interviewer mocked my speech impediment, telling coworkers I’m having a baby unconventionally, and more

by Alison Green on July 26, 2024

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. My interviewer mocked my speech impediment

I recently had a job interview that was extremely unpleasant. I won’t go into the details, but suffice it to say, there were so many red flags that the conference room was practically shrouded in a crimson miasma. I’m writing to share what was, to me, the most egregious moment. When I introduced myself to the hiring manager, she promptly blurted out: “Where are you from, Rhode Island? (imitating (me?)) Look at Missusth Daffy Ducky speakth through her teef.”

I’ve never been to Rhode Island, for the record. I don’t sound remotely like I’m from Rhode Island. I have no idea how Rhode Island plays into all this. Was she conflating “Looney Tunes” with “Family Guy?” The mind boggles. Anyway…

My speech is pretty unusual and distinctive. I had a severe speech impediment when I was a kid. Speech therapy tamed the worst of it, but I still have a mild lisp and probably will for the rest of my life. It is definitely noticeable, but nothing that prevents me from speaking clearly and coherently. I’ve actually done very well in roles that required a lot of public speaking, possibly because I’m so used to putting in conscious effort to enunciate clearly and carefully! I certainly don’t sound like Daffy Duck.

Complicating things further, I had a very transient upbringing — I grew up not only in numerous states but also in several foreign countries (think military). As a result, I have a bizarre patchwork accent that people can’t place easily.

So, yeah, I sound weird. I KNOW I sound weird. It’s my biggest insecurity. Not coincidentally, I’ve always felt most comfortable in diverse, multinational workplaces where there are all kinds of accents and English-speaking abilities. About half of my coworkers at my last workplace were immigrants, mostly from India and China. So nobody cared that I had an accent, or that I sometimes struggled with pronouncing English words perfectly — I was in good company!

Obviously, I have no intention in pursuing this position further. But should I report this interaction to the company? If it was just me, I would shrug it off. But I know it can’t just be me! For one, I can’t imagine this hiring manager treats immigrants or even American-born POC decently, let alone fairly. If that’s how she treats people who don’t have a generic, bog-standard Midwestern accent, I wonder now if she would have even interviewed me if it weren’t for my white-sounding name. Moreover, I feel like singling out my speech impediment with that ugly little Daffy Duck impersonation must be an ADA violation of some kind … right? I sure don’t feel like I was treated fairly.

Could you clarify this for me? Typing it all out, the answer feels like an obvious “yes, report it” to me. But I there’s a very loud and mean part of me saying “shit happens, so get over it, ya weird lisping-hybrid-mutant-accent-having freak.”

Yes, please report it; this is awful. Not only was she cavalierly cruel for no reason, but it (a) raises a ton of questions about how she treats candidates who are different in other ways too, as you point out and (b) opens the company to legal liability under the Americans with Disabilities Act (because if you wanted to argue that she didn’t hire you because of your speech impediment, she handed you a lot of ammunition). She’s also apparently profoundly ignorant about how to treat people, which is a problem in anyone but particularly a problem in a manager, interviewer, and person representing the company.

You could frame it as, “I want to share with you why I’m withdrawing from this hiring process and hope this is not how you want your interviewers treating people with disabilities.”

2. I’m having a baby unconventionally — how do I talk about it at work?

I’m coming up at the point of wanting children, some time in the next 2/3 years. However, I do not have a partner and don’t anticipate getting one in that time frame. I have prepared to go it alone and have made financial and housing plans accordingly. My intention is to have a baby using a sperm donor, through the clinic that I choose, so I won’t know them. In addition, I do not plan to use my own eggs. There are many very generous couples who donate eggs or even embryos so that other people can have children, too.

I have chosen this for a specific reason: I am neurodivergent — specifically, autism and ADHD. The genes in my family for these are strong and in hindsight many members of my immediate family could very well have been diagnosed had it been accessible to them. The blunt truth is, I do not want to pass this onto my child. I know it is partly selfish — I was a difficult child, despite being academically gifted — and partly because it would not be fair to have a child knowing that they are likely to continue our family tree with all the difficult “quirks” we possess. I am an adult who has learned to live with these conditions — I have a job, I am successful in it, etc. so I am not incapable — but I want to break this genetic legacy.

How do I explain to the people I work with that a) this child will not be genetically mine and b) I don’t want to have a child of my own? It will not be likely that I can conceal the first part — as embryos are donated, the child may not match my ethnicity and appearance. And I don’t want to spend time justifying why I chose this. Oh, and c) how do I explain to people that yes, autistic people want to be parents, and they may do it unconventionally but it doesn’t make them less of a parent or mean their child is worse off?

My workplace is generally positive and diverse — I work in a department that attracts the neurodivergence like flies to honey — but people don’t always think before they speak, and there is a lot of criticism for parents who are not … typical in the media which I worry could impact their perspective of me. I’m not sure how to address this with both my managers (during my IVF journey and afterwards) and with my colleagues in a way that is positive but also firm in my decision?

You actually don’t need to share most of that! Not because there’s anything shameful about any of it, but because it’s no one’s business, especially at work. You are simply having a child (and then later, you simply have a child). No one is entitled to know whether your child’s origins were through IVF or sex, or whether you used your own eggs or not, or where the donor sperm came from, or any of it!

You’re simply excited to share that you are having a child. That’s it! If anyone asks about the father, you can say, “I’ll be raising the baby on my own.” Colleagues don’t need to know whether that means IVF, or a relationship that didn’t last, or a father who chose not to be involved. (Obviously if there are specific people who you’re close to who you choose to share details with, that’s different — and you can let your comfort level and the relationship be your guide there.)

If anyone is rude enough to comment on your child not looking like you, you’re under no obligation to answer their questions … and you’d probably find it helpful to delve into the writing of parents from mixed race and adoptive families about how they choose to field intrusive questions about their kids.

3. I’m a remote manager and nervous about a private meeting on my staff members’ calendars

I am a remote manager and my staff is on-site. I am six months into this position and this is the first time using this model.

I have been in my profession for 20 years, but this current job is very different than what I was doing previously so there is a lot to learn. I am not aware of any issues, but today I noticed my only two staff members had a private appointment scheduled at the same time. My boss’s calendar (also on-site) was also busy during that time but I can’t see it so I don’t know exactly what it said.

Of course, in my mind it was them meeting with him and I’m stressed about it. Do I try and get it out of my head and let it go, or what should I do? I don’t want to ask my staff what the appointment was, so I don’t know that there is anything I can do.

There are lots of reasons their calendars could have been blocked off at the same time that don’t portend anything bad for you — anything from collaborating on a mundane project together, to planning a surprise party for the guy in accounting, to simple coincidence that means nothing at all. Your boss also might do a routine check-in with your staff about how things are going, which is a smart thing for bosses to do from time to time, especially when there’s a new manager in the mix  (but even when there’s not).

But to indulge your worry a bit: What’s your sense of how things have been going? How do you think your team members think things have been going? And then … what are you basing that on? If you don’t really know how they think things are going, you could take this as impetus to check in with them more often, talk about what they need and how you can support them, and ensure that you’re cultivating an environment where they can be reasonably candid with you. On the other hand, if you feel you have a good sense of their perspectives and are fairly confident they don’t see significant problems, it makes sense to relax about what the calendar entries,, figure it’s unlikely to be a problem for you (and if is, you’ll presumably know soon enough), and trust that there are a ton of other things that could account for it.

Related:
my boss called a mysterious meeting with me and I’m afraid I’m going to be fired

4. We’re reimbursed less than the federal mileage rate

I work at a nonprofit. We are currently getting $.58 per mile reimbursed. I am one of a handful of employees that travels frequently to other sites to work. I would say I reimburse about 1,200 miles per year.

I recently brought up to our GM that we’re not getting the federal rate ($.67). He said it was probably just outdated, and we would look at aligning with the federal rate. However, our ED says that we’re a nonprofit so we can offer whatever we want for reimbursement. What say you? I know it’s not illegal, but how would the staff counter this?

Your ED is right that they can offer whatever mileage reimbursement rate they want, but it’s not because they’re a nonprofit. Private employers aren’t required to reimburse mileage at all (except in California, Illinois, and Massachusetts) so if they choose to, they can set the mileage rate at whatever they want.

That said, you and your coworkers could point out that the federal mileage rate is calculated to represent your actual costs (not only gas, but the wear and tear to your vehicle) and argue that employees shouldn’t be out money simply for performing their work duties.

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{ 577 comments }

{ 577 comments… read them below }

  1. The Dude Abides*

    Re: #4, what sucks is that thanks to the 2017 tax cuts, affected employees can’t claim the difference as an itemized deduction.

    1. Another Use of the Identify Spell*

      I was never aware of that! Sigh. My very for-profit employer gives us less than LW.

      1. Betty*

        That’s terrible. And so unfair – you’re literally earning less than your salary says you are because of this company expense that you have to pay.

    2. Cj*

      a person in this situation probably wouldnt have been able to get any tax benefit from it anyway for several reasons.

      it was only deductible if you itemized, and only the amount that exceeded 2% of your adjusted gross income. and in this case they were reimbursed most of the standard mileage rate, so they only would have had nine cents per mile to use to calculate the amount not reimbursed, even if they had other itemized expenses and employee business expenses that took them over the other requirements.

      very, very few people were ever able to deduct employee business expenses even before the law change. pretty much only if you were in an employee in certain industries, and they weren’t nonprofits.

      1. Retired Accountant*

        Yeah, my for-profit employer always told us we could deduct the difference between the IRS rate and their much lower rate but no one was ever able to. It caused a lot of resentment for the money it saved (as did not reimbursing lunch when out of town).

      2. doreen*

        Yes, my husband technically wasn’t reimbursed – he is an outside salesman and received a set payment for travel , mileage didn’t matter so it was considered income. So we deducted the mileage on the tax return – and even thought we could deduct the full IRS rate it was just barely worthwhile to bother.

    3. Sloanicota*

      I was very surprised by this answer. Private companies aren’t required to reimburse mileage?? So they can require their employees to travel off-site for work tasks and simply make them eat that cost? Even a technician whose whole job is traveling around from site to site? I thought that was one of the differences between 1099 and W2 employment, to be honest.

      1. Great Frogs of Literature*

        IANAL, but I think (in the US, anyway), they can just stipulate it as a condition of the job, and that’s that. They can require you to use your own car, too.

        1. Susannah*

          So what happens when they want you to take a trip at your own expense and you say, “I can’t afford it?”

          1. Zee*

            There’s a solid chance they would say “too bad, it’s part of your job so do it or you’re fired.”

          2. Starbuck*

            In this country we believe in freedom and rights! Which in this scenario basically means your employer is free to ask you to do whatever travel they’re in the mood for, and you have the right to quit if you don’t like it. It sure is a system!! :)

            1. ThatOtherClare*

              Ahhh the good ol’ freedom to be exploited, the best kind of freedom! [/sarcasm]

              Whenever there is a power imbalance, freedom and safety are incompatible – because society becomes reliant on the goodwill of the powerful not to exploit their freedom. It’s a nuanced problem, but I think I can correctly say that we haven’t found a good solution yet. Our current system isn’t it, that’s for certain.

      2. Person from the Resume*

        They can require it, but employees can choose to take the job based on the information if they provide a company vehicle or expect the employee to use their own vehicle and reimburse mileage or not.

        For a technician who’s whole job to travelling around this is very important info to have at the offer stage. For an office worker who might be asked to pick up some things from the store every few months, it’s likely not a deal-breaker (as long as they drive to work). Alison has answered questions on what to do if this is not the case. I think a recent one was that just order the catered lunch as delivery; the admin did not need to go pick it up herself.

      3. Spero*

        They are SUPPOSED to pay for the employee time travelling between sites for W2 employees, and theoretically they could offer a high enough hourly rate that would cover the cost without separate reimbursement. Ex I had an ex who negotiated this – he hated tracking and invoicing for his mileage, so he just asked for a higher rate and company car, and he viewed that as covering what he ‘lost’ by not doing mileage.
        I also had a workplace that had a rule if you went somewhere first thing in the morning instead of going to the office first/on your way home at the end of the day without going back to office, you had to subtract the distance from your house to the workplace from your reimbursement amount because you ‘saved’ your typical commute time costs.

        1. Cj*

          they are absolutely required to pay the employee for travel time, but don’t have to reimburse their mileage.

      1. Reluctant Mezzo*

        Though they should itemize in Oregon–it doesn’t help on the federal unless it’s huge, but it *always* helps for state tax (yes, it’s capped, but at a much higher amount than the pitiful standard deduction Oregon has).

    5. Construction Safety*

      My, for-profit, employer pays about $0.45/mile. I asked and was huffily told that it’s an allowance, and we can pay anything we want and besides, they can take the difference off their taxes (uh, no not as easily now).

      This is the company that doesn’t pay hourly workers to go from one job to the next.

        1. B*

          They are. This is a slam dunk FLSA violation. It should be reported to the US DOL (and maybe state regulators).

            1. Carl*

              Yes. I would love to hear the details here. Bc it sounds like not paying the receptionist for time between calls. (You know. Illogical and illegal).

    6. MarieMac*

      If your position is grant-funded by state or federal dollars, it’s likely a requirement of the grant contract that you are reimbursed at the federal rate. If your general workplace is funded by state or federal grants or contracts, it would be good practice for your org to reimburse at that rate even if not all positions are specifically government funded.

      1. Seamyst*

        Yes, and also, consistency in how similar costs are treated on Federal and non-Federal funds is strongly emphasized.

    7. The Bigger the Hair…the closer to god*

      For the love of all that’s mighty…please retire the phrase “What say you?” Please don’t give Bill OReilly any further consideration.

      1. Zelda*

        ??? I use this phrase a lot, and believe me it has nothing to do with any Bill O’Reilly. This is the first I’ve heard of it being associated with him, and it’s a lot older than he is. He certainly didn’t originate it or popularize it.

      5. Me1980*

        Might I suggest that you evict him from your mind? I pretend he never existed and am much happier!

      6. RabbitRabbit*

        The Oxford English Dictionary found citations back to 1810 at least. It’s also highly related to “how say you” which goes back at least to the 1600s.

  2. nnn*

    Data point for #3: I often put private meetings on my calendar not because of actual meetings, but instead to block time for and/or trigger flags for completely non-work-related things. For example, I have a dentist appointment, so I put it on my work calendar so no one books a meeting during that time, and also so I get pop-ups on my work computer telling me that a dentist appointment is imminent.

    1. learnedthehardway*

      Agreed – I block of my calendar for when I definitely DO NOT want meetings, so that I can get work done at those times.

      I wouldn’t read anything into it. Could be that everyone in the office has that time blocked off for a coworker’s baby shower. Or literally anything else.

      1. SarahKay*

        That’s what I was thinking. Site lunch, site farewell to longstanding staff member, etc etc.

    2. Gila Monster*

      Yes, I block off telehealth appointments, calls with my kids’ school/camp/doctors/etc, really anything personal. I take sick hours and such as appropriate, but it’s not my colleagues’ business to know details.

    3. ferrina*

      I’ll also occasionally block off lunch if I want a protected hour to eat. If it’s around lunch, they may have had the same thought (or the coworkers are having lunch together and boss has a call, or some combination)

      1. Tio*

        Them having lunch together was one of my first thoughts honestly. But I also block out focus time for projects like Alison said.

    4. Learn ALL the things?*

      I have a private meeting set up at the same time that my work day ends, purely to get an alert at a quarter till to remind me to start wrapping things up.

    5. ErinWV*

      I block off time on my calendar frequently for actual work things that aren’t meetings. Like reminders for things I am supposed to do weekly. Or if there’s a task I absolutely hate doing, I will block off like an hour that is “You must work on Sucky Project NOW.” I set these reminders to private because other people don’t need to know how my mind works.

    6. Bob Lob Law*

      LW specifically said this meeting was marked “private”, which I interpreted to mean their Outlook is configured to typically show meeting details but they used the “private” flag to restrict visibility. Since multiple people have this private meeting, it’s not likely personal.

      1. Hannah*

        Or it is personal and two people just happened to have doctor’s appointment at the same time. If that’s a lull time at the office, it makes sense to have multiple people taking advantage of it.

      2. Rooby*

        We have our calendars set to viewable but I put all my entries and reminders as private unless it’s a project meeting or something.

    7. Deborah Vance, Vance Refrigeration*

      My coworker blocks chunks of time and privately calls them “Focus Time”, so she won’t get interrupted while she is concentrated in a task.

    8. No More Meetings*

      So do I, most frequently for appointments, but also because I want to block some time for individual work (reading, reviewing bibliography, etc). And this month I had an online training from 6.30 to 10.30 pm – you can bet I blocked off my mornings to keep my sanity.

    9. anonymparent*

      yeah, I block time for ME. This afternoon I have a private meeting so I can go see my daughter’s performance in a play. Everyone knows what it is because I’ve been excited about it all week, but it just shows as a private appointment because it’s nothing to do with work and it’s not with anybody else.

    10. Goldenrod*

      Me too! Since I am hardly ever invited to meetings, I use my calendar for all kinds of things, such as deadlines and reminders to myself.

      It hardly ever means I’m actually unavailable….

  3. Ellis Hubris*

    #1 my dad had a stutter. It was severe. He figured it out. it comes out when he’s stressed or otherwise. absolutely report that POS of a human. hopefully some training or recognition that some people work very hard to look “normal”. thank you President Biden for all your good work and fighting a stutter.

    I’m so angry over this and hopeful the poster sees that not everyone is this stupid

    1. Zelda*

      That opening line from the hiring manager is a “Manager. Now.” moment. Snatching your resume out of her hand, turning on your heel, and walking out would also have been justified, if LW wanted to go that way, and I’d hope the resume left a paper cut. Absolutely unconscionable behavior.

      1. ursula*

        Yeah. To be clear, LW shouldn’t blame themselves for not having this reaction in the moment! I doubt most people would have the immediate clarity and confidence to do this. But it certainly is bad enough that this response would have been justified.

      2. CommanderBanana*

        Absolutely. I also grew up with a speech impediment. After a year or two of speech therapy I no longer have it (except when I’m very, very tired).

        I don’t think I would have had the confidence to do this early in my career, before I had a better sense of what’s acceptable and what isn’t, but if this happened to me today, I would have asked the person to repeat themselves, then cut short the interview and immediately contacted their HR department. And posted about it on Glassdoor.

      3. Tio*

        When I saw what she said my jaw hit the floor

        A regular PERSON shouldn’t say something like that to someone else, let alone a HIRING MANAGER. Like what???

        1. Paralegally Blonde*

          It’s the kind of thing that would have gotten you a stay after school in the third grade. Utterly unconscionable in a grown adult.

          1. I Super Believe In You, Tad Cooper*

            And even more so in a grown adult *who is speaking to someone she has never met before.* That says terrible things about how she treats people she perceives as having no power over her.

            1. Goldenrod*

              “That says terrible things about how she treats people she perceives as having no power over her.”

              Yes, this.

          2. ASGirl*

            Growing up in the 80s with a speech impediment, I was teased/bullied by both teachers and students, no one was ever punished for being mean to me. 5 years of speech therapy got rid of it for me thankfully.

            2. Overnight Oats*

              Yes, this kind of behavior was normal when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. I was a target and, I am ashamed to say, also a perpetrator. I look back and wonder why so many of us just accepted that it was normal and appropriate to mock other people. I look around and wonder why some people now think that expecting them to treat people decently is “being a snowflake”. I’d like my 80s body back but I don’t miss my 80s mind.

              1. Reluctant Mezzo*

                Napoleon was mocked for his Corsican accent while at the French military academy. How did that work out?

    2. Artemesia*

      This should be done calmly and very specifically and clearly — full quotes. This is sooo awful and of course has wide ranging impact. Anyone who would say what this person did is doing it to lots of people.

    3. Barm Brack*

      I have a stutter and I remember every single time a random person has imitated my speech and mocked me. Absolutely report this interviewer. It’s so painful.

      1. Ellis Hubris*

        Thank you for doing the work. I’ve watched my dad struggle and it’s difficult. To ever have this mocked is so low. It needs to be considered as unconscionable as mocking race or gender

        1. Texan in exile on her phone*

          Same and it would break my heart. My father spent his whole life thinking he wasn’t smart because of his stutter. He was old enough that speech therapy wasn’t a thing.

          (He was smart and interesting and a loving father.)

      2. Tau*

        At some point I rehearsed an ice cold “well, *I* learned not to make fun of someone’s disability in kindergarten, but I guess we all have our challenges” comeback to use if anyone dared mock my stutter to my face.

        The odd thing is that I haven’t needed it since? I sometimes feel like I now emanate an aura of “Try me. Just… *try me*” to ableists and they stay clear as a result. Closest was the one dude who asked me if I’d forgotten my name and dissolved into horrified apologies when I told him that no, I have a speech disorder? Still not sure what he was expecting to happen tbh. You think I talk like this for fun?

      3. KYgirl*

        I have one too, and same re: remembering times when I was made fun of. I wish every time I would have said, “you know you’re making fun of someone with a disability, right? What if I were in a wheelchair, would you have made fun of me then?”

        1. Jess*

          When I was in grade 2 back in the 70s, my classmate’s older brother in grade 3 was in a motorized wheelchair from a congenital disorder. He was nice and kind I considered him my friend and invited them both to my Halloween party. After that, a group of mean girls told the girl in my class I mocked him to them behind his back. She told her brother and they both froze me out. She wouldn’t believe I didn’t do it.

          He died young, never knowing what his friendship meant to a weird introvert book nerd.

          People think the internet has made kids more cruel. When you lived with bullying, you know it just gave them a platform.

          1. The Rise and Fall of Sanctuary Moon*

            Oof, what a painful memory. I’m so sorry that happened to you and your friend and her brother.

        2. Willem Dafriend*

          The worst part is they probably would. I’ve definitely had people make fun of me when I’m out in public using my cane or chair. Same about remembering every time it’s happened, sending supportive thoughts/virtual hugs if wanted/solidarity to everyone on thread and OP.

      4. Mad Mac*

        I’m a lifelong person who stutters, too. Most people don’t comment on it (unless I bring it up because disclosure has become one of my favorite methods of sidestepping the awkwardness that unexpected disfluency can create), but my former industry reduced me to tears a couple times when rude assholes made rude-asshole comments about it.

        Report this person, LW 1. Please. You deserve respect and kindness, and anyone who treats you so cruelly has no business dealing with people. My heart breaks for you, and everyone who’s ever been reduced to their speech impediment. This is why I wish verbal diversity was a more popular topic. It is so important to understand that people who speak differently aren’t less than.

        1. disrights*

          Yes, report them, LW1. They were cruel and didn’t even blink at themselves.

          And Mad Mac I completely agree with you! I wish verbal diversity was out there. There’s more books now than when I was a kid. “I Talk Like a River” is good and beautifully illustrated and there’s an audiobook version read by the author. It made me cry the first time I listened. And my kid loves it. I also wish more kid books had disability as a feature and not the main topic.

          I had a professor make fun of my stutter in law school. Another student called him out and he apologized; I think he really did feel bad. Practicing was better than law school because people get to know you, and know what to expect. And once I became a disability rights lawyer, nobody (professionally) dares say anything and suddenly has all the patience in the world. If only it were like that for everyone!

      5. Rainy*

        I had a lisp that I did quite a bit of speech therapy for when I started public school. I got made fun of a lot, especially because speech therapy wasn’t ever going to fix it completely–that required orthodontia, which my parents were not interested in paying for. I finally had braces in my 30s and I barely have a lisp now. But yes, I remember being mocked for it as well.

        When I was in grad school and teaching, one semester one of my students had a pretty severe stutter, and he had to nerve himself up to make a comment or ask a question, every time, but of course the first couple of times he spoke up were the worst for him because of the nerves. I wouldn’t let anyone interrupt or finish his sentences or be mean to him in any way at all. One of his classmates started to open his mouth to make some kind of shitty comment–the look on the kid’s face was unmistakeable, I’m afraid–and I shot the little twerp SUCH a look. His mouth snapped closed and I gave him The Eyebrow and I didn’t hear another peep out of him when his classmate was talking, possibly also due to the quiet “Mr Name, you’ll want to hang back a moment” that he got as class was ending. I barely had to say anything to dress him down; he knew what he’d done.

        Honestly, encouraging my student to feel more comfortable contributing to discussions and answering questions when he wanted to and showing his classmates what we don’t do in university when someone else is speaking felt really satisfying, as someone who also had a speech impediment. I hope both of those kids went on to do great things, and that one of them learned a valuable lesson about treating others with respect.

    4. learnedthehardway*

      Agreed – DEFINITELY bring this to the attention of the company. And bypass the interviewer to do it – either bring it to HR (if it was a hiring manager) or to the VP HR (if it was a recruitment person).

      1. duinath*

        And if the hiring manager reaches out to you afterwards with anything even slightly off, go ahead and forward that as well. No need to respond.

    5. CityMouse*

      I have a sibling with a speech impediment and I’m absolutely horrified on OP’s behalf. Frankly though, everyone should know that’s horrifically bad behavior even without knowing someone who has speech issues. That hiring manager should be fired.

      1. Ready for the weekend*

        Yes! OP, please report it. No decent company would want to a manager like that on staff.

      2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        Agreed. Besides all the reasons pointed out, it shows spectacularly poor judgment that the interviewer felt that was acceptable to say out loud. I mean good that she did so that OP knew exactly what she was dealing with. But honestly, people, you can keep your private thoughts private.

        P.S. OP you are not some weird lisping hybrid mutant accent having freak. You are just fine the way you are and deserve to be treated with respect.

    6. Ms. Eleanous*

      I consider this worthy of getting the CEO’s contact information, and sending a hard copy letter. Let the CEO delegate it to the appropriate department.
      Include the date it happened on your letter.

      1. HonorBox*

        I’d say CEO, HR, all upper management, board of directors if applicable. This is a huge problem now and an even bigger problem when (not if) someone actually files some sort of formal complaint against the company.

        1. The Bigger the Hair…the closer to god*

          Right?! The interviewer was representing the company. Not a good look here. Run it up every flag pole, post on Glassdoor and Yelp. This behavior needs to be outed.

    8. what was my username??*

      I really hate that the attacks on Biden would often include his stutter. It really emboldened a lot of people to feel like they can attack people for speaking differently than they do, and sends a horrible message to people with speech impediments that they aren’t valued unless they speak perfectly.

      1. Jedi Panoramix*

        As a non-American fascinated by US politics, I found this very appalling. Constantly complaining about someone stuttering creates a self-fulfilling prophecy: the more you focus on it, the more it happens, leading to even more complaints.

        We all stumble over our words, some more than others. This doesn’t reflect on their ability to perform important functions, such as the presidency. Even the best television personalities have misspoken at least once in their careers.

        (Me ignoring the age-part, while all the arguments that were thrown at Biden also apply to the other side!)

        1. Csethiro Ceredin*

          Yes, and any of us who had to speak publicly a lot, with every word scrutinized, would be found to use the wrong word or stumble sometimes too. I’m Canadian but I found that whole thing just infuriating.

      3. Elizabeth West*

        Quite frankly, he’s been doing amazing — I didn’t even know he had one for a really long time, until someone mentioned it.

    9. Cubicles & Chimeras*

      I’m so angry too. Like rage filled in ways that is hard for me to get before a second cup of coffee.

      Additionally OP you don’t deserve to be so harsh on yourself for having a weird accent or a speech impediment. We all have something going on, I routinely mispronounce words because I read way above my reading level as a child and learned words as how I read them and not how they’re actually pronounced and it’s a hard habit to break. (The English language is an adventure.) Plus a stutter that kicks in whenever my anxiety gets high because the brain is a mystical place.

      Know you’re just one of many of us, be kind to yourself, and know that you deserve to be in a workplace where the way you talk is just a quirk of you, and not something to be mocked. I hope this weekend you do something to remind yourself of how awesome you are, how hard you’ve worked to overcome your speech impediment, and how much you can contribute to the world having the unique viewpoint of such a diverse upbringing.

