my daughter has lost two jobs in one year, are laundry products included in office fragrance bans, and more

by Alison Green on July 22, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. My daughter has lost two jobs in one year

My 44-year-old daughter has been fired from two different employment agencies in the last 12 months. The first time, the company did not give a reason. The second time, the company said budget cuts were the reason.

I understand that it is entirely possible that the firings might have nothing to do with my daughter’s work performance or attitude. But how many times should this happen before it is reasonable to suspect that it is because of her work performance or attitude?

The reason I ask this is because she has appeared extremely stressed and tightly wound for at least three years. It is to the point where I spoke with her last year about seeing a therapist. I gave her examples of ways I see her stress affecting her husband and children. I wonder if her attitude at work is similar.

She has not gone to a therapist. I am concerned that if I speak to her about therapy again, she may react negatively or think I am blaming her for the these two job losses. Her husband has already spoken to her. Should I stay out of this?

Stay out of it. It’s possible that her behavior at work has contributed to the two job losses. But it’s also possible that it hasn’t, and there’s no way to know. (Twice in 12 months could simply be bad luck.) If you knew for sure — like if she told you she was fired because she had a screaming meltdown — well, even then you’d need to tread carefully unless you have a very close relationship. But in this case it would be pure speculation, and you’d be intruding into an area of her life (her career) that she hasn’t invited you into.

It’s natural to care because you’re her mom, but trying to guess at what happened at work when she hasn’t asked you for help carries a high risk of feeling invasive and boundary-crossing to her.

2. Are laundry products included in office fragrance bans?

Thankfully, this isn’t an issue at my workplace because most of us use laundry products that have little or no scent, but are the heavily fragranced detergents and fabric softeners that have become so popular included in office fragrance bans? The kind that are touted as leaving a “fresh” (read: huge amounts of chemicals) scent on your clothes for weeks? I’m asking because I went to a museum last week and ended up with a horrible headache and sore throat from being bombarded with laundry fragrances I could smell from 30 feet away. Even if I didn’t have a chronic respiratory disease, the odor would have been A Lot. At work, it would make it hard for several of us to function due to asthma and other issues. I’d love to know your thoughts on this.

Yes, typically offices with fragrance policies include heavily scented products of all kind, including laundry detergent.

Whenever this comes up, people ask how an employer can regulate what products you use in the privacy of your own home. You can use whatever products you want at home, but your employer does have the right to say you can’t come to work smelling heavily of fragrance.

People also tend to want to know what happens if you’re, say, using the one and only affordable laundry detergent that doesn’t make you break out in hives and it happens to be scented. If you have a coworker who can’t breathe because of the fragrance, then it’s handled like any other situation with dueling accommodations: your employer needs to look for solutions to accommodate both of you (which could be things like seating you far away from each other, having you meet with each other by phone rather than in-person, etc.).

3. I need to cunningly find out 40 names

I am terrible with names. I’ve always worked in small teams where it didn’t matter that I didn’t know the name of the person in some other wing of the building. Now I’m at a smaller company with 50-odd people — been here four whole years. To be honest, I’m supposed to know more names. Most people know mine! In fact, I have long kitchen convos with people whose names I still don’t know. But it’s been so long, I simply can’t ask them! And asking someone else to reintroduce me to 40 people who think I already know them doesn’t seem like an option either.

This is my own doing. Everyone has a fatal flaw that would kill them in a Greek tragedy, and this is mine. But I am now determined to stop the wheel of fate, and figure out who is who and remember who does what. Do you have any suggestions? Alas, we don’t have a website with handy mugshots.

You need a confidant! Pick someone who you like and trust, explain the situation, and ask them to discreetly help you learn people’s names. You could even take a walk around the building together with them muttering names in your ear as you pass people. (Although it will be way too overwhelming to remember 40 names all at once, so this will need to happen slowly over a period of weeks.) I would be delighted to do this for someone, and I bet you have some coworkers who would be too.

4. Requesting vacation time with a friend/coworker

A few months ago I started a job that I was referred for by my best friend. We now work together in the same department, but we haven’t let on how close we are because I’m a woman and he’s a man and we want to avoid gossip (I’m also gay but that probably wouldn’t stop their fun if word got out).

We were hoping to take a trip together at the end of the summer but our managers are likely to try to get whoever doesn’t ask for the time first to cover for the other if we don’t admit that we’re taking the time off to spend together. Is it better for us to go in to talk to our supervisor together or should my friend be the one to speak to him since he has seniority? I feel awkward talking about our personal relationship at this point and I’m not sure what the most professional way to go about this is.

The big question is whether you can take vacation at the same time. If you’re each other’s cover, vacationing together right now might be unrealistic. But if that’s not the case — if it’s more like you’d be the default coverage but something else could be arranged if your boss knew the situation — then one of you should just tell your boss point-blank what you want to do and ask if there’s a way to make it work. That should probably be your friend since he’s been there longer and has the more established relationship with your boss.

That said, once you do that, the cat is out of the bag — people are going to know you’re closer friends than they had realized since it’s not reasonable to ask the boss to hide that for you.

(Also, in some cases it might be odd if it comes out that your friend recommended you without disclosing that you’re a close friend. If it was more a referral than a recommendation, or if he stressed that he couldn’t vouch for your work, I’d worry less; it’s hard to say without knowing more details, but consider whether that’s something to factor in too.)

5. Can I apply with a new version of my resume soon after using the old version?

I have a question about sending different resume versions to the same company. A couple months ago, I applied for a job at a large company and sent my resume. A week later, they emailed me that they decided to cancel the job posting, but to please apply to any new ones that may come up. Since then, I have revamped my resume. Everything on there is accurate of course, but it looks very different and has some different details. So, my question: If I find another job that I want to apply to at this company, would it be weird to send the new version so soon? I imagine they have my old one on file.

Totally fine to send the new version. It’s unlikely that they’ll bother to compare it to the old one, but it’s not a problem if they do (assuming the job history and other key facts match); people change up their resumes periodically.

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  1. Archi-detect*

    For #1 that is a super difficult type of situation to help with unfortunately- after nudging a few times there isnt much you can do. It is often said therapy can only work if you want it to and accept you need to work on something; that is the angle I would approach from- trying to help her see that, but softly, rarely and in relevant cases only

    1. Brain the Brian*

      This is very true. I do also think that LW1 needs to accept that their daughter’s life is her own now. She’s 44 and has a husband and children, and I’m sure she can manage her own professional life competently now. How many of us have been secretly a little annoyed at parents meddling in our careers well into adulthood? Breathe, LW1 — your daughter’s got this.

      1. James Pruitt*

        Whatever happened, job security does seem to be more elusive these days. Often, companies have regular busy cycles, and sometimes hire a small army during these periods only to let them go after maybe a few months. Some are honest about it, others aren’t.

        1. Olive*

          And I noticed she said “employment agencies” instead of “companies”. If these are contacting agencies, it’s a lot more common for a contract to end sooner than expected than if she was hired as a full time employee by the company.

          1. Cinnamon Stick*

            Exactly. I spent several years as a contractor. The axe can fall any time for any reason. One place simply decided, “We’re getting rid of all contractors.”

      2. MsM*

        Yeah, I’ll take LW’s word for it that the husband has also noticed and is concerned, but I have to wonder how much the daughter is already extra-defensive around Mom because she knows she’s being judged.

        1. Carl*

          Yes, I have a reasonably good relationship with my mother, but given the dynamic of mother-daughter relationships, my mom could tell me my house is on fire, and I’d bristle. Not many adults want to hear from their parents what they are doing wrong. Because most adults spent 18+ years hearing what they’re doing wrong from their parents.

          1. wordswords*

            Yeah. Your concerns might be fully justified and your suggested solutions completely appropriate, LW1, but you may just not be the person to help nudge your daughter toward taking action on them. Which is so hard! It sucks and it feels awful to see someone you care about getting in their own way and not being able to do much about it! But if your daughter is already feeling defensive, you may simply not be able to do anything but support her and make it as easy as possible for her to take whatever steps are needed, whenever she can or does, without hearing a mental maternal I-told-you-so about it. (I’m not saying you would say that, so much as that she might hear it in her own head anyway — sometimes even fully competent adults can get their back up preemptively about parental advice. I know I’m prone to that kind of prickly stubbornness, and I have a wonderful mother and a great relationship with her! And yet still, every time she gives me unsolicited life advice, all my defensive hackles go up as if I’m a teenager again, whether or not she’s correct.)

            So this may just be something that someone else is going to be better positioned to influence her on, if influencing is needed.

            1. Worried Mom*

              I agree completely! As you stated “it feels awful to see someone you care about getting in their own way and not being able to do much about it.” That is my issue, not my daughter’s issue.
              I also know that I hated it when my own mother gave me any advice. So I shouldn’t be the one to say anything.

              1. Boof*

                Sorry, I didn’t realize you were the LW before!
                … I honestly do think you have standing to say something, it just probably should be more about “name the problem” and mutually come up with solutions, if appropriate, rather than just offering advise. From what I’ve gleaned from your letter and comments here, it’s not really clear that the attitude has impacted work (you haven’t written that you know she was fired because of it), so I’d steer clear of that; you have witnessed her snapping at the kids (?) and it’s within your standing to try to address that (you can address any bad behavior happening in front of you in various ways), either in the moment or after folks have cooled down, and there’s a lot of ways to trouble shoot that depending on how it goes

                1. Mad Harry Crewe*

                  Eh, I would revise “mutually come up with solutions” to “ask if she wants help coming up with solutions.” Don’t start with the assumption that she wants or needs a solution. Start with asking what (if anything) would be helpful.

              2. tree frog*

                I sympathize with this–I tend to be a bit of a “fixer” and always want to try to help people I care about by offering advice. It makes me sad to see someone I care about suffer and not be able to do anything about it. I have been trying to make myself understand that being emotionally supportive is often the most truly helpful thing I can do, and actually can make a huge difference.

            2. MigraineMonth*

              LW1, it sounds like your daughter is going through a rough time. Maybe instead of advice, you could try giving support and appreciation?

              If your daughter was, like many working moms, juggling a full-time job with larger-than-her-share housekeeping and childcare responsibilities, there are very good reasons for her stress that “therapy” isn’t going to be sufficient to address. Consider that the expectations to “have it all” are ever higher thanks to social media pressure. So you have a full-time job, but is it a *career* in your *passion field* that is *making a difference in the world*? Yes, your children are healthy and happy, but are they spending to much screen time while you try to get all the cleaning done? Are they eating processed foods, which are the only ones that they can eat in the car as you shuttle them from one extracurricular activity to another to get them admitted to the prestigious preschool that is now part of the ridiculously competitive university admission process? Is someone going to call CPS on you because you let your 9-year-old walk home from the bus stop on their own or your son wear the pink sparkle shirt he picked out? Not to mention the expectation that you keep track of where everyone has left their shoes, backpacks, wallet, keys, ballet shoes and phone charger; schedule all the medical appointments; arrange playdates; keep track of birthdays and plan parties; and remember trash day and remind your husband to put the bin out. On top of that, are you being a good citizen, getting out there and being politically active, volunteering, giving blood? Are you supporting your friend who is going through a divorce, and mediating your husband’s difficult relationship with his mother-in-law? Are you exercising? Eating well? Staying up with current events? Reading? You need to do it all, then get up tomorrow and do it all again.

              Finally, are you taking sufficient care of yourself? Because making time for hot bubble baths, relaxation, and *mindfulness* is also your personal responsibility.

              1. Reluctant Mezzo*

                Also, some people see therapy as Just Another Appointment they honestly don’t have time for, especially if the laundry is piling up.

              2. Nonym*

                What you described is exactly the type of stuff therapy can help with. If she has absorbed this insane and impossible list as expectations and “shoulds” – and worse, if she has become convinced that failing to do all of that makes her a bad mom, wife, or woman -, then it’s no wonder she is anxious or depressed and she needs to let go of that warped thinking and establish realistic expectations and a kinder way to approach “failing” to meet her standards. I’m not necessarily saying it’s the whole solution (it might be) but that’s part of it and it’s also the most achievable part. And that’s absolutely something therapy can help with.

          2. A perfectly normal-size space bird*

            I immediately reacted with “run screaming” because this is the kind of thing I could hear from my own mother. When something negative happens, her default is to assume I was at fault and every choice I make is the wrong one. I’ve lost plenty of jobs due to budget cuts, reorgs, and contracts ending early but to hear her tell it, I’m a flake who was always fired because I did something wrong. She was just visiting this weekend and we’re still engaged in a cold war over a waffle iron.

            1. ferrina*

              Lol! This sounds a bit like my mother- whatever happened to me was my fault by default. It makes it impossible to go to her for advice. At one point I needed help trying to figure out if my partner was mistreating me, and my mom’s response was to assume I was leaving something out and my partner was justified in what they did. I assumed she was right and I was asking too much; years later after I had broken up with that partner, I realized how badly my mom had let me down by assuming I was at fault and basically giving my (misbehaving) partner a free pass.

              My mom is always looking for how I might be at fault so that she can give me advice, and it ends up really causing a lot of harm. I can’t go to her for comfort when I’m feeling sad (because the conversation inevitably turns to how it’s my fault for feeling sad); I can’t get a gut check from her (because she’ll decide that the thing is my fault, whether it is or not), and I have to be ready to be blamed when I talk to her (it doesn’t happen every conversation, but it happens often enough that I always have to be on guard). It means that our relationship will always lack intimacy and vulnerability, because I can’t trust her to be sensitive to where I’m at emotionally.

              It sounds like the daughter in this case hasn’t asked for anything from OP, so OP needs to stay out of it. Proactively blaming the daughter will just push her away.

              1. Harrowhark*

                Yeah, I’m in a similar boat. I can tell my mom literally anything about the world, events, other people, a new scientific discovery, etc., and she’s like, “Oh, that’s so interesting. I wonder how it effects / helps [related things].”

                If I tell her so much as one single tiny thing about me — even if it’s 100% positive — she immediately jumps in with advice.

                Bad thing happened to me through no fault of my own? She’ll tell me all the ways I should have done something differently, all the way up to not driving my usual commute route because then I would have avoided that very-rare one-hour traffic jam. (Which I should have known because of… ESP??)

                Good thing happened to me based on actions I took or sheer luck? She’ll tell me all the ways I can make the Good Thing even better or ensure that it will be repeated.

                JUST ONCE I’d love for her to say, “I’m sorry that happened; it must suck.” or “Oh, that’s so interesting!”

                And, yes, I have told her that if want her advice I will clearly ask for it. Multiple times. So now I just respond with massive snark.

                Me: “I’m headed outside to mow the lawn.”
                Her: “You’re going to use bug spray, right?”
                Me: “Why would I do that? I *love* being eaten alive by mosquitoes. I mean, I haven’t had Zika or West Nile yet; that could be fun, don’t you think?”

                I’ll be 58 this year. I am a member of AARP. I have a Master’s degree and am in upper management. I do NOT need my mother’s advice on anything at this stage of my life.

      3. Don’t Ask Alice*

        … except she might not “got this.” I’m thinking specifically of a relative of mine in her early 50s who shows a facade of competence to many, but she is an alcoholic, mentally ill firestorm to those she is closest to. She is so spectacularly two-faced that she has turned other relatives against me … until they start to receive the same treatment from her. I’ve received apologies when she turns her bizarre text and phone call rants onto them. “I had no idea you’ve been dealing with this all these years.”

        Not saying this is what is happening with the letter writer’s daughter but the assumption that age + spouse + children = competence, well, it is condescending. Those are just social markers, not signs of success.

        1. Observer*

          … except she might not “got this.”

          True. But still not something that the LW can really do anything about unless and until she gets “invited in.” That’s the unfortunate reality.

          And it’s HARD.

        2. Boof*

          Even in this scenario though, telling them (again) to get therapy won’t help; they’d be better served by joining al-anon for family (or equivalent programs) themselves to figure out how to best handle it / halp

      4. Always Tired*

        Also, unless the husband has been confiding in OP1 about his wife’s struggles, it could also be that being around a nosey parent sets OP’s daughter off.

        I say this as someone who seems a little stressed but doing well to most people, who also yelled at her mother after being told for the third time in a single weekend “the best” way to deal with ants while my apartment was full of ants and I was in the middle of acts of genocide while trying to find their entry point.

        OP1, your daughter may be willing to be more vulnerable in front of you, because you are her parent, and/or you are so busy trying to be “helpful” that you send her over the edge. Also keep in mind that when there are cuts it is often last in, first out, so she very likely was one of the newest hires when they were deciding cuts, and a lot of tech companies and adjacent services to such are making cuts right now. Instead of telling her what to do/what she is doing wrong, what if you ask about how you can help lighten her load?

    2. Allonge*

      I have also seen suggestions of going to therapy taken as ‘So you think there is something wrong with me???’ – rightly and wrongly. It’s still not an inappropriate thing to do! It’s just tricky.

      But OP – is there a way you could lessen the stress on her life in practical terms? Does she have time for herself / rest? Has she asked for help in something?

      1. Worried Mom*

        I babysit the children 3 days a week (for free). I repeatedly encourage the parents to go out on date or each spend time doing something individually, and offer to care for the kids. I occasionally take the oldest child to my house for the day. My hope is to lesson the stress of raising small children.

        2. bamcheeks*

          I WISH I had a parent doing this for me and I’m sure it makes an amazing difference! I suspect it’s also this closeness and the fact that you see each other so much that makes it harder for you to distance yourself from your worries about her, and probably on her side her fear/resentment that you’re worrying about her. The thing about mum and daughter relationships is that so often the voice in your head is so much an echo of what your mum thinks that even when the mum is carefully NOT SAYING the thing, the daughter still suspects you’re thinking it and the inner sulky 15yo automatically activates.

          This isn’t really work advice, but if you want to support her emotionally, as well as all the fantastic practical support you’re offering with childcare, I would suggest trying to make space to listen to her non-judgmentally. Sometimes just making space for someone to focus on their needs and emotions is all it needs to get them to recognise that they do need to get help, or sometimes having that space is all the support they need. Good luck!

          1. softcastle*

            I’m going to screenshot this comment for my own personal therapy on my mother/daughter relationship–thank you!

          2. Lydia*

            Follow up recommendation to listening non-judgmentally is to look for tools on active listening, if you’re unfamiliar with it. It takes practice to learn, but it really will help yu hear what she needs and what she’s going through.

        3. AJ*

          I don’t know where you’re based, but there’s also the fact that therapy can be really expensive. If your daughter has lost two jobs recently, she may not have the funds available for it. This may feel like yet another demand she can’t meet, or another way she is disappointing you. If she’s job seeking, and has a family to look after, she may not have time either.

          If you talk to her and she does feel like it might help, then maybe offer to pay for it, or help her with the practicalities. Advice without offers of assistance to back it up often comes across as criticism.

          1. We're Six*

            And not to be all “not everyone can have sandwiches!!!” but your daughter may have the time, the money/sweet insurance benefits (via her husband’s job), *and* a plethora of therapy options in her local area…but those therapists aren’t taking on new patients at all. Or their earliest openings are for another 6+ months out. Or they don’t take insurance at all/anymore and the cash price is too prohibitive. And it’s not like therapists are sitting around cackling at all of this. They’re not thrilled either about being stretched too thin to take on new patients, or having to move away from dealing with insurance companies (at least based on the ones I know). Life just kind of continues to suck for everyone.

            It’s also possible that even without those ideal conditions, your daughter already tried all available options to her…and didn’t really get anywhere. It happens. And like others have said, a bad therapist is usually worse than no therapist (whoo boy how true). Especially if that bad therapist doesn’t take insurance. Or you’ve now maxed out your mental health benefit for the year on that bad therapist and can’t start over with either of the 2 remaining therapists in network, within a 40-mile radius, who are actually seeing new patients before May 2025, for the condition you might have (i.e. you’re looking for a therapist for possible depression and their practice only focuses on “childhood ADHD testing” or something).

            Sorry for the writing a novel but the pandemic-induced shortage of behavioral health suppliers to demand still hasn’t improved much and that’s before we get into the mom-adult-daughter dynamics at play.

            1. Pita Chips*

              Or they don’t take insurance at all/anymore and the cash price is too prohibitive.

              Sadly, this is more and more common these days, especially for a practitioner who also does their own appointment setting and billing. Dealing with insurance companies on top of that is just too much.

              1. We’re Six*

                Yeah there’s a therapist I really clicked with whom I’d love to see again for counseling. But he stopped taking any insurance even before COVID and it just got to be too cost prohibitive even back then. I totally get that he did what he had to do but it’s not really something I can budget for right now.

            2. Nonym*

              I agree with everything to say.

              I just wanted to add, in case that info is helpful to a reader, that many therapists practice online these days, so you might be able to find help remotely if it isn’t available locally. I mention it because I’ve found myself in a situation where going in person wouldn’t really work, and I was glad to realize I could still get the same help virtually.

              1. Betty*

                Most still need to be licensed in the state where you are, though, which can complicate things.

                1. Coffee Protein Drink*

                  They do. Open Path has a large pool of therapists licensed in different US states. I think if you have a financial hardship, sessions can start as low as $60. That isn’t great, I know (I can buy a week of groceries on that!), but better than upwards of $300,

        4. Boof*

          Lucky! There is a high chance this would be way more helpful for LW1’s daughter’s stress levels than trying to find a therapist (which is hella hard, potentially expensive, and may end up just saying “hey, you need to find a way to take a break!”)

        5. Rebecca*

          Did she take more than 6-8 weeks maternity leave with any of those kids? Because the truth is that is going to be held against her. It’s really, really difficult to reenter the workforce after you stay home with your kids, even for a few years.

