open thread – August 23, 2024

by Alison Green on August 23, 2024

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Just a Girl*

    Do any of you have any recommendations about things to do at work (corporate, cubicle farmer) during downtime? I am almost at 20 years in my career and I am just so tired of the corporate bandwagon. There isn’t anything terribly wrong with the job I have now except for the commute and the times during the month where there is nothing to do. I’m a data analyst of sorts* and everything I do is on a monthly cycle. But at the third week of the month my work begins slowing down to almost nothing for the 4th week and then it picks back up, etc. Unless we have an ad hoc project that is how it goes.

    Any suggestions of things I can do while at work and continue to look busy? Our office space is so open. Our monitors are the huge, wide kind with no privacy screens and we sit back to back. So basically whatever I’m doing to “look” busy, everyone will see it so it has be work related somehow. Currently I’ve taken to manually retyping reports in excel whilst listening to a podcast so I appear to be concentrated on whatever important “report” I’m working on but I feel so disingenuous doing this. I keep trying to take Udemy courses for training on excel, salesforce and tableau but there is only so much of that you can do in a day. I’ve talked with my manager before about this and she keeps saying there is more coming down the line, but she is always so busy it’s difficult to get time with her to learn another item to take over from her desk. That’s the idea anyway, that she teaches me the things she does and I take them over, thus freeing her up more for the higher level analysis and ad hoc requests coming in from upper management. Also in the last talk we had about it, we listed out everything I have taken over from her so far and it is quite a lot and I would probably be overwhelmed if it all needed to be done at the same time. But it’s much more spread out than that. There are things that repeat every month and two larger projects that occur each spring that I oversee (and things are fairly busy), and some overall administration of a couple other items (like training our new employees on how we use salesforce).

    I’ve always had this problem at work where once I’ve learned a task, I’ve efficiently and accurately optimized it (whether that be an automated process or just how we humans get it done), written up step by step Joe Schmoe from the street could do it instructions and then….get told to slow down. Or get piled on with more work b/c your new “normal” is 150% and if you don’t constantly hit 150% then you get penalized. I know others out there must understand what I mean. So part of me wonders if what I have now from this job would be more than enough for someone who doesn’t work like I do? I don’t want to burnout at this job, piling on more more more, but the one thing the past 20 years have taught me is that I HATE downtime at work. I need to be occupied and busy all day long otherwise I end up thinking about everything else I’d rather be doing, could be doing, than be here and grateful as I try to be for the job, the pay, the benefits, the flexibility! I just begin to resent it.

    *being that, my company calls me a data analyst but I have no formal training or certifications, everything I’ve learned is self-taught, Udemy, or from my manager and I probably couldn’t get away with applying for an analyst job at another company so I feel pretty trapped here b/c of the great pay & benefits and not wanting to lose them.

    1. Rebelina (with a cause)*

      Coursera lets you audit courses – that’s, if your company doesn’t give you a stipend to do workshops/training. You can take courses that are tangentially related to your job, like how to deal with difficult people (don’t we all?), or leadership, or … heck… photography, I dunno!

      The only drawback for auditing courses is that you don’t get a certificate. But you’ll have the knowledge in your head, so you can speak to it. The button for auditing a course is buried deep, but it’s there!

      1. Lbd*

        It might be worth it to pay for the courses just to get that certificate, which in turn might give you a boost if you ever had an opportunity drop into your lap for a better job.

      2. doughless coursera user*

        depending on the course merely auditing might also leave some content paywalled, such as quizzes or projects — which may or may not affect your own learning (ymmv of course)

        but i understand most(?) courses that let you audit also allow for 100% completion sans certificate

        and of course, some are 100% free to begin with

    2. Paint N Drip*

      The Kindle webpage is VERY neutral, could look like a report. I believe the Libby webpage is the same, although I don’t know for sure. There are also some serious archives of PDF books on the internet in general, including some classics and plenty of educational material (textbook adjacent). I personally think anything PG is reasonable to read, although that might still feel disingenuous to you – they’re paying you to do the work they have, so if you’re keeping your brain busy while waiting for that work I don’t personally see that as an issue.
      I occasionally like to take typing tests and I also do the Buzzfeed pyramid game most days, but these both take up perhaps 10 minutes :)

      1. Just a Girl*

        I have found a site that lets you test your typing by retyping novels. I jump on that sometimes. I supposed my brain is just always at war with itself – they’re paying me to be here so it’s fine vs I could be doing X Y Z at home right now and irritated. But I was that way even at school ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        2. El*

          I was also going to suggest something similar – the Zooniverse platform, where you can participate in real scientific research online. Things like ‘help transcribe these 18th century ship manifests’ or ‘confirm this is actually a zebra our wildlife cam auto-caught’ or things like that – it’s a fun and actually helpful way to while away some time, and the interface looks fairly official.

    3. Funko Pops Day*

      Could you name the specific issue to your manager (that the last week of the month is usually a lull where you have extra time) and ask specifically about a long-term, ‘nice to have’ project that you could turn to in those downtimes? E.g., maybe there are old datasets where it would be good to do a review and make sure there’s a data dictionary (or other data management tasks), or some kind of research to support a future decision, or….?

    4. Busy Middle Manager*

      If you’re in the data field, the work and potential can be neverending? Do you know everything in SQL, python, PowerBi or Tableau?
      In my downtime I’ve been learning how to automate tasks in SQL. Also more Dax in PowerBI.c

      It then leads down rabbit holes. For example, some of the answers on stackoverflow are technically misleading. Some say “you don’t need to do it that way” and don’t really answer the question. So I end up doing a lot of detective work to find the real answer.
      Then there is internal permission and version issues to work around. You may just not have access to a screen so need to look for a workaround.

      Also in data you usually spend downtime looking for errors and cleaning them up. Are you 100% sure everything is perfectly accurate? I’ve always found errors/duplicates/missing information or typos at every job

      If you’ve truly exhausted all options it looks like it’s time to job hop? TBH I’m slightly confused that you’re simultaneously bored but also don’t want to take more from your boss? You also mention “so she can focus on higher level…” Why can’t you start working on the higher level stuff? Why is the boss the only one that can?

      Lastly, I’d ignore the line of thought in your second to last paragraph. The whole “if you perform at 150% thing it’s the new normal thing.” It’s become an internet trope to not do much work. Yeah, if you do 150% people might think you’re only at 100% or 120% but is that really the problem? All you need to worry about is having a good reputation, salary, and whether you’re fulfilled and keeping skills up to date. Whether someone knows you’re working really super hard or just a regular level of hard? That’s not the thing to get mentally stuck on even though the internet makes it sound super important. Also FWIW working in data for 20 years as well. A lot of people confuse “I automated a report someone used to do cumbersomely by hand so I’m doing two jobs.” No you’re not, you’re doing one data job. That’s just my take on why I find that line of logic unhelpful

      1. Seven If You Count Bad John*

        “Why can’t you start working on the higher level stuff? Why is the boss the only one that can?”

        She can’t do the higher level work yet because the boss is too busy doing the work to train her. This is a boss problem.

        1. Busy Middle Manager*

          “Data” jobs are famous for vague directives and literally doing what should be your boss’ jobs, half of the point of us is to figure out how it all works. You almost never need training, more like vague directives like “I think the way we do taxes might be off” or “we might be migrating to a new system, any issues you foresee?” type stuff.

          OP can definitely push back if manager keeps stalling in letting them work on “higher level” Stuff. Also IME the “higher level” stuff is never actually THAT “high level” it’s usually a varation of something you already thought of (if you’re mid/senior like OP anyways)

      2. Sparkle llama*

        Seconding doing quality control on data – one of the data people I work with has a remarkable ability to withstand the monotony of that work and we appreciate the improved data quality greatly!

    5. A Simple Narwhal*

      Could you work from home at all? If you could be home during your down week you wouldn’t have to perform being busy.

      A couple other suggestions:

      -Download an ebook as a pdf (Libby connects right to your local library and lets you search by download format) and read it on your screen. It will look like you’re reading a document.
      -If you have a laptop, book a conference room or huddle room. If you’re in a full glass office (like mine) sit so that your monitor isn’t visible when people walk by. People will assume you’re on a call and you can do whatever you want.

      Also maybe consider if a job that is miserable 1.5-2 weeks out of every 4 is really worth it? This reminds me of the post a couple weeks ago where someone said they liked their job but had nothing to do for long stretches of it, and it turns out they didn’t really like their job.

      1. Just a Girl*

        The whole “like your job” thing is a really hard concept for me. I think that’s part of the imposter syndrome. I don’t give a rat’s patootie about data or numbers or even the product of the company. I am here for the money that society demands I have to have in order to live at the level I deem comfortable.

        I like to read. I like to crochet. People aren’t really paying you for that.

        1. A Simple Narwhal*

          I like crocheting too! Any chance your office is/could be a “lets people keep their hands busy to help them pay attention” place? If your boss is cool with it you could have training(/something training-looking) playing on your screen while you crochet? I think it’s totally plausible that could look busy, especially if you pause every once and again to “take notes”. Actually if you work off a pattern, crossing off your completed rows would totally look busy as part of it!

          Whether or not you actually absorb the training is up to you, you could totally have it muted but keep a podcast playing instead.

        2. disconnect*

          I like building too. I have a job where I get to build a quality department from its current state. I have some really good people working for me who are serious about doing things right, and I have a boss who really supports me. I worked hard to get this job and I’m working hard to build up a team that only exists at the whim of a giant conglomerate, but it’s something real and I’m enjoying it.

    6. Everlast*

      Would typing a transcript of audio you are listening to interest you? Would typing it out in word look work-y enough?
      You can google ‘volunteer transcription’ to find something that interests you – places like the Smithsonian and Library of Congress need this.

      1. Margaret Cavendish*

        I was going to suggest this as well. It’s a great way to kill half an hour (or more!) at work during slower periods.

    7. Harlowe*

      You mention great pay and benefits. Why not see if the company will support you in pursing legit certifications, a boot camp, or a degree? If they treat you like an analyst, become an analyst. Emphasize your love for the role and your desire to grow/improve.

    8. Parenthesis Guy*

      It sounds like you want to pass on some of your work that you’ve already optimized to someone else while taking on new work that you haven’t optimized. Problem is, you’re at the bottom of the totem pole and there is no one to take on that work. So, getting rid of old work will be difficult unless you can find someone else willing to learn.

      To get work, you can try and talk with your grand-boss and see if there’s someone else you can help out. Aside from that, you can spend some time playing with some data that your team owns that you’re not familiar with.

        1. Meh*

          You sound like my internal voice :-) Don’t downplay yourself.

          If you have a solid track record, and good working relationships, they may take you regardless while you work on those certifications.

          Automation and streamlining are NOT small skills ! They are valuable and marketable. Focus on marketing the tasks you’ve improved and the efficiencies youve gained. (decreased processing time by 70% and improved accuracy) are HUGE !!!

    9. periwinkle*

      Does your company offer any tuition benefit or professional development funds? Mine has a deal with eCornell so their courses are covered by our benefit. I’m also a self-taught data analyst and have completed a few of the data analytics-oriented certificates. The courses are short (2 or 3 weeks each) and full of immediately applicable stuff.

      You can earn Tableau certificates as well – do training through Coursera or Udemy if you’d like, then take the Tableau Data Analyst exam ($250).

