open thread – August 26-27, 2022

by Alison Green on August 26, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 1,200 comments }

{ 1,200 comments… read them below }

  1. Alexis Carrington Colby*

    I had an intro call with a recruiter yesterday for an open role and she said their company emphasized “total rewards” which meant base salary + bonus + incentive, how common is that compared to a salary in a non-sales role (particularly for a marketing job in tech)? 
    I currently have a salary, which has no bonus but it’s reliable. What’s interesting is that the recruiter’s demeanor changed a bit when I told her my salary requirements and said it might be out of budget, which is fair. 

    That company also just got acquired two weeks ago, so it makes me nervous about the “bonus structure”, who’s to say that won’t change? Several years ago the company I worked at also changed their bonus structure, which people weren’t happy about. That just makes me nervous how it’s not 100% reliable.

    They are also hiring a director who this open rec would be reporting to, and the recruiter mentioned how that director role would be hands-on and “in the weeds”, which I also don’t want. I need something where there are boundaries between the levels.
    I’m thinking about taking myself out of consideration, but I feel bad because I had reached out to a former coworker who currently works there and she put in a good word for me with the recruiter. 

    1. ThatGirl*

      I’m in marketing (not tech) and my company actually does offer bonuses to basically everyone, but they’re relatively small (mine is 3% of salary) and it was not discussed at all as part of my compensation when I was hired, so it was a nice surprise on top of the agreed-upon pay. In your case I would be a bit suspicious between the potential weirdness for your bonus to go away and the fact that the company was just acquired.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      For something like marketing it can be common to tie some compensation to metrics – how well is the marketing doing, basically. I’d definitely want more details about the “incentives” piece. So to the “common” piece of your question, not so out of the ordinary, you might come across it elsewhere.

      Now here’s my two cents: trust your gut. Bonuses and incentives are just those – extra compensation to reward and incentivize excellent performance. Your base salary still reflects your inherent worth to the company, and it is the compensation you can depend on to budget your life. I am strongly against the “total compensation” argument because it ties what should be extra benefits for exceeding expectations to the base and tries to force you to view them as one benefit. A lot of companies use this strategy to avoid paying raises and it would be a yellow flag for me – possibly a red flag if the recruiter is saying something is “emphasized”.

      Don’t worry about your friend. Sometimes referrals don’t work out and “we were too far apart on compensation” is a very low impact reason for a conversation to fall through. I would recommend you withdraw, I think your instincts are good and they’re being clear with you.

      1. 867-5309*

        THIS – Bonuses and incentives are just those – extra compensation to reward and incentivize excellent performance. Your base salary still reflects your inherent worth to the company, and it is the compensation you can depend on to budget your life.

      2. The Real Fran Fine*

        Bonuses and incentives are just those – extra compensation to reward and incentivize excellent performance. Your base salary still reflects your inherent worth to the company, and it is the compensation you can depend on to budget your life.

        Yup, that’s why if you have a company that offers these total compensation packages, you should still negotiate your base salary as high as they can go because bonuses aren’t guaranteed.

        I’m not in marketing, but I’m in tech (started in a content development role and am now in comms), and my company offers everyone – regardless of job function – quarterly bonuses. I have consistently received all of my quarterly bonuses for all three plus years I’m been here. However, midway through 2020, the company cut our bonus structures by 10% due to COVID and concerns about whether we’d meet revenue goals, so a lot of people ended up with no bonuses that year. I still received 5% of my bonus amounts since my bonus structure was at 15% at the time.

        It sucked, but because I negotiated my base pay almost up to the ceiling when I began, the cut to my bonuses didn’t negatively impact my life – I could still pay all my bills, my rent, buy tons of groceries and PPE, and still save a sizable amount of my income. In fact, during this pandemic, I was finally able to put aside 7 months worth of living expenses in an emergency fund and catch up my 401K to where it should have been had I been saving in one all along (there were many years early in my career where I just didn’t make enough to contribute to one without ending up homeless).

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Don’t feel bad! An interview is an opportunity for both parties to learn if it’s a right fit. You’ve learned this isn’t a right fit for you, and the recruiter is better off spending their time on candidates who would enjoy the role and the environment.

    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I mean, salary isn’t 100% reliable either. It’s probably more reliable than bonuses overall, but it’s highly contextual. Our bonus structure has been the same in the decades I’ve been at this company. But you need to balance the risk against the higher probable compensation. It wouldn’t be a turn-off to me, as when I was actively hunting I figured out our total compensation package in order to compare it to Federal jobs, which are supposed to have better benefits, and it turns out it was closer than I thought. If yours is based on a bonus, can you ask some people who would be your peers how consistent the bonuses and incentives have been? If the hiring manager can quote you your expected total compensation/rewards, they probably have a formula.

      Working for a brand new manager would be much more of a concern to me, though.

    5. Snow Globe*

      I work in an industry that has a lot of jobs with performance-based incentives. When I was last interviewing for jobs, several places were pretty upfront about how many people on their team got the full reward in the last two years or what the average award actually was for the person who had that position previously. I’d ask questions around that to get a feel for what has actually been paid out previously as opposed to what the potential payout could be. Also, of course, find out what the key metrics are for award.

    6. Lady_Lessa*

      I would be nervous, just because the company was acquired. That would be a good enough reason to remove yourself from consideration.

      I once started job hunting just because I knew that the company was up for sale and knew that any potential buyers probably had enough chemists

      1. Pass the Just-For-Men*

        I wish I had taken this lesson. Same boat (different role), I believed the owners saying nothing would change. “We’re family”. Right before the acquisition was finalized, multiple layoffs which my role was a victim of.

      2. Glitsy Gus*

        Agreed. The structure you mentioned may be great, it depends on the set up. But given that they were just acquired, PLUS the structure does sound a little murky, PLUS a new director coming in that you have no information on is a LOT of uncertainty.

        Only one of those I may say if it otherwise sounds good it would probably be worth the risk, but all of that? Listen to your gut.

    7. Rain's Small Hands*

      I don’t know how common it is, but its my husband’s pay structure. His base salary is decent and dependable and we can completely live off of it. The bonus which is based on how the company does as well as how he does against his metrics is another 25% or more – generally. But your right, it isn’t dependable – its always been paid, but if the company has a bad year, they aren’t obligated to pay it. But you have to be comfortable and if the base salary won’t pay the bills and the incentive and bonus isn’t dependable, that probably won’t work.

      1. RussianInTexas*

        That is my partner – the salary is good in it’s own, and an annual bonus is built in to the pay structure – he WILL get it, but the size depends on the performance of the whole tech center, not just him.
        It varies between 10% and 20% annually.
        He also just got a long term incentive – 1800 of the RSU of the company, vested over the course of 3 years.
        He is in tech, has nothing to do with sales.

      2. LIZZIE*

        This sounds like my job. My salary pays for all my expenses with a decent amount left over. I also get an annual bonus; base is 15% of my salary, but the last 10 years or so, its been closer to 25%. But I never ever count on it, even though we’ve gotten it every year for the 20+ years I’ve been there, until we get the email saying yes bonuses are coming and will be paid on such and such date.

    8. Decidedly Me*

      I know a lot of sales folks and they think of compensation in terms of OTE (on target earnings) – they even list their salary requirements in OTE. However, I’ve never seen that in a non-sales(ish) role.

    9. Anonymous Educator*

      Anything like a bonus or incentive is not something you can count on.

      That said, it’s also okay to ask how often bonuses and incentives happen and what the average size is for the team for each of the last few years.

      If they get dicey about the details, that’s a big, red flag.

    10. Parenthesis Dude*

      In general, value salary more than incentive and bonuses. Be more worried if they tell you that you can have a bonus up to a certain percentage. Be less worried if they tell you that the target bonus is x%.

      But sure, $120k with a 10% target bonus and $5000 in incentives if you hit certain performance metrics should be considered a better offer than say $125k.

    11. mreasy*

      My current company HR person was put off when I asked for a higher base salary rather than combining base + bonus to get to my desired number. I did so for exactly that reason! If they can’t go up on the base, don’t do something you will worry about.

    12. Ann Ominous*

      Would you still be pursuing this if you didn’t feel bad about the coworker putting in a good word for you?

      This struck a chord with me because I have done a lot of things that I didn’t truly want to do, just because I felt guilty/obligated.

      Your coworker connected a candidate and a recruiter. Your obligation was to follow up and evaluate whether the company was a good fit for you and give the company a chance to evaluate whether you’re a good fit for them (and other things like not being a jerk, being reasonably professional, etc). You have fulfilled your obligation to the coworker at this point!

      Any other decisions are separate from the social obligation you have in response to your coworker connecting you, just like you wouldn’t feel resentful of your coworker if the company wasn’t a good fit for you.

    13. CPA in Canada*

      When my husband took a promotion and his salary didn’t change much but his bonus structure did significantly – he was told not to worry to much because the bonus had never not paid out in the 25 years his boss had been with the company.

      Dear reader, you may have already guessed – the company didn’t pay out the bonus that year for the first time in 25 years – nothing. Now, it has paid out, often quite well, in all other years since and was still a good move – but the point is you never really know.

      1. Endorable*

        One of my favourite movies is “Christmas Vacation”, when Clark’s bonus turned out to be “It’s a one-year membership in the Jelly-of-the-Month-Club.” Never rely on bonuses!

    14. Triumphant Fox*

      I am in a director marketing role in tech and would say that emphasizing total rewards is not common and would make me nervous. I just moved companies and this company barely talked about bonuses and incentives, adding them at the end as part of the package but definitely not how they benchmark compensation. I worry that your company isn’t being competitive salary-wise with others in the field. My company was super clear about what I could expect from extras but that nothing was guaranteed on that front.

    15. An Australian In London*

      You say this is in tech, even though the role isn’t a tech role.

      This sort of structure is common in Big Tech (Facebook/Amazon/Apple/Microsoft/Google, and other tech unicorns that use their job grade levels), although there it’s usually more base + stock + signing bonus. You’ll hear the term “total comp” a lot in companies headquartered in the USA.

      I worked for a software company where my structure was base + bonus + employee share plan.

      As other say the catch is the bonus and incentive payments. It’s fine when that’s based on your individual performance and achievements; it’s less good when it’s group, division, or company-wide performance. I’ve been in the position where I personally achieved 167% of the targets for my (non-sales) role, but because my group, country, and overall company did not, I received perhaps 10% of the bonus that my individual performance would normally have been rewarded with.

      The devil is always in the details. Variable comp is a complex topic.

    16. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      I work in tech and marketing. My bonus is on top of my salary. It can vary from year to year, but has generally been pretty good and adds roughly another $5-8k to my yearly income. But also be aware this bonus is taxed at a much higher tax rate. If your bonus is $10k, you will actually only get about $7k of that bonus. Still that’s better than no bonus so I’m not complaining! I just don’t COUNT on it being a given, but more like a welcome surprise. Thus, negotiate for your base salary first.

      1. L.H. Puttgrass*

        “But also be aware this bonus is taxed at a much higher tax rate.”

        Well…sort of.

        A bonus isn’t actually taxed at a higher rate than base salary. For the most part, income is income. The withholding might be higher, though, since (1) withholding for bonuses is calculated differently than withholding for regular pay, and (2) the effective tax rate for regular pay is lower than the marginal rate.

        1. KatEnigma*

          Yep and if you aren’t in that 28% tax bracket, you will get it back when you file your tax return.

    17. KatEnigma*

      My husband has had that conversation MANY times with hiring managers and recruiters, and he’s in Software Engineering. It’s totally normal. And he refuses to budge on it EVER. They have to meet his base salary, period. “We paid 8% of total salary even during the recession” at a Fortune 500 was true, and they didn’t meet metrics to pay anything the first year after they hired him. Bonuses are just that- bonuses.

    18. Miette*

      I work in marketing and have been at tech companies in the past. My base salary was always competitive for the market, with bonuses being just that: a bonus. There was always some % of it tied to my goal achievement, and some other % based on how well the company did, and if the company did 110% of its revenue target, that would be reflected, which was nice. The level of job determined the % of base that the bonus would be based on (e.g. managers’ bonuses may be 5%, directors 7%, etc.) and/or the amount of company performance bonus (e.g. managers might be entitled to $10k and directors $20k).

      Other places I worked there would be a bonus pool that would be doled out by your manager, who decided who got what (which I am sure opens things up to lots of unfairness, I mean I am shuddering thinking about it, though thankfully not in my experience as my boss was very transparent about it).

      I always think of bonuses as something not to be counted on, and that’s how it was seen by most of my colleagues. So if I am evaluating a competitive salary for myself, I would only look at base and not bonuses. In other words, I would never count the bonus as core compensation because there are so many factors surrounding whether you will get it, many of which are out of your control.

      So if a competitive salary for your level in your industry is like $100k, but the way they are getting there is something like $80k base +$20k bonus, just walk away.

      Regarding the acquisition, I would also question the recruiter hard about it. Many places will practice “last hired first fired” when it comes to identifying redundancies in staffing, and depending on the new structure, many jobs in marketing (typically in the comms/promotion/advertising areas) are among the first on the chopping block. Proceed with caution.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        This has been useful to read. I received an offer from a company, doing similar work to what I am now, but with more senior duties.

        In the offer, the bonuses were highlighted, but when I did the calculations, I would be earning a bit less than what I am now. So I have asked for more money, but no response yet.

  2. Weird interview format*

    I have an upcoming panel interview but there is a weird aspect that they conveyed to me:

    “As part of the interview, candidates lead a 10-minute conversation with the panel on the role’s priorities, key contacts, areas of focus, summarising the main areas of discussion back to the panel.”

    Weird right? Like the role has a focus on collaboration with stakeholders so I know my communication skills will be under scrutiny. I’ll also review the job description too.

    But this directive makes it seem that I need to have prior in-depth knowledge of the role. Is it perhaps an interview process meant for an internal candidate who is slated for the role? Has anyone else had a panel interview like this? I am a bit thrown for a loop here, and appreciate any insight.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I would think that maybe this is after they’ve given you some info, that you’re basically taking new info, synthesizing it together with what you already know, and summarizing it back to the group on the fly to demonstrate your ability to speak off the cuff to some extent?

      1. Elle*

        And also engaging the group in discussion questions to initiate a conversation, keep them interested and clarify what you need more info on.

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        If the point is to come in already knowing the answer, it’s weird. But if the assessment is on the ability to synthesize and summarize, and the role is the topic you would obviously have been talking about for the past hour, it makes sense. Rather than drag in some sort of test topic and have someone explain, say, the history of time keeping for 20 minutes.

        1. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

          Flashback to my Fortune 500 company job where part of the interview was to give a 15 minute presentation on the history of EFT payments.

    2. Sassenach*

      It sounds like they might have implemented this step in response to prior candidates not really understanding the role and this is their odd way to make sure you have been paying attention. I might ask them what the objective of the exercise is so you know what to focus on. Otherwise this seems odd.

    3. Llellayena*

      It sounds more like they’re expecting a 10 min “presentation” at the end of the interview where you summarize everything you just learned (“summarizing the main areas of discussion”). I think this would get them: your presentation skills, your ability to retain information presented verbally, your ability to engage and apply that retained information in later communication. It’s also saying “lead a conversation” for that 10 min so it sounds like they want to measure your ability to keep OTHERS engaged in the topic, asking questions of the “participants” or facilitating and focusing a round table discussion.

      1. Anna Badger*

        yeah this is how I read it too – seems like a great way to allow you to get a bunch of information and to allow them to get a sense of your facilitation and summary skills.

      2. Manchmal*

        It does not read like a presentation to me, mostly because they call it a conversation rather than a presentation. Conversation implies back-and-forth. IF you go in and talk for 10 min straight, they may not like that at all. I would treat it as an opportunity to summarize what you’ve heard but also to ask questions and get feedback.

    4. BellyButton*

      You may also approach it as how would you discover those things.
      For example –
      Priorities – speak to stakeholder and management to asses first 90 days of goals
      Key Contacts- vendors, leaders in such and such areas,

      I would put together a PPT and attempt to draw on your previous experience as to how you would tackle each of these areas.

    5. Smithy*

      So not exactly like that, but I did have a panel interview where part of it was I was supposed to give a presentation on trends in our sector (private institutional fundraising) and how it would apply to the job and then answer questions.

      Initially it was a little awkward feeling like I didn’t really know the new organization in a lot of detail to specifically connect them to larger sector trends in the way someone hired or even a consultant would. But it ended up feeling a lot more natural, as it was largely talking about stuff I already understood (i.e. the trends), and then flagging how they might or might not best relate to the role/organization as I understood it.

      Therefore, if this job has a project management component, talking about how you’d bring together X and Y technical teams, with Communications/Legal/Compliance/Procurement or whatever other teams feel potentially appropriate. As it’s meant to be a conversation, asking questions like “in previous jobs legal was only involved at the end – does your process work similarly or have a different connection point”. Basically questions along the way that confirm whether or not processes are similar or different.

    6. Churpairs*

      I essentially do this in interviews without telling them ahead of time. One of my final questions is:

      Based on what we’ve talked about today, and what you understand about the role, can you please tell me what your priorities would be in the first three months, six months, and first year?

      I mean, I don’t expect 10 minutes, but it’s the same concept. The answer to that question gives me a better understanding of whether or not we’re on the same page. (And to be fair – it’s not a test – it’s a discussion point.)

    7. cleo*

      I read it more as you’d be expected to lead the meeting for 10 minutes – you’d ask the panel questions about the role etc, listen to the answers, maybe make sure everyone on the panel spoke, and then summarize what you heard from them.

      My interpretation is they want to see how you gather information from a group in a meeting setting.

    8. Gnome*

      I think they are looking to see how you approach getting information, how well you synthesize it, and communicate it back. I read that they want you to lead the discussion as warning that they are evaluating your questions, probably looking for things like follow-up questions for items that might not make sense on the surface.

      Either that or they have had a bunch of folks not seem interested at all or don’t have a better idea on how to try and see how candidates approach problems and think.

    9. Willow Pillow*

      I don’t think I would call it weird per se, but I would call it unfriendly to a neurodivergent person like me who needs time to process things like job interviews and absorbs material better in writing. I’m good at interviewing now because I’ve used Alison’s suggestions and I know how to prepare, but I basically need to write everything down if I want to recall it in detail and that’s not really conducive to this type of conversation.

  3. Strange Share Fridays*

    What’s the strangest thing someone shared with you at work this week? I’ll go first.

    A new coworker told me that she’s getting a new tattoo this week and her tattoo artist accepts teeth as payment so she’s bringing him one of her extracted wisdom teeth.

        1. Tooth Fairy*

          Yeah for sure! I thought I had the monopoly on all things dental…but….here we are…..

          Hold my teeth — I’m going to round up the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus for a nice visit to the tattoo parlour.

          We ride at dawn.

          2. JelloStapler*

            Take Cupid with you, he keeps saying he feels left out and is going to start randomly shooting arrows.

    3. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      Oh wow. I have the coworker who uses swears in meetings and is all Imma leave this job but nothing like that

      1. kicking_k*

        Almost certainly! I’d be worried about that tattoo. It may compel you to dance in the woods all night.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          There are some people who would prefer the fae realm, but I’m not quite sure this is the way to go about it!

    5. Ano Nymous*

      I’m honestly not sure anyone can top this. But a coworker opened a new donation today (we’re archivists) and paused, before coming over and wordlessly showing it to me.

      I don’t know if the donor just….didn’t look in the box before mailing it to us or what, but there was an extremely mummified rat in the box. And no, it had absolutely nothing to do with the contents of what were supposed to be in the box.

      4. Sangamo Girl*

        Formerly a curator of a historic house museum belonging to an important dead white dude. We had mummified mice in the collection. Some poor grad student had to comb through the mouse nest, pulled from the wall of said important dead white dude’s house, for diagnostic materials. That little sucker had been in there since the early 1870s.

      5. kicking_k*

        No, can’t top it. Worst thing that shouldn’t have been there that I’ve ever found in an archives box is an extremely old rusty pistol. This is in the UK; we absolutely did not expect to find any firearms.

      6. Librarian of SHIELD*

        My best donation story is the time someone accidentally donated their underpants in a box of cookbooks, but you’ve just surpassed that one.

      7. AnonArchivist*

        Had this happen with a mouse once. It was buried under some papers. My student assistant started screaming. It was… a lot. Hazards of our field.

        1. Ano Nymous*

          We also found someone’s ashes in a collection once, that we definitely did not know were there.

          Yeah, building facilities ended up calling out the SWAT team, because it technically WAS a found “body”….so they had to legally make sure that we were not the reason that the person was deceased.

          Add that to the list of many things they don’t teach you in grad school about working in GLAM fields.

          1. AnonArchivist*

            Wow, never had that one. I did work with a collection that had human bones in it, but it was an Archeologist’s collection and we knew they were there from the get go. So, our museum helped us get them repatriated to the right folks. Super happy I got to make that the museum’s problem, not mine. You’re right- people don’t warn you about those ones.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              I’m so happy to hear the ancestral remains were returned! I assumed that was standard practice, until I learned a little too much about natural history museums.

              *side-eyes the Smithsonian*

          2. Database Developer Dude*

            That is completely and totally devoid of common sense. I’m just glad none of you were persons of color because it could have gone way south very easily.

            If it’s truly cremated remains, the person was already long since dead before the collection got to you. There was no need to call out the SWAT team. Your building facilities personnel are idiots.

    6. Anon today*

      I certainly can’t top that, but I do have a middle-aged coworker who, for reasons unknown, wanted to show off that she still remembered her patter from when she was a waitress in her youth. She walked around trying to take people’s “order” and pushing to upsell appetizers. One targeted “customer” had no idea how to respond so she just awkwardly clapped.

      1. Churpairs*

        Wait, like, hypothetically taking your order? She wasn’t actually collecting orders for a group lunch?

      2. Irish Teacher*

        Was this a one-off after she’d been talking about having been a waitress or something she did regularly? Either is weird, but I can JUST ABOUT imagine somebody telling people about when they’d been a waitress and saying “wait, I remember the patter” and then doing it, whereas if this were something she did on a daily basis, it would be extra-weird.

    8. Dust Bunny*

      We inherited a bunch of weird stuff from one of my dad’s uncles, including a small packet of teeth. The names on the packet were not those of relatives.

      He was a watchmaker/repairman so my best guess is that maybe he wanted the gold? It was still a bit creepy.

      (Having spent a lot of time surfing Etsy, though, I wonder if the teeth are going to some kind of artwork or jewelry.)

      1. Shhhh*

        Yeah, I saw some things on Etsy when I was looking for options for preserving my dog’s puppy teeth. Which I realize is also weird.

    9. Radish Queen*

      my deskmate told us that she pees in her own pool. we then had a discussion about who pees in their pools and who does not.

        1. Radish Queen*

          Somehow the topic of pools came up, others were like “I don’t like going to pools because little kids pee in them” and she was like “oh I pee in my own pool – I know how much chlorine I put in there”

    10. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      A couple of weeks ago, I was pulling things out of the washing machine and I heard the tiny click of an item falling back in, and thought “well, that sounds like a tooth.” (I previously would not have known that I know what a tooth falling into a washer sounds like, but there you go.)
      And, sure enough, a teeny tiny baby tooth.

      My kid is 24. He reports not having a lost tooth recently.

      All I can think of is a) it got trapped all this time in a zip up pillow protector that I washed recently, or b) time portal.

      Apparently there is also an option for c) tattoo coupon.

      2. PollyQ*

        Given that we know for a fact that dryers are portals to the Lost Sock Dimension, it’s perfectly logical for washers to be portals from the Lost Tooth Dimension.

    11. SweetestCin*

      I had a ridiculous meeting where a meeting attendee informed me that I was “so and so’s (blood relative)”.

      No. No I am not. I’m pretty sure I would know if I was. I politely indicated that he was mistaken, and that though I am friendly with that person and have worked with them on and off for years, I am not their (blood relative).

      He proceeded to say that “yes, you are.” and changed the subject.

      ::blinks:: It was a touch bizarre.

      1. Churpairs*

        Do you live (or have a unique last name to a family that lives in) a smaller town? I moved to my spouse’s hometown (800 people) and get volunteered genealogy lessons all the time.

        1. SweetestCin*

          Likely due to our age difference, people assume a familial relationship as opposed to mentor/mentee, with me being the mentee. The comment has cycled in our local industry over the years, with both of us chuckling and explaining. Our local industry does frequently have instances of familial relationships within it.

          The fact that he insisted that *I didn’t know I was related to my mentor though*, that was really really weird.

      3. JB (not in Houston)*

        I once had a woman at Sbux insist that I and the friend I was with must be identical twins, while my actual identical twin was sitting right there with us. She did not see any resemblance between my actual twin and I. My friend and I don’t even look like we could be distant cousins.

      4. MigraineMonth*

        I generally believe what people tell me. Maybe that makes me “gullible”, but at least I’m not like the person who kept insisting that my sister was not really my sister. Why would they think I was lying about their own family members?

    12. Amerikanka*

      A co-worker and my husband (who was meeting me for lunch) once got into a conversation of how when playing the “build your own roller coaster” computer game, they both like to make roller coasters where the track suddenly ends and the roller coaster cars fly off the track.

      I just don’t understand these guys (eye roll)!

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        This was a theme of many a Scooby Doo roller coaster in the secret tunnel underneath the haunted mansion.

    13. Anastatia Beaverhousen*

      I had a coworker leave the office mad when they were told they cannot leave their pet in the car in the parking lot all day after yelling “if someone doesn’t like it tell them to talk to me like a MAN about it”

    14. Mid*

      Is it bad that I really want to know the artists name? Because they seem like my kind of artist.

      Also, I am fairly certain I’m the weird coworker. Actually, I know I am. I recently had a hysterectomy (yay!), and have to take an hour off work next week to pick up my uterus from the hospital, so I can keep it, in a jar, on my mantle. Why? I don’t know, but I also collect bones, so it just seemed like something worth keeping.

      1. CatWoman*

        Both my Mother and my Grandmother kept their gallstones in little jars of rubbing alcohol…

        1. Sam Yao*

          Oh my gosh, they wouldn’t let my friend keep her uterus recently and she was so mad. And I am mad on her behalf. If you take an organ outta me, I want it back! That’s mine, I grew it! Nothing biohazardous about it.

          1. LunaLena*

            I *totally* wanted to keep my appendix in a jar after it was removed. I was very indignant after I was told that they couldn’t because it was a biohazard and that it had already been discarded.

            I just wanted it so I could put it on a shelf and be able to point to it and say “that used to be one of my internal organs.”

          2. Mid*

            I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get permission, and I’m also like 70% sure they’re going to bill me for the privilege. But I’m still very excited. I want to show it off. Apparently I had “unusually asymmetrical fallopian tubes”

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Apparently at one point University of Connecticut Medical Center had in its standard admission forms a provision that if they removed something from you in surgery they kept it. That was funny before I learned about Henrietta Lacks & HeLa cells…

      3. Not-that-grim-oire*

        I once had a significant amount of loose skin removed from my body several years ago. I am still kicking myself that I didn’t ask to have it given to me. (At the time, I was more than happy to have it gone GONE gone, and didn’t think beyond that.)

        But yeah. Should have kept it, tanned it and used it to bind a book.

    15. MissGirl*

      In a past role, a coworker lost an earring. She looked everywhere and asked around but no luck. She took the other earring out, obviously, and put it in her pocket. A few days later, I come in for my shift and she tells me she found her missing earring–in the EAR OF ANOTHER FEMALE COWORKER. Yes, this coworker found a random single earring and put it in her ear. As far as I know, my coworker never brought it up.

      2. squeakrad*

        I work on the job years ago at an insurance company that ‘ll remain nameless. I left my promise ring in the restroom and put up a sign offering “reward” if it was found. Not more than two minutes after I posted a sign a woman came up to my desk wearing the ring saying “oh is this yours?” I said “yes that’s the ring I left in the restroom thank you so much.” She looked PO’d and said “wasn’t there a reward?” I said “yes the reward is knowledgethat you’ve done a good deed for the day. Good for you!”

        1. HBJ*

          I’m sorry, but that seems crappy to me. If you weren’t going to offer a reward, don’t say you’ll offer a reward. I don’t think she’s at all out of line to expect she would receive one since you literally said there would be a reward.

          1. I'm just here for the cats!*

            The thing is people are more likely to return something if it has a reward. Its not like she said she would give a certain amount. Honestly I would have just said here’s $5 bucks, or I will buy you lunch tomorrow.

            1. HBJ*

              Exactly! It doesn’t have to be $500. It could be $5 or a couple candy bars or lunch. But if something says reward, it’s not out of line to expect a tangible reward.

    16. Anonymous for this*

      This is definitely hard to top, but I did have a call with a client where he told me about why he doesn’t wear seatbelts and also that he thinks his ex’s family has put a black magic curse on his family and also the pandemic was created by the government to separate people so we don’t talk to each other.

      1. Also anon*

        Oh goodness, I’m not allowed to talk about some of the things we hear, but I can say that untreated paranoid schizophrenia is way more common that I thought before starting here.

    17. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      A co-worker told me about how, when her dad got prostate cancer and had to have it removed, his sister who was a nurse paid for him to get a penile implant so that he could get erections post-surgery.

      Holy TMI Batman. I get that we were talking about my own bout with colon cancer, but I don’t need to know that level of detail about your dad. Not to mention how odd it seemed to me that his *sister* was so concerned with making sure he could still get it up.

      1. pcake*

        That reminds me.

        Years ago, my boss (and the owner of the club I managed) was in the hospital. His GF invited me to see him, so I went with her. It turned out he had a severely curved penis (I could have lived without knowing that about my boss, who wasn’t at all a personal friend), and they gave him that implant so he could get erections after the corrective surgery.

        He pulled it out and showed it to me. It was in what appeared to be a tiny cast. Soon after, I found an excuse to leave…

        1. Mac (I Wish All The Floors Were Lava)*

          The pitch and volume of my screaming gradually increased with every single sentence of this story– I think you win even over the teeth.

      2. The Person from the Resume*

        I actually find the TMI less shocking (people don’t know when to stop) than the detail about the sister for the exact reason you said.

        But I guess the fact that it happened and your coworker is happy to talk about it shows that the family’s boundaries might be far less than my own.

    18. Robin Ellacott*

      I read a great fantasy series once which starts with the heroine travelling the world collecting different kinds of teeth. You don’t know why for quite a while, but it’s a less horrible reason than Mr. Teatime.

      Did you ask what they do with the teeth? Because inquiring minds want to know!

      1. CatWoman*

        I once worked with a woman who trained search and rescue (think cadaver recovery) dogs. She would ask anyone having dental surgery for their teeth, as they were used in training the dogs.

      2. Despachito*

        I once met a couple who collected TOOTHMARKS of different people and maybe animals too, and actually the guy made me bite his arm to have mine. They already had things like a half-eaten apple.

        They were very nice and helped me out of an unpleasant situation, and this thing was for a game they were participating in, so it was not as weird as it sounds. I remember his arm was really tough and difficult to bite.

    22. talos*

      I just moved from the Denver area to a different state, and when I mentioned this to one new coworker, his first resoonse was “oh, mushrooms are legal there, right?”

      Which they are, at least in Denver proper. But it’s a weird first thing to say.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        That reminds me of a mildly funny comment from a few years ago in my workplace. One of my colleagues was talking about teaching a class about drug awareness to his students and somebody must have made some joke about him telling them his own experiences or something because he said he had never done drugs. Then another colleague put in that she had never done acid. Which…just sounded a little specific.

        Not really weird compared to the examples above, but it amused me at the time.

    23. Maya*

      I work with little kids, so I get a lot of interesting oversharing.

      “Mommy looks fat cause she has a baby in her tummy.”

      “I pooped two whole times yesterday!”

      Kids are interesting, man.

      1. Jora Malli*

        I used to teach preschool, and one day one of my kiddos marched into the room and announced “Mama has two babies in her uterus!”

    24. beep beep*

      That Coworker who doesn’t stop talking got me trapped on an office hours I was leading (no other people on the call, but I had to wait in case they did show up) and talked for about half an hour about “vampire bars” in New Orleans and how the people there actually drink each other’s blood. (No judgement from me, but there was an undertone of kink that I was a little uncomfortable with.) I did not get the chance to cut in that I don’t drink at all in the first place.

      1. The Person from the Resume*

        Hmmm … I’m from New Orleans and I can’t say I’ve heard of these bars. It’s not entirely impossible there’s a bar that allows it, but I’m sure there’s not multiple bars.

    25. New Mom*

      This was not from this week but it reminded me.
      B/G: When I was a teacher there was this really mean, eccentric and awful manager that wreaked havoc on the teaching staff at the school. She was very obsessed with people being in relationships and I never shared personal information with her.

      At the start of our second year we had a few new teachers and were doing an orientation and everyone was introducing themselves and giving a “fun fact”. One of the new teachers stood up and introduced herself and then shared that she had recently become engaged.

      Awful Manager dramatically started squealing in excitement (think very over the top and not appropriate for the situation) and then points at me and exclaims “How exciting! New Mom just got engaged too!” The new teacher congratulated me but it wasn’t true, at all. I did have a boyfriend but I had never said anything about being engaged or alluded to it even. Then I had to awkwardly correct her. I still don’t know her motivation for making that up. So bizarre!

  4. Panda*

    My new job has unlimited sick time. Can I use this for a mental health day like I would have used sick time in my previous job? How many days per year are reasonable?

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My housemate has unlimited PTO, including holidays. I get 33 days of PTO a year, including holidays. We’ve been at our respective workplaces about the same length of time, so he uses me as a benchmark and aims for about 30 days a year including holidays.

      1. KatEnigma*

        30 days PTO is the number a VP shared with my husband that you can take before they send your manager to have a “discussion” with you.

    3. Katie Porter's Whiteboard*

      I would absolutely use a day for mental health as you would for a cold or migraine. You don’t have to say “I’m taking a mental health day,” just say “I’m under the weather” or something similar. When it comes to how many days is too many, I would personally keep it under one a month and if I need more than that, it would be time for a reevaluation of my work and its impact on my mental health.

      1. ferrina*

        I was going to say this! It’s totally reasonable to use a mental health day as sick time, but I wouldn’t frame it as such. “under the weather” is great.
        I’d say one day every other month, if that, until you are more familiar with what the expectations are around sick time. And only take it when you need it- some years you may need more, some you may need less.

        1. Amerikanka*

          I would use the “under the weather” phrase too for mental health days. I have also been very general “I don’t feel well.” The nature of your situation is not their business.

          My work does not recognize mental health days, so I am vague with them when using sick days for mental health. I really do treat it like a cold or passing migraine (something that cannot be planned). I usually take one every 2 months or so but know everyone has different situations.

          I snap at people when I am extremely stressed and frazzled, so it is to everyone’s benefit that I stay home and rest.

          1. EdgarAllanCat*

            Same with the snapping when I have inadequate time off. I work in a satellite location and it’s like pulling teeth (pun intended) to arrange main office staff to fill in when needed. So I have to work 6-9 days/row sometimes.

            Then I hear complaints that I’m too blunt, direct, intimidating, etc. I told grand boss that my cohorts need to step up if they want to avoid CrankyEdgarAllanCat (CEAC). There’s a clear line between inadequate time away from work and CEAC.

        2. Green Tea*

          12 a year is way too high in most workplaces without an accommodation in place, especially since you’d be presumably taking additional sick days for physical ailments.

          I feel like 8-10 days of total sick leave per year would be the max I could take at my overall very work/life balance-friendly office without raising issues with my manager.

          1. The Person from the Resume*

            I think that’s too little overall. Lots of people take sick days because of a family member’s illness so parents will often use more than that.

            It just sounds like you’re very healthy.

            I mean I caught COVID and was out a week (5 days). I’ve been out for that much or more when I had the flu about 6 years back. And the stomach flu took me out for 3 or 4 days. Plus less memorable other 1 off days and appointments.

            1. Green Tea*

              That is fair. It would have been better if I had said ‘accommodation or for a specific explained situation’ as a manager is going to treat someone being OOO for Covid or family caretaking differently than 12 separate vague-reason absences. And the person asking is specifically talking about mental health days so they’re still going to need to take appointments, or might get the flu or Covid as well.

              I know that am very lucky to be healthy enough that I only need to take 2 or 3 sick days a year – but I’d say 90+% of the people at my organization don’t take more than 8-10 sick days per year unless it’s for situations like caretaking and approved in advance by HR.

        3. The Person from the Resume*

          I agree. 6 a year max for a “mental health day” is what I’d limit it to. I might even say 4. You will get sick with other stuff and (for me) take sick leave for medical appointment.

          Also I’d say keep an eye out for needing it. I use sick leave for unexpectedly being out. For me it’s more a terrible night’s sleep and knowing if I tried to work I just wouldn’t be able to focus and get my normal amount done. I totally say “I’m under the weather” or “ not feeling well.” If I know I’m burning out, but can make it through a few days, I take regular PTO which I schedule in advance.

        4. Minimal Pear*

          I love saying “under the weather”, especially when I’m using it for migraines that were probably caused by the weather. I sure AM under its oppressive weight!

      2. Mid*

        I like this benchmark–if I need more than one mental health day per month, I likely need to see what’s up with my mental health.

      3. Anonymous Koala*

        One a month sounds like a lot of mental health days to me…3-4 a year sounds more in line with what I’d expect in the average job.

        But that said, mental health days should be taken when they are needed. One person might need three in a row, and another person might not need any at all in a year. I think there’s a common misconception that mental health days are just leave days for when you don’t feel like working. In my book, mental health days are leave days that you take when working would interfere with your own mental well-being. It’s a much higher bar than just “I could use a day to relax”.

        1. Irish Teacher*

          I agree. Mental health is just as real as physical health and taking a day off for mental health reasons is different from “there’s a concert that day I really want to go to/my SO has the day off and I’d like to go on a day trip with him/her but don’t want to use my vacation time.”

          Not saying Panda would use it the latter way, but there does seems to be an idea out there that “mental health day” just means “day off” rather than “I need to take a day off BEFORE I start heading for burn out” or “I’m under a lot of pressure that is affecting my concentration at work and need a break.”

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      For a single mental health day? Yes, especially if it’s unlimited. In terms of what’s “reasonable,” I think that’d be between you and your manager to discuss.

    5. University Schlep*

      Yes, but sparingly. I probably wouldn’t do it more than 1 or 2 days a year unless there was a particularly bad crisis in my life. If it is status quo, then either my life or job probably need reassessing if it is needed more than that.

      Agree you don’t need to disclose that it is a mental health day vs. a physical health day. But I would try to make sure it doesn’t impinge the team too much e.g. holding off until Jane is back from vacation

    6. Anonymous Pygmy Possum*

      My first thought is yes, you definitely can use it for a mental health day. That being said, try to get a feel for the team and company culture. I also work at a company with unlimited PTO, and I am actively encouraged to take as much time as I need for whatever I might need it for. Though I imagine if I took more than a quarter of my work time off (say, 60 days without a very very good reason) it might be a problem, I feel like I have a great amount of flexibility and can pretty much use my PTO for whatever I want as long as my work gets done! But I could understand if there were companies or teams out there who didn’t look favorably on taking way too much time, so you really have to take a look at how other people are using it. I’ve noticed that my team members are pretty liberal about taking time, or at least more liberal than my last job without unlimited PTO – at least once or twice a month someone will take a day or an afternoon for themselves – which is why I feel pretty comfortable about taking time for whatever I need to.

    7. kiki*

      I have a similar set-up for work. I struggle with depression and usually end up taking 4-6 mental health days a year, though as I’ve gotten better at managing my depression, I’ve both needed fewer and can earlier identify when I’ll need a break and plan vacation time instead.

      1. kiki*

        I also have a job where I mostly work alone and don’t have many meetings. My job is very output based– people don’t really care when I do something as long as it gets done. On days I’m really struggling with depression, my output is at 15% or below whereas a day or two of recovery is restorative enough that my next days back in office will have me at 150% productivity. I think my manager understands it’s better to have me take the time out than to have me online but barely functional.

      2. Betty*

        I know Alison has made the point in the past that “time to manage a diagnosed mental health condition” is legitimately, unambiguously sick time, versus a “mental health day” as most people mean it (needing rest and recuperation for general well being).

      3. The Person from the Resume*

        It’s not the same thing. Depression is an illness ie sick leave totally appropriate.

        “Mental health day” is used somewhat jokingly as a day to relax because work/life is getting to you. I suspect it’s often tiredness or a lack of time to relax and chill. It’s the kind of thing that shouldn’t take multiple days to recovery from.

        If you have to take multiple days in a row then it’s more likely a mental health issue that requires a doctor’s treatment and not just a relaxing day off.

    8. Beth*

      My current job has unlimited PTO, but they can be iffy about how much time you can actually take (other than for being visibly sick). I aim for about 4 weeks total vacation time per year, spread out around the year.

      Since you’re new at your job, I would say: definitely take mental health days, but don’t spell it out that you’re doing so; be cautious over the frequency, especially in the first year; pay close attention, especially during your first year, to what the norms are in your new company. I would not take more than one such day in my first three months, and none at all in my first month.

    9. Rain's Small Hands*

      Absolutely, just be discrete (i.e. not posting to social media if part of your destress mental health care is getting a massage for instance, and I wouldn’t say “mental health day” just “I don’t feel well today and will not be in”)

      As to how many days, that’s going to depend on the environment and your own capital. But with unlimited sick days at my longest job I did try and keep sick days to an average of one a month or so in total – and I had little kids who were sick from daycare at that time. That was a really understanding job that it took a LOT to get fired from – but it was an environment where layoffs would happen every few years and that was their opportunity to get rid of the underperformers in a non-confrontational way.

      The other thing with that job was that “unlimited sick time” also translated to “if you come in late/leave early for a doctors/dentist appointment that’s fine.” I didn’t count those days towards how much time I’d taken, but I was aware of when I was scheduling those things – e.g. not over standing meetings when I’d be missed.

      1. Smithy*

        I do think that the reason so much of the advice is around figuring out how a workplace runs – is that a lot of these dynamics aren’t written down explicitly. I’ve had jobs where leaving in the middle of the day for an appointments but being there in the morning/late afternoon won’t count against your counted PTO/sick time – but late arrival/early departure would. And then I’ve had jobs where it’s the reverse.

        At some of those workplaces, my boss would tell me directly and at others I learned either from watching or being clued in by others. For people who appreciate or need more direct communication, I get how frustrating this is. So I mostly make this a plea for supervisors – please do not assume new staff can just pick this up. Some will, some won’t. And it just does not hurt to articulate what is the situation where you are. Too many people have too much past experience with weird work environments, that their normal may not be typical in any other context.

    10. Dasein9*

      Take one each month that does not have a 3-day weekend observed by your company in it.
      Every month should have at least one 3-day weekend, and DIY is just as good as official.

      1. Green Tea*

        If all of the person’s sick days just so happen to extend a weekend, their manager is going to notice. Plus, in my opinion, mental health days work best if you take them when you need them most, which might be a random Wednesday in a month that has a three-day weekend already.

      2. Chaordic One*

        Also, be aware that if you take them all of your sick days on the one day of the week that you are required to work in the office (as opposed to WFH), it might also look a bit suspicious and your manager might notice. (A good manager would recognize the folly of arbitrarily having workers come into the office when WFH works, but that’s a different subject.)

    11. HR Exec Popping In*

      My company has unlimited sick days as well on top of generous vacation and holidays. For us, with unlimited sick days we don’t really track them. We treat colleagues like grown-ups and ask them to not work if they are sick – and yes that would include mental health days. Rarely does anyone abuse this. But if they do, then the manager starts tracking and gives the employee feedback and discusses how excessive time off is hurting overall performance with it generally being dealt with through the performance process. Unless someone just stops works (very rare but it has happened).

    12. The Real Fran Fine*

      Go for it. And since it’s unlimited, use however many days you need for your mental health (just don’t take off every week, lol).

    13. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think it’s important to keep in mind the difference between a mental health day of “my mental health isn’t allowing me to function today for work” and “my mental health is better when I have more time off work.” If your reasoning is the former, that’s fine. For the latter, though, that’s what vacation days are for. If someone’s depression is making it hard to impossible for them to get out of bed, I don’t see that as any different from, say, a cold doing the same thing. Take the sick day. But “Boy, it’s been a rough week at the office–I think I’ll take Friday off?” Not really a sick day, IMO. Take the hit to your vacation for something like that.

      1. Velociraptor Attack*

        I think this is a really good point, especially if OP has unlimited sick time but not unlimited vacation because in that case, the unlimited sick time is to keep people from working when sick, which absolutely applies to your first example but not so much the second.

        As for how much, I feel like that’s something you really need to look at the norms in your office. I recently was deciding between two jobs, one with unlimited PTO and one with a total of 5.5 weeks between sick and vacation and I went with the specified time because, in addition to needing a number to incentivize me to actually take PTO, I was more comfortable managing that then trying to play the game of how much unlimited PTO is too much to take.

    15. Waiting on the bus*

      How often do you get sick overall? That would heavily influence how many days if feel comfortable taking for mental health reasons. As in, if you know that you tend to get sick multiple times a year I would limit myself to just 2-3 mental health days. If you’re generally physically healthy and unlikely to need to call out for more than two or three times a year, I’d say it’s fine to take more.

      But that’s mostly because personally, I wouldn’t want a reputation as the sick person of the office. I had a health scare a while back and while everyone in the company was amazing and very kind, it also made me deeply uncomfortable that everyone knew that I was sick. I was out for almost 10 consecutive weeks, so it was very obvious that something was wrong.

      So personally, I would shoot for something that will allow me to fly under the radar overall. Which depends on how often you tend to get sick overall and the general culture of your office. But hardly anyone is going to notice if you take 2-3 sick days a year for your mental health.

  5. Alexis Carrington Colby*

    My department structure has title levels of: Jr. Teapot Maker > Teapot Maker > Sr. Teapot Maker > Teapot Director. The titles are the same but the teapots involved are different. So I’m currently a Teapot Maker for all types of teapots (more complex and higher spend) and a teammate is a Teapot Maker for electric kettles (low spend). The Teapot kettle maker was recently promoted to a Sr. Teapot Maker because everyone left and she now manages the relationship with the outside vendors, whereas with my type of teapots, I don’t have the opportunity to move to the Sr. Teapot Maker role because the Teapot Director is more involved with my type of teapots so I don’t have the opportunity to manage the relationship with outside vendors.

    How do I go about talking to my director about how it’s not fair that there is no opportunity to move up to a senior role when I’m taking on the most spend and complex projects, even if the other Sr. is managing a relationship with the outside vendor? It seems like my position is capped, even though I manage the largest chunk of Teapot spend.

    1. Crazy Plant Lady*

      I think that a more productive conversation would be about what opportunities *do* exist for someone in your role/on your team to advance to a more senior role vs. framing it as “not fair that there is no opportunity”. There could be other ways that are specific to your team that you can advance or take on additional responsibilities that could lead to a promotion or advancement within your career.

      1. Smithy*

        Absolutely this. It may be that the way to advance is to show interest/openness in a less technical/complex Teapot category. It may also be that at for the OP’s specific teapot skill set there are larger employers who do hire Sr. Teapot Makers in that specialty that offers more of a bridge role reflective of the complex nature of the work. However, it would mean seeking opportunities at larger competitors.

        The answers may not feel fair compared to what happened to the peer, however it’s good insight the OP’s industry and will help them better prepare for next steps.

    2. I should really pick a name*

      I wouldn’t frame it in terms of fairness. I’d suggest asking what opportunities are available to you, and describing what you’d like to be doing and ask how to get there.

    3. Alex*

      Yeah definitely don’t frame it in terms of fairness. You can say that you’d really like to grow in vendor management and ask if there is a pathway for you to do that.

      1. Cringing 24/7*

        Absolutely this. The other department is irrelevant because (generally) department heads are usually allowed to run their departments differently and with different structures based on their individual needs. Approach it with the basic fact of the matter: you desire growth. Don’t bring a ton of emotion into it by comparing yourself to another person or talking about fairness, because it detracts from the main goal you want out of this conversation.

    4. Observer*

      How do I go about talking to my director about how it’s not fair that there is no opportunity to move up to a senior role when I’m taking on the most spend and complex projects, even if the other Sr. is managing a relationship with the outside vendor?

      You don’t. This is not school. If you approach the matter this way, you won’t get what you want, but you will get tagged as a “problem”.

      What you want is progression – salary, recognition, perks, title, autonomy or whatever else it is. So you think about what you want, then go to your director and point out that you are managing high spend, complex projects and you would like to be able to advance and this is what you would like that to look like. How can we make this happen?

    5. Bagpuss*

      I think you need to talk about your skills and resposnibilities which are different to / greater than those normally needed for the Teapot Maker role, and what, other than managing an outside vendor, would the firm need to see in order to be able togive yout the title bump.

      Also think about your skills – if managing the outside vendor is the only way to get that promotion, are you willing to move to a different department or role to get it.

      Ask about what you need to do ./ what skills are required to get the promotion

    6. Mockingjay*

      Businesses are usually pyramids. Openings above you may not coincide with the time that you are ready to move up. And roles fulfill business needs, not career needs. Your department is functioning fine as is – it’s larger and has a corresponding org hierarchy. Your coworker’s department is small and she can manage all the functions. As you said, your role is likely capped. So, options:

      1) As Crazy Plant Lady suggested, talk to boss about other opportunities. Training, transfers, what do you need to do to move up? And talk about timelines. As I noted, you might have to wait for an opening. What can you do in the interim for job satisfaction? Volunteer for a stretch assignment, take a online course…

      2) Consider that you might have to leave for growth. Sometimes you have to leave a very good company and job to move up, because growth just won’t happen for your role – it’s not needed from a business perspective. Your current company has sufficient teapot makers and managers and that may not change.

    7. My Useless 2 Cents*

      Is there any way to argue that you have enough experience and responsibility that you should also be a Sr. Teapot Maker? Just because you don’t have the relationship with outside vendor doesn’t mean your role hasn’t evolved to a Sr. position.

    8. JoeyJoeJoe*

      Agree with all the comments. Fairness doesn’t come into it – in the work world, luck plays a huge part. A colleague of mine (Cher) got a primo opportunity because the director of their team left. Cher had less experience than others, but knew that project inside out so got to be an acting director. She did well and was kept on as director. Others (including me) probably would have also done well but everyone understood the decision — it really did make the most sense. But I did reach out and ask about director opportunities and my boss clearly laid out a timeline and we went from there.

    9. HR Exec Popping In*

      This is not about “fairness”. Jobs exist to get work done and job level is based on the work that is needed to be done. Not everyone can or should advance to a higher level. That isn’t unfair – it is reality. Not everyone can become CEO – organizations only have one of those. Is it unfair that their direct reports don’t have an opportunity to become CEO as long as the CEO stays?

    10. Anonymous today*

      So I was thinking of asking for a retroa-active bonus. But I think this group has talked me off the ledge and convinced me that would be stupid. I think I have more growth left in this role and company, and I do want to set up myself up for future growth and not look like a green idiot in front of my manager (who is c-level)

  6. Anonymous today*

    I’d love some help with scripts to talk to my boss about being underpaid.

    I’ve been a team lead with dotted line reports for the last 6 months, and I just got officially promoted to manager with the team reporting directly to me (yay!). I can now see my team’s salary history, and I found one of my reports has been getting paid more than I was. We do have role levels that are aligned to performance, but they’re not aligned to salary. So my employee was a level 5 (making 95K), while I was a level 10 (making 90K). Now that we’re promoted my employee is at 100K, and I’m at 105…. which is fine with me for now. The employee’s a high performer and I want to retain them, and I wish I had their negotiating skills when I started this job. Also, I made those salary numbers up for anonymity and easy math.

    Clearly, my company needs to align the levels to salary structure, and it’s on my list of things to do now that I’m running the team. We have a decent HR team, and I’m pretty confident I can solve this for future hires.

    But I’d also need to address the fact that I’ve been underpaid for the last few months, and I’m trying to figure out how to approach that conversation. Right now I’m thinking the best route is to ask for a bonus….

    As background, everyone on the team is a generalist, so it’s not like I’m an engineering manager, and my top engineer is paid more than the manager due to technical skills. I’ve also been told repeatedly by my management that I’m the team’s top performer.

    1. Anecdata*

      Is your goal that the company basically make your raise retroactive/pay you back for the time you were underpaid?

      Unfortunately I think that’s pretty uncommon – would love to hear from commentators who’ve seen different, but ime when a company realizes they need to relevel, there’s no retroactive component (even when it’s eg. we realized our male teapot engineers systematically earn more than female teapot engineers)

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      So you want to tell your boss that you think you should’ve been making more than Sally for the last six months and they should give you a retroactive raise or something to make up for it? I don’t think that’s likely to get you anywhere, to be honest, especially if it comes out of “so I was digging through Sally’s salary history and I noticed…”

      1. JoeyJoeJoe*

        I agree with the earlier comments. I think you can make a push for a further raise (if you think you deserve it) but you aren’t going to get anything retroactively unless there was an admin error. I’d love to hear if others managed it, but it certainly didn’t happen in my case after I got a nice (20%-25%) raise after an audit discovered I was being underpaid relative to others in my role with my level of performance.

    3. My Useless 2 Cents*

      So am I understanding correctly:
      You were a level 10 making $90K and have been promoted to manager making $105K
      Coworker was a level 9 making $95K and has since been promoted (level 10?) to $100K
      You are both high performers and doing the same job until recently when you were promoted to manager?

      I guess my questions are 1) now that you are manager, how have your responsibilities changed? 2) do you have any idea what the current market rate for your current position is?/is the 105K similar to the wages being offered if you were to leave companies?

      Leave coworker and their salary out of the equation you are presenting unless you have a *very solid* historical imbalance argument at the ready. (ie. women typically paid less for same role as white cis male and that is very clearly what has influenced the pay discrepancy between you and coworker.)

      1. Anonymous today*

        I was a level 10 making 90K. Coworker was a level 5 making 95k. Our levels are basically unrelated to our salary. (new-ish company, we’re still establishing processes).

    4. HR Exec Popping In*

      While it isn’t common, sometime managers actually make less than their employees for a number of reasons.
      1) the employee is a long term high performer
      2) the new manager advanced quickly so they are actually less experienced and don’t have as many years of “raises” under their belt
      3) the employee may have previously been at a higher level and took a demotion which may have resulted in no pay cut or a cut to the maximum level of the new lower level position

      I’m not sure this is a “problem”. I understand being surprised that your employee was making more than you were when you were peers, but that really isn’t a bad thing.

      2. Anonymous today*

        So what I think happened is that my colleague was working in higher paid industries than I was for a good chunk of their career. Think 10 years in finance for them vs. 15 year in non-profits for me. The company needed to give them more to come over to us.

      3. JelloStapler*

        it can also be due to salary compression if the person is long term high performer but the company has had budget issues and raises/COLA is non-existent but they hire at a higher rate to get new people.

  7. Not Your Admin Ass(t)*

    I think I need to balance out the week I’ve had with some humor. So…workplace shenanigans thread time! Got any good ones?

    Sometimes, my sleep-deprived brain will swap out keyboard keys in my muscle memory. Recently, it decided to switch “P” and “F.” I work for a manufacturing facility where the majority of our business deals with our new and used parts service department, so there’s lots of informal text-chatting and emails with both customers and the parts people. You can see where this is going.

    A few samples I saved from that day:

    “The farts defartment will take care of that for you.”
    “He says the farts he just got are ‘all kinds of janky.'”
    “Are you wanting new farts, or are you trying to get rid of old farts?”

    And, my favorite of the bunch:
    “He says he didn’t oil before running, and he wants to know if it’s normal for new farts to smell like something’s burning.”

