my coworker left her baby in the car while she worked, ads that want a “bubbly personality,” and more

by Alison Green on July 22, 2022

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. My coworker left her baby in the car while she worked

I work in a reception/secretarial position in a busy office setting. Typically there are 2-4 of us sitting in a row working together to check clients in. My shift was a midday one, and one of the other receptionists, “Cora,” left as I arrived. As soon as Cora was gone and we had a small lull in clients, the other two receptionists who had been there with her this morning started gossiping about how Cora had left her four-month old in the car during her whole four-hour shift because her child care fell through! She left the car running for air flow and temperature control, and she apparently felt this was safe enough since our desks faces large picture windows and she parked right up front where she could “keep an eye on the baby.”

I’m so horrified, not only at Cora’s lack of judgment, but also my other coworkers’. If I had been there, there’s no way I wouldn’t have said something, and I did end up calling our manager (who is usually at a different site) to inform him of this.

Now I’m wondering if I should call child services or something or just leave it to my manager to address as he sees fit. He made no indication of how he’ll handle this, but for the record he’s a very reasonable guy and he was equally appalled, so I’m confident he’ll do … something.

I know child services can mean a whole terrible can of worms, and Cora must already be struggling if she thought this was her best option, but holy cow. That baby could have been screaming for hours, or suffocated from positional asphyxia, or any other number of horrible things. Cora doesn’t have any family around to help and the child’s father is absentee. I feel like there are no good options but I am genuinely concerned for this child’s wellbeing.

Oh no. This sounds like an act of desperation from someone who couldn’t afford to miss work … but you’re right that it could have ended in tragedy.

Do you have the kind of relationship with Cora where you could try to get a sense of how she’s doing and what’s going on first? Can you talk with your boss to advocate for any support your employer can help provide? Can you help connect Cora with resources that could help if a similar situation arises again? (For example, a local social services agency like Catholic Charities might be able to help, and some areas have charity day nurseries that can help in emergencies.) As someone now involved in the child welfare system as a foster parent, I am hesitant to tell you to contact child services if there are any other ways to help Cora and her baby; the foster care system often makes things worse rather than better for kids. There are times when a call to child services can’t be avoided and this might be one of them, but I’d encourage you to talk with her first and get a better understanding of the situation before making that call. (And yes, a good child services person would be more equipped than you are to assess the situation themselves and figure out what interventions would truly help. Unfortunately that’s not always how it goes in reality … and statistically it’s even less likely to if Cora is poor or not white.)

2. Can I help a junior colleague without overstepping?

I’m a professional at a smallish firm (25 employees). I’m not a partner, and I have no control over hiring.

We hired a new receptionist a few months ago. She seems very bright. She’s indicated to me that she’s interested in doing more tasks. Because of the pandemic, our receptionist job is a little slow; the office is just not really bustling, with so many people working remotely, and I am worried she will leave because she’s bored.

Another person at the office does admin type tasks — not really a true office manager, a junior role. The tasks could probably be done at the reception desk, like making sure supplies are ordered, light scheduling, sending out bills once a month (not the accounting part — literally just sending), etc. That person just gave notice. I am worried that my firm will hire someone new for that role who will be a disaster. (The person who just gave notice was a bit of a disaster.) I’m not particularly confident in my firm’s ability to judge talent. We seem to hire whoever happens to apply for admin roles so that we don’t have to deal with interviewing multiple people, and you can imagine how that works out.

I really want to pull the receptionist decide, and say, “Look — there’s an opportunity for you here, if you’re interested in a bigger role. Why don’t you go to the hiring partner, and say, ‘I’d like to take on some of the tasks of the office admin role. I’m organized, dependable, and bright, and I’d like to take on X, Y, and Z. (And, oh, you should also pay me more for taking on a bigger role.)’”

Ideally, I would just be able to go to the hiring partner myself and suggest this, but based on past experiences, that would probably fall on deaf ears. (Yes, that is a bigger separate problem for another day.) Would I be overstepping to put the idea in the receptionist’s head? I have had minimal interaction with her, and she does not report to me. Part of me fears I should just keep my mouth shut and stay out of it because it’s not my business and hiring is not my role. But the other part of me says I absolutely would have killed for someone to clue me in to an opportunity like this when I was starting out. (And, selfishly, I would like someone to be in the office admin role who is actually capable of doing it.)

It’s not overstepping. Talk to her! It would be overstepping if she didn’t sound interested and you kept pushing it, or if you arranged it behind her back without seeing if she were even interested. But it’s not overstepping to tell her about an opportunity and encourage her to pursue it if it appeals to her. This is the kind of support that can really help a junior person’s career — do it!

3. Job ads that want a “bubbly personality”

Should the term “bubbly personality” really be in a job ad? Does it ever get used in ads that aren’t for roles that tend to be dominated by women?

I am a nurse looking for a new role and I see this phrase frequently used, particularly in roles for smaller practices and clinics, often those requiring a more customer service type of role (e.g., cometic surgery, ophthalmics, etc.). It seems a very gendered term (though of course there are men out there with “bubbly personalities”) but I could never see it being used for, say, a civil engineer or a lawyer. What’s wrong with “personable” or “good customer service”? Is this my issue with how I perceive this phrase or does this phrase not belong in a professional job ad?

Yeah, it’s a highly gendered word that’s nearly exclusively applied to women and, as such, shouldn’t end up in job ads. There are lots of alternatives that would be better choices, like warm, friendly, engaging, enthusiastic, or customer-focused.

4. New job’s health insurance wouldn’t start for two months

I have been searching for a new job for about a year, and after a few disappointments, I have been told to expect an offer from a company’s HR soon! I am not 100% sure if I will take the role, and part of that is due to what HR told me in my screener about benefits. They said that health insurance coverage starts after two months of employment. I have a chronic illness that is in remission due to having adequate health coverage for my expensive medication. Is this the kind of thing that employers will negotiate? Having no insurance is a non-starter for me, but a screening interview didn’t feel like the moment to start that conversation.

You can certainly ask. They might be rigid about it or they might not — but if they are, you might be to negotiate for them to cover the costs of an interim plan that you’d set up yourself for those two months — which could be COBRA coverage from your old job, a marketplace plan, or a short-term policy. (Short-term policies aren’t always great so look carefully at what you’re buying if you go that route.)

You also don’t need to mention having a chronic illness; it’s enough to simply say, “I’m not comfortable being without any health insurance for two months, so in order to accept the offer I’d need X.” (Because most people wouldn’t — and shouldn’t! — be comfortable with that. I don’t know what employers who do this are thinking; it’s profoundly crappy.)

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    For letter #1, please focus on advice to the letter-writer rather than debating the choices you believe Cora should or shouldn’t have made.

  2. Artemesia*

    #1. This would so totally blow someone’s life up who is already hanging by her fingernails that I’d be looking for another solution. Maybe talk with her and let her know it cannot happen again and why it is so dangerous. Those 53 dead immigrants were in an air conditioned truck – but the AC stopped working.

    And it would be really noble to try to help her identify some emergency baby sitting services she could use — COVID has made everything crazy though and nurseries that were once available may not be so anymore. Tough tough situation.

    1. Wendy*

      I’d also want to get some more clarification before freaking out. Yes, obviously her choice was not the best solution – but if she had (for example) a baby monitor in the car and a direct line of sight to her baby, this doesn’t seem any different to me than leaving her kid in a closed office within earshot – also not ideal, but she’d be able to see and hear if there were any issues. I could see that being a “least bad option” kind of thing, especially if she’s stressed out and didn’t have time to plan anything else.

      1. PollyQ*

        The difference is that a room in an office isn’t a target for theft the way a car is and isn’t prone to have its internal temperature shoot up in a short amount of time if the AC cuts out. Yes, maybe constant oversight would mitigate that well enough, and in fact, the baby was fine, but it’s not at all a comparable level of risk.

        1. Snarkaeologist*

          It happened recently with a man and his elderly mother who were homeless. The mother stayed in the car while the son worked, but she died because the ac went out while she was sleeping. I think people underestimate how quickly a hot car can turn into a death trap.

          1. quill*

            Yeah. The AC only does so much and it relies on the car having gas. And infants especially are fragile in terms of temperature to begin with.

          2. Anona*

            Yes. The answer is disturbing to me as are many of the comments. The actual victim is THE BABY. Not the mother.

            And btw, FOSTER PARENTS are mandated reporters.

            1. Raising A Legal Issue*

              When I lived in California some 25+ years ago, ALL ADULTS were legally required to report possible abuse cases—and yes, that included ‘edge’ cases where you weren’t sure if it constituted child abuse. I’d recommend OP check state law; s/he may not have any legal choice but to report.

              1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

                I am in California and this is not the case. Only certain roles/jobs are mandated reporters. We don’t know if OP is in one of them. I am, however I do not work with children so I don’t remember the details of if I suspect abuse but it’s not directly of children I *work with* [which wouldn’t apply in this specific situation], if the mandate applies. Bleargh. All that aside, even if the OP is not a mandated reporter, OP needs to decide if they are reporting it to CPS or not. Obviously one feels for Cora being in a safe spot. HOWEVER one possible outcome of *not* reporting this to CPS, but rather just letting her manager talk to her, is that next time Cora will just leave the baby at home alone. This situation is bad and without more information, my inclination would be to report.

                1. Raising A Legal Issue*

                  Thanks for the update; I had wondered if they changed the law. My director at the time told me CPS was being overwhelmed with calls from the general public reporting issues that didn’t require CPS intervention (including the situation I was required to report- which is why I remember all this.)

                  I’d still recommend the OP check local laws, just in case.

                3. What She Said*

                  PollyQ: I would interpret that to mean that the responsibility is not limited to children you work with, but I’m no kind of expert.

                  The responsibility lies within the scope of the work, only. Been a mandated reporter in my job for over 20 years. Have made some reports myself.

                  Also, OP cannot file a CPS report on this incident. She did not witness it. You can’t report based on second hand information. The person witnessing, in this case the co-workers, are ones who can report it.

                4. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

                  @WhatSheSaid, that’s not true at least in California. You can report secondhand information and CPS will respond. (I have done so based on something my child heard at school from another child.)

              1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

                Literally not. We have no idea of the backstory of what led Cora to do this. All we know is a baby left unattended in a car for 4 hours.

                1. Erica*

                  I don’t need to know any details to know that every mother in America who isn’t seriously rich is a victim of our country’s awful head-in-the-sand, you-figure-it-out attitude toward child care.

                  That doesn’t mean Cora made the right choice. As you say, we don’t know her story. But I have a hard time picturing this happening in, say, France.

            3. Etti*

              I know foster care is not ideal but this parent abandoned her baby for 4 hours. Without citing all the scary scenarios, the poor thing should have been fed. Foster care might not be ideal, but to claim they would be worse than this parent is ridiculous.

              1. Leenie*

                How do you know the baby wasn’t fed for four hours? I’m not arguing that this was a safe situation for the baby. But it seems more likely than not that the mother ran out to the parking lot periodically.

              2. Coffee Nut*

                So what should she have done? Lost her job? Become homeless? Sleeping under a bridge is safer? Baby starving is safer? Why do we immediately jump to judging the mother and not the fact that we’re the only “developed” nation where this happens?

      2. Heat Wave*

        If the car runs out of gas, or the a/c stops for any reason it is a lot different. I am in Texas where the highs have been over 100 for the last month. If the baby is sleeping and Cora is busy at work, a baby monitor will not alert any one in time. There is no way to make a dangerous idea like this less dangerous.

        1. Anona*

          That baby would have died if the air conditioning went out. Babies under a year are not supposed to be in car seats more than two hours straight because of positional asphyxiation. Personally I would have called the cops that day. If Mom thinks this is OK it may not even be the first time. It is child neglect pure and simple to leave an infant alone for four hours. It does not matter if you can see the car.

          At the very least I’d tell this mother that it’s very dangerous and if you see it happens again you are calling the cops.

          The BABY is what is important here. It’s illegal to leave a baby in a car. It’s illegal to leave a baby alone for hours. These laws were made to prevent things like this. It’s wrong to focus more on the welfare of the mother, instead of the actual infant who was intentionally left IN A CAR, tied down, for four hours. And who knows if it’s the first time. I’m literally shocked. Lucky for this mom, this did not become another horrific news story. SMDH.

          1. Ellie*

            You’re correct. It’s a horrible situation for everyone involved, one that I cannot imagine going through myself, but the welfare of the baby has got to come first. I’m a mandated reporter, and if I found out about what had happened after the fact I’d be on the portal to ChildLine in a heartbeat. It’s literally abuse. As heartbreaking as the reasons likely are behind it, abuse for children cannot be tolerated. I’ve read this site for years and this is the first time I strongly disagree with the advice given by Alison. The foster care system can absolutely be a nightmare, but 1) the goal of CPS is not to jump to immediately taking kids away and 2) it’s also a nightmare to imagining this continuing. If I was OP, I’d report to child protective services immediately.

            1. jasmine*

              If mom’s only other option was to leave the baby at home alone, this isn’t abuse anymore than someone not being able to afford food for their kids is child neglect.

              Yes the welfare of the baby is important, but the point about Alison’s comment on the foster system is that being in the foster system is immensely harmful to the child. There’s a real concern about the harm it would do to the baby. In some cases the foster care system is the better of two evils and children should be taken away. But I’m not sure why OP should assume this is one of those cases before even talking to her coworker and potentially seeing if coworker can/will find alternatives if she’s given some options.

            2. jasmine*

              If the coworker’s only other option was to leave the baby home alone, this isn’t child abuse anymore than someone not being able to afford to feed their kids is neglect.

              Of course the welfare of the child is important, but the point of Alison’s comment about foster care is that the foster care system can be harmful to the child. There are cases where taking kids away is the better of two evils. But why should OP assume that before she’s even talked to her coworker or potentially seen if her coworker does something different if given other options.

              1. jadaessencemall*

                This is a heartbreaking circumstance and we can assume that the parent felt there were no other options. I agree that the OP should start by approaching their employer about instating some reasonable measures for last minute issues like this. I can only guess that sick days, PTO, flex hours, etc weren’t an option for this parent since she resorted to leaving an infant unattended in a car on a day hot enough to necessitate AC.
                I’ll say as someone who works within the foster system, it is possible to alert child protective services of this instance without directly and immediately incurring the risk of child removal. In my experience, it takes between two and four documented and corroborated CPS reports for a child to be removed and placed in foster care. Of course, this may vary by jurisdiction (and race and class certainly influence these decisions) but in my experience, the first step CPS would take–if they deem any action necessary–is opening a case and perhaps assigning a case planner to check-in on the child’ safety on a monthly basis and offer resources.
                I will also offer that in addition to my experience with child welfare, my cousin’s infant of a similar age recently died when my cousin left the child while she worked. It is heart-wrenching and can occur even in a short time, even not in a car/car seat, even if there are no other options, even if it is the first time the child was left.

                1. Sandgroper*

                  I’m not sure about in America, but in Australia this would result on criminal charges. Which would then necessitate more child care demands and time off work (for a person who cannot afford it clearly). It would also result in a quick deep dive into the child and families circumstances and may result in supervision orders (but unlikely to result in removal of the child quickly, unless there’s other high risk issues happening and no resolution via a supervision plan).

                  While avoiding dobbing some one in for more harm is not ideal, I’d personally prefer a small chat with the staff member first. But now that the OP has alerted their manager I’d leave this be this time, but if it happens again I’d a) bring the baby in from the car with the parent on the next occasion, and b) have a long cup of tea with the parent and say “hrm, this isn’t working, I remember this being a problem in July, so I wrote up a list of options, but I’m sure you have others too, but here it is just in case, because this really isn’t cricket I’m sorry to say and I’d hate to see you separated from your baby”… but ringing CPS straight up now might be premature. If this is a first time parent, in desperate straits, then some gentle nudging and a recommendation to attend a parenting or baby class is probably wise. But never, ever, let them leave the baby in the car on your time again – bring that baby in, over and over and over if you have to.

          2. Starbuck*

            I wouldn’t call the cops, but manager/supervisor should have been told so that she could be sent home immediately.

            1. Princesss Sparklepony*

              Or let her bring the baby inside and then send her home early. Sometimes there is overlap in shifts or non busy times where they can get by short handed. With the caveat that she needs to find emergency daycare in future.

              The other workers knew the situation, I’m surprised someone didn’t think about a short term one time solution.

      3. Random Internet Stranger*

        In addition to the other risks mentioned (car running out of gas, AC issue, car theft), it isn’t safe to leave a baby in a car seat for that long period. Positional asphyxiation is a risk. If the baby were, say, in a nearby office, presumably they could have been on a safe sleep surface (Pack and Play, bassinet, etc.).

        What I am confused about though is she must have needed to attend to the baby during that time? At four months, babies have longer awake times in which they need interaction… and food. My 4.5 month old baby wouldn’t sleep for four hours during the day and not need me!

        1. Observer*

          What I am confused about though is she must have needed to attend to the baby during that time? At four months, babies have longer awake times in which they need interaction… and food. My 4.5 month old baby wouldn’t sleep for four hours during the day and not need me!

          That’s a really, really good point. If Cora was able to stay in the office all that time without going out once, that’s a really bad sign. 4.5 months and she didn’t need to eat once? Is the baby being fed?

        2. Just Another Zebra*

          I had the same thought – diaper changes, feeding times, crying because their foot is itchy… babies that young really do need constant supervision. It sounds like Cora is in an impossibly tough situation, but this wasn’t the answer.

      4. Lilo*

        My sister has to go to homicide scenes as part of her job. She says the very, very worst one she ever went to was a baby left in a hot car. She was absolutely haunted.

        There are absolutely stories about desperate parents trying this and getting it wrong and the kids dying.

        This absolutely 100% cannot happen again. I know calling CPS seems like bringing down the hammer, but she just cannot have this as a solution. And if she or anyone else does this again, no, they need to leave immediately and/or the cops need to be called. This is something that is immediately and horrifically dangerous. There is absolutely no margin for error whatsoever, this can kill a child within minutes.

        1. darcy*

          calling the police also seems to come with a high chance of the child and/or parent being killed within minutes.

            1. Rosie*

              I suppose it really depends but I think that the possibility is something certain populations are right to be considering in today’s climate ‍♀️

              1. Observer*

                The risk is real, but way over-stated.

                But that’s why the OP should call CPS. No, they are not great. But if you want to talk about “least bad option”, this is it.

                1. Coffee Nut*

                  You have no idea what CPS involvement is like. I’m so saddened at the number of commenters on her jumping on to judging the mother and calling CPS as the first option. We as a society would rather have someone’s baby ripped away from them and thrown into the foster system, possibly traumatized for life, than offer help to the mother. I honestly am near tears that this is America today.

            2. pancakes*

              I think it is helpful for people who are inclined to be quick to get police involved that the stakes can be life or death, depending on the context and the individuals involved. No one is helped by pretending that shouldn’t ever be part of the thought process. When a baby is in immediate danger, obviously that is going to tilt the scale towards immediate intervention. When the danger is in the past and remains very upsetting to people, maybe that tilts the scale in the other direction, towards a conversation without authorities first.

              1. Observer*

                True. But the suggestion was not to call the cops NOW, but *if it happens again* – while the kid is in the car.

                1. pancakes*

                  Not only do many people in the comments want the cops and/or CPS called now, they think of themselves as more caring than anyone else around for that.

            3. Broadway Duchess*

              “Oh, come on.” is glib and unhelpful.
              “This isn’t true or helpful” is dismissive amd unhelpful.

              Unfortunately, for a lot of people this is true and is something to consider before immediately calling the police, especially if the intervention is meant to help the infant.

              1. Criminologist*

                It’s something to keep in mind before calling the police, but the risk of anyone being killed by police in a situation like this is astronomically low.

                1. French Army Syphilis Epidemic 1495*

                  The risk of being killed by police is only astronomically low if all people involved are white, cis, have absolutely nothing anywhere near them that could be interpreted as a weapon, and have no barriers to compliance like mental illness, intellectual/developmental disability, intoxication, or high emotion.

                  Calling the police is always a gamble of where you’re going to land on the spectrum of police response, with “the police don’t care and never show up” at one end and “the police kill three people and somebody’s dog” on the other.

                2. Parakeet*

                  There’s also a lot of risks that are less low, like Cora or someone else being brutalized by the cops, or ending up with inflated charges, or losing housing (either due to a conviction, or to not being able to make rent because she’s in jail). None of which help the baby, either. People tend to focus on murders by cops for obvious reasons, but there’s a lot of other awful less-lethal things cops do to people (and before anyone gets on my case about overstating risk, I will say that I have personal experience with some of those things).

          4. EPLawyer*

            But if the kid is left in the car there is a STRONG possibility that some passerby might see the child in the car, not realize the car is running and Mom is in the line of sight, so they call the cops. So there is a risk of cops being called anyway.

            Childcare is nuts and with no family support Mom is in a tight situation. But it will only get worse if this goes on because at some point someone will call the cops or CPS. I would say, if the office isn’t busy and there is a quiet safe back room that could be used. If Mom starts having a lot of “emergencies” then the boss can talk to her about how this is supposed to be a rare thing, not a regular thing.

            1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

              Tbh someone might also try to open the car or break the window thinking that the baby was left accidentally and is in danger.

          5. Public Safety Executive*

            I understand that may be your perception and lived opinion, but your view is inaccurate in this specific context.

            In encounters such as the one described, the primary goal is ensuring the physical safety of the child. The caregiver who left them in that position, is the person who is endangering the child, not the police.

            Speaking as a 22+ year public safety professional with a decade plus in law enforcement in a past life.

          6. Temperance*

            Don’t discourage people from calling the police when they see babies left in cars, FFS. The baby is more likely to die from an issue with being left unsupervised in a car in the summer.

            Encourage better policing. Don’t discourage people from reporting crimes and dangerous situations. That will get people killed and will lead to children in unsafe situations.

            1. metadata minion*

              In this case it seems like a particular overreaction since you do actually know whose baby it is and can just talk to them. Calling the police will almost certainly not help either the adult or child except in the most immediate of terms.

              Yes, if you see a baby in an unknown car, you don’t really have any other choice. But here, you have options.

              1. MCMonkeyBean*

                ^Big yes to this. Sometimes a cop might *need* to be called just because they can get into the car. There are other, better options in this particular case.

              3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

                Yes, this. In the moment insist that the parent/guardian get the child out of the car immediately. Escalate it to the police if, for some reason, that doesn’t work. But there is the possibility of calling a non-emergency agency to report it if it KEEPS happening. If she’s doing it at work, she might also be doing it at the grocery store or out shopping…she just needs to know that it’s not okay ever.

              4. Anona*

                I’ve seen unconscious babies due to extreme parental neglect like this. Or drowning. If a parent does this ONCE it’s likely they have done it before or will do it again. I’m kind of sick that the mom in this scenario is getting a pass and being put ahead of the BABY. As someone who has dealt in person with this, NO parental excuse is enough. I’m very worried about this baby. I can’t even read anymore. I’m a mandated reporter and this is highly reportable.

                1. Nameless in Customer Service*

                  I don’t think people are giving her a pass, they’re including in their analysis how desperate someone might have to be to pull a stunt like this. Your framing, quite sensibly influenced by your professional experience, is baby vs parent, but I think we should at least take a look at the possibility that helping the mother will help the baby, before we bring in the literal big guns. And by a “look” I mean something potentially as brief as a 30 second conversation with Cora to determine if she’s willing to accept help or determined to risk her child’s life for convenience.

              5. Raising A Legal Issue*

                When I lived in California some 25+ years ago, ALL ADULTS were legally required to report possible abuse cases, even if you weren’t sure it was abuse. Child Services would make that determination, not you. You had to report what you believed to be one-time incidents, even when you learned about them after-the-fact. You had NO discretion.

                OP needs to check state law; s/he may be legally required to report ASAP.

            2. Rolly*

              Maybe don’t discourage people from calling for help (EMS or even the fire department) but police are about crime. Is the issue stopping a crime or helping someone? Those may overlap but they are not the same.

              911 may not help – they may send police. I get it. But thinking “police” means people are thinking “crime.”

              Heck, if it was hot out and I saw a baby suffering I’d start yelling around for other people (partially to cover my ass) then take action myself – try to open a door or break a window – before calling police. YMMV. Especially if the child was of Black.

              Oh, and on this: “people get completely shamed and cancelled now for calling the police ”
              Really? Have you ever seen anyone “cancelled” for that that did not legit *deserve* it? I sure haven’t.

              1. Richard Hershberger*

                Breaking a car window is surprisingly difficult. I know this from personal experience, from the time I got caught in an unexpected snow storm in northern Arizona, got out of the car to put chains on the tires, and locked myself out. I eventually concluded that breaking a window was least bad option. I didn’t want to break the windshield, for obvious reasons, so I took a rock to a rear side window. It would quite a lot of pounding to do the job. There are tools to do this more efficiently, but they aren’t the sort of thing ordinary people happen to have on their persons. And on a city street, there may not be any handy rocks available.

                1. Unaccountably*

                  Also, I think those tools are made to let you get out, not in, so you keep them in your car. So then you’re stuck staring through the window in frustration at your keys *and* your window-breaking tool.

              2. Observer*

                try to open a door or break a window – before calling police. YMMV. Especially if the child was of Black.

                Please don’t even try that. Unless the door is unlocked, it’s not as easy as the movies make it seem. And it’s also risky for the kid, since when these windows break they tend to shatter. Flying glass is not exactly the safest thing you can subject an infant to.

                1. Lilo*

                  Yes, please please leave this to the experts who have the tools and knowledge to not harm the child in the car.

              3. Anona*

                It’s a CRIME. And you better believe that if EMS or Fire gets a call of unattended infant in car, dispatch is sending a cop as well.

              4. Cat Lover*

                Yeah… this is TRAINWRECK advice. Call the fire department to open windows with proper tools.

                1. Rolly*

                  Oh I’m not saying I’d succeed (I’ve broken into one car successful though, and pretty fast; not through the windows).

                  Sure, FD. Not cops as a first step. Not police.

                2. Don P.*

                  Note that the fire department and the police department are both at 911, and the dispatcher will decide who comes, not you.

                4. pancakes*

                  Thank you Don, I don’t know why anyone with a current emergency would be looking for the local fire department’s number instead of calling 911! It’s the dispatcher who will decide who to send to an emergency, and even for them likely by protocol rather than discretion.

                5. Deborah*

                  Here in Phoenix if you call 911 you get the police AND the fire department AND an ambulance. Even for something really clear like an urgent medical transport from a doctor’s office to the hospital.

            1. Nephron*

              Police in the United States have tear gassed babies, at protests and in homes, and have shot them. I know of one case of a flash bang ending up in a baby crib when they did a no-knock warrant on a house based on an anonymous tip. Cops also throw people around when they are holding kids a lot.

              There are unfortunately a number of situations where things could escalate from a mother panicking either holding the kid or coming out when they tried to break into the vehicle to retrieve the kid.

            2. Coffee Nut*

              You’re advocating for the state to come rip a screaming 4 month old baby from her sobbing mothers arms for the crime of POVERTY. Sit with that image and that thought for awhile.

        2. EventPlannerGal*

          Yes. I read an article, I think on HuffPo, years ago on infant deaths in hot cars. There are parts of it that I have not been able to get out of my head since. It is one of the most profoundly disturbing, hideous manners of death that I can imagine, and the parents were all absolutely destroyed.

          I don’t know what the right answer is in this situation, but leaving an infant in a car for hours while you are working is not at all the same as them being in the next room. It’s not a ‘least bad option’, it’s not an option at all.

          1. RetailEscapee*

            I believe the Washington post story on this is why I started subscribing to the Washington post.

              1. LB*

                Absolutely was about to recommend this. It’s a soul-wrenching read but so urgent for people to know – both about the horrifying realities of how hot cars function for kids and pets, and the wrongly punitive consequences in some places for people when it’s a genuine mistake. (And the fact that car companies created a safety system to help prevent this, but didn’t make it standard because they couldn’t see a profit from it.)

                This article should be required reading before people weigh in on the issue. It’s stuck with me vividly.

                1. Flossie Bobbsey*

                  Same here. I read it when it was published and have never forgotten the details. I’m not up for rereading it now, but anyone who hasn’t read it really should read it before weighing to discourage the OP from intervening. Cora’s choice was horrifying, but (in my personal obligation) OP has a moral obligation to look out for the victim (the baby) if no other adult appears to be.

              2. EmmaPoet*

                I read it when it came out eight years ago. I can still remember certain passages. It made that much of a mark on my memory, after reading thousands and thousands of other articles and books since then.

            2. anne of mean gables*

              Yes, Gene Weingarten. That story will haunt me until I die. But, that story has also really informed my approach to parenting and managing risk.

              1. Lilo*

                They also left out some of the harder details. It is very very much not a good way to die.

                In the scene my sister was at, the parent kept begging the police to kill him. It was an accidental situation and that’s how horrific it was. And remember my sister regularly is at scenes of shootings and stabbings. This was the bad one.

                I’m sharing these details because I want people to understand what an incredibly dangerous and horrific situation this is and why, while you can have compassion for Cora, this absolutely is an emergency, call 911, report it, stop it at all costs thing. It’s absolutely deadly.

                1. Zweisatz*

                  If Cora is right there, there is no need to call the police. You talk to Cora, who has a car key and is like 20 meters away from the car to come get the child so you can figure something out while the child is safe.

                2. Just Another Techie*

                  I agree if you see a child unattended in a car and don’t know where the parent it, it is 100% a “call 911” emergency. However, this is after the fact. LW didn’t know the child was in the car until after the child had been safely retrieved. It is better to work with Mom to prevent this from happening again than to wait for another dangerous situation to present itself. (Now if LW had been one of the two colleagues who knew and did nothing but gossip, that’s a whole other kettle of fish)

                3. pancakes*

                  Is it an ongoing emergency right now? Whether the baby is or is not presently in the car needs to be a crucial question to answer in making a decision on that.

                4. Bunny Girl*

                  I saw a lot of awful things working in a veterinary ER, but yeah; the worst thing I ever saw was a dog who died after being left in a hot car. It will never leave me.

                  I hope this situation can be dealt with in a compassionate way.

                5. Rolly*

                  “I agree if you see a child unattended in a car and don’t know where the parent it, it is 100% a “call 911” emergency.”

                  What? So in cold weather, when traveling with my child, if I stop to get gas and go into the gas station, I’ve got to take him with me?

                  And what if the windows are open and it’s cool out? Is that still a 911 call? JFC I don’t want cops called on us like that. Thanks for making my life more scary.

                  Or is your advice to other people to at least start running around, such as going into the store, for the person to find me. That’s more reasonable, though if everyone did that I’d have strangers looking for me all the time.

                6. Lilo*

                  Yes, you have to take your kid in with you in all those situations. Yes you can (and should) get the police called on you for doing that.

                7. On Fire*

                  Wasn’t there an incident just recently that a man accidentally left his child in a car and then went home and killed himself when he discovered what he had done?

                8. Observer*

                  For all the people saying “Don’t call 911 after the fact.” You’re missing the point.

                  There are two points here:

                  1. Some people are saying to not call 911 EVEN at the time. And that just unacceptable unless there is SOMEONE with a key that can and will take the baby out of the car. Of course, if a parent or other caretaker is there, insist that they have to take the baby out of the car or you will call the police. If the person takes the baby out, well and good. Mission accomplished. But if there is no caretaker present or the caretaker refuses? CALL THE POLICE.

                  2. After the fact, you have to call CPS. The Mother just put the baby at very real risk, including the risk of a very difficult death. You can (and should!) have as much sympathy as you can muster for the mother, but this CANNOT be allowed to happen again! It’s all good and fine to say “talk to the mom” but that’s not going to have any teeth. And when you are talking about such a risk you need to have something that has enforcement power.

                9. Unaccountably*

                  @Rolly: Yes, if you have a small child who cannot get out of the car by themselves, you must take them into the gas station with you. If this is too much trouble for you, don’t drive with your small child in the car.

                10. pancakes*

                  On Fire, there are many terribly tragic stories on this topic. What exactly is it you want people to take away from that particularly tragic one today?

                  I have basically the same question for those of you alluding to similar incidents. There have apparently been 11 so far this summer. They are indeed all tragic, I can’t imagine the pain of the parents and others in the community, but gesturing at them does not reveal a map to how to respond to the letter. People are speaking as if they do, though.

                11. pancakes*

                  Observer,

                  1) Surely it’s best to respond directly to those people on that point, and

                  2) that isn’t in fact the sole option here. Everyone agrees this needs to never happen again. Your opinion that the only way to accomplish that is through the use of local authorities is just that, an opinion, and execution of it as advice, even if everyone agreed, would depend on many factors, including the rules and practices local authorities operate under. They don’t simply do whatever people request of them. A number of people here are talking about CPS as if it’s customer service for reports of bad parenting.

                12. Tricksie*

                  Lilo, I’m not sure if your sister lives in the same place I do, but this happened to my friend and his child. My friend was also begging the police to kill him. It was absolutely the most horrible tragedy I’ve had close experience with. Beyond words.

                13. Sad Desk Salad*

                  In response to “do I really have to take my kid inside with me?” I get where you’re coming from, but recently in a city near mine, a gentleman was delivering for DoorDash and had his infant with him–his childcare for the day had fallen through–and thought it would be fine to leave his car running and the infant inside while he ran the order up to the doorstep. In the few seconds that took, someone stole the car with the infant inside. When the thief realized what he’d done, he dropped the car off at a fire station (I believe) and ran off, parent and child were reunited, and there was no harm done. But think how differently that could have turned out! Parent was in eyeshot of the car, delivery took less than a minute, and in that short time, his child was inadvertently kidnapped.

                  It’s an extreme case, sure, but do you really want to risk it?

                14. Rolly*

                  “Yes, if you have a small child who cannot get out of the car by themselves, you must take them into the gas station with you. If this is too much trouble for you, don’t drive with your small child in the car.”

                  Oh bullshit. A kid in a locked car when it’s 40F out for a few minutes is not in danger. Heck, I’m more scared walking my kid through parking lots they way people drive.

                15. Flossie Bobbsey*

                  @ Rolly, there was an article a few years back by a woman whose life was nearly ruined because a stranger called the authorities after observing her leave her child in the car for a few minutes to drop off library books (or something equally quick). It was unrelated to whether the child was hot or cold in the car.

                  I read that article and the WaPo article linked above well before I was a parent, but I never forgot them. I can definitively say that I have never, ever have left my children in the car for any reason while I went into a shop or gas station or did some other quick errand. I may have to change my plan or my routine if bringing them inside proves to be inconvenient; the answer for me is never to leave them in the car while I dash inside somewhere.

                  Personally I would be more worried about the consequences to leaving them behind (both for their health and safety and my freedom) than I would be of a minor inconvenience of bringing them into a shop or deciding to do the errand a different time when they weren’t with me.

                16. GlitterIsEverything*

                  Rolly (and those replying to Rolly): spend a few minutes on the Free Range Parenting site. The statistics show that there is significantly more risk to a child walking through a parking lot than there is leaving a child in a car while running in to pay for gas.

                  Parenting, like life, is a series of calculated risks. With rare exception, we’re all doing the very best we can, and a little grace and support go a whole heck of a lot further than judgement and punishment.

              2. Jack Russell Terrier*

                I was thinking of the story when I read the Headline. He won a Pulitzer for it (he has two).

                It’s such an important PSA and so bravely and beautifully written.

                There are alarms that will warn you you’ve left your child in it’s car seat. We have the technology. Why risk it?

            3. EventPlannerGal*

              I just checked and that’s the one I’m thinking of. An absolutely haunting article.

          2. Admiral Thrawn Is Always Blue*

            Here in Tallahassee, FL, a baby just died a few days ago from being left in a car during her mother’s entire shift. At a hospice no less. She didn’t realize the baby was back there. I am very sympathetic to the mom’s financial plight but this simply can never be the answer.

            1. This-is-a-name-I-guess*

              That was a little different. She *forgot* she had the baby in the car. It’s an absolute tragedy, but it’s not intentional. That could happen to any new parent.

              1. Richard Hershberger*

                Forgetting the kid was there was my great fear. I tend to go on autopilot on routine tasks. The fear was that I would have the kid in the car for a non-routine reason in an otherwise routine situation. They both managed to survive into their teens, so far.

                1. Sasha*

                  I kept mine in the front seat for that reason (airbag off, obviously). No chance of forgetting him when he’s right next to me.

                3. General von Klinkerhoffen*

                  My car yells at me to check the back seat when I turn the engine off, if and only if the back doors were opened since the car was turned on. It’s a brilliant innovation – it prompts a reflex to check over your shoulder – but I do get a slight chill thinking about why it was added.

                4. Ann*

                  The article upthread talks a lot about what can happen when parents are on autopilot, especially if there’s a change in their routine. It’s horrifying. Like, don’t read it at work, because you will be traumatized. I’ve been catching myself doing this autopilot thing ever since I read it, and every morning after I drop off the kids, I try to recall what I said to them at dropoff. Just to be sure…

                5. KoiFeeder*

                  I did that on purpose to my dad once when he had a business trip (fifth grade was a bad time for me). He got all the way to the airport. Scared him to death because the only reason he caught me was because I popped my head out from the backseat and asked if I could come with him.

          3. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

            Maybe I missed it but did ANYONE in the know try to talk to Cora at the time? I’m side eyeing those coworkers because were I in their shoes, I’d talk to Cora right then and help her come up with a fix tor that day (e.g. empty conference room, storage room, nursing room, bathroom, office filing cabinet drawer – my crib when my mom was in grad school). I mean, I might just be her peer or not her boss, but this could be a “save a kid from dying” moment, so hierarchy be damned.

            Once immediate danger was settled, I’d ask her what happened. If it was a one off (e.g. 5 minutes before shift sitter got in car accident), we have a not great but doable solution for the rare issue. If it looks like a more permanent thing I’d suggest what I know since I work in a social services adjacent field so have a pretty good idea of the landscape and offer to help if she likes. Kid shows up in the car again after that, though, I’m going to 1) ask Cora WTF; and 2) ask around about how to approach the situation from said social services contacts

            1. Amy*

              Definitely. I would have been begging to bring that baby into the office. So much safer.

              1. Books and Cooks*

                Me, too. Begging her to bring the baby in, and promising to call anyone and everyone I knew who might be willing to take the occasional babysitting shift, especially for free or for a very low charge (i.e. “If you’ll bring me some McDonald’s at the end of your shift so I don’t have to worry about cooking, I’ll watch the baby,” that sort of thing). And urging her to speak to our manager/speaking to her myself (in a general way, not like dropping Cora in it) about potentially allowing the baby in the office regularly on a certain schedule, or something like that. (Obviously that depends on what type of office it is, and what type of manager she has.)

                Personally, I love babies/little ones. I used to watch my neighbor’s little ones all the time (still do occasionally; I’m their Tia), and would be absolutely delighted to help someone out in this situation. A few women I know have had babies in the last couple of years, and I’ve always made a point of telling them that if they ever get stuck on a sitter, please call me (and/or my teenage daughters). I think most people meeting me wouldn’t assume this about me, and I bet I’m not the only woman in the world who feels this way–and if nothing else, we have to stick together and help other women out in situations like these, imo.

                So please, OP, talk to Cora first, of course, but if she seems open to it, start asking around! You never know who might be willing to sit for a few hours, or who might have an office with a great daycare they can use on occasion, or might have a family member or friend who can help out. The important thing is for Cora to not feel alone or like she has no other options, and especially to make sure she never leaves that baby in the car again!

            2. Observer*

              I’m side eyeing those coworkers because were I in their shoes, I’d talk to Cora right then and help her come up with a fix tor that day

              100%

              And this is one of the reasons why I actually have a lot of compassion for Cora. This is a place with apparently scary attitudes. So it’s less surprising that she felt the pressure to do this.

              This is especially mind boggling because we’re talking about a 4 month old. They generally are not all that disruptive. (And if this was a baby who would have been disruptive, that means a baby who needed attention was left in a car for 4.5 without any attention!)

              OP, I don’t know how much political capital you have. But if you can move your office to a bit more understanding any compassion for parents that would be a good thing.

              PS for all the people who are going to say “Why should parents get a free ride” I have a LOT of answers. But I’ll just point out that being compassionate to parents is more compatible with being compassionate in general, than being ok with the risk to an infant is. Because to be ok with that requires either zero compassion or zero understanding of basic human needs.

              1. Iris Eyes*

                This is definite culture check at work moment. Why did she feel so unempowered to take off? Non-existent PTO? Getting hassled every time you try to take off a shift last minute? Census so low that there’s no room for even one person to be missing?

                Yes parents should have their childcare needs as together as they can but most are doing good to have one backup plan. Especially if there are issues with postpartum anxiety which can often manifest as an unwillingness to leave a child with others, so a drop in daycare isn’t on the table as an option. I mean there are just as many horror stories of kids being abused, injured, or dying in daycare facilities as there are in hot cars. (Yes, statistically the risk is different but humans aren’t great at statistical analysis, especially when anxiety is in the drivers seat with sleep deprivation as a copilot)

                The saying rightly is that “it takes a village to raise a child” and an employer is always a part of that village.

                1. Dona Florinda*

                  +1000.

                  Cora is obviously wrong, but a lot people failed them if her she thought only option was to leave her baby in the car.

            3. Just Me*

              I was wondering this, too. I feel like this is one of those rare instances where an employee would go to their manager and say, “I’m really concerned for my colleague Cora because her childcare fell through and she is doing her best to watch her baby and do her work. She’s doing her best to be an attentive employee and I don’t want her to get into trouble, but do you think we can find a solution for her and the baby right now?”

            4. Not So NewReader*

              Agreeing with you DGA.
              It’s one of those things where I would make an executive decision and apologize later.
              Get the kiddo inside the building asap.

              IF I had a jerk of a boss who complained, I would point out that newspaper headlines for a story about a baby dying in our parking lot would look verrry bad for the company and the boss themselves could end up in hot water. (This is how things go in some work environments.)

              But I have worked several places where a cohort could sneak in a baby and the boss would never know or find out much, much later.

            5. Elizabeth West*

              I was thinking this. Any job I get would likely not involve babysitting, but if a Cora in my office were really this desperate, I’d totally watch an infant for an hour if she had to take a meeting. The alternative is untenable.

              Surely someone would know of a resource for her. I really want an update on this letter.

            6. Parakeet*

              Yes, this seems like a good approach to me, focused on interventions that will actually help both the parent and the baby. And the baby in this case isn’t old enough to be mobile, so it’s not like there’s a risk of them crawling or walking into something hazardous in the office.

            7. Horrified*

              Yes yes yes to this. OP said something along the lines of, “I don’t know who to be more upset with, Cora, or my coworkers.” Be more upset with your coworkers! Cora is clearly not thinking straight. We don’t know why, but we can imagine: maybe she’s sleep-deprived, maybe she has postpartum depression or no family nearby or she’s exhausted or hormonal or has no PTO or all of the above. But the coworkers… ? What on earth!!

              An unattended infant is an emergency. Period. Always. The concept that she was ‘keeping an eye on the baby’ doesn’t even make sense. How? Babies under 1 year are by law in car seats rear facing. So if she parked her car engine-in first, she can’t see the baby. If she parks the car trunk in, I also don’t see how she could see the baby over the back seat. Even if you have a tiny mirror, there’s just NO WAY to see the baby through that tiny baby in the mirror reflection from 20 feet away through a rearview or windshield. It’s. Just. Not. Possible.

              If you showed up to work with your spouse having a stroke or heart attack and said, “Well, I’m just going to leave them in the car for my shift and then go to the ER,” what would coworkers do? If you someone’s ex showed up at your office with a restraining order, would you just let them walk right in? These are emergencies! Hopefully you would take some kind of action to assist the person(s) experiencing the EMERGENCY.

              As a mother who accidentally locked my keys in my car on a hot day, this whole letter gives me a panic attack. I had already set my bag/purse/phone in the front seat and had accidentally dropped my keys into the car seat as I set her seat onto the base. I shut the door and went to open mine, and in that split second, my daughter hit the button and locked the car. It was a hot day and an immediate nightmare.

              I had to leave my car unattended to run as fast as humanly possible to the nearest building, which thankfully was open and had a phone. I cried–“I’ve accidentally locked my baby in my car!” and they IMMEDIATELY called 911. The 911 attendant took the appropriate steps to call the fire department who came with tools and eventually helped break the window to get her out. But it was a harrowing 20 minutes while she screamed at the top of her lungs and got extremely overheated. I still shiver to think what I would have done were I not in a place where another person was nearby to call 911. Another 10 minutes could have killed her, literally.

              I completely changed my habits in terms of how I hold my keys and do everything in my power to never be in this situation again. Choosing it voluntarily… Allowing your coworker to choose it voluntarily… I just… I’m speechless. This letter reminds me of the worst boss of the year–that principal who refused to call 911 because it would ‘look bad to the parents’ or some nonsense like that.

              My advice to the OP is to get a new job because I wouldn’t want to work with people who hesitate to call 911 or who for the love of God hesitate to bring a newborn into the office until a better situation can be found!