      1. Ultimate Facepalm*

        This was so validating for my daughter! She mispronounces things frequently and I bet this has something to do with it. I could not wait to tell her. Thanks for posting this. :)

        1. Cubicles & Chimeras*

          I’m so glad to hear! It definitely made me feel self conscious for so long, but now I just laugh and roll with it. Hope she can find some pride in her reading love and skills :))))

        2. Properlike*

          I will second this observation (re vocabulary from reading instead of conversation.)

          If your daughter’s ability to sound out “fake” words on the screening tests is lower than her other scores, this is one potential reason.

          Betcha any librarian has a story of at least one word they mispronounced into adulthood!

        3. Lime green Pacer?*

          I discovered I was mispronouncing a lot of words (in my head, at least) when I started listening to CBC Radio. Just a week ago, I discovered (via an audiobook) that I was pronouncing “flaccid” wrong.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Every single person who speaks English has an accent and mispronounces words. Literally all of us.

        Some accents are given more privilege on TV/radio, but that doesn’t make a Midwest accent better than a Rhode Island accent (not that I’ve ever heard the latter mentioned, and I grew up in New England) or a Georgian accent or an Indian accent.

        As for mispronouncing words, I consider it the hallmark of a voracious reader to know a lot of words and how they should be used in context but not how to say them.

        1. Cubicles & Chimeras*

          I’m from Wisconsin originally, you should hear me pronounce “milk”, nobody outside of WI ever understands me. (FWIW, we pronounce it “melk” because we flatten all our vowels. Makes ordering coffee fun.)

          1. goddessoftransitory*

            This makes me think of Bart Simpson’s “Malk?” (With plenty of Vitamin R!)

        2. Humble Schoolmarm*

          The era of the books you’re reading can lead you astray, though. When I was 9 or 10, I read a bunch of 1920s fiction (Agatha Christie, I blame you) where ejaculated was used as a synonym for exclaimed. I had a dim notion that word meant something else too, but that wasn’t clarified until I used it in conversation. Oops!

      3. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

        RAGE inducing. Report report report. That person should not be managing anyone.

        I mispronounce words both for reading above my reading level when I was little and having a mother whose first language is not English and often gets the accent on the wrong syllable.

        I also have an odd way of saying some sounds because her accent worked its way subtly into my speech pattern. Not something most people would notice but I did get mocked in high-school for my inability to say the ng dipthong “normally”. I also say my “L” abnormally & have crazy “extra”-hard consonant sounds. (But I can say pinot noir and croissant properly!)

        The most mind blowing experience I ever had was a voice for stage class in college where they had us all read a fairly straight forward passage of text. There was a visiting dialect expert. She listened to my reading and very quickly said – You are from Southeast PA but your parents are not. One parent, your primary caregiver, is French and learned English in France or England, but has lived in this country for at least a decade before you were born, primarily in the east coast. The other parent has an undertone of Pittsburgh area but has had extensive formal voice/diction training and is very deliberate with their diction. All 100% true.

        2. Cubicles & Chimeras*

          I love finding all these friends who did the reading level mispronunciation problem. Feels so nice to not be alone!

          2. bishbah*

            Sounds like a female Henry Higgins. Just do a gender-swapped “My Fair Lady” and you’re golden.

        4. Orv*

          I once started a new job in the Linguistics Department at a college, and within the first couple hours two different professors had pegged me as being from upper Michigan.

      4. LadyVet*

        Oh my God, this! I stutter and read a lot and there are so many words that make me stutter extra if I read them out loud because I have to stop to figure out how to pronounce them.

    10. Anne Shirley Blythe*

      Post-report, I would love for that hiring manager to be fired on the spot and perp-walked outta there. A gal can dream.

      LW1, were there any witnesses to her “greeting”? Was anyone else present during the interview? Did she continue to react to your speech pattern with expressions or an attitude?

    11. jmc*

      Yesss report that person NOW. They are no better than trump mocking disabled people. That is not excusable ever.

      1. hello*

        well, Trump did reportedly say that disabled people should just be killed, so I’d say this is probably a little bit better. still unacceptable though

    12. This is Me*

      REPORT this person NOW. There is no excuse for this, and they are acting no better than trump mocking disabled people.

      1. Properlike*

        I was going to say that I bet he inspired that hiring manager to think it was acceptable.

    13. Ultimate Facepalm*

      This really pissed me off. I am so sorry you were treated that way. I hope you decide to say something because any halfway decent manager would make sure it never happens again. I hope you find a great job soon. <3

    14. Hats Are Great*

      Depending on where you live, there may be a government regulator you can report this to. In my state you could report it either to the civil rights commission and/or to the state Department of Labor. Both investigate unfair hiring practices and incidents like this that violate the ADA.

    15. goddessoftransitory*

      I read that and realized that after everything, I can still hold both “raging anger” and “I cannot believe someone would do/say that” in my mind with ease.

      I cannot fathom the company that would keep this person around; I cannot fathom the company that wouldn’t immediately kidnap a quantum physics professor, force them to build a time machine, then go back and stop myself/whoever it was from hiring this person in the first place. But alas, it is not so.

    17. pagooey*

      Piling on with the rest of the respondents to say REPORT the BEJABBERS out of that awful interviewer, LW1. But also, when (not if, I hope) you do, will you come back and tell us about the fallout? I would dearly love to live vicariously through that torches-and-pitchforks denoument.

  4. Almost Disappointed Australien*

    With the unconventional baby my first thought was that LW had told her coworkers unconventionally and it hadn’t gone well. I was thinking “interpretive dance. You used interpretive dance and they didn’t understand”.

    I’m almost disappointed that the reality is so normal by comparison.

    1. coffee*

      I feel like “having a baby” would be one of the more successful messages to communicate through interpretive dance? If absolutely pressed to communicate something that way.

      “Our lunch order has arrived” would be another decent option.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        “This arm movement represents the rye bread for Kathy’s BLT, while this one is for the French Roll that Bob wanted.”

      1. Waving not Drowning*

        I once did a presentation in interpretive dance on how to create pivot tables in excel in a team I was in a few years back. It is still referenced as one of the most entertaining staff presentations. The former team member I still see regularly doesn’t remember how to create pivot tables, but, they know they are a thing, and that I’m the pivot table queen, so I’m counting it as a win.

        1. Juicebox Hero*

          I’d pay serious cash money to see an interpretive dance-off between you and my sister, the self-proclaimed queen of pivot tables.

        2. AlabamaAnonymous*

          As a fellow lover of pivot tables, I love this! Now I’m going to spend my day wondering what dance moves you used :-)

          1. Goldenrod*

            I’m frightened of pivot tables. Maybe an interpretive dance would help them seem more approachable to me.

    3. Cj*

      I don’t understand why they don’t think they can’t hide the fact that the baby isn’t genetically hers.

      I understand the biological parents might be of a different if she uses a donated embryo. But if it was her biological child and their father was a different race, they still could have looked very different from her, whether she got pregnant through natural conception or a sperm donor.

      mixed race people very often look like one biological parent or another as far as race, so the fact that the embryo donated by two people of the same race isn’t necessarily a giveaway.

      1. Ally McBeal*

        Also, maybe I’m off-base here, but I know prospective parents can select sperm donors that closely match their ethnicity/ies or other physical traits, so I’m not sure why it would be so different with egg donors. There’s certainly fewer egg donors than sperm donors, so LW may not have quite as many options to choose from, but I imagine she’d be able to at least state a preference for an egg donor who looks somewhat similar to her.

        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          I’m pursuing embryo adoption myself atm. You definitely can select the race of the embryos but of course it depends on what race you’re looking for. And you also can opt for “I don’t care what race the embryos/egg donor/sperm donor are,” which is probably what OP is doing and therefore means that there’s a distinct possibility that the kid wouldn’t be the same race as OP. But I agree that there’s no reason to get into this with your coworkers, OP. If you should get pregnant and folks know that you are single and going it alone, then just say, “Oh, I used donor sperm” or whatever, no need to get into race or any of that. And once you have a kid, I don’t think you need to say anything to anyone about it unless the subject comes up, but even in that case you can just say you used a donor and leave it at that.

          I’d think that unless you have terrible coworkers (or work with someone like the hiring manager in letter 1 here, ugh), it’s going to be the general public you might have to deal with more. I went to high school with two biracial sisters and I only learned a few years ago that their white mother would sometimes get comments from strangers about poisoning the gene pool and other disgusting things like that. UGH. What is wrong with people??

          1. Clisby*

            LW doesn’t need to say anything to people. It’s none of their business. If she thinks co-workers will ask intrusive questions, she should start practicing her perplexed stare, followed by “What a peculiar question.”

            1. Baela Targaryen*

              Disagree — that’s just cutesy and passive aggressive. A smile and “Oh, that’s personal!” is much more effective, in my experience.

              1. Betty*

                It’s not cutesy if you say it seriously and without a smile. Because it IS peculiar (or “odd,” which probably how I would say it) that someone would ask something that is completely none of their business.

              2. MigraineMonth*

                It’s not cutesy or passive-aggressive to imply someone is being rude. Said without a smile or anything to smooth it over, “What a peculiar question” is pretty direct in telling someone they have crossed the boundaries of propriety.

                1. DisgruntledPelican*

                  It’s probably the use of the word peculiar. I think I’ve only ever heard people use that word in a whimsical Alice in Wonderland kind of way.

                  If you want to say a question is rude, I would just use the word rude.

              3. Anonythis*

                I like Captain Awkward’s responses to weirdly over-personal questions. Includes hits like ‘wow, I would be so embarrassed to have said that’, just ‘wow’ on its own, ‘did you know you said that out loud’, friendly smile and ‘let’s pretend you didn’t say that’. Give them exactly one opportunity to walk it back.

            2. Miss Muffet*

              Miss Manners’ oft recommended, “why do you ask” is always a good one – most of the time people don’t have a reasonable answer for this and making them just articulate out loud that they are nosy will stop them.
              As an adoptive parent of a different-race child, I learned early to discern if a question was just curiosity vs genuine interest, and of course you know how close a person is to you and to what degree you might want to share that. For instance, we super-often get asked why she was placed. Which is private, and her story to share. And we usually just say that in a friendly way, like, I know you didn’t know this but this is how this works in the adoption world. And literally everyone has taken that with grace. And some other questions might be too much info for a colleague or acquaintance, but easier revealed to a close friend, or someone I know is wanting to adopt as well and wants the real info (still not private info about my daughter’s placement, but maybe questions about cost and process that are generally no one else’s business.) So part of your journey, LW, will be learning about what those common questions are and how people handle them and then practicing handling them yourself!

              1. Slow Gin Lizz*

                “Why do you ask?” is a good response! I did training to become a foster/adoptive parent and one of the things they told us multiple times is that you don’t share the kid’s story as to why they were placed in foster care; that’s none of anyone else’s business. It’s important for health care professionals to know (therapists, etc) and maaaaaybe mention something to their teachers if there’s a specific trauma trigger that needs to be avoided, but otherwise you don’t tell the kid’s personal information to anyone who doesn’t need to know it. Kid can obviously share if they want to, but I think it’s also important to allow the kid the power to also decline to tell anyone their story.

            3. Nica*

              Yep – I had 2 kids via IVF while working and was able to work my all my appointments around office hours and by using PTO. I just didn’t want to share that part of my life with my co-workers for a variety of reasons, the biggest one being IT’S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!!! Only one person in the office ended up asking me what I considered an inappropriate question about my pregnancy, my “non-answer” seemed to satisfy her and that was that.

              And, beyond that, neither of my children looks anything like me! We’re not quite sure who my older one looks like (he’s a genetic throwback for sure). My little one is blonde haired and blue eyes (I’m brown haired and brown eyed). Not one person at work ever commented on it other that to say who adorable they are!

              But, if OP still gets rude questions, I find a great response is a perplexed expression and a “And why do you ask?” They usually shift the convo pretty quickly.

      2. ferrina*

        This was one of my thoughts too- genetically related families don’t always look like each other. Hopefully it’s getting more normalized not to assume that a parent isn’t the kid’s parent just because they look like it.
        That said, there are so many stories out there of parents with their genetic offspring being complimented on their “adoption”. If I were OP, I’d have a script in my back pocket, but it would probably be “um, I gave birth to this child?” Of course, no one is entitled to that information either- OP is well within reason to say “wow, it’s so strange that you’d speculate about my kid like that.”

        1. Ali + Nino*

          Thank you! One of my kids and I look nothing like each other – to the point that I have been asked, “She’s not yours, right?” (And my husband and I are the same race.) Indeed, she is. Genes are just weird!

            1. Annie E. Mouse*

              Maybe just semantics, but I really with people would stop using the term “not mine” or “not your own” when referring to a child that is not biologically theirs. LW3 refers to not wanting to have a child of her own. Obviously LW wants to raise a child; I hope she’ll update her language before the child is old enough to wonder why they aren’t her own.

        2. JFC*

          A friend of mine is the oldest of three sisters. She has blonde hair and a rounder shape. Her two sisters have very dark hair and thin, angular builds. Same biological parents to all three. Genes are strange.

          1. The Bigger the Hair…the closer to god*

            My daughter has a lovely friend who has a twin sister. One twin is very blonde and curly, very pale complexion. The other twin is very dark, straight hair, golden brown complexion. You would never know they are related let alone twins. So interesting…

          2. Turquoisecow*

            My stepsister has 3 kids. Two of them are blonde haired and blue eyed and she has brown hair and eyes. (But her mom is blonde haired and blue eyed). If you look closely at the face shape you can see a resemblance but it definitely does not look on close glance that they are related, but they 100% are!

      3. I strive to Excel*

        Also, realistically, how often are her coworkers going to see this kid?

        I’ve worked in several places with coworkers with families, ones that are very supportive of parents (as well as their other employees ). I think the most I ever saw the kids was 1-2 times a year at one employer which did a family-inclusive summer party, and even then that was 2-3 specific coworkers who were particularly open about their families. For everyone else – I’ve maybe seen a picture on someone’s desk once or twice. Never did I think to comment that “oh, is that your kid? They don’t look much like you.”

        1. Letter Writer #3*

          In this company, it’s common to bring the baby in (when they’re little during maternity leave) and have pictures on your desk etc. not shoving into people’s faces but absolutely there will be some awareness.

          1. doreen*

            Sure , there will be some awareness – but if they saw the child everyday most will stop at thinking “she must look like her father” , a few will mention that “she must look like her father , and in a few particular situations , one might say something stupid but that person doesn’t deserve any more of an answer than “she looks like her father” – which is the answer a co-worker got when she asked if my biracial child had Down’s syndrome.

            Explaining your situation to people is likely to cause attention on your decision than saying nothing. You are planning to both give birth and raise this child, so you won’t be in a situation where you have to explain a pregnancy with no baby or vice-versa. I once worked with someone whose pregnancy caused a lot of talk around the office – but there was only talk because she told people she wanted a child so she had 1) an affair with the husband of one of her friends and 2) lied to him about being on birth control. If she hadn’t told people, no one would have asked and they would have just assumed there was a partner , if they thought about it at all.

      4. reputationcoded*

        I agree that I wouldn’t want to share any of this detail with coworkers… can you just say you’re adopting an infant? That way there are no questions about paternity and whether or not they look like you? I could be completely off base here but that feels like a tidy way to address it at work at first blush.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Uh, no. She’s going to be pregnant while working and then giving birth (hopefully not while at work). She may be using the lactation room afterwards to pump milk for the child she birthed.

          Calling it an adoption is going to raise a *lot* more questions than it answers.

        2. Nameless*

          It sounds like OP is using an egg donor but would be the one actually gestating – if she’s visibly pregnant but also says she’s adopting, that might just lead t0 more questions!

            1. Annie E. Mouse*

              Actually, I would kind of love it if she goes through pregnancy, goes out on maternity leave, and then returns to work with an infant and tells everyone she adopted. It sends one hell of a message that the kid’s conception is really none of their business.

      5. LaurCha*

        Sure, but people WILL comment if your baby doesn’t look like you. It’s rude, it’s none of their business, but anticipating that it will happen? Totally reasonable.

        1. amoeba*

          Hmm, I can see them commenting, but I wouldn’t assume they’d actually wonder about genetics? I’d take it more as (rude) small talk that doesn’t really require any answer beyond “haha, yeah, I know” or whatever.

      6. Katherine*

        My friend has a child via embryo adoption who looks just like her, to the point strangers will comment on how they have the same smile. Of my 2 bio kids (mixed race) one looks just like me and one looks just like my husband, to the point random strangers ask if he’s adopted and once when I took him to rock climbing gym an employee told me his parents would have to fill out a waiver and I was like yes I am filling out the waiver and the employee kept repeating herself until I realized she didn’t think I was his parent and clarified.

    4. Tired*

      Piggy-backing off this comment to say that I have a coworker that became pregnant without a partner (on purpose). I have never seen it come up at work aside from what details she chose to share herself conversationally. I have also been through IVF and no one at work demanded I explain why or provide the genetic makeup of my child. I think you’re over-estimating how deeply your coworkers will be thinking about this.

      1. Butterfly Counter*

        Exactly.

        Aside from being generally happy for my coworkers when they’ve had a baby, I’ve only ever thought about it more when it affected me because of maternity/paternity leave or when I’ve had to cover because they had to stay home with a sick kid.

        I’ve never even been slightly curious as to how they or their partners got pregnant. In fact, I’d prefer not thinking about that in any way, shape, or form. No thank you.

    5. Betty*

      If you haven’t seen it, you should check out ‘Dance your Ph.D.’ The 2022 winner was “Investigation of yeast cell responses to pulsed electric field treatment”, for instance.

      1. AlabamaAnonymous*

        I had to go look those up. They are fantastic and hilarious! Thank you for a bright spot on this dreary Friday!

    6. Spero*

      Card carrying member of the ‘my bio kid looks nothing like me’ crew here…her dad is mixed and she strongly favors him. She absolutely does have a fair number of my features but they’re things that are kind of generic so you’d have to know what her dad looks like to see what came from me (ex: hair has my texture and straightness but his color, she has my somewhat distinctive ears, hands, and feet but people don’t usually notice those bits).
      The funny thing is though that we are ALWAYS told it’s very clear she is my daughter because she makes all the same facial expressions I do. Since that’s a learned behavior I have seen that with adopted/non-bio related friends families before – people will think they look like you if they make the same expressions or have the same quirks!

    7. Nesprin*

      I’ll also point out that I have 0 interest in how any of my coworker’s children were conceived.
      Unconventional would be sharing any details other than “pregnant due January”, “doing well”, “baby shower is on X”, and of course, pictures once the kid is cleaned up and in a tiny hat.

      1. Turquoisecow*

        Yeah my kid was born via IVF, and zero of my coworkers know that, all they got was “I’m expecting a baby in September,” and then a photo when she was born; it’s customary for expecting parents to send an update “Baby was born (time, date), here’s a photo, baby and mom are doing well,” and then that gets forwarded to everyone (small office) or, when I opened at a larger company, everyone in the department.

      2. RussianInTexas*

        Honestly. Except for a couple coworkers I work closely with, I have no idea how other colleagues “got” their children, what those children look like, and for many if they even have kids. Or married. Or not. And even for the coworkers I do work close with, I only know of one who went through IVF, and only because she decided to share. The rest – I have no clue.
        Your coworkers do not really care about you that much to care how you children came to be.

    8. Letter Writer #3*

      Alas, interpretive dance was not on my agenda.

      Although, maybe I should… My manager would love it.

    9. Momma Bear*

      That would have been hilarious.

      I would tell anyone who got nosy that I was taking a page from Mindy Kaling. Or participating in a secret science experiment. Or any number of “none of your business” responses. Since LW mentioned ADHD, I’d remind them that Rejection Sensitivity is a jerk and try to not worry about people’s reactions. That’s their problem, not hers. Also, if you already have a response, you’re less likely to get caught in an impulsive answer you might regret later – people pry and are annoying and if you just keep telling them the same very boring thing, they’ll stop. Stick to need to know, as in telling your boss you need time off for appointments or you expect to be out on leave by a particular date, but don’t feel like anyone needs to know the day to day details of your pregnancy and health (unless you want to share). Also, get childcare secured as soon as you know your due date. Babies come when they want, but at least you’ll have a slot.

      Good luck, LW!

    10. Barnes and Noble Bridge Burner*

      Haha, I almost asked OldBoss, is that you? Every time she could she referred to communicating by interpretive dance. But she is/was not Australian.

  5. Resentful Oreos*

    #1 makes me see red. Report, report, report. The hiring manager is a garbage person, and might well be flouting anti-discrimination laws. Report. For the sake of every other person with a disability that wants to work at that company.

    #2 – Alison’s answer was perfect. It’s none of anyone’s business that you are having a child with donor eggs, at all. Nor is it their business you will be a single parent. Just say “I’m expecting a baby in [month]! That’s all you have to tell people.

    1. Another Use of the Identify Spell*

      Would it be useful to also post in the interview section of their Glassdoor page? I occasionally check those but have never gotten anything useful out of it. This, however, is something that would be extremely helpful to know before wasting time applying. Or worse, getting hired and being trapped with this person and the company culture that lets her think that was a perfectly OK thing to say.

      1. ferrina*

        If OP feels comfortable, I’d highly recommend it. I always check Glassdoor when interviewing, and this would be key information for me.
        My company’s HR department also regularly checks our Glassdoor, and if someone posted this, they would be livid. That manager would be lucky to still have a job.

        1. Ready for the weekend*

          I would say so if OP doesn’t want to work for that company at all. But nonetheless, OP should let their management know right away.

    2. jasmine*

      I’m kind of on the fence with #1, because it would be great if HR could make the manager see the error of her ways. But I think the more likely outcome is that the manager will be more outwardly polite, but won’t see anything wrong with her behavior.

      Knowing that a manager thinks this behavior is okay would be valuable information to me as a candidate.

    3. mr.mathmadz*

      LW, it is nobody’s business how or why you’re having a baby, I second the advice not to share with people.

      Not the least because I also have ADHD and autism, and if someone I actually knew told me they wanted to use a donor egg solely to avoid passing those conditions on it would be hard for me to separate the way that statement makes me feel about myself & existence, from my strong belief that you absolutely have a right to control your own reproductive decisions without outside input from unaffected parties. So yeah, I would keep all of that info and reasoning to yourself, for a multitude of reasons.

      Genuinely best of luck to you LW

      1. Letter Writer #3*

        I think this is why I feel so strongly about this but also know it is so difficult to explain. For me, it is the best choice. But also, I know that others would feel very differently and I don’t want to hurt or offend them.

        Thank you for your kind words!

  6. Certaintroublemaker*

    LW3, there are so many things that could be going on here that the “worst case” scenario is a slim possibility. Work is just different when you’re on site. Your two employees might have blocked out time to brainstorm on a project together or for one to train the other in something, and your boss’s meeting at that time is a coincidence. Maybe there was a flyer on the bulletin board about needing someone to plan the office blood drive—your boss being the contact and your employees volunteering. Maybe your employees ganged up to beg their grandboss to find funding to replace the aging coffee maker in the break room. Or get blinds for their west-facing windows. Unless you feel like you are really dropping the ball and communications with your employees are a black hole, it’s not necessarily something to worry about.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      Yeah, even if they are meeting with the boss (and there is really no reason to assume they are), it’s still unlikely to be about the LW. Perhaps they want to discuss the behaviour of another on-site employee and went to the grandboss since the employee is not on the LW’s team or perhaps he wanted to speak to them about a promotion that is coming up and encourage them to apply or perhaps he wanted to ask them to help out with some task another team is doing or the grandboss may just simply be scheduling meetings with people from various teams to get a better sense of how things are going across the company.

      1. ferrina*

        Yeah. Even if we go on the long walk to assume that they are meeting with the boss (no evidence of that, the scheduling could easily be coincidence), and that they are talking about OP (again, no evidence of that), the next likely step would be that OP’s boss would talk to OP.

        At one point a coworker and I had reason to talk to my boss’s boss. It was about an issue that I had already talked to my boss about repeatedly and she had brushed me off. My manager was remote. My coworker had run into the same issue. So we talked to the boss’s boss. It wasn’t on our calendars. And the boss’s boss listened to us, then immediately went to my boss to see how she wanted to address the issue. No harm was done to her reputation, and the grandboss reinforced her authority.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          Yeah, the odds that it is a complaint about the OP or that the boss wants to interrogate them about something related to the OP is…well, it’s possible, but there are probably dozens of more likely possibilities.

          I can imagine the OP might feel a bit…out of the loop or something when they are working remotely and worry that things might be going on behind their back, so to speak, but I don’t think they have any real reason to worry based on what they have said here.

    4. Bob Lob Law*

      LW specifically mentioned that the meeting was marked “private”, which suggests that’s a departure from the office norm. You wouldn’t use the private flag for a benign appointment or meeting.

      1. Bob Lob Law*

        To clarify, I don’t think that means it’s necessarily about LW or that LW should worry about it, but it’s clearly a topic that someone felt needed to be kept private.

      2. Crepe Myrtle*

        maybe it’s to plan a surprise party for OP! It could be anything, not just something bad.

      3. Ess Ess*

        I certainly do use ‘private’ for benign appointments. Unless it is a directly work-related meeting, my appointments and blocked time are not anyone else’s business. They only need to know if I’m available or not.

        1. Bob Lob Law*

          It’d be a very weird coincidence if LW3’s direct report and boss each had an appointment for the same exact time and duration marked “private”. This is a meeting.

          1. All Het Up About It*

            The Boss’s meeting wasn’t marked private. It was just busy. I took that to mean that the boss doesn’t share the calendar details with the OP in general, so they can only see busy or free and never any details – so we don’t actually know if the boss’s even was private or “Zoom meeting with Marketing.”

            1. amoeba*

              Yup, this. And for the two employees, I’d honestly just assume “lunch date” or something similar non work-related! or Or two separate private appointments that have nothing to do with each other – I mean, it’s lunchtime, people do schedule private stuff there quite frequently!

    5. Butterfly Counter*

      This is an unkind way to put it, and I apologize, but I think both LW2 and LW3 are suffering from “main character syndrome.” Not necessarily in bad ways! We’re all the main character of our own lives! But other people aren’t thinking of us, nor are they as curious about the details of our lives, as we are of ourselves.

      For LW3, I fall into the same trap when I teach. Whenever I see two students whispering behind their books, my first thought is that they’re talking about me, specifically, they’re making fun of me because of my appearance. There’s a non-zero chance that that’s what they’re whispering about, but when I started, it used to bother me. Now, I still have the same initial fear, but I just quickly check my zipper and my nose for boogers and move on with my lecture. I’ve done all I can and chances are it’s not about me at all.

      1. Letter Writer #3*

        I think this is unkind, as LW3.

        When you are doing something very outside of the norm like me, even if most people will be fine with it, it’s normal to be worried about reactions and to plan accordingly, and to make sure that you have all your ducks in a row for a potential negative reaction. Sometimes, it won’t happen. But when it does, it could be very impactful on your life – in my case, I didn’t know how to approach this with the people who make decisions about my job, what I work on, and the people I work with.

        I dislike this idea that main character syndrome is what anybody who suffering from who worries about reactions to their behavior – sometimes, the worry is justified.

        1. Properlike*

          Let me rephrase Butterfly Counter, because they weren’t being quite that literal: we all tend to see things through our own perspectives, and for the ADHDer, there is the very real “Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria” that makes us personalize things that have nothing to do with us.

          Also a teacher, also would tend to assume things were about me that where nowhere in the neighborhood of me. It’s the anxiety talking. “Main Character Energy” was simply being used to shortcut that whole two paragraphs. :)

    6. Barnes and Noble Bridge Burner*

      My first thought was, skip-level meeting. Just getting employee’s takes on their overall experience at work. Unlikely to reveal problems for the manager, and if there are any surprises, I’d imagine/hope that their manager would help them make changes/corrections vs anything else.

      My 2nd thought was perhaps they are on a committee for something to do with being on site. I was on an employee morale team with my grandboss, and a committee to decorate the office for Halloween. Perhaps it’s something as innocuous as that.

  7. Language Lover*

    lw #2

    If your child doesn’t look like you, most people will simply assume that it takes after its biological father. It is extremely unlikely, definitely vastly more unlikely than you fear it is, that people will think or know this child is genetically unrelated to you. Especially if you carry the child.

