pressure points often only appear after hiking a few miles… usually with time, the boots stretch a bit and your feet adapt a bit and the discomfort resolves. It may be that your comfort level will increase again over time. You were at your old job for a decade – you won’t get that comfortable again overnight.

      But obviously if it continues without getting better, or there are any red flags, changing jobs remains an option.

  45. Department Director*

    How do I deal with seeing a pushy consultant who got upset when we didn’t hire her, and who keeps reaching out to try to collaborate and “mentor” me, at an industry conference?

    I’m a director of a department and my boss is a VP who oversees a few different departments. This consultant reached out to both of us at the end of last year and wanted to meet to talk about the services she provides. At the time, we were working on business development ideas, so we scheduled a meeting with her in January. I had briefly interacted with her at a virtual event last summer, and she is known and seems to be respected in our (small, niche) field. That meeting came and went and I was… not interested in moving forward with her. She talked nonstop and would not let either of us get a word in, the ideas she proposed were either things we had already tried, can’t do for various reasons, or are already working on, and she was very patronizing to me. (I am 38 and I’ve been in this position for 2 years, this industry is new to me but I had a well over decade of experience in a related industry before coming here – think llama grooming vs alpaca grooming.)

    Unfortunately, my boss and I didn’t agree on not moving forward with working with her (she treats my boss much differently than she treats me), had her write out a business proposal, and scheduled a follow up meeting that was supposed to happen this week. Two days before, my boss was reviewing her calendar and asked me to cancel the meeting since we are already moving forward with the business development plan we crafted in December and don’t have the bandwidth for more right now. I sent an email that basically said, we aren’t able to move forward right now, so we are going to go ahead and cancel, but will let you know if something changes.

    She was outraged! She basically said, “how could you do this, I thought we were colleagues! Surely you want to move forward with some of the proposal!” and demanded to know why we had canceled. I was quite taken aback – I already wasn’t enthused about working with her, but this was so off putting to me that I never want to again. My boss responded at this point, but then the consultant replied AGAIN saying that she “feels like part of our team and is excited to work with us” (what?), and then noted that she is going to be at an industry conference in a few weeks and will “be sure to find” me. Apparently she has lots of pearls of wisdom she wants to share (pass).

    Does anyone have any suggestions for scripts of how to deal with this person at the conference? I am not interested in meeting with her or talking with her at any length, but she is also a prominent member of our niche industry and I am relatively senior and would like to have a collegial relationship with her, since we can’t really avoid one another. This will be our first in-person event since I’ve been in this role, and I want it to be a positive experience.

    Also, my boss expressed that she is impressed by the consultant’s gumption (that word!), but if she were hired my boss would only have a minor role in working with her, it would mainly be me. I do not ever want to hire or work with this woman. Suggestions of how to communicate that to my boss professionally? This woman really grinds my gears and it’s the first time in a very long time I’ve encountered someone in a professional setting that I have this kind of reaction to.

    1. MsM*

      To consultant: “I appreciate your enthusiasm, but what I said still stands: we’re not moving forward with the project at the moment, and I don’t have a timeline for when that will change.” Repeat as often and firmly as necessary, and be prepared to make a lot of new friends you just *have* to go over and talk to instead.

      To boss: “I don’t find this person’s refusal to hear and accept a “no” or even a “not right now” professional, and I am deeply concerned about what that signals for any project we might end up on together and any conflicts we might encounter along the way. As I’ve said, I also wasn’t impressed originally by her failure to ask about and take on board our specific needs when making her pitch. I’m confident we’ll find a candidate we both like even better when we’re ready to relaunch this search and it won’t be an issue, but if you’re determined to keep her in the mix, I need *you* to hear me and take me seriously when I say I do not see that ending well.”

    2. Conference dodging*

      At the conference, “I don’t have time to talk right now. Great seeing you.” Smile. Walk away. Repeat.

    3. Prospect Gone Bad*

      “had her write out a business proposal, and scheduled a follow up meeting that was supposed to happen this week. Two days before, my boss was reviewing her calendar and asked me to cancel the meeting since we are already moving forward with the business development plan we crafted ”

      I think your boss messed this up big time. Don’t make someone do work for free (unless it was just a form document) when you know you aren’t going to use it. So the consultant went from maybe too pushy to being rightfully aggrieved. I feel they are actually owed an apology now, and you need to get your boss to do it!

      1. Department Director*

        I don’t disagree, but I’m trying to focus on what I have control over, which is not that.

  46. High Steaks*

    Folks who have taken circuitous paths to your current career: How did you arrive there?

    My career so far has been all over the place, and I’m still not where I want to be. I’d love to hear stories about weird career journeys that end in a job that you love!

    1. Carmen San Diego*

      Once I was fed up with a project I was leading and the incompetence of a few team members. I rash applied to 2 jobs in different sectors. I had an offer in 2 weeks and it was the best move I could have made.

    2. Department Director*

      Re-order everything on your resume under each job, so that the things you enjoyed the most are listed first, and the things you didn’t enjoy are listed last or not at all. Look for jobs that speak to the things you enjoy, even if it’s not a straight line from one position to another.

    3. OyHiOh*

      I started my working life in hospitality, hotels specifically. I absolutely loved hospitality, and probably would have stayed there, if not for personal limits on how much I was willing to travel/relocate to get to sustainable and stable salaries.

      Then I got pregnant and dropped out of the workforce entirely. When my oldest entered school, I started picking up some parent volunteer stuff, including running a couple projects that, 10 years on are still on my resume because they are pretty impressive accomplishments. Picked up a couple non profit and government board appointments.

      Got a part time job running a dinner theater’s kitchen. An awesome job, except that I kept getting sick during December madness (two shows running concurrent for three weeks. Fourteen hour Saturdays and twelve hour Sundays were known to happen.)

      Then my spouse died. I decided to try and turn my weird resume into an office/admin job. I was “this close” to having two or three offers to choose from when the pandemic started, and everyone I’d been interviewing with froze their hiring. Finally, in late summer 2020 I landed in the job I’ve got now. I was pretty much just applying for any admin or communications type jobs I could find. The job was billed as an extremely part time admin assistant job. As I’ve acquired skills and confidence (and the org has grown and found new funding sources) my role has morphed into a weird hybrid of executive assistant, office/operations manager, and mass communication.

      The org works in the area of economic development and, if I can stay in this niche for the rest of my working life, I will do so. I find this area of how to develop jobs and growth intellectually challenging, while also easy/”boring” enough that when I go home, I’ve got passion and energy left for my art and theatre projects.

      1. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

        I’m sorry for your loss. I’m so happy to hear you’re doing something you enjoy!

    4. Anon 4 This*

      I quit a job when my boss wouldn’t let me have a day off to attend my brother’s graduation (I worked for this place 6 days a week, and they were closed on Sundays, and I had taken literally one day off in the year prior). I panic-applied to a ton of jobs, and ended up at my university’s library as a student employee.
      My boss at that job literally got hit by a truck, and so they needed two student employees to step up and become student supervisor employees until she finished recovering–I was one of the two, and kept the role until I graduated and could no longer be a student employee.

      A year after graduating (I spent a year abroad on a post-undergrad language scholarship), I needed a job, and a different department in the library was hiring. I got in pretty much on the strength of my prior work as a student supervisor, since everything I had to do for the job, my new boss had to train me in. I was interested in working for the university mainly because I wanted to get a graduate degree in education so I could teach, which I did. I got married, moved to a different state, etc.; I never planned to work in a library again.

      After a few years into teaching, I was desperate to get out, and there was a spot at a local university library that was similar to what I’d done before, but it was a bit of a stretch. I got it, and I’ve been here for nearly a decade, slowly growing my role and doing more and more interesting things with it. There’s not really any room for advancement, but it’s stable, I’m appreciated, and I have some flexibility in my hours and choosing new projects, and I have a good boss and grand boss, all of which matter a lot in terms of job satisfaction. Even though the pay is rather low, it’s better than a lot of similar positions I could apply for that would require a commute.

      1. Monkey Fracas Jr.*

        I love this one, because I also spent a couple years working in libraries and I dearly miss it and would love to do it again!

    5. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My mom was a medical coder and biller all my life, literally, up until her retirement a couple years ago. I could not possibly have been less interested in anything she ever had to say about work growing up. Into my mid-20s, I sorta bopped around a bunch of miscellaneous call center, receptionist, temp type jobs.

      One day I got handed a six month contract doing a document management project for a hospital. The guy teaching me the job abruptly quit at the end of my first week. As it turns out, the documents I was managing were billing forms and I was working with a bunch of coders and specialists. (I called mom and was waxing all ridiculous about how awesome it was, and she was like “….. well, glad you’re finally on board, you know this is the kind of thing I’ve been doing all your life that you thought was dumb and boring?” I apologized.) I got hired on permanently to replace the dude who quit, got my coding certification a year and a half later, and have now been a coder for 18 years. I stayed at that first hospital for a little over eight years, and have been promoted either 3 or 4 times at my current one, depending on how you count them.

    6. MeepMeep02*

      Ooh, ooh, I’ve got one! Here goes.

      Started my career in engineering. I was unlucky enough to get laid off twice in three years, and after the second layoff (a startup that failed in a slow and excruciating way, in which I ended up majorly screwed over), decided I was done with engineering (and with working for other people) and wanted something else to do.

      I started a math tutoring practice. I’d done tutoring before and really enjoyed it. It became my full-time job and I loved it. Then, my mother got sick and I had to move out of state on a moment’s notice. Bye-bye tutoring job.

      I spent a couple of years living with my parents and helping my mother recover (and working for their small business while she couldn’t work). When she got better, I went on a date. The relationship didn’t work out, but while we were talking about work, my date mentioned something about the patent agent exam. I got curious, took the test, and passed.

      I enjoyed the studying process and found that law study was a lot easier for me than engineering was. So, I decided to apply for law school, with the intention of starting a patent law practice after graduation. I did that.

      I graduated from law school, worked at a firm for a year, then started up my own practice doing patents. And then I went on another date. Turns out my date was also a lawyer, but doing family law rather than patents.

      We eventually married and had a kid. During the infant phase, I pretty much dropped my patent practice – I could not maintain it. After I recovered a bit, I joined my spouse’s family law practice, and found I liked it a lot better than patents.

      We now work together doing family law. I’m liking it a lot more than patents – there’s a lot of human drama and a lot of actual help that I can provide to clients who really need it.

      So yeah, I’ve bounced all over the place, and since I’m not dead yet, I’m assuming there will be plenty more bouncing to come. I hope your next bounce brings you to a better place in life.

  47. Dino*

    BEC crackers: any hope of unringing that bell?

    I have a new coworker who is just A Lot. Her voice is loud, her lotion is loud (I can tell when she’s in the building just by walking in the hall outside the office since her lotion smells so strong), and everything is always an emergency and she’ll unload on whomever is in the vicinity. Her A Lot-ness actively hampers my work, and of course her cube is right next to mine. I kinda hate her, but don’t like feeling that way.

    Has anyone successfully reframed their BEC into something more pleasant?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Can you find something you like about her, or some sympathy for her? Maybe give her an unsolicited compliment? Have a pleasant conversation that might help you reframe? It’s OK to just not like people, of course. She sounds like she could just be grating. But if you can reframe it to “oh, poor Forsythia just feels a little insecure and anxious so she sees everything as an emergency” that might help? Just some thoughts.

    2. Neurodivergentsaurus Rex*

      I have never been able to do this, but maybe some people can. Maybe you’re one of those people, if you are good at letting things go in general! I am not.

      Good luck. And maybe get some good headphones. Also, it may be worth talking to her about the lotion. Say you have migraines or allergies. Even if you don’t really, someone probably does and you’d be doing everyone a favor.

    3. Soup of the Day*

      “Her lotion is loud” has me dying. I think my only suggestion is to learn some humanizing things about her that you can remind yourself of in times of particular annoyance. It’s harder to hate someone when you know their mom works at the grocery store and they have the same gardening interests as you.

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      Do you *have* to like her? Sometimes I find it easier to just file someone away as “annoying but harmless” in my head. Once they have that label, it’s easier for my brain to ignore them and forget about what they’re doing. But YMMV.

    5. Choggy*

      Yeah, I have one of these, I don’t know how but I just tune her out, and anytime I have to talk to her, I keep everything bland or work-related only. I’m sure she finds me dull as dish water so doesn’t tend to talk/share with me too much (Yay for me!)

    6. Fluffy Fish*

      Have you given yourself permission to just not like her? It’s normal to not like everyone. It’s not a character flaw or moral failing.

      I have found with people at work that I don’t like, that once I accepted that I didn’t like them and didn’t have to try to, they began taking up much less space in my brain.

      I feel like most people already know this – I am not advocating for expressing dislike. Professionalism is always a requirement.

    7. anonymous73*

      Honestly no. But why do you HAVE to like her? As long as you’re civil and respectful, you’re fine. If she tries to corner you, don’t let her. “Sorry, I’m in a hurry. Can’t chat.” as you walk away.

      My go to is headphones. Not sure if that’s feasible in your role, but blocking out the loud and unpleasant people around you has always helped me. And if it were me, we’d probably have to throw down with her “loud” lotion because it would give an instant migraine.

    8. Generic Name*

      I’ve given myself permission to just….not like people I don’t actually like. I’m not saying I’m rude or a jerk to anyone, but if I just don’t vibe with someone, I don’t force it. I have several coworkers I low-key don’t like, but I’m still friendly and personable to them, and I’m able to have successful coworker relationships with them, but I don’t go out of my way to hang out with them if it’s not work-related.

      1. Rosie*

        I very luckily had a quirky grandma who I adored but would probably have hated to work with. Any chance there is someone if your life who is the least bit like her? You could try to like her through your love of someone else. I know that sounds weird, but, I do this all the time driving. I imagine it was my crazy grandma driving and don’t get upset when people do something stupid.

    9. Stoppin' by to chat*

      There’s always logistical things like wearing headphones, and saying you can’t talk if they’re popping their head up from their cube to spew their “alot-ness” all over the nearest person :) I think it was advice from Carolyn Hax in the WaPo to view them as a comical, not villain per-se, but like an over the top cartoon character. Not take anything they do personally, recognize them as ridiculous, and just keep your distance.

  48. metageeky*

    I’m on the job market and facing the fun old task of being asked to name a salary. I hate this part and worry on so many levels of undercutting myself or ruining an offer. It’s a technology related librarian job at a private college in Philadelphia. I’ve figured the change in cost of living and could say a minimum of that bumped up appropriately. That seems wrong.

    I’ve tried doing research on salaries but the best I get are averages for all library staff. I do know similar salaries of other academic librarians in Philly.

    Advice please.

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      I mentioned it above, but my new rule is: Ask for as much as you can say without laughing.
      It sounds weird, but most everyone has a point where they can’t say a certain salary without giggling. I had to practice it before my new job and it took a lot to say, “I think X is a great place to begin the conversation.” And they took it without a blink.

    2. Esmeralda*

      Use your network — former colleagues working in similar jobs in other large cities, former classmates ditto, maybe any profs from your grad school who seemed reasonably savvy and/or keep up with their students and might know.

      1. metageeky*

        Small library staff that has been great at retention. And I’m exploring at least within the city and getting some numbers, but not the greatest data. I miss public sector at times.

    3. Magnus Archivist*

      I say go with what other academic librarians in the same city are making. But it really sucks that they won’t even give you a range.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’d base it on what other academic librarians in similar roles are making in Philly. I mean, I work in a very high cost of living state, so what other people in my role are making in Nevada is sort of irrelevant to what I should be making, where as people in other libraries in my area are much more likely to show parity. If it is a faculty role, I would also tap into your network and see if anyone knows the faculty pay floor at the Uni which would give you a bottom number to think about.

    5. Stoppin' by to chat*

      Full disclosure I work in the tech industry, but almost 10 years when I had to come up with preferred salary when I was switching employers, I looked at my current salary, and added about $16K (USD). It wasn’t even based on the job market per se, it was more, if I’m going to leave my current job, I want to make at least x. So if you look at your current salary, how much more do you need to be paid to take a new job.

  49. Melanie Cavill*

    A post from earlier this week got me thinking about the generational gap that can (but not always does) explain the how people approach the phone vs. email in their professional lives. I’m a millennial and while I don’t have phone anxiety, I find it to a waste of time in most instances – it requires stopping what you’re doing in real time and peeling through layers of potential small talk. I generally only resort to it when the person I am dealing with cannot send a coherent email to save their lives… which, sadly, is more often than I would hope.

    But I’ve dealt with people who insist on being on hold because they consider their time too valuable to accept leaving a voicemail (??), people who call after every single email sent to them to answer a very brief question (I wanted a paper trail for a reason, gosh darn it!), people who say no, they don’t want to leave a voicemail and then leave me a long and complicated message to relay (I’m not an assistant, a secretary, or a receptionist), and people who are impossible to get off the phone without saying goodbye six times and telling me all about their life when I ask an intended-to-be-perfunctory ‘how are you?’ To me, I find all this quite rude! It’s a deliberate waste of the time of the person you are talking to. But people twenty+ years older than me often tell me I’m the rude one for preferring email/being concise on the phone and they are actually being polite to our colleagues, clients, and customers by having such a phone manner. (I should point out that we operate entirely in a business-to-business model; these people we’re dealing with all have jobs they are trying to do, and dealing with us is a part of their job, just as dealing with them is a part of ours.)

    So that’s my not-at-all-concise thoughts on the matter! I’m curious what other people think about phone manner and phone vs. email at work. Where do you land? If you’re someone who does consider several minutes of small talk on a professional call to be the polite thing to do, I’d love to get your reasoning!

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      It’s such a toss up. I (for the record, Gen-X) go back and forth.
      Yes, there are some folks who I do want that paper trail. I’ll email, they’ll call a reply, and I’ll send a “to recap our call” email to C my own A. And, at the same time, there are times when stuff gets done on rapport. Not schmoozing, not buddy-buddy, but just the friendly development that – for many older people – comes from talking to people rather than emailing. So if there’s anything I can say, it’s that for some, it’s building social currency which you can use at a later date.

      1. Melanie Cavill*

        Oh, that “to recap our call” email is such a good idea, I’m definitely going to steal that from you.

    2. Grace Poole*

      I recently moved offices, and my supervisor told me that I didn’t have to hook up the phone if I didn’t want to, which was surprising and welcome. Most of my job is done online and through email and Slack, so I’m pleased about this. Our voicemail messages are sent to us as an audio file, so all I needed to do was update my outgoing message.

    3. Esmeralda*

      Boomer here. I hate talking on the phone for all the reasons you list. Plus I just don’t like it.

      Small talk — the amount of small talk I’ll put up with depends on our relationship, the purpose of the call, and frankly our relative power. If it’s my dean (also a boomer), I put up with it. Otherwise, I keep it brief. Good phrase for people you don’t want to be brusque with: “Well, I want to mindful of your time, I know you’re busy! ” Allow one more sentence, then “OK then, I’ll get that sent out to you!”

      I’ve also been interrupted by a colleague at the door haha — “Oh, I’m so sorry, my boss is at the door, I’ve *got to* go, thanks so much, I’ll get that sent out to you bye!” And hang up. (no, my boss was not at the door…)

    4. Soup of the Day*

      Ugh. I think it depends a lot on the job, but for me, a random call is a huge annoyance. My job requires a lot of concentration and I have a ton of different tasks that are due to different people. One of those people calling me to discuss their project means breaking my concentration and waiting for me to stop what I’m doing to hunt through my files for the thing they have a question about. It’s a huge waste of my time and it’s never anything as urgent as they think it is.

    5. Squid*

      (Neurodivergent) millennial here. I avoid phones for many reasons: small talk, difficulties with auditory processing, the fact that it takes me out of the zone of whatever I am working on, the lack of preparation I have when calls are spontaneous, the lack of paper trail to CYA or to refer back to later, my mouth can’t move as quickly as my brain does… There are others, but those are the biggest on my mind at the moment.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        I think the small talk is actually the best part. I’ve learned about whole new initiatives and gotten myself invited to meetings based on small talk that went into deeper topics. I’ve also increased my status in a way, when I make someone realize I’m working on higher level stuff than they realized.

        1. Squid*

          Sure, there are definitely upsides and you can use it to network. But 9/10 times that I get a phone call, the small talk is about the weather or my kid (or theirs) or other irrelevant things that I don’t care to discuss in that moment. Tell me what you need and let me get back to what I am working on. I network in other ways.

    6. Joielle*

      The thing that bugs me about phone conversations is when someone calls me with a request, but they haven’t thought it all the way through ahead of time, so I just get a stream of consciousness and I’m the one that has to figure out what they’re really asking and what they need me to do. It feels like they’re forcing me to do the work of synthesizing the request, rather than doing it themselves the way they’d need to if they had to sit down and write it out in a coherent email.

    7. Prospect Gone Bad*

      For me the bigger issue is calls vs. chat.

      I hate chat. People say you can ignore them or that they are quick. I find that I’m already getting interrupted, just as much as I would with a call, and that the interruption last longer than a call. I am tired of waiting for someone to type responses and can’t really go back to do anything else while I wait for the response to come back and I see them typing.

    8. ecnaseener*

      Zillennial here, and I mostly agree with you. I’ll go for the phone call in slightly more scenarios than you though – like for a simple quick question that I expect the person to be able to answer off the top of their head.

      The insistence on having the whole conversation in real time absolutely feels rude to me. When people refuse to give any answer over email to an emailed question, or ask to schedule a call with no information, or leave a voicemail with no information, or call and call with no voicemail, etc. If you truly can’t figure out how to write down your question/answer, have the decency to say so and at least attempt a one-sentence summary.

      Interestingly I used to have terrible phone anxiety but it’s largely gone away since I started work! I still strongly prefer email though.

      1. ecnaseener*

        How timely is this! I had a voicemail waiting for me (from a person who ALWAYS seems to call me during my standing friday meeting), took care of some urgent stuff first, went to play the voicemail just now – and there was no message. They just didn’t hang up before the beep.

        Delightful that I don’t have to return a call. Slightly worrisome that they haven’t called back or emailed in the last hour and a half – are they giving up on asking whatever they had to ask and waiting til it becomes a problem? – but if so that’s their problem.

    9. Lunch Ghost*

      Hm. Millenial here.

      – Quick question/request to coworker: call. But if I was in a place where the culture was more to email, I think I’d adjust all right.
      – Question that is likely to require back-and-forth clarification with coworker: call. This one I’d find hard to adjust. A chain of one-line emails gets annoying to me very quick.
      – Brief question emailed to me: would email back. (I could see calling in response to an email if the answer was more complicated or dependent.)
      – Non-coworker: email unless I was told to call them or I can’t find an email address. Mostly because voicemail is a weakness of mine so if I’m going to rehearse a voicemail before calling and potentially not even use it, why not use that time writing an email?
      – (that being said) Totally with you on the “Why would you rather wait than leave a voicemail?” and “Why would you think leaving a message with a person is any more efficient than leaving a voicemail?” (Especially when I just told you the person is on the phone! They will see your voicemail when it comes in! Do you think that me telling him to call you is more compelling than a voicemail? I am not a Jedi…)

      1. Melanie Cavill*

        “Why would you rather wait than leave a voicemail?”

        To be fair, this was one person who was… unique. But they would call asking for X, and X had a queue system that held up to four callers and then it went directly to voicemail. (X got A LOT of calls.) Rather than leave a voicemail, they would insist on being on hold until I knew X was not on the phone (which… ugh) and then put them through. I hated it and would plainly tell them, ‘I have no control over whether or not you go to voicemail.’ This person was not loved in our office and though I often contacted our engineers for clarification on operational matters, I would refuse to contact this specific engineer and would often make X do it instead.

        “Why would you think leaving a message with a person is any more efficient than leaving a voicemail?”

        Exactly! I can’t even begin to answer this question, but it keeps happening.

    10. eisa*

      It’s not that black and white – each communication medium is suited for a specific purpose / situation.

      “people who call after every single email sent to them to answer a very brief question” that is silly, of course, and inefficient.
      “I wanted a paper trail for a reason, gosh darn it!” I feel you .. I have a colleague from another team, I guess he falls into the millenial age group, who drives me crazy because whenever I write an email to him (often cc’ing other people), he will reply in chat to me, although I’ve told him time and again not to do it.

      In communication between different companies, email is mostly preferred, precisely so that both sides have a paper trail for reference.
      Of course, phone calls do happen and can sometimes be the easier and better way to communicate – one can always follow up in writing : “as per our phone call just now, yadda yadda”
      Voice communication, including a bit of small talk, is also beneficial for relationship building, which is in turn beneficial for cooperation. If there is good-will between your business partner and yourself, the business will run smoother.

      Don’t get me wrong – I am a big fan of emails and I often take quite some effort in composing them – but depending on the situation, sometimes voice calls will be a lot more efficient, achieving in 15 minutes what would have taken a day of mailing back and forth otherwise.

    12. Koala dreams*

      I preferred emails when starting working in offices too, but for every year I dislike them more and more. It’s nice for written communication that’s too important to lose in the mail, but it’s really so time-consuming. Sometimes I think it’s just me, then I read an article about how the key to productivity at work is to only check email N times a day and realize email is a time thief for other people too. It’s nice to get a quick email response of course, but I’m always glad I don’t have to work in an office where you’re logged in to the email all the time, hear chimes whenever you get an email and have to respond immediately. Yet, I don’t have any alternative. It’s getting unusual for people to answer their phone, and voicemail is just awful (it’s not getting better when you get used to it).

    13. Anon for This*

      Boomer here. I also prefer e-mail. There are times when you need a real conversation, but for most things e-mail is better – in large part because you don’t need to be available at the same time as the other party. This has nothing to do with phone manner – I enjoy small talk, and over the years have gotten good at cutting to the chase when someone wants to recount last night’s game or engage in some other long-winded social commentary – it’s not an aversion to the phone. E-mail is just more efficient.

      I think the biggest difference in generations is instant messages vice e-mil, not the phone. I prefer e-mails for most things because I often want the record, and where I work e-mails are automatically retained, but IMs are not. I really hate it when people put web links or other vital information into chat messages that will disappear.

    14. Not So NewReader*

      Boomer here. I am actually okay with the phone overall. But over recent years the voice quality is HORRIBLE. Picture the adults in a Peanuts cartoon.
      So me, with my white hair, sitting and saying “What?” repeatedly appears to be an old person stereotype.

      I have put the phone on speaker so my boss could hear what I hear and she was horrified that I have to work with this as the voice quality is that bad. “You are able to figure out some of what they are saying???”

      It’s mostly cell phone users. I have just put my foot down. If I can’t understand the speaker, I am not going to knock myself out trying to get what they are saying. Interestingly, since I started tolerating less static (literal static) the cell users are quick to remedy. “I will move to a different spot” or “I will call you back in 5” are the types of replies I get.

      I am “fortunate” in that it’s widely known that I work part time. This speeds up my pacing a lot and people know that. For my regular contacts they just email me, knowing I answer as soon as I get back in the office. For people who are infrequent or first time callers, I just explain my time constraints.

      My suggestion here is to develop a response to each of the scenarios you have mentioned. The one scenario that jumped at me was taking long messages for other people. That sounds particularly annoying. I’d find a way of point out to the caller that they are the best person to relate their story, talking to the proper person is only to their advantage as that person will probably have specific questions that only they (the caller) can answer.

      After you have methodically developed go-to solutions for each scenario, the last thing that I do is I remind myself that this is a part of my job and it is not going to go away. In other words, I try to reset my own expectations of everything moving along swiftly. It just doesn’t and that’s reality. With Covid and other things, people seem more frazzled and getting through even mundane stuff seems to be more encumbered than ever. Oddly, the thing to do seems to keep my own stuff calm and organized. People do respond differently when they realize the person they are talking to is on top of their game.

      The other week I had a person (male) who would not stop beating a dead horse. He wanted me to say something like “the sky is teal”, when we all know the sky is blue. I actually told him that I was running out of time to keep discuss the sky color issue and he needed to talk to my boss directly. “But-but-but” And I repeated, I am running out of time that I can dedicate to this discussion. I do not have the authority to change the name of the sky color. You have to discuss this with my boss.” Finally I said, “Sir, this is not my pay grade to handle this question. I have answered your question and we really seem to be talking in circles. I must hang up very soon.” I can say this in my field, because I do not have the quals or authority to go any further. He actually laughed when I said “pay grade” he understood that one.

      Later he emailed apologies to me and my boss when he found out that the sky is actually blue. I can live with this. Somehow I do not think this person will waste my time like that again. It does feel as though it’s a matter of converting people to the concept of being efficient, but conversion rate is one person at a time. It’s part of the job, sigh.

    15. beach read*

      I thought about this a lot after that letter.
      Respectfully, if one person prefers the phone and one person prefers email, shouldn’t there be an equal compromise?
      Why does a preference for email take precedent over a preference for a phone call?
      What if the person who has phone issues is working with someone with email issues?
      I’m sure there are studies that would show an email is more efficient, but does that mean a compromise is not in order?
      Anyway, I found this an interesting discussion.

    16. Sleeping Late Every Day*

      I’m retired now (so yes, a boomer), but when I was working I’d spend as little time on the phone as possible. I had my voicemail set up with a message saying all requests for information needed to be in writing via fax or email or even snail mail in those days, and the message laid out what information I needed for them to include in those written requests. Even today as a person of leisure, I very seldom use the phone, preferring texts or emails.

