I’m about to manage someone who thinks we’re good friends, but we can’t be

by Alison Green on July 16, 2024

A reader writes:

I have accepted a management role in a new team my company has set up. My coworker also applied for the role (unbeknownst to me at the time). She was not offered the job, but was offered one of the team roles so now I will be her manager. I found this out before her and was initially concerned that she might be upset, but the opposite problem has occurred: she is delighted and is telling everyone that if it wasn’t to be her, she would have wanted it to be me as we are so close and great friends. She is also saying that our team will be amazing with both of us on it.

I am not a very demonstrative person but she is. Up until now, I have been fine with her suggesting hugs when she’s happy or one of us has a birthday, etc. I wouldn’t have described us as any closer than any of my other colleagues, but I think she feels differently. Previously it seemed mean to make this clear since it wasn’t causing a problem.

I am concerned that unless I nip this in the bud before we start our new roles, we will both end up looking unprofessional, other members of the team will be upset at our being “close” (according to her), and she is going to get a horrible shock when it comes to performance management. She is great at what she does and I think she will be an asset to the team, but I want to sensitively address this so she doesn’t become defensive or lose face.

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  •  Am I being a scrooge about my employee’s lunch break?
  • Client wants to monitor our work in a weird and invasive way
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{ 98 comments }

{ 98 comments… read them below }

  1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    That last one is wild to me. I remember reading it before. For one thing how does the software know when it should or shouldn’t be taking pics?

    1. r..*

      It doesn’t. It just screenshots at a fixed interval during a time period it was configured to do so.

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        I had to read that a couple times to understand the clients counter point. OP will only provide the data from the time spent working on client’s job? How? By editing the results of the data? Then it’s not very useful is it, if the contractor can edit and the client will accept edited versions? (who pays for OP’s time spent editing?) Or alternatively, they pinky promise only to look at the times that OP states are client’s work? It’s client’s monitoring software, so it seems like the latter. How tf will that work?

        1. Flor*

          It reads to me like the client thinks they have a monopoly on the LW’s time, which is not how contracts like this work. I think this kind of software is overly invasive even for employees, but for an external contractor that has fixed deliverables and other clients it smacks of an enormous sense of entitlement.

        2. Decidedly Me*

          Most of these things aren’t “on” 24/7. They’re usually tied to clocking in/out. So, the client is saying that when LW’s company is working on their project (and therefore using the software that takes the screenshots), the company shouldn’t be working on anything else at the same time and therefore, nothing from other clients will be captured.

          1. Suzannah*

            Well… that doesn’t make sense, though, because LW says this is not an hourly-paid project. They have a project with some deliverable dates, and they make those deadlines. It’s entirely reasonable that someone would be working on a couple of projects at once, when they are contractors.
            At any rate, it is wildly invasive and stalker-ish to surveil someone’s computer – it would be bad enough if they were employees, but they are not! I’d be tempted to just cut the cord with these controlling creeps anyway. Not worth the money.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              Yup, that’s one of the disconnects. The client is insisting that the contractor report hours and not work on projects for other clients during those hours, which would be pretty reasonable if the contract were actually set up to charge by the hour.

              Forcing your contractor to install spyware that takes screen shots, though, would be a pretty huge overreach even for hourly contracts. What if the contract rounds to the nearest 15 minute block, and I switched to another client’s project 5 minutes before the hour was up? What if the software did more than it admitted (because once you’ve installed software with permission to take screenshots and send them without your intervention, it can do that pretty much whenever it wants)?

              1. AcademiaNut*

                Even if they were charging by the hour, the LW would have the ability to choose which hours, so the clocking in and out at set times wouldn’t work. It also assumes that client has the right to see anything on the LW’s personal computer’s screen, which would include things like open email/messaging/address book programs and popup notifications, which could be about other projects or personal stuff.

                If the client wants that sort of access to the computer, they have to provide the computer. And if they have set hours and are providing equipment, the line betweeen contractor and employee starts to get fuzzy, and they may be on the hook for tax deductions, UI and pension contributions, etc.