    I don’t think you’ll have to worry about explaining a or b. At most, people will be nosy about the father. Alison provided some good responses for those questions.

    1. nnn*

      That’s what I was thinking. If a baby doesn’t look like their father, there are Connotations. But if a baby doesn’t look like their mother, the assumption is simply that they look like their father.

      Source: I look exactly like my father (which is not a particularly good thing, since I’m a woman). People have commented on how much I look like my father, but no one has ever commented on how I don’t look like my mother.

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        I (a woman) also look like my father, and my brother looks like our mother. I’ve always gotten comments on how much I resemble Dad, and my brother has always gotten a little side-eye for not resembling him at all! (Mom is a fair skinned, blue eyed blonde, and Dad is olive toned with very dark hair and eyes.)

        1. CommanderBanana*

          Opposite but same for me – my older sibling came out an exact reproduction of the cousins from my dad’s side, I came out a miniature version of my mother.

          When out with my dad, I have gotten asked if I’m adopted more than once since we look so unalike that no one assumes we are related. What’s odd is that personality-wise I am much more like my dad and my brother is much more like my mom.

          Genetics are weird.

          1. Butterfly Counter*

            Ha! Yes. I am practically a clone of my mother, but I’m definitely my father’s child in everything else.

          2. Carl*

            “Genetics are weird.”
            Seriously! Our children are full siblings, but biologically related to only one of us.
            And, wow. For starters…all the kids have very bright light blue eyes, and no one (for many generations) has light eyes. I know possible…but how many times can lightening strike? Child one, except for the eyes, is my identical face and personality twin, but he is a foot and a half taller and lanky AF. Child two, except for the eyes, is even more my face twin, but does not have my personality AT ALL, but has my exact build (short/thick).
            It’s like someone went down a check list and just randomly clicked “yes, yes, no, etc.”

            My spouse (genetically unrelated to kids, but the primary parent in so many ways) looks NOTHING like either child but has never gotten a comment. Ever.

            I have friends who have received comments about not resembling kids, but it has been when there is a skin tone difference, and mom is darker skin. Strangers assuming that mom is not related and the “help.” Gross.

            Op, I think it’s unlikely anyone will say a word. You don’t have to be genetically related to be a parent, and most people get that implicitly. You don’t have to trip over yourself explaining bc most people understand that and have experienced that in their own extended family and circle of friends to some extent.

            1. Katherine*

              My husband (dark skinned) was once stopped leaving a store with our older son (light skinned). He thought it was funny and took out his phone to show the security guard family photos but when he told me I was enraged.

        2. PhyllisB*

          Same. I look just like my dad, and my son looks just like me.
          When he was in school I was always getting stopped and asked are you “John’s” Mama? (We live in the South.) When I would confirm, they would say “You look just like him!!” (actually, it’s the other way around!!) I would just say, yes,that’s his cross to bear. One of my girls sort of favors her dad, but the other one also looks just like me. My dad died before they were born, and when I showed them photos they were stunned at the resemblance.

    2. Myrin*

      Yeah, this letter seems like one of those things where because OP knows the intricacies of the whole situation and they’re really important and big and impactful to her, she vastly overestimates how interesting and meaningful they are to everyone else. Quite frankly, people aren’t going to care or even think about it this much. (I mean, there can always be exceptions, but that’s the case for literally everything.)

      (Case in point: neither me nor my sister particularly resemble either of our parents, although we do look a lot like each other, apparently, since people keep thinking we’re twins – but I’m not aware that literally anyone ever thought either of us isn’t genetically related to our parents.)

      1. allathian*

        I look a lot like a fatter, taller, and younger version of my mom. My younger sister looks a lot like our paternal grandma did at her age.

        1. Jackalope*

          Some of it is also the way you act, carry yourself, etc. When we were growing up my stepsister and I (no biological connection at all) often got told how much we look like sisters. The same thing happens with a good friend of mine who has the same color hair as I do, and basically no other similarities in appearance or build. If you’re the one raising a child they will pick up a lot of your mannerisms, talking style, etc. You’ll probably still get annoying comments if they’re a different race because people are rude, but they’ll probably resemble you more than you think.

          1. Emmy Noether*

            Definitely! My mother and I don’t look that alike in photos, but people seem to be able to tell when they see us move.

            1. I Super Believe In You, Tad Cooper*

              Same with my brother and me! Our features are completely different–I take entirely after my dad’s side of the family, he takes entirely after my mom’s side–but everyone says we have an uncanny resemblance just because our mannerisms are so dang similar and distinctive.

          2. Kit*

            Yeah, one of my relatives (my mom’s cousin) has a son who everyone has always said looks just like his dad – but his mannerisms are so much his mother’s that the superficial physical resemblance is nearly invisible to me by comparison, especially as he’s gotten older. He might be taller and brunette, but he’s her little clone in so many behavioral aspects that it’s impossible not to see the resemblance if you know her. I’d bet LW and her kid will end up in the same boat.

      2. Letter Writer #3*

        My concern is not that most people will want to know – I know that most people are uninterested beyond ‘oh, you’re pregnant? Congratulations!’ part and I’m okay with that. But there are a lot of people who are more nosy, who do know I don’t have a partner and who know of my health issues that are likely to ask more invasive and difficult questions, especially if my child is of a mixed ethnicity (as I am not). I live in a very white centric part of the country with little exposure to ethnic minorities. I wanted to prepare for this.

        And you know, future preparations are important. I have been saving for this child for a while now – I excel at planning. Execution of said plan… we’ll see.

        1. Lady Lessa*

          Good luck and may you have a healthy, little one without colic. One of my co-worker’s wife had a baby, and the way he cries, I suspect colic. (Now if only his doctor could help them)

          1. PhyllisB*

            About baby with colic: tell her to try lactose free formula. if she’s nursing, use Lactaid before eating dairy and Beno before eating gassy producing foods. (I realize there’s generic versions of these, but these are names people recognize.) My oldest granddaughter had colic and I suggested this to my breastfeeding daughter, and it made all the difference in the world!! I told her pediatrician and he said he never would have thought of that, but it wouldn’t hurt her so carry on.
            Just wish I had had that awareness when my daughter was a baby she cried CONSTANTLY but people didn’t really know about lactose intolerance then.

        2. Nonsense*

          “Wow! That’s a very personal question. [insert blatant topic change].”

          “Wow! Why do you ask?” [insert some excuse here]. “That’s very personal. [blatant topic change].”

          Speaking as someone who definitely has ADHD and I suspect am AuDHD, it’s taken me a while to learn that just because someone asks doesn’t mean they’re entitled to the information. Some people will realize they’re being rude and will apologize. Others will bluster and get even ruder and claim it’s only a question and you’re being so defensive. They are still not entitled to the answer, and you’ll have to hold firm.

          It helps me to imagine act out these various boundary pushing scenarios and practice my response. When they actually happen my response isn’t perfect, but the practice helps me have the words close at hand and recognize when I’m being pushed.

          Good luck on this next phase of life!

          1. Letter Writer #3*

            I like this approach and I appreciate the scripts, too. I like scripts :)

            And thank you so much. I hope to be back (relatively) soon with good news!

            2. Zelda*

              The big, obvious topic change can be both a lifeline to the thoughtless-but-well-meaning, and a rebuke to the nosy-and-self-centered. If you can have a work or work-adjacent topic of perennial interest in mind to whip out as needed (do you think there will be bonuses this year? will they ever put the water-cooler on the third floor back?) that can be smooth. I have sometimes been not-smooth with random topics (as in, literally “So, umm, how about that sportsball team that played, like, umm, recently?”) as a big ol’ sign for “you are making me very uncomfortable and I really need you to stop.”

            3. Kit*

              A good script really is reassuring, isn’t it? I’m glad you’ve thought ahead and are collecting scripts for the sort of nosy questions that someone will eventually blurt out, hopefully you don’t need to pull them out often!

            4. Usurper Cranberries*

              If it helps, maybe focus also on protecting your child’s medical privacy – I know I’d feel very uncomfortable if I learned that my mother’s coworkers knew the details of my conception before I even existed, regardless of how obligated she felt to answer questions.

          2. Slow Gin Lizz*

            I’m ADHD and also suspect AuDHD and this tracks with my experience too. I’ve had to learn that silence is also a perfectly valid response to personal questions I don’t want to answer. Or even just a longer moment of silence before answering, especially with these good responses Nonsense has provided. Shrugging works well too. But I am extremely detail-oriented and have a hard time giving vague answers, so coming up with a few generic answers to questions I get asked a lot works really well for me.

            And with my parents, when they’re saying things like they don’t like the way someone is dressed or they don’t like someone’s tattoos, my new favorite comeback is, “That sounds like a you problem.” I think I picked that up from AAM, actually, but it could also have come from Captain Awkward. (And I honestly have no idea why my parents are so anti-tattoo, it’s really bizarre. I wish I could think of a good design for one because I want to get one just to bug them.)

            1. ferrina*

              I’m ADHD as well, and I never realized this was an ADHD thing! I also tend to answer questions exactly as asked (even though I’m very good at dodging questions when I want to, I just need to mentally prepare to dodge or else I forget that it’s an option!)

              1. Nonsense*

                I’m not sure if it’s an ADHD thing so much as being conditioned to overexplain my reasoning for why I did something odd, which has a very high overlap with ADHD bullet 1 to point F logic jumping. When you learn early that you have to justify all your decisions because you apparently don’t use the same logic, it’s hard to realize that no, really, you don’t owe someone an explanation about your personal choices.

                1. Slow Gin Lizz*

                  Good point! I don’t know if it’s an ADHD thing either, but the fact that I can’t seem to focus on one or two big things and instead gather up in my brain allllllll the little things seems like an ADHD thing. Correlation or causation, who knows?

          3. Betty*

            I don’t know your coworkers, but there may also be some nosiness with good intent from people who know you moderately well. (Thinking of things like “Oh, I didn’t realize you were even seeing anyone!” that come from a place of “I feel bad that I must have missed something important in your life” plus an admittedly dumb assumption.) If you’re comfortable sharing, you can say in a positive tone “Nope, just me!” and then change the subject (either back to a work topic or a more comfortable baby topic– “But what I AM trying to figure out is whether a video monitor is really worth it, did you use one with baby Wilhelmina?” etc.) “Oh, you’re kind to worry”[with no other information offered] + subject change is also a good one if you think it’s well-intentioned.

          4. MigraineMonth*

            There’s also the simplest script: “Wow.”

            [allow awkward silence to hang]

            [allow awkward silence to hang]

            [allow awkward silence to hang]

            [allow awkward silence to hang]

            [walk away]

          5. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

            For the “it’s only a question” and “why are you being defensive?” people, it’s worth remembering that they are the ones dodging your question–they’re blustering to avoid telling you why they asked.

            I wouldn’t suggest actually smiling and saying “I only asked you a question, so why aren’t you answering it?” Just, remember that they are refusing to answer your much less personal question (“why do you ask?”) as you say something like “oh. how are you doing with those TPS reports?”

        3. I didn't say banana*

          I’m a single mum by choice, to a donor (my own eggs though, not that it matters). I announced it during a meeting at work, a colleague said “I didn’t even know you had a partner!”. I cheerily said “I don’t”. And that was the end of it. No one asked any other questions (and we are a close, nosy bunch!) and everyone moved on to parenting advice for me. No one in my family even asked about the donor, and I didn’t offer anything. People were surprisingly disinterested in the details beyond “baby!” I hope your plans and announcement go just as easily!

        4. FashionablyEvil*

          Echoing that you don’t need answer questions. When I came back from maternity leave one of my male colleagues asked me if I’d had a vaginal delivery or a c-section. I was so startled I just said, “It’s snowing here, John!” And moved on.

          (Why, why he thought that was an appropriate work question I will never know. Maybe because he trained as a doctor? But I REALLY REALLY do not want colleagues asking about my vagina. Jesus Christ.)

          1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

            Let me say it again for you OP — just because someone asks a question does not mean they deserve an answer. You are allowed to tell them something is none of their business, if it is non-work related like having a baby.

          2. Cat Woman*

            I’ve found my new auto response to any and all ridiculous questions from here on out…”It’s snowing here, John!”

        5. curious mary*

          You may also have people tell you that your child looks just like you, even if the child doesn’t. I look just like my dad and not at all like my mom, but when my mom brought me to work for bring your daughter to work day, her coworkers would say that I looked just like her (to emphasize again, I really didn’t). If that happens, just thank them, or say that your child is a cuter version of you. No need to tell them that your child isn’t biologically yours and looks nothing like you.

          1. UKDancer*

            Yes I’m rubbish at dealing with babies and one of my default comments is to say how much they resemble the parent, along with commenting on their lovely eyes or another feature.

            I’d say people also can be considered to resemble a parent if they have similar traits / behaviours. One of my friends was raised by his father and stepmother and while he has no physical resemblance to her he has a lot of her mannerisms, gestures etc. So everyone forgets he’s not biologically hers.

            1. Myrin*

              Also, different people see different things in others!

              My great-grandpa (whom I only know from photos) looked objectively very different from my grandpa but in the two framed portraits in my grandpa’s house, there’s something on his face that’s so undeniably my grandpa that he wouldn’t ever be able to deny that he was his father (which he did, actually; he adopted my grandpa but told everyone he was someone else’s son); I think it’s his laugh.

              I think this is incredibly obvious but in the twenty or so years since I’ve first mentioned it to my mum, she’s told me dozens of times that she doesn’t see it at all. So there’s that.

          2. Miette*

            This right here. I am a white woman with blue eyes and (dyed) red hair. I would often be out and about with my adopted niece, who is white, blue-eyed and has naturally red hair, I’d hear, “Oh your daughter looks just like you!” Unless the person was very close to me (in which case they’d know I was childless, but whatever), my answer was always, “Thank you! Isn’t she adorable?” It was just never worth the energy to explain anything about my family to a stranger.

            OP, you will learn responses like this to just blow it all off over time, trust me. Best of luck on your journey!

          3. RagingADHD*

            My BIL and SIL adopted a child, and he somehow looks exactly like their two faces morphed together in a composite. They weren’t even looking for a child that resembled themselves – he was randomly placed with them for foster care.

            And think of all the casting choices in media where totally unrelated performers are completely believable as younger and older versions of the same person, even when real-world photos show that they did not look the same at those ages.

            The human brain loves pattern recognition so much, it will invent it if necessary.

          4. Lellow*

            I enjoy the amount of my friends, including queer friends, who cheerfully say that my daughter looks just like me but also a lot like her other mum too! Then I wait until the penny drops. It’s hilarious to me every time.

        6. Immaterial*

          I am of a different race than my parents in a majority white area. I really did not get that many questions growing up. People who did ask questions (particularly white people) tend to ask in a very round about way.

        7. Shirley Keeldar*

          Hi, LW, congratulations on your decision to become a parent!

          I’m the white mom of a non-white kid and the two phrases I have in my back pocket are “We consider that family business—thanks for understanding” and “I don’t think I want to have this conversation.” (I’ve never actually had to use the second, and only pulled out the first once or twice. Once was with a stranger who lives in family lore as “the dude in the line at Starbucks.”)

          Your kid will learn from you how to handle this, and when you demonstrate that you feel calm about shutting down rudely curious people, that will help them feel comfortable and safe. You’ve got this!

        8. CommanderBanana*

          I think it’s great that you’re thinking of all of these things, and I wish you much success and happiness on your eventual journey to parenthood, in whatever shape that might take.

          I never wanted to have children, and a not insignificant part of that was a serious family history of mental illness.

        9. Jennifer Strange*

          Wishing you the best of luck in your new journey! I have known women who have decided to pursue pregnancy with a sperm donor as well (don’t know about the egg donor part, but that’s because it’s none of my business), and I think society is starting to become more accepting of it (or at least less scornful). You are always within your right to give vague answers or choose not to answer questions. The world does not have a right to know what’s happening in your womb! Sending you and your future little one lots of love!

        10. Bike Shorts*

          Hi LW3,

          It sounds like you’re relatively close with your coworkers, and in my opinion some of the responses that the commenters are suggesting are overly harsh for your circumstances. If a coworker I was on good terms with iced me out after asking a relatively innocuous question about their Very New Very Exciting pregnancy, it would be pretty jarring. I’m not saying you need to answer any questions AT ALL if you don’t want to. But I don’t think it’s a great idea to imply that any question above and beyond the basic “congrats!” is somehow inappropriate! These people know you! They care about you! If I were LW3m and I got a question I didn’t want to answer, I would say, as warmly as possible, “thanks for your curiosity, but that’s not something I’m ready to share,” or something along those lines. And then change the subject!

          Maybe to some of the folks you’re closer with, you may choose to say something like, “I decided to use a donor embryo for genetic reasons,” and then if you want to end the conversation there, again, you can! Maybe with a line like, “that’s really all the detail I want to get into at work, but I’m very excited! Did you see the Olympics last night?…” Getting out of these conversations gracefully is much better in my opinion than making the other person understand that they were inappropriate.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            From my read, I think commenters (and Alison) are suggesting warm responses to common questions including about the father (“Oh, he’s not going to be involved”).

            The frosty responses would be for, “How could you risk inflicting your disabilities on a child”, “How could you have a child without the father involved” or “Is that really your child? Why is it of a different race than you?”

        11. DD*

          To LW3, another single parent by choice wishing you well as you move on to becoming a parent. I wanted to reply to this comment to say if you are white and live in a white-centric area of the country and are thinking about conceiving or adopting or raising a child of a different ethnicity than your own, it’s important at the planning stage to learn as much as you can about race experience, bias that your child will face (especially when they are not with you), and racial identity. Search for articles preparing parents for transracial adoption, particularly those written by adults who were adopted transracially as children.

          It is hard as a white parent to learn how to talk about race with your child, and even how to recognize subtle forms of bias which your child will certainly face and experience, especially when they are doing things on their own without you right at their side. It turned out to be so important for my kid to have same- or similar-ethnicity peers and role models. Would moving to a more diverse area be on the table?

          Even in a diverse area, bias can be overt, but also can be so subtle (unconscious bias based on expectations). For example, in school, does the teacher leave work uncommented because that’s what she expects the child is capable of, or hand the assignment back saying, “This is too short; I want you to give me more detail.” The higher expectations lead to more teaching and more development opportunities for white kids, even in the same classroom. We ran into this in real life, in a “good” school with well-intentioned teachers in a fairly diverse community which was NOT a good school in reality because it turned out to have a big achievement gap between white and nonwhite students. My whiteness, educational level, and our SES, did not protect my kid from falling into that achievement gap when they moved to that school in late elementary. The sad thing is it took a while for me to even see what was going on. I understand the same thing can (and does) happen at school to a child of color or mixed ethnicity being raised by biological parents, but at least in that case they have one or both parents who live in that reality and would be more tuned-in to noticing where bias is in play and being able to support the child through it, and when to push their child harder to perform and when to push the institution.

          So didn’t mean to be this long-winded, but this is an important part of the planning process, not just whether you could love a baby regardless of their racial background, because it sounds like you could. But that being race-blind doesn’t cut it when you are raising the child to an adult, and it’s an important consideration in deciding whether you should become a mixed-race family or not.

          1. Bellis Coldwine*

            thank you for posting this. I knew second-hand, from a couple adopted friends, that this was something to consider, but I couldn’t have come close to expressing it this thoroughly or eloquently.

        12. daffodil*

          LW one strategy you might consider is telegraphing the response you want and also offering whatever details you want to share up-front. I could imagine a person who wants to share announcing “Exciting news! I’ve adopted an embryo and am pregnant — baby is due (date)! I’m excited to finally become a parent!” (A couple I know who have children via embryo adoption shared like this. Maybe more people I know used this method, and I don’t know about it because they didn’t share). Any questions you don’t want to answer, folks have offered a lot of options, but I like a chirpy “that’s private!”

      3. Irish Teacher.*

        My sister doesn’t look like anybody else in the family (although at a wedding once, a distant cousin came over and asked who she was supposed to resemble; we said she didn’t look like anybody and they said they were just asking because their child looked just like her and they couldn’t think of who she took after either).

        Nobody has ever asked if she was adopted (which is interesting actually because when we were kids, adoption was quite common and it was something that would occur to you as an option way more than it would today).

        And honestly, if a single person had a mixed race child, most people would just assume the father was of another race. Even if you live in a very white area, that doesn’t mean you couldn’t have met the guy when you were on holiday elsewhere or when he was on holiday, visiting your area. I don’t think anybody would see anything strange about that.

        1. TiffIf*

          I know a family that has four kids, one of whom is adopted. If you look at the four kids without reference to their parents you would likely pick the wrong child as the adopted one.

      4. Lucien Nova, Disappointing Australian*

        Oh man, this reminds me of when I was small – my sister’s quite tall, quite blonde, and has the most gorgeous blue eyes. I am not at all tall (and was much less so then!), my eyes are very coppery, and at that point my hair was only just a few shades off of black.

        We are eight and a half years apart in age.

        Without fail, whenever she took me out somewhere, someone would ask if I was her kid.

        She got very good at staring people down and saying “Unless I had a kid when I was eight years old, then no, this is my little sister.” It certainly did get the point across!

        (We’re half-siblings, to be 100% clear – we share a mum (my other older half-sister and I share a dad and she definitely takes after him) and no one’s quite sure where my sister’s looks came from because it isn’t our mum or the absentee father – in terms of colouration and face, I was basically a carbon copy of mum. Now I’ve transitioned, I’m…a carbon copy of my dad, to the point people can’t tell our speaking voices apart without looking to see which of us is talking and I get very easily recognised by people I’ve never met in my life but who know him well. Go figure. Genetics! :))

    3. Nodramalama*

      I do think there are a lot of nosy and gossipy people who take note when someone’s child does not resemble a or both parents (see Prince Harry!), and this is not even bringing into race/ethnicities into the mix which some people seem wildly comfortable speculating about.

      But just because some people might wonder doesn’t mean LW needs to address them!

      1. Jill Swinburne*

        Very true. And the Prince Harry thing becomes even greater nonsense when you look at old photos of Prince Philip – the resemblance is crystal clear. We inherit a huge selection of genes!

        1. Nodramalama*

          Yeah I always thought the Prince Harry thing was weird tbh. Like because he’s a ginger he must have another father? Look at all his other features (no shade, including the hairline!)

          2. bamcheeks*

            People are *super duper weird* about ginger hair. Everyone misremembers “you have to inherit the recessive gene from both sides” as “both your parents must have red hair”, when it’s literally the opposite!

            1. Emmy Noether*

              Yes! Red hair is notorious for popping up “out of nowhere”, because it’s recessive and relatively rare.

              1. Myrin*

                I find reading this so funny because I’m a redhead and for as far back as my family can remember and has photos, the oldest child in every generation had red hair – my mum, her father, his aunt, her father. So those who procreated – comparatively few in each generation, really, and it will end with us because neither me nor my sister are likely to have children – always found a partner who also had the “ginger gene”.

                1. WS*

                  Yes, my mother’s family have exactly one redhead per generation too! They thought I (eldest grandchild) was going to be it when I was a pink-haired baby, but I ended up with dark blonde hair and it’s my cousin who is the full carrot.

                2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

                  I, on the other hand, am the first redhead in four generations on one side and six on the other – but if I have my hair straightened, I am the spitting image of my mother in her black-and-white engagement photo. (In which she was 23, while I am 43, and I get THAT from my dad’s side. :D )

              2. KarenK*

                Happened four times in a row in my family. Mother blonde, dad brunette, four red-headed children.

              3. CommanderBanana*

                Indeed! My mom’s side of the family is Italian from a small town in central/south Italy (not near a coastline) and there are a lot of redheads there. She is one of four siblings – 3 have black hair and brown eyes, the fourth has red hair and green eyes.

              4. Lucien Nova, Disappointing Australian*

                Yes, this. No redheads for as far back in my family as anyone can remember/has pictures of – and my mum’s younger sister was exceptionally ginger!

                (She still is, it just comes out of a bottle now as she went prematurely grey (also a family trait.) She used to give me tips on the best dyes to use when I first got into dyeing my hair as I always adored her hair and wanted to be just like her!)

                On the other hand, mum has always had extremely dark hair and their younger brother was very, very blonde, turning more ginger over time before he decided he was losing too much hair and he’d just shave it all off for the rest of his life.

          3. Irish Teacher.*

            I think Prince Harry is a particular case because genes are so significant to royalty. Until Prince William’s children were born, there was a reasonable chance he could become king and the only reason he would get that position was because of being Prince Charles’ son, so…any possibility he wasn’t would be significant.

            I suspect it’s less “because he’s a ginger he must have another father” and more “what if a royal really of royal lineage? We must scrutinise them all and see if we can find anything that could be MAJOR SCANDAL!” in conjunction with the fact that Charles and Diana’s marriage was the cause of a lot of gossip anyway – was he cheating on her? was she cheating on him? OMG, what if she had a child with somebody else? That would make things really interesting! Let’s examine the kids in close detail to see if either of them could possibly be other than Charles’.

            1. Impending Heat Dome*

              To add to this comment, when they found and positively identified the remains of Richard III, they confirmed his DNA through descendants of the matrilineal line (mitochondrial DNA), whereupon they discovered at least once that XYZ member of the aristocracy was definitely the descendant of Lady Whoever, but not the descendant of her husband. Busted!

              1. Humble Schoolmarm*

                This makes me so bummed that we don’t have the remains of the princes in the tower. Their dad, Richard’s brother, (aka Edward IV) was rumoured to be the product of an affair, and I would love to see if the Ys match.

    4. Anonys*

      I think your comment only applies if you assume that LW herself is white/like skinned/light haired. In that case, yes, if the baby has dark hair and/or skin and/or presents as a person of colour, people often just assume those traits are from the father.

      If LW is a person of colour and ends up having a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyes kid – yes, people likely will wonder if LW is the child’s genetic mother. There are many reports from mixed black women with white partners and biological children who are significantly lighter than them/present as white and those mothers are often assumed to be nannies/caretakers because people wrongly assume they couldn’t possibly be the biological mother of a white-presenting child.

      In any case, it’s not of LW’s coworkers business, anyone who actually comments on it at work is rude, and LW in no way has to justify her choices reg. bio or non bio children to anyone.

      1. Chirpy*

        I mean, there’s also the clueless person who asked someone I know “what adoption agency did you get your beautiful children from” and she (a white woman) stared them down and said “I got them from my husband” (who was black). He wasn’t with them that day, and as it was a fairly white area I know it wasn’t the only time something like that happened, unfortunately.

    5. Jane Bingley*

      Also, people are just kinda dumb about this stuff? My (adopted) brothers are visibly a different race than the genetically related members of our family and people regularly say they look just like our mom or just like our dad. They’re biologically half siblings but people regularly say they each look more like my biological brother.

      You don’t owe anyone answers when they start speculating about your family! We usually just smile and change the subject.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I have had that thought myself! Looking at a kid who I know was adopted, is of a different race than her parents, and thinking how she takes after her dad! There was something in a mannerism or expression that was just him for a second.

  8. Nodramalama*

    LW1 setting aside how egregiously awful the interviewer was, I am also baffled at the mention of Rhode Island. Do people in Rhode Island sound like Duffy duck?!

    LW3 this sounds very paranoid to me. Not only could there be a million explanations for staff members having a private meeting, it might not even be a meeting! It might be blocking out time for a lunch! I find it a bit odd you’re paying this much attention to people’s calenders to be honest. Either there is something very wrong at your workplace or I think you may want to take a step back and let people diarise their calender like they want

      1. Florp*

        This is a good example! In popular culture, Peter and Lois Griffin on Family guy would be the exemplar. I know they are over the top, but I have known a few real life Lois Griffins.

        OP#1, please report. I would want to know if one of my employees was doing this.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I feel like the accent thing deserves almost as much attention as the ableism, particularly since the hiring manager just flat out admitted they have accent prejudices as though that’s no big deal. I know accents aren’t legally protected from discrimination, but there may be people higher up interested to know about this kind of anti diversity gatekeeping, not to mention the basic rudeness of disparaging anyone’s regional speech. I also really felt for OP’s insecurity about their well travelled speech patterns and description of them as “bizarre” and “weird” when they’re most likely just awesome and atypical. I have a strong, non standard accent myself and I more than get the insecurity, but place the title of “bizarre” where it belongs. It’s best used to describe the kind of philosophy that places such a premium on being generic, whatever that means. There is no way to please someone who is this intent on everyone being a clone. If your speech hadn’t helped you dodge the bullet, eventually she would have sensed you were an individual in some other way.

