I’m in trouble for not answering a midnight phone call … for a non-emergency “emergency”

by Alison Green on August 26, 2024

A reader writes:

I work freelance in an industry which is notorious for bad work-life balance. I have another job alongside my freelance work to top up my income. It’s seasonal, over a busy summer period for an organization that’s related to my freelance work, and I work 10 hours a week.

My role is an organizational/admin one, and a project had been getting into difficulties recently, with a lot of decisions being pushed back and then made last minute, and some very unclear communication. I am expected to be on call to a reasonable degree (or so I thought) over the summer, between 9 am and 9 pm, and this is with the understanding (I assumed) that I may well be out and about doing other things. There is nothing in my contract about extra renumeration for this, and my contract is very vague about my actual role and responsibilities (red flag, I know).

This past weekend there was a last-minute difficulty with a piece of equipment on Saturday, about 9:30 pm. I tried to help sort it until around 10:30 pm, but there was little I could do from a remote position, and around 11 pm I went to bed on the assumption that we could pick things up the next day, having heard nothing over work chat/phone call since 10:30.

It turns out that what I should have done is stayed awake for a phone call at 11:50 pm, which I am now in serious trouble for missing (because I was … asleep). A ten to midnight phone call, from someone I will refer to as Lady Macbeth. To clarify, this was about a piece of equipment — no one had died, no one was in the emergency room, and I’m not in a child protection role, so there is no way this was necessary. I put my phone on do not disturb at night and the only exceptions to that are immediate family and two very close friends.

The issue is now resolved, but I’m completely blindsided by how inappropriate it was. Lady Macbeth (LM henceforth) is a raging workaholic and expects everyone else to be — staff turnover among junior employees is very high, and I’m the only seasonal worker still here … from March.

My manager is in a work clique with LM and they are best pals (they’re both bad managers but LM is worse) so I’m very wary of approaching her about it. She’s almost definitely already heard about it from LM, as I know they gossip about staff members. HR is also in the work clique with them (it’s a gang of three in a small office) so no recourse there. There’s a lot of passive aggression and indirect exclusion of employees, but it’s all under a very nice facade so it can be tricky to spot.

I accept that perhaps I should have communicated my intention to turn in for the night but surely the phone call is still completely out of line? I’m considering handing in my notice as the culture is very unhealthy and it’s seasonal so drawing to a close anyway. Is there anything else I can/should do? I told my mum and she was flabbergasted, and the opinion of my housemates is that I should just quit (I’ve actually got an interview this afternoon for another part-time role where I won’t have to take work home).

Eh, I do think that if you’re in the middle of helping to sort out an equipment issue at night and you need to go sleep, ideally you’d say that so people know you’re no longer working on it and no longer available. It can just be a simple “I’m heading to sleep for the night but I’ll check back in tomorrow.”

They don’t have a claim on your sleeping hours and your on-call availability apparently was only set for 9-9, but when you’re actively engaged in troubleshooting a problem, it’s reasonable to expect you’ll tell them if you’re now done for the night.

That’s said, it’s also true that sometimes when it’s past 10:30 pm, sometimes people simply fall asleep, especially when conversation on an issue has fallen off.

Calling you at 11:50 pm (80 minutes past the last time there had been any communication) was out of line. Text or email to ask if you were available, sure. Calling, no.

Regardless, “in serious trouble” isn’t an appropriate response to any of this. At most it should be, “Hey, when we’re actively troubleshooting something, would you let us know if you’re about to be unavailable, so that we’re not assuming you’re still working on it?” Message delivered, expectations clarified, done. That should also be paired with, “And thanks for staying up to help with that as late as you did; I know you didn’t have to.”

So what does “in serious trouble” for missing the phone call mean? If it just means LM was crabby with you but nothing else is going to happen … well, that sounds consistent with what you already know about LM and not necessarily a big deal. On the other hand, if it means something like she’s implying her trust in you is broken, they’re rethinking your work for them, or anything along those lines, that would be a wild overreaction. But since your manager hasn’t spoken to you about it and you’re not sure you even want to raise it with her, I’m guessing it might be more the former than the latter? If so, you should just figure you already knew LM was a jerk with unrealistic expectations and this is more of the same, and just move on … while also considering being more of a stickler about being unavailable after 9 pm, per your contract.

However, that’s just for this incident. More broadly, this job sounds like a clusterfudge of problems, and your reaction is likely being colored by the fact that you have a bunch of other legitimate grievances (probably more than anyone should put up with for a 10-hour-a-week job). If you want to quit because this made you realize you just want to be done with dealing with them, go for it.

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{ 153 comments }

{ 153 comments… read them below }

    1. TracyXP*

      In some ways I really hate the cell phone. Now that we can carry it everywhere with us, we’re expected to always answer it. Completely unreasonable.

      I love the do not disturb. I’ve got it automatically set from 10pm to 6am.

      1. AnonInCanada*

        This 100%. What cellphones have done is raised expectations to levels of absurdity I have difficulty handling. Sorry, client: I am not going to drop everything to answer your beck and call. Especially off-hours. The work cell phone stays at work, and no one gets my personal number. Which is truly the only way to rein in those who think the world revolves around them.

        1. pandop*

          I heard on a radio programme about the home of at least one British Official in India who had a letter box into the bedroom, to receive urgent overnight dispatches. So for some people the work-life balance has always been dreadful.

      2. OMG! Bees!*

        Had a friend with the same sentiments and he started leaving his cell phone at home or in his car instead of carrying it everywhere. This was before he got married and had kids, so I don’t know if he still leaves it behind, but do not disturb is one of the better features (along with unknown numbers labeled “Scam Likely”)

    2. nnn*

      She says she puts it on do not disturb at night but also her contract has her on-call if she’s around from 9-9.

    3. Antilles*

      Because LM is a raging workaholic with ridiculous expectations.
      Whether OP’s phone was set on DND, rang but went unanswered, or completely turned off has *zero* relevance; LM would be ticked at OP for not being available regardless of the physical state of the cell phone.

    4. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I keep mine on do not disturb at night so that most things are silenced and my kid can still reach me in an emergency. Also my brother and my husband when he’s traveling. Before I had a cell phone I had a landline extension on my bedside table and that never went on do not disturb.

    6. Myrin*

      This is a case where it really doesn’t make any difference at all whether the phone was actually off or merely on Do not Disturb.

    7. What_the_What*

      The OP did…and …got in trouble for it. I mean that was the entire focus of the letter.

    8. Anon40something*

      My phone is my alarm clock. Since I can’t turn it off at night, I set it to DND or airplane mode

      1. Myrin*

        Tangent but I remember being astounded that with my old flip phone, you could turn it off but still have the alarm clock work, whereas with every smartphone I’ve ever had, that’s simply not been possible. I have a regular bedside/alarm clock so this doesn’t affect me anymore but I’m still puzzled by it.

