my coworker keeps messaging me about my face during meetings

by Alison Green on August 5, 2024

A reader writes:

I am a full-time, mid-level female manager at a large consultancy, and I sometimes work with a senior strategist (a contractor). He has an off-putting habit of utilizing Zoom DMs to make comments that make it clear he is scrutinizing me instead of paying attention to the meeting. Things like, “Something must be funny!” or “You look vexed! LOL”

While I am sometimes guilty of sending an email or responding to someone on Slack during a meeting if I’m not actively presenting or leading, I don’t think my face is doing anything out of the ordinary. Another colleague of mine has said she has gotten similar messages from the strategist. I checked with one of our male colleagues, and he says he has never gotten a message from the strategist about his facial expression.

The last time I got one of these messages, I responded, “I think it is just my face. :D”

Is there anything else you suggest to push back on these weird messages? We don’t work in the same city, so will never have a chance to casually chat in person. It feels very much like he only does this to female colleagues.

Yeah, it’s super common — and super annoying — for men to feel free to comment on women’s faces when they’d never make the same comment to another man. Ask any man how often he’s been ordered to smile by another man.

Sometimes it stems from the underlying, though often unconscious, belief that women should always be pleasant, decorative objects … plus, women’s faces and bodies seem to be up for assessment and feedback all the time and in every context.

If you try to shut down the men who do this, they’re generally shocked, even insulted; they’re just being friendly, they claim! But the fact that they only do it to women gives the game away.

To be clear, there are plenty of times where friendly coworkers might trade messages during meetings like “I can see you’re barely holding it together over what Roger just said” or so forth — where it’s just friendly camaraderie. But this doesn’t sound like that, even if he thinks it is.

Anyway. Some options:

You can just ignore your colleague’s messages if you want. Just because he wants to send them doesn’t mean you owe him a response. And it’s possible that being ignored every time might make him feel weird about continuing. This is probably the best option.

But if you want to address it more explicitly, you could say, “It’s really distracting when you comment on my face during meetings.” If you want to soften it, throw in a “I know you don’t mean anything by it but” at the beginning of that. (Technically you don’t need to soften it, but the message is going to get delivered either way and work dynamics might mean you benefit from cushioning it a bit.)

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{ 334 comments }

{ 334 comments… read them below }

  1. Orv*

    One of my least favorite things about Zoom is having to constantly police my own facial expressions. It’s distracting.

      1. Jaydee*

        See, I’m the weirdo who actually likes being able to see my facial expressions on virtual meetings. My face makes faces. I know it does, and I have to police it when I’m in-person with others as well. At least if I can see it I can tell if I’m policing it effectively.

        2. MotherofaPickle*

          +1. Gives you a lot of insight into people and office politics if you pay attention.

    2. chocolate lover*

      I often turn off my camera for this reason. My office isn’t “camera on” culture for group meetings, thankfully.

      1. Meep*

        The owner of my company always insists the camera is on as someone pushing 70. I just tell him my camera is broken if it is just me. If we are in a proper meeting, it will go on for the group in the room (with an external camera), but no one needs to see just me.

        1. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

          “My internet seems slow, I am going to turn the camera off to see if that helps”

          1. RC*

            One of the advantages to being forced to use Teams at my work: this is often actually not a lie!

        2. MigraineMonth*

          One of my remote colleagues has just refused to turn on his camera for the last 4 years. (Or possibly refuses to buy one? Unclear.) He thinks it’s hilarious every time we meet in person and I have to ask him who he is.

        3. jez chickena*

          My former CEO (woman) used to police the facial expressions of other women who were not in her racial demographic. We used to call them “face crimes” (1984)

      2. Nina*

        My previous workplace started out as a ‘camera off’ place for bandwidth reasons, and then when the bandwidth improved, it stayed that way because the higher-ups understood that everyone was busy, most people were working on a low-focus project or grabbing a bite to eat during most meetings, and most of the company was neurodivergent enough to appreciate ‘camera off’.

    3. SheLooksFamiliar*

      Same here. I’m a lot better at looking neutral for the most part. But some days I really have to think about what my face is saying even if I’m on mute.

    4. Nicosloanica*

      Fifty times a day I must log into zoom and then immediately reach for my hair with a skunk face because I thought it looked better than it does. I have frizz.

      2. StressedButOkay*

        Hah, it’s always the first meeting of the day where I go “oh god, I look like THAT?” and then am grateful my in-person colleagues are my husband and cat.

    6. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Totally. I find it’s okay in my small team meetings but when I have to be a fly on the wall for a presentation I turn off my camera. I’m very fidgety and policing my fidgeting is completely distracting, which is ironic because the fidgeting itself helps me pay attention better.

      1. Claire*

        I often fidget with a fidget toy or some exercise putty on zoom meetings. I find zoom actually more amenable to fidgeting with my hands!

        1. Slow Gin Lizz*

          I knit or crochet during meetings. If I can be off camera, I will wear my earbuds and do mindless chores or even light weightlifting. I def could not do any of that were I at an in-person meeting. (And I hate in-person mtgs, wonder why.)

    7. Ellie*

      I just keep my camera off, unless I’m in an interview or presenting. I ignore most pushback but occasionally I’ve explained to people that I’m in meetings all day, and it’s exhausting leaving my camera on. If I was OP, I’d start leaving my camera off whenever he’s in the meeting. You can always claim bandwidth issues.

    8. allathian*

      I guess I’m glad that I’m in an environment where I don’t have to act alert. It’s enough to prove that I am by actively participating in the meeting. Our Teams meetings start with cameras on, but when the presentation starts we’re allowed to turn them off. Some always keep them on so the presenter isn’t talking to a row of black boxes or profile photos, at least if the presenter is using PowerPoint Live and can see the audience. When they’re just sharing their screen there’s no point because the presenter can’t see the video anyway. This generally happens when the meeting runner shares the OneNote agenda/minutes. In our internal team meetings at least, people are often pretty obviously multitasking and nobody says anything about it. That said, if we have guests, either from other departments or partner organizations, people tend to be on their best behavior and show a professional face. In our town halls, it’s cameras off and mics muted unless you’re the person talking. The presenter and moderator are the only ones who keep their cameras on for the whole meeting.

    9. Fluffy Orange Menace*

      At the beginning of the pandemic I told my program, “I will NOT enable the camera on my laptop due to security concerns.” 4 years later, it still isn’t on. I’m so glad after watching people pick at zits and do other gross things on THEIR cameras (now I also turn off incoming video, expressing latency concerns). The big problem will be if I ever have to go into an office and work with people who CAN see my face again, after 4 years of losing any control over my expression or eye rolling!

  2. Observer*

    In addition to Alison’s advice, please keep a log of this – and the fact that he is not doing this to guys. Because I suspect that this is not the only way he’s being sexist. So having this information could be useful if a pattern develops.

    If this is the only thing he does, that’s just annoying, and not really actionable. But people like this tend to show other more problematic behavior.

    1. TheBunny*

      I think I mildly disagree. As Alison said, telling women to smile and policing their facial expressions is incredibly common and I’m guessing 90% of men say it without even considering the harassment and sexist overtones of it.

      Yes pay attention if there are other behaviors, but due to how common (and accepted until recently) this is I don’t think it’s fair to say men who do this are sexist in other ways.

      Yes they might be…but telling women to smile and saying “I don’t hire women” are miles apart.

      1. Slightly Less Evil BunnyI*

        It (policing of women’s looks, facial expressions, etc.) being incredibly common doesn’t make it okay.

        If we don’t call out the people who do this, how will we ever get to a place where it’s common knowledge that it isn’t okay?

        Note: by ‘calling out’, I’m not saying go ballistic on them. Just, you know, point out that they only seem to be doing it to women and that maybe they should just stop.

        1. jtr*

          Agree with Slightly Less Evil Bunny I 100%, and adding that yes, those two things are miles apart, AND there’s a gazillion other microaggressions that happen that can marginalize people that are miles away from “I don’t hire women” but that do negatively impact our careers and lives, that some people don’t realize are sexist behaviors.

          It doesn’t have to be as blatant and bad as that to get called out, and that can help people (hopefully) come to the realization that they are committing microaggressions and maybe even get them to stop doing it.

          Personally, I wouldn’t soften it with “Sorry” (we need to stop apologizing for our NORMAL behavior and feelings!!!), I would though say, “I know you don’t mean anything by it…” at least the first time.

          And screenshot his comment and this response. I’d also at least talk to the other woman previously contacted and let her know your plan/strategy.

        2. Festively Dressed Earl*

          And because of this, if LW goes the route of calling her coworker out, I think she loop in her female colleagues who’ve noted the same issue. At worst they know someone’s called the guy out on it; at best, they’ll also call him out and make the pattern harder for him or others to ignore.

        3. StressedButOkay*

          I agree. Microaggressions do, can, and will build up. It’s not making a mountain out of a mole hill, it’s stopping the building of the mole hill before it can become a mountain.

      2. not nice, don't care*

        Removed. Please lower the heat on your responses to other commenters. – Alison

        1. Saturday*

          I think sexism being on a spectrum is exactly TheBunny’s point. Doing this doesn’t necessarily mean that the coworker is sexist in other ways as well. But that also doesn’t mean that doing this is okay.

            1. Boof*

              I don’t think this is helpful to make complicated behaviors so all or nothing. There are a lot of things that, at their root, have a core of bigotry but that people pick up because it’s common and they never questioned it. Spending the bandwith to log someone else’s behavior is probably not necessary at this juncture for what it sounds like would qualify as a microaggression ie “indirect, subtle, or unintentional”. Just starting with saying it’s distracting that they keep commenting on how they look and to please stop; if they don’t clue in, maybe then start logging and a more pointed “do you talk to men like this? because commenting a lot on how women look is pretty sexist. Regardless, now you know, this is distracting, please stop doing this to me and anyone else”.

            2. hiraeth*

              Yeah but basically every dude is sexist because they’ve all grown up in a sexist environment, soaking it up like little sponges. It’s still not OK. And it’s shit I wouldn’t countenance for one second in my personal life. But when it’s someone you have to be around and you can’t launch them into the sun, you have to consider what response will actually get you the outcome you want.

            1. Saturday*

              Just FYI, I understood that you weren’t saying it was ok. Maybe it wasn’t clear from my response, but I agree with you.

              1. TheBunny*

                :)

                This forum… and the world in general truth be told… seems to launch straight to nuclear. Assume the worst, everyone is awful, etc. and I think it’s a shame. This guy could be a full on sexist creep. He also might just be an idiot.

