open thread – February 3-4, 2023

by Alison Green on February 3, 2023

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Rachel*

    I started a new job in July last year as a Senior Associate at a very large company. During the offer phase, they disclosed that the hiring manager was quitting at the end of the month. I was quite fed up with my previous position, so I bit the bullet and accepted the job.

    Instead of replacing him, the Director (my grand boss) moved a manager from another department and merged his responsibilities. It became clear very soon that my role was designed as ‘doing the lower level menial tasks and taking slack off of my new line manager’s plate’ as he’s now got a lot to focus on. The new manager openly admitted that he’s passing on time consuming stuff to me last minute and that’s the way the Director and himself planned the workflow.

    I feel like this doesn’t align with the position I was hired for. The job description in my contract is super vague so I don’t have a foot to stand on, but everyone has an overall consensus as to what a Senior employee would do in my endustry. My current tasks are lower level than my very first job as an Assistant straight out of Uni.

    The old hiring manager was aware that I was interviewing for a Team Leader position at the time and told me in my interview that looking at my experience I’d progress into that position in no time.

    Earlier in the year when we were talking about my development plan I mentioned this, and my new manager openly told me not to expect anything for at least 2 years.

    I also told him that the previous hiring manager told me that there were a lot of professional development opportunities and that the director would support if I wanted to enrol onto a course. I found one and gave him the details and they offered to cover less than 5% of the cost…

    My new manager wasn’t in my initial interview (probably a red flag I missed) so he tells me he doesn’t know what was discussed and can’t follow through the promises.

    I got quite disappointed in that meeting and said ‘Well I need to think what’s best for me in this case’. I implied I’d look for another job, probably shouldn’t have but felt quite betrayed and it came out. My manager had the attitude of ‘Yup. Understandable. Do whatever you like.’

    I don’t think they care about my employment at all. I don’t feel valued here.

    There’s a recession expected this year but I should I start the job search? I’m comfortable as my tasks are way below my level and I go in to the office only twice a week but career progression is very important for me. Many thanks.

    1. WiscoKate*

      Yes, start a job search. Do you have a reason to believe this job would be recession proof (as much as any job can be)? If you don’t absolutely need the stability, if there is any, it doesn’t seem like there is any downside to looking. They aren’t following through on their promises, you don’t like the work, and your boss doesn’t seem to care if you leave.

    2. DrSalty*

      That sucks :( I’m always of the opinion it can’t hurt to start looking at other options. The best time to find a new job is when you already have one.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      I think yes, start job searching. There may be a recession this year, but there’s really no way to tell if you’re better off (in terms of potential lay-offs) staying at your current company or moving to a new company. In terms of job responsibilities that align with your career goals, you are much better off looking for a new job.

      1. jane's nemesis*

        Agreed, with Hlao-roo, start looking for sure.

        And also, gently (and knowing I would likely have felt/said the same things), you already as much as told him you’re going to start looking, so you may have already put a target on your own back in case of lay-offs. Much better to already have the ball rolling on a job search if so!

    5. HB*

      Yup, start a job search. If you’re comfortable where you are it’s not like you have to jump at the first thing that comes along, but why stagnate if you can find another option?

    6. Parenthesis Guy*

      You have a good manager.

      Your manager needs you to do things that he realizes are different than you expect. He is unable to change these tasks. He understands this screws you over, so he’s done you the courtesy of telling you the truth and agreeing that you should go somewhere else if you want to progress.

      It’s not what you want to hear, but it is what you need to hear. And yes, you should be looking.

      2. Cheezmouser*

        +1

        Other managers with less integrity would string you along, promising to look into that promotion and then do nothing because they need you to perform your current low-level tasks. At least your manager has been upfront and transparent about what the company is and is not willing to do for you. Now you can make your decision based on facts, not false promises. It’s not what you were hoping for from this position, but better to know that now instead of sinking more time into this dead end role.

        1. cncx*

          Yup I had a manager with less integrity who tried to tell me lower level tasks were what I signed up for and that I could do what i thought my job was as « stretch tasks »

          This is a sucky situation for op but at least they got honesty. Also op, you don’t want to stay in this job too long because you could end up like me where I had to go down a level because no-integrity manager kept me down for almost two years.

    7. Person from the Resume*

      There’s no down side to starting a job search. You can afford be selective at this time.

    8. Finding a way out*

      I was in a similar position to you a few years ago. In a nutshell, my current role was ending due to a reorg and I was interviewing internally for a few roles. I ended up accepting a senior level position that turned out to be more of an administrative assistant role. The team’s admin was so terrible that the hiring manager wanted to get another admin to help. Long story short, leadership wouldnt approve an admin, so they merge the admin role with a senior position, and it got approved.

      The role itself was not what was presented to me during the interview process. I stuck it out for a few months, all the while interviewing for external roles. I landed a better paying role within three months and left the company. My advice is to do the same.

    9. Momma Bear*

      Dust off the resume. You have the benefit of being employed and having the time to find a good job not just A job. Sounds like your manager would rather you just stick to your lane than do any kind of growth. Many times if people are stagnant where they are, the only way up is out. Good luck.

    10. Double A*

      Most recessions are not the Great Recession. Even if there is a recession, it doesn’t mean you can’t job hunt. And the mere possibility of a recession should DEFINITELY not discourage you from job hunting. You job hunted during a pandemic; you can definitely job hunt during a might-be-possibly-coming recession.

    11. Jules the 3rd*

      Yes, start the job search. The impact of the possible recession should just be that you don’t quit without a start date at the new job. No quitting bcs you get 10 interviews and ‘surely one will work out’ – take your time, find the right job, and full steam ahead.

      Do put some extra time into researching the company. Avoid companies that are in the news for fraud / distrust (Adani Group, Credit Suisse). Make sure you check them on Glassdoor.

      GOOD LUCK!

    12. Despachito*

      I ‘d definitely look. And the fact that your work is not exhausting is playing in your favor here. You can take your sweet time and pick the best job offered to you.

      It is understandable you feel betrayed. Good luck!

    13. Bexx*

      If you’re unhappy and don’t feel valued, then you should absolutely start job searching.

      That said, there are a few things here that I actually think are pretty normal. At my current company (and many past ones) a Senior Associate is a pretty junior role. (Our progression is Intern > Associate > Senior Associate > Manager > Senior Manager > Director > Senior Director > Managing Director> C suite.) So it’s very normal for them to be assigned time consuming tasks to free up the more senior folks. It’s also a rule that someone can’t be considered for a promotion or a lateral transfer until they have been in a role for 1 yr, and generally, people don’t get promoted until they have 3 years of strong performance reviews under their belt.

  2. Burning Out on Burn Out*

    AAM
    Hi all. I have my first job interview in almost a decade today, I’m very excited and nervous. I have a couple of last minute questions that maybe you all could help me with.

    Question 1

    I’m looking to leave my Senior Director role at Company A, and I’m applying to a Specialist role at Company B (same industries). At my current company and the potential new company, it’s a step down in terms of pay and responsibilities. I just had a big life change and my current employer will expect a level of dedication from me that I no longer have. I think I finally just realized that things were not going to change and they basically just want me to work myself into the ground. We’re severely understaffed, and our last busy season really broke me. Anyhoo, I’m obviously not going to say all that (though it’s a little tempting, haha) but I’m a little stressed about how to answer why I want to leave my current company or why I would be switching to a lower level role.

    Is it okay to say that in addition to wanting a change and learning new skills, I also want a different pace and I have heard good things about company culture and work-life balance about the company I’m applying to? This is definitely true, but at my current company, which expects a lot of overwork, I feel like I’d get rejected for sounding like I didn’t want to dedicate every living breathing moment to work.

    Question 2

    What is something professionally challenging for you that you wish you were better at?
    My truthful answer is I wish I were more comfortable giving critical feedback to people. It’s something that I will do, but I get stressed/anxious when the person reacts badly. I worry about saying this, because I don’t want it to come across as if I absolutely won’t tell people how I feel or provide good feedback.
    Another option is at my current role I struggle to spend time on strategic department work because we are so understaffed that I end up being pulled into urgent day-to-day matters.

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      at my current company, which expects a lot of overwork, I feel like I’d get rejected for sounding like I didn’t want to dedicate every living breathing moment to work.

      It sounds like you should be actively screening against firms that are like this, so I vote for finding phrasing that expresses your desire for a better work/life balance, and then vetting opportunities based on how the interviewer reacts. If they reject you over this, isn’t that for the best anyway?

      1. Burning Out on Burn Out*

        Yes, I don’t want that. Maybe I’m overthinking it, or just brainwashed from my current situation? I guess my fear is that while this new employer doesn’t expect that IN PRACTICE, they still wouldn’t want me to directly state that in an interview.

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          I don’t think there’s anything bad about saying “your company has a reputation as one with a really great work/life balance, and that’s really appealing to me. When I’m at work, I am fully dedicated and a productive employee, but I also appreciate the ability to disconnect in my personal time.” Or something.

        2. PhilG*

          I was asked #1 in the interview for my current position about a year ago. I stepped down from a clinical coordinator role to staffing. My late wife, who had spent 25 years working in ICU/CCU had the onset of severe medical issues and within the year became blind, oxygen dependent, and confined to a wheelchair. My coordinator position required 12-16 hour days and call on weekends. Staffing let me work a set schedule and made caring for my wife manageable. I explained this when asked, and the hiring manager told me later that she appreciated my openness, which was a quality she was looking for in the team she was building.

    2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I think giving feedback is something everyone should work on all the time. NO ONE finds this easy and it’s fine to cite it as a … not a weakness but a thing you want to work on. Time management (which is what the strategic thing boils down to) is also a thing everyone can stand to work on. So both good, generic answers that don’t give the questioner a serious reason to avoid you.

      And yes, it sounds like you need to get out, but I would downplay the work/life balance factor in the interview stage, and instead focus on parts of the prospective job you find professionally interesting.

      1. Buffy will save us*

        I’ve really made an effort to do the negative feedback sandwich- positive thing about the person’s performance (if possible), feedback, positive thing. It makes the conversations less nerve racking.

        1. Not my real name*

          Personally, I hate that. I won’t even hear the positive thing, or at best it will feel insincere.

          1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

            Yes, and it also can severely sugarcoat the message you need to convey – Alison points out about weekly that clear communication, not blurring things, is kindness.

          2. Jay (no, the other one)*

            You’re not alone. I avoid the feedback sandwich. I try to give reinforcing (“positive”) feedback more frequently and all on its own. There’s research showing that in general the ratio of reinforcing feedback to corrective (“negative”) feedback should be about 5:1. I don’t keep track like that – I figure if I really can’t find more behaviors to reinforce than to correct, I have a bigger problem on my hands than my own feedback skills.

          3. KateM*

            I may hear postive part, but I am still left wondering which part of the sandwich was the actual feedback and which was a filler.

      2. RedinSC*

        I just went through this..start my new job in a month!

        For me, for Q1, I was able to explain why I wanted to go from CSuite back to individual contributor by focusing on the job and impact.
        1. I want to get away from daily people management so that I can do more of what I love to do, which is, say, llama grooming.
        2. This position is so attractive because of the deep knowledge I have around XField( local llamas and their special grooming needs) and I will be able to focus all my skills to move that forward for you.

        I got the job!

        For Q2, I think admitting that critical feedback is an area you’d like to improve on is good. You do it, but it’s stressful, and you’re working on ways to be able to do this so it’s less stress on you to get the best outcome for the person receiving the feedback.

        Good luck! You got this!

    3. Jujyfruits*

      Definitely don’t use answer #2 in an interview! The point of that question is to show self-awareness of how you overcame a problem. So talk about how you solve it. Rephrase the question in your mind to: What’s a challenge that you overcame and how did you overcome it?

    4. MigraineMonth*

      I answered question 1 in the cover letter, then in the interviews for my current job. I think I talked about wanting to shift into a less stressful job, but I think your wording is better. Maybe mention something about wanting to work less overtime. The most important part is to state that you understand that the role has lower pay/lower responsibilities and it’s a tradeoff you’re willing to make.

    5. former professor*

      Q1– Is there a way to reframe it as “right now, my role involves wearing a lot of hats [supporting a large number of clients/whatever makes sense in your role], and I’m really excited to be in a role where I can focus on [task you love/building deeper relationships with a smaller number of clients/etc.]”? E.g., when I left academia, I framed it as being spread too thin over multiple roles (teaching, mentoring, research, substantial administrative roles) and wanting to move to a position exclusively focused on research. (It also had the benefit of improving my workload/work life balance, but I think keeping it focused on “I want to spend MORE of my time on X” was more appealing than “I want to spend less time working.”
      Q2– I think talking about the challenge of giving feedback is great if you do it thoughtfully– e.g., I’m working on giving critical feedback to people. I’ve found that often I soften things too much because I am worried they will respond badly, but I’ve realized that it is better for everyone if I can be direct but still constructive.

      1. Burning Out on Burn Out*

        This is so helpful, thank you. There are parts of my current role that I enjoy but don’t get to do as much, and the role I’m applying to has a bigger emphasis on those aspects so I can focus on that!

        For Q2, I think what’s hard at my current job, and not sure if I should weave it in: everyone is so overworked, and way too much is asked of them. It’s hard to go to my direct report, who has been working so much overtime, for not enough pay, and then provide critical feedback about her not coming into the office enough (something my boss told me to do and I ignored). It just feels like kicking someone when they are down. Critical advice I did provide was for her to stop working so much overtime, but she has ignored that. It’s hard, pressure in so many directions.

        1. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

          I think ignoring what your boss told you was EXACTLY the right choice in that moment. If possible, I would encourage you to go to your boss and say “When you asked me to encourage Francisca to come into the office more, you might not have been aware that she has been working really long and impossible hours for a long time, and that I have been advocating for a pay increase that she very much deserves. I think we need to find ways to put LESS pressure on her. How’s that request for additional FTEs coming along?”

        2. Jaydee*

          This is exactly what I did when moving from a role where we we were all overworked and constantly putting out fires and I was absolutely, fried-to-a-crisp burned out. I specifically looked at jobs that were adjacent to my former job (because I loved what I did) but more specialized. I’m a lawyer, so some jobs I applied for were ones where I would be specializing in one or two practice areas versus being more of a generalist. Others (including the job I ended up taking) were government jobs where I would be doing higher level policy or program management work. In cover letters and interviews I mentioned that I was at a point in my career where I wanted to be able to specialize more and either talked about my experience in/why I was passionate about X and Y areas of law or how I felt that doing policy work would allow me to have a more systemic impact on the issues my clients were facing. It worked! I’m now doing a fairly niche area of program and policy work that I really like, and my work-life balance is so much better. (Like, this past year has been more stressful than the previous 3 years, but I just keep reminding myself it’s still only about 75% as stressful as my old job.)

    6. Me ... Just Me*

      I think that Q2 is one that is good to answer as you have been, but also focus on how you’ve overcome the discomfort – they are looking to see how you handle difficult situations and you could always give before/after scenarios: “When I first became a manager many years ago I was more timid in my employee counseling sessions. Now, while still feeling uncomfortable, I am far more proactive and skilled at giving challenging feedback and holding people accountable. For example (scenario). It’s not something that I think anyone really feels comfortable doing, but I am finding that I have become very skilled at handling these types of conversations.”

        1. Me ... Just Me*

          And, you could even pitch it to coincide with your experience that you noted in a prior response here, “In my current work environment many of those reporting to me are beginning to burn out due wearing so many hats because we have unfilled open positions (that have become so common, post Covid) and I’m having to take that into account as I approach individuals to coach them. I really want to make sure that any coaching I do is truly addressing a problem that the employee can adequately be held responsible for and that is important to product delivery. This is a new level of nuance that I’ve only adjusted to in the last year.” … this shows recent growth in this area and the ability to adjust to new, changing circumstances.

    7. CatLady*

      Addressing why you want to leave, maybe something like: “I’m finding that the culture that is evolving in my current position is not one that suits me so I’m looking to find someplace that does. ” Of course they might follow up on that so you could pick a couple other dimensions of your company’s culture that you find annoying but are are easier to discuss.

      Then, you should have a list of questions that will help you probe their own culture which I know Alison has articulated elsewhere. They might be able to guess your true motivations based on these questions but given today’s environment, I’m betting you aren’t the only one asking about flexible schedules, expected onsite/offsite, strategies for dealing with workload spikes and so on.

    8. Laura*

      Since having to recover from burnout myself I always make a point of mentioning something about work-life balance in interviews. I had one recruiter warn me it might put some hiring managers off, but as far as I’m concerned that’s important information about how they think of work-life balance and I probably wouldn’t want to work with/for them!

      I’m pretty sure it’s paid off for me too – my last couple of jobs since instigating this policy have been so much better for me than the one that wore me entirely out. So I’d always advocate for mentioning it.

    9. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think it’s absolutely reasonable to say “I’m looking for a position at this level because I feel like it’s a better match for the kind of work-life balance I want right now than a higher-level position.”

      I wish I were better at project design. I’m actually sort of taking lessons from my boss right now on that subject. Basically, I want to be better at creating ways of getting from point A to point B.

    10. Venus*

      If you can, do a quick calculation about how much you are paid per hour if you account for all the overtime in your current job. If you get paid $75k a year and work 60 hours per week then in a way you’re worse off compared to if you get paid $55k per year and work 40 hours. Yes, one is more money per year, but it is also a lower hourly rate and harder to balance with long-term health. It would be unusual to describe it this way, because we don’t tend to think in hourly wages and my example would traditionally be viewed as a pay cut, but that might help frame it logically.

    11. Need Advice!*

      Since you are asking not about whether the new company offers what you want, but rather how the new company would take your honesty about your burnout in your current company, could you just say something like, “Current company is understaffed, has been for a while, and they have no plans to change that. I’m looking for a job where I can use the skills I have and not worry about putting out fires and constantly doing someone else’s work.”

    12. Burning Out on Burn Out*

      [Update]

      I had my interview, and I think it went well. The only negative thing, which I’m annoyed with myself, is I said “you guys” which is noninclusive language and I’ve been actively trying to teach myself to not say. I saw a post earlier this week about someone who was dropped from a hiring process for saying “you guys” in an interview so my paranoia level is high.

      I ended up mentioning work-life balance a few times, and I liked the interviewers responses to the questions. I hope I’m invited to the next step, but I won’t hear about it for about two weeks as they have phone screenings for ten more days. Wish me luck!

      1. former professor*

        Congrats! One of the things that I have kept as advice from academia is “celebrate every step” (e.g., getting a project funded is a road with a lot of rejections, so don’t wait to celebrate at the end– celebrate when you submit, when you advance in the review process, etc.)– so, I hope you get to celebrate the interview this weekend!

    13. Najek Yuma*

      As I hiring manager, I would be very hesitant to hire someone into an individual contributor role if they were coming from a Senior Director role. I’d be worried they wanted to move up or out very quickly, would get bored with the tasks, or have trouble not being in charge anymore.

      However, you basically have the perfect (true) reasons you don’t want to be a Senior Director anymore! If someone asks you why you want to move back into an IC role, I think the best answer you can give is what you’ve said here:

      “I’m looking for a position with good work-life balance, where I can leave work at work at the end of the day. I’ve found the demands on my time of a being in a senior management position to be more than I expected or want to continue with. Additionally, I’ve learned in my time in management that I’m really uncomfortable giving critical feedback to people, and that it’s obviously very important to be able to do that as a manger. So I’m looking for a role where I can move forward with the elements that I like about working, such as (insert pieces that excite you about the position you are applying for), without the demands of being in management.”

  3. Merp*

    Last year my direct report “Fred” quit his job to join a dubious organisation at a role for which he was clearly ill suited. I expressed my concerns diplomatically but he insisted this was what he wanted to do, so I wished him luck and pointed him to some resources to help with his next job. I also obtained a sizeable exit package for him, and he was aware I went out of my way to organise this. He repeatedly told me how grateful he was and what this meant for him.

    Fast forward to recently. I discovered Fred had actually told multiple people that he never quit, but that I fired him cruelly and out of nowhere. He also told people I refused to sign off on his final pay and when he was finally paid after fighting me for months I cheated him out of his bonus entitlements. All of this is blatantly false.

    This explains some of the odd comments from a couple of other employees after Fred’s resignation. I am angry, hurt, and flabbergasted. This is not a mere misinterpretation of actual events, but an outright lie.

    Being a manager I’m not in a position to go around to other employees, saying, “Hey, you know that rumour you heard about me and Fred – that’s not true and here’s what REALLY happened!” I’ve heard the advice about continuing to be professional and letting my behaviour speak for itself. But my observation is that no matter how hard you work to build a professional reputation, it takes very little gossip for all of that to crumble.

    I asked for advice from someone who is more senior and they said all managers experience some version of this and to write it off as a bad experience. But I remain concerned about how this affects my reputation. While I don’t have many direct reports I do indirectly have a lot of say over a large number of people’s jobs. I don’t want people to go around thinking I am a terrible person who might randomly fire them one day. And yes, I admit, I’m human too and I just don’t want people to think badly of me particularly over something that never happened.

    Help?

    1. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Oh, I’m sorry. No good deed goes unpunished, and so on.

      The only way, I think, is to live it down. After a couple of years in which you DON’T randomly fire people and DO continue to be an ethical and positive person to work with, most people will adjust their attitudes.

      1. XF1013*

        I’m kind of shocked that among so many replies, this is the only one specifically advising OP not to try correcting the record, since Alison’s advice is usually the same. Search the site for “former employee spreading lies” for several examples. OP acknowledged as much.

        If I was one of OP’s subordinates, and I already believed Fred, and OP tried countering Fred’s statements (no matter how generically or gently), I’d be inclined to think that OP was now lying to me on top of treating Fred badly, and it would damage my morale further. Fred appears to have nothing to gain by claiming he was fired and unpaid, while OP definitely has something to gain by claiming that Fred’s departure was handled well, so Fred’s story will hold more weight. OP cannot prove a negative, not without extreme measures like forwarding some old email exchange with Fred discussing terms of his departure, which will come across as unhinged.

        The “live it down” approach is not just about proving yourself by acting professionally and ethically. It’s also about simply letting the liar’s claims fade into memory, especially with future turnover at the company. This will eventually be forgotten.

        I know it hurts, OP. I’ve been lied about too. (A former boss told everyone how he fired me for being a terrible worker, after I quietly resigned and he pressured me to stay.) You sound like a great boss. Keep your head up, let time heal this wound, and take care not to let Fred’s betrayal subconsciously affect your behavior toward future resigning employees who deserve the same consideration that he got.

    2. I should really pick a name*

      What’s the context in which you came across this information?
      Where you able to set the record straight with the people who told you how he’s reporting the situation?

    3. Reba*

      I actually think not saying anything is the wrong move–you can see that it’s not just your personal reputation but also morale among staff that is affected. I’m not sure what reasons you have for feeling you aren’t in a position to correct the record as a manager, but thinking through exactly what constraints there are might help you come up with the approach for talking about it. To your direct reports, I think there would be a lot of value in saying you’ve heard there are some rumors, you want to reassure them that that’s not how it went down, and you don’t fire people out of the blue and punitively cheat them out of money owed. Like, you don’t have to counter every point of the lies or even name Fred, but I think you ought to forthrightly address it.

      1. Excel Jedi*

        I disagree with confronting it head on – it turns into a he said/she said thing.

        However, I think there may be standing to gently remind staff generally of certain things – like the fact that you use PIPs, or that you/the company is invested in making sure people are treated fairly and equitably when they leave, or that you’re not in the business of punishing employees. These things should be said in appropriate contexts, and not all at once – they should be part of reinforcing a culture that you’re already doing the work to make real.

        But I wouldn’t bring up Fred in particular. Rise above that, respect his confidentiality, and both show *and* tell your employees about your general mindset around ending employment.

        1. Bagpuss*

          YEs, I agree – maybe a general,

          “I’ve recently head some odd rumor’s circulating about what happens when someone leaves.

          I just want to clarify what the company policies and our usual processes are – both if someone leaves by choice, but also to briefly touch on what would happen if anyone were fired (if it’s true, you could add ‘happily, in this department, we’ve only ever (or, in the last x years) had people leave by choice, but I did want to go over the steps that would be taken before and after anyone was fired”

          OR you could chat to HR or to your own boss- they might be in a position to have that chat or circulate something which could be a bit more explicit – even if it is to say something such as that “it has come to their attention that a former employee, who resigned and left with a generous package including being pad their (presumably discretionary bonuses) has been making malicious allegations claiming that he was fired withoutwarning and was not properly paid on leaving, and that while, as the person making the claims is no longer an employee, management wants to ensure that the false claims are addressed to ensure that employees can be confident that any disciplinary issues will be dealt with fairly and with the subject having the opportunity to address any issues, and that the company always ensures that anyone resigning is of course paid their full entitlement in their final pay packet, and that again, no manager has, or has tried, to prevent that from happening or to delay or limit the payment made.”

          If anyone makes comments to you directly then I think something like “What an extraordinary thing for him to claim – I’d always thought of him as being a truthful person – are you sure it was actually Fred who said that ?” which is a valid response without actually going into ny detail (and gives the get out for plausible deniability that maybe someone was misrepresenting Fred, as well as yoU!)

        2. Momma Bear*

          This. When a swath of a team was let go at once (some performance, some end of contract) some of those left were shocked. The shocked people needed to know that it wouldn’t happen to them, so we had a meeting with our manager and his boss. They said this is the protocol, this is what happened, we’re sorry that it affected so much of the team and will try to avoid that in the future. If you ever have any concerns about your job security you can talk to us, or Lady at HR. We were reminded how reviews, raises, and PIPs work (and that PIPs aren’t something that’s broadcast), as well as the steps taken when someone is laid off vs fired. We were also reminded about the process for resigning if *we* opted to head out.

          The meeting wasn’t long, but I think it went a long way to reassuring folks and level-setting expectations. Something like that might be good for OP here.

      2. Unkempt Flatware*

        I agree. I have had a boss who was good at addressing rumors and she did so without emotion. She was concise and simply said, “I’ve been made aware of a rumor about X and I wanted to correct this with you, my team, to relieve what might be some confusion” or something. I’m not a wordsmith but I do think you need to tell your team they are safe and sound with you.

        1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

          I agree fully with this. This isn’t something that gets lived down after a long time of professional behavior from the OP. It gets filed away in people’s minds that OP is generally nice but there was this one time they were a real asshole to some guy.

      3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Same. “I am hearing that there’s some concern about previous team members’ departure. Obviously I don’t want to share folks’ private business, but I assure you, I do not fire team members out of the blue without attempting to resolve concerns, I absolutely do not stand between team members and their earnings or benefits, and I would hope that the way I have conducted myself over the last x many years would speak to my favor when these rumors are being passed around.”

        That’s a little awkward, but. Y’know. “I wasn’t a flaming jerk before, why would you think I would suddenly become one now?”

        1. Sara without an H*

          I like this script. (Actually, I like both your scripts, but the first one is more useful in a general professional situation.)

          Where I think OP needs to focus is reassuring their direct reports that these are baseless rumors and that they don’t need to fear that OP will suddenly morph into a werewolf and start firing everybody in sight.

          If the OP runs into Fred in any professional venue, the correct response would be icy politeness.

        2. Venus*

          I would make it a bit more generic, and more about what would be done when someone in the group wanted to leave.
          “I have heard concerns about recent departures. Know that I work with people to address concerns with their performance, and if they choose to leave I am careful to get everyone their earnings and benefits and when possible would advocate for a departure bonus.”

      4. Artemesia*

        This. You don’t have to name Fred (make sure he is on a do not hire list though). You heard some ‘rumors’ that someone was fired and denied last paycheck and that you have no idea where that rumor started, but it is completely not the case. No one has been fired in the last X years (to cover Fred, if this is true) And in a case where someone were to be let go, their last paycheck would be given on the spot. It is one of those weird things where something must have gotten twisted in the telling. You have no idea why.

    4. Onward*

      I’d consider speaking to an attorney to at least draft a cease and desist letter for you. You can also send one of these yourself, but it comes with an extra “oomf” when it comes from a lawyer. This is an example of slander: he’s speaking a falsehood about you either in order to affect your reputation, or with complete disregard to the truth and its affect on you. The only defense he would have to this is if his statements were actually true (which I trust from your statement that they were not) or that it was his opinion (Nope. This isn’t, like, your opinion, man.)

      Any lawsuit associated this probably wouldn’t be worth the expense, as you would need to prove damages in order to get any kind of decent payout, which is difficult, but Fred doesn’t need to know you probably won’t actually sue him. The threat usually does fine on its own. Regardless, contact Fred and tell him to cut it out.

      1. Foxy Hedgehog*

        I disagree with this advice.

        You would be giving Fred exactly the kind of validation he wants–now he can show people this weird letter from a lawyer telling him to stop talking. He would be able to stop lying about how you fired him and start telling the truth about how you are threatening him with legal action in order to shut him up.

        1. Onward*

          Yeah, I suppose he could do that. I tend to lean toward the ‘what they’re doing is wrong and they need to know it’ responses, but that’s a fair point. I can’t stand the Freds of the world who turn their issues into everyone else’s.

      2. legal rugby*

        As an attorney, this is a pretty shitty response, that is essentially going nuclear on something that may leave a bad taste in your mouth but isn’t actually harming anyone. I would not recommend this, if for no other reason that as in house counsel, if I heard one of my employees did this, I would be looking to gentle remove THAT person for opening us up to liability and/or abuse of their position.

        1. Co-Brainstorming?*

          Whoa. Wait. Are you telling another commenter that their comment was shitty? Please don’t do that if that’s what you really did here. “I disagree for X reason” is good but that seemed quite rude.

          1. legal rugby*

            No. I’m saying that drafting a cease and desist and claiming slander is both a bad course of action and one that demonstrates a lack of understanding of what legal recourses are for.

    5. MigraineMonth*

      It might be worthwhile to go over your system for addressing issues in your next one-on-one with your reports. For example, that you’ll start by working with them on the issue, then explicitly warning them that the issue could result in firing, then put them on a PIP, then fire them if you don’t see improvement. Explain which issues would get someone fired immediately (e.g. theft, harassment, etc).

      You’ll want to be clear that you’re sharing this information because you’ve heard some worries around the office, rather than because you think your report will have any of those issues. Don’t mention the previous report.

    6. HT*

      Honestly, I think that this is something that you can talk about and should address. At least with your own team and potentially with peers who can help to address with their teams if the topic comes up.

      I would set time with your team, if you have a recurring staff meeting that’s ideal, and address it head on. I would let them know you are addressing it purely so that they know this isn’t something that will happen to them. Focus on making the team feel secure that this isn’t how you or the company does business. Also, don’t accuse Fred of anything. Just focus on correcting the issues the rumours have caused.

      Language such as “I want to bring up a recent rumour that you may or may not have heard. It has been brought to my attention that many in our organization believe that Fred was fired from our organization, and that is not true. I want to clear this up as it’s unfair to Fred that anyone would think he was fired rather than choosing to leave on his own terms. I also want to make sure that this team feels secure that neither I nor this company would fire someone without context or prior discussion. I, personally, take this very seriously and want you to feel safe and that I will always work to provide you with feedback, both positive and negative. This is all I’m going to say on the matter, but I wanted to clear that up. ”

      You don’t have to address every issue he brought up. It’s enough to clear the air on the issues that may directly impact your team’s ability to feel secure in their employment.

      4. Bagpuss*

        This is excellent, and it doesn’t at any stage accuse Fred of lying. (even though he is !)
        Also it reinforces the fact that you deal with them fairly and openly because that’s what you are doing – openly addressing the issue, being fair (Fred wasn’t fired, no one is getting in trouble for spreading the allegations)

      5. Alex*

        Yes, I think this is the way to go. It doesn’t go into what Fred did, got, or said, and gives him enough benefit of the doubt to make it seem like you are not “refuting” him or arguing against something he is saying, but clearing up some false information that could harm your team.

      6. anon for this*

        This is great because it doesn’t even pin the rumor on Fred. There is a certain someone where I work who has told me various scenarios of this type over the years. The stories always seemed a little off to me: shocking on the surface, but also, it was just this one person who always seems to be “in the know.” You might know for sure this comes from Fred. But it might be as shocking to him as it is to you!

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          And it isn’t defensive–if anything, it comes across as defending FRED: “he deserves better than to have people think he was fired!”

    7. Cut & Run*

      I think you can say he left if people talk to you about it. A variation of a story is one thing, but this is a WHOLE new narrative. I agree with you, it takes so little bad to knock out a whole lot of good, so I am sensitive to your concern.

    8. Person from the Resume*

      I do not understand why you would not contradict factually false information. Don’t get into the mew job at all – Fred quit and he got a sizable exit package.

      Also I did not / no one fired Fred. He got his final paycheck and bonuses and more promptly at the conclusion of his employment.

      No options or badmouthing Fred; just the facts.

      1. RecentlyRetired*

        As it’s the beginning of a new calendar year, can HR generate statistics on the company as a whole, and by categories of employees of how many were hired/layed off/quit/fired/retired for the year 2022? And have HR present it at staff meetings throughout the entire company or site? A quarterly “State of the Company” was standard at the large company I used to work for.
        This could (hopefully) be substantiated evidence that there were no firings/lay offs in your department.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        It’s not really the main point but I did wonder why Fred got an “exit package” for quitting? Surely the usual process is just that you give your 2 weeks or whatever notice and then get paid for the time you worked? Were there some special circumstances of Fred’s quitting that have got warped in the retelling?

    9. Not A Manager*

      Can you address the general situation without getting into particulars? “I understand that there’s been some discussion recently about how Company handles resignations and what I in particular try to do as a manager. Here at Company, when someone resigns they are afforded… In addition, when I am able I try to assist individuals with their particular needs when they decide to leave their position at Company. Generally people leave Company when they decide it’s best for their careers, and that’s certainly been the case recently, but if someone is ever laid off or let go, both Company and I do the following…”

    10. MurpMaureep*

      First, I’m sorry this happened to you. I know it can be demoralizing to feel like you went out of your way for someone and have it turn nasty.

      I have to ask, do you trust the source for this info about Fred? Is it possible they are exaggerating or fanning flames for their own reasons? Also, did Fred’s new job not work out for him and is he looking again? I can see, perhaps, Fred bending the truth because he was embarrassed if the new position went south. Not to excuse lying, but it’s understandable that Fred wouldn’t want to admit he chose to leave and you went to bat for him. It could be easier to say “I was fired unfairly” than “I chose to leave a good position with a supportive boss for something less stable and now it’s backfired”.

      In terms of what to do, I think it’s totally acceptable to correct misinformation in the moment, but going on a Truth Campaign could make you look defensive (not fair I know). When you correct misinformation, phrase it not as “Fred’s a lying liar pants” but “I’m so sorry to hear he read the situation that way. As I recall I advised him to consider the suitability of the new job and tried be as supportive as possible during his transition. But of course we all see things through our own lens, I hope he can land on his feet”.

      I experienced something similar with a former employee who left for what he thought were greener pastures, failed badly in the new job, and then was upset when I couldn’t/wouldn’t rehire him. I found out from a close friend that he was trashing me on social media. I mostly ignored it but did have a bit of a last laugh when he kept giving me as a reference in his job search (!)

    11. Burning Out on Burn Out*

      I’m so sorry, I would be so upset too. What a jerk and just…why?

      If you want some commiseration, I had an ex (not work related!) do something similar and that was actually worse than the actual breakup. Let me preface this by saying, this was half a lifetime ago and I’m not still mad but it still occasionally leaves me with a big question mark when people bring him up, since we dated for a few years and I still know people that know him.

      He broke up with me because he wanted to date someone else and had already started dating her, which I was crushed about at the time but I know happens a lot in young relationships. I am actually surprised how understanding I was at the time, and assumed that we would stay friends since our lives were so entangled. We spent everyday together and had many mutual friends. But after he broke up with me, he blocked me on everything even though I was not reaching out to him and then I started hearing wild, untrue stories that he was spreading about me, like that I hated his mom (not true at all) and that I had forbid him from following his music career (what?) and just like a mean smear campaign.

      I’m guessing that he knew he might look bad, so he wanted to make me look worse, but I was so shocked that someone who had previously been so kind to me would just flip. Luckily, after a while I doubt people that knew me believed the stories but it still really stung at the time.

      OP, I bet that people that actually know you would not believe Fred’s ridiculous stories. If he did something like that to you, someone who treated him well, I imagine there are other odd behaviours he is exhibiting that will hurt his credibility. I’m sorry that happened to you.

      1. Limotruck87*

        Burning Out, I definitely sympathize. Again, not work related, but I also had an ex who left me for a close mutual friend of ours, blocked me everywhere etc. Both of them started accusing me of badmouthing them to mutual friends and ‘stalking’ them online, and blaming the end of our marriage on me for ignoring his needs (needs that involved messaging other women and refusing to come home after work). This was especially hurtful as I felt I had gone out of my way not to put friends in the middle and to be as diplomatic and respectful as I could. It felt like, “Isn’t it enough that you have each other now? He picked you, why can’t that be enough? Why do I now have to be the villain in this situation?”

        As you said, when it’s a fairly black-and-white situation where it’s obvious SOMEONE has clearly behaved badly, if they’re not mature enough to accept and own that it was the person in the mirror, well, then it must be you. And yes, there’s also a bit of knowing they’ve made themselves look bad, and they think if they tarnish your reputation it will balance the scales a bit.

        I agree that in a lot of situations, the less you say, the more room the other party has to make themselves look unhinged. If an opportunity comes up to correct the record in a calm, dignified way, do so, but otherwise people are good at making themselves look bad without your help.

    12. Silverose*

      Check with your upper management or HR before following through with any of the rest of this, but….

      Most companies, when called for a reference check, are allowed to give dates of employment and whether the employee is re-hireable – people know that if someone is not re-hireable then they were involuntarily terminated. If Fred is still listed as re-hireable in the company system (which, presumably, he is), you should be able to say as much if someone brings it up directly with you – “That’s interesting. Fred is rehireable.” Everybody and their brother knows that means he wasn’t fired without you saying he wasn’t fired, and that alone will get people questioning everything else about Fred’s story.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        Although ironically, if there’s anyone you want on the “do not rehire” list it’s Fred…

    13. The Other Dawn*

      I’m sure Fred doesn’t want people to know he wasn’t suited for the job and he’s probably doesn’t want to tell people he quit. It’s much easier, and probably more satisfying for him, to say he was fired.

      The senior person who advised you is correct. Just go on being professional and don’t try to correct the record. I’ve learned over many years of being a manager that there are a lot of Freds out there. It doesn’t matter how good you treat them, how fair you are, etc. They are always going to just be who they are. I went through this with two people in the last five years in my department. It was really difficult to keep my mouth shut and not try to counter what were clearly lies and gossip, but I kept quiet and it turned out that most people knew what these people were really like and didn’t buy into their lies.

  4. Strawberry Ice Cream*

    People often discuss referrals to EAPs here, and I remember an interview with an EAP coordinator a while back. I’ve still never been 100% clear on what they actually do though, or whether they’re helpful?

    Mine just sends judgy emails telling us we’d be healthier if we took more time to exercise and eat vegetables. I mean, they’re not wrong, but I know broccoli exists, and this doesn’t seem like much of an employee benefit to me. Any referrals seem to be along the lines of, “yes, you probably have insurance through your job here. You should read your plan to see what’s in it.”

    Has anyone gotten more concrete help from an EAP? Is mine just poor, or do I fundamentally misunderstand what they’re supposed to do?

    1. Trina*

      My understanding is that EAPs can provide limited counselling services/sessions for free, whether the need for counselling is related to work responsiblities or not. The emails are maybe just a way that the EAP is trying to remind folks that they exist and are available? But maybe this is also the sort of thing that varies by workplace?

    2. ONFM*

      If your org is like mine, our EAP coordinator is not an EAP provider – they’re actually in charge of all of our “health and wellness” programs. For EAP, they just process the forms/referrals as necessary. They don’t actually dispense therapy or anything like that. They’ll give employees the hotline number to make their own EAP appointment, and then produce some sort of regular report (“In 2022, XXX employees used our EAP program…”). Our actual EAP services are provided by an outside vendor/network.

    3. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      We’ll, I know a guy at my company got hooked up with some legal advice when his neighbors built a fence well inside their property line.

    4. Former Gremlin Herder*

      Having used mine at an old job, it is great if you have a specific need for something like therapy or legal help in the short term. Mine paid for a few months of bi-weekly therapy before I switched to insurance. I think people will refer employees when it’s clear they’re struggling because it’s one of the few resources a company can offer. It’s not a cure all or a replacement for solid benefits, but it’s nice in specific situations.

      1. Ama*

        Yes, I had a serious life event (fire in my apartment building that rendered it structurally uninhabitable) and ended up using our EAP both to find a moving company on short notice and both for immediate help (I had a panic attack from the stress of the situation while my significant other was on a cross-country flight, the EAP connected me to an emergency counselor to help talk me down) and to identify some long-term counseling when I had a bad anxiety flare-up a year later.

    5. ZSD*

      I’ve worked with EAPs from two different employers who were definitely more helpful than that. They both offered free counseling services, and one also offers regular panels/talks on subjects like dealing with grief, having a parent with Alzheimer’s, etc.

    6. ThatGirl*

      EAPs can cover a wide range of things. They’re frequently known as a source of referrals to see a counselor, but many of them also offer things like referrals to lawyers, insurance-related issues, elder care resources, and more random things like party planning. And yes, some are more wellness focused. Just depends on what service your company contracts with.

      I haven’t used my EAP, but back in the day my husband got a counselor referral from one and three free sessions.

    7. Anonosaurus*

      Our EAP is probably fine for what most people need, but I’ve never had good experiences with it. I understand that I’m an outlier in what I need support with and is more complex than average, but both the counseling and legal referral services have failed to actually help me. I think it’s just window dressing for the company to seem like it cares without investing in policies and practices that would actually help its employees.

    8. The Crowening*

      At my old workplace, the EAP was actually an on-site counselor (there were two) and when work and home stress was becoming unmanageable and overwhelming and I was starting to buckle from the weight of too much pressure, I made an appt. The person I saw was great, it was free, and I felt really supported. Not that he had any way to fix any of the issues, but he was the first person I remember saying to me during that time that I couldn’t physically do all the things people were expecting me to do, and I would have to start letting some people be disappointed, and that’s okay. I definitely found it helpful. I think we met 3 or 4 times over the course of several weeks or months.

    9. The Prettiest Curse*

      The EAP at my old job helped me to resolve a billing issue with my insurance. They also had a service where they could research local vendors for you – say if you were looking for a plumber or someone to build a fence – they’d look at vendors in your area and give you a list. Some EAPs are great, some are not and the range of services can vary a lot.

      If you have a good range of services, your HR will probably send round periodic emails saying “did you know your EAP can do this?” We also had a poster in the office listing available services and the EAP contact info, so that may help you work out what’s on offer.

    10. londonedit*

      We don’t get any sort of emails like that from ours. In fact we don’t get any communication from the EAP itself, it all comes from HR and all they do is remind us periodically that the EAP exists for all staff to use if they need to, and give the relevant contact details and details of what the EAP can do. I’ve never used it but from the information it seems as if ours can connect you with up to six sessions of counselling/therapy, and also connect you with advice on all legal matters whether they’re work-based or not – so you could contact them if you’re going through a divorce or a bereavement or mental health issues or whatever and they’ll connect you with services to offer support and advice.

    11. This Old House*

      Our EOP is through the local government, which means – as I understand it – it doesn’t pay for anything. It can refer you to services, but then you pay out of pocket. I’ve never actually tried to use it, because it doesn’t seem very useful.

      1. Some words*

        Sometimes getting those referrals is very helpful.

        At my employer the EAP covers not just me, but my family as well, which I didn’t realize. So when my adult sibling (not living with me) had a need, they could directly contact the EAP number and be steered to appropriate resources (privately).

    12. Quality Girl*

      I get unlimited free telehealth therapy through my EAP (I’m in healthcare so gosh do we need it) and my husband got 5ish free sessions with a therapist. He still uses the same therapist, he just pays for it now (or uses insurance maybe, dunno). I haven’t used any other services but our experience has been great so far.

    13. I edit everything*

      Wasn’t there an interview with an EAP employee on AAM not too long ago? She described how the EAP company she worked for operated and how she interacted with the employees of client companies.

    14. Pink Brownie*

      Our EAP will refer you to a therapist or other counselor and it pays for the first 3 visits, thereafter our health insurance pays for the rest of the sessions if needed. It also offers referrals to legal help, financial help, even child and elder care. For the employer (for me) it facilitates if I have to refer someone due to, say, alcohol or drug issues, things of that nature. The employee can be referred and made to complete the program as a condition of continued employment. As a federal contractor, we have certain rules we must follow regarding alcohol and drug use.

      So… your EAP might be particularly bad, or it might be great but you haven’t yet used it as intended *shrug*?

    16. Strawberry Ice Cream*

      Seems mine is just not great. I asked them about some of the things y’all are mentioning, like legal council, and they don’t offer that. They have some lists of local law firms and financial advisors that seem to be pulled from Google without any vetting, and it’s on the employees to contact and pay for those services on our own.

      I just checked their page to make sure I’m not misrepresenting them, and their listed resources consist of a wellness program that suggests walking at lunch, and a monthly newsletter, which is where they inform us that vegetables exist and cake is bad for you.

      Thanks for the responses though! Good to know, I suppose.

    17. no thank you*

      I think it will vary from company to company (or provider to provider) but for me, I used it a few years ago when my daughter was having a lot of anxiety and depression and I wanted to get her into counseling but didnt know where to start. I called the EAP, she found a list of therapists that were in our health network and set up our first appointment for me. Going through the EAP meant that the first three sessions were free, and after that were covered by my health insurance. Our EAP offers three sessions free for any separate event – so I could get another three sessions if I wanted grief counseling, or my other kid needed something, etc. That alone was worth it, but having someone do the legwork of going through the list and calling therapists to find who could take a new patient was really really helpful.

    18. estimator*

      Our EAP is an outside vendor (maybe associated with our insurance?). We have a phone number to call and they route you to the proper people to speak with. I used it once to help find some home care for my grandfather after he was in the hospital. They were helpful getting me started and giving me contacts for various places and organizations that could help. I could have done an internet search myself, but the EAP rep had some other suggestions that I wouldn’t have thought of. Ours also does the same kind of thing for legal questions, financial stuff, healthcare, daycare, etc. and offers a few virtual therapy sessions per year.

    19. cat socks*

      I contacted my EAP about a year ago for therapist referrals. They sent me a list of therapists in my area and I got eight (I think?) free sessions with them. I never actually followed through to book an appointment with any of them, but I have the list handy for future reference.

    20. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Our EAP Coordinators are regular staff with no particular credential requirements who funnel the health/welfare/eat your broccoli newsletters from on high, but also are the ones who answer the calls from staff who call to request referral help. So — Jane takes Fergus’ call about what’s available in our area/through our work to support him suddenly having to find a nursing home for his mother and Jane has a resource guide and can kind of talk him through his steps because she’s gotten some training about what’s out there. Or Jane answers Wakeen’s call about an uncomfortable work environment and can help to navigate an HR process that sidesteps his sketchy supervisor. Not actually counseling per se, but knowledgeable assistance.

    21. Kimmy Schmidt*

      The biggest thing my EAP helped with was payment. I got 5 therapy sessions for free through my EAP, but was able to pick my own therapist. My workplace EAP just had to fill out a specific form that basically said “yes Kimmy Schmidt works here as is using the Employee Assistance Program”. I think they also provide things like free sessions with lawyers, nutritionists, and financial counselors.

      Mine also helps people new to the area find “work-life solutions” like childcare, movers, mortgage brokers, and contractors. You could find that info yourself with a Google search, but they have a good list of quality and reliable ones ready to go so you don’t have to weed through anything.

    22. Momma Bear*

      Mine doesn’t send emails about health. Ours is more of a referral service. You could, for example, get a few sessions with a therapist that they help find for you to get mental health support. They may also help with finding child or elder care services. They’re more of a concierge desk than a service provider.

    23. Generic Name*

      Yes. I had 3 free phone counseling sessions right after my divorce. I was, quite frankly, messed up and confused and talking to the counselor helped me to realize that how I had been treated was not OK and that talking to someone was helpful. After I used my free sessions, I pursued therapy through my insurance.

    24. WantonSeedStitch*

      Ours does a lot. If you want to see some of the services they offer, the company my employer contracts with is called KGA, Inc. You can look them up.

    25. EAP*

      My brother in law is a alcoholic. When he was caught coming in after lunch drunk, he was given a list of EAP sources for alcohol treatment by HR and told he didn’t take advantage of one, he’d be let go. He did inpatient rehab for 30 days he found through the EAP, outpatient therapy through the EAP and is much healthier. He’s also still employed there.

    26. Girasol*

      That doesn’t sound like EAP. It sounds more like one of those wellness program companies that some organizations contract with.

    28. Sparkle llama*

      I have used my EAP twice for mental health services. In both cases I was able to call the phone number and get immediate assistance with the situation (I both cases I think I called a few separate times when I was feeling very anxious, including in the middle of the night). Once (for grief counseling) I was referred for three therapy sessions paid by the EAP and the second time I needed a specialized therapist that wasn’t covered by the EAP but they did the leg work of finding someone with that specialty who was accepting new patients and my insurance.

      1. anonymous emu*

        I’ve used EAPs a few times at past employers with varying levels of quality. The best ones were like the above commenters who got a brief legal consultation for legal issues (I had a terrible landlord at the time), referral to counselling for an unexpected death in the family and getting resources to get started when I was trying to figure out aging parent stuff.

        The worst ones were a website with links to articles that read like brochures with over simplistic advice you could get elsewhere.

        Both good and bad ones had boilerplate shaming emails like that, I always assumed it was part of the package my employer purchased, some employers sent them out and some didn’t. Some were not just health, like tax time tips/reminders, avoiding holiday stress etc. The quality varied among different EAP’s, too.

        Some also had occasional on site workshops like how to communicate more assertively etc. in the before times.

    29. I'm just here for the cats*

      EAPS vary depending on the company
      there can be really good ones and bad ones. However it sounds like what you have is more of a employee wellness program type of thing not a true employee assistance program. Now maybe your company puts the two together.
      A true EAP will have things like ways to get free counseling, financial assistance, legal aid. Things like that. I never hear from my EAP because it’s not something that is continuously contacting you.

    30. Emily Dickinson*

      Mine offers counselling for a variety of issues. Recently I met with someone for some objective perspective on a parenting concern. Previously I used my spouse’s when some life stuff got overwhelming. That counsellor recommended getting a house cleaning service which has been one of the best possible things for my mental health the last few years!

    31. RedinSC*

      The Eap acts as a clearinghouse if sorts. You call with an issue and the refer you to a resource.

      Recently I’ve contacted mine for referral to and eldercare advocate and short term counseling to help me deal with stress.

      The Eap doesn’t do the counseling, the refer you to a vetted resource in your area.

  5. Maternity leave advice*

    I’m starting my parental leave in six weeks. My last day is scheduled for March 17 (barring me going into labour unexpectedly before then). I’ll be on leave until the beginning of September next year. I’ve begun trying to wrap things up/transfer them.

    If anyone who has taken parental leave has any tips or advice I would appreciate it. Since I’m not allowed to work when I’m on leave I want to get everything in order since I’m going to be gone for almost 18 months. My manager is helpful but she’s new so I’m mostly taking the lead myself. Open to advice from those who have been there.

    1. kiwiii*

      I do not have advice, but I’m curious where you’re located that you’ll be gone for 18 months? That sounds like a dream.

      1. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

        Seriously, we were THRILLED when our org allowed 12 weeks of paid parental leave… the US sucks sometimes :(

    2. Massive Dynamic*

      From this point on, every time you do a work task, document the task at the same time (with screenshots). Good luck and I hope you have a great leave!

      2. Lyudie*

        Oh this is a great idea. When I switched jobs a while back, it was hard to remember all the things I wanted to document in the transition documents.

      4. Hanani*

        There’s a program called Tango that will help document workflow that involves lots of clicking. I haven’t used it yet, but a colleague recommended it

    3. Lizy*

      Congrats!!!!

      Since you’re taking such a long leave, the biggest piece of advice I have is FORGET ABOUT WORK lol. Do what you can to get work settled and then let it be. Will you have a crapton to come back to? Yes. Will it be a complete pain in the butt and you’ll have some fires to put out? Likely, yes. Will it be worth it to be in complete denial about it for the 18 months you’re on leave. ABSOFREAKINLOTELY.

      And remember – kids are SO different so don’t compare your parenting or their abilities. Whether it’s potty training or breastfeeding or bottle or holding head up or WHATEVER. My 3 biological kids hit milestones at completely different times, one was a pain in the butt to get to breastfeed but did for 18 months, one had no interest and was bottle-fed, one started walking literally on her 1st birthday, one still has a bottle (sippy cup) of milk at bedtime and he’s 2 1/2. So yeah. Embrace the craziness :)

      And congrats.

    4. Daymom*

      When I came back from maternity leave, I scheduled my return so that I worked 2 days the first week, 3 days the second week and then finally 5 days the third week. It was a good way to get used to being back to work.

      Both times I took leave, I was gone 12 weeks and left detailed instructions on work in process. I expected the people who I left things with would, you know, actually do the work that I transitioned to them. Annoyingly, they did not do anything either time. So I came back to things right where I left them. You probably don’t expect to still have anything left to do since you will be gone for so long (lucky you!), but I would be prepared for the possibility that none of your plans for work actually got done.

    5. OrdinaryJoe*

      The best advice I have is … you’re going to be gone for 18 months, no matter how much you plan for, there will probably be massive changes by the time you get back. New people, new procedures, new fires that came & went, etc. It very well may feel like a brand new job after 18 months.

      If you can stay in touch off hours and casually with even just work friends – lunch or drinks or just chatting, it will help keep you at least somewhat in the loop of the big changes that happen.

