open thread – October 21-22, 2022

by Alison Green on October 21, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Fragile Bird Bones*

    I find myself confused by FML. I’m a frequent bone breaker. In 2019, I broke a leg bone and had to be non-weight-baring for 2 months. During that time, I had 2-3 physical therapy appointments every week to regain. Because of such frequent time off, not having enough sick leave to cover the appointments, and adding them to my calendar with short notice, I applied for and was granted FML. I still worked at my job but I took the time I needed for my appointments every week. My supervisor and coworkers all knew why I was frequently out of the office and it was never an issue with work load.

    Last year and at a new job; I broke my hand. It was a difficult break that was hard to diagnose. I went through 2 casts, 4 x-rays, and a MRI. Though I had several appointments, I did not apply for FML; I didn’t think I needed to because I had the leave to cover it. My time off was not critiqued in my evaluation. This year, I’ve broken my ankle, still at the same job I broke my hand. I only had two doc appointments but now I need physical therapy; just a few sessions over a month. Though I have the leave to cover it, I’ve been advised that I should apply for FML because it will protect my time off from negativity affecting my yearly evaluation (my supervisor said it’s highly unlikely it would but it would be extra protection for me).

    I mainly thought FML was for unpaid time off and very long running or frequent issues. Should I be applying to FML for every broken bone if I know it will be more than two appointments even if I have the paid leave? I’m soon going to be working with my doctor on my bone density so these breaks happen less to me. Should I get FML for that if it will be several appointments for one issue? When does FML come into effect?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Do you have a known underlying cause for the breaks? I would suggest applying for intermitten FMLA (which would cover a long term issue that you anticipate will require unexpected time off over an extended period of time) but you do need your doctor to sign off on it – so I’d start by having a conversation with your doctor about at least exploring an underlying cause (that might be the bone denisty test, or something else). The exploration period can also be covered by FMLA but you’ll want your doctor to be part of the conversation.

      1. ferrina*

        Yep, def talk to your doctor. There’s a several underlying conditions that can cause bones to break more easily. It’s worth knowing if you have one of these conditions.

        1. EJ*

          My husband and son both have osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bones) so I am just popping in with sympathy! Frequent fractures are so challenging.

    2. Harried HR*

      I think you FMLA (FML means F*ck My Life!!)

      FMLA is up to 12 weeks of Unpaid Leave (job protection) in a rolling 12 month period. It is irrelevant haw many times you use it, which is why Intermittent FMLA is a thing. The key point is the 12 weeks of job protection and the rolling 12 month calendar.

      Short answer… yes take the leave when you need it.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Lol. Ah that’s good. Is there a site for regular people about this? I have a lot of questions.

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Woah that’s confusing. I’m supposed to go on fmla if I get a virus and need to rest for a week. This website is confusing me more

      2. JanetM*

        I’m nitpicking here, but I think FMLA is Family Medical Leave Act, and FML is Family Medical Leave (as well as F* my life).

      4. Chilipepper Attitude*

        So you take FML and can get paid (if you have the sick time or whatever)?

        Is that right?

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          The most common scenario is people use FML if they run out of sick time or will be out for a significant period of time. FML itself is unpaid, but employers may have other policies or let you use your accrued time concurrently. The biggest thing with FML is job protection. You can’t be fired, demoted, or penalized for taking protected leave.

      5. FMLA Weirdness*

        FMLA isn’t always a rolling 12 months, employers can choose to use one of four different options, they just have to specify which one they’re using in their FMLA policy and stick to it. I believe it’s either calendar year, a fixed 12 month period, a 12 month period looking forward, or the rolling option.

    3. Zephy*

      The Family Medical Leave Act makes it illegal for your employer to discipline or terminate you specifically due to needing time off for a medical condition. It’s like putting a bookmark on your job so you can step away to handle [PT/post-childbirth recovery/cancer treatment/mental health treatment, etc, whether your own or someone else’s] without worrying about being fired or disciplined for absenteeism. (That’s how I understand it, please correct me if I’m wrong.)

      It’s probably a good idea to have the FMLA in place at this job and all future ones because this is a known issue for you, it will eventually affect your availability to work and you don’t want your boss to be able to fire or discriminate against your medical condition just because you didn’t file some paperwork.

      1. Snow Globe*

        Yes, that’s correct. The original purpose of the act was to protect jobs of people who need to be out for medical reason (theirs or their family members), which is why the act doesn’t specify if the leave is paid or not. I agree with always requesting FMLA to ensure absenteeism doesn’t become an issue.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        I had to be out for a month and a half after surgery, and my HR department required me to apply for FMLA even though I had PTO to cover it and my boss encouraged me to take all the time off I needed. It might just be “the way things are done”.

        1. I'm just here for the cats!*

          exactly, it’s so that if someone else in the company looks at the OP’s absenteeism they can see that it’s not just slacking off.

      3. JSPA*

        Yes!

        Even if the eventual diagnosis is “nah, just clumsy” (or “statistics, some people do happen to get hit twice by lightening, or break three bones in short order”) rather than something systemic with your bones–or your reaction time?

        There presumably will either be a barrage of tests to rule out an underlying problem, or some sort of ongoing testing and therapy (whether it’s metabolic / nutritional or mindfullness / volitional or, well, whatever!) to treat an underlying problem.

        The only reason not to take it is if you suspect something underlying that’s so serious, that you need to horde those 12 weeks of leave for [insert serious thing with serious recovery time].

    4. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      When you broke your hand, how long had you been with your new company? If it was less than a year, your boss may not have suggested it then because you wouldn’t have qualified for FMLA, but is suggesting it now because you do. I wouldn’t necessarily read an implied threat, but companies don’t close the book on absenteeism when the first issue is resolved and start over; there is a cumulative effect. They’re going to be keeping track of all the time off from the hand break AND the ankle break, and any other leave, from now on.

      1. Mockingjay*

        It’s worth asking even if you haven’t been with a company for a year. The law kicks in at one year of employment, but companies can make exceptions on their own.

        One more note for OP: FML is usually granted after an employee has used up their leave. Find out what your company policy is. Mine allowed me to take a month of FML without using my remaining leave balance. It was nice not having to start banking leave all over again when I returned.

  2. Not a Tiger King Fan*

    What’s a script to shut down conversation with a coworker about a personal choice of theirs I disagree with?
    My coworker is getting an exotic pet. It’s legal in the state we live in, but I personally don’t think people should have them. If this was a friend of mine I would be laying out all the reasons I think this is a bad idea (an apartment isn’t enough space, working full time means you can’t fulfill social needs, the animal can potentially injure you- even accidentally, expensive care, it’s literally a wild animal not a domesticated species, etc). Further coloring my views, I worked at an exotic animal rescue years ago. We didn’t have any of that particular species, but lots of similar ones so I know just how hard the care is..
    When they first started talking about it I mentioned my concerns but they didn’t want to hear them. And they’re a coworker so it’s really not my business. But they’re excited and want to talk to me about it. I’ve so far managed to say polite nothings and run away but I’m looking for something so they stop bringing it up. Is “Due to my experience at [rescue] I’m not the right audience for this conversation.” too weird/mean? What should I say if they ask why. I can’t just come out and say “I think no one should have the animal you just paid a stupid amount of money for in their home.”
    I may be overthinking this, but I already dislike this coworker and they’re historically very thin-skinned so I need to be careful with my phrasing.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      “Due to my experience at [rescue] I’m not the right audience for this conversation” is the right combination of honesty and chilliness.

      I’d make it more clear by dropping the rescue thing – don’t give the coworker a wedge to object. “Due to my experience with feral ungulate I’m not the right audience…”

      1. Spicy Tuna*

        I like your second suggestion, and tone is very important here…I’d be a little concerned with just the rescue part that the coworker may think that OP is offering up their experience and therefore advice on the new pet.

    2. ErinB*

      I think that’s great phrasing, perhaps with the addition of a validating intro. “I know you’re really excited about this, but due to my experience at [rescue], I’m not the right audience to talk about this.”

      Delivered in a kind but unapologetic tone, this should be pretty clear.

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I think your line is fine. If they ask why you can say “I have strong feelings on the subject that I really don’t want to get into at work. Thank you for understanding.” and just repeat as needed. I know this is hard. Your tone will probably make a huge difference in how they receive it. I’d shoot for gentle/friendly and not saying it through gritted teeth with a look of disgust, yknow? Maybe practice that if the subject is an anger trigger for you. “Historically very thin-skinned” people are usually reactive to tone.

    4. Everything Bagel*

      Honestly, I think, “Due to my experience at [rescue] I’m not the right audience for this conversation,” is the perfect response. You’ll probably only need to say it once and won’t be asked to elaborate, but you should try for a friendly tone.

    5. bicality*

      Your phrasing is very similar to what I use. I don’t usually give any background reason, I just say “I’m not the right person to have this conversation with.” And repeat it if they press. Even if they have annoyed you enough to warrant the wrath of your actual opinion, it’s probably going to be more diplomatic to just refuse to participate in the conversation.

      And they might think refusing to participate is rude, but they had a chance to internalize how you felt about the situation and they chose to ignore it. Keeping it civil at work is all you’re bound to, at this point.

    6. Harried HR*

      Key Point here is you CANNOT control other people and their choices. You CAN control how you react.

      Behave like a Grey Rock with responses like Good for you, yes you already mentioned that, Ok…let’s talk about work topic.

      You already don’t like this person you don’t have to engage outside of a cordial working relationship.

      1. tessa*

        “Key Point here is you CANNOT control other people and their choices. You CAN control how you react.”

        …which is what LW is asking about, i.e. the one-line response (“reaction”) LW offered for discussion here.

    7. No Tribble At All*

      I think because you mentioned your initial concerns, you can say “look, I get you’re excited about Fluffy, but you remember I said before I think Komodo Dragons are too dangerous to be pets? I’m not the right person to talk to about this.”

      2. Marketing Ninja Unicorn*

        As someone who loves Komodo dragons (but recognizes they’re not meant to be pets!), I loved this example so much.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          I’m now imagining a Komodo dragon wandering around my small apartment. I suspect my cats would not be happy with the new roommate.

            1. Kay*

              There are not many times I find myself thankful I’m out of coffee. This is one of those times. Appreciate that laugh!

    8. KoiFeeder*

      I think “Due to my experience at [rescue] I’m not the right audience for this conversation.” is a reasonable thing to say- if they keep pushing at you or start giving you crap they’re the weird and rude one.

    9. SoloKid*

      I think your script is fine, and even beyond that, I would become a wet blanket by bringing up concerns with the same “enthusiasm”.

      Them: “Percy did a backflip today!”
      You: “They don’t do that in nature because XYZ predator would see them.”

      Do you have contacts at your animal rescue that could give you some scripts?

    10. DisneyChannelThis*

      I’m going to go against the majority here. I think if you go for a jugular, “stop them from ever mentioning it in my presence again” angle you’re likely not going to get the reaction you want. If you go for the strong anti reaction, you’re going to rally other coworkers and the individual to want to convince you to change your mind about it, and have wayyyyy more conversations regarding new pet. Coworker will feel like they need to justify ownership of pet. You might even have HR conversations about it if you or they make it super hostile. If it’s boring to talk about new pet to you (ie you grey rock politely) you’ll get less and less of it over time (its more fun to talk to other people about pet). I’d just keep grey rocking and changing the topic. (Leaves it open to interpretation, maybe OP doesn’t approve, maybe OP finds pets boring, maybe OP has phobia of pet, who knows not us lets get back to work)

      1. Not a Tiger King Fan*

        That’s what I’m afraid of too. And I know I’ll definitely having a hard time staying neutral in a prolonged conversation when I really just want to tell about ethics and animal welfare, lol

    11. Elle Woods*

      “Due to my experience at [rescue]…” is the perfect response, especially if delivered in a calm, even tone. Repeat as necessary.

    12. Posie*

      I would probably soften my tone a lot given that the coworker is thin-skinned. Something like, “I actually used to work for a rescue and saw a lot of unfortunate things happen when people adopted exotic animals. It’s kind of a sore spot for me, so it bothers me to talk about it in general.”

      And then when they inevitably say, “But it will be different for me because, blah blah blah…” Just smile regretfully and say, “I’m sorry, it *really* bothers me to discuss this. Can we not? Thanks for understanding.”

      1. Jessica*

        FWIW, this is the sentence I could imagine myself saying in a work context most easily. Or for an even softer approach, what about, “I’ve actually had some past bad experiences with pet lions, so the topic makes me really uncomfortable, can we not talk about it?” My guess is a thin-skinned person might be flattered to learn about your implied Secret Lion Tragedy and therefore respect your wishes to not bring it up. And your statement wouldn’t be untrue — you’ve seen some bad things happen with pet lions.

    13. Not teenage but still ninja turtle*

      I guess I’m going against the grain here, but I would consider a very confused look accompanied by “You know I used to for [rescue], so I’m not sure why you’re looking to me for support/enthusiasm. Let’s get back to [work topic].” I also feel strongly about this, so I would want it to be crystal clear from the get-go how I felt and that future discussion is not an option.

      3. MurpMaureep*

        I’d definitely fall into this camp (and also have very strong feelings about animal welfare and exotic pets).

        I think it’s totally valid to push back a bit while making clear you have no interest in engaging in the conversation. Not to be confrontational, per se, but to be firm that your stance has not and will not change.

      4. Irish Teacher*

        I’d be concerned that might get a response along the lines of “but surely you must LOVE exotic animal, since you worked for the rescue,” with the implication that therefore how can you NOT be excited to hear of all the cute things THEIR exotic animal did.

        I would guess the idea that they worked for the rescue makes the coworker think they’d be really interested in hearing about it, like one might expect somebody who works at a dog rescue to be interested in hearing about somebody’s new dog. I’m not saying it IS the same, just that the coworker probably sees it that way.

    14. Raw Flour*

      I think that’s a perfect script.

      I got a similar response once – although it wasn’t because my coworker disagreed with my personal choice*, but because it was an upsetting topic for them due to their past career. I was not offended and we moved on without my ever mentioning it again.

      *I mean, I’m making an assumption. The topic at hand was my volunteer work with an NGO, which I think is pretty unobjectionable.

    15. JSPA*

      I think you can even say, “I’m not the right audience for your enthusiasm. More specifically, I don’t want to give you the misleading sense that by talking to me, you’re being proactive, or preventing a bad outcome. Every owner we dealt with had been just as excited as you now are, and believed they had being proactive. And it still ended in tears and abandonment, if not injuries.”

      Because that’s the crux of the matter, isn’t it? They’re telling themselves that they’re talking to a subject matter expert, which is making them feel better about the process. I think you CAN name that dynamic, and insist on stepping out of that dynamic, without straight-out saying, “this is a sucky idea.”

      And you’re not even saying it’s a sucky idea; you’re saying that no amount of talking to you is going to make the idea better, or more foolproof. That’s a completely legitimate point, with anyone.

      (In terms of pure formal logic, it’s of course possible that some such “adoptions” do work out–and those are the ones that rescue operations never see.)

      1. Not a Tiger King Fan*

        To be clear, I’m not an expert and they don’t think I am. It’s more just coming up in small talk and I know I’m not able to fake even a little bit of enthusiasm for it.
        I just don’t think a social and intelligent animal should be kept in an apartment. At zoos there’s a staff of people to make sure the animals are getting everything they need physically and mentally with enrichment and training. And the animals are kept in groups for socializing. We work in an office so there’s no way they can provide that level of interaction since they’re gone for 8+ hours a day.

        1. Me ... Just Me*

          I’ll be honest that I think you should just change the subject or grey rock them. No need to even interject your thoughts of disproval or prior experience as it will only end badly. If something is legal and all that, it should get a “social pass” at work. I need to do this with all sorts of things that my coworkers are excited about but that I think are ill-advised. I don’t tell them not to talk about it, but I do just grey rock the conversation.

          1. Not a Tiger King Fan*

            That makes total sense. I’d rather not have to hear about it at all, but after talking through it more here, I think saying something would just lead to attempted justification and then arguments.

        2. Marna Nightingale*

          It is possible depending on your office culture that this is too chilly for you to use without it turning into A Thing but no, you’re not being too mean. At all.

          On related matters I have occasionally resorted flat-out to:

          “Velociraptors shouldn’t be kept as pets. It’s a bad life for them. You’re not going to change my mind. So this isn’t a conversation you want to have with me. And since there’s nothing I can do to change your mind, it’s not a conversation I want to have with you.”

          And if they persist, you can choose between “No, thank you!” and just wandering off quietly.

          (If you’re minded to, you could keep the number and address of the closest good velociraptor rescue centre handy, because we all know the day will come.)

          1. Marna Nightingale*

            As you said you don’t want to give them anything to argue with, I should add that the bits around the core of it can be tweaked. The core is 1) “I don’t want to discuss how cute your velociraptor is, and I’m not going to”, with or without the implied “and if you keep asking me what I think, I WILL tell you.”

    16. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      “As I’ve said before, my experience with exotic animal rescue has left me with considerable health and safety concerns for both the animal and the owner in these situations, and I’m not able to get excited about this, or even continue this conversation.” Exit Stage Left.

      1. Chilipepper Attitude*

        And if they continue, It’s weird that you keep talking about this after I asked you not to.

    17. HannahS*

      If you want to avoid fallout because this person is thin-skinned:
      “Well, I hope it goes well. Can we talk about [work thing]? I was hoping to get your opinion of [work task.]”

      I find it easier to say something if I know it isn’t a lie. I’m sure that you DO hope that it goes well and not like it went in other cases.

    18. marvin*

      I think it depends on whether it’s more important to you to keep the peace or to not have to hear about this. I think it’s very reasonable to not want to hear about something that upsets you at work, and your coworker is being rude because they know how you feel. I understand why it can be worth it to sometimes put up with suboptimal behaviour from coworkers but if you’re finding that it really bothers and distracts you to be confronted by this topic at work, I think it’s okay to recognize and prioritize that.

    19. Contracts Killer*

      Wow, I’ve never had a situation that I’m so qualified to answer (for better or worse). I am an officer and foster for an exotic rescue. I’ve seen the absolute worst case scenarios for an unfortunate amount of things. Here are my go-to ways of handling things when a coworker, friend, or family says they plan to get an exotic pet:
      – Hey, I have some experience with X animal and can probably save you a lot of money and headaches if you want to talk before you get it.
      – Did you know you can get X animal from Y rescue, you don’t have to go through a breeder or pet store? There are so many that are surrendered because they’re much more expensive/destructive/whatever than people anticipate.
      -Were you able to find an exotic vet? In my experience, most have a multi-month wait list and an appointment will cost you about $200 just to get in the door. Exotic vets are recommending holding off on getting new animals until the vet shortage is better.

      Those approaches generally get people to genuinely want additional information from me, quietly walk away and come to their own realization that it’s a terrible idea, or try to argue. For those that argue (and while he’s not arguing, I’d put your coworker in this group because you’ve already expressed that it’s not a great idea and he’s proceeding anyway):
      – I appreciate that you are excited, but I have seen the heartbreak of surrendered animals that miss their families or have severe medical problems because well-intentioned people didn’t know how to properly care for them or didn’t have the resources. I’m sorry, but I can’t be the audience for your excitement about an exotic pet.

      That’s a buzzkill, room-clearing response that is very likely to shut down all future attempts at conversation and you’re never finger pointing or saying that coworker will be one of those people (though it’s heavily implied).

      Oh, and PSA for anyone reading this – there are more than just puppy mills. When you get a small animal from a pet store or farm store, it has likely come from a rat/guinea pig/mouse mill and pet store pets receive minimal or no vet care. Our rescue receives calls A LOT from employees that were directed to put sick animals in the trash, hide them in the back until they died, or sell them knowing that they were sick. If you want an exotic or farm pet, search for rescues first. You might be surprised at the kinds of animals that are available (and we spay/neuter and use foster homes for socialization).

      1. Not a Tiger King Fan*

        That’s super helpful! Unfortunately they already got the animal but I’ll remember those lines.

  3. Orange Crushed*

    I overheard my boss talking to my manager on the phone about me. We had a meeting and then after the meeting, my manager called the manager who sits directly across from me. They were talking about me! I sit right there so obviously they wanted me to hear it.

    I wanted to say, “Is there something that you want to say to me?” They don’t know how to talk to people. Example: My manager turned the ringer up on my phone because I didn’t answer when he called me (I was in a meeting), instead of talking to me about it. (A coworker told me this after I nearly jumped out of my seat because of the sound.)

    After our meeting my boss seemed mad or something because when I turned in a form to take a day off, she said that I had to talk to people to see if it was okay, but no one does that! We just fill out the form and turn it in. I just wanted one day off and it is for a wedding next month- my coworker said that he gave a one day notice about taking a week off and she approved it! Wtf? I just want 1 day!

    The next day my manager called me and acted nice, which seemed fake and obvious.

    I don’t know why I’m held to a different standard. I also don’t know why they can’t speak to you directly when there’s a problem.

    Any advice? What would you do in these situations?

    1. Everything Bagel*

      Regarding the day off, I would say in the moment, “I thought the process is just turning the form, so has the process changed?” And then just let her answer. If she says yes it’s changed say, “I’m sorry, I didn’t see that communication. Was it emailed or posted somewhere?” At least then she’ll have to explain herself better and you are asking honest questions without any sort of attitude about it.

    2. Everything Bagel*

      The ringer thing is weirdly passive aggressive when she could have just asked you if you were away from your desk when she was trying to contact you. I would put a piece of tape over it so it can’t easily be adjusted again, if that’s possible. I had to do that on an old desk phone that I would always accidentally turn the ringer up just moving things around and had to put tape over it to keep it from happening. Who knows what other goofy things should come up with though. She sounds like a jerk.

        3. NaoNao*

          I suspect the line of thinking was that if the OP was somewhere in a 10′ radius they could hear the phone and rush over.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Aside from looking for another job, what I do when I’m stuck in a situation surrounded by passive-aggressive people is become deliberately obtuse /oblivious about what they are implying. Take everything exactly at face value and be very literal.

      If they say, “It’s fine,” in a tone that implies it’s not fine, I say “Great!” and act like it’s actually fine. If they say I have to ask people for time off, I go around and say “Betty said I needed you to approve my time off.”

      The only way to win that game is not to play at all.

      1. WellRed*

        I agree here. Either your boss has taken a dislike to you or they treat anyone in the role this way. Either way, you can’t win.

      2. MurpMaureep*

        I’ve worked with a lot of weirdly passive aggressive people in my career, and I come from a family whose native language is passive aggression. I’ve also found that the best response is to kill with kindness. Take them entirely at face value, be upbeat, do not rise to the bait or snipe back…that’s what they want.

        This can be even more effective with those who have power and authority over you because if they become actively combative they risk invoking HR/policy protocols and then you can document their inconsistencies.

        1. Lana Kane*

          I dealt with this a lot in patient-facing jobs in healthcare and that was exactly my approach. I have had to occasionally use it with managers as well, and it’s worked as long as I try really hard to cover the annoyance on my face!

          The example that comes to mind is actually with a coworker. Every morning there was a staff huddle and each team had to have 1 representative. It wasn’t my day to attend but I sat very close by. The admin assistant, who was on the more aggressive side of passive-aggressive, read out names of people who had made some sort of small mistake and said they were on her shit list. I was one of those names. I went over and said “I heard my name, is there something I can help with?” – the look on her face was pretty great. Never happened again.

    4. Books and Cooks*

      What was your manager saying about you, that you overheard? What was the meeting about? Is your position the same as the others in your workplace, or do you have a different job that might require a different procedure for requesting days off?

      What’s the general atmosphere in your workplace like?

      Sorry, I want to help, but without knowing the situation I don’t know what to say.

    5. Michelle Smith*

      I’d look for a new job, personally. This is not a healthy work environment and I can’t work for petty, vindictive people.

    6. Sabine the Very Mean*

      Nasty. It doesn’t matter who you are or what they might think of you as a person or employee; this is just gross behavior. Get out. ASAP.

    7. Linda*

      IME people act like this when they know, at least subconsciously, that their negative feelings are unreasonable. They don’t like the color of your clothes, or what school you went to, or that you eat turkey sandwiches for lunch, and since they can’t force you to wear pastels or what have you, and they can’t manage their feelings, it comes out as passive-aggressiveness. Also a lot of people are plain bullies.

      I agree with the other commenters that it’s time to job search.

      1. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

        Ugh! So many grown ass adults in the workplace like to be bullies or find a scapegoat. It’s so ridiculous and like they never got past high school.
        Just WHY? Are so many Americans that stunted emotionally?

  4. Help Me Rhonda*

    I need help adjusting to what I think is a good workplace being mared by my past bad work experiences.

    I started a new job 6 months ago- it’s SO much better than my past jobs- better people, lighter workload, higher pay and it’s in big tech. The biggest adjustment is my boss is much more hands on- she’s pretty involved in my projects where as my old bosses were not involved unless I had an issue. It’s not in a micromanagement way, moreso she prefers to be the point of contact when working with senior leadership and she sometimes takes on deliverables in my project that past bosses would absolutely not touch at all. She gives me a lot of praise (even when I feel I don’t deserve it) whereas past jobs I got not much. Additionally, she’s the nicest human ever.

    Sound great right? But I can’t help but feel super paranoid something is off. I understand due to my past jobs (hello BigLaw!), I may have gotten a warped view of the way ppl work. One big thing is she doesn’t provide constructive criticism the way past managers did- she does tell me when she wants me to change the way I’m doing something but she doesn’t really stress how critical things are. I can’t tell if she is too nice and doesn’t want to hurt my feelings- or is it that my past jobs have just been so crazy, they would freak out over little things (I am aware enough to know no mistakes I’ve made have been truly critical to the business, just peoples egos)

    The past few work years have been rough and I really am welcoming a lighter workload and not needing to handle people dynamics or office politics. I don’t really want to rock the boat and take on more work but I also don’t want to be blindsided come review time (1 month until our officially 6 month check in) and I especially do not want to lose this job. How do I quell my paranoia while keeping things the same?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Yeah, I think you’ve definitely been warped by past jobs.

      BigLaw tends to make every single document The. Most. Important. Filing. Of. All. Time. I think the partners foster that as a way to squeeze more hours out of the scrambling associate attorneys, and then that all rolls downhill to paralegals and support staff. They also conflate importance and urgency.

      You know, of course, that logically the 17th draft of the real estate sale-leaseback agreement between Acme Llama Farms and Teapot Land Management Trust III is just another piece of paper. So when you feel a sense of doubt or paranoia, just take a moment and make a dispassionate analysis of how important your particular task really is.

      Also, make it a habit to ask your boss about what’s critical and urgent. “NewThing sounds important – should I do it before OldThings 1 and 2?”

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        Having been in BigLaw and also in-house, this is exactly right. BigLaw treats every little nitpicky error as The End Of The World How Could This Happen How Can We Go On! In-house is much more of a “good enough, don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good” vibe. There just isn’t time or incentive in house to sweat the small stuff.

    2. LDN Layabout*

      Check in with them explicitly about this (that’s it). If they’re a nice person who already values your work, it will go fine.

      I had to do this with a manager (manages work but not me) recently since my current job is reasonably new, in a slightly different area to what I was doing previously and more senior. So while she was friendly and there’d been good feedback, I felt a lot better saying ‘I’m still not familiar enough with X to identify if what I did with Y had any issues. Please let me know if you catch something I didn’t.’

      You’ll likely end up in the same situation as me where the response was: No, it’s all great and having you here is helpful. Keep doing what you’re doing.

      1. WoodswomanWrites*

        Seconding this. In my first few months at a new and good workplace, I was walking on eggshells based on my bad experience at my previous job. I brought it up directly with my manager. She was glad I said something, and reassured me that everything was fine. That’s all I needed to let go of all that old stuff.

    3. learnedthehardway*

      It takes a while to get over a bad work environment. When I was very young, I worked for a psychologically abusive manager (who knew exactly what he was doing). After 2 years of that environment, it took me another 2 years to recover and feel comfortable in a work environment again.

      With your manager, since she seems like a very good person, I would tell her that you need her to be direct about what she wants you to change and with what she wants you to take on / what the priority work is. I would tell her that your prior company was very high stress and that you are loving the more people-friendly culture, but that it would help you for her to be quite clear and direct with you about what she wants you to focus on.

    4. Sparrow*

      If she’s telling you when you need to do something differently, I think that IS constructive criticism – what you’re doing isn’t working; I need you to do it like this instead. I suspect the criticism you’re used to wasn’t actually that constructive, and I’d guess your boss isn’t freaking out because 1) the issues aren’t actually freak-out worthy and 2) she doesn’t need to freak out for you to take the correction seriously and do as asked. I think you’re probably fine, but since you have a reasonable boss, I think it doesn’t hurt just to ask her directly for feedback!

      1. All Het Up About It*

        I suspect the criticism you’re used to wasn’t actually that constructive

        This is so good! OP – Please read Sparrow’s sentence several times!!!

        Now – it’s possible that you’d like your boss to not only tell you what she wants you to do differently, but also why and that’s fine. (Sometimes – don’t do it all the time!) Is that also something that is bothering you? I’m a big “like to know why” person, so I have learned to in the work place 1) do my own research a lot of the time 2) Reply to a correction with “Oh absolutely I can do that. Do we do it that way because…..*insert some possible observation/research I made* 3) Sure! I can make that change going forward. Is there a particular reason we use the Goldenrod paper for Accounts Receivable, when we use the Mint for Accounts Payable?

        Als0 – If you want to have feed back prior to your formal evaluation – ask for it! In a 1:1, state, I know we’ll have our formal 6 month check in a month, but do you have any feed back for me that I can work on prior to that?

        And don’t be afraid to ask if her involvement in how she will always handle things, or if it’s because you are still so new!! It’s quite possible that she’ll be less hands off, or let you play point with leadership after you’ve been there for longer than 5 months.

        It really, really sounds like you are letting past toxic work experiences amp up your anxiety. There’s not perfect way to recover from that other than time, but just keep reminding yourself that your past experiences WERE toxic.

        And read Sparrow’s statement again.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Exactly, “I need you to do it this way in the future” is the best way to deliver actionable constructive criticism when A) the employee doesn’t resist feedback and B) the mistake wasn’t that serious.

        You mentioned that you’re concerned about your upcoming performance review. Ask your manager about it! Ask if you’re meeting expectations, which areas you need to work on, how good your work has been overall. If you start feeling comfortable, ask about what you would need to do to get a promotion; that will give you some stretch goals to work on.

    5. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      My therapist likes to remind me to think about “what I know to be true at that moment.” So, based on what you described, all you know to be true is that you have a nice manager, a more manageable workload, and a 6-month review coming up. That’s it. I also work in Big Tech, and if your manager really is a good manager, they won’t surprise you with something major in your review. They’ll likely start with asking how things are going, and then have some things to share with you about what they’re seeing. It does NOT sound like you will be terminated. Ultimately, the only advice I have I have is each time you have those negative thoughts, ask yourself what you know to be true. Even take some deep breaths. Sounds like working in Big Law was traumatic, and it will take time to reset your central nervous system and thought patterns from that environment. It just will. I promise you will eventually get into the rhythm of the new job and industry. Think about how you’ll look back on this at your 1-year review. It will get better. And boo to your previous employer for being such a toxic environment!

      Not sure if this is allowed, but if you and I work at the same Big Tech company, maybe we can find some way to connect. Does your employer start with an M and end with a T :)

    6. Mockingjay*

      I think what’s missing is context for the changes. How do Boss’s changes fit into the workflow? Are her comments simply review comments at this point? Affect the due date?

      It’s an everyday conversation: “Hey, Boss, your feedback on the last few items seem to be about X. Is X something I need to know more about, or do you normally provide inputs for X?” As others have suggested, ask about priorities: “I’m happy to make these changes, but I also have Y and Z in my queue. Can you tell me what to prioritize?”

      Ask in the moment as things come up. These are normal business questions and you’re still learning at this point.

    7. Michelle Smith*

      Story time – My very first annual review post law school I was told that I wasn’t meeting expectations with client and opposing counsel follow-up. Apparently there had been a couple of complaints about how long it took me to return voicemails/emails. This was exceptionally frustrating for me because (1) no one had given me any information at the time of the complaint that this was a problem and (2) I wasn’t given any opportunity to actually speak to the people who complained, apologize, and try to improve the relationship. Instead, I guess they just held this information for months to blindside me? It all just felt extremely off. Of course, at my next review it said I had improved in this area because, you know, I finally had the appropriate feedback I needed to make sure people were happy with the level of communication (even if it wasn’t always from me and sometimes involved my paralegal letting people know I was on trial or whatever it was). So believe me, I get the anxiety of surprise faults being raised in annual reviews! Unhealthy work environments can definitely warp our sense of what’s normal and reasonable.

      Nothing in this post gives me any indication that you are in danger of losing your job or receiving a negative review. I recently transferred out of what is hopefully my last legal role and just had my first review in my new position. My boss was good enough to tell me ahead of time that she doesn’t believe in keeping surprises for annual reviews and that if there was a major problem with my work, she would have addressed it with me as it came up. I expect your boss may be the same way and just hasn’t explicitly verbalized it. I don’t think there is anything wrong with proactively asking your boss about that though, if for no other reason than to quell some of the anxiety (I know some of it won’t go away until your boss has proven you can trust them). Do you have regular one-on-ones? If so, I’d just straight up ask her: “I’ve had experiences in the past where I was given feedback in my annual review that I wish I’d had an opportunity to correct/start working on sooner. I wanted to touch base now and see if there are any areas you’d like me to improve in so I can start working on them now.” Something like that, but in your own voice so it’s more natural and applicable to your situation.

      1. Leandra*

        Another BigLaw alumnus here (staff, not lawyer).
        Legal is my second career and I’ve worked in several BigLaw firms, so I have a basis for comparison.

        These firms can be bureaucratic and absurd beyond belief. But if one hasn’t worked anywhere else, one might not know that. Believe me, they’re not the way the whole world operates.

        I think some bosses save stuff for performance reviews because they don’t like confrontations, either. If they told the person directly, that could open them up for a response the boss doesn’t want to hear.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      “But I can’t help but feel super paranoid something is off. I understand due to my past jobs (hello BigLaw!), I may have gotten a warped view of the way ppl work. One big thing is she doesn’t provide constructive criticism the way past managers did- she does tell me when she wants me to change the way I’m doing something but she doesn’t really stress how critical things.”

      Your ability to trust broke with the last job. Now it is time to work on being able to trust people again.

      The number one thing that jumps at me here is that you want to know how critical it is. I hope you can let go of this need to know how critical it is. I think it comes from a place of “will I get fired for it?”.
      Well if we keep doing something after being told not to, I am sure anyone of us would get fired eventually.
      Just decide to stop doing it that way and do whatever it is her way. It’s pretty simple, she says do x not y, then that is what to do.

      One idea that has worked for me is to say to the boss, “I like this job and for a number of reasons I am happy here. I don’t want to do anything to mess this up. I want to be sure you know that I am most willing to make adjustments to my work where ever necessary. This is because it’s important to me to be known as a good and reliable employee.”
      Then see what she says. One of the bosses I said this to was a terrible boss in the long run but even she responded in a kind manner to this type of statement.

      I think you are not used to bosses talking in a conversational tone while giving instruction or correction. Decide that this is her tone for conveying what you need to know. And you will simply follow her instructions WITHOUT going into a worry loop about being fired. Separate these two things – the message and the emotions from each other. You no long need to go into major worry just because you were asked to do something differently. That cycle happened because you needed to super-protect yourself, now you no longer need to do that.

      Something that has been successful for me is to vow not to make the same mistake twice. Hey, new jobs are tough. Mistakes happen, but they are not fatal. Vowing not to make the same mistake twice helps to redirect my thoughts, emotions and even nervous energy into a proactive activity that will help to preserve my job in the long run. I figure out what type of reminder or stop gap measure I will put into my routine so I twig that vulnerable problem area each time and that mistake does not happen again.

      As the months go on the dots will connect more and more. You will be able to see or figure out- well if I am supposed to do x NOT y, in a parallel situation they will probably want me to do A NOT B.

      I have trained a lot of people. And I supervised for years. I can tell you first hand that bosses do not put energy into an employee who is a hot mess. So you can step back from this whole concept that you will be fired at any moment. You’re not a hot mess. Your boss sees something of value in you and that is why she just converses with you about the job. She feels that it will fall together and you will get this just fine. And I also think that she has some confidence in her own ability to lead people. A person who has some confidence does not need to yell, throw things, snark, etc. That is because they know they have actual tools and abilities as a leader. People who have NO real skills as a leader resort to these sort of things.

  5. What About Insurance?*

    I have a bunch of doctor’s appointments coming up in November/December. I was hoping to use the insurance I get from work to cover them, but I’ve realized I am most likely going to be quitting by the end of the year because the office is a toxic, abusive mess. I have literally never had insurance in my entire life until now, and it’s through my employer. What happens if the insurance doesn’t process my doctor’s bills until after I’ve quit? (I have no idea what this process involves, how long it takes, etc. I know *nothing* about insurance.) Am I going to be on the hook to cover everything myself?

    I’d love to just wait it out at my job until everything clears, but the job is why my health is failing. I haven’t gone to ask the HR benefits person about this because our HR is actually a huge part of the problem driving me out, and I don’t want it known that I’m planning to leave soon in case there’s retaliation.

    1. my cat is prettier than me*

      If you were insured at the time of treatment, insurance will cover it (to whatever degree the plan does).

      1. What About Insurance?*

        That seems to be the general consensus in these comments, with a few little caveats I should check up on. Thank you for this!

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Yup! And in the US, even after you quit, you have the option to extend coverage for several months via COBRA or to immediately purchase coverage in the Health Insurance Marketplace (no need to wait for the next open enrollment period).

    3. Justin*

      I would look to your job’s rules about when your insurance expires after leaving. (It should be written down somewhere.) Some jobs, the day you leave, insurance is gone. Some jobs, it lasts another month.

      But bottom line if you were covered on the day of the appointment, you shouldn’t be on the hook. Not that no one has ever been screwed before.

      1. What About Insurance?*

        Ooh, yeah, I’ll definitely check into that, thanks! I intend to have all my appointments done before quitting, but I don’t want to get unexpectedly snagged.

        1. WellRed*

          If it ends the day you leave ( unlikely) make sure you aren’t owed money back from the monthly premium.

          1. KuklaRed*

            Not necessarily “unlikely”. Most of the companies I have worked for have ended my coverage on the day I left. Some continue it to the end of that month, but many don’t.

    4. I edit everything*

      It’s the date of service that counts for whether your insurance will cover it. So get all those appointments in as soon as possible!

      And I think “pre-existing condition” for your next insurance policy only becomes a thing if there’s a gap in coverage. So your condition existed before any insurance covered it, not just the new insurance. So if you can avoid a gap in coverage, be sure to do that, even if you have to use COBRA or a plan from the ACA exchanges (assuming you’re in the US).

        2. I edit everything*

          Oh, right! We’ve had the same insurance since pre-Obama, so my brain didn’t make that switch.

    5. urguncle*

      If you have coverage when the appointment takes place, it will be processed by the insurance company that covers you. If you have the money, you can also choose to continue coverage through COBRA, although that is typically very expensive.
      That comes with a big BE AWARE: if you’re using that insurance to cover procedures that require pre-approval for a cycle of treatments, they may require you to keep that insurance throughout the cycle or be responsible for payment of those treatments if you lose or change insurance carriers.

    6. Well That's Fantastic*

      If you can, find out when your employer ends health coverage when you leave the job. (I’ve worked places where it lasts until the end of the last month worked, others where it lasts only through your last day, and one where it lasted through the end of your last pay period worked.) As long as the appointment is before the insurance ends, it will still cover the appointment, but if there is a billing issue, you may need to prove your last date of coverage.

      Important caveat: If you have FSA funds, you may need to SPEND the money before your last day, not just incur the charges. Not sure if this has changed over the years (or if I had a shifty employer at the time), but I once lost out on a few hundred dollars in my FSA because I hadn’t received the bills to pay yet by my last day and thought I could still submit them for reimbursement because of the date of service.

      1. Snow Globe*

        I think that was a shifty employer. If you use FSA funds that are not for the right purpose or not in the right time frame, you might need to pay a tax penalty, but the employer should not be taking funds that were withheld from your paycheck! (Unless perhaps that was a employer contribution.)

      2. What About Insurance?*

        Oof. That’s a good warning. I wouldn’t say they’re outright shifty, but the people handling this sort of thing are incompetent enough the results would be the same.

    7. Notanon*

      If your employer is covered by FMLA, you may want to talk to your doctor about needing intermittent FMLA for this slew of appointments, like the poster above, or even full FMLA depending on what issues work is causing. It may get you off enough work so that you can avoid quitting until you sort through the health issues and you will be protected from retaliation because no half-way competent HR person will allow anyone to terminate or take adverse action against someone on FMLA. And you would be able to keep your health insurance if you keep paying the employee portion of the premium.

      1. What About Insurance?*

        I’m definitely going to look into this a bit more. I will be leaving regardless, but I’d like to buy a little more time to take care of some things.

        Thank you!

    8. Syzygy*

      Once you have left your job, you should have the option to continue your medical coverage through COBRA. That will be more expensive because you are paying for the employer’s contribution as well as yours, but at least you will have that if you want it. You can sign up anytime in the 45 days following your last month of coverage. If you haven’t already started another job with health coverage, you can use this time to explore your other options, including plans available through the ACA.

    9. SeenThisHappen*

      I think you’ve gotten the advice you need about timing here, but one piece of process stuff to think about: make sure that all your insurance communication is directed to your personal email, and that you can log in to your insurance independent of your work email/ID! If you leave and no longer have access to your account, that could create problems for you

      1. What About Insurance?*

        I’ll double check that everything is going directly to me, thank you so much for the reminder!

    10. Jessica*

      One word of warning: will your appointments be related to pregnancy? I changed insurance companies when I was literally five weeks pregnant (before I had even seen a doctor) and my new insurance company tried to say that my old insurance company was responsible for all the pregnancy costs because the child was conceived while I was under the old insurance. Seriously.
      Luckily I hadn’t switched employers — my employer had just switched insurance companies — so after trying to solve the issue myself, HR called the new insurance company representative and got them to cover everything.

      1. What About Insurance?*

        Luckily, that will never be an issue for me, as long as I have anything to say about it! (And I am definitely side-eyeing the way the current political climate in the States is going re: the rights of anyone perceived, correctly or otherwise, to have a functional uterus….)

    11. WoodswomanWrites*

      As someone else mentioned, check to find out when your insurance expires related to the day you quit. At places I’ve worked, I’ve maintained my insurance coverage through the last day of that month. For example, having your last work day be December 1 would mean you can make appointments throughout December because you would still be covered. But that’s not true for every employer, so check into that.

      Re COBRA, I had a lapse in my insurance for a month between jobs. COBRA has a provision that you can sign up for it retroactively if you need it. I believe the timeline for signing up is within three months of leaving your old job, but you should double-check that. Because of that provision, I didn’t sign up for it during my one-month period without insurance. If I had some sort of emergency in that window, I could legally sign up for COBRA then to have it covered.

      Detailed COBRA info is at https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ebsa/about-ebsa/our-activities/resource-center/faqs/cobra-continuation-health-coverage-consumer.pdf

      There is a sign-up window for Marketplace plans that I think has a retroactive window also, but you should look that up for details.

  6. I edit everything*

    I had a job interview this morning. It went really well! I think it would be fun–a nice mix of routine and opportunity to manage some projects and use some creativity, and it’s part time. I’ll have to figure out a lot of stuff if I take it, like care for a family member, but I think it would be good for my mental health and my bank balance to have something steady to offset the feast-or-famine nature of my freelancing.

    I’m not asking a question, but I would appreciate some good vibes, both for getting an offer and making the best decisions for myself and my family. Thanks!

    3. I'm not a rapper*

      Hope you get a great offer and best wishes as you navigate the family care! Sounds like a promising opportunity.

      1. Duck Confit*

        Sending you all the best, OP! Another thing to keep in mind, which helped me when I was caring for a family member and looking for work, was knowing that jobs of that type were out there, which made me feel a lot better. So even if this one doesn’t work out (and I have my fingers crossed for you!), you can remind yourself that there are definitely options out there.

    8. TheraputicSarcasm*

      Preemptively assuming you get the job and everything falls into place. Congratulations!

  7. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    I’m still trying to be organized. I notice that I can do maybe 2 hours of organized tasks in the morning ( if there’s no emergency, there’s no meetings, etc) but no matter how many notes or planners I use I’m out of pocket in the afternoon. I’ve tried exercise. I’ve tried meditation. It’s like I’m out of brain energy. How do yall manage?

    1. Panicked*

      ***I am not a doctor and in no way trying to diagnose you.***

      Have you talked with your doctor lately? I know several people who are very similar to you; they are productive when they start but are completely spent afterwards. They have varying diagnoses, but ADHD is the primary. It may be worth a conversation, especially since you’ve already tried mitigating with little result.

      2. cubone*

        Yeah, just an ADHD checking in to say your post is how I felt before medication. That doesn’t mean it’s the explanation for you (or, even if it is, that medication would be a solution)! But afternoons to me were the worst, I was so spent and felt like my brain was wading through fog. I’m not trying to be rose coloured glasses and say now it’s all fine and dandy, but it’s wild how I realize now that was a symptom or presentation of symptoms for me.

        1. Ginger Baker*

          Did you find that the afternoons were terrible *but* you got a second wind maybe around 4/5pm? Uhhhh just asking for no reason…

          1. Generic+Name*

            Raises hand. I call this the end of the day panic, or “oh shit, I actually have to get some stuff done today!”

          3. cubone*

            Hmmm I did but, largely motivated by the pressure of “I need this done for tomorrow” and/or “I need to say I did something of value today”. My psychiatrist talked about “ADHD brains” being more motivated by pressure, novelty, passion and interest vs the non ADHD brain motivators of priority, importance, etc. So.. that does kind of fit for me as another manifestation.

            The biggest thing though is that I don’t CRASH the same away from 1-3pm. Apparently some people on stimulant meds do but for me it’s like the first time in my life I feel relatively “consistent” all day. I used to drink coffee in the morning, sometimes get a second coffee in the afternoon and/or a snack (usually something super sugary) around 3pm as part motivation, part distraction. I still do need an afternoon snack but I don’t crave something sweet the same way and I literally switched to decaf when I started taking meds and have been 100% fine with it. So .. yeah.

            Also for anyone reading this, the best advice I can give re ADHD diagnosis and talking to your doctor is to really focus on the symptoms: what are your experiencing and how is it impacting your day to day functioning and quality of life. You can look up the adult ADHD screener online (CHADD has it I think) but even then, think about your answers to the questions on it, in different situations (school, work, home, relationships) and what are the impacts.

            1. Ginger Baker*

              I uhhhh…sometimes struggle with a major MAJOR urge to legit nod off (including at my desk!) at 2:30/3pm. Like, sometimes I am fine but if I am low energy or super sleepy it is almost always at 3pm, with no relation to how much sleep I’ve had or when the last time I ate was (or what I ate, as far as I can tell). But by 4:30 I am raring to go. I’ve “joked” about it for years. I figured it was a siesta-genes pull or something…

        2. Laika*

          Yep, my organizational skills didn’t improve a wit after I got my ADHD meds but it 1000% improved the amount of mental energy and bandwidth I was wasting beating myself up about being “disorganized”.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I don’t have ADHD and that happens to me sometimes. I schedule a afternoon snack religiously. The act of getting up and walking to get snack, and the looking forward to it makes it easier for my brain to hang in there. Gives my brain permission to turn off for 15 minutes instead of trying and failing repeatedly. Gives my brain a motivation too, I want to finish task A before my tea break and that’s in 20min so let’s go! I’ve also had good luck with work playlists, and background sound generators (coffee shop one is my fav).

    3. Generic+Name*

      If you can plan your day so you do the less mentally taxing tasks in the afternoon that might help. I usually take my dog on a short walk mid afternoon and sometimes I’ll have a caffeinated beverage if I’m really dragging.

      1. My+Useless+2+Cents*

        2nd this. Ideally less mentally taxing tasks, or extra long tasks (that you can just plug in the ear phones and zone in on) can be great for those times the brain just doesn’t seem to kick in to gear or be able to switch between multiple tasks.

        If the problem is getting interrupted in the afternoons and you’re finding it difficult to switch back and forth between tasks and throws off your afternoon, schedule in “unknown task time” into your planners/calendars so you aren’t constantly pushing things out. Great time for organizing, filing, and other routine busy work while you are waiting for those added things you know are coming your way that you just can’t plan for. (I’m a big proponent of not scheduling 100% of your day. The mental bandwidth and benefit’s of being able to fit in those last minute tasks cannot be understated.)

        1. JustaTech*

          Yup, I often schedule my low-brain lab tasks (so up and moving around) for the “uuuhhhhh” time after lunch.
          I also often consider those tasks a “treat” compared to other work like revising documents or sourcing materials, so I get that little serotonin boost too.

