open thread – September 16-17, 2022

by Alison Green on September 16, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Ashley Armbruster*

    I’m in the process of interviewing (5 total interviews) at a startup for a marketing role. I had an interview with the hiring manager the other day, and I wanted to get others’ perspectives.

    – It’s at the series-C funding level, it has $700 million in funds, about 400 employees (grown 500% since last year). The product is out and seems legit (think software), which the market and product is expected to grow this decade
    – HR said they are currently in the process of putting together descriptions and goals for each role, like “this is what a manager needs to do”, which I like because a lot of places don’t really have this in place
    – When I asked the hiring manager if the current marketing plans were hitting goals, she said she couldn’t give an answer and that they hadn’t gone through and really audited all the marketing channels. Which is setting off my red flag alarm…

    I’m going to continue the interview process and I liked the vibe of the hiring manager but the fact they don’t know if the marketing plans are hitting goals, especially with so much employee growth, makes me say hmmmmm. I think they want this role to come in and some auditing, which is fair, but shouldn’t they have some idea on if the plans are meeting goals? I don’t want to get stuck in a position where the higher ups don’t understand how to evaluate marketing and where I’d encounter constant pushback. I’m also not familiar with startups.

    1. Ann Ominous*

      I think that’s a valuable question to ask them. Plus, HR may not know the answer to the question you asked; is there someone that would know who you could ask?

    2. seps*

      I actually expect to go into most roles where the higher ups don’t understand how to evaluate marketing. That doesn’t mean you’ll encounter pushback – that will depend on them! Some higher ups will just be thankful you’re there and you’re the expert and will be happy to listen to you. Maybe instead of asking them if they are hitting goals, you can ask how they would evaluate the success of the marketing plans and what your role in evaluation/communicating those results would be.

      What level of role is this? Are there other marketing professionals? Would you (or your supervisor) be on the leadership team?

      1. Ashley Armbruster*

        “you can ask how they would evaluate the success of the marketing plans and what your role in evaluation/communicating those results would be.”

        That’s a good point!

      2. The Real Fran Fine*

        That doesn’t mean you’ll encounter pushback – that will depend on them! Some higher ups will just be thankful you’re there and you’re the expert and will be happy to listen to you.

        This. I’m not in marketing, but in a related role (comms), and I can confirm higher ups generally don’t know how to gauge the success of communication plans/campaigns and rely on us to tell them whether or not these things were a success.

    3. irene adler*

      Suggestion: procure their SEC 10-K filing. The more recent the better.

      This is a public document that is made available to anyone who invests in them. Usually companies have these on their websites (look under “investors” or something similar to that). It is an annually filed document with the SEC.

      Inside you’ll find all kinds of info pertaining to the company. This includes: the company’s financial activity and a full rundown of risks, legalities, liabilities, corporate agreements, operations, and market performance.

      2. Jamie*

        This isn’t a publicly traded company if they’re at the series C funding level, so they definitely won’t have filed a 10-K and likely don’t have any publicly available financial information.

      3. Anon-E-Mouse*

        If this company is at the Series C stage, it won’t have gone public yet and won’t be filing 10-Ks (which are a kind of annual report that contains detailed information for investors that the SEC requires publicly traded companies to make publicly available).

        Earlier stage companies that haven’t gone public yet aren’t subject to the same requirements.

    4. PX*

      I recently joined a scale up (at the level your talking, thats generally defined more as a scaling company than a real start up) and can say that this isnt unusual. They have probably been hiring in engineering roles and other functions are catching up. How big is the current marketing team? If its anything like where I am, its probably been a team of 1-2 so far and they have been firefighting the entire time. Things like goal setting and tracking havent been a priority, so no one does it. It may seem odd for a function like marketing which, when well established, can so easily track metrics like those – but unsurprising if their focus has been on other things.

      I’d be more interested in things like, what are their actual plans and goals for the position and team. Are you expected to bring in processes and procedures? If so, what level of support from senior leadership is there for this. What tools are available for you? Basically, look forward at what they want, what its like and what is available (and if you like those answers) rather than back at what they have been doing.

      1. darlingpants*

        Yeah sounds like a startup. Lots of things that people are like “oooh, yeah we really should be doing/measuring that. Thanks for bringing it up, do you wanna do it?”

        If you like building things with a lot of control over the design then this is a good job for you. If you want someone to already know how to audit stuff and have a good record of past audits then… probably not the job for you.

        1. The Real Fran Fine*

          That’s a good sign. That means you shouldn’t need to do everything yourself and you could delegate and even get some help implementing processes and procedures for the audits and campaign executions.

        2. Hiring Mgr*

          Given that growth in such a short time span, I don’t think it’s really a red flag in and of itself that they don’t know whether the campaigns hit their specific goals due to the chaos of going from one to twenty.. Though they should still have a general idea overall of what’s been working well/poorly

          It MAY be a red flag for you individually if you’re looking for a more structured environment.

      3. Miette*

        THIS. I’ve worked for many startups over the years and honestly, if you can start to help them make sense of basic metrics they’ll love you.

        Another angle to consider: My work has been in B2B (software too, if your note is true and not for illustration), and as important as tracking marketing metrics will be, ensuring the sales processes are synched up well with the lead flow is just as vital. If the sales funnel is a black hole then whatever you do to demonstrate growth in KPIs may not even matter.

      4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I was going to say this. My husband works for a scale up at this level and they are just now getting these sort of operational systems in place. It’s normal! And it’s important to know that it’s normal, because you’ll encounter a lot of that kind of stuff if you go work there and that can either be invigorating (the company is nimble; depending on your role, you can help create these structures, etc.) or exhausting (why does nobody else seem to care that we’re not measuring the effectiveness of our campaigns?).

    5. Susan Calvin*

      Ok, so at 400 people they you should not be the first marketer they hire – however, with the speed they’ve been going, it might well be that their existing marketing team has only been there for a few months, max, so not having their processes really in order might be more or less to be expected. If you want to figure out if it’s a red flag, try to get a bit more history on how that part of the business developed (when and who was the first dedicated marketer, what was the growth and turnover, etc). Then, even if it’s just regular growth pains on steroids, decide if you can live with that level of chaos – because that isn’t for everyone, even when it’s going as well as it’s ever going to be.

    7. Oscar Martinez*

      I work at a very similar sounding startup. Not having a handle on the metrics you asked about is a red flag! My company posts weekly updates to all employees on certain key financial metrics/goals for the year. New business and customer retention.

      1. Squishy*

        I’d also be wary of this data point in context of the current climate – lots of companies who spent the last couple of years spending to scale up and chase growth are now laying off staff to double down on revenue. Lack of good measurement around marketing spend is worrying. The answer the way you described it sounded kind of evasive to me, like either they’re covering for the fact that they’re not hitting targets or they haven’t been setting targets…

    8. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      Startups are a mixed bag. You are right to ask those questions, but to be fair it probably something HR would not know.
      They might be looking for someone to help set those goals and metrics, so it’ll be good to probe these marketing specific questions with the CMO or President or whomever has oversight of Marketing.

      I was just thinking that as I interview, I want to know about the marketing budget, who has ownership, and what level of spend I’m in charge of.

    9. Fork*

      I’m not nearly at the level in my career that you are, and know nothing about marketing. However it seems to me that it could be that someone at the company has a general idea, just not this hiring manager. Or, the hiring manager does have a general idea, but they didn’t want to give non-specifics that turned out to be incorrect.

      I personally wouldn’t give much weight to liking the vibe of the hiring manager, as most people can put off a likeable vibe during the interview process. On the other hand, it could be reflective of the company culture and that you wouldn’t necessarily receive the pushback you describe being worried about here. Is this a role where you’d be taking the lead on marketing? If so, and if the higher-ups are reasonable, then it seems likely that you wouldn’t receive a lot of pushback on marketing if you’re meeting goals and staying within budget. But, take my input with a grain of salt as someone who doesn’t have any experience with what you’re talking about here, just someone who enjoys reading and learning a lot from Alison’s blog.

  2. Too many post it notes*

    When I took my current job (Teapot Maker) about 3 years ago, it was a 45% salary bump. Anyway, now 3 years later, my company is a hot mess after some horrid leadership changes and “a sinking sink” is putting it lightly. My current salary is about $7K higher than what I started at. As I’m looking at other jobs on LinkedIn and Indeed, I’m seeing most of the Teapot Maker and even Senior Teapot Maker positions (est. salary) are 15% – 20% less than what I’m currently making.

    Has anyone experienced this? I’ve been gunning for my next salary to be 10% higher than my current salary. Should I reset my expectations and try to go for my current salary for my next role? I live in a HCOL area, so while I’m paid well, I’m not swimming around in oodles of cash. What should I say my salary requirements are?

    1. ferrina*

      First figure out if the market supports your expectations. Do some research on what salaries tend to be for the types of roles that you are looking at (preferably focusing on the salaries in your area). If your salary was higher than the market average, think about what might need to happen for you to get that higher salary. Do you have more experience? Certain skills? What makes you valuable?

    2. muffin*

      Same problem here, so will watch this eagerly. Highest paid university in the area, ten years of experience, six on my current team. Looking to move on, but salaries elsewhere make it hard to leave.

    3. BellyButton*

      My last company paid very well, a good 15% above what was expected for most roles. It was mostly to attract top talent and then trap us into the dysfunction! Ha! When I finally decided to leave I knew I would have to take a pay cut, and thankfully I am in a good enough position that I could do that. I did ask for the top of the range for my level and position. I am sure I missed out on some interviews because of it. The organization I ended up hiring into, was a significant pay cut. However, I am so happy at this new org and don’t care that I have to tighten my budget up a bit. I took about 3 months to pick the right place for me. It was way more about leadership and culture than the money for me. I was so tired of what I had been dealing with.

      So I guess my point is, that you just have to weigh the pros and cons.

      1. Too many post it notes*

        “It was mostly to attract top talent and then trap us into the dysfunction!”

        Right? lol

        1. Quick Chat*

          Yes, and mine are really chafing! I hate that I’m choosing money over happiness but Ive got kids to care for and the only way to live on less is to move away from this area where they have built relationships… the youngest will graduate in five years and then I am fleeing!

    4. Bagpuss*

      Do you thinkyou are comparing like with like? i.e is the job title consistent with the work and responsibilities you currently have, or are you effectively doing a differnet / higher level job but haven’t had a title chabge to reflect that?

      I wonder whether this is a situation whereit might be helpful to speak to a recruiter to get a bit mre insight into realistic salary ranges. If you are getting paid above market rates you may find you need to reset your expectations or be prepared for a long search. that said, there’s no harm in asking what flexibility there is on the alary range – depending on how difficut roles like yours are to fill, it may be that there is more room for negotiation than the listing may suggest.

    5. Green Goose*

      I work at an education nonprofit and I am paid well for what I do. I’m getting pretty burned out and I’ve looked around and I was definitely dismayed to see that I would likely need to take a salary cut if I were to go somewhere else. So this is making me start to look into EdTech, but my concern there is that the work-life balance might be worse.
      I’m really involved in member organizations so I pay close attention to other types of jobs that exist or when people talk about a good organization and then I pay attention to those company’s career pages.

    6. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      It probably depends a bit on your exact career field, but I would ignore the LinkedIn “estimated salary range” and only look at actual posted salary ranges. In my field (fundraising) there is a HUGE range for very similar skills depending on the size of the organization. In my job search I’ve interviewed for roles paying anywhere from $60k-125k (and the low and high ends of that range had the exact same job title!).

      I was recently in this exact boat – I started a new job at roughly 10% above what I had been making, but then needed to make an abrupt exit and was really worried I’d need to take a 10-15% paycut to get back to work. Instead, I just accepted an offer making 30% more! I hope you have the same luck!

    7. ItsNotJustAboutSalary*

      Sometimes that happens. Also, it can be helpful to consider the full compensation package -if you get more time off, a more flexible schedule, more/better insurance, etc it can go a long way toward making up for a salary drop. That said, salary drops will stay with you for a long time – I make less money now than I did 10 years ago – and companies can change benefits on you so you can get screwed over when that happens (which isn’t often but isn’t never).

      In my experience the going salary for a position is whatever the company will pay for it and that varies wildly, especially if you are technical or have certain skills/experience employers find appealing. Where are you getting your data? Salary.com and other such sites are not even in the right ballpark in most cases. If I relied on them I’d be making what I made 25 years ago and starving to death. The only reliable data comes from talking to companies or (sometimes) good recruiters.

  3. Cautiously Hopeful*

    A week or so ago I was contacted by someone seeking a new employee in a role very much like my current one. I did not put a lot of stock in it, but after an initial conversation, it looks like it may be an excellent fit.

    The company is much larger than the one I currently work for, but the work would be almost the same, plus the opportunity to hone some new skills. The pay range is much higher than it is at my current company and the job is fully remote.

    I got a message saying they’d like to set me up for interviews and so I guess it’s moving forward. Thing is. . . it sounds almost too good to be true.

    Help me out here: besides the usual questions about duties, organizational structure, and culture, what should I watch for or try to negotiate? (My current job is my first after leaving academia, so there’s probably stuff most people know that I don’t.)

    1. Sunshine*

      I witnessed a potential new hire do a site visit with multiple sit downs with people at all levels. She was interviewing the position. She ended up taking a different job.
      I very much don’t like to inconvenience people and would never have thought to ask for such an opportunity. But in the future (particularly in a job seekers market) I would absolutely ask for more opportunity to feel out the position.

    2. BellyButton*

      I really like to meet the team I will be in, not just the hiring manager. I have asked in the past if that is possible after meeting with the hiring manager and if they don’t propose it. Some have agreed and some have looked at me like I gad 3 heads.

      I also ask – what skills/knowledge would round out the team? This will usually lead the manager to open up about the experience levels of the team.

    3. Rowan*

      There can be a culture shift to adjust to when switching from a small org to a large one, in terms of increased bureaucracy – sometimes frustrating levels of bureaucracy. One question I ask is, “If you need a new piece of hardware or software for your job, how difficult is it to get it? How long does it take?” It seems like a very specific question, but it can give a good indication of how much red tape there is between you and doing your job.

      1. Foley*

        I love this. Such an insightful question and something I wish I’d known going into any job! One job had semi-custom software so reliant on MS Access… (ironically we built software, but couldn’t manage to have anything good for ourselves).

        1. The Real Fran Fine*

          (ironically we built software, but couldn’t manage to have anything good for ourselves).

          This is the company I work for in a nutshell, lol.

      2. Small fishes*

        I work in a very small org, and we were interviewing someone at a large org, and I was so confused by the question– like, I don’t know how long it would take to download software, usually not THAT long but my wifi isn’t the best when I work from home… She apparently told my boss it was the best possible answer to make it clear how little red tape we had!

    4. Green Goose*

      What things are most important to you? I would make sure to ask about those things. For example, for me, work-life balance is really important as well as flexibility to work remote since I will have two young children. I would make sure to ask about how often people WFH or how that is perceived in the company.

      1. Betty*

        Also things like sick time, and how rigidly it’s enforced (if you need to leave a little early for an appointment, is that OK flexing, or do you have to account for every minute from sick leave? Can you use sick time to take a kid to a medical appointment?)

    5. Cautiously Hopeful*

      Thanks, all. I will be making a list of these ideas and using them.

      You’re the best. Have a great weekend!

  4. just wondering what's out there*

    I posted a little over a month ago asking to hear what jobs former library branch managers transitioned into. I’ve been doing some thinking since then about what parts of my job I enjoy and what parts I don’t. My conclusion is that I think I would be happier in a role where operations management is a much larger part of the job – possibly with a side of strategic planning and/or communications. My current role, I would say, is probably about 40% people management, 40% customer service, 20% operations/administrative/strategy (a little squishy depending on whether you consider schedules to be operations or people management). It’s that last 20 percent I enjoy the most, so hopefully the math bears out why I would like to change roles.

    So today’s question is: if you’re in operations, can you tell me all the things? Should I expect I’ll need to start at a lower role, like operations coordinator? Is this one of those jobs where you can’t really break into it at this level if you haven’t been in that specific industry before (I suspect maybe)? TIA for any advance, recommendations, questions to consider, etc.

    1. PX*

      Operations can mean different things by industry, so be careful when you start job hunting! For example where I am, operations is things like processes, procedures and *how* people work (the bit I do). It is also, “day to day operations of running the business eg answering customer questions, system maintenance and configuration etc”. So figure out which one it is you like!

      Then, I’d say mine your current job experience for all the examples that support it. You *can* break into different industries if you can show transferable skills, but its always hard and you will need to craft a great story about how/why it makes sense. If you can find a first step where your current library experience is at least understood that would be the easiest – but I know its not always possible.

      1. just wondering what's out there*

        Thanks! Yes, I have definitely noticed that each job posting for “operations” seems to be for wildly different jobs, ranging from cashier to office manager to COO.

    2. Anon-E-Mouse*

      This isn’t an answer to your specific question but if you’re planning to transition out of library branch management, you might want to see what options might be available in the growing field of knowledge management and innovation at law firms and regulated businesses like large financial institutions etc. There is a need (with actual demand catching up) for people with library science training combined with strategy, management and operations experience.

    3. Midwest is Best*

      So, I work in operations for a performing arts org, and my main duties are 1. being the “hub” of the “hub and spoke” metaphor. Much of the organizational communication filters through me from one department to another (or many others), 2. I maintain the organization’s main calendar, which, for a performing arts org, is our lifeblood, and 3. budget creation and management. Basically, making sure everyone knows what’s going on, when it’s happening, and how much it’s going to cost. :)

      1. just wondering what's out there*

        This sounds like a cool job! I was an office manager at a theatre, briefly, a long time ago, and I mostly really liked it. (I didn’t enjoy selling sponsorships, though I did okay at it.)
        What was your path to this role, if you’re open to sharing?

  5. Partner's job*

    Does anyone have experience with a job that puts requirements/limitations on your spouse/partner?

    I’ve heard that finance limits what your household can invest in, and I’ve heard that jobs with clearances can have restrictions as well. My husband is in the process of accepting a job with juvenile offenders, and he was told that both he and I would be expected to hibernate or deactivate any social media accounts.

    I’m not a user of Facebook/Insta/etc., but I asked my husband to get clarification on whether this directive includes LinkedIn. I can’t be shut out from the ability to look for a job myself, that’s completely unreasonable.

    1. Quinalla*

      Yes, spouse in finance and we are both limited on investing because it is assumed any insider info he would likely share with me (even accidently). I don’t like it especially since he doesn’t have any insider info as he works in IT, but I accept it and it does make sense as in theory it is possible he could. Basically for us we do investing with a firm that knows how to pre-clear everything with his company, so it basically just means trades are a little slower which we are doing mutual funds, so that really doesn’t matter much. And slower is like a day or two, not weeks or months, so it’s reasonable.

      Not had to deal with social media stuff, but I guess that does make sense for some jobs for sure.

      1. Clisby*

        Similar here. Most of our investments are in stock funds, though, and the restriction applies only if we were buying individual stocks.

    2. jackthedog*

      My spouse has a top secret clearance and neither of us have had to restrict social media usage. However, we do have travel restrictions for some international destinations and it requires a little more leg work on our end when we go out of the country.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        I have the same, same conditions. No restrictions on social media usage (other than not divulging information I come across in the line of duty, of course) and some restriction on international travel.

    3. NotBatman*

      I have a good friend who works for the U.S. government (that’s all he’s allowed to tell us — that he works for the government) and his partner is not permitted any public social media accounts, nor is she permitted to post about him. I believe she had to agree to “friend” a monitoring account on some sites, but that she was allowed to keep her accounts as long as the monitor didn’t auto-flag her partner’s name or face on any posts. That said, Uncle Sam obviously has a very big budget for that kind of monitoring.

      For LinkedIn, could you explore half-solutions by slightly altering your name? So if your full name is Jane Eyre, could you become Jane E. or Jane Rochester or Jay Eyre or J.E. Rochester or J. Eyre Rochester, etc.? That, along with having a profile picture that doesn’t obviously signal your identity (a large group of people that includes you, a very small photo of you far away, a non-face image) could prevent any privacy leaks for your husband’s clients while still allowing you a public face for job-hunting. That said, you’d have to run any such half-solution by his employer before committing.

      1. Database Developer Dude*

        Most government places aren’t supersecret. This is out of the ordinary. Not saying it isn’t true, and in fact it probably is very true…but such instances are rare.

    4. Intermittent Introvert*

      When my son began teaching high school, he changed his name on Facebook to his middle name. It made him less findable for students. But family and those close to him recognize the name.

    5. M*

      I work and live at a boarding school. My spouse is required to pass annual background checks. He is self-employed but cannot conduct his business from our home because the school is a 501 so can’t have a for-profit using the same address. Our entire campus is a safe-school zone so infractions that in an off-campus home that would be relatively minor (say, small possession of marijuana) by my spouse or my children will result in both criminal charges for them and immediate termination of my position (which would leave us homeless).

    6. WellRed*

      I’m guessing this may be safety precaution? Or being extra cautious since he’s working with kids? But I’d have him clarify this really includes your LinkedIn, d we such I seriously doubt and us totally unreasonable.

    7. beep beep*

      I work in IT for a financial service, and I have to declare “outside business activities” like holding leadership or financial responsibilities in government, at least partially owning a business, etc., as well as any such positions a partner holds. I’ve never actually had to declare anything, but if I did I’m pretty sure there’d be some talks about Not doing that :P

    8. Kay*

      A family member works as a teacher, but he was just told to lock down his privacy settings. But I used to work for a summer camp, and there was a big hairy situation one year because a kid tracked down her counselor’s Snapchat, friended her without the counselor noticing, then saw some pictures of the counselor smoking. The kid’s mom tried (unsuccessfully) to sue, iirc.

    9. Ann Furthermore*

      This is probably at least partially a safety precaution. My best friend’s late husband was a corrections officer at a federal prison. The cars of all the officers and their spouses have license plates with scrambled numbers to prevent an inmate from using them to find out someone’s address.

      Going by your middle name or some other name on FB and Twitter would probably be OK, and I wouldn’t think that LinkedIn would matter since people don’t tend to post personal information on that anyway.

    10. Rocket Woman*

      I have a security clearance working in the private sector as a government contractor. I have to report any foreign contacts I am connected with on social media, there are certain countries I am not allowed to visit, and I have to report any foreign travel before and after my trip. I am also not allowed to have Tik Tok or certain apps on my work phone for security reasons nor can I take any company property out of the country. None of these restrictions extend to my partner.

    11. Anonymous for this*

      I work for a major stock exchange — my husband and I both cannnot manage any of our own investments, since I have access to all of the real-time information on trading activity, prices, regulatory insider information disclosures, and similar.

      Neither of us are particularly interested in managing our own investments and the rule doesn’t apply to him getting shares in his own employer via their company share plan provided he follows their rules if he wants to sell them again, so other than a bit more paperwork each year we were both fine with it.

      I assume the rule re: social media is more of a safety issue in your case. They might be able to make an exception for LinkedIn provided you don’t share any information on it that would make it obvious where you live/vacation/hang out? Would there be a way to Name your current employer without specifying which site you are employed at?

    12. RagingADHD*

      When I worked at an investment bank we both had limitations on our investments, and I was just an EA. Practically speaking, it wasn’t an issue because at the time we only had company 401Ks with age-tracked portfolios – no self-directed investment accounts. So all we had to do was disclose that.

    13. Maggie*

      It’s for your own safety due to the fact that he’ll be working with people who’ve committed potentially violent crimes. It’s not so that you don’t post anything offensive. They don’t want your regular hangouts or home to be something people can figure out.

    14. Silverose*

      I’ve worked in jobs that had strict social media policies for ME, but not my spouse, and they didn’t require me to close my accounts – just couldn’t friend clients or their families, couldn’t post about things that happened at work or post anything that compromised confidential information or looked like it was an official opinion of the agency or company. And I worked with juveniles on probation and families involved with CPS.

    15. Elle Woods*

      Friends of mine both work in the criminal justice system (probation officer, prison guard). They are not allowed to have social media accounts. I don’t know if that includes LinkedIn but it might. They explained that it’s for their own protection as well as that of their family and friends.

    1. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

      It sounds like the employer is just…taking the spouse’s word for all this? Alarmed that the drunken rantings of a spouse at a holiday party are informing promotional decisions.

      1. Librarian of SHIELD*

        And the fact that the criminal record was sealed should mean it shouldn’t need to be disclosed on a job application, so the boss’s accusation of lying doesn’t hold water either. I’m hard side-eyeing both the husband and the boss on this one.

        1. Mid*

          Same. Sealed is sealed. Unless it’s for high level government clearance, at which point they would have the ability to see the record, sealed or not. If they didn’t know about the offense already, they didn’t need it disclosed to them. And then the manager spreading it to other people in the company, even if they’re his bosses, is not okay, because it was not information he was entitled to know in the first place.

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          Yeah, this is crap on piece of crap bread. I agree with the poster at reddit saying she should consult with an employment attorney. And then I think she should get a divorce attorney.

    2. Purple Cat*

      Wow. That husband was so in the wrong, it’s unbelievable. And the audacity to think she should still buy him an expensive gift when she is no longer getting the bump in pay? (And why was HE getting a gift after HER promotion anyway?)
      The company seems pretty lousy too. IANAL, but if her record was sealed, wasn’t it like it didn’t happen? Especially if she was a juvenile?

      1. Clisby*

        Assuming this is in the US, I don’t see why it would make a difference. I’m not aware that “people with sealed criminal records” is any kind of protected class.

    3. Purple Jello*

      Lots of breaches in test here.

      Can’t he return the item or cancel the order if it hasn’t shipped already?

    4. Aphrodite*

      I figure the idiot husband didn’t just mess with her career but his own as well. (Which is, of course, delightful in its own way.) Would anyone as CEO trust a subordinate who would (1) get that drunk to talk to his boss and (2) disclose private and damaging information? That’s husband’s career at that company as well as his marraige is toast.

      1. Peeklay*

        It doesn’t sound like the husband works there too, it sounds like partners we’re invited to this event

  7. hamsterpants*

    What’s the least awkward way to navigate pregnancy in a male-dominated workplace? I haven’t told anyone besides my boss but we’re in office and I am in the third trimester and will take 8 weeks off for the birth so people will figure it out eventually. I’m friendly with plenty of people here but there are a few who might be weird, and it’s fundamentally a VERY personal thing that I don’t particularly wish to discuss at work… on the other hand it feels like the elephant in the room.

    1. PinkCandyfloss*

      Your boss knows, I assume HR knows for arranging your leave, that sounds to me like it’s been navigated just fine. What are you really asking for specifically? I’m not sure what it is that you are worried about. Do you need ways to shut down intrusive questions? What are you asking?

    2. Alan*

      I don’t know your workplace but I also (a male) work in a male-dominated office and I’ve seen women just set firm boundaries: “I really don’t want to discuss this.” Yes it’s a little blunt but fundamentally it’s no one else’s business if you don’t want it to be. Set the boundaries where you want and anyone who’s not ridiculously immature will respect them.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Be matter of fact, tell people what you want/need from them. “Hey team, I will be out on maternity leave date through date. Suzanne will be taking the lead on the ABC project while I am out.”

      You can politely but firmly redirect people back to work tasks, “Hey Bob, thanks for the concern but I really need us to focus on this XYZ task right now do you have the numbers for last weeks sales?” If it’s invasive or just something you don’t want to discuss you can push back more then redirect, “Oh I’m not going to discuss that at work! Now what did you think of last meetings idea EFG”.

      I would also make sure to let a few of those work friends know you don’t want a baby shower etc if your work has a tradition of doing them.

    4. Ann Ominous*

      People will generally follow your lead. I work in a very male-dominated industry and pregnancies are just treated matter of factly, and any weirdness is shut down by good leadership and peers.

    5. Bagpuss*

      I’d think maybe treat it like any other absence, e.g. when planning things and scheduling meetings mention that you are expecting to be out, and who will be dealing with matters / urgent issues in your absence.

      Depending how far out things are usually scheduled maybe start doing that now, or noting in your calendar when you are likely to be out.

      If you haven’t already, talk to your boss about the practical arrangements – so that when things come up which are likely to need action when you are away you are able to say something along the lines of “I’m likely to be out for the beta testing phases, so you’ll need to direct any queries about that to [name] ” or “That’s likely to come up when I’m out on maternity leave,, so you’ll need to direct any queries about that to [name]. I’m expecting to return on around [date]” which does say why you are out but focuses on the work issue of what needs doing and who can do it.

      And then if someone mentions it you can cknowledge it nd mve on (I think many people will give a quick ‘congrats’ and is your response is a quick thank you and moving on to the next thing that you’d need to talk to them about then you send the ignla that you aren’t looking to discuss your pregnancy.

    6. Velociraptor Attack*

      Respectfully, you may have only told your boss but if you’re in your third trimester and in the office…. they’ve already figured it out.

        1. seps*

          I got weird with my third pregnancy and didn’t want to tell anyone so I just…didn’t. I like DisneyChannelThis’ suggestion where you just start talking about maternity leave like it’s any other leave. Just pretend as though everyone already knows and you announced it months ago. It’ll be fine!

          1. hamsterpants*

            I really love the strategy of acting like I announced it already. either people figured it out or they didn’t, but when I start talking about maternity leave then that focuses attention where it needs to be (work stuff) and away from where it doesn’t belong (the finer details of mammalian production).

            1. Indubitably Delicious*

              maybe say “parental leave” or “personal leave” to distance it even further? People will still likely put two and two together, but it makes it clear you’re being low-key about it and would appreciate the same in return.

      2. Don't Call Me Shirley*

        From experience, both thinking it obvious and surprising coworkers, and my husband telling me about learning of a coworker’s pregnancy at her send off lunch… Maybe not

    7. This Old House*

      Honestly, I’ve never had a male coworker be weird about my pregnancies. It’s always the women who want to know if you’re dilating!

      1. Here we go again*

        When I was pregnant I heard this new coworkers bloody and graphic labor horror stories, I did not need to know about what happens to her vagina during labor. A women I barley knew at the time. Men were fine, except towards the end I was wearing a tight fitting shirt and one of my younger male colleges saw my stomach move when my little wiggle worm moved. He was freaked out and said that’s something out of Alien. Still I’d rather hear that that graphic labor horror stories.

        1. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

          My little one moved a lot – like she was doing somersaults in there! I was once having a conversation with a female co-worker and it looked like she was staring at my feet.

          When I asked if something was wrong, she said that the hem of my maternity dress was bobbing up and down and it was distracting her from the conversation, LOL!

      2. ScruffyInternHerder*

        I have amusing stories from my pregnancy in a male-dominated industry. They knew. Several politely inquired if a “rumor” was accurate. The coworkers closest to me in age who had young children typically made certain I was included in any lunch orders if wished (they’d come ask me, as opposed to “if she wants it to she can just add her name to the list”) and a few of them chipped in a GC “for diapers and things you don’t know you need yet” that appeared on my desk my last day before leave with a nice card.

        But they weren’t at all awkward or weird about it.

    8. Ellis Bell*

      I think the male dominated aspect could actually really work for you. In my experience it’s places with an existing baby shower-pregnancy talk culture where it would be difficult to avoid discussion at work. I’d probably go with something super businesslike, like an email letting people know your maternity leave arrangements. If you feel the “elephant in the room” is still there then I’d just go ahead and mention it like you’d mention a house move: “I’ll be super glad when I’m ready for the baby. I’m crib shopping this weekend and all I want to do is flop in front of the TV”. If however you want to avoid discussion and discussion starts bubbling just say “Oh I’m so tired of baby talk. This place is my refuge from that! Tell me about X instead”.

      1. Mr. Shark*

        Right. I work in a male dominated industry and most people I know are thrilled for those women who are pregnant, but know that it’s not their business, and keep focused on work unless its mentioned. Once it’s mentioned, it’s simply wishing them the best and make sure and take all the time you need, etc. I really haven’t seen it otherwise (not that I would have a personal viewpoint on this, just what I’ve seen in work settings with groups).

    9. Quinalla*

      I think it would be less awkward to just send out an email to the team officially announcing you are pregnant and that you have already sat down and planned out taking 8 weeks of leave with your boss. Then just act like it is any other time you are out and talk about, “You’ll need to handle this while I’m on leave, I’ll pick it back up when I’m back.” I think that will be fine. If you don’t want to discuss details of pregnancy, you might even say something like “I prefer to focus on work at work, so please no pregnancy talk, I’m burned out on it!” in your email or just when people comment, ask questions, some kind of polite, “I’m pretty burned out on pregnancy talk, how about that project X?”

      All that said, you don’t have to inform anyone else if you don’t want to. I’ve seen that happen and it is a bit awkward, but everyone survives. I think it is actually kind of an interesting strategy, but for me is was less awkward to just say hey I’m pregnant, take some congrats and move on with work myself :)

      Not sure if you are planning to breastfeed or if you work in an office or WFH, but I know I had to navigate pumping a bit with my male-dominated workplace. Again, I just matter of fact explained that I was going to be closing and locking my door (I know, I had a private office, unheard of now) to pump several times a day and to email me or return when my door was open to chat (we always kept doors open except occasionally when on conference calls). I also said I’d be storing breastmilk in containers in a small cooler in the office fridge. We never had issues with food theft, but I still figured I would tell people. Don’t know if anyone was weirded out by it, but frankly didn’t care :)

      My boss had several children and his wife used a breast pump, so he knew the drill, so that helped, but if your place doesn’t already have a room to pump set up (they should by law, but doesn’t mean then actually do), now is the time to inform then they need to sort that out by the end of your leave. And if they are clueless, let them know no pumping in the bathroom does not suffice.

      Good luck with everything!

    10. Purple Cat*

      Personally, I would find attempting to “hide” or “ignore” a pregnancy to be pretty awkward. Do you hide when you’re going on vacation?
      Just let people know you expect to be out around X date, for 8 weeks. “Person” will be covering while you’re out.

    11. Mockingjay*

      You don’t have to discuss why you will be out, even if it’s obvious. All you need is a coverage plan. Present it matter-of-factly.

      “Hi Boss, here’s my coverage plan for when I’ll be out in November and December. [Details.]” Give Boss current status of each task, then discuss who can/will handle what. Does anyone need training? Are there written SOPs or instructions people can check? Identify tasks that can slide (be sure that you won’t be overwhelmed by pending stuff when you return).

      1. AnonyMouse*

        I think this would be super weird. Why hide a maternity leave?

        “Hi team, I am starting to organize coverage for when I’ll be out on maternity leave from date to date. Here are the details.”

        If people say congratulations, just politely thank them (just “Thanks!”) and circle back to a work topic. I do agree with PP that women and especially mothers often tend to want to discuss the details more than men. The most my male coworkers ever asked was how I was feeling, to which I’d say “Fine thanks!” + topic change to work related matters and they rarely steered it back. I think they just wanted to be polite.

    12. RagingADHD*

      Third trimester? If they were going to be weird about it, they would have started already. Obviously they are letting you take the lead, so do what you want and say as much or as little as you like.
      Sounds rather refreshing, actually.

    13. Marvel*

      Possibly unhelpful answer: however makes you the most comfortable. There are so many weird cultural things about disclosing pregnancy, most of which contradict each other (you “should” tell people, yet women “shouldn’t” talk about their bodies, especially around men… etc.). Do what is easiest for you.

      1. Analyst Editor*

        With all due respect, I haven’t ever seen or heard of anyone interpreting “disclosing a pregnancy” as “talking about your body” unless you get graphic and lurid about your sore nipples or no bleeding or your doctor’s visits. Body talk seems a pretty bright line in the office for everyone?

    14. Pocket Mouse*

      One big thing: call it “parental leave” or “family leave” instead of maternity leave, which is a pretty gendered term. Your going out on leave is due (ha!) to becoming a parent to a new child, not because you’re a woman — this normalizes parental leave for your male colleagues, as well as remaining inclusive of birthing parents who are not women.

      I had a colleague who talked about going on leave in a team setting for the first time when she was (I’d guess) around 30 weeks. It was obvious by that point, and it was also totally fine that she didn’t talk about it more than was necessary before then.

      1. WhichLeaveIsIt*

        except most leave policies are gendered, by which I mean maternity leave is distinctly different from paternity leave in terms of the mechanics of the leave. maybe in the future that won’t be the case, but at most workplaces it is today. Thus, knowing it’s maternity leave is pertinent for the expectations coworkers will have regarding timing, etc

        1. Pocket Mouse*

          “8 weeks off for the birth” sounds like it’ll be covered by FMLA (if in the US and applicable to the employer and OP). So even if there’s a ‘maternity’ leave policy, this particular leave is most likely covered under a family leave policy as well. Parents of any gender are able to take FMLA for a new child, even if they aren’t the one giving birth.

          And yeah, parental leave policies 1000% should not be gendered.

    15. marvin*

      I’ve had pretty good success from just setting a tone of not wanting to get into personal details at work. This wasn’t related to pregnancy but transition, and there are differences but it’s similarly really personal but also kind of inevitably public. Whenever I had to address it, I just stuck to the work related facts and used a pretty brisk tone and fortunately everyone took their cue from that and didn’t pry. I was prepared to tell people that I didn’t want to get into medical/personal details at work, but I never had to do it.

  8. Jessica Ganschen*

    I can now happily report that my contract has officially been extended for another six months, and that it’s come with a raise! Not a very big one, but hey, every dollar helps.

  9. Anonymous Bread*

    How do you deal with imposter syndrome? My boss says I’m doing great, but my anxiety is saying otherwise.

    1. Alan*

      CBT? If you can find a practitioner. For me, I find the anxiety very motivating. I’m at a point now where I can make it work for me. But if it’s debilitating, CBT (which I’ve also done).

    2. danmei kid*

      Counseling, by a professional who specializes in anxiety of this type. CBT, DBT, biofeedback, there are many ways to address this type of negative self-talk, intrusive thoughts, and more. For this: let a pro help you navigate. Tell the counselor up front exactly what you want to work on and let them take you from there.

    3. Anon for this one*

      This is aimed for women, but either way, I would highly recommend listening to the podcast with Rushida Tulshyan and Brene Brown (on Brene Brown’s podcast) – I think from October 2021 on Imposter Syndrome. The article on Harvard Business Review “Stop Telling Women they have Imposter Syndrome” is excellent and the authors are on the podcast. There are some helpful reframing exercises and mindset shifts.

      Speaking from experience, it is not easy to shift your mindset. For me, it has taken repeated mantras and mental reminders whenever I sense myself moving into that headspace.

      1. Quinalla*

        Yes, this podcast really put into words what I feel about imposter syndrome and “lack of confidence” in women. Yes, it exists for all genders in fact, but what some women mistake for imposter syndrome is actually just you’ve have had your statements/opinions questioned/discounted/ignored for your entire life, OF COURSE you are going to have less confidence, how could you not? Same for POC and even worse for women POC. Also women are socialized to not be too confident, too showy, too aggressive (all the eye rolls for this beauty) etc. so again, that plays in to our perceived lack of confidence as well.

    4. Hamster Manager*

      Look up Alison’s advice on how to advocate for a raise (i.e. write a list of all the ways you’re excelling in the role) and do the exercise just for yourself. Actually write it out. I bet you do a LOT more than you give yourself credit for! Try to reframe your thinking to acknowledge your wins on a frequent basis, like “what was a win for me yesterday?”

      Impostor syndrome discounts wins/strengths and focuses on real or perceived deficits. You have to make yourself look at things differently.

      1. Alan*

        I used to do this. Every year I kept a running list of what I had worked on and what I had achieved that I could bring to my salary review. Wow! I rarely remembered at the end of the year all the stuff I had done until I looked at the list. It was always an enormous encouragement. I also (like Peppermint Tea below) save old e-mails and such complimenting my performance. Those are also tremendously encouraging.

        1. ferrina*

          This is a great exercise for any year end reviews.

          For combatting feelings of worthlessness, I sometimes do a modified version of this where I list everything I did in a day. I realized that when I’m focused on what I didn’t do (or didn’t do well enough), I’m ignoring all the stuff I did do. I got a journal where I’ll literally list all the things I did do in a day- everything from work accomplishments to doing dishes. It helps me focus on what I have done and taking the time to acknowledge my own accomplishments, and helps me reset what I expect of myself (I’ve also found that sometimes my worst days are when I get the most done. On those days the more I do the more I feel like I should have done)

        2. Zap R.*

          This is great advice. I keep a spreadsheet of everything I accomplish in a workday. Everything from typing a report to unloading the dishwasher goes on the sheet. In addition to being a tangible reminder of all the stuff you’re good at, it’s hugely helpful in performance reviews and when updating your resume.

    5. PeppermintTea*

      I keep a file of praise I’ve received, from both my boss and others, and look at it every now and then as some “hard evidence” that I’m not a total failure. It’s especially helpful to have things in there from other people. I also try to look at how my boss treats me and other people generally. Is he truthful? Is he reasonable? If he’s shown himself to be trustworthy with other things, I can trust that he’s telling me the truth about my performance.

    6. WantonSeedStitch*

      Does your boss give you specific feedback? Or just say that you’re doing great? I find specific feedback (“that presentation was really clear and informative,” or “you handled that conversation with compassion but also made sure to hold the employee accountable for their behavior–well done!”) to be more helpful to me in making me feel like I’m REALLY doing a good job. If your boss doesn’t give you that kind of feedback, maybe asking for examples of things you’re doing well would be helpful. Frame it as “I want to make sure I keep doing this stuff if it’s going well!”

    7. Foley*

      I was listening to a podcast while walking to a museum this summer and it had the best line, ‘imposters don’t worry about imposter syndrome.’

      For some reason that reframed my thinking completely. It made me realize (what I already knew internally) that I have the chops for what I’m doing. But ALSO think about all the people posturing and blustering. They’re doing that because they know they *don’t* have what it takes. I’ve never had to pretend because I already know. Think about it that way.

  10. Partner's job*

    Does anyone have experience with a job that puts requirements or limitations on your spouse or partner?

    I’ve heard that finance limits what your household can invest in, and I’ve heard that jobs with clearances can have restrictions as well. My husband is in the process of accepting a job with juvenile offenders, and he was told that both he and I would be expected to hibernate or deactivate any social media accounts.

    I’m not a user of FB, Insta, etc., but I asked my husband to get clarification on whether this directive includes LinkedIn. I can’t be shut out from the ability to look for a job myself, that’s completely unreasonable.

    1. An Australian In London*

      The closest I’ve personally been to this have been employers or clients who took an interest in what was publicly viewable in my social media.

      The obvious answer was to switch all personal social media to friends-only, which is arguably good practice for anyone.

