employee isn’t as productive on her WFH days, politics on LinkedIn, and more

by Alison Green on August 2, 2024

It’s four answers to four questions. Here we go…

1. My employee isn’t as productive on her WFH days

I work in a university on a small team of just me and one other, Claire. Claire is in her mid-30s and has been in her role for over 10 years, initially full-time and now three days a week since having her two children, who are both under five. Claire works Monday and Wednesday in the office and Tuesday at home.

My issue is that Claire’s Tuesdays at home are … seemingly not as productive as her days in the office. Whilst I’m confident that she does not have her children at home with her on Tuesdays (they are both in well-established childcare), I think that the issue may be that she is trying to use her Tuesdays at home to get caught up on housework, personal admin, etc.

Claire is a good worker — she gets her work done, meets deadlines, and is knowledgeable and personable. But she has mentioned to me on a couple of occasions about difficult times at home, citing behavior from her husband that I would say is unreasonable / bordering on being emotionally abusive — criticizing her, suggesting that she should be able to do more on the days she cares for the children, being unkind, etc.

I’d like to see more from Claire on a Tuesday, but I also don’t want to put her in a scenario where I’m micromanaging her on her days working from home or making things difficult for her at home if the cause of her lower productivity on a Tuesday is what I suspect it is and she is doing her best to manage both work and home life, as I have a responsibility to her as an individual (and also remember how difficult it is to work and keep a home with very young children). What do I do? Do I do anything?

Assuming you’re her manager, you should just name what you’re seeing, without speculating on the causes. For example: “I’m noticing that your Tuesdays at home don’t seem as productive as your days in the office. For example, (fill in with some specifics that illustrate the problem). I know there might be more to it than I’m seeing, so I wanted to ask you about your sense of that.”

It’s possible you’ll hear something you didn’t realize, like that Claire purposely saves all her deep-focus work for Tuesdays, and that stuff takes longer to produce tangible results that you can easily see, or it’s her day for catching up on phone calls with clients, or who knows what. But if there’s no explanation like that and Claire is in fact working less on those days (for whatever reason), this is a reasonable first step in addressing it.

This wouldn’t be about micromanaging her; it would be about flagging something you’re seeing and letting her figure out how to fix it, if needed.

2. Politics on LinkedIn

I am fairly active on LinkedIn – the type of work I do has a big community/social component and I love it. Of course, this means that sometimes, just because of how the feed works, I can see that someone “liked” something someone else posted. I am very conscious of this and really try to avoid interacting with anything controversial, political, etc because I treat LinkedIn as if I were in an office. But sometimes, someone I know/work with will “like: something that is either offensive, flat-out false, or both.

Recently a colleague of mine did this on a pretty political and, I felt, offensive post, which a quick google search also told me was completely unfounded. Unfortunately, I can’t unsee this, and I am so tempted to drop him a note and say, “Hey, FYI, people can see when you ‘like’ stuff like this and, by the way, it’s offensive and incorrect.”

Having read a lot of your columns, I feel fairly confident that you’re going to tell me to leave it alone (and I know, deep down, that that’s correct), but UGH. Everyone knows politics should be kept out of the workplace, but don’t they realize this should extend to LinkedIn?

They do not realize it! People use LinkedIn for some really weird shit these days, and they definitely don’t treat it like an office (or they’re the same people who are inappropriate in their office too).

But your instinct to leave it alone is correct. It’s not really your business and you don’t have the standing to school him on this (unless you’re his mentor or something similar to that). File it away as useful info about him, but otherwise leave it alone.

3. Client’s new employee is trying to take over my job

I work in a freelance capacity and have a client who I’ve worked with for quite a few years. She recently took on a new person, Sally, who works in a completely different field than me.

The company is small, I am part-time, and Sally is almost full-time. I am remote, mostly, and Sally is in the office. My issue is that Sally is acting as though she is my boss, correcting my work and in some instances making changes to it, suggesting things I’ve already researched and dismissed as though they are new exciting ideas, and digging through things I work on to find things that she thinks are wrong, then pointing them out in group emails. This is despite the fact she has no experience in my field. I wouldn’t dream of telling her how to do her job, so I’m not sure why she is trying to tell me how to do mine. It feels as though she is trying to take over my role.

I need to find a resolution to this or I won’t be able to continue working for my client. Do I approach Sally first and try to work things out between us? Or do I let my client know what’s happening? She has already had to explain to Sally who I am and my background and expertise, so it wouldn’t be coming out of nowhere. My client is lovely, and I know she wouldn’t want me to leave. However, I have a big project with another client coming up later this year, as well as a project of my own starting to take off, and I don’t need to feel this annoyed.

Talk to your client and ask if she’s made this part of Sally’s role. Keep it matter-of-fact and unemotional. For example: “I hoped you could clarify for me whether you’ve asked Sally to do XYZ with my work as part of her role. There have been some situations recently where (fill in specifics) and since it’s so different from how I’ve worked with you in the past — and to be transparent, is making some of my work harder — I wanted to check whether that’s happening with your blessing or whether there’s a misunderstanding with Sally.”

Ideally your client will be surprised and say it shouldn’t be happening and she’ll take care of it. But if she says this is part of Sally’s role now, then you should explain how it’s interfering with your work … and then potentially decide based on that discussion whether the client relationship is still one that works for you. But start by finding out if your client even knows it’s happening.

4. I don’t want to record a training for new hires

I was told to train two new hires using Teams. I am not comfortable doing this. I am also a new hire, just not quite as new. I am horrified to be recorded on a platform I’m not familiar with, or any platform frankly. I am very, very shy and the thought of doing this training is causing me a lot of distress. I would prefer to do the training in person, but they insist that it be recorded. Can I be fired for refusing? I do not think they will care that I am in terror about doing this task. They gave me very little warning about this and zero time to prepare.

They can insist on it and theoretically could fire you for refusing. They’re not likely to fire you for refusing, but you’d be risking it having a pretty big impact on how you’re perceived and what kind of opportunities you’re given there in the future. There’s a decent chance that your reputation would take a lasting hit, just because this has become a pretty normal expectation in such a wide variety of jobs. (I’m assuming they want it recorded so the trainees can refer back to it in the future, which isn’t unreasonable.)

You could try saying, “I freeze up when I’m recorded and think I could train them a lot more effectively in person.” (Obviously if your job involves needing to do training and/or presenting or being recorded, you shouldn’t say this, but I’m guessing from the rest of your letter that it doesn’t.) Your boss might be sympathetic to that, or might not be. If she’s not, at that point you really should try to get through it.

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{ 448 comments }

{ 448 comments… read them below }

  1. Nodramalama*

    I’m sure everyone will comment saying their experience is the opposite, but situation in LW1 is the reason I do not work from home regularly. Because I know I am less productive. I use the time to do light cleaning, put on loads of washing, and just generally get more distracted. Which I don’t really feel bad about – I know a lot of people who take advantage of a wfh day to household chores and errands. My issue is that I then often work longer on the other days to make up for my lack of productivity on my wfh day

    1. Raida*

      That’s completely reasonable.
      I have to make sure there’s no books or my gaming laptop lying around because I’ll get distracted when I’m WfH otherwise I can have morning tea and then realise it’s lunch O_o

    2. Brain the Brian*

      I wish I could honestly say that my productivity only suffers on WFH days. I know that’s what I hoped during the pandemic — that I would be more productive on in-office days once we returned to the office at least part-time. The reality is that I’m just not productive anywhere anymore. It’s like something “broke” in me mid-pandemic, and I just can’t motivate myself properly anymore, regardless of my location. Sigh.

      1. Roxy*

        Omg, me to! I was in a job which was so customer facing it was impossible to do from home, so apart from some training they sent out and phoning my colleagues ext I didn’t really do much. I’ve noticed my concentration has hit rock bottom since going back and even four years on (or technically 3 and a half since I went back) I struggle a lot.

        1. Brain the Brian*

          My job is very much not customer-facing and is in theory very easy to do from home. I just… lost the ability to care about it or stay focused at all during the workday. It’s totally a me problem; I just can’t seem to make myself get through it the way I used to.

        1. Polly*

          That’s what was in the back of my mind when I was reading the letter, too. I would have a very hard time being equally productive every day, and I really appreciate the flexibility to work at odd hours if I need to.

          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Agreed! If Claire’s getting her work done, what does it matter if she’s more productive on some days than others? I suppose if it were drastically different, like when she’s in office she cranks out 15 reports and when she WFH she does 2, that would be worth calling out, but like AAM said, perhaps she’s doing work on her WFH days that requires more thinking and less physical output than what she does in the office, or maybe part of why she needs WFH days is that she has standing medical appointments those days and is therefore OOO for a couple hours those days and figures it’s ok because she gets so much done when she is actually working that a couple of hours here and there don’t matter too much. (This last part is AAM fan-fiction but hey, it could be something else similar to that.)

            I know that I personally am not as productive on Fridays as on other days, nor am I as productive later in the day as I am earlier in the day. We all have our own work circadian rhythms and unless Claire’s performance is really an issue, I’d let this one go.

            1. Sloanicota*

              Even in your example, if the business need / employee goal is 17 reports per week, OP should probably let it go that they’re not being produced evenly. If the job need is 20, or 10 a day, or something, then yes we have a problem.

              2. Brain the Brian*

                Yes, it really depends how much of Claire’s workload needs to be turned around same-day.

            2. smirkette*

              This. I’d also think that saying something about it could have an adverse effect on Claire’s productivity and morale. If I were meeting or exceeding standards/requirements/deadlines while not having as much visible output one day a week and my manager raised this with me, personally I would start looking for a new job because the complaint is not about the quality of work or how I work impacting colleagues/clients/etc., but rather the manager’s feelings about what productivity should look like.

              1. commensally*

                Yep, the worst managers I’ve ever had are ones who are more interested in policing how I manage my time than whether I’m doing good work.

            3. Reluctant Mezzo*

              I agree. I’m the opposite–I’m still smashing my head with the coffee cup just to stay awake–and in afternoons I burn like the sun. But we all have our variances.

            4. commensally*

              Yeah, if I was getting my required work done to a reasonable level of productivity (and especially if I was struggling in non-work life in ways that the boss knew about!) and got asked why I was doing less on WFH days, my response would be to spread the work out differently so I’m doing more on WFH and less in-office, not to find more work I could do on WFH days.

        2. FormerLibrarian*

          This. If she’s getting the job done to standard, does it matter if she’s less productive at home?

        3. Sloanicota*

          I was puzzled by that part. If this is a real problem, it should be easy to point to things that aren’t getting done on time, or times she was unresponsive when at home, or some sort of clear bar of where it’s going wrong. If she’s meeting all her goals this seems like a non-problem. If you can’t point to anything, that’s a bit like the “my employee isn’t seated at her desk and working at 9AM sharp, which is my preference but has no real meaning in our role” type thing.

        4. That Crazy Cat Lady*

          Same. I never work from home, but I am more productive on some days than others. Sometimes I’m more tired, or I don’t feel well (I struggle with headaches), or I just finished a massive project and need a lighter day to take a load off. Or whatever. I kind of think that’s normal for humans who work.

          OP1, you said that your employee is great and meets all deadlines. I really don’t see why this is a problem.

        5. CommanderBanana*

          Right?

          My boss complains about our one (one!) remaining WFH day because to her, if your Teams light isn’t green you aren’t working. Completely ignoring that we have a zillion other platforms we use that aren’t Teams.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            My org keeps trying to fix the “zillion platforms” issue by introducing yet another platform, because surely everyone will spontaneously decide to switch to *this* one.

          2. Green*

            And also, the Teams availability indicator flickers between green and yellow randomly anyway.

            1. Inventory chap*

              Occasionally it will even turn red, attending meetings I’m not aware of and wasn’t invited to. Be a little wary of your technology, people–what is it doing behind your respective backs?!

        6. I'm just here for the cats!!*

          I don’t think the OP is off base to notice that output is different on Tuesdays than it is on other in office days. Especially if that means that on in office days she is overworking herself to meet those deadlines. I think the OP could ask what her task lists are like on Tuesdays and to look into her productivity. That is what a good manager would do

          1. Rex Libris*

            Taking someone to task over something that isn’t affecting getting their work or their deadlines, but just personally annoys the manager isn’t something a good manager would do, at least in my opinion. It’s a good way to cause an employee to resent you for no appreciable gain.

          2. MigraineMonth*

            If the employee were working a lot of overtime or seemed stressed or burnt out on Wednesdays, maybe? But even in that case, I’d expect the conversation to be around whether the *general* workload was too high, not whether she was producing enough on Tuesdays.

            Intervening with the minutia of when she does particular tasks and how she tracks which she does sounds like micromanager territory.

          3. Also-ADHD*

            I would feel very micromanaged if my boss wanted my task list unless I asked for help prioritizing or wasn’t completing everything or pushed back on taking something new on etc. A good manager doesn’t get that far into someone’s business without a reason. If LW has a reason (X not getting done Tue and hurting deadlines) having a discussion to solve performance is great, but micromanaging someone’s task list is weird.

          4. Jaydee*

            My experience is the opposite. I tend to overwork myself on WFH days and Fridays (I’m in-office but few others are) because I can’t get things done on in-office days when everyone is around and wants to talk and have meetings. I’d be kind of pissed if a boss who wanted us in-person to “collaborate” then said I was doing too much “collaborating” and not getting my work done on in-office days. Did I miss a deadline? Or did I just manage my schedule and which tasks I do on which days differently than you prefer?

        7. Rex Libris*

          This. “Claire is a good worker — she gets her work done, meets deadlines” and worrying about her productivity don’t go together.

          I’m in the office 40+ hours a week, and while I get everything done, I’m sure I’m probably less productive at 3pm on Friday than I am at 9am on Tuesday. If there isn’t a problem, don’t create one.

          1. Rebelx*

            Exactly. This sounds like an employee managing her own agenda and workload in a way that works for her and, it seems, meeting expectations of the job. If it were me and I’d shown for 10 years (!) that I’m a reliable employee, I’d be very put off by my manager seemingly micromanaging my time and talking to me about my WFH productivity if there’s no concrete work issue it’s causing.

        9. Cardoons are delicious*

          Strong agree.

          Some things OP might consider: If being able to work from home keeps Claire in the role, which she by the OPs description does well in overall, OP might want to consider that. OP also may be noticing what they perceive as Claire’s less productive hours more than OP notices the less productive hours of other staff, especially if other staff aren’t WFH. It’s less than clear OP needs to say anything. If Claire’s overall work was suffering, different story, but that doesn’t sound like what is happening. If that were the case, I’d think you’d start by raising that and specific issues with the work itself, and not attribute it to WFH without a pretty clear link.

          1. not nice, don't care*

            I see plenty of my colleagues being unproductive all day in person. Wandering around chatting etc. Being on site does not equal being productive at all.

            1. I Have RBF*

              This.

              In an open plan, I can’t concentrate because of all the socializing. They aren’t being productive, because only very few jobs involve recapping the latest sportsball event. Some people need the background noise/conversation to be effective. Others can’t stand it, and for us, remote work is a absolute blessing and sanity saver.

              1. NotAlwaysJustSocializing*

                I sympathize and loathe open office, but I’ve worked in a ton of jobs where this so-called socializing was an important albeit not directly demanded part of the job. I would make walking rounds to say hi to folks, chit chat, then find out more about what they’re working on 2-3x week. I can’t tell you the number of things I’ve discovered I wouldn’t have otherwise known that were directly pertinent to my work that way – it has been significant. And I have a relationship with folks so when I make a request or need a work favor I usually get what I need because they know who I am, and because I’ve sympathized with them about their workload or made a useful suggestion. But to many obsevers I’m just socializing. I am not. I am cultivating the relationships and information gathering method needed to be successful at my job.

                I’m sure there are plenty of people who are legitimately taking breaks and solely being social which is also necessary at times to function. But for information gathering roles it can be a very necessary tool to succeed.

      3. MaryMary*

        Yep! I know exactly what you mean and echo this 100%. I think A LOT of people are struggling with this exact thing right now. No idea how to fix it but you’re not alone!

      4. I edit everything*

        Sounds like acedia, which is very hard to define, but is something like a combination of being frozen by the weight of the future, lack of caring, lack of concern with your own direction, and can be connected to or a symptom of depression and/or anxiety. If you google it, you’ll find a ton of religious language around it, but it has Greek origins, and the Wikipedia article is decent.

      5. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

        @Brian the Brain, I sympathize. My executive functioning (in the mental sense, of, like, managing one’s own motivation, distraction, prioritization, planning and decision making; not the sense of having an executive job role) has suffered across the board in work regardless of location, and in my personal life. This is compounded by covering most of one and a half other other positions that we haven’t been able to keep filled since 2021 and training a new person on average every 8-10 months, and I haven’t been efficiently, consistently productive in years.

        I’m meeting my requirements and deadlines –work and personal — but largely because I can get away with extremely uneven productivity as long as it averages out.

        Like LW1’s employee, there are days when I don’t seem to get anything done.
        If I’m lucky, those “unproductive” days contain organization, prep and cleanup that enables “highly productive” other days. If I’m not lucky, I spend those unproductive days just trying to get traction on anything to little avail, being constantly interrupted by other people or tasks, or missing information or resources I need and having to track them down from contacts who prove unreachable, misinformed or indecisive. I used to mostly be able to roll over that kind of speedbump without losing my momentum. These days a speedbump feels like a roadblock, and I have to set that task aside and do something completely else to get unstuck, which can look very unproductive.

      6. Also Broken*

        “It’s like something “broke” in me mid-pandemic, and I just can’t motivate myself properly anymore, regardless of my location. Sigh.”

        So, while I am absolutely more productive at home, I feel this statement so hard. I just…cannot…anymore. At home, they maybe get 2/3 of what I used to be on my best day anywhere pre-pandemic. When I was in an office, maybe 1/4. I’m not depressed, I do not have anything underlying going on in my health, and I like my job for the most part. I just…can’t…anymore. I have no idea why. This pandemic just broke me in ways that I am still trying to figure out.

        1. Brain the Brian*

          In my case, it definitely is anxiety / depression / other mental health concerns — but the various strategies to treat those are either out of the question (medication, which I can’t take because it all conflicts with other medication that quite literally keeps me alive) or ineffective (therapy, yoga, etc.) for me. But Lordy, the thought of this for decades more is… unpleasant. :D

    3. Myrin*

      Oh yes, that’s the reason I’m very glad my job doesn’t lend itself at all to working from home. It’s not even that I’d do housework or something – I live alone so cleaning doesn’t take a lot of time (although it sure feels like it sometimes!) and I don’t need to do laundry hugely often – but rather that I’d be like “oh, let’s get up and get a snack!” or wonder what the weird screams my neighbours let out periodically mean or – most crucially – I’d suddenly have the energy to work on something I’ve been procrastinating on for some time but that work is the kind which I need to be in office to do so if I’m not in the office, I’d just sit there and look around like a goldfish. In my office, I can just get up and do the thing.

      1. Working Class Lady*

        I get it.
        I’m pretty sensitive to my surrounding environment, so I’m not sure I’d be able to focus well either unless I had a dedicated home office.

      2. Anon for this*

        Now I’M distracted by the thought of YOUR neighbours’ weird screams while trying to work from home.

        1. Myrin*

          It’s so strange. The best I can come up with is that it’s some sort of sex thing but I hear them walking around or talking normally immediately afterwards so I actually don’t really think it’s that, either.
          Of course my sister came to visit me the one time they were on vacation, and they both work nights so whenever I’ve had a friend over so far it’s been completely silent, so I haven’t yet gotten to pick anyone else’s brain about it.

          1. bamcheeks*

            One day you’re going to find out they’ve got a parrot or something and all will be clear.

            1. Seeking Second Childhood*

              When I was a kid, our neighbors got a cockatoo while I was at summer camp. That first set of nighttime sound screams was terrifying.

          2. Polly*

            Or a medical condition? I was about to march across the street and complain to neighbors I didn’t even know yet because there was random yelling and yelping from the young men hanging out on the front porch. I’m so glad I didn’t because, in a totally unrelated conversation, my downstairs neighbor told me the neighbors’ friend has a medical condition that causes the random yells.

            1. Myrin*

              Quite possible, although then they’d both have it. Which is certainly not impossible! But I’d assume less likely. I’m hoping for a random conversation to clear everything up just like the one you had.

          3. Generic Name*

            I could hear some weird grunting sounds and cries from a neighbor, and I figured it was sex sounds. Nope, he was beating her. :( :( :(

            1. Myrin*

              My goodness, I’m so sorry! To be honest, the thought has occurred to me but the other sounds don’t seem to match that – they’re often laughing and giggling and walking around when the strange sounds happen so it doesn’t really seem like it but since I can’t see through walls, I could be completely wrong in my interpretation of all of that. :(

              1. Generic Name*

                I know. I felt horrible. The place they were living in was barely habitable and she was pregnant. I’d see her leave daily in a work uniform and the guy just hung around all day. (I was a graduate student, so I kept odd hours). I hope they’ve both gotten what they deserve.

