my boss jokes about our bodies, our sex lives, our pregnancies, and more

by Alison Green on August 20, 2024

A reader writes:

The manager of my department has a habit of saying inappropriate things.

It seems like she means them to be jokes, or perhaps it’s a misguided way of trying to connect with people. Regardless of her intentions, she has been making everyone increasingly uncomfortable as time goes on.

Before she was a manager, she would make occasional inappropriate jokes (for example, joking about my partner and I having a lot of sex while I was on vacation) but people mostly brushed them off. She’s been manager for several years now, but she has never stopped making these comments. In fact, it seems like she’s gotten worse. The things she’s said that I know of include:

* Multiple comments about people’s bodies. When I had a meeting with her to discuss accommodations for an issue I was having, she commented that she knew something was going on because I had gained so much weight. I met with her later to discuss why that made me uncomfortable, and she said she would avoid those comments in the future but didn’t seem to understand why it was an issue.

* Raunchy jokes and speculation about employees’ sex lives. I’m not a prude, but it’s way over the line for a manager.

* Currently, we have a few employees who are pregnant. This has been a gold mine of material for her “jokes.” She has said multiple things along the lines of “so, you’re still going through with this pregnancy, haha just kidding.” (That is of course a horrible thing to say in any context, but we work in the medical field and our work involves pregnancy loss specifically. You’d think she would be more sensitive.)

* “Jokes” about how the employee who is getting married next year better not get pregnant while several people are on maternity leave.

It’s getting to the point where most of the staff avoid having conversations with her at all, because we’re bracing for her next comment. I didn’t think her behavior was appropriate before she became a manager, and it’s certainly not appropriate now.

We’ve had discussions amongst ourselves about what to do. Our HR department has been highly unhelpful when we’ve dealt with them in the past, and is unlikely to take action against a higher-level manager like her. I doubt that our immediate supervisors (one level below the manager in question) would want to get on her bad side by having a conversation with her about this, and we don’t know anyone higher than her in the management chain who we could contact.

Ideally you would escalate this. Your manager is creating a hostile workplace (in the legal sense, not the colloquial one) and opening your company to legal liability for discrimination and harassment based on sex, disability, pregnancy, and I’m betting a few other things too. Even if your company’s HR has been crappy in other ways, if they’re at all worth their paychecks they should want to know a manager is putting them at legal risk.

But if you don’t want to go that route, the other option is for all of you as a group — or at least as many of you as are willing to push back on this — would tell her clearly, every time, that her comments aren’t okay.

Can you all commit to responding in the moment when she makes inappropriate comments? It can be as simple as “wow, that’s really inappropriate” or “please don’t comment on my body” or “stop joking about people’s sex lives; it’s really uncomfortable.”

You can speak up when you’re her target, and also when you’re not her target — “Please don’t joke about sex at work” is reasonable to say whether you’re the target of the joke or not. The same goes for “please don’t joke about people’s pregnancies that way” or “whoa, that was out of line” or “hey, that’s not okay to say at work.”

Show through visible and audible reactions that her comments are disgusting and socially unacceptable. You don’t need to pretend they’re not!

Jane may start acting as if she’s being persecuted for joking around. Don’t let that deter you. Keep calling out the comments as inappropriate every time she makes them, and in time she’s going to learn that your team isn’t a receptive audience. (But even if she never stops, you’re reclaiming some power if you push back every time.)

But really, this is something you can escalate too. Even if your HR is wimpy about dealing with it, if they at least tell her there have been complaints, that’ll be additional pressure on her to cut it out. And if one of you ever does want to take it further — and someone might, at some point!* — it’ll be helpful to have already started a paper trail.

* That goes double if her opposition to maternity leaves shows up in other ways, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it does.

You may also like:
{ 117 comments }

{ 117 comments… read them below }

  1. Jet Blu*

    None of this is even remotely acceptable in the workplace. If HR is not doing their job, file a complaint with the EEOC. This person should be fired.

    1. Ali + Nino*

      100%. I cannot understand how this has been allowed to continue. In this market I find it impossible to believe that there is NO ONE ELSE capable of doing this manager’s role without the constant inappropriate commentary. She needs to be out YESTERDAY.

    2. Velawciraptor*

      And filing complaints with HR (even if they go nowhere) before filing the EEOC complaint will be helpful in the investigation.