              1. Books and Cooks*

                Thank goodness you were able to get someone to call, fast, and your daughter was okay!! This was one of my biggest nightmares when my girls were little. To this day, the second I step out of the car I put my keys in my pocket or loop the ring around my finger, and check 2x to make sure I have them before I close any door of the car (even after I’ve opened and closed several, like putting groceries in or something).

                I genuinely cannot imagine just going about my work like it’s NBD, knowing that my coworker’s baby was sitting in a car outside. And I’m one of those moms who felt fine about leaving the baby locked in the car at a shaded, visible pump to run in and pay for my gas [if there was a line I went back to the car to wait], or spending a few minutes sitting on the back porch if she was napping, or whatever.

                I’m surprised no one has mentioned (that I’ve seen yet, at least) that even with the AC on, even if the AC somehow kept the temperature in every bit of that car’s interior at 74 degrees or something, that poor baby might have been in direct sunlight for the entire time. How could multiple adults just ignore that??

              2. Observer*

                Allowing your coworker to choose it voluntarily… I just… I’m speechless.

                Yes. I really, really cannot wrap my head around it. I just… Can’t.

                This letter reminds me of the worst boss of the year–that principal who refused to call 911 because it would ‘look bad to the parents’ or some nonsense like that.

                I hadn’t thought of that one, but you are right.

          4. Etti*

            She should have taken the baby to the office with her. The OP says their manager is good. If a baby can supposedly be ok for 4 hours work would not be disrupted.

        3. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

          No I agree. Just wringing your hands and trying to come up with ways to help her out of fear that the baby will be taken away is misguided in my view. CPS absolutely needs to know. This was wildly irresponsible on the part of everyone who knew about it and didn’t do anything, and wildly irresponsible on Cara’s part. Of course I sympathize that she was in a tough position but the solution to that cannot be to put your child in a potentially fatal position.

          1. Perfectly Particular*

            I completely disagree here. If the mom was partying, gambling, etc. like so many of these stories we hear, then yes, CPS is the only option. But Cora was just trying to work, and destroying both her and her baby’s lives for a 1-time poor decision that luckily ended without consequences is excessive. The key is to make sure it never happens again, by helping her find resources. Emergency backup care, a college student with a flexible schedule, a grandma who loves babies…. whatever. No way would I trust CPS to act in the best interests of Mom and Baby.

            1. Sloanicota*

              Yes, from what I’ve read now, I would no longer call CPS on parents that cared and were trying to do a good job even if they seemed a bit inept – I would only call them on deliberately physically abusive parents (I’m not a mandated reporter and seemingly neither is OP). CPS seems to have basically criminalized poverty, and taking children from loving homes to places where they face very uncertain safety is only going to traumatize them. The families need support. It’s like calling the police on someone who’s mentally ill.

              1. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

                I don’t think leaving a young baby unattended in a car is “a bit inept”.

                1. Books and Cooks*

                  No, but she tried to do everything she could to mitigate the danger, and no parent is perfect. My older daughter once managed to almost choke on a dime while I was right there in the room, doing some tidying. When I was pregnant with #2, I had to call poison control because I was putting a load in the wash, and Older went into my room, found my berry-flavored Tums, and helped herself (FYI, Tums are NOT potentially poisonous; there is no LD50 for them, and she was totally fine). Younger once picked up a half-empty beer bottle from the night before and took a big swig of it before I took it from her. Things happen with babies and little ones. Yes, what happened in this case was beyond any of those, but the fact remains that we’re all just doing the best we can. Cora chose a bad solution in this case, but we don’t have any evidence that she does this regularly or anything, or is generally a neglectful parent.

                  I understand where you’re coming from, absolutely, and my first instinct was the same as yours–this is shockingly bad. But after that first reaction passed, I just need more “evidence” before I’d think CPS needs to be called. As others have said, offer solutions, and then if it happens again–if we now know that Cora, despite being informed of the dangers and having alternatives, is still doing this, then perhaps someone needs to intervene because it’s clear she’s not putting the child’s safety first and thus is potentially making other dangerous decisions. But offer that help first. No one should be judged on a single action taken in an emergency; let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.

                2. Observer*

                  @Books and Cooks, No, but she tried to do everything she could to mitigate the danger, and no parent is perfect.

                  This is waaaay beyond “not perfect”. And “everything she could” doesn’t come close to actually bringing the risk down to a reasonable level.

                  We talk a LOT around here about how “intent is not as important as impact”. Why is is that when we are talking about the LIFE of a child that somehow goes out the window?

                  Cora chose a bad solution in this case,

                  This was not just a “bad” solution. It was a life threatening one!

                3. EmRo*

                  @Books and Cooks The situations you shared regarding your children are completely different than Cora’s in that she made a deliberate decision to leave her baby in the car. That is very different than the situations you described that occurred when your attention was elsewhere momentarily. But Cora didn’t accidentally leave her infant in a car during summer, she chose to. Regardless of how desperate or how few choices she felt she had, that shows very impaired judgement on her part. It is entirely possible that lack of judgement is affecting other parenting choices as well. Or maybe it is a one time thing — we don’t know. But we do know this one choice and it is definitely a red flag. While CPS varies wildly from state to state and even area to area, that is the best resource to evaluate what is happening in the home and connect Cora to social services that can hopefully make her a stronger parent. In many places, they will not take children away unless there is a pattern of neglect/abuse and/or the child’s life is in danger. Many, many times children are not taken away and then we hear horrible stories later about what was actually happening in the home. Of course there are stories to the contrary. But I do believe this was a serious enough breach of judgement that it is bears investigation by a professional to evaluate the bigger picture beyond this one incident. And even if you never see evidence of neglect in that way again, it does not mean it is not happening. To put another way, what if you pull Cora aside and say that can not happen again, this was so dangerous, how can I help? And next time Cora leaves the baby at home so no one at work finds out? At some point the baby’s welfare has to come before the mother’s feelings and this incident for me—and I think a lot of others—tips the scales in that direction.

                4. jasmine*

                  The ideal situation is that Cora doesn’t leave the baby in the car again. Which is why talking to her is the best first step.

                  I understand where some of y’all are coming from but I feel there’s a lack of awareness on the extremely negative impacts of the foster care system on children, and the screw ups of the CPS. I know enough folks (not parents who were being investigated btw) who work closely with the CPS and there are definitely significant problems in that organization. I’m on mobile so I won’t get into it here.

                  I’m not saying that you should never call the CPS, there are absolutely situations that warrant it. But if you don’t believe you should be cautious in doing so, then you’re being naive.

              2. Observer*

                I would no longer call CPS on parents that cared and were trying to do a good job even if they seemed a bit inept – I would only call them on deliberately physically abusive parents

                Except that those are not the only two types of situations.

                What happened here is one of those “in between” situations. The mom here was NOT just “a bit inept”. She was risking the child’s life!

            2. yala*

              It’s so frustrating that CPS doesn’t include preventative aid like providing childcare and resources for underprivileged parents. It would cheaper and less traumatic for so many families in the long run.

              Part of my is baffled that she even thought this was a good idea, but all the (not really sufficient) precautions she took indicate that she was trying her best to make a bad thing work in a situation where she felt she had absolutely NO aid. She didn’t even feel that she could call and ask if she could bring the kid into the office.

              I’m glad OP didn’t call CPS, but appalled that the other coworkers knew it was happening and didn’t say anything.

              1. pancakes*

                Some areas do have that. I’ll link to some examples in mine. Maybe the phrasing on those pages will be helpful to people looking for something similar local to them.

            3. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

              A baby died at a restaurant down the street from my parents in exactly this kind of circumstance. It wasn’t even a hot day. The mother didn’t have child care and her job was threatened if she didn’t come to work.

              In this case, mom is not acting in the best interests of herself or the baby. CPS is not a malicious force trying to destroy lives, but in serious circumstances like this they should be alerted. It was a one time poor decision, but lots of things that have serious consequences are. That shouldn’t mean that nothing is done and the most appropriate people to handle it are the professionals.

              1. What even*

                “Not acting the in the best interests of herself or the baby”? I don’t think I agree here. You have a women between a rock and hard place, and you are criticizing her for preferring the rock. You know what is dangerous for a baby? Homelessness. I had a client the other day telling me that she lost a $22/hour job because her childcare fell through one day. Now her kids can’t eat, and she has moved back in with her unmedicated, bipolar Aunt rather than live out of her car with a 9yo and an 18mo.

                Put yourself in the woman’s shoes. Sure, with the baby in the car, something bad might happen. But maybe the situation with work was, if she doesn’t come in and work, something bad will happen. It isn’t unreasonable to understand how a mother could make the not-quite-conscious decision of choosing a MIGHT be bad situation of a WILL be bad situation.

                Honestly, OP should go to her boss and ask the question of, “What are we doing as a company that has put one of our employees/coworkers into this position?”

                1. Observer*

                  “Not acting the in the best interests of herself or the baby”? I don’t think I agree here.

                  If you mean that this was an understatement, I agree with you. If you mean that this was remotely ok, then, NO. I get that Mom was in a bad place. But putting a child’s life in danger CANNOT be considered in their “best interests”

                  Honestly, OP should go to her boss and ask the question of, “What are we doing as a company that has put one of our employees/coworkers into this position?”

                  I agree. Cora made a terrible choice, no excuses. But why did she think she needed to do that? How did her coworkers go along with it?! (I’m actually quite angry at them.)

                2. What even*

                  Replying to Observer…

                  Cora didn’t make a terrible choice. She had a terrible choice.

                4. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

                  Honestly this is insane. Leaving a 4 month old baby unattended in a car while you go to work is incredibly reckless. Your life will get a whole lot worse if you kill your child.

              2. Not So NewReader*

                Sadly, until companies get away from that old mindset of “want the job or NO?”, we will continue to see many instances like this one here and a variety of other problems. The concept of the disposable employee creates many issues.

          2. Just Another Techie*

            Did you know CPS *charges* parents child support for time the child is in foster care? Did you know CPS pays foster parents hundred of dollars a month and also provides free babysitting (“respite”) for foster parents, but does not offer any of those resources to the bio parents of children they take? Did you know the number one reason children are removed from homes is “neglect” which is nearly always due to lack of childcare because of poverty, and adding yet another financial burden on increases the length of time children are away from their parents?
            https://www.npr.org/2021/12/27/1049811327/states-send-kids-to-foster-care-and-their-parents-the-bill-often-one-too-big-to-

            I agree, Cora cannot leave the child in the car alone again. It’s entirely too risky. But this can and should be solved with mutual aid, not by calling in the cops

            1. Observer*

              Not all CPS does that. And the Feds have finally changed the regulations so that they don’t have to do that anymore. Most of the CPS agencies have been begging to be able to stop doing this where Federal funds are involved because it actually costs them more money to try to “recoup” expenses than it costs to serve these kids.

          3. Zweisatz*

            The foster system can very well be a “potential fatal situation”. Years of that.

            So why not talk to the parent who is available and likely wants the best for her kid, but just didn’t have all the information (and was probably also not thinking creatively as you’re likely to do when you’re stressed because you need to be at work and childcare fell through)?

            It seems quite counter-intuitive to punish her and a child for something that can be prevented going forward by helping her troubleshoot.

            1. lilsheba*

              she still should have known it was a bad idea to LEAVE the child alone in a car! That should be a given! IF she can’t figure that out then CPS needs to be involved.

              1. Wendy Darling*

                I would guess she did know it was a bad idea, but felt it was perhaps a better idea than losing her job and then losing her housing, healthcare, and ability to buy food for her child.

            2. EmRo*

              It is not a given that the baby will be taken away. While every state is different there is a process that must be followed before a parent loses custody. I have known if horrific cases where the children stayed with the parent and it ended in tragedy. We don’t actually know if this was a one time thing or an indication of a larger pattern.

          4. BL73*

            I absolutely would call CPS. This may not be a one-off situation and CPS is best equipped to investigate and educate.

          5. Etti*

            ‘This was wildly irresponsible on the part of everyone who knew about it’.

            This is an excellent point. I would have gone to the car, taken the baby out and looked after it. If the parent had a problem they can deal with CPS.

            1. Books and Cooks*

              Yes, I cannot get over the idea that several adults knew there was a baby in a car outside and did nothing. I might say now, after the fact, that I would want more information or to think about it and/or talk to Cora about it before deciding to call CPS, but there is no way on earth I wouldn’t have been out there grabbing that baby and bringing her/him inside, or calling 911 if Cora et al refused to do so, if I had learned about it while it was happening. If Cora is worried about losing her job and ability to put food on the table and that’s why she did what she did, fine; they can fire *me* for bringing the baby inside, instead.

              1. etti*

                What is even more sickening is that they loved the gossip the second she left, but did not feel any need to intervene!

      5. si*

        No, no, no, no, no, no. Babies and small children die horribly in hot cars. This cannot be done. Ever.

      6. WellRed*

        Pretty sure it’s legal to stick the kid in an office, but not the car. She’s lucky a customer didn’t report it.

        1. Susie*

          I agree. I’m surprised that no passerby saw and called in. I live in metro-Atlanta and the Cooper Harris hot car death still haunts me. Although that seemed to be intentional, it could happen by accident.

          I’m sure Cora was desperate, but this is not an acceptable solution.

        2. WillowSunstar*

          Yes, the office would have been a better option. The car could have gotten stolen with the baby inside and possibly the baby seriously injured or killed by the thief. Not to mention a customer, she’s lucky a coworker didn’t say anything to the boss. Although if people were gossiping all day about it, it’s quite possible a manager overheard anyway.

          1. Etti*

            Everyone knows about the Madeline McCann case. There are countless more on top of that. It is extremely rare for people to go into a house and kidnap a child. What is much more common is an opportunistic crime. Anyone could have seen the baby was locked in the car and kidnapped it.

        3. kittycontractor*

          Seriously. I’m absolutely shocked as passerby didn’t call 911. People can flame me all they want, if I saw a baby locked in a car, even if it’s running, and no one around, I’d 100% call the cops. Beyond something happening with the baby, a running car (so keys in it), is just waiting to be stolen. A halfway decent car thief could pop that lock and be out of there before the mom could get out the door even if she’s staring at the car and never blinking.

          1. pancakes*

            Not every parking area has a lot of foot traffic. There are blocks in NYC where cafes and retail stores tend not to last due to lack of foot traffic and this is a big, busy city.

            1. kittycontractor*

              Listen I live in the country so I get that. Obviously I’m only shocked that no one called is based on the passerby actually being their to see it.

            2. Etti*

              That makes it even worse as the opportunity for a crime without being spotted is much higher.

              1. pancakes*

                Makes what even worse? My point was that the existence of passers-by isn’t a guarantee. It isn’t additional information about the letter, which I don’t have. A number of people seem stunned that no one called the police at the time, and I think it’s quite possible no one passed by the car close enough to notice a baby in it, depending of course on where it was parked. I do not see a point in trying to quantify whether leaving the baby in the car was better or worse based on where the car was parked.

          2. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

            Me too. I’m utterly appalled at the number of people saying that CPS or emergency services shouldn’t be alerted.

            1. top five???*

              The people saying that are saying it from the perspective of people who know the parent is right there. She could be offered the resources of being able to bring the baby in, or be send home but still paid for the day. If what she needs is resources and perhaps also education, having the cops break her car open to get the baby out and getting CPS involved is unlikely to actually help. Few are saying that if you see a baby in a car and don’t have a better, faster way of getting the baby out of the car, you shouldn’t call 911.

              1. Books and Cooks*

                Yes, I’d absolutely call the police in that situation, no question. The difference here is that it’s not happening in the moment, and we know the mother’s situation and are trying to prevent it happening again.

              2. Not One of the Bronte Sisters*

                I would have helped Cora find child care alternatives, or offered to cover her shift, or even babysat for her myself.

              3. EmRo*

                But no one who works there is trained to evaluate if the mom needs more resources and education, nor to provide those to her, or if this is symptomatic of a bigger issue. I wouldn’t want to decide oh, she just made a bad choice based on this one decision, and then it turns out she was neglecting the baby in other ways too.

              4. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

                The parent was not “right there” if this scenario actually played out in the manner described.

            2. Jora Malli*

              A child I love dearly came into my life because of the foster system. He had been in some pretty terrible situations before being adopted and even though he’s in his 20s now, he’s still dealing with some pretty severe trauma. Living through the foster system caused him irreparable harm.

              Cora’s baby is alive, and OP has the opportunity to help them stay that way by working with their boss to come up with an alternate plan. If that alternate plan works out and Cora is able to support her baby and OP doesn’t see any more egregious harms taking place, then CPS can stay out of it. If OP can prevent Cora’s baby from the long term harm and trauma that can come from the foster system, they should.

              1. Seashell*

                What happened to him before the foster care system? It typically takes a lot to remove a child and sever parental rights.

              2. EmRo*

                And trauma also comes from parents who are abusive and neglectful. There is no guarantee this baby avoids that if CPS is not called. And no guarantee that CPS will revoke her custody.

            3. Nameless in Customer Service*

              Just because people disagree that invoking the authorities is always the perfect solution doesn’t mean people are cheering for the death of a baby.

      7. Johanna Cabal*

        It can be easy to get distracted even with the car in her line of sight. At a previous job, receptionists were often pulled in to help with tasks like prepping badges for a conference, basic copyediting, etc. It’s very easy to get absorbed into a task like that.

      8. EventPlannerGal*

        “a direct line of sight to her baby”

        Next time you’re walking through a car park or down the street, take a look at a car 10-15 feet away from you. Tell me whether you can see into the back of that car well enough to be able to tell what the breathing of a small infant sitting in that car looks like. Now imagine doing that through another reflective surface while also trying to check in clients and deal with ringing phones.

        I appreciate that what’s done is done and in this case the baby was okay, but I really don’t think it’s okay to minimise this as a “not ideal” situation, if only for the sake of anyone else reading these comments who might consider doing something like this as a last resort. It’s not “not ideal”, it is incredibly dangerous.

        1. Observer*

          Next time you’re walking through a car park or down the street, take a look at a car 10-15 feet away from you. Tell me whether you can see into the back of that car well enough to be able to tell what the breathing of a small infant sitting in that car looks like. Now imagine doing that through another reflective surface while also trying to check in clients and deal with ringing phones.

          Exactly. There is no way the mom could see the kid. Nor was she in a position to actually do something if a thief decided to take the car.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Dogs probably make out better because they can pop their heads up and get over to a window so people see the head and see it moving around. I went into a store. When I came out, I followed two women going the same way as me. My dog was in my car. I heard their remarks to each other- they were commenting about my dog being left unattended in the car.
          They both exclaimed in surprise when my husband peered over the seat to greet me. I had left the dog with my husband. My husband slouched down in the seat to rest for a minute. Passersby could not see my husband in the driver’s seat but they could see my dog moving around.

          No, you can’t see everything or everyone that is in a car while casually walking by the car.

      9. Observer*

        but if she had (for example) a baby monitor in the car and a direct line of sight to her baby, this doesn’t seem any different to me than leaving her kid in a closed office within earshot

        Based on what the OP writes, no baby monitor. And unless the windows were totally open, you really can’t see what’s going on in the car. And if the windows were totally open, that’s another whole set of risks.

        I understand why she might have seen it as the “least bad option”. But it’s still an option that did put the baby at risk.

        1. Etti*

          I have no idea why she didn’t take the baby into the office with her. That is the only option.

      10. LilPinkSock*

        It’s very, very different. No one is going to roll up and steal an office. Quiet rooms don’t have engine trouble or run out of gas.

      11. lilsheba*

        I completely disagree. There was absolutely NOTHING preventing someone from jumping in that car and driving away with the kid! It is MUCH safer to have the baby in the building with her, I don’t care what kind of business it is. I would call authorities because any mother should know better than that.

      12. TiredAmoeba*

        A young child sitting in a car seat for hours has its own hazards. Parents are often advised not to leave very young children sleeping in car seats because if their head falls forward it can restrict breathing and in those early months, they don’t have the neck muscle strength to move their heads so they can breathe. So the baby could literally choke to death.

    2. John Smith*

      It’s a bit of a jump to assume Cora’s status. Maybe she is desperate. It could be that she’s just feckless. Or sadistic/uncaring/poorly educated/insert any adjective of choice here. In any case, Alison’s advice is spot on, especially on the foster care system.

      1. John Smith*

        Just want to add after reading another post: if this was a dog instead of a baby, you can bet the police would have been called, the window broken and the dog rescued (at least in the UK).

        1. Mid*

          Except to get the dog back is usually one trip to animal control (and the window wouldn’t have been broken if the car was running and the dog wasn’t in distress.) If CPS removes a child, it’s usually multiple court dates and meetings and classes, that usually pose a significant financial and time burden. I worked with a family where the main income provider couldn’t get her child returned because she couldn’t take the time off of work and all her appointments were during work hours. She literally didn’t have paid time off, so every hour she didn’t work, she didn’t get paid. Her child was removed because a utility was temporarily cut off because she couldn’t pay the bill because she was attending meetings for her child’s school instead of working. This might just be my locality, and obviously it’s just one family situation. But don’t you ever compare a pet to a child, or the amount of work that goes into reunification of a child with their family and the immense burden that puts on the family.

            1. Lilo*

              CPS isn’t some blanket child removing agency. At least in the jurisdiction I worked in (I worked for two judges, one on a family law calendar), they made referrals and got parents connected with programs. There are definitely reasons to critique CPS, but they often get kids out of very dangerous situations.

            2. chewingle*

              They definitely do. Running water and electricity are the big ones in many jurisdictions.

            3. EPLawyer*

              In some cases they do. Depends on the family — as Alison said nonwhite you are more likely to have an adverse interaction with CPS.

              You absolutely do not want CPS involvement if it can be avoided. The amount of time spent trying to sort it out compared to the resource they will give you — plus if there is ANY issue later they can hold it against you — is really a last resort.

              1. Observer*

                as Alison said nonwhite you are more likely to have an adverse interaction with CPS.

                I’m very well aware of it – in NYC of all places, if you are an identifiable Orthodox Jew, CPS is going to react very differently than with a white mother. Nevertheless, when a parent put a child at direct immediate risk, you simply cannot just wave that away.

            4. Seeking second childhood*

              Not one bill– it was the last chance one that prevented the entire utility from being cut off. A house without water means no flush toilets*. In some places a house without electricity means no water from a well. Temperature control can also be an issue depending on the region.
              *As opposed to places with unsafe drinking water where you can at least flush the toilet even if you have to bring in bottled water.

            5. Just Another Techie*

              I am a foster parent. I have cared for children who were removed because utilities got cut off. It’s called “unfit for human habitation” if electricity/gas is off or water isn’t running, and thus counts as “neglect”. It absolutely happens.

          3. Peachtree*

            I don’t think that the person was comparing the pet to the child negatively … they were saying that in the UK, where I am, we have a low tolerance for leaving pets in cars. Which is comparable to this situation, where a child has been left in a car. Why is leaving the child more acceptable than the pet?

            1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

              It’s not that that leaving a child in a car is more acceptable than leaving a dog; it’s that, in the US at least, leaving a child in a car is so much more likely to be an act of desperation where there were no *good* options. If Cora’s dog care had fallen through, the correct choice is to leave the dog at home while she works, or if that’s not an option leave the dog at a friend’s house, or if things are really dire there are some dog boarding options for people experiencing short-term homelessness. None of that is an option for an infant. The safer choice was for Cora to not work if she had no childcare for the day, but that most likely means not getting paid and possibly also losing her job – which may mean losing her housing, her health insurance, etc.

              1. Sasha*

                Leaving a four month old baby at home unattended would have been safer than leaving them in a locked car. That is the point.

                1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

                  That’s not correct, though. Leaving a four month old baby home unattended for four+ hours is less safe than what’s described here. Maybe if you assume Cora didn’t feed/change/interact with the baby at all during her shift, but that’s not evident here. And depending on state, it may be legal to leave the kid in the car, but not at home (or vice versa, for other states).
                  They’re both potentially fatal bad choices. Arguably bringing the baby in the car is less total unsupervised time and has more room for risk reduction.

          4. Sloanicota*

            I was also just reading about the compensation for foster parents (well deserved, I’m not claiming it’s not) – if that money were … given to the parents who were struggling to pay for bills or childcare, the family would be able to stay together. But we as a society would rather pay a stranger to step in than “reward” someone who is poor.

            1. Just Another Techie*

              I get a little over a thousand dollars a month for each foster child. Plus free museum passes, free babysitting if my husband and I want a date night, and free ongoing parenting classes and seminars. Also occasional special events like a whale watching cruises, pizza and movie night, baseball games, etc. It’s both obscene how many resources are given to foster parents and devastating that the system as a whole is underfunded, because quarterly outings cost less than adequately staffing DCS with enough caseworkers and other support staff to help get children’s first families back on their feet and keep families together.

              1. Helen J*

                I did a sort of intern position with the county DFACS service the summer before I was senior to see if that was something I was interested in doing for a career. Some of the stuff they did made me think they whole system needs to scrapped and redone with people who have gone through this.

                For example, a woman had been laid off from her job and her husband was recovering from a horrific car wreck. She asked for temporary help for her family until she could get another job because unemployment was not enough (she had 3 kids). At that time (1994), she was asked property she owned. A car and a house (house was mortgage payments). They told her that she would need to sell her car and use the profits from that and try to sell the house and use any proceeds from that before they could help her. They gave her a list of food pantries and charity organizations. It was ludicrous. If she had been able to get SNAP benefits, Medicaid for her kids and maybe some type of check to pay for non food items, she could have made it through until she got another job. I sometimes still wonder about how it turned out for her.

                2. Observer*

                  That’s really unhelpful. Yes, that was the system then, but it HAS changed.

                  I’m not saying that the current system is good – it’s NOT. But now, the rules are different. They do NOT want people to sell their homes as it means that they then have to find housing for people. And the law was finally changed – they don’t count your house when looking at assets for most programs today.

              2. Sloanicota*

                This really shows how we divide folks into “good people” who deserve free things – generous foster parents! – and “bad people” who we treat with suspicion and disdain – struggling parents who have failed to keep the utilities on. Particularly, I assume, when the latter is a member of a minority group.

                1. bryeny*

                  Actually I think the benefits and perks for foster parents are meant (and sold to budgetary authorities, including legislatures) as incentives. Foster parenting is hard and some agencies have trouble recruiting enough of them. The respite care etc. make recruiting and retention a little easier.

                  The decision wasn’t “should we give this money to struggling families, to foster parents, or divide it among them?” After decades of trying to get better resources for struggling families AND foster parents, the question was “how do we make foster parenting easier without spending a ton of money?”

                  The result makes us look very bad as a society, I agree.

              3. yala*

                wtf.

                how in the world are those resources available but NOT for the biological families of kids?

                Obscene really is the word for it.

              4. This-is-a-name-I-guess*

                In our state, foster parents get all these benefits, but foster-to-adopt parents didn’t until recently. Foster-to-adopt parents of older kids do get some payments now, but not as much as foster parents. It’s kind of wild. All the kids in foster-to-adopt have either lost their parents or their parents are in prison or their parents lost parental rights (after considerable opportunities). They live in permanent foster homes waiting to be adopted. It’s really messed up that we pay people to foster other people’s kids while they are going through a hard time, but then we don’t pay parents who want to give these kids stability when their parents cannot care for them.

            2. Beka Cooper*

              I know, it’s so weird. I have thought this about child care assistance…so if my income was low enough to qualify for child care assistance from my county, they’ll give me money to pay for someone else to care for my child so I can go work my crappy low-wage job. Included in this, they are paying for all of the administrative employees who have to process child care assistance applications, determine who’s eligible, work with child care providers to get them taking assistance, etc. Likely if I’m qualifying for assistance I’m probably also getting food stamps. It’s such a tangled up mess, when they literally could just give money to poor and/or single parents to take care of their own children. But yep, can’t reward someone who is poor for “being lazy” and “having too many children to game the welfare system.”

              1. This-is-a-name-I-guess*

                Childcare Assistance funds usually come from federal dollars, which come with ridiculous strings. Federal welfare funds have tons of horrible red tape and stipulations about worthiness. Thanks Clinton! Thanks conservative a*sholes from terrible states!

              2. Books and Cooks*

                You are completely right about the ridiculousness of giving you money to pay a stranger to watch your child do you can go work a crappy low-wage job, instead of giving you that money to stay home and raise your child yourself. I find that infuriating, and always have.

                But the issue isn’t really “can’t reward someone who is poor for ‘being lazy,'” at least not in the main or even in large part. It’s about equality of the sexes and eliminating traditional roles. Look at the current debate over childcare wrt maternity leave etc. The big thing today’s feminists and “pro-woman” politicians call for is to make it so women do NOT take care of their own children; the demand is always to provide free childcare, so mothers can go back to work more easily. The only people suggesting that perhaps a better solution would be to offer more/better tax breaks and/or policies so that women can more easily take care of their children *without* having to jump back into the workplace are those “conservative a**holes.” President Obama outright stated that we need free daycare/childcare because without it women might stay home with their kids, and “we don’t want them to do that,” which echoes comments made by women like Simone de Beauvoir (iirc), who said the goal was to “take away” the option for women to stay home with their children, because “if the choice exists, too many of them will make that choice.”

                There certainly are people out there, in government and in the private sector, who imply (or outright say) that women are “lazy” for wanting to stay home with their children, and that they shouldn’t be “rewarded” for doing so, either with actual funds being provided or with, say, tax breaks for families with a nonworking spouse. As a stay-home/work-from-home mom & writer, I have been on the receiving end of a number of those types of comments and attitudes. But those comments and attitudes aren’t necessarily coming from the people one might expect, and it isn’t necessarily about “punishing” poor mothers. It’s about creating government jobs, about eliminating traditional gender roles, about increasing taxes and tax revenue, and generally remaking society. As you pointed out, the current system creates a whole lot of government positions, which can be used to justify tax hikes, which will result in more people having to enter/re-enter the workforce to pay those taxes and thus more need for those childcare and childcare-administrating positions, and so on. (Just like the current calls for “student loan forgiveness” do nothing to address the actual issue–the ridiculously inflated costs of a college education and the ridiculous demands for college diplomas for jobs that do not really require them in any way–but instead allow for the creation of government jobs to process those forgiveness applications and distribute the funds, jobs which will likely “require” diplomas and funds which will come, again, from increased taxes, a large chunk of which will be paid by people whose student loans were *not* forgiven or who never had them/went to college to begin with. I digress.)

                Personally I find it all to be somewhere between disturbing and infuriating, but that’s just me.

          5. Artemesia*

            And this is the country that wants to force women to have babies they can’t afford and right now seems to be moving to attack birth control. We have virtually no safety net for women in this situation. In France there is an inexpensive day care in every neighborhood; in the US if you don’t have grandma and a low paying job what are you supposed to do?

            1. Books and Cooks*

              The House just passed a law to “protect birth control access,” but whether it will pass the Senate and become law is questionable, due to the writing of the actual law. The issue is not birth control itself; the issue is whether things like Plan B are contraceptives or abortifacients, and some people have an issue with the latter. Afaik no one is trying to actually outlaw contraceptives; a few years ago there was a bill in the House that would have made contraceptive pills available OTC without a prescription, but that was shot down by the opposing party.

              The point is, until our representatives decide to take this seriously and stop trying to play some performative game with women’s rights (like writing bills they claim will simply “codify Roe v. Wade into law” but which actually make abortion legal through the ninth month of pregnancy nationwide with no restrictions, overruling any state laws voters chose to put into place–in other words, a bill which they know will not pass but which allow them to point fingers and play games, because they apparently feel that’s more important than actually accomplishing something), nothing will happen–which is why it’s important to be aware of what actually is and is not happening, and why, so we can focus our efforts accordingly.

              (Sorry, I don’t mean to lecture you.)

              1. EmRo*

                Justice Clarence Thomas literally stated in his solo assent in overturning Roe that SCOTUS should revisit (and presumedly overturn) Griswold—the Supreme Court case that guarantees the right to contraception. While right now debate is centering on abortifacients as you stated, many, many people are concerned about the future of contraception access for this reason.

                1. Books and Cooks*

                  The point is that the Court cannot create laws out of thin air. Our representatives *can.* That’s their job. They should be doing it, and we should be making them do it, instead of letting them get away with wasting taxpayers’ time and money with finger-pointing publicity stunt bills they know don’t have a chance at passing. Our “representatives” had fifty years to create a federal law or Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing at least some form of abortion rights, but they didn’t bother to do so. Instead they chose to rely on a Court ruling that a number of legal scholars on both sides of the issue felt had a very unstable basis and warned for years could be overturned; they paid lip service to women and women’s rights in order to get elected but, once they reached the Capitol, decided they’d rather focus on voting themselves raises, seducing interns, and making sure there was enough pork to go around. I’m just a lot more concerned about what *they* are and are not doing, or are and are not going to do, than I am with one Justice making a comment that the rest of the Justices specifically stated they disagreed with, did not intend to follow, and were not referencing in their ruling. And it makes me angry that so many reps are happy to beat a drum about that one comment in order to fill their donation coffers and win votes, rather than making that comment even more irrelevant than it already is by actually taking some action, that’s all.

              2. pancakes*

                I think it’s a mistake to think that what you’re seeing from representatives is failure to take this seriously. What you’re seeing is their own politics in action. For the most part it isn’t that they haven’t seriously considered the consequences of their own politics; it’s that theirs aren’t necessarily actually closely aligned with yours, or with the politics of a majority of their constituents. For an example, please have a look at recent reporting on the prospective appointment of former Kentucky state solicitor general Chad Meredith to the federal judiciary.

              3. Starbuck*

                ” Afaik no one is trying to actually outlaw contraceptives;”

                Maybe not de jure (yet) but in practice absolutely, they’re trying as hard as they can. Hence all the loopholes for employers who “morally object” to paying for birth control via health insurance.

          6. Migraine Month*

            In the US, the number one reason a child is taken away from their parent(s) by CPS is poverty-related unsafe home or poverty-related neglect. Then they *charge the impoverished parent* to have the child stay elsewhere.

            Imagine having to pay for the privilege of having your child taken away.

            1. Sloanicota*

              While they find money to pay *someone else,* a stranger, to care for them! That’s the part that slays me.

          7. Sandgroper*

            Another vote for ‘don’t ever compare a pet to a child’.

            Pets generally have a much shorter lifespan (except turtles!), become day to day independent in toiletting, self regulation and management far faster than humans (within a couple of months they can be left at home, weeks even, days for some!), and while we love them deeply and have life long joyful memories after they pass, they cannot, will not, must not ever replace human children in our lives. You’d never parade a 10yr old kid on a lead down the street (hopefully!) and you’d never feed them the same meal every day for years on end either. We treat animals (that we love) and children differently because they are not the same.

            The protection of children from abuse, neglect (wilful or accidental) etc is wildly different to the protection of animals. While animals should have more protections, often the protections of children do not go far enough (as evidenced by the 6yr old who died in SA this week past, with siblings in dire straits too).

        2. chewingle*

          I’m not sure the comparison here is the same, since dogs are self-sufficient enough to be left home alone, unlike a 4-month-old, so there is no circumstance where she could reasonably find it necessary to take her dog to work. We don’t know Cora’s circumstances or what made her feel desperate enough to throw out all good judgment, which is what Alison and Artemesia is getting at when they suggest OP talk to Cora and find out more about her situation and help come up with a better emergency solution. (And none of it would apply to a dog, so immediately calling someone wouldn’t be in debate here.)

          It IS surprising that no passersby called anyone, though. Cora got very lucky here.

      2. TiredAmoeba*

        Contrary to popular belief, removing a child from a home is a last resort. Social workers will often try to help the parent find services to help them with whatever the issue is, with the over arching goal being the well-being and safety of the child. Maybe helping Cora find reliable, affordable childcare is how they would help here, not just default to taking the baby away.

    3. Bilateralrope*

      Another possibility is someone notices that the car is running, the keys are in the ignition and the doors are unlocked. So they decide to steal the car.

      They don’t notice the baby until later.

      1. Caitlin*

        This happened in my city the other month – the mother had popped into a shop for barely 2 minutes, and an opportunistic thief had stolen the car without noticing their was a baby in it. It was everywhere on the news, and luckily the baby was found safe (if frightened) a few hours later, and the thief was caught too.

        1. Turtlewings*

          In my best friend’s state, there was a very similar incident. The child was a little boy, roughly four years old iirc. That one ended devastatingly, as the car thieves panicked and killed the little boy.

    4. Teacher*

      I think it’s important to focus on advice for the LW instead of litigating the choices Cora should or should not have made. I really hope for at least this one question that the commenters really don’t go down that path into a spiral. Saying that Cora is being neglectful and to immediately call CFS is not helpful advice and I’m glad Alison mentioned that in this particular case it would be more harm than good.

      I agree with you Artmensia that LW should talk to Cora. I’m a preschool teacher and trust me when I say there is no such thing as emergency childcare services and right now families are making the best choices they can, most times regardless of socio economic backgrounds. Tough situations are the real “new normal.”

        1. Teacher*

          Thank you! I don’t normally comment but after seeing some of the comments below and knowing firsthand what the reality is I had to.

      2. Allonge*

        Thank you – it helps precisely nobody to make a list of all the scenarios this could have gone very wrong here. OP is obviously aware! Judging Cora here helps nobody.

        In practical terms, OP, I agree with Alison that talking to Cora would be the first step. Maybe your manager could clarify if there is a back office or some place in the building that could be used for emergencies instead of a car?

      3. Artemesia*

        Yes. I am sure you are right. That was another day. There used to be drop in services but even gyms don’t have them anymore. You can’t leave a kid in a car; it would be better if the office allowed babies in the office in extreme situations . It is just so hard. And there are so few resources.

      4. Mary*

        I have a lot of sympathy for Cora and if the LW would like to help perhaps advocate in her workplace that staff have sufficient leave that they can take 4 hours paid leave without notice if their child care falls through.

        I also wonder if the culture of the company is such that Cora could not bring her baby into work with her without reprisal and if this is them company culture what can the lw do to change this culture even within the reception team and the manager?

        1. Thegreatprevaricator*

          Yes this. My company (admittedly UK, public sector adjacent, largeish employer) has family/dependents leave on top of annual and sick leave. We also have flexible hybrid working, which doesn’t sound like it would work for this role but sets a workplace culture of trusting employees to handle this kind of issue and giving the agency to respond if something like this occurs. Forget that at 4 months Cora would still be on full paid parental leave if she so wished. Cora is a symptom not the problem, and I’d start by talking to her but also consider if you’re able to escalate and advocate so that this doesn’t happen again.

          1. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and out fell out*

            On the rare occasion my day care has fallen through, I have been privileged to be able to work remotely (even in The Before Times) or take the day off. I even had one employer where it was explicitly in the employee handbook that you could take sick time (vs. vacation) if your childcare fell through, up to 5 days per year. So this is absolutely a problem the employer could help solve if they wanted to (and become aware of it) but don’t want to allow babies (and older kids) in the office.

            2. Just Another Zebra*

              One of the greatest perks of my company is that we can bring kids of “self-occupying age” to the office on emergency basis. If our kid is sick (or out waiting on a COVID test) we can work remote, which was never an option before. It has been lifesaving for the few of us who have kids. So yes, if it’s a viable option for employers I think some accommodations are worth it.

        2. Michelle Smith*

          I don’t think changing the culture makes sense. How are you going to be a receptionist checking in clients and getting their information over the cries and screams of your baby? It just doesn’t make sense. I get allowing moms with offices to bring their babies in, but at the front desk it just doesn’t seem logistically smart.

          1. londonedit*

            I think the point is that if the company culture is such that Cora would rather leave her baby unattended in a car for several hours rather than admitting to her boss that she’s had a childcare emergency and needs to take a sick day or whatever, that’s something that absolutely needs to be changed.

          2. Broadway Duchess*

            Depends on the baby. For some infants, during a four hour shift with maybe a 15 minute break? This would have been totally doable with my son. He was a very chill baby who only cried when his diaper needed to be changed. I could’ve left him with a baby monitor in another room with periodic checks for a few hours. My daughter… not so much.

          3. Just Me*

            I would also add that it depends on the business. I agree that in many office settings it doesn’t make sense (and I personally would avoid it if I could) but I have also been to more casual offices/workplaces where this has happened (vet’s offices, hair salons, etc.) I once worked in an office where the employer would be 100% okay with their client-facing staff doing this. I……found it to be odd and did not take my employer up on the offer when she gave me the option, but I do think that OP could do some of their own digging to see what the employer may be willing to be flexible on and pass that along to Cora.

          4. Observer*

            I don’t think changing the culture makes sense. How are you going to be a receptionist checking in clients and getting their information over the cries and screams of your baby?

            You’re making a lot of assumptions – a lot of 4 month old babies are not “crying and screaming”.

            I can think of a lot of potential solutions here, if someone who was there had taken some time to think this through. Not ideal, perhaps, but still viable! And a WHOLE lot more safe than leaving the kid in the car.

        3. Observer*

          I also wonder if the culture of the company is such that Cora could not bring her baby into work with her without reprisal and if this is them company culture what can the lw do to change this culture even within the reception team and the manager?

          That’s a really, really good question. Because the others KNEW about this.

          OP, I think it’s worth re-visiting that conversation with your manager. Because whatever you decide about calling CPS, you know that there is something very wrong with your office culture. If there is anything you can do to change that, it would be a benefit to everyone, not just Cora.

          1. Books and Cooks*

            Yes. I cannot imagine knowing that one of my co-workers had left her baby in her car–even if there was somehow no danger from that–and not trying myself to figure out a way to bring the baby inside, or find someone trustworthy to take the baby for the mother’s shift, or take up a collection to pay for a sitter, or…just something. How do you just shrug and say, “Well, that’s her problem,” when a baby is in potential danger, or how do you work at a place that is so rigid that this situation happens because everyone is terrified to try to find a better solution, and not feel that something is very wrong there and needs to change?

          2. maggie moo*

            Exactly! I would have told my coworker to strap that baby on and come on in. The boss wasn’t there, clearly, there wasn’t much foot traffic either since no passerby called for help, and patients or clients would have walked right by that front window as well. Push come to shove I’ll log off and watch the baby for Cora’s shift. No way a healthy work environment with decent people knowingly lets this happen.

      5. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

        Tough situations are the new normal, sure – but Cora is demonstrably not making the best choices she can. That is what OP needs to focus the conversation on; “this was a bad decision because of how risky it was. You got lucky, and here are better options.”

        1. Werrr*

          I think the problem here is we all agree it was a terrible choice, but there aren’t a lot of options. The alternative is missing work. Which I would do, but also, I can afford. What could Cora do? And how could OP help them? That’s the issue here.

          1. Loulou*

            There actually was someone up thread who said they didn’t see why this was worse than leaving the kid in an office!! So I don’t think everyone is quite on the same page about this.

              1. Just Another Zebra*

                The office also cannot be stolen from the parking lot. The office can’t be involved in an accident. The office doesn’t force baby to stay buckled into an unsafe position for 4 hours, with no food or diaper changes.

                1. quill*

                  I know this is a very serious topic but also I kind of want to see a scenario where a whole office was stolen from a parking lot.

          2. Cthulhu's Librarian*

            Tried bringing the child in and seeing if anyone cared? Chances are good that at a large company with a busy reception area, it would be disruptive to the child, and maybe she’d get sent home, but it would still have been a better idea.

            Tried to trade shifts with a coworker. OP1 might be in a good position to say “hey, if this comes up again, I’ll trade with you”.

            We don’t know enough about the specific location and Cora’s situation for me to offer better suggestions than those – I recognize that. But the answer can not be “leave the baby in the car” anymore than the answer to “how should I get home after going to the bar?” can be “Drive Drunk” or the answer to “How do I meet bills?” be “embezzle from my employer”.

            1. Kelly L.*

              Yeah, I really don’t get why no one in this situation said “Hey, why don’t you bring the kid inside” and figured it out from there.

              1. Unaccountably*

                This is exactly what should have happened. Whether you ask the mother to or call the police/CPS/whoever, the immediate goal has to be to get the child out of the car and into the office. *Then* you worry about what else you’re going to do once the baby’s safe.

                OP, what kind of time off do you get? Does Cora understand your company’s time-off and benefits policy? Ask and be sure; if she doesn’t, help her understand them. If she does and she’s just afraid of being fired, is that fear reasonable? If so, raise it with an executive, without naming names if possible – that’s an issue for your company to deal with before someone’s kid dies in their car and the negative publicity has them selling their company for $15 on Craigslist. If it’s not, then talk about community services.

              2. Nameless in Customer Service*

                I have to agree. I would have volunteered to help in a hot second — I have held babies for coworkers for up to a half hour. That’s not four hours, but I’d far rather answer a phone with a baby on my hip than have the baby in a car. I’ve done it in my personal life, I could manage it at work in an emergency.

      6. Cranky lady*

        “I’m a preschool teacher and trust me when I say there is no such thing as emergency childcare services and right now families are making the best choices they can, most times regardless of socio economic backgrounds.”