    17. *daha**

      If you need the paper trail, follow up the received phone call with a short email reply “Thanks for phoning me about this with your answer that the llamas should be dyed plaid. I will move forward with this immediately.” Your sent email is your paper trail.

  50. Frozen*

    I have a question for anyone working at a non-profit community-service type job. I recently started volunteering/consulting for a nonprofit group that is related to my day job. They only meet twice a month for this particular project.

    Anytime I email about a question or give an update on what I’m working on for them, they refuse to answer back by email and put it on the next meeting’s agenda. When I asked about it, the lead said they felt this was a better way to get everyone’s input and not overload everyone else with email. This feels excruciating to me because it stops my progress, but I can’t tell if it is normal or not for the field? Like am I the one with bad work/life balance here?

    1. Just another queer reader*

      Nah, that’s weird.

      I mean, if the questions are kind of complicated, I could see it. But if they’re easily answered over email, this is silly.

    2. MsM*

      “I understand Person has a lot on their plate, but I really need this specific input from them, and I need it by ___ to stay on track with this deadline. If too much email is the concern, would it be easier for me to give them a call?”

      Also, I’m not sure to what extent you actually need to be going through the lead or whoever else is being the roadblock here to get whatever information you need. If you can just reach out yourself, this might be a case of better to ask forgiveness than permission.

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      No that’s just ridiculous. They can answer you AND put it on the agenda if they’re that worried about it. But not answering you is just not acceptable.

    4. J*

      It sounds normal for the last nonprofit I worked for. But it’s also why I don’t work for them anymore. I volunteer now for an org directly adjacent to that org and it would never fly there. Some nonprofits value the process of making decisions over actually making decisions. It’s weird. Sometimes my old org could learn to be more flexible if you explain why you need a decision made a certain way but often we just lost volunteers and staff because they were ridiculous.

    5. Can Can Cannot*

      Ask the question, provide a deadline for a response, and indicate what decision will be made if the deadline isn’t met. E.g., “How many name badges do we need? The deadline for ordering is March 31. We will order 100 badges unless I hear otherwise.”

    6. Not So NewReader*

      This would telegraph to me that there are unseen problems here. I do a LOT of volunteer work just in email. Once in a while a topic hits that is too much for email and we table it for a meeting. But this happens once every few years maybe.

      I guess I would ask at the next meeting if some questions could be handled by email instead of waiting for a meeting. Then explain that your work comes to a screeching halt every time this happens. I will say if you are in a rural area and some people have no or low speed internet that might be a factor.
      Another thing to consider would be asking if committees could work in email and leave out the larger group until it comes to final decisions.

    7. *daha**

      I wonder if there is a history of people squawking about not being informed / consulted. If someone has been burned often for answering simple questions, bouncing it to the agenda might be a survival tactic.

  51. Dunne*

    How do you know if it’s your job that’s making you unhappy? I will start by saying I’m very well-paid for the work I do and enjoy great flexibility/benefits which is primarily what keeps me there. My colleagues are nice although I don’t really interact with them that much (individual contributor working remotely), and I’m not being bullied or harassed. However I really dislike the management culture of the company (I’m in management) and just don’t enjoy working there – my boss (who is the grandboss) rides by the seat of their pants creating constant downward mini-crises that weigh on me. As an individual contributor I have to stay to get the job done so fighting the latest fire eats into my free time with more frequency than I’m comfortable with, and my attempts to raise this constructively are dismissed without discussion. So why not just leave? My worry is…what if this isn’t work related because on paper the perks are pretty good – and I move to another job where I end up as unhappy and unfulfilled? I guess what I’m asking is how to know when it’s time to go and also if there is any saving to be done when every work day feels like a misery, but with a big pay check and good benefits.

    1. ferrina*

      Are these expectations an industry norm, or is it due to your company’s culture? Do you know others in the industry that you can talk to? Even folks at your own workplace who have worked at other companies. I’d start by getting a sense of if this is normal or company dependent.
      From there- well, it’s the Sheelzebub Principle. How long would you be willing to stay knowing that it won’t change?
      From my experience, management will always come with a bit of chaos, but your ability to implement changes will vary based on company. Maybe the perks are good on paper because they know that in actuality the level of stress and poor management really sucks.

    2. Gracely*

      It sounds like it’s a work problem, since it’s work and your boss’s behavior that are causing the problems.

      If you can find a similar job with similar pay/benefits, I’d think it would be worth trying. Worst case, you’re still unhappy and unfulfilled (aka: no change), best case, you end up somewhere that you actually enjoy working.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Some bosses “rule” by chaos. If everything isn’t up in the air and all a mess they feel that employees will not be motivated to work. This could be your boss’ management technique.

      You’re not happy. There is absolutely no harm in reading help wanted ads. So read. See if anything appeals to you. If something jumps at you like “WOW”, then apply. You have nothing to lose.

      I get the big paycheck and good benefits, but if you are at the doctor’s every week with headaches, painful stomach aches, insomnia etc because your boss thrives on chaos then wth good is a big paycheck? This is where this kind of stress can lead to a quality of life issue.

      I don’t see how this can’t be work related- actually it’s terrible boss related. You are free to do as you think is best. Don’t hold yourself back.

    4. Stoppin' by to chat*

      I can relate to the feeling of the job being good on paper FOR SURE! However, I think you answered your own question…fire fighting is exhausting! And the fact that there’s a clear reason for it, and yet doesn’t seem like that will change, is a perfectly reasonable reason to leave a job. OR, if you can accept the fire fighting as the job, and not even expect to have time to work on anything else, then maybe that can help reset your mindset. But this isn’t a “you” problem. You sound burnt out, and with all the fire fighting, I completely get why. Good luck!

  52. Anon Today*

    Just made a new hire and I’m already doubting myself. Ha! I had hoped to be able to hire my top two candidates, but my request got denied.
    One was strongly recommended by others in the org, but I went with another candidate. They have the skills I said I needed when the position posted, but there is guilt about not hiring this other individual (who also would have been stealer!!) and just some worry that I’ll have made the wrong choice and come to regret it. One of those civil servant jobs where it’s hard to get rid of people.

    Anyone else ever struggle with immediate doubts instead of excitement after making a hiring decision?

    1. ferrina*

      Is there any reason for your doubt, or is it risk aversion? I’m usually nervous about my candidates (there’s only been a couple that I’ve been confident on- and one of those ended up being not so great in the long run). There’s always a risk, but it’s a calculated risk you need to make.

    2. just another bureaucrat*

      YES!

      Hired someone, knew with total certainty she was the right person. No one else even held a candle.

      Then like before we’d moved her into the role I started having giant doubts and worries.

      She was amazing, the perfect person for the role. It took about 3 months for her to settle into it, but it was likely one of the best decisions I’ve made in the last few years.

      I’d say ask yourself if you are a worrier in general. if you are it’s likely to play a big role here. I just second guess everything, but somehow I never see it when I’m inside that second guessing.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      When I’ve had two very strong candidates, it was always harder, because I always wonder, “What if I should have gone with the other person?” And then I fret about it.

    4. WellRed*

      Are you second guessing yourself because you went in a different direction than the group?

    5. Fikly*

      If you can, reframe this. You’re telling yourself there is only one correct decision on who to hire. This is like when people are rejected for a role and then take that to be a judgement on their ability to do the job, but by the time you are deep in the process, that’s almost never the case.

      Almost all of the time, there is one job opening, and many, many people who would be excellent at it, but only one job opening. Almost certainly, either of your top two candidates would be amazing. You chose one, because in the end, you could only choose one. There wasn’t a wrong choice.

    6. Anon Today*

      Thank you for these responses!
      They really all helped. I am probably overthinking for multiple reasons, and really need to relax, reframe as Fikly said, and just be excited that my team is not going to be short staffed in a few weeks. Truly all the candidates we interviewed could do the job and this is the one I chose, that my team chose.
      Have a great weekend!

  53. Lemon*

    Let’s talk workplace style! I am a mid-twenties woman who’s working at a job with a business casual dress code for the first time (I have held jobs before this one, but the dress code there was ‘anything goes’). While I don’t want to be known for my clothes over my competence, I do enjoy dressing up and would prefer to do as much as I can in a professional environment.

    In my personal life, I’m very much a maximalist. I favour bright colours and bold prints, sometimes together :D For my work wardrobe, I’ve decided to stick to this formula: jewel-toned top, neutral coloured trousers + bag + shoes (ideally all the same colour), and statement earrings. Does anyone else do this? I’d love to hear your outfit formulae if you also have something similar!

    Any advice or personal stories around navigating work wardrobes as an early-career woman are appreciated as well. Happy weekend!

    1. OyHiOh*

      Mine is black/grey/dark brown slacks paired with green/blue/burgundy top plus neutral blazer, neutral shoes, and sometimes a bag or scarf. I rarely wear jewelry.

      I’ve ended up with a work palette that I can mix and match. I’m not really a morning person so, the less effort I have to put into what to wear, the better!

      You sound like you are on the right track in terms of finding a style that works for you, and shows a little of your personality. You might want to add a few top layer pieces – open blazers or cardigans in neutrals to go with your slacks but you’ve got good awareness of what works for you and your office environment.

    2. londonedit*

      My usual office outfit is a patterned midi dress with smart trainers, but my other option (more usually in the spring/autumn) is smart jeans, a plain t-shirt (tucked into the jeans), a statement necklace and a blazer.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      I’ve been wfh and living in yoga pants for the past 2 years, but when I have to go in/used to go in I tended to wear a black high-waisted pencil skirt and then a jewel-toned top. I’m not a maximalist but jewel-tones look great on me and the pencil skirt was incredibly flattering, and it could be styled more formally or more casually depending on the need. Plus it worked with all seasons! In the summer it worked with a flowy blouse and flats or pumps, in the winter it worked with a turtleneck, sweater, or blazer and tights and boots. It was super cute, easy, and comfortable but also looked very well put together and professional.

      I have more than one type of skirt of course and I’m also a huge fan of dresses (especially in hotter weather), but pencil skirt + blouse was my go-to.

    4. ThatGirl*

      My workplace is pretty casual, but I do have a formula — dark jeans (bootcut or skinny), a plain t-shirt or patterned top, and a cardigan (in cooler weather), plus accessories, which I vary up. Statement necklace or big earrings, sometimes a scarf, etc. I have a few pairs of shoes I rotate between seasonally but don’t purposely coordinate my bag and shoes. It just makes it so much easier to get dressed in the morning.

    5. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      When I go in-office (not often, 4-6 times a year), my work wardrobe is a patterned a-line ankle length skirt, matching solid-colored top, and jacket.

      If I’m meeting with people at or around my level and in my department, I’m willing to go brighter and a little goofier with the patterning on the skirt (my favorite is red, orange and teal paisley – I also love bright colors and bold prints), the solid-colored top will be a nice v-necked t-shirt, and the jacket may be denim.

      If I’m meeting with folks outside my department or higher up the food chain than about my grandboss, I keep the skirt pattern more sedate, the top will be a proper shell, and the jacket will be an actual blazer.

      (Also, if I’m meeting with just my close coworkers, my shoes may be the same style but two different colors to match the paint-explosion skirt. :P )

    6. Joielle*

      I definitely dress up at work a bit more than most people, but it’s what I prefer. And I’ve never heard any negative comments (if anything, it’s “you always look so put together!”). My style tends more towards “corporate goth” so my go-to outfit formula is black high waisted pencil skirt, black blouse or sweater, dark patterned blazer, statement jewelry. I find that if my clothes are fairly conservative, I can push it a bit with my spiderweb/ouija planchette/animal skull jewelry and it doesn’t come across as overly weird.

    7. Generic Name*

      I’m much older than you (early forties), but for a long time, my formula was: skinny jeans, cute sleeveless blouse, cardigan, ballet flats. Now that combination feels hopelessly outdated and OLD. I’m really enjoying the new jean silhouettes out there, but I’ve also put on some weight, so I’m trying to figure out what is flattering while getting used to the current clothing style, if that makes sense. I am highly amused that the stylish jeans the girls wear at my son’s high school are what we gen X-ers called “mom jeans” back in the day. Lately, I’ve been wearing dresses more. I used to worry I looked “too girly” (I’m in a male-dominated field), but now I say “eff it”. I’ve also stopped dying my hair to let the grey show. I want to cultivate a “I’m too old for your shit” vibe. :D

    8. Ann Perkins*

      Mid-30s here and my office is also business casual. My basic formula is similar, typically slim dress pants with a nice top, Rothy’s points, and jewelry depends on whether I’m wearing my hair up or down. I try to have most of my wardrobe be solids so that it’s easy to mix and match. I’m about to have my third kid so my wardrobe has to be practical and this fits the bill. Once I’m done pumping I’ll likely get some new dresses.

    9. Lady Danbury*

      About 5 years ago, I created a capsule wardrobe for work, which consisted of neutrals in grey, navy and black, with jewel tone accents. Sticking to a limited color palette made it so much easier to get dressed because it was easier to mix and match. Even though I rarely mixed navy and black (bc it’s hard to make it look intentional vs she got dressed in the dark), they both went with the grey. My outfit formula tended to be dress or trousers/skirt and blouse with a topper (blazer, jacket or cardigan). The topper helps to finish the look and tone down bright colors. I wouldn’t limit certain colors to certain pieces so I had dresses, cardigans, etc in a variety of colors and even patterns. Having a mix of neutrals and color allowed me to play up or tone down the other pieces as necessary.

      Putting Me Together is a great blog for outfit formulas and the little finishing touches that help everything look more polished.

  54. Carmen San Diego*

    Does anyone have any advice on dealing with micromanagement?

    I’m a director with a boss that reports to the CEO in a health tech company of 200 people. I’m new in role and a completely new division. There was absolutely nothing created for the unit so I have been working on that. I have my first major project and there are some organizational politics at play. I mentioned this to my boss and her reaction was to take over a meeting that I was in and manage it herself. I’ve never dealt with micromanagement. Most start ups, no one has time for that. Any advice on how to address it with her next week?

    1. ferrina*

      I wouldn’t focus on the micromanagement, but rather how you can use your boss to effectively manage this project.
      I’ve been in the same position as your boss- I had an employee who was taking on work that was bigger than she had done before and getting wrapped up in politics for the first time. You bet I kept a close eye on that project. Your manager doesn’t yet know how good you are at playing politics (which is usually a whole different skill than your other job). She wants to protect you and the project, and may choose to play Better Safe Than Sorry and step in too early.

      What can you do? First, communicate. Communicate often and be detailed about what happened and what you’re planning to do. Tell your manager that you are doing this- “I know that there’s some interesting politics, so I’m going to keep you in the loop just in case something comes up. Do you want to do weekly meetings to touch base on this?” The bonus to you is that your boss has access to political information you don’t- she may be able to flag something that you have no way of realizing is an issue.
      Second, ask your boss for her knowledge! “Hey, it sounds like I’m going to need to loop in Jill for this project. Have you worked with her before? Anything I should know?” It helps you get up to speed with the politics and shows your boss that you are diligent about gathering the information you need (including political info)
      Finally, tell your boss what you are going to do before you do it. This will build trust and help your boss flag issues before they come up. It also lets your boss keep an eye on the project without actually needing to take over anything.
      Unless your boss is a serial micromanager (which it doesn’t sound like she is) this should really help. In my experience, my DR did not communicate with me (I guess she wanted to show me she could do it without me, so she kept me out of the loop?) This meant I couldn’t warn her about a prickly VP, and she unwittingly started stepping on his toes. I ended up needing to backpedal hard so the VP didn’t pull the plug on the project (we needed to fly under his radar to get the work done- there was a lot of politics). My DR was mad at me for stepping in, but if I hadn’t, that whole program would have lost support and there wouldn’t be any future projects for either of us to lead. She couldn’t see it from her role, but I was in the higher level meetings and knew the players much better (that particular program had been defunded several times in the past, and I had almost built back enough support to get future funding)

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        “First, communicate. Communicate often and be detailed about what happened and what you’re planning to do”

        So basic but people forget this. You need to proactively provide information at times. I’ve dealt with more junior staff members talking about being micromanaged in a round about way. When I in turn approach their managers in a round about way, I then find that they are in the dark on a huge amount of stuff.

        I’m not forgiving micromanaging per se but sometimes there is a root cause

    2. eisa*

      Actually, the situation you describe does not sound like micromanagement to me.

      Micromanagement would be someone who involves themself too much in the nitty-gritty details of their reports’ daily tasks, wants twice-daily updates, etc.
      “There are some organizational politics at play. I mentioned this to my boss and she took over a meeting that I was in and managed it herself.”
      You say you were “in” the meeting vs. having set it up / moderated it, so your role was not really downgraded, was it ?
      I’m guessing her aim was to go to bat for you and lend you her support against the organizational politics. A boss who will tank for her people is a good boss :-)
      (tank, as in the RPG role)
      There is no need to feel slighted or micromanaged by this single incident.
      You can tell her “I appreciate that you stepped in, but I think I’ve got it covered from here. I will keep you updated if I run into any issues.”

      1. Carmen SanDiego*

        This is great advice.

        I should have been more specific. I was leading a meeting and she kept cutting me off and essentially took over. I will nicely ask her when we speak next week if there is something I could have done differently.

  55. uninspired*

    I’m new to management. I’m miserable. I feel incompetent and like I’m tripping over errors I’ve made in my own work constantly, and then to round it off I feel like a terrible manager who’s failing their reports. I’ve cried in my office so many times this year that my husband is worried for my health and I’m afraid I’m going to get fired. I don’t know what to do. I’ve been with this company nearly 8 years in a non manager position.

    1. ferrina*

      Can you go back to your old job as an individual contributor? I’m sure there are a number of things that you could do to help yourself be/feel like a better manager, but it sounds like you don’t even want to be a manager. Could you go to your boss and say something like “I’ve realized that being a manager just is not for me. I’m much happier being able to focus on [OTHER THINGS]. Would I be able to move back to a role like that?
      Go to a job that makes you happy.

    2. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I am only about five years in so want to sympathize and offer advice. Can you elaborate at the specific things you are failing at or think you are? I think we can give better feedback if there are specific areas you feel weaker at.

      I will say that I often feel like I am doing bad at some areas, I think it comes to the area. I go through phases where I focus on business growth, time where I focus on training, times where I have to do my own individual contributor work, times when I need to focus on employees. Then there are some things that employees are aggrieved about that I can’t change. I also get asked to push back on things and they never realize how much easier it is to say you would push back on another department than actually doing it.

      I found I can’t realistically do all of these at once. I can be a robot and schedule one hours a day for each area but it never works. I really need longer chunks of time to delve into each one for real, which usually means I neglect some areas to focus on others.

    3. Stoppin' by to chat*

      First, it’s okay to acknowledge that you do not want to be a manager. I had a stint as a manager, but am now only interested in being an IC for the rest of my career. If you can get connect with a mentor, especially another manager, you may be able to get through the rough patch. But managing and being an IC are VERY different. If may be managing is not the right fit for you (which is okay!), OR it may be that it is the right fit, but you just need to give yourself grace to switch to a managing mindset (delivery through your directs). But again, being miserable is a good sign that this just isn’t the right fit, and now you know and can look for IC work again.

  56. gutted*

    I moved cities for a higher paying job in my field five years ago. From the moment I started, a senior member of the team targeted me for harassment and was supported by our supervisor.
    She was supposed to help workers in my position to grow, but instead she nit-picked at everything I did, made comments about my background/assumptions about my race, took every opportunity to down-play my achievements, and tried to frame things as me hating her because she was an older worker.

    I have always been careful about my work. I ask colleagues for clarification when needed. I check similar documents from past years. I make notations on issues I notice and make suggestions for improvements based on my experience. My yearly meetings with my supervisor were her almost yelling at me for not being a copy of the senior member, being told that I was a problem employee, and being accused of things I’d never done (like skipping out on work). I tried to show my willingness to be something, I don’t know what, and I extended an invitation to the senior member for a work lunch. She literally told me that I wasn’t cut out for the job; that it seemed like I didn’t read; and that if I wanted to improve, I first needed to recognize that she was better at the job than me and humble myself.

    Everyone else in my department has praised my work, my work ethic, my professionalism, and more.
    Despite that, I just found out that my office wasn’t going to renew my work contract. The senior member has been there for about two decades and made it a point to have our supervisors give me low evaluations for the five years I was there. Even though myself and the senior member are only contract workers, and the ultimate decision is left to the supervisor and department director, the senior member is by far the oldest, and longest serving member of that department.

    I’m now rushing to find some kind of job and I just feel a lot of emotions. But mainly, why do people like this exist? I want to quietly work my little job, do the best I can, collect my little pay, make pleasantries, and go home. I’m not interested in competing with people or having them project their feelings on me.

    This isn’t the first time I’ve run into this kind of person. When I encounter them, I try to allow them their space. I just make myself small, prioritize their conversations and opinions and so on. But they still decide to unleash their fury on me. I should add that I’m a pretty quiet person until I get to know people better. I don’t brag about things I’ve done (because I am not very interesting) and I don’t try to challenge these people intellectually. I also don’t try to go after their jobs. I don’t think I’m a very threatening person?

    Have any of you been in a similar situation at work?
    Why does it seem as if the only solution is for someone like me to quit?

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      Your manager isn’t great because the feedback is all over the place. You not being like a senior member is totally different than not being cut out for the job.

      The bully type doesn’t exist at every job.

      I hate to be the “just switch jobs” person but 5 years of this?

      1. gutted*

        I’ve been helping my family financially for years and I really need work. I’ve put up with similar types and unfortunately, I’ve been a target in almost all of my past jobs.
        I know the saying goes, “If you smell poo wherever you go, check your shoes,” but I am highly confident it’s not me being incompetent in these cases and more to do with others having something on their side they are taking out on me.
        Other friends have assured me that a new place will be different, but I switched jobs to get away from the same kind of treatment, albeit not as laser focused on me.

    2. Dino*

      Sometimes making yourself small just makes them thrash you harder. If you put up the boundary what you aren’t willing to accept early on, many of those kinds of people will move onto an easier target or will even come to treat you better for having stood up to them. It’s a messed up way to be, but I’ve found it to be common.

      1. gutted*

        When I joined, the senior member was going at it with another member who did push back. But, that person left and I assume it was because our supervisor decided to side with the senior member and give the other member bad reviews.
        In fact, the first project of mine she reviewed, she she made remarks on things that she was absolutely wrong about. I quietly spoke with our supervisor to ask how they wanted to proceed, so as not to embarrass the senior member.

        I can’t afford to keep changing jobs because someone is insecure around quiet people or they don’t like the (high) quality of my work.

        1. Polopoly*

          No advice, just empathy. Only thing I can think of is to not make it appear like you crave their approval (even tho keeping your job requires it). If they’re gonna bully you out, they will regardless. And document everything – praise from your customers/ peers, comments from your bully, etc in case you need it.

    3. Stoppin' by to chat*

      First of all…you are interesting! You sound like someone I would love to work with. You sound like an empath actually, which is such a wonderful trait. But agreed with others here…sounds like time to leave. You clearly have a strong work ethic, and this employer is not deserving of you. Also, the bully sounds insecure, obnoxious, and of course they’re going to act awful…they’ve been getting away with it for YEARS!

  58. Nicki Name*

    Has anyone here retired from remote work, or do you know someone who has?

    I was thinking about an AAM letter a while back, where the OP was worried about staying active and connected in retirement, and I think I recall that retirees in the comments said that for the first month you don’t want to do *anything*, and then after that you’re ready to start rejoining society.

    Having gone though the switch from a 5-day commute to likely permanent WFH a couple years ago, I’m wondering if this happens when you’ve been working remotely, or if it’s just the rebound from having a commute. Can anyone speak to this?

    (I’m 20+ years from retirement myself, barring a huge lottery win, but the world is full of YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT RETIREMENT messages for people my age, so… I’m thinking about it!)

    1. ArtK*

      I’m very interested in the replies to this! I’ve been WFH for 20+ years and am close to retirement. It’s an interesting question; since we don’t have the close connections fostered by being in an office, have we already made the outside connections to replace those?

    2. Admin of Sys*

      My Mom just retired (for the 4th time) from her web design job, having not had a local office for 10ish years. There was definitely a ‘I am never touching a computer again for this’ attitude for at least a few weeks, and a general feeling of ‘I get to /relax/ finally.’ But there wasn’t any real isolation? Mind you, she’s got a really strong social network though, and a volunteer ‘job’ that is a solid 20hrs a week sometimes. From what she’s said, the important thing is to have things that take you out of the house and make you accountable to other people occasionally – so volunteer, hobby groups, etc.

    3. Raboot*

      Sort of from the opposite side, I just started a remote job 3 months after leaving my last job. I still felt like my brain was about to leak out of my ears yesterday. And it’s not a very demanding job! But there is a very big difference between “no work” and “work” even if you’re wfh.

  59. California Squirrel*

    Ugh, I was supposed to attend an in-person work meeting tonight with a few (all vaccinated) people, and one of them just tested positive for covid and has to attend virtually. Everyone seems to think now we should switch to all-virtual–except the group leader says we should still try to meet in person. Any advice for language to push back on this? I’m the least senior person attending this meeting.

    1. Zephy*

      I think the COVID+ attendee will have a better time if the meeting is remote for everyone – it’s hard enough to hear people talking over each other when they’re on separate microphones, but God help the one person calling in to an otherwise-in-person meeting trying to hear anything if more than one person is talking at once.

      1. ArtK*

        I absolutely agree. I was on a call not too long ago with about 15 people in a conference room and another 20+ remote. It was nearly impossible to get a word in edgewise. The worst part was when the people in the room kept having side conversations; that made it very hard to hear what was going on. Sadly, the moderator did nothing to rein that stuff in.

      2. California Squirrel*

        That’s my take too–it seems like maybe someone nudged the holdout privately, because they have said we can do virtual. It’s so annoying to be on Zoom with other people gathered in a room!

  60. SOUPervisor*

    I could use some advice/scripts for when I give my notice.

    I’ve been with this company for 6 years, fairly small (~30 employees), definite “we’re a family” vibes, issues with workload/lack of procedures/poor communication from upper management, but I really like my team and immediate supervisor. There have been some issues in the past that I’ve almost quit over but there’s nothing specific wrong right now, I’m just extremely burned out. I’m not leaving for another job, I’m just quitting. Since there’s no financial concern (my partner has said she’s willing to support me and is frankly delighted that I’m leaving a job that has been making me miserable for a while) I’m planning to take a couple months before job hunting and I have no idea right now what sort of job I’ll be looking for.

    I don’t want to burn bridges and I don’t want to lie and I don’t really want to say I’m on the verge of collapse. So, I’m going to email my short official notice and I’m prepared to refuse to be persuaded back, but I need some professional-sounding scripts for what to tell coworkers.

    1. Jean*

      “I’m moving on to other opportunities.” That’s all you really need to say. If someone presses you for specifics that you aren’t comfortable giving, it’s OK to say you prefer to keep that info private. Good/reasonable people will understand and wish you luck.

    2. Stoppin' by to chat*

      It’s fine to tell people that you’ll miss them, enjoyed the opportunity to work with them, and maybe even include your LinkedIn and/or personal email to keep in touch. I like the verbiage already suggested, but anything around ready for a change, have some personal things to focus on, etc. I was very much part of an “we’re like family” dept when I left a job almost 10 years ago, and boy did I feel guilty. But if there weren’t problems with the job itself, I wouldn’t have been open to leaving. And you listed some pretty significant problems! Just keep it light, keep saying the same thing again and again, and maybe suggest connecting on LinkedIn. That’s a good way to change the conversation. Good luck recovering from the burn out!

  61. ArtK*

    A bit of a grump here. I’m *very* late career in software and looking for something new. I’ve had a few interviews but everybody wants me to take a coding test. The last time I did that was 30 years ago! It’s almost insulting that they insist on it; I’ve written 10s of thousands of lines of code. Besides the general “why are you asking me to do this,” many of them are done live with someone watching. I assume that’s to prevent cheating but I absolutely *HATE* having people watch me code. I work fast but will often change my mind while coding and backtrack.

    1. Princess xena*

      I feel your frustration. When I onboarded at my current job it was with a mixed group of brand new interns and people with two internships and most of a CPA license under their belt, and as I was on the more senior end of that scale sitting through some of the simpler things was super frustrating.

      That said…experience does not always translate to good skills. I don’t think your interviewers are trying to humiliate you or imply that you’re incompetent – they’re trying to get a good feel for your skill level and strengths, and watching 30 minutes of coding will probably tell them a lot more about that than 4 hours of verbal interviewing.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I once got 15min into a coding test, commented out everything I had written, and restarted. My watcher was just sitting at the table next to me so I said something about having a new idea and needing to not just commit to the first working way but go for the most efficient and effective way. Interviewer liked that. If you can just pretend they are not there. No one thinks coders write everything down once and perfect. Showing your editing skills are just as important.

    3. LDN Layabout*

      If you’re coming in as an individual contributor vs. management, it makes sense to make everyone do the coding test, even the people who have been coding for years. You’d be surprised how many people can coast in their careers or who will gloss over which languages/systems they have the most experience in.

    4. E*

      I’m a mid-career software developer and I somewhat regularly interview new developers of senior individual contributor positions. We do include a live coding interview as one of our interviews with candidates and find that it’s very useful for us to evaluate candidates. It’s done live not just b/c of cheating, but b/c we want to interact with the candidate during it. We’re not just looking at coding skills and correctness of a solution, but also evaluating how the candidate asks questions (gathers requirements), how they communicate their thought processes, if they’re using up to date features of the programming language, etc. Backtracking is 100% fine, but we’d want to hear you talk through why. We ask them to talk through the time complexity of various solutions, etc. Though the exercises should not be (at all) difficult for a veteran programmer, a surprising number of people with years of experience on their resumes struggle with them, and they are a valuable weed-out tool for us. We also need to make our phone screens better so those candidates don’t make it to the coding interview, but that’s a different story.