      However, you don’t really need certifications if you have experience. You certainly CAN get away with applying to other companies for data analyst roles! If you don’t feel confident about applying elsewhere, are there other teams in your current company that are data-heavy?

      1. Just a Girl*

        I think it’s a combo of mostly imposter syndrome and slightly that I know other teams wouldn’t take me b/c I don’t have those certifications they want.

        Hiring at my company is crazy. They are so incredibly slow to hire. They will have a perfect internal candidate who has relevant working experience/knowledge and who only lacks some random cert or degree (for example, say they don’t have an MBA) and b/c of it, they will go with some outside hire who has none of the internal knowledge/experience but has that MBA and then complain and be frustrated by how long it takes to get that person up to speed and handling the work they want. And tell the internal person they didn’t get the job b/c of the lack of cert or degree and also you’re so good at what you do we can’t lose you. SMH.

    10. 1 Non Blonde*

      I’ve had this problem my entire career as well (almost 20 years). I once had a friend try to teach me shortcuts in one of our programs and I told her that I needed to know how to make this step longer, because I already work so efficiently.

      In the past, I’ve looked up books on Project Guttenberg, or read every news article I could find. (social media was blocked on our computers for the first 10 years of my career). Nowadays, I just go down social media rabbit holes, which is a bad look, and bad for my neck ha!

      I have various sites that I download pdf books from and read those every now and again, but most of the time, I just wait longingly for the day to end. It’s really annoying to have so much downtime when everyone else is absorbed in their work because they are SO BUSY, so, I’ve often wondered what was “wrong” with me.

      1. My Useless Two Cents*

        In the last few years I’ve taken to trying to do small “mental breaks” between tasks to stretch normal work out so that my output is what I would consider average. Mental breaks include this site, reading the news, looking up recipes to email myself, ordering groceries to pick up later, etc. I usually only spend 5-15 min max so it just looks like I’m taking my morning break. I just take a few extra each morning. (But I also don’t have a bunch of nosy coworkers monitoring my breaks or monitors, that could change things. Also, managers have been just “butts-in-seat” and overall output and couldn’t really care less since job was getting done.)

        Because, yeah in the past, working at normal speed and just taking on more work, I was doing twice as much as co-workers doing the same job AND working on special projects (like digitizing 30 years of old records). Took me ages to realize that no, all that extra output doesn’t translate to promotion or higher pay, it just leads to boredom and more work.

          1. Just a Girl*

            Yes, this has always been my experience in practice. I never got any other perks for all the hard work – just more of the same work. I think I am actually in a position now to have other benefits and it’s just hard getting my mindset changed. I do take a lot more breaks when I WFH than when I’m in office.

      2. CharmCity*

        This is 100% me! In 25+ years of professional office work I’ve never had a job that kept me busy 40 hours a week – even at director & senior levels. I’m busy maybe 25% of the time in my role now and it’s so demoralizing & crazy making but the pay & benefits are so great I’ll never leave.

    11. Katydid*

      Are you using all your vacation time? I used to be terrible about taking PTO because I wasn’t going on any big trips, so I started just taking a day here or there when things are slow just to get things done at my house or have lunch with a friend or whatever enjoyable thing you want to spend the afternoon doing. You are utilizing those good benefits and not trying to find things to keep busy.

      1. Just a Girl*

        We have a new PTO policy for next year that I think was made to encourage everyone to be taking their PTO more regularly. So I will be working on taking it more often then.

        1. Ialwaysforgetmyname*

          Taking a full or half Friday (or Monday?) off during that slow week would alleviate your work issue and might also be a great self-care issue. I just finished taking 4 hours off every Friday afternoon for the last month because it was a slow time for me, I needed it mentally, and it let me play outside more.

      2. Jaydee*

        That’s a great idea. Unfortunately I don’t know in advance when I’m going to have downtime so I usually end up scheduling doctors appointments and vacation days and then end up being busy when they’re scheduled. But for someone in Just a Girl’s situation who has a predictable week each month when it’s not as busy, schedule as much of your out of work stuff as you can during that week. Annual physical, dental cleaning, a day off to do some gardening or binge the new season of a TV show that just came out. If you’re trying to stretch 30 hours of work out to fit a 40 hour week, that’s miserable. But if you’re trying to stretch 30 hours of work to fill 32 hours, that’s just a nice, chill week.

      3. BlueWolf*

        I was going to ask the same thing. I feel similar to OP and I could definitely stand to take more PTO. I at least WFH so I don’t have to perform busyness when things are slow, but that also means I don’t take as much PTO either because I can still get some things done around the house. I can’t really afford to take a vacation right now. I do try to take random days off. For example, I’ll schedule a doctor’s appointment for a morning (usually a Friday or Monday), but take the whole day off. Or I took a 4-day weekend in the springtime because I knew I had a bunch of gardening/yard work I wanted to get done. I usually try to schedule around what I think will be slow times, although they’re not always predictable.

    12. Kez*

      I’ve found that it can feel like I need “permission” to do certain professional development things that I can actually pursue independently, mostly due to having a brain conditioned by previous retail/admin work to never start or improve anything unless specifically instructed to do so. I can relate to your nerves and think that some of what you need is a shift in mindset and the other half is some set of “goals” to work toward and feel satisfied as you do them.

      Mindset-wise, I think it’s important to stop thinking of yourself with this imposter-syndrome “I’m an analyst but not really so I can never look for a new job and I have to hide my downtime lest someone expose me as a fraud” narrative. It’s going to make you more anxious than you need to be, and it’s clearly not serving as a healthy motivator for your work or professional development. So take some time to think over what you are good at that your manager and colleagues have praised you for, consider that many jobs have busy and less-busy periods, and try to find a sweet spot of “I am capable of performing important work” and “My company values sustainability and doesn’t want me biting off more than I can chew” to build your confidence. Learning and practicing more skills in your field will naturally segue into wanting to try and improve your existing projects, so don’t feel bad about using that time on personal development even if you don’t have a straightforward “I am learning X so that I can do Y” narrative.

      Alright, into the nitty-gritty of what to do during those slow days. There are loads of resources out there and it can be pretty overwhelming to consider them all. It sounds like you’ve spent a lot of time with Excel, Salesforce, and Tableau so let’s set those aside or at the very least consider new angles to approach them.

      If you’re regularly working with data and visualizations but you never had formal training in statistics or data science, it could be worth catching up on the tools and basics of the field. I wanted to learn more about R as a tool so I downloaded it and followed along with the free online book R for Data Science. Whenever I ran into a statistical concept I hadn’t learned I looked it up and tried to use free resources to understand it better. It’s slow going when you don’t have a teacher, but there are a lot of people in the field that want to improve the general public’s understanding of statistics and offer free resources and help online. You don’t necessarily need to start with R or SQL, so consider a topic or two that feels compelling and work-related to you.

      This kind of self-study can be pretty taxing mentally, and I would say you should try out different routines to see what cadence makes it work best for you. Does committing to 3 daily sessions of 45 mins to 1 hour seem better than focusing for 3 hours straight, or vice versa? Do you need multiple topics to stay interested, or is diving deep into one area of study more your style? It’s important to not replace all free time with self-study, because you’re likely to get really burnt out that way. Just think of adding it to your day as a way to keep things interesting and have a clear answer if someone asks “What have you been up to between projects?”

      Since you seem motivated to build up your relevant work skills, that would be my biggest suggestion. With shorter stints of time, maybe look into industry listservs or academic journals that you can read and consider. Your local library might let you download PDFs from academic journals or texts, so consider adding relevant reading to your usual routine.

      Lastly, there are a lot of nonprofits and research projects that need help with data entry or cleaning, so when you’re feeling like your brain is already too full of New Concept Learning, why not consider helping out the National Archives as a volunteer transcriptionist or contributing to a project on Zooniverse? Or you can do something internal with your company that’s just a quality-of-life improvement for yourself that doesn’t need to be maintained all the time if something more urgent comes up. Do you have a list of your most frequently asked questions? A smaller directory that just displays your commonly used contacts? A “to-do-list” template that feels organized and pleasant to look at?

      I think that you deserve to give yourself a break from the guilt and see if reframing this time as a gift rather than a burden helps you open up your horizons. Good luck, and remember to share what you get up to here so that I can learn from your experience too!

      1. kalli*

        Beware of doing nonprofit or research work at work on work computers without permission – it can be grounds for disciplinary action for stealing or misdirecting work resources.

        Documenting what you do and how you do it, however, is not. And if there are always new tasks to optimise, then there’s always documenting to finish and update. If it ever comes time to create a job dictionary, PD, ask for a raise or otherwise convey the work content, the docs come in handy even if they’re never used to train anyone else on those tasks!

      2. Just a Girl*

        Thank you! There is a lot of useful advice here. I agree, I think this imposter syndrome mindset is something I’ve had since I got out of my entry level role. It’s difficult not to feel so less than when I’m surrounded by others who have all the certifications/degrees, etc. and see what they’re working on vs what I do day to day.

    13. Pam Adams*

      Maybe writing instructions/training guides for your tasks in preparation for the day when you can hand it off?

    14. Chris too*

      I’d remind my boss I was short of work and would love some sort of project – then I’d intersperse taking courses that would hopefully wind up giving you some sort of actual certification with finding some actual physical task to do for a few minutes, assuming you’re able bodied.

      I need more moving around than most people, and I have a job that needs me to do that, but I think probably most of us would benefit from interspersing the concentration of doing a course with some sort of physical thing we don’t have to concentrate on. I dunno – taking the lunchroom compost bin out to dump into the organic waste bin outside? Emptying the dishwasher? Walking to another floor to use their washroom? Heck, even walking up and down the stairs for three or four minutes.

      It would probably be beneficial for your concentration on the course and might jog your boss’s mind that you’re looking for something to do.

    15. A Person*

      If you want to keep doing analyst work and are interested in programming, I’d say pick up a language! Python is extremely popular and a great step towards being more marketable, and you can use colab online to do exercises – I found some resources by just searching “google colab python introduction”.

      If you’re already doing SQL (or any other language) and want to improve your skills, you could try Leetcode – also great practice if you want to someday apply for an analyst job at another company. Get to the point you can pass that SQL technical!

      1. Just a Girl*

        See, I don’t know any programming codes at all. What I have is a better understanding of excel than average and the adaptability/smarts to google and figure things out when I don’t. I have been considering taking some more Salesforce focused classes and trying for the certifications they offer. My company is only getting more and more entrenched with them.

        1. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Yes! Do that! (and when they don’t promote you anyway Because Reasons, you’ll have the backup paperwork to get hired somewhere else).

        2. Moo*

          If you need a break from this type of work or to mix it up, are there professional publications in your area or other professional sites (including this one) where you can get a sense of the broader issues and trends in your industry. Basically something you can read when you need a break from excel that still looks professional and appropriate for work

    16. Maotseduck*

      Do you have to look busy? If your manager knows you’ve finished your work and they say more is coming, could you do other things? I say this as someone who also is left grasping at work. I’ve taken to knitting socks while I wait for more things to happen. My boss and his boss are both ok with it, though I found that out after I started doing it.