    4. RagingADHD*

      There’s a reason they schedule classes to be under an hour in school. Take breaks, walk around, switch it up.

      It is normal to have different levels of concentration or energy at different times of day. With or without ADHD, everyone has a diurnal rhythm. Try as much as you can to match the type of task you’re working on with the type of energy you have. For example, I do better when I compose, have meetings where I’m “on,” or do intense focus in the morning, and edit or do “housekeeping” in the afternoon.

    5. OyHiOh*

      Are you eating lunch? Not energy bar/office snacks/coffee but an actual lunch: Salad, sandwich, leftovers, microwave frozen meal, etc.

      When my brain stalls like that, it’s usually because I haven’t eaten adequate calories

    6. Sharks Are Cool*

      Sometimes I’m the exact opposite–it’s like the part of my brain that is Desperate. To. Distract. Me. is so exhausted after a day of fighting (and compulsively opening browser windows for googling art supplies and other things I care more about than work) that it shuts up enough to let me do a few hours of dedicated work tasks at the very end of the day. Part of that is also the urgency kicking in, and the need to complete the things I said I’d do that day. I know that sometimes my subconscious is working through a thorny problem when I’m distracted, and there are a lot of reassuring letters on this site about how no one is productive 100% of the day, but I still have a lot of shame and self-recrimination about it (compounded with the fury that when I get home I’m too exhausted from fighting my brain all day to actually work on any of the things I spent the day distracted by). I do have an ADHD diagnosis, and I’m on a very low dose of Adderall. It helps, but it also increases my general anxiety, so I’m trying to take it only as needed. This is more of a commiseration comment than a solutions comment! Stuff is hard, brains weren’t built for 9-5, down with capitalism, etc.

      1. Ellen Ripley*

        This is so relatable! 6-8 pm are my most productive hours of the day for the same reason. I have been wondering if I have an ADHD brain, maybe it’s time to finally talk to a doctor. Did you find it hard to find a doctor knowledgeable about ADHD in adults?

        2. Sharks Are Cool*

          For me it was pretty simple—I sent a note to my primary care, was referred to an onsite social worker for the ADHD testing, and then referred back to primary care for prescription. I did feel like I had to work to justify myself to the social worker, as I am high-functioning and very motivated when I’m working on something I care about, but ultimately I had enough symptoms to qualify for a mild ADHD diagnosis. At some point I’d like to move to a differently-structured job, but it’s hard to think of what I’d be qualified for that wouldn’t compromise pay/hours/benefits and wouldn’t aggravate any of my chronic injuries!

          1. Ellen Ripley*

            Yes! I feel weird about discussing it with people because I have “done well in life” and feel like I’m complaining when pointing out how much I’ve struggled/am struggling.

            Bringing up symptoms with my primary care doctor is on my list for my next appointment, thanks for the reality check.

            I hope you find a job that works well for you!

    7. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      It’s also possible you are more of a morning person, and that is the best time for these types of tasks. Could you just lean into it, and keep a to do list each morning of the type of organizational tasks you need to complete that day? Then afternoons are for different types of tasks? I’m someone that is more successful with heavy writing tasks in the afternoon. I like to get into something and have hours of open time to work on it. So I plan those for mid-day into the afternoon.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        My problem is that the items I can achieve from 9 to 11 am are not adequate. So I try to put them in the afternoon ( they don’t get done) In the evening I do other tasks ( yay! Achievement!) But then it’s 7 pm and I’m cranky and blow work off entirely.

    8. Mockingjay*

      Map your energy to the task. Try doing the big/complicated task(s) in the morning. In the afternoon do the little things – it’s easy to take a break in between short tasks if you need to.

      (I’m the opposite: I do my little tasks in the morning, and save the big, long-term tasks for afternoon, which is when I focus best.)

    9. thelettermegan*

      there’s a methodology, I can’t remember the name of it, but you basically stick your tasks into a matrix of urgent/non-urgent vs. important/not important, and then organize your day around how your energies best address those tasks – the urgent and important in those two hours you have, the important but not urgent with what energy you have left, the unimportant, non-urgent getting shifted to rainy days, and the urgent, unimportant getting triaged and/or delegated.

      But you say there’s meetings and emergencies? Are they interrupting your organized tasks, or are they a core part of your job? Some of us like a little chaos in our jobs to keep things interesting, and it’s ok to lean into that a little. Crisis happens, and someone’s got to be there for it, someone’s got to be excited about finding a sense of order in the pandemonium.

      If that’s not the case though, maybe take a look at how meetings and emergencies play into your work, and what can be done to mitigate.

      2. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        The meetings and emergencies are my job! So are the organized tasks! I have so many tasks that weren’t the hot task of the day that were undone that if my boss was even a tiny bit more organized I’d be fired

      3. Ina+Lummick*

        Oh I did something like that in a time management course (not that I needed it, HR were trying to boost uptake of their internal courses) but then most things I did were important + urgent (customer service)

    10. Afternoon slump*

      Can you change work locations in the afternoon? Take a laptop and work from a different office or meeting room? Sometimes that helps to reinvigorate me.
      The other advice I have is just to lean into it. If you already know you lose energy in the afternoon, prioritize your task list to pack in the most critical tasks first thing in the morning. Include scheduling some time to work on long term projects (try not to use the whole 2 hours just working only urgent-important tasks; block some time to work on nonurgent-important tasks as well so that they don’t fall behind). In the afternoon allow yourself to do less structured activities like reading books about your field or about leadership/professional growth, answering emails/phone calls, organizing things, etc.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Nod. I tend to grind through the tasks and not switch when I need to find a way to alternate

    11. Koala dreams*

      If you have a job where you can decide when to do tasks, try to plan tasks to fit your energy levels. Some people work better in the mornings or afternoons or evenings, try to find out what’s your best time for different tasks. Make sure to take short breaks when working. In my experience, a short walk or some stretching is more effective as a break than reading, but actual exercise is too much. Again, try to find a good break for you.

      If nothing works, start looking for a different job. Some jobs require more organizing than others, if that’s your weak spot try to find a job with less organizing.

      Also, sometimes it’s not possible to do a full-time job, for example with certain health issues. If that’s the case for you, you can look into accomodations or part-time sick leave, or try to find a part-time job. (In addition to treatment of course.) Life isn’t fair, some people really struggle a lot more than others with things.

    12. young worker*

      Not a doctor, just someone who experiences slumps:
      I’ve found recently that my wild tiredness / subsequent inability to focus are much improved when I have some sugar. At 11am I almost religiously get slumps of exhaustion, but 3 glucose tablets tends to bring me back to life.

    13. TheraputicSarcasm*

      What helps me is to rotate through several tasks for a set amount of time. If I know I need to complete task 1, task 2, task 3, and task 4, I’ll work on task 1 for 45 minutes, stand up for a few minutes and move around/stop looking at the screen, work on task 2 for 45 minutes, stand up and move, repeat repeat repeat repeat. I heard someone call that “mindful procrastination”: since you’re gonna get distracted anyway, set yourself up to get distracted by something else that needs doing. YMMV.

    14. Not So NewReader*

      I have to eat a good breakfast and a healthy lunch. This includes protein for energy.
      Hydration is super important. I measure out my water and I have set points during the day where I need to have finished off one bottle and started the next.
      Sleep. I like me so much better when I am rested.

      Now here’s the nuts and bolts. I try to do the harder stuff when I first come into work and I am fresh at it. At night, I line up where I will start the next morning.
      I think it’s fine where ever possible to leave the easy stuff for the afternoon when the fatigue starts. It can be a bit of relief to be doing the more mundane stuff toward the end of the day IF possible. This brings me to the subject of pacing.

      We can’t go 90 mph all day long. Sometimes things come up and we really have to run at it hard. But this is not sustainable. On sane days, set a pace that you can maintain for most of the day.

      At home, I liked to plan Wednesday as my easy night at home. I tried to have leftovers ready to eat, I did not do too much extra around the house and I went to bed early. I found it made a difference in my week for me just to have a mini-time out from rat-racing around everything.

  8. StruggleAndStress*

    How do you deal with extremely high-pressure times at work?

    Right now I’m working on a critical task for a critical project that I will not be able to get done by the deadline without working overtime. No one has asked me to work overtime, and there’s usually no expectation of overtime, but if I don’t I definitely won’t meet the deadline. There’s no one else with the skills who can help me and there’s no option to push back the deadline at all.

    I’m basically resigned to working all hours until it’s done, regardless of how appalled my manager would be, but it is making me hate my normally great job. How do people deal with this?

    1. Sunflower*

      Are you eligible for OT pay or not? How much OT is actually required and how long is this going on for? Is there anything your boss can do (pay for meals, transportation, etc for this time?)

      I just went through a period like this of about 3 weeks. Knowing the definitive timeline for when it would end was the most helpful part- it was really brutal but I kept reminding myself things will be better on the other side. I’ve been out on the other side for about 2 weeks now. Even with other stuff going on, I worked only 3 days last week and I’ve worked maybe 4 hours each day this week. Probably will be back to the regular 8 hours this week but the key is just remembering better things are on the other side and slugging through this period of time is worth it if things are really great the rest of the time. Now if better things aren’t on the other side or you don’t feel like you’re being fairly compensated, that’s a different conversation

    2. LDN Layabout*

      Is your manager aware? This is in effect their job. If you’re resigned to doing it, it’s worth asking for something in return e.g. if I worked X hours extra, I can take that timed the following week w/o PTO.

      Knowing I had ‘extra’ time off after intense projects really helped me deal with them in the moment.

      1. StruggleAndStress*

        He’s aware that I am incredibly stressed and don’t think I’ll meet the deadline, but not that I’m working extra hours (to my knowledge). He’d probably tell me not to, but I don’t know how he’d reconcile that with the project deadlines.

        The trouble with asking for time off in lieu is that I already have too much leave left for the year and no chance to take it. I’m planning to take a week at the end of December, and on top of that they’re letting me carry over twice as much as they usually allow in part because I’m needed for this project, which goes live in the first week of December.

        1. I'm not a rapper*

          I mean if I were your manager I’d want to know that you’re working overtime – maybe there’s some flexibility in parts of the project deadlines that would lighten your load? And even if not, I’d want to recognize your contribution and make sure you’re being supported in ways that I could affect.

        2. LDN Layabout*

          Your manager needs to know you’re working overtime. There’s clearly an awareness you’re working too much and have to carry leave over, so this won’t be a shock at this point.

          However, the leave issues you already have might make dealing with it more difficult. Although, sometimes it can be done unofficially. e.g. you do go live, you are ‘there’ for emergencies, but in reality you’re not working and your manager is aware of that but knows you’re a phone call away if needed.

        3. Jay (no, the other one)*

          “Can you help me figure out how to meet the deadline without working overtime?”

          Let your boss know what’s going on and ask for guidance. If he doesn’t want you to work overtime, what’s his solution? Figuring out that solution is his job.

        4. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

          I was in a similar position this summer (stupid huge grant being due in the middle of stupid summer when everyone else is on their stupid holidays). I’m exempt, but I tracked my OT hours out of curiosity, and then my manager had me cancel previously scheduled vacation time to take lieu time instead (3 weeks lieu, earned during just over 6 weeks!). I would also have been allowed to carry over extra holidays earned from that, but I’m planning to spend them this year.

          So it might be worth a conversation about it, or trying to negotiate a bonus, or extra vacation time next year. I’d suggest approaching your manager with the issue, the stakes, and a list of things you would be willing to accept in order to do the extra time to get it done. Good luck!

        5. I should be working*

          If at all possible, take a few days off as soon as the project is done. Not weeks later, but a.s.a.p.. When I have situations like this I’m generally mentally exhausted when they’re done & my brain needs to unwind and get out of emergency mode.

          Now if I could just remember to take my own advice. If I don’t schedule time off I end up calling in sick because I’ll wake up and think “I just can’t”.

          1. Afternoon slump*

            I would double down and even say take a few WEEKS off and actually plan a relaxing or fun getaway. Sounds like there is lots of PTO that needs to be used, and it will give OP something to look forward to during those long days of OT.

    3. urguncle*

      I’m in a similar position currently and I’m really working on setting realistic boundaries for myself. I don’t have issues working into the evening, but I do tend to wake up and immediately microwave my brain in work problems at 5am.
      I think there a few questions I would ask myself here:
      1) Is this deadline the end of a marathon or the end of a sprint before a marathon? Are you going to work to meet a deadline and then immediately get another unrealistic deadline, or will you be able to take a solid 2 week vacation to unwind?
      2) Is this a reasonable amount of time to hold yourself to unreasonable expectations? Are you doing this for 3 weeks, 3 months or a year?
      3) What boundaries will you have and how will you keep them?

    4. Zephy*

      how appalled my manager would be

      Implying you haven’t told her this is the case? Why not?

      You say this is a critical project and critical task – what are the actual stakes, here? If this project doesn’t proceed on the current timeline, what happens? Do people die? Are private citizens put in danger of immediate bodily harm? Are people’s livelihoods on the line (i.e., a specific group of people will 100% definitely not have a job after X date if this doesn’t happen by Y date)?

      I also doubt there are absolutely no pieces of this task that you could bring in someone else to help with. You cannot possibly be the only person on God’s green earth who knows how to do any part of this thing, if it’s this big and this critical.

      Tell your boss that you’re trying to fit ten pounds of work in a five-pound sack of time, and ask her what she wants you to do about it. I can almost guarantee you aren’t paid well enough to work “all hours” until this is done, either, or you wouldn’t be asking. Either the deadline moves or you get help from somewhere, but there’s not a version of this story where “StruggleandStress sacrifices her physical and mental health to get this thing accomplished by X date” is a reasonable expectation or acceptable outcome.

      1. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

        Even if they have to take this whole thing on themselves (which I agree seems unlikely) maybe there’s other work they can offload to someone else.

        I had a critical project that needed to be wrapped up in two weeks, and while others could have helped, it was faster for for me to solely work on that, and have other people take the rest of my work until I was done.

        Bottom line OP, talk to your manager! Figure something out that doesn’t leave you just resigned to doing to all yourself.

      2. StruggleAndStress*

        It’s the data migration for all of our internal systems to a new system that’s in the final stages of being built. It’s critical in the sense of business-critical – no work can be done without these systems. I’d bet good money that I am the only person on god’s green earth who understands the inner workings and data of at least one of those systems. I’m also the only person in the company with experience using the software we’ve got to do the migration.

        I’m sure there are millions of people out there who could do it – the company making the new system have data migration experts after all – but they’d all need either weeks-to-months to get up to speed on the truly awful systems and complicated business processes or me to train them, and UAT (which needs data) starts a week on Monday.

        I haven’t mentioned it specifically because what can he do? There’s no time to get someone external in even if the board approved the extra cost. There’s no one internal who wouldn’t need training. If he approves extra time off there’s no time to take it.

        1. Mailer Daemon Targaryen*

          I haven’t mentioned it specifically because what can he do?

          We don’t know and neither do you. That’s why you need to talk to your manager. Even if the three things you mentioned are true, those may not be the only three options. But you need to loop in your manager regardless because the current situation isn’t tenable.

          1. AcademiaNut*

            And there’s several things things here, beyond the OT. One is that your boss may have access to information/resources/decisions that you don’t, so he can make things better, or advocate for you at higher levels.

            Another is that, as far as everyone higher up is concerned, you’re a bit stressed about a major project, but no more than that. They don’t know that they project they’ve set up has either an unreasonable staffing or timeline. So if they think you’ve completed it in a normal amount of work, they have no reason to believe their project didn’t go smoothly, and no reason to change things the next time they have something major coming up.

            The third is that anytime you’ve got a time critical project that depends entirely on one person, you need to have a plan for what happens if that person becomes unavailable. If you get a bad case of COVID next week, or fall ill because you’re run down and exhausted, what happens? If they haven’t considered it, that’s poor management.

    5. Gracely*

      If you’re salaried, I would just do what it takes to meet the deadline, then cut back some hours the next day/week after (depending on how many hours of overtime we’re talking about). Or if that’s not as feasible for whatever reason, give yourself more/longer breaks. Basically, give that extra time back to yourself somehow so you don’t get burned out.

      If you’re hourly, talk to your manager about OT.

    6. Ms. Norbury*

      This advice may not apply, but if there’s no one at the company with the skills to help, is hiring a contractor a viable option? This is sometimes done in my company when we realize a project is understaffed.

  9. snarkfox*

    Not really a question, I guess, just a vent? I got my first ever bad Google review that mentioned me by name, and I know I shouldn’t care, but it’s really disheartening.

    I work in mental health, and I was supposed to do some testing on a child. The child was very sick and open-mouth coughing constantly. Neither he nor his mother was wearing a mask, so I decided not to do the testing. I just can’t afford to get sick and miss work. That day, we were super short staffed because two other employees were already out. I’m out of sick days, so I’m not about to risk my paycheck.

    The review said that I “darted out of the room” and that if I’m so afraid of getting sick, I “shouldn’t work in healthcare.” Which… that might make sense if I worked for a medical doctor, but when you’re taking a child to a mental health appointment, there’s no reason to bring your kid to the appointment sick. She then stated he wasn’t actually sick, but had bronchitis (which to me means you’re sick, but okay).

    Like I said, this mother was being absurd, so it shouldn’t bother me, but the entitlement frustrates me. I should risk getting sick and being out for multiple days, meaning other kids’ testing is going to get canceled, so this kid can get tested? It’s just frustrating. And now my name is immortalized on Google (except she spelled it wrong so there’s that).

    1. Oogie*

      Because healthcare workers shouldn’t be worried about getting sick…like any other person? Ugh. I’m sorry you have to deal with people like that.

    2. No Tribble At All*

      Ooof, I totally understand why that hurts you. Also, bronchitis can be caused by a viral infection so wtf was she on about? They both could’ve been contagious. A few things might help resolve this for you:
      1) confirm with your boss you’re allowed to refuse clients who appear to be contagious
      2) post signs, add a notice to the appointment confirmation, etc that clinicians reserve the right to reschedule clients who appear to be contagious
      3) remember they spelled your name wrong! So it won’t be immortalized on google, because… if I google “Allyson Green” (To use an example) it won’t find “Alison Green” the correct spelling.

      I know it sucks, but you did the right thing :)

      1. snarkfox*

        Thank you! My boss also totally backed me up, and she complained about him, too. And she actually spelled his name right, lol. That’s a really good idea about putting signs up, though. We didn’t have to worry about it as much for the longest time because msot people were actually being respectful during Covid.

        It’s also funny how much Covid has changed my perspective, because previously, I would have no problem with seeing the kid, even if it ended up with me getting sick. But now I want to be respectful of others’ health, which means I’m going to do the right thing and stay home when sick, which interferes with my paycheck…. (Not that I came to work when seriously ill previously, but I had no problem coming to work with a cold).

    3. Temperance*

      I’m guessing that privacy laws prevent a response, but honestly if I saw that, I would view her as the AH.

    4. Hello sunshine*

      I’m sorry that happened to you. I feel it’s probably good that she was forthcoming about the health issues in the review. If I read that I’d read between the lines.
      Additionally, as someone who works in mental health, the word of mouth is so much more important. Having the confidence of other professionals to include pediatricians and schools will be more influential to your reputation.
      Lastly, does your clinic have a wellness policy. If not I’d push for one.

    5. SnapCracklePop*

      If it makes you feel any better, after reading the review, my only thought would be “Poor OP. Sucks that they have to deal with crappy/entitled parents.”

      A lot of reviews are ridiculous, and reasonable people ignore them.

    6. Maggie*

      No one will read the review and think you’re the AH, they will read it and think she’s rude and entitled. I’m assuming by saying it’s bronchitis she was trying to say her child isn’t contagious but who knows. I don’t know why people bring their constantly coughing children everywhere… I actually left a restaurant this weekend because a family brought 2 obviously sick toddlers who were non stop open mouth coughing and they were seated next to me. It’s bizarre. You did nothing wrong.

      1. Sabine the Very Mean*

        Agreed. And I actually get a kick out of reading comments that are obviously misguided. They have never swayed me unless there are lots of reasonably written bad reviews.

    7. cubone*

      This mostly speaks to the “darted out of the room” part: I used to have a call centre job where I managed a central inbox, which meant I fielded lots of complaints. We also recorded our calls so I would usually connect with the appropriate manager who would review and summarize what had actually happened.

      There were absolutely valid complaints but even in those ones, people 99.999% of the time use VERY dramatic, over the top language. Things like “they yelled at me and slammed the phone down without warning ”, when the recording shows the employee gently letting them know they will be ending the call 3 times and doing so appropriately. I mean it: this was far and above the norm not the exception. In some ways, I understand – they feel hurt, unheard or angry, so their memory of it includes those feelings and explanations of why they felt that way. It takes an absolutely absurd amount of maturity and self reflection to be able to express a complaint fairly and reasonably without embellishing it.

      You have every right to be frustrated about this and you did nothing wrong. It still sucks to see this in writing. But just try to remember that the language and the way it’s framed honestly has very very little to do with you and most to do with their own feelings. IMO, there’s no way you could’ve handled this that would’ve resulted better – it sounds like your actions were always going to be at odds with her expectations.

      1. workswitholdstuff*

        Oh yeah, I got those ones in my call centre days too. One swear, they got a gentle ‘I’m trying to help, please don’t swear, please give me the info I need to help’.
        2nd time ‘I’ve already asked you to not swear at me while I’m trying to help, if you swear again I’ll have to terminate the call’ – that was normally where they’d either shape up or swear at me again and hang up. if they didn’t third time was ‘I have reminded you repeatedly, I’m terminating the call’.

        I got some corkers of complaints occasionaly. One I still remember was the entitled woman who ‘turned away the boiler service engineer because he didn’t look like an engineer – and she knew this stuff cos her husband was an architect’

        After I finished boggling, I checked with our service department – they were ‘nope, no refund – the engineer went out, she turned him away’. She wrote in complaining, our complaints department claimed I’d misadvised – which I was furious about. And then service department absolutely stuck to their guns and reiterated I was right, vindicated me and she didn’t get her refund! (sometimes, they do get their comeupance for being unreasonable!)

    8. Irish Teacher.*

      Honestly, I think anybody who sees that will be very clear the mother is in the wrong. Healthcare workers work with vulnerable people; they need to be extra-careful about things like covid for fear of passing it on to vulnerable patients. Anybody reasonable would think you responded completely appropriately.

    9. SansaStark*

      I can totally see how that would dishearten you! But maybe it would be helpful to remember that reading a review like that may have the opposite effect that she’s intending. If I read a review like that, I’d be even more inclined to schedule an appointment with a provider like that who takes health and safety seriously.

    10. Hiring Mgr*

      Sometimes in cases like these I try to imagine the other person from the most generous perspective possible, even if don’t really believe it. So in this example I might think, “well she was rude and inconsiderate but maybe she came 50 miles, this was the only day she could take off, she’s upset about having to get this test anyway, and so on. None of that probably happened but it might put you at ease…

      1. Double A*

        I also wonder how soon she could have gotten a rescheduled appointment. When I’ve canceled my kids dentists appointments because they are sick, it is literally months before they can get me back in.

        I mean, I cancel because I’m a decent person but that timeline is extremely frustrating. If it were for an appointment that was critical, like mental health testing, I would feel extremely defeated. I wouldn’t leave a bad review but I would be frustrated.

    11. marvin*

      It really sucks when you’re invested in helping other people and still get slammed when you have very reasonable boundaries. If you work in mental health care I imagine that you care about others a lot so receiving this kind of response probably hurts. It’s okay to be bothered by it even if you know that this person was being ridiculous! Especially if you don’t get a lot of recognition in general (I might be projecting there but I always find this kind of thing extra bothersome when I already don’t get the appreciation or support I need).

    12. Afternoon slump*

      If I read a review that a mental health professional declined to see a client who was coughing and visibly sick, I would actually interpret that as a good sign that the provider takes health seriously. In my mind I would likely dismiss that person who wrote the review as an entitled client with incorrect expectations. So even though it sucks to know it’s out there, just know that it likely won’t have much (if any) impact on your ability to get clients.

    13. akovi*

      Did they mention you by name or mention COVID in the review? Those can both be grounds for removal if you are not the owner of the establishment and/or you are following well established medical consensus. You will need to file a complaint to GMB (look up “How to contact google my business support”) and then follow the steps.

    14. It's Giving Karen*

      If it makes you feel any better, I think “LMAO that customer must’ve sucked to work with” when I read reviews like what you describe. My friends, coworkers, and family all react similarly; so I think it’s fair to assume the review will come across as more damaging and negative on her end rather than on yours. She showed her ass on the internet, take joy in the fact that countless strangers get to judge her!

    15. Rara+Avis*

      My healthcare provider (which includes mental health) still requires masking in all their facilities. Which makes sense to me — I want the prob sets to stay healthy!

    16. TheraputicSarcasm*

      She said that in a review for a mental health care provider, not medical? Plague lady just told on herself! Au revoir les Feliciuses!

      Sorry. I know you’re upset and I get it. Know that reasonable people will read that review and laugh just like I did.

    17. nightengale*

      Wow yeah. I am a doctor but work with kids with developmental/behavioral disabilities, not acute care of kids with respiratory symptoms. All health care is not the same, yes if you do primary care or acute care you are going to get exposed to illnesses but that doesn’t apply to all health care, let alone mental health care.

      Most of my families will cancel an appointment if the kid is acutely sick with something. Even pre-pandemic. Especially for a testing/intake type visit because it is almost impossible to get a good sense of a kid’s moods and abilities when they are feeling crummy. Now I sometimes will switch to telehealth for a follow-up if the kid is sick but that really doesn’t work for new patients or testing.

  10. ...And another thing!*

    How do you/CAN you break into editing/proofreading without an established provable history of skills? I don’t even care if the pay is terrible starting out, so long as it’s legit work, and not those ripoff “averages to pennies per hour” places. My day job situation is becoming kind of an emergency one for me for health reasons, and I need to get out ASAP.

    I saw another commenter here recently talking about going freelance in editing and publishing through a valid online publishing-related company. I’ve always wanted to get into doing work like this as well, but I hadn’t tried before because I don’t really have a provable skillset. I’ve done informal proofreading and editing for friends’ personal and business writing; written articles for publications that no longer exist and which I have almost no real proof of; as well as fiction writing, traditionally published and self-published (mostly RPG fantasy adventure fanfic on AO3 these days–let’s be real here, haha). I don’t use any specialized programs for any of this, just like Word and Scrivener and even Notepad. I don’t have any specialized training, just decades of self-taught writing and tweaking practice that probably doesn’t hew tightly to any industry procedures.

    How does someone with no formal training get into this kind of work? With my day job, I don’t have the time or money to pay for schooling and certifications. Is there any way to start getting paid for the skills I actually do have? I also like the idea of working through an outside entity where I don’t have to deal with so much of the “small business management” minutia until I learn about that aspect of working for yourself.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Even if you don’t have formal training (I’m not even sure what that is, beyond being a working writer or editor), if you can demonstrate knowledge and skill, you should be able to break in. Study up on AP Style and the Chicago Manual of Style if you don’t know those. Familiarity with standard style guides is a must. Take online editing tests to get familiar with those — most jobs in editing or proofreading will want you to demonstrate your skills.

      1. ...And another thing!*

        Thank you for this! What sort of things I would need to brush up on was also on my list of “what do I need to know here??” so this is helpful.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Strunk & White’s Elements of Style is also a classic good resource, and Eats, Shoots and Leaves is a fun little read for word nerds. Good luck :)

          1. Redaktorin*

            Elements of Style contains a number of mistakes. It’s interesting for what it is, but as a professional editor, I would absolutely not recommend it as a learning resource to someone with no other training.

            1. ThatGirl*

              I didn’t say it was the bible – but it is something most editors have read at one point or another.

              1. I edit everything*

                Read, yes, but don’t use as a reference or authority. But most of us editors have probably read a lot of the same books.

    2. I edit everything*

      I know you said you don’t have the money for any training, but you might look into some of the short courses (not a degree program or certification program) offered by the Editorial Freelancer’s Association. Many of them are self-directed–you have a year to access the course materials–and others are a set time with more active instruction, but still asynchronous. They’re reasonably priced and very helpful.

      I also find the Editors Association of Earth and Editors Backroom groups on Facebook extremely helpful from a collegial standpoint. Many others have asked the same questions there, so once you’re in the groups, you can search and find oodles of advice.

      Volunteer your services for local non-profit orgs, so you have something to put on your resume. Figure out what kind of editing you want to do and the standard style guide for that kind of editing, and familiarize yourself with it (Chicago Manual of Style, AP style, the various academic styles, etc.). If you have any kind of specialized knowledge (tech, science, education, medical, languages other than English), that could help. Subject area editors tend to be paid more and valued higher than editors like me, run-of-the-mill fiction editors.

      I don’t love the freelance marketplaces (Upwork, Reedsy, etc.) for finding work, and I think an editorial services organization (that funnels work to editors “on staff” or contracted with the company) will want to see more experience. But even with them, you’ll likely have to deal with the business side of things, because you’ll still be a contractor, not an employee.

      It’s a hard road, no joke. Start with the EFA. Try one of two of their beginner classes, and network with everyone. Good luck.

      1. Hydrangea*

        “Volunteer your services for local non-profit orgs, so you have something to put on your resume.”

        How does one actually find these opportunities? Cold call non-profits until you get a bite? Sign up as a volunteer in some other capacity and keep pitching your editing skills until they give in? I guess I have the impression that an organization would have their staff do rather than a volunteer.

        1. I edit everything*

          It depends on the org, of course. Smaller ones would probably be more in need. I did some for a local human services agency (food pantry/thrift shop/job training) org in my small town. Call them and say, “I want to volunteer. These are my skills. Can you use them?”

    3. Redaktorin*

      If I can be completely honest with you, someone with no formal training probably shouldn’t do this work at all. Like all other jobs, it contains real skills that you aren’t born with and don’t usually pick up in the course of pursuing other careers. And the majority of the people you’re competing with for jobs will have provable career histories and/or editing education.

      So I think you may be asking the wrong question. A better question might be “How do I approximate formal training so I am capable of the work?” This question is easier to answer. You should read the sections of the Chicago Manual of Style having to do with grammar, punctuation, usage, etc. You should read the Grammar Girl blog. You should join the Facebook groups mentioned above. These things have helped a couple people I know.

    4. marvin*

      In my experience, it’s difficult. I used to be a book editor and it’s very much a question of knowing the right person. I was able to get work mostly as a result of getting lucky and landing an internship and meeting people who were willing to give me a chance. Everyone else I know who works as a professional editor has a similar story, which is part of the reason the industry is so dysfunctional and insular. I wish I could give a more positive answer but there is a reason why I don’t do this work anymore even though it does have its benefits.

      1. I edit everything*

        It’s true that it’s a difficult area to get into and that not everyone can do it, even if you got A’s in all your English classes. Most of us took kind of sideways paths into editing. So, OP, if your current industry has need for editors, see if you can take that route–look for communications or editorial jobs in that industry, as an employee rather than an independent contractor or freelancer, for example.

        I love love love editing. I can’t imagine not doing it. But it is not an easy life, and you have to bust your butt to get anywhere close to a living wage (which is why I interviewed for a part-time job this morning).

        1. Weegie*

          ‘Sideways paths’ is right: I got into editing while teaching (English) plus literally bumping into someone in a corridor who needed an editor. It was a long, hard, haul into full-time work via a bit of technical writing work, badly paid hourly gigs, joining an editors’ association and working my way through their self-directed learning materials (as mentioned above), and then knowing someone who was about to give up their work for a publisher and happy to turn it over to me. I do know people who did writing and publishing degrees, and they all got jobs. It’s not easy, and it’s not well paid, especially in the early years, and it relies a lot on connections. I do it a) because I got into it by accident and realised b) it’s my vocation, but I advise everyone who approaches me wanting to know how to get into editing not to do it.

        2. Redaktorin*

          I make six figures editing, actually?

          The thing is that in order to do this, I had to give up on the idea of editing fiction. It’s dry medical advertising materials all day. I tend to be very honest with the newbies who ask me that the more boring the materials, the more you get paid.

        3. Redaktorin*

          It’s not hard to make a living wage. I’ve done it since I started. The secret is to work on things that others don’t want to work on—dry, depressing, and highly technical things like slide decks for insurance industry higher-ups walking them through a comparative cost-benefit analysis of two prostate cancer drugs.

          This work isn’t the romantic ideal of the job that a lot of newbies are picturing, but I’ve stared down the barrel of a “fulfilling” arts career that was going to leave me in poverty before, and it turns out that reliably making rent is more fulfilling in the long term.

    5. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

      You might also consider, as an intermediate step, looking for work that includes an editing proofreading component that is not the whole job, and where you’re qualified for the rest of the job. Use that part-editorial-part-whatever-else job to keep your bills paid while obtaining formal experience, developing demonstrable skills and documents you can use as samples of your work, and advancing your training (maybe even paid by the employer, to the degree that it supports your work for them), and make networking connections and get a sense of what roles are available in editing /publishing related to that field. (the work landscape in fiction/literature editing is quite different from academic editing and again different from technical or legal editing, or journalistic editing for a serial publication.)
      Then you’ll be better positioned to transition to fulltime editorial work that suits you.

      Good luck!

    6. NaoNao*

      Fiverr is one way to consider. The key is developing a current portfolio and learning how to deal with clients + market yourself effectively.

    7. Foley*

      This is such an interesting question because I hire freelance editors often. However after a dozen or so years, I only hire with recommendations from people where I can read the work that was edited. Most writers I know have been burned and the good editors are scarce, so even we bogart them.

      But I think your first question is what kind of editing? I hire developmental editors as well as line editors and proofreaders. Some editors do all three, but most only focus on a single area. The skills are wildly different. That’s fiction. Nonfiction is a different kind of skill. You’ve mentioned all, but at this point, I only hire editors for the narrow purpose that suits the writing style/genre and stage (drafting/proofing).

      Once you’ve narrowed in on an area, I’d survey editors without formal training on how they got to where they are. There are courses that allow self-pacing. Or you could solicit small projects and build from there via word of mouth…

      The editors I hire are all veterans of the billion rounds of layoffs from the Big 5.

      1. Shirley Keeldar*

        Important point and one I was coming here to make—editing and proofreading are different skills and you need to be clear which you are good at/offering. And there’s copyediting too, which is an entirely different beast.

        At least in fiction, the distinction goes something like this: The editor says, “Your character’s motivation seems unclear” or “The pacing needs to be tightened up.” The copyeditor says, “Character A has red hair in Chapter 1 and brown hair in Chapter 5–make consistent? Also, you used ‘lie’ where you needed ‘lay.’” And the proofreader says, “Insert a comma here and don’t break that contraction between lines.”

        That how my arm of publishing handles it, anyway…there are distinctions in different areas.

        Don’t mean to be discouraging, but in my experience copyediting/proofreading/editing are all different jobs and some one-the-job training is really helpful for any of them.

  11. Pocket Mouse*

    I’m a union member (government) and our most recent contract ended many months ago. The bargaining process is underway for the next contract, and if history repeats itself, 1) the “start date” of the next contract will be in the past, right after the last contract ended, and 2) a pay increase will be effective as of the contract start date, meaning at some point current union members get a lump sum of back pay in their paycheck.

    My question: do members who have left the job between the start date of the contract and the paycheck in which back pay is issued ever get the back pay? How is this handled, both from a contractual standpoint (if it is typically addressed in the contract) and a payroll standpoint (if separated employees are entitled to the back pay)?

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      Your union rep is probably in a better position to provide a more ample answer, but…are you with PSAC in the Government of Canada, by any chance? (The situation you describe sounds RATHER familiar!) If so, you’ll probably get the money: I left my represented job and moved to a non-represented job during a similar situation, and not only got the outstanding back pay I hadn’t been paid, I also got the three days of extra leave that had been negotiated as part of the Phoenix settlement.

      1. Pocket Mouse*

        I’m not in Canada, for better or worse. Glad to hear you got the back pay and extra leave! What were the steps along the way- did you have to proactively request it, did payroll/HR reach out to make sure your contact or direct deposit information was still correct, etc.?

    2. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

      I have seen this – I was in a union in residency, which meant that we had a very temporary workforce and folks had often graduated by the time new contracts were hashed out. I would make sure that you leave the most up to date information with HR as you can, as well as making sure you keep the contact info for the union rep. It would take roughly a million years for the back pay to make it to the departed residents, but it would happen.

      1. Three Cats in a Trenchcoat*

        Whoops, missed that you asked about whether this should be covered in contact negotiations, and yes, it is. Ours did not necessarily spell out backpay, per se, but the period of time that the contact was covering was strictly negotiated, and then any residents who were employees during that time were eligible for back pay.

  12. Meds*

    Anyone have experience/ tips with injectable medications on trips? I am flying to Los Angeles for a business trip and it seems like California law requires that you bring used needles to municipal sharps disposal sites. Is ducking out to run to one of these sites while it’s open just a thing some people have to do on trips to states with this requirement? This is my first time encountering this so it feels weird but maybe is just NBD.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      You might find that there are more disposal sites than you’re thinking of . I think many municipal buildings (community centers, city halls, libraries) have them, based on what I think I see frequently. I don’t have a medical need for sharps so sorry I don’t have concrete info but I just don’t think it’s going to be a long way to go.
      But no, don’t duck out of a meeting to dispose of a sharp. Is there a safe container you can tuck the used one in until your downtime, when you can find a disposal unit?

    2. Panicked*

      I have no idea what Cali laws are, but can you put the needles in a well-marked safe container (my diabetic friends use an old soda pop bottle with a cap) and then bring it back with you? You could then dispose of them how you typically do.

      Barring that, I would assume you could go to any medical facility and ask them to dump in their sharps container.

      1. JanetM*

        This is wildly different state-to-state and maybe even county-to-county or city-to-city, but I’ve been in a number of public buildings that have sharps disposal containers in the restrooms. Also, many pharmacies have public sharps disposal containers.

    3. Temperance*

      Call your hotel and ask if they have a sharps disposal. I bet the rules are more like “don’t throw them in the trash” than finding a specific place to dump it.

      1. to varying degrees*

        Most hotels I know of have a sharps container for this very purpose. Worse comes to worse if there is a pharmacy near there, they should have one as well.

    4. Pocket Mouse*

      Look into getting a sharps container from a pharmacy, medical provider, or syringe service program. (An informal sharps container would be a thick plastic bottle, like Gatorade.) Hospitals are likely to have sharps disposal receptacles, and airports often have sharps disposal containers in the bathrooms, if you can save them up safely until then, or just bring them home with you. Alternately, there are syringe needle clippers that collect and safely store the cut-off sharp piece, in which case you can re-cap the syringe and dispose of in the trash as with any other debris–this might be the best and safest option overall, even in your home state!

    5. Valancy Snaith*

      Ask your pharmacist when they’re dispensing the medication. Most have sharps disposal containers to carry with you. The law in California will likely refer to people disposing of these containers as they shouldn’t just go in regular bathroom garbage. People do not go to sharps disposal sites after giving a single injection.

    6. Former Mailroom Clerk*

      Most hotels should be able to provide a sharps disposal container for you, and then they’ll make sure they dispose of it properly.

    7. fhqwhgads*

      Bring a sharps container with you. Put the used ones in that. At some point during the trip, you can go to either a sharps drop-off (many are drop boxes, you don’t even have to go in a building, you just drive up and drop your container in, similar to a mailbox) or a CVS or other pharmacy, and you can dispose of your sharps container there with their sharps trash. Go to the counter and ask.
      The point of the law you’re referencing is “do not throw it in the regular tash”, not that you have to go to a difficult to find/rare location.

      1. JustaTech*

        Most airports have sharps disposals now.
        (I once had to explain to a friend that this wasn’t about people using heroin, it was about people using insulin or any of the tons of other injectable medications. “Oh.” She *really* wanted to assume this was a ‘soft on drugs’ thing.)

    9. WellRed*

      I just put mine in something and bring back home to dispose of. I’d never throw sharps in trash and I suspect most of us don’t (I hope!)

    10. Not A Manager*

      I am dubious about some of these responses. My child used to need daily injections when we lived in CA. Now, this was about 7 years ago so maybe things have changed, but I looked for sharps disposal in pharmacies and the like and did not find them. I asked the doctor, who also did not offer sharps disposal, and the doctor LITERALLY told me to put them in a taped box marked “medical sharps” and put them in the trash.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        Been in CA for close to 20 years and have lived less than a mile from (one of a dozen) county drive-up sharps drop box for nearly 10. This may vary by area; California is not a monolith, but I’d expect the circumstances in Los Angeles to be closer what I’ve experienced than what you’re describing. A taped box is a terrible (and not legal) method of disposal. My understanding is this law has been on the books in California since 2008. They need to be in, at minimum, something hard-sided that the sharps can’t puncture, like a coffee can or glass jar. It’s illegal to put them in the regular trash, but if someone’s gonna, it’s significantly less dangerous if it in an unlikely-to-puncture container.

    11. Girasol*

      While waiting for a covid vax I noticed that my local drug store sells a personal “sharps bin” that’s about the size of a medium sized pill bottle. You could carry something like that.

  13. Dil*

    So this just happened.

    I work for a local doctor. Part of my job as medical scribe means I do whatever he asks me to do, which includes ordering him breakfast.

    However, today I’m off for a minor surgery. Surgery is scheduled in the afternoon, but I found that out last night. Point being, they didn’t know what time I’m in surgery.

    My friend from work texts me to ask if I can do the order for breakfast. I usually do it through DoorDash, but I don’t want to give them the account because it’s my personal google password, so I say I’ll just do it for them. He’s given me permission to save his personal card onto my DD account, so it’s not like I’m paying.

    It takes almost a half hour for everyone to decide what they want. I’ve already had the Doctor’s simple order ready to go. Bacon, eggs, toast, coffee. Bam, done.

    Then I start the order and it turns out one of the items is available on the restaurant’s website, but not DD. So I text back asking what to switch it for.

    No response. Fine. I assume that she’s in a room, taking in a patient. My friend is a med tech. I wait. But then it’s a half hour gone by, and I’m sitting here hungry, waiting for my surgery, trying to deal with everyone else’s breakfast orders. I send another text saying I’m just sending the breakfast without that one item.

    About 10 minutes later, I get a text saying she was in a room, as expected, and that I should’ve gotten that person the same thing as she had.

    My response, “Okay, well, I’m doing this as a favor to y’all since I’m out for surgery today. Next time, get his card and call the place up or something.”

    Her response: “We did that last time and we had to go pick it up. His card is saved on a lot of delivery sites so it wouldn’t take it. That’s why.”

    And I haven’t responded yet. I don’t think I want to. I’m upset with her.

    My question is this. Should I go ahead and call our manager to say this can’t happen again, or should I try to talk to my friend personally?

    1. Ginger Pet Lady*

      Honestly I would not have responded to the text at all, or would have declined right off and not answered any follow ups.
      But at this point, I’d probably call the manager and put in hours for the work. Not really a complaint, just a “Since I worked, I want to get paid”
      I’ve found this effective in the past in making a point about being asked to do work on my day off.

      1. Dil*

        Silly me, I assumed that “we need help” would’ve been a small problem, easy to resolve.

        I’m steaming.

        1. Cyndi*

          I’m steamed for you! This is the kind of petty but snowballing annoyance people absolutely shouldn’t be dumping on you this morning. Good luck with your surgery.

        2. Sabine the Very Mean*

          I’d be steaming too, but about half of it would be toward myself. Unfortunately, I’ve let situations like this get me so steamed that I take it out on [coworker] when I should have resolved to look out for myself better next time. Set your boundary and leave it there. Make no apologies. Either don’t respond next time or say, “No, I’m not available. I won’t be able to respond from here on so I hope it gets worked out. Good luck”.

    2. JustMyImagination*

      I’d not do anything until after your surgery and you’ve had a chance to eat. But next time, can you just say no? Instead of making it a thing and a big conversation, just don’t agree to it next time.

    3. Zap R.*

      Your coworkers were being huge dinks. In future, I would suggest a rotating breakfast schedule where a different person is responsible for the order every day.

      That said, YOU WERE OUT FOR SURGERY. Your boss is a grown-ass adult and can pour some Cheerios into a bowl his damn self for one day out of the year.

    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      I think you both need to let it go.

      If a request like this ever comes up in the future, you can say “last time I tried to do this from off site it was a hot mess, so you’ll have to figure something else out.” Or even just “sorry, can’t this time!”

      1. Lana Kane*

        Agree with this. Coworker was inappropriate, but OP really shouldn’t have agreed. They were waiting for surgery and not in a good position to deal with the request. I’d take it as a lesson learned and just decline next time.

        Or maybe create a company Door Dash account.

    5. Posie*

      It’s totally ridiculous that your coworkers would bother you on your surgery day to ask you to order breakfast. If you were my coworker or employee, I would never even consider contacting you on the day of your surgery unless it was to wish you well or alert you to some dire, life-threatening emergency. They were jerks. Next time, totally ignore the initial text.

    6. DisneyChannelThis*

      Could you just work on just fixing the procedure so it doesn’t happen again? An easy solution I can see would be to make the doctor his own door dash profile with the card and a shared login that anyone who does the ordering could use. Then go to manager/friend with solution not blame. It’ll prevent you from dealing with it again, it’ll make you look like a problem solver/innovator, it won’t damage your friendship.

      1. Little beans*

        I agree with this one. Yes it’s annoying and I get why you’re upset, but it sounds like the real problem is that you’re the only person with access to do this and that’s what should be changed.

      3. Leandra*

        Also agreed. This has the added advantage of then nobody can accuse you of blowing them off.

        They still should’ve been adults and handled this themselves. If the boss’s credit card was an issue, then use somebody else’s and write them a reimbursement check later.

    7. rage criers unite*

      Next time (and there probably will be a next time) you’re out for any reason your response should be “i’m so sorry I’m out today and cannot order breakfast”

      or no response at all.

      you’re not working – dont work!

    8. Hydrangea*

      My advise is to respond with something like, “Understood, thanks for clarifying. Nevertheless, this can’t happen again. Please plan accordingly next time.”

    9. Madeleine Matilda*

      I would let this go. First, having set up the delivery using your personal DD account with your boss’ card meant your co-workers couldn’t place the order. Second, your boss didn’t ask you to order breakfast. You say your friend did. You could have said no, but instead you agreed. She likely assumed when you agreed that meant you were able to place the order.

      Perhaps you can put a process in place for future absences so they don’t reach out to you such as setting up an office DD account so others can place the order when you are out of the office.

    10. Rick Tq*

      This saga should have ended with you responding to the first request “I’m off for the day”.

      That should have meant you are not working, not taking notes, and not ordering breakfast for anyone. You should also start changing passwords for any work-related web sites to NOT use your personal passwords, and IT security people will tell you to use unique passwords for every site so if one is compromised the hackers don’t get access to all your other systems.

      Hope your surgery goes well.

    11. TheraputicSarcasm*

      That both sucks and blows at the same time. I’m sorry you had to deal with that. The only thing I’d suggest is not to talk to your boss or your friend yet. Your beef is legit and will require a cool head when you address it.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Tell the doc he has to have his own account because this current plan is no longer working. Then remove his card from your account. You can let him know that this is what you will be doing.
      I understand sharing an account makes things easier- but in the long run it’s more trouble than it’s worth.

  14. OTGet*

    I applied for an internal job (with management responsibilities!) and had a good (I think!) phone screening with HR. What are your tips for internal interviews, should I make it to the next round/meet with the hiring manager? I’ve never been in this situation, and I’m wondering if there are things I’m not considering because I’m an inside. I work in higher ed, if that’s relevant.

    1. bicality*

      Internal interviews, in my experience, mean you can do WAY more sleuthing before. Especially in higher ed, where you can generally figure out who else works in the department, with the department, etc. I’ve moved twice in my tenure at a university and both times I took the opportunity to call up colleagues who knew the hiring manager and department and ask really candid and probing questions. When it came to the actual interview, I was super comfortable because I knew so much about them and could ask very detailed questions on what I was still curious about. I could also reference all of the systems and processes used in the university because they (ostensibly) have the same experience. This made it very tangible for both of us to imagine me in the position, hitting the ground running, because I knew so much about the situation already.

      1. bicality*

        LOL, I see everyone else has the exact opposite experience as me. Listen to them; I obviously take an unusual approach (which works for me and the kind of networker I am)! To clarify, I don’t act like I know everything in the interview, I still ask the basic questions to get their take on things, I just have really good follow up questions.

    2. Ringo’s mom*

      I’m in higher ed, too, and have years of experience on hiring committees. My biggest tip for internal candidates: Treat the interview as if you are interviewing with an outside company and people you don’t know. Don’t assume you know everything about the position—research it. The biggest mistake I’ve seen internal candidates make is in assuming people on the interview committee know everything about their skill sets. The second biggest mistake: being too casual and familiar with the hiring team. Bring your A game. Good luck!