  62. JustaTech*

    Question/opinion request: Has anyone done an Angela Duckworth “grit” workshop for work? How did it go? Was it useful?
    I’ve got one next week that I’m already feeling pretty “meh” on, but at least some of that is having to essentially miss a working day, and some of it is my cynicism from growing up with a management consultant that makes me skeptical of all “business workshops”. So I’m hoping someone has done this and had a good time/found it useful?

      1. Coast East*

        Sorry the internet ate my comment.
        My English course dedicated 2 weeks to her grit Ted talk. Personally, I found it….not really useful because it harped on resilience and all those other buzz words that businesses like to use (and I’ve seen grit and resilience used as a way to put the onus on employees dealing with crap rather than the employer improving its treatment of people). However, when we dived more into the “growth mindset” work that inspired Duckworth, I found it to be more useful.

        1. JustaTech*

          Yeah, that was my feeling too. I think focusing on the “growth mindset” will be the most productive/least snarky approach.
          Thanks!

  63. Aggresuko*

    I’m tired of people being angry with me and wanting to rip me a new asshole at work. Right now two people are out for my blood. One of them wants a very expensive service done for them right now but doesn’t want to pay for it, and I am not a manager and I don’t get to grant freebies for that. The other one needs proof of something RIGHT NOW and frankly, nobody in the 70’s documented it at the time so I can’t prove it. Everyone is going to hound the shit out of me until I give in.

    You know what? I don’t want power and authority in a job. I don’t get to grant freebies and I don’t want to get in trouble for saying someone did X when X is literally not listed in their paperwork. This woman did X before I was even BORN, I can’t PROVE it. But since everyone has my name, they are going to hound the shit out of me :(

    I HATE HELPING PEOPLE FOR A LIVING SO MUCH.

    At least my computer started working again the later half of this week, it was so broken the first half of it. And only 7 more hours of hell to go today.

    1. DocGlobe*

      Reply as follows: “Given your prior request and refusal to follow our protocols (re. records unavailable/pricing guidelines) your inquiry shall be send to another office”. Copy to direct report/ big boss/ HR.

    2. the cat's ass*

      OMG, you just saw two of my least favorite patients today, didn’t you? I’m so sorry. I get my boss involved in that level of unpleasantness. And sometimes billing, too.

      1. Sleeping Late Every Day*

        Yep. My department head always told me I wasn’t paid enough to have to deal with certain types of people, and to transfer those calls to him. Actually, he enjoyed messing with their heads.

  64. Alice*

    Advice for joining the workforce at 40 with little to no work experience?

    Someone I know had issues in their youth (lots of physical and mental health crises) but they finally got better, went back to school, and will graduate in the spring. They are now planning to look for a job and I’m thrilled for them but I’m concerned it will be hard as someone who is 15 or 20 years older than new graduates. They have very little work experience aside from the occasional temporary retail job. They are clever and patient and willing to learn but I’m afraid most managers will see their age and lack of experience and not even give them a chance.

    I want to help this person as much as I can in their job search (they asked me for advice) but my path was the usual, degree in my early 20s then internship then job. Does anyone have a success story of joining the workforce much later than usual? Any advice very welcome!

    1. NonProfit Life*

      I don’t see how it would be any different than a young(?) person seeking a job, other than they may have to get used to working with people younger than them. Everyone starts from somewhere.

      If they’re being discriminated based on age, that’s illegal.

    2. ThinkQuicker*

      I think if they leave off the dates of any high school education and just include recent, relevant work experience their CV won’t look that different from any other recent graduate.

      In some ways a more mature candidate can be a benefit – I know some of the best people I’ve worked with are those who came to their professional career later in life. They have more life experience, are more used to problem-solving by themselves without hand-holding, and often bring a new perspective based on a less traditional route.

      1. Alice*

        Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately they don’t have recent or relevant experience, think “last worked in Nov-Dec 2017 as a seasonal gift wrapper” but they want to apply for entry level programmer jobs. They haven’t had a job in the past 4 or 5 years as they were focusing on school, and listing the dates of their degree is a problem in and of itself because they’ve been taking courses on and off for the past 10+ years (so it would be a lie to list “went to X school 2018-2022”, even though they were only able to truly focus on their degree for that period).

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          Your friend may want to look at resources designed for women who had children early and didn’t go to college until later in life.
          One thing I think I have seen is that you would put down the date you graduated without the years of attendance

    3. irene adler*

      Networking may be the way to go here.
      The more people who know your friend the less likely they are to dismiss them when hiring.

      Are there any professional organizations pertaining to the industry your friend will be working in? Might start there. Ask about: networking opportunities, mentoring, resume or job tips, social events, introductions to folks ‘in the industry’ who know people, etc. (the professional org I belong to – ASQ- is specifically targeting professionals with 0-3 years experience for mentoring and programs designed just for them. Maybe you can find similar? )
      Are there temp agencies that have jobs that your friend is interested in -that pertain to the education achieved? IF so, then maybe working temp or contract jobs would garner work experience and become a known quantity at many companies.

      Does the institution where your friend graduated have a way for new grads to get an internship? Or, can your friend apply to internship positions? I’ve seen many large companies run ads looking to hire summer interns. Sure, that’s a few months from now. But that could be away to ‘break into’ the industry, make a few connections, gain some experience, etc.

    4. Policy Wonk*

      Government has a hard time attracting IT people because we don’t pay very well compared to the private sector. Your friend should try there- with the usual caveat about the painfully slow hiring process. I’ve got one success story – I was that a new employee who came to us through a program for new grads was in his 40s. But he’s a great employee! and we are lucky to have him. (Not in IT, though. WMMV)

      1. Alice*

        Thank you, helpful advice from everyone. I’ll pass along all these suggestions. Right now they would just like to get their foot in the door so internships, temp agencies, public sector, etc are all good options.

        The only thing I’m a bit wary of is going through their alma mater to look for an internship, they do offer career advice for new grads but the advice I received was very counterproductive. In my case they had me write a 7 page resume (for a new graduate!!) and apply to all sorts of internships in fields I was not interested in. However applying on their own to summer internships is definitely a good option. Again thanks!

  65. NonProfit Life*

    Are regular 1-1’s with your direct managers a norm?

    I’ve been at my current workplace for almost 2 years and have never had regular 1-1’s with my manager until my yearly evaluation. I recall doing first month check in and a three month check in at the start of my job and that was it.

    For managers who conduct 1-1’s or for those who are in them, do you find them beneficial? Fruitful? Should I initiate them?

    I don’t know what exactly I would want from 1-1’s but I feel like I would appreciate at least a monthly check-in where we can talk through how I’m currently feeling about my workload and directions of where I’m going.

    1. No Tribble At All*

      I’m still decently early career, and yeah, I like to have check-ins and dedicated conversations with my manager about once every two weeks. If you’re the direct report, I think you can ask to schedule them, especially if it’s a new manager/employee relationship. “Level of workload & direction of efforts” are both good topics.

    2. Joielle*

      I’ve never had regular 1-1s, but if I wanted them I’m sure my manager would be willing to schedule them. My managers have always been very open to ad hoc questions and discussion so I guess I’ve never felt like I needed a regular meeting since I would just bring up questions/concerns whenever. But I think it would be perfectly reasonable to ask for a monthly check in if you’d rather have a more structured avenue for general topics like you describe!

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      With the caveat that my team is super low-maintenance — I started out with monthly 1:1s, and they were usually about five minutes of actual work related discussion and 10-25 minutes of random chatting. (Or less – if they don’t want to chat, I’m not gonna sit on them and make them stay, they get the same allotment of non-productive time for the meeting either way.) After about six months, I offered them the opportunity to drop them back to every other month if they wanted to, and 8 of the 10 said “Every other month is fine, I know where to find you if I need something in between,” so now most of them are on every other month schedules alternating, and the other two are still every month.

      But ours is basically a production environment, and they are pretty happy to log on, make their daily allotment of widgets, and log off, they don’t have complex projects or whatnot that they’re working on or needing assistance with.

    4. JustaTech*

      Yup, I have a 15 minute 1-on-1 with my boss (direct manager) every week. We go over the experiments or analysis for the week, talk about upcoming projects, a little “how was your weekend”, that kind of stuff.
      Occasionally we’ll talk longer about big-picture stuff or how to deal with stuff from other departments/projects.

      I like that my boss knows what I’m doing all the time. I do wish we did a little more career development stuff.

    5. Dragonfly7*

      I only have 2-3 per year and actually wish I had them more often. My manager is very hands off, which is generally okay, but 1) They routinely fail to communicate changes to the entire team, relying only on word of mouth (I’ve been asking for changes to this for 5-6 years, but no luck), and 2) I split my time between public-facing and other tasks. I’m not sure they could tell someone what I do during my not public-facing time.

    6. Wordybird*

      No, I don’t have regular 1-1s with my supervisor. We generally communicate via Slack but we can go days at a time without speaking at all. I’m assigned work via our project management software or via a weekly meeting we have with a couple other team members. Since I’m the only person in the organization that does the work I do and the work we do follows a certain process, I know what I need to do and when I need to do it.

      I don’t see a clear path for me to move upwards in the company and don’t necessarily want to manage anyone so it would be helpful to know if my supervisor has a long-term plan for me and what that entails but they generally operate on a need-to-know basis so I rarely have much notice before something happens (like when I was promoted with absolutely no idea that possibility was even on the table).

      I hate meetings so it’s fine… for now.

  66. ThinkQuicker*

    Does anyone have advice about how to hold people to account on points that historically have been allowed to slide?

    Say Teapot Regulation has meant that technically every teapot that gets produced needs a quality assurance checklist to be completed on it before it goes out the door. Regulation specifies what the checklist looks like and who has to complete (the person making the teapot). Historically, as a company we’ve never actually checked whether this gets done and because the checklists are time-consuming (and takes people away from actually making teapots which is where they earn their commission). Management have agreed we need to get better about completing the checklists. Regulatory oversight is increasing and we can’t risk failing an audit.

    But how do we go about changing the culture? People’s production targets aren’t going to go down – that income is what keeps the lights on. We’re essentially just adding a time-consuming task onto people’s to do lists and telling them to find time to do it without dropping productivity. Management’s stance is well technically this is something they should all have been doing anyway so no one can complain. But obviously historically we’ve not treated it like a job duty so now it will essentially be an additional one (if that makes sense?).

    Anyone got any advice?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I actually really appreciate this framing. I’m not sure I have advice but I’ve been struggling with the same thing. I have one person in particular who neeeeeever does her admin duties, and it really would make her life easier if she did for a variety of specific reasons. But it probably feels to her like an extra task because she’s always been allowed to put it off. That’s really helpful as I think of how to approach the problem, and I am interested to hear what others have to say.

    2. Joielle*

      Idk, I kind of agree with management’s stance? I’d present it like, regulatory oversight is increasing recently so we’re going to be doing more spot checks (or whatever) to make sure the quality assurance checklists are being completed correctly (subtext: which you have of course been completing all along). I feel like it would be hard for people to push back, they’d be saying they haven’t been doing an important part of their job and want to keep not doing it. To me that’s not reasonable.

      Are there any ways to streamline the checklist and make it faster to complete? Partially automate it, or have an admin deal with any parts they can (I know not the actual filling of the checklist, but if it needs to be filed or anything)? Maybe that would be impractical or prohibitively expensive, but people might react better if there was a way to reduce the burden a little. Then you could present it like, great news, we have this new system to make this task (which you have been doing all along) faster.

      1. Ihmmy*

        I second seeing about what can be streamlined, automated, added to an admin role, or perhaps even hiring someone to specialize in quality checks. OP – you said this affects their capacity to make commission which means this is going to drop their income which is going to get a lot of pushback. Alternatively, can you factor in QC checks into their commission somehow?

    3. Kathenus*

      I see some similarities to an experience I had years back with our management not enforcing certain parts of the union contract consistently, and wanting to start doing so but having to deal with the past practice aspect. We got legal advice on it to make sure we did it correctly from an enforceability standpoint. Basically it was really simple – we had to create a written document that stated that we have not been enforcing XX and YY sections of the union contract consistently, and are giving the union official notice that starting ZZ date it will be enforced according to the contract specifications. Everyone got some advance notice it was occurring versus it being sprung on them so people could prepare and plan. And then it was VERY important that we did enforce it across the board and consistently after that.

      What I would push back on is ‘find time to do it without dropping productivity’. I don’t believe in the phrases ‘find time’ or ‘make time’. In my opinion there are only four ways to add new work to an existing workload – 1) remove something else, 2) decrease standards for existing work (so it takes less time), 3) add resources (time, staff), or 4) create efficiencies if time isn’t being spent as well as it could be. That’s it. You can’t just add something without changing anything else, it’s not fair and it’s not realistic. The aspect of the checklists having been required all along is ancillary to having the capacity to change how they are being followed now.

    4. AcademiaNut*

      I don’t think you can suddenly increase people’s workload, with no extra pay, and expect them to accept it. They’ll be legitimately annoyed, they’ll complain, and they’ll start looking for other jobs. Historically, you’ve made the checklists a low priority because skipping them increased productivity – if you had been using them all along, the expectations for teapot production would be lower than they are now.

      So – explain clearly why things are changing, and what impact not changing would have, and adjust the productivity expectations so that the amount of time worked remains the same.

  67. Polly Sprocket*

    Should I turn down a promotion?? So I’ve been at my current job for about a year – I’m in my early 30s, but this is my first real “professional” job, with an actual decent salary/benefits/some level of economic security. I like my work for the most part, even it’s not my greatest passion or whatever.

    We’re in the middle of annual reviews, and I am 99% guaranteed a promotion of some kind. My boss initially said she was recommending me to essentially jump two levels in the organization, which would entail a pay bump of around 25%, more control over my work… and potentially longer hours. We have a leadership vacuum in our org, and I think my boss is very excited to get someone into a role, to help remove some of her load (which is too high).

    I expressed interest, but also some concern about the longer hours. I feel very protective of my free time and really do not want to be consistently going over 40 hours a week. After bringing up this concern a couple of times, my boss said another option would be to take promotion of only one level – basically I’d be bringing my pay up to match the increasing responsibilities I’ve taken on over the last year, but it would be a smaller bump (closer to 15%). She said we could then talk about the next level up next year.

    I’m feeling torn because on the one hand, I really appreciate the trust my manager puts in me, and I know that she does need someone in this role. As somewhat of a late bloomer career-wise, I also feel some pressure to earn as much money as possible to make up for lost time. AND if I only take the one-level jump, it’s possible that I would gradually start taking on even more increasing responsibility over the coming year but wouldn’t have the pay to match.

    On the other hand, I also have a lot going on in my life right now: In the next 6 months, I’m getting married and moving across the country and then will be getting settled into life in my new city (this doesn’t matter for my job, as it’s all fully remote). I also am thinking about grad school, but I feel like I have hardly any free time as it is! I have ADHD too (I haven’t disclosed this at work), and while it’s well-managed at the moment, I do feel some anxiety about work-life balance with more responsibility and ADHD in the mix.

    Anyway I suppose this is a good problem to have, but I genuinely don’t know what to do! I’ve never been in a position like this before, with a real salary, responsibilities, and job security, and figuring out how to make it work with my life is an ongoing learning curve.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Don’t take a promotion that you don’t want! Your manager will be fine :) One of my folks was a great fit for the next opening I would have for a larger promotion (he was 2nd in the prior round) and I kind of counted on him still wanting that when it reopened (MY mistake). In the meantime, we found another role for him that was a good fit , though a smaller promotion, which he absolutely loved. When the larger promotion reopened, he had no interest. It made my search a bit harder, but I was really happy that we had found an even better fit for him and I ended up finding another great person for the larger promotion.

    2. JelloStapler*

      I’ve turned down a job opportunity because there was too much going on and I needed the flexibility of my current position – and I have not regretted it.

  68. Internist*

    I’m an intern at a massive multinational corporation, where the only benefit I’m eligible for is a free transit pass. I don’t take transit all that much but my partner does. Would it be unethical to take the transit pass and share it with my partner? It is fully paid monthly pass so the company will pay the same amount regardless of how much it is used.

    2. Fluffy Fish*

      Unless they make you sign some kind of agreement that you and only you will use it under penalty of something (which frankly would be rare, weird and overkill), then it’s fine.

      If it makes you feel better lots of benefits are not just for employees but the employees families – things like health insurance, flexible spending accounts, EAP programs etc.

    4. Raboot*

      I would say do it but probably don’t mention at work that you did it. Speaking as someone who “lost” her monthly transit card from work at a friend’s house early in the pandemic when I was wfh and she had to commute to her airline job every day lol. I certainly didn’t tell my job about that.

    5. Generic Name*

      This is one of the benefits of working for MegaCorp where you are just a number. :)

  69. Syl*

    I have a question about how to time my resignation.

    I accepted a job that starts in a month. I’m working my current job for two weeks, then going out of the country for a two week vacation.

    At my current job, I am over my limit for vacation time accrual. So if I turn in my two weeks now, I will lose a week of vacation pay. If I turn in my two weeks at the end of March, I can use that vacation time.

    My boss is really volatile and emotional. I don’t think she will take my resignation well. I have absolutely no idea if she would be a good reference because of how emotional and toxic she is.

    What should I do? Hand in my resignation today? Hand it in in two weeks? I’m not sure what to do. I signed my offer letter but I’m worried my new job will slip away from me somehow, I haven’t cleared a background check or drug test yet.

    1. BalanceofThemis*

      Do nothing until the background check comes back. You do not have a new job until that is finalized.

        1. MaryLoo*

          It is dangerous to assume that. People with perfectly “clean” backgrounds have been caught when the company running the background check runs into logistical problems or does something incompetent.

    2. California Squirrel*

      I’d wait to resign until everything is fully in place with your new position if you can. I wouldn’t say that for everyone, but if your boss is emotional and volatile, you resign then have to…unresign…for some reason…oof. Better safe than sorry. Plus, vacation pay!

    3. Doctor is In*

      Way too many people have written in to this forum with sad stories about background checks or drug tests that either took forever or unexpectedly came back with a problem. Allison’s advice is pretty much Do Not Resign till everything is final.

    4. Jean*

      Don’t resign until a) everything is finalized with your new job and b) you’re ready to walk out that day. If your current boss is as volatile as you say, it’s best to wait until the last possible second, because you might be out the door right then and there. There’s no need for hand wringing over what notice period is proper, especially if you’re not able to count on a good reference from her either way, which it sounds like you’re not. So just do what you need to do to get paid and get out the door. Have a great trip and good luck with the new role!

    5. Dragon*

      Another vote for wait until and if the background check comes back clean.

      A friend of mine cleared a background check with a government contractor, they offered the job and she accepted. The agency also ran its own check, which turned up something obscure the contractor didn’t and the job was withdrawn.

      I don’t know exactly who said what to whom, but the contractor should’ve told my friend not to make plans until the agency check also came back clean. That said, the withdrawal ended up being a blessing in disguise. A few years later the agency closed their location where the job was located, and they were the small town’s major employer.

  70. ADA clarification*

    I have a question on ADA and what it covers. My new job only allows people to “make up” aka work through lunch 15 hours a year. I have a standing medical appointment every 8 weeks that I leave 3 hrs early for. Once I use those 15 hrs, I have to use PTO.

    Is working through lunch for those appointments (6/7 times a year) and not having those count towards the 15 hrs a reasonable accommodation? This would leave those 15 hours free for things like dr appts, dentist, leaving early to take the dog to the vet, etc.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Not an expert here by any means, but I think the accommodation is making sure you can go to those appointments, not that it wouldn’t use the normal leave policies. There is some good info on the EEOC site about this. Look for Employer-Provided Leave and the Americans with Disabilities Act and then the Granting Leave as a Reasonable Accommodation section.

    2. Fikly*

      ADA wouldn’t cover that, you should look at intermittent FMLA, if you’ve been working there for at least a year. That’ll get you the time off (but unpaid).

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        They can actually require you to use PTO for your FMLA time; you can’t unilaterally decide to take it unpaid if you still have accrued PTO remaining.

  71. underpaid*

    Salary related question:
    I pieced together recently that my coworker is making 15-20 grand more per year than me. (Based off of stuff she told me about her salary + other clues). She’s been at the company longer than me, but she’s only been in that role/team 6 months longer than me. We do the exact same job (literally, the exact same job.) How do I bring this up to my boss? I already tried asking for a raise and it didn’t happen.

    1. underpaid*

      for clarification: my manager said I might get a raise at my midyear…she’s my dept. head as well, and I’ve been getting nothing but praise from her + the other members of the team

    2. Sloanicota*

      So this is just my two cents, but I wouldn’t bring up your coworker’s salary (also, it sounds like you might not be certain what she’s making?) – I’d keep it in my mind to shape the discussion and inform how I approach my boss and what I ask for. IMO nothing good can come from “I know you’re paying Sally X and I want X too.” The only exception is if you have strong evidence you’re being discriminated against on the basis of age, race, gender etc. I have had coworkers confirm they’re making “low sixties” or “high seventies” or whatever, which they were more willing to do vs naming the number itself. I have never mentioned this to my boss but I’ve used it to be confident in my request for what I should be making and know I won’t get laughed out of the office. But the argument for my raise is based on all the usual factors like how much time/money I’ve saved the company, my excellent performance, all the new things I’ve taken on etc.

      1. underpaid*

        I know her post-tax salary (she told me) so I used a tax calculator to figure out the gross, and even if I went down BELOW what the tax calculator said, it was at LEAST 15k more than me. I’ve tried doing the usual arguments and I haven’t gotten anywhere even though I’ve pretty much only gotten positive feedback. (And over the past few months, nothing but glowing feedback.)

    3. ferrina*

      Normally I’d say focus on your performance and market rates (rather than coworkers), but you may have already done that. Next step would be to ask how they price salaries across the company. Most places have set salary bands that they work within. Maaaaybe you can say something like “From the conversations I’ve had, I get the sense that the salary for my role can be as high as [AMOUNT YOU SUSPECT COWORKER IS MAKING]. Can you tell me a little bit about that discrepency, and what I need to do to get in the higher bracket?”
      That wording can be dangerous though- I’ve had bosses lash out at me because I’m “not supposed to know what my coworkers are making” (yeah, I know it’s illegal for them to stop us, but the retribution is real). So do what you need to based on your knowledge of your boss and what kind of risk you may face/are willing to face.

      1. underpaid*

        My boss isn’t the “lash out” type. I’m not worried about the “risk” sense. Also, she’s the only other person who does my job – there are two of us, we do the exact same role, so whatever I say will be like — obvious who I’m referring to.

    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      This is why work needs reform!!!

      Hey I found out Susan makes at least 15k more than me, what gives? I know we do the same tasks, what differences in her qualifications led to that? (Wait and see what they say, then follow up with asking what performance goals would boss like to see to feel comfortable nominating you for raise, or if they do present qualifications that are different ask how you can start working on those). It’s an even strong argument if you can find some more benchmarks (what does your job title and years experience make in other companies on glassdoor etc).

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing salary information. That’s not something to be ashamed about. Companies win (at least 15k a year here just from you!) by trying to make this culture of oh no how dare you dare to question what crumbs we want to pay you.

      1. underpaid*

        EXACTLY, thank you. I would say “people in my role” but it’s just the two of us doing the exact same job so either way it’s super obvious lol.

        1. JustaTech*

          Expect to get at least some pushback about knowing Susan’s salary. If you’re not supervisors then it’s 100% within your rights to talk pay, but a lot of corporate folks don’t like it and will try to tell you that you can’t or that it’s unprofessional.
          (I did this when my peer who made $10k more than me was leaving so I knew she wouldn’t get any blowback and while I got the promotion and a raise I’m still not making what she was. *Many* excuses were offered for the difference.)

  72. Seriousface*

    Do I need to be smiling in my LinkedIn profile photo? I’m not very photogenic and getting a genuine-looking smile is really hard (I pretty much have to be laughing at the right moment). I’m a woman in non-client-facing finance if that makes a difference.

    1. Sloanicota*

      I don’t think you need to be smiling! Pleasant doesn’t always mean a toothy grin. It shouldn’t be a mug shot or be giving a boudoir come-hither look but it can be neutral-pleasant.

    2. Fluffy Fish*

      I’m not. Well that’s not entirely true. I have a very slight closed lip smile, just so the corners are slightly upturned so I look more warm than totally straight faced serious.

    3. MochiCat*

      I feel you! Every photo I have of me smiling, I look like a hyperactive pug dog that’s about to get some bacon. I try to do the closed-lip, slight smile. I have found that I have to turn my head slightly and not look at the camera head-on for this to work – otherwise I look like I”m angry and/or smirking.

      I’ve seen a lot of nice headshots where the person is barely smiling, or looking off without a smile, etc. Experiment with different angles and expressions and find something you like!

    4. Generic Name*

      I decided to do a closed-mouth smile in my most recent professional headshot, and I think it looks more professional/serious than a big toothy grin, in my personal opinion. That said, choose an expression that you think looks best on you. If I don’t smile at all (like government ID photos) I just look pissed off.

    5. Thursday Next*

      I needed a headshot for work so I got a local photographer to take a handful of pictures. He said to bring along a friend who makes me laugh so he could capture my natural smile. Now those are the only pictures I use – they are so well done! Maybe you could do something similar?

    6. Kafka Memory*

      Where I live you’re not supposed to smile in official photos (for ID, also photos are required on resume). But you don’t want to look grumpy either. So a trick I was told is to say “eh” as in “them” and gently close your lips together. It leaves the slightest trace of an upturned mouth without being a full smile, and looks serious and professional. It’s also easy to replicate when you’re in front of a camera and super awkward.

  73. Susie Q*

    I just returned from maternity leave however I will be leaving my job in the summer (end of May/early June) because we are moving overseas.

    I don’t know when I should give notice. I was thinking a month as opposed to two weeks. My Dad thinks I should say something now (but I worry if something happens and we don’t move). Any recommendations?

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      Why do you feel obligated to give more than the standard notice? Especially if there’s concerns that things may not go as planned. When you give notice it is always a possibility that the company will decide that today is your last.

      Two weeks is standard. You owe nothing more than that. If the tables were turned I highly doubt your company would give you a months notice of being laid off.

    2. Jean*

      Kind of odd that your dad’s opinion gets to hold as much as/more weight than yours here. Unless he’s your boss, he has no stake in this. If 2 weeks/a month is the standard in your field, that should be your target.

    3. PollyQ*

      You SHOULD worry about something happening if you give notice now! Even with 2 weeks, there’s always the risk that they could walk you out that day, and if you let them know now, you could theoretically miss out on several months of salary. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that your father thinks you should be extra accomodating as “gratitude” for them “letting” you go on maternity leave. But that’s BS, maternity leave is a standard benefit, not a gift. Give the standard 2 weeks, unless there’s a different norm in your company/industry.

  74. Joie de W*

    I’ve quit my job without having a new one lined up. I want to temp for a while. There are a lot of temp firms in my area. How can I pick a good one to work for?

    1. Choggy*

      You can research them online, how long have they been in business, how well is the company doing financially.
      Check reviews on reputable sites.

    2. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Interview them. With the tight labor market, you’re in the command seat. I would suggest asking if they offer benefits to people who reach a threshold of hours, and what that threshold is. Ask about any training they may provide on software when you are not on an assignment.
      If you are leaving on good terms with your company, ask them what agency they use. That might put you in the weird/interesting position of being called back for short-term contract work that you will know hands down even if you are a little bored with it.

    3. Dragon*

      Please let us know how your temp experience turns out in this current changed world of work order.

    4. beach read*

      The best temp company I worked with and the best agent who found me a great position were the ones that took the time to really get to know me. And let me ask a million questions as a first timer.
      If you are invited in for an interview with them and they only take 5 minutes to go over your resume and don’t take notes or seem distracted, I would wonder about them not knowing enough to find the best fit.
      This is just me, but I used a local company. They had a great finger on the pulse of the local industries that I was looking to temp for and were able to cultivate actual relationships with local companies.
      Really, right or wrong, I sort of felt more like they were trying to find me a job vs them trying to fill open positions for their clients. (Which of course they were). Hope this is helpful and best of luck to you!

    5. PollyQ*

      My cousin temped for years, and he recommended that people sign up with multiple agencies to maximize the odds that there’d be an opening for you at any given time.

  75. HiImKindaNewHere*

    I’ve got a question I’m hoping some commenters can weigh in on: how do you deal with leaving behind coworkers that you truly like?

    I’m considering changes jobs (and that itself comes with a whole lists of pros and cons) but one of the biggest cons that I have on my list is leaving behind people that have become true friends and people that I’ve worked with for a decade.

    And the thought of building goodwill with a whole new set of coworkers? Phew.

    Thoughts, opinions, experiences?

    1. ferrina*

      When you leave a job, sometimes you’ll leave the coworkers, but sometimes you can keep the relationships going. Connect with them on LinkedIn so you can reach out to them (I’ve done coffees with folks from LinkedIn months after I/they left). Do a group happy hour. One group of former coworkers actually have a Slack channel- we post anything we find amusing or updates or sometimes ask work questions that draw from each other’s expertise.

