I took a job with less responsibility — and my coworkers treat me like I have no experience

by Alison Green on July 16, 2024

A reader writes:

I was a stay-at-home-mom for a good 10 years, and have recently started working for other people again. I have been taking entry-level positions, because I’ve been out of the workforce for a decade and also because my kids are still kind of young and I can’t handle the additional responsibility.

I’m currently on my second part-time job since coming back, and I keep running into issues with my coworkers assuming that I have entry-level experience.

At my first job, I had issues when someone changed a much-used database field to be unsearchable. When I tried to explain why I needed to be able to search that, I couldn’t get through to my coworker who kept blowing me off, saying “computer stuff is hard, but you’ll get the hang of it.” I have built three large corporate databases from scratch. I eventually had to escalate the issue to my great-grandboss, who had hired me and knew what was on my resume.

At my current administrative job, which I love, I have been noticing that no one outside my direct boss really values my input. I was hired because I have the experience to understand and cover for the higher-level responsibilities in my department, but again, no one has seen my resume. Today my coworker and I were discussing a marketing issue, and she said to me, “I actually have a Master’s in Marketing, so I know about this stuff.” My MBA concentration was in Marketing, and I’ve been a marketing manager and a publicist. I know a thing or two. I just currently want a job I can leave at the office at the end of the day.

How do I let my coworkers know, without sounding like a jerk, that even though I have (and want) an entry-level job, I do have higher-level experience and knowledge? Or should I just continue to keep my mouth shut and enjoy not being asked to take on the newsletter (I was sweating that one), and other jobs? Could that hurt me in a few years when I’m ready for more responsibility?

I think you need to figure out exactly what’s bothering you about this.

Is it just that you want your coworkers to talk to you in a way that acknowledges you’re not a total beginner? (Certainly the computer guy was over the line regardless.) Or is it more about respect and having your input taken seriously? Obviously we should treat all our coworkers respectfully, but at the same time, if you were hired to do X and Y, the colleague managing Z might not be looking for input on Z, even if you have a background in it, and that might be their call to make.

If you’re reading that and thinking, “Yeah, I’m not trying to take over their jobs; I just want them to know I have experience, even though I’m not proposing using that experience for anything specific” … can you dig more into why? If you can’t quite explain it, then any chance it’s, well, ego? On some level, we often want people to know our value in any given context, even if there’s no practical reason they need to, and it can wound our egos when we feel like they don’t know and aren’t accounting for that.

If it is ego, that’s okay. We all have egos, and that’s no indictment of you. But if that’s what’s at the root of this, it might bother you less once you realize that.

On the other hand, if there are practical work reasons people need to know, that’s different — and you’d address that like any other work detail someone needed to know. For example, the computer guy was definitely a work problem that you needed to address, because he was obstructing your ability to do your job. Also, you mentioned that you were hired in part because you can cover for the higher-level responsibilities in your department; if that’s the case, people need to know about the aspects of that will affect them (and your boss should be taking the lead on making sure they know).

Beyond that, though, why not just mention your expertise when it’s relevant? For example, when your coworker told you she “knows about this stuff” because of her marketing degree, it would have been fine to say, “Oh, cool. I used to work as a marketing manager and my MBA focused on it.” And when your coworker was patronizing you about computers being “hard,” it would have been fine to say, “I’ve been using computers for years. I’ve built three large corporate databases from scratch.” Or even, “Have I inadvertently given you the impression I don’t know computers? I’ve built databases and done XYZ. The issue here is…”

You definitely shouldn’t go around inserting your credentials where they wouldn’t come up organically, but when it’s relevant to the conversation, it’s fine to mention! A good litmus test: might the person you’re talking to feel embarrassed if they continue down this conversational road and then find out about your background later? If so, it’s a kindness to everyone to be matter-of-fact about it.

All that said … depending on how this organization works, there’s a risk that by publicizing your credentials, you risk being drafted into more responsibility than you want. You might be able to solve that by just being really firm about role creep, hours, and what you are and aren’t prepared to do (not only because you don’t want more responsibility right now, but also because you’re not being paid for it) — but factor your willingness to do the work of maintaining those boundaries into how much you share about your experience.

Last, you raised the question of whether avoiding those extras now could hurt you in a few years when you want more responsibility. There is an opportunity cost — having fresh higher-level experience on your resume does help — but it sounds like you were already planning on that opportunity cost when you decided to return to entry-level work (for perfectly good reasons).

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  1. ZSD*

    I could imagine the person with the master’s in marketing writing in and saying, “My part-time colleague who was hired to do X and Y has been trying to tell me how to do my job in Z. How do I get her to stop treating me like I know nothing?” The response might be to make sure the busy-body knows she has a master’s in marketing.
    Now, OP, working with marketing stuff might be part of your job! But if it’s not explicitly a part of it, then your co-worker might have been irked that you were trying to teach her how to do her own job. I obviously don’t know the full context, but this is a possibility.

    1. Former password resetter*

      That would be a weirdly combatative take, since it sounds like they were just discussing something happening in the office that they happened to be qualified for. Not that the OP was giving a marketer unwanted advice.

      1. blood orange*

        It actually sounds like OP might have been (giving unwanted advice). Maybe that was too strong a reaction from OP’s coworker, but it’s pretty odd to just cite one’s degree for no reason. I imagined the conversation looking the way ZSD suggests.

        For instance, I’m currently in HR, but I was in digital/marketing project management for a decade. When I was managing a training project recently, it was suggested that perhaps marketing should take over. I reminded the marketing director that I had this experience. I had reason to cite my experience, but saying it proactively kind of out of no where sounds strange to me.

      2. frenchblue*

        hmm… “discussing a marketing issue” is kinda vague, but honestly, I interpreted it more that OP may have overstepped her bounds (considering the response from her colleague). But for me personally, the only time I’ve ever said “You know, I have an MBA, so I know about this stuff,” it was because the other person was speaking in a way that questioned my abilities. Just my take on it.

      3. CubeFarmer*

        It sounded to me like LW was giving unsolicited advice, and in fact as I was reading the letter I’m imagining all the letters AAM receives about co-workers sticking their noses into other colleagues’ business.

      4. Recovering the satellites*

        I don’t find it weirdly combative at all. Especially if the coworker is young, female, a minority, or maybe a combo of those things and trying to carve out a place for themselves in a competitive (or otherwise challenging) environment.

        That scenario was far too common for my peers when we entered the workforce ages ago and it took a lot of “active communication” (I.e. constantly reminding our older and/or often male coworkers of our qualifications) to stay visible.

        This is of course true to varying degrees for literally everyone entering the workforce, but it does seem unfairly lopsided for young women and minorities.

    2. MsM*

      Also, OP might need to consider that things do change after a decade away. I used to work in a role that’s now filled by one of my colleagues, and I’ve had to learn to preface my suggestions with “this may be out of date, but…”, because she’s more current on the research than I am and some of the best practices have changed since it was part of my day to day responsibilities.

      1. Lana Kane*

        That was my first thought as well. It’s good to remember that even with background and experience, 10 years away can cause some gaps. I think it’s ok for OP to reply as Alison suggests, but also keeping in mind that the 10 year gap is a factor.

        1. GrooveBat*

          Especially in marketing! I spent two decades in a firm that did sales and marketing training and consulting, and the changes to marketing just in the past ten years have been profound.

          1. Dawn*

            Literally, everyone was all about their Twitter presence ten years ago, now no reasonable brand will touch it with a ten-foot pole. Also, Vine was just becoming a huge thing and it no longer even exists.

            Marketing in the modern age is a hyper-fast field.

    3. Lea*

      It is curious that coworker felt they needed to drop the ‘I have a masters in this’ into the chat, bc that’s kind of out of nowhere and feeling a little prickly may explain it..

    4. SirHumphreyAppleby*

      yeah, that’s what I wondered too because it’s really weird for a colleague to drop their degree and say they know this stuff out of nowhere. I did wonder if LW had
      ( perhaps inadvertently) overstepped.
      @LW though – I know you said being part time works for your family and I believe you. I do however wonder if you’re feeling underemployed which might be what’s causing both the stress and friction.

    5. MM*

      I agree. I feel like OP doesn’t want the responsibility, but is having a hard time adjusting to the fact that less responsibility means less clout. She wants to be seen and treated as she was before she left the workforce. I think it’s probably a subconscious thing triggered by being back in a working environment and potentially feeling some insecurity about having been gone so long (not that OP’s choices are in any way regrettable) rather than, like, knowingly raging entitlement. I just think OP instinctively expects the kind of status that goes with the jobs she used to have, not the one she currently has, and this is…bound to cause friction.

      Which, at the same time, doesn’t excuse computer guy at all (that sounded like straight up sexism with possibly some ageism as well – I only say “possibly” because I don’t know the exact ages of both parties). But I think it’s important for OP to think about the difference between these two types of circumstances before she acts, at least for a while as she’s settling in.

      1. Detective Rosa Diaz*

        This, exactly! Totally understandable feelings from OP and I empathize, but as Alison said, sounds like OP wants the workload and balance that her role has, while receiving the recognition of her doing so by choice and acknowledgement of her experience. While it’s not quite the same situation, I pivoted from one in house role to working in client services at a business that supported folks who worked in my previous role, and I get the desire to make sure people know your suggestions are both valuable and informed by experience. But if I was the marketing colleague being told by someone in a different role (not just an admin! say, a teapot engineer) that they “have an MBA in marketing too” I’d feel like they were being unnecessarily aggressive and potentially undermining too.

      2. kalli*

        Speaking from experience it’s also really hard to figure out and remember where the line is between the lower level job and what you were doing in terms of influence and when you’re meant to take instructions.

    6. Pea Knuckle*

      I didn’t read that in the OP’s comment at all. And I will add that yes it is irritating when you do have knowledge and experience and people treat you like you know nothing, or are ‘just a mom.’

      Recently I took a part-time position so that I could be closer to home and take care of some things there, and not have to travel. I am licensed and certified in my field (a requirement of this state) and I have two advanced degrees and a lot of experience. The high school graduate treats me the worst, as if I know nothing and she puts herself out as the one who knows everything and is in charge. To be honest, I was brought in because the company was failing in some areas, due to this woman’s actions and there not being an experienced person there. In other words, it’s my job as the manager to turn around a failing unit. So – yes, I definitely can see what the OP is describing. It’s very common! I just smile and say nothing, and continue on my way.

      1. Allonge*

        Yours sounds like a different situation though – you were brought on for your experience and you have a management role. The assumption for compentence in your field should be the default, incompetent colleague nothwithstanding.

        OP’s role is important but from what she is describing, not expected to have someone with her background – and most people are not going to think that an admin has an MBA and marketing management experience. Which does not mean it should be ignored, but what people don’t know, they don’t know.

      2. Jennifer Strange*

        And I will add that yes it is irritating when you do have knowledge and experience and people treat you like you know nothing, or are ‘just a mom.’

        There is nothing to indicate that’s the case here, though? The LW took a specific job with less responsibility. It’s not surprising she’s not being asked to give input on things that aren’t part of her job.

        1. Pea Knuckle*

          My point is that may people want to feel important, even when they are with people who really do know more than they do either through education or experience. Clearly the OP is skilled and experienced and those around her are not perhaps willing to give up that frisson of excitement that comes from being ‘more important’ than someone else.

          Being inclusive would allow for those in ‘lower’ positions to also contribute in productive ways, as they are able. Surely, we can recognize true talent when we find it – whatever the position it comes from.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            My point is that may people want to feel important, even when they are with people who really do know more than they do either through education or experience.

            Sure, but if the LW’s importance is based on people taking her input then she shouldn’t intentionally take a job with fewer responsibilities. Her coworkers don’t exist to make her feel important.

            those around her are not perhaps willing to give up that frisson of excitement that comes from being ‘more important’ than someone else.

            There is nothing in the letter to suggest that. Not looking for input from someone whose job isn’t to give you input has nothing to do with “being more important”.

            Being inclusive would allow for those in ‘lower’ positions to also contribute in productive ways, as they are able.

            Sure, but “as they are able” is key here. Also, one can contribute in productive ways without needing others to take your ideas, especially when they aren’t asking for them.

  2. Apex Mountain*

    A few years ago I was in a similar position – I had taken a step back, not to entry level but to an IC where I had been a manager previously. Like you, I wanted a role where I could come and go and do my work without alot of headaches. But, I still liked contributing to higher level discussions and my input wasn’t always needed.

    Eventually I got over it and I was fine with things and only piped up when asked. Though that job disappeared during Covid and then I went back to an even higher level role than I had originally.

    1. tamarack*

      With a pretty complicated career, and a few years but we’ll accounted for, I, too, was in a similar position. By that I mean taking an entry-level job to get into an industry after a career break,disregarding advanced qualifications that were a little too buried in my resume to be immediately useable (or so I thought).

      The only way to fix this was to (somewhat) grit my teeth and seek to move up in the hierarchy, or into jobs with more responsibility and, to be honest, higher professional respect, as fast as possible. Luckily I had a managing director who saw I was under-utilized regarding my technical skills (though I learned a ton of things I needed, about how corporate workplaces function!).

  3. L-squared*

    What I’d also look at, is how long you have been somewhere. Because no one likes a brand new person coming in discussing a bunch of issues. So maybe its not about them thinking you have no experience, but them thinking “this new person doesn’t really know yet how things work AROUND HERE”

    Also, lets be real, you say they are entry level roles. So its not shocking that they treat someone doing an entry level role, as an entry level person with no experience. I’m guessing the most recent people in this role needed more hand holding then you, so they are going in with that expectation . So maybe part of the issue is management didn’t do enough to let people know what experience you DO have

    1. AngryOctopus*

      Exactly. OP, you keep saying “they don’t know what’s on my resume”. Well, why should they know? It’s not relevant to the job at hand. And of course they’re going to treat someone in an entry level job as if they didn’t know anything about marketing. Because you’re in an entry level admin role. They have no reason to think you even care about marketing!
      Alison’s suggestion’s are spot on. To the marketing convo, you could have said “Oh, where did you get your degree? I majored in marketing at X and then did [job] at Y” (whatever is appropriate). You’re not being all I KNOW MARKETING TOO WHY DON’T YOU RESPECT ME, just dropping some fun information about yourself! To the computer guy you need to be clear immediately that he’s removed your search ability and you need it back. If he’s dismissive (and remember, some people are just assholes, and it may not have anything to do with you personally), you tell your boss “JerkPerson changed Y about the database and I can’t search, as you can see here. I tried to talk to him about it but he was a bit dismissive. What can we do to solve this issue?” because at that point it’s a personnel issue, not an ignorance issue.

      1. Sloanicota*

        It sounds like OP might prefer a part time but higher level role, rather than an entry level role since she doesn’t want to be treated like … an entry level person. Understandably!