          And interviewing sucks, because people hear “I stopped working for 5 years to take care of my children” as “you’re unreliable”. That’s not right and it’s not fair, but that’s the reality. So you often end up taking a job that you probably wouldn’t have, because that’s what you’re being offered.

          I’ve been in this position. It sucks. You get a rotating cast of jobs that have horrible toxic workplaces and underpay everyone. Because all the competitive candidates won’t take that job. And you’re not a competitive candidate because you took a few years off (which isn’t fair, but is the reality).

          Eventually, I fell into a niche. Your daughter will too. Just support her as much as you can.

          1. Reluctant Mezzo*

            Yes, I had to explain the gap in my employment with ‘special needs child’ since just having children wasn’t enough.

      2. Green great dragon*

        I think the last para is the right place to start. Free, regular childcare as OP is already providing sounds like an amazing start. There are other possible stresses though – I wonder if OP knows what changed about 3 years ago. There may be other things OP could help with, or there may be no help in OP’s gift beyond support and encouragement.

        Any work issues that may exist sound like a symptom, and not the most important one.

        1. Sloanicota*

          I agree that, if you are concerned your daughter is stressed and struggling at work (and maybe at home) the best thing would probably be to be supportive in the realm of your relationship with her, rather than trying to get into her employment practices. It sounds like you already offer her a lot of practical support. If she doesn’t want to talk, she doesn’t want to and you can’t make her, although you can offer (like a teenager – you can’t make them talk but you can set up situations where they might feel more comfortable talking … it was the car for us. Long cozy drives out to the country always got us talking). You can’t make her go to therapy if she doesn’t want to. Could you spend some self care time with her – spa day, maybe? Make the goal just for her to have a nice relaxing time, and that’s enough.

          1. sparkle emoji*

            Yes, be the relaxing space for her for a while. For at least the next few months, don’t talk about stressful things unless she leads it there. If there’s a hobby or interest you both share, try to find time to do that with her. She will come to you if she feels comfortable and the time is right. I think you’re doing the right things but it will be on her timeline.

            1. Green great dragon*

              Yes. And, if OP is able, there may be concrete help she can offer, whether that’s financial support if she struggles to find a new job, or being explicit she and her kids can move in if she ever breaks up with her husband, or whatever. OP will have a better idea of what might be needed, I’m just projecting here. Though of course only if OP is willing and able, she’s already offering a lot through childcare.

        2. Pandemic mom*

          One giant thing that was going on 3 years ago was the height of the pandemic, including the start of the massive, maddening gap between people who had kids under 5 who couldn’t get vaccinated [and either couldn’t mask if they were under 2/was like getting a feral racoon to mask if they were 2+] vs. everyone else, and the feeling that there was absolutely no right answer for your choices as a parent (were you endangering your kid recklessly if you had them in group care/doing stuff in the community, or were you screwing them up by depriving them of normal social contact and development?) and constantly shifting school procedures/”pivot to virtual” for school aged kids. It has been A LOT, and I say that as someone who was privileged in about every possible way when it came to care/work stability/flexibility from my employer. I think it’s awesome that LW1 is providing care for the grandkids, but I’d definitely lean in on really trying to emphasize with how hard the past 4 years have been in just about every way for parents, and how what you really want is for your daughter to be happy and thriving and that you’re here to support that in whatever way you can. (I also think that for a lot of people, emphasizing that they *deserve* the support and space to focus on themself that therapy offers can be more helpful than the “something is wrong with you that needs to be fixed” framing.)

          1. Bear Expert*

            This was such a nightmare. I don’t think any parents have actually recovered. Working parents, parents with multiple kids, disabled parents, parents who either got very sick themselves or had family they were responsible get very sick/die, parents who work in healthcare… parenting in the pandemic was Hard to begin with and many, many people had extra challenges beyond just trying to get their kid through it.

            I don’t even know if having older kids was that much better – I remember just absolutely drowning with my family’s situation and trying to find ways it could be better, and running through all of the issues and difficulties I was seeing for everyone trying to raise kids at the time, and it was all awful. We had a decent set up – fortunate enough to have a trusted nanny willing to pod with us, two working parents, flexible workplaces. It was still a nightmare.

            Trying to take care of an infant with no outside help is a recipe for madness. Toddlers without peer involvement or reliable ways to burn off energy and explore. I had a preschooler and virtual preschool/kindergarten with two working parents and having a kid’s first experience with school be virtual was … suboptimal. Older elementary kids still need oversight and help through out the school day and peer interaction. Teenagers have developmental needs to establish themselves as separate from their parents and they weren’t allowed outside or to see their friends in person. Older teenagers trying to apply to colleges or starting college where they couldn’t leave dorm rooms.

            It all SUUUUUUCKED and I don’t know a parent who has really fully recovered. We may not ever.

            I also cosign the framing that someone who has a stressful life to handle deserves and can benefit from additional support, like professional mental health supports. 1:1 therapy may not be the first or last answer though, support groups, meditation, medication that can be prescribed by a GP, there are a lot of options.

    3. Harper the Other One*

      Yes, I came to say this. We have a family member who has had severe clinical anxiety throughout her entire adult life, but because she believes her thoughts/actions are reasonable, therapy has never worked – she always quits when her therapist starts challenging her thought processes. It is awful to watch from the outside, but until she’s willing to hear it when someone says “it this a realistic thing to think/believe,” there’s little we can do.

      OP, one thing you could do is go to therapy yourself, sort of as a model for the benefits. I started seeing a therapist this year because I am juggling a lot of difficult things in my life and telling our family member that was one of the first times that she actually seemed like she was considering the value of hearing the therapist’s input. If nothing else, therapy for you would also help you address the understandable worry you feel about your daughter.

      1. blueberry muffin*

        A relative of mine fell into the same category. It was painful to watch. The best my family could do was to establish healthy boundaries for ourselves.

    4. Jay*

      Could this be a cart before the horse situation?
      If I was in a situation where my job security had gone to nil to the point where I’m loosing two jobs in a year at age 44, I would be tightly strung too!
      This is a pretty normal reaction to having to walk on absolute eggshells at work for a long period of time.
      If she go let go very late in the game both times, as opposed to at the very start of layoffs/downsizings, it might actually be a sign of good performance in a miserable situation. And that can have a person absolutely climbing the walls, especially if she was led on with false hope of keeping her job if only she worked more/harder/did lots of unpaid overtime (which is not at all an uncommon thing, as this site has seen over and over again).

      1. Also-ADHD*

        Yes—one thing that seems common in this market is that unemployment can lead to people entering less than great, less steady situations and lead to repeat issues that escalate stress.

        1. Cinnamon Stick*

          Very much so. The longer you’re out of work, the lower you need to set your expectations as the UI runs out and the savings dwindle. Contracting is often the answer, especially if the company dangles the “we might be able to bring you on full-time” carrot at you.

      2. ferrina*

        This is a really, really good point. You are so right on that the lack of job security could be the thing that’s really driving the stress. When I got laid off, it was because my boss was restructuring the department and it had nothing to do with me. But it still stung so much- I had given that department so much and kept it afloat when it imploded. It was horrible to realize that all my hard work and sacrifice was for nothing, and that I couldn’t have done anything different to protect my job. I felt so helpless and upset.

    5. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I agree. Also people can act differently at work than at home. The daughter may be high strung at home because she is masking at work.

    6. Edie W*

      LW#1: My husband also lost two jobs in one year a few years ago, for reasons that were a combination of bad luck and mistakes / issues on his part (more related to the office politics / relationships side of things than the work itself). After the second job loss, it took a while for him to regain the confidence needed to look for jobs again, but he ultimately found a new position that was a better fit for his interest and skills, and has been in that role for almost five years now. Ultimately he is grateful things worked out the way that they did, even though there were a few really hard years. No advice for you, but just wanted to share a story that things can get better after a situation like this!

    7. Dust Bunny*

      The OP doesn’t say what industry this is but some of them seem to be kind of volatile (looking at you, tech) in general, and that might be a contributing factor that has nothing at all to do with the daughter’s abilities or behavior.

      1. New laptop who dis*

        100%. I’ve worked in tech (mostly agencies) for 25 years and between mergers/acquisitions, feast/famine pipelines, and dot-com implosions I’ve been laid off six times. It’s just how it is.

        1. Carol the happy*

          Maybe not a “Therapist”, maybe a career advisor!

          After I developed cancer and had a divorce, I was desperate a different path. I had 3 little children, and lifesaver parents, but actual therapy would have opened a can of worms I wasn’t yet ready for.
          Meanwhile, my friend was in a field she absolutely adored, until one day she realized that her MS made it impossible to continue. She gave notice and went to her university for a few free sessions with career aptitude advisor. (My old uni also offers this to students and alumni for minimal cost- since life intervenes and makes our original plans unworkable.)

          As soon as I was done with chemo, I did the same thing. My university had an Alumni reciprocal agreement with a few other colleges and universities, so the aptitude testing came first, then Qualification matching to see how many classes I’d need to take to update my resume. In the meantime, I worked retail which gave my ex satisfaction, but got me an employee discount and access to clearance sales.

          There was also a weekly “Displaced And Divorced” support group at the local trade school. (Which was amazing! We talked about everything; it was ~90 minutes and actually started meetings with problems, then options, then solutions. Murdering our exes ala “Throw Momma From The Train”, and Strangers on a Train was NOT allowed….)

          One woman took a welding class from the trade school; she is a contractor, but also an artist now in her free time. Others went to trade school.

          Good luck to your daughter; the longer you’re stuck, the harder the mud sets around the tires!

        2. Carol the happy*

          Career counseling, aptitude tests, change of parallax. Losing 2 jobs can be getting your car stuck in the mud. You spin your wheels until you run out of gas, then the mud starts to harden.

          I had chemo, 3 little children and was surprised with the need for a divorce. Totally stuck. Therapy wasn’t the immediate answer; I needed options, and pathways to take. After chemo, I actually left the medical field I enjoyed and worked retail. (employee discounts, early access to clearance sales, overtime and hours. My kids lived in clearance sale discount clothing for 2 years!) When my best friend wasn’t able to work in her chosen career due to MS, she went to her old college and took some aptitude and ability tests. Alumni got these services for very little cost! (When I found out about that, I did the same because my Alma Mater had a reciprocal agreement with a local university.)

          Therapy can be amazing at helping people- but sometimes it’s not the right fit for the life event, and can even keep you focused on the wrong thing. I wasn’t ready to explore pain and betrayal- I needed a change of scenery and realistic options. And a job with some benefits and overtime pay. At my new job, a few of the women clued me in to a Divorced Survivors group run by the local trade school. Some of the women were learning to weld, do computers, (1989) even do auto body work. (“So now I can smash the hell out of my Ex’s car, and get paid to repair it!!”)
          But the survivors group had 90 minutes divided into 3 loose segments where they looked at the issues we faced, looked at what we needed toove forward, and last was job opportunities, so it wasn’t like a 12-step.

          Good luck!

      2. yay*

        I’m wondering if the causation between “high strung” and “recently lost 2 jobs” goes the opposite way that the mother is seeing- that daughter is stressed out due to precarious employment rather than her stress causing her to lose her job. Mom should probably butt out if she doesn’t actually know.

    8. Boof*

      Yes exactly, LW1 I get that it’s stressful but you will probably do more good by stepping back and just being an available safe space than trying to jump in and meddle / tell her what to do unasked for.
      I’d even go so far as to say I have no idea from the info presented if therapy would be helpful; I mean sure good therapy can be helpful for anyone, just like exercise is almost always a good thing (and please assume I am including appropriate exercise for whatever limitations or disabilities are in play here) – but it’s not necessarily the most particularly helpful thing to solve someone’s main problem. If LW1’s daughter’s problem is say, financial stress or burnout due to balancing work + family, therapy will not address the former and may or may not help not the later; it’ll maybe if they’re lucky address how to try to cope with stress and maybe how to reduce workload, but it could even just add to the burden (Trying to find the therapist, schedule appointments, pay for them, etc just to find one who gives generic or even bad advice you could have found yourself)
      What I’m getting at is LW1 if your daughter seems stressed probably the best thing you could do is offer to be supportive and keep being a safe space for them to unload (as much as you can tolerate). Start by saying they seem stressed and ask what’s going on, and see if there’s things you could help with (taking the kids? Helping with some meals? Paying for a cleaning service? Etc). I would absolutely not offer advice or tell your daughter to do more things unless they ask you for advice, or maybe if you are worried there’s some kind of huge safety flag (unlikely). Again, I don’t know your daughter’s relationship etc, if for some reason you feel like being supportive would be more enabling than helpful for some reason (ie, you suspect a major addiction – not even just substances I’ll say shopping, gambling, hoarding, etc all apply – then helping can look a little different but it’s still possible and you should maybe make the therapy for you about how to effectively help her or her family)

  2. NurseThis*

    Re:#2….fabric softener can be a huge culprit. I worked in an officer where we could smell a specific coworker coming as soon as the elevator opened. You could tell where she went by the scent trail. So many people complained she was confronted and it was a fabric softener issue. Since it was giving people migraines, she was asked to not wear clothes to our office with that intensity of fabric softener. We suspected she was using way more than recommended.

    1. Archi-detect*

      I have banned fabris softener from my house for both the health of the dryer and that the stuff makes clothes more flammable. That is even before getting to the softness being a trick and as you point out the strong smell

    2. Sparqness*

      I use white vinegar as fabric softener. Rinses away, takes soap residue and scent with it, reduces/eliminates static in the dryer, and inexpensive. The only thing to watch for is that it can act as a mordant and set stains and dyes.

      1. Harper the Other One*

        +1 to vinegar! I dislike artificial scents and it’s been an unexpectedly great way to fill some of the things I would use softener for.

      2. Flor*

        I think with white vinegar you also need to be careful it doesn’t degrade rubber; I think that’s maybe more of a concern with front loaders as they use less water and they have the big rubber seal at the front that you do *not* want to damage or your kitchen floods.

        Personally, I’ve never used any kind of fabric softener as I didn’t actually know it existed until my 20s, so I never felt any reason to replace it with vinegar. I wear a lot of natural fibres, though, so if they’re a little stiff after line drying I just have to iron them.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          Same here: We never used it and we line dry unless it’s pouring rain so I’m used to clothes being stiff. I actually like it; chemically softened clothes feel kind of slimy somehow, even if they’re dry.

      3. Elizabeth West*

        I use those wool dryer balls. They fluff up towels, etc. and are recyclable. Also not as hard on the machine as tennis balls, which tend to be harder.

        1. JustaTech*

          And they keep your sheets from doing that burrito thing where the very outside is dry and the inside is sopping wet!

          The only downside to me for the wool balls over the dryer sheets is that they don’t do anything about the static, but I’ll take getting shocked occasionally over sheets that never dry.

          1. SimonTheGreyWarden*

            I love my dryer balls, but unfortunately so does our youngest cat so if they fall out I have to find them before she does or else she rips them apart.

        2. Resentful Oreos*

          Team Dryer Balls For Life! They are not only great at making clothes softer, they are great at keeping sheets and other bigger items from wadding up in my smaller condo-sized dryer. They also act to fluff up stuffed items.

    3. Artemesia*

      the only thing that kept mice from getting into, inhabiting and dying in my Prius HVAC system was stuffing dryer sheets in the glove box and when I was going to be away for awhile in other places like under the windshield wipers where the air intakes are. Access to the AC filter was behind the glove box. Once I started doing that the mice avoided the car.

        1. I can read anything except the room*

          I hung a braid of garlic from my rearview mirror and then drew an unbroken circle of salt around my car. So far, no vampires.

      2. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

        Thanks for the tip. We sprayed peppermint spray and I don’t know if it really worked but it faded pretty quickly. Any particular scent?

      3. cleo*

        We put mothballs under the hood after we found rat and mouse droppings under the hood of our Toyota. The smell was miserable but it worked.

        1. 40 Years In the Hole*

          Every spring tuneup our mechanic would dislodge a mouse nest or two from the hvac/cabin filters(we park in the garage over winter). His rec: grate shavings from a bar of Irish Spring into the cabin filter/intake areas. That keeps EVERYTHING away.

      4. PhyllisB*

        Another good use for dryer sheets is to loosen burnt on food from a dish. Lay dryer sheet in dish, add water to completely cover and leave for a few hours (or overnight.) Works great!!
        I don’t use fabric softener on clothes anymore for two reasons: one, I kept finding oily looking stains on my clothes and finally realizing it was the fabric softener causing it. Even cutting down the amount or diluting it with water didn’t eliminate it. Second reason is because fabric softener coats the dryer filter and restricts air flow which not only keeps clothes from getting dry properly, but can cause a fire. The way to test this is take filter out and put it under running water. If water doesn’t go through, it’s the fabric softener.

      5. AngryOctopus*

        Fabric softener sheets work amazing for cleaning off your baseboards and then having them stay clean.

      1. Fatima*

        We use those, too – they’re great! But we ALSO use the dog hair-removing dryer sheets because our dog sheds literally constantly.

    5. allathian*

      Yes, I can’t stand fabric softeners, I feel sick just walking past the laundry aisle. We only use unscented laundry products. We don’t have a dryer. Air drying works for us.

      My office is basically scent free, but that mostly applies to aftershave, cologne, and perfume, as well as scented hand lotions that you apply during the day.

      I also have a weird sensory issue, cloth must have a slightly rough texture to feel really clean to me. At home I always sleep naked and I hate the feel of ironed sheets next to my skin. All of our sheets are cheap cotton, silk or satin would be unthinkable because they feel slimy.

    6. WoodswomanWrites*

      Letter #2 is bringing back memories from a former workplace. I’m chemically sensitive and one of my colleagues used a highly scented product that affected me every time I left my office. I had a feeling my colleague would not be happy about it, but I owed her an open conversation without escalating it to HR. Although I privately approached her as kindly as I could, she was defensive about the hair care product she used. She honored my request but I think she resented me the rest of the time I worked there. (That was one of many conflicts with staff at that place where I never did fit it, and I was relieved when I found another position where the staff gets along great.)

      1. WhyAreThereSoManyBadManagers*

        Oh same: I once worked (decades ago) with a woman who’d had an arm amputation (as a child) at the elbow. She mentioned to someone who asked that she used a daily linament or oil or lotion on it, but whatever that was was so unbelievably pungent and pervasive that literally the entire office could smell her coming or know if she’d been in the same room even hours previously. I’ve never smelled anything like it since and hope to never again. I left that job after a few yrs but I hope HR or someone eventually said something to her. I find it hard to believe someone could be that nose blind to a self odor like that.

        1. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

          Even before covid, anosmia was a problem for some people, and it becomes more common with age, so it’s possible that your ex-coworker literally couldn’t smell the ointment even when she first applied it. If so, she was probably judging the amount to apply by how it felt, or the texture on her skin, or using a measured amount every morning.

          That doesn’t mean the scent wasn’t a problem for other people, but if there’s no other effective product, it sounds like the appropriate accommodations are things like seating arrangements (so she is downwind of as many people as possible).

    7. Lellow*

      Fabric softeners (and dryer sheets) are also terrible for your clothes, so cutting them out is a win-win!

      (They “work” by laying a chemical coating on your clothes which make them feel soft to the touch, but it also degrades the fibres and your clothes will wear out so much faster.)

      1. RandomNameAllocated*

        Also, for towels, over time it reduces the ability to soak up the water, which isn’t very helpful!

        1. SheLooksFamiliar*

          When I stopped white vinegar in the wash cycle instead of unscented fabric softener, my towels got much cleaner, softer, and more absorbent. You have to enjoy the irony. And the first couple of wash cycles were shocking to me, the water was so grimy and filmy with fabric softener residue.

          2. Fatima*

            You put it in when you start the washer? Mine doesn’t have any way to “catch” any of the different cycles.

            1. SheLooksFamiliar*

              I do! I tried adding vinegar in the wash, and also in the softener cycle only, and never noticed a difference. So I just dump it in to make it easier.

              I’m sure some people feel a difference depending on the cycle so, as always, YMMV.

              1. WeirdChemist*

                Most soaps/detergents are alkaline (basic) and vinegar is acidic, so if you add them at the same time you risk neutralizing one or both of them. So if you can keep the vinegar in a separate cycle from the detergent then that’s for the best. However if what you’re doing is working for you, then keep on with it!

                1. I can read anything except the room*

                  Yes, I reserve the use of white vinegar specifically for laundering things that animals have peed on, and animal bedding (which, in all honestly, they probably peed on a lil bit!). I also use OxiClean, which is very alkaline, so I put the OxiClean in the drum with the detergent, and then dilute the white vinegar (so it’s less corrosive to the rubber gasket) and pour it into the fabric softener dispenser so it doesn’t get added til the detergent and OxiClean have had a chance to do their thing first, and I select the “extra rinse” option.

                2. SheLooksFamiliar*

                  Thank you, I didn’t know this. I’m guessing the vinegar helps the way I’m using it, but not like it could. Now I’m eager to do a load of laundry and see what happens!

            2. Elsewise*

              Downy sells these fabric softener orbs that are supposed to release later in the cycle (they have a little stopper that pops out after it’s been knocked around for a while). I use vinegar in them and it works great!

              Also, I know this has gone very off-topic, so I’ll just add that I hate highly-scented laundry products, they’re the worst.

        2. Dust Bunny*

          I wondered about this! Someone put (far too much?) softener in my laundry once when I was in college (by accident, I assume, thinking it was their load of clothes in the washer) and 25 years later I still remember wondering what the H*ll was wrong with my towel. It faded after a couple more untainted washes.

        3. I can read anything except the room*

          Not even just over time! It’s a waxy coating that sits on top of the fibers and blocks water absorption, it does get worse after repeated washings but you can tell the difference after just one wash.