        An acquaintance recently shared that she is terrified of losing her well-paying, director level job because her child keeps being sent home for COVID exposures. Even though she works from home, she can’t work and watch the child at the same time because of his special needs.

        If the OP has any pull, please advocate for emergency childcare policies or benefits. That could be extra time off, on-site childcare, a million options so that no one feels like they have to make this choice.

    5. Cambridge Comma*

      I would worry that talking to her would lead to her keeping the baby in the car in a way that the coworkers won’t detect, so further away, with fewer checks. My advice to the LW is that you probably don’t feel qualified to take the decision yourself — I certainly wouldn’t — so perhaps there are advice lines you can call anonymously? Even if the coworker is in a difficult position, the judgement she has made here has crossed a line, even if nothing happened.

    6. independent agency fed*

      Depending on what state you live in, as an adult, you may also be a mandatory reporter by law, end stop. In some states, you can be charged with failure to report if it comes out later that you failed to do so.

        1. Paris Geller*

          Texas, for one. Not sure about others, but I know about that one because I live in Texas.

      3. Observer*

        Depending on what state you live in, as an adult, you may also be a mandatory reporter by law, end stop. In some states, you can be charged with failure to report if it comes out later that you failed to do so.

        I’m pretty sure that you are incorrect here. The OP is not a childcare provider, nor do they work for one.

        If there actually ARE states that actually mandate any adult to report any child endangerment they see, please state which ones they are rather than making scary generalizations. Especially since you are almost certainly wrong.

        1. LilPinkSock*

          Tennessee is one. According to that state’s DCS, “any person with reasonable cause to believe a child is being abused or neglected must, under the law, immediately report to the Tennessee Department of Children’s Services or to local law enforcement”.

        2. Wren Song*

          I know that Indiana, Wyoming, New Jersey, Texas, Idaho, and Utah all have black letter laws that require all adults to report reasonable suspicion of child abuse neglect, or abandonment. Other states like Oregon have codified very extensive lists of professions that go far beyond just child care providers. Many other state legislatures have been debating similar laws, so it is absolutely possible that there are others I am currently unaware of. Any many citizens of those states are absolutely unaware of those laws in their states.

        3. Just Another Zebra*

          According to childwelfare.gov, the following 18 states any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report:

          Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Indiana, New Jersey, and Wyoming.

    7. JSPA*

      Leaving the car running means the baby is breathing those fumes, too, unless it was a spectacularly windy day.

      2. NewJobGuy*

        Doubtful, but it is cruel to a four-month-old to have no human contact for four hours.

        1. pancakes*

          Views on that are going to vary by culture to some extent, and I don’t think that should be the emphasis over safety. In some cultures, for example in Scandinavian countries, it is considered healthy to basically air out a baby, leaving the stroller outside a restaurant or cafe or whatnot, even in the winter. Yes, women have been prosecuted for that in places where it’s not a tradition. I think that’s best avoided for everyone involved, when possible. Start with the assumption, unless there is a strong reason not to, that this woman does not want to be cruel to her baby.

          1. NewJobGuy*

            Outside on a busy street – the baby knows there are people around. Inside a car alone, the baby knows they’re alone. It’s absolutely cruel to the child and I won’t back down from that. I’m not saying the mother wants to be cruel to the child, but the situation is cruel.

            1. pancakes*

              I have never seen regulations pinned on the baby knowledge science you seem to be relying on, and I am not particularly interested in discussing the boundaries of baby knowledge today. To be clear I’m not asking you to back down at all! Your views aren’t threatened by me seemingly not sharing them, or not wanting to discuss them.

        2. Observer*

          I’m not a fan, but I don’t think that this is a fair assessment. Whatever you may think, it doesn’t endanger the child’s life. Calling CPS for anything less is the real cruelty- CPS messes to often that I would never take that risk.

      3. pancakes*

        An EPA assessment of the baby’s air quality shouldn’t be the main concern here. That is possibly a concern, but it’s not likely a primary one for someone struggling to find any child care at all, to take air quality into account to that degree. If the car has a leak in the cooling system or something else going on, that’s a separate issue in itself, and possibly dangerous for everyone around, not just the baby.

    8. Aster*

      Before talking to Cora, is it possible check with your manager about emergency options like allowing her to bring her baby with her into the office??

      1. Pdweasel*

        That was my thought, too. As a forensic pathologist, I can say firsthand that leaving a kid unattended in a potentially hot car—especially an infant who can’t advocate for themself or get themself out of a dangerous situation in the way that, say, an 8-year-old could—is a tragedy waiting to happen. It’s an awful way to die and an all-around Very Bad Idea. If the AC cuts out, the car runs out of gas, the car gets stolen…big yikes.

        The simplest and safest in-the-moment solution would appear to be allowing Cora to bring the baby into the office. If I were her manager or coworker, I would tell her that—please, for the love of all things good & holy, if you’re in this situation again just bring the bub inside with you & we’ll figure something out.

    9. Lily*

      Maybe advocate at work for some kind of emergency child care option in situations like this, e.g. like an on-site childcare or an arrangement with the child care next door or whatever. Even a blanket “bring them in and we’ll find a solution” would be better than nothing.

      1. Snow Globe*

        I was thinking this. I know it’s always said around here that a baby doesn’t belong in the office all day (and I agree), but between that alternative and leaving the baby in the car, obviously in the office is better! Bring the child inside, then figure out what to do.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          I was gonna say, it sounds like she didn’t even ASK anyone about bringing the baby into the office in an emergency situation. For all we know, her manager would have had no issue with it.

          1. pancakes*

            Yes, same. I am not a fan of the “call the cops now that this is in the past and talk it all over later” approach.

        2. Observer*

          I was thinking this. I know it’s always said around here that a baby doesn’t belong in the office all day (and I agree), but between that alternative and leaving the baby in the car, obviously in the office is better! Bring the child inside, then figure out what to do.

          Perfectly said!

      2. WellRed*

        Sure but you’re advocating for something very unlikely. The child care next door ( even if it exists it’s probably full and barely staffed to be legal). In house child care? I doubt that’ll happen.

        1. Nikkole*

          a receptionist wouldn’t have the kind of pull. They would probably rather get rid of the receptionist and the mother before doing something like that.

        2. Lily*

          It’s something that some big workplaces like hospitals (mostly places where people work in shifts) have. Maybe the OPs workplace isn’t one of them. Still, “we have 5 emergency coupons for the nearby childcare” isn’t wildly out there for a benefit. The receptionist doesn’t need to be the one suggesting it.

    10. pancakes*

      “Maybe talk with her and let her know it cannot happen again and why it is so dangerous.” Yes. If the people in her day-to-day life — and specifically, people who know enough about her to know that she “doesn’t have any family around to help and the child’s father is absentee” — are unable or unwilling to talk to her about basic baby safety, who should? Yes, there are times when a dangerous situation calls for the intervention of authorities, but this particular dangerous situation isn’t ongoing, the baby is not apparently still in that car. Going to child services without talking to her first seems like skipping an important opportunity to talk to her.

      1. quill*

        Yeah. Nobody has a baby and immediately knows how to keep the baby safe – even parents that have a lot of time and resources can easily miss things. Cora needs to know why this was such a risk for the baby.

    11. SMH*

      I’m just going to throw this out there: depending on the state, the LW may be a mandated reporter, in which case she is required by law to make a report. For example, in my state, EVEROYONE is a mandated reporter, but certain professions (Doctors, teachers, etc)can lose their license or face charges for not making a report.

      1. Observer*

        The OP is not a mandated reporter – no one in those fields is left in any doubt about it.

        As for the rest? The OP didn’t see it, so it would be hard for anyone to make a case that they have a LEGAL obligation. Also, from the legal POV, it would be very hard to make the case that they should know that not only are they required to report, but that they are required to report even if they have reason to believe that it won’t happen again.

        I happen to think that the OP should call CPS, but please don’t scare people into making decisions like this. The risk to the OP here is minimal and they should make the decision based on what they conclude is most likely to be the safest for the kid not a theoretical possibility.

        Those laws are not intended for situations like thins, but for situations where people had knowledge of ongoing abuse and did nothing.

        PS, Even mandated reporters often get away with not reporting. What makes you think that anyone is going to take the resources to figure out if the OP might have known enough to report?

      2. Just Another Zebra*

        I also live in a mandatory report state. There are 18 states that classify anyone who suspects abuse or neglect as a mandatory reporter. So it isn’t actually that uncommon. Leaving an infant in a car for 4 hours warrants a report to CPS.

    12. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Alison’s answer and this comment are unbelievable. You know who else’s life could get blown up? That of the 4-month-old infant who was left in a vehicle for 4 hours alone. The LW should have called 911 and should do so if they learn again that the child is in the car alone. This is an immediate emergency.

      You can’t leave a 4-month-old infant alone, unattended, period.

      1. Unaccountably*

        If it’s an immediate emergency – which I agree, it was – the obvious immediate solution is not to call 911 and hope the AC doesn’t go out before the police get there. It’s to tell the mother to go bring the child inside, immediately.

        It’s the child’s endangered life that’s the emergency. Punishing the mother can wait until the baby’s safe.

      2. Observer*

        The LW should have called 911 and should do so if they learn again that the child is in the car alone. This is an immediate emergency.

        Nope. The OP found out about it after the fact. 911 is useless (or worse) in that case.

        If it happens again while the OP is around, the FIRST thing they should to is to insist that mom brings the baby in. Only call 911 if Mom refuses.

        1. Glomarization, Esq.*

          The co-workers, then, should have called 911.

          I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. An office full of people who couldn’t figure out that a 4-month-old infant wasn’t safe sitting in a car by itself for 4 hours.

          2. Observer*

            <I.The co-workers, then, should have called 911.

            No. They should have brought the baby in!

            I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. An office full of people who couldn’t figure out that a 4-month-old infant wasn’t safe sitting in a car by itself for 4 hours.

            Not just you. I just can’t figure out what is wrong with these people!

      3. Nameless in Customer Service*

        Can we even try to find out if Cora is helpable first, person to person? Being put in foster care is not necessarily a perfect salvation

        1. EmRo*

          But again, placing a call to CPS does not necessarily equal foster care. Otherwise any stranger off the street could call and make accusations and your child would be taken away. Typically CPS has 24 hours (may vary) to make contact with the family to begin investigate a complaint. Depending on the type of complaint and the initial interview they may drop it, they may investigate further or they may come up with a plan right away for the family to follow. But it is not a certainty that the child will be taken.

    13. Rain's Small Hands*

      I am driven to add historical context because, well….

      Back in the good old days when women didn’t work….women worked. Poor women worked. Women of color worked, and immigrants worked. And childcare – good childcare – was not accessible to these women. If you didn’t have a relative or neighbor who wasn’t working (and when you are poor, everyone who can work does work) you didn’t have childcare. Women would tie their young children to the kitchen table with a rope and go to work for the day. Because the other option was starving. These were the circumstances that lead to people like Jane Addams starting the social services movement. It was less a driver for the labor movement – which was more centered on the needs of working class men – but if working class men could get paid a decent wage their wives might be able to stay at home with kids – at least until the kids could be self sufficient (which was a much younger age than we’d find remotely appropriate now). Some women were lucky enough to have a neighbor who didn’t work – usually because she couldn’t work – who would watch the kids. Now a woman who can’t work because she is nearly blind, or disabled with arthritis, or drunk isn’t the best childcare – especially for a toddler (and she honestly probably used rope as well, it wasn’t an uncommon means to care for children in the late 19th and early to mid 20th century), but its better than a 12 hour day where you leave your toddler tied to the table with some water. Standards changed with child labor laws and in particular with WWII, where WE needed the women in the workforce, women who were middle class enough to be able to expect that their children wouldn’t be raised by rope. After WWII we needed those women out of the workforce – and removing childcare was a way to do it.

      I’m saying this because the only long term solution is political pressure to actually have good affordable daycare options in this country that are not staffed by women who have a passion for the work, so why pay them a living wage. (note deep sarcasm). That isn’t a short term solution and the baby will likely be an adult before it happens.

      2. Nameless in Customer Service*

        Well said. The base of these issues is a lack of societal support that will not be fixed by all the punitive actions society can produce.

      3. WillowSunstar*

        We also need people in positions of power at companies to allow people paid time off in emergency child care situations so things like this don’t happen. Children’s lives shouldn’t have to be risked because they won’t pay PTO.

    14. Ann*

      Since the boss is aware, he could be part of the solution. Maybe it’s a good idea to bring up letting Cora bring baby into the office if there’s a child care emergency, or letting her take time off on short notice. CPS is a punishment for someone who’s already in a tight spot, not a solution. This family needs solutions. “We’ll be watching you and will take your child if you screw up again” doesn’t help that much.
      It’s horrifying that she thought leaving the baby in the car is OK, and of course it’s a good idea to have two or three backups for child care, but realistically, even with family support having multiple backups is hard because most people have their own lives and may not be sitting at home waiting for you to call them for emergency child care. Sometimes there’s just no one to watch the child except their mom, and there has to be a way for her to do that without losing her job.
      And yes, someone should absolutely, 200%, talk to her ASAP about what a dangerous decision that was and how it could have gone wrong.

    15. Here we go again*

      I’ve had to let my step daughter be dropped off at my work (retail) while I closed down. About 20-30 minutes and She was an early teen. She could’ve sat in the car while I did this but it’s not worth the risk. So she was playing on her phone with me in a locked store while I did paper work. If it’s not unsafe like working with chemicals or a hot kitchen please just bring the kid inside.

    16. GlitterIsEverything*

      What I’m not seeing in these comments is any understanding of exactly how desperate Cora must have been to make the decision she did.

      I was a suddenly single mom when my kids were little. I literally had to find child care overnight for two toddlers. The sheer terror involved is something that can’t fully be grasped unless you’ve been in it. The worst part is that, when you’re in the middle of it, you can’t see solutions *because* the situation is dire.

      LW#1, I cannot encourage you enough to talk to Cora, ask her what child care options she has currently, and work with her to think about other options. Hopefully your boss can offer her emergency shelter for the baby should she have another child care emergency (far more common now, by the way, thanks to daycare closures for COVID exposures or cases). Maybe this is an opportunity to talk to your boss yourself, and suggest some child care networking inside your office – some of your staff may have teen family members or friends who would be interested in being backup for situations like this during the summer. Or maybe someone has a great child care provider they’re willing to share information for. Or someone has a stay at home family member with an infant or toddler who might be willing to take the baby in on an as needed basis. Or, or, or…. Brainstorming can come up with a lot of really creative solutions.

      We’ve all heard “it takes a village.” This is what that means. The more people (not necessarily authorities) who get involved in helping Cora, the less desperate and alone she will feel, and she’ll see better options when emergencies happen.

      1. Nameless in Customer Service*

        I was going to write this comment but your version is better, not least because of your direct experience. I’ve had friends who were in your situation and I am very glad you and your children survived.

      2. EmRo*

        I can absolutely appreciate Cora’s desperation and terror. But, from the sounds of it, she did not even try to call her boss to work out a solution when there truly was no one else to watch her baby. Everyone is assuming it is a one off situation made out of desperation but there is also the possibility that there is a pattern of neglect or that it continues as the baby grows up. So often people look the other way, or assume the best intentions by a parent who makes a gross error like this, or thinks it isn’t their business or that CPS will make it worse and so many kids grow up in neglectful and/or abusive situations as a result. The very best outcome here is that it was a desperate decision made just once, but we don’t know that is true.

        1. Attractive Nuisance*

          +1. I never like the idea of “let’s not report, just this once.” That’s how people get away with things for years – because everyone thinks they’re the one person giving this person a second chance. And as much as I want to see Cora as someone who made one mistake and just needs some support from her employer and coworkers, that’s hard to reconcile with what happened here. She had a childcare emergency – which is a thing that happens to all parents at some point – and her response was to put her child in a very dangerous situation. I can’t see Cora as an ok parent who just needs an extra babysitter. There’s some serious dysfunction here, and I think it’s way above LW’s pay grade to address.

          1. Ayla*

            I am relieved to see this perspective. My siblings and I (frankly, miraculously) all survived, but between one disinterested parent and one severely depressed one, we spent a lot of time in danger and all ended up with physical and/or mental damage from neglect. We were left alone often, in cars and at home; at 3 I would regularly wander the streets by myself, my brother kept lighting fires in the garage at 6, we were often sent to school sick or injured, but because everybody only saw one or two incidents, nobody ever stepped in. I was a teenager before relatives started comparing n9tes and realized something was seriously wrong, and by then a lot of damage had already been done.

            Unless OP has the time to follow Cora around 24/7 and investigate whether her child is otherwise safe and cared for, it might be a good idea to bring in someone who can. Just in case.

      3. Big Bank*

        I absolutely get that she was desperate, but I’m at a loss as to why that desperation didn’t lend to sitting the baby at her desk. Inside. That’s not a great solution, but in an emergency it’s the one you lean on here versus leaving your kid in the car!!!! I have a dog and when it’s hot, we leave the car/ac running to grab food at a Sheetz or use the restroom. For those 5 minutes, I fret. About my dog. Who poops outside and can be left unsupervised for hours at home. I just can’t even get to a place where I replicate that with a baby, and certainly not over four hours!

        She needs to be set down to discuss emergency options with her manager. And told, in very clear terms, the car is not an option. I’m on the fence on whether CPS is needed now, but if she tries it after a conversation or pushes back that it was totally fine what she did, then you absolutely call.

      4. Observer*

        What I’m not seeing in these comments is any understanding of exactly how desperate Cora must have been to make the decision she did.

        Oh, we get it. But there is still a limit.

        Did you hear about the legislator who said that she would shoot her grand-kids to protect them? She had to try to “explain” that one away because she rightly got enormous pushback. Like how does a sentence like that come out of a sane person’s mouth? But the thing is that what Cora did is not all THAT far from that. Not *the same* because Cora didn’t actually harm the kid. But she did put the kid at significant risk. Presumably in the name of protecting the child.

    17. CPS is no bueno*

      from a former foster parent. You are doing the kid no favors by reporting child abuse. Help the mom. She’s trying. My mom would leave me in the car with the windows down when I was a toddler to run into the grocery store real quick in the early 80’s. Was that child abuse? No, she didn’t know of another option. And I’m fine. If you could help find the mom emergency child care then you might just solve all the problems.

    18. Coffee Nut*

      The staggering amount of commenters here advocating that the BEST solution is to call the state to rip a four month old baby from her mother’s sobbing, screaming arms for the crime of POVERTY is astonishing. I was recently in this position as a manager – I quietly paid my employee while helping her navigate the very complex and slow subsidized childcare system. Also this country is extremely messed up.

    19. LittleMarshmallow*

      I really hope the manager verifies if this even actually happened. The overheard word of a couple of office gossips that didn’t seem to think it was concerning enough to do anything about in the moment seems highly suspect to me. Not necessarily good enough reason to elevate this to CPS yet.

      I agree OP could talk to Cora to get a feel for what’s going on but it seems like a bit assumption that this even happened at all to the degree that the two busybodies were saying.

      1. Agent Diane*

        I was scanning the comments to see if anyone else had mentioned this. Right now, OP only has hearsay this happened. From two colleagues who…did nothing. For four hours.

        If there were three people on shift at reception, they could very easily all have taken staggered “comfort breaks” where they were really minding the baby. They didn’t.

        I’d have talked to Cara before talking to the manager to check if it were true. And to see if there are ways to help. If she really felt leaving a baby in a car was less risky than bringing them inside, why is that? Fear of being fired and losing the income? What does that say about her perception of the organisations culture that she didn’t feel she could do it, or ask to do it? Or call in to miss a shift?

        Since you have raised it with the manager, please talk to Cara as a concerned friend, not a colleague. And please go into the conversation with “I heard this happened…” and not “This happened…”.

        And please update us.

    20. Iheoma*

      As a person who worked in Child Welfare in Illinois for 3 years, let me tell you what happens when you call DCFS. First, a DCP ( a trained investigator) goes onsite to the family’s home to make an inquiry and observe the child and parent(s). If the child is in immediate danger. They are taken into state custody. If not, DCFS will open a case against the family and monitor them. The monitoring can last for months or years depending on what was observed. Reporting what you overheard about Cora will not address what actually happen ( or what you heard happened) but will open her family’s life for scrutiny about how she’s parenting overall. If that’s what you really to do, then move forward. If not, then consider if that call is worth it. On another note, what kind of people talk about a child being left in a car for 4 hrs but do nothing to help the child or her mother? Was there no option for her to be brought inside? That says a lot about the company and the gossiping colleagues

    21. Person of Interest*

      As someone who works in the child welfare space, I’d recommend seeing if your state has Family Resource Centers to refer Cora to, which are meant to be a one-stop shop for help with all kinds of family stabilization issues including finding child care options. They are often part of your state child welfare system but are a step less severe than filing an report, which as others have said can be way more harmful to the family.

  3. Aphrodite*

    #3. Those roles that use “bubbly personality” will never get “de-gendered” as no male is likely to apply for them. It’s sexist language intended to maintain the status quo. And it will.

    1. CCCP*

      Add to the idea that working women need to be ‘pleasing’ to others in such a way… *roll eyes*

    2. Artemesia*

      NOt just gendered. Grossly sexist. Women are playthings, are not serious, must be cute and pleasing to men. As a never bubbly personality who finds bubbly women annoying, this one will never not grate.

      2. Just Your Everyday Crone*

        Yeah, “bubbly personality” is not just pleasant or polite, it’s requiring a performance that is above and beyond what’s necessary.

        1. Curmudgeon in California*

          Yes. It requires a performance of a ultra-feminine people-pleasing stereotype. It’s a gross requirement – sexist and demeaning.

          “Bubbly” makes my teeth itch.

      3. Seeking second childhood*

        I can get pretty darned bubbly in social situations, but I grate on my OWN nerves if I catch myself doing it at work.
        Let’s hope this one falls out of circulation quickly.

      4. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

        I have had people describe me as “bubbly” and it always takes me aback because I really am not and I never can figure out why. I asked once and got, “You are generally in an [outwardly] good mood and keep everything upbeat during crises and stress”. Still don’t think that is bubbly

        1. Allonge*

          Which is reason 73468 why this is a wrong word to use in a job ad: wtf does it even mean? Especially referring to ‘personality’.

        2. Solidarity*

          If you presented as a man, you’d be told that you had an outgoing, dynamic personality.

          This is fully gendered bullshit.

          1. Girasol*

            I worked at a recruiter’s where the boss was never one to set morals above a paying placement. A hiring manager could call and say “I’ll only accept a woman” and job description would say, “perky,” which meant “don’t sent this guy a man or we’ll lose the account!” Conversely, “I don’t hire women” was coded as “must do heavy lifting.” It might be a file clerk who would never lift anything bigger than an overstuffed file folder, but there it was. We knew better than to send a strong woman because lifting was not the point. Occasionally we got a job description that said “perky. See Lee for details,” which meant that the hirer had specified details about the woman’s hair color and/or body measurements which had to be whispered and not be written down. I didn’t last long there but it was surely an education.

            1. TuxedoCat*

              “don’t sent this guy a man or we’ll lose the account!”

              Great, an assignment that would be terrible for the “lucky” woman who landed it, too, because keeping this guy’s account requires him being sent women to seduce in the office.

      5. LilPinkSock*

        It’s annoying to be friendly and high-energy? Maybe we have different definitions of the word.

            1. pancakes*

              I am not sure how you’re reading it as being about one in particular. I made a point of saying “women” rather than “woman” because it’s a generalization. It isn’t meant to apply to every single one. If I wanted to convey that I would’ve made a point of saying “all” or “every” or something along those lines. (That would of course be ridiculous).

        2. Rain's Small Hands*

          Often, yes. As someone who has spent a lot of time with “challenging” mental health is is often annoying to have someone around who is friendly and high energy. My problem, not yours. But sparkle isn’t something that is easily tolerated coming from others in all moods (and isn’t to be demanded of your coworkers).

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Yea it is tiring to deal with high energy people but mostly because everyone thinks that’s the right way to be so everyone is struggling to fake it.

          2. Ginger Dynamo*

            I find it helps to remember that those people often aren’t trying to sparkle or bubble *at* you. If they are, as if to teach you how or demand it of you, that’s a different story of course. But if they’re just going about their day with a positive attitude and a polite manner, I don’t think the annoyance is exactly fair. (And I say this as someone who gets annoyed by over-bubbly presentation. Usually my annoyance is because I can either tell it’s not genuine, or someone is being patronizing *while being bubbly*. The bubbliness itself is less annoying than the insincerity.)

            1. Please Mark This Confidential and Leave It Lying Around*

              I absolutely weaponized my good cheer at a colleague who was making life difficult for me. I caught on to how she could not deal with my chipperness at 9am and I sparkled ruthlessly. Years later, she’d moved on to another company and ugh! my department had to work with her! I braced myself for her revenge but all she remembered was that I was “really nice!” Eee!

              So no, I wasn’t trying to “teach” her anything but yeah: grumps use grumpiness to intimidate, sparklers can sparkle you into a heap of ash.

        3. Observer*

          It’s annoying to be friendly and high-energy?

          In some situations, YES. Not the friendly part, but the “high energy”. If I’m coming into a ophthalmologist’s office, I’m probably having headaches, problems seeing, or something else problematic going on. I really, really am not interested in a “high energy” interaction.

          Friendly? Yes. Empathetic? Would be nice. Efficient? PLEASE, YES!

          The rest? No.

          1. Curmudgeon in California*

            This. I do not want to be bubbled at in the doctors office. Calm, efficient and professional? Yes. Bubbly and bouncy like a champion cheerleader on uppers? No thanks.

      6. Ginger Dynamo*

        I get more annoyed by the personal expectation to be bubbly than by bubbly people themselves nowadays. That’s partially because I had to unlearn a lot of internalized sexism that taught me to find bubbly girls and women annoying because I hated the stereotype that I had to be bubbly too in order to be appropriately feminine. Disliking bubbly women because you don’t like the stereotype was like passing the situational blame for sexist expectations onto other women as though it’s their fault, in my case. It didn’t address the root of the problem, which was that a bubbly personality should not be required of girls and women for them to be accepted in social and professional spaces, even while some women do express that energy naturally.

    3. Riley and Jonesy*

      Ugh, and another word that is highly gendered is ‘feisty’. I was called that the other day when I was debating something with a client. It just sounds so limp and irritable rather than what I was hoping to convey which was taking a strong line of advice to my client.
      I’m pretty sure no man has ever been called bubbly or feisty. Except Graham Norton.

        1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

          I dunno I’ve been called feisty and I’m not short. Well not in height. I can be short in speech when I’m trying hard to filter my thoughts.

        2. Zephy*

          Yeah, “feisty” has a connotation of both “small” and “aggressive, but not an actual threat.” “Feist” is an archaic word for a small dog, like a rat terrier/dachshund/similar little dog bred for pest control. The etymology probably doesn’t support the extension of “noun for small dog that kills rats > adjective describing such dogs + noun denoting breeding female canines > extension of meaning to human females, derogatory = ‘feisty’ as a way to call a woman both nonthreatening and a b*tch at the same time,” but I would bet the venn diagram of people who use both of those words to describe women is a circle (or two circles with VERY slim margins that don’t overlap).

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Yep, I learned this one from Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings’ book The Yearling,. Jody’s father Penny bests Lem Forrester in a barter by skillfully snowing him into swapping an ineffectual feist for a really nice hunting rifle.

            It’s not an appropriate term to use in reference to a woman, especially at work.

      2. Seeking second childhood*

        I’ll add Agent Zed (Rip Torn) in Men in Black II, but that was spoken by sarcastic super-villain possibly tired of hearing the word about herself.

      3. lyonite*

        “Whip-smart” is the one that makes me irrationally angry. I mostly see it in book descriptions, always about a female character (because who would be surprised that a man is smart?) and it pretty much invariably leads me to put the book down.

    4. Irish Teacher*

      There’s also something childish about it. When I hear “bubbly personality,” I think of a teenage girl or recent college grad, who is very enthusiastic, but perhaps a little naive or childish. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t imagine thinking of a woman in her 40s or 50s with a professional job as being “bubbly” at work. It conjures up a picture of a college student covering reception as a summer job and really enthusiastic about getting some work experience.

      Again, it may be just me, but it sort of conjures up a picture that buys into the idea that women are sweet and innocent and “nice” and not REAL professionals.

      1. Rain's Small Hands*

        You have never had “that” dental hygienist? A woman in her 40s for whom this is the perfect job because she gets to do an eight hour long monolog with her bubbly personality going overboard (and you get to hear about her cats, how anyone can talk about their cats for eight hours a day five days a week is beyond me – I like cats, I have three, but I’d run out of things to say after about five minutes).

        1. RussianInTexas*

          I have! I have one in my dentist’s office, and the receptionists tried to schedule my next appointment on the day I did not request because “you can have Fran again”, and I insisted it was ok I did not see Fran again.

      2. Weaponized Pumpkin*

        It can happen — I’ve been told at work that i have a bubbly personality and I’m a middle-aged consultant. I am quick to laugh and smile, can put off a lot of high energy, and tend to be quite expressive. One thing I like about being on video is I can see when I need tone it down because being too enthusiastic is “not professional”. Which, honestly, I think is kind of bullshit but I know I have to play the game in some environments.

    6. I'd Rather Be Eating Dumplings*

      I’ve been described as ‘bubbly’ a few times and I’ve always hated it because I feel as though it often carries the connotation that I’m very enthusiastic, responsive and friendly — but then doesn’t offer credit for those qualities but positions them as attributes I only have because I’m too stupid, naive or uncomplicated to act any differently.

    7. This-is-a-name-I-guess*

      *gay* men will apply for those jobs. Which is further evidence that homophobia and sexism are two sides of the same coin.

      1. Rain's Small Hands*

        A friend of mine who does social justice work says “all the discrimination starts with misogyny, its the original sin of ‘some people are worth more than others'”

    8. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      I find that “bubbly” is used to mean “female: fat but cheerful and pleasant” with all the unpleasantness that implies on every level. UK, so this may be dialect.

      1. Ginger Dynamo*

        I think there is some dialectical difference here, yes. Is the US, “bubbly” is often associated with the same contexts where you might use “ditzy,” without the obvious slant of intentional negative connotation. It’s associated with being naive or even childish, uncomplicated, and sometimes also young.

        1. Here we go again*

          Unless this position is for a cheerleader I don’t think bubbly is a trait that needs to be in a job description.

        2. Kal*

          Yeah, I’m in Canada, and for me the cliche “bubbly” person if I were to imagine it would be a skinny, white teenage girl who is fairly naive and energetic, and acts like everything is always happy, often even in situations where it isn’t appropriate. (Think Amanda Seyfried’s role in Mean Girls).

          The term brings so much cultural baggage with it, and it really shouldn’t ever be applied to jobs.

    9. Sparkles McFadden*

      During the interview for a post-retirement job, I was was told that the position required me to be “Happy and perky.” This was repeated three times during the interview: “We only want upbeat people. Can you be happy and perky every day?” I replied “I can be professional with bonus features of biting sarcasm and sardonic wit.” They ignored that completely and were somehow confused when I pulled myself out of the running.

      2. English Rose*

        What a fabulous response you made, @Sparkles. I wish I could think of things like this in the moment.

      3. DJ Abbott*

        Haha, they didn’t understand it. :D
        I’ve known a few people who ignore anything they don’t understand.

    10. English Rose*

      I’m a recruiter. I would NEVER use a phrase like that in a job ad, it’s grossly sexist.

      Interestingly though I have noticed this phrase crop up more and more recently in women’s (always women) descriptions of themselves in cover letters. “I’d be a great fit for this job because I have a bubbly personality…” I’m tempted to devise a standard email response pointing them to Alison’s site!

    11. NeedsMoreCookies*

      I’m left wondering if the bubbles they’re really searching for are located halfway between the neck and the navel, if you catch my drift.

  5. Heidi*

    Asking people to go without health insurance during a pandemic seems extra wrong to me. That would be good enough of a reason to ask without getting into the chronic illness. What’s the point of withholding that 2 months? Do they not want to do all the paperwork in case an employee quits in that period?

    1. learnedthehardway*

      It’s partly to make sure the employee works out before the company goes to the expense of having them on their insurance policy. It’s also partly the insurance company wanting to delay having to pay out insurance coverage as long as possible, and (possibly) also to prevent people from taking jobs just to get the insurance coverage and then quitting in short order (that seems like a lot of effort to me, but insurance companies really don’t like to pay out if they don’t have to).

      It is pretty standard in negotiations to request that the benefits waiting period be waived. I would definitely suggest asking. Whether it is possible or not would depend on the company’s and the insurance firm’s policies.

      1. MSWIntern*

        I work in healthcare. Every single one of my jobs had a waiting period where you had to work full time anywhere from a month to ninety days. I won’t even talk about the high-end retirement facility where I worked PRN (or per-diem, basically a substitute nurse) for a year before being offered a full time job. Then they screwed up my paperwork, which delayed me getting health insurance until I was working there full-time for six months.

        I am finishing up my MSW and am interviewing for a Case Management job in a hospital. This hospital offers health benefits on day one of employment. I really hope I get this job. I interviewed with the manager and even shadowed a potential colleague for two hours. I have a phone interview with HR this afternoon.

        But, yes, for me, health insurance always had a waiting period.

        1. Brooklyn*

          If anyone that follows this blog needed more of a reason to support single payer Healthcare, read this comment a few more times. A healthcare professional could not receive medical care FOR A YEAR AND A HALF while working in the field. This is abhorrent. It’s heartbreaking. The next time any feels guilty for not working overtime or for quitting and leaving the company in a bad spot, remember that if they could get away with it, most companies would do exactly this. This is the system we live in.

          1. MSWIntern*

            I’m definitely in favor of single payer healthcare. And that retirement facility’s mismanagement is what I think of when people squawk about the wait-times for single-payer. I actually wrote a very thorough research paper for school about why US needs Medicare for All. I talked about the real cause of long wait times, which basically boils down to lack of healthcare providers, regardless of payer source. I talked about how people still avoid purchasing health insurance due to cost, even with the ACA. I discussed how people with health insurance are more likely to access preventive care, helping them to lose weight and catching and turning the tide of prediabetes. I talked about how populations more prone to obesity and diabetes (low income minorities) are less likely to be insured and that these risk factors have been shown to lead to worse outcomes with COVID. I even cited research showing that having had Covid causes changes in your body that makes it more likely that you will develop diabetes. I talked a lot about how lack of adequate insurance leads to poor diabetes care and rationing insulin, leading to more uncomfortable and expensive complications like kidney failure (which could potentially require dialysis for the rest of a person’s life). I also cited research showing that, in the coming years, obese will be the most common weight category for low-income minority women. It had a lot of good information. I wrote it months ago, so I may be hazy on the specific details, but I can always dig it up if anyone is interested in reading it.

            1. Migraine Month*

              I find it interesting to get all the way to the end of the reasoning about the long wait times.

              “I don’t want single payer.”
              Why? “Because there are really long wait times for operations.”
              Why? “Because more people are getting healthcare, and those with more serious conditions are scheduled first.”
              Why? “Because without those operations, they would become much sicker and possibly die.”
              Why? “Because they can’t afford life-saving healthcare under the current system.”

              Yet very few people are willing to come straight out and say, “I’m fine with poor people dying just so I can get my non-emergency knee replacement surgery done earlier.”

            2. Not One of the Bronte Sisters*

              I’d love to read it. I can get it to someone who can get it in front of Bernie Sanders and other Progressives.

      2. firestarter11*

        I can’t believe I’ve never heard of this, and that it’s so common! Without insurance in the US, everyone is just one bad accident away from lifelong debt, and that’s not even factoring in chronic illness.

        I had to go a few months without health insurance when I turned 26 because I was a grad student making $9,600 a year, Medicaid denied me (for no reason), and I wasn’t making enough to get a Marketplace/Obamacare plan. It’s such a scary experience! I was so careful driving during that time….

      3. HoundMom*

        It is not legal to change the waiting period for one person. It violates ERISA. If you change the waiting period for one person, you must do it for ALL people. If you don’t, the company and all plan participants lose the tax favored status of the benefits.

        The way around this is to ask the employer to pay for COBRA from the prior company. That happens pretty frequently.

    2. JSPA*

      My answer to, “I don’t know what employers who do this are thinking” is that they can weed out people with (expensive) existing conditions without, yknow, doing the explicitly illegal thing of, actively discriminating against people with existing conditions.

      1. anne of mean gables*

        Yup. My husband is in a similar situation as the OP – his (very effective) medication to manage a chronic, invisible autoimmune disorder would wipe out his salary without insurance. Luckily we are married and I have a very stable job with very good health insurance – otherwise his career (biotech startups) would be totally untenable for him. I am appalled that other commenters are saying this is relatively normal in their fields – chronic conditions aside, what about car accidents?

        1. Sotired*

          Car accidents — you can generally get paid under your or the other drivers auto insurance

          1. Clobberin' Time*

            IF your insurance is sufficient, IF the other driver is not uninsured or underinsured, and IF your insurance company does what it’s supposed to do, instead of delaying and dragging out payment to maximize the float time on whatever it invested your premiums in.

        2. Antilles*

          For the answer of “what about car accidents”, there’s basically three options:
          1.) Join your spouse’s policy temporarily as a “qualifying event” until your coverage kicks in.
          2.) Buy your own short-term policy, which is typically quite expensive.
          3.) Roll the dice and pray hard that nothing happens in the next X months before the insurance kicks in.

          I don’t have any statistics here, but I’m guessing that #3 is far and away the most common option.

          1. Antilles*

            As Sotired noted, for car accidents in particular, auto insurance probably covers it.
            So feel free to imagine the “car accidents” is more of a general term about completely unexpected medical conditions – sudden heart attack, a nasty flu, a broken bone from a fall, etc.

            1. JSPA*

              In plenty / most / maybe all? states, you’re not required to have car insurance that covers you (only the other person)…and I’ve never been hit except by people who were driving (illegally) without that minimum insurance.

          2. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

            I’ve always done #3 and hoped that it worked out. Mr. Gumption and I aren’t married so #1 isn’t an option and probably isn’t for many couples. What if the spouse doesn’t have health insurance either?

          3. Curmudgeon in California*

            Yep. I did #3 a lot when I was younger and unmarried. I simply couldn’t afford to buy my own insurance and had to wait fort my employer’s plan to kick in. If I was a temp, there was no insurance. ACA plans may be expensive, but at least you get one that actually covers stuff. Before the ACA individual plans were nearly impossible to find, didn’t cover much, and were too expensive for a young working person to even consider affording.

        3. Agile Phalanges*

          I have a chronic condition AND am accident-prone (I have a horse and fall off every few months, once got an ambulance ride, ER visit, CT scan, and concussion diagnosis while I was uninsured). So when I quit my job with insurance for another where it didn’t start for 90 days, I went on the healthcare exchange and insured myself for those months. I’ve also had a job that didn’t have ANY insurance, though, so I guess I’m used to it…

        4. EmmaPoet*

          I’m on surgery number 6 in the last 15 months, with at least two more to go. If I didn’t have my (really good) insurance through my govt job, I’d be bankrupt and possibly dead at this point.

      3. Inigo Montoya.*

        It is often a requirement from the insurance provider. They either require it or it costs the company less if there is a waiting period. I have had a waiting period at most of my private sector jobs, except for the ones at very large organizations. It is not necessarily “what is the employer thinking” because if they are a small org, they may not have a choice.

        1. Texan In Exile*

          Interesting. I worked for a health insurance company for five years and we never required a waiting period. It was completely the client’s choice. Clients who chose it did so because they had high-turnover jobs. This was back when everything was done on paper.

          But it was rare to have a waiting period – most companies had first-day coverage. (And we required employers to pay 100% of the employee premium, too.)(I miss those days.)

          Companies that chose it now? I would be surprised if the insurer is requiring it. I see it more as a meanness, because it’s very easy to enroll or disenroll someone from the plan now.

          1. Texan In Exile*

            And reading the comments from HR people, I see that this actually is a health insurance company thing now in some cases. So evil is everywhere.

    3. JustSomeone*

      Is this not standard? I’ve worked at 5 different organizations in my career, and all but one have had a 3-ish month period before benefits kick in. The only exception was not in the private sector.

      1. NewJobGuy*

        I just started a new private sector job at a ~50,000 person company and health insurance kicks in day 1.

      2. Shiba Dad*

        My experience has been similar.

        For example, I started my current job a few years ago (pre pandemic) and I had to work a full calendar month before I was on the companies insurance. I started in the first week of November. My insurance started January 1st. I had to go the COBRA route in the interim. This is a Fortune 500 company. I don’t know if this policy has changed since I started.

        I have heard of companies starting people on their insurance on day 1 but i have not experienced it myself.

        1. Smitty*

          I had the same experience at my most recent employer. I started in the first week of September. I had to work a full calendar month and then coverage began the 1st of the month after that. As a result my coverage started on 1 November.

          It’s rough because paying out-of-pocket for coverage during that time (through COBRA) is not inexpensive for an individual.

        2. Anya Last Nerve*

          This has been my experience at the 2 extremely large (over 100k employees) companies I have worked at too.

        4. Elizabeth West*

          I have not either. Exjob: one month until full benefits, including health insurance. Every other job: 90 days (that’s three months), or no insurance at all.

      3. Ela*

        Same. And as a result, my chronic illness got baaaaaad and I had to do a lot of expensive & time consuming care once I did have insurance. My manager is still kicking himself over this, years later, because it cost the company a lot more than continuous coverage would.

      4. Hannah Lee*

        It’s been typical for me too. And it’s typically done at the plan level, so it wasn’t possible to single out one employee for a different eligibility date.

        What I have seen is employees either using COBRA to keep prior coverage or getting on an exchange plan for a few months. Where the employer might be flexible is in reimbursing the employee for a portion of that cost during the 3 months. (whatever amount they contribute to premiums in their group plan) I’ve seen that negotiated a few times.

      5. As per Elaine*

        While I’ve had a waiting period for stuff like getting on the 401(k) plan, I’ve always had healthcare coverage effective day 1.

        1. Curmudgeon in California*

          These days most companies offer day one health coverage. It used to be many had ridiculous waiting periods, and I was uncovered a lot because of it.

      6. AdequateArchaeologist*

        Of my last three companies only one delayed health insurance. Funnily enough it was the one with the best benefits/premiums!

      7. kittycontractor*

        I don’t think I’ve ever worked a job where health care starts on Day 1 so I always just ran with COBRA from the previous job until the new one kicks in.

      8. Just Another Techie*

        I have never had a benefits waiting period — always full insurance, sick days, 401k matching, etc, on day 1 (although the 401k matching did have a vesting schedule)

      9. ThatGirl*

        In my first jobs out of college there was a short waiting period, but in the last ten years both my husband and I have been covered on day one of new jobs.

      10. Paris Geller*

        Yeah, any job I’ve ever had (in the public sector) or that my husband has had (private sector) has had a waiting period. The waiting period varies, but there’s always one. My current job had the shortest waiting period–30 days.

        1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

          I have a relative that just started working for our state government, and not only is there no waiting period, medical and dental coverage are free. It may be rare but it does exist.

          1. Paris Geller*

            Oh, it definitely happens–my dad spent most of his life working for (a different) municipal government that had no waiting period, paid 100% of their health insurance premiums, and free dental coverage. I believe vision was the only one not completely covered. It’s rare though–I don’t know of anyone else who has had that experience!

      11. Miette*

        Not standard in my experience. This has never been the case in the FTE jobs I’ve held.

      12. This-is-a-name-I-guess*

        Two nonprofit jobs, neither had great healthcare coverage.

        Current job: health insurance starts immediately.

        Previous job: health insurance starts on the first day of the first full month. This is partially because people are covered by their old insurance for the full month they leave. They would cover a month of COBRA or waive the waiting period if someone was unemployed previously and needs healthcare, especially if they start early in the month.

      13. kiki*

        All but one of the companies I’ve worked for had healthcare coverage starting day 1. I think there were some benefits with a delay (I think some specific vision and dental stuff?), but my actual health coverage started on day 1 everywhere but one company, which was very small. The small company’s insurance situation was a sticking point with hiring– I know several candidates explicitly called that out when they received their offer. I don’t know exactly why the small company had the delay and why they wouldn’t change it since it led to multiple promising candidates rejecting their offer, but the small company’s current employees were mostly in situations where they didn’t mind a gap in coverage, so the company was not very diverse.

      14. All Het Up About It*

        I’ve had a waiting period at most of my jobs if not all, but as I recall, it was 30 days or less for all of them. And when I was transferring straight from a job, that wasn’t a problem because we paid our health insurance a month in Advance, so I was covered by old job until new job kicked in.

        BUT – hard agree that gaps in health insurance are awful and yes, just another argument your heath insurance shouldn’t be tied to your job.

      15. RussianInTexas*

        Same, between a full calendar month to 90 days.
        The last job had 90 days of probation first and THEN you had 90 days before the insurance.