      For building goodwill with new coworkers- just be yourself. Get to know them (I’m a fan of setting up coffee times with individuals on my new team). I’m assuming you are a lovely person, and that’s all you need (grand gestures can be odd, especially if they aren’t really who you are). It may be a bit awkward at first, but that’s super normal. Some folks will like you, some folks won’t. Unless there is some strange insidious drama, you’ll be fine. (and if there is some strange insidious drama, keep us posted on the open threads! :D )

    2. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      Currently dealing with this. I have a few people at current job who I will actually miss. Thankfully, the area near work has several pubs, so we are planning a get together.

    3. JustaTech*

      When my spouse left his startup he created a Facebook group specifically for folks who had left the company who wanted to stay in touch and chat/ gossip.

    4. Jean*

      Get their contact info, ask to meet for coffee, happy hour, whatever way works for you to start fostering outside the office friendships with them. You don’t even have to wait to start doing this until you’re sure you’re leaving – start now if you’re comfortable. One of my closest current friends is someone I met through an old job, and since we were hanging out outside of work regularly while we were both still working there, it was a very natural transition once she (and then I) moved on to other jobs.

      And as for new coworker relationships, those will form and build organically, just like the current ones did.

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        This is what I do. I have three previous jobs where I try to meet for lunch or breakfast about once a month (pre-covid). I send an open invite to each group, we choose a place, and whoever can make it shows up. Breakfast for job A, lunch one Friday for job B, and lunch a different Friday for job C. We’re just starting to meet again, but for the breakfast group, we’ve been meeting for over 20 years.

    5. Wordybird*

      I’m still friends of some sort with every former coworker that I genuinely liked so I’m not sure I understand why it would keep you from taking another job? Some of them I just keep up with on social media. Some I see when I’m back in town. I still spend time with my most recent former coworkers; one took me out for my birthday a few months ago, and I went over to my former supervisor’s house last month to catch up for an hour or two.

  76. Could you repeat that?*

    Question about politeness: My workplace has a lot of people who speak multiple languages. I only speak English, and I view the following as a “me” problem: It’s not uncommon that a person I don’t know comes in to do a task, so it’s not like I have a prior relationship with them. Sometimes, I don’t understand what they said because of their accent/word choice. What’s the politest way to ask them to repeat themself? I feel like they *know* why I didn’t understand them, so it sounds pandering to say “it’s so loud in here” or some other polite fiction. I also don’t need them to talk louder, I usually just need to hear the words again and maybe hope they pick a different word or include a gesture that gives enough context that things click into place. But it seems rude to say “I didn’t understand your accent” even when we both know that’s the issue. Multilingual workers, what do you think? Monolingual workers, what would you say?

    1. Alice*

      Not a native English speaker. I kind of assume that, if you don’t understand me, it’s because my pronunciation is off! Pretending you don’t hear because of the background noise seems kind of rude and condescending. Just tell me you don’t understand my accent, I won’t be offended. I assume my English is loads better than your second language anyway.

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      What’s wrong with “sorry, can you repeat that?” or “could you say that again please?” or “I’m afraid I didn’t catch that”?

    3. fueled by coffee*

      I think “Sorry, I didn’t quite catch that. Can you repeat it?” is fine. No need to point out that it’s their accent; either they know it’s causing communication issues or they’ll attribute it to literally any other possible reason (it’s loud, you were thinking about something else, etc.).

      If you managed to understand part of their statement but not the full thing, you can also just base your question off what you did understand. “Sorry, did you need the llama file by Friday or the alpaca one?”

      If it’s a word that’s tripping you up, just say that. You: “Sorry, the ‘lift’?” Them: “Yes, to get to the next floor.” You: “OH, the elevator, okay.” Everyone knows that it’s common for people to use different words for things, even among native English speakers (source: Trying to order a coke in Georgia and being asked “what kind?”).

      Basically, I wouldn’t treat this any differently than any other lapse in communication. It sounds like you don’t frequently interact with the *same* person, but rather you have multiple different people at your workplace with different language backgrounds – just address what’s causing communication issues in the moment so you can complete the interaction.

    4. K*

      Multilingual worker in English speaking country, started learning English in my 20s. Just say something like “repeat it please”. We know very well that our accents can be difficult to understand. We are not offended if you don’t understand us. And I see it as “me” problem, not my coworkers’ problem.

  77. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

    Boomerang employees, unite!

    I worked for a company that was acquired by a competitor 2.5 years ago. Due to some insurmountable difficulties with the buyout, I only stayed on for 6 months and then left. Many stayed on though, and I wound up getting a job offer from someone you used to be my peer and am now back. I am really, really loving the experience of being a “boomerang” – the learning curve has been shallow and there’s none of the weird getting-to-know-you awkwardness I’ve experienced moving jobs before. Many people still remember me (even ones I didn’t work closely with – apparently you can make a really good impression even when you’re on the brink of a nervous breakdown) and seem extremely excited that I’m back.

    Are there any pitfalls I should be on the lookout for? So far it is so much better than any new job I’ve gotten before, I’m afraid I’m only looking at it through rose colored glasses. Also looking for boomerang success stories as well!

    1. Hotdog not dog*

      I’m also a boomerang (for almost a year now) and the challenge has been that my old role no longer exists, so anytime someone is looking for information related to my old department they come to me. This doesn’t make my new boss very happy, as he (reasonably) expects me to spend my time on my current role. I also went from being a manager to an individual contributor, while my current manager is about 6 months into his first people managing role, so I also need to be mindful of not overstepping.

  78. ArtK*

    Is there anything that can be done about a colleague who ignores my calendar when scheduling meetings? Got a last-minute invitation for a call that conflicted with something already on my calendar. Sent a reschedule request (with time) but that got missed. This person then rescheduled for a time when I’m on vacation; again, the calendar is very clear that I’m not available. Is it really that hard to use Outlook and *not* put something where a key person has a solid bar?

    1. Sloanicota*

      If they’re on my same level or below I would certainly feel comfortable saying, “please check my calendar and find a time that works” – assuming my presence is important at the meeting. If it’s a senior person I might go to their calendar and find a few times that work for them. Some people are clueless about Outlook.

      1. Fluffy Fish*

        This. And in this specific instance since the meeting scheduling has been messed up multiple times, I would say “Jan, I’ve noticed you’ve booked this meeting twice for times I had an existing conflict on my calendar. I keep my calendar up to date so they best way to fine a time I can attend is to check my calendar.”

    2. yep, sometimes hard*

      sometimes, yes, it is that hard to use outlook.

      I don’t know why, but my work’s outlook doesn’t show personally-blocked off time until you do a specific search for that person. Like, if I look up Jane’s calendar, it only shows meetings that Jane has been invited to; if I search for people named Jane, I’ll see Jane’s calendar with time that Jane *herself* has blocked off.
      So, yes, sometimes it *is* that hard.

  79. Albeira Dawn*

    Industry awards “galas”: what’s the dress code?
    I’m a woman in a technical field, I’m not getting an award myself, other people in my office have been to this specific event before but they’re all men who didn’t notice what the women were wearing. So far all I’ve gotten out of them has been “not black tie” and “not prom dresses”.
    There will be a cocktail hour followed by a dinner in a relatively nice banquet hall. I’m thinking like a tea-length dress or skirt combo with minimum frills?

    1. Joielle*

      I’d go for a cocktail dress with an A-line or sheath silhouette. So yeah, like you said, a tea-length dress with minimum frills. Maybe a dark color to be on the safe side. Have fun! I love galas!

    2. MochiCat*

      A minimal or dress or skirt combo would be good, you could also get away with dressy pants and a blouse or blazer. I would stick with darker colors. If it was me – I’d probably be wearing wide-leg dressy slacks in black with a nice blouse or sweater, or a wide-leg jumpsuit with longer sleeves and maybe a crew or ballet neck, also in something like black or navy.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Most awards take photos of the winners and speakers, maybe try some google stalking and see if you cant find anything?

      2. Jinni*

        This ^^^ exactly. That said, for unknowns, I feel like a little black dress or a DVF style wrap dress in black are always perfect.

  80. Joielle*

    Hi all! My spouse is starting a new job on Monday, at a consulting firm. Neither of us have ever worked in consulting before and I don’t know much about it. I know it can be very intense if you work at a big 4 firm, but my sense is that this job at a smaller niche firm will be somewhat different. For those who have worked at small to mid-size consulting firms – any advice for someone starting out in the field?

  81. NervousNellie*

    I’d like a sanity check on something that has come up in both of my prior jobs. In both jobs I was a junior member of a team by a good margin despite being an experienced person. The scenario is like this: a new task will be assigned to the team, typically something that the other members of the team view as beneath them, unwanted tedium, wrongly assigned (think the teapot design team being asked to do clay testing) or in some other way onerous (tracking hours for a specific customer.) After some deadline is missed, someone will say “Nervous, I want you to take point on this and quarterback it to the finish line.”

    Inevitably, things would start out well. “Hey Jorge, I need those testing reports on Friday, or Bad Things!’ Jorge would just barely get them in on time. I’d be a bit more serious each week, but soon, those deadlines would be missed, and I’d come back with a harder line. “Hey Jorge, as per Boss, the testing reports need to be on my desk on Friday, no later than 3pm so I can package them up for the Monday Morning check in with the client.” Eventually, I’d have to call, harass, beg, plead, and throw a fit to get those testing reports. I read books on leadership and emotional intelligence and tried many methods from them. They’d all work for a short while, but I’d have to ask for management help. I’d be told I needed to be more aggressive. I’d have a MEETING with Jorge explaining we have to do this. Eventually management would have to step in. Every. Single. Week.

    I would be hit with massive backlash. “You aren’t my manager.” “You are acting awfully big for those boots.” I’d hear that the responsibility isn’t right for me. I’d eventually get pulled somewhere else, and it would be obvious to me that this work would be less important with less chances at moving forward, etc, etc. I would get hit with ‘woman-only’ feedback about being abrasive. I would explain that while I was asked to remind people and keep after those reports, I had no authority to compel Jorge. They would say that they stepped in when I asked — but the truth is, I had to ask them every week to step in, and that was after being ‘coached’ to call, beg, plead, harass, etc, etc.

    I was asked to do this a final time at my previous job, and I said (in a one-on-one) “In my experience, having a junior member of the team quarterback Tedious Task doesn’t work well, because I’m not equipped with the authority to ask this of them, so my only tools are to be a nag and tattletale. In a couple of months, you’ll definitely hear that I suck as a team mate, I’m abrasive, that no one wants to work with me, etc, etc. The problem will also remain a problem because I’ll go ignored. I’d really prefer that management be undertaken by leadership.”

    I got bullied into taking the role, but then a bunch of things happened, and I’m no longer employed (which is somewhat a relief.)

    Is this a normal, sane request of a junior team member? If so, how the heck do I stop screwing it up?

    1. Fabulous*

      *Pulls out my Alison hat* I think there needs to be a “big picture” discussion, probably with both Jorge and management.

      “Jorge, there has been some issue with you meeting the deadline for Tedious Task without a lot of hounding. As you know, this is something that management has asked me to manage, and I can’t do my job unless you do yours. Is there a better way we can ensure this task gets done on time?”

      “Management, you’ve tasked me with quarterbacking Tedious Task, but I’ve had to ask you to step in literally every week because teammates are not respecting the deadlines. I’ve already tried calling, begging, pleading, harassing, etc. as I’ve been coached, to no avail. How would you like to proceed with this task?”

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      My sympathies – this sounds super miserable.

      If you ever get assigned something like this, I’d recommend a combination of being SUPER transparent about the progress and returning the responsibility right back to sender. IE, put together a master timeline for the task, including very clear deliverables from other people, that all the other people and your manager can see. Then only ask for those deliverables 2-3 times, max, being sure to copy your manager the last time. On that last email, make sure there is language in the email along the lines of “Hi Manager – if you look at the Master Tasklist for Tedious Task, you can see that I cannot progress further until I get the reports from Jorge. Please let me know how you’d like me to proceed”. Then when the client complains you will have a lovely clear record that you did all that was in your power, and it was your manager/Jorge that dropped the ball.

    3. Mockingjay*

      You were doing your boss’s job.

      My job depends heavily on inputs from others. I used to run around and remind, nag, cajole, and beg for stuff to get in on time. It was exhausting and didn’t work – got many of the same complaints and nothing changed.

      So I stopped. Instead, I bat every dropped ball back to the boss. “Boss, report is late because Fred didn’t provide inputs.” “Boss, sent draft to Ella to review two weeks ago; still waiting for her to approve changes.” And so on. I also leverage process: “Boss, the new widget has to be tested twice for quality control; it’s only been tested once so I can’t submit the report yet.”

      What’s important here is that I stopped providing the solution – the tracking, the reminders (the angst). I simply report the problem to Boss and it’s up to him to fix it – that is, make other people do their jobs on time. If he does, great. If not, oh well. The draft stays unfinished until the next person does his part. What surprised me the most? I didn’t get dinged for doing this. If Boss or someone asks where something is, I say in perplexed tone: “I don’t know. Last I knew was that Bob had it for technical review. Maybe check with him?” And I never follow up with the individual team members any more. They’re adults and are responsible for their own tasks, the same as you are for yours.

  82. Tangy Tangerine*

    The post about the 30 year old with no job experience reminded me of my fandom friend who has recently been opening up to me more about personal life. She is 31, and I thought she was like me in that I value comfort over career, so I am fine working a job that maybe doesn’t move me up in the world much but provides pay, benefits and good work life balance.

    But turns out she is actually part time studying her BA in English and planning on studying Library Studies when she moves to the US to be with her boyfriend. And she actually hasn’t had a job apart from some short stints as a summer retail employee or Christmas season employee, again in retail.

    She thinks she’s not cut out for retail but I think that could be valuable to be on her resume, even a steady part time gig, if she plans to job search in the US. I feel like our country in the EU is more lenient on pauses in the working world but the US is not. I know she had issues with mental health in her twenties so that’s probably why.

    I tried to encourage her to look for something now, anything really, and maybe have a back up plan (interpreter, proof reader, I don’t know, whatever her skills with language can provide) but she seems hesitant. It’s like she thinks she is not ready until she has her MA and I just think experience is so much more valued.

    What do you think I should say to her, or should I just be encouraging and not go into details?

    1. NervousNellie*

      Oh wow, your friend is kind of in trouble but not why you think. The US Job market is a beast, not like Europe at all. I have a friend who is a librarian, and the truth of the matter is that the US Library system has way, way, way more Librarians than it can employ.

      I would encourage her to do a fake job search now as if she had her degree and see how many postings she could realistically apply to upon graduation. She’ll find that many paid positions require nearly a decade of experience in the library system. her best bet is to not work retail, but volunteer at her local museum or library to start building that experience.

      I’d also encourage her to really drill down into her chosen college(s) placement program — how many people did they place from her program into jobs, how many of those jobs were career relevant. They should also have some insight into what those former students make, and she should find out what sort of income she may be able to count on. Many municipal jobs do not pay living wages in the US, and if our poverty guidelines weren’t wildly miscalculated, would be poverty wages as well. Graduating into poverty is awful. I know. I did it.

      1. Soup of the Day*

        Agree with this. My librarian friend had to move wherever in the country was hiring once her first contract was up, and when that contract ended she had to move to Canada. She finally found full-time employment there, but she never expected she would have to leave the country to do it.

    2. AnonymooseToday*

      Vast majority of library or GLAM jobs are going to involve customer service skills. Public libraries=the public, academic=faculty, etc. I would absolutely hire someone with retail skills & the degree vs. someone with the degree and no job experience.

      The market is absolutely saturated as others said. I’ve been in almost 10 years and just started making 50k as a manager (admittedly I did stay in a single position for a long time because the health insurance was excellent and I have a chronic illness vs. any pay increase I would’ve gotten elsewhere would disappear with the awful insurance). Reality is, you most likely have to move all the time, your first couple jobs might be grant ones that only last a year or two and then you have to move again.

      And honestly I look at a lot of jobs, most do not cover sponsorship for visas if she would need a work one, even large universities.

      She absolutely will need experience before she gets her degree, whether it’s now or doing it while earning the degree (which will be much harder). She should join some of the professional social media pages, all members give very frank advice on entering the field. Also usually recommended, take the cheapest program available (while trying to find the balance with quality), vast majority of the time, the degree is just a checkbox on hiring, not quality, the value is absolutely in the experience.

      My two cents that I always pass on, go for the tech. Any and every coding, database, tech focused library class you can take. That’s where any little bit of money someone could actually make in this profession might be.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      First of all, you can’t make her do anything. People are going to make whatever choices they make. I will say that when I hire entry level library staff (which I have done many times) I am looking for people with customer service experience 9 times out of 10. So, retail looks great on a resume. Library experience is helpful, as well.

      I’d add that the Library Market in the USA is tight, but not impossible. You just have to be willing to move for work. I’d also add that every Uni I have worked for would do VISA sponsorship, but public libraries generally don’t. It’s a tough tough marker. However, if she can fluently speak a non-English language, that may open up a lot of options.

      1. AnonymooseToday*

        Totally forgot about the foreign language, that definitely would help a lot.
        So universities would do sponsorship? That’s interesting, whenever I’ve noticed it on a job posting, it says they won’t do sponsorship…but maybe it’s just not mentioned at all on some and those are the ones who would, so I don’t notice it at all since it doesn’t apply to me. Good to know though.

        1. AnotherLibrarian*

          I can say the four schools I’ve worked at all do Visa Sponsorship; however, I haven’t really looked into it beyond that.

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Is English her first or her second language? You say EU, which makes me think not England, which doesn’t necessarily mean not Ireland… if she is bilingual, throw in the suggestion of translations.

    5. AcademiaNut*

      First – can she actually move to the US? If they’re not married, and she’s not a dual citizen, she can’t just randomly decide to move to the US, and she can’t work, even at retail, without the correct type of visa. Even living there while studying requires a student visa, and proof that you can support yourself during the degree. Spousal visas can take time to get – for a friend, it was faster for him to find an academic job that would sponsor him than it was to wait for a spousal visa to join his wife.

      Second – library jobs are way oversubscribed, and most jobs can’t sponsor visas. The kind of jobs that do, like university jobs, are going to be highly competitive and require moving to where the job is. Someone straight out of a master’s degree, with little work experience, is highly unlikely to be competitive.

      I’m less familiar with translation/interpretation work, but I do know there are qualifications beyond simply being bilingual if you want the kind of job that can qualify you for a visa – a friend is doing training in interpretation, and the exams for the qualification are notoriously difficult. And working under the table without a visa (ie, as an illegal immigrant) is illegal.

  83. Carmen Sanfranciscoearthquakeof1906*

    Temp agencies:
    1) Are they still a thing?
    2) What level of “experience” are they looking for? (I am late-20s with zero corporate job experience.)
    3) Has the weird post-pandemic job market changed the demand for temping?
    4) Assuming I am actively disinterested in temp-to-hire work (because I would be temping to supplement freelance income), would that be an asset or demerit from an employer’s perspective?

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      Oh yes, they are most certainly still a thing. My 75-year old mother continues to temp “for fun.” Based on what she says, they are looking for people to fill spots. Experience is variable but willingness is key. Most often, for her, it’s either a grunt work job (digitizing old documents, bring your own headphones and spotify) or filling in for someone who’s out on vacation or sickness or maternity. And once you establish a rep as “willing to fill in but don’t want to stay long term”, the agency will keep you on their call list for that sort of stuff.

      Good luck!

    2. 867-5309*

      When I’m freelance/independent consulting, I always take on additional temp work. I’m in marketing and communications, so with that lens in mind, here is how I would answer your questions:

      1.) Definitely still a thing!

      2.) They are looking for direct experience in whatever their clients needs but it definitely does not have to be corporate/FTE. Your other, related freelance work would apply.

      3.) The pandemic has created MORE demand in my field for temp gigs.

      4.) I also never consider temp-to-hire and it is not an issue. Just don’t apply for those particular temp jobs. It’s usually pretty clear on the agency’s website if it’s temp or temp-to-hire.

    3. Buni*

      When I first moved to the Big City – with very little notice, and absolutely zero plans – all the marketable skills I had were Following Instructions and Typing, so I signed on with a temp agency. It was perfect, and I ended up working with them for 5 years. The shortest gigs I ever took were 2-3 days, and the longest was 18 months.

      There was no job security of course but it taught me how to hit the ground running, how to suss out a workplace in the first 5 minutes and how to nope out when necessary. I could work when I liked and turn down places if I didn’t. Highly recommend, but I would say sign on with 2-3 agencies at once and winnow out the ones that don’t do you any favours…

  84. EmKay*

    I just want to share that after an eight-month long interview process (!), I’ve landed an administrative assistant position at one of my local universities. Not only did I snag a 20% salary increase, my working hours have decreased by 15%. And the cherry on the proverbial sundae? It’s a union job with a pension!

    I am beside myself with happiness :)))

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      A pension?!?!?!? What is this black magick of which you speak?
      Seriously, more money, less work AND a pension? Hell yeah! Go you! Hold on to that puppy with all four paws.

  85. anon tech person*

    Wild Tech Work Story
    I work at a small tech company. A few weeks ago, the beloved director of my department (who was my manager) suddenly disappeared. The founders of the company posted on Slack saying Charles (the department director) was no longer with the company. They did not elaborate on the reason, but gave the impression he left suddenly for personal reasons. We all briefly mourned no longer working with Charles and then had to immediately scramble because he was in the middle of leading several major projects before he left. The last few weeks have been really intense: all of us have been working above our pay grade to make things work, having painful conversations with clients and having to ask them to repeat info our director was already aware of, unexpectedly having to manage a lot more than we had planned on. Many of us reached out to Charles to ask if he was okay. He’s a classy guy so he assured us he was doing alright but wouldn’t give us details about why he so suddenly stopped working at our company.

    Well, we just found out that Charles did NOT leave for personal reasons. He was fired. For the STUPIDEST reason possible. Basically, one of the founders misinterpreted a common turn of phrase as an accusation of embezzlement. Charles was asked by an employee for a monitor that’s $30 more expensive than the (absurdly low) budget cap our company had set for monitors. Charles said, “Oh, we’ve probably got $30 hidden in the budget for that– let me check with finance.” That is… just not an accusation of embezzlement. But somehow a founder heard this and interpreted it that way. And instead of talking it through with Charles, he just fired him. With no transition/off-boarding period. In the middle of major projects that the founders had virtually no context on and when neither founder has the skills to execute on those projects.

    Learning this has been hugely demoralizing for all the workers. We thought we working on overdrive to cover for an emergency, but it turns out it was just a man-baby founder in his 40s having an ego battle over a turn of phrase. Everybody was already aware to some extent that our founders are not good leaders, but we had been insulated from the extent of their shortcomings by Charles. Everyone is looking for new jobs and it’s a tech worker’s market– it’s been a few days and at least one person has already gotten a second interview.

    I guess the big takeaways I have for company leadership are:
    – Know why your employees are working for you– don’t fire the person who drew them all in and is keeping them there.
    – If you react to a non-accusation of embezzlement by interpreting it as an accusation of embezzlement, everyone will now assume you are embezzling.

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      Ugh! That’s horrible. I mean, if he had said, “Let me see if I can pull a rabbit out of my hat” would the exec burn him at the stake for witchcraft? GAH.

    3. ArtK*

      My takeaway would be: Time to look for something new.

      With someone *that* twitchy at the top, nobody’s job is stable. “What? You got the hiccups in my presence! You’re fired!!!!”

        2. the cat's ass*

          Dayum! That’s kinda bananas, but I’m glad he landed better elsewhere. Maybe there are openings and he can poach you all away?

  86. LCH*

    currently under treatment for a work-related injury and job is ending. most jobs in my field have a physical component. thoughts on still looking for a similar job and asking for accommodation after hire (or offer?) others in my field have said accommodation should happen at any new job even though the physical demands are known ahead of time.
    other option is to figure out an entirely new job i can transition to and convince someone to hire me in.

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      Not knowing your field – accommodations have to be reasonable. So if say your job is trimming trees and you can no longer hold a chainsaw that’s required to trim said trees, you could request an accommodation to just not trim trees, but it’s an essential requirement of the job so that would not be a reasonable accommodation.

      The Job Accommodation Network provides a helpful list of disabilities and what a reasonable accommodation for that disability might be. It may help you frame what you need and know whether its reasonable for the job in question https://askjan.org/a-to-z.cfm

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      It really comes down to the nature of the job and the type of disability. I think Fluffy Fish is right that without knowing what exactly the job is and what you need, it can be very hard to know if it would be reasonable.

  87. Upcoming Road Trip*

    This relates too closely to work for me to have asked last weekend, where I had some excellent non-work recommendations. Today I’m here for a reality check or sanity check.

    As part of a family vacation, I’m going to be pretty much driving past the office of an organisation I’ve been working with for over a decade. It’s relatively common in our field that if you’re “in town” you drop in – that is, it’s weirder not to go than to go. It’s networking-lite though some people use it for true relationship building.

    So I’ve spoken to my main contact and arranged to drop in on a particular day. I deal chiefly with her, but our respective bosses also email often, and the streams cross a lot, so I know and am known to her boss, her grandboss and the other (our role)s in her department.

    Off-hand I said to my contact that I’d bring over some iconic UK snacks. That again isn’t unusual. Then I got a bit overexcited in the shop.

    My thought is that I’d bring the treats in a box “for the team”. From … me, or my team? It deliberately isn’t a marketing thing, it’s literally just putting faces to names. So it’s from me, yes?

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Just from you. Signing it from company raises potential for other vendors to wonder why they don’t get such gifts from company, or potentially awkward situation if that vendor thanks someone else from your company and they have no idea what for.

  88. Call Me Al*

    How can I delicately screen for companies of a certain “political ideology”?

    My current coworkers are just about the most reprehensible people I have ever met — antivaxx, alt-right, racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, transphobic, pretty much every kind of -ist and -phobe there is. They express these opinions freely, loudly, and during all downtime (which can be hours on end).

    Ok, sorry that was a bit of a rant, they get under my skin to say the least. Point is, I am trying my best to run away from this place, but I want to make sure I don’t jump right into another workplace like that. But obviously I can’t just ask the interviewer “so how do you feel about marginalized groups deserving human rights?” (and they may not even know, these guys are exactly smart enough to shut up when the boss is around)

    Can this even be done or do I just have to go for it? In my industry, many companies are so small they barely have websites that were last updated in 2010, let alone Glassdoor presences or social media.

    1. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      If they have a non-gated parking lot, cruise through during work hours and read bumper stickers. Look for trends. It won’t show you everything but you’d be amazed at what it can show you.

      1. Generic Name*

        Yep. Also, in my experience, liberals tend to drive the following vehicles: Subarus, Toyotas (especially the Prius), and electric cars. Conservatives tend to stick to American brands, and if you see trucks that look like they are rolling coal (they’ll have enormous tailpipes covered in black soot), that’s a sign too. I’m not bashing any of these vehicles (except for rolling coal, I guess- it’s illegal!!), it’s an amusing trend I’ve noticed.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      How diverse are their employees? Majority the same race, gender, age, sexuality, background – tend to have more anti/phobes. Diverse workplaces tend to have lots of different backgrounds and attract more open minded people.

    3. Fluffy Fish*

      COVID. Ask them how they handled the pandemic. Ask them what their policies surrounding covid moving forward are. It’s not a screening question that will work forever (I hope), but for now it’s still timely and relevant.

    4. Admin of Sys*

      You can absolutely ask about diversity initiatives during interviews, though? “Does the company have any resource groups for marginalized groups or diversity programs?” (If no) “Are there any plans for future groups, or opportunities to create such initiatives?” “How important is diversity to you as an organization?” “What training do supervisors / employees take to make sure that they respect the diversity of their coworkers?”
      A small company may not have answers to those sort of things, but how they address the questions should tell you a lot about their attitudes.

      1. Anonymous Luddite*

        That’s a great idea if the company is big enough. From the sounds of OPs question, most of the options are way smaller than what would support a DEI initiative. I mean, my current company in a rather liberal part of the country just hired its first woman who wasn’t “a parts girl” and it’s first brown person who wasn’t a janitor. There’s a giant disconnect between aspirational and the boots that are on the ground right now.

      2. Call Me Al*

        Anonymous Luddite is correct… For example, I am interviewing at a company next week which has a staff of three.

        My current multinational workplace is all about the diversity initiatives, but once you get in the wool comes off and you discover that the pride flag comes down at 00:00 July 1.

    5. Just another queer reader*

      As much as possible, I’d try to ask the *direct manager* and other close coworkers questions about diversity/ COVID/ etc.

      Honestly, being at small companies might make this easier. I know way too many big companies who talk a big game about diversity, but the situation on the ground is much different.

      1. Call Me Al*

        “I know way too many big companies who talk a big game about diversity, but the situation on the ground is much different.” This is precisely the problem I ran into at my current workplace. HR does a lot in the name of “diversity”, but it’s so disconnected from the reality it feels performative.

    6. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I suspect if you put your pronouns onto your resume and/or cover letter, the most egregious companies won’t call you for an interview.

      2. Call Me Al*

        That’s a great idea — I won’t lie, one of the reasons I accepted an interview request from someone on LinkedIn was because he had his pronouns in his profile.

  89. Bagworm*

    My sister has almost 30 years’ experience working in grocery stores from checker to customer service counter and lots of time in management in the same areas. She is looking to transition to something else but I am having a hard time getting her to tell me what she would like to do. She’s been focusing on transferable skills.

    What I have determined is that what she likes best about her job is problem solving. From observing her, I have seen that she is excellent at managing and she was a great coach to me when I was a new manager.

