should I be worried by how pushy an employer was with a job offer over a holiday weekend?

by Alison Green on May 31, 2023

A reader writes:

I found out about two weeks ago, verbally, that I was the chosen candidate for a job. It took them two weeks to send me the offer letter, which was sent past 9 pm on Friday night in their time zone (Pacific time). I am located in Eastern time right now, so it was after midnight. The email actually said, “Please give me a call to talk about this tonight or tomorrow morning.” WHHHHAAAT?

My out-of-office responder was already on and said that I was away from email for Memorial Day weekend and would likely not respond to emails until my return on Wednesday.

On Monday, Memorial Day, their office was closed, yet I received an email from the person who would be my supervisor letting me know they were available that day to talk about the job offer.

While I understand that I am a high-value candidate and they’re eager to have me accept the offer, this is freaking me out. My personal and family time is extremely important to me, and I conveyed that repeatedly in the FIVE interviews they put me through to get this job. I asked repeatedly about work-life balance because my current workplace has zero boundaries (my current boss once told me that because I’m exempt, that means I’m supposed to be available and answer emails 24/7, which I squashed flat). It deeply worries me that they expect me to respond to them on weekends and on holidays.

I’m strongly opposed to any workplace creating an expectation that employees should be available at midnight or on weekends or holidays unless it’s actually written into their job description and is actually necessary. I have zero intention of responding to them until Wednesday. But this is upsetting and frustrating, to the point I may turn down the job as a result. I like these people, and I know them. I work in a small industry and I have kind of always idealized their organization and wanted to work there. But I deeply value my ability to separate my life from my job and have time to myself to decompress and throughout this process they have made me feel that if I choose to work there, I will never have free time again outside of work. If I don’t accept the job, I can expect some career fallout because of the tightness of the industry, but if I accept it, I’m afraid I’ll be miserable and end up quitting, so same result.

Side note: These incidents are not isolated. The recruiter has contacted me at absurd times 6-7 other times throughout the process.

Yeah, that’s concerning.

I’d feel differently if they had caveated it — like if they’d said, “I realize it’s a holiday weekend and you may not be available, but if there’s any chance you could connect before Tuesday, I’d be grateful because ____ (I’m heading out on Wednesday for a three-week leave and won’t be reachable by phone/you’re our strong first choice, but our second-choice candidate needs to respond to another offer by mid-week/our phones are all scheduled to self-destruct on Wednesday).” I’d feel even better about if it they apologized for the rush.

The fact that they didn’t acknowledge it was the weekend or that your auto-reply said you were away is worrisome.

And asking you to call them back “tonight or tomorrow morning” when it was past midnight your time is A Lot. (I’m guessing they might not have thought about the time difference. But even at 9 pm their time, that’s A Lot.)

I’m curious how they responded when you brought up your boundaries around your time when you were interviewing. Did they seem to hear you and give credible-sounding replies that convinced you they’d respect your boundaries? Or is the reason you were bringing it up repeatedly in those five interviews because you weren’t hearing responses that convinced you?

Either way, it’s a reasonable thing to ask about now, and even more so since you know them outside of the hiring process. When you call to discuss the offer, you could say, “I wanted to ask about the urgency around the offer over the holiday weekend. We talked in the interview process about how important it is to me to disconnect outside of work hours, and I want to be up-front that asking me to call about the offer so late on Friday night and then on the holiday on Monday has wondering if I’m the right match on that front.”

It’s too late for this now, but I’m torn on whether it would have been worth responding over the weekend with, “I’m away through Tuesday but will give you a call on Wednesday morning.” On one hand, your auto-reply already made that clear. On the other hand, if you might end up wanting the offer, it’s usually smarter to acknowledge you received it and give a timeline for replying back (especially since there was going to be a full workday in there, Tuesday, before you planned to respond). And it might have been interesting to see if they immediately backed off or stayed pushy.

In any case, how much due diligence have you done on this employer as far as culture and expectations around off-hours availability? Have you talked to people who work there (outside of your formal interviews) about those expectations and tried to get a candid read on it, especially since you know people there? If you haven’t done that yet, I’d prioritize doing it now, regardless of what they say about this past weekend.

In general, though, it’s usually pretty safe to assume that if you’re seeing things that alarm you from the hiring manager during the hiring process — not necessarily the recruiter, but the manager themselves — you’re not going to see less of that once you’re working for them. But have the conversation and see what they say.

Read an update to this letter. 

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  1. couldhavebeenanemail*

    Is it a start-up? I’ve worked for three and this seems to be par for the course. Not saying it’s correct, but they present a whole host of challenges to the norm, so definitely worth a long think before joining.

    1. RedinSC*

      I remember interviewing at a start up, and after the first interview (only 1!) the hiring manager left the room for a moment, came back and then wrote a number on the white board….Is this an acceptable salary? When can you start!

      Uuuuuuhhhhhhh

      1. Just Another Techie*

        I had a job offer at a startup after a single 45 minute interview. I was like “uhhh, can I schedule some calls with other members of the team before I make up my mind?”

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          This feels borrowed from retail hiring–Barbara Ehrenreich wrote about it in Nickel and Dimed. You go into an interview at, say, Target, you start out answering the standard interview questions and filling out an application, and suddenly they’re handing you name badges and telling you who to talk to for W2s and scheduling.

          At no point do they actually make an offer, eliminating the chance to negotiate (or even ask) about salary or benefits. You’re less hired than you are simply assimilated.

          1. Caroline*

            Yes! Quite a lot of companies do this, especially for higher-turnover type positions. They just assume a person will want whatever they’re offered, won’t quibble, argue or remotely advocate for themselves and that’s the end of the matter.

            Which always makes me very irritable!

            Unless *at the very beginning, when one is applying / reading the job listing or similar* there is a clear outline of exactly what the process will be, the salary, expected hours… ALLL of it, BEFORE a person applies, so that they have all of the relevant information and aren’t just sleep walking into a role that may or may not be in their interests to take.

      2. lilsheba*

        Back in the old days this was how it used to be and it was a lot quicker and more efficient than it is now. You went in and you came out knowing whether you have a job or not. Now it’s insane.

        1. Vio*

          There’s always pros and cons to different approaches but it is something of a red flag when a prospective employer treats the interview process as one-way. It’s not. It’s both for them to evaluate you and for you to evaluate them. It’s for their questions and your questions.
          If there’s only the one (or few) vacancy then it’s also worrying that they’d be willing to make a decision so quickly. If there’s lots of open positions (which could be alarming itself in some circumstances but is perfectly normal if opening a new location for example) then it can make more sense, they’re not brushing aside the other interviewees because they can still hire them as well.

  2. lost academic*

    Run awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

    I’m in consulting and have been for two decades with all of the ‘responsiveness’ you’d expected or fear, and I’d run.

    1. Me*

      This. I regret not paying attention to the red flags in the hiring process for what I thought would be an amazing job. (Spoiler alert, it wasn’t, not because of the role but because of the culture and the leadership)

      1. Goldenrod*

        I had a similar experience. When I was offered the job, I mentioned that I would need more than the usual two weeks notice due to a pre-planned vacation – but it was literally just one more week.

        The hiring manager (who turned out to be awful when I eventually was working there) completely blanched, and I seriously thought she was going to retract the job offer for a moment…until she confirmed that the person I would be reporting to was on vacation that week too, so it was fine.

        This seemed VERY weird, and like a red flag…and it was!! My eventual boss was demanding and unreasonable.

        I say that if you have other options, don’t take it! In my case, I needed the job so badly that I took it anyway. But in your case, I would run!

        1. Ms. Coffee*

          Red flag! Red flag!!!

          I had a similar experience during interviews for what became my most toxic workplace. The manager was up my butt, calling late, asking for responses on tight timelines. I remember saying to my now-husband after one particularly aggressive email, “Maybe I should just cancel the next interview. I don’t think I want this job anyway.”

          And then they offered me a larger salary than I was expecting and I took the job. And it nearly ruined my life. That manager was calling me and texting me with very non-crucial requests while I was on my honeymoon, during doctor’s appointments, at 6 am, at midnight, etc. If I didn’t answer my work phone, he called my personal cell. He expected me to come in early and work late on things that were absolutely not urgent anywhere outside his own head. Whenever I tried to take vacation time, he pushed back. He was a micromanaging narcissist and I was miserable.

          Run Away!!

          2. Caroline*

            Was he the kind of boss who completely felt entitled to all of your time and to give long lectures on your perceived shortcomings?

            I had one like that where, wait for it, I was a freelance, very much part-time person on a pitifully low rate of pay. If ever I pushed back on something – big or small – there was immediate outrage and demands that I do whatever it was, BUT when I resigned and explained why, there was ”but why did you NOT RAISE ANY ISSUES” followed by a long diatribe on how I really was pretty poor at the role anyway, and how could I even THINK of resigning and how dare I… blah blah.

  3. Critical Rolls*

    Keep in mind that the consequences of turning down the job now are likely to be a lot smaller than taking it and regretting it, whether you can’t stand it and quit in a fortnight or resign yourself to slogging through to some “not too soon to leave” time frame.

    1. goddessoftransitory*

      Agreed. Not taking the job can be explained by a simple “bad timing” or similar vague but reasonable statement. Walking away because you can’t stand the clown death metal concert that is every workday is much harder to get across, even when it shouldn’t be.

      1. MassMatt*

        I wish I could upvote for the oblique Insane Clown Posse reference. I have had a couple interviews at places that definitely resembled the Gathering of the Juggalos.

    3. Antilles*

      The other (equally terrifying) alternative is that it’s just them on their totally normal behavior.
      In other words, that “sending emails at 9 PM on a Friday night of a holiday weekend and expecting immediate responses” is so commonplace in their company culture that they legitimately don’t recognize it’s a wild ask.