    3. Free Meerkats*

      And the first step to taking it up with EEOC is an email to HR with the subject line of “Report of Hostile Workplace Environment” that lays it all out. Give them a week to cure it; then file the EEOC complaint. That does two things; it protects you from retaliation and the company can’t say they were unaware of the issue.
      I spent almost 50 years working in government, Local, County, and Federal, and without documentation it didn’t happen.

      2. Orora*

        THIS. Even if you don’t think HR will do anything, report it to them. The first question an attorney or government agency will ask you is, “Did you report this behavior?” Make the report in writing. Give as many details as possible. Dates, times, witnesses, etc. Email it and CC yourself so you have a document with a time and date stamp.

        If further incidents occur, write down everything that you remember and email it yourself at home or another email address. Again, you’re making notes on details and giving them a time and date stamp. All of this is documentation in your arsenal in case you need it.

    4. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

      With all of the mandatory sexual harassment / hostile work environment training going around these days, it blows my mind that someone would think any of these “jokes” were appropriate.

      Hard agree with Alison and others on documenting and escalating. This is fully not ok.

      1. Michelle Smith*

        Right?! The people in our training videos seemed like caricatures. It’s wild seeing someone acting out that way in real life.

  2. Not on board*

    wtf!!?? I would absolutely let HR know that this is creating a legal liability if they don’t deal with the situation. Also, comments in the moment might help. “That’s a gross thing to say”; “how can you say that?” (especially about the pregnancy loss jokes); and so on.
    “Why on earth would you say that?” or “I beg your pardon?”

    1. Yes we have no bananapants*

      Never tried it myself but I once read that a good way to someone saying something inappropriate is to ask them “Are you okay?” This is the opposite of the reaction they’re hoping to get with their “jokes” and will usually make them pause for a moment. If they ask why you can reply something along the line of wondering what made them think that was an ok thing to say.

      2. The Original K.*

        “How strange that you feel comfortable saying that to me/asking me that” and “You must be so embarrassed to have said that out loud” also work well (the latter for particularly egregious offenses). So does asking someone to explain the punchline to an offensive joke. Say it quizzically – “I don’t understand, why is that funny?” People tend to hesitate when they have to say “it’s funny because blondes are dumb” in so many words.

        1. Chauncy Gardener*

          And if you’d rather take a slightly lighter tone, you could say, “haha. You said that with your OUTSIDE voice. haha”

          But honestly, wtf is wrong with this person? I have an extremely sarcastic, dry, dark sense of humor and in no way, shape or form are any of her comments even remotely funny.

          1. Relee*

            I have done (in a bright cheerful tone of voice while turning back to my computer) “Wow, I don’t think that’s something that would ever be appropriate to say in a workplace!”

      3. Double A*

        I did this once to a troll in a comment section who started spouting political talking points in a word salad. “Oh, I was worried you might be having a stroke,” I believe I said. It did indeed derail them and get them talking like a human again.

      4. RCB*

        I wouldn’t say it in this case but when I’m REAL spicy I’ll say to someone (non work setting) “should I call an ambulance?” and when they give me a quizzical look trying to figure out what’s going on I add “because you must be having a stroke if you’re saying something that stupid”

        1. Lenora Rose*

          This is out of “Letting them know it’s inappropriate” and into “ooh, clever zinger” territory… and jokes about strokes are themselves a bad way to deal with jokes about pregnancy loss, and for the same reason. You don’t want to be finding yourself saying that to the person who is the caregiver — or griever — for someone who had a stroke.

      5. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

        I’ve used this one, and I like it. It’s important to say it with the right tone of concern, though, otherwise it comes off as snarky/judgey.

    2. MyToastLeftMe*

      Also – Document the comments so that you can build a record of these incidences. I’m a newbie for HR complaints but that’s what others told me.

    3. ThatOtherClare*

      “That wasn’t funny”
      “Please don’t joke about that”
      “Wow”
      “Um… anyway, moving on”
      “Yeah…nah”
      “*stern silence*”
      “Let’s not talk about my weight”
      “Ok, time to stop”
      “Seriously?”

      1. History Nerd*

        These are great options. If you’re like me and can never find the right thing to say in the moment, there’s also great power in not laughing and/or letting your face say it.

    4. Never the Twain*

      “I guess our sense of humor is very different, I don’t find that funny at all”

      Which makes your opinion clear and also pre-empts the usual down-doubling of ‘Oh lighten up, can’t you take a joke?’

  3. Quill*

    OOOf. Medicine can be prone to overshare / dark jokes in ways that may make it feel harder to push back on this, but drawing a firm boundary that talk about bodies in general is fine but coworker’s bodies is not shouldn’t be impossible.