      I have not switched LinkedIn to connections-only… but that is 100% SFW anyway.

      Your husband’s employer has standing to ask that *his* social media get locked down… but to deactivate it? That seems an overreach. They certainly don’t have standing to require anything of *you*.

      I guess that’s little comfort if you’re in an at-will jurisdiction and they fire him for it. I’m keen to see what other’s say to this.

  11. Dil*

    Anyone got any scripts or tips to redirect comments about Martha’s Vineyard to make someone above me stop freaking laughing about it?

    Also any tips for coping with horrible hateful people being around me all the time. :,) Faith in humanity is dwindling.

    1. Up and Away*

      This is awful. I too am surrounded by red-leaning folks, but luckily no one has said anything about it. Honestly, if they did, I might give them a pointed cold look, and pointed silence, but other than that I have found that I don’t get anywhere when I try to engage intelligently with them about this stuff. Either you get it or you don’t; and they’re not interested in seeing it from the other perspective.

    2. Dr. Laboratoria*

      I would look them dead in the eye and ask why they were laughing at people who are risking their very lives to reach the American dream. Why do they think it’s funny that people were essentially trafficked to another state.

      Then I would make a disgusted sound and leave.

      And I would do it with lots of people around.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Want to throw the Christian bible at them?

      “The foreigner who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the foreigner as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
      Leviticus 19:34 ”

      “I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
      Matthew 25:35 ”

      “Let mutual love continue. Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it.
      Hebrews 13:1-3”

    4. cardigarden*

      I wish I had advice. The “what a strange response” reaction would probably just invite further interaction. Honestly, that person is probably looking to provoke a reaction, so ignoring it is likely your best bet… which is tough since you don’t want others to think your silence = approval, and it’s tough on your own sanity.

      1. Dil*

        I think this is what I’m going to go for. I just said nothing and pretended I didn’t hear her. I wish we didn’t have a big TV blasting Fox in the waiting room. Sigh.

        Thanks for the help.

      2. cardigarden*

        Does this still work? The last couple of people I had to use that on know what it’s about and have given me very condescending “oh, well if you don’t already get it you’re not going to.”

      3. SoloKid*

        Agreed this never works out with me. I just state my own side and say “I’m glad they were sent to a community that cares about their well being.”

    6. RagingADHD*

      I think you may need to accept that you can’t stop people from laughing at whatever they want to laugh at – particularly people above you.

      You can demonstrate that you aren’t a likeminded audience by saying sincere things like, “I thought it was really nice how the MV community turned out and how well they took care of the folks on the flight. I wish every community were so compassionate.”

      1. GingerNP*

        I got to a point during the height of the pandemic that I would see “laugh” reactions to FB posts about Covid or Covid vaccines and would immediately tense up like I was going to get hit. I have lost so much faith in so much of humanity and have had to make it a point to both look for good and be good to others. I agree, a sincere response may not stop them from laughing more, but at least your own conscience and reputation are intact, and they won’t mistake you for someone who agrees with them.

        1. RagingADHD*

          I reacted like that until I saw some older folks I know who were pro-vaccines using them-not to mock, but because they thought it meant “happy.”

  12. Hypothetical Stephen*

    My favorite candidate for a role politely but firmly removed themselves from consideration after I sent them two emails and left them two voicemails during a single workday. Should I blacklist them from further positions within the company?

    3. Just a Fed*

      What was the circumstance that made you leave that many messages during a single day? It sounds like overkill, and might make me hesitant to continue with a company. Did the candidate actually indicate the contact attempts were what made them reconsider moving forward?

      Regardless, I say no, don’t blacklist them. Why is that your impulse if they were talented?

    4. LaDiDa*

      That is a lot of contact in one day, it doesn’t seem like you gave them enough time to respond. They might have withdrawn because of that. I never blacklist anyone unless they have done something awful.

      1. JelloStapler*

        I may have removed myself from that if I felt like this is a sign of impatience and excessive communication if I were to take the job.

        Blacklisting sounds even worse.

    5. PinkCandyfloss*

      Four communications in one day?? Why on earth……? I would have removed myself as well. This is an indication to me that you and/or the company don’t have good communication practices or boundaries. Or that everything is urgent all the time. Or that you’re desperate. Honestly there are two dozen ways to speculate about why you would leave them FOUR messages in one day and NONE of them are flattering for you or your organization. This would not be a good fit for me either. Don’t blacklist them – they are a person who knows what their own boundaries are! Rare in an employee! (Unless your business depends on employees accepting this type of behavior from managers……? in which case … definitely a bad fit for me & most other workers too)

      Maybe some self-reflection on why this degree of contact was deemed appropriate to begin with and how you might approach it differently going forward.

      1. Picard*

        This. FOUR reach outs in ONE day? I mean seriously though, WTH? And now you’re asking about BLACKLISTING them?? You need to take a serious step back and re-evaluate YOUR actions and thought process here. wow.

        (Frankly I would say candidate dodged a bullet)

        1. londonedit*

          Yeah, I don’t see what the candidate has done wrong here. For whatever reason – maybe to do with or maybe exacerbated by the two emails and two voicemails – the candidate withdrew politely and firmly from the process. That’s it. They weren’t abusive, they weren’t unreasonable, they just took themselves out of the running. They might have been your favourite candidate but that doesn’t mean they had any obligation to continue speaking to you.

          I have to say that if a potential employer had left me two emails and two voicemails in one day, I’d be perturbed and would worry that if they’re doing that during the interview process, what are they going to be like to work for? Badgering people for a response when it’s clear they’re busy? I’d definitely look at the way you’re communicating with candidates because this sort of thing could well put people off.

    6. NotBatman*

      Did they indicate in their response that they withdrew *because* they were contacted so many times? That’s still not concerning enough to blacklist, but maybe it’s feedback for you about how to recruit future candidates.

    8. nonprofiteer*

      No, but also don’t beat yourself up about this. An enthusiastic candidate wouldn’t mind that level of contact, and maybe would have taken your first (or second) call. They just weren’t that into the position.

      1. Velociraptor Attack*

        I don’t think that’s universally true.

        I’ve been an enthusiastic candidate for plenty of positions and unless there’s something missing from this story (like the candidate called back at one point so there was some phone tag going on), 2 voicemails and 2 emails over the course of an 8-hour workday would be a huge red flag for me.

      2. Not a Real Giraffe*

        ?? Hard disagree on this. I have had plenty of jobs that I was over-the-moon enthusiastic about, but would have been really annoyed by four touchpoints in a single day. I have other obligations on my time (a current job, a personal life, a family, whatever) and a 24-hour response time is perfectly reasonable, even for something I’m really excited about.

        1. The Real Fran Fine*

          All of this. OP could have called once, left a voicemail (this still exists, folks!), and then waited 24 hours for a response before following up. People have jobs, they have things they have to do during the day. Not jumping at an employer’s every beck and call right off the bat does not say anything about the level of interest in the role – it just says you’re busy and will get back to them when you can.

      3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yes, disagree. What is to be gained? Unless you’re in a serious time crunch – like the employee has to be in place before the start of the fiscal year on Oct 1 – this is unnecessary. And if it is an issue of Oct 1, then that should have been explained to the prospective hire at the beginning.

      4. just a thought*

        If they are currently employed, they probably *couldn’t* take the calls right away.

        I would disagree. Taking a new job is a big decision and if the recruiter were pressuring me and contacting me 4 times in one day (!!!), I wouldn’t be thrilled even if the position were great and one I was interested in.

        1. londonedit*

          I agree. They might not be in a position to respond straight away, and I’d be worried about a potential employer who tried to contact me four times in the same working day. I prefer these things to be done by email anyway because then I can get to them in my own time and – if I’m in the office – I don’t have to worry about scurrying around trying to find somewhere to take a private phone call. But in any case one voicemail, with one follow-up email, is absolutely all that’s needed. Much more than that and I’d start to feel pressured and hounded, and I’d worry that I’d be constantly hounded if I took the job, too.

      5. JelloStapler*

        Maybe they were at a CURRENT job or for some other reason could not take the call. Then kept getting calls and emails. That would turn me off.

      6. Future Former Librarian*

        I am currently very enthusiastic about a potential job I’ve applied for. I’m also currently working in a customer service job where I don’t have access to my personal phone or email while I’m on the customer floor. I’m not allowed to have my phone with me, and my work computer blocks all email providers apart from our work email system. If a hiring manager were to call or email me while I’m on shift, I have no way of even knowing they’ve called, let alone answering or calling back. It’s not a lack of enthusiasm, it’s literally one of the reasons I’m trying to leave my current job.

    9. WantonSeedStitch*

      Ooof, definitely not. If I were them I would feel pestered, and it doesn’t sound like they did anything unprofessional. Not being available over the course of a single day isn’t unprofessional.

    10. Irish+Teacher.*

      It sounds like they did everything right – they must have been good if they were your preferred candidate, they were clear about pulling out and they were polite – so I don’t see why you’d blacklist them? From what you’ve described, recommending them would seem more appropriate. Unless you mean they made it clear they don’t want to work with your company at all and you want to give people the heads-up not to bother headhunting them?

      But overall, they sound exactly like the kind of person your company would want – firm, polite, apparently a good fit. They sound like the last person you’d want to blacklist.

    11. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Because they turned you down? This is like badmouthing a girl all over town because she didn’t want to go on a second date.

      Why so much contact? Was the removal explicitly because of the excessive contact? Regardless, “politely” means that no, you should absolutely not blacklist this person, just know that they don’t want this position.

      1. Hypothetical Stephen*

        She did explicitly say that the contact attempts was her reason for withdrawing. I operate out of a slightly different timezone and only contacted her during the time my business hours overlapped with hers. When the second call went right to voicemail, I sent the second email.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          You way overstepped. She is likely busy during her business hours, so… leave ONE message and wait for her to return it. If you need to have a conversation, say so in your voice mail. ONE follow up email the next day, to confirm she got your message, is ok.

          If she had two assessments to complete, you need to give her time unless there’s a hard deadline. Even with a deadline, ONE message. After all, she gets to decide whether to complete those assessments or not, she doesn’t work for you. She is an adult and likely aware that not doing these assessments constitutes a withdrawal from the process.

          In your comment below, you point out that call was intentionally rejected. She was busy! That’s what voice mails are for. ONE voice mail.

    12. Ginger Pet Lady*

      Are you serious? You blasted them all day, and they were polite and firm in response to that and you want to blacklist them?
      Dude.
      Candidates have lives. Often other jobs.
      YOU screwed up here. If anyone deserves to be blacklisted, it’s you.

    13. CatCat*

      You shouldn’t because that’s absurd and petty, but if you do, it’s probably going to be for their benefit anyway considering your approach and thought process here. Yikes.

    14. Generic Name*

      What? I mean, go ahead and blacklist whoever you want (assuming you’re in the US and it’s not for an illegal reason). My main reaction is why did you reach out to a candidate do many times in one day? Were you expecting an instant response and repeatedly followed up when you didn’t get what you wanted? Do you expect instant responses from people at your company? It’s probably irrelevant whether or not you black list them, frankly.

    15. random person*

      It does sound like an excessive number of contacts, but I’m also wondering about the tone of those contacts. Especially the ones that came later.

      I work in an industry where I can’t have my cell phone with me during work. And I may or may not be able to access my personal email, depending on (1) whether the network is up, and (2) the vagaries of the office that decides which internet sites we’re allowed to access. So if I got out of work only to find emails and voicemails that seemed a bit… miffed… that I hadn’t been responsive, yeah I’d probably give that company a pass.

    16. Hypothetical Stephen*

      Here’s a rough timeline:

      Thursday: Phone interview. Evening in her timezone, close to the end of workday in my timezone. I sent her two assessments to complete.
      Monday morning: Assessments not completed. I send her an email asking reminding her of them. I follow up with a phone call that goes to voicemail.
      Monday afternoon/early evening her time: I call again and go to voicemail after only one ring, which means the call was intentionally rejected. I leave a voicemail and immediately send an email reiterating the contents of the voicemail.
      Tuesday morning: She withdraws, explicitly citing Monday’s attempts at contacting her as the reason why.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Did you give her a deadline when you sent her the assignments on Thursday? If so, what was the deadline?

        In any case, two emails and two phone calls in a single day is too much contact. And a polite withdrawal is not a good enough reason to blacklist a candidate.

      2. Spicy Tuna*

        Was there a deadline on the assessments, and did she know what they were by the end of the Thursday phone interview? A single weekend doesn’t seem like enough time to complete two assessments. People have families and other obligations to take care of during that time. Unless she confirmed that that was feasible for her, your expectations were unreasonable and it makes sense that she withdrew.

      3. SoloKid*

        I would have taken the uncompleted assessments as the first clue this candidate was not that enthusiastic about the role. (Was a weekend assignment known before the phone interview?)

        One follow up email on Monday evening would have been fine but you went way overboard with contact. Blacklist if you want but I think this candidate already blacklisted your company herself.

      4. Librarian of SHIELD*

        Wait. *Two* assignments? How many hours do you estimate it would take to complete those assignments? If a company I didn’t even work for gave me two unpaid assignments to complete over the course of a single weekend (thereby depriving me of the rest and personal errand time that weekends are supposed to be for), and then pestered me throughout the next business day about why the assignments hadn’t been submitted yet, I’d have withdrawn from the process too.

        1. danmei kid*

          I’d have withdrawn the minute I was asked to give a company my unpaid labor doing some random ‘assignments’ as a condition of getting a job.

          1. jane*

            As a hiring manager, there’s a lot of value in a brief assignment to assess critical on-the-job skills that you simply can’t get from interviewing and reference checks. Again – a single, brief assignment. Mine don’t benefit our company at all, they are based on a fake scenario. As a job candidate, I’ve also completed a short assignment.

            It depends on your field, the job you’re applying for, how the company approaches it (how much of your time will it take? is it clearly just an exercise scenario? how much time do they give you? do they call you 4 times in a row and then blacklist you?).

            And I still respect if you’re not willing to take time out of your free time to do an assignment! But it’s not an inappropriate request in general.

            1. The Real Fran Fine*

              This. Assessments are very common in my field, but like you said – they’re usually short and really shouldn’t take hours or days to complete.

          2. Wheels on Fire*

            Skills assessments as part of the application process are common in some fields. As long as they don’t take more than a couple hours, it’s not unreasonable.

      6. Pink Candyfloss*

        First you ask a candidate to complete assessments (really, when will this practice die out? It’s so unnecessary in *most* roles) which is asking them for unpaid labor. Then, you give her one business day (we’re not counting weekends because you don’t know what plans people have already made long in advance that means they can’t spend that time doing unpaid labor for you) and after that you send FOUR follow-ups in the same day which is excessive, shows impatience, and poor judgment on your part.

        It already was not a mystery to anyone answering your comment, why she withdrew. But your details have now made it extra crystal clear why.

      7. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

        What was the waiting time between when she applied for the job, and the phone interview? If she applied Tuesday and you talked to her on Thursday, that’s one thing. If she applied weeks or months ago, and heard nothing beyond an automated “we got your application, we’ll get in touch if we want to proceed” until someone set up that phone interview, she might not be prepared to hurry up and complete assessments that might sit on your desk until Thanksgiving.

        You may know that if you’d received the assessments Monday morning, you would have evaluated them by Tuesday afternoon, but did she know that? So far, she has invested the time to send a resume and cover letter, and probably prepare for the phone interview. The phone interview is time you both spent. How much more time would those assessments have taken, and did she have enough information, yet, to know that it would be worth spending that time?

      8. Reba*

        Yeah, you overdid it.

        I highly doubt the candidate needing “reminding” and even if this were the case, the first communication would have served as the reminder! Since you kept reaching out it seems like there was something else you were looking for, and hounding her for it.

        1. Reba*

          Plus your impulse to somehow punish the candidate, and your sensitivity to your call being screened/sent to voicemail, also point to that “something else” being an unreasonable expectation of like, deference to you or willingness to drop everything for your company.

      9. urguncle*

        Thursday to Monday is not a lot of time to complete assignments for an interview. I’ve never had less than 5 business days to complete an assignment.
        If you wanted it turned in by Monday morning, that’s a ridiculous turnaround and disrespectful of her weekend. In no circumstances do I think that the candidate is in the wrong here.

      10. London Calling*

        You sent an assignment on Thursday evening to be completed by Monday morning? so you expected candidate to cancel any plans for the weekend and work for free. Did you make this timeline clear to the candidate during the interview? because it sounds like she decided being asked to give up her weekend and THEN being contacted four times, with one email immediately following a voicemail without even waiting for her to reply, was not something she was at all happy about. And I can’t say I blame her. Good on her for having firm boundaries.

        Red flags galore.

      11. Ginger Pet Lady*

        Are you for real? You asked for TWO unpaid assignments, and then nagged her FOUR TIMES in one business day, and you don’t see what went wrong here?
        You really have no clue what you’re doing in this hiring process, do you? You just lost your best candidate because you acted like you are her boss, when you are NOT.
        Don’t blacklist her. Remove yourself from the hiring process, or go get some remedial training on how to treat job candidates like the human beings they are. With respect for their time and the skills they would bring to the job if you didn’t push them away.
        You’re lucky they were polite as they firmly refused to work with you.

      13. The Real Fran Fine*

        She withdraws, explicitly citing Monday’s attempts at contacting her as the reason why.

        Yeah because she got your first email reminding her about the assessments on Monday. There was no need to send another email and call twice about it. If she was going to return the assessments, she would have (or asked you for more time). At this point, it felt like badgering and for all you know, she was going to respond, but didn’t get the chance to before you began blowing her up.

        Alison always tells job seekers here that after we submit an application or have an interview we need to then put it out of our heads and continue on with our search – the company knows we’re interested and if the interest is mutual, they will respond when they can. I would say something similar to you as well. The candidate knew you were interested. If it was mutual, she would have gotten back to you or asked for an extension. Blowing somebody up is not going to make them move any faster and, in fact, it may even turn them all the way off, as you have just now experienced.

      14. learnedthehardway*

        The candidate did NOT do anything wrong here, and there is no reason to blacklist them.

        You blacklist someone who lied about their work experience / has terrible references / faked their education or employment / is a known abusive person in your industry.

        You DON’T blacklist someone who VERY REASONABLY AND POLITELY decided not to pursue your role because you had unreasonable expectations and were basically harassing them.

        Under the circumstances ONE voicemail or email would have been appropriate. You might have gotten away with a voicemail AND an email – if the information you were conveying was urgent (eg. they missed a deadline or an interview time had changed).

    17. AdAbs*

      This is a lot of calls and emails for one singular workday. I can see an email and a follow-up phone call, but they are still trying to, presumably, work.

    18. RagingADHD*

      I read your follow up comments. Your expectations and behavior are entirely unreasonable.

      If your goal is to downgrade your hiring pool and give your company a bad reputation among highly-qualified candidates, then yes. You should certainly blacklist this candidate, and continue doing what you’re doing. You will quickly achieve the goal of only hiring people who don’t have any better options.

      If instead you want to hire top candidates like this person, you should take the feedback, change your attitude and your process, and *hope* they apply again for something else.

    21. SereneScientist*

      Leaving aside what other responders have said about your choices during the interview process, I think you should step back and think about the connection between “my favorite candidate said no” and “Should I blacklist them.” Something here feels like way too much personal investment for something that is work-only.

      1. AcademiaNut*

        If the OP blacklists, they should only do so if they inform the candidate of what they are doing and why. Then the candidate can post an entirely factual account on LinkedIn to warn off other candidates.

        A deadline of three days later for multiple assessment assignments is unrealistic. The person has a life, and isn’t going to put it on hold to dance on command for a potential employer. Assessments are useful, but should be compact enough to fit in the interview itself. Four contacts in a single business day at this stage is too much, in either direction. Blacklisting someone over the described situation is punitive and petty, and an indication that being blacklisted is actually a blessing.

    23. MurpMaureep*

      Were the communications escalations or on four different topics? Meaning did you keep contacting them because you hadn’t heard back or because you were sharing different pieces of info (or asking different questions)?

      The first would definitely be problematic, the second less so, but might have still appeared disorganized to the candidate.

      Either way don’t blacklist them! Learn from this and examine your communications and the underlying message they send.

    24. *daha**

      To answer the question you actually asked: No, do not blacklist them within the company. This is simply a bad fit between your personal style and theirs. It could be that there are some managers within your company who can tolerate a highly qualified candidate who does not capitulate fully and immediately to dominance.

  13. Workplace Email Smackdown Winner*

    I responded to a problematic person in my division who thinks she’s the smartest person in the room in a supremely satisfying way earlier this week, because she wrote me a nastygram about being moved out of a meeting space (online collaboration with a waiting room format, where we’d pre-warned everyone that they’d only be allowed in for the parts of the meeting they’re directly involved in). I essentially ignored her tone entirely and wrote back sticking to our policy, which was backed up by my grandboss when she later called them looking for backup.

    What did you succeed at this week that made you go “f*$k yeah”?

    2. seepy witt*

      Congratulations on this well deserved win!!!

      My f*$k yeah moment was sitting my new boss down and telling them what I need in order to succeed (and thus, the project to succeed). Not only did it not go horribly wrong (which I expected, thanks to trauma from my last boss)…they’re actually doing the things and it’s been fruitful already.

      1. Workplace Email Smackdown Winner*

        That’s good news – love when someone actually gets traction asking for changes that they need to do their job well!

    3. Susan Calvin*

      Setup: we, IT vendor, currently working on a pilot project with a highly prestigious customer. Last step required is integration with vendor B’s product they’re already using.

      Without going into too much detail, our go-live was indefinitely delayed, and yet through the power of transparency and proactive communication, Customer isn’t pissed at us, but vendor B, who comes across as uncooperative and whom they now suspect of being in a snit over not winning this deal too.

    4. WellRed*

      Not exactly a success but: a new manager wanted the whole team all go over a spreadsheet of duties that needed to be temporarily covered. I politely said on slack “not sure I’ll be much help” ( and that would apply to several others). This is because it’s waaay out of my job description. She said “I think it’s perfect since we’ll all be together.” The mtg came, she displayed the spreadsheet and cue several minutes of silence and at least one person saying, “I wish I could help” before mgr wrapped it up and mentioned people could talk individually about the tasks offline. Which was how it should have been handled in the first place.

      1. Joielle*

        I think not agreeing to do stuff out of a sense of awkwardness/guilt is a success (and something I have a hard time with). Congrats!

      2. Workplace Email Smackdown Winner*

        Sometimes it is SO necessary to not fill the silence and let the awkwardness of a situation speak for itself. Nice going!

      3. ForeignLawyer*

        We had a similar meeting recently that was just an hour of “Even if I had spare capacity, I literally don’t know how to do X because I was hired for completely different thing A” (think teapot production specialist vs. quality assurance vs. software design). It was so awkward.

    5. Mid*

      I finally got my boss to agree that she needs to use her capital to push very hard for a good cybersecurity audit because our company really, really needs a good cybersecurity audit. Still not sure it will be approve by The Powers That Be, but at least there’s a stronger chance.

      1. Workplace Email Smackdown Winner*

        Woo! Advocating for things that are needed at work and having others agree can be satisfying (and is always necessary!)

    6. Joielle*

      Congrats! LOVE a satisfying resolution to a nastygram situation.

      This week I officially got an office with a door! I’m in sort of a weird situation with a promotion that’s technically temporary but fairly certain to become permanent, and I was still in my cubicle but it was becoming a real pain to book conference rooms for all the meetings I’m now having. Cube space is at a premium with some new staff starting soon, so I asked if I could move into an empty office and I got the ok! There are some office politics at play and I’m trying not to rock the boat while in this temporary situation, but I am SO EXCITED to be able to just work from one place all day and be able to shut the door for calls and not have to shuffle stuff around. F yeah!

    7. Neosmom*

      I applied for an EA position last night via LinkedIn and got a message response today. They want me to submit a 2-5 minute video answering 12 interview questions! Just not possible.

      I responded to the text with an email message letting them know that 2 – 5 minutes was not possible for that question list. Then I ran through the questions and my replies one by one (leaving two blank that I thought would be better as part of a conversation) and let them know if they were interested in chatting further I would be happy to speak with them.

      Yeah! Ridiculous video request.

    8. Ama*

      This is my annual hell week — where I am responsible for the initial processing of every grant application my funding org employer receives. I am literally the only person at my employer who knows how to do this (although this year I have finally begun training my direct report but we’re still at the demonstration phase not the “try it yourself” phase) and I need to get things out the door for the next phase of the review by the end of the week.

      This year’s hell week came with added extra anxiety because last year my routine processing checks brought an absolute s**tstorm down on my head when a VIP misunderstood a routine email I sent and basically spent two weeks sending me and our leadership angry emails until we could finally calm him down (he’s one of those people who can’t EVER admit he’s wrong, so multiple attempts to politely say “I think you are misreading the intent here” did not work at all). I actually was having panic attacks last weekend and I am absolutely sure this guy’s BS was the reason why.

      This week, not only did I get the first phase of processing done yesterday (a whole day early), but the jerk who caused all the fuss officially withdrew from participating in this year’s review process which means I don’t have to deal with him at all.

    9. AsPerElaine*

      I managed to butt into a rapid back-and-forth between senior people to say, “Actually, can we go back to editing the list of takeaways, because I had one to add,” and then, in a bit of a pause later, follow up with, “As a process note, it is much easier for me to contribute takeaways if we actually ask, ‘Were there any other takeaways?’ and leave time for people to answer.” (Rather than listing the takeaways the loud senior people knew about, and then moving on to the next topic.)

    10. The Real Fran Fine*

      I delivered potentially awkward feedback to a direct report who has struggled with a perception problem internally (people, including my boss, think she doesn’t have the temperament to lead and shuts down when she doesn’t get her way). Not only did she not take offense to my observation, but she thanked me for it and asked me to help coach her on this issue because she said she admires how I handle some of our more…problematic coworkers and wants to learn how to do the same, but in a way that feels comfortable to her.

      We now have time blocked on the calendar moving forward to role play different scenarios so she can practice how to assert herself without completely shutting down others.

    11. the cat's ass*

      I successfully transferred a very pushy (6 emails in one day) sales person to the proper person in my org. My dude, it’s a great product, but STOP emailing so much! And here’s the right person for you to contact-don’t email them so much, either.

      1. They begged*

        Six months ago my boss and grand boss didn’t consider me for My bosses job when he announced his retirement(my dream job-I’d been there 14 years), and instead hired a guy with no experience. I quit and it’s been bad. This week they called, admitted their mistake, apologized profusely and made me an incredible offer to take over. I’m going back and I’m thrilled.

  14. Need suggestions!*

    I’m looking for ideas for team-building activities our management team can do with our outside sales people that don’t involve golf. Golf outings have been their go-to, but we have some salespeople (they both happen to be women) that do not golf, and we need to come up with some more inclusive activities.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Escape Room
      Cooking Class
      Trivia
      Volunteer together
      Food truck festivals
      Paintball
      Bowling
      Happy Hour
      Attend a sports game
      5k Relay
      Picnic
      Hike

    2. danmei kid*

      Nothing athletic or physically challenging, please. No bowling, no running, not even group yoga …. You may butt up against someone’s private chronic health issue and not be aware of it. Stick to things that are fun but low impact and don’t require physicality. Always be sensitive that people who need accommodations for things like old injuries, arthritis, balance issues, and more – may not feel brave enough to ask for them or bring it up when this type of “team building” is proposed.

      We did a cooking class that was fun but we did make sure to clear any allergies with the participants first.

      If the point is really “team building” and not just “let’s do something fun” then keep that in mind. Attending an event can be fun but the team really isn’t interacting, so how is this team building? Problem solving things like escape rooms can be fun but make sure no one is claustrophobic first! We had a team member nearly have a panic attack when we did that once. As soon as he learned that there’s an exit door that’s not locked and he really could leave any time, it was better.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Depending on the atmosphere, you could have a hangout at a bowling alley where you’re not required to bowl – for instance there’s a chain called Pinstripes around here that has bowling and bocce but also bar/restaurant/event space, so you can hang out while other people are bowling and just nosh on food or chat.

        1. Joielle*

          We did an indoor mini golf thing once, and one person had a broken ankle and was on crutches, and I am awful at golf. It was still fun because the two of us didn’t have to golf but could just sit on the side and have a drink and watch/heckle the golfers (there was a sort of elevated bar rail overlooking the golf area for just this purpose). Ended up being a great team building event!

    3. Pyanfar*

      Some that I’ve been on that were a blast…a graffiti art class including individual pieces and a group piece that then was displayed in the office…ropes course…bowling (regular and duck pin)…a charity that came and had the team assemble bikes and wagons that were then donated to the Boys & Girls club…Let’sRoam (phone app) scavenger hunts…escape rooms…mini golf

    4. NotBatman*

      Could it be a minor task (one forgiving of errors) that’s company work not normally done by that team? We did team-building that involved having HR do spot inspections of the company’s product (the ones headed for the employee store, not the distributors) and in the process learned a lot more about the business itself. Another team-building activity involved volunteering to sell the product in a booth at fun events, with the understanding that 10 – 15 employees would rotate between working the booth and enjoying the fair itself.

    5. Fluffy Initiative*

      Pub trivia (there are people that will do this as a private event)
      Wine/beer/cheese/other local specialty food tastings
      Group cooking class
      Group art/craft class or project
      Museum group tour
      Bowling
      Local sporting event (hockey, baseball, football…)
      Axe-throwing, if you’ve got a place near you that does that
      River/lake cruise, if you’ve got a body of water near you

    7. BalanceofThemis*

      Speaking as someone who is very claustrophobic, please think twice about the escape room. They aren’t fun for everyone.

    8. lost academic*

      Come up with a good list and send it out like a survey – letting people rank what they like the most and also indicate a veto for options that they couldn’t do. Make sure the responses are anonymous and tell them it will be. Then you’ll know what to pick.

      1. Mid*

        Not the same, but I take a similar approach to a book club. Everyone can nominate books they are interested in, I vet the books for length and content (and if they’re stand alone or part of a series), and then everyone gets to vote on the next book we read as a group. Everyone has the option to veto any book, and they don’t need to share a reason. The veto is absolute. People rank their votes, 3 points for their first choice, 2 for their second, and 1 point for third, and the book with the most points is the next book we read.

        Something like a list where everyone has to rank their top 3 activities, and then can anonymously veto any activities could work similarly.

        Also, minor league sports games are, in my opinion, often more fun for people who aren’t sports fans, as the games tend to have more entertainment that isn’t just about the sport. Last minor league baseball game I went to, for example, had a mini carnival attached to it and also a lot of local food trucks and a mini artist’s market. So even if you have zero interest in baseball, there was something that likely appealed to you.

    9. What She Said*

      As someone with a physical chronic illness and I get everyone is different but I truly enjoyed Bocce Ball. It’s physical but you can sit in between turns and it’s very low skill, low physical strength needed. It’s also fun to just watch the games as well if you wanna skip your turn. Most places serve food and drinks so there’s a little bit for everyone. I’d totally do that one again.

    10. Need suggestions!*

      Thanks so much, these are all great suggestions. And I appreciate the ones who pointed out things to keep in mind re: allergies, physicality, and claustrophobia.

    11. Generic Name*

      I just went to a networking event last night that consisted of tailgating prior to a concert and then attending the outdoor concert (for those of you in the Denver area, it was Red Rocks!). I would say it’s pretty inclusive (wide range of food/drink options offered, ADA accessible).

      1. Mid*

        I might actually enjoy a networking event if it was at Red Rocks! And yes, that venue is very ADA accessible, which surprises people considering it’s a giant, semi-natural amphitheater known for having a lot of stairs.

        But yes! Events with multiple activities can be the best option, because then there’s likely at least one part that someone will enjoy. Even if you don’t like the music, there’s also the fresh air, food, the option to do more nature-y things, and socializing. Also, last time I was at Red Rocks specifically, there were vendors selling N/A beer along with other N/A drinks and alcoholic drinks, which was a nice thing to see.

    12. PollyQ*

      Whatever you pick, mix it up. There will never be anything that’s agreeable to everyone, but if you rotate through different kinds of activities throughout a year, then hopefully everybody will get a chance to participate.

    13. Blarg*

      Since we’re getting into local specifics, in DC, the Spy Museum is .. EPIC and wonderful for individuals, families, and groups. And there are museums with similar levels of interactivity and such elsewhere. Although probably not as cool as the Spy Museum. Which is seriously very impressive, and no, I don’t work there. :)

    14. Anon on this*

      A primarily-male group may or may not be grimly competitive, but if they are, competitive events may not work well. Women shouldn’t have to join any competition that will end up being “who’s the alpha male?” That’s just too fraught. For that reason I’d drop just bowling from Disney Channel This’s excellent list. (Bad bowling experience: I was randomly teamed with the vice president in our department’s “fun game.” I don’t bowl but I was willing to give it a go for fun. As other teams with better bowlers overtook our score, he stopped joking, then stopped talking, and pretty soon he was just glaring at me with steam rolling out his ears. He had to invent an extra prize on the spur of the moment and award me “worst bowler” in front of everyone just to prove it wasn’t his fault we didn’t win. Really, people, competitions with overly competitive men are Not Fun and can be less team building than team damaging.)

      1. JustaTech*

        Yeah, the “how competitive are folks” is an important thing to consider when picking activities.
        We did a bowling thing years ago where everyone was very light hearted about the whole thing and not really paying attention to the score until one of the monitors dinged and we realized that one guy had a near-perfect score. He was all super modest about it, “oh, my wife is much better than me”. Turns out his wife was a nationally ranked bowling champion for years.
        But he was absolutely not competitive about it at all, so it stayed fun (and since no one else could reach his score, the people who might have been inclined to be competitive didn’t bother).

    15. Keener*

      I did an escape room with work colleagues and had a great time. Everyone found different but meaningful ways to contribute.

  15. Form Filler*

    Looking for idea on how to get senior leaders to turn in their hourly billing information. We are a medium size firm that does client work – we need everyone to fill out their timesheets every 2 weeks so we can bill clients. The junior staff through middle management do a great job – I think they still retain fear of being “in trouble” while senior staff – partners! – are weeks late in turning in their timesheets, delaying billing.

    We are not in a field with a lot of administrative support expected and even if we had the people to do it, the only people who know how many hours a partner worked on what are the partners themselves. We are discussing making this an item that is considered at bonus time. I suggested a public list of offenders. We profit share with all employees so they are costing everyone money.

    Any suggestions for how your professional service firm gets senior staff to turn in their billable hour details? Make it more frequent so its easier to remember? They can log daily or hourly if they want – they are only required to turn it in every 2 weeks.

    1. Bagpuss*

      I would suggest asking for it to be turned in more frequently – also,while time consuming to prodice, maybe evidence of what the issues are – e.g. delays in billing = delays in aymsesnt – what actual costs does thet create? Do you have more non-payers /slowlow payers when they are not billed promptly? Are you paying more / losing interest if bills are delayed?
      If it actually costs money maybe showing how much it is costing and (if feasible) breaking it down by person and giving the figures to the worst offenders may help.

      Also maybe consider havng a meeting with the worst offenders and aking them how they log their time and what stops them providing the information in a timely way. It may be that they don’t see it as importnat and o it is constnatly pushed down their list of things to do.

      (it may be that looking at software which lets them record as they go along would help, or an automated daily reminder, or suggesting blocking out time on a regualr basis specifically to complete them, for instance. I’ve always worked places where I have to time record and where it’s been daily, with the timesheets submitted evey day, but we will be working on multiple matters evey day for short periods – if you might spend all day on a single matter nthen doing it less freqently may make sense.

      For us, it is tied to bonuses in that bonuses are based on costs paid, so bonueses are calcualte in May and paid in 2 parts – May and Setpember, so if you have a lot of unpaid bills then you won’t get that element of the bonues until september, and if they are not paid by sepember you don’t get that element at all, so if you delay billing it delays the bonus, and if the slow billing menas more bad debts it affects the emplyee BUT we would only rarely havemore than one person working on a file, ithis approach wouldn’t work if you have multiple people working on the same bill as it would penalise the ones who turned in their hour promptly.

      I suppose you could have a system where non-compliance with policies including the policy around timing of submitting sheets was considered, so that someone who was regualrly late would have that taken into account.

    2. ferrina*

      I love the idea of tying bonuses to this. I’ve found that that can be a strong motivator with upper management.

      I’ve also used gentle humor. Humorous emails (no snark), poems, calling people directly…sometimes honey catches more senior leaders than vinegar. (my favorite is the sheepish grin when they see me walking down the hall, followed by promptly taking care of whatever the thing was)

      I’d also approach it as a process problem. Is there a way that they can delegate it to other staff? Sometimes sr leaders are so overloaded that “admin” is the thing that they’ll neglect, or they are using their own system that they’ve used for a decade and don’t really want to change. Is there a way that someone can fill out their time card for them (maybe by using their notes, or if sr. leaders can put blocks on their calendar that can be translated to accounts)? Then they just need to approve the time card rather than write it. Or somehow make it easier for them?

    3. lost academic*

      As someone who’s almost exclusively been on billable time I can’t fathom people being so casual about this! Our performance metrics were tied to billable hours and the senior staff were in charge of managing the budgets and billables and had similar metrics around them, it would be suicide to NOT submit a weekly timesheet with accurate billing information.

      I will give a couple examples for two firms, either of which can potentially work for you. The first, larger firm had rigid structure around timesheets being done on X day by Y time. Reminders went out constantly. You would be Chased Down by all levels of people if this wasn’t done. I did not love this approach because I thought it was a little wasteful of time but people did obsessively get their time in, and did have the opportunity to adjust anything that changed after they submitted it on the following timesheet.

      Second company I’ll mention does not take this approach and is engaged in identical work with identical types of staff. There are automatic reminders that go out daily starting on Friday and ending Monday morning. There is a semi automated one and then one or two personal follow ups Monday for the previous week. If your timesheet isn’t completed and submitted, you are simply not included in that week’s payroll. No threats or warnings, they just don’t have your data so it’s assumed you just took unpaid time off. Let me tell you, people get their act together when they find THAT out.

      It is the second I might suggest to you. You’re not submitting your timesheet? You must not have worked. (In both cases, timesheet software required time to be allocated at a minimum of 40 hours, inclusive of holidays, PTO and nonbillable codes too.)

    4. Princess Xena*

      Our admin staff has started sending out all-office emails with the names of everyone who hasn’t turned in timesheets for over a week. Very effective.

    5. Generic Name*

      Doing billable hours every two weeks sounds like a nightmare. I assume your company does zero federal contracting. If you do, I would look up the requirements surrounding that. My company does some federal work, and we require employees to fill out time sheets daily. I think the only way to make anyone do anything at work is to hold them accountable. Who does senior leadership report to? Does the CEO/COO/President/whoever reliably fill out time sheets? If not, then you’ve got a huge problem. Whoever is in charge needs to hold upper managers accountable.

    7. BlueWolf*

      My understanding at our firm is that partners’ year-end bonus gets reduced if they don’t keep up with submitting their time by the assigned deadlines.

    8. Foley*

      At a large law firm the ONLY thing that was remotely successful was suspending base pay. Because of the income scale, though, it takes months for the worst offenders to be affected.

      The other move was/is always a huge CSR (client service rep) push to get hours billed and money collected by December 31 because it’s calendar accounting and affects bonuses directly. All money is paid out and if it doesn’t come in, it doesn’t get paid out.

      I’m not sure of your structure, but the very partners who are the worst offenders are those who vote/decide the penalties, so after about 20 years I’ve seen nothing really work across the board. Not to discourage, but wanted to be truthful.

  16. Anon for this one*

    I’m in the final stages of consideration for a senior position at a small firm. For the second interview, we’ll be meeting up at a happy hour (there will be 4-5 of their senior execs). I’m not super excited about the format, mostly because social situations like that give me anxiety (which I can push through – I tend to be an ambivert) and also it is generally hard for me to hear well in loud spaces. I also am freaking out about what to wear, but I’ll figure it out.

    Not really sure there is a question in here – mostly looking for some solidarity around social interviews and how they should probably go the way of the dinosaur, and any tips for folks that have done social interviews and have recommendations.

    2. hi hello*

      I won’t lie, I like the social interview… It’s the only time as an interviewee I’ve been able to get a real feel for whether I will fit with the organization. I know there are serious equity issues around them (people tend to “click” best with others like them), but I would try to think about it as the only time you’re going to see your team as they normally are if you decide to take the job. So, you should treat it like your chance to look behind the curtain.

      My recommendation is to treat it like your chance to evaluate them. Let them do a lot of the talking and think about how they’re interacting, whether they’re positive or negative people, etc. Thinking of it as YOUR time to be critical can really help make it feel less stacked against you!

      1. Anon for this one*

        Thank you! I will probably actually enjoy it once I’m there – and these are good points of how to navigate it without feeling overly awkward.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Wear something work-y, since you’ll all be coming from work. BUT make sure your shoes are comfortable! I recently did a client lunch in wedges and changed to flats for the happy hour.

      One drink maximum. Nothing too fizzy if you’re prone to gas. :-) If someone asks why you’re not drinking anymore, you can say you’re “one and done” or, if you’re vibing well, joke that it’s your first meeting and you want to make sure you’re bringing your A game.

      1. Anon for this one*

        Totally hear you on the flats advice; I’ve also been really thinking about what won’t make me sweaty (I will be panicky and more prone to flushing and sweat plus summer time…)

        Yes on the drinks too! I think I might just stick to cranberry and soda; altho one martini is easy enough to sip on as well. I tend to get tired with alcohol and I’m always gassy no matter what – but I really appreciate the one and done phrase!

  17. NotBatman*

    Has anyone else successfully solved an issue with young interns/undergrads showing up to 1:1 meetings way too early? I work in academia, and — with 2 interns, 14 advisees, ~50 students — eager young people will consistently show up over 15 minutes before our scheduled time. This creates all kinds of problems:

    – I haven’t yet looked over my advising notes for my 12:45 when she walks in at 12:20 and starts talking.
    – I’m in a Zoom meeting at 1:40 when my 2:00 knocks on the door, then (when I don’t answer, but she can see me) yells “Dr. X? Can you let me in? I’m here for our 2:00!”
    – I once came back from the bathroom at 10:45 to find my 11:00 trying to get my office door open; she said she’d planned to wait for me inside.
    – I’m talking to my 10:00 (with the door open, as required) when my 11:00 walks in to say “just letting you know I’m here!”
    – If I know I’m meeting with Belinda and Brunhilda this morning, and Brunhilda walks in at 10:10, then I’ll assume she’s my 10:15 — only to realize mid-meeting that she’s my 10:45, and that Belinda is my 10:15. Now I have either ask Brunhilda to leave so I can meet Belinda, or stick my head into the hallway and ask Belinda to come back later.