  5. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

    The email actually said, “Please give me a call to talk about this tonight or tomorrow morning.” WHHHHAAAT?

    Irrespective of time zones, that jumped out as a red flag to me. If the offer in writing doesn’t speak for itself, that’d be enough alone to make me make me step back and reevaluate everything up to that point.

    1. umami*

      Or that they didn’t call the candidate themselves? I’m not sure if it is a red flag or just an over-enthusiastic hiring manager who is excited to talk to the candidate as soon as possible but also didn’t want to call them on the weekend and put the ball in their court.

      1. Yorick*

        This is kinda how I interpreted it. It’s not that they necessarily expected OP to call immediately, but they were available to talk if OP wanted. I would have worded it a little differently in that case, but still. Also, I wouldn’t expect someone’s vacation time from their current job necessarily means they won’t do any communication related to their job search.

        1. umami*

          This exactly. They saw the OOO and didn’t contact the OP again until Monday, so it doesn’t really feel like a WLB issue or a red flag. I would see it as a positive thing if my soon-to-be new boss wanted to talk to me about the onboarding process sooner rather than later, especially if they want to make sure OP has everything they need to move forward and also give notice. I get that others here see it as an issue (as did OP), but usually people who are job searching have already committed to leaving their current place of employment mentally and would like to know that the formal offer is now ready so they can move forward.

          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Sure it’s a positive thing for the new boss to want to speak about onboarding but not at 9:00 on a Friday night of a holiday weekend (or, you know, midnight on Sat OP’s time or even during the day on Sat). And also it took them two weeks to get the offer letter sent out, which is ridiculous. If they didn’t need OP so desperately that they could take two weeks to get the offer letter to OP, then they also don’t need to speak to OP during the holiday weekend.

            1. umami*

              I don’t think the first message was from the supervisor, the supervisor sent the Monday message. The first message was from whomever sends the offer letter. Neither of them reached back out after seeing the OOO.

              In my industry, two weeks to receive and review credentials for a salary offer and background check is routine. I’m a little surprised at how that seems unusually long to others or that offering to discuss the formal offer once it’s sent is an overreach. It already took 2 weeks, why should they expect that the OP wants to continue waiting nearly another week to discuss it?

            2. Rubber Ducky*

              Yeah, I agree with the after hours thing but not with passing negative judgment on it taking two weeks to get an offer letter out. In our organization our procedure is to make a verbal offer contingent upon a successful criminal background check and reference check. If/when everything checks out, an official offer letter is produced. Often due to many factors outside of our control, completing these things can easily take a couple of weeks. (the length of time a background check takes to clear is unpredictable as is the response time of the references) And that’s assuming that everyone in the chain of making that happen is available. One link in that chain being out of the office unexpectedly can further delay the process. Hiring is one of our priorities for sure but it’s not our ONLY priority. Sometimes other things take precedence and it’s not “ridiculous” for things to move slower than expected at times.

              1. Caroline*

                This is all true, absolutely. I did recruitment on the HR side and things can be slowed down for many reasons. Where it is an ongoing issue is when companies tell candidates that they can expect an offer or feedback or whatever in X amount of time, then simply don’t have the courtesy to say anything further, for weeks, quite often. THEN it’s suddenly a ”hurry, hurry, we need your answer NOW” situation. This is very common.

          2. MassMatt*

            “They saw the OOO and didn’t contact the OP again until Monday, so it doesn’t really feel like a WLB issue or a red flag.”

            It’s definitely a red flag about how work-life balance will be at this workplace. They expected a call back that night or tomorrow morning on an email the LW received at MIDNIGHT, and the Monday contact was Memorial Day.

            This company clearly is unfamiliar with the concept of weekends or holidays.

        2. Rose*

          If they just wanted OP to know they were available, they should absolutely not have said “please give me a call” and then given to time windows, one of which was late Friday night and the other Saturday morning.

          “Please give me a call” is a request for a specific action. Something like “we’re eager to hear from you, I’m around tonight or tomorrow if you’d like to talk/ have time to talk” is… frankly still a yellow flag on the Friday night of a long weekend, but fine. Asking someone to call you late Friday or early on a weekend morning is weird and is definitely a red flag.

      2. ecnaseener*

        I mean, it would be much worse if they did call at midnight! Or even on a weekend morning! That part seems totally normal to me — if you have exciting news but it’s midnight, you email and say call me when you’re available.

        1. HonorBox*

          All of these comments may be true. But if the question is whether or not this is a red flag when the OP has highlighted the importance they put on work/life balance, it would likely be that. The first message said “please give me a call…” not “if you’d like to chat.” And the supervisor reaching out on a holiday when the office is closed shows they’re working. Maybe they’re excited about bringing the OP on to the team. But they’re not doing so in a way that provides any context or any sort of understanding that OP may not be checking email over a holiday. And yes, job searching may lead to differences in how and when you check email… but who on earth is expecting to get a “please give me a call” message on a Friday night in the middle of the night and then another message from someone else on a holiday?

        2. Rose*

          But they didn’t say call me when you are available, they said call me tonight or tomorrow morning. The fact that they had the basic manners to say please doesn’t mean they really phrased it as being optional. And knowing the pressure candidates face to impress a (potential) new job, I would never ask someone to call me on a weekend night or morning, or after 9 PM ( generously, assuming they forgot the time difference).

    2. I should really pick a name*

      I wouldn’t consider the lack of a detailed offer to be a red flag.
      The call could involve determining things like start date which would be in the eventual written offer.

      It’s just a procedural detail.

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I’d be expecting promises to be made that are not in writing that the company can’t be held to. “Sure, you can work 4×10 and have Fridays off.” “Sure, we’ll match your HSA contributions 100%.” et cetera… then a month after LW has onboarded, all those promises start getting walked back.

        It’s not the lack of detail per se. It’s that the offer needs verbal “accompaniment” to be desirable.

        1. umami*

          Calls with an offer letter are par for the course where I work so we can ensure candidates know the offer expires in X days and needs to be accepted in the system before that, and also to answer any questions concerning the benefits list that accompanies the letter. There’s nothing underhanded happening.

        2. Random Dice*

          That seems like a trauma response rather than a normal expectation for employers. I’m sorry if you were burned!

          1. MassMatt*

            I’d also be very leery of any exceptions made to things like vacation policy, unusual working hours, flex time or working from home that were not in writing, especially if they contradicted the written offer. I’ve known too many people who have been burned (and we’ve seen many letters here) to not insist on important details being written.

        3. I should really pick a name*

          I wouldn’t be concerned about that unless I didn’t receive a written offer after the call.

          1. AngryOctopus*

            Yes. And for my current job, it went like this: given oral offer over phone, with all details of salary/bonus/benefits. If I wanted to accept, then they move forward with the background check/drug test. After those are clear I get a written offer that I signed and sent back. So it’s not unusual to get a phone call with the details, but they should also be telling you a firm timeline for the written offer to come through.

      2. Caroline*

        I would. In my HR brain, anything not written down does not count at all and can be reneged on at a whim.

        Likewise, if there are troubling little clauses in contracts and offers that are dismissed as ”just pro forma” but then there’s no possibility of them being changed, that’s a big red flag too.

        ”Oh we NEVER insist on X or Y, that’s just a formality” = ”we totally can at any moment change our minds and you can do jack about that, so.”.

    3. Totally Minnie*

      I have called my boss after 9PM once in the last 5 years, and that’s because I was in the hospital and figured I may as well go ahead and call in for the next day. For anything that’s less of an emergency than that, no, I’m not making a business call after 9PM. This was such a weird ask.

      1. ferrina*

        Yep. I’ve had a few work issues that required late night communications- hiring was never one of them. I might make a late night call if that was the only time the candidate was available; I’d never ask the candidate to make themselves available in the evening if they were available during the work day.

      2. LaReesa*

        Yeah, the people saying this isn’t a red flag – the fact that ANYONE at the company is working at 9 p.m. on a Friday before a holiday weekend is a red flag to me. And a second person (hiring manager) working on Memorial Day. If the offer letter wasn’t done at 5 p.m. on Friday, it should have been pushed to Tuesday’s workload. It’s clearly not that urgent if it took them two weeks to put together the letter. However, I’m of the belief that almost no job requires working at 9 p.m. on a Friday (besides obviously emergency rooms, fire departments, etc.) So weird.

      3. zuzu*

        I called once when the library was flooding.

        He was very happy I called. Not so happy about the flooding, but happy I happened to notice the flooding as I was leaving my evening reference shift one rainy night so he could make the proper calls and drag facilities as well as the general contractors whose guys hadn’t properly sealed up something or other in the part of the library being renovated out to deal with things.

        Other than that, not going to make business calls late at night.

    4. CommanderBanana*

      This is whackadoodle, especially since it took them 2 weeks to get OP the offer letter.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        Oh yes, this. THEY could take two weeks to get the written offer out, but LW had to respond almost immediately. That’s…not great.

        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          Yup, I agree and just commented as such above. Totally ridiculous. It’s a “lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part” kind of thing.

          1. Rubber Ducky*

            Two weeks to get an offer letter out doesn’t indicate “lack of preparation” but it does indicate that you have never been on the backside of hiring. Either that, or you live in a perfect world where you can just snap your fingers and something appears. Most companies/organizations have hiring procedures in place to make sure that everything is done in a proper and legal way. Following that procedure doesn’t (generally) happen overnight. There very well could be other red flags here but it taking two weeks to produce an offer letter shouldn’t be considered one of them.

            1. Fikly*

              You seem to be bending over backwards to misunderstand the issue here.