    3. cubone*

      I’ve interviewed a few candidates internally before and the biggest mistake I noticed is they make assumptions about what we do or don’t know about them. Things like “I led Project X which as you know was very successful” – I know it feels dumb explaining project X and it’s results to people who worked on it, but the best interviews are always people who are clear and specific about their accomplishments, and tie them to the job they’re applying for (internal and external).

      Obviously use your best judgement and don’t infantilize them by over explaining very basic knowledge, but give them the same approach you would external ones and explain your successes in DETAIL. Tie things back to the new job. Do your research on the new team/departments goals. Basically in short: don’t cut corners thinking things are obvious or well known just because you already work there.

    4. Jack Straw from Wichita*

      My one piece of advice for internal interviews is to treat them like external ones. Early in my career, I assumed I had a promotion in the bag (and TBH I did until I screwed it up majorly in the interview), so I didn’t prepare at all for the interview and said things like “Well, you know how that project went.” The problem was 1. I was unprepared and seemed as if I hadn’t given the interview the time/attention it deserved, but the biggest one was 2. there were two people who didn’t know me and my work in the interview. I had been groomed for the job for a year+ but it went to someone else who was more prepared and blew the two outside-our-department people away.

    5. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

      I just went through this (also higher ed). Definitely be as prepared as you would be for any external interview, as others have said! I also recommend asking around to find out more about the team, the manager, the work environment. See if you can figure out adjacent teams who can provide insight, if you’re uncomfortable asking directly into the unit.

      My tip, as an anxious and bad interviewee, is know that they’ve also likely done their homework on you. My work and reputation is great, and I realized over the process that there were a number of conversations behind the scenes that supported my candidacy – so my bad interviewing (I am not catastrophizing, I have receipts from trusted colleagues and former managers that interviewing me is the worst part of working with me, and not due to lack of preparation) was just a bump on the path. Even during the interview when words were falling out of my mouth uncontrolled, I could comfort myself with the knowledge that I came in as a strong candidate. And got the job!

      1. OTGet*

        I worked closely on a number of projects with the person who was previously in this role. (She left for an internal opportunity as well.) Too direct to reach out to her?

  15. Ginger Pet Lady*

    What’s the weirdest, most misguided thing your company has done in the name of boosting productivity?
    Talked to a former coworker this week, and the company we used to work at removed all art from the walls and painted over all the murals and colored walls. Just white EVERYWHERE. Made all employees remove any decor as well. To “put the focus where it belongs. On your work!”
    I guess they figured people were spending too much time admiring the photo of the Grand Canyon over by accounting? Or maybe the Eiffel Tower one from IKEA that was by the conference rooms was just tooooo distracting? And the gray and white diagonal stripes on the wall opposite the elevator were a REAL time suck?
    Apparently there was a mass exodus not long after.
    Seen any similar weirdness in the name of “productivity”?

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Yes! Humans like aesthetically pleasing surroundings! We need beauty in our lives.

        Also, this is the opposite of what encourages productivity.

        1. JustaTech*

          When our building was renovated the person in charge of the renovation made sure that her floor had nice, work-related décor (pictures of our patients, art of our product, that kind of stuff).
          My floor? White walls. And Every Single Time I have asked to put our technical posters (showing off our accomplishments!) back up it’s either been a flat “no” or a mealy-mouthed “oh we’ll have to check”.

          Best part? The person in charge of the renovation left years ago.

    2. Cyndi*

      My company is moving our entire office from a centrally-located building where we have cubicles to a brand new facility way out on the edge of the city, in a direction that will make almost everyone’s commutes much worse. It will be open plan, with tighter security where employees leave most personal possessions in lockers instead of keeping them at their desks, and there isn’t even anywhere to eat in the area. They’re insisting this is for “efficiency” but no one on my team intends to still be working here by the time of the move, so good luck being more efficient while getting an entire fresh team up to speed, folks!

      1. Hydrangea*

        We moved from mostly private offices but some clusters of cubicles to an open plan office. I now WFH most days.

      2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

        I had the same thought! “An office that LOOKS efficient, IS efficient.”

    4. Hotdog not dog*

      My office took away individual printers. Everyone has to use one “centrally located” printer. It was supposed to be for more efficiency, but now it takes me at least twice as long to go down the hall and wait my turn while someone else is scrambling up my pages. On a good day, I get back to my desk with all of my correct pages and none missing or nobody else’s mixed in.
      But now we have more empty surface area at our workstations! Less clutter! Quieter!

      1. Cyndi*

        Oh God I was once in an office with a few “centrally located” printers and the most convenient one was two feet behind my desk. It was so disruptive having people coming and going right behind me all the time that I had to ask to change desks. Efficiency!

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          I had a printer behind my desk once. Super annoying & I had to listen to all the “standing around waiting for printouts” conversations.

          1. Cyndi*

            Yeah, it actually outweighed the convenience of being able to grab my own printouts without getting out of my chair.

      2. Gracely*

        My workplace did this. It’s super annoying. Especially when the one central printer/copier/etc. per floor is out of toner or jammed or just out of service.

      3. Snow Globe*

        Our company did that years ago, so I learned how to save notes in pdf documents, and otherwise go full digital. I haven’t printed anything in years. So I guess it worked, at least in my case.

      4. Jaid*

        We use centrally located printer/copiers, but our work is saved to the cloud(?) and if we want to print something, we need to use our keyed badges and a password to access our print job.

        Photocopies don’t need that, unless you’re saving a copy to your e-mail to send elsewhere in lieu of faxing.

        Anyway, with the badge and password, no work is being mixed up. Maybe your business should look into that!

        BTW, the copier is right behind my desk, but most people don’t hang out and chit-chat there, so it doesn’t bug me.

        1. allathian*

          Yes, same. I got a new computer in May this year. I haven’t installed the printer driver/secure printing queue yet. Thankfully no need for passwords in our case, just flash your smart card at the rfid reader. But I’d have to go to the office if I needed to print anything, we aren’t allowed to print stuff at home for security reasons.

        2. JustaTech*

          Teh big central printer used to live right by my desk (until they took away the other one for the floor so we moved ours to a more physically central location) and the only time the printer was annoying was the week it developed a squeak.

          After two days the other person who sat near it just unplugged it and told folks to badge into another printer because we were going nuts.

      5. Esmeralda*

        It’s not for efficiency, they’re just saying that.

        They don’t want to spend money and time ordering supplies for a dozen personal printers, plus maintenance, replacement…

        Of course, when the one central printer goes down, everyone is screwed.

        1. AsPerElaine*

          I mean, it is more efficient — they’ll spend less on supplies, and less on printer service, and can probably get better printers overall.

          It’s just not necessarily efficient in terms of employee time and effort (aside from the people who were responsible for all those printers).

    5. Sad Desk Salad*

      I’d like to hear from professionals how they help others that want to follow their path. Context: I’ve been a lawyer for about 10 years, I like it, my job is great, but being in law school and taking the bar were probably the worst parts of my professional life. I know a man from a shared sport who’s asked me for advice on finishing his law degree, and I really don’t know the best way to help him. His situation is very different from mine; he’s essentially unwelcome in his home country due to his political position on the Ukraine invasion. So his previous legal experience is very different from mine, and I’m not sure how to help him. He’s sent his resume, so I presume that’s where I start, but resume review is not really my strong suit. (My spouse reviews resumes for a living so I’ll probably tap her for advice as well.)

      Normally, for Americans, I would strongly discourage people from attending law school unless they had a strong, compelling reason or a mission in mind–it’s way too expensive and difficult to not be fully committed. But he is very genuine, has a ton of legal experience in his home country, and has a focused area of interest, and I think he would be a great candidate for law schools. I want to help him, but I’m not exactly sure how. Asking him directly along with his resume review is my next step, but if anyone else has any other ideas, I would love to hear them.

    6. calvin blick*

      A friend’s job insisted that people come in on Saturdays so the executives and investors could drive by the parking lot and see how many cars were there. They were also very insistent on people not “wasting a workday” by traveling on weekends if possible.

      I guess they got some productivity out of that but morale and retention were not good as you would expect.

    7. RagingADHD*

      The agency I primarily work through added two extra layers of project management for improved efficiency and organization.

      So now, questions from the client about process that used to get answered the same day whenever the PM checked messages, take a week. And sometimes don’t get answered at all until they’ve been forgotten, re-discovered, kicked over to a different layer of management, forgotten again, and re-surface as emergencies that delay the product release and require scrambling to bring in a team of specialists.

    8. Meep*

      Still drives me nuts years later, but my former manager insisted during the pandemic because we were working remotely we would have check-in meetings every morning at 8:30 AM, 1:00 PM, and 5:00 PM in the evenings with everyone to make sure we were “on task”. Never mind this absolute loon of a person was rarely in before the pandemic. Never mind this absolute loon of a person insisted that we all prepare for it at least an hour before. Never mind this absolute loon of a person would cancel at least two of those meetings during the day last minute. This went on for two years before people just went about their day.

      1. Cookies For Breakfast*

        My partner’s workplace has a version of this.an “informal” check-in that the entire company is supposed to attend. It’s one meeting a day rather than several, but in the timezone we’re in, it’s right at the end of the working day, so he can’t even use that time to wind down tasks and prepare to log off.

        Probably because my partner’s job already involves being on video calls most of the day, this rubs me the wrong way, like an extra demand on people’s time. The boss is the same person who had his direct reports dial into a weekly team meeting at 9am, when their workday usually starts half an hour later. I also think they’ll have a hard time keeping it up given how fast the company is growing, surely expecting everyone to attend is becoming a stretch (and I think I’m right, they’ve already reduced them from every day to twice a week).

    9. Dark Macadamia*

      Maybe not quite productivity, but I worked at a school that put a HUGE emphasis on standardized testing. Like, the state already required a full week of these mind-numbing tests, and our school would do a full SECOND week of PRACTICE testing where we basically replicated test conditions as closely as possible and kids took FULL-LENGTH practice tests instead of, you know, occasionally giving them a couple questions as part of their regular learning to practice test-taking strategies.

      One year they decided the students weren’t prepared enough, so we needed to replace our last unit before state testing with, you got it, MORE practice tests. Literally just … skip several weeks of teaching new content (which would be ON THE TEST) so they can do practice questions. Every day. I cried in the meeting and then proceeded to teach as usual while ignoring my giant binder of sample tests (I think I used a handful of the questions in tutoring). My students did fine on the state test.

      1. Alex (they/them)*

        That much testing must be awful for the students! I wouldn’t be surprised if made their scores worse :/

    11. Cookies for Breakfast*

      Ah, yes, my former workplace’s move to an office with more fancy interior design than sense.

      Hot-desking office with fewer desks than employees, which in theory could have worked (we all had flexibility to WFH), but in practice was a mess, because only some workstations had monitors to plug into. If you wanted to work on a large monitor, which was the only thing I couldn’t do at home, you had to get there very early. At one point, they started replacing the monitors to force people to “upgrade” their laptops…to newer versions that didn’t last as long or work as well, but were compatible only with the new screens.

      Also, there was no room for people to store their belongings, aside from one coat rack and a row of open square shelves. Again, fewer than actual employees who might have wanted to keep their laptops at the office. Honourable mention for the time someone took my laptop out of its sleeve while I was on holiday, stole the sleeve, and stored the laptop on a shelf too high for me to reach. And if I think back to the mass of bags people left on the floor because there was no room to store them anywhere in the office (we were told we could not have our personal stuff at any desk), “health and safety hazard” are the first words I can come up with. Yay productivity, yay safe working conditions.

    12. New Mom*

      Deciding to mandate that everyone come back to the office, when we can all work remotely and the commute would add up to two hours of driving to our day for “collaboration”.

    13. A Girl Named Fred*

      My company is on a big kick right now with a raffle happening this quarter. If you do certain things you get a ticket and can put those tickets into a drawing to win Super Awesome Prizes (that weren’t chosen when the quarter began and haven’t been announced yet.) It was initially announced as a fun optional way to boost some numbers, and has devolved into supervisors constantly checking in to make sure you’re sending them your ticket requests and randomly doubling the amount of tickets you get for X, Y, and Z and announcing it with important pings on Teams and all the fanfare and urgency of a 90% off sale.

      I want money, not a raffle ticket, but I appear to be in the minority in my org (and am trying desperately to get out.) But if I get another Important ping about “TICKET FRENZY!!!!!” today, I might just lose my mind.

    14. DisneyChannelThis*

      Hot desking. Hands down. I have no idea why anyone thinks losing assigned seating is going to improve anything

    15. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Our business office only cuts checks/cheques for accounts payable or depositing in the post office account, etc., once a week, on Wednesday. This way they don’t need to keep cutting checks constantly and can focus on other tasks…except, if I need to have those funds in the post office for instance, to do a bulk mailing on our org permit…and I request the funds on Thursday morning…I have to wait until the following Wednesday for the Day Of Checks. And GAWD FORBID, they forget or lost the requisition, because now I gotta wait another week.

    16. Sabine the Very Mean*

      Decided it was necessary to have an entire team read documents, send emails, make comments to a working file, and basically all other things as one entire unit. So for hours at a time, all 10 of us would be looking at a screen while one person reads the content outloud. Boss did this in response to improper communications going out by team members.

    17. Leandra*

      Several of the largest firms in my industry either already have, or are going back to the era of the office secretarial pool. They think it’ll reduce secretarial downtime by spreading the workload out.

      Now as then, the biggest problem with that is when bosses aren’t trying to steer their work to secretaries they trust, secretaries will try to pick and choose what tasks they want to do.

    18. SofiaDeo*

      The strangest, most misguided thing the State hospital I worked at, was when the Assistant Directors and Director decided to redesign the department space, supposedly to “improve workflow.” Instead of asking any *actual staff working in that space* for input during this huge project(we are talking, moving walls/rooms, adding/changing counters and desks and telephones) they had the 3 interns who had been there only a few weeks do it. The entire thing.

  16. darlingpants*

    TLDR: I don’t like being a manager and I need tips on how to make it bearable for me, a good experience for my employee, and also for strategies to try not to make my management responsibilities larger without overworking my “group” (just me and this one employee).

    I mostly enjoyed having an intern this summer but I think that’s because it was more mentorship than managing, and it was time limited. I don’t like having an employee. I don’t like having to figure out what she’s working on on top of figuring out what I’m working on. I hate that that’s going to be what happens forever and ever until one of us quits this job. I dislike talking to her about compensation and I really hate this inner conflict I have about wanting her to take vacation and get raises and also thinking she makes a fair wage for her pay band and I know lots of people in our lab make way less (yes I’m taking this way too personally but I don’t know how to stop).

    I wish she was more independent but also she’s been working here for like 3 months. I feel overwhelmed but like it’s my responsibility to balance work that needs to get done with work that’s fun and interesting and that if I get the balance wrong she’ll quit. I want to hand her a full project and walk away but that’s not fair: she needs training on a lot of this stuff.

    Some of it’s probably a learning curve. Some of it is my personality. I like being a mentor, but not a manager. But also I need at least one other person in my group for work timing issues. Writing this out showed a big problem is how personally responsible I feel for her well-being but I don’t know how to stop that without abdicating the actual responsibility I do have as her manager.

    Any advice is extremely welcome.

    1. Qwerty*

      Are you a new manager? Can your office send you to some intro management trainings? It can be tough when starting to determine where the line is on what’s your responsibility to care about. It sounds like you are overwhelmed, which is totally normal (Making of a Manager is a good book that talks about feeling like you’re drowning when you first start managing)

      Some things you can punt on for now. She’s been there 3months, you’ve got time before stuff like raises comes up. Accept that this employee WILL quit at some point – you can’t be making decisions worried about the possibility of her leaving.

      It might help to separate this into two buckets. You are not just managing this employee, but also onboarding/training her. Adjusting to management is easier when you start with established smooth running folks. Building a team is harder. As she gets more trained, you’ll be able to focus on just the management side.

      Obviously you can also explore the possibility of stepping down as a manager, but it’s probably worth trying it out for a while longer and seeing how it feels once you get the hang of it. I totally get prefering mentorship over management – I left leadership to go back to being a senior IC because I have the same preference.

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      So a few thoughts:
      1) Tell her to tell you what she’s working on. Establish a regular update schedule where she sends you an email (or whatever written format you prefer) with everything she’s working on. Make it really clear that she needs to put everything on there, and if she doesn’t put it on the update, it doesn’t count towards her performance review.
      2) Set up a regular 1:1 (after you’ve had time to review her regular written update) so you can discuss everything she’s included in the update, clarify concerns, and set up next steps.
      3) shut the compensation talk down. She’s only been there 3 months, you think her compensation’s fine, she’s not as independent as you need her to be; ergo, she’s not in a position to negotiate compensation yet. Give her a date and specific goals you need to see her meet before you’ll be willing to discuss compensation with her again, like: I need to see at least X progress from you in 6 months. If you want to be considered for higher roles and higher compensation, we really need to see Y and Z before we can even discuss adjusting your compensation. Be really clear. And then if she brings it up again, refer back to your convo about seeing Y and Z.
      4) Training; you like being a mentor. Lean into that when you’re training her – what’s fun about being a mentor? How do train your mentees? See if you can get that same energy when you’re training your employee. Eventually she will be able to handle a full project by herself.
      5) if she quits, it’s not your fault. Your job is to be pleasant, clear, and fair with her. She gets to decide if this job isn’t a good fit; you don’t have to bend over backwards to make it fit her.

    3. cubone*

      Aw, your post struck my heart. I felt a lot like this with my first FT employee. I realized I do actually like being a manager, but it was a learning curve and she was also struggling in her job. A double whammy.

      Some random thoughts, echoing some of what’s been said by others but hopefully expanding:
      1) what she’s working on: when you frame it as “figuring out what she’s working on vs what I’m working on” it’s always going to run into trouble. Being a manager means part of your job (as in, a literal job task) is to be giving guidance of how things fit into larger goals – yes, you will each have your own tasks (and possibly different projects) but you have to shift to thinking about what those all ladder up to. You are both working on the SAME work, you just have a different breakdown of tasks or responsibilities. If you’re thinking “but we have different projects/tasks” then take a mental step further out from just those specific projects. Keep going until you can see larger overarching goals (I recognize this is always going to be different in different industries). Then when you are assigning work, it’s thinking about what tasks are going into those larger goals, what are most appropriate for her vs you (keeping in mind some things will live 100% with each of you)

      2) compensation: koala said this well: shut it down. Next time it comes up (or bring it up yourself): “I’ve heard you talk a few times about compensation. I want to be up front that right now raises aren’t on the table for [a tenure of X/until performance reviews/one year in/whatever]. At that time, we can revisit it based on your work. Does that make sense?” If no – then you say I’m sorry to hear that, but unfortunately that’s the situation. If it keeps coming up, you revisit the classic AAM advice of “we’ve discussed this and it keeps coming up. I need to know you understand this isn’t going to change and not continue to mention it. Can you agree to that?” After my employee left, I heard from several people that her constant complaining about pay (which was higher than them) was extremely demoralizing and upsetting. It’s not just you taking it personally.

      3) 1:1s: in addition to having them (HAVE THEM), ask what she needs out of them. What makes a 1-1 useful for her? Does she find highly structured (agenda, minutes) helps or more conversational about issues?

      4) your job as a manager isn’t to prevent people from quitting. It’s to help people be successful so the work gets completed. That’s it. If successful to her means she leaves, that’s fine (if you have a dozen employees and all of them quit, that’s a different story and reflection obviously).

      5) others may have different book or learning recs but Radical Candor by Kim Scott helped me a lot as a new manager. Not everyone loves it and it’s an imperfect book but specifically it made me realize that a manager who is rude and aggressive is not actually significantly worse than a manager who is unclear, passive, insincere, or too worried about being disliked. Those managers suck. Don’t mistake kindness or gentleness or management. You can be kind, compassionate, and gentle, but you also need to be clear and specific. Don’t shy away from speaking to her because you don’t like the job; it’ll make infinitely worse

    4. Toodle*

      I solved it by quitting being a manager.

      Not having to care about what other people were doing made a tremendous difference in my mental health and professional career.

  17. Raspberry*

    I got a new job that moved me across the country that I just started last month. Things have been rocky. I was quickly able to dive into most of the work, and I even cleared a 5 month backlog of reports already. The VPs I support are thrilled with me, but my team is where I am struggling.

    First the guy whose roll I took over, “Aaron”, instantly gave me bad vibes, and while he was training me on a report he asked me to stop taking notes and just watch because he had a guide. However as the due date for the next report approached I asked several times for the guide and never got a response. I asked around my team and got a snarky response from the Sr lead that “on this team we respectfully take notes when someone kindly takes time from their day to train you”. I responded “Oh I take notes, but Aaron specifically asked me to stop taking notes on this one since he had a guide and my note taking was slowing down his training session”. She replied sarcastically with “Sure”. The whole team could hear this exchange because our desks are in a pod but the training was in a conference room.

    Well I started working on the report, figuring correctly at that point that there wasn’t a guide. I managed to get the report out on time and accurately. A couple days later, Aaron sent an email copying my whole team and my manager as well as the VP the report goes to with a version of the report he put together, and that he had heard I wasn’t able to complete this report but that he would find time in his busy schedule to train me again. The VP who got the report replied that he’s not sure who told Aaron that Raspberry hadn’t done the report, but that she clearly understands it well since she actually remembered to update the constants on tab 3 unlike a busy someone ;).

    After that a few of the younger employees on the team let me know in confidence that they see I do good work and not to let Aaron get me down,  but the older employees are clearly team Aaron. Not sure how they don’t see Aaron’s fumbled attempt at a set up there but whatever. I had another run in with Aaron, but someone else made their presence in the room known so he cut it short. It was inappropriate but nothing that Aaron couldn’t spin as overeagerly trying to give the new person helpful advice.

    This Monday I was in a conference room waiting to meet with my boss for my 30 day check in when one of the Sr staff came in and closed the door. “None of us want you here you know. We voted to hire the guy who actually got a CPA.” (I’ve only got degrees in mathematics and statistics). A bit exasperated, I kept an even tone “Well I have no use for that information but I wish you a pleasant rest of the day” and opened my hand towards the door. She stormed out and my boss came in about 5 minutes later.

    My boss said I was doing great work and he was impressed with how quickly I built relationships with the VPs and directors, but he wants me to work on improving my relationship with the team. When I mentioned the note taking thing, he cut me off and said that he doesn’t know what the deal with that drama was, but I should know that Aaron, himself, and the CFO attend the same church and golf together so he knows Aaron is a godly man with integrity. Because of his response, I didn’t tell him about the “we don’t want you” conversation.

    I guess I’ll mention here that I am an out non-prostelyzing atheist.

    I’m not sure what to do. I can’t afford to lose a job that moved me here, in fact if I get fired or quit before 2 years I’ll be out the FULL $5,000 in relocation assistance that I will have to pay back in a 6 month period.  I feel like there is no chance to improve my relationship with the older coworkers who apparently never wanted to hire me in the first place and are clearly up Aaron’s ass. My game plan is to keep my head down, avoid Aaron, and continue to ingratiate myself to the VPs and Directors and build up better relationships with the younger coworkers. HR here sucks so I don’t trust them to be any help.

    Does anyone else have any advice? I’ve never had a group turn into a shit show like this!

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      This sounds awful. I would look around for a new position (it’s a candidate’s market) and if/when you get an offer, see if they’ll cover the $5k as a signing bonus. Covering this kind of thing is pretty common in my field (biotech).

      1. Raspberry*

        It’s definitely not a candidates market in my field. I have been applying since May in jobs that 3 years ago I got almost 60% interview rates on and now I literally only got one interview (this group) after about 45 targeted applications to roles around the same seniority just a smidge higher. It feels like competition in my field is suddenly through the roof and even some jobs I held prior at my current company are requiring masters when they did not before.

    2. Rick Tq*

      This all around stinks, but I think you have the right plan. Build enough high-level air cover to protect you from TeamAaron…

      My hackles went up as soon as your boss said “Godly man with integrity”, it usually means the reverse as you have seen.

      Watch you back, Document/Document/Document!, and good luck.

      1. but I'm not a rapper*

        To add on to Rick’s last point – try to document all the negative interactions (honestly, this sounds like bullying!) that you’re having, including the nonexistent guide and the “nobody wants you here” incident. Keep track of dates, times, and the remarks that you remember, and stay matter-of-fact in your notes. Even with a terrible HR, it’s possible that you can accumulate enough incidents to make a compelling case.

        Also – it sounds like you’re making work friends with some of the younger employees. That’s great! You could try asking them for recommendations on working with the more hostile folks, or if they witness any of the hostility you could ask them to back you up with HR.

    3. Zephy*

      Oh god, get the hell out of this job ASAP. 800 bucks a month ($5k over 6 months) sounds like a reasonable price to pay for getting away from this dysfunctional-ass office. Your boss basically told you Aaron’s not going anywhere, this situation will not change for you until you leave.

      1. Raspberry*

        Thankfully Aaron is not in my department so I may not have to interact with him much now that I’m trained on the big stuff.

    4. calvin blick*

      I signed a relocation agreement as well, except mine is for 3 years and a whole lot more money. Never doing that again (although thankfully my team all seem to be pleasant people).

      Does your agreement have a sliding scale? Mine decreases by a third every year, so maybe if you can stick out for another 11 months the payback amount will be a little less.

    5. Parenthesis Dude*

      Document, document, document. When you’re ready to leave, talk to a lawyer. This sounds like a potential religious discrimination case.

    6. Gracely*

      Wow. I’m a non-proselytizing Christian, and that “godly man with integrity” line is total bullshit. I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone described that way that wasn’t a complete tool. Plenty of glassbowls attend church–it’s a great place for people who want to manipulate others, unfortunately. Ugh.

      I don’t think it means you can’t tell your boss about the “we don’t want you” conversation–frankly that’s much more egregious, easier to explain, and harder to dismiss than the note-taking stuff–but you might be better served by sharing that with someone above your boss, and holding off on it at the time was probably the right thing to do.

      I think you have a good plan in building better relationships with the VPs/Directors and your younger coworkers, but given the hiring market right now, I’d also be looking elsewhere (and plan to ask them to cover that relocation assistance). Until then, keep an eye out for other sabotage attempts from Aaron and the others (because I doubt it’s just Aaron who’ll try stuff), and maybe they’ll eventually see that you’re not going anywhere just because they don’t like you.

      But I’m really sorry you’re dealing with this at all.

      1. Raspberry*

        My fear with speaking with my boss is that, since he utterly dismissed me on the guide thing which at least has some email evidence, why on earth would he believe me over someone who has been here 30 years when it’s a simply a she said she said situation?

        I’m afraid he’ll take that to mean I’m drama and just drop me at this point. I don’t know his boss so I won’t go to them until I know them more and know if I can trust their judgement.

        1. Two Dog Night*

          I think you’re right–your best bet is to do good work and build relationships with everyone you can. Hopefully your boss will start to trust you more over time, but it’s still really early, and the fact that he golfs with Aaron isn’t a good sign. I’m so sorry Aaron is still around. You’re in a tough spot.

          And I agree with other commenters–a new job that includes a $5K signing bonus might be the way to go.

        2. Gracely*

          I definitely get that fear, and I don’t think it’s misplaced. I would wait until you’ve got a better footing and clear track record.

          Just remind yourself (and anyone else who tries to say something similar) that they didn’t hire the CPA, they hired you, so there must have been a good reason for that.

          Hopefully it will get better once they get their heads out of their asses and see you can do the work. Until then, CYA and document, document, document (and save that documentation somewhere you can get at it if you lose access to your work computer/files) so that if they do try and get rid of you, you have some recourse. A lawyer’s letter backed up with documentation can go a long way towards getting a company to decide it’s not worth pursuing that relocation fee.

        3. I edit everything*

          If the older team members have really been there that long, maybe they’ll retire soon, and there can be a changing of the guard. If there are “older” who’ve been there 30 years, and “younger,” who are separated enough in whatever way not to be part of that pack, it sounds like that might have already started happening.

          Good luck! Doing your job well is going to be your best path forward, proving to your boss and whoever else was involved in the hiring position that you were the right hire.

        4. random person*

          I realize this might be extreme, but maybe look into the laws in your state re: recording conversations. If the law allows, it might not hurt to set your phone to record if you ever find yourself alone again with that senior staffer (who sounds like a world-class a-hole).

          I’m also wondering what the deal is with the CPA that they voted to hire. Maybe that person had the ‘right’ religious card??? It just seems bizarre for them to be that hostile to you from the get-go. Like others have said, I’d document everything.

        5. Me ... Just Me*

          I wonder if you could christian-shame Aaron? Next time he does something shifty, pull out the “I know you’re a church going godly man, so I was hoping that ….” Or, bring it to his attention that one of his fellow old-timers said mean things to you and you want his advice as a “church going godly man”. He might just eat that right up.

      2. Warrior Princess Xena*

        I can confirm that if you have to say that you’re a ‘Godly man with integrity’ it’s the religious equivalent of calling yourself a ‘Nice Guy’. That’s not something you should have to say with words.

        Also as a CPA, I can comfortably say that I’ve met plenty of incompetent and/or inexperienced CPAs. Unless you’re hiring for something that requires a certain level of certification clout, experience will be a heck of a lot more valuable than certification. Math and stats degrees are no less challenging than business degrees and I salute you for your accomplishments. Your Sr staff is a jerk too.

    7. SomebodyElse*

      Coming into the comments way late but I couldn’t resist:

      “A bit exasperated, I kept an even tone “Well I have no use for that information but I wish you a pleasant rest of the day” and opened my hand towards the door. ”

      Good for you giving this response! Well played.

      Now a little bit of advice. Keep doing what you’ve been doing. In the meantime, look for another job either in the company and away from these 3 if possible or with another company. It sounds like you might have an ally with the VP so you may be able to find a little cover there while you look.

    8. Qwerty*

      – Document every little thing. Keep in a location you can access from home that isn’t tied to your work account at all. Email yourself the entries so they are dated/timestamped. Include as much detail you can – quotes where possible, who was in the conversation, who witnessed the interaction, who you told about the situation (could be reporting to boss, HR, execs, or even just discussing with peers)

      – If you get fired, get a lawyer and show them the documentation. They should be able to negotiate part of your severance being to keep the relocation bonus. At a minimum, you’ve got a boss who took religion into account when have a performance discussion with you, and flat out told you he was taking Aaron’s side over yours because of religion.

      – Build your relationships with the VPs who like you. Try to meet with them neutrally at first, in the spirit of getting to know them to support them better and sprinkle in some small talk. Especially the VP who had your back on the report – when you are comfortable with her, let her know that your boss uses individual’s religion when making team decisions and about the “we don’t want you” conversation.

      – Continue building relationships with the younger employees who you get along with. Let them know about the s**t that happens in a professional manner. This is to help create a trail so that you contemporaneous accounts to back you up.

      This sucks. If you are able to find a new job, its likely that you can get them to cover the relocation bonus.

      You need to tell someone in leadership about the religion conversation to get protection if/when your boss continues to discriminate against you for being atheist vs going to his church. I get that HR is not safe for you, so it can wait a little bit while you build a relationship with someone who has clout to protect you. It is important because right now if you were fired your boss could deny the conversation ever happened, so you want something in writing with someone with the power to do something as your paper trail.

    9. My Cabbages!*

      Wait, you have to pay it back if you quit *or are fired*???

      So, they can keep you for 1 year 11 months and 29 days then drop you AND make you pay for the privilege of being fired?

    10. Stoppin' by to chat*

      Actually I would tell your manager about the “we don’t want you here” comment. I mean if you feel comfortable. You could say something like, “I thought about what we discussed in my 30 day review. However, I was so shocked at the time I didn’t mention this, but wanted to now since I could use some guidance navigating this situation. So-and-so came in 5 mins before you did and told me explicitly they wanted to hire a different candidate, and that the team doesn’t want me here.” Since you mentioned improving my relationship with the rest of the team, I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

      Again, you may not want to, and I get that. But that was such an inappropriate comment, that you could take the approach Allison often recommends; to treat the situation like OF COURSE your manager will say something to the other employee, because what kind of a person tells a fell coworker they don’t want them there!

      Otherwise, you could lean into the relationships your building with VPs, etc and explain that you’re concerned about how you can continue to be successful at the company when you’re being treated this way. And that if the team doesn’t want you there you would be happy to leave the company now, but would not pay pack the relocation bonus due to the situation. I mean, if you’re planning to look for a new job anyway, and you were there for such a short time, may as well burn that bridge and leverage your good will!

  18. Sunflower*

    How does one gauge if they should be worried about losing their job during a recession esp if they are new-ish to the company (4 months)? I was in college in 2008 so I’ve never dealt with something impending like this before. I work for a very large tech company, I’m the only person who does my role on my team (although there are other people in my org who perform very similar roles).

    I feel pretty complacent in my job- I do a good job and care about my work product but I’m done breaking my back and grinding when it’s not required trying to prove my worth. I really don’t want to put more on my plate to show my worth but is this something I need to do to ensure my job is safe? What have others done in the past that’s worked?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I think rather than take on more projects it’s better to showcase some soft skills. If you’ve got 5 people in the company who can do task X doing more of task X won’t help you know? Efficiency + lack of errors maybe one way to judge the 5. But if you have to pick 2/5 to go, other skills are going to be things like are they easy to work with, do they learn and retain new information easily, are they both an independent worker as well as a good teammate, do they manage to reply to their email and calendar promptly? If you’ve got a good relationship with your boss you could talk to them about your worries, some fields aren’t super effected by recessions you may be worrying for nothing.

      And then keep your resume up to date just in case and chuck extra into savings if you can.

    2. OrdinaryJoe*

      To be blunt … in my opinion, there’s not a lot you can do with only 4 months on the job. Make sure your resume is up to date and save … The good thing is that you are probably making less money and costing the company less than people who have been there for several years so you might have that going for you.

      During a re-org (not exactly the same thing but …) a manager at my level but with many years less at the job was kept while I was offered a buy-out because they were costing the company a good deal less than me due to seniority and benefits that came with yrs of service, even if our base salaries were close.

    3. Educator*

      Jaded elder millennial here—no job is ever truly “safe” and anyone who thinks they have job security is kidding themselves. That’s just the reality of capitalism. Once you accept that, you can make choices that help secure your future regardless of what happens with any one job —save as much as you can, keep building new skills and staying on top of industry trends, network and develop a good reputation, figure out how you would get healthcare if you lost your job, and save some more. Layoff decisions at large companies are rarely made by people who know you or your work in any detail.

      Sorry, that is a really pessimistic answer! But after a recession and a pandemic, I feel like we cannot depend on any one employer anymore. We have to take care of ourselves.

  19. AnxiousAF*

    My toxic manager pushed me over the mental health edge and I’m out of work on STD. I can’t imagine going back at this point, and I feel like it’s career suicide, but I needed to take care of myself. Any advice from someone who has been there?

    1. Posie*

      I’m so sorry. I left a job once with no backup plan because my boss was sexually harassing and mentally abusing me. He was a doctor, the owner of his practice with no HR. I truly had nowhere to turn. I filed for unemployment, which was declined, and reported him to the state medical board. I was unemployed for 5 months during a time when my husband’s income was severely reduced. Somehow, we made it, and we only had to borrow a little money from my parents! I honestly don’t know if I would do it differently if I could go back in time. If I had confronted him and stayed, he would have made my life even more miserable. If I had waited until I had a new job to leave, there’s no telling how much more abuse I would have endured. To this day, this was the single worst experience of my life, so I guess in retrospect, I did the right thing by just walking out.

      In terms of advice, I can offer this: don’t be afraid to get a menial job that pays the bills and doesn’t require much mental effort while you recover from this experience. I had 2 of these on my road to recovery and they were honestly the best things for me. I still look back fondly on my month of sorting pretty nail polishes in a beauty product distribution center for 5 hours a day. Today, I’m back on my original career path and making almost double what I did when I had to walk out of that job. Take care of yourself above all else.

    2. Joielle*

      My spouse was there around this time last year. He ended up taking a month off with FMLA and his health was so much better not having to deal with his toxic manager every day. He gave his two weeks notice on the day he returned from leave with nothing else lined up. Within a month he had an offer from a consulting firm to do similar work but with a 30% raise, fully remote, much better work life balance, and a very supportive team and boss. His health is not 100% even now, but it’s a world of difference. His stress is about 20% of what it was and his schedule is very flexible for therapist and specialist appointments.

      In interviews, he said that he left his previous job because the work life balance became untenable after some colleagues left and their positions weren’t filled, and he was glad to be able to take some time off to be really deliberate in his job search and figure out what he wanted to do next. That seemed to go over just fine and he didn’t have to talk about the health impacts at all.

      My advice is to start looking at other jobs while you’re on leave and see what’s out there. Take as much time off as you can. My spouse is honestly kicking himself for not taking that leap much sooner – it’s scary to leave a job with nothing lined up but not necessarily career suicide at all!

  20. SnapCracklePop*

    I have two questions:

    1) I’ve been interviewing with a company who requested references because they said they wanted to talk to them before doing final interviews next week. I’m going to be traveling for a week starting mid-next-week—do I need to tell them this ahead of time? They didn’t acknowledge my reference info e-mail, and as far as I know my references haven’t been contacted, so I don’t know that I’m still even being considered.

    2) I want to leave my current job because of my boss, which I obviously can’t say if asked why I’m leaving when I quit. I feel like I need to have a “good” reason though because my boss will likely be angry or upset and want an explanation. Would it be reasonable to say I’m leaving because I’m worried about getting laid off? Company leaders keep mentioning financial problems in townhall meetings and team leadership has assured us several times there are no planned layoffs. But I was assured I wouldn’t be laid off before I was laid off from a previous job (which resulted in very long-term unemployment). So this should be a reasonable reason to leave based on my past experience?

    1. ThatGirl*

      1. I would only mention this if/when they follow back up, unless you are going to be totally unreachable while traveling.

      2. yes, worry about layoffs is a perfectly legitimate reason – as well as wanting new opportunities in general.

      1. SnapCracklePop*

        Luckily I won’t be totally unreachable, but I won’t be able to do in-person interviews and I won’t be checking e-mail as often. I was also leaning toward not saying anything unless they follow up (since at the moment I am not expecting to hear back from them).

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      1) The day before you leave on your trip, if you still haven’t heard anything from either your references about being contacted, or your contact with the company, you could send your contact a note that said, “I’ll be travelign with very limited availability from x date to x date; in the event you need to reach me during that time, I’ll be slower to to respond than usual”.
      2) Nope, don’t say either of those things. If it even comes up during the final interview, just say something like, “I’m looking for new challenges, and the career progression series at current company is stalled due to the market” [or whatever bland non-reason you like].”

    3. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      I wouldn’t say you’re worried about being laid off, that might prompt more in depth questions. In my experience a simple “I’m looking to do more of X, which my current job doesn’t have” is enough or even “I’m ready to take on a new challenge”

      Most of the time that is enough.

      1. cncx*

        I’m leaving my current job because of my boss and this is what I have said exactly, that I can’t do enough of x in my current job (while leaving out the part that it’s because my boss won’t let me for what are his personal sexist reasons…)

    4. Zephy*

      1. It’s not a bad idea to proactively let the new company know that you will be unavailable for interviews from X date to Y date. If they’re interested in you, they can make it work; if they aren’t, that saves them time. You will not lose your shot at this job for being proactive and considerate of their time, and if that IS the thing that turns them off about you, this is not a place you want to work.

      2. Are you worried about what to say to interviewers, or what to say to your boss? Your boss can feel how she feels and throw her tantrum, you’re not obligated to share any more information with her than “my last day is X.”

      1. Gracely*

        I mean, presumably SnapCracklePop wants to keep their reference intact/not burn bridges, so a polite response is worth having. I’d go with something vague like “I’m looking for a new challenge” as others have suggested. Maybe “I’m concerned about the company’s financial stability because of the recent townhalls, and this opportunity came up.”

        1. SnapCracklePop*

          Yes, I do want to be able to get a good reference.

          I don’t think my boss will throw a tantrum or do anything dramatic, but I think she’ll be upset or angry because she asked me a few weeks ago to let her know if there was anything she could do to improve as a manager or anything she could change to keep me happy (a lot of people on our team, albeit under other managers, have quit in the last year, so I think there is a general worry of losing more people). But one of the reasons I want to leave is that when I come to her with problems (typically things that aren’t my fault), she gets angry with me, which makes me feel unsafe about asking questions or bringing up concerns. So I think she’ll be upset that I’m leaving when I didn’t give her suggestions on how to improve her management style or the team. I thought giving a reason totally out of her control would make her less upset.

          1. Zephy*

            I mean, even if she is the reason you’re looking, you aren’t leaving AT her. You aren’t her parent, it’s not your responsibility to teach her how to behave. You can’t “make” her feel or act any type of way, she has choices about how she behaves because she is an adult, and you already know that no suggestions you could have made would have helped. You’re allowed to leave jobs for good reasons, bad reasons, or no reason at all.

          2. Her name was Joanne*

            Or if you want to make it as painless as possible, you could always go with the standard “ an opportunity fell into my lap that was just too good to pass up.”

          3. linger*

            If a large number of coworkers have recently left, that should reduce the risk of layoffs, so that excuse may no longer have sufficient face validity!
            But can you ask any of those recent departures what reason(s) they gave?
            Otherwise, some selection from the old standbys of “seeking new challenges”, “seeking a better work-life balance”, “seeking to move into [different subfield]” could work for you.

      2. SnapCracklePop*

        My first instinct was to be considerate since I’m a considerate person by nature, but then I had doubts while thinking about by ghosted by employers so many times (after doing multiple interviews, after providing references, after being told I’d definitely hear back by x date, etc.). So that’s why I’m waffling on it. I guess I’d just feel extra stupid to reach out to them about my trip if it turns out that they end up ghosting me.

    5. Stoppin' by to chat*

      Re: #2 – Who cares what your boss thinks? I mean, yes, in the moment it feels really big. And a boss who will upset tells me there are more issues with this boss anyway! People quitting jobs is a thing that happens. It’s fine to use a really basic script…Allison has many on this site. “This opportunity fell in your lap and you just couldn’t say no.” Or, you were interested in doing x in y industry, and what do you know, a job where you can do exactly that!” Again, I know it seems like you need a “good” reason, but you don’t. All you need to say is that you’re giving your two weeks notice, that x will be your last day, and if you’ve also thought about a transition plan, then share that as well.

      Are you newer in your career? I ask because when I left my first company after university after 6.5 years I felt like I was leaving a family! But guess what, I left in a calm, practical manner (they were surprised but not one got upset with me), I just kept saying it felt like time to try a different employer, and then I moved on. I promise once you give your notice it will feel like such a relief. Then you can focus on the bare minimum to transition and wrap stuff up (as feasible, do not work crazy hours during your notice period), and then you’re done with that job!

      Good luck!

  21. Daystar*

    Why do jobs require a background check? I’ve recently gotten a new part time job writing some research related blog posts, and a background check is required before I begin. I understand it for some positions where you are working with sensitive information, money, or caretaking (among other things) but it seems a bit overkill for this role. I’m working remotely, so it’s not as if I’ll even be in an office where I could steal staplers or something. They didn’t do a reference check, which would presumably be another way to find out if my work history is legit. I don’t mind doing it and it’s not as if I have to pay for the check, but what is the reasoning? I’m genuinely curious why this is worth doing for employers. It may just be university policy, I suppose.

      1. Американка (Amerikanka)*

        I am guessing it is general university policy as well. Even part time student workers at my university employer are required to undergo background checks.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      If this is in the US, university = Title IX = concern about anything in your past that could be construed as sexual harassment or assault. Easier to make a blanket policy, even if you never come within 200 miles of a student.

    3. Maggie*

      They don’t want people with a criminal past to work for them. Take that in whatever way you want but that’s why. I had to take a hair drug test for my sales job. Why? Company policy! But I do work with high value goods so background checks are totally normal to me.

    4. WiscoKate*

      At my university, all employees except students are required to go through a background check, regardless of position. It’s just policy.

    5. Irish Teacher*

      If it’s in a university, my guess would be that it is because of underage students. Some people start college before turning 18 and while yeah, people aren’t necessarily at significantly higher risk at 17 and 10 months than they are at 18 and one month and many staff may not even be having much interaction with students, nonetheless it IS a job where staff may be around young people who are are away from home for the first time and who may be naive.

      I think it does make sense for people who may be interacting with students. As others have said you don’t want people with a history of sexual harrassment for example around young people or people who have a history of violence or scamming (a lot of young people are quite naive and could be easily scammed).

    6. Daystar*

      Sounds like a common policy for universities from these replies, perhaps because of title ix stuff/interactions with students. It struck me as a blunt tool given that my job will be 300 miles from the university writing blogs at home five hours a week, but that’s policy for you! I suppose it would be more complicated to get into the weeds of whether it would be useful for each individual position.

    7. Warrior Princess Xena*

      If you’ll be at a university you’ll presumably have some access to student information. Chances of it actually affecting you if you’re a normal person – 0.0001%. Chances of doing some damage if you’re a technologically skilled and highly immoral person – depends on your internal security but probably 15% or higher.

      Also working with minors.

      Think about it this way: the cost to the university is maybe $50-$100/person. Cost of a lawsuit resulting from them not doing the background check and missing something (like not being allowed around minors, previous incarcerations for massive financial fraud) – probably well into the 6 figures even before including the costs of implementing new security controls, losing incoming students to bad press, losing grants due to bad press, losing good staff who quit in fury, etc. It’s a lot easier and safer for them to just do the background test on everyone under the assumption that they’ll get back a whole lot of nothing.

      Equivalent in my job: I will do a keyword search of the financial accounts I audit for words like ‘fraud’. Do I expect to find something? No. Will I look really, really stupid if it comes out that Company A was committing fraud and wrote ‘fraud’ in a memo? Absolutely 100%.

    8. Chauncy Gardener*

      All the companies I’ve worked for have required a background check. Various reasons. If you’re going to be driving for your job, or have a company car, they wanted to know if you had a bad driving record. If not that, in general it was to see if you had any major recent criminal convictions. If there was one in the past, that often wasn’t a dealbreaker, unless you would be working on a government project.

  22. Professional Training Quals*

    Hi all

    I have the opportunity to do a professional qualification in learning & development, specifically for Facilitation Skills. I’ve run workshop and training for over ten years but don’t have a ‘rubber stamp’ to say I can actually do this.

    I’m aware of TAP and CIPD as options, and wondered if anyone had any other suggestions if things to investigate, and/ or any experience as a facilitator/trainer doing any of these qualifications?

    I’m UK based, but welcome thoughts from ours wide UK too.

    Thank you.

    1. I'm Just Here for the Cake*

      I’m not sure if its just US based, but the Associated for Talent Development (ATD) has a facilitation program that I’ve heard really good things about!

    2. Anonymous facilitator*

      I took the intro session from Interaction Associates years ago, it was super cheesy and very touchy feely mostly social services type people take these sessions, I think. It was still really useful and the content was explained in easy to follow language. Might be less cheesy these days, if that’s not your style at all I don’t think it’d be good. I like some cheesiness,but it was a bit much for me.

    3. cubone*

      Technology of Participation (TOP) from ICA. It’s international so I believe you could find something. There may be different trainings and programs but a fantastic, well-regarded approach to facilitation and training.

      I’d also recommend Art of Hosting training.

      I am considered doing CTP (certified training professional – the Canadian designation) and have an adult education degree so maybe able to answer some questions. A continuing Ed program or certificate can be more all encompassing and valuable, but I really really recommend TOP as a possible starting point.

  23. I'm Just Here for the Cake*

    My manager, who hired me 3 years ago and I had a really good relationship with, retired this week. She wasn’t a great manager, but I did have a very solid relationship with her that included talk of promotions in the future. Now I feel like I’m starting from square one with my new manager.

    To make matters more complicated, new manager has already alienated a lot of people on my team by making major changes without input from the team or other departments who would be effected, and dismissing any feedback she receives. She has also been extremely tight lipped about these decisions and major projects that are in the pipeline that the team time to prep for.

    I’m trying to figure out the best ways of establishing a relationship with her while also navigating the politics on the team. Should I reach out to her about setting up a recurring one-on-one? What else can I do? Any advice is supper appreciated!

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      Definitely set up a recurring 1:1 with her! It’ll help her feel more in touch with what you’re doing and might help foster mutual trust. I’d also give her time – it’s not great that she hasn’t been very communicative with your team so far, but it hasn’t been very long and maybe her reasons will become clearer as you get to know her style.

  24. Looking for a change*

    I’m at a point where I think I want to change to a completely new field, and I’m not sure where to start. I’m hoping the commentators here can give me some ideas.