  4. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    HR and uses the magic words hostile workplace. Because yeah this is bad.

    Man or woman — the I was just joking thing is used by people who want to justify their terrible behavior.

    Your boss is not trying to connect with you all, she’s trying to show off she has power over by making these comments.

    1. Observer*

      HR and uses the magic words hostile workplace. Because yeah this is bad.

      Yes, this is the key. Also, in writing so they can’t say they “didn’t know”. BCC and outside address, and cc your work address. And if at all possible, encourage others to do the same so that can’t try “you’re the only one who has an issue, so we don’t have enough information to do anything”.

      the I was just joking thing is used by people who want to justify their terrible behavior.

      Yup.

      1. ferrina*

        YES. Definitely document what you say to HR.

        Considering how bad this is and how inactive HR has been, OP or a coworker may want to consult with an employment attorney before they send this email. A lawyer can be a great resource in helping OP figure out what options they have, and if there’s practices they should be using. HR doesn’t need to know that OP consulted an attorney, and consulting an attorney doesn’t mean that OP needs to sue. It would be purely to get more information.

        Best case scenario: HR hears the magic words and does something.
        Worst case scenario: HR buries the complaint and retaliates against OP. If this happens, OP wants to be prepared with evidence for a lawyer. Again, considering how bad this already is, I want OP to be prepared in case this escalates.

    2. anneshirley*

      And also specific examples (like what was shared here except with as much detail as you can remember: time, place, people present, etc). The more specific you can be the less wriggle room you give for people to brush it off as ‘bad jokes.’ (To be clear, no one should be brushing anything off, but if you’re concerned about HR not acting then details are your friend.)

    4. Crencestre*

      If you have to say “I was only joking!” to get yourself off the hook for making some obnoxious crack, then your “joke” wasn’t funny to anyone except yourself!

  5. KG*

    Gonna need her to go to a conference room and write “The Office is not a management training video” 100 times on the whiteboard.

  6. I Have RBF*

    Yikes on bikes!

    I’m one of those people who often has no filter, especially when I’m stressed. But even I wouldn’t make those kind of “jokes” at work.

    The Vulcan raised eyebrow and facial expression that says “I am NOT amused” would be my go-to here.

    1. Alan*

      Me too. I’m often accused of not having a filter but even I wouldn’t say that stuff. It’s hurtful, actionable, and makes you look like a giant horse’s ass.

  7. Anon for this one*

    Holy smokes, and I thought my department supervisor unprofessional and inappropriate. They once “joked” about how much they miss the old 18+ rooms at the back of video rental places (still need brain bleach for that one), not to mention comments about people’s weights and bodies. Later I always wish I had said something but in the moment I’m always too dumbfounded to respond.

    I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Gather with your coworkers to support each other, push back, and document everything you can. Good luck with it!

    1. Bossy*

      You don’t even have to say something “snappy” a mumbled gross and disgusted look work well.

  8. E*

    Document, document, document. Even if HR is useless, at some point the lawyers will have to get involved and documentation of specific incidences will be crucial. Keep sending them to HR and keep track of them on your own. Patterns need to be established and proven.

    1. Sorceress17*

      Came here to comment this! Absolutely document every time you remember, along with what she said. Have everyone keep their own log, even if it’s just a list of the things she said. It doesn’t matter if you aren’t 100% correct. It’s not on you to prove she said a certain thing at a certain time, so don’t let anyone try to tell you differently.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      This is a great idea, being able to present a detailed list of what was said and when (and who was present for it) will be incredibly beneficial.

  9. Harriet J*

    So sorry that you and your colleagues are dealing with this glass bowl behavior.
    We had a staff member like this. Her response to any criticism was “you don’t have a sense of humor.” What finally shut her down was when one of the most respected staffers responding to that with “if you are constantly telling other people they don’t have a sense of humor, clearly the problem is with you.” Everyone around laughed and she must have realized that no one was on her side.
    Good luck!

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      That staffer was utterly awesome.

      I once had a boss who made those kind of jokes too. And who then complained that I was too quiet! To be fair, she would stop if somebody made it clear it was really upsetting them, but…it took a lot to get that through to her. Even if a person got upset, she usually thought they were just pretending to play along with the joke. If you took her aside and told her, “I find it really upsetting when you joke about X and I want you to stop,” she would. But…it wouldn’t stop her making equally inappropriate jokes about other things.