              It’s not that they took 2 weeks to produce an offer letter. It’s that they took 2 weeks to produce an offer letter and then wanted to speak to the candidate “tonight or tomorrow morning” when it was already 9pm on a Friday night on a holiday weekend.

              That’s the red flag. The massive double standard and the clear lack of any care for the employee’s time when not working.

              1. jes*

                I just read it as they are OFFERING to speak to the candidate asap to address any questions and discuss, and not DEMANDING. Sure, they could have worded it differently to make that more clear, e.g. “Please give me a call if you’d like to discuss”, but sometimes people don’t word things perfectly. They might have drafted a whole long explanation and then deleted it and just wrote “please give me a call”. Also they may have written the offer email days in advance and then were waiting on one final signoff or piece of documentation from someone else, and then just pressed SEND before the holiday weekend without remembering to change that line. I’d say it’s worth asking the company about the expectations to be available on weekends, and even point to this email as something that raised potential concerns for you, but unless you have another amazing offer that you’re just dying to take, I wouldn’t take this as a reason to run away screaming.

              2. jes*

                I don’t see it as a red flag or reason to walk away. Something to ask about, yes, but could have been a harmless error, e.g. maybe the email was drafted days in advance and they were waiting for one final internal signoff before sending, then sent it out before the holiday weekend and forgot to change the line about “tonight or tomorrow”. And I read it as they are OFFERING to speak to the candidate asap, not DEMANDING that you drop your holiday activities to talk. Yes they could have worded it more clearly, e.g. “please give me a call if you’d like to discuss”, but I think it’s a mistake to read too much into what could just be hasty wording.

            2. CommanderBanana*

              Stop. I have been on the backside of hiring and I do understand how long offer letters can take, especially if there’s any negotiation.

              1. whynot*

                omg I heard that. Good call, CommanderBanana. To balk at two weeks is just so naive.

  6. Roland Deschain*

    I’m confused by the line “If I don’t accept the job, I can expect some career fallout”. as long as you decline gracefully, I’m not sure what these repercussions might be.

    1. Well...*

      It depends on the field, but in small circles people can be weird about these things. I know of some examples that got people labeled as not ambitious, etc.

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      Add in the part you left out at the end: “because of the tightness of the industry”.

      OP also mentioned “I work in a small industry”.

      So yeah, I can imagine that this is a very real possibility.

      Of course, it could also go the other way: “Wait, you turned down a job offer at XYZ Corp? Tell me more, you badass you!”

    3. Goldenrod*

      I feel like, no matter what the industry, there are so many varied reasons for turning down a job that I can’t see any realistic way this could have repercussions (as long as you are polite and civil when you turn it down). People turn down jobs for a million reasons. You don’t have to tell them it’s because they are clearly a-holes!

    4. Lost academic*

      Because some people assume that just because you applied you’d be expected to accept an offer because clearly you want to do that and hour date you waste their time in the process otherwise, you must be a liar etc. It’s nonsensical but there really are people who believe the act of applying for a job creates an obligation between you and the place you’re applying like that.

      1. umami*

        They already accepted a verbal offer, so they have already agreed to negotiate a formal offer.

          1. umami*

            Neither message indicated OP needed to accept the offer. Both were about discussing it, according to OP.

    5. Fish*

      I heard of someone whose industry expected people in her job specialty, to change companies at a certain level in order to continue up the career ladder.

      Because of fear of change, she didn’t make the move at the expected time. Then later when she’d become bored and did want something different, every interviewer asked her why she hadn’t made the move already.

    6. zuzu*

      Could be the employer OP turned down might tell the current employer. Or might drag OP’s name through the mud.

  7. Well...*

    I can only think of one exception to this, and it’s in fields with international hiring deadlines, see e.g. insti.physics.sunysb.edu/itp/postdoc-agreement.html and sites.google.com/site/postdocrumor/. The pressure for people to respond to job offers around that deadline is very high, and I actually have been privy to situations where someone sat on a nice offer because they were away on vacation. They ultimately turned down the offer, and the institute lost several other good candidates who had to accept sub-par offers that were about to get pulled due to the deadline. The whole field gets mad when something like that happens (and in this case, the person decided against staying in academia, leaving behind a grenade in their wake).

    Not that my field has amazing work-life balance, but you definitely don’t need to be on 24hr a day and can take vacations. But when you’re sitting on an offer around the international deadline, not responding to emails in a day isn’t great, as there’s a domino effect that can impact many people’s careers, what countries they end up moving to, their ability to solve 2-body problems, etc.

    It seems like LW would be aware of this if it were relevant to their field, though, so Allison’s advice stands.

    1. Bast*

      I was in a similar situation not too long ago, and also conflicted as to whether or not it was a red flag. I interviewed on a Friday, and was offered a job on the spot. I asked them to please give me the weekend to think it over. Saturday at noon I get a call asking if I’ve thought it over. I explain that I am spending time with my family, which is very important to me, but assured them I would get back to them Monday by the end of business. I got another call Sunday. When I did not answer the call, I received both a voicemail and a text. I turned the job down and he was very confused and angry as to why. After speaking with a former colleague who worked there for a spell, I found out him calling outside of business hours and not respecting boundaries is the norm. listen to your gut on this one.

  8. Daniel*

    “…throughout this process they have made me feel that if I choose to work there, I will never have free time again outside of work.”

    I think this is your answer there. If that’s how they’re treating you while they are trying to recruit you, I wouldn’t expect it to get any better once you’re actually working for them. especially if it’s consistent over five interviews.

    Also, people turn down offers all the time–I’m confident you won’t do yourself any damage by doing so here, especially if you’re a high-value candidate. I certainly would. Although I still hope you call them tomorrow and ask them about that timeframe you were pushing, just out of curiosity’s sake.

    1. Chutney Jitney*

      Yeah, I think the weekend urgency stuff is a red herring. This sentence is the one. **You will never have free time again**. Holy wow.

      OP, you already know the answer here, but for some reason, you’ve continued in the process. I’m guessing it’s the idolization? Or maybe you’re so desperate to get out of your current job you’re overlooking the red flag warning on this one? Trust your instincts.

  9. Lily Rowan*

    I remember being a little freaked out by after-hours emails from the hiring manager who turned into my boss, but she never expected replies outside of business hours, which turned out to be true going forward.

    1. Colette*

      Yeah, I’ve definitely worked with people who worked ridiculous hours but who did not expect anyone else to do the same.

    2. umami*

      This is me – I send emails at strange hours because I tend to wake up at 3 am and feel the need to be productive so I don’t continuously binge-watch Forensic Files, but I include a disclaimer that unless otherwise indicated, replies are not expected outside of regular office hours. My staff know this well, but I can see how an outsider might think there was some expectation of responding if they didn’t know me or didn’t get to the bottom of the email and see the disclaimer.

      1. Venus*

        You don’t say “Call me tonight” in the email! I think your disclaimer is useful but the expectations in this case are clear about a phone call on a holiday weekend.

        1. umami*

          If I am calling a candidate with good news (your offer is ready, let’s discuss!), I probably would say to reach out tonight if they wanted to, because I imagine most candidates would be glad to hear we are at that point. Letting them know I am available if they want to discuss it right away is a bit different than saying it’s required, so I wouldn’t view it as a red flag. Having said that, if I didn’t hear back from the candidate, I wouldn’t see that as a red flag if I saw their message that they were unavailable until Wednesday.

      2. botanist*

        That disclaimer you include is the difference between you and the hiring manager- they specifically said they would like a call that evening or the next day (Saturday). Definitely concerning as one of your few data points.

    3. ferrina*

      Sure, but those bosses don’t say “call me tonight or tomorrow [Saturday]”.

      I’ve been that person- I had some weird timestamps on my emails. But I never asked for a response until they had had the appropriate amount of time during standard business hours. I certainly would have never asked for an off-hours phone call for a non-emergency issue (and hiring is a non-emergency).

  10. Katrina*

    At a generous reading, the person could have known there was a 3-hour difference and went the wrong direction. (Thinking it was 6pm for OP rather than midnight.) That’s about the only benefit of the doubt I can give them, though. Everything else is just…no.

    1. Janeric*

      Or they had that in “draft” for a few hours, waiting for one more piece of information, and then when they shut down their computer for the weekend they were like “whoops I was supposed to send this four hours ago!” without remembering specifics about the contents.* (but then again everything else is “no”)

      *I have done this, but not for hiring — sometimes personal stuff** comes up before a holiday weekend and I try to finish a couple of things in the evening to compensate.

      ** My mother calls me at 2PM on the day before Thanksgiving and says “I couldn’t buy a turkey ANYWHERE.”

      1. SpaceySteph*

        That’s me writing emails and sending them without realizing my VPN dropped and they all got stuck in my outbox until I log back in later and a bunch of ill-timed emails go out.

        That said, there should definitely have been some disclaimer/acknowledgement on the Monday email like “but also no problem if we wait until Wednesday per your out of office,” or with a justification why they needed to talk sooner than Wednesday.

    2. umami*

      I also wonder if there was a set amount of time to accept the offer before it would expire. I noted that they reached out again on Memorial Day, which is also strange, but again, when people are job-hunting, maybe the hiring manager thought it would be better to discuss before the candidate was going to be back at their current job, and if they had a deadline for it to be accepted, they wanted to catch them after normal hours. That doesn’t seem odd to me; I generally try to handle hiring stuff either late in the day or right after ‘quitting/commute time’ so I am not calling people while they might still be at work. That’s why I’m surprised OP wasn’t using their personal contact information – I wouldn’t expect to see an out of office message when emailing a candidate for a job.