                1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

                  Off topic, but this conversation has made me incredibly thankful for my thick walls. I actually worked with an apartment search pro to find the quietest building in town! (Of course, she only showed complexes where she has an arrangement with the leasing company, but she did a good job). The most I ever get is dogs barking outside or a little bass from downstairs gaming/music! Just don’t ask about the rent. ;-)

          5. hiraeth*

            If you didn’t say they worked nights, I’d be worried this was me! I have a ridiculous startle reflex and a bunch of weird tics that are worse when I’m tired. So I spend a lot of evenings at home going WAAAAAH and HOOOOOOOO and BRRRRR. The family consider it free entertainment and take turns to sneak up behind me. I’ve never asked the neighbours if they can hear but I bet they can.

      3. Jen*

        If I do some housework or run errands that’s fine (depending on how small those are I don’t log them as work time tho, when has its own issues because then I have to make up time), but very often making myself do any work at home is like pulling teeth. I just sit there and tell myself I need to do the thing and don’t. I get jealous of people who can work from home, even people who aren’t more productive that way, I would love to do it more often.

      4. SheLooksFamiliar*

        I’ve worked remotely for the better part of the last 25 years – well before it came en vogue – and found it quite easy to be productive at home even when I lived with someone. Mostly because I had an office space with a door, but also because I was able to ‘train’ my now-ex that I wasn’t hanging out at home, I was working.

        I now live alone and have few distractions, not even housework. Sure, I’ll do a load of laundry or run a dust mop over the floor while I’m making a fresh pot of coffee, but I try to live by this rule: If I wouldn’t perform the task at the office during my work day, I won’t do it during my work day at home.

        1. Jenny*

          Agreed. I’ll throw in laundry, but that literally takes a minute. I’m not folding or putting it away during my work hours.

        2. Plain Jane*

          This is my theory as well: if I can do it in the time it would take me to get coffee or more water from the break room, then it’s fine. Laundry into the dryer? yes. Starting the instapot? yes. Spending an hour sorting my closet? maybe not.

        3. Orv*

          I found it easy for slightly different reasons — my wife also works from home and the fact that we were both supposed to be working in the same place at the same time helped remind both of us to stay on task. We’re both ADHD which might factor into this.

      5. Baroness Schraeder*

        My neighbours clap. On their patio right below my bedroom window. At 8am every morning for about a minute. Not like applause, just a rhythmic slow clap. I think it’s part of some kind of tai chi routine or something, but it’s a very weird thing to wake up to if I’m not already up.

    4. bamcheeks*

      Conversely, I’m more productive BECAUSE I can do that stuff. If I’ve got to be sat at a computer Looking Busy, I’ll end up scrolling and reading AAM which anaesthetises the busy part of my brain and doesn’t get me any closer to doing my actual work. Doing something physical like showering or sorting laundry or starting to chop veg for dinner calms the busy part and gets the planning and organising part of my brain going, so I can actually figure out what I need to SAY in that email rather than just running on the same track if “ugh, need to write that email.” Being able to switch tasks and move away from the computer really helps me!

      1. KarenInKansas*

        Exactly the same! My office workspace is a glass cubicle that feels like a fishbowl. I feel on display and don’t get up to stretch or jog in place, which also help me engage. I also can’t plan my days in the office because I don’t know if it’s going to be loud or busy. But at home I am free to research, think deep and unbroken thoughts, shift my focus when I am ready, and write effectively.

      2. Analyst*

        Exactly! No one, or at least very few people, is working non-stop through a work day in the office either. You get up and end up talking to someone on the way to the bathroom, you read a blog. WFH is just different non-work things, and the great bit is now those non-work things can be say, laundry. So now I’ve got that done and have more free time and am better rested for my life, including work.

        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          Yes, this! I actually have had only one in-person office job in my post-school life and it was really not great for me. I’d been WFH for 8 years (before it was cool) and was super productive in that job and had a really good work/life balance. Then I switched to a job that really wanted people to work in the office as much as possible. It was a lovely place but they had a real but-in-seats mentality that I wish I’d pushed back on, as my job was tech-oriented and could really be done from anywhere; sometimes I’d be in the office all day and wouldn’t actually talk to a single coworker, not for lack of trying but because they were all busy with their own projects. I completed a big project for them that resulted in my job being a whole lot easier, which really translates to “I barely had any actual work anymore” and because I was in the office, I was losing my mind from boredom. I took walks all the time and got bored with the city we were in (a city that is a very nice city with a prestigious university and lots of tourists) because I walked around it so frequently. I rarely wanted to do anything outside of work that required me to be away from home, because I like being home with my kitties, but I also like to travel and do outdoor activities so it was detrimental to my mental health to never want to leave home.

          I am one of the very small minority who was actually somewhat relieved when the pandemic hit because it meant that I was no longer forced to sit in an office all day with nothing to do. (I know everything was awful and I absolutely am not saying the pandemic was a good thing because it wasn’t, but it helped me realize what I need out of a job so that was good for me, at least.) I was then able to get home chores done during the work day or during the time when I would be commuting, and I didn’t have to figure out what work appropriate clothing to wear everyday. I was able to do the outdoor activities I loved and not feel like I was cheating my poor kitties out of seeing me, because they saw me every day at work now.

          I’m now on my second job that is 100% remote since I left that one, and I don’t regret any of it. I don’t really do home chores during the work day except if I’m waiting for my lunch to heat up in the microwave or something like that, but I sometimes make an exception for cleaning the bathroom. My logic is that if I were in an office, my job would be paying someone to clean the bathroom and since my office is my home, they are paying me to clean the office bathroom. But since it doesn’t take very long to clean anyway, I could also just say that I’m cleaning it on my coffee break.

      3. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Same here. When I was working from home, I didn’t feel the need to perform busyness, and doing something with my hands has the exact same zen focusing effect on me. In an office, getting up and pacing/walking helps but I learned years ago that it gets me weird looks, too. There was one manager at my last job who had the guts to say “I’m going for a walk, I’ll be back in 15 minutes” when she had something to think through, and I wish I’d had her confidence.

      4. hiraeth*

        Same here. I have a bunch of hacks that will get my brain to do what I need, whether that’s occupying the bored part with an audio book I’ve heard before so that I can point the rest of myself at six hours of data entry, or whether that’s doing a lap of the garden and coming back with a sudden solution to a problem I’ve been stuck on all day. At work, I sit at my desk looking very professional, but I have a few productive hours in the morning and then the rest of the day is spent repeatedly forcing myself back on-task. I get WAY more done when I work from home.

    5. Irish Teacher.*

      I think this is very person specific. And honestly, office and job specific too. Some are more productive from home, some are less, some are the same.

      To be honest, that was my big concern about online learning during the lockdown. Some kids, especially those with larger homes, their own bedrooms, no learning difficulties, etc, were way more productive, others far less so the achievement gap widened.

      Claire may be one of those who is less productive from home whether because of her personality – some people find structure helpful, others find it restrictive – or because of her circumstances. In which case, it is reasonable for her manager to address it. Work from home should be a flexible way to allow everybody to work in the way they are most productive. If it doesn’t work for Claire, maybe something needs to change.

      1. Bast*

        It doesn’t really sound like it isn’t working though, because there was nothing specific that is actionable in the letter. “Claire doesn’t answer emails all day” “Claire disappears for long stretches of time and takes 3 hour lunch breaks” “Our target is 10 reports a day and Claire is only doing 5 from home.” All of those are things you can point to and say, “Claire, your lunch break needs to be capped at one hour. Yesterday you were clocked out from 12 to 3 for lunch, which is unacceptable” or “Claire, our baseline number of reports per day is 10, and we notice you only average 5 when working from home.” LW doesn’t say any of that though, and in fact, notes that Claire is a good employee with good productivity overall. If LW goes to sit down with Claire, Claire is no doubt going to ask how she can improve, and LW is not going to have anything to say except something along the lines of, “do better while you’re working from home” which isn’t really helpful.

    6. geek5508*

      Same here! I had to move my WFH station away from my hobby bench in the basement – too distracting!

    7. Lacey*

      You gotta know yourself.

      I know I am way more productive working from home. It’s not even close.

      But a former coworker of mine, only feels productive doing certain tasks from home. She decides whether she’ll be in the office or not based on the type of work she has to do.

      And for some people, yeah, they need to be in the office.
      I think the self-awareness is great.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Yup, this is me. I’m more productive at home because I’m not hearing other conversations (open plan office), people aren’t interrupting me while I do something that requires a lot of concentration (they’ll email which I can then respond to when I’m able), and I have the ability to step away when I need a quick break to do something more routine without feeling like someone is going to think I’m slacking (not that anyone would, but it’s always a fear of mine).

        There is no one right answer, it’s really a matter of what works for the job and the employee.

        1. Sloanicota*

          Yes. I would no doubt be much more productive in the office – if I had a quiet, semi-private space to concentrate. Since my sector/geography has basically done away with that entirely in favor of tight-packed cube farms, I feel less guilty that my efforts from home are a bit subpar because they’re still better than when I was working in a place like that, distracted all day like Harrison Bergeron.

        2. KitKat*

          Yes, this is me exactly.

          When I first started working from home a couple of days a week, I wondered why it left me EXHAUSTED. It’s because in office there are constant interruptions and distractions breaking my focus, so I only get into deep focus work mode if I really intentionally set myself up for it (noise blocking headphones, focus music, away message, etc.) At home I can get into deep focus more often and for longer unbroken stretches — this is great but it can also completely burn out my brain! At the time it seemed to work out that a day in the office was equivalent to about 5 hours at home in terms of total productivity.

          I’m now 100% WFH. My role is different now and involves a lot more meetings so I don’t know how it shakes out, but I’m certainly not less productive even on laundry day.

          1. TeaMonk*

            There’s distractions, there’s coworkers’ emotions to manage, your movement breaks can only be walking, not yoga or dance breaks

        3. Turquoisecow*

          My current job the previous grand boss, who set up the role, said he wanted me to be in the office as little as possible because if I was in the office people would be asking me questions or trying to get me to help with other things unrelated to my role, and thus the job they wanted me to be working on would suffer. This actually happened in past situations where I was asked to work on a special project but then constantly taken off that project because my previous role (or even unrelated roles that I had never filled but knew how to do) would ask for help because they were busy. If I wasn’t right there sitting with them, maybe they would have managed their own but seeing me they thought “oh it’s soooooo much work let’s just get her to help!”

          1. Festively Dressed Earl*

            So much this! I worked at a state government office, and only managers or trainers were allowed to answer questions for the new hires, but we were also understaffed so the managers and trainers weren’t always accessible. Enter grown people attempting to ninja across an open-plan office to the few of us who were unofficial resources. And then we got in trouble for helping them. And then add the ones who felt the need to smack the back of my chair in greeting while I was trying to focus. And the people who knew who worked this or that special project in the past and thus used us as workarounds once we were back in our normal roles. Some of that still happened when I worked from home, but it was 90% less like an episode of Spy vs. Spy.

          2. Baroness Schraeder*

            Yes! I have this problem too. Sooner or later everyone at my work discovers I used to be a web/graphic designer in a past life and the moment I set foot in the office people start asking me for help with laying out presentations or reports. It’s completely unrelated to my current role, and if I’m not there they somehow manage to sort out their own issues without me. Now I aim to only go into the office if I DON’T have much work to do!

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Self-awareness *and* self-determination. The ability to choose to go into the office or not based on the work is pretty amazing.

    8. ReallyBadPerson*

      Same, Nodramalama. When I had my first child, my boss let me WFH two days each week. I could not hack it, even though I had a nanny. I kept getting distracted. I needed to be in the office to be productive.

    9. WillowSunstar*

      I am permanent WFH. Have gotten very strict with myself about only doing chores on my 15-minute breaks, or my lunch break. Some chores get skipped until after quitting time. But also live alone, so have only myself nagging me to do the chores.

    10. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Good for you for realizing this. I know when I had to work from home I was more easily distracted. Part of that was it was the pandemic and I didn’t have a proper area to work, and that because of my role there was not as much work for me to do. I did a lot of professional development.

      I’m not sure if I would be able to work from home if I had a designated space. Theres always going to be something to distract you.

    11. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      I make up for my wfh distractibility – which some days is extremely high – by logging in and doing some work tasks during evenings and weekends. Sometimes I even get up in the middle of the night to catch up on admin stuff, if my insomnia decides to crop up. My employer pays me for results, not for being at my desk between certain times of day. (Also, when I worked in in-office-only roles, I was just as distractible, and overall less productive because I didn’t have the option of working during non standard hours. So there’s that.)

      LW1, if Claire is getting her work done and the results are there, I wouldn’t even bring it up. She’s going to (rightly) feel micromanaged. Unless this is causing a work problem for you or the organization at large, leave it alone.

      1. Cei*

        I used to do this – make up for my wfh distractibility by working on evenings or week-ends, etc – but the trade off was absolutely not worth it to me; I basically had no real free anymore, because I always could be or should be catching up on work.

    12. TechWorker*

      I am less productive at home for sure, and sometimes come in on our wfh days because of that.. I also am actually managing my life and job now though, so OVERALL my productivity is ‘better’ because it is actually sustainable. I get great results and great performance reviews, I am not going to lose sleep over sometimes having a slow Monday afternoon.

    13. Anonymosity*

      For me, it isn’t working from home; my work oscillates from busy to incredibly slow, and unfortunately, sometimes the incredibly slow part happens on a WFH day. Since I’m hourly, I can’t leave early without using PTO, but it’s not unheard of for me to empty the dishwasher or fold some laundry when I have a slack moment. I’m sure I’m not alone in that.

      My colleagues and I try to help each other out, so I will ask if they need any assistance. Fortunately the office has no plans to insist that everyone return to the office. We have too many remote employees.

      1. Decima Dewey*

        I don’t work from home, and my workload goes from feast to famine. Nobody comes into the branch one day. On another day we get a bunch of eager patrons who need help with a project.

        And on some days your to do list for that day gets pushed aside. Yes, you wanted to work on project Z, but there’s a call and we have to clear out a large closet so that the moldy carpet can be replaced. Or TPTB want a long survey answered by close of business. Or someone goes home sick and who does what changes for the day.

    14. FunkyMunky*

      I love that about WFH, I get a ton done and no longer need to spend my weekends doing chores or running to appointments. I work past 5pm on most days and easily catch up on work the same evening if needed. If it’s a quite day then it’s a win/win. Seems strange to me that’s an issue to others…?

  2. Hiya*

    #1 is interesting to me because, as a manager, I don’t have an expectation that my staff have the same level of productivity every day. Some days will be more productive than others. If deadlines are met, I don’t really care if you give $110% on Mondays, 70% on Tuesdays, 85% Wednesdays. Heck, even my productivity fluctuates. And, to be clear, I understand that the pattern of it being on her wfh day is noteworthy, but I’m not sure it changes my perspective on it. Even if I had a sense of why my staff was more productive on some days than others, the variance in productivity itself doesn’t concern me unless there are other performance issues.

    I know letter writer says they are looking for more from their employee. If true, why not start there? Why not tell them you need to see more of X? But consider whether it would bother you if she did more of X on Monday or Wednesday, rather than Tuesday – and, if so, why that is? How much is wfh bias playing a role here?

    1. Raida*

      I concur.

      WfH can be invaluable to having a happier and smoother running household in getting laundry done, deliveries, cooking, errands, etc. Free time feels even better when there’s no chores or stress of doing everything else Saturday morning while the shops are open – with kids!
      I do longer days WfH, starting at 6am instead of 8am. I take two breaks during the day, and rarely do laundry or chores on the weekend. It’s awesome.

      If a manager has a goal of xxx and staff are achieving xxx, and they haven’t defined they want xxxy, nor have they defined the tangible benefits staff could expect from increasing productivity to provide xxxy…. It’s a manager silently being judgy and not offering compensation. Not a productivity issue but an unclear expectations issue.

      1. Nodramalama*

        I’m a bit confused. The argument that wfh is great because it leaves more free time on a weekend, might be great for an employee but I’m not entirely sure why that’s convincing to a workplace?

        1. Esme*

          If the employee is able to be more efficient with household work because they can move it forward during scheduled breaks because they are at both “job sites” at once, then the employer has a more satisfied, rejuvenated employee, but has not lost anything in productivity.

        2. Mighty K*

          Because you can use the time you would have been commuting. The post you’re relying to says they start 2 hours earlier to allow longer breaks. The same time is spent working, it’s just split in a way that’s more beneficial for house chores too.

        3. Ellis Bell*

          I’ve definitely seen situations where an employee suddenly goes from terrible to great because they reclaimed their weekends/were released from family caregiving/solved their insomnia etc. I’ve also seen the reverse, where a good employee becomes terrible because their spare time disappeared. It’s not always the case that extra weekend time will translate into a benefit to the business; sometimes it simply gives a spoon-rich person extra spoons they don’t desperately need. But it can’t hurt, and sometimes makes a big difference.

        4. Also-ADHD*

          Happier employees with better well being are more productive overall. The manager should ask for the productivity desired overall but unless timing matters to the work, I’m not sure why it is a problem if the employee hits it harder in office and takes it easier at home (or does different levels on different days in general). But I very intentionally work very hard and focus intensely some days personally and have lighter days other days and if I were hybrid (I’m full wfh) I would definitely leave my wfh days lighter if I could, mainly because I go crazy with down time in office and get very very bored (adhd). But working at that intense pace also drains me and burns me out, so the ebb and flow does mean better overall productivity (and luckily I’m full wfh though on my team, frankly, I and plenty of others give a lighter effort on Fridays in a noticeable way unless there’s a crunch/crisis). I think finding good ways to measure productivity is key but I’d only look at it daily if daily matters for team deadlines and the kind of work, which usually means the work is reactive and based on coverage or the deadlines are very quick and not being met. If I get more than people can imagine done Monday, why don’t I deserve easy Fridays? Is there a corporate benefit to evenness or would you rather have more productivity over all and a worker who isn’t experiencing burnout, stays, is happy etc.

          That’s not to say LW can’t ask for more, but just to answer where benefits to business might lie for focusing on overall productivity, with flexibility and wellbeing, rather than trying to wring people dry.

        5. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

          It’s the commute time. When I WFH, I spend the same amount of time working as I do when I work from the office, but get the commute time back to get ahead on household stuff. I’m also more productive because FOR ME PERSONALLY there are fewer distractions and a better working environment at home where I have a private place set up how I want it than in the hot-desking open-plan office.

          1. I Have RBF*

            This. Commute time and open plan distractions.

            When we started WFH full time with Covid, I felt like I’d had a weight lifted from me. I commuted over two hours a day, and had to fill my tank every week. I worked in an open plan, and it was often hard to concentrate. I’ve been 100% remote ever since, and with a spouse with cancer, it is the best thing for me, because it lets me be with them more of the time.

            1. Clisby*

              I felt the same way when I started working for home, back in the 1990s. When I was in-office, I had had about a 10-minute commute, and a private office with a door I could shut, and I still could get more done from home than I could on-site, because I wasn’t inundated with the constant interruptions that happened in the office.

              In my case, my employer offered me a 100% remote position, because (a) I had moved 600 miles away and (b) the number of people who knew their legacy systems and knew how to program for an IBM mainframe apparently were thin on the ground. I was amazed at how much better I could concentrate at home. I did have a dedicated work space – my husband also was a computer programmer and we would not have considered renting or buying a place where we couldn’t have a home office.

        6. Rex Libris*

          Because relatively happy employees that are well rested and don’t feel like their job is their life are more productive and cause fewer problems.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            It’s also a powerful motivator to stay at the current employer rather than seek another job. “Yeah, I could get 10% more working at Competitor, but nowhere else can match this work-life balance!”

        7. RussianInTexas*

          My laundry: 2 minutes to put into the washer. One minute to move to the dryer. 10 minutes to sort after done.
          I do one load of my laundry per week, all together have zero ironing, and one l load of sheets and towels. it really takes very little time.

          1. Clisby*

            I know! My husband and I do 1 or 2 loads a week, but even when our kids were at home, laundry took practically no time. I mean, it took time to finish, but I didn’t have to stand there micromanaging the machines.

            I think a bunch of people must be a lot more picky about laundry. I don’t sort laundry before washing – I just dump it in the washer; when it’s done, I move it to the dryer. (The one exception would be if for some reason I want to wash something with bleach, I’ll wash it with other light-colored things, but that doesn’t happen very often.)

            When it’s dry, I or my husband put it back in the laundry basket, carry it upstairs, and dump it on our bed. When we go up to bed, we have an incentive to put it away.