                1. I can read anything except the room*

                  Exactly this! LW is a consultant who has every right to expect they can use their *personal* computer to check personal email, email from other clients, login to their online banking, etc whenever it makes sense, without having to “clock out” every time just to appease a control freak client who has no business dictating whether or how often LW takes breaks in the middle of working on his projects. I mean, sheesh, I personally don’t get desktop notifications for email but a lot of people do! LW would have to disable them even if they find the pop-ups help them be more responsive to clients, just to make sure a preview of a client email never got captured in a screenshot!

        3. CherryBlossom*

          From what I gather, the client only wants OP to work on their project, all day every day, until it’s completed. In their eyes, the invasive software is fine because OP’s agency “shouldn’t” be working on anybody’s else’s project at the same time, which is ridiculous to expect from a contracted agency.

          Heck, even when I worked as a freelancer, I’d spend a few hours starting Project A, a few hours wrapping up Project B, and a few hours in the middle of Project C. That’s just how it works when you’re contracted.

          1. starsaphire*

            Oh, totally. Not to mention, a lot of freelancers freelance because they can be flexible with their time.

            So your elderly mom has a doctors appointment at 2pm, say…. is this client going to go kaboom because your computer was off? Are they going to question the screenshot from 11pm because that’s when everyone’s finally in bed and you can focus?

            Bananapants in a Carmen Miranda bananahat.

            I know this is an archive letter, but I’d fire that client in a heartbeat.

            1. Warrior Princess Xena*

              I might not fire them, but I’d charge them twice my going rate as a PITA tax.

              If they want me using the software, ten times my going rate.

          2. MigraineMonth*

            My interpretation is that the client just wants the contractor to report which hours were worked on their project and to not work on other clients’ projects during those hours. Which would be pretty normal, if the contract were paid hourly. Since it isn’t, it’s unreasonable.

            The spyware is bananapants, though. Do not install that shit on your computer under any circumstance.

            1. londonedit*

              I’m pretty sure that one of the legal stipulations that makes a freelancer a freelancer (and not an employee) is that they can choose when, how and where to do the work they’re assigned to do. I’d be interested to know whether a company would run into legal issues if they started trying to say that a freelancer couldn’t work on other clients’ jobs during certain hours.

          3. Turquoisecow*

            And maybe you’re working on Project A and then you get a call related to project B and have to answer an urgent call or email or provide data, and then you go back to A, and then you stop and have a meeting on C.

            1. SansSerif*

              Which is how I work every day. To the point where an hour later I have to retrace my steps to remember what the original project was I was looking at.

              1. I can read anything except the room*

                haha, I always describe those days as me “leaving a trail of half-finished tasks in my wake!”

        4. Zombeyonce*

          It’s also possible for notifications to pop up that have info on other companies’ projects, and those could show up in screenshots. It’s just a bad idea all around.

          I also just don’t understand companies that use this on their employees. What a waste of a manager’s time to be checking screenshots to make sure their employees aren’t spending a moment not actively doing something instead of just tracking what does get finished.

          1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

            As a freelancer, I often charge by the hour. No way would I accept that kind of spyware even for the time I’m billing them! Because yes, email pop-ups and all sorts of interruptions like the parcel I ordered and the dog wanting to play for a bit and bathroom breaks and needed an extra cup of coffee because this job requires extra hard thinking.
            When there have been lots of interruptions and I haven’t managed to finish the task as quickly as expected, I’m not billing an extra half-hour.
            If a client intimates that not having spyware means they have to trust me on that, I’ll tell them, “yes, just like I have to trust that you are actually going to pay me once I’ve delivered”. I haven’t actually had clients wanting me to use it, but I have had clients wondering out loud how they can know whether I’m being truthful about the time needed to complete the job, and mentioning that I need to trust whether they’ll pay me has usually been sufficient. It’s only ever new clients that this might arise with, my long-time clients know they can trust me just as I know I can trust them.