    My background: I spent six years helping found and run a small media company with a few friends. After we unfortunately had to close our doors, I got a fully remote job as an editor at a medium-sized, niche publishing company. Now, two years later, I’m feeling extremely burned out, frustrated that all of my creative energy is being used up on projects I don’t care about, and just done with the stress and demands of working in the arts and destroying my life to hit print deadlines. I’ve been daydreaming about getting a regular 9-to-5 that I don’t care much about and spending my free time on all the barely-started personal projects I have languishing in notebooks and random word docs.

    Most of my jobs outside my creative field were retail gigs in my teens and twenties. I actually don’t mind retail work, but I do mind the low pay, pointless rules, and irregular, inflexible schedules of most retail jobs. And although my pay as an editor isn’t great by many standards, for the first time in my life I have actual savings and a car that isn’t about to start dropping parts on the road behind me, and I don’t want to give that up. So…some sort of office job? I’m feeling really lost about what to do next, or even where to look.

    Does anyone have suggestions for the kinds of jobs that might be a good fit for me while also hitting the “reasonable hours, no/minimal crunch, middle-class salary” requirement? I have good communication and writing skills and experience managing complex projects with many moving parts, plus a lot of random, low level skills and knowledge I picked up as a small business founder (I’ve learned a lot about shipping and receiving, I can do basic website maintenance, I’ve run professional social media, and I can fumble my way around most of the Creative Suite, for example). I’m having trouble figuring out what all this adds up to, and who would want to hire me. The term “project manager” seems to mean wildly different things in different fields, but maybe something similar to that concept?

    Any ideas would be incredibly helpful. Thank you!

    2. Westsidestory*

      You don’t mention your editorial experience is in magazines (online or otherwise) or in book publishing. There are many opportunities in book publishing besides editorial where your generalist background might be welcome, and if this was your first foray into books, well there is a lot out there.

      I’ve worn a lot of hats in book publishing and found there are many people who happily thrive I. 9-5. The experience wanted is in being detail-conscious while handling often temperamental brings.
      Spend some time on the following job sites to see if you can tailor your current resume:
      Bookjobs.com
      Publishers Lunch
      Publishers Weekly

      1. Westsidestory*

        Sorry meant temperamental “beings.” Authors are great fun, but I’ve never met a publisher who wasn’t crazy in their own special way.

    4. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Media agencies are always looking for people who can pick up the basics of the industry quickly while being organised and able to communicate well. You could do one of the free Google Academy courses to get some background knowledge.

    5. WellRed*

      I work as an editor in niche B2B publishing. It’s steady, hour wise. There’s a few crunchy periods but it’s not crazy stupid. Maybe you are in the wrong niche? You keep referring to arts. If you mean that literally, look into something more business focused.

    6. Filosofickle*

      Have you considered just going in-house? Agency and publishing life are grinds. Your skills would transfer to comms / media / editing on the corporate side — a good bridge for now while you figure out a bigger shift. The key is finding a low-profile, boring, stable company that’s not prone to media crises or crunch periods. I was interviewing for comms jobs a couple years ago and there was a huge enterprise software company that I was interested in precisely because the work would be technical, scheduled, and steady (with the exception of occasional events). And they paid great! OTOH, the healthcare company I was talking to had “crisis comms” in the job description, there was more community outreach, and the pay was low so I bailed on that one.

    7. mreasy*

      Chief of Staff or other internal comms focused roles seem like something you’d do well in. Or running a Mailorder department?

  25. Newbie*

    Tldr: how do I decide between an offer at a busier company with more long term potential for salary growth and staying at my comfortable, slow job with a counter offer?
    I’m choosing between three offers that are similar money: one at a competitor where I’d be a cog on a small team, one at a different competitor where I’d be a cog on a large team, and one counteroffer at my current company. The competitors are industry leaders with large, busy portfolios; my current company is smaller and doesn’t have as much work for me to do. However, my current boss has told me she wants to train me for management (something I’m very interested in) although it would probably be a few years before I actually got a management position at my current company because of the way they operate. Current company’s people culture is great, they’re just slow and a bit boring. I’ve heard good things about both competitor’s cultures, but their work will be much harder. What sorts of things should I consider when I’m making this decision? Working at the competitors might give me the opportunity to spin off into a more lucrative consulting position in a few years, but staying where I am would probably get me to management a little faster.

    1. Rosengilmom*

      Not ever the counteroffer. If your employer hasn’t advanced you to date, there’s no reason to believe they will in the future

    2. ABK*

      Which boss do you think would be best for you to work with?
      Think about how hard and how much you want to work, and what your work/life balance will be in all 3 positions. Would you prefer consulting, or managing others?
      I’d probably make a pros and cons list for all 3 and let that guide me to a decision.

    3. PollyQ*

      it would probably be a few years before I actually got a management position

      I’d interpret this to mean “possibly never” and therefore discount it from consideration. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could get yourself into management just as quickly at either of the other companies.

    4. Anon for This*

      Don’t take the counter-offer. Your boss now knows you want to leave and will be working to replace you, not to promote you. I’ve seen it happen before.

      Personally, I would take the job with long-term potential as long as you don’t see any red flags from the people you would be working with.

    5. Dino the Dinosaur*

      What about the possibility of taking a job with a competitor now but leaving the door open to come back later? Will the positions at the other companies give you the experience and training you need for a management position? If you do decide to leave, you can let your boss know that you’d love to come back when a management position opens up. Of course there’s no guarantee that they’ll bring you back, but it sounds like if you stay there’s no guarantee the position will materialize.

  26. MizLisa*

    Question. I am a director with a great team in a pretty good company. My reviews have consistently being great and I’ve been told I’m on lists to be future C-suite. The leadership is warm and authentic. Sounds great, right? But our company is being acquired by a foreign company and there are some uncertainties associated with that, and so on the advice of my (VP) boss, I’ve been keeping an eye out for opportunities. Not to jump at anything out there, but to seriously look at things that might be a step up.

    There was a role posted in my industry last week that is managing director level and that I have specific expertise for. I know the hiring manager for the role, not amazingly well, but we did work in the same company years ago (he is senior to me). He is a bit known for having an ego. I sent him a friendly note on LinkedIn basically saying hello, wishing him well, giving him a brief recap of what I do now and what the situation is (the acquisition is well known in the industry) and asking if he could spare 15 min for a quick chat to see if the MD role could be a fit.

    I didn’t think this was unusual; I get these reach outs as a hiring manager all the time and respond to them. But he has left me on read, although he did look at my LinkedIn profile.

    Was I off base in reaching out? He is quite a senior person, and perhaps it was presumptuous? But the industry is small and we have a past connection, and it’s not like I’m some unqualified person taking a flyer. I feel weird about applying to the MD role now, but I might be overanalyzing this. Thoughts?

    1. Qwerty*

      Go ahead and apply! I’m assuming if you didn’t know the hiring manager you would have applied to this position, so move forward with that.

      I can speculate, but none of my speculations really change my advice. Some possibilities:
      – He didn’t see your message but LI algos suggested you as “hey, remember MizLisa?” since you messaged him so he clicked on your profile -> Apply anyway so he knows for sure you are interested in the position
      – He read your message (LI sends the message via email too, you can read it without opening the app), checked your profile, then got distracted before replying and has now either totally forgotten you messaged him or thinks that he already replied -> Apply anyway
      – He might not think it is appropriate to give an informational interview when he’s the hiring manager or thinks that you are going around the system. Message could be read and discarded or ignored in this scenario. Some people could construe that as you getting an “extra” interview or advantage. -> Apply anyway, you’ll get to talk him in the interview
      – He doesn’t think you are a good fit -> Apply anyway, the worst he can do is not give you an interview

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      That kind of reach out is totally appropriate and what LinkedIn is for IMHO. Go ahead and apply — he probably put off responding until he had time and then forgot. And if he didn’t and took offense (which would be really weird), you’re no worse off for having applied.

  27. Zap R.*

    I’m the Office Administrator at a radio station/media company and I’ve been here for three years with only cost-of-living raises and a title-only promotion in that time. There are a lot of issues but the one that sticks out right now is that the office vending machine is broken.

    The ancient, decrepit vending machine is essentially a sacred object to my coworkers and thus the bane of my existence. Every day in the office involves at least one complaint about snacks getting stuck, change getting eaten, snacks being too healthy, snacks being not healthy enough, pop being too lukewarm, etc… People hand me $100 bills and ask me to make change from the petty cash. It’s a nightmare.

    This week, I returned from my first vacation in a year to find that the vending machine had finally, FINALLY, broken down for good. My joy was short-lived, however, for my company can’t afford to replace the machine right now. While I was gone, they came up with a solution: they told everyone to bring money to my desk and order snacks from me directly. I am then expected to drop what I am doing (which is lot because I’m the friggin’ Office Admin) and fetch people their order.

    This is silly, right? Do I have standing to push back on this?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Yes, that is ridiculous. A better solution (though not ideal) would be for people to pay you ahead of time and then once a week you put an order in or go to the store (during work hours!).

      1. Zap R.*

        Thanks. Typing it all out made me realize I wasn’t nuts so I talked to my (very reasonable) supervisor. My supervisor says that we’ll just have people give me the money and then fetch their own snacks from the kitchen/storage room. It’s the honour system but it’s better than me taking time out of my day to essentially run a tuck shop.

        I think I was just caught off guard by my coworkers taking for granted that I would drop everything to bring them snacks. I wasn’t sure if that was a valid way to feel or if I was overreacting.

    2. Ann Ominous*

      I would try to ballpark quantify the impact “10 requests per day at 5 mins per request is nearly an hour extra per day” and recommend a pile of snacks and the honor system.

    5. Ez*

      Can they afford to replace you? I’d ask for a raise or tell them to hire a snack person or order a new machine. That, or do it for a month and demonstrate loss of productivity in areas in your job description they care more about.

    6. Charlotte Lucas*

      That is absolutely ridiculous! If they want something like that, there needs to be a system in place where requests come by a specific time & you have time to run out set in your schedule (separate from your breaks).

      What I don’t understand is why they don’t contract with a vendor who will provide a vending machine & its contents.

      1. WellRed*

        Yes I thought vending machines ( or honor snack boxes supplied by a vendor) were basically a consignment arrangement.

    7. Thistle Pie*

      Is there any reason why the office can’t have an honor system snack shelf set up? Take a survey of peoples favorite snacks, order those, and set up a basket for cash that you empty at the end of the day. It’s on them to have change or make it among their coworkers.

      2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

        That’s how we do it. And if these grown adults need someone else to do their snack shopping for them, they can figure out their own change. A display of snack foods that can be ordered online, and soda in the office fridge in a designated spot and good luck with that. Refill no more than once a day.

    8. Christmas Carol*

      Am I the only one channeling Jennifer Marlow from WKRP explaining to Herb, Les, Andy, and the Big Guy why she doesn’t have the time to fetch the snacks.

    9. Hannah L*

      I basically have the same position as you. In my office we bulk order snacks and soda from Costco. They have a business website, and they deliver. Our account is on a corporate credit card, but I assume there’s probably a way to just get invoiced instead if the card isn’t an option.

      Just an idea!

    10. Please Mark This Confidential and Leave It Lying Around*

      Are these adults or children? Do you work in an area that sells food of any sort in walking distance? Do you work with people who are expected to take care of themselves in other respects or do you work with people who need basic assistance? If these are adults, you are located somewhere other than Antarctica or the Australian Outback, and everyone got themselves to work with the proper clothing on for the office and the weather, they can manage to bring their own snacks to work.

    11. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      Can you convince an external vending machine company to take over? In my (limited) experience, a lot of these types of office vending machines are run by outside companies. I think the way it works is that they provide and stock the machine in exchange for getting the money made by sales from the machine, so you’re basically letting the outside company run a small, automated shop in your breakroom and the whole thing is no longer your problem. This would probably cause item prices to be higher if you’re currently running it as a break-even service, but would mean it was no longer taking up any staff time. (Except for the making change part, which also might be solved if the new machine takes cards.)

    12. pjm*

      Do not do this. This is outrageous. Grown people acting like toddlers. Let them buy their own snacks and bring them into the office. If you thought you were troubled before, it is going to get so much worse!

    13. migrating coconuts*

      You need to get an outside vendor. I work in a very small place (20employees) and we have a guy who does vending machines in the area. He placed it, he fills it, he collects the money, and we call him if it stops working. No time or money invested on our end.

  28. MissGirl*

    I’m interviewing at a small tech start up. They don’t even have a Glassdoor presence. What question should I be asking? What other due diligence can I do to get them?

    1. irene adler*

      If there are investors, there is a 10-K document that is filed with the SEC. That will have information on the company-the good, the bad, and even the ugly. If this company has a website, look under Investors or something similar. It will give you an accurate assessment of the business itself. It’s a big document so use the table of contents to locate specific information.
      Also, how much ‘runway’ is there? What’s the plan for continued funding? Is there money in the bank or are they planning to do fundraising of some sort? Or do they expect the product to be selling by the time they are out of funds? Okay, what’s the plan when that doesn’t happen per their timetable? (some of this can be answered with the 10-K document).

      What’s the growth plan? How does this plan affect the position you are interviewing for?
      Issue here can be such that more duties are given to the current employees. That’s fine until you are overburdened. What’s the plan when that happens? If they are in it for long-term they will understand that more hands will need to be brought in. So ask about the plans for the department you will be working in.

      There’s two kinds of start-up people: (1) folks who plan to run the business long-term (2) folks who plan to grow the company enough to sell it off for big profit.

      For #1, do they have an understanding of how business works? Maybe they have employed folks who know how to run a business? Hope so! Nothing worse than a good company that tanks from lack of business knowledge.

      For #2, expect the company to be run “lean and mean”. They have to keep to a tight bottom line to attract buyers. Don’t expect much help to be brought in if you are overburdened.

      Advice if you do decide to work there: get as high a salary as you can. Raises may not come on the regular.

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Additionally: trust your gut. If it’s a small startup you should have the opportunity to meet your boss & coworkers before being hired. Make sure you get to meet the people before signing your offer. This is one situation where a lunch interview/office tour might be especially called for, assuming there’s any in-person component. If not, having a zoom meet & greet would be called for.

      1. MissGirl*

        Thanks. If I advance, I should be meeting with the COO and a team member in addition to the hiring manager.

  29. Amber Rose*

    We have a problem employee. She’s a nice person, but a very frustrating coworker. She supervises a department that handles a very specific thing, say teapot packaging. But she’s constantly annoying people by spending hours flagging teapots she thinks haven’t been billed properly, or insisting we charge for extra services despite sales saying no, or even selling things herself for a nightmare few months.

    I’m told she wants to move out of packaging, and I was asked if I would consider her for a position that will ultimately probably report to me. I have zero interest in trying to manage the unmanageable. She doesn’t listen, and she never has. When she’s told things are none of her business, she apologizes and then starts right back in on it with someone else.

    I’m really worried they’re going to force her on me and everything is going to explode.

    1. Rick Tq*

      Your first meeting if she is assigned to you probably needs to be a Boundaries and Behaviors discussion about what is acceptable working for you, and consequences if she continues her typical behaviors.

      One major item should be that not following your directions regarding pursuing issues not in her scope will get her put on a PIP quickly.

    2. PollyQ*

      Have you made it clear to your manager (or whoever will make the decision about a transfer) that you don’t want her on your team and exactly why? Seems like the best way to deal with the problem is to avoid it, if at all possible. But if it can’t be avoided, then I like Rick Tq’s advice.

      1. irene adler*

        Agree with PollyQ- Rick Tq . Only thing: make sure everything you do adheres to the employee manual. Otherwise, there might be some push back (legit) from the problem employee as to not following the rules. Don’t give her the chance to claim something like that.

  30. Insert Witticism Here*

    What are some jobs/pathways for someone who loves learning but doesn’t want to switch careers every few years in order to get their fix?

    I’m reaching rope’s end at CurrentJob due to never having – or being able to clear – room on my plate for anything new. (Read: Bored out of my bloody skull.) Recently I had a short-lived brush with some actual upskilling, and I realised how much I miss learning. Not minor new tasks with 2-minute explanations. Not a rare day watching a screen while parroting the trainer’s every move, then never having a chance to use that skill again. I mean learning you can actually sink your teeth into. Mortgage notwithstanding, a return to university is beginning to have some appeal….

    So I’m looking for ideas for a change! All thoughts, from the seemingly obvious to the totally obscure, welcome. Bonus points if it doesn’t require years of study, but a grad course isn’t off the table.

    (Potentially relevant info: I’m not much of a people person, live in a largish non-US city, don’t drive, and have health reasons for not working outdoors.)

    1. ArtificialDonut*

      As a software developer, I spend a ton of my time learning the hip new JavaScript frameworks or researching if there’s someone who wrote a library to do X and if so how to use it. I’m basically a professional googler. Admittedly, it’s all within the “how to program” niche, so I don’t know if that’s broad enough to scratch your itch for learning. But I thought I’d put that out there.

    2. irene adler*

      Quality Assurance.

      visit asq.org

      They offer courses towards certifications in various aspects of Quality Assurance: Auditing, supply chain management, Quality engineering, etc.

    3. Generic+Name*

      Look at jobs that require continuing education credits. Also anything that deals with regulations that change. I work in consulting in a stem field, and this is the first job I’ve never been bored at. There’s always something to learn.

    4. Golden French Fry*

      What’s your background? If it’s anything sciency/healthcare related you could look into regulatory affairs? Regs and laws get updated frequently, so there’s always plenty to learn in as detailed or broad a manner as you like it.

      It’s a little hard to break into, but I find it rewarding and highly compensated with decent work life balance. It lends itself well to working from home, and I’ve never felt that being a more reserved person has held me back.

    5. Hen in a Windstorm*

      You don’t have to go get a degree to learn something new! You can just take a class/series of classes. Especially if you don’t want it to involve career switching. Learn bookkeeping, for example, or a specific software, or another language, or flamenco guitar.

      In the US, there is also an option to do something called “auditing”, where you sit in on classes at university, but you do not get class credit or have to take exams, i.e., just for the interest of it.

      Having gone to grad school and never used the degree, it’s likely a waste of money.

      1. Clisby*

        I audit classes every year at the college in my city. Because I’m over 60, it costs $50 a semester, no matter how many classes I audit. It’s great.

    6. cubone*

      If you loved upskilling, what about learning and development? It’s filled with people who are passionate about lifelong learning, and while there is some repetition, in larger companies you often get to work on different learning projects and learn about different areas of work. Even just figuring out new technological platforms was stimulating for me in this work. People who go the more facilitator/trainer route should probably be people persons (people people?), but if you focus on something like eLearning there’s a high degree of technical skills and independent work (though also people work as projects often include connecting to people and subject matter experts).

      Also if you have the funds I can’t stress this enough: go to a career counsellor.

    7. Gracely*

      You could try getting a job at a university–most of those include a couple of tuition-free classes per semester as a perk/benefit once you’ve worked there 6 months to a year. Then you could work fulltime and also slowly work toward a new degree. That’s how I got my master’s–took me a year longer than my starting cohort since I didn’t carry a full load, but it was free, and my boss was really supportive when it came to working around my classes. My spouse is actually doing the same thing right now so that they can expand their teaching availability to a second (somewhat adjacent) field.

      1. Esmeralda*

        Remember, colleges and universities have employees in all sorts of categories, not just faculty. Maybe even the field you are in right now.

        Now is a good time to be looking for work in higher ed, especially non-faculty positions.

    8. The New Wanderer*

      I completed two online certificate courses, each lasted 3-4 months, and the cost was nominal. I’m in the US and don’t know whether the online course programs I took are available elsewhere but something similar probably is.

      The content was created/taught by well-known universities, though it wasn’t the same level of rigor or investment as taking a full university course. And there were other people also in the class but no group-work requirements and the content was self-paced within week-long blocks (as in, you could complete everything in one day but you’d have to wait to the start of the next week for the next set of content). I found the structure and assignments kept it more rigorous than learning on my own and I really enjoyed it. In fact, I may consider doing another in the near future.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        This suggestion is more appropriate if you’re wanting to stay in your current job and just flex your learning interest, although if you are looking to make a move there are probably certificate courses that would help you develop resume-worthy skills.

    9. Hlao-roo*

      Can you switch to a different job at your current company? I’ve worked at a few places that were very supportive of people transferring around different teams that required similar background experience but did different things. Are there any teams/department you work with in your current job that you think you would be qualified to move to (and would the company support you switching teams/departments)?

    10. Free Meerkats*

      How about a path that doesn’t involve work? There are always classes available somewhere. Well, not so much right now because … waves hand. Until a couple of years ago I got my learning fix through classes put on by the local Parks Department. Back when it was affordable I learned to fly, later I took sailing lessons up to the point to where I was an instructor and was teaching others; I learned more teaching than I did training.

      Pick something completely unrelated to your work and force your brain to build other pathways.

  31. ecnaseener*

    When someone emails you asking you to do something “when you get the chance,” how do you interpret that?

    I use it to mean not urgent, as in “whenever you get around to it,” but I often get really fast responses and I’m wondering if it’s being taken as a synonym for ASAP. It’s hard to tell because I’m generally using it for quick and easy tasks, the type of thing you might just take two minutes to do right away rather than bothering to add it to your to-do list.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I would take it to mean “this week or next” not urgent/today. But can’t you just email back and ask, By when do you need it?

    2. CTT*

      I think people getting back to you quickly has more to do with it being quick/easy than the language you’re using. It’s nice to be able to get something done quickly!

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Exactly this. If I get a request and I know it won’t take long, I often do it right away to get it off my plate. Things like sending a document or answering a quick client question. That way I don’t have to worry about forgetting to do it. Now, granted, I’ve learned to leave things in my drafts folder so I can manage client expectations, but something internal I’ll just answer right away.

      2. ecnaseener*

        Thanks, that was my hope/assumption! It just occurred to me the other day that the phrase might be ambiguous, I used it to ask someone to fix a very minor, non-time-sensitive mistake and they responded right away with an apologetic tone – so I was like uh oh am I accidentally making things sound like a bigger deal than they are?

    3. CharlieBrown*

      If you’re worried about it, could you add a time frame?

      “When you get a chance, could you please do X? Any time before next Wednesday is fine.”

      That way, the person getting the request would know it’s not really urgent until Tuesday afternoon.

      1. Filosofickle*

        I really appreciate when people give a rough expectation. Because “when you can” could mean anything from “not something you have to pounce on immediately but in the next day or two” to “no deadline at all next month is fine”.

    4. Qwerty*

      A 2min task is easier for me to do in the moment and mentally move on from. Putting it on my to-do list and remembering to come back to it would take up more energy.

      I view it as someone being polite and generally triage it with what the request is, how much effort it takes, and how much I see it as being a blocker for someone. Usually I’ll either do it within a day or two or reply when an estimate of when I’ll get to it to make sure we’re on the same wavelength.

      If you are fine with a long turnaround (like a week or more), then feel free to phrase it as “low priority – can you send me the X file when you get a chance?” so really flag it as “don’t hurry on my account” but I’m guessing people are responding fast because they can.

    6. RagingADHD*

      I interpret it as “don’t drop everything this second, but do this before you start anything new.”

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        That interpretation for me is only when the request comes from someone who is director-level or higher. Or if I know something is high profile. Otherwise, it’s based on what fits into my day when

    7. Toodaloo*

      A lot of the time when I get that sort of “Whenever you get around to it” email, it’s something I use as a nice break from a task I’ve been working on for a long time. It lets me swap to something else for a short period of time without my brain stepping out of “work mode”.

    8. L. Ron Jeremy*

      I would usually reply, “ok, I’ll see if I can get to it within the next several weeks”. Their nebulous ask greeted with a nebulous answer. I’d usually get a more specific timeline after saying this. But if not? Then I wait until they ask again and say more urgent requests came in after their’s.

    9. fhqwhgads*

      I would take it as “within a week, probably” unless otherwise indicated. Depending on the thing though, if it’s a 5 minute thing and I have 5 minutes when I get it, it’s often easier to just do it than wait, or set a reminder for later, or whatever.
      Definitely should never be taken as “ASAP”. I do think what you’re seeing is in line with your 2-minute example, and you shouldn’t be concerned anyone interprets it as ASAP, but if it turns out later they were interpreting it that way, that’s a them problem.

    11. Mill Miker*

      I used to be responsible for triggering tasks for someone in a different timezone. The standing agreement between our employers was that tasks for this project needed to be completed ASAP, but I’d often be requesting minor things slightly outside of her regular hours.

      I’d use the “when convenient” phrasing to indicate tasks that weren’t worth putting in overtime or moving meetings around for, to really differentiate from some of actually “drop things and do this ASAP” requests.

  32. Seeking Second Childhood*

    A friend’s department has a new, remote employee and there are some issues.
    What are your favorite references to share on best practices for managing remote teams? Special request for ideas for performance expectations & monitoring results. I’ve seen discussions here but my google-fu is failing me this week and I’m only turning up a 2015 post from Alison.

  33. Американка (Amerikanka)*

    Are there any certifications that it would be worthwhile to pursue that would enhance job prospects?

    I am a library tech at a university looking to transition to a job like an academic advisor or similar. I am currently in a higher ed masters program part time and only have 1.5 years (three classes) left. I would enjoy a one on one job connecting people to resources. I am also open to managing staff and coordinating programs. I am open to leaving higher ed as well.

    I am looking for jobs now but am not advancing past the interview stage. I need help standing out more. Thank you for any tips!

    1. Alice*

      I think that connecting with people who can recommend you to their network would help even more than an additional certificate program. Can you find a way to work on some kind of collaboration between the library and the student success coordinators? Good luck

      1. ferrina*

        This. Experience and personal recommendations will make a bigger impact than a certificate (and some certificates can make you look naive, if it’s a field where the certificate programs are poorly regarded. Don’t trust the company selling the certificate to tell you).

        Start doing information interviews to learn more about what’s out there and how folks have entered those fields. Might want to look into non-profits or professional organizations (i.e., organizations devoted to supporting and advocating for a profession, like SHRM, AAP or ADA).

    2. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

      So, I’ve known some people who have worked as academic advisors, and you need to vet these jobs carefully. Obviously, the workload is going to vary widely by university/college/program, but the people I knew who did this job and hated it, hated it because their case load was way too big. So, there really wasn’t the time to actually advise students, it was more to do quick check-ins to make sure everyone was registering for the classes they needed for making academic progress.
      Have you considered admissions/recruiting jobs? Some of these positions are very student-facing.

    3. Gracely*

      Talk to the academic advisors at your university! Or anyone else in the jobs that you want to move into–ask them how they got into it. Ask them how they like their department/etc. They’ll know if there are any openings, and they’ll be able to tell you what to focus on in interviews–plus, internal transfers are often easier to hire.

      1. Anon for this, colleagues read here*

        Yes, talk with academic advisors and with the folks who supervise them. Be sure to ask about specific *skills* and *aptitudes* needed to be successful at this job.

        Go to the NACADA website and read everything.

        For most academic advising positions, you need to have actual experience working with college students. You generally need a masters degree — many places will want that to be in a related field. Positions where you don’t need to have that experience to get the job — those jobs tend to suck, big caseloads, poor training, crappy pay.

        A good cover letter will really really help you. Pay close attention to the posting and **do a deep dive on the program’s website**. Your letter needs to be thoughtful and *specific*.

        No fancy pants resumes. Clear, well organized, and no more than two pages. (I’ve been working for over 40 years, of which 30 years in academia as faculty, advising, and leadership, and I have a two-page resume. If you make me read through pages and pages, I will not be impressed with your lack of understanding of the norms of the field and I definitely will not think you are hot stuff.)

        I’ve been on a lot of hiring committees over the years for academic advisor positions at all levels. The big joke is how many “lawyer applications” we get — it’s a good percentage of the applications we receive, not sure why, but those never make it past the first review because **they have no experience working with college students at all**. Get some substantial experience working with this population.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      Unless the jobs specifically ask for a qualification that you lack, I would encourage you to think about how you’re presenting your skills and experience during the interview. You’re getting interviews, so the resume and the cover-letter are doing their job. (If you weren’t getting interviews I’d say take along hard look at those documents.) Talk to people who work as advisors at your school and ask them what they are looking for. I can’t be sure, but I would bet a lot of it has to do with experience working directly with college students. College students are a specific population and you need to build up experience working with them. Do you supervise or work with student assistants? (Every Academic library I’ve worked at had a bunch of student assistants.) That might be a way to develop skills working with that group.

  34. MissGirl*

    Open thread for everyone job hunting! What’s working and what isn’t? What are your successes and failures? What trends are you noticing?

    I have so many thoughts after the last few weeks of aggressively job hunting. :)

    1. Chidi has a stomachache*

      Piggybacking, because I’m in the thick of it. I’ve made it to one final interview, and I’m waiting to hear back (though it’s been long enough that I doubt I’m their first choice and I am likely waiting on a rejection). The toughest part of this is finding time to actually do the job hunting! I work in secondary Ed and I’m so wiped by the end of the day and we have all these big school events requiring extra evening/weekend hours that it’s been a real struggle to find time to work on applications. What strategies do you all have for job hunts when your FTE is so demanding?

      1. MissGirl*

        I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine job searching with that kind of demanding job. There’s ducking out for a quick interview or having a long lunch. One thing that’s helping me send out a ton of resumes is optimizing my cover letter.

        Most of the jobs I’m applying to are asking for a similar set of skills. I have about six or seven paragraphs highlighting separate sets of skills backed by experience. Then when I apply to a new job, I identify the three or so paragraphs that most align with the position’s needs. I custom write an intro paragraph highlighting what about the role drew me in.

        I also have a goal to have 20 resumes circulating at all times. If I get a rejection or two weeks has passed since I sent one, I have to send out another. You could make this goal something more reasonable for you.

    2. RagingADHD*

      I am noticing that I saw a lot more positions in my target salary range right before (like the two weeks before) I started sending my resume out, and they suddenly dried up. I want to get out of freelancing because I’m tired of the craziness, but I have to make a certain amount from a new job in order to afford it. Feeling a bit stuck.

    3. Not Today, Satan*

      Noticing a trend of “no responses.”

      Applied to ten jobs, got a Dear John from one, nothing from the other nine. So, not much ahs changed in the last few years…

    4. Retail Not Retail*

      I’ve had three interviews and two rejections in the last month. Waiting to hear back about the third!

      I’ve been throwing myself into volunteering at the local animal shelter, which isn’t related to anything, but it is pretty satisfying.

    5. Lucy P*

      I’ve now had 2 interviews. The first was supposed to make an offer, but didn’t (based on certain factors, I was glad).
      2nd interview was more about getting to know me to see if I would be interested in other positions within the company. My required salary was about 10k higher than they were willing to pay for the posted position. Other positions were suggested, but it was also made known that I’d still have to start at a lower rate due to lack of experience in those specific roles.

      Now I’m sending out resumes weekly. Not getting many responses, except the ones that reject me based on salary. Makes me wonder if there’s something outside of admin that I’m qualified to do and still pays at least what I’m making now

    6. Honor Harrington*

      I learned that the generic HR standard in the US is to fill 30% of jobs internally, and 70% of jobs externally. I also learned that our Recruiting team only sources candidates externally i.e. review external candidates and highlight them to the hiring manager for interviews. Since I’m looking internally, I learned I must reach out to the hiring manager myself. Yes, I need to apply via the system, but it’s the emails sent to the hiring managers which is getting me interviews. So, if you are working at a big company like I do, you may want to reach out to the hiring manager directly. I treat the email like a cover letter and attach my resume to it.

    7. MissGirl*

      I’ve sent out 33 resumes in the last three weeks for Senior Data Analyst roles. I accepted my company’s severance package so come November 1, I am unemployed. I’ve noticed when I do get a positive response to an application, it comes within 48 hours of applying. That really surprised me.

      I’m doing cover letters, which I haven’t always done. Hard to say if it’s helping or not. I know Allison doesn’t like “designed” resumes, but I get a ton of good feedback on mine from hiring managers and recruiters. I’m seeing more remote positions and posted salary ranges so that’s refreshing. Of course, some of the remote jobs give preference to local employees and ranges are between 50K and 150K so that’s less refreshing.

      I’m being super aggressive with applying right now because I’m worried the jobs will dry up by Thanksgiving and not start up until after the new year. I run out of severance on Feb 1.

    8. Temperance*

      Honestly, I got two rejections from my resume and an offer of a free subscription to a site for job seekers. It’s giving me 2008 vibes all over again.

    9. Me ... Just Me*

      Do you get the feeling that it’s no longer a job-seeker’s market? Six months ago, people were chomping at the bit to hire me and now I get no response to some of my applications.

      1. MissGirl*

        It’s so hard to say but that’s part of the reason I’m applying so aggressively. I’m worried it’s going to get harder. I’m getting about a 25% interview rate but I’ve never applied this much and this wide before.

        I also think things slow down at the end of the year too.

    10. Mimmy*

      I’ll preface my comment by saying that I am limited in choices by location and the fact that I can’t drive.

      Job hunting has been pretty rough for me. I recently graduated with a Master’s degree with the goal of leaving my current job and entering a field I’ve long been interested in. The interviews have been a good experience because I’m learning the kinds of behavioral questions that get asked and it’s making me think about how I approach my work and different situations.

      However, I express myself WAY better in writing than verbally, which then makes me self-conscious when answering questions on my feet, even with questions I expect. My resume and cover letter get me in the door but getting past the first round is the hard part.

      As noted above, I can’t drive, so I’m limited in my choices due to transportation access, so I have to really sell myself with the small number of jobs I do apply to. Also, COVID and economic conditions have kept relocation plans on the back burner. Hubby and I were originally going to move to wherever I find a job, but he wants to eventually move back to where he grew up. If I don’t find something here by next spring, then we’ll probably do that.

  35. Brownie*

    Problem Management – Career/profession or just a skill set to be used as secondary to a primary job?

    Recently I’ve been looking at pivoting from my current IT job to something that’s not under my current management (incompetent and still 2 years from retirement) but still within my company (really good) and IT Problem Management popped up as something that matches very well with my interests and skill sets. But in looking it up and talking to more experienced folks in IT it seems like it’s far less of a dedicated profession and more of a secondary skill set for supervisor or team lead positions. This is a brand new thing my company is looking at in regards to IT (it’s been active on the manufacturing side of the house for 40+ years) and I might be able to get in on the ground floor. Before I jump though, what do your companies do, do they have a dedicated Problem Management team or is it the manager’s job to do? What are your experiences with being in a Problem Management position? I keep hearing such mixed stories about dedicated Problem Management teams, everything from they’re integral to companies by fixing things before they cost the company money to they’re the first to be laid off because “they’re more worthless than auditors”. So what’s your experience?

    1. ferrina*

      Usually a secondary skill set. I also have Problem Management as a skills set. I’ve noticed a distinct pattern in my jobs:
      1. I join in a well-defined, standardized role.
      2. I quickly get a reputation for problem solving.
      3. I’m invited into more interesting projects
      4. My job is redesigned so I can devote a bunch of time to problem solving.

      A good project manager usually requires strong problem management skills (and that where I see a lot of people with problem management skills). For your case, I think you can easily go back and forth between problem management and project management.

  36. PleaseNo*

    What makes someone decide to leave a job? I’m not referring to obvious flags like a hostile work environment or dysfunction, but other stuff.
    I just got a new job with great benefits and great pay, and I’ve been at it for 4 months. But I had to move because it has a report-to-work requirement, and i bought a house as close as I could financially, which is still 40 min away, which is better than the 80+ minutes from my old home. And it turns out that time is only in the off-hours of traffic! My job has some flexibility in when I come into work, but I found out that it takes me just as long from the “closer” location as from my old home! And my old home hasn’t sold yet, so I’m tempted to move back because I’m not feeling my new house yet, and I miss several big things about my old place.
    Carrying 2 mortgages is taking up all my pay, so I’m burning through my little savings.
    I got a bonus for taking this job and I don’t have enough in savings to pay it back, so I’m stuck working.
    But after my required payback time, I’m wondering if this is the right job for me.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Nothing you describe is about the new job itself, what you like or don’t like about the day to day. Do you like the new job? Are you happy there, and see a career path? Maybe where you live is the bigger issue than the job itself. Could you move back into the old home, rent out the new home, and still work at this job (perhaps negotiating some regular remote work days?).
      My final thought it is natural to feel uneasy at so much life change at one time, so maybe you should also give yourself a little more time to adjust mentally and emotionally. Good luck!

      1. PleaseNo*

        lol, it’s so new I didn’t want to make assumptions. I like my coworkers (for the first time in 3 positions). I’m still learning policies and procedures and the environment so while I don’t like it, I also don’t dislike it yet.

        I have to be onsite, but I do get 1 day remote a week.

    2. WellRed*

      Sounds like you need to slow your roll a bit and give both the job and new house a bit of time rather than leaping and lurching. Is your old house Rentable? Or likely to sell very soon? I realize that depends on local markets.

      1. PleaseNo*

        It’s been listed for almost a month with no offers and it shows very well and is well-priced.
        I luckily already have a management company chosen and am engaging them to start the process next week.

        1. WellRed*

          Oh excellent! If you can stop the money drain it might help you focus on whether you do like the job and new house at all.

  37. Sotired*

    I need career advice. I got my Bachelors in Business Administration and Management about a year ago. I’m currently working in government doing social services and also have banking experience. What careers would be easy to transition to that I’m maybe not aware of? I would prefer no sales or interacting with the public.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      The whole world of back office/internal accounting/financial management: accounts payable, accounts receivable, financial projections, etc. You don’t need an accounting degree if you’re working a backoffice job for Teapots N’ Things.

      1. ferrina*

        Payroll as well- doesn’t require an accounting degree, and is often somewhere under the HR umbrella.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      You don’t say at what level you work in government, but usually once you are on the inside it is easier to move around – some jobs are only open to current employees. Look for openings in management, finance, procurement, contracting. You get the security of a government job with work in your field. And you may develop contracts in the private sector that may help you land the next job if you decide government isn’t for you. Good luck!

  38. Emily R*

    Can anyone who is data analytics or data science tell me how important degree vs self teaching is in bagging a job?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Really depends what level/field are you aiming to work in. Small start up tech companies – yeah they might waive a degree if your github is super impressive. Academia, larger companies – they’re unlikely to waive degree requirements, there’s too many candidates with the degree so HR isn’t going to be receptive to it. Make sure you do a cover letter if you don’t have a degree, gives you a chance to show writing skills.

      1. Emily R*

        Thank you. I have a masters degree in a adjacent but not technically related field. I took one data mining class in my masters, but I’ve done everything self taught since then. Wondering if I should just formally get the cheapest masters degree I can find or even do a handful of certificates or a boot camp course.

        1. DisneyChannelThis*

          If you have a masters degree in a related field you’re golden. Adjacent but not related you might have to sell it a bit in the interviews/cover letter. Data science you can get some leeway if the degree is relevant (ie applying to do data science for a biology lab, have a biology degree – the delay in your coding skills might be worth not having to teach you the biology side of the job, you bring biological understanding to the numbers that will guide your analysis). Also the higher level (masters, PhD) degrees tend to stand regardless of field, they show you can commit to a research idea and see it through more than a specific she knows XYZ skillset. If the masters degree is totally unrelated (English masters for instance) then you need to be prepared to really talk about what data projects you’ve done and how you’ve self taught since then.

          Before committing to a second masters I’d seriously apply to jobs and seeing what happens.

    2. Honor Harrington*

      Right now this job field is so hot that if you have the experience and can demonstrate it, they don’t care about degrees. But you need to be able to show on your resume your experience and clearly answer questions in the interview process.

  39. Smocksmocksmock*

    Hey, so, I have a new job and it is exempt and VERY all the flexibility goes one way as described here:

    https://www.askamanager.org/2021/03/is-being-salaried-a-scam.html

    I think it is a scam, and misclassified, honestly, but I know that’s common and does anyone really care about that? It’s government so I’d guess they are buttoned up on that front but a lot of what we do is specifically called out as not exempt under the investigators/inspectors/emergency response part… Not a perfect fit, it’s clearly focused on LE but I don’t see why it wouldn’t apply to us.

    Also, do people have any recommendations other than give them exactly what is required and no more? Which is fine but I’m getting a touch resentful already even so and it seems like that’s my only option plus look for another job, which I’m doing but is no guarantee and not optimal to be this disgruntled this quickly.

    Also in one of Alison’s articles she mentioned they are allowed to dock full days of pay… One thing I thought they were doing that might actually not be okay but I’m just wondering if anyone understands how that works better than me. They were going to dock pay because my coworker was out of PTO and got sick. I thought they couldn’t do this but Alison wrote they can do full days if they offer “sick time off” and the person is out – we have PTO but it’s just one bucket, no specific sick time. They allow very very rare pre-approved WFH but don’t allow you to WFH if you call in sick, because if you call in sick you must be too ill to move, I suppose. But let’s say he did some minor wfh – he called into a meeting or he checked his email, or whatever, can they still not pay for that day?

    Also, what is people’s experience or understanding of on call as it relates to exempt/non exempt, what have you seen in terms of compensation and what do you think is reasonable?

    1. ferrina*

      I worked for a boss that liked to say “You’re salaried, so you work until the job is done” then gave me responsibilities for 3.5 people (literally- the department was supposed to have 3.5 people, and she refused to fill the roles and wanted me to do everything).

      There’s not much you can do. I recommend starting your job search now- you want to get out now before it sucks your soul away.
      In the meantime, quietly say no to what you can. “Sorry, I won’t be able to do that.” or “I can’t take this on unless I don’t do Project X” (it helps to be specific about what will be dropped) One of my favorite lines was “Yes, I can do this. I can start in 2 months”- knowing full well they expected me to start it that day and deliver in a month. I pointed out that with my current workload, I would need to drop 2 other projects in order to meet that deadline.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’m not a lawyer or anything, but my understanding is that exempt employees must be paid for the full week of work. Leave without pay can be voluntary, but can not be as a result of illness. However, I also know the rules for state employees are different. Either way, you sound really bitter and unhappy. Maybe looking for another job would be a good idea.

      1. Me ... Just Me*

        You don’t have to be paid for the full week of work if you’re exempt. They do, however, have an obligation to pay you for a full day if you work any portion of it. What this means is, though, that if you call in sick and then try to attend a meeting so that you get paid for the day, they’ll definitely be talking to you about that because it’s kind of dishonest. If you don’t have leave accrued (per whatever way it’s accrued at your job) then they can short your check for what you haven’t worked.

        You do seem unhappy, so you may want to move on, regardless.

  40. Jessen*

    I asked this a while back at one point but it was pretty late in the thread: how do you deal with burnout when you literally can’t take time off?

    I’m at the point where I’d definitely falling behind at work because I’m too burnt out to think straight. The problem is because of chronic medical issues, I have to spend literally of my sick time and my vacation time just on being sick, managing 2 dozen medical appointments, and so forth. Even stuff like FMLA doesn’t help because you’re still required to use all your paid time off first before you can take unpaid time. So there’s no chance for me to just take time away and destress.

    But I’m not sure what to do with this when I’m legit not getting any time to deal with what I need to. I’m afraid to say anything because I don’t want to be seen as unreliable or not able to do my job. But I’m also at the point where something’s got to give.

    1. Anecdata*

      So if you can financially afford to take unpaid time off, can you take it as FMLA and build in “relaxing and recovery” time. Ie. instead of coming off FMLA the very first day you can stand up, add a couple extra days that a) help you recover more health wise and b) have some not-strictly-medical relax items built in – sit outside, walks, etc; like a mini staycation. On a smaller scale, things like, when you have a half day appointment, take the whole day off.

      1. Jessen*

        Maybe? Part of the problem is I’m honestly not sure about how FMLA even works for stuff like mine. We’re not real clear on what exactly is going on, and I generally don’t have days where I absolutely can’t work. It’s more like that I tire out super easily and trying to work five days a week and stay focused on work for as long as the job requires me to stay focused just isn’t going well.

        1. Anecdata*

          I would definitely consider talking to your boss/hr about taking intermittent FMLA – maybe a couple days around your more draining appointments (I’ve been helping a family member with this recently so I’m a big advocate for it :)

          FMLA protects your job for up to 12 weeks/year — the intermittent part just means you don’t have to take it all in one chunks; and at a lot of large companies you can set it up as basically “pre-documented” with HR so you don’t have to start the process from scratch every time (for situations like, “when my X-syndrome flares up, I take a week of FMLA-protected leave, which is usually 5-10 times a year”)

          FMLA covers “serious health conditions” – you don’t have to be eg. disabled to the point that you can’t work at all. What you are describing sure sounds like it counts to me (and good HR depts don’t nitpick what “serious” is)

    2. ferrina*

      How is your boss? If they are reasonable, talk to them. They may be able to shift your workload or responsibilities (I’ve done that for team members a couple times).

      I’d also reach out to online communities that of folks that have your condition(s)- they may have more specific advice. The Mighty, Inspire or Patients Like Me might have a community for your condition.

      I’m sorry you’re going through this!

      1. kiki*

        I was going to say this. If you have a good boss, they’ll appreciate the heads-up that you’re at a breaking point and at risk for falling more behind rather than hearing about it after a lot of balls have been dropped. I think that’s something about management that’s been a little lost– it’s not about ensuring your direct reports are at 100% capacity, it’s about prioritizing, delegating, and organizing things around the capacity folks actually have.

    3. TiredSickAndYoung*

      As someone else who has a chronic illness and familiar with the problems of burning out because all you can do is deal with health stuff and go to work, I would recommend disengaging from work as much as possible and lowering your standards for what’s “bad enough” to call out sick for. I recognize that disengaging from work feels terrifying, since you need the job to pay for the medical stuff; what I’ve done is to pick things to step back from and see how much pushback you get, picking it back up if there’s pushback, and just slowly refine what my job actually entails, giving myself some more room when I am out more with the health stuff.
      Something else to consider: when I was at a similar point last year, I asked to spend a few months at 3/4 time so I could spend time to stabilize my health. It wasn’t a vacation, but it gave me some breathing room.

      1. Jessen*

        It’s definitely the sort of job where most tasks are all or nothing; either a task is done or it’s not done and turnaround times are expected to be short. So it would be pretty obvious if I started to disengage.

      1. Jessen*

        I have yet to see a therapist (in 10+ years of treatment) who could do anything more than hand me the advice off of the first page of google and then get frustrated when it didn’t work. I honestly feel like that’s part of why I’m so burnt out – I’m still trying to recover from all the years of guilt and shame heaped on me from being sent to therapy instead of having health problems recognized and acknowledged. I got a lot of times of being told I obviously wasn’t trying or didn’t want to get better because I failed to do things that would be easy for most people. Unfortunately I’ve found that there’s still such incredible widespread denial that therapy can be traumatic, combined with rampant base ableism, that it would be a miracle to find a therapist who didn’t actively make things worse at this point, let alone could actually help.

        1. Hydrangea*

          Therapy can be awful, seriously. I went to someone whose basic message was, you wouldn’t have all these interpersonal problems if you weren’t such an awful person. What I do is look for TED talks or books bc I can shut them off or close them if they are not helpful. My thing these days is emotional intelligence, and I just noped right out of a book that made some absolutely incorrect claims. The ability to nope out without an argument is actually sort of therapeutic in and of itself.

        2. CatCat*

          I’m sorry to hear you’ve had these terrible experiences with therapy. My therapist is an expert in burnout so I have been fortunate in that regard.

    5. Not in your timezone*

      I was really burnt out by the end of 2020 but feeling much better now. I started with genuine self care, which took a lot of work and energy at first. The things I found helpful:
      Stopped using my phone/email after hours and deleted social media.
      Guaranteed myself 8 hours in bed with the lights out each night.
      Started doing very light exercise (walking or cycling).
      Got a house cleaner to come weekly.
      Ordered a meal kit weekly.
      Dropped the rope with some family care issues.

      I know this sounds like life admin but they made the world of difference to my ability to cope with work. I just desperately needed some down time and these things gave me that. I hope you find a solution that works for you too. (I know this won’t take away your pain, this stuff just helps with getting by).

  41. Chirpy*

    How do I deal with a department head who says things passive-aggressively, then walks away before I can respond? The manager says I should just stand up for myself better, but my department head just snaps things at me as she’s walking past, and I’d have to chase her down, and when I do get to respond she just brushes off my response.

    Manager has no problem with my work. My department head tells me things that the new person has done wrong and I “need to work on with them” when I didn’t see the problem happen to be able to say anything, or things I should do that are so basic as to be kind of insulting, or vague passive aggressive statements about things that do need to get done while I’m doing something else, or just generally criticizing how I’m doing things-even if I’m doing what she’s told me to do (if I do things one way, it’s wrong, but if I do it the other way that she tells me, that’s also wrong and I should be doing it the original way). I think she just thinks I should magically do the work of 4 people, but when I point this out she says she has to work alone sometimes, too. I just don’t know how to deal with this.

    1. ferrina*

      Wow. Department Head sounds like a jerk.

      Unfortunately, there’s no way to solve this. Jerks are going to be jerks. Best you can do is say “I’ll look into it!” and then send a perfunctory email to your manager (with the goal of CYA to show that you’re handling it correctly).