        1. illuminate*

          Maybe the alarm ran off the secondary battery that most electronic devices use to keep time even when turned off? I’d love to figure out how that worked too.

        2. Nebula*

          I used to always have Huawei phones before their access to Google was restricted, and they could have the alarm go off when the phone was turned off. So clearly it is possible, it’s just that most major smartphone manufacturers don’t have it as a feature. I guess it’s not necessary since most people don’t ever turn their phone off.

      2. Boof*

        Me too! I keep mine on because I use it for all kinds of things that aren’t calls or work – including as an alarm clock for the morning (and a general clock if I wake up at night and am wondering how close I am to needing to wake up anyway, etc etc). So I plug it in and leave it on next to me.

    9. edda ed*

      Turning off the phone wouldn’t solve LW’s problem (phone on/off isn’t relevant to the problem at all). What’s your logic in thinking that it would?

  2. Feeling Feline*

    A slight tangent from this: as a customer for non-urgent stuff (think buying a bag of coffee beans online from artisan roaster), is it reasonable to request the sellers to not reply my emails outside of working hours as I’m pro healthy work-life balance, or is it me being over bearing?

    1. Workaholic*

      I think one is hard to judge, because maybe they *are* working their normal business hours. So much is outsourced or handled by offices overseas.

      1. Another Kristin*

        Yeah, you can just ignore them? Email is supposed to be an asynchronous form of communication, you can just ignore emails from the coffee roasters until you’re ready to answer them.

        If the problem is you’re getting notifications on your phone when you’re trying to relax in the evenings, you can always turn notifications off. I did this years ago and it’s great.

      2. Florence Reece*

        Or some folks just work odd hours! My friend does email-only customer service for a small distributor, answering questions about shipments and purchases. She’s part-time with a pretty flexible schedule, so she tends to work afternoons/evenings because that works best for her. She’s got a unicorn of a work setup, but still. I think most people responding to customer inquiries for businesses like that are working set hours or have some kind of flexibility.

        1. rebelwithmouseyhair*

          Yes, I have a client who always sends me work at the weekend or ten at night, because it’s for a project that he does on top of his day job. He doesn’t expect me to reply outside my working hours though. It does get a bit hairy if we have to speak on the phone, I have taken calls at 6pm on a Saturday while at the dog park because otherwise goodness knows when I could have spoken with him. Thing is, he never reproaches my lack of availability and he’s a great client, so I’ll accommodate him when possible.

    2. Aurion*

      I don’t think that’s necessary. Work-life balance doesn’t mean everyone uses standard business hours, a legitimate night owl may be answering your emails at 4 am and consider that a perfectly good and reasonable use of their time.

      Unless you’re closely interacting with the people in question and have a much more nuanced view of their working hours, I’d assume they can arrange their own schedule and leave it.

    3. A Library Person*

      I think the general rule of thumb on this is to note your own working hours either in the body of the email or in the signature as a way of normalizing the idea of sticking to communication within working hours, but ultimately it’s not really up to you when they respond. You can always include softening language in the email itself (“when you get a chance”, “when it’s available”, etc.) as a sort of nudge in that direction, or use a scheduling function to send the emails at a time you know falls within their working day.

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You have no idea what ‘working hours’ for them are. Maybe they work evenings or overnights because power for the roaster is less expensive. Maybe the customer service staff is in a different time zone.

    5. Jaydee*

      I don’t think you can request that they change how they manage their time or their emails. A great thing about email is that it’s asynchronous. You can send an email when it’s convenient for you, and the other person can reply when it’s convenient for them. But if you have ongoing relationships with these sellers, you can definitely make clear to them that 1) you don’t expect an immediate response to your emails, especially if they’re outside business hours for the seller, and 2) you won’t be responding to them outside your own business hours.

    6. Galvanic*

      Overbearing. You don’t know what their life schedule looks like (leave work early to pick up small children on the agreement they do an hour or two later after the child is asleep?) and you’re not the one to police it.

    7. Jaydee*

      I don’t think you can request that they change how they manage their time or their emails. A great thing about email is that it’s asynchronous. You can send an email when it’s convenient for you, and the other person can reply when it’s convenient for them. But if you have ongoing relationships with these sellers, you can definitely make clear to them that 1) you don’t expect an immediate response to your emails, especially if they’re outside business hours for the seller, and 2) you won’t be responding to them outside your own business hours.

    8. Bee*

      I think that’s definitely overbearing, especially if you’re a small-time customer who buys one bag a month and not like, a multi-location coffee shop who works with them a lot (where it might be fine to say “just FYI, this is never an emergency, no need to respond to me on nights/weekends if you don’t want to”). It might actually make their workflow harder or more complicated. As long as your emails don’t demand an immediate response, it’s up to them to manage their time as they see fit.

    9. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It’s not your job to manage the work/life balance of someone else’s employees. The only thing you can reasonably do as a customer is be a good one, i.e. not expecting an instantaneous response, or a response at 9am when you submitted your order at 10pm the previous day, etc.

      The only reason I’d ever bring up work/life balance with a company I was shopping at was if it was very clear that they were treating their employees terribly and I wanted them to know that they were losing a customer because of it. But even then I’d probably just stop shopping there without letting them know why.

    10. Paint N Drip*

      I’m someone who is sometimes the ‘artisan roaster’ and while I appreciate the language of customer communication to be relaxed and perhaps include ‘when you have time’ or similar, I can assure you I am answering in my ‘artisan roaster’ work schedule (which likely comes before/after regular work hours, which is an accepted part of artisanal creator life)

    11. ecnaseener*

      Yes, I think that would come across as overbearing if you’re making a request to set restrictions on their time. You can indicate that you’re in no rush, you can say something like “I know it’s probably outside your working hours so please don’t feel obligated to respond tonight,” but nothing along the lines of “please don’t respond during X times.” Not only could they be in a different time zone than you expect, they might just prefer to structure their time differently than you — you don’t get to tell them what’s best for their work-life balance.

    12. urguncle*

      If the communication is asynchronous (like email), there’s no reason to request anything. Your hours are yours and theirs are theirs. As long as nothing is time sensitive and you’re both planning ahead, you should just restrict notifications on your email app to your working hours, like through a focus status that’s native to iOS or settings within the app.

    13. GenX Enters the Chat*

      NO! Email is asynchronous. Don’t check your email if you don’t want to be bothered.