            No ironing is ever involved. I own an iron, and it’s probably been 5 years since I used it.

            I worked remotely for 17-18 years before retiring, and laundry was barely a blip of my time.

            1. EngineeringFun*

              I live alone and do 3 loads a week. You need to wash your sheets and towels more! Each load takes 40 mins that you have to be around to move to the other location. It’s way easier to be working and setting a timer to change it out. Not ironing collared shirts? Do you just take your collared shirts to the dry cleaner? That’s something you need to pick up too?

        8. Beth*

          The perk for the employer is that you have happier, better rested employees, and that some employees can focus better when not interrupted by office chatter and noise, and that you don’t need to maintain as much office space if a lot of your employees work from home.

          The perk for the employee is that you no longer have a commute (saving gas money, car wear-and-tear, and probably several hours a week), and that you can use your breaks (which we all take regardless of where we’re working) to do quick household tasks like switching the laundry, and that for many people it’s a quieter and more comfortable space than the office.

          WFH isn’t for everyone. Some people don’t have focus-friendly home environments, some prefer in-office workspace, etc. But there are absolutely perks for both employers and employees.

      2. gandalf the nude*

        Having a load of laundry running while you work is one thing. Having extra time because you don’t have to commute is fine. But not actually working a full day because you’re doing housework instead of working is not something most companies are likely to sign off on, and is exactly the mindset that has led to companies being skeptical of WFH.

        1. Stoli*

          Exactly. Laundry, cooking, errands, doesn’t sound like much work is being done. Not sure this is a flex.

          1. KateM*

            How much time do you think laundry and cooking takes? What’s the difference between walking to bathroom to pee, or walking to a bathroom that’s possibly nearer to start laundry?

            1. Myrin*

              This is incredibly astounding to me. I mean, I fully agree regarding throwing some laundry in the machine but cooking? Actual cooking with chopping, boiling, frying, etc.? I cook all my meals for the week on weekends and it definitely takes me several hours, and I’m a practiced and accomplished cook.

              I guess it doesn’t matter for the commenter this whole thread is a reply to because she says her workday is two hours longer on WFH days anyway, and it certainly doesn’t matter for the OP, whose letter doesn’t mention chores at all, but this is a view (that cooking doesn’t take time) I have not yet encountered before!

              1. bamcheeks*

                I wouldn’t cook a whole meal, but I can do something like chop an onion, carrot, garlic and pepper in under ten minutes, start them softening, then switch off and leave them for a couple of hours in a warm pan and that puts me about half an hour ahead at dinner time because the onions are already cooked!

              2. Ellis Bell*

                It really depends on the cooking though surely. Yes there are meals that you could spend hours on, but most people don’t. You can cook a serious variety of things in 15 minutes; Jamie Oliver did an entire TV series on that premise. I have meals I can whip up in 5 to ten minutes. Even if this employee is spending half an hour on a day’s meal that’s probably easily covered by her lunch hour. I take your point that this could be “batch cook and freeze” days with multi steps for each of many different dishes before she moves on to the baking component, but I wouldn’t describe that sort of activity as merely “cooking”. That’s like a reorganization of the pantry level of household work.

              3. Seeking Second Childhood*

                I presumed it was like me – I don’t trust my home’s aging electric well enough to run a slow cooker while no one’s home.

              4. doreen*

                That really depends a lot on what you are cooking and for how many people – there are recipes that take 15 or 20 minutes of active time and then 2-4 hours of cooking time and there are food that only take 15 or 20 minutes altogether. I can’t think of anything we ever make for dinner that requires more than maybe an hour of attention and most require much less – a roast beef might take 4 hours from taking it out of the refrigerator to serving it but only 10 minutes to season it before putting it in the oven and pan fried chicken cutlets for 2 might only take 15 minutes total/

                1. KateM*

                  Yep. Chop stuff, put in a pot, leave it stewing for an hour, then come back for your lunch. Obviously one wouldn’t do time-intensive preparation duringa workday.

              5. Analyst*

                It’s the difference between having a frozen tv dinner for lunch and making an omelet. Or just…making my salad fresh. Being able to have a freshly cooked (but easy) lunch is great. Having more time in the morning to throw something in the crockpot for dinner is too (taking 20-30 minutes for that replaces my commute and I’m still starting at the same time).

              6. Deborah Vance, Vance Refrigeration*

                I’m not sure which commenter mentioned cooking when working from home, but I use my lunch hour for it, something that is obviously impossible in an office. So I get to eat a freshly-cooked meal when WFH and it doesn’t affect my work at all, but again, I use my lunch time. Overall downtime when WFH is used for faster chores, such as feeding the dogs or loading up the dishwasher, thing like that.

              1. Nah*

                I’m sorry, but unless you’re standing at the washing machine watching the clothes go round, or I suppose if you’re using a washing board, laundry should take what, five minutes to throw in the machine and toss in the soap? Then however many hours later when you have a lull you spend two minutes transferring them to the dryer, and another bathroom break to toss them in a basket. So yeah, I suppose *technically* you could say it takes hours, but it’s really only about ten minutes of active work time over the course of a whole day.

                2. Seashell*

                  That’s pretty much my version of laundry (and I don’t do it during the workday unless it’s urgent), but hanging things rather than using the dryer and/or folding and putting away everything is a lot more time consuming and not something I could get away with doing while working at home.

                  Similarly, I could dump a few ingredients in a slow cooker during a break, but cooking beef Wellington would not be a thing for doing during the workday.

                3. Seeking Second Childhood*

                  Ah. Some of us buy clothes that require little attention and no ironing.

                  It allows my family to be barbarians* who throw everything in together on the same load. And let it sit in the drier until it’s convenient for us to fold.

                  (*Or so my mother-in-law said. She seemed surprised I didn’t change my behavior afterwards. I note that her son didn’t do laundry. Possibly because she taught him the easy way was inadequate? Personally I’m all about the cheat codes for chores.)

                4. KateM*

                  Five minutes? It takes me half a minute to dump one of presorted contained of laundry (yeah my family is trained) into the machine, measure out a spoonful of powder and press a button. And then after two hours (which I do not spend standing next to the washing machine), pull the load out and put into dryer, bam another half a minute gone.

                5. ecnaseener*

                  Nodramalama, how does “sorting, washing, drying, sorting again” take even one hour total?! Each of those individually takes like 5 minutes. Maybe you meant to include folding in there, I’d add maybe 10 minutes for folding.

                6. Allonge*

                  Just as with cooking, it depends. I am a one-person household, laundry (as in washing and line-drying) fits easily in the working day. Ironing, not.

                  But with kids or sevearl adults, especially who cannot sort / need picking up after? Laundry covers a lot of things.

                  Let me put it this way: if laundry is five minutes, you don’t regain your weekend by doing laundry on a working day.

                7. KateM*

                  Allonge: you *may* regain your weekend because, while your actual actions of doing laundry take 5 minutes at a time, there is time between when you are not required to do anything. My washing machine takes 2 hours and drying machine about the same. Obviously I am not going to start washing when wet clothes would stay in machine for hours – so, I couldn’t start washing on a Saturday morning and then go to a day trip, or I wouldn’t start washing on a Monday morning and then go to work for next ten hours (including commute). But when working from home, I could start washing first load at 8:00, second at 10:15 (let’s presume it will take me some time to notice it is done), third at 12:30, fourth at 14:45, and so have four loads of laundry done by the end of the day with about 3x 5 minutes taken from working.

                8. Stardust*

                  @ecnaseener, i must be incredibly slow when it comes to household tasks, then, because folding a normal-sized load takes me half an hour alone. I’ve long known that i’m quite meticulous when it comes to such things but i didn’t know there are people for whom folding laundry–a whole basket full, that is, i don’t mean stuff like underwear or socks–is an activity which only lasts 10 minutes.
                  But apart from that we don’t have dryers where i’m from and hanging clothes up to dry, while not as time-consuming as folding, still definitely takes more than 5 minutes.

                9. Allonge*

                  KateM
                  There is no universal definition of what laundry is.

                  Laundry is not long if all you count as laundry is ‘put it into machine A, take it out, put it into machine B, take it out’. This we can do on any WFH day as it will not have any noticable impact.

                  It’s long when you need to go through a house to gather the things to launder in the first place, you notice a hundred other things in the meanwhile that need sorting, do the machine part and distribute the laundered clothes back to five-ten different places. Can you see that this latter version would have an impact on someone’s productivity?

              2. ThatGirl*

                A load of laundry takes me 2 minutes to toss in the machine and start, 2 minutes to transfer to the dryer, and maybe 5-10 minutes max to fold. With plenty of time in between.

                For cooking, I can do things like toss a chicken breast in to poach (for later shredding) or let a pot of soup simmer or cook some rice without a lot of effort. I’m not making 3-course French meals here.

            3. bamcheeks*

              I had a remote job in 2013, before it was widespread, and my contract told me that I should hang out washing, take the dog for a walk etc during working hours to replace the physical movement you’d get in an on-site job going to other desks or meetings!

            4. Allonge*

              So – laundry is an example of what can be easily done during the work day indeed. As long as it’s put things in washing machine, hang them/put them in dryer, fold them. That’s indeed less than a lot of walking around you do in the office.

              The issue is more that when it’s laundry, meaning find the clothes to launder in two-seven messy rooms, clean up half the mess in the meanwhile, sort, get fabric softener from store/storage, fold three loads you did in the last few days and so on. And some cooking. And some more cleaning. Then, sure, we regain some of the weekend but this will have an impact on anyone’s productivity.

              1. Goldie*

                Literally the reason I can’t WFH is because obsessively do laundry and with teens who use a three towel a day each it ends up taking a lot of time with folding and putting away. Then I start to feel overwhelmed. I get distracted by other home tasks.

                Then teens get home and want snacks snd meals. I prefer to keep work at the office.

                I used to be able to WFH but now I hate it.

                1. KateM*

                  Ah. My laundry sorting method, sice I have had kids enough to do “join the pairs of the same” and “which item belongs to whom” kind of exercises, has been to chuck laundry on our wide bed, fold the big items and tell kids to sort the rest. Saves money on all these activity books.

                2. Seashell*

                  I’d work towards getting those teens doing their own laundry and making their own snacks. If my kids used 3 towels in a week, I’d tell them they’re using too much. No fresh towel needed every day.

                  I do get bugged about what’s for dinner, but I will sometimes tell my (teen/young adult) kids, “Don’t bother me until 5pm unless the house is on fire or someone is bleeding.”

          2. Festively Dressed Earl*

            It depends on the person. If I’m stuck on a problem, I’ll fold a load of laundry or start mise en place for dinner while I think through it; it helps me focus better than sitting at a screen. Some people have written to AAM in the past asking about doing needlework or knitting in the office for the same reasons. But for a lot of people, little chores have the opposite effect and they’d be less productive.

          3. LJ*

            Now I’m curious about the three towels a day. Are they showering three times a day? And only using a towel once before washing again?

            1. Dahlia*

              Hair, body, and face probably. If you have acne it’s often recommended to use a separate, fresh towel when you wash your face.

    2. Awkwardness*

      #1 is interesting to me because, as a manager, I don’t have an expectation that my staff have the same level of productivity every day.

      That was my thought too. I rarely do the same type of work on two different days and a would have a serious problem is my boss tried to quantify my work on a daily basis.

      1. ChurchOfDietCoke*

        #1 is interesting to me because, as a manager, I don’t have an expectation that my staff have the same level of productivity every day.

        And I ABSOLUTELY save the kinds of quiet, reflective, deep work for when I’m WFH. I absolutely cannot, for example, design a training course from scratch in our loud, open plan office (and I certainly can’t record the voiceover on an e-learning course or focus on correcting the alt-text on images while people are yapping on about their weekend or where they’re going to have lunch from 9.30am or how cuuuuuuuuute the baby is that has just been brought into the room…)

        Just because you cannot SEE that someone is being productive does not mean they’re not, unless you have a ticklist of ‘things to do / people to call’ that is the same every day.

        1. Le le lemon*

          This is my experience too. My shared office is noisy; I’m easily interrupted for questions or distracted by other colleagues’ conversations. It’s also the perfect place to do all the action items (phone call/quick meeting and go go go).
          WFH days – perfect for strategic planning, doing outlines/creating modules, thinking, analyzing, doing projects. If I was in office 5 days/week, I would leave my desk and find a quiet space to do this (away from emails/teams!)
          My boss knew this, and it was also in my interest to send dot points of what I worked on that day.

          (I was also really good at cooking more than 1 meal in my lunch break (my choice of 30/60 min), and doing washing before work)

        2. londonedit*

          Yep, absolutely. Being an editor I often have things like proof corrections to collate, or a copy-edit to go through, and I am SO much better at doing those when I’m at home, because it’s quiet and I have a calm environment in which to think properly about what I’m doing. So I save those jobs for my WFH days, and I save all the little admin things for my office days, because when I’m in the office my boss, who sits opposite me, will be asking questions, or someone will come over for a chat, or other people will be taking phone calls, and I find it more difficult to concentrate.

          I also do the odd load of washing or bit of meal prep while I’m WFH, and I sometimes pop down the road to pick up a prescription or something. I don’t work in the sort of environment where anyone minds about that (my boss often does similar things during the work day) and as long as my books are all running on time, it’s really up to me to manage my workload. So I really don’t see an issue with nipping out for 10 minutes to go to the post office – it’s no different from making a cup of tea in the office and having a chat in the kitchen while doing so. I’m not expected to be chained to my computer 9-5 whether I’m in the office or WFH.

        3. CorporateDrone*

          A recent Happiness Lab episode (Dr Laurie Santos) Why Don’t We Have a 15-hour Work Week? was super interesting and applies very much here – in fact I think the OP should listen to the episode! Essentially the guest (Cal Newport) was explaining that as work shifted away from the production of things to the production of knowledge, we didn’t really adapt our ideas about how best to measure productivity. Eg if you are a factory worker and the output of your work is llama halters, your productivity is fairly straightforwardly measured by the number of halters you output. But modern ‘knowledge work’ lacks clear productivity metrics compared to physical labor. Often what we measure is actually a proxy for our actual outputs (hours spent in office) and we’ve ended up incentivizing pseudo-productivity metrics like how many hours we work or visible metrics of work that might not be so valuable. Most knowledge workers need time to think in order to truly make progress, but the trouble is that the thinking time looks like “wasted time”. You might have no visible output after doing some kinds of work, but that doesn’t mean it is not valuable nor that it doesn’t directly and significantly impact the rest of the work done.

          I agree with those who are saying that OP should look at the overall productivity of the employee rather than day by day. Is it an issue? The employee might not actually be able to sustain an even level of productivity at the level of the higher productivity days without burning out. OP should look at the actual problems (eg specific reports not getting done, not getting replies as quickly on WFH days) whatever they are and make sure they ARE problems. Then bring those up. I’m not convinced from OP’s description that there is a problem at all aside from outdated ideas about measuring work here though!

          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Ah, knowledge work, I love that term! And it’s especially true that sometimes you need to step away from your work to figure something out. At my last job often someone would ask me a question I didn’t know the answer to and I told them I’d get back to them as soon as I figured it out. On more than a few instances, that answer came to me just as I was waking up the next morning. It was so weird. And no, I wasn’t dreaming about work or anything and I hadn’t been ruminating on the question before going to bed either. Brains are so weird.

            1. I Have RBF*

              I do a lot of troubleshooting and problem solving, plus light software development. I have learned that sometimes I literally need to sleep on a problem. This pushes the processing of the matter into my hindbrain which is more creative. Sometimes, when I have been beating my head on a problem too much, I will go and take a horizontal lunch (a nap.) I then come back and the problem is solvable.

          2. MigraineMonth*

            Sometimes the metrics they pick are even worse than butts-in-seats and are actively harmful. In computer programming it used to be common to use “lines of code written” as a proxy for productivity.

            It is widely known that in software development that the worst code is a ton of code copy-pasted from elsewhere, and really well-written code *reduces* the total number of lines of code in a program.

      2. Cat Tree*

        Yeah, I agree. My workplace is now even experimenting with standardized work cycles. It’s basically a standard weekly flow, with time semi-blocked for certain things that aren’t meetings. Of course “run the business” has to get done so it’s not meant to be rigid if something more important/urgent comes up.

        But I realized I was already kinda doing this. I save my deep focus stuff for WFH, when possible. Now the whole department is trying this thing where we all have a deep focus hour at the same time each day and we try to avoid scheduling meetings at that time. It’s definitely a different rhythm for me and I’m getting used to it. But management recognizes that there are different types of work and weekly rhythm to it.

        1. If you recognize the policy I probably work for them*

          I am impressed that your company respects that time.

          My corporation designated a certain day/month for training. Word came down from on high: No meetings except personal development, no work on ongoing projects.

          But I have had few development days where I actually got to do as Csuite says they want. And I have seen people called out for being late on tasks assigned across dev day where it was clear the task required the full # of days to complete.

          Yes I’ve gone anonymous because it’s so specific, and I don’t know if it’s an industry thing.

          1. Le le lemon*

            Gives your company the best of both worlds: able to brag about the 1 PD day per month (especially when hiring), yet knows people will also work free overtime to ensure deadlines are made (as you’ve insinuated no mercy if you’re late).

    3. Alz*

      Yup, I came to say the same thing (but I think you said it better). Alison often asks why it matters for things like arriving on time- if the job requires 5 days of productive then I agree that the script Alison gave is the right one but I also think it is worth reflecting why it matters. If she is producing at 110% on all the other days and deadlines are weekly/monthly/long term then does it matter? The same way that someone who needs to answer phones MUST be in the office by 9am but a report writer can get in at 9:10, this is one of those things where I think the context of the job matters. Also, there is a big difference between “not productive” and “dropping the ball”- if she isn’t getting back to clients or something like that in a timely manner then that is the thing that I would name rather than the lack of productivity

    4. Earlk*

      I also if the LW would be able to notice the pattern if they were fully in office and their employee had a more chill day once a week

    5. Tau*

      I admit this one made me think too. I know I’m less productive on WFH days – I just can’t focus as well at home as in the office – but I still WFH regularly (because it’s practical due to my commute and because I doubt I’d be super-productive in the office on Fridays either, since the thing that really helps me concentrate is having other people around me and the office is pretty abandoned on Fridays).

      My thought on the matter is that my bosses have never raised concerns about my productivity overall, and in fact my reviews are always great, so clearly my work output is absolutely fine on average. The fact that it might fluctuate a little during the week seems like a detail. As long as my productivity doesn’t fall beneath an acceptable level day-to-day, does it matter? Especially because my reviews were also positive during the pandemic when I was WFH 100% of the time, so apparently my “ugh I can’t focus as well” output is also acceptable – how far am I obliged to adjust my life so that I’m not just a good employee but in fact the best employee I can be?

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        how far am I obliged to adjust my life so that I’m not just a good employee but in fact the best employee I can be?

        Right? And who among us *isn’t* less productive on Fridays anyway?

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Yeah, I’m currently in the office and definitely reading all of the comments here! And it’s Friday so I’ll probably leave early.

        2. Missa Brevis*

          Me! But I’m a weird case. I work weekends so my ‘Friday’ is Monday and that’s the only day I overlap with most of my coworkers so I cram all of my meetings and tasks that require other people’s input into that day.

          Actual Friday is when I do my meal prep and laundry so I don’t have to do any over the weekend.

        3. Desk Dragon*

          My Fridays often wind up being my busiest and most productive days, because 90% of my work tasks depend on other people finishing their parts first, and things that were supposed to be finished throughout the week pile up and come to me Thursday/Friday.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        I think if my employer wants more out of me, they should show me what rewards I will get from working at a higher level.

        (This doesn’t necessarily have to be an explicit offer, but since there isn’t any position I could be promoted to, there isn’t much incentive for me to go above and beyond. I’m not “quiet quitting” or “working to rule”, but I’m not trying to wow anyone either.)

    6. Yellow rainbow*

      What got me was LW saying the employee gets their work done.

      So if her work is satisfactory why are you unhappy?

      Maybe employee should be less productive on M and W so that it’s even?

      1. A Girl Named Fred*

        Agreed. I was fully expecting the answer to ask the OP to consider what they mean by more work – is the employee genuinely not getting her work done while at home, or does she just get more done at the office? Because IMO as long as the work is getting done it doesn’t matter if the WFH days are a little slower. I have plenty of slow days even being fully in office and I still ended up with the highest review scores possible because I got my work done overall.

    7. Also-ADHD*

      I know it varies by function, but the tracking of daily productivity seemed really micromanaging and bothersome to me as well. I suppose it’s different if this is a function that is very reactive, like helping folks with IT tickets etc. (But then it would vary a lot, for other reasons.) Or if deadlines weren’t being met. I’m full WFH and so is my team, and productivity varies with ebbs and flows. I take many Fridays pretty easy, satisfied with what I’ve accomplished for the week! I have staff that have some days they pick up kids more often or make appointments and those days are the ebb and other times the flow, but the point is overall performance. Personally (and this is sort of the ADHD but I have some colleagues who feel this way too, just less extreme), I work in various bursts and sometimes I’m laser focused for long periods while other days I’m not. This is what’s best for both my big picture productivity and my energy/brain as a human.