      16. firestarter11*

        I’ve honestly never heard of this! I am so glad it hasn’t happened to me. Do you just cancel all the medical appointments you had scheduled until the new insurance kicks in and hope nothing bad happens??

      17. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        Not that I can recall, at least not in the past 22 years in my experience. I never even heard of a waiting period, at least not in my recent memory. I wouldn’t have been able to take a job like that before, when my kids were young, and won’t be able to now, when I’m older and have more health issues.

        I’ve worked at a place that did not offer any dental insurance, period. My current job offered no PTO in the first six months and one week in the second six. IOW, I’ve seen some bad benefit packages. But I don’t remember seeing or hearing about a waiting period on health insurance. That’s just scary. What do people do for these 3 months? COBRA is expensive. Is it possible to get a marketplace policy on short notice and just for the three months?

        At least we’re hopefully no longer in the olden days, when, if you had a gap in insurance coverage and also had preexisting conditions, you couldn’t get back on an insurance plan after. (Happened to a coworker’s wife back in the 90s. He got insurance from our employer, she was denied.)

    4. Snow Globe*

      It may just be bureaucracy, at least partially. When I started at my current job, you could sign up for health insurance right away, but they wouldn’t start taking deductions for it until the next pay period after you start – unless the next pay period was within a few days then the next pay period after that, and then you wouldn’t actually be on the insurance until the 1st of the month after the first deduction. Or something like that.

    5. Governmint Condition*

      In my state, which is one of the bluest, we have to wait SIX months for health insurance to kick in. I can only assume that somewhere along he line, they had a pattern of ghosting from people who only wanted the insurance and hardly bothered to show up for work.

    6. Susie*

      At my current company, it’s 30 days before medical coverage becomes effective. At some manufacturing facilities, it used to be 90 days, but I think they have changed that due to the pandemic. My husband’s vision coverage doesn’t kick in until after 6 months.

    7. straws*

      It’s awful, but sometimes it’s not the company’s decision. We tried to change ours to start on the first day of employment, but the plans that we are on wouldn’t allow it. We had to go with the 1st of the month based on start date. If the person starts on the 1st, they get immediate coverage, if they start on the 2nd, they have to wait until the 1st of next month. Makes zero sense to me, but as a tiny company we get very limited options. We also are definitely not allowed to make exceptions to the waiting period – everyone is treated the same and that’s that.

      1. Shoney Honey*

        Seconding this! I am in HR for a small company (just less than 50 people) and our plans don’t allow coverage to start the first day of employment and they enforce a 30-day wait. The effective date for coverage depends on the start date, similar to the comment above, but there’s 30 days added in, so it’s 30 days from the first of the month after their start date. So if I had someone starting today (7/21), for example, their coverage would not be effective until September 1st. I can’t stand it but we are not given a choice in the matter.

    8. Artemesia*

      COBRA while hideously expensive (although free if you don’t use it during a two month transition) is the solution if the job is sufficiently desirable, but two months is a long time; most places it is a month. The biggest risk would be if there was a major health crisis during this time and they couldn’t take the new job.

      I knew someone years ago who got a catastrophic diagnosis during the period between leaving one job and starting the next. He could not proceed but was lucky to get his old job to take him back so he had insurance during serious treatment. That was an unusual bit of luck.

    9. pancakes*

      “Asking people to go without health insurance during a pandemic seems extra wrong to me.”

      I was hoping people were thinking hard about that the last time we were deciding on whether the best the US can aim for is “affordable healthcare” (i.e., some people will not be able to afford it and they’ll just have to go without) but the rhetoric around affordability remains nearly as normalized as it ever was, more than two years in to a worldwide pandemic.

    10. RG*

      I used to do benefits administration in two different states for a small company and we did not have access to any plans without a waiting period. Literally was not an option for us. The minimum was first of the month after your start date (i.e., if you started on the 15th, you had to wait until the first of the month. If you started on the 31st, your health insurance kicked in the next day). I would not be surprised if this varied by state.

      I think it’s tempting to imagine employers are making conscious choices about these things, but the health insurance company sets these rules.

      Tips: try to negotiate COBRA cost coverage (which should be close to what they’re paying for your monthly insurance anyway) or a signing bonus to cover that cost. Many employers are able to do that. It’ll be post-tax, but it’s better than nothing!

  6. Pennyworth*

    Luckily the baby came to no harm, but in Cora’s shoes I would have taken it into the office and put it under my desk. Unless she was leaving it to scream in the car it sounds like a good sleeper. Then I would have rung a babysitting service (or even a temp agency) to see if they could find someone to sit in the car with the baby for the rest of the shift.

    1. Tinkerbell*

      A babysitting service where I live would easily cost 2x a secretary’s hourly pay or more, even if someone was available on short notice (and I’d not count on that, in this day and age).

    2. Budgie Buddy*

      Yes, of Cora’s limited options bringing the baby into the office seems much better than leaving the baby in the still-running car. (Was the key in the ignition? Did she run a killer gas bill? What were the chances of someone driving off in her car with her infant before Cora could hang up the phone and sprint out to the sidewalk. YIKES)

      Unless… “better” for Cora means strictly not getting caught m, rather than completing her shift with baby still alive and well. But if that’s the case why did she tell the other receptionists??? Did she assume they wouldn’t “snitch?” This is BONKERS.

      1. grubsinmygarden*

        We can only infer what Cora’s dialogue with the other receptionists was like.

        And one inference, mine, is that it’s possible that Cora told them about the baby in the car hoping they’d help her accommodate an alternative solution in the office. Or maybe offer to cover for her so she can take frequent breaks.

        1. Observer*

          Yes, I was thinking about that. And it makes me very, very sad. And mad. Because if that’s what happened, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!

      2. Here we go again*

        Did anyone hear of the car jacking with the toddler inside and the thief pulled over and dropped the toddler off on the side of the freeway!? This was a last month down shouts.
        Thank God for the Good Samaritan who pulled over and made sure the kid was safe and called the police. That thief should be charged with kid napping and attempted homicide on top of car jacking. Poor kid could’ve been ran over or even died of heat stroke, not to mention being kidnapped.

    4. Workerbee*

      If Cora could have gotten a babysitter in the first place, then there would have been no need to bring the baby to work. It does sound far more like an act of desperation. The gossipy co-workers could have turned their energy into helping her find a better solution, since they knew about it and were still talking about it afterward.

      2. Chief Petty Officer Tabby*

        That’s what gets me! We have allowed one of our groomers (I work at a dog daycare) to bring her kids to work with her when she had no other options; one of the managers just tucked them into her office away from the dogs and kept an eye on them for her. Nobody had a problem with it.

        Same happened for a dog handler on a Sunday; they were tucked into the break room with snacks for the shift and nobody batted an eye.

    5. Ruby*

      I continue to be amazed at commenters on this site who think childcare can be just ordered like a pizza. That’s not how this works.

      1. Artemesia*

        Even for people of means childcare is extremely difficult. My toddler grandson’s day care was closed for a long time during COVID (and imagine the impact on employees there) and then when it re-opened could only take half the number of kids it had previously — and of course, has again closed now and then when a COVID case occurred and when kids have COVID in their family, they were not allowed back until quarantined and then tested.

        Child care has always been hard, but now it is hideously difficult.

    6. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

      When I was a kid and my care fell through back in the 70s, my mom used to pull out her bottom filing cabinet drawer, empty it, stick me in it, and pray like hell I wasn’t going to make noise. When she had classes to teach (MBA program lecturer), she just brought me to class and stuck my stroller next to the podium and once again prayed like hell that I didn’t act up. Apparently her boss didn’t care as long as work was done

      1. Here we go again*

        When my mom did taxes and I had a snow day I had to go to work with her and put hundreds of stickers on Manila folders that said 1993.

    7. CoveredinBees*

      No. She would not be able to get someone same day, let alone in timely enough manner to get to work on time. Especially someone who can look after such a young kid. You also pay a premium for using those services on top of regular babysitting rates. Where I am, that’s $20+ per hour. Additionally, the companies often do a limited screening and you can choose to pay for a more extensive background check, which takes time and more money.

  7. Anon for this*

    As a medical professional, I highly disagree with the advice on #1. This was not only neglect, but could have easily ended with the death of this child. Keep in mind the heat index is over 100 degrees right now in many parts of the US:

    1. The baby could have slid down and suffocated
    2. The AC could have stopped or not kept up and caused the baby to die of dehydration/overheating
    3. The baby would have needed a diaper change in 4 hours
    4. The baby would have needed fed in 4 hours
    5. The baby could have been crying and was not being interacted with

    This should be reported to CPS. Your coworkers also should have insisted on bringing in the baby as soon as they became aware. I know people can be overwhelmed but what other times is this parent putting the baby at risk?

    1. Missb*

      I agree. I’m a mandatory reporter so there is no wiggle room for me. If I came across this situation, I’d be reporting it. That baby deserves to live.

      Sorry, I don’t have much concern to how much it could blow up her life. You don’t leave a baby alone in a car for multiple hours on purpose.

      1. Esmeralda Fitzmonster*

        I understand your point, but putting a desperate mother in an even more desperate situation increases the danger for the baby.

        1. Avocadon’t*

          Well, if the baby DIES because it was left alone in a car for hours in the middle of summer, nothing else matters. I’m horrified beyond horrified at the responses I’m reading here. Why do these commenters have so much compassion for the woman and so little for a completely helpless, dependent infant? I’m very sorry for the mom if she’s in such dire straits, but the number one thing increasing danger for this baby right now is the situation at hand. It has to be taken VERY seriously and addressed.

          1. Just Another Techie*

            I don’t think anyone here lacks compassion for the baby. The difference of opinion is how to best keep the baby safe. I, and other commenters, are arguing that helping mom will *also* help baby. Every single commenter has been very clear that the mom cannot ever leave her child in the car for an entire shift ever again. It’s a little dishonest to insinuate that anyone here thinks what the mother did was okay.

            1. pancakes*

              Yes, thank you. Really not a fan of attempts to disguise that with extremely emotive language.

          2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

            Because unless you’re advocating for the infant to go to foster care over this specific incident, the infant’s well-being is inseparable from the mother’s well-being. Compassion for Cora *is* compassion for her baby.

            1. Avocadon’t*

              Not if people are firmly advocating against even considering an action step that might protect the child because it might not be good for Cora. That is actively undermine the child’s interest in favor of the parent’s and we should not be acting like it’s fine and dandy. If a child is danger, someone needs to act, and a colleague having a conversation with the adult in question is highly unlikely to be the only puzzle piece needed. I’m horrified by so many of you here.

              1. Anonomouse*

                I think most of the commenters not advocating for calling CPS are looking at it from the perspective of (in many parts of the US) CPS has been shown to disproportionately take children from poor/non white parents and put them into a foster care situation that is overwhelmed/not well monitored/ potentially more hazardous than the described situation. I don’t think anyone is saying that this was OK but instead that involving CPS no matter the intent, may not help

              2. ThursdaysGeek*

                The child is not currently in danger. That’s the point. The idea is how to make sure this never happens again, but at this point, what is past is past, and the child survived. It’s horrifying thinking about what could happen – we all accept that! But it didn’t, so at this point, helping the parent is also helping the child. Ripping the child away at this point is NOT going to make things better, unless Cora is an unfit parent. It’s not clear whether she is unfit or stressed, sleep-deprived, and trying to figure out options and made a horrible choice that worked out this time.

                The fact that the others were gossiping instead of telling that they’d helped watch the baby in the office indicates that bringing the baby inside wasn’t an option either. It’s hard to make good decisions when homelessness can be staring you in the face. So the question was how to help her make better decisions so this never happens again.

                1. Avocadon’t*

                  If the child is currently under the care of someone who would knowingly leave them in a car for hours and surrounded by other adults who won’t take actions, then the child is in danger.

                2. firestarter11*

                  The fact that an adult woman thought it was okay to leave a child in the car for 4 hours is absolutely mind-blowing to me…. Granted, I don’t know her. Maybe it’s true that all she needs is someone to educate her on the dangers of leaving a child in the car. But I would be terrified that she would just hide the fact that her kid is in the car going forward, if she already showed such astounding lack of judgment.

                  I’m glad I’m not in LW’s position, but I would call CPS. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if a baby died over my inaction.

            2. EmRo*

              It feels like whack-a-mole to say this, but yet again one phone to CPS is not synonymous with foster care. There is a process to the remove the child and it is an absolute last resort. You would be amazed at the situations children are NOT placed in foster care.

              1. Wintermute*

                I wasn’t going to weigh in on this but… I had to agree with you.

                CPS fails far more often to remove children from very dangerous homes because they are set up to view it as a last resort than they remove children from ‘safe’ homes. It takes a LOT to get a removal order, I’ve seen children left in literal crack houses because there was food in the kitchen and the utilities were on and sure, there were drugs but they were out of reach of the child and sure, there were sketchy people coming and going at all hours but that isn’t enough.

                That is far more typical than a removal.

                Also important to keep in mind is that accepting what parents who have children remove tell other people and tell the media about the situation is believing a very unreliable narrator. Every parent who has a child removed spins it as a horror story of out-of-control government, but CPS often can’t tell their side of the story because of the parent’s privacy or it’s an ongoing investigation. It’s the same as believing someone when they tell you how they were fired “for no reason”, that’s probably not true.

          3. Accounting Gal*

            I agree 100%, I am absolutely horrified by the majority of responses to this post. This could have EASILY ended with this child dying, and at the very least implies she is comfortable with a shocking level of neglect and endangerment. I have an infant child and this chilled me to think of all these people that knew that baby was in the car and did nothing. The compassion here needs to be for the defenseless baby who is being neglected and put in immediate physical danger over that of a mother who has choices (none may be good, but they are still choices). Like YIKES.

            1. Accounting Gal*

              Also to add: I volunteered as a Guardian ad Litem for years so am very familiar with DHHS and the foster care system, and still this does not change the fact that this needs to be reported ASAP.

          4. Cold comfort*

            Don’t worry. If Cora had been asking to take an extra break to mind her baby, or for leave to find a babysitter, the commentariat would be shrieking in unison about how parents get the royal treatment at work about everything.

            2. Big Bank*

              That is unkind. Childless workers ask for the same flexibility that parents get to handle their also very legitimate emergencies, not to eliminate the grace that parents get.

              1. childless not heartless*

                Thank you for saying this… I have never seen a comment here advocating fewer benefits for parents, ever, and only people wanting them for themselves when they are asking to care for elderly parents, pets, etc.

                I have canceled my own doctors appointments so that people can take their kids to the doctor instead…. I’m just asking to be treated kindly the one time I have to take my cat to the emergency vet (it was treated like an imposition).

              2. Former Young Lady*

                This, thanks. Non-parents are not ticking time bombs of bitter jealousy. We’re just working our butts off, like everybody else.

          5. EmRo*

            I think the commenters are failing to understand the severity of what Cora did not only that it placed her baby in danger but that the line of thinking that led to this decision (and did not even involve asking her boss if there was a solution to make up hours or just this once bring the baby inside the office) may very well indicate a much more serious issue with her parenting and with the baby’s safety. Commenters are assuming this was just a one time desperate decision and since it ended up ok this time it’s just a matter of helping her find babysitters for next time. Hopefully that IS true. But OP is in no way trained to determine that nor offer any further type of support if necessary. The impaired decision making that led to this decision may very well be a danger to the baby. People have horror stories of CPS and foster care, particularly amongst non white families. I do not want to discount those stories in any way. However, my experience is the opposite, situations CPS failed to act that ended in tragedy, or the child(ren) were raised in neglect and abuse. I also know first hand of many situations where CPS was never involved and children experienced abuse. There are no easy answers when it comes these situations. But what happened here was NOT no harm, no foul, let’s move on. It was child endangerment. Full stop. Child endangerment should be reported. No excuses. The endangerment has to outweigh the other factors. That is why certain commenters like myself, and Avocadon’t are so astounded by so many of the other commenter’s reactions. It is not from a desire to punish or judge Cora. It is not about a lack of empathy for what may have led to Cora’s actions. It is not about not wanting to help Cora. It absolutely is about the baby’s safety and well being and prioritizing that above all other factors.

            3. firestarter11*

              Yes, you articulated what I was trying to say! This showed an astounding lack of judgement. It’s not like she had called OP to switch shifts, tried to bring the baby inside, called her manager to ask off or ask permission to bring the baby, or done any number of reasonable things.

              The fact that she thought this was fine makes me fear that she would just hide the fact that her baby is in the car next time, making the situation even more dangerous.

    2. Nursey Nurse*

      I agree. OP is presumably not a social worker, and she’s not equipped to handle all of the issues involved here. I understand that the child protection system isn’t perfect by any stretch, and that in some cases it does make situations worse. However, I find it really alarming that Cora was a) willing to leave her infant in a car for four hours and b) so unconcerned about doing so that she openly told her coworkers about it. This suggests to me that this might not have been a one-time lapse in judgment but rather a genuine lack of recognition of the potentially fatal consequences of her behavior. Cora’s family needs a risk assessment and referral to services, and I think that would best be done by a professional rather than a well-meaning but untrained coworker.

      2. Widget*

        “so unconcerned about doing so that she openly told her coworkers about it”

        This is presuming a state of mind without any evidence to support it. It could just as easily be the opposite: Cora telling her coworkers that her baby is in the car so that they’ll understand why she may need to quickly step away from the desk and run out to her car.

        1. ThursdaysGeek*

          And perhaps hoping they’d suggest bringing the child in. But they didn’t. So that wasn’t an option either.

    3. Cambridge Comma*

      I suspect many of the comments are from people who don’t know in detail what a four month old baby needs to be safe.

      1. Nursey Nurse*

        They also don’t seem to understand that CPS isn’t generally going to yank a baby out of their home due to one incident like this. I’m sure the people advising the OP not to call CPS mean well, but I don’t think they understand what actually happens in a CPS case.

        1. Mid*

          What actually happens in a CPS case varies wildly based on jurisdiction, race, class, and a lot of other factors.

          1. Anon for this*

            I’m frankly amazed that anyone here thinks that calling CPS would help. I work in a job where you have frequently to work with our version of CPS (European country), and in the many cases where the parents were outright dangerous I’ve never seen them do anything besides “go visit the family once a month”. They’ve send children back to theit parents with the whole pediatric hospital begging them to not give the children to those parents. 6 weeks later, one of the children is dying in the same hospital due to blunt force by the father. They’ve sent children back to the parents with documented violence (parents using a heavy metal object to beat up the children). It’s within their paperwork. It’s documented by a doctor. Child sent back. They remove one child after a documented, “the police comes and intervenes” case of violence. The four other younger children (also daughters, in the case of that kind of violence sadly relevant) are still with the same parents.

            If this was a case of an intentionally dangerous and violent parent, the CPS would likely do no good at all (and later be shocked that the child is dead). Sorry I might be a bit bitter but there’s a reason for it. And yes I’ll call them if I need to (hoping they do their job this time) but “I’ve called CPS, now the danger is banned” is… not how it works.

            1. Anon for this*

              That doesn’t mean that Cora needs the baby removed or that the baby needs to be removed from her! Cora needs a better paying job with more human coworkers and managers and friends etc who are able to care for the baby if she needs help. And a less stressful life so the next time she will be able to think “wait, no, that’s completely unsafe, I won’t leave my baby in a car”

            2. Irish Teacher*

              I think that the situation you describe probably WOULD help in Cora’s case though, since if they were visiting the family once a month, she could ask their advice about services available if she is in such a situation again, availability of low cost childcare, etc. I don’t think this is similar to the cases you describe because it is likely that what Cora needs is advice and possibly financial support rather than having her child taken away from her.

              The ideal result here would be for CPS to call, ask her about what happened and possibly tell her “we can arrange for your baby to get a free/subsidised childcare place. Fill in these forms” or “you are eligible for x payment to help cover childcare. Fill in this form.”

              The situations you are talking about are appalling and it sounds like they were really badly handled, but this one sounds like a much easier “fix” for social services than those.

        2. Bagpuss*

          I wouldn’t assume that telling her coworkers means she was unconcerned. I would have thought it’s more likely she was worried and distracted and told them for that reason, and perhaps if she was taking more/ longer breaks in order to check on the baby.
          Of course it wasn’t a safe thing to do but I don’t think you can assume that she was blasé about it

        3. mom of 2*

          A lot of things can happen once CPS is involved. I’ve seen CPS do lots of things they are not “supposed” to do. Never to families with money though, isn’t that interesting.

          1. Fuzzyfuzz*

            Upper middle class friends of mine had to go through multiple hoops with CPS when a medical professional erroneously reported a skin condition their child had as being an STD (it was not even close). It happens.

          2. KoiFeeder*

            Someone in one of my autism advocacy groups has discussed their school calling CPS and basically accusing her father of incest in retaliation for the father expecting them to actually honor her IEP. Why does she know that? Because CPS talked to her dad and told him that. Including that someone from the school reported it.

            Fortunately, this was a case where nothing was going on and the worker was basically warning her father that the school was not on his side. And honestly, this was probably not the first time the school had pulled a move like this. But if something really had been wrong? Things could have gone very, very badly.

        4. Nursey Nurse*

          Yes, I’m aware that risks vary, and that there are issues with the child protection system. But I think the small possibility of the child being removed from their home following a single report of neglect (and it is a small possibility, no matter how many anecdotes people have heard from their cousins or seen on the news) is outweighed by the very real possibility that Cora might do something like this again, and that the outcome for her baby might not be so good next time.

          I understand that people will disagree with me, and that’s fine. But I didn’t want the comments section to turn into one loud scream of “Never CPS!” We don’t know the situation here, and it’s possible that a call to CPS might be in the best interests of this baby. Frankly, I think all the advice that OP is getting to give Cora a stern lecture and offer to babysit sometimes is both naive and dangerous.

          I’m going to leave this here now.

          1. yala*

            You really think it’s a small possibility that they’d remove a child from a home in this instance, especially if the mother in question is in a situation where this was her best option? (implying poor, limited resources, etc)

            2. firestarter11*

              I’ve witnessed a child coming to school with a black eye after being beaten in the head with a baseball bat. She was not removed from the home. Her parents who beat her with the baseball bat were not white or wealthy.

              I know it depends on where you are, but in my experience, children are not easily removed from abusive or neglectful homes.

        5. Nursey Nurse*

          Actually, because data is important, I looked this up. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services publishes a child maltreatment report. The report includes statistics related to child protection reports of harm and their dispositions. According to the 2020 report, there were 3,925,000 reports made to CPS regarding 7,065,000 children. Of those 7 million kids, 173,079 were put into foster care.

          This means that .02% of children who were the subject of reports of harm were put into foster care. So is there a risk? Yes. Is it a small risk? Also yes.

          1. Lilo*

            I worked in the family court system and I’ve seen really bad cases where the kids weren’t removed.

            You can’t leave children in a potential harm situation because “what if they get removed”. Kids die that way.

            1. AcademiaNut*

              Whatever its flaws, CPS is who you need to call if a child is being neglected or abused, and a baby being left for hours in a carseat in a car (in summer!) is neglect, regardless of the motivations or situation of the mother. This is a situation where things can go bad really fast, and if they go bad, a kid is dead.

              1. Allonge*

                CPS or 911 is who OP should have called if they witnessed this in person (likely after they talked to Cora who refused to do anything in the moment, because otherwise at least 911 is not needed).

                The immediate danger is now not there; so OP can at least consider some alternatives, e.g. talking to Cora to make sure she knows this is a bad idea and why, their manager or, I assume, calling CPS for advice without naming names first? I don’t know if that is a thing but it sounds like it should be. The point is that all these can be done parallel to each other.

          2. Irish Teacher*

            Yeah, I’m not American so don’t know anything about child services there, but I do think that advice online often seems to assume “reporting to child services” = “telling child services to remove the child there and then and they have no other choice other than to do so.” I cannot imagine that being the case in many places, given that keeping children in foster care is expensive. A lot of people don’t even seem to be aware that child services have options beyond “place the child in foster care” and “ignore the referral.”

            Again, I don’t know enough about services where the LW lives, to know whether phoning child services is likely to get her support in finding free or cheap childcare or whether it is going to be more adversarial. And I definitely defer to Alison who has experience with child services, when I don’t.

            But it is a pattern I see, sometimes for pretty minor things or things that probably have an innocent explanation but should possibly be investigated in case, an assumption that calling = children automatically end up in foster care.

          4. Curious*

            Umm, while I agree that data is important, the numbers that you cite yield 2.4% put into foster care.

            On the other hand, if Cora’s situation is so desperate that she truly has no choice but to leave a 4 month old in a car, then, regardless of the societal failings that may have caused that situation, maybe that is what needs to happen. I don’t see OP successfully acting as Cora’s savior.

            1. Nursey Nurse*

              You are 100% correct, I made a math error! I’d edit my post, but that’s not an option.

          5. JJ*

            Social worker here. While the overall statistics are low for children being removed, the child in question is an infant. In the case of a 4 month old, CPS will react much faster and more strongly compared to a call concerning a 10 year old, who can independently unbuckle a seat belt and open car doors. Infant being taken away from mom in this case is much more likely, and I’ve seen it happen.

            Speaking of kids in cars–also consider child safety locks! Even older kids can get stuck in cars when they can’t open the doors from inside. Teach kids to climb up front and open the front door or honk the horn. Don’t leave them in the car to begin with, preferably, but there are all too many heartbreaking stories of unintended consequences.

            Apologies for long comment–I see many families involved with CPS in some form, and it is such a crapshoot whether the worker you get is helpful or not. Everyone commenting here agrees that baby and mom need help. Reporting to CPS is not the end all be all to helping this family, and not reporting is not the same as doing nothing. Actual, helpful resources will address the core needs of the family, not penalize or place further burden on mom for decisions borne from desperation and limited options.

        6. Ann*

          Really? A friend grew up in foster care, and her baby was taken over much less than that. She came under tremendous pressure to give him up for adoption. She could not get him back for two months – a nursing infant, mind you. Her crime was leaving her foster home to live with extended family. That’s all. This was considered “unsafe” and they knew she had no money for lawyers to prove that this is nonsense. All she could do was keep showing up to appointments and hoping for the best. You’re probably going to say that of course there had to be a bigger reason, maybe she was an addict, maybe someone else in the family had a criminal record? Nope. She got her baby back eventually, after CPS could not substantiate what risk she’s supposedly subjecting him to. But first they put her through that horror.

          1. EmRo*

            Maybe living with her extended family WAS dangerous in that situation though. After all, there is a reason she was placed in foster care instead of with extended family in the first place. CPS may be privy to what was happening in the extended family that wasn’t common knowledge.

            1. Ann*

              No. These were not the same people that caused her to end up in foster care. But if course, here it is – the entirely unsurprising “she probably did deserve it” comment.

              1. EmRo*

                I think there has been a misunderstanding here. I get that the extended family is not the original cause of the issue, but I am asking why she was not placed with the extended family and instead placed in foster care. I have no idea what you mean by I think she deserves it.

        7. Accounting Gal*

          Agreed! Worked within the foster care system for years and generally it takes a HIGH level of abuse or neglect to remove a child from the home, I think many of these commenters would be shocked. I worked with parents who literally tried to kill their children, left them with sexual predators, etc. and the children were still not removed. It is a last resort and even then the primary goal is always reunification with the parent AFTER the parent is provided with state funded resources for learning how to be a better parent/finding legal gainful employment/etc.

    4. Cheezmouser*

      I understand all of this as a mom of two small children, but I also can’t help think that this isn’t out of ignorance or malice but rather desperation. If I was hanging on by my fingernails and my options were a) leave child in car where I could see them while I work, b) bring child into office with me and risk getting fired, or c) take the day off and lose the money I desperately need for food or housing, then option A can seem like the least bad option. It’s no secret that many positions don’t pay a living wage, childcare is expensive and not always available, and not everyone has PTO. I’m pretty sure no parent WANTS to leave their child in a car for hours. But what else are you supposed to do if you have no childcare but need to work?

      1. Cheezmouser*

        My point is, instead of condemning Cora for her choice, we need to offer real solutions

        1. Nursey Nurse*

          I’m not condemning Cora for her choice. The choice has been made and the situation is in the past. I am saying that based on this choice Cora obviously needs help keeping her baby safe, and that a stern talking-to from OP and the phone number for a local daycare aren’t adequate solutions.

          1. Lilo*

            The problem is you can’t be looking at long term solution when you’re in the middle of an immediate danger situations. When someone’s hanging off a cliff by their fingernails, the immediate response can’t be “we need to install a fence there”. Installing a fence might be a good idea, by you have to get the person dangling off the cliff out of danger first.

            It is in no way exaggerating to say this is an immediate danger situation. If this happens again, the office needs to understand that it can’t continue for a second longer. Helping Cora long term is important but in the moment you can’t let the dangerous situation just play out. You have to call 911.

            1. Nursey Nurse*

              I agree, but the question to Alison wasn’t what to do in the moment (OP was pretty clear she’d intervene) but what to do now.

              1. Lilo*

                Telling the staff they need to call 911 in the future is a start. If this situation plays out again, for Cora or anyone else, someone has to know they need to act in the moment.

                1. AAA*

                  If you make this the workplace policy, isn’t Cora just going to leave the baby somewhere that she can’t even see it next time and not tell anyone?

                2. AAA*

                  In the short-term, though, seems like the compassionate thing that OP could actually do is advocate, with her coworkers, for Cora to be allowed to bring the baby inside for her shift if it’s a true emergency situation….or if there’s any WFM flexibility for these jobs at all, this is the time to figure that out.

      2. Mid*

        This. If the LW wants to help Cora, they should advocate for childcare stipends for all employees with dependents, offer to cover for Cora’s shifts if they’re available, make sure their employer is offering generous PTO and flexibility for parents who are faced with the childcare crisis (because it is absolutely a crisis, there literally isn’t enough childcare available and people are desperate and stuck in terrible lose-lose situations that are completely out of their control), advocate for her employer to allow children to be in the office when there are no other options, volunteer to babysit, research childcare options in their area that could support Cora, or any of the other 175 options that don’t attack Cora and her family and potentially cost her her livelihood.

        1. Anon for this*

          Helping Cora is a nice sentiment, but the priority here is ensuring the safety of the child, and none of your suggestions realistically addresses that.

          1. Despachito*

            I disagree – helping Cora will definitely ensure the safety of the child, because she would no longer have to leave it in her car.

            If Cora is a moderately decent person and did it out of desperation, what point would there be to get her in even more trouble by reporting her to childcare services (which, as Alison suggested, may cause her problems instead of being helpful)?

            I think the humane thing would be to offer some help to Cora (after discussing it with the manager). Is there a spare room where Cora could put her child in, and monitor it? It is not ideal but still better than the car. Could the coworkers collect some money for Cora to pay childcare if her problem is money?

            1. NewJobGuy*

              These are solutions for the next Cora. The baby could literally die tomorrow. And, physical harm aside, this is cruel to the child.

              1. Nameless in Customer Service*

                No one’s arguing in favor of leaving the baby in the car. *shudders* “Helping Cora” is not the same as excusing/approving of leaving the baby in the car. However, helping Cora may help prevent her from doing something so dangerous and desperate ever again, and involving CPS may actually not be helpful, depending on many factors including demographics and luck. It’s more complicated than “punish Cora, rescue the baby.”

          3. mom of 2*

            Helping Cora is helping the baby. Removal can cause lifelong trauma. People shouldn’t end up with CPS cases because they can’t find child care or afford to lose their jobs.

          4. Allonge*

            ?

            Why does offering to babysit or finding out if the employer could offer a room to put the child in not ensure the safety of the child?

          5. bamcheeks*

            You cannot treat the safety and wellbeing of a baby as something separate from the safety, wellbeing and security of their caregiver. That attitude is exactly why society *cannot* guarantee the safety and wellbeing of babies.

            1. yala*

              For real tho. This feels kinda like how we get the whole “domestic supply of infants” mindset.

          6. hbc*

            So…what is your suggestion for ensuring the safety of the child? Dozens of comments are here saying that CPS won’t remove the child, and it’s not like knowing they’ll show up at her house next month will make a cheap babysitter magically appear next week when her usual caregiver cancels.

            “Tell the authorities” is usually an option that makes us feel better but often doesn’t survive any scrutiny regarding outcomes.

            1. yala*

              For real. If CPS is called, I’m not sure what they would do to HELP this situation, especially after the fact?

              Heck, why even call 911 or CPS in the situation itself if Cora is right there and you could just tell her “go get the kid now, and we’ll figure something out, but get that kid out of the car NOW.”

              1. bamcheeks*

                I mean, what they should be able to do is make an assessment — why did Cora make this decision, what resources were available to her, is she aware of them all, is there more stuff they can hook her up to now they know she’s struggling, etc etc. Whether or not they can and will do those things depends on tons of stuff like the quality of the local services, the levels of funding and how stretched they are, plus all of Cora’s demographic information and how she presents on any given day. But there are tons of things CPS *should* be able to do in this situation that aren’t simply separating her from her mother.

                1. Ann*

                  And there’s no guarantee that they *will* do something constructive, because yes, quality of local services can be pretty horrifying.

          7. Mid*

            They absolutely do address that, because they create an environment where someone isn’t forced into dangerous situations out of desperation. And Cora is likely scared to speak up, because she probably can’t risk losing her job.

        2. Beebee*

          But LW may not have the power or ability to do any of this. And these things would take time to achieve which may be too late to help Cora and her kid

          1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

            Getting approval for Cora (or any other employees) to bring a baby into the office during a childcare emergency would take less time than a CPS investigation, if their boss is even a little bit reasonable.

            1. Temperance*

              OP is a receptionist. Do you really think that a receptionist has the political capital and pull to make massive, systemic changes like that?

              1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

                It’s really not a massive systemic change to say “yeah, your kid can stay in here as long as they’re not disturbing things”! In a small office (medical, dental, car repair, real estate, etc) that’s not going to be an unreasonable ask. And even in a large office with elaborate corporate bureaucracy, like the place I’m working now, it probably wouldn’t have to go past her grandboss for approval.

          2. Mid*

            True, but she can work with a group of her coworkers and advocate for everyone, as opposed to expecting the person that is struggling to make things work risk their position to ask for these changes. If OP really wants to help Cora and cares about children, then they can advocate for changes that help everyone. Because I highly doubt that Cora is the only one in the office struggling with childcare issues.

        3. Nikkole*

          LW is a receptionist in an office. they would not have any control over childcare stipends or PTO or anything else. I’m guessing she is likely in the same kind of position as Cora.

          At some point CORA needs to bear some responsibility. If LW can advocate for these policies, why can’t Cora? if LW can research childcare options, can’t Cora do the same?

          LW is not the one that left a baby in the car. it’s not up to her to work these things out for Cora. Yes, she should have told Cora to take the baby out of the car and bring them inside but to assume it’s her job to manage Cora’s life is ridiculous.

          1. Allonge*

            LW was the one who wrote in for advice / ideas on what they could do though. Obviously they cannot implement everything that is suggested here, but we are talking to them, not Cora here.

          2. bamcheeks*

            It is Good to advocate for things you don’t personally need yourself. You’re at less risk that in itself is a power they don’t have.

          3. Unaccountably*

            It is the work of *everyone* in a society to make sure children are safe and those in need have resources. Everyone.

            If you won’t do that work for other people, don’t complain when no one is willing to do it for you.

        4. Here we go again*

          Cora seems really like a young mom and more afraid of the consequences of loosing her job than the consequences of loosing her baby. I really empathize with her. Someone needs to tell her “there is not one single job on the planet worth putting your baby in danger. Jobs come and go your child is forever and more important. Sometimes it’s better to take the write up or loose the job for calling out.”

          1. Ann*

            What will happen to her and her baby if she does lose her job? At the moment, NYC has 100,000 homeless children. If you lose your job and you have no safety net (and it looks like Cora doesn’t), no one will spend that much effort helping you out. The best you can hope for is a spot at a homeless shelter, if your town has one.

            1. Here we go again*

              Anything is better than being dead. Everyone who worked there should’ve told her to bring the baby inside right now! It’s the humane thing to do.

    5. Julia*

      Maybe the advice could be combined. If LW talks to Cora and Cora immediately dissolves in tears of guilt and makes an actionable, credible plan to ensure this will never happen again, perhaps CPS doesn’t need to be called. If any other possible outcome happens, CPS.

      It’s just that… CPS kind of sucks. Those workers are trying their best and they’re heroes for going into that line of work but it is incredibly under-resourced and Alison’s right that there are systemic problems around race and class. At the same time, if this happened again and I had not gone to CPS I would find it hard to forgive myself.

    6. JSPA*

      I read it as, she sat a sidewalk-and-desk distance away from the baby, looking directly at the baby, through a giant window. There are cities where this is very possible. It’s still a dangerous choice (because of heat, car fumes etc)… but if she had been 20 feet away from the baby at home, something going wrong would likely have gone un-noticed for as long or longer. We don’t send in CPS if we find out that someone rich took a long bath 4 rooms away from where their baby was sleeping in a car seat. (Which, to be clear, is also a risk.)

      1. Mid*

        Exactly. I’m very well versed in infant safety, and while this wasn’t the most safe option, it’s not the most dangerous thing people likely do with their infants on any given day.

        1. Anon for this*

          The temperature and carbon monoxide factors alone absolutely make this situation potentially deadly for an infant.

          1. pancakes*

            Carbon monoxide is hugely dangerous when there’s a leak. Let’s back up a moment and discuss when or where it was a factor here? The fact that it theoretically may have been does not mean the baby is presently in danger of carbon monoxide exposure.

          2. Mid*

            And there’s a risk of carbon monoxide at home, as well as temperature issues. My apartment building doesn’t have AC and has south facing windows, it can easily get over 100*F in my apartment. I’ve lived in buildings that didn’t have carbon monoxide alarms (which is illegal, but good luck getting a slumlord to enforce that.) Places can have gas leaks. Kids can fall off a couch. SIDS is a thing too. There are so many risks and dangers every day, and again, no one is saying that people should leave their children in a car, but given all the other possibilities, we need to stop acting like this was the same as dropping the car seat in the middle of the freeway and hoping for the best. Cora made the best decision out of numerous terrible options, and the child is okay. What do you suggest is a better solution here?

        2. JSPA*

          I’d say it is indeed more dangerous by some factor (exact details depend on what her ability was, to monitor the a/c, whether the car has holes that allow fumes in, what sort of lock / fob etc) than what most people do in a day, or a week. But less dangerous than leaving a baby in a non-a/c car out of sight, to nip in to the store for milk and eggs. If I understand her level of “eyes on” correctly, this was an inadequately supervised baby, not an unsupervised baby.

          If the system in the state asks questions and provides training and support, it’s the right answer. If it’s a state with a broken system, where kids get yanked for 3 or 6 months pending any support or investigation, and also a state that has problems with abuse in care… you have to be looking at present harm or a pattern of neglect. Now, thus could be part of a pattern of neglect. But ending up fired and homeless? That’s also a risk to the baby.

          1. Cambridge Comma*

            It’s not safe for the baby to be in a car seat that long, even if the car seat were inside an air conditioned building. I don’t know how Cora would be able to distinguish between positional asphyxiation and sleep without being in the car.

            1. C*

              Yeah, positional asphyxiation really does look exactly like sleep. It’s why they tell you to never leave a sleeping baby in a carseat, swing, or any other similar device. Leaving a baby in a swing while you take a bath would be just as dangerous. Just having a baby’s head droop forward for a few minutes will do it.

              Plus the air conditioning can break even if the car’s still running, and she wouldn’t be able to see that from her desk, either. Car running =/= air working properly.

              1. bamcheeks*

                At four months I’d only just grown out of having complete panics that the baby wasn’t breathing and stopping the car to check.

              2. hbc*

                Maybe that advice is given out, but almost everyone I know had those removable bassinet-style car seats that strapped into strollers so you didn’t have to disturb the sleeping kid. I would have been looked at like a crazy person if I insisted that they remove their child or check on breathing every five minutes.

              3. doreen*

                And positional asphyxiation has become such a well-known event * that people I know with babies don’t even let them sleep in the car while driving unless there is an adult actually in the back seat. Best case scenario is that Cora is unaware of a risk that she really should know about.

                * I don’t remember hearing about it when my kids were infants 30+ years ago, but I’ve heard plenty in the past few years.

                1. Unaccountably*

                  As someone who has sat in traffic with an infant in the car, I’m gonna have to say that the people you know are, well, fudging a little bit. When babies are exhausted, they cry. When they’re exhausted and pissed off, as most of us are when woken out of a sound sleep for no reason, they scream. Loudly.

                  Don’t get me wrong, I too was going to do All The Things Right before I had kids because I knew absolutely everything about raising them and what to do in every situation. Then I had them and life became a much more complicated place, and then I had to do a lot of nodding and smiling when people with no kids talked about not letting your child sleep on the commute home and checking their breathing every five minutes.

                2. Doreen*

                  They aren’t fudging , actually. They schedule things so that the kid will be awake during the commute and short drives or both parents are in the car for longer trips, one driving and the other in the backseat. I’m not sure I would do it, but my daughter and my nieces and nephew do.

                3. JSPA*

                  You’re talking about two parent families with support networks; the question posits a single mother without family in the area, and possibly no support network. So it’s not, “what’s the best one could theoretically do,” but “what’s within reasonable bounds, beyond which the state must step in?”

                  We all agree this wasn’t a good solution. The question is whether OP must directly point child protective services at the situation, as the best, most effective way to make sure the kid is safer, rather than less safe.

                  And the answer is still, “it really depends, and it depends in ways that will likely become clear when the boss talks to the employee mom.”

            2. JSPA*

              OK, I’ve never driven 6 hours with a baby, but I’ve certainly driven 6 hours at a stretch, and have (equally) known babies to sleep for 6 hours.

              When people drive 6 hours with a sleeping baby, are they supposed to stop the car to check? Wake the baby up? Or what? Listening for baby breathing seems unlikely to be effective, if there’s any road noise.

        3. Lilo*

          It actually probably is.

          I have to tell you if I saw a baby left in a car by itself, I’m going to immediately call 911. A car can heat up to deadly temperatures within minutes on a sunny 70 degree day. With the 100+ degree weather?

          I think it needs to be clear that employees call 911 for any baby left in a car.

          A baby left in a car is absolutely an immediate emergency situation and should be treated as such. Does it sucks for Cora? Sure. But the immediate danger to the baby is the emergency situation that has to be resolved asap. You can’t let a potentially deadly situation just play out because of some vague fear of CPS. That’s how kids die.

            1. CheesePlease*

              wow you’re making a lot of assumptions about Cora. I don’t think it’s charitable to discuss the reliability of her car or other aspects of her life.

              1. pancakes*

                Good opportunity to inject unnecessary drama / a hinge to catastrophize on, though. Maybe she was sipping from a bottle of gin as well? (Yes I am being sarcastic!)

          2. bamcheeks*

            Actually yes, this is something else that LW could speak to her manage about. It’s pretty normal for frontline reception staff to have some kind of first-aid, first line-response, how-to-escalate Situations training. It would be worth management making sure all staff are aware that a baby (or a pet, but especially a baby!) left in a car is ABSOLUTELY a situation that needs to resolved immediately or escalated. Alongside figuring why Cora made that decision and what support she needs from her employer, emphasising just how serious that situation was and that everyone has a responsibility to AC t immediately is really important. Cora needs to hear that too.

          3. un-pleased*

            Seriously. I would also consider that a bystander might see the baby there and break a window to get the baby out because they just see a baby left alone in a parked car, engine running or no. It doesn’t matter whether desperation or any other reason is why the baby is in the car if the baby comes to harm.

            (It’s also weird to me that people buy this is the first and only time she has done this. Perhaps it really was the first time she did it at work but I’d be curious whether she also does it other places.)

            1. Mid*

              I wouldn’t assume she did it in other places, given that you can bring a baby in pretty much everywhere except some workplaces. I’ve seen babies at bars, medical offices, tattoo shops, and literally everywhere else that people spend time, because they don’t risk being fired for bringing their child inside during their shift.

        4. Temperance*

          Babies aren’t supposed to be kept in a car seat for hours and hours. Positional asphyxia is a real thing.

      2. Snoozing not schmoozing*

        The chance of a car sideswiping your house vs. your car and hurting or killing your child makes it a huge difference. The chance of someone stealing your car vs. invading your house and taking the child makes a huge difference.

        1. Just Another Techie*

          The chances of baby dying from positional asphyxiation in an unattended baby rocker or swing are exactly the same as the risk of positional asphyxiation in a car though.

          1. Everything Bagel*

            Do people typically leave 4 month old babies in swings for 4 hours? Having your kid in a room in a swing where you can easily walk over and physically check on them and reposition them is different than looking through windows at the child sitting in a car seat.

      3. Nursey Nurse*

        I think this is a little disingenuous. If you’re 20 feet away from your baby at home, you can hear them if they cry or become distressed. You can check on them frequently. Depending on the layout of your home, they might even be in line of sight. The likelihood that Cora would have been able to clearly see her child from 20 feet away through two glass windows is very low unless she has X-ray vision, and the likelihood she would have been able to hear her distressed child over the sounds of her engine running and other ambient noise are even lower.