      2. hiraeth*

        Right, this. If you’re going to be disturbed by the sight of my email arriving after hours, don’t check your email after hours. I manage my schedule the way I do for good reasons, and asking me to remember when I’m allowed to email you and when I’m not is extra work on my plate. The joy of asynchronous communication is that I can email when I’m ready to, and you can read it when you’re ready to!

      3. Random Bystander*

        Absolutely agree–I know that with my work, I don’t work the same schedule as others, but there are times when I need to reach out to a co-worker who has access to the lookup for the info I need. So if she works 6am-2:30pm Monday-Friday, and I work 7am-5:30pm Tuesday through Friday and I come across something I need to send an email about at 3:30pm on Friday … I will go ahead and send the email then, knowing that she’s not going to see it at any time before 6am Monday, which means that I will not get an answer at any time before 7am Tuesday.

        The program (outlook) does ask me if I want to delay sending until 6am Monday, but I always choose to send it at that moment … it’s in *my* working hours, but sending it at any time on Monday would be outside my working hours (and I’m not entirely sure if it would send, since I do a full restart at the end of every work day, so I’m not even logged into the computer at all after I log out Friday until I return on Tuesday … I don’t care–I know when she’ll see it, I know when I can expect to get an answer, and I just move on to the next thing in the meantime.

    15. Elsie*

      That may be the time they set aside for answering emails. If you have a “pro healthy work-life balance”, then just don’t check your emails outside of your work hours. But other people have different work hours. As long as they aren’t demanding an action from you outside of your work hours, then fine.

    16. EA*

      I disagree; it’s up to you to control your push notifications or the times that you check email, which is 100% within your control.

      Trying to control other people’s working hours is definitely over bearing.

    17. Vincent Adultman’s assistant*

      That honestly seems pretty unnecessary and overbearing TBH. Like others have said you don’t know what *their* normal working hours are especially if time zone differences, outsourcing, etc are involved. Maybe they enjoy being workaholics pulling 90 hour weeks. Maybe that is truly what is necessary right now for that artisan coffee roaster to get through its first few years, IDK.

      So yeah, I’d just keep your eyes on your own paper for that scenario.

    18. Nonanon*

      Honestly, I’m pro including something in your email signature along the lines of “I do not expect emails outside of your working hours;” leaves room for 1. Different time zones, 2. Different definition of work/life balance, 3. Had a bunch of back-to-back emergencies and just could not check email until the middle of the night, etc. It will be taken different ways by different people, but if it’s in a signature, it looks more “standardized.”

      1. Mostly Managing*

        I regularly email someone who does this.
        She has a statement in her signature to the effect of “My working hours may not be your working hours. Please respond when it fits your schedule.”

        It’s great! She’s someone who regularly works weird hours (evenings, weekends, very early mornings) to fit her job around her other commitments, so emails from her always have unusual time stamps.

      2. Bast*

        There is an individual who I communicate with regularly who notes in her email signature that she works flexible hours, and may respond outside of standard business hours. She goes on to say that she highly respects your standard business hours, and does not expect you to respond outside of them. In my field, though, it isn’t exactly uncommon for someone to catch up on emails at 10:00 pm or Sunday evenings. There are plenty that maintain work-life boundaries and are strict Mon-Fri 9 to 5 type people, and absolutely will not reply outside of those hours, and just as many who will check email no matter where they are/what they are doing.

    19. Funko Pops Day*

      If you mean that you want to avoid being LM to these vendors, I think you can absolutely include a closing statement in an email like “No pressure to respond to this until your regular business hours, I’m just sending now so I don’t forget/because I had some down time/other vague ‘because it happened to be convenient to me’ statement.” I regularly mention in my Friday afternoon clear-the-deck emails to colleagues/peers at other orgs that I don’t expect to hear back until they have a chance to read the message on Monday to make it clear that no, they do not need to handle a 4:45 pm Friday request before that.

    20. Specks*

      It’s you being overbearing. It’s email, for god’s sake; if you don’t want to check it, just tell them you only check during work hours and to not expect a response. Please don’t try to control when other people actually send them, since that has zero effect on you.

      What looks like a “healthy work-life balance” to you is not what it looks like to other people. Those of us with small kids with flexible positions may want to take late afternoons off to get them from school or spend time after daycare, and evenings are much better for work, for example. People with health issues may need hours off during the day to attend medical appointments. Etc. I would be massively annoyed if someone I don’t even work for lectured me about sending them emails “after hours” (for them).

    21. GythaOgden*

      Just to add to the voices here. My mother is someone who thrives on activity and even well into her 70s she still does numerous things that look like work. She is just the kind of person who wasn’t made to sit still, and that also means she was there for us growing up even while she had a career as a headteacher. Both my mum and my dad have spent the last weekend running a horticultural show and the work that goes into planning it essentially starts just as the old one finishes.

      Some people are just built for it — and others like me prefer to take the scenic route, although I did have a second job for a while to gain a little bit more AP experience than I was otherwise getting in my day job, and which also helped me get into my current role, before the pandemic brought it to a screeching halt. My mum and dad being driven people have made life substantially easier for my sister and me, and I daren’t criticise them for that energy. Having had more needs than the average person of my background, I am in debt to my parents’ hard work.

      The other thing is that the people who enjoy working all hours aren’t here on the forums nattering; they’re getting on with the job. A lot of people work very long hours to hold society and its infrastructure together and we wouldn’t have what we have now without those people. It takes all sorts to create what we take for granted, and for people who live to work that /is/ their work-life balance.

      If you wouldn’t behave like Lady Macbeth does in this story, then don’t do the opposite either — don’t behave paternalistically towards others.

    22. Somehow I Manage*

      I wouldn’t do that. I think you can definitely point out in your message that you don’t expect an immediate response, but telling someone when they should respond assumes a lot. You don’t know what their work hours are. Perhaps the only time they can respond to emails is at 9pm because they’re roasting coffee during usual business hours.

    23. w*

      No but a signature that says what hours to expect *responses* from you to emails received would be fine.

    25. Ally McBeal*

      That is overbearing. Email is explicitly asynchronous. Just turn off your notifications outside of working hours, or move your email app to Home Screen #4 so you don’t see the little red notification alert.

    26. Alex*

      That strikes me as a very strange thing to do. Unless you know these people personally how would you know what best time for them to respond to emails to promote their own healthy work life balance?

    27. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I know I used to end any emails I sent to my kids’ teachers with “Hope to hear from you whenever you’re back in the classroom.”
      I had several teachers mention that they appreciated it.

    28. Belle of the Midwest*

      The dean in my division (I’m in higher education) has a tagline on her email signature that says, “I respect that your working hours may vary from my own.” Which is her way of saying that while she might send messages out at odd times, she doesn’t expect people to respond immediately if they are in a different time zone or work a different shift.