      2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        Which makes it particularly daft to use for a contractor. Even if their contract was for a fixed number of hours of work per week, this wouldn’t make sense for a contractor. Sure, the contractor is indeed likely only working on a single contract at any given instant in time, but it’s not up to the client how the contractor divides up their working hours. If the client is really concerned about getting good work in the expected timeframe, then they should be specifying milestones in the contract and reviewing the work at those milestones, not nitpicking the time management of non-employees.

        (It’s also horribly invasive to for the client to use this software on their own employees’ computers too, but that doesn’t risk blurring the line between contractor and employee like this could.)

        1. r..*

          Yes, it is daft.

          If you want to have that much control over how the other side does their work, you’ll a) need to provide the hardware, and b) make them employees.

          It still might/will not be a good idea, and there’s a whole can of worms in that scenario too how much i) employee tracking is permissible under the relevant local laws, ii) how much of a legal risk the tracker exposes themselves to, and iii) whether it is a productive choice in the first place. But it is slightly less bonkers that way.

          Besides, it may very well not be up to the contractor (ie the LW) either, because it isn’t just the contractor’s sensitive data that is being threatend to be disclosed, it is *that of their other clients*. Regardless of how the software is used, the presence of that software on the system is a risk to other client’s data.

          Said clients have their own security policy, and their own legal obligations, and LW does not have a right to make those decisions for their other clients.

          Now granted a lot of my work is in a somewhat different sector that marketing, but were I to learn that one of our contractors would be inane enough to agree to this request by another client, we’d immediately sever all ties to them and hand the situation over to both compliance and legal.

          1. Freya*

            Yeah, I work with clients’ finances. Any automated screenshotting software is a massive no. Even if it weren’t potentially exposing client’s sensitive information, the sheer number of times we’d have to fill out forms notifying of potential data breaches means it’s a NO.

      3. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        Thats what I mean. If they don’t have specific days that they are working for the company then the software is going to be taking screenshots at times that could be when they are working on stuff for other companies.

    2. Daisy-dog*

      It’s trying to “catch” someone not working. So it would not apply to a job with a contractor. And really isn’t ideal for any working relationship….

      1. Flor*

        Thanks for sharing the update! Absolutely wild that they think consultants and freelancers should be installing spyware on *their own devices*.

        1. A Disappointing Australian in London*

          I’ve had multiple consulting clients insist they should be allowed to install spyware on my own devices. In some cases they have wanted total takeover software – they would have more rights on my own laptop than I would.

          When there are compelling reasons to not walk away (like rent needs to be paid) I spin up a VM and do all my work for them in that. They can install whatever spyware they want; it will only see a barebones OS that does nothing else but connect remotely to their systems, with nothing else installed.

          In fact that’s now my standard practice for every client – each client gets their own VM. That way there is no possibility of any client ever seeing anything belonging to any other, and it contains the often bloated software they require me to use to connect to their systems.

          1. Phony Genius*

            Now I wonder how much of their own time they spend looking at this, and how much they pay someone to monitor it.

          2. Hroethvitnir*

            Hi! This is possibly not a reasonable ask, but as a generally competent computer end user with little to no backend understanding I’m kind of desperate to find a way to strip the hell out of Windows as it gets worse and worse.

            Do you happen to have a recommendation for tutorials or sites for learning how to set up a VM? That sounds like it contains the skills for what I want. It doesn’t have to be free, though obviously that’s nice. No problem if not!

            /a NZer regretfully still here

          3. MigraineMonth*

            Very smart. Let the spyware report on all the suspicious activity in their little sandbox.

    4. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      My guess was that since it’s also time tracking software, the user is meant to clock in and clock out. Which still makes it a silly “tool” to use in this situation, since the contract doesn’t specify required hours.

      And the claim that the LW should never be working on other stuff concurrently with this client’s work is silly. Like, what if an urgent e-mail from another client comes in? You probably deal with that, then get back to what you were doing.