      1. Just a Girl*

        I wish I could bring my crochet projects and do those! But for my work it’s more of a perception issue. Does my manager technically care? No. But it would cause perception problems with everyone around us. So I don’t have to look like a robot straight busy all day, I just have to look like I’m at least working on something. And then on the personal note, I just need my brain to be engaged in something so I don’t wallow.

    17. Mermaid of the Lunacy*

      WOW, I could have written this letter almost verbatim! Right now I am on like 17 projects but things move sooooo slowly around here and there are always sooooo many cooks in the kitchen that there isn’t much to do on any of them day-to-day. I’m always reviewing my applications for ways to improve them, but a lot of improvements would require help from other busy teams. I don’t want to drag other teams into less-important work just because I’m looking for things to do. In the past I would try to focus on future needs and create strategic plans and present to my leadership, but I don’t have any authority on strategic planning. I just have to go with the whim of whatever project is handed to me. There is never any budget for training.

      Does your company have employee groups? In the past I’ve served on steering committees just to connect with other employees and help plan events. Of course COVID killed a lot of that at my company.

      I guess I don’t have any great advice, just want you to know you are not alone!!

      1. Just a Girl*

        Thank you! It’s nice to know you aren’t alone. Sometimes I guess I just need commiseration and venting.

    18. AnonForThis2ndFamilySurprise*

      I don’t know that it addresses the monthly cyclical slowdown, but for general health and well-being, when I have intensive work I set a timer and every 25 minutes I take a 5-minute movement break. I might walk one lap around my neighborhood loop or put a song on my headset and walk in time to the music (if you can resist busting a dance move, unless no one would bat an eye at that; I WFH so if I want to channel my inner whomever I can). This is better for productivity than locking into one place and position for hours on end (there’s research to support this). So if you’re getting work done faster because you’re working super intensely, what about forcing those breaks so the same work takes a tiny bit longer but you’re better and healthier doing it? Would that help?

      Message boards where you contribute expertise and learn from the answers of others might be a good professional development filler in addition to the various suggestions for trainings others have shared.

      Reading research or trade publications or other appropriate source on whatever those higher-level tasks are would prepare you for when the boss finally hands them off.

      Do coworkers do something they hate that you’d love that you could offer to help with occasionally? Have to have good boundaries so this doesn’t eat you alive, of course.

    19. Beth*

      Do you actually need to be at your desk, looking like you’re working, for the same fixed hours every day/week?

      My solution to this would just be to work less on the slow weeks. Giving yourself permission to leave when you’re done with your work for the day–even if it means working less than 8 hours–means you don’t need to search for busy work or risk burnout by piling on extra tasks. The time you work during busy periods probably balances out the slower periods. Of course, this only works if 1) you’re exempt and not tracking hours too strictly, and 2) your company gives you the flexibility to manage your own schedule.

      Given that you feel your lack of formal training is limiting your career options, another option would be to use the time to pursue a certification. Even if you’re paying for the course yourself, I bet your manager would be open to you using your slow weeks for professional development.

    20. NurseThis*

      I had an enormous screen at work and was required to sit facing in so that I could be seen from behind. I bought a privacy screen and put it on my self. No one ever questioned it and I removed it when I retired. Not a leaker, just someone who hated people hanging around behind me.

    21. DJ Abbott*

      I work in a government office, and we are encouraged to keep reading the regulations and guidelines so they’re fresh in our minds. When we have downtime, that’s what we read. Is there something like that that applies to your job or field? If so, that’s a good thing for downtime and related to work.

    22. Part time lab tech*

      Citizen science? I had a go a few times at looking at stills from wildlife cams and confirming if there were any animals in view and what kind.

  2. Even HR gets Low Morale*

    I’m leaving my job because of money. Mostly. I’ve been underpaid for years, but I liked the work and my colleagues enough to stick around. I was offered (and accepted) a job that pays 25% more at a company that just went through tremendous expansion. It’s an amazing opportunity. A couple of days ago, my soon-to-be former boss and CEO of the company I work for now (let’s call her Sandy) old the new boss for the position (let’s call her Anne) that if the new hire for my position wanted an extra $3K, that she was fine with that. As it stands, the new hire is being brought in at a higher rate than I’m getting presently, and closer to the market than I’ve ever been.

    That means that Sandy was okay with bringing a new person at $8K more than I’m currently making but wasn’t willing to pay ME that extra money.

    Folks… I lost it. We were at a meeting and Sandy was on the phone and about to hang up. When she did, the rest of the people at the meeting saw me literally sob in anger (I cry when frustrated, a trait that’s hard to overcome – I’ve tried!).

    Here’s the kicker, I’d told Anne to bring the new person in at the extra $8K because it was closer to market, and she would have a happy employee. But honestly, I thought it would be an uphill battle for her to get that approval. Turns out it wasn’t and I’m really, really upset.
    I know my new job is better in all aspects and I know that Sandy was upset that I didn’t let her make a counteroffer (they never work, anyway). But that was a low blow, even for her who never supported my initiatives or gave me any feedback. Then she wonders why I’m leaving.

    Sorry, y’all. I just needed to vent today. I only have one week left, so I’ll just keep on keeping on and hope the place doesn’t implode.

    1. Harlowe*

      Know that you are not alone in your anger and frustration. My last job could have kept me for free: all I wanted was a title change one level up, to accurately reflect my work load and leadership. I spent 8 years there, and they were happy to pile on the responsibilities, but refused to simply call IT and have “Senior” added to the front of my role. Now I have the title I wanted, I make 60% more money, and I work fully remote with a team in another state (so I never have to worry about RTO). Onward and upward.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      That’s a real kick in the ass, and tough not to take it personally. It definitely isn’t about you (there’s a reason that the best growth has historically been through changing companies) but I would be raging also. Just one week to keep pushing, and soon you’ll be in a place where they recognize what you have to offer AND want to recognize it with title and pay! It’s tough to leave a job you do like but they’re doing their best to make it easy on you ;)

    3. It ain’t enough*

      We have too many workers and slow business, at my part time work, I can only work about 10 hours, that’s all they can give me. Grand boss just interviewed another person, and by the time you get to grand boss, that’s pretty much guaranteed you’ll get the job.
      Everyone on our team is NOT happy about this.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          Gaw, this so much. They show contempt for their workers in every way, then get all BUT WHY THOUGH? when said workers flip the bird and leave.

    5. Artemesia*

      I am forever grateful to my first boss after a merger (where all my department was let go, but I by some artful broken field running managed to get back in) who saw that my salary was out of line with similar people who had been recently hired or come in with the merger and so gave me big raises for 3 years to bring me in line. Raises were normally about 2% a year and there were caps on the pool for each department so getting those 15% raises was not easy — but he got it done. Later as a department chair, I was able to fix a similar problem for one of our most important people who for a variety of reasons was grossly underpaid.

      I am glad the OP here is leaving for more money and hope the new job is wonderful.

    6. Her name was Lola*

      I totally get the “cry when frustrated” issue. I’ve been that way my whole life and it’s not as easy as —well, just don’t cry. I’m glad you’ve got a better gig. Hang in there.

      1. Vincent Adultman’s assistant*

        “Just don’t cry”, lol yes, such great advice. It’s like, thanks, why didn’t I think of that before!?

    7. Cinn*

      My partner had this happen to him. They piled on responsibilities but never gave him a raise in the five or so years he was there. Then when he left to move to a better job, better location, they hired a new person at more than his requested (and denied) raises would’ve got to.

      We were both fuming and I still do when I remember about it. You have every right to feel irked by this.

    8. LCH*

      if Sandy consistently denied raise requests you made, how could she be surprised or upset at you leaving? a raise request is usually a pretty clear sign that this employee might start looking around! and if the employee isn’t at market value, might find something!

    9. Msd*

      My boss once said the our company was great as your first and third job. They hired right out of college and paid low. People would get experience and leave for better paying jobs. A lot came back at higher levels and pay that they would never have gotten if they had just stayed. Crazy.

    10. Lucy Librarian*

      I’m sorry! I had a new coworker hired at a higher salary than me with much less experience and I was providing the training. When I went to my boss’ boss to argue for a substantial raise, she offered me peanuts. I wasn’t prepared to quit, which might have been the only way, but I did draw it out as long as I could. The coworker lasted less than a year, my boss’s boss is gone, and I did get more of a bump finally.

    11. Antilles*

      I only have one week left, so I’ll just keep on keeping on and hope the place doesn’t implode.
      That’s a good plan, though I’ll add that I wouldn’t even waste time/energy on the last part. If the place implodes without you, well, that’s their own fault.
      Your only responsibility in the next week is to do a competent job transitioning out, leave in a professional manner, then you walk out that door without a backward glance.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Exactly. Imploding is no more than they deserve. I feel bad for the new hire walking into this snake pit, but you don’t owe these people a thing. Not a thing.

        Say that to yourself over and over.

    13. Agnes Grey*

      That is legitimately infurating! Congratulations on your impending departure, they do not deserve you.

    14. Frieda*

      My boss did this a couple years back to a much-valued employee of long standing (he left for a better job after she did not fight for him to get a totally reasonable raise) and when people asked her at our next unit meeting what the cost was of the search and the salary band for the prospective new hire and did it really make sense that we’d lost this guy if we were going to have to now pay market rate for someone new … she came around individually to tell people we’d “made [unnamed fictional others] uncomfortable” and stopped having unit meetings for a year. Good times.

      So just know it’s not you, it’s not only you, and it sucks all around.

    15. Ialwaysforgetmyname*

      Ugh, that really sucks. You aren’t the first to experience that and unfortunately you won’t be the last.

      Years ago I was in a job where far too much was expected of my role running a community college residence hall – 8 hour shift during the day, then dealing with “college students in a dorm” crap for hours every night, 7 nights a week) because I lived in the building. I kept saying it needed to be 2 people and kept getting ignored. When I quit after 18 months, they hired 2 people. That felt sh**ty.

    16. Fur Fir Fer*

      It really makes you wonder, doesn’t it? It’s so simple to keep good employees and managers just don’t do it. My department is about to implode bc people are leaving in large numbers and upper management still has no clue.

    17. Jen*

      It’s possible they only realized you were right that this role’s market pay should be 8K higher (at least) when they saw you leaving for 25% more.

      It’s frustrating that they didn’t believe you earlier and made you go to all that effort.

  3. Amber Rose*

    Small question born of overthinking: the interview invite says to bring my steel toe shoes for the site tour. Do I bring them or wear them? Because they’re ugly sneakers (grey and orange) and wil look ridiculous with my suit but I also don’t feel great about changing shoes/carrying shoes around in an interview?

    Small interview story: I got hit with “why would I fire you in the first three months?” in an interview yesterday. Which I’ve only ever seen on this blog, but I totally remembered the appropriate answer despite it being an awful question. :D

    One of the interviewers was wearing a suit jacket over a crop top and leggings. Lemme tell you, that is a choice.

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I would bring them in a tote. Though I guess if someone’s wearing a suit jacket with crop top and leggings, they only have so much room to complain about your steel-toes not being pretty.

    2. Tio*

      I would probably bring them in a nice side bag if it were me, but I’ve never worked on a site that required them. If they know you’re supposed to wear them it probably wouldn’t look too weird to just wear them in, I would think.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      I would just wear them. The first impression of you in a suit with them will be a little weird, but I think it would be more weird to have to reassure everyone you brought them and then also change shoes partway through (and half to constantly carry the others with you). Plus crop top interviewer, they’re not going to bat an eye at orange shoes.