    29. Polyhymnia O’Keefe*

      I had someone request this of me (sort of). I work in the performing arts, and at one organization, we would have all-hands rehearsal weekends about 5 times a year. Hours of production meetings, people in from out of town, etc. As you would expect, a LOT of to-do and follow-up items came from these meetings. And, as you would also expect, many people took the Monday afterward off. I didn’t — I worked my hours around on another day. As the production manager, it was my job to follow up with everyone, and it was easiest to do it as soon as possible, so I would always send a flurry of emails on Monday.

      One person asked me if I could avoid sending emails on Monday, since he was trying to take some time off before the week’s rehearsals started up again. I said no, but he was welcome to ignore anything that came from me until the next day or a better time.

      It wasn’t particularly offensive or anything that he asked, but it definitely came across as tone-deaf (and I still remember the request all these years later). My responsibility is to manage my work schedule, not his.

    30. Lady Blerd*

      I don’t want to add to the pile on but yes, that is a reach. What you describe is only an issue if you have a device that sends you email notifications outside of your work hours, like having a work phone. Otherwise I don’t see how your sellers emailing you outside of work hours is an issue as you shouldn’t be seeing them, unless you feel some kind of pressure or guilt from seeing the emails you “missed” when you logged off for the day.

    31. anon24*

      Everyone has given you great responses, but I just want to point out that you telling people to not respond to you outside of your work hours because you are pro work-life balance could come across as disrespectful of their work-life balance. I work night shift. I sometimes email day shifters at 1 am, because it is my 1pm. I certainly don’t expect a response from anyone until they come into work, that’s why I emailed and didn’t call. You telling me to only email you during your work hours would mean I have to email you when I’m supposed to be off shift and home sleeping/relaxing and would come across as disrespectful of MY personal work-life balance.

    33. Lizzianna*

      I wouldn’t. I own a small business, and work full time as a government employee. I *can’t* respond to emails about my small business during my government working hours, as that would be a major ethics issue. Generally, I prefer to trust individuals to know their boundaries, especially if it’s someone I have very little context or information about.

    34. SpaceySteph*

      When I communicate directly with people on matters that are personal for me and professional for them (which I think is what you’re asking here?), I will sometimes acknowledge that I know I am contacting outside normal business hours and do not expect a response before their regularly scheduled business hours. It makes sense that I email after business hours when its something personal for me, and also that they wait to answer me until the next business day.

      However, this is usually only with people I have a rapport and enough knowledge of their work tendencies to think they will be inconveniencing themselves to answer me after hours for the sake of being prompt. I think if you’re contacting a more generic customer support mailbox, you can assume that either they are either staffing multiple shifts for availability or in their working hours and I wouldn’t mention it.

    35. Jellybeans*

      Yes, it’s really overbearing and personally I’d find it very arrogant – the assumption that lowly vendors need permission from the almighty customer.

      Business emails outwith working hours are an issue because of the power dynamic. If your boss sends you an email late at night there’s pressure to reply asap because your boss has power over you. As customer, the power dynamic is entirely in your favour. The person with the power shouldn’t be dictating the communication.

      I know I’d feel stressed if a customer told me to only answer during 9am-5pm because that would be disruptive to my own schedule, and I’d feel pressured to go along with it for fear of losing a customer.

  3. WillowSunstar*

    I turn my phone to DND at night, and only certain close family members (like parents) are exceptions. I wouldn’t take a job where I’d expected to be awake after 11 PM, I have enough trouble getting quality sleep as it is.

  4. Dawn*

    It’s a ten hour job and they’re possibly not even paying you legally if I interpreted your description of the circumstances right, I normally don’t recommend just walking away but in this case, it’s not worth the grief to stick around. They’re making their life miserable for practically nothing and you’re not obligated to put up with it.

    1. I.T. Phone Home*

      Yeah, I was confused by this as well. If I’m reading the letter correctly, this didn’t happen while freelancing but rather at a permanent job where the letter writer is a part-time employee, not a contractor. I’m pretty sure there’s no such thing as a 10 hour-per-week salaried/exempt employee. If all that is correct, LW should be logging their hours and paid their hourly rate for all work, including when they’re reengaged afterhours.

      1. OMG! Bees!*

        Reminds me of when I was younger, hourly IT but not on-call and made the mistake to accept a couple direct after hours calls because I gave a client my cell phone (never again!)

      2. Storm in a teacup*

        The employee wrote ‘mum’ and ‘housemates’. 100% they’re a fellow Brit so US legalities around working hours don’t apply.
        But there may well be other rules governing her work.
        LW is just sounds like you work for the 3 witches rather than Lady MacBeth and if you can afford to, leave. I assume if it’s seasonal you probably don’t need to give too much notice.

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Does OP meet the definition of “on call”?
      They expect OP to be available from 9 to 9.
      They contact OP during those hours.
      They get upset if OP is not available during any period in those hours.
      Therefore: OP is an an on call employee,incorrectly classified as part time, is owed wages by the company which is acting illegally.
      -syllogism based on 8 years of reading AAM. How close am I? thanks!

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        She’s not obligated to be paid for the time she’s on-call but not doing work for them. If she’s a non-exempt employee, she needs to be paid for the time she spends answering calls and doing work, but she doesn’t need to be paid for simply being available as long as she’s free to spend that time doing other things (which she says she is — she says “this is with the understanding that I may well be out and about doing other things”).

        1. Dave?*

          What about the waiting in the response time? During a regular work day even if you are sitting at your desk not assigned tasks you are paid because you are waiting to engage. If this person did answer the midnight call would it have been reasonable to bill from 9:30 until the midnight call ended?

      2. Phony Genius*

        The LW says there’s nothing in their contract about remuneration for the being on call. I have no idea what the law says about freelancers and on-call work. Are they legally entitled to be paid for this, even if not explicitly spelled out in the contract?

        1. Phony Genius*

          Oh, Alison posted an answer while I was writing my question. Never mind then, I got my answer.

    3. Nicosloanica*

      I’m never clear how “on call” hours are treated and billed but somehow I thought they didn’t count against overtime rules. Not sure if you only get paid if you’re actually called, unfortunately (and I know folks in the medical field that have what seem like insane (to me) on-call requirements)

      1. Petty_Boop*

        It varies. My son is paid a “premium” on the nights he’s on call, whether called in or not. If he’s called in and actually goes to work, he then bills the time he’s there, as well. But, his on call requires he not be more than a certain distance (I want to say 50 miles) away from the work site so he can respond relatively promptly.

        On the other hand, my daughter is on call 24/7/365 and her salary is higher than market, but she gets nothing “additional” if she’s called in, as she’s salaried and doesn’t get paid by the hour.