    3. Coverage Associate*

      I have done confused which way with time zones. I have also not realized an email was stuck in my outbox.

  11. T.N.H.*

    One quick note though, don’t take anything the recruiter did into account, unless they’re in house and even then give it very little weight. Recruiters are notoriously pushy and when they come from an outside company, they don’t reflect the organization culture at all. Sometimes internal recruiters are so siloed they don’t either but it’s less of a distinction there.

    1. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Concurring on recruiters, as I had to inform one particular third party company that cold-calling my work line (due to system set up and when they called, they most likely had to talk to our receptionist) and leaving a message that could be construed incorrectly should my bosses listen to it, and emailing my work email, was flat out of bounds.

      That was last week, for the record. And I’m not even looking.

    2. The Original K.*

      I agree, but OP did say that their would-be boss reached out on Memorial Day, so there’s cause for concern.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        I agree but then I pictured them sitting at a family barbecue, bored, and going through work stuff so they don’t have to talk to goofy Aunt Mabel. :D

    3. Bang Pow*

      I have not ever found that in-house recruiters are pushy, but that’s just my experience. They and hiring managers know they have their choice of candidates and are very, you can take us or leave us. Maybe I just need to be a better candidate to get internal recruiters to be pushy :).

      I wouldn’t worry about how the recruiter operates bc you don’t report to the recruiter. I’m more concerned with how my potential manager operates. I’m only dealing with the recruiter for a few weeks, and I can blow off emails at odd hours that long. I have to deal with my manager for the duration of our employment there, so I’d want to know if doing business on a holiday is typical. For all we know, the manager had their own BBQ plans that they didn’t want to disrupt but felt obligated to be available in case LW was eager to discuss the offer.

    4. Delta Delta*

      I was sort of wondering if this was an internal or external recruiter. If it’s an external recruiter, the company may be okay but are using a terrible recruiter. If it’s internal, it may still be okay, but there would definitely be some flags.

  12. Aelfwynn*

    This is tangentially related, but I’ve heard advice before (I’m not sure if it’s good advice or not, honestly) that a candidate should never ask about PTO in an interview because the employer will think you’re not serious/committed to the job. I think this is kind of BS because if the company has an issue with their folks wanting PTO, that says something terrible about the company, but that said, I’ve always been hesitant to ask about it in interviews because of this.

    If this advice is true, does the same apply to discussing work/life balance in an interview? I, too, want to keep work and regular life separate and not be in a job where I have to work bonkers hours, but I’d be afraid to ask about it in an interview because I’m afraid it would reflect poorly on me (unfairly). Is this a thing that happens or is this just bad advice from previous generations?

    1. AnonForThis*

      Always ask about leave! You don’t want to work for anyone who thinks that time off means not being serious. That’s the kind of company that will also consider doing exactly what you contracted for as “quiet quitting.”

      I asked someone who worked where I was interviewing about leave so I could go into the interview saying “I know you usually offer x, but I also know you sometimes offer x+y because of z. I have z.”

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      It’s not good advice. I’m applying to be an employee not an indentured servant.

      Having a job is a business relationship, and like any relationship I should be able to get what I want and need out of it.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      I have asked variations on “what hours do people [on this team/in this job] typically work at Company X?” at job interviews before and I never felt it was taken badly by the interviewers. I phrase the question this way because it allows me to screen out both places that make it clear they work too many hours (ex. “everyone works 7 to 7”) and also places that don’t fit my circadian rhythm (ex. “most people on the team start at 6am so they can be out of work by 3pm”).

    4. Elitist Semicolon*

      I think it’s not-great advice. If you want to keep your separation enough to ask about it and they balk, then there’s your answer. Unless you’re okay with starting a job, possibly getting into bonkers hours, and then having that discussion afterward, there’s really no other way to know.

    5. umami*

      I wouldn’t talk about it in a screening interview, but if you are in a second or more round, then benefits should absolutely be something that’s discussed. If the interviewer doesn’t bring it up, it’s certainly fair to bring up as a candidate.

      1. pally*

        I’m finding that the person conducting the screening interview is bringing up the benefits package. No prompting whatsoever on my part. And they go into PTO, medical/dental/ vision, retirement, etc.
        And I’ve asked for clarification on some aspect of the benefits outlined.

        No issue taken with my doing this. I made sure this was just 2 minutes of the entire interview- not the focus.

    6. Venus*

      It’s fair to ask about both. The advice is to not lead with those questions, and to find the right time. For example at some point they will mention salary, and then PTO, health insurance, work/life balance, and other topics have a natural discussion point.

    7. FrivYeti*

      I’ve never heard that. I’ve heard that you shouldn’t ask about it in your *first* interview, but not that you shouldn’t ask about it in any interview.

    8. Tara*

      I’d say it’s bad advice. I’m not a hiring manager, but I always ask about benefits and salary- salary at the first opportunity. Make sure to ask questions about the actual job, but interviewing is a two way street, and jobs are transactional: make sure the deal is a good one for *you*, too. Smart employers get this.

      My current company has great benefits, because they want to attract (and keep, in a mentally well state) top talent. Heck, I’ll get dinged on performance reviews for *not* taking my holidays. And they are happy to tell you about these benefits during an interview! The interviewers have access to the same benefits, they enjoy having them, and it’s something that they’re proud of about where they work.

      Some places *will* judge you, and the question is: do you care about being judged by them? The only reason to judge you for wanting work life balance is that they think the concept is stupid and you must be lazy (ie: no, they do not have good balance). If you’re desperate and know you’ll have to take it either way, maybe don’t ask, but if you’re seriously looking for a good place to work, ask what you need to know. Asking will only make bad options filter themselves out.

      1. The Original K.*

        Yep – employers that treat people well don’t hide it. If an employer is cagey about compensation and/or culture, that’s an indicator that comp and/or culture are poor, in my experience.

    9. Totally Minnie*

      This advice is based on the premise that a job interview is for the employer to decide if they want to hire you. It doesn’t take into account that job interviews should be a two way street where the applicant is also getting the opportunity to decide if the job is right for them.

      When I changed jobs last year, a big reason I wanted to make a change was because I wanted to stop working evenings, weekends, and inconsistently schedules shifts, so I asked about it in every interview I had. If me not wanting to work Saturdays would be a deal breaker for the company, then that job would not be a match with what I was looking for and I wouldn’t have wanted it anyway.

      1. umami*

        Great point. I always have the evening/weekend talk with anyone seriously being considered for a position in my division because it is a reality of the type of work we do, and I want to be doubly sure that all candidates are aware. So anyone who doesn’t have that kind of flexibility can rule themselves out upfront; why go into a job knowing you are going to be needed for weekend duties if you don’t want to work on weekends ever?

    10. gmg22*

      If it’s a priority to you, then always ask. Worst-case scenario is they ding you for it — but why would that be an issue if you know you want work-life balance and any place that would ding you for asking surely won’t give that to you?

      I had an interview once for a job in the consulting space where I inadvertently talked my way into a misunderstanding about work hours, but ended up walking away with invaluable knowledge about how much of a bullet I was dodging. Asked the typical question of why I wanted to leave my current role and was interested in this one, I detailed how it matched my current skill set with a subject area I wanted to work in and had done my grad degree in — and then added the note that I also was ready for “a more normal work schedule,” because at the time I was working all evening shifts, 3-11 pm, including some Saturdays and/or Sundays.

      I meant “normal” as in “I’d like to have most of my evenings and weekends free like the majority of people do,” but I didn’t fully clarify that in the immediate moment and these people clearly heard “I only want to work 9-5 M-F, period.” Which wasn’t even strictly true for the right gig, but … at any rate it was like a needle scratching a record as the interview panel all glanced at each other, and then there was a discussion to the effect of um, ahem, lol, we’re all trying to be reformed workaholics but yeahhh you should know that we work 11-12 hours each weekday, most Saturdays and some half Sundays! I did not get offered the job, thank the Lord.

  13. A Penguin!*

    I’m not as put off by this as Alison. Some people would appreciate the opportunity to deal with the offer as soon as possible, even if they are normally a ‘no work on my free time’ type. The aside about the recruiter contacting at off hours is not a huge concern to me either (non-zero, but not major) – often recruiters seem to work on a different schedule than the rest of the company. They still shouldn’t be contacting you at crazy hours, but once you’re working there (if you accept) their impact on your day to day is vanishingly small.

    I think how the company reacted to not hearing back from you until Wednesday is the telling part. If they took it as no big deal, I think you’re ok pursuing the offer if otherwise agreeable. If they were noticeably upset by the delay then I think passing is wise.

    1. HonorBox*

      I think the fact that there was an expectation that an email would be read at midnight and that OP would pick up the phone and call… and a subsequent email on the holiday… is hugely problematic. As Alison said, if there was some sort of qualifier involved, I could give them the benefit of the doubt. But I find it really weird to expect that someone is sitting next to their computer or phone with their email open in the middle of the night. That’s setting up an expectation that “of course our employees are available all the time” more than not.

      1. ecnaseener*

        I didn’t read it as an expectation that they would pick up the phone and call, more just an invitation to call *if* they saw the email and wanted to call right away. I agree with A Penguin that their reaction should be telling there. (And assuming this is a personal email address and not a work address…it’s just not a red flag to me at all that they thought someone might see the email at midnight.)

        1. Random Dice*

          “Please call tonight or tomorrow” is very different from “Please feel free to call if you have any questions, I’m available tonight or tomorrow at your convenience.”

          1. HonorBox*

            100% this. It is telling the OP to do something (which shouldn’t be necessary with a written job offer) versus opening the door to an option if they want to ask questions.