    I know that’s not a lot to go on but you all are the very best people I can think to ask if you have any suggestions for specific industries or roles she might start looking for.

    I know I’m getting in here a little late. Any help is greatly appreciated!

    1. irene adler*

      Quality Assurance is all about problem-solving.
      Might look into ASQ.org = American Society for Quality. They span a multitude of industries too. And there’s lots of different kinds of work: auditing (where you find the problems), document control (where you keep track of well, everything you do), Quality assurance (where you find ways to meet regulations as you make product=problem solve), quality control (where you check that product is meeting specifications), supply chain (where you work with suppliers to get the materials you need to make product=loads of problems here that need solving!).

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      There are lots of industries where her knowledge and skills would fit in well. Places that are grocery-adjacent would see that for sure, it might be more difficult pitching her experience to other places.

      Just off the top of my head:
      Warehouse manager or transportation coordinator for a wholesale beer & wine distributor.
      Customer service and game-day management for pro or college sports.

    3. 867-5309*

      I wonder if she could be a customer service lead for one of those food/grocery delivery companies?

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I would suggest she work through something like the classic “what color is your parachute” — There’s got to be a more up-to-date resource but that comes to mind.

    5. Bagworm*

      Thank you all for the comments. I think these are some great ideas and I am encouraging her to do some reflection/maybe testing to get an idea of what possible careers her interests, aptitudes and skills relate best to.

  90. Newbie Needs Help*

    Hey folks!
    I work at a very small firm (less than 20 employees) that works with very large, prominent clients. We just hired an HR director in January and have one person responsible for benefits and payroll (separate from HR). I originally asked to start contributing to my 401k back in January. Our payroll manager said ok (we’re eligible right away for our 401k but I’d been working with my company full time since NOV) but it took months of back and forth, and I just got them to take my first contribution (and receive my first match from the company) on the 15th. I”m pretty frustrated with the experience and the fact that I’ve now lost out on three months of company match that I can not get back. I want to vent my frustration but I’m a young woman just out of college, in my first job and I have no idea how to even go about issuing a complaint? We have no formal process that I know of and because we are so small it feels so awkward to raise the issue. Any advice?

    1. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Is there any chance you can make a large one-time contribution that would be equal to the last three months and have them match that?

    2. Just another queer reader*

      In your shoes, I would politely yet firmly ask for the company to make up the contributions that they should have been making since January.

      Escalate to your boss if needed. Good luck!

  91. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    There have been a lot of posts/comments/anecdotes here about how terrible first time managers are, but what is a first time manager supposed to do when staff members don’t give them a chance to improve?

    I’m a new manager at a new organization, and I fully recognize that I have a steep learning curve. I’ve contracted a leadership coach, I have a very hands-on boss who is actively coaching me on how to manage…but I also have extremely difficult staff members, and what my professional leadership coach describes as a “level 10 management challenge”. One of my staff members was rejected for my role and is extremely forthright about the fact that she doesn’t think I’m qualified for this job. She has no interest in helping me manage her or the department, instead preferring to quietly seethe, throw me terrible attitude, and then blame me for what she perceives as the wrong priorities. I am a subject matter expert and have the backing of my leadership team, but what the hell am I supposed to do with a staff member who resents me for being here?

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thank you! I read this recently and even copied the suggested phrasing into my notebook to keep in mind for future conversations. My challenge with this particular employee is that there is no one behavior that feels actionable, and I don’t know how to have a conversation with her about her general “vibe”. She is definitely someone that will nitpick for specific examples during any performance conversation.

        1. Kathenus*

          I get the challenge here, and have been in similar situations. If you can’t name the behaviors you need to change, I’d try to ignore it until/unless that changes and you can give specific coaching on something that needs to be done differently. When it’s not easily actionable, as you note it’s hard to change. So if it’s not disrupting the work product, and you can ignore it and treat her the same way that you do everyone else, that may be the best strategy. Look at it this way – she’s unhappy and acting in a way that makes it obvious – but you have no real way to change this. So don’t let her make YOU unhappy too. Treat her normally and professionally, and don’t let her unhappiness be contagious to you.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Can you say more about what these look like specifically: “no interest in helping me manage her or the department, instead preferring to quietly seethe, throw me terrible attitude, and then blame me for what she perceives as the wrong priorities”? I’m not convinced there’s nothing that’s actionable, but it’ll depend on exactly what she is doing that is giving you the sense in the part I quoted.

        3. Pocket Mouse*

          “She is definitely someone that will nitpick for specific examples during any performance conversation.”

          If you’re giving feedback, you should have specific examples ready to describe and relate to the feedback no matter what else is going on or who you’re talking to. This person may be giving you trouble, but if you’re having performance conversations and aren’t prepared to give examples, that’s on you—don’t fault her for expecting and asking for them. Depersonalize as much as you can so you’re clear on what is a problem on another person’s part vs. areas where you need to develop skills and practices as a manager.

    2. Lady Danbury*

      As a new manager, it’s super important not to let challenging employees undermine your confidence as a manager. If you had just started playing tennis, you wouldn’t think you were a bad player for losing a match to Serena. Management is the same way. I had a similar problem child when I first starting managing. It wasn’t until I left that job and reflected on my experience that I realized that I wasn’t a bad manager, I just had a challenging managee. I don’t have any practical tips because everything that we did only lead to temporary improvements. He should have been fired long before I left.

      1. JelloStapler*

        I had this very issue. Had a very challenging and terminally unhappy employee as my first go. It was demoralizing and stressful. I felt better when, after re-organization, others said the person was challenging for them too. But it did sour me on management.

  92. JH*

    Is it ever a good idea to take a panic job? I’m at my wits end right now with my current role to the point that it’s truly negatively affecting my mental health. I have a couple of options for jobs that I know I wouldn’t want to stay in for more than 12 – 18 months…which I know is typically bad form. But I’m so burnt out and overwhelmed in my current role that I just want to get out… Thoughts or suggestions? I work in fundraising events for a non-profit and the staff turnover right now is crazy because of how bad it’s gotten to give some context.

    1. fueled by coffee*

      If your mental health is taking a hit, it’s time to leave. But what are the reasons you wouldn’t want to stay in the new jobs for more than 1-1.5 years? You want to be sure you aren’t starting a new position with the same drawbacks.

      Otherwise, as long as you haven’t been too job-hoppy in the past, one short stint is fine. Even multiple short stints are fine, as long as your next move after this one is to someplace you feel you can stay for the long term.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I’m probably counter what everyone else will say, but I would definitely take the panic job. Give mental health a reset and a chance to get better even in a terrible new fit job will be better than staying current role. A year in ajob is pretty normal.

    3. EmKay*

      If you are already burnt out, please don’t try to stay for 12-18 more months. Get out now.

    4. A Simple Narwhal*

      You should definitely read yesterday’s update to “How soon is too soon to leave a panic job” and the original letter, I think the advice would really help you! If you have a solid work history, you don’t need to stay in a job that you hate just to hit a certain stint of time, you just need to avoid making a pattern of it. So if you’ve been at your job for a while and need to get out immediately, it’s fine to take something, and then leave that job shortly after if you find something better. Ideally you would find something relatively good and not full of red flags (no need to exchange one bad workplace for another if you can help it), but if you find a new job, decide a few months in it’s not working out, and then find something really good, you can take the really good job. Just make sure it is really good, because having multiple short stays on your resume (not due to layoffs or life events) is what makes you look iffy. Oh and you might burn a bridge at the interim place if you leave super quickly, so be prepared for that.

      But unless staying at a job long-term is the norm in your industry or expected in that role, thinking you might only stay at a place 1-2 years isn’t that bad honestly, I wouldn’t sweat it.

    5. cubone*

      Hi! I took a panic job after burning out in my non-profit (8 years, program manager). I was completely falling apart and constantly going to bed dreaming of giving my notice with nothing lined up the next day. I ended up taking a “panic job” (the first one I was offered), which was similar to my role but a few key differences and a different type of non-profit. Honestly, it wasn’t a great job or org! But the reset of a different set of problems still helped me, and even though the new org was also dysfunctional, I felt I went into with a better sense of distance/emotional detachment – it’s hard to crawl that back when you’ve given it somewhere for years, and easier when you’re starting fresh (or at least for me it was). Also while it was dysfunctional, it felt a lot less …….. gross and slimy than my previous job.

      I only stayed at the panic job for about a year and then I had enough saved to just leave and take some time off. I have never been happier and I’m really lucky. The panic job was actually super understanding and supportive and I am looking to switch careers, so I feel like I have a pretty reasonable explanation in future interviews of what happened.

      I was talking recently to a friend at slimy non-profit #1, who is desperate to leave but said “I hope you’re not offended, but I don’t want to have a similar experience to you where I leave but take a job I regret” and I had to be like……….. why on earth do you think I regret it?? It was a great decision, my health improved immensely, and I didn’t stay longer than I wanted to. Just because it wasn’t a forever job doesn’t mean it wasn’t a “win”.

      I think AAM has a post on this re: why you shouldn’t stay at your toxic job, but it really, really does warp your sense of self. Everyone I know still at slimy non-profit #1 says the same thing that they don’t want to take a panic job, this is fine for now, everywhere is overhwelming…….. it’s really not. I think you 100% know what you should do and we all agree with you.

    6. Hotdog not dog*

      I took a panic job, and it turned out fine. While it was never a great fit, it gave more work life balance than my old job and allowed me to keep my industry licenses and experience fresh. I actually hadn’t planned to quit as soon as I did, but I got a great offer from my old company (different role) that I just couldn’t turn down.

  93. Did you leave an industry?*

    I’ve been in my line of work for 20 years and it’s all I’ve ever wanted to do since high school. I really do love my job. But it’s in news and the pay is mediocre and some of the benefits (health insurance and retirement) are terrible. The flexibility is great and my co-workers are awesome. A former co-worker who does similar work, but in a different industry, just posted a job about an opening at his place of employment and I’m so interested. The benefits are amazing — probably higher pay, definitely better health insurance, an actual retirement account with employer contributions and way more paid vacation than I get now. But I’m also struggling with how to make a decision about how to change industries. Tell me some stories? Did it work out? Did you go back to the original industry? How does one weigh all the choices here?

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      Not exactly what you asked for, but my advice would be to apply for it! Applying for a job doesn’t mean you’ll absolutely take it, it just gives you opportunity to learn more about the the job and help you decide if it’s something you really want to do. Maybe you’ll learn that the job sounds horrible and the extra money isn’t worth it. Maybe you’ll learn that the job sounds amazing, and the money and benefits are just icing on the cake! Overall I think you’re worrying about changing industries a little early in the process, why not throw your hat in the ring first and learn more?

      1. Di you leave an industry?*

        I mean … if I get to the interview stage, I usually do really well (historically I have gotten offers for 8 of 10 interviews and the two I didn’t get, the person hiring said they liked me but couldn’t pay me enough to move/take the job). But yeah, it’s a little early to stress over changing jobs. Some 9f that is a reporter thing. We literally (industry wide) call switching to PR and communications “going to the dark side.” At least many friends do. So even applying is rough.

    2. 867-5309*

      I know dozens of news pros who have moved into marketing and public relations for the reasons you mention above… My friends who have done that struggled most with feeling like they “sold out” but once they got past that, realized their quality of life improved and they were still able to be creative storytellers.

      The challenge with “going back” in the news industry is that it is shrinking. This means if you wanted to go back, there simply might not be roles available and they are being filled with people who never left. Further, due to the sometimes-stigma of “switching sides,” assuming you’re thinking about a similar move to the PR side of the house, it might particularly count against you.

      1. Di you leave an industry?*

        Yeah. I see and understand all of those challenges. It’s a weird and rough business.

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Some jobs give you the ability to become a subject matter expert where you would have the chance to move into trade publications, freelancing, or a specific bureau in a larger news organization.

    4. Weegie*

      I left the industry I felt was my vocation (and in which freelance and short-term contract work was the norm) in order to take up (much) better-paid full-time, secure work in a different but tangentially related field at a time when I desperately needed a reliable income. I spent several years in the new field, two of them enjoyable – discovering skills I never knew I had! – and the rest miserable, mainly because of one awful employer. The whole time in this second field I really struggled with what I strongly felt was a loss of identity: my original job truly defined who I was (see: vocation) and I had pride in the work I did. Eventually a Unicorn Job came up that allowed me to return to my previous vocation, but in a different sector of the industry that’s better paid and more secure. I’m so glad every day to be back doing what I’m best at, and to be out of Awful Second Industry – but it’s not quite the same. I’ve lost that sense of it forming my whole identity, and now it’s more of just A Job. But it’s a good job, I do like it, I’m happy with the money and benefits, so I’m not sure that this loss is an entirely bad thing – I’ve found other things outside of work that I enjoy! My experience: a new field means new horizons, there is a way back, but it does change how you feel about yourself.

  94. Nervous New Grad*

    This is probably a non-issue, but I could use a gut check anyway. Is it appropriate to post work meals on non-work related social media? I have a foodie account on instagram where I post pictures of food, and I wonder if it would it be okay to post a meal that was paid for by my company (such as food from a team lunch)? I feel like it’s probably fine, I wouldn’t really be naming the company or saying anything about them besides maybe mentioning that the food pictures are from a work meal, and I would keep the focus on the food, but just need a gut check!

    1. Valancy Snaith*

      This is a non-issue. No one will notice or care that the pictures are from a work meal. If every other post is food from a street cart and suddenly you’re posting photos from dinner at Alinea, then maybe it would be less confusing to say “work sponsored an amazing dinner for my team!” but otherwise no. There is no need to even mention it’s a work meal.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Just keep an eye on the backgrounds. Notes from a meeting or other people. We had an issue with a intern doing selfies with confidential information (unpublished data too) very visible in the background.

      2. Warrior Princess Xena*

        I work for an accounting firm. Apparently this previous summer one of the new batch of interns (sophomore in college maybe? Certainly never took an audit class) told his manager “hey, this (public) company’s doing great – I should buy some of their stock!” Based on the preliminary, unaudited financial statements.

        Needless to say there was a brief but intense lesson on audit ethics, independence, and insider training and now everyone in onboarding training is told very clearly “do NOT deliberately go and buy stock in the companies you’re auditing”.

  95. Coast East*

    I’ve picked up a part time retail job for the summer months between school. Anyone have any advice for a first time retail worker? I’ve already bought insole inserts for the long hours on my feet.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Don’t take anything people say personally. People are absolute nightmares and jerks. They want free stuff, they want to take out their bad day on someone else, I don’t know. Just don’t let it get to you. It can be really draining.

    2. cubone*

      the best advice I ever got re: jobs with long hours on your feet is bring two pairs of shows and switch halfway during your shift! If this isn’t doable, then make sure you’re alternating between 2 different pairs of shoes shift to shift. Even the best shoes/insoles in the world can’t prevent your feet from getting tired and I found switching it up made so much more of a difference than any individual pair of shoes ever did (you could also just pull out the insoles mid shift if the shows themselves are fairly supportive and owning/bringing 2 pairs isn’t doable).

      Other advice is plan meals, snacks etc for your breaks if you can. Find out if there is a fridge/microwave in your staff area and if not, find creative snacks. My retail job had basically a coat closet and I never got the hang of bringing food and ended up eating in the mall cafeteria way too often.

    3. WellRed*

      It’s easier to keep moving than stand still. And second the advice to not take anything personally.

    4. RetailIsDetail*

      This is a great question! As someone who spent years working retail and managing sales associates (including lots of students!) here are a few suggestions:
      1.) Schedule – If it’s not made VERY CLEAR to you during training, ask about how scheduling is handled. How often (and in what format) do schedules come out? Are you expected to be on call? How do they feel about staff swapping shifts without management approval? What’s the call out procedure if you’re sick or have an emergency?
      2.) Dress Code – Is there a uniform or dress code, including hair color, body piercings, tattoos, showing cleavage, etc.? Some of these rules can be ridiculous, but knowing ahead of time will make your life much easier.
      3.) “Scripts” – are you required to use certain phrases when speaking with customers? Also, listen to experienced sales people speak and observe how they interact with customers. Is Rob very good at chatting to visitors about the new lawnmowers? Is Dale a pro at getting customers to try on that dress that “looks like nothing on the hanger” but looks great on? Analyze how they’re connecting with their customers and practice using these techniques.
      4.) Loss Prevention – Be aware that preventing theft (sometimes referred to as “shrinkage”) is a VERY BIG DEAL in retail. Pay close attention to how the company expects you to deal with shoplifters and what resources (management, security, etc.) are available for you if you suspect theft. NEVER chase shoplifters or put yourself in any danger! No job is worth that.
      5. If possible, find out ahead of time about breaks (how long are your breaks, when can you expect to take a break, do you have to stay in a particular area during breaks?). Bring some shelf stable snacks (like granola bars) until you know about the kitchen/break-room facilities.
      6. Ensure that you know about parking before your first shift (!)
      7. If you have questions as you train, don’t hesitate to ask your trainer or coworkers. Watching how they approach tasks or deal with issues will help you learn and gain confidence.
      8. Customers can be jerks, and some people will not be happy no matter WHAT you do. Be polite, be firm, and don’t take it personally. Some phrases to use (and repeat and repeat): “That sounds frustrating” / “I’m sorry to hear that” / “Let me get someone (manager/key holder) who can help you with that”
      9. One last thing: retail and food service are not for everyone! It’s okay to try a job and realize that it’s not for you or doesn’t play to your strengths. If you find an industry that doesn’t work for you it’s not a failure, you’ll know more about yourself for your next job search ;)

      Good luck!

      1. RetailIsDetail*

        Also, be aware that pretty much every conversation you have on the sales floor (whether with coworkers or customers) will be overheard by customers. Don’t say anything you wouldn’t feel comfortable saying in front of your grandparents or your manager!

    5. Laura H.*

      Know your product/ area and don’t be afraid to make your own scripts if that helps your process (if given a script, try to tie a part of the process to it- helps both stick.)

      You may not always remember to upsell; that’s one piece I haven’t quite gotten down pat yet. Don’t beat yourself up if you forget. Some encounters lend themselves to an upsell or adding something on than others.

      Pay attention to your coworkers; they’re hopefully willing to help you learn (especially if you shadow on something – in my case it was register).

      In one case, I liked a coworker’s phrasing so much that I use it too.

  96. Bridget*

    How do y’all send out writing samples? I’m applying to summer internships right now and am not sure if I should send links to published pieces, or to send them in a combined PDF and note where they were originally published? It’s a minor question but I would love guidance.

    1. Bridget*

      Also, are there any ethical issues related to sharing content written for an internal newsletter? Although I guess that’s probably something I’d have to ask my supervisor about.

    2. Just a name*

      I prefer receiving .pdf files to links. I work for the government and links can be blocked by our internet security settings. Also we have a page limit (10 pages) which can be sections of a longer sample. You can do that with a .pdf but not with a link. You’d be surprised how many people send really long samples. No one has time to read it all; just send me the best 10 pages.

      1. MapleHill*

        Agreed. Security issues are a big deal at work, so I’ll never open a link from someone I don’t know (which does include candidates at this submission stage, because for all I know you could be fake). Heck, IT sends out fake phishing emails to see who does click the links. So unless the company’s instructions say otherwise, I’d go with PDF. You could always include the links within the pdf if they do want to go to the site.

    3. 867-5309*

      I keep my samples password gated on a website and share the link if requested and sometimes send links to content that is currently published online, such as live blog posts.

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      I include a list of citations alongside my resume so employers can look up individual pieces if they want to. For the non-public stuff, I’d ask for permission from the org to share that stuff as part of your portfolio, and then say something like “portfolio available on request” unless the job specifically asks for writing samples.

  97. MSWIntern*

    Hello, all! I am finishing up my Master’s in Social Work degree (just need to complete my final internship, and I will graduate in mid-August!). Lately, I’ve been thinking that I would like to use my MSW to work in HR. Empowering people with disabilities and helping them access employment is important to me. I also have experience as a bedside nurse, often working night shift, so I have some ideas of what kind of support frontline providers want and need. However, I do not have HR experience.

    Do you think it is possible to start work in HR with an MSW? Would SHRM or some other certification increase my chance of being hired? Does anyone have any advice? Thank you.

    1. cubone*

      I don’t work in HR so big caveat. But I wonder if you could look into Accommodations or Disability Consultant ? I see these jobs a lot (sometimes also Disability Case Manager, Accommodations Coordinator, etc) and they are usually based on HR teams, coordinating accommodations needs and/or leaves (also caveat: I am in Canada, so our system could be different). They definitely call for MSW/frontline experience/helping people with disabilities. I would focus on highlighting any case management experience you have, maybe look at postings and flag the experience you’re lacking to either beef up your skills/certifications or figure out transferable skills. But I do think this would be a good in to HR without needing to completely do a SHRM right off the bat.

    2. 867-5309*

      Not in HR but work closely with that functional area… You could look at the SHRM certification and possibly look for an internship in HR? The internship would give you an edge more so than any certification, and internship roles are probably more open to the MSW.

    3. Fikly*

      Don’t work for HR, you’ll find it soul destroying. HR is always for the company, not the employees. The goal is to find ways to do terrible things and not get caught.

      Work outside of that.

      And congrats on your upcoming graduation! That’s huge!

  98. Emporer Tomato Ketchup*

    Has anyone here ever successfully gotten out of an on-site? I recently got a new colleague (doesn’t manage me, but is in an organizational role within the team) who has been relentlessly micromanaging me since she started; this has resulted in me putting in a ton of unnecessary extra hours to get work done that honestly doesn’t even need to happen. This person is clearly trying to make a name for herself quickly by pushing and pushing and my actual manager is very impressed by the work that non-manager is squeezing out of me (work that truly doesn’t even need to happen). I feel kind of at a breaking point with all of this. I also have ASD and struggle to find balance within my job and within a team of very extroverted NTs. We’re having an onsite coming up that I’m dreading to the point of quitting — not just because I typically hate onsites and small talk and all that, but also because of the messed up dynamic with my non-manager colleague. Any genuine advice would be greatly helpful.

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      Where is your actual manager in all this? Because the on-site feels like a red herring, the bigger issue is you have not your manager giving you lots of work and making you miserable.

      1. Emporer Tomato Ketchup*

        Sure. Well, like I said in my post, it’s the breaking point for me to have to attend the onsite on top of my grueling schedule, and my actual boss is impressed by all of the (make work) projects the colleague is trying to get out of me, which has also triggered my resentment in attending the event on top of the fact that I just hate those things.

        1. irene adler*

          Is your boss aware of the toll these “make work” projects are taking on you? Because, at some point, you WILL break. What will boss do when that happens? A good boss will want to know that you are under excessive stress – and will work to remove that stress. Because they do not want you to break.

          Just because boss is seeing these tasks being completed by you doesn’t mean they are aware of the toll all this is taking on you. Time for a direct conversation with boss to explain how these make work tasks are affecting you.

    2. Seeking Second Childhood*

      An onsite…what? I’m in need of a noun, so maybe just not my industry?

      1. Panicking anonymously…*

        It’s the short name for a gathering or event at a work location and everyone is expected to show up in person and participate.

  99. Panicking anonymously…*

    I’ve been in my new role for less than a month and I’m finally learning about the history of the team and their huge financial issues. It’s really really REALLY bad.

    Our budgets are completely disorganized from a recent reorganization (that no one told me about even though I asked both my interviewers about budgets and reorgs.)

    There are potential layoffs which I’d also asked about during my interviews. “When I search layoffs and company name there was a lot of activity online-do you feel company and your department are in a financially stable position to avoid the possibility of layoffs in 2022?”

    I feel lied to and manipulated. All of their responses indicated the department was healthy and well organized. It’s not. It’s completely upside down.

    All of the HR and Finance tasks I’ve been doing since I got here feel like a huge game of misdirection where we’re being asked who would you like to give a bonus too or more stock awards and all of the people who don’t get mentioned will be put down as potential layoffs…and it’s more cost effective to layoff staff than contractors.

    The last task came with a disclaimer that it was “not
    about budget cuts.” It’s 50% about budget cuts and 50% about another reorg…but I only found out because someone said something to me they weren’t supposed to.

    I don’t know what to do. This role was a big change in responsibilities and I really can’t afford to lose my new salary (I can finally pay my rent and my dependent’s medical expenses.)

    Do I go back to my last company and try applying for other roles? Do I just job hunt continuously and hope I have an offer in hand if I’m laid off in September? Do I list my current position on my resume or just have my last position with a February 2022 end date?

    This is my nightmare.

    1. 867-5309*

      It’s crappy that they weren’t upfront but… This is pretty common, unfortunately. No one would take the job if they said it’s total mess and you might be laid off in six months. Sorry you’re in this spot.

      In situations like this, I’ve seen Alison advise that you start job hunting and if asked why you’re looking so soon, say that the role ended up being different than how it was originally presented, and then focus on why you won’t the new job. If you find something soon-ish, are only at this job for a few months and don’t have any other major gaps, just keep it off your resume and explain if asked. Hope that helps. Good luck!

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        +1

        Also since it’s only been a month, I would just leave this job off your resume for now.

  100. Alex*

    I just started a new job that requires me to be on my feet/walking for the majority of my shift. I’m struggling with back and knee pain already! Anyone have recs for shoes and/or back support belts that help ease the pain? I do a lot of standing, walking, climbing stairs, and lifting boxes. No strict dress code or anything like that.

    If it matters, I’m a plus sized woman (about size 18 in pants now, thanks to some pandemic weight gain!).

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      For shoes, Hokas! I’ve had hip surgery, knee surgery, broke side of my foot and the ball of my foot and I can walk in those for days.

      1. Sammy Keyes*

        Seconding Hokas!! I splurged on the Bondi shoes in wide, and they are like walking on actual clouds, no matter how long I’m running around. I’m your size and have wide, chonky, flat feet and they work great. Once you know your size and width in Hokas, check out secondhand sites like Poshmark for good deals on lightly used pairs.

    2. 867-5309*

      Can you get nice sneakers – Nike, Brooks, etc. – that are designed for maximum support?

      These are pricey (about $75-$100 per paid of shoes) but they have built-in support and are a slightly nicer sneaker. I love them: Carmina

    4. ME*

      CLARKS! I worked in a warehouse and on the days I had to work on the floor, my Clarks saved me… they are cute and comfy. (I am also a size 18)

    5. RetailIsDetail*

      I can’t recommend Dansko clogs enough! They have EXCELLENT arch support (I have high arches), hold up very well, and come in a variety of styles and patterns. Millions of nurses and teachers can’t be wrong ;)

      YMMV but often when people think about “comfortable” shoes they want something soft (like sneakers) but honestly, a *firm* shoe is going to be more supportive and really cut down on pain/ankle/leg fatigue.

    6. Seeking Second Childhood*

      One counter-intuitive thing was suggested by a friend who used to work at a mall store. For him hard soled shoes were better than soft ones. I put it to the test recently and stopped wearing a pair of soft soled shoes that were kind of old but still look beautiful …and it stopped my sciatica flareup.

    7. RM*

      knee high compression socks made a huge difference for me. Something that is labelled strong compression and marketed to workers and/or athletes, not surgery recovery.

  101. Llama face!*

    Help me deal with not wanting a job I may be offered when I am currently on EI (unemployment assistance) and feel guilty/entitled not taking whatever I can get.

    The background: I was recently laid off from a job that was being COVID unsafe. The layoff was probably a lie since they claimed budget reasons but I have some evidence suggesting they actually just replaced me and they were actively trying to push me out because I brought up COVID mandate violations. I did talk to a lawyer and there isn’t really anything I can do about it that would be worth the cost. But I’m feeling very gun shy about new employers as a result.

    The situation: I applied for a job in administrative work. In the job ad they said a vehicle was required (which I don’t have) but they are right on a public transit route and near places with frequent taxi service like hotels so thought I would see how necessary it really is. I’ve had two interviews so far and there are several things that seem a bit iffy. One is the vehicle requirement because they say they absolutely need me to have a vehicle but it is just for occasional errands (mostly to stores which are literally a 5 min walk away from the office). I could manage to get a car once I have a steady income again- although it is an expensive time to start paying for gas and car costs- but having to do so at short notice when it really seems like it is just their fixation and not really needed is irking me. Second is that they seem to have a “start up” culture despite being a longstanding business. For example, they mentioned nerf gun fights and have a day of the week when people can drink on the job for the last part of the day. Those things aren’t necessarily terrible on their own but make me wonder if they also have the typical startup dysfunctions. Also they are really focused on culture fit but I get the sense that they are very unaware of classist and racially discriminatory tendencies in their hiring process. I look white but am not, fwiw. And they have been cagey about the pay and only given a low end of the range- which is quite low- but not provided the top end of the range.
    I’m also not sure how well my COVID restrictions would jive with their social environment since I wouldn’t be comfortable unmasking at work. (Where I live the rules have recently changed and now we have absolutely 0 required COVID safeguards. We are also the highest COVID death rate in Canada atm which is just horrifying.)

    I am honestly not thrilled at the thought of taking this job but am worried about justifying it to EI and anxiety brain is telling me I’m being entitled to be picky about a job when this is the only bite I’ve gotten in more than 2 months of applying.
    Thoughts?

    1. Asenath*

      I’d run. I strongly suspect that whatever they say about only requiring short errands, you’d pretty soon run into a situation in which you’d need a car – and they’ve told you in advance one is required. Employers who DON’T say they require a car in the job ad often assume everyone has one (I don’t, and know just how common this assumption is). I don’t think you can expect an employer that specifies that you have the use of a car to be more understanding than one who doesn’t, or all the errands to be so close.