                I firmly believe when it’s possible to assume the best, do so. If you are proven wrong…oh well, but you tried to be the better and nicer person.

                1. Anna*

                  He’s doing it to women. He’s scrutinizing their FACE. If he’s also doing it to the men and messaging them, then maybe he’s an idiot. If just the women, he’s a creep.

        2. TheBunny*

          I’m sorry that you feel so powerless in your personal life that you need to be this person behind the anonymity of a keyboard and screen name.

          Please refrain from replying to me in the future and I will do the same.

          Thanks.

      3. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

        What he’s doing goes with judging women for their looks, facial expressions, or perceived moods, and then deciding “she just doesn’t seem competent” or “we need a team player, like Mike who I don’t judge for not smiling,” or not noticing or remembering when women have good ideas or make suggestions in meetings. That’s if they don’t turn around and say “I think we should do X” rather than “I agree with Jane, X is a good idea.” None of that has to be deliberate for it to hurt women.

        1. Nesprin*

          Yeah, I read a lot of “women are for looking at vs. men are for listening to” in this guy and I hate it.

          2. Ellie*

            I find it kind of creepy to be honest. Why is he always looking at OP specifically? He doesn’t have some kind of crush on her, does he? But if he does it to other women too then its more likely to just be low-level sexism.

      4. resting vexed face*

        Regardless of intent or broader sexist attitudes, this kind of ongoing scrutiny means that women end up having to do multiple additional tasks while participating in meetings:

        (1) fielding the comments, whether by explaining yourself or choosing to ignore them (the second of which risks offending the commenter);
        (2) dedicating attention to your facial expressions to avoid more comments (in my experience, this kind of commentary is usually directed at my neutral, “thinking” face, which means I have to make an effort to look happy and positive without sliding into “unhinged”);
        (3) being extra careful about how you phrase things (because if you’re being interpreted as “upset” or “angry” based on your face, then everything you say will be filtered through that lens as well).

        Additionally, while it’s not sexism on the same level as flatly refusing to hire women, it can still lead to adverse outcomes for the individual women working in this environment, and not just because they’re doing the extra work of being decorative on top of their actual jobs.

        If this consultant thinks the OP’s neutral facial expression means she is “vexed,” that carries over into how he sees her overall, which affects her reputation—what would you think of a colleague who was frequently vexed in meetings? What would you say about them to a friend who was considering hiring them? Would you want to work with them in the future? Would you be more or less likely to take their suggestions seriously?

        Side note: Even though it’s more positive on the surface, the “something must be funny” comment isn’t any better—it still suggests that she’s distracted from the meeting and emphasizes that he is scrutinizing her.

        If you are interested in considering this further, I would recommend that you try spending your next Zoom meeting watching your own face in the corner of the screen and thinking about what you might be inadvertently conveying with your expressions.

          1. resting vexed face*

            He definitely needs to stop! I did not intend to suggest otherwise; I was explaining the impact of this behavior to the commenter I responded to.

            I was not suggesting that the LW should say all that to her coworker, and I apologize if my comment came across that way. I do think this behavior needs to stop.

        2. I Have RBF*

          I have RBF. If I’m concentrating, even if just concentrating on what someone is saying, I look “angry” or something. I’m not, I’m just concentrating. I used to get flak all the time in person and in camera on cultures. This guy would piss me off.

          Now I’m remote in a “camera off” culture, and I don’t get any more criticism about my “expression”. It’s wonderful. I have an avatar, just like my coworkers do, so we can recognize who’s talking.

          1. allathian*

            I have a coworker who has a Resting Bastard Face. It’s just his face, but when he’s focusing intently, he looks murderous, and I’m not exaggerating. Some people used to hesitate to approach him at the office because his expression made them uneasy, he told me so himself (I’ve forgotten how this question came up). So I actually asked him something like “do you think you’d be more approachable if you smiled at the person as they’re approaching your desk?” and he said he’d give it a try. Now when I see him at the office, he always gives me a big smile that reaches his eyes. Doesn’t mean he’s smiling constantly, just to make that connection. I smile right back at him. On camera he still looks murderous but that just means that he’s focusing on the meeting.

            So while I vehemently oppose the idea of men telling women to smile so they’re seen as non-threatening to fragile male egos at work, it’s interesting to see that strategic smiling can and does work for every gender.

            In my coworker’s case, it made his work more difficult when he had to chase people down because they were uncomfortable in his physical presence and hesitated to visit him at his desk. Going full WFH and then hybrid after the pandemic helped somewhat, people were used to things getting done remotely.

            I’m also in Finland and I can’t remember being told to smile more in a professional context, except maybe in retail when I was a fairly grouchy teenager. Finnish culture is stereotypically seen as a bit taciturn, especially in winter. There’s some truth in that. Apparently I smile enough at work that my neutral face passes scrutiny.

      5. Malarkey01*

        I agree with you. Yes it might be sexist but it also might just be an annoying thing he does and he thinks he’s better friends with these 2 than the other guy and it has nothing to do with gender.

        I think keeping a log just blows this out of proportion from dealing with the “copy guy making copies” and makes this into a much bigger THING. Sometimes it really can be a simple okay that joke’s run it’s course please knock it off and then we all move forward.

        1. Argiope Aurantia*

          @Malarkey01 – I’ve always wondered what the grownup version of a boy pulling on a girl’s pony tail, pinching her, or tackling her on the playground and all the adults saying, “Oh, he’s only doing that because he *likes* you,” looked like.

          Thank you for showing me how that same thinking plays out in an office environment.

          1. Malarkey01*

            No, that’s not my point at all and my advice to someone who is getting their hair pulled would be the same- tell them to knock it off, you don’t need to log this, and you don’t need to determine if he’s pulling your hair because he likes you or because he’s a jerk.
            Jumping to these extremes is making this comment section unusable and I can no longer recommend this blog to mentees or those I manage. I’m really disappointed it’s gone from thoughtful real world work comments to this.

            1. TheBunny*

              Agreed. Scorched earth isn’t always the answer and it’s rarely the way to handle a problem initially.

              Sexism is bad. Tossing fire and gasoline at a problem that could be handled with a matchstick is a problem… and it’s all or nothing in these comments

      7. House On The Rock*

        I actually find a direct comment to a woman about her facial expressions during a meeting pretty darn sexist and unprofessional. It means he feels entitled not only to talk about her looks but also to demand her attention while she’s trying to participate in a work discussion. It reads as smarmy, and if he feels comfortable saying this to multiple women with whom he doesn’t have a particularly close working relationship, what other boundaries might he cross?

        1. Argiope Aurantia*

          And, yanno, he doesn’t even have to be crossing any other boundaries. This one is awful enough.

          He spends his time in meetings staring at the women? Gross and creepy. He feels entitled to comment on what he sees? Vile.

      8. Banquo's Ghost*

        The fact that their sexist behavior is common and unthinking doesn’t make it any less sexist. And people who are unthinkingly sexist in one way are almost certainly unthinkingly – or consciously – sexist in other ways.

        Keep track. If there is no pattern, no harm done. If there is, a record may prove helpful.

      9. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        It indicates he’s focused first on how a woman appears, and if that appearance makes him happy. He’s not concerned if a male coworker is making him comfortable in a meeting. It’s not miles apart. It indicates how he values and judges men vs women in his workplace. Fred can be glaring or smirking. He’s never told him, “wow, something struck you funny.” So it is indicative of a sexist approach to coworkers.
        OK, he’s not keeping her from a promotion, but she missed a point and looks distracted because she’s replying to his nonsense. He thinks his thoughts about her face are more important than her need to be fully present in the meeting.

        1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

          And even if she’s not replying, the notifications are going to be coming in and still posing a distraction. Blocking him is generally Full Nuclear in an office environment, and may not even be possible based on the system (Slack, for one, refuses to implement a block feature, saying it’s down to HR to solve interpersonal coworker situations). Having to go to Do Not Disturb during a meeting that you’re not presenting in cuts you off from genuinely useful or vital coworker interactions during that time, like your boss going “hey, you’re working on project X and Steve-o just mentioned that, can you address his question when it’s your turn”.

      10. Astor*

        Its incredibly common, but it’s not incredibly common in the “men usually wear pants and not skirts” realm.

        My experience is that most men don’t do this regularly. A man who does this occasionally is probably oblivious to the implications and it’s just the water we all swim in. But a man who does this regularly to more than one woman that he works with? Its much more likely that it’s part of a pattern of how he sees women! I’d be very surprised if it doesn’t play out in other ways that are similarly harmful to the women in the office.

      11. kupo*

        It’s flat out sexist to police women’s facial expressions. People who do this are being sexist. Sure, it’s technically possible that they’re not secust in other ways but most people do have multiple sexist behaviors they simply haven’t examined (or have but decided they like them), and it’s extremely rare to find a unicorn person with only one single way they express a particular bias

      12. Ellis Bell*

        They are miles apart, but those aren’t the only sexist towns in existence. There’s also “I hire women, but I give them different tasks to the guys” and “I hire women but I will tell her she looks hot in a ponytail” and “I hire women but while men are getting development training and facetime with the boss, the girls can plan the Christmas party”, which are also common issues, and a day’s walk from “let me stare at your visage and comment on it”. In fact, the main reason that “I don’t hire women” is so uncommonly distant is because loads of sexists do hire women; they consider it a cheaper and more decorative form of labour.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        I agree.
        Here’s hoping it’s unnecessary, but it’s rarely the only thing a guy will do.
        Don’t ask me how I know….

      2. Sparkles McFadden*

        Yes, screen shots for sure. Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

      3. Somehow I Manage*

        Or, as noted below, if the meetings are being recorded, the chat is also recorded. You could talk to your own manager, and the manager of the consultant if different, and mention that you and another colleague have been getting chat messages about your facial expressions. They’ll be able to go back and look. And it might also uncover other things he’s saying to others that haven’t been reported yet.

        1. Elle*

          I highly doubt he’s saying it in the actual meeting chat. He’s doing it in a private chat, directly to OP.

          1. a trans person*

            Zoom DMs? Likely direct user to user, but still inside the meeting context, if I remember Zoom functionality correctly. I assume those are logged just like the group messages.

            1. Hlao-roo*

              Could be Zoom DMs, but also could be a Zoom meeting and messages through Slack or Microsoft Teams, or a Teams meeting with Slack messages, etc. where the chat messages aren’t recorded as part of the meeting.

            2. Eeeeka*

              I was coming here to say that. Zoom private messages are still visible to the person who set up the meeting and probably to your Zoom admin. Mention it to your boss and see if they say anything to him.