      1. honeygrim*

        I agree, Ellis Bell. For people inclined toward bias, accents seem to be a shortcut to all kinds of stereotypes. I’m from one of the traditional “Deep South” states, and my first professional job was in a very multicultural city in a different state, where I was surrounded by people who spoke all sorts of flavors of English. And still, I know at least one friend who had to defend me to one of their acquaintances who assumed I was a stupid, small-minded hick because of my accent (which is incredibly mild compared to other people from my hometown).

        In OP’s case, one or both of the speech-bias statements the interviewer made is enough to take it to the interviewer’s supervisor or the company’s HR. The company would (hopefully) want to know that a person representing them to the public is opening them up to all sorts of legal trouble.

        1. ScroogeMcDunk*

          Yep, I’m from the east coast of Canada and my accent is mild but noticeable. I’ve definitely had to fight against the “stupid, lazy hick” stereotype a lot when working with folks from other parts of the country.

      2. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

        Accents aren’t legally protected — and in this case, she was making fun of what she thought was a regional accent from a U.S. state — but national origin is protected, and I can’t imagine she doesn’t mock “foreign” accents if she did this in.a.job.interview. So her boss and others in her chain of command would definitely want to know she’s a liability in that way. As well as being a flaming asshole — which is definitely not a protected class, so she should be fired.

      3. Esmae*

        Right, the ableism is terrible but it’s also extremely weird and rude to start making fun of someone’s accent in a job interview.

    3. New Jerseyan*

      Some people are really bad at identifying accents, especially if there’s a speech impediment involved. Like OP, I had a speech impediment as a kid that’s mostly gone but still effects my speech slightly with certain words. I’ve been asked if I’m from Alaska, Wisconsin, Maine, Georgia, Arizona, Colorado, and other random places- even though I grew up in the suburbs of Philly.

      1. Tau*

        And bizarre patchwork accents, especially with another speech issue in play, do make this hard. I have had a geographically varied life and also stutter. Places people have guessed I was from based on English accent include Canada, Ireland, Scotland, the Netherlands and Scandinavia.

      2. LateRiser*

        A local teenager once asked my husband if he’s American. The man has an Oxfordshire accent, and we were in southern England at the time. Just bizarre.

        1. Dahlia*

          I’m Canadian and I used to get asked if I was Australian as a kid. Speech impediment, too.

      3. Me (I think)*

        I grew up in the Philly ‘burbs, went to the South for college, and have been there 40+ years. No one can figure out my accent, yo.

        1. AFac*

          I spent close to a decade in Massachusetts as an adult and my pronunciation of certain words has never been the same since.

          I feel like I really struggle with speaking other languages, so I’m not sure what to make of my tendency to easily pick up accents that aren’t mine.

          1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

            You’re just human. We tend to pick up how words sound from what we hear around us. I’m in California, and one year when I was about 14, out of my 6 classes, 2 of them were with teachers from different parts of the south. My own accent went a little nuts that year. (And this is really different from learning other languages.)

            1. Gumby*

              I sometimes worry that people think I’m trying to fake an accent or making fun of them or something because I do pick up accents unconsciously. If I spend a week in a new location, the accent will creep in, slightly, on some words. No, I’m not faking being British – I just spent a week in London. Nope, not making fun of a southern (US) accent, but I was visiting family in Texas recently. It’s slight but apparently noticeable since I’ve gotten comments on it multiple times. It also doesn’t last too terribly long after I return home.

              OTOH, even after 6 years of Spanish classes in junior high and high school, I still couldn’t roll my Rs.

              1. PickingUpSpeechPatterns*

                It doesn’t take me a week – it takes me 10 minutes, maybe less. When I was younger I would unconsciously start using the accent and speech patterns of anyone I spoke to mid conversation. This was particularly terrible when I lived in New Mexico and started talking in pigdin English without realizing it. It was bad.

                It doesn’t happen as automatically now, but I still have to be careful.

      4. Nightengale*

        the cerebral palsy community sometimes jokes about a CP or cerebral palsy accent

        I don’t have a CP accent when speaking (sound like a generic New Yorker) but I do in sign language. Which can lead to all sorts of interesting cross disability situations!

      1. ferrina*

        If it’s an actor, it matters even less. Many actors will study accents to be able to put on a different affect. Degrees of success differ, of course, but there’s still people out there who don’t realize Dr. House (Hugh Laurie) is British!

        1. LCH*

          fair, i was trying to think of any profession where it might come into play. maybe radio/tv news host is better. but even that has changed.

    5. fhqwhgads*

      Yeah, the interviewer in LW1 is not only an asshole, they have no idea what people from RI sound like. RI accents drop Rs (and do some other vowel stuff that’s hard to explain without being a linguist). Sounds nothing like a lisp. That person is discriminatory and an idiot.

    6. Rhodey Gal*

      I am from Rhode Island and can confirm: we do not sound like Daffy, Donald, Daisy, or any other related or unrelated duck. Such an odd comment – no idear where she got it from.

    7. Orv*

      My immediate thought was that they were thinking of Rudy Giuliani, who has a pronounced lisp. But he’s from New York, not from Rhode Island.

  9. The Unionizer Bunny*

    Complicating things further, I had a very transient upbringing — I grew up not only in numerous states but also in several foreign countries (think military). As a result, I have a bizarre patchwork accent that people can’t place easily.

    If you do file a complaint, dual-file it as a Title VII ethnicity discrimination complaint, too:

    National origin discrimination involves treating people (applicants or employees) unfavorably because they are from a particular country or part of the world, because of ethnicity or accent, or because they appear to be of a certain ethnic background (even if they are not).

    https://www.eeoc.gov/national-origin-discrimination

    She might argue that she wasn’t aware you had a speech impediment, just an accent. Cover all your bases.

    Additionally, you may want to report this to the Immigration and Naturalization Service – they enforce the Immigration Reform and Control Act, which “further prohibits employment discrimination because of national origin against US citizens, US nationals, and authorized aliens” (Association for Academic Surgery, 2021). This may be your sole option; Title VII and the ADA only apply to employers with at least 15 employees, but IRCA’s threshold is just 4.

    1. Properlike*

      Yes to all of this.

      You can’t be the only person she’s done this to. I’m enraged on your behalf!

    2. Pennyworth*

      Land as much grief on her plate as you can. You can’t change the way she thinks, but she might learn to keep her thoughts to herself.

      1. BellaStella*

        OP1, I agree here with Pennyworth and Properlike and The Unionizer Bunny. i would find the email of the HR director, CEO, and COO. Email them, citing the legal aspects if relevant as noted above. And I would phrase it as noted in the response: “I want to share with you why I’m withdrawing from this hiring process and hope this is not how you want your interviewers treating people with disabilities.” I would also add: “Manager (name) mocking people is a very poor indicator of your company culture. How this behaviour can be tolerated reflects poorly on all of the leadership. Perhaps you should consider speaking to their reports, to ensure they are not being treated unfairly or illegally discriminated against, too.”

        1. BellaStella*

          PS, I am so so so sorry this happened to you. I really hope the manager who did this steps on a lego every day for the rest of their life.

        2. The Unionizer Bunny*

          I would phrase it as noted in the response: “I want to share with you why I’m withdrawing from this hiring process and hope this is not how you want your interviewers treating people with disabilities.”

          I’m not sure withdrawing is the best move here. I would ask LW1 whether this was a company they wanted to work for before they met this one hiring manager; if the interviewer was an outlier in the company’s culture, then LW1 doesn’t want to withdraw their candidacy, but would prefer to see the company get rid of their unqualified hiring manager. If the company is fine with that kind of behavior, then this is information worth knowing (not just to help LW1 decide whether to work there, but for ease of proving discrimination if filing a complaint).

          Compare with a wrongful termination suit – except for extreme circumstances, a 15-day notice period may be required before claiming constructive dismissal (where the company has a chance to resolve the problem before you can say they effectively fired you). Employers love when people with a discrimination claim simply quit (it’s why they’ll make work difficult and uncomfortable for someone who might have a claim, or even who just talks about workers having rights – those people are liabilities, and pressuring them to leave on their own reduces potential payouts), it means being ineligible for UI and unable to say they were terminated because they weren’t fired, they wanted to leave.

          LW1: if you withdraw yourself from consideration for the position, the company’s attorneys might argue that there couldn’t have been discrimination in hiring because the company never decided whether to hire you. They may even say they wanted to hire you (and the hiring manager’s opinion wouldn’t have outweighed the rest of the hiring team’s), but their application process won’t allow you to re-enter the line where you left. An employer would even have a reasonable concern about hiring someone who takes irreversible actions instead of notifying the “conscientious” H.R. personnel who would swiftly take action to address it. Not as a litigation risk (“isolated incidents of harassment generally do not violate federal law”), but as a longevity risk (all that onboarding for someone who doesn’t want to work there anymore the moment something isn’t perfect, instead of working with the company to improve their culture). If the company has previously handled harassment reports internally, they can trot those out as historical monuments to their ability to promptly resolve complaints in a way that allowed their employees to continue working there. So even if you got back in line at your old spot, they could throw their hiring manager under the bus to show they “did something” and paint you as less qualified in a different way.

          Stay the course. Let the company end your application. Make them reveal their discrimination. There’s a chance the company says “We had already been investigating this hiring manager due to previous complaints and none of her decisions were final, they were all subject to review. The person who decided to not hire you was kept insulated from the interview process (only seeing your qualifications on paper) and never spoke with your hiring manager, so this decision could not have been influenced by knowledge of your accent.” – to make that more difficult, send a letter to everyone in H.R. (who you know how to reach) describing your experience, expressing how you hope this behavior is not representative of the company’s culture, and asking them what their experience has been. Since companies can intercept their employees’ mail (per USPS mail is “delivered” when it reaches the workplace, and employers may legally open even personal mail directed to employees), go through LinkedIn (or whatever other social network you can search by “employer” in) and save everything. (Print out profiles to show they were working for H.R. at that company before ordered to lock down their social media pages. Print out messages in case they disappear when the destination account is deleted.) Be more careful/strategic about GlassDoor; putting them on the defensive right away may put them in more of an adversarial mindset, when you want them to just get rid of the obstacle to working there.

          Don’t contact literally everyone in H.R., you want them to still have an unbiased/objective interviewer on staff.

          1. Bellis Coldwine*

            While I appreciate your ingenuity, I think it’s misplaced for LW1, who described the company as a red flag miasma quite apart from this incident. That’s way more energy than I can imagine putting in for a company I wouldn’t work for under any circumstances.

            Also, by withdrawing while giving feedback, there’s less chance that the LW’s extremely justified rancor would be dismissed as sour grapes if they weren’t offered the position.

            1. The Unionizer Bunny*

              (This is long. I’m trying to add information that will be useful to future readers whose situations isn’t exactly the same as LW1’s, and also to give LW1 something useful.)

              That’s way more energy than I can imagine putting in for a company I wouldn’t work for under any circumstances.

              I’d change my question for LW1, then, to “What do you want out of this encounter?”

              If it’s just to warn others away, GlassDoor it is.

              But for “filing a discrimination complaint” (with the EEOC, the agency enforcing Title VII), the hiring manager’s response to LW1’s accent only gives evidence of intent – there still has to be an employment action during hiring, or so I gather from the list of significant cases:
              https://www.eeoc.gov/initiatives/e-race/significant-eeoc-racecolor-casescovering-private-and-federal-sectors#hiring

              They only take several dozen cases each year, though. The problem with looking at the tens of thousands of private cases is that settlements tend to be confidential and the company will seek a clause of not admitting to any wrongdoing, so for most of the cases we don’t know the details or whether the company thought there was any merit. So precedent can be hard to track down. An experienced employment attorney is your best bet.

              Is it even employment discrimination if LW1 hasn’t been hired yet? Applicants are covered, so conduct in an interview is counted – but harassment alone, a single instance of it, might not amount to enough. And if the red flags are that plentiful, other candidates may have already withdrawn – so LW1 should consider the risk of being offered the position. Turning it down won’t create the basis for a complaint. Taking the job just long enough to gather evidence would mean giving the company access to (in the U.S.) a Social Security Number, which offers the miasma-shrouded company power to harass LW1 afterwards. Is that worth it? Depends on what LW1 is weighing it against.

              An attorney with relevant experience will have hard numbers, or at least a formula: how much can LW1 realistically expect to get (in damages) if the red flags already present are still there once work begins? An attorney will also be able to advise on how withdrawing the application will affect a potential case. Are there good local attorneys who offer a free consultation or will LW1 need to shell out a few hundred to find out whether their case would be worth taking? (Employment attorneys commonly work on contingency, taking a fraction of the award.) Is there any history of the company settling complaints? Dragging complaints out in court? A good local attorney will know, or be able to find out. I’m only seeing “EEO training” available as a remedy for federal agencies, though, not private employers. Your attorney will know more than I do.

    3. CL*

      FYI, Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) no longer exists. This function is part of the Department of Justice whereas most other functions are under the Department of Homeland Security (USCIS and ICE).

  10. Usually difficult systems, not difficult children*

    #2 in addition to the fact that it is no one’s business how you conceived (plenty of couples and singles of varying stripes do this all the time) I must say that I really dislike the term “difficult child”. Having represented children in abuse and neglect cases, and being neurodivergent myself, I can say that the issue in raising neurodivergent children is not, generally, that the child is “difficult”. It is ignorance on the parents’ part as to what to do, ignorance or unwillingness of the school system, lack of diagnosis, society in general being made for neurotypical people, etc etc. Except the occasional fire-starter/cruel to animals child who does these behaviors with no abuse or neglect, which in my experience is rare, but happens, I would like to say, IMHO, children who learn differently or are socially different are not by definition “difficult.”

    In the case of severe disability, certainly it can be difficult to caregive a severely disabled child, no matter the disability, but even then, I would just like to put in a plug for the idea that the child is not “difficult”. The situation is. Gentleness with ourselves, to me, includes not describing our childhood selves as difficult because we are different. Even if we rebelled, acted out, what have you. I just don’t think, except for very rare cases, there is such a thing as a “difficult” child. Just my opinion.

    1. Gamer Girl*

      Cosigned. As a fellow neurodivergent, please be kind to yourself. You are not broken, society is. And if your parents constantly told you that you are difficult, then they are the problem, not you. All children are difficult in some way. Neurodivergent kids differences present in ways that are outside the bell curve, but for the record, they are awesome. I don’t know what I’d do without mine. We are all weird, quirky people, and that is more than ok with me!

      Being autistic and ADHD is not a disease. Your letter directly follows another about a person being discriminated against because of their speech–their perceived speech! We can see, across the board, how very wrong that is. Please consider that you and your parents have been taught to discriminate against yourselves by internalizing the eugenicist nature of science and, by extension, society. And just, you know, be kind to yourself!

      1. AuDHD*

        THIS! Also, I suspect from my own experiences that neurodivergence is much more common and varied than diagnoses reflect — a diagnosis is really only something we get when we need support, and plenty of us get on just fine on our own or with our friends and family support system. Having a baby this way is not going to guarantee a neurotypical child.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          That and unless the donor explicitly diagnosed a condition, or you all did genetic testing for it (which, highly recommend), you generally don’t know if a certain thing runs in the donor’s family or if the donor has it themselves. Some banks do questionnaires about medical history but it’s super generic questions like “have you ever had surgery”. It asks if your parents/grandparents/siblings are alive and if not what they died from. I’ve looked at TONS of these from my own fertility-care experience and you’re gonna find out if the donor’s family had heart attacks or cancer, nothing else. Even then, it’s also self-reported. There’s no verifying. I know I’m veering far off from the work aspect of this, but when LW mentioned their reasons behind using donors my knee jerk was that’s not actually a way to ensure your kid doesn’t have any particular condition. Unless it’s a condition tied to a known gene, and both you and the donor are negative for said gene. That leaves PLENTY of unknowns, not just about whether the kid will be neurotypical but plenty of other medical things.

          1. Letter Writer #3*

            I know that I’m not going to rule out everything. But the clinic I will be using does do genetic tests for many conditions and I know that my kind won’t have /my/ kind of brain. That’s enough for me.

            I have done my research. In the nicest possible way, I wrote in for advice about work and I’m okay with the decision I’ve made. I know that I can’t protect against everything and I’ve accepted that. But what I can do, I will.

      2. Varthema*

        This! I also found the “difficult child” mention stung, and also made me deeply sad. I think my own neurodivergence has made me a more sensitive parent to my neurodivergent children. I might struggle raising neurotypical kids, actually. (And I’m sure it’s occurred to you, but with the rate of underdiagnosis in adults today, there’s a high chance your donor sperm and egg might carry neurodivergent genes as well, beknownst or unbeknownst to the donor.)

        That said, your reproductive choices are totally your own! There are plenty of people out there uninterested in passing down their genetic material. And I agree with others that you can probably just not mention it, go with “donor sperm” and “It’s all a bit dull, wouldn’t want to bore you with the whole story, how’s your day going?” and everyone will assume kid takes after the donor XY. (If you wanted to be feisty, you could say “I’ll tell you my conception story in detail if you tell me yours” XD )

        1. Katherine*

          I personally find my neurotypical extroverted child more challenging. Can’t we just do some parallel play where you do your thing and I do my thing and we like just quietly vibe together? No, we must have active engagement at all times.

      3. Letter Writer #3*

        I know I’m not broken. I don’t consider myself to be broken. However, I do feel that I was difficult. It was hard to be my parent. I was not a ‘weird, quirky person’ nor was I ‘awesome’ to raise. I was a child who was deeply emotionally dysregulated and had challenging behaviours but who slipped through the cracks because I could front a normal appearence at school and not at home and that left the burden of raising me on someone who loved me but battled to understand me.

        I find that language patronising (not from you) but from the numerous educators about ‘neurodiversity’ and the incessant training given in my workplaces. I’m not awesome because my brain is fundamentally wired in a way that makes living in a society exceedingly difficult.

        My conditions are not diseases but they are challenging and bring me challenging behaviours that I have to choose to embrace or actively work against. They make my life actively harder and more expensive and more complicated. I want to acknowledge that and not just ‘you’re awesome, ADHDer!” or “My NeuroSpicy Self!” my way through life because that’s not how I approach my brain, life, or conditions.

        1. The Unionizer Bunny*

          I’m not awesome because my brain is fundamentally wired in a way that makes living in a society exceedingly difficult.

          Have you come across the “social model of disability”?
          https://www.inclusionlondon.org.uk/about-us/disability-in-london/social-model/the-social-model-of-disability-and-the-cultural-model-of-deafness/
          It says that your life isn’t difficult because of how your brain is wired relative to society, but how society is wired relative to you.

          Society should be giving more support to parents, including “how to raise children” methods that doesn’t focus on a homogeneous view of what all children should be like or what kind of life children should be raised for. Industrialized society is all too willing to design systems that harm, and filter out, people who might some day become “troublemakers” (vs profit-makers).

          This continues in the workplace. Tools made to enable disabled people to carry out common life tasks often have the benefit of reducing time/difficulty for other people, too – but when people begin thinking of their difficulties as collective problems (not individual challenges to be toughed out), they look for ways to work together making it easier for everyone. And then, later on, they’ll find it easier to recognize other collective problems and cooperate to resolve it again. Often a modern workplace clings to ineffective practices, and the people in charge are afraid workers will think the people in charge are outdated. (Imposter Syndrome strikes everywhere.) Bosses who can adapt are able to ride that wave, bosses who fear they’re becoming obsolete try to stem the tide. That’s when people organizing for change become “troublemakers”. The trouble is not inherent to collective improvement of work or society, it’s a label applied by people who don’t want to lose a culture built around their comfort and convenience. The “troublemakers” are profit-makers, or would be if society didn’t have systems/bosses standing in the way of removing the barriers to living and working.

          I wish hiring managers who see “this person is going to have challenges in the workplace” would think “I wonder how much easier everyone’s job will be after we bring in their perspective on the problems we were internalizing and accepting”.

          1. Letter Writer #3*

            I have seen this. And I genuinely think that a lot of it is true.

            But what a lot of people in this particular thread have missed is that yes, my life could have been easier with more funding and more support but also, it was still hard. It was still hard to be me. No amount of therapy or therapy dogs or whatever would have made it not hard to just live my life and exist in this body and brain. Saying that it is the world around me that is the problem is undermining my lived experience that has been going for a good few decades now and downplays the idea that disability is a negative thing that can cause deep issues and suffering for people who don’t have a choice.

            I know my brain is wired wrong. I can feel it is wired wrong. Things are connected that I don’t want to be and I can’t break the connections because that’s just how my brain sees the world. For examples, I know that the scent of almonds should not make me emotionally distressed (but it does which makes biscotti the worst thing in the world) but it does. I’m not going therapy my way out of that. I know that eating greens is healthy but ARFID is the absolute worst and every single bite of greens has been hardwon for decades (I eat ’em for my bones and not for pleasure. It shows) because I learned to eat them but I don’t enjoy them no matter how many times I go to cooking classes. I have felt lonely and isolated because I could not understand the world and that doesn’t change the fact I can’t force people to be friends with me and meet me where I am. I can offer but I can’t force.

            A lot of this thread is people going, “how you perceive your disability is negative and that hurts me” or “i find the way you express your feelings to be inconsistent with how I want you to feel about it,” like the person who said that we’re just ‘weird, quirky people’. I am not a ‘weird, quirky’ person. That downplays the severity of what my condition does to me and how I interact with my world. I am okay with acknowledging that I can be weird and quirky in a way that is acceptable and also, that I am often not fit for human interaction. I’ve come to accept it and to think of that part of myself as the part of me that is no less important but it needs to be kept carefully regulated and given space when needed.

            1. Elle*

              All of this. I have mixed feelings about recent trends in how we talk about neurodiversity as it is, but I’ve literally been to an event at work about that topic and had someone make a huge, attention-attracting deal about how I’m not eating (ARFID: you really can’t therapy your way out of it!).

              We get to make our own decisions, whether that’s not having a biological child or using a term other people don’t like to describe ourselves.

            2. The Unionizer Bunny*

              Disclaimer: I’m writing close to the edge of union-adjacent theory. It’s a lot of half-informed guesses about what might be relevant to LW3, but I’m not confident it will be insightful or even helpful. I hope some of it will be.

              Society is pro-extrovert, or at least, its public image is that of interaction. Employers have “face-time”, where they judge your productivity by how many hours you are in the office despite having access to far better measurements. Studies of empathy have found it strongly present in comparatively powerless people, and absent in people who have power over others – the theory is that developing our ability to understand others is motivated by needing to appease their mysterious whims. I don’t know how close that is to needing to play by the exacting rules of your own mind, but I might observe that employers can have enough power over us to “force” us to meet them at a workplace and act like best friends even when we’re abused (lest we be flagged as “insubordinate”). Even then, being yelled at doesn’t help us predict what they want – we can be there physically but not meet them mentally. Empathy is our practice at understanding, but not what brings us understanding. Difficulty understanding others means “learning how to sympathize” with others in the same situation. Non-empathic bosses think “there are two kinds of people: those who already understand me, and lazy/evil people I won’t waste any time with”. They have the power; they don’t need to learn how to figure out why someone doesn’t understand them, or how to work with people in the second group. How do bosses with high empathy acquire that skill? Does an empathy-cultivating background require exposure to abusive people wielding power over us? Your description of having to suffer contraints imposed by your own mind doesn’t sound better, sadly.

              Physical impairments (like arthritis) can frustrate simple tasks like “open an egg”. The comments section for a tool to “crack open eggs” may be full of scornful “Who even NEEDS this? Lazy people?”, but people who can crack open an egg in two seconds don’t need to handle a several-minute struggle of trying to crack one open without injuring their hand or spilling what’s inside. People who were merely “not good” at preparing eggs also benefitted from the tools. Arthritis (and hand injuries) are not a matter of perspective, no amount of positive thinking will relieve them. But the tools made by/for people with arthritis can still end up improving the life of people who don’t need it.

              Society encourages managers to think “they don’t understand me, so they can’t work here” – perhaps the effort itself (consciously practicing empathy when our initial response is “there’s no point in thinking twice about this”) can benefit others. Why does society stigmatize “this person is the kind I don’t understand” when learning how to compromise would make many managers into better managers?

              UK stores use “mosquito” sounds, audible only to teenagers because older folks can’t hear that frequency anymore, to make the vicinity uncomfortable for an undesirable demographic. Similar structural changes include making benches impossible to sleep on even if people who didn’t want to sleep there also can’t comfortably sit there. Nothing about “sitting” or “sleeping” or “being homeless” or “having an undamaged and unimpaired sense of hearing” is a disability. Society creates higher barriers for those demographics, though.

              Cochlear implants, eye surgery – some disabilities can realistically be considered a choice. Many can’t, and society still enhanced the impact. Adjusting society can reduce that impact even regardless of what model best describes a disabled person’s mindset. Something is wrong (with mind/body), and someone who is more sensitive to society’s “hostile architecture” can identify what the rest of us have become numb to.

              The world around us is not the entire problem – and the problems are unlikely to ever completely go away, for anyone (though not for lack of bosses trying), because our society even at its best has to find a compromise between different kinds of people – but our society can amplify problems, and resonate, making the problems worse than they have to be.

              You may have problems that are not affected at all by the world, but you’d be an outlier, then, overlooked amid mass outreach to all the people whose quality of life can be improved by abandoning an “I’m broken” mindset that doesn’t fit their situation. Someone whose lived experience was once identical to yours may remember when they shared your beliefs, and not credit that you won’t someday “see the light” like they did.

            3. Scrimp*

              Hi LW3, I want to apologise; I made a rather judgy comment about you in reply to Difficult Systems and after I read your reply I realised I really, really should not have done that. I understand your reasons a lot better now, and they make sense to me, but I shouldn’t have been judgy regardless.

              I hope everything works out for you the way you hope it does.

    2. Mom2ASD*

      Indeed – as the Mom to a young adult on the autism spectrum, I can categorically say that my kiddo was not the difficulty at all, in his education. I mean, I’m biased, but it was pretty clear that as long as his needs were met, he was a model student. Teachers that followed his IEP has no issues. Ones that didn’t – well, they quickly learned.

      While the OP has decided to go a different route due to their concerns about heredity, I just wanted to reassure them that their child – whether biologically related or not – will be just fine, with a parent who cares so much about their well-being.

      Finally, I know that my ASD kid would not trade the benefits to be rid of his ASD – he values who he is. He has told me exactly that – he knows that his intelligence goes hand in hand with his diagnosis. Do consider that your child may value having things in common with you, even if there are challenges that go along with that.

      1. Letter Writer #3*

        I’ve had a lot of frank conversations with my mother. We both agree, on the balance of things, I was difficult as a child. It wasn’t the education or the battling schools or the medical stuff – that was complicated. But I was difficult. I was unpleasant, and rude, and like often handling a live firework – going to explode for sure, but now, in five minutes, or an hour… hard to tell.

        We’ve come to terms with that. I am good at what I do – I make people laugh, I write, I’ve been published, I have a good job, I am a competent human who has hit milestone after milestone successfully and that’s important to note and I’m proud of myself – but the journey to get here has been… a rough ride.

        I don’t know that I would take away my ASD. I’ve never known anything different. But I know that if someone handed me a baby and said, “You can give them your ASD or you can choose not to”… I wouldn’t give them it.

        My sibling has a similar version to me. They’ve bounced from job to job, destroying bridges and their reputation in the process in an industry where people talk, has bad social issues and anger, battles a hording problem, and is probably never going to have a family. They’re content with their special interest and burning all of their money into it but… that’s also not a life I want for my child, ASD or otherwise.

        But I appreciate your reassurance. I genuinely love that your kid is so positive about his ASD. It’s a great thing to be so self assured as a child – you’re clearly doing good things there, too.