      4. bamcheeks*

        I’m sure this varies baby to baby, but being 20 feet away from a four-month old baby for four hours (when you are awake) and not going to them, touching them, checking them, etc would also be a fairly alarming, to be honest. I mean, yes, babies sleep a lot, and occasionally they sleep for a long time, but 2.5 hours would be a long nap for most 4mos and simply … not checking them or going within 20 feet of them for 4 hours would be pretty extraordinary in most homes, I think.

        1. Lilo*

          Just leaving an infant without checking their diaper that long can cause harm (a baby can rash up in minutes from some poops, diaper rash when bad can lead to open sores and infections). This is a pretty clear case of neglect.

        2. CheesePlease*

          I also think it’s unfair to assume Cora didn’t go and check on her baby. The OP wasn’t there for Cora’s shift, only overheard gossip afterwards. Perhaps Cora took a 15min bathroom break every hour to feed and change and hold her baby. Perhaps she had set up a baby monitor. Maybe coworkers covered for her during a 30 min lull in clients. Neglect would have been to leave the baby at her house alone until she got home from work. This is a very risky and dangerous choice, but not neglectful if she felt she had no other options.

          1. bamcheeks*

            I don’t think it’s “unfair” so much as that doesn’t make it safe? Whatever the gaps between checking up on the baby are– 20 minutes, 45 minutes, 60 minutes, the full two hours– they’re all quite long enough for a baby to overheat or asphyxiate in a carseat. This isn’t to assume the worst of Cora, it’s just there is no amount of anxiety or regular checking on the baby that makes this a safe situation.

            1. Mid*

              Right, but then those time periods are also long enough for something to happen at home if the parent is sleeping, showering, cooking, listening to music, doing laundry, etc.

              1. bamcheeks*

                I mean, this is super dependent on lots of things, but I never really did leave my kids for longer than 20 minutes in the house? Even now they’re 7 and 4 then 20 minutes is about the longest I’d leave them without checking on them if I couldn’t hear them playing. They were in the room whenever I was cooking, doing laundry etc.

              2. JustEm*

                When my baby was four months old showers were 2-3 minutes with the baby in a bassinet/pack n play in the bathroom with me or in adjoining room. She was never left alone for any significant length of time – really no time at all. Also a carseat is WAY more dangerous than the floor or bassinet due to risk of positional asphyxia, and a car can overheat and kill a baby in minutes if the AC cuts out – not true of a house or apartment.

          2. E*

            Honestly it would be safer to leave a baby in a crib at home alone than strapped in a carseat in a car alone for 4 hours. Still very bad!!! But you are WAY underplaying how dangerous this choice was.

            1. CheesePlease*

              I am a mother to a young infant. I am well aware of how dangerous hot cars can be, and understand the risks of asphyxiation. I’m just saying that the speculation by many in the comments section) that the baby was left alone, unfed, unchanged and unmonitored for all 4 hours is uncharitable to Cora as a mother. That being said, I don’t think anyone should ever do this!! I don’t think babies should be in a car alone for more than a few minutes (ex: unloading groceries at home). I just think we shouldn’t assume the worst from Cora, given that OP only overheard gossip about the situation and couldn’t confirm anything themselves.

            1. socks*

              It’s unfair because someone making a bad choice in a bad situation doesn’t make them a mustache-twirling villain.

              The situation was unsafe regardless of how often Cora checked on the baby, so it’s honestly really weird how much focus there’s been on the baby hypothetically having been ignored for four hours straight. It just comes off like people need to believe Cora is a cold and unfeeling monster because the alternative (a loving parent can be put in a situation where leaving their child in a car feels like the least bad option) is really, really sad.

              1. Nameless in Customer Service*

                It just comes off like people need to believe Cora is a cold and unfeeling monster because the alternative (a loving parent can be put in a situation where leaving their child in a car feels like the least bad option) is really, really sad.

                Well said. Also, that anyone with sympathy for her must also not care about babies, to judge by the “commenters here would be shocked by…” type comments.

                Babies are so advocatable-for, for good reason, but that doesn’t have to mean that anyone has to be a demon here.

                1. EmRo*

                  I think that 2 things can be true (or three or four). Cora is almost certainly not an unfeeling monster. She may be in a desperate situation. And she endangered her baby.

                2. socks*

                  @EmRo (ran out of nesting), I don’t think we actually disagree here? My point is that a lot of people seem to be saying (1) Cora endangered her baby and therefore (2) she MUST also have ignored the baby for four hours straight, even though (2) isn’t in the letter. The second part is the only thing I’m objecting to.

      5. Heat Wave*

        Most babies this age will be in the back seat and rear-facing. Realistically, how much of the baby is she going to see?

    7. doreen*

      I worked for CPS and I would definitely be reporting this. CPS is not perfect – but as a general rule they try to avoid foster care placement if for no other reason than the expense. And that means they have access to “preventive” services which can include childcare. There are many situations where I think people call CPS when they shouldn’t – but this isn’t a ten year old walking home from school.

      Cora does a poor job of assessing risks and the fact that she told her coworkers means that she believed the co-workers would be okay with it. She might not have been unconcerned exactly, but she either thought her coworkers would not call the police or CPS or it never even occurred to her that someone might call , which means on some level she thought this was acceptable . And that means it most likely wasn’t a one-time incident – it may not be something she plans to do again but she will consider it an option if she finds herself in the situation again. Or she actually might do it all the time – if she left the baby in the car while she works a four hour shift , maybe she leaves the baby home alone while she runs to the supermarket for an hour.

      1. Gyne*

        100% agree with this. It’s not just the initial decision but the way the decision was relayed to colleagues. I’m honestly alarmed no one else in the office, in the moment, didn’t tell Cora to GO GET THE BABY RIGHT NOW and bring her inside.

        Also, speaking from a medical person’s perspective, referring to CPS is not something done secretly behind someone’s back. You involve them in the process and tell them what you are concerned about, tell them you are going to call CPS and why. OP should have an in person talk with Cora about WTAF happened that day and if a call to CPS is in order (from the information in the letter I absolutely think it is), make the call with her there.

      1. yala*

        If she’s right there, why call 911 instead of just…telling her to take the child out?

      2. straws*

        I can’t believe none of her coworkers just told her to bring the baby inside. That would have stopped all of this. A baby’s life is definitely worth an ask for forgiveness rather than permission situation. Bring the baby in, loop in the boss, discuss options. Cora made a poor initial decision out of desperation, but any of her coworkers that knew could have put a stop to it (either via my method above or calling 911 or CPS). Instead they just let it happen and GOSSIPED about it after the fact?? That’s not really much better, and possibly worse from certain angles.

    9. Mockingjay*

      This should have been handled with two steps. First, make Cora bring the baby inside the office. Immediately. Talk to Cora, find out what’s going on, offer Cora the suggestions in Alison’s advice for immediate assistance. Then decide whether a call to CPS is warranted.

      Second, put in place long-term policies to assist parents and caregivers. Telework, flex schedule, extra paid days off, a stipend for emergency child sitter service…

      Note: I understand that OP was extraordinarily flustered, but don’t ever wait to call a manager, police, or CPS. Above all, get the baby to safety. Then deal with Cora and the authorities.

      1. Guin*

        It is impossible for a receptionist to telework. The nature of the job is to be on-site greeting people, handling mail, and answering the phone. Cora’s not a software engineer who can code at home.

      2. Books and Cooks*

        I completely agree re steps, but if I understand correctly, OP didn’t know about this until the situation had ended; the baby was no longer in the car. Doesn’t excuse the coworkers just letting this happen, but it does mean the OP wasn’t flustered and didn’t know what to do at the time so just went along with leaving the baby in the car. She’s found out about it now, after the fact, and is asking what she should do in the aftermath.

    11. HannahS*

      Adding my voice to the doctors, nurses, social workers, and paramedics saying that a report to CPS is warranted. I’m sorry OP. It sucks; it feels awful. The reality is, most calls to CPS are for people like Cora–good people who love their children, but are not able (for a variety of reasons) to make safe choices. You cannot solve the multifactorial issues around what led Cora to make a very dangerous choice for her infant. Nothing short of sweeping social change will do that. But CPS can protect the child while providing Cora with resources that you don’t have access to, to ensure that this child is safe.

      CPS is not perfect, but the likelihood of them sweeping in and apprehending her child is low. Calling CPS is not a referendum on Cora’s worth as a person, her intentions, or her love of her children. It expresses that right now, Cora isn’t able to provide safety to her infant. That’s the unfortunate reality.

    12. Parakeet*

      It seems worth noting that we don’t know when this letter was sent, and therefore we don’t know whether it was during the current heat wave. Doesn’t make it safe or okay if it was during some slightly cooler time, but I’ve seen a few people mention the current heat wave as a factor in their thinking when it may not have been a factor in the situation.

    13. River Song*

      I agree. One thing to realize is calling child protective services does not immediately equate child removal. In my state, the first step is *supportive* wrap around services to evaluate what is needed to support a family to keep a child in a home, since this state and many states’ prioritize reunification. However even if not, this was a hugely dangerous move that even (and especially) if out of desperation, rises to the threshold of professional involvement.

    14. Risha*

      I was looking for a comment like this. As an RN (and a mandated reporter), I really disagree with the advice. Many parents are single parents with no help and leaving your small baby in the car is inexcusable. I was a single mom for years with absolutely no help from the dad, no child support, nothing. And I still managed to not leave my baby in the car. If I saw that, I would have called CPS so fast. They don’t just take your kids away on the first call like so many people think. Removing children from the parents is a last resort usually.

      If this baby would have died, then everyone would have been saying why didn’t OP call CPS. I really can’t believe so many people (Allison included) care more for the mom than this poor baby. This baby who can’t tell you if he’s too hot or thirsty or uncomfortable sitting in the carseat for hours. It’s time we stop making excuses for poor parenting decisions and call out bad parenting. We can still help a single parent and not be ok with them leaving their baby in the car all day. Who cares if this woman’s life is blown up? Imagine how that poor baby felt all day. Millions of single parents all over don’t have any help and don’t leave their babies in a car.

      Honestly, I believe if it were a dog left in the car all day, there would have been much more anger at this coworker.

      OP, please call CPS. If this coworker is bold enough to leave her baby in the car at work, where all of you can see, imagine what she does when no one is looking. Let’s protect children instead of adults who make these crappy decicions.

  8. Whynotnow*

    #2 I’ve been the recipient of such advice and it turned out amazing for me (until the company lost its mind, but that happens). In my case, a coworker not in my department, recommended that I apply for some positions that were just coming open. Not only did I learn about the job earlier than I might have, but it gave me confidence through the application and interview process.

    1. Smithy*

      I will add that what is really good about this advice is that someone junior may have been the recipient of bad or irrelevant advice from friends/family (i.e. don’t ask for a promotion/new duties until X amount of time on a new job) or otherwise think such opportunities are not a possibility. And in smaller employers, knowing how best to seek advancement might just not be obvious for someone newer to the work world, and this is so valuable.

      I will also say, that on the flip side – I knew a new role was opening where I worked that I was interested in. When I asked about it, I did ask what level of seniority they envisioned it being and got the clear message that it was for someone far more senior than me (and given they hired someone with decades more experience – they lived up to that). While it was genuinely helpful advice in managing expectations around that position, the fact that it was never paired with any advice around how I might advance ultimately led me to the understanding that I had to leave for any growth.

      If this receptionist is under the belief that this position is the *only* role for her at this firm, then it will do more to crystalize the belief that she puts xyz time and then moves on. Having someone show how the job can become more can come from anywhere.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      It sounds like OP2 is envisioning the receptionist taking over some admin duties while maintaining the current reception role and job title. You bring up a good point, that maybe the receptionist could apply for the admin role, so (if she gets the job) she will have a new job title/duties/pay. Presumably, the company would then need to hire an external person to fill the receptionist role.

      I think applying to the admin position could be a good way to go, if it fits with the receptionist’s career plan. One thing OP2 should check before she mentions it as an option is if the company has any policies about applying for internal roles. I’ve worked at a few places where you have to work in the role you were hired for for a year or two before you’re eligible to apply for internal roles, and OP2’s company may have a similar policy.

    3. OP2*

      “it gave me confidence through the application and interview process”
      This is such a good point. Totally what I would hope for in this situation.

    4. Sandgroper*

      There’s a direct benefit for the company here too beyond wages for another person.

      They can then hire a junior receptionist, or part time one, that can cover for absences and gradually upskill into the rule for the future.

      It’s rare for a receptionist to stay a receptionist forever. But right now, while you reception isn’t busy, you can create a pathway out of reception into other clerical roles in the company, reducing training and upskilling costs. The long term benefits of this idea means you’ll have a natural flow of company tested and knowledgeable receptionist-general admin – specialist admin pathways who are reliable, and people who apply for the entry level role of receptionist might well not quit and leave after a year or two in boredom. This is very ‘normal’ in Australia, and probably much of the world!

  9. Always Happy*

    For LW #4… do what I did when I knew I was going to have a lapse in coverage… I placed a 90 day order with my mail order pharmacy. Also, received 3 months only billed for 2!

    1. rudster*

      I went on an FSA binge – meds, glasses, pharmacy supplies… It was the start of the year and at the exit interview my HR person basically told me that I had been credited with my entire annual FSA contribution upfront, and while officially she had to discourage me from spending more than I had put in for year to date, unofficially if I wanted to spend it all in the next few days there was nothing the company would or could do to stop me or claw it back.

      1. Constance Lloyd*

        Legally, you are entitled to use the full amount of your flex account on day 1 and leave on day 2 of the plan year! Your employer cannot request that money back or deduct it from your final paycheck. Alternately, if you leave money unused in your FSA, you just lose it. But be careful, a lot of things are only eligible with a doctor’s note (like massages and otc medications) and other things aren’t eligible at all (like electric toothbrushes, mouthwash, etc) and if you use it for ineligible items, they CAN demand that money back. (Note this is the general you, not rudster specifically!)

        1. Katiekins*

          Check your paperwork first—my FSA agreement stipulates that my employer can take the money out of my last paycheck pre-tax and if that amount isn’t enough, I must reimburse them for the remaining balance with after-tax dollars.

          1. HoundMom*

            That sounds odd. FSAs regs say that the employer must be at risk for loss of dollars if someone utilizes the funds before they are collected from the employee. On the flip side, funds not used by employees are forfeited back to employers.

            1. Katiekins*

              I’d like to learn more about this–can you cite your source for the FSA regs about the employer being at risk for lost dollars?

      2. OrdinaryJoe*

        Yep! That’s what I’d recommend, too. Stock up on needed drugs, have a check up, etc. My company does the same thing – no insurance for 60 days and many friends’ places have no insurance for the first few weeks at least … moving paperwork through and getting stuff approved, I guess. COBRA can always be picked up if there’s an issue within that 60 day window. Not great, not perfect, but I wouldn’t turn down a great job over this situation.

        1. Artemesia*

          I retired at 67 but my husband was only 64 and would not be eligible for medicare for a couple of months after my insurance ended – and my insurance was covering him as he had retired already. We went to Europe for 3 mos. I got travel insurance with good medical coverage AND got COBRA for him. When we did it, you didn’t have to pay the COBRA bill for 60 days and if you didn’t use the insurance during that period, you never had to pay the bill. And we didn’t.

          This was in place for us in case of some catastrophic medical situation which might cost tens or hundreds of thousands — a heart attack or stroke or whatever. It is not safe to go without insurance in the US for any period of time because the consequences of a very serious medical event can be financially catastrophic very quickly. We didn’t want to face bankruptcy at a time of our life when we were not going to be earning again.

    2. Cookie*

      But if LW #4 is on an infusion such as Humira, they may not be able to arrange that three months out, as it’s not like just ordering a lot of pills! I have a couple of friends who need similar infusions.

      If I were in this position, I’d ask New Company HR when benefits start. Also, LW #4 described their current benefits as having been “negotiated,” i.e. possibly the HMO doesn’t cover this treatment for everyone but their benefits office helped get it covered. So, start by asking to see the whole policy and determine whether it’s covered, just say “I want to compare it to my current coverage.” Maybe New Company Benefits are more comprehensive and it’s a non-issue. Determine the (potential) problem, then consider solutions.

    3. LW 4*

      OP here – my expensive medication is an infusion, administered every six weeks. I can’t get extra or give myself the IV needed.

      1. Artemesia*

        COBRA then is your only good option for the transition, but I can see how nervous making this is if there is any chance the new job might fall through.

    4. Anon-a-rama*

      This is great when it works. Unfortunately, some meds are restricted to a 30-day supply, at least by my insurer, and these tend to be the expensive ones.

  10. L'étrangere*

    OP4 do your best to find out abead of time how much your COBRA coverage would cost ahead of time. I’ve heard of horror stories where it was more than people’s unemployment, so you and/or the new company could have a nasty surprise. And sadly I’m sure I don’t have to tell you how much temporary insurance could cost you if they figure out you have something they don’t want to cover. So sorry you’re being put in that horrible position, wish you lived in a civilized country where health care is a given

    1. rudster*

      Temporary insurance is usually relatively cheap, but they absolutely will excluded anything even potentially pre-existing, and you’re kind of SOL if the new job falls through. Is COBRA still a thing with the ACA? Losing job-based coverage is qualifying life event to get an ACA plan even outside of open enrollment, and it seems hard to believe that an ACA plan would be more expensive than COBRA, though ACA plans have gone up so much they might be comparable these days. I suppose COBRA might at least spare you the need to change plans and doctors right away.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        COBRA is still a thing with the ACA. My understanding is when you leave a job, you have the option to continue coverage with COBRA or the option to buy a marketplace plan. COBRA is probably more expensive (on average) than a marketplace plan, but for some people it will be worth the extra cost to keep their same plan and doctors, especially if they only have to wait a month or two for the next job’s insurance to kick in.

        1. InsufficientlySubordinate*

          Well, there’s a little sneaky you can do with the COBRA sometimes. Read the directions carefully, but sometimes you have up to 3 months to elect it and if you do, you pay for the previous months. In other words, if something happens, you can pay for the two months prior etc to have continuous coverage, and be covered. If something doesn’t happen, then you didn’t pay for it. It’s kinda scary to do and you have to read carefully and keep track of dates. THis is probably more for catastrophic problems to be covered but I’ve done it when I couldn’t afford the COBRA but I definitely couldn’t afford paying for stuff if I got in a car wreck or some such while I waited for my new employer insurance to kick in.

          1. Jen MaHRtini*

            Came to say this, can attest that it’s a tenable solution. Second the advice to keep VERY careful track of dates.

          2. MCMonkeyBean*

            It’s not even sneaky, that is what I was specifically told I should do by HR–but that only works if you expect to hopefully not need insurance for a few months. OP knows for sure they need it to cover their expensive medication.

            1. straws*

              Yes – to both these points. I always recommend this to employees that are leaving, but if you already know you need treatment, it’s not going to matter.

          3. Artemesia*

            This is what we did to cover my husband’s gap in insurance between my retirement and his 65th birthday month which was two months after my insurance ended.

          4. Unaccountably*

            I did that. I was hospitalized the day before I started a new job, so no insurance yet. The hospital finance department told me I could pay for a month of COBRA, I did, and it was still a hefty expense but much less than the bill would have been.

    2. A Yellow Plastic Duck*

      On COBRA you have to pay the entire premium–what was your part and the employer’s part previously. This can easily add up to more than $1,000.00 a month (“one thousand dollars” in my best Dr. Evil voice).

      You can go to healthcare dot gov and price a plan, but it’s likely to be in the same range as COBRA (unless you are making a low wage, in which case it could be cheaper).

      As a professional (and I am assuming your are given the letter) I would hesitate to take a job from a company that was withholding health insurance coverage. I’m trying to think why they would do this, and none of the reasons are good.

      To me, this is a huge red flag.

      1. MCMonkeyBean*

        I do not know why but I think this is not even that uncommon–I briefly worked at a very large and well known company and their policy was basically that insurance kicks in on the first day of the month after you have worked there for a full month–which means if you start early in a month you haven’t worked a *full* month until after the *next* month so you essentially have no insurance for two months.

        My current company is much better, but they are themselves an insurance company so offering good insurance benefits seems very necessary lol. So I don’t have a sense of how common each policy is in general.

      2. Mockingjay*

        It’s very common; companies often have a probationary period with limited or no benefits.

        In terms of continuity of care, COBRA is probably the better choice (albeit the most expensive). If OP4 elects a different plan, she might have to change providers or it can be billed as new patient/service, with copays, a new yearly deductible to meet, etc.

        OP4, try negotiating for coverage upon hire. Or, ask about a slight increase in salary – what would be enough to offset COBRA costs.

      3. Curmudgeon in California*

        During the 2009 recession my Cobra bill was nearly $1400 for my spouse and I. Yes, during that the feds picked up some of the cost, but that was only for about 6 months. I had to cash in most of my RSU stock to pay for it. That stock went up over 10x during the next ten years. If I hadn’t had to pay the outrageous cobra, that stock would have later paid off my house. (Stock I sold for $125/share was $1300/share ten years later, and I had to sell approximately 150 shares.)

        Now that my spouse is on Medicare? My Cobra bill is under $500/month.

        In California the top level of unemployment of $450/week is not enough to pay my mortgage. Even Kentucky, Texas and Utah get more per week at maximum. Yet this is a high cost state.

  11. It's Me*

    #4 – not a licensed producer/broker/agent but works with health insurance. An employer selects the waiting period for new hires when they sign their contract with the insurer. They may be able to select multiple waiting periods based on the class of the employee. Once that contract is signed, the waiting period(s) they selected cannot be changed. I’m sorry, likely not what you wanted to hear on that point, but the other suggestions are still options.

    Personally, when my position was eliminated at my old company, I went on COBRA insurance. Yes, it was more $ but I wanted the coverage just in case something happened. I was then hired on a 6 month contract. The insurance options were awful so I kept the COBRA insurance. I was then hired on FT into a different role (now working directly for the health insurance company) and was able to join their insurance plan. Their waiting period was the 1st of the month after date of hire and purposely sped up my hire date (26th of the month instead of 8th of the following month) so I could then cancel the COBRA and not pay an extra month of it.

    1. PollyQ*

      It’s possible that LW could negotiate a sort of “signing bonus” that would cover the cost of COBRA for those 2 months.

    2. Giraffe Girl*

      As a mandated reporter who has worked in abuse/neglect prevention programs, I have to 100 percent agree with you (and not Allison on this.). If LW had been there at the beginning of Cora’s shift, it could have gone differently. She presumably would have told Cora to bring the baby inside. And if Cora did so, no need to call CPS. But that’s not how it happened. I know LW is concerned at the ramifications, but CPS is not going to remove the child from the home for one incident such as this. Instead, they will help the mom to identify resources and then check back in with her.

      1. JSPA*

        CPS is a hugely different beast from state to state / place to place. Be careful making absolute statements about what “they” will or will not do.

    3. MagicUnicorn*

      The nice thing about COBRA is that you can select it retroactively. You don’t have to sign up or pay for it ahead of time. Just keep your paperwork in case it is needed.

      My current employer could not change their insurance coverage start date but agreed in writing to cover the cost of COBRA for me should I need it during the waiting period. I ended up not needing it so that promise never cost them any money but that reassurance was nice for me to have.

    4. gyratory_circus*

      I’ve been working in health insurance for 15 years and spent almost a decade prior to that in hospital finance.

      One of the changes in Health Care Reform was to prohibit waiting periods longer than 90 days. Before that, waiting periods of up to 6 months were pretty common. Because of how premium billing works, it is very unusual to allow coverage to begin the day of hire, and the vast majority of plan stay First of the Month after X number of days, or First of the Month after the date of hire so that all of the additions/terminations for any particular group are calculated all at once.

      As for different waiting period for different classes, it’s not particularly common and in almost all cases it’s management/executives who are given a waived/shortened waiting period while the worker bees have to 30 or 60 days.

      1. Artemesia*

        I am surprised that is legal. I know that at the University where I worked the law changed decades ago about benefits like college tuition for dependents; they could not advantage some employees over others e.g. faculty over admin staff without making the benefits taxable to the employees. The result was that they reduced the benefit but applied it to everyone. So whereas faculty used to get 100% of their child’s tuition covered, now everyone gets 70%.

      2. RussianInTexas*

        My current job, started after the ACA was signed in to law, had 90 days probational period in which you are not legible for ANY benefits including paid holidays. And AFTER that 90 days waiting Perion for health insurance.

  12. S*

    #4 I believe that COBRA can be used retroactively? When I quit my job, I was uninsured for 2-3 months because I knew that I could sign up for COBRA backdated to my quit day if I got into an accident. If you can get the medication covered somehow (someone mentioned a 3-month fill), then this might offer you peace of mind!

    But to Alison’s point… isn’t the *whole reason* for the waiting period to discourage people with expensive conditions and/or immediate healthcare needs from taking the job? I agree it’s crappy, but I think the crappiness is the point.

    1. Lurker*

      No, I don’t think discouraging people with expensive conditions from taking a job is the point of waiting periods at all. COBRA is still a requirement (IIRC there are a few exceptions – like if your employer has less than a certain number of employees) so you can keep the insurance you have at the job you’re leaving until the new job’s waiting period is over. Or if COBRA is too expensive, leaving a job usually counts as a qualifying event which means you could get coverage through the health care marketplace if needed. Not really understanding how being able to keep the coverage you have (COBRA) would that discourage you from taking a new job.

      Waiting period length is negotiated with the insurance company when the employer renews its policies. It can’t just be waived ad hoc. Although, as someone upthread noted, you could conceivably have two classes of coverage – as long as it’s not discriminatory.

      The waiting period is so the employer doesn’t go through all the work to add an employee who then doesn’t work out — but per COBRA, the company is still required to offer them coverage for the next 36 months! So if someone works for 2 weeks then leaves, but enrolls in COBRA the employer is going to have to make sure their payments are made on time for potentially the next three years. It’s a lot of work, especially if the payments are late, but still within the grace period.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      To your first point, yes COBRA can be used retroactively. Everyone should read their own COBRA paperwork carefully and not rely on the advice of internet strangers, of course, but there’s a window (90 days) to sign up for COBRA and it will be backdated to your quit date.

      When I had an insurance gap of about a month when I changed jobs, I did not pay for COBRA up front because I knew I could pay after anything healthcare-related happened. Luckily for me, I didn’t need any healthcare during that month so I didn’t need to pay. This obviously doesn’t work for everyone, as some people need to see their doctors more often or have longer gaps between insurance coverage.

      1. Lurker*

        The COBRA window is normally 60 days from the last day of regular coverage, or 60 days from the date of the COBRA notice, whichever is longer.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Thank you! I meant to put a question mark after “90 days” because I (obviously) didn’t remember the length of the window, so I’m glad you have the correct information.

  13. JessA*

    Hi Allison, I am kinda curious about fostering. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got into that, if you don’t mind? (Please feel free to ignore this.) I am actually the oddball that wants to adopt an older teen or someone aging out of the foster system.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      We foster teens! We’ve had a 16-year-old with us for most of the summer. I’d be glad to talk about it on this weekend’s open thread if you want to post any questions there!

      2. Woah*

        I’m currently bouncing my foster baby and patting my six year old, who we adopted fro
        foster care!!! We’ve had several teens and a few middle schoolers and we loved having them. I’m so glad you’re fostering.

      3. Beebee*

        I’d love to hear more about this! I don’t ever want to biological kids but I would maybe be interested in fostering one day and would love to hear your perspective.

      4. Tsunade*

        Thank you so much for sharing this! My husband and I have been thinking quite seriously about fostering older children. Looking forward to this open thread!

        1. Artemesia*

          We were a foster family for awhile; working with CPS was something of a nightmare and the training and support were terrible. But it felt good to do something specific and concrete in a world with so much pain in it.

      5. Despachito*

        That is an extremely generous thing to do.

        I lost both my parents in my teens, and was generously taken care of by my distant relatives whom I never saw before. I do not know whether this counts exactly as “foster care”, but if you open this discussion in the weekend thread and are interested , I may pitch in from the point of view of the fostered child.

        (I will be never able to express enough gratitude to those who took me into their home and made me part of their family. I love them dearly and consider them my parents in the same way as my biological parents)

    2. smeep248*

      Hi JessA, I want to foster older teens too, looking forward to getting that ball rolling. Particularly LGTBQIA+ or otherwise minority children because I worry about how they are treated where I live now. Most agencies are Christian based, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but I know of a lot of kids that have kicked out of foster homes for being queer or trans or queer/ trans AND black :(

  14. The Dude Abides*

    Regardless of your opinions of the foster care/CPS/CFS system (which employs me – don’t get me going on the state of the system as a whole), imagine the bad press the employer would have to deal with had the child been snatched from or died in the car.

    The gossiping co-workers should have kept their damn mouths shut outside of either informing the manager or sharing EAP information.

    1. Mid*

      Somehow, I don’t think bad press is even slightly on the list of important issues here, and honestly if that’s what my employer cares about, I would quit. They should care that their employees don’t have enough PTO to cover for childcare lapses which are inevitable in this current age, not that someone might write a bad Yelp review about them.

      1. MCMonkeyBean*

        Yeah, that is the oddest possible takeaway from this I think. (And honestly if anything press about the dangerous decisions some people end up making when they have no childcare options and are afraid of getting fired could be interesting, but there is no way that discussion would not immediately devolve into only tearing the mother to shreds anyway)

      2. LilPinkSock*

        Ding ding ding. Preventing a child’s death is the most important thing here…honestly, a company’s public image doesn’t even factor in for me.

      3. Unaccountably*

        If companies cared more about PTO than bad press, they’d offer enough PTO. Unfortunately, bad press might in fact be higher on the company’s priority list than their employees’ childcare lapses. It’s been like that as long as companies and working-parent households have existed, probably; at least in America since WWII. I’m surprised to hear someone say that bad press is not on the list of things an employer cares about. Of course it is.

    2. ecnaseener*

      A potentially life-threatening situation with potential to happen again seems like an acceptable thing to “gossip” about, IMO. If they hadn’t, LW wouldn’t have heard about it and wouldn’t be in a position to address the situation now. Sharing safety-related information is a good thing.

    3. Sloanicota*

      IMO the coworkers should have told Cora to bring the baby inside. Even if they don’t have the authority to do so, once they realized the baby was left in the car, it was the only human option. If they later chose to hide it from management or preferably pressed management to allow some sort of emergency option for people in Cora’s situation, either is moral. But leaving it out there and then gossiping about what a bad mother Cora is was not the way.

      1. MSWIntern*

        This! I know the manager is usually off-site, but surely there’s someone on-site who has the authority to make day-to-day decisions who could have advised Cora to bring the baby inside for today. They could have helped her figure out a longer-term plan once everybody got through today safely. It would have mitigated danger and potential liability at least.

    4. RebelwithMouseyHair*

      While that might be the reason why the employer would perhaps allow the baby to stay in a back room, I really don’t see how anybody could care a whit for the employer’s reputation when a baby or child is in danger.

  15. my 8th name*

    1: I will not present this as the right thing to do. Idk what the right thing is. But here’s what I would do: don’t call CPS (at this time). Just talk to her. Explain the risks. Explain that someone easily could have seen and called CPS. Explain that this shouldn’t happen again. And, ideally, present her with other alternatives since I really doubt this is the only time child care might ever fall through.

    If you have a good relationship with your boss and want to spend capital on it, maybe suggest that flexibility needs to be built into the work arrangement for personal emergencies (for everyone, not just Cora), because presumably Cora made the decision she did out of desperation. Did she feel she couldn’t call off without getting in trouble? Is PTO not avaivalible or plentiful? I’m not making excuses for her decision, but obviously there’s root to the problem here to be found (not by you, just in general). Also – once again, only if you’re willing – see if you all can organize shift coverage/switch systems for all of you for personal emergencies.

    I understand caring about the well-being of the child. But most children (and parents) just need support systems, not removal (obviously there are exceptions).

    Just my two cents. It’s also totally reasonable if you don’t task yourself with any of this, but if you want to help these are just some options to consider.

    1. Julia*

      “She left the car running for air flow and temperature control, and she apparently felt this was safe enough since our desks faces large picture windows and she parked right up front where she could “keep an eye on the baby.””

      I may be reading into this, but Cora sounds like she doesn’t think this was the wrong decision – she didn’t guiltily hide it from her coworkers but shared it, and even appears to have explained how she justifies it. I am guessing that telling her she is wrong is likely to provoke a lot of defensiveness – most people don’t like being told how to parent their children, after all, and desperate people whose options have run out often even less so.

      So explanations could be of limited utility. I suppose it’s worth a shot, though.

      1. my 8th name*

        I’m not convinced she fully understands the risks, in part because she told others about it; but you’re right, she absolutely might get defensive. But I’d risk it anyway. Because (a) she really may not know, (b) if she did know, knowing others are judging that decision may at least deter it in the future, and (c) I can guarantee she’ll be more defensive if CPS is called. But I’m fairly comfortable with confrontation so I’m biased to be honest!

      2. JSPA*

        She may have been asking for help, or explaining why she was looking outside all day, or why her car was running?

        I’m surprised nobody walking by called the cops, though. Almost makes me wonder if she was just ruminating while looking out the window, and spun some story when her coworkers called her on it?

        1. Julia*

          I’m not surprised at all, tbh. You’d be shocked at what people can get away with in broad daylight without anyone calling the cops. Passersby are less attentive than you’d think; I don’t tend to look inside car windows when I’m walking. I’m usually preoccupied by my phone or watching for traffic. Even for people who are attentive, a baby in a car is actually not that conspicuous and is easily missed or mistaken for an empty car seat.

          1. Baby Yoda*

            True, the baby isn’t jumping up at the windows to get attention like a dog would.

        2. PollyQ*

          The car may have been in a parking lot with little foot traffic. I find the notion that someone would claim to have left their child in a car unattended for hours when she didn’t actually do that extremely far-fetched.

        3. Hiring Mgr*

          Do you mean that there wasn’t even a baby in the car? That would be a pretty interesting excuse for daydreaming, kind of like “Officer there’s no way i was speeding, I’m drunk so I was being extra careful”

      3. Bagpuss*

        Bear in mind LW was hearing this second hand. It may well be that she knew it wasn’t great and was tryng to explain the reasons why /how she had reduced the risks as much as she could . And it’s also entirely possible that she was very uncomfortable and trying o reassure herself tht it wasn’t *that* bad.

        I think that OP speaking to her, expressing concern both about the baby’s safety, and the risks to Cora and the baby if it were to be reported, but also expressing sympathy and offering help (whether to assist in researching sources of help / support, joining her in speaking to management to ask whether it would be possible to bring a baby into the building in an emergncy/advocating for better PTO etc) are all thins that it is worth trying .

      4. Ellis Bell*

        It’s possible that she felt the solution was acceptable, but I actually read the openness and lack of guilt as being so desperate she didn’t give a fuck. It’s also the safer option to have the kid visible. I also thought it might be a message sent to the manager or others? This is a reach, but surely Cora’s subconscious wants to signal a need for help. This is why I think offering help has a decent shot of success.

      5. Lily*

        I think she told the coworkers because she was worried and checking on the baby frequently etc.
        I’m also sideeying the coworkers a bit – no one told her to just bring the baby in for four hours? Like that would be my first move in this situation. Judging and gossiping about her later ignores the fact that they could have done something in the moment, even if it was only “Cora bring the baby in, we haven’t seen them, and if the boss sees them and asks, your sister just visited with them” or whatever.

    2. bamcheeks*

      If you have a good relationship with your boss and want to spend capital on it, maybe suggest that flexibility needs to be built into the work arrangement for personal emergencies (for everyone, not just Cora), because presumably Cora made the decision she did out of desperation.

      This is where I would focus, OP. I don’t know what CPS is like in your area, what kind of relationship you have with Cora, and whether or not anything you can do would help or hurt there. BUT. You have someone who put her child at risk rather than call out at work. That’s a problem you should raise with your boss, and frankly I would go all out on spending whatever capital you have to make that point. Tell him how much that terrifies you. Whether it’s that your company has shitty policies, or that Cora doesn’t understand them, or that this was a particular day that you were short-staffed– you need to make the case in the strongest possible terms that if you have a staff member who has to choose between “calling in because my childcare fell through” and “leaving my baby in a car for four hours” and picked the latter, that is a problem the company needs to address with every possible urgency.

      1. Kira*

        > you need to make the case in the strongest possible terms that if you have a staff member who has to choose between “calling in because my childcare fell through” and “leaving my baby in a car for four hours” and picked the latter, that is a problem the company needs to address with every possible urgency.

        Agreed. And for people who think childcare is the responsibility of the parents — the Supreme Court just decided to make babies everyone’s problem for the foreseeable future. Expect both a decrease in the quality of CPS as it becomes overloaded and an increase of parents in desperate situations. This is a good practice run for the company.

    3. EmRo*

      I know it’s been stated by me and by many others on this thread but I have to say, one more time, a call to CPS does not equal removal of the child. It is a last resort and it does absolutely no one any good to pretend they are synonymous. They may be ineffective depending on jurisdiction but the first goal is to do exactly that: provide further support.

  16. Not A Real Manager*

    I remember reading a lot of job ads for reception/admin roles in Los Angeles that said things like “bubbly, enthusiastic, rock-star” and I learned (at least in that job market) those words really meant “hot young women to show off in the lobby of our office”.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Oh that’s absolutely how I read it. The bubbles they’re talking about are the ones south of the neck.

      1. Curmudgeon in California*

        This. Flat-chested or overweight women need not apply, men not considered.

    2. CoveredinBees*

      And rock-star means they will not be training you but expect you to do a wide variety of tasks, some of which aren’t really related to your role.

  17. Caroline Bowman*

    OP1 my blood ran cold. Where I’m from, where it’s very hot and also where unemployment is extremely, extremely high and education is not all that one might wish, these kinds of things often OFTEN end in unthinkable tragedy.

    In cases where people have completely inadvertantly (ie not keeping an eye, not running the engine) left their babies or their pets in cars, death has often been the result.

    My heart is broken for this desperate parent and the choices she felt compelled to make, because that’s what this is. Saying that, please OP1, please, you absolutely 20000% must speak with her privately and ensure that this can never happen again by whatever means necessary (suggestions of charities in the area etcetera), a total change in policy at your work place, whatever. If by some bizarre chance she’s not receptive or seems unconcerned, then this is a social services call that must be made. There would be no alternative to that.

    Terrible situation, well done to you for facing it and trying to do the right thing.

    1. NewJobGuy*

      Thank you, yes. There’s two issues here, a person being put in mortal danger and the systemic issues causing Cora to feel this is her best choice.

  18. Woah*

    Work with Cora and your workplace to make accommodations for the childcare hell most people are in right now. Maybe that’s identifying people who have spouses willing to do last minute childcare, or contracting with an agency, or offering free care.com memberships, or changing your offices culture to one where no one is thrilled about the baby coming to work, but everyone knows that Shit Happens.

    I do want to say that I’m a mandatory reporter and probably would have had to call it in. Which makes me very sad. Sometimes I don’t listen to certain things because I Don’t Want To Know, truly.

    1. Help the Coras out there*

      I agree with you and Alison’s advice. Employers have to be more flexible in these trying times for families. This heartbreaking situation could have ended in tragedy. It could have been avoided if Cora had the option to work from home, bring the baby in with her to do four hours of work away from reception, or had a separate room with a baby monitor to place the baby while she worked reception and checked in regularly. If someone had cared enough to say, “This is a tough time for parents, Cora, and it’s not your fault. So many are struggling with childcare. Bring the baby in, and we’ll figure something out,” a workable solution for those four hours could have been found. What a relief that would have been for her to be shown some compassion. Not to get controversial here, but in a country that wants babies born at all costs, where is the support for them and their families when they arrive and are faced with difficult situations such as this with a single parent with no support system? The OP should use this as a reason to push for better support and compassion for employees in difficult situations.

      1. Help the Coras out there* ]*

        If OP pushes for more support for employees and gets it, the conversation between the manager and Cora can go something like, “Cora, I heard that you left your baby in the car for four hours while you worked because your childcare fell through. That must have been a difficult decision for you to make that could have had tragic consequences. I’m sorry you felt that was your only option. We aim to be a supportive workplace for our employees. In the future, if something like this happens, I want you to (fill in the solution here), and we’ll make it work somehow.” How nice would that be for Cora to know she has that support!

        1. CheesePlease*

          yes! this is the type of conversation that should happen. We should always start conversations assuming parents want to do what is best for their child.

    2. Sloanicota*

      This mandatory reporter thing is going to blow up now that states like Texas are requiring mandatory reporters to report on trans families so they can be investigated, plus all the abortion stuff. I expect these situations will increase. I do not know what people will do, but already I hear that in many cases it is nurses and doctors who are informing on, for example, women experiencing miscarriage that they find “suspicious” (eg, the women are BIPOC). When that becomes the law of the land, I believe medical staff have a higher moral obligation *not* to comply, so there is going to have to be a lot of “not hearing” or “not noticing” that goes on. It will become immoral to accept a mandatory reporter job if the state is evil. (I already hear of CPS being called on innocent, loving families because certain types of injuries require mandatory reporting, and the result is trauma, trauma, trauma because the agencies are not good – clearly the intent was for a thoughtful investigation but that is not what happens).

  19. Mrs. Hawiggins*

    Indeed a terrible situation. Cora needs solutions, not more problems. If a person unrelated to the company or coworkers and Cora’s situation, etc saw the baby in the car, say while they were happening by at lunch, they could be inclined to make a call, and all the things we all don’t want to happen to her or the baby could happen. If it meant the difference between having the baby under the desk or in the car, would anybody bat an eye if she brought the baby in? If she has no other choice and the baby just sleeps? Not great, but when working or not working means gas & lights or no gas and lights, or, you go into the red to hire a sitter or daycare, a few hours of a sleeping baby under the desk should at least be understood to some degree. These are desperate times anymore. Help just seems to get further and further away.

      2. Mrs. Hawiggins*

        I get it, really I do. I can only hope that this was Cora’s only option and not a “oh well it’ll be fine,” kind of thing if that’s even a healthy thought. Where are we when leaving a car on for your baby is the only way to earn money. I’m sad for her and the baby. Good Lord just bring him or her in.

  20. Beebee*

    For Cora, is there an option for her to bring the baby inside if there’s really no other alternative? Obviously that’s not great long term or often but I have to think the manager would rather the baby be safe instead of in the car. Could the company also potentially cover some of her child care costs ? Or in any way be more flexible if she has to call out due to it falling through?

    I think it would also help to talk to her and explain why this is so dangerous. She may really have thought it was the best option and not know how badly it could have gone! But that seems like something more for the manager to do, and maybe LW only brings it up if she knows it happens again or the topic is relevant? I just say this because sometimes unsolicited (even well meaning) parenting advice can feel like an attack when it’s not meant to be, especially if she’s already under a lot of stress.

    I’d also talk to the other coworkers and let them know what to do if that happens again (aka do whatever is needed immediately so Cora isn’t leaving the baby in the car + reach out to manager).

    1. Beebee*

      Also to be clear I agree with those above saying this is extremely unsafe and the ultimate priority should be the baby’s safety. I just think the above are the easiest options that don’t involve calling CPS, but without knowing Cora and Lws relationship it’s hard to say what LW should do versus what the boss should do.

      If this happens again I don’t think you have a choice though.

    2. Johnny B*

      If they really don’t know it’s dangerous, they need parent education, which CPS can help with…not a lecture from a colleague.

      If they knew it was dangerous, and did it anyways because they felt forced to by circumstances, they need access to recourses, which CPS can provide.

      CPS is the answer here. This child deserves it.

  21. Katherine Spiers*

    So many good suggestions here for options LW1 has before going the punishment route. Perhaps LW1 could recommend a babysitter or even offer to babysit herself. I know how corny this sounds, but … it really does take a village. (I don’t have kids and I’m always happy to help my friends who do. Parenting looks exhausting.)

      1. Lilo*

        CoS is overworked, but they do also try to connect parents with help when they can too.

      2. pancakes*

        It’s not as a result necessarily the best option when a baby or child isn’t in immediate danger, though. I mean, yes, that’s a point in its favor, but that isn’t in itself the sole concern, either.

        1. Glomarization, Esq.*

          A 4-month-old infant left in a car alone for multiple hours is in immediate danger. There is no getting around this. A baby that young must be attended to.

    2. bamcheeks*

      I would disagree, none of these are *good* suggestions. Every single one is a bad solutions to a terrible, awful situation that should never arise, caused by a society with a lack of care for new parents, a lack of job security, a lack of childcare infrastructure, and a lack of options. They are just — but literally only just! — marginally better than leaving a baby in a car.