          2. Cherub Cobbler*

            Well, he thinks it’s a private chat. But there’s really no such thing in the work place. That alone is a reason to tell him to knock it off.

        2. Jessica*

          In a zoom meeting you can send messages to Everybody (the main chatstream) or to individuals (if not restricted by the host, which it can be). When I’ve saved the chat from a zoom meeting (including when I was the host), it shows chats I saw–to everyone or to me–but doesn’t reveal messages sent individually among the other participants.
          My point is that I don’t think these 1-to-1 messages are likely to be captured in any routine recording that’s going on.

      4. Oregonbird*

        Or now. How about now? He’s putting it in print now, and policing a woman’s appearance creates a hostile workplace. No need to wait to take the last ten comments about her face and body to HR – along with comments to other victims.

  3. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

    I think it’s worth letting your boss know that this guy is policing the expressions of at least two women in the department during zoom meetings if for no other reason than to cover your butt if the dude takes exception to being called out.

    1. Cabbagepants*

      a milder version that is still very scorching is to make a joke of him and his behavior.

      “uh oh, here comes the face police!”
      “my toddler is just learning the names of different facial expressions, too!”
      (after a senior male congregate colleague speaks, though DM): “what did you think of John’s face this time?”

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Hahaha, I love these responses, especially asking about John’s face. I wouldn’t say the toddler one at work (but still lol) but the other two would probably be ok.

      2. cleo*

        “Who are you, the face police?”
        “Knock it off, you’re making me self-conscious”
        “What a weird thing to say”

    2. ThatOtherClare*

      If your boss is male and clever, it may be possible to point out the sexism covertly and let him connect the dots:

      “Isn’t it annoying when Strategy Man points out your facial expressions every Zoom meeting? Oh, he doesn’t do that to you? He does it to Katherine as well, I just assumed he would be doing it to everyone. Weird.”

      I know and have worked with plenty of alert, intelligent men of good conscience who would instantly read the subtext in the above statement and act on it appropriately.

      1. Ellie*

        What about just looping in your boss? As in, “John keeps making comments about my face in Zoom meetings. It makes me uncomfortable so I’m going to switch my camera off for a while”.

        1. ThatOtherClare*

          Oh, absolutely go for the upfront route first if possible! I think I’m just so used to the high levels of disfunction in many of the letters that end up here that I jumped straight to the assumption that the letter writer had a reason why they couldn’t be direct and upfront with their boss. But you’re right that there’s actually no evidence to suspect that is the case. Yours is definitely the preferred approach for a normally-functioning workplace.

  4. Optimus*

    “How often do you ask male colleagues this question?” …I know, it’s aggressive and scorched-earth. I would ask it, myself, if pushed after every civil attempt has been attempted without success.

    1. SheLooksFamiliar*

      I’d be very tempted to ask that question, or maybe these:

      Why are you asking me that?
      Are you asking everyone on the call about their facial expressions, or just me?
      Is there a reason why you’re not paying attention to the meeting like the rest of us?

      1. MsM*

        Yeah, I’d probably go with some variation of “I’m trying to focus on the meeting. I recommend you do the same.”

      1. MMR*

        Men: if a woman’s face isn’t actively bleeding or rapidly swelling, just don’t comment on it.

        3. ThatOtherClare*

          I wouldn’t go that far. If my teeth have spinach in them and you’re a friendly male colleague please let me know!

          How about: “Only say it if you’d say it to a male colleague who you’re equally friendly with.”

    4. not nice, don't care*

      “Well actually, having my face monitored is causing my expression to show annoyance”.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Hahahaha, just roll your eyes when he asks! (I mean, don’t, because your coworkers who are actually paying attention to the meeting would wonder why you’re rolling your eyes, but that would be hilarious.)

        1. MotherofaPickle*

          If you have to passive-agresaively call him out, this *might* be a good way. If other (lady) coworkers catch on to LW and contact her about it, there could be a major push on management about his guy.

    5. Fluffy Fish*

      I would totally do it. Just tack on a smiley or a lol at the end for plausible deniability.

      After all you’re likely to get a “I was just joking” to you asking them to stop – turn about is fair play, even if its preventative.

      You to can “just be joking.”

    6. KatherineJ*

      My probably terrible and I have no chill left and don’t care anymore answer would be to change to reply all and say “Geez Name, its not very professional to comment on your colleagues’ facial expressions”. But like I said, I have no chill anymore and wouldn’t recommend.

    7. Jane*

      I asked this to a male co-worker at an old job, someone several ranks above me, and I still have no regrets. I’m just so done with men’s awful behavior. (And yes, I recognize the privilege I held to be able to say that to him comfortably.)

    8. Cherub Cobbler*

      That’s scorched earth? When I scorch the earth, it includes some version of “maybe we should talk to HR about that.”

  5. Roscoe da Cat*

    This is one of the reasons I can’t stand being on meetings with video. Especially when a presentation is running so everyone’s face is just a small box at the top.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      As soon as I see his message, my face’s response will be Vex2 – if we keep discussing it, we may approach Vex3 at which point I suggest passengers use their seatbelts

      1. MotherofaPickle*

        If I hit Vex3, all the cussing stops, I get quiet and obscenely polite, and those little air masks drop down from the ceiling. Vex3 = possibility of imminent death.

  7. CheesePlease*

    I would want to respond with a cool “ok.” but know that such a response could sour professional relationships

    1. Jaydee*

      I’d do that. My first response would probably be something like how the LW responded – “I think that’s just my face lol.” The second time would be the same but without the ‘lol.’ And by the 3rd time I’d be somewhere on the “okay”—>“ok”—>“k” spectrum depending on just how annoyed and dismissive I felt in the moment.

      1. Dana*

        How about a matter of fact, “your comments on my facial expressions are making me uncomfortable and self conscious. Could you please stop.” If he blows past that boundary it’s straight up sexual harassment you can bring to his manager or HR, since he has been asked to stop.

    2. not nice, don't care*

      Dude has already soured professional relationships. Let the awkward return to him like a firehose.

      1. Oregonbird*

        A scary percentage of responders seem to be devoted to keeping the guy from feeling insecure. He’s creating a hostile atmosphere towards multiple women and the advice is ‘pretend it’s not happening.’

        That is not a good response to blatant sexism.

        1. Exit Persued by a Bear*

          I think the problem is a scary percentage of responders know there’s a possibility of there being repercussions for OP if she upsets him. Of course, she should absolutely be able to shut him right down, and not have to worry about taking a professional hit, but it’s unrealistic to believe that’ll definitely be the case.

            1. MigraineMonth*

              I disagree with several of responses, but I’d bet you money that most of us commenting who are suggesting starting with “soft”/face-saving responses are not allies. We’re waist-deep in the same shit, and we’ve seen the ways that assertiveness and making men feel uncomfortable about being sexist can be used against women.

              If LW wants to harshly shut this person down and make it clear to him and everyone else that she will not tolerate this kind of sexist behavior, that is her prerogative and I will cheer her ever step of the way. Unfortunately, the reality of a sexist world is that there is a high chance she will pay a price for that (such as being labeled as “difficult” or “abrasive”, not a team player, etc), and pretending otherwise isn’t helpful.

              1. coffee*

                Yes, agreed. If this could be easily solved by being assertive then the LW would have already done it! And I am tired of seeing women ask for advice and then get advice that will cause trouble for them.

            2. Argiope Aurantia*

              A scary percentage sound like people who have lost jobs and promotions because we hurt a man’s feelings at work by enforcing professional boundaries.

              There is still a very real power imbalance in our society, where women are blamed for men’s negative feelings about themselves. In some settings, a woman can lose her life for standing up for herself. In other settings, she can lose her sole source of income.

              Only the individual women in those individual circumstances can judge if it’s safe to be forthright with their pushback or if they need to soft-pedal it. (Or not push back at all).

              It’s only helpful to give comments based on the reality we live in, and not the one we wished were true.

          2. Oregonbird*

            She is paid to work, not make herself available as a sexist’s therapy punch pillow. Consider what can *actually* happen due to the OP calling out body policing in the workplace. She would be heard. She would have drawn a line. She would have the whole thing on screenshot, along with multiple other instances if his telling women about their appearance.

            Scared? Why?

            1. Student*

              Because they tend to have more power than us. They tend to circle the wagons around badly-behaving men, then make the complaining woman miserable. This lets them maintain the power imbalance and protect their ability to treat us poorly.

              I’ve had guys make my life and job miserable for telling them to shove it when they are sexist. It’ll almost certainly happen to me again.

              Getting angry at women who want to keep their heads down is pointless. Save your anger for the men who shove womens’ heads down, please.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          That’s because an insecure man can damage one’s professional reputation and limit one’s opportunities. It sucks, but until it isn’t true, balancing the repercussions of standing up for oneself with the benefits will always be necessary.

          1. MassMatt*

            I was going to say this. It’s fine for us to be outraged 2nd hand but calling this out could have real repercussions to the OP.

            Also, there’s lots of discussion about what a sexist jerk this guy is and not nearly enough discussion of how creepy he’s being. IMO there’s a good chance he thinks this is some sort of easily deniable come-on to the OP and the other coworker he’s doing it to.

            1. Interview Coming Up*

              I thought of this too. By drawing attention to a physical attribute, doing it privately, insinuating that they understand what the OP is thinking or feeling, trying to start a conversation…

            2. Oregonbird*

              What repurcusdions do you see as likely for saying, “I’d like you to stop commenting on my body language, please – your interest is not appreciated, and is distracting.”

              What scares you about setting such a normal boundary?

              1. AF Vet*

                1. He could freeze you out of things – not answer your questions in a timely fashion, withhold information that will make you look bad, etc.
                2. He can simply not suggest adding you to a project that would help you climb the ladder or he knows you’d be interested in.
                3. He can talk crap about you with other men in the office – and if you have no or cowardly allies, THEY will also implement steps 1 and 2.
                It’s all plausible deniability ways to make your work miserable without actively triggering HR. And this is if he chooses NOT to be a creep.

                I would call him on his actions – “Hmmm… have you told John about his face today? No? Then lay off mine.” “Hmmm… your face looks as creepy as your actions right now.” Etc. BUT I’m old, fat, a veteran who was 1 of 3 women in my entire unit of roughly 100, and have no figs left to give. I am NOT young, attractive, new to the workforce, a people-pleaser, or that worried about my personal safety. If someone is any of the above, she has every right to make a different choice. And we DON’T get to gaslight her into thinking that it’s all so easy, just black and white, trust HR / boss to do the right thing

      2. Anna*

        Absolutely this. HE soured it. We women have been conditioned to put up with this nonsense and “keep the peace”.