    I don’t think this is lack of respect, just total unfamiliarity with professional norms and having over-internalized that “early is on time” saying. Also nervousness — if Brunhilda’s 40 minutes early, it’s often because Brunhilda’s terrified she’ll have to drop out of college. But this also means I start tensing up at around 2:10 not knowing when my 3:00 is going to spring on me. Our offices have windows we can’t block (again, safety) so pretending to be away isn’t an option.

    So is there anything I can do (Sign on my office door? Chairs in the hall outside? Email note? Calendar app message? Case-by-case conversations?) to try and forestall the problem? Thanks!

    1. londonedit*

      I’d probably go with a combination of approaches. Definitely a sign on your door saying that people should arrive/knock on your door no earlier than 5 minutes before their scheduled appointment time, but also having something on the calendar notification that says ‘Please do not arrive earlier than 5 minutes before your scheduled appointment time’. And it might also be worth doing a general emailed FYI that people need to stick to their scheduled appointments and not arrive early.

    2. Anon for this one*

      I think all the items you mentioned as potential options are great. Have a couple of chairs outside, a sign that says – “In a meeting – please wait until I come to gather you” along with calendar messaging.

      Also, if these are folks that are students – maybe adding a short module to your lecture on professional norms at the beginning of the semester/learning period to talk about office hours and your expectations.

    3. Not a Real Giraffe*

      When you confirm the appointment, I would explicitly spell out the behavior you want to see. “Please do not arrive early for this appointment, as I have meetings with other students scheduled before you. If you do arrive early, please wait outside and do not interrupt.” If you send a reminder, include these instructions again.

      Put a sign up on your door or just outside the door. Make sure it is very visible. (Chairs outside are a great idea!) If you are interrupted anyway, redirect in the moment and then spend the first few minutes of your appointment with the offender talking about what happened and what needs to happen next time.

      Good luck; I used to work with college students and no matter how many ways I tried to prevent these things from happening, I realized they simply will not read the instructions!

    4. Annony*

      Chairs in the hall would be a good idea to give them somewhere to wait. A note on the door when you are in a meeting letting them know that you are in a meeting and they should wait in the chair is a good idea too. If you aren’t in a meeting and they try to start early, just interrupt and let them know that you aren’t ready yet and ask them to wait in the chairs in the hall until the appointment time. Depending on how the meetings are set up, you can let them know ahead of time to wait in the hall until the meeting time.

    5. Hlao-roo*

      I don’t think this is lack of respect, just total unfamiliarity with professional norms and having over-internalized that “early is on time” saying.

      It is almost certainly this. I had to learn early in my career that “15 min early is on time and on time is late” might be a good saying when applied to showing up to a sports game or a flight but is totally inappropriate in most work contexts.

      Set expectations around “on time is on time for 1-on-1 meetings” whenever you first interact with your interns/advisees/students. Students and interns are easiest, because you can tell the students in class and the interns during their new hire orientation. For advisees, tell them whenever/however the advisor/advisee meetings get scheduled.

      Some of them will not hear the announcement, some will hear it but forget, and some will hear it and remember but their anxiety will override it and so you will still have people showing up early. Your case-by-case script should start with confirming what time their appointment is, and if they are early, politely but firmly telling them to wait (in the hall, in the campus coffee shop, etc.) until it is time for their appointment.

    6. Lady_Lessa*

      I’d consider both chairs in the hall and a note on your door letting the students know that you will only be ready for them at the scheduled meeting time.

      1. Bagpuss*

        This.

        I’d also include somethingin your initial information when tou first meet with them – e.g. to lwt them know as part of that tht if they arrive early, they should wait outside until the time of their meeting / appointment, not to just open the door or walk in (In my job, I have 3 options – door open = come in, door closed = knock and wait, door closed + engaged sign = don’t knock or interrupt unless the building is on fire. But I am only dealing with a relatively small number of people with a low turnover – obviously your milegage may vary)

        And then deal on a case bu case basis – e.g. if someonejust walks in or puts their head round thedor, direct them tbacck outside to wait (and get in the habit of checking – e.g. if you have several booked ask them what time their appointment is and then as ecessary you can either be ‘OK, you’re a bit early, I have a couple of things to finish up so take a seat and I’ll call you in as soon as I am ready’ or ‘OK, I actually have another appointment ahead of yours, if you want to wait you can take a seat, but your appointment isn’t until 10.30 so you may prefer to come back then,rather than waiting’

    7. former academic*

      Signs and chairs are the simplest solution. A place to wait comfortably and a sign on the closed door that says, meeting in session, please wait until called in. A welcome packet or memo or just a note given to everyone at the beginning of term outlining (briefly! and clearly!) the expectation that if you arrive early, please wait in the hall without interrupting. That really should be enough.

    8. DisneyChannelThis*

      Can you make a visible hard copy of your daily schedule outside your door? I’m not sure if I’d stick the students names on there or not (privacy) but it’d give them a clue if you are busy and they should wait.

      At the start of your meetings start confirming the name and time with who you meet in person. “Bruhilda – 10:15 to 10:45 meeting right?” Or “Just want to let you know I have another meeting immediately after this at 10:45” if you’re sure you’ve got the right student already. That gives a clear time expectation and a chance to go no wait I’m belinda our meetings at 10:45.

      My WFH coworker has a spinning wheel for her toddlers that has “red – no interruptions” , “yellow – interrupt if urgent” and “green – come on in!” that works well for communicating with both the kids and the nanny. Could you implement something similar? A “In a zoom meeting – do not disturb” sign would solve the knocking issue. Likewise holding up a whiteboard “on zoom till 2 come back then!” sign might work thru the window.

      Meanwhile address each one in the moment.
      “Letting you know I’m here” – Thanks Belinda but please don’t interupt until our meeting at 11. (Also maybe a computer way to let them ‘sign in’ without interupting? Like a google spreadsheet they could edit from a phone, def had profs who just extended the prev appointment until they were interrupted, so if you were polite and out of sight you never got your office hours slot).

      “I was going to wait inside” – I need you to wait in the hallway or in a student area, I can’t have students alone with the exams and student info in my office

      1220 walks in at 1245 – Sorry Belinda I had you down for 1245 would you mind coming back in 20 minutes? I need to finish this real quick. There’s a vending machine down the hall.

      If these are all students from the same class – it might be worth setting expectations with the class as a whole. Just to let you know, I need to keep my meeting times strict, if you are early please wait in the hall.

    9. Educator*

      One other possibility–do your colleagues schedule specific time slots with students, or do they provide drop-in office hour windows? I know drop-in office hours are more common where I have worked, and your students might be used to that and acting accordingly. It would not explain the barging in behavior–that’s just rude and needs to be corrected–but it would explain why they are showing up early if they are used to first-come, first-serve. Could be worth asking around to see how your colleagues handle this and thinking about what system would be most convenient for you.

      1. NotBatman*

        I do also have drop-in office hours, they’re posted on my door… and if they’re clearly marked as starting at 9:00, I still get people coming by at 8:45 sometimes. But I like the idea of asking around to see if more senior colleagues have solutions, since they’ve undoubtedly experienced similar problems.

    10. By Golly*

      Chairs outside would go a long way to help this. Most college students, when on campus, are going from one thing to the next and have no real “home” base close to where academic life happens. If you have a meeting at 10:45 but your previous class ends at 10:15, it’s likely you’ll just head to the next place and assume you can wait there, or perhaps have your meeting a little early, making the next block of open time a little bigger to allow for getting to the library or a favorite study spot. If there is no place close to your office for a student to settle in and wait, I can see how they might choose the option of interrupting to show they are early rather than walking somewhere else where you might never know they arrived.

      1. Tired*

        A couple of chairs outside did wonders for me. It’s just in my eye line so students arrive, wave and sit down, knowing I know they’re there

    11. Busy academic here*

      Look at them in paniced horror while clutching paperwork. Exhale loudly. Say with massive stress in your voice “Is it 2:00 already? I was planning on you being here at 2. Um, can you come back at 2? I’m not ready yet?” If they are just early they leave and come back. If they start crying, talk to them now. Note: the panicked response is not generally fake. I just don’t hide my response to them disrupting my tight schedule

  18. XF1013*

    When does misnaming someone rise to the level of employment discrimination?

    A few days ago, a transgender letter writer asked for help getting coworkers to remember a new masculine name after going by a gender-neutral nickname for some time. (9/12/22, “will I be implicated in my coworker leaving early, stopping a nickname, and more”)

    This reminded me of an older question from a manager having trouble getting their team to stop calling its one foreign member by an American name that the person disliked because it was easier for them. (8/22/16, “my employees refuse to call their coworker by her real name”)

    In both cases, malice was not intended by the offenders, but it still caused harm to the person being misnamed. They were the only person being misnamed in their respective teams, and the misnaming in each case was based on a protected class, either sex or national origin.

    Would either of these be grounds for a discrimination lawsuit? If not, what else would it take for misnaming to qualify as discrimination or harassment?

    1. PollyQ*

      IANAL, so I won’t attempt to answer the legal question, but I disagree that the second example wasn’t malicious. That team was much too attached to their “right” to call their co-worker by a nickname they made up for it to be called “accidental.”

    2. Princess Xena*

      Not a lawyer, but I think you’d have to have official misnaming on things like formal paperwork or additional harassment on similar grounds for it to qualify for a discrimination lawsuit. You’d have grounds to complain to management long before – “Fergus and Jane are continuing to deliberately use my old name in written and spoken communication even after I’ve asked them several times to stop”. Any sensible management should then step in to prevent it from going to management.

      In either case, I would not expect a lawsuit to get particularly far unless someone wanted to spend a lot of money on making a point. It’s more likely that if management didn’t step in the harassed employee would quit and receive additional severance/unemployment.

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I would think if it creates a real, by legal definition, hostile work environment, it would rise to that level. If a LGBTQ+ person being misnamed was based upon their gender or perceived gender — e.g. calling a gay man Nancy — or the wrong name was based on a bias/stereotype of their race, nationality or religion — eg. calling someone of Middle Eastern origin Muhammed because of their religion or nationality, and not because it was even close to their name — etc. and it was severe or pervasive. But if one or two people are occasionally getting someone’s name wrong, or shortening it to a common nickname, it doesn’t seem to rise to that level. If my name is Jennifer and people keep calling me Jen or Jenny, but it’s not meant as a slur on my race, religion, nationality, etc., it’s rude and offensive, but not discrimination.

    4. fhqwhgads*

      My understanding is both do. One is discriminating based on national origin, the other by gender. That said, someone doing either once, being corrected and stopping doesn’t. But the extent to which it was happening in both letters you mentioned, could hit the threshold.

    5. marvin*

      I can’t hope to comment on the legal question, but on an ethical level, I think malice is actually a very high bar. A lot of harm can be done by people who think they’re doing the right thing or who aren’t really thinking through their actions at all. I think we tend to vastly overestimate how many people who act badly consciously intend to hurt the other person. Which is kind of a scary thought because we have to reckon with all of the unconscious harm we have probably caused. But it also means that there is a similar path of improvement that’s open to all of us.

  19. On-site daycare questions*

    Can I get some advice on when in the interview process to ask for details about the company’s on-site daycare? I know you’re supposed to limit family talk during interviews (I’m a late 20s woman fwiw) but I’m pretty happy in my current role and on-site daycare is my biggest draw for applying to the new place.

    Also, any thoughts on on-site daycares overall? I have an infant and live in a very HCOL city with no current childcare availability for miles, so this would be a huge perk even if the subsidy is small.

    1. Anon for this one*

      You might just lead with – what are some policies and programs you have in place that support new parents and families?

    2. a tester, not a developer*

      I’d confirm what the process is for getting a spot – the wait list at my old office was 2+ years (we had a year of mat leave), so if you needed coverage you needed to apply the moment you knew you were pregnant, and have a plan for coverage until a spot came open.

      I heard our daycare was great – never did get a spot in it. LOL

      1. lost academic*

        Yup this. You can ask outside of the interview process for parents’ experience with it (Facebook groups for instance) but ask specifically about the waitlist for your children’s ages. You can also potentially get that information by calling the director on your own. Everyone I know who used the on-site daycare for Large Corp HQ in our little suburb of a NE city loved it, but at the same time, it opened to the public before COVID too as the company didn’t I guess have enough kids of the right ages to keep it solvent. I worked in a building near it and considered it, but I am actually STILL on the waitlist for preschool/toddler ages so there’s that.

      2. Green Goose*

        This! At our local flagship college there is a heavily subsidized daycare for PhD students and staff and it’s advertised but… the wait list is years and they have no intention of expanding the amount of children they serve.

    3. KayDeeAye*

      Don’t some companies mention this on their website? It’s a huge selling point for potential employees, after all.

      1. On-site daycare questions*

        I know it exists, which is confirmed by the website/glassdoor, but the details regarding cost, open slots, waitlist, COVID policies, etc aren’t on the website.

    4. Weekender*

      Is the on-site daycare a chain like Bright Horizons?
      If so, you could call them directly to get pricing (if that is what you are looking for).

      I worked at a place that had Bright Horizons as the day care provider. They are a chain that has a big focus on education. It was very good for our family. The fact that it was on-site didn’t matter. Where I worked was so large, it was no time savings for me to have it on-site. I still had to drive to get my child after I left work. I couldn’t walk over to get them because of the distance and a major road in between the daycare and my office.

      My employer claimed the tuition was subsidized but I could have gone to another chain daycare in the area for almost the same price. And they had some weird rules that outside daycares didn’t have (at that time anyway). For example, my company had a week shutdown for the holidays and the daycare closed completely. I still was required to pay for that week even though my office was closed and the daycare was closed. You also had to pay if the daycare was closed (certain holidays) or if you were going to be out for a planned vacation. The rules became out of hand at times and there was no accommodation for one-off situations. They were run by their corporate headquarters and not my company.

      1. On-site daycare questions*

        It actually is a Bright Horizons! Unfortunately the coordinator wanted proof that I worked there before giving any details. Good to know about the tuition and closures though.

        1. OtterB*

          We had our kids in a Bright Horizons center. They are in their late 20s now so it’s been quite some time. I don’t remember details on wait list. It was affiliated with my husband’s office so our game plan was that he would take them to and from … seemed like a good idea, but then he ended up on a project involving extensive travel, so I had to take them to day care, back track to my own job, then swing over to pick them up when the day was over. The logistics were a challenge, but we loved the center and it was worth it. It was good for my older daughter, who is a typical kid, but it was wonderful for my younger daughter who has special needs. Really, they were great with her. Financially, I think the company subsidized the center’s rent and utilities. The charges were not much lower than surrounding centers, but my understanding is that they offered their staff better pay and benefits so they had more staff stability.

      2. Esmeralda*

        Lots of daycare centers will do this: their staff needed a holiday too. If we were out for any other reason (kid sick, vacation, whatever), of course we had to pay— it’s not like they could fill the slot for that time with some other kid.

        If you buy an annual parking permit, you don’t get reimbursed for days you don’t use your car. If you have a gym membership, you don’t get reimbursed if you sloth off for a couple of weeks. Daycare center is the same — you’re paying for the opportunity to use it, as well as for the actual services.

    5. Angelinha*

      I’d wait until you have an offer in hand, then get all the information you need about the daycare and wait list length before you accept.

  20. Process Documentation Help?*

    I work in a small academic library and we’re looking for a wiki-style solution for organizing our documentation. We have tons of very detailed documentation on every process we do, from checking out materials, to communicating hour changes with IT, to what needs to be sent to HR when a new employee is hired; it’s tons of information but really helpful both as a new hire and as a reminder for those tasks you do just once a year. The problem is that we haven’t found a good way to store this info.

    A while ago, the documentation was all kept in a GIANT Word document. The benefit of that was that it was easy to search, but the problem was that it got to be so large that it became glitchy/unwieldy. Then, they used some sort of blog solution that I guess didn’t work super well. But for the whole time that I’ve worked here, all of our documentation has been kept in One Note. The ability to create different pages within the shared notebook is nice, but the formatting isn’t consistent and the search function doesn’t work. So, my question for all of you is whether your organization has a knowledge base/documentation wiki that’s actually useful. Do you have any recommendations for an alternative to One Note we could investigate? Ideally, whatever solution we pursue would be free, but we’re desperate enough to hear about paid options.

    TLDR: do you have any ideas for an organizable and searchable centralized location for all documentation for job processes? Preferably free/cheap and easy to use for people with next to no programming know how? Thank you!

    3. Roland*

      All the tech companies I’ve worked at have used Confluence. Idk if the price is out of range for an academic library though.

    4. Svennerson*

      Gonna join the chorus of voices recommending Confluence. Great branching to organize your processes well, while still maintaining search functionality and not being any more complicated than Word.

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Github.
        You can just do everything in a Wiki – no actual files in the project. Or you can include the files like PDF forms in the project tree, with all the commentary in the Wiki.

        It tracks changes nicely.

    5. Baeolophus bicolor*

      I’ll throw a different solution out there – if there are people willing to learn a little bit of XML, DITA might be a good solution. You make a separate file for each separate concept or task and can link them all together in a map that can be produced as either a PDF or webhelp, basically a website. Definitely more start up effort, but if you get a program like Oxygen (which has a really easy to use Author view, like typing in a word doc with a few extra steps) and can get everyone on board it’ll be versatile and easy to maintain.

    6. Isben Takes Tea*

      We just switched to Notion, which I vastly prefer to Confluence for readability and visual data organization.

    7. Parenthesis Dude*

      Confluence. Costs change based on company size, but you’re generally talking $5.50 per month per user. So, if you have 100 people, you’re talking $550 a month. Github isn’t a bad solution either.

    8. Unfettered scientist*

      TiddlyWiki. It’s free, you can easily link between notes and protocols, endlessly customizable and self contained in an html notebook. You do need to be ok writing wiki text but it’s very very similar to markdown and there are buttons for auto inserting things like headings, bullets, numbered lists, etc.

      1. Generalist*

        Might be too late for you to see this, but I strongly recommend Manula. For $100/year you can have a very robust system.

    9. The Real Fran Fine*

      Check out ClickHelp. They have free trials you can use to first see if it’ll meet your needs, and I think it’s cheaper than some of the other options on the market (don’t quote me on that though).

    10. krysb*

      I’m so late to this, but can someone tell me how searchable it is? I’m trying to pitch stuff to my work because…. well, let’s not pretend that process documentation and information is easy to review in Word docs loaded to SharePoint.

  21. SFal*

    I work in academia and I’m pretty sure I’m about to get offered the job to be the head admin of the department (currently I’m the post award admin)

    I had debated long and hard about even applying, but was encouraged to by my boss and the former admin. It’s 2x my current salary. After meeting with the chair I started to have a lot of doubts, and after helping the interim head I’m having even more. I don’t know if I really care or am interested in the department budgets-I like research as it has set rules and can be a fun puzzle. I got my certified research admin certification last year, and have really put it to good use. Then there’s the question of if I’d still be able to work remote-they want 5 days in office-I can’t do more than 3 (or I’d have to leave early to get my kids from school and I’d be the on call parent those days)

    It’s alot more stress, and budgets in less interested in, but I’d really get to shape the department I think. But I’d have to work with the new assistant chair and she’s the worst. Plus I’d have to manage all my former coworkers and that feels weird. Also I know the second choice as it’s internal, and yea….concerns there to.

    My partner just sees the $$ and thinks I should try it for a year and if I hate it bail. My family thinks I just don’t want to work a harder job-and that I want to use my coasting job where I have more free time but less $ and less control.

    I have the weekend to decide. What factors to weigh? If I do end up saying no-how to do that without burning a entire bridge and feeling like I wasted everyone’s time.

    1. hi hello*

      Not knowing the whole situation, I’m with your partner… try it for a year, and if it really isn’t a good fit, then you can help find a replacement who is a better fit.

      If you choose not to accept, I would frame it in “fit” terms as well — just highlight the (concrete, specific) things you love about your current job that you wouldn’t be able to do with that other job, and say that those are more important to you than anything else. So, it’s not that you don’t want the job, but it isn’t as good of a fit for your interests, passions, etc.

    2. Sunshine*

      I just want to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with not aspiring to a harder job. Free time and less stress are both amazing benefits that can be more valuable than money, honestly.

      Twice your salary is a significant bump – if you have certain financial goals you’re trying to meet, like paying off debt or buying a house, it might be worth trying this for a while and seeing where you end up. But I would talk to them first about the remote flexibility and see where that conversation gets you. And if the job isn’t for you, you haven’t wasted anyone’s time! Interviews are how we learn more about the position and the people we’d be working with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying “thank you so much for your consideration, but after learning more about the role I feel like my current position is a better fit for me right now.”

      1. Witch*

        Absolutely right there with you that there’s nothing wrong with getting a “harder” job just because. Ignore that entire emotional aspect, focus on the concrete.

        – It’s more money but will be mean more time in the office. How is your partner suggesting you both deal with this?
        – You’d be dealing with budgets, not something you’re interested in.
        – You don’t like the new assistant chair (how new? Could you find a balance?)
        – You’d be managing former coworkers (this is just an emotional thing you’ll need to figure out. Imo it /can/ be weird but that don’t mean it /has/ to be weird.

        I think you should only take it if you are accepting of the work they’re asking you to do; budgetary stuff.

    3. Velociraptor Attack*

      I’m stuck on one thing, you say your partner thinks you should try it for a year but also mention that you couldn’t be in office 5 days a week because of school pickup.

      Is your partner also the other parent and if so does their support mean they’re willing to take over pickup 5 days a week?

      1. SFal*

        He manages pickup the other 3 days when he’s working remotely. But the two days he’s in his office which is over a hour away. Him being the ‘on call’ parent that day doesn’t work.

        The only way I’d be able to come in 5 days a week is if on those 2 days I could leave at 230-which probably means I’d have to be in by 630ish?

    4. cardigarden*

      So, re your partner’s thoughts of trying it for a year and then bailing if you don’t like it: where would you bail TO? You probably won’t be able to go back to your previous position, which most likely means leaving the department entirely. How easy is it to get a lateral or other position in a different department? If you have to leave your institution, what’s the job market like in your area? The 1 year salary bump won’t go far if there aren’t other research positions to jump to.

      I don’t think it would burn bridges to frame it (to the people who recommended you apply) as “it’s really encouraging that you think I’m capable of this level of work, but the more I learned about this position, the more I realized that research is really what I want to be doing.”

      Good luck!

    5. seepy witt*

      I’m in the same line of work. How big is the department? The actual work is really not *that* different than post award and I suspect you’d get used to it. I will say that I went from a department that was totally funded by sponsored projects to managing a department that also had general university funds and the two systems of management were just different enough that it drove me nuts some days. But that’s mainly because my university has terrible training and it seems like even some of the other admins don’t know how the system works.

      That said, if I were you, my biggest hangups would be flexible scheduling and working for someone you don’t get along with. Will the extra money allow you to outsource some of the other things (after school pickup, house cleaning) so it’s not so big of a loss of your free time?

      1. SFal*

        We’re a big science department. 35 Full time faculty, 15 teaching faculty, 3 bldgs. About 120 research grants between everyone-not to mention all the students paid from a wide variety of places and general funds. It’s a beast.

        I think the chair talking about the grand semester plan to save costs on copiers and how to save on start up packages just did not sound appealing.

    6. Frog&Toad*

      How does your partner plan to support you? Can they adjust their schedule to handle more childcare? If yes, are they WILLING to adjust?

    7. ntt*

      Hi SFal! Just wanted to say I’m also in higher ed admin and struggling with a similar decision – no advice, just solidarity! I’m choosing between a higher-paying but less organized, more stressful, all-in-person job with people I feel so-so about BUT a place where I could have a huge impact and that could really further my career because of the uniqueness of the project; or a lower-paying job that I frankly am worried I’ll be bored at, but I got a good impression of the manager, plus would have a hybrid schedule and be able to stay well within 40 hrs/wk.

      Writing it out now, it seems like job B is the obvious choice, but job A is the type of thing I’ve been wanting/waiting to do for my entire career… I just wish it paid more and had better people on the team.

      My best friend is also encouraging me to take a risk with job A and then bail if I don’t like it after a year. I’m also trying to negotiate the salary up (my offer is not quite as big of a $ jump as yours) to make up for some of the downsides that I’m anticipating. Trying to tell myself that no matter what I choose, I’ll find ways to make it a good opportunity for me. Good luck with your decision this weekend!

    8. Blarg*

      Do the math on remote vs in-office. Cost of gas/wear and tear on the car or transit passes. Dry cleaning. Lunches and dinners (cause inevitably you end up going out more when you’re already out) and vending machine snacks and the coffee shop. Child care in the afternoons, school holidays, summer. And your time — does an 8 hour day become an 11 hour day with the commute? What’s the hourly rate difference then?

      I’d be hard pressed to give up remote work at this point — it would have to be like … I can’t even think of an example.

    9. Pocket Mouse*

      I’m not sure if this applies to you, but from the experience of a family member in academia: check what the higher salary means for retirement. If you expect to receive a pension that’s pegged to your highest salary within the system, it may be worth incorporating that consideration into your calculations.

    10. Mac (I Wish All The Floors Were Lava)*

      If you’re contemplating working with someone who is “the worst”, is there any way you can shadow her for half a day or something? At my last job (a smallish nonprofit) I accepted a position as an assistant to the fundraising head in addition to my other job, just trying to be helpful in a hiring pinch. I knew by the first day it was a mistake, because she was AWFUL. I went home with a headache from grinding my teeth. It’s possible that a few hours of trial run will either convince you no amount of money could be worth it, (or, more optimistically, that actually she’s not that bad?)

  22. NeonDreams*

    I am so glad for the open thread this week. I’m struggling with something and have been off and on for months.

    I left my call center job last November. I was absolutely miserable there. It was the textbook definition of burnout. Yet I don’t like the current job I hold, either. The process bores me to death. That can’t be changed. Everyone here is super nice and has bent over backwards to get me accommodated. So it hurts that I don’t like it. I feel like it’s not a good enough reason it look for something else. My family’s like, you should just concentrate harder. Which leads me to my next point.

    I’ve discovered this year at 34 I have symptoms of ADHD. This wasn’t on my radar until my friend mentioned it. The symptoms match me to a T. I got evaluated but the doctor thought my symptoms are just part my already existing anxiety and depression. It’s brought up a lot of grief and questions in what I should look for in a position. The call center stretched me to the brink, but my other position doesn’t challenge me enough. Ideally, I’d like to find somewhere in the middle but I don’t know what to look for. I signed up for a career coach, who helped me get the confidence to apply for this current position.

    Part of me feels like I’m in an existential crisis and the other is beating myself up for feeling that way because I’m fortunate to even have a job at all.

    Thank you for listening. I’m just lost and confused.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      One thing I’ve seen on this site that may help with the existential crisis (at least related to the ADHD diagnoses) is:

      A diagnoses doesn’t change who you are. You are still the same person you were last year. A diagnoses just gives you access to a toolbox to better understand who you are and how you interact with the world.

      I think you are smart to think about what jobs could/will be a better match for you. Not liking your job is a great reason to start looking for another one. Good luck with whichever path you choose in the future!

      1. NeonDreams*

        Logically, I know it doesn’t change anything, but my heart has a hard time accepting it. I spent years hating myself for these things an now I have an explanation. It’s validating, yes. but it also makes me grieve that it wasn’t discovered earlier.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Ah, I interpreted the line about grief the wrong way! I think it is reasonable to grieve for “what could have been” if you had gotten the diagnoses earlier.

    2. Justin*

      I got my ADHD dx at 35 last year. I chose to go into therapy to process it once it happened (not telling you what to do, just sharing), and it really helped me figure out how to approach future works. I also decided to live very publicly with it, which is a risk, but I found that masking (this version – wearing masks is good!) was more of a risk/damage to me than the stigma, and any future job was likely to find out if I was hiding it and dropped the ball anyway.

      So. Whether with a professional or a support group or friends, think about how you can manage your brain and what would make things the least hassle for you.

      1. NeonDreams*

        I’m in therapy and have been for 10 years or more. I’ve told my boss because she says offhandedly she has symptoms as well. But when she asked me why I’m not meeting my metrics, I said it was ADHD. She’s like, I can’t take that into consideration because you don’t have accommodations. I don’t know what kind of accommodations I could even ask for.

        I have lot of good support around me with my therapist, parents and friends. But it’s still bothering me a lot.

        1. Justin*

          I can’t tell you what you yourself need. Myself I mostly just need patience. I’m very very fast when put in a position to succeed. So maybe consider the new info you have, and think about what makes you move your best, and maybe you can work towards that. Mostly I just needed very clear instructions, and people not to disturb my blocked off focus time.

        2. Indubitably Delicious*

          Some accommodations I’ve had, formal and informal: flexible start time, ability to flex time within certain limits and/or wfh for certain projects, ability to channel most of my workflow through email so it’s in writing, ability to have a distraction blocker extension on my browser at work, weekly meetings with my supervisor to go over my project list and help prioritize tasks/move past mental blocks.

          Maybe none of this would work for you, or your needs are different, but if it’s a road you want to go down, that’s a start.

    3. Zap R.*

      Have you had these symptoms your whole life or did they pop up in the last few years? Were you an unusually chatty or spacey kid? Did homework take forever? If you went away to university, did school suddenly get A LOT harder?

      Answering those questions can help you determine whether the executive dysfunction is ADHD or anxiety/depression. Either way, I’m sorry this is happening to you. Solidarity, friend.

      1. Zap R.*

        (Also, not meaning to imply that you don’t know your situation or that you *haven’t* asked these questions. I just know that it can be tricky to untangle all of these issues from one another.)

        1. NeonDreams*

          I think I’ve had it my whole life, I just haven’t had words to describe it until recently. I was the kid that lost her homework or personal items, had a hard time paying attention in class, has a hard time keeping deadlines. I have a bachelor’s degree but it was difficult for both academic and personal reasons. I’ve always had trouble regulating my emotions and procrastinate on EVERYTHING (like I’m doing now, haha.)

          I’m in therapy and have been for 10 plus years. I feel like I have to put so much more mental effort to look like a ‘successful’ person than others do. For years I thought something was wrong with me, but it’s not. My genetics just happen to be wired this way.

    4. SJ (they/them)*

      If you can, please get a second opinion on the ADHD diagnosis! It’s heavily under-diagnosed in most populations (with the exception of school-age boys, where it is likely over-diagnosed).

      Wishing you luck. Please take care of yourself. You deserve gentleness and care as you navigate toward a new plan.

    5. EMP*

      If you’re interested in ADHD medication I would get a second opinion from a different doctor. Maybe your therapist can recommend someone?

      The good news is there’s a lot of free advice on the internet around ADHD and work – coping with whats not ideal, what to look for, etc. It’s tough to dig through and you may not find what you need but it’s somewhere to start. Wishing you good luck and a good fit somewhere soon.

    6. Isben Takes Tea*

      If it helps, you’re not alone! I have both experienced this and witnessed it many, many, many times for friends and acquaintances with adult diagnoses of all kinds of neurodivergence: the cycles of existential crisis, anxiety, guilt, grief, and frustration. If it’s available and seems possible, therapy (or at the very least, even a journal) can really help — some place to feel heard as you just talk out all the complicated feelings. ALL those feelings are valid and make sense.

      You can also be both grateful you have a job and want something better. A situation not being toxic or abusive doesn’t mean you “don’t have permission” to not like it. You can be grateful for this place or moment or relationship and still acknowledge it’s not where you belong or want to stay–we’re all journeying through life and aren’t meant to be static. Learning and experimenting and growing into yourself comes in lots of different ways, including what kind of work you thrive at: you’re worth a job you really enjoy!

      If you want a less touchy-feely answer, you can always think back to Alison’s magic question: “What’s the difference between someone who is good at this role and someone who is great?” The reverse is also a magic question: what roles or jobs or tasks are okay for you, and which ones do you really, really enjoy? It’s worth exploring what makes you excel, whether it’s types of projects or management style or schedules or emotional feedback or role on a team or anything.

      If you’ve just had the diagnosis, it can take a while to process! I wish you the best of luck. <3

    7. OyHiOh*

      It’s very very common for ADHD in women to be treated as anxiety and depression. Shockingly common in fact. I would go to someone else for a second (or third!) opinion because it’s remarkable how much anxiety and depression dissipates when you are treating the underlying executive functioning issues.

      Conversely, what I was absolutely convinced was ADHD (and even trialed medication for) was really the reverse – decades of unacknowledged trauma, anxiety, and depression. When I started working on those things, the symptoms that appeared to be ADHD went away.

    8. smeep248*

      I would get a second opinion on the ADHD. I was diagnosed at 40 and struggled for a long time thinking it was *just* my anxiety/ depression. Can we say for sure that a lifetime of being neurodivergent in a neurotypical world hasn’t contributed to your anxiety and depression? It could all be comorbid – is typical anxiety/ depression treatment working? I am just saying there are a lot of ways to approach this.

    9. North Wind*

      You might be fortunate to have a job, but that has nothing in the world at all to do with you trying to find something that really engages you! There’s no reason at all to feel guilty or have any kind of negative feelings about being bored in your job and wanting more.

      Please take every opportunity to explore what might suit you better. I remember years and years ago, there was a lull in the work in my department and I taught myself SQL. I felt like my brain was already singing that tune and the education just taught me the words. I quickly started contributing at a much higher level, got a higher salary and more job opportunities, and could not BELIEVE I was getting paid to sit and solve logic puzzles all day.

      15 years down the line, I was so miserable sitting in front of a computer moving data around all day, I’d sometimes go out to my car and just cry during lunchtime. Nothing was tangibly wrong – I wasn’t overworked or micro-managed, I didn’t have a mean boss, I made my own hours, I had a very decent salary and tons of benefits – but I was absolutely miserable and it wouldn’t go away.

      It took me a few years, but I found my way into freelancing. I do lots of shorter-term projects, which means I start something, finish it, and move on (rather than maintaining some dusty old bureaucratic process for years on end) and constantly meet new people in all different types of businesses/orgs/charities all over the world. Turns out that at this time of my life, I thrive on variety. Wasn’t true for the younger part of my life, and maybe won’t be what I want later in my life, but there’s nothing wrong with either way of being.

      Let yourself be yourself and don’t guilt and stress over it!

      1. NeonDreams*

        You nailed how I feel exactly on the head. Which is why I feel guilty about being bored. Reading your post is super validating! I’m glad to know I’m not alone.

    10. Jean (just Jean)*

      A word of comfort: Thirty-five may seem too old/too late to make any changes, but honestly unless you’re hit by a catastrophe you have approximately the same number of years left to work before retirement. That’s a lot of time in which to learn better practices and apply them. Some of us don’t find out about our ADHD/ADD until we’re well into our fifties. (Long story short: I decided to be grateful for everything that *has* gone well in my life, even though I’m not exactly blazing a trail up the ladder of success.)
      Welcome to the ADHD/ADD community, and good luck to you!

    11. RagingADHD*

      Anxiety and depression are often comorbid with ADHD, and they can cause similar symptoms. So it’s no wonder that your doctor may have trouble parsing out which is which. Sometimes the answer really is “all of the above.”

      If you are already being treated with meds for anxiety, ask your doctor about a med that treats both. There is at least one SNRI that is technically an anxiety med but is also helpful for ADHD. Of course, switching anxiety meds takes longer than trying out a short-acting stimulant, but it’s an avenue that may be available without formal diagnosis.

      I highly, highly recommend the book “Smart but Scattered,” because it has very practical advice for identifying which executive functions are strengths and weaknesses for you, and ways to use your strengths to compensate for your weaknesses.

      There’s a pattern I see very frequently with adults who suspect or get an ADHD dx, where they have an identity crisis and then over-invest in the dx as a new identity.

      I did it myself-hence, username. But in the long run, the identity model isn’t very useful for understanding or coping with the disordered parts of the traits.

      There are things you are good at, and things you are bad at. Some of them are skills you can learn, and some of them are always going to be things you need to solve. None of them have to define what you can accomplish in your life.

    12. Parakeet*

      I got diagnosed last year (combined-type ADHD + autism). I also have depression, social anxiety disorder, and PTSD (the PTSD and depression were diagnosed before last year). I got evaluated by a neuropsychologist and it included a history, a clinical interview, and a full battery of tests. The report that I got at the end was detailed and fascinating. If your previous evaluation wasn’t by a neuropsychologist, and you can get one by a neuropsychologist, it might be worthwhile (insurance covered the vast majority of mine but it can be tricky).

      I’ve had a somewhat rocky professional life but am finally in a job that fits me REALLY well – and while not all of my prior jobs were good fits for me, most built skills that went into the unusual combination of skills that got me the current job. So I don’t feel like it’s been wasted or anything.

      One thing that I gather is true of a lot of ADHDers – and it’s certainly true of me – is that it really matters that I like what I do. I realize that sounds incredibly basic, and probably also incredibly extra, since after all, most people would rather do something they like than something they don’t. But a lot of people do seem to be able to develop enjoyment and satisfaction in types of work that don’t hold much inherent interest for them, and able to perform well. And really, that seems so useful, that flexibility! I just can’t seem to sustain energy and performance over the long term in that kind of circumstance. But give me something I’m really interested in for its own sake and I’ll do very, very well. Perhaps this is true for you as well!

      Of course then the question becomes, how to translate that into work that someone will pay you a reasonable amount of money to do? That was tricky, and is part of why my earlier professional life was rather uneven. But perhaps it’s something the career coach can help with! Different kinds of volunteering over the years were also really useful in helping me find an employable niche that I like enough to do very well in (I’ve been getting so many compliments from people at work this week and it’s been a real confidence-booster).

  23. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

    :( I tested positive for covid earlier this week. I feel pretty crummy and my boss is saying all the right things about “take time off and rest!” but …I started this job less than a month ago and currently have a grand total of 7 hours of sick time. In an ideal world, I would take the next two weeks off and spend the day napping and reading romance novels, but I don’t see how that’s possible. I work remotely and independently so I can probably get away with a lot, but does anyone have ideas for how I can prioritize my health & recovery without getting fired?

    1. Bubbletea*

      If your boss is telling you to take time off and rest, I’d go back to them and explain that you’d love to but you can’t afford to take time unpaid. See what they suggest.

    2. Justin*

      If he’s saying the right things (and that is indeed the right thing to say), he might not know how the hours accrue if he’s just joined, so I’d tell him “well, I might need the next (week, whatever, you don’t really know, it was 4 bad days for me, could be 2 days, 2 weeks…), is there anything you all can work out on my sick hours since I don’t have very many yet?”

    3. PX*

      Yup, as others have said. Speak to your boss. She might say you can take the time you need now and then “earn” it back later (I forget the word for this).

      1. SJ (they/them)*

        Going negative on banked hours, maybe?

        (not that OP should have to because nobody chooses to be sick!)

    4. Yes And*

      1. Some states have laws requiring employers to grant paid sick leave as long as an employee is testing positive for COVID. You may have to share your test results with the company to qualify.
      2. Your employer may agree to advance you sick time, even though you haven’t accrued it yet.
      3. Every person and every case is different, but it’s my anecdotal observation that a lot of people feel better long before they test negative. So since your position is remote, you may be able to safely return to work sooner than you think.

      Get well soon!

    5. What She Said*

      Some places still have covid leave available that doesn’t tap into your sick leave. Ours currently is still in place until the end of this month for example. I’d inquire if it’s still an option in your area.

    6. Irish Teacher*

      I am looking from what is presumably a different culture from yours, but I would hope that a boss “making the right noises” would not fire somebody for getting ill during a pandemic, even if it is early in their time at the company. If you are sick, you are sick. A reasonable person (and your boss sounds like one) should realise that is byond your control and not penalise you for it.

      Are there minimum requirements in your country/state for how much time you must isolate after testing positive for covid?

    7. Cj*

      I truly don’t think you will get fired for it. You may have to take it unpaid, but first ask if you can go in the hole on your sick leave, or if there are special Covid rules in place for these situations.

  24. Melanie Cavill*

    I’ve received a verbal job offer! For a position on the other side of the country!

    … ack. Wish me luck in the hurriedly moving, comrades.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Congrats! Professional movers instead of a uhaul are well worth it! My movers I packed my own boxes, but they loaded my boxes into a bigger box basically that went on a semi that had a little room left, then different movers met me in the new state with the bigger box thing and moved it into the unit. They were great. Helped me build bed frames even. Well worth the cost.

      Ask your new job about moving expenses stipends or reimbursement!

    6. Blarg*

      Don’t bring things with you that cost more to move than replace. Sell stuff (quickly) or give it away. You can order things to be at your new place when you arrive. At least for me, things like dishes always get sold and replaced when I make a big move. Why worry about careful packing, inevitable breakage of some pieces that of course can’t be exactly replaced, etc. when someone else will love the set (perhaps to replace their own broke-in-the-move pieces) and you can get fresh stuff locally.

      Also, and again this depends on your amount of stuff and time and budget, etc. But USPS media mail is the bargain of the century for any printed or recorded materials. The rules are very specific, but it’s by far the cheapest way to ship books, your old CD collection, etc. Take to post office in boxes. See it again at your new address. All for pennies in comparison to other shipping options.

      1. Melanie Cavill*

        I’m not American so anything USPS-related isn’t applicable to me, but the rest of the advice is fantastic! Thank you.

    7. VLookupsAreMyLife*

      We did a Coast-to-Coast 4,000km relocation (USA) in 6 weeks with 2 kids & a dog while school was still in session. It was rough, but not impossible. I cosign what Blarg says… I did a complete cost analysis of what it would cost to move our things vs buy there and we took very little with us (mostly just heirlooms, personally significant items, etc.). Be sure to take your new employer up on ANY support they offer for relocation assistance – it never hurts to ask. And, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

  25. nolongerintern*

    How do you support a manager who seems overwhelmed? I’m 2 hierarchies below him (think like, junior executive? I have a few years of experience in the same role, so above a fresh graduate) and I made it clear that I’m working towards a coordinator role in the next year. What are the boundaries and when do I step in to assist him? Do I ask? I don’t think I want to take over some of his tasks without his comfort… any advice or insight would help.

    1. londonedit*

      Firstly, only offer to help if you have the time/resources available – don’t do anything that would make your own workload unmanageable. But I don’t think there would be any problem in you saying that you know the department is under pressure at the moment and asking whether there are any tasks that you could help with to reduce his workload. Definitely ask, though, don’t just take things over without checking first.