      I’d also keep up to date on basic software and program changes. You don’t want to have to relearn everything!

    6. Rana*

      It’s a minor one but one thing that is helpful to the people left behind is a pretty comprehensive list of who they should call for each type of question they would normally go to you for. This is especially useful if you are in a smaller team and have a range of responsibilities. Similarly a list of where information is stored or logins to various portals and whatnot if you are the only one who normally uses them (i.e. I was the one who renewed our business license, so I made sure I left the login information for the city’s website for whoever would do that while I was out).

    7. SBT*

      I run my own consulting business where I fill in for leaders on leave or cover during a transition/vacancy. I wrote this post on LinkedIn last year, but hopefully some of it can be helpful here. Keep in mind that this is aimed for much shorter leaves than 18 months, but much of it might be helpful still.
      – Two to three weeks out from leave, have your temporary replacement join all meetings.
      – Two weeks out, start Ccing your temporary replacement(s) on emails.
      – One week out, email key stakeholders to let them know who to contact (don’t forget about external partners and vendors!).
      – Create a leave document that includes an overview of your work streams; the status of each task/activity in that area; the owner, approver, and who to ask for help in each area; links to resources; and criteria for success (i.e. What should have happened on this while you’re gone? What would be a good state for it to be in when you return?).
      – Create a calendar showing key deadlines and focus areas for each work stream by week.
      – For responsibilities you’re delegating to peers, direct reports, or an external consultant, make sure it’s clear what type of decision-making rights those people have, and what things need approval from a higher-up.
      – If you manage a team, give your coverage person a quick run-down of how to best manage individuals on your team. They won’t have as much time to develop strong relationships and figure out how your staff works, so set them up for success from the get-go.
      – For any cross-functional projects you lead, give your replacement a heads-up on landmines and internal politics at play.
      – If there have been any major issues or problems just resolved, fill in your replacement. You’d be surprised at how often things you’ve put to bed just raise right back up, usually while you’re gone and unavailable.
      – Create and share a document with all your logins and password information.
      – Review folders and documents in your Google drive/other storage. Make sure to give access to all folders and documents to your temporary replacement and teammates. Some documents may even need ownership shifted.
      – Figure out what decisions, changes, or news (if any) you’d like to be contacted about while you’re out (things like staff changes, key decisions that might impact you when you return, etc.).
      – Pick someone on your team to be the gatekeeper of any contact you do want. Tell people to contact your designee who will pass along the message (or not if the person knows it doesn’t fall into your “Contact Me If” criteria). Now unplug.

    8. allathian*

      Congratulations!

      I was out for 2 years. Granted, I had a coworker with pretty much the same job description, and my employer hired a temp to cover for me during my absence.

      I wasn’t *allowed* to work during my maternity/parental leave. In my case, they disabled my logins and took away my work phone. At the time, I had a desktop computer and no way to work remotely, so I was completely out of the loop, and if I’m honest, glad to be. About two weeks before I returned to work, I met with my boss to talk about it. I was able to return in the middle of the week, and for the first few months, I worked a 6-hour workday so that my toddler didn’t have to spend all day in daycare.

    9. Employed Minion*

      In my department, our practices and guidelines are ever evolving and there isn’t really any documentation. It leaves people floundering when they return from longer leaves. If your workplace is even a little like that, it could be really helpful to ask a coworker to document these things for you

    10. Pink Flamingo*

      Congratulations!
      My advice is a little different from the others. Write a personal document dot pointing of your work achievements, metrics, examples of praise (email yourself to personal email, those emails, if you’re allowed!), etc. Update your resume. Point being…it’s all fresh/accessible to you currently. It may be a hazy memory in 18 months!

    11. Ho-Ho-Kiss*

      Speaking not as a parental leave-taker but as someone that recently left a long term contract position, I would advise training whomever will take your place such that they can go through at least on full “cycle” of your work (whatever that looks like) so that you will be there to answer questions. I’m in accounting, so that meant making sure my replacement was fully able to handle a month-end close. Of course, this won’t work with some jobs, but the point is that you want to be there to answer typical issues and scenarios with them so they will know what to do/where to find info on it when you’re gone.

  6. Can I?*

    I’m considering leaving a company that I have worked at for a long time. I’ve built a lot of processes, networked a lot, and I’m becoming pretty respected in the field which feels good. I have a question about the legality of taking resources with me when I leave. I definitely do not want to do anything illegal, but I’m not sure if this is:
    Over the years I have built a spreadsheet that has contact information and mailing addresses for institutions that our clients live at, attend, work at etc. All of this information is public and available online, it’s not private contact information that I received by being an employee of my job. I scoured the internet for the information, and of course can do it again, it’ll just take a long time. None of our client names are on the spreadsheet. Would it be illegal for me to make a copy of this spreadsheet to take to another job?
    These contacts are not anything that pays money to the org, or anything that would be considered competition, it’s just stuff I compiled on my work laptop over the years.

    1. Susan Calvin*

      Oh, I think I know exactly what kind of job you do – but no, it’s a work product, it belongs to your employer. I don’t know if it’s intellectual property, exactly, but ethically it would be the same kind of thing as me taking along a piece of code or a best-practice document I’ve written – which I really, really wouldn’t.

      2. Database Developer Dude*

        Interesting. What if the piece of code exists inside your head and is the best way to write something? Can you re-use that as long as you don’t physically take code from the office?

        1. Green great dragon*

          If it’s in your head that’s fine – they can’t remove everything you’ve learnt. You probably won’t remember precisely. Taking written work is different.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I think it’s going to depend on the field. In mine, that absolutely would not be okay. The client list belongs to the company regardless of your time spent compiling it. Why would you want it unless you were planning to use it? That gets into non compete territory too. If it’s something like a list of nursing homes memory care units in the state where you just want to keep for recommending later, could you suggest making a blog post sharing that information with the public? Then you as a member of the public could access it. That would also be a way to greenlight from management indirectly. But yeah, unless it’s something like that I really doubt it.

    3. ThatGirl*

      I’m curious what the benefit of having this information is. But regardless, it sounds like it might not be illegal but also might not be a great idea?

      1. Can I?*

        I will likely go into another job where I will need to get this information again, so I was thinking of saving myself the hassle but based on comments and my own uneasy feeling about it, probably not a good idea. Oh well!

        1. Lost my name again*

          Yeah…using an old work product to create a work product at a new firm is probably a no no. That output belongs to your old firm. It doesn’t matter that you compiled it

    4. A Penguin!*

      I cannot comment on the legality – I’m not even close to being a lawyer. But my take on anything I built on company time/for a company that I want to take with me, I ask my boss (or higher, depending on the organization) about. Preferably before my resignation. Sometimes it’s ok’d, sometimes not. Some of the nos I’ve been tempted to take anyway, but the way I see it is that the company paid me to make that document/sheet/whatever (whether they asked for it directly or not), and therefore it’s theirs, even if all the content came from me.

      2. NotBatman*

        I’ve been a client who followed a financial planner I liked through a change of company. In that case the planner (with her boss’s permission) emailed her client list to announce the upcoming change, and I was one of a few clients who emailed back to say that I would like to continue working with her specifically after she moved to the new company. A friend also did that with a lawyer who hopped firms, although I don’t know how much the first firm was looped in on the change.

    5. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      It sounds like the digital equivalent of taking your contact list. The question I ask myself is: is this file something I would have kept in a notebook/address book/etc before computing became so central and everything lives on a computer? If so, then it’s taking my own contacts (or list of reference documents or whatever). So, if you go to a conference and get business cards, those are YOUR contacts. If you just compile them on your work computer, it’s not theft if you, say, print it and take it home. Or put it in your personal Google drive account or whatever. But maybe don’t email it to yourself because people seem to have a bugaboo about that.

      On the other hand, if it’s anything remotely company specific, process related, etc. Then you shouldn’t take it. You should also leave a copy of any contact list for the next person – just like you wouldn’t as an EA take the rolodex with you

      1. Can I?*

        Your last line made me think of the SATC episode where Samantha’s EA quits and steals her rolodex for her own party.

      2. Velociraptor Attack*

        That’s going to be really industry-dependent and some industries are a little touchier about when something is YOUR contact and when something is a work contact.

    6. lost academic*

      Two sides: one, it’s work product and it doesn’t belong to you. Two, everyone does it (in my field). Are you at any risk of legal penalty for keeping a personal copy? I can’t say but I’m doubtful. None of that directly answers your question, but it’s what I know.

      1. Rosemary*

        I agree. It would be different if she only had access to this contact information because of her current job. But anyone can find out this information; OP has just compiled it into a spreadsheet.

      2. Snoozing not schmoozing*

        There are all kinds of things that are public property via the internet, but a compilation of any of that information that is not posted to the internet is a different animal. Just think of how many articles have been written using information culled through internet sources – those articles belong to the authors if done independently, or to their employers if done while they were an employee and done as part of their job or on company time.

    8. Cascadia*

      An interesting thought experiment is, if your counterpart at a different company contacted you and asked for this list, would you share it with them? Some organizations share stuff with their competitors, some don’t. If you think you’re would, then I think you’re fine to take it.

      1. Can I?*

        I love this question, yes I’d absolutely share it. Maybe I can share it with some other organizations before I go so it’s more okay?

    9. mreasy*

      Realistically, it’s very common to keep contact lists when you change jobs. I don’t know what the risk of doing it is, though your former employer may not be thrilled if they knew – or perhaps they wouldn’t care. IANAL but I would do it?

  7. Asking for a friend*

    What circumstances would you give 1 weeks notice instead of 2?

    With the facts that the company has unlimited PTO so you won’t get paid for the days you don’t use. Your boss is a tyrant and there is no way you’ll use him or the current management as references. And they were not understanding for weather related issues of not being able to work.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      You’re never required to give two weeks unless you have a contract explicitly stating that you are. If you’re willing to burn the bridge, then get up and leave.

    2. AITA?*

      You may not use your boss as a reference, but jobs could contact him anyway. Honestly, unless the workplace is exacerbating a health issue, I would recommend giving 2 weeks. You’ll be the dutiful employee being responsible and you’ll be out of there after 2 weeks. So whatever arrows they sling your way… won’t matter once you’re gone. Inwardly smile knowing that they suck and you won’t have to deal with them anymore.

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        Conversely, I’d say just go.

        Even if you stay the two weeks, there’s nothing compelling the old boss to be honest, and a new employer isn’t going to dig into the minutiae to see who’s telling what lie. Why make yourself miserable for an extra week or two when it’s all a roll of the die anyway?

    3. A Penguin!*

      I’d stay the two weeks unless the company is actively unsafe, hostile or threatening. You don’t just burn the bridge with your boss, but with lots of people who hear about the short notice without hearing the whole story (or who do hear the whole story and don’t agree the circumstance warrants short notice). Two weeks is (generally) a small price to pay for maintaining your professional reputation.

    4. Can I?*

      The two weeks thing is about not burning bridges so that you can preserve a reference, but since you mentioned that isn’t possible, I don’t think it’s necessary.

    5. NotBatman*

      If you already have something lined up on the other end, I’d say go. If not, that’s a little more complicated.

    6. Unkempt Flatware*

      I’m here now. My boss has really lacked professional courtesy and is very smothering and needy while totally ignoring my needs. But I have to stay two weeks to avoid a “Not for rehire” status. It seems like if we based a standard notice period on how we are treated as employees today, we wouldn’t give two whole weeks.

    7. Gracely*

      –If you think you won’t actually get to work out that full 2 weeks. Especially if you need the income.
      OR
      –If your health (physical or mental) is at stake.
      OR
      –If you have serious doubts the extra week will in any way help the transition/hand over to your coworkers.

    8. lost academic*

      The two weeks is a business convention that is used as a barometer for many things, rightly or not, and unless you have a significant health, safety or financial reason to shorten it, you should try to keep it. Once you’ve given less notice than the standard, it’s done and it can be spun only in negative ways for you. That doesn’t mean you MUST stay 2 weeks but there’s a lot of known risk otherwise.

      Honestly, giving two weeks might just mean they’ll tell you to take a hike immediately so you need to be prepared that you won’t be paid starting on that date in the first place.

      1. Betty*

        Agree, and Alison has pointed out that just because you wouldn’t *volunteer* someone as a reference doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t actually be contacted in the future “off list.” It feels like a big risk for one week, unless you’re truly at a breaking point where your health is at risk.

    9. Database Developer Dude*

      No circumstances.

      Either I’m willing to give the full 2 weeks’ notice, because I don’t want to burn bridges, or I give the 2 minute warning, because the workplace is openly hostile or detrimental to my mental or physical health.

      I had one workplace where I dreamed of winning the lottery to pay for one particular co-worker to take martial arts lessons until they became a black belt in my art…..so I could meet them in a tournament and LEGALLY beat the crap out of them (I’m a black belt in my art). Needless to say, I exited that office under my own power as soon as humanly possible.

    10. Double A*

      If you feel like the bridge would be burned with 2 weeks and the job is miserable, then I would give, like, 1 day. Why 1 week? But if you feel like the bridge is worth salvaging in some way, I would try to do 2 because that is such the norm. Basically it seems like it would be all or nothing for me.

    11. Observer*

      The bigger thing is your coworkers. How will they react or think about you if you do that? Keep in mind that unless you are retiring or leaving to an industry that just never interacts with your current industry, you just don’t know when you will meet up with them again.

    12. RagingADHD*

      In general, I’d either give the full 2 weeks or no notice at all, if the situation were bad enough. The exception would be if there were a really unique opportunity at the new job that dictated an earlier start date.

      Not “we just want you to start ASAP, and will pull the offer if you say no” but something like “if you can make it work, we’d like you to come along to our global conference in Switzerland.”

    13. pbnj*

      After you resign, the company has a lot less power over you, so it may be easier than you think to stick it out for 2 weeks, especially if you already don’t think you’ll get a good reference out of it. Pointless meeting? Declined. Boss being a jerk? Take a really long lunch, or excuse yourself from the conversation. There’s not much they can do to you at this point. They could push you out early, but it sounds like you’re ok with that.

      Since you don’t get PTO paid out, I’d probably take a little time off and then resign when I came back. But check your employee handbook first to see if there are any weird rules about taking vacation before resigning.

      Personally, I’d probably try to stick it out for 2 weeks so they can’t say you didn’t give notice, unless there were physical or mental health concerns.

  8. Conflicted in California*

    Long-time fan, first-time caller here: I’m an unemployed journalist nearing 40 and I’m experiencing a bit of a career crisis. As you may know, the industry is experiencing a lot of contraction, with several large waves of recent layoffs. After six months on the job market (relying on savings and freelancing to support myself), I’m starting to question whether my future in the industry might be over. Freelancing is growing less sustainable as a full-time gig, I’d prefer to return to the stability of a staff job with benefits, and I’ve been through a lot of “almost there” job interviews.

    I’d be curious to hear from other readers — especially ex-journalists or those in my position — about what a different path might look like. I’ve considered communications, but am not super-excited about working in the nonprofit or corporate world. Many other options seem to require retraining, which is expensive and time-consuming. What the heck am I supposed to do with these skills?

    1. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

      If you’re a US citizen, I work in the federal govt, and I see a fair number of openings in Media Communications roles (though I see you said you’re not super interested in that). However I think it would be well-suited for your journalism experience, since those media briefs involve synthesizing a lot of complex policy information for general audiences. you could also go for the more generalized “social science research analyst” roles which emphasize writing skills. Plus, the job stability and benefits are pretty good. Check out usajobs.gov.

      1. Spaceball One*

        Came here to say the same, with one addition: Do a little homework into which companies have communication-related contracts within various state or federal agencies, and keep an eye on their job postings. In addition to this expanding the potential pool of vacancies worth applying for, the hiring process for contractors is much more “normal” than the federal hiring process, which has a lot of extra steps and restrictions. The only downside to being a contractor is that contracts end, and then there’s a nail-bitey period while you wait to find out what company is getting the next version of the contract and whether they’re going to hire everyone back or let some folks go. FWIW, I’ve been with the same federal agency for more than 20 years, through several contract changes, some more unpleasant than others, but I’m still here and still love it. :)

      2. Conflicted in California*

        I am and hadn’t thought about the feds! Thank you for this tip, especially around analyst roles, I’ll do some exploring.

      3. Employee*

        There are roles in federal public affairs which serve basically as the point person for journalists to contact, or, depending on what your reporting area of expertise is, you could get a role essentially being an internal journalist. I know PA specialists who write articles for publication on behalf of the agency they work for

        1. The 40 year old Journo*

          The one thing with government comms in particular is that the many layers of revision and approval … is something that makes a lot of journalists’ skin crawl because they are used to working at a significantly faster speed (though this is less true for investigative or longform roles).

          FWIW, Conflicted, something I have been discussing with other journalists over the past few years is how much more common it is nowadays for people to come back to the industry after some time in media relations and related roles. It used to be a one-way door and that seems to have really changed over the past decade or so. The thought that a career pivot isn’t a lifetime commitment is something I think about a lot when I am having those days where the industry seems hopelessly doomed.

          As well as government work like suggested here, I have some ex-journo friends who work for colleges in comms on the science or medical side, where the communications skills are very much wanted but there can be a bit more autonomy/less red tape than the government. That’s another one to consider.

          Good luck and keep us posted.

          1. event coordinator?*

            Yes colleges, universities, and research institutions are often looking for great comms people. It’s usually a stable gig with good benefits but not the highest pay. The hiring process can be long in the bigger institutions but it’s not as bad as the federal system. Hope you find what suits you!

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Science writing is a growing field. I know my department employs two, they work on more technical stuff like grant application writing as well as press release type stuff, editing articles before submission to journals.

    3. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      I know you’re not jazzed about the corporate world but media agencies who do work like digital pr, social media, SEO etc are places you can work, get training, and go into freelance roles after some experience.

      Another area might be grant writing.

    4. CatDragon*

      Trained journalist here, graduated in a recession, became a generalist (marketing) and have recently turned my career to specialize in content marketing. I’ve chatted with former journalists who have a hybrid career – they freelance for some corporations to pay the bills and then do freelance work for large news publications/magazines whenever they can land it. Also the corporate world is very diverse. There are many marketing agencies, industry groups, and consulting/advisory firms putting out large pieces of content that involve policy, research, news, etc.

    5. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I’m sorry.

      Recovering journalist here. I’m hearing from freelancer friends that some of them are slammed with work, because there have been a lot of layoffs but not a corresponding reduction in the amount of stuff that needs to be done. So if you want to go that route, it might not be completely insane.

      I got excited about cybersecurity and reinvented myself as a tech writer in that space, but it took time and a bit of money.

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        My team could really use a technical writer with a journalist slant or vice versa! We do a lot of Cyber Security work but we’re not writers, and it shows.

        1. Conflicted in California*

          Several people have suggested I explore technical writing, but it sounds like I’d be a stronger candidate with experience? (e.g. a friend’s lab is looking for technical writers but wants them to have bio backgrounds.)

    6. Marcella*

      As someone who’s been a journalist and done in-house/agency PR – a lot of places are eager to hire an ex-journalist because they figure you have great media contacts and understand crisis communications, rapid response, finding the story in a boring product rollout, etc.

      Maybe try some PR agencies or startups looking for a communications person.

    7. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

      I used to work in higher education fundraising, and we had a number of ex journalists doing writing work, mostly proposals and stewardship reports, plus some news stories and releases. I don’t know if that meets your expectation around not being in NFP or corporate, but I’m not sure what a writing job would look like outside of those two sectors.

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        I’m in that field myself. I have a degree in journalism, but haven’t worked in that field. Instead, I’m a prospect researcher. The job uses some of the skills I had to learn for my degree around finding and analyzing information, and presenting it in a way that is informative and helpful to the fundraisers.

        1. Lizzo*

          Fellow nonprofit professional here…I’m under the impression that organizations that have prospect research roles tend to be larder, and therefore pay better. Is that your observation?

          OP: if you are interested in this, there is a professional organization, Apra, for people who work in this field.

    8. syncbeat*

      Ex-journo in higher-ed comms here. Mostly features. Another ex-journo friend is content director at a personal finance website. (Her background was finance journalism.) Third ex-journo friend is a speechwriter at the UN. (Was a wire reporter.)

      1. The 40 year old Journo*

        Personal finance website sounds like a great fit and anything in the financial services sector, if you pick the right company, can be full of smart people who appreciate written communication talents. (The industry outlook compares well with journalism, too!)

    9. BellyButton*

      If not corporate or non-profit what else? Education? Government? I don’t know how you feel about teaching but a ton of states are now hiring teachers with only a BA in some other field other than teaching. A friend, with a background in journalism is now a HS journalism teacher, with no additional education needed.

    10. Not teenage but still ninja turtle*

      I did marcomm at a financial company for a while, and they looked for people with financial journo backgrounds for comm/PR roles because of their connections. If you had a specialty, it might be worth looking into the companies you worked with/reported on.

    12. Mynona*

      I know two ex-journos: one is a nonprofit comms director, the other is a bartender. I sympathize with your plight. Would it help to at least just find a comms job with a steady paycheck and then figure it out from there? It would take the money pressure off at least

    13. Double A*

      Have you considered teaching? I think journalists can make great teachers, and you can bring a lot of your skills to almost any subject. There’s a steep learning curve with classroom management, but honestly being an older teacher (I am exactly your age so I’m not calling you old haha) you already have some of the presence that kids respect so it can be an easier transition. But you can also get creative with assignments that teach kids investigative skills; you could create a class newspaper. I’m thinking of all kinds of cool projects that kids would find very engaging.

      I know people are down on teaching these days and are having a rough time, but honestly I still love it so much and I think it’s more important than ever. This kids are amazing and they need thoughtful, kind, enthusiastic adults right now so much. If it’s something you’ve ever thought about at all, maybe try mixing some substitute teaching into your freelancing and see how you like it? Teaching in California pays pretty well and has good benefits, and if you’re a reliable sub, districts can help you figure out the path to credentialing.

    14. JitzGirl11*

      What kind of beats did you cover? Perhaps you could consider speechwriting or executive communications at organizations related to what you covered or that interest you. We had a speechwriter at my organization who came to us from journalism and did quite well.

    15. Radio*

      I run a radio station that is heavily local news focused. We are hiring three news positions right now and have had next to no applications. There are thousands of open news radio jobs across the US right now (radio isn’t as attractive as it once was, but we are not a dying industry either). Maybe look into that?

      1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        Another route that may work for you is that a lot of companies are looking for native English writers for communications, so if you’d be willing to relocate (or go remote!) you do not confine yourself to the US.

    16. WestsideStory*

      Ex-journo here: take a look at book publishing. Transferable skills include the ability to write tight, trend spotting, good spelling and grammar, fact-checking on the fly, research skills, and knowing how not to bury the lede way down in that first chapter.

      Some paths: editing (especially if you are a specialist in a topic or beat) promotion and marketing, production (if you are fluent in online collaboration and enjoy social media) and sales.

      Many jobs are remote these days, too. Some places to look: book jobs.com, Publishers marketplace, Indeed as well.

      Don’t worry if you don’t have a clue about book publishing. As I’ve often said, a journalist’s job isn’t knowing all the answers, but knowing where to ask the questions

    17. JaneAustensTeaCozy*

      Ex journalist who graduated into a recession here–I bounced around in tech for a bit (tech writing and general PR stuff) before landing a freelance research gig that turned full time. Now I manage a super niche team doing research and content analysis work, and I’ve hired quite a few fellow ex journos.

      Research was a natural fit for the skills I’d cultivated reporting, but I’d done quite a bit of long-form type stuff previously. The biggest issue wasn’t the skills, but the timelines (much longer), the management style (so much more micromanagement) and the culture (more formal). The switch to corporate stuff was challenging and I miss talking to random humans, but my work/life balance is better and the pay is much better. If you’ve got the research experience, it can be a nice switch!

  9. Can I Keep It?*

    Hi all! I wanted to get your thoughts on this. I recently left a job after 3 months. I started my new role immediately after this unintentionally short stint. The thing is, I really want to leave this job on my LinkedIn/resume, but all of my research (including Alison’s posts) say I shouldn’t. The reason why I would like to leave it on is that within the 3 months, I actually accomplished some cool stuff. I knocked out a big, multi-part (and multi-partner) project that my predecessor didn’t do after multiple years, and I discovered a charge in one of our vendor contracts that we were wasting thousands on that I was able to do something about. This charge was missed by my predecessor, my boss, and our purchasing department, so I think it says something that I caught it and did something about it in a relatively short time. Had I stayed in the role a more resume-appropriate length of time, I would probably be using these accomplishments in my highlights because it lends additional credibility with other accomplishments from former roles of managing large projects, and catching details that save my employer money.

    For context, I was laid off in my last two roles (thanks covid (and the collateral damage that’s still making its way across multiple industries)), so if I leave this job on, I have 1.5 year gig, 3 month gap, another 1.5 year gig, another 3 month gap, then a 3 month gig, and now my current role. If I take this job off my resume, it will look like my last employment gap will be 6 months instead of 3. Which I’m not sure if the length of the gap makes a difference.
    If this bit of context helps, I live in a major metro market so job-hopping isn’t uncommon, but I’ve never done it intentionally. What do you think; is this short job worth keeping on, or should I just accept and delete it off my LinkedIn?

    Thanks!

    1. Trina*

      I would think that the fact you can list some significant accomplishments would justify leaving it on. Alison’s advice about usually not listing very short jobs is based on them not adding any value to your resume, so if that’s pointedly not true in your case I would say you are an exception!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      The advice I’ve seen about leaving short jobs off your resume is because most people haven’t accomplished anything notable. Sounds like you do have some worthwhile accomplishments, so it may be worth putting those on your resume.

      Be sure you have a good explanation for why you left this job after 3 months. (Not clear to me if you got laid off from the 3-month position–if so, that’s your good explanation.)

      1. Cut & Run*

        Thank you for responding. I appreciate it. I was fortunately NOT laid off from the 3-month role. The primary reason I am leaving is that after the layoffs, I am very triggered (for lack of a better term) by any instability which my current employer was starting to face. This new job (with a government agency) presented itself, and I considered it sign and took it.

        1. Not my real name*

          Oh, that makes the explanation easy! “While the work at Company X was challenging, when the opportunity arose to go to Agency Y arose it was just too good to pass up.”

          1. Reba*

            I would also mention that the company was experiencing layoffs (even if you yourself weren’t laid off) — it’s sensible to look for other opportunities when that happens, so this would counter a potential impression of flightiness.

    3. Jujyfruits*

      I’m not sure what happened. I posted a reply but it didn’t nest properly. Here it is:

      If I understand correctly you have a job now and are not searching? In that case, leave it on. You’re proud of the work you did. Also you can find people you’ve worked with easier on LinkedIn when you list the employer. It doesn’t sound like you have a compelling reason to take it off so don’t!

      1. NegativeNancy*

        This is true! If you arent looking then leave it and decide when you want to job search again.

    4. Yvette*

      That advice is usually for when the job was a disaster or it did not align with your career goals and the type of job(s) you want. (Think laid off nurse taking a seasonal retail gig.) It sounds like you were laid off because of budget cuts/Covid issues/circumstances beyond your control having nothing to do with your performance. Leave it on, you did good work. Let interviewers ask about the length if they want, you have a valid reason.

      1. Cut & Run*

        Thank you for responding. Fortunately, I was not laid off in this job that only lasted 3 months, but news that payroll budgets (and that I was going to most likely have to lay off one of my staffers) freaked me out as I had been there before. Then a government role from when I was job searching came through and I took it.

      2. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        The advice is also for resumes where real estate matters (you only have one page, usually). On LinkedIn it matters far less as there are no set page boundaries.

    5. NegativeNancy*

      I still wouldnt. Honestly I dont want to downplay your accomplishments. You should be proud of them.

      But with the massive project, I think prospective employers will think that you can’t have contributed much and are taking credit for others work. Or that the project wasnt that big because it was accomplished in such a short time while learning the role/company and presumably doing other work too. Unless you were brought in 3 months before a convention or big event with the express purpose of managing the event. Then including that would make sense though you would likey have a job title that reflects that the project was your focus and the whole point. And also it sounds like if your predecessor never did it for years, I doubt this was the case. I just dont know that people will understand or appreciate that this was something big you accomplished and you risk looking like you steal the limelight or overinflate your contribution/work.

      The other issue is that while its cool you caught the error. And it does show attention to detail. It more reflects badly on your former employer than it does well on you.

      Also was it an intentionally 3 month contract type deal? Or did you get laid off? Because it does look like job hopping even if you werent doing that.

      You might feel it boosts your candidacy and you have that right to choose that. But I would think having two 18 month stints with a good reason (layoffs from covid stuff) looks differently to having an extra 2 month stint. And I dont know even having accomplishments will help that much. But thats just me. I could be totally off and just being a negative nancy.

      1. Chutney Jitney*

        I disagree with pretty much all of this. Mostly, I’d say your comment is full of imaginary problems that could all be solved by actual conversation, like one would have in an interview. You are certainly living up to your screen name.

        So if they “didn’t think she could possibly have done anything” on the big project, she could respond by explaining what she did and how she did it.

        And of course catching an error shows that someone made a mistake. It literally always will. But you seem to think that’s… bad? Like it would be better to let it go uncorrected? Catching errors that save thousands of dollars is a positive thing! Especially if OP works in any way with money, budgeting, timetables, projects, resources – you know, most jobs.

        I truly struggle to imagine the hiring manager who thinks, “Sure, she caught this massive error, but what about her boss! What a failure. My god, that guy, can you imagine how incompetent he is. That company too…” and what, forgetting the OP? Or dismissing her accomplishment because… I don’t know, anyone can have attention to detail but it takes someone extra awful to make the mistake in the first place? By what mechanism would they stop thinking about the potential employee they want to hire and instead focus on that person’s boss?

        OP I say you should leave this on your resume. I’m impressed with how much you did in a short time and I bet they were sorry to see you go.

        1. NegativeNancy*

          All of your comment assumes they will get an interview. A lot of stuff can be explained in an interview. A lot of what appears to be job hopping can be explained in a conversation. But the employer has to be willing to have the conversation and the CV helps decide that! A lot of people keep saying you can explain it in an interview but you have to get the interview first.

          And yes my view of the error was particularly negative as I was very stressed when I wrote that. And I am totally being a negative nancy thats why I picked the name! But my views on the project bit still stand. Saying you did a big massive project in 3 months will seem off unless you were hired to do x project. Because it either means the project cant have been super huge or you are taking credit for others work. There is a risk people will view it that way.

          Though as I agreed above. If they arent looking for jobs now, leave it on linked in. Worry later.

      2. Cut & Run*

        Thank you for responding. You make valid points. The story as I’ve gleaned about the person in the role prior to me was that they were in over their heads. This was the message that people who reported to them and my boss relayed to me.

        The job was not a contract role, nor was I laid off. I was sensing financial instability of the company based on the fact that I was going to have to lay someone off due to budget cuts. A government role that I had interviewed for months prior came through and they made an offer. I accepted it since I don’t want to risk being laid off again.

        1. NegativeNancy*

          Oh well then I wouldnt worry. You have a job that seems more stable. Leave it on linkedin, decide on CV later. Its possible that you’ll reach a point where its a non-question anyway by the time you are looking again. Congrats on the new job btw!

          1. Cut & Run*

            Here’s hoping that by the time I have to look again, it’s YEARS down the road. Thank you!!!!

    6. pinetree*

      I’d suggest leaving it up on LinkedIn. People may assume you were working as a short-term contract or as a consultant. Also, if somebody knew you were at a company for three months but saw that it was removed it from LinkedIn, they may take that as a sign you had a negative experience there in some shape or form.

      I might only leave it off resumes for job applications if you decide to look for another job in the next 3-6 months. You’d have to make a judgment about how your resume presents itself at that time. But if you stay in your current job for at least a year, I think it’s good to keep on your resume from there forward. (Caveat: Different industries have have different norms about expected work tenures).

    7. linger*

      Specifically, finding that error is a concrete example to support self-description as “detail-focussed”. So unless you have similar achievements elsewhere to point to, it makes sense to keep the job listed.

    8. YesIAmRetiredNow*

      I’m in the US and I seem to recall with every government job I ever had (state, federal and county level) the application asked for *every job you ever held* be on the application, and I think they mean this literally. I was fired from the county one when it was discovered that I left a short 3 month job off my application. Check the fine print on yours.

  10. anon for this*

    Do you have any examples of your field being wildly misrepresented in the movies/tv shows/the media in general? I have many, but I’m currently being haunted by NCIS Hawaii Season 2 Episode 6.

    1. Not my real name*

      I haven’t seen that episode, but I’m an entomologist and all of the procedurals make me crazy.

    2. desdemona*

      I lived with a theatre stage manager for a while, and she absolutely HATED Birdman for the way it misrepresented theatrical production processes.

      1. curly sue*

        On the other side, the three-season series “Slings and Arrows” is spectacularly good theatre rep. The vast majority of the cast and producers were theatre festival veterans and it really shows. Highly recommended! (Also for very early-career Rachel McAdams!)

        1. Ormond Sackler*

          I love Slings and Arrows! Wish more people saw that show.

          As an aside, Stratford, the town where the theater in the show is supposed to be, is very charming and fun, even in the offseason.

      3. legal rugby*

        I’m former military and a former prosecutor, so my wife doesnt allow me to watch the first five minutes of any NCIS. I can enjoy the pretty people making logical leaps, but I can’t handle the jurisdictional issues.

      4. Glomarization, Esq.*

        Ibid.

        I can’t suspend my disbelief enough to watch law dramas, and most police procedurals get on my nerves.

    4. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      Cybersecurity is MUCH more exciting in the movies. In real life it just looks like a lot of people sitting at computers.

      3. Observer*

        Like a bunch of people sitting at computers, but without all the green screens and flickering lights.

      4. Kuddel Daddeldu*

        Mostly true but it also entails yours truly with a laptop or two, wearing a hard hat and boiler suit in industrial facilities, offshore drilling rigs, and ships, usually quite far away from home. The sitting at computers doing forensic analysis towards what exactly led to the total network outage or whatever we observed comes afterwards. As comes writing reports, trying to explain matters so that nonspecialists can understand what the actual risks are, without too much oversimplification.

    5. Camellia*

      IT is constantly misrepresented. Of COURSE I can take 10 years worth of data written ON PAPER, “upload” it in 5 minutes, and write a script that will analyze the data and spit out answers for you in 10 minutes!

      Oh, and I love the ‘how long will it take’ exchanges. ‘It will take two days.’ ‘Okay, you have one hour.’ And lo and behold, it is done in one hour.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Also, the way to hack into something is just to type furiously for five minutes straight! There must be lots of Matrix-like streaming text, too.

        1. Some words*

          I know for sure from movies & shows that I’ve seen that if a hacker can hack one system, they can hack every system (and every device).

          Tap tap tap, I’ve just appropriated all Vatican’s bank assets.
          Fiddle, fiddle, I’ve just reactivated this elevator where the power was shut off.
          Tap tap tap I’m now in full control of the entire U.S. nuclear arsenal.
          Tap tap tap Bill Gates should really beef up his network security. I’m in.

          Strung together like that it sounds like a pitch for an action film plot. lol

      3. Chutney Jitney*

        Don’t forget zoom and enhance. Sure, I can make that grainy security footage from 30 meters away sharp enough to see someone’s features… and done!

        1. WellRed*

          But you wouldn’t think to do that until the boss tells you to! (Looking at you Jubal Valentine on FBI).

        2. MigraineMonth*

          Or the crime-scene reenactment computer models from Bones.

          “From the angle of the stabbing and blood splatter, the assailant was clearly a middle-aged 5′ 7.5″ woman with particularly streong arms, and the victim must have tripped backwards over another person who was 6′ 3″ but crouching, and we whipped this entirely accurate visual model up in less than 30 seconds.”

          “Thanks, forensic artist! It’s amazing what you can do with zero knowledge of computer programming.”

      4. Yvette*

        OK keep in mind that back in the day laptops came out long before wireless connectivity. I would see people on TV sitting on the couch or at the dining room or kitchen table on their laptops and they are sending emails, chatting, etc. and the camera pulls back and “Look Ma, no wires!”

        1. Snoozing not schmoozing*

          But that actually works! At least sometimes. It was known in my office as “cold-cocking that sucker.”

        2. Camellia*

          Although, technically speaking, it’s ‘turn it OFF and then ON again’. (sorry, couldn’t resist).

      6. MigraineMonth*

        I love when the “technology” being used should be familiar to the writers. Sure, using the command line, hacking and cybersecurity are mysterious, but there are so many shows that get everyday technology wrong. Like using a keyboard (was that two-person one-keyboard episode of NCIS trying to be satire)? Or texting using a cell phone. Or trying to read something on a screen.

        I am always entertained by the shows that do the artsy shot of code scrolling by (green text on black, naturally) as reflected in the IT person’s glasses (because of course the IT person wears glasses). Except the reflection is readable, so the IT person must be looking at mirror-imaged code.

    6. Anon too!*

      I write code… Media has figured out that we use computers and keyboards to do it and that’s about all that’s accurate. My favorite cringe was NCIS where they had two people type on the same keyboard together as a way to work faster to counter a hacker!

      My dad is a cop. Whenever I’d try to watch police procedurals, he’s stand by the couch saying “wrong…wrong…no one has that policy…illegal…very illegal…congrats buddy every case you’ve ever worked on would be overturned for this”. Nothing about cop shows is accurate.

      Maybe a shorter list would be what fields are portrayed accurately?

      1. Ginger Baker*

        Kid 2 and I watching NCIS: “Ok Copaganda time! …oh, geez, illegal. Super illegal. No, you can’t just break in. YES ASK FOR THE WARRANT, nice going! What, no don’t just let them in anyway. NO. NO. GET THAT DEAL SIGNED BEFORE YOU SAY ONE MORE WORD, cops are legally allowed to lie to you! If they want that info, tell them to hurry up and get a SIGNED DEAL dammit!”

        1. lost academic*

          That’s what I like about Law and Order (original)! They get burned when the cops screw up or take liberties all the time! They show so many warts of the legal system from start to finish. And the good guys don’t always win by a long shot – and who the good guys are is pretty variable.

          I assume, not being in law and justice myself, but it feels like they’re trying to do that. I also just miss the old L&O, I won’t watch any spinoffs.

          1. Snoozing not schmoozing*

            Barney Miller may have been a comedy, but I heard several law enforcement employees claim it was the closest to realism of any police show, at least until that time (mid 1970s – early 1980s).

      2. Aerin*

        Apparently the two people on one keyboard was a writers’ room dare. They were getting tired of fans nitpicking the show’s IT stuff so they purposefully tried to one-up each other with more and more ridiculous stuff.

      3. Anyone*

        May need a trigger warning here, for truly disturbing birthing TV story.
        My college roommate’s mom was a Labor and Delivery nurse. We were watching that episode of ER when our room phone rang about 5 seconds after they tried to shove the baby back in while they rushed mom up to the OR (or somewhere). Roommate’s mother proceeded to SCREAM into our answering machine “You can’t do that!”
        We saved that message through 3 different apartments, just to play when one of us was doing something stupid.

        (Man, I feel really old now. ER not in reruns, landline, answering machine…)

        1. ClosingTime*

          Best story and making me giggle! Please tell me you somehow still have a copy of it. Maybe saved to some audio file somewhere!

    7. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      Programmer.

      Dilbert is the only time I’ve seen it remotely right. I guess Tron, too, if you delete all the animation-enhanced scenes within the grid.

    8. this is too specific about me to use my usual name*

      I’m a linguistics major who reads a lot of SciFi. I think that SciFi authors should not be allowed to play with linguistic relativity (aka the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis) for at LEAST the next twenty years. I’m very tired.

      1. Susan Calvin*

        My desk neighbor is looking at me funny because I audibly hissed. YES.

        Bonus; for grad school I pivoted to AI. What I wouldn’t give for that to be wildly misunderstood ONLY in fiction!

    9. time for cocoa*

      I work with fire protection products, and every movie has no idea how sprinklers work.

      Old example but one of the worst: The Thomas Crowne affair kills me. Nobody is stupid enough to use a water system in a FINE ART MUSEUM, even with metal shields. Clean agent systems have existed for ages.

      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        That’s really interesting! Though the producers probably heard that exact info, said “hmm, water would probably look more visually interesting” and went with the inaccurate version because it looked prettier – which seems to happen often in films and TV.

      2. Devo Forevo*

        I worked in a fine art museum and this makes me so mad every time! On the flip side, super sophisticated lasers in a gallery is hilarious.

      3. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Hello fellow life safety person.
        When a coworker found out I had never seen die hard, she told me not to, because the sprinklers all going off at once are rage inducing.

    10. A Penguin!*

      Notsomuch my field (engineering). But in a not-quite-what-you-asked take, I’m always amused and saddened how far off reality my hobbies get taken (MMORPGs, RPGs, LARPs).

      1. Anongineer*

        I’m almost sad that engineering isn’t considered exciting enough to be a regular job, but the one book that I’ve read that had someone as a civil engineer had them working on windmills so I’ve accepted it’s for the best they forget about us.

        1. Angstrom*

          There were some cars ads years ago that were supposed to feature real automotive engineers, but they had to hire actors because the agency couldn’t find any real engineers who looked like engineers. :-)

      2. I edit everything*

        I’m curious if you’ve seen the Hawkeye series on Disney+, where he runs into a LARPing group and they become a kind of support team for him.

          1. A Penguin!*

            I like Role Models, but I disagree that the LARP combat scenes are sincere. At the least they don’t match how any of it could go down in systems I play (but I concede they could match another system). The roleplay and game-adjacent ones I find accurate, though. Including the ones I wish weren’t.

    11. Other Alice*

      My industry/job is kind of niche so not much representation. However I do have a degree in mathematics and I cannot watch anything with mathematicians on it. I am haunted by all the movies with shots of what’s supposed to be a classroom where a lecture just took place, but the blackboard is just a bunch of random formulae with no rhyme or reason. You know, as if someone took a book and opened it at random pages and copied bits of it. The book is of course Algebra 101 and the lecture is supposed to be at PhD level.

          1. Morrigan Crow*

            From what I remember, they were mainly real formulas, but really, really basic ones (like high school algebra II level). I have a vague memory of them getting really excited when they were simplifying fractions?

    12. NotBatman*

      I’m a psychologist. A recent study found that 72 of the 100 most-watched TikToks about ADHD contain misinformation, as do 80 of the 100 most-watched about PTSD. But at least TikTok doesn’t portray all mental health practitioners as evil or incompetent like on television, so there’s that!

    13. Josefina Montoya*

      Libraries so— lots, lol. We’re not all old ladies who do nothing but shush people all day! Those are always the worst IMO; least Parks & Rec was funny about it (and also wildly inaccurate about working in government, haha, although the public information meetings could be sadly on point), Tammy was hilarious.

      1. Trina*

        It’d be easier to list media that get modern public libraries right! I’m convinced that Hollywood is at least half the reason that literally any article related to libraries still has at least “why would we need libraries, we have the internet” in the comments and that “did you know you can get FREE EBOOKS from your library????” shows up as a high-karma post on Reddit once a month.

      3. And I'm the alchemist of the hinterlands*

        As you can see i am a huge P & R fan, and I thought the library rivalry was a riot!

      4. Princess Peach*

        Haha, yes, just coming to say this. My glasses are for poor vision rather than weird sex appeal, I do not shush people, and I 1000% do not sit at a desk reading for fun all day.
        Pretty sure all my relatives think I shelve books for 40 hours a week too, which is only marginally better than what the media portrays.

      5. ThatGirl*

        My town’s library board had a years-long fight with the parks department over something really silly, so I actually felt like that part was kind of accurate :)

    14. Chutney Jitney*

      My husband has training as both a chemist and an attorney. ALL. THE. TIME.

      BTW, many lawyers like the movie My Cousin Vinny because it correctly portrays the law and courtroom procedure, despite being a comedy.

    15. Gracely*

      TEACHING. Glee might have been the worst (no you cannot switch from teaching spanish to teaching history because “you watch a lot of history channel” what the utter fuck?), but pretty much any depiction where someone comes in and fixes everything is utter bullshit. Dead Poets’ Society, etc. makes me want to throw things.

      Abbott Elementary is sort-of an exception, in that it shows anyone can’t just decide to start teaching/simple fixes never work/you can’t gumption or inspire your way into teaching your students stuff because they see through that no matter their age/sometimes you just have to work around the unfathomable incompetence of people in charge/etc. It’s still not accurate, but it gets at the gist of what it’s like better than any other show/movie I’ve seen.

      1. Dark Macadamia*

        Haha I didn’t see your comment before and also thought immediately of Glee. No, actually, it’s not inspiring that this man gets super involved in his students’ personal lives! Doesn’t he have adult friends?

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        The frightening thing about changing subjects that you’re teaching? I know someone who graduated with a French major and was teaching French. When the budget got cut suddenly she was also supposed to teach Spanish I. She had never studied Spanish, nor was she from a Spanish-speaking family.

      1. Academic glass half full*

        oh THIS!
        And for people who don’t know
        “Gloves reduce your dexterity. In other words, they can make you clumsier. Gloves, particularly white cotton ones, aren’t very fitted. You can’t grip things as well or as carefully with them on as you can with bare fingertips, which means it’s much easier to tear a page accidentally when you’re wearing gloves.
        Gloves get dirty. White cotton gloves aren’t sterile, and their absorbent fabric surface picks up lots of dirt and debris. As our visitors know, old manuscripts and books can get your hands filthy! When all this dirt ends up on gloves, it can transfer to other books and manuscripts and cause damage.
        Gloves stop you from learning about an item. Many scholars – and indeed our staff – need to know about an item’s physical qualities. The feel of the paper can tell you more about its history and production, for example. This type of engagement with the physical object becomes impossible when you’re wearing cotton gloves.
        So what do we recommend instead? Handle our manuscripts and rare books with clean, dry hands. We might ask you to use gloves for certain items in our collections that react more strongly to dirt or human oils – some glass negatives, art or other delicate objects, for example. But on the whole, if you are clean and careful in your handling, your skin won’t cause any significant damage”
        From the British Library

    17. Well...*

      Physicist here! From an underrepresented group. The Big Bang Theory gets so much wrong. First off, the “we’re so geeky” thing doesn’t really persist so much past the PhD level, a lot of those people leave the field after grad school. Rock climbing is a far more widespread hobby than dnd, and I’ve gotten confirmation of this from the US, Canada, South America, Europe, and New Zealand. Hiking is also a major past time. We’re a very international group, which most movies or TV shows miss (Space Force has one joke about this actually). Don’t Look Up did a decent job at representing physicists, but the US-focus of it all was a little unrealistic (multiple missions from many countries would be going on to stop the meteor, and many would be more well-funded than the US program).

      Another thing that most media misses is how highly collaborative we are, including theorists. We aren’t just lone weirdos starting into space pondering deep questions in a vacuum. We read each other’s work constantly, talk to each other all the time in meetings or just brainstorming on Slack/Skype, go to conferences, do tons of public speaking, etc. Extroverts abound at the high levels (but it skews introvert for students).

      2. Nightengale*

        I have finally reached the realiazation that I must enjoy yelling at medical shows.

        Interestingly I tend to yell at them less for getting medical facts about disease, treatments, etc wrong, and more at getting hospitals and medical education wrong. No, the whole team doesn’t take call at once, that is what call means. No, hospital boards do not make decisions about residents, that is the resident review committee. Why are the surgeons running the NICU?

    19. Dark Macadamia*

      Pretty much every teacher on TV is WILDLY inappropriate and unprofessional, even the good ones. The biggest pet peeve for me personally is when the show spends a lot of time telling you how great a teacher is while showing them be AGGRESSIVELY TERRIBLE and it’s not meant to be like “oh, people don’t realize” or “they’ve got everyone fooled” but you as a viewer are supposed to sincerely think Mr. Schuester is an inspiring role model.

      1. Irish Teacher*

        Honestly, a lot of movies, books, TV shows about school appear to me as if they were written as if kids’ perceptions are actually objectively true. Like the “cool but inappropriate teacher who breaks all the rules” is objectively awesome, instead of either a slacker who just lets kids do what they like because it’s easier than making them work or “that” teacher that is more invested in being a “friend” to the kids than actually being an authority figure.

        Or they fail to deal with bullying because “the teachers just don’t care” or because the bully is one of “the cool kids” and for some reason, the teachers are impressed by that rather than because the teachers are overworked and don’t notice the bullying or because the victim is scared to report it or because the bully has serious behavioural problems which the teachers are trying to intervene with but it’s not that easy (especially if the bully sees suspension as “yay!! time off school” and will just refuse to turn up for detentions, etc), all of which are far more common reasons for teacher to fail to deal with it.

        It often feels like the writers are remembering their own schooldays and are writing based on what they felt at the time, rather than re-evaluating through their now adult eyes and thinking “oh yeaaah, the teacher probably actually didn’t know about that. We just assumed they did and didn’t care because it didn’t occur to us that adults could be distracted by other things” or “oh looking back now, the stuff that cool teacher did wasn’t such a good idea really. It was funny, but it could so easily have gone wrong.”

        1. Dark Macadamia*

          Haha, yes! I’m willing to give, say, Miss Honey from Matilda a bit of a pass because that book is written FOR children and of course the idea of a beloved teacher saving a kid from an abusive family is nice. It drives me crazy with media for adults!

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        As a former high school chorus kid, I want to know where they got their show budget. And why is nobody calling out praise for their kick ass backup bands?

        1. Dark Macadamia*

          I choose to believe any of the flashy numbers is meant to be a fantasy sequence, lol. Anything beyond t-shirts and Brad the pianist is only in their imagination

    20. Birdie*

      My father joined the FBI (not as an agent) at the height of the X-Files popularity. As you can imagine, he had…..opinions…..about how the show portrayed the FBI. I had to forbid him from watching it with me because I just couldn’t take his commentary any more.

      He has opinions about any show/movie that has the FBI in it. Lots of opinions, most of them of the negative sort. But as a teenage girl who enjoyed her hour of alien-fueled escapism every week, I got really tired of hearing all the criticism about my favorite show (that was about alien conspiracies! And monsters! Grounded in reality was not exactly the show’s M.O.).

      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        Even as a big X-Files fan (who knew nothing about the FBI) at the time it was originally aired, I’d think “hmm, I doubt a real FBI agent would do this.” Did he happen to see The Americans, and if so, what did he think?

        1. Birdie*

          I don’t know if ever ever watched The Americans. Funny enough, before I switched careers and ended up in fundraising, I did my masters in international relations and worked (briefly) for a think tank where I was a specialist in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. I binged The Americans during the early days of the pandemic and loved every absurd second of it. Even Keri Russell’s atrocious Russian. It’s TV. It’s fun.

          Although maybe my experience of (again, briefly) working in television helped put some perspective on the whole thing. Most of it is absurd, not based on reality, image over substance; either embrace it and suspend your disbelief, or don’t. But stop ruining the fun for the rest of us, ya know?

    21. Dragon*

      Law & Order SVU, Season 3 Episode 5, “Tangled.”

      I couldn’t believe it when a nurse gave SVU a patient’s medical file, not to mention that SVU acted like it was perfectly normal.

    22. Library in the Middle*

      Teaching. Just… No. Abbott Elemetary *almost* gets it right, but no teachers leave their rooms with kids in them or spend that much time in the faculty room.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I loved Kindergarten Cop but with a few teachers in the family I had to work HARD to suspend my disbelief that he’d be allowed to take over with zero training.

    23. Irish Teacher*

      As a teacher, the main misconception I notice is the whole “cool teacher comes in and engages an entire class of previously failing students and now that they are engaged, they all also gain the ability to succeed at the subject and often even at all their subjects, including ones the teacher has nothing to do with.”

      In reality, the reasons students are failing are many and varied and are rarely as simple as “none of our subjects were interesting enough and if one teacher came up with a few fun classes, I’d be able to pass everything.” And they differ by student, so what will engage one student will completely turn off another.

      And often the super-engaging innovative lessons just…aren’t, anyway. Getting students to write a book/start a choir/make a video/getting them to discuss and debate ideas instead of just learning them off/using the lyrics of pop songs as examples of poetry…these are all pretty commonly used methods and no, they don’t make every single student suddenly start achieving As. (If only it were that easy.)

      Great question, by the way.

      1. Dark Macadamia*

        I don’t know what you’re talking about, I introduced my students to rap music and now they all love Shakespeare!

    24. Medical Librarian*

      Librarian, and “shh” and “must be nice to read books all day” have nothing to do with my work life. Now, if I could find a way to get paid to read all day. . . .

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        And my husband is a geologist, which you wouldn’t think would come up in movies or TV all that often but it does and he has Things To Say. To be fair, it’s often science in general or climate or meteorology (which are not the same thing) or physics (because he also taught physics for a while) and not always geology.

        Oddly enough, one of the shows we really enjoyed watching together was the McGyver reboot despite the rampant scientific ridiculousness.

    26. Angstrom*

      Pilots. The radio communication and cockpit talk is completely nonstandard, plus all the grimacing and wrestling with the controls.
      EMTs and paramedics don’t all look like models, and most calls are not life-or-death emergencies.

      1. Dragon*

        OTOH, The Twilight Zone episode “The Odyssey of Flight 33” presented pilots accurately. Rod Serling’s brother, Robert Serling, was an aviation writer for UPI and helped with the cockpit dialogue. After the episode aired, Rod received letters from real-life pilots praising its technical accuracy.

    27. Spearmint*

      I work for a state government agency, and I think tv and movies often depict government bureaucrats as uncaring, dead eyed robots. In reality, I think most government employees do care and to the extent it seems like they don’t a lot of it is due to red tape that is beyond their control. Additionally, I think fictional media often glosses over how some of this red tape is reasonable, or at least it’s understandable why it’s there even if maybe it shouldn’t be.