        1. TheBunny*

          What’s wrong with assertive and respectful? Why, to shut down problematic behavior is the only option to be awful? It’s possible to be assertive without being rude. It’s possible to stand up for yourself without slinging mud. It’s possible to shut down rudeness by being direct and polite.

          It’s not keeping the peace…it’s being able to feel proud of how you handled a situation after It’s over.

    3. Ranibow Sprimklepants (she/her)*

      Yeah this would be my response, or just “?”
      Just like, distracted confusion that he’s talking to you instead of paying attention.
      And then increasing the number of “?” each reply:
      “??”
      “???”

    4. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

      I wouldn’t respond in a way that implies he has a right to comment. I would go with “Why would you ask/say that?” He’s trying to undermine her, and whoever else he needles like this. LW and her coworker/s should take control of the conversation.

    5. learnedthehardway*

      Well, the professional relationship has already been damaged by the other person, so I wouldn’t worry too much about that.

    6. Ellis Bell*

      I actually think this is genius and not impolite at all. I completely take the point other people are saying that he needs to be soothed and made to feel like the joke has landed…that can absolutely be the case, but not necessarily. If OP does not fear him professionally but is simply at a social loss of dealing with someone making inane comments.. this is gold.

  8. Nicosloanica*

    I admit, if I wanted to maintain a good coworker relationship with this guy I’d probably try a very soft approach first – “Sorry, I know you don’t mean anything by it, but it makes me very self conscious when I feel like you’re monitoring my expressions so closely! I’m just paying attention to the changes to the TPS reports.” Then I’d probably give him the opportunity to be collegial on another topic (“what do you think of the new llama brushes?”) to steer him in the conversational direction I’d like. However I totally understand if you’re more inclined to just cut this guy off and get him to stop messaging you.

      1. Resume please*

        Unfortunately, thst might lead to a “Whoa whoa whoa! Sorry if I offended you, didn’t mean for you to make it such a big deal! You should relax. Fun police over here” or other infuriating b.s. along those lines.

        As awful as it is, not responding at all might be the best option.

        1. Oregonbird*

          You think a response making it clear he isn’t taking her request for a normal business boundary would be too frightening to the OP? Or that being dismissed would be too upsetting, rather than – with the next policing msg added to his earlier body policing notes – exactly what she needs to turn the issue over to her manager or HR? A little courage here!

    2. Awkwardness*

      but it makes me very self conscious

      Don’t say that.
      This guy is out of line: he is not paying attention to the meeting but to his female colleagues, he distracts them during the meeting with pointless messages they did not ask for. You do not tell somebody who is this much overstepping that he actually got to you.

    3. spreadsheet hero*

      Nooooooo absolutely do not tell him it makes you feel self-conscious. If he’s the kind of guy who thinks he gets to dictate how your face should look, you feeling self-conscious is a feature, rather than a bug. It’s like telling somebody who’s negging you, “That makes me feel bad.” Yes, that was the point.

    4. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

      Oh no no no. This is not a professional response, at all.

      1. Sloanicota*

        It’s okay to say that you would handle this differently – and I certainly see all the people saying they would say “never talk to me about my face again” – but I think it’s a stretch to say my script is *unprofessional.* I wouldn’t be concerned about my boss reading my response and deciding I can’t handle my job, or whatever; therefore I think it’s professional. Unless my profession is street boxing or something. This is a fine thing to say first, and you can always escalate as necessary.

        1. Not the class clown*

          I wouldn’t recommend saying that for the reasons people have mentioned above, but I don’t find it at all unprofessional. What about it is unprofessional to you?

          1. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

            Going into feelings, it making her feel insecure: a co-worker is taking it upon himself to face-police (unprofessional on his part). Responding “softly and “oh gosh it’s not you it’s me I feel insecure” is a flattering response. I would call that unprofessional in the circumstances.

    5. Azure Jane Lunatic*

      I might go for the “I know you don’t mean anything by it, but I don’t need anyone monitoring and commenting on my expressions during meetings. It distracts me from the meeting when I get messages like that, and I’m trying to pay attention to the changes to the TPS reports.” With or without “So please stop doing that” depending on whether it seems safe. Specifying “messages like that during the meeting” seems like a weaker position because it sounds to me like an invitation for him to save up his comments for after the meeting, which is just as demoralizing and infuriating.

      Nothing about emotions, but it’s distracting and that distraction has a business impact.

      The conversation with your boss if you’re trying to keep it as Not A Serious Problem could be “So I’ve noticed a thing where Teapot Consultant Wakeen comments on my facial expressions during meetings; it isn’t at all helpful and it’s distracting while I’m trying to pay attention to the meeting. I’ve asked him to knock it off, I hope it won’t become a whole thing.”

  9. lost academic*

    Softening the response as Alison mentions is a sure fire way to have to repeat it more directly since this isn’t a once or twice occasional comment. You can shut it down directly without burning professional bridges. Being ignored isn’t really going to stop the problem – maybe there’s an outside chance it’ll stop it for you but it’s already occurring with others. On top of that, the guy’s a contractor – not all are created equal, but he doesn’t have the same protections or standing as a regular employee and he apparently doesn’t see that. So the more subtle and soft the response is, the more likely it’s a total waste of time.

    1. TheBunny*

      Not necessarily. He’s 1 of 2 possibilities…he thinks he’s funny and has no intention of being sexist…or he’s absolutely looking at women as objects.

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying a softer comment at first. I believe you should always assume the best with people until you know for certain. In this case, we’re it me, I’d start with at least pretending to assume he meant nothing by it.

      At the end of the day this has the potential, just like any workplace confrontation, to resolve quickly or messily. I’d start with the assumption that the minute he becomes aware of what he’s doing, he’ll stop.

      If he doesn’t, escalate…firm in the knowledge you gave the person the benefit of the doubt and they proved you wrong.

      1. Lost academic*

        His intention is irrelevant given these actions. And no, there’s really no chance he thinks he’s being funny.

        1. Silver Robin*

          No, there is a HUGE chance he thinks he is being funny and friendly. Men often assume women play along with/buy into the sexism games and enjoy them the same way men do.

          Intention (and context! this is work! he is senior!) matters because somebody who is generally acting in good faith/not maliciously, responds to the softer correction well and the whole thing can be resolved without OP having to prepare for battle the same way. If the person does not respond well, then OP knows for absolute certain that she *can* prepare for battle and escalate and she has crossed all her professional t’s, dotted all her i’s, and nobody can say she jumped the gun. This is strategic and useful.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        I think he absolutely doesn’t know what he’s doing and yet it’s the kind of thing where he only has to look inward a millimetre to see what he’s doing. It would actually be a kindness to drop him a hint. I don’t think the OP is responsible for his progress on that but if she wanted to: “I know that’s a joke, but as a friend you don’t want to come across as scrutinising or even just commenting on women’s faces in meetings”, or “This is friendly advice,
        but you shouldn’t be implying that your participation in this meeting involves watching my face” if he comes in with a follow up defensiveness, you’ve already broken the ice of the topic and can be more clear “I was honestly a bit taken aback”.

  10. Brain the Brian*

    I’ve commented before about how my workplace bans side conversations during group meetings. It’s a draconian overreaction to blanket-ban all side conversations, but this is part of why.

      1. Brain the Brian*

        I have learned that the action of picking up a coffee mug to take a sip every now and again is enough to keep me awake.

  11. Mentally Spicy*

    I’m on the spectrum. My face is an open book. Generally anything I think is visibly written in my facial expression and body language. It takes a real effort of will to keep my face neutral. It’s got me in trouble on many occasions!

    (And as an aside, as a man with resting bitch face, I have had many fellow men comment on my facial expressions and tell me to “cheer up”, etc. I hope that doesn’t detract from the main points, because that’s not my intention, but I do feel like stating that for the record.)

    1. Minimal Pear*

      Yes, while I think the gender distinction here is very important because this IS so often a form of sexism, I know I’ve heard that men of color and disabled men can have this experience as well.

  12. Problem!*

    I’d give a dead stare into the camera and not respond to his message.

    I once got dinged on a performance review for “not smiling enough” in a non-customer facing role. I asked them if was I supposed to be grinning at my computer screen all day while alone in my cube which would make me look even more deranged and unapproachable than having RBF, and also informed them I had asked around and no men were given the same feedback. They fell all over themselves trying to take it back but I reported it up the chain anyway. My face was never mentioned again.

    5. teacherandhiker*

      This is what has always gotten to me with the “smile!” comments. Like…you want me to walk around with a grin on my face for no reason? That’s weird!

    8. MigraineMonth*

      That’s great!

      One of my performance reviews said something vague about an abrasive communication style. I asked for an example. Instead of giving me one, my manager deleted that line from the review.

      1. PleaseNo*

        I had the same thing in my review. I also asked my manager for examples. funny thing is, she couldn’t think of any. she said she had to think about it. 3 weeks later she gave me an example :/

        I left 3 months later to bigger and better things.

  13. Rey*

    I don’t have a lot of experience working with consultants, and I’m not totally clear who the consultant reports to. Is it worth bringing this up to the person who handles their contract at the company? Or is that only necessary if the consultant continues to do this after being explicitly asked to stop?

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I would think that whoever handles the contract at the company would be at least somewhat put-out if they learned that this consultant, who presumably is being paid a good chunk of money, is DMing people in meetings to have what is, at best, a non-work conversation. Obviously the subject of the DM is also ridiculous, but it’s worth bringing up the fact that he keeps distracting OP in meetings regardless of the subject of the DMs.

      And if OP works at a decent company, they will be alarmed at the subject matter, especially if other people report that he’s doing the same to them. Ugh, how very tiresome this guy is.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Sorry, I mean this *contractor*. I see that it’s a consulting firm but this guy is a contractor, which I presume means he’s not an employee but that the employees are all consultants.

  14. zuzu*

    Since “weird” seems to be rather effective these days, maybe point out how weird it is that he’s been monitoring your facial expressions rather than paying attention to the meeting.

    “I find it a bit weird that you’ve been paying such close attention to my facial expressions in meeting after meeting instead of paying attention to the presentations. What’s up with that?” And, after whatever lame justification he offers, “Please stop commenting on my face. Thank you.”

    Bonus points if these meetings are recorded, since that means the chats, even the direct chats, are also recorded. Did he know that?

    2. Lex Talionis*

      Also he is a contractor, correct? So that means your company is paying him to criticize you? I’d point that out…

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Right? I just commented as much on another thread. I love that zuzu pointed out that he’s doing this instead of, you know, paying attention to the mtg he’s being paid to pay attention to.