    2. Temperance*

      If he’s your superior in the org chart, I wouldn’t help and would let him fail. You’re just going to make him look good instead of supporting your own goals.

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        “Overwhelmed” could just mean “has a lot on his plate right now” rather than “in a position he can’t handle.” My own manager is currently wearing two hats and dealing with short staffing in one part of the team. That manager is EXTREMELY competent, but very very busy. It could be the same kind of thing for nolongerintern’s manager.

        1. Princess Trachea-Aurelia Belaroth*

          My supervisor is like this right now. Her boss is dumping so much stuff on her with stupid deadlines, and she isn’t able to delegate any of them to me. I do what I can to cover the regular work that I CAN do, so she has time to work on this “extra” (but now absolutely required and time-consuming) work.

          1. nolongerintern*

            Yeah, I try to make myself as easy to manage as possible. I felt bad about being done with work and sending it off to him and looking for other things to do that’s within my current task. He’s very competent and good at his job but he’s being run down. Thanks for the advice.

    3. Alternative Person*

      It’s difficult because it’s very context dependent, but I’ve been supporting a higher level manager in a similar situation and here’s some things I did:

      1. Take care of as much of your workload as possible in good time. I was able to step into a situation recently because I got my all my work done ahead of a deadline (I do this anyways for personal organizational reasons, but it really made a difference when things got off track that day).

      2. Be observant of what’s going on, where things are and where you can help- this is very company specific, but would say, tidying up the widget corner or the files save trouble down the road? Would knowing where the extra staples are save your manager going and getting them? Being able to step in for stuff like that can really help out.

      3. (If you don’t already) Make a proper effort with your colleagues and other staff. I found after regularly taking the extra five minutes to chat to them that some people would come to me first for minor things (like fixing the printer, finding a widget) and I could sort it without it ever needing the higher manager. Goes well with number 2 on this list.

      4. Think to the future (again very company specific). What’s likely to come up in 3-5 months or whatever the timelines in your company are and (after making sure you definitely have the time and knowledge needed) ask your manager if you could work on it, or at least some preliminary stuff. My higher manager let me handle a lot of prep work on a big project as well as take on expanded role in the delivery because I offered to take care of some of the planning well ahead of time.

      Doing these kinds of things worked out for me, I’m getting temporarily seconded to the role I’m aiming for and its been indicated to me that I’ll be a top contender once there’s a full time opening in that role, but that could be a ways off given my company.

      I do want to caution you though that doing these kinds of things might not get you the promotion you want. When I took this on for my higher manager, I made sure to remind myself (and concerned others) that I was doing it as much for experience for my CV as I was for the promotion I want and to help out. And still, if I don’t get a promotion, I’ll be looking to leave in the next year-eighteen months.

  26. My+Useless+2+Cents*

    tldr: Should I resume working on project at work after I was already taken off it before?
    For reading ease: Project would be the equivalent of reorganizing all the closets for the company when I am only the cook. I’ve already reorganized the pantry and it is the only place in the company where you can find what you are looking without serious effort.

    So right before the pandemic, management majorly upset me to the point that I was seriously looking for a new job (pandemic put a pin in that and I’ve just casually looked since). The last straw was being taken off this project I really enjoyed so that owners pet manager could take over. That particular manager found out it was more difficult than they expected, did nothing with the project, and left the company a few months later and the project has languished ever since. Now management is making noise about me picking up project again.

    Ever since they took me off the project, I guess you could say, I’ve been quietly quitting and I really have no desire to go above and beyond for this company again. Again, this wasn’t the first time the company upset me, it was the final straw. On the other hand, I really enjoy working on this project and find the different tasks it entails mentally stimulating which my current job does not do. Should I agree to take on this project again?

    1. Super Duper Anon*

      I would take it on simply because you enjoy it. You obviously don’t love this company, so it would be nice to have something you enjoy doing at work while you look for other jobs.

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        Not only that, but if OP picks it back up, enjoys it and nails it because of that interest, then OP can add the project as a line item to her resume. Who knows – that project could end up being the thing that gets OP a new position someplace else.

    2. Temperance*

      I honestly wouldn’t pick it up unless they specifically ask instead of just heavily hint and give you a reason why they kicked you off to replace you with Pet.

      My reasoning: the pet probably messed it up significantly, and you frankly don’t need to take the blame for their, and the manager’s, failure. You don’t need the narrative to be “Pet tried really hard, but My+Useless made such a mess that Pet couldn’t hack it” or something similar.

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      Work on it because you enjoy it and because it might be a good resume builder for YOU. In other words, don’t hold back on something that is good for you just to spite THEM.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Especially if it will look good on your resume since you are job hunting, even if casually.

        Bonus points if you can negotiate some kind of bonus or temporary pay raise (FWIW I have had managers in the past who’ve done cash bonuses when I went above/beyond, but I recognize it’s probably not common.)

    4. Sparqness*

      Some questions: Is it in your job description? Is it in another role’s job description? If it is in another role’s job description, is that role paid more? You said you are working to rule (the actual name for quiet quitting, which is new phrasing some employers are using to victim-blame people who are standing up for themselves at work), so the answers to these questions are important. If it is not in your job description but is in another role’s and that role is paid more, then I would only take it on if you get paid that rate for the hours you work on the project, or if you get seconded into that role for the time period of the project with the pay and benefits of that role.

      If the role is actually paid less than you are right now, I wouldn’t touch it at all.

    5. linger*

      Much depends on how much we can accurately infer from your analogy.
      If your role as “cook” implies you have a specialized skillset which would be the main basis for your job-hunting, and the “reorganizing closets” task is less skilled, or less remunerated (at least partly because it isn’t out in the open, and doesn’t have a fixed deadline, so is not as clearly seen to be immediately necessary) … then taking on the task isn’t in your best interests for job-hunting purposes, unless you can negotiate some temporary reduction in your other (less-preferred) duties (N.B. ensuring you keep enough free time for job-hunting). But if the “reorganizing” task is something that would add marketable skills to your resume relevant to the jobs that you want to apply for, there’s a stronger argument for taking it on.

  27. Voodoo Priestess*

    I posted last week about a potential opportunity to move into leadership/management from a technical contributor role. Well, I contacted a mentor to talk through the offer and she then offered me a similar role at her large, international company. It would be a Deputy Department manager of a large department vs Director of a small group. I was still unsure about both options and contacted a peer who recently went back to grad school. He said his former bosses had talked about wanting to hire me (we sit on a committee together) so I reached out and we’re now in talks as well. When it rains, it pours!

    I’m seriously excited and think I know what direction I want to go it. This site has been so helpful in framing conversations and having open and honest feedback and setting expectations. Or even just asking questions to really see what options are out there. I can’t wait to see what happens!

  28. They Have It Coming*

    How do you prepare for a strike?

    It is looking more and more likely that my union is going on strike in October. I’ve never been through a strike and am looking for advice on what to do in advance. I’m in higher education IT and trying to thread the needle between minimizing disruptions for the students and maximizing pain for the administration so any strike ends quickly.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Save money if you can in advance. Make sure you stock up on nonperishable food too if you’re living close to paycheck to paycheck.

      Talk to your union leaders about what should be done with students in terms of support or no work at all during the strike. Also ask leadership if its okay to mention potential strike to students (like warning them to get your help ASAP before teh strike).

    2. cardigarden*

      Save some money; ask your union leaders about a strike fund. Also, you might find that the students will be on the picket line with you. Students at American University staged a walkout last month to support a staff strike, and that really helped the union’s negotiating position.

    3. danmei kid*

      Child of a CWA worker here who weathered our share of strikes:
      -Cut out discretionary spending as far in advance as you can & put away what you can, if you don’t already have a savings account that can cover the stoppage
      -Check in with your community food bank – you may qualify for assistance due to the stoppage or within a certain time of stoppage
      -Check in with your Union reps what they advise as far as other community services you might qualify for besides the food bank. Sometimes there are programs for utilities assistance, for example.
      -Talk to any creditors with payments you CANNOT MISS i.e. mortgage, car, cable, phone, etc. Explain the situation and ask if there are any deferments policies for situations like this, like you can reduce your payments for a couple of months or switch to a different type of payment plan and make up the difference later (unless, like my parents, you always have paid up a couple of months ahead, which they always did for just this reason)

  29. Wendy*

    I am responding to comments made to the Friday open thread post I made last week regarding hours being cut at the *major grocery store chain* fuel center I work at as a fuel center associate

    Turns out according to company policy no employee is allowed to work a 3 hour shift even though I was scheduled to work 3 hours on Monday of this week

    I was told my 2 supervisors, and one was the fuel center lead, to work an 8 hour shift

    Turns out the fuel center did not go over the scheduled number of hours it is given on a weekly basis

    This information was e-mailed to all the fuel center employees at the location I work at

    According to the e-mail the fuel center used less total hours than what was allocated

    The e-mail also included the departments that went over their total allocated hours

    According to an e-mail sent by the HR Assistant Manager who works at the grocery store, every department must follow the total number of allocated hours given to them

    Many department responsibilities are not being done according to the hand held device I use to replenish products that are sold at the fuel center when I am the opener

    But there is not much these departments can do

    I worked the mid shift yesterday

    The closer called work to let them know he would not be at work due to a work related accident at his other job

    I was told to work my 8 hour shift and clock out at 7 p.m.

    The fuel center closes at 10 p.m. 7 days a week, but there was no closer since I was not allowed to stay past my 8 hour shift

    I closed the window, locked up everything outside and kept the fuel pumps on

    1. ThatGirl*

      Have you considered looking for another job? I’m guessing you wouldn’t have much trouble finding one, unless this is the only grocery store or gas station in town.

        1. ThatGirl*

          If you’re the person I think you are, it sounds like this job has caused you a lot of problems and headaches. The thing about service jobs like that is there are a lot of them — I would definitely encourage you to find a new one.

  30. just another queer reader*

    Are there companies out there that are really, truly, seriously putting DEI as a priority? If so, where can I find them? What industries?

    I recently read a Lily Zheng post about “how to find a company that is *actually* doing DEI in a meaningful way” and I was like “this sounds amazing but are any orgs actually doing this???”

    (Rant for background: I work at a large manufacturing company that says they care about DEI but isn’t putting resources or action into making any real changes, beyond hiring a few more people of color. This is particularly frustrating because I’m involved in ERG leadership and they’re not setting me and my team up for success. I’d love to do this work in a place where my efforts will actually get somewhere.)

    2. Justin*

      Wrote a whole dissertation about this. Peoples’ mileage may vary on this but I am deeply skeptical of places that did nothing on it and then suddenly cared in 2020. Places like that are going to lose energy on these things real fast if they haven’t already.

      I would look at what orgs have written about their efforts, WHEN those efforts started, and if they have any concrete proof of the impact. And most importantly, look at who’s in charge. If the same demographics (you know the ones) are making all the decisions, then power has not been shifted, and ultimately it’s about that more than just being nice to people.

      My org walks the walk, but the leadership is all POC and the work is directly related to shifting power in society.

      1. Justin*

        (I’m well aware there’s more to DEI than race, but I’ve dealt with racism at places with male or female leadership, so.)

    3. Educator*

      I’ve had the best luck at mission-driven organizations where DEI is literally written into the mission itself. When I am interviewing, I try to follow the funding. If my salary will be paid by donors or grants with a DEI focus, there is much more genuine accountability. Who is on the board also matters–if a board has diverse voices, I’ve found that they can be much more influential than a hastily hired DEI director. When I have interviewed with organizations like this, THEY are the ones to bring inclusivity up in interviews, or even in application screening questions, and I know I have found a fit.

      1. Justin*

        Yes, the board (or top execs, etc) needs to be committed and actively pursuing this. If I have to push them to talk about it, it won’t end up the way I want.

    4. JCI employee*

      I’m at Johnson Controls and they seem to be doing it at a high level. From what I heard, it can really depend on the team. I’m on a good team that makes it a priority. We also have Business Resource Groups that are supported by the company and working on them counts towards your job-performance. My coworker and I just started a chapter of the Women’s BRG and we’ve had great support and success!
      There’s a DEI office with an AMAZING leader that does not hold back. From what I’ve seen, I’ve been happy with their efforts so far.
      But again, my specific team is really people-focused and may be one of the better ones.

    5. LimeRoos*

      I’m in non-profit health insurance, and our company is focusing hugely on DEI. We’ve pivoted to whatever roles can wfh have that option, which has expanded our hiring pool in a lot of low income areas we weren’t in before (since before covid everyone was in office at least 2 days a week). That also allows us to hire from every state we have a footprint in, which is pretty awesome, and directly supports our members and their communities. We have multiple ERG’s that are pretty active (Latin/Hispanic, Asian, Black, Military, Women, LGBTQIA+, classes/panels/presentations on diversity, inclusion, privilege, etc throughout the year, our executive leadership focuses on it as well and isn’t afraid to address the hard discussions and questions. We have speakers from other local non-profits come in as well. We opened another office in a low income area and try and hire within 1-2 miles of the office to keep the jobs in the neighborhood (this was specifically in response to George Floyd, because the predominately white male leadership team realized they need to do more and can do more because of the privileges they have). At that point we also created a DEI leadership position (SVP or C-Suite, I don’t remember), and have a few different DEI leaders in different areas (HR etc). The ERG’s also put on events that are shared with the company – anything from booths at community fests and fairs, to cooking classes, panels/discussions, and a gorgeous African and black culture fashion show (multiple African countries were represented as well as American streetwear, it was really cool). What’s also awesome is a lot of upper level VP’s are involved in and co-sponsor the ERG’s, so they already have solid backing from the top with executives that understand the issues because they’ve faced them as well. And a lot of people put their pronouns in their e-mail signatures. Some of the execs include a link to ‘why this matters’ which explains why it’s important. It’s also totally optional – I’d say maybe half the company does include them. This is just from what I’ve remembered over the last two years, but I’m sure there is a lot more that I’m forgetting. Honestly I love working here, and see a ton of people who feel the same.

      Oh! One more thing I remembered/looked up – I remember when I started that there were mostly white dudes in the C-Suite, but now while it’s still basically white it’s half women. And that’s just in 3 years. So not perfect, but it does flow downwards that now there are a large number of women and minorities in SVP & VP roles 2 and 3 levels down from CEO. So while we have things to work on, we’ve come a long way in a short time.

      2. Educator*

        That’s all great, but it does not negate the fact that health insurance companies actively create significant systemic inequality in this country by lobbying against more equitable methods of allowing people to access and pay for health care and ensuring that prices stay high. No internal diversity effort could ever balance out that harm.

          1. Educator*

            That is absolutely true, but some industries actively perpetuate systemic harm more than others. It’s like if we were talking about environmentalism and someone from a coal company wrote in to talk about the great new recycling bins they just got for their office–great, but really out of touch with what we actually need from their company to deal with the issue at hand.

            DEI work–real DEI work–is about making hard, systemic changes to how our society operates. It is woefully inadequate to do some hiring from low income areas when your industry is systematically pushing millions of people into debt, and that problem disproportionally impacts low-income families. It is woefully inadequate to have pronouns in your signature when covered gender-affirming care is often so limited. It is woefully inadequate to have some women in the c-suite when the painfully high maternal mortality rate in this country has been partially tied to how insurance companies rush women out of the hospital after they give birth. It is woefully inadequate to have some talks about privilege when people in this country are literally dying because they cannot afford their high deductibles.

            It just feels wrong not to note the much, much bigger harms in this case.

            1. Educator*

              Also should note–LimeRoos, I know that none of this is your personal fault and don’t want it to come off that way. It is great to share some of these efforts. You are not responsible personally for generations of systemic inequality–we all are.

          2. LimeRoos*

            Thanks Hiring Mgr! Because of course you’re right, and I know how the insurance/medical industry is broken in America. (Also I love your satire!)

            I had a large response written out for you Educator, but I don’t even have the energy. None of your comparisons are valid, you have no idea what we’re doing to combat any of that, and frankly, that was super rude on a thread about companies actually following through on their DEI promises – which we are and expanding them. You honestly believe that opening a whole new office compares to getting recycling bins? Providing job desert areas with more jobs doesn’t help combat poverty? Considering most of these initiatives are what people here have said they’d appreciate and want at their companies, I’m really surprised at the vitriol of your response to Hiring Mgr. We can’t change the whole system, but we’re doing what we can and I posted a small picture of it – but I guess that’s woefully inadequate for a small regional non-profit. It’s great you acknowledged it’s not technically my fault, but you’re still talking to someone who is only a cog in the machine and you know that. So thanks for making me cry after work Friday, great way to kick off the weekend. I’m bowing out, because it’s time for pupper cuddles and dinner.

            Oh, we also cover gender affirming care.

    6. Sloanicota*

      My org is the opposite. They talk about DEIJ all the time but they just interviewed 7 white candidates for an open role, zero people of color (mostly women because we’re a small nonprofit that doesn’t pay great). I’m pretty low level so I haven’t really figured out how to push back besides perhaps asking where we’re posting our jobs and seeing if I can suggest any places with a more diverse reach.

      1. Anonforthis*

        Oh, I see we have similar experiences… with the “do as I say, not as I do” approach to DEI. We talk a LOT at my org about DEI… and do absolutely nothing about our C-level team. To the best of my knowledge (meaning how they present/self-identify), every single one is a 40-60 year old straight, white, cis-dude from a prestigious university and/or a specific industry partner. We’ve had 3 new hires on that team in the past 2 years, so definitley some opportunities to make some changes if they really wanted to.

  31. Anon for This*

    My boss keeps checking in that I’m happy because I think that she’s afraid that I want to quit, but truthfully, I am very unhappy and am actively job searching. I’m at the point where I’m going to quit with nothing lined up as of 12/31 if I don’t find something before then.

    She knows I’m upset about the fact that our org took on a new initiative and didn’t involve me, but what she doesn’t know is exactly -how- angry and upset I am about it. The person who they did hire is very, very junior to me, but is doing higher profile work and getting more attention. They’re a 2022 college grad and are already featured in press releases and org-wide communications. I’ve only been featured in these when I do something big like win awards, and I haven’t received credit for small projects like this person has.

    So, what do I do? Am I obligated to be honest, or should i keep my head down, do my job, and keep actively planning my exit?

    1. NotBatman*

      Your boss is reminding me of the friend who — after doing something crappy — goes “you’re not mad at me, right? Just tell me you’re not mad at me. Promise you’re not mad.” Because they’re not really sorry, just terrified of facing consequences for their actions. And from everything you describe, you owe this person nothing. They can’t handle the truth.

      1. Ama*

        Yes she totally knows how that went down probably pissed you off and she’s looking for reassurance. You do not have to be responsible for her feelings.

        I do think Ann Ominous below is correct that you don’t have to tell her you are looking but you can say that it feels like people working on this initiative are getting a lot more public recognition than people doing other work at the org and that was part of your concern when you weren’t put on the initiative in the first place, that your contributions elsewhere would be ignored.

      2. Dust Bunny*

        All of this.

        Your boss knows this job/place sucks and is hoping to avoid losing you but without doing anything to make it better (maybe she can’t, but she should be more honest about that).

        You don’t owe them anything. It’s a job. Find a new one and get out.

        1. The Real Fran Fine*

          You don’t owe them anything. It’s a job. Find a new one and get out.

          This bears repeating.

    2. Ann Ominous*

      I would try a middle approach. I wouldn’t say I’m leaving because of the things that employers do when they have this much of a heads up.

      However, I would talk to her directly about your concerns if you haven’t already. First I would try to get a handle on your intense anger as that’s not going to result in anything that you actually want. Do some r/internalfamilysystems parts dialogue or some other tools to truly hear and address your own anger before you engage with her, because it will color your whole discussion if you don’t.

      Have you asked her about the disparity between tenure and recognition, and what you can do to achieve what you want?

      1. Anon for This*

        I have raised the issue that I was feeling very unappreciated and frankly angry about the fact that we took on this whole new initiative and I was fully left out of it. And to her credit, she’s trying to include me in the initiative because I have good ideas for it and would have done an excellent job running this project. New Hire is too junior to run initiatives and requires a ton of hand holding, which I’m not doing.

        The stuff with the recognition is new. It honestly happened twice this week and I haven’t had a chance to bring it up because my boss is traveling for work.

        1. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

          I know it’s hard but try to restrain your anger.
          Personally, I would NOT bring up the recognition stuff for new hire and how it makes you feel because it may look a little petty. Your previous acknowledgment of feeling unappreciated is enough.

          Keep job hunting.
          And yes, they’re worried you’re gonna leave. Get the better revenge by keeping quiet and getting a better job.

    3. Stoppin' by to chat*

      You are under no obligation to do anything. However, if you are planning to quit in a few months regardless, you may as well let them know that you were concerned/frustrated/etc to not be on that project, and are open to similar opportunities. Also, is it possible the company is highlighting this new graduate’s achievements for un-related reasons. Not that it’s okay, but to maybe realize that this wasn’t a reflection on you. But also, if you’re unhappy, then it’s also okay to keep your head down and leave whenever you want to!

  32. bluestainedglass*

    I started a new role at my company less than three months ago…and I hate it. I’m looking to leave the company now but struggling to figure out how best to put it on my resume/talk about it in my cover letter.

    The new role is, in some ways, a promotion – no interview, just a conversation with my now-boss, and they only posted the job internally so I was the only applicant. But it’s a different department than I was in before. This is my third role, and third department, with the company over 10 years.

    Do I list just my job titles (not the departments) on my resume so it looks more cohesive? Do I mention in my cover letter why I’m looking to leave so soon (phrased in a benign way)?

    1. Ama*

      I think since this was an internal transfer you don’t really have to phrase it in the cover letter as leaving a position after three months, it can be more looking for a change after 10 years at the same company. If you get an interview you can be more detailed about having moved into a role you weren’t a good fit for and realized you needed a fresh start elsewhere or something along those lines.

  33. Moi*

    Got a job I was really excited about. Manager gives effusive praise but seems to always add constructive criticism into mine (think, yes thank you for pointing out that it’s partially cloudy today, but also remember that the sky is blue). I offer to take part in projects but she always has a reason why I can’t (I’m cognizant off the fact that you’re part time, so I don’t think this is the right one for you) and then offers it to coworkers who are also part time. I’m not sure if I can last in this role but I love the organization! How long do I have to be here before applying for a transfer?

    1. Moi*

      FWIW, I don’t think it’s my work product, as I’m doing less challenging work than in my previous role where I did well AND she hasn’t given me much to either prove or disprove myself. My colleagues complain about being overworked while I am bored(and yes I’ve asked for more work). I came with great references from senior leaders. Turnover in my department is high

    2. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

      Have you asked your boss what is going on with the work assignments? Does your boss realize that you have the bandwidth you actually do? I would suggest sitting down with your boss to talk about your workload and the capacity you have to take more on. If your boss still continues to assign work the same way after that, I think that’s a sign that something weird is going on, and you may want to think about looking to leave sooner rather than later.

      1. Moi*

        Oh I’ve very much had that conversation. She thanked me for telling her that I have capacity and she’d send more work my way. This hasn’t happened. She also mentions how she is aware that we are a dedicated team because people are still working late in the evening and coming in on weekends. I think I need to leave. But since I want to stay in this organization, I’d like to know how quickly I can leave without it reflecting badly on me.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      How long have you been there? My answer would be different for 3 months, 6 months, and a year. Some companies won’t let you transfer until you’ve been there a year– do you know your company’s policy.

      FWIW, I know exactly that “sky is blue” thing and I hate it. It’s infantilizing, to be honest. Yes, of course I am aware that the sky is blue, but I wouldn’t have called the clouds to your attention if I didn’t think they warranted your attention.

      1. Moi*

        I’ve been at the organization for decades. This spot, months. It’s honestly really sad because the way this role was described in the ad was EXACTLY what I am looking for but the reality of the day to day work is quite different. (Think posting for senior teapot designer who then spends their time ordering tea leaves). I was told the work would be some tea leave ordering and I’d be involved in cool innovative teapot designs. I do lots of tea leaf ordering and my boss keeps putting off design work. Due to of course, capacity. (One time she said I had a great idea but it needed someone with the drive and capacity to do it. I pointed out that I do. Then she said no”.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          If you’ve been an employee in good standing for decades, a short stint at one role shouldn’t be a problem. Go ahead and ask for a transfer, with the caveat that if you’ve done short stints at multiple roles, it won’t look that great.

        2. Loredena*

          If you’ve been with the organization that long you likely can start looking now. That duration helps offset the time in department

  34. Qwertyuiop*

    I sit with across from a manager who is not my manager, but manager in my department. I’ve noticed that if I leave my desk and then come back after 5-10 minutes, this manager will clear her throat. Another time, I was gone longer for lunch but my boss knew and was fine with it. When I came back, the manager was clearing her throat.

    She seems irritated or annoyed, but she doesn’t manage me so I don’t know why it’s her concern or business. She also micromanages a lot. It’s ironic because she’ll be gone at lunch for 2 hours yet no one knows where she goes. When she does the throat clearing thing, I’m tempted to ask if she wants a throat lozenge….

    It’s irritating, but how do I deal with this in a professional way? Any advice is appreciated.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Offer the lozenge! Kill with Kindness. ” Hi I’m Qwertyuiop – part of (your manager’s name)’s group. I noticed your throat seems to be painful I’ve got these great lozenges would you like some??” . Make her have to stop being passive aggressive.

      Or just silently ignore her.

    2. Educator*

      Leaving your desk for ten minutes and taking a longer lunch periodically are such normal things that I would try to reframe her behavior in your mind as solidly not about you. Maybe she is clearing her throat so she is ready to respond if you say hi! Maybe she has a naturally unpleasant facial expression or is frustrated with her project or realized she forgot to take the trash cans to the curb before she left the house that morning, or…

      I have wasted so much time assuming people were mad at me when they were not. These days, I try to assume that if someone has a problem with me, they will tell me with words, so I don’t need to waste time analyzing their behavior.

      Now, if her micromanaging is ever directed at you, I would immediately talk to your boss about it. But looks and body sounds can definitely be ignored.

      1. Ringo’s mom*

        “I try to assume…they will tell me with their words.”

        Oh my goodness. I so needed to read this today. I am always wrapped up in knots assuming a certain person is angry/disappointed in me. Your comment was a refreshing reset for me. Thank you!

    3. I'm just here for the cats*

      I’d say try to ignore it, and maybe offer a lozenged.

      If it does bother you or gets worse maybe talk to your boss. Say Julie seems irritated when I’m away from my desk for more than a few minutes or when I take a longer lunch that has been approved. Is there something going on that I’m not aware of?
      Are there people that she manages that you could talk to get insight?

    4. RagingADHD*

      The professional way to deal with it is to remember that her postnasal drip is not your problem. I guarantee you are thinking a whole lot more about this than she is.

  35. Oh no, oh no*

    So, I wasn’t really looking to leave my current place, but a former coworker recommended me for an open position at her current place. It’s basically what I do now but with a little more freedom and some nice bonus. I interviewed twice and was offered the job and I had to turn it down. There was a handful of reasons, distance from my home was a big one, some of the ideas the management had about my position didn’t resonate with me, and the coworker who recommended it did confine in me that the big boss I’d be under was not a really good one and she didn’t really care for her.

    After I declined, they came back and offered me… I hate saying it, but $10,000 more than what I make now. I panicked, of course, but after talking to my husband some more… I had to turn it down. I’m going to try and use it for leverage at my current job but I don’t think they’d be able to match the dollar amount at all.

    But man… I had to think so hard about this but my general happiness in my job is… more important than money, right? And the distance was a killer, my commute would be almost an hour and a half both ways, and that’s if traffic is okay. I don’t think I could deal with that kind of commute every single day. I’ve just never turned down a job offer before and I felt terrible doing it too, after wasting all of their time and such.

    1. Temperance*

      Honestly, it depends. For some people, $10k/year would make their lives much, much better. For some people, it’s a drop in the bucket. You decide what your needs and priorities are.

      You didn’t waste their time any more than they wasted the time of any candidate who didn’t get an offer. Think about that!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Seconding what Temperance said about time wasting. Interviewing is a two-way street. The company decides if the candidate is a good fit for the open job and the candidate decides if the open job at the company is a good fit for them. Better for you to decline their offer now, then to accept and quit in six months when you are burned out over a terrible commute and then they will have to start the hiring process all over again.

      It sounds to me like you made the right decision. Accepting a job should never be just about the money (or just about the boss, the project, the commute, etc.). You need to evaluate the whole package. Is this much more money worth this much more commuting time? Is working for a boss I like less than my current boss worth working on projects I like more than my current projects? It all matters, and a candidate should evaluate all parts of a job offer.

    3. AdequateArchaeologist*

      It is totally ok to say that $10k isn’t worth the commute and other factors that you would trade off. (Also, with gas prices still high in many parts of the country, how much of that $$ would you actually pocket and not just use on the trip to/from work?). I’m in a similar situation now with my job. I’m making about $10k more than my last position, but I’m not sure deal with my supervisor is and other factors is worth the extra money some days. It’s easy to feel like you should always want/take more money no matter what, but your general happiness matters too!

    4. SJ (they/them)*

      Commutes are BRUTAL. It sounds like you trusted your gut! I believe you made the right call.

      Don’t feel bad about wasting their time – the whole purpose of an interview process is to figure out if it’s a good fit on both sides. You did nothing wrong!

      1. Weaponized Pumpkin*

        I do not know how much money it would take to compensate for 3+ hours a day, but it’s a whole bunch more than 10K. I hate commuting.

        1. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

          I found a commuting calculator the other day, one that factors in both the mileage and gave a formula for time (I think it was hourly rate * hours commuting). I calculated my commute is $170/day. This commute sounds worse than mine. $10k doesn’t come close.

        2. linger*

          Back-of-envelope calculation, assuming 5 weekdays/week @ 3h round trip: the commute time would effectively be paid at $12.82/h. Yeah, nah.
          Admittedly, the math will work out better if you look just at the excess over your existing commute time.

          1. No smart name ideas*

            And—if you are in the US and have taxes taken out—your 10k is 6600…over 12 mos that’s 550, but over a 20 day work month is only 27.50 dollars a day or 3.92 an hour.

            1. No smart name ideas*

              Hit submit too soon! Meant to add that like JPH suggested you should come up with a number that would make such a looong commute worthwhile. Then add 30% to it for taxes.

    5. EMP*

      you weren’t wasting their time, you were spending *YOUR* time considering their offer! Sounds like turning the job down was the right thing for your overall quality of life and that matters a lot.

      1. NotRealAnonforThis*

        I just ran math specific to my location/assumptions based on commute locally/my own vehicle and after taxes, I would not have enough after the commute to make up for losing 3 hours a DAY commuting. I’m already crabby enough about my currently construction obstructed commute which is now about a 1/2 hour in the morning and an hour in the evening (in a city with laughable public transit, in that I’m laughing because there is none to speak of). I’d be purchasing double the fuel with that commute, and that would massively cut into the after-tax in pocket per week.

    7. The New Wanderer*

      You didn’t waste their time or yours. It sounded like it could be a good role, but then you learned more about it and decided it wasn’t right for you. Even when they offered you more money, you still ultimately didn’t think the tradeoff was worth it. It sounds like you made the right call!

    8. MacGillicuddy*

      Three and a half hours of commuting would be a deal breaker for me, regardless of the money. And if you’re working conventional business hours, there’s always traffic issues.

      At 3 1/2 hour a day means 7 hours every 2 days. That means in two weeks it is an extra 35 hours. Over a year (even taking generous vacation and holidays into account, so say 46 weeks of work – which is 23 two-week stints, 35 extra hours per stint = 805 hours commuting time.

      805 hours is 20 “work weeks” worth of commuting. Does the extra $10,000 make it worth it.

      1. Mac (I Wish All The Floors Were Lava)*

        Yeah, I’m just gonna say that for me the final calculation of $10,000 ÷ 800 hrs works out to being paid just over $12/hr for that commuting time. If you need the extra 10k that bad, you could pick up a barista shift at your local coffee shop down the block for probably the same hourly wage, plus all the free leftover croissants at the end of the day that you could possibly eat.

  36. Dino*

    What do you do when you realize your company’s performance metrics will be almost impossible to reach due to your disabilities? I have multiple disabilities but only have FMLA for two of them. I can get within 1.5% of the minimum standard without making myself sicker, but anything more than that has a cascading effect on my health situation. Which means I have to call out, which means getting in trouble. I can’t drop my hours to below full-time because I need the health insurance.

    I don’t have a manager right now. The company is a national one so the next level of management is taking care of routine PTO and whatnot, but there’s no one I can really talk to about this. I’m really damn good at my job, but my work is not visible to anyone in the organization due to confidentiality regulations. All my company cares about is the numbers.

    What would you do?

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      Ugh. I don’t actually know what to do, but I’d like to tell you it’s ok to do the best thing for your health

    2. I'm just here for the cats*

      Could you talk to HR? They would have the information about your FMLA. And maybe they can make exceptions and/or get more accommodations for the other disabilities?

      It sounds like a crappy place. I hate those type of metrics.

    3. danmei kid*

      You said you have FMLA, but have you talked to HR about any necessary disability accommodations? Maybe projecting targets within that 1.5% is something they can flex on for you as an accommodation. You never know until you ask.

    4. learnedthehardway*

      If you can quantify it that much, tell management / HR that it relates to the disabilities for which you DO have FMLA. I mean, they’re not doctors, so they really can’t say that it doesn’t. And who knows, maybe if you didn’t have those documented issues, you might be able to achieve the expected performance metrics simply because you’d have less weighing you down, kwim?

  37. PassThePeasPlease*

    Some good news! After waiting about 5 months after my performance review and my company hemming and hawing about merit raises, I was able to use a counter offer to get not only a raise but also a promotion! Both were already in the works but me having an outside offer considerably moved up the timing. I read AMM past columns extensively about taking a counter offer from your current company (and the advice that it’s generally a bad idea to do it) and I think in my circumstance it worked out well for 2 reasons:

    1) Genuinely the only reason I looked elsewhere (very passively) was that I was unhappy a how slow my current company was being to adjust compensation. I like the work and my colleagues immensely.

    2) I work in a relatively stable sector/company structure and knew that if I took the counter and down the line there was some type of layoff, I’d be able to either transfer internally or, if I was laid off, be able to find something else pretty quickly as a result of my specialty being one of the newer ones with not a lot of talent at the moment. I know that needing a counter could put you on top of the layoff list and seen as disloyal but overall, I was able to communicate that it wasn’t job or company related and truly just about the money.

    All that to say I’m very happy and will be continuing the next 2 weeks till the promotion takes effect kind of amazed that I was able to pull this off! It took a lot of behind the scenes advocacy and follow ups from my boss, their boss and the director of my department and the fact that they were all willing to go to bat for me feels great and makes me feel very appreciated!

    1. Almost Academic*

      Congratulations! I would love to hear more about how you approached this conversation. I’m likely to be in the same position soon (head-hunted by a rival company, likely to get an offer making much more money, but love my current job and would like to stay in the position just with a salary closer to my market value) and I’m nervous about how to approach the conversation with my manager. Congrats on your successful navigation and outcome!

      1. PassThePeasPlease*

        Of course! My workplace is pretty casual (and still mostly remote) so I just reached out to my manager for a conversation over Zoom to let her know that I had another offer on the table but reiterated that I really enjoyed my job and the team and that the main draw of the new job was the increased compensation. This was met with understanding from my boss who has also been frustrated with how much red tape/how slow moving the company has been to give anyone on the team raises.

        It was also a conversation (about compensation) that had been happening for a few months so I would definitely try to give a heads up that you are looking for a salary adjustment beforehand if you can.

        Best of luck and hope it all works out!

  38. hopeful ex librarian*

    what do y’all bring for work snacks?

    i have an office job now, and i don’t know what to bring for snacks. i’d like something that’s filling and that i can keep in a desk drawer (along the lines of granola bars).

      3. Blarg*

        I’ve had two of you as office mates in the past.

        I’m so glad to be remote now.

        Smell of peanut butter is worse than tuna fish out of the microwave, in my book.

        1. M&M Mom*

          So you’re saying that you would be ok with the packets of tuna that I snack on at the office? I don’t microwave it tho. :)

    2. hi hello*

      Trader Joe’s trail mix! I like the Simply the Best Trek Mix (it has that super sweet dried pineapple!). I also like to get one of those boxes of mini bags of goldfish/popcorn/chips from Costco and have a stash of bags in a drawer. Right now, I have the Pirate’s Booty popcorn and it’s been good for curing mid-afternoon snackiness.

      1. Elle*

        I second trail mix. It’s filling, healthy and has that salty sweet thing going for it. I’ll sometimes pair it with a cheese stick or fruit if I’m feeling fancy.

    3. seepy witt*

      My snack drawer currently has:

      -tuna packs
      -microwaveable rice bowls
      -granola bars
      -apples
      -popcorn (should note at this point that I have my own office so the stinkiness is no one’s concern but my own)
      -shelf stable protein shakes

    4. Susan Calvin*

      I am an absolute fiend for dried mango – and tuc crackers for migraine days (are those a thing internationally? think Ritz crackers, but saltier)

    10. Jaydee*

      It’s kind of pricey, but Catalina Crunch makes a good “keto friendly” cereal. I’m not doing keto or anything but have been told to watch my carb intake, so I tried this. It’s tasty, crunchy, and quite filling (lower carbs + more fiber and protein than regular cereals). I mix it with some peanuts and raisins for a DIY trail mix, and a bag lasts a week or more.

    11. Rick Tq*

      I focus on protein and fat content for my snacks, minimal carbs or sugars, so:
      Beef and Pork Jerky
      Protein bars of assorted flavors
      Keto-style snacks

      Mostly from Costco..

  39. LaDiDa*

    I started a new remote job this week. I will be attending a large conference soon and meeting all of my colleagues/clients/public in person. Yesterday, we were talking about the conference. I let them know I am an introvert and I haven’t attended anything with more than 10 people since before the pandemic began. I told them I might need to sneak off for a few minutes at an appropriate time to re-energize. They told me there are a lot of them like this and to alert everyone they send a kola emoji text so everyone knows everything is fine and they just need a bit of downtime.

    I thought this was wonderful that they have this code and are so aware of what others may need at such a large event where you are “on” for 10+ hours a day.

    1. Reba*

      this is great! Love it when people are self-aware and supportive. I hope you get a lot out of the conference.

  40. Mimmy*

    Just had something odd happen with a job for I’d recently interviewed and wanted to get your take. It’s probably fairly common. Here’s the timeline of events:

    – Interviewed at a mid-sized university for a specialist position around the second week of August. Interview was with Director (hiring manager). The plan was to do Zoom interviews for the first round, and then have finalists come in person to meet with other staff.
    – Sent thank-you email to hiring manager the next day. No response (which I’d expected)
    – After hearing nothing, I emailed the hiring manager for a status update two weeks after the interview. Still nothing. As I’ve learned here, I mentally moved on.
    -Yesterday, I saw the position reposted on HigherEdJobs. Cue sad face.

    I understand the hiring process can take much longer than expected, and I acknowledged this in my email to the hiring manager. She did warn me in the interview. So perhaps I came across as impatient. Still, I am disappointed to be ghosted.

    Another thing was that, during the interview, the Hiring Manager was interviewing for one specialist (for a total of two specialists), but then said that they eventually wanted to hire a second specialist (for a total of 3 specialists). My hope is that they finally got approval to fill the third slot and had to repost to get a bigger pool. This is a small disability services office.

    What’s your take on this? Also, should I email HR to get a sense of what’s going on?

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Honestly, 3 weeks is nothing in university time. I think you should mentally move on for your own well being, but there’s absolutely nothing here to indicate you are no longer being considered. They just take forever to move through their process!

  41. I’m a Pro…crastinator*

    I’ve struggled with procrastination and focus my whole life, but it has gotten really bad lately and it’s really making me unhappy and hurting my work performance. Can someone point me to resources that might help with this?

    A bit more detail: in school I was always the “smart but disorganized/lazy” kid. I’m the student who could easily have gotten A’s but often settled for B’s because I’d procrastinate and struggle to summon the motivation to give it my all. This has continued at work. Luckily I work much faster than most people, so I’ve been able to work around these tendencies so far.

    But over the past few months it’s gotten really bad. I’m not missing hard deadlines, but I am getting things done much later than I intended and may even have to start doing some evening or weekend work to get caught up. I find I’m losing so much of my day to mindless scrolling on the internet and zoning out, and I’m doing it even when I really don’t want to be.

    Why has this gotten worse now? Partly I think I’m just really bored with my job and ready to move on. And partly it’s because I recently got out of a long term relationship and subsequently have had a lot of Feelings and existential questions that feel more salient to me than work.

    I’ve tried adderall in the past, and it did help somewhat, but it seemed to work less well over time and I didn’t like the side effects. Caffeine helps a little but isn’t a game changer. I’ve also tried the pomodoro method and, again, it helps a little but hasn’t made a huge difference.

    1. hi hello*

      :-( I’ve been feeling the same way. I find that it helps to calendar everything–so if there’s a project I have to work on, I’ll put it in my calendar, even if it’s just from 10-11. I tend to get more done when my calendar looks full, versus those days where it’s just empty.

      Other than that, all I can do is offer solidarity. I don’t know about you, but for me it’s a burnout thing, and I just have to keep telling myself that I’ll get some PTO. Eventually.

      2. I’m a Pro…crastinator*

        I think I’m burnt out, but more from boredom and not being super interested in the role and field. To oversimplify a bit, Im basically a project manager for one big project that is done essentially the same way year after year, and there’s no real room for growth. I have to keep track of a lot, but I really only have to work late when I procrastinate a ton, the amount of work is reasonable.

        Luckily I have good work life balance and lots of PTO, but I haven’t found time off (even weeklong vacation) to be helpful at all.

        1. hi hello*

          Hm, well something that helps when I’m bored is beefing up what I do outside of work. What hobbies do you have? Are you part of a book club? (If not, join one!) Is there a sport you enjoy doing that you could join a league for? I find that boredom during the day isn’t so bad when I know that in the evenings I’ll be doing things that make me really happy. Personally, boredom only becomes intolerable when I spend all day bored and then go home and just watch tv.

    2. kiki*

      I’ve fallen in similar procrastination holes from time-to-time, especially when bad stuff is happening in my personal life or the world.