    Thankfully, the spellchecker squigglies alerted me to the grievous (but hilarious) errors I was about to commit, so none of them went out into the world. Though, now I’m wondering why spellchecker doesn’t recognize “fart” as a word, considering some of the other far more “creative” letter combos it does. Was there a previous farts defartment-related incident, before my time here, that got the word stricken from the dictionary? I can only hope so. New headcanon acquired. XD

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      Embarking on career exploration is hard especially with the gap between what is achievable for me and what the job market wants. Is anyone else rethinking things? ( my dr is like ugh get a different job although this job is nice and I did get 2 grand extra for no reason)

    3. Lady_Lessa*

      I had something similar last week. My dyslexic brain read multiple times “rainbow free unicorns” as “unicorn free” and I actually spent more time looking at the technical information because it was clear that it contained unicorns.

      2. Nathalie*

        Part of my old job involved confirming press release details with clients over the phone, and once I blithely said to a client, “And the headline is ‘XYZ Corp and Unicorn Announce Joint Venture'” (or something to that effect) because at that point in my life I had never heard of Unicom and my brain did not interpret the kerning correctly. The client was nice enough not to laugh at or correct me but I was so embarrassed when I realized it later.

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          Part of my job involves looking at people’s wealth, and some of those people work at start-ups. A start-up company valued at $1B+ is colloquially referred to as a “unicorn.” So I have read various articles with titles like “China Now Has More Unicorns Than U.S.” and “Acme Rockets to Unicorn Status with Latest Funding Round.”

      3. Squeebird*

        A member of our upper management (think assistant Director level) broke her arm years ago and had to use speech-to-text for her emails for some weeks. This led to some hilarity when it interpreted an email opening as, “Hello Sweetheart”, and she didn’t notice until it had already been sent.

        It’s been years and we haven’t let her live it down.

    5. installing updates (17%)...*

      “He says he didn’t oil before running, and he wants to know if it’s normal for new farts to smell like something’s burning.”

      Okay but is it normal? Please respond. It’s urgent.

      1. Not Your Admin Ass(t)*

        Given that my partner frequently refers to his as smelling like “burning electrical wire*” I want to know the answer to this, too.

        *I refuse to verify for him.

    6. Mid*

      A document that I was supposed to file in court, that had been reviewed by no less than 3 people, and myself twice, missed a very important letter in the word “count” and I only caught it right as I was going to file it. It was a PDF, so no squiggles, but apparently we need to alter our Word dictionary to ensure that misspellings of count aren’t missed again.

      1. Not Your Admin Ass(t)*

        I am rolling, and also remembering the number of people here who’ve had to flag similar words so that their releases *actually* say “public” and not…something else.

        1. Chapeau*

          I once had a coworker send a letter to a number of outside contacts where she listed her title as the manager of (not public) outreach.

          We worked at a Catholic institution.

      2. Dragon*

        Somebody filed a court document that said “stipulation of the panties,” instead of stipulation of the parties.”

      3. Puggie Mom*

        So, I was driving through a small Southern city a while ago. I was not familiar with this city and Google Maps was directing me. Then, out of the corner of my eye I saw a fairly large sign in front of a nice house down a side street on my left. I could have sworn the sign said “Rapist Association.” So, obviously, my brain went, “What…?!?!” I thought, well maybe that’s a place that offers counseling for offenders, or something?? Right, RIGHT?? But, what the actual..??? But, I was really looking for my destination and I had to keep driving on by. Later that day I made a point of checking the place out because, “Hey, I had to investigate what I had seen.” That’s when I found that city’s **Baptist** Association. So…. mystery solved and also, Whew!!

    7. Nathalie*

      In my office everybody has a name plate on the outside of their cubicle, and I was walking by someone’s desk and could have sworn it said their first name was “Eldritch” (it was Elizabeth). Very disappointing.

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Eldred would have been a possibility. (Apparently the medieval name became popular around World War I… but the old man I met who had that name did used a nickname his entire life!)

    8. My Useless 2 Cents*

      ManagerA was off on vacation Monday this week. ManagerA rarely takes a day off and worries constantly about things going wrong when they aren’t in the office. Last Friday another manager(B) was teasing ManagerA about computers going down while she is off so no work could be done. Come in on Monday and a program that 90% of the office use for their job was down and not going to be up and running for most of the day. ManagerB had to call/send almost everyone home for the day. I was one of the unlucky 10% that can do my job without program. ManagerB thought it was hilarious and was laughing all day about jinxing the company.

    9. Environmental Compliance*

      In a similar vein….

      I was trying to send a message regarding filter *socks* to a higher up. With people chattering outside my door, all I kept hearing was hard “k” sounds and somehow socks became cocks. Several times.

      I did catch it before I sent it but I did chuckle far too much at it.

    10. Chaordic One*

      Also similarly, I have an unfortunate habit of skimming and only reading the first part of a sentence or heading.

      Recently I came across a sentence which I misread as “Jane floats,” and I thought to myself, “Of course she does. This merely confirms that she’s a witch.” The entire sentence was actually, “Jane floats idea that blah, blah, blah…” Still, I’m certain that if placed in a body of water, Jane would float.

    12. The Jobless Wonder*

      It seems very fortunate that your employer isn’t, say, an equipment supplier to the NHL….

    13. Jelizabug*

      I went through a period of typing “results” as “resluts.” So grateful for the red squiggly lines!

  8. Need a Change*

    I’m currently an accountant who works for a local government. I would love to find a new role, preferably outside of government accounting. My entire career has been in government accounting and I’ve learned a lot of what I do on the job. I’m worried that I won’t know what I’m doing at a non-government role because I’m not sure how different the accounting rules are (GASB vs. FASB). I would be looking for Senior Accountant roles so presumably I’d be expected to work without a lot of assistance. Is there anyone who has worked in both types of accounting who can give me some insight into how different or similar they are?

    1. Tex*

      Not an accountant. But maybe look for companies that do government contracting work and need your experience as a stepping stone to other roles.

      1. Generic Name*

        That’s what I was going to say. I work for a consulting company that works on government contracts, and having an accountant with experience “on the other side” would be seen as a huge plus.

      2. KatEnigma*

        This. Contractors are forced to do their accounting the government way. As I hear my SO complain about weekly…

    2. nanscatsmama*

      I’m a manager in a local government accounting office. We have hired several accountants that have had non-governmental accounting experience that have worked out well. We have had accountants (even those with only governmental experience) leave for private sector jobs and appear to be successful (we keep in touch).

    3. Ann Furthermore*

      The biggest difference is that there’s no fund accounting (General Fund, Special Revenue Fund, etc) in the private sector. If you’re working for a company that does government work, or has gotten some kind of federal grant (or something similar) there might be some requirements around tracking how that specific pot of money is being used, but in general, it doesn’t apply. The basic concepts of debits, credits, balance sheets, and P&L statements are basically the same. Publicly traded companies also have to do a statement of cash flows as part of their statutory reporting (10-Q and 10-K), and I don’t know if there’s the equivalent of that on the government side.

    4. Accounting Gal*

      I’ve worked in industry as a staff accountant and now in government as a staff accountant, so I can offer a little insight. There are definitely differences and I think you will find that you’re “learning on the job” again similar to when you first started in accounting and were learning the difference between how it is taught in classes and how it is actually used in real life. I think whether taking the leap to industry in a Senior role will be a stretch depends more on what type of industry you go to (manufacturing? etc) as well as the company structure (are you going to be the only Sr Accountant in your department or will there be a large department of accountants who can help guide you some?). If it were me, I would likely aim for larger companies for that reason, but it also depends how quick of a learner you are! That being said if you’re a good accountant, once you’ll get up to speed I think you’ll like it more. I’m looking to move back to the private sector soon.

  9. Wifi out again*

    What’s everybody’s take on the power going out, VPN or wifi going out? How much should you be expected to accomplish in any situation and are you responsible for more if the issue is in your own wfh office?

    1. Taura*

      My company expects that if our (home) power or wifi goes out, that we come into the office and work the rest of our day from there. They control the VPN though, and the last few times it’s had issues it’s been ALL the VPN connections down at once, so they’ve not said anything about people not working for an hour or so while they got it running again. They would probably demand that we come into the office if it went down for longer than that though.

      Storm outages etc are a bit different in that if we start the day at home and power/wifi goes out due to weather and that weather would make it unsafe to come to the office, we don’t usually have to come in anyway and just discuss with our manager how to record the time.

    2. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I mean, these things have happened at our office, too, in a 10+ story office building. I think it is your responsibility to check email via cell phone, and if it’s more than temporary, work at a library or coffee shop, or at home with your cell phone as a hot spot. But then, I’ve worked remotely some of the time (a couple of days a week, and a solid week+ here and there) even before the pandemic

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        I think it depends. I don’t have a work cell & we are told not to use private equipment for work (government job with records requirements). Cell phones can be used as hotspots, but if the power is out, that can only last so long.

        A few years ago, my office lost power, as did much of our downtown area. I couldn’t WFH because I wasn’t set up with VPN yet (pre-pandemic) & I had no power at home. You can do your best, but sometimes things happen.

        1. The Cosmic Avenger*

          Very true. Even when I had VPN with credentials and PIV card, I didn’t need it for 99% of my work. But, being in IT and enjoying my gadgets, I do have enough backup batteries to power my phone and laptop for at least a full day…if I went out to my car and got the one that has jumper cables! But we’re contractors, if I am not doing billable work, I need to take leave unless our company says they approve overhead (which they will do in exigent circumstances, unlike many Beltway bandits).

    3. Llellayena*

      Enough to explore what the cause is and flag it for whoever is supposed to handle it (if that’s you because it’s a home issue, then make the calls to arrange to get it fixed). After that, unless it’s easy to pick up and go somewhere that does have access, have a nice day off! At least until you’re informed that it’s fixed.

      In my work, if the power is out at the office (which is…not infrequent), no one is working since the server is down too. Not my problem to fix at that point.

      1. Observer*

        The common power outages are kind of mind blowing for me.

        Like, why can they be fixed? And if you really can’t fix the power, have your folks never heard of backup power?

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          We had backup power in my building! I’m talking about a complete shutdown that even turned off the traffic lights.

          We could see some explosions from our office windows.

          1. Charlotte Lucas*

            And when we’re on backup power, our servers are still down. The power is meant for safety purposes alone.

        2. Llellayena*

          We’re in a town with lots of older trees and not fantastic power structures. Larger storms have a tendency to knock down branches/wires and take out power to half the town.

        3. Starfox*

          If you live somewhere with old infrastructure, a lot of old trees, and less-than-stellar tree trimming service, power outages are unfortunately very common.

          1. Observer*

            Yes, but backup is also pretty common.

            We’ve always had UPS’s for our servers, but that generally won’t work for longer outages. For that, we just had a generator put in – it won’t cover the entire building, but our server room will stay up.

        4. J*

          A previous job pretty much shut down if there wasn’t power. Our backup power was used to 1) keep the server running since it needed to be accessed by people outside our building, 2) keep the courtrooms in the building safe including members of the public, prisoners, judges and employees, 3) focusing on accessibility and exits (tall building with elevators and minimal staircases who couldn’t remain in the building unless they worked there). We didn’t want to burn out generators as we sometimes had shelter in place rules, like the time an inmate stabbed someone using a pen he found on a jury table. If that had happened during a storm but we limited our generator so my office could operate, it would have been very bad to end up in the pitch black 2 hours later with SWAT on hand. So it was a prioritization of resources – our computers being off kept the rest of the building powered longer.

          We had frequent outages because we were an old building in a historic neighborhood, had lots of trees, and actually a lot of flooding in the area that could take out the entire neighborhood’s power. We couldn’t just move the courthouse and the jail actually got more attention across the street.

    4. Sandra Dee*

      I think this is very job and situation dependent. A couple years ago, during financial close, which I have a critical role in the process, a tornado struck within a mile of my home. I did not have any damage, but also did not have power or wifi for almost a week. Everyone was very understanding, and I was aware of the critical nature of my position. I was able to get to a coffee shop that had power and wifi (and the coffee was critical for my brain functionality). If it was not a critical time from a work process perspective, I would have not worried about it until the infrastructure was more stable. After that round of storms, I bought a generator, so that I can stay home, take care of what needs to be taken care of, and can utilize my phone as a hot spot if needed.

    5. Decidedly Me*

      The reasoning matters, but the expectation is to find an alternate internet source (everyone is remote). There is no restriction on where someone works from so a coffee shop, library, friend’s house are all fine. It’s not an expectation that the second it goes down you should be running off to find something else, but if it’s more than a short term blip – find something else. Some folks with frequent outages (due to location) have back up internet sources at home (we do have an internet stipend).

      Reasoning definitely matters, as I said though! Snow storm take down the power/internet and roads are dangerous to drive? Please don’t go out – stay safe.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      For us (fully remote team, even pre-Covid), the rule is, if you can’t work, you have to log/clock out. Specifically, our limit for “being on the clock with technical work-stopping issues that isn’t actively spent on the phone with our help desk trying to resolve the problem” is 30 minutes – after that you have to clock out and either make up the time or take PTO, no exceptions.

      If your power or internet is out at home, you can go somewhere else to work, like you can go to a work site if possible, and that’s fine. If you were located onsite and the power or internet went out, the managers have the option to have people wait to see if it comes back on in which case people stay on the clock because they’re engaged to wait – but the general notion is, that’s a risk that folks WFH take. Because we’re remote, my team also has 24-7 flexibility which the onsite folks don’t have, so if they lose half a day because of a power outage, they have the opportunity to make up those hours at another point in the week rather than using PTO.

    7. Admin of Sys*

      Our job treats it as snow days, assuming you can’t come into the hybrid work location for some reason. By which I mean – no expectation of work, but if you’re not working, then you burn a PTO day for it.

    8. Generic Name*

      I think it really depends on your role and what the situation is. If you have an in-person role, like receptionist or working on a factory line, if the phones or power goes out, then yeah, you can’t do anything. I’m guessing most places would send folks home (and if you wanted to get paid, you’d have to take vacation time, which really sucks, but some employers suck). If you are a salaried professional with a laptop, I think it’s reasonable to expect that the worker would go to a location that has power/wifi. VPN is a bit trickier. I work from home a lot, so if the VPN goes out, I could go in to the office without too much hassle. If I were fully remote, I might ask a coworker who is in the office to email me needed documents or ask them to upload to the cloud and work that way. If the whole server is down, meaning nobody can access anything regardless of location, the expectation would be that you try to find something productive that doesn’t require server files. Is there training you could do or maybe reach out to a client or clean your office or something.

    9. Nesprin*

      One of the few things my company does well is leave for unavoidable things- we have power outages whenever fire risk is elevated and my work considers that to be leave due to unavoidable circumstances and pays for my time.

    10. WellRed*

      I am in the office today because my WiFi was particularly craptastic yesterday and I knew I had a lot of website stuff to do today. If I just needed to write, not a problem.

    11. Dragonfly7*

      Depends on what’s causing it, like if it is a widespread outage (especially weather related). If it is just my stuff at home, it’s either drive to the office or take PTO.

    12. Hermione Danger*

      As long as my laptop and phone batteries work, I can work from home using my phone as a hotspot (which is why I have unlimited data). And if the juice level on my devices runs low, I can head to a coffee shop to work. This means my employer expects me to put in a full day, regardless of the power situation. Though if it was due to a natural disaster, those expectations would probably change.

    13. Green great dragon*

      If you can reasonably do work by going into the office or doing something offline/off VPN such as background reading, do that. Obviously if you find out at 9am that your wifi’s down and can’t get into the office until 10.30 that’s fine. If there’s genuinely no alternative, you get a free day.

      Quite a lot of people though will just take PTO/flexitime to cover it rather than trekking into the office when they didn’t plan to or doing low-priority work.

    14. MurpMaureep*

      My personal view as the manager of a mostly remote team is that staff should make a reasonable effort to get as much work done as makes sense, while also taking care of what they need to take care of. So if the power is out for a short time, don’t sweat it, but for a muti-day outage, make arrangements to come into the office or work elsewhere (we still have ample office space, it’s just not used). If there’s a connectivity issue that’s not on them, e.g. hardware/software/VPN problems, that’s our employer’s problem and I don’t expect people to work if they are being precluded from doing so. Sometimes I’ll suggest doing some professional development or reading up on a topic that’s at least work-adjacent, but I don’t police that.

      My institution’s policy is open to interpretation and “manager discretion”, but I also don’t expect staff to take PTO in these circumstances (others have disagreed with me…but that’s the beauty of “manager discretion”). Then again I think that people are more productive when they are not stressing about making up a couple hours when their internet was out.

      I used to work for a woman who was pretty unreasonable in this area, and what I observed is that we all spent more time complaining about her rules than the actual time we lost due to some glitch. For example, if the power went out in the office, she’d try to make people take an hour of PTO…and of course the complaints about this spanned multiple days and made everyone more bitter!

    15. beach read*

      My provider had an unbeknownst ”scheduled ” maintenance that kicked me offline for 8 hours, but I was able to drive to a friend’s house to work. Wound up losing about 2 hours for which I was required to use my own time. Understandable.

  10. ThatGirl*

    My company merged this year with a slightly larger company — well, that’s what it said on paper; in reality they acquired us. But whatever. The point is, we’ve been told that now that we’re twice the size we used to be (roughly 7000 employees), our benefits will get better. I would expect things like “an extra floating holiday” and “insurance premiums go down a bit” but has anyone been through something similar, and did they actually improve markedly?

    alternately, one of my coworkers joked that we’d all get Mustangs so what are some truly wild things that won’t happen? :)

    1. Snow Globe*

      I went through similar a few years ago. Our overall benets didn’t change significantly—we were a pretty large company even before the merger, so most benefits are fairly “standard” for a corporate job. What I liked though is that they went through all the benefits and generally whichever company offered the best benefit in any one category, that’s what the cobined company went with. So acquiring company A had more sick time, we went with that. Acquired company B had more parental leave, we got that. I guess they didn’t want anyone to feel like they were losing a benefit that was important to them.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Yeah, it’s not like any of our benefits are terrible – 3 weeks of PTO + 2 personal days and a floating holiday, unlimited sick time, fairly standard health insurance options etc – so I expect this process to go similarly. I definitely don’t expect anything to get worse, but I’m wondering if the hype is a little much :)

    2. mreasy*

      My husband’s company got bought by a much larger one and they pay for employee, spouse, and kids’ benefits. So I no longer have a personal health insurance bill! The coverage is also awesome.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Can you check out reviews etc on sites like GlassDoor or Salary.com to see if you can sort out what the bigger company was offering for benefits?

      My guess is that you’d end up with whatever is easiest for the HR dept to manage, which is probably what Bigger Company has been doing all along.

      1. ThatGirl*

        We’ll find out soon enough anyway, there’s a meeting next week, but I suspect you’re right. BiggerCompany has taken over most of the corporate HR functions anyway (another reason it feels more like an acquisition).

    4. Super Duper Anon*

      I work in a Canadian office of a global company that acquires a lot of smaller companies. Last year they bought a company with its HQ in a different Canadian city. We didn’t switch benefit providers, but they went through the benefits of the purchased company and got all of the Canadian offices aligned on benefits, matching what the best options are from the different plans, so we all have the same amount of coverage. It worked in my favor as the the new company actually had better benefits than we did, so my coverage for some items went up.

    5. A Simple Narwhal*

      My husband’s company got acquired, and his benefits improved significantly. Granted the size differential was very different from yours – he worked for a start-up that had about 100 people when they were acquired by a 5,000 person international company.

      It was your standard startup situation – great pay, lousy insurance (low coverage, high deductible, etc). With the new company the insurance is fantastic – inexpensive, full coverage, also inexpensive to add family members. And best of all, he now gets fully paid paternity leave, which was definitely not a thing pre-acquisition. There’s a quarterly bonus structure the new company has that he’s now a part of, which is definitely a plus. The only “loss” was going from unlimited vacation (that my husband was encouraged and able to take advantage of) to a set amount, but the amount is pretty generous so between that and the extra paid holidays the acquirer offers that the startup didn’t, it’s honestly not going to be a noticeable amount, it’s more of a change in how he thinks about it and the extra step of logging the time off in a system. Though he’d actually get paid out for those days if/when he leaves, so it evens out for the most part.

      So it is possible to have a noticeably positive change in benefits, but I’m sure experiences vary wildly. I’m rooting for you to get your Mustangs!

    6. Ama*

      This happened when my husband’s company was acquired last year (they were very small, only about 15 full time employees and the new company is already about 100 employees). I do think his insurance covers a bit more than it used to and for employees themselves they cover 100% of the premiums (you do pay part of the premium for spouses/dependents). They also covered some upgrades to his home office equipment because they are primarily a work from home company so he got a very nice new monitor and docking station, and their bonus structure is extremely generous. The original company already had one of those unlimited PTO structures so there wasn’t any change there although they were told that if they don’t take at least three weeks of their time each year they get emails from HR reminding them to take more time off — don’t know if that’s actually true since my husband is not shy about using his PTO.

    7. installing updates (17%)...*

      Something really similar happened to a couple of my friends this year… Their benefits actually got worse, but they tried to frame it as if they’d gotten better.

      e.g. before acquisition they had offered something like 8 weeks of paid maternity leave, another 4 weeks unpaid (basically, FMLA, but 8 weeks of it were paid). After acquisition, it was reduced to 2 weeks/80 hours paid… but it was extended to non-birthing parents, too, and they laid really heavily on that latter fact while basically ignoring the 75% reduction in paid time.

      Their health insurance plans also switched to a higher deductible option… and premiums went up, too, at least for people with spouse/family coverage. One of the friends did mention she got a raise as her role expanded with the merger. However, the hike in premiums and out of pocket medical expenses wiped out the gains.

      I have no way of knowing this will or won’t happen to you, though.

    8. Hillary*

      when my employer acquires companies (although that’s usually a much larger size differential) a couple things happen immediately. 1) Immediate safety assessments and remediation if needed. 2) New employees go on our benefits. 10,000+ employees = reasonably inexpensive, good health insurance. Dental, company paid life & disability insurance, EAP access, 401k match and ESPP, all of that. It’s much easier for the employees on day one when they find out that their health insurance bill just dropped by half or more. They also get our parental leave etc on day one. 3) wage assessments. hourly pay is immediately raised to the company minimum wage for that geography (not legal minimum). More adjustments up come as they assess salaries and bring people up to our value assessment for their area.

      it’s pretty rare that the acquired company has better benefits than us, but if they do the better benefits stick around for at least a couple years. That’s mostly been around vacation amounts & carryover for extremely tenured employees.

      I would expect health insurance to get less expensive and better for 2023 or 2024 (depending on when the merger happened the 2023 agreements may have already been negotiated). I’d also watch my paychecks because mistakes happen during these transitions.

    9. HR Exec Popping In*

      Unless one company has a substantially different benefits package than the other I would not expect much change. If this was an acquisition – one company bought the other company – and if the buying company is fully integrating the new company into their existing company (they don’t have to) your package will become whatever they currently have. You can likely google their benefits to get an understanding of any differences. If it is a true merger and they are again integrating the two companies they might start from scratch and look at the total rewards for both companies, compare and contrast and either go with one plan over the other or develop a new package for all employees. But again, if these are similarly sized companies chances are the changes will be small. A change in health care insurance company and premiums a little. Maybe a new vacation schedule or holiday schedule. Possibly moving everyone to a similar retirement plan. But generally not much more. UNLESS, one company has a significantly lower total rewards plan. If they do, the company needs to determine if it makes sense to fully integrate everyone to a single plan as doing so will increase overall costs significantly. They would have determined that during due diligence before closing the deal.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Legally… it was described as a merger. But the culture aspects and leadership feel like an acquisition. Regardless, nothing changed for us this year, but we’ve been told there will be changes coming. I agree that it’s likely go be small stuff, but we shall see.

    10. Ann Furthermore*

      I’m going through this now. My small company was just acquired by a larger one. Dollar for dollar, the insurance premiums are about the same, but what I think will be better is that I don’t think the plans will change as often. Because the company I worked for originally only had about 50 people, they shopped around for better insurance plans each year, so sometimes the plan would change annually, which was really a pain. I get why they did it, but it was still such a hassle. One year it was a plan that was great for the local people, but for remote employees (like me) they sub-contracted with some other company and the network wasn’t very good. My husband had to change doctors. I’m hoping a larger company with more purchasing power will have some more leverage.

      What’s definitely better is that there are more vacation days accrued each year, a 401(k) match, and a company shut-down between Christmas and New Year’s. I absolutely love taking that week off and have always tried to do it every year, so I’m glad it’s a company standard, even if you have to use PTO to do it.

    11. Gnome*

      My company acquired a few last year and said similar things – benefits would be as good or better regardless of which company you had been at. They just announced a bunch of it. Some are getting a new floating holiday (nobody lost any), there’s new parental leave, slight improvement to the vacation time accrual (a bit faster to get more days). Not sure yet on insurance and such… But that doesn’t re-up for a bit yet.

    12. kiki*

      I went through something similar and the biggest net positive was the health insurance. Since we were larger, we were able to get a plan with more coverage and less expensive premiums. Otherwise, I didn’t notice much of a difference. I think we gained one holiday we didn’t have before.

    13. Hermione Danger*

      I went through that once. Our benefits got measurably worse. Less PTO, AND they made us burn a week of it when it came time to match our pay schedule (twice a month) to theirs (every other week). So we all either got paid for only one week’s work at the end of the calendar year, or we burned a week of PTO because of the way the adjustment needed to happen. On top of that, the 401(k) match was worse, we lost profit sharing, and our insurance got worse as well.

      Bigger companies often don’t have better benefits, so I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    14. J*

      My husband and I have both been few a few mergers. I’ve seen times where I got a better insurance system, so suddenly I had the Rally benefits (which gets me $20/month if I work out + free Peloton for a year) or lower co-pays on certain medicines. The other company in my last merger had volunteer time built into worker plans so my workplace got that. I also got half days before holidays. I don’t think I’ve ever seen cheaper insurance rates long-term, sometimes for year one but after things stabilize that goes away. My husband’s work did an entire audit on all the staff globally and gave everyone new titles and pay that landed him $15,000 more a year, but they’d also held off on raises beyond cost of living the previous year while the merger was being worked out so it may have been more related to that. I think our maternity/paternity policy got a review with our new handbook and that got made better than either original policy was too.

      Generally what I’ve actually noticed is that after an annoying period, they change software across the company that can make your work day easier. I got a new expense reimbursement system last time that upgraded our archaic one so I could use an app and get paid in days instead of months, which felt like a perk. We also all got new chairs because our merged company had a chair client that was not totally on board with sticking with our new giant sized company, so we bought chairs and they kept us. That was very exciting. The new firm was also more radical than we were and they taught my firm’s teams to fight for more and within 2 years they all had work at home stations in place in December 2019, paid for by the firm. That paid for itself in the end but they didn’t know it then.

  11. J*

    Happy Friday Team AAM! I’d love some advice. I graduated in 2017 with a bachelors in psychology and 2021 with an MS in Organizational Psych. I have one HR internship under my belt (admittedly a few years old) and transferable skills from other work I’ve done. I’ve been trying to break into HR for a while now, but with no luck. For the past few years I’ve been working a finance job to pay the bills and I’m worried that people won’t look past that experience. Recruiters keep contacting me regarding finance roles and when I try to pivot the conversations/emails to HR roles, nothing pans out. Any advice? Are there any roles for someone with my background that you would suggest? Finance makes me miserable (the words quarter/month end close makes me want to scream) and I’m willing to do anything at this point. Thanks for the help and solidarity this community always provides!

    1. ABK*

      Is your cover letter clear that you are looking for an HR role? If not, that’s the first place to start and I would also revise the resume towards HR skills, etc. It’s not clear if you are actually applying for HR roles, but if you are, maybe an HR role at a financial company would be a good start?

    2. El*

      I highly recommend trying to find Compensation Analyst or Compensation-adjacent positions to start out. I work in Compensation right now, and it’s a pretty even split between people that started in finance and people that started in HR. I’ve also seen a large portion of our team use this as a network to move into the other side of the business [either HR going more finance by getting into Payroll or finance-types moving into the technical recruiter or HR business partner space]. It might not be where you end up full-time, but it really is that bridge I think you could use to more easily make that change.

    3. Snow Globe*

      In some small businesses, HR is a generalist that also handles payroll, administering insurance plans, etc. Maybe look for something along those lines, where there is overlap with financial duties?

    4. Toasty*

      Are recruiters contacting you via LinkedIn? It might be helpful to change your headline to something that highlights your qualifications in HR and finance (not just HR if you’re concerned about optics with your current employer). That way your HR qualifications will be visible in searches when recruiters are looking for candidates.

    6. Panicked*

      I was in a similar situation; my BS is Psych, my MS is in I/O Psych. My suggestions are to get HR-related certifications. I got my aPHR and a few other free/low-cost certs (Second chance hiring, employing veterans, a few ADA related ones) to pump up my resume a bit. A tailored cover letter that explains your relatable and transferrable skills is also really key. Don’t underestimate the power of networking. Join your local HR groups- I have had a lot of luck with my local SHRM chapter, but there’s a lot of professional organizations you can get involved in. Power up your LinkedIn profile and be active and engaged on it. Connect with people in HR-related spaces.

      In the end, I worked as an HR Department of 1 for a year in a start-up, then used that experience to move to bigger employers. You may have to take an HR assistant role for awhile to get your foot in the door and get experience, but once you have a year or so in, apply for generalist jobs. Good luck!

      1. Career Witch*

        Fellow I/O psych person and I second the point about certifications. HR as a field is obsessed with them.

    8. HR Exec Popping In*

      Depending on what you do in Finance, some options would include targeting roles in:
      – Compensation
      – Benefits
      – HR Services
      – People Analytics

      Once you get into HR and prove yourself you would be better positioned to then gain broader HR opportunities.

      HR is a hard field to break into without direct experience so play your internship up and lean in toward Finance-like HR jobs as hiring managers will be able to understand how your skills will apply. A compensation or benefits analyst are likely your best bet unless you are a reporting wiz with strong statistical and systems knowledge. Then I would recommend People Analytics as that is a quickly growing area and I truly believe is the future of HR.

    9. Policy Wonk*

      You could try government – go to USAJobs and use Human Resources or Personnel as your search terms.

    10. Jackie Daytona*

      I worked in finance for years and then ended up working in employee benefits. This was partly because in finance I handled payroll and some of the benefit administration, but also because I showed that I had incredible attention to detail and ability to reconcile, audit, and troubleshoot around that, which was something my next employer really needed in building systems that would allow for smoother enrollments and reporting after renewals, etc. Depending on the type of employer, a lot of HR professionals work very closely with their finance teams, so find some common ground there and you might find potential interviewers really understand where you’re coming from or what you’re capable of. Taking a class or two, especially towards getting certified in HR, is a great idea and would demonstrate your interest. But you can also play up/play to the areas in finance where you did have exposure to HR issues or concerns – compensation, how business decisions are made with regards to people and talent, maybe you utilized HRIS or CRM systems and can go that route, etc.

    11. J*

      Thanks for the advice everyone! I really appreciate it. I’m definitely going to start looking into additional certifications and revamping my job search!

  12. Renee Remains the Same*

    I’ve recently been interviewing for jobs and have come across an interesting phenomena where HR folks call my cell during the day to apparently talk about the job or schedule an interview. The voicemail message is usually general:

    Hi, I’m so-and-so from Company X calling about your application for Position. Please call me back.

    When I submit my resume, it has my email on it. And yet twice, I’ve had HR repeatedly call me, even after I’ve told them that it’s hard for me to talk on the phone during the day and give them my email again.

    Is this a new development or just a random occurrence? I find it kind of irritating and while I know I shouldn’t fault an entire company for weird practices of individual people, if HR doesn’t recognize that a candidate with a current job is unable to talk on the phone, I do kinda question the organization’s culture.

    1. Renee Remains the Same*

      To clarify – It wasn’t one person calling twice. Two different organizations are calling my cell rather than emailing me directly.

    2. Katie Porter's Whiteboard*

      From the HR perspective, I wonder if those phone calls help speed the process up by letting them speak to an applicant directly rather than wait on an emailed reply. That said, I think it would be fair to follow up by email and say “My current schedule makes it difficult to be available by phone but I’m able to quickly respond to emails. Would it be possible to be in touch by email on future correspondence?” If they ignore the request, it would tell me the HR person on the other end isn’t the most thoughtful or competent but I would hold off on painting the whole company with that brush.

      1. Renee Remains the Same*

        They certainly might… except the strategy seems to be to call and then wait for me to return the call. They don’t follow-up with an email after not catching me on the phone. So I would argue it only slows down the process. I could respond via email to one of them — for the other, the initial contact was made by phone so I don’t have the representative’s email address

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I wouldn’t read too much into it. Ability to take a quick phone call during the work day varies greatly (especially with the boom of remote work) and they may just find it easier to talk through details in real time if possible.

      It’s annoying that they still call you after you say you prefer email. That could be lack of organization – which isn’t uncommon in a hiring process and isn’t necessarily indicative of the whole company culture – or it could be something else you’re not going to be able to guess at from the outside.

      I totally get it as a pet peeve, that would bother me two, but I wouldn’t take it as a red flag unless you have other indications in the hiring process they’re especially inconsiderate or rigid. Just take it as another piece of information to the greater context, basically.

    4. FashionablyEvil*

      I think you might be expecting a bit much this early in the process in terms of expecting them to follow your communication preferences.

      When you call back, can you offer them some times you ARE available? Our recruiters do an initial phone screen (usually about 15 minutes) to ask some general questions about interest, location, and salary requirements and for the candidate to ask some initial questions. They just don’t do email for this.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        My only caveat to that is if there has been communication that OP has a hard time taking phone calls during the work day, they should specify that’s what they’re looking for and indicate the amount of time it will take so that it can be scheduled during a lunch or something.

        1. Renee Remains the Same*

          I usually get their voicemail when I return the call and let them know it’s hard to talk on the phone during the day and give them my email again.

          1. Eldritch Office Worker*

            I realize I might have used too many pronouns and confused my sentence – that’s exactly what you should do, and the the HR representative should respond to you and tell you they are trying to schedule a phone screen and ask for some times that might work for you. Those might be before or after work, or on a break, but it will be much easier to coordinate if they tell you what they’re looking for and how much time they need.

      2. Lucy*

        Most employers do a phone screen, but can’t they schedule the phone screen by email? I get that it’s faster for HR to call and schedule it over the phone (if the person answers), but a lot of people aren’t available even for a quick call during the day because they are working. It’s not so much about communication preferences as it is about availability and practicality.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      Unless you’re desperate for a position, I’d just ignore those. No point in rewarding that sort of behavior.

    6. Librarian of SHIELD*

      I think this is just an example of some people being phone people, and some jobs/companies doing more business by phone than by email. I’m not a phone person and I’m in customer service so I’m frequently in a position where taking a phone call won’t work for me, so I get why you’re annoyed. But as long as they’re not annoyed with you for not taking their call immediately and they’re not continuing to call after you’ve expressed a preference for email, there’s no major lines being crossed here.

      1. Renee Remains the Same*

        They’re continuing to call. One of the organizations called and left a voicemail to say they would try me again at another time (a few hours later). Email exists, it’s useful, and can accommodate all manner of schedules and situations – why not use it to establish initial contact and set up parameters. Especially in this day and age of spam, where unknown numbers are more likely to be ignored. It just feels incredibly antiquated to me.

        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          Emails can also end up in people’s spam folders, especially if the sender uses a vague subject line, which many recruiters tend to do. Also, remember that recruiters and HR people are dealing with many, many candidates at the same time. So the odds of their remembering your specific communication preference at an early stage in the process are low, because they probably are communicating with many people in the same way.

          Of course, they should communicate via your preferred method, but if they ask for a phone number, you can assume that they might use it – even if you don’t want them to do that.

    7. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      I work at a place that really really really emphasizes the phone for conversations about hiring, even at the interview stage, to the point where I am specifically asked if I have called. I prefer to send someone an email letting them know I would like to talk today if/when they can and let them know to call me back so they can suck into a conference room or whatever.

      Just thought it was worth context that despite Alison’s advice to use email there are enough “phone people” or old school senior managers that you’ll sometimes get the phone instead.

    8. Anon today*

      This has happened to me multiple times in the last month as well. Recruiters/hiring managers call me, without warning, in the middle of the workday, and act like it’s completely normal and not at all an inconvenience. Very rude and definitely makes me think a little less of the orgs.

      1. Roland*

        I mean, it IS completely normal. I understand it not being someone’s preference but they’re not doing it to spite you, it’s just how many workflows are set up.

        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          I used to sit next to someone who coordinated all the temporary tellers for a large bank. She was on the phone talking to recruitment agencies for at least 6-7 hours a day, and the sheer volume of work she had to do made me think there was no way she could have done that job primarily by email.

          Recruiters talk on the phone so much because, in a lot of cases, it’s just more efficient for them, as opposed to the people they’re calling.

        2. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Yes! Y’all, this is a completely normal part of hiring. You might not like it but it’s not going away, tons of orgs do it, and it’s because at that stage with lots of candidates to talk to, they’re doing it the way that’s most convenient for them. There’s really nothing more to it than that.

    9. I should really pick a name*

      It could be a case of the person who viewed your resume passed your number on to HR, but didn’t pass on your preference for email.

      A phone screen is very common, so I don’t think you can read anything about the organization’s culture into that.

      That being said, if they’re calling you during the day again after that first call, they don’t really have an excuse anymore.

    10. M*

      When I first started scheduling interviews in my career, I was taught to call first as I’m likely to get a faster response. Some people aren’t checking their emails regularly or the email could go to spam. Also, often I was trying to schedule 3-5 interviews for an interview panel and the faster I could fill one spot in for the panels calendar the easier it would be to schedule the rest of the interviews. I wouldn’t hold it against someone if they couldn’t pick up though for the reasons listed here (working, not able to talk etc) and I would always leave a voicemail with suggested interview times and follow up with email.

      For the record I am *not* a phone person, I am terrified of calling people! I was just trying to prioritize speed. If someone had told me they preferred email then I would be relieved heh.

      1. Ali + Nino*

        Re: being terrified of calling people, at least in this situation people are presumably happy to be hearing from you and scheduling an interview!

    11. Sundial*

      My experience has been that a recruiter
      /HR rep who insists on phone conversations is often doing that so you won’t have a paper trail of them making promises to you. This usually means the pay is subpar.

    12. Gnome*

      I wouldn’t look too much into it. They have your number just as much as your email and they are using it. Nothing weird about that, especially since there are lots of people who can’t check their email at work, just as there are ones who can’t take calls. Also, lots of people don’t want to check their personal email from a work computer (or can’t) or otherwise give an opportunity to tip of the employer.

      Also, I have seen email just not make it to the sender enough times that I can understand wanting to at least know they got the message (and hearing “you have reached…” Is usually confirmation that you at least got the right person).

      Still, they should say more than “call me back” – like when they will be there, what sort of timeframe they are looking for (next week, Tuesday or Thursday, the next two weeks), and the like.

      You might want to have a voicemail that says something like, “I generally can’t return calls until after 5PM, so for urgent messages, it’s best to follow your voicemail up with an email.”. That will make it clear.

  13. Amber Rose*

    I’ve been tasked with organizing some kind of celebratory event for the company’s 20th anniversary next summer. And now you have exactly as much knowledge about what they want as I do.

    Where do I even start? Organizing a Christmas party or a team building event is easy because I already know what’s expected. What does one do for a business anniversary?

    I was just feeling good about the party planning and then this landed on my lap. D:

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I am also planning a 20th anniversary party for my firm! Is this for employees or for clients? Ours is mostly for clients, and will likely be just a really upscale cocktail party and a nice venue in the city. We may hire a jazz trio or something. We send out physical invitations (like you would for say, a wedding) in addition to emailed invitation. Other than that, it’s a corporate party like any other for us ;)

      1. Amber Rose*

        I’m going to assume mostly staff. Our customers are worldwide, so the odds of any of them showing are pretty low. We have done open house events before though, so maybe I’ll run that by management and see what they want.

        Otherwise I’m thinking of booking out a restaurant somewhere, taking everyone out for lunch and letting top give speeches.

    2. Policy Wonk*

      I haven’t had to plan any myself, but have attended them. This is different from an internal event. I’d guess you’d want a big reception of sorts, with branded 20th anniversary swag. I’d assume there is a public affairs aspect so if you have press people rope them in early. I’ve seen people design modified logos to incorporate the number 20, have photo displays (either real or on line) showing then and now – essentially a retrospective. Some sort of honoring of employees that have been with the company since the beginning. That kind of thing.

      It’s a big undertaking – good luck!

    3. enough*

      The basics would be the same. Food, drink, location, possible entertainment. After that how do you want to acknowledge the last 20 years? Banner, pictures, speeches/stories from higher ups, long time employees? Whatever shows the growth, progression of the company. Do you invite selected past employees? Ask the higher ups what they would like? Do not recommend a barber shop quartet but a special cake with related decoration displayed and served as dessert might be nice. (90th anniversary a long time ago).

    4. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Pretty much the same stuff you do for holiday parties — food and decoration, maybe music and dancing if that’s in your culture, a few speeches/toast from the top people. If your company has an archivist or someone who’s been around all 20 years, you could interview them for some historical facts, personal stories, or see if folks have photos from things like a ribbon cutting or grand opening — make a printed program with the information. If there are any well-liked retirees from the company, you could invite them back for the celebration. If your business is a BIG DEAL in your city, you could invite dignitaries like the mayor or Chamber of Commerce.

    5. Llellayena*

      Depending on company size: gifts are good. Our company did bottles of champagne and wine bottle openers. Something that’s a little unusual/more upscale than a standard christmas party makes it a little more special like a nicer/more unusual venue (museum? boat?), live music, 3-ring circus…depends on your budget (which I HOPE they shared with you). Spouses/partners included unless it’s a daytime/during work hours thing. Ask if there will be a “This is how far we got” power point presentation and who is giving/creating it. And then make sure the venue has the ability to do that….

    6. RisRose*

      My first step would be to try to get a budget for the event. The size of the budget can help you determine how large or small an event they have in mind.

    7. Brrrrr*

      I’ve been with my company long enough to go through a few anniversary parties, the 3 that stand out in my mind, in order of my most to least favorite:
      1) Dinner theatre – rented the whole venue, watched a fun play while eating 3-course meal, and the company handed out engraved watches to all employees (we had a choice of styles to pick from). No speeches from the upper brass, just a fun night out.
      2) Rented a super fancy beautiful theatre venue, had cocktail party (drinks & appetizers) followed by a comedian show. He was actually really funny and totally not edgy (i.e. safe for work). A few speeches from company leaders.
      3) Rented a banquet room in a conference centre, basically a fancy cocktail party – had lots of displays and photos set up for people to look at, interspersed with appetizer and drink stations. To me this one was on the boring side but a lot of our customers seemed to enjoy it.

      1. Westsidestory*

        There should be a second thread about all the great parties of the before times.

        I worked in publishing and experienced everything from a local park that was fully taken over, massive food (think beer garden but with wine too) and even a soccer tournament between the international divisions – and a blowout that took five ballroom floors in the New York Hilton – each floor themed with food and drink and entertainment for each of the five continents the company had offices in. Those were the days!

    8. WantonSeedStitch*

      I was on the board of an organization that celebrated its 30th anniversary while I was there. Some of the highlights of our celebrations included some relics of the time when we were founded (“and this was called a TYPEWRITER!”), some old newsletters from that time, timelines of all the cool stuff we’d done over the years with photos, and of course just plenty of good food and drinks with a slightly fancier/more celebratory air than we usually had at our conference.

    9. Westsidestory*

      If it’s a summer event, consider outdoors (with a backup for bad weather. You will need to ask for a budget and see whether the attendance will be staff only, staff and families/spouses, clients, etc.

    10. J*

      Do you know your target attendees (internal only or clients/family too)? I did an anniversary party with external client guests and what went over really well was interviewing them about their growth as a company, not fishing for stories about us, and making big giant posters about their success. The guests loved them, it ensured attendance, but even for internal only the business team loved seeing the clients they didn’t work with and what they did. We also had a product demo.

      We kept ours super informal, more of a drop in event and literally across the street. We invited alumni from our team so it was a semi-reunion to see old friends/coworkers again. Every half hour the restaurant we were hosting it in brought out a new theme of snacks so people stuck around for that. We wanted to make it more about the people behind the business than the business itself, but featuring our location since we were in a super hip part of town. It wasn’t a total success since it turned out to be ridiculously hot that day but it was better than I’d expected in the end.

  14. PostalMixup*

    There was a discussion on r/labrats Reddit this week about notice periods for low-level academic lab staff, and I was surprised how many people were strongly of the opinion that two weeks was unacceptably short. Those of you who are academic scientists, what’s your take on this? Should a lab tech be expected to give 4+ weeks of notice?

    1. Golden*

      Interesting, I hadn’t seen that! In my PhD lab, it was pretty well understood that lab techs were going to be there for 1-3 years to gain experience before grad school. Their timeline was pretty well established, plus we helped them with personal statements and interview prep, so there were no surprises about their departure date.

      However in other labs, the lab ‘tech’ was more of a lab ‘manager’ (or ‘parent’ tbh) and knew way more than the PI or anyone else about the running of their lab. I could see how 2 weeks would be devastatingly short to lose that, but I’d say if the lab sinks based on one person’s departure, it’s kind of on the PI. There’s ways to mitigate that such as having the tech keep meticulous documentation of their duties, open lines of communication and actively helping them with their next steps and goals, etc.

      1. Golden*

        I didn’t actually answer the question. As a former academic scientist, I’d say no, a job is a job and the business standard is 2 weeks notice. But academia is a strange beast and pissing off the wrong person can be unfairly consequential, so I’d personally recommend that someone give a longer notice.

        1. kicking_k*

          I’ve had very non-academic jobs in universities and the notice periods did seem to assume that anyone at a certain pay grade was most likely to be teaching staff. The official notice period was 3 months (or a term), which made sense for lecturers, but it was understood that administrative staff could negotiate a shorter one if the boss agreed.

      2. darlingpants*

        I wonder if the disconnect is that people are usually leaving to go to grad school, at which point you have a 6-11 month notice period (start working on applications in September, apply in November, get accepted in February, decide which school in april and actually leave in July or august). Vs if they’re going to another job that job will want them to start with a “normal” 2-3 week notice period.

    2. Churpairs*

      I’m curious about the responses to this because while I’ve been in academia for 10 years, I just started a research admin job where the lab staff report to me on paper. We are in the process of hiring an entry level scientist and it’s all new to me (my BS and MS are in science adjacent fields so I never worked in a lab).

      On that note, what can I do to make life better for the lab staff? They are still getting their direction from the PI, who is also my boss, and I’m just here to support and champion the big picture project (think like a program manager for a large grant – it’s not quite that role but similar). We’ve had one lab meeting and I just told them where my office is and that I always have snacks.

      1. Alice*

        Make life better for lab staff? Some suggestions:
        Write down (or get someone to write down) research data management stuff — the naming conventions, how your ELN is organized, where data is stored, and for how long, how data is cleaned….
        Make sure people are aware of the pathway to report potential research integrity issues or bullying.
        Discuss authorship and author order early.
        :)

        1. Churpairs*

          These are all great things! As mentioned below I’ll be hands off in the lab but much of this is culture stuff that can be influenced from all areas of the project. I also want to make sure they know I who can help navigate all of the systems (procurement, HR, EO, information dissemination/publishing) if that is useful to them. If not, I can step back and let them do their thing.

      2. Anonymous Koala*

        I’m assuming you’re working in some sort of lab manager / staff supervisory role. If that’s the case:
        *Arrange formal procedures for training and formalise all your lab protocols (it’s amazing how many different ways people will do *the exact same thing* in the same lab, and tiny changes can lead to big reproducibility problems when they’re caught late).
        *establish SEMs for all your lab’s general research projects and key equipment, set out specific competencies for those positions, and make it known throughout the lab that “Fergus is formally in charge of the LCMS, if you want to learn/use/take it apart go to him”. This will help you maintain accountability too!
        *get your lab on an equipment maintenance and calibration schedule. It’s amazing how many academic labs are working with equipment that hasn’t been serviced since 1980

        1. Churpairs*

          I’m not, it’s actually further removed than that – we have an awesome lab manager in charge of these things (so I think after I’ve been here awhile I can ask her how I can support her doing these things).

          Your calibration comment made me laugh because I was a calibration tech for a federal lab in college and the equipment we had coming in was Big Yike.

    3. Too Much Soup*

      I work in a different part of academia, and the standard for staff in my area is 2 weeks for hourly employees, a month for salaried employees, and ideally longer for high-level positions. I’ve worked at a handful of institutions (but all in my region of the U.S.) that all shared this as a policy, so it “feels” standard to me whether it is or not. With some entry-level lab positions, I can see where someone leaving on only 2 weeks notice causes a scramble to ensure proper coverage, but it seems like it’s more “the higher you’re paid, the more time we need to replace you.”

    4. EngineerGradStudent*

      Honestly I could see how this would be tough. I am a senior PhD student, and our lab techs often have years worth of knowledge for processes, equipment, safety resources, university contacts, etc. And I am sure I am only scratching the surface with that list. Even “low level” techs often have deep institutional knowledge, turning that all over takes time. A lot of times our techs “own” certain resources or equipment, so we would need to set up a new chain of custody and get other folks trained. I know don’t think a longer notice should be required, but if it is not an acrimonious departure a longer notice can really prevent problems down the line for folks left at the institution.

    5. Anonymous Koala*

      When I was a postdoc 4-6 weeks was expected for advanced lab staff (postdocs, lab managers, anyone running a research program within the lab), grad students were expected to give 2-4 weeks (but almost always gave longer than that because of the academic schedule) and 2 weeks was totally normal for lab techs, admin staff, and undergrads. In general more responsibility = more notice period, just like in other fields.

    6. tessa*

      It really depends. I work in academia, and gave 2 weeks’ notice because my apartment lease ended for that year two weeks before I was extended a job offer elsewhere. I let my employer know about the situation, including that I would have had to pay an extra few hundred dollars to stay an extra month to accommodate a 3- or 4-week notice.

      Sometimes, you just have to do what you have to do, regardless of norms.

  15. Sassenach*

    I would like to hear personal experiences with retentions bonuses. Have you requested one? How did it go and how was it set up. Has your employer ever offered one proactively? Draw backs? Typical amounts?

    1. Snow Globe*

      Our company occasionally will provide what is called “long term incentive” bonuses. The amount of the bonus is generally paid out over three years, 1/3 each year, starting 12 months after you are told about the award. If you leave the company you don’t get the remaining bonus. Amounts? $10k on up, depending on your role in the company. Typically these are awarded when the company doesn’t have room for salary increases but they want to reward certain people.

    2. University Schlep*

      The only experience I have was proactively when they were actively looking to sell the company and they were selling the expertise along with it so they offered a retention bonus if you stayed through the transition. The transition was expected to be anywhere from 1-2 years so it was not small.

      It was I believe a combination of fixed and years of service (e.g. something like 8 weeks salary + 1 week per year). It was designed to get just about the amount of attrition they desired while maintaining the core intellectual property they were using as a selling point. (some had as much as 18 years so it was significant)

      I’ve never known anyone to request a retention bonus, there would have to be some really good reason.

    3. hamsterpants*

      My company gave retention bonuses when there were set to be massive changes that would involve months of uncertainty and out-of-state relocation but, in theory, an eventual return to normal business at the new location. They added up to around 25% of a year’s salary, paid out as restricted stock vesting over three years. In hindsight, it wasn’t enough to make the upheaval to my life worth it. I left before it finished vesting.

        1. Roland*

          Not that person, but RSUs are very common in my field. The benefit is having RSUs you can sell for money. They say “the target is X dollars”, a date is chosen, they calculate X dollars is Y RSUs at that day’s price, those are awarded to you and generally vest on a quarterly schedule.

    4. Queen Ruby*

      I was given a retention bonus when my employer bought a competitor and moved HQ, where I was working, to another state. For the last year I worked there, for each month, I would receive 2 weeks pay towards the bonus, plus my usual salary. It was offered proactively by my employer because they understood how important it was to properly transition everything to our replacements.
      No drawbacks from my perspective. It was like getting a 50% raise for a year.

    5. Adequate Archaeologist*

      I received a retention/relocation bonus of $1,450 at my last job. It was paid with my second paycheck, but I could have asked them to postpone the payout if I wanted. Two of us were hired at the same time and my counterpart negotiated for it, so they offered it to me as well (I didn’t find this out until after my first week or so. I thought they just offered it because they were requiring me to move closer to the office.). Theoretically it was supposed to be paid back if I left before 1 year was up, but when I left before a year no one said a word about it. Same with my co-hire who actually negotiated it. I’m not sure if they forgot or they’re banking on building a tiny bit of good will that might lure us back. The wording was super vauge, but it also sounded like they wouldn’t force me to pay it back if they fired me, which I thought was strange.

    6. HR Exec Popping In*

      I’ve never heard of an employee requesting a retention bonus. These are tools companies use with employees that they have deemed are critical to retain for a specific business purpose. For example, being in a job that is working on a critical business priority, they have unique skills that would be hard or impossible to replace which would put the priority in jeopardy.

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        That’s typically my understanding of them. I know I was given a pretty sizable SPOT bonus this year that was intended to be part of my “retention bonus” (they also threw a ton of RSUs at me) and that’s because I’m the only person on my team who does what I do and can manage my programs.

    7. HR Exec Popping In*

      Unless you mean a sign-on bonus (which has a retention hook). For that, during the offer stage, you should first ask for a higher salary. If they can’t meet your request, ask if they could bridge you with a sign-on bonus. This is very normal and generally companies are eager to do this as a one time payout is much easier than committed higher compensation.

    8. RussianInTexas*

      Partner’s company has the “long term incentive” for very select people.
      He just received one – 1800 of the company’s RSU, vested over the next 3 years. Current value is at $60k.

      1. RussianInTexas*

        I call it “diamond encrusted handcuffs”, aka “please please please don’t go”.

    9. MurpMaureep*

      Prior to leaving my last position (in the same larger organization) I was offered a “retention agreement” because I was considered a flight risk and my boss’s boss pushed for it.

      It was structured as $10k over the course of a year in three installments – $1,500 up front, $3,000 after 6 months, and $5,500 after a year.

      Because I was, in fact, in the late stages of interviewing for another position, I didn’t feel I could in good conscious take the first payment so I simply didn’t sign. I also was wary because even though HR said it didn’t matter, the agreement contained language stating that I would be in violation of the agreement if I did leave, with somewhat nebulous consequences.

      I don’t regret a thing. My new job gave me a larger raise (which of course is now part of my base salary, on which all future raises are calculated) and I don’t have to feel like I’ve been bribed to stay or am taking money under false or unclear premises.

    10. quality teas*

      I would never ask for a retention bonus, I would just ask for a higher salary. A retention bonus is a carrot/stick from the company to stop you from leaving, and it feels weird to ask for that proactively.

      I received two at my previous job – it was a bonus you got immediately but would be clawed back if you left within a year, and I got this 2 years in a row. The downside is if you leave within the year, you have to have the cash to pay it back! Basically, be prudent and consider it not “your” money until the time limit is up or you are stuck. I did manage to leverage my retention “bonus” into a sign on bonus when I changed jobs which covered most of the cash I needed to pay back the “bonus”.

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        I’m glad the clawback thing isn’t standard across the board. I once worked for a company that gave me one each year, and the second time I received the bonus, I left a few months later to move to another company, lol. It was a nice sized bonus, too – I did not have the coins to pay that back.