        1. Nicosloanica*

          The people I know can’t leave the area and can’t drink (or do something like go see a movie that might cause them to miss the call – anything they couldn’t leave immediately at the drop of a hat) so it really seems to me like it should be paid, but they aren’t. I guess there’s probably a medical exception to whatever overtime rules exist anyway.

          1. Tau*

            To be fair, treating on-call as actual work time isn’t quite right either, since you are not actively working most of the time. The way it’s handled where I am (and I am in a country with *very* strong employee protection laws) is that outside your regular working hours you get paid a small amount per hour – about half of minimum wage for me – which is basically payment for the inconvenience caused by being on call (the things you mention, although at least since I can answer calls remotely I can leave the area. Have to be able to answer my phone within five minutes at all times and drop everything to start investigating, though.) Any time where you are actually *working* due to being called in gets treated as regular working time. This means time off in lieu for the time put in during the work week, *and* it means that the clock for the legal minimum period between work shifts resets at the moment I’m called in – meaning that if I’m called in the middle of the night, I might not have to start working again until the next afternoon and don’t have to make that time up later. I think some industries swing exemptions to that 11 hour rule, but mine doesn’t.

            Honestly, as long as incidents aren’t too frequent and you’re someone who can comfortably live with those restrictions for a week here and there it’s a nice gig, since even a small hourly payment adds up when it’s 16 hours a weekday and 24 on weekends. I’d be pretty resentful to have to do it unpaid or without a clear schedule of when I’m on and off, though.

            1. Random Bystander*

              I work health-care adjacent and the time clock is set up with codes for the clinical people as well as non-clinical. For the clinical people who are on call, I’ve noticed that there is a way to tag the time as “on-call–available” or “on call–called” or something like that (I know the available, not sure of the other one’s exact wording). I don’t know more than that, but the fact that it’s entered into the time clock program suggests that there’s some kind of payment involved for the on-call–available time (this being in the US).

          2. Disappointed Australien*

            A lot of it comes down to how reasonable the employer is and how strong the union(s) are.

            In my current (well salaried) role I get an on call allowance of a few hundred dollars a month because I’m expected to answer the phone no matter what (I have to negotiate if I will be out of contact when I am on holiday). I also get TOIL/work 1800 hours/year. Technically we can’t drink or leave the area, but in practice we’re expected to be reasonable about it (having a reasonable employer makes life easier for everyone).

            But in the 1980’s I’ve been forced to carry a pager back before cellphones and that didn’t come with extra pay or any acknowledgement of overtime. That was a learning experience.

      2. Reality.Bites*

        One place I worked years ago had a pager that certain IT employees would carry in rotation, and were paid something like $25 for the week they had it. After hours calls were rare/nonexistent, so they were all happy to carry it.

        (Obviously this was a long time ago. When pagers were around, $25 went a lot further)

      3. Orv*

        I used to work a job where I was on call 24×7. I wasn’t paid anything extra to be on call, but if someone called me the clock started then and didn’t end until I’d finished dealing with the issue.

    4. bamcheeks*

      Going by “contract” and “my mum” it’s quite likely LW isn’t in the US, in which case exempt / non-exempt is unlikely to be how their employment law works.

      1. Dawn*

        I figured that, but also, worker protections are generally only more robust outside of America, rather than less so. To the best of my knowledge, in the UK and in Australia, your employer is still obligated to pay you at least minimum wage for any hours you spend working – which taking work calls qualifies as – which sounds like it might not be happening here. Regardless of what your contract says, you can’t waive your legal right to be paid for your work.

        2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

          > in the UK and in Australia, your employer is still obligated to pay you at least minimum wage for any hours you spend working

          For the UK at least, the application of this is that the pay gets *averaged* across the amount of hours (in a reference period) and cannot go below minimum wage. So if you work 10 hours a week and the pay for those hours is fairly good… an additional couple of hours could be unpaid and still average out to more than minimum wage and it would be allowable. Of course this means that for jobs already paying minimum wage there cannot be any “unpaid” hours (as that would take the average below, by definition).

          1. Nebula*

            Yes, this strikes me as one of those situations where the organisation is being tight and only paying someone for ten hours a week, but in practice that person is working a lot more. To me it sounds a lot like LW is working in the arts (theatre?) but that’s just me bringing my own prejudices to this, I realise it could be many industries (sadly). Anyway, as long as LW’s pay averaging out as above minimum wage then yes, legally they’re in the clear, but to be honest this sounds like such a mess it’s entirely possible LW’s hourly wage is dipping below that.

            LW, please keep track of how many hours you are actually working, and how much you’re getting paid per hour. If you are in the UK, and it does turn out that you’re being paid below minimum wage, call Acas and they can advise you on how to get the money you’re owed.

          2. Storm in a teacup*

            When I worked in the NHS I got a bit extra in my salary to cover remote on call duties a few times a year. Those on site were definitely paid for their actual hours.
            If I ever needed to answer a call then I got time back in lieu.
            On the very rare occasion I had to come in I got paid for my time.

            1. Storm in a teacup*

              To add, our admins didn’t do on calls unless our fridge or freezers went down in which case they’d get time in lieu or paid depending on what was required. They never got a stipend as generally they didn’t have an on call commitment

        3. bamcheeks*

          Speaking from the UK, there’s nothing about this that would strike me as obviously illegal, so I’ve be interested to know what you think would be! We broadly have stronger protections than in the US, but IMO they’re a lot less focussed on defining working time/non-working time because that’s usually defined in the contract.

          1. Dawn*

            Mostly that, depending on how you read it, the OP doesn’t seem to be actually being paid for the time that they are spending on the phone. But I think Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (thanks for that name) laid it out a bit clearer than my own understanding; I was not aware of the “averaged pay” portion of that law.

    5. PhD survivor*

      I was also confused, the OP says she is a freelancer but she is being managed like an employee. I thought based on Alison’s previous posts that it is not legal to treat a freelancer like an employee

      1. sparkle emoji*

        LW might be managed more like an employee than a freelance contractor, but the actual legal details of the pay, hours, etc. don’t seem like they break any specific rules that would be the determining factor here.

        1. amoeba*

          Yup, she’s working part time for the company in addition to her freelance work in the same field!

  5. Former Lab Rat*

    I was on the call list for our lab freezers. If one of those went down it was a true emergency and I had to go in. [Why do they always wait until 2am to die??] I could understand other situations like that – cold food storage goes down in a grocery store for instance. But the LW seems to say this was not a critical piece of equipment that needed to operate overnight. Sounds like a workplace to say farewell I’m leaving.