      And then you got to the nerf gun fights and the drinking on the job! I’d be really put off by that kind of workplace culture, and it sound like you wouldn’t like it either. Caginess about pay, and offering numbers that are low…also not good. You don’t even need to consider whether their hiring processes are discriminatory, or if they’re welcoming to people being cautious about COVID risks. You’ve already got a forest of red flags without those issues!

      I know it’s hard to be unemployed – been there, done that – but surely there’s something better out there!

    2. WellRed*

      The unemployment office isn’t going to know you were offered the job. But if that worries you, not having a vehicle is reason enough.

      1. WellRed*

        And please don’t ever buy a car to satisfy a job. The horror stories I’ve read about Uber drivers doing that.

    3. Anyfizz*

      Don’t do it. Those kind of places tend to snowball into more dysfunction. I’ll admit that I’m a curmudgeon, so the idea of nerf ball with my coworkers sounds awful, but you already observed their lack of self-awareness. I find it hard to believe that won’t translate into the work itself.
      That and the fact that they’re cagey about money? So many red flags here. You don’t want to go from the frying pan into the fire, because that can be even harder to dig yourself out of (mentally).

    4. MaryLoo*

      Do not take this job. A car is a requirement and you don’t have one. That’s all the info the unemployment office needs if they happen to find out, but DON’T offer that info to the unemployment office The job sounds like a horrible fit anyway.

      Don’t have discussions with the job about how maybe you could buy a car, etc. It’s not reasonable.

      In fact I would just bow out now.

      I think most unemployment offices don’t expect you to take any offer. For example if you’ve been doing office work they don’t expect you to take the first waiter job that’s available.

    5. Llama face!*

      Thanks everyone! It really helps to see everyone is reaffirming my gut instinct on this. I’m feeling more comfortable making the decision now.

  102. Me--Blargh :(*

    Both personal and work-related.
    *deep breath*
    So yesterday, we lost my dad.

    It was relatively sudden; he had a heart attack last week and went to the hospital fully conscious but coded last Friday when coming back from a scope test. He never woke up and yesterday, he peacefully left us.

    I have no idea yet what’s going to happen re Mom staying here or moving back to our hometown, but my job search situation has not changed. If anything, it’s become more urgent, especially if she does decide to move.

    The listings in CurrentCity have begun to repeat the same way they did in OldCity. All I’ve seen lately are jobs I already applied to and didn’t get. An article from the CurrentCity business journal I saw on MSN backs this up—it said employment numbers here are not back up to pre-pandemic levels. There’s nothing local right now that would work short-term, though I’m still keeping an eye out. Leaving is still the best choice.

    It seems logical to focus on why I want the job and to move there in particular, but does anyone have any tips on how to address the loss and the urgency with employers if it somehow comes up? Also how to keep from getting emotional in interviews, ugh.

    2. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      No advice, only empathy.
      May memories of your father be a blessing and a comfort to you.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’m so sorry, I’ve lost a parent and know how hard it is. To your question about addressing the loss and urgency if it comes up – I don’t think that you can or should, at least not in a way that could be perceived as meaning they need to take an action (quick decision, pick you) due to it. But, I think saying that you are moving to new location to be near family may be helpful as they will know you’re moving there regardless so you may be perceived as a local candidate versus long distance candidate which could be helpful. Good luck, and again my condolences.

      1. Me--Blargh :(*

        Yeah, I don’t want to play the pity card or push them.

        I don’t actually know anyone in the target area, but it’s better in terms of jobs, etc. I need someone to hire me before moving. I can tell them that I can relocate fairly quickly. Or that I’m planning it, I guess.

        1. Mockingjay*

          I am so sorry for your loss.

          The trend is to leave location/address off resumes. Apply without one and see what happens. It’s the one job hunt thing where I’m comfortable stretching the truth just a little bit if asked (I’m normally by the rulebook): “I’m in midst of relocating.” When you land something, negotiate a start date to give you time to move – say three weeks instead of two.

          I’m also getting lots of remote jobs in my LinkedIn feed. Lots of companies are apparently freeing themselves from leases as these expire or discovered during the pandemic that, hey, remote work really can work. I hope something like this pops up for you.

          1. Me--Blargh :(*

            Yeah, I’m still seeing remote or temporarily remote jobs, but a lot of them are starting to specify that they’re onsite. I’ve been pretty upfront about where I am and that I’m free to relocate quickly.

            Bluuuuh, it’s endlessly frustrating. People can work remotely or start remotely, and these games are tiresome.

          2. MapleHill*

            Ugh, not a fan of just removing the address (or least current city & state, I don’t actually care about your street address) or when people put a different location that they are actually in. It always puts a bitter taste in my mouth because basically the first thing this candidate has done is lie to us.

            There are several other options.
            I recently interviewed a candidate who put “Relocating in 2022” up by his address. That told me 1)He did purposely apply to an out of state job 2) he does actually want to relocate and isn’t just hoping it will be a remote job. He also was able to explain which locations he was interested in relocating to and why when we spoke, which helped. Since he applied for a job that it’s fairly common for us to relocate people, we moved ahead and are at the offer stage now.

            Note in your your cover letter/resume/notes that you are planning to relocate to that location and in your case, that you’re able to relocate within X time frame once you’ve accepted a job. For those not relying on a job offer that have an idea of when relocating, include that date or month. A company is going to know better than you if they can work with that or not.

            Also, while it does take away some negotiation ability, it might make sense to specify that you don’t expect relocation assistance. We’re ok with someone relocating, but would only pay relocation for either an exceptional candidate for a difficult to fill role or for higher level roles where relo is common.

            My condolences on the loss of your father. As for not getting emotional, I don’t think it would come up unless you brought it up, which if you do I would not get into it, just say “I unexpectedly lost my father recently, so [back to job related stuff here]”. I’ve had people mention this and I just say I’m sorry for your loss and move on so as not to linger on an emotional topic. If you do get at emotional, a decent person will understand. Not clear from your post why it’s so urgent, so no advice on that front. If the same jobs are coming up, have you tried applying for jobs that might seem a little out of reach? It’s a tough market now, so it might be less competitive if you can realistically do the job.

    5. Massive Dynamic*

      I am so, so sorry for your loss. Re: your mom, she may be inspired to relocate to your new location after you go. I know the rule of thumb is to wait a year before making a change after a big loss like this, but from personal experience it helped my mother a ton to move away from the community she’d settled into with my dad (they were only there a few years) and closer to my siblings. It’s so much a YMMV situation.

      On not getting emotional – IF you do, just give yourself grace, give a quick smile and apology to your interviewer along with context, and change the subject to something bland and job-related. Probably a good time to unleash a question that you were holding for the end for them, so they can talk and you listen.

      1. Me--Blargh :(*

        Oh, she’ll stay in our state. If she moves, it will be back to our hometown. It’s closer to my nephew and where my brother is now (my sister is near Chicago). Mom’s brother is in OldCity not far away from Hometown; their sister lives in England.

        Good suggestion about asking a question. I usually make a list of stuff I want to ask beforehand, so I’ll keep a few in reserve in case I need a minute.

    7. irene adler*

      OH man! So sorry for your loss. I have been there.

      Quite frankly, I’m not sure how to not keep from thinking about the loss; at least, now while it is a new event and your mind is still processing things. I know I would not have been able to handle an interview after my Pops passed. Not for a couple of months, anyway. Given the need for work and relocation, I’m sure you’ll find the will and strength to do what’s needed. You still have to take care of you.

      One thing: my Mom was given advice -from many- that she should not make any big decisions for about a year as such decisions might be too much a reaction to the grief. She heeded that advice and waited a couple of years before she moved to live close to me and my sister. Not sure if that is something suggested to your Mom. My Mom felt it was good advice. But YMMV (well, her MMV).

      Take things easy – as best you can. Be extra kind to yourself.

      1. Me--Blargh :(*

        Moving might be a financial necessity but I have no clue about that. She said she was going to close her practice and move to Hometown to look after him; now that’s obviously not a consideration. Either way, it’s good advice.

    8. Chicago Anon*

      I’m sorry—may his memory be a blessing. Also sorry I don’t have any tips that answer your actual question, but after a few years of reading this site and seeing your posts, I feel that I know you enough that I want to express my condolences. Best wishes to you and your mom.

    10. PollyQ*

      First, I’m so sorry for your loss. I suppose there’s no good way to lose someone you love, but suddenly seems somehow worse.

      Second, I wouldn’t address your personal situation at all with prospective employers. The basic question, to my thinking, is: Does this make me a stronger candidate? And I don’t believe talking about this with them would help. (Of course, I hope you have friends & family you can discuss this with, who’ll be kind and supportive.)

    11. Sleeping Late Every Day*

      No advice, I just want to offer my condolences. Peace to your family and all who loved your father.

    12. Me--Blargh :(*

      Thank you, everyone, for the condolences. This sucks mightily, but we’ll get through it.

  103. Applesauced*

    I’ve been asked to be on my company’s student intern hiring panel.
    So far, we’re reviewing resumes and work samples, each creating short lists, and eventually interviewing.

    Any tips for hiring interns?
    How do you check yourself for biases? I’m trying to review material without looking at names, but that’s hard and some students include photos of themselves on their resumes.

    1. 867-5309*

      Here’s my approach:

      First, I don’t count GPAs. Others in my org do but I think that unfairly limits students who might be working full time and putting themselves through college or have had a personal struggle (mental illness, death in the family, etc.).

      Then, I actively consider non-traditional students such as those from community colleges. (Our internships are well paid AND include a housing stipend, which we’ll also give to local candidates.) I also ensure that I have a diverse panel of interviewees.

      From there, I look at the resume but will push someone through who might not have a stellar resume but has written a wonderful cover letter. If someone is working full time to pay for school and does not have a home support network, it’s unfair to expect them to join every club and do all of those unpaid extras so a cover letter can really make a difference to ensure we don’t overlook someone in those instances.

    2. Fluffy Fish*

      Do not prioritize students with extracurriculars over students without! The ability to do extracurriculars is often highly dependent on income level, family status and other things not in a students control.

    3. Almost Academic*

      Just finished with our intern hire for the summer. The ask a manager archives can be helpful for designing an equitable hiring process. What we did was sit down as a team ahead of interviews and get really specific about the hiring competencies we were looking for – what was the bare minimum skills they needed, what were the specific signals that would point to an exceptional hire? When setting up interviews, we had specific questions that had to be asked in each round, targeted at different competencies – this made sure that we had a solid, factual basis for comparing among candidates instead of just letting conversations wander and seeing who we “vibbed” with. We also proactively identified where candidates from specific backgrounds may stumble, and did what we could to protect against this – for instance, candidates from ivy-league schools with strong career centers were more likely to be familiar and practiced at behavioral interviewing. So when sending invitations, we specified the types of questions that we would be asking in interviews so that everyone could prepare at least a little. Calling out some of the hidden preparation and biases that can enter the process was really important to getting the team on the same page – so things like “ignore what the candidate is wearing unless it meets XYZ criteria, if so give a tip for how to dress in second round”, “we are explicitly not caring about a thank-you note being sent”, etc. We also were careful to consider the work they’ve produced in the context of the likely opportunities that they’ve had – so we would not expect the same resume / list of awards from a candidate in an ivy-league school (where awards and gpa are more inflated) versus a state school. Basically, we were trying to hire based on the opportunities taken: opportunities offered ratio versus just looking at overall static level of achievement.

    4. A Simple Narwhal*

      When I pick which interns to interview, I start by breaking down the role into its base components and listing what experiences they need or would set them up best for success. It doesn’t need to be too long or specific, I believe the list I make for an internship in my department has about 5. I then put those in an excel sheet with each skill getting a column across the top, and then I list the interns on the left. I go through their resumes and check off who has what experience or skills. What you end up with is a really easy way to visual who objectively fits better. This candidate only checks one box, but this one checks all five! Or this person only checks two boxes, but one of those boxes is way more important, and their empty boxes are more nice-to-have skills than have-to-haves. I find it’s a really easy way to be objective and ensure you interview candidates who at least look good on paper.

      But also use your judgement! I’ve interviewed people who checked all the boxes but were nightmares to talk to, and I’ve interviewed people who only checked a couple boxes but after talking to them and learning more about their experiences I felt way more confident in their ability to do the job (and they went on to be very successful interns). Remember that with internships it’s not necessarily who has the best experience that will be the best intern (because their experience will be minimal), you’re looking for someone who can learn and mesh with the team. (And that’s not who will be your best bud, it’s work style. Like if you need someone to work independently don’t hire someone who likes their hand held, or someone who wants to do their own thing but you do a lot of collaboration, etc)

      Hope that helps!

  104. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    Am working from home at the moment due to my mental state not being conducive to being around others right now (I am receiving treatment don’t worry, it’s just hell on earth) – just want some advice on how to deal with hot flushes (am close to 50 and yep, menopause hit) when at home/on conference calls etc.

    I don’t sweat, at all (thanks meds) but I get extremely hot and frequently gives me a splitting headache and I’m in the UK so our homes do not have air conditioning.

    Advice on how to a) quickly cool down and/or b) explain to others why I’m going to drop off the call for a minute to cool down appreciated.

    1. Kathenus*

      They make some small and even desk-sized cooling fans/AC units that might help, if you only turn it on when you really need it, it can be more impactful than having it on all the time I’ve found. I also have literally stood in front of an open refrigerator or freezer door for a minute or two at times for this very reason. Also for me, putting my hair up in a ponytail or bun off of my neck can work definitely help as well.

    2. Llama face!*

      I find applying something cold to the back of my neck helps a lot but ymmv on how your colleagues would react if you had a cold pack wrapped around your neck on work calls. For a less visible alternative, I’ve also found putting it against my lower back can also help cool down my core temp.

      1. Anon E. Moose*

        frozen ice packs behind the knees can help, as can cooling your feet off really quickly.

        Before any meetings, could you put a few ice packs in an insulated lunch bag near your desk, so that you could quickly grab them and apply to your wrists/behind your knees/under your feet?

      2. pancakes*

        Yes to lower back. Also, can you maybe put your feet in cool water? A big bowl or bucket under your desk?

    3. 867-5309*

      Can you have a fan next to you to turn on right away?

      Due to an auto-immune disease, this happens to me sometimes when I’m sleeping so I keep a small fan on the nightstand that I can turn on if I wake up sweating.

      Also, do you need to fully drop off the call or can you just go off camera for a few minutes?

    4. LDN Layabout*

      Gel cooling pads. They’re discrete enough that with careful positioning they won’t be seen on screen. Keep bottles of water frozen in the freezer as well, those won’t be cooling down quickly so they’ll get you through multi-hour meetings is necessary.

      Figure out with your camera set-up what the best places are e.g. you can place your feet in and out of a small tub of ice water without anyone noticing. Gel pad on the back of the neck before the meeting starts. Keep a frozen water bottle out of sight of the camera but in a position where you can rest the inside of your wrists against it.

    5. Hotdog not dog*

      As others have mentioned, a cool pack on the back of your neck, small of your back, wrists, or backs of your knees really helps. I have a fabric pouch filled with dry rice that lives in my freezer for this purpose, but any kind of cold pack should help. Also, dress in layers so you can shuck off one or two as needed without causing indecent exposure. (Oh, how I wish I were speaking hypothetically!)

    6. the cat's ass*

      Small fan in front of a bowl of ice cubes is great, and you can move it to the side if youre on video. Placing your bare feet on a ziplock bag of ice on a dish or a towel will chill you right out too! And just standing in front of the open fridge can’t be beat. Also, lots of cool water to sip.

      I hope you feel better.

  105. Liz*

    Thank you all for your thoughts two weeks ago when I was trying to decide between literary agents! I went with the one I’d dubbed Agent B, and I’m so glad I did. She really is well-connected and a big deal, and she already has, just in minor actions, put my fears to rest. I really was coming in with a lot of baggage from my former agent, and it’s clearer than ever that Former Agent’s level of disorganization and unreliability was NOT normal or right. This is already a whole different ball game, and I’m so so so excited to be with my new agent.

  106. Jorts for Mayor*

    I’m yet another reader who is miserable at my job, and looking to change industries completely after a couple of decades in the one I’m in (think: non-profit to corporate, and doing a different thing). I’ve done some informational interviewing and I’m confident that I CAN do this other thing, but struggling to get past any screenings. I’ve gotten conflicting advice about recruiters. Some say that recruiters, out of their own self-interest, will just get you into any job that will take you, and that means it will be a crap job, or that any company with decent jobs won’t accept recruiters anyway, so they can’t get you into any “good” jobs. Others say that recruiters are well connected, and given my situation, maybe that’s what I need. But my industry is DEFINITELY not one that engages with recruiters, at all, ever. I have absolutely no idea how to find one, what to look for, what to expect, or how it works really. A google search kinda helped by bringing up some articles… from recruiters… about how great recruiters are. But I don’t feel like I’m finding the job-seeker perspective very well, and the links I’ve found to search for a recruiter, or looking at something like LinkedIn, feel a little bit like stabbing at a phone book to find a lawyer (an old reference that at least some of you will get I think). So my questions for the commentariat is: yes recruiters or no recruiters for my situation (changing industries after a long time, translatable skills but hard to make that visible past the long stay in my current industry), and if yes, then how do I choose one through all the noise?

  107. QueenSusanofNarnia*

    I’m at an officer level in a humongous firm. I’ve been in my current team for 5+ years, and I’m pretty central – it’ll be hard to replace me, is what I’m saying. I’m interviewing for an internal transfer role next week. At what point should I inform my management that I’m looking? So far everyone has said to wait until the new job is definitely mine, but on the other hand, I have a good relationship with my management and I’d hate for them to hear that I’m looking via the grapevine. Thanks!

    1. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

      Just waIt. I have a great relationship with mine, too, but as soon as I told her, she started asking for updates and permission to tell others so they could plan upcoming events according. It made work stressful. I’ll never make this mistake again.

  108. Sylvia Tilly*

    Hi all. I’m just looking for… general advice, I guess? I’m in pretty low spirits about my current work situation.

    I’m an educator in a highly specialized field (which is a fancy way of saying I’m a piano teacher) and I’m looking to change careers. I’m disillusioned with the COVID response (or lack thereof) in educational settings. And since I’m self-employed and pay for my own health insurance, I’m sick of shelling out hundreds of dollars a month for an essentially useless high-deductible health plan.

    What kind of job do I want? No idea. I’m willing to try anything at this point. But I want it to be: 1) partially or fully remote; 2) have benefits; 3) pay a living wage (which in my area means at least 50-60k… which, to be clear, is about what I make now.)

    The problem is… my resume feels like a joke. The two jobs I can list from the past 6 years are “self-employed piano teacher” and “part-time adjunct faculty.” I have a laundry list of specialized skills that are meaningless outside of my field. I can spin some of my experience into transferable skills (I manage my own business finances; I’m good at working with a team because I’m in a band; I can meet deadlines; I’m a fast learner with new technology/computer programs…) but it still feels like it’s not enough. When I browse Indeed it feels like the only jobs I’m remotely qualified for are extremely entry-level jobs that wouldn’t cover my living expenses.

    I guess I could go back to school, but I already have a master’s degree, and since I don’t even know WHAT I want to do, I’m reluctant to waste money and time on yet another potentially useless degree.

    1. Soup of the Day*

      Don’t sell yourself short. Being self-employed is not a joke at all, no matter your field! That can be so much harder than working in any kind of other environment, because your ability to make a living is entirely dependent on your own efforts. There are so many ways to make that relevant to different industries, in the ways you mentioned and more, and it’s not a reach to talk about these skills in an interview – they ARE transferable skills and you’ve earned them. I think if you can talk about that period of your life with confidence, it will go a long way!

    2. 867-5309*

      I could see the small business elements – managing finance, meeting deadlines, etc. – being of interest in a small business operations manager or admin assistant role? It’s a bit tough because I don’t know that without direct experience you’ll command the salary you need (not that it’s unreasonable just that wages can be unfairly low in the U.S.).

      I am 20 years into a career I love but have a million ideas of things I want to do from becoming CMO at my current company to spending one year on #vanlife. A friend suggested I write down all of the things I want to do or that seem interesting – professional or personal – and just keep journaling about them. Why are they interesting? What are my concerns? From there, I’m noticing threads pop up that are helping direct my next steps. Might be a good exercise while you’re trying to figure out this pivot.

    3. OyHiOh*

      I am not sure how much additional school this would take but I’ve seen a few piano teachers cross train into occupational therapy. There’s quite a lot of cross over between music lessons and OT therapy skills, more awareness of COVID/infection protocols, and potentially more stability, especially if you’re working with a clinic.

      1. Joielle*

        Or music therapy? A friend of mine is a music therapist at a nursing home and she says it’s difficult but very rewarding work.

  109. 256 email inbox*

    I was inspired by Alison’s waiting for others folder… but how do you keep zero email on your inbox? How do you archive it? I have a few folders and nothing seems to work.

    1. Soup of the Day*

      I think it probably depends on how many active projects you’re juggling at once, but I have a “follow up” folder, a “back burner” folder, folders for each individual project, and folders to keep resources in to reference later. I usually have about 5-8 emails in my actual inbox at any given time, all there mostly as reminders of the things I’m working on – each of the projects they’re referencing has their own folder for the rest of the relevant emails, if that makes any sense? I would have 0 if I filed those in their folders, but I like to see everything I’m working on at a glance.

    3. Warrior Princess Xena*

      I’m still a pretty new employee and don’t get giant quantities of email, but one thing that helps is having email rules and specifically one that shunts potentially important but non-critical email into its own folder. For instance – we have a secure sharefile where clients upload docs that we need. I have email alerts turned on since then I don’t have to do an exhaustive hunt through the sharefile, but it goes into its own folder because then I can just see ‘got documents – open folder to see which ones’ rather than seeing I have 10 emails and wading through them all.

    4. Liz*

      I keep things in my inbox that I need to take action on. )For things where I’m waiting on a reply but think the person might need a reminder, I’ll set something in my calendar to check in on it.) All emails I don’t need to take action on are archived, in no particular folders. I rely very heavily on the search function in my email to find old stuff. :-)

    5. eisa*

      I make heavy use of folders, with subfolders.
      So let’s say one of the products of my company are rollercoasters. Then it is like
      Inbox\Rollercoasters\Disney\Orlando
      Inbox\Rollercoasters\Disney\Paris
      Inbox\Rollercoasters\Disney\L.A.
      Inbox\Rollercoasters\Legoland
      .. etc.
      This might not be for everybody, but it works well for me.

      When I read an email that does not need any action from me, I put it into the correct folder immediately. (if it contains helpful information I might want to reference in the future, I mark it with a certain category=color code.)
      Email that does need me to do something is marked red and stays in my inbox.
      Email that I send and does not absolutely need a reply for me to move on goes into the suitable “topic folder”; if it is documentation that I did a sizable amount of work, I mark it in green first.
      (=> so the “topic folders” actually contain both received and sent emails)
      Sent emails that need a reply are marked red and stay in Sent Items, until the reply is received.

    6. Asenath*

      I don’t aim for zero, but I keep my email box pretty clean. When I had a job that involved many, many emails I also had lots of folders set up to meet my needs. Because things rotated annually, with some projects finishing up for, say 2020 at the same time the same project was in preliminary planning stages for 2021, my top level was year, and below that there were a lots of folders for each project – I think the next level was target group (plus some general stuff), next specific projects or activities. I fiddled with it until I thought it worked well. No one else seemed to use my system, but it worked for me. And I could never understand people who simply put all their emails in a directory, or under something like “emails”.

    7. Anony*

      My work email platform is Gmail. I archive everything (never delete) and do not use folders, except for a few rules I’ve set up to filter certain emails that I don’t need to read and just serve as reference. Any documents that need to be saved go to Drive. We also use a work management platform like Asana that helps. I usually have 0-15 emails in my inbox at a time.

  110. Equinox*

    Working for a global company that decided pre-Covid no more remote workers. That was put on pause, but is now on track again. I am in a small site, but people are jumping ship right and left and half the seats are empty, the lead for our critical base software is unexpectedly gone (whole different WTF story) and the talent to take on senior roles just doesn’t exist.

    I’m thinking I will hang on until they close our campus and hopefully get severance. I know I won’t be here in a couple years, but not sure how to pivot my skills- I work with one specific software that is tied to specific software in one industry. I’m not a tech person who can do programming. At what point have those of you in a similar situation decided it’s time to jump?
    FWIW, I’m early 50’s and carry our insurance, so need to keep that.

    1. 867-5309*

      How long have you been with your current company? Are other companies in your industry who use similar software growing?

  111. Seriously?*

    Has anyone else successfully made the transition from teaching to something else? Taught for 21 years. Quit last May. I’ve spent this year completing an MPS in HR online because I couldn’t get anyone to even look at me for non-teaching jobs. I’m in my 50s. It’s frustrating because I know my skills will transfer. I write well. I speak well. I taught middle school so can handle just about anything! I’ve had multiple leadership roles. Hoping to hear that others have made the jump!

    1. Soup of the Day*

      No personal experience, but while applying for content writer positions I’ve seen lots of postings for education-adjacent writing jobs where a background in education is preferred (like test writing/editing, or marketing writing for education-related companies!)

    3. squirrel with a bushy tail*

      Not me but a friend jumped from teaching to educational things (interactive displays, designing activities) at a local science museum. I don’t know if it was an increase in pay, but after a few years, the friend was climbing the adminstrative ladder. The museum wanted someone with in-depth knowledge of what would hold the interest of various age groups.

    4. Alexis Rosay*

      I went from teaching to working at an education nonprofit that worked with a similar age group and content area to the one I had taught at. It was really nice because I could use my knowledge and work with kids but in a way less stressful environment. I started out doing a mix of teaching in the nonprofit’s youth programming and working in their administrative offices, and then as I gained administrative skills, I transitioned to managing the youth programming.

  112. Anonymous Luddite*

    Eeep! Does anyone have suggestions on a good book or online course for FrameMaker?
    I’m really surprised that neither my library nor Linked In Learning (Lynda) have anything on it.
    Really trying to avoid wading through pages and pages of ads and would prefer actual experience from you (random strangers who I trust).

    1. Elizabeth West*

      Is there a freeware version with tutorials that you can download? I did this with GIMP since I can’t afford Photoshop. The interface is a little different but the concepts (layers, effects, etc.) are the same, so I feel like I could get around in PS okay if I had to. I’m guessing that would be true for a good freeware version of FrameMaker too.

    2. ArtK*

      I’m about to throw away some 30yo documentation for Framemaker on MacOS, but I don’t think that would really help!

    3. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Try the frameusers web forum. I don’t know how active it is right now, because I’ve been out of the loop for quite a few years.

  113. Ravine*

    What are the best jobs for people battling depression but who still need some kind of income? (Let’s assume for the sake of argument that government disability payments don’t exist)

    Things like “parking lot attendant” where there’s minimal stress, no need to perform cheerfulness, etc.

    1. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Night work maybe? evening or early morning shift stocker at a grocery store? minimum communication with people, reasonably regular work. When I worked in a deli we had one employee that just came in five nights a week and made all the sandwiches for the day.

    2. Sherm*

      I think a lot depends on what uplifts you and what brings you down. If you can do a day’s work but can’t do it 9-5, for example, a remote office job with minimal meetings may work well. But if the isolation is bad for you, then something in-person may be better.

      I’ve worked retail while depressed before, and although one job was tough, another was quite chill — it was a little independent place with slow business. I could read if I wanted to. Most customers were actually perfectly nice. I think they realized that we were just a small place trying to get by.

      1. kiki*

        Yeah, I think depression can present differently in so many people. Working as a receptionist was a great job for me during one of my deepest depressions– having to get out of my apartment and walk to the salon, being forced to interact with other humans, and moving around to clean all really helped me.

        My current job, as a software engineer who works remotely, does not help with my depression. I thought the extra flexibility would help me, but the ability to stay in bed and ~sort of work~ all my waking hours without clear boundaries of work and free time has been hard for me. I get stuck in a spiral where I know I should take a break to get outside, but can I really justify taking a break for the amount of work I’ve done? Once I get to a stopping point in my work, I’ll take a break. But surprise– there is no real stopping point because I could always make my work better. And there’s always a new, urgent issue to solve. And there’s always something I should be learning…

        But some people are completely the opposite and THRIVE having completely remote jobs during depression (you can work from bed and never have to talk to anyone in person) and combust with in-person public-facing roles.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      If one doesn’t mind driving, larger hospital systems frequently have couriers who pretty much drive lab samples around all day

    4. Chirpy*

      Not big box retail, unless you’re a people person, or you have a better store than mine. While it helped at the beginning (any job is better than no job, definitely), I find there’s too much time to ruminate on things because I’m bored.

    5. Seeking Second Childhood*

      One thought is to look at jobs related to something you consider a hobby. Two people I used to know didn’t that when they needed to take a step back for mental health. One specifically looked for and active job to make sure they got the exercise they didn’t do on their own time. One became a baker, making fancy bread for restaurants. Another took a greenhouse job tending plants for a nursery. I’ve lost touch with them both, but they had been in those jobs a long time the last time I spoke with them.

    6. Anony*

      I think a job with a physically active component – not just sitting at a desk – would be good. A friend who struggled with mental health enjoyed her time doing farm and organic gardening work. She worked a ski lift in the winter, so lots of active outdoor time.