      If LW1 needs more done, I think that’s fine, but I felt like there was a lot on the letter that made it really not clear if they wanted more done or just were scrutinizing for patterns. Our brains do love patterns so that may not even always be a conscious thing, but I think I’d start with the what you want the worker to accomplish more than the when or the how.

    8. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Thank you. Not everyone is busy all the time in the office either. They just look like they are because you can physically see them. But sometimes you are just shuffling papers or scrolling on your computers. It might not be actual work.

      Now some people are more productive in the office than at home, less distractions, more energy from other people being around, whatever.

      But if overall productivity is good, it doesn’t matter if there are low energy days. Everyone, even CEOs have them.

      1. Allonge*

        Of course everyone has lower productivity days.

        If it’s noticably the WFH days or there is any other pattern with changing conditions that are easy to regulate, a manager has reason to look into it.

        1. Persephone Mulberry*

          Why, though? If we accept that “everyone has lower productivity days”, why does it matter which day/s is/are low productivity, as long as overall the work is getting done? What about it needs to be looked into?

    9. SheLooksFamiliar*

      ‘…as a manager, I don’t have an expectation that my staff have the same level of productivity every day.’

      This is a great point. I know each of my team has their own rhythm. One person begins the week with more energy than 2 people combined, but levels out by Wednesday. Another practically sleepwalks on Monday but by Tuesday they’re ON. During our bi-weekly one on ones, we talk about their overall productivity, not daily output. We all have ‘those days’, right?

      There’s consistency, and there’s rigid consistency for the sake of consistency. As long as my team produces, meets their goals, and manages their time well overall, I’m happy.

    10. Cj*

      I agree that an employee’s productivity is going to fluctuate. however, the potential problem I see in this case is that the OP thinks that their employee is doing housework, Etc, part of the day instead of working. and not just something like the few minutes that it takes to throw a load of laundry in the wash.

      since the employee does good work and is meeting deadlines, I wouldn’t see that as a problem if they are salaried. but if they are paid hourly, they should be working during the hours there being paid for, not cleaning the house.

      I couldn’t find anything in the letter that said if they are salaried or hourly, and I did look for that a couple of times, but I could have missed it.

      1. Dinwar*

        I’m not sure that’s going to be a real problem, though. Some things require thinking, and that can be done away from the keyboard. I know I’ve done dishes or laundry while thinking about a problem before. If I were in the office I’d be organizing files, which is the same thing really–low-brainpower work that lets your hands and eyes do something while your brain is elsewhere. The solutions were good and saved the company time and money, which was the point of the exercise; why should my boss care what I happened to be doing with my hands while I worked on the issue?

        If they’re editing documents or doing something that requires being at a computer, sure, doing laundry can be a problem. But without knowing more about this person’s career and responsibilities, this is not a question we can reasonably answer.

    11. learnedthehardway*

      Agreeing – it’s entirely possible that the employee is great on the days she is in the office BECAUSE she has a day to work from home. Or, like Allison mentioned, maybe she saves the most complex, time consuming work for days at home when she won’t be interrupted – that would explain an apparent decrease in productivity.

      I think the manager should set reasonable performance metrics and let the employee figure out how to reach them.

    12. Hyaline*

      This was my exact reaction–who expects completely equal productivity every day? If this pattern happened in-office, would the manager care? And ultimately, if the employee is meeting all objectives and performing well, why make it an issue?

      If the LW wants to raise expectations or thinks it’s not really ok for their team to be performing at the level they are, that’s a different story. But “I think my employee gets less done while at home and more done in the office but they meet all their deadlines with solid work” seems like a nonissue with little purpose to bringing it up except making the employee feel scrutinized.

      The long “laundry discussion” above only cements this for me, as it seems to circle the question of “how much time are you allowed to be non-work-productive while WFH” and uhhh how many of ya’ll are productive 100% of the time in the office? Not only does the office suck up some time–commute, personal grooming that you might not do for WFH like hair and makeup, possibly taking lunch with others, hallway conversations, waiting to use equipment, etc–plenty of in-office time is not strictly productive. I think we just perceive in-office time as automatically ok because of Butt in Chair Syndrome. My butt’s in the chair…so when my coworker spends half an hour chatting in my office door I’m not on the hook for that time. If I were home and spent half an hour on various chores throughout the day, that’s somehow “different.” Except really…it’s not different when it comes to meeting deadlines, producing good work, contributing fairly, etc.

      1. SheLooksFamiliar*

        I’ve said this for years: Some of the most impressive time-wasters I ever worked with or had under me were in the office 9 to 10 hours a day. What they did during those hours was a mystery, but it surely wasn’t work.

        So no, I’m not impressed by people putting in face time in the office, despite C-Suite nostalgia.

    13. Cookie Monster*

      Yeah, TBH, I don’t see exactly what the problem is. And to be clear, I’m not saying there’s no problem! I’m just saying the LW says she meets all her deadlines and is a good worker…but she’s not perfectly 100% productive all of the time? Well…who is? I get that she’s noticed a pattern of it always being the WFH day, but I wish the LW was more specific about how her lower productivity is actually a problem.

      1. Myrin*

        Yeah, I, for some reason, inferred that Claire isn’t particularly active in the sense of “reachable” or “responsive” but I realised that that’s not actually in the letter but was just a feeling I got – I’d be interested to know what exactly OP means by “less productive”, too!

    14. ItDepends*

      Yes, when I used to work hybrid I was waaaaay more productive on my WAH days. And when I was mostly at home, work at office 1-2x month I rarely even opened my laptop on office dats because I spent the entire day either in meetings or talking to folks 1-1. I was productive, but in an entirely different way than a normal workday. I’ve been mostly or entirely WAH for about a decade now and my productivity varies based on a variety of factors. This is not a one size fits all thing, or even a one size always fits one case.

  3. Raida*

    I would add, for the WfH productivity, to keep in mind that LW has said this is a good staff member who gets her work done.

    Because… well… “She’s less productive” and “She gets her work done, well, every week” kinda sounds like…
    “My employee is utilising WfH to her advantage, getting chores done so after work and on weekends and when the kids are home she’s able to enjoy that time, but by god I could be getting *more* work out of her!”

    Absolutely, talk about it. Absolutely discuss if she’s getting interrupted, if it’s different types of tasks, if she plans this out, if it’s not having an ‘office face’ on.
    But focus on “Are you okay?” and not “Do. More. Work.”

    1. sarah*

      By that logic, people should just be allowed to work 4 days a week but be paid for 5 so they have extra time with their kids. (i’m not sure that’s such a terrible thing but I doubt most employers would give it their blessing.)

      1. misspiggy*

        Four day working week initiatives are doing very well, probably because of exactly this.

        1. londonedit*

          Yep, it’s been proven time and again that people can get their work done in 4 days rather than 5, and that it’s better for mental health, staff retention and can even save the company money.

        2. 1-800-BrownCow*

          At my last company, I was able to go to a 4-day work week so I could have a 3-day weekend and be my with babies more. Although to do so, they had me reduce my hours to 32-hrs and adjusted my salary to reflect my reduced hours. The loss of salary was a bummer, but I accomplished so much more in both my home life and my work life having a 4-day work week and I was less stressed and happier all around. Despite all that, after a year I was getting pressure to come back to a 5-day work week. Not because of job performance issues, but because other people complained that it was unfair that I only worked 4 days and they worked 5. The only person on my team that didn’t complain was the only other woman, who had raised 2 kids herself, so she understand. The men on my team who were complaining, the ones with young kids at home, their wives were stay-at-home moms.

      2. Lost academic*

        That’s literally called summer hours and utilized in many different places, including manufacturing.

        1. 1-800-BrownCow*

          I need to find those “many different places” as I’ve worked in manufacturing over 30 years and never worked anywhere that does this.

      3. Also-ADHD*

        I work in a distributed org in a function that is naturally remote and serves many markets, so my team is remote. If we get our work done faster, there are absolutely days where individuals or the team CAN basically take off. I’m not working much today—I have one brief task, one meeting, and I’ll noodle around with a few other things and be done early for sure but also go run an errand, possibly hike with my dog, but I just finished a huge deadline earlier this week and jumped in for a crisis last week. My boss does the same stuff and so do my reports.

        Our folk style of work is likely not the case for LW1, but some ebb and flow may be reasonable or even useful to their productivity overall. We don’t know. I think if LW wants certain things done that don’t get done, they should say so. They should also say if it particularly matters what day they get done.

      4. Seeking Second Childhood*

        4×10 work schedules are excellent productivity tools for many people – 2 hours focus every day!

        1. Victoria, Please*

          when my university did 4×10 summers pre-pandemic, productivity dropped 30%, I estimate.

        2. Analyst*

          I loathe these. A 4 day work week where you still work 40 hours is just a compressed work week/flexible schedule not a true 4 day work week. And now you have people trying to focus for 10 hours in a day? Not good. 4 day work week is 32 hours.

          1. Orv*

            I was going to say, that wouldn’t work for me. I don’t have ten hours of focus in me in a day. Many days I struggle to focus for eight consecutive hours.

            1. Archi-detect*

              my job lets me do 8 9 hour days in a two week period and one 8 to total to 40 hours, so that works out to every other friday off. I feel like one more hour a day isn’t too bad, and having every other Friday off makes it a treat

        3. Lola*

          That sounds horrible to me. I would be utterly burnt out by Friday, rendering my “extra” day off useless.

          In my mind, 4-day work weeks mean 32 hours. The whole point is to give people more time so that are NOT burnt out.

      5. ferrina*

        I’m exempt, so yeah, I get paid the same whether I work 30 hours or 50 hours. My boss is extremely reasonable about the butt-in-seat hours that I work, because she ‘s more interested in my output. If I get my goals met in 4 days and only vaguely check my email on Friday, she is totally fine with that.

        On the flip side, she also knows that I will stay late to get things done as needed- I don’t complain about the occasional 50 hours week, and she doesn’t complain about the occasional 30 hour week, because the work is getting done and getting done well.

    2. Stoli*

      It’s consistent on her WFH days. Yes, the conversation should be more work needs to be done. WFH is not do errands, cooking, cleaning, laundry, from home.

          1. A Girl Named Fred*

            But is the work OP wants to see on Tuesdays the general requirements of the job, or things that go above and beyond? Because if she’s a good employee who gets her work done, I don’t see why you can’t let her have her slower Tuesdays. Maybe she works harder on M/W specifically so she doesn’t feel guilty if T is slower. If that were the case (and I’m aware I’m fully speculating, this is a hypothetical) should she pull back the productivity on M/W so that T becomes more productive? Or keep her current system which has allowed her to be a good employee who meets deadlines and gets her work done?

          2. Mockingjay*

            I think OP1 is writing in for a different reason. They are using productivity as the excuse to inquire into Claire’s wellbeing. “But she has mentioned to me on a couple of occasions about difficult times at home, citing behavior from her husband that I would say is unreasonable / bordering on being emotionally abusive…” But OP1 didn’t explicitly write in about that. Either way, Alison’s advice allows OP1 to open the conversation based on productivity and go from there.

            [In the realm of conjecture here: I remember the stress and exhaustion of being a working couple with a toddler and an infant. Unkind, ugly words and resentment of each other’s roles were occasional features of (heated) conversations. But there was no abuse, just two people trying to make their marriage and careers work, and we had to learn to talk to each other to resolve things instead of venting to others. It might be the same with Claire. I hope so.]

          3. roann*

            But LW specifically says that the employee is a good worker, meets all deadlines, and gets all her work done. She’s also knowledgeable and personable. So… what actually is the problem? It is not very well defined by LW in my opinion. Is it that LW wants the employee to go above and beyond [such that getting it all done would require higher productivity on her wfh days]? Then redefine the job requirements and have a conversation about that.

            Right now it seems like the concern is “You’re not working hard enough even though I acknowledge that you’re getting all your work done.”

            1. ferrina*

              I agree- I’d like to see LW better define the issue. Is it that Claire isn’t actually getting parts of the work done or it’s impacting other departments? Or is it that LW is fine with the work but doesn’t like the idea of Claire potentially not doing work during work time.

              I think it also makes a difference what Claire’s compensation structure is. If Claire is hourly and she’s billing hours that she’s not working (note: this would need to regularly be multiple hours, not minor things like taking a coffee break or using the bathroom), that’s a potential problem. But if she’s generally just a bit slower but still in normal range (and it’s not impacting other people’s work), I’d encourage LW to let it go.

            2. Orv*

              I wonder if this is one of those cases where the job requirements are actually the minimum acceptable work product, and you’re expected to constantly go above and beyond. I’ve worked places like that and they’re kind of toxic.

            3. Malarkey01*

              She says in the letter she wants to give her some more tasks but isn’t sure she has capacity. They’re a two person office so if Claire has some excess capacity it’s entirely reasonable to add them to her duties.

              There’s an unusual disconnect on this site where I think people confuse I occasionally have a little more downtime which is fine and I get everything done in 4 hours so my employer should give me 4 hours free time instead of hey we don’t have your job properly workloaded and there is more work for our group.

              1. Also-ADHD*

                I think LW could discuss giving her more tasks without being focused on Tue / WFH necessarily if that’s the goal though.

    3. Thegreatprevaricator*

      This was my thought. I work a hybrid schedule. Actually my office team day is least productive in terms of output but I’m there being present and catching up with team. Which is what it’s for. My workplace is accepting of flexible work patterns which don’t need formal adoption if you meet core hours. This means I can get my kid from school and sometimes means I work on something into the night because that’s how the day worked out. As a parent of younger child, this is how I stay in the workforce and also this is how I thrive in the workforce. People prefer different set ups but if this employee is performing well otherwise then maybe don’t fix what isn’t broken?

      1. CR*

        I agree. OP herself says Claire is meeting her deadlines and getting stuff done. So what’s the problem??

    4. Van Wilder*

      This.

      I would be looking at her overall productivity for the week. Is she performing at the level you expect? Maybe she is slacking off on Tuesdays but makes sure she’s on top of her game Mondays and Wednesdays to make up for it.

      If you’re overall happy with her work, I’d just consider letting it go?

  4. nnn*

    Another possible approach for #5:

    “I’m reluctant to record the training because, between the fact that I’m a new hire myself and the fact that I’m unfamiliar with this platform, I’m not confident the recorded training will end up meeting trainees’ needs, and then future trainees will be stuck with nothing but an inadequate recording to refer back to.

    If I could do this round of training in person – or even in an interactive online session that isn’t recorded – I could beta-test what I have in mind, identify weaknesses and areas for improvement, and ultimately be able to record a more polished, final version in the future.”

    (This approach would still have you recording it in the future, but that would happen once you’re comfortable with delivering the training itself.)

    1. Ljj*

      I was going to suggest something similar—I tend to think nobody ever refers back to long recordings, but you could record a quick run through of the main elements afterwards, screen share to capture the activities but keep your camera off and do voice only, if that helps with nerves. I use an interactive platform called Miro regularly and it lets you collect all the materials you’ll be reviewing and then you record a “talk track” that moves users view of the screen to match yours, for example.

      1. nnn*

        Oh, that’s a good idea! Also with something like that, you could possibly do multiple takes, or a series of short videos showing each activity in the procedure rather than one giant everything training, which would significantly reduce the pressure

      2. Caramel & Cheddar*

        I used to keep track of the view counts of meeting that people asked me to record and can confirm that no one is watching this stuff.

        1. ferrina*

          Ditto- I’ve run a ton of trainings for my company, and the recordings barely ever get touched. We hit the record button as standard protocol just in case someone ever wants to watch it later….then we forget we have the recording, and when someone needs to be trained, we just train them live again (and record that session too).

    2. Azure Jane Lunatic*

      Yeah, the first time I gave a training it was incredibly long, and recorded; I probably could have cut it down by at least a third if I’d been able to prepare. It seems disrespectful of the time of the future people who will need to interact with it, to have the finished product be a first-draft effort of someone who is new to the topic.

      I guess the first question I would ask is, what kind of editing/processing will the recording get put through in order to become a finished training that others will have to consume? If the answer is zero, I think the company may be practicing false economies.

      1. KateM*

        Yeah, during pandemic, I recorded examples of solving certain kind of problems which I had done in classroom many times before, and I wouldn’t consider these videos official-training-video-worthy at all.

    3. Em*

      Yeah, this makes a lot of sense and sounds very reasonable. I was going to suggest creating a .pdf/slide deck with notes to share as documentation, because it’s so much easier to have text documentation rather than a long recording.
      I am in the situation where I’m supposed to work on a new project I know nothing about, and the architect is leaving so no one knows anything. I’m left with hours and hours of recorded high level “knowledge shares” and I can guarantee you they will be minimally helpful but incredibly time consuming to slog through.

      1. Tau*

        I’m also frustrated by the whole “everything needs to be video” thing, because IMO video is just a bad format for these things! (Ask me about the way almost every “how to do X” instruction is a Youtube video these days, lol.) A PDF/slide deck thing sounds like a great idea, and would have the advantage that OP would be going to their boss with an alternative plan rather than just “I don’t want to record this training”. If they plan out what to do with the written documentation – the sort of thing it could cover, where it could be stored, how to make sure people know about it, how to make sure it’s kept up to date, etc. – it could even boost their reputation due to them looking like a proactive problem-solver.

        1. Holly.*

          Yes, and documents are much easier to update than a video.

          In a previous job a Director produced a brilliant training video, but he wasn’t available when it needed to be updated, so there’s sections where suddenly it’s filmed elsewhere with a different colleague talking, then back to the original person in his office. Very jarring, and not a problem we would have had with a no talking powerpoint or similar.

        2. Caramel & Cheddar*

          Videos can be good for certain types of training, but the most important thing is that a) it can’t be a single hour long video, and b) a meeting recording is not a training video. What LW is being asked to do is ridiculous from an employee training perspective. No one is going to watch that video, ever.

          1. ferrina*

            Lol, sounds like you and I have the same job! Totally agree with everything you are saying- videos are rarely the best format, but sometimes they are helpful. But unless you are making a full production, you really don’t want the video to be more than 10 or 15 minutes.

            I think the manager is just trying to dot the i’s and LW is putting more time into worrying about this video than anyone will ever spend watching it (that said, LW, sorry you’re in this position! It is so tough to be asked to train when you aren’t a trainer and aren’t comfortable with the material!)

            1. Caramel & Cheddar*

              Honestly, I think 10 or 15 minutes is too long! At the start of the pandemic I was watching a lot of Microsoft training videos for products in the Office suite and noticed that they were rarely more than two minutes. That changed my whole approach to video training, so now everything is in bite-sized chunks. I assume Microsoft has done studies on info retention vs video length that led them to this format, so I just piggyback off that learning.

              This lets users do a bunch in a row or spread them out over a longer period where maybe they can grab five minutes but not 50 minutes to do some training. It also helps me keep the content up to date because I’m not re-editing the same hour-long video every time when one tiny thing changes in one tiny part of a task.

              I will say that it’s worth providing written documentation too, both as a supplement and for folks who prefer it. I try to cover off multiple learning styles so people have fewer opportunities to say they couldn’t complete the training.

          2. Flor*

            Hi, do you work with me? At my office, standard procedure for explaining how to do things is to include a demo in a meeting and record the meeting, and then if someone has questions, refer them back to the meeting recording. Last time I was confused about something, which I’d sat through the demo of less than a week earlier, BOTH my managers just pointed me to back to the meeting recording.

          3. Random Bystander*

            Yeah, my work place has brought in several new people while I’ve been here, and I just can’t imagine a recorded training being at all useful. We *have* done Teams calls where I (as the training person being shadowed) am sharing the screen, narrating what I am doing and why, and fielding questions over the course of the time. How can it be helpful to watch a static training video that the trainee can’t real-time interrupt with a question?

        3. Flor*

          Agreed! IMO video is the absolute worst way to do a full training session, because it’s nigh impossible to refer back to when you need to refresh your memory on XYZ specific 2-minute section from that 30+ minute session. Video is great for short demonstrations of things that can be difficult to express in text/diagrams, but rarely for computer instructions, which can usually be more effectively done with screenshots and text, in my experience.

        4. MigraineMonth*

          Somewhere out there is a 5-hour video meeting of someone who was very bad at explaining things trying to walk me through using a 20-year-old integrated development environment to publish an update to an ancient piece of software. It’s basically a slow-motion recording of me going into a mental breakdown with gems like:
          Him: “Now click the save button.”
          Me: “Uh, what save button?”
          Him: “The save database button.”
          Me: “I don’t see any save button.”
          Him: “It’s the button with a yellow cylinder.”
          Me: “How should I have know that was a save button?!”