      2. MsM*

        And it’s particularly problematic given how many times OP emphasized throughout the hiring process that work/life balance was important to them. I could maybe see the recruiter not being privy to that (although how would they then be able to answer questions about the offer that might require input from people OP will actually be working with?), but the supervisor follow-up? Not a great sign.

      3. goddessoftransitory*

        It’s hard for me to process the Memorial Day weekend thing as a red flag because I have never NOT worked a Memorial/Labor Day weekend in my entire life. It’s just so ingrained at this point that I keep having to remind myself that quite a few people have that marked off mentally as Time Off.

    2. Totally Minnie*

      I think the difference is that you’re looking at this as distinct separate instances, and LW is looking at it as a pattern taking place across the company. As a one-off, it may or may not be concerning. But I think LW is right to recognize this as a pattern and wonder if working this kind of hours would be expected of them as well.

    3. Moira Rose*

      Agreed. For all this place knows, LW is in talks for another job entirely, and this place has one shot to get in under the wire.

      1. goducks*

        Yes, once I make a decision on which candidate to hire, I want to move very quickly because I’m aware that I’m probably not their only option. I’m very aware that during the several weeks (or in some cases, months!) that the interview process takes, the candidate is looking elsewhere too. Once I am finally past all the internal hurdles and ready to make an offer, the very last thing I want to have happen is to lose the candidate because I’m a day late.

  14. It's me.*

    OP, I would definitely explicitly ask about it before accepting the offer. Alison’s language is great. I’d be worried, too, and would be reconsidering if I wanted this job. I also totally support you not saying a peep until Wednesday. They want you – they can sweat it out.

  15. HonorBox*

    Woof. Yeah, this is not a good situation. I try to look at things from the other side of the table, just to see if I’m missing something, but I’m struggling. In the only generous moment I could find, I thought perhaps the sender of the message had given OP a heads up to expect the offer. But otherwise, I can’t figure out why you’d send an email… at any time, let alone well into the evening… and expect that someone is going to read it. Email isn’t communication that works on the same timeline as phone calls or texts.

    And then to call on a FEDERAL HOLIDAY when the office is actually closed? C’mon. Unless there was specific communication in advance of the weekend that they wanted to have an answer by the time everyone showed up on Tuesday (maybe there was some internal deadline?), there’s no need to reach out on a holiday… and by email again.

    OP, I know you have some concerns about this being a problem for you going forward, but you have email receipts that show how misguided this firm is in how they recruited you. This isn’t a you problem if you turn them down. This is a them problem for not putting their best foot forward in the hiring process. They’ve told you all you need to know about how they’ll respect your personal boundaries.

  16. Good Luck*

    This is def worth discussing with the person who will be your manager. If the recruiter works for an outside firm, this behavior wouldn’t shock me. Recruiters (esp outside firms and heck sometimes even internally) can be a bit eager. They are sales people and their paycheck and livelihood depend on candidates excepting jobs. I am not saying I agree with this at all, its alarming and odd. I have had nothing but bad experiences with outside recruiters.

    1. Good Luck*

      I am also thinking this person had some sort of quota to fill. Its the end of the month, and they probably had to get a certain of number candidates placed before the end of the May.

  17. Hall or Billingham*

    A huge part of why this is a red flag to me is that the urgency is sudden. They gave OP a verbal offer that they couldn’t get into writing faster than two weeks, and then it’s suddenly late-night-on-a-holiday-weekend urgent? OP’s intuition is right that this company is not only not interested in prioritizing OP’s work-life balance, they aren’t even interested in respecting OP’s stated boundaries. I suspect that this place will always expect their priorities to become your own.

    1. umami*

      I agree but just wanted to add that as a hiring manager, the length of time compensation takes is completely out of my control. Sometimes they are waiting on official transcripts, which can take some time. And if a background check is required, also out of my control. So it’s not unusual for a week or two to lapse between verbal offer and formal offer letter. If hiring manager was really excited to bring OP on board, the after-hours request to discuss next steps doesn’t read as much as a red flag to me.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        Right, the offer letter takes as long as it takes, but then you don’t demand that the candidate call you immediately late at night on a holiday weekend. The length of time for the offer letter seems standard, but the hiring manager isn’t taking into account what the wait feels like from the candidate’s side and is pushing for an immediate response, that’s what’s off putting about this.

        1. umami*

          I didn’t see the ‘please call me’ as any sort of demand, but it’s possible to read it that way. That was Friday, though, and they didn’t reach out again until Monday via email (also not expecting that the OP would see the message until Wednesday due to their OOO, but still providing an opportunity just in case). I think what is still bothering me is that OP put an OOO that they know the manager saw, but they also keep checking their email and then feeling bothered just because a follow-up email was sent. Maybe … just don’t check the emails until you’re back at work? I’m just not seeing where they have messaged anything about needing an immediate response, it seems pretty innocuous to me.

          1. HonorBox*

            I agree that email doesn’t need to be checked. But I’ll disagree that there was nothing about needing an immediate response. They said “please call me” not “I’m here if you want to discuss…”

            Maybe it was crappy wording. But maybe, too, if one is looking at the sum of the parts, this is a red flag when a company is trying to do urgent business in the middle of the night and over a holiday.

          2. Bang Pow*

            “I think what is still bothering me is that OP put an OOO that they know the manager saw, but they also keep checking their email”

            It sounds like the offer came from the recruiter. So the recruiter saw the OOO message, not the manager.

            We don’t know that OP checked their email over the weekend. They could have checked it Wednesday and noticed that the email was dated Monday.

            1. umami*

              Yes, in re-reading, I’m also thinking the recruiter sent over the offer letter with the request to call, then left OP alone after seeing the OOO. Monday the supervisor reached out, and you are right that they could have just seen the message today. Two separate messages from two different people wanting to discuss an offer that was 2 weeks in the making doesn’t feel excessive to me, just … bad timing that it was during what was an extra-long weekend for OP. I personally would want to discuss the offer before Wednesday in case I want to give notice when going back to the place I already want to leave.

          3. Myrin*

            I actually think the (implicit) bigger problem with the Monday email is that it means the hiring manager was working on a holiday. Granted, I’m not in the US, but that would be considered a highly expressive red flag here because of what that signals for you should you start working there.

  18. Pam Beasley*

    Aaaaaaaand then there’s me, with questionable boundaries, who agreed to do “one last” zoom interview for a job while I was in another country visiting my in laws, because the hiring manager said she was having a hard time deciding between two of us… (if you’re wondering, no, I did not get the job! lol)

    Stick to your boundaries, LW.

  19. Phony Genius*

    Our phones are all scheduled to self-destruct on Wednesday.

    Definitely going to use this one. (Checks calendar. Sees today is Wednesday.) Next week.

    2. Office Gumby*

      Interestingly enough, our phones are all scheduled to self-destruct for us on the weekend. Coincidentally, it’s a long weekend for us as well (not in the US).

      (Okay, we’re hoping that our major upgrade will go smoothly and no phones will self-destruct.)

  20. Bang Pow*

    It’s only two emails, and some people would be eager to talk about the offer right away. The prospective manager didn’t even ask LW to call them back, just said they were available. I would not be freaking out just yet. It’s worth calling back and discussing the timing on both, but it’s too early to draw a bunch of conclusions about work/life balance.

    1. umami*

      That’s my thought, too, because presumably they already accepted the verbal offer, so now it’s just finishing the onboarding. I wouldn’t see that as strange at all that they wanted to discuss the details of the offer before it’s signed.

    2. Happy meal with extra happy*

      Except it’s explicitly not just the two emails.

      “Side note: These incidents are not isolated. The recruiter has contacted me at absurd times 6-7 other times throughout the process.”

      1. Moira Rose*

        Sure, but if that’s an external recruiter, it tells you nothing about the company.

        1. MsM*

          Unless they literally just hired this firm, I don’t think it’s a great reflection on them if they’re either not aware of the impression their external vendors are making on potential employees or don’t care.

      2. umami*

        I doubt the hiring manager knows anything about what’s been going on with the recruiter. I wouldn’t judge the company based on the recruiter’s actions, but I can see why it would seem off-putting.

      3. Bang Pow*

        You’re right. I still don’t see it as a red flag, though. LW won’t be reporting to the recruiter. If they work wacky hours, it doesn’t impact LW at all. If they receive and accept an offer, LW probably won’t even talk to the recruiter again after their first couple days.

      4. Caramel & Cheddar*

        They’ve had five interviews, though, so getting contacted by a recruiter 6 or 7 times doesn’t seem that weird.

    3. HonorBox*

      The first person emailing DID tell OP to call back. And they sent an email in the middle of the night.

      The prospective manager said that they were available yes. But on a holiday when the business was closed. If there’s been multiple times that work/life balance has been discussed, this is problematic. That isn’t even your boss yet and they’re reaching out on a holiday.

      1. Bang Pow*

        The first person was the recruiter, not the prospective manager. There’s a lot of weight being put on a person who LW won’t be accountable to or even work with. Who cares how that person works?

        Being available just means the manager was available. It doesn’t mean they *wanted* LW to call them on Monday. Just, they are available. Some people want to talk about a job offer right away. It’s not unreasonable. And for all we know, the prospective boss maybe didn’t want to be available on Monday but felt obligated just in case LW was a person who wanted to talk about a job offer right away.

        1. MsM*

          If they’re the supervisor, they’ve been there for at least one interview in which OP made it clear that they do not want to talk work on nights and weekends, for any reason. I really don’t understand the mental gymnastics people are putting into disregarding that piece of data in favor of, “well, but they probably didn’t mean it in this case, even though they’ve presumably got more reason than usual to not want to be bothered on a holiday weekend.”