        Wowsers, do I want an update on this question!

    3. Charlotte Lucas*

      I bet this is DMs. But no reason she can’t do a screenshot when he makes these comments.

      1. zuzu*

        Oh, but the DMs on Zoom get picked up as well on a recorded meeting. Which many people have discovered to their chagrin.

        If it’s not being recorded, she does need to be screenshotting this.

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          True. But not if you are using the separate chat function. (Not tied to the meeting.)

  15. Awkwardness*

    If this habit was only starting to develop and I had an otherwise good relationship with him, I would laugh it away.
    “Haha, you are right! But… let’s pay attention to Jane presenting. This is more important than my face expression” Maybe add an emoji to soften the message.
    With the pattern established, maybe call it out while it is happening. “All those messages about my facial expression are getting a bit old. This is my face.” Add the emoji shrugging their shoulders.

    1. Love me, love my cat*

      I would never tell this creeper he was right, not even if he just gave me a weather report.

      1. Awkwardness*

        I would not share if I was annoyed and he catched that, as it would create closeness. But if there was something funny, why not?
        My main point was to casually add that the face expression is not relevant.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I think the OP already said this stuff? They used an emoji and said something about how it’s just their face. The shrug emoji does add something, though. I agree with both of you that it’s the instinctual move to hint to death and hope the guy gets a clue. I think as women we are conditioned to try the softest and most face saving response. I think OP is left feeling a bit unsatisfied after trying it, but who knows maybe he took the hint.

  16. Anna*

    He’s not being friendly. He’s a creeper. Woman get this all the time and are too nice. Never again send a happy face. I had to point blank tell someone to stop scrutinizing me. He would tell me what I was doing in the parking lot, in my car at lunch, etc. “Stop commenting on my face, thanks”.

    1. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I honestly think you could even say, “Stop distracting me from the meeting” but “Stop commenting on my face” is the perfect, terse response.

      1. Accidental Manager*

        I’m inclined to respond really simply -‘Don’t care.”
        Then don’t engage ever again.

  17. ResuMAYDAY*

    In a response, point out any man in the meeting (who may have a completely neutral expression) and say, “he looks a bit vexed – maybe he needs to hear from you, too!”
    That would be a firm but gentle way of leading this guy to a gender-based conclusion about his notes.

    2. Van Wilder*

      That suggestion made me lol but I think it would go right over Face-Commenter’s head.

    3. MsM*

      I don’t know – I’d be worried he’d decide he’d successfully established a bond and keep making comments. Which might at least mean he’s just equal opportunity weird, but doesn’t solve the problem.

    4. Ess Ess*

      I wouldn’t do that. I could see creeper using this to send the man a message “ResuMAYDAY things you look vexed.”

      2. ResuMAYDAY*

        The LW has already asked men if he does this to him. So pick out a guy you know, and ask him about it later. This guy is annoying, but not dangerous.

  18. Serious silly putty*

    Yes to previous suggestions of documenting it. Also, I’d love it if you told him this: “We’re starting to keep tally of how often you comment on men’s vs women’s faces.”

    2. Resume please*

      Ooh nice, the “We’ve” would also cause him pause. He’d want this type of interaction to be in isolation

    4. Ellis Bell*

      I actually love this. It could be seen as sort of jokey, and taking the piss, but it is actually really clear about what he needs to do differently.

  20. JSPA*

    “Odd! I don’t notice people’s expressions when I’m in a meeting, and I’m surprised you do.”

  21. Somehow I Manage*

    I’ve had several conversations with close colleagues about my/their/others’ need to watch reactions in a meeting, virtual or otherwise. One work friend who was in marketing jokingly reminded me and another colleague to remember our “PR face” in certain situations, and often joked about her own need to “fix her face” when someone said something particularly odd. But all of that is well-intentioned and well-received among people with whom I’m close. I think doing this to someone you don’t know well or work with closely is really odd and kind of creepy. I think I’d ignore it, but would be really, really tempted to just reply, “stop commenting on my face and facial expressions.”

    1. El*

      I agree with this completely. I’ve had this issue with a lot of the newer hires in my office recently–we are not friends! Don’t assume you can joke around with me!

  22. CommanderBanana*

    I remember sitting in a Zoom meeting at my last org with 2 other people with what I thought was a nice, pleasant, neutral expression on my face, and after the meeting ended one of the people on it burst into my office and started flipping out about how I was “laughing at her” during the meeting.

    I mean, this person had issues – you could sneeze and offend her – but sheesh.

  23. H.Regalis*

    Does Zoom have a black hole sun filter? If it did, I’d change my face to be one of those creepy smiles.

    In all seriousness, this dude is being sexist—even if he’ll never admit it—and you should feel free to use whatever work-polite language to tell him to fuck off with that shit.

    1. Unkempt Flatware*

      Bonus points if you can manage it while eating a rapidly melting ice cream cone.

  24. Dr. Rebecca*

    I would start rolling my eyes whenever that message comes in. Oh, you think I’m vexed? No, NOW I’m vexed.

    1. Awkwardness*

      I find it difficult to send a message through video. If you act neutral enough for it not to be obvious your are chatting, then the face expression might also be directed to the presenter/content.
      If it is clear that it is about a chat message, you might get questions why you are not paying attention

  25. Bad Thing*

    Years ago, I had a guy coworker do this kind of thing to me (gal) a lot. Finally I just said: “Bob, are you perhaps projecting YOUR thoughts onto MY expressions? I totally understand if you’re just trying to make conversation and I like to hear your take, but your read on my face has been pretty off the past several times you’ve mentioned it. Maybe I’m just difficult to read?” I said it upbeat, and cheerful – like ‘of course its probably my fault you can’t read me’ kind of vibe.

    He retreated from assuming my feelings/emotions after that, but would occasionally joke that I WAS “difficult to read.” Now that I’m more seasoned I’m not sure I’d go this route again. And frankly that behaviorwas the tip of the iceberg with that guy.

  26. Princess Consuela Banana Hammock*

    The only viable solution is to use the cat avatar replacement feature in Zoom.

    2. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

      I’d be tempted to use my actual cat. Nobody does resting grouch like my tuxedo.

      (Also, PCBH. Big fan of yours from reading the archives. You’ve always had such good insight)

  27. Oregonbird*

    This advice seems so passively accepting of misogynistic behavior. ‘Oh, just ignore the sexist, don’t make things wierd’ is as close to doormatting as I’ve ever seen on this site.

    In more than fifty years as an active feminist, the central tenet of equality has always been “Speak Up!”

    OP, I’d suggest Naming the Behavior. ‘Gerald, you’ve been messaging multiple women about your opinion on our facial expressions and body language during meetings. This is sexist behavior acknowledged by employers to create discomfort in the workplace. May I suggest that, rather than examining your female coworkers’ features and bodies and inform them of your opinion, you focus on meeting content? Thank you.

    1. not nice, don't care*

      Thank you for calling that out. Just when I think ‘kids these days’ might have their shit together, responses like these utterly disappoint. Be an upstander, not a bystander. Even if it hurts. Sometimes we have to take a few hits to win the war.

      1. Sloanicota*

        In response to “you look vexed LOL” ? I feel like other people read a different letter than me. He didn’t like, flash OP. He made an annoying bid for attention that was unwelcome. And no need to make this generational.

        1. kupo*

          He commented on her body in a way that he does not comment on men’s bodies. What part of that *isn’t* wildly inappropriate?

      2. MigraineMonth*

        You realize that phrase is encouraging people *other than the marginalized/targeted group* to speak out about discrimination they witness? That the reason allies are important is because people within the marginalized/targeted group are already dealing with discrimination and bias, their objections are less likely to be listened to, and they are more likely to experience negative repercussions from doing so?

        I’ve burned a manager reference standing up for a female colleague. I don’t regret it, but it’s a fact that if someone asks him about my work, he will make a comment about me being abrasive/brusque/rude. It’s a tradeoff we need to balance against success and a good life.

        1. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

          This. People in the marginalized/targeted group are always free to pick their battles.

          Although as a middle manager who now has knowledge that it isn’t just a her issue, but other women are affected, I would say there is a responsibility to speak up if this person is on calls with someone at a lower level who may not feel they have the power to speak up.

    2. zuzu*

      I think that calling it sexist behavior is going just a step beyond Naming the Behavior and into Drawing the Conclusion About What the Behavior Means or His Intent in Engaging In the Behavior.

      It absolutely is sexist, and we all know it’s sexist, but the behavior is easier to call out without allowing for any kind of wiggle room than the intent behind it. Your script, minus the one sentence, gets the job done.

      “Sexist” is unfortunately a conclusion rather than a fact-based observation and allows for a lot more squirming than simply stating what is known and indisputable: Gerald, you’ve been 1) direct messaging 2) multiple women and 3) only women 4) during multiple Zoom meetings and 5) commenting on their facial expressions, 6) instead of paying attention to the meeting and 7) distracting them from being able to pay attention to the meeting(s) and 8) continuing to do so after they’ve asked you to stop.

      A good boss will see all that laid out (hopefully with screenshots of the offending messages) and come to the conclusion that Gerald is being sexist. Even a mediocre one ought to realize that he’s goofing off in meetings. Either way, he’s a problem for the company.

    3. AF Vet*

      I’ve read multiple comments from you and sadly I get a very “How tight were her jeans” vibe. Sometimes for personal or professional safety you have to soften the message. This doesn’t make you a bad feminist. This doesn’t mean you’re allowing men to get away with (very probably) sexist BS. This does mean you still need to value the professional relationship / connections, know your boss or HR won’t back you up, or know that the minute you bring it up you’ll suffer repercussions you don’t have the bandwidth to deal with – and all of that is okay, relevant, and worth considering. If I was LW, you and some of the other responses of CaLl OuT ThIs SeXiSt JeRk would be incredibly frustrating. It feels like gaslighting and dismissing any real life consequences for those who have shared when it went badly. I was 1 of 3 women in a unit of 100. And I was run out of the entire military because I was not a perfect Barbie doll (the other women in my unit were lovely people, but they were more conventionally tiny and attractive). Yes, sometimes you can call a sexist jerk out on their actions with no professional repercussions. But sometimes? You can’t. That doesn’t make you any less valuable or worthy.

    4. Ellis Bell*

      The OP is the expert on their situation and on how much they can do. Possibly speaking up loudly and clearly is a great idea for them, and as a suggestion it’s fine, but I think it’s unhelpful to sneer at those who can’t. I don’t think going off into fanfic is a good idea though. At no point in this interaction was anyone’s body referred to and if “stop looking at our bodies” is as eye rolling as “why aren’t you smiling”, it looks like “pin every sexist action ever commited to this one guy” time.