          In a way, the recording was successful. It’s so painful to watch that replacing that software (so no one ever has to update it again) has become a team priority.

          1. ampersand*

            Ha, I thought maybe we worked at the same place until I got to your last paragraph and saw the software is being replaced!

          2. Jackalope*

            As a related aside, this is one of my issues with replacing menus that have words with ribbons that have pictures. I understand that there are uses to this (particularly for a multilingual market), but it’s incredibly frustrating trying to remember what all of the little icons mean, and some of them make no sense to me. I wish so much that they’d leave both options available so people could choose.

            1. Nightengale*

              My ability to use programs has declined hugely with the substitution of words with pictures. I have terrible visual processing and often have to talk myself through aloud what the picture is meant to be. Whereas I recognize words instantly – it’s like the opposite of dyslexia. I’ve learned a few like the trash can. My workplace does phishing tests and it is much faster for me to forward it to the report e-mail than to find and recognize the phish – I mean fish – shaped button on the screen.

              My ability has also declined with the advent of videos and interactive training sessions and the decrease of written directions that hold still while I follow them. I love watching Julia Child and Alton Brown on television. I cook from a cookbook or web recipe that doesn’t move.

            2. Craig*

              then there are so many people nowadays who don’t know what a floppy disk is let alone the picture of it and older workers are confused by the arrow pointing down because they don’t know what it means.

        5. Craig*

          God, it annoys me. text is so easy to go back over or skim or refer to a part in the middle with video im always skipping back sbd forth trying to find the start of the bit I want to listen to.

    4. Spiritbrand*

      As a recently new hire, I wonder if they are having them teach and record to see how much of it they have absorbed themself. Now might be a good time to go over any questions or areas of difficulty with their manager.

      1. SameBoat*

        Sometimes jobs are just inefficient like that. I worked on a team where we all just trained each other and it was literally the blind leading the blind. We were all junior in our roles (a title with Asssistant in it) and no one even really knew what we did or how we used the systems we had. Any time a new hire came on we would all have to choose a procedure to train the new hire on and record it on video over Teams. I was 3 months on the job before I had to train someone in this way. Our line manager expected us to do this and did use it to measure how well we knew the job but it was also clearly just because no one else could or would train people in our role. They still don’t get how inefficient this is even with all the turn over on that team.

    5. AnxiousInAmsterdam*

      I could be reading more into LW#4’s tone than I should, but it sounds like the problem is mainly that they are “in terror about this”, which suggests a level of distress that is extremely hard to cope with in a professional environment! I hope they can get out of this using some of the suggestions around here, but if not, LW#4, maybe a therapist can help? Even in the short term? I understand what it’s like to have people just be like “you’re going to have to suck it up” when that’s causing you “a lot of distress”, and I’m so sorry this is happening to you! The only reassurance I can offer is that it will probably not be as bad as you think.

  5. QueenieBee*

    If Claire “gets her work done and meets deadlines” I struggle to see what the issue is and how her perceived lower productivity is having an impact.

    1. Nodramalama*

      I’m not saying this is right, but I think that goes to the two ways people tend to view time at work.

      Is it – I pay you for x days, I expect you to work during that time. Or
      – it doesn’t really matter how and when you get your work done, as long as it does

      1. bamcheeks*

        Yeah, I’m super interested in this question because it’s been such a big shift in the UK since the pandemic and the move to more flexible working. Instinctively, the latter works better for me— I don’t know if I’m diagnosably ADHD, but I really identify with a lot of the stuff around time and concentration and work. I reckon I have about 22-25 hours of good concentrated work in me every week, regardless of whether I’m working from home or at work, and that’s what I’ve done in pretty much every job I’ve had. But all of our contracts, pay structures and worker protections are based on the former, and I don’t think know how you would formulate a reasonable, protected and probably compensated workload on ~~vibes~~.

      2. Bast*

        I think the first way of thinking has some serious drawbacks when it comes to production. If I am expected to have 4 reports done at the end of every day, but I know that I can have 8 done, well… why am I going to bust butt to get 8 done when 4 is acceptable and I know that by doing extra work, I am going to finish earlier the rest of the week, have less to do, and get in trouble because now I finished ahead of time? I may as well drag ass and only get 4 done a day.

        1. Orv*

          I have ADHD and as a result I work in deep-focus bursts. I can’t always predict when one will happen. I’ve learned to hold back finished work and parcel it out at a more even pace, lest I be confronted with expectations like “last time this took you three hours, how come it’s been a day and you aren’t done with it yet?”

          1. Disappointed Australien*

            Yep, likewise. Well, in other jobs. Current job is really happy for me to coast most of the time and pull finger when I need to. I stress up front because I don’t like uncertainty, so for me most tasks are “work really hard to establish what’s required and come up with a plan, then vaguely try to look busy while the plan comes together”. But I also panic when things go wrong and have delivered a month’s work in a week before. The “price” my employer pays for that is that when there’s nothing to do that’s what happens.

            Every job has elements of bullshit job about it, but some employers want to see enthusiastic compliance with those parts. Perhaps we could call them “bullshit managers” :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

        2. Blue is faster than Tuesday*

          You are describing “working to the job description”, aka: Quiet quitting.

            1. Pair of Does*

              And a lot of workplaces killed that golden goose themselves. If the expectation is 4, and producing 8 will get you considered a rockstar and promoted/a raise, people will be motivated to do it. But if producing 8 instead of 4 turns your new standard expectation into 4, people declining to go above the expectation is the business’s fault.

              A lot of businesses have long since forgotten that the employee-job deal is supposed to be mutually beneficial.

        3. Cj*

          that doesn’t work for a job like mine were you have to track your time in order to bill your clients.

          you can’t drag your ass on getting your project done for at least two reasons. one is because your client is going to be billed more than they should be if you have more time on your timesheet then what it should actually take you if you were not dragging your ass.

          If you are doing something that there is a fixed fee for, so the time you put down doesn’t affect the billing, my employer knows approximately how much time that type of project should take, and are going to call you out on it if you have much more time than that.

      3. MMR*

        I think this is a flawed way of thinking about most office jobs. Every time I’m in a job interview and ask about how many hours employees normally work and am told “as long as you get your work done, we don’t care what hours you work,” I take it as a red flag.

        There is always more work that can be done. Companies need some kind of standard for deciding how much work makes up a single full time role. Theoretically, that is going to be based on what an average person can get done in 40 hours a week. If your manager realizes you consistently have a day of extra capacity every week, that’s going to intrinsically change how they see the role and what its scope should be.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          That’s interesting because I see that as a green flag. The idea of “there is always more work that can be done” just punishes employees who are efficient by giving them more work simply because they’re good at finishing their projects. If that’s the approach an employer took for me I’d take my time on my project since finishing it early (even if it’s correct and well done!) is just going to make them pile more work on me lest I should enjoy an extra thirty minutes doing something that’s not work.

          I should note, my current employer takes the “just meet your deadlines” approach, and the result is that sometimes when I have finished my work early I DO decide to take on more projects for myself or take some things of someone else’s plate.

        2. Also-ADHD*

          I have a job where my management, and I as a manager, truly do not care about hours worked. If they’re overworked, I want to know (if we’re on a crunch, we may work over 40 temporary but even though we are salary, we take that time back) but if they’re “not busy enough” I’m unconcerned. If there’s more stuff I want us to take on as a team and I’m not in agreement we’re at capacity, we’ll investigate (maybe I’m wrong, maybe they’re over prioritizing a simple task and doing too much with it, etc). But it’s not about when/where/butts in seats etc. except being prompt and available when needed for particular reasons (meetings etc). My team is pretty much all high performers so rewarding them with more work piled on isn’t super fun (though they often create their own useful goals and projects as do I). That’s more every field but it’s certainly not a universal truth that every company wants all teams burnt out etc. There’s actually tons of research that’s not effective for business outcomes.

      4. MigraineMonth*

        Or the really fun one for salaried people: “I don’t care how many hours it takes you, you need to get all your work done, and you also need to work full time for the x days I pay you for.”

        My first professional job was salaried, so they didn’t pay us overtime for the 50-hour weeks we put in or the weeks we did travel and also 12-hour days. We also had to track our time in 15-minute increments (“for project planning purposes”), and they automatically emailed your manager for coaching if you ever logged less than 40 hours in a week.

    2. Allonge*

      That is something OP needs to clarify for her and Claire, but it could be e.g. slower response time on Tuesdays, more workload shifted to the rest of the week which makes her less available on those days and so on.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      I think OP definitely needs to spell this out to themselves, before having the conversation. Is it a matter of optics, and Clare’s reputation being affected? Is it her availability/responsiveness on those days, even if she meets overall deadlines? Is it just a vague sense that she could do more, or does it feel like she’s really, truly absent on those days to the extent of wage theft/taking the piss? I do think it’s worth considering that the occasional low key day often fuels the more productive day that follows.

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        Is it really having a work impact? If not, leave it alone. If it is, then spell that out – on Tuesdays, when there is a question it takes longer to get an answer or whatever.

        Also how long has she been WFH on Tuesdays? If it is still fairly new there is an adjustment period where have to get used to it. I know when I started working from home I had to train my mother not to call during the workday. She felt because I worked from home that meant I was available to talk. I had to explain the W part of WFH. It took … awhile.

    4. Jo*

      Came here to say this as well. Confused by how she can be a good employee meeting all her deadlines but be worried about a potential lack of productivity.

      As many others have said, even when I used to go into the office, Fridays were absolutely lower productivity days for our entire team (same as Mondays actually due to lots of meetings) which pretty much everyone kinda knew but just never explicitly acknowledged.

      As always, the advice should be focus on the outcome you want: is it for the employee to deliver work on time to a good standard, or to hit some arbitrary level of productivity each day.

      1. CR*

        No one talks about how being in the office can actually disrupt productivity just because there are so many distractions, people chatting, etc.

        1. House On The Rock*

          When we started working from home at the start of the pandemic, I was surprised by how much more work I was getting done without all the background office noise. Simply being able to get up and go to the bathroom without having to dodge at least a couple people who wanted to talk was wonderful.

          The downside was that after the same amount of time working at home that I’d spend in the office, I was really drained because almost all the time was WORK with very few breaks. Now I’ve learned to build in breaks, whether it’s eating lunch with my spouse, doing some light housework, or just playing with the cats. I’m still more productive than I was in the office and much happier (Zoom fatigue aside – that’s still a thing).

    5. BBB*

      my thoughts exactly!
      if the work is getting done, why does it matter? sounds to me like the manager has some introspection work to do and some biases to examine more so than Claire needing to change her workload distribution for the week…

    6. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      This is what it seems like to me:

      Nobody is, and nobody reasonable expects, 100% productive work every hour of every day. Let’s say most salaried people spend about half an hour a day doing stuff like chatting with coworkers, getting coffee, stretching their legs, etc.

      Now let’s say that in this case, Claire laser focuses on her in-office days and really is 100% productive. Great! Fantastic! And she doesn’t do as much on her WFH day, maybe she spends an hour on household tasks here and there. It’s possible for someone to have above average productivity overall and still have a lower day.

      So the question is, is Claire’s overall productivity substandard, or are her Tuesdays just not up to her regularly high standards?

  6. nnn*

    Things to consider for #1 in refining your approach:

    – Is her productivity for the week sufficient (and Tuesday is just a weaker day) or is she not meeting the kinds of goals she should be for the week because of her Tuesdays?
    – Is this new? If yes, when did it start and what did that correlate with?
    – If it’s not new, what changed that you’re bringing it up now?
    – How would you be reacting if this Tuesday productivity level was her regular everyday productivity level, and she’s doing three Tuesdays worth of work a week?
    – How would you be reacting if the lower-productivity day were an in-office day?

    1. Green great dragon*

      These are really helpful questions. Be clear in your own mind whether Tuesdays mean she isn’t doing well enough overall, or whether she’s meeting the minimum but could do more overall. Ultimately, if this doesn’t change, would you want to replace her or is she still a solid performer?

    2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I would want to build some metrics to back up my intuition, too. If I cannot quantify the productivity gap, how confident can I be of its not being white noise?

  7. TheBunny*

    LW#1 I agree with Alison that step 1 is to know why it seems like there’s a different level of productivity.

    At a former job, I was remote 2 days per week. I tried to schedule all my candidate interviews on that day. (At one point I was recruiting for 11 open roles).

    That meant I want always available if someone called me, or to immediately reply to emails. It probably did seem like I was getting less done when in actuality I was speaking to 4-5 candidates, reviewing resumes prior to the calls and compiling notes after… really I was more productive on those days even though it likely didn’t look like it.

    1. GythaOgden*

      I think OP would know if her report was hiring or was doing any high level focus work like that!

      To me, it suggests that when OP needs something, her report takes longer to respond or has less to show for her day in a job where there needs to be tangible results. That’s why OP has said she notices less productivity on those days.

      1. Bast*

        I like that Alison pointed out the type of tasks people do on WFH days may vary. Old Job was very noisy and full of distractions. I was constantly interrupted which made focus work hard. While only a portion of my job, we had different types of reports, for lack of a better term, to complete. Easy Report didn’t require much focus, and I could finish in 20-30 minutes, because there may only be 2 or 3 parts to it. Difficult Report could take hours, and could have 4, 5, 6, or 20 parts depending on the case. Difficult Reports required a higher level of focus that was nearly impossible in the office unless I started before anyone else got there (which I also did). Difficult Reports also generated more revenue for the company — it might take 3-5 Easy Reports to generate what one Difficult Report would generate. On face value, it may look like I got “less” done at home because I may only be able to crank out 3 Difficult Reports instead of 6-8 Easy Reports, but it took me significantly less time and had fewer errors due to the lack of interruptions.

        While constant WFH wasn’t my preferred situation (didn’t have a very comfortable set up for it, and Covid kind of ruined it for me) it did help with work that required more intense concentration. While you point out that you believe Boss would know if person was cranking out higher level work, it really depends on what metrics they were using. Our HR tended to use Quantity of Reports Written over Quality or Difficulty, which meant someone could also rush and turn out absolute garbage, but have a high “productivity ranking” because all that was being looked at was the #. On the flip side, someone who was assigned more Difficult Reports (usually the more senior individuals) might have a lower ranking than someone who mostly only had Easy Reports, (usually more junior employees) because again, they only cared about numbers and not what went into each piece. Trust me, I tried over and over to explain how easy it was to game this system, which people did all the time.

  8. tyra*

    For #5, you’ve just gotta get over it. Like most things that are irrationally scary, the first time is the hardest, you will get used to it. Many of us felt weird seeing ourselves on video on first, just as it feels weird the first time you walk into a new gym, go to a restaurant alone, ask someone on a date…but you do it and it does get easier and then you are a stronger person.

    2. Awkwardness*

      AAM its completely right. Online meetings and recordings have become so normal, that it will be difficult for you to avoid this in the future, also with other employers. You really should get comfortable with the idea of doing online meetings and recordings.
      Do your research! Will you be required to have the camera on? Have a test meeting and try to find a good angle/distance for the camera.
      Set up a test meeting with a co-worker and record it. Go through the different settings, check authorisations, see where the recording is saved and how it can be shared. Check your headset and how you are able to mute/unmute yourself.
      Everything you can learn about the platform that makes it less of an unknown thing, will help you.

      1. GythaOgden*

        Yeah, aside from HR meetings we record most meetings as a matter of routine. Training videos can go on the learning zone. Speaker events can be useful for those who couldn’t attend at the time who want to benefit from the knowledge shared. Tenants’ meetings (we manage property) get recorded so we can refer back to them (and I can capture accurate minutes afterwards). We do warn people that we’ll be recording, but we phrase it as ‘this is SOP for us; if you don’t want to be recorded, drop off the call and we can fill you in later. In almost nine months of these meetings, no-one has ever dropped off.

        It’s just so routine that it’s a non issue and you’re likely to be looked at a bit askance. If you have some time to prepare, do so, because that will make it a better resource in general. But ultimately you’re producing a work product

        1. Annie*

          My impression is that the ask was delivered as “Please show the new hires around Llama Express via recorded Teams meeting this Monday kthxbye”

          And the OP is like: Brand new task! Brand new tools! Short time to master! What if I look/sound terrible on the recording?

          Even if the OP has literally nothing to go on but the tools the new hires are supposed to be training on and is still tasked with training the new hires even after pushing back, the OP can make it a little less painful by acknowledging the awkwardness and framing the training as “finding everything out together”.

      2. Antilles*

        I agree with the first paragraph. This is just incredibly normal, enough so that you kind of need to get used to it because it’s just the way things tend to be done. Especially since the task of training a new employee is one where recording it makes the task more effective: The employees you trained can review the video to refresh themselves on information if there was something they didn’t quite understand or even just need a quick check on “wait, where exactly was that command”.
        That said, given that the training will likely involve you sharing your screen, you probably can get away with not being on camera for this one under the guise of “so we can use the entire screen for the presentation, I’m off camera today to save screen real estate”. That might help make you feel a little more comfortable.

      3. Tally miss*

        Before you do the meeting, poke around the software, most (all?) programs let you hide your picture so you don’t need to stare at your self. In Teams you can just right click on your picture qnd select hide me. It makes a huge difference.

    3. Sloanicota*

      I wonder if #4 could ask a coworker to help her co-host; that might make it a lot easier and for some people this would truly not be a big deal (respecting that it *is* to OP). The other person could run the teams part and do the recording, since OP’s unfamiliarity with the platform is one of the things stressing her out; I have done that for less tech-savvy presenters where all they do is share their screen but I’m steering the platform. Also, the other person could gently co-host the speaking part with some prompts or ask questions / manage questions if that’s helpful.

    4. BW*

      1. I highly recommend taking a public speaking course like Dale Carnegie or Toast Masters. It takes several weeks to get over your fear of public speaking, but it really helps.

      2. Chances are, you won’t even be on camera. Your Powerpoint slides will be on camera.

      3. Odds are that NOBODY will ever watch these videos. I did a ton of training videos before I left, by management’s request. I doubt seriously that anyone has ever watched them. I’m sure they forgot about them right after I made them.

    5. T.N.H*

      This sounded to me like it rises to the level of anxiety/a mental health issue. I agree that they will have to move past it and should probably start with a therapist. But also, practice doing the training to your mom/best friend/mentor for even just a few minutes before delivering it. That will help you through bugs.

  9. Brain the Brian*

    I feel like we’ve explored every possible angle of LinkedIn use over the last week. Is its popularity skyrocketing in a way I hadn’t noticed or something?

    FWIW, I also see a lot of political posts and “likes” from my coworkers. Because of the nature of my company’s work, a lot of it centers around one specific topic that affects us a lot, and I agree with most of what my coworkers say about that topic on LinkedIn — but some of them are a bit too far “out there” from the mainstream for something I’d be comfortable saying publicly. I’ve just trained myself not to care too much, I guess.

    1. Jill Swinburne*

      Yeah, I think since Facebook has fallen in popularity, and possibly because more people WFH, LinkedIn has become a bit of a professional water cooler type place. The stuff I see there! Do they not realise potential employers/clients/candidates can see?!

      And as for the retired people who go on there to rail about woke young people, words fail me. Go and take an art class or something.

      1. Allonge*

        Same with the issues on Xitter – some people want the same kind of interaction on LinkedIn now.

        1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          And want to behave the way they do on Twitter instead of treating LinkedIn as the OP does, an extension of the office.

          LinkedIn was marketed as a professional networking. People need to treat it that way. If you wouldn’t say it or do it in the office, don’t say or do it on LinkedIn.

          1. Cmdrshprd*

            Your last sentence: “If you wouldn’t say it or do it in the office, don’t say or do it on LinkedIn.”

            And OP sentence of: “Everyone knows politics should be kept out of the workplace,”

            That is actually something I want to push back on, that no actually not everyone knows to keep politics out of the workplace. based on letters here many many people don’t (since this is a collection of bad stories, it is hard to say how wide a problem it is, no one really writes in to say no one talks about politics in their job) know that politics should be kept out of the workplace.

            to be clear I do agree with the idea that “politics should be kept out of the workplace.”

            But I disagree that everyone knows that or maybe people know but do t care/agree. So I am not really surprised people on LinkedIn post political stuff.

            1. Irish Teacher.*

              Yeah, I was thinking the same, that not everybody avoids politics IN the office either. I hear plenty of political comments at work, most are stuff that is fairly agreed on, but I have heard a couple of things that are pretty controversial and apparently, one of my colleagues once wore a poppy (very controversial in Ireland) to work. Knowing the guy in question, he very likely did it to provoke a reaction. I also had another colleague ask my views on abortion in the run-up to our referendum here and there are few topics more controversial in Ireland than abortion.