        1. quality teas*

          Luckily I got other bonuses from this company without the retention clause that were mine to keep!

    11. Anonanon*

      I was offered one ahead of our bidding on renewal of the contract I was on. Got 40 percent up front and the rest if we win. I have to stay 12 months after award or have to pay it back. If we don’t win then I keep what I already got but don’t get the rest. It’s used to prevent people from jumping to competitors. It comes out to about 1-2 months salary. It was taxed like a bonus.

    12. BadCultureFit*

      I was offered a healthy one when my boss retired and I was the most senior person in the department. It took a while to hire my boss’s replacement so they offered me one. I actually negotiated it (I asked for double what they offer, they came back with an extra 80%). It worked out well and I ended up staying a full year after my must-stay-until date.

    13. New Mom*

      We offered them this year in two installments and a lump of people quit right after the second one came through, which was pretty stressful for those of us who stayed.

    14. Sandy*

      My husband has received one and is promised (?) two more for the next two years. The business hasn’t been doing well and a lot of people are leaving and he’s probably one of the best in his area at this point. We were a little skeptical of whether the first one would come through – with all of them he was asked to keep them quiet and nothing was said about them after the paper was signed – but it did. No real downsides!

  16. Job seeker*

    I come seeking the wisdom of the commentariat for what is probably an incredibly stupid question, but I’ll risk it.

    What is the etiquette surrounding contacting a recruiter (is it even allowed)?

    I’ve been working for a small company for the past 5 years (entirely remote). I’ve never received a review or a raise in spite of having taken on greater responsibility over the years, and even though I’ve been told my work is excellent. My coworkers who have been here longer than me have told me it’s the same for them. I have evidence that approaching the leadership regarding this would result in negative consequences. There are intangibles that have kept me here in spite of a low-end salary and no raises, but it’s clear that things are not going to change, and I need to find other employment.

    I’ve never used a recruiter, and know nothing about how the process works. How do I get on their radar? Is it acceptable for me to contact them and send them my resume? Are they supposed to find you instead (the comments I’ve seen here at AAM about recruiters involves being contacted by them, not the other way around)? I contacted one and now I’m wondering if I committed a faux pas or breach of ettiquette in doing so. If it makes a difference, I’m in the legal field (IANAL).

    TIA

    1. ThatGirl*

      You absolutely can contact recruiters, especially ones who work for third-party firms. While it’s generally in their job description to find you (candidates in general), no good recruiter would turn down a potential new contact!

      In case you’re wondering how recruiters find you – generally through LinkedIn or job-search sites such as Indeed, ZipRecruiter, etc. I get a lot of LinkedIn spam from recruiters, and occasionally useful job leads.

    2. Less Bread More Taxes*

      YMMV but I contacted about five recruiting companies during my last search, and none of them responded. My resume wasn’t that bad because I got four offers in the end, but it really stung at the time.

      1. Cookies For Breakfast*

        I had similar experiences. Never heard back from recruiters when I reached out to them first (even when they had contacted me for other roles before).

        It seems to me that they prefer to talk to candidates they themselves have found (even when their approach is to email tons of people for roles that are not a match and response rates are low), than keep a record of people who reached out and review them for their open positions. If I had to guess why, I’d wonder whether they’re heavily targeted on the volume of outgoing contact attempts. Or whether they think that reviewing incoming resumes and keeping in touch with people who showed interest is too much effort compared to sending hundreds of boilerplate messages and seeing what comes back.

        1. Chaordic One*

          I never really though about their motivations, but you’re probably right. Their work is probably primarily measured by their volume of outgoing contact attempts. I would also suspect that if you are contacting them they might assume that you are unemployed and desperate, and there is this unfortunate negative and blatantly false stereotype that if someone is unemployed there must something wrong with them. I’ve heard that some recruiter clients will refuse to interview someone who is unemployed.

    3. Recruiter*

      If it’s about a specific role, I’d say definitely reach out to recruiters. However, some recruiting/search firms work on behalf of the client instead of on behalf of the candidate. Reaching out about a specific role would be a better introduction than asking a recruiter to find you a role, if that makes sense.

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Yup, this. In almost all instances, recruiting/search firms find people for jobs, not jobs for people.

    4. NotRealAnonForThis*

      When OldJob hit the level of “nope.”, I called a recruiter who’d been in my LinkedIn inbox and said “nope, get me out of here.”

    5. MissGirl*

      Make sure you’re on LinkedIn and that your profile is updated with the keywords you’re looking for in a new job. Set your preferences to open to recruiting. Recruiters can see this but the general public can’t. I get significantly more attention when I have that set.

    6. T. Boone Pickens*

      You’ll get the most bang for your mythical buck if you focus on reaching out to recruiters within your specific niche and even moreso if it’s a niche within a niche (I know some legal recruiting firms only focus on certain subsets like private equity, BigLaw, etc). The more niched the recruiter, the better understanding of the space they’ll have.

    7. thelettermegan*

      I think the biggest thing to know is that YOU do NOT pay the recruiter! Your skills are THEIR product to SELL, so they get a commission from the company that hires you.

      What I’ve found works best for me is to keep my Linkedin profile up to date and as focused as a resume for anything I might ever want to do. Internal and external recruiters usually find me via Linkedin to match positions they have.

      When starting a job search, though, you don’t have to go through a 3rd party recruiter. Lots of companies still appreciate a good old fashioned application submission via linkedin Jobs/Indeed/zip recuiter. You are probably just as qualified as anybody else fills out the form, so don’t feel like you need the recruiter to get some attention from those dream companies.

      1. Job seeker*

        Thank you. I’m on linkedin, but I’ll have to make sure my profile is up to date, and my settings are correct (thank you, MissGirl!!).

    9. Job seeker*

      Thank you, everyone, for your comments and advice!

      I’ve always searched for jobs and applied for them, and never used a recruiter, but my circumstances have changed and I’m not in a city anymore, so my local options are very limited, and I’m looking for remote only work. I thought maybe touching base with a recruiter might help. I’m glad it’s not a faux pas to reach out to them! Thanks again!

  17. KoiFeeder*

    Shock of shocks, I actually got my TA contract renewed for this semester. I made a student cry (it was by accident and there is context, but I’m still really mad at myself that it happened at all because that’s inexcusable), so I genuinely was not expecting my contract to be renewed ever again. This is a little awkward because I took the data entry job figuring that I could maneuver part time grad school around it, but because of last semester I wasn’t expecting TA work on top of that. Now I have to touch base with the teacher and figure out what it involves- grading is easy and I could do that around the job, but if I’m having to tutor students again like last semester that’s not going to be logistically feasible (and, given last semester, a really bad idea). Fun times.

    1. Amerikanka*

      Wow, it sounds like you have been through a lot! Congratulations on getting your TA contract extended1

      I do not know your full situation, but would consider giving your two week’s notice to the job that pays less and has the least professional benefits for you a (am guessing this is likely the data entry job). Your needs come first. I see employment like business contracts, so will leave my current employer if I get a better offer elsewhere that benefits me.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        Ah, the TA thing is… I think it’s more of a perk of this particular grad school rather than an official Job Job. It’s a way to ensure that we’re getting work experience while in college, maybe? I know I don’t get Actually Paid, instead I get a tuition reimbursement- but that reimbursement has been the same whether I was handling one class or three of them. So that would be the one to go between the two. And, frankly, unless the TA contract was notably better than the data entry job, it’d probably be the one to go anyways. I’m not a good teacher, and that’s not fair to the students.

        1. Reba*

          It’s a perk/beneficial job experience, but also a way that the university functions on grad student labor… :) But actually tutoring students should not be in the job duties!
          I def wouldn’t pass on the tuition waiver (if it is full). You can also consider whether that teaching experience benefits your cv more than the other role or not.
          Sounds like it might be worth having a chat with the prof about the particular course, and also with the director of graduate studies or your adviser about expectations for TA duties and how TA-ships fit in to the overall grad school timeline.
          good luck with your decision!

          1. KoiFeeder*

            It’s not a full waiver, but it is pretty significant- about 1/8th of my tuition. Both roles are equally “beneficial” to my CV, although the classes I TA are at least relevant to what I want to do for a living. On the other hand, I’d need better reimbursement if they want me to tutor again, both for my sake and the students’.

            The tutoring thing is definitely why I want to touch base with the instructor- last semester it actually made it more difficult for me to do my actual coursework because I was having to tutor students on top of full-time graduate school. I’m part-time this year, but with a full-time job, so it just would be logistically impossible.

  18. Following a dream*

    I’m in my late 40s (gulp how did that happen). In college 25+years ago I took some marketing electives and ended up writing a fictional pipe dream business plan. At the time the internet was becoming common in everyday use. I always wanted to open a small mom n pop shop related to a hobby I enjoy. On occasion I’ve updated the plan over the years. Life happened and I never did anything about this dream. I recently found said business plan tucked away in a box. I don’t want to regret never giving it a shot.

    As a hobby I have enough advanced equipment to get started on a smaller scale. I always heard most businesses fail within the first 5 years… my business plan is for 8 starting as a 1 person show and slowly expanding with new equipment, office space and employees over the years.

    I feel like there is always going to be some reason not to start a business and am upset it’s taken me 25 years to say what do you have to lose? Financially if I take things slow over my 8 year plan I should be able to finance this adventure with minimal loans. I also don’t think this is a fad as Ive been thinking about this for years…. I’ve spoken to others in the industry for insight. I even had a potential “competitor” that I actually look up to, compliment me and even want to work with me on a few projects.

    I just keep second guessing myself. While friends and family know I enjoy this hobby, very few people know of my dream to do this professionally. I can’t shake this feeling that people will think I woke up one morning and decided to play “hobby-fun” all day. While I have a realistic budget I can’t wrap my head around how much I would need to spend in start up costs. I confess I’m overwhelmed about the big picture and all there is to do to get started. I’m concerned people will think this is a silly idea since the industry is looked at as a hobby.

    Any words of encouragement? Has anyone been in similar situations? I’d love to hear your stories!

    1. ABK*

      I doubt anyone will think you woke up one morning and decided to play all day. More likely, they’ll be impressed that you are taking the risk of turning your hobby into a business and will admire you for it!
      I haven’t done anything like that, but I say you should go for it!! Good luck!

    2. Chase your passion!*

      That’s wonderful!! You’ve clearly thought this through and know what you want, and are ready to take the leap! I hope you’re not too hard on yourself for waiting that time to start – everyone’s timelines look different and it’s never too late.

      I have a question about the fear that people will think you just decided to play “hobby-fun”, or that it’s silly. Certainly some people will think that. Not everyone, a lot of people will be proud of you and maybe even feel inspired! But if you do run across people who do think you took this step lightly or that it’s silly, how do you think you would feel in that moment? Would you be discouraged and decide it really was silly? Would you invite them to take a look at your business plan you started 25 years ago? Will you let naysayers sway you from this thing you really want to do in your life?

    3. MissGirl*

      You seem very concerned about what “people” will think. Why? Who are these people? Are they knowledgeable about your field? Are they experts in small businesses? Are they people whose insights you value? Or, are they just general people?

      I had a friend who started an independent bookstore during the great recession. Expert people told her it was a very bad idea, including booksellers, bookstore owners, publishers; but she pushed through. She was even shocked the bank refused to loan her more money. She didn’t last three months and blamed everyone else for her failure. She had to move back in with her parents and was in debt for years.

      She should’ve listened to the people.

      I have another friend starting a business this month. She has “people” telling her it’s a bad idea like her parents and such. They’re worried about her and, like many parents, hate the thought of their child struggling and want to minimize risk. She is walking away from a good-paying job for something that might take a few years to pay off. But I think she’s got a good chance of making it; she’s got a solid business plan, a strong network, and a plan B should things go wrong.

      So ask yourself who these people are whose opinions matter so much to you and if those opinions really matter.

    4. Rain's Small Hands*

      About ten years ago I had health problems and had to suddenly stop working. And then I fell into owning half a small business – I do the back office stuff my partner takes care of sales. It isn’t a “hobby” business – i.e. it isn’t photography or owning a game store.

      Know how you are going to live – in my case, my husband has the real job that can pay the bills and cover insurance (my job actually pays a living wage in very few hours a week – but we don’t use it for living). In small businesses, generally loans are personal, so if your business fails, you’ll be on the hook for the loans you take out – so make sure you aren’t taking on too much risk. And then, don’t worry about what people think – heck, many of my friends are convinced I don’t work at all, others are convinced I must be a slave to this business….it doesn’t change anything.

    5. Shhhh*

      If you have a small business development center nearby, it might be worth it to look at what they offer in terms of advising and educational programming. It sounds like you probably already know quite a bit about how to get this started, but it might be helpful for building confidence, figuring out what concrete steps you can take to get started, etc.

      1. Hermione Danger*

        This. If you live in an urban area, there are organizations available to help you get started. I live in Chicago, and at city hall, there is an entire department devoted to small business development, including a whole series of free classes on how to effectively launch a business and lawyers who come in once a week to offer free legal advice. We also have a really active Women’s Business Development Center that’s city-sponsored. You might also check with the business departments of any colleges or universities in your area. They often offer business mentorships and incubators.

    6. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      Are you really going to let a feeling about what others might think hold you back from this opportunity? That would be incredibly sad. It’s your life. Those hypothetical people and their hypothetical opinions don’t pay your bills or shoulder any of your responsibilities. Go for it.

    8. MJ*

      I’ve seen it recommended to have an exit plan along with the business plan. i.e. at what point does it make sense to throw in the towel?

      Thinking it through logically BEFORE you start the business means you can make plans without being caught in the emotional ‘sunk cost’ trap of ‘I’ve put in xxx (money/time) and if I just keep going a bit longer it will all work out.’ You can also plan in advance what steps would need to be taken to exit the business, so you don’t need to decide at an emotional time.

      And by planning for worst case scenarios, you are prepared for whatever comes your way.

      Good luck.

    9. Irish Teacher*

      I know this is easier said than done, but I really don’t think what other people think should be a consideration. The questions should be what YOU want and whether or not you think you can make it work and are willing to take the risk. I doubt people WILL think it a silly idea, but if they do, so what? If it succeeds, you’ll prove them wrong.

      And honestly, whatever you do, there will be people that will judge you for it. I’m a teacher, in a “permanent pensionable supposedly ‘respectable’ job” and yet during the pandemic, we had people complaining that teachers were being “precious” because schools closed when supermarkets and healthcare facilities didn’t. Anybody who starts their own business will have some people frowning and saying they should just go and get a job working for an established company, it’s safer. Anybody who chooses an apprenticeship or any other path other than college will have some people who think college is the only way. People who go to college will have those who think they are wasting money and should go straight into the workplace.

      That’s not to say you should never take advice. Missgirl gave a good comparison of valid advice and advice that is less valid but if your only worry is that people might think you silly and not that you feel they have valid concerns about the viability of your business, then I think some people thinking you silly much less of an issue than regretting you never followed your dream.

    10. I don't mean to be rude, I'm just good at it*

      Is it something you can do on weekends. Perhaps start slowly at a flea market/swap meet environment and slowly build up.

      It is something I did while teaching and now, I am a forced retired teacher with a very successful business.

  19. Tactical Desk Job*

    Hi all, I may be overthinking this but I’m currently updating my resume and am looking for some advice.
    I currently work full time in a government adjacent position. Last year I took an employer sponsored course that allows me to act in a certain secondary position during critical incidents. This secondary position is not required or related to my primary job. I volunteered for the training/position but since I get paid when I respond and act in this secondary position, I don’t believe it should go under volunteer experience. The hours for the secondary position are infrequent and unpredictable.
    What would be the best way to show this secondary position on my resume? Another entry in the work experience section? Just mention it in the cover letter? There are some skills from the position I especially want to highlight for a job I’m thinking of applying for.

    1. Amerikanka*

      I would probably list it under my current job on my resume, but know that others may have valid different opinions. I would also consider include “part time” in parenthesis next to the secondary position so they know you are not working two full-time jobs.

      You could maybe list the course you completed under “certifications” on your resume as well since it is relevant to the job you would like to have.

    2. Fabulous*

      My first thought was under Certifications as Amerikanka suggested, but I think it should go under your current company with (part time) or (ad hoc) clarified. As the first bullet, I’d list the certification you achieved and then your skills/accomplishments for the role.

      Now that I’m thinking on it more too, though, this sounds like something from my job history – I took a class and was certified to present new hire orientation at my current company where I only did it a few times before changing roles. I just ended up listing it as a bullet on my resume under the job I was in during that time though, instead of something more substantially calling it out.

      Since you want to highlight it more for your application, I’d definitely list it separately though :)

  20. Anon pour ce poste*

    Any advice on how to handle it when your boss wants you to write an “angry” email to a vendor… But you’re not angry and you know that your boss is somewhat at fault?

    We’re in the midst of license renewal discussions with our vendor. A couple of months ago, we got a new account executive and there has been some confusion over licenses. (E.g. the license numbers she gave us were wrong, she didn’t have background on some of the “deals” my boss struck, and then we discovered that a request for an extra 600 licenses went astray and were never invoiced/issued to us.)

    My boss is getting irritated, and explicitly told me, “Tell them we’re mad with the lack of communication and unclarity,” etc. But… I’m not mad. The account executive is new. The “deals” my boss struck aren’t in writing anywhere. I don’t have access to the original contracts to validate any of this. The 600 missing licenses are an unfortunate mistake, but we didn’t notice that we weren’t invoiced either, so fault lies on both sides.

    For context, when dealing with this company, my boss sometimes acts like she’s a bigwig and sometimes gets cranky if we aren’t treated like royalty. FIFTEEN years ago, she worked for the company. We are one of the company’s biggest customers in a new field they’re expanding into… But we’re also small fry in terms of their other customers. Maybe I’m wrong and we SHOULD be treated like royalty… But I doubt it.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      My boss is like this. I usually pin it to her instead of “us” if possible. “Boss is feeling frustrated by the lack of clarity and I’d really like to help us all get on the same page.” If I can have that conversation in person (or zoom or phone) vs by email I usually do. A) Boss can’t judge if I’m being ‘angry’ enough if she’s not there while she could ask to see the email and B) it’s a LOT easier to convey through tone that you’re doing what you’re told and don’t agree.

      Solution orientation is also really helpful here. “These are the issues we’re seeing. I understand xyz happened, but we need to get this rectified as soon as possible. Can we please [proposed next steps].”

      Sorry you’re in this position! It’s awkward, but everyone has bosses, usually the people on the other side understand when you’re being put in the middle.

    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      Is your boss the kind of person who will get upset if you get the results she wants without doing it the way she said? I think if you set some guidelines for communication and say things like “we need to get X, Y, and Z in writing, and set up processes to touch base at X times,” that might help. Then you can tell the boss, “vendor says they’re sorry and from now on, we’re going to have X, Y, and Z in writing, and they will touch base with us at X times.”

      As for the licenses, I think the fact that you didn’t realize you didn’t get them and weren’t invoiced is your company’s problem, yes, BUT it’s a much bigger problem that the vendor failed to provide them and invoice you in the first place. I would approach that with “in light of the fact that we’ve now missed out on being able to use those licenses for a couple of months, I think it would make sense to prorate the cost to [percentage of the original], don’t you?” That way you aren’t paying for the time you weren’t able to use them.

    3. Binky*

      I think your boss isn’t out of line to be frustrated that the hand-off between the old account exec and the new one has been handled poorly. I don’t know that you need to express anger in the email, but it does sound like a number of balls were dropped by your vendor. In your position I’d want to get the new and old exec together (if possible) with your boss to get everyone on the same page.

    4. Katie*

      I would just communicate with the vendor the issues and the need to rectify. You don’t have to be angry to talk about issues.

  21. Anon Techie*

    Hopefully my last post on this – I think I’m close to having my firing reclassified as a resignation. My question is what to say to my former coworkers?

    It was a high profile termination due to how well liked I was and how I’d formed connections both official and unofficial with most teams/departments (HR followed secret processes usually reserved for a VP despite me being mid-level). We do happy hours regularly and people are very kind and checking on me. Once this all gets wrapped up I’m going to start job searching and obviously I only want future employers to hear about the new status of it being a resignation. My understanding is that any paperwork that gets signed with old job will include a clause where I can’t acknowledge such an agreement exists.

    What’s a good script? Can I just say “it’s been reclassified as a resignation” and just say I can’t go into details? These are people who I am decently friendly with and will very likely be continuing friendships as well as networking with/through them for jobs, so I don’t want to be cold or stand off-ish. My undignified treatment has already been a contributing factor to a couple resignations.

      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        This. You don’t have to say that you received a legal contract or what it contained. I would frankly just say that you resigned because of a disagreement over whatever and if they ask a follow up question hinting that they heard you got fired just reply that it is technically a resignation or that both parties agreed it was time for a change and that you resigned. Generally people don’t push on this stuff too much.

        1. Anon Techie*

          It’s been over a month since the termination – maybe this process doesn’t normally take that long? I’ve already seen a lot of my former coworkers, so its not like they heard a rumor about being fired – they heard it either from me (before I got a lawyer) or someone close to me (a few people were…rather loudly opinionated the week it happened. One person tried to reverse the decision. Some people panicked about their own job security. Apparently the aftermath was a little dramatic).

    2. Colette*

      Are you concerned about what you tell people you know, or people you will be interviewing with who you don’t know?

      Do you understand why they fired you? It would be good to get that clear in your own mind.

      With people you don’t know, I definitely wouldn’t say it has been reclassified as a resignation – that makes me wonder what happened. You could say you resigned, but that’s likely to raise more questions about why you resigned without a job lined up, so give some thought to how you’d answer them.

      1. Rain's Small Hands*

        Resigning without another job lined up is easy “I was fortunate that I was in a position to be able to take a small sabbatical before I needed to find another role.” People won’t pry over whether that was savings, a partner willing to support you, a sudden inheritance, you won the lottery.

        1. Colette*

          I don’t like the idea of lying, especially if there has not been a large gap since the last job.

      2. Anon Techie*

        I’m asking what to say to my former coworkers – these are people I know and am work friends with (some of them are partway between work friend and real friend). The company is small (150-200) and I worked with a large percentage of them. The settlement process has taken a few weeks and I didn’t think it was actually going to go through, so we’ve talked and they definitely know it was originally a termination. Several coworkers want to connect me to jobs within their network and I don’t want former coworker Bob to tell future employer Sally that I was let go from our company. Please trust that I know my friends enough to know this a real risk. I’m not worried about what to say in interviews.

        As for understanding the why – it was a wrongful termination for reporting harassment and safety issues, the reclassification is part of a settlement. My coworkers don’t know the real details, but the popular theories are all that it was for shady reasons, as I was publicly praised as being essential and a high performer then suddenly gone. Plus the company is doing some other shady stuff right now.

        1. Hillary*

          Late replying to this, but I hope this helps.

          Your lawyer can help you with a neutral script here. I usually say something along the lines of “it was complicated, but it gave me the push I needed” when I talk about the time I was fired. I’m not bound by any legal agreements so sometimes I go on to talk about the people and what led up to it. My big piece of advice is to practice telling people. I was very upset about it for the first couple months. It took a while before I could be dispassionate about it.

          I suspect your lawyer will say to tell Bob that the company will verify it as a resignation. You can privately say you can’t say more, but it was complicated and you’re glad to be moving on to new things, and you appreciate his support. Tech folks are used to settlements/NDAs and they should read between the lines to keep their mouths shut.

  22. Prospect Gone Bad*

    I have an employee who is often mildly unhappy. I think they are going through one of their periods again. TBH I am getting burnt out from dealing with it and it’s much harder to gauge what is going on when we are WFH.

    Some of their complaints have been valid but as they’ve earned more, the expectation was that they accept some of the issues or get more active in fixing them, but I don’t know if they are fully doing this. It still feels like they have too many “deal breakers” and TBH I am sort of tired of it. Ten things will go well, the complain about the eleventh. Then we fix the eleventh and they low key complain about a fourteenth thing that broke, making me feel like the fix we just did on the other thing didn’t happen or wasn’t enough.

    I’m wondering if they are job hunting. At this point, I wouldn’t be depressed if they left (though it would temporarily screw me). But I’m also afraid of a situation where they keep looking and don’t get offers. And I’m also concerned that they’re going to have the same issues at their future job.

    Anyone else deal with this? We have a few employees who are positive and nice but useless and would have been fired at other companies, so I’ve put up with lackluster attitudes elsewhere in exchange for good work for years but I am getting tired of it. I hate the feeling that someone is doing me a favor by doing work for a good salary. I feel like the media and online commentators have been vehemently pro-employee lately but it’s making my work life worse and making me question the point of having people around.

    1. Colette*

      Why is them being mildly unhappy your problem?

      When they complain about things, have you been clear that their choice is to accept the issue or come up with a solution?

      You say you’ve been putting up with “lackluster attitudes” in exchange for good work, but … work is what you’re paying them for, so I wonder about your expectations there. Is their attitude stopping them from doing their job (i.e. stopping them from building relationships with teammates or clients), or are they just not as outwardly enthusiastic as you think they should be.

      1. Prospect Gone Bad*

        let me think about this. Am I reasonable?

        “Why is them being mildly unhappy your problem?” – well, I want a lighter positive more proactive environment and also people to not act like everything in general is hard or unfair. I feel like it brings down some meetings and people are hesitant ask follow up questions/requests because they assume the complaint is 100% fact and not subjective.

        “When they complain about things, have you been clear that their choice is to accept the issue or come up with a solution?” – for the most part but not every time. I mean, I am not going to put everything on their shoulder.

        I think their attitude is making all of us more hesitant to ask for more stuff or to loop them into newer projects. It feels like they’re doing us a huge favor instead of of work at a similar intensity as the rest of us.

        1. FashionablyEvil*

          So, I think you have a slightly different problem than you think you do: the problem is not that the employee is/may be unhappy, but that their actions and behaviors are directly affecting their team—the fact that people are reluctant to ask about new projects concerns me because it points to the employee poisoning the culture.
          Have you considered naming the behaviors and talking about the environment you want to cultivate? Or having a broader conversation about how their work is going, what they view as the expectations of the role, and what kinds of projects they see the team as being able to contribute to? Basically, think much bigger about the culture you want to cultivate and the behaviors that you want to work on with this employee to get there.

          1. Prospect Gone Bad*

            I guess this is all true. So I have had those talks a few times before. Now I’m at the wall where I had the talk, but it didn’t do much. I feel like I’m trying to re-steer the Titanic. I also feel like they feel I sort of abandoned them by stopping to indulge in their complaints. I don’t think they’re fully grasping that their grips when they made $60K that were valid are now things they need to ignore or fix at $100K. And some of the stuff is subjective, like “push back on other person and don’t just delegate it to me everytime” that seems much harder to change because the behavior is ingrained.

            So TLDR I am having trouble getting people to change and accept change, and the first few talks didn’t help.

            Thoughts appreciated

            1. LizB*

              If you’ve named these issues in your talks, have you then followed through with pushing back when the behaviors repeat themselves?

              If you said in your talk, “Now that you’re a X level, I expect you to come up with solutions for Y types of issues without involving me, or to decide that the issues aren’t worth pursuing. You have the authority to do that.”
              Then next time they complained about a Y type of issue, did you say, “I hear that you’re frustrated, but as we’ve discussed, this is the kind of thing I expect you to solve on your own as an X level person”?

              If you said in your talk, “If you get an unreasonable request from Jane, I expect you to push back on her without involving me. You have the authority to do so. If it escalates to A or B situation, then loop me in, but otherwise I know you’re able to handle that.”
              Then next time they forwarded Jane’s unreasonable email to you, did you respond to them, “You have the authority to push back on this, please don’t delegate to me unless it reaches the level of A or B situation”?

              Getting people to change can be exhausting and thankless work, and big picture Talks only do so much, as you’ve found. How you respond in the moment when your expectations aren’t being met will have a much bigger impact.

              1. Prospect Gone Bad*

                This is where I am having trouble managing remotely. In fact, I would love AAM to do a whole tips thing or interview with a manager who’s managed remote for years. Just a thought. But yeah, I’m finding it harder to get stuff done remotely and it feels dramatic to call meetings to discuss stuff like this.

                1. WantonSeedStitch*

                  I think you need to let go of it “feeling dramatic.” Sure, it might feel dramatic, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t necessary. Part of managing remotely is making sure that you’re communicating effectively with your team, and giving feedback effectively. If that means you have to face-to-face them on Zoom to talk about performance issues (and let’s be clear, lowering team morale IS a performance issue), then that’s what you have to do. Do you meet regularly with your report 1:1?

                2. LizB*

                  I’ve never managed remote so I can’t speak to that personally, but – your employee is coming to you with these complaints/issues via some kind of communication channel, right? It’s fine to respond via that same communication channel with corrections after you’ve had that original Talk! If it’s an email or chat, respond to it that way, if they bring it up on a call or video meeting, talk about it in the moment. (And if the complaints are usually in a text-based medium, you could even had a virtual sticky note/word doc with some copy-paste-able text for a few very common complaints.) I guess I’m not seeing what feedback opportunities you’d have if you were managing in-person that you’re missing because you’re managing remote.

                3. FashionablyEvil*

                  Do you have a regular 1:1 meeting with the employee? Those can help a lot towards helping you understand what’s going on with them and short circuit some of the complaining. It can also help build general rapport.

                  It also sounds like this is an opportunity for you to level up in your management skills—do you have options for training or coaching at your organization that might help? A trusted boss, senior colleague, or HR business partner to talk this through with?

                4. Prospect Gone Bad*

                  thank you for comments below. I mentioned work remotely because one issue I see is people not wanting to come into office ever, saying they love WFH, but they definitely seem more miserable. I can guess why it is (maybe they are stewing over small stuff more often while being home?) but it’s a constant struggle to convince people to come in when they don’t 100% have to but it would be helpful, and I myself am getting burnt out with their “I’m so productive WFH, I love WFH” when productivity is down (though not that far) and they seem generally unhappy.

                5. LizB*

                  (We’re out of nesting – this response is to Prospect Gone Bad @ 3:18pm)

                  I’m going to push back a little on your idea that having them come into the office would help. I’m currently hybrid (alternating two weeks in office and two weeks wfh), and I am more productive when I’m at home. I also am wildly burnt out from *gestures vaguely around at the state of the world*, so my productivity is not 100% in either of my work locations. I was doing pretty well for the first two years of the pandemic, but I finally hit the wall on my ability to just keep going, and I know I’m not the only one in this country or world who’s had that experience. So, it could be that your employee is generally more miserable than before, and their productivity is down compared to previous years, but it has very little to do with their work location and they’d be struggling even more if they had to be in the office.

                6. Two Dog Night*

                  Speaking as someone who’s worked remotely for years… it’s not overly dramatic. You can put a 15-minute meeting on their calendar, or just wait till they show available and ask if you can give them a call. It doesn’t have to be a big deal. And if you occasionally do things like this for positive/neutral conversations, it’s even easier.

            2. Colette*

              I think you need to have a serious conversation with them, outlining what you need from them.
              For example:
              – You raise a lot of issues. I’d like you to think through how to solve the issues and let me know how you think we should solve them before you mention them, unless it is a health and safety issue that needs to be addressed urgently.
              – When someone asks you to do something that’s not something you should handle, I need you to push back and let them know that that’s out of your scope.

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      If someone is continuously unhappy it is exhausting as a manager. When I’ve had people like this I have a very frank conversation with them. Basically I ask them if they think they can be happy at the company knowing that XYZ (whatever their complaints are) are not likely to change. If they come back with “but….” then you say, you need to make a decision. Can you be happy here. I’m not expecting an answer right now, but I do need you to think about this and we can follow up on it during our next check-in.

    3. JustMyImagination*

      When they come to you with a complaint and it’s something they are supposed to fox are you pushing them to do the fixing or just doing it yourself? Maybe asking “I hear your concern, what steps have you taken to fox XYZ?” Or “when this has happened before I’ve done ABC. Why don’t you try that and let me know how it goes.”

    4. MurpMaureep*

      I’ve had these kinds of employees and they really are exhausting, so I empathize! I also struggled with how to handle them, in part because I used to think it was my job to make them happy. At some point I had an epiphany/paradigm shift where I realized that really my job was to make sure that our work got done and that reasonable frustrations were addressed. So I started being painfully honest with the unhappy people about what I could change, what I couldn’t change, and what – and this is key – it wasn’t reasonable for them to expect me to change *even if I could*.

      Take the example of “you need to push back on Sally when she tries to delegate something to me”. Could I push back on Sally? Perhaps…but should I? No. I shouldn’t because Unhappy Employee should be doing the push-back themselves or even because Sally is right to ask them to do the task. And in a case like this I’d say that. And I might even say (depending on the overall tone of the conversation) “your manager’s job is not to remove every frustration or difficulty, those will invariably crop up as part of any job. You are welcome to bring them to me, but at some point you have to accept that I can’t clear every road block, nor should I”.

      This worked with some people and some people decided they didn’t like that I stopped trying to fix everything and left and we were all the better for it.

    5. The Real Fran Fine*

      Everyone has given really good advice here, but I wanted to address just this part of your post:

      And I’m also concerned that they’re going to have the same issues at their future job.

      This really isn’t your problem to be concerned about. You should only be concerned with their performance while working for you because that’s the only thing that impacts you directly. Give yourself permission to not care so much about things you have no control over and then maybe you’ll have greater bandwidth to deal with the things you do.

    6. LoPay*

      Tell us more about the few employees who are positive and nice, but useless. Your worker bee could be suffering from their lackluster performance.

      1. Tired*

        As a burnt out grumpy employee who is still somehow delivering the work I’m asked for, I’ve lost the band width to pretend to be happy and perky in front of my manager. Commuting on top of the current workload is going to make me more stressed – COVID is not gone. I don’t enjoy driving, I’m an introvert, most meetings are still online. In my case it’s very unclear what authority I have or who is responsible for many tasks which come to me because of my experience/skill but aren’t really mine – and other coworkers being cheerful and “it’s all back to normal” whilst pushing those tasks my way or doing their own work in ways that create problems down the road which I gave to fix do not help my mood.

        All of which to say – I’m possibly projecting, but have you tried empathising? Make sure they know what tools they have to solve problems, especially if those changed, and put them in writing – if they’re burnt out ir forgetful that will help them, & you can just keep copy pasting when they do a thing eg they email to complain that Joe asked them to do X, copy paste the bit that says tell Jie that’s Bobs job and I’ve told you not to do it, or tell joe it’s low priority or send Joe that how to document I asked you to write for everyone…

  23. Amerikanka*

    Is it worth applying to jobs that have less vacation time than my current job for career advancement purposes? I get great vacation time at the university I work at full-time, but am unable to advance so far (I have applied for a lot of job postings at my university but have to compete with external applicants).

    I LOVE international travel and am loathe to give it up (I tool a month long trip to Europe last Summer which is rare for American jobs to allow). However I am worried I will stagnate if I stay in my current job (and be trapped in my current wage). I have already been at my current job for 7 years and am bored and not challenged.

    I am in grad school part time at the university I work at, so wonder if I should just be patient and stick it out until I get my degree (I am 1.5 years away from graduation). On the other hand, I may be setting myself short if I stay at the same university long term (I have heard there are consequences of working at the same place for years).

    I REALLY hope another job opens up for me at my university soon, but know nothing is guaranteed. To make matters more complicated, my university pays for my grad school tuition too.

    Thank you for any thoughts you have!

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I think so, yes, but that’s personal calculus. It’s really common for jobs to offer extra vacation time if you don’t have a competitive salary or career advancement to keep employees happy. That means it’s a tradeoff if you leave, sure, but if career advancement is important to you that might be a choice you have to consider.

    2. Taura*

      I think it wouldn’t hurt for you to start applying elsewhere, just to see what kind of responses you get. I also think if you start that now, you have 1.5 years to be picky about what you take, since you’re working on your degree and that will change things by itself. Almost 10 years at a place IS a long stay (in my field anyway, idk about yours) but I think it’s perfectly reasonable since you’re also getting your degree there.

    3. Two Chairs, One to Go*

      I just accepted a contract job with no vacation to advance my career. The salary is great, it’s short-term, and it will help me gain experience so I can get back into a job with good benefits again in my new field.

      The biggest perk you have now is that your employer is paying for your education. Factor that in, but it never hurts to look!

    4. KoiFeeder*

      I’d stick it out until you get your tuition paid for. But that’s how the calculus would work out for me. You’re the expert on what’s best for you and your life.

      1. the cat's ass*

        came here to say that, because it’s an excellent perk. 1.5 years is not that long-i’d stick it out and get your tuition paid and then start looking.

        1. Loulou*

          Same, and presumably once OP has that degree they may have better luck with job searching! Just keep in mind they may be obligated to stay for a certain length of time after getting the degree.

          1. KoiFeeder*

            I mean, that’s the calculus thing. A cheap grad school can still be nearly $10k per semester for in-state students, and it’s not going to get better with inflation. I personally would still take being tied to the school for another few years over being out $30k+. OP might not. They’re the expert on their situation.

    5. Pivotttt!*

      As someone who just left academia and debated a 30% pay increase for exactly the same reason – lengthy international travel – I get it. In fact, all of my questions post-offer had to do with PTO, culture in taking time off, etc. However, when I took into consideration how long it would take me in my previous role to get to the new salary, I knew I had to leave. Thankfully, I can already tell that the new place has people take off a couple weeks at a time, so I’m less concerned than I was.

      I’ve been where you are, hoping for a job (and being encouraged by admin!) that never appears.

      Of course, depending on how much your tuition costs, I’d probably do the math and stay for the length of the program if I couldn’t make up the funds with a higher salary.

    6. Decidedly Me*

      There’s no easy answer here – it really depends on your priorities. Personally, I would take more vacation over more immediate career advancement or money. BUT – that’s me. There is no right or wrong here.

    7. DEJ*

      Agree with others there isn’t a right or wrong answer here. My former University employer had amazing benefits, and I knew people willing to take a smaller salary for those benefits. But I got a 25% raise when I left and that obviously has its perks too. Personally, I would probably stick it out until I finished graduate school and then reevaluate from there.

    8. University Schlep*

      I would stay for the tuition. It is unlikely you would find a job that would pay college expenses right away (most have a waiting period) or pay high enough to cover the difference unless you are severely underpaid. And consider whether a new job might make it difficult not just financially but have time constraints to finishing the degree.

      I wouldn’t worry about staying 7 years vs. staying 9 years in terms of consequences to your career, the biggest one is likely that you are underpaid.

      Vacation is always negotiable if you are bringing the skills they are looking for. If it is in a different field then you may need to decide what matters more to you.

      1. Loulou*

        Vacation is not always negotiable! This is one of those AAM truisms that does not apply to every field.

        1. The Real Fran Fine*

          Yup. It’s very company/industry dependent. I was able to negotiate my vacation time at my current employer so I wouldn’t go backwards in terms of time off, but I’ve also worked for employers in other industries in the past who had a take it or leave it PTO policy.

      2. Area Woman*

        Vacation is not negotiable at my company. We lost a candidate who preferred her current PTO situation (with even lower pay, worse benefits, no stock options, and more hours per week) over ours. We have separate vacation/sick leave. I didn’t understand it but I guess this is a thing.

    9. Pam Adams*

      The consequence of staying at my university for years is a collection of service pins and a damn good pension.

    10. AnonyMouse*

      1.5 years is not very long in the scheme of things. If your only concern is lack of advancement and feeling unchallenged, I would personally wait to finish your degree – if you’re ever asked in an interview why you stayed in your current role so long, “they were paying for my graduate degree” is an excellent reason! Once you finish your degree, you may be a more desirable candidate for different roles anyway. So personally I would wait and use these 1.5 years to take advantage of the vacation time you do have. And I agree with other posters that unfortunately you may need to trade off less vacation time for more pay/advancement down the road – vacation is not always negotiable, and depending on your field, taking a full month at a time may be impossible at this stage in your career.

    11. Churpairs*

      I would finish the degree. I worked my first position at my university for 8 years before moving on (and got my masters in that time). My first move was a lateral move that still came with a raise, and my most recent move was a promotion with a much bigger raise.

      Have you reached out to the hiring managers of those internal postings to see why you’ve been passed up? Do you network much at work? It might help to join committees so you can meet people in other departments. Seems to me like when we hire internal candidates, we try to find someone who knows them and can give us a reference outside of the formal reference process.

      FWIW, I’ve looked at other employers and really can’t convince myself to give up the benefits that I get here. As others said, that’s how the calculus works out for me.

    12. cactus lady*

      Reminder that vacation is something you can negotiate at non-university employers! However, I personally would not want to accept a job with less vacation time. If I were in your position I would stick it out to have school paid for and then leave.

    13. New Mom*

      SO relate to this question. I think it comes down to what is most important for you. Half of my family lives in Europe (including my husband’s entire family) and it is essential that we visit for 2-3 weeks at least once every other year, but preferably once a year. I’ve been getting a bit fed up with my current job, but everywhere else just has such paltry time off. We went to Europe for three weeks over Christmas so my husband could actually spend time with his family and that wouldn’t be possible if I were working elsewhere. Our daycare also closes five weeks out of the year so I need a job with lots of time off to accommodate that.

      Going to Europe for a month every summer sounds pretty great, and if advancing your career isn’t the most important thing (and it doesn’t have to be) then I’d lean towards sticking where you know you can get that time off. But again, it’s really up to you and what is most important for your own life and own happiness.

    14. N.J.*

      I work at a university. I don’t adore my job, but I like it and the people a lot and there are benefits to the work-life balance, PTO etc. Especially if they are paying for your tuition, just stick it out until you graduate. In the meantime, apply for other jobs at the university. I’ve been in my position for four years with one raise. I apply to jobs at my university that look up my alley, give more responsibility/are more senior and likely pay more. Is the field you are studying vastly different from your current job? Are you hoping to work private sector after or stay with the university but move up etc?

  24. KofSharp*

    I’m at a contracting company, and we just lost the client I was working with for the past year due to being outbid. (I am still employed at my company and not worried about my job, I’m on a new client team starting today.)
    Is it OK to reach out to my contact there are tell him it was great working with him? What kind of phrasing should I use?

    1. Mid*

      I can’t see why you *shouldn’t* reach out. And I wouldn’t overthink what you say–a simple “I enjoyed working with you over the last [timeframe], and wish you the best on [new contract.]”

  25. Macaroni Penguin*

    The short version: Will leaving my current company two months after returning from a maternity leave ruin my references?
    Longer Version: My industry (social services) has major problems and isn’t going to change. This was my realization during my six month Canadian maternity leave. I’ve been back at work for two months now, and I’ve been looking for a better job outside my company. Well, my last interview went really well and there’s a chance that I could be offered a new position with the government. More pay, better benefits and I’d be Doing Good for Society. If I take a the (possible) new position, will that torch my positive reference at my current company? I’m well liked where I am, and my supervisor is a reasonable and fantastic person. But me leaving now would be seriously inconvenient for the company. There are no financial consequences to possibly leaving my position. It’s just that I’m concerned about damaging my reputation and not being able to use my supervisor as a future reference.

    1. Disco Janet*

      I honestly think it depends on your supervisor. I did something similar and it didn’t damage my reference – but my supervisor was big on the idea of loving to see good people moving onto bigger and better positions and didn’t mind dealing with the inconvenience part, simply saw it as part of his job. It still wasn’t fun to tell him I was leaving because I had guilt, but he was great about it. How does your boss typically respond when people leave or get promoted?

      1. Macaroni Penguin*

        This boss is a good and supportive employer. People are generally cheered on when they move to better things. To be honest, I am feeling some guilt because I don’t like inconveniencing others. And yes, my possible departure would be an inconvenience. It’s part of the employment world, I know but….feelings!

    2. Colette*

      How long were you in the job before maternity leave? If it was long enough for them to know your work, I don’t think it should matter. (And, depending on what form of government you’d be moving to, the reference checking might not give them an opening to complain anyway.)

      1. Macaroni Penguin*

        I’ve been around for almost nine years. So, I’m known for my above average quality of work. I think that things would work out reference wise.

        1. Gracely*

          You definitely paid your dues to the company in that case.* If you’d only been there a year or two, it might not be as easy/forgivable in some people’s eyes, but no one reasonable should be mad you’d go somewhere new after nearly a decade.

          *If it were up to me, “paying your dues” would not be a thing, but it often is to some people, so it is worth factoring in.

          1. Colette*

            It’s not that you need to pay your dues, IMO, it’s that it’s not likely that someone who has worked with you for, say, 4 months could speak to your work – you’re still being trained. My team once had someone join us 4 months before maternity leave, take a year off (which is normal), and extend it for another year. None of those things were a problem – but she hadn’t actually started doing the job independently, so she wouldn’t have had effective references.

    3. Snow Globe*

      It shouldn’t impact any reference if your current boss is a halfway decent manager; people leave jobs all the time, frequently at inconvenient times. Your maternity leave was a company benefit and there is no reason to penalize you for taking the benefit. You have to do what is best for your family.

    4. HR Exec Popping In*

      Not at all and this is actually somewhat common. Being out on leave and going through a significant life change are both predictors of a resignation. Will your manager love that you are leaving? No, but they will get over it. Especially if you had a good relationship and are not difficult on your way out.

    5. ABK*

      I wouldn’t think it would affect your reputation, especially if you present it to your supervisor as an opportunity you weren’t looking for, but is too good to turn down.

    6. Macaroni Penguin*

      Thanks for the assurances my references would probably be fine and that this is a Relatively Normal Inconvenience that Supervisors Deal With!

  26. Disco Janet*

    Curious how this would be handled in different workplaces, because I’m about to find out what happens in mind.

    I have four coworkers who work in the same role as me, and there are certain processes/aspects of the job that we are required to all do the same way for consistency. However, we get to decide as a team what that process should look like. We are planning out our processes and keep running into roadblocks where three of us agree on what the process should be, but that one final person doesn’t. In general, they’re a “we don’t need to compromise/collaborate because my way is clearly better” type person. Granted, some things can’t be compromised on, like the order we complete the process in – it’s option A or B and there are no other choices.

    The rest of us are getting frustrated and wanting to basically say “sorry, but you’re outvoted here – we’re doing it this way.” Or saying we can do some of it her way, but other parts the way the rest of us like. But I have a feeling from how the last year has gone (also her first year with the company) that she’s going to say, “Well no, we can’t make a decision until we all agree.” But she will never agree with anything that isn’t being done exactly the way she wants with no compromises or changes. And we have a new boss who I would love to not bring this drama to when they’re still getting to know everyone.

    Thoughts? Suggestions? The rest of us bounce ideas around, point out strengths and weaknesses, find ways to make them better, toss it if it’s not going to work, find a way to mix our ideas together, etc. She just won’t, and I’m frustrated. (There are other weird things about the dynamic but I’ve already written a bunch. Trying to stick to the parts relevant to this problem, but happy to answer questions.)

    Oh, and I was trying to make this generic so people from different jobs could picture the scenario in their workplace, but because context does matter – we are high school English teachers, and the processes we need to agree on are the order we teach the texts/novels, and what assessments we are using (tests, projects, essays, etc.) to grade students. Our school requires us to teach the same texts in the same order, and use common assessments/grading rubrics.

    2. KofSharp*

      3 beats 1, draft out the way that the 3 agree the process needs to be done and have 1 identify “pain points” in your process that can be streamlined.

    3. Bagpuss*

      You say that you want to say “sorry, but you’re outvoted here – we’re doing it this way.” – I wonder whether actually saying that is the way to go.

      aybe not quite so bluntly but maybe “We hear what you are saying, but it’s reasonable to go with a majority decision so we can move on to the next issue. So we’ll reord that we will be teaching Hamlet, The Metaphysical Poets and ‘Waiting for Godot’, in that order.
      Next lets talk about the plan for the 20th C literature module.

      If she says that you can’t prceed unless you all agree then the response may be ‘it’s clear that we aren’t all going to be able to agree, so we will need to vote to break the deadlock.’

      but if she won’t budge then I think you will need to speak to your boss and expalin that you have discussed the options at legth and unfortuantely while 3 of you have been able to agree, the 4th is not willing either to comprmise, or to accept a majority decidion, or to negotiatate, so youwill need the boss to be invoklved. It may be helpful to ask NewBoss to sit in on your next meeting, and then if you hit a deadlock you can ask for their input, nboth on the specifc issue in question and on how o resolve any further issues where you are not able to reach a consensus. It doesn’t have to be in depth, maybe just ‘we’ve had a few situations where 3 of us have agreedand one one of us has ben unhappy with that and unwilling to accept a majority decison – are you happy for us to resolve that by avote or re there other optisn you’d like us to try if we aren’t able to negotiate an agreed plan?” That way it isn’t suggesting that its always the same person being awkward, but more flagging an issue and asking boss to approve a method of resolution. (and if they say they want you to refer any dead locks to them then do that. )

    4. Snow Globe*

      It may help to have a general procedural discussion, where you state that if, after sufficient discussion where each person can present their point of view, if all aren’t in agreement, then you’ll need to go with a vote and majority rules. You simply can’t discuss round and round endlessly to reach 100% agreement on every topic.

    5. STEM Prof*

      I’ve been a high school teacher and I currently am a professor. Even though I’ve been in education for quite a while, and have had a ton of positive feedback from administrators, peers, and students, I know that there are things I can do to improve. And the best way to improve is to talk to my peers and hear new ideas. In education there is no One Right Way, and anyone who insists there is, in my opinion, needs to change their mindset or find a different career.

      Given what you’ve written here, I think it is reasonable to say, “Sorry, you’re outvoted, this is how we’re doing it.” The main reason I think it’s reasonable is because three of you are actively engaging in a dialogue about how to proceed and your coworker refuses to participate in that. If she insists that her way is always best, then she: 1. is wrong; 2. is doing a disservice to her school, her students, and herself in terms of her own professional development; 3. is acting like an immature jerk; and 4. deserves to be outvoted. You and your two other reasonable colleagues are trying to create the best learning environment for students.

      I know you don’t want to bring “drama” to your new dean/assistant principal/principal, but I don’t think this counts as “drama”. This isn’t petty social stuff, this is a serious work-related issue that is impacting a major part of your job. If the obstinate teacher refuses to accept a “you’re outvoted” decision, then I think you will need to escalate this. You could phrase it something like this: “[Boss], the English department is working on finalizing the curriculum for [semester/year]. We have reached a stalemate, and I was hoping to get your advice on the situation. Myself and [helpful colleagues] have workshopped some ideas and developed a plan. We are open to changes and willing to compromise to create a learning environment that will benefit all students and meet [district/state requirements]. However, [obstinate colleague] has drawn a line in the sand and refuses to collaborate or compromise. She also is unwilling to proceed with a plan if there is not unanimous agreement. What are your thoughts on the best way to resolve this situation?”

      I don’t think that script is necessarily perfect, but hopefully it can give you some ideas about how you would approach the conversation. Focus on the work impact for this specific situation. Don’t try to convince your boss that your colleague is, overall, a difficult person, even though it sounds like she is. A neutral tone of voice and facial expression will also probably help a lot in this conversation, too.

      1. Observer*

        know you don’t want to bring “drama” to your new dean/assistant principal/principal, but I don’t think this counts as “drama”. This isn’t petty social stuff, this is a serious work-related issue that is impacting a major part of your job.

        I think that this is the key issue. OP, this is very useful framing.

    6. Irish Teacher*

      I was going to say could you just do different texts, but it sounds like that’s not an option? Though are you sure it isn’t? For the Junior Cert. and Leaving Cert. here, every kid in the country does the same test, obviously, and they have not done the same texts. Exam questions are asked like “compare two poems on the theme of war” or “imagine you are stranded on a desert island. Which character from the novel you have studied would you most like to be stranded with and which would you least like to be stranded with? Explain why” or “Compare the social structure in two texts you have studied.”

      Would it be possible to do something like that? For each teacher to choose their own texts but give a common exam.

      Though you’d still have to agree the rubrics, etc.

      In general, with a reasonable person, I would say there should be some compromise. It is difficult and annoying to teach a text that you either have no interest in yourself or that you know will not engage your students. When subbing, I had to teach the texts chosen by the teacher I was covering for, obviously, and in some cases, I would not have agreed with their choices.

      However, it doesn’t sound like your colleague IS reasonable. From what you have said, it doesn’t sound like “let’s each choose one text and the assignment for that text and agree we will use those chosen by the others” would work either.

    7. My Useless 2 Cents*

      I think “Sorry, you’re outvoted” is the way to go but pull in the new manager. Especially if there are going to be problems with the state when Oddman-Out starts doing things her own way, because she will and manager is going to need to be in the loop to get her to conform.

      I’ve worked with plenty of people like this and compromise will never work. Giving in to her way on one point will only encourage more stubbornness on doing everything her way so be careful what you concede on and how. Frame it as “As a group, we think X will work fine” not “Well, we are doing AB&C our way so we can do X on that”. If she thinks her behavior got the group to give on X, then more of the same will wear them down on AB&C.

    8. Kez*

      I wonder if it’ll help (especially with a teacher who is newer and might feel justified in their need to “shake things up”) to phrase it something like this:

      “We’re going in circles on how to manage this, and since we need to move on to other things, I’d like us all to agree to the majority consensus of X, Y, Z. We can always regroup and discuss our experiences at the end of the year.” and if the other teacher pushes back or says there needs to be total consensus, you could say, “Well since we need to get this done soon and you want a clearer directive, let’s just pull in Manager to make the call for us.” That way it’s clear the initiation of Manager involvement is a choice this teacher is making, and they have the option to back down and say “nah, let’s just do what you suggested and evaluate as the year goes on” if they’ve just been arguing for the sake of it.

    9. Gnome*

      Maybe give her a couple if you don’t feel strongly about them, and for ones you feel more strongly about, you could try “since most of us feel X is better for Y reasons, let’s try that this year and make a note to see how it goes and revisit it next year” or whatever makes sense time wise.

      But also, you could set a time limit on discussion – have to know the order before school starts – and vote on everything at the end. Then it’s not voting only where she’s being difficult.

    10. Observer*

      And we have a new boss who I would love to not bring this drama to when they’re still getting to know everyone.

      You have 2 choices. Either you tell her she’s outvoted or you go to your boss.

      If you keep it factual and outline what you’ve done to come to a compromise, I think your boss should understand the issue, unless they are not too competent.

      You have my sympathies. Unless she has a specific area of expertise that none of the others have, she sounds mighty unreasonable.

    11. Flower necklace*

      As a high school teacher, it sounds like you’re talking about a CLT (that’s what I would call it, although I’m not sure how common the term is). Our CLTs have a lead, and it would be the responsibility of the team lead to send out an email saying something like, “Okay, as we discussed in the meeting, we’re going to teach standards X, Y, and Z using novel A. I’ve attached some activities and the summative assessment. Let’s plan to test by X date.”

      If you don’t have a lead, maybe that’s something you could discuss trying out to streamline the decision-making process.

  27. Pass the Just-For-Men*

    Hi everyone. I need some clarity and opinions from a more diverse opinion than the voice in my head.

    BACKSTORY: Laid off two months ago, applying like mad, and for the last 3 weeks, have been interviewing very steadily. I’m waiting to hear back on a final interview with the federal government and “should” hear yay-or-nay by this time next week. Beyond that, I have gone through multiple video interviews with two other very large private employers that would only have 1-2 more rounds of interviews tops. The fed and these other employers are my top choices based on multiple factors, with one being they are closer to the industry I would like to stay in. I have other second (of multiple rounds) interviews scheduled, as well as phone screens on the books. All of these are for the same industry, or an industry I would like to get into.