      What’s the right answer to the 3months question?

      1. Amber Rose*

        Crop top interviewer was a different company or I’d agree.

        Alison’s answer was “the needs of the role shifted” but that wouldn’t have worked for this role (because the needs are endlessly variable) so I said it would be because I wasn’t a fit for the team. They work very closely so I imagine a skilled person who just doesn’t mesh for whatever reason would not make 3 months.

        It’s a better answer than “because I slack off all day and do poor work” anyway.

        1. Artemesia*

          It is a ridiculous question. But a flaw on their part is a better answer than a flaw on yours.

    4. ruthling*

      i would bring them in a discreet bag of some sort and then change unless you think the whole interview will be on site.
      what was your answer to that question?

      1. Amber Rose*

        My answer was: if you thought I wasn’t a good fit for the team. Sometimes hires don’t work out. It’s not a judgment of anyone, just a fact.

    5. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Wear-or-bring for steel-toed shoes: I’d do the same thing you would do for a work day. If you knew you had to be in the plant/in the field for 2 hours on Tuesday, would you wear them all day, or just bring them in and change when necessary?

      I’ve done plenty of interviewing in winter where people wore boots but brought their dress shoes in a tote bag and changed in the lobby. And in DC in the 80s and 90s it was practically a uniform for women to wear white tennis shoes on the Metro and then change into dress shoes when they got to their desks.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Doesn’t the changing out of trainers also occur in the opening scenes of Working Girl with Melanie Griffith?

        1. WestsideStory*

          Yes, because in Manhattan in the ’80’s and 90’s we did this ALL the time. It was the legacy of a long-running transit strike and we all walked or hitchhiked miles to get to work. After the strike, the trend continued because it was practical.

          1. Artemesia*

            It is a good rule to always have shoes you can walk 10 miles in at work; 911 taught us that. You never know when you might have to walk a long ways in a disaster.

          2. ReallyBadPerson*

            We did it in Boston, too. Walking from the train on older sidewalks that haven’t always been treated with sand and salt in the winter is wretched in impractical shoes. Plus, boots and even sneakers are warmer than those dreadful heels.

    6. HSE Compliance*

      Typically, I have worn mine, but mine have been more of the bland boot style. If I were interviewing someone and they had their steelies in a bag they brought with, I wouldn’t bat an eye at all.

      However, if you are going to consistently be interviewing in spaces that you’d need steelies, I have found some very sleek looking steelies that look like they could be dress boots. As in, I’ve had to show someone the ANSI tag to prove that they really are steel toe, slip resistant, electrically rated, etc. boots. A pair of cowboy boots may also look nice enough under slacks.

      If you want to search: Rockport Works Carly Work Safety Toe (I got mine at Rogan’s) is the steelie I wear for any time I need to be dressy but also wear steelies.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Shoes are so impossible for my feet though. It took hours and two stores to find something that doesn’t hurt me, hence the ugliness.

        A poorly chosen pair of steelies did long term nerve damage to my toes so I’m extra sensitive on fit.

        1. HSE Compliance*

          If that’s the case, I really don’t think there’s any harm in bringing yours in a bag to change into! I’m constantly in and out of PPE and have been in multiple interviews. For my field at least, it’s par for the course. Plus, there’s not many steelies that aren’t in some way vaguely hideous. Shout out to the safety yellow/orange striping that seems to manifest on shoes, like that strip of random color is adding anything.

          I’m picky in mine for primarily weight and size/shape of toe box. Once I find a brand/style that works well, it stays forever. I was really surprised with finding the Carly style above worked, as typically that toe style is painful. I’m partial to the Avengers, but I knew a ton of people that really liked the Sketchers sneakers style.

          1. Hot in Texas*

            That random color stripe tells supervisor with a quick glance that employees are complying with the safety requirement. My former employer required it.

            1. HSE Compliance*

              I have not been in a place that has required it – there are a lot of sports sneakers that also have that stripe.

        1. Just Giving Shoe Advice*

          I have a pair of Xenas (a boot version, not the heels, although those look great!) and in addition to looking classy they’re VERY comfortable.

          I have arthritis in a toe from a previous poorly-fitting pair of steel toes, so I commiserate with the nerve damage the OP mentioned!

          1. Just Giving Shoe Advice*

            ok I just looked on the Xena website and the boots I have are called the Inertia.

            But they also have a new sneaker version that looks really stylish and comes in non-steel toed! I need supportive leather regular office shoes and I think I just might buy these!!!

    8. Sutemi*

      If the interview required steel toes, I would rethink wearing a suit. Even with office jobs, not that many people interview in suits these days.

      I would probably go for nice jeans, shirt and blazer with the steel toes (or whatever equivalent you would see for a site visit by execs). I would not try to make the suit match.

      1. Chris too*

        That was my thought too. I’ve seen applicants for office jobs that seem a bit overdressed for our site, where the PhDs are wandering around in jeans and steeltoes.

        I think I’d wear something a bit “nicer” than jeans.

      2. DressCode*

        It doesn’t matter how casual the office itself is, I would wear suit to an interview unless explicitly told otherwise (and I mean explicitly told wear X). That said, if I were told I needed safety boots I might ask what I should wear as I’ve worked in safety environments where suits would have been impossible to wear.

    9. IngEmma*

      Bring them in a bag if you’d be more comfortable in other shoes! I’d probably make sure my shoes weren’t super difficult to change but that’s all (idk like very scrappy sandals would maybe make this complicated … but assuming you’re wearing pretty standard office shoes you should be fine!

      I know some people say their safety shoes are as comfortable as other shoes but personally even the fancy ones are pretty uncomfortable for me. I wear them on the floor but change pretty quickly if I’m going to be in meetings etc for a while.

    10. EHSManager*

      Do you really want to wear a suit? I work in a management role in a manufacturing environment, and no one wears suits. When I came for my interview, I wore nice pants, a turtleneck, and brought a jacket just in case, but took the jacket off right away and felt comfortable in the pants and turtleneck. So, I’d rethink the suit and wear the steel toe shoes with whatever you decide to wear.
      Good luck with the interview! Manufacturing can be an interesting and exciting field!

      1. HSE Compliance*

        Agreed – I generally wear a nice blouse and trousers (thicker than normal slacks, but not a normal on-the-floor work jeans).

        Chemical/food/heavy manufacturing, specialist level up through director. I honestly can’t remember the last time I saw any of the management teams in suits. Even when the CEO came onsite, they wore nice branded button ups and generic nice pants. The last time I wore a suit jacket (with jeans) was at a conference.

    12. kalli*

      Either. I would personally bring them, because my steel toes hurt and I have a missing nail from the last job I had to wear them for, but you never ‘just’ need steel toes so there should be a transition point where you can change shoes.

      Wearing them is fine and since they asked, it’s not like they can hold it against you, especially as some places do prefer you don’t wear your work shoes on public transport on the way in and potentially track in who knows what.

    13. spcepickle*

      I would bring them, but I would also bring jeans. To be fair – I am a women and I mostly prefer to wear dresses. I also spend a fair amount of my work week on construction sites. And after rocking the dress with steel toed boots look and debating with safety if leggings count as pants (they don’t). I keep jeans and a t-shirt in both my office and my work site emergency go bag which lives in my car.

      I would carry them in a tote or other grocery store style bag. Either leave them in my car if the site visit was a different location then the interview or just carry them into the interview and tuck them by a door. It does not seem like this would surprise anyone who asked you to interview and do a site visit in the same day.

    14. Anita Brayke*

      Whenever I read about that question (“Why would I fire you in the first three months?”), I want the answer to be “Because you haven’t put in enough effort into asking the right questions, or you’re short sighted, so you make quick (and possibly wrong) hires that you haven’t thought out?”

    15. Jo*

      If you are working somewhere that steel toed shoes is a requirement, I’d say safety was a big deal. Probably with a lot of compliance issues. So my answer to firing would have been something along the lines of “I think firing would be the appropriate action if someone deliberately and repeatedly violated safety protocols. However, since I do follow all safety requirements, that would never be a problem.”

    16. Lola*

      If they’re asking you to bring steel toe shoes for a site tour, I wouldn’t choose clothes as formal as a suit. But about bringing versus wearing, I don’t think it makes a difference in optics, so do whichever feels more comfortable! (Just don’t wear a jacket over a crop top and leggings!)

    17. Blue Pen*

      Bring them, especially if that’s the wording the interviewer used. I’m sure they’ll show you to a bathroom or private room before the tour takes place so that you can comfortably change into them without having to be in front of everyone.

  4. Performance punishment*

    If there are two people on the team in the same role, is the assumption that they split the work 50/50? How does a manager figure in capability VS fairness in workload? If one person is carrying more of the load because they are more organized and efficient and skilled, then how should this be addressed, if at all?

    1. Tio*

      You want to make sure that people are doing roughly an equal amount of work, but that doesn’t mean the task have to be done exactly 50/50. I have one employee who is much better at emailing and one who is much better at data entry so the first does most of our correspondence and watches the inbox while the other updates the databases. If they’re both the same amount of busy it’s fine. That said, you want to ensure that they are in fact both the same amount of busy, and that they’re at least cross trained enough to cover each other. If one person is not pulling weight, or not able to complete tasks in a normal amount of time period, the manager should know about that so they can either redistribute, add tasks for the extra downtime, retrain, or determine if the second person is not a good fit.

    2. Nom de Plume*

      It really depends. If one person is slower but more precise, maybe that person gets the 40% of jobs that really need to be as close to perfect as possible, but the person who does pretty good work very quickly gets 60%. That might be a fair split.

      Alternatively, if one person is more skilled, they might be recognized as the senior whatever. This would typically come with a pay bump and a change in job description to outline what makes them senior, and could include providing guidance to the junior/regular whatever.

    3. Dust Bunny*

      Agree with above that they should be about the same amount of busy even if their work isn’t literally 50/50.

      I’m one of two assistants in my department. Technically we’re both assistants but I have more developed skills in some areas so the other one does a lot of our more rote work (of which there is a lot) and I get more of the abstract-thinking work. But we’re both busy.

    4. Parenthesis Guy*

      If one person is doing 55% and the other is doing 45%, that’s probably fine. Maybe the person doing 55% gets a bonus or higher salary.

      If one person is doing 75% and the other is doing 25%, that’s problematic. The person doing 75% should get a promotion or the person doing 25% should get a PIP. This presumes that the 25% is the same difficulty level as the 75%.

    5. ArtK*

      Be very careful about how you evaluate the work done; I’ve seen situations where the better person was penalized by the assumption. Here’s the summary: A team whose work consisted of discrete tasks, where some tasks were significantly more difficult and complex than others. The team had one rock start and several average folks. The rock star was given the harder tasks and the easier tasks went to the others. This meant that the rock star was completing *fewer* tasks than the other. An inexperienced manager evaluated the people based on the number of tasks completed, not the complexity. The rock star was rated lower than the others and eventually quit because of the unfairness.

    6. Artemesia*

      The person doing the more expert work should expect the other person to do the grunt work.

  5. Good Lord Ratty*

    More of a vent, but why, in 2024, are people still coming to work sick, coughing and sneezing? I work in a unionized position where we (theoretically anyway) have enough sick days allotted to us. It’s just immoral to do this! If you can’t stop coughing and sneezing, go the f home! Or at least wear a mask when you’re at work. For god’s sake.