  28. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

    Ugh. This reads to me as a socially awkward person who’s using this as an excuse to talk to you/get attention from you. It doesn’t rise to the level of involving management, IMO, but you are well within your rights to find it objectionable and to push back on it. Possible scripts for shutting it down:

    “Why are you telling me this?”

    “Is there a reason you’re watching me during this meeting instead of the presenter?”

    “This makes me uncomfortable.”

    Alison’s suggestion of just not responding is good too. No attention = no payoff, and this will discourage it. Good luck, LW.

    1. Argiope Aurantia*

      Can we not give creeper guys a pass by labeling all of them “socially awkward”?

      You realize he’s only being “socially awkward” to the women, right?

      2. Ellie*

        Women are soft targets, lets face it. We’re socialised to put up with this crap, and when we don’t, our complaints are minimised anyway. The socially awkward latch on to that. Doesn’t make it right, but it happens.

      3. allathian*

        A bit of a tangent, but most socially awkward people are at their most awkward when they’re trying to start a conversation with a person whose appearance matches the gender they’re attracted to, and especially with a person they find attractive. It certainly was for me when I was a teen and very interested in boys but unable to talk to them sensibly. I’d blush and mumble if a boy asked me the time. Life got so much easier when I finally learned to talk to my male classmates in my junior year in high school. Part of it was simply maturing, but much of it happened because I joined my high school drama club (there’s nothing quite like the kick I got from a standing ovation at the end of a successful performance) and got my first retail job.

        That said, being socially awkward is never an excuse for boorish or sexist behavior.

      4. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

        I didn’t give anyone a pass, and if you had bothered to read my comment past the word you stopped to nitpick, you would have picked up on that.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      Ah, the ‘man is a socially awkward’ person is here, and me without my bingo card.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Sorry, I realise that wasn’t particularly constructive or kind. Your larger point, your approach, and scripts are definitely ones I would use and that’s the main thing. I just dislike the term when it’s used about sexism intensely, but I’m nitpicking a word you didn’t dwell on at all, and take responsibility for that.

    3. LCH*

      ugh, tell him to go watch Male Coworker’s face for awhile and leave you alone.

      jk, use Pool Noodle’s language.

  29. The Rafters*

    The only time in 40 years of working have I made a comment about faces was b/c a coworker slipped a joke into his presentation that I caught right away, and I watched as the joke hilariously and somewhat slowly dawned on everyone else. I didn’t catch one person’s reaction b/c he caught it as quickly as I did and immediately turned his camera off. Otherwise, there is no reason to comment on anyone’s face.

  30. MotherofaPickle*

    When I was a TA many moons ago, I had a student who was not that much older than I approach me on the bus and start gushing about how “expressive” my face was during lecture and how he loved to watch me. I had to exit the bus a mile from my home just to extricate, and protect, myself.

    I have since tried to school myself in facial expressions. My neutral happy face, I think, looks like I’m thinking about something not unpleasant (it has certainly fooled male boomers, IME). My RBF, unfortunately, is more R and less BF.

    My advice: Call him out on it, professionally. “Why are you watching me so much? Shouldn’t you be paying attention to the meeting?” And start trying to school your face.

    1. Persephone Mulberry*

      LW’s face is her face. She doesn’t need to school it in order to passify one boundary-stomping colleague.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Particularly since this is happening to multiple women, having facial expressions clearly isn’t an issue that the LW actually has. I’m guessing a complete poker face would still get comments.

        One of my pet peeves is other people telling me what I must be feeling based on my expression, so this would piss me off so much. No, in fact, I wasn’t annoyed until you told me that I was. *Now* I’m annoyed.

  31. Rosyglasses*

    I have a boss that does this but not the “you’re not smiling” and more the “poker face!” reminder. I do NOT have one, and if I don’t like what I’m hearing it shows LOL. I actually appreciate it because sometimes I get distracted on big calls and it’s a good reminder to plaster my less RBF on.

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      And that’s reasonable. Your boss knows you and is letting you know something important.

    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      I had to do this with my former boss when we had a terrible lying and manipulative coworker on another team. Whenever we were in mtgs with that person we would constantly msg each other “Grey rock! Grey rock!” (Which is a term used to describe being completely non-reactive to people who are trying to get a reaction out of you. Very difficult to pull off, but also very effective.)

    4. AnonForThis*

      I really need to practice my poker face for whenever someone brings up the fact that we’re going to be “Transitioning to the New Software Soon”.

      It took us two years to put together the committee that will choose the consultants that will help us generate the requirements for the search for the new software. “Soon” will be at least 10 years from now, and that’s if leadership doesn’t get replaced (or get distracted by something shiny) and start the whole process over again, just like they did the last time we tried to transition to new software.

  32. Charlotte Lucas*

    I probably wouldn’t do this, but I would be so tempted to stop the meeting or wait until a discussion portion to ask him about it. In front of everyone.

    Otherwise, I would document and tell him to stop monitoring my face.

  33. Specialist*

    I have unfortunately had to deal with this more often than I’d care to remember. I am now old and of (well over) mentor age. I speak up because I should. I explain it as you would explain a local phrase to a person from another country. Very factual, non-judgmental, what it means, and when you should or should not use it. In this case, I would basically explain just as this thread has played out.

    “Dude, it was at one time common to make commentary on women’s facial expressions and appearances. This is not recommended anymore as it makes commenter come off as sexist or creepy. You should know that your comments have been a topic of discussion already. It has been noted that you only make these comments to women. I recommend that you avoid commentary about your coworkers’ appearances and expressions.”

    1. TeaCoziesRUs*

      I like this for us elders. Then again, I love stepping into my Wise Crone. :) I’d do this (after getting their permission!) for any younger woman in my office who is experiencing this jerk’s comments.

  34. Jessica*

    This might be more fantasy than strategy, but what I’d like to do is
    (1) recruit a friendly man who’ll be at the meeting to be my accomplice, or better yet several, as many as possible;
    (2) assign each of them a different time delay (Steve, respond immediately; Bob, wait 90 seconds, etc.), figure out your messaging channel, and have everyone stand by;
    (3) wait for it. when AnnoyingSexistGuy messages you about your face, you don’t reply, but you sound the alarm to your allies. For the next 5-10 minutes, he gets a staggered barrage:
    Steve: You look vexed ;-)
    Bob: You seem irritated, everything ok?
    Fred: wow you look really annoyed.
    ETC. Repeat (and savor) as needed.

    2. Argiope Aurantia*

      I actually think this would be fine to do IRL.

      One, it shows Creeper Contractor that OP has male allies.

      Two, he gets to see how annoying it is.

      Three, OP would get to say, “It was all in good fun, just like Creeper Contractor’s message to me!” if he ever complains.

    3. TheBunny*

      I can feel the pitchforks heading my way as I write this, so skewer me all you want. It sort of just makes my point anyway.

      That said…the comments here are really disappointing to me. Really disappointing.

      Is this what we teach our kids? To go at people guns blazing no matter how big or small the mistake or lapse in judgment? Do we want the book thrown at kids in schools because they made a mistake? Are we past giving people a chance to learn from mistakes?

      Is this really the world we want to live in, where every single thing we do wrong is THE WORST POSSIBLE EXAMPLE OF HUMANITY EVER with no grace, no benefit of the doubt, nothing?

      All of the commenters telling LW to go at this guy like he committed the most vile of sins don’t have to live with themselves and their behavior after, this situation isn’t “real” to them, it’s an internet comment section. My goodness…if his reaction is sincere apology, will you feel better about yourself because you were aggressive and yelled???? Will the apology and change of the behavior mean more because you got to berate him first????

      They don’t have to work at LW’S place of employment. They don’t have to live (at least I hope, some might) in a world where there are no mistakes and no small transgressions, only huge major ones that must be called out aggressively.

      People make mistakes. This guy might be a sexist pig. He also might be just that clueless.

      LW…were it me, I’d ask him nicely to stop and I’d tell him why. I would be respectful and direct. If he’s a jerk, well then it’s going to escalate. If he’s clueless, then you’ve avoided making an uncomfortable and frustrating situation even worse. There’s nothing to lose in going into this with the belief he’s a person who, when he knows better he does better.

      If he’s not? All LW (and anyone else in a similar sort of mess) lose is the time it took to give another person the benefit of the doubt and the chance to be better.

      1. kupo*

        A) I haven’t seen anyone advocating for anything extreme
        B) This behavior is sexist. Full stop.
        C) It serves as a reminder to women that we’re not seen as colleagues or equals, but as decoration
        D) Would you prefer a world where women just meekly avoid hurting men’s feelings by apologizing for their bad behavior towards us or would you rather a world where we bluntly call a spade a spade?

      3. Awkwardness*

        I’d ask him nicely to stop and I’d tell him why. (…) If he’s a jerk, well then it’s going to escalate. If he’s clueless, then you’ve avoided making an uncomfortable and frustrating situation even worse.

        Well put. A lot of comments are fantasizing as if there is no worklife after the call out. Maybe this guy is one of a handful of contractors with a certain knowledge and LW cannot avoid working with him? Women are not required to go full scorched earth just because feminism.

      4. TeaCoziesRUs*

        Concur, Bunny. It honestly never occurred to me to see others commenting on my face as a bad thing until just a few years ago – and I’m in my 40s. I can see this guy being a sexist jerk. I can also see him being a clueless goof who is trying to get a chuckle out of someone he considers a friend, ESPECIALLY if he’s my age. For better or worse, I wasn’t brought up to think this way. I’m glad I’m learning (and unleashing) now, but I had to be TAUGHT. I like your script if “Stop commenting on my face. Your comments on my appearance / facial expressions are annoying.” IF you think he’ll take a learning moment from you or another coworker, then clue him in on how focusing on appearance objectifies / how he’s only doing it to women / focusing on appearance, rather than competence leads to larger issues women experience in the workplace. But if you don’t have the bandwidth, or he won’t receive it well from you, you DON’T have to own his education! You DON’T need to carry that emotional labor.

    2. Sarah*

      Agree with this. I’d even add asking how many guys he asks that to, or some comment so he realises that it’s purely sexist

  36. Lunch Meat*

    This is not the solution to sexism, but for anyone who does have difficulty maintaining control of your facial expression when frustrated, I recommend having a cat on your lap for frustrating meetings. Petting them is very calming.

  37. Mrs. Hawiggins*

    Years ago someone told me, “Smile, it is not so bad,” to which I replied, “Oh, are you about to vomit too?” I had a massive migraine and was walking to my car to go home. I often wonder if he ever said that again to anyone, male or female. Pain gives you RBH too.