    3. dogwoodblossom*

      Yes to this and also, I get not wanting to pass on your genes/family line cause both sides of my family are a shitshow on multiple levels. But your kid not being genetically yours doesn’t guarantee they won’t be nuerodivergent, or have some other disability.

      1. Michigander*

        Yes, I’m assuming the LW already knows this, but picking a donor egg and sperm doesn’t mean your child might not be autistic or have a disability. Maybe there’s a lesser chance if there’s no family history, but you have no guarantees on what kind of child you’ll have. There’s really no way to prepare for all of the potential complications of having kids, unfortunately.

      2. Letter Writer #3*

        @dogwoodblossom, that’s true. I know there’s no one hundred percent way to make them not like me or to have another disability. But also, if I can remove some of the chance that they will end up with my specific brand of neurodiverse, I’ll be happy. I can’t predict the future – all I can do is take steps to help them before they’re even here.

    4. Letter Writer #3*

      I want to reply to this specially because perhaps this is an example of an outsider to one specific situation looking in versus someone speaking out using language that means something to them.

      It’s not a bad term for me (as Gamer Girl below says) and it’s not one I’ve chosen to use because I’m critical and self-hating. I use the term difficult because it reflects, accurately, my perspective and my mother’s as well. I was a difficult child. It was difficult to /be/ me as a child, never mind raise me into a competent adult. I do not consider it a critique to say it. It was a lot of hard work on the part of my single parent who worked long hours and battled many conditions of her own. I was a child who needed a lot of work to understand basics of social skills, who thrived on a diet of books but who struggled to do anything with people, who could turn on a coin to lash out because I was emotionally very unregulated and highly anxious at all times, but who also needed a lot of emotional support that could only be delivered on my time and when I was ready despite often needing it ‘in the moment’. I didn’t know what I needed so it was like trying to speedrun parenthood on hard mode. Socially, I did not understand many things and emotionally, I did not understand or feel capable of processing them for decades.

      I want to say this as nicely as possible, I lived that experience. I felt that. I’m not saying the word because I feel that others have told me it for so long, I’ve internalised it (in fact, they’ve tried to do the opposite). I’ve chosen to accept that as a descriptor for what it was like for me. I was a challenging child with a lot of challenging behaviours. I’m not afraid to say that ‘difficult’ is a word that accurately describes me.

      It’s hard to climb a mountain, no matter how much support or funding you have. It can be exciting or gruelling or a nice day out or the worst misadventure of your life, sometimes, all in the same mountain climbing trip. But it doesn’t make it not difficult. No amount of lessons or one to one support or additional funding would have changed the fact it was hard to be me and harder to be my parent. She doesn’t love me any less – we are very close now, and support each other financially and emotionally. I am grateful for what she did and I am glad she made most of the choices she did.

      But I don’t like the idea of someone taking away how I choose to describe myself, and my upbringing because that one word is unkind to them, when it accurately describes to me how I feel about me and my childhood.

      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        People do like to wave away unpleasant facts.

        I’m deeply autistic (a hermit Aspie) and it runs on both sides of my family, so v likely genetic. I do wish I wasn’t an Aspie, because it caused me to screw up my most important relationships through ignorance of NT needs. In particular, it took me until my late 50s – after her death – to realise the support my mother had needed from me in her long lonely widowhood, as her sole child who reached adulthood and in a land she wasn’t born in.
        I feel the guilt/regret nearly 15 years later of not understanding her desperation, but I try not to dwell on it.
        So I completely understand that an autistic person who wants a kid (I didn’t) could choose to try to avoid having a mini-me.

      2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        Oh and I see my comment is in moderation, probably because as a fellow autistic person I agreed with you, but those disagreeing seem to have come through the filter without delay.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          Not every comment goes through the moderation filter; there’s no design to which viewpoints go through moderation first and which don’t; it’s based on keywords and whatever choices the moderation software is making that day. That said, “autism” does trigger comments for review, because of people’s unfortunate tendency to armchair diagnose at the slightest whiff of out-of-the norm behavior. And if I’m sleeping or offline, there is a longer wait for things to be released.

        2. Rain*

          This is a pretty uncharitable accusation to make, especially given Alison’s track record of transparency around moderation.

      3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        I wish I weren’t autistic, far more than I wish I hadn’t been born with my visual disability.
        It’s not because of discrimination – I suffered multiple racist attacks & insults in my youth but I’ve never wished to have been born white. My wish is because my autism caused actual harm to me and to others I love.
        No amount of feelgood slogans or wishful thinking can handwave away some problems and consequences.

      4. Disability can be social and real*

        Thanks for responding to that comment. I’m a big believer in the social model of disability, *and* as a late-diagnosed ND person with at least one ND kid, I can acknowledge that it’s still a disability in a lot of ways and makes a lot of aspects of life more difficult. No less meaningful, important, or valuable, but it’s objectively harder to do certain things. In a completely different environment these things might be less of a barrier or less noticeable, but it’s just a fact that my brain reacts/overreacts in ways that other people’s (like my husband’s) don’t. My internal life (and my kid’s) is more volatile and it takes a lot more work to keep us balanced and functional.

      5. Me (I think)*

        LW3, thank you for this. Our child is neurodivergent, and I feel you have described the experience of raising them from their point of view (and ours.) “Parenthood on Hard Mode” is pretty succinct and accurate.

      6. ferrina*

        I hear that. By that definition, I was very much a difficult child. I am very ADHD, but also very intelligent and academically gifted. It was a tough combination. I wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD until I was an adult- it was never even a conversation. But the constant need for stimulation and the BIG FEELINGS were ever-present as a kid. School was awful, my parents were constantly frustrated with me, I was constantly frustrated with me, etc. There was also family trauma and abuse, so that made it extra rough. I don’t wish my childhood on anyone.

        I have biological children. One of my kids is the polar opposite of me- mellow, calm, happy to take life as it comes, but also has difficulty making close friends. One kid is almost exactly me- high energy, high stimulation needs, BIG FEELINGS, and also very charismatic and a natural leader (seeing my kid not realize what a natural leader they are makes me realize how much I overlooked my own talents.) I can see where they will both struggle and are struggling, and as a parent, it’s really tough.
        On the flip side, my mom’s personality as a child was the exact opposite of mine. She didn’t understand me or my perspective, and it was frustrating for both of us. She had been a quiet kid, very shy and respectful of authority. I….was not. She constantly called me “weird” (she meant it in a joking loving way, but it still hurt). She had no clue how to support me, because she thought I just needed to “try harder” and that I was deliberately flaunting expectations. It was awful for both of us. Then again, my mom isn’t a very empathetic person to begin with.

        All that to say- OP, sounds like you’ve put a lot of thought into this! No one else is entitled to the Why or Wherefore. Being a parent is tough no matter how you do it, but it’s different kinds of tough, and you never know what kind of interesting scenarios you’ll find yourself in. Best of luck to you!!

      7. Paint N Drip*

        Very cool, OP3. Totally appreciate the work you’ve done on yourself to come to this place and I can’t say I’m not impressed! I think our childhoods were similar in many ways. I hope you grow up to be as self-assured as you

      8. Lucien Nova, Disappointing Australian*

        LW3, I just want to thank you for this.

        You have plainly worded something that’s bounced around in my brain for…as long as I could think, probably? Not only was I also a difficult child to raise (autism + ADHD) – I also found it difficult to be myself.

        I’ve always known I have had one horrifically miswired brain. I’ve always known there is nothing I can do about that fact, and I’ve always done what I can to try and get around it. For the most part I’d say I probably succeeded. But seeing your words today…I guess I came to a realisation that no one’s ever really…taken the time to find out what it was like for me when I was growing up, I suppose? It was difficult for all of us, my parents, my sisters, any adults and even other kids who had to interact with me – but for me? No. No one’s ever acknowledged, even myself, that I found it difficult just to exist in my own body because my brain just likes to Not.

        I needed this, LW3. Thank you. Genuinely. I really needed this.

        And as another former difficult child, all the best to you.

    5. Part time lab tech*

      As the parent of two children, one of whom is “difficult” and one of whom is average difficult, I find the notion of all children being an equal level of difficult incredibly idealistic. Both my children have their strengths and weakness, we love them both. Some of the reason is a temperament mismatch which isn’t anyone’s fault.
      It is incredibly judgemental and naive to say a child with poor impulse control and fight or flights in less than a second and cannot be calmed for over an hour is just as easy as the child that can self reflect from early primary school and has never been the subject of a phone call from the associate principal.
      Both my children have a good chance of growing into responsible, caring young men. But one of them is going to have a harder time getting there.

      1. Katie*

        Ugh. Thank you. As a parent of two special needs kids and one who is not, it’s a lot more wore work for the special needs kids. They are… difficult. I can’t pretend that they are not. It’s extremely judgemental to believe otherwise.

        Being difficult doesn’t equal that the I’d is bad.

      2. BethDH*

        Underscoring your point about a “temperament match” because that was so well phrased. When my sister was adopting, she and her spouse had to be really honest with themselves and each other about what kinds of additional needs a child had that they could in good faith commit to supporting given their own physical limitations and emotional triggers.
        It wasn’t searching for an “undifficult” child but rather recognizing that they were equipped to handle certain kinds of challenges better than others and they didn’t want their personalities to add to that child’s burden.

      3. Trout 'Waver*

        I only have one kid, who I take care of by myself. He is the easiest kid I’ve ever seen. Like Part time lab tech says about their kids, he’s got his strengths and weaknesses. But he’s got a sunny disposition and gets over problems and challenges in minutes. He’s social and engaged with the world around him. I’ve been around enough kids to know I’m parenting on easy mode. He’s always been like this, even as an infant, so I don’t think its my parenting ability on display. I know his next phase will bring new challenges and this could all change.

        I agree that it is disingenuous to suggest that all kids are equally easy or challenging.

    6. Aqua*

      You are making a really kind point and I’m not looking forward to reading tens of comments about “why disabled children are actually difficult” and “here’s all the ways my particular child is difficult” and “I love my kid (but wow it sucks to have a disabled child)”.

      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        It sucks to be that child and then adult, but apparently I’m not allowed to say that here.

      2. A Book about Metals*

        Yes but in this case the LW themselves is saying that, so why would we discount her perspective. It’s tangential anyway – the interviewer was disgusting, period.

      3. Part time lab tech*

        “Difficult” literally means hard, takes more effort.
        It does not mean it unrewarding or regretted.
        Letter Writer #3*’s comparison to climbing a mountain is a good one (vs walking a coastal plain for example).

        1. Rebecca*

          In that analogy, the mountain is difficult, not the climber. I was a child who had difficulties, and now I’m an adult who has difficulties. *I* am not and was not difficult, however.

          1. Letter Writer #3*

            Okay, we have a different opinion on this. For me, I was a difficult child. Supremely difficult. I’m a much better human when I’ve been aged several decades than when I was still new and shiny. I can promise you that.

      4. Allonge*

        Difficult does not mean the child is a bad person, at fault for the situation or they should be unloved. Difficult means it’s harder for them and with them. If we cannot use this word, that is incredibly invalidating for parents and children who are in this situation.

        1. ferrina*

          I was a difficult kid. Many of the adults around me used “difficult” as a euphemism for “bad”. I was told that I was difficult to be around and that I needed to be grateful for my friends even when they treated me badly (because I was so difficult to be friends with- who would even want to be friends with me? I should take what I can get, because I don’t deserve any better). I came out of childhood feeling like a perpetual burden who didn’t deserve nice things because I was such a bother. A lot of therapy was needed as an adult.

          As a parent, I get it. I’ve got a kid that is on Easy Mode and a kid that is on Hard Mode. One of my friends has kids that are on Extra, Extra Hard Mode.

          The struggle is that for kids, they are self-centered. Not in a bad way, but through biological programming- kids focus on their needs and their world, not on the needs/world of adults. Many kids don’t fully develop the empathetic part of their brain until late adolescence. Kids don’t understand the concept of “you are difficult, but it’s not personal”. That just doesn’t make sense to them (or even to many adults). The framing for the kids should be “this immediate situation that you are facing is difficult” or “the world isn’t built for your quirk, so this thing may be more difficult for you than for others” or even “this isn’t a natural skill, so you’ll need to work more than others to build it up” (same way you would frame a sports skill or a musical skill or an academic skill).
          When the kid is well out of earshot, that is when you can empathize with the parents about the kid’s difficulty setting.

          1. Allonge*

            Oh, I am so sorry, I did not mean to imply that the child should be called difficult to their face!

      5. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Yeah, “difficult” almost always seems to be from the perspective of the parent, not the child. In this case, LW had a difficult childhood from their own perspective and that’s important to acknowledge, but we have to be real that most of the time when people talk about “difficult” kids, it’s not actually about the challenges the kids face as it is on the impact of the parents.

        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          That should say impact ON the parents. It’s about weighing their needs and support over that of the child.

        2. Allonge*

          So: yes, and if someone chooses not to claim that term later, that is perfectly fine. But difficulty for the parents (and let’s not kid ourselves, in most cases carried by the mother) is something that needs to have a word for it.

          Yes, the child should be the focus and have priority, but we are not going to achieve that by denying that it’s difficult for the parents.

          1. Aqua*

            The top level comment says literally that.
            “I would just like to put in a plug for the idea that the child is not “difficult”. The situation is.”

            And none of this is work advice. As a disabled person, it’s exhausting to see all the parents jumping to talk about how difficult their children are every time this comes up. As someone who has parented a disabled child, there were many things that were difficult, but *he* wasn’t difficult. Parenting is difficult.

    7. Rex Libris*

      The LW was referring to their self, specifically. People have a right to identify and describe themselves in language that is meaningful to them. I think explaining to them why they’re wrong when they do that is fairly presumptuous.

    8. Hyaline*

      Eh, as a former difficult child and parent of a difficult child–one, I prefer the term “challenging” and yes, I was challenging and my kiddo is challenging. We’re smart, we’re sensitive, we’re hyper-aware, we have strong sense of justice, we do not just go with the flow–we are not easy people. I happen to think these traits are also fantastic in a future adult human, but raising a kid with them is more challenging than a kid who is not sensitive, has a more easygoing personality, accepts situations easily, etc.

      I think it’s fine to say “my kid is challenging in these aspects” (to yourself! or your partner! or other close confidants, not, like, the world at large!) because it helps to recalibrate your approach and helps you not go insane believing your parenting is hugely lacking. No, your kid is NOT a bad kid, and you are not a bad parent, but they’re bringing extra challenges to the table and that is fair to acknowledge.

      That said, trying to control for that with genetics is…well…I think LW may well end up very surprised :D

    9. commensally*

      LW #3, to bring this back to work advice – especially if you have a lot of ND coworkers, unless you want to have this specific thread’s discussion over and over, if you do ever feel like you want/need to give a reason why the child isn’t genetically similar to you, I would recommend limiting your reasons to “I have some inherited disabilities that made it very risky for me to conceive naturally.”

      People can get really passionate about which disabilities it’s clearly a bad idea to pass on and which mean you’re an evil eugenicist, and they can also feel it as a heavy judgement on their own choices or their own existence. But if you just say it would have been risky for you to conceive they will be way more likely to respect your privacy on the details.

      2. Aerin*

        Yeah, this put my hackles up, so while it makes sense when you explain it, if you don’t have the opportunity and/or it’s not really inappropriate or necessary to get into it, it’s best to be vague. (“Oh, conceiving naturally wasn’t on the table” avoids the whole disability thing entirely and is extremely understandable–although it may be read by some as an invitation to get into their own experiences with conception, so it’s probably good to be aware of that. Nod sympathetically for a minute or so and then look for a chance to change the subject or exit.)

        I will say that as an elder millennial, I know that the education and support I had growing up, even undiagnosed, was miles beyond what some Gen Xers I know experienced. And the resources available today make my childhood look positively barbaric. Understanding of neurological differences is increasingly common, and most schools at least attempt to adjust the learning environment to the needs of each kid. (Of course, in a lot of places they say the right stuff but don’t have the resources to pull it off, and then there are the people who are just jerks.) More than that, this generation of children are infinitely more fluent than any generation that came before them in things like bodily autonomy, consent, sensory overload, overstimulation, hyperfocus, and other things that made me feel very othered as a kid. It’s not uncommon to see AuDHD-targeted accommodations like headphones or a calm and quiet space be made available to–and used by–all kinds of kids. There’s a lot of content, apps, and programs designed for parents and/or kids with ADHD/autism to understand and advocate for themselves better, or to figure out workarounds that they can manage on their own.

        Short version: myself and my siblings were all varying degrees of ASD and entirely undiagnosed until adulthood, and we struggled in different ways. My nephew is autistic, still mostly nonverbal at 6 years old and closed off around new people. But his life looks pretty normal, and my sister’s experience means she knows where he’s coming from and can adjust to that, instead of just telling him to suck it up and get through it like our parents basically did with us. Your kid isn’t doomed to experience the same upbringing that you did, because their world will be different than yours was and *you* will be different than your parents were.

        Whether or not you end up using donor eggs, it might be a good idea to do a bit of research into where things stand in your community. It’s bound to make you feel a bit better about the possibility of a kid needing those supports, and you might also find ways that you can get support for yourself as an ND parent. (Or it might reveal that you live in a community that sucks about this stuff, and you can feel even more secure about your decision to try and avoid it.)

      3. a clockwork lemon*

        This is, in fact, the case for me. I have a physical disability that’s mostly invisible but makes it pretty much impossible to safely carry a pregnancy to term. It comes up every so often organically because many of my coworkers have kids or pregnant spouses, so I usually just respond with a cheerful “Nope, wasn’t in the cards for me after my last surgery!” followed by a redirect back to whatever fun baby thing we were talking about originally.

        Not a single one of my coworkers have ever pushed back, although I thought it was a kindness when someone was like “well if you ever want to look into it, our benefits cover all sorts of alternatives” because that’s good information for everyone to know!

    10. Loose Socks*

      I have two disabled children, one has autism, and I myself have ADHD and autism. I grew up in a family with several autistic members, and I can tell you that my brother and I had a wonderful childhood with autism, not despite it. I currently homeschool my children now, and while autism and ADHD change the landscape, it is absolutely not bad at all. I think most people focus so hard on trying to do things the “normal” and end up making everything so much harder that it doesn’t even occur to them that “normal” people also tend to struggle with “normal” things. We don’t do school in classrooms, we usually go outside in the woods and do lessons out there. My seven year old is already on algebra and my daughter, 11, can read novels well above her reading level. We don’t limit screens because my daughter’s way of coping with over-stimulation is to listen to youtube documentaries, so as long as she does what she needs to do, she can have her tablet. Meals aren’t eaten at the table because of the stress of having people watch us eat is a problem, so we just take our food to wherever we want to eat. As long as everyone cleans up their area, it’s fine. We don’t do strict time limits unless absolutely necessary, and we respect each other’s triggers.

      Basically, when you have autism and you are raising autistic kids, you are at a significant advantage. It will definitely change your view on “difficult” children. Usually it’s the adults that are being difficult because they are mindlessly sticking to arbitrary rules that don’t provide any real benefit. Plus, there is so much more out there for us AuDHD people than there ever was before. My kids are living a completely different childhood than we had, a much more kind and accommodating one. We’ve even found a co-op that is autism-friendly that they love!

      OP, you were not a difficult child, and your “genetically normal” child will have their own struggles. It will probably be easier to relate to the struggles of an autistic child than a Neuro-Typical child because you were an autistic child once.

      1. Letter Writer #3*

        I mean this nicely and respectfully, please do not undermine or invalidate my experience.

        The words I chose to use were deliberate and my choice. I was a difficult child. I was rude, I was argumentative, dismissive, socially inept, and abjectly disinterested in playing by social rules. It is not me saying that ‘difficult’ is a bad word. It is how I choose to describe the part of my life where I was not a very successful human and a lot of it was by choice. No amount of coaching and therapy was going to make me appreciate that I could not walk away from conversations I didn’t like because all of that requires a willingness to change. That took about a decade to arrive on the scene and it was long overdue.

        I appreciate that you are raising your kids in a much better environment than you had and I love that you have a household that works for you. (Also, your daughter and I are clearly twins, I say with a true crime doco in the background.) And I love that you’ve managed to make a good thing out of all the negativity in your past about how they used to be treated.

        I just know that I don’t have those opportunities – homeschooling is not a thing where I live and will never be an option for me, for example. So I want to set them up for success now. They could still be neurospicy. We don’t know how these things happen and we don’t know how to make it ‘not’ occur in the brain.

        I like your perspective though. I’m going to keep hold of this comment.

    11. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      yes for sure. my daughter inherited my neurospiciness and was fairly easy to parent and a great kid. Honestly the hardest part about parenting a neuroatypical child was watching her embody the things I disliked most about myself. Had I not been worried about those things, it would have been a breeze. And we have bonded a lot now that she is a young adult on our similarities.

      She grew up in a different time than I did. She is solidly enmeshed with a group of neurospicy young adults who embrace the way the interact with the world and don’t apologize for it and don’t spend nearly the amount of time and energy masking as I did. Watching her has actually helped me heal some of my negative self-talk.

    12. Scrimp*

      There is also no guarantee that the LW’s child wouldn’t be autistic or have ADHD, or any other disability just because they used someone else’s gametes. The donors could well have some disability, it’s just that you won’t know about it.

      I mean I’m assuming there is some screening done, but a lot of things just won’t come up with recessive traits, or it mightbe that the disability is minor enough in the donor that they wouldn’t notice it. At least you know your family history with your own gametes.

  11. Observer*

    #2 – Unconventional baby choices.

    Alison is right – you don’t have to explain anything to anyone.

    A useful way to think about whether you want to share something personal with someone at work is this: If you need to do a lot of explaining the situation, you are probably not close enough that it makes sense to give the information that you need to explain. If you also worry about their reaction, you definitely don’t want to share with them, and they definitely don’t deserve the information.

    As for explaining a child who looks different from you, don’t even go there. Even in families where both parents are of the same racial / ethnic group, a child may look markedly different than either (or both) parents. And that’s especially true if there is a grandparent or two of a different ethnicity. Or even just some mixing a couple of generations back. Now add in that regardless of where the sperm and egg come from the bio dad could be of any race / ethnicity, and it would be pretty stupid and utterly weird for someone to jump to any conclusions about how you came to be the parent of this child.

    1. Nodramalama*

      Agree on all fronts. The only thing I wonder is if LW might want to have a prepared answer if nosy people start asking things like “are they adopted”

      1. Despachito*

        LW’s coworkers will see she is pregnant, so this is out of the table.

        Besides, it would be an extremely intrusive question regardless, and LW does not owe anyone any answer at all.

        I think she is overthinking it, and that there is a simple solution – you do not owe anyone at work any details so give them none (besides the obvious fact you are going to have a baby).
        The background LW describes would be interesting information if she was a friend but absolutely TMI if she was a coworker.

        1. Nodramalama*

          I was more thinking in tbe future to have a very simple answer down pat because although it’s an intrusive thing to ask, you would be surprised how many people feel comfortable doing so

            2. Nodramalama*

              Yes, but I would be prepared to say that, so LW isn’t caught off guard when it happens

              1. Despachito*

                I think this is something that you can legitimately be caught off-guard for, as is
                any other inappropriate question about someone’s intimacy that is no other people’s business.

                I cannot imagine asking such intrusive questions, and if I did, I would deserve whatever reaction it may incite, the person would absolutely not owe me an answer.

    2. allathian*

      Is there no ethnic profiling of donor eggs and sperm in the US? I’m in Finland, and here they attempt to ensure that the kid looks as much like as the parent(s) as possible. Granted, our non-white minorities are tiny, but…

      In Finland this discussion would not even come up because each child, no matter how they were conceived, has the objective right to know their parentage as an adult, so it’s no longer possible to be an anonymous donor. I’d say that’s just as well, given how easy it is to get your own genetic profile these days.

      1. TROI*

        You are able to get “profiled” eggs and embryos in the US, but not everyone is interested in making decisions based on that information. There are also eggs and embryos that do not have that information attached to them, mainly through private donation.

      2. Letter Writer #3*

        There is some profiling, but you don’t get to request specifics if you are using donor embryos. You have the choice to wait for someone else to donate (maybe) or you can take what the clinic has now for sure and that includes mixed raced couples etc.

        1. DD*

          I left a longer comment above, which I think might be lost in the crush, but in deciding to become a mixed-race family there is more to it than deciding that you can love a baby of any race. You mentioned above being a white parent in a white-centric community so this is as important a part of the prep process as figuring out the supports and backups for the single-parent part. You’ll find a lot of articles and materials when you look up transracial adoption; particularly useful are articles written by adults who were adopted transracially as children.

      3. metadata minion*

        There definitely is some for donor gametes. I remember advertisements in my college’s newspaper looking for people to donate eggs, and it was really creepily eugenics-y.

    3. Brain the Brian*

      Agreed completely. Coworkers are not owed any explanation about how your baby was conceived — zero, zip, zilch. I was conceived via donor IVF, and my mother didn’t even tell the two women in her immediate department who were pregnant at the exact same time as her (in fact, decades later, she still hasn’t told anyone outside our immediate family). My parents didn’t even tell *me* I was donor-conceived until I was in my 20s, and at that point it was purely for family medical history reasons. (I’d humbly suggest that you tell your child sooner than that — but that is *your* decision to make, no one else’s, so don’t feel like you need to take my advice.)

      If nosy coworkers start asking questions, you can simply say that you are thrilled to be having this baby and raising this child. If they keep pressing, report them to HR for harassment.

    4. Kjinsea*

      As the parent to a kid with Albinism, yeah, kids can look really different than their parents…. I (red head) had my white blond, super fair child with my husband who is from Portugal and has wild, curly black hair and dark skin. We sometimes get odd looks, but that is the worst of it

  12. Myrin*

    I’m so aghast at #1, I don’t even really know what to say. What an outstandingly awful person! Like seriously, how do you even get to the point where you would say something like that to another human being, especially in a situation like this one? I am utterly boggled and enraged (and also very admiring towards OP, who sounds rightfully upset but also calm and rational which can’t be an easy feat)!

    1. Nodramalama*

      I suspect if this happened to me I’d be flabbergasted and immediately burst into tears

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      I was thinking the same. I’d be horrified if I heard one of my 1st years had said something like this. And 12/13 year olds are noted for being a lot less tactful than most adults. It’s just like…how can any adult think that was an appropriate thing to say? It’s like a comment I’d expect from a toddler or preschooler.

      From an adult, it’s just…being a bully for the sake of it. Like what would even possess anybody to say such a thing?

      1. ferrina*

        Right?! I’ve seen middle schoolers(12/13) call each other out for lesser behavior. There’s no way an adult actually thinks this is an appropriate thing to say.

  13. glt on wry*

    LW1 – I’m so sorry you had to deal with this horrible person. It also sounds like the experience has made you question your own presentation, due to the detailed explanation and defence you go into about your speech pattern. You really don’t have to explain or defend anything — this person was an idiot.

    As everyone has said, this interviewer was horrible and not worth your time, other than to report the incident. Do not stew about one idiot’s comments. Not worth it for you.

    Please don’t let one horrible person who kind of had a bit of power (interviewer) make you rethink your entire self. You are great, no explanation needed:)

  14. MrsThePlague*

    Also, LW, I know the ‘lisping-mutant’ comment was just a little self-deprecating jab, but I hope you know that you are not a freak, that you should feel proud of the work you’ve done to get to where you are, and that the experience of living in many different places probably gives you really interesting insight into so much of the human experience – and that’s such an incredible gift.

    It’s absolutely hideous the way this woman treated you, and I hope you’re able to reassure yourself (or talk to your life people, whoever they may be) that her baggage in NO WAY reflects on you. Definitely report it (could you leave a Glassdoor review, or do you have to be an employee to do that?) and I hope the comments here give you some reassurance :).

    May this lady lose one of each pair of socks she owns, every day for the next 5 years!

  15. Stoli*

    No one needs to know the specifics of anyone’s pregnancy nor are they probably very interested. When the time comes you just say you’re pregnant or expecting. That’s it.

    1. UKDancer*

      Definitely. I had a colleague who told me far more than I wanted to know about his fertility issues for the extensive period he and his wife were trying to conceive. I really prefer not to know details about colleagues medical issues.