      I’d be worried about long-term career implications if Department Head has any sort of impact on your professional opportunities. Once a higher up takes an irrational dislike to you, it can really impact the opportunities you get.

      1. Chirpy*

        Unfortunately, I’ve had that happen before, a coworker convinced the board they didn’t need my position…they then had to beg me to come back the next week because I was the only one who knew how to do something (which I had spent years telling them someone else should learn as a backup, as my job was essential to the organization’s mission). It absolutely destroyed my career.

    2. KoiFeeder*

      For what it’s worth, your department head sounds like a loon and this reflects on her far more than it reflects on you.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      Given that, you have to decide how to respond. There’s a few options.

      One is the “I’ll look into that” option suggested by ferrina followed by a CYA email to your manager.

      Another is to say, “You should discuss that with Manager” followed by a CYA email to your manager.

      And then happily continue what you’re doing.

      Let her walk away, because she walked away. So, clearly, she doesn’t have more to say. Just let it go.

      If you need to CYA, write an email to your manager with updates about what you are doing and if needed, even write the department head, ccing your manager, something like, “I didn’t understand what you meant by X, but I am happy to help with Y as needed. Just talk to Manager.” The trick here is to repeat whatever weird request she gave you and force her to say what she actually wants. If she never replies, great! Problem solved. Move on.

      Again, your Department head sucks and isn’t going to change. So, you have to work around it. I wish I had better advice then that.

      1. Chirpy*

        I’ve generally been doing that (aside from emails, we don’t have them as the company decided a “more social media like” software was “better”, so if I message her it would probably be seen company-wide at all locations and there’s no way that doesn’t look bad for me). If I try to get her to clarify, she just brushes things off or doubles down what she just said (and will reverse later.) It feels like she’s trying to make me look inefficient (we’re both in the top 3-5 employees on several visible tasks).

    4. L. Ron Jeremy*

      Yell at her as she’s walking away, “send me a request and I’ll see when I can get to it”.

  42. Alice*

    People on my team want to start doing a monthly team lunch, indoors.
    I don’t do indoor dining because I share indoor air unmasked only with people in my household, friends and relatives who have tested negative that day, and people at the dentist’s office.
    They won’t push me to join them, so I’m glad about that. But I still feel like I need to “make up” for “being standoffish” somehow, to cultivate positive interpersonal relationships.
    Am I overthinking things and seeing obligations where none exist?

    1. ferrina*

      How’s your relationship with them generally? If you’re friendly in other ways and they respect your safety protocols, I wouldn’t worry about it. But I would try to make up for some of the face time in other ways- maybe grabbing coffee with folks on other occassions? (either virtual, or walk to a nearby coffee shop together)

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        This context matters. They’re bonding – if you miss out on that, yeah there could be consequences to that. It depends on the starting point. But there are ways to make it up.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yeah, this is what matters. If you have a positive relationship in general, this will likely not matter.

    2. ecnaseener*

      Would you be comfortable sitting and chatting with them, keeping your mask on? That’s what I’ve done when I couldn’t risk exposure. You’d have to find time to eat, I realize.

  43. Art Sent Me*

    I’m new to IT and just landed my first job sooner than expected.
    I was prepared for potential sexism/harassment/othering but wasn’t expecting the drinking culture to be so heavy duty. I’m at a place that’s just out of startup. It’s tolerable but annoying and sometimes triggering. I expect the big companies and conferences will be worse. How do the other non drinkers cope?

    1. Eether, Either*

      Are you in AA or another support group? If yes, ask for help! If not, and you feel comfortable going to bars or events with your co-workers, order a non-alcoholic drink. If someone comments, just say I don’t drink. That’s all you need to say. If you don’t feel comfortable around alcohol, limit your time wherever folks are drinking, at conferences, etc., if your presence is required/expected. Stay for a short time and set a “leave” time for yourself and stick to it. It’s none of their business why you don’t drink–there are many reasons these days, but that’s what I do. I’ve been sober for 40 years and rarely does anyone ask me why I’m not drinking.

    2. JustaTech*

      So this advice only applies to people who just prefer not to drink, rathe than for people who have a history of issues with drinking (I don’t know enough to be helpful there).

      My husband is in tech and for whatever reason his specific branch at his company is full of heavy drinkers. Like, they have a standing weekly wrap up meeting Friday afternoons called “Whiskey and Whine”. But his experience has been that while most of the people like to drink, they never give him a hard time for not drinking, or only having one beer when they go out. This has also been my experience when I’ve gone out with them socially “Hey, JustaTech, can I get you a drink?” “No, I’m good now, thanks.” “Cool.”

      So if you can make it clear from the start that you’re not interested, most people (should!) let it alone, especially if you’re still able to join them socializing. It’ll just be a thing about you, like “Oh, Art doesn’t drink, but they play a mean foosball” or whatever.

      As for company size, it’s my impression that as companies get bigger the heavy-drinking culture tends to die off, partly because bigger companies have a greater diversity of workforce (more of whom might not want to drink, or at least drink like college), and then eventually you get HR and Legal who point out the risks to the company of everyone getting sloshed on Thursday morning (so much liability, and also not working). Larger companies also offer more people to be around, so it might be easier to find other non-drinkers.

      Good luck and take care of yourself!

      1. Angstrom*

        Agree. As long as you don’t appear to be judgmental or disapproving, most adults will accept a matter-of-fact “no thanks” or “ not today”. On the practical side, having a non-alcoholic drink that looks similar to what other folks are having will avoid unwanted attention to your non-drinking.

  44. NewCommenter*

    People who wear a hijab/headscarf, do you leave it off for a (remote) meeting that you know will be all women? Recently gone back to work after grad school and its a fully remote position so all my meetings are online. I wear a hijab normally and I’ve considered not wearing it for meetings where I know it’ll just be ladies (like one -to-ones with my female manager) but somehow it seems unprofessional to wear it some of the time and not always so wondering what others do.

    1. Generic+Name*

      Interesting question. As someone who does not come from a head-covering culture, I might be confused if I saw a coworker without her head covering in some meetings but not others. I might not connect that you don’t wear them in meetings with all women. I wouldn’t read it as unprofessional, though. If you wanted, you could simply explain that you’re uncovered because it’s all women and the covering is only in front of men (or unrelated men?). I think you could do what feels most comfortable to you. Hopefully others with experience will chime in as well.

      1. Women in workplace*

        Same here. I’m a woman not from a head-covering culture. I’d be confused if I see OP without hijab in a meeting.

        I’d be wary about male co-workers get invited to the meeting in the very last minute though.

    2. Hydrangea*

      My answer depends on the culture/country where you work.

      In the US, I would say always wear hijab bc the gender of your coworkers cannot matter in how you behave toward them. This is similar to shaking hands when you are part of a religion that only allows touch between same genders. If you can’t shake hands with an entire class of people, then you should not shake hands with any people. If you can’t remove hijab with an entire class of people, you should not remove remove hijab with any people.

      In general, if your workplace is in a culture/country where wearing hijab is uncommon, you will probably just sow confusion about why you sometimes have it on and sometimes not, and it might come across as an arbitrary choice. So I advise just wearing it all the time to avoid that confusion.

      I’m the wrong person to have an opinion on how this would come across if your workplace is in a country/culture where hijab is common.

      The thing to think about regardless, though, is what happens if a man walks past where he can see the screen.

      1. Raw Flour*

        Oh yeah, +1 to your last point. I share a medium-sized home office with my husband, where we face opposite directions and have autonomous mic/headphone systems. He’s not privy to anything that my manager or employee speaks to me about; that’s all easily kept in confidence. However, there’s a non-zero chance that he turns around for a second and glimpses the person onscreen.

        1. Cormorannt*

          I have the same setup with my husband, and I often see his coworkers on screen when we are both working from home. It’s usually briefly in passing, but I do see them. There’s no way to control who might be sharing a space with your coworkers.

      2. fueled by coffee*

        Eh, I don’t know that wearing/not wearing a hijab is the same as hand-shaking; one is a behavior that involves other people, the other is a personal clothing choice that doesn’t really have anything to do with business norms, restricting opportunities to others, etiquette, etc. If I pull on a sweater every time I walk into a meeting with coworkers of a particular gender, this might be perceived as odd but you’d be hard-pressed to argue that this was somehow discriminatory, unless it’s affecting the meeting in some other way. This isn’t like Mike Pence refusing to meet alone with women on principle or having “old boys’ club” golf outings with the CEO.

        I come from a different head-covering culture (Judaism), but it would not strike me as unusual at all for a Muslim coworker to remove a hijab in one-on-one meetings with me but to wear it at other times. The points here about other housemates/colleagues/etc. potentially seeing you onscreen still stand, though!

        1. Hydrangea*

          Not shaking hands doesn’t exclude people from opportunities, either. Shaking hands and wearing hijab to a meeting both require you to first assess the gender of the person you are interacting with *in a way that is meaningless to the interaction.* That doesn’t belong in a workplace.

          1. Temperance*

            Arguably, it can absolutely do that. The hijab is a personal choice. Shaking hands with only men isn’t.

      3. Posie*

        I agree with Hydrangea. It feels icky (?) somehow that you’d cover up only when men are in the meeting. I think there’s an inherent implication that you’re somehow less safe with them than with women. And in all honesty, you don’t know that someone is a man just because they’re male-presenting, and vice versa. I agree with wearing it in front of everyone, or no one.

        1. Hydrangea*

          Modesty is tied up in safety, but it’s not directly about safety. That’s a good point about presentation, though. You don’t know whether someone is a woman just bc they are female presenting. Very good point.

          Really, it’s best to proceed at work in a way that doesn’t require you to evaluate the gender of your co-workers unless the subject at hand is actually gender relevant.

          1. Minimal Pear*

            Yes, I’m nonbinary and present as very feminine but my Actual Gender isn’t at all in line with that. I always worry that something like this is going to come up! (I am very good at worrying about made-up scenarios.)

      4. Reba*

        I get your point, but I agree with Fueled by coffee that it’s overstating the case — wearing a hijab or not is not something you are doing to or even with coworkers!

        I’m not a hijabi, but work with quite a few. People handle it in different ways, it’s up to the individual! One colleague wears it for public appearances, but only rarely in small group meetings (regardless of the gender makeup of the group). Others wear it in the office but often not when they are joining a call from home. It’s not inherently professional or unprofessional either way.

        I don’t think NewCommenter should worry about people being “confused” or needing to preemptively share her hijab strategy. Perhaps some people will be curious or even rude about it, but what can you do.

      5. Laika*

        > sow confusion about why you sometimes have it on and sometimes not, and it might come across as an arbitrary choice

        I don’t see how any of this is her problem. If my coworker chooses to wear a collared shirt one day and a sweater the next, they aren’t “sowing confusion” lol

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      I worked with a woman who wore a hijab. I’ve seen her with it off in the restroom a couple times (fixing hair or the scarf itself). The first time I apologized thinking I walked in on something I shouldn’t, she laughed and said all was well just has to have it on in front of men. I’m not sure what she does now, in large mixed group zooms she always wore it.

      A male coworker in current job has similar cover the head in front of opposite sex requirements, I know he does leave it off in all male meetings.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Now I can’t stop thinking about the “bad hair day under a hijab” episode of Little Mosque on the Prairie.

    4. Raw Flour*

      How recently have you joined this company/team? I ask because IMO, 1:1s with a trusted colleague are pretty much the only scenario where you can safely assume that only women (well, one woman) will be in attendance. Some folks have an unfortunate habit of forwarding meeting invitations without the meeting organizer’s agreement.

      That aside, would I feel it was unprofessional if my employee wore a hijab at work/on Zoom but did not wear the hijab during 1:1s with me? No, I would not feel it was unprofessional.

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      I don’t wear a hijab, but I had a coworker who did. She only wore it when she was in meeting with men. I was honored when she stopped wearing it during our one on one zoom calls, I figured it meant she trusted me. Personally, I’m a firm believer in doing what makes you most comfortable. However, I can imagine that the “men vs women” rules might get complicated if people feel like you’re discriminating against one gender.

      There’s probably more to this that has to do with your personal feelings about your faith. For those issues in Judaism, the usual answer to this sort of quandary is – Talk to a Rabbi. So, maybe talk to an Imam about the best way to proceed? It wouldn’t impact how professional I thought you were, but I’m just one pretty laid back person about these things.

      1. JustaTech*

        In college one of my roommates wore a hijab and when it was just us gals (4 women in a suite) she would take it off sometimes, like if we were all sitting around in our pajamas. I will admit the first time I saw her without it I did not recognize her at all (we’d only met that morning).

        So maybe in my mind (because of that specific experience) I would think that it was a little casual to not wear it if you normally would, but not to the point of “unprofessional”.

        (That roommate gave me one of her scarfs as a “end of year” gift and it is just the best thing to wear in the depths of winter to keep my ears warm!)

    6. Irish Teacher*

      As a woman who is not from a culture where wearing headscarves is the norm, I don’t think I’d take much notice of a woman wearing one sometimes and not others. I might wonder if there was a reason, if I even noticed, but unless we had the sort of relationship where it would be normal to ask about something like that, it would just be an “oh, I wonder if there are rules about when she wears the headscarf.”

    7. Dark Macadamia*

      I’m surprised people say they’d find it confusing because I probably would not even notice lol (American, not religious, white). I wouldn’t question it any more than people being inconsistent about wearing masks, or wearing a shirt one day and a dress the other. If I even realized it was different I’d just assume you have your reasons and it doesn’t affect me

    8. Wordybird*

      My coworker does not wear anything on her head during her women-only department meetings. She wears a hooded sweatshirt with the hood up during all-hands co-ed meetings. I’ve only seen her in a hijab in a photo that she shared with us of her attending a friend’s wedding.

    9. NewReplier*

      Caveat: I’m in the US, not Muslim and have not lived in majority-Muslim communities. This response is more about whatever “confusion” you’re non-Muslim coworkers may feel.

      I know that certain contexts can add Complicated meanings to wearing a hijab, but my understanding is that one of the big things it is is an expression of faith. There are no professionalism dress codes you’re breaking by wearing it in some settings and not others, and if a couple people are confused about it, it’s still not their business why you wear what you do. You’re not treating anyone differently or as lesser by wearing it in some situations but not others.

      I’d add a +1 to the points others raised about whether it’s a concern to you that someone walking by your coworkers’ screens may be a guy, what it would mean to be meeting with non-binary coworkers, or that a man may be unexpectedly included in a meeting you thought would be women only.

  45. beep beep*

    The next couple weeks on my team are looking to be incredible crunch time- for most except me. We recently (July) spun up a new process that is much more time/effort/resource intensive to review our llama grooming teams to make sure they’re adhering to best practices, and November is when the show llama competition is going to be, so everyone wants to get their llamas in before then. However, with the hundreds of llamas to review that take hours each, it may literally not be feasible- not enough hours in the day- for the members on my team who agreed to take on review responsibilities to get them all done by the necessary date. I have some expertise in one aspect of grooming, but not at all in the other.

    Is it unethical to worry that if I put my hand up to pitch in on that aspect of reviews, I’ll be asked to keep doing them (this crunch before a competition will come four times a year)? I recently got a major raise, so I don’t know if that’s in the cards if I step up, and I worry that I’ll be absorbing a lot of worry, but my team are struggling, that’s incredibly clear.

    Any advice is much appreciated. Thank you!

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      So is the question — Is it unethical to be worried if you volunteer to do a portion of a task because it might mean that you’ll have to do it until the end of time?

      I guess I’d say, if this review process is part of the scope of your department and you plan to be in this department, yeah, odds are that you’ll be pulled into the quarterly task every time. And either you’ll do the part that you know so other teammates can pick up from there, or you’ll be trained to do other pieces until you’re as much of a reviewer as they need.

      If you’re worried because you want to set boundaries to never have to do it after being helpful once, well, yeah, that might come off as strange, unless your particular expertise has its own timeline and crunch times that make your availability to contribute every quarter less certain — which your team will then have to deal with.

      Either way, I think a conversation with your boss about how they would like to handle your ability to assist with this process is important. That way you can understand how things are expected to go in the future.

    2. RagingADHD*

      This is not a question of ethics. It is simply realistic to assume that if you volunteer to do these reviews, it will become part of your job. Getting rid of a task that you volunteered for once is nearly impossible, due to institutional inertia.

      Pitching in when your team is in a crunch, including these reviews, is either part of the scope of your role and your company’s culture of teamwork, or it is not. If your role or your culture oblige you to step up, then keeping your good standing at your job and good relations with your team demands that you volunteer. You’ll just have to worry about the long-term situation later.

      If it’s clear that volunteering for this would interfere with doing the rest of your job properly, it’s best to avoid it. And if it isn’t clear but not volunteering won’t have consequences for you, then don’t.

    3. Employed Minion*

      If you don’t want to get stuck doing these reviews, maybe an alternative would be to volunteer taking on other common tasks of your coworkers to relieve their work loads during this time. Then, after the crunch, you give the tasks ‘back’. This only works if there is overlap of course

  46. Anecdata*

    As a follow up to the “quiet quitting” discussion —

    Does anyone have advice/stories for what /has/ worked for you, in terms of going above and beyond but actually getting rewarded for it?

    I’m in a place in my life + career where I am trying to figure out how to “lean in” and I’d love to hear about what folks have done to make that “effective” — and do you think the strategies have changed, post covid?

    1. Justin*

      Literally this past week, we’re all at a work conference here in NYC, but given I live here and most of my coworkers don’t (so I see them like, twice a year), I put together a happy hour when the event had a more exclusive event for C suite folks. The CFO was excited that I did so (and that I also was the one who made some trivia questions when we saw each other in July), and though it’s all TBD, it seems like it’s “getting me in” with those with the most power in the org (a nonprofit financial institution).

      And it wasn’t like I really sacrificed anything. So to me, it makes sense to do “extra” when it fits within my skillset and interests.

    2. LittleBeans*

      Well, my definition of “above and beyond” has changed. When I was new to the work world, I worked tons of unpaid hours, staying late and coming in on weekends. I don’t do that anymore – I mostly work my hours – but I am flexible about my schedule and available off hours when needed, I volunteer for projects that I’m interested in, I proactively seek ways to improve my work or our processes, I try to make my boss’s job easier in small ways when I can. And yes, I definitely believe I am rewarded for all of that! I’ve been promoted regularly throughout my career, and have a really strong reputation in my field if/when I want to move on.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      All of the conference planning committees I have been on have led to both a better understanding of how to get my papers accepted to national conferences, but also looked darn shiny on a resume. So, there’s that? I think you have to chose to do extra things that help get your name out there AND give you some helpful benefit.

    4. Anon for This*

      Do work “above and beyond” when it will show results, add up to an accomplishment that will be yours. Volunteer to lead the new project, to assist the boss in planning the conference.

      Do not go above and beyond to fix work that Fergus should have done right in the first place, and will take credit for. Do not go above and beyond on non-work projects – like don’t volunteer to clean out the fridge, or bake/buy the birthday cakes.

    5. AcademiaNut*

      With a lot of the stuff discussed in quiet quitting, the nuance that’s missing is that with good employers, stepping up and taking on higher level work or going above and beyond when something comes up are rewarded. It might be financially, via raises or bonuses, or it might lead to promotions or professional development opportunities, or you might get more interesting job tasks and more flexibility and autonomy. Even if there isn’t a ton of growth opportunity at the same employer, you can get stuff that goes on your resume that helps you to get a higher level next job. It’s reasonably common for employees to not realize that simply working *more* doesn’t necessarily make you a good candidate for promotion, because someone can be extremely hard working and a poor fit for a higher level job.

      If you’re working yourself to exhaustion because your workplace is understaffed or chaotic, or you are doing stuff that isn’t going to be rewarded, or you’re being asked to step into higher level tasks indefinitely without a raise or official promotion, or you’re doing stuff that makes other people look more competent but isn’t recognized for you, then stepping back is good.

      Things that bring you to the attention of people higher up in the hierarchy, or show that you can handle higher level work or leadership (and are limited in duration, reasonable in work load and recognized), or that make your resume look better for future jobs are better bets, *if* your employer is the type to reward people that do such things.

    6. k8orado*

      Without getting into details that would be identifying, I ended up in charge of a very high-profile crisis response at my organization last year (crisis as in the possibility of significant risk to many people’s lives if it was not quickly addressed). I was technically several steps down in the organization from many of the people I was leading, so it meant tons of face time with senior leadership up to the CEO level. It was basically soul-crushing at the time (15+ hour days, worked all weekend every weekend for several months, tons of middle of the night issues), but incredibly meaningful personally and professionally and I was directly told by the CEO that it was a major reason I just got a big promotion.

      Definitely agree with the advice above to lean hard into things that are likely to be seen and rewarded. I’ve been the person behind the scenes making everything work in various jobs for years, it’s when I had the chance to make things happen in very visible ways that I think perceptions changed and I was viewed as ready for a true leadership role.

  47. Pocket Mouse*

    What does “a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part” look like in practice? I’m particularly thinking of situations where there is ongoing collaboration, so the success of the project reflects on everyone involved, including those who are a victim of others’ lack of planning.

    For instance, Team Member A requests Team Member B document XYZ as they prepare the TPS report in order for Team Member A to do the final polish and get the finished report out on time, but despite assurances of progress at update meetings, Team Member B does not do this and now the team has to spend precious time getting clarity on XYZ before Team Member A can start polishing, causing the polishing to be rushed or completed in overtime. As Team Member A, I would like those in charge of the report to acknowledge that due to Team Member B’s approach, additional time is needed for a reasonable turnaround, but that doesn’t seem to be an available option.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      That’s not really the kind of situation that phrase is meant to be applied to, because that’s not a lack of planning that’s a lack of oversight and poor performance.

      This is more of an “in the debrief we need to discuss how this doesn’t happen again” scenario.

      1. JustaTech*

        Exactly. “a lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part” is when someone knew about a big project coming up but completely failed to request that their supplies be ordered, and so is demanding that the ordering person pull all kinds of strings to get stuff overnighted.

        Person A clearly communicated their needs in a timely manner to Person B, which is 100% the opposite of a lack of planning.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      This is a failure of management, and probably of communications.

      Did the boss of both A & B know about, create, or approve this arrangement? If so, then it’s the bosses job to intervene if B is jeopardizing the timeline. If not, then it’s As fault for not telling the boss – and then boss & A should have decided what to do if B didn’t meet the internal deadline.

      The aphorism you are referring to is from the perspective of the put-upon employee. If C needs work from D, but doesn’t inform D in time, or ask about D’s workload, or have the task clearly defined, then D can use that as a retort to C when C asks D to work over the weekend.

    3. RagingADHD*

      That phrase really only works when there is a clear delineation of roles and accountability. For example, the Accounts Payable department might have a system that payments go out every Friday and only on Friday, and everything must be submitted no later than 3pm Thursday, unless it is signed off by a VP or higher. Polly Procrastinator comes rushing up at 4:30 on Thursday insisting that her vendor has to get paid this week, and the VP of her department is on vacation.

      It’s Polly’s emergency, not AP’s. Similar to “not my circus, not my monkeys.”

      In a situation like you describe, it is your circus and they may not be your monkeys, but if the monkeys don’t show up you have no circus.

    4. Diatryma*

      I work in a medical testing facility. There’s a policy that people getting procedures done have a covid test. If the patient doesn’t get the covid test, we got calls from irritated Important Medical Persons… so we have a script. It boils down to, and this may identify me somewhat, “I’m sorry, we generally have test results within X time. Please do what is best for your patient and wear the proper protective equipment.” Because we’re not going to rush a test or something (I mean, we can’t, the test takes as long as it takes) just so the operating room staff can be more comfortable. We have procedures in place for this.

      It really, really helps that the staff giving this script have absolute backup from the Very Important Medical Persons who run the place.

  48. LittleBeans*

    I currently work a hybrid schedule but occasionally, am asked to come into the office for a one-off event. When I do, it’s hard not to make my commute part of my workday. For example, I’m supposed to be in the office from 2-3pm today so realistically, I will spend 1-2pm getting there, and 3-4pm fighting traffic to get home. The result is that a 1-hour event ends up taking up 3 hours of my day and it’s going to impact the other work I need to do today. Is this just an impact of our new work world? Or should I really be trying to change my schedule so that the commute isn’t impacting my work hours somehow?

    1. Justin*

      I mean, it’s part of my world. I just make sure I check my email early (that’s technically working!) and late to even out the trip (though for me my trip is only 25 min)

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Talk to your manager to develop an understanding about swapping your regular days in office. So if your normal days in office are Mon/Weds/Fri, but on Monday morning you’re asked to come in for a meeting on Tuesday, you’d say to your manager, Since I have to come in on Tuesday anyway, I’ll make that my second in person day, stay in office for 8 hours, and then work from home on Wednesday.
      If you don’t have a complex web of childcare arrangements hinging on solid days in office/remote, this could be a flexible solution.

      1. LittleBeans*

        I can’t change my schedule easily, I usually have other in-person meetings booked on my other days already. And to be honest, everyone on my team works from home on Fridays so I don’t want to go in for the whole day because I’d literally just be sitting in an empty office by myself except for that 1 hour.

    3. Qwerty*

      Commutes aren’t normally included in work hours, especially if yours is eating up a quarter of the work day.

      Is your hybrid schedule set in stone where your desk isn’t available on your home days? Usually people will come into the office for a full or half day if they have a on-site meeting, but that assumes your office has space to accomodate you. If it doesn’t, talk to your manager about how to handle the situation – she is probably assuming that you are flexing your hours if you are commuting during the business day, so its better to be upfront about that than wait for her to realize that isn’t the case.

    4. New Mom*

      I don’t really have advice but I can relate, I live in a highly congested traffic area and unless it I’m driving between 10:30-2:30, my 20 minute commute turns into an hour, or an hour and twenty if it’s my day to do drop-off or pick-up for daycare. It’s sooo frustrating that my office is now mandating 85% in-person for the *full* workday. It’s going to add two hours to my day and I feel pretty unhappy about it.

      1. LittleBeans*

        I think I phrased this like a question since this is an advice column but really, it was probably more of a vent. Like, I think the leadership doesn’t realize how inconvenient it is for me to come in to work for just 1 hour, and I don’t really want to have to do it. Also, New Mom, I also have a toddler who was born during Covid, so I’m now adjusting to a hybrid schedule and accounting for daycare pick-ups and drop-offs, which I never had to deal with before when I was working in-person full-time. So that’s another reason why it isn’t easy for me to just start work earlier or stay later.

        1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

          Venting is fine if that’s the context. Since we’re supposed to be posting questions, then what I would advise in this situation is thus — for truly one-off things that won’t be recurring, it probably makes sense to simply treat the whole day as in-office. Just plan to come in — or say to the organizer “Friday is my WFH day, could we do Tuesday instead or can I attend via video?”

          But if there’s a pattern of in-office events that may come up when you’re not expecting them, you probably need to sort out a few contingency plans and then have a chat with your boss about how they’d like you to handle these scenarios — e.g., are they invested enough in you coming in on a Friday to let you commute after daycare drop off?

    5. Overeducated*

      Unfortunately, I generally just have to block off the travel time on my calendar if it’s during the work day, but then “make up” that time by working late from home another day since commuting isn’t work. I really do hate it, as my commute is an hour outside rush times, but can be two when traffic is bad (or recently, 2.5 when there were two accidents en route). I’m seriously considering applying for remote work or asking if I could get a desk at a local site (even though the work I do is different than the local site’s), but we’re still adjusting to “back to the office” so I am trying to give it a try first.

  49. Academic Librarian*

    I am an academic librarian with a unique skill set, strong public professional presence, and golden handcuffs that have me spinning my wheels about my future. I have started to receive some exciting and interesting consulting offers related to my primary research area. However, in order to take all of the potential consulting offers on the horizon I’d likely need to negotiate my current 40 hour/5 days a week schedule down to 4 days a week. My institution allows us to take on outside consulting work in a limited capacity, pending administrative approval. Complicated by this is that my unit is chronically understaffed, and we are in the midst of a lot of leadership turnover in the reporting lines above me.

    Any advice on how I might negotiate a reduced workload in order to take on consulting work?

    Other leverage details if it matters: I am not geographically mobile for family reasons, but if I were, I would likely be a top candidate at many major institutions (I get recruiting emails from institutions much more prestigious than my current university). I have occasionally applied to non-library remote jobs aligned with my skills, which has resulted in some interviews, but either I didn’t make the final cut or I withdrew because it was clear that the job couldn’t match my current position’s golden handcuffs (tenure, union, job autonomy, and decent salary). I’ve been in my current role for several years and have never received the resources I need to fulfill all of my day to day job duties, but thanks to having tenure I can likely signal that I have been looking elsewhere without compromising my current job security. Like many academic librarians, I have a 3-jobs-in-one job description and I would be very difficult to replace.

    1. Nicky*

      I will say it sounds like this might be hard to do if your current position is chronically understaffed. Do you have any coworkers who have been able to negotiate a four-day deal or something similar? If so, I’d ask them how they did it.

      If going to your boss directly and asking her what you’ve asked us here isn’t an option, I’d do that. It seems like you might feel confident that this wouldn’t risk your job, so I think asking your boss directly (“I’ve started to receive a lot of exciting consulting offers related to my primary research area, but I won’t have time to do them unless I move to a part-time work schedule. Is this something we could discuss?”) would be the best move.

      If that’s not an option for some reason or if your manager says no, I would start applying around to other jobs that would allow a four-day work schedule. Once you have an offer, bring it to your manager, let them know that you’ve received a job offer, and that the reason it appeals to you is that it allows for a four-day schedule. If they really need to keep you (and you seem confident that they do) this may be enough to sway them to bump you to a four-day schedule.

    2. BookMom*

      My parent managed to do this during his last 15 or so years of employment in a K12 system. He had specific job functions formally transferred to another person in his department who was made “assistant director” — in his case some of the supervisory stuff he hated doing anyway, like negotiating which media specialist would be placed at which school in a given year, dealing with everyday squabbles and grievances, etc. He was able to focus on bigger picture planning, budgeting and vendor contracts, public relations, etc. .8 FTE schedule let him consult and travel a bit, while bringing some prestige to the district. He was able to frame it as a win/win for both. I think being clear on exactly which responsibilities were no longer his helped, as opposed to trying to do a little less of all the things.

  50. Grey*

    As a manager, is it weird to hang your framed accreditations and company awards on your office wall? Does it make you look qualified, or does it just look like bragging?

    I’m debating between hanging those or traditional wall decor.

    1. Qwerty*

      Where are they going to be placed?

      If it is behind you / over your head so that its facing people who come in and ask questions, then that could be odd. That style fits for more public facing roles, like doctor offices, because the people walking into the rooms may want some reassurance. Your team will care more about how you interact with them than where you got your degree.

      If its on a side wall or the wall *you* look at? Go for it!

      1. Grey*

        I’m talking only about industry-specific accreditations. Like, I have two certifications in my field, so I’m thinking of hanging those. I want people to know I’m legit. But at the same time, I don’t want to show off.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Company awards from your current company, I think are fine. Otherwise I think hanging diplomas or accreditations are tacky. I know people do it, but just to answer your question with my personal feeling, it looks like bragging about … nothing important. (Exception is doctors. I want to know my doctor has a medical degree!)

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      This is what those of us who worked in DC called the “I Love Me” wall. It was either all of your diplomas, certificates, etc. or a bunch of photos of you shaking hands with politicians and generals.

      Totally depends on your company culture. I had my diplomas, my apprentice PE certificate, a couple of other things up in my office when I worked in DC. It was very normal.

      If your company gives out a lot of these things, it would strike me as kind of weird to hang them up.

      1. JustaTech*

        Could one get away from the ” I Love Me” wall by having other stuff up there too? Like, a diploma, a certificate, an award, a drawing by your kid/nibling/etc, a picture of your pet, a landscape photo?

        My spouse used to work for a company that gave out an acrylic cube every time your name was on a patent. My spouse got one (that he was quite proud of) but there was another person who had so many they built a knee-high wall in their office of these cubes.

        1. Specialized Skillets*

          That’s what I did! I hung a workplace-specific certificate and my Lean Six Sigma Green Belt certificate in my cubicle along with family photos in a little collage. I figure since the certificates are work-related (unlike my college degrees lol) it is fine.

    4. Work is not dumb*

      It really depends on the profession and the company. My colleagues who worked in an older tech company told me how they received trophies, watches and crystals as awards. They realized that the newer companies don’t value those physical items as a recognition.

    5. lost academic*

      Maybe accreditations if they are relevant and used in your day to day job. Company awards, I wouldn’t – it’s a little silly unless there’s some unique thing your company recognizes that’s that special.

      I would generally lean towards none of this.

    6. Scrappy Gurl*

      I manage a team at a call center. Supervisors are only promoted from within. When I was promoted I hung all my certificates and awards at my cube. I think I felt a need to show the other reps that I was qualified to move up. Now that I have been in the position for two years I have taken them all down. Just my two cents.

    7. PollyQ*

      Very much dependent on your company culture, I’d say. If other folks are doing it, go ahead. If not, I wouldn’t. And if you do go ahead & display, maybe just pick the most recent or most important. A wall full of these things reads as insecurity to me.

    8. Hiring Mgr*

      I don’t bring stuff like this to work myself, but in general I couldn’t care less how someone decorates their office. (assuming everything is work appropriate). It wouldn’t come across as qualified or braggy, just what you chose to hang up on the wall.

    9. Warrior Princess Xena*

      To me it depends what accreditations you want to hang.

      College degree/professional accreditation/other Big Deal items? Sure, no problem.

      Company awards, small certifications, probably not.

      I’d use the resume test – if you wouldn’t put it on your resume by name, I wouldn’t put them up on the wall.

  51. Kat Maps*

    Several weeks ago, I posted in the Friday open thread asking for advice on how to occupy my time when I was bored out of my skull at work. I share my role with 1 other person, “Alice”, and I seem to work much faster than she does — while Alice would often complain of being overworked and overwhelmed, I was frequently left bored and under stimulated. Our work was divided 50/50 by management.

    Alice put in her notice earlier this week. I’m really sad to see her go — she was a lovely, warm, and caring colleague. I enjoyed bouncing ideas and brain storming with her. Now all of her projects are being transitioned to me. I’m expecting management to assume that I’ll be overwhelmed (I was hired specifically to relieve some of her workload) but honestly I’m looking forward to the increase in workload. I’m tired of not having a single thing to do for entire days at a time. While I realize there’s a chance that the volume of work might become too much for me alone to handle, right now I’m not seeing it.

    I have a 1:1 with my manager next week, and I’m trying to think of a way to explain that Alice and I completed our tasks within a much different time frame, so I would like expectations to change towards me slightly in terms of what I can accomplish in a week. I also don’t want to come across like I’m dragging her work or productivity.

    I know that we’ll probably end up eventually hiring someone to replace Alice, and maybe in time it will become necessary and the workload will become too much for me alone. But right now I feel an urge to really emphasize that I am presently actually looking forward to the increase in work. Is there a way I can bring this up to my manager without sounding too critical of Alice? Or might this be a “show, don’t tell” situation, and just wait for the volume of my output to speak for itself? Am I being too naive about this whole thing, thinking I can actually handle the workload?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I think that’s very much a “wait and see” situation. Or wait and show rather. Let your work speak for itself. Also who knows, maybe one of her projects really way complicated enough to require more time. If Boss asks how you’re feeling about it you could do a generic “Looking forward to getting involved in more projects” but don’t say anything about Alice’s work rate or productivity.

      1. Kat Maps*

        I think as I was writing out my question, this solution became more evident to me, so thank you for reaffirming that :)

      2. irene adler*

        Exactly! See what transpires. And get a “hand’s on” with Alice’s work tasks first. Don’t want surprises.

        FYI: YMMV, but sometimes management does some unexpected things. When my lab tech put in his notice, I was very sure management would allow an employee who used to work for me, to move into this lab tech role. This employee was looking forward to moving into the position as well (he wasn’t fond of his current boss).
        Nope!
        I was told the position was being eliminated and going forward, I was to do my own lab work.

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      I would recommend not saying anything to your manager until you’ve had a little while to acclimate to Alice’s workload to see if it’s something that you find comfortable or not.

  52. Cyndi*

    Other Jewish people around here, how do you handle Christmas season at the office?

    I grew up in a “celebrates both Hannukah and Christmas” type family with a minimally observant Jewish mom and a WASP dad, in a very Christian town. But in the past several years I’ve felt less and less interested in celebrating another religion’s holiday just because it’s the default, and aside from a few aesthetic things I love about the Christmas season I pretty much only recognize it for my parents’ sake. A manager at an old job–who didn’t know I was Jewish–once organized Christmas decorations and then confided to me that “we’re not supposed to in case someone gets /offended/, heh heh,” which really didn’t help. My current team is mostly people who are low-key but still overtly Christian, and Christmas is a big deal here, with a cubicle decorating contest and of course a Secret Santa. So as a Jew I feel weird about the Secret Santa, but still participate every year because it’s the sociable thing to do and heck, I really would be sad to skip out on the gift exchange.

    The thing is, I can’t see a benefit to telling people that I’m Jewish and feel weird about the office Christmas spirit? I don’t think people would be hostile or anything but I don’t like the idea of all the Christmas things becoming identical “holiday” things that everyone will still just think of as Christmas, and I’m worried about creating an expectation for me to conspicuously celebrate Hannukah when I’m not even all that observant of my own faith. It seems like I’ll feel awkward and out of place either way. Should I keep quiet and go on rolling with it?

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      I’m an active Christian, but hate some of things that you mentioned. We are a small division, and the first time we tried Secret Santa, it never got off the ground. (in fact, I am dreading next week, when our owners (new in the last year or so) are doing “Employee appreciation week.” It includes, I think giving folks pumpkin carving kits and judging on Friday.

      I would consider bowing out of what makes you uncomfortable and putting one or two specifically Jewish items as part of your office/cubical décor.

      1. Cyndi*

        I’ve thought about it a minute longer and realized the one thing I really want is not to get anything explicitly Christmas-y in the exchange–I lucked out last year and got an assortment of fancy snacks. When the woman organizing it passes out slips for us to write down what we like, I might just write a note at the bottom and leave it at that?

        1. Jay (no, the other one)*

          That sounds like a good plan!

          I’m Jewish and I have spoken up about some piece of this in every job I’ve ever had. I don’t want to spoil people’s fun. I also don’t want to be invisible for six weeks out of every year. Since I have also spoken up about other things like scheduling a mandatory offsite on the first day of Rosh Hashanah and having a candy-and-cookie filled Easter celebration in the middle of Passover, everyone knows I’m Jewish. And I’ve been clear about not observing Christmas in my home since some American Jews do.

          I don’t shut down office Christmas fun (except for the one time I confiscated the Christmas music CD on November 10th. TOO EARLY) and I usually try to add the festivities by bringing in something for Chanukah – chocolate gelt or sometimes homemade soufganiyot (Israeli jelly donuts that are the best thing ever). Sounds like you don’t want to be as public about it as I am, which I totally respect. I think putting on note on your Secret Santa slip is a good start.

          1. Cyndi*

            Yeah, I barely celebrate even at home so there really isn’t much to be public about! I just don’t love celebrating other people’s holiday because it’s the “default,” same way I don’t love people assuming I’m straight even though I’ve been single for [REDACTED]

        2. fhqwhgads*

          Some of the well-done office gift exchanges I’ve seen had slips with lists for 3 things you’d like and 3 things you absolutely do not. If they don’t already do that, maybe suggest it? It’d probably help everyone.
          That said, I usually do opt-out citing “not my holiday”.

    2. HannahS*

      Captain Awkward had a good exploration of this:
      https://captainawkward.com/2017/12/19/1064-christmas-help-for-a-non-christian/

      Also, grey-rocking is an option. “Blah blah blah Christmas spirit” You: “Well, I don’t celebrate Christmas, so I won’t participate.” “Oh, no it’s not CHRISTIAN it’s just FUN blah blah blah” You: “Well, I don’t celebrate Christmas, so I won’t participate.” If they keep going: “Listen, is it a problem for you that I don’t celebrate Christmas?” Or even just, “Ok.”

      Additionally: “Well, I don’t celebrate Christmas, so I’m probably not the right audience for this”
      Also yes, you’ll probably feel awkward and out of place. It’s a reflection on the other people who are…deliberately making you feel awkward and out of place. There isn’t a magic sentence that will MAKE people understand.

    3. fueled by coffee*

      The one thing I like about December is the proliferation of peppermint-flavored items. So I stock up on some peppermint bark and then spend six weeks politely smiling at other people’s Christmas spirit while gritting my teeth and waiting for January.

      I personally don’t introduce Chanukah items into office Christmas-themed events, because what I actually want is for people to observe their religions privately, not for people to assume that religious practices are okay in the office so long as there’s a nod made to the most visible of the non-Christian minority December holidays (said nod is also usually, like, a tray of generic cookies with blue frosting, because as we all know, blue is the color of Judaism). At least this year Christmas and Chanukah actually overlap?

      I realize I sound like a grinch about this, and I would absolutely never voice this to my coworkers, but sometimes I just want to go to work between Halloween and New Years without having to dedicate mental energy to buying secret santa gifts and finding an ugly sweater to wear to an office party and baking cookies for the cookie swap and explaining why I don’t want to hang a stocking with my name on it by the front desk. Especially when I’ve had difficulty arranging PTO for holidays I *actually* celebrate. Anyway, no real advice, just commiseration.

      1. Cyndi*

        Haha that’s me exactly, but about choral music, greenery, sparkly things and gingerbread. I LOVE gingerbread cake and even in December it’s harder to find than gingerbread cookies, which are also great but not my One True Cake Love. Usually I buy a few boxes of the Trader Joe’s cake mix and hoard them. Thank you for validating my lingering dregs of Christmas-ing!

        Also, I make it a general policy not to buy clothes for themed work things that I wouldn’t want in my wardrobe otherwise. No ugly sweaters for any holiday. No charity t-shirts, though I’ll happily donate a few bucks directly. That kind of thing.

      2. Please Mark This Confidential and Leave It Lying Around*

        Your last paragraph is me. I have no bandwidth for Office Xmas, Office Holiday, Office Hanukkah, just… no. It is not energizing for me. Some people seem to get such a bang out of it, and my sincere wish is that they could just enjoy that together and leave the rest of us out of it.

        1. Cyndi*

          I don’t even have bandwidth for Office [Any Holiday I Actually Love]. The things that matter to me personally aren’t FOR you, office.

        2. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah. You wanna put out Name-Any-Holiday candy in the breakroom? Go nuts. I’ll eat some, probably. You want me to do any other office Name-Any-Holiday thing? No thank you please.

  53. Justme, The OG*

    What exactly is business formal for a woman who doesn’t wear dresses and doesn’t have any suit jackets? I’ve been trying to find jackets at resale places but the pickings in my size are nonexistent.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Banana Republic or Ann Taylor should have suiting options up to size 14 in store or 18 online (last I checked). Buy one matching suit for around $200 and another pair of pants for maybe $60 and you can mix them each in a couple times a week.

      1. Justme, The OG*

        It’s too close to the event to do anything online. The event is Monday and I was told of the dress requirements yesterday. I also don’t have $200 to spend on a suit I will wear once.

    2. Justme, The OG*

      Addendum: This is for a single event, not something I will wear every day. My job is business casual, emphasis on the casual.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      I have had luck with amazon and walmart sweater blazers. They feel like sweaters (little more stretch) but look more like blazers. 10$ and still using it 6months later. Look for the collar style, get that more formal flipped. Honestly tho, some of my actual sweaters with the right shirt look pretty formal too – fitted rather than loose, vneck over a shirt with a collar for instance.

      Collared shirts (Button downs) with nice pants will always read more on the formal side too. Those are a lot easier to find. Long sleeves reads more formal than short sleeves too.

      Solids or tiny patterns read more formal than large patterns.

      The right jewelry can also upscale from casual to formal. If you’ve got existing pieces that might be worth trying.

      1. Justme, The OG*

        I tried Walmart already, and nothing. Amazon won’t get here in time (already checked). I’m super busty and never wear a button front shirt because they do not fit well.

        1. DisneyChannelThis*

          Oh I thought this was a general question not what to wear Monday morning. Then you’re SOL. Just apologize for being underdressed.

          1. Justme, The OG*

            Yeah it’s a specific event. I’m really peeved that they told us (it’s a scholarship luncheon) just a few days before the event what the dress code is. They said “dress for a job interview” and my last one was over Zoom but before COVID and I definitely wore a sweater and jeans. I got the job.

            1. PollyQ*

              Do you have khakis or cords? Those read a little more formal than jeans. Also, wearing dressy shoes and maybe a nice scarf will elevate that outfit.

                1. Minimal Pear*

                  Does “no dresses” extend to “no skirts”? I have somewhat similar dressing preferences to you and I rely heavily on calf-length skirts in my work wardrobe.

    4. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Do you have any nicer or more structured cardigans? I have a cardigan that is more similar in structure to a blazer than an oversized sweater, but without the stiffness. Depending on your role and how strict they’re adhering to a true definition of business formal, you may be able to get away with a blouse and slacks/skirt. I think button downs, pussy bows, and cardigan sets can all pass close enough to business formal if there’s no way to get a blazer.

      1. Justme, The OG*

        I have maybe one that has buttons on it. But no blouse to wear under it. I’ve also shopped for one of those and no luck. It’s also supposed to be 80 degrees that day so I want to minimize wearing sweaters.

        1. Jay (no, the other one)*

          Dang, because a turtleneck was going to be my suggestion – it’s definitely sweater weather here. Saw your comment below about not wearing skirts or dresses. When I was a size 26, my “business formal” outfit was a pair of wide-legged black pants and a tunic top. The pants had a certain “swish” to them that made them appear formal and the tunic was a deep burgundy. I bought them online, which I realize isn’t an option for you, and I’ve seen similar things at Catherine’s and Lane Bryant in the US. It still sucks to have to buy something for one event, but maybe you can get something that’s a little more usable than a suit.

          1. Not Today, Satan*

            Agree that a simple pair of black pants and shoes with at least a little bit of heel (even dressy boots?) combined with any simple tunic top — could also be black — will work. Add whatever accessories (scarf? Dangly earrings?) you feel comfortable in.

            1. Justme, The OG*

              I don’t wear heels either, even small ones. Literally every pair of shoes I own are flats.

          2. Justme, The OG*

            Our Lane Bryant closed earlier this year, so there’s none within an hour drive. I’ve never seen a Catherine’s locally.

            2. Loredena*

              TJ Max or Marshall’s? I’ve had reasonable luck with them. Or Kohl’s. Black khakis or leggings and a long tunic are my go to and I wear nothing but flats. I have a sparkly pair of FitFlops. Add jewelry and a nice scarf

        2. Esmeralda*

          If you are wearing a sweater or jacket you do not need long sleeves. You can wear a shell or a short sleeve top, even a sleeveless top. Get something with a round neck (not a v neck in other words, crew neck is ok if the fabric is fairly nice). If you’re busty then nothing clingy — honestly, I wear a tee type top in a solid color, heavy weight fabric. Target is your friend for this sort of thing. Then a cardigan as others have described in a neutral or coordinating color. Add a scarf — silky or cotton, not a wool/cold weather sort of thing. For instance, navy or black cardigan, red or warm rose colored or teal or turquoise, black or navy pants or skirt. Red cardigan, black or navy or cream colored top. GRey cardigan, almost any color top, black pants.

          Are you being interviewed? are you the interviewer? guest of honor? If you are just attending as one of the department to and are not “on”, then don’t worry as much.

    5. Hen in a Windstorm*

      I’ve worn a silky long-sleeved blouse and long black skirt. The fabric is what makes it more “formal”.

      1. Justme, The OG*

        I don’t own any skirts. I don’t wear skirts or dresses. My fancy clothes are a jumpsuit but it’s completely wring for this event.

        1. Warrior Princess Xena*

          Do you have any good dress slacks? Nice blouse + nice pair of pants might do the trick.

    6. Gracely*

      Nice pants and a nice, long sleeve top could work. Try TJMaxx or Ross if you haven’t had luck at resale places if you want to find a jacket/blazer.

    7. Not Today, Satan*

      Maybe we could be more helpful if we knew what pieces you already own that could make up a suitable ensemble… whether you’re open to running to a store over the weekend to add a specific item, or what…

      1. Justme, The OG*

        I have black dress pants and a bunch of t-shirts and sweaters (but too hot for sweaters). I don’t have much time to run to the store over the weekend, I tried last night and struck out.

        2. Lily Rowan*

          Black pants and whatever your best-looking shirt is will be fine! I mean, it’s what you’ve got, so it’s going to have to be fine, right?

        3. Lyudie*

          Are any of your t-shirts solid colored? A solid t-shirt tucked into your dress pants with a bit of jewelry would work I think.

          1. JustaTech*

            Yes to the jewelry! Pearls if you have them, or something on the “classy not flashy” end of the spectrum.
            Polished hair and makeup (of whatever amount you wear).
            An evening handbag if you have one, or at least something that reads “fancy/business” rather than fabric.