      A few things that help me:
      – Schedule time throughout the week to process the end of your relationship. Journal, think about the relationship while taking a walk, or cry if you need. Even if you’re not completely done with work, take time for processing. As a fellow procrastinator, I do this thing where I’m too rigid about prioritization and say “I must do X before I do Y & Z.” But then I’m not in a place where I can realistically bring myself to do X and also don’t do Y and Z, which only makes things worse. But having Y and Z off your plate will likely help you in the long term and may even inspire more motivation to do X.
      – Take a vacation. If you have enough PTO, take a full week. Use that time to do your favorite things and reset. Don’t plan on doing any work or “catching up” over that time. Genuinely take time away.
      – Make sure you’re still taking time during the week to do things that are important to you. If you like to exercise, make sure you’re still doing that; if you are really social, make sure you’re seeing your friends.
      – Treat every day like a new chance to do well. Stop thinking about how little you did yesterday. Forgive yourself.
      – Take time in the morning to list out what you plan to do today. Be realistic. None of that “I will finish this whole project today.” Say you’ll get done something small and specific on the project.
      – Don’t try to get back to 100% productivity right away. Be fine with 60% for a week, then 70%, then 80%, and so on. Going back and forth between 0 and 100 is what burns procrastinators out.

    3. YouwantmetodoWHAT?! *

      This was me my entire life. Then in 2018 I had full allergy testing and found out that I have significant food allergies. Wheat is one, not gluten but a full on wheat allergy.

      Do you know what wheat allergies cause?

      Depression, brain fog etc.

      My soy allergy is why I was fatigued and in pain everyday.

      I had no idea, I thought that I was defective.

      My entire life has changed. Things that took me weeks to get done now take less than an hour. I could go on and on.

      I also learned that wheat allergy is super common and most people do not know that they have it. So please consider getting allergy testing.
      Good luck!

    4. ferrina*

      I’m ADHD, so lack of motivation is REAL. You say you’ve tried adderall- if you are or think you are ADHD, I recommend learning more about how ADHD affects the brain (I’ll link a couple videos in a reply). Lack of interest in your job (combined with any malaise from the break-up) can trigger ADHD symptoms to come up en masse

      For me, I end up switching motivational techniques every couple weeks, or sometimes every couple days during a bad week. Here’s some of my go-to techniques:
      -Exercise. Going on a quick walk can increase focus for a couple hours after this (I usually still have to do a pomodoro to get started)
      – Use Pomodoros but with movement. I’ll do 20 minutes of work, then 10 minutes of moving housework like decluttering (which inevitably turns into 5 minutes of housework then “ugh I’d rather do my work work for an extra 5 minutes!”)
      – Gum or water bottles with straws. anything that keeps my mouth working and provides a bit of multitasking/stimulation.
      – Sticker chart or checklists.
      -Work outside the internet. I have days where I need to put my phone across the room or I will lose 2 hours of working time. Sometimes I’ll just abandon my computer and sit on the floor and work on papers. This works great for things that need outlines or slide designs. Or for when I need to reference data on my computer, I take physical notes. It helps me engage more.
      -Loud rock music. I really like CDs because they have a set length and no ads (so I don’t have an excuse to go check on them). Because I know what song is which, I’m not distracted by the lyrics or details like that.
      -Switching locations. Even just moving from a chair to the floor can make a difference.

      And if you’re bored with your job, start applying! It can be motivating to know that you don’t need to do this job indefinitely- you just need to do a great job for now, then you’ll be great at a different job!

      Might also be worth it to talk to a health professional. I struggled with depression after the dissolution of an LTR, and my only symptom was extreme fatigue and inability to focus. Medication made such a difference. If you are ADHD, there are other medication options that you can explore. ADHD medication has come a long, long way recently, and there’s several classes to choose from. There’s also other medications that can impact ADHD- my anti-depressant has a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, which helps motivation. It has been eye-opening and validating to experience motivation (aka, dopamine) the same way as neurotypical people (dopamine makes motivation sooooo much easier).

    5. Person+from+the+Resume*

      Since the procrastination is a symptom of other things, you need to fix the other things. Ultimately you need to get a new, not boring job and process your feelings about the end of the relationship.

      Put the phone away in another room, in your car if that’s where you’re scrolling. Block the distracting websites on your computer if possible. Try mindfulness, being conscious of when you’re about to start mindless scrolling and redirect yourself.

    6. RagingADHD*

      Have you tried gamifying your goals, with little rewards? Worked well for me in a very boring job.

      So for each time interval that you stay focused, you get a star, and after X amount of stars, you get a prize. Mine were stuff like making a cup of fancy tea, or putting on my favorite playlist.

  42. Hotdog not dog*

    I have a question about questions…as a high level individual contributor and SME I answer a lot of questions, which is fine! I’m happy to help. However, there is one individual who will ask what appears to be a straightforward question, then takes my answer and inserts it as “ammunition” in various arguments they are having with other colleagues, attempting to drag me into their drama. I can’t just refuse to answer questions, but I’m not willing to participate in any silly feuds. I tried asking for additional context before providing an answer but that became its own separate drama when they went to my boss about me “dragging my feet” and “giving them the 3rd degree”. Any suggestions on how to handle this person? They’re known as a drama llama, but their work is good enough that they get away with it. I’ve been too old for this kind of crap since I was nine! I’m considering requiring all questions from this person to filter through their manager- maybe if she’s forced to deal with the missing stair she’ll finally address the unnecessary drama?

    1. LondonLady*

      “I’m considering requiring all questions from this person to filter through their manager” sounds like a plan. Their manager might welcome some dampening of the drama.

      Alternatively, with that person, go back and ask them for context for the question each time.

      Do you have an intranet or Slack or similar? Depending on the volume and value of the questions, you could perhaps have FAQs or moderated topic channels to help manage this stuff.

    2. Mockingjay*

      You actually can not answer questions. Just redirect.

      “I can’t think of the answer off the top of my head. Sorry, I’m swamped today.”
      “Sorry, I can’t look that up. Boss needs the Teapot sales report ASAP. I gotta focus.”
      “Not sure, did you look on the company wiki page?”
      “I don’t know; doesn’t Greta handle that stuff?”
      “Can you send me an email with the background on that? It will help determine the best/correct answer.”

      Don’t feel any compunction to answer someone whose goal is only to elicit fuel for an argument.

      I am curious; what was your manager’s response to their complaint?

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        Actually, answering questions is a part of my job, so I’m very limited in being able to deflect them. Management just wants to keep working around the missing stair. Like many companies, we’re short staffed and this person is otherwise good at their job. I’ve discussed it with this person’s manager a few times, and they (Drama Llama) have been written up for it. My own manager sees it as a shortfall on my part for not being able to shut it down quickly enough when it happens.
        The next time it comes up I will try to delay answering. Hopefully the question will come via email or Teams rather than an ambush phone call (where DL frequently has additional parties on conference without telling me-that’s a whole ‘nother issue!)

        1. Mockingjay*

          In this case, I’ll rephrase my suggestions. Try versions of “Not sure Llama; let me look into that and I will get back to you.”

          If Llama demands immediate satisfaction, “let me confirm the data; not sure if the latest figures have been added.” Matter-of-fact, routine verification. Hope that helps!

  43. Mimmy*

    Ack… that’s two weeks in a row that I post but it doesn’t show up. Are all comments going into moderation now? Is anyone else experiencing this?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      There are certain words that automatically trigger moderation and all links automatically trigger moderation, so if you’ve posted on the same topic/with links a few times in a row those comments will all go to moderation before they’re released. Have the comments appeared after a few hours or do they disappear entirely?

      1. Mimmy*

        When it happened last week, it appeared a few hours later. I’m not sure if it was coincidental or if Alison released it after I’d written to her via the “report an issue” link.

        I had no links either time. I can’t figure out what words I’m using to trigger the moderation.

        1. ferrina*

          It sounds like it triggered moderation. I’ve had this happen a couple times- once when I knew it was a moderation trigger (commenting on a sensitive topic) but once when I wasn’t sure what triggered the mod filter.

          Try posting an unquestionably innocuous comment, like “+1”. That should show up right away.

        2. Person+from+the+Resume*

          Just wait and it will show up. Your post very likely went to moderation and Alison will release it soon.

    2. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Comments go to moderation if they contain a link or if they trigger the moderation filter for some reason. Reasons a comment might trigger the filter vary, and sometimes there’s no reason for it at all; the filter just gets overly aggressive for some reason. I release them once I see them.

  44. PB Bunny Watson*

    So I know it’s illegal to tell employees that they cannot discuss salaries or working conditions. What is the legality of “requesting” that they do not discuss these things?
    (Seems kinda sus… but is it legal?)

    1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Well, that’s just semantics — telling and asking are definitely the same thing when an entity with authority and power is doing it. So they are pretty much both illegal — but usually the law doesn’t come into play until there is harm done, like retaliation.

    2. ferrina*

      Not a lawyer, but feels technically legal. That said, if you politely decline to acquiesce to their request, any retaliation would be illegal.

      If you want to gently push back, you can always “misunderstand” the ask. “Oh, actually I think that federal law requires that non-management employees be allowed to discuss compensation and working conditions if they want to. Or am I missing something?”…..(pause while they bluster)….”Oh, okay. So this is something that you’d prefer, but if an employee wants to discuss this they’re legally protected when having this discussion. Cool, thanks for clarifying!”
      Bonus points if you can have this discussion around other people, and if you keep a cheerful and helpful demeanor the whole time.

    3. Ginger Baker*

      I had to have an entire call with HR when my manager said a similar thing on a group call with the department. It is illegal, full stop. Presuming your HR is at all competent, I would flag it for them. My call included a lot of “I’m sure it was unintentional, but obviously we don’t want to open the company to legal liability due to this” and “I am worried that since some people this was said to are new to the workforce, they will not realize this is illegal for the company to ask, so I think there should be some follow-up where this is clarified to the group” and “I noticed the slides used included this and also were used in a presentation to a different group at the company, so you will want to make sure it is revised and addressed there too”. (It worked, HR was pretty concerned, and said manager issued a retraction at the next meeting. It was a bit less smooth than might be desired, but included what needed to be said so it worked for me.)

      1. PB Bunny Watson*

        They originally said they told staff not to discuss their wages. When I pointed out in the meeting that this was illegal, the response was that they “request” staff don’t discuss their wages. Unfortunately… the person responding is in charge of HR. womp womp

        2. Ginger Baker*

          Do you have a General Counsel? I would escalate there next if so, if you want. You can drop it – you don’t need to be the only one working to fix problems the company seems unconcerned about – but if you do want to escalate, that would be the next logical place to go.

  45. Never Been So Excited to Quit Something*

    Any advice on turning in two weeks notice? I got a job offer this week that I accepted (yay!) but I’m really nervous about turning in two weeks at this job. Ideally I wouldn’t have to work out the complete time since we’re overstaffed but I’m going to offer two weeks and mention that I’m fine leaving sooner if that works best for them in terms of coverage and labor hours.

    1. ferrina*

      Your plan sounds great!
      Expect some questions about why you are leaving/what the new job is, so you may want to have answers to those.
      Also think about the transition- is there anything that you’ve been covering that your boss might not think of (like something that comes up only a couple times a year) or something that only you do that you’d need to train others in?

      Congrats on your new job!

    2. Blarg*

      Also pay attention to things like health insurance coverage and when it would end at old job and start at new job (assuming you’re in the US).

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I would recommend that you think more about your needs for those 2 weeks rather than their needs. Do you need the wages — even just as a nice cushion? Are you really ready if they say your last day is the same day you give notice? Do you want to be able to get in a few appointments before you lose a benefit — doctor visit, eye glasses, dental visit, prescriptions? Benefits tend not to kick in right away at a new job.

      If you would really rather have the time off between jobs, or start the new job early, you could state it more directly, “I’m prepared to give a full two weeks notice, and don’t want to cause a hardship in the office, but I’d like to have my last day as [three days] from now.”

      Congratulations on the new job!

  46. For the love of decency*

    Trying to figure out how upset to be about this boundary breach. I work in the medical field which means we are slammed seeing patients non stop. We are a small team of 8-10 people. We have a large refrigerator that staff use to store lunches and has a lot of free space. Occasionally staff will run out to the grocery store during a lunch break and bring a gallon of milk or whatever to keep in the fridge until the end of the day when they can take it home. I did that on Thursday and also picked up a prescription injection (think diabetes shot) that needed to be refrigerated. The medication is in a paper bag that is clearly from a pharmacy but doesn’t have identifying information. By the end of the day the bag was open in the frig. I could tell because the pharmacy uses a ton of staples to close up the bag. When I asked what happened a coworker said she opened it because she was curious “what you are was taking”. Which tells me she did know it was a medication and not say a bakery bag and still opened it! I told her it wasn’t her business what medication I was on and she shouldn’t have opened it if it wasn’t hers. She shrugged and said I shouldn’t have put something so sensitive or personal in the community frig. We are all medical professionals we deal with Hippa on a daily basis why doesn’t she see this as an overstep? Trying to see if my expectations are off?

    1. BellyButton*

      What!?!? No, you are not wrong to be upset about this. People shouldn’t touch anything that isn’t theirs in the refrigerator and that shouldn’t need to be said. touching someone’s medication is way too far.

      I would use this as a jumping off point to ask for a small refrigerator you can keep at your desk.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      That is shocking. I assumed somebody thought it was full of treats for the office. Snooping at somebody’s medication is unacceptable. In any field, but being medical professionals makes it even worse.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        I’m not in healthcare, but I can almost see how being in that field makes snooping on other people’s medications seem like less of a big deal. If your job deals with medications all day, then meds no longer seem like a private thing.

        I’m not condoning her behavior (she should not be looking at her coworkers medications to satisfy her own curiosity), just saying I’m slightly less surprised about this happening in healthcare vs a more typical office environment.

        1. MaryLoo*

          Hard disagree. If you’re in health care you should absolutely know that other people’s medications are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS (and yes, I know I just yelled on the internet).

          This is akin to saying that if you are a psychiatrist you have the right to ask everybody about their mental health issues. Or an MD going around asking people details about their health.

    3. kiki*

      No, that’s super bizarre and a huge breach of boundaries. If it were an accident of some sort (she thought the bag was hers), that would be different, but she confirmed it wasn’t an accident and she wanted to know what medications you’re on! That’s not any of her business. Also, the bag was stapled shut– accidents happen, so a communal fridge isn’t the best place to keep something private, but you had every right to expect nobody would rifle through a bag that’s STAPLED SHUT.

    4. hi hello*

      Super weird and inappropriate of her to do that. Your expectations are not off–my colleagues have their lunch boxes in the community fridge, but I never go through the contents to see what they’re eating. Let alone what medication they’re taking! She sucks and you’re right to be annoyed.

    5. Sorry*

      Yes, she should have not looked any more then she shouldn’t open your lunch bag. But HIPPA does not apply here. You left medication in an area open to others.

    6. Dust Bunny*

      What, no! It was “locked”–it was solidly stapled shut!

      This is not a HIPAA violation (your healthcare provider did not give her the information) but this person is a nut.

      I would never even open obvious food containers, never mind a firmly-closed paper bag.

      1. Reba*

        I read it as OP is just bringing that up to say that medical privacy is something they deal with day to day, so the concept should be familiar!

        I would be so shocked.

    7. AG*

      “She shrugged and said I shouldn’t have put something so sensitive or personal in the community frig.”

      Did she expect you to keep your medication not refridgerated? There is no room for the benefit of the doubt here. I’d be furious if that was done to me. Even acknowledges that it is sensitive!

    8. LadyByTheLake*

      She opened your closed container for the specific stated purpose of snooping on something that everyone understands is private. Holy crap in a bucket! Does she think it’s okay to dig through your purse or your phone if they aren’t locked up? Huge violation of all personal and professional boundaries, and especially concerning that someone who deals with other people’s secrets would shamelessly do such a deranged thing. I would flag this to management.

    9. JelloStapler*

      Oh hell no, just because something is there doe snot mean she can open and pick through. She should know better. I’d report her.

    10. SJ (they/them)*

      exCUSE ME????? She “wanted to know what you were taking” ??? and she said this OUT LOUD to you??? like, without shame?

      absolutely the f********CK not. communal fridge means “we can all store our stuff in there”, not “everything is everyone else’s property” !!

      aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    12. Parenthesis Dude*

      That’s wild. I’d report her to whoever the boss is. If I were the boss, I’d fire her on the spot. It’s not that this offense is that big. But anyone who does something like that can’t be trusted with confidential information and that means you can’t trust them to work at a doctor’s office.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Agreed, given the context*, this rises to something the coworker’s manager will want to know about. If you don’t share a manager, maaaaybe give your manager a heads up first.

        The coworker behaved terribly.

        *Medical professionals at work, stapled bag, pharmacy bag, and you already tried talking to coworker 1:1

    14. NewJobNewGal*

      As someone who worked Quality at a heathcare system and had to handle medication “loss” and mishandling I’d report this incident in your deviation system. No one should be handling or tampering with meds without reason. I don’t care if it’s your meds, or a patient’s meds, or some random meds placed on a counter. Opening the sealed bag is outrageous!
      At a minimum, it needs to be documented.
      My blood is going to be boiling for the rest of the day.

    15. Dr. Anonymous*

      I am quite sure the manager at our office would have a very serious conversation, indeed, with anyone who did that.

      1. London Calling*

        I can’t get over the ‘yeah I snooped but it’s your fault for leaving it there and tempting me.’

    16. Chauncy Gardener*

      What the actual f–?? Just sputtering over here, no constructive advice. Just full on disbelief at your coworker and total commiseration

    17. Nightengale*

      Your expectations are on. This is a huge overstep. The only reason to look in someone else’s thing in a shared refrigerator is if you have something in a very similar container and aren’t sure if the thing is yours or not. Like two identical opaque tupperwares or bags.

      “Curious what you were taking” says she knows it is a medication and is just snooping. Which medical people should know not to do (even though this isn’t a HIPPA violation.) And then she blamed you rather than apologizing!

      I would consider reporting this if feasible.

      Signed – a diabetic doctor who keeps emergency insulin in the break room refrigerator and sometimes picks up her whole prescription from the work pharmacy and stores it in the refrigerator until time to go home. . .

  47. kiki*

    share your routines and tips for maintaining them

    I’m starting a new role in a few weeks. I’ve historically had trouble maintaining solid routines and work-life balance. I’ve been getting better, but it’s easy for me to toss helpful routines (like taking a morning walk, setting an intention for the day, etc) during times of stress or when I’m busy.

    So I’d love if folks shared their routines that help maintain work-life balance and any tips for keeping with them, even when busy. Thanks!

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Keeping routines in times of stress/business:

      When you feel like “I have so much going on! No time for a morning walk today!” Remind yourself that skipping today’s walk may feel like the right move in the short term, but realistically an extra 20 minutes to do [whatever is driving the stress/business] will not solve the problem and in the long-term maintaining the morning walk routine will do more to lower your stress levels. Takes a lot of self-discipline at first, but over time the routines will become non-negotiable parts of your day and you won’t even think about skipping them.

    2. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

      I’ve learned that I’m a person who needs different routines at different times. Changing seasons, hormonal changes, outside-of-work things: all of these affect how I show up to work really deeply. It used to be that I would beat myself up for letting my routines slip. Now I’ve learned to identify when I’m shifting into a new mode and need a new routine. Some things that have been helpful for me with this:
      -Talk therapy (to stop holding myself to what I think I’m supposed to be doing)
      -Learning more about how other cultures and communities (now and historically) have responding to changing seasons
      -(May or may not be relevant or comfortable for you) Learning more about how my hormones change over the course of a month and how that affects me – this is through research as well as journaling/tracking – because everyone’s body is different, irrespective of what research articles tell you is always true
      -When I find a routine that is working well for me, giving myself permission to stick with it *even if* it flies in the face of conventional wisdom
      -Giving myself the grace to know this routine will diminish in usefulness over time, and that is okay

    3. EMP*

      Be kind to yourself if you drop the routine. It’s easy to say “ugh I missed my walk all week, why even bother today” but it’s fine to miss some days and get back into it later.

      Secondly, you have to make time for it when you’re busy. More easily said than done, right? But telling myself this over and over does help, sometimes, as does explicitly prioritizing my to-do list and explicitly letting some fall off the bottom (the beginning of the month was very busy to me and I skipped cleaning the bathroom in order to keep some pre-bed relaxation time. Not everyone’s priority but it was mine!)

    4. Mac (I Wish All The Floors Were Lava)*

      Honestly, self-care has always been a big problem for me, but I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of just reframing how I talk to myself about stuff, like, instead of saying “oh man, I should do X” and then feeling guilty and (usually) not doing it, I instead try and tell myself “I like doing X, and I deserve to do things that make me feel good”. It’s not a perfect fix, but it definitely helps.

  48. Irish Teacher.*

    Just something I wanted to share. One of my colleagues had her last day today (we’re sad to lose her, but she got a deputy principal job, which is awesome for her). She made a goodbye speech, saying how she always felt free to be herself in our workplace. Which…put words on what I love about my job. I am literally encouraged to borrow fidget toys from the ASD unit to fidget with. People make a point of accommodating my picky eating if we are ordering in food and of checking on me when places get crowded or busy. My obsessiveness is almost seen as an advantage, as it means I plan classes meticulously.

    And it’s not just me. It seems like quirks are not just accommodated, but celebrated and where possible, made use of and treated as a benefit to the school.

    Just a “why I love my workplace.”

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Hooray, I needed a positive “my workplace is cool” refuel story, so thank you for sharing!

  49. Cruciatus*

    Can anyone speak to what to expect in a assistant curator/archivist role? One is available at a local insurance place in my city (a little weird!) and I’m interested, but they are looking for people with degrees in museum management and that kind of thing. I’ve worked in both public and academic libraries on the staff side (non-librarian) for nearly 10 years now. In my current role I sometimes help the archivist with scanning photos, and projects like that. But my role is mostly related to books, but I feel like maybe library experience could apply to curation/archives? But I don’t know so if anyone can provide some insight that’d be great!

    1. Dust Bunny*

      I’m a non-MLIS archives assistant in a medical school library. We’re mostly paper and rare books with a few artifacts, but I do scanning, answering research requests that come in by phone or email, helping researchers determine which collections they need to see, and I do a lot of inventories of collections.

      An insurance place probably means records management? “Archivist” seems like an odd way to describe it even though there will be overlap and it’s not uncommon for librarians and archivists to do records management work. But I’m not sure what, specifically, that looks like in a business setting.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Museum management is such an odd thing to expect…now I’m picturing those Farmers Insurance commercials with J.K. Simmons walking a person through a museum…is that REAL? (just kidding) I’m sorry I have nothing useful to add.

    3. Blarg*

      This might be more of a regulatory thing in an insurance context. What documents need to be preserved/archived, for how long, in what conditions, how are they released and to whom, and when can they be destroyed, and how do we do that, etc.

      Or perhaps there’s an insurance industry museum coming to your town. :)

    4. MagnusArchivist*

      I’d guess they’re looking for someone to help manage their old records (that aren’t actively being used any more) so that the company can use them for promotions, displays, and planning future stuff based on past stuff. If this role reports to someone with an archives or records management degree, you’ll probably be fine! But I’d be wary that they actually want someone with serious and specific RM or archives skills, like knowledge of legal requirements for record retention, but they don’t *know* that’s what they want. An awful lot of corporate managers hiring someone to “take care of the archives” think it’s an easy job where you just, like, do some filing and scan some photographs, and don’t understand that there are actual skills and complicated practices.

      1. Cruciatus*

        This company is a huge employer in my city (and neighboring states, even) and they have a long history in this city, own historic buildings, etc. So I do think it’s actually dealing with “real” archive stuff. I do know it’s not just scanning, though that DOES come up in the job description. But I didn’t want to ask the archivist I do work for sometimes because she would be upset at the thought of me leaving (which is nice, but not useful in this moment!) They are all looking for a director, so I definitely would not be in charge, but I’m really trainable in stuff, and feel like this wouldn’t be toooooo far out of my wheelhouse. But I also don’t know what I don’t know.

    5. tessa*

      If the degree is a required qualification, and you have one, apply and find out if you have what they’re looking for. I think it’s really just that straightforward.

  50. alright*

    My boss’s boss has been doing something that makes my skin crawl but I’m not sure if it’s a me problem or a her problem. She’s a kind and generous person, and she often invites us to talk to her about any problems we have, specifically she invites us to come to her if we have questions or concerns or if we want to “vent”, and she does this both in the context of work things AND in the context of non-work things. For example, she might invite us to vent to her about one of our important software tools being broken…or about a recent mass shooting. This feels bananas to me.

    1. ferrina*

      That would make me really uncomfortable. I don’t go to my grandboss to blow off steam- I go to them when I need something to be solved. And how does this person have enough free time that they think this is a good use of their work time?

      I’d be wary of this person. Best case, she has a poor read on power dynamics and expectations on her role. There’s a really high likelihood of her confusing venting with a problem she needs to solve (or vice versa). Worst case, she’s gathering pain points that she can leverage as needed (like deciding that since Janet has complained about her husband, she shouldn’t get that promotion because she’s “having trouble at home and wouldn’t give the job her full attention”)

    2. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

      Sounds like your boss’s boss wants to be everyone’s friend/therapist, rather than a work leader. It’s inappropriate! It’s one thing to invite participation, feedback, and even criticism (where appropriate), but it’s another to ask people to “vent” to her. What happens when someone “vents” to her about a topic/issue when she has the opposite political view? What if someone wants to “vent” about a policy or procedure she enacted? This is so problematic!

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I’d assume it’s well intentioned, but yeah uncomfy. Given the power differential I’d probably just politely decline the invitation.

    4. Oh, Snap!*

      @alright – I think I might be doing this to my team… would you be comfortable sharing a bit more about what these interactions look like and how you’d prefer your skip-boss would behave instead? I assume it wouldn’t matter if this was your direct manager vs 1 level up?

      1. alright*

        The part about it that I find uncomfortable and, yes, inappropriate for a work setting is pretty much what the other commenters have touched on: work isn’t a place to be emotionally vulnerable, and especially not directly to my boss. I have a very lovely workplace full of extremely lovely people who I 100% believe would treat me fairly and with compassion if they were to see me very upset, but there’s still no situation where I should “vent” to any of them, and especially not to my boss.

        I’m a very private person, like much more so than most of my co-workers, and I don’t have a lot of experience in an office setting like my current job which is why I wanted opinions from people here, but…well, when someone in the workplace is trying to communicate that they’ve got a good open door policy, they shouldn’t be directly inviting the sharing of anything private or emotional, right? I might some day need to bring something private or emotional to my manager or my grand boss (say, if I’m sexually harassed at work or diagnosed with a terminal illness or something) but in those cases I’ll be bringing it to them because it’s relevant to work in some way, not because my coworkers are part of my support system.

        I think my skipboss should therefore leave her invitations for talking about things to stuff that’s strictly related to work. Inviting me to come to her with questions or concerns [about work stuff]: good. Inviting me to talk to her about work problems that I think I’ve found a fix for: good. Inviting me to let her know if I need the day off because [upsetting current event]: totally fine. Inviting me to “vent” about work problems OR about personal things OR about upsetting current events: no! I have friends and a therapist for that. Or twitter, if I absolutely must.

  51. my cat is prettier than me*

    I commented last week about not having my health insurance information. I was sure I’d be okay for a little while, but I ended up in the ER on Tuesday night (I was having severe abdominal pain. I’m sort of okay now, but we’re still not sure what happened). We chose to go to a hospital that would be most likely covered under most insurance. I found out today that it is in-network!
    The HR person came to me an apologized for not getting me the info sooner. She was super great about me taking time off (I took two days) and everyone is glad to see me back. I’m so glad I have pretty good insurance and understanding coworkers.

  52. Nathalie*

    My nearest work neighbors are both whisperers which drives me nuts at the best of times for all the usual whispering-is-more-distracting-than-loud-talking reasons. We work in a pretty quiet office so I know they’re just trying to be respectful so I have accepted that as a fact of life, but one of those coworkers is on leave at the moment and, deprived of her best work friend, the other has started coming to me to chat a lot more often. I like her a lot and enjoy chatting, but I’ve suffered some hearing loss in the last year and I often genuinely cannot understand what she’s saying. In the past I’ve always just kind of pretended I heard her and smiled/nodded to avoid saying “Huh? What?” 20 times per conversation but now that we’re talking so much more it’s getting awkward. The idea of asking her to speak up fills me with anxious dread so even though I know it’s the best thing to do in this scenario I also know that I 100% will not do it. Any other tips for navigating this?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      “The idea of asking her to speak up fills me with anxious dread so even though I know it’s the best thing to do in this scenario I also know that I 100% will not do it. Any other tips for navigating this?”

      Any tips for navigating this besides telling her you are having trouble hearing her? No. That’s like impossible. You can’t close caption in real life. She probably doesn’t know ASL. Just tell her you’re having some trouble hearing her. You can blame it more on yourself than on her – focus on your hearing issues instead of saying she talks softly. If you don’t want to disclose hearing issues you can make it sound like a temporary problem (I used the lawnmower without ear protection this weekend my hearings a bit off today could you speak up?). Or you could redirect to a text chat program if you office has one, (I’m having some trouble with tinnitus lately would you mind if we chatted in slack instead)

      1. Nathalie*

        As I said, I know this is the correct answer but I know myself well enough to know I will never do it, hence the request for other suggestions.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          I think you have three options here:

          1) Continue your smile-nod-pretend routine. Pro: you don’t have to ask her to speak up. Con: she will think you are strange if you smile at a sad moment/don’t answer a direct question.

          2) Ask her to speak up, as DisneyChannelThis suggests. Pro: you will be able to hear her when she talks to you. Con: you won’t do this.

          3) Tell her you are busy with work and cannot talk to her. Pro: you don’t have to ask her to speak up. Con: she may think you don’t like her, or that she’s done something to offend her, or that you have become a cold and distant person.

          1. Nathalie*

            I think I’ll have to go with a version of #1 where I just ask her to repeat herself more often. I avoid it now so as not to be annoying, but maybe the annoyance will train her to just talk louder to me.

            1. Jaydee*

              Is there a reason you don’t feel comfortable just asking her to speak a little louder? I see below that you’ve told people at work about your hearing loss, so I’m guessing the anxiety isn’t about disclosing your hearing loss. If you’re worried she’ll feel put out by it, I think she would actually be less bothered by being asked outright to please help you out by speaking up (most people want to be helpful!) versus being asked to repeat herself all the time.

              If you need a script, I’d suggest something like “Hey Jane, when we talk could you speak a little bit louder? I really appreciate that you don’t want to be disruptive to everyone else, but with my hearing loss I have a hard time following what you’re saying sometimes. I don’t want to miss something important you say or have to ask you to repeat yourself a bunch of times.” This way you’re giving her a way to help you, and you’re simultaneously acknowledging she’s a caring person and validating that you *want* to hear what she has to say. If she reacts poorly to that, she’s not nearly as kind and pleasant a person as I’m assuming her to be!

        2. ThatGirl*

          I understand that anxiety can be overwhelming or even debilitating, but I would like to offer this thought up: it will cause you a LOT more anxiety NOT to say it than to just spit it out. Like I can almost guarantee you’d feel relieved once you said it. If it’s easier, you could say it in a chat or an email when you’re not face to face. But… it’s your life!

        3. Mac (I Wish All The Floors Were Lava)*

          Is there some dumb, slightly folksy catchphrase you can come up with to help diffuse the awkwardness? Like, I dunno, “these ears are stuck at 50% so I’m gonna need you to turn up your volume” or “hon, if you’re not telling me state secrets right now, I’m gonna need you to speak a lot louder”. I think there’s definitely gotta be a way to do it that comes off as friendly and helps build a closer bond between you guys, instead of just sounding critical or demanding.

      2. Grumpy*

        I am getting hearing aids next week , after years of slowly decreasing hearing, and can’t wait! Try to accept that hearing loss is nothing to be ashamed of. Just tell her you have hearing loss and ask her to speak up.

        1. Nathalie*

          The thing is I’ve definitely talked about my hearing loss at work because I’m young for it and the thing that caused it was fairly dramatic (in a funny way) and I like telling the story (not sharing here for anonymity reasons because I can’t imagine it has happened to very many people). I think it’s just a dot she’s not connecting because she’s so used to talking at this volume and nobody else having problems.

    2. Diatryma*

      Put up a sign so it’s not you telling her specifically, but you letting everyone know that you may need a bit more volume.

  53. Elle*

    I’m catching up on Abbot Elementary and I love it so much. As a life long non profit person I really appreciate the budget struggles and developing lessons that kids will love.

    2. Dark Macadamia*

      I need to check it out! Most shows that happen in schools aren’t really about schools and I love the idea of a teacher workplace comedy

  54. Dr. Smartypants*

    Hi everyone,
    I have a little bit of a question involving how to deal with my manager. She is someone a bit inexperienced in the managing position but very secure in her ideas/opinions. Many times she has done questionable things, such as not wanting me to take one week off following a car accident (she argued that she wanted me to take one day at a time, and “it’s best to move to warm up muscles”), or saying that if my colleagues were being slow/not responsive I should pick up their work, or saying that despite having suffered silent treatment by another coworker that was ok given that in her opinion I was also partly responsible for the deterioration of the relationship.
    However now, the new issue is that she put me on a PIP for “not communicating well”, using only one or two examples (which are arguable). I wonder if she takes it on me because she either thinks very poorly of me or if she sees any criticism towards me personally (if her subordinate is less than perfect, reflects on her).
    I was wondering what kind of wording I could use to gently push back on this without sounding aggressive or pushy. I tend to be very direct and in general that approach hasn’t worked (I’m in a toxic workplace with huge egos).
    Thanks :)

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I’d be very very careful. PIP is the one of the last steps toward firing. Pushing back on it, instead of showing you are working to fix the issue may backfire badly on you. Take a mental step back, pretend the PIP isn’t for you – what steps would you suggest a peer or a friend take to show they can fix the issues outlined there. For communication that’s often things like making sure you’re not talking over people, following up on tasks verbally assigned via email, keeping your managers in the loop on your progress, making sure to foster an environment where everyone feels valued.

      Do you have HR? Was HR involved with the PIP, generally the manager has to have actionable stuff and jumped through some hoops with HR before putting an employee on one. It’s extremely unlikely your manager just randomly decided to “punish” you by creating one. They’re a documentation step toward firing when other means of addressing behavior/performance issues haven’t worked.

      Finally, I’d be job hunting just in case anyway – advancement in the company is hard if you do not get along with your manager.

      1. Dr Smartypants*

        Thanks for the reply — it is indeed helpful. I did not mention, but there are other issues (I have a grievance against a colleague) and I suspect that this is a subtle way to let me know that I am not wanted here. In addition, I have a fully documented disability that impairs communication (ND) so that is why I can be quite abrupt at times.

        I’m in HE in a permanent position — communication is stunted by definition. For example, one of the things that I was called on this PIP was not updating others, but no one asked me for an update either. Often I ask people for updates and I get zero response, or have to send tons of emails to get any reply, so clearly it is not a PIP-able thing, unless they want to kick you out.

        But anyway, I’ll start dusting off my resume — I just don’t know what to do of my life if I need to leave academia, hence why I haven’t left yet.

        1. seepy witt*

          I’m really curious if this is a legit PIP that was filed with HR. I am also in higher ed, and I hired a person who supposedly had…not a PIP, but the step below, which is basically a PIP without it being called that. This came up during the reference check with the manager. It was explained to me what was on the PIP and I thought it sounded fishy. Very similar to yours – subjective things like “being a good team player” and “better communication.” Now, I had to write one of these for an employee and it was super hard getting as specific and measurable as I needed to be in order for HR to accept it. Fast forward a month, she asked me to look into seeing if HR could remove it from her record, and…they don’t have any evidence of it. It never got filed with them.

          I’m wondering if you can go to HR and see how they suggest you proceed with such subjective performance management goals, especially in light of your documented disabilities. I don’t think it will make things better with your manager, but it may protect you until you can find another job.

          1. Dr Smartypants*

            HR is involved in this, and was notetaking during the meeting. However, the minutes of the meeting that they sent had things that were not fully discussed or agreed — when I said that the minutes should reflect the meeting, I got called pedantic by my manager. Also, I have met all the (very measurable) goals of the PIP but it keeps getting “extended”…

    3. LondonLady*

      Dear DrSmartypants

      DisneyChannelThis is giving you good advice!

      It’s natural to want to pushback to criticism especially if you feel it is unfair, but the best thing you can do now is to focus on what you need to do to improve your performance and make a success of your current role OR to look for a new role in a workplace that is a better fit for you.

      Try not to focus on the past shortcomings of your boss or their reasons for putting you on a PIP: managers are supposed to manage their employees, and you won’t always agree with their decisions, that is life.

      It sounds as if you have already identified some areas to work on in your communication style, and by understanding what your employer wants from you and making an honest attempt to do that (being less ‘direct’ could mean being more sensitive to the right time to communicate, the right tone, being a better listener etc), you will be helping make your workplace better for you and for those around you.

  55. Ask a Manager* Post author

    Anyone who noticed the site adding a plus sign to your commenting name today: Can you tell me what device and browser you were using when it happened? (Also, people who had it happen may need to clear their cookies to get rid of the plus signs.)

    1. lost academic*

      For what it’s worth, I have not gotten that, I have posted several comments, and am using Chrome from a laptop.

        1. Anon for this one*

          Same – chrome on a macbook – not seeing it and have posted a main comment and several replies.

    4. Irish Teacher*

      Yes, it added a plus sign between the “Irish” and “Teacher” of my name. I just deleted it and that worked for me; at least I think so. Didn’t check how it posted.

      I was using a Samsung tablet and google chrome.

    7. Generic Name*

      OMG, I was sure I did that myself accidentally. I was on my iPad using Safari, so I figured I tapped something inadvertently. I’m currently on a Windows OS using Chrome and don’t see a plus sign.

  56. TinyRobot*

    I’m a recent(?) college grad looking for some advice on giving two weeks notice.

    Basically, after graduating this December I accepted a position in a rotational program for one of the pillars of my local industry. This August I was given an offer to interview with a different company that is more in line with what I want to do with my career. I got that job (complete with a steep pay increase) and now have to resign from my current job. I’m a month and a half into my second rotation and have never “really” resigned from a position before- my prior internship specified that it ended when graduated.

    I’m not sure what the process is and how my current manager will react since I’ve given no indication that I was looking for other jobs and the rotational program guaranteed 2 years of employment and I’m leaving after 8 months. Do I just send him an email? should I schedule a zoom meeting since we all still work remotely? How common is it for new grads to switch jobs like this?

    1. CharlieBrown*

      You usually don’t let your employer know that you’re looking for other work. So you’re okay on that front.

      Is there an employee handbook that provides some guidance on this? If not, and you have a good relationship with your manager, you could meet with them via Zoom to let them know and ask what you need to do to formalize your resignation. Some organizations will be happy with an email, others may need a formal letter.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Resign verbally over Zoom or a phone call. Your manager may ask for an email (“resignation letter”) after. The email can be as simple as “I am resigning from [position] and my last day will be [day month].”

      Because you’re in a rotational program, you may also have to notify some sort of program manager or director, depending on how the rotational program is structured at your company.

      It is fairly common for new grads to leave jobs after less than a year if it’s a bad fit and/or they find a better job. Not everyone does, but enough do that a short stay directly out of college on your resume won’t raise any eyebrows.

    3. PassThePeasPlease*

      Is there a guarantee in writing that at the end of the rotational program you would be hired into a permanent, full time role? If not, I think it makes sense to tell you’re employer that you were offered a permanent, full time role that is more in line with your career goals and let them know that you are putting in your 2 weeks. If you’re manager is reasonable it shouldn’t burn a bridge or anything, these things happen and you have to do what’s best for you!

      As for how you can go about it, I’ve resigned from 2 all remote positions and I’ve set up Zoom meetings with camera on to tell my direct manager and both times they thanked me for the heads up and got the ball rolling on offboarding, contacting HR, figuring out transitions, etc.

      Congrats on the new job btw!

  57. Mystique*

    We had to fire a client a few months ago as he was refusing to pay his bill. It wasn’t worth pursuing the amount owed as the legal fees would have been significantly more than the debt. Frankly, it was worth taking the loss to be rid of him as he was consistently rude and condescending to staff and an utter pain to deal with.

    Fast forward to today and after giving us the silent treatment for 2 months he’s now sent a long rambling email to say how in the wrong we were, and backing it up with “proof”. His supposed proof is his own self recorded document rather than the receipts we actually issue. Apparently we are “morally offensive”. He also claims that we made a mistake 18 months ago and overcharged him $10. Having looked into this the mistake is actually that he’s been undercharged on later invoices. Even if he had been correct it still wouldn’t change the fact he owes us money.

    Whilst part of me wants to correct him and point out his errors… I’m coming down on the side of simply ignoring him. I can’t see any positive upside to responding. It’s not like he’s going to pay up without a massive protracted argument and frankly I have better uses for my time. We have zero interest in ever taking him on as a client again.

    What would you do?

    1. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

      Consult with a lawyer. This former client might be crazy enough to try to sue. I would not respond in any way until I’ve run it past a lawyer. And start pulling all your documentation together on this one!

      1. DisneyChannelThis*

        Seconding this advice. If your company has legal, use it. If not, talk to you bosses about how to respond, and make sure everyones on the same page (warn the people who answer phones!). Generally ignore the crazies. You’re never taking work again from him, so what does it matter what he thinks (except if he sues, or tries to negative review bomb you, etc).

        1. Mystique*

          We’re too small to have legal. We’re in a less litigious country than the US so I’m not too concerned about a lawsuit. I’m not sure what he could try suing for. We’ve not spoken about him publically and he’s had everything he’s paid for, plus extra services he’s not paid for. We’ve just declined to continue providing a service if he’s not going to pay for it.

      2. CharlieBrown*

        Client owes Mystique money and then tries to sue? Over $10? Their own lawyer probably won’t even take this on.

      3. Mystique*

        Thanks for the prompting to get documentation together. I’m not too concerned about a lawsuit, but it doesn’t hurt to have documentation ready, just in case.

      1. Mystique*

        He’s the kind of person convinced he’s always right. I strongly suspect he wants to feel like he’s gotten the final word in.

        1. London Calling*

          Which IMO is why you don’t engage, because you won’t win even when you have and a court (if it gets to that) says so.

          (I was raised by an ‘always has to be right’ parent. Trust me when I say you can’t win, disengagement is the only way).

          1. Mystique*

            Agreed, I don’t think there’s any way of winning. If he’s been stewing over the matter in private for literal months he’s never going to back down. Any response from me will only lead to further communication from him, and I have no desire to open a line of dialogue.

    3. lost academic*

      Ignore him but forward any and all communications to your counsel. If you get phone calls, take notes and send them over too. Ignoring is the right move but CYA!