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I have jokingly suggested that my husband get a tattoo on his forehead that says IT’S ALLERGIES. He has a chronic cough and frequent congestion (no, it’s not asthma, it’s legit just allergies) and now has a post-viral cough that sounds horrid. People look at him the way I imagine people looked at sick people during the Black Death.

      1. Constance Lloyd*

        I get 3 sick days a year and am not permitted to work from home. If I have even mild cold symptoms, I test for Covid every other day and stay home if I’m positive or have a fever. If it’s just a cough and some sniffles, I’ll wear a mask but I will absolutely be working.

      2. Good Lord Ratty*

        This is why I specifically said that my position supplies sick days. I’m not referring to people who don’t have a choice.

    3. HonorBox*

      Agreed!

      One nice note in follow up. I took a call from a co-worker this morning who sounded awful. She said she was planning to stay home because she didn’t want to bring in whatever she has to the rest of us. So there are people who do get it!

    4. I strive to Excel*

      1. Just because a person *has* sick time doesn’t mean they can take it without penalty, especially if they have a deadline to meet.

      2. Coughing/sneezing tend to be symptoms that stick around a long time after someone has stopped being contagious. Last time I got a cough from a cold it stuck around for a *month*.

      1. see you anon*

        Adding to the first point: My work (I’m admin in healthcare) does not have a sick day bank, but rather the system tracks how many sick days you take a quarter, and whether it’s a continual sickness (eg. you get the flu and take a couple days off), or if it’s sporadic (you take 2 sick days one month, and a sick day the next month, and a sick day the next week). If you have “too many” occurrences, you get flagged to HR and your manager has to talk to you about it.

        This, IMHO, deeply disincentivizes staff from taking sick days for things like a cold or a cough, as you’ll get flagged/dinged. And working from home with a cough/cold isn’t always an option.

        2. Anita Brayke*

          If I hear the word “occurrence” in an interview, I’m out. I literally cannot work in a “call center” environment (meaning that all the employees are numbers, it’s all about metrics, and you can be {and people frequently are} fired frequently.

          If I have sick time, or PTO, or personal time, that is part of my compensation package, and as such I will use it. Occurrence, my ass! {slides soapbox to the left}

      2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        I’ve always been prone to lingering coughs – after my last cold it lingered for a month as well. I am 100% on “stay home when contagious”, but agree that coughing and sneezing are poor indicators of whether someone is contagious.

      3. Clisby*

        Fortunately, I seem to have lost my susceptibility to bad colds – I haven’t had one in years. For a long time (like, high school up through my 40s), I’d get a couple of horrible colds every winter, and was sick for at least a month each time. No way I could take off 2 months from school or work – I just had to suck it up and go in. (The 2 times during this period when I got actual flu, I was sick for about 6 weeks each time – again, impossible to take off that much time from college or work.)

    5. Double A*

      I mean. There are a lot of answers to this question, even when someone has what you have decided must be adequate sick time for their life.

    6. Mimmy*

      I want to echo what others have said about lingering symptoms / symptoms of allergies. I have post-nasal drip, which sometimes makes me sound like I have a cold. Plus, when I get sick (currently getting over COVID), my cough lingers for weeks. I am not going to stay out of work for these lingering symptoms as long as I don’t feel sick.

      The other issue is sometimes people don’t feel like they can take off work, either because of lack of sick time or lack of adequate staffing. The latter has been my concern, especially this week. The way our program runs, even if one staff calls out, the whole day’s schedule can go out of whack. We’ve been short-handed for the last week or two and I just couldn’t bear the thought of adding to the chaos. Confusing COVID policies also don’t help.

    7. AnonForThis*

      I discovered recently that at my workplace if we have three absences within twelve months we trigger an automatic HR review. It’s ridiculous.

    8. Kesnit*

      1) Sometimes people do not realize how sick they are. I started sneezing and coughing late last week. Given that our office is in the basement and we have mold issues in the building, I assumed it was allergies. Then I mowed our extensive property Saturday, so when I felt worse, I thought it was because of all the dust, pollen, and who knows what thrown in the air from the riding mower. Finally Monday morning, I realized I was actually sick. So I took Monday and Tuesday off.

      2) As others have said, coughing and sneezing can last longer than the full-blown illness. I’m still coughing, even though I feel fine and my fever is gone.

      1. Mimmy*

        A big AMEN to your first paragraph!! That happened to me last week when I started having a funny sensation in my throat but didn’t feel ill. It was different than prior colds, but I figured, “Hmm, could this be allergies? Maybe a minor throat infection?” A couple of days later, I started to feel feverish so I was like, “Okay then, I guess I really am sick!”. Next day, I tested positive for COVID. Thank goodness I didn’t get super sick. It’s just tough to make a judgment call when you have a new symptom but don’t feel ill. I just don’t like the idea of calling out with every little symptom unless I can’t function, especially given the nature of my job.

    9. PotatoRock*

      At my workplace it’s because we get very limited single bucket PTO and wfh while sick is allowed “occasionally”, there’s no guidance on what “occasionally” means & you’re badged-in time is tracked, and the last round of layoffs “randomly” included everyone in the lowest 10% of badged in time. Even if it’s technically possible doesn’t mean people feel like they can do it.

      I do think there’s a self-reinforcing culture part too – if I get sick after it’s clear something’s going around the office, it seems like added risk to me to stay home, with little benefit to others (they’ve been exposed already anyway)

    10. A perfectly normal-size space bird*

      Ugh, no kidding. I’ve had covid six times now and each time it’s because one of my spouse’s bosses knowingly came into work sick. They’re paid a lot and can afford to take sick time. One literally said “I have no business being at work” while coughing all over people and equipment. He then passed it to a coworker who came in sick and insisted it was “just allergies.” Sure, sick leave there kind of sucks, but the coworker refused to wear a mask because “just allergies.” A week later, they had to shut down half the departments because everyone had covid.

      Which was less offensive than at the doctor’s office when the maskless front desk reception nurses kept coming in sick, coughing all over patient intake forms, pens, computers, and everything they touched, and then thinking I’m the weird one for soaking my debit card in hand sanitizer. Of all the places that should give ample sick days or make people wear masks, you’d think that would be the one, but as the pandemic proved, no one is safe from forehead-slapping cluelessness.

    11. kalli*

      Some people know if they don’t come in when sick, even if they’re less productive, their workload when they get back will make them sick again. As long as they take measures if they know or reasonably suspect they’re actually contagious, and otherwise maintain hygiene, it’s probably most polite to look the other way.

      Our society didn’t internalise the right messages from COVID, especially with the lack of and/or overenforcement and lack of consumer level education. So we’re right back to businesses pushing ‘if you can work, you must work’ combined with people even more in need of money because economy is still suffering from COVID and Ukraine and everything else…

    12. Dangerdanger*

      What a coincidence, I just learned today that my coworker “doesn’t like masks” because she decided to come to work sick. Without a mask. Our supervisor is just letting her be in her office maskless against company policy. Can people please just wear masks?

    13. Lucy P*

      I can’t say for every workplace, but for mine it’s because there’s only 10 PTO (combined vacation and sick) days per year and WFH is not an option.

    14. 1 Non Blonde*

      do you know their medical histories? I get that a somewhat healthy person maybe sees the sick leave you are given as enough, but someone with kids in daycare/school, older relatives they care for, or medical conditions of their own, even 80 hours of sick leave would go quickly. Wildly, people’s lives and needs vary, so what may be an excess for you, might just not be enough for someone else.

      1. Good Lord Ratty*

        Does this also mean they can’t wear a mask if they have no choice but to come to work sick? Interesting how so many people getting on my case about not allowing for every possible reason someone might have no choice but to come to work contagious has failed to mention they should just wear a damn mask if they must do so.

        Look, I’ll be blunt: I’ve had jobs where I didn’t get sick time; if I didn’t work, I didn’t get paid. I’ve come to work sick in the past, before covid, both because I couldn’t afford not to, and other times out of a warped sense of obligation. Since covid, I have taken sick time when I could, and have worn a mask around others when I didn’t have the ability to not come to work.

        MASKS STILL EXIST. IF YOU ARE SICK AND CANNOT HELP BUT COME TO WORK, WEAR ONE.

        1. Reebee*

          Let’s just say that you *will* get pushback on even the most basic of statements and posits if you don’t also write out every. single. possible. other. scenario. that exists where sick leave and mask-wearing are concerned. It really gets into “We can’t all have sandwiches” territory quite easily around here.

          FWIW, I hear ya, loud and clear.

        2. Dangerdanger*

          I’m just waiting for comments where people will say they’re deathly allergic to masks or something so they can’t possibly.

    15. Chauncy Gardener*

      I don’t know why, but I am SO aggravated by this! And how about don’t go out in public at all, huh???

      1. Good Lord Ratty*

        I mean, I’m not bothered by people going out in public if they need to, provided they wear a mask (that covers both nose and mouth). The key being “if they need to”. I’m not that draconian.

    16. TheBunny*

      Because there are companies out there who will give employees “attendance points” if they are out sick…even with a doctor’s note.

      I’m willing to bet at least some of them would love to be at home they just can’t afford to be fired for missing work.

    18. AllergiesSuck*

      I have severe year round allergies and asthma. I sneeze and cough nearly continuously. I am also medically unable to wear a mask. I work at home and am forced to mostly still isolate but at some point I would like to be able to interact with the outside world again. When I do, I will be riding public transit and go inside public spaces while coughing and sneezing. I am not looking forward to dealing with the reactions of everyone else around me.

    19. Lemon Chiffon*

      We get sick time, but if I use up all my sick time then I am penalized for using my vacation time to cover the difference. This is apparently an “inappropriate use of PTO” and has been noted on my permanent record as a concern (I had the flu?).

      This really disincentivizes people from staying home if they are sick, and if I have a mild cold I feel pressured to come in and just wear a respirator and eat lunch in my car.

      I would 110% stay home every time I am sick if I could, but I will get in trouble if I do, and I need to pay my bills.

      1. Lemon Chiffon*

        I should add — my company absolutely will not allow any WFH. But also, I wear an N95 while I am at work because I can’t afford to get sick, and if I am dangerously ill (COVID, flu, strep, infection of any kind), I will stay home no matter what.

        I am with you, I do not understand why people who feel forced to work while sick won’t wear a mask. But I also don’t really get why people aren’t masking in public as a matter of course anyway, since I am not interested in getting anyone’s sickness regardless of whether it is COVID.

    20. Firefighter (Metaphorical)*

      I AGREE OMG. Basically I read every single one of those people as saying “my need to feel important by attending this meeting / mild dislike of wearing a mask matters more than your partner’s life lololololol” and it fills me with rage, frustration, and helpless terror.

  6. Rex Libris*

    Personally, I’d just bring them. Do you have something plain you can just carry them in, like a tote bag or something?

  7. Nom de Plume*

    I’ve been having issues with my boss for the last 6 months. A few weeks ago I tried to address them by telling her what I needed, and she initially responded by giving me part of what I asked… and then two weeks later, during a different conversation, told me how it made her feel. She was very upset about it but kept claiming she wasn’t. (I’m not really worried about what I said – I’ve run it past a bunch of people, both those who know her and those who don’t, and my message was fine. It’s her reaction that’s off.)