    7. RM*

      Delivery driver for a pharmacy, print shop or wholesale food business. Other than the pharmacy (which usually has appreciative customers), these jobs are business to business so none of the general-public/need for speed stress you get from doing apps or package delivery like UPS. In my city, bakeries, produce companies, specialty foods, & alcohol distributers that are small to medium size usually have someone driving a van, not a huge thing that requires a CDL. The people you’re delivering to will not be surprised or bothered whether you leave earbuds in, work quietly & shove a clipboard at them, nor will they be surprised or bothered when you’re in a mood for a brief chat or big smiles about the weather.

  114. I was told there would be llamas*

    Just curious what others think…what % salary increase would get you to consider leaving a job that you like?

    1. ArtK*

      For me, the money would be the last consideration. The new job would have to be better in a lot of ways to get me to leave. Better challenge, an industry I’m happier with, significantly better benefits. Probably in that order.

      1. Decidedly Me*

        This is where I land. I’ve gotten recruiters mentioning salaries decently higher than my current, but I’m really happy where I’m at and there are benefits to being here that far outweigh a higher salary elsewhere.

        Though, to be clear and fair, I’m paid well and don’t have a need for a higher salary (I don’t live paycheck to paycheck, I’m able to max retirement funds, have a good emergency fund, and can afford needs and wants). If I had a stronger need for a higher salary, that equation would change, but there would still be a need for the new job/company to be better in ways that weren’t just salary. I don’t want to be paid and unhappy.

    2. underpaid*

      definitely a 50% raise (so 1.5x what I’m making now), and I wouldn’t accept a new job for less than a 25% raise, since that’s what I SHOULD be making now.

    3. LDN Layabout*

      For me, it was 20% (and in the end, it’s ended up being 30%). But in my case that boils down to I love our mission, the strategy, my coworkers but I need money for goods and services. If I had my new salary, I don’t know if I’d move.

    4. M.*

      If we’re just talking salary, it would have to be at least 20%. Salary is, of course, important to me, but my benefits now are good, including job security, so it would take a lot for me to leave my current employer—my current TEAM, however, is a different story altogether.

    5. Asenath*

      None. I spent too long in jobs I hated, so when I got one I liked, I wouldn’t have left it for any increase in salary.

    6. Off My Lawn, You Must Get*

      I realize this doesn’t exactly answer your question, but:
      I am leaving my current because of a toxic work environment with crappy benefits.
      I applied for a job that would’ve been a flat pay change but with significantly better PTO and benefits.
      However, the fact that they offered at 25% more than what they posted certainly sweetened the deal.

    7. fhqwhgads*

      100%. It’s not guaranteed to be tolerable at the new place. But for double my current, I’d feel foolish not to give it a shot for a year.

    8. Wordybird*

      For me to consider leaving a job I liked, it would need to be at least 35% more + at least comparable benefits. I might consider 30% more if unlimited PTO + employer-paid insurance for an actually decent plan was included.

      I would surely walk if I was offered 50% more unless the organization or culture was truly heinous.

      I spent most of my 20s and 30s living paycheck-to-paycheck and relying on a man to provide the rest of the money for bills that my income did not so money, while not everything to me, is high on my list now that I am financially independent and able to pay bills + have savings + have a little extra, too.

    9. kiki*

      It would depend on what the new work would be like and how sure I am that the recruiting company is being honest. I feel like every company I’ve ever worked with says that they value work-life balance and work hard to foster a psychologically safe environment. It’s only been true once, in my experience. I wouldn’t trade that for $100,000. Granted, my compensation is good and my expenses are low, so it’s easier to turn away from $$, but having a wonderful life outside of work is priceless. I’m working to live.

  115. K*

    How to professionally respond to question “How are you?” from coworkers when I am clearly not fine?
    I have a family in Russia and friends in Ukraine, my coworkers knew about it long ago, long before the war. So this question just sounds horribly tone-deaf to me at this point.
    Also, I appreciate your support, but i’d rather hear the practical advice on what to answer.

      1. K*

        I kind of like this reply, but I’m afraid that “It’s hard time” will be perceived as unprofessional and unnecessarily dramatic. Or am I overthinking?

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          If they know you have family in Russia? Not unless they’re absolute dirtwads.

        2. PollyQ*

          That’s not at all unprofessional or dramatic. It’s a very understated, yet accurate, way to describe your current situation. “Professionalism” does not demand that we be emotionless automatons.

          And I’m very sorry. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have family involved in this.

    2. OyHiOh*

      “Well, I’m upright and present” was my default for months after my spouse died. It covers a lot of ground.

    3. Koala dreams*

      The nice thing with that question is that you can choose what type of answer. A boring “Fine, and you?” if you want, or a more detailed answer if you want.

      I’m fine.
      So-so.
      As well as you could expect.
      It’s a tough time.
      The world is chaos.

    4. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I like “same old, same old”. It’s a perfect empty phrase that means whatever you want it to.

    5. Asenath*

      I always use a bright “Fine! And how are you?”, with a quick change of topic after I get a reply. Or, if it’s too much emotional effort to smile brightly, a calm expression will do. “Fine” is such a useful word for discouraging further conversation.

    6. Dark Macadamia*

      “Oh, you know… anyway, (work related topic change).”

      Try to mentally reframe it as politeness and/or genuine care rather than cluelessness – it might be frustrating to hear, but most likely they’re either awkwardly showing concern or just going through the “greetings fellow human” script without thinking at all.

    7. Firm Believer*

      I think I would perceive it as nothing more than a genuine and generic greeting and react as such unless you want to go into detail. It’s quite possible they aren’t thinking directly about your relationships overseas.

    8. Anonosaurus*

      When I was widowed my usual response to this was “oh, you know, good days and bad days”. It was true but didn’t require engagement. I don’t feel obligated to tell the whole truth to people who are just observing social conventions. People who actually wanted to know how I was would get the real answer. I think it’s easier not to have many expectations of coworkers remembering non work related things about oneself.

    9. just another bureaucrat*

      Something that Alison said on here (I’m going to paraphrase horribly as I’ve internalized it here) really helped me feel like frustrated by this question when people knew something painful was happening. It’s an acknowledgment of your shared humanity. “Hello human, I am human and you are too, I would like you to know that I recognize you.”
      The way to respond to it is “Thank you human, I too am human and would like to recognize you and appreciate your recognition of my humanity.”

      Practically I’ve done a few things once I got this into my head. “Eh, how about you?” Said quickly with a shrug and a return. It says “I recognize you human but my head is not in a good space to discuss and would like to move on.”
      Or in my most cheerful and delightful voice and with a laugh “Horrible! You?” or “Horrible! Let’s talk about those tps files.” Shifting immediately says that I’m trying to move on and don’t want to talk about it. Saying horrible acknowledges the situation, saying it with a laugh says I’m trying to not thing too hard about it please don’t make me. This is sort of hit or miss. It’s not something you can do all the time, but if people know why you are saying it I’ve found that it can help buy a lot of grace.
      Speaking of which the other one is just “Not good.” and then a bit of a pause and then moving right into other things.
      For me the most important is to not let someone squeeze between the response and the redirect and have a half dozen redirects at hand. The weather is always a winner. But projects, work, whatever else. Having those redirects ready lets you be honest, get past it, and continue forward without making you lie or dwell.

      https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/saying-how-are-you-feels-inauthentic-to-me.html

  116. SunnyW*

    I was fired from my job 5 years ago. I haven’t been fired from any job since, but my confidence was completely shattered. Ever since then, I feel like I am not allowed to make mistakes and nothing is allowed to go wrong, otherwise they will find a reason to fire me. How do I stop thinking this way?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Therapy, honestly. That’s a trauma reaction and you have to work through it.

    2. JP*

      I concur with therapy. A lot of times, the first step is to realize and become aware of the thoughts you’re having. Which I know sounds weird, how can you not be aware of your thoughts, but they become so common and second nature that it’s just like background noise in your head. Once you start recording them somewhere and really seeing them, it becomes easier to take them on.

  117. The Girlfriend*

    Would it be inappropriate or unprofessional for me to refer my boyfriend for a position at my current company?

    I am early in my career and about seven months into my current job. I work at a university in an ~artsy~ academic department, and it’s my first time working somewhere large and structured enough to have an HR dept or use a management software system (Workday). There’s an internal job board with an option to refer candidates for available positions. Would it be okay for me to refer my long-term boyfriend for a job, or would that seem unprofessional? It’s an administrative position in a different department with zero chance of overlap.

    On the referral form, there’s a place to describe your relationship with the candidate. Would I write boyfriend or is something like personal friend be better? Writing ‘boyfriend’ just feels so childish to me. I’d also have to submit his resume and cover letter for him through the referral form, and that seems sort of weird to me. Is it? The job is also posted publicly, so would it be more appropriate for him to apply externally?

    1. Just another queer reader*

      It sounds like the jobs are separate enough that this would be fine!

      How about calling him your “partner”?

      I think one thing to consider would be that you’d be putting all your eggs in one basket – if the university got into financial trouble, it could be rough. Probably less of a concern at a university than in many industries though.

      Good luck!

    2. BRR*

      Most of the time job referrals are for people you know where you can speak about their professional experience. So if you haven’t worked together I wouldn’t. And if you have worked together I probably still wouldn’t because you wouldn’t be considered an unbiased referral. He should just apply externally.

    3. Reba*

      Your HR almost certainly has a policy on this that you can look up! (and it’s probably fine since your role doesn’t touch the one in question.)

  118. Keener*

    When considering a new job as a senior professional, what do you wish you asked or considered as part of the interview/decision making process?
    For context I’ve just been offered a position at a small (<10 person) engineering consultant. The day-to-day at my current firm is great (no complaints there) but, I disagree with some decisions recently regarding promotions and am worried about impacts on my advancement. I want to be very thoughtful with this move since leaving my current firm will likely burn some bridges and mean I can't return if I find the grass isn't greener on the other side.

    1. KuklaRed*

      Would you be managing a team? If so, I would ask to meet with the members of the team before taking the position.

      I would also be very cautious about going to a very small company. In my experience – working career of over 40 years – small companies tend to be very problematic and have a lot of turmoil, mismanagement, and lack of oversight.

    2. ArtK*

      I’d ask about a few things: 1) How long is a typical engagement? 2) Where are these? Local, remote, or on-site somewhere you have to stay in a hotel? 3) What is their backlog of engagements like? The last thing you want to do is get hired on and then they end up not having enough work to justify you. 4) Are there any industries you won’t work in? For a number of reasons, there are several that are on my “no go” list and I’d hate to get assigned to one. 5) How do they handle changes in scope? Who gets the pain when the customer asks for more stuff? Do deadlines move or are you stuck working massive OT because some exec at your company said “Sure! Add more requirements. We won’t charge you more and we’ll keep the same dates!” 6) If you have to travel, how is payment managed? Do you have to front the cost of transportation, food and lodging and then fight for reimbursement? Is the per-diem $15.00 no matter where you’re going? Coach class on any flight, no matter how long? (BTDT and that wasn’t even a consulting job!)

      Lots of “what could possibly go wrong” thoughts here!

  119. IHaveKittens*

    OK, so I have a feeling I know what the comments on this will be because I would probably write the same things, but I still want to put it out there.

    I have a job, a good job. I like the company I work for, my boss, and my co-workers. However, some events from last year have given me some concerns, so when a recruiter contacted me a month ago about a job that hits all my sweet spots, I decided to pursue it. I went through the first 2 rounds of interviews and they went well. I could tell they liked me, I gave good answers (thank you, AAM!), I had great rapport with the Director and Hiring Manager. I heard late last Friday from the recruiter that the company wanted to move me to the next (and presumably final) round. But now it has been a solid week and I have not heard anything about scheduling said next round. I reached out to the recruiter on Wednesday and she said that they had told her they would be in touch on Wednesday with the scheduling, but still… crickets.

    I don’t actually NEED this job, but I would very much like to continue the process and see if I get an offer. The job would put me exactly where I would like to be. But the fact that there has been no contact from the firm has me 1. annoyed 2. puzzled 3. frustrated.

    So, I should just wait, right? No point in getting upset because who knows what’s going on, correct? Have I mentioned patience is decidedly NOT one of my virtues?

    Sigh. Thanks.

    1. I was told there would be llamas*

      It seems like the hiring processes sometimes take longer than we think it should…probably no point in getting upset (you can remind me I said this when I start complaining about delays, haha).
      Signed, no patience 2

    2. Camellia*

      Well, this is spring break week for a lot of schools and a lot people take vacation at that time, so maybe that’s it.

      1. IHaveKittens*

        Ding ding! We may have a winner here. I just heard from the recruiter that the manager was on PTO this week. So maaaaaybe we’ll hear something next week? So much for “They are going to let me know by COB on Wednesday.” Yeah. Not so much.

  120. Nuthatch*

    Question: which books or other resources would you recommend to people who are joining startups, particularly to understand the equity situation?
    Backstory: I have found a really cool startup in an adjoining biotech field, and it seems to lack many dysfunctional patterns of behavior that are usually associated with startups. However, I do not understand enough of the venture capital funding process or the options given to company employees to make a good decision.

    1. irene adler*

      Not sure if this is what you are looking for:
      IF the start-up is public, and they are seeking investors, they are required to file a 10-K with the SEC. And then update quarterly with a 10-q.
      Basically the 10-k is a breakdown of the company – the risks it faces, the financial picture, etc. That might give you some clues on what’s going on behind the scenes.
      (Link on how to read a 10-k in next post.)
      As far as making a good decision, from my experience in a start-up: get as high a salary as they will give you. Salary increases will not be on the regular- even if they insist they will be. Factor in any lack of benefits (are you paying for your own health care?). Be careful about taking stock as part of the compensation in lieu of salary. Read the 10-k first. Some times stock turns into a windfall for you.

  121. Oat Milk Market*

    Need some advice!!

    I have been in the interview process for a job since Feb. I just had my 4th, yes 4th, interview. They have said they would like the candidate to start April 4th. Accepting this position would mean a major relocation, so I’m really antsy to know one way or the other about the job.

    I had this 4th interview on Tuesday. Would it be okay to call the HR person and ask for an update? Or is that jumping the gun?

    Thank you!!

    1. BRR*

      I’m never a fan of checking back in. The company knows you exist and didn’t forget about you if they’re interested. If you do decide to reach out, do it next week and email, don’t call.

    2. WellRed*

      Are you just normal job applicant antsy or antsy cause you feel like you have to jump right in on the 4th? You don’t have to start on the 4th just cause they say so (in most cases). If you need two weeks to give notice and a week to get moved and settled say so.

  122. HBJ*

    A bit of a random question that I think fits the work definition: last summer, a relative tested positive for covid and was told they’d be getting a follow-up contact tracing call. Later that afternoon, they got a collect call where the part that stated who it was from was complete gibberish. They hung up and never ended up getting a contact tracing call. They had no reason to get a collect call from anyone else, and I don’t think they’ve ever gotten one in their life. I know contact tracing was somewhat busy/overwhelmed, so maybe they just never got a call.

    So my question is, is collect calling part of the job? Is that what they’re doing? Seems like they wouldn’t get a lot of responses! Any chance of it being off the books, a non-legit way to make some extra money while making the calls?

    1. pancakes*

      We both got texts (and a couple calls) from our city’s contact tracers when my boyfriend and I had Covid. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a collect call from one. It seems likely your relative’s area dropped the ball on contract tracing, and the garbled collect call was an unrelated wrong number.

    2. VI*

      Was it truly a collect call? Was there language around costs of accepting the call?

      It’s possible that that particular contact tracer uses a relay service for the deaf and hard of hearing. Many relay services start calls with a script that can sound weird to people not accustomed to relay calls, and often seem like gibberish. Deaf and hard of hearing people, professionals included, often have to deal with people hanging up on them after the relay operator reads the script.

      1. HBJ*

        I didn’t get the call, but no, from what I was told, it definitely wasn’t this. As I said, the part where the recording stated who it was from was gibberish. The rest was perfectly clear. I have gotten a collect call in error before. The language is pretty obvious what it is. If they said it was a collect call, I believe it was a collect call.

    3. Neurodivergentsaurus Rex*

      I work for my state’s covid response. We absolutely would never make a collect call. I very much doubt the collect call was related to the case investigation/contact tracing.

      More likely, they never received the call due to the response being understaffed, or some sort of mixup with phone number etc.

      During the surges, our contact tracers/case investigators were not able to call everyone who tested positive and everyone who was a direct contact because the case numbers to staffing ratios were just too high. Also during surges, the data entry and tech errors are way up so we had more issues with the health department not receiving lab results on time, or lab reports having incorrect information on them that impeded case investigation. (The errors can happen when case rates are low too, but they’re much more common when the test sites are also understaffed!)

    4. A Wall*

      Very, very, very unlikely that this was a contact tracing call, it sounds like one of the million other phone scams that happen all the time now. Few places did any actual legit contact tracing, so they probably just never got a call.

  123. Jessen*

    So I’m trying to find some specific advice posts for a friend and having trouble turning them up in the archives. I did get the best of links and the basic job hunting/interviewing archives. But what I’m looking for specifically are any pasts posts (or general advice) for job searching for people with no real experience of a functional workplace.

    The friend in question comes from a background where family members are generally either unemployed or working retail jobs. And so far his “professional” work experience consists of one IT job that has some truly epic wtf stories, of the sort that make you wonder how certain people haven’t been arrested, let alone are still employed.

    So I’m looking for advice or links to send that are good guides to finding a functional professional job when you’re not really used to normal workplace standards.

    1. anooon*

      This isn’t what you asked but the book, “Limbo: Blue-Collar Roots, White-Collar Dreams” was recommended here and it completely changed my perspective and made SO many things make sense. Your friend might really benefit from it if he didn’t have professional behavior modeled for him growing up. It addresses habits typically found in BC jobs that can hinder WC career success. A big one was that networking is not “sucking up” but is perfectly normal and does not mean anyone is a user. Probably sounds crazy to people who were raised in WC environments.

    2. ferrina*

      There’s 2 things that will need to happen:

      1) Friend needs to recalibrate what’s Normal. It sounds like Friend’s experience with office jobs (which I assume is what you mean?) is from a really dysfunctional place. When all you know is Not Normal, you think that Not Normal is Normal. That’s where AAM is really helpful. I started reading it for entertainment value, but the more you read, the better you understand where that line between Normal and Not Normal is. If Friend can afford to temp, this will get them a look at how different offices function.

      2) Friend needs to trust their instincts, and not what’s familiar. In this case, it can help to envision what you want a workplace to look like and go through some role playing. I also found that it helped when I withdrew from a job for the first time. I’d always been taught that you should be grateful to have a job and always take what you’re given, but when I withdrew, I was trusting my instincts and my priorities for the first time. It was amazing (and I was so right!).

      This isn’t going to happen overnight. It’s going to take a long, long time. I wish I had some resources (anooon’s book recommendation sounds really good!) but for me it was sticking it out, listening to the most functional people I could find, and trial and error until I found something that helped me feel happy. Good luck!

      1. Jessen*

        Yeah, I mean office jobs.

        I really don’t think he would handle temping very well at all. One of the big struggles has been that he very much wants a stable option, and one of the attractions of dyfunctional spaces has actually been that it’s much easier to become completely indispensible. Without going into too many personal details for someone else, he’s dealing with a background of a lot of financial instability and the understandable nervousness about job hunting from people who have spent a lot of time worrying about being able to afford basic necessities.

        Do you have any specific AAM columns you’d advise to start with? I’ve recommended the site but it’s a big site.

        1. Reba*

          there’s an old one “are you haunted by your last bad job?”

          and a round-up for Slate called “How bad jobs warp your sense of what’s normal.”

          Another one might be “How can I avoid ending up in another horrible job?”

  124. none123*

    One of my kids (young enough to not quite know better and old enough to try to “help”) once got into the app for indeed on my phone and proceeded to go through and use the option to basically apply with only one or two clicks to a whole range of jobs. It was interesting to see what they applied for – and I can only imagine what some of the hiring managers thought.

    I’m now trying to figure out how one would turn this into an AAM question?

    1. anooon*

      I don’t know how the question would be phrased but I’d absolutely love an update on the responses you receive.

    2. MochiCat*

      As a hiring manager, I probably wouldn’t think much of it! I always get a handful of applications for every job I’ve hired for that are just way out of left field. I figure it’s because some people’s approach to job searching is applying to anything and everything, with no discrimination. I’ll keep this situation in my mind though as a possible reason for it. :)

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Same. I’m hiring for a certified medical coder and so far I’ve gotten resumes submitted from a registered vet tech, a warehouse box packer, a mortgage processor, and an Arabic-speaking call center specialist.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      “If any of these employers respond to ‘my’ application, should I make my kid take the interview/offer?” haha

  125. Pandora*

    Having some issues finding what I’d read on this, but there’s something that still bugs me about what happened to someone I know. My coworker’s sister was working with a job coach (disabilities) and she was brought to an interview… and then had to work for an hour for no pay, to see how she would do, supposedly. She did not know about this and ended up having to miss therapy. I’m trying to get a reality check–this is totally unacceptable, right? Is there anything that can be done?

    3. PollyQ*

      Real work-work, like producing actual output or tending real customers, or work-like tasks that were a test of her skills?

    4. Alexis Rosay*

      An hour-long skills test is pretty common and not unreasonable, though they should have told her ahead of time how long it would take to be courteous. But real work, like answering the business’s phones for an hour, should have been paid.

    5. just another bureaucrat*

      An hour-long skills test is not unreasonable at all. It’s likely that even if it was “real” work that it was redone to evaluate, not for actual work. If this was a total of an hour for the interview and “work” then it’s all pretty reasonable in total. If it was an interview and then a long gap and then an hour more that’s pretty unacceptable. If they said it was 15 minutes and it was 15+1hour that’s not great. If they said it was an hour and it was 15+1hour that’s…not great but shouldn’t have made her miss an appointment after, definitely leave yourself some leeway.

      A lot of folks seem to think that anything that looks like work is the company stealing, but honestly, it’s an hour, and chances of producing actual product in that time or doing that thousands of times are just not an efficient way of ripping people off. Not saying it’s never happened. But it is ok to ask someone to demonstrate that they can do that work. I may be biased because I love skills tests (except the automated excel ones). I’m better at doing work than talking about myself so give me an hour to prove I can do it over and hour to bluster any time.

      It shouldn’t be a large chunk of time, 2 hours would start to feel like a lot unless it was a well-paying job, a full day should NOT happen at anything close to an entry-level job, that would be something very high level and very well paid. An hour is really reasonable though.

  126. JP*

    Had an interview this morning. I won’t be pursuing the job. They would provide a salary range over email, when I asked today, I discovered the max starting range would be $12k less than what I was making now. My interviewer also mentioned a lot of joking around with the men in manufacturing and said something like “everyone knows they’re joking” and I was like wait, that’s a ominous way of putting that.
    The other thing that really put me off sounded good on the surface. Hours are 8-4 with a half hour paid lunch. I’d get to leave earlier! But you’re not allowed to leave the building during lunch. I’ve never encountered that before, and it sounds like something that be really easy to turn into “you’re actually working for eight hours straight with no real break.” I also don’t like being told I can’t leave the building, especially for this particular type of industry where there’s no practical reason to have that policy. Has anyone else every encountered this?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Is it unionized? Unions are really solid about making sure you get your lunch and break.

    2. Momma Bear*

      I had a job where I didn’t leave the facility due to security constraints. You technically *could* but it would be longer to check out and back in than it would to eat your lunch in the cafeteria on site or at your desk. By the time you did the hokey pokey, lunch would be over. But you say this one has no practical reason so …maybe they just don’t want people taking long breaks? 30 mins is not a lot of time.

    3. awesome3*

      “Everyone knows they’re joking” sounds suspiciously like “don’t report harassment” to me.

    4. Daffodilly*

      Any job that tells me I am “not allowed to leave the building” without a pressing reason (high level security, clean room contamination, etc.) is a pretty big red flag! It speaks volumes about how they view their employees.

  127. Chirpy*

    My manager is taking my department head and I out to lunch as a “thank you” next week, and I’m looking fo some advice if the conversation goes to…I don’t know?

    First of all, it’s retail, so pretty unusual.
    The two of us are also the whole department where there should be 3-4 people minimum, it’s our busiest season, AND our lunch is on our busiest day (we have a popular seasonal item that requires associate assistance to buy – last week I didn’t leave that aisle all day except for lunch, no breaks, plus I stayed late because we didn’t have coverage.)

    My department head and I don’t always get along (just different work styles, she’s fine as a person) the manager is ok but just nothing in common and he doesn’t know how to deal with some things, and I’m incredibly stressed to the point of having to leave in the middle of the day earlier this week because I’m to the point of physical illness due to stress. I just got a 50 cent raise but I need about a $3/ hr raise to continue to live here (unless I
    can get a low income apartment, I’m losing my roommate, lease is up in a few weeks, no solid plans for apartments, hence the stress) I’m kind of afraid he’ll ask how I’m doing and I will NOT be able to answer politely. I’m also kind of afraid he may have noticed I’m on LinkedIn. (I had to stop actively searching for now as the stress of both job hunting and apartment hunting was too much).

    I’m sure it’s supposed to be a thank you lunch, but it’s really hollow and tone deaf when I’ve been perpetually underpaid, doing the work of multiple people, and I can’t even afford rent on a full-time job. For years.

    1. Momma Bear*

      If you really can’t handle the stress this lunch will cause, the politely bow out. Say thank you but it’s hard to get away during this timeframe because of lack of coverage so you’ll have to reschedule or skip it. Surely he was aware that there’s this seasonal item thing happening now, blink blink.

      If you just want the free lunch, then think of benign things to say. “Eh, it is what it is. So the other day I saw an article about berserk llama syndrome and wow, isn’t that fascinating?”

      1. Chirpy*

        The manager will say it’s ok to not have coverage, because there is technically someone in another department who can handle the sales, at least temporarily (it’s how they’ve been justifying not having night coverage, which at least means I’m not working nights on top of this). Also, the manager just avoids this item more than he avoided the plague.

        Lunch itself is kind of meh, whatever. I just don’t want to start crying if they ask too many questions.

    2. ferrina*

      This is where dissassociation becomes a survival technique. Don’t think about work at all. Ask questions about their lives- most people love to talk about themselves. Even if you don’t get along, listening and showing an interest can help them like you more (even if they continue to be a pain, at least their a pain that likes you slightly more?)

      It would be great if you could take some FMLA for your stress. If you can, do. If that’s too much to sort out (no judgement- it would be too much for me), sometime in the next week, have “really bad food poisoning”. Give yourself a few days to find a short term housing plan. Can you crash on a friend’s couch for a few months? I once had a friend stay in my spare room for 6 months while he was unemployed and explicitly job searching (we had a lease and everything). It was harder for him than me- he’s fiercely independent and hated accepting help- but having that short-term housing allowed him to temp which allowed him to break into an office job which allowed him to get into a livable income bracket. If nothing else, short term housing will buy you time to find a better job. Good luck!!

      1. Chirpy*

        FMLA doesn’t exist, at least not in any usable manner. I can’t afford the deductible to go to a doctor/therapist to get it, either. Plus I already used half my vacation when I got Covid, so I have to save the rest for moving.

        This job has killed all my friendships. I will literally have to move back with my parents in another city and lose this job if I don’t get anything, because there just isn’t anyone here. And then I’ll be back in the same place, I left because there were no jobs in anything I went to college for. At least here I sort of have a chance, despite it not working so far.

      2. Chirpy*

        I don’t have anyone I could crash with (this job has also killed all of my friendships and friendship opportunities even before the pandemic, roommate was the last one and she’s moving to a studio. Because she’s also on every wait list ahead of me). I don’t think FMLA is even an option, I can’t afford the deductible to go see a doctor/ therapist anyway. I’m stuck. I’d have to move back in with my parents in another city if I don’t find anything, and there’s no jobs there for me, which is how I got here in the first place.

    3. JelloStapler*

      And I have empathy for you when the thank you lunch actually creates more stress for you because of when it is.

  128. anooon*

    Are there any generally-accurate websites to check salary information? Alison’s spreadsheet (last year? 2020? pandemic life is a blur) was very eye-opening and I’d love to find, basically, that in a website. Industry is stewardship/fundraising if that makes a difference.

    1. ferrina*

      Always check multiple websites. The way they calculate compensation may differ, and of course compensation differs based on location, qualifications, years of exp, etc. Some of the websites I go to: BLS Occupational Outlook Handbook (US specific), salary.com, glassdoor.com. You can also Google salaries for your position, but always take with a grain of salt (look at the website to see if they are accounting for location, years of exp, etc.). You can also look at job postings that include salary listings. Again, you’ll want to get a larger number of these and look at location and years of exp, as well as the exact details of the job (if there are responsibilities that are particularly skilled that may pay more).
      If there is a professional association for your role/industry, they may also be able to provide some guidance.

      1. anooon*

        Thanks! Yes, Googling was not super helpful, especially since in fundraising/stewardship the salaries vary wildly anyway. I haven’t checked out BLS but will now.

    2. Just another queer reader*

      Is this nonprofits?

      The Minnesota Council of Nonprofits has a job board where salaries are required to be listed on every job posting. Obviously it’s location specific, but might be helpful!

      1. anooon*

        Oh, cool, thanks. I’ll try finding something similar for the states I’m considering. I wish I could stick to nonprofits but every salary is so low that I can’t even consider it. I volunteer for an organization that approached me about an Executive Director role. It only paid $40-45k, only two weeks PTO, and a $600 monthly stipend for healthcare. Master’s strongly preferred. I’m not sure how someone could live on that in this town, let alone pay student loans. Another nonprofit here that I’d LOVE to work with is offering something very similar for a fundraising director. So depressing that we don’t value these essential orgs.