    During all these interviews, I met with another large company in an unrelated industry that I have experience with (working for vendors) and applied for roles to cast a wider net. After one video meeting with an employer in that industry, I determined this wasn’t for me and from there I stopped applying for roles related to them. In fact, after that one and only video meeting, I actually hung up zoom and immediately said “nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope”. There were so many red flags for me. I told my wife that if they called to do a second interview (which would be in-person which they said meeting the person live was paramount to them), I would decline the meeting.

    Well, they did call; but not to schedule another interview, they called to make an offer (bypassing the in-person round). So now I have a dilemma, I do not want to accept the role, but an offer is an offer, and should be considered (especially since I’m not working). It’s a pay cut (about 13%), the benefits are meh, although the retirement is better than my last place, and it’s mostly virtual (so they say, I don’t trust that). When I do have to go in, it’s pretty close (and physically closer to any of the places I’ve interviewed with).

    So, my options are (A) protect my mental health, decline it and hope against hope that one of the other things come through relatively soon, or (B) accept it with a foot out the door from the start. I thought about reaching out to the other places (not the federal), and seeing if I can get a feeler on where I stand, or if they can speed up the process, but they are VERY large organizations and I’m concerned they can’t and would write me off since I mentioned the other offer.

    FWIW, I can go a few more months, but really don’t want to because of employment gap concerns, possible recession, and REALLY missing having income coming in.

    I know others have been in this position, I’ve seen similar posts from Alison regarding it. What are your thoughts? For those in this boat, what did you do, and would you do it again?

    1. BellyButton*

      I just dealt with the same thing! My number one choice was delayed by a big event they were hosting and several key leaders being out with Covid. I kept interviewing and got an offer from a company I did not want to work for, but after 3 months without a job, my panic started to set in. I told them I would need a week to consider their offer. I reached out to my number one choice and let them know that I was entering the final interview stages with a couple of other organizations and didn’t want to miss out on the opportunity with them. I asked if they could give an update on their timeline. That sped them up and I was able to have the final interview and got the written job offer yesterday.

      I knew I wouldn’t be happy at the company that gave me the first offer, but if I hadn’t gotten an offer this week I was going to take it with a start date of 9/12 and hope for an offer for something I actually wanted before that date.

      I don’t know if this helps, but it is what I’ve been going through.

      1. Pass the Just-For-Men*

        That’s great you got a week. My offer came in yesterday and I have to push just to have the weekend. They wanted to know by now. Happy to hear that it worked out for you. I’m thinking of reaching out to one place to test the waters.

        1. Observer*

          It sounds to me like this job could really backfire on you. You already found a bazillion issues, and now they are trying to steam roll you into giving them an answer. I would worry that not only will your mental health suffer (and that’s not a minor issue!) but you might find yourself leaving that job under less than positive circumstances. That’s not going to be good for your resume, either.

    2. Alice*

      Difficult situation. From the outside, it sounds like you have a lot of irons in the fire, and I bet another offer will come pretty soon, even if you decline this one. I get how it’s nervewracking though!

    3. Mid*

      I’d decline. Your first reaction to them was “nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.” You also don’t trust them, and you say that declining them would “protect your mental health.” I know it’s scary to be unemployed, but I really wouldn’t take a position that you have this many negative feelings about before you even start it.

      1. Ins mom*

        Go with your gut reaction- nope nope nope. If they offered so quickly they are in a pinch- and you don’t want to be there with them

      3. My Useless 2 Cents*

        Agree. There was something about this company that had you saying nope immediately. Trust that.

      4. The New Wanderer*

        Absolutely – you mentioned red flags and your immediate reaction was “nope” and that says it all.

        When I was unemployed after a layoff, I had an interview at a company where I came out thinking “eh, maybe?” but they called the same day with an offer and wouldn’t give me more than 24 hours to consider. That, plus some pending interviews at other places, was enough to push me to decline. I ended up not getting another offer for a while, so that is a significant financial risk, but I also think I would have continued to job hunt while in the role I turned down.

    4. SomebodyElse*

      Honestly, if it were me I’d take it, but continue looking and actively interviewing. Best case scenario you take the job and get a better offer quickly. Worst case scenario you don’t take the job and don’t get an offer quickly.

      I’m totally risk adverse when it comes to employment though :)

      1. Pass the Just-For-Men*

        Same! As much as I do not want this job, I am leaning towards taking it just because, but I know I would be hating life, and let’s face it, looking for a job is practically a full-time job. I spend 8:30 – 4p every day in my desk chair searching, applying, writing cover letters, on calls/zooms, and tailoring thank you notes and it’s exhausting.

        So I know if I take this job, I won’t have the energy to keep that up (or the time) and I’ll feel stuck if this offer stinks. On the flip, it’s a blessing to be in this situation and am very grateful for the offer, but if it could have been for virtually anything else I was going for.

        1. Jora Malli*

          This feels like even more reason not to take the job. If taking it means you’re less likely to have enough bandwidth to keep searching, you may end up trapped in a horrible situation for a very long time.

        2. A Girl Named Fred*

          I can only speak to my own situation, and of course your mileage may vary, but I was in a similar situation back in February and ended up taking the job despite all of its red flags. I wish I had declined it. I’m exactly where you say you worry you’d be -spending so much energy just keeping myself and my mental health afloat at the day job that I can barely muster the energy to apply to jobs, much less do anything else. If you have other options in the interview phase and your gut reaction to this company was NOPE, I’d advocate for declining it. But I recognize that the financial considerations are often harder than that.

          Best of luck to you with whatever you decide!

    5. Policy Wonk*

      Does the federal job require a security clearance? If so, and you don’t have one, that can take awhile and I’d recommend taking the job now, and keeping your federal candidacy active. If not, I think I’d reach out and ask about the timing of an offer.

      Good luck!

      1. Pass the Just-For-Men*

        They never mentioned if it needs clearance. I don’t think it does. If it does, I think there is some flexibility on that. At the agency my wife works at (which is not the one that I’m hoping for an offer from (or anywhere related to it)), she started working while awaiting the clearance. So if it is needed, hopefully it can be a situation like that.

        1. Policy Wonk*

          You would know – it would normally be listed in the job announcement – so I’d assume you do not need one.

          Hope it all works out.

    6. Westsidestory*

      Decline. Listen to your gut!

      On a practical level, pay cut and meh benefits mean you’ll be unhappy when you work there.

      I’m guessing you grew up with the old “any job is better than no job” and if so you need to discard the desperation script and hang in there. You are getting interviews so clearly you are employable.

    7. LS*

      What if you told them you had more questions and wanted to get a better feel for their culture? Ask them to do the second interview with the team before you make a decision.

      That gives you some more time and gives you a chance to see if your first gut reaction was correct. Their response to that request might give you some good information too.

      1. beach read*

        This. Meet in person at the office. Remember, YOU are interviewing THEM as well. I’m sure you are a great candidate. If they are really interested, invested in you, they should be ok with you requesting to keep the in-person interview after all.

    8. Pass the Just-For-Men*

      Thank you everyone. You confirmed what I was thinking. I gave it a ton of thought over the weekend and decided that while this offer is a blessing, so is my intuition, and I should listen to it.

      This Friday forum is so amazing to have. Thank you Alison!

  28. bennie*

    covering for my boss on her maternity leave through the rest of the year aka basically doing her entire job; they didn’t REALLY need to hire me and i didn’t have enough to do when we were both working here, by in large. i’m now managing some semi major projects and liasing with people across the org etc. can i ask for a raise now or should i wait till the end of the year? family and friends say ask now, my instinct is to ask later. for clarity december will be my 1 year anniversary, and i am pretty underpaid with a low level title. yes, i do intend on finding a new job at some point soon.

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      “family and friends say ask now” family and friends often give bad advice in the name of “helping.”

      I had an employee with a larger tight family she often talked about and boy, they convinced her to say and do really stupid things at times. They always took her side and every thing they said becuase the biggest thing ever that must be resolved now.

      Your case isn’t as bad, but you did say yourself that you wouldn’t have much work if it were not for this covering your boss.

      This all being said, if you are generally underpaid, asking for a raise is a normal response even if you aren’t covering for your boss

    2. ABK*

      I’d recommend waiting until your one year anniversary. December will be here before you know it and by then you will have a few months of experience covering for your boss and will be more valuable to your company.

    3. Anonymous for this*

      If you’re in an interim role, it’s not unusual to get an interim salary bump to cover that so I think that’s totally worth asking about at the very least.

    4. Not A Capital Offense*

      Sorry to be pedantic, but your lack of capital letters at the beginning of sentences bothers me. This would not be acceptable in most work contexts. Why do you write like his? Low-stakes issue, LOL.

  29. Third or Nothing!*

    Just put in my notice at the job I’ve had for 11 years. I’m leaving for a new job that pays 38% more, has even better benefits than the good ones I already have, is permanently remote, and gives me more opportunities to grow and clear career advancement paths. This blog has been a huge help to me over the years with learning more about workplace norms (plus reading highly interesting stories), and now I used the info I learned from y’all to get a better job! Thanks Alison and commenters.

  30. Less Bread More Taxes*

    This is a very low-stakes question. My workplace provides free lunch on Wednesdays. I’m fully remote, but I appreciate that the company is trying to bribe people back and most of my team goes in for it, so I’d like to make the effort to go in as well for the relationship part.

    However, the food is AWFUL for me. I don’t eat meat, and every Wednesday except last week, they’ve only had salad wraps available consisting of tortillas, hummus, and lettuce. Not even other vegetables or a cheese option. Last Wednesday, they offered a chicken curry and a vegetable curry. The chicken curry had chicken (obviously), peppers, onions, and peas. The vegetable curry had… green beans. My partner thinks the chef specifically hates vegetarians.

    Anyway, I start at 10am, and lunch is 12-1. Most people on my team leave around 2 to work from home, otherwise I’d plan to just work the afternoon from the office. Is it appropriate to come in 10-12? How should I explain why I’m leaving and not doing lunch?

    I don’t feel comfortable complaining because it’s free food. I could bring my own food, but I think I’d be singling myself out even more than if I didn’t go at all (it’s a smallish office with about 70 people showing up on Wednesdays). On that note, from what I can see, I am the only vegetarian. I also don’t like the idea of not showing up at all, because it’s the only time I get to see my coworkers face-to-face

    1. ThatGirl*

      Would it be possible to explain this to your manager? Just casually like … explaining that you want the face time, but the food is awful for vegetarians, so unless something gets better you’re going to bring your own food? They can decide whether to run it up the food chain, so to speak.

      FWIW, I am not a vegetarian but I often eat vegetarian options, so if I were at your office I would definitely appreciate having more healthy options.

    2. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I don’t think it’s complaining. I am a manager and am more concerned about free stuff getting used than my feelings being hurt when they tell me they hate the free stuff!

    3. Dr. Laboratoria*

      This is a toughy – I have a similar issue. I can’t eat dairy (I love dairy, but it does not love me, lol).
      Our bosses love to bring in pizza, pasta covered in cheeses, ice cream, etc. I wish they would order more healthy options, honestly.

      One thing I would do is figure out who is actually ordering the food and request that they also offer a good, vegetarian option. Butter them up a bit, right? “Thank you so much for ordering food for all of us! If I could make a request…”.

      You’re not the only one with dietary needs, so I imagine they will be accommodating.

    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      Bring your own food. Sit with the team. Just a breezy “Oh I’m trying a new diet and want to make my own stuff” will work but honestly, just saying a simple “I’m vegetarian and I need to eat something with more protein so I brought my own” is fine. Plenty of people have celiacs etc where cross contamination is a concern, or religious restrictions on how the food is prepared, or just enough allergies that shared food isn’t great for them. People are used to people needing to opt out of food being offered.

    5. Fluffy Fish*

      If I were paying a caterer to provide a perk for my staff, I would 100000000% want to know of any issues.

      Not personally liking a given option – not something to complain about.

      Consistently subpar options for vegetarians? Absolutely – it’s not just a you problem in any case. There are people who opt for non-meat options for reasons other that vegetarianism including religious and medical.

      Please say something to your boss or the person whos coordinating the catering. Just keep it matter of fact and provide examples (the curry one is very illustrative).

      If it doesn’t change, then I agree with the poster who suggested bringing your own lunch.

    6. Llellayena*

      I’m not vegetarian and I would complain about those vegetarian options. I eat meat but I’m more likely to select a vegetarian option when something is catered. So I’d just talk to the person ordering the food to see if they can come up with some better vegetarian options.

    7. Charlotte Lucas*

      Fellow vegetarian here, & I feel your pain. I now work somewhere with a vegan in a high-level position, & there is definitely more effort put into having better options (these are for potlucks – government work generally doesn’t lead to free lunches).

      It is not unreasonable to ask for better options for those on a restricted diet. I love green beans, but a green bean curry is not a full lunch. If the point is to get people back in the office, they should be providing something that makes you want to be there.

    8. HR Exec Popping In*

      This isn’t a big deal. You don’t have to eat provided food. Bring your own food and simply explain that you don’t eat XYZ. People won’t care. I have a very restrictive diet and often attend all day meetings where breakfast and lunch are provided and I almost never eat anything provided. I bring my own. Sometimes someone comments but normally no one says a word. It is your body and you get to eat what you want.

    9. AnonyMouse*

      So just to clarify, you want to go to in-person team meetings from 10am – noon and then leave to work from home for the rest of the day? Or are you just working on your own, but saying hi to people while at the office? I think this matters because it dictates how important the social time at lunch is. If you’re already getting face time with coworkers from 10-12pm, I think you can just leave, and if your manager asks, I would be honest and in a matter of fact way say that you’re a vegetarian and the free food options aren’t great for you. As long as you aren’t demanding that they provide something different, it’s just the truth!

      1. Less Bread More Taxes*

        No, my work is very individual, so really eating lunch and a morning coffee break is the only time I get with coworkers. I think just casually bringing my own food and not making it a big deal is the best option – I’m not confrontation-avoidant, but I agree that this doesn’t seem like a good use of capital. If someone asks, I’ll let them know about the poor options, but I’ll try not to make it a thing. I didn’t mention that I’m very new to this company, just less than two months in.

        1. AnonyMouse*

          With those details, I totally agree with this plan! If you’re new and don’t know people well, bringing your own lunch seems like the way to go. And that wrap sounds awful!

    10. WellRed*

      For heaven’s sake, please speak up. Vegetarianism is hardly new and unusual in this day and age.

      1. My Useless 2 Cents*

        Agree. There are a LOT of good options for vegetarians. Offering up options that are popular with everyone not just vegetarians could be a huge plus (I’m thinking something like Mac&Cheese).

        Just a thought, are they trying to make sure the vegetarian options are also vegan (just-in-case). While there are plenty of vegan options out there, vegan options can be very limiting and harder to provide in larger/catering type situations.

      2. Reba*

        Yes, you can straightforwardly mention to your manager or ideally, the lunch-arranger, that the veg option is generally inadequate.

        This is not like a social situation where you want to delicately avoid criticizing someone’s cooking. This is a business situation where a vendor isn’t meeting the company’s needs.

    11. Chaordic One*

      I’m in this situation. (Allergic to tomatoes, dairy and soy and my workplace thinks pizza parties are a great way to motivate us on the days we have to work in the office. My work unit was the most productive 2 quarters in a row.) I ignore the pizza and bring my own lunch. But yeah, it sucks.

    12. polka-dotted giraffe*

      I would go 10-1 or 10-2, and either eat your own food or eat lunch at your desk before hand and pick at the food that’s there. You can specifically call-out that the vegetarian option sucks. My experience has been that a lot of the important face-time happens at lunch.

  31. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

    My grand boss introduced an idea to my team this month that I have come to love. Internally, we are going to set our own individual “core hours”. These are to indicate the time when we are 100% available for meetings/calls/interaction/response and indicate when we would prefer folks schedule/contact us. We all need to ID 3 hrs a day minimum, with at least one full hour block. We already have Tuesdays scheduled as our group meeting/HQ folks come to office if needed day, so this is more for scheduling smaller meetings and knowing the best time for getting in touch with someone immediately. At first I was skeptical and thought it would be an added complication to our already complicated cat herding, but it really works nicely. There are about 10 hours a week where we all have core hours and there is something lovely about knowing those are the hours where when you reach out to someone you know it is a good time. And it makes the whole time zone thing easier because I just plug other folks availability into my calendar in my time zone.

    Anyone else work somewhere that does something similar? What other ways do places try and manage this kind of thing?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Every Monday I have 3 hours of scheduled regular (weekly) meetings. I’m not sure I could carve out 3hrs on top of that and still get much work done in my day. How frequently do you end up needing all 3 hrs for additional meetings with people? What happens if you are in your open hours and having an unscheduled meeting with Jane’s group and then Bob’s group comes up and also wants to use this time block to meet? You’re back to square 0 for finding a time to meet Bob’s group. 3 hrs also just seems like a massive amount of time to have open office hours to me.

      1. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

        Ah, I see I didn’t explain myself very well. Our group doesn’t do spontaneous meetings unless there is an epic crisis (hasn’t happened yet). Our core hours are more for “If you need to book anything with me, these are the times I have” or “If you need to call me for some reason/need a fast response, these are the best hours.”

        Thus far I have been using the schedule to put my “must concentrate without interruption” to-do items outside of my “core hours” so I know that I can put my head down and ignore the world. During my core hours (I have 10am -12pm M and Th as core), I do more interruptible tasks. I never thought it would actually work, but it really seems to work with my team.

  32. Need sleep*

    How much pain can you be in and still go to work, or at what point does it simply get ridiculous?
    I was crying on the couch in the quiet room today because of leg pain and exhaustion (Got so many cups of tea from my coworkers!) Finally after taking 600 mg Ibuprofen the fog lifted and I could get back downstairs to slowly do the work I could do sitting down. I am off all work that requires standing/walking. Waiting to hear back from blood results. I should just call in sick but so many of my coworkers are either on holiday or are on extended illness leave and I am the second backup so the only one left to do a lot of the administrative tasks (has to be done at work).

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I’d simply not come in if I was in so much pain I was crying. I can’t do a good job that way anyway

      1. Need sleep*

        I wasn’t crying when I got to work but walking up the stairs to the staff rooms is at this point a no-go. It destroys me every single time.

    2. KoiFeeder*

      For me personally, it depends on whether or not I can do the job without having to go over everything again the next day. If I’m fixing about a quarter or more of what I accomplished the day before, or only completing half or less of the workload, it’s not worth it.

      Also, this is one of those nebulous social skills things that I am notoriously bad at so take me with a grain of salt, but how are your coworkers feeling about the crying thing? If you’re crying every week, that might be getting uncomfortable for them.

      1. Need sleep*

        I honestly hadn’t thought about my colleagues… They seem very worried and one has strongly hinted that I should call in sick. This is the first time I’ve cried that hard, it’s just been a few tears a couple of times the last two weeks.
        It’s sounding more and more ridiculous that I’m not calling in sick. I guess I needed to write it down to see it.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          I don’t blame you for not thinking about them. When you’re in pain, especially to that level, the pain itself takes up so much of a mental load that a lot of things just fall through the cracks.

    3. Mbarr*

      Oof, that’s rough. When I was going through a 2 month pain period (undiagnosed herniated disc), I wish someone had told me to just go on short term disability sooner rather than later.

      That being said, I DID power through the pain and show up at work every day… But in retrospect, my brain was NOT working right due to the amount of pain I was in.

      I hope you feel better soon!

      1. Need sleep*

        Thanks! Yes, I guess I’m just waiting for someone else’s “permission” to do it. But I don’t need anyone else’s “permission”, I can just do it. The things one’s brain wants to power through…

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          I hereby grant you permission. If you need to feel like you’re doing the right thing by other people if you call in sick, I guarantee any coworkers who are newer or less-senior than you are wondering, “damn, do I have to keep working if I ever feel that crappy? Is this place really that unreasonable?” Show them that’s not true and take off sick.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      Unless it’s chronic pain you have every day for the rest of your life that can’t be helped, I’d say any pain you have would warrant not going to work.

      1. PurplePenguin*

        As someone who has a chronic pain condition, that just sounds nuts to me – the world doesn’t stop turning just because someone is in pain. If I rested and took it easy every time I was in pain, I’d be able to work maybe 10-15 hours a week. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any job that pays enough to live off of that has such short and flexible hours, so I spend most of my time at work with a moderate level of pain.

        To OP – recognize that your work is NOT more important that your health. I recognize you likely need to keep your job, but you should be doing the bare minimum required in order to keep your job and not make your life harder down the road. Like KoiFeeder said, if you’re making a lot of mistakes then you’re likely just making more work for yourself, so you should stop. Work slowly, take as many breaks as you need, and recognize that the world won’t end if the tasks you’re working on are delayed. Also, use those breaks to do things that will make you hurt less, if you have any idea what that is.
        If this is something that’s likely going to last a while, I think investigating short-term disability is a great choice – I ended up having to use FMLA for a couple months while I was getting my footing after my diagnosis and it was invaluable time to recover physically (to some degree – I’ve still got a chronic illness, but it gave a breather to recover from stress of constantly pushing through the pain) and figure out how to move forward.

        2. Anonymous Educator*

          I wasn’t suggesting that if you have chronic pain you should never take a day off. I’m just saying the threshold is not likely “any pain means a day off” if you’re in pain constantly.

          1. Jora Malli*

            This is a good way of putting it. I have chronic pain, and I go to work as long as the pain’s not higher than a 4. When it crosses that threshold, I take some time off to rest and get things under control. But if the threshold was “if you’re in any pain at all, don’t go to work,” I’d never be at work.

    5. Annie*

      I burned out badly working through pain and it led me to quit my job when I shouldn’t have. I could have handled it all way better, in retrospect. I had the option to work from home and didn’t take it because it was the early days of the pandemic and other people who wanted to work from home weren’t allowed to, so I told my boss I wasn’t going to work from home and then tell others they weren’t allowed to do the same thing. I was in so much pain, I should have worked from home. It was an awful situation and awful timing. I had a 7 cm endometrioma (ovarian cyst) that kept rupturing and putting me in the hospital at risk for sepsis. I was instructed by my doctor not to exercise or leave the state. My surgery to remove it got cancelled because of covid and I had to wait 3 extra months. I took a bunch of unpaid time off that practically ruined me after the surgery, and still had to go back before I was ready. I just remember creeping sllowwwlllyyy up the stairs, step by step by step. (There was an elevator but it was just one floor so I felt like I shouldn’t use it. I was a stubborn dumbass.) I was so burned out I quit and later regretted it. I’m actually back at the same company now and would handle the situation differently in the future – I would have worked from home, not tried to do everything, taken the elevator, and pushed to take more time off and use our short term disability. I felt so trapped at the time and like I would be in that much pain forever so there was no point in making accommodations for myself because I’d better just get used to it. But the pain ended and I’m usually not in any pain now.

    6. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      Take care of yourself! You are not your employer’s solution for lack of proper resource planning. Go home and rest! Your body is telling you something serious is going on. I know it will seem strange to not push yourself to work…that used to be me. But it’s not worth your health. Feel better soon!

  33. Golden*

    I’m not sure if this is better suited for the weekend thread, but are any nurses here that can help me (a patient) out with a question?

    I recently had a baby, and both my delivery nurse and the baby’s nurse were fantastic in every sense of the word. I’d like to write a letter to someone at the hospital letting them know what a great job the two nurses did. How can I maximize how helpful this will be to the nurses? (Who to address the letter to, what details to include, etc.)

    Side question: a doctor involved in my care was pretty rude to my delivery nurse the whole time, but she handled it with utmost professionalism and didn’t seem to let it ruffle her. Any language I can use to convey that without throwing the doctor under the bus or taking away from the main point of the nurses’ awesomeness?

    1. Dr. Laboratoria*

      There is a national award called The Daisy Award that would be a great way to say thank you to your nurses – https://www.daisyfoundation.org/daisy-award. The hospital should also have a form to fill out. When you go to your next well baby for the kiddo or for an appointment for yourself, ask about it.

      As for the doctor – the hospital should send you a survey and I would put down that you found the attending physician rather rude and did not have good bedside manner. The nurses know that that doctor is an A$$, but hearing directly from a patient gets notice. I had a horrible on call physician who landed me an extra day in the hospital due to their incompetence. I was honest about that in the survey. They were quietly retired after that.

      1. Golden*

        Thank you! I wasn’t aware of that award, but the hospital actually has a DAISY award online form on their website. There’s plenty of details and nomination timelines too, so it doesn’t look like it gets dumped into the ether like some online forms.

        Sorry about your experience, that sounds awful. Looks like you speaking up led to positive change though.

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      [Not a nurse, so what do I know … but … ]
      You could address it to the Director of Nursing or some similar title if you can’t find an actual name on the hospital online directory. I would also send copies directly to the nurses. And copies to the HR dept or the Hospital CEO would be just fine too.

      As far as the whole doctor thing, I guess I’d ask if the doc’s behavior impacted your experience as a patient, and honestly, I wouldn’t be afraid (especially if the doc was a negative experience to you too) to say something like “Nurse Jane’s amazingly unflappable demeanor kept me calm during a stressful time, not just in how she helped me through the labor process. Even when being treated brusquely by Dr X, which could have increased my anxiety, she remained cool and professional.”

      1. Golden*

        Thanks! The doctor wasn’t warm and fuzzy with me (which is fine), but not rude either. She was to the nurse though, and it just felt unprofessional of her to act that way in front of a patient. Brusque is a good word, I think I’ll borrow it.

    3. Dr. Laboratoria*

      There is a national award called The Daisy Award for recognizing amazing nurses. Your hospital/clinic should have a form to fill out, so ask at your or your kiddo’s next appointment.

      You probably will get a survey about your experience. Talk up the nurses big time. And put in that you found the attending physician rude to staff and had poor bedside manner. I guarantee the nurses already know that physician is rude. When a patient says it, the hospitals tend to take action.

    4. Jay*

      Write a letter to her direct supervisor and cc the Director of Nursing. I’m a doctor and I think you should mention the unprofessional doc – by name if possible. That behavior that been tolerated for far too long and many institutions are now taking it seriously. You can do it without taking away from the main point of the letter: “I was particularly impressed with her professional attitude despite Dr. Jerk’s rudeness.” I strongly suspect they know about Dr. Jerk and a documented patient comment may be what they need to take action.

      And congrats!

      1. Angstrom*

        It sounds like two letters might be better here. One to praise the nurses, and the other to describe the doctor’s behavior. That way one doesn’t dilute the impact of the other.

    5. The teapots are on fire*

      Why not throw the doctor under the bus? If they are so stressed that are rude to nurses, either they need help and support or they need to be told not to act like jerks. It is very possible this doctor is rude to nurses at other times when patients aren’t watching.

    6. Observer*

      Any language I can use to convey that without throwing the doctor under the bus or taking away from the main point of the nurses’ awesomeness?

      Why would you consider a factual description of the Doctor’s behavior “throwing him under the bus”? You are not making stuff up, blaming him for someone else’s behavior or focusing on him when others were equally guilty.

  34. ferrina*

    When should a company communicate that an employee is laid off/fired? My company is 150-200 people, and three people were just terminated in the last couple weeks (I don’t know the details- I think one was fired, and I’m pretty sure that none of the cases were related). My company didn’t relay this until over a week later in an general email, and didn’t mention that the most junior person had left. It was frustrating because I had recently collaborated with one of the people and was giving him credit for his work in conversations, including after he was gone! (because I had no idea he was gone!). Another person was someone I was trying to schedule a meeting with. My position is unique the company in that I communicate with almost everyone, so maybe I’m biased by the inconvenience.

    Is this normal for a company this size?

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      Normally if people leave very quickly they were fired or laid off. Sometimes they resigned and the company walks them out for some reason but that is unusual. In large companies unless the person is very senior nothing is said except your boss to the dept if it was a coworker. Think of it this way, if you were fired, would you want a communication going out to the company telling them that? I know it is frustrating but it happens.

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Hm…in my opinion, I’d say up to two weeks (10 business days) seems reasonable for a large company to send out a company wide announcement. They may have been scrambling to take care of things like knowledge transfer, closing down their account access, handling the paperwork, etc. I would expect IT to setup an automessage, at least internally, to let people know they aren’t around if you try to schedule a meeting with them.

      I think it’s normal and even good that you were still crediting your former coworker for the work he did. That work is still valuable, so he deserves credit for it. At my current job, a senior person left last year and we’re still crediting his work on a project that’s still ongoing.

    3. kiki*

      My current company is small (50) and departures are announced within the day. At my last job that was larger (500) departure announcements weren’t made to the whole company, but they were made to the specific department or team somebody worked in pretty immediately.

      I might try to find out if the departure was announced to specific teams or departments earlier. If so, I would try to ask your boss or HR if you can be notified of departures earlier, since you work with everyone but wouldn’t receive the notices that are going to departments or teams.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      Immediate coworkers should know…immediately. I’ve seen e-mails going out to my office when someone was fired that said “as of today, Wakeen is no longer employed at LlamaCorp. Please address any questions about alpaca shearing to Tangerina instead.” I don’t think a (large) department-wide announcement ever went out, but the communication happened organically. Wakeen’s colleague who was taking over on various projects contacted the others involved in the projects to say “Wakeen’s last day at LlamaCorp was Friday, and I’m going to be taking his place on Project X. Can you please add me to the meetings for that project going forward?”

    5. Agile Phalanges*

      My current company never officially announces someone’s departure, which is weird to me.

      A prior company I worked in had multiple locations, so it was kind of important to know that sending an e-mail to so-and-so wasn’t going to get you an answer, so they would announce departures the day they were effective, and the announcement if you weren’t a close co-worker to them and know whether they gave notice or not, didn’t specify. “Today is ____’s last day with the company. If you need assistance with X, contact Y, or for issues with A, contact B.”

      Of course, if you knew they’d given notice, or they also sent a separate good-bye e-mail themselves, you knew it likely wasn’t a firing, but if you didn’t work closely with the person and just heard the official announcement on their last day, you wouldn’t ever really know for sure. Seems like the best solution–folks need to know, but they don’t need to know the surrounding details if they don’t already have some idea themselves…

    6. Chaordic One*

      Unfortunately, it is normal and (IMHO) not very professional. Simply from the perspective of logistics (your trying to set up a meeting with someone who no longer works there). You may have considered your praising the former co-worker who no longer works there as a bit awkward but it wasn’t your fault and, even if he no longer works there, he may well deserve a few kudos.

      IMHO it is best to get these kinds of things out in the open right away, lest they fester and lead to even more gossip. The notice, usually emailed, doesn’t have to go into detail, but should just say something terse like, Effective today, Wakeem will no longer be filling the position of Head Llama Groomer. Please forward all Llama Grooming requests to Assistant Llama Groomer, Fergus, until further notice.” Probably not a hill to die on. You probably work for jerks.

      1. Angstrom*

        My current company never announces departures. It is frustrating and leads to rumors and confusion. HR claims some sort of legal issue with sending a notice.

        A previous employer would do a same-day generic “Fergus has left the company. We thank them for their contributions and wish them well” notice for departures for any reason. That was helpful.

    7. polka-dotted giraffe*

      my company of ~200 people does not inform us if someone is fired unless they are at the c-suite level.

    8. AHH! The mediocrity!*

      I once worked as a front desk admin for an international company, answering phones and directing calls across the world. I was never told when people left and the company took forever disconnecting voicemail boxes. Repeated calls would come in for x person now gone and the caller couldn’t understand why they weren’t getting a call back. I would finally find out x person left the company. I don’t need the reason a person left, but I would’ve appreciated knowing they were gone.

  35. Kitano*

    I need help telling if I’m too sensitive or if a senior staffer is actually being unprofessional.

    On a scale of 1-10, how rude is it for an exec to say the following:

    “No, your opinion is not required.” in an all-company meeting when a junior staffer with subject matter expertise raised their hand to ask if they can offer relevant information that might change the exec’s proposed approach

    “Oh my god, you haven’t even gotten the listing up yet? You were approved to do that two weeks ago!” In response to a supremely overworked Comms staffer saying that they haven’t had time to put a new announcement on the website because of XYZ other emergent issues.

    Publicly removing a staffer from a task in an all-hands meeting because she kept asking the exec tough questions about upcoming projects that the exec didn’t have answers to.

    I’m trying to calibrate how I should bring this issue up with our Big Boss, as the exec in question who says these things only brings out this behavior when Big Boss is gone. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

      1. CharlieBrown*

        Agreed. What struck me about the first one is that there is a huge difference between information and opinion. It sounds like the exec values their own opinion over other people’s knowledge. Ugh.

    2. Bagpuss*

      I think it is appropriate to rias the issues because they are all things which will have an effect on morale – plus if the exec only behaves this way when Boss is not there, it suggests that they are awareBoss would not be OK with it .

      I think I would raise it as a concern – e.g. flag that you are concerned that exec comes across as dismissive and critical and this is discouraging other staff members from participating and having an negative impace on moral

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        plus if the exec only behaves this way when Boss is not there, it suggests that they are awareBoss would not be OK with it .

        Precisely. Big Boss needs to know this is happening so it can be shut down. The exec is out of control.

    3. Prospect Gone Bad*

      These execs sound like a disaster! I always love talking to “lower level” people since they are in the weeds and see so many issues and solutions execs don’t see.

    4. Lady Wobbleworth*

      Nope, you’re not being sensitive.

      The lack of professionalism and the Exec’s behaviour towards staff is appalling. There is never a reason to dismiss rudely, be condescending, or be generally rude to anyone you work with.

      So, yes, please bring it up to your Big Boss, but not in a “Exec is a flipping jerk” way, but rather how their communication style, the dismissal of collaboratives processes, the lack of understanding of competing priorities amongst the team, and public dismissal of individual staff contributions are affecting X,Y,Z in your work and the teams work.

      The Exec knows this is wrong or unacceptable as he only brings out these behaviours when the Big Boss is not there.

    5. FashionablyEvil*

      In particular, the fact that all of these things are happening in public is a serious problem—I’m a firm believer in praising in public and correcting in private. Who would be motivated by someone who they know might lambaste them in public?

    6. Nesprin*

      9/10 for “your opinion not required” if opinion is informed, timely, and valuable and not just Steve Who Has An Opinion On Everything. For Steve, still pretty rude- 4/10.
      5/10 for rudeness when a overworked staffer didn’t do the thing for 2 weeks, 7/10 if staffer has asked for help getting thing done and not received it.
      3/10 for pulling someone who would be disruptive to an all hands from that meeting. 6/10 for publicly announcing that person is being pulled. 9/10 for pulling someone who is asking tough but fair questions in the correct setting.

    7. Can’t Decide on a Screen Name*

      I generally agree with the other commenters thus far. I just want to add that you should be prepared for the possibility that the Big Boss will not believe what you report and see you as a troublemaker or some such. This happened to me earlier this year despite having backup from my manager who witnessed one such blatantly rude incident. Hopefully your Big Boss has stronger management and people skills, but if you have any reason to believe the Big Boss will automatically jump to the Exec’s defense, proceed with caution.

  36. Conferences*

    I’m going to my first in person conference pretty soon (yay!) and am wondering if I made a mistake when picking my hotel roommate? I’m a guy, but am sharing a room with a female coworker that I’m good friends with. We are in a decently progressive field and my boss/team didn’t bat an eye at this, but the hotel will be full of people going to the conference and I’m wondering if it could come across weirdly/inappropriately?

    1. Kitano*

      I think as long as you are normal about it (ex: not going out of your way to bring it up, answering matter-of-factly “oh yea, that’s just how the dice fell with the allocations, did you see that guy’s cool presentation?”) it won’t be weird. Though if you’re super worried, you could make a point of leaving for the conference separately and being seen apart from her for portions of the day so you don’t look too glued-at-the-hip.

    2. Mid*

      I would hope that in 2022 people are mature enough to not make silly assumptions. And that people aren’t so bored as to pay attention to roommates. If anyone does comment, just react blandly, as if it’s a normal unremarkable thing, because it is a normal, unremarkable thing.

      1. CharlieBrown*

        This.

        If anyone thinks it’s weird, that’s a huge reflection on them, and not on this situation.

    4. CheeryO*

      Honestly, I’d probably find it a little odd, but I’ve also never had to share a room for work travel. If that’s the norm for your company, it might be less weird.

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        This is where I’m at. I’ve never shared accommodations, but I know that for organizations/companies with smaller budgets for things like this, having coworkers room together is the norm. I couldn’t do it though, regardless of gender.

    5. AnonArchivist*

      I don’t think anyone will notice or care. If this is an academic conference, I am going to give you the best advice about conferences I ever got which is- don’t skip a single social event. The whole point of these things is to network if you can, so try to make sure you go to every cocktail party, brown bag lunch, dinner night, etc. that you can. Skip a talk or two if you need too, but try not to skip any of the social stuff. Have fun. Good luck.

      1. Conferences*

        Thanks, I will keep that in mind! Not totally sure what to expect, but excited to hopefully hear about some cool research and meet people from other institutions that are doing exciting work :)

    6. Conferences*

      Thanks everyone, this is pretty much what I figured (something between no one will notice/care to someone may think to themselves “huh that’s a little odd” and then move on), but im new to professional travel and wanted to make sure! Fwiw, same gender rooming is definitely the norm (including for my team). There is some additional context that my team is aware of that makes this sensible, but others won’t have that so I got a little nervous.

    7. PollyQ*

      I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong or weird, but be aware that many people are going to assume that you’re a romantic couple based on this.

    8. Jo*

      Wanted to chime in that I’m a woman who has shared a hotel room with a male colleague at a conference before–we were comfortable with each other and wanted to save money on hotel costs. Most people we met at the conference would have no way of knowing we were sharing a room. For people who did know, as far as I could tell nobody gave it a second thought.

  37. Hotdesking problems*

    We are back in person for 1 day every 2 weeks. This is to do things that cannot be done remotely. During the pandemic it was fine not to do them because the whole world was shut down but they can’t be stopped permanently or the company would go out of business.

    My company downsized to a smaller space. The desks are all exactly the same. Each one has a monitor and laptop docking station. There are lockers for us to store our bags and stuff. Each employee has an assigned chair that is adjusted how they want. The desks are not assigned though and you grab your assigned chair from the far wall and pick a desk. There are no offices or meetings rooms. Just the bathrooms, the mail room and the office room. The in person day is meant only to complete the tasks you can’t do remotely. That day is automatically blocked on everyone’s calendar to show they aren’t available for meetings or calls. We don’t have a lot of them anyways but the in person day isn’t meant for doing work that can be done remotely.

    The problem I’m having is that one of my employees gets upset if someone else uses the desk she wants. Even if that’s on the days she is working from home. If anyone else uses it she badgers them and tells them to move She says she likes that desk the best. But they are all the exact same. The office room has no windows. Every desk has walkways in front of and behind it. They can be adjusted to any height for sitting and standing.

    It’s escalated because now if someone else takes “her” desk she has twice moved their laptop and chair to another desk when they are in the mail room or the bathroom. I have told her desks are not assigned and she can’t expect no one to use the desk on days she is not in, or to not take it if they were there first.

    She started in the summer of 2020 right after she graduated from college. From my understanding she has had two other jobs both in clothing stores while she was in school, but this is first full time job and first one in our industry. I see potential in her but this desk issue is threatening to derail it.

    1. Not a hustler, don't play one on t.v.*

      This isn’t kindergarten where she can hog the toys. Maybe she has a phobia and you can ask if that’s influencing her behavior? Is she worried about germs? I’d hope that everyone is wiping desks down between uses – maybe that upsets her? She needs your guidance on appropriate office and inter-personal behavior in which she doesn’t place herself front and center. Her moving other peoples items is a complete lack of disrespect for others/things and their working relationship.

      Nip it in the bud.

      We’re a fundraising team of 5 that has 2x in office/3x WFH. Four of us share (2) desks and if we all are in at the same time, and it’s not our day, we find another desk (we have a flex/volunteer desk and a conference table in our boss’ office). We’ve made it work and we love our in office and our work from home time. I think we’re getting to be a better team, too.

      1. Hotdesking problems*

        I don’t believe it is an issue with germs, as hand sanitizer and wipes are provided by the company for us to wipe down the desks and mail room equipment. Additionally she had to be reminded to put her mask on before coming inside the building back when we first returned to in person work. I’ve never her seen her wipe down the desk or anything in the mail room or heard her express alarm about germs.

        1. Lindy's Homemade*

          It doesn’t really matter *why* she’s doing it, even if it were a COVID-related concern. She is way out of line and the longer you don’t do anything about it, the lower your colleagues’ opinion of you will sink. Next thing you know, they’re all getting jobs elsewhere because their boss won’t stand up to a weird bully.

          “I have told her desks are not assigned and she can’t expect no one to use the desk on days she is not in, or to not take it if they were there first.”
          Time to enforce actual consequences (i.e. termination) and stick to them.

          Also, her job history doesn’t really matter here. Lots of people get office jobs shortly out of college, with retail being their only previous experience, and somehow manage to not be a weirdo like your employee. She’s just being a butt-head and you need to act like a manager and put a stop to it already.

          1. tessa*

            As a former co-worker of a similarly rude employee, I can say this is spot on. The only thing worse than such a co-worker is the boss who ignores the hostility and rudeness.

        2. Philosophia*

          Once in the Before Times I bought a drink & pastry at a coffee shop and sat down at a clean, empty table to enjoy the treats and read. Someone came in and claimed that I was at her table. I inquired, “Oh, were you sitting here?” preparatory to apologizing and moving to another spot—there were plenty of tables open—but no, she had not been sitting there; she merely asserted it was her table, no reason given. I stayed put. Fortunately she did the same and merely glared. I see no reason you should indulge your employee’s high-handedness either, and plenty of reasons you shouldn’t.

      2. KoiFeeder*

        You aren’t allowed to hog the toys in kindergarten, either.

        Admittedly, I’m curious as to what about this desk makes her like it so much, but I agree that it should be stopped. Moving other peoples’ stuff (?!) is out of line.

        1. Observer*

          You aren’t allowed to hog the toys in kindergarten, either.

          True. But in kindergarten, you explain and are gentle and act with a lot of patience because you need to teach kids how to manage this. By the time you’re in second grade or so, though, that’s no longer the case.

      3. Observer*

        This isn’t kindergarten where she can hog the toys.

        Yup.

        Maybe she has a phobia and you can ask if that’s influencing her behavior?

        Nope. I’m with the others who say it doesn’t matter why she’s doing this. And it’s really inappropriate for a manager to start trying to diagnose and / or ask about potential mental health issues because someone is misbehaving.

        Nip it in the bud.

        100% And do it regardless of possible reasons.

    2. Kitano*

      Sounds like it’s time for a more serious conversation where you tell her point blank to stop. Something like “I might not have been clear about this up until now, so I wanted to set the record straight – you have a lot of potential for growth at this company, but your unprofessional approach to our shared office space has become a major problem. No one at this company has assigned seating, so you can’t expect others to avoid using your favorite desk just because you laid “dibs”. I find it especially egregious that you’ve been moving people’s belongings without permission and badgering other employees about the desk even when you’re not in the office, and both of those behaviors have to stop right now. Can you tell me why the desk has become such a sticking point for you?”

      And then see what she says. If it’s immature and territorial, then handle it like a professionalism problem and tell her point-blank that a PIP will be needed if she can’t stop. But maybe there’s some legit reason for why she’s doing this, so you should try to sus that out first.

      1. Bagpuss*

        This. I think you need to have a direct conversation.

        I agree that it is reasonableto ask her why she has such strong feelings about thae desk and why she feels it is acceptable to move other people’s belongings, but also to expressly tell her that she is not to move other people’s things and that while she is free to use her preferred desk on the days she is in the office, provided that it is not already in use when she arrives, it is not her desk and she is not to interfere with others use of it, and has no authority to tell anyone else not to use it.

        As she is so junior and new to this type of work environment, I would also be very clear that she is beahving in a way which makes her look very unprofessional and is likely to be having an negative impact on her working relationships with her colleagues, and tht being able to work well with others is importnat in most workplaces .

        To me, the moving other people’s stuff would actually be a much bigger issue than her making comments to others, although I think it’s reasonable to talk to her about both. That’s the one which I think I would be making clear puts her well into PIP and potenttial dismissal territory.

        1. Books and Cooks*

          Yes. Ask why! Talk to her about it!

          I actually sympathize with the girl. (I remember once in fourth grade someone took my chair, and I was very upset about it and tried to get it back, to the point that my teacher had to come deal with it. Yes, I was only nine, but I still remember how helpless I felt, and feeling stupid about feeling helpless and knowing nobody else thought it was a big deal–my teacher didn’t even make the thief give it back, which still kind of amazes me–made it worse.) I’ve gotten promotions at jobs that I regretted for weeks afterward because change is often very difficult for me. Of course, I eventually settled in and was happy, but again, it’s that feeling of helplessness and change. Knowing where you will sit each time you come in is comforting, and can make you feel like you have some control. Situations like this one seem almost designed to make employees feel like they don’t matter–whatever, just fill a desk, nobody cares, you are expendable, nothing here is yours or for you, deal with it.

          So my guess is that your employee wants to have her personal desk, and feel that it is hers, because she wants to feel that she has a place and that she matters, and that she has at least some control.

          I am of course not saying that her behavior is appropriate, because it is absolutely not. I’m just saying that I sympathize. For people with even minor control issues, or issues with change, or problems feeling like they belong, this kind of set-up can be difficult. (I would never, ever touch another person’s things, though!)

          But it is possible that if she feels understood, she’ll feel better about the whole thing. Or maybe she can figure out a way to make her chair the focus of her “belonging,” since no one can take or use that.

          Either way, yes, it needs to be made clear to her that she can’t behave like this, and hopefully if you can present that to her with a little understanding and compassion as well as directness about consequences, the problem will stop.

          I hope that helps.

          (But FTR, I think this set-up sucks.)

          1. Friday, get your Friday here*

            You say the setup sucks, but it makes no sense for OP’s company to keep a larger building just so everyone can have an assigned desk when workers are only in for a day every other week. Also OP points out there are no offices at all so even the management and higher ups are hotdesking when they come in.

            1. Books and Cooks*

              “You say the setup sucks, but it makes no sense for OP’s company to keep a larger building just so everyone can have an assigned desk when workers are only in for a day every other week.”

              Of course that doesn’t make sense. Did someone suggest that?

              At the same time, though, there’s nothing that says each desk can’t be “assigned” to several people (and thus shared), so each can sit at their particular desk on their particular in-office day, at least, and know who will be sitting it at on the days they’re not there–/if/ that’s something the employees would like, or prefer. So they can keep a photo in a drawer, or a spare notepad, or something, and have a spot that at least feels like it’s theirs to some degree. (Who knows, maybe the managers and higher-ups who are also hotdesking might like that, too, since you brought them up.)

              Maybe that’s workable in this office. Maybe it’s not. Maybe every other employee there *loves* hotdesking and thinks it’s super duper fun and just like working in a John Lennon song, so there’s no reason to consider doing anything else. I don’t know. I apologize; I honestly didn’t think that by saying, “I think this set-up/hotdesking sucks,” I would be required to analyze all the reasons for it and potential problems and solutions, rather than just mentioning that I dislike it, too, so I understand why the employee in question dislikes it, though that doesn’t excuse her behavior. (And I’m pretty sure that employee and myself are not the only people in the world who feel that way, especially given that whenever the topic has come up on this site in the past, almost everyone else hated it, too.)

              1. Jojo*

                “At the same time, though, there’s nothing that says each desk can’t be “assigned” to several people”

                The commenter says she gets upset that people use it on the days she isn’t there. Rearranging things so that she always gets it is not going to help the situation.

          2. Tabby Baltimore*

            I think you could be on to something. It’s possible that the desk possessiveness is a proxy for something else altogether. Maybe she is so desperate to feel valued, she has latched on to an inappropriate yardstick (in this case, the willingness of others to give her her preferred desk) with which to measure how other employees value her.
            As several posters said above, though, the why doesn’t really matter; you don’t need her emotional buy-in, you just need her behavior to change.

        2. Observer*

          she is beahving in a way which makes her look very unprofessional and is likely to be having an negative impact on her working relationships with her colleagues, and tht being able to work well with others is importnat in most workplaces .

          Very much this, with one edit. It’s not “likely” that it’s having a negative impact. It’s certain. No one who has dealt with this is going to think well of her.

          To me, the moving other people’s stuff would actually be a much bigger issue than her making comments to others,

          Yes, the badgering of others is very bad in a lot of ways, but actually moving other’s stuff is bad in a way that makes me question whether you should even try to keep her past a stern warning. Because I can kind understand how an inexperienced and slightly immature person might miss the fact that she’s expecting the company to maintain extra space for her and that she’s being seriously rude to her coworkers. But she’s AT least a decade too old to not understand that you DO NOT TOUCH OTHER PEOPLE’S STUFF.

      2. GythaOgden*

        This is a brilliant way of phrasing it. Understanding of issues but firm and telegraphing to her that she’s on thin ice.

    3. WorkerBee*

      This employee would probably benefit from some introspection about why this is such an issue for her. Honestly, I would feel exactly the same way as she does about the situation (in my case, from ND issues around boundaries and being more comfortable when everything is the same) — I’m feeling it right now!

      But I know *why* I feel that way and what’s an appropriate way to address it. When I was younger, I might not have understood my reaction. If I were in this situation today, I’d make an effort to get into work early on desk days to get the space I wanted. And know that it was unreasonable to expect the desk to be vacant otherwise. But I would probably still feel uncomfortable about it.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      You have to tell her “moving someone else’s things from the desk they chose is unacceptable and you need to stop doing it right away.” End of story. And you also need to tell her flat out that not only can she not expect others to avoid taking the desk, but that WHEN others take the desk, she is not to complain about it or pressure them to switch. If she’s really new to workplace norms, you should probably add, “that kind of behavior is very unprofessional, and comes across as selfish and off-putting to your colleagues.”

    5. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      Please be clear and firm with her. At other places (like mine) everything is first come first served, even the coffee cups. And she could get in serious trouble if something goes missing after she moves someone else’s belongings off “her” desk.

    6. Observer*

      From my understanding she has had two other jobs both in clothing stores while she was in school, but this is first full time job and first one in our industry. I see potential in her but this desk issue is threatening to derail it.

      Yes, this behavior SHOULD threaten to derail it. This behavior is obnoxious and totally inappropriate.

      I have told her desks are not assigned and she can’t expect no one to use the desk on days she is not in, or to not take it if they were there first.

      You need to lower the boom. Tell her that she needs to stop doing this. Period. It doesn’t matter whether the desks are “different” or not. No one gets an assigned desk, she needs to stop badgering people and she ABSOLUTELY does not ever get to move people’s stuff!

      There are two things wrong here. One is that she’s mistreating her coworkers. The other thing is that she’s demanding that you waste resources for no functional reason. You’re not going to essentially reduce the space available for staff to pander to her territoriality.

      This is not about it being a first job. Grade schoolers mostly understand that “you get what you get and you don’t get upset”, as well as the difference between “my space” and “shared space.”

      You need to lay this out for her ONCE and then start the progressive discipline. She may be smart but if she can’t get this in check, that’s a HUGE red flag about her ability to behave in a reasonable fashion.

    7. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      She is moving people’s stuff?! Oh h*ll no! Please tell them to stop this immediately, and that their behavior is making you question their ability to be employed at your company. They sound very naïve and immature, and I would be disturbed if someone was touching my stuff while I was using the restroom, and my employer did nothing about it. It’s one thing if the desk was flooding and someone moved my laptop to protect it. Or a ceiling tile had fallen, or something clearly urgent like that. But there is no assigned seating, and someone acts like there is. Please shut that down, and make it clear that behavior will not be tolerated. I have to think there are other ways the employee might be too immature for your organization.

  38. Mid*

    I currently waiting on an offer for a job that was initially advertised as a step down from my current position, but after talking to the director, they want someone who will be making some pretty high level changes to their processes, and is closer to 2-3 steps up. I have no clue what to ask for salary, and I have no clue what they’re going to offer me. I’ve seen the benefits they’re offering, and it’s comparable to my current package (technically slightly worse but my current benefits are *very* good.)

    The role was advertised as, say, a teapot design filing, and when talking to the people who would supervise me, they actually want someone who would change the teapot design process. There are no comparable roles in the company, and I’m not sure what to even title the position to get a better grasp of what I should ask for. The director is also not totally sure how they want the full scope of this role to shape up, and half the work will be actually doing the teapot design filing, while the other half with be the higher level work of trying to change the process.

    I think my best plan is to ask for my current salary + 20%, and also have a review in 6 months, so we can touch base on how the role is shaping up and make adjustments. Is that unreasonable? I feel like I’m Icarus, flying too close to the sun here. This is the kind of work I’ve wanted to do but have very minimal experience with, so this could open so many doors for me, but I’m also concerned about how nebulous this all is. And I don’t want to be under compensated, but also don’t want to ask for the moon and lose this opportunity, or ask for more salary than this role will actually be worth.

    1. Parenthesis Dude*

      Ask them for a salary range.

      But also be careful. I remember a job where I was asked to make major changes while being relatively junior. Instead of being graded at two or three levels above where I was, I was given the junior level role and not enough seniority to make the necessary changes. Turns out the major changes weren’t as much of a priority as I was led to believe.

      1. Mid*

        I am conscious of that, but my interview was with the director of the area, who fully buys into the changes, we discussed specifics, and I also talked with someone who directly reported to the director who gave me specifics of this director making necessary changes in the past. While nothing is 100%, I do believe this role will be empowered enough to make the changes that are necessary, and that the changes are actually necessary.

    2. Mid*

      Oh! Update: I just (as in seconds ago) got a call, and they adjusted the title and salary range. I guess the problem resolved itself?

  39. Lavender*

    I lead a team that works with internal teams on crucial projects. We provide expertise and guidance. We used to be very meeting heavy in our approach and got feedback that it was too much. We created written materials for them to digest and use on their own and scaled down meetings. Well, inevitably, no one is reading any of the written materials and are complaining that they don’t know what’s going on and are doing things that are causing hiccups in our projects.

    What’s your approach or solution to the “no one reads anything” phenomenon?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Try and politely ask if they have a preferred way of updates. One of my collaborators has over 1000 unread emails, he does not read them. But he likes shared google docs, we have a spreadsheet with the status of stuff just for him. He can check it regularly at his leisure, it’s bookmarked for him. I like that the sheet tracks who views it so I know if he’s up to date or not too.

    2. BellyButton*

      It is so frustrating! I reference what parts of the document they need to read in the agenda for an upcoming meeting. I feel like a friggin middle school teacher doing it, but it helped.
      “In this meeting we will be making decisions on XYZ, please be familiar with section 1 on page 23 and be ready to discuss.”

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        I have to do this same thing as well, and it’s especially irritating because my written documentation is usually no more than two pages long and they have lots of visuals! People at my company are just lazy and went their hands held throughout every step of the process, which, if we had the time? Wouldn’t be so bad. But we don’t. I have a million projects, plus a whole team now, to manage, so this learned helplessness act many of my colleagues undertake is wearing very thin.

    3. Nicki Name*

      I think the first step is to define the problem better. Are people aware of the materials? Does the tool which is used to access the materials work for them? Are they able to access the materials, but having trouble finding the specific document or section that’s relevant to the question? Are the materials occasionally updated and no one gets alerted about the updates? Or is it more of a procedural thing, where it hasn’t been clearly communicated that they need to read these things as part of doing their jobs so they don’t trip you up?

    4. Toasty*

      If the teams you need to communicate to have their own team meetings, ask to join for the first 10 minutes. Then take a few minutes to give them a high-level overview, show them where to find the written materials, and provide an opportunity for them to aka questions.