      1. Mrs. Hawiggins*

        It is, I laugh about it now of course. I think about his face when I said it, like someone just fed him a lemon. I suppose if it happens again I could bring that line back if the mood strikes. Fortunately my migraines are under control, now.

    3. Cedrus Libani*

      Years ago, a boss told me about a man who said the same. She glared at him, and replied, “There’s a nice family in my office, and I’m about to tell them that their four-year-old has terminal cancer.” That was a lie – we weren’t patient facing, we were researchers – but if you’re IN A HOSPITAL and still feel compelled to tell random female strangers to smile, you deserve it.

  38. Lalitah*

    LW – if you can, save every chat instance of this behavior so you have proof that there is a pattern when you choose to address it with the colleague or are asked about their behavior in any way.

  39. Persephone Mulberry*

    LW has already softened the message once; if it happens again, time to get blunt.

  40. alternate perspective?*

    For context, I’m a female in a very male-dominated field (my normal corporate cafeteria group has 12 men to one lady). I’m definitely not unfamiliar with problematic behavior that arises from this dynamic, whether intended or not. However, I’ve also both sent and receieved very similar messages – albeit only to and from colleagues who I’m quite friendly with (both male and female). Is there a chance the guy just thinks he’s on very familiar terms with you and making jokes or trying to commiserate in how vexing (or boring) a meeting is?

  41. TotesMaGoats*

    I thought #1 was going to be about making people laugh in zoom meetings. My coworkers and I go hard care to make people crack a smile in meetings. Epic group texts.

    1. TheBunny*

      Why not soften it the first time? Why not go into this with the assumption he’s an idiot and doesn’t know what he’s even doing? Maybe no one has every told him he’s being a sexist jerk?

      Not everything needs to be scorched earth, leave nothing behind.

      Does he deserve LW to be kind? Maybe, maybe not. But were it me, I’d rather look back on how I handled this and be able to think “ok I gave him the benefit of the doubt and that worked (yay) or didn’t work and I then took the nuclear option”.

      Is it just me who sees it this way? Based on most of the comments here, it is. But I will ALWAYS take the high road and I will ALWAYS assume good intent when there’s ANY doubt to the motivation, thinking or intent of someone else.

      2. Anna*

        That’s you. These weirdos have had enough cushioning. Time to stop making excuses for this behavior.

      4. Ellis Bell*

        Bunny, I get what you’re saying, I really do; I don’t advocate pitchforks either. However the OP has already responded to a comment on her facial expression with a smiley face. There is “direct, but soft” and then there’s “a message wrapped in four layers of fluff and then hidden inside a pillow”. I completely empathize with OPs instinct to save face, but if people want to give her permission to not soften, I’m all for it. There’s been no mention of discomfort, or of stopping the comments yet.

  43. FG*

    I don’t think I’d just ignore, because dude needs to learn. My response (very typical of my vibe / verbal patterns) would be a simple “Seriously?” Or even “Srsly?” You can throw in the occasional “Really?”

  44. AnonymousFormerTeacher*

    I’m a woman with a facial difference, and my favorite response when a man tells me to smile or that I look too serious is “that’s just the way the scar tissue curves.”

    And if they persist, ” Dr. (world class surgeon) rebuilt my face based off my father and sister’s faces and, with my permission, filmed multiple of my surgeries to use for teaching purposes across the globe. You can take it up with him.”

    A little scorched earth, but it gets the point across.

  45. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

    These are the sorts of comments that I let sit for an awkward amount of time, and then possibly respond “I’m not sure what you’re referring to.”

    The follow up response to whatever the lame explanation is would then be “Oh, still don’t recall that, I guess I was paying attention to what was going on.”

  46. AnnaBegins*

    Don’t respond to the message. If you stop responding to the messages and he continues to send them, tell him directly to stop it and do not sugarcoat it.

    It’s up to all of us to normalize women being able to speak directly in the workplace. If we don’t individually start doing it, how will things ever change? The advice to softpedal this stuff is well intentioned but misguided.

    “It’s distracting when you send me messages commenting on my facial expressions during meetings. Please don’t do this again.”

    1. Despachito*

      I love this.

      I hope we are heading to a world when it is perceived as normal if women are just matter-of-fact without beating around the bush and sugarcoating things. I think it would benefit both women and men.

  47. Oh boy*

    I agree with the idea to ignore it, but if she wants to say something why in the world should she soften the message to not comment on her face? Be clear, direct and not rude but Im really sick of being advised to soften things to make rude people feel better. It’s exhausting!!

    1. TheBunny*

      It’s called living in society. It’s called hoping that someone will be kind to you next time you blunder your way into something and look a fool.

      He’s not murdering her. He’s making insensitive and sexist comments. I think a little grace the first time will hopefully get LW some of the same when they need it.

      At least that’s how I go through my life. Hopefully the grace I give others will come back to me when I’m tne idiot in the room.

    2. Despachito*

      Perhaps it could help to imagine how his boss would react if he did it to her/him? (Cue: they would definitely consider it inappropriate and would want to nip it in the bud in no uncertain terms. What words would they use to convey that to him? )

      Because, apart from sexist, it is also inappropriate due to the fact they are not that close for him to be able to safely afford this. (As some commenters said, in a proper context – between close work friends who use to banter – a comment on someone’s facial expression could be OK. I can imagine a close coworker I am on good terms with telling me “the look on your face when Fergus proposed we should make teapots out of tar and feathers was priceless”, but it is absolutely necessary to read the room, which OP’s coworker is clearly failing to do.)

  48. merida*

    Start commenting on his face constantly during meetings and see how he likes it. Only half-joking… ;) I did something similar to a male coworker who was constantly commenting on my hair and surprisingly it was successful. Never commented on my hair again once I merely suggested we talk about his hair instead. I had already politely asked him to stop a handful of times before and he didn’t listen.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      I was surprised to hear that this worked for you, but then it’s kind of hysterical that this worked for you as well? Like, he was assuming you’d want to keep the spotlight on yourself and your response would be to preen and fluff your hair a bit? I wonder if these guys ever get an expected response.

      1. merida*

        I know, right! I wasn’t expecting it to work either. In that case he’d comment almost daily on my hair (mainly on whether it was up or down – like “your hair looks nice down” or “I liked it the other way better” – ugh). Over the course of many interactions I told him that wasn’t a compliment and it made me uncomfortable, can we please talk about anything else but my hair, why is my hair such a fascination, etc, but he always claimed he was just being nice and would continue. One time I nonchallently retorted “ok, I’ll just start talking about your hair everyday,” and he gasped and said “be that way then” and he never talked about hair again. If I’d known that would work I would have tried it so much earlier!! Some people, though… I don’t know why we have to deal with this.

  49. Office Plant Queen*

    I haven’t actually had comments about smiling more or whatever, but I’ve definitely had random men try to make conversation with me when I’m obviously busy – like at work (in a restaurant kitchen) or walking somewhere. It seems fairly innocuous on the surface, but it’s presumptive in a way that’s hard not to read as a little bit sexist. I appreciate that some people are just a bit lonely and looking for human connection, but approaching a complete stranger and assuming she has the time or desire to stop and chat?

  50. JC*

    The fact that he’s doing it to the women and not to the men would make me so tempted to just go on mic next time it happens and say in front of everyone, “excuse me, Strategist, please don’t send me DMs commenting on my appearance.”

    1. Think this is the one*

      That strikes me as so simple and direct, professional, calm, and clean as a response. It makes it clear that the behavior is a problem and lets others in the meeting know that it’s happening–some of whom also seem to be experiencing it!–but it’s such a quick comment to make that it doesn’t risk derailing the meeting. Maybe? Maybe there are reasons it wouldn’t work so well?

      1. TeaCoziesRUs*

        Ehh, if I were laying this meeting, I’d be more irked at OP for doing that and derailling my train of thought / presentation than I would the jerk for being a jerk. YMMV.

        1. New Jack Karyn*

          Yeah, going on mic is not the way to go, here.

          Replying to everyone ‘accidentally’ in the chat might be!

  51. Frustration Nation*

    “Oh, this is just how my face looks after sending an email to HR about being harassed during Zoom meetings. Hope that helps!”

  52. Raida*

    To me, it’s either
    A) little petty comments because he *has an opinion* and feels that women should listen.
    B) he’s being friendly. And he’s not doing it with men because *cute* isn’t how men are conditioned to interact with each other. And he… doesn’t have game to just directly compliment and flirt.

    Unless he’s being negative or making suggestions on how you can change, I’d notch this up to “trying to be friendly” and either not interact with it if you don’t want to be friendly or interact with it if you do.

    But hey, this is from my experience. I’ve had plenty of instances where a man always seems to have a comment, and they were for the most part guys who aren’t super great socially and who definitely were interested but weren’t just going for *flirting*. I just feel kinda bad for them, they are being nice and are hopeful and I’m just not interested but because it’s low key and vague it’d be real bloody brutal to kick ’em in the guts with “Don’t talk about my face.” and “Your comments are unwelcome.” and “I’m not interested in you.” and plenty of times they don’t *know* they’re doing it they just interact with women that way, being anxious, and as teens were conditioned to not talk to girls and girls are scary and girls will say “ew” to your face.

    1. Jessica*

      Raida, I realize sexism ruins civilization for all the participants, men too, and that everybody is kinda behaving the way they were socially taught, but if we just leave it there, how does anything ever get better? Feedback means people think you’re capable of change. If you were being lowkey offensive and unprofessional and annoying to your coworkers, would you rather just have them all secretly hate you, or would you rather get a chance to understand the problem and change your conduct?

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah, I also don’t think it’s brutal to let people know they’re doing something socially unacceptable. We all have to learn professional norms and it’s not kicking down from a sexy goddess perch to the poor lonely men hovering, it’s just information. Raida, I respect your compassion, but for the sake of your own energy I would also push back on the idea that flirting or exercising “game” has any place at work. Women get to put 100 per cent of their energy into themselves at work, and whereas men will only need to do this kind of emotional labour of “save their face and let them down easily” occasionally, it’s not the same for women. It adds up over time to an unreasonable level of emotional labour.

    2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Just… please stop imagining these poor, lonely, sad men who are just trying oh, so hard… FFS, they have not spent 2 seconds together worrying about how you feel. Kick them right back.

      Socially awkward men don’t get a pass on being sexists.

    3. zuzu*

      Somehow, these socially awkward dudes never seem to be so socially awkward that they comment on men’s faces and bodies.

      Why is that?