      And given that I was 20 years old, a work experience student and…honestly, possibly autistic and with no knowledge of that…yeah, I would have had no idea how to go about telling my 30+ year old boss to stop anyway.

    2. RedinSC*

      The one I use is, “look to the common denominator here, if no one gets your jokes, you’re the common denominator. It isn’t a them problem”

  11. Tess of the D'atabases*

    Why would you let this go on so long? If Jane were a man, you would have engaged HR eons ago. I’m a woman, and it’s definitely not ok to give her a pass while men would be in HR pronto. Weird.

    1. Dinoweeds*

      How is this helpful? There are many reasons why this might “go on so long” including the power dynamics at play as well as OP’s past with this person. Bringing gender into this isn’t useful for anyone.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      Plenty of men behave like this without being reported. Men are just as likely to “get a pass” as women.

    3. Manic Sunday*

      Right, because no one in recent history has ever been afraid to report a male authority figure.

    4. Allonge*

      Cause Jane is their boss? Very few people are in the position to ‘let’ their manager do anything.

      Also this is the typical situation where first you need to convince yourself this is happening and yes, it is that bad.

    5. Paint N Drip*

      OP specifically said HR is useless, so when you have no official tools for recourse… ???? OP is engaging AAM because it’s a trustworthy avenue for support and feedback, they’re not doing nothing. I find this comment unnecessarily and pointedly hurtful to OP who we as readers should be appreciating.

      1. Vincent Adultman’s assistant*

        Yeah I had a previous job where it became apparent right away that HR was incompetent/shady (trying to tell us we couldn’t discuss raises and salary with each other without outright saying it) and overall useless, even on mundane things. My department’s particular HR rep was BFF with my boss so everyone knew there was no real point in going to HR about anything related to that department because it was just going to get twisted around and reported back to Boss in the worst possible light.

        So if I’d ever had a serious problem like sexual harassment, blatantly obvious discrimination, etc, I would have already known that going to HR was a fool’s errand. And going over that rep’s head to his boss in HR wouldn’t have been much better, honestly.

        I did report a few “hmm these comments that boss made about my physical appearance multiple times/totally out of nowhere comments about a pregnant underling’s pregnancy*/overall appearance of students in a particular department**” instances during my exit interview with that snake-in-the-grass HR rep and he at least had the good sense to realize that yeah, that kind of stuff could get the organization in serious hot water if it ever hit the news. So maybe some management training sessions were held later on, at least.

        *not in front of the pregnant coworker, at least that day (thank goodness?)
        **yes let us alienate our actual customer base and the reason we even have jobs. Bravo (slow clap)

      2. Meep*

        +1 million

        About two years ago, I was in this position with the person being “HR” (small start-up company). She said all sorts of inappropriate things like telling my fever due to COVID was me “ovulating” (again, she is a woman if anyone missed that) and insisting that if I got pregnant she would fire me when I had the freaking flu.

        It took me literally quitting and letting them know that I was going to EEOC (after multiple complaints were made) for the owner to finally take it seriously. It didn’t matter she had fired three other people for discriminatory reasons (one having Chrone’s, one being non-binary, and one coming out as trans – during the week of her transition surgery!)

        Drives me nuts we are reducing this behavior to “if a man had done it.” STOP! No one should be participating in this behavior, but so many of us are at a disadvantage to do anything. She knew what she was doing at 60+ going after recent grads (21-23 yos).

    6. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      We know why, because the LW told us: they didn’t go to HR because HR “has been highly unhelpful when we’ve dealt with them in the past.”

      And maybe also because they expected exactly this sort of derailing: “why didn’t you say something sooner?” but if they had said something right away, someone would have said “why are you complaining about a couple of jokes? It’s no big deal.”

      Even if LW hadn’t explicitly told us why they didn’t complain sooner, how is this question useful? Any advice requiring the use of a time machine can reasonably be disregarded.

    8. SnackAttack*

      Huh? This site is filled with stories of men who get away with egregious things. Do you remember that boss who would literally dump his pee on people’s dishes as they were washing them? This is about power imbalance and an incompetent HR, not gender.

    9. Cheap Ass Hellmouth*

      Victim blaming is not helpful or kind, and comments like this are why people are so hesitant to reach out for help. Gender has nothing to do with this; it’s about the fact that this boss has the power to fire OP and no one with the power to make boss stop will use it.

    11. Laser99*

      That’s like saying, “Well, why do you let her hit you?” There’s no “letting” involved, it’s occurring against their will, got it?