      1. Nonym*

        That would be my guess too. I agree that it’s completely inane for the reasons everyone stated and that even if the consultant was only working on one project at a time, the consultant would still get emails from other clients or resources, which could be captured and compromise proprietary or confidential info. It wouldn’t even have to be urgent emails. It could be the notification pop-up that gets captured. Besides, the consultant would have to open the email to see whether it’s urgent and in many cases, shoot a quick answer even if it’s just “good question, I’ll get back to you tomorrow” before resuming work on the project. The name of clients or resources itself can be confidential info.

        In addition, since the LW’s business is charging a set fee rather than by hour, clocking in and out itself, as well as screenshots of LW working on the project, might not be appropriate. Information like how many hours the project took, who worked on it, what methods, tools, and resources were used, etc, might be strategic info that a company isn’t willing to share.

        Not to mention it’s invasive and shows a backwards mindset that lacks understanding of the customer-service provider relationship.

  2. jm*

    Lunch lady can’t have it both ways. She’s either at work, or she’s on lunch break. The state required break also means she doesn’t get to choose 2:30 lunch.
    The client who keeps after the monitoring of his contractor should have the contract destroyed. Good day Sir!

    1. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      Does that state not require a lunch in addition to the break? In my state you get two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch (I think, I’ve been exempt for about 20 years now so I could be misremembering required versus what my particular company did back when it applied to me) with rules for how far into your shift you had to have taken each of them by, so I could see someone eating on their first 15 minute break and then spending their lunch not-eating if they wanted to eat quickly.

      1. Archi-detect*

        I don’t think many states require 15 minute breaks- I was suprised to learn this at one job because many places still opt to give them, especially those with physical or monitoring work where you need to be doing a thing basically continously (minus bathroom). Office jobs tend not to as we can take small breaks as needed

        I am in Michigan for what it is worth

        1. Nonym*

          Productivity and quality go up while mistakes and accident go down when employees take regular breaks, like the 15 mn morning and afternoon breaks above. It’s one area where employees’ and employers’ interest tend to align. A company that only thinks about profit shouldn’t eliminate breaks, even though they aren’t legally mandatory. Sadly, some still do.

      2. Kara*

        Of the only 2 states this could be, neither require any further breaks besides the 20 minute lunch. Employers can choose to give them, but they’re not mandated. Further, i checked and only one state has break laws that match your description, and -only- if you’re in retail. (Though a handful of states did have a 30 minute lunch and a 10 minute break every 4 hours!) Unless you happen to be in that state and that industry, that was company policy rather than state law.

    2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      She can’t double dip, but is there a reason she couldn’t split her lunch break? Take the mandatory 20 minutes at 1 pm, and use that time to eat, and the remaining 40 minutes later in the afternoon? I don’t know if this is possible in her specific situation, but if it is it seems like a potential solution.

      1. doreen*

        I don’t know if that’s possible but it seems to me that there is no reason she couldn’t take the whole hour at once – she’s watching videos or running errands or talking on the phone outside. It’s not like she’s doing something at 2:30 that she couldn’t do at whatever time she eats lunch.

        Especially since there is sometimes a difference between a 20 minute break vs a 30+ minute break. My state requires a 30 minute unpaid lunch after a certain number of hours worked. I’ve had jobs where we were provided with a one hour unpaid lunch – and we could not take 30 minutes for lunch and then two separate 15 minute breaks because legally, the 15 minute breaks would have to be paid and someone breaking them up like that would get an extra 30 minutes pay every day. I believe under FLSA breaks up to 20 minutes must be paid.

        1. Daisy-dog*

          I worked in customer service previously and I LOVED taking my lunch late. I’d find ways to eat earlier in my 15-minute breaks. It just made the day feel like it went by faster.

      2. Cmdrshprd*

        “She can’t double dip, ”

        I don’t know that she is double dipping, it seems she is actually working on something while eating lunch.

        I get OP says they have to be available for user requests, but does that actually mean immediately available? If employee was just working on task A (not eating lunch) and someone comes up to ask for task B, if employee said can I do that after I finish task A?

        If that would be okay, then I don’t think employee is really double dipping, in that employee is doing Task A while eating, and asking to work on Task B after their food/Task A is done.