    28. Liz*

      SO MANY! I work mental health and one of my favourite games is playing “spot all the things that are wrong” ever time a therapist shows up on TV. Completely inappropriate room, zero boundaries, seriously iffy confidentiality procedures, you name it. The ones that stand out the most are the sex therapist in the film Twister who takes random unscheduled calls from clients while in a car with other people and just launches straight into talking about issues, and the school counsellor in Stranger Things who has a kid show up at her house and just lets her walk right in for a chat.

    29. Double A*

      I’m a teacher and Hollywood gets it exactly right.

      HAHA just kidding. I tried to watch Glee and was like OMG everyone should be fired.

      Although weirdly my biggest pet peeve about the way teaching is portrayed in movies/TV is the teacher being in the middle of a lecture or discussion and then the bell rings and they’re yelling out, “Don’t forget! Your reports are due tomorrow!” Like, teachers are SO aware of the clock and bell, we don’t just blather on obliviously until suddenly out of nowhere the bell rings.

      It’s low stakes but it’s in practically every classroom scene, just watch for it.

      1. PhysicsTeacher*

        The part of this that really gets me is when the teachers give what seems to be a NEW homework assignment while half the kids are already out the door.

    30. Siege*

      I work for a union. I would say that possibly the entire canon of media misrepresents my job. It’s an office job like many others, and I almost never sign checks on the tailgate of someone’s SUV or show up somewhere to be an intimidating union thug.

        1. Siege*

          “Only once so far” is still “almost never”! (It was a stack of political endorsement checks, too.)

    31. Shira VonDoom*

      I’ve worked with horses and have a lot of friends who do.

      I’m The Worst to watch anything with horses in, because I’ll coo over the horses I love best, and why, in exhaustive detail…and then be yelling about how “WAIT, THAT WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT HORSE LAST SCENE, AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS ‘BELOVED’ HORSE. THEY DIDN’T EVEN TRY TO HIDE IT HAS DIFFERENT MARKINGS!”

      (yes, obviously there are reasons of logistics and the horse performers’ health and safety they generally have a string of horses to portray one horse…however, sometimes there is more effort than others to disguise the different actual animals involved. Hidalgo, whatever its other problems, did a good job matching its main horse.)
      LOL

      1. Gracely*

        LOL, I do this with cats. “That IS DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME CAT, DAMMIT!”

        Sometimes, you just want them to use a damn puppet like they did with Salem on the old Sabrina the Teenage Witch show. Then it adds to the humor.

      2. Just a different redhead*

        Ahhhh I hear you, even though I’m no true expert I was still on about the old movie that was made of The Black Stallion using a winter black horse… (but that movie had SO many other problems it almost didn’t matter anymore – and yet its sequel was somehow worse)
        And then what the various movie versions of Pride and Prejudice do with Mr. Darcy and Mr. Bingley’s horses, mixing them up, switching them, etc…. XD

      3. Agile Phalanges*

        Also a horse person, and I love when you see the glint of shoes on a “wild” horse.

        Also all the whinnying in movies/TV–horses nicker, whuffle, squeal, etc. occasionally, and are silent a LOT of the time, but don’t full-on whinny nearly as often as movies/TV would have you believe. My horse pretty much only does it when my friend drives in the driveway with her horse trailer (to pick us up) and she wants to know which friend she gets to hang out with today. :-)

      4. ArchivesPony*

        As someone who grew up with horses, I have a very hard time watching anything that has horses in it.

    32. Me ... Just Me*

      I feel you. I’m in the medical field. We actually laugh quite a bit about what’s shown on TV about what happens in hospitals.

    33. Enough*

      My husband and I were Civil engineers and they don’t tend to show up in TV shows. But we do notice a lot of things that just are very, very, unlikely to happen in real life. We turn to each other and one will say “it’s television”. Television is not reality. As far as media in general more and more there is a lot information that gets left out. When I read an article I should not still be wondering about the who, what, why, where or how?

    35. Slightly Less Evil Bunny*

      Former biocontainment researcher here. The movie Outbreak was sooooo cringe. Contagion was a bit more accurate – except for the part where the researcher injected herself with the trial vaccine.

      Now I’m a software developer. A field that is never, ever misrepresented in TV and movies. /s

    37. Robin Ellacott*

      I work loosely in substance use treatment, as well as working with a bunch of counsellors, and hoo boy, in movies and TV it shows a lot of people addressing substance use disorders in ways that are black and white at best and cruel/unethical at worst. Therapy scenes in general make me wince a lot of the time.

      Also the number of shows where people drink for hours with colleagues and then happily drive home….

      My dad is an astrophysicist and sci fi movies with him are peppered with muttering about how that’s not how physics works, or there’s no sound in space, or similar.

      1. Robin Ellacott*

        Also this is just a personal pet peeve, but are people at all aware that the moon is not ALWAYS full? Unless it’s a show about werewolves, I object.

        I swear, every single stock shot of the moon is a full moon. Once seen, it cannot be unseen.

        1. I edit everything*

          In books, it’s either full or new, depending on the needs of the character. One of the things I always track (when the moon is mentioned) is how long it’s been since the last time the moon was full, and the current phase.

      2. Gracely*

        Sound in space doesn’t bother me, because I just tell myself that the sound in the vacuum is coming from wherever the music and the light that makes everything visible is coming from. And I would much rather have TV/movies with music and decent lighting than not be able to see much, a la House of Dragons/Game of Thrones.

      3. anon for this*

        I also work in the substance use field…don’t watch that NCIS episode I started this thread with, unless you want to see tons of people dropping dead from being in close proximity to (but not actually ingesting) fentanyl!!!

        So much of the field is poorly represented, but I especially hate how every time there is a character arc involving a relapse, the person goes from being totally sober to all of the sudden binging on every single substance (alcohol, pills, cocaine, etc) all at the same time. And they go into rehab and are sober again by the next episode! Also the lack of any types of treatment being portrayed outside of 12-step meetings. It’s so out of sync with what the process looks like for most people.

    38. The OG Sleepless*

      I’m a veterinarian, and every representation of my job ever in any media is absurd. I hardly know where to start.
      Obviously, we do NOT treat injured criminals so they don’t have to go to the human hospital.

      We don’t sell drugs out the back door to crime lords (thank YOU, Breaking Bad…by the way, the box of stuff they have the big standoff over in the first season? You never see the actual product, but the package color looks like Drontal, a dewormer).

      We don’t have a million exotic species running around everywhere.

      We don’t have ketamine sitting out on a shelf clearly labeled KETAMINE for any yahoo to break in a steal.

      Dr. Pol does NOT represent how most of us do things.

      And like any other medical professional, we spend hours writing charts.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Please tell me that all creatures great and small is an exception. I’ve loved both series made from that and all of his books.

        1. The OG Sleepless*

          I haven’t seen the series, but I loved the books too. For a large animal practitioner in rural Britain in the 1930s, I’m sure it’s pretty accurate. It’s a long, long way from a suburban small animal practitioner in the 2020s, though.

    39. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Honestly the only technical writing I can remember from TV was a very pointed and perfect SNL skit about ambiguous language: ” Remember, you can’t put too much water into a nuclear reactor.”

      Otherwise it’s Tina from Dilbert.

    40. Former museum worker*

      Museum work. Clearly no one knows what a curator does, what they are like, what degrees they have (ahem, NYT crossword puzzle — curators are PhDs, not MFAs), nor how an exhibition is developed and created. Oh, and in a book a read many years ago, there was a wildly fantastical imagining of collection-storage/registrar work, including something like a “bat phone” the connected all registrars in all museums the world over. I laughed out loud.

      Also: Most anything animal science related (my field of museums). The reboot of Planet of the Apes, when they breathe in that magical dust and can instantly talk? Yeah, that’s not how vocal cords work. Humans vocal cords evolved over a very long time to be able to produce the sounds we make in our language; apes’ have not, no matter how intelligent they are. It’s not that they couldn’t manage language, but they literally do not have the physiology to speak English and sound like Andy Serkis.

      PS: My partner hates watching certain types of movies with me.

    41. Indolent Libertine*

      Classical music. Every time, every medium; books unless nonfiction, tv, movies. Plus the totally cringe shots of the actors who took two whole months of lessons!!1! faking their way through miming to the music.

    42. Not that Leia*

      I’m an architect and it appears from movies that we do hardly any work at all but are mostly just available as professional-yet-slightly-arty arm candy.
      Also I’ve literally never used an actual blueprint and I’ve been practicing for YEARS.

    43. noncommittal pseudonym*

      I’ve done forensic DNA in the past, and testified. Yeah. Those tests don’t get done in 10 minutes.

    44. They Don’t Make Sunday*

      Journalism and treatment of sources. The movie 27 Dresses hinges on journalistic malpractice so enormous that it would have gotten the Kevin character fired (rather than promoted). No way would any newspaper reporter write a feature about a regular citizen without revealing that they are the subject of a profile. None of what Jane told Kevin about herself over the course of their relationship was on the record (only the stuff about her sister’s upcoming wedding was). And suddenly, boom! she’s on the front page of the Styles section (or whatever it’s called in the movie) in all the photos that Kevin took of her ALSO off the record because he didn’t have her permission to be photographed for the paper. That movie was fun but it makes journalists look like sneaky, unscrupulous a-holes.

    45. MoMac*

      Therapists are always portrayed as having boundary issues that would cost them their license in the real world.

      1. Agnes*

        Medical researcher here. Clinical trials are always misrepresented; they are always portrayed as some amazing new drug that is being withheld from people for some reason.

        Look, the reason we do trials is we DON”T KNOW IF THE DRUG WORKS. If we did, we wouldn’t need a trial, and it would be astoundingly unethical, and these things are highly regulated and would not be allowed to go forward.
        Also, most trials fail.

    46. WheresMyPen*

      I work in publishing. I wish my salary afforded me the kind of flat Bridget Jones lives in, or Kate Winslet/Jude Laws’ stunning houses in the Holiday. Or even any whole property to myself instead of having to rent a room in a house. But alas not.

      1. WheresMyPen*

        Also forgot to add that my parents were both police officers (in the U.K.) and I can’t watch a police/detective drama without them complaining about the uniform/hair not tied up/wrong rank doing a job/misconduct/100 other complaints

    47. GingerNP*

      Grey’s Anatomy is chock full of physicians doing all the things that nurses and techs/CNAs actually do in the hospital.
      Including compressions when someone is coding.
      Starting IVs, giving medications, walking patients to the bathroom etc etc.

    48. onyxzinnia*

      I could only watch the first two episodes of Emily in Paris for this very reason. She just waltzes into an agency in another country, without even speaking the language or understanding the client brands yet has the audacity to tell them that they’re doing their jobs wrong. And somehow she manages to run a viral social media campaign despite having no background in social media.

  11. Come On Eileen*

    Like many of you, my job went fully remote during the pandemic. Before that, I was working in our main office four days a week and from home one day a week. That one day a week was a real treat! I loved it. But being fully remote five days a week has been SO HARD for me. Most of my co-workers truly love it and never want to go back to being in an office. I hate how isolated and alone it makes me feel. So I sought out a co-working space and signed up. I have a place to get up and go to every morning, with free coffee and desk space and other people working around me. It’s not quite the same as having hundreds of my co-workers working around me but it’s much better for my emotional and mental health than being alone all day long.

    Is anyone here in the same boat? Don’t love being remote and finding creative options to establish a new routine?

    1. Roland*

      I’ve definitely considered it, maybe not every day but sometimes. Do you find that people actually interact with one another at all, or just kind of exist in the same space? I dropped in to one a few timws before the pandemic and no one really interacted but that’s not a lot of data of course.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Sometimes it’s less about interacting with people and more about being around other people’s energy. Shoot, for me that’s all it’s about. I don’t talk to anyone except the person who makes my coffee, but I like being around activity when I work from the coffee shop.

        1. Come On Eileen*

          Yes, agree! While ideally, I’d be interacting in the co-working space with others more than I am now, I really thrive off the routine of having a place to go every day where other professionals are doing the same thing. I like grabbing the communal coffee and making chit chat as I heat up my lunch and showing people how to use the shared printer. I wouldn’t get that from dropping into a coffee shop.

        2. Rosemary*

          When I was in grad school I used to study at the dining room table next to my roommate, despite having a perfectly good desk in my room. I just needed to be around SOMEONE…it helped keep me focused on my work, because he’d think I was weird if I just sat there staring into space or whatever. Now I am 100% WFH and love it, but sometimes do have a bit harder time staying focused.

    2. kiwiii*

      I have a coworker who hauls himself to a coffee shop every other afternoon. He can do most of the job in his home space, but if he didn’t go to the coffee shop, I’d never get task X from him in a timely manner a;sldfkj.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      My last job was fully remote. I was lucky to have a designated office space at home, but sometimes I haaated being there. My partner also worked from home full time (he still does, I was laid off) and that made it harder some days, easier others.

      We live near a food hall and I loved taking my laptop there to have breakfast and work. I would sit at the bar and stare at the bottle display between emails.

      I’m looking for a hybrid job now. :-)

    4. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I really like having a home office that looks out over a small chunk of the city where I live. Natural light is important, of course, but also just the idea of orienting myself to my location and community while I work.

    5. Cookies for Breakfast*

      Yeah, there are many reasons I love working remotely (commuting cost for one, and also the flexibility to have time for a lot of dull housework that would otherwise eat up my weekends), but at the same time I also hate that it makes me feel so lonely.

      The difference for me right now is I’d still feel isolated if I went to the office more often, because most of my colleagues work remotely, so the place is pretty empty on any given day.

      I’ve considered working from a coffee shop one afternoon a week, but haven’t acted on it yet. I’ve considered taking breaks that I dedicate to exercising outdoors, but that would mean running, and running is the thing I do when I’m truly desperate for an outlet (I not so secretly hate it). Really, what I’d love most of all is making friends to do things with after work, which I’m finding almost impossible as an adult. I know having people to connect with about my personal interests (which I love far more than any job I’ve had) would take the sting off the isolation at work.

      1. WheresMyPen*

        I feel the same way. I much prefer being at home to going into the office now, but miss out on the social side as most of my friends are spread around the country and I don’t live in the same city as my office. I am trying to build more groups of friends, eg I love sewing and am quite active on Instagram so put a shout out for other sewists in my area and we’re going to go for a coffee next week. But it’s slow going, I’ve tried so many hobbies and clubs but rarely meet people I’d want to hang out with regularly

        1. WheresMyPen*

          Also you could just go for walks outside with some music or a podcast instead of running! I hate running too, plus having to take the extra 30 minutes to shower and change afterwards

    6. NotBatman*

      Something that helped me was doing ONLY work stuff on my work computer, and ONLY personal stuff on my personal computer. I’d walk over to my work computer where it never left my desk, “clock in” in the morning, and leave it sitting on the desk as I got up to eat or stretch or read AAM on my personal laptop. While I was sitting at my desk, I was mentally in work-mode because I set up the work computer to only give me access to work files and work-relevant websites. In the evening I’d “clock out” and leave the laptop on my desk, not returning to my desk at all until the following morning. Of course, this all assumes your job gave you a computer, so might not help.

      1. Come On Eileen*

        Thank you! I love hearing what works well for other people. Having a defined routine is HUGE for me. At the same time, I need a routine that puts me in the path of other professionals. Staying home alone, even with the countless Zoom meetings we have, doesn’t give me that.

    7. Kristine*

      Nope, you’re definitely not alone in this! I work a hybrid job. Honestly, I’d prefer to work fully in-person, but working remotely 2-3 days a week allows me to get a lot of extra sleep. If my office was next door to my house or something, I’d never work remotely. But I also work in mental health and spend a lot of time processing stuff with my coworkers and vice versa.

    8. Shira VonDoom*

      I only work remotely during Weather, but I don’t have a room I can close off from rambunctious young cats, so while I love them, the INSTANT the road clears, I check with my bosses and I’m back in the office, LOL

      I might feel differently if we had a very busy or loud office, but I’m a legal assistant and usually I’m alone on my side of the suite, so being in office generally means glorious silence AND my furry helpers not doing laps around my laptop and across my lap, and fighting each other, while I’m trying to focus. LOL

    9. allathian*

      I’ve realized that I love hybrid. Unlike you, I really enjoy WFH, and I don’t like my 45-minute commute. I’d hate it if I had to waste 90 minutes a day, every day, on that again. But I enjoy being around my coworkers, and if there’s a genuine reason to be at the office, like an in-person meeting or a birthday celebration, I’m there. I’m also happy that my manager accepts that I won’t get as much work done at the office as I would at home.

      I’m also not alone at home for weeks on end, my husband also WFH most days, and our son’s at school.

      It does help that I’m no longer particularly worried about Covid, and our health authorities, and my employer, are treating it like any other infectious respiratory illness. If I had to mask up at the office, I’d stay home, although I’m glad that we still have sanitizer everywhere.

    10. lunchtime caller*

      I’ve worked from home for many years and always preferred it, but the pandemic was a stark reminder that “work from home” isn’t the same as “working while locked in my home all day every day.” The latter sucks! I have definitely used coworking spaces for a month or two, especially in the winter when I feel extra cooped up, and they help a lot. Same thing with planning to do X task at a coffee shop for a few hours. I’m not sure if it’s relevant to your industry, but making extra efforts to do more in person socializing with people in my field (so usually coffee or drinks with friends, coworkers, contacts, etc) also helps me get some of that energy of other people’s brains that I can then take back to my normal workday.

  12. Hiring manager*

    I am a hiring manager in the process of final round interviews with candidates, hopefully making an offer next week. Our strongest candidate so far (who I will likely be sending an offer to once we finish interviews with everyone) is someone who recently separated from the military and this would be his first civilian job. I have no doubt he has the skills to be successful, but I know there will be a big cultural difference between our (very casual) office and the military and it will probably be an adjustment. What are some things I should keep in mind as a manager to help set him up for success?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’ve given this advice to the soon-to-be-ex military people. A couple things about communications (and this may or may not be necessary, depending on his branch of service and his career path within it).

      1) His jargon won’t be your jargon, but he can learn the equivalents easily. It’s no longer “My CO”, it’s “My boss”. Let him know that you’ll help him with those things.

      2) He may need to learn different question-and-answer habits. Let him know that when you ask him “Did you see the Ferguson report this morning”, it’s a leading question, and what you really mean is “What do you think about it?”

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Let him know that you’ll help him with those things.

        In some questions about interns, I see a lot of people write “my intern is doing XYZ, how do they not know that in an office you have to do ABC!?” And the answer is, “did you tell them to do ABC instead of XYZ? Interns are learning office norms and when they don’t pick things up on their own, you should tell them.”

        Someone with military experience isn’t the same as an intern, but I think having a mindset of “if I see something that deviates from civilian office norms, I will quickly and professionally correct them” will help you approach these situations as they come up.

    2. WorkFromHomerSimpson*

      My experience with former military in their first civilian jobs (including watching my ex after he got out of the Army), is that they often struggle with the lack of procedures and hierarchy in the civilian world.* (*Yes, this is generalizing and won’t apply to all former military or all civilian roles. Please assume my entire comment has that caveat.) In the military, there is literally a procedure for almost everything you can think of, and if there isn’t, then you just do what your CO tells you to do. You don’t do anything on your own without some pretty explicit instructions. In the civilian world, we’re less structured and often expect employees to think on their feet, develop new processes themselves, ask questions, and even challenge their bosses (in a collaborative way). Some people adjust to this quickly, and others really struggle with feeling like they have no structure. One guy spent about 6 months driving himself crazy trying to implement military-level procedures in our otherwise very unstructured workplace and when he finally realized no one else wanted the procedures or would use them, he pronounced us hopeless and quit. Now, we undoubtedly could’ve used a *bit* more structure, but we were never going to be the military. The nature of our business and the culture of our workplace just wouldn’t work that way. He was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. So, my advice is to reflect on the nature of your business and culture and be aware that areas with less structure or more uncertainty might be difficult for former military to adjust to at first. Be very clear about where you expect them to be taking their own initiative and figuring things out for themselves, because that might not be as obvious to them initially.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      As a vet, I would say please let him know that you support him in this transition and that some of your feedback will probably come off as nitpicky, but you’re trying to help him assimilate into the civilian work world.
      If you don’t normally do this, have weekly one on ones with him to give him a venue to ask questions and for you to help him with everything from vocabulary to office norms to how things are done at your specific company.
      Generally, although everyone’s different, you can be much more direct with a vet than civilians. Just shoot straight and don’t beat around the bush with him.
      YMMV depending upon what his job was in the military too. Some roles are very prescribed and follow orders, some make independent decisions and give orders.
      He will also need help understanding corporate benefits and what everyone else in the company does. Walk him through the org chart and really explain how everyone contributes to the company’s mission. And explain what the company’s mission is!
      Good luck and thanks for hiring a vet!

    4. km85*

      One really important thing is to think about the style of leadership/management they’re coming from. Is the individual who is going to be their supervisor a very clear communicator and confident leader? Try to put this person under the most authoritative supervisor possible.

  13. Anecdata*

    Interested in how this works at different offices —

    When people say something like “I’m a junior llama analyst, but I’m regularly taking on projects that would typically be assigned to a senior llama analyst”

    How do you know? (What kinds of projects should be done by what level of IC?) Is there documentation, is it a thing your manager tells you, etc?

    It feels like such a mystery to me, and I don’t know how to figure out if I’m under-leveled or what

    1. Cookies for Breakfast*

      At some workplaces, or for some types of roles, it might well be a thing your manager tells you. I’d lean towards having seen more senior people do similar work and taking it as a clue that the work you’re doing is at a higher level.

      At an old workplace, I made an attempt to pin down my level with a known tech company’s framework my manager swore by, and it was a minefield for a number of reasons.

      I was absolutely taking on tasks that were designed for more senior people…but only through stressful trial and error and a lot of winging it, because I had no training or support (I still feel I’m no better at those than I was a year ago, just more conscious of my strengths and limits).

      I could point to skills at a more senior level in some areas, and skills below my level in others, and didn’t really see that balance changing (some of the skills would drive my role in a direction I didn’t want, others were in areas the company didn’t care one bit about, which put me at a big disadvantage job hunting).

      That leads me to think the quality of the work and what you’re in a good position to learn from it matters, not only the type of project. It’s way too easy for companies to throw “more senior” work at people with the promise of a progression opportunity because it’s the most cost-effective way for them, and with no intention of setting them up for success.

    2. A Penguin!*

      I think it only really works by comparing your projects to that of both other juniors, and to that of seniors. Which can be hard (but not impossible) to assess if you are junior. Rarely is there clear documentation differences there. The only kind of manager who would be likely to tell you this is a good manager who wants to promote you to senior but is being prevented from doing so – a bad manager wouldn’t tell you, and a good one who wasn’t hamstrung from above would make the promotion happen, not just tell you that you were overperforming.

    3. BellyButton*

      Often it is less about what you do, but how you do it. For example, I expect a junior llama analyst to be able to handle roadblocks as they appear and communicate the navigation of the roadblocks, a senior analyst I expect to be able to identify potential roadblocks before they happen and adjust accordingly.

      Another example- I expect a junior llama analyst to be able to execute the project and stick to deliverables and timelines while working with other teams. I expect the senior analyst to be able to determine outcomes, set deliverables and time lines, and facilitate the relationships with the other teams.

      This is just a couple general examples of how I tend to explain it to people.

    4. Relentlessly Socratic*

      I’m in a role that has different level analysts. Jr staff are more heavily supervised and the Sr level are expected to be more independent. The Jr staff might be good at “daily llama grooming” and could be expected to do that with minimal supervision, but not as good at “show day llama grooming” which is a more sophisticated and complex form of grooming, might be given more regularly to the Sr staff. But, as you learn more about “show day” grooming, as a Jr, you might be assigned that to do on your own and could point to that as something seen as more Sr level.

      Is there documentation depends on the co/role/project, but it’s something that your manager or team lead can help you understand (if you’re in a matrixed org, your manager may not know as well as your team lead what’s Jr and Sr.).

      1. Anecdata*

        Thanks, this is really helpful!

        My technical specialty is new to my company, so there are some more junior ppl in our world, but no one more senior (ie we do Analyst 1, 2, Senior, Lead, Staff, Principle). I actually just found out those /are/ the available titles for our IC progression track; I had previously thought thought senior and 2 were the same thing, and just different departments used different names

    5. WantonSeedStitch*

      In some places, that’s in the job descriptions. For example, maybe junior llama analysts have it in their JD that they’re supposed to assist with wool production data projects, but senior llama analysts are supposed to design and lead wool production data projects. If you’re a junior and you’ve designed and led a project, that would be an example of doing senior-level work.

      1. Anecdata*

        Ooh, interesting
        It is not in our job descriptions, but we also often use a single posting to cover multiple possible levels (ie. We post for llama analyst, but might hire a 1, 2 or senior analyst out of those applicants)

  14. AITA?*

    Curious what the commentariat might say about the following…

    I manage a department of 3. We have been temporarily short-staffed for about a month, returning to full capacity next month. One of my senior staffers asked to take a week off later this month, leaving my department of 3 to a department of 1 (plus me) They are aware that next month we will be fully staffed. Their request was general and specifically noted that it wasn’t for a particular occasion or event. I am very supportive of folks going on vacation — I literally have to badger my staff NOT to respond to work stuff and I try not to send them anything unless they need it when they return. But, I am irritated that this person can’t wait a week until we return to full capacity. Am I wrong to want to ask them to hold off a week?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Don’t start off irritated– assume good intent. “I know you asked for this specific week– would you be able to do the following week, when Clarissa starts?” Then accept the answer. This person is probably burned out. Or can you ask for a compromise, like Thursday and Friday off the “bad” week and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off the “good” week?

        1. Molly*

          I’m not wild about this as a compromise. When someone takes a Monday thru Friday week off, they also get two weekends. Having to spit the week like that would feel like I got shorted. I know it’s technically 7 days vs 9 days, but that extra weekend can make a big difference.

          Can your department adjust its workload?

          Also, if the fully staffed future means you’re getting new people, they won’t be up to speed immediately anyway. I’d let the person take the standard Mon-Fri week, they’ll be refreshed, and the dept can get back up to speed when they return.

      2. AITA?*

        I would be hard pressed to say burn out… they’ve taken 3.5 weeks off in the past 4 months. I don’t fault them for taking the time off… I’m just clarifying that their schedule has not changed so drastically that they haven’t been able to take time off.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          That’s new info, and it does change things– if they’ve taken that much time off, then just tell them you’d prefer they wait until you’re fully staffed.

        2. This Old House*

          I was going to say to make sure it’s not something like the person needing to use time by the end of the month or it stops accruing or something, but with that amount of time taken recently that also seems unlikely.

    2. Massive Dynamic*

      Your annoyance is justified, but you really shouldn’t say anything to your employee. Just give them the week they asked for. They could have a reason for needing that particular week, and you are not entitled to any reason from them.

      1. Cut & Run*

        I agree. I would be a little frustrated and annoyed and you’re NOT the A. No one in this situation is. Ultimately, I would just accept it, because while the week will be a massive inconvenience, you’ll quickly forget about it shortly after they return.

        1. AITA?*

          I won’t forget about it unfortunately. This staffer has a tendency to not manage their time well. They have called out sick/handyman/flood on days they know we’re busy or if something hasn’t gone according to plan. Last minute doctor’s appointments have cropped up when asked to work on something or visit one of our work sites. We’ve had a few conversations around it, but as a long-time employee and one that my boss likes (I’ve talked to her about this), there’s not a whole lot I can do beyond pointing out the situation to my staffer and providing course correction. And while I would never cite this as an example officially (low-stakes), it feels par for the course in how they operate and frustrating.

          1. Massive Dynamic*

            Ah, yes that info changes things. A chronic absentee, no matter how good each reason is on its own, is frustrating as hell to manage. I hope that you can show your boss the big-picture effect of all of this to get her backing at some point to manage your employee on a more macro level there. As in, making an explicit requirement for __% attendance, mandatory deadlines, etc.

            For this specific week away, it does seem like a gentle inquiry into if there is flexibility in the week they take off is warranted. Your employee probably WON’T read between the lines that their absence is once again affecting the team, but I guess there’s a small chance that they actually could switch the week away.

          2. Spearmint*

            I mean, people don’t get decide when they’re sick or need a repairman, so I don’t see how them calling out at inconvenient times for you is at all a strike against them.

            1. I edit everything*

              The implication is that the callouts are more frequent than most people experience, and might be “conveniently” scheduled for days when the expectations at work are higher.

    3. ShysterB*

      If in fact you were to continue to be short-staffed past next month (or the month after, or the month after …), how would you respond to a request for time off?

      I think it’s human, and understandable, to want to ask your employee to hold off especially if you are 100% absolutely positively sure you will approve the request as soon as you’re up to full staffing levels. But it’s not your employee’s fault that you’re short-staffed, and they shouldn’t be required to postpone use of a benefit because the company failed to maintain adequate staffing for any period of time.

      1. AITA?*

        If we were short-staffed for a longer period or indeterminate amount of time, I wouldn’t think twice about it… People deserve to take vacation. It’s explicitly the fact that we will be fully staffed the following week.

        1. Katiekins*

          You’ll be fully staffed, but will you be fully operational? Maybe your worker thinks the new staff will take some time learning the job and looks at it like we won’t be up and running 100 percent for a while anyway, so I might as well take time off now.

            1. Katiekins*

              I think it’s reasonable, with a staff of three, to say that only one person can be off st a time, especially if the other person’s leave was just one month.

              1. cncx*

                I work in a team of three and barring illness/emergencies/ etc we can only be off one at a time over a week due to coverage. Like, if one of us is on vacation, it’s fine for someone to take one day off or have a handyman issue but not the whole week. The idea is we have this rule and then it takes a lot of bad luck for us to be down two. It wouldn’t even occur to me to take off the week before someone was coming back. So I’m team NTA here.

    4. I should really pick a name*

      Please do what you can to remove the irritation from it. There’s nothing wrong with them asking.

      It sounds like you’ve got a real business reason to ask them to delay. Have a conversation about it. Maybe they’re open to moving the time off. Maybe they’ll give you a reason that justifies being really short staffed for a week.

      1. Ins mom*

        But when your new person arrives there will be training and orientation etc. will it be any better??

    5. JustMyImagination*

      Perhaps they want that week off because they anticipate being involved in the new person’s training and want to be available?

      1. AITA?*

        It’s not a new person starting, but even if it was, they wouldn’t be specifically tasked with that person’s training.

    6. Lost my name again*

      I’ll add this, while they did not share the specific occasion or event with you, that doesn’t mean there isn’t really one. You’ve been understaffed for a while now, one week won’t break anything.

        1. Me ... Just Me*

          It sounds that you are generally irritated with this person. You are tracking their days off as if it’s a personal affront to you. So, let’s bring this back a level. Does your company generally allow folks to take sick days as a benefit? Does the person have accrued vacation that is available for them to use as a benefit? If the answer is “yes” then you may just need to let this go. Not liking the person doesn’t justify this level of scrutiny. Obviously, it’s okay to be irritated that they don’t stay late or were out sick during a busy time, but things like that happen — be irritated about the situation rather than at the person. Managers have to find a way to treat people that they don’t particularly like with the same level of care and respect as those they do like.

          1. AITA?*

            I don’t dislike the person, I actually like them as a person. I take issue with how they manage their time. They have a pattern of unreliable behavior when it comes to their schedule. Calling out sick when bad things happen, asking to work remotely on Fridays due to repair issues (we’re hybrid and need a staffer in the office every day). They’ve had last-minute appointments after confirming they were able to attend a meeting. I take issue with this pattern and have kept track of it because, well, there’s a pattern. And I’m not the only person impacted by it, because my other staffer often has to pick up some of the slack that is left as a result of said pattern.

            1. Supervisorintraining*

              On its own, the request is harmless and the response should be the same as any time off request (regardless of staffing): Is their presence truly critical for that period of time? The answer is usually no (unless say, you’re a tax preparer trying to take off the week prior to filing deadlines). The other staffers would have to pick up the slack, but that is the case for any time off request. (And as the manager, you’ll have to pick some items that just may not get done during that week).

              As far as this goes, this is how you need to evaluate the staffer’s request. Based on your comments, it sounds like you are mixing this individuals’ spotty attendance (which is an issue and needs to be managed) with their time off requests (which is unrelated and not an issue). These two things are separate and should be viewed as such.

              As to the workload, it sounds like you are trying to accomplish everything your team normally would, despite being understaffed. As the manager, I strongly recommend you look at what items can be deferred/dropped until you are back at full staffing.

    7. RagingADHD*

      NAH. It is reasonable under the circumstances to ask them to wait, but don’t get tetchy about it.

  15. Hlao-roo*

    The advice I’ve seen about leaving short jobs off your resume is because most people haven’t accomplished anything notable. Sounds like you do have some worthwhile accomplishments, so it may be worth putting those on your resume.

    Be sure you have a good explanation for why you left this job after 3 months. (Not clear to me if you got laid off from the 3-month position–if so, that’s your good explanation.)

      1. Cut & Run*

        Oh good, I’m not the only one experiencing some posting issues :) I’ve never posted so soon after the gates opened and the traffic must be intense.

  16. Sharkie*

    I witnessed the most uncomfortable firing this week and I just had to tell someone about it!

    2 of our part time staff were laid off. They were rude to everyone, petty, and no difficult to be around. The director of the department called them in a meeting in their office, and must of been worried of how they would react because our company’s security was called. No big deal, but the 2 security guys just hovered at my desk the whole time since it is right outside the director’s office! Also the office has a glass wall that isn’t as sound proof as the other offices so I accidently heard a few things.

    It was so awkward for us in the office cause obviously something was up (this director never has closed door meetings) but we had to pretend that we didnt notice what was going on!

    1. rayray*

      I absolutely hate when this happens. Sounds like this was a justified firing but it’s also super weird that they did that with both of them at the same time. There was one time when I was made aware that someone would be let go later that week. I was at a desk right next to the conference room so when that person was brought in, I knew what was happening so I just left and hung around other parts of the office.

      We’ve had lots of layoffs at my company this year. It’s so horrible each time when you see people packing up their desk in front of everyone else, usually holding back tears. Absolutely awful to let someone go and then the bosses and sometimes even security hanging around. That person had no idea when they walked in that morning that they’d just have their livelihood stripped away and then they get the added bonus of humiliation packing up their desk while the rest of us don’t know if we should ignore it or what we could say or do.

      I know when these things happen it’s not as if the bosses are scheming and evil-laughing about it, but I seriously wish they’d go about it differently. I was luck the one time I was laid off, I was planning my exit anyway and didn’t keep much at my desk so I basically just picked up my stuff in my arms and walked out. I also had a smaller audience, only 2 people and I think one person was completely oblivious anyway. My boss did however, trick me into moving my car around so that I could hand over my parking badge, so I did feel really stupid for that.

      1. Sharkie*

        I explained it oddly, but it was one after the other and then both of them went in to do union things (IDK what it was it is since I am not union).

        I totally agree on the rest though. Thankfully they don’t have desks, or were not even allowed to access our offices normally so there wasn’t any awkward tears while packing. Since they were only super part time, this isn’t their only jobs. They both on multiple occasions have sad how much they hate working here, love their real jobs, and how they love doing nothing for $35/ hr.

        I am sorry if I am sounding too harsh, they made part of my job more difficult for fun and were not great people so I am a bit biased.

    2. Unkempt Flatware*

      Man. I once had a cube mate get fired and he came back and cried at me, fluids pouring out, and did a sort of bridge-lean against my only exit path. If I wanted to run away, I would have had to go under him London Bridge-style, if that helps illustrate. Firings of others in the same office you’re in is so so awkward and terrible.

    3. Lana Kane*

      Ooof, I can relate! I had this happen to me years when I was a receptionist. An employee, “Annie”, who was already on thin ice was overheard saying something like “I can’t stand HR Director, I wish (some sort of harm would come to her, I can’t remember what)”. This was taken as a direct threat, so the day she was going to get fired they parked a security guard in the reception area. I think the meeting was close to noon so he hung out there with me (just me!) all morning until the meeting. People kept coming in and out and would eye me questioningly (Annie even asked me when we ran into each other in the bathroom, although she didnt suspect it was about her) , but obviously I couldn’t say anything. Although Annie wasn’t my favorite person, I’m sure she didnt actually mean to make a threat, but even back then workplace violence was a thing. Fortunately the perp walk was out of sight of everyone else (except of course me, it was awful).

    4. Gatomon*

      That’s awful! I’ve been through a firing and layoff at my company and they do it differently.

      The employee is called into a meeting with their boss and HR to receive the news. While this is happening, everyone in their workspace/team gets pulled into a conference room by another manager. Those of us in the conference room are informed and have to chill out in there until the ex-employee finishes their meeting, gathers their things and leaves. It’s disruptive to our work, but it does spare the ex-employee from having to pack up in front of everyone while crying, etc. I’m surprised that’s not how other places do it.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        Yeah, that’s how I’ve done at previous in the office jobs. It lets folks keep their dignity!

      2. rayray*

        this is a much better way of handling it than letting people be there to spectate, and then management getting mad when people start talking and rumors start going about. What do they expect to happen?

    5. Me ... Just Me*

      I’ve been laid off twice – both were a reduction in force, so others also lost their positions. For both, I got sent a mysterious meeting invite from my boss with no explanation. The first time, I casually thought about it early in the day (because it was so unusual) but honestly didn’t think that it would happen. During the first one, they did have someone inform my team at the same time I was being informed, and so that was helpful. The second time, I was prepared & had moved my stuff out of my office well before the meeting and had told my direct reports that I suspected that I was getting laid off. It’s intrinsically embarrassing, but there’s no getting past that. Both were at the end of the day — which I thought was crappy. I’m salaried, so I guess they wanted the full day’s work out of me if they were having to pay me. It’s long been my policy to not bring anything personal to work that won’t fit into a single cardboard box — I still remember a coworker who had brought in furniture and artwork, and it was super embarrassing when she departed with security in tow, and had to come back later with a pick up to clean out her office.

    6. Luca*

      PastEmployer let about a dozen people go out of nowhere, sending shockwaves through the office.

      Afterward I came to think they originally planned stealth layoffs. One casualty, Serena, worked for Fred who was fired for unrelated reasons. I think the official story, if they’d needed one, would have been that Fred left and Serena’s position was no longer necessary.

      But before they could cut Fred loose, he and Serena had a huge blow-up which sank that idea. So to get rid of her, they had to let all the casualties go en masse and let the fallout land where it would.

  17. Elle*

    Today I forwarded my team a paid opportunity within our org that would involve working with families who have experienced the loss of a child. One of my team members responded back with dollar sign emojis. I think that’s unprofessional and tasteless. Yes you can earn extra money but it’s an intense job that requires a lot of empathy. Is this something I let go or speak to her in the spirit of professional growth?

    1. Come On Eileen*

      If it’s the first time you’ve seen this employee behave unprofessionally, it feels like a small transgression that I’d let go. If it’s part of a larger pattern you’ve noticed, say something.

      1. Sharkie*

        I agree. It could just be that they saw the “paid opportunity”, stopped reading and got excited.

    2. kiwiii*

      I can’t tell if you’re the manager in this situation or another team member, but i think if you have any seniority or authority over her, it would be a kindness to let her know that it came off strangely. if you’re on equal footing, I’d probably ignore it though.

      2. Elle*

        I am the supervisor here and this is a “head full of soup” type of employee. There have been times where her comments have seemed “off” but this is the first time it’s really bothered me.

        1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

          I think you should speak to her but since she’s proven to be rather tone-deaf you’ll need to be specific in the behaviors that you are expecting from her, rather than vague prompts to think or read more closely hoping that she’ll have an epiphany on her own. I would suggest no more responding with emojis because that’s not the most professional anyway, but she in particular lacks awareness of when they are appropriate and when they aren’t; if she had sent a thumbs up emoji, it would still be less than ideal, but more appropriate to the tone.

    3. Onward*

      “Hey, just a heads-up, I don’t think you read this email all the way before responding. I would probably do that going forward.”

      I think this would cause them to stop and look back on the email you send and their response. If they don’t see a problem with it, they suck. Bad. If they’re a decent human, they’d be mortified and be careful about their responses in the future.

      1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

        I don’t think that is direct enough for a head full of soup employee! OP should talk to her and name the problem. “Soupy, it was not professional to respond to an email about working with bereaved families with dollar sign emojis.”

    4. Me ... Just Me*

      IDK. Does your company handle these sorts of things as a matter of course? If they typically work with these families and this is just “a day at the office” for them, I can see that they might be inured to the emotional impact. Those of us who are placed in difficult emotional situations on the daily may not communicate within our own teams as delicately as we would when we are public facing.

      1. Elle*

        You’re right! I’ve noticed that in my many years as a social worker. Our org does have programs that handle this work on a daily basis. Out team does not and this employee has no experience in the job that was posted.

  18. Lizy*

    Outlook keeps disconnecting whenever I send an email (desktop version). Apparently there’s nothing wrong, according to my IT. Riiiiigggghhhhttt….

    On another note, my wireless keyboard and mouse connect most of the time. And then sometimes… it just… stops typing… It’s a logitech keyboard. The mouse connectivity is better than the keyboard, but it also has issues. I’ve replaced batteries, no change. If I change the wireless port thingy to another port it sometimes helps, but not always. If I move the keyboard (like from my pull-out keyboard thing to on top of my desk) it sometimes helps, but not always. IT says it’s because the wireless doesn’t have a “direct line of sight” which… it didn’t have when I had the exact same keyboard and mouse setup at 2 previous jobs and it worked just fine then but riiiiiggggghhhhhtttt….

    So I’m hoping the loverly AAM community might have some bright ideas lol

    1. NotRealAnonforThis*

      Question, and specifically for your mouse: how old is it?

      I had one up and quit on me at around 4 years. IT looked at it and said ::shrug:: “get a new one”. New mouse, no problems at all.

    3. RecentlyRetired*

      Are there any background processes that your computer is using it’s memory and/or CPU time on? I’d open the Task Manager to see what level of CPU and memory is being used by specific applications.
      Then you have a datapoint to give to your IT department.

    4. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I’m assuming that IT made sure you are all up-to-date on software? If it’s not automatic, I would run updates on your OS and Microsoft apps. I have had intermittent trouble with MS 365 apps and they just did a big update in November 2022, so you might need to reinstall the apps.

      Next, it does sound like the mouse and keyboard need to be replaced. My first gen Apple mouse died slowly about the same way you describe — first it just acted sluggish, then it would disconnect frequently and new batteries didn’t help.

    5. Mill Miker*

      I’ve had some trouble before with USB hard drives causing interference, especially if they’re plugged in to ports on the same board.

      For example, the model of MacBook I had at my last job would have terrible trouble with bluetooth when an external, usb-c, SSD drive was plugged in on the left side, because the bluetooth antenna and the port were so close together.

      So, I guess try disconnecting everything except the wireless dongle, and see if it works better?

    6. Gatomon*

      I agree with just replacing the mouse and keyboard, they’re cheap these days and don’t last.

      As for Outlook, I had an issue where it would disconnect silently. I think they ultimately upgraded me from Office 2016 to Office 365 to solve it. Nothing else worked and I think we even replicated the issue on both my laptop and desktop clients.

    7. time for cocoa*

      My personal wireless accessories use Bluetooth, and my work wireless accessories use USB receivers. Despite everyone swearing up and down that similar systems won’t interfere with each other, they do, so I gave up and purchased the alternate type.

    8. Hermione*

      This might sound crazy, but I had some problems with my mouse and keyboard when I got a new metal drinking tumbler (mine was simply modern). Once I realized, I just moved my laptop towards my non-dominant hand so the line of sight was better (easier than retraining where I put my cup down) and haven’t had a single problem since.

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        I hate to sound like the stereotypical “did you try turning it off and back on again?” IT answer, so I’m assuming you already checked the mouse/keyboard batteries if yours has them to make sure they aren’t dead, but worth a check if you haven’t for some reason.

        Also worth checking the drivers for updates if IT hasn’t done that already.

        I’ve had logitech mice die on me more frequently in the last few years. One was still under warranty and they replaced the receiver. Took a while to get, but it was free and I had an extra backup mouse in the meantime.

  19. Freelance/contract privacy*

    Any other freelancers/contractors here with NDA clients? How do you prove your work history to bid for new assignments? I have a few I can share, but not enough to confirm that I have a solid/consistent history.

    1. desdemona*

      Can you list the clients, but indicate “Projects with this client are under an NDA”?

      Or ask the client that once the project is announced/out in the world, you are allowed to talk about it/name the project on your resume?

      1. SweetestCin*

        And if not, can you “silo it” but keep it anonymous?

        I’ve had projects where I’d have to give things a generic title with no indication of the end user, client, or location due to NDA.

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Any chance your clients have other freelancers and/or a policy for confirming work? Does your NDA cover ‘I cannot talk about what I’m doing but here’s my contact’s number for a reference’ or is it more along the lines of ‘I cannot in any way acknowledge that I am connected to this company’?

    3. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      I “file the serial numbers off” — remove or change information that would identify the company, client, or project — and then put it in my portfolio. That may not work for you depending on the type of work, but it should be enough to convince an employer that you’re not making it up.

    5. Rosemary*

      Are you asking if you can even say you worked for specific clients, or share work examples/include in your portfolio work from clients? My company hires freelancers to work on client projects and we have them sign an NDA. However that just covers the work product; they are free to say “I worked for Company X.”

  20. Corrigan*

    We went through a lot of changes in leadership in my office and our new (6 months) director is….not great. She hasn’t really taken the time to get to know anyone or learn our processes, but keeps telling us that we’re doing stuff wrong. You can’t get her to have a conversation about how to actually improve the process…but it’s wrong. You’ll send her updated guidance and she won’t ever look at it and get back to you. But then she complains that everything is still wrong. Our leadership meetings are all her talking and not hearing anyone else’s ideas She presents these half thought out plans to the entire office, which just confuses everyone, then I and my peers are fielding questions from confused analysts who don’t know what she wants.

    All that being said, I think I’m in my boss sucks and isn’t going to change territory. So my question is how do I explain why I’m leaving? I like my field, I like my direct boss, I like my co-workers, and I like my position. I have an interview coming up for a very similar job just…somewhere else. I don’t want to badmouth my employer, so how can I convey why I want to leave?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Some generic options:
      It was time for a change
      Ready for a change of pace
      Interest in something specific new job place does that old job doesnt
      Lack of opportunities for growth in previous role

    2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      “I’m looking for an opportunity to make a difference in improving things for the organization and its customers.”

    3. Totally Minnie*

      I think this depends on why you’re explaining yourself in the first place. Are you looking for a way to explain why you’re leaving to future interviewers? To your boss and coworkers when you resign? To HR so they can make systemic changes to stop more people from leaving?

      Each of these would be a different answer.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        Sorry, I missed your ending statement that it’s about an interview.

        In that case, I’d go with something like “the culture has changed at my current workplace and I don’t feel like it’s the right fit for me at this stage in my career. I’m looking for an environment that…” and fill in with the kinds of things you’re hoping for.

    4. Not teenage but still ninja turtle*

      “We’ve had a number of significant leadership changes that has taken our company culture in a different direction.”

      “My current company has recently undergone quite a bit of change at the top, and I’m looking for an organization with solid/stable leadership I can count on.”

  21. Suzi Quatro*

    Last week’s letter about Ronald who had boundless enthusiasm and a head full of soup brought one of my own conundrums to mind. There is a Ronald on my team who’s slightly senior to me (but we share a manager). He’s not as hopeless as the one in the letter: soup only gets spilt occasionally, but when it does it’s spectacular. When he was in charge of a budget he had a habit of getting distracted by shiny things and signing up for them without consulting the rest of the team. On one occasion this resulted in the duplication of a piece of work I’d put a lot of time and effort into. Sometimes he ends up treading on the toes of other people, inside and outside the team. However! He does occasionally have good ideas that do make sense. He’s otherwise a nice enough guy, and we get on OK when we’re just talking socially.

    My problem is that every time I see his name pop up in my email, I have an instinctive, furious, ‘Ugh, Ronald’ reaction. It’s not ideal either way: if it’s a terrible soupy idea that he’s throwing at me, I have to tamp down my rage at being asked to deal with this ridiculous soup; if it’s a decent idea, I still have to tamp down my rage. This is not something I like much about myself.

    Assuming that he’s not going to change in any meaningful sense, and that we’re both in it for the long haul (neither of us is anywhere near retirement age, I like my job and I assume he likes his, and nobody gets fired around here), does anybody have any tips for walking back a BEC attitude?

    1. ShysterB*

      I have no advice, I just want to say that this just reinforces the “head full of soup” as something I NEED to use to describe certain people in my office.

      “Oh, don’t mind me, Larry’s head is full of soup and I need to clean up a small spill….”

    2. kiwiii*

      I do not have real advice, but we also have a (new last year!) Ronald on our team (who it sounds like is much more strange socially than yours), and I have coped so far by having a couple coworkers in a chat where we send head-desk gifs to each other whenever he Ronalds up the full team chat.

    3. jane's nemesis*

      I have never been able to walk back a BEC attitude towards someone, unfortunately – the only thing that helps me is distance (i.e. switching teams to be in a different department; then her BECiness became funny instead of driving me absolutely nuts) from the person.

      I like the idea of trying to make it a joke or trying to find the humor in his soupiness. Every time you get irrationally angry even when he has a good idea, imagine the soup tureen inside his brain and think about how at least THIS time, he remembered to put a lid on it! Imagine funny soup ingredients sloshing around in there, or something. Maybe you can trick your brain into going straight to finding him amusing and skip the BEC rage step?

    4. Warrior Princess Xena*

      A suggestion I have purloined from Captain Awkard: first, when you see an email, classify it into ‘soup’ or ‘nonsoup’. If it’s a nonsoup idea, tell yourself that – “this is a useful suggestion for better optimizing llama grooming”. If it’s a soup idea, give yourself a set time to be irritated about it, kvetch and groan in your head, etc – then after the end of the time (she recommended maybe 5 minutes) you have finished your alloted fuming time and it’s time to go and deal with the practical parts (maybe emailing back to point out the issues with the idea).

      If you are being saddled with extra work because of Ronald, I would be very clear with your supervisor that extra work is happening and ask how to handle it.

    6. M*

      If you’re at all spiritually or mindfully inclined, try loving-kindness meditation with him in mind. It’s gotten me out of BEC mode with people. Might sound weird but for me it really helped.

  22. The Problem With Mr. Collins*

    I raised concerns about my boss to HR for the first time, and I’m very nervous. Some background: over several months, Mr. Collins (my boss) has become increasingly verbally abusive toward me, so much so that other people have noticed—including his own boss, Lady Catherine. During my performance review, I tried raising my concerns to Mr. Collins, but he insisted that managing people this way was how he learned and he has no intention of changing. Basically, I need to get over it.

    Well, this week, I met with Lady Catherine and HR, and they both agreed they need to speak to him next week, but that doesn’t help my fear that this will just make everything worse. He has a tendency for blowing up when things don’t go his way.

    Has anyone gone through this before and escalated an issue to HR? How did it go? Any stories would be really helpful. I don’t know what to expect.

    1. Sharkie*

      oh I am so sorry you are dealing with this! Since I am not your HR I don’t know what will happen, but the fact that your grandboss is on board that his treatment of you is not ok is a good sign!

      1. Kitty Bennet*

        Thank you! She’s definitely been very supportive and agreed his behavior isn’t acceptable. I’m hopeful that will help my case.

    2. Totally Minnie*

      One thing to keep in mind is that supervisors are not allowed to retaliate against staff who make good faith reports to HR. If Mr. Collins escalates his behavior after HR talks to him, you go straight back to HR and tell them about it.

    3. RecentlyRetired*

      I had to take one event to HR and Ethics (since my old company is a government contractor). I won the battle against the two of them (my direct supervisor and his mentor), but felt like I lost the war. They didn’t end up getting more than a hand-slap from HR. Another manager that I worked with wouldn’t even meet with me in his office without a witness after that, so my name/reputation had become mud.
      I transferred to another division/location of the same company within a year. Maybe I took the “easy” route. I really don’t know what would have happened if I had stayed and fought to get my reputation back.
      But I still felt that my situation would have been worse if I hadn’t brought it to HR/Ethics.

    4. Mojo021*

      Be sure to document any issues that may happen after he is spoken to as it could be considered retaliation.

    5. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I had to do this at my last job about a year before I retired (these were unrelated events) and it went well. My grandboss was receptive and supportive, she followed up with me so I knew she’d taken action (didn’t tell me what action, of course) and my boss made enough of a change to improve the climate. It can go well.

    6. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      I’d tell yourself a story, from the perspective of you a year from now.

      Describe what happened; how you felt and coped, and what the final outcome was. The intent is to capture all the things you’re experiencing and afraid of, and write them all down so they’re not just floating around ominously in your head. Then finish the story from the perspective of it being over and you survived. That can give you a sense of relief.

      So the structure would be something like:

      What happened: “A year ago in February 2023, I had this work issue! I even wrote in to AAM about it. I did a bunch of things (list out the things – went to HR, went to grand boss, had a couple awkward meetings, had to go back to HR a couple times) …”

      How you feel: “…and I was worried about it and felt queasy and increased how much I was exercising so I’d have an outlet and took up watercolor classes … “

      How it turned out: “… and it [was awkward for a while but turned out okay][was a disaster and I got a new job][made Mr Collins my bff and now things are so great I have invited him to speak at my wedding].”

  23. Help, please!*

    Advice on “managing up” when your supervisor is completely burned out/emotionally drained due to several organizational upheavals and the sudden death of a colleague? I would love to take work off his plate and be a source of support, but despite multiple offers, I think he is just too overwhelmed to delegate.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Anticipate if you can, instead of waiting to be assigned task A you can offer to do task A. Hey George I saw TPS reports are due next week, want me to go ahead and do the draft for those?