              1. DCBreadBox*

                OP here – all fair points. I probably should have phrased it ‘people SHOULD know politics don’t belong in the office’ or maybe that’s a minority opinion these days.

                1. Brain the Brian*

                  I’m not sure it’s entirely a minority opinion these days. I do think that people are increasingly self-sorting into companies and industries that carry with them a subconscious political bent — and then encountering a lot of group-think at work that makes them think everyone agrees with an opinion to the extent that it’s no longer political, when in reality people in other industries may feel quite differently about it. Generally increasing polarization doesn’t help, either — people are more likely to believe their politics are life-or-death than they were 25 years ago — and is encouraged by industry-based self-sorting.

                  As an example, my company — a nonprofit that works in over a dozen countries — theoretically has no political aims, but nearly everyone who works for us is on far the left of the political spectrum in all of our countries. It would be almost impossible to have an interest in the kind of work we do if you were right-wing — and while we don’t discuss our voting habits at work, there are some policies that come up daily as a result of our normal work. That all bleeds over into LinkedIn, which I think people often see as an extension of their own office’s professional norms.

              2. Alice*

                The reason I quit my job will probably be politics in the office. I’m afraid my LGBTQ+ clients think that I support people who hate them based on the signs my employer posts outside the business. My coworkers regularly have conversations trashing trans people and saying we need a civil war. It’s disgusting and horrifying, but I don’t feel like I can speak up without personal ramifications.

            2. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

              One problem is that what counts as “politics” has itself become a political topic. Just as one example, aspects of the pandemic response (mask mandates, vaccines, etc) from both government entities and employers.

            3. WhoGeek*

              I think that’s especially true for people who are entering more white collar jobs whose family has had blue collar jobs. A lot of the “unspoken rules” of how to behave in an office aren’t something they’ve ever picked up from their parents or other family.

              Additionally I find myself disagreeing with Allison on this one in regards to just ignoring it. As someone whose very existence is often called political as a queer person if someone else counters offensive comments it’s incredibly reassuring. Even if it’s just letting the other person’s boss know that you heard/saw them say something offensive that can have an impact. Especially if you’re not the target demographic, that can be hugely impactful on how a company responds. Additionally you are not responsible for confronting them about the offensive meme that they might not have even realized was offensive.

        2. Elizabeth West*

          The way you wrote that looks like it should be pronounced “Sh*tter,” and I concur. :’D

    2. Jellybeans*

      Yeah I’m confused at the number of people treating LinkedIn like it’s the Stone Tablets Of Truth. (Thinking of things like, people getting furious and making complaints over the fact someone hasn’t updated their LinkedIn and they felt this constituted some kind of fraud – I haven’t even logged in to LinkedIn in at least five years!)

      It’s just social media. It may have a work focus but there’s very little difference between LinkedIn and Facebook.

      1. You Can't Pronounce It*

        This is why I deleted my LinkedIn. I hated having people I barely knew, possibly never actually worked with, raving about some skill I had and then asking me to do the same for them. I won’t put my name down as backing you on something I don’t know if you can actually do or not. I also don’t need you doing that for me.

        Recently I have been debating on re-establishing a profile, but now I’m not so sure I want to.

      2. nodramalama*

        genuinely my linked in had the wrong position for nearly a year and im fairly sure it thinks i still work at my old job.

      3. MassMatt*

        It was never intended to be like Facebook but I noticed that sort of posting increased several years ago. Not just politics, but people using beach and vacation photos as profile pics, etc.

        I find it annoying, but like grammar, usage changes over time so there isn’t much that can be done about it. Especially as LinkedIn as a company has little incentive to require or enforce any changes sine more users=more revenue.

      4. Persephone Mulberry*

        I haven’t logged into LI in five years, either, don’t remember my login info, and there’s a 50/50 chance I’ve lost access to the email address I used to set it up so I don’t know if I could get into my account if I wanted to. If I ever need LI again, I’m probably going to have to start a new profile from scratch. Which is probably for the best, honestly.

    3. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It feels like a lot of people treat it like Facebook, which I deleted years ago because some folks I knew were too interested in some truly unhinged political stuff. I find it creeping in on LinkedIn too, but often it will be from former colleagues who I don’t really need to stay connected with and I just unfollow or mute them.

      Like Alison says, it gives you a piece of info about them to store away, but otherwise there’s not much to do with the info itself.

    4. Mockingjay*

      I keep repeating this (to the point that I wish Alison would preface responses about LinkedIn questions with this): it’s a social media platform that isn’t moderated very well.

      LinkedIn can be useful – I’ve used it as one tool in my job searches, but it’s not the only platform out there for professional development and interaction. I too have noticed the increase of political rants in lieu of business discussions. I used to report these to the moderators and…nothing happened. I joined a couple of industry groups on LinkedIn and the threads were pointless: “I want to be an X, but I don’t want to study or get certified, so tell me how to do the job in the comments.”

      LinkedIn is the Walmart of office platforms; it has some useful stuff, but you have to go down many long aisles of junk to get to what you want.

      These days I participate in specific industry platforms. These are far more focused and useful.

      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        What other platforms have you found useful? Are they moderated better? More professionally focused? Genuinely curious to know what others have found useful.

    5. Sloanicota*

      I also think people who are Very Online, as OP is, should be aware that the most casual users aren’t putting as much thought into their LinkedIn “presence” as she is and probably don’t give it much weight. Maybe they liked something because their boss posted it, maybe they didn’t read it closely, maybe they didn’t get the meme/dog whistle parts. I wouldn’t ignore what someone does online but if they aren’t very active I would downgrade how meaningful their interactions there are. They may not really understand it’s supposed to be different from FB.

      1. blueberry muffin*

        This commentariat skews Very Online. I always take that into account when I engage.

      2. DCBreadBox*

        OP here – interesting you assume I’m a she. ;)

        I try not to put a lot of weight on it; it’s just frustrating especially when it’s a meme-fied falsehood blended with sexism and it’s a colleague I thought was ok. I know people don’t put a lot of thought into it and I should expect less but I lean earnest and naive which can be horrible traits to live with in the social media space of the time we live in.

        My own personal rules: don’t post anything on LI I’d not want a client/potential employer to see; don’t post anything on Facebook I wouldn’t want my mother to see. Follow me for more tips.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          It’s because I personally default to female pronouns when gender is unknown as a way of countering centuries of the male default, and some commenters have picked it up too.

    6. Caramel & Cheddar*

      In my experience, people treat it like Facebook these days. Tons of stuff that isn’t work-related, including a lot of political drivel like the kind LW describes. I’ve experienced the same thing where I’ve seen ex-colleagues like posts that would make me go “yikes!” but since they’re ex-colleagues who I don’t actually need to keep in touch with, i could just mute or unfollow them. As Alison said, it’s an extra piece of information with which to form a picture of them.

    7. Jeanine*

      LinkedIn has had some more political posts but I don’t see a problem with it. This the most important election we’ve ever had coming up. It needs to be talked about. What the US is turning into and will turn into if things go a certain way needs to be talked about. I refuse to hide who I am on there, and I don’t care what people see about stuff I like. This is too important to gloss over.

    8. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

      I’m ok with work-related political posts on LinkedIn, but I’m bothered by posts that are inaccurate, vitriolic, and/or unrelated to work. For anyone else who’s bugged by it, there is actually a “hide post” feature where you can indicate that you don’t want to see political content. Whether their algorithm actually reduces it, I’m not sure, as I’ve only used it a couple times on stuff that’s really nasty. (I wouldn’t bother, but LinkedIn often serves me the same content several times, and it bothers me to see hateful stuff from weeks ago pop back up.)

    9. smirkette*

      There have been lots of tech layoffs, and the job market is pretty rough unless you’re looking for underpaid positions, so there may be more activity on LinkedIn.

  10. Language Lover*

    lw #1

    Just from your letter, I think there are pieces missing. You say things like she is a good employee, gets her work done and meets her deadlines. You also say she “seemingly” is less productive on Tuesdays but the only reasoning provided for that “seemingly” perception is that you know she has…a crappy husband. I’m going to assume there’s more to it and that’s what you should focus on.

    Before you meet with her, stop thinking about what you think she’s doing at home instead of working and rather be specific about what you think you’re not getting from her on the days she’s at home. Is she less available for calls? Or do you simply not hear from her and only think she’s doing most of her work on the days she’s in the office? For instance, my boss and I mostly communicate what each of us are working on during the days we’re together in the office. Those are days we cover a lot of ground but much of that groundwork was laid on the days we work from home.

    1. GythaOgden*

      Can we take the LW at her word she sees a difference? This isn’t a court of law where evidence has to be laid out; it’s an advice blog, where LWs come with a particular issue, write a brief summary of the problem and ask Alison’s advice. Interrogating someone as to whether they REALLY TRULY see a difference and didn’t say that and why do they think someone is less productive (when they presumably have access to metrics etc) isn’t a part of that package.

      It’s also in the rules, so maybe we should refresh ourselves of that and get back into line.

      1. bamcheeks*

        Right but — clarify what the difference you’re seeing and don’t get into what you *think* she’s doing before you talk to your employee IS the advice. It’s not about not believing her or her having to prove something to commenters, it’s the way she should approach it if she wants a positive outcome!

        1. nodramalama*

          i agree but in this case imo we shouldn’t be interrogating “is she less productive while wfh”, and take LW’s observations at face value. I think the better questions are 1. why is she more unproductive and 2. does it matter if overall they’re meeting their deadlines/targets whatever

          1. bamcheeks*

            I would agree if the question was phrased as, “my report is less productive when WFH, how should I address this”, but LW does sound pretty ambivalent about it: “my report is seemingly less productive, what do I do? Do I need to do anything?” “Do nothing, the status quo is actually OK” very much seems to be one of LW’s options.

            Obviously we can differ in how we read the letter, but to me, the question is “without looking into this in detail, I think I’m starting to see a pattern, possibly influenced by knowing she’s got a lot going on at home, but the overall picture is still good, do I need to do anything or not”. I don’t think Language Lover’s response is “not taking her at her word”, it’s answering the question she’s asking.

          2. Clisby*

            I think a better first question is “how is she unproductive?” because LW says nothing about that. She says the employee gets her work done and meets deadlines, but “seemingly” is less productive on WFH days. So if the LW is going to talk to the employee about this, she needs to get her head straight on exactly what she wants to be different. Based on LW’s own account, it sounds like she’s producing the output the job requires.

            1. hiraeth*

              Yes – I tick more tasks off (we have lists and they’re visible to our managers) on an in-office day but that’s because I schedule shorter and less focused tasks for those days, since I know I’ll have more distractions and interruptions. If I follow up with ten suppliers on an in-office day, my list looks a lot shorter by the end of the day even though I’ve basically sent ten emails and not much else. On a WFH day, I might put in eight solid focus hours on one huge task that happens to take more than eight hours and can’t be visibly broken down into smaller subtasks. In that case I’ve ticked nothing off but still been seriously productive. So it does matter how the productivity or lack thereof is being measured.

              (I have feelings about our list system for this exact reason.)

      2. Allonge*

        This. I would guess that very few managers have time to write to an advice column just for fun.

        It’s fine to advise OP to make the issue more specific, especially when talking to Claire. I don’t see how it helps anyone to question if they are really sure and why does it matter anyway.

        Letter writers often add things like ‘they are a good worker/employee/manager/partner/parent’ to balance out the specific complaint. This is useful information! I just don’t see that it needs more importance than the issue at hand.

        1. Don't You Call Me Lady*

          Well the LW themselves say they’re not sure and they’re not sure if it matters, so i think it’s fair game to mention that

      3. MicroManagered*

        MANY managers have unconscious biases and misconceptions about working from home. If you were a reader of the column during the pandemic, there were tons of requests for advice from people being micromanaged and otherwise weirdly-managed (like being required to have your webcam on ALL day, not just during a meeting) because their boss didn’t know how to deal with remote work. I’ve had past managers who flat-out said they thought WFH was BS because people aren’t really going to work, etc.

        It’s not out of pocket to explore the possibility that something like that is going on in this letter. It’s not even clearly stated that LW1 *is* Claire’s manager and there aren’t concrete examples of lower productivity. It’s natural and reasonable to question that in a polite way.

        The person you are replying to is nowhere NEAR needing an admonishment about “the rules”!

      4. RagingADHD*

        Well, the second paragraph of Alison’s answer is all about how the LW’s perception may not be indicating an actual drop in productivity, but a shift to less visible / higher value work. So I don’t think this suggestion of specific ways LW could measure the change is violating the rules …unless you think Alison is somehow violating her own rules that she is in charge of?

      5. Language Lover*

        I took them expressly at their word (words). And those words were vague and contradictory which wouldn’t lead to a very successful meeting unless she can be clearer about what she’s not getting from her employee.

        Letter writers don’t include everything, for sure, but she did find space to include non-important information about her employee’s marriage. Giving the advice to be have more concrete examples of what’s missing compared to what was provided is the advice
        because if I’m the employee, I’m going to ask what she means if she says it seems I’m less productive.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I agree with your second paragraph about seeking to clarify the issue, and particularly the tip to communicate more on WFH days.

  11. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

    OP3 (Sally taking over freelancers work) Is your client in those group email Sally sends? in which case, surely the client knows already that Sally is doing this. If not, this gives an easy way into the discussion as you can just forward one of those emails to the client with suitable commentary/question. I wonder who previously issued those kind of edits and corrections etc.

    If the client has directed Sally to do this… there’s multiple potential reasons e.g. Sally wants broader experience so the client has given her “managing the freelancer” as a responsibility; client wants Sally to learn this work so that she (client) doesn’t have to rely on a freelancer in future, etc.

    If Sally is doing this unilaterally – I would speculate that she is trying to “show up” the freelancer. Possibly thinking that she (Sally) wants to do that work instead and demonstrate to the boss (OPs client) that she is suitable. Or wants to feel more important than she is. Or thinks the company’s money would be better spent elsewhere and they do not need OP.

    My gut feel is something nasty is going on, because it goes beyond the standard step of issuing corrections etc and Sally is trying to undermine OP and catch them out.

    1. Jellybeans*

      Yeah, a huge part of the dynamic which the LW isn’t acknowledging is that the LW is a freelancer who has been hired by a company, so the company is the client.

      Sally is an employee of the company, and LW is not, so Sally effectively IS the client, since her company is hiring LW’s freelancer skills.

      LW is acting like they’re rival colleagues or something but Sally is part of Client and LW isn’t.

      As a freelancer, one you give commissioned work to a client, that work belongs to them to do with as they like (obv in some cases, such as commissioning artists, there might be restrictions on usage rights).

      If one person at Client oversteps, that’s an internal problem for the company to figure out.

      LW needs to stop seeing Sally as an intruder, and start seeing Company as an overall entity (which includes everyone employee by Company) – either LW is okay with how Client does business, or not.

      1. Jellybeans*

        What I mean is: LW acts like Sally has some kind of unfair advantage because she’s in the office and LW isn’t in the office, but why on earth would LW be in the office of a company they’re not employed by?

        LW refers to themselves as “part time” and “remote” but they aren’t actually an employee at all.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          Oh that’s interesting because I didn’t read it that way at all, I thought those were merely factual statements to give the background why OP is “mostly remote” and to explain why the communication is mostly email. I thought the reason OP was so flummoxed about addressing it is because Sally’s behaviour/performance is naturally very removed from OP’s remit that they don’t feel it’s their place to address it.

      2. Snow Globe*

        While Sally is employed by Client, that doesn’t (necessarily) mean that Sally’s job in any way overlaps with the LW’s or that she has been given responsibility for managing the LW’s work. That is what the LW needs to clarify with the person they usually work with at Client – is Sally supposed to be involved? If so, to what extent? Then LW can determine if they are ok with working with Sally to that extent.

      4. Cj*

        it actually sounds to me like the OP should be an employee, not classified as a freelancer.

        they say if they work part-time, not that they are contracted for specific projects.

        They specify that they work remotely, and that isn’t how a true freelancer would word it. a freelancer doesn’t work remotely, they simply work from their own business location.

        It sounds to me like the client specifies the hours that they work, and have direction over their work. and even if the company isn’t supposed to have Direction Over their work, if they are allowing Sally to, then they are exercising control over their work.

    2. Somehow I Manage*

      I don’t know that I’d describe the situation as “nasty” necessarily, but it does give me pause. We don’t know Sally’s intentions, nor does LW. Maybe she’s eager and is trying to be more involved. Maybe she does have the intention of stepping in and taking over for a freelancer.

      I do think it is at least odd that the LW is getting information and instruction from Sally and there wasn’t some type of direct introduction from someone else in the client’s office between LW and Sally as a new point of contact with the business.

      LW, at the very least, I hope you’re billing appropriately for the extra time you’re having to spend working on changes and edits because of Sally’s involvement/interference.

    3. MsM*

      “If the client has directed Sally to do this… there’s multiple potential reasons”

      Sure, but the client should communicate clearly to LW that they’re doing that, no? If Sally wants to make big changes to existing processes, it’d be helpful to know if she is in fact the final word on that.

      1. Awkwardness*

        This whole discussion makes me aware that I am not always communicating as clearly with external contractors as a lot of people in this thread assume to be standard, mainly because the situation is so clear internally.

  12. Trick or Treatment*

    #2 (LinkedIn):
    Every company I’ve ever worked for had a social media policy, and I’ve always wondered if people really need to be told this basic stuff for social media that can be linked to their employer. But I guess this shows they do!

    1. English Rose*

      Yeah that’s what I was coming here to say. If social media is part of OP#2’s job, it would be well worth updating/creating a simple policy for social channels, emphasising visibility of comments/likes.

      I know that when I see something offensive on LI, I do often check which company the person works for, so these things can create reputational damage.

      1. The Unionizer Bunny*

        Yeah, like when they post “Employer advertises “competitive wages” but we make 10k below industry average, I have to wonder how experienced our new coworkers will be if they think our wages are adequate.” – offensive to new hires and creates reputational damage!

        Also enables people outside the employer-employee relationship to pressure their company into finally granting raises, which is protected by law. (The wording isn’t an explicit invitation to join anyone in concerted activity, but the topic – wages – makes it inherently concerted.) I haven’t come across any exception for “having conversations in public is part of their job description”, but for the company’s official social media account, I could see a legitimate interest in restricting posts to approved content.

    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      I’ve seen where the basic concept of “do not wear politically inflammatory clothing” or even “do not wear a campaign related item” to work, even when the person in question is frequently dealing with outside clients, needs to be explained.

      This isn’t an intern level, either. This is someone who should absolutely know and understand better. Its weaponized “oh but surely you don’t mean….”

    3. Bitte Meddler*

      There’s a guy in my industry with a lot of certs and a lot of connections, so when he sent me a “friend” request on LinkedIn, I accepted it. For years now, all of his posts have been, “Hey, Fabulous Company is hiring for Y-position!” or “Take advantage of the deep discount on Industry Conference; there will be a great lineup of speakers [link to conference].”

      And then, two weeks ago, he posted a racist, misogynistic, unhinged rant about presumed presidential nominee, Vice President Harris.

      And the number of my contacts who were in the comments agreeing and liking… Wow.

      I have never un-connected so many people on LinkedIn in my life.

      But I’ll remember who they are. And I will block them wherever and however I can from getting jobs.

      Have whatever political beliefs you want. But, holy shit, leave them out of the office and professional environments. Especially the vile, hateful ones. And it’s bonkers that anyone even has to say that.

      2. DCBreadBox*

        OP here: THANK YOU. What this colleague did was nowhere near that bad (he ‘liked’ a meme that was indirectly degrading a female candidate) but it tells me something disappointing about him.

  13. Awkwardness*

    #3: I am a bit confused. There is a difference of the employee trying to take your job (cutting you off of info, doing the work herself) or if she is trying to act as if she were your boss (redirecting your approach, telling you what to do). It will be helpful to be really clear about what is happening when talking to your client.

    Also, Sally is part of the company. I’m my understanding, this makes her another contract person at your client, but your client nonetheless.

    1. Zweisatz*

      Regading your last point: not necessarily. My company works with freelancers in different capacities and certainly would not want anyone to interact and more importantly instruct them because said employee might have no idea about the project. That would be money wasted for our company.

      Given the LW has a good relationship with the client I would definitely raise this directly. Even if this overeager employee was supposed to be involved, I’m sure the client would like to hear that a reliable and trusted contractor is thinking about quitting.

      1. Awkwardness*

        My company (…) would not want anyone to interact and more importantly instruct them because said employee might have no idea about the project.

        Sure. But wouldn’t this be on the company to resolve?
        If a introduction was made and not just the employee contacting LW out of the blue, I would assume that it is cleared internally that this employee is allowed to give LW directions.
        I like the suggested script to point out the behaviour even if Sally was a new person of contact.