      Keep it high level and bland and many people will not ask more. Then have something ready for those who do.

    2. Golden*

      Agree. I’m in an online group for parents of children born the same month/year that started during our pregnancies, and I think 2 or 3 people conceived through pretty unique situations. Literally no one has pressed for more details despite it being a group focused on pregnancy and having relative anonymity due to the online nature.

    3. Attra*

      Yes… I would be pretty weirded out if a coworker told me about the details of how they got pregnant or who the egg and/or sperm belonged to.

      1. Attractive Nuisance*

        Posted before I finished my comment (and my username!)

        People are aware that families are made all sorts of ways. I don’t think they are going to wonder that hard about how you got pregnant.

        And even if they do wonder or make assumptions, one piece of advice I want to give you as a fellow person who sometimes struggles with social cues: people are allowed to think incorrect thoughts about you and your life. Just because people are making incorrect assumptions about you doesn’t mean you have to correct them, or even should correct them. People are allowed to assume that your kid is biologically related to you even if they aren’t.

        If you WANT to tell people your kid is not related to you, that’s fine in some circumstances, but you are not lying or hiding anything by not going out of your way to counter people’s assumptions (or really, to counter your assumptions about what other people are assuming about you).

    4. anonymouse*

      yeah, the existence of a minority of loud nosy people who are much more noticable probably distracts from the fact that a majority of people really are NOT interested in someone else’s pregnancy at all, and would love to be spared the details! Be prepared with a brief answer to make the nosy people clam up, and the rest of us will be thankful that you are telling us nothing :)

  16. Despachito*

    LW1 -what an awful behavior. There is absolutely no excuse for that, and if you feel like reporting it please do.

    I saw a similar thing once done by a famous presenter who had a guest with a similar impediment, and mockingly imitated him. I was never able to listen to that presenter anymore, let alone laugh at his jokes, because I always picture this atrocious thing he was not ashamed to do.

  17. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #1 I am so sorry you suffered this insult. She is a nasty bigoted ableist shitebag.
    She has almost certainly discriminated against other candidates, maybe against coworkers too and will continue to do so until stopped.
    Please report if you feel able

  18. Arrietty*

    I have a child conceived by donor sperm, and when I was pregnant I told colleagues that my baby was donor conceived. No one has ever asked for more details than that (and actually no one asked for that, but they knew I’d recently got divorced so I wanted to pre-emptively clarify).

    1. UKDancer*

      While there are always a few very nosy people, I think most people aren’t likely to ask and don’t want to know how their colleagues conceived. If someone is a friend they might discuss but not usually colleagues.

      1. Jules the First*

        Ohhhhhhhh they ask. They definitely, absolutely, 110% ask. You also get some shockingly intrusive questions about the process of choosing a donor, the process of getting pregnant, and how you “cope” being entirely on your own. And lest you think it’s an American thing, I’m based in the UK and if anything my UK colleagues are worse.

        1. Letter Writer #3*

          This is my concern. I am in the UK as well. Most people will not ask and really aren’t interested. But there are a nosy few who think that they are entitled to know it all especially when your pregnancy etc is not ‘conventional’. I also wondered how much to share with my manager as if I am going through a IVF journey, I need their support with scheduling etc. But Alison’s answer put me at ease and I think I know how better to handle this.

        2. Seashell*

          That’s if they know the pregnancy resulted from donor sperm. If they didn’t have that information, then they’re probably going to assume it happened the old fashioned way and not ask for details, unless they’re nosy.

          1. metadata minion*

            Sure, but LW3 has noted that her coworkers know she doesn’t have a partner, so I would be pleasantly surprised if there isn’t at least one tactless person who asks if the pregnancy was intentional.

            1. The Unionizer Bunny*

              There are states in the US with no exception (to abortion bans) for incest/rape. Some religions apply a similar rule regardless of location. I want to imagine a world where this kind of question comes with an unspoken promise of “If it wasn’t intentional me and a few buddies will make sure the bastard responsible regrets messing with you”, but realistically I know it’s more likely to be “how irresponsible of a professional to not avoid children because of the interruption to work” and gender discrimination. (How often does an expecting father get that question when announcing that his wife is pregnant?)

        3. ferrina*

          Depends on the workplace culture. At my current workplace, no one would ask at all. They might say “Oh, I didn’t know you had a partner?” then you can reply, “I don’t”, and they will immediately drop it.

          At a previous workplace, there were a few people that felt entitled to your business. They could be fended off, but it was really annoying.

        4. The Unionizer Bunny*

          You also get some shockingly intrusive questions about the process of choosing a donor, the process of getting pregnant,

          I know the UK is more open to discussing sex than the US, but I still hesitate to interpret this as the kind of question that one could put a halt to by saying “my partner has documented our process thoroughly – if you really want to know, you can find all the details in the Erotica section of your local shop”. (Do they really ask this at the workplace?? And nobody frowns upon answering??

    2. KISS*

      I’m currently pregnant by donor sperm and at the point where I’d want to inform colleagues… if I had any, I was laid off recently. But if I had still been there, I would have kept it simple – I want a baby and I don’t want a partner (they knew I’m single) so I went for donor sperm. No one at work needs to know any other details, unless I like them and are willing to discuss it. I even have family members that are getting the same story. I also know my mom kept it even more simple with some more distant relatives and friends that I don’t have contact with. She’s only told them that a baby is on the way. No one has asked for more details, although we are sure they must be making up their own :)

    3. Former call centre worker*

      I worked with someone who chose to share that she was going through the process of choosing a sperm donor. AFAIK everyone was normal about it.

      1. londonedit*

        A friend of mine had a baby via a sperm donor 10 years ago, and she was fairly open about it (by which I mean she didn’t keep it a secret; it’s not as if she was telling the woman on the checkout in Sainsbury’s or anything). I don’t remember anyone asking any difficult questions – my friend was in her late 30s, single, and matter-of-fact about the fact that she was having a baby and doing it all on her own. People were more fascinated by the fact that at the time she was living in a small studio flat – there was a lot of ‘But will you have room for a baby?? What about when it starts walking? Where will all the toys go??’, which was slightly bizarre.

        1. Jo*

          Agree it’s no one’s business, but I find myself curious about the logistics of family living when a family is “different”. For instance if they live in unusual space like a tiny house or camper. Or if a colleague has an extra large family.

          One of my co-workers had 6 small children. I do/did not ask intrusive questions, but I admit my mind boggles with curiosity – what do they DRIVE? How many car seats can you fit in one car? How many bedrooms do they have? How do you cover gifts for Christmas?

          Again – silent, respectful. But the questions do roll around my head! LOL.

    4. WorkingRachel*

      I had a child in January conceived via a donor embryo. I told people at work I was “going to be a solo parent” and I may have said “I used a donor.” I don’t think I mentioned to anyone that my future child would not be genetically related to me. I work in a fairly progressive office with a not terrible but also not-great office culture. No one has asked any follow-up questions at all about my child’s conception. One (very young) coworker put together the timeline in her head and realized I was already pregnant when I took the job, but that’s literally it on nosy questions. Which is to say, you’ll probably be fine. And generally donor embryos are given to people of the same racial group, so there probably won’t be a super obvious appearance difference, either–even if there is people will just assume the child looks like the donor.

  19. Brain the Brian*

    LW4: if it helps you make an argument to your ED, I work for a nonprofit, and our travel policy specifically pegs mileage reimbursement to the federal rate. At some point, your organization may start to lose employees over this; it makes them a less competitive employer.

  20. Jules the First*

    LW#2, hi from an ND solo mom by choice, using donor sperm but my own eggs. First piece of advice is to find yourself a community of solo parents by choice – they usually are open to thinkers and triers as well as parents and can be an invaluable resource in navigating all this stuff. Second, Alison is right – you don’t need to share any of this information – but lots of people will ask astonishingly intrusive questions when they realise you are solo and pregnant, so it’s good to have a short explanation ready that you have practiced often enough that it feels natural. “I wanted to be a mother more than I wanted to be a wife so I had a baby with the help of science” is a popular starting point in my solo parent group. You do not need to share that you used donor eggs or embryos with random coworkers unless you want to, but something like “my own eggs weren’t an option so I’m very lucky that a generous woman/couple shared their eggs/embryos and made it possible for me to become a mother” should do the trick (*really* rude people will ask why your eggs weren’t an option, but a friend of mine leaves this in there anyway because she finds it useful in determining which people are going to be intrusively horrible about it). Further questions can be answered with “what a strange thing to ask a coworker!” (So practice that one too!). Happy to answer any specific questions – little man is now three and I’m headed back into treatment in a couple of months in hopes of giving him a little sibling.

  21. Awkwardness*

    #3: I am still confused about that letter and how OP came to notice this as the availability check only lists availability. Were you checking their calendars? And if so, why?
    I cannot help the impression that OP has a bigger problem with letting go control/being out of the loop than the employees might have with their manager not being on site.

    1. LateRiser*

      Scheduling assistant in Outlook shows meeting titles if the calendar is fully shared (which is the default for my workplace, and probably OP’s if they are specifically seeing a “private appointment”). All it would take is OP scheduling meetings with the people involved using the assistant view to notice.

    2. Also-ADHD*

      In Outlook, if you have some team settings on, you see other calendars when you go into your own. I see my whole team (boss, reports, peers, etc. horizontally by day in my default view when I go to set a meeting or add a block to my own, for instance). It’s useful, for a few reasons, but I’m not sure I’d even assume an overlapping block was a meeting together. The notion of private for the reports suggests that LW can see the text on the calendars and that they are fully shared (though you can still set things as private, either as the meeting sender or individual adding to your calendar).

    3. Allonge*

      Eh, we tend to have our calendars pretty open to each other (at least the event title is visible); it’s a good way to share some basic info with each other in a passive (so non-disturbing) manner. I have to look at other people’s calendars all the time to see what is happening.

    4. Nola*

      “Were you checking their calendars? And if so, why?”

      I check my boss’ calendar multiple times a day and I know she checks mine. That’s how I determine if she’s busy, if it’s a good time to pop in and ask her a question, etc. I also plan my work flow based upon her schedule – she’s got a meeting with X on Wednesday, so she’ll need the report Tuesday, so I’ll need to make sure it’s complete by Monday…

      And she looks at my calendar to gage where I’m at work wise. If she notices I’ve been having a ton of meetings with a certain department she’ll ask if there’s a problem and if I need support. If she’s got a new project that’s a bit of a rush job she’ll check to see who has a clearer calendar and make the initial assignment based on that.

      And if any one’s remote, calendar access is even more important.

      The idea that a boss checking an employee’s calendar is a hugh violation gets brought up all the time on AAM and I want to note that does not reflect my work experience at all.

      1. Observer*

        The idea that a boss checking an employee’s calendar is a hugh violation gets brought up all the time on AAM and I want to note that does not reflect my work experience at all.

        I don’t think that it’s a huge violation at all. But cross checking them is a bit off and comes off as micro-managing, unless the LW actually trying to schedule a meeting with them both. The only other time I would cross check the schedules of both of my managees would be if I needed them both on the same project. Otherwise? Nah.

      2. Yeah...*

        People creating a negative narrative around a private appointment and acting on that is what the problem is.

        Of course, a boss can check an employee’s calendar.

      3. perfect beasts*

        Yes, at my company we’re all in and out of each other’s calendars all the time – to book meetings or see if someone’s around, available, wfh or in the office, all sorts of stuff. It’s considered to be for general information and not private in any way.

  22. I Don't Sound Like James Stewart*

    Setting aside that LW1 does not sound like Daffy Duck, is it ever acceptable to point out that someone who sounds like a fictional character, even a 2-D one, sounds like that character? For example, if you work alongside someone who sounds like, say, James Stewart in “Its a Wonderful Life” (or any of his films for that matter) or Peter Griffin, would it necessarily be rude to say so?

    1. Audrey Puffins*

      There’s a time and a place, and a tone of voice, and I don’t think “during a job interview, in a clearly mocking tone” is *ever* the one

    2. ecnaseener*

      If it would be taken as a compliment, sure. If someone has an old-timely trans-Atlantic accent (which I’m just guessing is what you mean), that might be “weird” enough to be taken as an insult unless you’re clear that you really like it.

      1. londonedit*

        I think this is it. If it’s obvious you mean it as a compliment, then fine, but otherwise I’d steer well clear. And even if you do mean it as a compliment, bear in mind that someone with a distinctive voice or accent probably goes through their entire life hearing ‘Oh my god you sound EXACTLY like Roger Moore’ or ‘Oh my god your accent is sooooooo cuuuuuuuuute’ on a daily basis, so even if it’s complimentary they might just be absolutely sick of hearing about it.

        Totally agree, though, that openly mocking someone’s accent is never acceptable – let alone when you’re interviewing someone! Appalling behaviour that totally deserves to be reported.

    3. A Book about Metals*

      Not at all imo. If someone told me I sounded like Gregory Peck or James Mason I’d be thrilled. Even more so if they told me I looked like George Clooney

      1. HonorBox*

        As @ecnaseener says above, if the comment would be taken as a compliment, (and I’m going to double down on their comment) and you’re ABSOLUTELY SURE it will be taken as a compliment, sure. I’m with you that if someone told me I looked like Clooney, I’d be over the moon. But you have to know someone well enough to know how it will land for sure. A job interview isn’t the place for that. And I don’t think comparing someone to a cartoon character is going to land well in most cases. A very close friend telling me that my voice reminds them of Optimus Prime would be cool. But a stranger? Nope. Even if it is Prime.

    4. Irish Teacher.*

      As others have said, I think it really depends on context. Is the character one who it would be considered desireable to sound like? I’d generally steer clear of 2D characters because “you remind me of a cartoon” is often going to come across badly, even if not intended that way.

      I’d also avoid it if it’s a case of an accent, because accents that sound the same to people outside the area can sound very different to those from it. And for example, telling a Cork person they sound so like a character with a Kerry accent…probably wouldn’t go down well. But all Irish accents and certainly all southern Irish accents may sound similar to somebody who is not Irish.

      But I don’t think saying somebody sounded like a celebrity or character known for having an attractive voice would necessarily be rude.

      Imitating the supposed voice, as the interviewer did here though, is most definitely rude in any context.

    5. Genevieve*

      In a professional context, I would just err on the side of not doing it even if you mean it well. You never know what that person’s relationship to that fictional character is or how many times they may have heard it.

      I may be overly sensitive because my own father used to call me Elmer Fudd (I am female and it was because I was late learning my R sound), but still, just don’t.

    6. Ellis Bell*

      I think comparing someone’s voice to a comic device and anthropomorphized duck is in no way going to land positively but focusing on someone’s voice in any way needs to be done with overt compliments; we usually don’t choose how we speak and most people don’t like recordings of their own voice. Even when you’re being positive, I think there’s a chance of making someone feel others and like they’re a walking accent if you make too big a deal of how someone sounds, which to them is going to be beyond mundane. There might be some conversational benefit in asking where an accent is from, but I’m not sure tying someone’s voice to a celebrity has any benefit at all unless you simply phrase it as a quick compliment. “You have the same baritone as James Earl Jones, it’s really cool”.

    7. HonorBox*

      I think context and timing matter in this. You have to know someone pretty well to know how that’s going to land.

      The two examples you suggest might land very differently, too, so you’d have to know A LOT about someone to make that comparison out loud. If we worked together and you told me I sound like James Stewart or Morgan Freeman or Katherine Hepburn, I’d probably take that differently than Peter Griffin or Homer Simpson or Dudley Doright.

      A job interview is never a place to make this kind of comparison, because even if it is well-intended – “you know, your voice reminds me a lot of Ryan Reynolds'” – it might throw someone off and make them feel like they need to make some sort of change.

    8. LCH*

      at work? not on first meeting. maybe not ever. i think comments on personal things like that require people to know each other better (or have it be not at work) because the possibility of it coming across as gauche is higher.

    9. CommanderBanana*

      ………what?

      I would refrain from saying anyone sounds like a cartoon character.

    10. Dr. Vibrissae*

      This reminded me of the time I was doing Loony Tunes impersonations for my 5-year-old and suddenly realized that almost every character is defined by some kind of speech impediment (Daffy, Porky, Sylvester, Tweety, Foghorn Leghorn off the top of my head). I wasn’t sure what to do with that information, but I became very uncomfortable doing most of the voices after that.

      1. sb51*

        I think Foghorn Leghorn might specifically be the one the hiring manager was thinking of in the back of her mind, even if she said Daffy Duck – he’s often remembered as being a “Rhode Island Red” (a type of chicken), although googling it it seems that actually that’s the name of his college roommate/rival, and I’ve seen a bunch of things assuming he’s specifically from Rhode Island etc.

        Not that ANY of that makes any of the hiring manager’s comments acceptable, just that it might explain how her bigoted mind connected those things together.

  23. anon for this*

    LW2 – you should absolutely make the choices that are right for you, but I do want to flag that clinics don’t get a full and verified medical history from donors (it’s just what they self report), so it’s not at all uncommon for donor conceived people to end up with ADHD or autism from their donor’s side. again, no judgment and you should absolutely do what’s right for you, and you may well already know all of this – I just had a period where I was working on something related to this, and I know that many many (my guess is most) recipient parents are misled by clinics, and since you’re specifically concerned about health issues, I wanted to mention it. (I recommend Laura High – she’s great at breaking it all down.)

    good luck, and again, I hope this doesn’t come off as condescending or judgmental.

  24. Justin*

    Want to commend OP #1 for their writing skill (not in a patronizing way, as an author myself) because “crimson miasma” is excellent.

    Kick her butt (well, in reporting it, but whatever)!

    2. juliebulie*

      And I would love to hear about some of the other red flags. Also, seriously, I do hope we get an update after OP1 reviews on Glassdoor/notifies upper management.

  25. Maggie*

    LW2, please ignore any probing questions and don’t bring up the conversation at work. As a neurodivergent mom of my own genetic neurodivergent kids, it would be an upsetting thing to discuss or overhear at work. It’s a tender philosophical subject and doesn’t belong in the workplace. If you are nagged by other colleagues by questions you feel would be answered by why you made your choices, that is their rudeness not yours and you don’t need to satisfy them.

    1. maya*

      Yep. While I completely respect and viscerally understand the LW’s decision, as an AuDHD person it would be upsetting to hear those ideas being promoted by another AuDHD person in the workplace and change how I saw them.

  26. ecnaseener*

    LW2, you don’t need to share anything you don’t want to share, but if you do feel like it would be easier to share the basics rather than have people speculating wildly, I think it’s totally fine to say you used IVF / sperm donation.

    But I would urge against saying anything other than “medical reasons” re: why you’re not using your own eggs. Definitely don’t go around telling people that you don’t want to have a child with autism or ADHD, the odds are too high that you will really hurt someone’s feelings with that. (Of course you have every right to make this choice for yourself, and I know you wouldn’t be speaking for what anyone else should do — even so, it’s a heavy thing to say and both conditions are common enough that it’ll hit home for many people.)

    And as a more minor thing, the more people you tell, the more times you’ll have it pointed out to you that your child could still have autism and/or ADHD without your genes.

    1. Llama mama*

      I wanted to point out that while you don’t have to share any information, it may be useful to share that you are pursuing IVF with your managers (depending on your situation). We have someone going through that process at work and it sometimes involves appointments during work hours. It’s still not anyone’s business, but depending on your work environment it can be useful context…but you may prefer not to discuss it at all, which is fine too.

  27. K8plus1*

    For LW#2. I’m a single mom by choice (used a sperm donor) and was worried I’d be asked about the father when I announced I was pregnant. No one asked, they just congratulated me! Honestly very few people have asked in the 3 years I’ve had my child. And the few who did ask were either people I was close with so I didn’t mind sharing or obnoxious strangers who I had no problem ignoring. Good luck!

    1. Mrs Whosit*

      Different situation, but I want to chime in and say that not a single coworker has asked me *why* we adopted in the year and a half since our child was born.

      As it happens, so far people (coworkers, acquaintances, strangers) think the toddler looks like me, and sometimes I just go with it, and other times I enjoy saying, “I know, which is funny since we adopted.” Someone above noted that being ready to reply to questions if the baby doesn’t look like you is smart, and it is. But I also think people who don’t know the whole story are going to look for resemblance, even if there isn’t much.

    2. Cat Tree*

      Same. It’s very, very common for us to expect lots of questions, but it’s also very, very common for other people to just not care about us as much as we care about ourselves. In most places, it’s no longer scandalous to have a baby as a single mother, or by using donors. People mostly have a general interest but are polite enough or just don’t care enough to ask about the details.

      My kid is also 3, and the topic rarely comes up. Sometimes I’ll talk about how I have 100% of the parenting duty 100% of the time, and how difficult that was during Covid restrictions for daycare. But other than that it is rarely relevant.

      (It is interesting how my parenting discussions sound so similar to mothers with male partners, to the point that most people probably assume that I have a useless husband at home, but that is a different topic entirely.)

      1. Cat Tree*

        Also just adding that in 3 years of being a single mother, I have only received two borderline intrusive/rude questions, but from neighbors. I never looked pregnant, especially in baggy quarantine clothes, and didn’t have much contact with my neighbors during the pandemic. So it was a surprise to everyone when I just came home one day with a newborn. One neighbor asked if I adopted the baby, and I just said no. One neighbor blurted out, “who’s the father?” I just said, “anonymous donor” and the topic never came up again.

        1. Gumby*

          I would be so tempted to say something like “It could be any one of hundreds of men. Maybe thousands. I just have no way of knowing.”

  28. ijustworkhere*

    LW #1 Please please report this interaction to the company’s HR team. I would copy the CEO as well. Who knows what this person is doing to other employees, clients, and candidates? This is bullying and harassment at a minimum, and an ADA lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I am so very sorry this happened to you. I hope you’ve found a position that values your contributions and is a supportive working environment.

  29. JSPA*

    I know a large set of full siblings (dark-chocolate Af-Am mom, milk-white North German/Nordic mix dad) who cover essentially the full range of parental pigment and features. And adopted kids who have the gestures, attitude and facial expression of their adoptive parents, such that people say, “oh, she looks just like you!” to their parents (including one family where both moms hear this constantly)!

    LW2, you don’t have to validate the assumptions of people who MIGHT assume that all parents look like their bio kids. There’s nothing to explain beyond, “yes, that’s my kid.”

    However, do (separately) remember that neurodivergence isn’t rare (sperm donors, egg donors and extra-embryo donors can of course have neurodivergent traits or predisposing genotypes). You know about your neurodivergence, and have hard-won insights. That’s a powerful benefit that will help you parent whatever kid you end up with.

  30. AlphabetSoupCity*

    For Alison re: LW2- I’d request you remove paragraph #2. I will not question LW’s experience but this type of talk around reproduction is extremely dangerous and has its roots in eugenic thinking. It makes me very very sad to see it repeated here and shared widely (possibly without question, or without being able to be remarked upon since it’s off topic). I don’t think the reasons matter to your answer, as you say, so please consider removing

    1. musical chairs*

      I almost wanted to comment the same thing. I said a version of it. But I figured the e word would get auto-modded. Like.. it’s so jarring to see that that was run.

    2. Head Sheep Counter*

      The LW comments above about their lived experience. I think noting one’s ability or lack of ability to cope with known facts is important to making choices about one’s future. More people should be introspective and realistic about their family background, genetics and the support they have around themselves to cope with the results of those factors.

      Its a deeply personal choice. And yes it can lead down a path of bad things like eugenics. But not being realistic can also lead to bad outcomes.

    3. Allict*

      Thanks for taking the risk to say this.

      I’m AuDHD and my husband is Autistic. It’s made life challenging. Difficult, even. We live in a deeply ableist society that punishes difference harsly. So much so that I’ve found myself thinking this way, too. Maybe someone like me shouldn’t procreate. Maybe we should just adopt. Maybe no one is supposed to be like this.

      When all of society is set up to make people think different ways of being are bad and wrong, it’s so so easy to self police. But that’s the point — if the world is hostile enough to marginalized groups, maybe they’ll do the work of eliminating themselves! We live is a fundamentally eugenic society. This is not accidental.

      I don’t know if it’s right, ethically, to bring a child into a world that hates them. But I do know that whatever I end up deciding, it’s not a neutral choice, and it’s wrong to pretend it is. If we decide to have a child who we know will be Autistic, that is a radical act. If we decide not to for that same reason, it’s an act of capitulation. Full stop. These decisions can’t be decontectualized. Certainly not if we ever hope to change things.

      OP should make their own choices for their own life. I can’t say I won’t make the same one. But, I don’t think spreading that way of thinking as if it’s neutral is right. All it does is validate eugenic thinking in everyone who sees it… as these comments clearly show.

      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        It’s not just about outside discrimination, but about not wanting a disability.
        I have never wanted to be born white, despite having experienced frequent racial violence & vicious discrimination in my youth, since race is only a problem because of racism.

        However, I wish I had not been born autistic, just as I wish I had not been born with a visual handicap. I needed & had accommodations for both, but nothing fully compensates for my disabilities.
        Just as my visual handicap has restricted my life, especially wrt not having been able to drive for many years, so has my autism, which has had much worse consequences in that it that my lack of understanding of NT people that has caused longterm pain to my mother in particular and also to myself.

        I completely understand the OP wanting her child to have a less painful & difficult life. We should not try to censor how she expresses her problems.

        1. Allict*

          I sincerely hope that if a letter had come through talking about how awful being black is and how the writer never wanted a black child because everyone knows how difficult they are such a thing wouldn’t be published without comment. And I certainly hope the comments wouldn’t then be full of people talking about how we need to face the hard truth that black children are just more difficult and not wanting one is totally understandable.

          Unfortunately things it’s not okay to say about any other group are still fine to say about the disabled. Disappointing, but sadly not surprising.

        2. Allict*

          Yes, it is incredibly difficult to have a disability in our society. This is not actually the fault of disabled people.

        3. JSPA*

          Taking neurotypia out of the equation, because in some ways it’s a red herring:

          I think it’s fair, understandable and honest for someone to say, “based on the weight of family experience, I think I would be better not parenting a kid who reminds me of me (or of my family members).”

          In fact, it strikes me that this IS essentially what the LW is saying. Not that neuroatypia makes her (or anyone) intrinsically “less than,” intrinsically a bad parent, intrinsically a bad bio parent, or intrinsically a difficult kid. But that familial patterns (bad ones) could be triggered by facing too much of the same sort of difficult, in a kid that reminds you too strongly of your difficult family.

          I totally hear and get that.

      2. Letter Writer #3*

        I am saying with without malice, rancor, or dislike but I need to say this because I fundamentally disagree with a lot of what you say.

        It is not an act of anything to bring a child into this world. It is a fact that happens, neutrally. Choosing to set up a child, as best as possible, within the parent’s powers is a choice and it is not one that should be read as anything other than a parent doing the best for their child. This is the reason why people with highly inheritable and devastating genetic conditions choose to use donors – because they know, full well, the pain and hardship their child would endure if they chose to continue a genetic legacy. It is not them being eugencists or negative or self policing. It is a difficult, emotionally charged decision that is, at the core, about giving a child the best possible roll of the dice.

        The child could still have a condition, disease, or be neuroatypical. It’s not possible to control every variable and parents shouldn’t try to. Nobody, and especially not me, is suggesting that. But if they could, I think most parents would not pick to intentionally give a child a genetic condition that made them paralysed or blind or without a limb, in a world that does not cope well with disabled people at best and often is actively discriminatory and offensive to them. They would love a child with it, and they wouldn’t swap the child they have for one without, but if they could take the dice that is their child’s genetics and take off two of the four sides that carry the genes for it, and roll it again before their child was born, I think they would for the benefit of the child. Some wouldn’t. But a lot would.

        Having a child, intentionally knowing that they are almost guaranteed to be my specific flavour of autism (seriously, the genes in this family) and everything else I have, is not a radical act. I lived in this body and this brain for decades and it is a radical act to let someone have the chance to not share what I’ve been through.

        Criticising lived experience and saying it’s akin to eugenics on a state level is deeply hurtful and it is also erasing the idea that disabled people can think critically of their own experiences and can recognise that disability isn’t just sunshine and roses. It is hard work, bitter disappointment, a lifelong war with every government office you come across, medical expenses, and restrictions that you don’t pick but either your mind, body, or the world puts on you without your consent.