    8. DryerSheetsNeeded*

      I haveeczema, psoriasis, and a few other skin conditions. I use expensive (coincidentally free of fragrance) laundry detergent but I also use dryer sheets because if I don’t my clothes are too scratchy on my skin. I know the difference is often too subtle for the average person to notice, but even that small effect is sufficient to matter to my extremely sensitive skin.

      1. Donotuseperfume*

        In that case duel accommodations would have to be made, because some people — including me, but not me only — will go into anaphylactic shock when they get a good whiff of your dryer sheets. Everytime this topic comes up someone has to come in here and post as to why they ought to be an exception! Both skin diseases and breathing issues are covered under the ADA. (although, if it did come to a toss-up between the two I would say that being able to breathe would trump scratching)

        1. Ink*

          They aren’t whining. The tone in that comment is actually very neutral. It’s a frustrating issue from both sides, and you’re being very dismissive. You don’t know how bad their reaction to other detergents and lack of softeners is, just like I don’t know how severe your reaction to scents is. Trying to litigate who has it worse is beside the point. We should all be on the same side working to find compromises for conflicting needs like the ones Alison mentioned, not shooting each other down before bad employers even get the chance.

        2. Nuala*

          “Everytime this topic comes up someone has to come in here and post as to why they ought to be an exception!”

          And then 10 other people post about how wearing scents is tantamount to murder and there is absolutely nothing on this planet worse than scent allergies or intolerances, and no way to ever justify the use of any scented product. Amazingly, none of it is ever any help to the LW, but it just continues to happen anyway, every time.

        3. Andromeda*

          My mum has psoriasis and it’s a lot more than just itching sometimes (so is eczema, for that matter, but I don’t have personal experience with that). I recommend giving it a Google to see the kinds of skin issues the original commenter is actually dealing with.

          Also, this is NOT to invalidate anyone’s experience with allergies — I know fragranced products can trigger them, especially with overuse — but this comment section is generally very pro-science and I’d like to keep that energy going with the discussions about fragrances when they happen. For example, anyone talking scornfully about “chemicals”: there are probably more chemical compounds in a piece of fruit than there are in many laundry products. I agree that detergents can smell very overpowering and synthetic sometimes, but let’s name that as the problem rather than suggesting using vinegar because it’s “natural”.

      2. The Rural Juror*

        I also have psoriasis. I’ve been using scent-free detergent with white vinegar in the softener/rinse cycle in the washing machine, then also using dryer balls in the dryer. I feel like my tshirts and towels are as soft as ever. I do have a front load washer, so I keep an eye on the rubber seal ring to look out for wear from the vinegar. I’ve had this machine for 3 years now with no problems there.

        Sorry to hear you have a combination of things going on that compound and make your skin that much more sensitive. It can be a real pain to try to find what works, especially when you’re in the middle of a flare up. I know all too well :(

    9. Essentially Cheesy*

      I think the scent problem related to laundry detergents and fabric softeners is because yes people truly use too much of either or both. There are actual measurements on the caps that come with the bottles. Look at the caps and use the measurements.

      More detergent doesn’t mean more clean.

      1. Fatima*

        I have always hated scented laundry products, but in the last couple of years, my laundry has started to smell musty and gross long after it was washed and dried. I wonder if the white vinegar would fix this!?!?

        1. WeirdChemist*

          I have found that using vinegar does help with this! You may also want to check if your washer itself is the culprit. Make sure you’re prompt about removing wet clothes from the washer as soon as they’re done, and leave the washer door open for a while after use. If you ever accidentally left wet clothes in the washer for way too long in the past, there might be mildew that started growing in the nooks and crannies of your washer!

          1. I can read anything except the room*

            Yes, there are some key “washer hygiene” tips that are specific to front-loading washers, but Big Laundry did a much better job convincing everyone to buy front loaders than they did educating everyone all the ways front loaders need to be cared for that are different than the way you learned when top loaders were all anyone knew.

            One of the biggest of which is: the washer door needs to be left ajar when it’s not in use! Right after the wash cycle, it’s warm and moist inside, and warm + moist + porous surface (the rubber gasket around the door) = mold and mildew. Top loaders didn’t have a rubber gasket and the top door wasn’t an air- or water-tight seal, because it didn’t need to be, so it didn’t matter if you left the top open or closed. As long as you didn’t leave a sock or any other clothes behind, there was nothing for mildew to grow on inside the all-metal drum. Front loaders need ample air and light to ensure the gasket can dry out.

            The other critical thing is that the gasket itself needs to be cleaned, ideally after every wash but at least once or twice a month at minimum. I keep a rag next to the washer and I use it wipe down the gasket after every wash, and whenever I do a load of rags I chuck it in. You need to get in there and push/pull the gasket around to get in between the folds and behind/under it…if you’ve never cleaned yours out and you’ve had your front loader a while you might be sickened by what you’re going to find if you pull the gasket towards you and look at what’s accumulated in between the edge of it and the edge of the drum.

            1. ThatOtherClare*

              Front loaders also do a much poorer job of rinsing than top loaders. I have found by experimentation that it is simply not possible for me to add a small enough scoop of laundry powder or liquid to a load of denim jeans for my front loader to handle. They will always come out crunchy unless I do a second ‘rinse-only’ cycle, no matter what. I’ve tried vinegar, cleaned the machine, every hack and solution you’ve heard of. I assume that the small amount of water used becomes fully saturated with soap and cannot physically dissolve any more. A second rinse cycle does the trick, but so does my mother’s top loader. I am strongly considering switching to a top loader for the sake of the environment, since one (large) top loader wash can’t possibly use more water than four (small) front loader washes, and the idea of solving the problem by adding more chemicals into the environment doesn’t exactly seem to me like a greener solution. I never thought I’d say it, but the ‘beep beep’ of an unbalanced load really was less annoying.

        2. SheLooksFamiliar*

          I swear I am not paid by the American Vinegar Council, but I think you’ll notice a difference very quickly if you wash or rinse your laundry with white vinegar. I don’t use it every time I wash specific items like towels and sheets, maybe every fourth or fifth time. I just use a half to 3/4 of a cup, depending on the load size.

          Also, I’m wondering if your machine needs cleaning. You can find articles on how to clean it yourself; baking soda and – surprise – white vinegar are recommended.

          1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

            Don’t use baking soda and white vinegar at the same time though! it causes a chemical reaction which is fun to watch (make it a science experiment for the kids!) but actually they simply cancel each other out.

            1. The Rural Juror*

              Same with borax! I do use borax in the wash cycles sometimes and then vinegar in the softener dispenser, but they’re going in at separate times in the cycle and aren’t mixing together. There was once when I was trying to get some stains out of some towels and used a heavier dose of borax, so I skipped the vinegar in the initial cycle, then added it later when I did an extra rinse cycle. The towels came out much cleaner!

        3. Kara*

          When was the last time you ran a cleaning/sanitize cycle in the washing machine? And do you make sure to fully open up the washing machine to dry out post-load? (Door, detergent tray, any misc parts that get wet in operation)

          Alternately, are the affected clothes by any chance clothes that didn’t make it immediately from washer to dryer a while back? If so, i recommend washing them again on a hot cycle, then dry them preferably outside in the sun, but the dryer on regular will work as well. (I usually keep mine on Low, so if i forget about a load long enough for it to get that musty smell i have to remember to turn the dryer up)

        4. Erin*

          If vinegar doesn’t work, Lysol also makes an unscented laundry sanitizer that fends off smells well.

      2. Antilles*

        Along these lines, one quirk about using the cap as a measurement is that it’s typically NOT the entire volume of the cap, but something like half-full. If you’re simply filling up the entire cap, you’re likely using double (or more?) the actual amount you need.

        1. Katara's side braids*

          I think Essentially Cheesy was referring to the lines inside of the caps that tell you how much to fill up for different load sizes – not using the entire cap. I didn’t realize that was something people did, but it would certainly explain why some people’s clothes smell so strong!

          1. Imtheone*

            I’ve stayed at Airbnbs where the sheets smelled so strongly of fabric softener that my CPAP smelled for days after I left (even with washing the parts and changing the filter).

      3. Mockingjay*

        I think it’s also because manufacturers are making products with higher scent concentrations these days. They offer the same “clean” scent in multiple products – laundry, dish soaps, floor cleaners, multiuse cleaners. You and your house can reek together.

        No advice except same as Alison. Be mindful in the office and know that we all can be noseblind to ourselves.

        1. I can read anything except the room*

          I think my favorite manifestation of this trend is my brand of deodorant offering a “shower fresh” scent that smells vaguely like generic floral shampoo or conditioner.

          Back in the Dark Ages, European people heavily perfumed themselves with floral scents because they didn’t have access to such luxuries as indoor plumbing to facilitate daily hot showers, and soaps weren’t mass-produced and sold cheaply in every drug store, so perfume was the main viable alternative to stank.

          Now, in the U.S., all but the poorest among us can bathe with a frequency and level of luxury that would make those medieval kings green with envy, but as a culture we still can’t seem to shed the long-standing association of floral perfumes with “cleanliness,” so much so they now have to add floral scent to cleaning products to make them smell “clean!”

        2. Elizabeth West*

          It’s super annoying. I had to get original-scent Tide pods because the store was out of the Free and Clear kind, and I am SO GLAD I’m finally through with them. There was one left in the bag and I tossed it. I do not like that scent at all.

      4. toolegittoresign*

        I think a lot of people start to go nose deaf to the fragrance and then start using more because they want it “to smell clean.” They know they’re using a lot but they don’t know there’s an issue.

        1. Rainy*

          It’s similar to how people who use the same perfume for decades end up using more and more and more over time until it’s basically chemical warfare. The key is to always use the same amount rather than pouring it in/on “until you can smell it”. Because yeah, after a while, you’re just not going to.

          1. ThatOtherClare*

            I went to the theatre on Saturday in a proper N-95 (my boss has an unidentified respiratory infection and I didn’t want to unknowingly spread it). I lifted my mask during the intermission to take my evening medication and was nearly knocked into the next row by the cloud of perfume coming from the person in front of me. I know how to properly fit a mask so I shouldn’t have been so surprised, but it was a very potent demonstration of both how well a properly fit mask works and how much some people drench themselves in perfume. I certainly felt well rewarded in exchange for my considerateness!

      5. Lucy P*

        A contractor for our office has such a strong laundry smell about them that I often wonder if either their rinse cycle doesn’t work or if they overload their laundry with scent crystals. Could be that they’re using too much product.

      6. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        It seems like there are products now that are touted as being EXTRA stinky, I mean fragrant. I wonder if people are getting desensitized to already horrifyingly strong fake fragrances.

      7. Over Analyst*

        Ugh, yes. I live with extended family and my mom and I take turns buying the laundry detergent. I use the marks on the cap but she literally fills the machine’s detergent holder to the max line every time. I’ve pointed it out to her, especially since detergents are more concentrated than they were years ago, but she continues to do it. It’s a little annoying that I’m paying to buy detergent so much more frequently than I should be.

        1. flchen1*

          Can you potentially pre-dilute the detergent to account for this? (Add however much water needed to the container so that your mom can fill to the max line but only use the right amount of detergent?) Obviously this requires extra work on your part…

    10. Wow*

      Or those Lenor Unstoppable things that promise “up to 30 days of freshness”.

      Do I even want to know the amount of chemicals and fragrance that drops on your clothing…?

      1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

        “up to 30 days of freshness” means you can wear your shirt for up to 30 days without needing to wash it???

        I’m horrified! The amount of chemicals needed, the pollution it probably causes…
        And surely there would be so many stains or grubby marks on your clothing after 30 days, you wouldn’t want to be wearing it even if it still smelt fresh!

        1. toolegittoresign*

          No, it means that even if you leave your shirt folded in a drawer or hanging, the scent won’t dissipate fully for up to 30 days. Which honestly can be dealt with by putting an herb sachet or dryer sheet in the drawer or closet instead of coating everything with a ton of fragrance.

      2. Rainy*

        I like the scent beads because they’re separate from my (unscented) laundry powder and oxyclean, so I can add a tiny amount for my preferred level of scent, rather than whatever the default in a scented laundry product is, which is always too strong for me.

        I find it sort of funny that so many people automatically assume that anyone buying scent beads is dumping half the jug in every load–I have had the same container of Downy Light “Ocean Mist” since the beginning of December (that’s 8 months of using it 1xweek) and I think I’m only now a bit past halfway through the jug.

    11. Reluctant Mezzo*

      Scents can also backfire in other ways. One inspector for a bug elimination outfit who had never been attractive to yellowjackets before suddenly discovered all the insects loved her. It did make them easier for her to find them, but she wasn’t pleased. She had also changed her soap to a pleasant vanilla scent. She plans to stop using it and find out if she can regain her immunity.

    12. Tiger Snake*

      The laundry aisle in the supermarket is the bane of my existence, and the only thing I hate more than the fact that I’m acutely aware of my coworker’s laundry preferences is their scented hand cream. (No one ever considers their hand cream)

  3. Eric*

    #3, can you come up with a reason to ask for a floor plan. Then you can assign names to offices, and as you walk around, you’ll then be able to match faces to those names?

    1. bripops*

      I am historically awful with names and when I started a new job my predecessor (who had already left so there was no overlap) left a floor plan of the office with names and headshots from the company website. it was only about 20 people but I had everyone’s name and desk memorized in three days, it was amazing

      1. MsM*

        That’s such a good idea! I might talk to my colleagues about putting something similar in our orientation packet.

        1. Busy Bee*

          My organization stood up a little over 3 years ago, and only a couple of people (out of 40+) knew each other. My boss created a PowerPoint template where we complete our name, birthday (month/day only), family, pets, favorite color/food/vacation spot… and a picture. It’s now sent out as part of our onboarding packet to new hires, and stays within our office only. We periodically update with things like a new spouse or cat. One person was excited to remove her husband after their divorce was final. (People are welcome to share as much or as little about themselves as they want on there.). We are hybrid with some fully remote so a desk plan wouldn’t work, and not very many people are on LinkedIn.

          So maybe something like that, so the next new (ahem) person knows has an idea who people are when they start?

      2. Miette*

        I came here to suggest you should look on the company website to remind you, but this is an even better way to use that resource! It might also help to put the headshots into an org chart, so you can see interdependencies.

      3. MigraineMonth*

        At one of my previous jobs, we had personal profiles with ID photos. An employee with too much time on their hands wrote up a game where it would show you the pictures of people from your team, office or building in a random order. If you could write in one of their names/nickname, you got a point. If you couldn’t, the picture was moved onto the “names to practice” list.

        It wasn’t the most fun game ever, but useful.

    2. Pink Sprite*

      Or just draw one before you go. It’s like what teachers do when putting together their classroom seating chart.
      Draw by hand or on the computer and fill in the names.
      With that, I could usually have about 85% of my students’ names’ memorized by day three. Middle school teacher with 180 kids. :)

      1. linger*

        I’m awful at remembering names, and despaired when teaching 200-300 students a year (N.B. each class met only once a week, making memory retention harder).
        Nevertheless in certain classes (most notably, drama) it was essential to know everybody’s name by sight to get any evaluation done; and I did eventually succeed there, but only because (i) I had a full class list [though, no assigned seating], and (ii) I could direct students to do specific things (including addressing their other group members by name). Coworkers, alas, generally don’t have those advantages.
        If all colleagues are in-office, things like taking round birthday / condolence / congratulations cards for others to sign could be one way in. Though admittedly it’s harder to get into that sort of role until you’re already socially integrated into the work group.

        2. I can read anything except the room*

          I had one lecturer in college who insisted on “assigned” seats specifically because he was teaching a couple of sections that large which also met only once a week. I put “assigned” in quotes because he didn’t assign them to us, but we did have to assign ourselves a seat and then stick with it all semester. Since not everyone who comes to the first lecture ends up staying in the course, he used the first week to let us know that whatever seat we picked next week would become our seat for the whole semester, then he had some system I only vaguely remember involving index cards he collected during the second week that we all wrote our names and row/seat number on, which he used to fill our names into a seating map that he’d keep at the podium, so when people raised their hand he could call on us by name and keep track of who was participating – which I’m sure also helped him avoid calling on the same people too often, as when multiple hands went up he’d be able to see right in front of him who had been called on the fewest times thus far.

          I only spoke up a handful of times in the whole semester, less than once per weekly class, but when I went to his office hours one week about 2/3 of the way through the semester for feedback on an assignment in progress, he appeared to know my name without having to consult any chart, which even at the time I remember thinking was really impressive.

      2. Media Monkey*

        i do this in meetings. draw the table and write the name of each person i don’t know as they intro themselves. so much less embarassing than having to ask afterwards.

    3. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      +1 for a floor plan. I made one for my own devices to help me learn names, and it ended up being used for other new starters.

      Some people find name learning easier than others, but it’s undeniably easier for the fifty people learning one name than for the one person learning fifty names!

    5. I take tea*

      But this doesn’t work with hot desking, alas. My work life became a little harder because of that. I can’t figure out who is who based on where they sit, because they switch around.

      1. Angelinha*

        This actually helped me because in most hotdesking systems you can see who reserved what desk!

        1. I take tea*

          That is good when you have a reservation system. Ours is one where you usually just sit where there’s a free spot. Only the one person rooms can be properly reserved.

    6. allathian*

      Our smart cards for logging in to company systems double as ID badges. In theory at least it’s a fireable offence to leave your computer without grabbing the smart card even if you lock the screen. My problem is that the font is too small for me to read without invading the other person’s personal space soit doesn’t help as much as it could.

      I’m terrible with names, I still don’t know all of my coworkers’ names and I’ve been here for nearly 17 years.

      I’m in Finland and here you can have long conversations without ever mentioning the other person’s name. This is helpful in avoiding embarrasment but it also makes learning names more difficult.

      1. Office lady*

        I tend to have issues with this. I can take a while to get to know everyone on a team, especially where there is a group that shares a lot of common traits (for example, many of the software engineers at a recent form I worked at were about the same age – fresh heads to about 2 years out – and male, and they all sat together in the office.

        Our office manager had a floor plan on the internal wiki that was kept pretty well up to date and it was a godsend. Cross-referencing location with LinkedIn photos really helped, as did focusing on anything unique (grew up in Wisconsin, played the same sport I did in school, has a twin, etc). My memory can have a weird time-space-emotion connection, so connecting those three with the photo really helped.

        1. Office lady*

          Sorry about the typos!! I meant to say “at a recent firm I worked at” and “fresh GRADS”, not fresh heads.

      2. Lady Lessa*

        Many years ago, I had a phone conversation (about 30 minutes) and the man thought I knew who he was from his voice, and it was only at the end that I knew whom I was talking to. So, I can appreciate the challenges. I, too, have trouble with names.

        1. allathian*

          Yes, I’m so glad that we’re almost exclusively using Teams for voice calls. Unless I work with someone often enough to recognize their voice, I won’t catch their name even if they say their name at the start of the call. My org is too big for me to have all employees in my contacts.

    7. WoodswomanWrites*

      #3, I empathize with you. I was hired remotely for my current job during the pandemic and didn’t meet many of my colleagues in person for more than a year. Then other people were hired but since most of us work at least half-time remotely on different schedules. I’ve also noticed that I’m forgetting names and faces more as I’ve gotten older. I’m embarrassed when I run into a colleague in the kitchen who says hello and I can’t remember there name.

      Alison’s advice for a confidant is spot on. I have a colleague who has cheerfully agreed to answer my questions about who is who–and what their roles is in our org chart–without judging my forgetfulness. It’s a huge help!

    8. Chauncy Gardener*

      I always do an org chart with photos whenever I start at a new company. Granted, that’s one of the things I’m in charge of, but it helps everybody!

    9. blah*

      Pair it with an org chart, too! It won’t necessarily help with all 40 names, but it could make it easier by going, “oh that’s James, who reports to Sylvia, which is why their work spaces are near each other.”

    10. Raisin Walking to the Moon*

      My trick for learning a couple hundred new student names every year has been to privately write out sentences describing them and including their name. “Mailbox Mouth is Devi,” or “Peppermint Gum is Shauntae.” I try to make the descriptions memorable, which means it’s nothing you’d want anyone else to see. But at least for me this really, really works.

    11. Momma Bear*

      Floor plans are sometimes available on the company intranet and you can carry one around as a cheat sheet while you pretend to deliver something or take the long way around to a printer or get lunch. You can also look at org charts to see who is in line with/on a team with who. But I also hope OP doesn’t sweat this too much. We had several tall, dark haired, glasses-wearing engineers and for a while I had no idea who I was talking to in the kitchen. Just the other day one of my coworkers and I realized we had two people’s names backwards. It happens.

      1. Betsy Careless*

        We have a ‘getting to know you’ wall at work. Everyone has a photo, what their role is, a couple of things about themselves they want to share and how they like their tea/coffee. If you have space for one maybe you could volunteer to be the person to organise it and have everyone send their info to you?

    12. Aerin*

      I was going to suggest something similar: come up with a reason to confirm the spelling of everyone’s name. You’re checking on the company personnel listing! You’re making everyone cute nameplates! (This can just be a nice little printable.) You’re updating your contacts! If you do it for everyone, even those whose names you are pretty sure you know, it will feel less personal for everyone.

      On the last point, you can even come clean a little bit: You’re generally terrible with names and faces, so you’re filling out your contacts with full names and photographs. Would they mind if you snapped a pic and confirmed your info?

      I sympathize. I blame the Mouse for destroying my memory for names and faces–super high turnover made me overly reliant on nametags, and directly interacting with tens of thousands of people a day did the rest.

  4. Sylvie*

    For #3, LinkedIn can be really helpful for putting names and faces together (if your coworkers are on the site anyway). I’m also not great with names, and this has helped me

    1. Brain the Brian*

      Yes! I don’t put much stock into anything else on LinkedIn, but this is one case where it would be really helpful.