        1. Snow Globe*

          I don’t think LW should assume that without clarification. If the LW were to follow Sally’s instructions and it turns out that Sally is not supposed to be involved ands the instructions were wrong, that could blow back on the LW.

        2. Observer*

          But wouldn’t this be on the company to resolve?

          Yes. And that’s why the first step is to clarify with the boss. If Sally is supposed to be doing this, the the LW is going to have to deal.

          But if Sally is doing this unilaterally and the boss does not realize, then the LW has a lot of standing to bring it up with the boss. Not in an accusatory way but “This is what’s happening and this is how it’s affecting my work.” And then the boss should deal with it.

          If a introduction was made and not just the employee contacting LW out of the blue, I would assume that it is cleared internally that this employee is allowed to give LW directions.

          Not at all. There are a lot of reasons why introductions would be made. And also many different levels on which the two might interact. Without more detail, it’s hard to say what that might look like, but for instance, there are only two people in my office that can sign off on certain work for our web site, but 4-5 others that can have conversations with the web master about the potential for certain changes. And if it looks good, then it still has to go through the sign off people.

          As for issuing corrections and finding “mistakes”? No, that’s at least as controlled as who gets to sign off on new work etc.

    2. Jellybeans*

      Yeah but Sally is still part of Client and PW isn’t.

      If LW is considering removing this client from their client roster because Sally is interfering in things she’s not qualified to do, then absolutely LW should speak to someone at Client. But ultimately Client calls the shots, and it’s very likely Client has assigned Sally as one of their employees to handle freelancers. If that’s the case, LW needs to decide whether to keep them on as a client or not.

      I’m a freelancer and I’ve dumped clients for interfering too much in the past.

      But the fact LW is framing this as “full time in-office worker trying to undermine part-time remote worker” is odd, since LW isn’t an employee at all.

      It might be more helpful for LW to reframe this as “how do I as a contractor handle an overstepping client?”

      1. Somehow I Manage*

        I think LW needs clarity. If Sally has been assigned and is really difficult to work with, that’s one part of the calculus. If Sally has been assigned and LW wasn’t informed, that’s also part of the calculus. And if Sally hasn’t been assigned and is just interjecting, that’s a third part.

        We don’t know for sure what Client did or didn’t do as it relates to Sally’s new involvement. Clarity on that will help solve the equation.

      2. LW3*

        Thanks to everyone for your comments about Sally. I should have been more clear in my message about her position in the company (but wrote it after a particularly frustrating day). The business is mostly staffed by freelancers, the majority of whom are remote and have their own areas of specialty. Sally is also freelance, but in a different area of the business to me. The company is small, and has a tiny office space at the moment. I was going into the office regularly until Sally started, but now I work from home because there’s not enough space with Sally, the admin person and the client (who owns the business). The reason I work from home is because I already have a dedicated office space set up, so it seemed easiest, and my hours are more sporadic.
        Sally was taken on to gain experience in a particular part of this business. For example, she is learning about Llama Grooming, because she has a related background. Whereas my specialty is how to build Llama habitats, in which she has no experience whatsoever. Yet she has somehow decided that she would also like to build Llama habitats, and has been trying to overrule my work and come up with her own solutions, as well as telling me how to do things. I have been patient with her, and even explained some of the Llama habitat building techniques, but it is starting to feel as though she would like to take over what I do, hence my email to Alison. I have had a conversation with my client, and we are looking at some different ways of working, but time will tell. I will send an update when I can, but I hope this clears things up as to her and my relative positions as freelancers.

        1. CB212*

          Oy. I’m not sure why she’s even on the emails between you and your client, then! I hope if she’s just taking on extra work by inserting herself into your projects, the client can firmly shut that down. If there’s normally a team of people on any discussion and she’s just mistaking that for ‘everyone contributes to the whole conversation,’ I hope your client can quietly correct that understanding. This sounds frustrating, undermining, and most of all like a huge waste of everyone’s time!

        2. Awkwardness*

          Hi LW, thanks for clarification! In this case my answer would have been different, as she is basically the same status as you with no “tighter” bonds to the client than you. And I agree in how this situation rubs you the wrong way.

    3. Awkwardness*

      Argh, I just realised that the last sentence might be misunderstood due to autocorrect.

      I wanted to say, that “in my understanding, this makes her another contact person at your client, but your client nonetheless.”
      Contact person, not contract person!

    4. Hyaline*

      I had the same reaction–trying to “take your job” or trying to manage you? Because the latter is really what I read as the issue in the letter, and is probably the best thing to focus on. Who was “managing” LW’s work before? As a freelancer, she might not prefer to think of it as being “managed” but obviously someone was assigning, vetting, and determining collaborations with the work…if this has actually changed to Sally’s role, that’s a fair move for the client to make, but it should be communicated to LW!

  14. Coyote River*

    LW1, I’ve often found productivity drops when working from home, both for myself and for those of my employees who are able to do their job remotely. This is why I personally have stopped working from home at all, and have done everything I can to encourage all of my employees to work in the office.

      1. Nodramalama*

        Mmmm I think thats very dependent on location. Where I am most employers have cracked down a lot of wfh.

      2. Coyote River*

        Quite the contrary, I’m very proud of my employees. Please note though that I said “encourage them to work in the office”, as opposed to “prohibit them from working at home”. The majority of our work needs to be done on site anyway, so it doesn’t come up very frequently.

    2. Susan*

      It’s probably true that some people struggle to focus when working from home, but I wouldn’t generalize that. For me, it’s clearly the opposite: I’m easily distracted by typical “office noise” – when only one person in the room is speaking loudly on the phone or having an extended loud conversation with someone else, I really struggle to focus on my own work (which mostly involves analyzing legal text, large amounts of numbers etc.) or to have a phone conversation/video call myself about a complicated topic. When I work from home, my day goes much smoother – and to be honest, I enjoy this type of “nerdy” work so much that I’m not easily distracted by other things in my home.

    3. Green great dragon*

      I find it varies. If I’m busy, I’ll get more done than I would in the office, especially if I use some of the commute time to start early. If it’s a quiet day, I’m more likely to distract myself. There are more busy days than quiet ones.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        This is a really good point. For all we know Clare deliberately structures her WFH days to coincide with lulls.

      2. MsM*

        Yeah, WFH only works for me when I’ve been working pretty much nonstop on something and it would interrupt my train of thought/flow to go into the office. Otherwise, I’m better off using the commute to put myself in a work mindset. But I’m well aware other people aren’t me.

    4. misspiggy*

      I’d love it if AAM could survey how we all measure productivity in different fields.

      For me, working in an office invariably produces lots of evidence of activity for bosses to track what I’m doing. But the work I do at home, using very different activity patterns, generates far more valuable results in quality and impact of output.

      1. Also-ADHD*

        This is a great point. Also lots of stuff people do in an office to look busy or kill time isn’t seen in the same light as actually getting time back at home, even though the latter has the benefit of energizing more employees and reducing burnout (both good for employers based on research).

        1. Nodramalama*

          Can we not act like there arent plenty of people, jobs and industries that struggle with a lot of working from home arrangements?

          My work was very wfh friendly and we figured out that it was significantly harder for juniors to learn and be appropriated supervised when they spent a significant amount of time wfh and/or their superviser was not in the same physical location. So we changed what we were doing.

      2. Coyote River*

        I’m an old-fashioned man. I think the best work is done on site, and I think it’s important for team cohesion. Plus, I think it’s important that I remain visible, which is why I ensure I’m always in the office myself.

        But, I will be retiring soon, and someone else will take over my company. Most likely my daughter. If they want to do things differently, that is their prerogative.

      3. Malarkey01*

        I was a HUGE WFH fan- I literally chaired the working group for my large organization and led an industry wide group to support and try to transition our workforces to virtual…. and after 4 years of thousands of companies conducting living labs we’re finding that there are some serious problems with large scale WFH. There are places and ways it can work, and tools and processes to improve it, but there are also a lot of places where WFH just isn’t going to work for certain employees, especially new ones, and we’ll see more and more employers pulling back on WFH.
        To my great disappointment

      4. Been There*

        I started a new job a couple of months ago where WFH is incredibly common. It’s been so hard to get to know those coworkers who don’t come to the office. As a result I have a much better working relationship with the coworkers I have seen face to face.
        Don’t underestimate the importance of social interactions, listening in on conversations happening around you or just running into someone in the office.

    6. Hyaline*

      Step one: Know your own working style.
      Step two: Do not apply it to everyone else in the world.

      Yes, you may work better in the office, but this is hugely variable! For me, the *kind* of work affects whether I work better at home, in the office, or in a third location. For truly deep work, I am terribly unproductive if I’m interrupted–and the office is really, really good at interruptions. I’d tank my productivity being in the office every day. You might see it as frivolous or unproductive to take my laptop to a coffee shop, but for deep work I get more done there in two hours than in an entire day in the office where I have to keep refocusing after interruptions.

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Your first paragraph is key. I’m very happy for everyone who is more productive in the office; you are welcome to do your work there! I just finished three days of in-office work that was incredibly unproductive because of the volume of interruptions I was getting, and am relishing being at home today.

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        To be fair, it may be that Coyote River does a job that is more difficult to do effectively from home or that their company has set up work from home in a way that is ineffective. I wouldn’t necessarily assume they are just assuming everybody else works like they do.

    7. Jeanine*

      I really don’t understand how people are less productive working from home. I have been working from home for 4 years now and I am the most productive I’ve ever been. But then I’m the type that doesn’t work from bed or the couch, I have to have a desk with a proper keyboard, big monitors and a good chair or I wouldn’t be able to work. But yeah no productivity problems here.

      1. Orv*

        I have an office so I’m probably only slightly more productive working from home — fewer interruptions, but the overall environment I work in is good either way. But that’s not the most common experience these days — most people work in open-plan offices or cube farms that are full of distractions.

  15. Punk*

    LW1: I would keep an ear out for signs that Claire has taken her kids out of Tuesday daycare.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      What the hell? There’s no indication of that here. Let’s not go down this road.

      1. Punk*

        Why not? Let’s not tell other commenters what thoughts to have. There is an indication: decreased productivity. I’d rather speculate that Claire is saving money and spending time with her kids than that her husband is abusing her during work hours.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          There is NOT decreased productivity. OP described it as “seemingly not as productive”. Note: seemingly. By the OP’s admission, Claire gets her work done and meets deadlines. There is no decreased productivity.

          I’m not telling you what thoughts you can or can’t have. Have all the thoughts you want. But I am saying that there is nothing—absolutely NOTHING—in LW’s letter to suggest that Claire has pulled her kids out of childcare (in fact, LW argues against this) so this is just errant speculation. Let’s stick to the facts as presented in the letter, as required by the commenting rules.

      2. ScruffyInternHerder*

        Yeah, because daycares are so interested in lessening the amount you pay (this is sarcasm font if its not obvious). Its definitely NOT a thing to have to pay for days and weeks that you don’t use.

        I agree with Peanut Hamper. This isn’t a great road to go down because it’s probably going to lead to nowhere for you, but if your employee finds out, well, I know if my employer started snooping in my business, they’d shortly not be my employer.

        1. Cardoons are delicious*

          I took Peanut Hamper’s comment to mean that it is not OK to suggest that Claire took her kids out of Tuesday daycare. It’s a wildly inappropriate hypothetical we have zero information about.

            1. Cardoons are delicious*

              That’s about what I thought you intended and I agree. We’ve seen so many comment threads where the moms can’t win (or women more broadly can’t win) and it’s never useful or productive….

        2. Punk*

          Huh? Daycares absolutely do charge you less if your two kids go from three scheduled days down to two.

          1. Goldfeesh*

            Not all of them. My coworker uses a local daycare that charges the same if her daughter is in it six days a week or three. It’s not like there is another licensed daycare in town to go to.

    2. Lily Potter*

      LW1 says explicitly that s/he’s confident that this isn’t an issue. Let’s believe them.

  16. Pam Adams*

    For #1, what’s her home work set-up? In my office, I have 3 monitors, a printer, a phone, an excellent set-up, and powerful internet. at home, I have a laptop and no extra monitors. This slows work down, even in the best of circumstances.

    1. Harper the Other One*

      Yep, this is a very good point. I have two monitors in office and just the laptop screen at home – my desk isn’t big enough for a secondary monitor although I’m hoping to take care of that soon! But in the meantime, there are certainly some tasks that are slower because I only have one screen.

      1. Just Me*

        linked in: it’s a social media platform…if you wouldn’t bother someone because you didn’t like the outfit they took a picture in on Instagram then don’t bother them because you don’t like the post they liked on linked in…sure, we can all say but what if the wrong people saw that, too, but once outside of the workplace people are allowed to have their own lives. As long as that outside life doesn’t interfere with one’s work (i.e. showing up to work drunk) it isn’t anyone else’s business.

        The training: I’ll be honest, I read this answer and thought, do they not realize in person trainings can also be recorded?! If the issue is discomfort with the platform and that platform is not also a significant part of the company’s culture them certainly asking to take it in person makes a lot of sense, but if the issue is the recording, likely means you’re going to be recorded in a different venue, so by creating a false issue you never solved your problem…and there may be important reasons for the training to be virtual…how far apart are participants? Is the location different than other meetings or work they may be expected to get don’t? As it’s for new hires, have they actually relocated to your state yet? Will troubleshooting outside of this event also be virtual and they need to be confident learning and interacting in this manner? I can’t say this training absolutely must be virtual, and of course there may be a virtual platform available at no additional cost to the company that the trainer may prefer, but I would personally recommend against saying you’d rather do it in person when what you really want is to not be recorded unless you really would prefer to be recorded in person.

        1. Jeanine*

          I agree. My social media is mine, and the only thing I don’t do is talk bad about the company I am currently working for. But other than that I am going to be myself. And it’s my business.

      2. Bitte Meddler*

        I have a teeny-tiny, sit-stand desk at home (it’s 27″ x 21″), and I have two monitors.

        One monitor is on a very sturdy arm that clamps to my desk; the other is on a side table next to my desk.

        When I scooch the monitor on the table alllllll the way to the edge of the table, it lines up directly next to the one mounted to my desk, which keeps me from having to crank my head to the left to look at it.

        With the laptop screen, I have three screens in total. This is the same setup I had the last time I worked in an office.

      3. I Have RBF*

        I work fully remote. My current employer sent me a laptop and a separate keyboard, mouse and monitor. I already had those things, so they are still in their boxes. But the point is, my employer set me up with a functional hardware arrangement, all I really had to provide is a desk and a chair, plus power and internet. My home office is as well equipped as my on-site desk had been, but with far, far fewer interruptions.

    2. Vaguely Saunters*

      I work mainly remotely from home. My company provided a second monitor, laptop, ergonomic desk and chair to employees during Covid.
      They also cut way back on office space and made main city locations all hot desks. Even permanent lockers were removed, there’s lockers but they only shut to your ID card during the day and spring open after 5 – so people can’t leave anything at the offices.

      They also halved the number of onsite support staff for equipment troubleshooting.

      End result- days in office have both commute time loss. You can’t keep the same desk so have to try different setups that might work with your laptop. It’s noisy and open plan, because coworkers are all speaking on their Zoom meetings from their hot desks. There’s minimal quiet workspace.
      Many, many staff say they’re more productive working from home. Office days are now more geared to workshops, networking, but are not good at all for quiet work.

      1. Mighty K*

        This sounds awful! And lockers that spring open at 5pm? Whaaaaat? So you get caught in a conversation or on the loo and now people can steal your stuff?

    3. nodramalama*

      i’m not sure if this could be used as argument to not work from home though. If their set up is making them less productive to the point where its noticable, maybe their set up doesn’t work. People with dodgy internet are probably less likely to successfully make a case wfh

      1. Somehow I Manage*

        I think the setup probably does have something to do with it. I’m in that same boat. But I think when the LW says that she meets deadlines, etc. it may be a case that “less productive” is OK on the WFH day. If deadlines aren’t being met, or there’s another business case that shows how the less productive day is problematic, it may not actually be a problem.

    4. Cathy*

      This. I will never be as productive working from home because I don’t have office space at home. My kitchen table just doesn’t cut it.

  17. Figaro*

    Re recording, maybe you could focus on the short notice and the fact you’re quite new, if that makes it worse? Would it be an option to say you think you’d give better, more comprehensive training if you make the video in a month?

    You could practice with a friend, ask them to record you, so you get used to it.

    It feels weird at first but it really is normal nowadays. And it will save you having to be present for every training session, or be bombarded with questions for months afterwards!

  18. Anglonemi*

    LW4 – sorry you’ve been put in this awkward position – could you perhaps record yourself delivering the training in short bursts when you rehearse the session so that a recording is available but it’s not “live” and you can redo if needed?
    It’s also worth bearing in mind that your manager might be trying to reduce your workload by having you record the training, without being aware of the additional emotional load – can you talk to them about an alternative?
    I was fine with being recorded until I was recorded and discovered a) how annoying my voice is, b) how often I say “like”, “um”, “OK”, “right” and “so” as fillers!
    My solution would have been to create short text guides with screenshots or images for trainees to refer back to, flowcharts for processes, and to create short videos as above but the initial time cost of this was unfeasible so I have to cringe my way through and hope the transcript is more killer than filler.

  19. Figaro*

    I wonder about this with LinkedIn. I work in reproductive healthcare advocacy and although I try to keep posts policy focused, professional in tone etc, I know a lot of people will always see abortion as “political,” even if I’m engaging with my professional networks about healthcare policy developments in our sector (just as people do working cancer legislation, asthma regulations, etc.)

    I am proud of my work and my networks but I haven’t always worked in this sector and I’m sure some of my contact feel it isn’t appropriate for LinkedIn. I do wonder how it might play out if I move into another sector. But right now, it’s literally my job and we are all encouraged to use LinkedIn this way to expand our presence, boost our profile with partners etc.

    1. I strive to Excel*

      I think a lot of it is going to be context dependent. There’s a chance someone *will* get their knickers in a twist over what you like – but they would probably be just as fussed about your actual work. Now if you start liking and posting a lot of stuff about foreign economic policy, that would come off different. Similarly, I’d be a little surprised to see people linking vaccine debate articles in my very finance-heavy LinkedIn.

      A lot of it boils down to “is this something you actively want to link to your name in a place where your boss and coworkers could see it”. And that does translate to “hey, did you know when you like a post it shows up in your connections’ feeds”? Because every social media website does things just a little differently, and people get caught off guard. Or sometimes have terrible judgement.

  20. Apex Mountain*

    For #4, If you’re just going to be recording a training, presumably you’re showing a screen or something while you’re talking over it, so you probably don’t need to have a camera on.

    Not sure if that makes a difference but to be blunt it would come off as kind of odd in many offices if you said you were too shy and nervous to do this. So maybe come up with a case of laryngitis or something but other than that I think you should just do it.

  21. I should really pick a name*

    Claire is a good worker — she gets her work done, meets deadlines, and is knowledgeable and personable

    From this, I take it that though Claire is less productive on WFH days, she is still sufficiently productive.
    If the work’s getting done and she’s a good employee, maybe think of it as a perk that she has a bit of an easier day once a week?
    Is there an actual impact from the reduced productivity on the WFH day?

  22. Don't You Call Me Lady*

    For me personally my productivity is affected less by whether I’m remote or in an office than a bunch of other things – did I sleep well, what’s on schedule for that day, family stuff going on, workload, general stress levels, etc.

    But you mention a potentially abusive husband, so if that’s the case I’m sure Claire has alot to deal with that’s naturally affecting her work if he’s also home

  23. Week Old Sourdough*

    Leave Claire alone! There is no problem here. She is getting work done on time and doing it well.

  24. TeenieBopper*

    “She’s a good employee who meets deadlines…”

    There’s your answer. Didn’t even need to write your letter.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Exactly. Op even said “seemingly not as productive as her days in the office” (emphasis mine). This is a perception problem on LW’s part, not a productivity problem on Claire’s part.

  25. Somehow I Manage*

    When I work from home, there are days when I feel like I’ve completed nothing, when in fact I’ve actually responded to handfuls of emails that have been waiting for me. Or I’ve had the opportunity to read a couple of articles that I’ve been holding off on. Or I can dedicate some time to something that is more difficult when I’m in the office because people stop by my office. So maybe my “to do” list isn’t as long on a WFH day, but there’s still accomplishment. Plus, I think when you balance out the actual working time on a WFH day versus an in-office day, you’re probably getting more actual work, even with laundry, dishes, a quick vacuum of a room, or even an errand or two. There are fewer interruptions, and you can actually dedicate more mental time to things. Or that’s at least my experience. So do I feel bad if I flip on the TV while I’m eating my lunch rather than powering through? Nope.