    5. MacGillicuddy*

      Of course I’m saying this without having seen your written materials, but I suggest taking a critical look at the materials you’re providing for people to get this information.

      What are the materials like? Are they all easily digested? Concise? Scannable? (That is, divided into logical sections, each with a summary statement, with bullets for each detail).

      I once worked at a company where the product managers wrote the functional specs. The specs were many pages of wordy prose, paragraph after paragraph. They were like reading a novel.

      The engineers complained that they didn’t know what the product’s feature requirements were. The product managers’ response was always “all requirements are in the spec”. They never realized it was unreasonable to expect the engineers to read multiple pages of prose, analyze it, and then make their own list of requirements from what they read. A good piece of technical writing does that work for the reader.

  40. Fluffy Fish*

    A large part of my job involves dealing with, lets call it, and emergency use software. I am the only person in the whole place that specializes in the and I am considered an expert – I’ve been asked to present at user groups and such.

    I am dealing with an individual from a different department to get them spun up using this software. This person seems to think they are an expert after poking around and reading some help files – to the extent that literally EVERY interactions has basically become them asking me something, me responding and them in turn questioning/trying to steer the process while simultaneously acting like this is all very minor (its not, it’s a big deal).

    SO. My boss has already been briefed and we settled on me basically asking for a meeting ccing boss. Dude has pushed back on that now – in fact he left off my boss in his reply.

    It’s at the point my boss probably needs to tell him to cut his crap and that I decide how this is going to go. But part of me really also wants to directly address with this guy that he has effectively pushed back on everything I have said in every interaction. Tips/ideas on how to do so firmly and professionally because as much as I just want to be like “dude your being an a-hole”, that’s admittedly not the way to go about it.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      “I appreciate your questions but we need to get through this training and I do not have the time to explain the reasoning behind every step. Boss has asked me to train you on how I do this. I need you to follow along right now. (If we have time at the end I can try and address them or you can email them later.) “

    2. Prospect Gone Bad*

      What is he using the software? Who is he giving bad advice to and talking to the software about? Those are big holes in your story that we’d need to answer.

      1. Fluffy Fish*

        I don’t understand what your asking? I didn’t say anything about him giving bad advice or him talking to anyone. This is strictly about his interactions with me. The details of what the software is used for isn’t important. Its a program I manage full stop. This isn’t my first rodeo – I have set up and trained many people to do what I’m trying to do for him.

        I manage the software. I grant people access to use it. On no planet does reading some help files and playing around within the limits of the role that I gave him make him an expert. There are things we need to discuss and that I need to train him on. He is being resistant and fighting me during every interaction. A good analogy would be I’m driving the bus and he keeps yanking the wheel because he thinks he’s going to drive the bus.

        My question is how to professionally address that he is fighting me every step of the way on something he knows nothing about and is literally my job.

        1. Prospect Gone Bad*

          Oh….so why is him talking about it with you a problem? I thought he was causing problems in the organization at large. Sounds like he’s only hurting himself? What damage does it cause if you neither pushback but also don’t help much? And can someone else do the work he’s doing, if he’s a disaster to work with? And does he make mistakes in the system? If he does, that would be good ammo to send his manager.

          1. Fluffyfish*

            Hes not talking. He’s arguing. Everything I say. Im sorry but it’s feels very strange that you are trying to stick up for someone Im telling you is being a jerk. Im telling you its a problem. Im asking for ways to professionally and directly address it. I’m not asking for people to convince me its not an issue like you seem intent on doing. Honestly, the exchange feels like a diet version of what Im dealing with. I said hes trying to take over the process and you are reducing that to him “talking about it”. The believe people rule of this blog applies here as well.

            It hurts me because its disrespectful not to mention I do have other things to do than be at his beck and call. It hurts me because if its not done right there will be issues. It hurts me because if its not done right, actual humans could be at risk in a way that if done properly could be avoided.

            And yes, if he doesn’t do what I ask him to do it is going to cause problems for his organization and eventually us.

            I’m sure someone else could be assigned to do this but I’m not his boss. Hence where I stated he’s from a different department.

            I appreciate you taking time to engage, but unless you would like to answer the question I posed, you aren’t really being helpful.

            1. Juneybug*

              At first I thought the guy from your office was Prospect Gone Bad in the comments. As in “OMG, he found out you use a forum for advice and support and he is here defending himself!” “Why would he continue the argument here instead of discussing it rationally at work?!”
              But I guess I was wrong (or was I?).

              1. Fluffy Fish*

                hahahaha it kind of feels that way doesn’t it? I had the same thought.

                Or at least someone who identifies with the guy I’m dealing with and just doesn’t see why the behavior is a problem – which if it is the case, all I can say is they should probably take a step back and re-evaluate their interactions with their colleagues.

        2. fhqwhgads*

          This sounds like something his boss should address. It’s not that you can’t try to directly, but dude seems to not respect your authority on the subject already, so it’d be more effective if it came from someone else to tell him to, essentially, shut up and listen to you.

          1. The Real Fran Fine*

            That part. I worked with a guy like this (thankfully, he’s leaving our company in a week or so – yay!), and the only time he stopped was when someone above him saw how he was acting and told him he would be doing exactly what I told him to do, lol.

          2. Fluffy Fish*

            Ugh I know this logically but it makes me so MAD.

            Thanks for this though. It’s helpful knowing others recognize this kind of behavior and that as much as I want to snap him out of it, its just a waste of my time and energy.

    3. Books and Cooks*

      Next time he offers his “suggestion,” look at him quietly for a moment, and say, “And what do you believe doing that will accomplish?” (Or “Why do you suggest we do it that way?”)

      When he says, “It’ll be faster,” or “It’ll be more accurate,” or whatever, you say, “No, sorry, it won’t be. The way we need to do it is the way I’m explaining it to you. It’s designed to be used this way.”

      When he acts like it’s not a big deal, you say, “No, this is actually a big deal. Getting this wrong means X, Y, and Z will be wrong. This is very important, and that’s why it’s so important that it be done this particular way.”

      I totally understand your wanting to push back (that’s why I’m suggesting the longish pause, which should be a touch impatient or surprised, not like you’re considering what he’s said). And I’m not defending the guy, but some people actually do learn that way, or think that their pushback is “exploring all solutions” or trying to understand fully–in other words, they don’t understand how they’re coming off–and (unless I’ve misunderstood) you are actually trying to teach him. Which could be another way to discuss this: “I’ve noticed that you often ask questions and then dismiss or argue against my answers. Can you maybe give me some insight into this?” or “Do you feel I’m giving you incorrect answers?” and see what he says. Because from there you can get into the, “I have years of experience with this software, and have conducted presentations and trainings as an expert for the software company itself. I understand that it can seem very simple–it’s designed to appear that way!–but it actually is not as simple as it seems, and I really need you to focus on the information I am giving you. Later, perhaps, we can look at some of your suggestions and ideas, and see if any of them are possible or would actually work. But for now we need to concentrate on you learning X and Y. I can assure you that not only do I have years of experience, but the software itself was developed by even more experts who have already thought of most of your suggestions and questions, and they decided this way, the way I am showing you, is the best way to handle it. Do you have any questions about what I have just said? Good. Let’s move on. Today we’re going to look at how we enter data for the Kimball Calculation,” or whatever.

      It sounds very annoying! Good luck with however you decide to handle it!

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        From what Fluffy Fish wrote, this sounds like “give an inch, he’ll take a mile” type of a coworker, so I recommend starting with your last script, to set the stage. It sounds like Fluffy Fish’s job is to get this coworker trained on the system, not to open the system to suggestions and changes.

      2. Fluffy Fish*

        Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

        The whole “how people learn” is so true and so important. Initially I gave him the benefit of the doubt along those lines. Or that he was just excited to get it done.

        But at this point it’s pretty clear he just thinks he’s above it/me. I’ve worked with what appears to be his type before and that individual basically didn’t think I was important enough to listen to. It’s feeling very very similar. And in that instance my boss at the time did have to step in and say I was the lead and if it didn’t come out of my mouth it didn’t exist.

        I just hate feeling like my boss has to fight my battles and solve my problems.

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          Oh and the latter script is really helpful, THANKS! While I do think my boss is going to have to step in, a lot of that language I think I can work into talking about it.

    4. Chauncy Gardener*

      Your boss needs to step in and tell him to cut the crap RIGHT NOW. And if your boss isn’t his boss, your boss needs to go to his boss and tell them what’s going. This is extremely unprofessional and frankly, should be hurting this guy’s career.
      Cc your boss on every.single.communication you have with this guy. Make this your boss’s problem. That is what your boss is there for. Pull yourself out of the transaction as much as possible, except as the subject matter expert.
      Good luck. This guy sounds like a total DB.

      1. Fluffy Fish*

        Thank you for the gut check that this is really out of my hand to address.

        And he is a total db. I found out after I posted that he recently came to a large meeting that involved staff from various departments after knowingly being exposed to two people with covid (his inlaws and they just spent a week together on a cruise). He wore a mask but didn’t disclose to anyone and at lunch break was sitting around eating and talking with everyone.

        He did test positive for covid a few days later. There was a virtual option – he had no need to be there in person. And he apparently refused to give one of his employees (who has an immune-compromised wife and tries to avoid large gatherings) the virtual log-in.

        So yeah. Learning about that incident pretty well solidified that he’s enamored with his own sense of importance.

        Boss it is :)

        1. Juneybug*

          Oh wow, this guy is horrible!
          I think Books and Cooks’ excellent advice is spot on. I would suggest trying that convo first, then next time it happens, look him dead in the eye and say we have already talked about this, and move on with the training without giving him any space to reply /agrue/defend himself.
          Hopefully this will get him to stop pushing his “suggestions” on you.
          Good luck!

  41. kelche*

    I’ve been with my current company for 1 year. Recently my previous company reached out to me and made me a good offer to come back. My new company wants to counter offer. Both companies have a lot of positives and some negatives. Both are willing to work with me to make me happier in my position. I’m so torn on which way to go. It’s not strictly about who offers the most money. Any suggestions on how to decide between the two?

    1. CharlieBrown*

      Flip a coin. Heads=old job, tails=new job.

      As the coin is in the air, which one are you hoping for? Heads or tails?

      1. Gumby*

        Yup, when I have two seemingly equally good options this is what I do.

        True story: I decided on a college by pulling a name out of a container. Pro and con lists weren’t going to get me any further; I had already eliminated one school that way. When I pulled the tiny paper that said ‘School A’ I felt a little relieved and happy so it was the right choice though obviously I would have gone to School B if I had been disappointed in the outcome. In retrospect, I think I wanted to go to School A but it was the option that had the best reputation so I was probably holding back out of a sense of unnecessary modesty.

        I have also done coin flips/drawing from a hat with lower stakes decisions where I didn’t feel any particular way and in those cases going with the coin flip breaks the paralysis by analysis and allows me to move on.

    3. WoodswomanWrites*

      I was in a comparable position where I was recruited and my current employer matched the salary and asked me to stay. What worked for me was visualizing arriving at work, from walking up to the building to seeing my co-workers to starting my computer at my workspace.

      Doing that, I discovered that I didn’t want the new job. My visualization made me realize that I wanted to stay at what was then my current job. I was happy there, and the issue was solely financial. When they matched the salary, I ended up staying for two more years. I still have a great relationship with the organization which collaborates with the one I work for now.

  42. A reader*

    A few weeks ago, I found out I have cancer along the left side of my cheek. Specifically, Squamos Cell Carcinoma. It’s still very early, and I don’t know the extent of how severe the cancer may or may not be.

    At this time, it doesn’t affect my ability to do my job. (I do clerical support work.) I’ll have to take time off for doctor visits, but due to a pre-existing condition unrelated to the cancer I’ve been taking time off for doctor’s appointments on a regular basis for quite some time.

    I’m wondering if, how, and when I should tell them at work. (It would just be my immediate supervisor and his boss; I don’t really know any of my co-workers that well, I basically keep to myself.) I have a civil service job in the state court system, in case that matters.

    In and of itself, I don’t have a problem with letting my bosses know, but I’m wondering if there’s anything I should be concerned about, aware of, etc.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      First, I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

      The biggest thing is that people sometimes treat you differently when they get this kind of news. In fact that probably happens more often than not. If I were in your situation I would find that annoying, but your mileage may vary and some people do handle this better than others.

      If you’re going to be taking more sick time than normal, if you’re going to have visible effects (like if you’re going to be out and come back with facial scarring after surgery), if you feel off balance at all emotionally and might need a little extra grace, those are all good reasons to share the situation. Otherwise I think it’s optional and depends on your relationship with your supervisors. I would tell mine at this job, but at other jobs in the past I might have said something like “dealing with a medical condition”.

    2. Bagpuss*

      I’m sorry to hear tyou are dealing with this.

      One thing to bear in mind is that you can’t un-tell people, but you can always tell them, or give them more information, later, so don’t feelyou need to rush it or to do anything right away.

      I’d base it on what you need.

      e.g. – if you need more time off, if you may need flexbility (for instance if you find that any treatments or medication affect things like your sleep pattern or energy levels and it would be helpful to be able to start alter / take more / longer breaks etc)

      If you need them to rdeal with other staff members – for instance if you have visible symptoms or effects of treatment, talkingto your boss so they can head off questions from other co-workers might be helpful – equally, I am surethat it is a stressful situation – if you make your boss aware of what’s happening they can factor that inif there are any issues (e.g. if you make a mistake, are less efficient or less even temepered than usual)

      Naother may be if you need any other accommodations – for instance if you have lowered immunity so want to ask people to be vigilent about masks / hand washing / non-covid illnesses around you .

    3. Irish Teacher*

      When I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, I went in to work the next day, ran into our principal in the foyer (she was usually there early in the morning to ensure students entered the building appropriately, make note of any regular latecomers, etc) and just asked “can I speak to you in private, please?”

      I had been thinking of what to say on my way to work and explicitly decided to avoid beginning with “I got the results of the scan I needed time off for last week,” because I thought a woman in her thirties asking to speak to the boss after a scan…might well make the boss assume congratulations were in order! So I said “I’ve just had some bad news” and told her how much I knew then, that I had been diagnosed with thyroid cancer and would need some weeks off for an operation but I wasn’t sure exactly when. She asked if I wanted her to tell my head of department or if I would prefer to do it myself and I said I’d do it myself as the head of department and I were pretty friendly and I thought she would prefer to hear it directly from me.

      I told the rest of the staff I was having my thyroid removed. Found out a few months back that one of them had thought for all that time that my thyroid was overactive and that that was why it had been removed, which I guess was a reasonable assumption.

      Oh, there was one exception to this – my head of department was very close friends with another member of staff, so I told her, because I kind of assumed the head of department might do so and didn’t want to leave her in the awkward position of not knowing whether or not she had to pretend she didn’t know. I had hinted to the head of department that it was OK to tell her.

      It’s worth being clear if you don’t need any accommodations at the moment. I mean directly saying, “at the moment, it is not causing any difficulties that will affect my ability to do my job,” just so they don’t worry that they are overworking you or anything. My head of department regularly asked if I needed accommodations, along the lines of “are you OK to do yard duty?”

      My feeling with cancer was that my principal and head of department needed to have the full picture as there was the (very small, but then the chance of cancer was small too) chance of spread meaning more treatment and even with everything going OK (which it did), I do have a couple of appointments each year – about three a year now (and for the next year, I have had one changed to the Easter holidays, so it’s two half-days in the year, which isn’t a big deal).

      Best of luck with your treatment.

  43. Long winded and fed up*

    My manager is often very impatient with me. I know he’s very busy, but he has started interrupting me when I’m trying to give him an update so as to speed me along. I don’t think I’m necessarily long-winded, but sometimes perhaps I tell too many details, more than he apparently needs, although I don’t necessarily know that until I start speaking. We were updating another manager in our department on something and when I was speaking my manager did it again, sort of quickly summarizing what I was trying to say so I would move on with the rest of the explanation. I find it degrading when it’s just the two of us, but it was especially embarrassing to me when we were in front of the other manager.

    Is it worth saying anything to him and what could I possibly say besides please stop interrupting me when I’m speaking. I am job hunting and just have been biting my tongue because I don’t want to create more friction if I’m going to have to be working here for a lot longer. I can’t imagine that if I say anything to him about this it will go well, but I just thought I’d ask for some opinions.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      He’s being rude. But, assuming it really is about him being “very busy,” if your manager is so busy that he can’t listen to you giving updates, can you suggest relaying updates in writing?

      1. Long winded and fed up*

        Unfortunately, no. The funny thing is if I send him an email he immediately calls me to ask what is going on, essentially what the email is about. It’s like he doesn’t want to take the time to read my email but then he also doesn’t want to take the time to listen to my full explanation. I tried to be concise, truly, but I hate to just start at the end and then have him ask me a million questions on how I got there. Although, he typically interrupts me to ask me a million questions anyway even though I’m in the process of telling him. I just can’t win it seems.

        1. Lucy*

          Could you try giving him a one sentence summary and let him ask questions? If he’s going to interrupt to ask questions anyway, you might as well let him lead the conversation. It wouldn’t be my preferred way to communicate an update, but it might make it less easier to have these conversations with him.

          1. Angstrom*

            Or something like “You have questions about the Llama report?” and then wait.

            You could be open about the the problem. “It seems that when you ask me for an update we both end up getting frustrated. You tell me I’m not getting to the point and start asking a lot of questions. I have a hard time finishing my answers when you interrupt me. How do you want to handle this? Would you prefer that I not give a report and just answer your questions? The way we’re doing it isn’t working for either of us.”

      2. Prospect Gone Bad*

        Sorry….how do you know they are rude? You weren’t there and the comment doesn’t give enough info. I can think of three employees and coworkers off the top of my head that ramble so much that if I didn’t interrupt, every call that should be 2 min would take and sometimes does take 30. People who ramble never think they do and also think everything they’re saying is so interesting and relevant.

        One thing I’ve noticed from more junior level employees is they go on and on about stuff that is obvious, but they may not know is obvious. Think “I took his blood pressure because that’s just what you do when someone comes in, as a precaution, and in times in the past it has unexpectedly been high in people that seemed fine, so I wanted to be sure, you know” instead of “his BP was fine.”

        So my advice is, view your presentations and such not as monologues but info gather sessions. If someone else wants to cut you off and grill you to get the info, and that’s the way they gather info and retain it, go with it. Some people learn this way. It’s not some big hill to die on

        1. Long winded and fed up*

          I’m not a junior employee and we have worked together for nearly 10 years. I know what a rambler is because our admin is like that. It’s for that reason I especially try to be to the point when we’re talking. I have literally sent him a one sentence email and he would immediately call me and ask me what the email is about, like he hasn’t even finished reading it before he’s calling me. And I don’t mean a 4-in thick one sentence email, I mean two lines. Anyway, in conversation, it is a bit jarring but I have tried to roll with it when he interrupts me. However, he does it nearly every single conversation we have anymore and he did it in front of another manager which was extremely embarrassing. Having my manager be extremely rude to me in front of other people is getting pretty near a hill to die on. I’ve been job searching for a number of reasons, and honestly dealing with him is one of them. You might just be tougher than me, but I like to be treated respectfully at work. I said in a comment down below that this is a recent development with him and I think that he and I just maybe have worked together for too long and are having a personality class. I wondered if I brought it to his attention he would realize and try to dial it back, but I’m not sure it’s worth doing as it may make things worse.

          2. Prospect Gone Bad*

            If this is the way it is, my advice is to add long pauses whenever he interrupts you. Many people get flustered when interrupted and lose their train of thought, so this is not unreasonable. Give him 5-10 seconds to chill or keep asking and repeating the question and then look like a jerk. It sounds passive aggressive when I write it out but trust me it is not.- In fact it can make you look polite, becuase you’re giving him a chance to keep talking.

          3. Lucy*

            Even if you were longwinded, which it sounds like you’re making efforts to not be, he’s being rude to you. There are better ways to handle a longwinded employee. He sounds like a jerk. As for whether or not you should talk to him about it, jerks like him are likely to take it poorly. It’s probably safer to keep your head down, deal with him as best you can and keep job searching, especially if you may need a reference from him in the future.

        2. Anonymous Educator*

          We have only the OP’s side of the story, so unless there are huge red flags indicating an unreliable narrator, we have go with what the OP says. Obviously, it’s not just a normal, fine interruption; otherwise the OP wouldn’t ask for help on this or say

          I find it degrading when it’s just the two of us, but it was especially embarrassing to me when we were in front of the other manager.

          And if an employee rambles too much, you can let them know ahead of time they get only X minutes to present their stuff and prepare ahead of time… or get it in writing instead of in person.

          1. Long winded and fed up*

            Thanks for this. It’s also not necessarily always an update, the more I think about it, it’s really almost every conversation. I’m pretty sure if he could do it to our admin, he would, but she would probably burst into tears. Maybe he thinks that he can get away with it with me because I try to roll with it, but it’s just getting harder and harder to deal with. If nothing else, writing here has allowed me to vent!

            1. Juneybug*

              Here’s the storyline I think happened and why it’s so draining –
              At the beginning – Oh, my boss is correct. I can be long winded/too detailed. I’ll work on it.
              While done the road – I have worked hard to be brief when updating my boss but he hasn’t recongized my efforts.
              Lately – I am the definition of brevity, do a great job, and yet my cranky, ungrateful boss still acts like the info I gave him is long winded. But then he will ask numerous questions so being brief is not helpful in the long run. Additionally, he is not putting forth the effort to even read my emails.

              I think over time, we realize that a situation is not working for us. And that is ok. But it’s frustrating! Can’t blame you at all for looking for a new job (cause your boss sucks and isn’t going to change).

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      He could be doing it better, but it seems like you need to be more succinct in your summaries. Remember, if he (or someone else) needs more detail they can always ask questions, but if you are providing detail upfront it can be way too much (and take too much time). I am a senior executive and I frequently need people to get to the point and will interrupt if I need them to move it along, so I’ve been in his shoes many times. I DO think it is worth talking to him, but the conversation should be “I notice you frequently interrupt me when I’m giving updates, is there something I should change when giving updates?” Hopefully that will trigger him to give you more specific direction.

      1. Long winded and fed up*

        I appreciate this input. I do try to be concise, but I’ll try to be more so. Part of the problem is as I tell him what I’m updating him on and then get into what I need him to know, he will interrupt me a series of rapid fire questions, which are all things that I am about to tell him if he would just let me get a word out. I’m starting to think we’ve just worked together too closely for too long and get on each other’s nerves. The pandemic was really rough. There’s only two of us that make up our department and I think it’s just a personality conflict at this point. Even when I have rehearsed in my head exactly what I want to say to get my point across to him, it’s never exactly how he wants to hear it. I will take your input into consideration and try to even be more concise if that’s possible. Thank you!

        1. Observer*

          Part of the problem is as I tell him what I’m updating him on and then get into what I need him to know, he will interrupt me a series of rapid fire questions, which are all things that I am about to tell him if he would just let me get a word out.

          So TELL him that. Tell him “I’m getting to that. It will be quicker if you just let me finish and then ask about anything I left out.”

          Leave out ANYTHING he doesn’t typically ask about, but always make sure to include the things you know he’s likely to ask about (it sounds like you are doing the latter already).

          When he interrupts put up your hand and say “I’m getting there.” And before your next conversation say something like “I know you’re REALLY busy and I’ll keep it short. But it’s going to take a lot less time if you let me get through what I have to say because I’ll answer all of your questions as part of the review and it will avoid the time spent on the questions and detours.”

    3. Nesprin*

      Can you try giving brief high level summaries instead of all details for a week and see if he still interrupts? If he doesn’t interrupt, you’re giving him too many details and he’s interrupting to focus on the things he needs. If he still interrupts, he’s being rude and not impatient.

    4. HR Exec Popping In*

      Has he given you feedback previously on being long-winded, over explaining or not reading the room? If he has then I would recommend working on it. If he has not, I would schedule a meeting with him and tell him, “I’ve noticed a few times that you have interrupted me or cut me off when I am explaining something. I would like to understand why this is happening. Do you have feedback on my communications? Or should I be doing something differently?”

      Now I am not saying you are doing anything wrong. But the point is to start a conversation with your manager and have them think about why this is happening. Chances are it is a bit of both of you. You being not direct enough and him being rude in the moment and failing to give you coaching and feedback on what his expectation is.

      1. Long winded and fed up*

        I have to assume it is a bit of both of us. I’m still working at the nerve to broach the subject with him. Thanks for your input though, I’ll think about it.

        1. HR Exec Popping In*

          What is the worst that can happen? Best case scenario you get him to understand how he is coming across and how it makes you feel. Worst case (which is not bad) is that he gives you some feedback that you can work on. Good luck!

    5. Anon for This*

      I have a couple of otherwise fabulous employees who do not understand how to get to the point – ask them for a status and they start with background. The more senior the person the less time they have, and likely the less they need background. Giving short, to-the-point status reports or updates is an important skill to have, and I am working with them on it.

      If your boss is summarizing what you were trying to say, it sounds like you have the same issue as my employees. If you know you are going to be asked for updates, think of two, maybe three brief points to relay the current status. Deliver the brief points. Period. If they want more info or background, they will ask for it, and you can give a more fulsome explanation.

      FWIW I agree with you that your boss didn’t handle it in the best way, but I’d recommend against raising it with him. It won’t help and as you note could make things worse. You can’t change your boss – but you can work on improving your delivery. And it is a skill that will stand you in good stead as you move up the ladder.

    6. WantonSeedStitch*

      I wouldn’t say anything about the interruptions (they’re rude even if you go into too much detail), but next time he talks to you, I might reply with a high-level summary of what you want to say to him, and wait for him to draw out details that he feels he needs.

    7. Business Librarian*

      Would it help to just let him ask questions? I think that firing questions at your head when you would have normally reported exactly what he’s asking if he only let you speak is extremely hard to bear but it seems like he’s going to do that regardless of what you do or say. While you’re looking for a new job, could you TELL him that you’ve observed his preferred communication style is to ask questions so you’re going to just give him the topic area and let him ask. If he seems impatient with that, first remember that you’re looking for a new job, and then remember that he’s already acting like an impatient jerk.

      I think he’s gotten it into his head that you give more detail than necessary and none of the changes you’ve made are moving that opinion. I think the job hunt is a great idea.

  44. HIPAA-Potamus*

    How do you deal with burnout from bad PTO policies or those with slow accrual if taking unpaid is not an option?

    2. MissGirl*

      Yep, I found another job. In the meantime, I tracked my accrual with an Excel sheet to plan vacations for when I would have enough time.

    3. HR Exec Popping In*

      If you need more time off, you should look for a job with more time off. If you have a chronic illness and need time away then explore FMLA options.

  45. BlueDijon*

    I went from a high-burn-out culture, overworked, once we know your capacity we know how to fill it so you’re busy every second industry to one where I seem to be meeting and exceeding expectations in less time than folks seem to expect. I now get to make the choice to fill to capacity or not – I don’t want to be bored (which I will if I do bare minimum, mad respect to those who do that though), but don’t want to fall back into bad habits. I want to get into the practice of being thoughtful and intentional about my time, rather than just taking on more and more work as a knee-jerk reaction, given how important downtime and subconscious processing are to us humans.

    Any folks with similar experiences who found particular patterns, tactics, or tools useful to keep yourself from falling into the same unhealthy workload patterns you’re used to?

    1. Specialized Skillets*

      Schedule downtime in your calendar! Industry research (reading AAM ;) ), watching Excel tips & tricks videos, project planning, etc. Also be very intentional about not doing work outside your work hours.

    2. hi hello*

      I’ve been filling my extra time with reading — industry publications, news related to my field, etc. This is a semi-new field for me, so I justify it by telling myself that it’s my “continuing education.” I put that reading into my schedule for the day, so that it seems like a part of my job and not just a thing to fill my time. That way, my schedule looks full to me (so I feel like I’m getting things done) but I’m not over extending myself and my time. After my last job, I was officially DONE with being overworked, so now I’m very careful not to work too far beyond my job requirements. That’s what’s been working for me!

    3. kiki*

      Block off time in your calendar for the kinds of work and tasks that often get pushed to the sidelines, like reading industry-specific publications, learning, organizing, improving processes, etc. Also block off time for things that help you process, like taking a full lunch break or taking an afternoon pick-me-up walk to mull things over.

  46. Whimsy*

    I’m planning to volunteer with a non-profit partially to get experience in data analysis. They gave me a non-disclosure agreement to sign that is basically about not releasing confidential information. I’ve volunteered at similar places doing other things and never been asked to sign anything like this before (just other things like training and a background check if I was volunteering with kids). Is this pretty normal or a yellow flag? The NDA talks about not revealing trade secrets, strategies, and a lot more. My experience in the past was that non-profits I volunteered for we’re happy to share this kind of info with others doing the same work so that the community, country, world would benefit. The NDA does also mention client lists, etc, so maybe it’s supposed to be more about protecting clients’ personal information, but it’s a generic NDA they found that was maybe originally created for for-profit businesses?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I wonder if they are cutting corners around having a lawyer draft an NDA re:costs and are specifically worried about client information. I find it…odd? NDA’s are rarely enforceable, especially if they just took one off a shelf, so I wouldn’t stress out over it *personally* but I think your side eye is warranted and you’d be well within your rights to ask more questions.

    2. Nancy*

      What type of information are your dealing with? I have signed many NDAs because I work with patient databases. If you will have access to any kind of personal information, then yes, it is pretty common to sign one.

    3. Ama*

      Are they actually referring to it as an NDA? Because it isn’t that uncommon in nonprofits to ask volunteers to sign confidentiality agreements especially if you may encounter donor information in the course of your work — this is not the same as an NDA, it’s basically just an acknowledgement that you will keep any information confidential and not use it for personal purposes (this is particularly common in nonprofits that have high-dollar and/or famous donors whose private contact info is in their databases; we use it in my work with our volunteer grant reviewers since they are often seeing unpublished scientific data).

      In most cases it isn’t intended to be legally actionable against the volunteer — it’s intended to protect the nonprofit. Say a volunteer takes a donor’s info out of the nonprofits’ database and contacts them to pitch their own personal project or something — if the donor complains to the nonprofit, the nonprofit can demonstrate through the signed confidentiality agreement that the volunteer knew full well that they were not supposed to do this and acted in violation of the nonprofits’ policies.

      It kind of sounds like this nonprofit maybe is conflating an NDA with a confidentiality policy.

    5. Remember Neopets?*

      I’ve worked at a handful of non-profits in fundraising and I’ve always signed/asked others with access to the fundraising databases to sign a confidentiality agreement and an integrity/donor rights agreement. I would consider it a red flag for the organization if they didn’t have one in place, especially for volunteers.

      It sounds like someone tried to put this in place, but maybe hadn’t encountered one before so they used a generic NDA from the internet. (Would recommend a structure that lined up more with a database administration integrity agreement, also look into PCI compliance…)

      There are also usually separate rules in place for how the NP will use acquired data and will usually reserve the right to trade or share specific information with other NP organizations (that the donor can opt out of, obviously).

    6. Policy Wonk*

      This sounds standard to me if you will have access to client or donor files. I agree that they are probably are using a generic text they got from a business supply store or on-line, so it includes a lot of things that really don’t apply.

    7. 123Anonyphant*

      I find it odd because NDAs are contractual agreements in most jurisdictions, so you have to gain some benefit by signing one for it to be enforceable. (And at least in my jurisdiction an “opportunity to volunteer” wouldn’t count.)

      It sounds like they have some information they don’t want you to disclose — perhaps even for a good reason, like to protect personal data about a vulnerable population — and they’re bungling the execution.

      1. Glomarization, Esq.*

        Access to the information itself (donor names and contact information, financial information, internal procedures, proprietary information, etc.) is the consideration received by the volunteer. A lot of NDA and confidentiality agreements also include training, experience, and networking opportunities as a recital of the valuable consideration they’re receiving. Maintaining confidentiality and not disclosing that information is the consideration received by the organization. So long as the written agreement otherwise meets the jurisdiction’s formalities and there’s no other issue, an NDA or confidentiality agreement can totally be enforceable as against a volunteer.

    8. Observer*

      My experience in the past was that non-profits I volunteered for we’re happy to share this kind of info with others doing the same work so that the community, country, world would benefit.

      It depends on the non-profit, the field and the rules and regulations at play. It’s totally not a red flag that they have something like this in play.

      Even organizations that are happy to share information may have specific things that they don’t / can’t share for one reason or another.

      To me the real red flag is the organizations that didn’t even ask you to sign anything about the confidentiality of client information. Even when there is not a legal requirement (which often actually does exist), there is pretty much always an ethical obligation and I am absolutely going to judge any organization that doesn’t make sure that everyone, including volunteers, is on board with that.

  47. Interested in a Change*

    Any tips for making a resume with a bunch of short jobs (many around 3 months) sound compelling? I am early career and have made a drastic leap from one industry to another. But while I was working in the former industry (creative), I had a lot of subsistence/part-time jobs. I’ve left a lot of stuff out or bundled it together, but there’s not much more I can cut without leaving giant gaps on my resume, and there’s not a ton I can think of in terms of AAM’s “results-oriented” resume style. I didn’t start a revolution during my six months working at the box office of XY community center or four months being the weekend receptionist in an office that was mainly open on weekdays… Plus during the actually relevant internships I had a lot of tasks, but not a lot of long-term projects. Any advice/help would be welcome!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Are they all the same/similar fields? You could try something like giving it a category then listing the companies then your normal outcome statements under. It’s okay if some jobs overlap too, a lot of part time work is on multiple jobs. I’d highlight the relevant stuff up top, then maybe have a second section below for the subsistence stuff. (It’s also okay to leave jobs off, I don’t list past nanny jobs on my office jobs resume, they mainly overlapped other work anyway).

      Writer (2020-2022)
      -Magazine A, Blog B, State Office C
      -achievement 1
      -achievement 2

      Retail (2019-2021)
      -company lists
      -normal resume bullets

    2. Mid*

      I think this is where a cover letter will be helpful, because you can use it to draw a thread connecting the skills you gained from each position into a more cohesive narrative. I know that sounds like a bit of BS, but I have a similar background (lots of retail/food service/short term jobs and very little in my industry for a while.)

      I usually included something like this in a cover letter (details changed, this is not my actual work experience.)

      “Throughout my time working in food service, I honed my skills in customer service, not just in responding to requests but learning how to anticipate needs, and how to pace work around slow times, delivery schedules, and dinner rushes. These skills have served me well as I transitioned to freelance graphic design, as I balanced the ebbs and flow that come with client facing designing, learning how to anticipate busy periods and pace my work around those times.”

      Results centered resumes don’t have to be all about concrete deliverables, but can be about the skills you gained as well.

  48. New to Rejection*

    Need help with a script for turning down a job offer while keeping a positive networking connection. I’m worried about the company feeling misled as I was very enthusiastic during the first conversation with the owner. Once I went through the overall interview process, I just don’t feel excited about it anymore – I actually felt disappointed that I did well in the final interview and it sounds like the offer being sent over this afternoon will meet my on-paper requirements of salary, benefits, professional development, etc.

    It’s a very small place (<10 people) with no HR / recruiter to be the buffer. Normally I would just say that the role doesn't feel like the right fit at this time, but I suspect they'll want to know why it isn't a fit. They are aware I don't have any other offers at the moment and my company is in financial trouble so I can't claim to want to stay at my current job since it'll be gone in a few months. I do want to keep it positive in case I decide to apply at this company in the future.

    1. Ellen*

      Can you try to figure out WHY you don’t feel excited about it anymore? Is it possible that it’s just, say, anxiety about change causing your lack of enthusiasm?

      If it meets your on-paper requirements and you like the people enough to want to keep a positive connection… AND your job is going to be gone in a few months… I can’t see any reason to turn it down, honestly. If you got a bad feeling about the company, that’s one thing; but if your enthusiasm just waned, it’s possible that’s just a normal reaction to the circumstances and doesn’t mean you should back out.

      1. New to Rejection*

        I’m in tech and pretty good at what I do, so I’m not worried about finding a job in the next few months. If I’ve lost all excitement and am apathetic on my first day, that sounds like a miserable way to start a job. I love what I do and not being excited about my work is when I realize its time to job hunt. There’s also a lot of unknowns on a company that tiny especially when they are starting to grow, which is why I think I could feel differently in a year.

        I think the change is idea vs reality. It sounded like a great product and I really clicked with the owner, but also the first conversation was all big picture stuff. Had the first conversation been with the hiring manager or team member, I probably would have passed and withdrawn from the process.

    2. Interested in a Change*

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with keeping it simple. It’s not the right fit at this time. Explanations will likely make everything more complicated/raise additional questions, especially if you’re putting them in writing. You appreciate the opportunity, but it’s not the right fit.

      Think of it this way—they’re also benefiting from not having an employee who’s unhappy or looking to leave immediately. You don’t owe them anything else.

      1. Interested in a Change*

        But also seconding the previous comment on knowing why it’s not right for you :)

    3. Juneybug*

      Could you say it’s not a good fit because you would like to work at a larger company where are more opportunities for advancement?

  49. Mimmy*

    Applying for two jobs in same department

    I’m eyeing two positions at a university that are in the same department and appear to be equal in rank (both listed as “Associate” under “experience level”, whatever that means lol). A career counselor suggested that I apply to both. I’m sure it’ll be the same hiring manager since it is a small office. I’ll probably have to submit two separate applications (yay applicant tracking systems!). Do I just treat these as two separate positions in my cover letters? If called for an interview, how do I convey why I applied for both?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Apply to both! Cover letter – “I’m really excited about the opportunity to work for department. From the listing, I think I would be a good fit to both the open turtle scratcher role as well as the elephant herding role. I’d love to interview with you and find out more about these roles.”

      1. Mimmy*

        If I have to submit two separate applications, is it okay to use the same cover letter for each?

        1. Specialized Skillets*

          I would explicitly state that you’re applying for both and then tailor the letter to each position. I’ve reviewed applications for multiple open positions and had a guy apply for all of them (despite these being very different, specialized, skilled jobs) and use the same cover letter. It made it seem like he had no idea what the jobs entailed and cast some doubt on his suitability for any of them.

  50. saradactyl*

    How big of a red flag is it/should it be if an interviewer reschedules the interview after no-showing for 15 minutes and then is 10 minutes late to the rescheduled interview?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Medium. Were they apologetic at all? How involved would this particular person be in your job? Have you gotten other vibes from this place about not respecting your time?

      I wouldn’t withdraw over it but I’d probably bring it up as a concern and ask some questions about culture.

      1. saradactyl*

        They were apologetic yesterday but not really today. It was really bizarre and I’m not sure what to make of it.

        Basically, after they called me yesterday to cancel, I called her back and we rescheduled. She suggested on the phone call that maybe we’d just reuse the Zoom link that had been originally scheduled. The meeting was scheduled originally for the end of the workday and she asked if we could do 9 am today, so the start of the workday. I agreed to all of this.

        I didn’t receive any other calls or emails to the contrary, so I logged onto the zoom today and yet again was alone. I waited for about 10 minutes and called her directly. When the interviewer answered, she sounded like she had been expecting me, which was what really confused me. I said something to the effect of “didn’t we say we’d meet in the Zoom?” and she sounded like she had in fact forgotten that, and said she’d need to go find a room.

        So I gave her a few more minutes and logged onto the zoom, and she had wet hair like she’d just gotten to work, and it was just quite weird. She said something about the recruiter not responding or not rescheduling the Zoom. I’m just really stumped. I thought the whole point of her mentioning we could just reuse the same Zoom was to avoid needing the recruiter. But then this morning, she’d acted like she’d forgotten that? And if she’d forgotten that and thought it would be over the phone…why didn’t she call me herself at the agreed time? I feel like I’m crazy. We started 10 minutes late and I don’t know if I did well at all because it was so weird.

        I’ve interviewed with this company before and it was fine. The recruiter in this interview process was timely and professional. I want to work at this company, but the hiring manager on this specific team gives me some pause.

        1. Ama*

          It’s hard to tell if it’s a red flag. It is possible there was a miscommunication with the recruiter (maybe she talked to them after she told you to reuse the Zoom and the recruiter said “oh that’s not a good idea, I’ll send you and candidate the new one” and then didn’t) it’s also possible if you are still in the first round of the interview process that she mixed you up with another candidate who she did tell to call you. It’s possible she had a terrible morning that threw her off her game. Or it’s possible that she’s just really disorganized.

          If you’re still interested in proceeding in the process, I’d just keep an eye out for future issues, and if you happen to get a chance to interview with someone who works with this hiring manager maybe you can ask a few questions about their work style and see if you can pick something up.

        2. Girasol*

          Seems like the hiring manager either A) is not a good time manager, B) had a personal emergency and is quite distracted by it, and/or C) is a bit inconsiderate, figuring that her time is more valuable than yours. I’m guessing that you might expect the department to be operating in somewhat of a state of confusion. That might be a pink flag. Is it worth taking that on in order to get your foot in the door with the company?

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      How good was their reasoning for missing? Were they polite about it? Also are they your maybe future boss or just someone in hiring, their tardiness might not have anything to do with your day to day

    3. BellyButton*

      I am pretty forgiving, they are likely interviewing someone just before and it runs long or had a meeting run over. As long as they are apologetic I don’t mind. We have all had things run long when we are in back to back meetings.

  51. calvin blick*

    Wondering if anyone has any advice here…kind of kicking these ideas around in my head. About six months ago I took another job with a generous pay bump and relocation bonus. There are definitely many good aspects to my job: it’s a large, stable organization where layoffs are unlikely, so far I haven’t been overburdened with work, boss is a decent guy, and there are some technical areas I don’t know much about that this job will help me with.

    However, I am probably still a little underpaid compared to have market (and I live in a high COL area where being underpaid has consequences), a lot of the people in my group seem to be overworked (so while I’m not overworked now I think it’s likely to happen at some point), my boss usually skips our weekly meetings so I don’t really have much in the way of relationships with anyone else in the organization, not really sure how my organization will handle inflation (in my experience large companies can be very stingy in this area). I also get the feeling my grandboss is kind of an asshole.

    So, is it worth considering other jobs after, say 9-12 months? Has anyone jumped from an okay job after a fairly short time and been happy with the new job? Or is better to stay with this one and see how it goes?

    1. CharlieBrown*

      I’m kind of in a similar position. I left a job after almost six years to take my current position, and I was largely motivated by getting out of a chaotic, highly disfunctional workplace.

      I like my new company, but the job simply isn’t for me. I’ve been here nine months, and my goal is to have a new job lined up by the time I hit the one year mark or shortly thereafter.

      When asked about it (and I know I will be) I’ll tell them the truth: I received great reviews, cranked out a lot of high-quality work for them, but in the end the job simply wasn’t for me. I have a list of very specific, tangible reasons (they said there would be a lot documentation work, turns out I haven’t done a bit, etc.). I like my company, and I like my team, and the working environment is MUCH better than my last job. But I don’t derive any satisfaction out of the job, and so I’m looking to move on. I don’t think I’m being flighty, as I’ve given it a year.

      So I don’t think it will be an issue if you focus on tangible things (the lack of direct communication with your supervisor) and not on the intangible things (grandboss may be an asshole). It’s one thing to just get out of training and then leave, but you’ve been there long enough to figure out that you’d rather be somewhere else.

      1. M.*

        Yes, this is my exact position at the moment. I’ve been in my new role for 8 months (although working with the company for 5 years). I’m willing to give the position a full year before I leave, but at the end of the day, I just don’t get any meaningful satisfaction out of it. I’m not looking to go out in a blaze of glory; at the end of the day, I just know that this isn’t it and that I’m ready for something different.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      How long were you at the job before this one? Job-hopping doesn’t mean you left a job after a short period of time. It means you have an established pattern of often leaving jobs after short periods of time.

  52. RussianInTexas*

    I need help! I can’t figure out what kind of a job I need to look for.
    Background: my degree is foreign, BA in the American equivalent. And 20 years old by now. I realistically have no energy or money to go back to school so that’s mute point.
    I’ve been working as a CSR for a manufacturer/wholesale for the last 5 years. I also been working as a bid/RFQ specialist – reading bids, analyzing, collecting paperwork, submitting RFQs, sometimes analyzing the proposed price based on the market conditions (not setting the price myself). Deal with all sides of the customer service – order processing, troubleshooting, helping with delivery issues if needed (although we have a logistics department, so this is for emergencies), dealing with contractual issues like defaults, price increases, etc. The company I work for is small, so technologically-wise is very behind. As a result we only use Quick Base for the CRM/SCM management, and a LOT of e-mails. I feel like I also lost about 80% of my Excel knowledge in the last few years. There is also a lot of very inadequate communication between the customer fronting department and the back office.
    Before this job, I worked in a data accumulation process for an oil industry-adjacent company. There was some CSR aspect to it as well.
    I do not want to work with external customers anymore. At least not in the direct way. I’ve had customers calling me drunk. Calling me names and yelling at me because somehow the supply-chain issues of the last two years are my fault. I don’t want to tell them that even though we (the company) bid on their contract, we don’t actually have the product, because my back office does not understand, still, how contracts work.
    I tried to pick up some database and coding experience, and it’s a no go for me. I can’t. My brain refuses.
    So what do I do? I really want to get out of here. And maybe get more than 10 vacation days (after 5 years!)

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      This sounds like a company problem, not a you problem.

      If you still like a version of this job, then I’d focus on job hunting for roughly the same thing you were doing, writing a heck of a good cover letter, and schmoozing with with your contacts about positions at THEIR companies. Just get yourself out there and when you get to the interviews, ask about how much external customer contact there is and how that goes. Maybe in other industries it won’t be so toxic too.

      1. Ama*

        I agree with this — I’d also note that you say your company is small and it sounds like you do a lot of different parts of the process because of it. Maybe look for bigger companies where the workload is divided up differently, a place where there’s one team that actually does “client support” and talks to the external customers and one team that handles contracts and pricing (if that’s work you’d prefer doing).

    2. The Real Fran Fine*

      Start applying for proposal writer jobs. Visit the APMP job board to see what’s out there or even just go on Glassdoor and Indeed. I still get a lot of alerts for those roles and I’m not even in proposals anymore. With your experience, I think you could make the leap into this field, especially if you target smaller companies.

  53. Ellen*

    I’m planning on buying a house in a different state from where my employer is located, and working remotely (most of the time; I would travel for meetings, etc.). Our lender has asked for proof that our employment and income won’t be negatively affected by moving out-of-state. I imagine this is a pretty recent development — has anyone had to deal with this kind of situation? What did the “proof” entail?

    1. Decidedly Me*

      I think they just want to see “Yes, Ellen will still have a job at salary here, even if they move to State B.” It’s not surprising they want to know given how some jobs can’t have people that work from another state or salary will change. Definitely something that’s become more common since COVID, though.

    2. DEJ*

      We’ve also heard stories on here about how people don’t realize that there are tax and other legal implications for having remote employees located in other states (especially since Covid), so maybe that is part of them wanting to confirm you will still be employed there even if you move to another state. You may want to double check with your lender to find out exactly what the concern is though so you can tailor your information.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      There’s been a lot of talk about this here, and why it isn’t always feasible to work remotely anywhere, typically to do with taxes and if your employer is set up to have employees in certain states. For starters does your employer know that you’re planning on moving to a different state and is that approved? If so, then I’d ask your lender what they need as proof – it might just be an official letter stating that you have approval to work in the different state, or maybe it’s something else, but they’ll be able to define what they need from you better than we can.

    4. HR Exec Popping In*

      Just ask your employer for a letter for the lender confirming your salary and that your move won’t change your status. Lenders often ask for this when someone is moving out of state and your HR dept that does employment confirmations will know what to write.

    5. Prospect Gone Bad*

      I didn’t know this was a thing…..how do you they even know this situation is happening?

      1. Roland*

        Do you mean how the lenders know? Employment information is very standard for your lender to get. It would be more surprising if they didn’t ask where you worked. And of course it’s not hard to then see the job is in Montana but the new property is in Kansas or whatever.

    6. Llellayena*

      Just don’t do what someone wrote about on AAM and forge your boss’s signature on the letter saying you’re allowed to work remote out of state…I just re-read that one today. Not sure I can find the link again though.

    7. Chauncy Gardener*

      Your HR person or PEO or whatever your company uses should be able to give you a standard letter that states your job is fully remote. I have used this effectively. On company lettterhead obviously:
      To Whom It May Concern,
      Ellen, employee of xyz company, is authorized to work permanently from home (maybe add the address) as are all employees of xyz company.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        Yes, and I second the posts above who mention that you should verify with your employer that the state you’re moving to is OK with them.

    8. Jazz*

      In my role I provide employment verifications for employees who are buying homes all the time. Usually there is a form involved that I complete and sign, other times there is also a phone call involved. Almost always the form or the phone conversation includes a question about whether that person’s job is currently secure. They are trying to find out if borrowers didn’t disclose that they are being laid off, retiring, are employed in a temporary or seasonal position, etc.

      So it’s simple – in addition to verifying your employment, salary, etc., they are going to ask your employer if your job is secure if you were to move to that other state, and if working remotely is a possibility for you. So if you have not had this approved yet by your employer, you need to get on that ASAP. If your manager has approved this, you will want to make sure they relay that info to HR or Accounting, or whoever handles employment verifications at your company.

    9. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Not that recent– I moved twice pre-pandemic and kept both of the jobs I had at each time. My office manager wrote a letter on letterhead saying, basically, that AvonLady would be moving to X and would continue to be employed by Y at Z salary. Signed by whatever higher-up needed to sign. It was pretty easy to get in small companies. I now work for a large corporation and I’m sure they have a form for a manager to sign.

  54. Things*

    I’ve run into an issue at work where I can’t really adequately explain something.

    I work in a university office that issues passes that give students free public transportation. These passes give students free rides on all non-express public transportation services. Public transportation services are numbered thusly:

    1-99: Local
    100-199: Express
    200-299: Rapid
    Colors: Rail

    Rapid buses are versions of local lines that make fewer stops and complete the route faster, express buses are special bus lines that only make one or two stops and are for direct long distance trips. Express buses cost twice as much as regular buses, which is why they aren’t covered under the free public transit passes. We try to explain that Express is the only thing that isn’t covered, but we have routinely had issues with students confusing Rapid and Express and thinking they can’t ride Rapids, even when we specifically say those routes are covered.

    A couple years ago, however, the agency got rid of a ton of Express routes. This wasn’t because of the Pandemic, it would have happened, anyway. Since then, there has been no Express service to anywhere near our university, or to anywhere students would really go, so we’ve been telling students that Express services don’t even come down here, anyway.

    Well, the public transit agency has a pretty bad maintenance backlog exacerbated by the Pandemic, supply shortages, and labor issues (they really need to pay more, but voters are wildly hostile to public transit employees getting paid anything above a pittance), so a ton of buses are broken. Local/Rapid and Express buses are actually different designs. Local/Rapid are red and have rear side doors, Express buses are blue with big Express lettering on the side and do not have rear side doors. With all of the broken red buses, and with there being a ton of blue buses laying around because of the massive reduction in Express service, the transit agency has started using Express buses for Local routes to make up shortages. Naturally, if an Express bus is on a Local route, it’s priced as a Local bus, and free for students. I get why this is happening, but now there’s a bunch of Express buses on the Local/Rapid routes around our university, and students think they cannot ride these buses. I can’t think of a way to explain that it doesn’t matter if it says it’s an Express bus on the side, it’s not an Express and students can still ride it for free. Students already get very confused by the Local/Rapid distinction, by how Rail works, and some other things, and a lot of these people have never ridden public transit at all before.

    Maybe this is just my Autism, but I’m at a loss as to what I can do to explain this to somebody very confused by everything public transit, often through a language barrier, and get the message out that just because a bus says Express doesn’t mean it is Express.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      This may not be viable, but could someone at your office reach out to the transit agency and ask them to put “Local” signs in the windows of non-local busses running local routes that go through the campus, since the visual signals (color and style of bus) are misleading?

      Alternately, post signs around campus, especially at the bus stops on campus, to the effect of “Reminder: (Transit Agency) is using Express busses to run Local and Rapid routes, please look at the route number/name rather than the style of bus! No Express routes serve (University) Campus!” It might help to have the reminder Right There at the bus stop.

    3. RagingADHD*

      This pass is good for these routes. If you are on this route, you can take any bus that shows up, no matter what the label on the bus says.

    4. BRR*

      “Occasionally a bus labeled express will be driving a local route. You want to look for X on the bus.”

    5. Koala dreams*

      I feel for you. It’s so confusing with buses changing like that, especially the different colours. I sometimes miss my bus when there’s a big advertisement for a special event instead of the normal bus colour. At least where I live the letters/numbers are (mostly) reliable. I don’t think you can erase the confusion entirely.

      How do people generally know which buses are which? Is the numbering reliable? Are the stops different? Do people ask the bus driver? Or is it just something people pick up with experience?

  55. Aggretsuko*

    I have a job interview Monday morning. Quick questions:

    (a) I know Allison says “wear a suit,” but it’s 95-100 degrees here daily. Is it okay to just like, wear a dress/blazer or something instead? I have to walk to the interview for about 20 minutes (parking issues) as well. It is a morning interview but it still won’t be any level of “cool.”
    (b) Do you still have to bring copies of your resume and references to job interviews? I note this is at a place where they have a minimum of 2-3 interview cycles and this is #1, so I’m not even sure if anyone cares about that stuff any more.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      A) Yes! And if you have to walk I would suggest carrying the blazer and not putting it on until you’re inside (bonus of covering any sweatstains you might produce)
      B) I usually do, and people usually like that I thought of it even if they don’t need it.

      1. Fluffy Fish*

        This.

        And consider giving yourself an extra 5-10 minutes, to cool down from your walk before even going inside. If you’re anything like me, anything beyond a 5 minute walk leaves my face sweaty and red. Even if its hot out, cooling down from the exertion, can help.

        1. BellyButton*

          Yes! I will scope out a coffee shop or something as close as possible and stop in for 15-20 minutes to cool off and refresh my makeup if I need to.

        2. Chaordic One*

          Or ask to use the restroom (if there’s one available and it is halfway decent) if you’re a few minutes early and splash some cold water on your face and touch up your makeup if you need to. (Usually, the less makeup the better.)

    2. OyHiOh*

      Yes! A dress plus blazer is a perfectly appropriate swap for suit. Don’t wear the blazer until you get to the building.

      On my most recent job search, I did not bring copies of my resume with me. I was asked over email for references after my second interview. I probably should have brought resume copies as a general rule, but I wouldn’t worry about references at this stage.

    3. HR Exec Popping In*

      Yes and yes. Carry your suit jacket while outside and always have copies of your resume. They are rarely needed but you don’t want to not have them if they are needed.

  56. Need recommendations*

    Anyone have recommendations on a great quality external USB video camera that works well with MacBook? Think podcast streaming and local events streaming (like a graduation or parade).

    Thank you!

  57. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

    After years of reading AAM and feeling glad that I’ve never really had much of a “team-building” exercise (we’ve have them, but it’s usually just us all going out to lunch and then going home early), and never being asked to take a Personality Test…ya’ll…next week we’re having a formal team-building day, and have been asked to take the free version of the MBTI in advance so we can discuss it. Hell. I took it and I think both my Eastern and Western Zodiac Signs are a better description of me than the ISTJ label I received.

    One of my favorite, totally wrong, descriptions of my personality type is that “I value ceremonies, rituals and celebrations” NOPE!…I’m not going to rage about them or anything…but I refuse to celebrate my birthday, I don’t decorate for holidays, I’m not a ceremony or ritual person at all.