    3. Attractive Nuisance*

      It does take a village. It’s not clear whether or not there is a village available here. LW can’t take on the responsibility for babysitting Cora’s baby if she is working the same shift or if she is busy with her own life. She can try to advocate for better policies, but that might not be successful. I can understand why someone would hesitate to call CPS- I would too- but as many commenters have pointed out, Cora’s problem is systemic and requires a complex solution, not a band-aid. I’m not convinced Allison has provided a solution that has a higher chance of success than calling CPS.

  22. Varthema*

    Agree that the best thing to do is to tell Cora (or better, have a manager do it) that next time, to either bring the baby in or call out, because they don’t want a baby’s death on their conscience. As others have said, there are no emergency childcare services right now in most places I know, so these are really the only two okay options on the table for her in such situations to begin with. I did not realize when I had a kid how often even good reliable childcare would not work – fortunately my partner and I WFH so we can swap off and still be moderately productive, but holy cow. I don’t know how people manage otherwise.

    I also actually think that a cold clinical mention of her baby’s death in that way will hit harder than any sit-down explanation (“something terrible could have happened, your baby could have died, etc”), though I can’t quite put my finger why.

    And I think there are a lot of good points about CPS – possible they will stay hands-off and just provide counseling, possibile that there will be tons of hearings during working hours and she’ll end up jobless, possibly homeless, possibly childless. This may be an exaggeration, maybe she’s comfortable income/savings-wise and made a really poor choice, but given the economic situation of many in her kind of job, I think it’s horses rather than zebras to make the assumption that she’s got very little margin for missing a paycheck (also, otherwise she probably would’ve just called out to begin with even if it was unpaid time off).

    1. Kira*

      Given the cost of gas these days, I have to wonder if Cora even broke even after 4 hours of running the car. This truly does seem like someone who was all out of options and lacks support (otherwise why not call off that day or ask to bring the baby in)? Letting her know that you guys are willing to support her in an emergency would be a kindness.

  23. Silverose*

    ANY mandated reporter who knows about story #1 and who knows the parties involved – where the mother/child live, work, phone number, etc – would be REQUIRED to call child protection services based on the information provided by LW or risk facing legal penalties and loss of job and career. That story meets statutory requirements for “reasonable suspicion of child abuse and/or neglect” in every state and 1st world country with child welfare agencies.

    I understand all the people with the first inclination to try and help privately but do you really know the available resources in your area or do you need a social services person to provide that information to the parent? Half of CPS’ job in most states is to help struggling families get access to the resources they need to get by without traumatizing the kids by removing them from the home. Yes, it’s true this varies by jurisdiction, but the federal government has been encouraging states over the last 2-3 years to implement family preservation programming to minimize removals unless absolutely necessary for child safety. No, “the system” isn’t perfect but when the alternative could be an infant dying due to unsafe sleep conditions, we work with what we have.

    1. Kira*

      It’s highly unlikely that OP or their boss are mandated reporters. Also, saying that “we work with what we have” when it comes to CPS while ignoring the horrific abuses endured by many kids in and through the system seems a bit like talking about how cops may be terrible but without them who would protect us from the worst of society — without pointing out the litany of abuses that many cops commit (highest rates of DV and sexual assault, anyone?).

      Siccing the system on someone and washing your hands of the whole thing may make you feel better, but it doesn’t mean the people you were “trying to help” are better off. If OP really wants to help, she should do some research into community services for new/low income parents and get her employee in touch with an organization designed to *help* them rather than one that will criminalize her for being poor. Start by contacting women’s shelters or social justice groups that advocate for women and children’s rights. At the very least, make sure to research what CPS is like *in her local jurisdiction* before going that route.

      To make it clear, I don’t approve of that Cora did at all. I think that OP would be will within her rights to talk about how dangerous it was (some of the commenters here have described how it could have failed in a catastrophic way if the AC had cut out, someone had stolen the car, etc) and emphasize that such a thing can never happen again. But that should be accompanied by actual helpful resources, not a threat to sic the system on someone who doesn’t know what else to do.

      1. doreen*

        It’s not really that unlikely – there are 15 or so states where any person who suspects abuse or neglect is required by law to report it. And even aside from that , a busy office where “there are 2-4 of us sitting in a row working together to check clients in ” sounds like a medical/dental office where there will be some people mandated by their profession even if it’s not a state where everyone must report.

        1. Kira*

          If OP was a mandated reporter, she would know. The fact that she’s questioning whether or not to call CPS suggests that she is not. And regardless, that doesn’t negate any of the other points I made in my comment.

          1. doreen*

            They way I see people talk about “mandated reporters” (here and elsewhere) as if it’s only people in certain professions who are required to report, I’m not at all sure that most people who live in those “everyone is required to report” states are aware of that requirement.

            1. Nat Romanov*

              There’s “mandated reporter” which is a defined category and then there’s this: if harm HAD come to Cora’s baby, criminal negligence falls not only on desperate Cora but on the gossipy plural adults who watched the situation unfold and did not say Oh Cora, bring that baby indoors while we figure out a better plan.

            2. pancakes*

              Hopefully the people in those states are going to look closely at those requirements instead of relying on broad summaries by commenters. Have a look at the Texas one I linked to above.

              1. Liz*

                And the same should go for the “CPS ruins lives and targets minorities” characterizations, no?

                1. pancakes*

                  You suppose people who have talked about those concerns pulled them from a set of legally binding obligations? They’re not of equivalent force simply because you’ve categorized them as the binary opposite of reporting.

    2. Silly Janet*

      Yes to this. I am a mandated reporter and would have to make the call. One thing I learned from mandated reporter training (for childcare providers in California) is that we should not be the judges and juries in a situation like this. We make the call, tell them the situation, and they are the ones that make the decisions going forward.

    3. definitelyanon*

      Came here just to second this. I am foster parent, a mandated reporter by profession and happen to live in a state where all adults are mandated reporters. The permanency goal of children in foster care is overwhelmingly family reunification, not ripping kids apart from their parents. CPS workers have the dual goals of keeping kids out of danger and also helping their bio parents reach a place in their lives where they can care for the physical and emotional needs of the children. All mandated reporters should know that our job is not to determine whether or not a removal is necessary, but to to gather the facts when we become aware of a situation that may be abuse and neglect and make the call. People should check to see if all adults are mandated reporters in their state.

      Babies are less able to regulate their body temperature that older children and adults. A hot car death can happen within minutes. If you see children in a car alone, get help immediately.

  24. A Pinch of Salt*

    #4: Aree you married and does your spouse have Healthcare through their job? If so, you losing your healthcare when leaving your job is a qualifying event and gaining healthcare is another. You can go on their healthcare until yours kicks in (or stay there). A pain? You bet. But it covers the gap.

    I did this when I started a job and didn’t want myself and my baby SOL on healthcare, especially in a pandemic with her in a germ factory (aka daycare). My gap was only 2 weeks though. I dont *think* the 2 month gap changes anything, but I’m not an insurance professional.

    1. LW 4*

      No, my partner and I are unmarried, and he doesn’t have insurance at all, which drives me nuts.

  25. OP3*

    OP3, here.
    Thank you all for confirming that I’m not just being pernickety.
    This leads me to the next issue which is that, I probably do have a “bubbly personality”. I enjoy giving my patients a good “consumer experience” and have a reputation for being able to engage with the difficult-to-engage. So the roles advertised do, in many other ways, appeal to me but I feel compelled to boycott them entirely.
    Plus, I have this idea that the advertisers are having some vision of a pretty young nursie, twittering about the clinic giggling and looking decorative, which am not.

    1. Allonge*

      It’s perfdectly reasonable for you to avoid these jobs, especially if you can pick and choose!

      Obvioulsy nothing wrong with having a bubbly personality, but just as it would be off-putting to advertise for ‘motherly’ kindergarten teachers, these job ads say something about the people who wrote them, approved them and so on.

      As you and Alison both mention, there are perfectly good words for the behavior that is needed – words without the sexist overtones, and with a lot more useful content (frankly, I don’t care what the personality of someone interacting me is like as long as their behavior is appropriate).

      1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

        There’s a young lifeguard at our swimming-pool. She’s not in the least bubbly or motherly, yet she is really wonderful working with the kids at the pool and they all love her and behave well around her.

        For me bubbly personality means they want a pretty blonde with perky breasts, who might send you to the wrong office but will be forgiven precisely because of her pretty perky, and because she fits so neatly into the cliché of incompetence that makes men feel that much better about their own incompetence, hidden beneath their grave demeanour and grey suit.

    2. Jellyfish*

      As someone who was once chastised for being insufficiently bubbly in a reception position, it’s not just you!

      I’ve noticed I’m a lot better in a customer/ patron facing role now that I’m not being openly judged on a scale of perky, performative femininity.

      There’s nothing at all wrong with bubbly personalities, but I agree it’s a yellow flag as a job requirement. It could be an okay job with an HR person who didn’t put much thought into their word choice, but I definitely ran into other significant elements of sexism at the place that demanded bubbliness from me.

    3. ecnaseener*

      I wouldn’t even think of this as a boycott – it’s a red flag for how little respect you can expect to be treated with in that role. Pass it by in favor of other postings that frame your strengths as the professional skills they are.

      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        Agree. I mean, by this standard, I boycott job ads where they want to pay me half my expected hourly rate.

    4. anonymous73*

      I once saw a job ad that said “TL;DR” and followed with some cutesy one sentence line about the job. I laughed and immediately closed it because I want no parts of a role that attracts the type of person who would find that “fun”. I don’t blame you for ignoring these roles for exactly the reason you state in your last sentence.

  26. Kira*

    #1 – as horrified as I am by the situation, I would ask OP to really think through, with empathy, the circumstances that would have led Cora to make this decision. There have been times I’ve done things that could have ended in tragedy if I’d been a little less lucky, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. How many people have driven to work while exhausted because they didn’t have a choice? (E.g. New parents with babies who don’t sleep through the night yet) Driving while tired is just as dangerous as driving drunk.

    So when talking to the boss, I hope OP is willing to consider what the workplace could do to support its employees so that this never seems like the least bad option again. Could they have allowed Cora to bring her baby inside and kept her under the desk? Allowed her to skip today’s shift and make up the hours a different day? Can they build any connections with childcare programs or community services for employees in distress? Maybe see if the EAP offers any resources?

    A part-time receptionist is likely not getting paid super well. I just feel so incredibly sad that this was the best she thought she could do (and honestly, some comments about what they would do in Cora’s place seem to be quite tone deaf as to the likely reality of her situation). Post-COVID, childcare has become a nightmare. I hope Cora and her family get the support they need.

  27. Anon LCSW*

    Long time reader, first time commenter. I’m a clinical social worker so while I don’t work in child welfare I am a mandated reporter and regularly interface with the child welfare system. Allison, I’m honestly horrified by your advice as this is so far outside your realm of expertise. CPS needs to be called. At a minimum this is neglect. This child could have died. This child could still die if the mother does this again. Babies need to be fed, they need to be changed, they need a minimum standard of care and being locked in a running car for hours does not meet even a minimum standard of care. OP please, please contact your state’s child abuse and neglect hotline.

    I’m well aware that the child welfare system is extremely problematic in many ways, especially in terms of race and class. If Cora left the baby in the car for five minutes to run and grab something from her desk I’d question her judgment but not jump to a CPS report. Four hours? That needs to be reported. The baby literally could have died.

    1. Ducks*

      Thank you. I expected a response along the lines of “call CPS yesterday, and meanwhile call 911 if she does it again and you’re present”. Regarding having compassion for the parent… how about having compassion for the baby? The danger it was subjected to is being severely trivialized here.

      1. Luna*

        If the OP had been there while the baby was still locked in the car, absolutely call 911.

      2. Anon LCSW*

        Agreed. Compassion for Cora needs to be balanced with the welfare of the child. The fact is that the baby’s life was absolutely in danger. Aside from being in the car and the potential for it to overheat even if left running because it could run out of fuel, AC could break, etc, the baby wasn’t being fed or changed. Baby could have gotten sick, baby could have spit up, baby could have aspirated, SO many things can go wrong.

        Where I am, NYC metro area, there are resources ONLY CPS can refer to that can help people like Cora. I’ve seen CPS and the courts order the state pay for licensed daycare. They can connect Cora to preventive and wraparound services. Lay people cannot make referrals to these services.

        1. Student*

          Grown adult, former child-abuse victim here.

          I prefer abused-but-alive to baked-to-death-in-a-car, for what it’s worth. The abuse was horrible for 17 long years. But I lived, and I grew up, and now I’ve had some 20 years of post-abuse life that I’ve been mostly very happy about.

          For people wringing their hands about calling CPS – I wish someone had called CPS on my parents. Instead, they told themselves comforting stories about why they didn’t need to intervene. I hope for better for Cora and her kid than what I went through – but you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. You have no idea if this was a one-time thing, or this is a regular occurrence. Telling yourself otherwise is just telling yourself a story.

          I remember one time, my mother decided to use me as a living ashtray while we were waiting for a ferry. This was at Disney World, in the middle of a small crowd. I was around 6 years old at the time. I know at least one bystander saw her bury her cigarette in my arm. I know the whole crowd heard me scream in pain from the burn and saw/heard me frantically try to splash water from the lake on it. I will always wonder what stories those people told themselves to justify doing nothing, saying nothing. Their stories did me, a child at the time, exactly zero favors, but cut a lot of slack for my parents. Those stories made sure that my parents were comfortable, that the bystanders were all comfortable, and the only one who had to bear any pain or fear or scars was me, a little 6-year-old girl.

          1. MrsThePlague*

            I’m so, so sorry, Student. This is a powerful anecdote, and powerfully written. I’m glad you’re in a better place and experiencing peace.

            I try really hard to fight the ‘bystander effect’ impulse (to the point of exasperating my parents – “don’t get involved!”) when something I know is wrong is happening (racist abuse, women being harassed, etc.). But I struggle with the question of intervening with parents/kids, because there’s *such* a strong narrative around not ‘shaming’ parents by doing things that seem to call out their parenting. And as non-parent, I want to be sensitive to that (parenting IS hard! Society doesn’t make it easier!), but it makes it confusing to figure out where the line is.

            All that to say, I really appreciate your perspective as the child in this kind of situation, and it’s given me (and I’m sure others) food for thought. Thank you for sharing.

    2. Johnny B*

      Yes yes yes. This is the first time I’ve been shocked at Alison’s advice. It seems that is a lack of understanding of CPS! Is cps perfect? Absolutely not…but they’re job is to provide families with the help and resources to not make dangerous decisions like this one. Alison, I really hope you’ll reconsider your advice here. I feel for the woman who had to make a hard decision, it seems like she felt that she was put in an impossible place, and that work culture needs to be addressed too, but the safety of this little baby needs to come first.

      Anyone who thinks the a/c car was safe for the baby is uninformed. My brother once had a flat, and pulled to the side of the road with his Baby in the car. He didn’t realize his a/c had also broken, and while he was standing next to the car, his little baby was roasting inside. He didn’t notice until he fixed the flat, and the baby was all sweaty and lethargic. THANK god the baby was ok, but he was literally STANDING next to the car and didn’t notice.

      Sorry for ranting. I’m horrified. Alison, please change your advice. This is dangerous.

    3. doreen*

      I’m actually surprised that Alison answered this letter at all, as it has almost nothing to do with work. I mean, it happened at the OP’s job but the situation itself is not work-related – the OP could have been a client rather than a fellow employee, or a friend or neighbor who heard about the incident from another neighbor.

      1. Shirley You’re Joking*

        Why aren’t we questioning the judgement of the other colleagues who knew there was a baby in a car? One of them should have had the brains and guts to say: Go get your baby. It’s dangerous. We can figure out what to do when the baby is safe.

        1. ecnaseener*

          Because they didn’t write in and will never see this? Because LW already said they were horrified at their coworkers’ bad judgment so there’s not much else to say?

      2. Oh geez*

        Where I would have expected the advice to go was something like “.. after you’ve called CPS, go to your supervisor and re-iterate that this is a workplace that compels people to put their children in danger for fear for retribution” (for a receptionist job!?) “And recommend emergency paid leave days, X per year, for situations such as this” … or something to that effect, something about improving the workplace to avoid it happening again, not ignoring a child in danger.

        1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

          OP (as far as we know) is one of 4 part-time receptionists in a busy office. It does not sound like they are a person with a lot of clout in their workplace.

    4. Cat named Brian*

      Thank you. I am aghast at the number of commenters that are agreeing with Allison. That mother needs resources because odds are she is going to do this again or something similar if she is that desperate.

    5. socks*

      Obviously leaving the baby in the car wasn’t a safe decision, but where are people getting the idea that Cora never checked on/fed/changed the baby? Leaving the baby in the car for the whole shift doesn’t mean she never left her desk.

      1. Anon LCSW*

        Look, with kids everything is fine until it isn’t. Even if Cora periodically left her desk and checked on the baby the level of care and supervision was inadequate. I’m not saying Cora is a bad person or even a bad mother. Her actions in this instance absolutely constitute neglect and if the baby was injured or died while in the car then she could have faced manslaughter or homicide charges. Should her coworkers have stepped in? Yes. If you know a baby is locked in a car then you should say something but they are not responsible for the baby. Cora is.

        As a social worker if I knew about this and failed to report I could be sued, lose my license, etc. Because this is neglect.

        1. socks*

          I didn’t say she was providing adequate supervision. I just don’t think it’s helpful to assume that because Cora made a bad decision, she also made the worst possible subsequent decisions.

          1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

            But… what many reasonable people in the comments are saying is, exactly – we don’t know and we shouldn’t assume the best when an infant appeared endangered. That is why you call CPS, so they can look into the situation and understand the incident, and work with the parent to make sure it never happens again.

            1. socks*

              I didn’t say not to call CPS. I just think it’s unhelpful and unkind for commenters to assume Cora was completely ignoring her baby for four hours. We don’t have to assume the absolute worst about Cora to acknowledge that she put her baby in danger.

        1. CheesePlease*

          I think all that socks is trying to say is that yes, there is a risk of death / serious injury even when a baby is in the car for just 15 minutes alone, but the assumptions many are making that Cora “ignored” her child for 4hrs – not feeding, changing or in any other way being with her baby are just speculation. Nobody is saying that leaving a baby in the car for 4 hrs but checking on them every 20 minutes is a good thing!! Just saying that we don’t need to assume the worst of parents.

    6. CheesePlease*

      Just commenting that OP only heard the situation second-hand from coworkers, and was not working alongside Cora. We don’t know if Cora took frequent breaks to check on her baby to feed and change her, or what other measures she did to make the situation as safe as possible. Without knowing all the details, I think we assume the worst (knowing what tragedy could have occurred) but OP can’t call CPS based on gossip / secondhand knowledge AFAIK.

      1. Anon LCSW*

        OP can call the state central registry and let the professionals decide if this meets criteria for a report.

      2. doreen*

        Sure she can – reporting requires a suspicion and the people taking the report can decide whether it merits investigation. Many reports are explicitly based on second-hand information – when I worked in CPS , I received many reports from school/medical/ counselling staff who did not have first-hand knowledge, but were reporting abuse/neglect that they heard about from a sibling/friend/other parent or relative.

        1. CheesePlease*

          Perhaps it works differently in other states. I felt compelled to call CPS one time (hoping to help the parent get access to resources) but because I was only going off of what friend of the parent were telling me (no clean running water at home, parent so ill they couldn’t get out of bed to get to work or take child to school etc), and had not interacted with or seen the child (ex: could not tell CPS if child looked malnourished or dirty in a way that harmed their health, did not speak with the child, could not say if child had been injured or hurt etc) they basically told me they couldn’t do anything since I could not provide enough information, even if the situation sounded very severe from what I had been told.

      4. Waiting on the bus*

        Thank you. I haven’t read every single comment on this letter, but I’ve read a lot and not only do many go with the worst possible interpretation of what happened, they are also taken it as given that events did happen exactly as the gossipy coworkers relayed them to OP.

        Which, it might have happened like that. But there were also two other adults there while the baby was in the car, for four hours, were aware of it… And apparently saw no need to change any of it? They could have done any number of things, including calling CPS while the baby was actively in danger, but instead their course of action was to do nothing and then gossip once Cora had left? For me, that severely calls to question if this really happened as they describe. OP, definitely talk to Cora first and see what she says.

        And when you see a baby alone in a car, get it out of there! (I realise that that’s what OP would have done had she been there, but I just cannot believe those coworkers who apparently just let it happen for FOUR HOURS.)

        1. Roja*

          That’s a good point. I have a six month old and honestly, if someone told me that while at work, I would get the car keys in any way I could and get that baby out. I missed the fact that multiple people knew about this while it was happening–that’s either completely horrific neglect from everyone involved, or there was something exaggerated in the telling. I don’t think I know anyone in real life who wouldn’t rescue that baby stat!

          It would frankly be more safe to leave the baby at home in her crib for those four hours. I mean, it’s obviously not safe, and would still be reportable neglect. But at least the home would be (presumably) climate controlled and baby would “only” be hungry, wet, and crying, not at risk of death by heat stroke or positional asphyxiation.

          My job is a bit of a grey area as to whether or not I’m a mandated reporter. But I do work with kids, and if I had done this, not only would I be fired but I would never work with children again. My boss would be so, so utterly horrified that I hadn’t brought the baby inside that she might actually yell (she is one of the calmest people you will ever meet). I don’t know how to do this without making workplaces baby-friendly, which they’re not, but seriously… I think very few bosses would not prefer a baby inside to outside in a car. Perhaps the boss can tell Cora that?

          1. Curmudgeon in California*

            Yeah, even I, who am not a “kids person”, would rather have a baby inside screaming its head off than possibly roasting in a car.

            1. Roja*

              Yup. I work a job where either kids are fine to be there (dance studios; teachers’ kids often grow up in the studio) or very, very not fine to be there (a 2 y/o running around backstage while one is performing, for instance–backstages are dangerous; risk of disrupting the show; risk of destroying tens of thousands of dollars of equipment). Yet, even in the latter situation, there are very few people in this world hard-hearted enough to prefer the risk of roasting a baby to having them at work.

        2. CheesePlease*

          Even if other coworkers didn’t call CPS (perhaps they don’t know all the risks of leaving a baby in the car), at the very least they could have communicated the situation to their manager or other higher-up. It seems like there were ways to prevent the dangerous situation from continuing that sadly didn’t happen. (also all the clients that walked in the building saw a baby in the car? and didn’t say anything…?) I also think that assuming good intentions in parents when we don’t know the full story is a kind thing to do, and we should strive to treat parents this way. This doesn’t diminish the risk of the situation, just, idk be a kind human and stop assuming the worst?

    7. Sara -H*

      Thank you and agreed. This is horrible and frightening advice. You report and let the professionals assess from there. The system is far from perfect but this advice not only leaves this child open to future neglect but also perpetuates the stigma of the system being out to get everyone rather than help. I’m sorry but this advice is extremely ignorant and missed the mark exceptionally hard.

    8. Linda*

      Agreed. I work in social services and I’m very aware of all the problems with CPS, but i find it really irresponsible for Alison to actually discourage people from getting the authorities involved when an infant is left in car.

  28. rr*

    Or, you know, if you’ve met your deductible and/or out of pocket, COBRA might be cheaper than changing plans with an ACA plan until you have to change plans anyway when you are covered by your new employer. Which means, depending how the plans work, and when you’re eligible for the new coverage, you might get the job of starting over with the deductible again (0r even twice more) just when you had met the old one.

    But it is basically impossible to figure out the costs, which is also why it is so bad.

    1. LW 4*

      Yep… I generally meet my out of pocket max the first quarter of every year, and this year is no different.

  29. Justin*

    Criminalizing her behavior won’t help anyone. Offer her help and services if you can.

    (Alison, you’re fostering now? Wow)

    1. bamcheeks*

      Do you think calling CPS is akin to criminalising her? Genuine question, I’m not being arsey. I recognise that calling CPS can start a chain of events that leads to criminalisation, but I wouldn’t characterise calling CPS in the first place as criminalising. (And that’s an absolute indictment of the service if it is, because it means they simply cannot do the job they are supposed to do.)

      1. Claire*

        Not Justin, but yeah I’d absolutely consider calling CPS to be criminalizing Cora. The NYTimes has some excellent long form articles on the failures of the child protective system and the way it has criminalized poverty and disproportionately affected black and brown mothers.

        1. braindump*

          CPS has also helped plenty of families in need like mine – the media won’t report on cases gone right.

          1. pancakes*

            In fairness, not a lot of people are willing to open the doors on some of their family’s biggest challenges in a newspaper or on tv. Public exposure is not all sunshine and roses.

          2. doreen*

            It’s not so much that the media won’t report cases that go right- it’s possible that they might not be interested, but most of the reason people don’t even know CPS provides services is because people who feel CPS helped them aren’t typically calling the media. It’s the people who believe they were mistreated who call the media.

            1. braindump*

              Exactly, this is what I mean.

              I (and my mom) got help from CPS when I was very young. I’d happily contribute to a news story 30 years later about how my mom was referred to free mental health care and HeadStart for kids below the poverty line.

              1. Doreen*

                You might be willing to contribute to a story – but the media won’t know you exist unless you reach out to them . CPS can’t direct them to you due to confidentiality.

        2. pancakes*

          The NY Times did a lot of heavy lifting criminalizing poverty and black and brown mothers itself. It published tons of long form articles about “crack babies” through the 1990s, only to concede in a semi-apology in 2018 that the reporting was based on “totally unsubstantiated” research and figures “clearly drawn from myth,” without explaining what would be changing in the editorial process as a result. I will link to that separately because I think not enough people know about it this sort of thing.

      2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

        I don’t know if it’s criminalizing, exactly, in that any action goes through family court rather than criminal court… but the usual advice I’ve seen is that if someone reports you to CPS you should be retaining a lawyer, if you can (and obviously many people can’t). I would definitely consider it adversarial. Before this comment section I don’t think I’ve ever heard of CPS connecting families with needed services, only imposing additional obligations or separating kids.
        But then, I’m not a mandated reporter, and while I would’ve called 911 in the moment it wouldn’t even have occurred to me to call CPS once the danger was past. I’m not sure, even now, that I can see it as “neglect” in a layperson’s definition. I could see “child endangerment”, though, which I guess brings us right back to criminalization.

        1. bamcheeks*

          Calling 911 seems MORE “criminalising” to me that reporting to CPS.

          I’m interested to know whether you have children or have cared for a baby? Because I feel like the word “child endangerment” suggests a deliberate or entirely negligent act, and “neglect” suggests an ongoing pattern, and this doesn’t necessarily meet either. But from the point of someone who has been a primary caregiver of two small babies, leaving them alone in a car seat for four hours, however well-intentioned and desperate it may have been, is definitely heart-in-the-mouth you-just-can’t-DO-that bad, regardless of what precise label you give it.

          1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

            I have cared for a baby, yes – though in fairness when that baby was an infant, the dangers of positional asphyxiation were less well known, so keeping an infant in an age-appropriate car seat for a few hours with an adult present was acceptable; leaving an infant alone in a car wasn’t, though.

            In the event that I saw an infant left alone in a car for more than about 5 minutes, I would call 911. It *is* an emergency, and the child’s life is in danger. It probably would result in criminal charges for the parent; there was a woman in my area recently who got jail time for almost exactly this situation. But you can’t leave the kid in imminent danger.

            As soon as Cora’s shift was over and the infant was no longer unattended, the situation changed. Maybe there’s a pattern of bad judgement on Cora’s part that adds up to neglect and ought to be reported to CPS. But if this is the only incident OP is aware of, it is so easily explained as a bad call in a desperate situation and future danger is so easily prevented by making other options available. Involving CPS would just escalate things unnecessarily, I would’ve thought. But as I said, this comment section is the first I’ve heard of CPS connecting families to resources; my main understanding has been CPS-as-bogeyman, and may need revision.

      3. Pescadero*

        “Do you think calling CPS is akin to criminalising her?”

        Given my experiences with CPS, my co-workers experience with CPS, and a friends experience with CPS… Yes – even more so than calling the police.

        Three different cases with no crime involved (the last involving CPS paying out big money in a civil suit for their part in it) where CPS at a minimum treated all parents involved as criminals… and the civil suit case involved the removal of 4 children for almost 6 months – for literally made up reasons by CPS (thus the lost lawsuit involving a judge telling CPS they were “incompetent and malicious”).

      2. Lilo*

        My sister’s office had a case where a baby was scalded in the bath and the mom didn’t take the baby into the hospital because she was worried about CPS (the mother had been investigated previously). It took days for the baby to die.

        Point being, the “fear CPS” stuff does absolutely kill kids.

        1. Temperance*

          So … she let her baby die in agony? It sounds like it would have been a substantiated report, then.

  30. Susan*

    Awful advice for the first question. I understand Cora might have been desperate (or just incompetent, I can’t say what the circumstances are) but the focus should be on the child’s welfare and safety first, and there’s no way authorities should not be alerted in this situation. Imagine how the letter writer will feel if Cora does it again and something happens to the child.

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      And what if Cora loses her job because she can’t work because of no child care? That is another very bad situation.

      I think that Alison’s comments about talking to Cora and trying to work with her are the best of the LW’s options. Next best, offer to be the emergency child care person.

      1. Lilo*

        I thibk the problem is, when there’s a pressure point, the solution cannot be something that immediately risks killing a person. Cora needs a solution, yes. But the immediate priority is to stop a dangerous situation. The worst outcome here is not Cora losing her job, it’s a dead child.

      2. Sloanicota*

        In this case, I think the workplace might let Cora know that, in a true emergency with no one else to care for the child, it would be better for Cora to bring the baby into an unused office (with the monitor set up or whatever) than leave the baby in the car.

        For anyone who’s about to object to having a child in the office, what’s the venn diagram with you also saying it’s absolutely unacceptable to leave a baby in a car and it would be better to call the police even if the outcome was a complete disaster for all involved?

        1. Curmudgeon in California*

          As I said earlier, I’d rather have a baby screaming in the office than locked in a car. And I am very sensitive to the sound of babies screaming (and other high pitched noises.)

      3. Seashell*

        I’d rather lose my job and be on welfare than have my kid die. I’d rather get a job in a daycare center so I could place my kid there than have my kid die.

    2. Mom*

      Childcare falling through is a really common occurrence. At least with families in my office. It’s always handled by either working from home or taking a personal day.

      I think LW1 should encourage their employer to consider if they really have enough PTO available for employees.

    3. hbc*

      You’re assuming that the best way to prioritize the child’s welfare and safety is to call the authorities, and that is by no means certain. Helping Cora so that she doesn’t feel like her only options are having her child in the car or losing her job—that’s almost certainly better than getting her kid in the system.

    4. PostalMixup*

      At this point, calling child services serves only to punish – “you shouldn’t have done that, so now we’re going to make you pay, both literally in cash and also by removing your child and/or making you jump through hoops to keep them.” Calling COS doesn’t ensure this doesn’t happen again, unless they remove the child. Find a practical solution to ensure it doesn’t happen again without tearing the family apart.

      1. Aunt Teen Foster*

        Yeah no that’s not how CPS works. For starters, children aren’t taken away the second CPS is involved unless the abuse is egregious. You’re perpetuating harmful stereotypes that absolutely leads to children’s deaths please stop.

        In most situations, a case will be opened up and the familywill be investigated. That’s the part I’m guess you are calling “jumping through hoops?”. It’s usually home visits, where the home is assessed for safety, they’ll check food availability. Depending on the reason for the call, services and further trainings will then be part of the case. The vast majority of CPS cases ar closed out with the children never taken away.

        For my own family, the kids were taken away, but for that to happen the case had been opened for 2 years. There were numerous abuse events. Mandatory therapy and parental training classes did not address the recurring physical “punishments”. AKA those pesky hoops. Almost 3 months of school was missed per school year. A court mandated (outside of the CPS case) rehab was blown off. The last straw was that an emergency safety plan where the kids were living with me was broken by the mom before the kids were moved to foster care.

        If you listen to the mom and teen, they were “taken away without warning because mommy had a bad day and drank a beer at Applebee’s befoe driving her family home”.

        1. Silly Janet*

          Thank you. What people are saying above about CPS “tearing families apart” is grossly inaccurate perpetuates fictions, and only serves to cause children to be in danger.

  31. Luna*

    LW1 – Good that your manager has been informed about this, and I do hope they will talk to Cora about it. Maybe even allowing her to take the child into work, if child care really falls through this badly. I don’t overall advocate for children, especially young ones, to be allowed at work, but in a case like this, I think I’d rather have a young child at work (with the distractions and noise it will likely bring) than the risk of them being left alone in the car. (Same if it’s a case of a dog that cannot be left alone at home due to reasons)

    I wouldn’t call CPS right away. It could be that it was a desperate move by Cora and her brain shortcircuited in the sense of deciding this was the ‘best’/fastest/easiest way to deal with her child and work, without risking losing the latter. If it becomes a pattern, I would, though.

    LW3 – I’ve come across job ads that use terms like ‘open and approachable’ or similar terms, usually in customer service. Those tend to be more gender neutral. Though it could also be a case of German not necessarily having a word that easily translates to ‘bubbly’?

    1. bamcheeks*

      > It could be that it was a desperate move by Cora and her brain shortcircuited in the sense of deciding this was the ‘best’/fastest/easiest way to deal with her child and work, without risking losing the latter

      There are various concerns around whether CPS can adequately support Cora or not, and I’m not in the US so I’m not going to get into that. But “maybe Cora was desperate, maybe her brain shortcircuited, maybe this was a one-off” are NOT reasons not to call CPS. Those are exactly the situations where children and babies die. CPS isn’t reserved for parents who are obviously uncaring or abusive: they should absolutely be there to support good, loving parents who make awful, dangerous decisions in incredibly difficult circumstances. None of those is a reason *not* to call them.

    2. Cookie*

      “Bubbly” definitely means “young woman,” and implies “who will do anything we ask, no matter how egregious/out of scope, with a big smile on her face.” They are looking for a happy young female person who says “yes” to everything. Source: I’ve been told in reviews that I should be “more bubbly” and then had the characteristic explained to me.

      1. Luna*

        Did you point out to those interviewers what those charactertistics actually were and sounded like?
        “Sounds like you don’t want an employee, you want a talking sex doll.”

  32. Alicia*

    RE: health insurance
    As another person with a chronic and expensive illness, I totally understand why you’d be focused on this one sticking point. I have gone into panic mode multiple times in job hunts due to insurance issues, and it’s hard to see through it at the time. It’s highly unlikely that the 2 month minimum can change as it’s part of the company’s contract with the insurer. But there are options, none of which are going without insurance. Definitely look into COBRA, and if it’s not available, look into marketplace plans. Price out the cost of a plan with the same insurance company you’re on now or the one you would have at new company so that there would be no additional change of doctors. Factor in the cost of 2 months insurance premiums against the pay bump of this job, assuming there is one. Also, asking for the new company to cover the cost of the health insurance for 2 months is not unheard of and something they may actually be able to accommodate. Don’t forget to factor in the loss of whatever you’ve paid towards your deductible or max this year against the pay as well, and help it inform your negotiations around pay. Ask for the details of the plan(s) they offer and make sure it works for you. Good luck!

    1. LW 4*

      Thank you for this! The time and expense of an ACA plan in the interim would kill me, and that’s without going into trying to get a new prior authorization for the same medication TWICE in three months. Aetna already randomly removes my approvals every 3-6 months or so; I can’t stomach the thought of tripling that labor while learning a new role.

  33. Thegreatprevaricator*

    Re #1, the more I think about it, the more I want to know what the heck is going on in a company where co-workers are unable to respond like human beings to a situation with potentially dire consequences? If one of my co-workers did this in my customer facing days, I would tell them not to be an idiot and to bring the baby in. Screw workplace norms, this is a baby in a car for 4 hours. In summer. I would escalate to manager if I felt unable to deal with myself but I would do so in the confidence that no-one would be losing their job or experiencing adverse consequences. The safeguarding aspect is one thing but this is a situation where intervention to prevent safeguarding incident was really straightforward.

    1. Lily*

      Yeah, I mean it’s not like there’s no obvious solution to this dilemma. The solution is “bring the baby out of the car and into the building to be watched by either the mother or literally anyone else friendly and competent. This is not ” We don’t even have a building or other resources so our only option is the car and keeping our fingers crossed”.
      I mean that on a company/coworkers/society level. Not to blame Cora who didn’t bring the baby in because she was afraid of losing her job and simultaneously doesn’t make enough money for emergency childcare in this job that she needs as much that she sees no other option than putting her child at risk. This is fucked up on a societal level, and the coworkers gossiping but not urging her to bring her child in are part of it, and so is the manager who doesn’t make clear that in emergencies like this, people are to take paid leave or bring the child in, no consequences etc.

    2. LolaBugg*

      Agreed. I’m kind of surprised I had to scroll so far down to see this comment. There’s no way on earth I would have NOT intervened if I became aware of this situation as a coworker. I could never live with myself if something happened to that baby. Bring the car seat inside for crying out loud!

    3. Claire*

      Yes, this is one thing that struck me – I don’t care if it’s outside workplace norms, bring the baby in. Heck, I’ll take PTO to watch the baby or give Cora money if she has to take unpaid leave.

    4. hbc*

      Good point. I think the kind of place where you’d be afraid to raise the issue is exactly the kind of place where you would legitimately think your job was at risk because your babysitter fell through once in three months.

    6. Just Another Zebra*

      Cora’s coworkers absolutely should have intervened in the moment. Full stop. The only thing I can think is that they didn’t feel they had the authority to tell her to bring the baby inside, since they’re all receptionists with no “clout”. And they didn’t want to say anything to management because they didn’t want to get Cora in trouble. It’s also possible they did tell Cora to bring the baby inside, but she refused. We don’t know. OP doesn’t know. But I’ve seen this come up in a few places (side-eyeing the coworkers, which is valid).

  34. Irish Teacher*

    I’m no expert, but I wonder if it might be better for the manager to talk to Cora than for the LW to do so. Not saying she shouldn’t, but the manager should be able to offer solutions like “if you are ever in that situation again, bring the child into the office with you” or “if you are ever in that situation again, call me and I’ll see if I can arrange PTO for the day”.

    I know, as a teacher and mandated reporter, I have the right to ask the principal how he or she responded to any child protection issue I pass on to him. If it’s any reassurance for the LW, this is the proceedure for teachers, and presumably other mandated reporters in Ireland: you go to the designated person for dealing with issues in your school, almost invaribly the principal (if the principal is the subject of the allegations, you go to the Board), then he or she decides how to proceed and should tell you what he or she chose to do. If you still have concerns, for example, if he or she chooses not to report and you feel he or she is being negligent, you should then call yourself.

    So I guess what I am saying is that what you have done so far is almost exactly what I, as a mandated reporter, am supposed to do. I realise you probably don’t have a right to information, in the way a teacher does, but if you have a good relationship with your manager, it might be worth discussing the issue with him some more, making it clear that you know he has to maintain confidentiality but you are concerned and you wonder if there is any more you should do or if he feels he’s got it covered.

    1. un-pleased*

      I think there’s merit to this idea. The manager should absolutely be looped in at the very least because if something happens they need to be prepared to deal with any publicity. But more importantly, the manager should be involved in discussions to help Cora find other alternatives and for setting the expectation with others that she cannot do this again and that it’s not a matter of gossip. It’s an emergency with potentially permanent bad outcomes.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      I might be wrong, but in the US, I was under the impression if you’re a mandated reporter, it does not fulfill the requirement to report it only internally, such as to one’s boss.

      1. Silly Janet*

        Correct. At least in a childcare situation, you need to call CPS and it is up to you to tell your boss, the director, etc.

  35. Purple Cat*

    LW5 – I’m starting a new job that doesn’t kick in health insurance for THREE months. It’s outrageous. And of course it was very expensive too. Luckily I’m able to switch to my spouse’s plan instead. No words of advice, just solidarity.

    LW3 – I HATE the phrase “bubbly personality”. Not only is it highly-gendered as Alison pointed out, to me, it reads as fake and that’s the last thing I want in a health care provider’s office. Warm, friendly, caring – yes! Bubbly – no.

    1. Fieldpoppy*

      The person checking people in at my pedicure place has a bubbly personality. The other day I was quietly reading while waiting and she felt compelled to engage me in chat. She asked if I had fun plans for the summer and I said no, my mother just died and my sister and I are dealing with clearing out her house. She said “oh that can be fun! Look at the necklace I got when I helped my grandma after my grandpa died!”

      That’s what bubbly can get you.

  36. Non-executive realness*

    #4 Benefit waiting periods are pretty common – and are generally put in place to avoid anti-selection (e.g., someone starting a job, maxing out their benefits and then leaving the job in a short period of time) which can cost the employer and insurance company money. This is also why you may see a waiting period and/or pre-existing condition limitation (eg conditions diagnosed within x months before benefit eligibility date aren’t covered) for disability/income replacement – to avoid someone starting a job and immediately going on disability leave.

    That being said some employers may be able to request the insurer waive the waiting period for a new hire. If OP gets to the offer stage it would be worth it to ask if the employer can offer any flexibility on this, but I don’t think it’s necessary to mention a chronic illness/health condition- just cite concern about having a gap in coverage.

  37. Claire*

    I don’t think you should report Cora to CPS unless she seems blasé about the danger or does it again.
    I do think it’s a bit rich that a portion of the AAM commentariat is often complaining about having to cover for coworkers (mothers) with childcare issues and all the times they’ve been disadvantaged by working mothers, and then wants LW to call CPS on a desperate working mother. We really can’t win, can we?

    1. bamcheeks*

      No we can’t, because this *isn’t* an individual decision but a structural one which makes it inevitable that children and families will be put at risk, whether that’s risk of immediate harm or risk of poverty and homelessness because a parent can’t work. It’s not a matter of winning. And yes, this is absolutely about a terrible, awful, shitty decision that nobody should have to make, but that cannot be a reason to just breeze on last serious risk of harm to a baby.

    2. Cat Lover*

      Desperation does not justify actively endangering an infant. This would be true if it was a father instead of a mother.

    3. Former Young Lady*

      This is the second comment I’ve seen today about how the AAM “commentariat” (read: non-parents) are endlessly complaining about covering for our coworkers with kids, and implying that our “complaining” is somehow to blame for one parent’s dangerously negligent behavior. I really do have empathy for Cora, but her baby had drastically less power in this situation — yes, even less power than a part-time receptionist with a kid.

      Lots of us do our best to be more flexible because we know you have your hands full. We do it even though the thanks we get is all too often a remark about how resentful we must be, or how we couldn’t possibly appreciate What It’s Like Out There. (“You’re obviously not a parent” is a common retort when we point out, say, someone else’s kid being in potentially mortal danger.) We can’t win either.

      We’re not your enemy, and blaming us may be satisfying, but it only takes the focus off the people with actual power the change the situation.

    4. Aaron*

      It’s also odd that lot of people don’t see that Cora *might have* been acting in her child’s best interests. I’m reminded of parents crossing the Mediterranean with babies in tow. Absurdly dangerous, but the alternatives might be worse.
      CPS and Foster care are a risk too. Some people are amazing, others are very much not.

  38. Falling Diphthong*

    OP3, the most bubbly of my medical providers is my dermatologist. Since our visits consist of checking for skin cancer while discussing how any other cancer treatment is going, I have come to really appreciate that one of us is bringing positive energy to the appointment.

    Pretty sure he would be described as “warm, friendly, engaging, enthusiastic” rather than bubbly. Being both a dude and a doctor.

    1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

      My GP is like that, a big ol’ man and I love his personality. But no one would call him bubbly, it’s definitely gendered and should be reserved for cheerleaders and pom-pom girls, if the word has to be used at all. More reserved females get a bum rap, we’re cold and bitchy. Ugh.

  39. Kaiko*

    Part of the issue is with #1 is not only that it happened, but it happened and “everything was fine,” giving Cora the (absolutely mistaken) impression that leaving an infant in a running car alone for several hours is now a viable form of childcare. This is one of those slippy-norm things that is shocking the first time and standard by the tenth time.

    LW, if you were passing by and saw a baby alone in a car in summer, what would you do? If you had no idea of the context or the personalities, how would you handle this? I think you should do that thing. Are there systemic problems with childcare and CPS and PTO and workplace expectations? Yes. Is there a baby alone in a car in the summer? Also yes. Systemic problems do not blunt the fact that there is also an emergency happening.

    2. After 33 years ...*

      + I would also call 911 immediately in this situation. Alert the first responders now, and worry about any possible consequences afterward.
      It’s especially concerning here. Our place has very little experience with the “hot” weather we’re currently having, and we’ve already had issues with animals left in cars this summer. Hopefully that doesn’t happen to anyone’s children.

    3. Attractive Nuisance*

      I think your first paragraph is really important. This is a tension that can be very hard to balance- trying to approach the situation in a way that is pragmatic and nonjudgmental while also making sure everyone (including Cora, coworkers, and management) understands how serious this is.

  40. Cat Lover*

    #1- Respectfully, Alison, I think this is outside of your realm. This needs to be reported every. single. time. Yes, Cora needs help and support. That is not something a coworker can give.

    I’m an EMT that has run child-in-hot-car calls, and they don’t always have a happy ending. Every single one thought that they were doing it “safely”. There is no such thing.