      2. Westsidestory*

        Maybe just your regular pants and a new top that has some sparkle to it? If it’s a luncheon all they’ll be seeing is the top half of you, and when your standing the sparkly bits will draw the eye away from your workaday pants.

        1. Justme, The OG*

          I’m definitely not a sparkle person. I would feel really uncomfortable and that I was drawing too much attention to myself. I also looked for blouses yesterday and struck out.

          1. Esmeralda*

            Stop looking at blouses. Buttons, collars, patterns, etc etc. It will drive you bats if you don’t know what to look for, what looks good on you.

            Stick to a solid color pullover top, round neck, short sleeve or sleeveless if you have a cardigan. If you don’t have a cardigan or jacket, then choose a longsleeve pullover top and *for sure* wear a scarf or jewelry with it. I personally like a really big scarf, like a pashmina kind of thing. But that may be too dramatic for you to feel comfortable.

          2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

            What I wear for “dressier than t-shirt” tops (which are definitely not fully formalwear), are the Kohl’s Croft and Barrow Essentials Crewneck shirts. They come in lots of prints and in plus sizes, they’re basically t-shirts with a nicer neckline, and they’re almost always on sale for less than $10/each. My local Kohl’s will generally have them available in plus sizes in-store, but I have no idea if you have a Kohl’s near you or what their selection is like at other stores. I look for busy prints so that if I spill coffee or food on myself it is less noticeable.

            For a really dressy event I’d pair one of those shirts with the one blazer I own, which I think I bought at JC Penney about 15-20 years ago and is black. That is not specifically helpful in your case, but may be a thing to consider picking up longer-term if your body tends to stay a consistent size. I picked mine on the basis of being black and machine-washable. If you can afford to buy a blazer and have a Kohl’s near you, it looks like Kohl’s also sells plus size blazers, although their in-store selection may be hit-or-miss.

          3. Imtheone*

            Black pants, a black t-shirt that’s more dressy, and a scarf or necklace. Shoes that are more muted. If it’s hot, few people will be in suits.

    8. SJ (they/them)*

      This sounds really difficult from your additional comments – I hope you find a solution but if you don’t, I want to say that it’s okay if you need to give up on finding something new and just do the best with what you have. You mentioned downthread you have black pants and t-shirts – if it comes down to the wire, pick the darkest color / plainest pattern t-shirt and just tell yourself you did your best with what you had available. It’s not your fault you didn’t get any notice for this — any awkwardness should live squarely with the event organizers who were so inconsiderate. Good luck.

    9. The New Wanderer*

      It’s obnoxious that they didn’t let you know this was going to be a dressier event than expected. They may want “business formal” but since it’s a luncheon rather than a dinner/evening event, I would not be surprised if at least some other people don’t wear blazers or suits, or don’t keep the jackets on if they do.

      Since you’re short on time and the temp is too warm for sweaters, I would wear the plainest, best-fitting t-shirt you have with the black pants and nice jewelry. If you do have time to hunt for a scarf with a similar color scheme as the t-shirt (or own one), there are guides online for how to wear scarves in various dressy ways. I know (as a formerly busty person) scarves are just bulk in the front, but it might elevate your outfit for this one occasion.

      1. WellRed*

        Yep. This sounds fine to me! I find it hard to believe a Monday daytime event is going to be all that dressy no matter what you’ve been told.

    10. Ms. Norbury*

      The easiest option is to wear your nicest top and pants (even if they’re pretty basic, better if they’re in non-stretch fabrics) and then put extra effort on shoes, accessories and grooming. Somewhat flashy accessories (like a tasteful statemente necklace or large-ish dangly earrings) can be borrowed or bought reasonably cheaply and can really make a difference in the overall effect. Put some extra effort in fixing your hair and, if you wear it, make-up, and you should be good to go.

    11. I edit everything*

      I had a surprise informational interview (same day notice), and I wore nice jeans, a black t-shirt, and a long, flowy, sheer shirt (technically a button-up dress, but I’ve always worn it as a topper because it would be too short as a dress), and boots, and that seemed to be nice enough. It looked put together and nice, but was just random stuff I already had.

      Old Navy is a pretty good source for larger sizes, loose fitting tops, and the like, if you have one close to you.

  54. cioè*

    Looking for training recs!

    My startup (healthcare) does a ton of scheduling patients by phone for exams. There’s a certain amount of quasi-cold calling involved (patients have been referred to us, but may not know who we are, and we reach out to them). Our staff are all remote, and we’re looking for good e-learning training materials to improve customer service. Any recommendations?

    I’d love anything that runs gamut from improving basic phone etiquette on up to including leadership tools for managers to help us get more patients in the door to get their exams completed.

  55. Work is not dumb*

    Do you know anyone who’ve been negatively conditioned by workplaces continuously? I’ve a friend from university who has a belief that workplaces are filled with dumb and unreasonable people. Here’s my story.

    In her 20s (when we met), she worked in entry-level jobs such as administrative or call centre type of positions. Several of the jobs only lasted for several months. At that time she was dating an engineer who told her that she does not need to have a career.

    He left her when she turned 30. She was devastated. (He moved to another country so there’s virtually no legal avenues for compensation.) She dated other people that did not work out. She applied for secretarial jobs and government jobs that she never heard back from. During the era, she vented how the employers showed no courtesy on getting back to her and tell her how to get the job. She told me how her call centre job was soul sucking and she eventually quit. She told me how her mom reiterated that the employers should bend over for her instead of she bends over to employers. She refused to work for low paying or entry level jobs.

    To further reinforce her belief, she found out that some folks from her high school who were not high archivers like her have stable jobs. She told me things such as, “She could not spell but she works for the library.” She also told me how “dumb people” advanced their careers by some dirty tactics.

    1. Ann Ominous*

      Are you looking to commiserate or for advice?

      Reading this made me realize how far away I’ve stepped from other people’s drama … I want no part of any of it. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

      Not my job to change people’s minds, and especially not those who don’t want to be changed.

      I have a much more peaceful life now.

      1. Work is not dumb*

        Thanks. This is the answer to “what should I do?”. It’s not my job to change other people’s mind.

        It’s better for me to step away from this person, but we were friends since university and it’s hard.

    2. Hen in a Windstorm*

      She’s telling herself stories to justify not being where she wants to be in life instead of doing something different to get where she wants to be. It’s self-defeating, but you probably can’t help her see that. (I don’t think it’s the workplaces that have conditioned her, it’s her response to the situations that is the problem.)

      You can try the classic “and what are you going to do about that?” or “hmm, that’s not my experience”, but she has to want to change.

      1. Cookies For Breakfast*

        Yep, this right here.

        I have a friend who pursued a very exciting dream career for years, realised it was very financially unstable unless you’re at the top, and decided she wasn’t going to spend more years trying to get there.

        She has job hopped in many different fields ever since. She has a short honeymoon period with every job, and then it becomes the worst thing to ever happen to her and she quits. Even with the job she has held down for a year, she was talking about leaving after month two. Sometimes she has legitimate concerns, other times she’s done at the first sign of disagreement with a boss or a coworker. She’ll decide that she’s right, and they’re wrong, and the relationship is ruined (I’ve seen her do this in her personal life too).

        She asks me for career and CV advice every time she decides to switch fields again. I’ve taken to directing her to AAM, because none of my personal experience of longer-term roles really speaks to her, and I don’t know any of the industries she’s interested in. I really feel for her, because it’s clear her first dream career is where her heart is and where she’d thrive, but it’s also clear she wants to settle down in a way that work wouldn’t allow. Accepting it is definitely what’s taking the biggest toll.

        1. Work is not dumb*

          Yes I got the same vibes here. I afraid to point her to AAM so that she has less stories to reinforce her “bad people at work” belief.

  56. Fork in the Road*

    Trying to decide between two potential job offers.
    I’m feeling pretty DONE at my current job – toxic positivity in management (with no actual actions) and high turnover (think over 50% of the staff in our department resigning in the past 12 months). I’ve been here 6.5 years and been promoted 3 times.
    By absolute chance, a position on another team opened up – this team is known for doing great work, having achievable KPIs, and I know people in that department who have happily been in their roles for 5+ years. I interviewed and got the job offer with a modest raise. It’s different than the work I’ve been doing, but looks really interesting. I have until the end of week to give them my answer.
    AND
    I’ve also been interviewing externally and will likely get a job offer from a brand new company early next week. This would be for a lot more money (40% raise), doing the work similar to what I’m already doing. It’s new problems and a new company.

    I… cannot decide which one to take. I’ve never been in this position before with two offers and I’m terrified about making the wrong choice. It’s such a privileged position to be in, which is why I feel guilty asking my network for help.
    On one hand, I like the predictable, stable nature of my existing company… but I’m also kind of done with all the internal politics. I like the idea of significantly more money (obviously)… but am scared I’ll be jumping into a place with 10+ hour workdays.

    Thoughts???

    1. Starchy*

      Is the external company a start up? If so keep in mind a lot of start ups fail and with the economy doing what is doing, now might not be a good time to join one. If work life balance is a priority then I would stick to my current company. Did the external company indicate there would be a lot of hours or is that your assumption? Maybe it’s something you can follow up about.
      As for internal politics, not sure that is avoidable anywhere lol. If you are unhappy with your current manager, but happy with the company as a whole then I would consider staying. If you are unhappy with your company then I would consider leaving because a new department won’t change that.
      When I have these kinds of choices I usually follow my gut feeling. Look at it this way, if you end up not liking the choice you made you can always start looking for another job.

      1. Fork in the Road*

        That makes sense. It’s not a startup but IS in high growth phase… which usually does lead to layoffs 1-2 years down the line if the company doesn’t meet their own expectations. I’m in an industry that was medium impacted by COVID; a few rounds of layoffs but not as much as the travel/hospitality industry.

        I’m going to do some thinking on whether I’m unhappy with the company direction or just my department direction… and put more effort into figuring out what my gut wants. Thanks!

    2. Keeley Jones, The Independent Woman*

      Is there a reason other than salary increase that leads you to believe you’ll be working significantly more? I recently took a job that was a 60% increase and I had simple fears, but that wasn’t the case. I had to take the job even it meant me working more (and there may be times I have to) because my spouse is now disabled and I needed to bridge the income gap. But thankfully the large pay increase didn’t mean a large workload. I was just really underpaid before and move to an industry the generally has higher pay.

      I’d take the higher paying job, unless something during the interview process leads you to believe you’ll be working a lot.

      1. Fork in the Road*

        Mostly looking at Glassdoor! My current company is known in the industry for having lower salaries but a great work/life balance. But it also varies by department – mine just happens to have better hours (8-4, with one Friday off a month that doesn’t eat into PTO).
        The new company is in the growth phase, not exactly startup, but trying to scale quickly and their Glassdoor reviews talk a lot about bad work/life balance. But then again, it’s a new team in that company, so there might be more flexibility in the set hours.

        Thanks for your perspective – great to know you took a higher paying job and it didn’t end up requiring significantly more hours!!

        1. Rose*

          Honestly I think you have to figure out what you prioritize more. If the consistent theme of the Glassdoor reviews is bad work/life balance, there is a decent chance that it is indeed true. Sure it may not be true across all departments/roles – but if avoiding bad work/life balance is super important, might not want to take the risk. Conversely, if the salary bump is most important and you are OK if it means working more, then might be worth the risk. I am currently in a role with very good W/L balance and a lot of flexibility – so it would take a TON of money to get me to move, because at this point in my life that is more important than more money.

    3. MJ*

      Something I’ve seen suggested (here? Captain Awkward?):
      Make a decision. Pick one of the jobs. (Not actually accepting the offer, just in your own mind.)

      Then see how you feel about it. Are you excited about the possibilities? Do you wish you had picked the other one? Are you suddenly overwhelmed by the cons?

  57. ACG*

    How do you go about equating retail experience to an office environment during the interview process? I worked retail for 14 years and while *I* know I can translate that customer service experience if I’m hired, my last interview left me flustered as I tried to adequately put into words why I’d be a good fit (though, fwiw that interview had a bunch of red flags so I dodged a bullet).

    1. ferrina*

      Part of it is that you need an interviewer that understands the value of retail experience. Some of the key skills:
      -Cool under pressure (including time pressure, limited supplies, and of course, high stress situations)
      -Able to work and collaborate with all personalities
      -Conflict resolution skills
      -Understanding client needs (even when they don’t know what they need) then guiding them to what they need
      -Communicating with folks that don’t have background knowledge (if you worked in a specialty store where you are providing advice or info on how the products are used).

      Also knowing that these are raw skills that you’ll be applying in a new way, so talk about how you are able to quickly adapt to new environments and how you’re looking forward to using your skills in a new way

    2. Adrian*

      If you’re talking about a specific office duty, maybe you could relate a similar retail task you’ve done to it.

      This was long ago, but I heard of a restaurant server who became a department store buyer. At the restaurant the server had come up with a system for reviewing meal checks, to identify which items sold best and at what times of the day. The boss also wrote an enthusiastic letter of reference.

  58. sc.wi*

    I’d love any good scripts to use when explaining to coworkers that I’m now in charge/taking over parts of their work.

    Long story short: my position was created as part of a restructuring. While the majority of staff are thrilled that I’m managing part of their workload, a few offices are still holding out, trying to continue performing work that is now mine. I’ve worked closely with my (wonderful) manager and HR on this; they were clear from the beginning that some staff were upset with the changes, and we’ve been coddling them for the last 3 months.
    The most concerning office has made a LOT of progress after seeing my work, but they still have an attitude that they will always know better than me (for the record, I’ve had 3 separate staff tell me that they’re very happy I’m involved with this office, due to past experiences with them). Now, though, my manager wants me to be more firm in explaining that I am not just supporting this aspect of their work, I am managing it completely. Like I mentioned, they’ve made a lot of progress, but I am still anticipating friction. One (very gossipy) staff member thinks she is fantastic at what I do, while HR and my manager have explicitly told me that her skills are quite… lackluster.

    Any advice/scripts on how to approach this?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Why isn’t this management’s job? They should have laid out the new structure, and should be actively addressing the people who aren’t adhering to it. If they are avoiding the problem, it’s going to be really hard for you to fix it.

    2. Hannahnannah*

      I agree with AB’s Evil Twin here. This is something that Management should communicate to all of the offices/departments that are affected by this change. That way, it doesn’t look like you are barging in on the other offices’ work.

      Management’s communication needs to be clear, and should reflect these sorts of ideas:
      – sc.wi’s role has changed and they are now responsible for XYZ work in ABC offices.
      – Any open projects in this category need to be transferred to sc.wi by ___ date.
      – Forward all new requests for this kind of project to sc.wi directly.

      Best wishes as you get this sorted out!

  59. Coach Leonore*

    What’s the best way to open a “Boundaries and Behaviors” discussion with someone I promoted above me on purpose? Note: I’m female and he’s male, and this may have subconscious bearing on the issue, although he is supportive of women’s rights.

    Long story short: 1) I was a head sports coach at a high school for years (boys and girls), 2) the last few years I had an assistant coach with great complementary skills, 3) but now I’m changing careers, 4) so I suggested they hire him as head coach and I assist for a few hours per week to get him off the ground.

    And now he’s alienating people, and it’s problematic. He is extremely anxious about being a big success because he’s been struggling career-wise and is behind for his age, and it shows. He’s trying to be the big boss-man. He’s even pulled rank with me and scolded me in practice for not doing things his way. I warned him about it, but aside from condescending to me, it sets a bad example for the kids.

    This all came to a head this week when our long-time equipment supplier absolutely refused to have anything further to do with him. Either I pick up the gear myself (enabling), or I don’t pick it up and the kids have no gear for the competition this weekend and he blames the supplier (ugh).

    He’s being insecure, arrogant, and defensive. What’s my most effective approach?

    1. ferrina*

      It sounds like you knew him before he was hired? Is that right? If so, could you take him out to coffee and ask him what’s up? Then listen to his response (I’ve had someone literally talk themselves to the right answer while I just nodded). Explain that he’s alientating people, and you’re confused because that’s not who he is and not why you recommended him. It’s not about telling him what not to do, it’s about refocusing him on what to do.

    2. Hydrangea*

      The person above him needs to address the larger pattern. Is that the principal? Have you been having conversations about the larger pattern?

      In the short term, you, Big Boss, and Coach should have a quick sit down, explain that he has alienated the supplier, and that you will all be working on that over time, but for today, you and Coach will go together to pick up the equipment and do whatever it takes to start mending the relationship.

      1. Coach Leonore*

        Ah-ha. This is super helpful. As a coach I should always be aware of the “positive action” approach but sometimes it’s hard to remember when dealing with other coaches. I particularly like your soft-open approach and the listening advice. Because we coaches give a lot of “drop and give me twenty” orders, we can get into an authoritarian pattern. In fact, I think that’s what I may tell him. Hey! Did you just listen and I talk myself into the right answer? It worked! :-)

        1. Coach Leonore*

          So the above was my reply to ferrina, but my reply to you, Hydrangea, is thank you. I will involve the principal next if my boundaries discussion doesn’t work. The supplier issue will require me to help mend fences for a bit, but hopefully I can help restore trust so they can work with each other.

          1. Hydrangea*

            lol, yeah, it seemed like.

            I think a combination of ferrina’s response and my response will work well. ferrina’s approach would be good for the long term conversations you need to have with Coach and Big Boss. I think you should be involving Big Boss sooner rather than later, even if it’s only keeping them appraised. I actually think they should already have been informed.

            Short term, though, you might want to go with drop and give me twenty to explain why both of you are going to visit the supplier to pick up the equipment. Maybe on the drive over you can have a coffee talk conversation about what’s going on.

    3. Fabulous*

      Gosh, I would have to give him a hard reality check or Come to Jesus talk, like now. You recommended that he be promoted in your place and you did that as a FAVOR as he demonstrated promise in his assistant position. Since then, not only has he demonstrated that he was not equipped to handle the “power” of the position, he has done this in front of the children, effectively undermining your entire decision to promote him. Let him know that you WILL be talking to the higher ups and providing your recommendations for his removal if he does not clean up his behavior and issue some apologies to both yourself AND the children. Holy moly, this man…

  60. The Prettiest Curse*

    Since it’s been a dramatic week here in the UK, I thought it might be fun to have a lighter discussion. So, what are your favourite songs about work or topics related to work?

    Some that come to mind for me are One Piece at a Time by Johnny Cash (car plant worker steals parts to build his own car; it doesn’t quite work out), 9 to 5 by Dolly Parton (of course) and I Committed Murder by Macy Gray (woman kills her boyfriend’s boss for not paying him.)

    2. rage criers unite*

      It’s 5 o’Clock Somewhere is a great one about leaving work to drink margaritas at lunch and then never coming back – so thats fun.

      There’s a Shania Twain song about having a hard day at work and all the things that happen that is cute too

      1. Hen in a Windstorm*

        Five O’Clock World by the Vogues (really old) is a nice 60s pop song about how great the world is when you leave work for the day.

        Also, lately, 16 Tons, but that’s real grim.

        1. Moonlight Elantra*

          I LOVE that song and I used to sing it in the car on the way home from work on Friday afternoons.

          1. JustaTech*

            I have been known to hum 16 Tons when I felt upper management was being unreasonable. “Brother Can You Spare a Dime” as well.

    4. ferrina*

      Mission Statement by Weird Al.
      It was a terrifying day when I realized that I was able to follow the whole thing.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yes! I showed that video to my dad the former management consultant/ business professor and it was hilarious!

    6. Polly Hedron*

      “Take This Job and Shove It”, written by David Allan Coe in 1977. Johnny Paycheck’s version became the number 1 country music song.
      The song inspired a 1981 movie of the same name.

      3. Polly Hedron*

        As balance, here’s an even older one, from Mary Poppins, 1964, describing the opposite attitude:

        A Spoonful of Sugar
        In every job that must be done
        There is an element of fun
        You find the fun and snap!
        The job’s a game
        And every task you undertake
        Becomes a piece of cake
        A lark! A spree! It’s very clear to see that
        A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down ….

    8. Westsidestory*

      I was think about my experience in book publishing to answer another query here….so naturally my mind went to Lady Gaga’s “Bad Romance.” This was a favorite in our peer karaoke group but certainly industry specific!

      Thanks for the smile, and for bringing up good memories.

      1. JustaTech*

        There was a wonderful parody of this song called “Bad Project” about a grad student and the terrible research project she’d been given. It’s very life-sciences specific, but was very well done (lyrics, dancing, costumes, everything).

    9. Irish Teacher*

      Do union ballads count? If so, I have a string of them: “Tramworkers of this Town,” “Ballad of Jim Larkin,” “The Citizen Army is Out Today,” “Joe Hill.”

      Apart from union songs, there is “Ordinary Man,” about a guy whose company shuts down and leaves him unemployed. “The Ferryman” has a similar theme.

    10. KX*

      “You Are Boring the Shit Out of Me” by Hanslick Rebellion

      And two by Jonathan Coulton: “Re: Your Brains” and “Code Monkey”

    11. WellRed*

      This isn’t quite what you asked but there’s a novelty song called Eff you til Monday that I think y’all will appreciate. It’s on YouTube.

    13. JustaTech*

      There was a radio station in Boston that had a running thing where at 5 pm on Fridays they’d play “Bang the Drum All Day” (lyrics: I don’t want to work I just want to bang on the drum all day) and people would call in to “air drum” (basically saying “bang bang bang”) to this song.

      Very silly and very funny and clearly quite cathartic.

    14. Dark Macadamia*

      “Teenagers” by My Chemical Romance – A friend made a mix CD for our grad school cohort (middle school teachers) and it cracked me up that they included this one.

      Probably not great for your light-hearted thread but I love “Millworker” by James Taylor. Giant bummer, beautiful song.

    16. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      When I’m frustrated by work I love The Struts – Could Have Been Me

      Just a great sing along shouter.

      Also, Head Like A Hole by NIN
      Yes, I go dark!

  61. DEIJ-aybe*

    Yesterday’s discussion about health insurance being or not being standard in the US reminded me of a debate we’ve been having in my org and I’d like to get some insight from the commentariat. Like many environmental nonprofits, we’re mostly-white (and mostly female FWIW) and we get a lot of totally appropriate pushback from funders for not having more BIPOC staff, especially when we’re trying to work in communities of color. The problem is: our organizational capacity is a mess, and I honestly feel it’s a bit exploitative to try to be hiring community members when we don’t pay a living wage or offer benefits. These people should not have to be impovershed to work for us. And neither should we, our own staff, but of course there’s a lot of privilege in the nonprofit sector so our employees are often retirees who come back “part time” (FT but no benefits) or people with wealthy, insured spouses. How can we invite more BIPOC into our space when our space is a mess?

    1. DEIJ-aybe*

      More context because I don’t want to be conflating “BIPOC” with “low income” – in this case, our project is about drinking water in an old rustbelt city with a minority-majority population, and specifically we are working in underserved neighborhoods – the rightful criticism is that our staff are not from that community specifically.

    2. ferrina*

      Pay real wages. Sorry, but that’s what it will take. I know a lot of non-profits are struggling with this, but it’s inherently disingenuous to say “We want to have your voice and respect you! And pay you less than you are worth!”

    3. Raw Flour*

      You said it yourself: it’s exploitative to be hiring community members when you don’t pay a living wage or offer benefits. I really think that fixing this is the only possible solution.

    4. Ez*

      In the long term, you have to clean up the mess. In the meantime, make sure you’re hiring practices are equitable. It doesn’t sound like your company would be very attractive to the community, but the community should not feel *excluded*.

    5. Temperance*

      Do you require education or specialized training do work there? I’m wondering if a scholarship would suffice.

  62. Worst Boss Ever?*

    I think I inadvertently made my employee cry during our 1:1 while I was delivering feedback and I feel like a monster.

    I have an employee who has been struggling with project team integration – there are a lot of things going on with that project team that are absolutely not this person’s “fault” per se, but there are things that they are doing that are making things worse – one of which is disengaging with the team when disagreed with (to keep it short). During the 1:1 we had a few difficult conversations about role & responsibilities on the team to ensure we were in alignment, then I shared about the disengagement and how that means the team does not benefit from this person’s view point and makes it challenging for work to continue – asked in their view how we could have more productive conversations where folks may have differing view points. Maybe I pushed too hard… I tried to keep it positive, but they admitted they didn’t feel valued often and I could tell from there they were very upset and wanted to get off the phone.

    A few notes: I work entirely remotely, so does this individual – we have never met in person. I have been their direct manager since earlier this year. This issue has been ongoing for several months and I already know I messed up not bringing it up sooner; I’m a new(er) leader and my personal growth area is that I am trying to improve my ability to give feedback that isn’t “soft.”

    What do I do? Do I follow up with an email/note like “hey, I recognize things got emotional, I want to apologize for putting you in a situation that may have been uncomfortable, and I want you to know I’m here to help support you”? Is that worse? Do I give them time alone to process? Help! :(

    1. Hydrangea*

      Give them some time and schedule a follow up conversation that is focused on what you will both do differently during team interactions going forward. People have emotional reactions sometimes, and you have to be able to give them some amount of space to have them. If they’ve been feeling unvalued on the team, then it is reasonable for them to have an emotional reaction. Feeling unvalued is a predictor of burn out. You need to manage the team interactions in a way that allows space for everyone to feel valued.

      1. Worst Boss Ever?*

        Thank you for your thoughts! That’s my hope as well, I feel absolutely awful that anyone is feeling this way and I want to fix this.

    2. New Mom*

      Maybe unpopular opinion, but I don’t think you should apologize. Some people are really bad at taking feedback and that’s a problem that they need to work on. It shouldn’t create an environment where no one can disagree with them and their boss cannot pass on important information about how they can improve their job. It’s super awkward when someone gets emotional at work, but don’t let that manipulate you into feeling like you need to hold back being a manager.
      From what you wrote, it doesn’t sound like you were unnecessarily cruel. You were relaying an issue that you, as a manager, as seeing in the team dynamic. And honestly, their reaction to you just solidifies what you said. If they disengage or get upset to the point of needing to end a conversation when they are not agreed with, that is something that they absolutely need to work on in a professional environment.
      I’ve had to manage interns and green employees the past few summers, and it’s been hard because a lot of them don’t handle feedback well and it makes the conversations awkward for everyone.

      1. ferrina*

        Agree with New Mom. You should not apologize.

        It sounds like you didn’t do anything wrong, handled a difficult subject as well as possible, and the employee cried because, well, it was a difficult conversation and sometimes people cry in difficult conversations. That’s not bad or means that you messed up by having the conversation- it just means that conversation was difficult. If you apologize, it will sound like you erred in having the conversation (which is not the case at all!) or it will reopen a conversation that the employee may just want to have done with.

        Give the person some space to think about the feedback and process it. Watch them for a couple weeks and see if they change their behavior. If they do change, pull them aside and praise them (which may be awkward too, but it’s still good to recognize that they listened and responded to the feedback).

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Agreed! Earlier in my life/career I had several episodes of what I call the doldrums — not Depression, but not great either. Anyway, it makes me worse at my job and I know it, so more than once when a boss told me I wasn’t doing great, I just lost it. Which was a nightmare all the way around! I’m so glad no one ever apologized for it!

    3. Texan In Exile*

      I went to a training where I played the employee and a co-worker was the boss giving (even, objective, actionable) feedback.

      I turned on the tears to see if I could rattle him but he just kept going. He didn’t even flinch. I was really impressed.

    4. Nesprin*

      If someone starts crying, stop the meeting+ reschedule.
      Once the tears start, there’s little chance they’re still receptive.

  63. Starchy*

    I have the opportunity to be on a committee dedicated to improving our workplace culture. From what I have seen so far they have taken prior committees recommendations and implemented them. There has been a big push to improve communication, transparency and collaboration. They already do remote work with lots of flexibility, gift cards, stipends etc. Any ideas on how we could make a good company really great?

    1. New Mom*

      Does your company offer anonymous employee satisfaction surveys? Ours does that and then we get a clearer look into what people value and/or dislike about the org.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      You gotta ask people. This is going to be different by company, area, industry, employee group. Ask them what they need or want.

      Also don’t go into it assuming things are all good. Fixing the bad is always a bigger improvement than adding new good things, and you don’t know that your experience is universal. Be open to hearing negative feedback.

      1. ferrina*

        Yep. Eldritch Office Worker is 100% right- you need to talk to people.

        First, see what your baseline is. Are people generally happy? Unhappy? Want to be happy but are secretly on edge and not really sure why?

        Then listen to their feedback and experiences. Really listen. Some of what they say may surprise you (some may not). Let the conversation go where it’s going to go. It may do that you are doing great, and people don’t really need more. It may be that there are serious underlying conditions that need to be addressed. Only way to know is to listen.

    3. ErinB*

      I was on a similar committee at my workplace. I’m not sure how big your organization is, but something that has worked well at our firm is allowing smaller teams/departments to implement initiatives or plan collaboration/social events specific to that team/department.

      For example, rather than trying to plan bagels for the entire firm once a month, the X Department plans (and expenses) their own breakfast every third Thursday. This way the teams are able to ask for (and have!) things that are useful and logistically feasible for just those employees.

      This worked for a variety of reasons – one of which is that people felt genuinely heard and respected (“this thing is helping my team on a daily basis” as opposed to “what we really need is more support staff and instead I’ve been given a plush desk toy and a free coffee”) and also it was SO much easier to allot funding for smaller, discrete initiatives than to roll something out across the entire board.

  64. New Mom*

    I work in a niche field and I am one of two people that do my specific role at an organization with 400+ people. There is a membership organization that people in my specific line of work can join that was such a game changer. I didn’t know about the membership organization for the first 18 months in the role, and really struggled when new state/federal policies came through that impacted my work (this is common) or I had a question that the one other person at my organization didn’t know the answer to.
    After I found this membership organization, I’ve learned so much, the members are so eager to help others, it’s a great community and I’ve gained great professional development. I meet a lot of people like me, who are the sole niche person at their organization and I always recommend this membership organization. I’ve given the org shout-outs in Op-Eds that I’ve written and even on a podcast I was interviewed for. Now here’s my question:
    I was not an employee for this organization so I never felt conflicted about recommending them to others, I was just a happy customer sharing a great org. Well, they have now hired me to do a very, very part-time role which is exciting but… I still want to recommend this org to people because it is seriously so helpful, but I can no longer say, “I don’t work for them, they are just the best and you should join!” How should I phrase it going forward? I think for anyone in my type of role, whose company is willing to pay the membership fee, would greatly benefit from joining. We’re in a field where mistakes can have high consequences as it involves money for vulnerable people, so having a network to help is essential.

    1. Raw Flour*

      “Full disclosure, I do occasional part-time work for this organization as of [month], but I have had a positive relationship with them for years. I highly recommend joining!”

    2. MJ*

      “I think (company) is great and have been recommending them since (whenever you found out about them). I recently got the opportunity to do some part time work with them (which has only improved my view of them).”

  65. PTO policy*

    Curious to hear everyone’s opinion on this PTO policy at my company:

    We accrue 14 hours per month, starting 2 weeks after our start date. If time off is needed before the PTO is accrued, we can “borrow” it and can go into the negative up to 40 hours. And it can be taken in 1-hour increments. This includes sick time and personal time. The only separate “bank” is bereavement. (This is not the full list – there may be other things that I’m not sure are relevant but ofr sake of keeping this concise).

    At my last job, you began to accrue 3 hours every two weeks and could only take it in 4 or 8 hour increments (aka half day or full day). So 1 full day = took weeks to accrue. And the accrual began after 90 days of employment. At one point, everything was in one bank, but eventually they switched payroll systems and began to separate out sick vs PTO/vacation vs bereavement. Everyone also got bonus time off in addition to pay raises. If you exhausted all your PTO, you would get paid less for that period.

    1. ThatGirl*

      I’m not sure what you’re asking – do you think it’s good? bad? 21 days per year (which is what 14 hrs/month works out to) is pretty good – that’s 4 weeks. People have mixed feelings on separating sick time from PTO, though.

      Personally, my current company doesn’t formally track sick time and we have enough flexibility to take an hour or two here and there without using PTO. But I don’t think that’s a BAD way to go, necessarily.

      1. PTO policy*

        Just ppls opinions on it and what the norm is I guess?

        I think 14 hours per month is pretty good but now I’m not so sure about how it’s all one bank.

    2. Maggie*

      The new ones seems good/generous to me? It’s essentially a full month of PTO per year and they allow you to go negative if you need it. It’s better than anything I’ve ever had. I accrue about 9 hours per month or something, I get 15 days a year

    3. L. Ron Jeremy*

      Not an answer, but what awesome amount of PTO. I’ve never heard of a company that has 4 weeks PTO to start.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        It includes sick though. I’ve had many jobs that started with 2 weeks vacation and 2 weeks sick per year. That’s equivalent.

        1. River Home*

          Maybe. It depends on whether you can use the sick time for vacation, and whether any of the time rolls over.

      2. Elle Woods*

        A company I’m interviewing with right now gives you 20 days of PTO for years 0-4 and you can purchase an additional six days if you wish. They also have seven set holidays and two “personal choice” holidays for all employees. Very generous.

    4. Hydrangea*

      That’s more PTO than I have ever had, and I’ve had comparatively good PTO banks.

      What’s your option on it?

    5. Lucy P*

      I get 10 days per year and that’s combined sick leave and personal. You can accumulate up to 20 days before it gets taken away. We’re allowed to go up to 2 days in the hole depending on circumstances. The last part is unwritten

  66. Junior Dev*

    Tips for redirecting a ranting boss back on topic? Whatever piece of functionality we are discussing on the website, he will get on a tangent about how angry he is that the website is slow, the page size is too big, etc. he’s really dramatic and rude about it, saying stuff like “this offends me to the core of my being” about the user experience being bad.

    It’s gotten to the point where I spend every meeting with him on edge and can’t concentrate on the substance of what he’s saying, which is often important for technical implementation. I have one friend on my team who will probably work with me to mitigate this if I ask.

    Sometimes it’s officially scheduled meetings where someone can write an agenda, sometimes it’s an impromptu call or conference call. All of this is taking place on Microsoft Teams.

    The site being slow is a real issue but the causes aren’t necessarily what he thinks they are; various teams are putting in efforts to holistically improve their own section of the site. Some of the ideas he thinks will fix things are ideas that have been tried and have made things worse, but it’s hard to say that when this commentary is happening as a derailment from some other important topic.

    (“Just quit” is not useful advice for reasons I don’t want to spend time justifying. I really need practical tips for getting things back on track, for at least the next few months.)

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      “I know, it’s frustrating, let’s get back to – ”

      I do this constantly with my bosses

      1. Junior Dev*

        This is great phrasing! It’s intimidating because he gets so bombastic but if my coworker and I can cut him off early on it could probably help.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          It’s less intimidating once you do it a couple times. Cut him off early, sound politely bored (not dismissive, just a ‘yes, I agree, next item’ tone), and do it repeatedly – most likely the frequency of his rants will go down and he consciously or unconsciously realizes you’re doing it. He probably doesn’t mean to derail, bombastic people just get bombastic.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Has he really looked at the $ of this?

      A lot of the time, the easiest and most straightforward way to fix web system performance is to throw hardware at it. Hardware is cheap, labor is expensive. (I know about the various edge cases that make hardware scaling not practical, but those are truly edge cases and I’m assuming that your problem is not one of them).

      The cost of a 10-person meeting for 2 hours a week is probably $100k/year in labor. You can get some really beefy AWS servers for that, and save your labor for more important things.

      1. Junior Dev*

        A lot of the concern about slowness involves users being on old computers and slow connections so that only helps so much.

        More to the point though, if we’re going to address this problem it has to be through an overall process that’s well planned and supported through data. I don’t want to be the one to take that on. I’m a contractor and I don’t want to get overly invested in this company, or take on projects outside my own team. I’m sure there are many ways we could handle this more effectively as a company but I don’t want to focus on that, I want to get meetings back on track.

        Maybe there’s a fundamental disconnect here. I don’t like or respect him enough to want to address this problem as a whole. I’ve tried to suggest solutions before and he’s shut me down and lectured me about how (his incorrect understanding of) my proposed solution won’t work. I just want him to stop ranting about it when I’m trying to figure out some other piece of info.

        I didn’t go into this in the original comment but I’ve got 4 months left on my contract and probably won’t renew, and this guy is 90% of the reason. So I’m really only trying to make the next 4 months tolerable for me.

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Ah. Yeah if he’s that way then there’s not much you can do by appeal to logic.

          The only other advice I can give is my standby about using your inner David Attenborough voice. Put yourself at a mental distance and pretend you’re a biologist or anthrologist – “Here we see the incompetent IT manager in his native habitat. His loud wailing is a way to distract the predators in upper management before they can strike at his annual budget.”

    3. Banana*

      How are you documenting the defects he’s talking about and your efforts to mitigate them?

      In the meetings I participate in like this, we work on written documentation of next steps, decisions, etc as we go. Having people work with you on how to word their observations in writing helps head off some of the really flowery postulating. “This offends you to the core of your being…so I think you’re saying it’s a level 1 criticality? Is that right? Does this have to be fixed before deployment then?” Having a concrete list of defects to get through but focusing on one at a time helps keep the conversation structured. And the documentation covers root causes and previous fix attempts, so there is no speculation on the cause and no revisiting old fixes, because those things are there in black and white. We have clearly defined standards for what terms mean (For example, Criticality 1 has a specific definition, the problem has to meet criteria for impact for us to use that status, and there’s standard priorities and communication protocols connected to it.)

      If we didn’t already have that in place, I’d start by creating a template, either in a shared One Note file or Excel, and put all your known defects in there, and start collecting the documentation and using it as the structure for discussions going forward.

  67. janitorx*

    A week ago I posted about a problem employee who has been failing on the job for over two years, and there has been continual resistance from this person to receive feedback and improve. This person is basically a lifer who has been passed around through the organization because it wasn’t the “right fit”. This person knew that we were going to deliver their evaluation this month and the latest is that this person has been approved for FMLA leave for up to a year. This prevents me from delivering the evaluation and PIP, and holds up business operations in my division. I cannot help but think that this is a swerve to forestall the inevitable. People like this ruin FMLA for everyone. I’m so disgusted.

    1. Chestnut Mare*

      This situation can’t “ruin” FMLA. FMLA is the law. It allows an employee to take up to 12 weeks per calendar year in order to care for their own or an eligible family member’s medical care. If your company is allowing them to take more time that 12 weeks, that’s a voluntary choice. For whatever reason, your company is choosing to keep this person on board.

      1. janitorx*

        My organization is not choosing to keep this person on board–the university does not want to be sued. I forgot to mention that this person knows that I have a parent in hospice and that if I have to be gone, then the division will have serious problems. This was carefully orchestrated and was clearly a stall tactic to delay the PIP. It was intentional and I have no recourse. Yes, this person is ruining it for other people in my organization in the sense that even though it is the law, no one would take it seriously. This happened where I worked before–one person abused FMLA leave, and others with legitimate needs and out on FMLA still had to field work. It erodes trust.

        1. ferrina*

          It’s an awful situation, but saying that one person is “ruining” FMLA is giving that person way too much power. One bad actor doesn’t ruin an overall positive policy. It’s not one person abusing the system- it’s also about how others react to that person. When others have a knee-jerk reaction (stressful situations don’t bring out the best in any of us), it makes others scared- what if I have to use FMLA and am inconvenient? Will I get that same reaction?
          If the people around the bad actor are thoughtful, deliberate and embrace nuances, it shows how they will react to other situations. “This is really tricky- I want to make sure that everyone gets the healthcare that they need and deserve. I also need to be out and the company currently can’t absorb that. How are we going to address this?”

        2. Chestnut Mare*

          If someone is on FMLA and is still expected to work, that is illegal and that’s what your organization should be concerned about from a legal standpoint.

          FMLA requires documentation from medical providers; it’s not simply approved by an organization. It only protects a position for 12 weeks within a calendar year; if an employee can’t return to the function of their job after that point, they can be legally terminated.

          If your organization doesn’t want to be sued, that’s on them. If they had good documentation, they’d likely prevail, and the employee would have a difficult time finding an attorney willing to take the case. If your division suffers because you’re both on approved FMLA leave, that’s also a problem your organization needs to solve.

          I imagine that it’s very frustrating that this employee seems to be gaming the system to avoid the consequences of their poor work, but your organization is allowing it to happen. That’s where your anger should be directed.

          1. janitorx*

            These are excellent points! I have 8 months of documentation, but because we are a public institution and a severance is involved, they want to be extra careful–or at least that is what they tell me. Meanwhile, I’m overworked and I’ve been doing 40% of this person’s job for about 2 years! I’ve been vocal about performance issues for about a year but was told to give it more time and retrain. I have no idea what they thought I’d be able to do with this person who has been passed around the organization, and now cannot be transferred anywhere else. There is no way this employee would win a lawsuit, so it seems like a lame excuse. I kinda feel exploited.

            1. Chestnut Mare*

              It sounds like you are exploited, so your frustration is understandable.

              Many organizations are fearful of being sued, but they don’t realize that they can be sued for almost anything – it’s the outcome of the suit that’s important. It’s also why good management is essential. Also, lots of employees threaten to sue, but it seldom happens. (Which sucks when they have good reason to.)

              You can’t fix these issues for your organization, so focus on taking care of yourself and your family. Use your FMLA leave and let your leadership deal with the fallout.

              1. janitorx*

                Right, the outcome is what matters, and HR is being too cautious–there is no way there would be a judgment in this person’s favor. I can’t even be gone now for a few hours–I have no backup and everything we do is time sensitive. And that is precisely why this person went on FMLA leave to retaliate against a bad evaluation and to personally ensure that I cannot tend to my family. I know it sounds crazy, but this person has done some outrageous things long before I showed up here.

                1. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

                  Here’s the thing: you can still be gone for a few hours, and even longer. You have a good, documented reason to be gone, and you should go do that!

                  Yes, you being gone will break things at work, but that is what happens when the people above you don’t manage their shit and let things get like this, with a single load-bearing person who is not given the time and space to also be a human.

                  (Yes, you’ll probably have to clean up the resulting mess later, because most dysfunctional jobs are like that, but go ahead and let everything be a giant mess now so you can spend time with someone in hospice. Maybe you’ll get lucky and work will find someone to fix at least some of it while you’re gone. Be gone as long as possible so they’re motivated to try.)

                2. Manchmal*

                  I think you have internalized the interests of the institution too much. If you need time off and are entitled to it, that becomes your boss’s job to arrange it. What if you got hit by a buss tomorrow and had an extended hospitalization? Someone would have to figure it out. I would tramway your family needs with that kind of non-negotiable attitude. Yes you will be more involved in the solution but it’s not tenable for you to be doing two jobs. Can the dept hire a temp, can they borrow someone from another unit? It’s likely beyond your purview to figure out but you should apply for fmla and appeal to your boss to help figure things out.

    2. Qwerty*

      I think your anger is misdirected.

      2yrs is a long time to be failing a job before getting to a PIP. AAM had a good post this week (“I’m about to inherit a bad employee who’s a jerk to our good employee”) that describes a similar situation and explains why waiting too long sets you up for situations like this.

      If your org had acted stronger earlier, then the employee would already be gone. I can’t tell if the passing around through the org has been for 2yrs or longer, but they should have PIP’ed them on their last team rather than passing a failing employee over to a new team repeatedly.

      Take a breather. When the initial anger has passed, remember that FMLA requires a doctor sign off and doesn’t come out of nowhere. Do not start questioning people’s health! Someone can suck as employee and also have health problems. Or there could be underlying health issue that is impacting their work – see the post today or yesterday about the intern struggling with mental health and realizing they need to talk to their manager.

      Do not let this incident “ruin FMLA for everyone” It will only do so if you as a manager let it and feed into it.

    3. Roland*

      They can be a bad worker and also have legitimate health needs that require leave. It’s on management at your company that someone who “had been failing on the job for over two years” is still there. It sounds like you’re in an unfortunate spot and that sucks! But please resist the urge to place the blame on FMLA and the people who use it (even if you don’t like them) and instead place the blame on your ineffectual management.

  68. Anon in Midwest*

    Caregiver leave question. Do any of you have experience with your company’s caregiver leave? Was it paid or unpaid (US)?

    My husband had cancer earlier this year (luckily a very treatable kind, testicular), and I wanted to take caregiver leave for a little over a month to help during treatment, but my company only offered it unpaid. I wasn’t ultimately able to take it because of the financial strain it would have caused.

    Seems pretty inhumane and I see there are several states where paid leave is required in this case. Do companies located in those states actually follow that policy?

    1. Picard*

      My experience is that “most” companies do exactly whats required by law – no less and no more. If you live in a state that offers paid Family Medical Leave, your HR department is surely well versed in it and can answer any questions.

      Otherwise, if all you can access is FMLA, then yes sadly that it unpaid. “All” it does it guarantee your job (or equivalent) back if you need to take time off for medical/caregiving purposes.

    2. Massive Dynamic*

      CA here, and I’ve seen caregiver leave (CA Paid Family Leave) in action. It’s the law and it’s paid for (up to 8 weeks). I’m glad to hear your husband is on the mend and sorry you didn’t have anything like this available to you!

      Blue votes matter, everyone! Vote your interests and your family’s interests in the next election.

  69. Klee*

    I have a question to throw out there for a situation that occurred at a previous workplace. For those who are neurodivergent, sometimes their traits are misconstrued unprofessional or rude when looked at without context. Ex: Time blindness, occasional lack of attention to detail, different communication style (specifically with my department’s client base and line of work, these traits tend to be more important than for the rest of the company.) Supposing a manager doesn’t know about their direct report’s neurodivergence and the employee wants to keep it that way, how can a manager be more supportive of their

    1. Klee*

      Oops, accidentally removed my last few words. It should be, “How can a manager be more supportive of their employee?”

      1. Hydrangea*

        One way to frame it is that a number of ND traits are common in NT people. So there should be a larger picture of understanding different communication styles and ways of working and of giving support and not rushing to judgement regardless of whether someone has a diagnosis or not (and without shouting about ADA bc seriously, it shouldn’t take a lawyer to extend understanding).

        1. Klee*

          Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like in more concrete terms?

          If it helps providing a more specific example, in the situation at my previous workplace, one of my coworkers had to meet with a client but because of some disorganization and time management issues (which stem from her ADHD), she missed a deadline that had some pretty serious financial impacts on the client (who was already a vulnerable member of the community that couldn’t afford to pay those penalties). My coworker didn’t want to tell the manager that she had ADHD, so from the manager’s perspective, it just looks like he’s providing feedback to her about how she needs to improve in XYZ, but not seeing any actual changes. I think the structure/tips the manager was willing to provide made sense within the context of our line of business for a NT person, but not necessarily with a ND person. How can we navigate around that better?

          1. Michelle Smith*

            ADHD is something I deal with. It is an explanation, not an excuse. There are coping mechanisms that need to be adjusted on a regular basis to make sure they are still working. Mistakes will still happen, but they should be few and far between. Things that help me?
            – Extremely strict calendar maintenance. If something is scheduled, I have to put it in my calendar right then, no matter how inconvenient it is to take the time to do it. If you schedule things while speaking to her, have her put them in her calendar right then while you’re talking, and give her the time and space to do so so that it’s not awkward. Writing it on paper is not good enough. It needs to go into the electronic calendar on her phone that syncs with her computer.
            – Use Outlook or Google reminders. For every event always. It it’s on my calendar, but my computer and phone don’t ding me 5 minutes before to remind me to switch tasks, I will forget meetings. I was so embarrassed when I was supposed to be hosting a meeting with external folks and I forgot about it until my boss texted me!! Reminders, reminders, reminders.
            – Have regular check-ins. I meet with my boss every week and I have to supply an agenda 24 hours in advance. It covers the status of all my projects and it’s my time to update her and talk about anything we need to discuss. I also have to prepare a document once a month that details the broad strokes of the projects I have in the pipeline and what I’ve gotten accomplished in the past 30 days. Doing the preparation for these meetings helps me make sure I am staying on track and gives my boss an opportunity to catch, early and often, if something I should be doing has slipped off my plate inadvertently.
            – Encourage her on the things she’s doing right. Anxiety and depression can go hand in hand with ADHD and different people handle stress differently just in general. The last thing you want is the employee to disengage because all they get is feedback about what they’re doing wrong. If they get something right, praise them. Especially if you see them trying to use a coping mechanism to keep their deadlines on track.
            – Finally, if you have the resources to have external support (like from a project manager or someone whose role it is to make sure deadlines are met) use that support to help keep her on track.

          2. ecnaseener*

            Michelle’s suggestions are all great, but every ADHDer is different, there’s no strategy that works for all of us. It’s not like if the manager had known about your coworker’s ADHD they would’ve been able to suggest a magic coping mechanism guaranteed to fix the problem.