    4. Frank Doyle*

      I would ignore him. You’re right, it won’t get you anything you want, and will just waste your time and probably add to your frustration.

    5. PollyQ*

      I agree that legal should be looped in, and here’s another argument for otherwise ignoring him: It will drive him NUTS.

      1. Mystique*

        I rather suspect that you’re right that being ignored will drive him mad. We’ve not spoken to him at all since we parted ways. It feels like he’s trying to start an arguement and I’m not interested in playing his game and giving him the satisfaction.

    7. Elle Woods*

      Ignore him. There isn’t an upside to engaging with him and your time is better spent working with paying clients or attracting new ones.

    8. Generic Name*

      Are you a company decision maker? If not, I would forward to your boss and ask them how to handle. If you are a decision maker, I would contact your liability insurance company and ask them how to handle. Or at the very least a lawyer. I’m not saying you need to respond, but it would be good to be prepared in case he decides to sue you.

    9. mreasy*

      I would just not respond. If you don’t have in-house counsel it seems like a lot of money for someone who hasn’t made any legal threats. Just keep your documentation and talk to your lawyer if he does.

      1. Mystique*

        We do not have in house counsel. He has not made any legal threats so seeking counsel feels premature at this stage. He mostly seemed to want to tell us that the way we run the business is wrong.

    10. RagingADHD*

      I’d respond once by saying any communication not accompanied by payment as evidence of good faith will not be read.

      Then I’d set up an automatic mailing to re-send the outstanding invoice for maybe six months. If the balance is large enough, I’d send him to collections and (if possible) mess up his credit report.

      You already fired him as a client. Now he’s just a deadbeat and a bully who is trying to intimidate you to get out of paying. No reason to play nice.

  58. PNW Planner*

    My sister just got called for a phone interview for a fairly large organization. Neither of us have ever had to do a phone interview. For those that have, are they different than your standard in-person panel? Any advice?

    1. Melanie Cavill*

      If it’s just a screener, it’s sort of like a pre-interview. They generally want to confirm salary expectations, ask a few generic questions about your background, and determine whether or not you sound like a loose cannon.

      If it’s a proper interview, just over the phone rather than in person, there’s no difference aside from the medium.

    2. Educator*

      The questions tend to be similar, but I take advantage of the fact that they can’t see me and develop a “cheat sheet” of notes to have in front of me–bullet points for the stories I want to tell, my elevator pitch for why I want the role, keywords from the job description that I want to use, etc.

      I also always take phone interviews professionally dressed and at my desk–helps me get in the right headspace. And I try to smile, especially at the beginning, because you can hear that in a person’s voice.

      The back and forth can be a little less natural when you can’t see the other person, so I try to be really intentional about ending my answers with a summative statement, like “And that’s how we doubled our profits” or a question back so that things don’t weirdly trail off.

      And if a video or in-person interview is not the next stage, that’s a red flag.

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        And if a video or in-person interview is not the next stage, that’s a red flag.

        Not necessarily. I work for a mid-sized tech company that is very functional and one of the best places, if not the best place, I’ve ever worked – I was hired after four phone interviews. At no point did I go anywhere in person (the hiring panel was dispersed across the U.S. and Europe) and no one ever asked for a video interview either. Come to find out, the team I was hired into just wasn’t into video calls and with the various time zone differences we had on our team, that made sense.

    3. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

      A phone interview may be shorter than an in-person interview. It’s usually serves as the first step in an interview process. Usually an in-person interview follows, if you’re selected to move forward.
      It might be with just one person, or a small number of people. The questions are usually pretty similar, though, and your sister should make sure she has questions ready to ask at the end. She might not be given a ton of time to ask questions, but she should be prepared to ask questions.

    4. irene adler*

      Much good advice. Many of the phone screen interviews I’ve experienced include one or two behavioral questions: “tell me about a time when you had to manage multiple deadlines.” or “how do you prioritize your tasks?” or “tell me about a time when you couldn’t find what you needed to complete your task.”

    6. Cindy*

      Make certain that you take the call from a private location. I made the mistake of taking one in the secondary lobby of my large company and there were a lot of distractions.
      My second mistake was that I tried to write down the questions that were being asked, which made my responses slow and disjointed.
      My third mistake was my answer to a question on diversity in the workplace and I used a positive example of someone who was jewish orthodox and left work early (before sunset) on Fridays and often worked 3rd shift for us on Saturday nights. This resulted in silence on the other end, so I continued on stating that we had some Catholics who preferred not to work on Sundays, and we were fully accommodating. I think they wanted a theoretical answer, not a real world example.

      I agree with others on this chat. Have a cheat sheet in front of you.
      Best of luck!

  59. Wants Green Things*

    It’s been over a year in the making, but I’m finally transferring jobs and offices!

    I’ve been in my role almost 4 years, and while I’ve liked it, I’ve been feeling stagnant for the last year. I asked about the possibility of transferring to a different office last year, but so few people have done that in my company that it got taken all the way up to the CEO!

    And the answer was a no, initially. 2021 was a bad year for us in contract value, and we barely avoided laying people off, let alone justifying new roles. But things really turned around at the beginning of 2022, and by May we had doubled our contract value – so I asked again. I knew at that point I was ready to leave the company if that’s what it took to get new work and finally leave this state.

    It took some back and forth and an unexpected departure of a senior manager, but I finally got my yes! I’m moving into a whole new role, much more technical and with a lot of room for specialization. And it means I get to move back east, out of the heat and dry air and into seasons.

    I honestly didn’t think they’d ever say yes, especially since I’m only the third person to ever ask to transfer and the most junior by far, but upper management has been interested in the idea of mobility of people if it means retaining talent. It means I’m sort of the trial run, the proof of concept, which is… a lot, but right now I don’t care. I’m moving!

  60. Optimistic Prime*

    Resume Question:
    How should I relay something like getting two pay increases in a short time without a title change on my resume? I already have a managerial role and I want to point out that my boss is impressed and likes my work enough to give me merit increases. I feel like anything I come up with sounds cocky when I just want to show how quickly I excelled.

    2. Frank Doyle*

      What about your work made your boss give you raises? Put those accomplishments on your resume, not the fact that they resulted in pay increase.

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I wouldn’t put that on a resume. I get why you want to but it would come off oddly, and might backfire. Sure maybe your work was that good, maybe you badgered your boss for more money, maybe this is an expectation you’re coming into the new job with and you’ll expect raises more quickly than I’m planning to give them. Instead I’d highlight *why* you got those merit increases – what did you do that impressed your boss so much.

    4. EMP*

      I think the best you can do is something like “consistently recognized for outstanding work on XYZ”. Mentioning a bonus explicitly without any kind of performance goal is kind of weird (and it if was for meeting a performance goal you’d just write that)

    5. Librarian of SHIELD*

      I think it’s better not to include anything about your salary on your resume. You want your next employer to pay you what they think your position is worth, not some arbitrary percentage increase on your previous salary. Put down the amazing work you did and the outcomes you achieved.

      1. Optimistic Prime*

        I guess I worded it incorrectly. I was meaning how to a phrase is as like a promotion without the title change. Because that’s essentially what happened. It’s hard to explain in this thing. I dont want to put “I was paid x more cos I’m awesome” but more, I essentially got two promotions but because of the way this company is they didn’t change my title.

        1. Librarian of SHIELD*

          In that case, I think you can say that you received positive performance assessments and were given increased responsibility and authority in your position because of your successes.

  61. noncommittal pseudonym*

    I posted this very late last week, so I’m reposting here with an update.

    Let’s say I supervise the vanilla teapot department and my colleague, M, supervises the chocolate teapot department. I’m full-time and he’s part-time, as the chocolate teapot department is quite a bit smaller. (Note: he retired from the industry we serve, and currently also has a consulting company. I think he took this job as a favor to our great-grandboss, who he has known for years.) We both report to the same boss. We recently got notified of a grant opportunity to improve teapot construction training. The way the grant was worded, it actually applies far more directly to vanilla teapots than chocolate. As I was thinking if I had the bandwidth to tackle the application process, as it had a VERY short turnaround time, M jumped in and said he wanted to submit one. There’s a limit of one per region, so we both couldn’t do it. I said OK, even though it was a bit more in my wheelhouse than his, but I’m not possessive. However, then I was asked by my boss to have the grant in my name, as M can’t submit a proposal on his own, as he’s part-time. OK, again, fine, and I’ll help, but I made it clear that this is M’s baby, he volunteered (I suspect because he’s old friends with our mutual great-grandboss, who brought up the opportunity), and I didn’t.

    Except now, he’s getting all demanding that I figure various things out, e.g., “Hey, NP you need to get me those spout construction estimates by tomorrow”, or “NP, you’re the contact. Figure this out.” Plus, I really dislike several of the decisions that he’s made, one in particular that I think could sink the proposal. I managed to shoot down another particular idea, which was beyond wacky. (Thankfully, grandboss was on the call and backed me. I wish I could figure out how to anonymize the idea sufficiently to share. You’d love it, it was bizarre and staggeringly cost-inefficient.)
    He’s also taken to being demanding and abrupt with a bunch of the support staff, who are extremely good at their jobs and just as extremely busy. I’m copied on the emails, and they make me full-body cringe. I’ve mentioned to my boss that I’m finding him increasingly rude, and got the “He’s extremely stressed about this quick turnaround and trying to get everything done. He’ll stop as soon as the proposal is in.” which is possibly true, but not a real excuse.

    Well, the grant is due today, and M’s entire contribution in the last week has been to email to ask if the grant got submitted in time. It’s still going through the in-house approval process, but I imagine I’ll have to figure out how to get the thing submitted. I think it’s very unlikely to get funded because of some of the decisions M made in the very beginning of the process, but now the stupid thing has my name on it and I’m pissed.

    1. seepy witt*

      Situations like these, I just cross my fingers that the in-house approval process doesn’t get completed in time and let them take the fall. Sorry your name has to be on it, that is SO annoying!

    2. PX*

      I would use this as an opportunity to have some serious words with my manager about M’s role in the company. Ideally you’d have pushed back a lot earlier when M started dropping the ball (because as you say, it sucks that your name is now on this and its going to suck and not even give you what you want) – but sometimes you live and learn.

      But I’d definitely have a retrospective with some very clear “how can we make sure this never happens again” type discussions.

  62. Mothman’s Uber*

    What do you guys do when you keep making little mistakes at work? I feel like I keep missing emails, or misreading documents, or sending wrong information. We all make mistakes now and then, I just feel like I’m making so many lately. I don’t want people to think me incompetent but I don’t know what I can do to get more on top of my work.

    1. We still have work to do here...*

      Are you burned out? Can you take a little break to reset? I feel like when I get in a rut of making a lot of mistakes, it’s because I’m overwhelmed or stressed.

      If it’s not that, is there anyone who can look things over for you, or you can premail information to and as for feedback?

      1. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

        This was my first thought! My mistakes/sloppy work increases when I’m low on sleep, sick, stressed, emotionally/physically exhausted, etc. It’s usually a sign I need to figure out some time-off soon.

    2. LondonLady*

      It’s hard to say without knowing your circumstances, but I would say some combination of
      a) looking after yourself, getting enough sleep, eating well and staying hydrated, eliminating distractions from your workspace
      b) having a filing, prioritisation and reminders system that works for you, there are lots of different ones out there including Cortana/Viva that work with Outlook or the tried and tested Ivy Lee or ‘touch it once’ methods.
      c) if there is a wider problem eg stress at home or sudden change in workload, is there someone you can talk to at work about it? You may get reassurance that your work is fine, or at least get some better support if it’s needed.

    3. AdequateArchaeologist*

      Usually when this happens to me it’s because of stress. Slow down, read things multiple times, and try to write down important notes/times. Then go back later and re-read what you have against what the original email or whatever said at a time when you’re more relaxed or things are going slower.

    4. SereneScientist*

      I really feel this, Mothman. I started to run into this issue a bit towards the end of my last job when I was, frankly, a lot less interested and engaged in the job. Part of that came down to a disconnect between my work and broader impact in the team/organization, part of it was just me needing a change. I can’t say for sure if you’re experiencing this for the same reasons I did, but it’d be worth taking a step back and assessing (on your own or with a trusted friend or mentor) how you feel about your work and current role. This might be a symptom of something more than just inattentiveness.

  63. We still have work to do here...*

    My previous manager is trying to poison our team from “beyond the grave.” They left the organization almost a month ago, but still texts all the members of our team almost daily to get intel on what the leadership is doing now and badmouth them and/or make subtle comments about how current leadership doesn’t care about our team or what we’re doing. I get they were unhappy when they left, and I don’t want to be all Pollyanna with what are some remaining issues. But I’m applying for their position and even if I don’t get it, would like to see our team succeed … and this isn’t helping! Should I say something to my team members about it? Or just assume they see through what the former manager is trying to do and ignore it?

    1. Sherm*

      I bet it’s safe to assume that the manager’s frequent vitriol is not having much effect, except annoying people. If anyone is enjoying the badmouthing, they were probably disgruntled to begin with, rather than being swayed. I don’t think there’s much you can do, unless remind people not to share confidential information, if that applies.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Ignore prior boss.

      And if you’re looking to take the position, keep an eye on anyone who is participating in this – because if you get the job, you are going to have to correct them or fire them.

  64. Melisande*

    I represent my organisation on an industry working group developing and sharing professional resources for our sector. It is not a core part of my job but it has been an enjoyable addition to it, and I’m allowed to use work time on this. Our activities range from organising webinars and conferences to writing briefings on industry policy, very typical of this type of working group.

    We are funded by small contributions from member organisations, they can each send someone to the working group (although they don’t have to) and we don’t get to choose who they send. We are all expected to contribute to the work of the group, we are committed to its purpose, and we generally work well together.

    My question is about handling a relatively new member of the group, ‘Jim’. He volunteers to take on pieces of work, then often ignores the brief or the resources available (eg proposing a website re-design rather than simply updating the content). Sometimes his ideas are good but we don’t have the capacity to deliver them, and sometimes they are actually bad. His response to pushback or amendments is typically, “well I’ve made my contribution, someone else can take it from here” which has caused a lot of frustration and held up some projects.

    Occasionally Jim’s work is brilliant (eg he is a very engaging presenter) but he always seems to be unavailable for the mundane stuff (eg compiling delegate packs). Increasingly I feel he is more a drain than a contributor. Other working group members have begun to share their frustrations about him with me (I am a former chair and current secretary of the group).

    Assuming we are stuck with Jim, any suggestions for how to make this work?

    1. cardigarden*

      Would it be too far from the working group’s current culture to assign work? Instead of hoping he volunteers for delegate pack compiling, can you assign it to him? I run a group like this and in order to avoid dealing with crickets in response to “okay we need a note taker for the meeting, someone please volunteer”, we rotate down the list.

    2. ferrina*

      Ouch, this sounds painful.

      Can you redelegate Jim’s bad ideas? So “Interesting idea! I’ll look into that.” then do 10 minutes of looking, and only follow up if he asks. “Unfortunately, building a new city on the moon wasn’t feasible in this year’s budget. We’ll keep it in mind for future possibilities” (I love the phrase “we’ll keep it in mind”. If it really is a resource issue, you’ll come back to it when you can. If it’s not, then, well, you kept it in mind as something that won’t work). That ways Jim can’t complain that you aren’t taking his ideas seriously, but it’s not monopolizing time.

      I’d also lean on Jim’s skills. If he’s a great presenter, ask if he’d be willing to head some presentations. Pair flattery with responsibility- “that presentation was so engaging. It would be amazing to do a few of those next year. Jim, what does your schedule look like?”

    3. PX*

      Depending on the role of the chair, they might need to have a word with Jim about the roles and responsibilities of people in the group.

      I would also say that just because you dont get to choose who is *sent* to the group, doesnt mean you cant push back. Gently if needed, but a possible escalation might be to go to whoever at Jim’s company is the liasion (or pays the bills at least) and say hey, this guy isnt a valuable contributor to what we do. I know you want to get your moneys worth, maybe find someone else to send?

  65. Life coach/job skills evaluation?*

    How does one find/vet a life coach? Thinking about trying to get a life coach evaluate what I’m good at because I’ve had garbage luck searching for jobs. I was that grad student who graduated last in their class, I’ve got 1 paper published, and a mediocre postdoc where they didn’t ask me to do anything. I’m doing a temp job as a data scientist right now (did a hard sciences PhD with very few applications outside academia) but it’s in a different field and I’m out of my depth. My contract’s almost up and I doubt they’ll hire me full time.

    Other students in my cohort have successfully transitioned to data science jobs but I didn’t. I was hired as a trial contractor for 6 months. I have to start job searching again and I’m scared. How do you search with a crappy resume?

    1. Educator*

      Don’t hire a life coach–hire a career coach, since it sounds like your questions are professional. There are some awful ones out there, but I have had luck with referrals. I started with my university, and they recommended someone. I explained my goals for our work together, and listened to her explanation for how she would help me achieve them. When I liked the answer, I went ahead and scheduled some sessions. It ended up being very helpful to me.

    2. smeep248*

      It sounds like you could use some career coaching and maybe therapy – there is a self-fulling piece to assuming you aren’t good enough or as good as others. You are clearly hard-working and tenacious to have a PhD even if you feel things are “mediocre” so maybe you just need to learn how to cheerlead for yourself a little more.

    3. Generic Name*

      Wait. What makes you think your contract won’t be extended/you won’t be hired? Have they told you that explicitly?

      Also, I’m confused by these two statements:

      -Other students in my cohort have successfully transitioned to data science jobs but I didn’t.
      -I’m doing a temp job as a data scientist right now.

      Sounds like you’re doing a data science job now. It just happens to be a temp contract. That’s not nothing. You’re massively putting yourself down. You have a Ph.D. for crying out loud!! That’s an extreme accomplishment! Something like 3 percent of the U.S. population holds that degree.

  67. Too Much*

    This week, I had enough of my “moonlighting” job and up and gave my notice.

    We’ve been only about 50% staffed for months, but the expectations from higher ups is that we still complete all work that needs to be done, because “it needs to be done.”

    How we were expected to do 100% of the work with 50% of the staff (and overtime not allowed!) is beyond me. Since I worked the second shift, I was constantly getting left with tasks previously done by the morning team and being expected to do them…along with 100% of the second shift duties. My boss only works first shift and so views the tasks that happen during that time as “harder” because in his mind, everything can just be done later.

    Everyone else is also looking to leave too. They say they can’t hire anyone because “no one wants to work these days” (aka, no one wants to work for what they are paying and offering). They are not willing to budge on compensation. They are not willing to budge on what they want done. So.

    I wonder what it will look like when there are literally no more workers there. And the busy season is coming up soon.

    1. CharlieBrown*

      Any time a company says “no one wants to work these days” I immediately do not take anything they do or say seriously. These are often the worst employers out there.

      They get what they deserve.

      1. PollyQ*

        Exactly this. There’s a delightful/aggravating twitter thread (link to follow) that traces the history of “no one wants to work these days.” Suffice it to say, it’s the very opposite of a recent development.

  68. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

    My employer just announced that we’ll be going to unlimited PTO in 2023! It’s a medium sized company with around 5000 employees, and even in current state work/life balance is quite good. They start everyone with 4 weeks of PTO and definitely encourage us to use all of it, so I’m not worried about a situation where its dubbed “unlimited” but no one ever takes time off, it’s definitely not that kind of culture. In fact, they also announced that we’re getting 4 additional holidays next year as well.

    They really haven’t announced any details or the parameters around it, but I’m looking for input from anyone who has or has had it. I’m trying to wrap my head around how it will all work – are there any cons I’m missing? I do know that it is only for salaried/exempt employees, so the hourly/exempt folks are likely going to be upset. I’m guessing you can’t get paid out for PTO if you leave with unlimited?

    Would appreciate your thoughts!

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      “I’m guessing you can’t get paid out for PTO if you leave with unlimited?”

      This is the driving factor for a lot of places. Honestly I don’t see the point in doing it unless that’s the motivation. Like are they going to pay you if you work one day a year? Probably not right? So there are limits. You can say “take as much time off as you want as long as your work gets done” and even that has some hooks in it – work often does get put on hold for PTO but it’s a lot easier to negotiate that if you have a designated PTO bucket as part of your compensation.

      IDK maybe other commenters will disagree but I’ve never heard any scenario where it doesn’t feel like a scam.

      1. PollyQ*

        For places that use a combined sick time/vacation bucket, it can mean that you don’t give up your summer vacation if you get a nasty winter bug. My sister’s employer switched to unlimited PTO a few years ago, and it seems to have worked pretty well for her. I suspect it’s very much dependent on the workplace culture and on a person’s specific manager, though.

        2. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

          We already have combined PTO though. It’s all in one PTO bucket with no sick/vacation time designations.

          1. PollyQ*

            Right, but there used to be a limit, no? And every sick day you took meant fewer vacation days? Now, even though they’re labeled as one bucket, if you take 1 sick day, you have unlimited vacation days, and if you take 10 sick days you still have unlimited vacation days. Sick time & vacation time are essentially uncoupled, as long as there’s reasonable culture & management.

      2. Alex*

        Yes this is my feeling too. I would not be happy with that change–I’d much rather have a generous but defined amount of vacation time that can be monetarily quantified and measured against others’ time off.

        What happens when resentment grows between conscientious people who feel they need to keep up with a certain workload, and those who fly off to New Zealand every month, work be damned? These feels like it can fall easily into an inequitable situation between favored and less favored employees.

        And of course, no, you don’t get vacay paid out if you have none doled out to you as explicit compensation. That is very much the up side for companies for this–unused vacation days earned by employees are seen as a financial liability for them. This erases that liability.

        Caveat, I’ve never worked in a place with unlimited vacation, but my gut reaction if I were faced with this change wouldn’t be positive.

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      My husband’s company made this sort of switch. He had 4 weeks vacation prior to the switch, so he’s continued to work under the assumption that he can take about 4 weeks of vacation now (give or take a day either way), and can take sick time as he needs it. (He doesn’t get sick very often.)

      As you guessed, unlimited PTO means there’s no payout when you leave, and generally you’re responsible for tracking how much time you’ve actually taken. (Depending on how your payroll/time tracking/time off system is set up, things might be weird when switching to unlimited PTO, so doing your own tracking will probably help your peace of mind.)

    3. ferrina*

      Unlimited PTO really depends on your team’s culture. Teams that already don’t take PTO will continue to not take it; teams that are good about taking it will balance it nicely; folks that try to squeeze every moment of PTO will keep doing that.

      I found it relaxing because I could plan vacations without worrying if I’d run out of time. I felt better working extra when I needed to, because I knew I could get the rest time I needed. It’s even better when you have a manager that keeps an eye on PTO and encourages folks to take it. I used to encourage my team to take PTO to recharge before we went into the busy season, and they were really good about taking the time they needed to unplug. It meant they were better rested and more productive when we hit the busy stretch, and it balanced out the long hours.

      And correct, you don’t get paid out for PTO with unlimited PTO policies (that’s a big motivator for companies to switch to unlimited PTO).

      1. Sloanicota*

        Which is always funny to me because I’ve worked at plenty of places that just – don’t pay out PTO. They say they’re not going to and then they don’t. You don’t actually need to switch to unlimited to make that happen.

        1. PollyQ*

          Depends on state law. Some states, including California, require employers to pay out vacation balance for “assigned” days, but not for unlimited days.

    4. EMP*

      I’m pretty neutral on it (I’m exempt, have unlimited PTO at current job, had traditional PTO at oldjob). Our standard policy is up to 2 weeks at a time and you need your manager’s approval, but some people have done longer trips.

      I think it’s down to culture how people actually use it and it sounds like at your place people still will, so that’s great. I tend to use a decent chunk of PTO just in single days here and there while my coworkers are more, save it for 3 weeks of summer vacation.

      One pro for new hires is if you’re coming from a longer tenure at another office you don’t need to worry about/negotiating starting from scratch again with PTO accumulation.

      As several people said, there’s no payout when you leave. You at once have all the PTO and zero PTO, depending on which is more convenient for the company.

    5. Parenthesis Dude*

      I’ve had it.

      You can’t get paid out for PTO if it’s unlimited. In addition, they’ll limit how much you can take at one time. So, you can’t take three weeks off straight without permission from a few people (but if that’s all the PTO you’re taking for the year, reasonable people will be reasonable). You may not be able to take two two-week vacations within a month of each other.

      If you’re doing your job, it works pretty well. I didn’t abuse it, and my boss was pretty cool, so it worked great for us.

    6. Margali*

      At my company, only the high-level salaried folks have unlimited PTO. The offer letter includes a statement of how much people usually take, so the new employee has an idea of what is considered reasonable, but knows that they don’t have to keep track down to the minute. Also, it allows those folks to take a longer vacation sooner than those of us who need to earn the PTO first.

    7. Tangerine Dreams*

      I like mine fine and time off is taken fairly liberally at my company. If your company is already good about it, that won’t change.

      Ours is “take what you need” and not “unlimited” — feels weasel-y but I get it. It means I can max out what I think is reasonable for vacations, without feeling like I have to conserve time just in case of illness or emergency. I did watch closely for my first 6 months to make sure I was calibrating correctly, as well as talk to my boss about their expectations. We loosely agreed on baseline of regular, planned vacation weeks then the “what you need” becomes all the sick days, emergencies, and extended time for special occasions/events. We still have to formally request PTO and we are asked to work around our project demands, but it’s pretty much always granted.

  69. JustaTech*

    Question about how to access important HR stuff when out on extended leave:

    I’ll be going out on maternity leave in a few months and I’m trying to get all the leave paperwork organized now, because it is complicated and our HR person is new (to us and to my state, which has some extra laws about maternity leave). Part of going on leave is about submitting a bunch of stuff to an outside company that handles short-term disability, and before you can return to work you need a form from your doctor saying you’re cleared to go back to work. OK, so far so good, except that as part of going on leave of absence all of your access to company stuff is cut off. No email, no Teams, you can’t log in to the network.

    But as far as I can tell, the primary way to access things like the STD company and our health insurance and FSA/HSA is through the company’s link to ADP (which I know for a fact doesn’t work when I log in through my personal computer).

    So, do I just change the email address for all of that stuff to my personal address, and then write down a list of everyone’s phone numbers and emails so I can email from my personal email when I’m ready to come back? And just hope that this HR person doesn’t quit in the meantime?
    (I totally understand why they want to make sure that people who are on leave aren’t working, both for legal/finance reasons and to keep from being pestered by people who don’t respect “on leave”.)

    (While I’m at it, is there anything folks would recommend I do before I go on leave, besides write up as many “how to” guides as I can and clean off my desk?)

    1. Not Working Out*

      My leave also went through a different company and I was able to change my email in that account to my personal email. Make sure HR has that information too? I still got emails at work from my HR, but I didn’t have access cut off. I think doing that and writing down names/numbers you need would be the best option. Is there someone who’s gone through this recently that you can talk to?

      Some how-to guides, make sure people know who’s handling your work while you’re gone, and an out-of-office message ready to go.

    2. PollyQ*

      Talk to your HR person now–it’s their job to help you navigate this stuff. There will probably be a way to access your STD without going through your employer once you’re on it, and I would expect there’d be something for the FSA/HSA as well.

  70. Tired and ready to quit*

    I have been in my current field and employer for about 7 years and current position just under a year. I’m at a point where I feel like I need to move onto something different because the pandemic burned me out and has caused so much turnover that it feels impossible to get things done at my organization. I really want to just give two weeks and take some time off to rest/reset before whatever comes next, but I don’t want to burn bridges with my employer either. Fortunately, I’m certain I can financially manage being unemployed for an extended period.

    Has anyone quit with nothing lined up and had a very positive or negative experience? Any advice?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      No personal experience, but these past posts may help:

      “how to explain to interviewers why I quit my job without another one lined up” from July 30, 2015

      “a happy ending: I quit my job without another one lined up” from December 30, 2021

      I’ll put links in a follow-up comment.

    2. Nathalie*

      I moved to a different state a few years back and my company at the time allowed me to stay on working remotely while I searched for something local. Job searching in my new state wasn’t going well and I found it hard to really put the effort in as long as I knew I could stay in my hated but familiar role indefinitely, so I ended up leaving before I had something new lined up (I found the Friends episode where Rachel quits Central Perk so she has “the fear” inspiring).

      The day after I gave notice I was contacted about a part time temp job which I ended up getting and working for a few months before finding something full time, so things worked out really well for me. It strained my finances for a few months since the temp job paid practically nothing but getting out of a job I couldn’t stand and that was burning me out was so good for my mental health and gave me the motivation I needed to really focus on my job search.

      Since you’re in a good financial position I think you should definitely leave your job now and get your rest/reset. Getting away from the daily stress and also the uncertainty of whether you’re going to stay or leave will be so good for you, I guarantee. Another plus side of leaving your current job before applying other places is that you can use people from that job as references without worrying it will affect your employment!

    3. Sloanicota*

      So, I wanted to do this a few jobs ago and my parents begged me not to; they (rightfully or wrongfully) felt sure it would take me a lot longer than I thought to get a new job, and because I’m single I wouldn’t just be able to use my spouse’s insurance or have a backup income. I really wanted to do it because I was already burned out, and trying to job search on top of burnout just left me feeling extremely meh about everything. I decided they were right because it took me over a year to get that job, so I hung in there. I was immediately burned out at my new job and only lasted a year. I wonder what might have happened if I’d gone my own way and taken more time … we’ll never know.

      1. Tired and ready to quit*

        Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience. I’m kind of in a similar position as you were in terms of burning out within a year of a new position. I was promoted and changed teams last year because I badly needed to leave my last job, had no down time in between roles, had a team member go on leave less than 2 months in, and then had a bunch of life things happen. (A big deterrent for me too is the thought of dealing with the response of my family to quitting without anything lined up… thanks again for the perspective.)

  71. Goose*

    Did a DISC assessment with my team and kind of loved it? It put a lot things into perspective and it’s helping my team break down personality challenges better than we have before. I don’t usually like “horoscopes for the workplace” but I’ve bought into this. Has anyone else had success with things like this or do you find them too “woo?”

    1. introverted af*

      One of the things that was helpful at my college job was using the StrengthsQuest with RAs in dorms. The staff in each building would discuss broad trends as a group, and talk about ways you can learn from or lean on other staff in their areas of strength. It helped highlight the skills and value that new staff brought to the team instead of just encouraging reliance on ‘senior’ RAs who had at least 1 year under their belts. It also helped to think about, which of the supervisors has which strengths that maybe I can ask about specific types of problems I’m having, even if they’re not my direct supervisor. I think it was also helpful for the supervisors and building director to have a scope of the skills of their team to know areas of strengths and weaknesses to be aware of or coach on.

    2. Anon for this one*

      I have used DiSC in several jobs and in different areas for quite a long time and I think as long as folks understand that it’s to understand POTENTIAL conflicts, ways of communication and thinking, and weaknesses in those communication areas. I do think it gives very helpful advice on understanding how personalities can better communicate. As with all assessments, whether Meyers-Briggs, DiSC, Strengthfinders (which are all measuring different things), it is all in how it is used, and gets very dicey when employment decisions are made with this data.

    3. Nathalie*

      I think DiSC is more effective than other personality test type assessments because it’s geared toward the workplace specifically and it offers actual, actionable insights on how to interact better with other types (at least the DiSC things I’ve done have offered this). I used to fall into the trap of thinking my communication style was good and correct and other people’s were weird and bad, but thinking about them as just different categories without value judgments has made my work relationships less frustrating for sure.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        Totally agree with you Nathalie. I have found DiSC to be super helpful in the workplace and helped make everyone more tolerant of other styles/types.

    4. seepy witt*

      I’ve done both DISC and DISC for leaders. Out of all of the workplace personality assessments, I thought it was the most accurate, or at least the most constructively useful.

      I think it’s a fun tool for team building as long as everyone takes it with a grain of salt and doesn’t let it influence things like promotions, rewards, assignments, etc. Using it as a launching pad for conversations about communications and letting the team speak to their personal experiences is fair, which it sounds like is what you’ve done.

  72. Emily Elizabeth*

    People who have wonderful management: what, if anything, during your interview process did they do that gave you a good feeling, and how has that shown up for you in practice? Unhappiness with my current workplace’s management is a driving factor in wanting to leave, and I would love to end up in a place with a manager that is supportive, helpful, and competent at their own job. What does that look like in the interview process?

    1. Sunshine*

      I don’t remember exactly how it came about, but I just remember the interview really feeling like more of a conversation than Q&A – the woman who would turn out to be my manager and I were brainstorming ideas and just generally talking about what things we could accomplish together. It felt like she was really excited about me and vice versa. In practice, that did turn into a huge amount of mutual trust, respect, and support once I was hired!

    2. Cendol*

      I’m a socially anxious trainwreck at the best of times, but I remember the interview with my first manager feeling like a very comfortable, natural conversation. I was entry level and came away from the interview feeling like this was someone I would be eager to work with and learn from.

    3. The teapots are on fire*

      When I interviewed for my role, the HR rep had not given me an accurate interview schedule and so I was scheduled to fly out before the end of my interview day. My manager and the person who became my manager afterwards combined their two interview slots, answered my questions as quickly and efficiently as they could, and gave me an annotated map to drive back to the airport. They were completely lovely about the whole thing.

  73. Woeful Empress*

    I am, I believe, very close to receiving an offer for a job I’m really excited about! I’ve had four rounds of interviews, most recently with the CMO, and HR has provided me with information about the benefits, so all is looking good so far.

    Before I can accept an offer, should I receive one, I need to know if the new company’s insurance will cover a medication that I am on. It’s a specialty med for a rare, chronic form of cancer. My condition is very well managed, I’m not going to die from it, and I am perfectly normal. As long as I keep taking this medicine.

    I don’t want to alert HR or anyone else that I take this medication, as is it extremely expensive, and I think could prevent me from receiving an offer. However, I tried calling the company’s insurance provider to see if my medication is covered, and they couldn’t tell me, because I’m not a member or an employee. What else should I try doing? If I lose my current insurance by taking this job, and they don’t cover my medication, it would be really, really bad.

    1. AnonHealthCheck*

      I have been in this boat, and, after I got an offer but before I accepted, I asked HR to connect me directly with a rep from the insurance company. I told HR that I needed to verify a specific type of coverage–not what that coverage was or even that it was for me–and they were able to provide a number/contact for someone who could help me without a member number. This was a deal breaker for me, so I just politely insisted on talking directly with the insurer until I got my answer, and it all ended up working out.

    2. Yes, but*

      Not to throw a wrench.
      I did exactly this as my medication for my chronic condition is super expensive and often not in the formulary.
      When I was hired it was covered.
      Three years later the organization switched providers. Every three months the prescription is denied, hours on the phone, “have you tried x, y, z?”

      I finally was able to coordinate the doctor (letters stating this is the ONLY medication for my condition) the insurance company, AND HR. For the last years, no problem.

  74. Bunny Girl*

    For anyone that wants to get the new Omicron variant shot – I definitely recommend taking the day after off work or scheduling it for your time off. I got mine after work on Thursday and felt fine until 10am the next morning when I suddenly felt like I had been hit by a truck.

    1. Ask a Manager* Post author

      This ended up generating lots of medical advice and going way off-topic from work issues and I’ve had to remove some misinformation, so I’m removing and closing this thread.

  75. WellRed*

    Did anyone see the recent article about how Scotland decided to hire a period officer? And they hired a dude? Needless to say, that caused a fuss and the position has been scrapped.

      1. WellRed*

        It was along the lines of awareness of the the period act in schools and such and ensuring funding was allocated properly. I didn’t think he seemed unqualified on paper, but come on.

    3. PollyQ*

      Yes, I saw it, and it wasn’t all of Scotland, it was (more or less) a single “county” that hired him. I (a woman) had mixed feelings about it. OTOH, women’s health should be everyone’s concern, and lord knows, getting men to be less hysterically grossed out by periods would be a great thing, so a man in the position wasn’t necessarily a terrible thing. OTOH, this particular dude didn’t seem to have any relevant experience whatsoever, and it was hard not to be angry that someone with a uterus couldn’t even get hired for a uterus-related position. I also strongly suspect that it was a nepotism/buddy-buddy hire, rather than anyone taking the position seriously and believing that this dude was the best choice for the role.

      1. London Calling*

        *I also strongly suspect that it was a nepotism/buddy-buddy hire, rather than anyone taking the position seriously and believing that this dude was the best choice for the role.*

        And you aren’t alone in suspecting that. Ironically he’s now suing for unfair dismissal on the grounds that he’s being discriminated against because he’s a man. Funny how that didn’t bother him when it was the other way around.

  76. Free Meerkats*

    Yesterday I returned from my extended vacation (2 1/2 weeks) where I was able to visit friends and family; 5200 miles in 11 days’ driving time including the top of Pike’s Peak. I came back to find out the workday after I left, an assignment that I had to do came down with a deadline of today. {shrug}

    Also, the one qualified candidate for replacing me removed himself from the hiring process; glad he didn’t just ghost us. Then today, got another application from someone who looks qualified and we are moving forward with interviews.

    How is your Friday going?

    1. Nicki Name*

      I have not been injured by any of my cats during any of my meetings today, which is not something I’ve been able to say every day this week.

      (It was accidental, I’m fine, the cat is fine too.)

    2. CindyHangingInThere*

      I made the decision last week that I was too stressed from work and all the personal issues I’ve had since moving to this city 7+ years ago that I needed to take 6 weeks Leave Without Pay (I even sent emails to my multiple bosses that I was going to start 6 wees off after this week). I even went to my GP on Monday and he wrote a prescription stating that I needed 6 weeks off. Late on Monday I rethought the issue and Tuesday I applied for intermittent FMLA (who knew that you could take FMLA for yourself?). They’re allocating a certain number of hours over a 6 month period for me to take and get myself de-stressed. My plan is to start by working 2 days per week and move up from there as I feel better. The plus on FMLA is that I’ll still be on the company insurance, where if I took Leave I’d have to pay for 6 weeks of Cobra.
      So I essentially didn’t work Tue/Wed/Thu this week, and today I was in the office for a full day with No Stress and No Anxiety.
      Monday I’ll take the form for FMLA to my GP and get it signed, and make some more phone calls to find a therapist.

  77. TechWorker*

    I’ve been set a task to work with a colleague who I’ve never worked with before and am finding it tough. We were paired up because we both had ‘good points’ in a group discussion, but we are approaching the problem from VERY different angles and I don’t really know how to get this into a presentation that makes sense.
    This person is v senior technically, has a lot more experience than me, but I am a senior-ish mgr so we are not actually that different in terms of seniority. In the meeting we had they:
    – had a lot of strong opinions, I disagreed with about 30% of what they said (the thing we’re presenting on has technical and management aspects, they definitely are strong on the former and weak on the latter)
    – just talked a lot I could barely get a word in
    – repeatedly used ‘he’ for ‘generic engineer’. I didn’t raise it in the moment but it’s a good way to generally piss me off a bit (I am a woman, I am the only woman in the group of ~15 this presentation will be presented to).
    – said things like ‘anyone can come up with a list of actionable items, what we really need is how we’re going to choose those items and check them going forwards’ which like, yes ok, but realistically my useful input here is that I understand the problem and have a good idea of what the actionable items are; so felt a bit like ‘your input is uselessly low level’.

    I don’t even know where the question is in there (sorry!) but two specific points I guess:
    1) should I push to get my input included if it means an argument to get there?
    2) should I call out the ‘using he as default’

    I don’t normally have any problems working with technical folks (I am also ‘technical’ it’s part of my job) but I’ve never been in a meeting where I disagreed quite so much with how things were framed as this, and it threw me quite a lot!

    1. BellyButton*

      My approach is to start breaking down the presentation by – who is the audience-identify each group- tech, decision maker, influencer, finance, what do each of those people need to know, and what is the ask/next steps. Every single slide should be attacked that way. This gets you, hopefully, closer to being on the same page. If they argue for more technical things than you think is necessary, a good compromise is to put the in-depth tech stuff on the next hidden slide, so that if it is asked for or going to be used to reference by the audience later they can view that information.

      1. TechWorker*

        Thank you! I do think trying to focus on audience will make things easier (his viewpoint is a weird mix of pureist and extreme cynic). It’s hard to explain without saying exactly what we’re doing, but it’s not that I’m objecting to technical content, more that I think some of his conclusions ignore the people aspect (his starting point is ‘we can solve this problem because its equivalent to the technical problem blah’ and I just… disagree?). But that’s fine, I think the audience will disagree too so perhaps if I focus more on what we want to communicate vs what our own opinions are we will get further.

        (Ramble ramble, basically – yes that is a better approach – thank you!)

    2. EMP*

      it’s a small thing but as a female engineer I notice if the pronouns are all “he”. Please ask to change it!

      1. TechWorker*

        Yea it really grates on me too (& honestly means I stop listening to the rest of it a bit because it annoys me!). Just need to get better at saying it in the moment :( this colleague definitely intimidates me a bit.

  78. Lembas Bread*

    I am expecting a promotion soon. Based on my previous history with my company and prior promotions I expect the initial raise that I’m offered to be a pretty small percentage increase on my current salary. I intend to negotiate and ask for more money. Due to the nature of my position, I have knowledge of what people in my new role make. Can I use this information in my negotiation? If so, what’s the best way to approach it?

      1. Lembas Bread*

        I don’t know the full range but I do know the average, as well as the specific salaries of some specific people at the lowest end. Can I just say “I know the average is X and I expect to make at least Y (and quote salary below average and near the low end)”

        1. TechWorker*

          Yes, if you have information you are allowed to use it!

          I recently asked (actually after the promotion) for a significant pay rise. I basically said ‘I’m not being paid in line with my responsibilities’ and named a figure that I knew from talking to a colleague was ‘acceptable’ for the grade. In the end I didn’t have to argue ‘this is the right pay range for this grade’ (they knew that!! Your boss will know that too!) just that I was underpaid. But knowing the range really helped *me* in that I knew what I was asking for was reasonable and within their agreed pay scale. Good luck!

  79. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

    I’ll be upfront – I’m not sure how much advice/help the commentariat may have for me. But it’s worth a shot.

    I’ve posted before about my toxic team (especially boss) and how I’ve definitely recognized that Boss will never change. While I am in the process of finding employment elsewhere, I do not have any offers yet. But each day it feels like something else/something worse happens and I am getting closer and closer to my breaking point and/or leaving in a blaze of righteous fury. Which is not really possible due to my financial situation and the fact that it would really be much better to preserve the reference for down the road.