    I appreciate that people in these comments want to help Cora, but who is helping this baby? From the letter, Cora doesn’t seem concerned by her actions. This is also shows an extreme lack of judgement.

    1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

      What in the letter makes you think Cora wasn’t concerned? There’s a few people asserting that here, but I’m not seeing why. If anything, the fact she told her coworkers seems to imply she was recruiting help, doesn’t it? Keeping an eye on the car, covering for her if she needed to run out and check on the kid or change a diaper, etc.

      1. Cat Lover*

        “She left the car running for air flow and temperature control, and she apparently felt this was safe enough since our desks faces large picture windows and she parked right up front where she could “keep an eye on the baby.”

        Justifying leaving a 4 MONTH OLD in a car for 4 HOURS shows a lack of concern for her baby.

        There is no “right way” to leave an infant in a car. Ever. Full stop.

            1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

              So, some compassion is in order. No question that the welfare of the baby is paramount, and as such I would have insisted that she bring the baby inside right away and sort things out from there.

              I don’t like all the vilifying and condemnation of this single mother who yes did an extremely risky thing but yes, lack of concern versus desperation should make a difference. She’s not getting a pass, but y’all have obviously never been in a desperate situation.

              And just to be clear: I agree that there IS NEVER A RIGHT WAY TO LEAVE AN INFANT ALONE IN A CAR!!!!!!!!

              1. Cat Lover*

                I have compassion! But the infant needs people to advocate for them. The baby is ultimately the victim here.

                Also, where was a vilifying them? A lack of concern doesn’t make her a “villian”, but it is dangerous, and, again, a baby locked in a car doesn’t care why they are locked in the car.

      2. Lilo*

        None of those measures are sufficient to make this situation safe. You can use calculators to show how easily this goes very very wrong.

        It was 91 degrees outside where I live yesterday, and I’m in one of the least heat wave-y areas of the country right now. After 20 minutes at 91 degrees, the car can reach 120. That’s deadly.

      3. ecnaseener*

        I think a lot of commenters are picturing Cora mentioning breezily that her kid’s in the car, “no worries I left the AC on.” The “apparently she thought it was safe” comment does sound breezy, but LW heard this secondhand so I think it’s more likely that Cora was very anxious (if not scared out of her mind) and was asking for help.

          1. bamcheeks*

            It’s not being coldhearted, it’s just that Cora being anxious or even checking every half an hour or so, doesn’t negate the danger to the baby. She could absolutely be a wonderful mum in an impossible situation; she could be a wonderful mum with a post-partum mental health problem which means she can’t make safe and responsible decisions; she could be a wonderful mum who hasn’t heard of the asphyxiation risk in car seats; she could be a wonderful mum who was stricken with anxiety the entire time the baby was out there and ran out every twenty minutes to check. None of these things makes it a safe situation. That’s not a lack of compassion for Cora, it’s a recognition that cars are not safe places for babies.

            1. ecnaseener*

              The line of discussion here is specifically Cat Lover (and other comments) saying Cora wasn’t concerned and that makes it even worse. You can disagree that it matters whether she was concerned, but that is simply not the conversation of this particular subthread.

              1. bamcheeks*

                OK, but you also wrote “a lot of commenters are picturing Cora mentioning breezily that her kid’s in the car, “no worries I left the AC on.”” I don’t see that anywhere, and I think that’s a strawman too!

                I think it’s impossible to judge what Cora’s level of concern is from this letter– there are people saying that the fact that she told co-workers about it means she doesn’t seem to think it’s that outrageous, and people who picture her spending the morning on her last nerve knowing that it’s an awful situation and one she’ll never repeat. Either of these is a totally legit read of the letter, and personally I don’t think it’s helpful to characterise either as “likely/less likely” or “charitable/coldhearted” — they are all *possible*, and they don’t preclude sympathy, empathy or understanding for Cora. Like, even if Cora *doesn’t* grasp the seriousness of this and might repeat it, that doesn’t mean she’s a terrible parent or a bad person. I get that “She shows a serious lack of judgment” sounds like a damning condemnation of someone, and often it is, but in a situation where you’re talking about a child in danger you have to treat that as a simple statement of fact and proceed from there rather than giving the person the benefit of the doubt for fear of being unkind.

                Fundamentally, I also believe that judging whether this is a one-off or something that might be repeated is not a layperson’s call to make– in an ideal world, you should absolutely be able to call CPS to do a review and have a trained professional make a judgment about Cora’s state of mind and what support she needs after something like this. I recognise we’re not in that ideal world and whether or not CPS is equipped to do that is another question, but that doesn’t mean I think a layperson can do it adequately either. And I think it’s quite dangerous to assume that the “worst-case scenario”– Cora doesn’t think this is a big deal and might repeat it– should be out of bounds because it’s unkind to Cora.

    2. LawMom*

      I rarely comment. However, I agree with Cat Lover and respectfully disagree with the advice given here. I am sympathetic to working parents (and am one myself) and understand first-hand the childcare struggles that they experience. However, a child left in a vehicle for 4 hours is inexcusable, and I am honestly surprised to see this debated here in the comments. Cora did not leave this baby in the car for a few minutes while telling someone she needed help. 4 hours. One commenter put it best – the worst case scenario in this situation is not Cora losing her job; there is a very real possibility that the baby could have died.

      In my jurisdiction, knowledge of Cora’s actions would trigger a mandatory report to child services and/or law enforcement for anyone who is deemed a mandatory reporter (law enforcement, teachers, medical professionals, and basically anyone else who works with children). I also would argue that anyone who was complicit in Cora’s actions could be held responsible for negligent homicide should something horrible happen.

      1. Cat Lover*

        I would be very interested to see the breakdown of commenters and what line of work they are in, compared to their reaction to #1. It seems that healthcare providers, emergency responders, social workers, etc are all saying “what the hell, report this!”

        1. Missb*

          Well for the record then, I’m an engineer and I’m shocked that everyone’s answer isn’t a default of “call CPS”. Never been a social worker or health care professional.

          1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

            The welfare of the infant is of paramount concern. But that wasn’t my default response, not for this one-time incident. What do folks want CPS to do? Take the baby away because this mother has no support? That’s terrible social policy. Neither adult nor child protective services does much of anything barring egregious, news-worthy abuse.

            It’s possible to simultaneously take decisive action to protect the child and have compassion.

            1. Silly Janet*

              Yes, Friday, exactly. That is what calling CPS is.

              We don’t know if CPS would have taken the baby away. That actually happens way less than we think it does (see an above commenter’s statistic). CPS does many things, including directing struggling families to support services and resources.

              You can do this while having compassion for Cora and situation. Hopefully the company can offer ways for Cora to be flexible- that is compassion.

              This is not a situation where it is iffy if the child was in danger. The child absolutely WAS in dire danger and could have died.

            2. bamcheeks*

              I am not in the US, don’t know how adequate CPS is there, and can’t comment on whether or not this is what they *would* do. But there are a ton of options that ought to be available to them other than “take the baby away”. Here’s what I would expect a good and properly funded child welfare service to do:

              – Arrange an immediate review for Cora to find out whether this is a one-off or whether her baby is in imminent danger
              – Work with Cora to figure out whether she might have post-natal depression, anxiety or psychosis which are affecting her ability to make safe choices. Get her to a doctor/psychiatrist for urgent assessment and care if so.
              – Review the situation in which Cora made this decision– was the belief that she couldn’t call in or bring the baby into work accurate, or decisions made irrationally?
              – Make sure Cora understands the level of danger that leaving a baby in a car for four hours represents.
              – Check Cora’s eligibility for any support services, payments, grants, benefits, emergency childcare options which might help avoid this situation again. Make sure she’s hooked into all the creches and childcare options in her area. Work with her employer to see whether she’s eligible for any kind of emergency leave or statutory leave.

              Does this solve all Cora’s problems? No, probably not, there are massive structural issues with childcare and poverty that CPS can’t solve, and that’s why burnout is so high amongst professionals who work in this area. But it’s a lot more than just “cross your fingers and hope it doesn’t happen again”.

              I’m not a child welfare professional or related to this area. Anyone who actually is will have a much clearer set of steps that CPS ought to take. And I know that child welfare services both in my country and in the US suffer from inadequate funding and systemic prejudices which mean that a white middle-class parent who is struggling is way, way more likely to get this level of support than a Black, Indigenous poor parent. I just want to push back on the idea that anything that doesn’t rise to the level of “remove this baby immediately” isn’t worth calling child services about.

              1. Silly Janet*

                Thank you, Bamcheeks. All of what you listed is what ideally should happen when CPS is called. And it could happen again, which is why CPS should be called even if the baby is safe now.

            3. Oh geez*

              I’m surprised readers here think the child would automatically be taken away and put into foster care. Children are actually, statistically, rarely taken from their parents. It’s a very small percentage of CPS calls that end in foster care. How many times have people lamented after tragedy, “Why didn’t the state DO something if they were called so many times?” it’s because the state isn’t gung-ho to take away children willy-nilly.

              People here are offering downright dangerous advise based on their understanding of literally less than 1% of what CPS does, talking as if it’s 100%.

              1. Liz*

                Agree completely. I work in a CPS adjacent role (attorney) and a very small percentage of cases ever make it to me — most are resolved informally by offering the parent services (homemaking services, substance abuse counseling, food and transportation assistance, etc.) Only if those services fail to solve the problem or the child is in immediate danger is removal/foster care ever even on the table.

              2. Pescadero*

                Umm… last I knew CPS takes kids in about 2.5% of cases nationwide.

                So… your less than 1% is quite a bit off.

            4. braindump*

              CPS helped my single mom find resources for childcare and other services like family mental health after she was incarcerated. You only see the news worthy abuse, not the other services they provide (at least in my area).

        2. YetAnotherAnalyst*

          I think that split may be less about whether people think it’s ok to leave an infant in a car for four hours (it’s not, and I don’t see anyone in the comments claiming that it is), and more about what the line for involving CPS is and wether they’d help or make things worse. I would imagine people in mandatory-reporter jobs necessarily have a different understanding of that line and the potential outcomes. Can you explain where you see that line and what outcome you expect? I think we’re all pretty clear on tje danger of hot cars and/or positional asphyxiation.

          1. Silly Janet*

            The point is Analyst is that it’s not up to the witness or caller to decide that. If a child is in immediate danger, steps need to be taken to get that child out of danger and to ensure they are not placed in danger again. It is CPS’ job to investigate the situation.

            The worse case scenario is that it happens again and this time the child doesn’t survive or has permanent brain damage.

            1. YetAnotherAnalyst*

              Do you consider the child to still be in immediate danger after Cora’s shift has ended and the baby us back under supervision?

                1. pancakes*

                  In other words, you are unable or unwilling to distinguish between immediate danger and theoretical danger (“because I wonder”). That is not a credit to your decision-making skills. It’s a large blind spot.

                2. bamcheeks*

                  @pancakes– not really! When someone has a position of massive responsibility and you’ve seen them do something that makes you doubt they understand and are capable of that level of responsibility, it’s completely normal and reasonable to wonder whether they will do it again.

                  This is about risk, and judging risk. The assumed facts are: “Cora was in a difficult situation and did something that endangered her baby”. Best case scenario: Cora made a horrible decision in a really difficult, one-off situation. She scared herself and hated every minute of it, she has the resources to ensure she’s never in such a terrible situation again and she isn’t. Worst case scenario: Cora made a horrible decision in a situation which may well be repeated, and may make the same horrible decision, and it may go much, much worse next time.

                  There is no way from the letter to judge which is more likely. And neither of them is a charitable or an uncharitable reading, and neither of them is more or less sympathetic to Cora, and neither of them is more or less focussed on structural solutions vs individual ones.

                  Setting aside for a minute the failings of CPS and whether calling them is the right thing to do, I think it’s dangerous to say that considering the worst-case scenario possible is being unkind, uncharitable, coldhearted, a blind spot etc. Both of them are quite reasonable readings of the situation from what’s in the letter AND from LW’s update in the comments. It’s not doing Cora or her baby any favours to assume that she must know that this is not OK and that it was definitely a one-off and everything is fine now.

                  I get that calling CPS may well be a difficult balance of harms. But it’s not unfair or unkind to consider the possibility that Cora might do this again or even do it regularly in that balance of harms calculation.

                3. Just Another Zebra*

                  @pancakes, leaving a baby in a car for 4 hours, regardless of precautions or reasons or circumstances, is an even greater blind spot. This should be reported.

                4. pancakes*

                  Just Another Zebra, in that case the people calling this in will be reporting themselves and their own dangerously poor judgement as well, since they apparently knew the baby was in the car and didn’t make any attempt to bring it inside.

                  Bamcheeks, I think you are glossing over why exactly “might happen again” requires an immediate response from authorities. To say it’s a decision about risk doesn’t actually convey that the baby is presently at risk. To say it might conceivably happen again isn’t itself risk analysis. It’s a statement of fact: it is possible. How possible? I think we agree that we don’t know enough to say. It nonetheless seems quite likely to me that the baby is not presently in immediate danger, and there is room here for a conversation before (and possibly in lieu of) involving authorities.

                5. bamcheeks*

                  @pancakes— I think the difference here is whether you see involving the authorities as punitive or supportive. For me, there’s a gap between what CPS ought to be, and what it is, but if CPS were what it ought to be? I’d be there straight away.

                  I think for me the key thing is that four months is *so young* that “in immediate danger” is — almost not a realistic category? Babies that small are *so* vulnerable— they die in car seats, because there are soft toys in their cots, because there is a gap between the mattress and the side of the cot, because their exhausted parent fell asleep while holding them— like, even with good, loving parents, the ways a baby under six months can die is terrifying. Most of those deaths are, thankfully, pretty rare— because we’ve got incredibly high standards for beds, mattresses, guidance on how long they can be in car seats, not to leave them alone in bouncy chairs or rockers, etc etc. And some of that advice might be excessively cautious, but it needs to be because most parents violate it a bit, somewhere along the way, and you need to make sure the breach doesn’t take you out of the “against the guidance but probably ok” zone and into the danger zone. Immediate danger is like, everywhere.

                  And babies under 6 months don’t give you an early warnig system, which is why if anything’s wrong doctors tend to send you to hospital within a couple of hours. You don’t get much of a “whoops, lesson learned, won’t do that again” with babies the way you do w it h older children.

                  For whatever reason, Cora’s gone way beyond the “not great, but probably fine” zone and into “holy shit”. There is no knowing where else she is doing that. I think that needs urgent and immediate care. Whether she’ll be that from CPS is another matter. Whether she’ll get it from a friendly chat from a co-worker who isn’t that close to her is also of great doubt. But I do agree with people who think this is an urgent, act now situation, because under six months you just don’t get room to play around.

                6. pancakes*

                  By “immediate danger” I mostly meant that the baby isn’t still in the car. I think it’s beyond doubt that mom urgently needs some parenting support, but it’s not clear to me that calling authorities without so much as a single conversation with her (and with the group who were in the office while the baby was in the car!) beforehand is the best way to connect her with it.

              2. Silly Janet*

                Not immediate danger, so no reason to call 911. But potential danger yes, as this could happen again. So CPS should still be called.

          2. Cat Lover*

            It varies by state/county/etc but CPS can assess the situation and help connect parents with resources including care care, food stamps/food security options, mental health resources, etc. If 911 is called, the medics can assess the baby and mother, and also advocate for the baby (as they become the patient).

          3. LawMom*

            There has been a lot of speculation in this thread, but I do see a fair amount of people wanting to excuse or rationalize Cora’s behavior. One comment even suggested that if she was in Cora’s line of sight and Cora had a baby monitor, this wouldn’t be different than leaving her in another room. (!)

            I also think the whole line of conversation about whether CPS or law enforcement would make it worse is entirely speculative as well. Neither we nor the letter writer have any way of fully anticipating those facts nor should that be the analysis here. The relevant facts are that letter writer learned that a baby was left alone in a vehicle for 4 hours. While I agree that there are some cases when whether calling CPS is necessary is a close call, this is not one of them.

            To answer your question about the “line” when a mandated report is triggered whenever someone has sufficient information to suspect child abuse may have occurred. The legal definition of child abuse is lengthy but suffice it to say that if you have reason to know that an adult put a child in a position where harm (physical or mental) is a likely result, either through their own actions or failure to act, that triggers the duty to report.

            On the outcome I expect, I agree with other commenters that removal of the child is not the only outcome but that a qualified child care worker needs to assess the risks and work with Cora to assure this does not happen again.

            1. pancakes*

              Did they? More than one? I saw a number of people wondering whether there was a spare room at the office where the baby might have been put. I haven’t seen anyone say that leaving the baby in the car was just as good as leaving it in a theoretical spare room. The baby was not left in a spare room, and by my reading, everyone agrees that’s a huge problem but people are divided on the solution.

        3. pancakes*

          Where exactly are you getting that information? Be specific how you you recognize emergency responders online, please.

          1. Cat Lover*

            …. It’s in the comments? I’m an EMT, for example. Many other here have said they are in healthcare or in some sort of mandatory reporter position. One commenter said they are married to a former firefighter/EMT who has seen dead infants after being left in hot cars.

            All of your comments seem to be contrarian for the sake of it.

            1. pancakes*

              No, it isn’t contrarianism to say that being married to someone who professionally responds to tragedies isn’t a marker of superior decision-making capabilities or expertise. Likewise to say that people often rely on the appeal to authority fallacy in conversations like these.

        4. hbc*

          Those people are not necessarily the best people to make judgments about the situation. By definition, they see the very worst outcomes, but are not usually up-to-speed on what the statistical likelihood is of the very worst outcomes occurring. It’s like asking divorce lawyers what they think marriages look like.

          Obviously, none of the above is advocating for leaving children in a car. Though my right brain is curious about the actual increased risk in a car with the A/C running in the open and line-of-sight of the child.

          1. bamcheeks*

            I can’t imagine a picture window or a car/carseat design that genuinely lets the infant be in line of sight. Like, my car’s parked outside my window about 5′ in front of the house, and by the time you’ve got the natural reflection of light on the windows there’s no way I could see my 4yo in her upright car seat, never mind a 4mo in a laidback rear-facing one. They’re designed to curve right around a baby in case of impact, and a 4mo doesn’t stick out much on any side.

      2. Silly Janet*

        100%, LawMom. There should be no debate here. Whoever witnesses or hears about something like this needs to call CPS and frankly should also call 911.

        1. pancakes*

          Who exactly is witnessing something like this at the moment? Not the letter writer, from their description.

          1. Silly Janet*

            As a mandated reporter, if I hear about a child being in danger or a possible abuse or neglect situation, even second hand, I am obligated to report it. Not doing so could result in me being arrested or fined and more importantly, in the child being placed in further danger. Many CPS calls are done this way- it’s not always an immediate thing.

            1. pancakes*

              I wasn’t trying to ask how you would handle a situation unlike the one in the letter, and I’m quite sure everyone agrees that mandatory reporters who witness danger or neglect are . . . mandated to report it.

        2. Allonge*

          Whoever witnesses this in the moment should tell Cora to take the child out of the car immediately. Or walk up there and take the child out themselves if that does not yield results.

          Then they can call whoever. Certainly mandated reporters have specific obligations to call.

          1. Allonge*

            ‘Whoever’ in this case being OP and colleagues who know it’s Cora’s kid.

            If it’s a random car on a random street with a random kid, look around in case caretaker is in sight, then call, of course.

      3. Nameless in Customer Service*

        However, a child left in a vehicle for 4 hours is inexcusable, and I am honestly surprised to see this debated here in the comments.

        … is anyone here actually debating whether it’s appropriate to leave a baby in a car for four hours, or is it being assumed that anyone who would not immediately call the absolutely-perfect-police necessarily approves of such dangerous neglect?

  41. anonymous73*

    #2 I think it’s great that you want to help her. And I know tone is difficult in a letter, but your wanting to help comes across as a bit aggressive in the letter. Make the suggestion, let her know you’re available for any further advice and then step back and let her handle it. “If you’re interested, I think you may be suited to take on the admin duties now that Jane is leaving. You should speak to Martha if you want to pursue that. Let me know if I can help in any way.”
    #4 if waiting on medical insurance is a deal breaker for you, then it’s perfectly acceptable to bring it up in a phone screen. Most reasonable people (emphasis on reasonable) will appreciate you not wasting more time than is necessary if you’re not on the same page about something significant (like salary, commute, etc.). And I’m not sure if this is the norm or not, but I’ve never worked for a company where you received health insurance immediately on your first day (unless you start on the first of the month). IME it usually starts on the 1st of the following month after your start date, so you may want to look into alternatives regardless of this job or any other in the future.

    1. LW 4*

      My current job, where I have been for four years, offered coverage retroactive to the first of the month I started. Prior to that, I worked as a freelance unionized professional where I qualified for coverage at the same time I came off of my parents’ insurance, so this is new to me. The waiting period was a huge surprise.

    2. OP2*

      That’s part of what I was worried about (also bc of my personality, where I’m very blunt and “matter of fact” which comes as aggressive often). But that you, that’s a good thing to keep in mind.

      1. CoveredinBees*

        I think that, in this case, aggressive would be more along the lines of trying to convince her if she declines after you mention it or is wishy washy about it and doesn’t follow up.

        I would also put it out there that some people prefer “boring” jobs. I had a boring job when there was a lot of other stuff, both positive and negative, going on in my life so it was great to not feel drained at the end of the day. In fact, I’m keeping an eye out for a “boring” job right now. I’m in grad school and part-time roles in my field are very uncommon. So, I’m looking for something that pays but let’s me focus my energy on my studies and family. I say this because I know it can be frustrating when someone declines your help so I wanted to offer a perspective on why she might not be interested. I don’t think it would be a good idea to ask her why, if she isn’t interested.

        1. OP2*

          Agree. Part of my concern in saying something was inadvertently implying that I think she should want something more/different, which I don’t think at all! She has expressed that she’s looking for other things to keep her busy, and she’s also very young/just starting out, so my impression is that she’s still exploring what her career path will be.

          But, to be clear, I do not at all think there is any issue with being “just” a receptionist. It can be a great role for a dependable, professional person with excellent people skills. And, depending on the office/environment, can range from fast paced and demanding (ideal for some people) to extremely relaxed with significant downtime (ideal for others).

          Thank you for the thoughts, and I will definitely be cognizant of the need to respect her response. My desire is to help her out, which to me means helping her move in a direction she wants to go (if that’s where she wants to go) – but not trying to convince her of the direction I think she should go. If that makes sense.

  42. Missb*

    For #1, I really and truly don’t understand folks who want to offer Cora help rather than calling CPS.

    Leaving an infant in a car for four hours is clear neglect. It is *dangerous* for the baby. No concern for Cora should override those facts. Intervention by folks whose job it is to make sure the baby is safe is the only logical choice here.

    I get that it blows up Cora’s life, but folks should consider that there are likely other instances where Cora has made poor decisions for her infant. She needs qualified help. And the baby needs to be safe. No coworker can provide that. How will the OP feel if they find out that the baby died because Cora left her baby in a car seat in the car elsewhere for hours?

      1. pancakes*

        People who disagree with you share that sentiment about the baby. The sentiment itself is not evidence of superior decision-making.

          1. Allonge*

            Why is ‘call CPS and call it a day’ more tangible than ‘talk to Cora, explain what a horrible idea this was, talk to boss to see if there is any support to be given from job AND consider calling CPS’?

            1. Cat Lover*

              Realistically, do both. But Alison’s advice isn’t to call CPS (or even think about it) and that’s what people are pushing back on. CPS or equivalent agency must be involved somehow.

              1. Ask a Manager* Post author

                No, absolutely not. Please read the post again. My advice is talk to Cora directly before deciding, not just make a CPS call about something she heard about secondhand without talking to her first.

                1. Cat Lover*

                  “I am hesitant to tell you to contact child services if there are any other ways to help Cora and her baby; the foster care system often makes things worse rather than better for kids.”
                  Yeah…. So, no. It doesn’t necessarily have to to CPS (since many commenters paint them as the boogeyman even though they routinely connect people with services)- there are many county/state or even national hotlines and agencies that can help. But trying to navigate this without some professional help has tragedy written all over this.

                  The LW clarified below that the mom is white/white-passing, and that LW thinks she is a dire financial situation. Also, the company is national and LW and manager have no control over policies. Please, LW, make the call.

                  There’s been a couple letters where the advice was to call RAINN, and my advice is similar here.

                2. Ask a Manager* Post author

                  From the post: “‘I’d encourage you to talk with her first and get a better understanding of the situation before making that call.”

              2. Allonge*

                Alison wrote ‘I’d encourage you to talk with her first and get a better understanding of the situation before making that call.’

                This does not mean not to call. It’s to get some information directly from Cora instead of the secondhand things OP got from the other coworkers. Before making the call.

              1. Allonge*

                But why would you need to be a trained social worker to say to a colleague: Cora, I heard you left [baby] in the car – I wanted to mention that this is really dangerous and I hope you never do this again. Babies cannot tolerate the heat etc.

                Or to talk to their boss and say: Michaela, Cora left her baby in the car in front of our building rather than bring her in and our **** co-receptionists just watched this happen. Am I right in thinking that you would prefer that baby is at the reception rather than in mortal danger if a similar calamity arises? Could you please make this clear to Cora and the rest of the receptionists? Also that if they ever see a car with baby sans adult in our parking, they should call 911 immediately?

    2. Allonge*

      I think people who focus on offering Cora help (which, by the way, is all about getting her and her child to a place where this is not repeated, nobody is talking about a shopping trip as a reward for her) have doubts about how soon and with which efficiency ‘the people whose job it is to make sure the baby is safe’ will show up, intervene, and actually make sure baby is safe.

      This is not doubting the good intentions of CPS staff by the way! I suspect they have very limited options, the resources they can connect Cora with are probably also limited and what they can offer is not an immediate ‘baby is now magically forever safe’ solution.

      So it’s not out of the question that OP and especially the manager could provide a much more meaningful intervention. Or that both can happen at the same time.

    3. Come on people.*

      I have many memories as a child living in povery, having to sit quietly in my parent’s workplace and other ad-hoc arrangements. Cora had options. Leaving an infant in the car is never the only option. It’s borderline infantilizing of underserved populations to act like she had no other options and we shouldn’t pretend she did just because she might be poor.

      1. pancakes*

        She didn’t write in, though, so how about we continue talking about the options her coworkers have? Having a conversation with her, for example, before calling on authorities to have a conversation with her.

        1. Come on people.*

          It’s very relevant to the options that her coworkers have that they are (falsely) being told again and again in the comments that their only place here is to empathetically place their hand on the heart and nod about outright child neglect.

          1. pancakes*

            Eh? I haven’t seen anyone saying that, and obviously the role of bystanders here is a matter of opinion, not a fact that can be deemed true or false. Treating other peoples opinions as facts is not an extra way to be dismissive of those opinions; it’s misdirection. I see you want to be protective of the coworkers but I also don’t see any particular reason to believe they’re as suggestible as you seem to want to make them out to be.

  43. a tester, not a developer*

    LW#4, a lot of the more expensive drugs (e.g. biologics for things like IBD) have patient assistance programs that should be able to help you out for the short term. Your specialist may also be able to figure something out – my guy keeps some drugs on hand for patients in your type of situation.

  44. Silly Janet*

    Regarding # 1, I am a mandated reporter. Conjecturing about why Cora did it is not the point. The point is there is a baby in a car that could have died in a number of ways. I am legally obligated to call CPS, and would have whether I was a mandated reporter or not. And they would have likely sent the police and paramedics.

    During my mandated reporter trainings as a childcare worker in California, the trainer said something that stuck with me. She said the mandated reporter is not supposed to be the judges and juries. If we see something that looks like abuse or neglect- and this situation definitely is neglect- we are to make the call. The professionals at the other end are the ones who make the judgements.

    Now can some situations go badly for the parent when CPS is called? For sure. But when a child’s life is at risk, that is not something that should be debated. Several commenters upthread mention that CPS is very misunderstood. They don’t just take children away without a thorough investigation. They also provide and refer families to resources. I’m not saying it can’t go poorly- it can! But it’s not up to decide that.

    Also as some other commenters said, what is up with the coworkers?? Not doing anything and then gossiping about her is just vile.

    LW1, you definitely did the right thing by telling her supervisor, and hopefully they can offer her some help and resources so this doesn’t happen again. But please, do not hesitate in calling CPS and maybe even 911 next time.

    1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

      Or just tell coworker to bring the baby inside. No need to go nuclear right away.

      1. Silly Janet*

        Calling CPS isn’t “going nuclear.” It’s doing the right and responsible thing.

        If the coworker had told me her baby was in the car or I had seen it, I would have done both- told her to bring the baby inside (and heck, I would have offered to watch the baby) and also called CPS. When a child is in danger, you cannot hesitate! The child could have easily died which would have been a horribly devastating situation. And imagine if you were the person who could have stopped it?

        1. Allonge*

          Sure, but the baby is not in the car right now (or when OP was writing). That makes time for some thinking on what is best for everyone. Most likely it will involve providing assistance to Cora.

        2. londonedit*

          I think it would have been ‘going nuclear’ for the OP or a co-worker to call the authorities without even talking to Cora. I have no idea why her other co-workers wouldn’t have immediately told Cora to bring the baby indoors, and then immediately gone to the manager and asked whether anything could be done so that Cora could work and look after the baby as she was having a childcare emergency. They should have at the very least a) got the baby out of the car ASAP and b) tried to give Cora some sort of support. I can’t imagine just calling CPS or the emergency services without even saying to Cora ‘look, if you won’t get the baby out of the car then we’re going to have to call someone and report this’. It’s not as if they didn’t know who the baby belonged to – Cora was right there and yet the co-workers were happy to just let the baby stay in the car and then gossip about it afterwards?!

          1. Silly Janet*

            I agree that the coworkers were absolutely horrid up in this situation.

            Yes, I agree that they should have helped her get the baby out of the car and helped her. But as a mandated reporter having witnessed that, even after the fact, I would still have to call. As a mandated reporter you are legally obligated to report something as soon as you hear about it.

            This is a much more mild example, but at a preschool I worked at many years ago we had a child with a really bad biting problem. We were working with the parents to help the child and themselves. The parents dropped off their child in the morning and said that he bit them last night, and they made him eat hot pepper sauce. We told them we had to call CPS, and we did (and no, the child was not taken away. I think CPS just called and talked to them).

            The thing is, this woman could do it again somewhere else, and maybe no one will be there to get the baby out of the car.

            In terms of supporting Cora, the coworker absolutely can reach out and offer support or suggestions, and ideally the company will do that as well.

            You can report the situation and be compassionate. But when a child’s life is put in danger like this, it very well could happen again. You just can’t leave that up to chance.

          2. bamcheeks*

            I have no idea why her other co-workers wouldn’t have immediately told Cora to bring the baby indoors

            I think this is exactly what I would expect anyone over the age of about 23 to do. I definitely feel like 18-22 I wouldn’t have had enough awareness of child safety, confidence, decisiveness etc to do this if someone I perceived as more authoritative than me told me it was fine. And I would have perceived any woman who was an actual mum herself, regardless of her age, as authoritative. So if Cora told me that she was worried but she thought it would be OK, I wouldn’t have gone against that.

            Not all 18-22 year olds, by any means– I know plenty of 18 year olds, particularly ones who had younger siblings or elder sisters with their own babies who would have known that. But as a young adult without much wider experience of childcare or child safety I wouldn’t.

        3. Is it Friday? YAY!*

          Silly Janet, it’s going nuclear because bringing the baby in and addressing the situation with Cora may well resolve it, whereas calling CPS is often just performative.

          Where I live, CPS is understaffed and underfunded and children who have been reported to the system have had very bad outcomes (like being murdered by their parents). I’m black, and institutions often deal with minorities much harsher than others.

          Cora needs to be told in no uncertain terms that she can never do what she did again. If she does, away from the workplace, and someone does call 911, she will have to deal with the consequences.

          As I said before, I would call if I saw a child locked in an unattended vehicle, whether it was running or not. But I would be a stranger intervening, not a coworker jumping to what I will again call the nuclear option for a first offense. Neither the mother nor the baby would be helped by this.

          I’ll say it again…compassion AND action are in order.

          1. Silly Janet*

            I feel what I am saying is compassion and action.

            I do agree that the baby should have been taken in immediately and the situation dealt with, as you say. But my thought is that this may not be the first time this baby was put in danger, and unfortunately it may not be the last. Calling CPS or social services will ensure that someone follows up with Cora and that she hopefully gets the support she needs. Yes, some CPSs are very understaffed and underfunded, and that is unfortunate. But I feel we cannot base a judgement call on that. And like I and others have said above, it’s not our place to decide what is best. It is the people who are trained to deal with situations like this.

            I am aware of how dealing with agencies deal with minorities in much more harsh and unjust ways, and trust me, I am not okay with it. If it was a less severe case, I can see not calling it in. But a child’s life was in danger in this case, and it could be again. It’s just not worth questioning it.

  45. Is it Friday? YAY!*

    LW#1, I sympathize with you.

    Have a talk with your coworker, letting her know in no uncertain cars that leaving a child in the car is not acceptable, and educate her on the risks of doing so. Advise her to contact all the charitable organizations and houses of worship in her area for assistance with emergency child care, or even the local high school and colleges. In my area there are bulletin boards at the local grocery stores where she can post a notice that she is seeking backup child care, and there may be postings from those offering this service.

    I wouldn’t recommend calling CPS at this juncture. It will add a layer of stress and complexity to her life that is already stretched to the breaking point, likely without resolving the problem. Coworker is risking CPS contact though by leaving a baby in the car, running or not. If I ever saw such a thing, I would call for assistance, I don’t know if the AC is on or working. Few areas are safe enough to leave car keys in the ignition unattended.

    The most important thing is the safety of the child. On the day in question, coworker should have been instructed to bring the baby inside, and then granted paid time off to do the research I outlined above.

    Best of luck to you and to her. I was a single parent so I know how hard it is. The USA really does not support working parents, making forced birth all the more frightening.

  46. LilPinkSock*

    LW3–No, “bubbly” shouldn’t be in a job description, partly because it is pretty gendered (although I have seen some men described as such), and partly because there are just better qualifiers to describe what the role needs.

    I will say, though, as a person proud to have a bubbly personality…we’re not stupid, naive, or unprofessional.

    1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

      When bubbly just means outgoing, sure. It doesn’t have to be a synonym for airhead. It’s just not a good descriptor though because a level of vacuousness is implied.

  47. Still too terrified*

    #4 do you have health insurance now? If so, you can continue your coverage via COBRA to cover the gap before your new insurance starts.

    1. DOES YOUR WIFE KNOW, TIM???*

      As the Public Health Emergency period was just extended, there may be a way to get the COBRA premium waived or reduced as well.

  48. DOES YOUR WIFE KNOW, TIM???*

    For LW 1:
    Do you have any social services resources you can call before CPS? Something for families and children, or young children? There may be better options and resources besides CPS.

    LW 3:
    The term bubbly personality is grating to read. It definitely is gendered language and it always seems to be in ads looking for nurses or med techs.

    LW 4:
    That sounds like a policy set by the company with their health insurance carrier. They (the company) decided to have that two month waiting period, usually as a way to screen out high risk or high usage candidates of the health plan. If they cannot amend the rule or make the change, I’d call it a deal breaker and move on.

  49. Macaroni Penguin*

    Hey OP1, are there any Children’s Cottages in your city? Where I am (big city in Canada) we have a number of social servicy type free emergency day cares. Where the need exists, parents can drop off their kid for a few hours (no cost) at a licensed daycare facility. Maybe that or something like a social services children’s cottage exists in your area and is an option for Cora.

    I must say, your story gives me the chills. Leaving a child in a car seat for hours (!), in a car (!!) during the summer (!!!!!!) is NOT safe. If your manager can’t send Cora home (to work?) can the baby hang out in an office or break room? It’s not a long term solution, but it’s better than the baby possibly dying in the parking lot.

    1. top five???*

      lol what that’s amazing and almost certainly doesn’t exist where these people are (I’m betting it’s the U.S. but certainly could be wrong)
      Oh Canada! ❤️❤️❤️

    2. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

      That would be such an amazing service, but except during early COVID in NYC for the kids of essential workers, I have never heard of system like that in the US. Doesn’t mean there isn’t one somewhere, but definitely not a standard thing

      1. CoveredinBees*

        We might have had it but Nixon vetoed an act that would set up universal(-ish) daycares because women should be at home raising their children and that it sounded too Communist. It was the Comprehensive Child Development Act (1971) if you’re curious. I only learned this a few years ago and was furious for days.

  50. BorisTheGrump*

    The tone and sensitivity of Alison’s advice in #1 is one of the reasons I read this blog so regularly. Thank you for being so compassionate, so caring, so realistic about the world we live in and its flawed systems, so non-punitive. Thank you for being a foster parent. Just, thank you

    1. bryeny*

      Hear, hear! Was especially interested, Alison, to learn that you’re foster parenting. Would love to know more about that. The traits that help you make this site so good will also make you a wonderful foster mom.

  51. KnittyKnerd*

    The number of commenters here who are not only ignoring but blatantly arguing against the reality that CPS/cops make things fundamentally *worse* for BIPOC/poor/disabled/queer family is horrifying but unsurprising.

    2. top five???*

      And that’s on society. A person *should* be able to call for emergency help and be confident that “help” won’t make the situation worse, but you have to consider the reality.
      Like, if I’m brutally assaulted, I’d like to be able to call someone to try to make sure that person won’t assault someone else, but the reality is that if I call the police after the fact, they’re statistically unlikely to actually find the guy who did it, and there’s a good chance they’ll use it to make the lives of innocent people worse, either immediately by harassing people who don’t even fit the description, or later by lobbying for policies such as stop and frisk.

    3. braindump*

      Children of BIPOC/poor/disabled/queer people don’t deserve to be left in cars, either. We don’t know if Cora is under any of those labels. The worst outcome is a dead child, not a split family.

      1. pancakes*

        This type of framing is part of the problem. There’s a narrative backdrop in many of these comments that seems to be, “The more I call on authorities, the more I care about the well-being of the people I’m calling them on; it’s a measure of how seriously I take the situation.” That isn’t lucid or pragmatic thinking, it’s extremely muddled and self-regarding. Another narrative is, “To a caring person, there’s no difference between immediate danger and theoretical danger. Treating all dangers as immediate is a measure of seriousness.” That is muddled as well, and can be dangerous.

      2. Student*

        THIS, 100x times. Cora put her child at very high risk of death. Infant hot-car deaths happen very quickly, and they are horrific. The risk of Cora having a downright bad time dealing with CPS is real, but is not outweighed by the risk she put her child in.

        1. Starbuck*

          Where? I’ve crtl+f’d various words and nothing is pointing to a comment by LW1.

      4. kupo!*

        This really sums it up, doesn’t it. I feel like people arguing against calling in authorities are considering the potential for abuse and trauma if everything goes wrong as worse than the baby dying.

    4. Minimal Pear*

      Yes! I’m much less concerned about Cora’s baby being taken away immediately and much more concerned about her getting trapped in an endless cycle of needing to go to appointments and classes, but having to miss work for them, so then making less money, so then she can’t pay the bills, etc etc. It doesn’t need to be that exact series of events, but something like that. I read a great article recently in ProPublica about exactly this kind of thing.

      1. Student*

        Being in a position where you aren’t able to care for a child properly, due to poverty, is terribly sad and a horrible indictment of our social situation – but ignoring the situation and walking away from it doesn’t help at all. CPS at least has a chance to help; CPS might only help them partially. This baby was placed in danger by Cora. Looking the other way helps Cora at the baby’s expense.

        I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that any parent of a baby that died in a car really wishes they could go back in time and fight with CPS in place of burying their kid.

        2. KnittyKnerd*

          Absolutely no one is suggesting just ignoring the situation and that’s a disingenuous argument that’s feeds into the problem instead of solving it.

    6. EmRo*

      And at the other end of the scale, not calling CPS and trying to offer solutions one on one only serves to enable neglect and abuse in many situations. Neglect and abuse thrive in secrecy—which is maintained every time someone sees something but chooses to try offering help or having a conversation instead reporting to CPS. It is very tough to balance these two somewhat opposing realities. At the end of the day, in this particular case, I absolutely believe the child endangerment was severe enough to warrant reporting the incident.

  52. Vistaloopy*

    OP #4: You can certainly try to negotiate this! My husband just negotiated an offer for a job that initially offered health insurance starting after 90 days, and he asked if it could start day 1 instead so we would not have a gap. They agreed with no problem! So it’s worth an ask!

  53. YB*

    #3: I once worked for an organization where the CEO was an extremely tall, tough, intimidating young woman of stern and stoic temperament (I was terrified of her), and they replaced her with a tiny, meek older man whose technical skills were strong, but who had no management skills or experience and absolutely no charisma or personality or…pulse. Damned if the board didn’t respond to this transition with a press release backhandedly complimenting the woman on her “bubbly personality”, but also expressing relief that they found a replacement who was a “strong leader” with a “natural executive presence”.

  54. sleepy*

    Regardless of sensational outlying reports – Social Services workers, especially those who work with children, are not evil or mindless government drones. They are hard working, dedicated people who often see terrible things and sometimes need to make tough choices in the interest of the child.

  55. A Simple Narwhal*

    For #1, if the boss is truly horrified and wants to make a difference, he should advocate for the office offering childcare benefits/subsidies. Both my and my husband’s company offers discounts through Bright Horizons, which offers child care, elder care, and back up care for situations just like the one Cora found herself in. (They apparently also offer more services but I’ve never used them, my main knowledge of them is related to their backup last minute care options.)

  56. penny dreadful analyzer*

    it would be a little different in that the people saying you don’t have to wait to see specialists under private health insurance in the US would be factually wrong, whereas the people observing that the US’ private healthcare system leaves people to die on the regs are at least factually correct, even if that’s not a useful fact to reiterate in this comments section

  57. Anon this time*

    I have to say I am horrified by your answer Allison to number 1 and it is way outside your lane and you should never have answered it.
    I am a mandated reporter by profession and my husband was a firefighter EMT for 15 years. Until you’ve had to hand back the swollen bleeding peeling dead body of a baby to its parents from dying in heat after being left in a car you have zero room to say the op should talk to Cora rather than calling cps or 911. Until you know what it is like to know a baby cooked to death, in horrific pain while a parent ran and errand or got busy with work you have zero right to answer this question.

    Tough times or not, a shelter with a living baby is better than a home with a dead baby. No lights with a living baby is better than no lights with a dead baby. It is never ever ever safe to leave a baby in a car in the heat ever and it is never okay. Just because you’re desperate doesn’t give you the right to endanger the life of a child or make terrible decisions. There’s no denying it sucks that we live in the world or someone has to make these choices, but there is clearly a right choice to make and it is never leaving a child in a hot car or ignoring it. I’m all for the OP doing everything she can to advocate for better paid leave and time off at her work, but that doesn’t take away the fact that this mother could’ve killed her child and there is no excuse or reason good enough in world to justify her choice.

    3. heretoday*

      Agreed. The OP should imagine how she will feel if her conversation with the mom goes nowhere and the baby dies in a hot car the next week when it could have been prevented

      1. Allonge*

        If the conversation with Cora goes nowhere, OP can still call CPS (and yeah, should). OP can also call CPS if the conversation with Cora goes somewhere, actually.

    4. mom of 2*

      No one thinks this was safe or OK, that’s a straw man. But the situation is over, OP wasn’t there for it and the question is what to do now. The post didn’t say don’t call, it said talk with her first before you decide. You take issue with the suggestion that OP talk to Cora before deciding if she needs to call CPS?

    5. BeadsNotBees*

      This is advice is so dangerous and so upsetting. Cora was desperate, sure- but no matter how desperate you are, you CANNOT make choices that literally could kill your baby. Full stop.

      Making sweeping statements about the Foster Care system and CPS – implying that being in Foster Care is somehow more harmful than what Cora did- is also just incredibly irresponsible and disappointing. We are talking about ignoring the obvious, literal neglect of a child because of some hypothetical (and overblown) future risk that the child MAY be neglected/abused in the Foster Care system.

      If you ever see a baby alone/unattended in a car, in public, etc. you call 911. If you even SUSPECT a child is in danger or has been put in danger, report it so someone with actual experience and credentials can investigate it. Every person in that office that knew that baby was in that car and did nothing is awful and negligent.

      You should have never answered this question. If you were hellbent on answering it, you should have at least consulted an actual Social Worker or person who works in Child Welfare.

  58. Observer*

    I’m going to disagree with Allison- you cannot not call CPS. Don’t get me wrong. I have a ton of sympathy for Cora, but no matter what story she tells you, she quite literally put the child’s life at risk.

    Having said that, I do agree with the other suggestions that Allison made. And I would add something else. Your workplace clearly has zero support for parents (and I would suspect for anyone who has any sort of out of work issue.) Which leads me to suspect that he might fire Cora over this. Which is obviously not the outcome you are looking for. So in addition to lobbying for support, please lobby for this not result in Cora’s firing, and also some clarification of leave policies in emergency situations. Like, if you get into trouble unless you call 4 hours in advance, that’s very bad. It’s bad for everyone, to be honest, so if there are bad policies in place that you can get changed, it’s a win for everyone.