    I think that OP1 can very easily open the conversation with, “Here’s what I’m seeing… let’s discuss.” And then let the employee share whatever information she has to answer the question about the appearance of lack of productivity. It could very well be that she’s powering through a number of things that aren’t as obvious. It could be that she’s clearing off more minor things that actually allow her to be extremely productive the days she’s in the office. Who knows. It could also be that she’s feeling pressure from her husband to do housework on those days, and if she brings that up, maybe a change to her work setup would be helpful. But that’s only a topic if she offers it.

  26. 1-800-BrownCow*

    At my last company, I was able to go to a 4-day work week so I could have a 3-day weekend and be my with babies more. Although to do so, they had me reduce my hours to 32-hrs and adjusted my salary to reflect my reduced hours. The loss of salary was a bummer, but I accomplished so much more in both my home life and my work life having a 4-day work week and I was less stressed and happier all around. Despite all that, after a year I was getting pressure to come back to a 5-day work week. Not because of job performance issues, but because other people complained that it was unfair that I only worked 4 days and they worked 5. The only person on my team that didn’t complain was the only other woman, who had raised 2 kids herself, so she understand. The men on my team who were complaining, the ones with young kids at home, their wives were stay-at-home moms.

    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      My boss at my last job had twins last year (plus a 5 y.o.). After she came back to the office she did the same, working M-Th and taking F off. Only thing is, they still wanted her to work 40 hours a week so she would sign off for dinner and then sign back in after the kids were in bed and work for a couple more hours. I was pretty mad on her behalf that they were requiring that of her; she was extremely diligent and hard-working and they honestly could have gotten just as much work and productivity out of her if they’d said she could work 35 hours a week or even 32, but I guess maybe she didn’t want the pay cut.

  27. IReallyNeedAName*

    “Claire is a good worker — she gets her work done, meets deadlines, and is knowledgeable …”

    If she’s getting her work done and is meeting deadlines, then how is she not as productive on her WFH day? How is it causing a problem?

  28. CommanderBanana*

    Claire is a good worker — she gets her work done, meets deadlines

    ….so where is the problem?

  29. Anonymoose*

    LW2, I hear you. A former employee of mine actively likes and comments on posts that are pro-“women should stay home with the kids.” As a female manager, this is utterly astounding to me, and I can only say I’m very thankful that he’s a FORMER employee. Bullet dodged.

    1. ScruffyInternHerder*

      I’ve found its never surprising to me when 1 + 1 = 2 in my industry though. The same men who act as though I have no place in the industry like posts like this.

  30. blah*

    Another day, another AAM comment section not taking a LW at their word. LW1 has noticed a pattern where the employee is less productive, believe them! The question isn’t asking “am I looking too much into this,” it’s “what is a reasonable conversation I can have in order to look into what’s going on.” And the latter is what Alison answered!

    1. Clisby*

      We are taking the LW at her word: “Claire is a good worker — she gets her work done, meets deadlines, and is knowledgeable and personable. ” I think most people take her word for it that for whatever reason, she thinks Claire “seemingly” is less productive on Tuesdays. Maybe her reason for thinking is good, and maybe it’s not – she didn’t give even a single example of lack of productivity on Claire’s part. So it’s fair to ask, “What’s the actual problem here?” No point in the LW talking to Claire until she can clearly articulate what she means by less productive.

  31. blueberrygoneplaid*

    I found it odd that LW1 didn’t use their letter to point out a single instance or clear impact of Claire’s “seemingly” diminished productivity. Sure, let’s take LWs at their word and all, but not even a single mention of what exactly isn’t getting done? Weird.

  32. Having a Scrummy Week*

    LW 1

    I think we need to give grace to people who are working at home with their children. In an ideal world, they would have childcare around the clock to avoid distraction, but here in the real world, it’s quite unaffordable.

    Human beings aren’t productivity machines. We have good days and bad days, sometimes we are at 100% focus and other times we can barely give 25%. Unless your employee is slacking on deadlines, I would leave it alone.

    1. Tradd*

      The LW for 1 said the kids are in daycare. In any case, since the plague has gone away, many workplaces are back to requiring remote employees to have childcare, from everything I read here. This was a regular policy before the plague.

      1. Having a Scrummy Week*

        We and LW1 don’t know if they are really in daycare. Something else could be going on in Claire’s life that she doesn’t want to share. If she’s completing her work, the manager should respect her privacy.

        I have a colleague who has childcare but the child developed very severe medical issues that needed constant attention and doctor’s visits. Sometimes shit just sucks and we should give each other grace (which is my #1 work policy).

  33. Lily Potter*

    #1 – Someone mentioned this upthread but the topic didn’t get traction. Is Claire being paid a flat part-time salary for her three day week or is she being paid hourly? I think it really does make a difference. If she’s being paid hourly, it’s reasonable for her employer to expect output for every hour of payment. Claire doesn’t get to go into hyper-drive production mode on Mondays and Wednesdays and take Tuesdays off when she’s an hourly employee. That’s not how hourly work works. Salaried part-time is an unusual setup (though not unheard of) so it makes me think that Claire is probably paid hourly.

    There’s another part of the part-time aspect that people might not think about. When everyone works fulltime in an office, there’s usually a certain amount of company-blessed “kick back” time that happens. Most places I’ve worked in-office, this happens on Friday afternoons. Usually around 3 or so, people stop being work-productive and go into coast mode. They might do filing or clean off the desktop, or they might go sit in another person’s cube and gossip for a while, or they might have a beer in the breakroom. I’ve never had an employer get upset about this “lack of productivity” – it’s a couple of hours out of 40 and it’s not a bad thing for employees to be social with one another to a certain extent as the week winds down. Where Claire’s situation is different is that a) she’s “kicking back” one day out of three, not two hours out of forty, and b) her down time presumably involves laundry and not water cooler chat with co-workers. There is a difference, and I can see why her supervisor is concerned about it.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      “If she’s being paid hourly, it’s reasonable for her employer to expect output for every hour of payment. ”

      Hourly wages just means she isn’t salaried and is being paid specifically for the hours covered by her shift. It doesn’t say anything about productivity expectations any more than being salaried does.

      1. Lily Potter*

        If you are an hourly worker, you are paid for your time, not for your output or productivity. This is a hypothetical, but even if an hourly-paid Claire could get 20 hours’ worth of work output done in 16 hours on Monday and Wednesday, she would still only get paid for 16 hours. She doesn’t get to take a half day off on Tuesday and bill out 24 hours for her three day week because she was “more productive” on Monday and Wednesday.

        If she’s part-time salaried, it’s a totally different story. In that case, compensation is based on a work output, not billable time. LW#1’s concern about her drop in productivity could still be a concern (it’s one thing for a salaried employee to “work lightly” on occasion; one day out of every three seems a bit much) but it’s not a wage-and-hour concern.

        1. Isben Takes Tea*

          I’m full-time salaried non-exempt, and it’s very clear that I’m being paid for 40 hours a week. I can do some light time flexing within a pay period, but the rate of pay is still tied to an hour expectation. Overtime rules still kick in based on hours worked. I think you’re confusing exempt/non-exempt for salaried; they’re not the same thing.

    2. Peanut Hamper*

      It didn’t get traction because it isn’t relevant. She’s getting her work done and meeting deadlines. OP didn’t say she’s “kicking back” on that day, only that she’s “seemingly” not as productive. This is a perception problem on OP’s part. If OP had said she only gets half as much done, this would be an issue, but she didn’t say that.

  34. I should really pick a name*

    But she has mentioned to me on a couple of occasions about difficult times at home, citing behavior from her husband that I would say is unreasonable / bordering on being emotionally abusive — criticizing her, suggesting that she should be able to do more on the days she cares for the children, being unkind, etc.

    This feels like a bit of a non sequitur

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      I felt the same way. And even it weren’t a non sequitur (just a sequitur, I guess?) I don’t know how making Claire come into the office on all three days would address this.

    2. HaleyWrites*

      I think that’s actually the heart of the letter. Everything else is a smokescreen for “I’m worried about my employee when they work from home due to the concerning things I hear about their spouse.”

    3. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I don’t think it’s a non sequitur at all, actually. I read OP as being concerned that Claire is using her WFH day to appease her husband by getting various household tasks done so he has less to criticize on her childcare days. The cost to this is less productivity for Claire, which is why the OP is bringing it up in a workplace blog. The problem is that by saying nothing about this arrangement (even if Claire is completing all her work), it might feel like OP is enabling Claire’s appeasement efforts instead of supporting her in getting a better home situation.
      The other side, of course, is that OP micromanaging Claire’s work output is likely to be just another source of stress instead of an impetus to make some changes with her husband, so OP should probably be prepared to let this go.

      Context: I have a colleague in an abusive marriage which started with her husband being critical of her contribution to household chores. Efforts to manage it in my colleague’s case (by getting an outside cleaner) caused her husband to escalate to demands that she now use all her “extra free time” to clean out closets etc. If I’m not reading too much into this because of this background, I’m really sympathetic to OP. It’s difficult to watch a valued colleague having a hard time and even harder to figure out what you can do to make sure you aren’t either adding stress or enabling the situation.

  35. Red_Coat*

    As someone who structures their WFH days to be on purpose light on work (I clear my inboxes/weekly to do lists on Thursday so that I’m just handling things as they trickle in on Friday, for example), I don’t see the big deal? As long as she’s available/responding to messages, is it really that important which day of the week the work gets done?

  36. forks and marbles*

    #4 is your issue that you’re not ready to train new hires as a new hire yourself? That could be a legitimate concern.

    1. debra corrick-felts*

      I think it’s a totally legitimate concern! It’s super weird to me that people are focusing just on the video aspect and not that the letter writer is also a new employee. This has also happened to me before – asked to train someone 1) with no notice and 2) when there were more experienced people available – and it’s not a wise decision on a manager’s part.

  37. DCompliance*

    #1- Does she have enough work to do? I worked at a company for years that did not require me to work 40 hours a week and I had to sit in open office floor plan trying to look busy for at least 8 hours every week. If I asked for more work I was given an assignment like create a manual no one is going to read and no one asked for and will sit on a desk for two years while someone waits to redline it.

    It is hard to talk about that not all jobs require the hours we may think they do.

  38. toolegittoresign*

    LW1 — if the productivity for the week overall is a real problem, here’s a suggestion. A company I worked for asked that on WFH days we submit a work plan for ourselves in the morning and then before logging off for the day, report back with a status on what was listed in the work plan. This was nice because no one was telling us what we HAD to work on that day and, usually, if your work plan was reasonable and you mostly got it done, it was fine and our managers rarely said anything about it. If anything, it helped us hold ourselves accountable.

  39. Hamster Manager*

    #2 LinkedIn has a nifty feature where you can remove your connection to someone right from their objectionable post on the timeline feed (click the three dots in the upper right of the post). That’s what I do with people using LinkedIn for inflammatory politics, religion, or just plain old troublemaking, like people publicly attacking their former employers.

    I don’t know what professional weight LinkedIn really holds anymore, but for me it’s still very much an extension of the workplace, and I think it’s not smart to say things there you wouldn’t say to your boss.

  40. jstrainer*

    LW4 – I train the new hires at work and initially they wanted me to record them. I explained that part of the training is not only to get them up-to-speed on the job with a specific checklist of to-dos but also make connections with them as a potential mentor and help them feel comfortable in their role and at the company. Therefore with my training I take a more casual and relaxed approach encouraging questions through-out, making an occasional relevant side conversations to make the new hires feel more comfortable, and the like. Therefore, since I tailor my training to the audience, the recordings are not beneficial to future hires. Instead I offered to give them my more structured portion of the training (powerpoint presentation) and I provide them with a recap at the end including any to-dos. This satisfied what my manager wanted and the recordings were deemed unnecessary.

  41. Mytummyhurtsbutimbeingbraveaboutit*

    There should be a “craziest thing you saw on linkedin “ thread like the stories of people asleep

    1. DCBreadBox*

      OP here: honestly this one probably wouldn’t even make a top 20 list, but I love that idea and I also love your user name (though I’m sorry your tummy hurts).

  42. CallMeAl*

    There’s a decent chance that your reputation would take a lasting hit

    LW4, this. If your job is one that would reasonably require a) using Teams and b) collaboration, I would be very concerned about the strength of your reaction to this (“horrified”, “distress”, etc). I once managed an employee who could be described as “very, very shy,” and it definitely held her back. It made our check-ins very difficult, and really limited her relationships with her peers, (which was not *integral*, but would have made her work both easier and better). She was in a term-limited position, but I expect I would have had to let her go if she hadn’t been.

    You can, of course, decide that your reputation could weather that hit. But that should definitely be a consideration as you weigh your options.

  43. SusieQQ*

    LW4 – It could depend on your industry, but mine it is VERY common to be recorded via video conferencing software. The reason why could depend on a multitude of reasons: someone might want a reliable record of what happened. Or the presenter may need the information disseminated to different groups but doesn’t want to do the same presentation multiple times. Most commonly, people who couldn’t make the meeting for whatever reason just want a way to still be able to get to the content.

    All that is to say, I think you should maybe explore whether recording folks is normal for your office and/or industry. If it is, then maybe it’s worth questioning whether this is the right fit, or whether you want to work toward being comfortable with being recorded.

  44. Crencestre*

    LW1: Your mention of Claire’s descriptions of her husband’s behavior as “borderline abusive” raises a definite red flag. Abused people very often don’t disclose the full extent of their abuse in casual conversations with a supervisor (or anyone else who isn’t a social worker or clinician specifically trained to deal with domestic violence.)

    Without singling out Claire, can you find some pamphlets that list signs of domestic abuse and give phone numbers of resources that an abused person can contact for practical help? Leave some in the break-room and replenish the stock of them as necessary; Claire may not be the only person in your office to be at risk of abuse.

  45. CLC*

    I’ve never been in a situation where part time work is a thing, so that may or may not be a factor playing into this, but I’m wondering what “less productive” means and what the implications are. Is she still productive but just less so than she is at the office? Are things not getting done on time? I guess I would focus just more on the specific problem being less productive is causing and addressing it rather than a sort of general idea of being less productive.

  46. Freelance Librarian*

    For LW #4–I was also tasked with creating training videos for new outsource hires and I *hate* hearing my voice and being recorded. I get super flustered when having to speak and get lost frequently. The difference with me is that because I’m the default Super User on our system and had been around for a while, I was literally the only option to make these videos. I also am the voice of our phone system.

    What helped me a lot with both of those was 1) giving myself grace to mess up and re-record, 2) writing an outline or script so I didn’t get lost, and 3) letting go and reminding myself that *I* didn’t have to watch my videos back, someone else had to and at that point, I was just a voice and a mouse pointer.

    Good luck if you do end up doing the trainings!

  47. RagingADHD*

    #3, as a freelancer the dynamic between you and the client’s employees is entirely different than your relationship with a peer coworker. This is not an instance where talking to the annoying person directly is the right first step.

    You should first talk to your client, or the designated primary contact on your contract, about the fact that this employee with no direct relation to your work is causing problems. It’s their job to keep her in line.

  48. Ami*

    #4, it might help to mentally reframe this. It’s not nearly as big a deal as you’re thinking! Training new hires as a peer is not expected to be anywhere near as polished and formal as a session delivered by a professional trainer. You’re going to share your screen and walk them through the tasks they need to know how to do, talk about the system quirks and why things have to be done this way, and answer some questions. Doing this over a virtual meeting is going to be exactly like doing it in person, except you won’t have them peering over your shoulder. The recording will not become the Official Training Video Everyone Sees, it will be just another recorded meeting. How often do you go back and watch a recorded meeting that went on for half an hour, looking for the exact spot with the information you need to know? The new hires are not going to do that either; they’re going to ping you with questions because they’ll take five minutes to answer that way. It’s fully expected that your training sessions will basically be a meeting to take them over the basics, and you’ll spend the next couple weeks answering their followup questions, and maybe having a few more ad hoc meetings to talk them through problems or demonstrate again something they’re not quite getting.

    Additionally, asking to do the training in person might be a really big ask. If they want you to train these new hires virtually over Teams, they’re probably in a different location, or work virtually. If asking them to come in involves going back on promises that the position was fully remote, or dealing with scheduling and expensing travel, then that’s a lot of hassle that your boss is not going to be keen on for a reason that they likely feel shouldn’t be an issue.

    If you go to your boss saying that you don’t want to do this because you’re anxious about being recorded and you’re unfamiliar with Teams, they might let you off, but your standing with them is going to take a serious hit because these should be trivial issues. If you’re not familiar with Teams, then the solution is to get familiar with it. It’s a very common piece of software that many offices use frequently, and if your office uses it then you’ll expected to know it independently. Try it out, make sure you know where the record and screen share buttons are, and search “how to do X in Teams” if you need guidance. And as mentioned above, being recorded should not be looming so large in your mind, as recording virtual meetings is a pretty common practice that you’ll need to get used to. I’m not saying this to be mean, because I do understand that it’s not your fault if you’re anxious about something, and you can’t control how terrifying your anxiety makes it. But in the workplace, you’re going to be expected to work through this yourself and get the job done, and if you come to your boss and cite these reasons as blockers, you’re going to look less competent and less professional.

  49. VoiceOfNewHire*

    OP4, you seem to be stressing out about two different things at once:

    1) Having to give virtual training
    2) Having that training recorded

    I am a very shy person, but I currently run weekly 90 minute discussion sessions with our customers. I also periodically represent my company at virtual conferences, workshops, and webinars.

    I have done similar things to a more limited extent at previous jobs.

    Here’s what I’ve discovered:

    – the speaking in any of these forms is a lot easier if you’re speaking about something you know really well, have a strong opinion about, or both (I think your relative newness is causing extra stress for this reason)

    – you will make mistakes. you will misspeak. you will get stuff wrong. it will happen. some of it might be recorded. once you learn to accept that it gets a lot easier. If you realize them and own up to the mistakes at the time most people will be very understanding and sympathetic. It may make you more approachable and someone they trust more because you don’t think you’re incapable of screwing up

    3. Very few people like hearing their own recorded voice. I hate mine and try to pretend someone else is speaking if I have to review/watch a recording I made. I’ve heard big time actor say they can’t watch their own work because they hate the way they sound (sometimes look too, but usually sound). Ditto for musicians. So just accept that part and know it’s normal.

    So what I’d do us push back because you’re too new and don’t yet have a good enough handle on the work. I would only do this is you’ve been there less than 3-4 months, though. After that it’s harder to play the newbie card without damaging your position as a competent employee.

    I would also offer to provide some feedback on your new hire experience that someone else can incorporate into training. Part of the reason you were tasked to do this may have been because you’re new enough to remember the things that trip people up or don’t seem natural to newbies that longer term employees have already internalized as normal. By providing this feedback, you offer a way to have that perspective incorporated into the training without designing/giving the training yourself.

    Good luck!

  50. Nathan*

    LW4: I was in a somewhat similar situation. Not exactly comparable — I’d been with the role for a couple of years, so I did in fact have some seniority even though the other employees and I were at the same level. I fretted about it and day-of I thought the training went horribly. It was long, rambly, and it was basically a recording of me fumbling my way through my daily tasks in a way that I did not feel reflected well of my ability to do my job.

    Shockingly, people love it. New hires are told to watch it (I still apologize to each one for how unfocused it is and recommend they watch it at 1.5x or 2x speed) and I frequently get feedback that it’s extremely helpful.

    Here’s some things I did that I think made it useful:
    1. I decanted the work into a series of steps and I created a slide deck with a slide for each step. I think this framing resonated with a lot of people who felt like the work was structured but, being new, were having trouble articulating the structure of the work as precisely as I could.
    2. I provided hands-on demonstrations of me actually doing the work. While this was the most awkward part of the training for me (who likes having who-knows-how-many people look over their shoulder while they do their job?), it was valuable for people to actually watch someone accomplish the same tasks they will be performing. And I did not do it perfectly — there were stutters and small missteps along the way, which haunted me in the moment but I think reassured people that mistakes could be corrected in the moment without having to be a big deal.
    3. It was very Q&A focused. I told people to feel free to interrupt me with questions as they came up, which is not something I would usually recommend for a presentation. But as this was more of a training than a presentation, it wound up working well and in fact some of the most valuable parts of the training came about because someone had a question about something I just sort of assumed everyone knew.

    I hope the above is helpful, and I sincerely hope that, just like my experience, this training you’re dreading manages to become a positive memory for you in the future even if immediately afterward you’re cringing and thinking it was awful!

  51. Nom*

    On the topic of LinkedIn, i have found that it is VERY easy to like posts by accident when scrolling, especially on my phone.

  52. jojo*

    1. WFH Claire make sure Clair has the EAP number. And put stuff around the office on domestic abuse and how to get help. I think it sounds like that is her real concern. She mentions that Clair has mentioned her husband’s demands. The only other thing she can do is have Clair work in office all 3 days. And ensure her breaks are during times she can see other people on break.

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