    12. Meep*

      I am a staunch feminist and the only male vs female behavior here is that it is even more atrocious coming from a woman who probably was sexually harassed at her workplace before. Not that it wouldn’t fly so long if she wasn’t a man.

  12. Manic Sunday*

    First, document. Write down as much as you can remember with as many dates and times as you can recall. Document any new bad behavior as it occurs. Take what you know to HR, be clear about why it matters, and see how they handle it. Then escalate as needed. If this manager has ever done anything to negatively affect the employment of someone she’s “joked” with, or of someone who fits the profile of those she “jokes” with (e.g. pregnant employees or those who are considering becoming pregnant, people who need accommodations) or if she’s implied she *would* do something to employees like them, and if HR is informed and doesn’t take proper action, then someone may have a case against the company. In the meantime, discuss this manager’s behavior with HR

    When you go to HR, frame her comments and behavior not only as inappropriate but as hostile and illegal. Talk about her in terms of the legal liability she is already creating and/or may create if she’s allowed to continue. Examples:

    * “When I had a meeting with her to discuss accommodations for an issue I was having, she commented that she knew something was going on because I had gained so much weight.” If she at any point before or after your disclosure seemed to take any kind of action that affected you negatively, like taking you off a case/project or questioning your abilities in a performance review, or if she implied she was questioning your competence, reframe as: “I believe my manager took/threatened X against me because she knew/perceived that I was disabled.”

    * “Raunchy jokes and speculation about employees’ sex lives.” Again, if she ever did anything that was professionally detrimental to these employees, or gave them reason to worry she would do so, they could argue that “this manager did/threatened X against me because of how she perceives my sexuality/sex life.”

    * “She has said multiple things along the lines of ‘so, you’re still going through with this pregnancy, haha just kidding.'” If she’s done anything professionally detrimental to those people, or if she’s stated or implied people might miss out on opportunities, promotions, or raises if they become pregnant, such comments would be evidence of discrimination–and you should frame them that way to HR.

    * “‘Jokes’ about how the employee who is getting married next year better not get pregnant while several people are on maternity leave.” See above.

    * “It’s getting to the point where most of the staff avoid having conversations with her at all, because we’re bracing for her next comment.” Tell HR, “We worry we’re missing out on opportunities for advancement/mentorship/recognition because we can’t seek support from a manager who makes us feel harassed and even sometimes threatened.”

  13. samwise*

    If your HR won’t do anything and your manager won’t stop, and you are in the US, I encourage you to contact your local Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

    You can also contact an employment lawyer — if you can find one that specializes in harassment and hostile workplace issues, that’s better — to see what your options are.

    Please also start documenting every single instance of this sort of behavior you encounter, and have your coworkers do the same. Include what you/they said in response. Matter of fact tone, detailed. BTW how it made you feel can be documented as a fact as well, just keep that same objective, even keeled tone. If you can remember dates and details of earlier incidents, document those too. If any of it is in an email or memo or card or whatever, any sort of physical or digital document, make a copy and keep it somewhere safe (not at work). Documentation is super important, I can’t stress this enough. (Even if you don’t want or intend to file an EEOC complaint etc, still keep the documentation. )

  14. Pair of Does*

    “I’m jUsT jOkInG…”
    “Yes, that’s the problem; these are wildly inappropriate jokes for the workplace and open the company up to legal liability.”

    1. Old Woman in Purple*

      Another clue: If the recipient isn’t laughing, it isn’t a joke, it’s bullying.

      1. Glen*

        well, certainly in this instance it’s bullying, but as someone with a terrible and over-broad sense of humour, sometimes jokes just aren’t as funny as I think they are. You’ll get a lot of false positives if you assume every time a joke falls flat the joke teller is bullying, and risk overlooking bullying that doesn’t use “just joking” as cover.

      2. Been There 2*

        Not necessarily: sometimes bullied employees will laugh reflexively out of nervousness because of the power differential. They worry they’ll be fired or retaliated against if they don’t find the boss’s humor funny.

    2. Possum's mom*

      ” That remark is going to be another entry in the report I’m compiling for HR”. Actually had to say this to a manager who thought his previous gross statements were funny and somehow attracting me to him. He blanched when I said it, and he did stop his remarks to me ( satisfying !) but he thought his job was secure because of high volume sales in his area. Nope, he was fired after a thorough HR investigation uncovered multiple instances of such behavior with many current AND former employees. So don’t be too sure that she is untouchable, OP.