    Anyone else want to poke fun at personality assessments they’ve taken? Oh, and my Star Wars character I’m most like is probably Boba Fett…’cause I’m here for the money.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      I can’t remember the exact things, but I had one where two traits that go hand in hand were at complete opposite ends of the spectrum for me.

    2. WantonSeedStitch*

      LOL…I’m an ENFP, basically your exact opposite, and I love ritual and ceremony and celebration.

    3. Anon For This*

      I was one point toward E, otherwise straight down the line in the middle. The facilitators had no idea what to do with me, or another employee who was pretty much the same, though one point toward I. It may the exercise rather… interesting.

    4. Girasol*

      A friend had a code key that defined those obscure letter labels in descriptive terms like Bully, Bathmat, Jerk, Wuss, etc. I wish I could remember them all. It was eerie how perfect the terms were.

      1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

        Reminds me of the Zodiac signs according to Adam Sandler. I can’t even remember the original source so I can’t link to something I feel confident about, here are a few that I could find…warning they are extremely unkind and profane.

        Aries ( Mar 23- April 22)
        You have a wild imagination & often think you are being followed by the FBI or CIA. You have minor influence on your friends and people resent you for flaunting your power. You lack confidence and are a general dip shit.

        Taurus (April 23-May 22)
        You are practical & persistent. You have a dogged determination and work like hell. Most people think you are stubborn and bull headed. You are nothing but a goddamned communist.

        Scorpio (Oct 23- Nov 22)
        You are the worst of the lot. You are shrewd in business and cannot be trusted. You shall achieve the pinnacle of success because of your total lack of ethics. You are the perfect son of a bitch. Most Scorpio’s are murdered.

    5. ThursdaysGeek*

      I’m so close to the middle on all of those that I can come up with completely different letter combinations when I take the test twice in a row: I can’t remember and answer the same question the same way twice, because either both answers fit, or neither answer fits.

    6. CTT*

      We did DISC assessments at a work retreat and the presenter was relating all the types to Office characters; since I can’t stand that show, I had fun coming up with the 30 Rock equivalents instead. And you know what? I AM a Jenna sun with Kenneth rising!

    7. Dark Macadamia*

      I took the super detailed fictional alignment one and my top character out of thousands of TV, movie, and literary options was Harry Crane from Mad Men :(

      A lot of my other high ranking results were like Pam from The Office, Ann from Parks and Rec… basically The Bland One, which probably isn’t wrong but isn’t a very fun result either! You can sort it by fandom and I think the most hurtful (but accurate) was Edith from Downton Abbey lol

  58. Decidedly Me*

    I have a really hard time focusing and have tried a gazillion different things to keep me on track, organized, etc. and most do not help me (don’t need ADHD reccs – I’m good there!). I found something that worked for me recently and wanted to share. I’ve been doing a modified Pomodoro technique (the regular intervals are too frequent for the work I need to do) – usually 1h 15m on, 15m off. After doing it for awhile, I stopped needing my timers quite so much, though when I find myself getting off task (like while doing this, lol), I immediately set my 15m timer to limit myself.

    Organization is still taking a bit of time!

    Wanted to share in case it helps someone else. Does anyone have a focus technique that works for them?

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I use 25 on and 10 off although it gets muddled when I’m in the groove either of work or distraction

      1. Sylvan*

        I use 20/10 a la unfuckyourhabitat.com. At work, I use the 10-minute break to do something productive but different from my current main task.

    2. Filosofickle*

      I’m not currently doing this and need to go back, but this used to work really well for me:
      I have problems with both lack of focus and over-focus, as well as time blindness. Every work hour on the :55 a chime goes off on my phone. (On the :55 because meetings tend to start on the hour.) That’s my prompt to pause and intentionally ask myself a few questions. They vary based on where I’m at that week but include: Have I had food/water? How could this be easier? Am I working on the right thing? What do I need to do next? That way I can’t “lose” more than an hour in the weeds or off in space. I start each hour redirected and centered. What was pretty cool was how I developed a conditioned response to the chime — when it went off I would instantly lift my head, take a deep breath, and drop my shoulders.

      A bit hard to find a timer app that is this nuanced enough to be set a chime on the 55 from 7:55-4:55 M-F plus a different chime at 2p everyday including weekends to remind me to move my body, but I did find one.

      If I’m really really struggling to focus then I set timers for 15 or 25 minutes, telling myself that I can do anything for 15 minutes. That at least gets me started.

    3. ESus4*

      One hour focused thinking (my work, finances, other sit-down desk tasks), 30 minutes moving around (housework, decluttering, gardening). I have daily “sitting” and “moving” lists.

  59. Jacqueline Daytona*

    Does anyone out there have suggestions or resources for managing in creative/media fields? I’m an editor at a monthly periodical. After years of being understaffed, we finally have an associate editor — hurray! He’s great and I really want him to succeed, but I’m a bit stuck. Our company doesn’t really provide any support for managers and we don’t have any kind of standard performance review process for me to follow.

    One thing I’m struggling with is setting goals and benchmarks for him. This isn’t a job where it’s desired or even really possible for someone to have increasing numerical goals. I don’t need him to write increasing numbers of articles — that’s not even possible at our publication! It’s more like, “write really well every month.”

    Does anyone have any experience with this? Our leadership is very “we’re not like those other corporations, we’re a COOL corporation ;-P” and it is really hard to get resources or examples about the nitty-gritty parts of managing creative work here.

    Thanks!

    1. BellyButton*

      You want to look more towards core competencies/behaviors as opposed to metric goals. Examples for editors/writers/media
      Creativity
      “Applies creative thinking to implement a vision for the company”
      “Continuously suggests new ideas in meetings and on projects”
      “Shows initiative with developing new ways of thinking to improve projects or company performance”

      Communication
      “Effectively communicates with colleagues, supervisors, partners and customers”
      “Clearly communicates ideas and thoughts in team meetings and conferences”
      “Is a constructive communicator and is capable of discussing difficult issues effectively and to the point”

      Accountability
      “Takes ownership in the company’s success and accepts responsibility for oneself and contribution as a team member”

      Editing/publishing
      Ability to apply editing and text-publishing methods, standards, and practices in preparing documents for publication
      Ability to synthesize, organize, rewrite, refine, format, edit materials while maintaining the integrity of the ideas
      Ability to ensure consistency of style and information within a document
      Ability to explain and defend editorial decisions
      Ability to work with visual information specialists to ensure correctness, consistency, and completeness of final graphics and layout
      Ability to aid in maintaining up-to-date writing/editing standards and guidelines

      Hope this helps!

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        It helped me! I’m a new manager of a creative team, and these are all things I can focus on in my reviews for my direct reports. I’ll be copy/pasting this.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I’m a graphic designer and there are KPI’s that you can track in numbers, but that would be easier for digital publications rather than print — number of clicks/likes/shares type of stuff — that indicate the writing or design reached the intended audience. We always try to tie our individual goals back to the organization’s goals. You could have your employees present their own market research that at least demonstrates they are keeping current with best practices or trends within their creative field, or the company’s business goals.

      Our writers track when their press releases are picked up in the media and where…do they need to change their writing “voice” to appeal to a more international audience, or target getting their work published in other locations to draw readers back to your publication?

      Another thing my department keeps track of is “continuing education” in the form of conferences, webinars, or workshops. One of my goals is to attend Adobe Max for instance. I have to report back on which breakout sessions I’ve attended and key things I’ve learned.

    3. WellRed*

      I actually am an editor at a monthly (plus daily and weekly web stuff). I just pulled up my review. We discussed accomplishments from the past year, ways to improve performance, strengths and areas for growth, possible barriers to effective performance, my feedback for my manager, and short and long term goals. No kpis needed ; ) that all gets tracked elsewhere such as web traffic

  60. AnonThis Time*

    Bit of a weird one here… there’s a new person on our team who seems to have instantly decided that they hate me. I mean… actively hate. They’ve been here two weeks and in that time all they’ve done is scowl at me or ignore me. I sat opposite them in a meeting and no lie, they were glaring at me the WHOLE time.

    I couldn’t work out what I’d done, so I asked one of my coworkers who seems to actually be able to talk to this new person, and got the answer ‘they just don’t like you.’ No elaboration or reason. No ‘they don’t like your taste in clothes’ or ‘you accidentally locked your bike to theirs’ or anything! I am baffled.

    Apart from our manager saying ‘hi this is Anon, she manages the booking slots for the guinea pig grooming’ and me saying ‘hi, welcome to the team!’ I’ve not interacted with the new person at all. I smile when I see them looking in my direction but then I do that to everyone if I make eye contact.

    What do I DO? Their role is similar to mine – say they would book slots for chinchilla massage – but we don’t actually have to work together. We are however on the same team and I am not kidding when I say I can feel the dislike radiating from them whenever I am near them.

    I can only see this going downhill so does anyone have any solutions? I know talking to them would be the easiest way but if they see me walking anywhere near them they deliberately move or turn their chair away from me. Am at a bit of a loss here!

      1. Dragonfly7*

        Agreed. You don’t have to like each other, but the deliberately moving away and avoidance is a problem, especially if you eventually DO have to work together.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Ignore it. Like, actively ignore the bad vibe. It isn’t your problem, it is their problem.

      Keep treating them exactly the way you treat everyone else. If you normally smile when you make eye contact, keep doing it. If you normally give a nod or a little wave when arriving or departing from the office, keep right on doing it.

      You go right ahead and be normal, and let them be as weird as they want to be. They will either get over it or die mad, and either way you don’t have any control over it. It has nothing to do with you at all.

    3. PollyQ*

      Be polite and professional at all times with them, and ignore their weirdness (and it is indeed 100% THEIR weirdness). My prediction is that this will not be the only issue this person has, and I bet they’ll crash & burn within 6 months.

      1. Long winded and fed up*

        Yeah, I don’t understand how someone who’s new walks into a team and acts that way towards anyone. I wouldn’t be able to let it go. A co-worker happens to know that the new person doesn’t like me, but hasn’t said or may not even know why. Now there is a bad dynamic going on and it doesn’t seem to be the letter writer’s fault. I would either ask the coworker again if they know why, ask the new person directly, or fill my manager in because this is bizarre.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Not a work situation, but for several years (!!) in college, I was part of a close friend group where one of the people decided he hated me and refused to even acknowledge I was present. No glaring and he didn’t rant about me or trash me to others, but he would NOT speak to me, like, ever and the few attempts by mutual friends to figure out why failed.

      The way I handled it was, I just didn’t engage. I didn’t try to make him speak to me, I didn’t blatantly shun him in return, I just acted like everything was totally normal and any weirdness that came up was on him. And it was weird! It went on for so long! But honestly, as long as he wasn’t actively rude to me or about me, it was fine. As far as I could tell, everyone knew the problem wasn’t with me so I never felt I had to “prove” that I was likeable or that he was wrong.

      I have to admit, though, if this new person is actively rude to you to the point of turning or moving away when you happen to come near, I might be tempted to sit next to them in meetings with your manager present…

    6. 123Anonyphant*

      I don’t want to be rude, but are you certain this is actually what’s going on? From what you’ve written here, it sounds like all you know about this situation is that (1) New Person looks at you oddly, and (2) a third party told you it’s because New Person “hates you.” Could it be that maybe New Person has “resting bitch face” or similar and your coworker was messing with you or misinterpreted the situation?

      But either way, I think the others’ advice to just be unrelentingly polite and professional regardless is good. Whether New Person loves you or hates you or something in between, you can’t go wrong with that.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        That was my thought too, that New Person might not be thinking of AnonThisTime at all.

        How reliable is the source? And what exactly did they say? Did they say New Person said they disliked you or is it just their impression?

    7. Agile Phalanges*

      Sounds like it might be the kind of situation like you look exactly like their high school bully or an ex of theirs or something, and they just subconsciously hate you but it’s not actually ABOUT you. I’m with the folks who say to ignore it and be very conscious about treating them exactly as normally as you treat your other co-workers so the weirdness is all from them. Hopefully they’ll either come around as they associate better moods with you, or they’ll be weird in other ways and get pushed out one way or another. Sorry you’re dealing with it, though, that sounds unpleasant, to say the least.

    8. VLookupsAreMyLife*

      It sounds like most of this is based on nonverbal expressions that may or may not have anything to do with you. Have you tried talking to them directly? Like, just stopping by to say, “hey, welcome to the team” and just kind of make some small talk for a bit? I think you’ll have a better sense of what’s going on when you interact with them directly.

  61. Introvert girl*

    I’ve had this weird situation while looking for work.
    Yesterday I received a linkedin message asking me if I was interested in a position for company X. I wrote bac that I’ve already applied to company X for this position in July but haven’t heard since. So today, out of the blue, they send me a google invite for a 30-minute video interview.
    I find this very odd. No phone call, no e-mail back and forth about conditions, salary range, etc…
    I’m thinking about mailing this recruiter to ask for all the things you would normally ask before an interview. What do you think? Is company X a red flag? ps: They don’t have great reviews, but then again my last company had great reviews and I got burned out.

    1. MissGirl*

      I don’t think you have enough information to know if it’s a red flag. If you don’t want to waste your time in an interview, feel free to reach out about salary. As always, treat the interview as a fact-finding mission.

    3. PollyQ*

      No phone call, no e-mail back and forth about conditions, salary range, etc…

      IDK, I wouldn’t call any of this unusual. A 30-min video interview seems like a sub for an intitial phone call, and many companies don’t like to discuss salary this early on. If you want to ask the questions, esp. about salary range, sure, go ahead. I wouldn’t call any of this an inherent rad flag, but it may be a red flag for what you personally are looking for in an employer.

    4. Toasty*

      If I’m reading this correctly, the fact that they sent you a meeting invite without asking your availability is more concerning to me than not discussing salary expectations. Expecting you to just make time for company X, regardless of your other commitments, does not seem like a good indicator of their work culture.

      It’s also entirely possible that the meeting was sent by mistake, in which case they should have said something to you about the error.

  62. Seal*

    We have a new director and a few months in it’s obvious they can’t do the job. It’s not a matter of being new to a complex job and still settling in. This person does not understand what their role is, has not taken the time to learn what the various departments do and why, and clearly has no experience with a budget. Worse, they play favorites while bullying others. People are leaving in droves, which the director takes as personal affront. Like most of my colleagues, I’m frantically job hunting as well.

    As miserable as things are, what I find fascinating about all of this is the behavior of certain members of the search committee that recommended hiring this person. The search committee intentionally ignored the many red flags during the interview process and hired this person anyway, passing over a number of candidates who actually met the qualifications. To a person, they insisted the person they hired was going to be great and that the rest of the staff was wrong to question their decision. But now that things are falling apart, many committee members are going to ridiculous lengths to justify the new director’s bad behavior or dumb decisions, even when it impacts them directly. It’s like they know they screwed up but won’t admit it. Has anyone else seen this happen after a bad hire?

    1. AnonArchivist*

      I’ve seen this happen, though never with a director position. Most people don’t “intentionally” make a bad hire and I’d try to not think of it that way, because it creates purpose where often simple human blindspots are in place. I think of it kind of like breaking up with a partner. Usually, all the things that ended the relationship were there in the beginning of the relationship, they just weren’t obvious, because you convinced yourself they “weren’t a big deal”. So, yeah, bad hires happen and they are surprisingly easy. Once they happen, I think it can be hard to admit to yourself that you messed up. Humans are, in my experience, bad at self-awareness.

      1. Seal*

        This is a good analogy. The consensus amongst the staff is that the whole search process was comedy of errors. By the time the finalists were chosen, the search committee had convinced themselves that the single most important quality for the next director to have was charisma. So they chose the person who made them laugh the most during their interview. The obvious lack of experience, the lukewarm references, the push back from the rest of the staff? None of that mattered, because they were looking for charisma, not competence. I do think that sooner than later most of the search committee members will admit they messed up. Here’s hoping they all learned something in the process.

    2. Librarian of SHIELD*

      We had a situation like this at my last job. There had been a week-long interview process that included the guy being taken on site visits to all of our branches. I found out later that one of the employees included on these trips pulled the hiring manager aside and said, “don’t hire this guy, don’t you f-ing do it.” Guy was hired, we had about a year of bananapants office drama, some people quit or retired, and then the job was modified to remove a huge amount of this guy’s interaction with other employees. But the hiring manager was never willing to admit he should have taken the advice he was given, and to this day he insists that it wasn’t a bad choice.

      1. Seal*

        Truth be told, as disgusted as I am with how we got to this point, I’d have much more respect for everyone involved if they’d just admit they screwed up. Watching otherwise intelligent people double down on such a bad decision is maddening. A fascinating study on human nature to be sure; pity the consequences were so dire.

  63. First Time Mom*

    Hi all! I’m pregnant with my first child!

    Does anyone have any advice on telling my boss? I’m not sure if there’s a *best* time. We have two other people who are about to head out on maternity leave, so I don’t know if it’s better to raise the issue before or after they leave.

    Any other thoughts and advice for navigating work while pregnant? The nausea is killing me, so I’m so thankful I’m still working from home. Thank you!

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Tell them when you would feel comfortable mentioning it, but ideally at least a few months before leave so there is time to prepare. I don’t think it matters whether you mention it before others take leave.

      On the other front, my folks always told me really early, so there was an open line of communication on what they needed in the moment – sometimes it was taking the day when things were bad, partial days, switching up duties (ie: fine to work on non-voice tasks, but I really can’t do phone calls today). You don’t have to give details or reveal that you’re pregnant sooner than you want for this, it just makes it a bit easier.

      Congrats!

      1. First Time Mom*

        Thanks! I know my boss would be extremely empathetic about the nausea if I told her, but I’m definitely nervous about saying anything before all of the scans and tests come back with good news. I think I’ll say something during my 2nd trimester but give her a heads up sooner rather than later.

    2. FashionablyEvil*

      Congrats! I think it really depends on what other things that are going on—I’m just past the end of my first trimester and am telling friends, etc., but am waiting until mid-October (aka AFTER performance reviews are done) to tell my team and my boss. It’ll still be 4 months’ notice, but I’m not giving them a chance to have it influence my review and raise.

      1. Decidedly Me*

        This is so sad :( Not that you’re making this choice, but that there is a need to.

        Also – congrats to you as well!

        1. FashionablyEvil*

          I mean, I don’t really think that my boss will hold it against me, but I don’t know her that well (she’s been my VP for 18 months, but I’ve only reported to her directly since July when my boss left), and I just don’t want to even have it be a possibility.

      2. First Time Mom*

        Thanks! That’s a good point. Luckily, we did ours a few months ago (and I got a promotion!), but it will feel better if I’m a little more secure in my new role before I say anything.

    3. Macaroni Penguin*

      I announced my pregnancy when I emailed my supervisor the monthly timesheet. With some amusement, I let let her know that I’d be needing to take a leave of absence in the future. Also attached was an ultrasound picture. We’re a fairly casual workplace that gets along well with each other. Lastly, this was during The Plague Times so I couldn’t tell her in person.

      1. First Time Mom*

        That’s cute! I’ll definitely have to tell her over Zoom, but I need to think about what to put in the email subject line when I request the meeting.

        1. Macaroni Penguin*

          This was extra funny because I normally emailed her a funny picture of my cats along with the timesheet! She was like
          “Oh my goodness! Congratulations!”

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      Congratulations! Notify your boss dependent on YOUR timeline, not that of others. If you want to wait until after a certain milestone in your pregnancy to announce, then wait, regardless of whether others have left or not. (For me, I wanted to wait until after getting back NIPT results and would not have notified my boss before that no matter what.) As far as working while pregnant, if you are getting hit by fatigue as well, don’t be afraid to say “I’m feeling under the weather this afternoon. Is it OK if I sign off early?” Same if the nausea is bad. If you need to go to medical appointments, just let your boss know while describing them that way, as medical appointments, end of story.

      One thing I did when I found out I was pregnant was make a list of all my individual tasks, responsibilities, meetings, etc., to make it easier to figure out coverage while I was gone. For me as a manager, it was mostly me deciding whom to delegate stuff to, but it would also be helpful for your boss to do the delegation if they’re the one who’s going to do that.

      1. First Time Mom*

        Thank you! This advice is all very helpful. I definitely need to start making a list of all of my tasks, though I’m pretty sure most of them will simply be put on pause while I’m out (I can’t explain more about my job function without revealing too much). It will be easier to record everything if I write it down as I do it.

    5. Policy Wonk*

      Tell your boss when your pregnancy starts to have an effect on your work. I had horrible morning sickness, so alerted him when I missed several days of work over a two week period. (Sooner than I would have liked to notify him, but he needed to know why I was calling out sick so often. Note – this was before WFH was a thing.)

      RE: the morning sickness: Sea Bands (acu-pressure bands designed for seasickness) helped some, as did ginger. Tea with ginger if you can stomach it, as it also replenishes liquid, or crystalized ginger to snack on. Congrats and good luck!

  64. Overthinker*

    I was hoping that there are some federal workers here who switched to from being individual contributors in the government to a supervisory position in the private sector. How difficult was it? What helped in the transition? What was particularly helpful in terms of skills or experiences gained in the government. The only way for me to advance in the government is to move into a supervisory position but it would come with a very small increase. I would probably have to take a payout to move to an individual contributor position in the private sector. So I am trying to figure out if it makes sense to both try change the sector and move up. I am also a little tired of government and would like to try something different. Thanks so much for any insights!

  65. MissGirl*

    My coworker and I started the same week in our positions and do the same work. She came from outside the company while I transferred in. A few months after we started, the department was reorganized and our work changed to heavily focus on one aspect of it. Neither one of us were thrilled. Our workload depends on new clients coming in and that has slowed some. The company also announced a promotion and a hiring freeze. I decided it was time to start a job hunt.

    After all this came down, we sat down to talk it out because she wanted to bounce her thoughts off on me. It turns out another similar company reached out to her about a position. She’d started the interview process but was hesitant as she’s only been with us for six months. I told her to do what was best for her but to also communicate her concerns to our manager (without telling him about the new position, of course).

    A few days later, she told me she’d decided to decline the other job and focus on our company. I actually looked up the job and debated applying for it myself but was worried how that would seem. Luckily, I didn’t because the other company asked her for final interviews and references and she decided to stick with it.

    She put me down as a reference. It turns out the hiring manager and I used to work at the same company. I gave her a glowing reference as she deserves and I suspect she’ll take it. I have two questions.

    Would it be weird for me to reach out in a bit to tell the manager I would be interested in any future positions? I figured it would come off weird to do that on a reference call so I kept the focus on her. She’s already determined to find me a job there :)

    With her leaving, I also don’t feel good about ramping up my own job search for a month or so to give the company time to replace her since now I’m the sole person in the role. How soon is too soon to look? It’s a great company but I can make more money elsewhere.

    1. AnonArchivist*

      You can look right now. It’ll likely take a few months to find anything and you don’t owe it to your company to stay if you’re not happy there.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      Not weird – do it! I had been the one calling someone’s references and want to talk to them about whether they’d be interested in the role, too (to be clear, when there are multiple openings). I haven’t done this yet, but I have hired a referral that happened to be someone’s reference :)

      Also, it’s not too soon to look. Does the timing suck for the company? Sure – but that’s not your problem.

      1. MissGirl*

        Good to know. I’m going to wait until she has an offer so it doesn’t look like I’m trying to steal her position. He accepted my connection on LinkedIn.

    3. PollyQ*

      Go ahead & tell the outside manager you’d be interested, and overall, start job-hunting now. You may or may not find something before your current company finds a replacement, but regardless, as I just told someone else: “Not your circus, not your monkeys.”

  66. ParaProblems*

    I currently work in a public service role that has been hemorrhaging my specific position. Classic case of employees leaving, not hiring anyone quickly, expecting current employees shoulder the burden, burning people out to the point they quit. I guess it’s my turn? I have also had an issue with a few people I work with here – as they treat others poorly.

    I’m expecting an offer for a new position with about the same pay, worse benefits, a WAY lighter workload, and MUCH nicer people.

    There are several groups in our firm that have several people of my role. Fully staffed, there’s about 4 of us. Currently there’s 3. As of September 16th there will be 2. If I get the job, and submit my 2 weeks, there would only be one – left to support 23 people.

    I know leaving is the best move for me personally and professionally, but how do I deal with the intense guilt of leaving my department in such a state?

    Thank you in advance!!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm. You cant stay in toxic job just because everyone else is leaving. Also perhaps you leaving with the others gives the toxic job the feedback to finally take it seriously and address some of the problems. Give as much notice as you can. (Also the other person is probably also job hunting so if you don’t take the better job offer you may well find yourself the last one standing)

    2. PollyQ*

      how do I deal with the intense guilt of leaving my department in such a state?

      YOU are not leaving your department in that state. Your management has put the department in that state by failing to hire & retain adequate staff. Repeat the classic mantra to yourself: “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”

      1. ParaProblems*

        You’re exactly right here – and I need to stop taking the blame. I can point to decisions made in the hiring and retention process that lead to this problem. I’ll try to repeat that in my head for the next few weeks!

  67. Overeducated*

    What’s the most unpleasant, teeth-pulling, nails-on-a-chalkboard task you’ve had to spend a lot of time on this week?

    Mine is HR paperwork. Sooooo many forms.

    1. Mr. Cajun2core*

      Learning VBA. I thought it would be fun at first then I remembered why I don’t like coding.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I’m spending six hours a day in process mapping two days this week and four days next week, and so far 1.5 hours of it total have been directly relevant to me.

      1. Overeducated*

        I love process mapping! But it would probably be pretty painful if it were not relevant to me.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Also if more of the people in the session actually knew how to do process mapping, that would help too. As it is, getting them to explain what they do is like pulling teeth, and they keep wanting to get off into the weeds on that really super weird thing they saw happen that one time (ten years ago) and how they had to fix that (in a system we don’t use anymore).

    3. Decidedly Me*

      I’m in a losing battle with Excel on something that is critical and I even have contacts that were programmers on the product….

    5. Littorally*

      I spent an hour and a half on the phone with an angry client, arguing over whether April is more than 90 days after February :)

      1. Littorally*

        * Obviously, actual fact in question altered for privacy reasons, but it was genuinely that dumb.

        1. nightengale*

          Well I once had a series of conversations with my insurance company about 84 being less than 90

          (They covered a new shipment of items every 90 days. The items were shipped in boxes of 12, with each item lasting 7 days. I was calling to get an early fill every 3 months, because every 3 months I was stuck with the reality that 84 was less than 90. . .

    6. RussianInTexas*

      Ridiculous back and forth between me, customer, and the back office over inventory levels for an order.
      My back office is terrible communication-wise, so every single detail is like pulling teeth. Sending a list of questions proactively does not work. They reply to ONE question. You have to e-mail back, and get them to reply to each question individually. No one answers the phone, I am remote so I can’t walk over to their office and just ask, as I used to, and they don’t like IM.
      Every single dang time there are issues with an order.

    7. RussianInTexas*

      This is not last week. This is from last year.
      I spent 6 hours on a phone with FedEx trying to make the to deliver the package to the correct warehouse, because they kept claiming the doors were closed, and the receiving side kept claiming the door was open, as per usual, during business hours.

    8. Llellayena*

      Herding cats…well, not literally, but chasing down people who generally have very small windows of time you can catch them who you desperately need something from to complete your part of a job. It doesn’t help when that job is something they specifically assigned to you because they knew you’d be able to get it done. Unfortunately, the ONE roadblock I have no control over is the one I’m stuck on, it requires their input.

    9. Chaordic One*

      We have a project management software that is a real PITA and time suck. Usually one or the other of two departments that process incoming correspondence screws up and I have to request the documents from records and the requests fall into a black hole. Every week I have to go in an update the inventory list of cases that I can’t process. When cases close or are transferred to other departments I have to notate that in the software. If I can close a case, then I notate that. There’s a category called “expiring cases” which are going to come up for further action in the next few days. I just type in a notation that says, “Waiting”. I’m not going to do anything if I don’t have paperwork before I have to. There are procedures for reordering and re-reordering documents that don’t come in after given periods of time. The whole software just seems like such a waste of time and a distraction from actually getting the work done.

    10. Dark Macadamia*

      Forcing my brain back into work mode (SAHM for 6 years). Once I start something I’m like “oh yeah, I’ve done this before!” but everything involves like 2 days of procrastination and anxiety

    11. 123Anonyphant*

      Internal politics. Seriously people — I can solve this problem if you just leave me alone to deal with it. I can’t solve it if that area wants explanatory slides, that other area wants us to work in a different language because “reasons”, management takes six different conflicting decisions because they don’t understand the problem but their lunch bodies said we should do all the things, this one loud person thinks we should do something completely different because ten years ago a different law that no longer applies required us to do something completely different, etc.

    12. 653-CXK*

      Passive aggressive emails, because people think if they manipulate me enough, I will drop what I’m doing and cater to their problem.

      E.g. I’m working on the weekly widget inventory for my boss, which is time-critical because any variances incur an audit. Deep into my review, I get a passive aggressive email from another department saying that a client has not received their gadgets, meaning at least two hours of research, finding out where the gadgets went, discovering that they weren’t produced, never mind delivered, overnighting the gadgets to the client, and apologies.

      I get back to the weekly widget inventory, and other passive-aggressive email pops up – another client has receives less gadgets than they ordered. Another three hours of research and logistics later, I’m done, and by now I’m five hours behind. I power through the widget inventory and finish with ten minutes to spare.

      Now it’s the end of the day, so I kick back and answer some friendlier emails (including one to my boss, telling them that except for three widgets in repair, the inventory is all set, or notices from the CEO about new clients wanting some gadgets)…until yet another passive aggressive email comes up. This time, it’s from an upset client hasn’t received their gadgets in months and is threatening to pull their account. Fortunately, I have a separate folder for this client as they’ve been known to cry wolf in the past, and it takes about three minutes to discover we sent them widgets, not gadgets. A three minute phone call and an “oh, yeah…we’re not due for gadgets in six months!” later, and that’s resolved.

      And it’s not just passive-aggressive emails – it’s passive-aggressive Teams conversations. One I had from my boss about a month ago put me into a table-flipping nervous breakdown (one client was being refusing to send us orders for gadgets until the outstanding ones were fulfilled). Thankfully I was working at home, but I think it was more from the client than my boss, who was as equally frustrated as I was.

      Sorry for the long post/rant…I just needed to get it off my chest.

  68. AnonArchivist*

    I’m an Archivist in charge of a unit within a Uni, but my training is in libraries. I’ve been managing a staff for a few years now. This is my first time as a manager. Earlier this year, I had to take four months off for major life-impacting surgery. At the same time, we hired a third staff person and two more student assistants. Since I was gone for a long time recovering, the place had to run without me and it did really well. I’m super proud of my people and how well they managed everything. However, I’ve been back for a few months now and I’m struggling to sort out where I fit in. I feel useless and sort of lost. I know it’s a good thing that my staff don’t “need me”, but we’ve also basically hired people to do the work that I enjoy the most. So, I am left doing the higher level work which, while I excel at it, I don’t enjoy it. I keep thinking, is it time to move on? Or do I just need to work to redefine my place in the structure? I have a great boss, but like a lot of bosses, she has no idea what really happens in an Archive, so mostly leaves me alone to manage things. I guess I’m just hoping for some advice on how to work through this.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Are there any *new* projects or tasks that normally you didn’t have time for that you could start now that the others are doing some of your work? Or are there tasks the new people could switch over to to give you back some of the favorite task?

      1. biglib*

        Seconding this, fellow supervisory librarian here. I prioritize 1) Paving the way for my staff. At every quarterly check-in I ask, “What could I be doing that would make your job better?” and once I know that’s in place, I pursue pet projects (outreach, collaboration with other departments, etc.)

    2. Academic Librarian Too*

      If you are in charge of the libraries and you are going to keep all of this staff, yea!
      Put strategic planning as part of your goals. If you had all the money in the world what fabulous long range project that would be engaging and fabulous and fun!
      Do you want to partner with another institution using the archives for an exhibit?
      Are you on tenure track and you can use this time for research and writing and publishing?
      Do you have a marketing plan to engage faculty in using primary sources?
      Professional development?
      Grant writing?
      Publications?
      Raising an endowment?

  69. Anon for This*

    Hey, I was hoping I could get some advice/thoughts on a situation. I was recently at a conference out of state. While there I had an injury that I decided needed medical attention and ended up take a Lyft to a hospital (the injury turned out to be fairly minor, but it was hard to tell from the outset if that was the case). I didn’t realize until after the fact that my Lyft account was currently linked to my company card (because I had used it for the ride from the airport) so my Lyft rides to and from the hospital were charged to that card rather than my personal card.

    Obviously I’m going to reach out to our business office about the situation, but I wasn’t sure if this was something I should be expected to pay out of pocket for? Or since I was on a work trip would I be okay thinking (hoping?) they’ll cover it? The injury didn’t occur while I was doing anything unsafe or anything. Appreciate any thoughts (even if it’s that I’ll have to eat the cost, which is fine).

    2. PollyQ*

      Do you have company-provided health insurance? If so, and you’d taken an ambulance, that would’ve (probably) been covered, and the Lyft was probably a couple orders of magnitude cheaper, so you could consider that you saved your company a bundle, in a way.

      Philosophically, I could see the argument either way. OTOH, you were only in that location without a car to drive yourself because you were on a business trip. OTOH, the injury wasn’t, apparently, caused by anything you were doing on the job. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ultimately, you should run it by your boss and/or HR, and it’ll be whatever they say it is.

  70. GirlFriday*

    Do any of you have a job as a LEAN/Agile consultant? Would you be willing to walk me through how you got your certification and how you got your job?

  71. Boots v Brass*

    Is a high ratio of Vice Presidents or leadership titles a red flag? Is there a “normal “ level?

    I worked at a museum that had like 13 VPs for a staff of 240, and that felt really bloated (at least compared to the educators who were making $11/hour, while they made six figures)… after an exposé in the local paper they reorganized and turned some into directors.

    Now I work at another nonprofit that is associated with a national org that creates programming they license out to us and others in a network of independently run organizations. Out of a staff of about 20, they have a CEO, CFO, and 3 VPs, including a VP of Human Resources. (Also 8 directors and 5 managers, with 4 people left in associate/assistant/officer roles).

    Is this as unusual as it seems to me?

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      It kinda depends on what your company defines as a VP. For some companies, VP is an extremely high title and there’s only one of them. For others it’s a senior-ish role, but it means more of a department head or team manager, so you’ll have one in every group. Manager can also mean different things – I have manager in my title, but I manage teapots, not people.

      But in a 20 person organization, only 4 people aren’t a manager of some sorts? That seems a bit much, but I’m also unfamiliar with non-profits or your specific company, so I’m not able to really tell if it makes sense here. I suppose if the work is getting done and it’s not just people standing around with lofty titles (which it sounds like was the case at the museum you worked at) it doesn’t really matter? But I’m not super sure, how is the company operating in general? If things are fine then I wouldn’t worry, but the title distribution might just be the most easily pinpointable concern if you think there are other bees swarming.

    2. Specialized Skillets*

      It seems to me that nonprofits have a tendency to hand out “Director” titles for lower-level positions to make up for crappy pay. I worked Specialist and Coordinator level jobs in local government doing the same work that my peers were doing as Directors.

      I think it’s a bad idea, FWIW – can make it hard for those folks to move on without the perception of regressing.

    3. ferrina*

      No, I wouldn’t consider it a red flag. Number of “VPs” depends a lot on the industry, public visibility, what a VP is defined as (seconding A Simple Narwhal) and can even be a retention technique (as Specialized Skillets says)

      A VP of Human resources isn’t unusual- the title gives HR more visibility and perceived power at the table. The “manager” label depends on what experience the manager has and what they are managing- if they are program managers, I’m not concerned.

      I’d also think about what kind of visibility each role has and why they might have the title. I worked a job where I did a lot of coordination and outreach to external stakeholders, and some just wouldn’t answer my emails. My boss would literally say “ferrina is running the project”, and they would still ignore anything I said. My boss would need to copy/paste my email to get a response from them, which was a waste of time. In that case, I needed the Director title in order to do my job (unfortunately, my company refused and I was stuck on an endless cycle of “repeatedly reach out, then send text to my boss to copy/paste”).

    4. AdequateArchaeologist*

      Our company has between 5-7 VPs and we aren’t terribly large. Part of it is the way they’ve structured it. Each region has its own VP to head it, plus there are like 1 or 2 VPs in the “typical” VP role of being directly adjacent to the president. It sounds weird but looking at the org chart it makes sense. They just don’t tack “regional” onto the title of the VPs over various regions.

    5. Anon For This*

      A place where my husband worked would give people VP titles instead of raises. Seemed like a significant portion of the staff had a VP title, and internally it became meaningless (but people liked putting it on their resumes.)

  72. AnonPi*

    TLDR: Thoughts on going into UX Design/Research or Business Analytics with regards to job availability and pay range? Education is science (2 BS and 1 MA though that’s more science ed/comm). 7 yrs exp in science, 7 in R&D administrator support. Have a little experience with UX design and data analysis, so not exactly entry level but would probably be considered early career?

    Longer version: I’m giving up moving to project management full time. I got interested in it while working as a scientist years ago as the tools/techniques helped managing science projects/tasks easier. Had a manager that recommended PM to me as they thought I’d be good at it, esp if I could do so for a science lab/R&D/env firms. I admittedly was also interested because I was looking for a career that had a higher pay scale. Before I could really do much along those lines I had to find a new job as old one was ending, and took an administrative support role at a R&D place. Since then I’ve done PM as part of my job the last several years (though small scale projects), and got my agile cert about two years ago. However I can’t find a job that can pay any more than I currently make (many way less) and I can’t afford a pay cut. I suspect in large part due to the market being flooded with applicants so they can offer less. Even applying at my current employer is getting me nowhere. After searching for several years I’ve decided it’s not working out and need to pivot to something else.

    I’m considering either UX Design (perhaps focus on Research given my science/research background) or Business Analytics (exp doing data analysis from both jobs). I’ve gotten to do a little UX Design in my current job and really like it. Would probably get a cert in both Design and Research, and my current manager has offered to let me do more work in that to develop a portfolio. But I worry about the flood of people getting into it with all the bootcamps and everything. I realize I may improve my chances targeting the research side as there wouldn’t be as many people applying for those, but at the same time there would be fewer UX Research jobs than UX design jobs. And could/is the same thing happening regarding pay scale as the PM, with so many people seeking jobs will companies start offering less $ at least for early career?

    The Business Analytics is a pretty good fit too since I do have experience working with data and analyzing it, and my PM experience/cert is a good pairing to go with it too. I’d probably get a BA cert, take a few classes on the more specific application tools for BA then start applying. But I admit I’m not as interested in it as the UX. And I’m finding I’m struggling to get a good feel for how in demand it is – I read stuff saying it is an in demand field, but looking at job postings I’m not so sure, at least for an early career switcher.

    Sorry I know it’s long. I guess I’m worried about making another decision that doesn’t work out like with the PM. And there’s the whole choosing to pick the one that more interests me (UX), or pick the one that in a lot of ways appears to make more sense (BA). I kind of feel like I’ve done two major career changes in my life (or well, tried for a 2nd change), so I’d like this to be the last and settle into something that I like and pays well for awhile at least.

  73. fine tipped pen aficionado*

    I am just dying to share this story everywhere because it blew my mind that it happened.

    I have a coworker, Bill, who is condescending and patronizing and generally disliked throughout our organization. He is especially cruel and belittling to women and has been formally disciplined for such. In my opinion, he should have been fired, but it’s municipal government so what can you do.

    Bill’s office is across the hall from mine. His desk is right beside his door, like he is three feet from the threshold close. And yesterday, Bill took a personal phone call from that very same desk. He took that phone call with the door wide open, at normal speaking volume, and having just asked me a question between our open doorways (the hallways are narrow).

    Reader, I try very hard not to listen to his conversations. He is even crueler and more condescending to his wife than he is to his co-workers, which is an achievement. It’s hard to listen to without wanting to do a violence.

    This one I couldn’t help hearing. This man said, not even bothering to whisper, with his door open in his place of business, “Sookie, if you don’t start giving it up, I’m not going to consider myself a married man anymore.”

    I thought I had misheard it because there’s no way someone, even Bill, would say something like that at work with zero attempts at discretion. Even if you don’t care about your professional reputation, you’d think he wouldn’t want people knowing he’s so revolting even his wife won’t sleep with him.

    But then he started bullying her into planning a romantic weekend getaway to “reconnect”.

    I haven’t been able to stop thinking about this since it happened.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      Ugh, that’s awful—sorry you had to hear all of that! I would consider reporting that as, “Bill was having a sexual conversation with his wife with his office door open.” Because no one should have to listen to that grossness (wife or colleagues!)

    3. CheeryO*

      I’m sorry. I’m in government too and have overheard some awful conversations between male coworkers and their wives, but that is absolutely vile and beyond inappropriate. I would tell someone. His boss needs to do their job and document it and continue to move the disciplinary process along.

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Ok. I hate this for his poor wife. But unless you know her, there’s really nothing you can do here.

      I might start enforcing a “I’m going to close your door – your personal conversation is distracting to me” rule. For a few reasons — 1. to not be poisoned by the toxic, 2. to look him in the eye while he’s being hateful and thus, as I close the door, acknowledge that I know exactly what he was saying because it was so loud that I heard it and it distracted me from my work, 3. to start building a rationale so that I could request a move away from that space which is causing me work distraction and personal distress.

    5. Nesprin*

      Go to HR. “I heard Bill tell his wife that she needs to put out more” is something that should make any HR person start sweating about hostile work environments.

    6. noncommittal pseudonym*

      I once overheard our CFO apologizing and groveling for not putting her partner’s cereal bowl in the refrigerator before she left at 5 am that morning. It was disturbing.

    7. Teach*

      I used to be married to a Bill – he isn’t shutting his door or using discretion because he believes he is perfectly justified in his wants and however he decides to get them fulfilled.

  74. I'm just here for the cats!*

    Has anyone seen the NY Post article where the guy asks if he can discipline his employees who are quietly quitting? I thought it was really interesting being there was something on social media (Instagram probably) about Work-to Rule which is how you are supposed to do just exactly what is in your job description, an not do any OT, take less breaks etc. I just think it’s so interesting that some employers want to punish their employees for just doing their job. I wish I could find the Instagram post but I can’t but here is the NY Post article What do you all think?

    https://nypost.com/2022/08/21/can-i-discipline-my-employees-who-are-quietly-quitting/

    1. ferrina*

      I hate the term “quiet quitting”.

      But the issue in the link is that his employees aren’t meeting his standards. That’s fair! The first thing to do is figure out what your standards are. So many managers expect employees to live up to standards, when the manager can’t even articulate what these are! So…
      1. Articulate your standards.
      2. Reflect on these standards. Are they reasonable? (if you’re expecting a team to be 100% peppy all day, every day…um, no.)
      3. Plan how to meet these standards. How long will it reasonably take for employees to begin performing to these new standards? What training, tools or resources will they need?
      4. Communicate your goals to the team. Since his question is about a team of employees, that’s a journey you’ll need to collaborate on. Share your vision for what you want the team to be, and commit to how you will support the team in getting there. Make sure that your standards are clear, and try to get buy-in (as opposed to laying down edicts).
      5. Encourage the team, give feedback and take feedback. Change can be hard and doesn’t always go the way you think it will. Encourage the team to come forward with recommendations and suggestions on how to achieve the goal. Praise the team for what they do well (essential for morale). You want the vibe to be “we’re collaborating and working towards the goal together, like an underdog sports team from a Disney movie”.
      6. Reward good work. This isn’t always monetary- it can be more interesting projects, more public recognition, more flexibility in where and when they work. Monetary is always good too.

      Usually that will get you pretty close to where you want. It’s not unusual to have a couple bad apples that will need to be let go. In rare occasions it will be an entire team. But start from a place of collaboration to inspire the good folks that are burned out or simply don’t know that you have these expectations- it will help you save on turn-over costs and earn you a reputation as a fair and just manager (rather than a tyrant who demands subordinates kowtow)

      1. Girasol*

        Red flag if those standards include butt-in-seat hours – where presence rather than results is the primary measure of a good employee – most especially if the expectation is for more than 40 hours a week or whatever time they’re paid for.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        I also 100% dislike that term. I think everything you’re listing makes sense. In the end of the day, you can have standards that you expect your employees to conform to.

    2. calvin blick*

      Honestly, the question was pretty different from the headline. The headline made it sound like this manager wanted to whip the employees while the actual question was more along the lines of “What can I do to make my employees engaged?”

  75. To apply or not to apply*

    A few months ago, I applied to an organization, got an interview and completely blew it. Is it worth it to apply to another opening they have now? For perspective, let’s say it’s a climate change organization, very partisan, and that I’ve volunteered with them before. Prior to interviewing with them, I had interviewed with another activist organization that was non-partisan and did not get the job because they felt that my climate change focused volunteer work was a conflict of interest with their activist goals. So I went into the interview with the climate change organization psyched out that I was “too partisan” and (through poor analogies/word choices), made it sound like I would be supportive of working with people who, for example, are supportive of fracking to find solutions to climate change. My interviewer said something like “you do understand that we are extremely partisan and are not interested in working with fracking orgs to find solutions,” and I quickly realized how what I had said came across and tried to back-pedal, but by then it was clear I had screwed up too badly to save the interview. They still have several openings and I still participate in volunteer activities and events with this organization. Is it even worth it to try to apply again for one of them? It’s possible that the interview would be with someone different, but I have a fairly unique name and it’s likely I would be recognized.

    1. ferrina*

      I would give it a few more months. If their sense is that you don’t understand the mission, that doesn’t usually go away in a few months. Six months is the minimum where I’d expect that kind of growth (and really closer to a year). You know it was a bad day, but unfortunately it’s the main impression they have of you.

      However- what is your volunteering role? Does it intersect with anyone that you would be working with in the role? Is it new? If it’s a new role, you can say in your cover letter that volunteering with the organization has given you insight into the mission and you are really excited because it matches with your own politics and philosophies. (If its longer term, that would sound disingenuous- why wouldn’t you have realized that before the first interview?) If you have been able to intersect with people on the team that the posted role would be in, that can be helpful. Just knowing who you are is a plus. I wouldn’t talk about applying while you are volunteering- that can seem like you are trying to pressure your way into a job, even if that’s not what you’re going for at all! If none of these are the case, I’d give it some more time before reapplying.

  76. whistle*

    My local area recently hosted the Western & Southern Open, a professional tennis tournament. A few weeks before, the local news was covering an event to organize volunteers for the tournament, and they said that they had about 800 volunteers.

    I’m curious about the legalities of having volunteers for a for-profit event like this. How is volunteer labor legal in this context?

    Even if it’s legal, how is it *acceptable*? Why are they not paying people? Why would anyone volunteer to work an event that makes so much money for so many people?

    (No personal stake in this, just curious what the AAM commentariat has to say.)

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      My dad & stepmom have volunteered for stuff like this. The duties are light, but they get swag & to see the event for free. And free food, so the “reimbursement” is just not in money. They’re retirees & have more free time to do stuff like this.

      You’d have to pay me an incredibly large sum of money to attend any golf event, but I am not a fan. (It sounds like film festivals in SoCal are the really good places to volunteer, if for the thank-you dinner alone.)

    2. Chilipepper Attitude*

      My old neighbors were long-time volunteers at a very fancy, for-profit theater in the area. They were ushers. They mostly got to see the shows and loved doing it.

    3. PollyQ*

      A quick google suggests that the tournament is owned by the USTA, which is a non-profit organization, so that’s why it would be legal for them to use volunteers, regardless of whether the event itself generates a profit.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        Yes, that is my understanding. The USTA is a non-profit. The volunteers are volunterring for the USTA. (It’s not really “owned” by the USTA. Tournaments have their own owners. But it’s sort of complicated to explain.)

    4. LDN Layabout*

      A lot of bigger sporting events do this and the benefit of it is in kind, so attending the event(s) themselves, contact with VIPs etc.

      I know people who have done it for a variety of niche sports and also the Olympics and they’re always heavily oversubscribed in terms of people who want to volunteer.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        The weirdest one for me is that Lambeau Field uses volunteers to shovel snow. I do my best to avoid shoveling my own snow! And it’s not like the Packers are there handing out hot cocoa.

    5. whistle*

      Thanks for everyone’s responses. I see now how it’s legal (non-profit event host/owner), and I understand why people would choose to volunteer.

      It doesn’t sit right with me personally. Not this tournament specifically, but the whole concept of volunteer labor for a lucrative event that is not done to benefit the less fortunate is kinda icky to me. There was letter awhile back from a store owner (some type of gaming store iirc) who was using volunteer labor from friends and customers who just wanted the store to exist, and of course the advice was that this is not legal. I’m not comfortable with the idea that it’s illegal for customers to volunteer their time to help a store that they very much want in their community, but it’s legal for hundreds of volunteers to provide labor to a sports tournament that other people walk away from with millions just because it’s organized by a non-profit.

  77. Bikkit*

    I finally have a meeting in a couple of weeks with big boss to discuss a pay review for my job after months and months of being fobbed off. One of the reasons given for trying to avoid actually talking to me about it was he ‘thinks I’ll be disappointed with what is offered’. The truth is my position has changed beyond recognition in the years I’ve worked here are the company has grown and my individual contributor role has had more and more responsibility (and work!) assigned to it. As it’s a candidate’s market I’ve seen new hires given much higher salaries than me because they had the bargaining power of us needing to fill vacancies – and it’s all been sticking in my throat a little. I’ve stayed up to now out of convenience, good work/life balance and supportive covid policies.

    My question is how to rationalise in a constructive way that their (anticipated) offer is derisory and the gulf between what I was recruited to do and what I actually do warrants a more significant bump? I don’t have any peers who do what I do, but there are comparable roles in terms of seniority and expertise. Knowing big boss as I do I know the offer will be a total lowball, maybe a couple of hundred dollars more per year and although I don’t think they’ll negotiate much I would like to have a well-rounded case before going in. They’ve said they really don’t want to lose me but they don’t seem to want to do much to build better relations after a tough couple years.

    1. BellyButton*

      Do you have the original job description or a role charter? Can you put together a comparison of what you were hired to do and the reality?

    2. ferrina*

      This isn’t the advice you asked for, but truth is- you can’t convince a jerk that they should pay fairly if you aren’t willing to walk. If they know you’re unlikely to change roles, they have no motivation to pay you more (a reasonable manager would have many reasons, but your manager doesn’t sound reasonable). Yes, they say don’t want to lose you, but so far they haven’t put their money where their mouth is. So they’re banking on you accepting being low-balled.

      Update your resume. Prepare your job description, and hand the boss both “as documentation that may help them in securing [you] compensation”. Sometimes that can spark some action- they realize that you are marketable and that you already have an updated resume, and have the documentation and skills to advocate for your career.

      At the same time, you need to start looking for other jobs. I can’t imagine that this is the only way that the company screws you over. I’ve been in your shoes several times, and the only thing that got me results was walking away.

    3. PollyQ*

      Even setting aside the issue of pay, a boss who won’t talk to you because you won’t like what he has to say is quite sucky, even if he doesn’t quite reach the 100% level of “your boss sucks.” You can try making a case based on the value of what you do and what it would cost to replace you, but I agree with @ferrina that you’ll probably have to leave to earn what you deserve and get a non-sucky boss.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      If you think the raise offer isn’t going to match new hire salaries, I would add in the argument that if new hires are being paid $X then you’re worth at least that, or really $X + Y given your experience with the company, because of what it would cost to replace you.

  78. RisRose*

    Any advice on purchasing a small business? From my limited research you need personal and business financial records to apply for an SBA loan. How does this work? If that is the case there is no way to get pre-approved for the loan without sensitive financial information from the business. Obviously I would want to go over the financials before purchasing, but I don’t want to waste mine or the business owner’s time if the loan won’t be approved. This is so different from buying a house!

    1. A business librarian*

      My rec is to locate the Small Business Center/Small Business Development Center/Small Business & Technology Development Center in your area–you can get free or low cost advice on many small-business-land topics and also they will probably connect you to additional resources and organizations in your area for more support.

    2. LuckySophia*

      I own a small business but have never bought or sold one. I did get a business loan to purchase an office building; as I recall the bank wanted to see a Balance Sheet, Annual Income Statement (maybe for 3 years?) and 3 years of tax returns.

      I googled “small-business valuations” and there are a lot of helpful articles explaining common methods for doing valuations. Really, it sounds like you should ask your accountant or bank to refer you to someone with expertise in business valuations, just so they can explain the process to you. But…if the seller has an asking price in mind, wouldn’t it be the seller’s responsibility to obtain a business valuation to justify the asking price? After which your expert(s) (accountants, bankers, whomever) would assess the valuation and determine if it’s reasonable, or too high, or whatever.

    3. OyHiOh*

      As someone else said, go to your local SBDC office. Hopefully, you’ll have a good one that can give you strong counseling on how to evaluate the business you’re considering buying. If you get a handwave and some version of we can’t help you, look up your state SBDC office (there’s an office in every state that governs the local offices) and talk with them.

      In general, before applying for a loan, you’d want to ask for P&L reports for the past three years (shows trends better than a balance sheet, which is a snapshot in time), three years of business tax returns, and an annual income statement.

      If they are careful, not desperate, business owners, they may ask for 3 years of your personal tax returns as a show of good faith.

      Very often, when applying for SBA loans, 3 years of personal AND business tax returns are part of your application package, and if you’re applying for an SBA loan as part of your purchase mechanism, your personal finances and their business finances (and possibly THEIR personal finances, depending on the precise loan being applied for) are all going to find their way into a single packet, along with collateral statements, possibly life insurance policies (frequently used as collateral), and various others. Some SBA loan packets run 50 – 60 pages or more and that really depends on the type of loan, as well as the bank that will be servicing the loan so start with your SBDC office and go from there.

    4. Carpe Manana*

      RisRose, this is what I do for a living so am hoping that I can hopefully provide the highlights on what the process looks like.

      Typically, you’ll begin your process by looking at the online businesses-for-sale market places. The best tends to be BizBuySell.com. If a business interests you, there will be a link to reach out to the broker or business owner. In almost all instances, they’ll ask you to fill out an NDA. If they ask for a personal profile (often with a request for your high-level financial info), this is normal. Brokers have a duty to their selling clients to minimize over-exposing their business.

      Once the NDA/Profile is sent back, they should send you a Seller’s Memorandum. This will contain the name of the business; overview of the business; recent history; details on employees (titles, salaries, length with the business, duties, etc); a summary of financials, what the seller’s role and duty in the business is, etc.

      A business’ price is most frequently derived from the cash flow, and it’s typically a multiple of cash flow X 2.5 to 3.1 You want to look and see how consistent sales and cash flow are. If there’s been any major spikes, could it be due to a one-time event (some businesses went gangbusters during the pandemic, but now are showing signs of returning to their pre-pandemic levels); how steady are COGS, and is the value transferable. In terms of the latter, do they have a strong bench, how reliant is the business on the owner/seller, etc., what are the national trends for this industry; if the local trends aren’t conforming to national trends, can the broker explain why? Does this make sense or is that particular geographical market experiencing a lag time?

      Once it meets your initial criteria, you’ll want to communicate with the broker about next steps. If applicable, you might want to go on a secret shopper visit (respecting all the dictates of the NDA), and coordinate with the broker an after-hours with the owner. The purpose here is not to negotiate with the Seller, but to get more detail to fill in some of the color.

      You like everything you’ve learned, and want to go further. Brokers will vary, but we allow solid prospective buyers to take a deep dive into the financials to make sure that the presented cash flow analysis vets out before they tender an offer. Others only release such information after an executed Letter of Intent (LOI) is in place. In the instance of the latter, you might explain to the Broker that you would like to submit your LOI with a pre-qual letter to make your offer all the stronger.