            I would’ve told your coworker to express that time management is difficult for her and that she’s trying some different strategies, if that wasn’t apparent. But I wouldn’t tell her to disclose ADHD unless she had specific accommodations to request (and there aren’t many reasonable accommodations for this type of problem). It’s risky, and it’s not necessary – the part the manager needs to know is that she is trying, she knows it’s a problem, she’s not just ignoring the feedback.

    2. Irish Teacher*

      I think one can be aware of a person’s needs without knowing whether or not they have a diagnosis and if so, what it is. I have not been diagnosed with anything (and wouldn’t really meet the criteria for a diagnosis of autism, though I definitely have traits) but my colleagues have been awesome about recognising what my strengths and weaknesses are and responding to them without needing to know if they are a result of neurodivergence.

      One of the main things for me is clear instruction. This does not mean micromanagement; in fact, I like being left to do my own thing and have researched and introduced subjects to our school. But our old SENCO gave me the documentation on the new subjects available and said, “Irish Teacher. I think these would be a good thing for you to work on. See which of these would work with our students” and then suggested I try one out with a particular student, who I had individually for resource, before we introduce them on a larger scale. Had she said, “Irish Teacher, I want you to research these as something we might introduce in the future” and left it unclear as to whether she wanted me to report back to her or to choose one to teach to a group or what, I wouldn’t have handled it so well. Yeah, I realise that would be bad management anyway, but a lot of people seem to assume it’s obvious what they want and don’t say it.

      Most people are also aware I don’t handle crowded events so well and tend to keep an eye out for me at staff parties, etc and suggest, “hey, Irish Teacher, there’s a group of colleagues sitting in that quiet corner if you want to go and join them”. In one case, when I completely froze (at a wine bar during a staff party, where the “rules” weren’t clear), they simply ordered for me. Without making a big deal of it.

      The teacher of our autism class actively encouraged me to borrow the fidget toys there when I was “ooh, cool.” I fidget a lot.

      The issues you mentioned below sound more difficult than these though.

    3. ferrina*

      It depends on the needs of the job. Time blindness is a serious issue in a role that requires strict deadlines. Lack of attention to detail (if unchecked) is deeply problematic if you are working with regulated medication or other roles where details are crucial.

      I agree with Michelle Smith- ND is an explanation, not an excuse. I have ADHD and work in an industry with tight timelines and lots of details. I have a ton of strategies for handling that. Occassionally my ADHD will flare up and I’ll have a bad week, but then it’s on me to find a new way of treating my ADHD (usually as simple as turning on a CD to help focus)- not on my boss. Your boss cannot manager your health condition.

      A manager can only address the impact and suggest strategies to try (if they actually have things that may be useful). I supervised someone with ADHD who did not have successful strategies for her timeblindness. I didn’t address the ADHD- I’m not her doctor. I never even said “ADHD”. Instead, I told her that being consistently late on deadlines was a problem and couldn’t continue. I suggested a few techniques that I’ve used (without mentioning my own ADHD). These are techniques I’d suggest to any one that was struggling with deadlines- things like Pomodero. I set goals and check-ins (similar to a PIP) for the results I needed to see. Then she tried the techniques on her own (I never asked or did a follow up, but unprompted she told me one of the techniques really worked for her). She got much better at deadlines and began hitting standards- but again, she needed to figure out how to address her symptoms, not me.

    4. RagingADHD*

      Whose perspective are you coming from? For a manager, I would tell them not to assume anything, address the changed outcome that needs to happen, and ask the employee if there’s anything they can do to make it easier to get those results.

      For the employee, they’d identify some specific things the manager could do, enable, or give permission for. Then open a conversation with the manager about “I see a pattern where X situation seems to always lead to Y undesirable result. I think it might work better if I did Z instead. Do you think that could work, and would you be willing to do/enable/give permission for it?”

  70. Paperwhite*

    I’m going to be jobhunting soon and hopefully following Alison’s advice will gain me some interviews.

    There’s a part of the interview I never really know what to do with — the Office Tour. It doesn’t feel like there’s much to say beyond, “oh yes you have an office here, it is an office indeed” and maybe comment on how well the office fits the industry. (I’m an admin so my skills go across industries). How can I better use the Office Tour to learn about the office and to show myself off to them?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      The Office Tour is when I ask the questions about office culture, hours, etc. It’s also when I try to see how well stocked the kitchen & office supplies are, which are clues about whether the company is tight-fisted or not.

      And it never hurts to make a good first impression with people who might be your future coworkers.

    2. Lady_Lessa*

      Look to see if people have personal items in their area, and if the work areas seem personalized. One place I interviewed was very process driven and they even had numbers for morale. The work areas, even the desks were pretty impersonal.

      (We agree at the end of the interview, that I wasn’t a good fit).

  71. Ruby Julian-Lee*

    My workplace has been very insistent on everyone completing a workplace satisfaction survey that asks what it can do to make sure that I “bring my authentic self to work.” Is this a thing? I find this question absolutely puzzling (and unsettlingly intrusive) because I bring my professional self to work: my authentic self would rather be at home!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It’s a thing. “Whole self”, “authentic self”, etc.

      I think the motivation is that companies think that workers have to put on a false front, or to hide their home lives, and they want them to feel more comfortable (often DEI plays into this.)

      But to me, an introverted engineer, it comes off just as weird and intrusive as it does to you.

      1. Ruby Julian-Lee*

        So does mine! And mine also likes to wear a fluffy robe and spend the mornings drinking coffee on the sofa with the dogs. I don’t think that would fly in the office.

    3. Sabine the Very Mean*

      Yep it’s a thing and when my workplace sent it out, I responded quite cooly and snarkily. “I have no idea what this means and I’m not interested in muddying the waters between my personal and professional life. This is inappropriate. Please just ask us what we need from you to do our jobs better.”

    4. Michelle Smith*

      What’s in the survey though? Sure we all have a professional vs. private persona, but there is a difference between not being able to watch TV all day at work and swear loudly in meetings and feeling like you have to hide your partner’s gender identity for fear of reprisal from a bigoted staff member.

      1. Ruby Julian-Lee*

        Most of the survey asks questions about things like what’s our level of confidence in various heads of departments, how do we rate our working satisfaction, would we recommend it as a place to work to friends, the usual sort of stuff, and there’s a spot for comments to expand on the various scales of satisfaction/displeasure chosen. The deep dive into touchy-feely stuff about authentic self does not come until the end of the survey.

        I answered it similar to one of the commentors above, saying that I am always professional at work and my authentic self is part of my private life, and it will stay that way.

    5. ecnaseener*

      I would just respond something like “no concerns, I’m already comfortable being myself at work.” (They can interpret that as your ~*~authentic~*~ self if they want, you’re referring to your professional self.) You could even add “our culture is great because there’s no pressure to act a certain way, and I wouldn’t want that to change, a push to be more authentic would make me less comfortable”

      1. Ruby Julian-Lee*

        That is a great answer. The survey hasn’t changed at all in the past couple of years, so I will remember that answer and use it next time. It really does make me feel uncomfortable with the push to be “more authentic” at work.

    6. Fabulous*

      This language may be a DEI thing. Are they pushing DEI as a goal this year or something? I just read oodles of articles for work that referenced DEI policies should strive to allow employees to feel comfortable bringing their “authentic self” to work 100% of the time.

      1. Ruby Julian-Lee*

        Yes, DEI gets talked about all the time, although as a department we are very diverse, much more so than the local population by far.

    7. KoiFeeder*

      Regarding bringing an authentic self to work, I look to the words of my good friend Bartleby: I would prefer not to.

    8. Nesprin*

      As someone else put it- it’s cargo cult management.

      Strong teams with good workplace cultures allow a diverse workforce of people to be themselves. Thus (the backwards thinking go) if you want to make a strong team with good culture, you make your team be themselves.

      (this is opposed to ensuring that the workplace is safe and welcoming to people from all walks of life)

    9. fhqwhgads*

      The best possible reading on the “authentic self” business means “if I am a minority/have a disability/am in any way different from the majority of staff, I don’t feel like I have to hide that to be safe at work.” In other words, if you’re Jewish, you don’t need to keep that to yourself for fear of coworkers trying to convert you. If you’re LGBTQ+ you don’t need to be closeted for fear you’ll lose opportunities. No one is going to call you “not a team player” for not participating in some super athletic team-building activity that didn’t take into account physical limitations people might have. etc None of that means you have to discuss any such aspects of yourself at work or with coworkers, just that you’re not actively afraid/worried about what would happen if you did.
      In the worst hands, the “authentic self” business means “we’re about to force everyone to overshare and make everyone uncomfortable because we don’t understand DEAI at all”.

  72. Banana*

    My workplace had a system disaster yesterday, and I was in the middle of it, directing people on what we needed to do differently. We are a $1.4 billion company, I am (by title) an entry level manager. I waited two hours for someone else to step up and make a game plan, and no one did it. I wrote a game plan and ran it by the 3 directors whose area was affected and then sent it out and coordinated everything. But my boss doesn’t want to promote me or give me a raise, LMAO.

    1. Roy G. Biv*

      I think you need to add “Free lance recoverer of systems on the brink of disaster” on your resume and start shopping. It is appalling to think there is a 1 billion+ company that does not have a big book of contingency plans.

      1. Banana*

        We have one (that I helped write), but yesterday’s situation was a hybrid of two of the possible scenarios in it, and no one knew what to do with the two of them combined.

        I’m already shopping for sure!

    2. Michelle Smith*

      This seems like a great anecdote to record and practice retelling in your external interviews!

    3. Nesprin*

      Please come back in 6mo and tell us about how this anecdote won your next interview for your new shiny job with 3x the salary.

  73. mom to be*

    If you’re in a major metropolitan area, how early do you hire a (part-time) nanny? I’m pregnant, but due to careful planning and a bit of luck, we won’t need a nanny for about a year. (Husband is a teacher and I can split my leave, so we’ll take turns with full-time childcare since he’s free over the summer.) I’m torn–on the one hand we’d ideally want someone with skill in a particular (not terribly common) language, on the other hand I’m not sure if a potential part-timer would want to make a commitment 12 months out. It would be 3 days a week. TIA!

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      If you’re hiring part time, they are more than likely going to be filling gaps in their other jobs with your part time hours to make full time wages. (Like a overnight nanny who picks up afternoons at another house). So you likely won’t have much luck too far out, they won’t know their schedules yet.

      If you do find a person who only wants part time work they might be scheduling further out (ie know current job ends when kid enters full time school), but that’s a more rare situation.

      I’d start looking 6 months out casually, but expect to be actively looking no earlier than 3 months out.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      We hired a part time nanny right at the end of both of our leaves. It only took two weeks of looking. My understanding is our ease in finding someone who was a good fit, whose availability matched what we wanted, and who was genuinely looking for the hours we wanted is not at all the norm. It just happened to work out.
      All the people we interviewed has their most recent position end/ending very recently. As far back as a month and as soon as a week after the interview. All the nannies were looking for a new role either because the family they worked for moved out of state, or the kid was old enough to go to school now.
      While it might take you a few months to find someone, just from churning through the pool of applicants and finding someone who fits, I very much doubt anyone would be trying to line up their next job more than a month or two in advance.

    3. Annoy mouse*

      You can ask around if you have friends whose kids are starting elementary schools if they have a nanny who will be looking for a new position.

    4. Foley*

      We hired one in LA. It took a week. (But that was for interviews. There was a lot of availability).

      Look for someone already working for another family only part-time. We had two/three days per week and the other family had the same three/two. I never met the other family in our case, but there are families I know who split time formally. (So they hired someone full-time and handled pay/benefits as a unit so it was seamless to the nanny).

      FYI this was all before Covid, and the 2d language we wanted is common. The esoteric (3d) language we did with a tutor (which was way more challenging to find than a nanny share – though in that case the local embassy/consulate was of great help).

      Although now that I think of it, maybe start with the local consulate? In our case, they had a lot of interesting resources that I wouldn’t have considered. I only hired the tutor a couple of years later when my kid’s other language fell behind when we weren’t there. (And we did pay the nanny while we traveled and she stayed here).

  74. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

    I work at what is essentially a varsity-level contact center, where I occasionally correspond with my clients. People will often get my contact information when solving a problem, then e-mail me several months later with, “Hi, I have a two-hour project for you that I need done immediately with top priority.”

    What’s a graceful way to say, “I realize e-mail is more convenient for you, but calls get priority here, so if you need something time-sensitive done, please call us, but don’t use my extension. I swear on my life, we are all incredibly competent people and if you go to voicemail (and you WILL go to voicemail) it will add an extra day at least to getting this processed.”? I canNOT get my clients to listen to me when I say this in a gentle way, and anything more firm sounds like I’m passing the buck rather than trying to get them taken care of…

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      “We care about information security here. The only way I can get access to your personal details and our past work is if you go through the main phone number.”

      or

      “I appreciate that you think I did a great job for you before and want to personally request me again, but I’m afraid that’s against company policy.”

      Might be little white lies, but should do the trick. Also, your management needs to do something to prevent the false expectations that your customers seem to be developing. Or maybe this is an opportunity for a much higher-$$ concierge rate.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Can you blame your bosses? Make it so you and client are same side, just having to deal with bosses silly policies. Might go down better than you vs client. Like “Hey client, just want to update you my bosses are really cracking down on scheduling. We absolutely must go through the official call number. I know it’s so annoying to not just email me but bosses eh what can you do”. Sometimes it seems like people respond better to “keep me from getting in trouble with my boss” than “you need to follow different policy”.

    3. Michelle Smith*

      Because of the way our department is structured, it is imperative that time-sensitive requests go through our phone line at (555) 123-4567 so they can be assigned to the first available analyst. Requests for same-day or next-day turnarounds that come directly to my email or voicemail may not be fulfilled because I have already been assigned other urgent matters that came through the phone line. Thank you for understanding.

  75. Anon for this...*

    Hired mid level person – not the best candidate but due to our location we really struggle to find staff. My hope was that, due to their experience, they would be able to perform high level analysis and review of ongoing projects. I determined they would need some training on Office systems and of course on our proprietary systems. (which they received)

    Sadly, they are not working out. They continue to make careless errors (basic sum functions in Excel not capturing all the rows, typing in the wrong numbers, etc), after 6+ months, they continue to need what I consider excess hand holding with our systems, and there is almost no analysis going on. They are an expensive number pusher. I have tried to explain to them the issues, I have been specific about problems/errors when encountered but this is really the first time I have had someone SO not CAPABLE of doing what I need them to do. I need some help with scripts on how to advise them that they’re just not working out. I don’t want to fire them but I truly don’t think they are capable of meeting expectations. Of course I feel terrible because they are older, with medical problems and I know they need the health insurance we pay for 100% for employees which makes this even tougher… sigh

    1. Michelle Smith*

      I’m not a manager so take my opinion with several truckloads of salt, but is this not the kind of thing that a performance improvement plan was made for? So this person has an opportunity to understand very clearly the expectations, is given a final time frame for meeting them, and then clear consequences to expect if they do not meet them within that time frame? Is this a large enough organization that HR would be involved in that process and might even be able to help facilitate the meeting in which this employee is put on the plan?

    2. ABK*

      This is what a PIP – performance improvement plan – is made for. Spell out in detail exactly what errors have been made, and exactly what improvements you need to see within the next 30 days in order for the employee to keep the job. Be factual and not emotional.
      They may surprise you and become capable if you are detailed and specific about what is required and what the consequences will be if the improvement is not made.

    3. Also Anon*

      I’ve been there all too recently. Same deal: Not living up to their past experience, careless errors, hand-holding, no high-level work, and just… more incapable of improvement on even basic things than I’d ever encountered. You will feel terrible, but it must be done. And it’s better for everyone. Alison has some really great posts in the archive that REALLY helped me get my head around it, get over feeling terrible, and develop some scripts.

      It sounds like you’ve addressed errors. Have you had the overarching, PIP-esque conversation that ends with: “I need to be clear that my concerns about this are serious ones. These things are critical to working in this role, and I need you to perform at a higher level for this job to be sustainable long-term”? If you haven’t, I would have one of those ASAP that sets out very clear expectations for improvements to see in X days (as others suggested). If you have set those expectations and they haven’t met them… It’s time.

      For the final talk, I riffed from Alison’s script in one of the posts: “This is a tough conversation to have. When we met several weeks ago, we discussed the fact that if you didn’t meet the benchmarks we laid out, we wouldn’t be able to keep you on. Unfortunately, although I know you have been trying, we’re now at that point and have decided to let you go. I know this is hard, and I want to do whatever I can to make it as easy as possible on you.”

      https://www.askamanager.org/2012/05/how-to-fire-an-employee.html

      And this post helped me when the person was well-meaning, and nice, and had some medical stuff in their life, but was still fundamentally not doing the work. Read the comments from people who’ve been the co-workers of the underperformer.
      https://www.askamanager.org/2013/02/how-to-fire-someone-for-mediocre-work-when-theyre-trying-hard.html

      Good luck. It’s no fun, but it’s better for everyone in the end.

  76. Gen Xhausted*

    I’m a middle manager on a team with a good culture, but employees are unhappy with their pay and the hybrid requirements. Every time I bring this to my boss, she goes on a gen Z rant. The 6 people I manage are in their late 20s through early 30s. Not Gen Z. Their concerns are legitimate, but she’s not taking them seriously as she sees them as a generational difference. I’ve corrected her and she knows they are millennials but said they have “Gen Z work ethic.” I’m at a loss. Any advice?

    1. Colette*

      I suggest you be honest with your team that you’ve raised the pay and hybrid requirements and they aren’t going to change. Yes, they’ll probably leave, but that might be what it takes to get through to your boss.

    2. Michelle Smith*

      Be transparent with your team. As Colette said, some of them will leave. But they will respect and appreciate your honesty and your advocacy.

      I had a boss once who fought tooth and nail for our team behind the scenes. It was hard to know how much she did for us though unless she explained it. And because I knew that she had our backs and was fighting for us to get better resources and support, I was happier despite my frustrations with upper management.

      That changed after she left and someone else was promoted to replace her. He had the mentality that nothing would ever change so why bother. I struggled to work for him, because I felt he didn’t take our concerns seriously and was unwilling to advocate for our team. Literally everyone on the team besides one person quit under him. Let your team know (1) what you are doing on their behalf to advocate for them (to the extent you can share with them) and (2) be honest about how realistic it is that they’ll see change. Let them know you’ll support them if they decide to leave (by giving them good recommendations and references) and let them know you hope they’ll stay. If there are other things that you *can* make happen to improve their quality of life, let them know you are willing and open to listen to their suggestions and take action.

    3. Green Smell*

      How far into the conversation are you getting before your boss starts the rant? I ask this because if my manager says they are going to bat for me and our team, then I’d expect the manager to shut down that type of conversation regarding “Gen Z”. If you believe your team deserves a raise and/or further discussion on hybrid requirements, then what does it matter how old they are? Would your boss say the same thing if your team is nearing 50…”those Gen Xers…” ? I appreciate and respect the manager that truly will represent their team.

    4. Nesprin*

      You say that Gen Z work ethic usually comes from Boomer back-in-the-day-payscale and butt-in-seat thinking.

    5. Please Mark This Confidential and Leave It Lying Around*

      GenX here, and once when a coworker started her “Millenial” rant I said, “You sound one hundred and twelve.” (She is ten years younger than me.) She was taken aback, and I hear a lot less “these kids today” nonsense out of her. I don’t know if your manager responds to that kind of thing but pointing out how OLD someone sounds when they start in on a younger generation might snap them out of it.

    6. TheraputicSarcasm*

      Come back at her with facts illustrating how well your team is doing and with information about what your competitors are offering. What’s the effect going to be on your company if they jump ship?

  77. Bippity Boppity Bummer*

    I’m having some major anxiety over work and hoping this great group could offer some advice/feedback. I’ve recently returned after a long-ish maternity leave to what feels like a whole different job. I was told I’d be “taking it easy” while I got back into the swing of things which has not happened, mostly because of the aforementioned changes to the scope of my position. My manager has barely been available, partially because of these changes, and partially because he tends to overbook himself, which has been frustrating. I’m also supposed to start going into the office soon on a hybrid model, but there’s no direction on when exactly because no one’s really sure how pumping’s going to be accommodated in the space (new space to us). I’d much prefer to continue to WFH, but that’s another story.

    Because of all of the above (the stress of which is starting to affect my supply negatively), I’ve been job hunting. I’m finding that I’m either too expensive for roles, overqualified, underqualified, or just not the right fit for whatever reason. It’s been a bummer and I’m having to readjust my expectations, and also wondering if I should just stick it out where I am, since I’m the breadwinner of the family.

    Adding to all of this, I recently spoke to an old colleague about how miserable I am with my new responsibilities, and he floated the idea of working for him on a contract basis, part-time, while I figure out what my next move is, which would allow for some downtime to soul-search and be with my baby. He’d also help me network and figure out what my next full-time gig would look like. I’d really, really, REALLY love to do this, but again, I’m the sole earner, and there’s a recession looming, and I guess I’m afraid I’ll never get a job again??? I’ve never had an opportunity like this before, but I’m worried this isn’t the time to take this risk. I’m just so anxiety-ridden and bummed (username/comment synergy ftw) and could use some outside perspective. Help me AAM-ers!

    1. Michelle Smith*

      I am not a good person to give advice on the contract role piece. But I was able to get an accommodation to work from home full time indefinitely even when everyone else at the office was required to return to full-time, in-person, not even slightly hybrid work. I would recommend you look up what is legally required in your area (federal, state, and local protections for pregnancy-related conditions, which in my area includes post-birth lactation needs) and then proactively approaching HR with a request for accommodations to continue working from home. I did my accommodations request through the ADA, which may not apply to you, but I did it *before* the work from home permissions were rescinded on advice of my boss. It took so much stress off my shoulders to know that whenever the inevitable change happened, I’d already done everything I needed to make sure I would still be able to comfortably do my job. I think you should do this even if you are not sure you’re going to stay in that job. It makes it so much less stressful, because you don’t know how long your job search will take (mine took 2 years!!) and you don’t want to be worried about not having the accommodations you need in the meantime. And get them in writing!

      1. Bippity Boppity Bummer*

        Oh interesting! Yes state and federal law would require a quiet, private space. I’ve been told there is a space, it would just be on a first come, first served basis, with no way to book in advance (necessary for pumping). I like the idea of going through the ADA and will look into this. Thank you so much!

    2. ArtificialDonut*

      I think it’s worth considering what sort of industry you work in to help put your worries into perspective – even with a recession, there are jobs that are always going to be present/necessary for the foreseeable future (think teacher, nurse, software developer, lawyer) And I mean, if you really want a job, there’s always going to be ways to find them, it just might be more difficult and a different sort of job than you expect (which could be a good thing).
      It’s also worth considering if this is a solid offer from a solid friend – you should absolutely have some more discussions with him to work out exactly what your contracting would look like. More information to make a decision certainly can’t hurt.
      I also totally want to second just not agreeing to the hybrid model. It’s a federal law that you have a quiet, clean, and private space for pumping, and I would make it absolutely clear that you’re not going to be coming to that new space until you have that space available. Just keep working from home until they’ve got that all sorted out, and you don’t have to be the one to help them sort it out (unless you’re part of HR or facilities, I guess).

      1. Bippity Boppity Bummer*

        All helpful points, thank you! I just got word that there is a general break room available, but that it can’t be booked, so not sure what I’m supposed to do if someone’s napping in there or something, but I’ll discuss this with HR and try to figure out accommodations from there.
        In terms of the contracting, I’ve never done that before so yes will have to have many a conversation on this. On that note, if anyone has resources on trying to figure out a consultant rate, I’d be grateful! I couldn’t find anything on AAM.
        Regarding the recession, I’m not in a recession-proof industry by any means, but I do have very transferable skills. Going to have to do some real research while the little one sleeps this weekend. Thank you again!

  78. A LinkedIn question*

    I’m wrapping up a doctoral program and looking for both academic and non-academic jobs. As one part of this, I need to get my LinkedIn working. I hate LinkedIn; it is the least intuitive and noisiest social media site. Do y’all have resources that you used to get from “disaster of a LinkedIn account” to “account that you’re not embarrassed by”?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Eliminate everything except past work/resume stuff. Forget skills and endorsements. Only post something in the blog-type areas that directly refer to you — the university PR announcement about you being a speaker at a conference, the abstracts to your published papers.

    2. Michelle Smith*

      I’m obsessed with LI. It’s my primary social media. There are so many resources available online for setting your profile up, so definitely google around and see what is recommended for your field. Some of the high level tips I can think of right now:
      – Customize your URL so it’s easier and cleaner to share
      – Don’t just list every title and workplace you’ve had. Be as critical about what you list as you would on your resume.
      – Make sure to actually flesh out the experience section, because that’s the first thing that recruiters look at and SO MANY PEOPLE don’t bother.
      – Use an actually descriptive headline so people want to click on your profile in the first place. Make sure it includes the job you’re actually trying to get and some useful information about you that will show up in keyword searches done by recruiters. “student at xyx uni” is not super helpful.
      – Put up a nice clean headshot (have someone take a photo on your phone in front of a neutral backdrop) and make sure the privacy settings are such that all LinkedIn users can see it. People don’t like connecting with a blank picture.
      – Write your about section like a normal person. Don’t talk about yourself in the third person. It’s weird. Give your backstory, explain why you’re passionate about your field and what your biggest accomplishments are, and then give a call to action (e.g. I welcome connections and InMails from others in the Widget Innovation field, including recruiters.).
      – A lot of the sections don’t matter as much. No one cares about Joe Random endorsing you for your writing skill, so just skip that. Recommendations aren’t that important either, unless you’re an entrepreneur trying to drum up clients.
      – Once you’ve got a basic profile set up, connect to your network. It is very easy to search LinkedIn for connections. They make it so you can quickly see suggested contacts from your university and prior workplaces. That’s why I suggest doing this after you have that information in your profile. If you know the person already, just send the connection request. You don’t have to personalize a message each time unless you just have that much free time.
      – Once you’ve added all the people you already know, start working on adding people you don’t know yet. LI has hashtags just like Twitter does. Follow some so you can get content relevant to you on your feed. React to people’s posts, comment on them, and follow or send connection requests to people whose content you want to see more of in your feed.
      – LI is a great networking tool, so also consider reaching out affirmatively to people who are where you want to be and see if they’re willing to connect with you and/or do an informational interview. If they don’t respond, don’t let that discourage you. Some people don’t check their LI very often, if ever.
      – LIST CONTACT INFORMATION. Because some people don’t check their LI often, some people might be hesitant to message you. Also, if they aren’t close enough in your network, they might have to pay to speak to you (ughhhh). Make sure to leave a way for people to reach out to you other places, like via email or Twitter.

      Good luck!!

      3. A LinkedIn question*

        Thank you! Worked through many of these suggestions and now I have a profile that’s at least not embarrassing.

  79. skipper*

    How do I get better at phone calls?

    I’m in a temp admin position at a church (as an escape from education, where I’ve been for most of my career thus far; I’m in my late 20s) and while 95% of the work comes really naturally to me, making phone calls does not. I can answer the phone and take messages/answer questions with no problem, but when I’m asked to make a call — say, to a custodial service or a priest at another church — I have a really hard time. I get it done, usually by writing out a script for myself and taking a lot of deep breaths, but I’d really like it to be less stressful. Any suggestions?

    1. Colette*

      It sounds like you’re doing the right things. Unfortunately, I think the biggest thing that will help is practice – it’ll get easier over time.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Hi My Name is Blank. I am calling from Organization. I’m trying to reach Person’s Name…..

      Pretend your an actor, and you are not skipper calling you are Beatrice the 3rd, a wealthy widow who kindly helps the church in her spare time from solving mysteries…

    3. Fiona*

      I used to be this way until I was in a job where I had to make a lot of calls – the thing that helped me was realizing that I just had to say one thing and then…pause…and wait for a response.

      (As opposed to my instinct, which was to just blurt out something like “Hi I’m calling to see if you have any event space open on Friday October 29th but also we could potentially be flexible and do the 30th it would be starting at 11 but maybe we would need time to set up and I would also need to bring in some equipment and would there be any place for me to put it oh I guess I should tell you I’m calling from the university?”).

      Once I realized that a phone call was a two way street, I was much calmer just calling and saying “Hi, I’m calling to inquire about renting your space.” (PAUSE. STOP. WAIT). “Great, I’ll connect you to Joe.” Things flowed much easier!

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yes to this! Especially for things like calling a custodial service – the people at the other end of the line have a script for how to get all of the relevant information out of you, so you can say just one sentence up front (“renting your space”/”hiring a custodian”) and all the other details will be sorted out later in the conversation.

      2. Neosmom*

        When you telephone, ask for help from the person to whom you are speaking. I find that breaks down a lot of barriers and most folks I call do want to be helpful. This works for me for just about every call I need to make.

    4. Ruby Julian-Lee*

      It’s been my experience that most people don’t like to make phone calls. I was a parish administrator for 15 years and hated making phone calls, so I did what you are doing: I’d write out a script or make notes of the points that to be covered, and sometimes practice it out loud. My husband also noted one time that I did not naturally make small talk on the phone, so I taught myself to always begin with basic pleasantries such as “How are you today?” before going into the purpose for the call.

      Eventually I got better at it and you will too with some practice. The job I have now does not require so much cold-calling, thank goodness.

      1. MaryLoo*

        Maybe I’m a grump – I’ve always been straightforward, so when I get an unsolicited phone call for business reasons, I find the “how are you today” to be annoying, because it usually has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of the call. For example, calls from headhunters, calls from my sometime lawn service asking if I want to book yard cleanup, even calls from my dentist wanting to schedule a cleaning.

        You can have a friendly tone, but don’t need “chitchat” phrases. Something like “Good morning, this is Jane Smith from
        ABC-org, I’m calling to see about booking event space on or around .” Then pause. The pause is important, especially if the person needs to send you to someone else who handles whatever you’re calling about. When they say “I’m transferring you to John Smith who does our bookings, just say “thank you”. Friendly, businesslike, and not overly personal.

        In my mind, the worst calls to receive go like this:
        (Caller)“Hello, May I speak to MaryLoo?”
        (Me) This is MaryLoo.
        (Caller) “How are you today?”
        (Me) (thinking ‘I don’t even know who you are or what you want, so why is it any of your business how I am today?). My actual reply is usually “What is this in reference to?”

        Saying “good morning/afternoon”etc is friendly enough and doesn’t require a small-talk answer.

    5. SnapCracklePop*

      I hate phone calls in general, but I also find it harder to make phone calls than answer phone calls. I think it’s the dread/anticipation (which isn’t there if I randomly get an unexpected phone call). So when I need to make a phone call, I just make it immediately and try not to think about it too much. Like ripping a bandaid off. (I used to write scripts and notes too, but then that just left more time between finding out I needed to make a phone call and actually making the phone call, during which the stress and dread started to build.)

    6. The Prettiest Curse*

      This is going to sound weird, and may not be practical for you, but stand up before you dial. For some reason, it can make you feel more authoritative.

      Also, as someone who used to help to answer a very busy main phone line – try not to ramble on for several minutes (very easy to do if you’re nervous or upset), as it will be too much information to absorb and the person who answers the phone will have to interrupt you. Stick to the “Hi, I’m X from Y organisation and I’m calling about Z/to talk to A” script and let them ask you what they need to know.

      1. RagingADHD*

        I often do this instinctively, but for me it’s not so much about feeling authoritative, but just being able to move around a bit is relaxing.

    7. Hydrangea*

      I am the same way! I handled it by learning techniques to manage the dread. One thing that really helps is to remind myself how good it will feel to have it over with (this works for a lot of things that I procrastinate on). Another is learning to feel dread without the need to relieve the dread. Sometimes I remind myself that nobody ever died from making a phone call and that I will literally be perfectly fine while I am talking.

    8. calvin blick*

      I have been there…in addition to make a little script before you call, I try to make sure I’m just saying one crisp, concise sentence at a time. I find myself (and notice a lot of others) rambling, repeating themselves, using a lots of verbal tics, etc when they aren’t sure of themselves on the phone.

      I bought some beaded bracelets as well to have something to do with my hands to channel some of the tension that way.

  80. slashgirl*

    I work at two different school libraries; my larger school (with 400+ kids) and the smaller school (just under 200 kids). I’ve worked at smaller school since 2012. We’ve gone through a few principals since I got here.

    Current Admin (CA) is in her second year here–the teachers love her (she did change the school culture for the better) and I think most of the EAs at least like her…and other support staff seem okay with her. I like her well enough and had worked with her one year when she was a teacher and I had picked up her school as a third school.

    Anyhow, last year she seemed okay with me. This year? I’m getting a feeling she doesn’t care for me much. We use google via our provincial government so she set up a staff binder for all the bits and pieces we need for work–schedules, information, etc. She forgot to give me access, so I had to ask. Then I had to ask for editing access for one of the documents. Often, the only reason I know something’s going on is because the secretary and I are friends.

    Next week, the support staff union will be going on strike–I’m part of this as are Educational Assistants and Pre Primary (pre kindergarten) staff. That means there will be limited supervision available for lunch and breaks. I found out this morning from the custodian that my library will be used as a lunchroom during the strike. I’m not happy about this, but I understand why. Hell, during covid regs, my library at the larger school was turned into a second classroom. I wouldn’t’ve needed a face to face meeting, an email telling me what was happening and why would’ve been sufficient.

    It’s hard enough to feel like I belong to the school without feeling like the principal is freezing me out.

    I think I need to talk her, but I’m not sure if I’m overreacting or not. I’m not angry, just disappointed/frustrated.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I mean she’s trying to manage a striking school, I feel like she’s probably got a lot on her plate. Forgetting to add you to a document, forgetting to inform you the lunchroom is your library while you are out striking, those could just be oversights. Especially since it sounds like you’re not their everyday you’ve multiple locations? Easier to forget.

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        Yeah from what you’ve written here, it doesn’t sound like she’s freezing you out. To me, it sounds like she’s just really busy (managing a striking school sounds hard) and not communicating as much as an ideal boss would. I would wait and see a bit longer before you decide if you want to talk to her.

  81. MarshmallowGhost*

    Perspective needed!

    I applied for a job in a different department of my large company. It would involve moving to a satellite office in a different country. I’m so excited by the role but haven’t heard anything since I applied 3.5 weeks ago.

    Usually hiring processes within the company are fairly quick, so I’m thinking I won’t get at interview.

    I need to just stay quiet and wait to hear something yes? I’m not usually like this but desperately want to contact the hiring manager to ask about the where they are in the process.

    1. Cyndi*

      I think it’s fine to check back with the hiring manager! But if you’re super cautious about bugging hiring managers, like I am, your own manager will probably know where the process is at.

  82. Kesnit*

    I work in a professional position in a state government office. Over the past 5 years, I’ve developed an in-office only friendship with our office manager. (We chat in the office, but don’t spend time together outside the office.)

    My car died about a month ago. I spent a week driving my wife’s car, then got a rental. When our office manager heard I had a rental, she offered me her third car while mine was in the shop. (She and her husband have 2 trucks and an SUV. She loaned me the SUV.) My car has now been fixed and the SUV has been returned. (I had it for 2 weeks.)

    My dad recommended that I get a couple of $100 gift cards to a restaurant our office manager likes as a thank you for the extended loan of her car. In theory, I don’t have a problem with this, but I’m afraid it would look bad, given the difference in our job levels.

    Thoughts?

    1. By Golly*

      I think a gift card (I’d do just one… more feels weird?) would be appropriate in this situation. She helped you out, and you are expressing thanks.

    3. Hydrangea*

      I would buy her some consumables as a thank you, if you can find out what she likes. I was recently in a position of wanting to make a thank you gesture to one of our support personnel, and I bought them a variety of this and that made by small, local businesses–coffee, jam, mustard, that sort of thing. I bought a wide variety of sweet, spicy, etc. bc I really didn’t know what she liked and figured she would at least like one thing and could turn down or re-gift the rest, and I told her as much when I gave it to her.

      Or the gas card. Everyone who drives needs gas.

  83. Anon Sewing Machine*

    My manager refuses to believe that two people in our department are doing work that I and another colleague should be doing, and not telling us when they’re doing it. This is beyond helping when we’re busy, this is doing parts of our jobs that we do on the daily and expect to do, so when we go to do it, it’s a bit ‘wait, when did I do that?’ Which then makes me doubt myself when I can’t find a job in my task log.

    Other departments have noticed this as well – a colleague in an adjacent department came by my desk today and said ‘hey, have you got the updated Llama Forecast that Fergus Bigboss asked for?’ I didn’t even know there was an update to the Llama Forecast because our two colleagues decided not to forward on the information that I needed to update my bit of the Llama Forecast and instead decided to do it themselves.

    I immediately rang one of them (they were wfh today) and asked where my bits for the forecast document were and they said ‘well we didn’t think you needed to see it because you’ve been so busy with the Kitten Project this week’.

    Llama Forecasts are an integral part of our job that we do weekly, even if we’re working on Kittens (like me) or Alpacas (like my other colleague that’s experiencing this). It doesn’t matter what species we’re doing, our company is first and foremost a Llama sales company and we all have to pitch in to the forecast.

    I then got a call from the other Colleague who said ‘we’re going to do yours and Mabel’s Llama Forecast from now on’ and I said ‘yeah? Did Wakeen (our boss) agree this?’

    Silence.

    So I rang Wakeen and told him what just happened and he said ‘they offered to help this week because you’re buried in Kittens and Mabel is drowning in Alpacas, I didn’t say this was a permanent thing and I thought they told you. Did they not? They must have forgotten.’

    If they want to help, fine, but this is the latest in a string of things that they’ve just… decided to do… without consulting me or Mabel, even if it directly affects our work. They’ve also started being super gossipy and hostile to us when we’re all in the office. I’m not sure what I or Mabel have done! Not that there’s anything to gossip about – the most interesting thing that’s happened to me lately is that I got a new sewing machine (it has an overlocker!).

    We have spoken many times to Wakeen about them just going ahead and doing bits of our work without telling us and he dismisses it as ‘they’re still learning’ and ‘let them help’ but it’s to the point now where people are going to them, who have a grand total of eighteen months experience in our job, for answers as opposed to me or Mabel who’ve been here much longer and know the job and the industry better.

    What do I do? I feel like I can’t do my job properly! Oh, and the other two are always complaining how busy they are. Let me and Mabel do our work!

    1. Hydrangea*

      Start documenting every incidence of them doing one of your tasks and also every time you talk to your manager about it. The end goal of this documentation is to show your manager, look, it’s been 6 months, they’ve taken on 50 of our tasks, we’ve had 10 conversations with you, at what point do we decide they are done learning and need to just stop?

      Once you have that conversation, let it go. Your manager has decided that he is ok with this happening, so he has also decided that he is ok with any adverse impact.

    2. ferrina*

      I’m going to echo a lot of what Hydrangea said…

      1. Email. No more phone calls. Make them say what they did in writing. Then tell them what you need from them and why (i.e., “I need you to pass the information along as an fyi. When I don’t’ know that this is done, there may be pieces that you aren’t aware of, like what happened today when….”) Let them respond however they are going to respond.

      2. When they do it again, ask your boss. Calmly, as though it’s just a paper jam in the printer. “Boss, this situation keeps arising and it’s causing this work impact. How would you like me to solve it?” By stating it and being bland, you put it all on the boss’s plate.

      3. What your boss decides to do will tell you what kind of a boss they are. Do they chose to do nothing cuz they just don’t want to? Are they actively looking for a solution? Then you get to decide if that’s a boss you want to work for.

  84. Anon in State Gov*

    How do you keep your morale up when you’re in a less than optimal situation in a “golden handcuffs” position that you really don’t want to leave?

    I am a mid-level state government employee in a STEM field who has a foot in two different roles, one of which is technically one level above my pay grade. My boss and grandboss were keeping the promotional position vacant in hopes that I would be able to apply and be hired in the next year or so (I don’t qualify yet for bureaucratic reasons too dumb to get into).

    We recently had a change in leadership, and this new person wants to make major changes to the way my department works, despite not having the technical knowledge to be able to do that. They’ve already shown that they’re a bit hard-headed and have questionable ability to follow through on things, so I doubt that this will go well.

    Part of the blowing up involves filling the vacant promotional role. The problem is that there are not any qualified candidates on the current list (which was part of the reason for keeping the position vacant), so we are going to end up with someone completely inexperienced and possibly straight up incompetent as our second-in-command. And then there’s the fact that I’ve been doing (and still am doing!) work that I haven’t been getting compensated for, based on the idea that it would get me the promotion, which is clearly not happening at this point.

    Long story short, I have a huge chip on my shoulder about the way things are being done, but I still want to stick around. I have a passion for the work, the work/life balance is unbeatable, and I’m not vested in the retirement system yet. My boss and grandboss have assured me that I will have other advancement opportunities in the future, but how do I create some distance emotionally and get through this transition? At what point do I need to cut my losses and make a run for it? I would love to hear from others who have navigated something similar.

    1. ferrina*

      This is going to sound counter-intuitive….

      Start casually applying. An application isn’t a commitment, and it can help to remember what power you have. You can leave if you want to. See what else is out there. Mentally let go of this place as your only option, because caring less will be very healthy here (note that caring less doesn’t mean that you don’t care at all)

      Decide how long you’re willing to put up with the nonsense. How long before you are vested in the retirement? Is it worth what you’re going to need to put up with? How does it look compared to other career opportunities.

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Assuming that you’re in a union, is there a way they can help you negotiate the doing out-of-title work? Not that you’d want to step out of it at this point, since you want to advance, but perhaps to provide you some shoulders to lean on when making your case that you should be able to enter that position once you’re eligible. And probably BEFORE the job gets posted.

      Then just cross your fingers, hope for the best, and start looking around for other opportunities that would be next-best.

    3. instant dislike?*

      How long until you are vested in the pension?
      I hated my last job so much, I waited until I had the 1 year 401K match and quit.

      The risk right now with leaving a stable government job is the “impending” recession.

      But it doesn’t hurt though to apply for other jobs.

    4. Specialized Skillets*

      Depending on how your state is set up, perhaps you could move to local government and stay in the retirement system? I have worked for a state university and a city that both participate in the state retirement system.

      My government experience is that once a new leadership figure starts making changes there’s not much to be done about it. :(

      I’m also side-eyeing your supervisors for not trying to get you interim pay or special assignment pay.

  85. By Golly*

    I’m interviewing for a position in my field that feels “too good to be true”. It’s well paid, seems like it’s quite easy, and would bring me a lot of joy (essentially teaching kids about a hobby I really enjoy). I keep wondering “What’s the catch?” I’m going back for a second interview next week. What questions would you ask to surface anything weird about the position? (Bonus points for questions that help me figure out if I’d be bored in the position. I think I’m a pretty good candidate, but the work I’ve done is slightly more complex and varied that I think this would be.)

    1. Fabulous*

      What does a typical day look like for this role?
      How varied are the tasks from day to day or week to week?
      What are some of the challenges this role faces?
      How much planning goes into the job, and who is responsible for that?

    2. irene adler*

      What will this job look like in, say, 3 years’ time? (Use whatever number makes sense)
      Follow up question (assuming the position will change): How will I get there?

      What job- or employee- enrichment opportunities are there?

    3. TheraputicSarcasm*

      Why did the previous (position you’re applying for) leave? If it’s a new position, ask what prompted employer to create it.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      Does this role involve other responsibilities not related to hobby? (I’m thinking like a teacher being expected to also run a club, or frequently giving up prep periods to sub for others)

  86. Rage*

    Scary stuff on the Rage-front.

    I’ve been with my current employer for 6.5 years. It’s honestly the best place I have ever worked. I am currently in a Masters program to help advance my career here, with my eye on a doctorate after that.

    But things have been…interesting…lately. COVID took a toll on us, of course, and that was stressful enough. But I just learned yesterday that our CFO and VP of Advancement are both leaving. Reading between the lines, CFO doesn’t have anything else lined up yet, but VP does.

    You’re probably thinking that’s not a lot, but after counting it all up, over the past 18 months we have now had 100% turnover in our C-Suite.

    COO: resigned 2021
    CEO: removed May 2022
    VP HR: resigned June 2022
    VP Communications: resigned September 2022
    CFO & VP Advancement: leaving next month

    Now, a lot of this could be due to CEO removal – but still it’s giving me a quite a bit of anxiety. I’m not a manager or director; I’m an individual contributor. But the thing that concerns me most is that right now, my job is in major flux – and because of that, I don’t actually have a job description.

    So…as much as I don’t WANT to have to do it…I submitted an application yesterday. *sigh*

    1. Meep*

      Can I ask what the word is about why the CEO was removed? Did it involve the COO’s reason for leaving? Or was it a company decision for metrics reasons? The reason will give insight into your job security.

      1. Rage*

        Former COO didn’t want to be C-Suite anymore. She served as interim CEO after THAT CEO was ousted in 2019. (Yeah, 6 years, 3 CEOs, 2 interims.) She’s actually still with us, chilling on my side of the business, living her best life.

        Current COO is also serving as interim CEO

        2022 CEO was ousted because….well, I’m not 100% sure. But from the scuttlebutt, she was rarely in office, often cancelled meetings, and wanted to outsource Accounting, HR, payroll, and IT. OK, yeah, we had a pretty big budget shortfall but…COVID and other things, it’s not surprising, and it wasn’t her fault. There had to be something else going on, but I don’t know what it was.

        Anyway, we have a new CEO selected – I don’t know who, they haven’t announced their name yet – but whoever this person is will obviously have their own ideas on where to take the company (mid-sized non-profit, ~350 ee). My plans with my Masters (and possible doctorate) were all made with the idea that I would remain here. Former CEO was totally on board – I met with her literally 2 weeks before she got the boot – but that doesn’t mean new one will be. And then I have to decide if I continue with it (clinical mental health – so I’d be limited on options except for private practice and I really don’t want to do that), or stick around as a glorified admin with a bunch more student loans, or what.

        But I figure at least I should be putting my toe into the water, to see what’s out there.

    2. ferrina*

      You’re being smart. And an application isn’t a commitment- you don’t actually need to leave unless you want to and you have an offer you’re excited about.

      It’s not abnormal to have a C-suite shakeup after a CEO leaves. 100% turnover IS pretty abnormal. I’d be wondering why each of them left- is it that they don’t want to deal with the clean up from a new CEO? Do they know something about the state of the company? Think about what you know about them and the company. It sounds like you’re doing a really smart thing by getting a fallback plan ready.

      1. Rage*

        Yeah, I’m going to go see if I can get CFO to speak frankly with me. She & I have a pretty good rapport (I used to be EA to the CEO and supported the whole C-Suite as needed) so I think she would be inclined to not pull any punches and tell me straight up if I need to get out.

        The company is not in horrid shape, finance-wise (I know enough to know that at least) – we have quite a bit in savings so it’s not like we’re about to go belly-up or anything. So my guess is they’re tired of the leadership yo-yo. Which doesn’t exactly reassure me. I’m kind of sick of the roller coaster myself.

  87. Anonymous tuber*

    Ack! New job wants us to travel again in a couple months to a place that didn’t enforce masking and avoided vaccines for most of the pandemic. I haven’t needed to travel for work in over 10 years, too. Has anyone traveled for work recently? I’ve only visited family once while masks were still required on planes and I could quarantine with family if I got Covid instead of being stuck in a hotel.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I haven’t traveled for work recently, but I am in an area of the US that handled the pandemic well (lots of testing + masking) at the beginning, and I can tell you that outside of hospitals and doctor’s offices, very few people are wearing masks. Maybe up to 20% on public transportation, and closer to 5%-10% of people everywhere else.

      I still wear a mask on public transportation (including trains and planes when I have traveled for leisure in the past few months) and no one has said anything to me about it or given me the stink eye.

    2. StellaBella*

      Since January I have had to take 20! Yes 20 work flights. Double masked on all planes even the 8! Hour plus flights and masked in locations and washed hands tons and distanced. I have so far avoided this disease so I think I am being safe enough. When was your last booster bed can you get mother with 2 week buffer before travel? Good luck!

    3. Oysters and Gender Freedoms*

      I haven’t traveled for work but I took my first plane trip/vacation recently and here are my thoughts:

      Almost no one masked on the plane or in the airport, but I did. Everyone was fine about it. Get a N95 or equivalent mask. Remember N95 masks (properly fitted) are what health care professionals wear when treating sick people, so they do protect you.

      Make it clear to your employers that you will be wearing a mask when meeting with people.

      I found it really helpful to stay in places that had a kitchen or some kind of cooking facilities. I will not eat inside in a restaurant. Sometimes you can find places to eat outdoors, but if you are working, looking for that is going to be hard, and it’s not guaranteed. If you can’t get a kitchenette, ask if work will cover the cost of room service. Find out if you can get external food delivery to your hotel room.

      Earlier in the year, a friend of mine went to a work event that turned out to be a superspreader event and managed to avoid getting sick. However, as Covid becomes increasingly contagious, that is presumably harder to manage.