        1. B*

          Right. This is fundamentally a problem of looking for the wrong roles. If you are going to take jobs you’re overqualified for, ok, but don’t expect the kind of deference that might come with your actual qualifications.

          Incidentally, this is the kind of dynamic that can lead to age discrimination… employers assume older candidates won’t be ok taking direction from less experienced people.

        2. 2 Cents*

          I know from my own search that finding a higher level role that’s PT is like finding a unicorn. It’s a gaping hole in American corporate structure.

      2. Lea*

        Yes! This is what I would say if you want people to know you can drop it all in casual coworker chit chat, hopefully. Like ‘oh where did you get your masters? I got my mba at school x’

        No need for a big dramatic reveal.

        (It guys are different sometimes you have to drop a little hammer)

        1. CommanderBanana*

          Yeah, sadly, I think most people who work in white-collar jobs have a That IT Guy Over There story.

          1. Dawn*

            Actual quote from our corporate IT guy at my last job: “Can you put a man on the phone, please?”

        2. tamarack*

          Honestly, this can backfire. Especially if they have lower on-paper qualifications they may not gain respect but think of the OP as just as junior and react with disdain about the “fancy degrees”. It works better if they’re all about at the same formal qualification level and they can get the message that the OP knows what she’s doing but is just in an odd carrer situation.

          As a technical woman who came into the industry sideways (and then left it to pursue a research career) I saw it many times … and if the people I worked with are fundamentally ok at their job,what helped was finding a solution to their problem (as part of my job if course) that they needed and hadn’t come up with themselves.

      3. Turquoisecow*

        Yeah I don’t know the backgrounds of most of my coworkers. I wasn’t involved in hiring them. the boss might send out an introductory email saying “here’s Jane Smith taking over the admin role, she previously worked ten years at Company doing marketing and has an MBA” but lots of places don’t do that and unless it’s someone I’m going to work with really closely I honestly just briefly skip it and I’m not going to remember in the moment. So yeah if the marketing manager is talking to OP like she doesn’t know marketing, it’s probably because she assumes she doesn’t, and OP can definitely say something like “oh yeah, we did this at my old job where I did marketing for ten years, do you also do that other thing?” and that will probably make life easier for her and the person she’s talking to.

    2. Miette*

      I have to agree–it’s about the context of the work you’re hired to do and the kinds of expectations people have of someone in the role.

      There was a point I was unemployed and temping through an agency. The gigs were basic office admin stuff–mostly I was tasked with filing or answering phones. I was always BORED and never had enough to do, but that was the gig I was paid to do, and that was the work they were comfortable giving a non-entity like me, a temp, do. When I finally got a job in my field, I let my then-manager (the CEO of a mid-sized manufacturing company) know to expect a new person on Monday. He was surprised he was losing his temp to a marketing director job, but he never asked me my background, and I never found it necessary to share.

      1. Butterfly Counter*

        I’m reminded when I used to temp and there was a Dilbert (before we knew what a used-band aid Scott Adams was) strip that said something like, “Temps always feel the need to shout their qualifications and experience to everyone passing by.” I get it. I was doing a job a trained monkey could do and it made me feel insecure that people around me didn’t know that I was actually capable of more.

        When I came back to temping after I got my Ph.D., I was a lot more secure. If people thought all I could do was the monotonous, rote work, so what? In fact, I prefer it because I’d rather not get pulled into complicated paperwork that I would have to quickly learn and never use again before I switched jobs.

      2. Workaholic*

        temp contracts are often explicitly specific as to what work a temp could for. I temped answering phones in an IT office giving Dr’s access codes for a new system. I was hired to answer those calls, and give that info. I’d get between 0 and 10 calls a shift. I begged IT to let me do other things (they had a backlog of papers needing shredded). But as shredding paper was not on my contract – they couldn’t let me do it. I did get to read, study, play computer games, etc but no extra work.

        Just mentioning this as it might not be discomfort with giving an entry level temp worker more work, but legally binding contracts.

    3. Turquoisecow*

      Yeah my first question after reading the title wa “are they assuming you know nothing because it’s an entry level role, or because you’re new?” Because if you’ve only been there a short while, they don’t know what you can or can’t do or what you do or do not know, so it’s better to give explicit instructions that you give to every new hire, until you know their knowledge and abilities.

      I’ve trained new people and some of them were very computer savvy and some were flummoxed by the idea of keyboard shortcuts. As I’m training them, I’ll see if they’re grasping things faster or not, and adjust how I train. And if it’s a new person in another department, I’ll also, like, refrain from company-specific jargon or acronyms in the beginning if I’m not sure they will understand what I mean. Once we’ve interacted a few times, the tone changes from “let me teach you this basic thing” to “hello fellow coworker of equal intelligence and knowledge.”

      If it’s been six months and OP is still getting the “let me teach you this basic thing”, then maybe her coworkers are jerks, or maybe they’re used to dealing with people who don’t understand or do their jobs well.

  4. mango chiffon*

    Is it bothering you because you’re not entry level and are being mistaken for that? or is it bothering you because you feel disrespected? Because frankly, a lot of us administrative professionals get treated like this regardless of our work experience, and I think distinguishing between the two is important for how you tackle this.

    1. AnonPi*

      Yeah admins can often be treated like it’s a miracle we can turn on a computer or open a door, and once other office staff find out you even have a degree (or two or three) they’re shocked (SHOCKED!) someone with a degree does admin work. And it can be really irritating to be treated that way. I was totally looked at differently when word got around I had several degrees in science (I work at a R&D lab), in part now I’m not talked at like I’m an idiot at least, but then I still get questioned about why I do admin work and not research.

      People in my div mostly found out when I interviewed for another position and had to do a presentation as part of it. Otherwise I think I just occasionally referenced something in ‘old job’ or ‘when I went to college’ and it came up that way. I think I have been given some more responsibility because of it, but generally that’s worked in my favor as I get some more variety of work. I’d say it would taking knowing your manager/work group more than we do, to determine if it’d work in your favor or you’re better off not to mention it.

      1. RVA Cat*

        Bingo. I’m sewing this less as an entry level problem but as a pink collar sexism problem. Would your co-workers have treated a male intern like this?

        1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          Some of both, I think. The marketing part seems like an entry-level issue, but I agree it’s hard to see “computers are hard” as other than sexist.

          1. BubbleTea*

            Or possibly ageist. I had to leave the room when listening to a Gen Z kid (this was a few years back, he was still at school) talking about how he works as a consultant to help older people at companies understand how the Internet works. Mate, my dad is in his late sixties and he has been using the Internet since before you were born.

            1. Rex Libris*

              I wonder who he thinks invented the internet in the first place? It wasn’t Gen Z. (Or Al Gore, if you’re old enough to remember that. I’ll show myself out.)

            2. Dawn*

              Ok, but someone’s paying him to do that job, so perhaps not every older person is your dad?

              1. Allonge*

                Yes. Also: thousands of office workers in their 20s, 30s and 40s have no idea how the internet works and could use an explanation / helper. To someone Gen Z a few years back, almost all of those would qualify as ‘older people’.

              1. Dawn*

                As a consultant? Honestly, yes.

                I don’t disagree with the sentiment; obviously someone is paying him to do this. But consultants generally are self-employed.

      2. Commenter 505*

        Thank you. Part of me wonders if OP harbors some out-of-date ideas about admins. She is hardly alone in taking this sort of job because it allows us to unplug at 5 pm. It’s an exercise of priorities.

        I’ve done admin work for many years and have a lot of friends and colleagues in the field. Most at least have an undergrad degree, many have post-grad. I’ve never seen anyone bring that up so their coworkers can understand that they’re “not like the other admins.” We generally laugh to ourselves if someone underestimates us.

        Mentioning their MBA, even casually, should wait until she has some social capital at her job. Depending on how many people work there, the risk is high that she’ll ahem, casually mention multiple times to or in earshot of someone who has already heard the news.

        I agree the database thing needed rectifying, but otherwise, who cares if people at your part time job underestimate you? Over time, they’ll see how uniquely brilliant you are, without you even having to tell them!

      3. Goldenrod*

        Agreed, AnonPi. It’s weird how so many people assume that, if you are doing an admin job, this necessarily reflects the limit of your potential.

        There are so many other factors that go into why people take certain jobs…but I think some people cannot fathom this. A friend of mine had a very well-paying job as a computer programmer, but left a few years ago for a job in a kitchen at a non-profit. He is so much happier now. But suffice it to say, there are many people who don’t understand his choice!

    2. CowWhisperer*

      I also wonder how much of this is because the OP admitted she was out because she was caregiving. Administrative professionals often get short shift because that type of work is coded as being women’s work. Even Alison immediately coded this as potentially an “ego” problem – even though 90% of issues covered in letters are due to someone’s ego being out of line. I really don’t see that being the first issue covered if the starting sentences had been stereotypically masculine like “I left construction management for 10 years to homestead in the Canadian Rockies. Now, I’m working PT in construction and my coworkers are treating me like an idiot.”

      If you are a woman doing “woman’s work”, you will be coded as overly emotional if you have issues. Even by women.

      I ran into a similar problem when I returned to education. I just essentially resume-dropped my previous accomplishments when people assumed I was brand-new and clueless with a calm smile.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I don’t think that’s an accurate read of my response. I presented a variety of possibilities for what was going on; ego is one of them, and I tried to make it clear there’s no shame in that if that’s what’s happening (frankly I could see my own ego being involved if it were me), but it’s not the only possibility for what’s in play. It’s one of several. And I absolutely would have given the same response to a male-coded scenario. The answer is, at its core: figure out what’s bothering you about it and whether it’s an actual work problem or not so you know how to respond.

      2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        This is an…interesting interpretation of the situation.

        First, even assuming the root of most problems is ego, it’s wouldn’t be helpful to list that every time. It would only be useful to list it when it’s relevant to the advice. And it is relevant here, since the letter is about perception by coworkers.

        Second, your example of a is quite off. The parallel would be, “I left construction management for 10 years to homestead in the Canadian Rockies. Now, I’m working PT as an entry-level adminand my coworkers are treating me like an idiot.” In your listed example, the person is going back to their field in a similar capacity, when the parallel to LW is doing a very different job at a very different level.

        As others have said, it’s not unreasonable for coworkers to assume someone in an entry-level job has entry-level experience, though I wholeheartedly agree with the comments that the IT person was making ridiculous assumptions.

    3. Doris*

      I think hierarchy could be at play too. My last job was a low level academic job at a university, and I felt as though we were all treated pretty much as equals. My current position is at the same level at a different university. I feel like I’m seen as very “less than” and some colleagues even seem to go out of their way to make me aware of the hierarchy. I’ll admit it is partly about ego. I have about a decade of experience and decent publications and I do find it a bit frustrating to be treated like I’m new to academia.

  5. CommanderBanana*

    Your coworkers probably haven’t seen your resume.

    I have been noticing that no one outside my direct boss really values my input. In an entry-level, low-responsibility job, that is usually going to be the case. I don’t think being in an entry-level, low-responsibility job and not wanting to take on more work (which is absolutely your prerogative!) and wanting your coworkers to solicit your feedback about their projects as a subject matter expert is realistic.

    1. Medium Sized Manager*

      This was my takeaway as well. There are a lot of people who have great ideas at every level, but the tradeoff of being entry-level is that you are not automatically listened to (and whether or not it should be that way is probably a different convo).

    2. Lacey*

      Yeah, this.

      It might help the OP to think about when she was doing higher level work – how would she (or did she) feel when someone she needed to do work with/for wanted to give a lot of input?

      Because, I know I hate it. Even if they’ve had some experience with the work in other places, it can be grating because they’re not doing it at this place and that can change how things need to be handled.

      1. Sloanicota*

        Also you’re in it 100% of the time and you’re “on the hook” for it in a different way – sometimes it comes across wrong when other people “casually” dip their oar in, especially on the fun/glamorous part …

        1. Lacey*

          Yes. I deal with that a lot. My job has fun, highly visible aspects to it and people really want to give a lot of input there without having all of the facts.

          And they’re usually not people with a background in my area, but even if they were I wouldn’t want their input very often if they’re not doing that type of work right now at this company.

          1. jez chickena*

            I don’t know. You never know where excellent feedback will come from, so maybe don’t be so arrogant.

            I worked with a sales assistant who had an uncanny ability to pick the right creative, subject line, or social piece for a campaign. One day, I asked her on a whim, and she was right, so I asked again. After a while, she just became part of the process. When I had time, I would go out of my way to add entry-level employees to my test group because you never know.

            1. CommanderBanana*

              Good point! But the LW doesn’t want to do that (see her line about being glad she wasn’t asked to help with the newsletter).

              I think I’ve ended up with most of my responsibilities by just randomly being good at something often enough that it became mine. It seems like the LW wants people to somehow know that she’s knowledgeable, but she doesn’t want to actually be pulled into any projects, and she doesn’t want more responsibilities, but she wants to be asked for her input.

            3. Jennifer Strange*

              There’s nothing arrogant about Lacey’s comment. No one is saying people who aren’t part of the inner circle can never have good things to add, but part of being able to add a thoughtful idea is usually tied to having a full picture of the specific situation at hand, which they may not have.

            4. Lacey*

              I ran into this attitude a lot at an old job.

              “Oh anyone could have a good idea, so lets just ask EVERYONE and the delivery driver’s opinion can matter as much as the subject matter expert’s”

              That company is hurtling towards bankruptcy in spite of having a very popular product. And it’s because they keep wasting money on the ideas of people who don’t have the knowledge to make the idea good.

              It’s fine to notice that a particular person has a skill and cultivate that. But it’s not arrogant to be aware that most people who don’t work in a particular department or with specific projects won’t have the knowledge or skillset to make a helpful contribution. And it certainly doesn’t create an efficient or pleasant work environment.

            5. Dawn*

              That’s not arrogance, that’s “I don’t need 50 peoples’ unsolicited opinions when I’m tasked with doing one of the fun parts of my job – I need to get on with doing my job, which I am already skilled enough to do without their assistance.”

              1. Wow*

                No it doesn’t. It makes weak leaders who bend with the wind and can’t actually make decisions because they need everyone’s buy-in – even profound idiots. Gotta love the doubling down on anti-intellectualism and the concept that people can actually know more than others.

            7. Analytical Tree Hugger*

              A key difference is that *you asked for the input*. It wasn’t unsolicited.

    3. Apples and Oranges*

      I think I kind of disagree. I took the examples as her providing feedback on areas of work that she’s actually involved in, with her background being an opportunity for that feedback to be even more valuable . That’s different than going out of her way to insert herself in things that aren’t her business as a subject matter expert.