      Side note: when we started to come back to the office post-pandemic, my company had us each send in a photo of ourselves to HR, and they attached it to our office door (or cube wall, in the case of those of us who have cubicles) next to our name plates. It worked really well helping to put faces to names, especially since we were coming in on staggered days at the time.

      1. Learn ALL the things?*

        My office has a photo directory on the intranet. We’ve got around 300 people, so it comes in handy quite a bit!

        1. Brain the Brian*

          That would also come in very handy, if we ever implemented it! The photos-on-office-walls trick worked well for our own office, but we have over almost two dozen locations, and I never see people from our other offices in-person. If I’m in a Teams meeting with anyone outside my immediate functional department (which *does* span multiple locations), it’s likely a big town hall where everyone but leadership has their cameras off to save on bandwidth. Most of us don’t bother with Teams photos because the default avatar (the person’s initials) is more helpful in an audio-only call.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        I work remote, so I know everyone on my team by name. Faces are harder. Whenever we meet in person (1-2 times a year) I have to ask the person who never turns on their camera who they are, much to their delight. (They also also have dramatically different facial hair every time.)

    2. Awkwardness*

      Came to say this. Try to get hold of an org chart, then start with google and LinkedIn.

    3. bamcheeks*

      If you have Teams, you might have an Organisation tab which shows you who’s who and the org chart too.

      1. Harper the Other One*

        Yes, and sometimes people add their headshots to Teams so you might even get some faces that way!

      2. Antilles*

        This was going to be my suggestion. Teams and/or your company internal website typically have a nice org chart (possibly with photos!) that is a good reference.
        Also, if your job is one where people need to keep company format resumes for marketing purposes, you might be able to dig around the network and find a bunch of resumes with headshots there.

    4. emmenndeecee*

      yes agreed! LinkedIn and just plain old fashioned Googling will help; love the idea of marrying it with an org chart. The LW definitely needs to spend some time on this, and using as many tools as possible will be a huge help.

    5. Frosty*

      This could even be an opportunity for your organization to create an internal org chart with photos! I’m also not great with names and I’m always thankful for my organization’s picture directory.

      Even just encouraging folks to put their pictures up on Teams could be a way to narrow down the field.

      I’m sure you know names AND faces but just haven’t put them together. :)

  5. Update away*

    LW5: there is literally zero chance they would care about your old resume.

    Go ahead and update it without concern.

    1. Update away*

      Replying to myself.

      This is my experience as a hiring manager anyway. Your personal circumstances may of course be different and there’s always someone.

      But just speaking for myself, even if I remembered that you had submitted a resume earlier, I’d welcome an updated version.

      As long as they were updates and not about someone who seemed completely different, of course.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I think the answer would be different if you were reapplying to the *same* job after just one month, which might make you look disorganized. In this case, it’s a different job *and* you’ve explicitly invited to apply.

    2. Resume please*

      LW5 writing in, thank you! Good to know!

      Yes, jobs, dates, facts are the same. Format is a bit different, I took out my graduation dates, emphasized different details and wording, moved and removed some things, etc.

      1. Trick or Treatment*

        Just make sure that when you apply with the new resume, the ATS is actually using the newly uploaded file. I’ve had a malfunction before where it still tried to fill the application from my old resume (which was 3 years old and lacked important recent experience, so of course I noticed). I’ve heard from a few other people too who this happened to.

        It’s likely a fluke and not common, but just be vigilant so your work on the new resume doesn’t go to waste! If the ATS does try to use the older file, you can usually go back and entirely delete the resume from your profile, and then start over.

        2. Resume please*

          LW5 here again. Thank you! Will be careful to check (and to delete the old version!)

      2. ferrina*

        You’re fine. As long as the facts aren’t changing, it’s fine to play with formatting and highlight different things (like removing the dates and changing the wording). Even if anyone notices (which is unlikely), no one will care.

  6. spiffi*

    On the topic of letter #3 – I worked in the same office building for nearly 20 years. In my FIRST month in the building, I met a woman who worked in a different office in the building – we introduced ourselves and went on our way.

    For the next TWO DECADES – we would run into each other in the hallway or restroom or parking lot – maybe every couple of months? And EVERY time – she would greet me by name – and EVERY TIME, I responded with a smile and wave and generic greeting – because I had NO idea what her name was!

    But I missed the opportunity to say “hey, I’ve forgotten your name” – LONG ago. And I’ve never with someone else from my office when I run into her – so I’ve never been able to say to my coworker – “go introduce yourself and find out her name” LOL

    Thankfully we moved to working from home :D

    1. Jill Swinburne*

      Oh no! Have you tried searching for her role on your company website or LinkedIn?

    2. bamcheeks*

      I did work experience in an office in Germany which employed 5 people— the office manager, the secretary, the receptionist and two accounts clerks. The accounts clerks were introduced to me one first day as Frau Goy and Frau Colditz when I was overwhelmed by all the everything, and I missed the opportunity to find out which was which. I was there for several months, only six people including myself, and I never ever found out which was Frau Goy and which was Frau Colditz and just treated them as a unit. Now I ALWAYS ask first thing, second thing and third thing whilst I’m still new enough to get away with it!

      1. MigraineMonth*

        When I first have a real conversation with someone, I reintroduce myself at the end of a conversation. I am never going to remember “Greta in the blue dress”, but I have at least have a hope in hell of remembering, “Greta, who has three dachshunds and makes papier-mâché lawn ornaments”.

    3. Blue wall*

      IMO you can say that at any time- “ugh, major brain fog today and your name slipped out of my head! Can you remind me what it is?”

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        IME you need to pull out some major acting chops and be willing to make them slightly concerned about you in order to pull this off without insulting someone – but it can definitely be done.

      2. Butterfly Counter*

        This was going to be my suggestion.

        For me, I will stop the interaction and tilt my head with a shocked and confused expression on my face and say, “Oh my goodness. I can’t believe it, but I am blanking on your name right now. Can you remind me real quick?”

        Then you have to pay attention for real when they do!!! (This is an important step.)

        Followed by a palm-to-forehead head smack, apology, and a, “Don’t you hate it when that happens?!”

        I also have started pre-warning people that I am forgetful when I meet them, so they know it’s about me, not them if/when I do need the reminder.

      3. MigraineMonth*

        This actually happens to me! Fortunately, my best friend and roommate of two years forgave me (and told me her name) after she recovered from her 3-minute laughing fit.

        This was in college, so hopefully not a sign of senility.

    4. Tau*

      I feel you so hard. I once forgot the name of my flatmate and only realised at a point where it was way too late to admit I’d forgotten it.

    5. Audrey Puffins*

      I spent months and months running alongside and chatting with the same woman at the same weekly organised running event. I eventually hit her with a straight “hey, you know when you’ve known someone for months and months and you just have no idea what their name is?”, to which she laughed before we introduced ourselves finally.

    6. KaciHall*

      In college, I ride the bus at the same time sa guy from my apartment complex. We started chatting while waiting for the bus one morning, then basically chatted every MWF on whatever bus route that was. Near the end of the semester, he turned to me and said, ” hey I’d like to be friends but if you ever told me you’re name I’ve forgotten it and we probably won’t have the same bus schedule next semester. ” So I admitted that I also didn’t know his name but was embarrassed to ask and we remained friends the rest of the 4 years I was at school.

    7. ferrina*

      I’m laughing because I empathize. I can be bad with names, and it’s the worst! And I’m terrible with faces- if I met you once and spent an hour talking with you, there’s only a 50% chance I will recognize you when we meet a month later. I’m great with remembering the content, but names and face are touch-and-go.

      Nowadays I introduce myself with “I’m terrible with names- it’s nothing personal, it’s just a 50-50 chance that I’ll need to ask you your name several times before my brain holds onto it.” Most people take that with good humor, and some are even relieved that now they won’t look awkward by asking me my name again!

  7. nnn*

    An elaborate scheme for #3, basically because thinking of elaborate schemes is fun.

    Find some kind of task that involves checking everyone’s name off a list. (Circulating a congratulatory card for someone’s retirement? Taking inventory of what kind of equipment is in everyone’s office?)

    But your list is in alphabetical order by last name! And what with having been introduced to everyone by first name, and addressing them by first name in conversation, and the email system always autocompleting when you start typing their first name, you just don’t remember everyone’s last name (but didn’t even realize that until right this minute)

    So you have to keep asking people “Sorry, what’s your last name?” or “Sorry, how do you spell your last name?” As though of COURSE you remember their name, it’s just you’ve never actually had to write out their last name so you didn’t retain things like Leslie’s surname is spelled “Knope” with a silent K, and Ronald’s surname is spelled “McDonald” rather than “MacDonald”.

    1. Heidi*

      There are potentially a lot of ways to tackle this. If there is a company-wide email list, that can get you names to search for. Look up who you can on Google Images and LinkedIn. As you cross people off the list, it becomes like a memory matching game when you whittle it down to the end. You could ask someone where Jane’s desk is and then go there and see who’s there. You could also circulate a birthday card and watch people sign it. Or you can look at a potluck signup list and match up the names to what they bring (as long as everyone doesn’t bring Hawaiian rolls).

    2. Frosty*

      This was going to be similar to my suggestion – ask people “how do you spell your last name again”? Or “what is your email address – I’m totally blanking”. Imply you know their first name but gosh you’re just so bad at spelling, last names and email

      1. JustMe*

        I tried the “How do you spell your last name?” strategy once with a colleague I had only ever spoken to over the phone.
        After the slightest pause, she responded dryly ” F..O..X”

    3. Always Tired*

      I was a +1 to a friend’s work holiday party with the specific goal of helping him learn the names of half his team members, because he was hired in August and missed the chance to admit he hadn’t remembered their names. So as we made the rounds, every time he gave me the sign, I did the “Hello! I’m Tired, Adam’s +1, so lovely to meet you. Brian? Oh, Adam mentions you all the time.”

      He still works there, and knows everyone’s names.

  8. Nah*

    Honestly, while I can kind of understand the “you’ll always be my little girl, I just want what’s best for you”, if I was well into my *forties* and my mother was nosing into my job getting cut and not so subtly blaming me for causing my termination, I would be decreasing contact with her considerably, and would become quite sour on our relationship.

    Heck, even just the therapy aspect might cause her to withdraw considerably. While suggesting therapy ONCE can be helpful if you notice someone in a downswing, repeating it is likely to read as nagging, as if you know her emotions better than she does, that you don’t respect medical privacy (how do you know for sure she hasn’t tried it? it can be difficult to find therapists even accepting new patients, and even harder to find one you click with. I can tell you from experience that a badly matched therapist can be even worse than no therapist at all. For others, it feels like a waste of money, especially after losing two jobs in quick succession). Please don’t bring it up again with her, because I wouldn’t be surprised if she becomes more withdrawn and snappish with you.

    She’s your child, but please take to heart that your child is an adult reaching middle age, and an adult that should be trusted to make decisions she decides are correct for her.

    1. Silver Robin*

      That may make sense for you, but it deeply depends on the relationship the mother and daughter have here. Mentioning therapy once, *last year*, and then mentioning it again because you can see that the issue of intense stress persists (regardless of the firings) is not nagging. Assuming a strong and positive relationship, what if the below is how it went?

      For example, the first time may have gone like: “Hey, I noticed you have been really stressed the past couple of years. I can see it hurting you and I think it is spilling over to others, [specific example]. Do you think it might be worth trying out therapy? It is meant to help with stuff like this, when life gets to be overwhelming. [if relevant] I know it was helpful for me when dealing with…”

      The second time could be: “Hey, this year has been extra rough on you. I know you were not up for therapy last we spoke about it, but I wanted to bring it up again because I really do think it can help. Totally your choice, of course, I just think it is worth a try.”

      Now, if they do not have a good relationship, all of that becomes a minefield because Daughter will not trust that Mother actually has her best interests at heart or is being judgy or whatever. In which case, one and done is the better option and Mother should focus on just being generally supportive (taking the kids for a weekend here and there, or whatever kind of support is available). But to assume that bringing it up again is automatically going to read badly, is an *assumption* and it could go very differently.

      Hopefully, OP has a good sense of what the relationship actually looks like and what the best option is.

      1. Ellie*

        I have recommended and received all sorts of career, therapy, financial and health advice from my mother – we have the kind of relationship where we can talk about anything. But if OP is hesitating to raise it, then there’s probably a reason behind that.

        I think maybe she’s just looking for a bit of reassurance? Being let go from two jobs in one year could absolutely be a coincidence, or a reflection of the market, or the industry, so I really don’t think you can read much into that. The stuff at home is worrying, but you do have to know your audience. Some people just don’t do therapy, or counselling, whereas others love it. You have to walk the line between being kind, being supportive, offering useful advice, and advice that you think has a shot at being acted on.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          I think your last paragraph is on the money. Whenever I’ve been on the sidelines and I’ve had to trust in someone’s adult decisions and resist the urge to say something/intervene then a good alternative is finding ways to reassure yourself.

        2. Silver Robin*

          I agree that she is probably just looking for reassurance; Lord knows I have been in that position with my loved ones (and I remember how my parents handled being in that position with adult me before they learned how to approach it better!). It can be really really hard to refrain from intervening when you see them struggling.

          Again, I assume OP knows the context better than we do, and whether a second (probably final) try would be worth it or not; either way, there are fortunately lots of options for supporting the daughter and hopefully OP can act on those too!

    2. Roeslein*

      This would be the case for me as well (except it wouldn’t happen, because my mother would never consider therapy, and would instead just blame me outright for being let go), but that is only because my mother has a long history of being closed-minded and judgemental. I think it says more about our relationship with our respective mothers than anything else. Plenty of people, including some commenters, have healthy relationships with their parents where they can openly, non-judgmentally and respectfully discuss genuine concerns without jumping straight to “decreasing contact considerably”! The OP sounds like a good parent who is genuinely trying to help without being overbearing. OP your daughter is lucky to have you!

    3. DJ Abbott*

      Cosigning that it is difficult to find the right therapist, and the wrong one can make everything worse. It took me three tries, and the second one was a disaster who would have torn me to shreds if I had let her. Really, someone as clueless as she was should not be allowed to practice.
      If your daughter does decide to go to therapy, it might take several tries to find one she’s comfortable with who can actually help her.

    4. Cat Tree*

      I think it’s really easy for parents of adults to trick themselves into thinking they’re being loving and caring, when actually they’re infantalizing their adult child because they think the child is incapable of handling their own life even with evidence to the contrary. Being caring toward a toddler looks a lot different than being caring toward a middle-aged adult.

      Giving unsolicited advice comes off as criticism because frankly, it is. Especially in this case, it boils down to: “Your life is going is wrong, and here’s one more piece of evidence that you’re generally living your life wrong. ” The daughter knows she lost two jobs in a year, and knows a lot more about the situation than anyone else.

      There are some relationships between parents and adult children where giving this kind of advice could be genuine and useful, but if that were the case the daughter would approach her parent for help.

      1. Tuckerman*

        Agree. Especially because of the part about suggesting therapy because her stress is impacting her husband and kids. There are ways to guide to therapy that are more supportive.

        Like talking about how challenging it was for LW to balance work and parenting years ago, and perhaps her own experience benefitting from therapy (if applicable), acknowledging the stresses of parenting at this point in time, like soaring housing costs, etc.

      2. Seashell*

        My mother is the queen of unsolicited advice. I try to keep information on a need-to-know basis with her, because otherwise I get unsolicited advice or the information gets thrown in my face later.

        1. Rex Libris*

          Same. I’ve been in a white collar management position for years, and my mother is still a font of unsolicited career advice, usually drawn from her experience in factory work in the 1970s…

          1. Observer*

            Whatever else is going on here this is not it.

            For one thing, at least some of what the LW is seeing is being seen by others. For another, the LW thought to check her assumptions before saying anything about the job losses to her daughter.

            Also, if you look for “Worried Mom” you will see that she comments on some of the practical help she’s providing. So, clearly a different situation.

      3. Rex Libris*

        This. At the end of the day, if the daughter isn’t asking for the advice, she probably doesn’t want the advice. When you’re in your 40s with a family of your own, you get to make that call without having to explain it.

      4. Dust Bunny*

        Yeah, my mom does this. She says–and I believe that she believes–she’s just showing concern, but she also has a long history of thinking she’s the only one in the room with any sense and everyone else is doing it wrong. (In this instance specifically she hasn’t had an outside job in literally decades and would have no idea what she was talking about in a professional setting.)

      5. A Simple Narwhal*

        “I think it’s really easy for parents of adults to trick themselves into thinking they’re being loving and caring, when actually they’re infantalizing their adult child because they think the child is incapable of handling their own life even with evidence to the contrary.”

        This is so true. I love my parents and they are loving and caring, but I am convinced they still see me as an unreliable teenager/struggling young adult at times, when I’m in my mid-thirties with an established career and a family of my own. I have also long learned to not go to my parents for work advice – my mom works in the medical field and (up until recently) had zero in-office experience and therefore had no standing to give advice for office jobs, and my dad has a career where his high skill means he can essentially do whatever he wants (and he may actually be a difficult/bad employee) so his advice wasn’t really good for someone starting their career in a different field.

        I still love them but you are absolutely right that any advice from them absolutely was criticism, even if it was given with the best of intentions. It still boils down to: “I think you’re doing it wrong”.

        1. AngryOctopus*

          And to be blunt, mom isn’t daughter’s family anymore–sure they have a relationship, they’re family related, they see each other for holidays, but the daughter is married and has kids. What she is doing/needs to do is/should be being worked out by her and her husband. Mom is mostly peripheral family–this isn’t an insult, or to dismiss what she’s doing to help them, but it’s just to say that mom isn’t a part of the family anymore who can or should be sitting down and helping them make big decisions. That’s just not the role anymore.

          Also, FWIW, two jobs in a year where at least one cited financial reasons is not a big deal in the ‘my child can’t keep a job!’ pantheon. As for being stressed–totally possible she saw the first job kinda tanking and was worried. Then it came to pass. Then she took another job and suddenly it was like “ugh our budget is off. You’re fired”. Now she’s wondering how she managed to pick a second job with issues. It’s hard to be in a rough patch of luck with jobs.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            Just going to push back on “not family anymore”. There are a lot of family configurations other than the US white suburban nuclear family. It’s what I grew up with, but it’s actually pretty rare historically/geographically/culturally for grandparents *not* to be considered part of the family unit.

            LW (commenting as Worried Mom*) mentions that she takes care of the children 3 nights a week and also has the oldest to her house one day a week, so this is a much closer relationship than “relations who see each other for holidays”.

    5. Frosty*

      To add, if you have a family member that you want to suggest “going to therapy”, odds are good that you also need to be in therapy (if you aren’t already).

      Studies show that children that are identified as “needing therapy” actually do much better when their parents get the therapy vs. the child themselves. This letter is discussing an adult child but I’m willing to bet that an adult so concerned with the minutiae of their adult child’s life needs to do some self-work.

      1. Worried Mom*

        Please don’t assume that I have nothing else to do but insert myself into my daughter’s personal business.
        Over ONE year ago, I mentioned that the effect of her stress was hurting her family (her aggressive verbal interactions were upsetting her family). I felt that it was acceptable to say something to her, when I could see the effects on the small children. I had this talk with her ONE time.
        Does that really sound like someone who is “butting in”?

        1. Boof*

          Oof, ok, that’s a bit different if she’s snapping at you or you are personally witnessing her lashing out at her family. I realize maybe you were trying to make it about work for a work advice blog? But yea it’s really ok to say “hey, take it down a notch” in the moment and/or “I’m bothered by how you’re talking to the kids [example], what’s going on?” – and maybe offer suggestions on how to get counseling if that makes sense etc.
          Not proud of it but yea, sometimes me and my hubsband can get stressed and grouchy, and like, therapy is impossible to find (we’ve finally found one / just establishing, self pay, for our son to help handle ADHD/school issues that jeapordized his ongoing attendance; it was a high priority and it was still really hard! For ourselves, when I was super stressed I had an EAP appointment or two but… anything ongoing seems nigh impossible and not worth it for low level problems). Basically my husband and I just rely on calling each other out periodically (ideally, gently) – so I think if you’re personally witnessing it you can too, and leave it up to your daughter if therapy is the answer or not.

    6. Hyaline*

      I think in addition to what others have said, a major factor is the focus of concern. Is it on outcomes—job loss, “impact on husband and children” (I’m not quite sure what that means here but), or other “problems” like weight loss or gain, messy house, lack of former ambition—or is it truly on your daughter’s wellbeing? It’s alienating and may produce feelings of shame if as a parent you’re saying “you’re losing jobs, you need therapy” in a way that “you’ve seemed down and I’m worried about you” might not. Don’t, imo, focus on the outcomes you perceive as negative—focus on your kid and providing support. If possible, let her lead—don’t prescribe therapy, let her suggest what she feels would help her and then try to do so if it’s reasonable and you can (maybe it’s help with childcare so she can take a class or maybe it’s that the best Christmas gift ever for her would be a few housecleaning sessions or something!).

      1. Sparkle Llama*

        I have a somewhat fraught but improving relationship with my mother and the last bit of this is golden. If my mom told me to go to therapy I would entirely read that as her saying yet again that I am doing something wrong not as her trying to help. But actual help that is based on my actual needs would be great. In a particularly difficult time my parents came over and helped with a variety of household chores and projects around the house for a day when I was lacking the spoons to deal with it. It was so great! And them doing so without judgement was honestly a key to rebuilding our relationship that had been quite strained. But I think it is very hard for a lot of parents to actually help without judgement and I know it was super hard for my parents to do that, but I think that my mother’s own work in therapy helped her get to a point to be able to do that. So I think if the LW really wants to help they should consider what sort of help is appropriate given the relationship and won’t be seen as judgement.