    4. Also Anon*

      I’m traveling for work, and have been since the airport/plane mask mandate ended. And I am more conservative about masking than most people in my field / company. I probably went overboard on precautions, but it’s made it OK for me.

      I double-masked in the airport, on the plane, and on any shuttle bus or cab situations (N95 + a cloth mask on the outside for a really tight fit). I stayed masked (N95) at the meetings / conference sessions, even though I was usually the only one. I brought enough N95s that I had a fresh one each day of the conference/meeting. (Not sure if it’s medically necessary, but it made me feel better.) I had a little script ready if someone was curious why I was masking still. Just made it NBD, and it’s what I’m comfortable with.

      I only ate outdoors or in a room by myself. I hung out with others while they ate, staying masked, and then snuck off for my own lunch when I had a second and could find space. To help: I ate a BIG breakfast in my room by myself, knowing lunch could be difficult to get. I brought some power bars in my bag in case I needed to sneak off for super-quick nourishment if the lunch situation went sideways. I even only drank water when I was alone / outside.

      If I got in a situation where I was really uncomfortable — big crowd, tightly packed, etc. I would hang in as long as I could, and then find a moment and just… duck out for a break from it all. People were generally understanding of this when I’m like, “This is my first conference in X years.”

      During at least two of these work trips, I spent a lot of time in a room with someone who was confirmed to have COVID a few days later. Sometimes they were masked, sometimes not. It freaked me out, but I ended up being OK — probably because I was so strict about my own mask and didn’t cave to peer pressure to unmask.

      And in those cases, when I got home, I slept in the guest room, kept my distance from my spouse, and even wore a mask around the house for a few days until I tested negative and lacked symptoms. I’m being WAY more cautious than most of my coworkers, but it’s worked for me and made me less fearful of work travel — which is again a reality of my world.

      1. Anonymous tuber*

        Thanks all. Hmm, maybe I’ll ask if the hotel has air purifiers, too. That would be annoying to travel with one.

  88. Goose*

    Something cool I saw on a job posting today. There is no undergraduate education requirement, so they ask that if you do include your education that you remove the school. And no cover letter!

    1. Goose*

      Meanwhile, half the jobs I’m looking at that spout equity and inclusion don’t include a salary range. Arg.

    2. TheraputicSarcasm*

      I like that concept! Hire on your merits, and if the company does end up needing to verify (probably not since it’s not required), they can check when they call your references.

  89. Science KK*

    I posted a few times in a thread a while back about my coworker who rage quit, and thought I’d provide another update.

    She came back about three weeks later and worked for a week like nothing happened. She’s been back to our area several times, not really talking or acknowledging anyone except a coworker who is known for being a yes man. She has also been telling anyone who will listen our group is “trash” and no one should ever join. She told her previous team not to contact her about things that she did while she worked here yet her old boss keeps telling them to reach out anyway.

    As I’ve watched from the sidelines I’ve never been happier that I left that team.

    1. Indubitably Delicious*

      Probly too late in the day for this, but. I’m in a busy time for my job right now, and struggling with deadlines.

      I was hoping to catch up this week, but my boyfriend of ten years broke up with me last weekend and I’ve been a mess. I basically accomplished nothing for the last few days.

      Normally a breakup is something I would consider mentioning in passing to a supervisor, since it’s affecting my performance (which I realize is my responsibility to fix, regardless).

      But. I’m polyamorous (i.e. in an open relationship), and I have a husband of 15+ years as well as the (ex-) boyfriend. If I talk about the breakup without mentioning the open relationship, it sounds like I’ve been cheating, which is very much not the case.

      So: do I not mention it at all and just not explain the performance problems? Or do I come out to my boss? (I believe she will respond professionally, but I’d rather not be wrong.)

      1. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

        Could you say something vague, like you’re dealing with a distressing family matter?

        1. Indubitably Delicious*

          Yeah, probably the best way to go. I hate being less than honest, but I doubt there’s a safe way around it. Sorry for the threading failure.

      2. By Golly*

        “I’m going through some personal stuff right now that’s making it hard for me to focus.”

    2. The New Wanderer*

      That’s so odd! Did the company just not process her termination paperwork or revoke any access she had? Did she take PTO for the time she was out and try to pass it off as spontaneous vacation? So many questions!

      1. Science KK*

        Supposedly she told HR on the day of the rage quit, but she went from working at the university to being a student so she still needs access to our building. But the whole thing is still weird to me. If we’re so toxic, awful, trash, rutabagas, *insert insults here*, then why do you keep coming back? She’s also has multiple meetings with her boss who she yelled at too, but people are still coming to us saying she’s bad mouthing us. I don’t get it at all.

  90. Anon Answers*

    How do you get get over the guilt of leaving a small team during a busy work time? I’ve been offered a good opportunity for my career and would be leaving a good job and great team. I hate the idea I’m leaving them in a tough place during a busy period. Any advice?

    1. ferrina*

      It will be tough for now, but they’ll make it through, and maybe even better than before! You leaving will bring an opening for a new team member who can also have great ideas and bring different strengths. It can also allows others to grow into some of the aspects of your old role (were there things that you did that no one else did?). If we never left a good team, some of us would never be able to grow.

      Congrats on your new opportunity/job!

  91. Hotdog not dog*

    I have been told that I’m my office’s “utility player” because of my long and varied professional background. The problem is that I keep getting pulled away from the role I was hired to do (and which I enjoy) to fill in because other departments are short handed. They are trying to hire more people, but it’s hard to find qualified applicants at the offered salary. I’ve tried all the tricks I know, including asking my boss to prioritize which tasks get dropped because they can’t all reasonably fit in a work day, offering to train others on certain tasks, and just trying to power through.
    I’m in a weird spiral of boredom and burnout. These extra tasks aren’t interesting to me, but I can’t seem to shake them.
    I’d rather not leave, especially since I enjoy my actual job, but I’m not seeing an end to the current situation otherwise.
    Anyone have any ideas?
    (I did tell my manager this, but it’s out of his hands, the directive is coming from much higher on the food chain.)

    1. Koala dreams*

      If you enjoy your actual job, you definitely should start looking for a job where you get to do that. Don’t stay just because you like the dream of what this job could have been.

      For the burnout, look into treatment and sick leave. You could also look into accomodations if that would help.

    2. Mockingjay*

      It’s not entirely out of your boss’s hands. He needs to advocate for you with the higher-ups.

      “I’m glad Hotdog has been able to pinch hit for X, but I need them back full time next week. We’re behind on our own deliverables. If I don’t get Hotdog back, the schedule will slide six months and cost $$$$.”
      “Let’s get a few more people cross-trained. Hotdog can train them over the next two weeks, then be available as a resource for them; but I need Hotdog back by (date) to focus on Project Y.”

      Talk to your boss, work up scenarios, and have Boss run these by the higher-ups.

      Crucial:
      1) Each solution must contain the same end date by which you must return.
      2) Boss needs to show the impact on your department. Errors, schedule, costs. Borrowing you isn’t fixing anything – in fact it’s probably delaying hiring because some work is getting done. Boss needs to demonstrate that continued pinch-hitting is going to cost ALL departments more in the long run.
      3) Make sure all the scenarios are things you and Boss can live with, so it doesn’t matter what solution the higher ups pick.

      Hope this helps. I’ve been in a similar situation and it wasn’t resolved until a senior manager in my department stepped in.

    3. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      What happens if you accept that this IS your new job? Sounds like leadership has decided you are the backfill for these other tasks. So what if you pivot to your perspective that this current work is your job for the time being. How does that feel? Can you lean into dispassionately? I.e. well it’s time to do xyz, but it will only take 2 hours, and then I can take a break and do something nice for me. I.e. be that utility player and make mgmt happy. Then also start looking for a new job of course. But wondering if this new mindset helps you feel more settled.

      I hear you that you don’t like this other work. However, if the feeling of things being out of your control, and uncertainty about when this will change, is causing so much angst. Then maybe removing that angst and uncertainty will help, at least in the short-term. Then they’re just tasks that you do.

  92. instant dislike?*

    I think one of the managers dislikes me.
    I started a part-time retail job at TJMaxx.
    I only work 2 or 3 days a week and 4 hour shift.
    I have never worked in retail.
    I worked in IT.

    From the beginning, the female manager has been snippy with me.
    The male manager is fine.
    The other male manager I have not had to interact with much.
    It seems this female manager has taken a dislike to me which I don’t get.
    She finds fault with everything I say and everything I do.
    Talks to me with an attitude that I don’t see in her interaction with the other fulltime employees.
    We have only interacted about 6 times in total.
    Just so bizarre.

    1. TheraputicSarcasm*

      That’s super frustrating! What kind of things is she finding fault with? Is she telling you how X should be done, or just criticizing with no real explanation?

  93. HBJ*

    Excel question: I am an advanced beginner or low intermediate Excel user doing payroll for our very, very tiny company vis Excel. have my payroll and pay stub in the same workbook on separate sheets. On the payroll sheet, I have one row for each pay period – B2 is the pay period date range, C2 is the regular pay rate, D2 is the total hours, E2 is total regular pay, etc. Next pay period, everything will move down – B3 is the pay period date range, C3 is the regular pay rate, etc. and so on. At the bottom, I have a totals row to add up each of the columns to get a YTD total of their pay, each deduction, etc. My paystub sheet pulls the numbers from the payroll sheet into the pay stub.

    —My question: the current pay period row moves down each month, so the formulas need to change in the paystub sheet. This pay period, the gross pay is cell I2, so the formula on the stub is =Payroll!I2. But next period, it will be cell I3, so the formula will need to be =Payroll!I3. Is there an easy way to automatically update the formulas in the paystub sheet without manually updating them each time?

    1. Ginger Baker*

      Vlookup! I was just spreading the word on this today :-). You can set a cell on the paystub tab to be “Payroll Date”, then you set the pull-numbers cells to look at that date, look at the payroll sheet, and select the correct cell based on that (type =vlookup in the formula bar, then click the fx button to the left of the bar – set the lookup_value to be the Payroll Date cell, set the Table_array to be the payroll tab columns, including the date column as *the left-most column of your selection*, then set the col_index_num to be the column that has the info for that particular cell [literally count over from the date column, with the date column as 1 and the next column as 2, until you get the the column you want, then enter that number], and set range_lookup to 1 then hit enter and repeat for each cell that needs the lookup). Voila! Magic!

      1. Beebee*

        Even better than VLOOKUP is XLOOKUP :-) It’s a little easier to write but just as great.

        If neither of those work I recommend posting to an Excel help form as it’s hard to give advice without seeing the sheet in question.

  94. Mimmy*

    Tales of the Ever-Elusive Higher Education Job Search, chapter 20

    Curious if the following is common (I have a hunch that it is…)

    I just got an email notifying me that I was not selected to be interviewed for a job at a private university that I was particularly interested in. Completely normal part of the job search…I get it.

    The email said in part, “We received a significant number of applications from many highly qualified candidates whose skills and qualifications more accurately matched the needs of the position.”. Also normal, right?

    Well… I *also* saw that the position was re-posted today (different requisition number, but the description is the same). If you got “many highly qualified candidates”, then why are you re-posting the position?

    Sigh.

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      This sucks, but it could be for any number of reasons: you’re highly qualified, but they have a specific niche teaching need that this position needs to fill; they’ve hired three people form your institution in the last year and need to diversify; ProfessorBigWig just sent over the name of a candidate who would be *amazing* for the job and they have to repost the opening to satisfy HR. There’s just so many reasons you could have been turned down for this post, and most of them have nothing to do with you and your resume.
      Plus “we received many highly qualified applications” is usually just HR fluff in a form rejection letter. Don’t let it mean too much.

    2. Shapira*

      Could be set to auto-post until the role is officially filled. Could be someone mistakenly renewed it. Could be the email you got is just HR pro forma language. Who knows? All you actually know is that they don’t want to progress your application and that’s all you need to know.

    3. Minimal Pear*

      I actually just had to send out emails like this! Our problem was that even though we had a number of people who were highly qualified… everyone was missing experience in one area that we really needed. So now we’re going to try to fill this role again, really honing in on finding people with that type of experience.

  95. Lady Alys*

    Does anyone have links to good QGIS training resources – I’m particularly interested in taking existing shapefiles and extracting certain parts of them into separate shapefile sets – think school board districts or county commissioner districts (US). Thank you!

  96. Social Raccoon*

    Hi everyone! I’m a current senior in college, graduating in the Spring, and the advice from our career center is often wildly off-base or contradicting depending on which staff member you ask, so I’d love to get some thoughts from people actually out in the work field!

    When is the best time to start applying for full-time jobs?
    Myself and my peers have been told to start now, start over Winter break, wait until January, start in March, etc.
    I’m sure it varies by role & industry so I’ll provide some more info: I’m a digital marketing major looking for marketing/social media roles, I’ve had some internship experience in the entertainment industry, and I’d love to begin a full-time job within it, though I am realistic that it may not happen instantly and am keeping agency life in mind as well for entry-level roles.

    Thanks for any input anyone can give, from my whole graduating cohort!

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Usually, you’d know if you’re in a field where you start job-hunting early (which I would define as before Winter break). Engineering is one, for example. You’d also likely know if you’re in a field with cyclical hiring seasons, like education.

      I’d aim to start 4-5 months before you’re optimally trying to start working. So that might be January if you’re hoping to start close to Graduation or April if you’re not planning to start until the fall.

    2. Hydrangea*

      Start now and be upfront about when you can start.

      One thing I didn’t know when I was graduating is that if you get an offer before you graduate, they do expect you to decide in a week or two even though you won’t be available for six months. Job fairs at universities tend to happen over a series of several weeks, and you honestly want to go to all of them to see what’s out there. You can keep going to these fairs and applying and interviewing even if you have already accepted something, but you have to be strategic about it there is a chance that word could get around that you turned down an offer that you had accepted.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      If you have the time I’d go ahead and start shooting off applications now. Make sure your resume and your cover letter has a clear graduating May 2023, Available for work June 2023 type thing on it so you don’t waste anyones time. Many companies that hire freshly graduated students backfill early for summer start dates. I can’t speak to marketing specifically but I know it is a much more enjoyable senior year if you’ve locked into a job! Look on the job ads too, do they say looking for someone to start immediately or not. Engineering at least they often said looking for June 2023 start date.

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      If you are applying to jobs where the first step is the on-campus interview (or some other mechanism where your career center is heavily involved), start now. Employers who deliberately recruit upcoming college grads know what the schedules are and have that built into their processes. And it is completely normal in that case to accept a job in March and set your start date to be 1 August.

      Also, it can’t hurt to talk to your favorite professors. Ask them what worked best for their students in previous years. They may know specifics about your discipline that the career center isn’t aware of.

  97. frustrated trainee*

    Why do companies feel like it’s a good idea to lie to interviewees, or just withhold critical information that would impact their decision to come on board? I know that sometimes people are desperate to fill a role but when you figure out quickly if you’ve been lied to or had the job/company misrepresented and it causes a huge tank in morale, and if someone was just on the job search they might have a few other irons in the fire they can use to get away from you easy. You’ll be left with someone who can’t leave and who wasn’t the right fit for the role!!

    Recently (not at my current job) I took a role and found out some things like:
    *the person I replaced frequently had to work from 9 AM until 11 PM. I asked about the hours and they said “standard hours, occasional overtime for big projects.” I asked how much “occasional” was and they said not that often, i asked how much “not that often was” and they said they weren’t sure but they didn’t remember my predecessor doing it all that often (she was already gone and I couldn’t ask her. When I brought this up after starting I was told it was my responsibility to ask during the interview. I said I did, and they said that they couldn’t remember what they said.

    *I asked what the training would look like since my predecessor was gone already and it was a team of 1. They said they recorded her doing trainings. I thought that would suffice, but the recordings were just of my predecessor sharing random musings on the job *in general*, not hopping into the system and showing you how to do anything. Again, I was told it was my fault and they can’t tell me “every little thing”.

    *This job was sold to me as largely work from home with occasional work in the office. I asked what “occasional” looked like, they said that varied by project and they weren’t sure what was coming up, but in lockdown my predecessor had moved to entirely WFH just fine. When I showed up, I was told that I needed to be in the office basically every day, that my predecessor had been given special equipment (VERY expensive special equipment due to the nature of the job, thousands of dollars) to take home but now that “COVID is over” they weren’t going to be giving me the equipment to take home.

    I was gone in 2 months. Why on earth would they do this? I learned quickly that they were in a real bind and desperate to fill the role but they’re far from the first company I know of to be vague, intentionally misdirecting, or outright lying in an interview and I feel like I have to full on interrogate people to get the truth, a horrible way to get the job and a horrible way to start off a relationship. Why can’t people just tell the dang truth to find the right candidate for what the work will wind up being?

    1. Sabine the Very Mean*

      I don’t know but this is why I don’t feel bad in the slightest for lying to employers when I accept a job. I told my current employer I’d be selling my house and moving 2 hours north to their county within the first year. I have no plans to do that. None–and I don’t care even slightly. If the job can be done well remotely for a full year, it can always be done remotely. I won’t even sugarcoat it for them at the one year mark. “Oh no, that no longer works for me” and let bossman decide if he wants to let me go. I doubt he will.

      1. frustrated trainee*

        You know if you’d asked me prior to 2020 I’d have been like “ooh you shouldn’t have” but you know what? I’m finding myself cooler land cooler with this after the terrible way companies have behaved themselves.

        Oh another lie. I’m immunocompromised and told them this in the hiring and said I needed to know what their COVID policy was. They said 2-3 people in the office max, everyone masked. I showed up on day one to over 10 people in the office, no masks. They said that the government had lifted mask mandates so I shouldn’t have expected that to still be the case. AND we were having raging COVID cases in that office AND they expected me to walk around, exposing myself to more people, snooping and keeping a list of who came in because we were topping the list of how many people were allowed to be in the office. Because I was there all the time (because as mentioned beforehand, i was lied to about what the WFH option was). My own best interest/protecting coworkers I believe are in the right are the only things that’s going to get me being truthful to employers after a bit more of this and that’s exactly what they should expect.

  98. Ellis Bell*

    This one is an autism, or general SEN, question for educators. The question is, how reasonable/understandable is the following… My friend and colleague (we both work in education, specialising in SEN) has been having a bit of a time with her 9 year old autistic daughter, Amy. Historically, she’s dreaded going into school and has sometimes had meltdowns in the morning, and refusing to go in. Getting an autism diagnosis helped, as has getting an Education Plan which teachers had to then follow. She was still a bit up and down, but started y5 in September really positively and seemed to like her teacher this year. A week ago this new teacher said he wanted to make some changes “so Amy could know who’s in charge” and so Amy’s autism measures would be “more discreet”. Amy could no longer bring in her purple sloth cuddly toy, which Amy has been using as an aid to calm herself down when she gets overwhelmed by noise/smells/changes in plans. He also said he might need her to start eating in the hall with everybody else “because some of the other girls want to eat somewhere quiet too, and it’s not fair to give Amy special treatment”. He’s also said her autism lanyard (which helps the canteen staff identify and look out for her) should not be worn any more because”it’s not uniform” and “it makes her stand out”. He’s worked in SEN extensively and asked my friend to trust him that it’s best that these measures are in place from now on. My friend said there’s no way she could take Slothy away overnight, just like that without it causing serious upset to Amy. The teacher asked if they could make sure that it at least stays in the bag (it usually sits on her desk where she can see it while working). When Amy was told about these new rules, Amy did not respond well at all. She spent the evening sobbing in the foetal position, and the next day she did get in the car to go to school, but she couldn’t bring herself to actually go in when they arrived at school. Her mum went to tell someone she was too distressed to come in, and the deputy head came out and listened to what had happened. The DH said “Oh this isn’t okay. We can’t take away your sloth just like that. Come in, and we’ll sit in my office with him”. Amy relented and followed the DH inside while her mum sighs in relief. When my friend picked her up later, she asked Amy what had happened after she went in with the DH. Apparently the DH had just taken Amy straight to class, dropped her outside and told her to wipe her face and go inside when she was ready (without telling the class teacher why she was late). Amy apparently took some time to gather herself and decided “I don’t want to be naughty” and decided to go in with her sloth in her bag. Because she couldn’t concentrate, she wrote a poem about why she needs Slothy. She recited this to herself throughout the day to keep calm but was very panicky throughout. My friend showed the school the poem (it’s very good! But also quite sad). She was hoping they’d see how seriously Amy is struggling without her technique of holding the sloth, but instead of reversing the rule, they just gave her a positive mark for good writing. The school has made the point that a cuddly sloth is not specifically on her education plan, and it’s an unreasonable expectation. Thoughts?

    1. Parakeet*

      I am not a teacher, but I am autistic. It seems straight-up cruel to me to make a kid forgo an utterly harmless coping tool, to try to force her into internalizing that her difference is bad and wrong, even when it’s not hurting anyone. And the “more discreet” thing makes it sound like the teacher’s actual goal, as with so much supposed autism intervention, is to make Amy pass as allistic.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Yes! I actually don’t know why addressed teachers specifically; it just goes against basic kindness and common sense. It’s just one of those things that are so illogical it makes you wonder… is it me not getting it?

    2. Secondary School Teacher (UK)*

      As a teacher who often has autistic students in my classes, and who has been teaching for over twenty years, this is a load of BS, absolutely not good practice, and should be challenged strongly. The sloth is helping Amy, and doesn’t harm anyone. She should be allowed to keep it on her desk. The rest of this teacher’s nonsense about things making Amy stand-out is ridiculous – he needs retraining on working with autistic students ASAP. I’d be complaining to the head teacher, whoever is in charge of SEN, the school board/governors/local council (whoever is in charge of education in your area) and anyone else who will listen.

      None of this is reasonable. Amy is an autistic child who is doing well when she has the supports in place that she needs. This teacher doesn’t understand how to teach effectively.

    3. WellRed*

      I’m rather taken aback at the DH here. They straight up lied? And the teacher doesn’t think she should wear the lanyard? There’s bigger issues here than a sloth.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        My thought was that the whole approach from the start was deceptive (discreet!) and that it came from above the teacher, because I know the school’s SENCo is a liar from a previous story my friend told me. (Basically the SENco messed up and lied through her teeth to cover her tracks). So the entire leadership must be A-OK with deception. Well… I was right. My friend attended a parent’s evening yesterday, and approached the SENco with these issues. The SENco went from pretending she wasn’t familiar with teacher’s new rules regarding Amy, to contradicting herself and saying she had seen Amy “surrounded by stuff on her desk” and concluding with “That’s not okay; we’re inclusive, but not that inclusive”. When my friend and her husband spoke to the class teacher himself, he seemed mortified and apologised for initially okaying the sloth and adding “I said okay too soon, before checking with leadership.” He also seemed much more informed about SEN than the SENco. My friend has now contacted the external support agency, who are supporting them with diagnosis and an educational plan ( and who has been trying for weeks to speak to the SENco about Amy’s provisions). This story made the agency person’s hair stand on end and they are going to be dropping in unannounced on the school.

    5. KoiFeeder*

      Bigger problems than the sloth for sure, but as a former autistic student- I would be really, really careful about that teacher. While this teacher will probably not damage Slothy as happened to my Wildwick, my Wildwick was also “confiscated” before being damaged and it took my father coming into the school and confronting the principal to get him returned.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        Also, I sent the screencap with all names but Slothy’s redacted to someone in the autism discord that works in SEN. They’re having a conniption right now but the gist of it is that this guy is absolutely full of it, everything he suggested is the opposite of beneficial, and it’s really concerning that he thinks Amy needs to know “who’s in charge” because teaching SEN kids is collaborative and they should be working together rather than him giving orders and expecting her to accept them without argument.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          No, my teacher was pretty clear that she was offended at having to teach an autistic person “like a normal child” and in fact had heavily bought into eugenicist rhetoric which she taught in class as if it was factual.

    6. Crackerjack*

      I’m so late you may not see this – but I am a teacher (secondary) and also in the UK where I think you are too. Amys story fills me with rage and they are being wankers here. I would say complain, but realistically – move schools. There are places that do better. That is bullshit.

    7. Ellis Bell*

      Thank you for all the very validating comments regarding the obvious “bullshit”, “lying” and “rage”-inducing nature of this situation. I will definitely pass all your words on to my friend whose training is the only thing preventing her from being gaslit by the all the eye rolling, and being treated like she’s being “that parent”.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        Allow me to validate that your friend is 100% not being “that parent”! She is trying to do her best for Amy and protect her from a school system that does not care about her needs and does not want to do its part in ensuring that her needs are met. As a former autistic child, my parents doing the same for me was intensely valuable and I would be a lot more traumatized by the school system if they hadn’t been on my side.

    8. Yoli*

      I’m a former administrator based in the US, so I can speak for what’s true here and hope some of this is helpful if you aren’t US-based: changes to the IEP require an amendment and parents have the right to call a meeting with the IEP team at any time. Also it is not best practice for anyone to make a sudden or unilateral change for a student. I’d go back to the IEP and see if there’s general language about accommodations (e.g., “use appropriate tools to support engagement in gen ed setting”) and call a meeting with the team. Here in the US we also have Program Managers (or Program Specialists, SPED Department Heads, etc.) who support the case managers at multiple sites, so they would also be someone worth connecting with (and often have more expertise about implementing and shifting accommodations. Good luck!

  99. sapphires and snark*

    I’m probably in the best professional position of my life. I currently have a WFH job that I really like–decent pay, good bosses and co-workers, outstanding work/life balance, etc.

    A couple of weeks ago, I got pinged by an internal recruiter from a company to which I applied about a year and half ago, when I sensed that some bad things were on the horizon at my old job. I just interviewed for that position, which would likely be a significant pay increase if I get it, and I thought it went really well!

    I am going to have a difficult decision to make if I do get offered the position. And if I don’t–no big deal at all! It’s a nice place to be in.

    1. Sabine the Very Mean*

      I love being in this position! And it finally feels like many of us get to be in this position instead of clambering for scraps.

  100. It Actually Takes a Village*

    Not a fan of the « Indigenous consultation vs accommodations » comments being closed without a note.

    There was a lot of white centering and oblivious, if not actively harmful advice given, but a lot of the later comments were from Indigenous commenters, such as myself.

    I’m hoping that Allison updates it soon with an explanation because it feels pretty terrible having Indigenous input restricted when there are over 300 comments by white people sitting there.

    1. Laika*

      Oof, yeah. I was following that thread with interest since something tangentially related came up at my work just this week. Surprised to see it’s just been locked down without an explanation.

    2. It Actually Takes a Village*

      Not sure why my follow-up is not posting. It was a very important note about the erasure of Indigenous people.

      1. It Actually Takes a Village*

        I made a comment a while ago about the emotional labour by Indigenous people in the other post, and one about Allison and the commentariat taking responsibility for their actions here, and neither are showing up, even though there were no links or swear words.

        Not sure why those are being held in moderation while other comments are going through.

        1. Minimal Pear*

          I think the moderation picks up on a lot of words–I remember having some of my comments get stuck in moderation and the only thing I could think of that was a problem was some disability-related word or other.

            1. KoiFeeder*

              Which is really annoying when you have it and are trying to talk about your struggles in the workplace, and doesn’t stop people from claiming any irritating coworker in a letter is it.

          2. emily n.*

            I have a wordpress blog and I can say firsthand the moderation function is not always logical, I am always finding comments stuck in moderation for no discernible reason. It’s not always about specific words triggering it. There is also a separate filter function for comments wordpress thinks are spam and I don’t even get alerted to those, I have to specifically go looking for them. And I get a lot fewer comments than this site does so I can only imagine how much more often it probably happens here.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’ve pulled it down for now — I don’t know if it will stay down or not but I’ve been dealing with a family emergency for the last 48 hours and have been unable to moderate. I received several thoughtful emails suggesting I pull it down, which I’ve done. I apologize for the timing; it was was pre-scheduled to publish and ended up being on a day that I didn’t know would end up being a terrible day for my family. I will read all the comments on it and figure out where to go from there once I’m able to (although I agree it should likely be restored so the input Indigenous folks provided isn’t lost; I just don’t want to make that call until I’m in a place to look at the whole thing more thoughtfully).

      1. My name is Tim Kono*

        With respect, during this difficult time for your family, the post should never have been an ask the readers one anyway; it would have been far better as a guest post, with a note at the top asking for people who do not have experience of or who are not indigenous to step back and read/not comment like you have done for several other past posts (usually LGQBT+ ones etc).

          1. My name is Tim Kono*

            Thank you for acknowledging this. I think if you could in future re-run the question with a suitable guest speaker, it would work much better.

            1. Ask a Manager* Post author

              I agree with that as well.

              I got some sleep and then spent some time this morning reading through everything that was submitted. The post is back, but I agree it wasn’t well suited for an “ask the readers” question. I looked at it as a question about accommodations and navigating autism at work, when it really needed expertise from the Indigenous community if it were going to be posted.

              Because of that, I’ve removed most of the comments but left those with advice from Indigenous commenters for the letter-writer (and moved those to the top so they’re the most prominent). I also left their feedback on why the question wasn’t a useful one to pose in this manner. And I left a small number of comments from non-Indigenous commenters that tackled other angles that I thought might be useful to the letter-writer or others in a similar situation. Comments will remain closed from here for all the reasons people raised, but I wanted to preserve the Indigenous input.

              Thank you to those of you who called it out. It’s a flag to me that I need to bring a higher level of scrutiny to what gets chosen for “ask the readers” questions, as well as where outside experts need to be brought in, and I appreciate it.

  101. lyngend (canada)*

    Tips for dealing with grief while working. First time I’m dealing with this. Have a long time friend who has cancer reaching the end of her battle, and finding keeping everything at bay is hard

    1. TheraputicSarcasm*

      First you let all the commenters send you virtual cookies and hugs.
      Second, how comfortable are you with telling coworkers that you’re going through personal stuff?

    2. Hlao-roo*

      No personal experience with this, but there may be some useful advice in the how-to-still-function-at-work vein in the Captain Award letter #450: How to tighten up your game at work when you’re depressed.

      I’m sorry for you and your friend.

    3. WellRed*

      Take time off if needed, be kind to yourself and do let others know, as appropriate. As todays letter about grief showed, it does not work to try and power through. I’m sorry.

  102. Nessun*

    Looking for suggestions on where staff can learn oral presentation skills. I know about Toastmasters, but we’re looking for something that’s 1:1 training also, where the staff have a chance to learn skills before they perform them. Does anyone know of any courses (online or in person in Canada) that they would recommend? I realize they may need a many-pronged approach, with possibly 1:1 learning or coaching plus Toastmasters/something similar – open to any and all suggestions. TIA!

  103. Squeebird*

    I’m looking at applying to a job posting for a position that asks for a “Portfolio which demonstrates talent and ability in a wide range of written materials which include: print ads, brochures, radio ads, newsletters, and websites”. I have done most of these as part of my current position (writing is not the primary focus of my job now but I’ve produced materials like this). I’ve never had to compile them into a portfolio though, and I’m not even sure where to start. My initial searching for advice has really only turned up guidance for people who are freelance journalists and bloggers rather than folks applying for the kind of role I’m interested in. If any of you know of good sources with information about how to put something like this together (or any general guidance) I would be grateful!

  104. sarah*

    I’m running into a recurring DEI related issue and I wonder what other people think about this. I’ve been at the same company, a tech startup, for 6 years. I moved into management 3 years ago, have been promoted twice, and now lead my department. I’m very happy with the way my career has developed here, especially since my previous job was at a big company and was kind of a dud growth-wise.

    The C-suite is almost all older white men. They’re nice people who are interested in DEI and believe it’s important, but don’t always really get it. Very often, when I bring up a DEI related topic, they’re happy to hear me out but respond with some variation of “but it wasn’t a problem for you, right, you’re obviously doing fine!” I never really know how to respond to that, because they’re not wrong – I am doing fine. But that doesn’t mean the topics I’m raising aren’t issues or that we shouldn’t improve for the next person.

    As a specific example: a couple of women on my team said they often feel talked-over in meetings. I recommended some changes to the format of our large cross-team meetings to mitigate this. The CTO, who runs the meetings, told me that it didn’t seem like a big problem because I am fairly outspoken in those meetings. True, but I’m the only woman doing that! He wants to know why everyone can’t do what I do. Because… not everyone is me?

    1. WellRed*

      But in a sense you are being talked over, if not in the most literal sense. When you bring up a a DEI concern they pat you on the head and say, “but you’re ok!” You say they are happy to listen, but… they aren’t hearing you. I can only imagine how frustrating this is for, example, those other women. You are telling them it’s a problem and they are Dismissing You!

    2. ferrina*

      WellRed is right. You may be talking, but it’s not like they are listening. Odds are pretty high that they will never listen. I’ve known many, many older white men like this- they are politely interested in DEIJ, but aren’t interested in actually making any changes. They like to point to overtly, horrificly sexist/racist people and say “I’m not doing that! I’m such a good guy”. Then they will point to any evidence that show how not racist/sexist they are (and if they run out of that, then they criticize you for not considering their intentions.

      My favorite is when they also talk a big game about “data-driven decisions”, then claim that DEIJ number are wrong, therefor they don’t need to ask (they say this without any data to back them, of course)

    3. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Have you said to them what you wrote: “But that doesn’t mean the topics I’m raising aren’t issues or that we shouldn’t improve for the next person.”

      or some variation on that theme:
      “This is not about me or my experience; this is about including people who don’t have the authority or privilege that I have.”

      “I’m not bring this up for my own gain. I’m advocating for those that don’t have a voice at this discussion.”

      1. Dark Macadamia*

        Yes, I’d try to have one or two scripts in mind for those. “I think this is important whether it affects me or not, don’t you?” “I think if we wait for people who are affected to feel empowered to speak up we might never hear from them” etc

    4. PollyQ*

      “The fact that it may not be a problem for all women does not prove that it isn’t a problem for many women.”

  105. Nicky*

    I am very happy in my current job (let’s call it Company A), but was recently approached by a recruiter about a similar position at another company (Company B) offering quite a bit more money. I figured I might as well interview for it, and ended up getting an offer. I certainly did give the offer a lot of consideration and was interested in accepting it.

    However, Company A ended up making a counteroffer: they matched the salary Company B was offering and also offered me a promotion that I’d been working hard to try to achieve for years. (The Company B position would’ve been for a title identical to my previous one, ie basically a lateral move.) The counteroffer seemed too good not to take, especially since I already enjoy my work at Company A, so I decided to accept it and turn down Company B. (I know your general advice is not to take a counteroffer, but I’m in an industry where it’s very common and the only way people ever get raises/promotions.)

    Generally when people are promoted on my team, they announce it on social media. I’ve already had a few people ask me when I plan to make my announcement. But my field is a small world, and I know that if I do announce it, Company B will probably see that. I really respect Company B and liked the people I interviewed with, and I’d like to avoid burning the bridge there if possible. I don’t want to seem like I was only using them to get a promotion and never intended to consider the job. Would it be wise to keep this promotion under wraps? Am I overthinking it?

    1. Hydrangea*

      Can you reply with a breezy, “Oh yeah, I should do that..” and then not actually announce? The promotion will be overwhelmed by new things soon enough, and people will stop asking.

  106. Skeezix*

    What the heck is “Executive Presence”?? I applied for a promotion at work and the all-male interview panel narrowed it down to me and one other person. They made their decision based on a need for “strong executive presence”. I am a woman and the person selected is a man.

    1. Hydrangea*

      It means, “presents like a WASP man.”

      Less cynically, it means a certain type of charisma that we associate strongly with WASP men (ok, still very cynical). Think, exuding authority and charm, appearing extroverted. Stuff like that.

    2. RagingADHD*

      I interpret that as referring to a combination of charisma and authoritativeness or gravitas.

      While it’s an attribute anyone can have, I think people who are not thoughtful or careful / aware of gendered expectations and bias are likely to perceive men as having more executive presence than women.

    3. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      I think they answered your question. The hiring panel’s view of what makes an executive is being a man.

  107. Grace*

    Necklace-related question. I’ve read the posts on here about how necklaces in the office, even fairly innocuous-looking ones to my eye (and I’ve had friends who were very much into BDSM), when worn all the time, will read to a lot of people as a collar and therefore totally inappropriate for the workplace.

    I have a necklace I wear all the time. It is a fairly simple one – square chain, bear pendant with Navajo traditional designs (made by a Navajo artisan for sale to non-Navajo tourists, nothing sacred). I only take it off for events where I can’t safely wear it, and then I put it right back on afterwards. It was a gift from my grandparents, and it’s very important to me, but it has absolutely no sexual meaning.

    Is there a good way to prevent the unfortunate assumptions about what it means? Ideally one where I can still wear it?

    2. Hydrangea*

      Oy. There is no way to prevent unfortunate assumptions bc those assumptions about are the assumer, not about you. However. The comment section here is not representative of the general population, and I really don’t think you have anything to worry about.

    3. Ginger Baker*

      What. I don’t think a necklace, just a regular-degular *non-collar or maybe choker-style looking necklace* is going to read as a collar to anyone just because you wear it day to day. I think your “lot of people” here is a HUGE stretch and I would not worry in the least about wearing your necklace daily at work (and it sounds lovely!).

    4. RagingADHD*

      Does it *look* like a collar?

      I think you are extrapolating much too much from this comment section to the real world. Whenever certain topics come up, a lot of people show up and take glee in projecting their opinions and perceptions that are not at all representative of the average workplace, or mainstream awareness. And a lot of them are fictionalized.

      Anything about sex. Anything about bathrooms. Anything about pets. Anything about weed. Anything about periods.

      You can’t take it too seriously or you’ll wind up totally paranoid.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Also, unless I’ve missed some necklace discussion here, the comments section saying “yes, totally looks like a collar” has mostly been in response to people asking “I want to wear an unobtrusive collar to work as part of my BDSM relationship, here’s an example of what I’m thinking of wearing, does this still look like a collar?” Easy to say in an internet comments section it looks like a collar when you know the “right” answer is that it’s a collar, much less likely to think that IRL.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Agreeing with Raging and adding if you are a woman it does not matter what you wear someone, somewhere will attach a sexual thing to it.

        I thought I had aged out of the turtle neck situation. Nope. I was in my early 50s and I heard “What’s up with the turtle necks? Got hickies?”

        No, I live in a near 200 year old house and the walls are poorly insulated. I never warm up- you FOOL.
        Some people never, ever grow up.

        And in general people are critical just because that’s how they live. At one point I wore a lot of dressier shoes, because my feet can’t hack cheap casual shoes. A woman said to me, “I have watched. I have concluded that you think you are too good to wear sneakers. You think sneakers are beneath you.”

        Who writes your stuff, lady?

        I explained about foot problems and needing durable shoes. Fortunately the woman turned the conversation by recommending a couple of better brand sneaks. (This was back in the early 80s when good sneaks were not so common.) I did go check those brands and I was able to find something. Good pointer from her, but her initial delivery so sucked.

        For your own well-being LET GO of the idea that we can prevent others from having the wrong thoughts about us. We can’t. That’s it.

    5. Dark Macadamia*

      I’ve never seen comments here that any random necklace worn regularly reads as a collar!

    6. PollyQ*

      That doesn’t sound at all like a BDSM-type collar, so I hereby decree that you can wear it with no apologies or explanation needed.

    7. Rowena*

      I think you have misunderstood those threads and are making unwarranted and unreasonable assumptions based on a very limited discussion that you clearly haven’t fully understood.

      No one thinks your necklace is a collar. Don’t bother yourself about it.

  108. Empress Ki*

    Would you leave a permanent job for a one year contract ? And at 50 years old ?
    I applied for a job in a charity (interview next week). I may not get the job anyway, but I am wondering what I will do if I am successful.
    I have worked for a local authority for 7 years. They offer good pension contribution, great annual leave. I am on a “permanent” contract. I am at an age when it can be difficult to get a new job. I also hate most parts of my job. I suffocate there.
    The job I applied for is only a one year contract ( that may be renewed depending on funding). I have volunteered for this charity so I know the people there and how they work. I love what they do. My only concern is that I could be out of work at 51.

    1. RagingADHD*

      Not unless I had enough to retire on already, or my current job were about to disappear, or it was such a fabulous financial & career opportunity that it would launch me into a highly in-demand career track.

    3. Empress Ki*

      Thank you for sharing your opinions. The new job will also contribute to pension but only the statutory 3% contribution. I think my current one contributes about 6%/ (This is the UK).
      I’d better chase permanent offer rather than temporary 1-year contracts

  109. Voldemort's cousin*

    Overall question: when to ask to go part time?

    I work at a mid size law firm of lovely people, and my husband and I are expecting our first little one (yay!). I’d like to ask to go part time once the baby arrives, and after my maternity leave ends. I am hoping that management is amenable to me doing so. When’s the right time to ask to go part time? One month before returning from maternity leave? Before going on leave? All input welcome!

    1. Not in your timezone*

      This probably depends on the culture and workplace laws where you live.

      In my country the right to request part time is protected (you can ask but you might not get it) after maternity leave. The usual practice is to have an informal discussion with your workplace about your plans prior to going in leave, but not to officially do so, so as not to impact financial entitlements. Once the money stuff is exhausted then an official request is made. It is generally assumed that requests made by first time parents are flexible as many change plans once the reality of baby life is clear (either they realise part time money won’t stretch or difficulties with childcare make part time necessary).

      What protections do you have in place? I’d err on the side of caution is you need mat leave or health care etc and there is a possibility of being let go if you ask early.

    2. Yoli*

      I can’t speak to the law firm angle, but I’d ask closer to your anticipated return and when you have a clear idea of the implications for childcare.

  110. Tara R.*

    First of all, I asked a question in a previous open thread about how to stop rambling when trying to explain things, and got some incredibly helpful advice and feel like I can see some improvements already! Thanks especially to ferrina who left an incredible response that I didn’t see in time to respond because (surprise) I got distracted hahaha.

    I am back again with a very related question. How do y’all stay focused in meetings? There are a few different kinds of meetings I guess. Obviously it’s hard to keep my head in the game in team meetings where only part of the content is relevant to me, and I often just do something else and then don’t notice when it’s my turn.

    But I’m also finding myself struggling to stay focused during more technical meetings, even when it might just be me and one other person. They’ll be explaining an idea for an implementation and soliciting feedback, but I’ll suddenly realize that my mind drifted off a while ago. This didn’t used to happen this much, and I think it’s because I’m in so many meetings that aren’t actually relevant to me that I’m out of the habit of paying attention! I also find it wayyy harder to stay engaged over Zoom (still mostly remote). Ideas? I think something to do with my hands would help, ideally something subtle enough that it wouldn’t be noticed when I have my camera on, but not sure if there might be other strategies I’m not considering!

    1. Grace*

      For unobtrusive fidget supplies, I’ve had good luck with kneadable art erasers. They take some getting used to for actually erasing things, but you can just work them with your fingers indefinitely – it’s good for them! – and it’s just an eraser, so no one’s likely to complain even if they do see.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      What worked best for me when I had to attend remote meetings was taking notes. Even when some portions of the meeting didn’t apply to me, I still noted down something every once in a while to keep my mind from wandering too far away. And because I was remote, sometimes I would start writing “this is boring but I should pay attention in case they need my input” (or anything along those lines) to acknowledge how I felt but also to talk/write myself back into paying attention.

    3. RagingADHD*

      1) Take notes on paper, preferably with or on a paper copy of the agenda.

      2) Learn to fake it and get caught back up with phrases like:

      I want to circle back on something you said earlier…

      Let me check my understanding. I hear you saying (the last thing you remember before the blip), but I’m not sure how it connects to Y (the thing they just said). Can we go over that again?

      Right, so let’s recap…(Start listing the points you covered, and ask some questions along the way so they get to talking. They will usually finish the list for you )

      You know, a question just occurred to me…(if it’s a good point / question, they will be fine with circling back afterwards).

    4. Mimmy*

      Do you remember when you posted your initial thread? I have trouble with rambling as well and would like to read the suggestions you received.

  111. Viva*

    I. DID. IT. In mid-July, I started job searching and told myself that this time, I wasn’t stopping until I found a job. I’ve worked in food service for almost a decade. I’m now finishing up my first week at my new job! It’s a remote customer service position and I’ve almost doubled my old salary. It’s not my dream job, but I think it’s a good fit for my skills and experience, and I’m so much less stressed and my sleep has improved already.

    1. TheraputicSarcasm*

      CONGRATUMALATIONS! This is going to be a positive first step on the way to your dream job. I have spoken.

  112. NeedThePTO*

    I recently moved from the east coast to a major metropolitan area in the southwest. I’ve had contact with three different companies over the past two weeks and am shocked at their vacation policies. The first one only offered 6 days of PTO a year for the first three years then an increase after that. But the other two companies are offering 5 days of vacation AFTER the first year. In other words, no vacation days for an entire year.
    I’m not a manager but I do have over 20 years of professional industry experience and I’ve never started a job with less than two weeks being offered – and you didn’t have to wait a year to use it.
    I decided not to move forward with two of the companies but I’m at the background check/reference stage with company #3 because the salary is substantially more than what I’m currently making. They have not made me an offer yet, but I could use some tips for negotiating vacation if the time comes.
    My current job provides three weeks of vacation from day 1 so I’d will definitely mention that.
    I honestly can’t imagine not being able to take a day off for an entire year.

    1. fhqwhgads*

      The less you say the better. When I negotiated vacation it went like this “I’ve currently got X vacation days per year, and have for several years. Can you match that?” Then stop talking.

      If they come back with a flat no, you could try to do some convincing, but hopefully they’ll come up, and have no problem given they know your level and should know you wouldn’t want to go back to square one. If they don’t, it tells you something about how they function and you can decide from there.

  113. RAM*

    Success Story!

    I have been in bad work situation for a few years – tons of overtime, understaffing, gaslighting, lack of management.. etc. I was essentially set up to fail. However, I built up the area… and somehow, I don’t know how, succeeded. I even got a promotion (and got my top employees promotions too)!

    Recently, the last straw came in – they just hired me a new executive director 3 months ago. And after a few weeks of headache, thank you to this blog, I realized that it was a situation of “your boss sucks and you’re not going to change him”. I applied to a position I didn’t think I was qualified for because I realized that as a female I was likely underselling myself on WHAT I was qualified for. And guess what?? They gave it to me! A few months after my other promotion!

    I don’t know if it will work out or not, but I’m celebrating taking a stand for myself this weekend and not accepting toxic management.

  114. Did I Imagine This?*

    Help requested:
    I could’ve sworn I read a brief, lighthearted post in the Friday Open section that asked commenters to name their favorite work-related songs/music.
    Was looking forward to seeing the responses—but now I absolutely cannot find that post!
    Did I just imagine it? Does anyone else recall it? Or did I somehow stumble into a parallel universe? Am looking over my shoulder apprehensively, expecting to see Rod Serling any second now …
    Thanks.

    1. Lexi Vipond*

      It’s still here, unless I’m hallucinating it – I remembered ‘9 to 5’ was mentioned, and searched for that.

  115. Luna*

    This is probably a complete non-issue, but I wanted to know others’ opinions on this.
    At work, we have a pre-set line of music to play, similar to what is being played in the entire mall. They seem to mostly be somewhat remixed songs that you hear in the radio, pop, a bit of jazz, stuff like that (think that song that uses parts of Rocket Man lyrics; a new version of Fly Me To The Moon, etc). It’s overall not bad, but it’s still the same songs. Playing all day long.

    It is shuffled, so it’s not always Song A, then B, etc. It can go from Song T to Song C and then to Song K. But this also means that it can happen that Song A plays within an hour of already having been played.

    It’s bothersome to me. I am not good at ‘tuning out’ music because I do need music at work. It helps in getting time to pass. But the same songs all the time is so annoying, especially since I personally don’t like a lot of those songs.

    Bluetooth is an option to get something else playing, and I think my own music would be just fine. It’s not work-inappropriate. Majority of them are not-English in terms of language, but their topics are not rude, crude, or inappropriate. (Especially since we DO play songs like, and I quote, “The fact is we don’t make babies, but we practice” and songs that include the words “Fuck you” frequently.)
    I am tempted to play my own music, but I am erring on the side of caution and have only done it once, and that was with a purely instrumental movie soundtrack. No words, no lyrics, just music. But one time, and only for less than an hour.

    Personally, I would prefer we had a radio station playing, since they tend to play different songs from various decades of music and not just the same… 10 songs. It’s a nice variety, and you even get some basic news being mentioned, which I find nice. It doesn’t feel like you are blocked off from the rest of the world so much, just hearing things like even an update on the weather, so you aren’t surprised when you leave work and it’s pouring rain.

    Should I bring this up with my higher ups and ask if it’s possible to opt for a radio station (I think some other stores or eateries in the mall play those) or if it’s possible for mall management to agree to it?

    1. Luna*

      I do want to add as a bit of detail, some of the songs played at work have been things that have led to me having some (minor) panic attacks on work, as they caused my brain to wander to places that would be triggers, I suppose.

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