    3. Cinn*

      Alternative/additional response to the “just joking” defence, “that is inappropriate, it isn’t funny, and even if it was it would still be inappropriate”.

  15. Keeper of Scrolls*

    Alison’s advice is sound and sensible as always. That said, the spiteful part of me wants to advise you to pass the discomfort straight back to her by feigning confusion and asking her to explain the joke. “Oh so you’re still going through with this pregnancy, haha just kidding.” “*baffled stare* What do you mean? Why wouldn’t I?” then continuing to ask confused questions while she digs herself deeper trying to explain why she thinks what she just said was funny.

    Not saying you should, obviously! But god would I want to in your shoes.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I think OP can look at her with surprise. I’m sure the manager will say, “I was just joking.” Then really, OP you can say, “oh, I didn’t realize. Can you say it again? I want to hear it.”

      1. ferrina*

        I’m now imagining a Pavolovian training sequence of the manager.

        1. Look very baffled whenever she makes an inappropriate joke. Ask her to explain. Never actually laugh or give any reaction beyond confusion.

        2. Laugh heartily any time she makes an appropriate joke, whether it’s funny or not. Compliment her on “that joke about the llama knitting a sweater”

        See if the positive/negative reinforcement trains her into only telling appropriate jokes.

        *This is not realistic advice, though I, er, may have done something similar with a more minor issue at work. Best advice is to document, talk to a lawyer about your options, and loop in HR/EEOC/whoever can make a difference.

    2. Elle*

      I can see myself asking her to clarify whether she was making an abortion joke or a miscarriage joke. Just wondering, y’know?

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        “…because I know my pregnant friend will crack up, so I want to make sure I tell it right!”

      2. desdemona*

        One has to wonder if a pregnant employee bursting into tears at one of those jokes would be enough to make her stop….probably not.

        1. Bast*

          Probably not, because to someone like this who clearly doesn’t see what the “big deal” is it would likely be written off as “hormones.”

  16. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    Your manager is a disgusting creep who is sexually harassing you all – and your HR are also disgusting for not taking action against her.

    I suggest you report her again, this time making an appointment and going together as a group to HR, or to your grandboss (even if you’ve not met them before). If you put say “Hostile workplace – sexual harassment & disability harassment” in your EM request for a meeting this should galvanise them.

  17. Lana Kane*

    She has said multiple things along the lines of “so, you’re still going through with this pregnancy, haha just kidding.” (That is of course a horrible thing to say in any context, but we work in the medical field and our work involves pregnancy loss specifically. You’d think she would be more sensitive.)

    This person is not ok. One day a patient will overhear.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      Statistically it’s likely that someone who has been affected already HAS overheard. As someone with a few miscarriages under my belt, I DO find it therapeutic to bring that awkward back to ‘jokesters’ like this boss. Oh sorry was my dead baby not funny? Weird…

    2. Random Bystander*

      Or it could be said directly to a patient.

      This was many years ago (in between my oldest and middle children; the children in question are now 26 and 30) when I had had an early miscarriage. Due to rH issues, I had to go in for the rhoGAM shot. So this is just days (less than a week) since the loss when the nurse who was going to administer the shot asks me what I’m going to be doing for contraception. I tell her that we’re going to continue what we had been doing (NFP) and the words she said to me at that point are burned into my brain: “You need to consider something more reliable; you can’t keep counting on miscarriages.”

      My response was not pretty, nor was it quiet. Someone else was dispatched to the room to remove the nurse (who was thereafter barred from my care, I don’t know if the practice kept her on or not) and another nurse gave me my shot. Shortly after that, I got my second “sticky” baby (aka middle child) because we had actually intended the pregnancy to happen (fun fact about NFP is that you can use it to avoid *or* to conceive).

      I’m post-menopause now, but I had exactly one pregnancy-related surprise while using NFP. That would be the existence of “Baby B” (ie conceiving twins when only expecting one).

      I agree, that someone who thinks those sort of remarks are ok “jokes” to someone who works in that field is likely the same sort of person who would think it ok to say what that nurse said to me.

      1. allathian*

        Oh my goodness, how horrible! I’m glad your healthcare provider acted promptly and I really hope that nurse got out of nursing altogether. She clearly didn’t have enough empathy for the job.

        I’m almost hoping the LW’s person makes a horrible comment to a patient/client who complains. Even horrible management/HR that doesn’t take employee complaints seriously will often act when customers complain.