        But if normally employee would be required to drop Task A to work on user requested Task B then I agree.

        But also I wonder how long does employee take to eat lunch, are we talking 15/20 minutes, or are they eating it in 5/10 minutes.

        I would argue if employee eats their food in 5/10 minutes then takes on task B that is not really double dipping, 5/10 minutes is a water/coffee break, or using the rest room, or getting up to stretch your legs, chat with a coworker.

        I do think taking the official lunch by the required time is a bigger deal.

        1. SusieQQ*

          > but does that actually mean immediately available?

          I think the letter was a bit unclear about it and Alison was right to specify she was going by what the letter writer said. Kind of seems like LW thinks the employee is abusing the “I don’t have to help you right this very second” culture.

          OTOH, the employee isn’t saying “I’ll help you when I’m done with this task,” she’s saying “I’ll help you when I’m done eating.” Which would definitely rub me the wrong way if someone weren’t actually on their lunch/eating break when they said that.

    3. SALC*

      It’s not unreasonable to ask to focus on something and not be interrupted immediately (if this was the time she’s catching up on administrative tasks, doing required training, reading something she needs to for her job, catching up on the notes from a meeting she missed, whatever… seems relatively reasonable that you can say I will ping you in 15 when I’m done with this). BUT if the expectation for her job is that while she’s on the clock she’s available for interruptions that’s different. In general though I would ask what work is being done during that time and if it’s reasonable to put off interruptions while doing that work, leave it be

      1. doreen*

        I think the issue with that is that she’s not saying “Give me 15 minutes to finish this” about a work task – she’s asking to get back to the co-worker when she’s done eating. If I was the LW, that would come across as “I don’t want to be disturbed while I eat lunch on the clock and also when I take my actual lunch break later on.”

      2. I can read anything except the room*

        I also wondered if the nature of these tasks involves physical documents or items, like filing or copying or mailing. If so, she might not want to accept the items until she’s cleaned up her lunch, because she’s cognizant of not wanting to accidentally leave a drink ring or get a smudge of peanut butter on work materials. That wouldn’t be much of a concern if she was just working on emails on a laptop, but if she was spreading out documents to sort or collate it could be more something to take precautions against.

    4. Nonym*

      She works a regular 8-5. If she’s paid 40 hours, then the one hour lunch break is unpaid. It’s not unreasonable for her to take a short amount of time to eat her lunch while doing computer work. In fact, I wouldn’t find it unreasonable for her to take a 15-20 mn break around noon, as her only paid break of the day or on top of a 5 mn coffee/bathroom break in the morning. Does the LW expect her to not get a single minute paid off during the entire day?

  3. justcommenting*

    Honestly, even though it’s awkward to do, that feels like a great opportunity to clarify the relationship. Being in a type of dynamic where the other person feels closer to you is always uncomfortable and often hits a bad point when that gap becomes unignorable, because there’s “no good reason” to bring it up/talk about it beforehand when it’s purely social and personal. Having a concrete reason to actually do so is probably a blessing in disguise.

    1. Stella*

      I agree! I was close friends with someone who later became my manager. I didn’t know that our relationship would need to change, but she did. Unfortunately, she didn’t say anything to me – just started treating me differently. It really confused me and hurt my feelings. It would have been so much better if she had told me that we couldn’t be besties while she was my manager. I would have understood and been fine with that. It was the sudden, unexplained change that was so hurtful.

  4. Apex Mountain*

    Does the employee with the lunch break get both the 20 minute break and the lunch hour? Or is the 20 minutes supposed to be taken as part of the lunch hour?

    It doesn’t matter for the main point of the letter but the last part of the answer mentioned not taking lunch later than 1pm so wasn’t sure

    1. Betty*

      My read was that the law is 20 minutes but the company gives an extra 40 minutes so that in total it’s an hour. However, the law also says that the 20 minutes is supposed to happen at the 5 hour mark.