      It might be just my organizational culture but we have administrative staff with all kinds of educational and work backgrounds and useful special skills and we see it as a huge asset to the organization to make full use of them. Having advanced skills and knowledge doesn’t have to be treated the same way as having a higher level of work responsibility. We still leave the decision-making and responsibility aspect at the appropriate level.

      1. Lea*

        I think admin can be very well respected but that respect is usually built over time. Maybe op is just too new here!

    4. Goldenrod*

      “I have been noticing that no one outside my direct boss really values my input.”

      Yep, this!

      1. judyjudyjudy*

        Ok, but…input on what? In what context is this input being given? I don’t know if I automatically flag this as, LW is so obviously being disrespected and overlooked.

  6. Kai*

    It sounds a little like you want your cake & eat it too: all the perks & accolades from experience & expertise but none of the responsibilities of outcomes.
    I’m not sure it’s realistic to expect your coworkers to accept your thoughts/ideas & then watch you leave everyday not responsible for implementing or anything.

    Personally, I wouldn’t much care about your past jobs or expertise exactly, I’d expect you to do the job you were hired for to the best of your ability.

    1. teacherandhiker*

      I agree with this. There have been times at work where I really do sort of do the bare minimum, due to things going on in my personal life. But if that’s the case, I lay low in general. I don’t expect to get cool new opportunities or too much involvement with certain projects. Its kind of like a trade off.

    2. Lisa*

      I think we can all agree though that the database guy was a condescending ass, and would still be a condescending ass if the LW didn’t have more advanced experience.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          I’ve definitely been guilty of miscalibrating my IT explanations based on demographic stereotypes in both directions. (I once helped a retired woman with a computer issue and had to backtrack to explain what a “file” and “window” were. I later tried to help a different retired woman with a computer issue and was trying to simplify my explanations until she drily informed me that she’d built computers for a living.) I consider it a favor if someone corrects my incorrect assumption before I make even more of an ass of myself.

          Nothing excuses a response like “computers are hard, don’t worry your silly head about it”, though. That guy should get fired.

      2. CommanderBanana*

        Totally agree. It didn’t seem to me that that particular interaction would have been any different had the database guy known about LW’s background (I say this after having worked with a horrible, condescending asshat of an IT guy at my last job), but I’m taking the LW at their word.

      3. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

        The last time I tangled with a software dev *that* condescending at work, it was because he was hiding the fact that his software didn’t work and my questions were about to reveal that. So I wonder if the coworker was being so incredibly nasty to LW because there was no good reason to have changed the database – or coworker broke it! – and coworker didn’t want to admit that.

        Not that LW shouldn’t insist on being treated with respect or shouldn’t make a point of getting the data necessary for tasking!

        1. CommanderBanana*

          Hahahah did we work together?? Ours was a rude, condescending, sexist asshat because he was also trying to cover up that he actually didn’t know very much about the database he was supposed to be maintaining and his way of dealing with being pretty crap at his job was to get agitated and start yelling whenever he was asked a question, because people would then avoid him.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            As a software dev, I am *very* suspicious of teammates who won’t answer questions about their area or bluster that it’s “too complicated” to explain. Every smart software developer knows the only way to get rid of responsibility for a disastrous piece of code is to teach it to another software developer.

            1. CommanderBanana*

              Or my favorite from this particular guy, “the database can’t do that.”

              Me: weird, I just popped onto a few forums and it turns out the database does, in fact, do that, and here’s how.

              He was one of Those Guys who, if he didn’t immediately know the answer, would get angry and say it couldn’t be done.

        2. Leaving academia*

          I was thinking the coworker didn’t understand that it was broken! (Or the specifics of it being broken, but I would just pull out the jargoniest possible explanation of the issue after a bit)

      4. Guacamole Bob*

        Yeah, I was wondering if part of the problem was OP experiencing the kinds of condescending interactions that happen to lots of people occasionally and taking it more personally due to some insecurity about her current role versus her past experience.

        That’s likely not all of it – I don’t doubt OP there. But the problem may feel worse than it actually is if she’s looking at these kinds of interactions entirely as a reflection on her status within the organization rather than as a sign that sometimes people are rude or condescending (or busy, or self-righteous and uninterested in input, or whatever)

        1. Grith*

          I think this is exactly right. The IT guy was a dickhead who probably would have acted like that to anyone (or at least, to any woman) who was asking him to do work.

      5. Ellis Bell*

        The thing is that sometimes you get the exact same vibe, even when the examples are more subtle. I think people on here get a little hung up on the rules of engagement “no matter what your experience you were hired to do a certain job!” which is fine…but that vibe is sometimes undeniable. If OP says the vibe is there, I’ll believe her because I’ve experienced it too. Pink collar work, being new … they can be a lightning rod for hard to pin down disrespect and it’s even more obvious when you’ve held a different kind of position.

    3. not nice, don't care*

      One of the fun things about having one’s experience and expertise discounted is watching dumpster fires erupt that could have been prevented with a little input from the ‘bottom-level serf’.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        Those aren’t a given, though. Not all workplaces have dumpster fires, even those who don’t solicit the expertise of people who were actually not hired to make full use of that expertise.

        This sounds like the LW wanted the lower pressure that comes with a job that is closer to entry level but is now reflexively miffed that she’s being treated, well, as though she’s in a job that is closer to entry level.

      2. CommanderBanana*

        Generally, the dumpster fires I have been witness to were caused by not accepting or acting on input from people who actually were the subject matter experts. Not by asking random employees in other roles for their input. Heck, some of those dumpster fires were caused by random employees’ input being treated as more important than the actual SMEs.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Sometimes the bottom-level people *are* the SMEs, but their managers are the only ones that get a seat at the table.

          For example, I’m a software developer, and the number of times that I’ve asked for input from the low-level, frontline workers who will be the ultimate users (the SMEs) and been told getting their input is too complicated, just go with what their manager said they need, is too damn high. It almost always results in software that fails because it doesn’t account for some critical process all the frontline people do and none of the managers were aware of.

          I realize that’s not exactly what’s described in the letter, but an environment where an admin isn’t allowed to suggest a different marketing strategy or to point out a problem with the database seems like it might be too rigidly hierarchical.

          1. CommanderBanana*

            Exactly. I want input from the SMEs and the end users. Those are the people who have the knowledge I need and the people whose experience I am designing.

            I don’t care if the SME is an admin person. Their input is important because they’re an SME, not because of their job title. If I’m trying to design something an admin position will be using, I want to find out exactly what they need so I can design something that works.

        2. House On The Rock*

          I remember when my entire design team had to fend off “enhancements” being hyped by a higher-up based on input from their high school aged son who they described as an “Excel King”. We were designing a fairly complex, in-house ETL tool…

        3. TechWorker*

          I have had to fix a couple of dumpster fires that were caused by people 2 or 3 grades more senior ‘designing’ software on the fly without understanding the details that meant their idea didn’t work at all :)

      3. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        In my experience they’re more likely to be due to upper management refusing to listen to SMEs rather than senior SME not listening to new hires. Workplaces differ, though.

    4. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think the other reason they may not take much stock on past jobs is that it’s old experience in areas that have changed a lot in the last decade. Tech and Marketing are not the same in 2024 as they were in 2014, so while LW might have general experience in these areas, it’s not up to date experience and may not be relevant to the work.

    5. Santiago*

      I don’t think that it’s fair to treat admins as if they don’t implement anything or they are outside of implementing anything. But then again, I’m my organization admins often move out of admin and into the roles they supported previously.

      In other words, I think your “us-vs-them” attitude to implementation here places admin outside of the program’s product in ways that don’t reflect the reality of many workplaces, where admins may be project managing, contacting partners, and providing other input.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        People are very strong on protecting the in Vs the out crowd today. The TAs at my school were discussing this yesterday. Huge issues in their classroom were handled by the higher ups, and the TAs who are present all the time were not informed, much less had their input sought. I will tell OP, what I told them. Explain the work impact when your input is overlooked.

    7. Ann O'Nemity*

      This is where I’m landing too. A lot of people wouldn’t expect a part-time, entry-level worker to have extensive education or experience.

      Even if coworkers know about the LW’s previous work and educational history, they may still have concerns about that expertise being outdated after all the rapid advancements in the field. Academic degrees and work experience from over 10 years ago may no longer be considered sufficient or relevant without recent updates or additional training.

      And did anyone else flag the LW’s comments about marketing experience? It’s problematic if the LW is pushing her own expertise so hard that coworkers need to justify their backgrounds. I’m not sure why the LW feels their very old experience is so much more valid, especially when they are not in a position actually responsible for the work.

      1. CommanderBanana*

        ^^ I noticed that too. I don’t want to nitpick at LW’s words, but if I was having a conversation with a coworker who does not do my job and they were pushing their (decade-old) expertise hard enough that I felt the need to push back by reminding them that I actually do have the experience to do my job, which is not their job, I would be pretty annoyed.

        1. CommanderBanana*

          And, if they did have the type of expertise I needed, I would absolutely seek them out for it. I’ve gotten great feedback from people in my industry who are semi-retired and doing what I do on a part-time or client basis. That doesn’t sound like what is going on here.

          1. Dust Bunny*

            . . . if they feel they need it. They’re not obligated to do that if they don’t feel they need it.

            Also, the LW hasn’t been semi-retired and doing it on a part-time basis: She’s been out of it more or less entirely for ten years.

        2. ScruffyInternHerder*

          Or even if they’re my “peer” but spend most of the day reminding me that they have XX years experience all the while asking me questions about how to do our job that have me wondering exactly what the disconnect is there.

          1. CommanderBanana*

            Oh god. One of my last bosses was really fond of saying “well, I’ve been doing this since the 80s!!” and it was like, ok, cool, but you’re really bad at doing this now.

          2. CommanderBanana*

            Also, the LW didn’t know that her coworker had an MA in marketing, so why is she expecting her coworker to know that she has an MBA in marketing, or whatever?

          3. Dust Bunny*

            One of my former bosses worked at that job for over 35 years and, yeah, standards were massively out of date by the time she retired. She did a lot of great work, yes, but staying in the job didn’t actually keep her in the game.

    8. Apples and Oranges*

      I guess I don’t understand why using special experience/knowledge/skills HAS to be coupled with higher levels of responsibility. My org has admin with all kinds of unique educations, background and skills and we see it as a huge benefit to make use of that when it makes sense, which doesn’t mean they are given extra responsibilities or decision making power. Just the opportunity to make our work better with input or special projects.

      I Also took OPs examples as projects she was involved in where her background and knowledge is relevant. I guess others see it as inserting herself into projects where she doesn’t belong, which I would feel differently about.

      2. Roland*

        > I guess I don’t understand why using special experience/knowledge/skills HAS to be coupled with higher levels of responsibility.

        It doesn’t HAVE to but when you aren’t the person who understands the requirements and challenges and is actually doing the work, it’s really easy to give bad suggestions and think they are good. Or even to give theoretically good suggestions that just aren’t realistic. Ideas are a dime a dozen.

        1. Apples and Oranges*

          I think we all have experienced the brand new person who jumps in with all these ideas who has no idea what it actually takes to make them actionable in our specific work context. That is annoying regardless of that persons role or level of expertise.

          It’s not clear to me that that’s what’s happening here (although I could be wrong). If I had a team that was working on X and a team member that had background and experience on X that had a piece of knowledge relevant to the project, I not only wouldn’t be dismissive but I would EXPECT that team member to speak up.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            Except the LW didn’t frame it as “I have a background in this if you’d like me to take on any projects” she seems to have just given input with no preamble, to the point that the other person felt it necessary to defend her own experience and knowledge.

            1. Apples and Oranges*

              Why do you think there was no preamble? She said they were “discussing a marketing issues.” That seems like it came up in the course of a work-related conversation. Not just that she came up out-of-the-blue and said “here let me tell you about marketing”

              1. Heather99*

                Today my coworker and I were discussing a marketing issue, and she said to me, “I actually have a Master’s in Marketing, so I know about this stuff.” My MBA concentration was in Marketing, and I’ve been a marketing manager and a publicist. I know a thing or two. I just currently want a job I can leave at the office at the end of the day.

                ^ Is what LW said. Reading between the lines, based on what the coworker said (which sounds defensive/basically telling LW that she doesn’t need help) and LW’s interpretation of it (that she’s being treated like she doesn’t know anything about the topic), it definitely reads to me that she was giving unsolicited advice/help.

                As others have pointed out too, 10 years is a long time to be away. A lot will have changed, and a lot of LW’s background and experience will no longer be relevant. While that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have useful marketing experience still, the fact that she didn’t reference this at all in the post suggests that it hasn’t really occurred to her, and she still expects the marking world to be the same as it was when she left. Which again suggests that the advice she was offering wouldn’t be as helpful as she thought it was, and why a ‘discussion’ about marketing issues to her would come across to the coworker as someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about trying to give her outdated advice.

              2. Jennifer Strange*

                Because the LW herself says her co-worker doesn’t know her background? So clearly she didn’t say, “I have a background in this”. Discussing a marketing issue doesn’t necessarily mean it was work related. It could mean they were eating lunch, the colleague mentioned an issue, and the LW jumped in with thoughts. Even if it was a work-related conversation, it doesn’t mean the purpose of it was for the LW to give input. The fact that the colleague responded how she did is a pretty clear indicator that the LW was overstepping.

      3. Dawn*

        It doesn’t have to be, but that’s not what she’s being paid to do, and it is what her colleague is being paid to do. Unless the colleague whose job it actually is explicitly solicits advice, to some people (a lot of people?) that advice is going to be unwelcome and unnecessarily time-consuming even if the source does know what they’re talking about.

        1. Apples and Oranges*

          The delineations between roles at most work places are not that clear cut (especially with admin support who may be tasked with all kinds of random things). This does not seem to be a situation where she just walked into someone’s office and offered unsolicited advice. It came up in the course of the two of them discussing a marketing issue, so presumably this was a project they were both involved in in some way. It seems really dysfunctional to expect people who are participating as part of a team working towards a shared goal to sit down and shut up about anything that’s not explicitly in their job description. Like, sure, ultimately defer to the person who is the lead in that area. But to not even say anything even when you have pertinent knowledge to share? That’s not a workplace I’d enjoy being a part of.

          1. Dawn*

            While I obviously don’t know for sure, I don’t get the feeling that what you’re describing is what happened here though, as her colleague felt the need to assert her credentials.

            Usually you only do that in a case where someone is overstepping.

          2. Jennifer Strange*

            Again, there it is not clear that this was part of a work meeting (as opposed to just talk over lunch), and even if it were it doesn’t mean the LW’s role in the meeting was to give input. If someone feels they have to respond by naming their credentials it’s likely because you’re overstepping.