          1. umami*

            A job offer when job hunting isn’t something I would classify as *work*. I get not wanting to work nights and weekends, but this is just talking through a job offer, which I would venture to say most people don’t want to do while they are sitting at their desk at their current job. Asking someone if they want to discuss a job offer is realms away from asking someone to do work.

            1. MsM*

              Well, obviously it’s a problem for OP, or they wouldn’t be writing in. And frankly, I have a much easier time understanding where they’re coming from than I do the attempts to persuade them this is no big deal. Even assuming whoever you’re trying to contact on a holiday weekend has access to a reliable phone/internet connection – and personally, I think making that assumption says something about how much respect you have for the concept that when someone goes on vacation, they’re going to be on vacation – either there’s nothing to discuss that can’t be discussed when anyone to whom you might need to pose any follow-up questions the conversation raises is back from their travels, or holiday weekends are in fact just business as usual and that’s not going to work for the candidate who asked multiple times during the interview process whether that was going to be the case. And if you’re still somehow convinced that person wants nothing more than to talk to you ASAP, you can at least explicitly acknowledge you’re offering that as a courtesy rather than “call me to discuss.”

              1. umami*

                I didn’t see any indication from OP that they were on vacation, just that they had their OOO set for the holiday weekend because they weren’t going to be back at work until Wednesday. I get that OP sees it as a red flag, and the question was, should they? There is an argument against assuming it is, because plenty of people would view learning of a job offer, even during a long weekend or during a vacation, as a positive rather than a negative. But obviously, YMMV.

                1. MsM*

                  Learning of a job offer is one thing. So is “happy to discuss this even over the holiday weekend if you’d like, but no pressure.” Two separate “please call” messages over a period when no U.S.-based company should be expecting OP to be glued to their email or available for a phone call are concerning, especially when OP has repeatedly brought up work-life balance as a priority. I’m getting tired of being a broken record over that, and I will probably stop after this, but I feel like your clear “well, it’s not a problem for me” stance is blinding you to why OP is so worried about why all of this couldn’t just wait until Tuesday.

          2. Bang Pow*

            Wow. No mental gymnastics going on. Just don’t see a person offering to be available as an indication that this place has no boundaries and will call LW into work on evenings and weekends. Presumably LW liked the responses they got during all 5 of those interviews. Do none of those conversations matter anymore?

            1. MsM*

              I don’t see the “offer” in “give me a call to talk about this during what is almost certainly your leisure time, which you have repeatedly mentioned you value quite highly,” even if you tack on a “please.” That’s a request with a pretty concrete-sounding expectation of immediate follow-up. And no, OP clearly didn’t like everything that came up during those interviews – most notably the part about “throughout this process they have made me feel that if I choose to work there, I will never have free time again outside of work,” which this just affirms.

              1. Bang Pow*

                letting me know they were available that day to talk about the job offer.

                “That’s a request with a pretty concrete-sounding expectation of immediate follow-up.”

                I can see that you feel strongly about this. I continue to … not feel strongly about it.

  21. learnedthehardway*

    I wouldn’t jump to conclusions until you know WHY they want you to call back so urgently.

    It’s possible that they’re telling you something like their company has gone into a hiring freeze, or that the company just announced a merger, and they don’t want you to resign from your current job until that is sorted out. Neither of those situations would be pre-announced to the hiring manager. They may be trying to help you.

    Or, perhaps they haven’t been able to get ahold of your references or maybe there’s an issue with your background check – those things happen too. And if so, it’s good of them to try to get it sorted asap.

    I would call them when you can manage to do so. Make your decision from there. Reiterate that you are looking for work/life balance, if you feel you need to, and ask if this sort of last minute over-the-long-weekend thing is a feature or a bug.

    1. MsM*

      But then why can’t they say “there’s a couple of things we’d like to go over”? Or at least acknowledge “we know it’s a holiday weekend, and normally we wouldn’t do this, but…”?

  22. Firm Believer*

    I am a person who works long hours, and frequently on weekends and holidays because I like the time to focus.

    Even I am terribly concerned about this behavior and think you should run far away.

    1. Cat's Paw for Cats*

      Me too. I would never have expected my staff to be available when off duty unless it was an emergency, and they knew in advance that they might be called in urgent cases.

  23. AnonNow*

    I don’t think this is a red flag per se. There are lots of good reasons why they might want to progress the job offer situation as quickly as possible.
    You need some honest evaluations from people in the company now as to WLB. What does Glassdoor say (not that it’s totally reliable)?

  24. JelloStapler*

    So many red flags you could have a color guard accompanying the band. They not only seem willfully ignorant of boundaries and balance but also very disorganized. That’s a pain anyway (do you want to have to deal with this whenever you need something from HR?) but also makes me wonder if they are under-staffed.

    1. JelloStapler*

      Reading some other takes and i guess I can see how to some it is not a red flag and see their points, however- you trust your own gut here.

      1. umami*

        Really, this lol. OP’s question was, should I be worried? Some people vehemently say yes, this is highly inappropriate, others are meh, sounds pretty standard when getting a job offer. OP was the one there and knows how important not being contacted (even with a job offer) is to them, so if they feel uncomfortable about it, I guess YMMV. If I were the supervisor, I would be surprised at someone feeling a job offer was an intrusion on their personal time, it would never cross my mind someone would feel that way before reading the letter and many of the comments. Job offers mean your job search is over, who doesn’t think that is great news!

    2. hypoglycemic rage (hopeful ex librarian)*

      “So many red flags you could have a color guard accompanying the band.”

      i love this expression.

  25. AnonInCanada*

    I think this potential employer values work-life balance the same way as your predecessors. Run. Run like the wind. Assuming you value not being a cog in the machine running 24/7, of course. What’s the point in working to the bone for a bigger paycheque if your life gets cut short by working to the bone?

  26. RawHide*

    Tbh, I think OP needs to reframe this situation. I’ve had emails go out late because they were sitting in my outbox and due to some internet glitch they didn’t actually send when I pressed send, they just say there and would send later. As for the supervisor, I would guess they may have though they were being courteous by offering to be available on a holiday. The recruiter being pushy is one thing but I don’t think it’s indicative of the entire company. Call the supervisor back and just ask, “How common is it to get emails on holidays/weekends and am I expected to respond.” That’s your answer

  27. I'm Just Here For The Cats!*

    If I were the OP I would flat out ask “why did you email me at 9pm your time, midnight my time, when it was the weekend before a holiday? Is it normal to work late and work holidays.

    1. umami*

      OP doesn’t even say that the two emails came from the same person. I feel like the offer came from the recruiter (whom we already know has a practice of sending things at odd times). The second message on Monday came from the would-be supervisor letting them know they are available to discuss, and it’s likely all they heard from the recruiter was that the offer letter was sent out on Friday. I just don’t see the supervisor as being pushy or problematic here at all to offer an opportunity to speak before the week begins.

  28. Milfred*

    They have a plan-B candidate who has given them a deadline.

    They are concerned they will lose you and the plan-B candidate.

      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Or LW’s prospective new boss is a very excitable labrador puppy.

  29. umami*

    I’m a little confused, did OP use their current work email for communications with the new company? I would have assumed the candidate used their private email, which ostensibly they would be accessing outside of office hours. Having said that, it does seem odd to be asked to respond so quickly on a Friday night or Saturday, so that is concerning. But if I were in a job search and had developed a positive rapport with the hiring manager, I think I would appreciate being notified as soon as the decision was made, even if I was not able to respond immediately.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      I have a completely separate personal email that I use only for job searching. That way emails that I need to see don’t get lost in a forum of spam. It could be a situation like that.

      1. umami*

        I was questioning why there was an out of office message, though, saying they were unavailable until after the holiday, which doesn’t sound like something you would put on your job-search email. Having a personal email strictly for job searching is a great idea!

        1. John McGuirk*

          It’s completely possible and reasonable to put a vacation auto-reply on your personal email.

            2. ecnaseener*

              I wouldn’t read anything into it. The name for the setting in Outlook is “Automatic Reply (Out of Office)”

            3. AlsoADHD*

              For a job hunting email, I would, but I use my job hunting email for freelance gigs constantly even while employed.

        2. Bang Pow*

          I think it makes sense. You want people to know that you won’t see their email for a couple days.

          1. umami*

            My question was more about the out of ‘office’, which leads me to believe they were using their office email. I get that they want to screen their emails, but I wouldn’t think a job offer email is one you want to screen out. I kinda wish OP had found out what they wanted to discuss – there could be a valid reason to want to talk before Wednesday about the offer that wasn’t a red flag simply because the offer happened at an inopportune time.

            1. Myrin*

              I’m not a native speaker and I thought that’s just what these kinds of messages are called in English, no deeper, literal meaning necessarily. Not saying OP isn’t a native speaker but just that I see the expression used so widely that it seems reasonable to me that someone would just call them that.

              1. umami*

                Thanks, I hadn’t thought of that! I don’t think (as in, I’m certain) I’ve never set automatic replies for my personal email, but I don’t really use email much outside of work.

              2. Daisy Daisy*

                That’s all I’ve called them too, but only because I’ve never heard of it thought I’d someone doing that for a personal email address.

                2. NeedRain*

                  I hadn’t either, but now I’m thinking that if you’re in the middle of an interview/offer process, it’s a pretty good idea.

            2. Missing Sock*

              “Automatic Replies (Our of Office)” is the name of the setting in Microsoft Outlook and, if I recall correctly, it was exclusively named “Out of Office” for quite a few years. “Out of Office” was and probably still is the name of the feature in several other software systems as well.

            3. Bang Pow*

              “I get that they want to screen their emails, but I wouldn’t think a job offer email is one you want to screen out.”