    2. Combinatorialist*

      I agree with DisneyChannelThis that the more specific you can be, the more you can be useful. Depending on your supervisor/relationship, I might even go a step further and just announce you are going to be doing it with something like “Unless you have an objection, I will draft the TPS report and have a copy to you for review by Wednesday”

  24. Unemployable?*

    Unemployed for almost a year. Have had about 20 interviews overall, no takers. Am pretty sure it is mostly from being a terrible interviewee since I can get the interviews. I prepare A LOT before each one. Reviewed AAM’s How to Get a Job. Have had a few practice sessions through my professional org. Any other tips to being better at this?

    1. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

      It’s pretty difficult to gauge without knowing more about your experience. do you have any friends in managerial roles who you could do a mock interview with?

      Also, anecdata, but my parter had like about 10 interviews which all seemed to go well until they landed their current job. It could depend on the field–tech jobs, especially WFH, are incredibly competitive these days. It really could just be bad luck, if you are already getting feedback on your interview performance!

      Some other random thoughts…
      – Is there any possible disconnect between your resume and your actual experience that comes up in the interview? Like do you have a position on your resume that sounds like X but was actually more like Y? (For example, being an “analyst” that involved only qualitative analysis and no quant?)
      – Do you typically use specific questions or types of responses in your interviews? Maybe there is one that is shaking things up. For example, I have found that lots of people suggest some ending question of “is there anything on my resume that gives you pause or that I could explain in more detail?” and personally I have found that question to be a complete interview-killer. It never comes across positively. So I dropped it, and my interview success went up in correlation.

      1. Unemployable?*

        I’ve had mock interviews through my professional org. My resume and cover letter are very accurate, no padding. I don’t know what I’m saying in interviews that isn’t working out. Other than usually they feel like they have gone very badly. I think maybe 4 out of the 20 I felt good about afterwards. All I can think is that I have social anxiety, and interviews are pretty much always meeting people for the first time. So it’s just always awkward.

        1. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

          So, this is again anecdotal, but I have a hypothesis that especially for people with high anxiety or self-focused attention, your feelings about an interview are completely uncorrelated (and maybe negatively correlated) with interview success. Reasoning: when we can subconsciously tell when things are going wrong, our body releases dopamine and adrenaline to help us feel more assertive and approach-oriented. But when your brain *doesn’t* pick up on objective cues of negativity from the interviewer, your typical thought pattern (read: “I suck and this went horribly”) is more likely to take precedence. Just in my own experience, I find that I have had better success with interviews that I *felt* went badly, and worse success in interviews where I walked out feeling like I clinched it.

          But back to your actual question.
          – What is your demeanor like in interviews? Another beneficial psychology approach I have found, as a young-ish woman, is to show my anxiety as enthusiasm. AKA: I want this job so much that I’m a little nervous about it (true!). Tamping down that anxiety and trying to come across as neutral seems to work less effectively for me. I wonder if you could ask mock interviewers about all aspects of the interview- not just your fit, but how you come across as a person and potential coworker.

          – Similarly, do you ever speak positively or negatively about your current job? (What has worked for me: saying I love my current teammates but am looking for a change in project focus; when speaking about difficulties, speak about them in very PC terms while smiling/laughing a bit to show “we all know how annoying these interactions can be”, etc).

          – Do you ever speak about projects you are proud of or would like to expand on that fit with the new org?

          1. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

            Edit: based on your comment below, I honestly thing the 12 pages of notes is one of the main factors that is hurting your interviews. So please focus on that more so than my questions above!

    2. rayray*

      I am sorry you’re going through this! I also have a hard time interviewing so I get it.

      Not sure where you live, but I am in the USA and my state has a Department of Workforce Services where you can utilize services to help find a new job, and I think one of those services is to do practice interviews. The local major church denomination also has a service, though I honestly did find much of their advice to be a little dated, the interview practice is probably one of the better things they offer.

      One thing I try to do to practice is to think of common interview questions and then write answers down. I can also go back and do this over and over again. One tip, if you are doing interviews over zoom/teams/other video service, you can write yourself notes on the sticky notes (if you use windows) and then you can have that pulled up to look at while interviewing.

      I sincerely wish you the best of luck, interviewing can be brutal for some of us. We can have all the technical skills and qualifications for the job, but whether it’s nerves or personality or anything, interviewing can be so easy for some people and so hard for others.

      1. Unemployable?*

        I have like 12 pages of notes that I use in interviews, which maybe is my problem? Because it looks like I’m reading. But without the notes… I will freeze. I will not have an answer. What is my name? Couldn’t tell you.

        To me, there is no part of a job that is related to interviewing at all. I’m fine with having meetings, giving presentations, whatever in a job. It’s just interviews that I majorly suck at.

        So I don’t know how to ditch the notes.

        2. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Twelve pages of notes is a lot. Are these full answers that you’re reading from? If they are, start there– if you condense your paragraphs into key words or phrases, or bullet points, would that help?

          Remember that an interview IS a presentation– if you’re good at presentations, think of each interview as a meeting in which you present about yourself. Prepare like you would for any presentation. Make slides if it helps, not to show to your interviewer, but to prepare what you’ll say.

        3. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

          Oh boy, yes, this is likely a factor. 12 pages of notes is WAY too much. you said it yourself that you are spending time looking over the notes, which is likely disrupting the flow of the interview and highlighting the fact that you need copious resources to talk about your own experience. Unless you need ADA accommodations, you absolutely need to practice interviewing without them. (If you do need those accommodations, that’s fine! But I suggest working on putting those 12 pages int a 1-2 page cheat sheet.)

        4. Chutney Jitney*

          Can you convince yourself an interview is just a meeting? That really is true. They will have questions, you will present answers, you are trying to help them solve the problem of whom to hire for this position. They would love for it to be you so they can stop looking.

          I mean, if you can present (!) then it’s definitely the framing in your head that’s the problem.

        5. Gracely*

          Oh man. It’s definitely the notes. I would seriously worry about hiring someone who can’t do an interview without 12 pages of notes.

          Can you turn those into a short outline that would fit into a page? And then practice interviewing with just that. As someone else said, think of it as doing a meeting or presentation about yourself.

        6. rayray*

          I think everyone works differently, but sometimes the writing down answers part isn’t necessarily for the cheat-sheet aspect, but to help you formulate your answers in a good way. This is why I try to re-write answers frequently, or refer back to it to see if maybe Friday-morning me has something better than what Tuesday-evening me was thinking.

          1. Unemployable?*

            I write out all the questions I think they might possibly ask based on the job description (I always miss a few that seem important), prepare for those questions, write out my answers.

            I’ve tried memorizing the answers, but I’m not very good at that. I’ve just had to many instances of freezing up without an answer that I don’t know how to solve that issue. I can always think of the answer after the interview, of course.

            I can try to make it into an outline.

            1. Mill Miker*

              One of the interview prep course things I’ve done focused on having a handful of events from your previous job experiences that you know inside-and-out.

              Instead of preparing answers to every question you can think of, you focus on, for example, a big presentation that went really well. Don’t try and memorize a narrative, but instead go over the event and the details and pay special attention to which qualities and skills you displayed. Do this for a few big things (I think the course called these your “tent poles”.

              Then in your notes, if you need them, you can just have the “titles” of the events and a list of what they provide examples of. So when the interviewer asks “Tell us about a time you had to sell a colleague on an idea” you’re just picking an example from the list. And since you’ve been taking the time to refresh your memory on how the events played out, you should be able focus more on wording your answer on-the-fly, and less on trying to recall exact details. This also leaves you better prepared for questions you didn’t expect.

        8. Robin Ellacott*

          Some great suggestions on how to ditch the notes. But if you really can’t, I think your best bet is to be clear in the interview about the fact that this isn’t an issue at all in your work; you’ve never needed to scroll through pages of notes to do work tasks.

          I think the main worry an employer would have when they see the notes is that you would over-function or freeze when trying to do the job. If you can show a demonstrated history of that not being the case, and make it clear that interviews are their own beast for you, they might not dwell on it. Many interviewers (including me) are very sympathetic to people who struggle in interviews, as long as it doesn’t seem to mean they would struggle with doing anything remotely stressful at work.

        9. aubrey*

          Definitely need to get the notes down to a 1 or max 2 pager. Maybe organizing them in a bit more of a mind-map would help you? Like by common theme or situation you will reference for the behavioural questions.

          Personally, I have several situations that I reference for behavioural questions and note them like “lead llama reorg project: difficult people, client conflicts, scheduling and project management”. I call to mind the situation and depending on the exact question, I talk about different parts of it.

          As for the mental side of it – you say you’re fine with meetings and presentations. Can you tap into that a bit? Like mentally imagine you’re going into a meeting where you are a key subject matter expert, not OMG INTERVIEW. It sounds like you might be focused too much on getting the answers exactly right. An interview can be like being asked about topics that you have expertise in (your own work history). Easier said than done, I know. But maybe changing the framing from Being Judged to Discussing/Presenting a Topic could help?

        10. Ormond Sackler*

          Could you make a “key word outline” with the points you want to hit outlined very briefly? Maybe try to figure out which 20% of your notes are the most important, and strip those down to their key elements. Easier said than done I know, but 12 pages of notes is way too much.

          One thing that worked for me was finding something to hold during interviews or calls. Maybe find some crystal or something that is supposed to be good for stress and keep that in your hands during interviews–take advantage of the placebo effect.

        11. Snoozing not schmoozing*

          One trick I’ve used successfully in interviews is to lean slightly forward when the other person I’d t a liking, then slightly back when I talk. It makes me look interested in what they’re saying, and relaxed and at ease when I’m talking. When I decided to try this technique, the person interviewing me was my prospective grand-boss, and he only reluctantly agreed to interview me (it was for an internal position). My potentially immediate boss was also in the interview, and after, when we left the room together, he said, “That was the best damn interview I’ve ever witnessed!” I got the job. I have no idea if my slight movement trick was part of the success, but it wouldn’t hurt to try it.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Keep doing the practice interviews.

      Record yourself talking, just answer common questions. Watch the tape. Do you make eye contact with the camera, are you talking too fast/slow, do you say um a lot. Toastmasters and other groups like improv can help improv public speaking.

      Personal hygiene – clean and neat (deodorant, breath mint, haircut). Clothes that fit and don’t have any stains or holes if possible. First impressions matter. Practice your handshake with a friend.

      Other advice – make sure you’re applying to jobs that fit. It’s tempting to throw as many resumes to the wind as possible, but often if you’re not a good fit you’re just wasting your time. Even with an interview (maybe they’re giving a chance to see if you have experience in XYZ that just wasn’t on your resume).

    4. Sherm*

      Did people at the professional org give useful, thoughtful feedback? Have you tried out their suggestions? If they pretty much said “fine,” I would practice in front of a friend or former colleague who is known to be a tough critic.

      I would also ask people to review your resume. I’m guessing that it’s at least pretty good, since you’re getting interviews, but if it can be made stellar, it may overcome an interviewing weakness.

      Is there any chance that a reference is not giving a good reference for you?

      1. Unemployable?*

        Yes, they gave really good feedback. I scheduled one mock interview immediately before a real one and felt like the real one was one of the best ever. Haven’t heard back from them (it’s been about 45 days).

        The professional org also does resume/cover letter review and they thought it looked really good. I also had a session to explore other job areas I could look into aside from what my career has been.

        I’m not sure anyone has gotten to the reference portion yet.

        1. Me ... Just Me*

          Since you’ve not been doing well with standard interview setups with questions and answers, can you instead formulate a “presentation” that might cover most, if not all of the questions that you think will come up in the discussion and just go into “presentation mode” when the first question is asked? Usually, the first question is a sort of ice breaker, anyway – Tell us about yourself or What interests you about this position? — that sort of thing. Then, just launch into your spiel and keep going. Heck, provide handouts, if you think it might be helpful. Be conversational. Ask for feedback. Don’t let it drag down into the rote question/answer format. I don’t have anxiety, but find that my skills at presenting are best showcased with this approach – so I often approach interviews this way. “As you can see by my resume and cover letter (look around, does everyone have a legible copy, if not, distribute), I have a background in …. then segue into the difficult person/project question, the career goals question, your work style, etc. Try to gear your presentation to this particular role at this particular company.

    5. Cj*

      I found that I do a lot better in interviews if I just view it as a back and forth conversation. It makes me much less nervous, often get the job.

      How did the practice interviews go? Did they have any suggestions for you?

      1. Unemployable?*

        Yes, they did. Things I tried to incorporate. Advice on how to answer questions when I don’t have experience in that area or what some questions even mean.

      2. Siege*

        I started framing interviews as business meetings, and it did a world of good. The perception of power dynamics makes an interview difficult, but viewing it as a conversation where we both try to figure out whether we want to keep doing business together has helped.

        I also spent enough time (mostly in interviews, lol) giving answers to common questions that I got very practiced at them, but I’ve never used notes. But it does make a difference in terms of how it feels if you’re just reeling off the answer to “tell me a little bit about yourself” rather than searching through a list of questions and reading the answer. Reading is usually really stiff and obvious, too.

    6. Prospect Gone Bad*

      We don’t know anything about you so it’s hard to say. However, one thing that helped me was answering conversations either via writing or just aloud, at home alone. Then I filtered out all of the filters, negativity, and fillers, and qualifiers I was adding. I also trimmed down answers to be more direct.

      One thing I found for myself was that there were still red flags I was giving off that weren’t red flags. I worked at a dumpster fire underfunded branch of a fortune 500 and I did awesome work and was friends with all my coworkers. But interviewers only heard me framing the job as battling the incompetency of HQ. Which was true. But it took a lot of time to reframe my answers to sound far more positive. Believe me, it was hard, and it’s borderline lying to pretend I had a great job and it was so lovely. But it’s the same as saying “my ex is crazy,” your date has no clue if it was them or you.

      Another thing I will throw out there if you are entry level, is how younger people I sometimes interview think basic work competency is a skill. I don’t want to hear “organized,” “good writer,” “punctual” as your pluses. Those should be the basics. I am looking for something way more concrete.

      You also need to have some canned or prepped questions to ask them, so it isn’t just them grilling you.

    7. Unemployable?*

      So I tried out asking an interviewer for feedback after a rejection (and that was scary and felt like the wrong move after I did it!), and they just responded. They thought I interviewed well, had a great range of experience, it just came down to a very competitive pool, and I only lacked one specific type of experience. Sigh!! It’s nice to hear, but not helpful in actually getting a job. I dunno.

  25. Ellis Bell*

    Does anyone have any best practice ideas for doing annual reviews? I’m currently in a situation where I have to do my own performance review, as well as guiding a few team members on their reviews even though I don’t actually manage them. We’re in a school environment which means there’s no time for managers to manage because their entire day is taken up with teaching. I’m on a large team of 19, which is led by Boss: a teacher manager who is an expert in our department of special educational needs. Because it’s so large she has Assistant Boss, who is not a teacher but is well trained in our area, sees pupils for interventions and who basically does a lot of the admin and organization of the department as well as work distribution. She’s usually more available than Boss who is often teaching. Then there’s myself and a colleague who are higher level TAs: we are both trained teachers who do not teach classes, but take small groups out for intensive interventions in literacy (me) and numeracy (colleague). Not counting us, there are 15 TAs to do reviews for. Boss will see some, Assistant Boss will see some, myself and colleague will see the others. My review will involve meeting with our literacy lead who is a teacher adjacent to our department to set some of my goals. I then have to do the same for three TAs. Any advice?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Be specific and quantitative if you can. It’s so much easier to set and meet goals that have metrics, are measurable. There’s the SMART acronym for this (goals which are specific, measurable, assignable, realistic and time-related).

    2. ferrina*

      When writing reviews:
      -Bullet points. Makes it easier to read.
      -Highlight either skills or accomplishments. Each bullet will be a different skill/accomplishment. If you are highlighting skills, back up each skill with a couple examples of it (i.e., use accomplishments as evidence of skills).
      -Assume whoever is reading it has forgotten what you accomplished throughout the year. They’ve got a lot to keep track of and probably forgot half of what you did. Give them a quick recap in the write up.

      When reading reviews:
      -before looking at their review, take half an hour to reflect on what you’ve seen from them over the year. Take notes (yes, I do recommend a full half hour. Good reviews take time).
      -read their review. See what you forgot (you’ll have forgotten stuff too), and where you and they interpreted things differently.
      -When you add/reconcile differences, think about why you are choosing to add/reconcile things that way. Sometimes it’s easy (“They did a great job on that project and deserve to be recognized!”) and sometimes it’s complicated (“They’re saying this, but I remember it a different way. Could I be misremembering or not aware of something? Or are they misremembering or even misconstruing?”)

      Goals:
      -Start with big picture: What do you want to accomplish?
      -Get into details: echoing DisneyChannelThis, SMART goals are great for this
      -Double check how realistic it is: Look at what you did last year and what you’re hoping to do this year. How do they line up? Is it a reasonable continuation of progress? Or is it expecting too much? Remember if you meet your goals early, you can always add to them. But it’s harder to take away.

  26. J*

    The letter earlier this week from the person dealing with ADHD and related issues while trying to figure out a solid career path got me thinking about something I’d love to hear others’ thoughts on.

    Basically, I’m on the other end of this, as the manager of someone who is neurodivergent and has similar struggles with impulse control, professionalism, and organization/attention-to-detail. Unfortunately, the role they are in requires a high degree of professionalism (it is both internal and external customer-facing), organization, and attention-to-detail. This person is currently on a PIP as feedback, coaching, and encouragement to seek accommodations if needed has not improved the situation. This person is also unfortunately not as self-aware as the letter-writer is and has difficulty accepting feedback.

    I am aware of rejection-sensitive dysphoria, and I really would like to help my employee understand that this role is just not the right fit, but that isn’t a judgment of them _as a person_. Commentariat – any tips on how to convey that message effectively but kindly? Should I just accept that this person’s neurological makeup will make it impossible to guarantee the message will be received exactly how I’d like it to be?

    1. NoLongerDC*

      Hi! ADHD human here. Have you seen things that this person IS good at? While you have to accept that you won’t be able to control their emotional response, I’ve been in a similar spot as your employee when I was just starting out.

      I saw my leaving that job as a failure for me in the immediate term, but in the LONG-term and with processing, I was able to take away from that experience the things I was good at, especially those my boss made sure to mention.

      Set them up for the long-term, basically.

      2. afiendishthingy*

        AuDHD here and I totally agree. I’ve been managed out of a couple roles (given the choice to go on a PIP or plan on resigning within the next few months), it was very painful both times but also for the best. I think what I would have liked to hear is straight up that any given role not being a good fit for my strengths and weaknesses is not a failure, that I DO have strengths and give examples, and that I deserve to be in a role that capitalizes on my strengths and doesn’t highlight my weaknesses. (It feels like a miracle now because I ended up having to completely change career paths after 10 years, a masters degree, and expensive and difficult to obtain licenses & certifications, but I have found such a role. It’s not where I want to be forever, but it’s honestly been soooo healing to do work that I am GOOD AT and don’t feel like I’m constantly trying and failing to meet my own and my supervisors’ expectations)

    2. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      Tbh I have terrible anxiety and all you could probably do is give it to him straight. Not too much editorializing but ‘ When you called the VIP a inchworm we lost the account. Going forward….’

    3. Minimal Pear*

      Yeah, as someone who’s had pretty bad RSD in the past (I think? I might be getting better about it?), literally NOTHING you can do will 100% guarantee that they’ll take the message the way you’re hoping. I definitely recommend that you emphasize that this isn’t a judgement of them anyway, and if possible, give some specific and hard-to-argue-with examples of things they’re good at/that people have liked about them. It’s very possible they’ll react badly in the moment, but maybe if they’re working on it years later they’ll be able to remember those positive things as well, and it may help them argue themself out of their negative interpretation a little bit.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      Should I just accept that this person’s neurological makeup will make it impossible to guarantee the message will be received exactly how I’d like it to be?

      Yes, and not just for this person. There’s no way to guarantee anyone will take a message exactly how you’d like them to. I do think you are compassionate to try to think of a good way to frame this conversation. Perhaps try to emphasize how they are not a good fit for this role.

    5. ferrina*

      I’m also ADHD, history of cPTSD (which can also come with sensitivity), and for years was a caretaker for someone with low self esteem and extreme rejection sensitivity. So I’ve been on both sides of this.

      If you’re following Alison’s guidance on feedbacks and PIPs, you’re already doing everything you can. You regularly give feedback on both positive and negative, your feedback is timely and specific, and you review the big picture patterns regularly (annually or quarterly, depending on the role). You are transparent and consistent about your policies, you welcome questions and feedback and you are taking steps to ensure that you have consistent standards for each member of the team (not equal, because no two team members/situations are equal, but consistent). You take steps to proactively advocate for your team and get them what they needs; your team trusts generally trusts you.

      You will never be able to guarantee that a message will be received exactly how you intend. This is regardless of psychological make-up; this is the basic premise of communication. If we could guarantee that, there would never be any miscommunications!

      So yeah, hold yourself to high standards, communicate in a way that Alison and your boss would be proud, and let this person react how they will.

    6. Qwerty*

      Short term it is going to suck no matter what. So the hope is that you leave them with something that sticks in their head after the sting goes away.

      Focus on translating work requirements to skills and tell them what they are good at. “Sally, you are good at X and Y like when we encounter Z. However this role also requires strong A and B which is why C has been a struggle. Right now, let’s focus on ….[next step form improvement]”

      I once took someone’s job description and translated each bullet point to the skill(s) that goes with it. It became easier for him to see where to improve because there was common thread that almost every item he was underperforming required the same skill. Not sure if it’ll help your particular employee, but helping people correlate how skills affect multiple areas of job performance has helped some of my struggling employees either improve or realize they need to go in a different direction.

    7. urguncle*

      It sucks that both you and your employee are in this position and I have also been here. At the end of the day, it was a blessing for me to have gotten let go from the position because I hated the work and it made me really believe that there could be a “bad fit” when it came to a job and a company.
      What could have probably helped was a manager who was willing to go over the stuff that was giving me problems before I got in trouble for it. Emails that don’t have the right tone can be proofed by you before being sent out. Availability for you to get on external calls and give immediate feedback on what went well/less well on calls.
      Also saying things like “you’re really good with llama grooming requirements. Have you ever considered writing grooming documentation?”

    8. The Person from the Resume*

      I don’t know that “rejection-sensitive dysphoria” is that different than simple human nature. Is there any human that welcomes rejection or welcomes being told they are not good at something they are trying to good at?

      That said focus on skills and actions. Not – you are unprofessional, but that action you took/email you sent looks unprofessional because (it was full of typos). With a record and history of this you should be able to tell them they aren’t the right fit for this job.

      But you can’t control how they will react to being fired and you can’t guarantee during such an emotional time they will hear exactly what you’re trying to convey. You can’t guarantee they will ever think you were kind when you fired them. But it’s a kindness to their coworkers to remove employees that cannot perform adequately.

      1. afiendishthingy*

        it is different from simple human nature :) AuDHD here, it’s real, please don’t invalidate if you don’t know an awful lot about neurodivergence

      2. ferrina*

        Yep, it’s different, sort of like ADHD is different from “no one likes to do homework”. One characteristic about rejection-sensitive dysmorphia is that anything remotely negative can be interpreted as rejection. I lived with a covert narcissist who saw a great example of this- something as simple as him asking “I was going to get some ice cream, do you want some?” could become a trap. Even saying “No, I don’t feel like ice cream right now, but enjoy!” would be interpreted as a criticism of his decision making. It was exhausting.

        That said, ADHD doesn’t intrinsically come with rejection-sensitive dysmorphia. Often ADHD folks will be more sensitive to criticism because they’ve been criticized more in their life than their neurotypical peers (there’s been studies on this), but even this isn’t a guarantee (I’m ADHD, and I’ve been told that I’m extremely easy to bring negative feedback to). Sensitivity is different than dysmorphia. J, I caution you against diagnosing your direct report. Even if you were right, you are not their therapist. Focus on being a great manager, and let your direct report manage their own health/mental health.

    9. Nesprin*

      I think you’re overestimating how well most neurotypical people do with negative feedback. No one likes being told that they’re on their way to being fired and I think if you do your best to be kind but straightforward that’s all that you can do.

      There is no special magic word to make someone okay with being fired, nor is there any special ADHD handshake to say that this is not the position for you.

    10. teaandcookies*

      I have ADHD and I think there are some great answers here! In a previous job that I really wasn’t a good fit for, it took a very long time for anyone to give me any feedback and when I did get it, I felt pretty blindsided. If I had been told earlier, it might have been hard to hear in the moment, but it would have helped me move on sooner and also wouldn’t have left me worrying that I couldn’t trust positive feedback. In the end, even though it wasn’t handled well by anyone involved (myself included), I’m still really grateful it happened. The truth is a gift and so is being willing to take on the emotional work of giving someone hard feedback that they need to hear. So I’m going to say that even if you don’t handle it perfectly, you’re still doing something good for that person and your organization.

      My life has gotten so much better since my diagnosis, and I can look back now and see many ways in which the pressure to be a certain way (that was not the way my brain worked) led to denial of the problem and defensiveness against feedback. Which in turn caused problems for others I was working with. I have both frustration with and a huge amount of empathy for other neurodivergent folks who don’t seem “self aware” or are unwilling to say there is an issue. It is such an awful thing to be told your whole life that the problem isn’t real and you’re just not trying hard enough, to the point where you internalize it and it warps your whole world view. You learn that your results/output are a direct sign of your laziness and other moral flaws, so much so that you turn your life into proving your results /are/ good because if they are not, you must be irredeemably bad. Or at least that’s how it felt like to me.

    11. Mill Miker*

      This is definitely coloured by my own experiences with receiving praise and criticism (as someone with ADHD), but here’s what I find lets me mentally sort this kind of thing into the “bad news/constructive criticism” bucket instead of the “more ammo for that little voice that says your lazy garbage” bucket:

      Focus on qualities of the outputs, not perceptions of the inputs. One “fun” thing with ADHD is that hyperfocus can lead to incredible results with very little effort, but when somethings not going well, it takes so much effort to just keep going at it. Being criticized for “not trying” on something that took a ton of effort stings, but getting a ton of praise for “working so hard” on something that felt fairly effortless doesn’t feel great either. Even worse is getting criticized of a lack of effort when the end result is still good. Probably best to avoid commenting on how hard they tired, unless they’re saying they tried hard, and you want to say something like “I appreciate the effort, but the role requires more organization than I’m seeing”

      Along that line passive language is your friend. I know that’s normally counter to the regular advice, but if you’re really going for the role not being the right fit, then talking about what the role requires will go over a lot better than giving your employee another reminder of what things they’re still not good enough at. Someone who’s heard “You’re not organized enough” a thousand times, they’re not going to hear the difference in “You’re not organized enough for this role.”

      Be specific and straightforward. If you try to soften the blow by being vague about what the problem is, they’ll likely notice, and just assume the problem is everything that’s in the middle of the “Relevant to the role” and “insecurities” Venn diagram. At the same time, they’re probably playing mental autocomplete with whatever you’re saying. They’re on a PIP, they (hopefully?) know it’s not been going great… if you start the meeting off with a somber tone, they’re going to be thinking “I’m fired. I get it. I’m fired. Just say it. Say it so I can stop trying not to react.” I mean, you know your employee better than I do, but for me, I’d say clear the air. Let them react to the bad news without bottling it up first. If it’s more of a last warning thing, be clear about that. “Let’s get right too it: I’m not seeing the results I want from your PIP, so this meeting is to work out our next steps”. (or “explain next steps” if they’re not up for debate. “discuss next steps” is too ambiguous).

      Give them a minute. Part of ADHD is poor emotional regulation. The emotions come hard and fast. If they freeze up at the news, and if you’re comfortable with it, you might offer to let them leave for 5 minutes. If it’s a virtual meeting, at least let them turn off their camera. For me, being able to take a few minutes and make a face and wave my arms around really frees up the brainpower that was going into not doing that for more emotional processing.

      Again, this is what I find works better for me. Treat them like an adult, assume they can intellectually handle criticism, and try to be wary that it’s probably an emotional minefield anyway.

      1. AABBCC123*

        Hey just curious. I am also ND (Autism specturm) and was just wondering if you had an example of somethings you would say, because some of the points seem hard to mesh (i.e. use passive langauge but be specific and straightforward). I’m also a new supervisor and conversations like this may be part of my day to day.

        1. Mill Miker*

          I’m talking passive in the grammatical sense, which I do admit can veer into passive-aggressive territory if you’re not careful. I don’t think its worth trying to contort every sentence into passive form, but even “One of the targets of your PIP was to be on time every day this month, and I’m not seeing that level of improvement” stings a bit less than “You’re still late all the time.” or “Your goal was to be on time 29 out of the last 30 work days, and you managed 24” can work if the last bit is said matter-of-fact enough.

          It’s a balance between naming the problem, and not joining the chorus of people who’ve tried to shame your employee into better behaviour. They’ve probably heard “Your not professional enough” “Your time management sucks” “You need to take this seriously” and “I don’t think you understand the problem” thousands of times, from people hoping that they’ll finally make your employee feel guilty enough that they’ll actually change their behaviour.

          Although, honestly, if you can just avoid any variation on “It’s like you’re not even trying”, you’ll be way ahead of the game.

  27. Luna123*

    Decided to go back to college and get an accounting degree. I got accepted to my university, got super stoked about quiting my low-paying job in the fall … and discovered this week that my boss gave me a $2+ raise.

    Now weirdly I feel a little bad about leaving to go back to school. But logically I need the four-year degree to have A Career and my transfer credits from community college are only good for so long, so now’s the perfect time to go back to school.

    2. ferrina*

      You’re not weird, you’re totally normal! It’s normal that you are leaving the job to pursue your career. It’s normal that this happened at an awkward time (I suspect it’s more normal to leave at an awkward time than at a convenient time), and it’s normal that you feel a bit bad that your boss (possibly) spent political capital to get you raise and you’re about to leave. But this is all totally normal, and no one can help the timing of how these things fall. And certainly no one expects you to change your life plans because your boss spent a bit of political capital (at least, no reasonable person would expect that)

      Congrats on your acceptance!

      1. Luna123*

        At least I’m certain she didn’t spend a lot of political capital :)
        She probably just looked at the now-hiring signs at the grocery store and went “hmm we need to up our COL raises”

      2. Lyudie*

        Seconding all of this, and it’s not like you’re leaving immediately after the raise even. Rest assured you have done nothing wrong, and congratulations!!

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      If you weren’t lobbying for the raise, just take it as the otherwise sensible thing that your employer did on behalf of employees that are not paid enough.

      If in the Fall you’re not available to work, then they’ll find someone else to work for them at that rate. Not your concern, and many things could change before September (and you’ll want that extra cash on hand either way.).

    4. Peanut Hamper*

      Is that $2 an hour? That’s $80 a week.

      To put this in perspective, I think you’ll get a much bigger “raise” than $80 a week once you finish your degree.

    5. RagingADHD*

      Were you going back to school just to get $2 more an hour? Because if so, that was a bad decision.

      If not, don’t feel guilty for not selling your future at a discount rate.

  28. Jessica Ganschen*

    I have an internal interview scheduled for Monday! I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t wildly nervous, but I’m going through every relevant looking AAM and doing my best. One of the things that’s really tripping me up, however, is that the position that I’m interviewing for is the exact one I’m occupying right now, except permanent. I’m not sure what questions to ask when I know exactly what the day-to-day is like, what challenges we face, and the “previous person” in the position is just… me.

    Also, I’m unbelievably grateful that they listed the salary range in the job posting, because it is literally just shy of twice to three times my current salary. I thought that I would be lucky to get a 50% raise, let alone 100%. I never would have had the guts to ask for all that. This is life-changing money for me, if I get the position. There are two other candidates (my co-worker on the same team and an unknown, also internal), but my manager really wants to hire both of us and is going to keep pushing no matter which one of us gets this position.

    1. ferrina*

      Good luck!

      In an internal interviews, make sure you do due diligence to understand the role (it’s not unusual that responsibilities/expectations shift slightly based on teams or projects). You can also ask about the long-term vision for this role- what are the KPIs? Is there anything that might impact how this role operates? Are there any nice-to-haves that your boss would want you to expand into in 1-3 years?

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Well, it means you definitely have a good basis for asking something about “Do you have any concerns about how I might fit into this role that I could address for you?” or “Are you looking for this role to be performed differently on a permanent basis than how it’s being done now?” or “Do you anticipate changing the expectations for this role in the 6-12 months/few years?”

      It’s amazing that your boss is pulling for you! Best of luck!

      1. Pocket Mouse*

        Instead of “Do you have any concerns”, I’d word it as “Since you’re already familiar with how I approach my work, what are the areas of this role that you see I might find challenging, and what are the areas you think play to my strengths?” This opens up opportunity for you to share the same – talk yourself up and also get a sense of the support that will be available to you where you need it.

    3. linger*

      With internal interviews it’s very easy to fall into the trap of assuming that of course the interviewers know your history in the role — which may not be equally true for all the interviewers, and in any case you still need to present an explicit case for them hiring you, supported by specifics of tasks you have successfully completed. Prepare as if it were an external interview. Good luck!

      1. linger*

        (Where you do have an advantage as an internal interviewee is that you can — as one small part of the argument supporting your fit for the role — demonstrate details of your familiarity with the role, and more generally with your org’s values, priorities, and processes.)

  29. NoLongerDC*

    It’s been awhile since I’ve been here, but I’m in a weird limbo and trying to make a decision:

    I’ve been at a job part-time for just over a year. Since July, they’ve been saying they want to make me full time, but keep moving back the “when we’ll have a decision” date.

    Meanwhile, I’ve been having a lot of success signing contracts elsewhere, and it’s gained the attention of an org in an industry I really like. They reached out, we chatted, and they want to make an offer but haven’t made one officially with any number. It’s only been a week or so.

    I ADORE my boss at PTjob. She’s been fighting for me forever, and I do want to stay here. It’s in office every day, though, and will not pay as well.

    I like the person who will be my boss at potentialJob, a friend I trust who contracted with her LOVES her, but the CEO of the company has dicey reviews on glassdoor. It would be fulltime remote, and very likely pay more.

    If the potentialJob officially offers, I’m torn. I’ve been only parttime employed since COVID, and my wife and I are just barely surviving paycheck to paycheck. But I don’t want to burn the bridges at the PTjob.

    1. Luna123*

      I think its totally normal to tell your boss, “hey, I appreciate all that you’ve done, but a full time job dropped in my lap, and I’ve decided to accept it.” People move on from jobs all of the time, I’m sure even moreso if they’re just part time.

      As for the CEO, it probably depends on how big the organization is. If it’s a huge company, their decisions might not affect your day-to-day job too much (… maybe).

    2. ferrina*

      You probably won’t burn any bridges at PT job, and if you do, it’s because those people weren’t reasonable to begin with. You’ve been clear that you’d like your role to be FT. They’ve had a reasonable chance to grant that. You’ve been more than generous.

      It’s very normal and reasonable to move to a different job because it’s full time! Any reasonable employer/manager will understand that.

    3. Not my real name*

      Part time job has had plenty of opportunity to hire you, and you have to do what’s best for you. Take the new job if it comes through and leave without guilt.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        This! And maybe PTJob can give you a few hours as a side gig (if you have the time/energy) to help out your financial situation?

    4. Ranon*

      Take the full time job, your PT boss if they are a good boss will be furious at their org for not making it possible to keep you but not mad at you for making a reasonable decision

      1. Gracely*

        This. The couple of times I’ve seen us lose a good part-time person because higher ups wouldn’t let us make them full time never hurt my (or anyone else’s) opinion of the part-time person. It made me sad for my org, but glad for them to find a better spot. You have to take care of you.

    5. Combinatorialist*

      I agree with the others that you shouldn’t burn bridges but if you really want a last ditch effort when you get the offer from potentialJob you can ask for a week to review it and then tell PTjob, “I have a FT job offer somewhere else. I would prefer to be FT here but I would need an offer of at least X salary by the end of this week in order to stay. Would that be possible?” But I also think they have had plenty of opportunity to hire you FT and like the Kylie Morgan song “if they wanted to, they would”

    6. NoLongerDC*

      Thank you, everyone. I think internally I knew this was the answer, but I needed to make sure I wasn’t just making an impulsive decision.

      I suspect my manager will fall on the “consequences of the orgs own actions” side of things, if it comes to that.

    7. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Take the new job. Maybe your current boss has been fighting for you forever, but ultimately that hasn’t been effective since nothing has changed, and to be honest I think you are being strung along by the promise of them making a decision some time in the future. (Also don’t fall for it if a decision suddenly materialises when you quit. Continue with the new job!)

      Not sure what to make of “dicey” reviews of the ceo but I presume you won’t be working with them closely, or at all.

    8. NoLongerDC*

      Update:

      I got an offer letter for the PotentialJob today! I asked for an increase (I’ve learned from here never to take the first thing without negotiating!) but I also know I’ll be taking it regardless.

      There is one project that I am attached to at the PTjob that I’ll be offering to take on on a contract basis, and I’m hopeful they’ll agree to that! Thank you for that suggestion.

      Thank you all for the reassurances- I think I needed some external validation, and I appreciate it.

  30. Frankie*

    I just sent out my first job application in maybe 8 years kind of spur of the moment? I received a series of emails from a distant colleague who found a blurb about one of my team’s projects and did the following moves: “help me understand why my team wasn’t included in this effort based on this vague wording”; “help me understand the value of this project (a.k.a. this project obviously has no value)”; “I don’t agree with this project’s logic and I’m going to repeatedly tell you it’s redundant”; “I don’t think this would be valuable to spend time on so I’m deciding it doesn’t apply to my team”. It already does not apply to you!

    How self-absorbed do you have to be to read a 3-sentence blurb about a minor project, get simultaneously upset that you weren’t included in it AND that you don’t see the value proposition, and then send multiple emails to someone you barely work with to make sure they know you think their project is useless or redundant?? I barely know this guy and have never worked directly with him once. What is the point of these emails?

    For some reason this really got to me. So I found a random job and applied to it. It’s not one I think I have any kind of realistic shot at, but for some reason made me feel empowered. I might send out more.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      for some reason made me feel empowered

      It’s so easy to feel powerless: my coworker is annoying, I can’t change them, guess I just have to suffer until they get a new job/retire. Applying for jobs is a great reminder that you do have a choice! Looking can lead to a new job, but it can also lead to feeling better about the job you do have (both because you feel more in control of your professional life and because sometimes, you’ll appreciate things that your current job has that the offers you receive don’t).

      2. Lily Rowan*

        I once had a job that was really into the book Who Moved My Cheese, and I’m not sure what they wanted us to take from it, but what we all did take from it is this: Stop letting change happen to you, and manage your own change. So when they re-orged for the Nth time, everyone started applying for jobs elsewhere!

    2. jane's nemesis*

      I used to apply to a job – no matter my suitability for it – every time my manager did something stupid or bat-nuts or rage-inducing, just as private revenge. It really helped my mental health, and then I got a great job and got to leave her!

      1. Frankie*

        Yeah, maybe something will come of it, maybe not! Honestly, I’ve been here so long it’s something I should be doing anyway just to be staying fresh and thinking about my current work in terms of future hireability.

    3. Unkempt Flatware*

      Rage applying feels so so good. If I were feeling froggy, I might respond to that guy with the same recap you sent us: So, you saw three lines about a project someone you barely know is managing, decided to email her to tell her her project sucks, and also that your department won’t be involved in project? So you’re now going to leave me alone to work on my sucky project?

      Make him hear this utter nonsense in all it’s absurd glory.

    4. Camelid coordinator*

      In my fantasy you’d reply to each email with the same answer but all at once one a time so his inbox has a little flood. Maybe “I’m glad to hear of your interest in this project, Jared. I look forward to collaborating on something related at some future point.”

      It is also fun to think of each email getting a one-word reply annoying colleague has to put together to make a complete sentence.

  31. Anongineer*

    I was hired at my position in a lateral move (better location) and recently interviewed for a promotion in my group that will be one of the last upward positions available for a while. Of course, surrounding this interview I was dealing with issues that wouldn’t be out of place in a sitcom. Just wanted to share here that I hope I get it and that the issues didn’t derail me too badly!

    2. ThankDogJanuaryisOVER*

      Good Luck! I started a new job on January 1st an I hear you about the issues – it’s been a shit show. Hopefully we will NOT live in interesting times for the balance of the year.

  32. Jen*

    I started in a government contractor position 2.5 years ago that was pitched to me as an subject-matter expert/program manager type position, but is essentially data entry. Essentially there are plenty of government employees to perform the substantive/interesting work, and I am left to do data entry that the work has been done and track its completion since I can’t perform inherently governmental functions, per the law.

    I’m not happy about what I feel like is a bait-and-switch, and since I’m staying in the same department (being hired to a new area as a government employee) I feel like I should say something to somebody. My government-employed boss, a teapot designer, casually told me about a year in that the position used to be a “teapot designer assistant” position, but the previous person in it went to Teapot Design School and refused to come back unless the job was coded at a higher level, so he made the case for it being a “teapot designer” position.

    I can see the case for it being a teapot design position because it requires an enormous amount of attention to detail and the ability to be a quick thinker and prioritize, which aren’t necessarily things teapot designer assistants are experts in, but I also feel like anyone who completed teapot designer school would be as bored as I am. So what should I say, if anything? I would assume it’d erode any goodwill that I have with him to essentially advocate that the position be downgraded, but it’s still going to affect me when I move into my new role in the same department if there are issues like high turnover (which they experienced before hiring me).

  33. Queenie*

    Advice or commiseration welcome! I’ve been job searching pretty heavily since September 2022, and I still haven’t found anything. I’ve only gotten past the first interview once, and the position was a bait and switch so I bowed out. I’m not really sure what I’m doing wrong, the interviews all seem to go really well, the interviewers seem happy and are smiling and laughing at the end and we usually have a great rapport. It’s been pretty disheartening, I’m really good at what I do but I’d like to work somewhere I’m appreciated and not micromanaged so heavily. Remote position websites highly appreciated!

    1. Luna123*

      I can commiserate! I’ve been searching intensely since April and have had a lot of internews, but haven’t hainternet, with offers.

      For me, I’m assuming it’s in part because I don’t have a bachelor’s degree (“bachelor’s or relevant experience” my butt), so I’m biting the bullet and going back to school in the fall.

      2. Queenie*

        I’m in the same boat, loads of experience and I’ve done certifications and quite a bit of schooling but theres not a bachelors degree. It’s super frustrating that even the positions that don’t require or ask for a degree I’m not getting. You got this!

        1. rayray*

          I’m also having a hard time, I do have a degree but it’s one that is usually considered useless or fluff. Even jobs that mention my specific degree or ones suuper closely related are turning me down.

  34. Our Mr Wilson*

    I received “not meeting expectations” in some areas in my annual review in November, and my boss told me I had until the end of January to improve or I would be put on a PIP. (He did give me details of what to do to improve). I have been improving but I don’t know if it’s enough.

    We have our bi-weekly 1:1 on Monday (supposed to be today and postponed this morning ). What can I do to prepare for possibly getting a PIP, both emotionally at the meeting and overall for keeping this job/getting a new job but not getting fired? I’ve been at this job for 4 years but it’s my first job out of college.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Remember that a PIP doesn’t define your self worth. You are still an awesome person. You are just struggling in meeting the goals they want from you.

      If on a PIP work to meet it but also start really seriously job hunting. It gives yourself more options than succeed or fail PIP. (Who knows you might get a higher offer for a job better suited to you).

      For the meeting itself, be honest. Here’s how I heard your last feedback, here’s what I have implemented to fix that, here’s how it is going. Try and treat it as a constructive meeting, everyone wants you to succeed work together (not a they hate me, me vs them). Be serious, don’t goof about it, but also again it’s not the end of the world, don’t let it make you feel like you are awful. (You can be awful at specific job task XYZ but you are not an awful person!)

    2. Onward*

      Prepare for the meeting by listing out all you have been doing to improve. Be specific about what changes you’ve made and the effects. Go back over each of those details he gave you to improve on and state exactly what changes you’ve made to meet those. You don’t have to necessarily present those to him, but it will help you frame your mind around what is working and what is not.

      In the meeting, if there is some kind of support from management that would be helpful (extra training in an area that you’re struggling on, etc.) ask for it. Make sure this is a discussion and not a lecture. As a manager, my goal is always to get someone back on track when I’m delivering a PIP, but sometimes it’s hard for the person receiving the PIP to see that our goals are actually aligned.

      I think it’s important to reflect, as well: you’ve been at this job for 4 years. Is this the first you’ve had performance issues? Or has this been a frequent problem for you? If it’s the former, what do you think caused this change in your performance? If it’s the latter, maybe this isn’t the right field for you? Is there anything else you’d like to pursue?

    3. Bess*

      Just being open goes a really long way here. Be specific about what you’ve been doing to improve and directly ask how that’s been going from your supervisor’s perspective. Be open and agreeable if there are still changes that need to happen; be ready to offer specific suggestions for further progress or ask your supervisor for specifics if you’re unsure how else you can improve.

      If you do get a PIP, all the above applies–be open, get specifics, explicitly affirm where you will change–and it’s not the end of the world. If you get stressed in the moment, you can say, “I’m sorry, I’m feeling stressed, I’ve been making a lot of effort into improving and it’s disappointing to hear I’m not meeting the mark.” And then proceed to the concrete discussion.

    4. Polly Hedron*

      Good suggestions above. We are pulling for you, so please update, here or in next week’s open thread: How did the 1:1 go? Were you put on the PIP?

    5. Lenore*

      Curious: were these a surprise to you? Because if you weren’t told about performance issues prior to your review, your boss sucks.

  35. Aaaaaa*

    Hi! I posted on here a couple of weeks ago about how to think about a potential job offer. Well, I got the offer, everything in my personal life went to shit (a lot of the reasons I was looking for a job became moot), and they want an answer as to whether I’ll accept on Monday. I’ve asked for more time, but I’m still in no state to make a decision.

    What’s bothering me is that I told my current boss about the offer, and he told me, in a very come-to-Jesus way, that accepting it would be a “serious professional mistake”. I generally trust his judgement, but he is biased (he doesn’t want to lose a good employee) and has an elitist streak (I doubt he’d think any company could compare to this one). I don’t think the new job is made of bees, based on my extensive talks with them and pointed questions. But I think my boss is right that overall my current job would be better for my skill development.

    If I moved, I’d be going from a generalist role to a specialist one, at one of the only firms in the country that does this specific type of specialist work. I also surmise my technical stills would not continue to grow at a blistering pace (but my people skills might).

    However. My mental health has been on a steady downward swing for about a year (for general-life-circumstance reasons… let’s just say I cry more days than not), and taking the job offer would allow me to start fresh in a place where I think I would be less sad (sleepy suburb to city, and I like living in cities). I’ve also internalized some toxic habits around my current job (for example, I panic when asking for feedback or time off, and emails from certain people make me anxious to the point of tears).

    I’m still very young (23). And my current job gives me stability and challenging work, that I feel like I’m finally getting good at, with good people who like me. Do I prioritize professional development, or take the leap to start somewhere new?

    1. WellRed*

      You’re involving your current job way too much in this decision. How does he know you won’t grow professionally in a new job? That’s often how people do grow, especially when so young. My concern is whether taking on a new job and in a new city will help or hurt your mental health.

    2. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I’d look at 2 key things: 1) is the move to the city environment going to be better for you in the long run, and 2) are you interested in the specialist work — and would specializing provide opportunities for advancement and development?

      The new job could also be stable and challenging with good people who like you. (And you can stay in touch with the best of the folks that are at your current job.)

      If you decide the current job is for you, I’d suggest that you consider some good therapy to disconnect from the toxic habits and anxiety. It’s not a great choice if you’re crying more days than not, no matter what it says on your resume.

      Nothing you do today will bind you forever. Perhaps the change of scenery and some specialist skills are just what you need and it will be something that will keep you usefully engaged for a good long time. Or maybe in 3-5-7 years you’ll assess your situation and decide you’d like to look for a generalist position again, which you can do without anyone else’s approval. Or you’ll do something that you never expected. who knows!?

    3. Lily Rowan*

      I think a new job in a new place will provide professional development no matter what. If nothing else, it will expose you to a different environment, different people, ways of doing things (that ideally will not make you cry!!!), etc.

      It doesn’t sound to me like your current job is such an amazing fit for you, and that’s the important thing — not what your boss or any other person thinks about the company or role.

    4. Morgan Proctor*

      Please stop talking to your boss about your job search. It’s none of his business, and honestly his reaction here tells me you’re making the right choice in leaving. Also, if you know you enjoy living in cities, then do it! I’m the same way, and living/working in a suburb had always been a nightmare for me.

    5. Kate*

      I say take the leap! This recent NYT column from the wonderful Roxane Gay really resonated with me: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/08/business/roxane-gay-work-advice-2023-resolutions.html. “Yes, you should quit your job. Yes, you should call out the overbearing colleague who steals your ideas and talks over everyone. Yes, you should go back to graduate school. Yes, you should make a drastic career change and pursue your passion. Of course you should make the risky, terrifying choices with absolutely no guarantee of success. But what we should do and what we can do are two different things.”

      So if you can, now is the time to go on adventures and try new things. You are young—you can make plenty of choices based on professional growth in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, not in your early 20s. (And if New Job doesn’t work out, you are more likely to find another job in an urban area, rather than the ‘burbs.)

    6. RagingADHD*

      When you are 23, there are very few choices you could possibly make that would be a “serious professional mistake” unless they are illegal or a serious breach of ethics. This is not one of them. I certainly hope your boss didn’t intend that as a threat that he will sabotage you, because that’s kind of what it sounds like.

      You are 100 percent allowed to make a decision just because you want to be happier. That is, in fact, a fantastic reason to make a move, and I hope it works out well for you.

    7. Workerbee*

      Picture to yourself, right now, how it will feel if you turn down the other job and stay right where you are.

      Did you feel dread, or joy?

      (Gut feelings can tell us so many things if we get out of our own way.)

  36. Genius with Food Additives*

    How do you diplomatically tell a coworker the way to improve the relationship is for them to actually do their job? I have a meeting coming up with a manager in a different department on how to improve the relationship with my dept (I am an individual contributor, not a manager).

    My department relies on this person to go find us what we need to do our part of the process and requires an amount of handholding that, frankly, I would expect of someone within their first 5 years of professional work. They never know what is going on, follow-ups from meetings take at least a second meeting before they actually happen, and they need my group to constantly say “we still need X” even though they could easily see what was missing if they actually went and looked. Hardest of all is that they seem to retain zero information. Making sure we get the information we need in a timely fashion to not impact customers is a resource drain at a time when we’re already short staffed (their group is not), so hearing them complain about how busy they are is an extra cherry of frustration on top.

    Their boss is aware of the problems, and I think has prompted these meetings. The problem manager has already had one with my boss, who is extremely aware of the issues. So I’m trying to figure out what to say that will expand on what he’s already been told in a way that might sink in.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Focus on measurable goals.

      We need X information in 3 days from the event for our reports. The last 4 reports we’ve not been getting X until 8 or 9 days after the event. Is this feasible from your end? If it’s not possible to get that information let’s brainstorm some options to do instead.

      We usually have to remind your department 3 or 4 times that we need something. How can we facilitate processing our requests, would a written email instead of verbally asking be better? What’s your normal turn around time, at what point should be follow up instead of assuming you’re working on it?

    2. by golly*

      Can you show from your end how you can see that they have not done their part? I’m thinking, like, you must have a database or checklist somewhere that shows what is needed, and you can say “when a project looks like this, with X box unchecked, that means we’re waiting on you.” Or, can you make a list of priorities “First, get all of the llama grooming appointments scheduled, Next when that’s done, we ask that you prioritize turtle shell cleanings over tool organization.” Or whatever.

    3. Me ... Just Me*

      I would start of by trying the “same page” technique – ask them what they discussed in the meeting with your manager (and anyone else they’ve met with on this) and what they perceive any issues to be, so that you can start “on the same page”, then reiterate any points that you feel need to be focused on and bring up any issues that they haven’t mentioned.

      I’ve done the “I wasn’t in the meeting you had with my boss, so can you just fill me in on what was discussed and any take-aways from that meeting, so that we can both start on the same page?”

  37. Minimal Pear*

    There’s a possibility my job could switch me from PT hourly to PT salaried, if I asked for it. I’m considering doing s0–I know that it can end up being exploitative (you can’t work under x hours but you can always work more!) but my workplace is pretty good about work-life balance. Plus I’m pretty good at sticking to that sort of boundary.
    The pros are that I could get a little flexibility in hours (I’m chronically ill and currently in a phase of treatment with LOTS of appointments) and I would be getting the same amount of money in each paycheck. I’ve also heard it would be easier on the admin side of things. Are there any cons I’m not thinking of besides the stuff mentioned above? Oh, and overtime isn’t a concern.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      Does the tax rate change at all?

      Losing overtime pay is the big one, but you’re not worried about that.

      Do your benefits change?

      Does salary mean different requirements (annual training, performance reviews etc) that would be annoying?

    2. Gracely*

      I got switched from salaried to hourly a few years ago, and I would go back to FT salaried in a heartbeat if I could. If your work has good work-life balance, salaried is great for more flexibility over a broader time frame.

      If there was a risk of overtime, my advice would be different, but you’re not worried about that.

  38. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

    I’m starting the process of “managing out” one of the people on my team, which means documenting All The Things that show he’s not up for the job. That part is fine – but how do I avoid confirmation bias? I’m doing my best to keep it to just facts – but the more I document, the more I see evidence that supports my position. And I’m worried it won’t be too long before I start writing things like “He wore a blue shirt today even though he KNOWS it’s my least favourite colour!”

    “Just the facts, ma’am” is easy enough to say, but not as easy to do in this situation. Any tips for keeping myself honest here?

    1. J*

      Oh boy, I am at the tail end of this.