      1. AFac*

        I had a CO detector die once while I was on vacation. Came back to beeping, which is just what you want after stumbling in the doors after a too-long plane flight. It took me a frantic 15 min to figure out which detector needed help, that it wasn’t because there was high CO levels, and that it was the end-of-life signal. It took me another 15 min to manage to open the battery cover and take the battery out to stop the beeping.

        1. Indolent Libertine*

          We dealt with a dead CO detector in an Airbnb we stayed in some years ago. Of course this was in the wee hours of the morning after a trans continental plane flight. And of course we first assumed that it was the smoke detector, and it took us quite some time to find that, and then we did find it, and put in a fresh battery, and there was still beeping. So we took the battery out of the smoke detector all together. Still beeping. At this point we’re looking in lamps and light fixtures, and inside desk drawers, and just desperately trying to figure out where it could possibly be coming from! Finally, we figure out that it’s coming from the space between the refrigerator and the cabinet right next to it. The CO detector is on the floor, way in the back. We scoop it out with a broom handle. Open it up and install a fresh battery. And… Still beeping! Because it wasn’t the dead battery signal, it was the end of life signal. Arrrrgh!

          1. le sigh*

            fter a move, I heard a faint beeping coming from … somewhere. And I only heard it at night while trying to fall asleep in my bedroom. At first I thought it was the place next door. Then I realized it was probably coming from in my house. I changed the batteries in every detector in the house. Still the beeping. Finally after a week of struggling to sleep at night, I found it — buried deep in a box in the corner of the basement was an old CO detector with the battery still in.

            I was not a huge fan of “Friends,” but the one episode in which Phoebe is awake all night and attacks her malfunctioning smoke detector is the most relatable episode ever made.

      2. Ginger Cat Lady*

        Had an electrician tell me once smoke detectors tend to die at night because batteries drain faster at cold temperatures, so the odds they’d hit a low were higher at cold temps.
        And I’ve noticed ever since then that mine also tend to die in the winter. When our ladder is under a tarp and likely also some snow and ice.

        1. Freya*

          There’s a Thing in some parts of Australia, to check your smoke detectors and change the batteries on or around April Fools Day, before our winter.

      1. sagewhiz*

        Aha! I had the exact same peeve. As did my daughter-in-law when the damn thing went off at 2a.m. while my son was hospitalized. She googled, discovered it has to do with the temperature change that time of night affecting “dying” batteries. Doesn’t make it any less aggravating, or not make us feel they’re just evil.

      2. A_Jessica*

        Like printers can smell a tight deadline; the alarms & freezers know when they’re caretakers are sleeping! LOL

    3. lost academic*

      Building electrical work is often done off-hours to avoid disruptions but it can mean unexpected surges can take out equipment that’s been around a long time. Most labs I worked in (in academia) didn’t have the freezers on surge protection, or on the emergency generator wired outlets, much less on the kind of backup power that they might need in such an event (expensive at the time).

    4. Former academic*

      I believe my old building had one where it was eventually figured out that the freezer wasn’t on a dedicated circuit but shared one with an outlet that was regularly used for floor polishing a major section of hallway, and when the overnight cleaning staff turned on the machine it would disrupt the power in a way that turned off the freezer. It was INCREDIBLY hard to diagnose because no one thought about the things plugged in to the other side of the wall.

  6. ChemistryChick*

    Nothing to offer other than I’m on Team Quit Now. Don’t stress about this toxic mess of a workplace anymore.

    1. It’s A Butternut Squash*

      I find the “quit now” comments are so unhelpful. For most people quitting their job is going to create a new, much larger source of stress. We have no idea what is keeping her there (hours, pay, skill building, the fact that the job market is currently crap, etc.) and this seems like something that could very well blow over by next week. Attempting to normalize quitting your job every time management does something crappy is not helpful.

      1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        You could at least read the letter before commenting. LW themselves brought up the idea of quitting. People agreeing with that are not being heartless and unhelpful. Stop the fanfic.

        Normalizing not putting up with crap is *very helpful*. People could maybe even form unions instead of quitting.

  7. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    this latest incident is just the symptom of the underlying problem. You are focusing on this but the real problem is this place is a hot mess. It’s the end of the season anyway, so you could just ride it out. Then decline to come back for another season. Or you could just hand in your resignation now if you can handle going without the income.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Facts. These crazy people found each and created a work cult.
      They bring in people who either get in line or get the hell out.
      If they hadn’t met, they would each be a little annoying fish in a big pond, “this one manager who…” but like Leopold and Loeb and Smith and Hickock, they found themselves together in a small pond and turned it into a slime pit of Clique Cult.

      1. Nicosloanica*

        Yes, if OP’s summary of the situation is correct, their problem is not this specific incident but the way leadership is feeding off each other / creating an unhealthy dynamic with employees, which is very unlikely to change in my experience.

    2. sparkle emoji*

      Yep, there are other part time roles that won’t require on call time or working with people who drive you batty. Don’t stick it out with Lady MacBeth.

  8. Alan*

    This reminds me of the pre-cell days when our home phone was on my wife’s side of the bed. I used to tell people that if they called me in the middle of the night they would have to talk to her first, and they should be prepared to hear some colorful vocabulary :-).

    1. Debby*

      This also reminds of the land line days-thank goodness for turning off the ringer and for answering machines. Even back in those days people expected you to be by the phone and to answer. When I did call back, I would be questioned as to what I was doing and why I didn’t answer when they called-and this wasn’t for work, this was family!

    2. Reality.Bites*

      My parents had a phone on each side of the bed. This was post retirement, so not work related, but they were both people who spent a lot of their at-home time in bed for watching TV or reading, rather than sitting, and of a generation when phone was the only way you contacted people.

  9. Ann O'Nemity*

    A 10-hour a week job that expects you to be on-call from 9am to 9pm, AND puts you in serious trouble for not making yourself available from 9pm – midnight (or later?!) – this is a huge red flag. Is this even legal? If they’re requiring a prompt response, they should be paying you to be on call.

    1. New laptop who dis*

      Yeah. Quit, quit, quit.

      If a company wants someone to be waiting around 12 hours a day to do “just in time” work, they should hire a salaried person to work full time. You can’t pay part time prices for full/over time coverage.

    2. Hannah Lee*

      Yeah, this whole set up has something out of whack.

      Like, if LW was offering their services to the public as a “I’m your 24 x 7 responder to xyz kinds of emergencies” being hired for both primary expertise in managing those kinds of emergencies AND the 24 x 7 availability AND being paid an agreed to hourly or fixed monthly rate that reflects the value of that service, sure then it might make sense for the client to expect them to be available. Or if LW was a FT or permanent employee whose primary responsibility is 24 x 7 availability/functionality of that piece of equipment and running of that process, yeah, sure, fine.