              Out-of-office/automatic replies don’t screen anything out. The email still appears in your inbox as soon as it is received. OP is choosing not to read their emails while on vacation, and they set up their email to inform senders so they are not wondering at the silence.

              If I were expecting a job offer, I would check my email regularly even on vacation. However, OP is not me. They do things their way.

        3. Someone Else's Boss*

          In some industries, it’s normal to use your professional email. I still wouldn’t want to do it, but I see it all the time (I work in exec search for higher ed).

      2. Cmdrshpard*

        But if that is the case I don’t think OP would have put an out of office for that, unless they were in an area that did not have internet/email capability. If you are job hunting are trying to be responsive. I agree the late night/weekend request was/is an issue, but not responding on Tuesday when most are back to normal hours seems weird.

        Maybe OP can be very picky, but I have taken interviews during planed vacation/PTO from my job that were built into the vacation.

        1. umami*

          That was my thought, in addressing whether it’s a red flag or just an inconvenient time. It’s hard to tell with the information given! I would go with giving them the benefit of the doubt until having a chance to talk to them about the urgency. But yeah, I did a phone interview once in my car while traveling in a snowstorm that delayed my travel, so I pulled into a Starbucks parking lot to do it. And not only did I get invited for two more rounds, I got the job!

        2. Bang Pow*

          I scheduled an interview for a federal holiday bc I was jobless and needed a job, but it raised a mental alert for me. I didn’t ask about it during the interview, and I didn’t get the next step, so I never had a chance.

          I refused to schedule an internal interview during a planned vacation bc I had a job and didn’t need a job. I believe they were trying to move quickly, but again, I didn’t ask and didn’t make it to the next step.

          The vacation/need a job interview scheduling trade-off is different for different people and different circumstances.

        3. kiki*

          I think a lot of folks try to fully disconnect during vacation, even if they’re job hunting. It also sounds like this vacation was just a long holiday weekend plus one day– that’s not an unreasonable amount of time to ask a business to wait to hear back from a candidate. Especially since it sounds like it took the business two weeks to get their offer letter together.

          I don’t think it’s a good sign that the business took their time and then seemed to expect an immediate response from LW over a holiday weekend.

    2. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I paused, thought about consultants,c contractors,
      freelancers, and independent practices and moved on.

  30. LaBellaLavanderina*

    In fairness, I do think OP might be projecting from past burnout, and maybe Allison, too, in her advice? As someone above stated, I am not as put off. Is the timing on Memorial Day from the hiring manager in poor taste? Sure. But I don’t think this one example defines the course of one’s career.

    I currently work at a place whose onboarding process was horrendous, and I didn’t think my hiring manager cared about what they put me through, but on my first day, she welcomed me warmly and apologized for HR’s incompetencies. One thought: perhaps they were trying to overcompensate on their end for whatever caused the two-week lag, and panicked that OP had lost interest despite verbally accepting?

    OP, if not too late, could you grab some “future” colleagues on LinkedIn and ask candidly about work-life balance?

    I mean… I just think the advice to “run” is a bit extreme just yet.

    1. umami*

      One of the things that annoyed me after I accepted my first position where I am currently employed was that they had my email set up early in the onboarding process. So I started getting email invites to all sorts of meetings before I even started working there! WTH! Turns out, this was just indicative of how efficient and organized my staff were in setting up all the introductory meetings I was going to need my first couple of weeks on the job. They honestly were amazing!

  31. McS*

    Best case scenario is that working weekends and holidays is business as usual for them and they don’t have the professionalism to have expected you to be concerned with this behavior. If you are a high value candidate, a professional hiring team would be working extra hard not to put out red flags like this. In that scenario, it’s likely that if you are really good about constantly re-establishing boundaries, you can be successful and happy in the role. Worst case scenario, the hiring manager (the person who would be your boss?) was behind on their deadline to send you the offer and trying to cover by rushing your tasks. That sounds like a very unhappy work environment.

  32. Capt. Liam Shaw*

    LW: Would you be okay had the company not reached out, just read your out of the office note, and gone with another candidate? I too like some on here just not seeing something that bad.

    1. Zzzzzz*

      This is an absurd reading of the situation. You’re bending your answer into a pretzel to be a contrarian and gotta admit–doing some gaslighting here.

      LW said there were red flags about boundaries in all 5 interviews and then boom! Boundaries busted on the offer.

      Regardless of how long it took for the offer letter to come in, when you reach out to someone at 6 PM YOUR TIME ON A FRIDAY, HOLIDAY WEEKEND, then if you are a reasonable person, you acknowledge that fact, say “I am available if you want to chat over the weekend, but am otherwise free on x, y, z. Let me know what works for you.” THEN, once you get the auto reply back, you also contact relevant hiring staff to let them know of the situation.

      All to also say: RUN, LW, RUN! See what they have to say if it will help any lingering what is it that they wanted to know so badly from me questions…. but then you can graciously turn it down without burning a bridge. “After careful consideration, I have decided this isn’t the right opportunity for me at this time.” Done. No more explanations needed. You don’t owe them anything else. It happens. Life happens.

      1. umami*

        OP didn’t say there were red flags in all 5 interviews, she said she brought up work/life balance up in all 5 interviews, and that she likes and knows these people. She accepted the verbal offer, so I can only assume she was satisfied with how they answered her questions. Outside of the recruiter, who I am admittedly guessing is the one who sent the late Friday offer letter, it seemed everyone else behaved well and didn’t push any boundaries.

      2. Grith*

        Yeah, that’s a massive misread of the feeling after interviews. Bringing up and asking about boundaries was the LW intending to show it’s important to them, not in any way suggesting they were getting concerning answers.

    2. MsM*

      Honestly, if they liked me enough to make the offer but not enough to give me an actual standard workday to consider, I’d consider that a bullet dodged.

  33. anonymous person*

    Is it possible that they were not aware that the OP was in a different time zone? I guess I assumed the OP maybe traveled to the east coast and that was why they wouldn’t be back until Wednesday. They may not have known that the OP was out of town, so if they thought they were still in the PST it would be 6:00 for them too. Not so far outside normal working hours. This obviously doesn’t excuse the Monday contact, but could at least explain the midnight issue.

    1. Greg*

      Me too. I would appreciate it if Alison could post one later tonight or first thing tomorrow morning :-)

  35. Hiring Mgr*

    Maybe I’m just color blind but I honestly don’t see red flags here. The “call tonight or tomorrow morning” could easily have been boilerplate.

    If you’re that adamant about not being reached off hours, this may not be the job for you, but lots of people would not mind a quick call, even on a weekend, to discuss a job offer!

    1. September*

      That’s where I am – the email sounds like it was intended to go out earlier. I really don’t think it meant call after 9 (or midnight eastern). And job candidate calls seem different to me than work calls. Even people who don’t like working on weekends might have appreciated the chance to talk about the offer without having to juggle the schedule of their current job.

  36. Jellyfish Catcher*

    Trust your gut.
    I’ll bet everyone on this blog, including me, has heard that little voice, felt that tiny gut message, but ignored it and regretted it.
    Trust yourself.

  37. Mmm.*

    I was a teacher, and you could tell how toxic a new principal would be by how many emails they sent over summer “break.” A few are necessary (introducing themselves, letting us know about upcoming meeting schedules ONCE, etc.). But, expecting us to respond–when we were technically not even supposed to be working–was a HUGE red flag.

    I would pass on this job and, if safe to do so, tell them why.

  38. Tea For Me*

    Granted, I haven’t been in job search mode in quite awhile, but I would think that a large number of job seekers would appreciate the hiring company being available during non-work hours to discuss things. I wouldn’t want to use a significant amount of time during business hours for job search activities if there’s an option to not do that.

    I also wouldn’t use the behavior of one recruiter to be indicative of the whole company without further evidence (assuming this is an internal recruiter and not an external one…if it’s external, I would absolutely expect for my phone / email to get blown up once there’s an actual offer in hand).

    1. Daisy-dog*

      Agreed, the recruiter piece is not really indicative of the culture – even if it is an internal recruiter. It’s hard to get good candidates and sometimes the key is try calling outside of normal hours. My brief time in recruiting did mean getting call-backs as late as 8 pm and those were for hard-to-fill roles.

    2. kiki*

      I think what’s tricky here is that it’s not clear from the messages whether the hiring manager expected to hear from the LW over Memorial Day weekend or if they were trying to convey that they’re available to talk if it’s convenient for the LW.

      The first message from the recruiter definitely gave, “We expect a call ASAP, who cares about timing or the long weekend.” Which isn’t great, but I will also say that recruiters are often not an indication of business expectations. Like, recruiters are often in their own world compared to the rest of the company.

      The message from the manager on Memorial Day was less clear. They may have just wanted to make sure LW felt like they could reach out, but they may have also sent the message hoping to press LW to reach out sooner than their OOO indicated.

  39. Daisy-dog*

    I once got an email on Saturday of Labor Day Weekend that said: “Please call me to discuss this role. The phone number of your resume is invalid.” I was traveling to the middle-of-nowhere to visit family for the holiday weekend, so I didn’t have cell service. It was such a bizarre assumption. But this was an external recruiter and didn’t actually represent the company’s culture.

  40. WoodswomanWrites*

    I once received an invitation the day before Thanksgiving to interview the following Monday. I However, the recruiter overtly said they recognized it was a holiday weekend and I might not see their message until the following week and they could reschedule if needed. I was traveling and in fact didn’t see it, and the recruiter understood when I contacted them the following Monday. I ended up taking that job, but their invitation was a far cry from the unreasonable demanding you’re hearing from this employer. Trust your instincts on this one.