      No guarantees this is all guaranteed to work, but here’s what I did:
      – Made clear for myself the specific issues/ongoing concerns that made the person a bad fit. “Misses deadlines frequently, work often needs to be redone” those sorts of objective facts that tie directly into job responsibilities. It can also be helpful to look at the JD and go through a “checklist” of key responsibilities.
      – Then ONLY looked for documentation that specifically backed up the above list. In my case, the person had a terrible attitude but I had never explicitly addressed it in writing, so I had to leave all of that out. Other irksome behavior gets left out this way too.
      – Talk to others and get their honest feedback (if possible) – they will not only give you examples you may need, but if someone other than you is pointing out the same problem, that will be helpful validation. Do NOT share your assessment, just hear theirs.

      FWIW, I also surprised myself by finding documentation / explicit feedback given way earlier than I thought I would – if this is what’s making you concerned, maybe try to think of it as just evidence you’ve been doing your best to address these issues.

      1. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

        Part of the problem is he wrote his own JD – so technically he’s meeting the requirements just fine, because he created them himself!

        I think what I really have to do is demonstrate that he’s not capable of doing the job *as it exists today,* regardless of what was put in place 10 years ago. It’s a bit of a challenge to untangle all this, that’s for sure.

        1. Ainsley Hayes*

          It would likely be worth it to write out what the job is as it exists today so that you have that clear in your mind as you go through the process. Been there – good luck!!

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Is there a listing of job responsibilities or assigned tasks somewhere that you can use as an objective metric? “Bob is supposed to be able to send external client messages, but has actually sent information to the wrong client 2/7 times this week.” Also be sure to refer to any code of conduct/employee manual – if Bob is sending out client messages but also being consistently rude to all his coworkers that’s not good either.

      1. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

        Not a ton of objective metrics in our profession, but the Code of Conduct is a good idea. Thank you!

    3. The Cat's Pajamas*

      In the abstract, what would minimum viable success in this position look like? (Not a rockstar, just… good enough.) That’s how I’d approach it, rather than starting with what the employee is doing and working from there. Have these expectations been communicated to the employee? How is this employee stacking up against that metric? Setting clear goals + communicating those clearly + recording actual data/outcomes seems as bias-free as you could get here.

      2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        And share that list with him.

        “Here are the minimum standards I need you to meet, consistently and going forward, in order to keep you in this role. I know this is a change, so I’m giving you (30 days or whatever is reasonable) to reach this point and then maintain that level.”

  39. Lady Lia*

    I find myself faced with the prospect of a job search due to an impending layoff. I’m currently in a department director-level position, for which I am grossly underpaid. I’ve worked in the same industry for more than 30 years, but mainly at small, family-owned businesses. Given my experience and position, I should be making twice what I am now, but I doubt anyone other than large corporations has the means to pay a proper salary. My question is this, how do I go about getting my foot in the door with a large corporation, especially at an advanced level? I seriously doubt the types of positions I’m seeking are posted on Indeed, and my professional network is tiny (not not tied in with the corporate world). I don’t have my heart set on working for a corporation, but I’m done with being grossly underpaid because I work for a mom and pop operation. Please advise.

    1. irene adler*

      Is there a professional organization that pertains to the industry you are in? If so, and they have a local chapter, reach out to them. They will have resources:
      – they know the job market
      -they will have people who know folks who work at these large corps
      -they can make introductions to folks who may be of help to you with the job search
      -they often have a network that knows who’s hiring
      -there may be recruiters (not in-house recruiters) who specialize in the industry. Folk in the professional organization will know who these are.
      -they can help with the resume- what to have on there that [company name] likes to see.

      All this doesn’t happen at once; you’ll want to be a ‘regular’ at their meetings. Make it a point to get to know those who run the events.

      Have you visited temp organizations that serve the industry you are in? Like exec level. They may be able to help with the job search. Yeah, I’ve seen director level jobs at these places (talking biotech here; YMMV).

      And you can go to the web sites of the large corporations and apply for the director level jobs. That gets your resume into their system.

    2. HR Friend*

      I don’t know your industry, but you can absolutely find job postings for Director positions on Indeed, LinkedIn. But you might have better luck with industry-specific job forums.

      And keep in mind that your title might not translate from small biz to large corporation. Meaning if you’re a VP at a mom and pop, you might be better off looking for Director position at a large corp. The scale of your job duties are a factor in your candidacy as much as the duties themselves. Good luck!

    3. Ranon*

      Third party recruiters can be useful in this situation- that’s how I made my jump from a small company to a big one in a totally different industry. Big companies are more likely to use them and they’ll have a useful perspective on how you might position yourself in the market. Don’t be afraid to talk to several to see if there’s one that’s a good fit for you.

  40. DonnaP*

    Hi, looking for some perspective!

    I’ve been working with a new recruiting agency. I accepted a job offer yesterday through them for a part time ongoing temp job. The recruiter I’m currently working with is insufferable, pushy, and belittling so I almost didn’t say yes to the job! I have yet to fill out paperwork and now only communicate with them over email because I can’t stand to talk with them.

    I just got a lead today for a better paying part time ongoing temp job from an agency I like and have worked with in the past. It’s potentially 7 more dollars an hour but I don’t even have an interview yet.

    I’m not sure how to balance the potential of this better job with a trusted agency versus the job I literally just accepted yesterday through some shmucks. I hate this new agency but understand they’d be an evil with an end date.

    Any perspective here? Anyone else been in this situation? Would I be able to stall and find out if this other opportunity works out? Is there potentially an issue if I start this other job and leave it immediately?

    1. Morgan Proctor*

      Start the job and quit if you get a better offer. There’s “potentially an issue” with literally any decision you could possibly make in life. Put yourself first and get that extra $7/hr.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Take the temp job now. Then if you get the other one, take it and leave the bad one.

      It’s *temp.* Turnover is built into the business model. You don’t owe them anything. There is zero long term commitment in either direction.

      And FWIW, when I was temping, if I told my agency that I just got a gig for $7 more an hour, they would say, “go get it!” If this place sucks as you describe, they probably won’t be like that, but that’s okay.

  41. Anonymous Educator*

    There’s a cliché that people leave managers, not companies, and I think that’s true for the most part.

    Has anyone done the opposite, though? You love your manager and your team, but the company larger culture (and leadership decisions) cause you to leave?

    1. J*

      Me right now. I had a terrible manager/department head for years, but the higher-ups intervened about a year ago and brought in someone I genuinely like working for. However, the fact that the poor management was overlooked for so long and larger culture issues mean that while I’m excited about the direction my department is now going in, I still don’t think it’s best for me to stay.

      I work in a very large org, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is more common there, as individual managers (particularly if they are not high in the org themselves) have limited ability to mitigate the impact of various policies, etc.

    2. by golly*

      Similar to J. I had a terrible manager, and eventually have been able to move to a better one, but the whole thing (everyone knows this manager is terrible, but he seems to have a knack for falling upward) has left a bad taste in my mouth, causing me to look elsewhere. Poor management at the leadership level can really sour employees on the work, no matter how great their team is. Being ‘us against the world’ isn’t sustainable forever.

    3. Cookies for Breakfast*

      That was me last year. I started job hunting to leave a manager I wasn’t clicking with, and when that manager got fired, I put the job search on hold because I reasoned some things might get better (I was given a big pay rise and promised a role that suited my skills better, and through all of that, really loved my team).

      Surprise surprise, none of these things made bearing the dysfunction at the heart of my department any easier. Within a few months, I was job hunting again, and this time, what I was leaving was a pattern of rash leadership decisions and constant changes of direction (including my new role, which they never bothered to help me set up for success) that I had little hopes would ever change.

    4. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

      I’ve never understood that cliche. Most of the time I leave jobs because I’ve outgrown them, and there’s no chance for promotion or lateral move within the organization.

      I left one job on impulse because I got distracted by a shiny new opportunity overseas. And another one because I never wanted to be there in the first place – I had been unemployed and needed income, so I went to the first place that would hire me and just kept looking until I found one I really wanted.

      I mean, I’ve had some bad managers during that time, but none of them were the sole reason I left the job. And at the same time, I don’t think I’ve ever stayed at a job specifically because of a manager – regardless of how great (or how terrible) they are, they’re almost always just one of many factors influencing my decision.

    5. shruggie*

      I left a job with a boss I simply adored because the job was being redesigned by higher-ups to offer me less responsibility and growth opportunities. It was already kind of an odd-ball role that didn’t prime me well for moving up in the industry, and eventually the negatives outweighed the huge positive of my boss. She was very understanding, and was generous in serving as a reference while I found my next step.

    6. Isben Takes Tea*

      I left a manager who was an excellent manager and a team that was incredibly supportive both because the role itself didn’t have much growth left and the company/industry was really discouraging and stifling. (“Here’s a pizza party because we beat budget by a million dollars! Also we have to lay off the support staff because we have no money.”)

    7. The Cat's Pajamas*

      Yup! Worked for a university, loved my team and liked the work, but couldn’t stomach the direction top leadership was headed or some gnawing existential qualms about both the institution and the industry. (I think my last straw was when the uni leadership doubled down on championing “academic freedom” as a loosey-goosey free-for-all that meant the uni would freely devote resources to misgendering students and platforming eugenicists.)

      I’d sort of jumped from the frying pan into the fire the last time I was job-hunting, and liking my team meant I felt okay enough day-to-day to stick around until I found the right match for a next job. When I finally gave notice, my manager and team were thrilled for me, and more than one person hinted that they were also headed elsewhere.

    8. Kristine*

      Yup, I left my last job before grad school because of this. I loved my manager and coworkers, but I didn’t feel valued by the larger company at all–we were grossly underpaid and other departments (HR, IT, etc) would take weeks to respond to respond to simple questions, or would never respond at all. If I hadn’t been going to grad school, I would have still been job-searching.

    9. Cyndi*

      That’s the reason I’m job hunting right now! My supervisor is great, but I need out because of leadership decisions from way abover her head.

      In fact my entire team is job hunting or already gone–we’re down three people and up only one shiny brand new hire–and I feel bad for her having to try and keep order in these conditions. But not bad enough to stick around for the nonsense we all know is coming down the pipe.

    10. WantonSeedStitch*

      I had two employees explain their choice to leave in almost exactly those terms: both of them assured me that they were happy with me as a manager, and that they appreciated everything I had done to try to make their experience at work better, but that things out of my control in our organization meant that they just couldn’t be happy working there. They knew I had done what I could to petition for change, but that I’d been unsuccessful.

    11. The New Wanderer*

      I would have left ASAP after being assigned to a terrible manager, but I was quickly granted reassignment to a much better manager so I stayed.

      I did leave the following year because of a different terrible manager who had authority over promotions and wasn’t ever going to give me any opportunities regardless of how successful I was.

      Both of those terrible managers actually left the company before I did (the first by their own choice, the second when they were unable to get promoted themselves). The company has been continuously hiring for the role that I used to have, but I’m not tempted to go back because ultimately the environment and culture doesn’t suit me.

    12. newspaper holdout*

      More of a niche industry, in the sense that standard corporate norms, etc., don’t often apply, but I think this is relatively common in journalism — I love my direct editor, and would follow them to the ends of the earth, but the top editors are largely incompetent and the overall company that owns my newspaper is a disaster. If/when I leave, it will be because of them, not because of the people I work closely with.

    13. Tired of Working*

      I left a company where I had worked for over eleven years and where I loved my manager and team. I left because TPTB changed the way in which they decided who was entitled to get a raise. My manager told me that they decided that there would be a committee that would meet and decide which employees (there were about 85 of us) would get a raise and which employees would not. Unfortunately, my manager told me that all of the members of the committee were never in the office at the same time, so the committee was never able to meet. I expressed my displeasure, and my manager said that there wasn’t anything he could do about it.

      We were never told who was on this committee. Ostensibly it was to protect their privacy, but I suspect it was so that we couldn’t say, “What do you mean, the committee can’t meet? All of its members were here every day last week.” Since we had no idea who was on this committee, we had to take TPTB’s word for it that there wasn’t even one single day that all of them were in the office.

      I agonized for six weeks over what to do. Everyone I spoke to told me that it was up to me, except for one person who told me to quit, or else the company would lose respect for me. During those six weeks, I was so excited whenever my manager called me into his office. I was certain that he was going to tell me that the committee met, and I was going to get a raise. But it never happened. It took me several weeks of looking before I was offered a job at another company. The committee didn’t meet during those weeks either.

      When I gave two weeks notice, I said that I was tired of waiting for the committee to meet. The office manager guaranteed that the committee would meet before the end of the year. (This was at the end of July many years ago.) I said that I didn’t want to wait.

      I eventually found out on December 30 that the committee hadn’t met yet. I said that maybe they would meet the following day, because the office manager had guaranteed it. It didn’t happen. I eventually found out the following March that the committee still hadn’t met yet, and no one had any idea who was on the committee.

      So it does happen that people leave companies, not managers.

    14. Ex-MIC Worker*

      Yes, I worked in government R&D and eventually I found that the cognitive dissonance between my personal values/morals and the fact that the company did mostly Dept of Defense work for the military became too much to bear, so I quit. My manager, team, and coworkers were delightful on an individual level but I couldn’t stomach the fact that my work was essentially being used by the C-suite as a money laundering scheme to get government funding out of the bloated military budget.

  42. handfulofbees*

    Looking at Glassdoor, and they have this thing where they want you to leave a review before you can look at other reviews. I don’t want to leave a review, for numerous reasons. Is there any way to get around this?

    1. Whomst*

      Not without some significant hacking skills. It works this way to make the reviews more representative and mitigate some sampling bias. You can always lie if you’re really uncomfortable with it.

      1. The Girl in the Red Sweater*

        I wouldn’t recommend lying, since other people will be using that data! It’s a community-data-based project, so if no one left ratings, it wouldn’t be useable! And you don’t want people just leaving ratings if they had a really bad or really good experience at their work. If you don’t want to leave any information, then don’t use Glassdoor. Otherwise, you can just leave ratings along with your general job description and if need be, a very short response about the overall work environment.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      You can review a entry level spot at McDonalds or similar type place with a lot of seasonal workers. No one will know, and that won’t hurt that company (no one is reading glassdoor for deciding to take cashier job at McDonalds)

    3. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

      I would just leave a super generic review. Give 3-4 stars, and put a comment like “everything was fine.” That should get you in the door without impacting the company’s overall rating – and without identifying yourself, which I assume is a bigger concern!

    4. rayray*

      Would you be able to get past it by reviewing a company you interviewed with at some time? You may also be able to leave a review of the benefits package, so you could just do something like “Offers 15 days PTO, Holidays, and health insurance”

      I see super vague benefits reviews all the time like that, it goes under the Benefits section not the regular company review section.

    5. The Prettiest Curse*

      When I was posting about Glassdoor last week, someone replied that there’s a fake company called Nunya Biz that you can review. Go forth and write your fake review with a clear conscience.

    6. EMP*

      I left a review that was broadly true but smudged the details a bit (e.g. said I’d worked there for 3 years when it was 4, rounded my salary to a round number, used my first, more generic title and not what I was promoted to) in the hopes of being less identifiable. I always feel like it is way too easy to someone from a small department to be identified in an “anonymous” review if they don’t take these precautions but I hope it’s “close enough” to help others.

    7. Morgan Proctor*

      I got around this by inventing a fake company and leaving a review. If you don’t want to do that, I believe you can see a certain number of reviews when your account is brand new. Use a website like temp – mail dot org to generate a fake email address, and use it to create a new account.

    8. Girasol*

      That must explain why so many workers at Former Company leave reviews that say, “Pro: Nothing I can think of. Con: Nothing I can think of.” so often.

    10. Slowpoke*

      Could you use a friend’s account, assuming you have one who’d be willing to review their own company? My friend and I did this, although it requires the friend to confirm a text upon logging in, so it’s a bit tricky.

    12. J*

      Incognito mode. Sometimes you’ll have to open a new incognito window for every link but I’ve been very successful at viewing my company’s online hate reviews and finding out just how accurate they are (very) through this method of snooping. I keep one incognito window open, when bounced from that I put the URL into my regular browser and click in deeper and when bounced from that a new incognito and so on until I get the results I want.

  43. Tea Jay*

    I’m applying for a broadcast production position (journalism, entry level) and they want my salary expectations when applying. I’m doing the research – I don’t want to low-ball myself, but this position seems pretty darn good and I don’t want to take myself out of the running.
    …Anyone willing to help with a ballpark salary?
    And what should I think of a position that wants this info right in the application?

    1. kiwiii*

      I’m in an industry that posts salary bands as a standard practice, so I can’t help with the first part.

      But I do know it’s not out of the norm that a position wants that information right on the application — lots of places ask so they don’t have someone way over what they’re planning in the candidate pool.

    2. rayray*

      Maybe check glassdoor and see if there are any reported salaries for the position, and maybe adjust slightly depending on how long ago it was reported, there should be a date.

    3. Name (Required)*

      I always put “negotiable” when they ask for it up front. Or all zeroes if it requires a number.

    4. RagingADHD*

      Different line of work, but I’d say about 40-50 percent of places I’ve applied to recently ask for salary expectations in the application process. They weren’t all terrible companies. They just weren’t keeping up with the times.

  44. stelmselms*

    What kinds of jobs do you all have (outside of fundraising) where you aren’t in charge of strategy, and get to be on a team to do your work and maybe even help people?

    My partner works in a pretty toxic place where management knows what goes on but ignores what is happening in the lower levels of the organization because they blow past their metrics every year and making money is always the end goal. He is not a fit for this particular organization and realizes that, but thinks it’s his fault. (It is not.) He likes to be part of a team working toward a common goal and would like to not have metrics be part of his job evaluation.

    1. kiwiii*

      I work in a role that’s effectively project management with some front end deliverables (my title here is kind of silly, but it’s similar to a job that has the title “Policy and Planning Analyst”). I work directly with the clients to discuss issues, changes, or new items they want to a larger, standing project, and determine if and how what they want can work with what we do; I communicate that to another team who do some technical work with the client’s data, and then I do front end coding stuff (HTML, C++) stuff to what they give me and release it for the client.

      It’s interesting and not the same every day, I don’t have to deal with real strategy (just small, project specific plans), or money, and there’s a general understanding from the client that if something goes wrong I’m trying to fix it. Metrics is never really part of the conversation unless we’re like way behind the average pace.

    2. Bagel Girl*

      I work as a data analyst at a small consulting firm. I work on a team for each project, and I’m measured on “Is the work done? Relatively on time? Is it correct?”

  45. Immigration*

    This is a work question but some background:

    My spouse is a ~legal immigrant to America, but they’ve been here since they were a baby. We’re working on getting them citizenship a la marriage, but the consulate is a mess so it’s taking a while.

    They’re also looking for jobs but are really feeling just awful about it. They’re not sure if anywhere will hire them because their work authorization ends in the fall–hopefully we can get it sorted by then but still. (They’ll renew if not which :/)

    They have part time jobs but full time feels like another beast. I’m just wondering if y’all have any success stories or tips to pass along their way.

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Figures out this week indicate that the unemployment rate is 3.4% and there were 500,000+ new jobs added in January. The tip I would give is apply, apply, apply.

    2. Kiwiapple*

      I was in the same position in 2021 and my visa expired in early 2022. I kept on getting turned down, even for temp work when I had 6 months left on my visa (not in US). I hope it works out but it was really hard in my case.

    3. Rosemary*

      I am sorry you are in this position. I am currently hiring and we are not able to hire anyone who does not already have authorization, which is a bummer because I come across many good applicants that I have to put into the “no” pile when I see they don’t have authorization and/or will need to be sponsored in the future. Is it very likely that your partner will have it resolved before it expires? If so, is there a way to note that on their resume, that they are anticipating renewal by X date?

    4. germank106*

      I would absolutely include plans to become a citizen (and where in the process your spouse is) in the cover letter or during the interview.

  46. The Crusher*

    This question is about a job I’m no longer at, so don’t need answer fast.

    What do you do about performance-based promotions when you’re slotted into a job that’s not right for you?

    I worked at a test prep company for years. I was very good at teaching one test, and when I asked to go full time they agreed to let me do so on condition I cross-trained to teach another test that was a bigger moneymaker for them. It wasn’t a good fit and my performance ratings dropped. Ratings were generally worse for teachers on this test, but compared to my previous ratings it looked like a bigger drop than it was.

    I was unhappy and started pushing to move into different roles that would have been a better fit, but ratings were so important to the process that when I applied for other roles I’d be told to wait six months to improve my benchmarks.

    This seemed like a difficult position to be in, since my numbers from before the switch were more than good enough, and I raised this concern a couple of times and eventually ended up resigning after two years full time when it became clear I’d handcuffed myself by cross-training. I was too good to fire or put on a PIP but not good enough (at the new test) to get consideration for better fit roles.

    Was this my only choice, or was there a better way to handle this?

    1. kiwiii*

      no advice, but just a chime of agreement that that’s silly. “we’ll only let you not do work you struggle with when you struggle with it less” is … not functional.

      1. cncx*

        That is exactly why I quit my last job. I was bait and switched into doing something I will never be good at, and when I asked to do what I was hired for and what was in my contract (!!) I was told I had to get my metrics up in what I was bad at and hadn’t done in over ten years. Annoying.

    2. ecnaseener*

      Sounds like leaving was your only choice, yeah. You tried to make the case that you’d be better in a different role, they didn’t care because it didn’t fit into their process. The only potential other option I see is applying for lateral transfers instead of promotions, since you said these were promotions, but they might still have a ratings bar for those.

      1. The Crusher*

        Yeah, it was a weird org chart where classroom teaching was sort of entry level by default so anything else (not just management but also things like content development or analytics) was considered a step up. There wasn’t much hope of a lateral move since they weren’t interested in losing a teacher from the big money exam.

        They’d periodically fast track people with awesome numbers. There was a “rotation” track but at the time the only method to get on it involved physically moving to their call center in another state and working your initial rotation in the call center. That wasn’t an option for me.

  47. by golly*

    My partner and I are interviewing for an international position where we would live on site. (think study abroad program, but not quite) What questions would you ask?

    More thoughts: In a normal interview I’d never ask something like “how will this job mesh with my family life?” but we have kids and obviously their quality of life is a huge consideration in this. How do you walk the line between professionalism and the real issue that our family needs this to work for everyone in order for this to work?

    1. summer camp spouse*

      I would ask a lot of specifics around accomodations, settling-in support from the org, what are the expectations for work/ availability hours, are there restrictions on leaving the site when you’re not working, school/etc infrastructure for the kids, and how is the org equipped to support you in case of an emergency (medical/ political unrest/ natural disaster/ etc)

      This isn’t a normal job, it’s your entire family commiting to a lifestyle.

      ALSO because I interviewed for a similar position back in the day, highly recommend talking to other people who’ve worked for the org! I learned a ton that way (the good and the bad).

      Good luck!

    2. 1LFTW*

      If it’s an international position that both you AND your partner are interviewing for, I think the org already realizes that it needs to work for everyone in your family.

      They probably won’t take it amiss if you asked outright how the job meshes with family life. Honestly, I’d be surprised if you have to ask – the org can’t do their work without being able to recruit and retain people who are moving overseas with their families, so I’d imagine that information about transitional support would be part of the interview process.

    3. OtterB*

      You have kids, you would be moving internationally and living on site, your prospective employer should want to make sure that you get answers to all your quality of life questions. It’s the right thing for them to do, but it’s also in their best interest to avoid hiring someone who has to quit early because something just doesn’t work. It is a different case from a normal job and I think the lines of professionalism are drawn differently.

  48. shruggie*

    Any advice on struggling with a new job 3 months in? I switched from vaguely-titled catch-all positions in nonprofits to project manager for a company that offers services to nonprofits. I’ve never encountered this level of volume and complexity of work, and I’m trying to keep up but I’m not sure if I’m doing okay or not. I know I’m missing things, because others are catching edits, but also everything is structured to be reviewed by several people so maybe it’s normal for people to catch edits? I’m also responsible for months-long projects but feel myself needing to ask a question almost daily (that’s starting to taper off slightly, I think?).

    My boss has indicated that there is no formal review system, and while we do have check-ins every week, she seems to mostly be making sure I’m focusing on the right tasks and not forgetting anything. I have no idea if I’m on track or not, and feel very fixated on the errors that are happening. My anxiety is as high as it was at my last job, which was part of why I chose to leave. Thoughts?

    1. The Person from the Resume*

      I think that the lack of negative feedback during your weekly check-ins means that you’re doing fine. If you were doing poorly or making too many errors then this would be the place to talk about it.

      And also it can take more than 3 months to settle in and feel comofrtable especially in a job with months-long projects.

      I think you need to operate as though your anxiety is lying to you and work on lower it rather than worrying about work so much.

    2. kiwiii*

      First, lots of jobs expect you to still be learning 3 months in — the team I’m currently on has 3 people who have all been here less than a year, and only the one who has been here the longest is even close to “at full speed”.

      Do you have any team members or coworkers on other teams who do a similar role that you could ask about the learning curve/timeframe/resources? And/or more direct insight from your manager about where she expects you to be by now and/or resources you can use to spot things like X edit or Y symptom of being disorganized.

      1. shruggie*

        Ah, that’s a great suggestion about coworkers… I’ll bring this up with someone next time I’m in the office.

  49. Anon for this*

    Here to vent! And maybe for some productive discussions?

    I’m in academia, at the level > PhD but < professor, on temporary employment that lasts until a grant/academic year is up. I'm on a committee that represents the other people of my level in my research area. And this committee is where good ideas go to die. Luckily they only meet every few months, but I just had a meeting, and it was the worst thing I've ever been a part of.

    There was recently a mandatory application for promotion that everyone at your university had to do. The population I represent was livid over this, because we know we're only at this university for a short period of time, and then we will be out of a job if we haven't found the next one. We can't get promoted from within meaningfully (as in, we might get a pay bump for like 1 month, but then our contract ends, and there is no path to permanent work). We had to do this stupid thing anyways, and it felt insulting and was very time-consuming. I raised this at the committee meeting.

    I got shot down hardddddd. I was treated as if it was just me complaining, personally, and how lots of other people LOVE the process, and how I'm being "inflammatory" when I say it's a lie this process will lead to a permanent position, because some professors were actually postdocs here before! Like 1) I'm just communicating a joint statement that ALL of us signed, and serving as a representative, not complaining personally and 2) Just because 1 or 2 postdocs moved to professorships does not mean it's realistic to expect the ~5 postdocs that leave EVERY YEAR to have permanent jobs waiting for them at this university. You'd need to hire 5 new professors a year! That's not realistic.

    Then I was told that I'm putting down atypical career paths, because some people have kids and don't want to move, etc etc. And it's like??!! I'm not saying people are "better" if they move on, I'm saying we're being forced to move on? Like I'd love to settle down and have kids but in a few months I need to move to a new country because that's where I will have a job. My God.

    Does anyone have any experience with this kind of stonewalling? How do you emotionally and practically deal with this? I feel like I was being told I was crazy for stating the simple fact that temporary workers in academia cannot, for the majority of us, reasonably expect to be promoted from within? That's the truth! Another dimension is that there's a strong population of "went to the best schools, all of US got jobs" at play, who don't know the point of view of the most of the temporary researchers who like… aren't in that position and need to hustle A LOT to stay in in the field. How does one stay sane?

    Sorry if this is a lot, I'm still processing.

    1. DrSalty*

      Yeah being a postdoc sucks. It’s a system that thrives on exploitation so I’m not surprised you’re running up against an unwillingness to see reality on behalf of faculty/administrators/whoever. The only way to stay sane is to gtfo.

      1. DrSalty*

        I’ll just add, leaving academia isn’t quitting, it’s choosing what’s right for you and your life and your happiness. It’s a wonderful world here in industry … the pay is better, the jobs are more stable, and the work-life balance is more realistic. Obviously there are plenty of non-academic jobs that suck, but at least you’re getting paid at a level commensurate to your education and skills, and you’re not *guaranteed* to have to uproot your life every 1-2 years for 10 years until you *maybe* find a faculty position.

        Good luck where ever your path takes you!

        1. Not my real name*

          This. Every year at my professional org conference we have some version of “Industry, it’s not evil” for a talk. This year we had a ton of students so hopefully the message is getting out.

      2. Anon for this*

        Yes, I think my research got kind of hot so I might make it to a permanent job (I got a Very Good postdoc next year, and this year I’m on some faculty shortlists) but it’s particularly irritating that this process actively takes time away from me applying for like… real jobs where I actually can advance.

          1. Anon for this*

            So in the end this was the most useful advice: that we can turn in a blank form if we want. Of course that makes it effectively voluntary not mandatory, but whatever. At least we have the freedom to do that. I had to be gaslit to hell and accused of being anti-EDI (the blood, sweat, and tears I have fought for EDI… I can’t even) but I finally did get that out of them.

    2. Maple Bar*

      A good way I like to deal with people dangling fake carrots like this is just to act extremely credulous. “Oh! So we all actually do have a path to permanent positions here? If we fill this out we can be made permanent soon? All of us? Fantastic! Tell me more about that!” Watch them shrink back like turtles into their shells.

      They’re BSing you, they know it, you know it, but you’re never going to get them to admit it by pointing out how obvious it is. You can, however, get them to backtrack by leaning into it.

  50. NotJustAnAdmin*

    TL;DR – How do you tell someone “I like the work, but would hate you as a manager?”

    I’ve been working with another department on a specific set of tasks for a long time now; it started as a temporary project when someone got laid off and then they just…never hired anyone… They have been very happy with my work and have not been shy about asking me whether I’d ever consider joining their team “for real” when the time comes. I admit, in the beginning I was actually interested, because the work itself was challenging, I excelled at it, and I thought they could maybe offer me more money. But I also like my current role (my actual job, not just this pseudo in-between thing I’ve been doing). So I kept my options open.

    Fast forward to today and the shine has definitely worn off. The manager of the other dept is a micromanager with boundary issues, and treats me like it’s already a done deal that I’m just on the team, including the amount of requests/work that I get asked to do. I wake up every morning to slack messages and emails with requests/meetings/fire drills, and the stress is literally starting to affect my health. I’ve been working with my boss on pushing back and managing the workload, but he doesn’t think he can feasibly pull me out of that dept for another few months (thanks to me being a rockstar, I’m one of only a handful of people in our whole company who knows how to use this specialized computer software, and we’re in the middle of a high-visibility project).

    One thing I want to do is to explain in no uncertain terms that I’m no longer interested in joining the other dept…except the entire reason for that is the manager. I really love the rest of the work, and people can tell. So it’d come as a complete 180 to just say “I don’t like the work anymore.” How do I explain “I got a taste for what it’d be like to really work for you, and there’s no way I would ever subject myself to that willingly?”

    1. NeedRain47*

      Can you say something about the “pace” of the department? It sounds like the other dept is operating on an “everything is an emergency” level. This might be the manager’s fault, but you don’t have to mention that. Assuming your regular dept isn’t sending urgent messages in the wee hours daily, it seems like phrasing it that way might be close enough to the truth without giving the real reason.

    2. Mockingjay*

      Just refer to your own department. “Filling in at Temp Dept. has been challenging/interesting, but I’m really looking forward to getting back to my main role in Sane Dept.”

      You didn’t specifically ask this, but as someone who has been “perma-borrowed” before, I’d strategize with your manager to wean you from Temp Dept. Ensure work requests are run through or at least cc’ed to Sane Manager. Have Sane Manager push back on requests occasionally. Organize training on the special software – surely the vendor has a course. Sane Manager can also compile stats on the impact to Sane Dept’s productivity and set a firm end date; “you can have NotJustAnAdmin for another month, but then I need them back on the Sane Team so we can deliver on Project X”.

      Right now you are filling two roles adequately, so of course Temp Dept. isn’t in a hurry to rehire. You and Sane Manager need to make Temp Manager feel some pain.

  51. potted cactus*

    A person on my small team was recently fired. I was close to this person, and feel like they were treated badly by our company. I am having a hard time retaining trust in our team managers, who I also had a good relationship with. I wonder if I was being naive in my prior outlook on our company and management? How do I move past this?

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Is it possible that there were more issues with this person’s work than you realized? It wouldn’t have been your business as an employee to know that much about your coworker’s work status.

      Although, if this isn’t the only person who has been fired . . . have other firings also seemed unfair?

    2. NeedRain47*

      Honestly this can be really hard to move past, b/c the only way for people to rebuild that is to not do untrustworthy things. And the nature of businesses is that the administrators are always more concerned with money than people. You shouldn’t trust them, b/c they’re not there for you. Even knowing this, it’s not naive to feel betrayed when something bad happens, it’s human. It sounds like your managers have been reliable in the past, so try to consider the total of their actions before you judge them instead of just this one. But don’t expect to get over it super quick, I think it’s more hurtful b/c it was your friend and it’s okay to be upset.

    3. Same Same!*

      I’m in a similar position. My coworker was recently fired really unethically, and replaced with someone with no education in this field, no related skills or abilities who just happens to have married the daughter of big boss last fall.
      It had nothing to do with his work, coworker was a rock star. We were a great team, knocking it out of the park together. But he was out twice with Covid in 2022 (both times when there was an outbreak at work!) and that wiped out all his PTO.
      Coworker asked for permission to still take 3 days at New Years to attend his sisters wedding, and was okay with them being unpaid. Management said yes, that would be fine. The day coworker returned he was written up three times for no call, no show (once for each day) and fired under the “three strikes” policy. Even though he had email proof that it had been okayed, he was told the policy still held and that no one had told him he was exempt from the policy, so he should not have assumed he could “get away with it”.
      Nepo replacement was literally sitting in FIL’s office until coworker was walked out!
      And guess who gets to train this clueless noob?
      I’ve lost all faith in this place and am looking elsewhere. I don’t know that it is possible to move past this here. Literally 6 weeks ago I loved working here.
      All that to say there may not be moving past it while staying there. When your workplace shows their true colors, believe them.

    4. miel*

      I’m sorry, this sucks. I was in a similar position recently, where a work friend was pushed out for what seemed to me like BS reasons.

      I know I’ll never have the full story, which sucks.

      I don’t really have any advice, just solidarity.

      1. potted cactus*

        thanks all, this is really helpful and definitely validating to know that I’m not the only one to feel this way.

        1. Me ... Just Me*

          I would start of by trying the “same page” technique – ask them what they discussed in the meeting with your manager (and anyone else they’ve met with on this) and what they perceive any issues to be, so that you can start “on the same page”, then reiterate any points that you feel need to be focused on and bring up any issues that they haven’t mentioned.

          I’ve done the “I wasn’t in the meeting you had with my boss, so can you just fill me in on what was discussed and any take-aways from that meeting, so that we can both start on the same page?”

    5. Fluffy Fish*

      Sometimes, even many times, there’s A LOT more to someone’s work and behavior than what you see of it.

      A colleague recently let an employee go. This employee was well liked by many in various departments and her side of the story is that her boss was awful and unfair.

      I was privy to some of this individuals behavior and work that all those other people never saw – she was absolutely rightfully terminated.

      That doesn’t make her an awful person or a terrible employee across the board. But in this position she was.

    6. Maple Bar*

      A lot of people saying you may not know the whole story, which is true, but you can also trust what you’ve seen. It’s normal for people to assume that, if they have been generally treated well, that their management is entirely trustworthy. If you see them treat other people poorly, they can definitely treat you the same way in the right circumstances, and you should not trust that they won’t just because they haven’t done it to you before. I’d keep an eye on them and be careful going forward.

  52. Aunt Vixen*

    (reposting because I had a link and the mod queue probably ate it)

    Can anyone help me find a letter in the archive? LW was hiring for a position where the previous employee had died and was asking how to disclose that information if candidates asked about the circumstances of the vacancy. This was not, repeat, not the one where the team had driven off three or four people in the year following their late colleague’s death; just a LW wondering how to answer the question, which could quite reasonably come up. I’ve done some keyword searching and dug through about 20 pages in the “hiring” tag and can’t find it. Thanks for any help!

      1. Aunt Vixen*

        No, it isn’t. As I said: This was not, repeat, not the one where the team had driven off three or four people in the year following their late colleague’s death. But thanks for trying.

        1. Trina*

          I’m so sorry, my reading comprehension is clearly not on point today! I’m glad something about sharks was able to track it down for you.

          (I am also baffled that, upon browsing the lower results of the “employee died” search, the letter you wanted doesn’t show up despite having both those words in the post title!)

    2. Isben Takes Tea*

      Ooh, I remember the one you’re talking about! I feel it was relatively recent, like in the last few months. I’m taking a look but also not finding it. How curious!

    4. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Is it one of these three?

      Colleague won’t leave me alone after my former employee died (1 of 5, March 26, 2021)
      My boss died right after I started my job (3 of 5, August 3 2017)
      When your boss dies (October 19, 2012)

    5. something about sharks*

      Link currently sitting in moderation as well, but try June 2021, “our babysitter ghosted us and now works at my office, replacing a beloved employee who died, and more” – it’s not precisely the same details but pretty close?

      1. Aunt Vixen*

        Thank you!, that was the one! I’m impressed that you found it and (still irritated that I couldn’t). It was specifically the up-front recommended language that I was looking for. Thanks again.

        1. something about sharks*

          You’re welcome, I’m glad it was helpful! I tracked it down through several layers of “you may also like” links – it wasn’t showing up in the search for me either. No idea why this post in particular decided to hide.

  53. UK Hiring Manager Question*

    I find myself at risk if redundancy due to a restructure that no one saw coming! (8 months after I moved roles due to a different department restructure).

    I’m looking for learning and development roles, and almost every job I come across includes the Hiring Managers name and contact details, and seems to encourage applicants to get in touch.

    I know from reading this blog that this is very much a no no in the US, but is there a different expectation in the UK? Am I more likely to get to interview if I DO contact? What do I say if do? I usually find the Job Description covers everything I’d want to know!

    Thank you

    1. londonedit*

      I don’t think there’s any expectation that people will get in touch, and I don’t think they’d look more favourably on you either way. It’d be fine to just submit your application as normal, if you don’t have any questions about the process. It seems to be becoming more common for job adverts here to include a name and contact details and a line saying ‘Should you have any questions about this position, please contact Jane Smith’ or whatever – I have a feeling it’s all tied up with DEI initiatives and making applications as accessible as possible.

    2. HHD*

      I’m always open to people getting in touch, but it doesn’t mean they have to or it will advantage them at all. It’s definitely linked to inclusion but also to trying to sound warm and human

    3. North Star*

      I have used that as an opportunity to just chat to someone to get a feel for the organisation, albeit through that one person.
      One time I got it wrong by calling in to the premises on my way past and asking to talk to the person (what the holy f was I thinking? I think I wanted to screen for someone bad, but the manager was clearly irritated to be pulled away from her work and I totally get that. I don’t see how it was worse than if I had phoned, but somehow it just was!)
      Two other times I phoned and it worked in my favour, showing I was enterprising and thorough, I suppose. As it happens, I got those jobs.
      Just keep the phone calls brief and to-the-point eh :-)

  54. But Not the Hippopotamus*

    I have signed a job offer, contingent on a background check (which will come up boring). I’m holding off on giving notice until it comes through and we set a start date, even though we have already covered that verbally (it’s in March).

    Could someone just reassure me that I’m not being a jerk by not giving as much notice as possible, but sticking with 2-3 weeks?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Two weeks is the professional norm, so you’re not being a jerk by giving two weeks (and potentially doing your company a kindness by giving three).

    2. ferrina*

      You’re being smart and considerate. Background checks are notorious for creating time warps. You don’t want to tell your current employer that you’ll end on a certain date, then need to move that for whatever reason.

      Congrats on the new offer!

    3. BellyButton*

      Stick to waiting until everything has been cleared. I once had a background check come back completely wrong and the company pulled their offer. It took months for me to get the report and I have no ideas whose information was on it, but it wasn’t mind. I later found out the background check company had had a class action lawsuit filed against them because so many other people had had the experience.

    4. rayray*

      I understand what you are thinking, but the most important thing of all in these situations is to put yourself first, not the company or your coworkers. 2-3 weeks notice is plenty of time.

      Good luck on the new job!

    6. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      Thanks, everyone. I had this vision of giving 4 weeks notice and it’s not gonna happen, so I appreciate the sanity check!

    7. Me ... Just Me*

      If it makes you feel better, start preparing things (without telling anyone) that you can wrap up or put materials together for, right now; so that when you do give your notice, you’ll be ahead of the game in transitioning out.

  56. Marcella*

    How do you convey the value of experience to someone who doesn’t have any? I have a marcom contract with a company where I am in the office twice a week. The office admin is a young man who wants to do social media, writing, or marketing. He doesn’t have any actual copywriting, design, SEO, or other skills I would expect from someone on my team, but I offered him 2 small assignments so he could get a taste and see if he enjoys it.

    Unfortunately, he did a poor job and he’s impatient with all the tedious work of marketing and PR – analytics, pitching, taking multiple rounds of feedback, etc. Yet he’s now gone to HR and suggested he become a Director/Head of Communications, Director/Head of Social Marketing, or some other comparable title. When I asked why he felt he should start at that level, his answer was basically that I am called “Head of” and so he should be too now that he has a “portfolio.” I was incredulous that he saw himself as my equal – I have decades of experience behind me.

    At the same time, they just hired someone right out of college who has come to me upset because her title is “Designer” and not “Senior Designer” like another designer. I said “Senior” was a level up and she got even more upset and said she was just as good as the other designer and we were being unfair.

    This is not something I ever would have felt entitled to at age 22 or 25. Has anyone else encountered this? I know HR agrees with me, but they seem to be dodging the issue by telling the admin and the designer to talk to me about “a leadership path.” And hey, I’m all for a leadership path but that path is called…. experience and growth. And as a contractor, I feel it’s their job to have tough discussions with their employees.

    1. Qwerty*

      Do they report to you? Are you hoping to teach them because its part of your duties or because you are kind?

      I’m all for mentorship, but there’s a level of out of touchness here that you don’t need to tackle unless it is part of your responsiblity to. I’d recommend boring answers and not being their sounding board because I don’t think you are going to get anywhere. They don’t know enough to know how much they don’t know, and they probably won’t behave well towards the person who explains that to them.

      Also, starting your career at the top kinda sucks. I rapidly ascended and was a Senior Engineer at 25 and there really isn’t anywhere to go from there, which is why I now change industries with every job to get new challenges.

    2. urguncle*

      Ummm, agreed that being a contractor you have absolutely no reason to be mentoring and giving “leadership paths” to people in the organization that you work seemingly very part-time for. You probably can give them a good idea on what they’d need to accomplish to do what you’re doing, but other than that, this isn’t your organization!
      I completely empathize. I had someone come to me last summer asking how she could get something similar to my current job and she was not very pumped to hear things like “do work outside of your job description” and “take on projects that require you to stretch your technical skills.” It sucks to hear that you have to be uncomfortable to get the things you want.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        > being a contractor you have absolutely no reason to be mentoring and giving “leadership paths” to people in the organization that you work seemingly very part-time for

        Reading between the lines HR etc are uncomfortable having that conversation with him and want OP to instead. The implication is OP will be telling him why he isn’t really suitable for a leadership path so that HR don’t have to do the difficult part of their job.

    3. BellyButton*

      “Yet he’s now gone to HR and suggested he become a Director/Head of Communications, Director/Head of Social Marketing, or some other comparable title. ”

      HAHAHA how did you keep a straight face?!?1

    4. ferrina*

      Oh wow. Who’s in charge of hiring on that team? Cuz that’s some amazing audacity that they seem to be screening for. How do you call a couple of basic assignments a “portfolio”?!

      I’d stay out of it if I were you. This is their manager’s problem, not yours. They’ll learn soon enough.

    5. Robin Ellacott*

      It’s 100% their job and as a contractor you can’t really speak to what path may be available within the company anyway.

      I’d suggest saying something like this to these optimistic upstarts: “well, in my case and for the people I know in the industry, the path to a senior role was years, maybe decades of experience. You’d have to talk to someone in management or HR here about whether there’s any different route in this company – I don’t know of one.”

  57. Trina*

    I work at a public library that, as a result of some board members that have gone pearl-clutchy over teen books having any mention of s-e-x whatsoever, has to now move a significiant number of YA items to the adult department.

    Our admin and management is awesome and has had our back to the best of their abilities, and we know they’re just as disheartened by this whole situation as front-line staff are, which means this doesn’t rise to the level of job-searching for most of us (so far, anyway).

    My actual question: any advice on how to help keep spirits up among coworkers? Or at least not get bogged down in the gunk. 99% of our patrons love us, our program attendance is amazing, and we’re still doing so many cool, good, helpful things for our community, but so many office conversations lately swirl back to the one big thing that sucks.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      If you want to fight back on this ALA has really great resources. I confess I am upset on your behalf, as another librarian. However, I have worked at places that did a similar thing and I found the only way to deal with it was to accept it was out of my hands and fight back in the tiny ways I could (with the support of my boss.) For example, can you put some of the “offending books” on display? Around non-sex theme like- Books with Some Other Topic These Happen to Also Touch on. Can you make sure they have clear spine stickers and put a sign in the Teen area directing towards them? For more books you might like check out this sicker in the Adult Fiction. I think the feeling of powerlessness is often what makes people really upset.

    2. Qwerty*

      What is the impact to patrons of moving the books to the adult section? Is it harder for teens to get access to this section? Or is it just that their books are now split between two sections?

      The reason I ask is the teens might not really care, which I hope is a consolation to the staff. As a kid, I loved Mercedes Lackey and had no idea why half the books were in the Adult section. By the time I realized why I was in college and had already finished all her books. And jokes on the parents – if I have to go to the Adult section looking for a book, I’m going to start exploring that section more regularly. So really the board just introduced the teens to a much larger collection of “inappropriate” material! (I get amused when rules like this backfire – maybe you all can be amused at the ineffectiveness too?)

      Probably too late to help your library, but one city I was in split the YA section into YA (middle school) and Teen (high school) to deal with stuff like this that was seen as too adult for a 10/11yr old but seemed too pearl clutchy to hide from a 16/17yr old.

      1. Kimmy Schmidt*

        The fact that they’re split into two (or more) sections, plus it lowers spontaneous discovery. Teens will now have to go looking for a specific title instead of being able to browse a designated area for things that might interest them. Some teens can feel awkward or unsafe in the main library collection, whereas teen collections are usually located in or near teen spaces with designated computers, games, furniture, and other resources. There will be some teens who have your experience of opening a new book world, but they’re likely in the minority. Teens can also be scared to ask questions, so if something was in one spot and now it’s not, they may be less likely to approach a librarian for help. They just won’t access the resource.

        It also takes a ton of staff time and resources to move and shift the books that could be better spent elsewhere. It’s noisy, messy, and disruptive. It undermines the professional competency of the library staff by making it seem like they “made the wrong choice”.

        1. Jessica*

          If your teens feel unsafe in the main stacks, I’d think some of the adult patrons might too–and in any case, that’s really disturbing! Do you have a creepy-patrons problem?

          Can you have security (if your library has security) be closer to the problem area? Better lighting? Change the shelving in any way for better sightlines? Have various library staff walk through more often? This seems like a separate problem that also merits serious attention.

      2. Tuesday*

        I do think it will be harder for kids with really strict parents who are likely to pay attention to where their kids go in the library, but I was the same as you – my mom would just let me wander and gets books from anywhere, especially as a teen.

    3. ferrina*

      Confirm that this is ridiculous, but it’s the rules. Subtly remind them of what they can do- see someone that likes a certain author? “Hey, have you read X? It’s in the adult section- I can help you find it.” Put together main displays that highlights the hidden books. There’s a number of ways that a dedicated work force can quietly enforce the letter of the law while undermining the spirit, some subtle, other methods more overt. You understand their frustration and if they need to leave, but you also hope that they will stay, because these are the kind of people who are conscientious enough to be the support when there is none.

      Honestly, something like this brings out my impish side. “Oh, did I leave that book there? Silly me, I totally forgot it goes in adult now! Gosh, I’m so forgetful these days.”

    4. North Star*

      This stuff really annoys me – specifically the idea some adults have that teenagers are not sexual. Not all teenagers are, but quite a lot of teenagers (even young ones) are very much exploring. I know we don’t like to think of it, because to us they look a bit like children, but we’re being IDIOTS.
      Without the guidance of adults (including YA books) teens miss out on a lot of wisdom we could pass on to them. My main teacher, when it came to how-to-keep-myself-safe-and-empowered-as-a-sexual-female, was Sex and The City, and although that was quite good it would have been better if I’d had a more rounded education!

    5. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      Can you put up a lot of signage about how to use the computer to search for books you might be interested in in the library catalog by things like author name or genre? That’s how I figured out it was time to explore both the YA section and the adult section as a tween.

      (In my particular case, I read one of Tanith Lee’s (appropriately shelved) YA books, and asked the library search terminal what other books they had by her. She used the same name for both her actually-YA and her actually-adult fiction, which is less common now, but knowing that I was going in search of a specific book by a known author and that I knew which specific part of the “adult” half of the library to find it in helped my confidence.)

      For your actual question, try to set aside some time and space for specifically looking for positive things as well as some specific time and space for venting about The Big Problem. Don’t ignore that the problem is happening, but acknowledge that it is not the only thing that is happening and to take time to notice both.

  58. Lavender*

    I’ve been struggling with long-running frustration about a team that I work with closely. They provide some valuable insight to my team that we need for our performance, but it doesn’t feel like a mutual relationship. They seem to be black and white thinkers and don’t seem capable of engaging in conversations about how we can get to mutual value (basically, “our way is the right way”).

    I’ve been working with the manager, who is aware of the issue and providing coaching to his team members, but change is slow. I know that my team members are frustrated. I’m trying to balance empathizing, and letting them know I’m addressing the issue in the ways I can, with still encouraging them to keep an open mind and ensure we are able to work productively with this team. Any tips on striking the right balance? What would you want to hear from your manager in this instance?

    1. Cubicle monkey manager*

      I feel like there are times to keep an open mind, and times to draw boundaries. Your team has to be willing to work with this other team, but they don’t have to convince the other team to agree with them, or even enjoy working with them. What helps me most, and what I do for my team, is to have the manager take the burden of escalation. If one of your team members isn’t getting what they need on a project, they shouldn’t have to fight every time to get it – instead they could come to you, you do the communication of “we need X and we are getting Y, please commit to giving us X by deadline” so your team can focus on what they can get done.

    2. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      If you can be an intermediary at all, to help reduce the number of times your team hears “your way is wrong” that could go a long way. Just saying “potential ways to improve” and then listing whatever the other team said, could be valuable. Or even asking the team to rotate who is talking with them.

      Tell them what you are doing, acknowledge where it’s not as much as you/they would like.

  59. Lauren*

    I don’t like my job. I feel like a cog in a machine and expected to conform with templates even if the ask doesn’t fit in with needing a template. Or it pushes real work the client may want further away because i’m expected to use the templates. None of the meat of the work gets done upfront and instead i’m checklisting things that are not very actionable because they’ve shoved things into a 3 different template. So there are times when everything is fine in phase 1, but the issues are all in the other phases that are not assigned yet. I miss using my brain as a consultant and directing the roadmaps vs. do all 18 things in order even if only 4 have a benefit to the client and these other things would help more.

  60. Qwerty*

    I got a really sincere thank you this week from a recruiter for turning them down. Which got me wondering – is anyone using response rates to try to encourage better interactions with recruiters? Recruiters, do you find it helpful when people reply “thanks, but I’m happy at my current job” ? Do you get evaluated on your response rates or just how many positions you fill?

    I’m realizing that recruiters probably have no idea if the lack of response is due to the email not getting read, the recipient not looking for a new job, the recipient being a bad match but would have been open to a better fit job, or if the email was just terrible. Getting a pleasant email from a recruiter is an ego boost and I’d rather receive those than the really pushy or vague ones I usually get.

    1. Lauren*

      I usually ask about salary regardless just to gauge if I should be looking unless it’s such a low entry level position or something completely unrelated to me that it was obvious no one looking at my profile. It helps for the next reach out, when something bigger comes along – they don’t contact you for same level you are at.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      I utilize LinkedIn quite a bit for recruiting and use InMails frequently. I always appreciate when a potential candidate lets me know if they aren’t interested. The main reason is I only have a finite amount of InMails to send each month and they are really expensive if you need to purchase additional ones. If a candidate at least responds to my InMail (either positively or negatively) I at least get my InMail credit back. In addition, if a candidate responds back, even in the negative, it allows me to follow up with them to gauge a role that the candidate may be open to discussing.

  61. Crumbs*

    Has anyone ever had their main President/Director leave, get a new one in, things go crazy, and then it gets better? I’m an assistant to the vice president, and ever since our president left and we got a new one, people have lost their minds. This used to be a great place to work, but now it seems like everyone is mean, unhappy and aggressive for no reason.

    It’s been about six months, and tons of people are quitting, but I don’t really want to if it will go back to how it used to be eventually once people get over the change? I can’t tell if this is a permanent culture change or just growing pains. The new Pres is definitely an “I don’t talk to staff or take their opinions into consideration while I make a bunch of changes” type, but most of her changes make sense. Should I just start looking anyway?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Do you agree and support what she’s doing? If nothing changed, how long would you stay? I think answering those questions will help you a lot.

    2. Anon for NewPres*

      Why are tons of people quitting if most of the changes make sense? Changing jobs is a big deal and I don’t think a lot of people would do it just because someone had moved their proverbial cheese. Is anything changing about the nature of the org, change of direction etc? Who are the people that are quitting and who are they being replaced with?

      Asking all this because I need more information to have an opinion about this – personally my workplace did have a drastic leadership change that led a lot of people to leaving, and, even though the culprit was terminated, the org was never the same. He’d done too much damage, drove a lot of key people out, led to managers leaving and starting competing companies and hiring others away etc. I’ve been lowkey looking all these years, but no luck this far.

    3. Qwerty*

      On a smaller scale, when a well liked leader leaves, there is inevitable turnover. Change is uncomfortable, even when it is a good change. Discomfort makes people open to new opportunities. Seeing their coworkers leave makes them look elsewhere.

      Do *you* like the new president? You say her changes make sense, so maybe the new style could work for you. I’m guessing there are people who aren’t feeling heard and that bothers them enough to leave, or enough to be grouchy and cause the people around them to leave.