      But LW is neither of those things. They say “my role is an organizational/admin one” and even though the roles & responsibilities aren’t well defined, it sounds like they are not the key driver of this process or THE point person to make sure all aspects of it run well. (and it would be kind of silly for a company to hire someone to do those things for only 10 hours a week, and hours that don’t typically overlap with this supposed super important process at that) LM might be a difficult person to work with, but it sounds like the whole company is poorly run, creating unnecessary problems with bad planning, decision making in many different areas.

      LW, you can find much much better, less stressful things to do with those 10 hours a week (plus on call time). And I’m willing to bet there is something else you can do that would help you make ends meet or even help you grow your freelance business so you don’t need to piece together part time jobs any more.

      Add me to the “please quit” chorus. No need to flounce, or make a big point in your exit. Just a bland and professional “please accept my resignation, my last day will be xyz”

    3. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

      I would have to get an insane hourly rate to work 10 random hours out of 84 (or more, apparently) per week.

  10. Morgan Proctor*

    No, sorry, if you’re expected to be “on call” from 9 to 9, then you don’t need to tell anyone you’re going to bed (or doing anything else) beginning at 9:01. Obviously the LW was not “working on” a problem with a piece of physical equipment they don’t have any sort of access to. Let’s not normalize this kind of behavior by even suggesting that the LW needed to let anyone know they were going to bed at midnight on a Saturday. Absurd!!!

  11. Marshmallows*

    If you work with equipment sometimes weird hours is a way of life. That said, it should be clear what the bounds of your on call arrangement is and those bounds should be respected.

    But I agree with Allison that a team decision and communication to stop working on it should’ve occurred.

    1. MissMeghan*

      I agree with this. I also think this might be a moment to professionally express the need for clear procedures, as this soft everyone’s always kind of working and everything is always kind of urgent workplace inevitably leads to misunderstood priorities and true exigent circumstances getting lost in the noise.

  12. Nicosloanica*

    I’ve had trouble handling these types of things as a junior employee myself. “Well, it seems like there’s no urgency to getting this done and we can fix it just as easily tomorrow versus tonight, so I’d like to stop engaging with this now and reclaim my evening” can be a weird message to deliver if the other person, perhaps who is your boss, is into it now.

  13. What_the_What*

    OP: Peace on out of there. It’s one thing if the manager had said the next morning, “Hey I tied to call and was disappointed that during a (minor to be sure) crisis, you were unavailable,” but the minute a supervisor or manager YELLS or RAGES at me, I’m done. I shut down. I’d put my notice in, effective immediately, especially if you think you have another gig lined up. You did nothing heinous and you don’t deserve to be treated like a monster for it.

      1. What_the_What*

        I think I saw “raging workaholic” and conflated it. But, the OP did say the magnitude of the response was inappropriate, so if it’s toxic, regardless of how LOUDLY toxic, she should quit.

        I can’t tell if you’re asking to be nitpicky or if you’re in some way defending the manager for her behavior. Either way, little weird.

        1. Bella Ridley*

          I’m not trying to be nitpicky and none of us have any idea how the manager actually reacted because it’s not detailed. As Alison pointed out, is “serious trouble” just that this other person is irritated with you? Or are actual actions taking place which someone could theoretically push back on? I don’t see the need to catastrophize that LW was getting yelled at or raged at or anything like that.

        2. Hey Ms!*

          I don’t think it’s a little weird. It’s a different story if LM “yelled” or “raged” at LW. But that didn’t happen. Different advice will apply.

          “Yelling” and “In Trouble” all could mean something or nothing. To some, getting regular mundane feedback such as “Please make sure that you let me know when you log off” gets translated to “My boss yelled at me and I got in trouble.”

          No need to exaggerate bits of the story.

  14. lost academic*

    This letter doesn’t actually give the context for the post subject (which I realize the LW doesn’t necessarily write). I didn’t see where the LW detailed that she WAS in trouble, or what form that had taken. The response to handling it takes different forms if it’s Lady Macbeth having a problem the next day/week, or if the manager has already said something, or some other thing that can constitute being “in trouble”.

    I’m also not sure what’s inappropriate. The call at nearly midnight? Definitely not ideal nor particularly appropriate given the details we’ve got (though it sounds like it might have been in hindsight somewhat predictable), but it seems more likely the biggest concern about inappropriate behavior since the OP wasn’t awoken by the call is the reaction/fallout (trouble?) from not picking up the phone and we need to know what actually was.

    My advice is definitely to document the events of that evening and have the calm, open conversation with your manager about clear expectations. If this really is an expectation, and you’re not on board with it, time to bail. If it’s not an expectation but manager isn’t going to do anything about Lady Macbeth calling you at all hours, then theoretically it’s not going to be a problem about communicating and maintaining appropriate boundaries (communicating being key). I know it’s not easy to just let it roll off your back, but until you get out the door, it’s the best advice to give – don’t let her use up your emotional energy!

  16. Juicebox Hero*

    10 hours a week isn’t worth the stress. LM and your boss both suck and aren’t going to change. Get a different PT job where you can just show up, do the work, and leave without drama.

  17. Fluffy Fish*

    OP – serious question…is any of this worth 10 hours a week? it seems like a different PT job would solve a lot of problems.

  18. Pay no attention...*

    I’m coming down on the side of just letting this seasonal job play out to the end and get paid, unless they are being actively harmful to you. You might be irritated by their behavior, but you didn’t indicate you are desperate for this income or fear any reprisals, so why not just keep turning your phone to DND at 9:00 pm and live your life — you don’t need to DO anything about “passive aggression and indirect exclusion of employees, but it’s all under a very nice facade…” or out-of-bound calls that your DND stopped from ringing through.

    1. Kay*

      I’m on this one if the OP can simply… not care. It was hard to tell if anyone had actually said/posed any consequences on OP – and if not, I would simply do the minimum until the season is over and not care about whatever unreasonable thing the boss thinks, all while cashing the checks.

      If another job opens up obviously the OP should take it, and if the OP is getting stressed out or can’t compartmentalize this as “bad boss doing stupid stuff again-I’m not letting this impact me” then I certainly wouldn’t stay.

    2. LCH*

      yup! if you stay at the PT job, sounds like in the future, definitely don’t answer calls outside of the agreed upon on-call window. otherwise you will get stuck working for them very late.

  19. EA*

    Definitely look for a way out of this job and a phone call at almost midnight is definitely excessive, but I think the issue started when you picked up the call outside of your “on call” hours, and if you stay, I’d either not pick up those calls or respond saying you’re not available. Since you were still helping at 10:30pm, I can kind of see why they’d think you would keep helping until it was resolved. If I were the person fixing the equipment, I’d be a little annoyed that the person on call just went to sleep without telling me clearly. It would have been good to tell the person you were communicating with that you’d decided to leave it until the next day, even if it’s just a quick text saying “Hey, I’m heading to sleep, and I’ll check in it 9am tomorrow morning.”