    9. Hyaline*

      Yeah, I think that there is the risk of being the “good idea fairy” who expects to be listened to and have their ideas taken seriously but then also isn’t going to be implementing those ideas. Input and ideas are often the easy part, and if it’s not part of your role to develop those ideas into outcomes, it’s not really fair to expect to be part of the idea generation process.

      OP, if you have a strong desire to be involved in higher-level work, that might be a clue for you in considering your long-term plan and how much time you want to spend on a more entry level position.

      2. Allonge*

        I am not sure it’s like this in marketing, but I work in communications (somewhat related) and – EVERYONE has their opinions on it. Almost literally everyone; a lot of people with actual experience, and a lot more based on their personal preferences (this is better as a meeting, nobody should send emails more that five sentences long, all this should be in text etc.)

        It gets old really fast. I wonder if this is part of it – that OP’s coworkers are used to getting ‘input’ from everybody and their brother, and almost inevitably it’s a lot of time and effort but still needs to be ignored politely.

    10. NurseThis*

      I’m an RN and worked a nurse consulting job where a lapsed RN had taken an entry level admin position with the company. She was constantly trying to work on my files, offer me “tips”, trying to impress me with her background. I asked her manager if this was expected behavior since her advice was horribly off the mark.

      The manager was very upset because this person was to have a strictly clerical role. We had many meetings and it turned out the person in question felt she should be garnering more respect “as a nurse” from the staff. It ended up with her being walked out.

  7. Santiago*

    I think people are misunderstanding your letter. You want to be included as a part of the office, or program, or whatever, and you want your pertinent contributions not to be immediately dismissed. Frankly, some people go directly into higher level roles, and/or have never worked in admin, and so they don’t understand what it’s like to have a lot of knowledge/qualifications for something but to be sort of excluded from the team conversation.

    I think you just got to toot your own horn – as Alison said – only when relevant and never out of ego. A cheery – “oh have you considered XYZ? Back in the day, I used to be a marketing director and we did ZYX!” – “Oh, really?” – “Yep! I actually did my MBA in it!”

    Also – using technical language unabashedly when needed is an immediate way to have your expertise recognized.

    Lastly, it can also be rewarding to take on responsibilities beyond your role – like the newsletter! People see it when your work gets out there. I get that everyone will say “don’t do unpaid work” – but it will help your resume if you decide to move up/laterally later: internally or externally. Sometimes something is rewarding enough it’s OK to do below market rate, with the understanding that you can pivot later.

    1. anon here*

      I agree that using jargon is also a good way to jump ahead in the conversation. I got my medical degree from Dr. Google (and Dr. Ask Jeeves, and Dr. Alta Vista, and Dr. Mayo Clinic Reference book on my bedroom floor at age 10…I was a weird kid) and when a doctor starts to define “endocrine” or similar, I usually try to find a way in my answer to use the jargoniest jargon I can so we can skip some conversational steps. (This often, unfortunately, requires mispronouncing things. Which syllable in “dermatoscope” is stressed? IDK, I’ve only read it.)

      Did it once with a pediatric dermatologist who started out trying to explain the difference between benign and malignant lesions, and I was like, “Given the halo, my thinking was that it was a non-involuting congenital hemangioma,” and the doctor, bless her, caught her snap immediately and was like, “Actually, I think it is a rapidly involuting congenital hemangioma that involuted in utero,” and I was like, FANTASTIC, that makes so much more sense, Dr. Google didn’t say it could involute in utero so this is why I’m here! Delightful medical experience, 10/10, would recommend.

      1. Boof*

        I’m not sure if you’re being blaze as a tongue in cheek thing, but I shudder at the idea of seriously thinking internet searches are the same level of understanding as a comprehensive degree or training. I mean it’s certainly something, but there is wild amounts of crap online too, and the good stuff tends to assume a certain level of background that’s being built on

        1. Nachum*

          Anon didn’t say they think it’s the same; they just said they think it puts them ahead of entry level. Which it appears to have done. I don’t think there’s anything to shudder about; they aren’t claiming to be able to give medical care they aren’t trained in, they just are looking for ways to signal that they already can define the word “malignant”, etc.

          1. Aqua*

            My favourite ever GP was the one who understood that I had an above-average familiarity with medical jargon and was likely to have some opinions on what was going on with the health problem I’d come to him with. He’d listen to my description of the problem, ask if there was anything specific I was after, and then make appropriate decisions based on his medical expertise. E.g. “Yes, I think you’re right about what the problem is and I’m happy to prescribe the thing you want” or “it could be that, but it could also be this other thing so I want to do this test to rule that out first”.
            It made GP visits much more efficient because I didn’t need to pretend I hadn’t googled it before showing up!

          2. Allonge*

            Look, I am sure it’s annoying to get explanations for things you know, but I don’t see how a doctor treating you can assume what you understand and what not. It just seems like too much of a risk, to be honest.

            If it’s a longer term relationship, obviously you can expect a bit different treatment, but not knowing what ‘malignant’ means does not make anyone stupid, and at the same time it’s essential that the treating doctor and the patient are on the same page on what it means.

            Trust me, it’s very annoying when you get the medical lingo without the explanation. But beyond annoying, it’s also dangerous.

      2. Nightengale*

        der-MAT-o-scope

        (now doctor who spent age 10 reading the Boston Children’s Hospital Health Encyclopedia because she had finished Dr Spock. . . )

    3. harry*

      I agree. Not sure why ‘well, suck it up, sunshine!!’ is the consensus response here, especially when some of the LW’s colleagues’ comments are clearly patronising and have a misogynistic air.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        That’s not the consensus. The consensus is that the LW intentionally took a job to have fewer responsibilities so she can’t be surprised that she then is being given less clout than she might have in another position. Also, we only heard two stories from the LW. In one the colleague was an ass, but in the other it sounds like the LW was overstepping and the other woman had to establish a boundary. Barring more information from the LW, I can’t blame the other woman for wanting to push back.

    4. English Teacher*

      I think OP is not writing the newsletter, not because they don’t understand that it can be good for your career, but because they have young children and no additional free time.

  8. Underemployed Erin*

    This is a problem with the US job market. A lot of mid-career women want to step back a little bit, but the US job market treats people doing part-time work as entry-level. If we do need people in these specialized fields, there is no reason why 40 hours a week is a magical number, and we couldn’t have people who work 32 or 24 hours a week at some specialized thing. Other countries do support this better.

    1. Helewise*

      I wish so much that this was more of a thing here – but then tried to create those opportunities when I’m hiring and have a hard time finding part-time people with the right skills. I kind of wonder if because good part-time roles so rare, people aren’t even looking for them.

      1. linger*

        Also in part, getting to the required skill level often takes a significant outlay of time and money, which then needs to be recouped through full-time employment.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      I have been taking entry-level positions, because I’ve been out of the workforce for a decade and also because my kids are still kind of young and I can’t handle the additional responsibility.

      She’s been taking entry-level positions. They might also be part-time, but those are two separate things.

      1. bamcheeks*

        I thought Underemployed Erin’s point was that she’d taken those entry-level roles because part-time higher level roles aren’t available, whereas that’s pretty normal in other countries. You could do the senior marketing role on a 0.5, 0.6 or 0.8 contract, rather than the choice being full-time senior marketer or full-time entry-level role.

        1. Dawn*

          She explicitly says she doesn’t want the responsibility of higher-level work. I don’t think this is relevant here.

        2. Jill Swinburne*

          What seems to often happen where I live is that you work and get paid for, say, 30 hours, but still get given 40 hours’ worth of work to do.

      2. Lea*

        I think the pt is probably almost as much of an issue as entry level here. She’s not there all the time. It’s harder to get roped in

      3. PotatoRock*

        in a lot of fields, it would be hard to be out of the workplace for ten years, and then come back to a senior level role, even if full time.

    3. Sloanicota*

      There are a ton of part time technical roles in the nonprofit sector, but … it’s usually because they have a full time need and only a part time budget

    4. Slow Gin Lizz*

      As someone who has a career as a freelance musician, I really wish there were more part-time positions out there. I would love it if I had more time and energy for my freelance work but still had a regular paycheck and some benefits. It’s really frustrating that there aren’t more part-time jobs out there for those of us who want them.

      1. Sloanicota*

        Good point, I recognize this isn’t what OP wrote in asking for, but another way to use high-level skills in things like marketing might be to operate as a consultant/contractor, and it doesn’t have to be full time. It *can* be less stressful because these aren’t all your problems, just the one thing is your problem … (but it can also become quite stressful to be hustling for jobs all the time and not having any guarantees). But it avoids the full “less than time = entry level” issue.

    5. Nancy*

      LW specifically states she is taking entry-level positions. It is not surprising that her coworkers are treating an entry-level position as entry-level.

      1. PABJ*

        It’s hard to find part-time workers when part-time work usually doesn’t include benefits like health insurance.

        1. Nancy*

          That has nothing to do with LW, as she has a part-time job that is entry-level by choice.

    6. Hyaline*

      There’s also, though, the element of responsibility and stress and time-creep that the OP spoke to. She’s limiting herself to entry level, it would appear, not only because of the hours, but because she’s able to hold her boundaries on work-life balance in those positions. Even a part-time higher-level position might creep more or be more demanding when it comes to responsibility.

    7. Penguin*

      Agreed. I have been on the full time job hunt for a mid level role for months and just saw one single job for a mid level role with my experience but part time – something I would jump for perhaps if I had a school age child and just wanted to work the hours they are in school. The hourly pay was the appropriate rate for a person with the years of specialized experience required. But too often part time roles are entry level, and employers who don’t want to commit to hiring a full time person but have a need rely on contractors or freelancers that cost way more than a part time direct hire.

  9. Lucy P*

    I’m curious as to what OP means when they say, “I was hired because I have the experience to understand and cover for the higher-level responsibilities in my department…” Does this mean that even though the position is entry level they are still supposed to give input? What exactly is meant by “cover” in this context?

    1. Santiago*

      There’s a difference between an admin familiar through past experience of current experience with the technical product being produced, and someone fresh out of college. That’s my read at least :-)

      1. Kelly*

        Yes but the questions is what that difference is, and if in this case it translates to any responsibilities or authority. The wording is very vague.

    2. hereforthecomments*

      I wonder about that too. I’m an admin (not entry level–not sure how much that matters), and even though there are others in my department who are managers or a “higher” level, there are things that only the director and I know about or can sign/authorize. Sometimes that’s the way information and work flows. I would not be stepping into whatever “covering” consists of without being asked, however.

    3. bamcheeks*

      Yes, I read that and thought that LW needs to clarify with her managers when and how they want her to in-put in these higher-level things, and if so, whether they’ve made that clear to colleagues.

      If you take the higher-lower stuff out of it and imagine that someone had significant experience in one function but was now in a different function but at an equal level— well, whether the HR director’s input on finance was useful and relevant or distracting and unhelpful would really vary by situation and company culture. Sometimes it would be incredibly helpful to have someone who can cross cover that function, but other times it might very much be a case of “stay in your lane”. I think LW should first of all get clarity from her managers about how they see this working and where her experience can add value and then proceed accordingly.

    4. sparkle emoji*

      Maybe their experience allows them to get off the ground with less training than typical entry level+ occasional coverage when there are absences? That would be my read.

      1. Hyaline*

        The use of the word “cover” made me go to that conclusion, too–that they saw OP as a value-add hire in that with less cross-training than usual she could pick up coverage in case of others’ absences. I do agree with others saying she might bee to seek clarification, though, because she seems to be understanding this to mean she can/should be included when there are NOT absences or gaps, and that may not be the intention at all.

        1. linger*

          It could be argued that OP is seeking clarification/ offering input on precisely the issues that she would need to be responsible for when covering those duties. But then it’s on management to clarify to coworkers that such coverage is part of OP’s duties, and so their involvement is relevant.

    5. Dust Bunny*

      I’m an archives assistant and I know more than enough to hold down the fort under most circumstances but I’m still not qualified to make bigger or long-term decisions for the department. I will never be an archivist without additional degrees, though. Being a knowledgeable and experienced admin doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in a position to substitute for someone who is actually a level up.

  10. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    I wonder how you were introduced to the existing employees. Did your boss or your great-grandboss (the one who hired you) put out an email explaining your experience, what you’d be doing day-to-day, and what you’d be doing to back them up?

    It sounds like your coworkers are assuming that you are a former stay-at-home mom who never actually did any work before having kids. And for all of that to come to that same assumption makes me think you weren’t properly introduced.

    Going forward, can you just leave out the SAHM stuff when introducing yourself? “I was previously a marketing manager for Amalgamated Llamatronics; I’ve been away from the field for a while and I’m just doing XYZ for now, but expect to move into an ABC position in a few years.”

    1. Serious Silly Putty*

      I don’t think they need to skip the SAHM part, but I agree boss should have introduced them better.
      If OP switches jobs, I wonder if they could be preemptive with a little bio they could offer to their boss “in case you need one for an onboarding email.” That could include past experience and what you like about your current job duties.

      As is, I wonder if there would be a semi-natural way to reset? Like the first all staff meeting after we get a new person, we will typically share a bit about ourselves. Can something like that be arranged?

    2. learnedthehardway*

      I agree with most of this. It would make sense for the OP to ask their manager to reintroduce them in the next staff meeting – something to the effect of “I don’t know if everyone was aware, but OP has 10 years of experience in Llama grooming, and was Manager, Camelid Styling at CamelsRUs. She has joined us part time as an Alpaca Stylist after several years out of the workforce. OP knows our industry and has stayed updated on current trends and technologies. We’re excited to have her onboard because her previous work experience will inform her contributions to our team.”

      I would stay away from mentioning future career plans, however. The OP has been hired for the role she is in, and needs to show that she is committed to that role.

      1. Wicked Annabella*

        I like this approach.
        My take was OP’s annoyance has less to do with ego and more to do with people respecting her input because she knows what she’s talking about. As in “When I tell you that X will be a problem later unless we address it now and that Y is a feasible alternative to Z, I want you to take me seriously. I don’t care if Peter said we’d figure it out “as we go along” because I know from experience that won’t work.” But slightly less aggressive, perhaps.

        1. Mio*

          But that’s exactly the type of commentary that the LW should absolutely not be making as a new hire in a part-time admin position. It’s inappropriate from start to finish. Even one with a decade-old background in the field and especially one who has kept her background private. Nor is it her place to demand that people bow to her input.

          FWIW, I am also someone who has moved to a lower level position in my career for personal reasons. If I’m working on a project and I notice stuff like X, I’ll flag it to the author with a gentle “hey, I’ve noticed X but it seems like [explanation of the issue], so I wanted to check whether you think we should change to Y or Z alternatives”. Then they do whatever with my input, which is perfectly fine with me because I know it’s their project and I respect their expertise.