      1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        From a legal standpoint, I imagine the state would be fine with the employee taking a 20 minute break at the 5-hour mark (or earlier), and another 40 minute break later. Whether or not this would work for the company’s needs is a different question – it may well work best for them to have employees on break for one longer block than two shorter ones.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I’m not so sure it’s even a break; she’s apparently working on stuff while eating, but the issue is that she’s not as available as she is at other times of day.

    3. MCMonkeyBean*

      It sounds like the hour for lunch is meant to be instead of the 20 minutes, and that the employee is just opting to take it later. If so I agree this needs to be two conversations with possibly one solution: 1) you need to be available when not on break and 2) you need to take your legally mandated break after 5 hours.

      I think a potential compromise here would be for the employee to take the legally mandated 20 minutes sometime between 12 and 1 to eat and then can take 40 more minutes later in the day. That may not be long enough for some errands, but you can at least get a decent walk in if she often just spends it outside.

      1. English Teacher*

        Exactly what I would suggest! That seems to solve all the issues, and I might also recommend she steps away from her desk for the 20 minutes so people don’t come up thinking she’s available.

  5. Pizza Rat*

    I worked on the vendor side for several years. My company would never agree to this. Neither would our IT department.

    Clients can be unreasonably demanding sometimes. I once had to finish a call because I had another meeting and the client asked, “Who is the client you’re meeting with?” I told him that was inappropriate.

    1. Sneaky Squirrel*

      My company would also shut this down immediately. This client doesn’t have a right to the contents of another company’s computers and their response is absurd. Even if LW was truly only working on that client’s work the whole time they were using that software (which may be unrealistic), there is no guarantee of data security. All it would take, for example, is one awkwardly timed email from another client to pop up on LW’s desktop and now they’ve given away possibly multiple private data points including another client’s name, contact information, and possibly sensitive information about another client’s project.

    2. Brain the Brian*

      Clients are often insane. We had one high-profile client on a cost-reimbursable job insist that we pay our employees at the rate they would pay their own employees, but only on their contract (e.g. we could use our regular salary scale for everything else, but we would have to pay the hours that employees worked on this client’s job at a rate that matched *their* salary scale). A completely bonkers overreach, nevermind that the indirect load on the hours would make it more expensive for them than just doing the job in-house. We declined to pursue future work with them.

  6. SB*

    Ha, questions like the first one make me paranoid that my work-friends are merely tolerating me.

    I think the re-set conversation is a great idea though. It doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings and get’s them both on the same page

  7. Mid*

    I wonder why the client in letter 3 was so pushy about that monitoring software. Are they getting some sort of kickback for selling data from it? Because that’s the only reason I can come up with for them to keep bringing it up, over and over, after being clearly told it’s not going to happen, and it making no business sense to have it installed, since the product isn’t being billed per hour (and even if it was, contractors aren’t employees and it’s a massive overreach.)

    1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I wonder if they’ve only ever dealt with things like temp contracts before, where the client has a contract with an agency, and an agency employee is assigned to do work for the client. This is not independent contracting, and the employee in this case does get a W2 (from the agency, not the client), so the client generally has more control around things like working hours. But that’s the only scenario I can think of where the client might mistakenly think this is reasonable for an independent contractor. (Aside from the part where it’s a horrible way to monitor productivity in any circumstance.)

    2. dulcinea47*

      My first thought is sheer lack of understanding of how it works, and rigidity about wanting to monitor employees at all times. There’s a TON of ignorance when it comes to internet security, I wouldn’t put it past someone to simply not get that it’s not applicable and a privacy violation.

    3. Hroethvitnir*

      Oh, I am 99.99% sure any company that uses that software at all, let alone with contractors, has reasoning devoid of logic.

      An alarming amount of people view hiring labour very combatatively and literally cannot imagine how to generate good with without being unnecessarily controlling. General distrust and entitlement as drivers are not uncommon.

      See also: jobs that work at least as well remote but managers hate it. (I’m not even a huge fan of full remote myself and think the IRL facetime aspect is under-appreciated by many, but it remains the case that a lot of anti-WFH is just bad management and bad attitudes )

  8. NotARealManager*

    Re: Screen grabbing

    I wouldn’t work as an employee or a consultant for a business that employed this technology. If the work you need is getting done, it’s such a massive overreach of monitoring! Not to mention a huge cybersecurity risk.