      2. softcastle*

        100%–this is absolutely correct. My mom is a “worrier” and chronically sees me as a helpless teenager, despite being in my 30s, having made a great career for myself, and managing my personal life independently for years without issue or needing her intervention.

        I was laid off in March this year, and luckily found a great new job by June. During those 4 months alone, my mother was in an absolute neurotic panic. As you suggested, it was only partially about my *actual* wellbeing–she was largely concerned on its affects on my reputation (“Nobody will want to hire someone who has been laid off! You can’t tell them the truth!”), my weight (“If you don’t get a job soon, you’ll be depressed eat everything in the house! You’re going to let yourself go!”), my ambition/momentum (“What if you have a mental breakdown and never work again!”). She was so concerned about a routine layoff that she ended up making all “support” about herself, and I ended up having to spend my energy consoling HER that I was okay and this wasn’t going to derail my life forever.

        I’m not suggesting this is in /any/ way what Worried Mom is doing to her daughter. But…I would urge her to really take inventory on her feelings & fears, and herself *why* she is focusing so specifically on her daughter’s work affairs that she is emailing AskAManager for career insight/advice, instead reaching out to her OWN therapist or a parental board/blog for advice on how best to be supportive to her daughter overall. I know mothers want to be “Fixers,” even well after their children have flown the nest, but unless the daughter has directly asked her for assistance or made her emotions her mother’s responsibility, this is a loving but misguided avenue for support.

  9. Jeannie*

    Oh I forgot about the person who was mad her daughter didn’t get hired for a position after she had withdrawn her application. The trip through the comments is so wild.

  10. Peren*

    #3, I have said things like “oh, I know your face and *insert random fact* but names just don’t stick in my brain, it’s so embarrassing. Would you mind telling me again?”

    1. WoodswomanWrites*

      Becoming more forgetful about names and faces as I’ve gotten older, I have a variation of this. I now say overtly when I am first introduced to a colleague that I have a cognitive block for names and faces and I appreciate their patience should I forget both their face and their name. I’m finding this to be very helpful because then they don’t mind reintroducing themselves knowing the context.

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I did something similar with a professor who came to see my display for my (college) senior project. I could not remember his name (and I’d been wracking my brain since I first saw him at the other end of the display hall), so I decided to just own up to it immediately with something like “I’m afraid I’ve completely forgotten your name but I remember your class [X] from last summer and [Y] from that class was really helpful to me when I was working on this project.”

      He was perfectly gracious about reminding me of his name, which I suspect was a combination of (a) me immediately admitting I’d forgotten his name and (b) obviously remembering exactly why I knew him. Of course, this probably works better with people you see only occasionally than people you see on a regular basis.

    3. Beth*

      I struggle terribly with names! I can sometimes get one to stick by stealing the old Welsh tradtion of naming someone (in my head) with a memorable attribute, such as Helen the Green Sweater and Amy the Flowerpots.

  11. Free Meerkats*

    #3, I know it’s too late for your situation, but I head off this problem whenever I’m introduced to someone I know I’m going to be seeing again. I say something like, “I’m moderately face blind (which is true) and I will forget your name. It usually takes me some months of seeing each other regularly for names to stick, it’s nothing personal.”

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      oh that’s such a good idea. I’ll remember that for future introductions
      (but alas too late to mention to the dozens of nameless people who address me by name and I’ve “known” for years)

    2. I take tea*

      I have started doing this as well. I can talk a long time with someone and if I know I’ll see them again, I just say that I might not recognise them next time or remember their name, but I will remember what we talked about, just remind me.

    3. allathian*

      I may be very slightly face blind in the sense that I generally don’t recognize people out of context. I know all of the hairdressers at my salon by their first names, but I doubt I’d recognize any of them if I saw them anywhere else. At most, I’d think that they look familiar.

      I imagine that most customer service employees would prefer not to interact with their customers when they aren’t at work. When I was in high school and worked at the corner store, most of our customers were regulars who shopped there at least once a week, some every day. I was always slightly annoyed by the middle-aged men, and they were invariably middle aged and male, who wanted to talk to me when I saw them in the street. Ugh.

      1. Panicked*

        I’m also very context dependent when it comes to recognizing people. I understand why no one knew Clark Kent was Superman! I used to work in a position where I was in the same judge’s courtroom three days a week. I always saw him on the bench, in his black robe. I came back early from lunch and he walked past me without the robe on. I 100% did not recognize him. It took me several minutes of “why does that guy look familiar?” before it dawned on me that it was literally the judge sitting directly in front of me.

        I’ve had similar things with my doctor, dentist, colleagues, etc… It’s embarrassing!

    4. WoodswomanWrites*

      I posted this above before seeing your post, but this is me. Becoming more forgetful about names and faces as I’ve gotten older, I now say overtly when I am first introduced to a colleague that I have a cognitive block for names and faces and I appreciate their patience should I forget both their face and their name. I’m finding this to be very helpful because then they don’t mind reintroducing themselves knowing the context.

    5. DontRememberMyName*

      I came here to say this too, I will not remember people’s faces and therefore retain their name, but people are fascinated when I say I’m slightly faceblind, and nice people will then remind me of previous conversations and their names so I can connect the two until I know them well enough to recognise them by something other than their face. I love working remotely because everyone’s name is RIGHT THERE.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      100% this. “I have no visual memory and I will not be able to keep your name with your face, but I will still remember that I know you, so apologies in advance.”

    7. Hopefully No One Gets a Haircut*

      I am also moderately faceblind and also do this. If your company ever has meetings with outsiders, I also learned the trick of drawing the table and then writing down names in the correct spots as people introduce themselves – it gives me another set of opportunities to learn as I check my cheat sheet throughout the meeting.

    8. Ink*

      +1, it makes people a lot more willing to help without judgement. If I’m especially worried I throw in a story about a high school friend whose name I had to ask for over a dozen times. He had the same name as my brother. And yet.

  12. Charlie*

    I don’t use scented laundry products myself but my clothes often smell of them anyway because my building has shared laundry and the smells can linger in the machines after other people use them :( Hopefully the secondhand scent is mild enough that it doesn’t irritate people with sensitivities, but it’s frustrating that my clothing ends up smelling through no choice of my own!

    1. Thinking*

      My apartment has a machine in which the previous tenant used a fragranced detergent. I am highly sensitive to fragrance. I do a second rinse and spin with lemon juice or white vinegar and then air dry, which eliminates the scent. Good luck.

    2. I take tea*

      I have this problem too. I hang dry most of the clothes in the apartment, but sheets and towels that I have to hang in the drying room always makes me sneeze. I really don’t get why people want their clothes to smell like that. I can understand perfume better, even if it gives me asthma, it’s at least a more personal thing.

    3. DJ Abbott*

      I also use shared laundry and do a sniff test on the machines before I use them. So far I’ve always been able to find a machine that doesn’t reek of scent. After they have aired out a while they’re OK.
      It’s not unusual for the air in the laundry room to reek while people are using these products, though. I’m lucky it doesn’t make me sick.

    4. Not Totally Subclinical*

      When our washing machine broke, we did a load at the local laundromat and quickly decided that we would make do until the machine was fixed. (Fortunately it was an easy fix involving a new hose and clamp rather than, say, replacing the computer.)

  13. FunkyMunky*

    i would personally draw a line at policing people’s home cleaning products. I’ve told someone to take a hike who was questioning what detergent I use, a while back. I understand allergies are allergies but this person would be on public transit & in shops and apparently people’s scents outside of the office were ok.

    1. Min*

      I’m reading this as you’re fine with asking people not to put strong perfumes on their bodies, but not fine with asking people not to put strong perfumes on their clothing. Am I understanding you correctly?

      If so, can you explain the difference and why one would be acceptable and the other would be out of line? (Honest question, not snark)

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        I assume it’s because perfume is 100% optional while using soap of some kind is necessary for washing clothes. It can still be weirdly hard to find unscented products; the unscented shampoo I use got discontinued, so now I’m on the hunt for another kind and am finding zero options at the drug store.

        1. Freya*

          I’m allergic to lots of fragrances – for example, non-hypoallergenic toilet paper will give me allergic dermatitis. My boss gets the hypoallergenic toilet paper, because she values me and my work.

          Fortunately for me, I can generally tell just by sniffing the product whether longer exposure will cause me problems – there’s a couple of ingredients that my brain has decided smell like burning tyres. Unfortunately, my husband’s bout of Covid early this year left him allergic to his preferred soap, to the point of needing an asthma puffer, and it took us over a month to figure out what was setting him off in bed every night (showering before bed).

          1. Cindy*

            Toilet paper is fragranced? Holy smokes, is there no end to this. I’ve been phasing out fragranced products at home and every time I turn around there’s something else I need to research and replace.

            3. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

              A lot of it is, yes. If you look at a display of toilet paper in the supermarket, there are likely some with labels that say they’re scented, some that don’t say either way, and a few that say “fragrance free.”

              Also, if you haven’t already run into this, what you’re looking for is “fragrance free.” If something is labeled “unscented,” read the label to make sure that it doesn’t contain something like a “masking fragrance.” Those products aren’t going to have a strong odor, but they can cause allergic reactions, or even be migraine triggers for some people.

              1. ThatOtherClare*

                This is excellent advice.

                Some of my friends react more to certain ‘unscented’ products than to the naturally odourous versions of the same thing – because they have sensitivities to synthetic chemicals, rather than to odour molecules in general.

            4. 1LFTW*

              Much of it is, yes. So is a lot of Kleenex — even stuff that’s not supposed to have lotion in it.

        2. Ellie*

          They’re often more expensive too. I use sensitive laundry liquid because I suspected my toddler was having a mild reaction to the regular stuff. I don’t know how I’d feel about wearing that expense for the benefit of someone I work with. It probably depends on how well I know them, to be honest.

          Perfume is an easy one to avoid, and feels like its in the same category as not bringing nuts to work. Simple, costs nothing, and is clearly a want of mine versus a need of someone else.

          1. Nobby Nobbs*

            Homemade laundry detergent is worlds cheaper than either scented or unscented, but also labor-intensive enough if it isn’t already your Thing (hi Mom!) that I’d never dream of demanding it of a coworker. Besides, they’d probably undo all the benefit by adding fabric softener anyway.

        3. Ellis Bell*

          I think people are getting confused between “get something 100 per cent scent free” (which is difficult because lots of things have a natural or incidental smell), and “avoid the products with permanent perfume additives designed to not be rinsed off”. The latter really is unnecessary to clean your clothes and is often an extra laundry additive expense people splurge on because they think it makes things “smell nice for weeks” (which, really is the opposite of clean!)

          1. Hyaline*

            This exactly—there’s been a huge marketing push behind these (unnecessary) “scent beads” and other additives in recent years. I’d bet many problems from others’ laundry “detergent” are actually products like these.

        4. Lellow*

          Fabric softener is the main culprit for strong laundry scents, and it’s actually terrible for clothes! (It works by giving your clothes a chemical coating to “feel soft” and “smell nice” but it degrades the fabric fibres and they’ll break down much faster than if it wasn’t used.) So while marketing has definitely convinced a lot of people that it’s necessary, it really isn’t.

          1. DryerSheetsNeeded*

            Except for people with sensitive skin it really actually can be the difference between tolerating the feel of clothes on your skin and not being able to do so. I absolutely have issues on those rare occasions when I forget to use a dryer sheet. It doesn’t matter if it means my clothes don’t last as long if it means I can actually wear them.

            1. Lellow*

              You’re the first person I’ve ever met to have needs this way around – I’ve previously only encountered people with sensitive skin for whom the added stay-on chemicals cause them extra problems!

              1. Meow*

                I’m another one who finds clothes washed without a fabric softener in the rinse irritating. The haters are gonna tell me I’ll burst.into flames, destroy my washer, am personally responsible for global warming, but at the end of the day I don’t want a rash from the rough, unsoftened fabric

                1. Crepe Myrtle*

                  There’s at least two of us! Things washed or dried without fabric softener feel extremely rough to me and irritate my skin. I need something just to wear them. I use unscented laundry products only, but I need some softener.

                2. goth associate*

                  I had never needed not used fabric softener until I moved into a flat in London without a dryer, between the hard water & the indoor line drying my clothes were like sandpaper without it & it drove me MAD, so I deeply sympathise. (Will say now I’m back in Australia with softer water and a dryer I don’t find I need it, but yeah as someone with pretty bad scent allergies I can definitely see why people use it in some places, I just wish it wasn’t all so SMELLY.)

            2. White Squirrel*

              In the past I was able to find unscented dryer sheets. Not sure if they’re still available but it was a good compromise for my particular situation at the time.

          2. Observer*

            and it’s actually terrible for clothes!

            I have no idea whether this is actually true, but it’s not really relevant. You don’t get to make those decisions for other people.

            So while marketing has definitely convinced a lot of people that it’s necessary, it really isn’t.

            Maybe for you, it’s not a thing, and maybe it’s not “necessary”. But a lot of people fo actually enjoy the way it feels, and it’s not your place to tell someone that they are “wrong” for liking that softer feel.

            If there is an issue with scents, that needs to be addressed. But please don’t get into deciding what kind of laundry products people should use and what the “should” like.

            1. Lellow*

              Uh, this is weirdly aggressive. I didn’t tell anyone they’re not allowed to use fabric softener. I stated that it’s terrible for clothes, which is a verifiable fact, and that it’s a preference, as opposed to a necessity. Which you say yourself! Chill out.

        5. Learn ALL the things?*

          It is fiendishly difficult to find unscented products. I’m lucky that I found something that has a scent I don’t hate while I’m applying it in the shower and dissipates quickly so my own hair doesn’t give me an asthma attack.

          1. Learn ALL the things?*

            To clarify: I meant to say unscented hair products. I’ve managed just fine with lotion, soap, laundry detergent and the like. But hair products always smell of something.

            1. Caramel & Cheddar*

              I ended up getting something cucumber scented because that seemed about as neutral as one could get without actually being fragrance free.

            2. Cindy*

              I get unscented shampoo/conditioner/gel from the online company Prose. It’s pricier than drugstore stuff but seems to work fine.

            3. BikeWalkBarb*

              For shampoo I buy a bar of soap at my farmers’ market from a local soapmaker that’s almost scentfree. It’s almond oatmeal goatmilk, from Riverdance Soapworks based in Shelton, WA. Their shampoo bar smells like mint so if that’s a smell you can tolerate you could use that. They use essential oils for their scents.

              The goatmilk bar seems scentfree to me. It’s their “regular” soap but all their soaps are super gentle. I don’t have any sensitivities so YMMV. I’m buying it so I support a local business, I don’t take home more plastic, and my hair doesn’t have a strong scent if I go into our office which has a no-fragrance policy.

              You may have a local soapmaker you can talk with to find a similar product or try Riverdance; they have a website you can order from. Ingredients in the one I get: Saponified Oils of Coconut, Olive, RSPO Certified Sustainably Grown Palm, Palm Shortening, Castor, Shea Butter, and Organic Sunflower. Goat Milk, Oats, Essential Oil of Bitter Almond, Stearic Acid, Vegetable Glycerin, Water.

              1. Observer*

                They use essential oils for their scents.

                That is not “scent free” by any reality based definition. And it just underscores how difficult this can be.

              2. Flor*

                I’d advise caution with using soap for hair, particularly if you have long hair and/or hard water. If it’s working fine for you, no problem! But I absolutely destroyed my ends using soap-based shampoo bars, because the alkalinity of the soap lifts the cuticle (some people recommend an acid rinse afterwards, but that doesn’t prevent the damage).

        6. I'm just here for the cats!!*

          Also unscented and fragrance free are 2 different things. I have yet to find an unscented soap that does not make me gag because it smells bad. Also there are some natural scents that cause me to have breathing problems. It is not always about synthetic versus natural scents or “chemicals”.

          1. AngryOctopus*

            This!! Fragrance free doesn’t add any perfume or additives to make a scent. But things may still be scented, because most things inherently have a scent! It might be nice, it might not be. Neutrogena makes a fragrance free SPF face lotion that smells like tires to me. This is because ingredients have inherent scent. Unscented means that it doesn’t smell like perfume or anything. This is likely achieved by adding a masking agent which masks the inherent scent of the other ingredients (assuming they’re detectable at levels used in the product) to make it smell more neutral (obviously YMMV in each scenario, as to Here for the Cats with the soaps and me with the Neutrogena lotion).

        7. MCMonkeyBean*

          “Perfumes” in this context does not mean a bottle of perfume that you spray on just for fun, but also includes things like body wash and shampoo.

        8. Orv*

          My experience is that unscented products aren’t. The scent is always there to cover up some other, usually more chemical, smell.

      2. The nose knows*

        Laundry products are the worst! When I have to use a laundromat, I cautiously sniff every dryer for the least scented one, then wipe it down before using it. I have to hold my breath on walks when I’m passing someone’s dryer vent in use. When someone is sharing space with me (in my car, extensive time working on my house), I sometimes offer my own products to use and try to work out some accommodation that both protects me and doesn’t cause them too much hardship. Sometimes I have to wait awhile after getting my car serviced if the attendant was wearing too much scented clothing while sitting in it.

      3. Catherine*

        I’m fine with removing a step of my routine at my employer’s request. Perfume is a fun little optional thing that brightens my day but I can skip it for someone else’s comfort.

        If my employer wants me to add a step or change the existing way I do my personal beauty routine or chores at home, and the product they specify increases my expenses, I would expect to be made whole for that because it’s an imposition in a way that removing a product/step is not.

    2. JayC*

      The kind of passing incidental exposure one gets on transit or in shops may be unpleasant, and trigger a reaction in sensitive people, but being stuck next to it for eight hours is a whole nother level of hell.

      1. lemon*

        Exactly this. When I’m out in public and encounter someone who is wearing a strong scent, I can choose to go shop in another store or move to a different train car. And even when I can’t, it’s likely I’m only exposed to that person for a few minutes. However, at work, you’re required to be in the same physical location with the same people for at least 8 hours and you usually can’t just to choose to leave.

    3. Aardvark*

      Yes, outside work can be ok in a way that inside work is not.

      When you are outside work you have the choice to move away. On the bus you can move to a different seat, or even wait for the next one. In the shops you can skip a few aisles and come back around later.

      At work, if I am assigned a desk that is next to someone using scents that give me a migraine, my options are much more limited.

    4. Sister George Michael*

      I sometimes have to switch to a different train car if someone is wearing a lot of scent, and I’ve also moved to a different part of a store for the same reason. I don’t have a diagnosed allergy but if I’m by someone with strong scent for a while I get a sore throat and a headache. The same thing if I’m near certain cut flowers.

    5. tommy*

      well… there is nothing they can do about scents on public transit and in shops. if there’s a thing in the world that makes you ill, and it could possibly be changed in one context but not all contexts, you don’t go, “oh well, it can’t be 100% fixed, may as well get as sick as possible from not getting it changed anywhere.” you try to change what’s possible to change.

      and people are in shops and on public transit for fewer hours. sometimes things that make us sick are cumulative — can be tolerated for a short while but not eight hours. or a shorter exposure adds up to less illness overall.

      1. Lady Danbury*

        My allergist advised me to try to keep my overall allergen levels low. That doesn’t mean completely avoiding everything that I might be sensitive/allergic to (especially since allergies can exist on a scale from inconvenience to death), but to be mindful of the exposure that I can control, since there will be exposures that I can’t avoid (or allergies that I may not even be aware of).

        There can be a huge difference between strongly scented laundry products halfway across a subway car for 30 minutes versus 8 hours in a shared office or even 2 hours in a meeting room.

    6. Ellis Bell*

      It’s not really as fine “outside the office” as you’re assuming. Did you read what happened to the OP? Whenever we encounter a scent like this in the wild “outside of the office” we have to back away swiftly so my partner doesn’t get affected. He avoids public transport but you can usually tell if there’s a scent around when you’re getting on, especially if you stay towards the back. The one time he got really hurt we were jammed onto an escalator, with them right behind us, so we couldn’t back away or get off. Even though it’s only a few minutes before you can get away, by the time we could he was in agony and he was ill for days.

    7. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      Few people spend eight hours a day on public transit, sitting five feet away from someone reeking of perfume the entire time.

      I’ve been on a subway car with someone overwhelmingly scented. (No idea if it was her body, her hair, or her clothes and my allergies didn’t care.) I just moved to another car at the next stop. Not an option if you have adjacent cubicles at work.

  14. ChrisZ*

    #4: If it would be possible for you both to be off, i.e. you think if you explained, you could get the time off, maybe your friend could book the time and then, without letting on that you know he already booked off, ask for the same time. When your boss tells you your friend already has that time, explain your best friend’s boyfriend finally proposed and she’s putting her wedding together ASAP / everyone has finally found a date that works for your family reunion / your cousin has booked her boob job after winning big at bingo and needs you for aftercare… no need to ever tell anybody you were even within 1,000 miles of each other ;)

    1. Aardvark*

      This puts them at risk of being caught in the lie though. A couple of pics online, a friend who knows some one, who knows someone at the work place and they will never be trusted again.

      2. Ellie*

        Absolutely, I think they would get caught, and what if there’s a conflict of interest, now or in the future? If they’re peers then it’s probably OK, but some people might feel betrayed if you hid the fact that you’re close friends. What if someone complained about one to the other? What if someone asked one if the other was ready for promotion, or about their work ethic, or if they got in late one day? You’re better off just discretely letting people know that you’re close friends.

    2. I should really pick a name*

      That sounds like way more drama then just saying “yes, we’re traveling together”.

      And if it comes out that they lied about traveling with their friend, the gossip is just going to be worse.