          Sometimes, they take my suggestion with or without an extra thank you for catching it, sometimes they agree it’s a problem but go with a different solution, sometimes they explain that X is right in this case because DEF factor, and sometimes, they just turn down my suggestion. That’s all fine, including that last one. It’s their role to make the call and they don’t have to justify their decision to me.

          Quite frankly, in the scenario you mentioned, I would think that the LW was the one dismissive and condescending, if not disrespectful, to Peter, treating him like a bumbling idiot whose opinion doesn’t matter instead of an educated and experienced professional, who might have been in charge this project since its inception. And I could totally see Peter feeling the need to push back with a “you realize that I’ve got a master in this field, right?”

        2. biobotb*

          But if she wants that level of say-so over things, what was she doing taking an entry-level position? Even if she has relevant experience (which it may or may not be, now that it’s 10 years old), by dint of being entry level she can’t demand that people change their plans or how they implement them based on her opinion.

  11. Chairman of the Bored*

    Even if I’m an expert professionally-trained chef, I wouldn’t expect the people working in the office cafeteria to be receptive to my input on anything if my actual job at the company is another function.

    I don’t work in the cafeteria, it’s not my responsibility, and on the off chance they follow my advice and it doesn’t go well they’re going to have to deal with the resulting problems – not me.

    If LW wants to be treated as an expert for her skills, great. Apply for a job that requires those skills, and officially accept all the responsibilities and stresses that come with that.

    1. CowWhisperer*

      In the IT example, she was explaining specifically why she needed to be able to search database string z for her current job when the worker replied “Computers are hard”.

      That’s not giving feedback at a separate cafeteria; that’s telling a coworker who asks for a spoon to plate veggies on the line that everyone gets tired on the first week of the job – a condescending reply to a valid question.

      In the second example, she was talking about marketing with a coworker who thought “I have a college degree in Marketing” was a good disagreement winning point. That’s not giving advice at a separate cafeteria; that’s trying to end a disagreement between the sous chef and a line chef by having one of them say “I went to culinary school!” Well, duh. So did the other person.

      She’s not asking to take over the marketing department; she’s asking for coworkers to listen to her and treat her as they would another coworker without assuming she’s an idiot.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        That’s not giving advice at a separate cafeteria; that’s trying to end a disagreement between the sous chef and a line chef by having one of them say “I went to culinary school!” Well, duh. So did the other person.

        Except in that example both of them are in a role that make their training obvious, and both of them are in roles that are specific to working in a kitchen. The LW is not in a role that makes her training obvious, and it doesn’t sounds like she’s in one that involves her working in marketing. If she was overstepping in her conversation with the other woman by giving input that wasn’t wanted, that woman was in her right to push back.

        1. Lea*

          I think the difference is that in the IT example she appears as a customer of the IT, and in the other her role is somewhat unclear, but does not appear to be customer.

          At least that’s my read

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            I wasn’t replying to the piece about the IT, example, just the piece about the woman in marketing.

      2. doreen*

        It’s not at all clear to me that the marketing example had anything to do with being treated like an idiot rather that like a person in the entry-level administrative position she was in. Especially since she mentions twice that no one had seen her resume. She’s not necessarily looking to take over the marketing department but she seems to think she should be treated differently than any other part-time admin without a marketing background – and that might not be realistic especially since she hasn’t worked in 10 years. It’s not really clear exactly what her job duties are – but if her job consists of scheduling appointments and meetings, ordering supplies, data entry and so on, no one is going to be interested in her input any more than they would be interested in input from someone doing that job who just graduated with a degree in anthropology.

  12. IT_rocks*

    Have you kept up with your skill set during those 10 years? You’d be surprised how much changes in that amount of time. Also, nobody really sees your resume or looks you up on Linked in unless they have a good reason to. You choose the box you wanted to work in but seem to resent that you don’t get to do the fun stuff outside the box.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Especially in marketing. 10 years ago marketing was very different. I personally wouldn’t be very interested in hearing decade-old war stories about it.

      1. SnackAttack*

        Eh, I wouldn’t go that far. There have been a couple of letters from people who don’t take their supervisors or older colleagues seriously because they had CS degrees from over a decade ago. CS has changed significantly during that time, but that doesn’t mean those people’s expertise is obsolete.

        Obviously this depends on how much they’ve kept up with current developments (and since OP was a SAHM she may not have), but it’s not great to immediately dismiss someone’s expertise because it’s a “decade-old war story.” Again, not necessarily the case for OP given her circumstances, but that kind of thinking can definitely toe the line of ageism.

        1. Heather99*

          I think they’re talking less about the degree specifically, and more about her experience. As LW hasn’t mentioned having any more recent experience/keeping up with marketing developments (which I think she would have mentioned if she had, as it’s relevant and would have been something she’d have done intentionally for this kind of reason), I think the issue is more that her general experience appears to be out of date, not just that her a degree is. Someone who has a CS degree from ten years ago and has spent those ten years working in computer science obviously has up to date experience in their field.

      2. GrooveBat*

        Ugh, in my last job (leading a marketing team) I was forced to work with an “operating partner” our PE firm inflicted on all their portfolio companies. He spent countless hours regaling us with stories about his glory days in the early 2000s and how successful he’d been (until the company ended up in receivership, but okay) and making all manner of outdated, unworkable suggestions. Interacting with him was torture.

        1. CommanderBanana*

          ^^ This. A friend’s mom was a very successful marketing executive. In the 80s and 90s. Doing direct-mail marketing. And she made a bucketload of money at it and is awesome. I really admire her achievements.

          I do not want her input about our Insta micromarketing hyperlocal project.

          1. linger*

            Though admittedly, the content of coworker’s marketing degree is likely to be just as out of date, so citing the degree (rather than subsequent experience) is not necessarily the flex she may think.

  13. soon to be entry again*

    This letter is so timely for me. I’m about to go graduate school in my 30s and am quitting my current high status/responsibility/stress job. I plan to find a different job while in school (something with a half-time schedule if possible), which will need to be a step back career-wise for a few years. I can definitely see myself getting frustrated being treated like an entry level employee again, since I have struggled in my current role to be taken seriously as one of the youngest managers. But I also know I can’t balance my current job or a job of the similar caliber with school. I’m going to need to learn to be okay with being treated like I’m new to the workforce again, while politely pushing back where appropriate.

    1. Cat Admin*

      I was trying to think about why this would bother me too and I think part of it for me is getting mistaken for younger than I am and spoken to in a way that reflects that especially by people who are probably around my age but are in more senior roles. Also maybe my own insecurity that I’d liked to have been in a more senior role by now, but that doesn’t really apply to OP since they’re wanting to be in an entry-level role.

      1. soon to be entry again*

        Yes, I feel similarly! Except my workplace skews older, so people treat me like I’m a child who has never worked before, and the handful of other 20 and 30 somethings at our org get treated the same way, regardless of their actual job. I will not miss that aspect of our office culture.

      2. Beebis*

        I feel you. I had an older coworker try to step in as a mentor maternal type figure clearly thinking I was younger than I am when I was in a front desk role. I told her I was 34 and she was so shocked by that that she immediately recalibrated how she spoke to me. Sweet lady but look young long enough and you can really tell when someone is speaking to you based off what they assume your age to be.

    2. career changer*

      Same here. I’m in grad school in my 30’s, but I look young and most people in my field go straight to grad school from undergrad. So I’m often mistaken for a decade younger than I actually am and assumed to be straight out of college. I have almost a decade of experience in a related field, and some days it’s hard to feel like that experience didn’t “count” in some way. Even though I *know* I’m doing grad school to gain experience I wasn’t getting through my jobs.

      But as a woman in a male-dominated field (and looking young for my age too), I’ve felt like I had to fight for respect for a lot of my career. It’s hard to be treated as entry level again. It might be an ego thing, but I get where the OP is coming from.

      It doesn’t help when you also run into the occasional condescending ass along the way. I think that puts me more on the defensive than I would be otherwise. Blatant disrespect from one person can make me extra sensitive to perceived disrespect from others. It’s been getting easier the longer I’ve been in my program though and I’ve gotten more comfortable with the people I work with. I’ve gotten a little better at not being concerned with how others perceive me, ignoring the assholes, and just focusing on what I want to be getting out of this program.

      I feel you, OP. I’m still figuring this out as well.

      1. Aqua*

        I’m in the exact same situation, I sometimes drop things into the conversation like my divorce or moving to my current city 9 years ago when I finished my undergraduate degree. It’s always amusing watching the bafflement as people do some mental maths and majorly adjust how old they think I am.

    3. radish*

      I’m kind of disappointed by the criticism of the LW, some people are being much harsher and adversarial than I think is warranted. I’ve been in jobs where I could have contributed valuable information and have been completely dismissed and disrespected. People are reading her letter as though she was butting in to someone’s job, but she explicitly stated that part of the reason she was hired is to contribute to other roles when needed. Maybe in the marketing scenario she overstepped, but we have not enough information to tell, so there’s no need to start making up ideas about her character or motivations.

      I understand exactly what she means when she says “they don’t know what’s on my resume,” because I worked as a bartender in a poorly managed bar when I have two years of management experience myself. I was condescended to and asked to work in unsafe conditions, just for the pleasure of working a part-time job while I got my engineering degree. The job wasn’t a priority for me in terms of long term career path, but somehow made my life worse. Sure, that could be an ego, but it’s about feeling disrespected by your peers, and it can come across as confrontational in some contexts when you bring up your relevant experience.

      My take is, humans don’t exist in a silo, and in a good workplace, we can listen to each other and have nice conversations with each other without implying that because someone holds a certain position, they’re ignorant. This is a good lesson that you don’t know people’s circumstances or background, and you may be pleasantly surprised. There are limits to this of course — people do overstep and try to tell you how to do your job — but as a human, you can adapt your reception of the conversation to whatever situation you find yourself in.

      The other thing is that when I found myself in these positions, I’d feel one of two ways. 1) the interactions didn’t really get to me and my experience was something that I kept to myself. I did my job quite happily and had an exit plan that would make me feel fulfilled in the long-run. Or 2) the comments made me feel awful, I dreaded going to work, and I really wanted one or more offenders to know that I was more than the scum under their boot. Because those were toxic workplaces where I wasn’t treated the way I want to be, and I’ve worked so hard for so long, that being treated that way just wasn’t worth the money. So if LW finds themselves in the second place, it’s a sign that it’s time to move on.

      1. judyjudyjudy*

        I think you’re being over harsh to the co-workers, by automatically assuming they are looking down on her with so few details. You’re right that no one should be disrespected at work, 100%. But it isn’t clear to me that this kind of condescension is happening. Alison tried to cover a few different scenarios for the LW to consider, because of that lack of context.

        1. harry*

          I think saying to a less senior colleague ‘computer stuff is hard, but you’ll get the hang of it’ is pretty inarguably condescending, to be honest. I wouldn’t speak that way to a ten year old.

          1. Jennifer Strange*

            Sure, one person was a jerk. But it doesn’t sound like that’s the case with the others.

          2. judyjudyjudy*

            For clarity, I was referring to her current colleague (the marketing person), not the computer guy from a previous position.

      3. Jennifer Strange*

        but she explicitly stated that part of the reason she was hired is to contribute to other roles when needed.

        That’s actually not what she said. She said she was hired because she has “the experience to understand and cover for the higher-level responsibilities in my department”. That could mean anything from she can run a report in their system when the person who usually does it is out to she can lead a meeting with the board/stakeholders if the boss is running late. It doesn’t mean she’s being asked to give input to others.

  14. SansaStark*

    I’m sympathetic to how frustrating this could be (although that computer person is just a jerk and I’d bet my last paycheck that he’s a jerk to a lot of people), but 10 years is a long time to be out of the workforce. The challenges that my industry is facing aren’t things that were even on our radar 10 years ago. I’d imagine there are things in marketing that are pretty different now than they were in 2014. Obviously no one wants to be talked down to, but there might be some room for growth and learning here.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Right? And marketing is an industry that by its very nature changes rapidly. There are lots of industries where knowledge from 10 years ago would still be very relevant. I don’t think marketing is one of them. Heck, 10 years ago one place I worked was still sending marketing faxes.

      1. SansaStark*

        Wow, thank you for reminding me of the Fax Machine War of 2015 that we had at my old company. That really does go to show how much has changed in 10 years.

            1. CommanderBanana*

              (I mean, it was an org for lawyers, so it was probably inevitable that we were going to get sued eventually.)

    2. sparkle emoji*

      Yeah, he seems like the type to claim every request/question is an ID10T error on the askers part, even when he’s the problem. With people that obnoxious, they’re like that with everyone and him knowing your experience LW probably wouldn’t change his bad behavior. It’s all to do with him and nothing to do with you.

  15. A Disappointing Australian in London*

    I tried a similar thing: stepping back from L7 tech work to some L5 work at a different company. The intention was to have a bit of a working holiday with tasks and workload I knew I could overachieve in while doing 20-30 hour weeks.

    I wasn’t able to stay in my swim lane. I saw so many exciting opportunities for improvement, and I couldn’t stay quiet about an adjacent team doing my old job but doing it so badly they would be fired from anywhere else.

    It was a disaster. I wasn’t happy, the client wasn’t happy, I was reprimanded multiple times for daring to criticise another team (Corporate version of the Geek Social Fallacies). Both sides were glad when they did not renew my contract a second time. (The first renewal was only because I exceeded every expectation except keeping quiet.)

    1. MigraineMonth*

      I went from a very fast-paced environment to a much slower-paced one about 5 years ago. It was a necessary response to burnout, and I’ve benefited greatly from it, but the transition was unexpectedly rough.

      It took me months to accept that this was how my new workplace was, that no amount of effort on my part could get my projects to move at anything faster than a glacial pace, and that the only way that I could be happy was to concentrate on the things I could control.

  16. Verity Kindle*

    OP, I sympathise with this! I’m in a similar position in that I’m not using my full capacity in my job at the moment, though it’s due to illness in my case. That frustration that people might perceive you to be less capable than you are seems like a very human reaction to the situation to me. I wonder if sharing more of your career story with your coworkers would help? It’d give them some context for why you’re approaching your job with more confidence than your typical entry level worker, and it’d help you feel less patronised.

    I also think there’s value in normalising the decision to give your job a smaller portion of your energy during certain seasons of life. You could do a more complex job, but you’ve decided to invest that energy into your family instead- women having the flexibility to engage in the workforce in the way that works best for them should be celebrated!

    1. rrr*

      This was something I posted about in last week’s Friday open thread! I am currently looking for an admin-type job to step back from work being so much of my life, to be able to focus on my toddler while she’s still little. (And to hopefully, like, have hobbies and exercise and sleep a little more!) It’s reassuring to see so many stories of people doing this, and knowing that there are ways to make it work. As so many awesome people reminded me, feminism is all about having more of a CHOICE in how we spend our time and energy!