    1. VerilyAndAnon*

      My most recent position used software precisely like this (the one that’s doctoring of the time variety, let’s just say; it took screenshots of the desktop and it would time out and assume you were ‘on break’ if you didn’t move the mouse or click a button in 5 minutes – because, apparently, according to the software, ‘moving the mouse or clicking anywhere on the screen counts as working’. But if someone had to step away from their desk to do some filing or the like, or engaged in any other work tasks? It would pause the timer, assuming they were ‘on break’ – which, of course, they weren’t.

      And it would completely mess with the amount of time shown for how much an employee actually worked in a day. HR knew about it and didn’t care in the slightest (they claimed that the software was mainly meant just to ‘log when you took your lunch break’, but I think we can safely call total BS on that one.

      This was my first experience ever with any such monitoring software, and it was frankly horrendous. It made me feel horribly micromanaged and I was miserable. All I can say to people is: if you’re starting a new position and they spring it on you that they use monitoring software like this: RUN. It’s symptomatic of a horrible, toxic workplace, and you will suffer for it.

      (and I also didn’t discover they used this software until I’d signed the contract and had started my first day, so, you can well imagine that I was further nonplussed by it)

      1. Lacey*

        That sounds like a nightmare. Plenty of work doesn’t involve moving the mouse or typing on your computer – even when it’s a job where that’s still the majority of work.

        1. VerilyAndAnon*

          It really was; I felt like I spent more time worrying about whether the software was going to time out on me/assume that I was on break, and thus, randomly clicking or moving the mouse, than I did doing almost anything else. I’d literally be in the midst of filing elsewhere and have to run back to check that it hadn’t timed me out because I was so worried about it. I’ve suffered under the yoke of toxic bosses and micromanaging to a panic-attack-inducing degree for the past few years, and I am at breaking point now – but the use of this software was a new and very unpleasant experience for me.

          1. Spiritbrand*

            This sounds like a job for those little machines that look like birds that can peck your mouse button while you’re gone. And according to your HR, apparently this bird would be working harder than everyone else at your company that has to step away from their desks.

        2. Peanut Hamper*

          I review scientific data. I can literally spend 30 minutes looking at a single screen. This software is designed by people/for people who don’t really understand how some jobs work.

  9. SusieQQ*

    Managing former friends is hard. I am managing one now and I have felt a little bad that I think she probably has to go a little bit further to prove herself as my report. She’s absolutely amazing in every way, but I was worried people would think I was saying that because we have a history (it’s no secret that we used to work together and were friends) instead of because it’s true. So I’ve not advocated as hard for her as I might have other people, in order to let people see for themselves that she’s amazing. Which has happened, it just took a bit longer than if I had been able to sing her praises from an objective viewpoint.

  10. Emily (not a bot)*

    By all means clarify the relationship, but you should also say “you’re great at what you do and I think you’ll be an asset to the team.” Because it seems like she’s really enthusiastic about you, but you’re also enthusiastic about her — in a lower-key way — and that’s important and also makes this easier.

  11. Bloopbloop*

    Can the lunch break be split? If she really likes having that time later in the day for youtube or whatever, maybe ask her to take a 30 for lunch before 1 and another 30 later for recreation?

    1. Statler von Waldorf*

      In general, it probably depends on the wording of your local labor laws.

      For example, the company I work for right now has workers in two provinces, BC and Alberta. In Alberta the 30 minute break can be split into two 15 minute breaks if everyone agrees to it. In BC it cannot, as the break must be at least 30 minutes.

      For this specific letter, they probably can. Part of the break is legislated, and part is not. The rules around the non-legislated break are almost certainly entirely at the companies discretion.

  13. Ann O'Nemity*

    At least the coworker in #1 is being positive and cheerful about this instead of simmering with resentment for not being chosen. I agree that the LW needs to talk about the relationship changing, but I would also recommend taking care not to demoralize the coworker in the process.