    3. Hush42*

      I wouldn’t outright lie to my manager about why you both need time off at the same time. However, is the planned trip with just OP and her friend/coworker or are other friends going on the trip? If other are going OP could give her boss a version of the truth that isn’t the *whole* truth. i.e. Friend and I knew each other before we worked here (obviously) as we are part of the same friend group. Now that same friend group is looking to plan a trip together that would require both of us to take the same time off as we would both like to go. It does let your manager know that you are friends without giving away how close friends that you are. If it’s just the two of you then I am afraid you’re just going to have to tell your manager.

      For what it’s worth, how much of an issue it will be depends entirely on your companies culture. I hired an excellent employee who then recommended his 2 best friends for other positions on adjacent teams (they all report to me but are not on the same team). However, I knew what their relationship was like before I hired them. It hasn’t caused any issues for the team. But again, whether or not it would is very culture dependent.

    4. Observer*

      When your boss tells you your friend already has that time, explain your best friend’s boyfriend finally proposed and she’s putting her wedding together ASAP / everyone has finally found a date that works for your family reunion / your cousin has booked her boob job after winning big at bingo and needs you for aftercare

      Lying to get the time off you want is a potentially career limiting move – even more so than actually taking that vacation together.

      There are no reasons in a reasonable workplace to make up stories that you need to keep straight at work.

  15. phira*

    #3: I’m out of the workforce right now, but as a college instructor, I’ve had to learn a lot of names very quickly, sometimes up to 130.

    If there’s any way you can manage to get a roster/list of names, that might be really helpful. You can start with who you already know and kind of build from there. So if you have 50 people in your company and you can successfully identify 10 of them, that’s great–that’s 10 people you don’t need to worry about anymore. For the rest of them, there’s a variety of techniques that might work.

    When I was learning names at the beginning of the semester, I would hand assignments back and call out names as I walked around, like, “Stormageddon?” and then see which student looked up at me or approached me. So if you ever have to find your colleague “Brumhilde,” you can go into the general vicinity of where they might be and call out their name. It’s easy to pass it off as just trying to get their attention, and not like you’re Joey from Friends standing in the middle of Central Perk asking, “Mike?”

    If you can access photos of anyone, like through the company website or LinkedIn or what-have-you, you can quiz yourself by looking at the photos and guessing their names. (I used to make flashcards at one of my teaching jobs–we got a digital roster in advance and it had all the students’ photos.)

    If there’s someone you need to interact with, but you wouldn’t be able to pick them out of a line-up, you can try asking them to meet up with you in person to discuss a work thing. For example, emailing them, “Hi, Morbius! I think it might be easier for me to chat in person about the TPS reports. I’m stuck at my desk waiting for an email from Bill Lumbergh, so is there a time you can drop by? Thanks!”

    And finally, sometimes being honest is the only way to handle it. “Hey, I am so embarrassed to admit this, but you introduced yourself to me six months ago and I can’t remember your name. I’m so sorry.” Rip that bandaid off!

    1. Cazaril*

      Another use for LinkedIn—look up your company and it will link to people who work there. Then you have a handy roster of names and photos, with the bonus of official titles.

    2. BewareTheElevator*

      As long as you don’t run into cyber rates or – worse- cybermen.

      I love that episode so hard.

    3. Spacewoman Spiff*

      I was also about to reference college teaching as the best example of how to learn names! If #3 can get a staff list where they can add their own notes to help identify people, I think it’d be a huge help. I’m so bad at names that my first job, I was very much like #3…I couldn’t remember anyone’s name and was too embarrassed to own up to it, so by the time I left the job I STILL didn’t know some of my co-worker’s names. I think your last point is key, just being willing to embarrass yourself and admit you’ve forgotten a name is the best way to get it to stick. When I was teaching a few years back, I was able to learn everyone’s names by the second week mainly, I think, because I told the students early on that I was going to mix up names and so would be testing myself by trying to match their names/faces when I did roll…there were a few students I consistently mixed up at the start, but because I told them I was trying to learn, they all found it funny and it only took me a few classes to get it right.

  16. Allonge*

    LW3 – 50-off people is a large enough org to suggest creating a ‘website* with handy mugshots’.

    *I would do an internal page (do you have an intranet? Shared drives?) as it’s a lower bar to clear (lots of people have good reasons not to want their photos online).

    1. Harper the Other One*

      This is a great idea because it would also be super helpful for any new staff members. One day of a photographer and a SharePoint site would create a terrific resource.

    2. Spencer Hastings*

      Yes, I work for a company about the same size as the LW’s, and we have one of these on our private intranet. It’s a powerpoint file that’s saved on there and updated every so often for new hires, people leaving, and people getting promoted or switching departments. It was created sometime in 2022, I think.

      Speaking of which, if the LW has been there for 4 years, it sounds like they were hired during the height of COVID quarantines/restrictions. So it’s even more understandable that they don’t have a handle on people’s names, if they weren’t properly introduced in person and then everyone returned to office and other people knew who LW was but not vice versa. If I were inclined to feel ashamed to admit that I didn’t know people’s names, that would make me a lot less ashamed.

  17. anon24*

    OP3 I’m horrific with names and I’m also face blind to the point that when I was still married I walked past my then-husband 4 times in a store because I forgot what he was wearing and couldn’t find him (he had to finally grab me and he was dying laughing).

    But I have this weird quirk that if I know what car someone drives I’m set. It’s the associated with something that cements it in my brain. Maybe you can do the same thing? I’m so grateful to the co-worker in a job I had years ago when I explained that I could not remember who people were but told him my quirk and he thought it was hilarious and then quietly pointed out everyone we worked with, told me their name, and what car they drove. I never forgot a name/face at that job after that!

    1. Ellis Bell*

      This is called building on prior knowledge. Your brain likes to link new knowledge with old, like adding new beads to old strings. This wouldn’t work for me, because I’m terrible at identifying cars, but a lot of people do something similar. A common thing is to learn something about the person at the same time as learning their name, like Gilda the gospel singer or Frank the fisherman. For extra stickability, I use alliteration. If their name coincides with their department, that’s easy; Rhea the RE teacher, or Tessa teaches with test tubes. When learning student names, a big help is that we have to make seating plans. This is probably applicable to OP’s office unless they all hotdesk; they can add names to the seating plan as they learn them and the geography of the building will aid them akin to a memory palace. Sometimes I keep the seating plan to hand, and sometimes I make the first initial of a block of names into words and phrases. I’m terrible with names too! But in teaching you learn how to do it.

    2. Ed 'Massive Aggression' Teach*

      Purely out of curiosity, what would you do for someone who doesn’t drive? Would telling you my bus operator work?

      1. 2e asteroid*

        “Captain of the Queen Anne’s Revenge” would probably work!

        (More seriously, my guess is “Ed who doesn’t drive” is likely to be good enough. Depending on your job demographics, “doesn’t drive” may actually be a smaller category than, e.g., “drives an F-150”.)

      2. anon24*

        Telling me you ride the bus works! That job was actually located somewhere with no public transportation and one of the employees didn’t drive. But knowing “oh, that’s Jane, she takes a taxi everyday” was enough to make the association in my head. I don’t know why it’s cars for me, brains are weird.

    3. Sled dog mama*

      I’m not face-blind but I have several friends who are very severely face-blind. I didn’t realize that I have picked up alternative ways to identify people until very recently. I was at a horse show recently and a friend told me that she had unhitched her trailer (a very normal thing to do for an overnight stay) and someone had parked in front of her trailer. I said oh yeah that’s me I parked there because I knew I’d be leaving before you. I’ve only known her about 2 years and there’s no reason I should be able to identify her trailer but I was 100% sure it was her. Apparently in the weird of horse people my ability to identify horse trailers is a little out there.

  18. bripops*

    LW3: not all of these will work on the scale you’re looking at but my go-to ways of getting someone’s name when I should already know it are:
    1) strike up a conversation about name spelling, like “omg you would not believe how a barista spelled my name on a coffee cup this morning, has that ever happened to you?”
    2) mention an interesting fact about your own name (“I just found out the root word for my name means honeybee”) and ask if they know anything about theirs
    3) if the person has kids, ask how they chose the kid’s names, mention how your parents chose *your* name, and ask if their own parents had specific reasons for picking their name (if they don’t have kids you can start the conversation with “my sister/cousin/neighbor is picking baby names and we all got talking over the weekend about…” but this is a good one for if they do have kids whose names you have also forgotten)

    you can also use these with groups once you have one name, like if you’re sitting around at lunch start with “Jason and I were talking about name misspellings and it turns out we’ve both had our names spelled really weird, I’m curious as to how often that happens to other people, what’s the weirdest your name has ever been spelled compared to how it’s actually spelled”

    I wouldn’t say it’s a 100% success rate but it’s pretty effective and also a nice way to get to know your coworkers!

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      #3 I’m severely faceblind, worsened in my later years by a registered visual disability.

      I was OK when working, because we had an online floorplan & phone directory with pictures.
      However, there are maybe 20 people at my gym that I”ve known for 10-20 years and address me by name, but I can’t do the same.

      I feel I’ve broken a social etiquette rule: when I’ve been sweating & naked with people for years I really should know their names :)

    2. BikeWalkBarb*

      We did something like this in a nonprofit I used to work for. We had a standing meeting that always had an opening question to create space for connection before content. Best question ever was when they asked each of us to tell a story about our name. Could be any part of the name, could be anything from cultural tradition to being named for two grandmas and they smooshed the names together to create yours to going by your middle name because you dislike your first name.

    3. Beany*

      You’d better hope someone doesn’t give you a cutesy-but-inconclusive answer (like notMulva in Seinfeld).

  19. Jo-Maroon*

    I appreciate that LW1 so obviously cares about her daughter, but it comes across as kind of dismissive to disbelieve her when she brought up budget cuts. At the end of the day, she personally experienced this job while you only heard about it tangentially, so it seems kind of presumptuous to assume you know some secret reason for the job loss that your daughter lacks. Also, while I try to treat everyone with basic courtesy, I’m certainly more transparent about my stress around my mom than I am in a workplace! I’d guess that your daughter’s stressed behaviors are much more overt around you than around her boss!

    1. Ellis Bell*

      Some people, heck there are entire generations of people, who’ve never experienced job insecurity or know what it’s like to work in an industry were jobs are being cut frequently. I agree with you that there’s no reason to disbelieve the daughter; people who would make up job cuts the second time would’ve come up with something better the first time than “there was no reason”. Also, the feelings behind generally stressed behaviour are something that can be directly related to the sinking ship you’re working on; it can happen years before the axe actually falls at work. You may not know explicitly that job cuts are coming, but sometimes the pain precedes the cuts.

      1. Coffee Protein Drink*

        My father worked for one company (in various positions) his entire adult career. That doesn’t happen much these days. Times are different and usually the only way to get a raise more than cost of living is to move on.

      2. AngryOctopus*

        To your last point, so true! At an old job we knew that some layoffs had to be coming, but we didn’t realize they were going to be so big (to be 100% fair I don’t think management did either, because it had to do with our main funder being bought by someone else, and waiting for the someone else to decide what they wanted to do with all the partnerships that our funder ran). But people were definitely stressed the 6 weeks or so when we realized layoffs were coming and the actual announcement. If you’re working for a place with money stress, that’s just going to carry on longer.

    2. Cat Tree*

      I agree. I’m trying not to derail too much, but the motive of caring doesn’t magically make it OK. My own mother has always been extremely critical and she absolutely 100% believes that she’s doing it out of love because OF COURSE she’s right and OF COURSE I don’t know any better and OF COURSE my life will be so much better if I just do everything she says, which OF COURSE I could never figure out on my own.

      If she were around today, she would still insist that she’s just trying to help and she would believe it. But it was still extremely insulting to me to be on the receiving end. It would be much more helpful and loving to just accept that I’m an adult and generally manage my own life.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        “the motive of caring doesn’t magically make it OK”

        This is so succinct! I’m stealing it for future use

    3. Observer*

      but it comes across as kind of dismissive to disbelieve her when she brought up budget cuts.

      I’m sure that that’s what the LW’s daughter was told.

      But that does not mean that that’s the actual reason. And it’s also possible that the budget cts were real, but the daughter was the one let rather than someone else, because of issues not having to do with budget. I’ve seen that multiple times. Although it is of course possible that this is exactly what the boss said it was. The LW really cannot know either way.

      But I do agree that it’s possible that the daughter’s behavior at work might be *very* different than at home.

  20. Overthinking it*

    For #3: Ooh! Make a secrect project out of this. A challenge! Find an office phone list – or better still an org chart. Every day, Google a few names or seek them out on social media. Eventually, you will find photos of most. Also, surreptitiously make a diagram of all the offices and work stations. As you find out who works where, lable them (keep this hidden). And you can ask someone: “Hey, where is Susan Jones’ workstation again?” (Instead of asking: “So, which one of these women is Susan Jones?”) Then go look and see who is working there. Start with the ones working closest to your space. (I realize this won’t work if you are all remote. But, one of the big drawbacks of bring of being remote is that you don’t really bond with your co-worker, so in that case you have a good excuse for getting there names confused.)

  21. judyjudyjudy*

    LW1, perhaps your daughter is under a lot of stress because her industry broadly is going through a reduction in force, leading to two layoffs? I’d be pretty stressed if I felt there was an ax hanging constantly hanging over me, and I was just waiting for it to fall. This is, of course, total speculation, but it’s worth thinking about if her stress comes from work.

    I’m in alignment with Allison here — butt out. I hope you can find some peace, and best wishes to both of you!

    1. WS*

      +1, and also if she was the most recent hire to the second job, she was probably first to be laid off.

    2. londonedit*

      If the second incidence was because of ‘budget cuts’ then surely the daughter wasn’t fired but rather made redundant (or ‘laid off’, as I think you’d say in the US). I know it must be worrying for the OP, but being made redundant isn’t the daughter’s fault, it’s just unfortunate. It sounds like she’s just been unlucky, or maybe the victim of an industry that’s going through some instability.

  22. But not the Hippopotamus*

    #3 Chiming in as another somewhat face blind person who is awful with names. I know this doesn’t help much now, but when I start a new job I do my darnedest to walk around and memorize who is in what office (office doors have names!) or just reintroduce myself A LOT. When meeting lots of people in a short time, there usually a lot more understanding of people getting names wrong.

    Even with all that, I’ve been in your shoes. Zoom style meetings where people’s names are on their image are super helpful… as are emails. Somebody mentions a funny cat pic ir cartoon… hey, could you email me a copy? Now you know who they are from their email.

    1. Generic Name*

      I sincerely hope the OP’s offices have names or at least even numbers on them. My last company was, let’s say quirky. It was about 75 people and company leadership refused to produce an org chart, offices had no labels whatsoever (no numbered rooms, and certainly no nameplates on doors), and they recently removed everyone except top leadership from the website. It was clear that because management didn’t have a problem locating offices where people set, they assumed no problem exists. People would ask where a coworker sits, and the answer would be “Oh, she sits in Brad’s old office” except Brad left 2 years ago and the person asking had no idea who Brad was or where he used to sit. When it was suggested that at least numbers were added to rooms, management looks confused at the idea. Asking for an org chart was met with outright hostility.

  23. Empress Ki*

    #1 : Have you thought about therapy for yourself ? I am saying this nicely. Maybe it could help you with your worries about your daughter.

    1. Worried Mom*

      Actually, yes. I will be seeing a therapist in two weeks. I obviously need an outside opinion on the best way to help my daughter. And I do understand that the answer might be “Stay out of it.”

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I actually think what you’ve been doing (helping with childcare and asking for a gut-check before offering advice) is incredible! But yes, as Alison said, she hasn’t invited advice in the job realm, and you really don’t know enough about her job situation to offer anything constructive. I think the best you can do right now is continue to help where you can (particularly with the kids) and offer a non-judgemental listening ear.

        Please be aware that the way this comments section works, many people who comment aren’t going to see your responses first, so are going to yell “stay out of it if you aren’t going to help!” not realizing that you are providing childcare. (We don’t always see each others’ comments first either, so there’s going to be a lot of piling-on and repetition in any case.)

      2. Boof*

        arg, sorry to be all over your comments – I think this is a really good idea, hopefully your therapist can give you much better advise on how to handle the things you are seeing from your daughter in the most productive way ie not adding to her stress but also not letting her stress rain down on the rest of her/your family like it sounds like may be happening from some of your comments.

  24. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #3 I’m severely faceblind, worsened in my later years by a registered visual disability.

    I was OK when working, because we had an online floorplan & phone directory with pictures.
    However, there are maybe 20 people at my gym that I”ve known for 10-20 years and address me by name, but I can’t do the same.

    I feel I’ve broken a social etiquette rule: when I’ve been sweating & naked with people for years I really should know their names :)

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      What’s worse is that new people very quickly know my name too.
      It’s like everyone but me has this superpower. Faces – and names – are just like meaningless static that I don’t receive.

      I can’t stop being faceblind, but this OP has finally motivated me to get serious about tactics to cope with new people.: I’ll keep repeating every name in my head until I can type them into my phone with a brief description.
      Still awkward to tackle those I’ve know 20 years though – office tactics don’t really apply to my gym.

      btw, it’s sooo useful if someone has vivid tattoos, standout piercings or multicoloured hair (which they don’t change later to natural!)
      Thank you to everyone who stands out like this.

      1. Elsewise*

        I’m very mildly faceblind (below the threshold of being an actual diagnosis but also noticeably worse than average), and people who have very recognizable hair and then change it suddenly are the bane of my existence.

        About ten years ago when my now-fiance and I were first dating, they met me at a work holiday party without telling me they’d done something different with their hair AND wore contacts. I’d never seen them without glasses in the daytime before, and as they got off the elevator I thought “oh, that person’s cute. Well, off to find my date!” Fortunately with ten years of exposure, their face is one of the few I can consistently recognize. Except when they shaved their head.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      My brain only read your last sentence without fully digesting the preceding paragraph. That was fun (no judgement either way of course ahaha)

  25. WoodswomanWrites*

    When I was visiting a friend, I washed some clothes there and didn’t realize his detergent was one of those scented ones. I react strongly to chemical scents and the smell hit me as soon as I opened the washer door. I ran them through again with plain water, then gave up and put them in the dryer. I only got the smell out once I got home and ran them through the wash with my unscented detergent. Nevertheless, I had one pair of pants that took multiple washes before I could get that chemical smell out. Ick.

    1. pally*

      Wow! I don’t use that stuff myself as I object to the strong scents. Some cause problems like headache or breathing issues for me. Don’t need that!

      Never realized how strongly those scents adhere to clothing. Probably why I encounter strong scents on people when going around in public. They may not have applied any sort of perfume, but I see now that the laundry scents can be equally overpowering.

  26. NormalPractice*

    OP1, most agencies these days send people for contracting work, not a series of short term temping assignments at different offices while you remain the employee of the agency throughout (i.e. filling in for an accounts payable person for 3 days or replacing a receptionist on a sick day with no notice, etc as was often done last century). I don’t know for certain this was the case for your daughter, but it likely was.

    In these cases, the agencies only carry you as an employee for the length of time one client wants your services then, unless they get something else lined up for you, let you go (it’s closer to a layoff than a firing and you are eligible for unemployment if a w-2 worker that otherwise qualifies). The official reason for being let go is they have no further work for you – this is a requirement for collecting unemployment (in fact, some agencies require that you formally ask and be told they have no additional work for you when an assignment ends or they won’t clear you with the state to get payments).

    It is also very possible that planned assignments end early because the company for which you are performing the work (the agency’s client) ends the engagement earlier than planned. I’ve had this happen several times for reasons ranging from the company being sold to a company that doesn’t use contract workers to a change in priorities that means the project I was working on got put on hold to a worse than expected financial report that led to staffing cuts that included all contractors. It happens.

    It’s also possible your daughter was let go for cause (actually fired) but certainly the reason she was given would lend itself to the other explanation.

    1. Orora*

      THIS. The first thing I thought was, “Was she let go from the agency or from the client?” If you’re working through an agency, you’re usually working for the client through the agency. The client may have any number of reasons to terminate a contract that have nothing to do with performance — they hired a permanent replacement, budget reasons, etc. That doesn’t mean you won’t necessarily get employed through the agency again when they have something that’s a fit for your skills. I’ve been let go from the client, but the agency kept me on its rosters to call if they have need for someone with my skillset; they did call me for work again when they had work that I was a fit for.

      If the agency said, “We’re not going to send you on other assignments” that would cause me concern because they usually like to be able to draw from as may different skillsets as possible. If an agency fires you, that’s a red flag. But being let go from a specific client isn’t necessarily an indication that something is wrong with your performance.

  27. Dog momma*

    some people use heavily scented dryer sheets, which I’m finding is bothering me more post chemo. I already have a permanent food aversion due to meat cooking, but now there are other things to add, perfume & cologne being something else I can’t stand. Glad I’m retired so at least that’s not an issue any more!

    1. DryerSheetsNeeded*

      In case you think they can automatically be eliminated for everyone, my sensitive skin can’t tolerate clothes without using a dryer sheet (I need both special laundry detergent for sensitive skin and the dryer sheet). They don’t come in unscented (that I’ve seen).

      1. Harper the Other One*

        This may be region dependent, but in Canada where I live Bounce and Snuggle both have fragrance free sheets (importantly at the same price as their scented ones.)

      2. mlem*

        There are definitely “unscented” dryer sheets, at least in the US. In my experience (with the Target store brand), they’re actually more like very-low-scent because they’ve been sitting in the perfume-bomb laundry aisle, but they reek far, far less than ones that don’t bill themselves as unscented.

      3. BettyD*

        I use Bounce fragrance-free dryer sheets for my clothes because I’m sensitive to both strong smells and scratchy clothes. They are a life-saver.

  28. An American(ish) Werewolf in London(ish)*

    I live in the UK and have never heard of scented product bans except on here (or, indeed, sensitivities that require accommodation here – I’m not saying they’re bad or wrong, just that I’ve not run across them).