    So my question is then this: any advice for how to take the emotions (anger/sadness for myself and colleagues and the communities we serve) from my job? How can I keep showing up and delivering what I can when Boss is actively sabotaging our work due to Boss’s disorganization and messy feelings? Any mantras for when Boss makes coworkers’ current personal tragedies about Boss’s own issues? (Last week Coworker unexpectedly lost a parent in a car accident and yesterday Boss asked us all to reflect on the tragedy of loss, which Boss understands because Boss’s grandmother died of cancer ten years ago. And I just can’t cope.)

      1. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

        Thanks for the reminder that I really should prioritize finding a new therapist – to be honest I forget it’s something that can help with “regular stressors” rather than just my (now well-managed) PTSD and anxiety.

        And maybe today is a day to haul out my pedaler and just go to town this evening, LOL.

        1. ThatGirl*

          yeah, it’s easy to think of as just for “serious mental health crisis” but therapy is great for everyday stress too!

          I do also think anything physical is good for kinda getting out of your own head. Good luck and may your job search be short.

          1. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

            Thank you. I’m trying to keep my eyes on the road ahead (filled with new and better things I am working towards) but messages like yesterday’s make it feel so much harder.

    2. Lady_Lessa*

      Not sure if it would work for you, can you find something physical to do outside of work. I’m thinking of inanimate stuff that needs to be destroyed such as chopping wood or tearing down a old shack?

      1. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

        I’m recovering from surgery right now, so the physical options are a bit limited. But on the otherhand I’ve been getting lots of deliveries, so maybe I won’t be quite as perfunctory in breaking down my cardboard. It’s worth a shot.

        Completely unrelated – but is your username at all related to Anne McCaffrey’s Pern books??? HUGE fan right here, lol.

    3. PollyQ*

      Advice I’ve seen before: Pretend you’re an anthropologist and your office is the culture you’re studying. Try to take anything that’s aggravating and turn your internal response into, “Hmmm, that’s an interesting behavior.”

      Not that there’s anything that’s unreasonable about your emotions in reaction to this stuff! But it’s not helping you or anyone else to get this worked up, and you know you’re on short time, so best to try to detach as much as possible.

      1. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

        I’ve not heard of this before, but I like it. I may try combining it with ThatGirl’s advice and do a pseudo-science journal of the office just to unpack it from my brain and set it aside. Thank you!

    4. Kay*

      Finding a way to change the framing in your mind is key. What will help you just.. not care?

      Every time your boss does something obnoxious can you just mentally think “yup – definitely a dumpster fire up in here, I best check XYZ job board when I get home”, “Oooo – did he just outdirtbag yesterdays maneuver? Why yes he did. What else you got in store for us there buddy? Thats all you’ve got – darn, guess I best get back to work then” or even just reminding yourself these people are truly bizarre specimens (similar to the anthropologist suggestion).

      I’ve found once I can step back and categorize something as so bizarrely unreasonable I best mentally distance myself, it is much easier to remove the emotion and let things just roll off.

      1. allathian*

        Yes, looking at your manager’s odd behavior as if you were an anthropologist studying a foreign culture could help with keeping an appropriate emotional distance.

        I hope you find a new job soon, Ms. Hagrid!

  80. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

    On a different note, while I don’t have an offer yet I have a very promising interview scheduled and received info on that company’s benefit structure and package. Including their PTO.

    Promising Company (PC) uses one bucket of PTO for annual leave and sick leave and give X days a year to start. Current Employer gives me X days of sick and X days of annual leave, so effectively I would be losing half of my PTO annually if I work for PC.

    Any advice on how to raise this if we get to negotiations? It seems like PC is pretty rigid in structure, and I’d be shifting industries but many of the job responsibilities/skills translate well. Is this a case where I could advocate for coming in at a higher tier on their accrual ladder? Or for just an extra Y days a year (where Y is somewhere between 3 and 6)? Does the fact that they sent me their accrual table as part of the pre-interview materials indicate that this is NOT something they negotiate on?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I successfully negotiated for more vacation time (I asked for the new company to match the amount of vacation time my previous company gave me–what they initially offered was lower). Both companies have separate sick and vacation buckets in my case, but I think it is worth at least asking in your situation.

      1. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

        That’s good to know! I’ve been leaning towards they loose framing of “I noticed your PTO structure and accrual in the materials you sent before and wondered if that benefit may be negotiable? In my current role, we have separate annual and sick leaves and with your structure I would be losing [number] days of leave yearly.”

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I don’t think them sending it in advance means it’s non-negotiable, I think it means they want you to take a look at it and start thinking about if it’s acceptable to you or questions you might have about it. If you get to the negotiation stage, you should absolutely raise it. It seems like either option you laid out could be okay, although coming in at a higher tier certainly could have residual benefits that just starting out with more hours in your bucket wouldn’t. How strongly you feel about it is up to you, and how many years of work experience you have to start with (and the time of year you are starting, given obviously people want to take time off around December and if you’re new, you’d be in a dilemma about leave).

      1. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

        Thanks for that framing! It’s good to know that just having the materials doesn’t mean the door is absolutely closed. I’ve never actually negotiated salary or benefits before, just always taken what was offered because it was such a big step up from what I had. Definitely some food for thought as I cross my fingers and toes that an offer will arrive soon.

  81. N'Moose*

    Does anyone have any experience with alternatives to Thompson Tees?

    I work in a toasty location, run around in the heat often, yet still have to dress professionally so I generally wear a sportcoat over a Thomspson Tee, but the quality on their shirts is so poor I am looking for something better. Thompson Tees pill after a few wears and you can see where my seatbelt fall, among other issues. I am looking for something with similar absorbency as I can easily sweat through one in a few hours, so alternatives with less absorbency like Numi aren’t really an option.

    The more sustainable and durable the better, and professional enough to be able to wear under a blazer is what I am looking for.

    1. Reba*

      You might try buying dress/garments shields aka suit and dress liners, so that way you can sew or pin them into regular, better quality shirts of your choice. You can get them at sewing suppliers like Joanne. The Kleinerts brand has different colors and thicknesses.

      My tip is to sew the tiny safety pins they come with to the liner itself, so you don’t drop them a million times while getting them into the shirt.

  82. LizB*

    In the near future I’m going to be training a fellow office admin (an addition to my team, yay!!!!!). We do our phones through Microsoft Teams. Does anyone here have experience with best practices on training someone to do phone calls (think like, customer service/call center type phone work) using that system? It looks like there isn’t really a way to have them listen in on my calls or let me listen in on theirs, at least not remotely. We could plan to be in the same physical place but it’d be nice if w didn’t have to. Any ideas?

    1. CharlieBrown*

      With Microsoft Teams, you can add someone to a chat. I’m not sure if that’s possible with a phone call.

      *******

      Okay, it turns out that it is. If you google “microsoft teams add someone to phone call” the first link should show you how. Link in a follow-up comment.

    2. Em*

      Hi!

      My entire job is training call centre workers over Teams, including shadowing and whatnot. Are your calls coming in via computer or via telephone lines?

      1. Em*

        Oh, wait, you said your phones are through Teams. Sorry, end of the last long day of a long week.

        Screensharing is very useful. Having m,ultiple screens so that the more experienced person can use a chat window to coach the less-experienced person through calls is very useful.

        Test it ahead of time so you know exactly who the client can hear, and if the client can hear both of you, make very very sure someone’s microphone is on mute.

        Take extra time between calls to go over things. Anything crucial (“you’ve booked the client into a hotel in Salem, Oregon, they wanted the one in Massachussetts!”) is grounds for interrupting, but non-crucial stuff (“hey, if you put someone on hold, don’t forget to thank them for waiting when you come back”) can wait until afterwards; for the etiquette stuff, give them one thing at a time to work on rather than snowing them under with advice because that’ll just make them very stressed and they’ll forget all the things they DO know.

  83. :(*

    My team is being dissolved and I am being moved to a new team. I am struggling a bit with this, it seems as though my pet projects are being given to other members of my new team and the new tasks I am assigned aren’t interesting. My new manager’s style is exactly the opposite to my former manager, but I really enjoyed former manager’s way of approaching things and we got along well. (She’s now left the company)

    In short, I feel down and a bit lost after every meeting and I am not enjoying work anymore. I’m losing motivation, creativity and spark. Does anyone have any recommendations for adapting to big changes at work when these changes just make you sad?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Honestly, I’d be job hunting. It sounds like most of the things that kept you engaged at work are gone.

      If that’s not an option, can you invest a little time in getting your groove back? Your pet projects have been reassigned – can you pick up new pet projects? Do you really dislike your new manager or is her style just not what you’re used to? Can you work on reframing your thinking there? What do you like about your new assignments? How do you get along with the rest of your team?

      I hope you can find some happiness in your new team, because even if you do decide to job hunt it’s no good to be miserable the whole time you do so. But also think about what’s best for you in the long term.

      1. The Real Fran Fine*

        I’m right there with you – I’d leave under these circumstances. OP, is it possible to reach out to your old manager and ask her where she went? Maybe she could put in a good word for you someplace else.

  84. Haven’t Chosen a Name Yet*

    After nearly 10 years of working remote with very minimal travel, I’m interviewing for a job that would include international travel at least once a month. What kind of premium should I add to my existing salary requirement? The posted range is very healthy and would support a bump, but I’m at a loss for how to value the time and energy involved in travel. TIA!

    1. The Person from the Resume*

      That is quite personal. I’m pretty sure there’s no number high enough to make it worth my while, but I am over travel and will be happy if I never have to travel for work again. Much less internationally. I’m in the US; International flights are like a full day/8+ hours of travel. Doing that twice a month every month would be a deal breaker for me.

      1. OP*

        I felt the same way until recently. I’m drawn to the international exposure and a few other aspects of the job that would make the travel worth the extra effort.

    2. Sloanicota*

      It varies, but for me I wouldn’t want to go back to a high-level job without a LOT of extra money. I found that I was constantly collecting new charges that my job didn’t cover, like more wear and tear on my personal items (clothing damaged, suitcases, supplies I had bought) and weird freak things that weren’t their fault but always came back on me – messed up the parking and got tickets, was pulled over driving in an unfamiliar cities, needed to get internet for personal reasons so ended up paying etc. Plus, my own nights and weekends were spent dealing with flight delays, early morning travel, etc etc. Some people truly love travel but I found it draining.

    3. WellRed*

      I can’t answer your specific question but one thing I’d want to know is, how is travel handled? Do you have a corporate card? Do they cover everything and how? Do you have to fly cheapest flights and share rooms or do they understand how important it is to not nickel and dime you!

      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah this is a great point. Travel is demanding and it requires a more understanding approach from the higher ups – they’re going to make it intolerable for you otherwise. They need to be generous and flexible with you since I guarantee you’ll have to be generous and flexible with them.

      2. OP*

        I immediately asked whether I would have a corporate card and got that detail confirmed. There’s no way I would float international travel expenses for an employer. The recruiter couldn’t offer much more detail beyond that, so I’ll definitely be asking more questions. I’ve never had a large corporation ask me to share a room, but I’ve definitely had them require layover flights and less-than-great hotels to save money, so I’ll need to tactfully ask about these kinds of things.

        1. Kay*

          This might seem obvious – but for flights it isn’t just the layover/odd times, but are they going to fly you British Airlines business class or make you take a middle economy seat on Spirit? Where are you going to be traveling to? There is a big difference between being stuck in economy for 4 hours vs 24 hours. If you would be traveling long distances – how do you handle jetlag and would they let you take some time to recover from that?

          Also, you mentioned exposure – are you talking about exposure to the destination? If so, is your employer going to be willing to let you take some time to sightsee if you want? Are they going to expect you to have a pretty packed schedule? These things impact people very differently.

          Calculate what your costs will be for whatever travel they are anticipating. Are you going to have to hire a specialized orchid care expert to come take care of your rare collection while you are away for a week a few times a month, pet sitter, personal trainer to keep your health on the right track, etc?

          For me I would probably be willing to take a pay cut for a company willing to fly me comfortably, allow me to take time to enjoy the area, and was flexible if I needed some extra rest. Now, if they were going to be flying me to Siberia at minimum once a month for a week each time there would need to be an extraordinary bump in pay. So, not much help in the way of figures, but so much would depend on what you find the benefits of this travel/exposure to be.

    4. Angstrom*

      I’d want clarification on “at least once a month”, and what happens if the percentage of travel time increases. One international trip from the US is easily 3 days. Personally, I found 25% travel was manageable but 50% travel was not sustainable.
      Humane travel policies make a big difference. I was fortunate to have a boss who approved staying at (usually expensive)on-airport hotels for early departures or late arrivals so we didn’t have to drive while sleep-deprived.

      1. Sloanicota*

        I’ve also had jobs that probably averaged out to once a month, but in fact were six months of weekly travel and six months of staying at home. That affected me differently (I’m not sure which one would be preferable) so it’s good to get as much info as you can.

      2. OP*

        That’s such a great point about staying at airport hotels! I’ve had Fortune 100 employers cheap out on those kinds of things for domestic travel, and they would make a huge difference for international travel.

    5. PX*

      In addition to salary requirement, think of vacation allotment or how they manage travel time. One of my previous companies would give you a vacation day if you had to travel on a weekend or public holiday which was a really great compensation I thought, but not everywhere does this. Definitely be mindful of the fact that this might eat into your weekends quite a bit, so think about how you would want to be compensated for that.

      Similarly, are you allowed to accrue points for yourself or do they have to go to the company? This is one thing that can help where even if you have to travel economy for instance, if you can keep your points, that means eventually you get enough status to possibly be bumped to the nicer seats or get hotel rooms upgraded (which ofcourse also benefits you personally). Any company which is stingy enough to say that points belong to the company (places like this exist!) should be avoided I would say.

      But yes, definitely ask about the travel policy and nickel and diming you. Particularly for things like flight times as well. If they will refuse you taking a 10 am vs 6am flight because it costs $100 extra (but being at an airport for 6am sucks) then you dont want it.

      Also, how much is covered while travelling? All food/drink? Is it a per diem? Taxis or are you expected to take public transport everywhere? All these can really matter, especially if you are somewhere unfamiliar, so definitely ask to see the travel policy before accepting anything (or talk to someone who knows it in detail/has been there for a while).

  85. North Wind*

    Thoughts on this situation?

    I sent a proposal to a listed project to spearhead the re-design and technical build of a report. I had an initial interview with the potential client and she got in touch with the references I provided. She let me know sometime later the project was on hold, but she’d be in touch when they resumed looking for a resource.

    It’s now about 2 months later, and the potential client sent a very nice note saying I was a strong candidate, but they decided to go with a consulting firm who specifically did work in their area; it was nice to meet me and maybe they’d be in touch for future projects. I’ll reply to thank her for letting me know and wish her well with her project, but…

    Would it be weird or boundary-pushing to say she can feel free to reach out if they need help with some technical implementation aspect of the project? She may think I’d find it off-putting to be offered a small part of the project down the line when I wasn’t awarded the whole project, but I’m not bothered. I know from experience that the consulting firms who are good at the strategy aspect of designing the report can’t necessarily make their designs work in the software the client uses, and that is my wheelhouse. (Not that I’d say all that, just generally offer I’d be open to helping with technical aspects of the implementation).

    1. Anon for this one*

      Not weird! Very appropriate to anticipate further needs for the project and indicate your interest in helping out if they need it. IMHO consultants *have* to have a little bit of hustle to keep your name in the hat.

    2. SereneScientist*

      Agreed with the other responder, not weird at all! These days, implementation of technical stuff can really be an all-hands on deck sort of situation and your client, I imagine, will be grateful to know what resources are available to her!

  86. Allison S*

    I’m currently on a medical leave for stress and burnout, but have started thinking about what needs to change when I go back. I work in mental health in a school system. I was burnt out because of the high demand for my services and overscheduling and lack of support from my manager.

    My entire team has expressed similar thoughts before I left (one had a breakdown in a staff meeting and another is on a reduced schedule, looking into going on a stress leave as well). Clearly this is a problems for more than just me.

    I’m wondering how I can change things when I go back. The biggest source of stress for me was not having time to prep, because my manager would overbook me. I was teaching all morning at one school, then driving across town to another school to teach all afternoon, with about 20 minutes in between the two (which was just enough time for the drive). On days when I wasn’t in a classroom, I was teaching professional learning classes. All of this was scheduled by my manager, with no input from me.

    I tried putting prep time in my calendar, but my manager still schedules me during those times. She always says I need to take time for myself, and says she’s concerned about me being too stressed, but then she does this anyway.

    I guess I’m looking for suggestions on how to tell my manager (politely) to back off and respect the schedule I set. Or any other ways I can manage a too intense schedule and enforce boundaries.

    1. seepy witt*

      Look at it this way, clear IS kind. “Manager, now that I’m coming back from leave, we need to discuss what needs to happen to avoid this in the future. I need X time per day for prep. I block that time off in my calendar, and I need you to respect that and not schedule me over it. If something comes up and you need me to be flexible, I need you to call me and discuss it first.”

      If she’s scheduling you that much, I would think the threat of losing you either to more leave or to quitting would be enough to figure out a way to make it work.

    2. Kay*

      Have you ever just said “This won’t work”, “I can’t do that” or “I won’t be able to get there until X time (to account for your prep time)”?

      I’ve had good success with telling people what the options are – for example – if the 10am meeting can be pushed to 10:30 then I make the 9am, otherwise the 9 needs be moved to 11:30 – and if you want me to take a 12:30 you will need to prep all the meeting materials and have them delivered to me. Also, have you tried just saying you can’t make it – what would they do if you got a flat tire on your drive?

      1. Allison S*

        I’m really bad at saying no (it’s something I’m working on in therapy).

        You know, my husband said a similar thing when I went on my leave. I ended up being off starting on a Wednesday and spent most of that Wednesday organizing things with my coworkers to cover my commitments for the rest of that week and the next. My husband asked who would have done that if I had been in an accident and was in hospital. That’s really helped me these past few weeks when I’ve felt the urge to answer emails and go back before I’m ready. Because yeah, what would happen if I was in hospital, or even just had a flat tire? Other people would have to deal. I think I need to remind myself of that.

    3. Anon Teacher*

      If you are in a school system, are you under a contract of some sort! For example, in our school system, certain mental health professionals are under a teacher contract, and some are under a separate contract (I.e., school psychologists, social workers, behavioral specialists), but all the contracts spell out exactly what their time commitments are and how much planning time is protected. Additionally, each group has a union that helps out if admin tries to encroach upon planning time or if the contract is not being upheld. If these resources are available to you, I would use that language when you talk to your manager (“Per the contract, I must schedule 40 minutes uninterrupted planning time…”), and if that doesn’t work, call your union rep. Good luck.

  87. MomQuestAnon*

    Day 9 of ongoing cold (cough, pinkeye/eye cold) from baby in daycare. Chugging along teleworking, but thoroughly miserable (not miserable enough to take leave, but close). Drinking all the hot water, humidifier on. What helped you most when you were sick with a cold+teleworking?

  88. catalystic*

    I’m (probably) about to be offered a promotion to manager of a small team. I’ve gone along with this because it’s kind of expected and because honestly I’m overpaid for what I do, just because I’ve been here so long. It makes sense that they’d want me in a higher role with this salary, so they can find a new “me” to pay less for what I’ve been doing.

    But I have no desire to be a manager; I never have. I’m just doing it because it seems a better alternative than my other options. I have a little bit of experience managing people (supervising interns and a newbie colleague) but not, you know, MANAGING people. I’ve never hired anyone (though I’ve chosen which interns to hire) and I’ve certainly never fired anyone. And there’s a lot of general management stuff I don’t know – budgeting for a team, onboarding people, working with HR, all that kind of stuff. And… I don’t really love people. I mean, I get along great with people, but it’s a lot of effort, and it’s not my favorite part of my job.

    Has anybody else entered a manager role feeling like this? How did you handle it? How did you learn the new manager stuff? I don’t even know if my company has training for that sort of thing.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Uggh. I hate the strong individual contributor to management pipeline, but I know it’s the only way to move up in a lot of places. They’re totally different skillsets! But of course you know that.

      If and when you are offered the promotion I would be very direct about asking if your company provides management training. That said, if you really don’t want to do this and it would make you unhappy, keep giving it some thought. Could you go somewhere else and do similar work without management responsibilities? Are there other ways your skillset could be utilized for higher value to your current company?

      If not, at least know you’re not alone and this is annoyingly common. See if you can find someone to mentor you in how management works at your company. See about some online management trainings, free or paid (and if they are they should be paid by your company).

    2. MurpMaureep*

      I moved into management initially because I did not want someone external coming in to manage our team (not that I think external = bad, but I in no way trusted our director to hire anyone remotely competent except by total accident).

      I was very unsure I’d like it or be good at it. I’m also an introvert who presents as extroverted but needs tons of introvert recharge time.

      Five years later I’m in an even higher level management position with a larger staff.

      Here’s what I’ve learned: I am a very, very good manager who still isn’t crazy about being a manager. And that actually makes me a better manager overall. It’s the old adage about not giving power to those who crave it.

      Since I was a high performing individual contributor for so long, I know how people like to be treated, what motivates them, what doesn’t, and how to interact with lots of different types. I see my job as supporting my staff and giving them, as much as possible, an environment in which they can do their jobs with minimal stress and drama. And when I get very frustrated I remind myself that I am furthering the good work of our institution (think along the lines of supporting patient safety in a large medical center) by being a better boss than most for the staff doing the actual work.

      So if you are forced into this, perhaps craft internal success criteria and use those as motivation. BUT if you feel you won’t have support from higher ups, either in terms of your own development as a leader or in your support of your employees, think long and hard about whether you can deal with that. Good Luck!!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This parallels my thoughts very closely.
        Introverts can make great leaders because introverts read the room all the time. They tend to have a high awareness of who has what going on. Their crew responds to their leadership because of this higher level of awareness.

        Support is a bfd. You don’t want to take a “kick me” position where the whole point of the job is for everyone to have someone (YOU) to blame when things go wrong.

        If you do not get help with development as a leader, figure out what you would do. I’d read here daily and make AAM my lifeline. You might also consider some online courses to help yourself. If they fail to support you, don’t let your own self down, commit to helping yourself in some way.

        I am also more introvert than extrovert. I would go home DOG-tired. I do like supervising over all. And I did find my “work voice”. I think that it’s easier for me to think of individuals rather than groups. I liked the individuals I worked with- the people I supervised. I did not always agree with them, but I still liked them. And they developed into one heck of a team which I had a deep respect for. So in some ways my sincerity helped me and in some ways my sincerity hindered me. I had to learn how to remain sincere and still do the stuff the company asked of me. For example, I had to tell them to be EXACTLY on time. I have no problem with people being late once in a while. But my company wanted me to enforce that they all had to be exactly on time every day. I got through this by saying, “This is what the company requires. My job is to keep you informed of requirements so you are doing what is expected.”

        I can tell you that if you get strong results, the company might start treating you better than when you first started the job. Having a history of results can be a real asset for you as you go along.

    3. Pocket Mouse*

      This sounds a lot like a past situation I was in. I read Alison’s book, Managing to Change the World, and sought out online management trainings (e.g. on LinkedIn Learning). But I’d never been interested in managing and didn’t get much of a choice in the matter. A key make-or-break factor for me was the level of support I got/didn’t get from my own manager, who I think should have gone out of their way to check in on how my giant new responsibility, *managing*, was going, to identify and coach me on any questions or issues I was facing. As a person who would prefer to deal with spreadsheets than people in general, I definitely exhibited avoidant behaviors and glossed over some situations with direct reports, my manager did not ask any probing questions, and we all suffered for it.

      My advice: get really clear on what the promotion would mean for your day to day work (will you solely be managing people, or also doing independent work?) and what kind of support you can expect from your employer, and especially your manager. And be open and honest about the challenges you foresee now and the challenges you face in the moment. Good luck to you.

  89. Sick of This*

    I’m already set on finding a new job ASAP for so many other reasons, so I suppose I’m not so much looking for a way to “solve” this as I am just looking for a reality check but:

    I had a recent family emergency, and spent the night in the ER with someone who ended up having pretty bad covid. When I tried to call off, I was told I HAD to come in. On zero hours of sleep, not knowing if I’d caught covid from the relative, and practically sick with worry myself over the whole ordeal. (I, luckily, am negative for covid myself, though at that time I didn’t know that!) A few days after I got my official negative test result, I was given a stern talking to and a write-up essentially saying that I can’t call off for any reason – they need me at work. I didn’t have the guts to ask at the time, but I fear what their response would be if I DID catch covid, or was in the hospital myself, or myriad other things…

    How… common is this? Please tell me this isn’t common!! Like I said, I’m already set on finding better employment, this really just feels like the straw that’s breaking the camel’s back. Like, way to make me feel like a non-person cog in a machine, guys! No concern for me or my very sick relative, and having to work and commute on no sleep just added to the stress. I’m just really hoping for confirmation that this is NOT the norm :’)

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Absolutely not the norm. Also depending on where you live – not even legal. If your in the US there isn’t a federal law but there are various state laws.

    3. seepy witt*

      Nope, that’s just them being jerks. Even industries that HAVE to have people working (making it extremely inconvenient to have someone call off) need to have some sort of plan that has a contingency for personal emergencies. Because, well, the emergency doesn’t care at all about the business. It just happens.

    4. Frankie Bergstein*

      This happened to me – it was a highly dysfunctional workplace! My current workplace would NEVER do this; they’d probably send me a card, flowers, and ask how they could be supportive in terms of my workload.

      1. Ginger Baker*

        ^This. I have been out multiple unexpected days for months now, culminating in an extended period of absence during what turned out to be a final ICU stay and now bereavement days. I have gotten nothing but support, people picking up my work while I am out and/or shuttling it to other people who are covering, a call from HR to discuss our FMLA and other support options, and “take as long as you need”. Jobs do NOT need to be like your [crappy] one.

    5. OyHiOh*

      Do you work for a rail company in the US????? This sounds near identical to the work conditions that have nearly led to a rail strike in the US.

      If rail nearly shut down over similar policies, you know it’s a completely ridiculous policy (and also very uncommon)

    7. Pikachu*

      This is extremely common in foodservice/retail/tech support jobs. It’s absolutely inhumane, but it’s another day in the life for a lot of workers.

    8. Chauncy Gardener*

      This is completely messed up and not common at all. Please look for another job. Your company is insane!

    9. Not So NewReader*

      It’s a hallmark of a crappy job. Lots of retail jobs will pull this crap.

      People are saying it’s not normal but it’s been pretty normal for me with a few jobs I have had. I have plenty of examples through other people also.

      This employer sucks. It won’t get better. Just leave. You can do better than this place.

      Bonus points for putting a comment on Glassdoor that this employer did not care if you had Covid or not.

    10. RagingADHD*

      I think it depends greatly on the industry. I’ve never had a job that ridiculous since I was working retail, and even then managers weren’t going to give me crap because they knew I’d just quit and get the same pay somewhere else.

  90. Anon for this one*

    I’m about to have a third interview for a 100% remote position with a company based on the opposite coast. There would be three hours’ difference between me and the HQ and my boss. There is a small team of folks working out of the same region as I would be, but the org doesn’t have a physical office in the region; the existing employees on my coast all work different functions than the role I am interviewing for except for 1-2 direct reports. I have never worked 100% remote before, much less with a boss in a different time zone. The role is essentially manager of programs on this coast, leading me to wonder what specific questions I should ask in this next interview to really understand the company’s culture around core work hours, availability for meetings in the home base’s time zone, travel to the home base, and sort of politely set my boundaries around not being available 12 hours a day. Anyone have advice? TIA!

    1. seepy witt*

      I think you can just ask it very plainly! “Can you tell me more about how you maintain efficiency and good communications given the time difference between this region and the main office?” Then follow up with any specific questions they didn’t answer around core hours and travel.

      Good luck!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      “What hours are the person in this position expected to work? East coast hours or west coast?”

      “How often does the person in this position travel to Company HQ?”

  91. Frankie Bergstein*

    I’ve been thinking about direct communication. I really loved the two examples from readers that Alison posted earlier this week (I’ll provide the links in a response to this message). What I’ve been asking myself is: how do you know in what situations direct communication is needed? I’ve done this recently – sometimes with friends, sometimes with family – and often, I get a bad result. The person will start yelling, give the silent treatment, etc. I think that’s informative: it tells me how they feel about me expressing a need or preference (I tend to be a people-pleasing type, so this is a departure). That being said, it probably would have been better for me to just gently back away from these relationships rather than communicate with them directly. Direct communication means we’re no longer in relationship. Just knowing that they weren’t a reasonable person would have freed me up to create distance without having to sit through their yelling.

    What are your thoughts? When do you go the route of direct communication, indirect communication, vs. distancing without communication?

    2. The Person from the Resume*

      I disagree that direct communication means there’s a problem in the relationship. Direct communication is good and positive and a sign of a good relationship. You don’t want to be guessing what people mean and trying to send hints and hope people catch the hint and understand.

      It sounds like once you finally communicated what you wanted directly you find out that this person doesn’t actually care about what you want. It’s not that they didn’t get the hint before when you were communicating indirectly but they didn’t care about you need or prefer just when you were indirect about it they could pretend they didn’t know.

    3. Educator*

      I did a training on direct communication once where the facilitator encouraged us to start the conversation by framing the way we were going to communicate, especially if it was not our usual communication style–something like:

      “Hey Sally, do you have a few minutes to talk about the TPS report? Great, let’s grab a conference room. You have done such great work moving this report to an online format, and there are just a few final changes we need to make to perfect this process. I want to be really direct with you about this, because your work on this report is important, and I don’t want to hint at things and expect you to guess what I mean. Can we talk really directly about those changes?”

      Or, in a personal context, “Sally, I really value our friendship, and I want to still be hanging out and baking cookies together in twenty years. I’m trying to work on being more direct with people when I need something from them, and I hope you can help by listening to how I feel about having your cat in the kitchen. Is that a conversation you would be open to having?”

      I tried it, and it felt really fake at first, but it helped to explain that I was going to communicate more directly and why when people were not used to that from me. It built buy-in, somehow. Unreasonable people, like the yellers and silent treatment givers, will always be unreasonable, but reasonable people who might be confused by an abrupt shift in your communication style will appreciate a genuine effort to help them.

      1. Weaponized Pumpkin*

        I think signalling change is super important! Standard advice seems to be: make a change or set a boundary, and if it alienates the person then good riddance. But change is confusing and we don’t know how to interpret it without context. Explaining it goes a long way to being understood in the way we need.

    4. Despachito*

      My experience is almost identical, and my conclusions too.

      I absolutely need direct communication to be able to be close to a person.

      I agree with you wholeheartedly that if direct communication is not possible, the relationship is doomed (if it is a relative I cannot cut off, it becomes superficial). But don’t flagellate yourself for trying this to people who did nto respond well – how else would you be able to tell it is the case if you did not try?

      The only thing I’d be careful of is to keep the communication direct yet respectful, because it is normal to make mistakes but nobody wants to feel like a vilain for it. (I am saying it generally as I completely ignore what your style of communication is).

      However, my 5 cents says that given the reaction of the people (yelling, silent treatment) that the problem lies completely with them.

      1. ferrina*

        Love this advice. Direct and kind- some people will take “direct” as a synonym for “unkind”. You should be as direct with your kindness as with your critiques.

        But unreasonable and/or cruel people will do whatever they want no matter what you do. If someone is regularly yelling/giving the silent treatment, that person has their own communication issues. You can’t solve their issues- give them their space and surround yourself with people who are reasonable and lovely.

        1. Despachito*

          Yes, absolutely – a lot of people say “I’m direct, I say exactly what I think” while they are just plain rude and unnecessarily cruel.

          I find it fascinating and consider it to be an art if someone is able to strike the right balance between being direct about saying what they donť like AND being respectful when doing it.

          Perhaps this is why I love this site because Alison and the commenters are somehow able to convey that an OP was not quite right yet not make her/him feel like a Disney vilain.

    5. Despachito*

      As to your last paragraph, if the person in question started pouting (or in my case, crying and acting irritated when called upon), I never had the balls to be direct.

      But looking back, it is also possible that my intuition (of quite a time when this person ignored me and how they acted overall) warned me that it would be stressful effort not worth it.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      At work, I communicate directly all the time. Direct communication done correctly is not cruel, it lays out the matter in a clear, logical way. In some ways it’s actually helpful or supportive because the person knows exactly what you want and they are able to get it right the first time. win-win.

      I did have an instance with a volunteer group. We were trying to do X. A person wrote us a page long letter talking about the points we needed to hit in doing X.
      My group went into total meltdown. “Oh we are being scolded.”
      I read the letter. It was purely instructive. “Do A but do not do B. Add in C here. Your next step is D.” Then we see that this person did X professionally, this person was giving our group FREE professional advice!

      I knew the person (very kind person) and invited him to speak to our group. The night he was to appear, I could not believe what I saw. The whole group was totally on edge. You would have thought they were facing a root canal or a tax audit. omg. They just could not contain their nervousness.
      The person came in and worked their magic. He told stories from his work experience and used those stories to show how he helped groups. He went over his specific advice for us. Before it was over 3 group members asked this former Person-To-Be-Feared if they would join our group. He wowed them. I knew he would.

      People react to even constructive criticism on an emotional level. That wall goes up right away. It’s good to anticipate that sudden wall, when approaching a topic. A few things help to break that wall down or at least make it shorter so people can hop over it. Compliments where true are helpful, but it’s worthwhile to mention that in the face of constructive criticism it’s going to take several compliments to be heard ONCE.
      Stories are good. The story can be any thing relevant. “Yeah, I did that very thing once and here’s what happened next….”. OR, third party, “A friend had this come up and she tried xyz just like you did and she had no luck with it. Here’s why…”
      Sometimes stories are not appropriate or I just can’t think of a story. In those cases I look around to see if I can spot why they made the mistake. If true, I might say, “I can see why you chose A not B, because it does actually look like A is the better choice. But in this instance you want B because of [reasons].” It turns the moment into a teaching moment and people can feel a bit better because they know that won’t get by them again. If true I have also added, “Spread the word because others are doing the same thing. And you can see it’s really just the nature of the thing that people pick A instead of B.”

      To me, hinting is cruel. It almost feels like mockery. “I am not going to say exactly what I want I am going to make you guess. I bet you can’t guess.” To me hinting can be a form of bullying. I don’t do well with hints, I guess wrong most of the time. Here’s how hints sound to me:

      They say, “Oh it’s cold outside today”.
      They actually mean, “Your report is three days late.”

      No. Sorry, I cannot translate that hint and instantly give you that report. In my first few working years, I dealt with a lot of that. Then I finally learned to speak up and encourage people just to ask me directly what they wanted. I expect to work, I am there to – you know- DO work. It’s okay to tell me what you need.

      [“And btw, that report you said is 3 days late, I emailed it to you 4 days ago.” Hinters tend (not always but more often that direct speakers) to fall all over the place and miss key points such as the email 4 days ago. And it does take them 3 days to get around to asking, because they can’t ask.]

      1. Despachito*

        I love this!

        And I think you are spot on with the emotional wall and the ways how to break it. There is a world of difference between “you did it wrong, you should have chosen B and not A”, and “I see why you chose A because it seems the most logical way but in this case, B is a better choice, and there is why.”

        In the first case, I’d feel like someone who F-ed up (and if I was touchy, even could hear “you suck”), in the second, as a competent person in the natural process of learning. And the actual process of learning would be often quicker than in the first case.

        And I hate hinting as much as you do because I am unable to read it, and frankly do not want to invest so much emotional energy in it.

  92. Taco Bell Job Fair*

    For the past week I had to deal with some terrible recruiters. They were texting me at 6am. Their excuse was time zones they were in Texas and I’m in the Pacific time zone. They had a broken website. When I got stuck on filling out a part of the application they would call and text me to finish it. Then I had to turn the job down because I could not prove to them I am a real person. Now the recruitment company won’t stop sending me emails about filling out tax forms even after I tuned down the job.

    2. Curmudgeon in California*

      If a recruiter texts me a six am, I don’t care where they’re from. If they haven’t read my resume well enough to notice the state I live in, and do the clock math accordingly, I can’t trust that anything they have would suit me. Plus, if they keep pestering me I come to the conclusion that they are running a scam and I block them.

      I have basic criteria for working with recruiters:
      1) They have to be able to read my resume listing with enough comprehension that they only solicit me for jobs similar to what I have been doing. No where on my resume does it list “data entry” or “file clerk”.
      2) They have to be able to read and understand my location. If they solicit me for an on-site short contract role all the way on the other side of the country they fail this.
      3) They have to be aware of time zones. If they text me outside of business hours in my region, they fail this, especially if it’s early in the morning.
      4) They have to be cognizant of seniority and pay scales where I live. A $17/hour file clerk job on-site in New Jersey is an insult to a senior systems administrator in the SF Bay Area. I made that 30+ years ago.
      5) They have to respect my time. If they book me into meetings without asking, then inform me of when I have to show up, it does not indicate that the relationship is based on mutual respect, and I will drop them like a bad Tinder match.
      6) If they want salary history, they are ignorant of local law and I don’t want to give them that data.
      7) If they want identity documents before the offer stage, I get nervous, and will refuse, especially if they ask for my SSN.

      This may sound to some to be excessively picky, but every time I have ignored those rules I ended up unhappy with the whole process. YMMV, of course.

    3. RagingADHD*

      This all sounds very confusing.

      Do you not have a “Do not disturb” function on your phone? I think most people assume everyone knows how to manage their incoming messages for themselves.

      If you couldn’t prove you were a real person, in what sense were you “turning down” the job? A company made you a job offer despite thinking you were a fraud?

      1. Taco Bell Job Fair*

        I do have a do not disturb function, but I think I mistakenly turned it off that day to watch youtube videos on my phone. For some reason when I use that function it won’t let me watch youtube videos. The worst part was they texted me at 6am on a Saturday. The next time a few days later I did have my phone on that setting. Woke up later in the morning and saw there was another text from them sent at 6am. That’s when I told them to stop texting me at 6am. This is what they wrote back “Sorry I’m in another state so the time difference is a few hours”

        Besides the standard SSN card and License/ID they needed bank forms and a canceled check. I do online banking so I don’t have that stuff on hand. I told them I did not want the job anymore. That the on boarding process was too complicated.

  93. I messed up*

    Today I messed up big and had to tell my boss that I deleted some important stuff and it’s impossible to undo. They were really graceful about it and it might be that IT can fix it (pretty please! Otherwise we need to broadcast my mistake to a lot of people, who will have to redo stuff…), but I obviously didn’t start my weekend in the best of moods.

    It will not get me fired, because I work at a reasonable place and it wasn’t that big a mistake, but my reputation will suffer. Could you please share stories where you messed up and it worked out ok? It would help a lot to know I’m not alone.

    1. Weaponized Pumpkin*

      Early in my career I was working as an in-house designer. I was redesigning our company letterhead / business cards / envelopes and when I went to place the order with the printer, I transposed numbers of the Pantone color for the logo. (My artwork files had the correct color specified, but my paperwork was incorrect.) The logo on the entire set was printed in the wrong color – mint instead of teal. They had to reprint everything at their cost. I was mortified! But it was literally never mentioned again, there wasn’t any visible damage to my reputation, and it went away. Phew!

    2. VLookupsAreMyLife*

      When I worked as a bank teller, I accidentally gave a customer an extra $100,000.00 in cash once and they left with it. Yeah, you read that right… an extra ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS left my cash drawer and I didn’t even know!!! Thankfully, it was one of my regular customers and he just brought it back later that day. I got written up (how did I not get fired on the spot?!?), but still ended up getting my full bonus that month, so… I guess it worked out okay in the end?

  94. H*

    Anyone else have some coworkers who are somewhat flaky and unresponsive esp when your boss is out/not watching closely?

    In other news, I get to go to a conference in Nashville next month and work is paying! Yay!

    1. VLookupsAreMyLife*

      Yep, they make my eye twitch… sigh.

      In other news, I live in Nashville! Let me know if you want reccs for fun stuff that doesn’t involve honky tonks or pedal taverns. No judgment if that’s your jam, we’ve just got WAY more going for us than just that!

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Great question and it ties in so well with the post below that involves an HR who thinks absentee bosses are nbd.

  95. AspiringHR*

    Should managers/supervisors be required to be in the office? If so, how much, if not, why not? I’m curious what everyone thinks as it’s quite an interesting topic of controversy in HR right now.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      They should be held to the same requirements as the rest of the staff. If it’s important to be in the office, it’s really demoralizing to be told you have to come in but everyone above you gets to work from home. There are some things that come with seniority that are perks but if the point of being in the office is truly collaboration/teambuilding/culture whatever than exemption from that is totally unreasonable to expect as management.

    2. ferrina*

      Can they effectively manage/supervise remotely?

      I’ve worked jobs with remote supervisors where being remote wasn’t an issue (I actually haven’t had a supervisor work from the same location as me in 7 years). I’ve also worked jobs where it would have been an issue and the manager/supervisor wouldn’t have been able to effectively do their job if they weren’t in the office. So really depends on what the role is and who the team is (more junior teams often require more guidance, so being in office might be recommended, though not sure if I’d require it).

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      If a manager in my department has a team member who is required to work onsite, they or their immediate manager also have to be onsite with the team member. My department does onsite as a disciplinary measure or else by request only, and we try to avoid it as much as possible because we don’t have a central location, my team ranges from four hours north (and in fact out of state) to three hours south. My two compatriot managers have people even farther out of state than I do. Since my whole team is remote though, I am also 100% remote. (My boss, at the director level, is primarily remote but has to be in onsite meetings like twice a week I think. Above her, they’re almost all 100% onsite.)

    4. Not So NewReader*

      We see complaints here all the time about not being able to talk to the boss, the boss is never available and so on. It’s a problem.

      Companies tend to do whatever-whatever. And I think there tends to be a trend on this site that it’s fine for bosses to show up when ever or not.

      I believe that companies harvest what they sow. If bosses are not present, not available, then the work of the subordinates WILL reflect that. With this in mind, then it’s just a matter of does the company want good productivity or no.

    5. Curmudgeon in California*

      If their staff/direct reports have to come in, then the manager should go in. If they don’t want to, then the ICs should also be free to stay away.

      This BS with more restrictive rules about office based work for low level people for “collaboration” or other lies while their managers survey from afar is just wrong, and hypocritical. If IC people gotta come in for “collaboration” and “serendipitous creativity” then their managers need to be a part of it. Otherwise it just proves that their gaslighting about collaboration” and “spontaneity” is cynical lies based in command and control logic.