        I’m so sorry you’re going through this, LW.

  18. Oh Ew No*

    This is all so disgusting, and I’m sorry you’re going through this.

    There’s good advice from other commenters so I won’t add to it, but just say that I’m in full sympathy with you.

    When I was very, very new to the professional world I had a complete sleazeball of a manager who was, at best, pretty gross. At worst, he sexually harassed (maybe assaulted? unclear at this point because there was so much bad behavior that the pile of stories got very muddled) multiple younger employees. Yes, we went to HR. No, they did not take our complaints very seriously beyond lip service to thinking about improving company culture. The problem is that the creepy manager was the company owner and of course company culture was pretty much dictated by him. I was young and had very few resources so when HR shrugged their shoulders and said “it is what it is” I figured my alternatives were to either put up with it (and risk warping all sense of what’s acceptable in the workplace at the ripe age of 23) or leave. So I left. Last I heard, the predatory company owner sold off the company a few years later. No idea what happened to the awful HR person who told a bunch of young women to sit down, shut up, and take it…but I hope she’s had the life and career she deserves.

      1. Dancing Otter*

        She’d probably been on the receiving end of the same BS herself.
        Even now, there’s not a he** of a lot to do about the OWNER of the company, but back then there really wasn’t any recourse at all.
        She told them the truth, that she couldn’t force him to stop. What should she have said, lied to them?

        1. Peachie*

          Are those really the only options? Are we really saying a woman who defends a sexist man cannot have her own autonomy and instead must be simply forced to by him? And FYI there are many more things that the person could have done – including also leaving and not defending abuse at work.

          1. Riff those trax*

            Yeah the kind of women who shrug their shoulders and say “well you’ll just have to put up with it” (as an HR person no less!) are the same kind of women who thought *they’d* be fine when Gilead became a reality.

            And you know I’m peeved because I just referenced A Handmaid’s Tale and I haaaated that book

        2. Oh Ew No*

          “Back then” was the first decade of the 21st century, not exactly the dark ages. What the HR woman could have, should have, done was help us understand that s exually predatory bosses are NOT the normal and NOT acceptable. Why was it ok for her to tell us tough sh*t? It’s disheartening to still see people defending or sweeping away this nonsense.

        3. Vincent Adultman’s assistant*

          “Back then”

          Okay we’re talking about like, what, anywhere from the late 90s to the early 2000s to even the early 2010s maybe?? “Turn of the century” and all?

          So Not exactly the 1900s or even the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or early 1990s.

          So this “oh but what could the HR person, a fellow woman have done besides tell you all to just deal with it?!” handwringing is a little disingenuous

  19. BlueCanoe*

    LW stated that they work in the medical field. Does this manager have any contact with patients/clients? If so, I’d wonder if she’s saying inappropriate things to them as well.

    1. MicroManagered*

      Nothing in the letter indicates that. I’d bet this boss knows what’s appropriate and what’s not… she is probably like people I encountered back in food service or call center days – wildly inappropriate when she thinks she’s “among friends” but knows how to act in front of clients.

  20. MicroManagered*

    I doubt that our immediate supervisors (one level below the manager in question) would want to get on her bad side by having a conversation with her about this,

    I’m “this” level of manager and I’m here to say: You might be surprised. My boss doesn’t do anything even close to this, but I’ve shard concerns or feedback from my team before! It’s much easier for me to start a difficult/awkward conversation on behalf of one of my direct reports than it would ever be for myself. At least talk to your immediate supervisor and see if they seem open or have any ideas on approach, before you count this out.

  22. EA*

    I think in this situation the people who could push back most “easily” are the ones who have received pregnancy-related comments. That’s pretty clear pregnancy discrimination territory.

    Alternatively, go with a group of people to to HR with documentation of at least 5+ comments about pregnancy and sex (exclude the body image comments) and point out the harassment.

  23. Fraggled*

    This is absolutely toxic behavior. She’s picking on the exact things in your workplace’s context that would inflame the highest emotional response.

    Dare I say she’s a narcissist? They are very manipulative and also emotionally aware enough to pull those crap and have the nerve to feign confusion when you call them out – like when you called her out.

    It will be exhausting to fight to get rid of her, but it will be more exhausting letting her stay. I hope you get her booted soon!

    1. Harriet J*

      “It will be exhausting to fight to get rid of her, but it will be more exhausting letting her stay. ”
      I will try to make this my mantra the next time I’m in a toxic situation. Too often we discount the physical/mental/emotional toll of “dealing with” a toxic person.