      It’ll never be how it used to be, but that doesn’t mean it’ll stay in this weird state forever. A lot will depend on what culture gets built with the new people who replace all the ones leaving.

    4. Egg*

      Years ago, I wish I’d known that a new boss can change everything and that it might be time to go. I was very stable and happy indeed in my job, and when my old boss said they were leaving I didn’t realise just how much I should strap myself in for a possible bumpy ride. New boss came, he wreaked havoc and then he quit after a couple of months. NEW new boss came, unleashed toxicity, and after a year of trying to problem solve I finally left , with my heart and spirit bashed. I wish, I wish, I WISH I’d left when I was still feeling reasonably good.

      But your circumstances may be different to mine! The new boss(es) in my case were toxic, and perhaps yours isn’t.

  62. reject187*

    Any advice on how to prepare for a one-way video-recorded interview? I blew it last time I had to do one and it’s tripping me up.

    1. irene adler*

      Yeah- I find them difficult to do. No one to talk to so that you can see how you are doing.

      Have in front of you, but out of view of the camera, your resume, the job description, paper and pen for jotting down things. Maybe even a company description or information from their website. Sometimes they ask what you saw or liked about their website. This will help answering that.

      Usually you are given an interview question, followed by a couple of minutes to prepare the response, after which they turn on the camera to record your response. Use that few minutes before the camera goes on to plan out a quick outline or jot down some key words or points you want to use in your response. Then have this to refer to when the camera goes on.

      Prior to the interview, might practice answering typical open-ended interview questions. Talk to a mirror as you do this. The goal is to be comfortable talking to the camera, issuing a concise response and then stopping when you have answered the question. Sometimes the camera makes folks prattle on and on. Not a good look.

      Good luck!

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Sometimes the camera makes folks prattle on and on.

        I can understand how this would be worse than an in-person (or even phone/video) conversation, where you can end your answer and the other person will respond. So prepare yourself some conversational “off-ramps.” A phrase that you can use to signal to yourself and whoever eventually watches the video that “this wraps up my answer to this question.”

  63. Employee’s Boyfriend in 1x1*

    I had a Zoom 1×1 with my remote employee. Nothing sensitive or performance-related, just general catching up on status of projects and discussing priorities.

    During the course of our meeting, it became clear that her boyfriend was in the room with her listening in. He made some comments I think he thought I wouldn’t hear, but I did. I told her I could hear someone else talking and asked what that was, and then it stopped.

    She works out of her large home, so I don’t believe it was a matter of him having nowhere else he could go. It made me uncomfortable, but is it something I actually should address? And if so, what should I say?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I would bring this up. It may embarrass her slightly, but if you come across as non-judgmental about it, just say that it’s not really appropriate going forward for him to be listening in on your meetings.

    2. kiwiii*

      On the team I’m on, it wouldn’t be that strange for a partner to be in the same room as someone while they’re in a meeting. At least two people of 7 share home offices with their spouse.

      If it was something confidential or private, I would highlight ahead of time that you’d prefer she go somewhere she not be overheard. And I think during the meeting, you could have flagged (right away!) that you found it strange that the boyfriend was there. But now, after the face, if it was just that you were surprised … i think you should drop it.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I think the issue here isn’t that the partner is in the room but that he’s making comments about the conversation. If your partner has the good sense to just be in the background and pretend not to hear stuff, there’s usually no problem with it (as long as you aren’t talking about top secret things).

    3. Fluffy Fish*

      I think you did address it at the time and don’t need to address it further unless it happens again.

      They obviously picked up your hint that it was inappropriate because it stopped.

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      It could just be the BF being clueless. But this could also be a red flag for other controlling behavior.

  64. blood orange*

    This is sort of a work-adjacent question about my commute into work. I don’t think I handled this situation very well, and I’m curious what others would have done.

    I drive into work every weekday morning around 9am. Earlier this week, the vehicle behind me flashed their lights, and I started trying to think what they could be doing… did I have a break light out, it couldn’t be my trunk, etc. Then I start to feel like the person is following me…. he (I realize it’s a man now) turns onto the campus where I work, then turns onto my road which is even more unusual, pulls into my parking lot, and parks two spaces away from me. I get out, and he then YELLS AT ME ABOUT MY DRIVING! Now I’m really pretty freaked out. This is the building I work in every day, I’m a woman by myself, my building is on the edge of campus so there are rarely other people around, and I don’t know this man or his intentions. I said something really stupid back to him, and just turned and went into my building while he kept yelling at me. I just wanted to get away.

    I kept looking out my office window (third floor so he can’t know where I am) to see if he was still there. In the evening, I left early so it was still light out. The experience ruined my day, and made me afraid even the next day that he could come back, but thankfully I haven’t seen him since.

    I kind of wish that I had told him off in the moment, but did I do the right thing by just getting away from him? Should I have driven around to lose him once I was pretty sure he was following me? Should I have called campus police?

    1. Well...*

      Yes you absolutely did the right thing! Getting away from him was the best move. Road rage is super dangerous… what if he had had a gun?

      If you wanted more safety, you could have driven to a local police station, that might have scared him off. That depends on whether you find police stations safe places though, so YMMV. You don’t necessarily have to go in, just going into the parking lot might be enough to shake him.

    2. summer camp spouse*

      Yikes. I’m so sorry, this is really scary.

      I think you handled this just fine! Your priority was getting away from this person and into a safe place, and you did.

      I think other steps would be up to you – you might send an email to campus police just to have it documented, but it sounds like this was probably a (very horrible) one-off situation.

    3. Grey Panther*

      That’s scary, orange. I think you did the right thing in getting away from him, and I’m not convinced his accosting you had anything to do with “mistakes” in your driving.

      One time, on big-city streets, I (female) was followed by an aggressive (male) driver. I drove directly into my local police station’s parking lot and pulled up at the building’s rear entrance, where lots of uniformed officers were around.

      Mr. Aggressive actually followed me into the lot, then realized where he was and what specific group of people were observing him with interest, and decamped immediately. Didn’t see him again—though I did keep a close eye on the rear-view mirror.

      Anyway, I’m glad you’re okay; and if it happens again, maybe you drive right up onto the campus police’s lawn—and then call them!

    4. Tuesday*

      I don’t think telling him off would have made it better. He clearly has no understanding of reasonable behavior, and it might have escalated things if he’d gotten even angrier. I personally would have driven to the police station or something similar, but once you were at work, going into the building was the safest option for sure!

    5. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

      I think you did the right thing getting away from him. I suggest letting your campus security know it happened, even though it was earlier this week, and describe the car. If there’s a security camera in that parking lot, they may be able to pull up the footage. Not that there’s much they can/should do, but you never know–this guy might have hassled others on campus and Security would want to know that!

      The odds this guy will follow you again are slim, but he’s definitely unhinged. Telling someone off is better in your head than when it escalates a dangerous situation.

    7. But Not the Hippopotamus*

      Concur that you did the right thing getting away. If you’d been able to get the plate numbers and report it, that might have been better, but you can only do so much and the priority is always immediate safety.

    8. SnappinTerrapin*

      Avoiding confrontations whenever practical is prudent. If you had gotten into a shouting match, it would’ve been difficult for third party witnesses to sort out who was the aggressor. And there’s an old saying about not arguing with idiots, because it’s hard for bystanders to tell which is which.

      Keeping control of your own feelings was a victory, and gave you an advantage if he had continued to escalate.

      It’s not a bad idea, going forward, to have a contingency plan about driving to the police station in the event that someone does something similar in the future. In the alternative, consider placing a calm call to 911, explaining what is happening and where you are.

  65. summer camp spouse*

    My partner is a summer camp director. In an effort to slightly offset the low wages (which is a whole ‘nother story) and support the international staff especially, they’re thinking about providing basic toiletries for staff.

    My first question is, what is the go-to shampoo for curly/ textured hair?

    Secondly, what products could the organization provide that would help staff settle in and save a few bucks on their initial Walmart run? Laundry soap, shampoo, and conditioner are my top three ideas.

    1. reject187*

      As someone with curly hair, there isn’t a go-to product for anyone in particular, especially since there’s so many types of curly hair. But if you’re asking specifically for Afro-textured hair, you might want to ask in the curlyhair subreddit. I know Cantu and Shea Moisture products are fairly popular.

    2. kiwiii*

      I wonder if ahead of time you could just ask what people prefer? It adds some steps, but it shampoo is pretty personal to lots of people.

      If that’s too many steps, is a “here’s a walmart giftcard for toiletries” an option?

    3. rocklobsterbot*

      Menstrual supplies? sunscreen and bug spray if those aren’t already included? basic OTC meds like pain relievers if this isn’t some sort of legal issue?

    4. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

      Menstrual products! Those are always left out of “basic toiletries,” and they’re so important. Especially at a summer camp, where I assume the local Walmart is more than just a quick trip away.

      Everyone who menstruates will be taken by surprise at some point, and need something RIGHT NOW. Honestly I think every workplace should have some on hand, regardless of how close the nearest store is or whether or not they provide other toiletries. You never know exactly when, but guaranteed somebody will need them at some point!

      1. Indolent Libertine (formerly Empress Matilda)*

        Others:

        Contact lens case & solution
        Toothpaste & toothbrush
        Bandaids (you probably have first aid kits already, but it couldn’t hurt to put some in the personal toiletries as well)
        Nail files
        Hair elastics
        Razors

        And maybe some digestive aids? Depending on where your international staff are coming from – or even just city people being in the “wilderness” for the first time – if it’s a significant change in diet and/or drinking water, there’s a good chance there will be some upset stomachs the first few days.

      2. summer camp spouse*

        This is such a good idea, thank you!

        I think camp has some backup menstrual supplies for campers but I love the idea of making them readily and explicitly available for staff too!

        1. lia*

          Yes please! I was a camp counselor, and we could make weekend walmart runs if someone had a car, but if we were surprised during the week we had to ask around. I also had tween campers that got their first period while at camp and they were more likely to come to me (or another counselor) than the nurse – we needed to be able to give them what they needed without embarrassing them more than they already were, and that often meant depleting personal supplies!

      3. Kimmy Schmidt*

        Absolutely seconding menstrual supplies! My college provides them, and the free ones are supplemented by donations from faculty, and they go FAST.

        Other ideas – sunscreen, lotion, bug spray, hydrocortisone cream or some other basic topical ointment, and toothpaste.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Would it be possible to give them a gift card for setting up rather than buying the materials for them? Because I guarantee you that five people with curly and/or textured hair are going to use five different shampoos among them, and at least two of them, you’ll never have heard of unless you are also a curly/textured hair person :)

    7. High tail it*

      Yes to the gift card suggestions. Otherwise you run the risk of only catering to some people, with other people not being able to use what you’re providing.
      For example, I can’t insert tampons unless they have applicators, so most are useless to me. And because of allergies I can’t use perfumed products, which means most shampoos, conditioners and even sanitary towels are unusable to me.
      And that’s just me. Lots of people have squiggly preferences or needs.

    8. PollyQ*

      Thirding the idea of gift cards. These kinds of items are so personal that pre-purchasing them guarantees that in many cases they’ll only be OK, and in others, they won’t be usable at all and just be a waste of money.

    9. summer camp spouse*

      Thanks for the input, everyone! You’re totally right, gift cards would be best for the staff. I’m not sure how difficult that would be – at my company it is nearly impossible to give out gift cards, and they get taxed too – but I’ll try!

      Maybe a very informal setup could just be that my partner uses the company card to buy some of people’s necessities at the beginning of the summer when they all go to Walmart together.

      Thanks again for your input!

  66. Lourdes*

    Been waiting for this thread to vent that a recruiter has reached out to me twice to schedule just a short intro screen for a job. They email me, I give them availability and then crickets. I know this happens for a number of reasons, but I am curious if the third time will be the charm. It seems like so much for a 15 minute call, and always seems easier to me to just call me and get it over with.

  67. Cubicle monkey manager*

    Advice for encouraging my report to be more confident?

    The newest person on my team is doing a great job considering her experience level, but in almost all of our regular check ins apologizes for something or “jokes” about me wanting to fire her. I address it as it comes up and reassure her that she did exactly what I wanted her to do or (rarely) what she might think about doing differently. Yearly reviews are coming up though and I’d like to be more direct with her about this as a general pattern. How can I tell her to be more confident without sending her into another spiral of apologies? For those of you who have dealt with insecurity at work, what have your managers done (or what do you wish they’d done) that helped?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      On angle that you might want to approach this conversation from is professionalism. She can improve her professionalism by stopping the “I’m going to be fired” jokes. Framing in positive terms (“this change will make you look more professional” vs “these jokes make people think you are unprofessional”) may help, too.

    2. Kramerica Industries*

      I don’t know if this will help, but the one thing that sticks out for me was when someone more senior said “If you don’t advocate for yourself, who else is going to do it for you?”. It helped me reframe my mind that if I wasn’t going to be my biggest supporter, I couldn’t expect that anyone else would make a bigger effort to get me through the right doors. I needed to give others a reason to believe in me.

    3. High tail it*

      An early manager once sort of joked with me that she might need to enroll me on assertiveness training. It was only half joking. It stuck in my head and I looked up assertiveness online, read all about passivity Vs assertiveness Vs aggression, and started implementing the advice I got online. I quickly got assertive.
      So, maybe talk about confidence as if it’s simply a professional skill like any other? Maybe actually do organise assertiveness training?

      1. Cubicle monkey manager*

        That’s a good idea! The funny thing is, she’s beautifully assertive with our clients. It’s just with peers and managers that she struggles. Actual assertiveness training could be really helpful, though, and I think you’re right that official training could help her think about it as a professional skill rather than a personal issue.

  68. Kristine*

    For those of you who work directly with clients: how do you handle it when they start screaming at you? I work in community mental health, but I would appreciate any advice from anyone who works directly with clients. At my agency, we’re so understaffed, and can’t get people with serious and urgent mental health issues scheduled until 4-5 weeks after they call. Sometimes they will start screaming at us. Luckily my bosses are amazing and have given me carte blanche to just hang up on them. I’d rather not do that, though, and so I’d really appreciate any tips!!

    1. Fluffy Fish*

      Google “call center de-escalation” – there’s a bunch of techniques you can add to your repertoire.

      And thank you for your compassion – No one deserves to be screamed at and you would be absolutely justified in hanging up. But I appreciate your empathy for people who are seriously struggling and willingness to try to deescalate.

      1. Kristine*

        Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll definitely google that! And thank you–it’s hard but I really try my best to de-escalate when possible.

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          You didn’t ask this but its so important I wanted to add – please make sure you are doing things to take care of your own mental health and well being.

          Compassion fatigue is a huge thing and the more empathetic you are the more sensitive you are to it.

    2. Mojo021*

      My favorite response is to be silent, eventually they will stop yelling and ask if you’re still there. I always replied with a “Yes, I am still here, I am listening to you and understand your frustration” and then move on with the call.

    3. Glass half fullempty*

      There’s a story that Pema Chodron (American Buddhist nun) tells about practising Tonglen meditation… It’s a form of meditation that allows you to empathise with another person. The story is that a high school teacher was cornered by a parent, who was yelling at her because he disagreed with the fact that she disciplined his son. He was screaming and shouting, and she started doing Tonglen in her head. At some point, she spontaneously said, “You must really love your son”, and the parent burst into tears! And they sorted it from there.
      It feels a bit pompous to say, “maybe you should take up a form of Buddhist meditation” but hey, might be of interest.

    4. Nightengale*

      Hear them out
      Reflective listening
      Agree that the 4-5 week wait is too long and you are frustrated with it too
      Offer anything that can be done in the meantime if possible (free hotline? put on cancellation list?)

      I’m a doctor who works exclusively with neurodivergent children, many of whom have neurodivergent parents, and with a 6+ month wait list right now (average in my field but still of course too long and TPTB won’t consider adding a second provider to my practice right now for $$$ reasons.) I feel pretty strongly that we need to expect some level of this due to the population we serve and have a much higher threshold for hanging up, etc than say a for profit store.

  69. Elle Woods*

    Given it’s early February, is it reasonable to indicate to an employer you could start a job in late March? I know the hiring process can take weeks, if not months.

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Unless you’re in a field with wildly fast turnaround times, I can’t imagine it would be a problem.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I’ve generally discussed start dates after getting an offer, occasionally during the last round of interviews. So apply for jobs, go to interviews, and wait for the recruiter/hiring manager to raise the question of start date first.

      Seconding Kimmy Schmidt that this is highly likely to be a non-issue.

    3. jane's nemesis*

      Yeah, you’re totally fine – they might not even be making you an offer until mid-March, if the interview process is at all drawn out, in which case late March would be a totally normal start date.

    4. Pocket Mouse*

      I suspect if their hiring process is likely to go unusually fast or unusually slowly, they’ll ask you about whether your timeline fits theirs. If not, you can always ask about their hiring timeline (in general terms) and state your availability if there’s a discussion about it.

  70. exiting warehouse work*

    My brother is looking to get out of warehouse work and into something with higher wages and steadier hours. What ideas do you have? Do you know of a (free, reputable) career quiz?

    He’s got a high school diploma and about six years of work experience in retail and warehouses. School isn’t his jam. Some more details below. Thanks for any ideas you may have!

    As a kid he was INCREDIBLE at puzzles. Like, he was better at jigsaw puzzles than the rest of the family combined. He’s also good with people – I think he is pretty good at building rapport with strangers. With his friends, he’s generous (almost to a fault). He’s very small but strong.

    School isn’t his strong suit. He tried going to community college for welding but it didn’t work out. He also went to truck driving school and was doing great till he didn’t pass the practical test, and got discouraged.

    His work history (attendance and length of time at jobs) is spotty but improving; he’s so much more mature now than he was a few years ago.

    He’s especially interested in customer service or jobs that could be done remotely. I suggested IT tech support, but I’m not sure how much training is required. (Any input?) He was also looking into becoming a PCA but it sounds like it doesn’t pay any more than warehouse work (~$18/hr).

    Any ideas?

    1. Ashley*

      If they are open to job sites I would suggest going into the trades and looking at building control work in particular since he likes puzzles and you interact with the owner and other trades more.

    2. urguncle*

      Logistics (specifically supply chain logistics, like trucking deployment) might combine some of his interests with his background in warehousing. I will also note that my BIL is a warehouse manager who makes into the 6 figures. There’s definitely a path to advancement if he wants to pursue it. In general, there are two ways to move into what you want to do from where you are now: Experience only, which can take a long time and experience and education, which can also take a long time, but gets you a little further in a little less time. A good path might be to look at customer support for a logistics company, which gets him into the office portion of the company.
      Given he has trouble sticking to things like school, remote jobs might not be a good fit, even if they sound great. It sounds like he needs help to stay focused on something and not give up as soon as he hits a roadblock, of which there are many on remote IT and customer service jobs.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Seconded — my husband started out as a warehouse grunt and is now an IT-adjacent manager for their logistics system.

    3. Well...*

      IDK if I can help, but your brother’s career path is a lot like my BIL’s! (Same with his rapport-building and generosity) Welding also didn’t work out, and now he works in a warehouse. It’s doing a number on him physically, but his hours are finally consistent so he’s happy for now. He’s also a big time extrovert and he loves the environment and talking to people every day.

      One job BIL has tried but didn’t quite get: USPS. His warehouse experience helped, and the job has amazing benefits. There was a driving test, which I think BIL didn’t pass, but the problem seemed to be that it was more an overall stressful experience for him than it was driving specifically. That might be easier than truck driving? Something to look into maybe.

    4. Peanut Hamper*

      Good at building rapport with strangers? A good problem solver?

      Has he ever considered going into sales? Most of it is on-the-job training. And it’s adjacent to customer service.

      (I’m not sure what PCA is. A quick google search didn’t reveal much.)

      1. exiting warehouse work*

        Sales could be good! Thanks for the idea!

        PCA = Personal Care Assistant – helping an older or disabled person with household tasks. Kind of like Nursing Assistant. Maybe it’s a regional term!

    5. PassThePeasPlease*

      At the recommendation of another recent thread, I was recently researching the Johnson O’Connor aptitude test and it sounds like he might have a high proclivity for something they call “structural intelligence” (I think that was the name of it, there’s an e-book on their site that goes into depth on all the aptitudes they test and that was the first one). It lists jobs that might interest someone with that ability and could be a good place to start. The testing itself is a big investment but the e-book is free and available to read for anyone!

    6. Generic Name*

      Carpentry! As long as he’s willing to work hard and follow instructions, he can walk up to a job site (at least in the Denver metro area) and get hired on the spot. Zero experience or qualifications needed.

  71. ecnaseener*

    A bit of secondhand embarrassment for you all on this lovely Friday: This week, my grandboss (VP level) accidentally copied in a large internal e-list (everyone who belongs to or interacts with her department) on an email discussing how to announce her impending resignation. Oops! At least she had told her direct reports already.

    (I don’t have a question to go with this but I’ve never had a boss leave and I’m nervous! Too many horror stories on this site about new big bosses wreaking havoc lol)

    1. MissGirl*

      In my experience, most new managers are just different. Not better, not worse. You might find you have more camaraderie with someone but that doesn’t really affect your work on a day to day basis.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      I’d simply assume the “accidental leak” of the resignation was the plan for announcing it

  72. Turingtested*

    I’m a manager in the office of a manufacturing facility. One of my peers has many more years experience than I do but in a different department. “Lois” gives me feedback constantly, like 100x more than my actual boss. 50% of the time it’s helpful and 50% of the time it’s not. (Not helpful because of fundamental misunderstanding of my role not unhelpful because it annoys me.)

    I don’t want her to stop because like I say, half the time it helps. But I’m quite irritated by the frequency and having to figure out if it’s worth following.

    Is there a diplomatic way to say “Only give me feedback if you actually know what your talking about?”

    How do I get over being irritated? She’s clearly well meaning but sometimes rude in her approach.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Are there categories where the advice is more helpful vs less helpful? Something where you could say “Lois, I welcome your advice on [office politics/the expense reports/llama grooming] but I have my own ways of [ordering supplies/wrangling IT/painting teapots] so I don’t need advice about those things.”

      1. Turingtested*

        That’s a good idea! I think part of the problem is that Lois is prone to tears and I’m afraid to make her cry.

        1. kiwiii*

          I wonder if there’s a way to, when you get a bad piece of advice to matter-of-factly be like “oh, that won’t work because X, but that reminds me — the piece of advice you gave me on Y last week was SO helpful — i really value your feedback around [larger umbrella category Y is in].”

          between the quick transition off of “you don’t understand this thing” into praise and a refocus on the thing she really is good at, it might do the trick? may have to rinse, wash, repeat a few times

  73. Reali Tea*

    I just interviewed for a job with a three person panel who thought my qualifications were great but they had a bigger role for me available (currently occupied but the person is leaving soon). Has anyone had this happen? What ended up happening? Did they ever follow through? (I mean, a no is a no but, y’know…)

  74. MissGirl*

    How do you know you want to manage or will be good at it?

    I’m a senior analyst/solo contributor, but I’ve been bored lately so I just switched jobs. I’m hoping at my new company to start moving into more strategy-type work where I’m suggesting projects and driving that bigger conversation.

    An old acquaintance reached out to me about backfilling his position at a company that is going from completely outsourcing its data to bringing it in-house. The position would start at hiring vendors, working with engineering, doing a lot of PM work to hiring and growing multiple positions.

    The pay range is large from 10K less than I’m making to 30K more. Of course, I wouldn’t take the position unless I came in on the high side of the range. I’m rather introverted and get irritated when I have a lot of meetings and have thought management wasn’t for me. But I’m also getting bored and need a challenge, which my current company may provide (too early to say for sure). How do I know if this is in my wheelhouse? Or if it’s even something I’d like to do?

    1. Cubicle monkey manager*

      Honestly? Sometimes you don’t know til you try it. I moved into my first official manager role about a year and a half ago and have been surprised at how much I like it. Before taking the role I had been involved more informally in hiring, coaching, training, and capacity-balancing and knew I liked all of those. Forming relationships has definitely been one of the harder parts, as an introvert, but I also feel like I have more insight into what my introverted reports need than an extroverted manager would.

  75. Llama Zoomer*

    Whoa, anyone have thoughts about how Alison and the AAM community would respond to the most recent question in the New York Times Work Friend column: “My Co-Worker’s Baby Photo Gallery Put Me Over the Edge.”

    It sounds so innocent, until you get to the real issue… Oof.

    1. Turingtested*

      The letter writer seemed so mean spirited. Acne covered monstrosity is a really cruel way to describe anyone.

      She should’ve just put the damned pictures back.

      I wonder if she tends to behave badly and lie to get out of it or if something about babies genuinely triggers her.

      1. Not my real name*

        While she wasn’t kind, it’s pretty rude of coworker to cover the shared space with pictures of his kid.
        It’s not totally the same, but I used to have to cover for the receptionist and it was weird to look at all of her bible verses and what-not while I was trying to work.

        1. Tuesday*

          I don’t think it’s rude – it’s his workspace too, and the etiquette of personal items in shared workspaces can get weird. I think one photo would have been one of those “annoying but you have to let it go” things for the LW, but lots of pictures would give LW grounds for a friendly chat about it… if things had proceeded normally! (And to be honest, that chat would have been a better move than passive-aggressively taking them down without putting them back up every day.)

          1. Not my real name*

            There’s plenty of room for blame on both sides, but I lean toward put your personal stuff away at the end of the day in shared space. He’s essentially saying that it’s his space that she’s allowed to use.

            1. Turingtested*

              I’ve shared many offices with many photos and photo collages. Did I love seeing 15 pictures of my office mate and their SO? Absolutely not. But it helped my coworker get through the day and was easy enough to ignore. I think it’s one of those “spend your capital” situations. If it really bugs the person and their willing to have chilled relations to not see the pics ok. But most people choose to save those kind of battles for the big stuff.

    2. Tuesday*

      Oh my goodness! At first I had sympathy for the LW – obvious baby-hating aside, we’ve had similar letters here about being annoyed by personal items in shared workspaces and I’d probably be a little weirded out by staring at someone else’s family photos all day. I think a script like the one where the OP was finding religious quotes stuck on the shared computer would have worked. But wowza, it just got worse and worse!

    3. Maple Bar*

      It’s like the textbook definition of a hater. I would move the photos when I used the desk, too, but I wouldn’t be proactively spiteful at the guy for having a little piece of joy in his life. Calm down, sheeeesh

  76. Ocelot*

    I have had a little plug-in diffuser, lavender/vanilla fragrance, in my office for three years. My hypochondriac coworker has decided – she has also been at the company for three years – that she is having an allergic reaction to the smell. Every day after I leave and before she leaves, she closes my office door. It doesn’t make any sense. Why close up my office when you’re leaving for the day? – We leave at the same time, and btw she has NOT approached me about this, she’s just been passive-aggressively closing my office door and then LEAVING for the day. So, I come in daily going: “who keeps closing my office door?” It’s a signal to housekeeping not to clean. My garbage and recycling doens’t get removed. It’s a signal to the exterminator not to spray. I mean, what the…………..? Are there any more adults left in this world? You can’t ask me to “un-plug” to see if your cough gets better? Not to mention the FACT that we have suspended ceilings in the entire office – so sorry to say, closing my door solves nothing of her imaginary allergy. She’s been coughing her head off daily for the past year. It started right around the time she got her puppy. She coughs mostly in the mornings, and stops coughing usually within a few hours of getting here. Coincidence? I think not. If she were truly allergic to my plug-in, why would she get better throughout the day instead of getting worse? She just needs an excuse to mess with me.

    Also, I feel I’m being targeted because I am a disabled employee and she wants to be me. It started when she, who is responsible for re-ordering calendars every year, ordered calendars for everyone but me. I have metastatic breast cancer and I had a rough year last year. I believe my calendar wasn’t ordered because she thought/hoped I’d be dead by 2023. I had to ask for my 2023 calendar for the first time in 3 years.

    She’s also the person that replaced the Lysol spray in the restrooms with Glade – a very, very, perfumey, floral air freshener, which, btw, she has no allergic reaction to.

    Anyway – the plug-in is coming home with me today. I will close my own office door when I leave for the weekend. Lets see how long she keeps complaining about the smell in my office when there isn’t one.

    Sorry, I just needed to rant. I have chemo @ 6 am on Fridays before work and I’m a little cranky.

    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      I wonder how long you can go — with her complaining and you not saying that the diffuser is gone. Sounds like you have plenty of good reasons to be cranky.

    2. Bog Witch*

      I believe my calendar wasn’t ordered because she thought/hoped I’d be dead by 2023.

      I’m sorry, but this is such a huge leap that it really colors the rest of your post. Have you actually confirmed it was this coworker that keeps shutting your door? It’s happening after you leave and then you come in the next morning asking who keeps shutting your door, so I’m wondering if you actually know it’s her or are just speculating. If you do know it’s her, have you asked her point-blank to stop?

      Yes, if your office fragrances are bothering her, she should use her words and tell you. But if you search the archives here, you’ll see that scents in the office are pretty controversial in the first place. You may be less sensitive to it since it’s in your office every day, but the plug-in could be much stronger than you realize and if your door is open, could be carrying more and further into the rest of the office space without you knowing it.

      Also…people can and do develop allergies to things they’ve previously been fine with. Just because it started “around” the same time she got a dog doesn’t mean your fragrances aren’t triggering a reaction.

      Maybe this coworker really is as ridiculous as you make her out to be, but I think this idea that she wanted/expected you to be dead (!!) is really distorting your perceptions of her and her actions. I think it would be helpful to take a big step back from this situation and look at it more objectively, especially when this situation is pretty low-stakes, all things considered.

      1. to varying degrees*

        All of my allergies (non food) developed in adulthood and in the same environment I grew up in. Allergies can pop up out of nowhere (and lavender can be a real big trigger for some people).

      2. Anonny*

        This articulates my feelings about this comment.

        Ocelot, that is a huge leap and quite a serious accusation to make about a coworker on, quite frankly, not a lot of evidence. Your not receiving of a calendar could be many things: she genuinely forgot, she typed in the wrong amount, or there was a shipping mistake.

        It seems like there is a big communication issue between you two, and you are part of the problem as well. Yes, she should ask you to turn it off… but hear me out. Is it possible that your crankiness (which I TOTALLY get your reasoning for and am not denying you) is coming out at work and it is making her nervous because she doesn’t want to upset you more? You keep passively asking who shut your door instead of saying “Whoever is shutting my door, please stop. There have been a couple times my trash hasn’t been taken out. If I leave my door open when I leave for the day, it has to stay open.”

        I am very sorry that you are dealing with so much, and I hope you make a smooth, full recovery.

    3. Morgan Proctor*

      Well, I honestly think using a plug in diffuser at work is really inappropriate, regardless of your coworker’s real or imaginary allergy. Not everyone likes scented things. This isn’t a fringe opinion, there are letters on this very website about this fairly frequently. That’s why you see some employers add “scent-free workplace” to their job listings. It can be a trigger for asthma and migraines, and other people with invisible disabilities. It’s best you get rid of it.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      So much of this doesn’t make sense to me. You know she’s bothered by it but you wish she would say something if it bothers her… how do you know it bothers her if she hasn’t said anything? Your door gets closed AFTER you leave… how do you know it’s her? You don’t want your door closed… so you’re closing it yourself? Sorry, but this post makes both of you sound pretty unpleasant to work with.

  77. Captain Vegetable (Crunch Crunch Crunch)*

    I just finished out my two weeks notice, which was rife with complications, mainly from the weather and also, I had zero motivation to do anything… I am so relieved it’s over. Of course, now I have to finish packing for my move to another state and start my new job on Tuesday. Sigh. But for now, an avocado margarita to celebrate!

    1. Ocelot*

      Congratulations on surviving your two weeks and best of luck with your move. I just googled avocado margarita. WOW, that looks delicious! Enjoy!

  78. gigi*

    For people that work in academia, I have been waitlisted for a PhD program (my top choice program) and a professor told me I’m at the “very top of the waitlist” and he “wants to work with me to get me on the admitted list”. I’ve seen some advice floating around that I should write a “letter of continued interest” declaring that I want to go to the program, but I don’t really understand what a good letter would look like. I don’t have any new information to add to add to my application since I just submitted it in december. I feel like they know I’m interested since I applied and have been in touch with a professor (several interviews). I don’t want to annoy administrative staff or the committee, but I don’t want to miss an opportunity. Is this an established practice I need to participate in? I can only find outdated posts giving advice about this on other forums

    1. Nesprin*

      So a letter of continued interest will have: a statement reiterating that program is still your top choice, updated accomplishments (i.e. did you win an award lately, etc) and a note that you’ve been in contact with Professor and that she has indicated interest in having you in her program. This should be addressed to the admin person/admissions committee.

      Realistically, though, your best bet is to have professor advocate for you- they have much much more power in getting you a slot than you do. I would also suggest calling the admin person for the department and asking if winter/midyear admissions are a thing, or if there’s anything you can do to get up off the wait-list- winter semester admissions were a thing at my grad institution and how several waitlisted folks got in.

    2. gigi*

      Additional info I wasn’t thinking about above: I got waitlisted on Monday from a letter from the graduate advisor. Within 20 minutes, received a very kind email from the prof I interviewed with saying all the stuff about the top of the waitlist. I emailed back and asked if there was anything in particular he thought I should do to stay engaged with the department and he set up a meeting between me and the graduate academic advisor to discuss logistics of the program. He’s also offered to put me in touch with current students and asked me what other professors I’d like to potentially collaborate with so he can talk to them about possible side projects for me. In his words “These conversations are not something we generally offer to our waitlist. We are offering them to you because you are at the very top of our list and because I am so excited about your application.”. It would be overkill to follow the continued interest letter right? Or should I write a brief letter to the committee anyways?

      1. Nesprin*

        So, don’t spam them- i.e. don’t send them a note every week or even every month.

        But I’d call the dept admin now to ask about whether people move up off the wait-list often+ alternative strategies (i.e. winter admit etc).

        In a 2 weeks or so, send them a letter reiterating how you want to join the program, referencing how you’ve been engaging with prof X, how excited you are about dept feature Y and how you’ve recently done good thing Z would go far.

  79. Fancy Pants*

    How do you guys decide when to buy new clothes for work?

    When I started my first job after college, I bought 10 dress shirts and two pairs of black dress pants. I’ve been wearing the same shirts and pants to my various jobs for the past decade. (I also wear undershirts to protect the dress shirts from sweat/deodorant stains, which I have replaced several times.) It’s kind of like a “daily uniform” because I don’t have to put any thought into what I’m wearing. I’m a woman, but no one’s ever said anything about my lack of variety.

    Anyway, I randomly looked up the brand of the shirts I have and it was discontinued, but I saw some for fairly cheap prices on PoshMark. I was thinking of buying some because I’m bored of wearing the same 10 shirts.

    But I’ve also been decluttering the past few years, so I’m like, do I really *need* more work clothes when the stuff I have is still technically fine? If I buy more, I should probably get rid of some of the old shirts (which would be hard to do now that I know they’re discontinued!). And I’m job hunting–what if I buy new shirts and end up with a job where I can work from home part of the time?

    So I was just wondering what other people’s thought processes are for work clothes.

    1. BellyButton*

      You are much more practical than I am! I am of the “OOO that looks nice, I want to wear that” camp of clothes buying.

      For your current wardrobe, would it make sense to add a couple of cardigans or blazers to spice it up, instead of replacing your current shirts? Or adding a skirt, or different shoes?

    2. summer camp spouse*

      I love you formula!

      My rules for work clothes are: must fit me, not look worn/ have holes/ etc, and must not look wildly outdated. I wear button up shirts and styles don’t really change there.

      Anyway, are your shirts looking worn? Any thin spots or stains?

      Might be worthwhile to snag a few extras, but I bet they’ll be available secondhand for years to come either way.

    3. Dark Macadamia*

      Would it help to sort out a few by season? Like put away the more autumn/winter colors or prints for now and buy a couple new (to you) ones that are good for spring/summer or year-round. Then you can still buy more when you come across them, not feel wasteful getting rid of shirts that could still be used, but you’re still getting some rotation/variety and not feeling like your closet is full of stuff you don’t wear.

    4. Fluffy Fish*

      You know its perfectly fine to want something new. If you have to wear something frequently why does the only marker of replacement have to be wear or fit? Enjoying what you have to wear is just as valid.

      Don’t want to add clutter – do a one in one out. And donating your perfectly serviceable in good condition items to charity means they will continue to have life.

    5. to varying degrees*

      I mean, if I want new shirts, I just get new shirts. If you want to change it, go for it. I buy stuff all the time from Poshmark and you can’t get some good deals.

    6. fine tipped pen aficionado*

      I love fashion so I might not have the most comparable perspective, but I really enjoy putting together new outfits and changing my look. Every season I buy new (to me) clothes and donate an equivalent number of pieces. I have very, very limited storage so if I get something new I have to give up something old.

      If it would make you happy to change out some of those old shirts, I would do it! Donate the old ones or turn them into rags. But if it wouldn’t bring you any happiness and you are just feeling like it’s something you’re supposed to want or do, there’s no need!

    7. Kramerica Industries*

      Similar boat here! I tend to revisit my work clothes rotation when I start a new role (even within the same company), which in my industry is every 2-3 years. There have been years where I haven’t changed a thing because the environment was more relaxed. Then I’ve had roles that were meeting-heavy, so I wanted a blazer/pant combo that would help me feel the most confident. As I get older, I also wanted to update my wardrobe to be less H&M (the work pants just aren’t the most comfortable) and more tailored to my body.

  80. Job Searching*

    I am currently searching for instructional design positions. I have interviewed several places and a few places have been excited about me, but ultimately selected someone else specifically because I lack experience with Articulate Storyline. I would like my next position to use Storyline so that I have a solid history of using it under my belt, but first I need to convince someone to give me a chance. My current workplace just obtained Articulate Rise and that was enough of a lift that I don’t see them getting Storyline in the near future. I am planning to use Storyline’s 30-day free trial to create a small module that would showcase my ability to use the tool’s transition and design elements but mainly focus on the interactive elements, which personally are the most interesting parts of the tool to me and seem like the main reason to use it over other tools. It would be more of an example module than a full course, although I’m planning to use the same subject as a course I’ve already created in Rise. Instructional designers and anyone who hires instructional designers, would an example like that be sufficient or is more long-term experience with Storyline important? Am I needing to prove just that I can use the tool (it does seem more complicated than other authoring tools I’ve used) or do I need to show more? Has anyone been in a similar situation and how did it go?

    1. BellyButton*

      It would absolutely be a benefit for the hiring manager to see it. You can also say something like “While in my current role we do not use Storyline I have been using it on my own to make sure my skills are what my next role would require.” This also shows that you take your career path and development seriously and are willing to stay current and up to date.

      Good luck!

    2. Lianna*

      You can’t purchase Rise and Storyline separately, if your company has Rise, they have storyline as well. If you have an account to Rise, sign in and download the storyline package to install. Storyline only works in windows so will not run on mac or linux.

      I’m a lead instructional designer for a f500 tech company. We use storyline, rise, adobe cc, and other design and development tools. It heavily depends on the company that is hiring but storyline is easy to learn and only a tool, when I was interviewing candidates, I was more interested in their portfolio, their knowledge of learning theory, their experience and understanding of design concepts and ux/ui, and their planning, designing, and development process.

      Storyline is just a tool but it’s an industry standard and hiring an instructional designer that doesn’t know how to use storyline would be akin to hiring a taxi driver that has never driven a car before. I would highly recommend learning it.

  81. Mean Professor*

    I’d like some perspective from those of you in higher education.

    I am a professional working as an adjunct professor (in addition to my regular job). I’ve been doing it mostly because I feel strongly about developing new professionals in my field, but also to gain experience for a possible move to teaching as I wind down my career.

    Last week I was called into the Dean’s office regarding a student complaint. The student complained to another professor that I hurt their feelings them when I reminded them of uniform requirements (we are in a clinical field) and when I corrected them regarding an error they were about to make in a clinical setting.

    I think I took the feedback well, asking for coaching from the dean about how to deliver constructive criticism more effectively, but the recommendation was that I apologize to the student. I can do that, but is this how things are now? I would never have made a complaint that a professor hurt my feelings when I was a student. I would have ranted to my friends and maybe cried quietly to myself, but I would have shown up to class the next day with a smile on my face. I would never have complained to another professor. What’s more, I don’t think any of my professors would have offered me any sympathy, let alone pass the complaint on to the dean.

    I’ll figure out how to apologize for coming across as too brusque, but I don’t want to have to walk on eggshells for fear of hurting feelings. Though I am working on trying to be more approachable to students. (To be fair, I’m not really warm and fuzzy and my daughter told me she would be terrified of me if I were her professor.)

    I guess my question is whether this is normal, and I just need to figure out how to provide criticism more effectively or is this just coddling? My thought is this student will struggle as a professional in my field if something like this hurts their feelings.

    1. Nesprin*

      Students vary a ton- from outstanding to not great, and providing feedback effectively is always a good thing, and your dean should have some level of insight to critique fairness, though deans also vary from outstanding to not great as well. If your daughter is saying that you’re not warm and fuzzy that’s a great datapoint suggesting you may need to soften.

      You will know better than us whether your criticism was fair or not, but I’d suggest assuming that the student was right and figuring out how to apologize if so.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Just apologize because the dean told you to, implement the dean’s feedback on how to deliver criticism and move on. You cannot change how this one student reacts, speculating on their career is kinda rough.

    3. Fluffy Fish*

      “I’ll figure out how to apologize for coming across as too brusque, but I don’t want to have to walk on eggshells for fear of hurting feelings. Though I am working on trying to be more approachable to students. (To be fair, I’m not really warm and fuzzy and my daughter told me she would be terrified of me if I were her professor.)”

      To be honest it sounds like you missed the point – you are focusing on the student being upset about what you said, but based on what your wrote it seems that the student was upset by how you said it.

      Yes if you are delivering something valid but saying it like a jerk you do indeed have to apologize and it absolutely should be normal. This may sound harsh but professors have long been able to get away with treating students like crap and there’s definitely a movement among students pushing back. They’re not paying thousands to be verbally abused. It’s no different that a boss being a jerk to their staff. In a position of power you have even more of an obligation to uplift not beat down.

      People should not have to toughen up and take bad behavior. The people behaving poorly should be the ones to change.

      There’s also something to be said for when someone tells you you hurt them to apologize for it.

      In addition to the apology for the impact of what you said on the student, maybe try asking her what kind of feedback delivery helps her learn the best? Students are all individuals but learning different ways to approach things means you can be a better teacher.

      All that said, I obviously wasn’t there so I don’t know what happened. Maybe the student is wildly out of touch. There’s still an opportunity for an apology and a discussion on critical feedback.

    4. Cyndi*

      If professors treated you so harshly when you were a student that it drove you to tears, that’s terrible and I’m very sorry it happened. It shouldn’t have been acceptable then. But it’s also not okay to perpetuate it by treating your own students harshly and expecting them to quietly put up with it.

      As other people said, we don’t know how you presented your feedback to this student in particular, so we can’t judge that! But I think it’s worth reconsidering the ideas that 1) because you suffered through something, younger generations should too 2) it’s “coddling” for students to actually ask a third party for help, instead of grinning and bearing it.

      1. linger*

        (* OP seems to have replied to your comment, but their reply nested under the next subject thread instead, so you may not have seen it.)

    5. ILoveCoffee*

      Not knowing what you said or how you said it it’s hard to say if an apology is truly necessary. Today’s students are more willing to make formal complaints than students of the past, which is good and bad. Good because it helps call attention to issues that need to be addressed and bad because some students lodge non-sensical complaints. The hope is that the dean will be able to distinguish between reasonable and unreasonable complaints.

      This is a good wake up call for you to examine your teaching. I (she/her) am also not warm and fuzzy but I’ve found ways to make sure I am approachable. Also, it’s generally unwise to call students out / brusquely correct them in class. I realize your field isn’t a warm and fuzzy one and some of these students won’t be able to cut it, but overall higher ed is becoming more responsive to student feelings (which I believe is mostly good, but in some cases is going wayyy tooo far)

    6. teaandcookies*

      After apologizing, can you ask the student how they would have preferred to receive the feedback, or would prefer to in future? That might actually help them think about it, too, and be sort of a learning experience for everyone.
      I think the culture is changing, both in academia and in workplaces, so what this will look like for a professional in the field will change too. I feel like right now things are recalibrating, so it might swing too far in the other direction at times but I see it as a healthy part of the process of cultural change in a good direction overall.

    7. A Reader*

      I was an adjunct instructor for almost 20 years and in that time student attitudes, manners, and standards of behavior devolved. The authority in the classroom resides with the professor, not the students. Ignore this student.

  82. Is it Friday yet?*

    Does anyone know (or have theories) behind the US Dept of Labor’s rules on mandatory work travel and what counts as “work time”? Specifically, why does travel outside of your typical 9-5 hours or overnight travel not count as work, even though you are required to go?

    My org is heading off-site next week and sent around the hours you’re allowed to count as “work”, and many people are required to travel over the weekend. Only curiousity. I and my teammates who were chatting about it are exempt and it doesn’t matter one way or another. But it does incentivize taking work days to travel, when you have the option, instead of losing your weekend.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I suspect some of this is just bureaucratic inertia. Travel used to be glamorous and fun! You got to ride on a (gasp) airplane and enjoy free drinks!

    2. Mean Professor*

      I like your advice about asking the student how they prefer to receive feedback. Part of what I need to do is find the balance between holding students to standards and taking themselves and the profession seriously, and recognizing that they are still developing and require delicacy on how feedback is given.

      I also just want to say, I’m not trying to be a jerk to students because I was treated poorly when I was a student. It’s unintentional and has to do more my very direct way of communicating. Interestingly, it is also not a criticism I’ve had in my professional role up to this point.

  83. fine tipped pen aficionado*

    Does anyone have any tips or resources on like… professional etiquette? I know this can vary from place to place, but we are trying to set some clear standards/expectations for the very first time so I have no documentation or structure to build on.

    We’re trying to hold a meeting and publish some documentation of what is and isn’t okay in meetings with external customers vs internal, what communication channels and styles are expected, etc. Has anyone had any success with something like this in the past? Any wisdom to share?

    1. blood orange*

      It sounds like you’re facing a similar challenge to something I am working on. A large part of our workforce is early in their career (hospitality). Their lack of professional etiquette really starts to show, or just become more critical to correct, when they are promoted into leadership positions. Since we really like to promote from within, and training/development is important to us, I’ve been working on building resources to help our staff grow in this skill. It’s not just the early-career staff either; we also have mid-career managers who were just never taught those skills, and they don’t come from an office environment so they didn’t have a lot of opportunity to pick it up on the job.

      I’ve just worked really hard at curating resources, and building custom training materials which we deliver in a group training setting. For the “team lead” level staff (which is typically their first leadership position), it’s a lot of mentorship, feedback, and on-the-job activities, and also some online resources (mindtools.com was a good starting point for me). For our management level staff, it’s mentorship, coaching, online resources, and I curated some books/e-books and podcasts.

      The self-led resources are great, but I’ve found group learning and coaching to be the most effective. Even just a 2 hour seminar where you go over standards, and allow discussion between more experienced and less experienced team members goes a long way. I’ve also given them learning assignments after those sessions, with direction to have their manager get them back together in a smaller group with a facilitator guide to keep the discussion/learning going.

      Good luck!

      1. fine tipped pen aficionado*

        Thank you!!!!! We’re having a reverse issue, where staff who have been here the longest are the most out of touch with professional expectations (that’s government baby!) regardless of their age. But we’re in a transition period with fresh leadership and they want to take this opportunity to finally set some expectations, and hopefully guide our staff away from airing grievances with their managers in meetings with our community partners.

        Really appreciate you sharing your experience. :)

  84. WorkFromHomerSimpson*

    Anyone have advice or experience with implementing a kind of job rotation initiative?

    I just moved up to manager of a department of about 35 people. One problem we have is that we’re broken down into small teams (5-8 people each) with a lead for each team, and the teams tend to be a bit siloed in their work and how they do it. Each team is completing the same types of work, but for different clients, and the leads are given a lot of freedom to run their teams. That means our less experienced employees on each team get exposed to different things depending on which team they’re assigned to. There is some resource sharing across teams, but what tends to happen is that a lead will grab onto a promising young employee and train them to do things just how they like, and then they don’t like to share that person unless pressured to do so. I see a few young employees getting pigeonholed into certain tasks and not being exposed to others, which may hurt their careers long-term and also make it difficult for our department to adjust when new work comes along.

    We’re already working on addressing part of this by developing a training curriculum that all new hires will go through. However, there will still be a large amount of on-the-job training that we can’t avoid. I’ve been pondering implementing something like a small-scale job rotation plan for new hires, where they would spend a few months on each team before being assigned a “permanent” (not necessarily forever permanent but long-term) role on one of the teams. However, I suspect there will be some pushback about this from the team leads and possibly the new hires, since it does push them a bit out of their current comfortable mode operating. I’m looking for some insight from folks who have been through a program like this or implemented one in their workplace. What went well and what didn’t go so well? Any advice at all would be welcome!

    1. WorkFromHomerSimpson*

      Adding a thought for clarification – this job rotation would apply to all new hires going forward, but I’d also like to include a few hires from the past 1-2 years to help get them broken out of their silos. That might be hardest of all since they have already been trained in certain ways and gotten comfy in their roles. I don’t want to just upend their work for the heck of it, but I do think it is important for their development. Do I make it optional (but highly encouraged) for those folks? Do I find some other approach for those who have been around for a little while?

    2. Qwerty*

      Hello! I used to have program like this for college grads. It works best for entry level employees and in situations like yours where the teams are very similar. We were hiring college grads so they all started on the same date as a class of trainees. Then it was a 7month schedule where they rotated between 3 teams. You can have more than 3 team participate – each trainee doesn’t need to go to each team, but you want them to get variety to maximize the trainee and showcase their skills/aptitude.

      1 month onboarding time where they were a team of trainees with a starter project. We had industry specific training during this time.

      2 month – Rotation 1
      2 month – Rotation 2
      2 month – Rotation 3

      Graduation Day*! Trainees, mentors, and managers go out for a happy hour and get promoted to Junior Developer. Yay! The previous year’s trainee class would usually come too even if they weren’t mentors.

      How to assign teams. Near the end of the last rotation, person running trainee program talks to each trainee to find out what their team preference is or what duties they prefer. Maybe they love writing reports and don’t care which team. Maybe they really want to do anything for the Chocolate Teapot team. Each manager (confidentially) ranks trainees in order that they want them on the team. Manager wishes, trainee wishes, and team need are then taken into account to determine where people end up.

      One thing I loved about this system was I was great at training but my team never had an opening. So we’d get a trainee every rotation even though no landed on our team. Plus we did the boring stuff that taught good fundamentals but none of the trainees wanted to be assigned our team anyway but they loved the brief exposure. Everyone was happy.

      *Occasionally someone would not work out and would be let go at the end of the rotation system. This is known before the team-assigning stuff and is for a truly poor fit, not because someone is picked last. No matter how poorly they performed, they were safe until the end of the 7month program because maybe they were incompatible with rotations 1&2 but did great on the third team. (this only happened once every 3-4yrs)

      1. Qwerty*

        This system wouldn’t work well for experienced hires though. When I join a company, I want to know who my manager and my team are and what I’ll be working on. Those are major factors in a job.

        For an experienced hire, I’d probably do something like
        3-6months – Regularly assigned “home” team
        2 months – Cross-training team
        Repeat above as needed to work through the teams that they need exposure to. Make sure performance reviews fall solidly in the time on “home” team.

        1. WorkFromHomerSimpson*

          Thanks for the responses! I like the idea of a couple months of cross training for experienced hires without going into the full rotation.

          Our department isn’t big enough/doesn’t hire enough for it to be feasible to have whole classes of new grad hires like you describe. We probably only average 1-2 new hires a year, although we’re expecting some growth this year and might have 3-5 new hires. Seems like a lot of rotation programs have classes like these, which I think provides a sense of community to the new hires even when they’re being moved around on teams. I’m wondering how we provide the new hire with some grounding/common connections when they might be the only one? We do assign a “sponsor” for onboarding who serves as something of a mentor. Maybe we can expand that sponsor role a bit to ensure the new hire doesn’t feel all alone or adrift in a sea of changing faces. Hmm. Good food for thought here.

          1. Qwerty*

            Yes to mentors! Usually I give any new person on a team a mentor to help with onboarding. Maybe the “sponsor” is their overall person for consistency as they rotate through the teams and then they have in rotation-specific mentor that they learn the work from?

            You mentioned also wanting to convince existing employees to go through this cross-training – maybe make a checklist and have some certificate you get for completing it? Give the program a name and people who finish all the steps become ABC alumni. It can make them feel a little more invested in the people who go through the rotation after them. Usually our former trainees would volunteer to become mentors (need to have some minimum level of experience at the company or team to make them effective as mentors) – it inspired comraderie even years after people were out of the program.

            Now I’m super nostalgic…I loved that job…

  85. Kayem*

    Payroll type question:

    A family member (Jane) started a new job earlier this year at a smaller business. The employer classified Jane as an independent contractor and Jane filled out a W9 upon starting. However, it turns out Jane was really not an independent contractor, as she had a set schedule, had to work in the office, was paid hourly on the same payroll schedule, and a host other things that didn’t pass the test for an IC.

    Jane uncovered a lot of fraud going on at the employer and when they started “misplacing” her paychecks*, she decided that was one red flag too many and started looking for another job**. She eventually took an offer elsewhere.

    Jane just received a W2 from this employer. However, they classified her as an independent contractor, so she should have gotten a 1099. She doesn’t know what to do when it comes time for her taxes next year. She says she filled out the W9, not a W4. Should she get her former employer to fix it to a 1099 or just leave it alone and use it as a W2?