    So I’ve decided to leave. It was really upsetting at first as I’ve loved this job and I’ve spent a third of my career here, but it’s time to go. I won’t be chosen over my boss and staying here is going to be damaging to both my career and my mental health, in the long term. I’ve been interviewing for other jobs and that’s fine.

    But I feel guilty about leaving my team. I even feel a little guilty about leaving my boss, because I know she’s planning for me to be around next year to lead some things. So my question is this: apart from making sure all my SOP documentation is up to snuff, what would you do to prepare for a departure to leave your colleagues in the best position? What have others done for you that you appreciated?

    Thanks in advance.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Honestly the documentation is the biggest part.

      I get feeling guilty but it’s a job. If people are miffed that you didn’t stay where you aren’t treated well, that’s on them.

    2. periwinkle*

      If you have time, warm handoffs for important projects and contacts would be appreciated. It’s tough to take over someone else’s work but it’s easier when that person talks you through the current status and introduces you to key people with whom you’ll collaborate.

      And then leave without guilt.

    3. Joey doesn't share food!*

      I, too, left my boss. I, too, said that “I won’t be chosen over my boss and staying here is going to be damaging to both my career and my mental health, in the long term.” I gave a 4 week notice that ‘the boss’ cut to 2-weeks. Ok. There wasn’t much of a team that I cared about leaving except one person. I told them of my resignation before I did ‘the boss’ out of courtesy and care.

      I made sure everything was documented to the ‘t’ before I left. I wanted to train someone, but ‘the boss’ didn’t want that. I assumed she would take it on. Turns out the ‘boss’ didn’t do the work, and never referred to the SOP. Turns out the ‘boss’ resigned 2.5 mos after I did.

      Then the org asked me back on contract to fix everything.

      I finished the original contract and they changed the scope of work. I countered with a higher rate (my original was a very good friends/family rate). They declined my new rate. My coworker was made that I didn’t accept the contract as is with the previous rate (which was no better than my last pro-rated hrly rate). She said I left them in a bind. No, I didn’t – your ‘leadership/our former boss’ left you in a bind.

      Time to go. I’m sorry it wasn’t fully on your terms though.

    4. Mad Harry Crewe*

      If your boss wants you to be around next year to lead things, she should make an environment that you want to stay in. Her reaction sounds super weird and I’m glad you’re on your way out.

      Your coworkers will survive, although they may make the same choice you are making, and find somewhere else to be. That’s ok!

    5. Goldfeesh*

      Your boss should be the one feeling guilty over driving you out. You shouldn’t be the one feeling guilty.

    6. Reebee*

      I’ve been in your shoes and honestly, I didn’t feel responsible other than leaving good documentation. It’s kind of you to be concerned, but really, they’ll be okay.

      Really.

      Good luck in your job search!

    7. Anon for this*

      I had a very similar situation. As well as documenting I tried to do the best by my team as I was leaving. In some cases there wasn’t much I could do, but if there was an outstanding process or request I made sure they were all cleared (I also suggested to them if they had requests to put them in before I finished). And where appropriate I made a point of saying that I’d be happy to give references.

      Beyond that it’s hard to do anything more. Ultimately you’re leaving, and everyone needs to take care of their own choices. I think being warm, wishing well and then letting go does a lot

  8. darlingpants*

    This is theoretical, but how do companies lay people off if they are on some kind of leave or vacation?
    We had a 30% layoff last year and it seemed like everyone who was impacted was both at work and actually in the office that day (we are lab based, but people WFH when they don’t have lab work to do), which seemed kind of improbable to me when it’s that many people being impacted.

        1. Less Bread More Taxes*

          I saw someone in my LinkedIn network got laid off during her maternity leave. According to her post, they told her on the morning of her first day back.

          2. Slightly Less Evil Bunny*

            I’m pretty sure I read that during the Muskification, some Twitter employees who were on maternity leave were notified via email that they had been laid off. Granted, that was a heavy WFH workplace during those before-times. And it still assumes that the person would be checking their email while on leave.

    2. darlingpants*

      Adding the detail that in our case, there was only 2 weeks notice (it was pretty awful), so waiting until someone came back from a week long vacation would have cut the notice time in half.

    3. Tio*

      You’re not legally allowed to lay off anyone on FMLA in basically any case, so if it was medical leave, that’s why.

      You can lay someone on vacation off, but that’s up to the company. Either those people were not going to be laid off or they decided they didn’t want to lay off someone who wasn’t available to return their things. But also, they may have specifically arranged for the people who were being laid off to be in office as well.

      1. Tio*

        Also, those vacation people might still get laid off when they come back, but they didn’t want to hold up the biggest chunk.

        1. West Coast Commenter*

          This is not true. You can terminate someone on protected leave so long as the reason is unrelated to the leave (e.g., a RIF). There are morale/image/evidentiary reasons companies prefer not to do this, but it is legal

          1. lost academic*

            This. You can do it by eliminating the role, etc. You just have to take pains to show it was not related to the leave.

      2. GythaOgden*

        I think you can lay someone off while they’re on FMLA so long as it can be proven that it wasn’t related to the actual leave. I can see someone being a bit cautious, but yeah, not illegal at all.

        https://katzmelinger.com/blog/2023/06/can-i-get-laid-off-while-im-on-fmla-leave/

        I have no knowledge of the law firm in question but it was on the first page of Google and every other similar site said the same thing.

        The company would have to paper-mache its butt in legal documentation, but I can see it being possible if everything is in order.

    4. Bast*

      I worked for a company that had no qualms about firing/laying off people on vacation. People were actually afraid to take more than a couple of days off at a time because HR hated meetings and confrontation, so they’d wait until you went on vacation, and then you’d get a call that your position was being eliminated and you’d get your paperwork in the mail, etc. Several people had vacations ruined this way.

    5. ThatGirl*

      Well, it depends, but in my case I had a vacation day scheduled for a Friday that could not be moved (we were flying to FL for a cruise), and so my grand-boss quietly laid me off the Thursday afternoon before, with the understanding that if anyone found out before it happened for them on Friday I would not get my severance.

    6. Donkey Hotey*

      The one and only time I’ve been laid off, I was seven days into a two week vacation (by myself, 1,000 miles from home). Bonus: I had planned my trip to meet people at all the other branches of the company who I’d never met face to face. The email came through about 30 minutes after I left the last office.

    7. Healthcare Worker*

      At my office, the last time we had layoffs my colleague was on a river cruise in Europe. Yes, they were called and laid off with no severance. Not a method I recommend. Yes, morale is low and we all have an active backup plan.

    9. Nola*

      A friend of mine got laid off when she was on vacation in Thailand. She ducked out early on the Friday before her two week vacation started to get some last minute packing done.
      On Wednesday or Thursday of the following week she checked her personal email and had several emails from her boss in increasing levels of sternness asking her to call him. They even included a toll free number so she wouldn’t incur any long distance fees or roaming charges (this was over 20 years ago).

      She figured she was going to get chewed out for not finishing a couple of non-urgent projects and leaving early without checking in with her boss or team leads so she decided to wait until the following week to call.

      Finally called in the next Thursday – almost a full two weeks after she’d left work. She’d been laid off along with about 10 others. The layoffs had happened on the first Tuesday of her vacation but her boss had planned to tell her on the last Friday she was in the office but, since she left early without telling anyone ….

      She wound up staying in Thailand for another month because in her words “I can be broke and miserable here just as easy as I can be broke and miserable in Ohio.”

      1. GythaOgden*

        Nice one.

        NGL, I’d want to get home ASAP, but if someone enjoyed the weather there then it’s as good a place as any. (And I don’t live in Ohio. I don’t think I’m far off it in British terms but yeah, not in Ohio.)

    10. KnittingAtTheBaseballGame*

      I was out on medical leave and was laid off. I just happened to check my email and saw a calendar invite from HR for a 20 minute meeting scheduled later that day. I knew what was coming and went ahead and attended. Because I was on FMLA my official notice period began after my return from leave.

    11. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      My sister was laid off while she out on FMLA recovering from surgery. Her company combined two departments and the other manager had been with the company longer and that was how they justified cutting her position.

    12. Mad Harry Crewe*

      We had someone on long medical leave when the Covid layoffs hit. They let her finish out the leave and then told her.

    13. Phone*

      I once got laid off over the phone while out sick. It’s pretty sucky but HR said they had to tell everyone on the same day.

  9. Unwanted certification*

    My team is being pushed by higher-ups to pursue a difficult, time-consuming certification. This certification is relevant to the industry, but is not relevant to our jobs. (Imagine a cybersecurity company asking everyone in their marketing department to get a CISSP.)

    Not only do I have no interest in this certification since I prefer to stay industry-agnostic when I seek promotion, but also my personal life is currently a dumpster fire. I simply do not have time or sanity to spare for studying and test-taking.

    That said, reading between the lines is making me nervous that opting out could put me at a disadvantage come layoffs. The company had a major re-org in 2023 and the effects are still trickling down, so the future is uncertain. About 25% of my team has already agreed to do the certification.

    What would you do in my place?

    1. Mockingjay*

      Ask whether any of the training time can be done during work hours. It’s a company requirement, which makes it a job duty.

      Also, has anyone asked about repercussions if they fail the test?

      You’ve noted a larger issue, though; company stability. So, put in minimal time on the certification course (at least get it started) for appearances, while you start a job search.

      (I feel you; while I agree that relevant certs can certainly enhance specific role skills, companies including mine have decided to ‘collect’ certs as an easy way to demonstrate what great staff they have.)

      1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

        This is exactly what I was going to comment. I hate collecting certs I don’t actually need just for appearances.

    2. Tio*

      I’m not sure why a certification would make you less industry agnostic? If anything it would lock you out of certain parts of the industry that want it, wouldn’t it?

      Either way, it would depend on how much of a dumpster fire my life is. I would probably try and get the cert, just because I like having knowledge skills esp if a company is going to pay for it, but maybe you can tell your boss you want to get it but can’t do it for 6 months due to personal scheduling?

      1. Unwanted certification*

        “I’m not sure why a certification would make you less industry agnostic?”

        Because putting in that level of effort for something so unrelated to my job implies that I want to climb the industry rather than climb my role. Like, imagine a receptionist at a law firm taking the bar. That implies s/he wants to move up in the legal profession, rather than move up to become an executive admin.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          If you do end up going through with the certification, remember that a resume/LinkedIn profile/etc. are marketing documents. You can have tailored versions of your resume, one with the cert. for jobs you apply to that are in the same industry and one without the cert. for jobs you apply to in all other industries. You won’t look too tied to the [cybersecurity industry/legal profession/etc.] if companies don’t even know you have [CISSP/passed the bar/etc.]. Or you can leave it off entirely if the certification isn’t related to how you want to grow your career.

    3. Cheap ass rolling with it*

      Is the certification being done on company time or personal time?

      If it’s being done on company time, I’d just suck it up, because they’re paying you for your time, so they get to decide what you do with that time.

      If you have to use personal time, I’d just push back and say you don’t have time due to your personal obligations. Everyone has a life outside of work — could be taking care of children, elderly, divorce, etc — I don’t think you need to explain what’s going on why you can’t commit personal time.