  129. Eleanor Shellstrop*

    For folks who have worked in writing or journalism adjacent fields, what are some good resources for learning how to write a pitch? I’m applying to a grad program in radio and podcasting, and part of the application process is writing a couple of sample pitches. I’m a strong writer but I don’t have any experience with this specific *kind* of writing and have never worked in journalism (part of the reason I want to attend this program!).

    1. WellRed*

      My general advice for the application process is to pick a few subjects you can “pitch” ie don’t pitch automotive repair if you can’t even drive. Keep it succinct, 300 words or less. I’m not sure of resources but have you tried googling “how do I write a pitch…?”

  130. C in the Hood*

    Looks like we’re finally moving to a hybrid model next month; in office 2 or 3 days a week. Masks optional. I’m sure there’s more fine-tuning coming up. Should be interesting!

    1. Dark Macadamia*

      I once had a kid break a bowl while having ice cream. Stomach in knots for HOURS knowing I’d have to tell the parents when they got home. I show them and the mom says “Oh, I got these in Japan.” Nearly died because OMG IRREPLACEABLE SOUVENIR. Nope, she’s a flight attendant and they were just some cheap thing from the hotel by the airport so she could grab another next time she was there.

      The same kids used to try to lock me out of their parents’ room to get extra TV time, and were completely amazed that I could “magically” unlock the simple push-button lock. They used a yardstick to knock down the little key that was hidden above the doorframe, but I still got in because I’d been unlocking it with a paperclip and didn’t even know there was a key!

      They also once got us all locked out of the house but fortunately I knew where that key was hidden :)

    2. A Feast of Fools*

      There was that one time I loaded up the free-standing dishwasher with the [multiple] kids’ sopping, greasy dishes from breakfast, lunch, and dinner during an all-day gig, only to have the parents come home late that night and be horrified because it was a portable dishwasher not hooked up to anything and they’d been using it as a clean storage space for extra dishes. And, um, now it was the exact opposite of “clean”.

    3. Turtle Dove*

      I babysat for a wonderful family who welcomed me in and let me know I was loved and appreciated. It’s been decades, and I’m still in touch with the mom and the older child. I plan to visit them later this year.

      Sometimes I babysat for other families. One was a weekday job for a single mom with a boy around nine years old and a girl around six. I was about 12. I watched the kids for a few hours after school got out and until the mom got home from work.

      After about a week of things going fairly well, the boy got upset when I told him no. It was over something like having a second helping of a snack; his mom had told me not to allow that. He got so upset at me saying no that he grabbed a butcher knife and threatened to stab me with it. I was shocked but stayed calm. It took a split second to decide to protect myself and let him have what he wanted.

      When the mom walked through the door, I told her calmly and clearly what her son had done. I told her that I quit and wouldn’t be back. She begged me to stay on, but I said there’s no way I’d watch a kid who pulled a knife on me. I look back and am surprised and proud I handled it so decisively and calmly. I wasn’t usually confident.

  132. mur1307*

    I can’t seem to find a good answer for this question. For ADA purposes, can a duty be deemed essential if it is not listed in the job description? Anyone know? I understand assessment should occur of prior position holders duties but other than that, are there criteria to make that decision for non-listed duties?

    1. WellRed*

      Well if they forgot to list it that sucks but job descriptions or duties can change at anytime even after you are hired so I would say yes, it can deemed essential after the fact.

    2. PollyQ*

      IANAL, but I would bet that it’s very “fact specific,” which is to say that just because an employer claims something is “essential,” it’s not necessarily the end of the discussion.

  133. MochiCat*

    I’m a first-time manager, and I’m coming up on my 8-month mark (and first performance review) in this position. I can’t tell if I’m just burned out from my first year on the job, or if I’m truly in over my head. I have a lot of anxiety right now related to my upcoming review, but then just the general stress of trying to manage my team during a very chaotic time in our organization. I get along really well with my boss, and I feel like the conversations we have about my job are very constructive, but he never seems to give me any feedback about the OVERALL performance, so I don’t know if he thinks I’m doing a good job, or if I’m handling this all horribly. I guess I’ll just wait to see what he says at the performance review. I have asked things like “am I handling this the right way” or “what could I be doing better” and he gives me concrete advice there, but I guess what I’m looking for is either “you’re doing a good job” or “you’re not doing well and here’s what you need to do better”.

    Managers, is it normal to feel like you’re in over your head your first time? How did you get through that first year?

    1. Firm Believer*

      Managing people is the single hardest part of a career. It’s tough. Especially in the type of environment we are in now. You are not alone. Be easy on yourself.

    2. just another bureaucrat*

      My first year was 2020. I was so far over my head. I kept going because of something my sister told me which was “you can have a bigger impact if you help people to help people than if you just help people.” I basically guilted myself through the year, and the next. I have these tiny moments now of “I’m not completely incompetent!” but they are mostly just tiny moments. My boss is very positive about my performance as are others I work with. (I manager other managers as well which is an extra challenge.) One of my 2nd line staff was chatting with me on Friday and got both of us in tears because she was incredibly effusive about how great it’s been to work with us. That moment will get me through another 3 months.

      I always feel like I’m in over my head, but that doesn’t mean I am. I think that you need to be kind to you, it’s easy to push yourself and do whatever you can. If you have a good relationship with your boss and he gives you concrete advice, and you have good constructive conversations. My guess is you’re doing a good job. You could just ask about overall performance too.

  134. Is This Underhanded?*

    Weird question! So, I hired a career coach (super expensive, I can’t really afford it) because my job search has resulted in zero interviews in two years. The company he’s worked for previously, for more than two decades, is my dream company that I’ve applied to and never heard back from. There are two more positions there I’ve considered applying for though and I’m really excited about getting a job there in the future.

    Does it come across as underhanded to you to work with a career coach without disclosing that? I only had the introductory meeting so far, and I’m worried about how to bring this up without it seeming like I’m trying to get a backdoor into the company.

    Any advice?

    1. wildcat*

      They probably know you chose them because they worked in a similar industry so you could mention the kinds of companies you are targeting and mention their former company in the list and that should be fine.

    2. kittybutton*

      I don’t think so! Their experience is part of why you would want to hire them. Nothing wrong with that.

  135. Seeking New Career*

    Regular reader, going anon for this.
    Several years ago, I was medically terminated from work for a chronic condition. I have been working with specialists to overcome the condition, fairly unsuccessfully. Recently I participated in a clinical trial of medical cannabis and the results are encouraging me to think that I might be able to return to work. I’m now interested in working in the medical cannabis field and would like to hear from readers who do. How did you start in the field, what do you do and what qualifications were required? For background, I’m not in the US, my country has a fledgling medical cannabis industry and my career to date has been in healthcare, although I don’t necessarily want to return to direct patient care. TIA.

  136. Secretary of Nonsense*

    Just want to share a horrifyingly embarrassing experience, mostly to try to blow off some steam, but I would definitely appreciate any good vibes or good advice!

    I applied to an executive position in state government this week. I would be reporting to a member of the governor’s cabinet, and I said in my cover letter that I would be excited to work with the Governor and Teapots Secretary…..and I used the WRONG NAME of the Teapots Secretary.

    I do not know what happened in my brain when I typed this and how my eyes somehow missed this during the 100 revisions of the letter! Attention to detail is actually one of my skills so I am shocked to have made this mistake.

    I emailed the Deputy Secretary managing the hiring process and provided an updated cover letter. I know this feels like a bigger deal to me than to anyone on the hiring end so I am praying that I will still be viewed as a viable candidate. Thoughts/prayers/good vibes appreciated!

    1. Peonies*

      Sending you all the good vibes. I am normally very good at proofreading, but have still definitely had typos at times.

  137. Just @ me next time*

    What do you do when you drop the ball and forget to acknowledge someone’s response after you reach out to them for information?

    A couple weeks ago, I emailed an external contact to ask a couple questions about her area of expertise to help with a project at work (she’s sort of a contractor, but a contractor to my clients, not to my organization). She responded the next day. When I saw her email, I scanned it quickly, but because of the complexity of the project and subject matter, I wasn’t entirely sure whether I would need further clarification. So I flagged it in my inbox and put some time in my calendar where I intended to think through what she had said, and then either ask for more clarification or just say thank you.

    Unfortunately, I’ve been having a hard time the last couple weeks with managing my workload, and I had to keep postponing the block of time I meant to put toward this. Basically, anything right now that doesn’t have a hard deadline set by our clients has had to go on the backburner. I finally had some time today to review her response, and I’ve decided I don’t need further clarification. But I feel so weird writing back today to say “Thanks for the email you sent two weeks ago that I didn’t acknowledge.” In retrospect, I should have said something right away like, “Thank you, I’ll let you know if I need anything else.” But it’s too late for that. Should I email her back now to say thanks or just let this go (maybe she’s already forgotten…) I’m on a new portfolio at work and will be working with this person again in the next few months.

    1. Becky*

      I would send an email something like this:

      “Sorry about the delayed reply–I just wanted to thank you for this info. It is really helpful.”

      That’s it.

    2. A Feast of Fools*

      I, personally, tend to “fall on my sword” when it comes to stuff like this.

      So, depending on how well I knew her, my reply might look like, “Holy smokes. I am so incredibly sorry. I saw your reply and incorporated the information that you were kind enough to send, but I have been swamped and am only now coming up for air. I feel terrible for not replying earlier. Your information was truly helpful and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to share it with me.”

  138. whingedrinking*

    So I teach English as a second language to international students, and I recently started using a new textbook (a UK textbook printed by Oxford University Press, if that makes a difference). One assignment in it is writing a letter to accompany a college application, and the textbook stated, basically, that if you start a formal letter with “Dear [name]”, then the correct valediction is “Yours sincerely”, but if you start with “To whom it may concern”, then you have to sign off with “Yours faithfully”.
    I had never, ever heard of this in my life. Is this a thing? Have people been judging me over two words at the end of a letter?

    1. Just another queer reader*

      1. As a US person, this is wild to me! I have never heard of such a rule.

      2. When I applied to colleges, I did not write any formal letters. It was all online systems.

      Sounds like a made-up rule to me!

    2. Pennyworth*

      I was taught the yours sincerely/yours faithfully stuff when I was in high school, it has been the standard format for ever – but I’m ancient and I would have assumed it had been superseded by now. Perhaps in the UK it is still used in some circles.

    3. Aneurin*

      Yes, I’ve definitely learned the rule that “sincerely” is used when you know the addressee’s name and “faithfully” is used when you don’t (first language UK English speaker)!

      BUT I honestly don’t think that a) the rule is that well known/followed or b) anyone cares that much or judges the writer by those words.

    4. fhqwhgads*

      This sounds like a 75 years ago thing that some people may still recall but few would consider a “rule” in the current century.

    5. matcha123*

      I come across these crazy “rules” all the time in my role as a translator (Japanese to English). Local people swear that whatever is written in whatever book they learned from in middle school is THE. ONLY. CORRECT. ENGLISH.

      It’s incredibly frustrating. I hope your position allows you some flexibility to explain that these “prescriptive” rules are arbitrary and the vast majority of native English speakers do not know of them (and won’t be impressed if someone brings them up). I should add that I am from the US, and the only formal instruction on letters I remember getting was in third grade and we were told to end letters with “Sincerely.”

    6. Mimsy*

      That’s the rule I learned in high school in the UK. I’m in my 40s now and would still default to this. I doubt it applies outside the UK but it’s definitely still a thing here. Are people judging you for it? I don’t know. I do notice when people don’t follow the rule though.

  139. Dragonfly7*

    How do you handle negativity from a superior who knows you are job hunting?

    I made the mistake of asking my Grandboss to be a reference for me.* This is someone who explicitly told me in 2018 that they wouldn’t hire me for a more advanced position (Grandboss only hires external candidates for those) and was happy to be a reference for an external position a few weeks ago. They suddenly aren’t willing to be a reference anymore, have made generally negative off-hand comments, and based on the minutes from the staff meeting, I may be coming back from vacation to no longer having my own workspace. It is normal for Grandboss to take their moods out on the staff, so I’ve likely also created problems for other people through this action. Note – I have the privilege of being in a place where it is difficult to be fired, especially without being on a PIP first, so that isn’t a concern.

    *I know this is strongly discouraged on AAM. I have spent half my adult working life in a department that is historically supportive of folks’ professional development and career journeys, even if it means someone will be moving elsewhere. Both my direct Boss and somewhat Co-Boss are actually enthusiastically supportive and will also be references for me, as they have been for prior co-workers.

    1. PollyQ*

      I think at this point all you can do is be extremely polite and professional towards Grandboss, and hope to find something else fairly quickly. I wouldn’t worry about effects on other people. GB sounds like enough of an asshole that he would’ve caused problems with some other minimal provocation anyway.

    2. Pocket Mouse*

      If Grandboss takes moods out on others, it’s not of your doing so please don’t offer yourself as a guilty party. It’s up to them to manage their emotions appropriately.

  140. firsttimearound*

    Hi folks. My question this week is about providing feedback to people we collaborate with outside of the company. Part of my job is to get rate quotes for a service from third parties. I have been instructed to shop these requests around, so I’m asking 2-3 people for pricing for something only one person will actually get the job for. It’s definitely somewhat time consuming for these people to provide rate quotes for me. The people who consistently aren’t able to provide the cheapest offer are starting to ask for feedback about their offers and want to know if they are competitive or how they could be more competitive for our business.

    I’m a pretty blunt person naturally and also allergic to the kinds of games played in sales. My impulse is to tell them that I appreciate their help but so far we’ve gotten better pricing elsewhere. It seems to me like if we are honest about this, everyone benefits. But when I ask coworkers if I can say this, they all seem uncomfortable with the idea and lean towards more vague responses or just ignoring the requests. Are they right and I’m missing a social/workplace cue? Or is it fine for me to tell the truth?

    1. Oreo*

      It may vary depending on your industry, but I find nothing wrong with telling the vendors that you’ve received better offers elsewhere. How granular in detail you want to divulge though is up to you. It’s possible that once they know what other competitors are offering, they can lower prices, offer additional services, waive shipping fees, etc. in order to earn your business.

      1. firsttimearound*

        Thanks. I don’t want to tell them exact details, just say “yeah, your rates haven’t been the best.

  141. BEC Mode*

    tl;dr: A coworker I wrote about in February has gone even further off the rails

    So I’ve written about Beatrice twice before: A new-ish peer, hired late last October, who has delusions of grandeur.

    This past week, a fellow Senior asked if we four wanted to collaborate on how to approach a project that is new to them (because they’re new to the company) but not new to me. We had a Teams call where I explained what we’d done in the past, showed them the templates we’ve used for project management, but said, “There’s nothing magic about these templates, use whatever works best for your brain.”

    Two of the Seniors, R & J, had a bunch of questions and suggestions.

    Beatrice was on mute the whole time. Never once said a word, not even during the initial “hi” friendly-chat minutes.

    Then, the next business day, R took the first stab at a draft email that we’ll all need to send — in one form or another –to the respective business unit heads of the areas we each are auditing.

    R sent a message in our Seniors’ chat group saying that he was going to take the first stab and asked for input or suggestions. No one said anything.

    He sent his first draft and I suggested adding a sentence. He made a change, then I thought of something else, and we did a few rounds of this before he asked if he could call me. We hashed out some more stuff over the phone and he sent the resulting draft to all of us with a note saying, “Feel free to modify how you see fit.” Beatrice replied, “Thank you. Good work!”

    Then, after hours that same day, she sent the following to me:

    “Look it is great that you and R are steering ahead. But at the same time you are ignoring the experience J has (here at Company) and myself (working in the SOX environment). Be careful not to make people feel alienated.”

    Followed shortly by, “Not at all disregarding what you both have done. It has been great!”

    And then this, a few seconds later, “Just a respectful note going forward.”

    Flummoxed, I sent a reply about how each person’s project is theirs to manage however they want, and that if the personalities of the Senior team have changed such that opinions and suggestions need to be solicited before creating drafts, then that was good info to know and I thanked her for bringing it to my attention.

    She doubled-down the next morning and replied, “It had nothing to do with opinions and suggestions needed to be solicited at all. Like I said, it was helpful what was done. At the same time, it just came off a little patronizing.”

    R and I created a DRAFT TEMPLATE of an email that is meant to be customized, with zero input from her despite ample opportunity and requests for input, and somehow that’s *patronizing*??

    And what on earth is with the threatening language of “Be careful not to make people feel alienated”??? There’s an implied “Or else. . .” at the end of that warning.

    Instead of responding to her most recent message, I talked to my manager, told him about the attempt at group collaboration, then showed him what she wrote. He said it might be a personality issue. I said that if it were, then other people would be treated the same way, but this was just to me. He said, “Uh, she’s done this to other people, too.”

    Combined with her earlier behavior, I’m getting really bad vibes about her. Like, “Something is really, truly wrong with her,” vibes.

    It’s almost impossible to fire anyone at my company — they, rightly or wrongly, believe in giving people a million chances — but at least I don’t have to work with her. We all head-up our own projects, so the only time we would ever talk is in things like R’s attempt at collaboration. I just feel sorry for the staff assigned to her projects.

    (Of course, she has never acted this way toward any of our managers).

    1. Sabine the Very Mean*

      I love to wait a really long time and then respond with a short note that invites no response. Something like, “feel free to provide feedback next time it’s asked of the group.” Maybe even loop in J so he knows she’s speaking for him.

      She’s a grown woman who doesn’t need to be given a golden invitation to provide her expertise.

  142. Looped In*

    How do you disconnect after leaving a job? I recently left my job after a 6 week notice period (I’m in the UK where this is more common) and I’m struggling to not feel like I’ve not done enough to prepare my (significantly more junior) colleagues for taking over some of my tasks. I was also not quite as productive as I maybe could have been while working out my notice, so I feel a certain level of guilt over that (probably somewhat misplaced, because who is ever actually as productive as they could be, particularly when winding down one job and excited about another)?

    I guess I’m not really looking for advice, more reassurance that this nagging feeling will go away with time and distance?

    1. PassThePeasPlease*

      It will likely dissipate with time, my guess will be in a few pay cycles from your last day or sooner once they’re no longer paying your bills. You did what you could at the time and gave at least a decent effort which is more than a lot of people do when they’re leaving. And frankly, any loose ends are their problem now.

      Also, as an American I couldn’t believe when I heard a notice period can be a month or more across the pond! That seems like such a long time!

  143. Peonies*

    General question about interview attire. I am looking to move out of what is more or less a unicorn role (office manager + executive assistant + policy research + writing for a few different audiences). Honestly, my main goal here is to be better paid and I am just beginning my job search by looking at a fairly broad range of jobs.

    I am a woman in my fifties and my geographic area is not particularly fashionable nor particularly dressy, but has a big dose of modesty in work clothing. (Also, I have a significant foot issue that restricts my shoe options—plain black clogs is about as dressy as I can get and still be able to walk without substantial pain.)

    I’d like to have something interview appropriate on hand so I don’t end up scrambling last minute. My current work wardrobe is likely a step down from interview wear—I focus on meeting the written dress code, being comfortable, and machine washable clothes largely because there is no path for promotion and the pay is too low to be worth investing in my wardrobe. My most professional look in my current wardrobe is probably black dress pants from Talbots with a solid green blouse and a grey blazer or black pull on dress pants from the loft with an animal print blouse and solid black blazer-ish sweater from Talbots. Not sure if either of those would cut it?

    Should I buy a plain pantsuit? I was considering a conservative dress instead?

    1. fueled by coffee*

      Black dress pants and blouse + blazer sound like perfectly interview-appropriate clothing to me, unless you’re interviewing for an industry known to be conservative, like law or finance.

      I would not blink twice at black clogs.

  144. WhoTurgled*

    I’m an assistant manager at the box office of a theatre. My boss is a bit of a workaholic.

    For context, the previous night was a bit of a mess. Almost the entire audience arrived just 10 minutes before the show, and I was having a hard time putting in the show while helping one of the new clerks. Things were slow. The house manager wasn’t thrilled about that.

    The next day, one of my clerks called in sick a few hours before his shift, and there was no one to cover him. I share one of my other clerks with the ushering department, and she happened to be on staff that day. I told the house manager that I was down a clerk and no one else was available, and asked if he could lend me her for half an hour that evening. He seemed uncertain, but told me he would figure it out.

    This clerk is also less experienced, but she knows the procedures well enough, so I decided not to tell my boss and let her enjoy her weekend. The show goes in one way or another. Problem solved, right?

    Except my clerk also wrote my boss to let her know, so my boss told me she was coming in. I asked her if she was certain. She said yes. I asked again, and she said yes again. I made a point of telling her we would be fine. But she insisted, and honestly, a part of me didn’t want a repeat of the previous night, so I didn’t push it. I trust that she’s an adult, and her decisions are her responsibility.

    I told the house manager, and he was upset because he knows my boss works too much. He then definitively told me I could have that clerk, and to tell my boss not to come in. He also told her not to dare come in, and she insisted with him, too.

    After this, the house manager told me I need to be more proactive as an assistant manager in taking things off her plate so she doesn’t burn herself out, and also that I need to not let people push me around. He said it’s my shift and I should decide. Honestly, I felt pushed around by both my boss and the house manager.

    I texted her and told her that we found coverage and would be fine. She told me she was in the area and just wanted to grab something from her desk, and would just pop in to say hi.

    Once my boss came in, she then insisted on staying. She seemed a bit… overly chipper at first, which made me wonder if she was upset about coming in… even though I told her several times that we would be fine.

    I love everyone I work with, but my God, I don’t have time for stuff like this. I have a lot of stuff to do to prepare for a show, and my priority is the people I supervise. I don’t have time to argue back and forth with my boss, and I don’t want to be caught between my boss and the house manager.

    I think we need to have a talk at some point, because if there’s an issue, I need to know. Does she not trust me? Does she expect me to push back even more than I already did? And I also don’t love the situation I’m in with the house manager. I didn’t want any more grief from him about the show going in slow, but I also didn’t want him on my case for how I’m handling my boss.

    I’m not sure how to navigate this. At what point am I undermining her if I push too much (and at what point is she or the house manager undermining me?)? But if I push too little, am I not doing my job as an assistant manager?

    1. fhqwhgads*

      I see multiple process problems here:
      1) Why did the clerk email the boss? You’re the one in charge on shift. It’s weird to side-step you unless you were doing something egregiously wrong, which it doesn’t sound like you were. Both you, and FOH, and your manager should wonder what the hell was up with that.
      2) You know the repeated pushback doesn’t work, so moving forward, if Manager is hell bent on coming in, push back once, and then save your energy. It’s not about undermining; it’s about wasted effort.
      3) Seems like y’all need better communication and protocols set up in advance for what happens from a management standpoint in these sitches. If SOP is supposed to Manager steps in to cover, you either make a reasoned case for why that should not be (and what else should be) or now you know that’s next steps, and you do that. If it’s not SOP, it’s just her overworking herself, then together come up with an SOP, and moving forward do that. People you supervise should also know what SOP is when there’s a coverage issue so they don’t needlessly go over your head and make a mess that didn’t need to happen.

      1. WhoTurgled*

        You hit the nail on the head; it’s honestly a company-wide culture issue. It’s a very, er, casual place, and we tend to scramble (and I’d love to nudge us away from the scrambling however I can). However, the manager coming in to cover certainly isn’t standard.

        Thanks so much for your response; you’ve given me some clear & specific things to act on! I will try and have a conversation about protocols.

    2. PollyQ*

      What if you decided that your boss’s workaholism is not your problem to solve? What if her relationship with the house manager is also not your problem to solve? If you’re clearly communicating your needs and the current status, then maybe that what’s doing your job well looks like. As you say, your boss is an adult and can make her own decisions. It sounds like the house manager is not your boss, so they don’t get to tell you what your relationship with boss ought to be. (It is also generally a fool’s errand to get workaholics to change their ways, in my experience.)

      tl;dr — Just do your job, yanno?

      1. WhoTurgled*

        Thanks so much for this. I agree, though the house manager’s suggestion that I wasn’t being proactive enough threw me.

        And… yeah. We all get concerned for her. Her superiors have also tried to intervene at times.

  145. Underpaid_AECMKTG*

    Late to the Friday work thread, and a first time commenter, so here goes nothing.
    What are everyone’s thoughts on a manager telling a new employee not to share their salary with their team members? I have always found it pretty slimy, but I’m hearing about it more and more from people in my company who have been told that. Alternatively, if you are a manager and have said that – what is your reasoning (beyond the obvious) and do you really think it is productive?

    1. Sabine the Very Mean*

      The first thing I’d do is tell my new coworkers what was asked of me and ask if they’d want to know my salary. Policies against sharing this info is illegal for a reason. He’s being slimy.

      1. Underpaid_AECMKTG*

        I am the one whose coworkers have told me that they were told not to share, but after hearing my salary were so surprised at the differences even though our experience is similar, that they felt compelled to share so I could make a plan to advocate for myself. But the whole sentiment is something I’ve started to hear across my company since the industry is so hot right now. I don’t have a better feeling that it just is icky.

  147. matcha123*

    I am in the midst of job hunting and finding it difficult to showcase my experience. Everything I’ve done has been as a part of a team where no one was specifically “in charge.” Everyone’s work is checked and doubled checked by others before being sent off. I’ve been a small part of projects that involve popular uhh…keywords? like “promotion,” “marketing,” “IT,” and “personnel management.”

    But, those haven’t been my main roles. I am okayish to aim for more junior roles that will give me more focus in those areas (ie- IT or marketing), but is there a good way to talk about my experience without overselling myself or sounding tone-deaf?
    For example, I worked for about 3 and a half months with a well-known website to develop their (never used) Japanese language version, do quality checking of remote workers, some planning of web content and a ton more. But, time was only a few months, not years. I did get good reviews, however.

    I’ve come across places asking for a minimum of 1 (or 3) years experience in, say, copywriting. Should I consider myself as having, say, 6 months to a year of experience, even if it’s across different jobs over different years? Three months here, three months there, etc.? I’m really at a loss for what I can do or what I’m good at. I don’t get any praise from the person who directly supervise my work on the daily, but get a lot of praise from other departments or clients when I work directly with them.

    1. fueled by coffee*

      Definitely don’t take yourself out of the running! As long as your experience is reasonably in sync with what they’re asking (i.e., don’t apply to jobs asking for 10 years’ experience if yours is closer to 6 months cobbled together, but it’s probably fine to apply to jobs asking for 1-3 years experience if you have some hard-to-quantify experience across a few different jobs). Just list your copywriting (or whatever) experience in terms of what you did for each job. and let the employer decide whether or not that’s sufficient.

  148. Chirpy*

    I don’t know if anyone will see this, but how do I get coworker A to stop complaining about coworker B behind his back? Coworker A (casually sexist older man, only helps if he can be the hero) is honestly way more annoying than B (younger, nice but can be easily distracted).

    For context, I’m female, in between their ages, and in terms of how long we’ve worked here, it’s me the longest, B, then A.

    2. Kafka Memory*

      If you hear it, tell coworker A to knock it off, it’s getting old, B is doing his best, let’s not talk about people behind their backs as it poisons the working environment.

  149. WhoTurgled*

    If you don’t feel comfortable telling him outright to stop, I would change the subject to something benign that he loves to rant about (“How about those Netflix prices, eh?”). Failing that, physically remove yourself from the conversation (“I have to go to the washroom”/”I need to check on something, talk later!”/ “I have to go now”).

    I was in a situation like this a few years back. I was working on a creative project and my teammates wouldn’t stop talking shit about other teammates, or about creative decisions… right near the offices of the people who made those decisions. I tried sticking up for their targets, but eventually I just started saying “Oop! Be right back!” and just removed myself completely. Worked great.

    2. Chirpy*

      I mean, leaving is probably the best option, because that coworker *is* the thing he loves to rant about.

  150. AwkwardRefSituation*

    I’m a little late to this so I hope someone still sees it – I meant to post on Friday but I was traveling and the weekend got away from me!

    I work in education, which I know has some different norms from business. I applied for a job for next school year about a month ago, with a co-worker listed as my reference (the application asked for 1 reference to be listed). This position is one that is more specialized than my current role and is a specialty that I really want to pursue, but not many schools offer this position so this may be one of my only chances to move into it. I have been contacted and told that my resume is strong and that they will be starting interviews in the next couple weeks, so I am hopeful that I will get an interview.

    In the meantime, however, we have gone through a structural change in my current department. I am in a leadership role and worked with our administrators to set up the new structure and I feel good that it’s the right move and best for our students. But as a result, my coworker that I had listed as a reference is VERY angry at me due to some changes in expectations and accountability for her role. She stormed out of our department meeting (in front of the administrators!), left for the day, and sent me a nasty email. I can handle the current issue with her (I hope!), but am nervous about how to navigate the fact that I listed her as a reference. She knows how much I want this new position, but after her behavior I don’t trust what she will say. I really want to just remove her completely – I have several others I could list instead. If I interview, can I just bring updated reference contact information with me and say something like “I wanted to provide updated references”? Will I need to address why? Or does it raise too many red flags to change references and should I just cross my fingers that she won’t be vengeful?

    1. PollyQ*

      I would 1000000% remove her as a reference, since I think the risk that she’ll say something horrible vastly outweighs the risk that it’ll look bad to remove her. I think your plan of just providing an updated list is probably going to work fine and won’t even raise any eyebrows.

Comments are closed.