        There is a mile wide gap between ‘I am choosing to not pass along a complex genetic condition that will cause my child significant distress and emotional harm that they MAY figure out how to overcome’ and ‘all disabled people don’t deserve to exist.’

        Autistic people are significantly less likely to be employed, to have relationships, to live independently, and to have a diverse and active social life. Up to 66% have thought about taking their own lives. I’ve lived through it. If my child is born like this anyway, I’ll love and cherish them and give them support and care for as long as I live and they will be provided for. Giving my child that, knowingly and willingly, is not a Radical Act and it is not a decision that I, personally, would be content with.

        We can have a difference of opinion. I’m going to leave this here.

    4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I hope AAM will not shut down an OP’s actual life experiences and fears, expressed sensitively & honestly as here.

      This is about the mother’s right to chose, not eugenics, which would be the state deciding

      Many people prefer to avoid having a disabled child if possible, including when they themselves have that same disability and know from personal experience how shite life can be for the child, not just the parents.

      Screening for Down’s Syndrome has long been common for older mothers and they can then chose to terminate. In the Uk, fetal abnormalities – including cleft palates – are the most common cause for 3rd trimester abortions (I don’t know about the US)
      PGT (Preimplantation genetic testing) is a comonplace IVF procedure that examines embryos before transfer to the uterus for a range of genetic problems, so that only the healthier embryos are used.

    5. Anonythis*

      Um, no. I’m with LW2 on this one – autistic, many many autistic family members, it’s only really in my generation that we started going ‘hang on, maybe there is a better way to handle this than trying to power through and pretend to be neurotypical’ and my brother nearly died to get to that point.
      I’m not having children because I’ve had the advantage of looking at four generations of this very specific neurotype and seeing aunties and uncles die alone because they couldn’t admit they weren’t perfectly ‘normal’ and couldn’t retain friendships even with their own siblings and children.
      I’m not even adopting because my sister has a different neurotype and my family’s parenting/childrearing style has still managed to make her appear to be this specific type of autistic-in-violent-denial, and I don’t know that I can protect any kid I have from that because it’s the only kind of childrearing I know.
      I’m glad I exist. I’m glad my family and other autistic people I know exist. I am not personally equipped to have or raise an autistic child, so I’m not going to do that.
      I do think the reason matters to the answer, because it’s a clear and firmly-held reason that LW2 very much should not get into at work, but ‘I decided not to have genetically-related children’ is not something most people can parse without asking a lot of questions, and it’s not one of the ‘normal’ reasons for using donor genetics.

  31. L. Ron's Cupboard*

    I think I went a little blind with rage reading #1. And this is the HIRING MANAGER?! I absolutely hope you report her, LW. She deserves to lose her job for this on the spot.

  32. melissa*

    #2-
    Only the MOST boorish imaginable of your colleagues would blurt out “But you’re [race] and your baby looks [race]! Who’s the dad??” If someone does that, just roll your eyes and walk away, obviously. But 99% of people are just going to go “Oh he’s so cute, congratulations” and neither want nor need your background info about the baby’s origins.

    1. Observer*

      Only the MOST boorish imaginable of your colleagues would blurt out “But you’re [race] and your baby looks [race]! Who’s the dad??”

      You would think, but unfortunately there are a lot of very strange people in the world.

      I had a friend who is of complexion A, and her husband is noticeably Complexion B. His mother is of Complexion C – and looked TOTALLY and COMPLETELY different from him (he looks a lot like his father.) When this could had a child, said child did not look like either of them, but was a spitting image of Grandma. So looking noticeably different from both parents. (Think something like one is swarthy, one is medium non-WASP and one is Slavic fair.) Do you know how many people asked her if this was her husband’s child? In so many words, no less! Not just “who is the father?” But “Is this Mr. Husband’s child?”

      Boorish? Absolutely! But a shocking number of people are boorish.

      If someone does that, just roll your eyes and walk away,

      and

      neither want nor need your background info about the baby’s origins.

      Yes! 100% Most people really don’t care, and no one (outside your medical providers) needs that info.

  33. Midwesterner*

    #1. You were treated horribly. Why do you then turn around and demean Midwestern accents with the term “bog-standard”?

    1. Sunny*

      It’s a turn of phrase that just means ‘completely ordinary’. British slang. It’s not an insult.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      The term derives from manufacturing and it just means “standard issue”. When my course leader used it recently she meant that we are to focus on teaching the essentials of the course and not add anything extra or unnecessary next year. You’ve really illustrated why you have to be careful when commenting on accents, though.

    3. Good Enough For Government Work*

      It literally means normal or average or usual. Please simmer down.

  34. DramaQ*

    I’m with everyone else LW1. Rain fire on that hiring manager.

    My eldest was in speech therapy and still has some issues if I found out a hiring manager spoke to her that way I wouldn’t care about being seen as a helicopter mom I’d be in that office going She Hulk.

    I also worked for years with a multicultural group of coworkers. I’d go she Hulk for them too.

    I’d plaster it all over glassdoor and Indeed as well. anywhere that allows reviewing an employer. others deserve to know what they are walking into.

    and some employers do read them. one negative review can really drag down ratings. It may get their attention on top of reporting directly to whoever it is you worked with in HR prior to meeting this manager.

  35. We’re Six*

    LW2, trust me you really don’t need to go into all that detail with every rando (including at work) about exactly how your hypothetical kid comes to be. No one is actually that interested. I don’t say that to be mean, it’s just in a matter of fact way.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      I think this is absolutely true 99.9 per cent of the time, in probably the same way that OP1 doesn’t encounter anyone being so vilely rude about a slight difference in speech every day. It’s not a terrible idea to have a script ready for the outliers of civilised conduct though. I still remember a colleague who had a grudge against our manager who was actually pretty great. I remember asking what her problem was with her and hearing that she “didn’t understand working mothers” This was odd, because other people sang her praises on this point, but instead of saying that, I said “She has two boys at home!” (they were her stepsons, but as their mother had been dead since they were young, my boss had helped raise them from their toddlerhood). Out of nowhere, she said “Oh my god, they’re not HER kids, and she’s not a REAL mother; she’s just PRETENDING FFS.” This was such a wild departure of logic to someone like me, who has never “cared” in the slightest about the DNA or logistics of people’s birth, that I had nothing to say to her but a completely blank stare. I’ve come up with so many better responses in all the years since then! If OP’s kids look significantly different to her racially, and if she’s obviously single when she’s pregnant the vast, vast majority of people will not care. But she probably will get a comment from someone, somewhere along the line.

    2. Head Sheep Counter*

      I agree. I do think @Ellis Bell has a point though about scripts for rude people and depending on where you live there might be… more intrusive rude people than not. I’d factor that into my decisions for the future FWIW (the need for community support of folks who aren’t rude).

      At work, I don’t need a single detail about anything about your reproduction or lack there of.

  36. Dewey*

    #2 reminds me of a coworker who had her baby through a surrogate. We found out because we got an email on a Thursday that said, “As you know, Coworker will be going on maternity leave starting next week, so we’re having a baby shower tomorrow.” No, we did not know!

    Maybe the more senior folks knew about it, but the lower tier (me) had no clue. Her direct reports only knew she was going on leave, but they didn’t even know she was having a baby. You know what we did with all our questions? Nothing. Because this was clearly something private she didn’t want to talk about. She brought her son to the holiday parties later–he was so cute!

    1. Lily Rowan*

      I have a lot of colleagues I only see over Zoom now, and every so often one of them says she’s leaving for maternity leave next week, and usually they are pregnant and I had no idea! Never mind knowing the rest of her family situation.

  37. El l*

    OP2:
    I doubt your colleagues want to know even 30% of what you shared.

    If any get curious, say “That’s private, I’m not going to discuss it.” And if any get offensive say “That’s rude.”

    You’re having a baby, which you’re excited about, and you’re going to keep the father and any other family aspects personal. That’s all there is to say here.

    Work can be liberating – because you DON’T have to bring your whole self!

    1. Observer*

      Work can be liberating – because you DON’T have to bring your whole self!

      I just had a good laugh! Because it is SO true, yet do often overlooked.

      OP, EL 1 is right! You just don’t have to explain anything to anyone.

    2. Sara without an H*

      What El 1 said. LW#3, I can tell from your letter that you’ve put a lot of thought into this decision, which is good. But you don’t have to share any of it with your colleagues/nosy-but-presumably-well-intentioned strangers, etc., etc. You’re having a baby, you’re happy and excited about it. That’s all.

      Personally, I think you’d be more likely to get questions about the father, but that may be a reflection of my age. Alison’s script, or some other version of “we’re not together” should be enough for most people nowadays.

      Congratulations!

  38. HonorBox*

    OP1 – Report it. And I’d even go farther than what was advised. I think I’d send a notice of withdrawal to HR that looks something like the following: “I’d like to inform you that I am formally withdrawing from consideration for this position. My speech impediment/accent was openly mocked by the hiring manager. I’m obviously uncomfortable continuing in this process. If this person handles the interview process poorly, it gives me pause about how they’d handle situations in the future. And I’m concerned about the possibility of being excluded for consideration because of my minor speech impediment, which would be a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. If you’re interested in finding out additional details, I’d be happy to visit.”

  39. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

    LW 2: I want to go father than Allison’s advice that you “don’t need to” to share your family planning details or reasoning at work (implying that you might choose to, at least selectively), and suggest that you *should not* share your family planning details or reasoning at work, full stop.

    It’s not fair but it is frequently the case that people take any explanation as an invitation to discuss, question, and share their own opinion and perspective — as comments here amply illustrate. It’s harder to interrupt an undesired behavior once it gets started than to arrange the conditions to make it less likely to start in the first place (a skill you may find helpful as a parent).
    Tell your coworkers only what is relevant to your work relationship, only when it becomes relevant to your work relationship:

    Best of wishes on your hoped-for family.

    And if you want education about child development and parenting from an ND-affirming professional occupational therapist, who’s also a neurodivergent parent of kids who are visibly different race, I highly recommend The OccuPlaytional Therapist, Kelsie Olds. They have numerous written and recorded materials and links to other resources on their webpage and Facebook page. The latter has a very active and generally kind and knowledgeable commenting community, and they frequently respond to comments.

    1. Nightengale*

      oh my word that is my new favorite blog and she just wrote a book!

      I’m a neurodivergent non-parent. I take care of about 700 neurodivergent kids including many who have neurodivergent parents as well and that has become one of my top recommended resources. I love how realistic and practical her stuff is.

  40. Dust Bunny*

    Baby: You don’t have to tell anyone any of this, though. It is absolutely nobody’s business besides yours and your doctor’s what the genetic background is of this kid, and anyone who presses you can be merrily told to kiss off. A woman having a kid on her own by sperm donor (and your coworkers don’t need to know anything about the other parent, anyway) isn’t that unusual any more, and the egg donor bit is way, way, way beyond what anyone else needs to know.

  41. Nathan*

    LW2 – As a parent through adoption, if my coworkers have any thoughts or opinions about my son not looking very much like me they keep it to themselves. Most of them probably assume he favors my wife (the few coworkers I’m close enough to that they’ve met my wife also know that we adopted). Obviously different companies can have very different cultures, but I hope that here in 2024 we’ve made enough strides that even if someone does feel some sort of a way about a single person raising a child and / or a child not looking much like their parents, they know enough to keep those thoughts private.

    (Also, on a personal note, we also chose adoption because of some genetic time bombs from my family we’d rather not pass down to a child. Everybody is of course free to make their own reproductive decisions, but I don’t see your choice as selfish at all. You have chosen an expensive, alternate route to parenthood in order for your child to have a chance at not having to struggle with some of the stuff you did, and that’s not something to be ashamed of!)

  42. ANONFORTHIS*

    LW #2 – I think Alison’s answer is spot on – it’s not anyone elses business, and no need to disclose details if you don’t want to.

    A complete aside that you can completely ignore if you like from someone who one who was having fertility issues and considering donation. I’d really like to recommend ‘Insemination’ podcast when considering your decision. I learned a lot about the fertility industry, doner conceived people, and ethical considerations. It was a very uncomfortable listen, but it brought up so many issues I had never even considered thinking about. Not judging your decision at all – I just realized I was very uninformed about the issues and was glad to have heard different perspectives. (I then luckily got pregnant naturally and didn’t have to make any decisions – really you can ignore me)

  43. HannahS*

    OP2, my opinion is that one of the best communication gifts to give someone is a clear signal of how you want them to react. And in general, unless you have a strong ideological preference for being open about the hows and whys of your reproductive choices, I would err on the side of sharing less. So for example:

    “I’m excited to share that I’m having a baby! Being a parent is important to me and I am looking forward to taking this step.”

    “I consider the story of how my child came to be is their story, so until they’re older I’m keeping the details private.”

    And feel free to insert at any time: “Wow, what a question! I don’t really know what to say” and then repeat whatever you just said, “I’m focusing on my how happy I am,” or “That’s really [Baby’s] story to share. Do you want to ask me a fun question, like what colour I’m painting the nursery?”

    1. the Viking Diva*

      “one of the best communication gifts to give someone is a clear signal of how you want them to react. ” Love this principle!

  44. Person from the Resume*

    LW2, I think you just need to let people’s assumptions work against them. While in the womb, they will assume that the baby is biologically yours. Even if the baby looks a distinctly a different race than you, the baby could just look like the unnamed and unknown father as far as coworkers are concerned. I don’t think people will guess donated eggs, and you certainly do not need to explain that you don’t want to pass on your genetics.

    IMO your biggest problem will actually be the default assumption that you are having the baby with a partner and people will ask about the dad. (Perhaps you are imaging correcting that first assumption by going into details about donated eggs and anonymous sperm donors and why, but you do not have to.) I think you should practice a breezy statement about choosing to have a child without a partner because the time is right for you. Do not go into details with your coworkers. Choose which close friends you want to share more details with, but preferably not coworkers.

  45. Czech Mate*

    LW 2 – when I was growing up in relatively small-town, middle America in the early 2000s, I had a teacher in exactly the same circumstances who did exactly this. I also have a good friend who was conceived in exactly the same circumstances–her mother was 40, unmarried, and just decided she wanted a baby, so she used IVF (also in small-town, rural America). No one is entitled to an explanation, but if you want to give a short one, no one should really bat an eye at this–you can really just say, “I’m having a baby” and leave it at that.

    1. Pikachu*

      Yep, the woman that owns my gym did this a few years ago. Had a baby on her own. When people asked about the father or whatever (who even does that? I still can’t fathom those words coming out of my mouth to a pregnant woman), she’d give a casual “Oh, I went to a clinic. So anyway…”

      That might be more than OP wants to share, but it does make it clear that you made an independent choice to be a parent on your own terms. For most people (especially in the workplace, with normal levels of tact), that should be enough.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        I’d be okay revealing that, but if OP is not, and people aren’t settling for “Oh it’s just going to be the two of us”, I’d just toss the awkward back to sender; “You’re not really asking about the conception are you? Like I said, it’s just the two of us”.

  46. nnn*

    Also for LW2, if you are worried about answering questions about who the baby looks like, a script to have in your pocket could be something like “She’s the spitting image of her grandmother when she was a baby!”

    Benign, unverifiable, conveniently doesn’t get into who her grandmother is, and probably not even false since babies do tend to look like babies.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      ^ And all babies tend to be the spitting image of Winston Churchill, or rather, Winston Churchill sort of looked like a baby.

    2. Czech Mate*

      Also, I think people REALLY stretch to find a resemblance even if there isn’t one. I remember once saying to a friend, “Wow, you and your sister look SO much alike!” and she said, “Really? That’s funny, because I was adopted.”

      1. Dust Bunny*

        I had a high school acquaintance who was an absolute clone of her mother. But she was adopted. Not a family adoption; they had zero genetic ties. I guess it was a fluke but it was amazing.

        I also have a cousin who looked nothing at all like either of his parents until he was about thirteen. He is definitely their biological son, it just took that long for the resemblance to settle in.

  47. HailRobonia*

    Tangential to #1: Years ago I used to play Dungeons and Dragons in a gaming store – the games were open to the public and while there was a core group of players each week, we would also have new people drop in. I was starting in a new campaign with a new character, and I had modelled the character on Elmer Fudd from “What’s Opera Doc” (the exquisite Looney Tunes opera episode… SPEAR AND MAGIC HELMET!”). Of course I had planned to roleplay with Elmer Fudd’s distinctive voice.

    Well we had a new player join us, a younger kid 13-14, who had a speech impediment similar to Elmer’s… I am SO glad that I heard him speak before I started roleplaying my character! It could have been extremely insulting and upsetting to this person, and I feel “oh, I didn’t mean it like that” would not have been enough.

    So I just used my regular voice aside from some terrible operatic singing from time to time “I rolled a FIF-TEEEEEEEEN!”

    I feel bad just thinking about what could have happened, and it really woke me up to this issue.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Thank you so much for being kind and changing your plans to not embarrass that kid. They probably don’t realize or remember it, but if you hadnt (even by accident) then that kid would have still remembered it.

      I have a speech impediment myself, along with a very high squeaky voice (almost like Bernadette on Big Bang Theory). When I was in college, i worked in a grocery store. I went into the managers office to look for Paul who was sort of our assistant manager. Their was another worker who was in his late 40s in there with him and another teenager worker. I will never forget how I felt when I went in and rounded the corner and said “hey Paul?” to see if he was in there. The older guy mocked my voice in a sing-song way “hey Paul”.
      I’ve had people on the phone make fun of my voice, but never had someone who was old enough to be my father be so rude. It really hurt.

    2. Genevieve*

      Bless you for that quick pivot.

      My dad called me Elmer Fudd for years and it still stings. My (still very young) son also struggles with his articulation and literally nothing will trigger me faster than someone making fun of him (and it happens more than you would think in 2024). Ironically, he loves What’s Opera Doc and it gets quoted constantly in our house, but never with any reference to my son’s actual speech.

  48. S*

    LW2, I would worry not about telling colleagues anything specific about your child’s origin. I *would* worry about handling childcare without a partner or (it seems) a family that can help, particularly given your diagnoses. My husband has autism and ADHD, and those conditions raise the odds of having depression. Postpartum depression can be a serious challenge, and it comes up more when parents have insufficient help. My husband had it when our kid was an infant (yes, men can have PPD). It was really rough. I would urge you to work with informed clinicians who can help with your mental state, and do it proactively, before the baby is born. It might do you a world of good and help keep your career on track.

    1. Letter Writer #3*

      This is a very valid concern and I appreciate it a lot. I will definitely look for some more resources closer to the time, and I’m also saving to bring in additional help like a cleaner and meal prep stuff when I’m post-partum so I won’t be doing everything alone. I also bought a house with my parent who can help (before retreating to the granny flat) because house prices around our way are bonkers and living alone, neither of us could afford anything.

  49. Owlbuddy*

    I read #1 earlier this morning and I keep remembering it and being enraged over again on the letter-writer’s behalf. Please, tell someone about this terrible person’s behavior.

  50. CLC*

    I’ll just note that in many cases (certainly in mine), you may have to (on a practical level) tell your team you are doing IVF, depending on how long it goes on for. It’s probably easier to avoid this if you are using donor eggs/embryos as you don’t have to deal with the medical stuff yourself, but even then it is time consuming and takes a lot out your schedule and can be emotionally draining. You can just refer to it as a medical appointments, but if it goes one beyond one cycle people actually start to worry. You also can’t really plan when you will be out in advance, so there’s that to consider too. I did IVF for years and just told my manager and team I was doing that and I may need some folks to cover meetings, etc. It was NBD.

    1. Cat Tree*

      I had 3.5 rounds of IVF over the curse of 1.5 years and never told my team or my boss until I was ready to announce my pregnancy. My clinic had monitoring appointments before the start of my workday, with the earliest appointments reserved for women with jobs like teacher that start early. For the retrievals and then transfers, I just took a sick day or vacation day with short notice.

      It definitely varies by workplace but it’s not universal that LW would have to share during the process.

  51. JennG*

    #1, just wanted to reiterate that this was entirely out of bounds and you deserved better and I am so glad you won’t work with this horrid person. Stay strong!

    1. Goldenrod*

      Yes! Here to say this!

      LW1 – Your letter had my jaw on the floor. I’m just glad you found this out *before* you accepted a job there. I worked for someone once who made fun of how I dressed (sidenote: I have a sense of style; boss did not). She was the meanest, worst boss I ever had.

      You do. not. make fun of people! Especially at work! ESPECIALLY in an interview! That is a horrible, horrible person, and one of the few times I am firmly in the “YES REPORT THIS TO HR” camp.

      Good luck with the rest of your interviews! You dodged a bullet!

  52. Robert Smith's Hair*

    LW1 – want you to know that you a GD delight. Thank goodness we don’t all sound the same! And then to be actually CONFIDENT speaking in front of others? Or like you said, people whose first language isn’t English, to speak? That’s exceptional. Report those buttfaces and know you have all of us cheering for you.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Now I kind of want to make a badge that says “I’m a goddamn delight!” and hand it out to my coworkers who are, indeed, a goddamn delight.

      Also, your username is a goddamn delight, especially as I’m seeing for the first time on a Friday.

  53. JFC*

    Get over the mileage thing. 58 cents per mile would be a dream. I’m fighting with our accounting department because I accidentally submitted a form that had the 34-cent per mile rate from a few months ago as opposed to the 32-cent per mile rate that’s in place for this month. It changes month to month based on our state’s average gas prices (which tend to run lower than other parts of the country).

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Just because you are having issues with this thing doesn’t mean LW shouldn’t fight it.

      Telling people to get over something is just making it easier for people to be taken advantage of.

    2. Be Gneiss*

      Wouldn’t it be more productive to encourage the LW to advocate for a policy change at their organization, and then give an update on how it went…and then try something similar where you work? If you feel something is unfair, the solution isn’t for it to be unfair for more people. With that mentality, nothing ever changes for the better.

      1. JFC*

        I don’t really care about the policies at the LW’s workplace and any attempts to change ours would go over like a lead balloon. My point is that some people don’t realize how good they have it.

        1. HonorBox*

          Then why bother commenting? This is a forum to get and give advice, and telling someone to get over it isn’t constructive advice. Just because your workplace’s reimbursement policy is far less and asking for it to change wouldn’t go over well doesn’t mean that a LW can’t advocate for themselves and their workplace.

          1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

            Yes! Why read an advice column if you’re just going to say “get over it.” I’m hoping JFC can start to have a better day.

        3. Be Gneiss*

          There’s always someone who has it worse. In Alison’s response, she says an employer can decide not to reimburse mileage at all. By your logic that “some people don’t realize how good they have it,” it sounds like you don’t realize how good you have it. You should be happy you’re getting anything at all.

          That’s not a productive or helpful mentality.

        4. Irish Teacher.*

          But having it better than others doesn’t mean people shouldn’t look for better conditions themselves. It’s not like just not being the worst means that you shouldn’t try to do better. Pretty much all of us in the western world have much higher wages and often better conditions than people in a lot of other areas, but that doesn’t mean that unions shouldn’t strike for raises or that people should put up with dangerous working conditions because there are other jobs where people have to put their lives at risk to a greater extent.

          1. Antilles*

            Exactly.
            Let’s assume that LW does indeed have a very good job in most aspects. Does that mean she shouldn’t try to improve the things that can be improved? Of course not.

        5. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

          Including you. Some people don’t get reimbursed at all. Some people don’t have cars. Some people don’t have jobs… ad nauseum. You have contributed nothing here with your jealousy.

          1. CommanderBanana*

            This is the Well, Some People Don’t Even HAVE Sandwiches! rule of the Internet.

        6. Peanut Hamper*

          Maybe you—yes, YOU!—should be looking for a better job.

          If only there were a website that gave out lots of free resume and interviewing advice…

  54. WantonSeedStitch*

    OP #2, if you want to avoid people offering inappropriate pity about the fact that you’ll be a single parent, you could say “I’ll be raising the baby on my own, by choice.” That makes it clear that this was your decision without giving away personal info. Best of luck with everything!

  55. On the couch, with the cat*

    LW2: there is a wonderful nonprofit organization called Single Mothers by Choice that has been providing support and community to women in your situation for decades.

    I’m a long-term member–my daughter, conceived via anonymous sperm donation–is in her late 20s. Literally thousands of families have been part of SMC over the years, from all over the US and in several other countries. women become moms both by birth and by adoption. (And if you joined, you would not be the only person with the conditions you mention.)

    SMC has a lively online community and many cities in the US have chapters who meet in person. women at all stages of the journey are welcome, whether they are just thinking about motherhood, are taking steps toward becoming a mother, or are already a parent.

    I’m not putting a link in here because I can’t remember Alison’s policy on outside links, sorry! putting Single Mothers by Choice into a search engine should get you right to us.

    I know I sound like a shill but I have gotten so much help from the organization over the years. Members helped me figure out how to explain things to family, friends, coworkers, and total strangers. How to talk to my child at different stages of her life. I had somewhere to vent when things were driving me up a wall, to share my daughter’s challenges and successes. Some of the women I met through SMC are among my dearest friends.

    As for my daughter? She’s terrific. Love her to pieces. Best thing ever.

    My best wishes to you!

  56. Fiona*

    “How do I explain to people that yes, autistic people want to be parents, and they may do it unconventionally but it doesn’t make them less of a parent or mean their child is worse off?”

    You definitely *don’t* need to (and shouldn’t!) explain this to anyone! The only way to convey this sentiment is just by…doing it. People will take their cues from you. If you happily announce you’re having a baby, your colleagues will be be politely happy for you. If you announce it with a lot of hand-wringing and justifying, that will be very confusing for people. Save the more complex and nuanced discussion of your child’s genetics and your own neurodivergent parenting for friends & family.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      Yes, absolutely. I’m not saying OP isn’t going to come across this attitude, ableism is real, but if they do come across someone questioning an autistic parent, the response should be more along the lines of “What on earth…?” or “you need to educate yourself about autism” rather than “Oh, here is my explanation”.

  57. Anne Shirley Blythe*

    LW1, I am picking up my jaw from the floor. How unbelievably insensitive and cruel. Report this crap human being ASAP.

  58. Three Owls in a Trench Coat*

    #2 – I’ve had a couple of colleagues who had a pregnancy/children without a spouse or partner. No one in my department ever asked if it was planned, who/where the other parent is, donor questions, etc. What we wanted to know was: Is anyone planning an office shower? How are you feeling? What plans do we need to make for your parental leave? How’s [child name] doing? Can I see the baby photos? Where’s the extra copier paper?

    If anyone was curious, they kept that to themselves. One of the colleagues confided in me that she hated intrusive questions from her family about her kid’s origins, so I made the point never to ask. I think it was her very low key of advising me to mind my business (and I’m glad she did that).

  59. Dandylions*

    #1 I also recommend you seek employment at larger global mulit-national companies. These places tend to be highly diverse and less likely to have asswipes who think it’s ok to mock an accent or speech impediment.

  60. Hyaline*

    LW2, I feel like you’re very focused on wanting to “control the narrative” about your choices. That impulse makes sense–you want to be ahead of any misinterpretation or even nastiness by controlling the narrative. But forgive me, combined with the way you’ve described wanting to control for your kid’s psych makeup as well…there’s a lot of trying to control for the uncontrollable happening in this letter. Look, having kids is one of the least controllable things you will ever do. Getting pregnant is unpredictable, even with medical intervention. Pregnancy and childbirth are unpredictable. And that’s all before introducing another entirely self-contained human person who will not, I promise, follow the plans you have for them–from their naptimes to their homework to whether they become a Nobel laureate or a convicted felon. Get used to letting go of control–start by letting go of the impulse to control what your coworkers think of your family situation.

  61. North Wind*

    OP3, it seems like a stretch to assume your 2 employees are meeting with your manager, but even if they are, I expect it’s fine. My skip-skip-level manager sent me a meeting request a while ago just to check in and see how things were going. I mentioned it to my manager and he said, “Great, I’m glad [skip-skip-level manager] is keeping in touch with folks”. It was really nothing to do with my manager.