      Wishing you all the best as you manage your illness, Verity!

    2. judyjudyjudy*

      Let me temper that suggestion by saying, LW you might share more about your work experience and your coworkers still may choose not to ask for your input on their projects. And that choice to not solicit your advice, despite your previous experience, would still be work appropriate.

  17. HugeTractsofLand*

    I wonder if some (or most) of this stems from insecurity around being out of the work force for 10 years. You’re not starting from scratch, and you want people to know that! I would probably feel the same way. But the fact is that when I get a new coworker, I’m interacting with them at whatever level their role is. If they’re the office admin, I’m going to them with office admin tasks. If they’re the person who does Y, then I’m going to them for Y and not presuming they can help me with X instead. People don’t actually need to know your past expertise unless it’s something you can currently help them with. Since you don’t actually want to take on all of those extra tasks (and it would be a chaotic office if your role was expected to), it seems more like you want to be seen as *competent.* The best way to do that is to be competent at your current role and to pepper in past experience as it comes up organically. I imagine that once you’ve been at a job for a while, the desire to jump in and establish yourself will mellow out a bit. Obviously that IT guy was out of line, but I hope you start feeling comfortable in whatever role you end up in. Good luck!

    1. Girasol*

      I was thinking the opposite: that it might stem from people in the workplace feeling insecure about their jobs. I felt that same frustration as I moved from one workplace to a different position at another. My new coworkers coached me about basics like using email, talking to managers, being dependable and on time, and so on, in spite of the fact that I was the oldest worker in the group with decades of experience. One of the younger women even offered to be my “office mom.” I felt humiliated. (Yeah, that was ego. But hey, I’m human!) I soon learned that the company had recently laid off many people, leaving the remaining workers missing old friends, feeling survivor guilt, and nervous about keeping their jobs. Why did the company hire me so soon after layoff when they could have hung on to familiar longtime contributors instead? I don’t know, but it made me the obvious symbol of that poor decision. Pretending that I was not a experienced engineer but a teenager in her first job seemed to boost their flagging morale. How it played out: Within a couple years many coworkers quit. Office mom was fired for poor work habits. Another layoff took many but not me. It remained a poorly managed and fairly toxic workplace but the fad of infantilizing me passed. So, OP, can you manage to wait it out? Do you really want to?

      1. CommanderBanana*

        it might stem from people in the workplace feeling insecure about their jobs

        Yep. I’ve been on the receiving end of that from older coworkers who were insecure about their tech skills. The sad thing is, some of them would have made great mentors and we would have all benefitted from them sharing their years of experience. Instead, some chose to just yell “well I’ve been doing X for Y years!!!!” while relying on their younger coworkers to do big chunks of their jobs because they couldn’t or wouldn’t learn how to use new tech.

        1. A Different Username*

          I’ve dealt with this too, not just with use of tech but more often about willingness or ability to deal with organizational politics. There’s nothing wrong with being a long-term IC but some are risk-adverse and wary to the point that they’re not good role models for anyone new learning to navigate the organization.

          Personally I’ve screwed up a lot of my career over feeling like my job is to make the most hidebound of my coworkers comfortable rather than taking my cues from their peers who are confident and secure mentors.

      2. judyjudyjudy*

        Maybe a key difference here is that no one is telling the LW how to do her current duties, like using email. The LW wants recognition (and maybe input) on things outside her current scope but that she has experience in. I don’t see anything that points to her coworkers being insecure.

  18. Statler von Waldorf*

    If LW wants to have a low level job and go home with zero stress every day, then they need to learn to be happy while staying in their own lane. If they can’t be happy dong that, they need to get a new and non-entry level job that actually utilizes their higher level knowledge and experience.

  19. Ashley*

    Sounds like your coworkers could use some reminders on to not be a condescending assuming jerk. People need to stop with the mindset that a job title equals knowledge & intelligence. You never know how a person got into their job position or why they chose it. Next time someone makes a remark insinuating you don’t know what they’re talking about, just tell them what’s what. Take pride in your accomplishments! And keep an open mind. If you can actually learn more from them great! If not, that’s fine too!

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        This isn’t to the level of the computer one, but I find this a bit eyebrow-raising:
        Today my coworker and I were discussing a marketing issue, and she said to me, “I actually have a Master’s in Marketing, so I know about this stuff.”

        Why would she say that? It’s a very odd thing to say. I’ve never in my professional life ever said “I actually have a [fill in degree] in [area of concentration], so I know about this stuff.”

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          I mean, my guess is the LW was giving her unsolicited advice and the coworker was explaining her qualifications for making those decisions? Because, yes, otherwise it is an odd thing to say. That’s why it sounds like the LW was overstepping.

        2. the grampler*

          It would be useful to have the context around this conversation. It sounds to me as though LW was haranguing her colleague to the point she (the coworker) got defensive. People don’t normally go around proclaiming these things unless someone else is pushing them to that point.

  20. LCH*

    it’s rough and definitely depends on what your end goal is. when i was in grad school, i took a PT receptionist position because of the hours and lack of pressure. i just wanted to make some money while going to school. prior to that i had been an executive assistant. everyone at the receptionist job place treated me like i was an 18 yo freshly entering the workforce including the FT receptionist who was younger than me and had less overall experience (and was one of the most annoying people i’ve ever met aside from that). it was maddening, but also, whatever. i sat at the front and did various menial jobs. they paid me. i left after a few months when i found a position with a higher hourly.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Haha, I just had a flashback to working at a coffee shop while I was halfway through my master’s degree. I can’t remember how it came up – maybe the customer was wearing a sweatshirt from my college? – but I mentioned I went there and the customer assumed I was at the local community college, which had a program that would let you start there and then go to my college to finish your undergrad.

      They were shocked, shocked I say, when I told them I was actually in a graduate program. At that café, almost all of my coworkers were getting advanced degrees. One was going to work for NASA as an actual rocket scientist. Another was in an internship-to-hire program at the FBI. He could not comprehend that someone who worked at a coffee shop might also be getting a grad degree.

      (Of course, then the ’09 recession hit and some of those same customers shuffled in with their resumes trying to get hired as baristas.)

      1. Lisa*

        That customer must have been privileged enough not to have to work while they were in school. Bills need paying!

  21. Susan*

    This sounds frustrating, OP! I can relate to what you’ve described (I’m an IC and have yet to find an organization that actually has advancement opportunities for ICs) and I’ve found that one of the issues I have is that I end up feeling like I’m not valued on the team. That says a lot about my organization because, ideally, every person on the team would be valued regardless of whether they’re newer or have more experience. For me, it’s also true that there’s a certain tension between what I want in my day-to-day work life and how I feel about where that leaves me within the organization — I don’t want the added pressures of management, etc., but the fact is that I can still bristle when my ideas or assessments based on many years of experience aren’t considered. Ultimately, I find it ends up being a trade off.

  22. SheLooksFamiliar*

    I think OP is dealing with a couple of things.

    First, as a colleague of mine puts it, some employees seem to need to whip out their Sheriff’s badge and show newcomers who’s who. Establishing presence, pecking order, whatever. OP could be dealing with people who simply want to establish themselves as someone OP should, if not defer to, be aware of.

    Second, I feel for OP in that it’s hard to have experience and expertise she wasn’t hired to use in whole, but her colleagues act like she thinks marketing is something you do at the grocery store.

    OP, as you build work relationships, maybe you can tell certain people of your interest in a less taxing role because of your family goals, and some of your previous work experience. These colleagues may well be your ambassador: ‘Hey, did you know OP has an MBA?’ or ‘I checked OP’s LinkedIn profile, she’s done some solid work in her past.’ I’ve seen that happen before, and could almost see light bulbs go on over people’s heads: ‘Okay, she’s not new to the workplace, just has different goals and interests.’

    And yes, the computer person was a jerk.

    1. judyjudyjudy*

      I think that’s a hard take on the co-worker. We don’t know the full context of their conversation, and I don’t think her colleague thinks “marketing is something you do at the grocery store.” It’s quite possible you are spot on, but it seems really harsh.

  23. I forget what I use*

    There are lots of non-entry level jobs that you can leave at the office at the end of the day. It sounds like you want work-life balance, and that depends more on the company than the level, sometimes. You might be more comfortable in a higher role at a more laid back organization.

  24. Sloanicota*

    It’s a tough one when you want to be half in and half out (I’m dealing with this right now in a colleague who’s sort-of retiring-ish). If you don’t want to be “on the hook” for the grind of a role, it’s tough to still want to have your say when you want and be respected for your expertise. That said, all your colleagues should certainly be speaking to you respectfully and you don’t have to tolerate rudeness or condescension.

  25. Anonymel*

    OP needs to remember she took an entry level position. It’s natural for people to treat her in a way that is appropriate to that position. It’s like me assuming the Tier 1 Help Desk guy I’m talking to and outlining my computer issues to expecting that I know he used to be a CTO for Microsoft. Not how it works. Take a deep breath and remember that YOU put yourself in this role for reasons. You can’t be “admin who is also a killer marketing exec;” you took an admin role and getting annoyed because people treat you like….the admin is just going to make you resentful and hate your job. Now, can (should) you say to someonew who’s explaining a basic concept to you “Yes I happen to be very familiar with this software, but thanks” sure. I mean, I guess you could bring in your various diplomas or whatever and hang them around your desk but… that seems almost petty.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Right? And if that Tier 1 Help Desk guy is being snotty with you because you didn’t magically know he’s a former Microsoft CTO, he’s actually not good at his job, which is being the Tier 1 Help Desk guy.

      If the LW wants to be in a position of being an SME on marketing, they would be better off getting a job in marketing or doing marketing consulting. Although I don’t think the market for marketing consultants who haven’t worked for 10 years is that hot right now.

    2. Dawn*

      Look, if Steve Ballmer is my IT guy, I want him to go back and send me a different tech.

  26. Rooby*

    The key with the credentials conversation is not to respond with them as though you think you’re winning a poker hand – that makes you look petty and insecure. Instead, bring them up as though someone mentioned something they don’t know you have in common, and you’re happily making a connection about it.

    Bad:
    “I majored in marketing so I know about this stuff.” “Well, I used to work in marketing too!” (huffy, snippy, loses status)

    Good:
    “I majored in marketing so I know about this stuff.” “Oh cool, my concentration was marketing too! I loved [x and y] when I was a [marketing role] about 10 years ago, so I always…” [then continue with the point you were making].

    Like if someone mentioned being from Orlando and you spent several years there, or mentioned an obscure director you also love. It gets the same point across in a mature, high-status way without looking like you’re shoving it in their face and thinking rock beats scissors.

    1. londonedit*

      Yes – I also took a step ‘back’ a few years ago, and while I’m now what you’d probably call a subject matter expert in my role, it’s also a role that could be done by someone about 10 years younger than me, with far less experience. So occasionally I have to deal with people assuming I’m less experienced than I am. I find throwing a few comments around (in a warm and friendly way) like ‘God yes, I remember 20 years ago we had to do X’ or ‘I remember working on a book about Y – must have been 15 years ago? We had terrible trouble with the picture research’ can really help. You get an ‘Oh! Really?’ response from people, and there is a noticeable difference in how they treat you. It’s not about being obnoxious about it – but OP could just chuck in the odd ‘I remember a campaign I worked on – must have been about 2010 – we did a whole thing where we printed up bookmarks and gave them out at train stations, it was so much fun’ or whatever. Anything that makes people think ‘Wow, 2010? She’s been doing this a long time!’

  27. Luna*

    as a Head of Marketing, my work life is full of people, from admins to C Levels, who insist they have marketing prowess that I must stop and consider. It’s exhausting.

    Anyone who actually understands Marketing knows there are dozens of nuances specific to brand, audience, product, past results, etc. in every project. Not to mention how quickly the landscape changes. But so often the team that has dug into all the details and come up with a strategy and creative is approached by outside suggestions and ideas that don’t really make sense in context.

    and 98% of the time, these outside people don’t assist with any execution of the actual work – they just want their ideas implemented.

    I get wanting one’s value to be seen and appreciated, but it’s best to earn that by doing something in the present, not bringing up the past. Maybe the letter writer could volunteer for a small matketing deliverable that highlights her skills without eating up all her time.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      as a Head of Marketing, my work life is full of people, from admins to C Levels, who insist they have marketing prowess that I must stop and consider. It’s exhausting.

      Ugh, this. I’m not in marketing but I am in an industry that to outsiders seems like a “fun” thing to do, but in reality is incredibly stressful and exhausting. And it’s really stressful and exhausting listening to people with no background in my industry (or outdated experience) tell me what they think we ought to be doing.

    2. penny dreadful analyzer*

      I am an editor and the frequency with which people proudly share their incorrect grammar peeves with me is also exhausting! So yeah my immediate response to the LW’s “I want people to acknowledge that I know what I’m talking about” was basically “But do you? Are you quite sure?”

  28. Dawnshadow*

    I was in a similar position to you about 10 years ago. I didn’t feel up to a challenging job with a lot of hours and I still had young kids at home, so I tried a variety of things, all of which I could leave at work at the end of the day.

    In particular, after 6 years at a place I liked okay (did not click with other managers besides my own) I thought I would move to another pretty niche retail job where the boss was excited, he said, for me to step into more of a management role. It was a much smaller store and I thought I could learn to manage people better with less people under me.

    After a few weeks I realized that the owner had not told anyone else these plans, to everyone else I was hired as a brand new low person on the totem pole. And he never brought up me being a
    manager again. It was quite uncomfortable. I moved on after a year.

    I did learn a lot of higher level stuff about the back office but not anything about managing people. I wonder whether your bosses are similar in that when they are interviewing you they spitball about how nice it will be to have someone with more experience in the role, etc., but when it comes right down to it they really just need that entry level person and maybe even forget what else was said.

    I would keep your head down a bit more until you know everyone better. I was glad I never told my coworkers I was hired to manage them, that would have made things so much more awkward when it didn’t happen.

  29. NotARealManager*

    LW, I sympathize! I didn’t step out of the workforce, but I took steps back when I had kids. I have a lot of experience and a terminal degree, but because I took an “administrative assistant” role (coupled with having a young face), people outside of my boss assumed I was an entry level experienced worker for a while.

    Unfortunately, I’ve found the answer to this is occasionally taking on more visible and strenuous projects, especially if you don’t want to be pigeon-holed into lower level roles when you’re able to accept more responsibility as your kids get older. And you’ll also have to brag on yourself a little bit when it comes up naturally in conversation or work-related projects along with keeping your skills sharp.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Also, if you want people to notice that you’re good at something, you can offer to help with projects, but it doesn’t sound like LW wants to do that, either.