    4. Oregonbird*

      It’s being done during a live meeting. A time during which flirting, drinking, cannonballing into the pool and trimming toenails is thoroughly discouraged.

    5. allathian*

      It’s a work interaction. This isn’t the 1950s no matter how much some mad men would want it to be. Flirting is never appropriate in a work setting like a meeting. Flirting may be appropriate in a more social setting at work, but only if both parties are active participants in it. And even then, it’s easy to see it can become a form of harassment if there’s a hierarchical difference between the participants and the one being flirted at can’t easily opt out without risking professional consequences. (The preposition’s intentional here.) Mutual flirting during breaks between genuinely consenting peers may be okay, but nothing more. And even consensual flirting can become a problem if one person wants to stop and the other doesn’t. So in spite of having flirted at work before, I’m hesitant to recommend it.

    6. metadata minion*

      The fact that you equate “being friendly” with “trying to hit on someone” is really problematic.

  53. Maleficent*

    It is 2024. When will people learn that is it almost NEVER appropriate to comment on a person’s body or appearance in the workplace??? There are VERY few exceptions to that rule, and commenting on facial expressions is not one of them.

    1. allathian*

      Yeah, this. I tend to follow the 5-second rule and mention things that can be fixed in 5 seconds or less. Someone has gunk stuck in their teeth? Sure. Crumbs on their lap or chest from eating a sandwich for lunch? Likewise. If it’s something less easily fixable, like a coffee stain, I assume they already know.

  54. nnn*

    I would be tempted to disable all cameras in meetings that involve this dude, saying “Some people have mentioned to me privately that they find facial expressions distracting, so we’re going to keep cameras off so everyone can stay focused.”

    (Not saying this is advisable, but I would be tempted)

  55. Indolent Libertine*

    “Fergus, please stop with the running commentary on my facial expression. While I’m sure it’s not your intent, it’s annoying and intrusive.” And then never, ever acknowledge another such message.

  56. Cardboard Marmalade*

    Fergus: “You look vexed!”

    LW: “Sorry, I was thinking about what made you choose that tie…”

    (Not actually recommended. But it’s nice to dream.)

  57. Nat20*

    The petty, not-recommended but certainly more satisfying solutions: next time he does it, make sure your expression is clearly weirded out and unimpressed when the message comes through (since you know he’ll be looking), then respond something curt like “please stop scrutinizing my expression during meetings, that’s weird” while that face is still on so he knows it’s for him. Or, keep your camera off next time and say to EVERYONE that it’s because you’ve recieved feedback that your expressions are distracting. It’s not the *right* approach, but I cant deny I’d just want to call him out; make him feel like HE’S the weird one.

  58. Rain*

    LW – there’s a lot of advice that you’ve been given from ignoring it to trying to verbally set his hair on fire. I would just note that the internet is all gas, no brake.

    You are the only one who knows what the right choice for you, your situation, and your career are.

    You are not failing women everywhere. if you choose to take a more nuanced approach, and you are not saving women everywhere if you tell him to jump up his own butt.

    No one else in these comments has to live with the consequences of what you do except you. so please don’t let anyone make you feel like you’re obligated to do anything that doesn’t feel like the right choice.

  59. Thepuppiesareok*

    I had a guy like this at my first real job after college. I had no idea what his position was or where he got the nerve to do something like this. Being young and ignorant of office norms I blocked him. He emailed me a couple times after to see if I was having tech problems because I wasn’t responding to him. I set up a rule to send his emails directly to trash having never read a single one.

    Then we got an email about our new area VP. Yep. Face guy went from my district manager to my VP. I don’t know if he ever tried contacting me again. In my blissful ignorance of office norms I kept him blocked and sent to trash. I assume he moved on to harassing higher level employees because no one local ever said a word to me. Sadly he’d become a different area’s president when I left 9 years later. I miss the days when I was too young to know office norms and naive enough to think it didn’t matter.

    1. Despachito*

      but did it matter really? did you face any consequences?

      it seems that this guy was being inappropriate despite being a big wig, and his mails were not work ones, so perhaps the reaction of your younger naive self was better than it would be if skewed by the knowledge of professional environment (when you would not dare to block him and had to fend off his inappropriatenesses)?

    2. Ellis Bell*

      “He emailed me a couple times after to see if I was having tech problems because I wasn’t responding to him.” This was the very, very funny highlight to the story. How sad an ending though! FWIW, you are not the person in the story who doesn’t understand office norms.

  60. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    Depending on the day, mood, whether that IIS box had blown its capacitors again or not I deal with comments on my face differently.

    Option 1: Ignore the comment. I don’t want to spend any emotional labour on some bloke today thank you.

    Option 2: ‘Okaaay’. Then nothing. Surprisingly high effectiveness when followed up with option 1.

    Option 3: ‘So?’ Getting annoyed now. Clear combustibles from the area.

    Option 4: The Glare. The one I learnt from my mother. The cold eyes and Kubrick gaze. You’ve got seconds to reach minimum safe distance.

  61. Lola*

    I’ve had a coworker comment on my face like that during a meeting, while she was presenting – something like: “So we should implement this process to review the manufacturing of teapots where data specialists point out the areas with most mistakes – wow, Lola, you look mad at what I’m saying! You don’t like my proposal?”
    To which I answered that I was reading the document she had shared in her screen, and that was my focused face.
    I also soon turned off my camera, and developped a habit of having my camera on only for the very beginning (greetings) and end (goodbyes) of each call/meeting. That approach worked well while I was at that organization, as it greatly reduces the amount of stress of thinking how your face looks. It may not fit with every kind of work, and I was very much at BEC stage with that person!

  62. Ellis Bell*

    OP, if the scripts to politely call it out, or request a cease and desist are still making you wince, or you feel unable, a very low key option I’ve found useful is just staying in character as a “work connection only”. Just because he sent you a message that’s overly friendly and personal in tone doesn’t mean you have to respond in the same tone. You can ask what the message has to do with the meeting, you can suggest you need to focus on the meeting, you can suggest they just don’t know you very well. Extra points if it doesn’t really answer his question or makes you seem slightly baffled and confused about what he’s talking about. So for the vexed message you can say something like “Sorry, I’m totally lost. I don’t know which topic of the meeting you think is vexing me? Can we discuss it later? You don’t know my expressions particularly well and I want to focus on the meeting.” or “Something about spreadsheets is funny? I don’t think you read my expressions well, but would like to hear your thoughts on spreadsheets in our next spreadsheet meeting.” He’s pretending to discuss the meeting in a way, so constantly referring back to the meeting without any jokiness kind of takes him at his word.

  63. Kristin*

    I’ve brought up the issue of distracting messages – about whatever – during Teams calls to managers. Whether they are about faces or not (and at my workplace, commenting on someone’s face can be considered a violation of our code of conduct policy – people have been docked pay for it!), off-topic chats during a meeting are distracting and rude.
    In one example, an indigenous author related a personal anecdote. People started chiming in on how they sympathized, and it distracted me from what he subsequently said. I told the coordinator that these well-meant displays of understanding might not have been tolerated had this speaker been telling his story in person, and moreover people in Lakota culture stop what they are doing, put down their phones, and give their attention to the elder talking. The coordinator agreed and said she would set clearer guidelines for chat during meetings – all meetings.
    Perhaps that is one way your org can help you shut this down. How can they pay attention to the meeting when they’re obsessing about your face (or anything else)? Sheesh.
    (And as for the “smile” command, I constantly smile due to having been an actress, and I still got yelled at to “Smile!” by some jerk, so I frowned! Another man burst into laughter and applauded me, while the offender slunk off, so that was a small triumph.)

  64. KatieP*

    I would just tell him, “It’s really weird that you’re so focused on what my face is doing, rather than the meeting.”

  65. Taskmistress*

    If he’s that concerned about your facial expressions, I’d start looking visibly disgusted when those messages come through.

  66. MK*

    A fun twist would be to ask your male coworker to collude with you. Every time Obnoxious Dude sends a message to you or your female coworker about your face, let male coworker know and he will send a message to Obnoxious Dude about *his* face.

    YMMV based on personalities involved but your male coworker may be delighted to give OD a taste of his own medicine.

  67. T'Cael Zaanidor Kilyle*

    I am SO tempted to say that OP should just start nitpicking the co-worker’s facial expressions in exactly the same way, but I guess that would be unproductive?

  68. Fluffy Orange Menace*

    I think it’s perfectly fine to msg back and say, “Dude, why are you watching MY face instead of the material? That’s weird.” Because.. it IS weird! Probably sexist since he’s apparently checking out all the female faces and expressing his opinion, but definitely also just weird and kinda creepy. Like … why are you Zoom stalking all the women you encounter in meetings?? With the right “you’re so weird” tone, you might get through to him how cringey it is!

  69. WFH Lurker*

    I am a female in IT, the groups I’m in usually run about 9 males to every one female. Years ago there was a male coworker who was particularly creepy who would tell me to smile, about 1-2 times per month. I tried every response I could think of, from “Tell me something funny” to saying in a monotone “Ouch, no, it hurts.” He wouldn’t let up. Three years of that nonsense and I’d had more than enough. I responded with, “You know, you have a weird obsession with my face. The next time you choose to remark on it, we’re going to be having a discussion with HR.” He never told me to smile again.

  70. CGinChi*

    Why should softening OP’s tone or response even be an option? It’s not like the contractor is trying to be helpful in some way and means well… he is just being an annoyance at best and sexist at worst.

  71. Anonymous For Now*

    I would check with every women in meeting the OP is in with this guy and see how many of them get those asinine DMs from him. It’s probably all or most of them.

    Start by advising him that he should stop commenting on her face and start paying attention to the meeting. He may not get the hint and respond with something “clever”, such as that he can do both.

    At that point it might be helpful to tell the jerk that she wonders what HIS face will look like after all of the women he has been doing this to report him to HR.

  72. RamonaThePest*

    I always chose a seat with my back to the speaker in faculty meetings because I do not have a poker face. One day I had to sit facing forward and my team member hissed, “Smith! Fix your face!” when I more than rolled my eyes at the staff member whose “affirmation” was another humble brag for the weekly staff meeting.

  74. M*

    I wouldn’t be as nice as suggested. I’ve straight up said to a client who commented on me not smiling “I’m focusing, do you want me here for my technical expertise or for my face to look nice?” Never heard a word after that. Received positive client feedback post project.

    It depends on what you’re comfortable with but I see no problem in bluntly calling out this behavior. How your face looks has very little to do with work performance, even in client facing roles. Obviously I’m excluding extreme grimacing or sticking your tongue out.

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