        2. I take tea*

          I would not do it on my personal time, if it isn’t anything I want for my own personal growth. I’d push back, and say that I cannot possibly do this outside of work, especially as you already do long hours. That way burnout lies. I might claim I’m sorry for political reasons, but I wouldn’t be in the slightest. I think it might hold you back a little, but I don’t think they would lay you off for that, if you do your main job properly.

    4. Hyaline*

      I’d probably try to hash out how likely it is that they’re going to stick with this push (do they have a habit of “WOW this is the BEST everyone should DO IT!” and then it fizzles within a couple months?), how long you’d have to do the certificate (is it on your own time, is it self-paced, could you dip in and out…), and if they’re going to incentivize doing it early/soon. If it seems like you could push it off a little without putting a target on yourself, it might make sense to put a hold on it until you’re less generally overwhelmed (and you get a handle on follow-through). If it seems like you’d better be showing some interest, but you can, like, sign up and then take four years to actually finish…go for it but take it as slow as you need while your personal life straightens itself out.

      1. Gatomon*

        Yes… what are the consequences for not obtaining the cert? Fewer opportunities for promotion anywhere in the company? Missing out on increased pay? Nothing?

        My company has tried to push a cert on semi-relevant departments, but I don’t think more than 1-2 people have actually obtained it. There doesn’t appear to be any consequence for not getting it. While the exams are paid for (at least first two attempts), and training materials are provided along with acceptance that you can work on it at work, you won’t get any relief from existing duties to free up work time to complete it. So in reality, if you’re serious about getting the cert, you’re going to have to sacrifice some of your personal time.

        I see the same cycle repeat at my workplace: Department A is overloaded, so instead of hiring, management decides to push some task to lower-level Department B. Department B doesn’t understand what they’ve been asked to do, botches it/doesn’t do it. Management decides the solution is to force a cert on them instead of providing training focused on the task. Management doesn’t follow up with any consequences for not getting the cert, nor do they follow up with any consequences for not doing the task or botching the task, so… it just ends up back with Department A again. Rinse and repeat.

    6. TheirCall*

      If they want you to spend your work time getting this certification rather than doing your normal job, I’d say that’s their choice. I think you probably just need to suck it up and deal with whatever extra stress it causes. But definitely ask them what parts of your normal job you should skip to do the training; if they say none you’d have done standing to push back.

      Good luck.

  10. Justin*

    I appreciate guidance from last week about whether or not to care that it’d be nice to have a person in my area and whether or not it would go better to have someone similar to me.

    We are lining up the final round (a panel with my colleagues) and I’ve picked three people I like a lot, all of whom I’d be happy to work with. One is here, but it’s not why (and most of the applicants were around here so it would be weird if none of the finalists were just by chance).

    I definitely have one I like the most (and I think she’ll do fantastic in the panel), but we’ll see what happens. So excited to have my team of one grow by 100% in about 6 weeks.

  11. AcademiaIsWeird*

    What is a professional, non-emotional way to let my boss/leadership team know I’m disappointed in the merit increase I received? For context, it’s 2% less than last year but I got a higher rating on my yearly review this year. I had a good review last year and was rated as exceeding the expectations of my role but this year I got the top rating (think Outstanding/Exemplary Employee level) but a smaller raise.

    I want to keep emotion out of my response so it doesn’t dilute the message but this is very disheartening. Ideally I would reply that I’m disappointed and it seems my yearly performance doesn’t affect my raise so why would I keep putting in this effort, but that’s doesn’t seem like a productive way to raise this!

    1. londonedit*

      I’d keep it brief and phrase it as something like ‘I was wondering whether you could explain the reasoning behind this year’s merit raises? Last year I was rated Exceeds Expectations, and I received a 5% raise. This year I’ve been rated Outstanding, but my raise is 3%. Is there a reason behind that?’ And then just see what they say.

      1. Nom de Plume*

        Yes, this is what I was going to recommend, too. They may very well not have any control over what an Exceeds Expectations gets versus an Outstanding. Last year may have just been a good year.

      2. Tio*

        Also, look into the market salaries for someone with your position and experience, and bring the receipts so you can say “I’ve looked at similar positions in the market and they’re around X. Can we increase my merit raise to Y so I’m more in line with the market salaries?”

      3. AcademiaIsWeird*

        Yes, I think this is the way. I know there is a general merit pool that is divided among all staff. Maybe it was smaller this year but I would still like to hear the answer. Even if it’s “the pool was small” I want them to explain that to me. I feel like it’s disheartening that there’s nothing a staff member can do, even with the highest rating, to have a meaningful merit increase.

        1. Hyaline*

          Yes–I know that “merit raise” makes it sound like the raise is based entirely on merit, but in almost every situation I’ve seen in academia, there are other factors at play (how big was the pool, did this or that union negotiate a standard raise, did we decide that last year’s Outstanding was this year’s Pretty Darn Good…)

        2. HonorBox*

          If you ask and point out that the ratings don’t necessarily translate equally to percentage increases, that may be data that whoever is in charge of the pool can use when they request more in future years. Because if you have people who are anywhere longer term, you’re going to need additional funds in that pool because even a smaller percentage increase is going to mean more actual dollars.

        3. Cj*

          Even if the pool of money available was the same or even more than it was last year, if more people got higher ratings this year, it seems to me that people that got the same or higher ratings as they did last year might have gotten a lower merit raise this year.

          this is an extremely simplified example, but let’s say there was a pool of $10,000 both last year and this year to be allocated to the team members based on their ratings. also assume that there are only two team members. last year one of them didn’t get a terrible rating, but did get needs improvement, and they got a $2,000 raise. the other team member exceeded expectations, and got an $8,000 raise.

          then let’s assume that this year both team members got outstanding / exemplary ratings, and each of them got a $5,000 raise, so the one team member that got a higher rating got a lower raise than they did last year.

          like I said, this is a really simplified example, and I know the OP said that the raises are based on a percentage, not a dollar amount. but maybe the team member with the lower rating last year had a bad year and had done really well previously, so that their salaries are similar. or maybe it’s not even the same team member that got the lower reading last year, but somebody that they tired at the same salary as OP. and there’s probably a lot more than two team members, therefore more likely that at least some of them would be making the same salary or even a Higher ne than the OP.

        4. Cj*

          Even if the pool of money available was the same or even more than it was last year, if more people got higher ratings this year, it seems to me that people that got the same or higher ratings as they did last year might have gotten a lower merit raise this year.

          this is an extremely simplified example, but let’s say there was a pool of $10,000 both last year and this year to be allocated to the team members based on their ratings. also assume that there are only two team members. last year one of them didn’t get a terrible rating, but did get needs improvement, and they got a $2,000 raise. the other team member exceeded expectations, and got an $8,000 raise.

          then let’s assume that this year both team members got outstanding / exemplary ratings, and each of them got a $5,000 raise, so the one team member that got a higher rating got a lower raise than they did last year.

          like I said, this is a really simplified example, and I know the OP said that the raises are based on a percentage, not a dollar amount. but maybe the team member with the lower rating last year had a bad year and had done really well previously, so that their salaries are similar. or maybe it’s not even the same team member that got the lower reading last year, but somebody that they tired at the same salary as OP. and there are probably a lot more than two team members, therefore more likely that at least some of them would be making the same salary or even a higher than the OP.

          1. Cj*

            my apologies for the double post, especially such a lengthy one. it’s possible there’s another one somewhere, because it didn’t seem to post the first couple times.

    2. Everyone is different*

      While the percent may be less is the total dollar amount less? My husband worked for a company many years ago who never gave raises as a percentage of your income. It was always a specific dollar amount. And usually the same amount for a number of years in a row. Simple example – year 1 – wage $20,000, raise $100/month, 6%; year 2 – wage $32,000, raise $100, 3.75%.

      1. AcademiaIsWeird*

        Yes, the dollar amount of the increase is $100 less (per paycheck) than the increase last year. This is definitely done by percent, not specific dollar amount.

    3. There’s hope*

      Same thing happened to me last month but mine was 5% less. The reason I was given is that with last years’s increase I am in an upper bracket where the percentage range is lower and topped at 5% so by giving me a 7% they were already going above and beyond…

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      Agree with those who are saying to just ask about how the amount was arrived at. It might be just that the pool was smaller, or it might be that you’re starting to bump up against the top of the pay band for your position or something.

    5. Mutually supportive*

      It might also be worth asking about the wider context – if the company did well last year and the average bonus was, lets say, %5, and you got 5%. This year the company didn’t do so well and the average bonus was only 2%. But you’ve done very well so you’ve got 3%!! Well done you – it’s less than last year but more than most people got…

      1. AcademiaIsWeird*

        It’s a higher ed institution so they don’t pitch it to us in terms of company growth and it’s not considered a bonus. I’m not sure why some years the merit pool is bigger or smaller but getting a smaller increase after a higher performing year is demoralizing.

        1. Pretty As A Princess*

          I wind up in a position of needing to explain things like this a lot to my team members and I hate it as much as you do! I am also at a unit of an institute of higher education and when this situation occurs, it is almost always going to be because the overall pool was smaller. Our university president basically announces the size of the pool, and the pool is not just for merit raises but for all related compensation actions in the year: promotion raises, equity cycles (we do quarterly equity reviews), small spot bonuses throughout the year, bonuses (there’s a strict limit on how many and what sizes) and merit raises. So even if “our” pool is say 5%, by the time I as a director am making comp recommendations, my pool for merit raises might be 3.5%.

          And so yeah I hear you that if you got 5% one year as an Exceeds and then the next year when you are a Top Of the Line and get 4%, that’s frustrating – but we don’t have the same amount of money to use in merit raises every year so I can’t do the same math every year based on performance ratings where X rating = Y raise. (And I am glad that the formula is not so strict that I am given a mandatory X rating = Y raise each year but that is another story for another post.) All I can do as a manager is calibrate on the level of the pool. And I try to strategically use bonuses and raises together.

          And – because it is something I have done before – it is possible that last year your boss might have pushed your raise higher toward the top of their pool because they had some degree of flexibility that they did not have this year. For example I have had situations where my pool was higher because of staff departures after the pool was calculated, but before I made my comp reccos. I had to ensure that everything was equitable and above board, but it gave me the flexibility to bump up some raises to get some consistently strong performers a slightly bigger raise than I would normally have been able to give.

          I think it is very fair to approach your manager and ask how things work. I would be matter of fact about this – point out the % level of raise you got in different years and the different ratings and ask if there is more clarity they can give about how raises are determined. I had a relatively recent hire ask me about this last year because someone misinterpreted a comment about the size of the pool being X as “the average raise is X” and they asked for clarity because their raise was less than X. It was very matter of fact and I explained how the pool works and what comes out of it, etc. I really welcomed the conversation. You likely have a good relationship with your boss and I would expect them to welcome the conversation.

    6. Girasol*

      Does your raise include cost of living or is COL separate? Since the inflation rate is over 2%, if that’s all the raise you get, it’s not just disappointingly low. You’re actually losing ground in purchasing power. You might point that out and ask what you should work on improving in the coming year to actually rate an increase.

      1. AcademiaIsWeird*

        This is all we get. My rent went up 6% and the raise was 3% so obviously I’m unhappy about this for multiple reasons.