  14. Lacey*

    The last one is kinda ironic given Microsoft’s plans to screenshot everyone’s computer screens every few seconds.

    1. Hroethvitnir*

      :'( My current computer can’t handle Windows 11 so I’m kicking the can down the road, but I’m beginning to think I need to surrender to learning Linux.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        I’ve used Linux for years. One doesn’t surrender to Linux. One enters a brave new world that has such people in it.

        You will love Linux. Welcome aboard, when you get here.

        I may do a Linux AMA on Saturday, since this comes up from time to time.

    2. Warrior Princess Xena*

      Wait, really?

      :(

      I’m very tired of having all my digitized spaces be invaded by monitoring.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        I went looking after reading Lacey’s comment and the new program is called Microsoft Recall (I don’t think it has launched yet). If you search “Microsoft Recall disable” you should be able to find steps to turn it off on your computer.

  15. Red_Coat*

    I wonder if in letter 1, the coworker is just overselling the “I’m fine I didn’t get the job, no really, I promise!” more than she actually thinks that she and OP are friends. I know that seems like something I would do.

    1. Distractable Golem*

      Came here to say this same thing. To show that I’m not bitter, am a team player, etc, but just overdoing it til it’s awkward.

      1. Nonym*

        Who was your answer meant for? If me, since I’m the one who mentioned the unpaid hour, yes, I’m not forgetting that.

        I’m saying that it’s very usual and reasonable for full-time employees to take 10-15 mn paid coffee/bathroom break in the morning and in the afternoon, on top of whatever unpaid lunch break they have. If she were to take a 20 mn break at lunch and then her unpaid hour at 2:30 pm, it would be in the same ballpark.

        It’s normal to take short paid breaks here and there during the work day, moreso than expecting an employee to work literally nonstop from 8 to 12 am and then from 1 to 5 pm, without getting a single paid minute off during the day.

        1. Thinking*

          When I worked in Pennsylvania, the law was a 30 minute break after no more than 5 hours. So the employee here could only take lunch at 2:30 if they started at 9:30 or later. But lunch that late would bump into people’s afternoon ten minute break. Some of us can’t wait an extra hour to pee just because coworker wants us to.

          1. Nonym*

            For the first part, yes, I understand that. It doesn’t seem to relate to what I’ve said since what I outlined would meet the legal requirement of a 20 mn break after 5 hours.

            I have no clue what you mean by the second part. The fact that the employee is taking a late ‘lunch break’ doesn’t prevent anyone else from going to the bathroom whenever they need. She is not asking anyone to hold their pee for an extra hour. Her taking a late ‘lunch break’ is a situation that has been going on for a long time without issue as per LW; the LW concern was over a potential double unavailability for certain work tasks.

  17. Delta Delta*

    I once worked with a woman who took her breaks and lunch together as one giant break so she could go running during the break. She routinely ate her food at her desk and generally was available to do whatever was needed while eating.

    But that’s not the point of this tale.

    Friends, she did not know that condensed soup was condensed and would normally be mixed with water and heated. She had taken to eating (and I am not kidding) room temperature, full-concentrate canned chicken noodle soup directly out of the can. She routinely did this and said she didn’t understand why people like soup so much because to her it seemed terrible.

  18. Morning Reading*

    On the break question, I wonder if LW’s employer is misinterpreting the requirement for a 20 minute break. With a previous employer, we were required to give a break but it was a paid break. The unpaid lunch break was completely separate and could not be combined with the paid “coffee” break.
    If that’s the case here, they should not be requiring the employee to work during her paid break, whether she’s eating or not. She could eat at or before 1, on her break, and still take the full lunch hour later.
    It could be that no paid breaks are legally required. Even so, the employer is terrible if they don’t offer them. I’ve worked in 4 states, different jobs, over 40 years, and I’ve never seen a job that did not have paid breaks, usually 15 minutes, morning and afternoon, in a full time job.
    So yes, LW, you’re a Scrooge. But it’s not your fault, sounds like the whole company, even the whole state, is set up that way.

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