    My OldJob once got in trouble for not keeping W4s on file and tried to hide it by asking employees to “recertify” by filling out new ones, so between that experience and Jane’s experience with this employer, I’m leaning towards it being intentional rather than honest mistake. Though if they were trying to avoid payroll taxes, why send a W2? Maybe someone called them on it after Jane left, I don’t know.

    —

    *Sent to an unknown account to an account # not even close to Jane’s, which turned out to be one of the employer’s bank accounts at a totally different bank in another state. Employer blamed Jane’s bank, told her she’d have to wait for her bank to fix it, refused to issue a counter check, even though if it was a mistaken transaction, it would have bounced back to employer’s payroll account, and even left early so Jane could not push back on it. Jane did not get her paycheck until her last day.

    **When she quit this job, she had to do it over the office group text because the people in charge kept leaving early to avoid meeting with her about her missing paycheck. Then her employer responded by lecturing her about her lack of professionalism and she was required to give two weeks’ notice, to which I reminded Jane that they were the ones who classified her as an IC so no, she doesn’t, also this is a right to work state.

    1. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Escalate to the IRS. They have whole groups of staff specifically on call for dealing with this exact sort of tax for chicanery.

      1. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

        Agree. She’s not going to use these clowns for a reference anyway.

  86. MelancholyMeandering*

    I work at a state university. Our building is old and quirky, which honestly I love. The thing I do not love? The utter lack of custodial services. At the university, custodial is supposed to take care of floors, trash, recycling, and bathrooms. The custodial team for our building… does not do that. They have to be reminded constantly to do the bare minimum (like taking out trash), and I’ve never seen them take an actual mop to our floors. They clean the bathrooms… not often enough, I don’t want to think about it. Basically, everything is gross!!! I get complaints from students, faculty, and staff constantly.

    We’ve put in several complaints with the custodial management, have had times of brief improvement, but overall it remains dirty in the building and the cumulative grime is just nasty. I understand that custodial is probably not the most fun job, and that they have high turnover. But other buildings on campus are clean, so I know it’s possible for it to be better.

    Do you have any suggestions for actions I could take? It’s got to be a liability to have such nastiness, right? Can custodial be paid more so there is less turnover and more professionalism? Who do we reach out to next?

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      I think at this point, since you’ve put in several requests and not seen any improvement, I’d escalate to your operations and building services people (assuming your custodial services are not contracted out – if they are, I’d contact the contractor directly and whoever handles that contract on your side). It may also be worth it to ask some of those deans who are complaining to help you; at my university, building services was way more likely to listen to a Dean than to our building manager.

  87. Nonimouse*

    TLDR: I’m thinking of transferring because of my new boss, should I talk to my grandboss first?

    I’m an early career high performer at my company, and I’m really trying to build my skills and grow within my org, something my grand boss has always been supportive of. I recently got a new supervisor, and in my last 1:1 I told him about the skills I’m trying to grow. His response was “I’d encourage you to look at this job as a paycheck so you aren’t disappointed.” I thought this was weird and demotivating. Is this a normal thing to say?

    New boss has also started some other things I’m not thrilled about, like a lot of personal chatter and venting on the group chat (maybe I’m stuffy, but I just don’t want to weigh in on my boss’s kid’s kindergarten application). I wouldn’t mind so much if it were occasional, but this kind of chatter takes up 2-3 hours a day, and it happens on the same chat we use for work stuff so I can’t just mute it.

    I’ve gotten a few offers to transfer to other teams within my org. I really loved my job before this new supervisor came and had no interest in transferring, but now I’m reconsidering. The downside to transferring is that I’d no longer be working with my grandboss, who’s been great. Is it worth talking to my grandboss before I leave? Am I being unreasonable about this?

    2. BellyButton*

      Do you have a learning development or talent development department in your company? In my last role in talent development employees could reach out directly to me to help coach them and find them the skill development they wanted or needed and did not have to go through their manager for any type of approval.

      I would also talk to your grandboss about your development and career path.

    3. ferrina*

      Could you grab coffee with Grandboss, or find some other excuse to have a skip-level meeting? I would mention the stuff New Boss is doing, but not like it’s something reportable.

      If you talk to your Grandboss, make sure you mentally sort out Issues from Annoyances. When you lump them all together, it’s harder for the actual issues to stand out (I learned that one the hard way). If your boss is blocking professional development/skill building opportunities, this is an Issue. The paycheck remark and other venting is a Minor Issue- this would make me coach a manager, not necessarily take greater action. The personal chatter is an Annoyance- some teams/people are more social like that (assuming it’s not oversharing inappropriate information, and is innocuous stuff like “this brand of coffee is great! my kid’s favorite game is Candy Land”). Unless it’s impacting your ability to do your job, this might just be a personality clash (from your description, I don’t think I’d enjoy working with your boss either).

      I suspect there is more about your boss that you haven’t written here. I definitely encourage you to write yourself a list (at home or elsewhere boss will never be) and figure out what are Issues and what are Annoyances. Focus on the Issues.
      But if you don’t want to go through the work, you have my blessing to just transfer without saying anything.

  88. Nervous New Grad*

    This might be a bit of a weird question – but how should I navigate attending a college career fair as an alumni? I graduated nearly two years ago now and I was laid off from my job at the end of last year. I still keep in touch with communities from my alma mater and I have a good relationship with the organizer of the upcoming career fair for my major’s department. Since I was laid off and am still looking for a new position, I asked him about the possibility of attending and he said alumni are more than welcome to do so and helped me RSVP.
    Now that I’m thinking about it though I’m a little nervous. Will it look weird to the employers there to introduce myself as an alum? How do I go about this? (And on the unlikely but still slightly possible chance my now former employer is there, since they originally hired me from such a career fair, how awkward would that be?!)

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      IMO this isn’t weird. I’ve attended some of these fairs on the recruitment side, and we occasionally meet recent alumni as well as college seniors. If anything, the alumni are more memorable because they’ve (1) obviously made a special effort to attend and (2) often have a little experience, which makes them more competitive for certain roles than college seniors. But YMMV depending on field/roles.

    2. BellyButton*

      I don’t think you need to worry. We consider anyone less than 5 yrs graduated to be an “early professional” and wouldn’t think twice about seeing someone 2 yrs out at a career fair.

    3. Alice*

      I think you will fit right in. And if the former employer is there, I think it’s no problem. If you had been fired, I might say, skip their table. But you were laid off! If you were interested in working there again, and if they are at the fair, I’d say it’s normal to visit their table for a chat, even: “I really liked working at X and I’d love to come back if there are openings in X.”
      Good luck!

  89. Petirrojo*

    If all goes well, my spouse will be immigrating from a Spanish-speaking country around March, and since I’m still a grad student, I have no idea how to set her up for success to find a job (ideally administrative, but flexible) quickly upon her arrival. She’s worked for several years very successfully at one company in her hometown, but her bosses don’t speak English to be able to give her a recommendation very easily. And then I just don’t really know what else we should be thinking about! Any tips from people who’ve immigrated while still in relatively early, but not just beginning, career stages, or from spouses of marriage visa immigrants, about what we should be thinking about? Thank you!

    1. ferrina*

      I’ve got no personal experience with immigration, so no tips for you there (hoping someone else will chime in!)

      As a hiring manager, the references are something that I could work around. When it gets to that stage, you can just let the hiring manager/HR know that the references speak Spanish, not English. From there, I (hiring manager) would be able to track down someone who speaks Spanish well enough to conduct the reference call (everywhere I’ve worked in the U.S. has had someone who speaks Spanish well enough to do this- usually someone who is fluent). If it becomes a problem, you could look into temping- they go through so many candidates that they usually don’t care much about references.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      It seems to me this is a situation where a letter of reference might be handy? It could be in Spanish, but having it might help in this situation. I agree that it shouldn’t be impossible to find a Spanish speaking person to do a reference, as Ferrina mentioned.

      1. lia*

        Yes, you can get certified translations of things like letters of reference and transcripts – perhaps her Spanish-speaking references could write a letter for translation and sharing as a starting point.

    3. just a random teacher*

      Not quite what you asked, but I’d suggest seeking out positions where being bilingual (assuming that your spouse also is fluent in English/whatever the most common language in your area is) is a particularly valuable skill. Those offices are more likely to go the extra mile for a candidate whose main obstacle is “references don’t speak English” and are also more likely to have an idea about how to have a conversation with someone in Spanish (either by including a translator or having another Spanish speaker conduct the reference check).

      If your spouse is at all interested in working in a school, in my area we will bend over backwards to hire fluent Spanish speakers for both teaching and non-teaching positions! (Non-teaching could be secretarial/receptionist type positions or working-with-students type positions.) Having references in Spanish would not be an issue at all (it would be seen as a good sign that the person applying Actually Speaks Spanish rather than Took Spanish Classes), we’d just have one of the other bilingual staff on the call to either translate or check the references themselves depending on whether there was someone who could fully conduct the reference check in Spanish.

  90. Nervous New Grad*

    I hope it’s okay to ask a second question that I just remembered! When I was laid off, I was told to expect shipping materials soon to return my company equipment (work computer etc).
    It’s now been 2 months and I have not received anything. I should…just email them right? The amount of time passed might be awkward and as my parents pointed out, I don’t owe them anything and they’d probably reach out if they really wanted it back, but this work computer is literally just sitting on my shelf taking up space at this point and I don’t really want to keep it around.

    1. BellyButton*

      Yes, email them and ask for the shipping information. At some point someone is going to take inventory and then reach out, it is better to get it back to them sooner rather than later.

      1. The Person from the Resume*

        Yes, because at some point they will likely realize you still have it and want you to return it. Send the email to get it taken care of now so it’s not taking up space in your house.

    2. Tuesday*

      Honestly 2 months is not an awkward amount of time for a company without an immediate use for the computer – it just means it’s not urgent to them. But you will have to send it back eventually so I’d send them an email to follow up.

    3. Annony*

      I think two months seems like a perfectly reasonable time to follow up. Just say that you were told to expect the shipping materials but never received them and ask about their timeline. Either it got lost in the mail or they dropped the ball. None of it reflects on you.

    4. Qwerty*

      Email them! They might not know that you didn’t receive a box. You likely signed something at the start or end of your employment promising to give back all work equipment, so you need documentation of trying to give it back to them. You do owe them that computer back and don’t want them realizing in 6months that they don’t have it.

      Send a friendly follow up. If you don’t get anything, send another one two weeks later

    5. Waily*

      You do owe them something: you owe them their equipment back. Ideally, they would be taking the lead in getting it from you. But they are not, so CALL them. It’s past time for email.

  91. Co-Brainstorming?*

    Does anyone have examples of Team Brainstorming Sessions that were successful? The only time this has ever been valuable in my world is when it is facilitated by someone with expertise in such sessions. However, so often I find people want to sit and brainstorm with me. Never has it been a focused brainstorming. Rather it is always a weird contrived meeting where absolutely nothing was accomplished. A man on a sub-committee I liaise frequently wants to schedule “brainstorming sessions” with me and I’ve so far rejected all attempts. I’ve asked him to please send me something, anything to guide our brainstorming sessions (are we talking finding grants or funding? Is this about policy? Or committee assignments?) Nope, he just wants to come in and brainstorm with me on all things. My boss is the same way. He asks if he can come in and brainstorm with me which is him staring out the window while I look at him in silence. WHY?

    1. BellyButton*

      Oh good lord. Kill. Me. Now. This is so weird.

      I facilitate strategy and brainstorming sessions all the time, but this isn’t what they are doing. I think they just want to think out loud. They are asking YOU to join with no defined outcome. I guess with your boss if he asks you to do it you could come in with an issue that needs to be resolved and sort of jump start the direction??

    2. Angstrom*

      Look up “affinity diagram” for ideas on running a constructive brainstorming session. I have seen brainstorming be useful as part of a structured problem-solving process such as Six Sigma or 8D. Two people bouncing ideas off each other can be useful IF there’s a clear problem statement and they stay focused.

    3. Temperance*

      I do these a lot, but we always, at a minimum, have a topic to start from. Sometimes this will jump to a related (or unrelated) topic, but it’s after actual work has started.

    4. Cheezmouser*

      Brainstorming doesn’t mean unstructured free-for-all. At my work, a brainstorming session requires a lot of advance preparation, such as:

      -identifying the goal and deliverables of the brainstorming session (i.e. develop a strategic roadmap? create a prioritization list? find solutions to a problem?)
      -determining roles (i.e. who is taking notes? who is facilitating the discussion? who will be implementing any outcomes?)
      -sending read-aheads if necessary (i.e. notes from past meetings, a draft proposal, background info, historical context, past results, etc.)
      -determining structure for the brainstorming (i.e. gallery walk? open discussion questions? affinity diagram?) Question prompts are usually identified and sent in advance as part of the meeting invite.

      All of the above is usually done by whoever is hosting/requesting the brainstorming session, not by the participants. The participants’ role is to come prepared to contribute by reviewing any read-aheads.

      It sounds like these people are just wasting your time. You might want to consider gently pushing back with “I’d be happy to engage in a brainstorming session. Please send the agenda, deliverables, discussion questions, and any background materials in the meeting invite so that I may come prepared.” If they respond with “I just want to brainstorm,” you might respond with “I find that I’m able to contribute the most when I have some context and can come prepared. Please send the agenda, deliverables, discussion questions, and any background materials in the meeting invite” or “Sure, why don’t you send me your initial proposal/background notes/etc so we have something to start from. We can schedule a brainstorming sessions once I’ve had a chance to review.” Rinse, lather, repeat until they either do the groundwork or stop wasting your time.

      The point is to make *them* invest time and energy into the brainstorming session. If they have a legitimate need for brainstorming, then they should do the advance work required to make the brainstorming session successful. If they don’t have a legitimate need and just like having you around as a sounding board, then the requirement for advance work before you accept a brainstorming session will hopefully deter them.

      [Side note: by any chance are you a young(er) female employee? Do they do this with any other employees, especially male employees?]

      1. Co-Brainstorming?*

        I’m mid-thirties and female and these are men. Boss has only women working for him and we are his surrogate-everything. Mom, wife, personal assistant, executive assistant, friend, sounding board, shields, etc. He does do this with all of us. One of us is older than he. When I need him (like in a contentious public meeting), he’s not there. Claims it is to help me “spread my wings”. Bro…spread your own highly paid wings, please!

        Man from committee is a very old man who only turns to me and says, “when can we get together to brainstorm?” I tell him to tell his ideas to his fellow committee members and he doesn’t.

        1. Cheezmouser*

          Oh geez, why am I not surprised. Sorry you and your colleagues have to deal with this.

          What are the chances that your colleagues are willing to establish normal, professional boundaries with him? It’s hard to enforce boundaries when you’re the only one sticking your neck out, but if you all band together then you might have a better chance.

          Otherwise, would you be able to work around him? Just because he wants your attention while he’s staring out the window doesn’t mean you need to give it to him, especially if it disrupts your own work. “While you’re gathering your thoughts, I’m going to finish the Smith report. Please let me know when you’re ready to begin.” Then continue on with your work as if he’s not there.

      2. Cheezmouser*

        “He asks if he can come in and brainstorm with me which is him staring out the window while I look at him in silence.”

        This is so weird. How long does he do that? Was it just once or does he do this all the time? If it were me, I’d give him 30 seconds max before I say, “Excuse me, was there something you wanted to discuss?”

        1. Co-Brainstorming?*

          It is not total silence for this long but these sessions last 30-60 mins. He’ll look over and say, “what do you think of X?” I shrug because this isn’t how I operate and cannot just come up with a response right then. And then he’ll stare out the window until the next thing pops up. He can’t make an agency decision (he’s the ED) without these. I’m not his deputy or assistant.

          1. Cheezmouser*

            “He can’t make an agency decision without these” –you mean he needs your buy-in before he can make an agency decision? Is that why he’s asking you these questions? I’m confused why he’s asking your opinion if you’re not his deputy or assistant. Are you involved in these things at all? Is part of your role to provide strategic advice to him?

            I’m assuming you’re busy enough that you don’t have 30-60 minutes to waste just sitting there waiting for him to speak. Can you continue working during these sessions? Can he send you the questions via email?

            1. Co-Brainstorming?*

              Yes, he needs our buy-in before making almost every decision minor or major. I think no matter what the dynamic is, he’ll always need to get some sort of coaching. I don’t like arm-chair diagnosing but I see a lot of co-dependency signs. I am a planner and he is the ED of the planning org (a federally mandated one due to census numbers). I am a technical person and nowhere near qualified enough or paid enough to be responsible for these coaching/brainstorming sessions. I am beyond busy but only because of these interruptions and distractions. He’s “not a tech guy” so he never agrees to such things like sending me an email or text or even just writing down his thoughts for when we are together. It needs to be right when he needs the coaching/brainstorming or he panics.

              1. laser99*

                I’m guessing he just likes what he sees as a woman “paying attention” to him. Don’t allow yourself to be used in this way.

              2. Cheezmouser*

                I’m hearing a lot of excuses from him on why he can’t change, why he insists on wasting other people’s time, why others must accommodate him but never the other way around. More importantly, it’s having an impact on your work. Would you be able to establish reasonable boundaries with him?

                -If he insists on sitting in your office, continue working while he’s staring out the window as if he’s not there until he does something that warrants your attention.
                -If he asks you a question that’s not related to your job role, redirect him. “This sounds like a question for Bob. You should bring it up with him.”
                -“Was there anything else you needed? I’m available at 2pm-2:30pm if you’d like some time to gather your thoughts.”

                The point is that you were hired to do a job, and that job doesn’t include babysitting him. If it seems unlikely that bringing these disruptions up with him directly will get him to change, then you can either try to establish boundaries/workarounds to protect your own time or decide you don’t want to put up with him any more and look for another job.

  92. SpEd Teacher*

    I think I know what I would like to do as a dream job, but I don’t know if it’s a real job and if it is, I don’t know what it’s called, how to get it, or if I am qualified.

    I have 15 years of elementary special education experience. I use a lot of ed tech in my job. I feel like I have a lot of feedback for these companies that make and sell these online, computer based programs. I’d love to go into places and give suggestions on how to improve their product from an on the ground, real world, special education teacher.

    Is this a real job? Can I get it? How? Anyone know? Am I just bossy and opinionated and that’s not a real job?

    1. Cubicle monkey manager*

      You might look into QA (quality assurance) or UX (user experience) testing. Neither of those look exactly like what you’ve envisioned, in that they’re much more structured and more aligned with the company’s needs than the user’s needs. But worth looking at!

    2. BellyButton*

      You can look into curriculum development. I think with your experience you would be more suited to content within the software as opposed to the software itself. Although, often curriculum development will have some input on user experience.

    3. Anonymous Koala*

      Totally not my area, so please ignore me if this isn’t useful, but as a parent, I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to select appropriate software for ages/stages, what to look for, what to avoid, etc. I know it’s a lot of work, but have you considered starting a blog, TikTok, or instagram page reviewing common software and providing guidance? It might also help you get connected with people in this space.

    4. Cheezmouser*

      Look for product development, product manager, or product training/consultant positions at these companies.

      I also like Anonymous Koala’s suggestion of starting a social media channel where you post product reviews, product comparisons, how-to’s, etc. Make sure you tag the companies so they see your videos/posts. This can help you refine your ideas, demonstrate your expertise, help other teachers/parents looking for ideas or reviews, etc.

    5. Morgan Proctor*

      UX design in the Ed Tech sphere. Google has a free UX certificate through their Grow With Google program.

  93. Kiwiapple*

    I am currently on parental leave until May 2023. However my last job ended in December 2022 so I have no job to go back to. How to explain the gap? I don’t particularly want to say I had a baby – what do other people do??

    I can’t cover the gap by freelance work because I don’t have freelance skills.

    Help!

    2. Tuesday*

      You can do the ol’ “I took some time off to deal with a health issue that’s since been resolved.” Or “to care for a family member.” Both are true!

    3. Annony*

      Why did your last job end? I don’t think having a gap of a few months is really that notable. If you start job hunting during your leave it is even shorter. Deciding to take a few months off after losing your job or having a contract end isn’t unheard of.

      1. Kiwiapple*

        The job ended because of an ongoing and unresolved restructure (university) for the admin staff throughout.

    4. Lauren*

      Say your job ended and you’ve since its a weird economy right now and you haven’t found anything yet. it’s basically 4 months (Jan – April) so send a few resumes out eand of April / early May and you will get interviews pretty quickly and start date for after our leave.

      You can also lie and say you’ve been taking care of a relative, but that will be over by May and you’ll be available FT at that point. Your baby is a relative and you will be available at that point.

  94. Alice*

    All the individual contributors in my department are supposed to write up monthly reports, several pages long. Some people do, some don’t. I used to skip them but now do them diligently – the trick was keeping the document open all month and filling out the different chunks as I go.
    My boss looks at my report only rarely. (We keep them in an online system that records who views and downloads the reports.)
    I’ve asked her if she finds the reports in their current format useful (there is a template which was created by my grandboss), and she said yes.

    I am feeling really tetchy about it. I feel like my boss does not care what I spend time doing, is not aware of my achievements, and does not pay attention to my concerns. (All those are elements of the template.)
    At the same time I recognize that my boss is juggling a lot of responsibilities, and that if she’s not reading my reports and giving me feedback, it’s because she trusts my judgment and work ethic. Which is a good thing.

    In theory I could stop using the official template and generate pithier reports – but since I don’t know what info my boss actually cares about, that’s feels risky.
    Advice?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Is there some other independent, tangible record of what you do? Work products of some kind (documents, spreadsheets, presentations), or tracking of phone calls answered/trouble tickets completed, teapots polished, etc? If so, then I wouldn’t feel guilty about slacking off a little.

      I’d see if these reports could also provide future-looking value. This is a good place to put lessons learned that could be shared around the office, eventually incorporated into future procedures or training materials, etc. “Found out that Nicaragua changed their llama wool import customs form last year; we should brief the Central & Southern America sales team that their orders will probably be delayed by a few days until everybody is used to handling the new form.”

    2. ferrina*

      If you want to propose a pithier layout, draft up a sample and show it to your boss. Most of my bosses have preferred the layout that requires less reading from them.

      I wouldn’t switch without Boss’s approval. In my experience, these reports are utterly useless until they suddenly become essential. And then you get slammed for not doing something which had previously been a waste of time.

      1. Alice*

        At this point boss and grandboss are saying, “we don’t care if you change the template, just write up _something_ every month” (because some people are just ignoring the “requirement,” like I used to).
        But I am wary about the “suddenly becoming essential” situation that you mention….

  95. Caylie P*

    OK, this is very similar to an Ask the Readers question not too long ago, but I’m hoping for some less circumstance-specific answers–or at least, answers that are more specific to MY situation.

    Short version: How can a “disabled” person identify and find jobs/careers that suit their abilities and needs?

    Longer version: I’ve been grappling with looking for paying work since I graduated (sadly, this was 2006). I have some invisible limitations that make a traditional 9-5 out of the question, but I could do some work–I just can’t figure out what or how. I’ve tried some of those career questionnaires, but they all seem to skip over “are you physically/mentally able to come into an office 5 days a week?” type of questions. How can I figure out what I might be able to do?

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      I think with this kind of question, it’s really hard to give specific suggestions without knowing more about your specific limitations. I’d probably start by looking at Reddit threads for your specific condition and asking other people in the community what they do, or even posting here in AAM with a list of “can’t do/ would prefer not to do/ would love to do” so people can offer specific advice. If you can swing it, a career coach with experience working with people who need accommodations might also be helpful.

      1. to varying degrees*

        Seconding this. Depending of the limitations you could also check in with your area’s Vocational Rehab to see if they can be of any help.

      2. Caylie P*

        I’m perfectly happy to give more details on my conditions and limitations. I didn’t want to overload the initial post. I’m not a Reddit member, but I suppose I could scope it out to see if there’s any useful information there.
        The tricky part is, what I have is late-stage Lyme disease. This condition is notoriously variable in its manifestations, so what works for some (even many) other Lymies often doesn’t work for me.
        I’ll make a separate post for “can’t do/preferences/would like” so it gets seen.

    2. Temperance*

      I think it might be easiest to start by looking at what hasn’t worked for you, or doesn’t work for you, and go from there. So full-time, butts-in-seats is out of the question, so reception work isn’t for you. Neither is call center work.

      Do you have a specific interest, or specific things that will not work at all?

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Is there an advocacy group for your disability? Those organizations may have career advice, as well as information for employers.

    4. BellyButton*

      You might consider looking up virtual assistant positions? They are often a small number of hours a week and you can work for multiple people to take on only as much as needed. If you Google “virtual assistant” you will find several websites where you can apply or post on to look for work.

      1. Caylie P*

        I tried that without success, but I can look again. It was a few years ago, so no doubt the market has changed.

    5. Caylie P*

      To answer questions for more information/details: I have late-stage Lyme disease, which is one of those fun conditions that vary wildly from person to person. I have also had it considerably longer than any significant studies cover, so it tends to pop up in ways that aren’t on the official symptom list.
      So, details:
      Stuff I CANNOT do:
      -Stand for extended periods
      -Lift more than ~30 lbs.
      -Customer service/heavy people interactions (I’m told).
      -High-level function on a regular schedule.

      I know that last ones sounds both bananas and impossible to work with, but hear me out. I have severe, intractable, and inconsistent sleep problems. Basically, I can’t say in advance if or how well I’ll sleep at any given time. If I don’t, well, I’m pretty much useless. I’ve tried pushing through and operating on limited sleep, and it ended disastrously, so it isn’t just “I don’t wanna work when I’m tired.” I am legitimately unsafe.
      That said, I CAN do higher-level work most days, it just varies what time of day. Sometimes it’s daytime. More often, I’m great at, say, 2 in the morning, but can barely remember my name come daylight.

      I WOULD LIKE to do something involving:
      -Writing
      -Medical information
      -Art
      and/or
      -Animals

      I’m happy to provide more details or engage to get some useful answers, so ask away!

  96. Curious*

    I’m curious if anyone has been forced back into the office yet? It seems like with recession fears looming a lot of companies are forcing employees to go back-even companies that intended on staying remote are changing course. How is it affecting you?

    1. Irish Teacher*

      In Ireland, the law is on the side of work from home. It’s kinda vague. Employees have the right to “request” to work from home and employers have to have a reason to refuse. At least, that is my interpretation. But while it is quite vague, I think it would be hard for an employer whose employees had been working remotely to argue that it wasn’t possible for it to continue.

      Though it doesn’t affect me anyway, as teaching isn’t exactly a profession that is likely to be done from home

      1. Maple Bar*

        They don’t, they’re all just using the threat of recession to get away with a lot of nonsense.

      2. ThatGirl*

        It’s more like companies think they have more power if there’s a recession, so they’re flexing it.

        Fwiw, I am not convinced there will be a recession. Unemployment is extremely low, a ton of jobs were created in January and inflation is easing.

        But to answer the original question, my company forced us back in on a 4/1 schedule last year … and it seems like a lot of people aren’t following it.

        1. Maple Bar*

          Agreed. I think the constant threat of a recession in the news and the mass layoffs from big companies posting record profits is an attempt to regain the power employers lost during the pandemic. They want their employees to have a certain amount of anxiety about the uncertainty of what will happen, because it makes people accept more work and worse treatment for less compensation.

  97. This is Fine*

    I am writing to make the AAM community aware of what can happen out there when you’re trying to escape a poisonous workplace and vicious management, and to ask a question. I got a job offer that was contingent upon verification of my employment history. My former employers confirmed my job titles and employment dates within a day; some even replied within a few hours of being contacted by the third-party background check company. There was one former employer who did not respond – the most recent one, which is also the most ultratoxic place I’ve ever worked. The background check company outreached Ultratoxic Former Employer a dozen times by email and phone over 8-9 days. (I know this because their software system shows you the dates, times, method of contact, and name of the rep who did the outreach.) With my start date just a few days away, I emailed my previous employer asking for a response to the employment verification request. In that email, I did not tell Ultratoxic Former Employer the name of the company where I was going. Power-drunk, addicted-to-drama executive at Ultratoxic Former Employer had a history of behaving so badly that I feared they would sabotage me if they had that information, so I told no one I had an offer from Fresh New Start organization. It wasn’t enough to keep me safe: when power-drunk, addicted-to-drama executive at Ultratoxic Former Employer finally called back the background check company, they weaseled the name of my future employer out of the representative. Then power-drunk, addicted-to-drama executive manipulated their way into communicating with Fresh New Start’s HR department by lying that they’d been contacted by a background check company and they didn’t know “what this call is about”. (Believe me, Ultratoxic Former Employer knew what the calls were about. I’d emailed them the background check company’s name, contact info, and details to confirm my employment dates and job title, and they replied to that email from me.) I recently learned that during the interaction with Fresh New Start’s HR person, it became clear that Ultratoxic Former Employer had crashed the door to HR so they could blow up my job offer – they bashed and trashed my job performance and reputation, and urged Fresh New Start to rescind my job offer! Now I realize why Fresh New Start’s HR person contacted me a day before my start date to ask Pointed Questions about that part of my employment history. This has been a chilling experience: I’ve gone from elated that I escaped a hellish situation and landed on my feet, to horrified that Ultratoxic Former Employer tried to stalk me to the ends of the earth and torch my career and reputation as they went. How does this even happen, when an employment verification is supposed to be about just confirming job title and dates of employment?! And all out of …I don’t even know what… spite? revenge? sheer cruelty? I’d done outstanding work at Ultratoxic Former Employer. My reviews were excellent. I am highly regarded in my field. All I did was leave a DefCon 1-level of dysfunction at an organization where awful people were in charge – people who are apparently capable of doing Very Bad Things out of absolute evil-hearted meanness. My story has a good ending: I still got the job. My new boss thinks I’m amazing. I’m really happy here, and grateful to be away from Ultratoxic Former Employer. I’m hoping I never have to leave my new job; I think Ultratoxic Former Employer would try to do this to me again. Ultratoxic Former Employer is a smaller organization; there is no HR department. Which brings me to my question: Is there any way to prevent Ultratoxic Former Employer from trashing me in a future employment verification?

    1. BellyButton*

      WTF?!?! That is insane! Do they have a glassdoor profile? If so, I would post exactly what happened.

      As for the future, I would notify the background company directly that this former boss has a history of trying to sabotage ex-employees and to please not give them any information on who the employer is. The current background company should never have done that!

    2. ferrina*

      I’m so sorry. I’m glad that New Employer saw through it!

      How you handle this depends on how terribly Ultratoxic acted. If they were clearly bonkers, you could give future companies a head’s up: “Just so you know, the last time Ultratoxic did this. Hopefully it will be a non-issue, but in case you need me to answer more questions or provide additional references, I’m happy to do so.” And once you’ve been at your curent company a couple years, the Ultratoxic will become less relevant and more pro forma (it sounds like you’re in an industry where background checks are required. If they weren’t, not every company verifies all employment history and might not even call Ultratoxic).

      Sometimes folks like this will mellow in time. They’ll have new crises, they’ll go weirdly nostalgic for someone to talk to them (and conveniently forget how terrible they were). Of course, some of these folks never change, so that’s not a given.

      Congrats on your new job!!

      1. ferrina*

        And seconding BellyButton’s recommendation to write a Glassdoor post if you feel safe doing this. This is atrocious behavior!

    3. Rick T*

      Candid review on Glassdoor at a minimum, and talk about the org in your industry. I doubt their behavior is well known but ignored.

      You might get a consultation with an employment lawyer to see if there could be legal consequences for their lies.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Agree with a lawyer consult. Idk if this technically rises to the level of tortious interference or whatever, but it does sound like something a strongly-worded letter from a lawyer might fix.

    4. Qwerty*

      Do you have W2s from the years you worked at Ultratoxic Former Employer? I was able to prove employment at a company that had gone out of business using my W2s or paystubs. Hopefully Fresh New Start job is a happy place where you stay many years. Maybe when filling out the background check at future places ask something like “UFE does not have HR and has a history of not responding to verification requests – is there another way I can prove my employement history there like showing W2s or Paystubs?” See if the go for that before pulling out that UFE has a history of trying to sabatoge offers for former employees.

      Also do you have a colleague from your time at UFE who could be your reference if they try shenanigans in the future? They are probably doing this to other former employees too, so you all can try to have each others back.

    5. Me*

      I have had to verify employment with an IRS income tax transcript (numbers redacted) before. One previous employer had since passed away, and another previous employer had since closed her practice. It was fine. They also would have accepted copies of W-2s.

    6. This is Fine*

      Thanks everyone for these very helpful suggestions. I’m feeling much better now that I have some idea how to protect myself in the future. It was very kind of all of you to offer your thoughts and support, I really appreciate it!

  98. Cyndi*

    I just typed out a whole problem I was having and then realized it was a ridiculous nonissue, my anxiety was messing with me, and anyone who answered would tell me so immediately. Thanks for solving my problem, AAM commentariat!

    3. ecnaseener*

      Ah, the “explaining problem to others makes problem go away” hack. Glad to be of service! :]

  99. Chilaquil*

    What level of access does your manager have to your work email account? I’m absent on PTO (health related) and my manager dropped into conversation that he’d gotten access to my emails already via our IT department. I’m old school so don’t have a particular expectation of privacy for work email accounts (and never use mine to send anything untoward or that I’m not technically cool with my manager reading) but I’m curious what the custom/norm is these days. For context we never usually access anyone’s emails when they’re out on PTO.

    1. Can't think of a funny name*

      We don’t get access to people’s emails when they are on PTO but we do if they are on leave (e.g. medical leave). The person’s direct supervisor would get access.

    2. Rick T*

      The business owns the account, so they can allow anyone access they deem appropriate, but if you are on an open-ended PTO I can see them allowing access to your manager.

      Duration is the key: if you are going to be out for longer than a normal vacation outage they need coverage. If you are only out for a few days with an out of office message that would be different.

    3. Dinwar*

      I would view this as a fairly extreme violation of privacy. Not necessarily because I expect privacy in my company email account–I don’t–but rather because, due to the nature of the work we do, not everyone on the team has all the access that everyone else does. It’s not unusual in our company to work for several big clients at once, and your manager may not have the necessary authorizations to see the data from each client.

      That said, we also have a norm to keep an eye on your email while on PTO. Or let people know you’re 100% not available, and who to contact instead. So maybe that mitigates things.

    4. RussianInTexas*

      Full.
      I am partially in customer service, and have customers that do not follow instructions on how to place orders via shared e-mail, don’t read my OOO instructions on who to ask questions, etc.
      So my manager has full access to everyone’s e-mail at any time for errant customer issues. Everyone’s inbox gets checked when you are out of the office.

  100. Zach Sabre Sr.*

    I teach at a community college and it’s getting to be about time for me to hit that old dusty trail. I’m not sure where to go next.

    I’ve always been good at jobs where I show up and do something, but don’t have to manage too far in front of my face. I was very successful when I worked a factory job while I was in grad school, and I’m great at my current position because my job is basically to teach five classes a semester. My primary deliverable is being physically in front of students ten times a week for 75 minutes a pop, and doing a little grading on the side. Most of the rest of my job is committee work, where I show up and shoot from the hip. I’m okay at research but self-directing is inordinately hard on me – my productivity is much lower than it could be because I’m bad at planning very far in the future, so I end up working at deadlines and it hurts the final product I put out. That’s why I picked a community college as my home.

    I have an MS in a quantitative discipline. I can program competently in a handful of languages commonly used for statistics. I’m going to finish a JD in 2025 (part time program) that I’m taking on a full scholarship because I’m interested in learning to do academic legal writing.

    But enrollment is dropping, and administration is starting to eat crackers like they own the place. I’m probably not cut out to move into admin because a lot of college administration involves strategic planning that isn’t my best skill set.

    Do I need to look only to moving into other teaching-focused jobs? Legal academia is going to be too competitive for me – I’m definitely focusing on the job market but my school doesn’t produce law professors and my law school is basically me playing using professional development funds. I’m probably too old for biglaw to hire me and I don’t think it falls into “just show up and work” fits there anyway.

    1. urguncle*

      Data science is huge right now. I think you’d have your pick of places to go, especially if you wanted to do freelance or consulting.

    2. Nesprin*

      Is grants/contract management a possibility?
      I feel like “works to deadlines”, “understands academia”, and “knows law thingies” sure sounds like my grants/sponsored projects/contracts office.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Start looking at legal publishers for positions. There could be some opportunities for legal editing etc. Stuff gets put on your desk, you crank through it, then you’re done.

    4. DrSalty*

      Medical or technical writing might be appealing for you, depending on what your MS is in. It’s very project focused, so working on what’s right in front of you vs strategic planning.

  101. Gigi*

    This is an issue from a while ago, but I’m curious as to how others would’ve handled it.

    I recently switched careers, and often work under people 5-10 years younger than me. Normally I have no issues with this, and do my best to treat them like any other boss/manager.

    But I had one manager who was fresh out of college. She had a habit of stopping everything to watch sneaker drops livestreams and facetiming her boyfriend. Even if she was in the middle of leading a meeting or training me in new-to-me tech. I learned more about sneakerhead culture than anything else.

    My instinct was to take her aside and say “Hey, I understand this hobby matters to you, but you’re risking coming across as unprofessional when you stop meetings to look at Nike.” But, while I had more experience than her in the working world, she was still my hierarchical superior. I wasn’t sure which mattered more here. So, how should I have handled this?

    1. ferrina*

      Ooh. You can’t really coach a boss unless they want to be coached. If you try to even gently coach them and they don’t want it, there could be repercussions. Unless she really looked up to you or in some way indicated she wanted advice, you were in a uniquely bad position to give her that message. That needed to come from someone else.

      But wow, that’s appalling.

    3. Qwerty*

      Not your job to train up. If you say something, talk about how it affects *you*, her employee, not how it makes her look to others.

  102. NaoNao*

    I need some help here.

    A coworker who is very valuable to the company and the face of a successful recent launch of a high profile project is also very condescending and man-splain-y to me when talking. We’re on the same team, same title. He was hired 4 weeks before I was (and from externally).

    He does have valuable insights and he’s a good worker/employee, so he’s not incompetent. It’s just…

    Beyond the mansplaining things like in emails “Calibration is a good thing. Sets you up for success on future sessions” (a direct cut and pasted quote), he’s dropped pretty targeted hints that he seems to consider himself in some kind of lead or manager position to me.

    As one example, I was discussing in a general way my interest in conducting leadership training and he said [paraphrased slightly] “Well I know you want more complex projects but we’re seeing how you handle these smaller projects, and most importantly, how you handle challenges.” A couple other similar statements were tossed around-basically implying he feels or thinks he has some duty or right to observe, evaluate and make judgements on my performance.

    I was both furious and thunderstruck. That’s the type of statement a boss makes–and I’d still consider it a *tad* condescending to talk to a 6-figure mid level manager title professional that way, but I’d grin and bear it from my actual boss.

    I called my mom and vented and she said to think of it like “he’s talking about the whole company/the team” meaning “the team is still finding its footing and figuring out the best work load for everyone” but he doesn’t assign work. He doesn’t manage me. And it would still be really weird to use the Royal We talking about the team like that, or the company.

    I don’t want to rock the boat here–I’m still finding my footing in this new job, the economy has had an effect on jobs in my field, the pay is great, the flexibility is great, and the work is decent overall. So complaining to my manger really isn’t an option right now, and I suspect this is a “work it out/personality conflict” thing.

    Anyone have *realistic* (not “and then everyone clapped” type) ideas on how to counter this kind of subtle crap? Appreciate it.

    1. Tuesday*

      Can you go to your manager about it without complaining? Something like “I was curious about the chain of command here – Fergus has made some comments suggesting I should report to him. Is that true?” Or something. You can make it as passive as you feel comfortable and even avoid mentioning him by name at all, just frame it as making sure you’re reporting to all of the right people. Once you have confirmation that he isn’t above you in any way, you can go from there with how you handle him individually.

      But also, prepare for him to be your manager eventually. Companies love promoting smug jerks like this. Ask me how I know!

      1. AlabamaAnonymous*

        I agree with this. I would try first to find a to confirm with your manager that this coworker doesn’t have supervisory responsibilities or even mentoring responsibilities before doing anything else. I had an experience once where my boss was changed and I was not told for almost a week. (Yes, it was a pretty toxic/disorganized work environment.) I had several odd conversations with my new boss in that time frame since he was trying to manage me and I didn’t know he was boss! Hopefully your place is more organized than this, but it can happen!

    2. ferrina*

      This guy sounds like a pain. Dude would get some serious snark from me.

      When he says crap instead of other people, raise an eyebrow and say “um, yes. I know. But back to Actual Topic” in a tone that makes you sound confused and maybe even a little amused about why he thought he could talk down to you.

      Don’t talk to him about anything remotely personal or non-essential. He will weaponize information and try to use it to make you feel small. Find an excuse to walk away.

      Politely point out that you don’t need his opinion (because it is an opinion). “I’ll talk to Boss when I’m interested about that- I’m sure they’ll have excellent insights.” (Bonus points on this one is that you are not necessarily insulting him, just complimenting someone else- it makes you look really good to anyone who may overhear).

      If it fits in your personality*:
      -Use big words/fancy jargon. I am fluent in Jargon, though I try not to use it that much, and have a propensity to drop random technical or unusual words. When someone (80% of the time male) tries to condescend to me, I turn on the Word Deluge. This makes people back off really quickly.
      -Similarly, go into technical terms and joke about inside-industry things, or make sports/other hobby analogies. Drop it into a conversation like you expect him to understand the reference. That often will make someone lose their footing (or at least avoid you).
      *Don’t do these things to people you actually like or are generally innocuous. This is pure hidden snark, only to be deployed on people that actually deserve it.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      If a colleague at my firm started saying things like “Well I know you want more complex matters but we’re seeing how you handle these smaller files, and most importantly, how you handle challenges,” I would stop them in the moment and ask, “We?”

      That’s not an Internet Tough Guy response, either. There’s no way that a peer should be talking to me as if they are supervising or managing me. If he’s actually been put in some kind of supervisory role to you, you would be legit asking for this to be made crystal clear and the question is not rude or unreasonable.

      As for mansplaining in e-mails: ignore. The more people who are Cc’d, the better. Mansplaining in conversation: answer “OK,” rest a beat, and continue whatever you were saying.

      1. NaoNao*

        I really wish I had said that –“Who’s ‘we’?” in the moment but I was second-guessing myself even then like “did he just say that? Surely I must have misunderstood!”

        1. Glomarization, Esq.*

          Ha! Well, best of luck keeping that in your back pocket next time it comes up.

          I also like others’ suggestions here to proactively go to your own manager to clarify. It wouldn’t be complaining. It would be genuinely asking whether he was hired on to be some kind of mentor or leader in relation to yourself.

    4. Generic Name*

      I’m feeling a little salty today, but eff avoiding rocking the boat. I think it’s more than reasonable to allow yourself to react naturally in the moment. Don’t worry about being ultra polite and soothing his feelings. He says something outrageous or mansplainy, feel free to look surprised and say “excuse me?” or “what?!?”. He sounds like a jackass. I noticed that you said he’s valuable and good at what he does. Frankly, I doubt he’s all that. In my experience, these types are usually OK at their jobs. At best.

    5. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      “We” comes in handy to bring you back into the realm of equal colleagues.

      “Ah, yes, We Llama Groomers handle complex projects like the Brown Llama launch that you just managed, and that’s pretty close to the Spotted Llama Leadership training. We as colleagues can provide insight about how it went for them that their colleagues could learn from. I’ll be sure to give you some feedback as well.”

    6. Anonosaurus*

      I think the next time he comes out with it, I’d say ever so innocently “we? Who do you mean?” If he doesn’t have corporate authority then why is he speaking for management? The whole “make them explain it” thing works for this as well as for dismantling inappropriate jokes.

      I’ve also sometimes dropped a cheery “oh, good job you’re not my manager, I’d be getting my pink slip! Haha!” when a peer or subordinate attempts to give me inappropriate direction/chides me about something that’s not their problem.

      Or you could just punch him, which is not recommended but would feel good.

    7. Qwerty*

      You can ask your manager without complaining. “Fergus has made comments that indicate he’s doing an employee evaluation of me and will be deciding what projects I am on. Was there a change in my management structure I should be aware of?”

      Because people suck at communication and it’s possible someone told Fergus to mentor you. Or he’s been set up to take over as your manager and is being tactless about it. I’ve been on both sides of situations where a peer is told to mentor or manage another peer unofficially and then any fall out gets treated as an interpersonal issue.

      But if Fergus is totally off base, it alerts your manager in a face saving way. If she goes “no, what are you talking about”, play it off like obviously there must have been some miscommunication for Fergus to think he’s in charge of you. I hate when my (usually male) employees go off like this and it takes a long time for me to learn its going because its so weird (and entitled).

    8. Cubicle monkey manager*

      Honestly? My favorite way of dealing with mansplainers is to laugh at them. “Fergus, you’re not my boss!” said in a friendly tone of “gosh that joke you just made is so funny” will completely baffle him. Mansplainers are very used to people getting mad at them, and they’re very good at coming off well in that situation. But they’re really, really bad at being laughed at. Treating every terrible thing he says as a funny joke will also help you brush it off, so you can spend less energy seething at him.

      (My favorite work mansplainer once explained to me that the temperature gets colder in winter. Genuinely all I could do was laugh.)

  103. Hotdog not dog*

    I have a really strange question today. I am part of a team that is understaffed, and another person quit today. My colleague and I speculated that his work would be assigned to me, since up to this point I had been the only one not double booked. However, it was given to another colleague who is already carrying an excess load.
    I reached out to our manager to offer to help (I’m busy, but could easily handle more), and he said he appreciated the offer but felt my colleague should have it.
    I’m not sure how to take this. I just had an outstanding annual review, complete with raise and bonus, so I don’t think I’m being managed out. I’m sure there must be something I’m not aware of, but as the only person NOT stretched too thin, I’m really confused. Should I be worried?

    1. ferrina*

      Probably not. Unless you are being given less prestigious/visible assignments or feeling a career impact, let it lie. There’s lots of reasons this could happen: your boss is bad at tracking other’s workloads, your boss wants to protect you (either because he likes you or you have a certain project that needs extra attention), your boss wants to push your teammate, your boss knows about another project in the pipeline that hasn’t been announced yet but he’ll want you to work on it…lots of reasons. I have a suspicion a reason may reveal itself in time.

      For now, take advantage by either getting a breather or helping your colleagues where you can.

      1. RecentlyRetired*

        And your boss may know that there’s another task coming down the pipe that he is planning to assign to you and doesn’t want you to be stretched too thin to handle it.

  104. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    I’m a program manager at my company. Before going on maternity leave, I was managing 4 programs. When I went on leave, these were each parceled out to the other program managers on my team, including several new hires who were brought in. Now that I’m back from leave, I’m being put on all new projects and those I was previously managing are staying with the new program managers. My manager has let me know that one of the new program managers hired in November, Fergus, is struggling to lead Program A, and recently my boss and grandboss have taken him off of all other projects to focus solely on Program A, and they’ve brought another new program manager, Jane (who just started in January), to assist him, since he seems quite overwhelmed. I offered to step in and give Fergus and Jane some guidance on Program A. Upon meeting with them it is clear that they are in a little over their heads and not managing the program with the attention to detail it needs. There is a major deadline in two weeks and they have not started work on gathering data from the various teams or writing the report. Last year, this task took more than two weeks of staying until 9pm every day, so alarm bells started going off that they haven’t started work on this yet.

    Meanwhile, my grandboss approached me and asked me to apply for a newly created Director role, that will be overseeing the 4 programs I used to manage, and the program managers now working on these programs will be reporting to this director. So now it is possible or even likely that I’m about to be managing Fergus and Jane. Jane I’m not as concerned about since she’s brand new, but I’m a little nervous about becoming a new manager for Fergus when I know he is already struggling. What can I do now to get ahead of Fergus’s performance issues before I’m actually his manager? It will probably take a few weeks or a month for my promotion to go through (assuming it does), but I don’t want this program to get behind in the meantime. That said, I am not even officially working on this program anymore, let alone managing Fergus.

    1. ferrina*

      Ouch, inheriting a low performer is tough.

      For now, flag your concerns about Program A for your boss now. That’s a serious issue. Propose a solution with your boss- how can you get this Program to a vaguely acceptable state before you start working as Director? Luckily as the previous owner, you already have standing to step in (with your boss’s blessing) to start working on this now.

      When promotion conversations go farther and it’s pretty clear you’ll get the role, have a candid conversation with your boss/Fergus’s boss about his performance. The main mission will be to get information. You want to know what Fergus’ boss has seen up to this point. Set some mental milestones (or even written milestones) about what you need to see in this role. You don’t need to put Fergus on a PIP right away, but you can have an early talk about what you’d like to see in his role (which is a conversation you could have even if he wasn’t struggling- it’s always helpful to know what vision your boss has for your role!).

      Keep your boss looped in as you go, and ask their advice when you get stuck or unsure. They should help set you up for success.

    2. Rick T*

      Unless or until you do manage Fergus the success or failure of Project A aren’t your problem(s) to fix, that falls on his boss and grandboss.

      AFTER you are his manager you can step in to help him be successful. For now you should only watch from the sidelines.

    3. linger*

      So…
      * Nobody is directly managing Fergus right now other than Boss (and/or Grandboss);
      * They don’t have time to oversee projects directly, but only deal with overall speed of work;
      * They are aware Fergus is “struggling” with workload, so reduced it to Project A alone;
      * Nobody in that management chain has yet noticed the perilous state of Project A.
      This suggests a pressing need for a management position more directly overseeing the work content, which presumably is where you will come in. In the meantime, you do have standing to flag the status of Project A to Boss, and also what that may indicate about Fergus.
      (So I’m more in agreement with ferrina than with Rick T on this.)
      If Project A is objectively larger and/or more complex than the other projects Fergus had been working on, then Fergus may be struggling not just quantitatively but qualitatively — i.e. there are some aspect(s) of this particular project that Fergus has not been adequately trained for. If so, those need to be identified, because Fergus needs that training.
      One thing that is not very clear here is how far “program managers” are also managing work of others. E.g. does the 2 full week turnaround for the upcoming report assume one person working alone, or could it be done faster by throwing Fergus and Jane at isolated parts of it? Or conversely: is the limit for Fergus in his current role a problem with some part of the work product, or an inability to plan and coordinate the work of others? This question also impacts the definition of your new role.

  105. teaandcookies*

    I have ADHD and I’m really struggling with how to approach self-promotion. I have some pretty cool accomplishments I could talk about, but I don’t want to set expectations that my output can consistently look like that. I learned to underpromise as a coping mechanism, because my abilities are inconsistent and very situation-dependent. But I understand not wanting to hire someone who says they might or might not be able to do the thing! I’m getting a bit better at understanding the conditions that set me up for success, but it’s a lot of work every day to set those up for myself and because they aren’t typical things, I can’t rely on any of them that depend on someone else’s actions – people just don’t quite grok that a small change for them could mean something much bigger for me. So I don’t want to promise that I can do amazing things as a baseline, and advice about how to market yourself better (eg. the book Brag Better that I started reading) feels dissonant and wrong to me. It’s so awful when the bar gets set at a level which takes my 110% effort. Meeting the bar is just treated as normal, but I can’t drop the ball for a single second.

    Is there a way to underpromise while still expressing confidence? I could imagine that working for something like estimating the time a task will take, but I don’t know what it looks like for presenting oneself in interviews and building out a personal brand. How have other neurodivergent folks approached self-promotion?

    1. Janeric*

      In soft skills questions I bring up accomplishments and then I’m like “supervisor made sure to X, Y, and Z, that really set me up for success” or “I hit snags when X but then by implementing Y and Z I was able to persevere”

      But also like, success is iterative and you should assess whether your potential managers understand that via “what makes someone good vs great at this job?” And “what does a typical day look like?” questions. And if you know you need like, frequent check ins or quiet working space or someone to take on a lot of your administrative burden, you can ask about management style and then follow up with specific questions — this is easier if you talk earlier in the interview in a way that expresses a good relationship with your supervisor.

    2. ferrina*

      No one promises 100% excellence every time! (and if they are, don’t trust them). Talk about your accomplishments!

      I can’t tell if you’re having trouble meeting a reasonable performance metric, or if your employer keeps raising the bar beyond what is reasonable. I ran into this with one boss- if I wrote a report in 3 hours, she expected that every time (even though it was unheard of to write that kind of report in under 6 hours- the 3 hour record was a perfect combination that only happens once a century). Because my ADHD/terrible parents taught me not to trust my own expectations, I trusted hers, and that was a mistake. If your employer expects your best day to be every day, that’s a problem.

      You can always add caveats to your accomplishments: “My record is knitting 500 llama socks in a month, but usually average around 100.” But I encourage you not to- you earned that accolade. You can also be honest about your weaknesses, but always include how you compensate- “It takes me a little longer than most people to adjust to administrative change- even if it’s minor, it’s like my brain will need a full refresher. But once I’ve done it once, I’m all set!”

      Also- watch some How to ADHD channel on YouTube. I wonder if there might be some imposter syndrome going on, or you feel like you must be a certain level of neurotypical to have accomplishments. ADHD will look different than neurotypical, but it doesn’t mean our accomplishments count any less (if anything, I’ve been able to do things no one else can because my brain has me approaching situations in a different way). How to ADHD has some great material on helping you recognize your strengths and why ADHDers can have trouble giving ourselves credit.

    3. M*

      I would also think about whether you would want to work slightly under your level, if that’s feasible. Like, if you can meet the bar at senior level but only if you don’t drop a ball, what happens if you go down one rung? Does the complexity of the work matter at all or will every job need a level of EF from you that you don’t just always have? If the kind of work makes a difference, you could make sure to highlight the parts you do well and try to diss out whether you could get the support or flexibility you need for the other parts?

  106. How Can I Help?*

    This errs towards a personal question but involves my supervisor. TW: alcohol addiction/mental illness.