  20. I Just Can't*

    You cannot be a contract employee AND on-call 24/7 without payment. If this is required they are no longer 1099 employees they are just employees and need to be compensated as such. Look in the contract to see what it outlines about number of hours worked. If you want me to be on call then those hours count towards that total.

  21. Somehow I Manage*

    I’m sort of torn on this. I’ve made assumptions and have been bit in the rear by assuming incorrectly. So I can absolutely see that it would have been great for LW to circle back to ensure there was nothing else needed and to let someone know they were turning in for the night. But I’m not sure when that would have been appropriate. After 15 minutes since the last contact? Or 30? Or when?

    It is also on whoever the LW was working on not to assume that they’re just sitting up waiting for an all clear. People fall asleep. And 80 minutes went by between the last contact and the phone call. That’s enough time for someone to just drift off into dreamland.

    Where I’m not torn, though, is the reaction. I don’t know what serious trouble means exactly, but if there’s any outward anger, disappointment or outrage toward someone who falls asleep and isn’t immediately available at almost midnight is too much. If the manager wants to be upset in the moment and grumble to themself…fine. But this seems like an outlier kind of problem and they could certainly have said something the next day along the lines of “hey, we weren’t through with the fix and I really could have used your support, even though I know it was outside of your regular hours” but anything more than that is too much.

    LW, I think you need to just go. While I’m sure the extra income is nice, you say that it is seasonal and you’re nearing the end of the season. Just go. If someone is going to be upset that you went to sleep, I’d wager that if you were doing something else during that 9-9 timeframe and weren’t immediately available – let’s say you went to a movie and had your phone off – they’d be upset too. The extra income isn’t worth that kind of stress and the poor reaction you’ve seen from this situation.

  23. Boof*

    I’m so intrigued that apparently australia passed a law recently giving employees a “right to disconnect” (I’ll post a link as a separate comment).
    I’m not sure if I love for the USA tons of government regulations but sure hope employers take notice! Don’t do this for things that don’t require it!

      1. Le le lemon*

        Yes, it’ll be interesting to see how this pans out in Australia. Note however:
        – Applicable for non-small business (more than 15 employees) as of 26.05.2024. Applies to small business from 26.05.2025.
        – The right not to respond to contact/attempt to contact or attempted contact from employer or third party.
        – Google “Australia Fair Work Ombudsman right to disconnect” and you’ll get the .gov.au web pages.

        Will make my life trying to arrange covers for casual (hourly) staff a little harder.

        1. Freya*

          From what I remember, the law is not so much that you can’t contact employees at all, but more that you can’t punish them if they don’t pick up. So make sure the expectation is set that you might attempt to contact employees out of hours to arrange coverage for an imminent understaffed shift BUT that if they don’t respond the only consequence is that they won’t pick up the shift you were calling about. Continue to roster them as usual, don’t change their hours without checking with them, and so forth.

          Fair Work has a pretty good set of guidelines with regards to discussing this with employees and where you should draw the line for yourself given circumstances.

  24. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

    Being “on call” 12 hours a day 7 days a week for a 10 hour per week PT admin job is freaking absurd.

  25. EC*

    This reminds me of my first boss after grad school. It wasn’t uncommon to wake up in the morning to see an email that was sent at 2 AM asking a question, followed by an angry email sent at 4 AM demanding to know why I hadn’t answered the 2AM email. But in my case, half the time when I responded she’d forgotten that she’d sent them. It was never something that couldn’t have waited until morning when I got to the lab.

  26. JetBlu*

    Define “serious trouble”. If someone is just yapping at me, I just move on. If this equipment failure was costing a lot of money issues, I’d stay up or turn off my DND for that one night. If nothing changed the outlook overnight, let them know that.

  27. Former Gremlin Herder*

    I had a similar conversation recently with my partner, who works in an hourly, healthcare adjacent field and was “on call” until fairly late into the evening to answer questions from a higher up about an urgent and evolving situation that had started during his workday. He was in a similar position where it didn’t seem like the issue was resolved, but hadn’t received any questions in a while, so I suggested he send the higher up a text to let them know he was going offline but would check in in the morning. It went fine, because his bosses are normal, reasonable, people who can communicate. He was also able to get paid for the time he had to be available after hours. So, for OP’s context, giving a “signing off” message would have been good, but nothing else about your situation makes sense. I know doctors who *are* on call for real emergencies and I promise they’re making enough to compensate for having their nights and evenings interrupted-being on call for 10 hours/week is ridiculous.

  28. Gatomon*

    I am expected to be on call 24/7 with the rest of my team, and it can be very serious – people unable to reach 911, or tens of thousands of people out of service. And I see zero issue with going to bed after 90 minutes of no contact. Generally after 45 minutes I assume the trouble is either resolved, refocused on something outside my scope, or we’re calling it for the night.

    Seriously at some point you just have to call it. You can reach out to check/confirm with a message, but sometimes people are so absorbed in the issue that a response won’t come quickly, or they’ve already gone to bed themselves. (I’ve been burnt by that a few too many times, sitting up for no reason.) If I’m running the show, I will be as clear as possible if I no longer need someone’s assistance or if we’re going to pick up again in the morning, but not everyone is good about that.

    Everyone on my team has slept through a call before. It’s only ever been an issue if it was “all” of us, and that has usually boiled down to T1 claiming they called all of us and not actually doing so, or calling all of us back-to-back so fast that they’ve not given anyone time to get out of bed before escalating to management. (Many of us have someone sleeping next to us, or easily-awoken kids in the room next door, etc., and need a few minutes to get to a place where we can call back without opening a portal to hell.)

    If work is this upset over a call that came well after last contact, well after the period you’re expected to be available, that’s on THEM for not ensuring they had coverage in that gap period, multiple people who could respond in case someone missed a call/was unavailable, and not clearly stating whether the issue was resolved or would continue to be worked overnight.

  29. Shane*

    I can kind of see LMs point of view here – if it was reasonable for you to be working on this at 10:30pm on a Saturday, why is it unreasonable at 11:50pm on a Saturday? If someone was helping me fix broken equipment and they just left with no warning to go to sleep before it was fixed I’d be annoyed too.

    HOWEVER…
    LMs response to this is unreasonable.
    The on call demands for such a minor part-time job are unreasonable.
    Not having the on call requirements clearly spelled out beforehand is unreasonable.
    Everything else about this job and its management team sounds batsh!t crazy and I would find another job.

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