    1. Hiring Mgr*

      Which instincts though? LW also says she knows and likes these people, so it’s not that black and white

  41. Jill Swinburne*

    “When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.” (Maya Angelou, I think.)

    1. Bang Pow*

      Wow. LW knows and likes these people, and doesn’t mention any concerning answers to their work/life balance questions during the interviews. They are supposed to ignore all of those interactions?

    3. Grith*

      Are we referring to the interview process where OP liked this company and was interested?

  42. Jade*

    If it were me I’d reply with “this email reached me on Friday at midnight. I will be happy to discuss the offer on Tuesday. Have a nice weekend”. Don’t blow it up until you hear it.

  43. Gary Patterson’s Cat*

    Oof! From a recruiter I might expect this because they get paid if you seal the deal and they tend to be pushy as a result. I would be concerned as this was the hiring manager you’d likely be working for. Will they always be like that? Still, I think this is now worth asking WHY before you accept anything. Perhaps there was a good reason, but beware. Definitely a yellow flag.

  45. Quill*

    100% if you take this job, you will still be at work on a holiday weekend at 9 pm PST next year.

  46. Bookworm*

    I’d run. I was in a somewhat similar position where it was also a holiday weekend (forgot which one as it was years ago, but it might have also been Memorial Day). They adored me, I had a recommendation/connection. I asked for the Tuesday after the holiday but they pushed for me for the Friday.

    I won’t get into the details, but I had a red flag when I found out at the interview they had filled the position I had applied for and were having me interview for another one because they chose an internal candidate for the one I applied for. They said it was similar, (and from the interview it does sound like it was) but I was not given a choice. The interview itself was fine, if a bit too chatty for me but this switch and bait was too weird of me.

    These people seem too pushy. If it makes you uneasy then I agree with others: go with your instincts.

    1. Optimus Prime*

      “they had filled the position I had applied for and were having me interview for another one because they chose an internal candidate for the one I applied for.”

      That’s disappointing, but it’s not a red flag. Sometimes positions get filled, but you have a 2nd choice candidate you really like so you try to hire them into something else. It’s a little dramatic to label that as bait-and-switch. If you don’t want the other position, you don’t have to take it. Interviews are a two-way street, you know.

  47. Erin*

    I believe I work for this company (the 5 hour interview & recruiter/manager in PST were the tells).

    From what I can tell you, the recruiter & manager weren’t trying to be pushy or interrupt your weekend. They were expressing their availability, and with the long weekend, they wanted to let you know that they were avail if (and only if!) you wanted to chat. But there was no obligation on your part to do so. No need to read more into it than that.

    If I am correct about which company you interviewed with, it is not unheard of to be available after hours for brief slack responses, especially across time zones. However, most employees also like a good work/life balance, and the general vibe is that if you are OOTO/weekend, you will respond when you get back. Of course, there are workaholics here, but they are at every company.

  48. Nancy*

    The email sounds like a standard email that wasn’t changed to reflect the time it went out. And a manager offering to talk on a holiday isn’t a red flag to me at all. It give the candidate the chance to talk when they are free instead of trying to find time during their current work hours. Manager could have easily been home doing nothing and figured they’d check in. They aren’t asking you to work, they are contacting you with good news!

  49. Master Procrastinator*

    I don’t want to derail from the original point but is this process of having several interviews a cultural thing? Or a sector specific one? There have only been 3 or 4 times in my career (both as a candidate and a manager hiring staff) where a second interview has been necessary, and it’s usually because there’s a tie between candidates. That said, in the last few years, I’ve encountered a couple of screening rounds via pre-recorded video “interviews” (hate these!) So maybe things are changing here. But a single 45 minute interview sounds normal to me (UK), and 5 interviews seems like an unreasonable amount of time and effort to ask candidates (and a hiring team) to put into the recruitment process. For clarity, I would expect a bit of negotiation and discussing the terms of the offer post-interview for the successful candidate. But I can’t imagine why it would take so much time and so many conversations to make a decision. Is each one with a different person? Couldn’t they all just be on a panel?

    And re: the company OP applied to and its boundaries, this looks like a major red flag! I guess there’s a slim chance that the hiring manager is an outlier in taking this approach (and also is someone OP won’t have to work directly with), but the context of having raised the issue of boundaries on multiple occasions and still being met with this suggests that there’s an issue with organisational culture.

    1. This Old House*

      I’ve always felt like multiple interviews were more common in AAM than in real life. I’ve had 1-2 interviews for all the jobs I’ve ever had, and 2 was only in higher ed.

      1. Unionista*

        spouse had seven interviews for a job that they was already the vendor for and was being converted to a full time employee with no other candidates being considered nearly twenty years ago. since then all interview processes in their field make that one seem easy.

    2. InterviewsPlural*

      I’ve worked mostly technical jobs (both full time and contract) in a ton of different industries and I’m always shocked on those rare occasions when there’s only one interview. Even for short contracts there’s often two – one with the hiring manager and one with a couple of potential coworkers. I’d say for full time positions three is the norm, but I’ve had as many as six (and most have at least one if not two multi-stage interviews with 2-4 different sessions in a row). One thing that comes up at some smaller or midsized companies is the CEO insisting on interviewing every potential employee before they’re hired, adding a final extra interview to the mix.

    3. Adam*

      It’s very industry specific. In software, lots of companies do a phone interview and then four in-person interviews. They’ll typically be something like two interviews where you demonstrate your coding ability, one where you talk about system design, and then one traditional one where you talk with the manager about past roles and experience.

      1. talos*

        Yes, I was going to say that 5 interviews is kind of minimum for tech, and you might have more if it’s a big company and you’re being looked at for several teams to see where you would fit best.

    4. MsSolo (UK)*

      I think we do have less interviews over here generally. It’s more common to share info about salary and benefits in the job ad (and less common to negotiate benefits), interviews are almost always panels, and I think tests are more common in technical roles either pre-interview or part of the interview. It’s pretty rare to interview with peers to the role, too; I’ve mostly worked public sector, where it’s a specific rule that you have to be at least one grade above the role to be involved in the application and interview process (though I don’t really know why).

      1. londonedit*

        I’m in publishing (UK) and two interviews is the norm, maybe three for a more senior position. No phone screens unless the job advert is being handled by an external recruitment agency, in which case they’ll want to speak to you before they submit your CV and cover letter. First interview is usually with the person who will be your line manager and probably with another member of the team – depending on the level you’re interviewing at, that could be a peer or someone the next level above. Then second interview is with the line manager and whoever is a level senior to them, so could be the head of department or could be the CEO/owner if it’s a small company. I’ve had one job where I was offered the job after just one interview – but that was a very small company and the interview was more of a chat with the Editorial Director and the owner, and the owner had the ultimate say over who to hire, so I went to the interview in the morning and had a call offering me the job in the afternoon. It’s definitely less common to negotiate salary in publishing, because salaries are broadly the same for similar roles across the industry, and holiday allowance is pretty standard in most jobs in the UK and there’s no discussion of insurance etc (unless the company offers private healthcare as a perk, which doesn’t really happen in publishing because there isn’t a lot of money around!)

    5. Yry*

      I have a friend working in tech in a management position, after 21 (twenty one!) interviews over the course of 6 months, including several test-projects that took up to a week to complete, they simply told him he was overqualified for the position. It blew my poor little mind (no it wasn’t for NASA, I asked lol)

    6. Caroline*

      I’m UK based and I’d say 2 interviews is about standard, MAYBE an additional pre-screen call or something with a recruiter in addition, but it’s pretty normal.

    7. Selina Luna*

      In education, I have had multiple interviews several times, usually in bigger school districts. It’s one interview at the district level to get added to the general pool of applicants, one interview with the school principal and others, and once, an interview with other members of the English department team. All of these were “panel” interviews, and if all of these people had been on a panel together, the panel would have been massive.

  50. Extra anony*

    I don’t see any red flags. I don’t think receiving a job offer is equivalent to working; personally, I would be happy to get good news from an employer on a holiday weekend. Some HR people specifically give the option to talk not during regular business hours so that you aren’t negotiating a new job while you’re at work. I see nothing to indicate that OP’s manager would force them to work over holiday weekends and think that’s jumping to conclusions.

    1. Jade*

      Agree with this. Not answering until five days later will be extremely off-putting imo.

    2. Victoria Everglot*

      There is some Olympic level wild jumping to conclusions in this comment section today. There was one email they may have accidentally sent at a different time than intended and one message sent during a time they knew LW wouldn’t be at work and might therefore be more available. They didn’t say “you must contact us on a Saturday” or “we want you to get started right away so hurry up and answer us”. I’m not seeing the red flags or any reason to run screaming.

  51. Michelle Smith*

    I’d definitely reach out to a recent former employee or two on LinkedIn and see if they are available to speak to you. That saved me from walking into a micromanager situation once.

  52. Grith*

    OP is primed to see red flags a-waving on the subject of work/life balance due to the pushy recruiter. But assuming it’s an external recruitment company, I don’t think that’s fair.

    This is a single isolated concern, and the fact the response suggests asking the same question but with slightly different phrasing would have mitigated it, I don’t really see it as a massive concern. Do your usual diligence (glassdoor etc) and see where that leaves you but don’t just write an entire job you were excited about off because one manager offered to be available out of hours.

  53. L*

    One possibility is they might think YOU want to talk ASAP. Job searching can be nerve-wracking and many people just want to wrap it up and know they’ve got the job and terms are set in stone as soon as possible. Not saying that’s definitely what’s happening here, but it could be. I got my last job offer on a Friday night and I was really grateful that HR made themselves available to discuss it late that evening. I had a competing offer with a deadline, putting me in a time crunch, and overall the job search was just really stressful and I wanted to be done with it!

Comments are closed.