    What’s noteworthy is that this is making you anxious – that’s something you can address. Why don’t you set up some time with your manager to check in and ask how things are going from their perspective? You probably have regular 1:1s with your directs, be sure this is a safe space for them to bring issues to you, and ask them directly if they are experiencing any challenges which you being remote that they’d like to discuss (or challenges about anything really). They may not say, some people aren’t comfortable or take awhile to get comfortable being that open with their manager, but you could at least try.

  62. Maudite Entendante*

    Re: #2 – it might also be worth not volunteering a lot of detail in the workplace because, if you have a lot of ND co-workers, at least some of them may hear “I don’t want my baby to be ND” as “my worst-case scenario is having another person like you in the world.”

    To be clear, you know yourself and your own experiences best, and decisions about your reproductive methods are unreservedly yours to make! I cannot emphasize this part enough.

    *And also,* this particular decision might take a fair amount of very careful and nuanced conversation to fully explain in a way that won’t put strain on any of your work relationships. And frankly, that amount of impression-management sounds like an excruciating hassle that you might want to avoid entirely (especially among people who never needed to know that much information in the first place).

  63. Spinner of Light*

    LW1: By all means report that interviewer to the company! You might want to take a very *concerned* tone in your report, too, reminding the recipient that you’re CERTAIN that their very reputable company wouldn’t want to violate the ADA in any way – even accidentally. Just the mention of ADA violations (and the resulting hailstorm of bad publicity) should be enough to make any halfway decent HR department sit up and take notice of the fact that they’ve got a pontential disaster in that hiring manager!

  64. Fellow NonTrad Momma*

    Hi LW2, fellow non traditional parent here. I, a hetero woman, had a baby with a gay man and in our case we coparent. Our child lives half time with each of us, we make decisions together, we share everything.

    When I had my child, I had been in my job for a number of years so they knew I wasn’t partnered. I just said matter of factly I was having a baby with a friend and we were going to coparent. I cannot remember any instances where people were not respectful of my choice and challenged or judged it. Semi often people’s faces wondered how that baby came to be, but almost never actually said anything inappropriate. If it came up, I just made some glib comment about having a baby as a result of medical technology and left it at that.

    I also was able to connect with a local single moms by choice (SMC) group on Facebook and a subreddit. Both have endless discussion about what to tell people (family, coworkers, teachers asking about who to make the Father’s Day card for, etc.) and your child.

    Good luck! Being a parent is the best thing I have ever gotten to do, and if it is something you want to do, I hope it works out for you.

  65. DivergentStitches*

    AuADHD here and I just wanted to offer support to LW #2 and wishing them a happy, healthy baby!

  66. Fluffy Orange Menace*

    That hiring manager absolutely infuriated me! My son has a speech impediment–he simply cannot say “R”. He had years of speech therapy and if he concentrates and emphasizes it, it’s close, but when he’s tired or speaking quickly, etc… it can hard to understand that he’s saying “for” for example. He was mocked quite a bit thru junior high but once he became a 6’2 football player, that seemed to stop. But, it’s still very much a sore subject for him and if someone treated him that way I’d lose my mind. PLEASE report that hiring manager. She’s a menace and shouldn’t be in charge of ANYONE.

  67. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    #3 my first thought is if both employees and the manager are in person and have a block on their calendar that there might be something going on at that time. We put blocks on our calendar when there are fire drills or alarm tests. It could also be a meeting about moving desks, that there’s going to be HVAC work, etc. Something physical that wouldn’t affect OP or others working remote.

    I’m wondering if the OP just looked at their bosses and employees schedules and saw the block, but if they were able to look elsewhere they might see other people in office have a block too. Unless the OP has been given feedback that they aren’t doing well they should not worry about it. There are 100 other reasons that all 3 have a block and very few of them would be anything with the OP.

  68. Timothy*

    LW #1, This is disgraceful behavior by the interviewer — making fun of someone’s speech is unbelievably rude. You should definitely report this.

    In Canada, we have lots of immigrants for whom English is a second (or a third) language. Their accent may be a challenge, and their vocabulary may be limited, but you work with what you got. That’s common courtesy.

  69. Gollum's Favorite Hobbit*

    LW2, first, congrats on your plans! I know the challenges it can take as a single person to prepare to support another person individually, and it sounds like you’ve thought through it very carefully. This is tangential, but I want to add something because it seems like a major reason for your donor conception is because of genetic concerns. If you are in the US, donor conception is largely unregulated, and cryobanks can (and do) lie about their donors’ genetic profiles. You may have already done your research on this and found a trustworthy source, which if so, ignore this and carry on! If not, a good starting resource is Laura High on TikTok (@laurahigh5) — she’s a comedian who is also an advocate for donor conceived persons, and has nuanced, thoughtful, and entertaining takes on it. Another good place is We Are Donor Conceived’s intended parents guide. I hope this is helpful, and good luck on your journey!

  70. musical chairs*

    LW #2, you don’t have share anything you don’t want to. With anyone.

    As you determine for yourself which boundaries you employ with different people, there may be one thing that’s important to keep in mind. I have some of the conditions you describe in having yourself/are willing to go to great lengths to not pass on to your child. I know you’re resolute in your thinking and don’t fault you for it all. It’s also not self-evident or universally, objectively reasonable to hold the position that we should generally do whatever is needed avoid having children with disabilities. There’s a lot of pain and suffering and nuance in the conversation. For the disabled, their families, and caregivers.You’re in the community, so I’m taking about with you as kin. And I’m not at all trying to change your mind.

    All I’m saying is you should treat discussion of your reasoning here as you would any other controversial, but deeply held opinion you may carry : know your audience, be clear, and if it’s important to you, try to minimize harm when sharing.

    Because, not gonna lie, that really sucked to read. When people talk about casually about not wanting to have a child with the same conditions as I do (even and especially when they’re familiar with it and have given it a lot of real thought), it’s just…tough. Again, I’m not even slightly hinting or suggesting you change your mind. I get what you’re saying. It’s still a cruel sentiment to share with a wide audience, even if it’s hard-won and deeply true for you. I just want you to hear that perspective or the future.

    1. disgruntledexpocrecruiter*

      I’m sorry – it sucked to read but Deal with it. There is a reason we get all called snowflakes because of discourse like this. Instead of being able to add to the professional conversation at hand and the very specific instance and situation, it gets turned into a lecture about identity (which is extremely important but because everyone is doing it everywhere now like this comment all the time, people are getting cluttered, it is getting drowned out and becoming worthless.)

      I am also neurodivergent and for the longest time did not want to pass on my genes for the same reason as the LW. Sorry it sucks to read but LW was asking for professional advice not to be admonished because someone feels butthurt about something that is in fact, a reality.

      Having a child at all is something to do with extreme intention. Having a child AT ALL is difficult. If you know ahead of time that you do not have the capacity or capability to raise a differently abled child with everything they deserve, you should not do it. And I commend people like LW for having that self awareness and I am starkly against people putting out irrelevant holier than thou judgmental commentary like yours.

      LW is neurodivergent and knows what they are talking about from their experience and spoke as such. They do not need a lesson in speaking about their own community from you because it was hard for you to swallow.

      I am sick and tired of all neurodivergent people being referred to as overly sensitive and emotional and whatever other jabs are thrown at us because some of us lack self awareness.

      Does it suck to read and process and hear? Yes. Does it negate its truth? Absolutely not.

      1. Allict*

        I’m not sure it’s quite fair to take out your frustration with how we’re treated on the person commenting here.

        People do indeed treat us badly for having feelings. The problem there is not that we have feelings, it’s that we’re being treated badly. It might be worth imagining saying something like this to. say, a black person saying racism is hurtful.

        This is a lot of anger and projection (there is nothing “holier than thou” about this comment) to throw at a stranger who also doesn’t deserve to be treated poorly.

      2. musical chairs*

        I encourage you to reread my comment. It was abundantly clear that I do not fault the letter for landing where they do on this topic.

        The main crux of my point is to treat the divulgence their position on passing on disability more carefully, including in professional contexts. They are literally asking what is appropriate to share in this sensitive situation and I added something that was not covered in their letter or in Alison’s response. That’s all that’s happening here. Saying something “sucks to read” and “is tough”is pretty mild. That was intentional.

        It’s clear from your response that you align yourself with the letter writer, and find yourself judged by my reaction to your shared position. I am not judging you. I am simply offering my perspective (to the LW) as someone who is also neurodivergent. Just something for them keep in mind.

        It is the height of irony to have this outsized reaction to a sentiment I did not express (no truth was negated, and I did not admonish the letter writer) and then refer to my comment as an example of snowflake-adjacent behavior.

      3. Dris*

        It absolutely falls under professional advice to let the LW know that sharing their aversion to having children who fail to conform to ableist societal norms in a workplace would be inappropriate. LW is likely to encounter coworkers with divergent and disabled children or who are themselves part of those demographics, and hearing that rhetoric could open LW to (entirely valid) HR complaints. It is LW’s choice and entirely their own business, and they also really shouldn’t ever discuss things of this nature in a workplace. LW’s feelings are valid; thought crimes don’t exist. Sharing them in a workplace is unnecessary and insensitive though.

      4. Irish Teacher.*

        I would say the reason “we” all get called “snowflakes” is because some people get defensive on being called out and don’t want to address their own biases.

        In my experience, the people who call others “snowflakes” are the most easily offended and are doing so because they are offended. It’s because the complaints are valid and not over the top that those who use those terms get offended and resort to them, because they know they cannot win the argument with logic.

        I have never heard people say all neurodivergent people are overly sensitive or emotional, but if they do, it is because the people saying it are ableist and are offended at being called out on their ableism. It’s due to lack of self-awareness on the part of the people saying that, not due to lack of self-awareness on the part of those who are neurodivergent.

        Basically, people who call others “snowflakes” are doing so because of how “sensitive” to criticism and easily offended they are, not because anybody else is sensitive or easily offended. It wouldn’t matter what other people did; they would react to any criticism by calling those criticising them “snowflakes,” because it is just a way of diverting valid criticisms.

        I would also say that it is most emphatically not true that neurodivergent children are more difficult to raise than neurotypical children. It depends very much on the child. There are some ways in which neurodivergent children are more likely to be difficult to raise, yes, but there are other ways in which neurotypical children are more likely to be difficult to raise. And none of these things are true for all of either group.

        None of this is to criticise the LW. She knows best what she can cope with and she also knows the specifics of how autism and ADHD have manifested in her family and I have no doubt she is making the best choice for her.

        But there is a false narrative in society that neurodivergent children are inherently more difficult to raise and this has led to some pretty horrific stuff where children who are neurodivergent are blamed for even other problems in the family. I very much doubt the LW shares this narrative, being neurodivergent herself, but I do think it is reasonable for people to point out that some of her coworkers may have been harmed by the false narrative, eg assumed to be at fault when siblings bullied them, and may therefore find it hurtful when somebody does not want a neurodivergent child.

    2. CommanderBanana*

      I agree with you and I think your comment was very sensitive and kind. I’m also neurodivergent and have depression and family history of mental illness, and that’s a factor in my not having had children. I can understand the LW deciding to use a donor egg and sperm.

      That being said, there’s no guarantee that her eventual child won’t be neurodivergent, or have depression, or have some other mental illness. That’s the reality of having children. It’s a dice toss with the highest stakes.

  71. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    1. I really sympathise. After years of therapy I managed to get my stammer down to ‘when stressed only’ but it was pretty severe. There were people at work who used to mock me or worse, finish my sentences (don’t do that, it’s really rude) but for an interviewer to do it?! That’s like having your doctor do it.

    Like any kind of ableism or bigotry it’s up to you whether you have the energy to report it, but I’d say that the act of fighting against such BS does get easier the more you do it. I’ve spent over 25 years disabled and I will not take that kind of crap anymore.

    Get a hold of a higher up, or their HR and complain.

  72. Purple Cat*

    Oh LW2 – You do NOT need to share all of those details. At all, whatsoever.
    Now people WILL likely be surprised that you are expecting if they haven’t heard of any relationship. So when you announce your pregnancy, just cheerfully say “I’m expecting!” And when you get some surprised looks, just say “Very much planned and I’m excited.”

    Anybody that wants to pry for more information is rude.

  73. Susannah*

    I’m blown away that an employer would expect people to use their personal car and gas for a work-related trip and then… not reimburse them.
    Why would anyone donate $$ to the company employing them?

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Baffling. My jobs always provided company cars with company fuel, or prepaid public transport, or taxis repaid in full within days.

      They pay me to work, not the other way round.

  74. Laszlo Whitaker*

    LW #2, I strongly encourage you to seek out adult donor-conceived people to make sure you’re familiar with best practices before getting pregnant. The group Donor Conceived Best Practices and Connections on Facebook is a good one. Best of luck on your parenting journey.

  75. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    LW#2 – Hi from fellow neurospicy – I do know that one of my traits is to think all potential conversations to their most invasive and worst possible outcomes. Which has led me in the past to preemptively overshare details and backstory that nobody needed or cared to know.

    If you are like me, script writing these scenarios in my head is really difficult to avoid. Practice erasing the long script that invites further questions and replacing it with scripts that are short and terminal. I’ll go on walks and imagine these long conflict filled or uncomfortable conversations and actually stop myself and picture the backspace key deleting the conversation to the point where it went south and practice the short conversation ending script.

  76. Birdy*

    As a Massachusetts resident I sure wish I had realized mileage was supposed to be reimbursed when I was at my last job… It was all just quick trips to the hardware store so it wouldn’t have been much, but it’s the principle

  77. Dris*

    To LW #2: There is no reason you could have for using a sperm and egg donor that would be anyone else’s business. None. You could be doing it because you hate your looks and don’t want to pass them down. You could be doing it because you think it will piss off your parents. You could do it because you were told to in a dream. It’s no one else’s business, no matter how curious they are.

    That said, there are two things to consider. One, you will be doing your colleagues a *favor* by not telling them, especially the ones who are raising neurodivergent and disabled children of their own. Because I guarantee these parents have been asked why they didn’t “screen” to prevent such undesirable offspring. And I know as a former “difficult child” myself, it would devastate me to hear someone talking about how averse they are to having a child anything like the one I was. So please don’t open that can of worms, especially in a workplace.

    The second thing: please consider preparing for the possibility that you will have a disabled, different, or “difficult” child no matter what steps you take ahead of their birth. And at minimum you’ll need to guard against believing they will have a superior genetic destiny to their neurodivergent peers, and be careful not to project comparison onto your coworker’s “difficult” children.

  78. Hedgehug*

    LW/OP#1 this is one of the worst things I have read on this site. I am so, so, so sorry.
    Adding to the support pile of reporting her. I can’t even imagine how she treats her coworkers. I would report this as an act of service to the company and staff.

  79. Sash*

    for the egg sperm donor LW. PLEASE Make sure you have looked into the ethical issues around sperm banks. it is a completely unregulated process, and many of them lie about who donates and how often they donate. there’s no way to know that your child won’t be related to many children in the local area.
    crucially, there is no way to know that they will not have any of the neurological differences that you want to avoid. mostly because many adults are undiagnosed!
    Look up Laura High on tik Tok, she’s a donor conceived person who has found 100 other people with the same male donor as her.
    good luck on your parenting journey

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Let’s:

      1) Assume LW has done their homework and are comfortable with a decision they have already made.

      2) Not rely on TikTok as a valid source of research. You can say whatever you want to on there; it’s not like anyone is checking your homework.

      1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        But the person they are talking about has a valid standing. She isn’t just spouting nonsense. She’s been on national news and have been fighting to get donor conceived people the right to medical history. She’s done protests and such at the capital. You can look her up on tiktok and instagram. She’s got a whole following and movement going on about trying to get people rights to information. I think it started when she had a tumor and was trying to find out medical information. Through social media she is bringing to lite the ethical issues.

  80. Mary Beth*

    Hi LW #2! I’m where you hope to be soon: a single mom by choice to a nine month old, conceived via donor sperm and egg. I expected a ton of questions and got almost none. At work, I announced I was pregnant at 19 weeks. One conservative coworker said “I didn’t know you had a partner.” I just said “I don’t. I’m doing this solo.” And that was the end of that. Everyone has been incredibly nice and supportive, treating me no different than any other new parent. I don’t keep her genetic origin a secret, but it’s nobody’s business at work. My family and friends, even my religious extended family in the Deep South, know that she’s donor conceived and not a single one even blinked. They’re just excited to have a new baby around.

  81. Sharon*

    LW3: You can try something like “She’s cute, but totally not a clone!” to anyone who makes rude comments about your baby’s complexion or dissimilarity to you.

  82. It's Fine*

    Props to you #2! I’m the child of a mother who chose the path you’re thinking of. As far as I know she used her own egg, but otherwise everything is exactly the same – no partner, anonymous donor. Her preferred phrasing was always to tell people she was a “single mother by choice”.

    I don’t have any profound advice, but I will say I am incredibly grateful every day that she raised me the way she did. It wasn’t all rosy of course, but I’m very proud of how I have come out and the ways her choice directly influenced my outlook on life (families don’t always look like 2 parents + kids, women don’t need to conform to traditional expectations to do the things they want to do, family is more about who you choose than blood relations, I could go on and on).

    I wish you the best fortune whenever you begin to move forward with your plans!

  83. Allict*

    I sincerely hope that if a letter had come through talking about how awful being black is and how the writer never wanted a black child because everyone knows how difficult they are such a thing wouldn’t be published without comment. And I certainly hope the comments wouldn’t then be full of people talking about how we need to face the hard truth that black children are just more difficult and not wanting one is totally understandable.

    Unfortunately things it’s not okay to say about any other group are still fine to say about the disabled. Disappointing, but sadly not surprising.

    1. Dris*

      Yet another day I’m glad they haven’t found an actual “gay gene” too. Ugh.

      And I say this as a person who would rather not have to deal with multiple disabilities, or with the trauma that resulted (for example, I was not considered “gifted”; I was a special ed kid who was in the room when a teacher shamed my parents for “wasting time and energy” on me when they had other, better children to raise). I spent *decades* wishing I wasn’t queer too, but those feelings, while totally valid in homophobic and transphobic society, wouldn’t justify me telling people “I just would never want to have a gay/trans kid, it’s too difficult a life for them and for me.”

      And no one’s personal experiences, feelings, or trauma, no matter how real and painful, justifies apologia for eugenics.

      (And I sure hope no one commenting or reading this post believes the related rhetoric about vaccines being too dangerous to children because it’s better to risk them dying of preventable illnesses than risk them growing up to be an adult like me).

      1. Letter Writer #3*

        I get that this is an uncomfortable topic which does require an understanding of disability history, but it also is a far cry from what you are suggesting and I find your comment absolutely disingenuous. I don’t run the country, I’m not making public policy, and I think there is a wide gap between someone with a known and identified condition that wants to refrain from passing that onto their child and state sanctioned selective breeding of an entire population to achieve perfect human specimens.

        Being a woman loving woman and disabled, I’ve been probably close to if not where you are and this is not an attack on you, the disabled community, or a plan for the future of humanity.

        1. Dris*

          I apologize for not being clear; I was mostly talking about some of the rhetoric in comments I’ve seen in response to your letter, rather than the letter itself. But if nothing else hopefully this makes clear why this would not be an appropriate thing to disclose in a workplace. As I said elsewhere, your feelings are valid and your reproductive choices are solely your own. Of course it’s not an attack. But it shouldn’t surprise you that people – especially those of us also dealing with significant life difficulties related to our disabilities – have strong feelings about a topic that bring up things for others more broadly than just your individual circumstances and interior feelings. Many of us (myself included) have been straight-up told not to procreate for the very reasons you outlined for opting to use donor eggs. So please understand that putting your feelings on this particular topic out there risks bring up a LOT of pain for others because we all exist in a larger context of a society that punishes difference.

          1. a trans person*

            Agreed. OP, your reproductive choices are absolutely your own and are absolutely beyond reproach. AND ALSO if you described your reasons at work like you do in the letter, and I were your coworker, I would feel unsafe around you probably forever. Please keep to more neutral and vague descriptions at work.

    2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      As someone who is the guardian of a person with severe mental handicaps, and has grown up around various people with various disabilities, I understand where you are coming from. However, the OP has a right not to pass down her genetics to a child who more than likely will have some of/similar neurodivergence.

      I see her choosing not to have a biological child the same way as when a person who has a severe medical condition chooses not to have a child so that the child does not have to go through the same experience. Would you say this to someone who has a hereditary neuropathy disorder?

    3. nnn*

      Alternately, people are allowed to talk about their own firsthand experiences of themselves.

    4. Letter Writer #3*

      Personally, I find this interpretation disingenuous and avoiding what I actually put down. I want to have a child who does not get my genetic conditions which are present and do actually cause a great deal of pain and suffering. I consider this on the same par as someone with cystic fibrosis choosing to use a donor sperm because they don’t want to risk their child having their condition that they’ve lived with since birth. Is that person equally bad and on par with someone who is choosing to not have a black child for arbitrary reasons?

      This comment section is not full of people celebrating that ‘disabled people have it hard’ and ‘not wanting a disabled child is just fine because disability is bad’. You’re missing the middle part which is a disabled person is explaining their lived experience and sharing their perspective on what they want to do when it comes to children. These people have taken what I’ve said at face value – my disabilities are difficult and hard to live with, I don’t want to pass them onto my child, and how to I explain to people that this is the choice I’ve made?

      Disability is complicated. It runs through every single aspect of our lives and everything we do is impacted by it, including how, when, and in what way we have children. We may disagree on that. I support people who treat having a disability much more like the Deaf community – they embrace it, do not consider it a negative, and treat it as a normal part of life for them. I can’t do that and it’s not how I perceive my disability. It’s okay to disagree. I accept that my perspective is based on the experience I have just as yours is and I’m sure, if we talked, we could probably find common ground even if it wasn’t this issue.

      I just don’t like the way you’ve turned this into a ‘anti-disability’ thing and framed it very much as an extreme on par with race in way that casts aspersions on both my motiviations and on every other person in this comment section which I believe to be unproductive .

      1. musical chairs*

        I don’t think anyone is doubting your lived experiences or wishes, or saying you should make different reproductive choices. You posed the question about what is appropriate to share and a few people are telling you that certain elements of what you said can be pretty harmful, especially in a workplace/captive audience. One that you say has more neuro divergent people than average. We hear what you’re saying, and cast no judgment on your decisions for yourself. We’re answering your question about what to say to others.

        No one takes anything anyone says purely at face value. Everyone comes into every conversation they have in the context of what they know and feel, either from their own experiences or from the stories of others around them. You don’t get to decide that people should only engage with you without context. You also don’t get to live outside of the context of longstanding conversations and histories that have come before you.

        *I’m Black person, I don’t love the comparison Allict has made a few times on this post to racism for a lot of reasons (disability justice can stand on its own), but the comparison is not completely unparallel. There is a way that the avoidance of genetic disability is taken as an obvious good that is worth pushing back on in a large audience. You are not in a one-on-one conversation. Even if you aren’t prescribing it for others, you did not signal in your letter that you understood the context, writ large, even though you caveated what you imagine others may say about parents. It makes sense that people would think that you’re not aware of that element of the larger conversation and would seek to make you aware, still in good faith.

    5. DisgruntledPelican*

      It’s almost like being black and being disabled are two separate things.

  84. Specks*

    #2, I don’t exactly know why, but the way your question is written made me really want to give you a hug and also suggest you consider additional therapy to process how you see yourself, your childhood, what you owe other people, etc. It might be that there is so much justification and agonizing over what you’re doing, how to explain it to people, etc in the question. As a fellow person with… not the most standard/idealized genes… your choice is valid. Your life is valid. You owe nobody, nobody an explanation about your history, your health, or your reproductive choices. When you have a child, nobody except for them is entitled to their history, health, or other information. Anyone “othering” you or your child because you don’t fall under what they expected can go fly a kite. Good luck with your journey.

  85. Anonomatopoeia*

    LW 1: OH MY GOD. If there were a way to report WITH FIRE, I would say do that. That hiring manager needs a lot of free time to consider her life choices. For example, perhaps she could spend the 40 hours a week she was previously employed doing that. That’s just so gross I cannot.

  86. Caryn Z*

    #1 is just horrifying. I would say something. OK re: the baby one, nobody’s business.

  87. Red Wheel Barrow*

    I think the comments to OP2 illustrate why it may be best to share your reasoning behind your method of conception only with people you’re closer to. People who know you well may be more likely to hear this as your own, intensely personal decision, and less likely to take it as an implied judgment on their their own reproductive choices, experiences with disability or neurodivergence, child rearing decisions, and so on.

  88. Sheworkshardforthemoney*

    As someone with a speech impediment, I would pursue on a formal level, not only a note to their HR but also cc whoever is above them in the food chain. It’s unacceptable.

  89. Anon Lawyer*

    I had my second kid totally solo. No one ever asked who was the other generic parent or about whether it was my genes. When she was born and anyone ever said anything about her dad I generally say she sprung forth from my skull fully formed like Athena from Zeus. Gets the point across that I did it on purpose by myself and also none of their GD business.

  90. Silverose*

    Regarding the mileage reimbursement, if staff track what the get vs what federal rate allows (and keep the record of such), staff can also claim the difference on federal taxes if they itemize expenses for deductions. It’s a pain in the rear, but perfectly legal so long as it’s only the difference of what their employer didn’t pay them up to what federal allows. Check with a certified tax preparer for guidance on it. I’ve worked in nonprofits a long time, and most don’t pay the federal rate; I’ve known coworkers who keep their records to do the itemized deduction of the difference come tax time.

  92. Suzie*

    #2: I don’t know, I disagree with Alison’s advice a little. My take on your goal here is to make the announcement with a minimum of fuss and ongoing questioning. I think if you just announced “I’m raising the baby alone”, people might have some questions or there might be some gossip about who the father is. Which you would then have to either answer or Not Answer, but might be stressful for you.

    I completely agree that most of this stuff is no one at work’s business, but you do need to acknowledge human nature. First thing is to not announce anything until you’re pregnant. Then you simply announce: “I have some great news to share! I’m pregnant!”

    General congratulations follow, but at some people someone realises they’ve never heard you mention a husband. A question is delicately asked.

    NOW, you simply respond, casually: “Oh, I had IVF.”

    And there the conversation really can stop and people can butt out and you can say, “Oh, that’s a bit personal. I’d rather not talk about it at work.” But the main question that might incite gossip (identity of father) has been answered. You did not have an ill-judged affair with anyone at work or anything like that. You simply had IVF.

    1. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I’m with you, Suzie. I’m always slightly leery of advice to refuse to say anything at all, probably because I come from a family that looooves to speculate but is entirely supportive of a wide range of life paths. In a vacuum of information, people can fill in some weird stuff and I feel like what you’ve put here is the best. Put a hard stop at disclosing anything beyond that (as we see in the comments, the why’s of LW’s choices hit people in some very personal ways), but I think it’s not a bad idea to divulge the absolute minimum.

  93. one superb owl*

    LW#2, I’m in the same boat as you (but much further behind you on the path) and it’s incredibly reassuring to see someone else making the same decision that I intend to for the same reasons! I wish you and your future child all the happiness in the world.

  94. Tansy*

    OP #2, I am going through similar-ish thing where i needed to use donor eggs and my husband’s sperm. What I see missing from these comments is that it is strongly recommended to be open about the donation both with the child and your close circle, so the child doesn’t feel like they are some big secret or stigmatised or lied to. Some of the recommendations encourage the parents to talk openly about it with as many people as possible, so that it no longer is a “big deal” to your mind, you get comfortable talking about it, and then you won’t have a tone or a paranoia about who you told and who you didn’t, which can leak onto when you talk with your child.
    I am pregnant with donor eggs and my husband’s sperm, and I did find it initially hard telling people about it. But the more I do it, the more comfortable I become.
    While you shouldn’t tell work if you absolutely don’t want to, or have reasons to believe you’ll be treated poorly, I found just telling my team I am pregnant and it’s a donor egg due to medical reasons, and then moving onto other pregnancy questions worked really well. It helps that I don’t have to remember who knows and who doesn’t, and it becomes less scary the more casual the conversations become. You could do the same – I’m pregnant, it’s a donor embryo for medical reasons, I am so happy and excited! etc

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