      Most business loans are going to be financed through the SBA so you want to find an express SBA lender. You may have a good relationship with your own bank, or the broker might have some loan originators they can recommend. I’ve gone through hell and back with loans, so I have my go-to lenders who I know will get the job done and coach the buyers through the process. It never hurts to get a few quotes. I’m seeing a huge range interest rates and bank fees these days.

      You make an offer. To offer under the asking price, you don’t have to beat up the business. Counterproductive. The seller can accept, counter, or reject.

      Once an LOI is in place, you will need to tender an earnest deposit. This can range from $10K to as much as $100K, depending on the size of the business. You will need to hire an attorney to work on the Business Asset Purchase Agreement (the LOI is non-binding; the Asset Purchase Agreement or APA is binding and much more detailed.) Concurrently, you’re going to work on your loan. Expect tons of paperwork to fill-out along with supporting documentation (Bank Account Statements, Personal Tax Return, Paystubs, for both you and your partner, if applicable, debt schedule, etc.

      A good loan originator will package your and the business’ financials and identify and address any issues so that the package will “sail” through underwriting. Keep in mind that the originator and underwriter are at cross-purposes. An originator wants to find every reason to say “yes”; an underwriter is looking for any reason to say “no.” A good loan originator will help you be aware of all the pitfalls to avoid.

      At a minimum, you will be asked to provide 10% to 15% buyer equity injection, e.g., this percent of the Asking Price plus loan costs. Put this money into a separate bank account and let it just sit there. This, because you’re going to have to account for all the source of these funds, e.g., they can’t be gifts, can’t be from loans, etc.) Doing this makes it easier.

      You have a couple of layers of protection. Your first line of defense is the underwriter. If the business’ price is out of line with the cash flow it generates, your loan won’t make it through underwriting and you can back and negotiate the price. A bank’s primary criteria is Debt Service Calculation Ratio. If it does make it through underwriting, then the bank will send it out for a third-party professional valuation. Rather than DSCR, they’re looking at what other businesses in that industry sold for, and how this one compares. If this arms-length valuation comes in lower than the asking price, that is another opportunity to go back and re-negotiate at the price.

      Once the APA is executed and you have a commitment letter from the bank, this opens the way for a) Opening negotiations with the landlord; and b) the possibility of meeting with the key employees, depending on if the Seller is amenable to this. Some will not breathe a word of this to their employees until after the sale closes and the deal is in the bag. Employees frequently think that a “new broom sweeps clean,” meaning a change in ownership will jeopardize their position in the company. Rarely is that the case, but it’s hard to counter program this perception.

      How long does the process take from an LOI is signed until Closing? Three months minimum, but four months is not uncommon.

      Sorry for the long email, but I swear I’m only hitting the highlights. We have what I think is a very helpful and long White Paper for Sellers, but I think it’s also insightful for Business Buyers.

  79. A. Nony Moose*

    I’m interviewing someone for a job for the first time today – any tips? Normally my boss does this, I’ve sat in at a couple but not really participated myself, but she had something come up and the interviewee couldn’t reschedule so my boss asked me to cover it. My boss and I went over the stuff specific to our field/the position, and it’s just a preliminary interview so I’m not gonna be making the ultimate decision or anything, but I’m still a little – eep!

    1. Nathalie*

      Trust your instincts! The first time I assisted in an interview process, the interviewee gave great answers to all of the questions and seemed qualified, but I got a weird and somewhat off-putting vibe off of her. I figured that was just my own issue, so I didn’t mention it to my boss when she asked for my impressions. She got the job, and ended up being the most unbearable person I have ever worked with.

      1. ferrina*

        Trust, but also reflect on where those instincts are coming from. It’s normal for us to most closely connect with people who are like us- so ask yourself if that is coming from recognizing skills that are helpful to the job (strong customer service skills, asking good questions, prioritizing well), or just familiarity (like you have the same pets, same fashion sense, same sense of humor). If you’re offput because they are quiet and you are extroverted, well, is being outgoing part of the job? Are they quiet, or unapproachable?
        If you’re not sure where it’s coming from, still bring it up to your boss. “Hey, I got a weird vibe from this person that makes me really hesitant. I’m not sure where it’s coming from.” As a boss, I’d want to hear this and it will help me develop questions for the next stage of the interview.

        1. Nathalie*

          Oh yes, definitely! In my situation, both I and the interviewee were 20-something white ladies from similar backgrounds (though one reason I didn’t bring up the bad vibes was that part of it was that she seemed really pushy and I was worried that it was internalized misogyny on my side (as it turns out, it wasn’t, she was just an a-hole)). But being aware of potential biases is for sure an important part of interviewing.

    2. Chilipepper Attitude*

      Make a plan about how you will take notes! At my last workplace, everyone literally put their heads down and took copious notes. The interviewee could only see the tops of everyone’s heads. It was so bizarre!

      It can be really hard to take enough notes to share with your boss if you are the only one interviewing so just make a plan for that so you don’t feel awkward in the moment.

  80. Nathalie*

    I was thinking about the recent letter where someone suspected their coworker was self-harming because the other day I sliced the bejeezus out of my arm on a staple when breaking down a shipping box. The cut is right on the back of my wrist making it nearly impossible to wash my hands without getting the bandage wet, so I’ve been wearing a flesh-toned wristband over it to keep it in place all week and I’ve been so paranoid that everybody thinks I’ve been cutting!

    1. KoiFeeder*

      As someone who is quite clumsy and scars up easily, I have taken to using a somewhat mean tactic.

      “Oh, this? Yeah, I don’t know. Probably wasn’t a spider this time, that’s all I can tell you.”

      The mention of spiders immediately distracts people from whatever they were thinking of, and they rarely ask me again unless it actually does look like a spider bite. It’s been very effective!

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      You can preemptively tell people to “watch out for staples on boxes these days, i just got massively injured by one” or complain about it when you’re washing your hands “man I got eaten by one of those staple boxes and now this is such apain to wash around”.

    4. searching for a new name*

      I would almost never assume an injury is due to self-infliction? This seems like such a bizarre thing to worry about

      2. Nathalie*

        It’s not something I would have thought twice about until the letter “I’m worried my coworker might be self-harming” from last week…

      3. fhqwhgads*

        I think the concern came due to the location of the injury in question? Not that any random box-opening injury might look like self-harm.

  81. Friday, get your Friday here!*

    My mentee made a false claim against a worker from another company that we are jointly working on a project with. He did it in order to delay the next project meeting because he hadn’t finished the thing he was supposed to and now he’s completely embarrassed his manager and our company. I’m so disappointed.

    (Since I’m sure it will be asked: He said an employee from the other company called him a name in the elevator. He’s Deaf and Mute so no way he could have spoken to my mentee. My mentee admitted they never even interacted when confronted with the fact that this person can’t speak.)

    2. kiki*

      Oh wow. That’s a pretty huge lack of judgment. Do you know how his manager will react? And have you spoken to him? Did your mentee explain why he thought making a false accusation would be a better plan than asking for an extension?

      1. Friday, get your Friday here!*

        I’m off work this week so I have only heard about this from the lead for the mentor/mentee program. He was walked out the next day so I’ll never get a chance to ask what he was thinking.

    3. PollyQ*

      WOWWW! Forget embarrassment, I would call that a firing offense. IDK if you have any say as to what happens as his mentor, but I’d recommend you say to cut him loose, if you’re asked. That’s not just a “new to workplace norms error,” it’s a severe lack of character. (Also, accusing someone who can’t speak of name-calling is the most delightful speed-round karma I’ve ever heard of.)

      1. Friday, get your Friday here*

        He was let go the next day. I’m off this week so I only heard about it after the fact. But the project meeting where he made the accusation was off site and he was walked out the next day when he came to work.

        I’m disappointed in him, and that he did this and gave ammo to the crying wolf and hate crimes are fake crowd. That real complaints might be less likely because of him.

    4. FashionablyEvil*

      Whoa, that’s a lot. How close are you to the mentee? I would ask him why he thought that making something up (about another person!!) was an appropriate response to a project delay and help him figure out ways to deal with situations like this in the future.

      I really hope he’s appropriately mortified and never does it again, because, wow, that is a serious lack of judgment.

      1. Friday, get your Friday here!*

        He was walked out the day after the project meeting was supposed to happen. I’m off this week so I won’t get a chance to see him and ask just what he was thinking.

    5. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I know it’s cliché for workplace advice to be “fire the sod,” but this is something I would have zero tolerance for and would encourage the same here. False allegations can really mess up a person’s life.

    6. AnotherLibrarian*

      Wowzer. That’s a shocking and troubling lack of judgement. Not much else to say to that.

  82. ticked off for new hire*

    This is mostly a vent tbh, but im trying to channel it into usefulness so PSA: when you’re training a new hire, especially when remote, give them some grace. If you’re having trouble communicating effectively with them, try different tactics on YOUR end before you conclude they’re just not trying and gossip about it to your coworkers ffs!!

    Context: The other day my coworker called me to tell me how terrible the new hire was doing, complete with a blow-by-blow account of what was clearly a misunderstanding on the new hire’s part, and concluded dramatically that the new hire must be deliberately not working / “quiet quitting.” Coworker had one idea of how to adjust communication which they hadn’t tried yet but thought might help — that was the only useful information they had to share, and I really didn’t need the whole tirade for context. I’m not a manager, I said you should tell our manager this not me.

    Friends, less than 24 hours later my coworker was raving about how well the new hire was doing after this simple adjustment. Telling the manager how smart and fast the new hire is, no mention of their suspicions. I’m flabbergasted at how easily this person jumped to “tell my coworkers the new hire is committing fraud” before even waiting to see if the easy adjustment helped. And this is a person who sees themself as really empathetic, too! The mind reels.

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Are you sure he hadn’t spoken to the manager (as recommended by your colleague) in the meantime? This seems to me more of an “overcorrection”.

      1. ticked*

        Sure, they could’ve. (I’m the one who recommended that, there’s no third colleague.) It has no bearing on how completely inappropriate the first conversation was.

  83. In a comfort zone*

    Another day, another “Am I doing my family a disservice by not maximizing my compensation.” I am a senior software developer in Seattle, not the Bay Area but nevertheless a high cost of living area. One of my coworkers left a few months ago for almost double the pay (like, an 80% raise in terms of total compensation, stock grants and whatnot) at one of the many large tech companies in the area. I already get paid more than enough for my family to have everything they need and practically everything they want. But I have been at the same employer for more than six years, they’ve kept my salary up with inflation, but even if I don’t get a Big Tech job, I could probably get a pretty big raise without working more hours if I went out and found a new employer. I’ve never been one to switch jobs every two years like clockwork, even though “they” say it’s the best way to maximize your income.

    1. In a comfort zone*

      I forgot to say, I was reading a thread on reddit the other day, and people were acting like you are some kind of idiot if you work for less than $300k to $600k as an experienced software professional. A few people said $200k is OK if you are in the middle of nowhere. I am making less than $200k in the greater Seattle area. The only reasons we have practically everything we want is because of our relatively (vs. some) modest wants, and that we bought our house ten years ago when the market was at a low point.

      1. Decidedly Me*

        I know a lot people in tech in the Seattle area and those figures are just not true…. Not saying people can’t make that (I know at least one in that range, but there is a lot that went into making that happen), but that is by no means what is normal, even in Seattle.

        Ignore Reddit ;)

        2. Roland*

          I wonder if they mean total comp, in which case 300-600 starts to be pretty believable. Obviously it isn’t true talking just salary though.

      2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        I think some of those numbers are inflated. I’ve got 25+ years of experience, and I make good money in an average cost-of-living area in the Midwest – by no means the middle of nowhere – and $200k is more than any of the dozen devs at my company make.

    2. ferrina*

      No, you’re not morally bankrupt for not min-maxing the profit on your labor. You say your family is quite comfortable and has all they need. Well, then I’d say you’ve met your moral obligation. You’re not morally obligated to make sure your family is rich.

      1. In a comfort zone*

        The other aspect is that my employer’s products have a positive effect on society. My previous employer was decent, but by the time I left, our jobs were pretty much reduced to monetizing, adding ads that didn’t look like ads to our popular website.

    3. Decidedly Me*

      If you’re happy with your job and salary, I see no need to switch just because you could get a higher salary. Happiness matters too!

    4. kiki*

      I don’t think you’re doing anyone a disservice by not maximizing your compensation. I think it may be worthwhile to keep your eyes out for any jobs that interest you and that you think could get you a big pay increase without more hours/stress/etc, but staying at one job that pays enough is totally great. Stability and comfort are huge and can be beneficial to quality of life in a way that salary can’t fully make up for.

    5. Irish Teacher*

      ” I already get paid more than enough for my family to have everything they need and practically everything they want.”

      I think this line answers your question. If they have all they need, then no, you are not doing them a disservice. If your kids were going hungry or you were at risk of homelessness or your kids lacked what they needed for school, there might be an argument that you should take a higher paying role if possible, but if they have all they need, then there is no problem.

      And income isn’t the only benefit to your family. Your family benefit from you being happy and satisfied too. If you are happy with your current job, that may also benefit your relationships with those around you.

      1. In a comfort zone*

        One of my kids said I a stay at home parent because I get to WFH so I am always around to help them get food, answer homework questions, etc. But it also takes a good work/life balance to be able to do that without falling behind on my job expectations.

  84. Anon (Canada)*

    I was mislead on a new job. So I’m job searching again. I’m still working at new job. Should I list it on my resume? (to show I do have a current job)

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      If you only just started, I wouldn’t. If you’ve been there a while, like 6+months then yes, but if you’re still a new hire then at this point you haven’t accomplished anything, there wouldn’t really even be anything for you to put on your resume about it.

      Alison has some good advice about this type of situation in the archives, I’d check there!

  85. Is it me or the graphics?*

    Question about graphics! Is it normal to redesign everything every few years? My nonprofit is on its fourth logo in about 15 years. I would think that keeping the brand would lead to recognition; not to mention the cost of redoing everything. Am I just being inflexible/old-fashioned? The previous logo worked okay in black and white and on social media etc, the leadership just wanted update…

    Related question: Is that a normal trend I am unaware of to set up the templates to have a logo to the left even the name of the document is centered? Eg, bold “Proposal for Llama Watering Hole” is centered, while the logo at the top header is aligned to the left. It hurts my brain to see it…

    Thanks for any input.

    1. Emm*

      I thinks it’s common. Whether it’s sensible is another question. I’ve worked a few places where this happened a lot, mostly because a new manager came in and didn’t like the old branding or wanted something different; and naturally, as soon as the new logo was printed on everything, they left and the whole cycle started again.

      4 logos in 15 years actually doesn’t sound that bad to me, especially considering how quickly trends change nowadays. Something from a few years back could easily read as outdated. But I agree, it can confuse people and lead to waste (of time, money, and leftover products! We have so many Old Logo mugs…)

    2. RagingADHD*

      Both of those things – the left-aligned letterhead and an update from time to time sound normal.

      Four total redesigns in 15 years sounds a bit much, but it’s pretty common to update the design slightly while keeping the font and colors, or update the font and colors while keeping the basic logo shape, etc.

      Generally, I see left-aligned letterhead use a “masthead” format for the address and possibly the board members listed all down the side. The left margin is therefore deeper than usual, and the headings are either all left-aligned to the margin, or centered between the deep left margin and the normal right margin.

      1. Is it me or the graphics?*

        Thank you, RagingADHD! To clarify, this is not a letterhead, just a document. And unfortunately the logos have everything new, color, font, shape… But it’s helpful to know that it’s common :-)

    3. The Prettiest Curse*

      Neither of those things sound unusual to me. I formerly worked for a large national nonprofit in the US and they are now on their 3rd logo in 10-ish years.

    4. Ama*

      If they are complete and total redesigns every time then four times in 15 years is a lot, if it’s just a slight update to the logo (new font, maybe making the secondary color a little more prominent) but the letterhead/powerpoint, etc. templates are getting updated then, no that sounds pretty normal. The nonprofit I work for has had the same basic logo/color palette for about 15 years and is just now starting a major project to potential update our branding, but we have been through about three different letterhead templates, and half a dozen powerpoint templates in that time just to keep up with best practices, being more mindful of accessibility, etc.

      I don’t think having a logo to the left is that uncommon but I think we all have our own private design pet peeves. I personally hate how so many supposedly “flexible” websites are really optimized for mobile, leading to far too much white space on larger devices, but I’ve come to accept that I’m not going to win that particular battle.

  86. Struggling Teammate*

    I serve on the board of directors for an athletic team that is run as an LLC (so, technically a business, though not one anyone is making any money off us.) It’s run by volunteers who also play on the team.

    We’ve had difficulty recently with a player who also holds a leadership position. Without trying to bog this down too much with specific details, this player has come into conflict with multiple people to the point that their actions are significantly harming the league.

    It’s come to our attention (through a friend of this player who frequently advocates on their behalf) that a lot of this may be due to severe anxiety in situations of conflict.

    We want to be sensitive to that possibility. No official request for accommodation has been made. As a group of volunteers, we’re all super ill-equipped to even know how to handle an ADA request for anxiety even if one was to be made.

    Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing or know of any good resources?

    1. RagingADHD*

      It was completely inappropriate for a third party to talk to you about your “employee’s” mental health, and this in no way constitutes any kind of request for accommodation. Even if there were a request for accommodation, reasonable accommodation does not equal giving someone a pass for bad behavior or damaging the business. From the way your question is worded, the player wouldn’t be in situations of conflict if they weren’t starting conflicts themselves. So the whole comment about “anxiety in situations of conflict” is specious.

      You should address the behavior and its impact on others & the team according to the official policies for player behavior. If you don’t have official policies for acceptable/unacceptable behavior, or how to discipline players, or how to address unacceptable behavior amongst leadership, that is a serious issue in your governance structure. You should address that ASAP and get it sorted out.

    2. Jazz*

      I have also served on the board of directors of an athletic team! Cheers – that seems so rare. So yes, I have dealt with this. And as a board, your LLC/team needs to have standards in place for how to handle when there is conflict. You can assign this to a committee, the board can hold the responsibility, whatever, but you need to put codes of conduct in place that you can reference and stick to when you have an issue. In addition, you need to be talking with this person directly about what is happening between them and others and how it’s affecting the team and players, and not making or jumping on assumptions that others may have. It’s not great for a board to be operating on hearsay or getting other players or people involved before actually handling the issue directly.
      My athletic team’s board had to handle a grievance once by a player who had been harmed by another player. The player who harmed this person told people on the board that it had been worked out, and members of my committee actually believed this instead of talking directly to the person who had brought the grievance. This destroyed trust throughout the entire team. Do not destroy trust by trying to solve this with assumptions, talking about a person’s conflicts or mental health with their friends, or without talking to everyone involved and gathering all the relevant info. You can always contract an outside party for advice or guidance on this if your LLC is not actually equipped to handle this.

      1. Jazz*

        To clarify, when I said “without talking to everyone involved and gathering all the relevant info” I meant as in performing an investigation with folks there have been conflicts with, so you can address that with the difficult person in question, or mediate any issues with others that you might need to mediate. NOT as in ‘talk to everyone around, about this person, as in gossiping’.

  87. EngineerGradStudent*

    TL:DR Tips on making the most of a phone screen even if it probably won’t be a good fit?

    I’m a PhD student set to graduate next year and I have just started to scratch the surface of a job search. I went to a career fair for information gathering and to my surprise one of the companies asked me to do a virtual interview next week for a process engineer position (they know my degree level and graduation date). Looking at the role I don’t think it would be a great fit (more manufacturing focused when I want to stay in research) but I figured going through with the interview can’t hurt and I might be surprised. I haven’t interviewed for Real Jobs since being in the service industry in high school so I’m probably a little rusty. Any thoughts or tips on making the most of information gathering/getting a better feel for the role?

    1. ecnaseener*

      I think one thing that would be helpful is to probe for any information that could change your mind. What could the interviewer tell you that would make you think this is actually a great fit? Ask about those things.

      1. ecnaseener*

        (In case it’s not clear – I think that’s a way to make this a good practice experience for you. You probably won’t hear anything that makes you change your mind!)

        1. EngineerGradStudent*

          Oooh that’s a good angle that I will be thinking about, thanks! And yeah, I figured if nothing else hopefully this will be good practice before I try to go for the “dream job” interviews

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      What’s a typical day like in this role?

      How will you measure success in this role?

      What do you hope the person in the role can achieve in their first 6 months?

      How long do people tend to stay in this position, is there promotions from here, or do people stay in it for life, etc.

  88. Trixie*

    HR folks, thinking of moving from high-level HR executive assistant role to a business partner role within our organization. I don’t see that a Master’s is required but BP certification required. Oddly, it doesn’t specific certification from where. A team member recently completed one from an outfit for ~$300, versus SHRM or other.

    My questions are does any BP certification add true value, and what attributes or experience adds to a solid candidate for BP?

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      A SHRM certification would be a good and studying for it would be a great way to learn broad HR knowledge that you would need as an HRBP. I personally never got one but didn’t need it to break into a role. And SHRM is really the only certification that is widely known and respected.

      As for attributes and/or experiences, it is hard to say. The HRBP role can vary greatly by organization. At some companies HRBPs help with recruiting and compensation, at others they work on talent strategy. Sometimes they do investigations sometimes they don’t. But more broadly, they need to have strong, broad HR expertise, are able to collaborate effectively, able to push back on executives, should be analytical and understand organizational dynamics. Best of luck to you!

      1. Trixie*

        Appreciate it, thank you. And I should note a correction to my original post, BP certification is “preferred” but not required. From the outside, it appears HRBP has more room for growth/movement than an EA within my organization.

  89. Government employer*

    One comment about remote interviewing based on one I just finished (as the employer). For a purely secular job, it’s probably not a good idea to do the interview from the sanctuary of your church with the altar behind you.

    Just saying…

      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Because it brings religion into the interview which is solely a distraction and does not benefit their candidacy. You don’t want the interview remembering you for your background (whatever it is), you want them remembering you for your expertise.

        1. Sunshine*

          I guess so, but isn’t it on the interviewer not to let themselves be distracted by something like that? You could say the same thing about someone wearing a particularly loud shirt or having a dog running around in the background. I agree it’s an odd choice of an interview location, but that’s common in the days of Zoom interviews. I don’t think that should influence someone’s candidacy one way or another, especially if they’ve sold their skills well in the interview.

          1. Roland*

            > You could say the same thing about someone wearing a particularly loud shirt or having a dog running around in the background

            Well, yeah, one shouldn’t do those things either.

    2. Llellayena*

      The location and exact positioning is not ideal, but it is definitely a quiet space that probably has very good wifi. That’s probably all the candidate was thinking about.

      1. Free Meerkats*

        Good wifi and quiet, sure. But there would be so many more angles that could be used that would put a blank wall behind the interviewee. And if it’s one of those churches with iconography on every flat surface, there’s a blurred or virtual background.
        This strikes me as performative religion, done for the sake of appearances, to show one is a “good person”.

    3. RagingADHD*

      I can think of several reasons why a secular *employer* shouldn’t have an altar in view during an interview. But I can only think of one reason why a candidate should worry about it, if it’s a convenient location.

      That one reason is in the same category as telling people not to let their wheelchair, a picture of their kids, or a wedding ring be visible in the interview.

      And it doesn’t reflect well on you.

    4. 123Anonyphant*

      I mean, if I had a candidate doing an interview from a church, I would probably assume either that they were experiencing homelessness or they had some logistical issue (home internet was down, can’t take a job interview from a cube farm in the middle of the work day) and the church was the only place they could find with good wifi that was quiet enough to do an interview. I wouldn’t even necessarily assume they belonged to that church.

    5. Specialized Skillets*

      I’m in local government and I totally agree with you. It makes me think that person won’t understand why we can’t put up Christmas decorations or tell citizens to “have a blessed day” or what have you.

    6. BadCultureFit*

      I agree completely with you here and am rolling my eyes hard at the others who responded to you.

      Obviously this candidate could’ve found an unassuming background in a church, and I would find it telling that they didn’t.

  90. germank106*

    I work as part of a team of teapot makers. Several of us also have specialized knowledge in certain aspects of teapot making. We take turns as project leaders depending on the specialized knowledge required for each project (i.e. blue teapot designs are led by one person, red teapot designs by another). The team members that don’t specialize in anything have supporting roles for each project.
    A new teapot maker without any specialized knowledge joined our team about three months ago. They have a Masters in an unrelated field, but have spent hours watching movies about teapot making and looking at pictures of teapots.
    When a project leader distributes the work at the beginning of each project, this person often complains that they are not being given a more challenging part of the project because they have a Masters degree and the project leader doesn’t. They have gone so far as to sent e-mails to our Grand Boss asking to be given the role of project leader. Grand Boss asked them how they would lead the project for green teapots and shut them down fairly quickly when it became apparent that they did not have the knowledge required to lead the team. However, they still complain and refuse to do the work they are assigned because it is beneath them. The team leaders have escalated this to our manager, but were told to give the employee time to get used to how the team works. We work under very tight deadlines and other team members have to pick up the employees slack when she does not turn in her part of the project on time or simply refuses to do that. Is there any verbiage we can use to make our manager understand what a problem this is?

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Document specific instances (I’ve found a modified version of the STAR interview technique works well for this: what was the situation, what was the task, what was their action, what response was required from you/team in order to remediate) and put it in concrete terms to the manager.

      Is the Grand Boss the same person as the manager the TLs escalated it to? It may be that they already know she’s full of hot air and are just giving her the opportunity to show it…

      1. germank106*

        No, grandboss is two steps above the manager. I’m not even sure that the manager was informed that the employee complained to grandboss and that he shut her down. The job is 100% remote so every communication is in writing or via Zoom. We have listed specific instances before and received the “just give her time” response. I really don’t want to delay a project because of her but maybe that’s what it’ll take to get the point across that more time is not going to fix things.

    2. Free Meerkats*

      This is a case where you need to assign the duties, let them complain, let them not do the job, and let the project fail/fall behind schedule because the duties are beneath them. Document every step of the process. People get away with this crap because the others cover for them; stop covering their ass.

      You’ve already brought it up to your ineffective manager, now let them have to explain why something didn’t get done on time.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Yes, the team needs to stop covering even though it could mean missing deadlines. As the deadline approaches, email this person and cc up the chain asking when they plan to complete their tasks, as their part is holding everyone up until it’s done.

        Make it clear that they can’t just refuse to do their job without consequences, and make sure it’s well documented what you all have tried to do to work with them.

  91. The Questioner of Normalcy*

    Is it safe to email a password as .txt attachment? (This is not “change the password after” situation). Thank you.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Safest is to have them reset it on their end to something they can change (forward the reset link to them if they can’t trigger it). I’ve sent them in emails a couple times for things like shared netflix logins but I wouldn’t do that for anything needing more security (bank, etc). Also if you must share it via email, make sure that same password isn’t used on any other accounts associated with either email.

      https://haveibeenpwned.com/ is legit, you can see if your email or phone has been in any leaks. It’ll tell you what sites too.

    2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I wouldn’t do it. It’s possible it’d be safe if it were encapsulated in an encrypted email, but parameters around that are so inconsistent that I have a hard time trusting them.

    3. ferrina*

      Usually no. If the password only works in combination with a certain link or user name that isn’t guessable and is not shared via email, you’re probably safe.
      My favorite method was to send a link via email, then the password via text (with absolutely no context on the text, just the password)

    4. beach read*

      No. Never ever provide your password to anyone in any situation. You would rather be on the side of caution than the side of culpable.

  92. Dancethenightaway*

    Y’all, Ive been burning the candle at both ends for over a year now and have never wanted to quit a job so badly.

    I took this job just over a year ago. Since then, our entire project team has turned over – some quit for better jobs, some just left because they cant deal with stress. Some developed health issues. But management doesnt care – they are still pushing ridiculous deadlines and not replacing staff.

    I was planning to quit earlier this summer – but my partner got laid off unexpectedly. They have not been able to find a new role.

    I have developed health issues and currently super sick – but yet here i am, unable to take time off. Cant even take a vacation without fear of how far behind i will be when i get back.

    Im applying and landing interviews but im scared of finding myself in a similar situation (dsyfunctional company with unrealistic standards). I want to take a step back as well and just have a job that we can get by on. We have savings but it wont last forever.

    Ive already exhausted my EAP benefit as well.

    No questions just needed to unload. Thanks for reading.

    1. ferrina*

      Hugs and love! I am so sorry! I hope you feel better and can get out soon! While you interview, trust your gut. Walk away if you aren’t sure about a place. And when you do start a new job, get a couple weeks between Old Job and New Job. You need it so you can be your best at New Job.

      If you are up for a light lift, I’d talk to your doctor. They might know of a way to get you on FMLA to help get you some breathing room.

      1. Dancethenightaway*

        Thank you so much for the kind thoughts and suggestions. I have been considering FMLA and will talk to my doctor about different options.

  93. MidwesternEnnui*

    I’ve been doing a part-time job managing a weekly event since December. It’s been fraught–the organization is very badly run, I got no training, and I’m really the one holding the whole thing together–like once I asked what would happen if I were sick for the event, and my boss chuckled nervously. The job is mostly onsite at the event, but I do about 3-4 hours of remote admin work for it every week. I was offered a pretty fantastic opportunity in my chosen field out of the blue, which will take me out of state for the last month of this job/event. I am going to take it–it pays better, it’s prestigious and it’s in line with my career goals. I’m wondering the best way to let my boss know. I can do the admin work easily while I’m out of state, but they will need to find someone who can be onsite for a month. Should I offer to do the admin work? Try to make a clean break? I am giving them a month’s notice. I feel really guilty, but I also know that it’s not my fault that the organization is run the way it is. I really like my boss and the other owners of the event, so I want to help as much as I can.

    1. ferrina*

      Yay! Congrats on your new opportunity! And I love that your question isn’t Should I do this? but How should I do this?

      How much will you reasonably be able to take on? If this is a new job, I might be inclined to just step away altogether. New jobs are always exhausting, regardless of how wonderful they are. No matter what you do, hold firm! Don’t give your manager any reason to think that you’d be there. (so don’t use any softening language like “I’d love to if only…”, because they could see it as “I will if you can…”) Good luck!

      1. MidwesternEnnui*

        Thank you! The opportunity is basically a fellowship where I’ll have a lot of self-directed time. I can do the admin work in my sleep at this point, so I guess I was thinking it would soften the blow to offer it–but maybe it’s better to make a clean break.

        1. Philosophia*

          If the admin work is part and parcel of managing the event, you’re probably not doing the organization any favor by holding on to it. Your successor will need to be able to take care of both the on-site and the off-site tasks. Document the admin work that you can do in your sleep (if your current employer will give you enough time in your workday) and put it behind you. Good luck in the new position!

  94. SP*

    I work as a UX/UI designer for a tech company. I was hired about a year and a half ago as a contractor. I like everything about this arrangement- the work is interesting (and easy), the people are pleasant and competent, and it’s great to have such a flexible schedule.

    I’d like to raise my hourly rate, but I’m not how to approach this. My contract was written and provided by the company, and they set my rate in that contract. (“Company agrees to pay Contractor at the rate of $X per hour for each hour of Services rendered.”) I’d appreciate any tips for negotiating a rate increase!

  95. MuseAnne*

    I’ve been in my position for over 15 years. It was my first job out of grad school, in a competitive but low paying field. It’s a state job with good benefits and good insurance. I have loads of autonomy (maybe too much), and lax supervision. I could probably ride out the rest of my career here and be fairly fulfilled, but not have any opportunity for real advancement. I’m about to have a second round interview for a different position (same field), but with lower responsibility and possibly slightly higher pay (a state job in a different state). The environment would offer more opportunities for advancement, but I wouldn’t have as much autonomy. But I’m also assuming I’d have less stress. So…

    How do you know when it’s time to move from one good thing onto the next (probably) good thing?

  96. StellaBella*

    I love the new design!

    I have a work question for the commenters here: when you travel who takes care of your pets? I am looking at a website called Trusted House and Pet Sitters and I have a cat sitter. But I would like someone to be in my apartment as I will be gone 4 weeks for work. Ideas? I have asked about 12 friends so far if they know folks so that may pan out.

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      I had to leave my pets behind for about 4 weeks in my house and had my long-term and trusted pet sitter come by twice a day. I also set up security cameras in the house so I could keep an eye on them. My pet sitter was awesome and would spend extra time as she knew the situation and took great care of them. I totally know the stress you are feeling. Talk to your pet sitter and see what they recommend.

      You may also want to look at boarding them. I had to do that in the new location as I didn’t have a trusted pet sitter and was going to be gone for two weeks. I found one that was awesome. They had a building just for cats, I could take in their favorite cat bed and food. They offered enrichment activities (play, brushes, catnip, etc.) and sent daily photos and videos.

    2. BellyButton*

      I asked one of the young vet techs at my vet clinic if she was willing to stay at my house for the 4 weeks I was going to be gone. It has worked out great! You might call your vet and ask if anyone is interested.

    3. merp*

      jumping off the comment about vet techs, if there is a university with a veterinary program near you, that can also be a place to ask!

    5. Roland*

      For 4 weeks, depending on the pet, I’d definitely opt for a sitter over someone that only comes by once or twice a day. Done it twice with strangers from the internet and it went fine. I talked to them on zoom and felt they would be a good match. If you live in a reasonably desirable location and your place is reasonably nice you could probably get some to do it for free – that’s what I did. Ofc a professional with more reviews and experience, insurance, whatever might give more peace of mind.

  97. it's just my name*

    Looking for some advice or just commiseration. My coworkers seem to be subconsciously avoiding calling on me during our standup meetings, and I think it’s because of my name.

    For context, our stand-ups are done “popcorn style,” where one person gives their updates and then picks the next person to go, and so on. I almost always get called on last or next-to-last, and my (very strong) hunch is that it’s because people are uncomfortable with pronouncing my name. My name is ethnic and not intuitive, but not at all hard to pronounce once you learn (it’s the same difficulty as “Christine”). I had 1:1s with everyone when I started where I shared how to pronounce my name, but people still seem, at least subconsciously, uncomfortable with it.

    I’ve tried to make it easier on people by having the phonetic pronunciation of my name available on all of our communication platforms (Slack display name, email signature, etc.), but it’s not helping. We’re completely remote so I can’t pull people aside to talk about it in person, and I don’t feel comfortable yet calling it out publicly in our group video calls.

    It’s starting to make me feel resentful, so I want to do something about it instead of just accept it, but I’m out of ideas. I’d appreciate any advice or stories about similar experiences others have had.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Are people mispronouncing it? If so you could easily start your turn by going hey while we’re here I wanted to help everyone out with pronouncing my name its __+__+__ .

      Actually maybe just start your turn by saying “I’m ___ and this week my updates were”. If your manager comments at all your can tell him/her what’s going on.

      I’m in academia now and we’re pretty comfortable admitting we are struggling with names, just too many different cultures. My “Hi I’m Disney” to new people has been responded to multiple times with “Dis-what? Would you mind saying that again, I’m bad at names” and its not offensive.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Is this something you can talk to your manager one-on-one about? Or a trusted co-worker (also one-on-one)?

    3. Nicki Name*

      Your standup meetings suck and should be changed. If you need to do updates in random order (which appears to be what “popcorn style” is promoting) the facilitator can randomize them, or just go in order that the names appear on their screen, which is how it’s handled at my workplace.

      Dealing with tech people, I would ordinarily recommend bringing data, but in this case it seems like even odds you’d be seen as petty. Maybe talk to your scrum master about the issue first, and if they dismiss your concerns, come back with data? (e.g. “I was called on last 7 times out of the 10 standups since we spoke” or “You may have noticed that when there’s a choice of who to pick, only Emily and Joel are willing to pick me.”)

      1. Nicki Name*

        Whoops, I dropped a bit out of the middle, where I acknowledged that it sounds like you’re not in a position to call for the overall meeting process to be changed.

    4. ferrina*

      Is there a trusted coworker that can help you? Let them know what’s happening and see if they’ll call on you. Help them with your name, but if they mispronounce it, wait til after the call to correct them (so it’s not in a public setting).

      Otherwise, I’d start calling myself out in meetings. “ferrina here! Can I give my update next?” (I also included my name so folks can get used to hearing it).
      I’m sorry this is happening. It’s not fair and it sucks- your coworkers should get over their own awkward and call you by your name.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Do you have an “ally” in the stand up who you can discuss this with and get them to call on you in order to reinforce the name, or if they are talking after you then say something like “my update is fairly similar to ItsJustMyName’s – …”

      Is this in an agile/scrum setup; if so the scrum master or equivalent should be able to handle this.

  98. Anon for this one*

    Any help with a script on some co-workers’ behavior (and perhaps even narrowing down the actual problem a little bit)?

    Let’s say my department is made up of roles which can be vaguely described as “design” and “delivery”. I head the “delivery” team and Alan and Betsy are pretty senior within the “design” team, although all roles have an element of “design” and “delivery” to them.

    Alan and Betsy are, to be blunt, not team players. Betsy has refused to pick up tasks with words along the lines of “I don’t see how that would benefit me”. Alan is less direct but will either argue with anything he doesn’t want to do, regardless of whether it’s impractical or inconvenient for others in the team, or, if I’ve previously said no to things, will try and sneak things past. I know others on the team have raised similar concerns about Betsy but I’m not sure what the consensus is on Alan.

    For the most part, this is an annoying personal trait and the team is big enough to absorb it. But it becomes a problem when either they won’t do the delivery part of their roles or argue with me because I say delivery has to be carried out in a way that doesn’t suit them.

    This is made worse/complicated by Carl, who is head of “design” and makes frequent attempts to dictate how delivery tasks should be done so it best promotes his team’s interests and I think, either explicitly or implicitly, spreads the view that it’s ok to undermine or not listen to me. FWIW, I was recently promoted to my role in a restructure which effectively demoted both Alan and (to a lesser extent) Betsy (although it wasn’t phrased as a demotion for them, it was communicated as a promotion for me) and I’m also less experienced and less educated than the three of them – I do wonder how much of this is coming from a place that they don’t feel like my position is earned or deserved!!

    Not going to lie, on some days, this makes the job miserable. I’m actively searching for another role and this is a part of ‘why’. But, until I leave, I need a script for them which makes it clear that “I’m asking you to X for Y reason and I get the final call on Y” when I’m cautious there’s a risk of verging into an unhinged rant about how mean they are and how they should respect my authority. My boss has so far been willing to back me, provided I can clearly spell out why their behaviour is having a work impact and it’s not just ‘playground stuff’. Grandboss is less consistent in how much he backs me (I think because he sees this as ‘playground stuff’!). So scripts for that would also help.

    TIA

    1. ferrina*

      This needs to be escalated. It sounds like you don’t have any authority to address anything, and what authority you do have is being ignored. Your boss needs to step in.

      See if your boss can clarify ownership with Carl (and subsequently with Betsy and Alan). Who is responsible for what? If it’s a Betsy task, Betsy needs to do it. If you are project owner, Alan can’t sneak things past. Report any and all violations (and document it yourself, along with the work impact. Your boss needs to know how much extra time Betsy and Alan are costing you).

      I wouldn’t hold my breath, so I’m glad you’re looking to get out.

  99. Sheldon Cooper*

    I’m working in my annual development plan, and could use some advice on how to phrase something.

    My boss has been with the Company for nearly 30 years and still subscribes to some of the legacy management practices of holding everything super tight to his chest/not delegating/micromanaging. He’s not bad to work for, but when I see the responsibility that my peers have vs I have (we’re all directors), it’s a noticeable different. I’d like more autonomy, etc.

    How can I have that conversation?

    1. ferrina*

      Ask for one thing that you’d like to take ownership of. Tell your boss how regularly you’ll check in with him, so he knows he’ll still have full visibility of the project. Sometimes micromanagers do better when they know that they’ll still have control, they just won’t be doing the work.

      Unfortunately, this isn’t sustainable long term. This boss is stopping you from having the same experience and opportunities as your peers- your career will stall while you work for him. Think about how much time you’re willing to stay in the job, given that.

  100. ERG rant*

    I’m interim chair of an ERG that I’ve been involved with for years. This week, I’ve spent probably 10+ hours mostly doing admin work for the group: figuring out budget stuff, sending out calendar invites, etc.

    It’s frustrating on many levels- the company asks a lot of the group (and reaps the benefits of our work) but provides little support; there’s poor communication above me; the other ERG leaders are happy to do the sexy work but nobody wants to manage the budget or the website; I’m not getting paid or recognized for this work.

    All these things are why I only agreed to be interim chair, but it’s just so frustrating!

    Should I put “part time admin assistant” in my ERG budget request for next year? Joking, but actually.

    1. ferrina*

      As of [DATE], you won’t have bandwidth to continue taking on the full litany of tasks that you have been doing. It doesn’t really matter why you won’t have bandwidth- you just won’t (if you’ve been doing this on work time, try saying your workload won’t allow it). Pick what you are willing to do (and if it’s nothing, then do nothing!).
      Tell the group/company, giving a reasonable amount of time for them to have a transition plan. Have clear lists of what you will/won’t do. If that means that you need to step down as interim chair, that might need to be what you do. Makes sure that someone is clearly designated to continue (or that someone(s) is clearly responsible for selecting new people for responsibilities).

      Then when [DATE] comes, stop doing the task. This might mean that the ERG fails. This sucks. But your other option is to continue putting a lot of time into this indefinitely.

  101. LeftAcademia*

    Working part-time and HR.

    I work in a company outside US, that was originally a start-up. Twenty years later, there are a lot of employers but not really a HR department as such. Finances prepares our contracts, but that is about it.

    For family reasons, I was working 10 hours/week as a junior for junior pay when I joined 1,5 years ago. Six months I got a 60 percent raise to a senior level and increased to 20 hours/week. Starting next months it will be 30 hours/week, I will get official visit cards with title senior, and we are planning to hire my first direct report. Occasionally, I am needed for high-stakes time-sensitive tasks. In this case I work overtime. Our “HR” lady is not a fan of part-time and has informed my boss, that if I will be able to regularly work overtime, I should work more hours per week (to save “overtime” bonuses). We have agreed to monitor my hours for three months and reevaluate my contract.

    Where do I go from here?

    One of the reasons I decided to stay was because of flexibility.
    I am not interested in bonuses, but having small kids I am scared of commiting to more hours than I can handle in case of emergency.
    My boss knows I am not happy and will try to reduce my workload in peaceful times.
    His boss (one below CEO) is constantly borrowing me for said high-stakes tasks, but respects my boss and was willing to reduce my workload on his request.
    I was burned out in my previous job (academia) and would hate to experience it again.

    1. ferrina*

      Two things- 1. Be clear on workload, and monitor closely to make sure that you aren’t projected to go over your allotted hours. One trick is to have a low-stakes “backburner” project that you can do as you have time, but you will never need to work overtime (because it doesn’t have a deadline).
      2. Your boss needs to manage his staffing budget to include your projected overtime. He likely won’t know when you’ll need to work extra, but he knows it will happen and he likely has a sense of how often and how many hours. This should be included in his budget so HR can lay off.

      1. LeftAcademia*

        Thank you. Sounds like a reasonable plan. I suspect he can plan most of the tasks but not all of them.

  102. Blink*

    Software/scheduling app/something else recommendations please!

    I manage a team of 10 remote customer support agents across the EU, US, and ME, and we offer about 16-20 hours of support each day. I’d like to have an easy way to visualise and display our coverage hours, and be able to switch this display between the different time zones our clients are in.

    I could hash this out on a spreadsheet I’m sure, but I’m sure there must be a tool that I can plug everyone’s timezone and schedule into, and it can spit out a coverage map for me

    This is just to make my life easier, so ideally this would be a free tool. Any solutions/suggestions gratefully received!

  103. Taco Bell Job Fair*

    I had a job I thought was great for me. It was near where I lived and it was pretty easy work. I was let go this week because according to them there was “not enough foot traffic”. I’m really sad and POed about this. I keep asking “Why me? Was I really that terrible at my job?” The only places I can find work at are desperate badly managed places. That I end up leaving in 3 months or less out of frustration. My family suggested I go back to a department store I hated working at so much I quit there mid shift on the first day. That happened to be the day after Thanksgiving. I’m really stuck and don’t know what to do anymore.

    1. BellyButton*

      Have you considered a temp agency to do some office work? It will help you see what office work is like and you don’t need experience to do reception and a few other things.

    2. ferrina*

      First, let go of the old job. It sounds like it was more than 3 months ago. Being let go is horrible- I’ve been there- but that bitterness will come through in job interviews. As a hiring manager, we can tell when a candidate is POed at their former employer, and there’s no way that we can judge how justified it is (we just don’t have enough info). If we hire that person, will they feel slighted and take it out on my team? That’s not a risk a hiring manager can take. It’s okay to be disappointed, but handling it with grace will speak well for you (every hiring manager wants someone who can handle setbacks with grace)

      For jobs, I second BellyButton- temping is a great option. It gets you office experience (assuming that’s what you want to do) which will make you more hirable as you apply for full-time jobs. I’m a product of the Great Recession of Arthur Anderson, and myself and several of my cohorts used temping to get from retail to office jobs.

      Finally, do what you need to to take care of yourself emotionally. It may feel weird, but getting yourself to a good headspace will help you be a stronger candidate- you’ll be more confident, more creative and a nicer person to work with. Invest in a hobby that you love and set aside time for it. Reward yourself for your efforts. I used to buy a lotto ticket for every application I submitted- I figured I’d get lucky one day.

    3. Irish Teacher*

      It sounds like it was about the company not making enough money to be able to retain you rather than your doing anything wrong. That doesn’t mean you were bad at your job, just that they had more staff than they could afford. If you were the most recent hire, then there’s a very good chance that was the reason. If you weren’t, then possibly, those hired after you were in roles they couldn’t eliminate (or they were cheaper to keep). “Not enough foot traffic” really sounds like it’s about the business not getting enough customers and not about you.

      My only advice would be to think about what you really want to do. Not just what is easy and nearby. I mean there is nothing wrong with those as criteria, but you might find something better suited to you if you think about what are your strengths, what are your qualifications (not just what you did at college, though if you have a degree, that’s definitely relevent, but also apprenticeships, any courses you took, etc), what do you enjoy doing?

      If everything was open to you, what would you choose? Then think what it is you would like about that role and see what other roles that are attainable might appeal in the same way.

      I might be way off here, but it sounds a little to me like you might just be falling into roles rather than actively choosing and that those roles might not always be the best ones for you.

      1. Taco Bell Job Fair*

        I was hired in a group of people who were all hired at the same time.

        I have a college degree but it is only an associates.

        I’d really like to be an entertainer, but I know that is a tough business to break into.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          I don’t know much about US qualifications but I don’t think any college qualification is ever “only”. Think about what skills you learnt that would be needed by employers.

          And if they hired a group of you, then the most likely thing is they took on more than they ended up able to afford and couldn’t retain you all.

  104. Ann Furthermore*

    My company was just acquired by a larger one, which overall I think will be a really good thing. More vacation, a 401(k) match, and some other positive stuff too. But the transition has been painful. All of our laptops have to be wiped and re-imaged, and re-pointed to the new Office 365. I’m an IT consultant, so that means that all the VPNs I have for all the clients I support are going to get blown away and I’ll have to go through the painful process of re-loading all of those different tools, along with some other software that I use all the time, plus just the general inconvenience of having to get my browser settings back to the way I want them and all the rest of it. I’m going to finish up my last call here in a bit, and then start the process. I finally figured out how to make sure all of my OneNote files — which I use for all my notes, research, and other stuff I do for clients — are preserved, because if I lost those I really would be dead in the water. So there’s no excuse to keep putting it off.

    But I don’t wanna do it. I’m remote, so I have to follow some instructions and do it on my own. Eek!!

  105. Not Surprised*

    Just wanted to share this incase it’s useful for other people to know.

    I always ask Alison’s question about a job’s salary range “to see if we’re in the same ballpark” before agreeing to do any phone screens or interviews. I figure if a company doesn’t want to share, there’s a good chance the pay is low.

    Last week, when I asked this, whoever was trying to get me to schedule a phone screen with a recruiter accidentally forwarded the recruiter’s e-mail to me. It said to tell me they didn’t know the salary range, and to tell me to set up a phone screen to find out. Because “this pay rate is really low and I want to make sure that I have them on the phone when I have this conversation.”

    Not sure why they think someone who wants to know the salary range before getting on the phone is going to be happy to find out the salary range is low over a phone call.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Yikes! But also glad you found out, if in a weird and embarrassing (for them) way…

    2. LizB*

      I think they figure they have a better chance of convincing you over the phone that actually, it’s not that low, and here are all these other good things about the job that totally make up for it, and really you’ve already put in the time for a phone screen so shouldn’t you just stick with the process and let us hire you for pennies??

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Either the recruiter thinks they are a very convincing person who can sweet talk you into ignoring a low rate, or they are expecting you to decline but want to gather feedback on what a reasonable rate is, to show TPTB this is why they’re not getting any takers.

    4. ecnaseener*

      A lot of recruiters seem to be under this impression! It’s very frustrating – you want to be accommodating if they’re just “a phone person,” but in cases like this it’s clearly an attempt to trap you in a conversation and wear you down. Blegh.

    5. kiki*

      I think a lot of recruiters share a lot of traits with salespeople, but instead of a product, they’re selling jobs to candidates. It’s a lot easier for most people to “sell” something in person or over the phone than in an email. I think they’re hoping they can tell you the pay rate but bring up the fabulous culture, upward mobility, wonderful benefits, yada yada. That’s not going to work for a lot of people because at the end of the day the numbers are the numbers, but I can see why the recruiter would want to at least try to make a pitch, which they know won’t be as effective in an email.

  106. PNW Annie*

    Hi there,
    Any advice appreciated! I’ve been an HR Generalist (dept of 1) in manufacturing at my company for 4 years. They were my client when I was recruiter, which I did for 5 years. So now I’m applying for jobs essentially for the first time in 9 years.

    I thought I was a decent candidate…I’ve got a wide range of experience, good job history, and have taken on many projects and done well at them. I get recruited locally but my area doesn’t pay well and doesn’t believe in remote HR work. I’m applying for fully remote jobs in either HR, recruiting or benefits positions in engineering, construction, retail, creative, or manufacturing. I would also enjoy a project management or account management role.

    I’m finding applying to be like sending your resume into a black hole! I believe my resume and cover letter are good. However, I only have an AAS, no certifications or advanced degree. Other than that, I only apply for jobs that I meet the qualifications for. I’ve applied for almost 80 jobs and had 3 interviews. I have one opportunity that may work out but not til November.

    I’m sure this has been asked a million times in the open thread, but any advice for how to stand out and get interviews? Thank you in advance!

    1. ferrina*

      You probably know the usual things- have someone else review your resume and cover letter, make sure your resume lists accomplishments and quantifies as much as possible (maybe turnover rates?), tailor your resume and cover letter for each application.

      Beyond that, here’s what helped me:
      -Make it easy to tailor your resume/cover letter. I have a long-form ‘master’ resume with about 20 bullets per job. When I’m applying, I look at what the job wants and include only the bullets that speak to those strengths (plus maybe one or two super basic, ‘this was my job responsibilities’). It made it really quick and painless to tailor my resume, to the point where I sort of enjoyed it. Same thing with the cover letter- I had a three-page ‘master’ cover letter with eight paragraphs with anecdotes about different skills and specialties. For each application, I’d pick 2-3 paragraphs that the company would likely be most interested in. That would give me a strong framework, then I’d edit for 15 minutes and have a great, tailored cover letter.

      -Experiment with your resume/cover letter. Use different versions, and if one version gets you a call and another doesn’t, try the successful version again. One result isn’t a guarantee, but see what trends better. I had a running spreadsheet for all of my applications, plus each application has it’s own folder with the job description, exact cover letter I used and exact resume I used. It meant that I could easily see what I had originally told them when they called me a couple months later.

      -Apply to jobs that you meet 70% of the criteria for. It asks for 7 years experience doing X but you only have 5 years? Great, apply. Often the job postings are a wishlist, and parts are flexible. You have no way of knowing which parts the flexible ones are from the outside. If the job looks fun and you’re more or less qualified, apply!

      Good luck!

      1. PNW Annie*

        Thank you Ferrina, that is excellent advice! I really appreciate the practical information like having a master resume and editing the bullet points. I’ve never seen that suggested anywhere!

    1. Shirley Keeldar*

      Oops, this was meant as a replay to “Not Your Admin Ass(t)” at 11:04. Obviously it makes no sense out of context. Sorry!

  108. Miss Gradenko*

    I’m on the committee for our Library’s upcoming staff development day. I’d love to hear about some trainings or activities people have found interesting, useful and/or fun! (Also, hearing about things that have been total bombs would be helpful, too!)

    1. ferrina*

      Ooh, my work did one where we looked at some AAM letters and talked about how we would handle each scenario (including how it would escalate, etc.) It was some great discussion, I learned about how my coworkers approach issues and thought about how I approach them, and I even learned a bit about some of our policies that I wasn’t aware of!

  109. JustaTech*

    Looking for suggestions on how to improve connection/communication for a department that is remote/hybrid and made of groups that don’t work together directly a lot.

    I’m on a committee at work that’s trying to develop some strategies to improve our communication/connection within our department. We’ve got some 100% remote folks, some 90% remote folks, and a lot of people doing the ad-hoc hybrid schedule. We’re also made of a bunch of somewhat disparate groups; some groups work really closely together and others do very different stuff so there’s not a lot of daily interaction.

    My thought was to (finally!) get some social-type Teams channels (I’ve been asking for this since March 2020, but the PTB didn’t seem to get what I was asking for or didn’t see the value in a Teams channel for talking about sports or music or whatever) to give folks a digital space for water-cooler talk.
    I thought this would be an easy, well accepted thing, but then I had one person on my committee say that he would never engage in chit-chat with people he hadn’t already met (in person) repeatedly. I thought this was a weird response, but then I realized that while I like hanging out with you all here (and other forums elsewhere), maybe there are a lot of people for whom chatting online with virtual strangers is just a total non-starter.

    So, to try to reach people who would never, ever do a Stranger Things chat, but have expressed a clear interest in connecting by video with other people in the group, what could we do?
    We used to do virtual happy hours which were ok (but don’t really work as hybrid events because it’s too hard to hear conversations in the room), and someone suggested virtual lunch hours (which could be fine or could just be endless chewing that is so much more annoying over headphones).
    Oh yeah, and we have zero budget.

    Any ideas?

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      uh, I have the same issue, so no suggestions. Everyone says they love WFH but seem generally discontent. They complain about lack of communication but then act bothered when I call them. I can’t win. Then you organize stuff and they complain it feels too planned, or they don’t come and they miss the 1/2 of the events that are actually good.

    2. ferrina*

      Coffee chats- folks can opt in to be randomly assigned to groups of 3-4. They then set aside an hour to chat and get to know each other.

      Icebreakers in group meetings- not every meeting (that would be awful), but a few. One team I worked on had Friday Ice Breakers, which was a random question in our Friday team meeting. It was pretty harmless- if you could travel anywhere in the world, where would you go?- and was a fun way to connect.

      Build the first 5 minutes of a meeting to catch up. Share a little about yourself and how you’re doing- “My cat must have got into the catnip, cuz she is going nuts today! Sorry if she interrupts us.” Just this short connection builds relationships.

      1. JustaTech*

        The coffee chat sounds like a good idea (and better than lunch, because again, eating sounds over headphones).

        The thing with the group meetings is that, the groups that have meetings all generally know each other (a lot of people have worked here for years and year), it’s trying to meet the people in our department we *don’t* have meeting with that’s hard.