    6. DJ Abbott*

      Sorry for the late reply! I have to mention my boss at my previous job.
      Before the pandemic, I worked in an administrative office at a hospital. The last few years I was there my boss was gone at least 50% of the time. He was chair of the department and had other things going on like being on boards. He was/is a dynamic type who’s always moving fast and texting during meetings, etc. Very nice and supportive with personal things.
      My first few years he was there most of the time and it wasn’t exactly easy to get a minute with him, but it was possible. We also had weekly check-in meetings. He would often give me projects and I was able to keep busy.
      The last few years when he wasn’t there he was managing by text and phone. He thought it was just as good, but it was not. It was more difficult to get answers from him, and he wasn’t giving me as much to do, and I felt isolated and bored in my office. That’s when I started looking at AAM every day.
      I know other support staff felt like this and I expect physicians needed more presence from him also. One of them sent her resignation via email and he almost missed it. It had been years since he tried to read all of his emails.
      He left for another job shortly after my position was eliminated by the suits.

  96. FJ*

    So I was let go from my company today due to “restructuring.” This came as quite a surprise.
    Two other employees were let go at the same time. They were on a project that was going quite late that I was only peripherally involved in. Most of my other projects were going well, and I had helped bring in some new business and partners. I had been given feedback on things to improve but no “your job is danger” level feedback. So I don’t think there’s a clear work related reason for it, but they had to clean house. I get it. It’s a pretty typical pattern for what I have seen at the company before.

    I had been having some frustrations at the company anyway, so I’m not super disappointed, and I have been talking to some old colleagues about other opportunities anyway. So I’m sure I’ll be fine.

    My question is – what should I tell the old colleagues when they ask why my search is now much more urgent? Try to explain the project background? Just cover high-level “they were cleaning house?” Any suggestions?

    1. Sunny days are better*

      I used to work for a similar company that would randomly lay groups of people off and there often seemed to be no logic to their choices.

      I would call your colleagues and let them know that the company “drew your numbers at the recent lay-off lotto.” They will likely completely understand since they used to work there.

      Hugs to you – it sucks when you don’t get to choose when you leave a company.

    2. PollyQ*

      Tell them you were let go because of restructuring. No need to go into any more detail, and they probably wouldn’t care anyway.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Keep it super simple like others are saying. “Restructure.” That’s it, you’re done explaining.

      I’ve gotten the no-your-job-is not-in-danger song and dance a few times now and I have become unable to believe people when they say it. I am so sorry you were lied to like that.

  97. Sloanicota*

    I’m a bit discouraged and could use some insight. I was hearing all summer about how this was the greatest worker economy and the “great resignation” was shaking everybody up – but I’m wasn’t really seeing that many more jobs in my field, or at least not that pay any better than what I currently earn. Now I keep hearing we’re going to hit a recession and the time for getting great new job opportunities is probably already over. Do you think I missed my shot? I’m going to keep applying but I am feeling like the last kid picked for kickball.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I agree that some industries felt the shakeup more than others; however, I do see stodgier and/or lower paying industries maybe starting to pay more and/or offer more flexibility. I’m thinking nonprofits in particular are starting to talk more about competitive pay in their listings. So hang in there, I think this is a long wave that has yet to crest!

    2. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      I haven’t seen much either!
      Granted, I am being SUPER picky about what I apply for. Some are okay, but I don’t want just ok, I want something that will excite me again.

      I also see a lot of marketing roles posted, but most are roles too low for me at this stage of my career, both the job and salary. Good for others I hope though.

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I don’t think you missed your shot, but there are as many job openings as there are people who resigned their positions for a better position…so to me, it was always more a game of musical chairs rather than a slew of new fantastic jobs that appeared. You have to wade through all of those jobs that people abandoned and hope there’s one that fits you better than the one you have. Is pay the only criteria, or can you evaluate new jobs on other factors like commute time or remote work? Can you find a job that fits MOST of your criteria and try to negotiate salary?

    4. Hlao-roo*

      The thing about both the “great resignation” and the (potential) coming recession is that both of those things are descriptions of the economy at large – a big-picture, on-average view of the job market. You’ve already experienced that the “great resignation” wasn’t really that great (if it happened at all) in your field. If there is a recession, that too will affect some areas of the economy more than others.

      The tech bubble burst of 2001 created a recession – hit tech companies first and hardest then rippled out to other fields. The 2008 recession hit construction/real estate/banking first and hardest, then rippled out from there. I can’t predict which fields will be most heavily affected in the next recession, but it is too early to feel like you’ll be the last kid picked for the kickball team. Keep looking for and applying to jobs.

  98. Sunny days are better*

    This week, I had to attend a two and a half day conference. People flew in from all over the world – I already live at the location, so no flying for me. The only Covid restriction was that participants had to be double-vaxxed.

    There were 600-700 people seated either in a huge room, or 25-30 in small rooms for breakouts. Everyone was sitting shoulder to shoulder and there were evening party events as well.

    Only a dozen people at most were wearing masks which shocked me. I figured that with so many people in attendance, that number would be higher.

    Covid in my area is far from over. I’m not trying to start a debate of who is “right” or “wrong,” but is 99% of the population out there really just living life as in older times? Am I really such an aberration? I would genuinely like to hear how the commentariat would have approached attending this event.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I have seen an absolute explosion of in-person conferences in my LinkedIn feeds! It seems like lots of business types have been desperate to get back to IRL conferences and networking. Your event is not at all an aberration. Another data point – I just attended back to back Back to School Nights; one school said please wear a mask and most – but not all – did. The other school said masks are optional and about half were. Otherwise the BTSN activities were all the same as pre-pandemic, 30 people crammed into classrooms and jammed hallways.

    2. Sloanicota*

      Sadly, I think everyone is over it. I’m clearly getting “a reputation” at my job for being “unreasonable” because I keep wearing my mask indoors; I’m now the only one doing it. My boss has requested people to take a rapid test before big meetings but we all know that’s not effective enough, as plenty of contagious people test negative in the beginning. I don’t know why we’re so opposed to opening more windows or having meetings outside if we’re sooooo desperate to get together in person. Just bitter because my job doesn’t need any face-to-face but my boss just “likes it” and I’ve had a series of exposures from unmasked people because of it. I have not had covid yet.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        It is really an odd reaction from your coworkers to think you are being unreasonable. What harm do they think your mask is doing? I could possibly see thinking somebody unreasonable if they insisted everybody in the company mask, but…somebody wearing a mask themselves…that makes no sense.

    3. ABK*

      Yes, I think most people (at least in the US) are living life like they did pre-COVID. The people who are vaccinated aren’t afraid of dying or going to the hospital if they get it, and the people who aren’t vaccinated never were afraid of it to begin with.
      I recently flew and wore my mask in the airports, but not on the planes. I probably would have worn one in the huge room, but maybe not in the smaller breakout rooms.

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I’ll be honest: I recently attended a conference of 600-800 people, and did not wear a mask. I believe in Covid, I’ve had it, I know I likely will have it again. But I’m double vaxxed (and will get the new booster once my new job’s health insurance kicks in) and at this point, for me and the risk factors of my life, I consider it to be one of a number of viruses to which I will be exposed every day for the rest of my life. I know it’s a political talking point to say “it’s just a flu!” so I won’t say that (because it’s not), but I don’t believe it’s possible or even healthy to try to prevent myself or my kid from ever getting sick. My toddler goes to daycare and comes home with new germs every week, and I believe it’s more important for him (and me!) to be out in the world and learning new things and being around other people, and we do not have underlying risk factors that make viruses particularly dangerous. It’s true that anyone can get severe side effects or lingering symptoms, but that’s true of virtually every disease – in fact, risk of death from a coronary incident goes up significantly in the year after contracting influenza, likely because of systemic inflammation.

      I think people can and should continue to mask if they feel sick, or if they decide it’s right for them as a protective measure. I’m also about to start a new job that will require me to wear a mask onsite and I’m totally fine with that. We all make different risk calculations in our own lives and this is mine.

      1. allathian*

        Yes, I pretty much agree, with the caveat that I still WFH most of the time and very few people are wearing masks at the office. Less than 10 percent are wearing them on public transit. Our healthcare authority dropped the mask mandate/strong recommendation in May, although people with respiratory symptoms or known exposure are asked to mask up. I wear my mask for medical appointments, but not otherwise unless I know I’ve been exposed, and if that’s the case, I’ll stay at home as much as I can. That said, I’m getting the new omicron vaccine as soon as I become eligible.

        Currently, there are 0 patients in ICU for Covid in my healthcare district. At the height of the pandemic there were hundreds at a time.

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      In my current world, things are pretty much back to “normal.” There’s a huge trade show coming up that a bunch of folks in my company are flying to (not me) and in person team meetings have been going on since the spring of this year. Restaurants in my area (New England) are back to normal. I see folks wearing masks regularly, but they are no longer in the majority. I agree with Tina Belcher’s Less Cool Sister’s approach, personally.

    6. mreasy*

      My industry is full of conferences and almost nobody wears masks. I think people are at the point where because they’re vaxxed and maybe have already had it they’re willing to take the risk.

    7. Alice*

      My profession’s giant professional organization’s conference this year is going to be in the city where I live. I had been looking forward to it since the location was announced 4 years ago. My work would have paid for it no questions asked.
      I’m not going. For one thing, I bet it turns into a superspreader event (it’s a huge conference, people from all over, and in our city it’s going to be too cold for most people to enjoy socializing outdoors). For another, why spend my time and energy presenting at a conference that excludes the voices of people with disabilities, is super expensive, and requires travel and visas? Instead I’m presenting at a new-to-me conference that is smaller relatively but is 100% online, has an active strategy to include LMIC researcher perspectives, and is much more affordable (ie less exclusionary).
      I do have to do some things for my job that involve more COVID risk than I take in my personal life. Here’s what I do. Some could translate to a conference perhaps?
      – I improved the indoor air quality in my home, so that I have a lower chance of passing it to my high-risk household member even if I do bring it home.
      – I do not remove my mask indoors at work. I don’t care if I’m the only person in the room right now — I don’t know who else was exhaling in here right before I walked in. That sometimes means watching other people eat in lunch meetings. Awkward, but I do not care.
      – I explicitly ask people to tell me if they realize after seeing me that they were contagious at the time, so that I can test more frequently and mask in shared spaces at home (as, for the record, CDC recommends for close contacts). Because of stigma concerns, I mention this anonymous, CDC-recommend website: https://tellyourcontacts.org/. This is easier because I am usually the presenter in situations where I have to spend a long time with a big group indoors. If I were one of the participants, I don’t know how I’d handle it.
      – Maybe obvious, but I wear a disposable or elastomeric respirator indoors outside my home (rather than a surgical or cloth mask).

    8. Maggie*

      Yes 99% or more are just living like that. And I would have just gone on as normal and not work a mask if you want my honest answer

    9. Loredena*

      My husband and I are still masking everywhere and not attending indoor events. The rest of my family is a good bit more active. They’ve also all had covid and we have not.

    10. RagingADHD*

      I’d say 90+ percent of people have not been wearing masks around here for the better part of a year. There has been a slight uptick lately, but my ballpark estimate is that it varies between 5 and 15 percent masking.

      I’m vaxxed x4, and most everyone I know well enough to discuss it with is at least x3, and the general trend is to only mask if having symptoms or a known exposure.

      Our positivity rates are relatively high, but our hospitalization rates are quite low and the death rate is practically non-existent. People aren’t taking it as seriously because the impacts in our community right now are in fact less serious than they were.

      One of my kids caught it a couple of weeks ago, so we all isolated and then masked for the required period. Aside from that, I would attend the event and bring a mask, but probably wouldn’t wear it unless most other people were, or if there were people sneezing and coughing.

      If travel were involved, I would certainly mask on the plane because I’ve nearly always gotten sick with something when I fly, my whole life. It made a nice change to fly masked and stay well.

    11. Irish Teacher*

      I would definitely wear a mask to an event like that. You don’t know who else is in the room with you and what their risk factors are, so I wouldn’t want to risk anybody’s health. (I also want to do what I can to avoid getting covid myself, although I know wearing a mask gives more benefit to those around you than to you.) In fact, for an event like that, I would wear a medical grade mask.

      The fact that I have sinus problems makes me more careful about wearing masks, especially combined with the fact that I rarely get very sick from anything. I think the odds are relatively high that I might not even notice it if I had covid, as a lot of the symptoms of milder cases are symptoms are have practically consistently – cough, blocked nose, etc – and that means I could end up spreading it without realising I even had it.

      I also cannot see any reason NOT to wear a mask. It is a very easy thing to do to protect oneself and others, not only from covid, but also from things like flu and other viruses. Even without covid, it has benefits.

      I will admit, I not longer mask in all situations. It seems a bit pointless when nobody else is, because if I am in a room of 30 people, well, even if somebody there is at high risk, my masking only gives them minimal protection, so I don’t mask for most of my classes now, but if I am on public transport or in a busy place (when it rains and breaks are taken indoors, then I wear a mask if I’m on yard duty, because most of the school is in the gym at the same time) or if my sinus symptoms are bad.

      Even on public transport now, the majority of people are not masked. Mass is the one place where a majority wear masks. I think in most cases, it’s more “couldn’t be bothered” than actually believing there is a disadvantage to wearing a mask that outweighs the protection it gives.

  99. Toasty*

    I’ve recently noticed a trend of external folks (customers, vendors, etc) sending me calendar invites without asking my availability. For people within my organization we often rely on shared calendars to find the best available time to meet, but I find it odd and a bit presumptuous for people outside the organization to blindly schedule meetings like that.

    I suspect that they are trying to cut down on the amount of emails back and forth by hoping that the scheduled time will work, but I still rubs me the wrong way since it puts the scheduling responsibility on me if it does not work. Have any other readers experienced this? I would love to hear other’s thoughts ln this.

    1. Curmudgeon in California*

      Ewww, how presumptuous!

      I would reflexively decline meetings like that unless they were the type of “Hey, we’re holding a training on our new Llama Grooming Scheduler Plus software. Would you like to sign up to attend at Date, Time??” Seriously, if an outside vendor sends you random meeting invite where they didn’t even check your schedule I would consider it an overreach and decline it, but I’m ornery like that.

  100. Former Mailroom Clerk*

    Had to clean out my desk at work this week. I’m still fully employed, and classified as “Hybrid” (rather than full time remote or full time in person). I’ve been fully remote since March of 2020, but I’ve been on site a small handful of times (mostly for meetings with vendors who were in town for various reasons.)

    Apparently, they needed space in our building (my employer has many buildings in this town) for a different group, and they haven’t quite figured out where we’ll be moving to.

    So, in addition to my home office setup which is upstairs, my living room is a temporary storage space for 2 monitors, a box of everything that was in my desk, and an office chair. (Not to mention the old office chair that I retired when my company bought me a new one for my home setup). How long? Nobody knows. That’s the fun part!

  101. No one reads this far*

    I recently (like this week recently) got promoted at my job and one of my new roles will be managing an entirely new department. I’ve never managed another human being in my life, let alone run a department so it is very daunting.

    Any advice/things I should know/stuff I can read to better prepare myself? I really want to set everyone up for success.

    TIA :)

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      I replied to someone else below with the same type of question, but I really love AAM’s managerial advice. Her scripts for dealing with difficult situations and conversations are great, unemotional, and very effective

  102. germank106*

    A couple of weeks ago I asked for help with a new hire that constantly complains about not being asked to lead projects. She also uses her Master’s degree (in an unrelated field) as an excuse to not do assigned work. She went so far as to go to grandboss to complain. He shut her down fairly quickly but ultimately turned the problem back over to our manager who just said to “give her time”.
    We talked to our manager as a group and laid out all the different problems she causes for the team. This time the manager listened and placed her on a PIP. The new hire said the goals laid out in the PIP were not attainable and she submitted her resignation this morning stating that she would look for another job where her education would be valued and she wouldn’t be asked to do work that was beneath her.

    3. Curmudgeon in California*

      LOL! I’d say “Bye Felicia” or “Don’t let the door hit where the maker split ya!”

  103. Anon for this*

    So, there’s someone at work (we are all remote) who is JUST like Topper from Dilbert. I don’t want to get into the politics of Scott Adams, but this is just the most efficient shorthand to describe this guy.
    The thing is, I think he’s actually had a lot of very cool experiences, so he’s not like Topper in making things up, but it’s SO freaking obnoxious and condescending. And he does it to everyone.all.the.time.
    Does anyone have any advice for ways to reply to the “topping” that might help him to get the point that this is obnoxious? I am not his manager, but deal with him a lot and am higher than him in the food chain.

    1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Try to reframe his topping as his way of (poorly) contributing to a conversation but use that as a way to call him out privately, maybe, “Topper, Bob was just hoping to share his Cool News and get some congratulations/attention/affirmation. It’s not necessary to add your own story on top; one Cool Story at a time is enough. I realize that it feels awkward for you not to add a personal connection to the Cool Story, but I suggest asking questions or just listening.”

      1. Anon for this*

        Thank you! I really like this approach. It’s kind and acknowledges the reality of everyone’s stake in the situation. And I think you nailed what’s probably going on in “topper’s” head too. I’m sure he doesn’t mean anything negative.

      2. KG*

        Yup! I do this All The Time, because I feel like I should sympathize/contribute about how I’ve been there too. I’d be grateful to be told to stop it in a nonjudgmental way. (I don’t necessarily notice when it’s coming off the wrong way… yes, I’m on the spectrum).

        1. Despachito*

          I am doing the same thing for the some reason – when someone tells a story (not a success one but rather something either neutral or slightly negative) I tend to respond by my own story. Definitely not as a one-upmanship, rather to relate and sympathize (similar as one reader here said that they made a big mistake and invited people to share their own mistakes to feel better).

          Perhaps Topper is trying to do this?

          IDK how I come across (hopefully not as Topper), but if so, I’d be also glad if someone told me gently and was sort of able to guess that my motivation is good and that I am not trying to steal the show. I’d be mortified if someone assumed I am doing it to boast or trump someone.

          1. Anon for this*

            I don’t think either of you would come off the way my Topper is. You sound sympathetic/empathetic and nice. “Oh gosh, that happened to me too and I’m so sorry it happened to you too” kind of thing, right?
            It’s more along the lines of “Oh, you went to the Red Sox game last night? That’s nice. I played for their farm team and my cousin is SomeBigPlayer” and “Oh, I’m so sorry for your loss. My spouse always says I’m so good with grief because I lost 5 people in one year and my house burned to the ground”
            Like, WTF?

  104. WheresMyPen*

    Not a question but a moral. I made a bit of a mistake last week when briefing a freelancer and negotiating their fee. Wasn’t the end of the world but meant I’d probably go over budget by a couple of hundred quid. I’m quite new to this role and when I realised got so worried about it, I honestly couldn’t stop thinking about it all night, thinking of how I’d explain to my manager and how I could fix it. I’m not usually a worrier but when I get something in my head I go over and over it. I decided I’d speak to my manager and explain it instead of trying to cover it up or ignore it, even though I felt really anxious. I called her on Teams, explained, and she was so lovely. Basically told me it was fine, we’d make it work this time and find places to absorb the cost and learn for next time. I think I’d know she would be nice about it but as soon as I ended the call I felt so relieved. This is a lesson to always nip mistakes or worries in the bud instead of dwelling on them for days!

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      I’m so glad it worked out!!
      As I was reading your post I was trying to channel AAM and I was thinking “just tell your boss! It will be OK!”

      1. WheresMyPen*

        Believe me, I was channelling AAM in my own head too! Like, yes part of you wants to quit and move to a shack in the mountains, but put your big girl pants on and call her!

  105. Nothing left to sell*

    How do you deal with constant negative internal messaging regarding the viability of your employer? I’ve already decided to go down with the ship, so to speak, but it’s wearing on me and on the quality of my work. Any tips or advice are welcome.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      I think you mean that your cohorts are speaking negatively? If yes, I don’t think there is that much you can do. They are mad that they are losing their jobs. It would be helpful to understand why you are not concerned. But lacking that, I’d say that I would tell myself that every decision has tradeoffs, in deciding to stay I must plow through the grumbling. Focus on your reasons for staying and the advantages you will have from that. Again I am not sure what your goals are here, but make those personal goals your focus.

      If it’s effecting your work quality, then I would tell myself to knuckle down and start in using systems of double checking to make sure what ever work I “hand in” is up to par. This is not for the faint of heart, I know. Stuff like this can be distracting to the nth degree. I know in my own job people are already so distracted that I am catching dozens of mistakes every day in stuff that is handed to me. This in turn makes me distracted. It can’t possibly be better at your place.

      All I know to do is ramp up your self-care, rest, whole foods, and hydration. For my own peace of mind, I would have to figure out how much longer I will tolerate this.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      If the ship really is going down and it’s not just gossip, keep your focus on building up and documenting a solid performance, reputation/influence, resume, or portfolio (whatever) for the next job — assuming that you aren’t so close to retirement, or financially secure, that you will not work after the loss of your job. If you or your org are strongly mission-oriented, try to use that as a motivator; you keep reminding yourself of the greater mission and plan ways you will achieve that — with or without this employer.

    3. AnonForThis*

      Late but wanted to add – where is such messaging coming from? Because several years ago there was a fair amount of negative “this company is never going to last” talk going on at my job. Someone who was the head of a department told me “confidentially, I give it 6 months.” I decided I had a healthy enough emergency fund that I could weather any potential unemployment so I stuck with it. It is now 4 years later, company is still around, and negative nelly head of the department? Is currently working for a direct competitor so, you know, was not an unbiased source. (The situation and timing is such that… yeah, he was already in talks w/ the competitor.)

  106. Unsure*

    I know that it has been asked a few times before, but how do you know when a new job is a bad fit?
    I started a new job about 6 weeks ago and I’m not enjoying it but not sure whether I should stick it out or start looking for something new.
    This new job is part of a team launching a new product and I feel like I’m launching from one crisis to the next. My boss is so busy that I rarely get quality one on one time with her.
    So it ends up that I’m working with little direction and them feeling like I’m doing a terrible job.
    So should I stay or go?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      The number one thing I’d do is compare it to other jobs. Six weeks in is not very far. It’s kind of tricky to remember, but if you can figure out how you felt at previous jobs six weeks into it.

      You do have two bad strikes against this job- an absentee boss and what sounds like unsupportive cohorts. I can’t tell if the crisises are your own OR if the company is dropping problems in your lap and telling you to deal. If they are just dropping problems in your lap and leaving you alone, then that would be a third strike against this job.

      Can you ask your boss for an informal mentor?
      Can you find a friendly cohort who wouldn’t mind a few well thought out questions?
      Is there someone there who was hired just before you? Sometimes these people are the most empathetic and they will try to help even though they are only one step ahead in the learning curve.

      For your own peace of mind you might want to keep job hunting, see what else is out there. This might tend to counterbalance all the concern and uncertainty you feel now.

    2. Unsure*

      * then not them. They say I’m doing a great job but I feel like I’m not doing my best work because everything is urgent and nothing gets the time it needs to be how I’d like it

    3. RagingADHD*

      If nobody is actively being awful, and there’s no bait-and-switch in the job duties/ required skills, I’d give it 3 months to get clarity on whether it’s just a learning curve or an unusual crunch period.

    4. WheresMyPen*

      I had this a few months ago, and actually applied for a new job and was offered it. In that time, my work picked up and I realised I quite enjoyed it, and when the offer came in I knew instinctively that I wasn’t ready to leave. Having to make that decision really pushed me to decide. I think new roles can take time to get off the ground, and if your boss is always busy it can feel like you’re on your own. Maybe see if you can schedule some time to catch up with them and raise your main concerns and see if they can offer any support or solutions? Or see what else is out there that might give you clarity on what you want.

  107. I'm just here for the cats*

    How can I get my coworkers to clean out the fridge?
    I’m the main admin for our department at a university. there are around 15 people total. Last year was the first year we had a full-size fridge AND everyone was in the office at the same time since covid restrictions eased. Well, now that we have a larger fridge (compared to the mini fridge we had for years) we had the problem of having people bring large items of food and forgetting about it. Most staff are here only during the academic year so in June I took the time to do a deep clean. There was so much stuff that was about ready to walk out we should have sent it to the science department for testing!

    I talked with my supervisor and director and they agreed that come fall we should have a sign-up sheet and people can take turns cleaning out the fridge. (This is not something facilities does). We also talked about having a clean fridge policy where people take responsibility to take home any food from the week on Friday.
    So when the fall semester started and staff came back I told folx about the new process. I DO NOT WANT TO BE THE FRIDGE POLICE!!!! But nothing is being done. I threw out food the other day that had been in there for a month and was already moldy. People have come to me to say don’t throw this away I’m going to have it on Monday. I’m not cleaning it out! I Want them to take responsibility of their own mess!

    On top of people not taking stuff home no one has signed up to clean the fridge. I suggested every few months. Since I did it in august again I figured October would be the next time to clean it. I do not want to be the only one to clean the fridge.

    Part of this is me feeling like as the admin people think it should be my job, but it really isn’t. I have a good relationship with my bosses so I could go to them but I don’t know how to put it without sounding whiny. Basically I don’t want to fall into the trap that admins = woman= domestic chores like cleaning. I work with mostly women (and I am a woman) so I don’t think this is a sexist thing.

    1. mreasy*

      You can’t. If you have a cleaning staff see if you can have them empty everything out of it save for condiments every Friday, so people know they have to remove by then – and if they don’t at least it doesn’t rot. This is the only thing I’ve ever seen work in my entire professional life.

      1. Reba*

        I agree with this. It sucks that it has to be someone’s (perhaps your) regular gig, but the best way to do it is a weekly or biweekly total removal. It is more manageable to do it frequently than to wait for science experiments to form. The other staff will never do this reliably if it is voluntary. Sorry.

      2. I'm just here for the cats*

        unfortunately our university rules is that custodians only take garbage and refill paper towel and soap dispensers in offices. any other cleaning is up to that office.

      3. WheresMyPen*

        Yep, we have a clear fridge on a Friday policy. You’ve got to be ruthless. That or insist that everything in there has to be named, but then it’s still someone’s job to chase Bob when his tuna salad has been stinking up the fridge for a week

      2. mreasy*

        My fear is nobody would do it without being hassled each time – but this is something to try if custodial staff can’t manage for sure.

      3. I'm just here for the cats*

        but that makes me the fridge police which I don’t want. Also I am not in charge of these people so I have no standing to say who does what or to demand anything.

      1. I'm just here for the cats*

        we are a counseling center so we do not have student workers because of the sensitive nature of having their peers coming in for mental health. plus there are rules about using student workers for certain tasks. of they signed up for custodian staff yes, but if their job was more in lines with being a receptionist or something we would not be able to give them tasks that don’t do anything for their role. sier of like some internships don’t allow interns to just be the coffee gopher. if a task doesn’t do anything for them to learn then we can’t add that task.

  108. swimberly*

    Does anyone have suggestions for good materials on being/becoming a mentor? I’m part of a professional development committee for my industry and we’ve been discussing that mentorship is real work that few people are actually trained to do and I’ve been trying to dig up some resources that we could discuss and share. I haven’t had great luck with Google or Amazon (lots of chaff to wade through), so I’m curious if anyone can recommend something that has worked for them.

    1. VLookupsAreMyLife*

      Are you only looking for personal recommendations? My org has a list of online resources we use as part of our mentoring program & I’d be happy to share below. But, I haven’t used them myself, so I don’t want to presume this would be helpful to you.

  109. Curmudgeon in California*

    So, my contract position wants to bring me on full time. Just found out today! Knowing the pace their bureaucracy moves, it’ll take about a month to process a second background check, drug screen, etc. I’m just hoping they don’t try to lowball me because it has vacation, etc. Currently I’m only paying $500/month for health insurance, so it’s not like that’s a big issue. Wish me lucky on the money!

  110. SDLivin*

    Hi, Everyone! Long time reader – never posted. I’m looking for insights on the best tools you’ve received from your company to develop you as a people manager. These could be books, company-specific approaches (like meetings with higher-ups), webinars, conferences, etc. Anything under the sun! In case it helps, my managers are primarily in the IT and business process re-engineering (BPR) fields. We typically are on contract with other companies who use our services – so they’re managing their team and also a client relationship. Thank you in advance for anything you may share!

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      Frankly, I love Alison’s managerial advice. Her scripts for tough conversations are the best.

  111. VLookupsAreMyLife*

    An employee I have recently inherited as part of an acquisition has an extremely annoying habit & I’m trying to decide if I’m in BEC territory, or if I should say something. Whenever they ask a question in an email they use TWO ?? at the end of every sentence, and there are always at least two questions. Example:

    Hi John,
    We received your email about the llama grooming reports, but there was nothing attached?? I’m not sure if this was a mistake?? Can you please check your records and send them over??

    Thanks!
    Employee

    This reads as overly aggressive / confused / frustrated and it irks me every time I see it.

    Add’l factors for consideration: this person is in their 50s, has worked in professional, office settings for decades, is a native English speaker (USA), and uses relatively appropriate grammar & punctuation otherwise. They are also older than I by about 10-15 years, so I am reluctant to attempt coaching via the “hey, you might not be aware, but …” route. They are already not loving having to take a step back in their career and I am not their favorite boss ever.

    So, what say you, AAM friends?? Do I say something?? Let it go??

    1. Bookgarden*

      Oh gosh I feel this. My MIL does this with every question she asks me in a text message. At first I thought it was extremely aggressive until I realized it’s just a style thing and nothing personal. I would just chalk it up as a quirk if this happened with my employee, but if you think this might cause friction with clients or other teams they work with it’s probably worth saying something.

    2. Seasonally Shiftless*

      Can’t say I find it aggressive, but this reminds me of my teenage daughter’s writing style. I’d have a hard time taking this seriously from a coworker or vendor.

    3. PollyQ*

      Make like Elsa and Let It Go. Not important in the grand scheme of things, and definitely not worth burning goodwill over in an already rocky boss/employee relationship.

    4. Reba*

      This is not a helpful reply. But, this did remind me of a former boss who made very liberal use… Of ellipses…
      On all of her communication unless it was very formal like a response to an RFQ…

      I would regularly have to type emails she dictated (lots of car time going to job sites) and I wanted them to read like her writing…
      But I always found it hard to override my own impulse to be intelligible and like, just end the dang sentence…

    5. Dark Macadamia*

      This looks like how I would text my sister about something weird that happened at the grocery store lol. To me multiple ??? are more about tone (upspeak, astonishment, humorous effect, the audacity? that someone would do this??) and don’t actually make sense for a normal question where you actually want an answer!

      If they do this with clients/public you might want to remind them of your company’s proofreading standards but otherwise I suggest you just amuse yourself imagining that they are deeply astonished by mundane tasks

    6. Anon4This*

      I’d say to let it go and possibly reframe it as them trying to make questions stand out more in a paragraph. I’m not sure that’s actually what they’re trying to do, but maybe it’ll help it feel less annoying if you can pretend it has some sort of purpose.

      I do also note that none of those are actually questions. They’re all statements with question marks at the end.

      1. Anon4This*

        Darn…tried to fix my name and it posted before I was ready.

        Anyway, I wonder if the double question mark could be a way of trying to emphasize that the statement is meant as a question. Still really weird, but again maybe less off-putting with some type of explanation??

  112. TWWannabe*

    I’m interested in getting started in tech writing and have a question for tech writers and other communication experts. One piece of advice I keep encountering to develop a portfolio is to jump in and participate in open source documentation projects. I don’t believe I heard of anyone who was actually hired, or had hired, anyone that did this.

    Have any of you ever found this strategy useful for creating a portfolio that helped get you hired? If you hire, does this interest you? Would creating original demo documentation for products and services that already exist be welcome? Any help or insight is greatly appreciated!

  113. Seasonally Shiftless*

    I took the first of a series of tests I need to complete to get my professional qualifications and I passed! Time to start studying for my next one, but I’m feeling more confident now. I’m so excited!

  114. Seasonally Shiftless*

    Can’t say I find it aggressive, but this reminds me of my teenage daughter’s writing style. I’d have a hard time taking this seriously from a coworker or vendor.

  115. Angry*

    I…just got laid off due to budget reason. And apparently I’m the first of many.

    What do I do now? How did everyone process their layoff?? I have savings to cover me for a few months rent but this economy has me stressing.

    I’m swinging between so many emotions: anger, sadness, humor to laugh things off.

    I still need to read through my severance letter which is only two weeks of pay.

    :/

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      I’m so sorry to hear this. I’ve been there and it is not fun. Please don’t take it personally.
      Please take a day or two to wallow and feel bad. Then I would dig into the AAM job search archives and revamp my resume and start applying to jobs like it’s your full-time job.
      You’ll be in the Friday Good News soon, I’m sure!!
      Good luck

  116. Mask x Metal*

    I’ve always wanted to pierce my nose and lip, but I’ve never worked anywhere that allows anything more “alternative” than double-pierced earlobes. Since everything is still masks-on where I live, and I’d like to find a new job for reasons outside this, I was thinking maybe I could get the piercings now: my current job wouldn’t be any the wiser, and then I can apply to new jobs already having face metal? If I already have something like that and they hire me anyway, that means I’m set, right?

    Maybe that’s a bad plan to begin with, I don’t know. I *also* don’t know whether my new job would even know – unless I have a Zoom interview, how would they know, after all? I’m not sure when/how I would bring this up during interviews?

    If anyone’s been in a similar situation on either side, or has any input or advice, I’d appreciate it!

    2. Specialized Skillets*

      This is a super late reply, but I say do it now! You can put clear retainers in the piercings after they’ve healed if needed (for interviews, etc).

      FWIW I’m in local government and we have people as high up as Division leaders with facial piercings. I’m a higher level individual contributor and wear a small labret.

  117. Valentine*

    So I graduated from college in 2020 and had been unemployed ever since. My problem is keeping myself occupied when I’m not in the mood to do the things I usually do, like reading, writing, editing, and watching shows. Do I have too much time in my hands or that I just need to have a strict routine so I can keep myself busy? I want to know how else people occupy their time while unemployed.

    1. Gary Patterson's Cat*

      When I was on unemployment during 2009-2010 I spent my time: a) job searching, b) working 2 part-time marketing jobs and whatever graphic design freelance gigs I could muster, and c) going to college to finish my degree (one job was at the college). Survival was the key word here. I had a mortgage and bills to pay while I was taking classes. Thankfully, once I graduated, I finally found full-time work again.

      Not to judge you, but yeah, maybe you have a little too much time on your hands if you’re asking how to fill your time. I don’t know how you’re able to survive 2 years without income or unemployment?

      If you have nothing to do in the job search, you could try volunteering someplace in your community or take a part-time job somewhere.

      1. Valentine*

        I’m still living with my parents.

        I’m job searching now too. It’s hard trying to get a job because I don’t have experience. Should I try temp agencies?

      2. Irish Teacher*

        To be fair, if somebody is unemployed, I’m assuming it’s because they haven’t been able to get a job, full or part-time. I’m sure they would take a job if it were offered to them, but jobs aren’t that easy to come by

        Valentine, it’s always hard to get a first job out of college. Did you do any part-time work as a college student or holiday work? Trying temp agencies sounds like a good idea and possibly widening your job search. I know the latter can be difficult if you don’t have savings and can’t afford to move for work. Are you only applying for jobs in your field or have you applied for other things as well?

        As Gary Patterson’s Cat says, volunteer work (if there is some available in your area) is a good way both to pass the time and to get some experience.

        I think most people are bored when long-term unemployed. Applying for jobs only takes so much of the day and you are often on a tight budget so you don’t have the options for fun that others might have.

        It also can get harder to get a job if you have been unemployed for a while, so temping or volunteer work, if you can get it would probably be worth trying

        1. Valentine*

          Thank you. I’ll try temp agencies.

          I didn’t work any part time jobs in college. I could only focus on school at that point.

          I applied jobs in my field and also jobs outside of my field.

          I can get interviews, but I can never get the job. It’s hard.

  118. Luna*

    I’m all for accommodations to working parents to a reasonable degree, but I do have a question in regards to a coworker of mine. She works on alternating shifts, so one week she works the early shift, the next week she works the closing shift, this is done in opposite way of her husband’s work. If she works the early shift at her job, that’s the week he works a later shift at his job, and vice-versa. (And the husband does not work at our store, he works somewhere entirely else, just so this isn’t misread as them working alternate shifts at the same job) This is done so that there is always a parent around to take care of the kids.

    But their children are 16 and 10 years old. I could understand if they were 10 and 6 years old, perhaps, but shouldn’t a teenager and an almost-preteen be capable of staying at home for a few hours and be just fine? I probably am seeing this from a very different standpoint because I was raised by a single, full-time working mother from schoolage onward, and by the age of 16, I was left alone after school, and even spent 2 weeks alone at home when my mom went on vacation.

    And a few quick points, before anyone wants to add things.
    It’s not illegal here in Germany to leave someone in their teens alone, and it’s very common for teenaged children to keep an eye overall on their younger siblings. Neither of their kids have any kind of mental or physical development issues, so it’s not like they require extra care that would mean they cannot be left alone, at all.

    I guess I’m just a bit miffed that this coworker’s schedule tends to affect mine, in the sense that I ‘have’ to take over the other half of the day shift and I don’t like alternating shifts all that much. My store has a total staff of four people, the two of us, our store manager that does work some shifts at our store, but tends to work at the other store more often, and one coworker that has been off sick for weeks and might not be coming back, at all.

    1. Esmeralda*

      If you don’t like your shifts, address that issue with your boss and leave your coworker (or her husband) out of it.

      Can kids that age be left alone? Sure. Every week? Not so much. The time my attest too— is it every day when they’re getting up for school? At bedtime? Dinner time?

      I think teens actually need their parents around more than you might expect.

      2. Luna*

        I am still in the probationary period and I don’t want to rock the boat too much, I am too afraid of losing my first job after another round of two years of unemployment. And there’s not much she can do, we don’t have one employee that would be needed to take over shifts if I put my foot down on not alternating all the time.

        And I have talked with my boss about the coworker off sick and the lack of coverage, and she can’t just tell the higher ups to let us hire someone. They are the ones that decide that.

    2. Irish Teacher*

      As a teacher, I would say it VERY much depends on the kids in question. Some 16 year olds could easily be left in charge of a 10 year old sibling. In fact, some could probably care for a 10 year old sibling for a couple of days. Others really could not be trusted alone in the house.

      You mention that neither child has any mental or physical development issues, but do you know if either has any behavioural or mental health issues? Or what the relationship between the two children is? Does the 10 year old respect the 16 year old? Would the 16 year old be able to prevent the 10 year old doing something dangerous or irresponsible or would the 10 year do the opposite of what the 16 year old said on the grounds that “you’re not my mum/dad. You can’t tell me what to do.”

      If the 10 year old is disrespectful or has behavioural problems, it might not be fair to expect a 16 year old to babysit them.

      And that is a minor issue. Do you know about the 16 year old’s peer group? Are they the type likely to think “great! Free house!” and perhaps use the house for parties or taking drink or drugs? Does the 16 year old have a significant other that they might behave irresponsibly with?

      Could either kid have mental health issues? A teenager who is self-harming or who suffers from addiction might need supervision. Or a teenager with severe anxiety might not feel comfortable caring for a younger child. Equally, a teenager might not feel comfortable caring for a young child with mental health difficulties.

      Some colleagues of mine were once discussing whether they would rather be stay-at-home parents when their kids were preschoolers or when they were teenagers and some people said they would prefer to have the option to stay home when their kids were teens because you never know. While many teens are perfectly capable of remaining at home by themselves, others are very likely to get into serious trouble, possibly even trouble with the law.

      It sounds like you were a sensible teen, but not all are. As a teacher, I have some 16 year old student with whom I almost feel embarrassed enforcing certain rules because they have the maturity level of an adult and insisting they get their journal signed to go to the bathroom or something feels silly. Then I have other 16 year old students who quite frankly I try not to even turn to write on the board while in the classroom, because if I turn my back, they get up to something stupid. A couple of years ago, I was supervising a class of 16-18 year olds. I didn’t teach them myself so didn’t know their maturity levels and thought “oh, they’ll be will able to work away by themselves. I can just tell them what work the teacher has left for them and then get on with some planning.” Well, that didn’t work. I literally had to stand, watching them for the entire 40 minutes because they would behave/do their work only if I were watching them. If I so much as looked down at my books to plan, they were flicking things at each other, pushing each other and otherwise behaving like 10 year olds. Some of them I would not trust to stay alone; I certainly wouldn’t trust them to mind a younger child.

      Given how careful the parents are about ensuring somebody is home, I think it very likely one of the kids has some kind of needs or that there is some behavioural issue. Perhaps the older bullies the younger. Perhaps the older has an addiction. Perhaps one is very poorly behaved. Perhaps one of them has anxiety and fears being alone. Perhaps one has an eating disorder and needs supervision to ensure they eat. Perhaps one is dealing with school refusal. Perhaps one DOES have a disability you don’t know about. It could be 101 things.

      Heck, there are plenty of full grown adults one wouldn’t trust to mind one’s ten year old, either because they are irresponsible or because they would treat them poorly. There may be many reason why it would not be a good idea to leave these children alone. Given what you have said, I would guess something is going on that you don’t know about.

      1. Luna*

        By saying no mental or physical issues, I meant in terms of health and behavior. They are perfectly okay kids.

  119. Nope*

    The thing is why is this your business? This is the arrangement the couple have made and your workplace is good with it so…..

  120. Day Dreamer*

    Plant question: I have a great new job but a windowless office. What plants will tolerate this best? Is there a not-too-bulky light i can get to help?

  121. Nora*

    Is it weird for me to bring a suitcase to the office?

    I’m a mostly remote employee in my first job out of college. The office buildings are open everyday, but the company culture is where everyone goes in once a month on a specific day to network and socialize. My team is assigned to the primary headquarters in the downtown area, but the company has a secondary headquarters in the suburbs, about 15 minutes from a major airport. I’m taking a vacation and have a flight in the evening, and it would be MUCH more convenient for me to work at the secondary headquarters and go to the airport directly after work instead of commuting from my apartment in the city during rush hour. My manager said it’s totally fine for me to work in the suburban headquarters occasionally.

    The day I want to go to the secondary headquarters is not one of the monthly networking days, so I would probably be sitting in an open plan office by myself. Would it look unprofessional if I bring my luggage (for vacation, not a work trip) with me and keep it under my desk? I don’t a have a car to keep it in either.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Not weird. I’ve done that before, it might be weird in a suburb type office where majority drive to work, but pretty common in cities with public transit and airports. Once had a backpacking backpack under my desk. Two people noticed but both were the excited to talk about hiking type.

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