    But I have a question regarding that. Say there’s someone who just doesn’t like a scent – there’s no allergies, no migraines etc – just doesn’t like it/them, and there’s someone in the office who just loves that particular scent (or uses a product like detergent or shampoo innocently, not realising that the scent is either strong or bothersome). Is it the responsibility of the person who uses the product to stop, or is it the person who simply doesn’t like the smell to just deal with it? (Honest question – I’ve just been wondering)?

    1. londonedit*

      I wonder whether our laundry products aren’t as strongly scented here. It’s only in the last couple of years that all these ‘scent booster’ products have come on to the market, and when I see people here commenting about how you can smell someone’s laundry detergent across the room it gives me pause for thought because I’ve never experienced that. We also don’t tend to use tumble driers nearly as much as in the US, so these heavily scented dryer sheets etc aren’t really part of the scent landscape here.

      I think in the case you describe, reasonable people would be able to work it out reasonably – I’d be disappointed if I couldn’t wear my favourite scent because someone I worked with hated it, but in the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal to not use it one or two days a week when I’m in the office. But if the person refuses to stop using it, and for the other person it’s just a case of ‘don’t like it’ rather than an actual allergy or getting migraines or whatever, then I’m not sure there’s much that can be done about it.

      1. An American(ish) Werewolf in London(ish)*

        Oddly, I do have a dryer, and do use Bounce (at great expense!) but it’s definitely NOT strongly scented – I can barely smell it. If I do use a liquid fabric softener (which I do when I’m not using the dryer) I can definitely smell it (and I like the smell) for a day, but after that, I find it fades (i.e. when I put the clothes away, I don’t smell it the next time I wear it, so I don’t think it’s just fragrance fatigue).

        And like you, I don’t think I’ve ever been able to smell someone’s laundry detergent or even shampoos etc. I do know people, however, who use WAY too much perfume or cologne. I don’t like it, but I live with it.

      2. Michigander*

        I’m American but live in the UK, and I have smelled some pretty strongly scented laundry detergent here (though I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen dryer sheets). I’m not sensitive but just don’t like the smell so we always use unscented. I can tell when my kids’ clothes were last washed at Granny’s house because I always get a very strong whiff of their scented laundry detergent when I take them out of the drawer.

        It would take a lot for me to tell someone I don’t like their laundry detergent though! Since I’m not allergic to anything and don’t get migraines or anything like that, as far as I’m concerned it’s my responsibility to just suck it up and deal with any smells I don’t like.

        1. bamcheeks*

          yes, I really notice the smell of my in-laws’ laundry– their whole house smells of it to me. I also really notice the smell of any secondhand clothes I get for my kids, and if it’s something they put on immediately it disturbs me *so* much that they smell wrong.

          That said, it’s impossible to know what’s “strongly scented” and what’s just the WRONG scent. I don’t deliberately buy scented products but it’s very possible that our stuff smells just as distinctive to someone else.

          1. curly sue*

            The secondhand clothing stores in my region spray everything down with some kind of insecticide to get rid of bedbugs, and it leaves a very distinctive “Value Village Smell.” We wash everything second-hand before it goes into use, because lord knows what that stuff would do to people’s skin over time.

      3. WomWombat KoalaLala*

        Im in Australia and scent boosters have only just appeared in supermarkets as well.
        Thankfully Ive never come anyone with strongly scented clothing, and I suppose our stubborn stance on using fresh natural air to dry clothing instead of dryers has made scent boosters not so popular here.

    2. Lady Lessa*

      I tend not to be sensitive to scents, but there are certain smells that I detest with a passion. I just live and try to avoid them. Fortunately, no one uses popcorn as a perfume.

      1. MsM*

        I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there are a bunch of indie perfumes out there that use popcorn as a scent note. (If it helps, they usually just end up smelling like sweet corn or pure butter, though.)

        1. Lady_Lessa*

          Since none of my co-workers have discovered them, I don’t have to stand upwind of them.

          In fact, only one (and he’s a man) wears noticeable scents. Fortunately, he is a field tech, as well, so not in the office much.

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I’ve also never heard of scent bans, except on here. I’ve worked in the Uk and in several mainland European countries, mainly Germany.

      I’ve an excellent nose and even my own laundry (Lenor perfumed both detergent & softener) I’d have to be 6 inches away to smell.
      I wonder if some of the chemicals posing most problems in US workplaces are banned here?

      In Germany, if someone was allergic to anything, I’d expect an accommodation from the employer, not the employee (except for really minimally intrusive actions such as banning peanuts).

      So, maybe wfh, or if not practical then a private office with high-powered air filtration system, or retraining for an outdoor job.
      If just a preference, or not an allergy documented by a doctor (costfree on state healthcare) they’d probably just have to suck it up or leave. Even Axe isn’t banned anywhere I know.

      1. NotFrequentHereEither*

        I’ve worked in dozens of US offices (I’ve done a lot of contracting) and never encountered a scent ban. Nor has it ever come up at any of the many hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of interviews I’ve had. I’d never heard of them except as something my migraine dr’s office requests if possible (which it isn’t for me) before reading of them in previous posts on this site.

        That said, it clearly does happen given the posts here. Being asked to go scent free for an interview has become a personal fear now as it would force me to reveal medical conditions before an interview that I normally wouldn’t have to ever disclose even if I got the job.

    4. Spencer Hastings*

      To your last question: I think it’s the latter. I myself hate the smell of a certain food that’s generally regarded as good-smelling and delicious, but I try to keep it a secret from most people that I don’t like it.

      I think to myself, what would happen if a new cube neighbor showed up and said, “Can you stop drinking coffee in the office? I hate the smell of coffee.” I come down on the side that I’d rather have my coffee, even if it means they have their oranges. The other way seems like it would just lead to a lot of nitpicking and policing.

    5. Ellis Bell*

      I think it’s more cultural to not complain here, even when we should. I know a few scent sensitive people and they have twisted themselves into knots trying to avoid someone heavily perfumed by getting themselves seated elsewhere or near a window so they can be comfortable without having to say anything. As to what would happen when it’s merely a preference, people just simply don’t notice a fragrance all that much when it’s not actually hurting them. You might notice it on entering a room and think “Ugh I don’t like that” but you have the ability to not focus on it, a bit like how you stop noticing the smell of poo at the zoo or manure in the countryside. I suppose that’s why bans are never about scent preferences! When it’s actually hurting you it’s just really not like that. I’ve been with my partner when he’s trying to escape a scent he’s allergic to and it’s like his face is caving in.

    6. MapleHill*

      Well in the workplace, a ban would be related to either someone’s medical condition or scents in general (not just one person’s scent). So it’s not a matter of not liking a certain scent- that’s something you’d have to either suck it up or address with them yourself and hope they’re kind enough to change it up.

      As someone who is very sensitive to some scents (though not sure it’s a medical condition), I can be around people whose scents I don’t like and wouldn’t expect anyone to change it because I don’t like it.

      But certain products- the worst culprits are cigarette smoke, perfumes & colognes, body sprays & air freshener sprays- all things some people feel it’s okay to just randomly spray in the office and make it difficult to breathe to the point I have to leave for 15 minutes or so until the smell dissipates. There are some people just wearing the perfume already that make it hard to breathe near them and I genuinely cannot imagine how one can put on THAT much perfume!

      I even have to limit what I wear myself because a strong hand sanitizer or hand lotion will bother me greatly. I usually go for unscented, but sometimes unscented items smell even worse (can anyone explain this!).

      Fortunately, I don’t smell things like people’s laundry detergent/products or shampoos on them. So glad my nose isn’t that sensitive, though it does make me a bit self conscious to hear laundry detergents can be so strong to some.

    7. Celebrate Good Times*

      I’ve worked at mostly large companies in the US for 25 years and never heard about a scent ban at work until I found this site. No one in my family or any friends have mentioned it either. I feel like maybe this site makes it seem like a more common thing than it really is?

      1. I should really pick a name*

        In my experience, a scent policy typically only exists if a company has an employee who has a significant sensitivity to fragrances.

      2. BikeWalkBarb*

        I work in a public agency in the state of Washington. We have signage about not wearing scented products to work as a matter of making the workplace function better for people with chemical sensitivities.

        I haven’t been in many public agency buildings since COVID so I don’t know how common it is, but it’s certainly simpler to do it for the building than to make people ask for individual accommodations that won’t hold up the first time they walk down a different hallway to a different office.

      3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

        It can really depend on the circles you travel in. I have family members who are scent-sensitive enough that I have changed laundry detergents for so that we can share a room during a visit.
        It can also be greatly affected by the environment – spaces that have a lot of airflow can be preferable to closed offices that have those scents layering in from day to day. Air purifiers and even desk fans can help alleviate some of the reactions on the part of the scent-sensitive.

    8. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I think it really depends on a lot of factors. If is just a dislike of the scent, they don’t have any reaction to it or it doesn’t make them nauseated, and the scent isn’t over powering then they can’t dictate that the other person not wear it. You shouldn’t be able to smell the person after they have left the room. You are going to come across some items you don’t like the scent of, whether that is a perfume, their clothing from smoke, or just something someone had for lunch. It’s part of sharing a space.

      I think it does matter if they are sitting in close parameters. For example if the two people have to share a small cubical and are only a few meters away from each other, then I think the person who dislikes the smell could politely ask the other not to wear it or to use less.

  29. Still Working in my PJs*

    #3 – I am horrible with names and spend a long time working as a consultant, where I would embed at a new place and work for a few months, it was hard. I was so happy when I landed at a place that had org charts with pictures attached. Are you in any place/role where you can suggest that? It would be great for orientation generally and I have found that super helpful. If I didn’t have pictures, simply studying the cart and remembering what people do also proved helpful.

  30. A Book about Metals*

    For #3, maybe next time a new person starts you can be the one to take them around to meet the new coworkers. Then go up to someone whose name you don’t know “Wanted to introduce you to Jim, he’s starting in accounts receivable today”. Then coworker will intro himself to Jim- repeat 39 other times

    1. Beany*

      What if existing coworker expects *you* to give their name to the newcomer? That’s what I’d expect to happen.

      1. A Book about Metals*

        Damn – you’ve found a loophole in my foolproof plan! I don’t have a plan B so I guess fake a sudden ailment and blame that for the confusion

        1. Cordelia*

          Your Plan A worked for me, with a modification….I had a new trainee and confessed the problem to them, then I took them round the building and said to each person in turn “hi, I want to introduce my trainee Taylor”. Taylor would then say to them “pleased to meet you, and your name is?” while I smiled serenely and took frantic mental notes.

  31. M*

    LW1: As a woman of about the same age as your daughter, here’s the script. “Through my lens, it seems like you’ve been a little extra stressed lately. I want you to know I’m here. Can I help with the kids? Or bring over a meal or two? Run an errand for you? If there’s something I can take off your plate or if you need an ear to listen or if you just need a shoulder to cry on, I’m a phone call away. And if you think it goes deeper than just a little extra stress, please don’t wait to get help. I love you.” Be there for her. Do NOT give examples of how her stress is affecting her husband or kids. Do not say that you wonder if she has the same attitude at work. These are red flag relationship stoppers IMO.

    1. Juicebox Hero*

      As another woman around the same age, that could come across to me as naggy AF and make me run screaming to the closest therapist :D This is entirely due to the fact that my mother was forever dropping little passive aggressive hints about how I wasn’t handling things the way she thought I ought to, then getting all huffy and offended if I said I dared to disagree with her advice and saying she told me so if things went wrong.

      1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        I’m extremely confused. M’s script is not remotely PA? They say, “This is what I think I’m seeing. Can I help (specific examples)? Ending with affection.” I can not think of any way this could be more direct. Possible answers are “No thank you”, “Yes please do X”, “You know, I am feeling stressed now that you mention it”. I think this is your own dirty lens.

        You’re reading it as “nagging” and “you’re doing this wrong” instead of “valid concern that I’m allowed to disagree with”.

        1. Juicebox Hero*

          And I’m confused by your confusion.

          I’m stating how I’d receive it based on my own relationship with my own mother. I phrased it “that would come across to me” (“could” is a typo; I do apologize if that’s where the confusion is coming from) for that reason.

          My point was that the efficacy of M’s script would be would depend on the mother, the daughter, and their relationship with each other. The daughter in a loving, supportive relationship would appreciate her mother’s concern and would feel that she could answer honestly.

          My mother wasn’t loving and supportive. She was passive-aggressive, manipulative, and just plain mean a lot of the time. I couldn’t even pick a restaurant to eat at without being put through an emotional wringer.

          We all see life through our own dirty lenses, and mine definitely has my mother’s fingerprints all over it.

  32. Juicebox Hero*

    I’d gladly help #3 because of the specter of a nameless acquaintance from college.

    We were there for the same four years. We were both commuter students. She knew my name. She was very friendly with me. She was a psychologly major. Her favorite lunch was peanut butter and grape jelly on an onion bagel. We played cards together and stuff. After graduation, a couple of times she saw me walking around town because I didn’t drive at the time and gave me a lift. We had nice conversations about what we were up to post graduation.

    I have no frigging clue what her name was and it still sort of bugs/puzzles me.

    1. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Agreed, and while I don’t think it changes the question or the advice given to make that distinction, I think it’s important to make sure that LW is using the right distinction. It would cause me additional stress and make me feel like I’m not being heard if my mother referred to the situation as me having been fired when that wasn’t the case.

  34. who are you again?*

    I’d wait for an occasion to come up where I needed to email something – the way our emails were formatted, I could say “remind me how you spell your last name?” and it worked pretty well until someone says “S M I T H” lol

    1. BikeWalkBarb*

      I once asked a woman how she spelled her last name. She looked at me as if I were from another planet and v-e-r-y slowly spelled out J-O-N-E-S. My response: “I know a woman who spells her last name J-O-N-Z. Her nametag has a long line over the O so people pronounce her name correctly. I always ask because I want to get your name right.”

      Smith could have spellings from Smythe to Smithe to other variations I haven’t encountered yet.

    2. Evan Þ*

      That reminds me of a story… Back when my little sister was in elementary school, one of her classes got a new teacher. On his first day, he went down the roll calling everyone’s first name and asking them to correct his pronunciation and say how they’d pronounce their last name.

      This worked fine until one Miss Smith answered “I think you know how to pronounce my last name.”

      Teacher glanced down at the written class roster and answered “Ah yes, ‘Sm-eye-th.”

  35. OP4*

    Just to clarify a couple things, our boss and most of our coworkers are aware that we’re friends but not that we’re close enough to be vacationing together. There are other people who could cover our work, it’s just that it would default to us unless we explain. I also just did overtime last week to cover someone else’s vacation so hopefully that will work in my favor.

    This was perfect timing since my friend is planning to talk to our boss today. I’ll report back after.

    1. ecnaseener*

      I was going to say that if you have time, I would try to “let the cat out of the bag” in casual ways before the news of the joint vacation gets out, so that people are finding out in a context of “Huh, Jane is telling a funny story from years ago in which Fergus figures prominently, guess they’re closer friends than I realized” rather than a context of “Whoa, Jane and Fergus are going on vacation together?!”

      It sounds like you might not have time for that, but I think it’s still worth doing where possible so that people at least realize you were already close before you started this job and it’s not an office romance situation. (And if you’re out at work, it wouldn’t hurt if some of your stories included mentions of your exes or other reminders that you’re gay.)

      1. OP4*

        I think we have laid that kind of groundwork. People know that my friend referred me (it’s very common here so that’s not an issue) and we haven’t really been hiding it. I think I’m just letting my frustration over people not letting men and women be friends without making it weird get to me. Everywhere we go people assume we’re a couple and (straight) people tend to dismiss my orientation. I also remember at least one past letter here about a man and woman going on vacation and some of the comments didn’t help.

        I guess this is really a frustration with heteronormativity more than a work question.

        1. Firefly*

          Would you like another puzzling heteronormativity story? In my industry it is very common for coworkers to share a room at conferences. One year, three men from my department were presenting at a conference and admin booked single room with 2 beds and a pull out couch. The next year a lesbian, a straight man and me (female bisexual) were presenting at the same conference. The gender and orientations of all of us were known to all our coworkers. The admin booked a room with two beds and another room – leading to lively conversations about whether the historical practice of rooming by gender was to ensure no hanky panky (so I should get the single room) or no one in danger of seeing another type of genitalia (in which case the male coworker should get the single room). What would you think should be done here?

          1. staying anon for now*

            Not really answering your question, but I think adults should not have to share rooms when traveling for business. Did anyone ever ask the admin what their assumptions were when booking those rooms?

        2. staying anon for now*

          Commenting to say I understand and I would probably be up-front about your friendship and wanting to take a trip together. If people talk, well, not much you can do about that.

          I understand because I am a straight woman and one of my best friends is a man. Before my husband passed away, we all used to travel together. I recently traveled with him in my new, unwanted status as a widow and have another trip planned. Amazing how many people suddenly think there is something other than friendship going on.

    2. I should really pick a name*

      You know your coworkers best, but I think you might be over-estimating the amount of gossip resulting from this.

      If anyone asks you, just a matter of fact “we’re good friends” is enough. Don’t treat it like a big deal, and if they tease you, don’t spend a lot of energy pushing back. Being boring can help kill gossip.

      1. OP4*

        I’ve been trying to do that but my friend already got some comments from a coworker who was being obnoxious about his assumptions. I know it’s not a huge deal, it’s just really frustrating that people act like this. Trying to get our vacation is the more important part.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          It’s easier said than done, but I think you’re both better fronting it out than being caught looking like you’re trying to hide a relationship. They already know you’re friends, right? They must expect that you do things together. What is so shocking about sleeping in nearby rooms away from home?!! If your friend has an obnoxious coworker I would treat that as a separate issue. This is probably the lens of my own experience, but is the friend being overly gross and sexualising you because ‘why else would you be friends with a woman?’ Most people are not like that and I think it’s reasonable to treat him like he’s the problem.

  36. Michelle Smith*

    LW1: Find other ways to be supportive. Are you able to allow her space to vent about what’s going on without jumping in with either judgement or a solution? Are you able to help her with occasional babysitting so she has some time alone or date time with her partner? Can you invite the family over for weekly Saturday dinners or bring food to them so they have one day without having to worry about cooking and cleanup? Brainstorm and offer some support without overstepping the boundaries she’s set and you may be able to help her destress.

  37. Percysowner*

    LW1 One thing to keep in mind is, when employee cuts are made “Last hired, first fired” is a cliche for a reason. Perhaps your daughter has done something on the jobs that caused her to lose them. She may also be the victim of poor timing. In any case, let her figure it out, herself.

  38. WantonSeedStitch*

    Yeah, speaking as a woman in my mid-40s under a lot of stress, the LAST thing I want is for my mom to tell me that my stress is the problem and my life would be easier if I weren’t so stressed out, without thinking that maybe I wouldn’t be so stressed out if my life were easier. Worried about her stress levels? Try, “You seem stressed, honey. Is there anything I can do to help? I’d be happy to take the kids for an overnight or two to give you some down time, or whatever you need.”

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Right? If telling someone that they’re too stressed and have they tried not being stressed? cured being stressed, none of us would be stressed! Right now one thing that would make me way less stressed would be a few extra thousand dollars, but so far no one’s offered that.

      1. Broadway Duchess*

        Agreed. Also, if OP’s daughter is stressed in a stressful circumstance, there’s nothing wrong with her — she should be stressed!

      2. WantonSeedStitch*

        Yeah, in my case, it’s lack of a wait list for therapists to deal with a preschooler whose not-yet-diagnosed ADHD is making me worry about him getting kicked out of daycare for good, but no one can give me that. But sympathy and understanding, lack of blame, and an offer to help if I think of something concrete? GOLD.

    2. Cat Tree*

      Also, she knows that she lost two jobs. She’s aware. What would it achieve to point out something that she already knows?

  39. Inkognyto*

    for op #3.

    With names tie it to the Job roles or dept. “Janet in Engineering”, “Jack in creative design”

    The more reference points to something you have in your head, the easier it is to remember. Find something that makes more points. “Blue haired Crissy in interior design”

  40. A Simple Narwhal*

    “Everyone has a fatal flaw that would kill them in a Greek tragedy, and this is mine.”

    Pure poetry. As someone who also struggles with names, I felt this deep in my soul.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      I want to write the story about this. Like maybe the protagonist doesn’t realize someone is the king and they get banished because of it?

      1. bamcheeks*

        I did once have someone wander into my department and I said helpfully, “Hello, are you looking for something?” and she blinked and said, “I’m the CEO?” Like it wasn’t TERRIBLE, but I definitely should have recognised her!

      2. A Simple Narwhal*

        Oh that’s a good one! I pictured something like having to call out for someone (to stop what they’re doing or to help me) and not being able to because I didn’t remember their name and a disaster happens as a result.

      3. Part time lab tech*

        Didn’t that happen to one of Henry the 8th’s wives? The Anne that he divorced?

        1. A Simple Narwhal*

          Yes! When they first met Henry put on a disguise in an attempt to be romantic – he had done it before and the woman had always swooned and loved it, but Anne of Cleves didn’t recognize him and instead just saw an old fat guy breaking into her room and grabbing her, and reacted accordingly. Henry was offended/embarrassed and that set the tone for their whole relationship.

  41. Green Tea*

    LW3: Go onto LinkedIn and search your company’s name – then filter for ‘people.’ You should be able to see pictures and names, so can match names to the faces you recognize. You won’t get everyone this way, but you should get some of them at least.

  42. zolk*

    LW #3: I’m faceblind/have aphantasia and often find myself in rooms at work with people who _definitely_ know me and I have no idea who they are. (I am mid-level and only measure one casual staff member.) One of my go-tos is to ask them to spell their name or email address so I can send them something, which helps a lot. I’ve also asked my boss for a directory of everyone who works on related projects with their faces, names, and room numbers.