    1. bamcheeks*

      Your workplace clearly has zero support for parents

      This is extremely likely, but it’s also possible that the workplace policies are good, and that calling in and still getting paid was an option for Cora, but she’s not in a state to assess the situation and make rational decisions. I mean, her baby is four months old– she’s still in the prime risk period for all sorts of postpartum mental health problems, never mind the more ordinary ones caused by sleep deprivation.

      That the company’s support for parents is crap is a pretty reasonable assumption just because lots are, but it’s not the ONLY possibility.

      1. Observer*

        Given that there were two other people in the office who knew about it and were NOT in the post-partum stage, it’s just not possible to believe that there is decent support.

        It could be that there are decent policies and these two people are just terrible, true. But something is very, very wrong in that office.

    2. Attractive Nuisance*

      Clearly the system has failed Cora and her baby. I think there is a lot that the coworkers and the company could potentially do to help. But if the company won’t change its policies, or if Cora is not receptive, I’m not sure who has the power and ability to enact change in this situation other than CPS.

    3. Princex Of Hyrule*

      +100. I can’t imagine leaving a baby in a car for any stretch of time. I grew up in Arizona and every single summer, there are multiple infant and small child deaths from parents who are just going into the store for a few minutes. Four hours???? My god. CPS needs to be called. This *cannot* be allowed to happen again.

  59. Artemesia*

    LOL So much of this is myth. US pharma counts a lot of non research as ‘research’ in pushing this myth and spends many times on advertising what they spend on research. Most of the important research breakthroughs have been funded by government which then lets private companies reap the profits.

    US health care is expensive because the goal is huge profits for insurance companies, medical providers, pharma.

  60. A Pound of Obscure*

    #4. I worked for a few (not-for-profit) health insurance organizations for a decade. If the company is large, there’s a good chance they are self-insured and might be able to waive the enrollment waiting period. But I wouldn’t count on it. If they purchase their group health insurance commercially, they won’t be able to change the eligibility rules for you. It’s in their contract with the insurer and all new hires have to be treated the same. However, if it’s a matter of you taking or not taking the job, they could perhaps provide a kind of “signing bonus” to help you pay for an interim policy.

  61. Observer*

    #3 – Yes, it’s a highly gendered term. And that alone makes it inappropriate. But also, it’s a very, very stupid idea. Even in medical offices where the services are technically “elective”, and certainly not life threatening, people may really not want a “bubbly” persona to interact with. And I’m not necessarily talking about extroverts.

    Even in these types of medical care (especially anything that’s not purely cosmetic), there are a lot of stressors going on. And people tend to want to focus on what’s going to make whatever it is better, maybe on the risk vs possible benefits, etc. Bubbliness is unhelpful at best and actively annoying at worst.

    1. CoveredinBees*

      It can also make serious or sad news very difficult to discuss. I had a colleague whom I would describe as very peppy and bubbly. We worked cases of people if very difficult situations and hearing her talk about clients’ cases was often unnerving. I know that generally doctors give bad news but dealing with anything around health, I’d rather not have the bubbly.

    2. OP3*

      See, I think your concluding sentence is quite subjective.
      I’m reflecting on my friend who recently had some extensive liposculpting which necessitated numerous, very painful and messy lymphatic drainage massages in the weeks following the surgery. Her favourite massage therapist, who she always looked forward to seeing, was “the bubbly one”. The bubbly one was always so happy to see her, always gave her a little victory dance afterwards and always had enthusiastic, encouraging words for her – she just made the recovery process that bit less horrible for my friend, generally.
      Personally, I think that’s why this can be a thoughy because for certain situations and personality types (it is subjective, though), having a “bubbly person” around you can add a bit of value.

  62. Secretariat*

    OP #1 here! I probably can’t interact here as much as I’d like to because I have my own littles to care for today. But just to address a few things:

    Cora is white or at least appears so.
    We live in the US.
    Our place of work is a national one, so unfortunately our manager can’t do much if anything to change policies and advocate for paid family leave or whatever.

    I would love to talk to Cora about this but some of the commenters have rightly pointed out that she’ll likely be defensive. Cora is often prickly and I get the sense she isn’t my number 1 fan to begin with, but I suppose I could be wrong and that could just be her general pricklyness.

    I think what I’ll do is talk to the rest of the team to make sure they understand the seriousness of what she did (I’m still horrified they didn’t say anything…) and suggest that if something like that ever happens again that she just bring the baby inside. If she can’t afford the time off I understand that and would have no problem accommodating her having the baby around and taking more breaks to tend the baby. And I would never “rat her out” for bringing the baby if that’s the only good option. I can’t speak for my coworkers though. It’s not the least toxic place I’ve ever worked…

    1. Fazbear*

      Carolyn Hax often recommends Childhelp, 1-800-4-A-CHILD. It’s a nonprofit for the prevention of child abuse. They can help you understand your options before calling CPS.

      2. Nameless in Customer Service*

        This is the single most useful comment in this discussion. I didn’t know this existed — thank you for posting it.

      3. KoiFeeder*

        I did not know this resource existed, but I’m very glad you posted it! I know what I’m donating to the next time I get some pocket money.

      4. Kira*

        Thank you for this helpful response! My goodness it’s been exhausting reading the comments insisting on contacting CPS, handwaving over the gross abuses perpetuated *by* CPS, and framing things as if the only other alternative is giving Cora a stern talking-to and hoping she doesn’t do it again. Contacting CPS and washing your hands of it is a convenient proxy for actually making sure Cora gets help, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good solution. Making it clear that this can never happen again and putting her in touch with *actual resources* would be helping. At the very least OP should know what CPS is like in her jurisdiction. People have cited national statistics but failed to include the critical factors of location, race, and socioeconomic background.

    2. Attractive Nuisance*

      I think you should tell Cora that you want to support her and are willing to be flexible to accommodate her. It sounds like she’s making choices based on the assumption that she has no support. She’s probably prickly because she is stressed and feels judged and defensive. Since you don’t have a great relationship with her, she probably does not see you as a potential ally. If you talk to the rest of the team without talking to her directly, she might feel even more of a need to hide. It’s important to say things out loud in clear language and I think you need to tell her that you support her and that you will do whatever needs to be done for her to not leave her baby in a car again.

    3. Gyne*

      Thank you for participating in the comments! I’m reposting one I made above in another thread – speaking from a mandated reporter perspective, calling CPS is not something sneakily done behind someone’s back. We are taught to involve the patient in the process. Ideally you make the call with them present. I do think a call to CPS is in order based on the letter above, but if you go that route you should have a conversation with Cora about it first. Sorry, it sucks, but you’ve got to do the hard thing.

      And I guess to bring this back to a work perspective… this shows astonishingly poor judgement on the part of both Cora and your staff. IF this is even true (is it possible your staff were exaggerating because they dislike Cora? Because it’s really callous to know a four month old baby is sitting alone in a car for four hours and just shrug and say, “eh poor choice but not my problem”), how is their judgement otherwise?

    4. Nameless in Customer Service*

      All good luck with both sifting this advice and talking to everyone involved. And hug your wee ones.

    5. Observer*

      so unfortunately our manager can’t do much if anything to change policies and advocate for paid family leave or whatever.

      But he probably doesn’t have to fire her, and also probably can find out if there are any resources the company can help with.

      I think what I’ll do is talk to the rest of the team to make sure they understand the seriousness of what she did

      That’s certainly a good starting point.

      If she can’t afford the time off I understand that and would have no problem accommodating her having the baby around and taking more breaks to tend the baby. And I would never “rat her out” for bringing the baby if that’s the only good option.

      Thanks for being a decent human being. I’m sorry that it has to be said. But, thank you.

    1. Beany*

      This is a top-level comment (i.e. not replying to anyone else), so it’s not obvious which of the letters you’re commenting on.

  64. ABCYaBye*

    LW1 – Talk to Cora. Talk to your management. In that order. What she did was hugely problematic (I assume she knows and understands that) and probably (assuming again) done only out of extreme desperation. But it IS a huge problem. It would be extremely helpful to help figure out a solution so this doesn’t ever happen again. What does Cora need and where are there areas she can look for help?

    We can all agree that the choice was wrong to leave the child in the car. That goes without saying. The best course of action is to determine, in advance, how to proceed if emergency child care isn’t available in the future. If Cora needs to call out because of a child care issue and management is supportive of her or if she can bring the child in to the safety of the office, that might be all she needs to hear. I hope management values her as an employee enough to find a work around. That might lift a huge weight off of her.

    1. Fazbear*

      Carolyn Hax often recommends Childhelp, 1-800-4-A-CHILD. It’s a nonprofit for the prevention of child abuse. They can help you understand your options before calling CPS.

      1. Veryanon*

        I am haunted by this letter and I hope LW can find a way to support Cora in making a better choice. I don’t want to read another story about a baby dying in a hot car.

  65. Aunt Teen Foster*

    the foster care system often makes things worse rather than better for kids

    Please remove this from your answer. This is a terrible stereotype that can lead to the death of children and makes people afraid to report escalating abuse.

    Please remember as a teen foster parent you are only seeing the struggling foster care side, and hearing the parents and teens side of the story. Even if CPS shared with you why the children were taken, and they probably didn’t, it’s not the full extent of the abuse.

    If you were to listen to my teen nephew and his mom, you’d absolutely believe foster care made it worse, and they snatched her kids out of thin air for one DUI. But that’s not what happened. After having witnessed the escalating levels of physical and mental abuse heaped onto my nehphew, and how warped and wrong his memories of those events I witnessed are, I will never forget that CPS saves children’s lives even if it comes with its own baggage and irritation. I don’t doubt death was a possible future for my nephew during that time if the State hadn’t stepped in and removed him from the situation and given my sister the time and kick in the pants she needed to leave her DV situation. Even as an adult with a few years of psychology under my belt, I can struggle to wade through the lies and gaslighting heaped onto that timeframe from everyone in my family. You as an outsider who didn’t witness can never really know whether CPS helped or hurt your foster kids. Please remember and accept that you will never have all the facts as a foster parent and that the children you are watching after may not even remember their own abuse correctly.

    1. Anon for this*

      +1. This could also come back on you since you are a foster parent. Please remove this language to avoid stereotypes and to protect yourself.

    2. DV Survivor*

      She doesn’t need to remove this from her answer, nor will it cause her problems as a foster parent. Many, many, many foster parents are rightfully critical of this system. She is not promoting stereotypes, she is speaking realistically and truthfully.

      Also, how DARE you say “The kick in the pants she needed to leave her domestic violence situation”. Victims of abuse have many reasons for being unable to escape, and most try to leave 8 times before they are finally successful. THAT is promoting harmful stereotypes that rather than blame the abuser, call women “weak” for “choosing to stay”. If my advocate had told me that all I needed was a “kick in the pants” when my abuser was threatening to abduct and murder our children if I left, I would probably still be there.

      2. pancakes*

        Yes, thank you, and I too will not be taking advice from people who think DV victims need a “kick in the pants.”

      3. Aunt Teen Foster*

        That sounds so awful and I am glad you were able to get yourself and children to safety!

        Respectfully though you are projecting your situation into what I said. The DV situation I described above was against my nephew, of which my sister was sadly involved. She was complicit in the physical abuse against her son, and sadly participated in the emotional abuse. It’s hard to describe, but she couldn’t ackowledge how bad the physical abuse of her son was to herself to take steps to protect her son. It’s like if she acknowledged reality then that would shatter her self view of what sort of mom she was. CPS stepping in, after 2 years, was the kick in the pants I was referring to. It shattered the perception of her self as a perfect mom who didn’t need help and motivated her to tackle her addictions. She still hasn’t reconciled her view of herself as a great mom, and like I said in another comment above she will tell anyone who listens that her kids were taken away because she drank a beer at an Applebee’s, but she’s in a much better place now wheher she admits it or not. She’s dropped her alcohol and pill addiction, and she has no contact with the man who was hitting her son.

    3. Student*

      For kids, it’s always hard to condemn your own parents, even if they’re terrible. I was pretty badly abused as a kid, and in retrospect I wish someone had called CPS and helped me get out of their home sooner. At the time, I wanted my parents to love me. I wanted them to choose me over their addictions. I wanted them to just stop hurting me and love me, and I would’ve been willing to overlook a lot of terrible behavior if they’d been willing to give me an occasional word of encouragement. After I left, it still took years for me to give up on hoping they’d change, hoping they’d love me and accept me, of hoping that this NEXT cool thing I did would finally impress them and earn their approval.

      I only had one adult offer me a slim chance out while I was a child. I had reported to my school that my mother had been talking about killing my younger brother, had been very drunk, smashing things. She’d acted like that before on many occasions, but usually toward me or my father – this was the first time I’d heard her threaten my little brother. The school councilor told me they could potentially remove us from our home, but also told me that I’d better be very sure about it, that my little brother wasn’t backing up my account of the evening (he hadn’t heard her – he was not in the room when she started talking about killing him, so of course he wasn’t confirming my account), and that it might not stick. She also told me that I should be reassured that if my parents killed one of us, they’d take the other one out of the house then. She put a whole lot of onus on me, a scared teenager, to make the actual decision. She gave me no information on what I’d be walking into if I took her up on the offer. I hadn’t even gotten a chance to tell her about any of the prior abuse at that point, and she didn’t bother to ask. I chickened out and didn’t take her up on the offer.

      She told my parents what I’d said, too.

      My parents made my life hell for the rest of my time living with them; they started retaliating against me immediately. It started with a guilt trip from my father, who told me I could’ve gotten my mother sent to jail to get gang-raped. It escalated to physical and financial abuse. They stopped providing me with food. They never debated the details of my account – only tried to intimidate and shame me that I’d dare to tell someone about it.

      It literally did not ever occur to me that I could go back to the school councilor and beg for help again. She’d been so dismissive and discouraging the first time I asked for help that I thought that was it.

      1. Attractive Nuisance*

        “She also told me that I should be reassured that if my parents killed one of us, they’d take the other one out of the house then.”

        What the FUCK.

        I am so sorry this happened to you, Student (both the abuse and the dismissiveness by the councilor). Thank you for sharing this perspective.

  66. Fazbear*

    Carolyn Hax often recommends Childhelp, 1-800-4-A-CHILD. It’s a nonprofit for the prevention of child abuse. They can help you understand your options before calling CPS.

  67. Typing All The Time*

    OP 1: Is there a space in your office where you can set up maybe a nursery? When I was a teen in the nineties, I worked at an office in which an employee had this. It had a door that could be closed when needed.

  69. Glomarization, Esq.*

    There are times when a call to child services can’t be avoided and this might be one of them

    Good heavens. When an infant is left in a car alone for hours at a time, a call to 911 is absolutely and immediately in order.

    1. mom of 2*

      That’s not the OP’s situation. She heard about it after the fact and it is not a police emergency right now because it is over. The question is what she should do now. Alison suggested that she have a conversation with Cora before she decides. She did not suggest that she should never call CPS or that she not call in this case. She wrote she may need to. But to talk to her first before she decides. She wasn’t there for what happened and only heard about it secondhand.

      1. Glomarization, Esq.*

        Of course I recognize that it’s not a police emergency right now. What is surprising and disappointing to me is that Alison and a number of commenters do not appear to fully appreciate that an infant as young as the one described in the letter cannot, cannot, cannot be left unattended in a vehicle for 4 hours. It was an emergency at the time and it’s absolutely something that CPS can be called about.

        I’d urge Alison and other commenters to read what’s been posted by social workers regarding how CPS actually operates before hesitating to call CPS if they ever encounter a situation like the one LW has given us.

        1. Allonge*

          Alison and a number of commenters do not appear to fully appreciate that an infant as young as the one described in the letter cannot, cannot, cannot be left unattended in a vehicle for 4 hours.

          I don’t get this.

          I don’t know where you see that Alison or people here don’t recognise that it should not happen.

          But more importantly it seems you ignore the fact that it (almost certainly) DID happen. If we all repeat a thousand times that it should not, it still does not make it un-happened! It did happen, and only by luck did it not result in a disaster, and that is what OP is dealing with, but right now the immediate danger is gone.

          So OP can take 15 minutes to talk to Cora before they call in CPS; OP should take half an hour to advise the other receptionists who apparently just stood by and watched this happen, and OP can ask their boss to confirm if there are options for Cora.

          Because yes, CPS can and likely should be called, but I doubt they have an immediate, foolproof solution to make 100% sure it will never happen again. So Cora needs some support around her from others, too.

        2. pancakes*

          “I’d urge Alison and other commenters to read what’s been posted by social workers regarding how CPS actually operates before hesitating to call CPS if they ever encounter a situation like the one LW has given us.”

          I don’t follow as to why you think those of us pointing out that the baby isn’t still in the car are unsure about whether it’s ok for babies to be left in cars. Either you want to be as condescending as can be in suggesting that people who disagree with you on this are a danger to themselves and others on account of idiocy, or you’ve terribly misunderstood where the disagreement is. I don’t believe anyone here disagrees that a baby left unattended in a car is in immediate danger. You say you realize that, but by the end of this comment you’re back to the subject of encountering “a situation like this one.” Rather than the one in the letter. Where is it?

  70. happytobehere*

    #4 – My previous job had a 90 day waiting period for insurance (big oof) and I negotiated a signing bonus that covered my insurance for 3 months, despite the position being fairly entry-level and underpaid for that field. But see what’s out there, I was disappointed at the options, it seemed impossible to get “normal” insurance short-term, it mostly just protected me in a catastrophe (which, I did go to the ER once, so worth it!) but I’m not sure about med coverage. Maybe you could get a signing bonus for insurance cost + out of pocket med cost?

  71. Stacey's Mom's Less Attractive Sister*

    Infant waiting lists at daycares can be a year a more, longer for early headstart and people can be in truly desperate situations right now. The YMCA has a helpful childcare referral hotline, and 211 can help her access grants and subsidies for childcare (so can CALworks, or whatever equivalent exists in your state). This can feel really overwhelming, and you can help practically by offering to print documents for her- or if you felt comfortable, offer to watch the baby/take the baby on a walk while Cora does a counseling appointment or makes a phone call to one of those organizations. So much varies state by state or county by county. Local churches can also have daycare programs, especially if shes working shorter 4 hour shifts, and some will accept payment plans or in kind work to pay for childcare.

    Maybe Cora made a bad judgement call, or remembered how her parents used to leave her in the car to run errands and thought it would be okay. But most people understand how big of a danger it can be, so the fact that she told your coworkers and didn’t try to hide it feels like an absolute cry for help. CPS would *like* to help, but they’re so understaffed and overworked and expected to solve a whole societal infrastructure and generational trauma cycle with no real resources or support or equitable pay, and so they are often forced to simply be reactive.

  72. Crap Spackle*

    Just want to point out that in my state, secretarial work pays on average $15 per hour. Cora’s shift was 4 hours. It’s quite possible that letter one happened over a matter of roughly $60… If Cora was desperate and risking the baby’s death for $60 then the issues here are much bigger. I would also be curious to know if the manager LW contacted was already aware of the childcare situation and if they had told Cora that her job was in jeopardy if she didn’t show up. Also, is reckless behavior or poor decision making a symptom of PPD? Cora’s actions seem so far outside what one would think reasonable, I have to question the deeper issues here.

    1. Alict*

      >Cora was desperate and risking the baby’s death for $60 then the issues here are much bigger

      Yes, that is exactly the point people are making, that this is a way massive systemic issues and the cycle of poverty play out. If it’s really inconceivable to you that $60 could make or break someone, it’s probably worth looking into what poverty is actually like.

      Also, don’t armchair diagnose people.

  73. Veryanon*

    I’ll preface this by saying that I understand Cora may have thought she didn’t have any good options. I hope that LW finds a way to help support Cora by maybe offering her the option of working from home when her child care falls through, if that’s feasible, or failing that, allowing her to bring the baby to work with her on these occasions.

    I am haunted by this letter. It reminds me of a situation I encountered earlier in my career. I was doing a lot of hiring and had a lot of interviews scheduled for some CSR positions I was helping to staff. One candidate who came in was very nice, very well spoken, and interviewed well. About halfway through the interview, our receptionist came to the interview room and asked to speak with me. I stepped out and she told me that security had found two little boys out in this candidate’s car, with the windows open, but it was a hot August day and they were obviously in distress. They brought the little boys into the building and let them sit in the AC and gave them some water; thankfully they were okay. I went back into the interview room and told the candidate what had happened and that her boys were safe. We finished the interview, but we did not end up hiring the candidate for a number of different reasons. I often wonder what happened to her and if she was able to find a job. It’s absolutely criminal that the lack of child care in the US drives parents to have to make these kinds of decisions.

    1. Is it Friday? YAY!*

      Yes it is, downright criminal that our peer nations outperform the USA not only on childcare but mother and infant mortality. Ridiculous. Pro-life my crack.

    2. Observer*

      she told me that security had found two little boys out in this candidate’s car, with the windows open, but it was a hot August day and they were obviously in distress. They brought the little boys into the building and let them sit in the AC and gave them some water;

      This is the piece that sticks in my mind. Why did the OP’s coworkers not do the same thing?!

  74. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

    LW1, I would focus on advocating for flexible working and support for working parents within your company. It’s worrying that Cora chose to come to work rather than stay home with her child. That indicates possibly punitive measures taken against people using PTO to care for their kids and a lack of understanding over childcare and how hard it is to find that right now.

  75. HannahS*

    Alison, I almost always agree with your advice. I recognize that being a foster parent offers you a perspective that into the foster system that most commenters don’t have. I also urge you to consider that the outcomes you see are of children who survived their early childhoods. Not all children do–that’s something I think you’re seeing in the answers of the medical professionals on this thread. There is a real risk that this child will die if their mother continues to leave them in a car regardless of why she’s doing it. The advice should be to report it.

  76. Dr. Hyphem*

    Look, I am normally the strictest member of team kids to not belong at work, but at the very least, talk to your boss about telling Cora that if she’s in that situation again, the baby can come inside. Don’t even caveat it with “as long as it’s only occasionally” or anything like that which might lead her to think about leaving the baby in the car again.

    1. Curmudgeon in California*

      This. I discourage the casual idea that “everybody loves kids, let them come to work and scream all day, every day.”

      But if it’s a choice between risking the kid’s life and having them in the office? Bring them in, and tell me why. I’ll try to help.

  77. Nancy*

    LW2: She has indicated that she is interested in more, so yes talk to her! Just don’t push it if she decided she is not interested for whatever reason.
    LW3: Eh, it wouldn’t bother me much.

    LW4: Employers need to follow whatever their contract with the health insurance company says. Some will allow day 1, others require 30 days, 60 days, etc. It is whatever agreement they have with insurance. I’ve had jobs that started day 1 and other where I had to wait. I used COBRA for the ones I had to wait. Also check with your current company’s insurance policy. At my previous job, health insurance ended on the last day of the month in which you left. So you could leave March 1 and be covered until March 31.

    LW1: You need to discuss this with an expert.

  78. Jake*

    #1. Call CPS please. Please. I’m so disappointed in the idea that people, including Alison, are advising you to let her continue to put her child at risk while you personally figure out if you can help. If she is desperate enough to do this, she is probably desperate enough to do other things that are huge risk items as well.

    Time is of the essence. Every day spent trying to figure out how to help is another day where you risk her doing this again and having a much worse outcome.

    I don’t always agree with Alison (although, I do the overwhelming majority of the time), but this is the first time I’m appalled by her response. Unless you’re conversing with Cora literally that day, her answer is leaving way too much time open for a tragedy.

  79. Liz*

    A lot of these comments imply a Schroedinger’s CPS: one that is simultaneously powerful enough to immediately remove a child from a loving parent with no notice and send them to foster care to be abused while also being entirely ineffectual and offering no services.

    The child welfare system is not designed to punish parents, but to protect children. This means offering services to parents in need — and yes, in some cases, removing children from abusive and neglectful situations.

    The “CPS is bad, never call them” comments are actively harmful, IMO, and I’m disappointed by Alison’s advice.

    4. Attractive Nuisance*

      Yes. Also, Schroedinger’s Bad Mom whose behavior is the result of a complex failure of social systems but can be fixed by some kind-hearted colleagues.

      And Schroedinger’s Bad Parental Leave Policy which is imposed by a giant corporation but can be changed by a receptionist asking nicely on behalf of her coworker.

      There is a lot going on here. I am sympathetic to every commenter pointing out every flaw and prejudice in this terrible situation. There’s no shortage of things to despair at.

      1. Alict*

        >whose behavior is the result of a complex failure of social systems but can be fixed by some kind-hearted colleagues.

        This is so disingenuous. People banding together can help mitigate the harms of institutions, that’s literally the principle behind all charity and social movements. Being a victim of a messed up society does not make you a “bad mom” or bad person, and your choice of that phraseology is incredibly revealing.

    5. BeadsNotBees*

      Agreed. Even if it was a true act of desperation, she made a conscious choice that could have literally killed her baby and there are consequences for that.

      1. CoveredinBees*

        CPS shouldn’t be a punishment, depending on how you view them, calling them should be an act of help. Not “consequences” for bad decisions.

        1. BeadsNotBees*

          CPS should be called to help the infant. I’m saying avoiding making Cora’s life difficult shouldn’t be a concern when making this choice, that may unfortunately be the result of her actions.

    6. MissElizaTudor*

      Plenty of organizations are powerful enough to harm someone while also being entirely ineffectual at solving longer term problems that person has. Police, ICE, and Border Patrol come to mind. CPS isn’t necessarily that way, but it’s not at all a “Schroedinger’s” situation to say that an agency that can “solve” a situation by taking an action against a person (like removing a child or putting someone in jail for camping in a public park) without offering long term solutions (like access to child care or providing housing).

  80. Elizabeth West*

    #2–My role at OldExjob was almost exactly like this (aside from the toxicity, sexism, etc.). It sounds like an ideal solution for the potentially bored receptionist.

    If she’s really that good, they can move her into the admin role and hire a new receptionist, but most companies would rather consolidate than hire more people. In that case, they should pay her appropriately. It’s common to dump more job duties on receptionists and lump them under “other duties as assigned” to avoid giving them any more money when they take on added responsibility.

    #3–What is this, the 1950s? Oh wait . . .

  81. FormerNanny*

    Allison, I disagree with your advice entirely and OP1 needs to ensure that baby is NEVER left in a car alone again. As a former mandated reporter, this is something I would have to report because it is neglect and it puts the child’s life at risk. Even without being in a car, a four-month-old should never be left alone for a period of time, let alone four hours!!! If this story truly occurred in the way described, CPS should get involved. That child’s life was in danger, period. Anyone who walked past that car should have called 911 immediately.

    1. Jake*

      “That child’s life was in danger”

      I would go so far as to amend that to “That child’s life was in danger, and most probably will be again before OP is able to do anything helpful to prevent a future occurrence.”

      Leaving a baby alone for 4 hours at 4 months old is a death sentence eventually.

      1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

        I agree entirely. While we don’t know what’s going on at home, this lapse in judgment that people could literally see, indicates a reasonable concern that there’s a possibility of other things going on that people would not see.

  82. Nope*

    Re #1 – Those coworkers of yours shouldn’t have gossiped, they should’ve told her to bring her baby inside ASAP and worked out the issues later. They failed their coworker on a fundamental level by using it for gossip fodder instead of problem-solving. In issues of danger and possibly life or death, do the right thing first. Do not, I repeat do NOT contact child protective services because of this. This person checked on the child, had the car running, and did everything in what she assumed was within her power to do. She *was* protecting her child.

    If it is within your power, offer a pay bump or child care assistance or something so that she’s never forced into this situation again.

    1. bamcheeks*

      I’m genuinely surprised how many people think that CPS is only there to punish parents who have bad intentions, and not ones who are doing their best but don’t have the ability to keep their children safe. I recognise all the caveats about whether CPS actually has the funding and the training to do that and that any arm of the state brings with it a whole host of biases against people of colour, poor people and so on, but still, I am really shocked that “she was doing her best, of course you shouldn’t call CPS” is an argument which is being made.

      1. CoveredinBees*

        I don’t agree with the idea that CPS should be punishment, but that their inclusion isn’t appropriate for some situations. I used to work with a former CPS caseworker and she said that *she* wouldn’t call them unless there was abuse or ongoing neglect. Where we were, CPS was so overloaded with cases of varying degrees of seriousness that everything took forever. Even once there was a recommendation to return the child to their parent(s), it might be 6 months before it happened.

    2. Observer*

      Those coworkers of yours shouldn’t have gossiped, they should’ve told her to bring her baby inside ASAP and worked out the issues later.

      True.

      This person checked on the child,

      No she didn’t. It’s not physically possible for her to have actually seen what was going on with the child in that situation. She didn’t didn’t go outside – she was looking out from the window in her office. I’ll repeat, in that setup it was physically impossible for her to see if the kid was ok.

      had the car running

      Which doesn’t guarantee that the AC will continue to work, on the one hand (and there would have been no way for Cora to know the difference) and would make it easier for someone to just drive the car away long before Cora could have done anything.

  83. Sharkzle*

    #1 It sounds like Cora is really struggling and desperate, plus she’s only 4 months postpartum which I’m sure is a factor in all of this. Does your office offer any sort of medical or emergency leave that she could take advantage of? Maybe it would be kindest to give her some more time away from the responsibilities of work and try to focus on her family. Are there older coworkers who might have teenagers or someone they know who would be able to babysit in a real pinch? Regardless of wether you choose to report this incident or not, I would encourage you or your company to examine their medical and leave policies to make sure they’re adequate and work for all of your staff.

  84. Secretariat*

    OP#1 again, response #2….
    I am basing this off of small observations and tidbits, so could be off base, but I believe Cora’s financial situation is pretty dire. The baby was unplanned and the father is not involved. No family involved. Someone did the math and said Cora did this for around what amounts to $60. That’s correct. But my sense is that $60 truly is that needed for her (obviously I mean needed enough to bring the baby to work, not to risk its life). I’ve not been in the situation myself to know for sure, but I believe if Cora had told our manager that she had no childcare but couldn’t afford to go unpaid/didn’t have the PTO/etc. (Which makes sense. I would assume she spent all she had in her PTO/sick bank on maternity leave) that he would have told her to come in and leave the baby in the back office or under the desk etc., but I can’t say that with certainty.
    Someone else pointed out that calling child services or talking to our other coworkers shouldn’t be done behind her back. I agree to an extent, but as I said in my first response, she’s fairly prickly and I’m not her favorite. I guess at a certain point I just have to be okay with that, but I feel anything I say to her about this won’t be taken well. She’s definitely the type to spurn any opinions besides her own as incorrect.

    1. Call CPS*

      So she’s stubborn and makes poor decisions. Run, don’t walk, from Allison’s advice, and call CPS today.

    2. Just Another Zebra*

      Call CPS. They have resources that can help someone in such a tough spot. Ultimately the welfare of Cora’s baby has to come before everything else.

    3. ScienceTeacher*

      You need to call CPS. Please. It is literally their job to assess situations in which children are in danger. They are professionals at it and have access to many more resources than you do.

      Yes, the system isn’t perfect. But it’s better than a baby dying in a hot car. Foster kids have it rough oftentimes — but the foster kids you see having it rough also survived infancy.

      Give her a heads up if you want to, but please call. I’m a mandated reporter — this is a call I would not feel conflicted at all about making.

    4. Macaroni Penguin*

      Dang, this is a hard situation. Are there any do your work benefits include access to a social worker? A social worker could connect with Cora and go through resources. Is the supervisor able to have that conversation with Cora?
      In dire situations (like what happened) can your work just bring the baby to a quiet office and deal with the situation? It’s not a long term regular option of course. But yeah, in the moment it’s better than the baby dying.

      (I work in the social services field. We social workers can be useful)

    5. E*

      Yes, the appropriate and best thing to do is to let the person know you’re calling CPS and why. But you don’t HAVE to. You can just call them. You can just let them know what happened and let them know your concern, and leave it at that. You can likely even call anonymously. CPS involvement is not a great choice or outcome for any family but sometimes it is the choice that has to be made.

    6. EventPlannerGal*

      I think you truly do need to involve some kind of outside help. Even if it’s not CPS – someone posted a helpline number elsewhere – this sounds like an absolute recipe for disaster. And now that she’s done it once and it’s gone okay, this is now going to be solidified in her mind as an okay option. It isn’t.

      Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

  85. noname*

    LW#1: Seems like Cora’s 4 hour shift comes immediately before yours. Tell Cora you heard that she was in a major child care bind and let her know that the next time she’s in this situation, she can drop her baby off at your house at 7:30am with the car seat, and you’ll watch the baby until Cora’s shift ends and yours begins.

    1. Beany*

      This is not a reasonable response. We don’t know about LW1’s own resources or time commitments, and Cora can’t assume that they’re going to be available when/if such a childcare bind crops up again.

  86. icky shuffle*

    “Bubbly.” Ick. Bring me back to an irritating moment one day in 2001ish, when a cohort of female writers was walking through the hall together and someone said something hysterically funny. A colleague walking by said “Ooh, a gaggle of giggling writers!” Sure, I am as pro-alliteration as the next person, but, seriously, ick.

  87. Kevin*

    As a non-American, scenario #1 is mind-boggling because I live in a country where up to 18 months of paid parental leave is required by law.

    The advice I would give is to lobby your employer and your elected officials to create such a program, and/or to create more flexibility for working from home in these ‘childcare fell through’ scenarios.

    1. CoveredinBees*

      You think we don’t have these things because we haven’t lobbied for them? Thank you oh so much wise foreigner for telling us we should ask for things. We have. For decades. We almost got universal daycare in the 1970s until Nixon thought it sounded Communist and bad for families. We haven’t stopped lobbying either. Both with employers and government.

    2. Ashley W.*

      Who else had “non-American comes in just to brag about their wonderful parental leave policies” on their AAM bingo board?

      1. Lily Potter*

        Me! Sure wish there was a way, in general, to filter out non-US responses on some topics. It gets super tiresome to constantly hear about how sucky American parents have it in the workplace. I know it’s true; I’m just tired of hearing about it.

    3. Nopetopus*

      > lobby your employer and your elected officials

      WHY OH WHY do the non-Americans in the comments section always suggest this as though we aren’t already doing it?! Enough already. We get it, our country sucks and yours is Utopia.

      1. Kevin*

        I worked in the US for several years and took part in union negotiations.

        So I know very well how initiatives fail because people are more concerned about purity tests and sounding good rather than being effective.

    4. The Other Dawn*

      In Cora’s case, how exactly would she work from home since she’s in reception and checks clients in in person?

    5. Curmudgeon in California*

      The answer for why we don’t have it is “conservative politics”, and the conservatives want women out of the workforce and back into the kitchen tending children or grandchildren. It’s been this way since I was a kid. A majority of the country wants better but the way our political system is set up the people with the biggest pocketbook functionally decide the elections, and they don’t want to pay more in taxes to care for and educate the next generation.

      If you have some miraculous way to change that fact, I’m all ears, otherwise button it – we know it sucks, we’ve been trying to change it for years, and every step forward comes with a reactionary two steps back.

      1. Kevin*

        Ok then.

        Start with your state government, especially since you live in the left-leaning state of California. Not everything has to be done at a federal level.

        For instance, cheap daycare was created in Quebec more than 20 years ago, and the notion is now being expanded across all of Canada. You may recognize Quebec because it has worked with California on many inititatives, such as carbon markets.

        You want more inspiration: look to your anti-abortion groups and how they have manipulated the system after decades of hard work.

        Put in the work.

    6. Observer*

      The advice I would give is to lobby your employer and your elected officials to create such a program, and/or to create more flexibility for working from home in these ‘childcare fell through’ scenarios.

      Thanks for the concern trolling.

      Yes, that is all this is. This does absolutely nothing to help Cora or to keep her child safe. Do you even care? It certainly doesn’t sound like it.

      1. Kevin*

        Oy vey. Read the pinned post.

        I am looking at the root cause of why someone with a four month old has to work and put an infant in that situation.

        Fight for your rights.

  88. Current CASA*

    Alison – I’d love for you to do a blog post on the job of being a foster parent! I’ve been a Guardian ad Litem for years and hope to one day become a foster parent. I also know we desperately need more great people to step up in the system (for all the reasons you mentioned in your initial response), so additional education for your readers would be super interesting. Maybe instead of you interviewing someone with a unique job, you get someone to interview you ;).

  89. Orora*

    For letter 3, the reason companies do this is to minimize administration. It can be a royal PITA to have employees sign up for health insurance on the first day and then quit 2 days later. You have to input the employee’s info, then cancel it, because they could have had a claim during those 3 days. You also have to administer COBRA if they elect it once they’ve left.

    If you wait 60 days, you’re pretty sure it’s worth the time, effort and costs for an employee to stay employed.

    Ask me how I know.

    1. Ash*

      It shouldn’t matter if they quit 2 days in. I understand it can be an administrative but imagine getting struck by an uninsured car during those 60 days your job is forcing you to go without insurance, just because they don’t want the extra admin (or worse yet, because they don’t want to pay the costs for 60 days). It just really lacks compassion for your workers, and is in no way justifiable.

  90. GarlicMicrowaver*

    I am disappointed in everything about thread 1. Everything, including the responses.

  91. works in foster care*

    In an ideal world, calling CPS would lead to a competent, not overworked social worker being assigned to support Cora with additional resources she needs to successfully parent her child, but that is not as likely as it ought to be. Children across the country are sleeping in social workers offices post-removal because there’s no one to take them. In cases prior to removal, involvement of CPS can be damaging. Sometimes calling is still necessary.

    But not calling right now when the baby isn’t in the car and choosing to see if community support will prevent future incidents doesn’t mean you can’t call CPS after if you’re out of your depth! It is completely reasonable to first try giving her resources as an individual or company before escalating. There is no action or punishment that will undo what she did, but the best practice – in the context of Families First, evidence based practices, and whole family care – to prevent neglect is to ensure the caregiver is supported. There is nothing lost by trying that first so long as the child isn’t in immediate danger.

    1. Anono-me*

      Of all the comments on this horrible and already tragic situation Op 1 asks about; this seems the most sensible helpful response for the child’s current and future wellbeing.

      On a completely different focus; Op 1, I would also be careful about trusting your coworkers who were there and only gossiped about the situation after the fact with anything requiring empathy or good judgment.

  92. Calamity Janine*

    times when “bubbly personality” is fine to put in a job ad:

    1. tour guide at champagne and pun brewery
    2. That’s it. That’s the only one. There is only one situation and it is That.

    1. MrsThePlague*

      This is amazing. I know a NUMBER of people who would be first in line to visit the ‘Champagne and Pun Brewery’. Take my money, Calamity Jane! :’D

    2. LilPinkSock*

      I would excel at that job…partly because I enjoy champagne, brewery tours, and puns, and partly because I’m not ashamed of being female and having a bubbly personality (although I’ve been told today that apparently I am also vacuous, unprofessional, annoying and exhausting!).

  93. KoiFeeder*

    As a non-parent, if I may ask a stupid question:

    What should a parent do if their childcare has fallen through last-minute and they will lose their job if they call in that day?

    1. Alict*

      According to a shocking amount of commentors, apparently, decide to stop being a bad, bad poor person in a society that’s failed them.

      Friends, family, neighbors… but it’s also possible those aren’t options either. And then the question becomes, “How can I keep providing food and housing for my child? What can I do that’s of the least risk to them but let’s me keep the job?” There’s no real answer to that question, only desperate gambitz.

      Cora is one of many Coras, and some variation of this choice with no good option gets made every day by many, many women in the US. I think there’s a large portion of people, both in these comments and in real life, who don’t want to admit to themselves how common this kind of desperation is, and for whom “punishing” this particular Cora is extra necessary because it allows them to feel as though they’ve solved the problem, done their duty, and can go on feeling good about having done the “right” thing. Punitive actions toward this Cora stave off the existential horror. Unfortunately they also allow the system that created her to keep chugging along.

    2. Missb*

      *not* leave them in the car at work.

      It is tough – having kids often results in parents (typically women) staying out of the job market for a number of years and living more on the fringes of society if they’re single. It’s a bit of snowball affect especially for single parents and can seriously set back what could’ve been a stable young adulthood.

      Best case for an employed parent is to find backups to backups to backups… in advance. That is so much easier to do when one has a more stable life (or a partner), but much harder to do when one is living on the very edge and has few people to rely on. Trusted friends, family, neighbors, drop in daycare centers, etc are backups. With an office job at a larger corporation, talking to work about the possibility of bringing the baby in may be an option. But younger people who make lower wages at front office jobs may not have the skills to ask whether it’s ok to do so, in advance.

      Yes, people lose their jobs because they can’t juggle daycare and babies. Babies are notorious for picking up illnesses at daycare and that continues on even into elementary school. Pretty much every parent has the experience of their kid bringing home a new virus in the fall and the whole family gets ill. Much easier to do when there are more folks in the home. Not easy for a single parent.

      CPS often has resources that they can connect folks with. They’re not bad people. They’ve taken a hard job, but social services in general try to connect people with the help they need.

      I’m wandering a bit into off-topic territory, but I had to call social services a number of months ago on an elderly neighbor. She was wealthy, but she didn’t have any close family or friends. She started with some odd behavior, and I called social services to see what sort of interventions they could provide (it’s adult protective services). It is a different agency than CPS, but the goal is the same- to connect people with the help they need. (Same neighbor has now not paid her monthly fee at her retirement village and is getting evicted. I’m rather hoping that the adult protective services has been able to track whether or not she was paid for the sale of her house.)

      anyway, I’m pro-CPS in the case of an infant left in this situation. The mom needs help, and the baby needs to be safe. Those two things are not necessarily at odds.

    3. Observer*

      What should a parent do if their childcare has fallen through last-minute and they will lose their job if they call in that day?

      Bring the kid into the office.

      If the OP’s coworkers were decent people with the sense god gave a goose, THEY would have suggested it, too.

      Instead they gossiped about it after she left.

  94. Anon for this one*

    “There are times when a call to child services can’t be avoided and this might be one of them, but I’d encourage you to talk with her first and get a better understanding of the situation before making that call.”

    So, reading that line in the context of Alison’s other comments, I wonder if there has been a misinterpretation here. Admittedly, on first reading, I read it as “if you talk to her and it seems like she’s remorseful and she understands the gravity of what she’s done, there’s no need to call CPS”. But, reading Alison’s comments above, could it be “keep in mind you’ve only got this information second hand and gossipy co-workers could be exaggerating – you don’t want to potentially open a can of worms by calling CPS if it turns out, for example, Cora’s baby was actually with a friend the whole time but there was a 5 minute cross-over while Cora was packing up and friend dropping baby back with her and baby was in the car for that time”? (And, yes, that would open up whole new levels of “what the actual…” for the co-workers and the office culture!)

    1. Minimal Pear*

      Yeah, I feel like there needs to be a LOT of emphasis here on the fact that this is all secondhand–and sometimes gossip gets more scandalous with the retelling! I definitely think it’s important to find out from Cora what actually happened. I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable reporting Cora to CPS on secondhand information, and like some people said earlier, CPS might not even allow it.

  95. HoundMom*

    That sounds odd. FSAs regs say that the employer must be at risk for loss of dollars if someone utilizes the funds before they are collected from the employee. On the flip side, funds not used by employees are forfeited back to employers.

  96. DJ*

    Cora sounds pretty vulnerable and certainly one of the few times she should have been encouraged to bring the baby in with her and keep baby behind reception in the car seat capsule. How ever if the baby becomes unsettled an issue and perhaps then if couldn’t be settled Cara would have to cut her shift short! Yes looking around for resources for her, managerial discussion around her needs ie set shifts within child care hours etc

  97. Anon in Canada*

    The culprit for the situation Cora was in is at-will employment. As long as employers can, and do, fire employees for missing work even under such extreme circumstances (“I don’t care about your baby, show up to work or you’re fired” is a very, very common thing for bosses in some industries to say), parents will take such risks and some children will die. At-will employment needs to end!

  99. CLC*

    Oh that’s so awful! I’m appalled at the other coworkers who didn’t step in. If talking to Cora didn’t work, I would have run out there myself to get the baby. That is just so horrible. The manager has to get this woman some kind of accommodation or the very least help her find emergency childcare services. Cora should also see a counselor or social worker. If the company has one of those employee resource programs should could start there. I’m so glad everything turned out ok but I’m so worried she will do it again.

  100. HR Lady*

    Oh I feel for Cora. I’ve worked with a Cora. I ended up taking the child when our shifts didn’t align. It was only a couple if times until she could find an alternative. I was 18 and had no idea what to do with a baby but he was safe. I also was that child (not in the car) but I attended college, I went to work, I even had to go on a college field trip for a week all as a toddler/preschooler. Our country sucks and if you aren’t well off you can’t afford childcare and if you make a penny too much you can’t get daycare assistance.

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