      My current role now has an entirely different role glued onto it, because I took over those responsibilities from someone who left and did it well, so now I own it. But it sounds like the LW doesn’t want to do more than what she’s doing. So I’m not entirely sure what she wants, other than for her coworkers to recognize her expertise but not actually task her with anything that would use that expertise?

  30. Hroethvitnir*

    I feel like Alison and most of the comments are understating *how much* OP is describing being treated like they don’t know anything.

    Given the 10 years out of the workforce part I came in expecting this feedback, but it really does sound like an excessive level of “you cannot know anything, peon.”

    It’s certainly possible that the LW is out of touch, 10 years + marketing is a lot, but I think it’s a pretty baseline desire not to be treated as incompetent.

    I don’t disagree with reflecting on it at all, but I do think everyone deserves to be treated with respect. In terms of potential oversteps I guess what I’d add is it might be worth talking to your boss about how much they expect collaboration in higher level work, and if they think the way LW is comporting herself is appropriate, possibly have a light chat with the people who are treating her like an idiot.

    OTOH the point about some people seeing admins as idiots + being a woman, compounded by the time out of workforce being a SAHM + getting into potential age discrimination does = this might just be a Thing that’s hard to avoid. :/

    1. CommanderBanana*

      True, and some workplaces are worse about this than others. Tech companies are notorious for having sharp divides between the technical staff and the non-technical staff and treating them as less than. Or law firms between lawyers and non-lawyers. It may be that LW’s workplace is like that, which is more about the workplace culture being crappy than her personally.

      1. Lisa Simpson*

        I worked a few places where they used to conflate “experience” and “expertise” with knowledge of their company’s specific operations.

        All of the experience in the world isn’t going to tell me where Margo keeps the company pens. Nor will it make you listen when your response to “yikes don’t mix bleach and ammonia” is “we’ve been doing this for years, I thought you were an expert, you should know this is how it’s done.”

    2. the grampler*

      We’re also lacking context on how OP is conducting herself in these conversations. It’s one thing to make a single comment and receive a snippy, ‘you know nothing’ reply, and quite another if OP is going outside of her role and forcing her experience on these (also very experienced) colleagues, with an air of ‘I know best’ while simultaneously not wanting to take responsibility.

      Everyone deserves respect, but that goes for OP too.

      1. biobotb*

        Yes, it’s a two-way street. The OP wants credit for having a minor in marketing (but how much job experience?) but doesn’t seem to have much respect for the person with not just the master’s in marketing, but years of experience in the field.

  31. RCB*

    There is a nonprofit board (all volunteer) that I am on a committee for (so, not on the board itself, but on one of its organizing committees) and the board president is a complete blowhard. He is way out of his league, he’s the president because he’s the only one who wanted the position, and this is the only thing he has going on in his life, so he takes it way too seriously and annoys everyone in the process. We butted heads a few months ago when I stepped in and told him he was making things way more complicated than they needed to be. Me, being 20 or so years younger than him, obviously knows nothing, and he informed me as much when he said “well I took the county’s webinar on how to run a nonprofit board meeting, DID YOU?”

    I informed him that I did not do that webinar as my masters degree in nonprofit board management (not even running a nonprofit, it’s specifically focused on running the board of a nonprofit) felt sufficient enough and I was happy to bring my diploma to the next meeting if he needed to see it to satisfy his pissing contest. Needless to say it was one very satisfying comeuppance he received, I’ve never seen someone eat their words so quickly.

    All this to say that you’re going to face people who discount you for various reasons, not all of which you can control. Sometimes the subtle “humble brag” can help though by bringing up things stealthily in conversation like “I did a project similar to this after I finished my masters program” or “This is similar to the 3 databases I built from scratch for XYZ corporation, so I think I’ve got the hang of things to get started but will definitely let you know if I get stuck with anything”. You aren’t being insufferable, you’re just gently slipping in your credentials when it’s relevant so people know that you aren’t a rube.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      As someone on the board of a nonprofit, I salute you.

      To be honest, though, it’s a little hard to tell who LW is from this letter. It’s possible she may be coming off as more of the board president than she realizes.

  32. Emily (not a bot)*

    I’ve been in a position where I felt like my job title didn’t line up with my experience or value, and where I was treated as being more junior than I’d been at previous jobs. It was frustrating. I get it. But the only solution was to get hired into a different job. I still look back on it and I think some of my coworkers were jerks, and there were situations where we delivered a worse solution to our client because no one listened to me. But there was still no answer besides “get a different job.”

  33. shrambo*

    Most of overexplaining sounds like it will just take care of itself in time, as LW demonstrates that she is capable of doing her job by completing assignments and filling requests and her “new hire” label wears offAs for the rest, as in not having higher-ups listen to her input… Is that really the job? “Hired for X ability” is unclear as to whether it means “the interviewer said that X ability was beneficial and gives you an edge over the competition” versus “being explicitly assigned tasks related to X ability at work.”

  34. Goldenrod*

    I’m someone who has always highly valued work-life balance, so even though I attended an excellent college and could have pursued a career with a capitol C…that’s just not for me. It’s not how I want to live.

    A few things that I’ve noticed – some people in the workplace are condescending to me because I’m “just” an EA and they treat me accordingly. These people are assholes. Which actually, is kind of useful to know. Luckily the people I most respect never do that.

    It can actually be handy to see your co-workers’ true colors! For example, sometimes I witness bad behavior that people are careful to hide around my boss. This can be an advantage.

    In the end, the best caliber of people will respect you – they will see your worth and they won’t judge you by your job title, because that shows a lack of character.

    And…I agree with Alison – it’s fine to mention your experience when it arises naturally in conversation!

    One last thought – have you watched “Elsbeth”? It’s about a very smart woman who tends to be underestimated. Just try pretending you are Elsbeth…. . Good luck! :)

  35. Poplar Tree*

    At one time I worked for a manufacturing company and we were hiring a drafter, which was a very entry level role.

    We had a candidate who had an absolutely insane resume. Like this man had patents and a ton of design experience, but not in the really specific area we worked in. He was also fairly late in his career and the impression we got was that he was looking for something stable for a bit until he was ready to retire. To be honest he didn’t actually have the relevant experience necessary for the drafting role, but we thought he could learn, and we also had some very specific projects that we thought it would be good to get his input on.

    When we hired him we were clear that his main job would be drafting which we would train him to do, and that sometimes we’d be pulling him in to some higher level projects for his experience/opinions, but again his day to day was going to be centered around the entry level work we needed. He accepted the job.

    Almost immediately on being hired he had all kinds of ideas on almost every product he saw. He’d come to my office a couple of times a week with some new idea he’d been working on that he didn’t have enough context to understand why it wouldn’t work. If we were reviewing a prototype in an open area he’d come over and offer his opinions. Sometimes the meetings he would interrupt would be with executive leadership or even clients. He had a great background, but he lacked a ton of knowledge/experience in our specific field to be offering the kinds of “helpful suggestions” he was offering.

    This all inevitably lead to us being unable to implement a lot of his suggestions, which you could tell disappointed him. We also had to have some conversations about doing the work he was hired to do rather than the work he wanted to be doing. He was a great guy and eventually we were able to pull him into some higher level work as we’d discussed, but you could always kind of tell he wanted more out of it.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      ^^ This, and then when people don’t understand why they’re being turned down for jobs they’re overqualified for, it’s because they don’t want to end up with This Guy!

    2. AngryOctopus*

      We had the opposite (yet somehow the same) problem with a guy we hired as a contractor at my old job. He had just graduated and was there to help us with starting up some new processes (with the chance of being hired full time after the contract). Two days in he informed his supervisor that he thought he could do her job. Two months in he was telling us about how we needed X and Y for this and it would make things so much easier. Okay kid, as a startup going for Series A funding, where are we getting 1-the money to buy these machines and 2-the money to hire the personnel who need to be dedicated to running it? Especially when we don’t actually do enough screening right now for it to be a FT thing? Your suggestions are not helpful or practical.
      He was not hired FT and informed us that his new job at ThatBigPharma was going to make him, and I quote, “THE automation guy for ThatBigPharma”. Sure kid. A huge pharma with thousands of employees is going to hire a 22 year old with one coop and one contract job to be THE automation guy at their enterprise. (I’m sure that, once he was trained, he would be THE automation consultant for a specific division/group with the company. But I found his characterization hilarious).

      1. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

        These dudes should take their energy into sales. Always hiring, always looking for exactly this kind of attitude, pays bonuses and commissions. What’s not to like?

  36. Delta Delta*

    This is tough. I get OP wanting to just leave work at the end of the day – an entry level, low-stress job is perfect for that. But yet, OP wants to do more than the role calls for. I don’t think OP can have it both ways. Maybe the way to do this is to start over at a different job, and be completely up front about everything with everyone. Tell them you have an advanced degree and that you have experience and also that you’re not quite ready to be back in the full time swing of whatever. That will help the co-workers understand you more, and will also allow you to let that be true by saying out loud. I think OP also needs to think about what she actually wants. Low stress/leave it all at work kind of work, or more advanced work that puts more on the plate/comes home with you? Both answers are valid, but OP needs to decide which one is the right answer for her and stick to it at least for now.

  37. Aardvark*

    I think this response and many of the comments are missing the mark. The LW is having her input shut down by other people’s condescension and degree-waving, not her own. I suspect the question about whether to offer her own credentials does not come from a place of insecurity or egotism, or indeed from having been out of the workforce, but from a very practical place of wondering what on earth is going to make her colleagues listen to her within her current role.

    As a few commenters mentioned, this is a common problem both for admin workers and for people who are perceived to be admin workers, especially if they are people of marginalized gender or race. I think the right question here is “What can people do to get their coworkers to treat them with respect after being pigeonholed like this?”, not “Why are you upset that your coworkers don’t respect you?”

    1. CommanderBanana*

      I’m taking the LW at her word, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect her coworkers, who have not seen her resume, to magically understand that they should be seeking out her marketing expertise (but not asking her to take on additional projects!). Her coworkers may also have no idea that she’s supposed to be taking on higher-level responsibilities (which, again, I’m confused about because she doesn’t actually want to?). This is an issue she can address with her boss and ask for her role to be made more clear to her coworkers.

      I am not dismissing her feeling as though she’s not being taken seriously in her admin role – I have been in that situation more than once, and it really does suck – but that is a different conversation than being upset that your coworkers are not soliciting you for input.

      Unsolicited ‘advice’ is often interpreted as criticism, and that may be why her coworkers are reacting the way they are.*

      *Except database guy, he just sounds like an all-around jerk.

      1. Apples and Oranges*

        I don’t think she’s expecting her coworkers to seek her out though? It seems like she’s offering suggestions in the course of work within her scope but those suggestions are just being automatically discounted because of her job title. It’s also not clear to me that she’s offering advice that is unsolicited. It seems like this came up in the context of a back and forth discussion with her coworker, presumably that was related to both of their work responsibilities.

        I do totally agree though that she can’t expect her coworkers to understand her background unless she (or her boss) sees fit to inform them.

        1. Dawn*

          Look, if someone says to me “I have a suggestion for how you do your job” and I say, “I do have a master’s degree in this, you know,” it’s because you’ve offended and/or condescended to me.

          I have very much to agree with others here is that the issue is with, must be with, offering unsolicited or otherwise unwanted advice. It would just be bizarre for the coworker to bring up their degree otherwise.

          1. Apples and Oranges*

            I guess I feel that there’s a distinction between input and advice. “I have a suggestion for how to do your job” is almost always obnoxious no matter who is saying it. But two colleagues working on a project together kicking around ideas…that’s just input and it makes work better. I guess I got the impression it was the latter and the letter writer was immediately discounted with“I have a masters in this so I don’t value your thoughts.”

            I’m also getting the impression that maybe my workplace is much more…collegial? than most of these commenters. We are regularly required to bring our projects to the whole team and everyone including admin support are encouraged to offer thoughts and input. And we do that informally all the time.

            1. Dawn*

              I think that can work in some workplaces, but not all of them.

              But remember that we’re only getting the OP’s side of the story here, and even in her own accounting, the colleague rather abruptly informed her that she was, in fact, qualified to do her job.

              Unless the colleague is really weird – which happens, don’t get me wrong – that’s just not something people do unless they’re made to feel that they have to.

        2. judyjudyjudy*

          I read the letter the same way CommanderBanana did…that the LW wants to give input on projects outside of her work scope because of her experience, but she hasn’t really shared her work credentials with anyone.

          So, maybe the situation is a bit unclear.

        3. Myrin*

          Yeah, I read it the same way and I’m surprised that basically everyone else got a different impression. I would love to get an update by OP where she goes into greater detail about this.

        4. Allonge*

          Maybe that is something OP should clarify for herself. Here is the thing: it’s normal, and even expected, that new people in entry level roles get explanations on technical things, or the field and so on.

          It’s also to be expected that coming in as a new person to an entry-level job, people will find it strange that you have opinions on technical things. It’s not that everyone in an entry-level job is stupid, it’s that people don’t expect them to be experts, and then it’s weird to get input on how to do your job from a newcomer non-expert.

          OP really needs to clarify, not the least to herself, what the issue is here. Her manager might need to inform the team that as OP has marketing background, she will be doing X tasks the previous person in the role could not. Or the manager may need to clarify to OP that she should stay out of projects like Z. And so on.

    2. frenchblue*

      I totally agree that there are often issues with admins being treated as “less than.” Especially with OP’s first example – that guy was wildly out of line. But, I also think OP may be misinterpreting her role here. If her role does not include giving input, and she’s routinely offering it unsolicited, then I can totally see how it would come off as an overstep. Of course, she should always be treated with respect, but that doesn’t mean others have to listen to her suggestions if that’s not part of her job.
      It’s hard to tell without details, but personally, the only time I’ve ever said “You know, I do have an MBA” was when the other person was speaking very condescendingly toward me. So when I read that in her letter, I felt like she might be encroaching on other’s territory. Maybe it would help to share her qualifications (I definitely would), but also, maybe it’s still just not her role here.

      1. CommanderBanana*

        ^^ That. I don’t think a coworker would feel compelled to mention their credentials if they didn’t feel like they were being undermined. I’ve never felt compelled to mention my experience or background except when someone is giving me unsolicited, unwanted advice.

    3. Poplar Tree*

      I think there are two parts to this. One is a lack of respect for OP as a person and one is a lack of respect for OP’s work experience/opinions.

      The lack of respect for the OP as a person Alison addressed and said, hey you’re right that type of thing needs to be addressed. OP should be flagging anything that stands in the way of her doing her duties as assigned.