    You can ask for certain accommodations! They’re probably helpful for everyone.

    In my case I also tell people upfront that if I don’t react to them in public it’s not a snub; I simply don’t recognize them. My friends who live in the same neighbourhood have given up on getting my attention and just text me instead.

    1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

      I’m also faceblind! I have a few dramatic stories (not recognizing my own sister on the airplane to the family reunion, forgetting my best work friend’s face over the course of a weekend) that I like to roll out when introducing myself to people I’ll be working with long-term, so they’re aware that it’s not personal.

      Being able to study a thing with pictures and names is vital to me being able to remember people, and I wish all workplaces had directories of that sort.

  43. Sneaky Squirrel*

    LW1 – Say nothing unless she solicits the advice. There’s simply not enough information to determine whether her attitude at work is the reason or even a factor. Additionally, it sounds like you have already spoken to her about the need for a therapist. Continuously pushing on advice that she doesn’t value will only push her away.

  45. Applesauced*

    #3 you need a Gary/Tony Hale from Veep, whispering names and facts as people approach you

    #4 if you would typically be each other’s covers / can’t be off at the same time, can you structure overlapping vacations? You take off Thursday and Friday, your friend joins for the weekend, you go back and they stay for another day or two. This would work best for a holiday weekend when you have 3 days (S-S-M) of overlap.

    1. daffodil*

      I literally did a search to find if someone else mentioned Veep. I think they called it “gary-oke” in the show. I’d have been amazing at that when I was younger. Now I get memory freezes too often– age, parenting, idk.

  46. i drink too much coffee*

    For the name thing, I have a hilarious anecdote: As a freshman in high school in a new town, I met this guy waiting for the bus one day. Just chatting. We ran into each other at school for months and months… having tons of conversations. I’d even considered him a friend by then. By the end of the school year I STILL DID NOT KNOW HIS NAME.

    Eventually I found an old yearbook from his middle school and found him. Years later, still friends, I told him this story and he has never let me live it down.

    He officiated my wedding, and even brought it up during the ceremony hahaha.

  47. NottheBoomer*

    Re: NAMES
    I usually find something that I can remember them by.
    Like’ tall guy with glasses is Gus’ or ‘woman with Red hair is Rachel’. It will just take time and nothing wrong with saying ‘wow your name has totally slipped my mind today- what is it again?’

  48. Parenthesis Guy*

    #1: Being fired and being laid off are two different things. If there was a reduction in force due to budget cuts, then that’s being laid off and not fired. Given the language used in the question, I’m also not sure I understand what being laid off from the employment agency means. Does it mean that her contract ended and they had no more work for her? Does it mean that they told her that she can’t come back and they won’t consider placing her again? Obviously, these things have different connotations.

    Depending on her family’s financial situation, and whether her family needs her paycheck, I can understand why she might be extremely stressed. If I were you, I would focus less on getting her to see a therapist and more about trying to find ways to alleviate some of the stress she feels.

  49. Fiona*

    I understand why people are saying that OP #1 should offer to help her stressed daughter, but for me, the last thing I want to hear when stressed is my mom saying “You seem stressed.” I would actually prefer to hear that she’s proud of me, that she wants to spend time with me, that she likes and enjoys me. I know that’s hard when OP’s mom sees everything going down with her daughter (which seems legit concerning), but I wonder if she can just be a positive, neutral, soft landing place for her daughter who seems like she’s going through it. So not like, “you seem like you’re falling apart at the seams” but like “your husband is going to watch the kids, can we catch a movie or a bite? I love spending time with you.”

    1. Lady Danbury*

      This! How about offering specific ways to help address the stress such offering to babysit, grocery shop or prep a few meals? My sister was having a tough time with PPD when her first child was young, so my mom (along with other family members) offered to step in and help support her husband so that she could go visit another family member for a complete mental health break. Therapy is all well and good (my sister was already seeing a therapist and is a therapist herself), but sometimes you need practical support to address the stressors in your life.

      1. Observer*

        How about offering specific ways to help address the stress such offering to babysit, grocery shop or prep a few meals?

        I’m seeing a lot of these comments, and it’s a bit unfair. The LW has actually posted that she does babysit on a regular basis, including to allow Daughter to just get out and / or go out with her husband.

        Which is to say that the LW *is* trying to offer practical support.

        1. Lady Danbury*

          That’s new information that wasn’t included in the original question. Obvs we wouldn’t be offering those types of suggestions if we knew that they were already being implemented! Given that Alison nixed OP’s suggestion, it’s not unreasonable or unusual for the commentariat to suggest other ways that a LW might be helpful.

        2. Boof*

          Sorry, I missed the comment earlier / it wasn’t in the letter – I know LWs can only include so much and I wouldn’t assume either way, but you don’t know what you don’t know and that’s low hanging fruit if not already in progress.

    2. Boof*

      Yea good point, but there are ways of inquiring if someone needs something that depend a lot on the overall tone and nuance of the relationship. For some “hey, you’ve seemed pretty stressed for a while, are things ok / is there anything I can do to help” may be fine, for others it may land as a criticism, and a softer touch / just being there and open and safe/pleasant/available whenever they need might be best.
      … I tend to be a pretty blunt person (I try really hard not to be a jerk about it but I think it’d be nigh impossible for me to not ask something like that on someone I cared about indefinitely) but I know there are a lot of folks who very much do not say the quiet part out loud like I invariably do so whichever way works for them is fine

  50. Nancy*

    LW1: your daughter was laid off, not fired. Please, stay out if it.

    LW2: Fragrance-free offices don’t ban products, people just cannot come in with a heavy scent. This is not the same as being a member of the public visiting a museum, though. Also, wasn’t this already posted a week ago?

    1. Coffee Protein Drink*

      It comes up frequently.

      As someone who spends a fair amount of time in shared closed spaces like mass transit and elevators, I really appreciate when people lay off the scent.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      Also, wasn’t this already posted a week ago?

      Yes, it looks like it was posted in the July 12, 2024 open thread by “Guest.” The letter-writer probably emailed the question in some time ago (weeks or months) and assumed it was OK to ask on the open thread because it hadn’t been answered in an official post yet. It happens occasionally that the same question is asked/answered in an open thread and in a post.

  51. Sneaky Squirrel*

    LW1 – One of the worst things about a job (whether it’s having a job or job searching) is when people who don’t have all the information bring in their unsolicited advice about how I should do better. Don’t bring up your daughter’s attitude in regards to her job. There’s not enough information for you to determine whether your daughter’s attitude or work performance had anything to do with her past year’s job loss. It would likely only drive a wedge between you two, especially since you have already brought up therapy in the past.

  52. Spooky Spiders*

    At Last Job, we constantly had new people joining! I set a firm rule for myself of one new name a day, otherwise I’d lose them all. It worked pretty well, sometimes I’d forget the one name or mishear it (sorry Dalton!), sometimes I’d learn two and it would be okay. I’d ask people’s trainers to introduce us, or ask someone’s friend. It was the type of job where it was easy to be friendly with a lot of people without knowing their names.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Ha! I used to work in an aluminum plant (long story), and I had coworkers with names like “Dirty Old Man”, “Woman who always wears Alan Jackson t-shirts”, “Guy Who Looks Like a Serial Killer Guy”, “Woman with the rooster mohawk”, etc. It was too fast, too hot, and too late at night for other people to learn other people’s names. I have no idea what they called me.

  54. Having a Scrummy Week*

    #4 is so weird to me. I’ve worked in many offices where people are friends outside of work and would go on vacations together. Just request the same time off, you shouldn’t need to explain your personal relationships to anyone.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      It depends so much on the culture, and OP seems to think it would be some kind of thing in their office. That doesn’t mean they SHOULD have to explain anything, but “know your office” is such a big part of so many questions that get posted here it’s reasonable to take their word that it would have some kind of social impact.

  55. LostCommenter*

    I’m truly horrible with names. so I start every new job with a rough map of the office and as I figure out names I would add it. then on trips into/ out of the office or to the break room, I would try to recite who sits at the spots I pass by on the way. I suspect I suffer from some kind of face blindness because I absolutely can’t identify people until I’ve chatted with them a few times, but luckily I either found some unconscious way to adapt or my brain just starts paying attention to hair/eye colour after a while.

  56. JP*

    A while back, the facilities person put those febreeze small space air fresheners in every bathroom in the building. It was awful, you could smell them everywhere, whether you were near a bathroom or not. I was able to get an air purifier and leave my door ajar and that barely made it tolerable. I spoke with him, and he said he wouldn’t put them in the downstairs bathrooms near my office again (apparently the main issue was the upstairs men’s bathroom smelling like urine).

    I came in last week and there were brand new air fresheners in all the bathrooms, smelling really strong and unpleasant, like some sort of weird grapefruit scent or something? I went into the women’s bathroom by me and threw the thing into a trash bag, double bagged it, and threw it in the dumpster outside. Now the dumpster reeks of air freshener. But I don’t have to take a hit of my inhaler throughout the day from the scent.

  57. Fluffy Fish*

    OP1 – One of the hardest adjustments from parenting a child to being the parent of an adult is understanding while your care and concern hasn’t changed – your role absolutely has.

    Your job now isn’t to solve her problems – it’s simply to love and support her. That means no unsolicited advice. At all.

  58. CSRoadWarrior*

    #1 – Budget cuts likely meant a layoff, not firing. But I will not speculate here.

    On a more important note, I know OP is the mother and it is natural to be concerned. But she shouldn’t butt in. It is one thing to be concerned, but the daughter is a grown woman in her 40s. Helping and giving advice is one thing, but being a helicopter parent is another thing entirely.

    I speak from my own point of view too. As a 35 year old man living independently on my own with a steady job, I totally understand why. Though my mother never would cross the line in any way. She knows I am an adult.

  59. AcadLibrarian*

    #3 – my problem too. Do people have nameplates on cubes or offices? That’s what I did. Take a walk around with a coffee cup and scope out names and faces.

  60. Anonymel*

    LW3: I like Alison’s suggestion. Your colleague could also, instead of whispering the names simply say “Hi Joe!” “Hey Susan!” etc… here and there as you wander. Also, wondering if your workplace has cubicles with names on the side or nameplates on desks? Simply wandering over to someone’s desk to say hello and discreetly looking at their name on the wall/desk could help. Then, write them down “Susan, accounting,” “Joe, supplies,” etc.. because writing helps to make memories more concrete. Lastly, does your company per chance have a “Get to Know Our Team” page on its website? Or are people’s names and pics in your internal company directory? That’s a great place to start, if so! Good Luck. I am the WORST with names, too!

  61. girlie_pop*

    LW #1: A good friend of mine was laid off twice in the span of like, 6 months. Nothing he did, just very crummy luck and a tough time for the industry.

    Also, to be blunt, adult children don’t always share everything with their parents, particularly if they can guess what their response will be and don’t want to hear it. If you have expressed concerns about your daughter “seeming stressed” and she doesn’t want to open that conversation back up, she might actually know the reason and just be giving you limited information to avoid in-depth conversation about it. I’m not trying to be harsh or imply that you’re an overbearing parent or anything, just saying that a lot of adult children moderate the info they share with their parents for a lot of reasons.

  62. Pizza Rat*

    When I saw the headline, I thought the daughter was about 16.

    Being let go for budget reasons is increasingly common, as is working contract. These are layoffs, not firings. Helping by watching the kids is a great thing. So is being open to what she wants to talk about or giving advice when she acts. Unsolicited advice is rarely taken and only causes resentment.

    I think it you back off, LW1, you will help more than you realize.

  63. Tiredofit all*

    LW1 — I think once you have been laid off, and lack steady job background, it gets harder to find next job, and you may be forced to take job with less secure companies.

  64. Shelly*

    #3: in law school, I scanned a seating chart for a class we all had together, went onto the school’s student database, copied my classmates’ photos and pasted the photos onto a seating chart. I knew it was super weird and creepy, but I learned my classmates’ names way quicker than most of my friends. As a worker, I have been known to draw out office configurations and written people’s names.

  65. RJ*

    I don’t think I could possibly explain how perilous and easy to lose employment is in this current market. I just started a new job three months ago after searching for nearly a year. Others in the tech field have run into the same situation as LW1’s daughter. It is unimaginably hard out there and I’m not surprised she’s stressed.

  66. Yes And*

    LW1: It’s funny, I was just thinking about Alison’s constant refrain to parents who want to butt into their adult children’s professional lives, because last night my wife and I had dinner with my mother. She expressed her deep concern about how often we’ve both changed jobs.

    Friends, I’m on my fourth job in 18 years since I switched to my current career path. My wife has never left a job before at least two full years, including some instances where she should have left sooner. We are both highly accomplished professionals with leadership positions at prestigious employers – and we got to where we are by changing jobs when it became apparent that our skills had more market power than we were currently realizing. But, you see, in my mother’s day, people just didn’t change jobs that often, if ever.

    Parents, please listen to Alison, and don’t offer career advice to your adult children unless they ask for it. You are almost certainly missing crucial information, and the best you’ll accomplish is to annoy your kids.

    1. Yup*

      My parents are constantly offering 1980s housing, career, housekeeping, parenting advice to us. (They owned 1 house and each had 2 jobs over 40+ years).

      1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

        Yes! Glad I have one parent who had several careers, because the others (bio and step) were “lifers” of 30+ years with the same employer. I haven’t had a ton of jobs, and only one layoff which was department-wide and not performance based,* but one parent still described my resume as “checkered” and worries it’s a problem for interviewers. I’ve never had a job of less than two years and no interviewer has ever asked about the number of jobs, so I don’t think it’s a thing?

        *Most people say their layoffs weren’t performance-based. I’m pretty sure mine wasn’t because I was the only person with this job (so no stack-ranking), had just had a strong review, was well ahead on my numbers and was asked if I wanted to apply for the same job as a contractor. (NOPE!) But, you never know. Thankfully it was eight years ago and hasn’t haunted me in searches.

        1. Rainy*

          Both of my parents have had at least two careers–my dad, who was born in the 40s, had three full careers, two of which he retired from. After 25+ years in public health, he retired to be a trailing spouse, was overeducated and overqualified for public health jobs in the area of my mum’s first BLM posting, and ended up getting into journalism instead. He spent another 20 years as a journalist and photographer, and retired for the second (and hopefully final) time six or seven years ago, in his seventies.

          My parents 100% don’t get what I do and honestly haven’t understood anything about my professional life since grad school. Luckily, they also don’t try to give me career advice! My husband’s dad hasn’t held a job since 2003 and his mother was forced to retire in 2020, and they are both constantly trying to give my husband “career advice”. All of it is bad. Like, really really bad. His mother actually went to her local Workforce Center and had an appointment with a career coach there to talk about my husband’s career. Their main concern seems to be that my creative, artistic husband, who is actually working in his creative field, has a job they don’t consider brag-worthy.

  67. junior*

    Oh gosh I feel for LW3 – not quite the same, but I struggle pretty severely with remembering faces. However, I DO have a confidant, and he has helped me out so much. I can ask without too much embarrassment who someone is, and he’ll remind me.

  68. MS*

    re #3 – Go back through your emails and then search on LinkedIn to match up names with faces. Make sure your LI browsing settings are set to private (https://www.linkedin.com/help/linkedin/answer/a567226/?lang=en) so the entire company doesn’t see you creeping. You could even make a private document with name, title/role, a photo and a reason for you to remember them – i.e. James in finance is the guy who really likes corgis and wears a lot of sweaters.

  69. Yup*

    As a grown-up child, I would like to offer that all grown-up children really want is to be seen and understood and loved for who they are. The best ways to support that are to offer the kind of help that is actually seen as helpful by your child–babysitting, housecleaning, groceries, lawn care, a day at the spa, even paying for services like CV writing or headhunting. Or just listening and offering support. Your child isn’t who *you* think your child is. They are who they are, and you need to meet them at that very place.

    All we really ever want is to be truly seen. It feels like LW#1 wants to repaint the picture instead of appreciating the flawed beauty the human being who is her child.

  70. AnotherOne*

    OP3, I’m you. I’m horrible learning names.

    My advice? Be patient with yourself.

    They only have to learn your name. They’ve been there so while you’re learning 40+ new names, they only have to learn the one. Being that one new person is really rough if you have a hard time learning names.

    Personally, I tend to avoid saying names- it works surprisingly well. But I’m also just honest with people that I’m going to try really hard but I’ll probably ask their name again in the future. (A lot of people have the same problem and seem happy to have the problem acknowledged. To get the free pass of not being expected to learn my name right away.)

    I focus on learning the people I’m working with closest first, being able to properly saying their names, and than working on learning the names of people another degree removed, so forth.

  71. Mark*

    I definitely sympathize with #3. Going back to high school, I had serious issues with remembering names. At one job, I worked there almost three years and, even though we wore nametags, I only had memorized maybe 1/5 of the staff’s names.

    I used two methods to beat this. First, I made a point to work on just one name a week. I would spend the entire week mentally connecting that person’s face with their name. I put something on my desk that looked innocuous enough that nobody would ask about it, and that was my reminder several times a day to do this.

    I did that in combination with a visualization method from Dale Carnegie. Every time I see the person or mentally visualize them, I visualize something out of place and unusual. The more unusual it is, the more likely to remember it. For example, to remember a girl named Tracy, when I saw her I would imaging her carrying a tray of typewriters (I met her in typing class). To remember someone named Amy, I mentally pictured her doing the Fonzy thumbs-up saying, “Ayyyyyy”. A friend stopped by minutes ago with her dog Piper. When she first got the dog, to remember the name, I pictured the dog as the character Piper from the TV show Henry Danger.

  72. OP4*

    Our vacation was approved! They still have to work out the deals of how the work will be covered but the approval was granted and can’t be revoked. Our boss was even recommending places in our vacation destination we should check out while we’re there.

  73. Reading Rainbow*

    LW #3 and anyone else who is very sensitive to fragrances (like me!) I’ll tell you what I do when I can’t avoid it: Wear a face mask. Even a loose surgical mask will make an IMMENSE difference– it’ll stop me from getting a migraine even if I’m elbow deep in very smelly cleaning products for a long time.

    If people’s scents in public places or the fragrances sprayed around in some stores set you off, keep some masks in your bag and pop one on if you start to notice it. Curad and some other brands even have some cheap individually wrapped ones that are perfect for this so they don’t get all mussed up in your bag. I have a makeup bag with non-individually wrapped ones on me all the time, personally. Cloth masks also help but I have not found them to be nearly as effective as the disposable woven medical kind.

    (If your glasses fog up then you need to bend the nose wire better and scoot the glasses and the mask around your nose until you find the spot where the air is not directed into your glasses. I promise this is possible for everyone– it’s what we do in the operating room.)

  74. Green Goose*

    LW1, from someone in a similar situation: it’s best to hold back and wait if they ask advice.

    My younger sister, who I used to be much closer to sounds a lot like your daughter. She’s tightly wound and agitates easily. This started about six years ago and she has not consistently held a job in that time. She had one year long contract where they made it clear she would have been let go earlier but it was a type of contract that needs to be upheld. Everything else has been a few weeks to a few months with long periods of unemployment.
    This situation, which would be stressful for anyone, has really caused my sister to spiral. I also suggested therapy multiple times and tried to give advice when she told me about work situations where I felt she was acting in a way that would lead to a dismissal. But none of my advice was taken and my relationship with my sister has suffered. If I could go back I would not have told her what to do.
    We don’t talk about her work situation anymore, which is still not good, but our relationship is mending. I really want things to work out for her but I’ll wait until she directly asks for advice before I give it again. But it’s definitely hard! Good luck! And good luck to your daughter with her work journey!

  75. Mmm.*

    For #3, I’m always up front about being terrible with names. I tell them (truthfully) that it’s a family trait, and we’ve all been called every person and pet’s name many times. There will always be at least one person whose family is the same!

    I ask people to not be offended if I ask their names again and tell them I’ll get there in time. I’ve genuinely never had people get mad at me about it, likely because I’m transparent up front.

  76. Hold my beer*

    Re #1: I don’t think this has been mentioned yet (if so, apologies) and is a bit out of scope for the question, but in regards to “she has appeared extremely stressed and tightly wound for at least three years”, she is at the right age for perimenopause. It affects different people differently, however, I thought I was going completely batty during that time. A visit to a doctor to get checked for hormone or thyroid changes would at the very least give some semblance of understanding and there might be something the MD would recommend that might make all the difference in the world. It wasn’t until a colleague had a very vulnerable moment with me that I started to put the pieces together around my own mood change (with other super fun things too). I would have loved for my Mom to discuss the changes she went through (probably not pointing my behavior out- ha ha) and be my guide to something I really struggled with. I am hoping that some day soon, things like this will be discussed openly and not feel like it needs to be a vulnerable moment.

  78. TG*

    LW #1 – I don’t want to alarm you but I was married to someone who was very tightly wound after we had a child. He changed a lot and during that time work became an issue as they were concerned about his stress and the impact it had on him. He got anger management counseling and still didn’t help. We divorced and his career stalled because of his anger. He was let go last year and I told him it was best for him to maybe get a fresh start as he now works for a friend. I think he’s doing better. All this to say, your daughter probably doesn’t want to acknowledge she might have a stress issue but for her own mental well being, family AND work, she hopefully will get some help before it really impacts her career wise. I know you want to support her so I’d encourage her to take time for herself and to maybe do as much relaxing as she can when not working. Be gentle with her and maybe with some encouragement she will seek some help.

  79. Erica*

    LW1 just reads like… someone Of A Certain Generation who doesn’t comprehend how unstable employment is these days, especially through an agency! Sure, it’s possible the daughter did something wrong, but it’s equally possible she’s been “stressed and tightly wound” because it’s been hard to find a stable job through no fault of her own.

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