  24. Coyote River*

    Whether male or female, this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated from a manager, or indeed anyone else in an organisation.

  25. Hroethvitnir*

    Holy crap. Especially the abortion joke, what in all the hells? This is so far beyond the pale regardless of being medicine: I hope you seriously consider going to HR, LW!

  26. Hyaline*

    Does she make these jokes in front of her boss or other higher ups? If not, she knows darn well these comments are not appropriate.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      It doesn’t sound like this is even a possibility, since LW says that they can’t really find anybody in charge of this person to complain to. And that’s kind of the crux of the problem right there: this person has no accountability.

      A shitty pig of a manager + lack of transparency in the command chain + completely ineffectual HR = probably time to find another job.

      I honestly just want to go out to the parking lot and completely trash this manager’s car. Not that I’m suggesting this, but this manager — she creates a rage.

  27. Nicole Coelho Antoun*

    HR is not there to protect employees, but the company, which means YOU MUST GO TO HR, b/c this woman is putting the company in legal jeopardy. If you are talking to your coworkers it is worth gathering and organizing as a group, keeping a record of every comment she makes, and making it clear that her behavior is creating a hostile work environment. If HR cares at all about the company, they will take action.

    1. Laser99*

      The magic word here is “customer”. Or client, patient, whatever. “On Tuesday, Jane stated to a customer, “Are you pregnant or just obese? I’m guessing obese, because who would touch you.” This works a lot better than “She’s creeping us out.” Yes, I am speaking from experience.

      1. allathian*

        There’s no evidence this person is doing that. She’s saying horrible things to her subordinates, either because she’s on a weird power trip or out of a misguided attempt at bonding with her employees. I’ve never worked in the medical field but I have several friends and relatives who do, and most of them say that they use dark humor to destress. But not where patients can hear them, and they don’t comment on their coworkers’ bodies, etc.

        1. Dog momma*

          Retired nurse here..this not dark humor. esp the miscarriage comments. Wed never dream of saying anything to anyone, let alone a patient, except… I’m very sorry for your loss. Is there anything I can do to help you.?

  28. TheBunny*

    I agree with Alison, I would talk to HR.

    I must admit it’s a bit of a trigger for me when people say HR is useless. Yes, some of them are. But a lot of times HR doesn’t give employees the answer they want because they are following a policy, a precedent, or for some other reason that isn’t always shared.

    Is this always true? Of course not. But with something like this I would absolutely escalate it just in case someone on the HR team is better than you think.

    Dealing with this boss feels like a chance worth taking.

  29. HonorBox*

    Go to HR and be very specific with everything you’ve shared here. And more if you have it. Not only has this created a hostile work environment, I see sexual harassment and other legal issues in play, especially as it relates to comments about pregnancy. Follow up that conversation with HR with an email so it is in writing and on the record. They can’t say that they didn’t get it, didn’t understand, or you weren’t specific enough. And I think I’d probably consult an attorney because if/when HR doesn’t follow up, you’ll have opportunity to do something else. An attorney might have suggestions for what to say to HR and how to phrase it too, so consulting with them first would probably be helpful.

  30. Red5*

    Maybe while you’re figuring out how to get HR and/or other employees to help shut it down, you can also try the old trick of dialing up to maximum cluelessness and responding, “I don’t get it,” every time she makes an inappropriate comment.

    Her: *inappropriate comment*
    You: *confused* I don’t get it.
    Her: Well, you know, *maybe repeats comment or gives vague explanation*
    You: No, I don’t know. Explain it to me.
    Her: *Tries to repeat the joke or say she’s just joking*
    You: I still don’t understand. What do you mean?
    *Keep going until she gives up.*

    Usually pushing people who say inappropriate or offensive things under the guise of “joking” to spell out exactly the thing they know they’re not supposed to say gets them to back down.

  31. Meep*

    I was wondering where my former boss went.

    Sorry, LW. But like others have said go to HR as quickly as possible. If she is like my old boss, she won’t stop or even realize she is in the wrong, but it will remove her from your hair quicker.

  32. Ava*

    Oh my god, those comments are awful. Someone in my family lost three pregnancies, and I think if someone had come up to her while she was pregnant and made some “joke” about her still going through with it, she would have been distraught. In other circumstances, I’d assume the person making these comments just wasn’t really aware of pregnancy loss and how common it is… but it sounds like, given your line of work, she should absolutely know.

Comments are closed.