        And at this point I’m going to focus on the people who *do* want to connect. I have a few coworkers who are perfectly nice people and good coworkers who would really rather be boiled in oil than socialize on a regular basis. (Though who knows, maybe they’d love to hang out in a chat and talk about their dogs.)
        Thanks!

    3. Girasol*

      There are all kinds of ice breakers and games you can do with remote software. Trivia games are fun. Try having someone throw together a powerpoint of photos of antique tools to play “What’s this?” We had remarkable success with a homemade Rube Goldberg game using a spreadsheet that would select randomly from a list three objects, and a device to build, and people would work together to figure out how those objects could be used to build the device. Non-competitive games that encourage chatting seem particularly effective. Or just allow a few minutes at the start of the meeting for open chat with a remote whiteboard that people can draw graffiti on, before calling the group to order. (If your team doesn’t do remote whiteboard, it’s a skill worth learning for business communication anyway.)

    4. Gnome*

      Maybe have themed chats? Some ideas are things like sports, books, parenting, and pets. But ask! Just like we get threads on the open forum here (fiber art, gaming, etc.) people will have hobbies and interests that might get them in touch with those in other departments/groups. So, you could have a rotating “theme chat” for maybe 15 minutes over lunch or coffee in the AM and people can come or not to talk about whatever the topic is. I don’t like to talk to people I don’t know, but I love talking about pets, my kids, etc.

      Some people just don’t like zoom-type things, and won’t join no matter what, but the idea is to make it a bit less socially awkward – give it a topic to kick off.

      1. JustaTech*

        This is a good idea: give it some structure but not so much it’s an “event”. And then it’s not just a bunch of people staring at their screens on mute.
        We could even combine it with a Teams channel for text-based chatting.

    5. Colette*

      One of my teams has a social time every Friday afternoon. It starts with our daily meeting, then people can stay to chat/play online games if they want, or drop off if they don’t. Today we played scattegories.

      But I think you have to go all in-person or all online – you’re not going to have a lot of success if some people are in a room and others are online.

    6. AnonyMouse*

      I would do the Teams water cooler chat thing, plus optional in-person coffee hours for those who want to connect in person. I have never been a fan of virtual video chit chats. If you have to do a Zoom thing, I would do breakout rooms with no more than 4 people per room and have a specific topic/theme.

  110. Can't Sit Still*

    Should I mention at work that I am on Evusheld (PreP for Covid) or not? I am immunocompromised and can only WFH if my team is also WFH, since my physical presence is required at least part of the time when people are in the office. I’m thinking that admitting that I’m on Evusheld will make them think it’s too risky to keep me on (it wouldn’t be the first time an employer decided that the best thing they could do for my disability is terminate me, “so you can take care of yourself.”

    I think I answered my own question, but I’d like to hear other people’s thoughts.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      First if someone ever says that to you sue their pants off.

      What would the benefit be? Are you able to work from the office with the Evusheld? If so, they don’t need to know. The only reason to tell them would be if you need extra accommodations. Do they know you’re immunocompromised? Have they offered any accommodations for you so far?

      The best rule of thumb is your employer should get as little of your personal medical informational as possible. Some people have reasons to trust their employers more or feel more comfortable being transparent, but if you’re unsure always err on the side of nondisclosure.

    2. PollyQ*

      I wouldn’t tell them. If you’re covered under ADA, I’d think about asking for a formal WFH accomodation–perhaps the physical presence part of your role could be shifted to someone else? But even there, I’d only tell what was absolutely required to disclose to get the accomodation, which I doubt includes what kind of medication you’re taking to treat your condition.

    3. RagingADHD*

      What would be the purpose of disclosing it? How does it impact your work?

      As a general rule, health info at work for anything that isn’t extremely routine should be on a need-to-know basis.

  111. Slowlyaging*

    Small company when quoting or using new suppliers. At a minimum I think we need NDA, w-9, if on site proof of insurance liability, certification proof of skills we need. Anything else?
    Lot of change in our company and my boss is a bit of a cowboy with procedures. He had vendor doing test drilling on site, which he signed a contract without any of the above.

      1. slowlyaging*

        Thanks. This isn’t something I know nothing. I googled it to figure out what I listed.

  112. Choi*

    Two questions:

    Firstly, does anyone have any good scripts to help deal with a negative Nancy? We’ve a new(ish) team member, and Everything Is Terrible Always. The core focus of her role (committee secretariat and project management) is Awful because she has to get people to write the meeting papers by the deadline, our manager is Terrible because they asked if she had a cold or covid and did she want to not attend the in-person meeting, our company is Nightmarish because she only had a couple of days training before being thrown in the deep end (as I was in the process of training her on an infrequent but high profile issue). I’m not a sunshine and roses person myself, but in the 6-ish months I’ve worked with her I’ve not had a single conversation with her that wasn’t driven by her complaints

    Secondly: a few weeks ago I applied for a job at another company. I’m not unhappy with my job in the whole, but I am bored and there is no space or capacity for me to progress, so I’m especially looking for a challenge. I got an email last week that they’d reprofiled the role I applied for into a lower salary band (a £10k drop from when I’d applied) and experience level, but that if I was still interested I could have an informal conversation with the hiring manager ‘to explore my aspirations and see if we can reach a common understanding”
    Does anyone have experience of these kind of conversations, and how to calibrate my expectations? I’d be looking for a salary in the middle of the previously advertised band (so some £15k from the bottom of the revised band and £5k over the top of it), but I’m most focused on needing that challenge and if they’ve decided they can make do with less experience, I’m wondering if even the original role would actually be as interesting as first described

    1. Prospect Gone Bad*

      If she’s is complaining this much and you don’t like her, my guess is that she is starting most chats? Maybe flip that on its head and start a conversation with her about how awesome things are, and she if she can handle it! If she starts trying to complain, be like “no, I actually like it” or “it’s actually good!”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I usually say stuff like,
        “Yeah, that’s why they call it ‘work’, it’s definitely not child’s play.”
        OR
        “Yep, other people are wrestling with stuff also.”
        OR
        “Well, here everyone tries to make the best of it.”

        I hope you can find something soon.

  113. Figarino*

    My coworker was 40 minutes late in relieving me from my shift and I got a parking ticket. Do I have any recourse with the company for reimbursement? Notes: I am hourly and the ticket was more than I made by staying late. My coworker is more senior than me, but is not my supervisor.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      I would guess the company would say no, but I don’t think it could hurt to ask. “When Fergus was 40 minutes late, I was, of course, happy to cover, but I did end up receiving a parking ticket which cost more than the salary I received for that time. Is it possible to be reimbursed for that? Or to work out a solution (like allowing you to go feed the meter or move your car) so that it doesn’t happen again?”

    2. Decidedly Me*

      Were you not allowed to step away to prevent that ticket? Was anyone made aware of the issue before it happened?

  114. cactus lady*

    Anyone have success getting their workplace to reimburse for dog boarding when they have work travel? It’s insanely expensive in my area and now that we are traveling again it’s adding up – I have already spent over $1000 on work-related dog boarding this year with more travel coming up! I don’t have any friends or family who can watch him.

    1. Can’t Sit Still*

      My company offers pet boarding reimbursement as part of an employee work/life balance program. As long as it’s work-related, it’s reimbursed, up to a certain amount per year. I believe that’s pretty unusual, though.

  115. Kyli*

    Hi I am looking for someone to help my mom re-write her resume into a strengths based format. She has great skills but is not confident so I think some hand holding would be better than buying her a template. Ideally I’d love to get her coaching but I think just redoing the resume is all that’s in the budget atm. Does anyone have any suggested resources? Is there an org that does this pro bono? Or what is a reasonable price? I’m on disability recovering from TBI so I’m not sure I afford as much as this skill set is worth.
    Thanks for your insight and help!

    Sent from a brain relearning to read and communicate. Please excuse any errors. Thank you for your understanding.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      If no one comes up with any resources, please down load Alison’s freebie and see what tips you can pull out of there that your mom can use.

      I love how you are taking care of your mom. Resumes are hard because it goes back to how we feel about ourselves.

    2. Silence*

      Not sure where you are but ‘dress for success ‘ had workshops for resume and cover letter writing as well as supplying interview clothing

  116. Resume Writing Help Please*

    Hi I am looking for someone to help my mom re-write her resume into a strengths based format. She has great skills but is not very confident so I think some hand holding would be better than buying her a template. Ideally I’d love to get her coaching but I think just redoing the resume is all that’s in the budget atm. Does anyone have any suggested resources? Is there an org that does this pro bono? Or what is a reasonable price? I’m on disability recovering from TBI so I’m not sure I afford as much as this skill set is worth.
    Thanks for your insight and help!

    Sent from a brain relearning to read and communicate. Please excuse any errors. Thank you for your understanding.

  117. my cat is prettier than me*

    How much do y’all pay for health insurance? I just got a new job and selected a plan with a $2500 deductible and a $7700 OOP maximum. My premium is $150 per month. I’ve done a bunch of research online, but I can’t figure out if that’s good or not.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I have a $2500 deductible, a $6000 OOP max, get a $700 annual contribution to my HSA and pay $90/month (before credits from points earned through our wellness plan, which bring it down to $21/month) to cover just myself.

    3. Doctor is In*

      I pay the premiums for my employees and it costs me $550 to $650 per month per person depending on age. Similar to your coverage. You are probably paying about 20-25%.

    4. OyHiOh*

      I pay about $500/mo for family plan. Includes dental and vision riders.

      $6000 deductible (total for family), no co pays, contributions towards HSA/FSA plans and a fairly low OOP max but I don’t recall what that is off the top of my head.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        I will add that while there are excesses for “everyday expenses,” there are none for things like in-patient treatment. When I had my thyroid out, I just gave the hospital my insurance details and some months later, my health insurance sent me a record of what they’d paid, with confirmation that there was nothing for me to pay.

    6. WTF situation of my own creation*

      Current plan: is about ~$20 per pay period for just myself 3500 deducible, 8550 OOP. I’m not sure how it’s so low but I don’t complain about it. Just for myself. New plan is $45 per pay period for just myself. Similar deductibles and OOP. Both are large employers (tens of thousands of employees).

    7. Mid*

      I just ended up looking at a few different benefits packages, and yours seems about average, at least in my neck of the woods. My new plan will be $1500 deductible, $3000 OOP max, but has a 10% co-pay on everything, and will be $134/month.

      My previous plan was $384/month (but I negotiated to have my employer pay that in lieu of some other benefits), with a $1000 deductible and a $7500 OOP max, and the plan before that was a family plan that was a little over $900/month for family coverage (would have been $250 for one person) with a $4000 family deductible (but $1000 per person deductible), and a $12000 OOP max, but almost everything was in-network and the co-pays were $10 for everything but surgery.

      Also US health insurance is a nightmare.

    8. Paris Geller*

      I have a HSA plan. Deductible is 5K and OOP max is 7.5K. Premium is $29/month. My employer contributes 1K to my HSA and I max it out with my contributions. Interestingly enough, even though the HSA plans are considered high deductible, my deductible is still lower than the other two plans my employer offers.

    9. Filosofickle*

      I have unusually good benefits, commenting not to gloat but to provide a data point at that end of the spectrum. My job covers 100% of premiums for the employee. 1K deductible, 3K OOP (higher out of network). I pay another 15/mo for dental + vision.

    10. WellRed*

      I pay about $30 per pay period, $15 deductible. OOP is, I think, $5k. I don’t have to meet the deductible on medications those have copays, thank god. And I have an FSA which I would prefer to be an HSA. 1,000 employees.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      This is enlightening.
      I pay just over $230 per mo, with a 5k deductible and no frills. No dental, no eye, nothing.

    12. fhqwhgads*

      $3000 deductible, $5500 OOP max. Premium is $30something per month. Includes vision and dental. The portion my employer pays is $800something per month.

    13. Aphrodite*

      I am floored by what I am reading here. I know I have it good but all these responses have my eyebrows shooting skyward.

      I work in academia, a two-year community college in California. We have a choice of three medical plans (which include vision; one is 80%, one is 90% and one is 100%) and three dental plans. I have the best dental and the 100 percent medical, meaning that general visits are a $10 co-pay and others are zero. For both, I pay a total of $185 per month over ten months. They are PPOs.

    14. 653-CXK*

      $111 per pay period pre-tax ($242 per month), $4,000 deductible ($500 from me, $3,500 HSA – came in really handy when I was in the hospital last year); out of pocket max $5,000; copays reasonable (doctor/specialist visits $25, ER $350 unless admitted).

      1. 653-CXK*

        Whoops – math fail. That should be $222 pretax per month.

        I know I’m probably the outlier here (at ExJob I paid a maximum of $40 per pay period) but my doctors/specialists were tiered with different copays. At least with this plan, I can see whoever I like.

  118. user426217*

    A bit of rant: I would like to leave my current company asap.

    So I’m applying. But it’s taking so long. A normal recruitment process has 4-6 stages. And I’m in IT, companies always complain it’s so difficult to find people in tech and then they organize 3 “culture interviews”, 1-2 technical tests and a random personality/logical thinking test with no scientific background.

    Not to mention all these positions that are to be about A (the recruiter approaches you and asks you if you’re interested because you’re an expert in A) and then result to be about B during the technical interview.

    It’s so frustrating.

  119. WTF situation of my own creation*

    How would you explain the following situation in an interview?
    let’s say you and your partner have a mid-to-high six-figure net worth in investments that you didn’t realize your new job would prohibit you from holding. You (foolishly) gave notice at your current job already. You decide the tax implications and opportunity cost of selling the investments outweigh the benefits of starting the new job.

    1) How do you communicate this to the company (which you were previously over the moon about working for) that you are withdrawing your acceptance because of the above? (You don’t want to delve into your personal financial details, but you also don’t want to seem like you are now withdrawing friviously).

    2) How do you explain when you start interviewing again? (Portend that you had planned to quit with nothing lined up, make opaque references to financial independence requirements, or explain that you didn’t want to impact your partner’s financial investment situation (without naming a figure)).

    This is not a certain situation but it is a possibility.

    1. Colette*

      1) “My partner and I have investments in X. I didn’t realize that would be an issue, but since it is, I have to decline your offer.”

      2) “I left my job for a new opportunity, but didn’t realize I’d have to sell investments that my partner and I decided we weren’t willing to sell.”

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I left a place once because of a legal matter that was personal, but had financial impacts that conflicted with the work I was doing.

      I prioritized the legal matter over the job.

      For #2, here’s what I would say:
      “There was a conflict of interest within my household and I had to leave. I am not interested in anything that is unethical. As a proactive measure, I’d like to read your conflict of interest statement (if any) before I commence work here so that does not happen again.”

      Notice how you give ZERO description of the nature of conflict of interest. Notice how you say within your household. which could mean almost anything. You sued a manufacturer because of formaldehyde exposure literally in your house and now you can’t work at a furniture company. A very stupid example for many reasons but I think you see my drift.

      If pressed about the nature of the conflict, you can say, “I am not free to discuss the particulars. However, I am very determined not to let that or any conflict impact an employer’s or my reputation. “

  120. Chronically Overworked*

    For fellow mid-career folks in professional office roles, how many of you are experiencing employers expecting you to carry the workload for at least 2-3 people? This has been my experience for more than 12 years, and when I ask around my friend group, those with these kinds of jobs are reporting the same thing. Is this the new normal? And has anyone figured out an effective way to push back? Does anyone have advice for screening for this in job interviews?

    1. RisRose*

      I experienced this at a previous job. It started with me filling in for someone on maternity leave who did not return after leave. I pushed for them to hire a replacement, even going so far as to screen the candidates and set up interviews for my boss. They went through the motions, but never hired anyone. The consensus was that I had been doing both jobs successfully for 3 months now (tasks did not overlap in any way….) and they did not see the need to bring in a replacement. I never received a pay increase and when bringing it up to my boss a few months later he said it was my way of showing value to the company. I had been with the company for 3 years at this point and I responded with “When will the company start showing that they value me in return?” He really had no response to that question and nothing ever changed. This was one of many reasons I am no longer with that company. I don’t know of any way to screen for this in an interview process other than asking about turnover rates. That could give you some insight into whether the company stays well staffed or people are constantly turning over leaving others to do the work of multiple people.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Probably not a popular response- but I have watched this most of my life.

      I have had three jobs were I stayed about 10 years each. Yeah, the expectations just snowball and the gratitude vanishes.

      In the 70s I had an elderly aunt. She remained single and worked most of her life. I think she worked in a hotel, not sure. So roughly speaking she worked from 1910 to maybe early 1960s.

      When she retired they had to hire THREE people to do what she was doing. She found that very satisfying.

      Part of the problem I see is that regs change, procedures change. The people who do not do the work do not see how many times a day/week they add a task or a step and say, “Oh this will only take 5 minutes.” You say this 6 times a week and that is a half hour more work.

      I worked for a company that added new tasks or steps AT LEAST 10 times per week, every week without fail. The employees were crushed under the weight of it all. Not only that, but the constant changes were almost impossible to keep track of. Yeah, there was lots of sniping going on.

    3. kiki*

      It does seem to be the new normal. At my previous company, it was related to a private equity company taking over and “streamlining” everything. When the private equity company bought the company, there admittedly were quite a few inefficiencies and redundancies that they took care of. But then every year they kept going past the point of reasonableness to save just a little bit of money and generate more profit for stakeholders.

      Another part of the issue is that there wasn’t appreciation for the fact good, deep work takes both more active time and more “down” time. For example, for a product manager role, they estimated a product manager could technically double up and manage two products because technically somebody could write all the tickets and attend all the meetings for both products in two weeks. But being a good product manager takes time to think strategically and mull things over. So both teams and the products ended up suffering but the company saved $100k (salary + benefits). Tracking the amount of money they lost in poor decisions, customer support effort, and customer dissatisfaction is less clear and unaccounted for in their financial report.

  121. Tales from Job Hunting Hell*

    I met with a recruiter earlier this week. Among other things, he explained that one of the reasons they expect all team members to travel one full week every month to work at the same site is that this “minimizes family distractions.” I was too stunned to do anything more than acknowledge this in the moment. Am I overreacting to interpret this as a five-story tall red flag?

    1. Sabine the Very Mean*

      Good Lord no. You are definitely not overreacting. Jobs are a distraction to families, not the other way around. I’d run in the other direction. One week a month?!!? Sweet Mary Mother of Glob.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Their only justification for that travel burden was not even work specific so yes, that’s a red flag to me.

      I saw a similar story on LinkedIn from someone who withdrew during an interview when the hiring manager threw the following red flag: every employee must sign an agreement that they will not be the primary caregiver to anyone while they are an employee. As in, you’re not allowed to be the one to go get your sick child from school during the workday, or take your aging parent to a medical appointment, etc., or you face disciplinary action.

      2. Tales from Job Hunting Hell*

        They also gave the usual generic corporate excuses for insisting on in-person work, but this unnecessary comment jumped out at me for obvious reasons. And this was a “Director” level internal recruiter, so this wasn’t some inexperienced 3rd party botching an initial conversation. This person was very much representing the team that was hiring. The more I think about it, the more I think this was said knowing full well that it would send anyone with healthy boundaries running the other, and possibly also as a not-so-subtle hint that women/primary caregivers are not welcome on the team. So gross.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      This might be a good point if you and your coworkers crewed a nuclear missile silo.

      Not if you’re doing the audits for Llamas R Us.

      1. Can't think of a funny name*

        LOL, completely not relevant to OP but I just toured a decommissioned nuclear missile silo a few days ago…very interesting!

        I hate travel and travel with no good purpose IMO sounds even worse!

    4. Toasty*

      Personally, I don’t see this as a red flag on its own. The wording is not great, but it seems okay tome since this policy seems to apply to everyone, not just those with families.

      1. Filosofickle*

        The problem isn’t the actual onsite requirement per se — it’s that the reason given is anti-human. Anyone so deeply concerned about family “distractions” that they dictate a week away every month is going to be awful to work for. They are signalling that they are inherently suspicious of employees — believing they are easily distracted and not good worker-bots — and likely to be inflexible if you happen to be a normal human with personal needs. It’s very paternalistic.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          Yeah, my concern would be that they seem to see family as distraction, so I would wonder if they’d be supportive if a parent needed time off to care for children or somebody needed time off to care for a sick relative or to deal with a bereavement or if getting pregnant might damage a woman’s chances of promotion there. None of that might happen but those things would be on my mind.

      2. Tales from Job Hunting Hell*

        I don’t follow. My concern isn’t about discrimination, and that seems irrelevant unless I’m missing something. I don’t have children and live alone (and didn’t allude either way), yet this still struck me as hugely problematic. I may not have a traditional family expecting me to be available, but I do have pets and a very full life. And people who *do* have families should not be expected to abandon those families for their jobs for roughly 25% of the year! And no, there’s nothing mission critical about this role/team that would justify this. It reeked of a 1950s mentality and men wanting an “acceptable” excuse to ditch their wives and children.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      HA! Dream world stuff going on there.

      No, my job is a distraction from my family life. If I did not have the fam, home, dog then I would not need this job. I could get something smaller somewhere else. THEY are the reason I am here.

    8. kiki*

      Not an overreaction. They are looking for people who also see family as secondary to work, which some people do and would probably be cool with the policy, but that’s definitely not for me.

  122. Why so Indirect?*

    I wonder if others experience these bizarre interactions at work. I have had coworkers like this at ever place I’ve worked but I feel like it’s a me problem. When someone asks a question, why do they ask it indirectly? For the latest example, I had a colleague come up and ask me if I had a chance to sign up for X Event. My answer was, “yes, yes I did. Thank you.” But she stood there looking at me puzzled in silence so I return the look back to her. Finally she said, “but I don’t see your name listed”. “Right, I say, I didn’t sign up”. Her puzzled look returns and I give it back, confused. She says, “I just asked if you had a chance to sign up and you said yes…?” I say, “Yes, I did get a chance to sign up. I’m not available for that event.” She walks away from me like I have five heads. I’m standing there confused about what I had just done wrong. Why not just ask the question you want the answer for?

    1. Toasty*

      This particular example seems like a language/culture quirk. I’ve often found that if someone asks me if I “had the chance to do X” then they really want to know whether or not I had actually done X, not just whether I’ve had the opportunity. I could understand your colleague’s confusion that you simply responded “yes” without clarifying that you were not available for the event.

    2. Amber Rose*

      Sounds like a miscommunication due to colloquialism. To me, your coworker pretty clearly asked if you signed up for the event. “Did you get a chance to…” usually translates to “did you do this thing?”

      That’s language for you.

    3. Irish Teacher*

      To me, the original question sounded like she meant “did you sign up yet?” It sounds like it didn’t even occur to her that you might not be taking part. In her mind, the only options were “I didn’t see it” or “I’ve signed up.”

      So from her point of view, she asked, “did you sign up yet?” and you said you did. She wondered if there was a mistake on the list or if she’d missed your name when reading through them and then you said you didn’t sign up, which to her, seemed to contradict your previous answer.

      Was there a reason you didn’t originally tell her you weren’t signing up for the event or did you just not think of it? To be honest, while I do think that she was wrong to make an assumption that you were taking part in the first place, I think it would make sense to answer her question with something like “yes, I saw it but unfortunately, I’m not available for the event.”

      Saying “yes, I did” does sort of imply that you signed up, though again, the way she phrased it doesn’t really allow for the possibility you’re not going so I think it makes sense for you to add that yourself without being asked.

      My guess is she thinks she did ask the question she wanted an answer for. To her “did you get a chance to sign up?” doesn’t mean “did you see the sign-up sheet?” It means “did you get around to doing it?” or “have you signed up yet?”

    4. Why so Indirect*

      Thanks all! I’m sure you’re all correct that the question was implied. The reason I didn’t think she was actually asking why I hadn’t signed up because when she approached me, she had the sign up sheet on a clipboard in her hand. I figured she was making the rounds again so people could sign up. She clearly saw my name wasn’t there so it was odd to me that she didn’t just say, “hey I didn’t see your name so I just wanted to make sure you had the chance to sign up”. I would have gotten it then. This way, it was just a bit like a strange test or something. But assuming positive intent, I’m sure we just confused each other. Hopefully she changes her approach and I will change mine.

      1. Caprice*

        For the deeper question of why people do this and why you keep running up against it… Usually these things come down to differing standards of politeness and imposition. For some people, being overly direct seems like putting the other person on the spot, all pressure and no sensitivity. On the other hand, it could also be the exact opposite and the subtlety was angled to try to needle you in a different way. Or maybe it’s just a speech habit ingrained in this person ages ago, like maybe her mom used that phrasing all the time when she was growing up. On top of all that, in all cases it’s unlikely she put as much thought into it as we’re doing now; most likely it was just the phrasing that felt most natural to her in the moment.

        There are almost as many sets of these standards and rules as there are people, and the same words can end up meaning startlingly different things to different individuals. It’s risky trying to read too much into people you don’t know, but at the same time reading in is often mandatory to get any meaning at all. Anyway, assuming positive intent at least, people who are habitually indirect are *used* to being indirect, and probably used to dealing more (or at least more happily) with other indirect people, so to them they really are saying what they mean clearly.

        All you can really do is remember that communication is imperfect and will inevitably hit your ears differently than it left the other person’s mouth sometimes. Having these kinds of momentary misunderstandings sometimes really is very common and normal, even if it sounds like you perhaps encounter them at a higher rate than some. Personally, I think the best bet is being aware enough to catch it quickly when you can see that someone is confused or not responding in a way that makes sense to you, and graceful enough to think of it in terms of “Whoops, the two of us got our wires crossed” instead of “Why won’t they just say what they mean?” Most people are okay with that if you can handle it well, since again, it does happen to everyone sometimes. (And the ones who aren’t okay with it are the ones stuck on thinking “Why won’t they just listen to what I say?” about you instead.)

    5. Anon For This*

      This does strike me as a you problem. I am usually big on telling people to answer the question asked, and not try to address whatever they think is behind it. That is usually good practice. But in this case (and ones like it) this is not really a question – it is a polite reminder to sign up. Feel free to answer yes, I had the chance, but declined as I am not available.

      1. kiki*

        Yeah, I think this sort of phrasing is really common. I think the way OP responded is a fair literal interpretation, but I also don’t think their colleague was acting bizarrely for being confused by their answer. It reminds me of the “what’s your perfect date? April 25” thing from Miss Congeniality. Most people understood the question was about a romantic date in this context. April 25 isn’t technically wrong (and it is a great day of the year), but it’s missing the goal of the question.

        Usually when people ask this, they want to know if you’re going to sign up or not. It’s not the most direct way of asking, but it is really common and considered “more polite” in some cultural contexts.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My inclination would be to answer the question as asked, the same way you did. However, I am an Ask person born and raised and living in Guess culture for the last 40 years, so I probably would have said (something like) “no, but put me down for garlic bacon deviled eggs” out of self-defense.

          1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            I will try to remember but it’s pretty much just regular deviled eggs with garlic (powder or paste) and crumbled bacon mixed into the filling :) I don’t measure anything more specifically, I just eyeball it.

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        I too am a 40 year old (well, slightly older but close) Ask person born and raised and living in a Guess country.

    7. WellRed*

      If you meet one indirect person you’ve met an indirect person. If everyone is indirect, it’s you.

    8. Ellis Bell*

      She kind of phrased it in a sales-y way, pitching it as “Oh of course you would have put your name down for this, the only explanation of why you didn’t, is you didn’t have a chance!” So, because you weren’t expecting that spin on it, you heard it as “Have you seen this yet?” and not as “Do you want to sign up, and if not why not?” Your response was kind of awesome actually, you were supposed to pretend you hadn’t had a chance yet and put your name down, or come up with a good reason for why you hadn’t. It was funny that you just said yes to the direct question and then no to the hidden one! I must do that.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      There is a thing of anticipating a follow up question.

      Them: Did you see that sign up is open for x activity.

      Me: Yeah, I saw that. But I can’t go because of y.
      Here I anticipated the next question and answered it preemptively.

      People have different openings they use to help the listener feel included. Some people feel that more words are better than less words.

      Going the opposite way, if the person collecting signatures feels like their program is the equivalent to a root canal, they may have their own awkwardness that they are dealing with. So the introductory question might be a caution warning, “Coming up next I am going to talk to you about signing up for your root canal [X thing most people do not look forward to].” This gives the listener a second to compose their answer.

      I do think that it’s a group thing- a culture thing inside a group of people. So this could be a norm for a work group, or a church group or whatever.

      For some odd reason, I like seeing this in groups. It has a happier connotation for me because I don’t see this type of framing in toxic groups.

      It’s okay to provide follow up info for that unasked question.

    10. Wisteria*

      I am spectrum. I am hardwired to take questions literally. To help me empathize with indirect people and be less annoyed by the way they want me to read their mind, I try to remember that they are not spectrum. Their brains are wired to be indirect. They can’t help it. It still causes me frustration when I cross wires with an indirect person, but the level of suffering that I experience from the interaction is much lower. Maybe you could try that. Frame it as, they are indirect bc they are not capable of being otherwise.

    11. Office Gumby*

      Could have been she was asking an indirect question, but if you were to take it as a direct question, yes, you did answer it, but on a cliffhanger.

      What she really asked was, “Did you get a chance to make this choice?” and you said you did… but you did not finish your thought of what happened when that choice came up.

      That’s why she stared funny at you. She was waiting for the rest of your answer. And when you didn’t deliver, she then went on, trying to guess what else she expected you to say, “I didn’t see your name on the list…” She was looking for clarification for the absence of your name, as there were two reasons for that; she didn’t know which it was.

  123. Analytical Tree Hugger*

    Any advice on how a man can help women with amplification in the workplace?

    Do I do a combo of “don’t take up space” and “correct people who misattribute/miscredit ideas” or can I also join in the “yes, I really appreciate Karen’s idea because it will help us with XYZ” statements?

    2. ecnaseener*

      I think as a general rule, relatively brief statements in support of Karen are worth the time/space they take up. I just wouldn’t do the thing where you explain Karen’s idea for her. “In addition to the points Karen made, this would also help my team with X” — good; “I appreciate Karen’s idea because [thing Karen already said] and [extremely basic thing Karen didn’t feel the need to explain because it’s obvious]” is getting into unhelpful territory.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Notice when other men are talking over women.

      “Karen, you were telling us something about x….”

      Usually one sentence is enough in a group conversation. You don’t need to do overkill. But being consistent is a strong plan. If everyone know that meetings with ATH mean that all have a chance to speak and be heard, you won’t fight this one forever. You’ll create a mini-culture where this is the norm.

  124. ecnaseener*

    Here’s an end-of-week musing…I know the Dunning-Kruger effect is just autocorrelation*, but there does seem to be something to the idea that conscientious people, at least at work, have no idea how great they are to work with.

    A colleague sent me a thank-you message today saying she felt like she always overcomplicated things and I always simplified them for her. Which was a lovely compliment to get, but I was like omg do you have any idea how much easier you are to work with than most of your peers? What she calls “overcomplicating things” I call “asking smart questions and flagging things that give her pause!” But she has no idea how many of her counterparts are really, really bad at that kind of thing so just charge ahead and make mistakes. Thoughtful question-askers, I love you<3

    *Yes, really! Statistical bunk. Link in reply.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        That’s interesting.

        I think one thing that happens at work is that conscientiousness both makes a person more likely to be good at their job and more likely to be concerned about any mistakes they make.

        Not true of everybody, of course. Some people are conscientious but are just in the wrong role or something, but I suspect it has an impact.

    2. linger*

      The “autocorrelation” idea gets trotted out regularly, but is at best only a partial explanation. Kruger & Dunning 1998 established causation by using post-test other-rating and training exercises. Other-rating exercises improved the accuracy of self-ratings of “more competent” individuals, but not those of “less competent” individuals. Training (on the logic task) improved the accuracy of self-ratings of those “less competent” individuals who became “more competent” as a result of the training. These results are not explained by autocorrelation.

    3. star*

      I specifically thanked a colleague last week for asking specific questions. She picked up my mistakes and my omissions with her questions, it was fabulous!

  125. London Calling*

    If you saw ‘an ability to adapt to your audience’ in an advert job description would you assume the person/people who did this job before didn’t have this ability and had caused problems? the full description is ‘Effective, confident and considerate communication (verbally and in writing) and an ability to adapt to your audience’ and I can’t help thinking that the second bit is oddly specific.

    1. Toasty*

      This seems to me like more of a reflection of a potentially challenging audience rather than the person who had done it before. Maybe the previous person was especially skilled in communicating to a diverse audience and they are looking for someone at the same level?

      1. London Calling*

        It’s an admin job for an insurance broker. The job itself has been advertised for a couple of months and the salary is negotiable – so my thinking is that they are waiting to see what level of experience applicants have. It’s the sort of job that would suit both a school leaver at a first job or someone at the end of their career looking for something relatively undemanding.

        1. Filosofickle*

          I can see this for insurance. People are stressed about insurance — no one calls a broker for funsies! Some people will need hand-holding, others want to get to the point. It cuts across all demographics so you’ll be first contact for all types of folks and being able to read them and adjust to them is a great thing to have.

          You don’t have any way of knowing if it’s something that was valued before and they want to find again, or something previous folks (or even the broker themselves) lack. I don’t think it matters though. It’s something admins should be good at generally, and it was important enough to them to call it out.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Yeah, any public facing job you need to have some adaptability.

            I’d get an idea of what regular tasks are. I applied to one place years ago and it took a moment, but I finally got out of the interviewer that 75% of my job would be trying to get people to pay. Nope-ity, nope.

            I started by asking what duties were assigned to the role. I let her run the list. When she was done, I said, “I heard you say bill collection. On average how much of my average day would be spent talking to people late on their payments?”

            75% of my day! I said thank you for your time, but this is so not for me.

            1. Filosofickle*

              Hell no. When I was in a temp gig, every couple of weeks in between reception and data entry duties they’d ask me to make accounts receivable calls. I can’t tell you just how little I, a 22 year old temp, was motivated to play hardball with clients who owed them money! I’d dutifully dial up accounts payable, they’d say not yet, and I’d end the call. Bosses were annoyed I didn’t push harder. Nope.

              You were smart to have your radar up and dig for that.

              1. London Calling*

                *You were smart to have your radar up and dig for that*

                All credit to what I’ve learned on this site over the years :)

    2. Policy Wonk*

      Not knowing what the job is, it’s hard to say for sure, but no – I wouldn’t assume that. To use a public affairs example, you would write a press release for traditional media differently than you would write a post for social media. And preparing Congressional testimony is different than writing a speech to a group of high school students. They are just telling you that they will expect you to cover more than one type of portfolio.

    3. Irish Teacher*

      Not necessarily. If I were drafting an ad for an addition to our team, I might well include something like that because…I am a learning support teacher and we have students with a LOT of different needs from students who are of average ability or above but who are exempt from Irish, due to arriving in Ireland after the age of 12 down to students who in my childhood would have been in schools for students with intellectual disabilities. So you really do need to shift your approach based on the needs of the students in front of you.

      OK, I just saw the job in your reply and…that wasn’t the sort of thing I was imagining. I was assuming a role like teaching, social care, outreach projects, something that involved working with people who might have very different needs or levels of understanding.

      My guess would be that maybe they have a number of clients who have some form of difficulty with communication or just with communicating with them, like maybe they have a lot of international clients who are reading their communication in a second language or maybe they have a lot of clients with literacy difficulties or elderly people who might have eyesight or hearing difficulties or people with disabilities.

      But there could be lots of reasons so I’m not sure one can make any assumptions.

    4. AnonyMouse*

      I’d assume that means the job works with a diverse audience. I see versions of this in the nonprofit sector frequently.

  126. MuseAnne*

    References: I’ve been in the same position my entire professional life and had the same supervisor for the last 5 years – they’re the only one who really has any idea what I do. We are functionally the only two people in our org. The previous supervisor disgraced themselves professionally, so I’m loathe to use them as a reference. And the one before that was a decade ago, and seems too distant to speak effectively as a reference.

    I volunteer on a professional board, and a different (completely unrelated to my profession) board.

    Who should I use as references? If a job asks for references, how bad will it look if I ask who they’d like to hear from (explaining the above, but maybe leaving out the professional disgrace).

    TL,DR: I only have one professional reference who really knows my work. Who else can I list?

    1. Agile Phalanges*

      You say you’re “functionally” the only two people in your org, but is there ANYONE else who has worked with you in this current role, in any capacity? Admin, someone in a different department, a client, vendor, anyone? Otherwise, you’ll have to look for people outside of jobs, preferably at least volunteer roles, or if you’re on the board anywhere or have any other business-y roles. But otherwise, yeah, you’re gonna be stuck telling them you don’t have any references.

      I have a job history where my MOST recent job I quit after only nine months because the boss and I didn’t mesh, personality-wise, so I’m not gonna give him as a reference if I don’t have to (could use colleagues, hopefully), and the job before that I left because the boss was going senile, so HE won’t be a good reference, but I could at least give colleagues and the CPA our company used. Luckily, I got hired at the company I’m with now, and will probably have decent references from here if/when it’s time to move on.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Agreed. I have used an outside vendor that I worked with a lot. And I have used board members, from a board I was on. I asked first of course and built an easy out into my question. “I was wondering if you do references for people…” Or “I was wondering if you felt that you have seen enough of my work to be comfortable being a reference for me.”

        People are really great, I am amazed by how many times I got a yes.

  127. Gridelin*

    What exactly is the expected etiquette/procedure when you reapply for a job? I had interviews with this company a while ago and it seemed to be going quite well before I had to withdraw due to sudden life circumstances. But as far as I know we parted on good terms, and now I’ve seen them back on the market so I’m interested in talking to them again.

    But… when and how do I bring up our previous interactions for least awkwardness? Do I go through the proper application process again or just email the main person I talked with before? If the former, does an acknowledgement of this go in my cover letter? Do I need to adjust the rest of my cover letter? Do I just summarize what we talked about before? It’s a small company and I’d expect to be talking to the same people again, and it was recent enough that I’d be surprised not to at least ring a bell, so it’d be weird to act like it didn’t happen. But I also don’t want to just sweep in all “well you guys liked me before so I’ll just pick up where we left off and take the job kthx.”

    1. WellRed*

      I’d do the whole application process again and say something in the cover letter about how you met with them previously, had to withdraw but are very interested in the company. You could then send a quick email to that contact and tell them you applied.

  128. MulberryCandle*

    This probably doesn’t exist, but does anyone have any low-effort side hustle type jobs they could recommend? I would like to make some extra cash, but I work full time and have a family with small children, so I don’t really want to spend too much time away from them. During the day, I donate plasma at a place near my work, so I get a decent amount of money from that, but I would like something I could do from home as well. I’ve signed up for the paid survey things and stuff like that, but the payout is ridiculously low (like a $10 amazon card after you’ve done several hundred surveys). Thanks all!

    1. TooTiredToThink*

      Check out Rat Race Rebellion! I assume it’s still a good site. I got a few jobs on there – one I liked was a company – ACD Direct – that takes phone calls for various charities. Tho it was a bit annoying because the scripts were often hard-sell scripts and always trying to get us to “upsell” – there’s one charity in particular that I know does good work, but I shudder when I hear their name anymore. There are some mystery shopping jobs that are phone calls rather than going to visit. I can’t remember which site was the best but if you go to MysteryShoppingForum.com you’ll find a list of reputable companies. Finally – I think it was through RRR but there was one company that a few times a year does phone surveys with apartment complexes around the country. It was actually really good, but my hours were such I couldn’t do it. I can’t find the name of the company in my emails :(

      Oh, one other you might like is Lionbridge if they are hiring. They were strictly computer work.

      One warning though with the ones with phone calls – they often require quiet spaces to make/receive calls. Depends on your setup if that is something that is feasible with small children.

  129. Stood Up*

    Quick question – I was just stood up for a phone interview. I emailed back to see if we can reschedule, but I’m wondering – his phone number was in his email signature. Should I have called him? I decided against it because I figured that he probably got caught up in something else and if I called him he might not be prepared, have his questions in front of him, etc. Was that the right move?

    1. North Wind*

      I think you did the right thing. If you had missed the meeting and stood him up, a phone call would be better, but email feels right for this situation.

  130. North wind*

    Help! Weird communication issue with a client: Should I address it?

    A client sent me a question about why I chose a certain approach on an aspect of our project, but we both discussed this approach at length only two days ago in a recorded Zoom meeting. I explained in that meeting, multiple times, the trade-offs between two options, and he asked me to make two versions – one with each option – so he could test each one and decide which approach to take. I made both options and sent them to him.

    I started writing a response to his question, it’s a simple enough answer, but I can’t decide whether to address my confusion at his asking this question at all. This isn’t the first time he has seemed to be completely unaware of a conversation/decision we’ve made together, but it is the most glaring.

    I already know I don’t want to work with this client again when the project has wrapped up. Should I leave this unaddressed and just answer his question, or probe a bit to see if there is a better way for us to communicate? And if so, how might I word that that doesn’t sound, I don’t know, negative or accusatory or harsh?

    1. PollyQ*

      Many, if not most, people are better at absorbing information with their eyes than with their ears. Your client may be on the more extreme end of that, perhaps without realizing it, or perhaps is unwilling to demand visuals. Regardless, I wouldn’t bother with any “Hey, you know we discussed this already, right?” kind of communication, given that you know you won’t be working with him much longer. For any future conversations, I’d follow up with a detailed written summary of whatever you discussed and agreed on. Yeah, it’s extra work, but I assume you can bill him for it.

      It’s also possible he’s got a more widespread memory problem, but even there, a written summary can only help.

      1. North Wind*

        A written summary is a great idea, thanks.

        Yes, regarding visuals – what makes this so bizarre is that it was a Zoom meeting with screenshare. We were looking at the software while discussing the options, and then he watched me build out the first option (he wants to learn and have the video to reference to do it himself in the future), and asked me if I could finish the second option and send it to him. I sent it the same day.

        This was the whole entire meeting, and I recorded it at his request and sent him the recording (it’s my Zoom account).

        Once in every few interactions with him feels like a glitch in the matrix. I think I just need to wrap this up and move on.

    2. kiki*

      I would keep it brief but factual accounting of what y’all discussed. I’m thinking something like this: “In our last meeting, we discussed X and Y trade-offs. You asked me to make two versions for you decide on. We went with Y because you said A & B outweighed C & D.”

      If you’ve already decided not to work with this client again, I wouldn’t go through extra effort to find better ways to communicate, especially since you’ve already been communicating effectively. Some people really don’t have great memories or are so overloaded they’re not able to remember things. I don’t think any extra effort on your part is realistically going to head off those issues of his. The only thing I might do is start sending summary emails immediately following each meeting.

  131. Noah (He/They)*

    This is just a little PSA to double, triple, and quadruple check your submission materials before applying for a job. I just realized that the resume I’ve been applying to jobs with had a MAJOR error: the dates of my current job were supposed to be listed as “May 2019-Present”… but I accidentally had it down as “May 2019-August 2019”. I’ve been applying for jobs with a resume that made it look like I’ve been unemployed since 2019 and my most recent job only lasted three months. No wonder I haven’t been getting interviews!

    1. The New Wanderer*

      Oof, I’m glad you caught that! I hope you have better responses now!

      It also helps to have someone else review for you – I know I looked at my resume a dozen times and only saw the obvious-in-hindsight typo months into my job hunt.

  132. AnonyMouse*

    In late but maybe someone will see… I have to travel for my job, it’s really not optional, but I’m breastfeeding and long story short, I am realizing that I don’t want to be away from my six month old (or their older sibling!). I am supposed to travel twice in the next three months for 4 nights per trip. My role may be seeing even more travel in 2023. What do I do? Any other breastfeeding moms quit over this or found a way to get an accommodation at least til baby is a year old?

    1. Rara Avis*

      Where I work, breastfeeding excuses you from travel. They were still going to send me on a day trip, but were unable to answer such questions as, “What kind of space is available at the location for pumping?” “Who will cover for me while I pump?” “Is there a refrigerator on site and washing facilities?” They ended up sending someone else and having me cover their onsite assignment.

  133. Rachel*

    I posted several Fridays ago about applying for a new job. I’ve been mostly happy where I have worked the past several years except there are always budget cuts and never raises, and no chance to move up to new positions. Well, I kept my eyes open for new opportunities for a few months and was very selective. I ended up applying for only one job, made it through several interviews and was a finalist, and today got an offer! It is a good offer but a few thousand less than what I asked for, so I asked if they could go any higher and they said they would get back to me on Monday. I am probably overthinking things but I felt sooo awkward asking for more money. I have been cringing for the past 3 hours since the phone call. But I’m also proud of myself for doing it! And proud of myself for having a 100% success rate on this job search! (I plan to accept even if they can’t go higher.) Thanks once again to the AAM interview guide! This is the 3rd time I have used it in 7 years and it’s been invaluable to me.

  134. Under the Sea of Resumes*

    I work in homeless prevention, and I read a cover letter today that claimed that they a competitive edge because they are quote “inspired by the poor unfortunate souls” and they are the “only candidate qualifed for the position, because inspiration is something you cannot teach.” I cannot Are you Ursula my dude?

    1. KoiFeeder*

      You know, I’m not an expert in the subject by any means, but I don’t think I want that person working in homeless prevention.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        Yup, it sounds like they think of people at risk of homelessness as some kind of puppy or children who need advice from the “nice middle-class person TM.” My guess is that they would push their solutions on people rather than listening to what the needs of the people were.

  135. Jenny Islander*

    Reality check: If you were hired for financial data entry on the basis of an interview in which you repeatedly stated that you were not a bookkeeper or accountant, and your employer decides after years that it makes more sense for you to be a bookkeeper or accountant, and they ask you to do things that a financial data entry person should not be doing because not educated, and you point out that hiring a chef and then telling them to rewire the kitchen is not good for the restaurant…are you being insubordinate? Are you not in tune with the goals of the organization? Because I said four times at my employee assessment today that asking me to do this is not good for the organization, and every time, the people doing the assessment responded as if I were complaining about work I didn’t like. There’s supposed to be an in-house bookkeeper but they left and now there just. Isn’t? For. Reasons? And nobody appears to be aware of this but me?

    1. fhqwhgads*

      Depends on what was said and how it was said. I’ve known plenty of people who became bookkeepers without formal training. Did you ask them to train you or get you training? Would you be willing to take on these duties if they did?

      1. Jenny Islander*

        I was informed that I can’t be expected to have present management adhere to promises made by previous management, and also told to use “my own time” to turn myself into a bookkeeper. With money I pull out of my armpit and time I was wasting on sleep and hygiene, I guess.

        Oh, and this stuff was piled on top of what I was already doing but I will be fired if I work any extra hours. (I get paid hourly.)

        1. PollyQ*

          The first thing is true–corporations are allowed to change their minds just as people are. The rest of it is total BS, though, so I’d start job-hunting immediately and intensively. They might just be unreasonable, but they also might be looking for an excuse to get rid of you, sorry to say.

        2. The New Wanderer*

          If they have a business need for your role to include bookkeeping, they need to pay for your training during work hours because it’s a job requirement. It does sound like that’s what they want in lieu of hiring a separate (trained) accountant.

          But, instead they’re saying it’s a requirement of the job that you now become a bookkeeper so learn on your own or be fired? No bet on whether they’d raise your pay to reflect the new responsibilities either. They want you to solve their problem for them at your cost, and that’s not how that works. I’m sorry, I agree with the immediate job hunting advice.

          1. Jenny Islander*

            Thanks to you and to PollyQ. I am unfortunately stuck with a very specific set of job parameters and a restricted driving area, so I haven’t seen anything I can apply for in the past two months. But, yes, I need to get out of there. They simply don’t get that they can’t turn me into a bookkeeper by telling me to be a bookkeeper, and that’s the tip of a very large iceberg. I’m advertising for a job this week, with a new email address just for replies. Wish me luck.

  136. Nines*

    Looking for advice/tips on how people have thought through tough decisions about changing jobs. I’m a entry level social worker. Been there three years, two of them spent getting licensed. I’m good at my job. Get good productivity stats and praise from higher ups. I have taken on a number of extra roles that I genuinely enjoy, not because I feel obligated. I like my job. I have a particularly good team and supervisor when compared to other teams in the department.

    But a job that’s at the next pay grade just opened and I qualify for it. I put in my application and interview next week. It sounds like a lot more work (and as the next level up, it’s meant to be). It’s a direction I would be interested in going and career wise would be a very good move. I would be doing more outreach and other tasks I excel at. I think I would like working for the woman I would work under. There are many positives to the new job.
    But I’m not sure I’m ready! And I’m wary I’m walking away from a job that I like, that’s easy and allows me to do many other “extra” projects to a job that will be a stretch and will push me, it could be really great, but could also totally crush me into burn out oblivion…
    How do people make this decision?? Success or failure stories? I may also be pondering for nothing. I’m not guaranteed the job by any means. But I’m a strong candidate, and I feel like I should have some idea whether I would take it or not.
    (Apologies for the grammar errors, it’s late)

  137. PS*

    I need some advice regarding à big career decision.
    I live in à small city with little job opportunity for me. There are basically only two potential employers for me. I work for one and the second one is my customer.
    I have bien at my job à few years, and getting bored. I want more challenge and responsability. There was a reorganisation a few months ago, it made me realize that I should have told my boss sooner about needing new challenges. When I discussed it with him, he told me he did not know when there would be an opportunity for me.
    I had made my peace with that, and decided to excel at my job while I waited fo an opportunity.
    However, I was approched by my customer and the want me to work for them. I do not know what to do. I LOVE my company. I love the people, I really believe in our mission and I enjoy immense perks (short hours, great flexibility,…).
    On the the other hand, the other company offert more challenge, and a significant raise (30% at least). And it feels good that they believe I can do more.
    I am filled with grief at the idea of leaving my company and with dread at the idea of staying at an entre lever job. Peace advice :)

    1. Rachel*

      “I am filled with grief at the idea of leaving my company and with dread at the idea of staying at an entry level job.”

      This is exactly where I’m at as well. My company hasn’t given me a raise in 4 years and a few months ago, predicted no raises in the next 5 years at least, because of budget cuts. Hearing that helped me to know it was the right time to look for something else. I got an offer with another company yesterday, am negotiating now, and hope to accept their final offer on Monday. It will be around a 50% increase in pay for me. I dread leaving but I will go out on good terms and stay in touch with those I have worked with who are friends. You can always go back later if an opportunity is right. Just don’t burn any bridges. Sometimes you have to walk away from something that you still really love but isn’t quite serving you anymore.

  138. Database Developer Dude*

    I was chastised at work by someone who is not my supervisor because I shared my salary in the normal flow of a conversation I was having with someone else.

    I’ve not responded yet, but I’m trying to decide whether I should, and what I should say….

    1. fhqwhgads*

      Unless you’re management, why not go with something like “I was taken aback to your reaction to (whatever you said). Discussing pay is a legally protected right.”
      Or if it might turn into a big thing, it may not be worth saying anything. Depends on what you know of the person.

    2. kiki*

      I would say something like, “I think sharing salary information is important as it helps prevent salary discrepancies, especially for women and people of color. It’s also a legally protected right. “

  139. Eggs for Breakfast*

    My whole team was remote since before the pandemic, and we are suddenly going to be in the office in cubicles three days a week. How can we make this sterile sea of cubes a bit fun? Rituals, decor?
    This is at a very large company that has a weird mix of fun and seriousness.

  140. sigh*

    I’m just curious. Does anyone here own multiple businesses? How does that work? Do you hire a great management team but are involved in the overall aspect of the business. I have a few side business ideas. Ideally I know starting them at the same time would not be the best idea. I have business plans for all. I’d like to make an overall plan on how to implement these 8 ideas over the next 10-20 years. My end results (for me) are to earn a few personal financial goals while being able to competitively compensate my employees and grow these businesses. I would love to have “Smith Company” with 8 different divisions. I’m just curious if anyone has owned multiple businesses. Please share your stories!

  141. Tell me about Australia!*

    I hope this doesn’t elicit major eyerolls among my Aussie friends here but I’m OBSESSED with Kath & Kim and I have questions about a few tropes or common things I see. Some may need you to be familiar with the US and Aus:
    1) How popular was the show while it was on? Did families enjoy it equally like we did with Friends or Home Improvement or Seinfeld?
    2) How do Footy Franks compare to our regular hot dogs? Kim really seems to be chomping through those things like they require some might. Hot dogs can be chewed by those with no teeth over here.
    3) What is a bumbalina? Kim makes several references to what seems like a toy that looks like a butt but google is failing me.
    4) Does Target seem nearly identical here as it does there? From the show and my subsequent exploration online, it seems like they are the same exact store but are not associated in any way.
    5) Do you call all your meals tea?

  142. tiasp*

    TEACHERS – most useful websites for resources (paid or free), forums, etc? I’m on a full time teaching contract this year teaching courses that I’ve never done before (jr & sr (-2s) English Language Arts) except for a couple months covering a mat leave that had a couple of them. Classes start this week and I am SO STRESSED OUT. Don’t have access to the teacher’s resources who normally teaches these classes – just the texts and a few teaching resources from the school library and whatever I can find online.

  143. tiasp*

    TEACHERS – best online resources (paid or free – I would HAPPILY pay for lesson/unit/long range plans) and teacher forums? Classes start in a couple days and I am on a one year contract teaching ELA (gr 8 and the high school -2s). Don’t have access to the regular teacher’s resources, so I just have what things I could find in the school library and online. Classes start in a couple days and I am STRESSED OUT. Except for a couple months covering a mat leave, I’ve never taught any of these courses and normally just sub.

    General advice on planning and or what to expect regarding how much I can expect students to accomplish would be appreciated as well (e.g. for the -2s, students are supposed to be given enough time to complete all assignments in class; no homework unless they waste all their class time). This will be in Alberta. Had a long stretch of SAHM before I came back to subbing, so there are probably lots of resources that I don’t even know exist.

    1. Flower necklace*

      The Teachers Pay Teachers website is what I use. I know people object to the idea of teachers having to pay each other for their materials, but that site has a wide range of resources, both free and paid.

      1. tiasp*

        Thank you. I do use that one. I’ve found a few gems, but sometimes I get something and it’s not quite right. And I think I’m a little overwhelmed by the choices — I need to just make a decision and get going. I guess the normal process would be to keep improving your plans year after year, but except for a couple months last year in one of the classes I’m doing this year, I’ve never taught the same subject or grade more than once. So I think I’m a little bogged down with thinking I have just one shot at this so I need to get it JUST RIGHT the first time.

        I have found a few things that I think will be helpful and I’m probably going to just stick with genre units (short story, novel, film, etc). It won’t be anything groundbreaking, but I think that’s the easiest way for me to think about it right now, and I have a family and tons of other obligations and I just can’t spend all my waking hours on school.

  144. Intern*

    I’d like advice on giving presentations at work — and public speaking in general. I tend to freeze, go blank, and doubt myself.
    For background —
    I’m an intern at a manufacturing warehouse and was given a process improvement project. My presentation will be them reading the report I wrote then asking questions/giving feedback.

  145. Jane Smith*

    This may be too late to get feedback and I’ll probably repost it next Friday, but…!

    I recently got a new boss. To put it simply, they think my name is a prank. And I understand to a degree. Despite living in the US for the past six years, I’m Irish and have a name that’s definitely awkward to the typical American (think Aoife or Eilidh, but worse somehow – my name has a silent ‘m’). It’s easy to pronounce but the pronunciation is pretty divorced from how it’s spelled. Most people spell it incorrectly. That’s fine. But my boss has decided my name is a prank they don’t have to take seriously. At one point, they remarked that because I’m white, this isn’t something I have any right to be offended by.

    Any advice?

Comments are closed.