    My (older Gen X) supervisor who is LOVELY and someone I consider a mentor has been making some out-of-character and odd comments about millennials recently. Along the lines of “millennials just struggle so much to get started in life” and “millennials have more emotional issues than other generations, I just don’t understand…” and I’ve gently pushed back (“Supervisor, I’m a millennial, I’ve been working since I was 15..”). It’s unlike her and sure enough the other day she broke down. Her son is a millennial (same age as me) and he’s living with her, and can’t keep a job because he’s struggling with mental health and alcohol addiction issues. It’s clear to me that she’s looking for other reasons why her son, who was so brilliant at school and is a kind person, is struggling so much. I know it’s hard for her to see me succeeding/married/etc when her son and I are the same age and he’s floundering. She’s apologized to me for telling me, and admitted I’m the only person who knows about it. Since then I’ve walked in on her a few times with glassy eyes from holding back tears. She’s terrified for her son and is at a loss of what to do. He has a therapist and psychologist. My question is: what can I do to support her? And does anyone have any books they’d recommend for the parent/family member of someone struggling with mental illness and addiction? It’s a sensitive situation compounded by the fact that she’s my supervisor, but I genuinely want to help her. What can I do? Has anyone else ever gone through this with a coworker/supervisor? 

    1. A Simple Narwhal*

      Your heart is in the right place, but this is not your problem to solve, and I think any attempt to help would be an overstep. As her employee the best thing you can do is continue to be a good employee.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      You seem like a lovely person and my heart breaks for your boss, but I think the best thing you can do for her is to be a really good employee. Is there work you can sort of “take care of” without needing to go through her? Is there stuff you can take off her plate? That’s how you help her right now. As someone who has been in your shoes (though it was with a colleague, not a boss), it’s awkward, because you do feel like you’re an “embodiment” of what the other person hasn’t done. That’s not on you. You’re not, as Captain Awkward would say, “being successful at her”. This is a tough spot to be in. I left the job with that colleague long ago and I have no idea how their child is doing, but I think of them both often and wish them the best.

    3. irene adler*

      There’s a website: National Alliance on Mental Health
      They might have suggestions for you. Mostly they offer education for the loved ones who have mental illness.
      It can be a wonderful thing to just have someone listen to you.

    4. WellRed*

      Do your job and do it well. You’re very kind and I’m sorry she’s struggling but she also shouldn’t have brought you in to this. If she’s crying at work regularly she needs to seek out her own support including therapy and maybe AlAnon.

    5. ferrina*

      Does your work have an EAP? You might remind her that that could have resources, and this is the kind of thing that EAP’s are made for. You could even joke that she’d be setting a good example for you by looking into the EAP.

      But you are in a uniquely bad position to support her. You are her direct report, and you suspect that she’s (involuntarily) comparing you to her son. This means that whatever you do will come through that context, and there’s a lot of potential for boundary crossing and backlash. Be sensitive and be a great employee, but let her deal with this on her own (she can look for books on her own). I’m sorry- I wish I had a way to make this easier on both of you.

    7. Irish Teacher*

      Honestly, don’t underestimate the importance of just being there and caring. You don’t have to do anything big and you definitely don’t have to try and solve this.

      Two things I remember from one colleague after my dad died. She sent me a lovely e-mail, saying she wished there was something she could do and she really liked me and she’d be at the funeral if she could get the time off. And, she probably doesn’t even know I’m aware of this, but I just saw her watching me sometimes like she was trying to assess if I was OK. And it really mattered to me that she cared.

      From the other side of the situation, I once had a manager who had just had something upsetting happen (nothing compared to what your supervisor is dealing with, but she was upset). Another colleague and I went out of our way to notice what had to be done and so on so she didn’t have to tell us and again, we were genuinely concerned about her. And I’m sure it meant a lot to her. She didn’t say anything, none of this was expressed directly, but she thanked us a couple of times for doing various jobs in a way that was a bit more heartfelt than was really required and I’m sure she really meant “thanks for caring.”

  107. AnotherLibrarian*

    I supervise an amazing staff (seriously, they’re all fantastic). I know what I would tell one of them in my shoes, but I can’t seem to do it myself. I have an anxiety disorder and it’s been flaring up a lot lately and I keep telling myself that I should just take a sick day or two to sort of give myself some room to recover. But I can’t seem to bring myself to do it- every week I look at the schedule and I think- “Well, I can’t do Monday or Tues or…” I know I need this and this is what Sick Days are for, but somehow I can’t get over the “I’m abandoning my people to the wolves” feeling- even though I know they’re competent and would be fine without me for a day or two.

    1. Gigi*

      If you can give them advanced notice of those sick days, that can help mitigate some of that worry. It can be hard to extend the grace to give to other to yourself, but as you said, this is something you need to look after yourself. As long as you communicate the scheduling with your team, no reasonable people would begrudge you being out for a day or two when you need to look after yourself!

    3. ferrina*

      You know how to support fantastic staff? Show them that taking PTO is okay. Be that example of what you want them to do.
      ^ that’s the mental gymnastics I had to do for a while. And it made a difference- one person later admitted that it made him nervous when I didn’t take PTO or worked on my day off. But seeing me unplug for a day gave him permission to do it.

      I also gave me staff my phone number. An email would wait until I get back, but if it couldn’t wait, they could call/text. They were really good at knowing what was an emergency and what wasn’t (my boss, on the other hand….)

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      When my mental health gets iffy, I carefully arrange my appointments so that there are relief valve days that if I cancelled, it wouldn’t be a problem. Sometimes just knowing that next Tuesday is a possibility was enough to get through another week.

      And your fantastic staff will be fine.

    5. From An Old Laptop*

      I was a member of a fantastic staff team with a fantastic manager. She was brilliant and steered our department so excellently. Then she resigned to go somewhere else, and we had difficulty recruiting her replacement, so we had NO manager for about 4 months. And guess what…the department went on absolutely brilliantly because we were… fantastic! We were extremely capable, and had learnt all sorts of good things from watching how she ran the department.
      If they are fantastic, then they will be fine. You need to recharge.

    6. Pocket Mouse*

      Would minor mental gymnastics help? If you don’t feel you can take days off just for anxiety (which, to be clear, you can!) maybe schedule an eye exam or other medical appointment that you find non-stressful, take the whole day off “for the appointment”. Bonus points if it’s in the morning so you have a big chunk of time just for yourself.

  108. AnonymousForThis*

    Anyone here felt at any time in the past that the company culture is changing to the point where it is not a good fit anymore? Because I am starting to feel that way. I will not go into details here, but I will just say that when I started the culture was a great fit, but now it is changing where it doesn’t align well with my personality. So I am officially starting to look for another job.

    But I will not leave without another job lined up first. I just don’t feel that my future will be with my current employer for much longer. Did anyone else feel this way, and what did you do? What ended up happening?

    1. WellRed*

      Sort of. My tiny company was bought by a larger company with more of a corporate mentality. We still operate fairly independently and are remote from HQbut I definitely find myself chafing at certain corporate BS. Not to the point of leaving, but I’m definitely feeling a little odd one out.

    2. anon for this*

      I am very much there. The culture of my company took a bad turn under the previous CEO. She is gone, but her hires are still here, and they’re the same kind of rude, entitled, boundary-free bulldozers she was. We went from a place that very much tried for work-life balance, to emergency footing during the worst of COVID (we’re essential workers–it was a slam), to the whole idea of balance being openly mocked. I’m late in my career and very much dreading a job search, but it’s going from bad to worse, and I should start.

    3. Dragonfly7*

      Not exactly the entire company, but the culture of my former department changed with every director. The changes weren’t terrible, I just knew that there wasn’t a path forward there for me anymore. I’m definitely in favor of finding another job while still employed. Now, I do something that was a small part of my old job full time in a different industry at a company that was willing to train me to expand that skillset.

  109. Jazz and Manhattans*

    What are people’s thoughts on the number of layoffs that we are seeing compared to how many jobs were open? We’ve heard the last 2 years that employers can’t fill jobs so will the layoffs get us back to equilibrium?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think they layoffs in the news the last few weeks have been taken out of context because they are big, sexy tech companies. Labor Department report this morning was 500k+ new hires last month.

      1. mreasy*

        I think the tech layoffs are notable because they are large numbers, and because that sector is making massive profits & shareholder dividends meanwhile.

    2. WellRed*

      I don’t think so. Many if the jobs that employers couldn’t fill are low paid and public facing. That’s not where many if the layoffs are.

    3. urguncle*

      I do think a lot of the tech layoffs we’re seeing, not all, are balancing from the past 3-ish years. There will be a domino effect among the big tech companies where once layoffs are announced somewhere (like Meta), it will end up with a lot of the companies shedding people to show that they too are “recession proofing” for their investors. Some of them may actually be putting thought into their lay-off process. Most are probably giving managers a number to cull and calling it a day to appease investors.
      A lot of these places were hiring too fast at above-market salaries, especially in the past 18 months. I hope a lot of these same places will end up replacing staff at a slower and more sustainable pace, but we might be in for an awkward Q1.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I was laid off a few weeks ago (from a very big data company but not Google or Meta) and today’s jobs report made me Very Unhappy. I’m dreading the phone calls from well-intentioned family members reminding me that “everyone is hiring!” The report is not talking about me and my colleagues. Though I suppose I should feel a little more hopeful… I don’t know. I’m probably on-edge and salty because one of the reasons we were given for our layoffs was that the company over-hired last year.

    5. Qwerty*

      I have some rage about these layoffs despite not being personally affected.

      I don’t know if it will be equilibrium. I’m not seeing companies learn the lesson for how they got into this boat. The jobs that are open are not necessarily the jobs being laid off. The tech industry has been behaving impulsively and reactionary rather than with a business plan. While there’s no good way to lay people off, it’s being done almost cruelly – compare messages during 2008-2012 from tech giants of “we’re finding our way through this and trying to hold on to as many of you as possible” to today’s “rawr, we’re raising the bar and many of you don’t deserve to be here” a la Zuckerburg and Musk. People internal to many of the tech companies have been asking why there was such bloated hiring during 2020/2021. It became just a race to get people in the door regardless of skillset – I was in a department that increased over 4x in people…but maintained roughly the same output.

      So many people have been really screwed over. They left stable jobs to work for a tech giant that laid them off just a couple weeks later (when normal companies would stop hiring before a layoff). Or they left a stable job for a cool startup that publicly pretended to be stable and flowing in cash but in reality was a hemorraging train wreck. I think about all the people who did a career change during the pandemic to join tech because it was such a hot market and now its absolutely flooded with experienced candidates.

  110. Warrior Princess Xena*

    Low stakes work travel question.

    I have to travel to the Anaheim, California region in early June for a large training. Work is doing pretty much all they can to do it right – separate hotel rooms, food budgets, communicating schedules early often, taking care of the majority of bookings, blocking out time on our schedules so we’re not juggling training and work, etc. But I cannot get my brain out of the “ugh, this will be long and exhausting and people, so much ugh” rut. Also, I have to book airplane tickets and do not know what traffic/travel conditions are like there or where to look. So:

    Part 1: any suggestions for moving my brain away from “noooo” to “work is paying me to have at least one evening in a different state, cool”?

    Part 2: Anyone have any suggestions on how to best arrange travel to/from a hotel when the airplane and travel to and from airline bookings are all up to me? I’ve never flown anywhere that has what looks like 3 different airports servicing it and would like to avoid either wandering into a sketchy situation in an unfamiliar city or spending what time I’m not in the training sitting in traffic.

    1. WellRed*

      Ask others what they are doing? How does your company usually handle travel? Ask the hotel location what they recommend? Do they have a shuttle? Are cabs or Uber better?

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yes, ask the hotel. Check the web site, call them at like 2 in the afternoon when the front desk isn’t terribly busy.

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I’m assuming the 3 airports you’re looking at are LAX, John Wayne and Ontario (ONT). I prefer Ontario myself. It’s a small airport especially compared to LAX; easy to get into and out unlike LAX. I hate John Wayne with a passion… it’s old and crappy.

      ONT is located north east of Anaheim. Depending on the time of day, the traffic can be fine or a nightmare. In the morning the traffic from the city of Ontario is heaviest heading west/south, toward Los Angeles — that tends to be the way of traffic patterns in LA County, Orange County and Inland Empire (Riverside/San Bernadino Counties). That might help you decide on a best time for your arrival. Plan to be driving against the traffic not with it.

      ONT is also in a “nicer area” than LAX. If you aren’t renting a car and driving yourself, I’m 99.99% sure that any of these 3 airports are going to have hotel-based shuttles into Anaheim because it is such as tourist attraction city. When you book your hotel, ask them about a shuttle.

      1. RecentlyRetired*

        As someone who used to live in Anaheim, and worked at a smaller motel near Disneyland while in College (many years ago), the hotels in Anaheim do not have shuttle service from LAX. It’s more than an hour drive between LAX and Anaheim. There is a bus service that most of the tourists take to a central point near Disneyland where the hotel/motel shuttles pick up.
        I concur with someone on a later post recommending Long Beach Airport, although there were only two airlines using it last time I checked.
        Additional warning about driving when the Disneyland fireworks are going off. Tourists tend to be looking out of their cars and slow down drastically, even on Interstate 5.

    3. urguncle*

      As for the first, treat it as an adventure that you happen to have to work during. You’ll probably get some pretty decent meals! Expense an airport Cinnabon! I always buy someone in my life something small when I do work trips, so it gives me a reason to get out of my hotel room on some down time and even charge work pals with helping me find the perfect cheap and cheesy souvenir.
      Even if all of it sucks, you get to come home and appreciate your own space and bed more deeply than before.

    4. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      On the airport question, I’d definitely recommend flying into Long Beach if the flight options are equally convenient. It’s very close and the traffic pattern is much more even (while rush hour is always going to be rush hour, its peak is not as peaked because there’s no “center” between Anaheim and Long Beach). It’s also a very small airport which makes getting in and out of it a breeze!
      On the mindset, I’d recommend packing an extra “night out/off” outfit that you change into when the workday is done, to get yourself in a funner place. To state the obvious, what about an evening at Disneyland? (or Medieval Times!)

      1. Warrior Princess Xena*

        Well now I’m bummed that Medieval times does not seem to run on Monday nights (my one long free night)! That’s a cool recommendation & I’ll be sure to check it out. Hopefully I’ll be in the area again.

    5. fhqwhgads*

      It might seem like 3 airports are nearish but really if your event is in Anaheim, fly into John Wayne. Seriously.

  111. Rick T*

    John Wayne (SNA) is the local airport close to Anaheim but you can’t get there from every airport. If your hotel is up in the resort district it may have a shuttle bus, so no rental car required.

    Long Beach is next closest but is also direct from limited places. You are more likely to need a car from there.

    LAX is the default but it is HUGE, you may want to book a seat on a shuttle van to Anaheim instead of renting.

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      This info might be old, but John Wayne used to shut down after a certain time in the evening. Once when I was returning home to the area, my flight was delayed, and we were sent to LAX. (I was also traveling with my cat, and the poor thing wet her carrier while I was returning to Orange County in a fellow traveler’s van. I offered to pay for cleaning, but it wasn’t accepted.)

      1. Rick T*

        No, not old. John Wayne has a curfew and shuts down between about 10PM and 7AM each day. They open at 7AM sharp and between 20 and 30 flights take off to start their day off with a bang.

        Flights departing to the south (over Newport Beach) have a unique flight pattern to minimize the noise over the beach houses. They make a hard launch, get to about 1,000 feet then nose over and throttle back until the plane is over the ocean..

        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          I hate flying and used to have to fly out of that airport sometimes for work. Usually, the pilot would announce the weird engine thing that they were about to do, but the very first time I flew out of there, they didn’t, so I was convinced we were about to crash!

    2. Dinwar*

      The nautoloid cephalopods in John Wayne’s terminals are worth the extra headaches of getting there, if you’re into that sort of thing.

  112. Dagny*

    Without more context I am unsure if this is helpful or not but in our state (MA) we have a specific department to assist people with a variety of disabilities in finding and training for employment (Mass Rehabilitation Commission). Its a fairly simple referral process. There may be similar resources where you are.

  113. One Fourth of a Life Crisis*

    Know it’s later but would love some perspective on this situation from outsiders.

    So this week I found out my boss is moving to another role outside of the team and they will be reassigning the rest of the team within our existing team. They are doing it with our say and input in mind and have assured us that we all still have a place on the team, just not the same one we have been working in before.

    Separate from that I’ve been going through a bit of a quarter-life crisis wherein I’m not sure if the role I’ve been doing for the last 5 years is what I want to be doing for the long term and I would like to start exploring ways out. I’ve been doing this on and off for the past year or so and have interviewed for similar roles at other companies but do not feel that I have truly found anything that I want to move into/the jobs I see would be more of the same and what I’ve decided I do not want to be doing.

    Now here’s my question: I have been looking casually at some programs from career counsellors that specialize with workers in similar situations (high achievers and career switchers) whereas my partner thinks I should talk to people in roles that I might be interested in (mostly within their extensive network). I’m happy that they are interested in helping me figure this out and go out on a limb for me to their network but I don’t know if I should talk to their network because…I don’t know what I want to do! Anyone have any recommendations on how to move forward?

    I feel a bit like I’m in a bit of a “chicken and the egg situation” where I want to figure out what I want to do and network from there but I need to at least have an idea of my possible direction before I reach out to others.

    1. ferrina*

      Talk to them. If you’re worried that you don’t have the right questions, talk to some friends about their jobs and jobs they see at their workplace. Talk to family members. The more conversations you have, the bigger picture you’ll get.

      Parallel to this, set aside some time for you to do some reflection on your own. What makes you happy? What drains your spirit? How important is money, ambition, location, industry, organization’s mission? That will start giving you a wide shape of a direction.

      Also- how much of a plan do you need? Sometimes it’s okay for the next job to just be enough. You usually don’t need to commit your life to a career- what if you used each step to get somewhere different? My career plan is “I like to talk to people and solve problems. Ooh, this job looks cool. Hey, you know what we need? A role that does X.” I started in Career A, then when I hit a wall with that (due to both economy and me realizing the industry had too much drama), I randomly cast around and ended up in Career B. I worked in Career B for nearly a decade, taking on different responsibilities over time, then suddenly my organization realized they needed someone with hybrid Career A/B skills for a new role they wanted to create. Now I’m helping create a new role based on my unique combo of experience. It’s weird, but really fun. There was no way I could have predicted this. Sometimes it’s enough to say “yeah, this direction looks good, we’ll see where it leads.”

      1. One Fourth of a Life Crisis*

        Thank you for this response! That’s so true (and something I’ve forgotten) that sometimes the best next moves aren’t perfectly planned. I fear that I took that approach in my first role (which through a series of promotions has led directly to my current) and ended up unhappy so I’m overcorrecting and trying to plan as much as possible for my next move. Definitely a good reminder that the next step in my career doesn’t have to be a forever one!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Seconding ferrina’s advice to talk to them. Be up-front that you want about 20min (or whatever time is appropriate) to learn more about their job/company/industry. Talk to people first, and during these conversations you’ll get a better sense of “I would love to do that!” “Sounds boring” etc.

  114. Reed Weird*

    Light-hearted question for any Magnus Archives fans in the commentariat: how do the Entities manifest in the workplace? I’m especially thinking of the “mundane corporate” type environments, but feel free to go as mundane or as out-and-out weird as you like!
    For example!
    The Spiral- they have rearranged your office so many times that you can no longer find either your own cubical or the exit. You’re pretty sure you’ve passed that motivational sign three times. Did the kitten on the branch just wink at you?
    The Buried- a full-day training in the conference room with no windows, a poorly-functioning HVAC system, and only two working lights overhead

  115. WellRed*

    I’m unclear. Do you want to stay at your current company? If so, I’d reach out to those folks on those teams/roles. What do you like or hate about your current position? Do you write marketing copy but love coding or get excited about number crunching and accounts? Remember: whatever you do next isn’t a lifelong commitment.

  116. JaneAustensTeaCozy*

    Would love some advice from someone more LinkedIn savvy than I am!

    After a dysfunctional last year, I’m looking to move on from the small company I’ve been at for several years. During this time, I’ve managed a team that brings in most of the company’s revenue, hand-painting teapots for clients. Though I was involved in initial client setup and do still talk to the clients, my boss has spent the last several years telling these clients that the teapots are painted by machine learning algorithm–not by myself and my team.

    Now that I’m actively job searching, I obviously want to make sure my resume and my LinkedIn reflect my experience. Though I’m mostly applying to other industries, I’m connected to several clients on LinkedIn. So while it’s easy enough for my resume to reflect my actual experience, doing the same for my LinkedIn puts me in the position of directly contradicting my boss in a space where it’s likely our clients will see.

    What’s the best way forward? Right now my LinkedIn profile is painfully vague, and I can’t showcase the most specialized parts of my role because according to my boss, they don’t exist. This whole situation has paralyzed my job search: I don’t want to ruin things for my coworkers, but I very much do not want to stay where I am.

    1. BellyButton*

      This is a great question and a dilemma I have not encountered before. I think you should submit to Alison, I am very interested in what her advice would be.

    2. ferrina*

      “Customized hand-painted teapots as needed”. Clients will assume that their case wasn’t one of the As Needed ones

      It’s probably fine if you’re vague on LinkedIn. Unless your industry is very LinkedIn heavy, it’s a Nice to Have, not a Need to Have. In my industry, I wouldn’t blink if someone didn’t have a job description.

      1. JaneAustensTeaCozy*

        Unfortunately my industry is pretty LinkedIn heavy, and my company puts a huge emphasis on engaging with content the company posts and making your own posts. So far I’ve gotten away with ignoring all that by having a super outdated profile, thankfully. But I think keeping it vague will probably still work!

    3. WellRed*

      Without knowing more, my reaction is that you are overthinking this a bit. How often do you think coworkers or boss or clients look at your LI (maybe they do every day? dunno). Your boss doesn’t own your LI. Do you think they’ll police it? Do you care? Do you think your clients will have any deep insight into your role? I doubt it. Update with your skills for the job you want.

    4. Morgan Proctor*

      If you hand painted the teapots, then that’s what you put on your LI, regardless of what your boss has been lying to people about. They’re the liar, not you! And I agree with another commenter that you’re overthinking this. Your LI belongs to you alone. Update it to get the job you want.

    5. JaneAustensTeaCozy*

      Thanks for all the advice, everyone! Unfortunately my boss looovveeess LinkedIn (they look up every person who applies and is very judgy about whether their profile is updated and matches their resume) and the company is aggressive about encouraging individual employees engage with our company page. So if I start updating my profile, my boss will absolutely see it and question it.

      That being said, I probably am overthinking this and I suspect keeping things vague will be fine!

  117. Anon Now*

    I actually have sympathy for the letter writer. I think people often lie about things that are sort of semi-true for them – it’s just that their conscious mind hasn’t caught up with it yet. It’s that classic thing where a child might tell some dramatic, weird lie like “My daddy died” even though their dad is alive and well, and the reason the kid did it is because they genuinely, quite urgently need attention and love. Adults do this stuff too.
    I can’t have children, and I might feel strong resentment – and express it privately in a less than charming way – if I had to navigate a co-worker’s baby photos in my personal work space. No matter how objectively cute the baby was, and no matter how happy I was for the lucky IVF parents, it would still activate my inner grief and trauma. Instagram is hard enough! I mute friends who post a LOT of pictures of their kids. (I think people with kids should post their kids maximum once a fortnight. I like the kids, I like the adults, but…)
    Maybe she’s not “infertile”, but maybe her circumstances have made having children impossible and that’s getting to her.

  118. Not sure that he's a fully missing stair, but he sure is a rotten one*

    I work at a school, and I’m having an issue at work where one of the other teachers decided to scream at me after a meeting for no particularly obvious reason. (He asked the other staff members at the meeting to stay after so they’d all hear. He then repeated most of it in front of the principal shortly thereafter.)

    It’s been over a week now, and its pretty clear that the principal is not actually going to do anything about Angry Screamy Man. This does not actually surprise me, as she is from the “principal is your pal” school of principalship. Anyway, she’s retiring at the end of the year, so I’m planning to basically ride this out until we find out who next year’s principal is rather than vigorously look for work since the rest of the staff seem equally or more upset with him behavior than I am. I’m sure this will eventually cause him to accuse me of warping the rest of the staff to my terrible ways once he notices that we are now holding unofficial staff planning meetings without him, but that wasn’t actually my idea and I’m enjoying how much functional planning sessions are going without his obstructive behavior. (Yelling at me was only the most spectacular reason he’s hard to deal with, the main reason is that he tunes out what other people are saying and will not go along with any whole group plan for anything unless he personally came up with it.)

    Right now, I’ve told my principal that I will not attend any meetings where he is present unless she is there to supervise him. She’s kind of given us separate “territories” within the school building, which was fine as a week-long stopgap while she figures out a better plan but not actually a sustainable solution for the rest of the year. (Among other things, his “territory” includes the only photocopier.)

    Anyway, any thoughts on what else I can tell her I will or won’t be doing so as to limit my dealings with Weird Angry Dude? The bar for “not getting in any actual trouble” includes yelling insults at other staff in front of the principal, so I figure I am also not going to get in any immediate trouble if I just refuse to do things (or insist on doing them), but I’d also like to have a big sign over my head that says “Not The Difficult One, Actually Quite Reasonable” when the new principal is trying to figure out how to manage a staff full of bees next fall.

      1. Not sure that he's a fully missing stair, but he sure is a rotten one*

        We’re both union members (I assume – I definitely am and he wasn’t on the list of people to talk to about joining the union the last time that was something I was involved with), so while the rep is aware of hte issue and has talked to the principal about it there’s a limit to how much she can do since she is also supposed to represent him. The union has suggested mediation, which I don’t think will actually help but I’m tempted to try out as further “See, I am the reasonable person being reasonable around here” evidence. (The rep seems to personally be on my side, but that’s not something she can officially be with her rep hat on since it’s a conflict between members.)

    2. BellyButton*

      I wouldn’t go out of my way to avoid him, I would tell him to knock it off any and every time he spoke to me or anyone else that way. He has no right to treat people like that. *mad man yelling* “Sir, this is an unacceptable way to speak to me. ” and then walk away

      1. WellRed*

        Yes, scream back louder (actually be calm and matter of fact or walk away while he’s screaming). The principal has already shown she won’t do anything.

      2. Not sure that he's a fully missing stair, but he sure is a rotten one*

        I mostly just don’t want to be around him without witnesses at this point. He’s clearly got an alternate view of me and all of my doings (part of his yelling included accusing me of “keeping notes on him”, which I was not doing but makes me think he’s got some deeply weird ideas about me), and I want at least two credible witnesses to report my version of reality to call on as needed in case of future accusations.

        1. 1LFTW*

          Hoo boy.

          I shared a classroom with a Very Difficult Colleague a few years back, and my supervisor is conflict-averse, which meant that Supervisor would give her a pass even when she yelled at him in a meeting for agreeing with something she herself had proposed. I was only able to refuse to work with her after her aggression spilled over onto some of the kids, to the point where Supervisor told me to “keep VDC away from Jane and Sally”.

          Keep documenting. Keep refusing to deal with him unless your principal is there to supervise, or unless there are two credible witnesses. Go ahead and try mediation, because I think you’re right that it will make you look like the Reasonable One (especially if it’s on record that you’re the one who sought it out). Set boundaries calmly, and leave if he doesn’t honor him, but don’t scream back.

          The fact that he yelled at you for “keeping notes on him”, which is a pretty normal thing to do during work meetings or professional conversations, honestly makes this guy sound a little scary. I wish you the best of luck navigating his brain full of bees.

  119. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

    My employer wants to become anti-racist. All staff must join a workgroup that will provide recommendations on various topics. As a woman of color, I picked a group focused on identifying how staff of color want to be engaged in this process. I have some ideas, but I would love to hear yours. In case it makes a difference, all staff are women, all senior leadership is white, I believe all other staff are black except me (but I’m not white), and the organization has less than 20 people. The composition of the groups has not been decided yet (my second choice is international staff development to create career advancement opportunities). Thanks!

    1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      I love the somatic approach that Resmaa Menakem takes in his book ‘My Grandmother’s Hands’. He says without somatic experiencing we will never truly be anti-racist, because so much of our responses to others is due to things way below the cognitive level. His focus is on white bodies, black bodies, and police bodies, but the overall approach is brilliant and applicable. The exercises in the book will rock your world (at least they rocked mine).

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Congrats – I hope that your employer makes some good and lasting changes!

      I will say that I have never been a part of an initiative like this and am coming from a relatively privileged background, but from what I’ve read and seen there seem to be two categories of problems that can be tackled. One is coworker relations and soft skills (encouraging correct pronouns, providing resources so people can learn name pronunciations, having good internal anti-bullying and anti-racism policies that are enforced, racism/harassment trainings, etc). The other is monetary/advancement related (salary transparency, hiring transparency, promotion transparency, making sure high-profile tasks are equitably distributed). One of those categories might feel more or less daunting, or be more or less a sore spot.

      I think a lot of this comes down to you and your coworkers. What changes would you like to see in the office? What sticks out like a sore thumb? I will say that based on your description of your office, encouraging an environment where senior leadership listens a lot and talks little is going to be crucial, and maybe the best way to do that is to have a 3rd party come in. Not because they will say anything different from you and your coworkers, but sometimes it’s a lot easier to hear and process ‘this is what you are doing wrong’ from an emotionally uninvested party.

      Whatever path you choose I hope that things turn out really well! I’d be curious if, in a few months, you would let us know how it’s going and what parts are working well.

      1. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

        I have high hopes for this process. My employer already brought in a third party last year to have the difficult conversations. What came from them are the goals I mentioned. Since then, they are saying my name right and listing pronouns. The remaining work will be done without external assistance for now It is my hope that the the outcomes of the internal staff development group will be things you listed in the second category. I look forward to providing an update.

    3. Beazley*

      Here are some things I’m in the process of suggesting to my organisation that is setting up a broader DEI group, more around recognising the work of the group members/ensuring involvement doesn’t put more pressure on people most likely to experience disadvantage for little gain). I doubt many/any will be accepted, but it might get some ideas rolling for you.
      – A payment/allowance/stipend for being involved (mine is a much bigger organisation than yours, so this is more to ensure management recognise it’s importance. I think the concept of everyone being on a group, and self-selecting them is probably a better approach for yours).
      – Term limits on the group (to ensure the load is shared, again may be irrelevant)
      – A way to reduce current workload for members so it isn’t seen as extra work for low-value (to management) – again less applicable with everyone having to do it.
      – Offer additional networking/facetime opportunities for group members with people of influence within the organisation (ensuring this is seen as high-value work to prevent it disadvantaging those who take it on in taking on other high-value work)
      – Adding outcomes to performance management assessments for all staff
      – Ensuring group participation is acknowledged in tangible ways, including during performance management assessments, when considering promotions/opportunities, etc
      – Organisation to allocate resources/budget specifically to implementing outcomes and programs.

      In your specific case, I think a clear policy/process on how allegations of racism will be handled (i.e. onus of proof, disciplinary action, etc) with a lens of victim support could be helpful. If you are an organisation with a lot of customer-facing duties, a policy on dealing with overt and/or micro-aggressions/racism by customers could be useful (i.e. will service be terminated immediately, do customers sign an agreement in advance, how are incidents reported, etc).
      A discussion on the importance of representation, clear pathways and hiring criteria, etc may also be helpful (an all-white leadership in a predominately black and other ethnicities organisation is a suggestion that something might be amiss in these processes). I think it’s always important to challenge the identified criteria and their implications to address ingrained bias – i.e. does this role actually need a degree, or does requiring one really just weed out many people of a certain socio-economic background).

      Finally I’d say ensure your timelines and measures of success are realistic – you’re not going to change the world in a day, and you don’t want to de-motivate people.

      Hope that helps! Good luck.

      1. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

        These are excellent ideas, especially getting additional face time with leadership. Thank you!

  120. Fat Bottomed Squirrels*

    I’m applying for jobs and trying to focus on quality instead of quantity. I had applied to about 60 jobs last year in the span of a month and didn’t get a single interview or phone screen, so I’m feeling very discouraged. I worked hard on my resume and cover letter this time and applied for a few jobs that have missions I admire.

    So of course I’ve gotten my hopes up about some of these positions. That said, I received a notification on LinkedIn that someone from an organization I’m interested viewed my app, and then downloaded my resume a few minutes later. My question: do I message the recruiter to express my interest in this position? I appreciate any insight y’all have into this.

    1. ferrina*

      Have you applied? If so, they already know that you’re interested. Reaching out and saying “I see you downloaded my resume” is overkill.

      Keep applying. Use that improved resume/cover letter to apply, then put it out of your mind (easier said than done, I know). Good luck!

      1. Fat Bottomed Squirrels*

        Thanks for the sanity check! I realized after I posted that, of course, my application indicates my interest. Thank you! :)

  122. Me*

    How can I tell a coworker who is well past BEC stage with me, that I’m not ever going to want to hang out? I have to work with this person regularly.

    I don’t like them and don’t trust them, but we’ve been working together fairly well the past couple of months. Not sure how long I’d last if we start actively not getting along again.

    1. ferrina*

      Polite and professional. If they ask you to hang out outside of work, “no thank you.” That’s a complete sentence. If they start pestering you as to why “I’m looking forward to reading/watching a book/[anything else]”. If they are making a habit of pestering you, then when they say “Want to hang out?”, you say “No thank you. Oh, I just remembered that I need to do Work Thing. Excuse me.” and walk away. Either they’ll get the hint, or they’ll eventually get bored with your answer and find someone more entertaining.

      One thing that helped me the first time I ran into this was to think of this as a Herculean challenge, and I was a professional Hercules. And I worked in a high pressure workspace that was no more than 15 ft x 15 ft for 6 hours per day- no escape. If I could be professional in the face of her, I could do it anywhere. And I can. I’ve gotten really good at the Professional No, which has helped me in so many, many ways.

      Oh, and make an exit plan, either to work with this person less (or be able to mentally shut them out) or to find a better situation. This is so, so stressful long term and not good for your health.

  123. Can't think of a clever name*

    Long-time lurker, first-time asker.

    Does anyone have any experience navigating becoming disabled while you’re at a job?

    A few months ago, I started having some health issues that look like they’ll be permanent. I’ve started using a cane, which has been a godsend. I’ve been breezy and upbeat about things so people will take their cues from me on how to react, and I’ve asked for and received a temporary flex schedule. That said, all this was when I thought this would be temporary, so I’d kind of been in a holding pattern.

    I don’t have a long-term plan for navigating work, accommodation requests, and the social aspects of “all these people have known me for five years, and now I have new physical limitations that I don’t necessarily understand yet.” I’m not sure how to begin to have a plan. Does anyone have any experience with this? What would you tell your past self while you were going through it?

    1. SofiaDeo*

      Stay breezy and upbeat, and be matter of fact as your “new normal” changes and may continue to change for the next few years. People do indeed take their cues from you, and if you can stay calm most of them will.

      My disability situation is different than yours, I ended up unable to work/permanently disabled. All I can offer is to somehow wrap your head around the fact that for the next few years, possibly the only permanent thing about life going forward, will be that it may constantly have some change. I chose to accept it as yet another adventure in my life journey, instead of getting into the “this sucks, life is so unfair, why me, what if something worse happens” mindset. Granted, there may be short periods of it, but try not to get sucked too deeply into it. Plus, recognize during the awful times that tears are actually good, they release stress toxins, so as long as you don’t get hysterical and can’t breathe/eyes are swollen shut, your body is leakiNg in an attempt to purge something.

      You don’t necessarily need to have a major plan. It’s OK to just deal with stuff at it happens, as you navigate the new changes your body is going through. It OK to try things and have it “not work” and even try the same thing again down the road, to see if perhaps things have changed. It’s OK to have “good weeks” and “bad week” in addition to good and bad days. Hell, I’ve had “bad months” but I had to quit work my life got so disrupted.

      I am US based, and my work recommendations may not apply to other countries. Not sure who you are reporting to in all this. I happened to have had a decent manager, who took my requests/dealt with HR a lot for me, simply passing along the forms I needed and adjusting my schedule without a lot of fuss. Depending, you may want to or have to deal with HR yourself, and I hope you have a competent person to work with during this. If you are part of a larger company, your boss doesn’t have the time/interest to be a reliable contact person, I think it’s OK to find a single point person in HR to deal with moving forward. For me, personally, “losing control of my body” was a major, major stressor and I found that anything in my life I *could* control, I wanted to with a vengeance. So dealing with the same person in HR moving forward may be a comfort. And I mentioned this in case you too suddenly have control issues in other parts of your life moving forward, for things that you never did previously.

      Focus on *what you want to have happen* and how you can achieve it. Take pleasure in when you *can* reach goals. Redirect your thoughts when possible, when the unfairness of it all comes crushing down. Not “toxic positivity”, just, trying to focus on what you have (glass half full) instead of what you don’t.

  124. feline outerwear catalog*

    I have a 2nd round interview next week for an awesome opportunity, hooray!

    BTW – what do others think of posting about your layoff or putting the open to work banner on linkedin?

    I appreciate that we seem to be moving towards being more open and less shaming about losing one’s job but it also feels icky to me, personally. I’m a private person and don’t like publicly broadcasting that I’m out of work.

    I will see posts from others which makes me think maybe I should suck it up to get more opportunities, but then I see a lot of those posts come through and it makes them just feel like more noise in my feed. Does this actually help folks get jobs or get them sooner?

    1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      I don’t personally see employment status as stigmatizing, so I would put it out there, but as far as how effective it is, no idea.

    3. mreasy*

      When I read on LI about someone I know to be professionally accomplished / respected in my field being laid off, I immediately send their info to our recruiter in the event we have an opening they could fit into. I don’t think it could do anything but help.

  125. Nervous New Grad*

    Help! I have a great and time sensitive question!
    I just heard back from a final round interview for an amazing job and I need to provide a couple of references!
    I always try to message my references before listing them to make sure they’re aware of and okay with being listed. I have one reference locked in, but the other hasn’t gotten back to me and I want to be able to send them as soon as possible! The one I’m waiting on is a former coworker who I worked closely with, mentored me, and who reached out after I was laid off to let me know I could ask if I needed anything from him – but since I haven’t heard back from him yet about if I can list him as a reference, I’m hesitant to do so. I messaged a few other former teammates on LinkedIn so I’m hoping they’ll respond, but if I don’t hear back soon what do I do?! Just list someone anyway?

    1. Nervous New Grad*

      Well never mind – of course as soon as I posted this I heard back haha. Ask and you shall receive I guess!

      2. Squeebird*

        Yay! My advice for the future is phoning for time-sensitive requests like that rather than using email or messaging. I hate picking up the phone as much as the next person but I’ve learned that if I need a response quickly with no wiggle room… it’s the way to go.

  126. L. Ron Jeremy*

    The unemployment rate was 6.3% when Biden took office. The latest unemployment numbers show it is now 3.4%, the lowest it’s been in 54 years.

    Have folks seen an increase in hiring where you work?

    1. WestsideStory*

      My entire field is hiring more. But there is still a lot of resistance to paying reasonable wages.

      1. WestsideStory*

        I’m in one of the states where salary range must be posted, and in a city with a high cost of living. It’s been a real eye opener to see how low the salaries are offered.

    2. 1LFTW*

      Officially, yes. There are posters up claiming that we’re hiring for certain positions.

      In reality? Management is refusing to backfill positions after people have retired or been promoted, leaving us stretched ridiculously thin.

    3. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

      I have noticed a decrease in quality job postings in my area and field. Nothing more specific about actual hiring though. I thing companies are being more cautious and pulling back a little, but still hiring if the really need to.

    4. Anyone*

      Don’t forget, the unemployment rate is calculated based on the number of people in the labor pool, and that only includes people actually filing for unemployment or working. People who have maxed out their weeks of unemployment, don’t qualify, retired/retired early, or just quit looking don’t count.
      And no, no increase in hiring here. More work, fewer people to do the work. Anecdotally, several of my coworkers have gotten resumes emailed to them from friends of friends (and sometimes further connections than that) because they have heard that people don’t work here anymore, but there are no job postings and the resumes go nowhere.

  127. YRH*

    My husband interviewed a promising job candidate this week. His office is pretty casual; he’ll wear sweats if he’s not doing anything client facing and dark jeans/khakis and a polo shirt/blazer if he is. The candidate came to the interview in an anime costume, which several people did not feel was appropriate for the office. How do you have a discussion about office dress standards when the dress code is really casual?

    1. Warrior Princess Xena*

      In the best possible light, assuming a candidate that has absolutely no experience with working in an office environment, I would probably end the interview by saying “while we’re pretty casual around the office, we do have a basic dress code [insert dress code here]”.

      But honestly that’s a pretty big error in judgement. That’s not just ‘missed the gravy stain on the pants’ or ‘cat hair on side of leg’ – that’s ‘what were you thinking??’ levels of being off.

      1. ferrina*

        Yeah, that’s impressively off. I’d have asked about it as part of the interview.

        Your husband can still ask about it. If this person is the best candidate, have a quick call and say “hey, I want to make sure that we’ll be a good culture fit for you. Here are the expectations….does that sound like somewhere where you’ll be able to thrive?”

    2. RagingADHD*

      I would not bother having that discussion at all, unless your husband wants to spend the time explaining (or more likely, debating) every.single.aspect of basic office norms from here on out.

      This candidate may be “promising” on paper, but this choice was either signaling a complete absence of knowledge about how to have a job, or they were making a strong statement about how they intend to conduct themselves going forward. It isn’t going to just be dress code.

      It’s going to be every meeting. Every deliverable. Every expectation about how to talk to coworkers and clients. Every day.

      Does he want to take that on? Is it worth it?

  128. Cherry Sours*

    Hi! I am a late-in-life college student, and enjoying the heck out of it. Not working at this time, but have a small amount of money coming in. (No, not student loans.
    My daughter, in her fourties, married and with 5 kids, works almost full time, but makes a low wage; due to heath issues, her husband is unable to work.
    My daughter wishes to earn a degree also, which I applaud. Her plan would be to continue working their current position & attend an online university that charges by the term (actually appears to be semesters, but if they are indeed the same thing, the odd naming is simply semantics.) Obviously she’ll be filling out a FAFSA. Any idea how the grant & loan situation would be in this situation? Do these colleges offer grants also? I suspect there will be plenty of loans offered, but trying to limit those as much as possible, based on income at the moment. Can you imagine making under 22k for a family of 6, and seeing huge loan amounts? I realize she’s likely in good company, but it’s stressing us out. I will be assisting with tuition to whatever extent possible.
    And my final question, any ideas on possible scholarships available for someone starting school in middle age?
    Many thanks for any advice you are able to provide.

    1. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Suggestions on grants/scholarships:
      * What degree is she looking at? A lot of grants/scholarships are available for specific courses. I found this was especially true for women in historically low-woman degrees, such as STEM.
      * Is work-study an option? This is less ideal than a straight scholarship but can be more attainable than a loan.
      * Can she talk with the school’s registrar or funding office? Especially if they’re geared more towards non-traditional students, they might be familiar with some of the organizations that offer funding.
      * Non-schooling assistance: can she apply for food stamps, housing assistance, or anything similar that is not directly college-related but can take some of the other ‘living’ burden off the family?

      I wish you both the best of luck!

  129. nebi-nebi*

    hello, its the angry toxic co-worker and future-workplace-shooter from last open thread!

    i was told to find a psychiatrist and get medicated to help my anger at work, so i called around to the psychiatrists in my town and found out they had such absurdly high obstacles to accepting new clients if they didn’t reject me outright (my favourite was only taking in clients who had cancer). i called around the next town over and i failed again. finally, after 23 calls, someone accepted me! his office is 34km away, this session will cost $500, and his first availability is october. i feel like i should’ve got cancer instead

    not sure what i’m supposed to do in the eight months before this psych medicates me. any tips to help hide my anger at work until that happens? last time i asked i was told to get a psych and i have one now

    1. RecentlyRetired*

      Just a suggestion: Your PCP may be able to help you with medication. They might also be able to point you to a psychiatrist with availability.

    2. SQLWitch*

      A psychiatrist is probably going to give you very limited talk-therapy in addition to the medication, and in my experience (I answer a mental-health crisis and support line that does intake and triage for our area’s professional mobile crisis team) most people with mood management issues of all sorts don’t do well without some kind of talk therapy either instead of or in addition to medication, so if I were you I’d look for that. (More in a minute.)

      In the US, the absolute *worst* way to find a psychiatrist or psychologist is to phone private practitioners offices until you find someone who’ll take you. From what I’ve seen (I moderate some online mental-health communities with majority-US populations), the two best options to get quality mental-health referrals quickly are:

      1. 211 – just dial it, it works for >90% of the population and will connect you with an information and referral specialist local to your area.

      2. NAMI – either the helpline or getting in touch with your nearest local chapter directly https://www.nami.org/findsupport

    3. RagingADHD*

      Does your job have an EAP? They may be able to help connect you with someone. And didn’t you say you had a therapist, or had tried therapy fairly recently? You should certainly keep getting regular talk therapy in the meantime, if you possibly can. Even a teletherapy app would be better than nothing.

      Asking a licensed practitioner of any kind how to manage intense anger in your specific scenarios is going to generate a lot better advice than randos on the internet.

      As a matter of fact, your current or prior therapist can probably refer you to a psychiatrist.

    4. Psych help*

      I know in my city there’s a mental hospital that does in and outpatient work. I had a horribly long intake appointment there (no book no phone just waiting) and they gave me a list of therapists and psychs who took my insurance as well as an immediate option for outpatient talk therapy at that site.

      If you explain the urgency of your mental state, I imagine that will move things along faster.

    5. Psych help*

      I forgot something – as a teen I desperately needed help and I had tricare for health insurance. The quickest way to get a therapist and a shrink was to go inpatient for 72 hours.

      If your anger has you calling yourself a future workplace shooter (!!!!), I strongly encourage you to consider this and discuss it with your primary care doc.

    6. Ask a Manager* Post author

      Hello! This is beyond what this comment section is equipped to deal with so I’m going to close this thread, but I second the advice to talk with your PCP or call 211. They’re both trained to help.

    7. AABBCC123*

      While your waiting for an appointment with the psychiatrist, have you looked into seeing either a psychologist (Ph.D. or Psy.D.) or a masters-level clinician (LCSW, LPC, LMHC, etc). While they wouldn’t be able to provide medication, they would be able to provide talk therapy , healthy coping skills, and anger management.

      You may also want to consider making an appointment with your primary care physician if you have one. They would be able to provide you with referrals and also see if there could be a medical issue (i.e. vitamin deficiencies or thyroid issues) that may be contributing to your anger.

      You might also want to do some self-reflection if possible and try to see what the source of your anger is (i.e. is it trauma-based, anxiety related, burnout related etc). Support groups could be another good option

  130. Beazley*

    Hi all – I’m looking for some experiences and/or ideas please.

    My workplace is looking to create a Diversity, Equity & Inclusion group. I’ve been asked to give some feedback on the plan. I support having a group, however I fear (based on past experiences/knowledge of how these things go) that it will result in a lot of the same people it’s meant to be helping having to put even more work and effort into something management will consider low value, and potentially tie them up from taking “high value” roles & responsibilities and therefore actually make things worse.

    Other than paying (i.e. allowance/stipend) for being part of the group, what other ways have you seen organisations ensure that members of these sorts of groups receive appropriate acknowledgement, aren’t disadvantaged by being in the group, and/or aren’t contributing to burnout? I’ve got a few ideas, but I’d love some more and hear what actually has/hasn’t worked.
    *Not in the US/not an international organisation, if that makes a difference. Happy to be referred to articles/studies.
    Thanks in advance

    1. Oh, the POSSIBILITIES!*

      I’m in a similar position and asked a related question earlier today My organization created one group on how to dismantle white supremacy and another that will offer ideas for involving people of color in the process in ways that they want to be involved without making them shoulder the burden of doing all the work. Your organization can create a similar group along with others focused on various aspects of DEI and ensure that everyone participates in at least one group. Make sure work is distributed equally among the groups and include progress toward DEI goals in everyone’s performance reviews. I would love to hear your ideas.

      1. Beazley*

        That’s really helpful (and coincidental), thank you.
        I 100% agree I would like to see it included in performance reviews, but many/most managers, and therefore many staff, will just see that as a check-box. The organisation does very little hiring/firing/promoting based on performance reviews, and doesn’t do bonuses at all (government-equivalent industry)
        I can’t see a scenario where everyone is in a group (500+ staff), and at the moment they haven’t identified what problems specifically they want to tackle (the group will identify those). The forming of the group is a bit of a check-box exercise in my case, but I believe they may embrace (some) real changes that the group suggests. I’ll respond to your question some of the ways I’m suggesting they share the love.

    2. desdemona*

      Anti-Racism Daily (a newsletter) has some articles about this, and I think even has training courses in DEI initiatives.

      So not an exact response to your question (I apologize!) but I hope it can be a useful resource for you. Their website is the-ard.com .

  131. JobSeeker101*

    Sorry if I missed it in the comments but what is this “recession” that some of the commentors seem to talk about? Did I miss an article or news about it? Is it only a US thing?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I’m in the US and there has been a general sense that a recession is coming in the near future. I think this is a mixture of (1) the massive amounts of hiring that happened (in the US at least) in 2021/2022, (2) high levels of inflation in 2022, and (3) the Federal Reserve Bank of the US raising interest rates in response to inflation. When the US had high levels of inflation in the 70s, the Federal Reserve was quite open about the fact that they were going to raise interest rates to get inflation under control, and they didn’t care that those actions would drive up the unemployment rate. Also, there have been a lot of layoffs in the news recently because tech companies specifically have been laying off workers (in the US at least). But as other commenters have mentioned in those other threads, the US economy added jobs overall last quarter.

      tl;dr is no, you didn’t miss anything. There is no recession right now, just a lot of people in the US worried that one may be right around the corner.

  132. Janne*

    So I’m in a computer calculations kind of role, and the 7 colleagues that I share an office with do practical work in a lab. The amount of lab work seems to be dwindling, and the amount of work that I have is growing. Actually one of my biggest projects is one that replaces some of these colleagues with a robot.
    I understand why my colleagues are jealous, worried, and so on.
    Still it takes a lot of energy from me to have all of their FEELINGS around me in the office all day, when they don’t have enough to do and I have a footlong to do list.

    – I have asked for a desk in a different office and I might get one as soon as desk arrangements are changed, which is maybe in March but maybe not.
    – Some of my colleagues are more technically inclined and my supervisor already got them to take over some of my easier tasks. That leaves the colleagues who just really want to do lab work that is not there. And they get more annoyed.
    – I can work from home one day in the week, so when I can’t handle it anymore I work from home the next day.
    – We don’t really have flexible schedules (I need to be in 8-16:30) but I can come early or stay late sometimes so that I can work without people complaining around me.
    – I tried to talk to these colleagues’ manager, but he doesn’t think he needs to do anything about the lack of work/direction. (I fall under someone elses management, but my manager doesn’t have the authority to get their manager to do anything.)

    I would love tips from you on how to deal with this.
    I hope I described it clearly!

    1. WellRed*

      Does your manager have authority to flex up your hours more? More work from home? Can you tell your manager some clear impacts on your ability to do your job?

      1. Janne*

        My manager wants me to follow the same rules for flex hours and work-from-home as the colleagues that I share the office with, because then they at least don’t feel jealous about that. I need to be in at 8 every day like my colleagues (or Zoom call from home at 8) and I can work from home 1 day in the week.

        I’m going to list the impact on the quality/amount of work that I can do. That’s a great idea. Thanks :)

    2. Heffalump*

      Your manager may not be able to outright make your colleagues’ manager do anything. But would the concerns carry more weight coming from your mananger than from you?

      1. Janne*

        I should at least discuss this clearly with my manager and you’re right, he has more chance of convincing the other manager that something needs to be done about this. Thanks :)

  134. Lifelong student*

    I posted a few weeks ago- maybe six weeks- about tipping a house cleaner who has been erratic about keeping to the schedule. (I tried to search to find out when but couldn’t figure out how to search for prior posts.) Anyhow- it was before Christmas and she was scheduled to come that week but ended up canceling, saying she would call on the next Monday about rescheduling. Did not call. Came the next scheduled day- apologized for the failure to call. We had a discussion about the lack of call and the late notice. She did express some annoyance at the level of my expectations. I gave her the tip. I thought we had come to a level of working together. Two weeks later- the next scheduled day she was a no-call, no show and has not responded to my follow up call. I guess we are done. Comments?

    1. Lifelong student*

      I forgot to add- after the first visit after Christmas- she called again to cancel the next scheduled visit- but did actually call earlier than last minute- which I told her I appreciated. It was the next one after that that was the no call, no show.

    2. NR*

      I suggest putting this on the non-work thread and you’ll get more responses, the Friday one is usually dead by this time on Saturday!

  135. Starry starry night*

    App recommendation, please:

    At my workplace, there’s increasing pressure from management for us to work from the office again. The rule is we have to be in 3 days of the week (for full-time staff).

    Can any of you recommend a simple app that I can use to track where I’ve worked on which day? There are only ever these three options: wfh, office or non-working day. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

  136. MultitaskingH8r*

    Any job/career recommendations for someone who hates multitasking? (Me)

    I like to focus on accomplishing one task at a time and working on multiple projects really hampers my ability to get things done. I used to work in AI research and then at an AI start-up and the expectation to do 10 different projects at the same time was absolutely destroying my productivity. I quit the industry (likely for good) to do something more socially beneficial with my time but it feels like literally every job description wants you to be able to multitask. I don’t mind having multiple projects/tasks to complete, but the constant switching is such a hassle. It’s just not realistic.

    Jobs I can think of where you get to focus on one thing at a time is something like Firefighter or Mail Carrier – any other ideas, folks? I’m open to all suggestions!

    1. Eyes Kiwami*

      I think every role will write “good at multitasking” but fewer actually require it. I would look for in-house vs external consultant type roles (where every hour is billable).

Comments are closed.