      But as to what’s going to make her colleagues listen to her in her current role… thats where the egotism potentially comes in. The fact is that OP accepted an entry level role. That usually means her ideas are going to be taken with entry level seriousness especially while she’s new. OP comes across like she doesn’t want the responsibility of a higher level role, but she wants to be able to do the interesting bits for which she is qualified. Unfortunately those just aren’t the roles she agreed to do.

    4. Jennifer Strange*

      The only person in this who was 100% condescending was the guy with the computer. We don’t know what led to the other woman giving her credentials, but it’s very possible the LW was overstepping to the point that the other woman felt she had to justify her own abilities in response. It sounds like the LW may be expecting something that doesn’t come with the job they’ve chosen to take.

      1. CommanderBanana*

        Yeah, that’s the read I’m getting. Also, not sure why the LW is expecting her coworkers to know her credentials if she doesn’t know theirs.

        I think this is just one of those letters that can look two different ways depending on how you tilt it, like that rabbit/duck optical illusion. Who knows, maybe tomorrow someone will write in wondering why their organization’s new admin person keeps popping up in the marketing department with unsolicited feedback! Life is a panoply of wonders.

    5. mango chiffon*

      I am an admin, but my work is entirely admin. I am welcome to join my research colleague’s brainstorm sessions if I want to, but I do not want to add more to my plate and I am not invited to every research team meeting so I can provide input. LW’s coworkers don’t know about her background and LW also doesn’t want to do the higher level work so she can maintain her schedule the way she wants it. There’s a difference between being disrespected (which I agree happens to admins a lot) and expecting to have input at a higher level because of her background. She needs to figure out if she’s being disrespected (possible), or if they are not asking for her input because she is in an administrative role.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        I think this is a great way to put it! I work in fundraising at a theatre and have respect for all of the employees who work here at all levels. I’ve even made sure to give kudos and pass along positive feedback to our box office and front of house staff (easily the most thankless positions). But I would be taken aback if any of them were upset that we weren’t taking their unsolicited (as it sounds like is in this case) input on something related to fundraising. That’s not to say collaboration can’t or doesn’t happen, but even if they have a background in fundraising they may not have enough of the big picture of our goals and needs to really give insightful input.

        1. A Different Username*

          Taken aback would be an understatement for me. In my experience admins in the LW’s situation sometimes act threatened, defensive, or confused when they don’t have enough information to understand the big picture. That gets old after a while, even when it’s unintentional, and it can look as if the LW is being dismissive and creating confusion rather than overstepping.

          As a subject matter expert I really resented having to deal with an admin who needed to feel included more than they were willing to listen to and meaningfully learn from others. Good admins collaborate well without drumming up this kind of discomfort in competent coworkers.

    6. biobotb*

      The LW apparently feels she should be respected on the basis of her degrees, but doesn’t offer the same respect to others. If she feels her minor in marketing should garner her respect, she should respect someone’s master’s in the field even more.

  38. Lisa Simpson*

    One of the things I’ve noticed at work is that there’s only a certain amount of knowledge that your position is authorized to have. There have been times when I’ve had outside knowledge about something that we were working on at work that affected my job, but because I was not hired or paid for that knowledge, I was not “authorized” to know it, and thus, it did not exist to my employer.

    Some employers are smart and will leverage this to benefit the department. Some want the widget counters to count widgets and they don’t care if one of the widget counters is also a lawyer and notices that the company is about to rack up giant fines because the widget counting process is a major legal violation, because they’re just a widget counter so shut up and count widgets.

    1. Dawn*

      I think this is a little overly-simplistic; in your example, yes, obviously your company should want to know that (although it seems a rather extreme example.)

      But in most cases it’s not that you’re “not authorized to know” things, which is unnecessarily adversarial: rather, you’re paid to do a certain job, and offering unsolicited advice to the people who are paid to do different jobs, often at a higher level than your position, is not appreciated by them and actively takes up time both of you could/should be spending doing your own work.

      In general, when you agree to do a certain job, especially a lower-level job, you’re expected to stay in your lane. Not because you can’t do the other job but because it isn’t your job to do it.

    2. Aardvark*

      This is a really good encapsulation of something I was struggling to articulate, and I think it threads the needle of my impression in the comment above + the replies to it.

  39. AC36*

    I’ve gone from a higher-responsibility position to a lower position in the same field. I understand how someone could be frustrated with not being recognized for their full experience. I went from being a borderline workaholic at a higher position to having a position with less responsibility and fewer hours – which I don’t regret.

    Here’s what I learned though: Do the job that you are paid for, go home, and enjoy your life. Let people learn and take responsibility for their own jobs. If they ask for your input, give it at that point, but I wouldn’t give it otherwise. Because, guess what, no matter what input you give for a position that isn’t yours, you’re not getting paid for it. And, the co-workers don’t seem to want or appreciate it.

    It sounds like OP’s supervisor knows what they are capable of, so if/when it comes time for promotion with extra responsibilities WITH compensation, then that’s the time to show that experience to co-workers.

    I think you’d be surprised how many of us are overqualified for our jobs.

    Now, the IT issue – that’s frustrating because it hinders your work. Maybe think about how to phrase the issue differently (if that would even make a difference) for similar issues in the future. If he still doesn’t listen, you could escalate the issue, since it would hinder the ability to do your work.

    Best of luck!

    1. Goldenrod*

      “Here’s what I learned though: Do the job that you are paid for, go home, and enjoy your life…I think you’d be surprised how many of us are overqualified for our jobs.”

      Yes, +1000

  40. Rocky*

    Oh LW, I do understand the frustration. But I agree with AC36, just do the job you’re hired for, go home and enjoy life. I have a pretty stellar resume in my industry with senior and strategic roles. My whole team have been transferred into an organisation (long story) that doesn’t really want us or have work for us. So I have been treading water for about four months, getting a very good salary for a small amount of work. Last week I went out for coffee with a new colleague. It turned out she’s been hired at an hourly contracting rate to do exactly the kind of strategic work I have done for years. The senior manager has my resume and those of my whole team; but in my view if he wants to hire an expensive contractor to do this task that’s his prerogative. Not every job will be satisfying. *shrug*.

  41. Overthinking it*

    sounds like op is some how afraid to push back. Like to the lady who said she had a masters in marketing snd knows stuff, why didn’t you just say: “Yeah, me too!” and then you could back down a little and say “Well, it was actually a concentration in marketing. And I used to run xyz,. . . but I realize this is you baileywick here at abc Corp! I’ll try not to overstep.. . .And to the guy who said “computer stuff is hard” why not say “I’ve never found it hard, exactly, but this is frustrating! See, I’ve built big databases myself – at LMN inc – so I know” (or if yuo want soften “I’m pretty sure”) this can be done. And I really need it!” Did you reply at all to these people? You don’t have to show them up to let them know what your background is – it just came up in the conversation!

    1. Happy*

      Agreed! If people don’t know about your relevant experience, you should tell them, especially when it naturally comes up in conversation like that!

    2. Myrin*

      Yeah, those seemed like the most natural replies to me in the situations described and I was surprised that apparently OP didn’t respond at all in either case (I’m gleaning this from “should I continue to keep my mouth shut”)? You’re not going to sound like a jerk if you just say “me too” or “I did this in the past” or “I actually worked on XY before” or “no worries, no need to explain, I got you” or something like that.

  42. Snoozing not schmoozing*

    Where I worked, there was a receptionist job that some of us used as a foot in the door to other positions, letting everyone know what other qualifications we had. One department head jokingly called us vultures, waiting for a staff member to drop. I think there were at least six of us who moved up that way, but unless the OP has plans to do something like that, they need to do the job they have, and only bring up their past education and career in casual conversation.

  43. Sparkles McFadden*

    I get how you feel, LW, but you really need to examine what it is you want from this job. It sounds like you do want a job you can forget about during your off hours, but you want everyone to respect your skill set/experience/knowledge base eventhough you’re the new person with no track record there yet.

    Your colleagues are full-time people who have been working there longer. They probably don’t want input from the new part-timer. There’s no personal judgment in that. This is what you’ve signed up for. In situations where someone is dismissing you (like the database searchability example) and you cannot do your actual job, you get to say “Dude, I need that field to be searchable because…” and escalate this if the coworker still dismisses you. Someone who is like that would dismiss you even if you were carrying a sign with your CV written out on it in neon. That guy sounds like he’s a separate issue (and the separate issue is probably that he’s a tool.)

    As for the boss hiring you because you understand the higher-level work…well, yeah, she probably liked the idea of getting someone who would pick up quickly and fill in in a pinch. That doesn’t mean she expects you to be the go-to person for anything. I think you need to focus on the upside of being a person who gets to leave the job at the door when you go home.

  44. RamonaThePest*

    OP, I get that it’s hard coming back into the workforce, starting off part time is a good choice. I stayed home for about ten years, went part time (substitute teaching) for two more, then went back full time. When I did go back full time, I had to start over proving myself and adapting. Everyone has given you good advice on pushing back gently but also understanding your role.

    We hired someone who had been a specialist at her previous district (which, unlike ours, had some administrator level duties.) She was…something else. She spent our team planning (40 minutes) “demonstrating” how to teach strategies we knew very well how to teach. She was an excellent teacher, but an awful colleague. She would drag out her binder of test prep materials five years old, and side with the other colleague because “we’ve always used this.” Yeah, the awful poem about Laika, the Soviet dog into space for certain death is a great choice of a) poetry and b) topic for ten year olds.

    After a couple of drinks at a post work happy hour with the team, she said that she had been so worried that when she came to work us (large rural and suburban district; experiencing exponential growth now) she thought “I’d just stop growing as a teacher” because her inner city school district was soooo much better than our district. Yeah, you just told us that we were hicks in the sticks when it came to professional growth, but you put zero effort into anything new that was out of your comfort zone. I get it, you have a demanding husband “Andrew says…” was a frequent statement from her; you have two young children and education today requires way more hours and tasks beyond reason.

    OP might be giving off some of those vibes; she does need to push back gently on some comments; she needs to understand that when you get back in the work force there are changes, and you have to start proving yourself all over again. Push back gently on the ageist remarks, and recognize that you are going to have to prove yourself again now, and in the future when you go back full time.

  45. Seeking Second Childhood*

    I hung my 15th college reunion memorabilia on my bulletin board and in the eyes of a certain engineer turned into someone he’d listen to.

  46. Bethany*

    Seems to me like OP intentionally took a job with less responsibility and is now annoyed that their colleagues are now treating them like they have less responsibility.

  47. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

    I actually put a lot of the ‘blame’ for this situation on the manager who hired OP, who seems to have dropped the ball on introducing OP and framing the situation.

    The subtlety here is that OP has an entry level role, yes, but not “just” that – OP is also expected to be able to cover and pitch in for higher-level and different work (related to OPs previous experience). As such, in order to have legitimacy in the ‘covering’ work? OPs colleagues need to know that OP does actually have experience/expertise in those areas, and that needed to have come from the boss to those people, explaining that (e.g.) OPs substantive role will be Admin Officer, but she has an extensive background in x and part of OPs role will also be to cover in y and z areas. That’s why it is different from OP “just” having related experience, bit is now in an unrelated role.

    As for what to do about it now… I don’t think addressing it in the moment with colleagues will be very effective, although you can certainly try. I actually think this needs to be a conversation with the boss, who can hopefully reset people’s expectations.

  48. WomWombat KoalaLala*

    This isn’t relevant to LW at all but I left a case management role due to burn out, toxic management and health problems only into my 30s.
    I then moved onto another organisation with a new role, but came across a different department in the office which pretty much did similar case management to my previous role, only with different clientele.
    I’d overhear them ranting and debriefing, and it took my strength to hold back and not provide ‘unsolicited’ advice. I had to keep reminding myself that organisation has a different way of facilitating things, everyones experience is different to mine, and that I left my previous role for a reason.

  49. Double Secret Probationer*

    It seems like her manager also could’ve headed this off at the pass. When we have a new hire here at the trampoline factory, they’re introduced to the company and the team (usually team first) with a few pertinent details too. “Jane Smith will be working part time with us as an admin, and we’re really lucky to have her because she has an MBA from MBA University and has managed marketing accounts and built databases before.”
    Then it’s not so much, “why is the part timer doing this?”

  50. Who Plays Backgammon?*

    Welcome to admin.
    Welcome to entry level.
    Welcome to part time.

    During the Great Recession I lost my job & after a year finally found a low-level admin job. I was damn lucky to get anything in that place & time. I went from having 5 direct reports to making copies, answering phones, running errands, and being treated/spoken like an idiot.

  51. DJ*

    Part of LWs concern is being treated like they are an idiot. Admin staff are often undervalued, seen as stupid and their work unimportant and their position easily dispensed. Yet as it’s a discrete skill set and aptitude it’s amazing how many senior staff struggle at doing the work and offload it onto someone else. That attitude by others can flow into not being included and even not spoken to socially. For example more senior staff will chat to others about things that are important to them e.g how did Mary go in her exam, how was your trip to x etc.
    LW should ensure they treat the other admin staff well, with the same respect she’d like, engage with them in the same way ie general interest in what’s happening in their lives in an appropriate way. And when patronised briefly mention their relevant past experience. But also be sensitive to whether their input is appreciated and back off if not.
    Computer guy was a jerk. It’s not 1986 where too many user friendly details took up so much data there was no space for document or input data.

  52. DJ*

    I’m also wondering if those admin who are highly qualified and experienced elsewhere get treated with suspicion by other admin staff.

  53. MCMonkeyBean*

    Unless you were being really overbearing with the second coworker, both of your examples sound like they would be pretty rude to say to *anyone* even if they only did have entry-level experience.

  54. Jaina Solo*

    Personally, I never feel like you should have to share your credentials, but depending on your age/gender/other descriptor, some people can’t see you as capable without that knoweldge. I’ve run into this sometimes too and it’s interesting how it plays out. Seems like usually there’s two groups–1) the snob/insecure know-it-all, or 2) the unaware.

    It’s really hard to tell the difference between the two because they can seem like the same at first glance. I think Alison’s advice is great for distinguishing this too–mentioning your credentials if appropriate, totally exposes which one is trying to lord their knowledge over you or which one really didn’t know and is pumped to find a fellow [insert specialty] buddy.

    I found the snob out pretty quick at my one job. When assisting someone with a project they weren’t fully qualified for, the department that usually puts out that type of deliverable sent a reply of “well we need to review this as experts in [discipline].” So I politely responded back “thanks [coworker], my grad degree dedicated an entire class to this area of [discipline] so I totally understand that we’ll want your input before it goes live.” While mentioning just a class wasn’t the best “credential” it still quieted the snobbishness and I had no more issues with that group. (The irony was I was just meant to put out an initial draft at least so something got written on paper and could move along in the development process. But insecurity reigns supreme for some people.)

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