      2. CostOfLiving*

        I’ve never known anyone who regularly got COL increases. I’ve seen people mention them here but it still seems weird to me. I have seen some companies do some type of larger raise every few years to try to compensate for COL increases, but even that’s unusual. I’ve worked at some companies that gave an annual raise every year but a good raise was around 2%. I’ve worked at others that give slightly larger raises less frequently. I’ve been at my current company 4.5 years and I’ve gotten two raises. This is true whether or not the company also has a bonus program.

        If you can’t afford to keep working somewhere then you probably need to go work somewhere else. That said, if you’re going to leave without a raise then no harm in asking.

  12. Excel Gardener*

    I’m very unproductive in the mornings, and despite wanting to be better about this I haven’t. I WFH on an 8-5 schedule and I do log on at 8 consistently, but aside from answer a few Slack messages I rarely start actually working until 10am at least, sometimes not even until 11am. I’m not usually tired, yet I find it very hard to be focused and maintain motivation. Often I end up spending a lot of time reading the news, listening to podcasts, making breakfast, or even just zoning out. Sometime in the late morning it feels like a light is switched on and suddenly I’m highly focused and motivated.

    Anyone else have this problem? How do you deal with it?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      I save a couple easy tasks from the day before to do first thing the next morning, once you have that momentum going its easier to keep working. If I don’t have any easy tasks left, I set a 5-10min timer, tell myself Im just going to work those 5min then go get my coffee or whatever else my brain is wanting to do instead of working. Once I get going I usually don’t stop (time goes off, but I’m mid email etc).

      1. Justin*

        Yeah, Block off the calendar time for easy tasks. Save some emails you need to respond to, maybe something like logging your hours into an online system if you do that. Whatever is low lift, do it to start the day.

      2. English Rose*

        Agreed. There’s this approach that’s built up that you should get the bigger more difficult tasks out of the way first thing, but for some of us it’s easier to build up to that by getting some small task momentum going first.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I figure out one thing I can do at the start of the day that’s productive. Doesn’t have to be a big task, but it has to be more than busy-work. Then I make sure to do that thing, right away, and it gets me in a productive mood for the rest of the day.

    3. Bast*

      If focus is the problem, do you have micro tasks you can work on? I am the opposite, where I start to lose focus and motivation in the afternoon, so I save small, easily achievable tasks for the afternoons and the big heavy long projects for the morning.

    4. Hyaline*

      Make a list the day before while you’re in productive mode of low-hanging fruit tasks that you can do while you’re in your lower energy mode. They might be the same every day, in which case you can get into a routine, or they might be different and “On-Brain You” needs to assign them to “Still Warming Up Brain You” for the next morning.

      Alternately…if you’re getting your work done and you’re available if needed to coworkers…in what ways does this matter? It’s ok to have more and less productive times to the day, and you’d do it in the office, too, so you might consider if there are specific problems you need to solve or if you’re perceiving something that’s normal as a problem.

    5. Harlowe*

      Is this actually a problem? Your phrasing implies that you WFH, so would anyone actually mind if you used a shifted schedule?

      1. GythaOgden*

        Depends on whether OP is working past 5 or not.

        I can only speak for my role which is the office task-bunny, but I set an appointment for 9 to check all the reporting channels I set up for my colleagues to reach me on directly if they needed a specific thing actioned. They rarely use them (long story but I need to keep signposting them I guess) but because the reminder goes off at 8.45 I’m in work mode by 9. (I officially start at 9 but I am usually logging on by 8.30 to catch discussion that went on after 5pm the previous evening. I’m up and ready by 8.30 and sitting around for that extra half hour would just mean I got engrossed in something else, so I might as well open up and get going.)

        My role is still very reactive so things can slow right down, but I’ve occasionally had project work to be getting on with and I start that at 9 on the dot. My problem period is in the opposite direction — I give my employer until the dot of 5, but at about 3pm I’m either well into something and on a roll or clock-watching like crazy. I keep occupied and available but it is like time just slows right down.

    6. Spreadsheet Queen*

      Yes! I, um, have dealt with it for over 20 years by just starting later (between 9 and 10 am) and for the most part my employers have adjusted. (Formally even, although as supervisors change, I’m not sure they all necessarily know that I negotiated it previously, because it isn’t in writing). I do make myself available for meetings, and don’t generally complain about the time unless they are doing daily standups for a project for weeks at 7:30 am. And I obviously work my full time (and then some). I do my best to do top quality work, support my fellow employees, and all that. Also, because my evenings are usually flexible, if I get in a groove, I just let it happen as long as it goes, so I can be exceptionally productive at those times. (I have also learned the hard way that coming in at “normal people time” didn’t result in leaving at “normal people time”. So basically, I was spending more time at work to do the same amount of stuff as if I started a little later. That’s crazy.

      Everyone has a work pace. Some people are really productive in the morning. Some people run steady state all day. Some people are really productive in the afternoon. As long as you’re getting your work done, available during core hours to interact with your coworkers and internal/external clients, the ups and downs of productivity during the day shouldn’t matter. It’s ok to have downs as long as the ups counteract them.

      Yes, I know that not every workplace and manager will go with the flow on this. But there are places out there who will be flexible to get your best work.

    7. Not Your Average Bear*

      Ah, my twin is here! This is me. I’m not a morning person. I can’t engage in the workie thingie until around 10 AM but I do need some adjustment time. If I don’t have an earlier meeting, I ‘start’ at 9 AM and I use that first hour to work through the five stages of recognizing that I really do have to work today. That means I check social media quick, read the headlines, a couple of advice columns (all of this about 30 minutes total), then I ease into the work part of the day by reviewing my email and clearing my inbox of any FYI type emails and prioritizing the remainder. I double check my to do list, update or rewrite it as needed, find easy things that need reviewing, schedule meetings, review decks for presentation, basically anything that doesn’t really require more than 3 functioning brain cells. By the time I’m done with that, I’m in the groove, fully caffeinated, and ready to take on things that require 7-8 brain cells working together. The really BIG stuff though doesn’t happen until after lunch.

    8. ecnaseener*

      First, figure out how much of a problem it actually is — are you falling behind on work or having to work late, or are you keeping up with everything but you just feel guilty about it?

      Assuming the former: set up a routine of simple busy-work tasks to start your day. I have the opposite problem, so these are my end-of-day tasks, but it’s stuff like: go over the day’s notes and make sure all action items have made it to my to-do list, everything important has been saved somewhere I’ll be able to find it, etc; go over any un-filed emails for the same reason; save any correspondence that needs to be saved where others can access it; update any tracking/metrics; check for incoming assignments; follow up on things where I’m waiting for a response; etc etc.

    9. kalli*

      I start my computer then I get my breakfast milkshake while the software logs in. (half an hour! to log in! but this time counts as work time, so sayeth the manager). Then I count up all my emails and prioritise things for the day and check for new work. Then any time I’m not working until my ability to focus wakes up, I make up at the end of my shift when my brain and body are more cooperative (assuming there’s still work, which sometimes there is not). I do track that time to make sure that I am actually doing enough working hours, but since I get paid hourly if I put 4 hours on my time sheet I make sure I’ve done 4 hours, even if it took me 6 hours to do it.

    10. RagingADHD*

      I have up and down tomes during the day, and have had my whole life.

      I do my best to have a list, choose low-hanging fruit tasks for braindead time, and make sure I’m addressing anything that comes in needing a timely response.

      But big picture, I figure that as long as I’m meeting goals at work and not deliberately just goofing off / not showing up, it’s okay to be in “monitor and respond if needed” mode sometimes. I have never gotten any kind of negative feedback about my productivity, so it seems to be fine.

      By contrast, I’m not a big chit-chatter. I’m friendly, but most of my coworkers spend a lot more time “visiting”. I kind of consider my mental downtime and their social downtime to wash out in the long run.

    11. Admin of Sys*

      Honestly, I tried many many variations and then just committed to getting up 2 hours earlier. Nothing else I did ever made me productive before a slow ramp up and meandering morning, so I just moved ‘wake up’ earlier to account for it. Now I wake up at 6a, read email, make coffee and breakfast, poke at the internet, and casually let myself get to functioning by 8:30ish

      1. Cazaril*

        Same here. I’m most productive in the morning, once I “warm up”. Fortunately, middle age has me rising very early. I have my coffee and quiet time in the morning, then get it together and go to work. Another thing that helps is to make a to-do list the night before, so when I get in, my not quite warmed up brain doesn’t have to figure out the day’s priorities.

    12. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Do you need to log on at 8? Could you shift your schedule back an hour or two?

      I prefer not to exist at all before 10a, and I do much better brain-thinky work after lunch. My current job is 9-6, and here’s what my ideal day looks like:

      9-10 – catch up on chats from people who start earlier in the morning, connect with my team, check my calendar for the day
      10-12 – accumulate new tasks (support tickets), possibly handle some very rote tasks that don’t require any brainpower. Weirdly, I also do just fine with customer calls (tech support, so collecting info about problems or doing simple live troubleshooting).
      12-1 – lunch
      1-3ish – start to ramp up brainy stuff with smaller tasks that still require more focus than I could offer earlier – following up on tickets, making simple SQL queries, responding to Engineering ticket questions, email.
      2ish-6 – get really stuck into juicy problems that require a lot of focus. I can’t sustain this for the full four hours, it’s usually more like 60-90 min x 1-2 things, depending on what I’ve got on my plate for the day.

    13. Irish Teacher.*

      Do you have to work 8-5? When I correct the State Exams, I more or less work 1:30pm to around 10pm.

    14. AnonForThis2ndFamilySurprise*

      Depending on the functions and people’s expectations for your availability, what about using technology as your friend who shows up for you in the early morning? If you’re writing an email or transmitting a report and your brain does this really well at 6:30pm, use the delay send option so it goes out the next morning at 8:30am or 9am. (Not at 8 because that makes it look as if you started working at 7 or 7:30am)

      This assumes that you’re using that later-day productivity to accomplish a day’s work. I’m only addressing the need for others to recognize that you’re getting the work done, if it isn’t possible to request an actual schedule change.

      Other option if your workplace is more flexible: My workplace is a kind and humane place that generally recognizes people have lives and brains work differently. From early in the pandemic a number of us started using an email footer along the lines of “I may respond to emails at times that work for me that aren’t within your normal schedule. Don’t feel you have to respond outside your work hours.” That way I could send an email I wrote at 7:30pm when I finish it, not delaying until the next morning, and not make people feel as if they’re supposed to be on the clock around the clock when I explicitly tell them not to do that.

      This works for higher-level positions with supervisors who support that approach. They rely on us to get the work done and we do.

      I do use delay send if I want to make sure I’m not suggesting the need for an immediate reply from my energizer bunnies who will see my email pop up and jump online when they should be leading their personal lives. I just encourage them to take breaks when they need them and try to model leading a sustainable life schedule.

      1. Wolf*

        I prefer the openly flexible times. I prefer to work 6am to 3pm, and I’m happy to spend the first hour working through the emails I received from the last afternoon.

    15. constant_craving*

      Breaking tasks into the tiniest possible subtasks can help. Small enough, they feel ridiculous to postpone. Then you can build some momentum.

      Pomodoro method has been helpful to me too. You can even start with a break.

    16. cleo*

      For me, planning my first task of the day ahead of time, at the end of the previous work day, makes a huge difference.

    17. DefinitiveAnn*

      I try to get people to schedule meetings and software installs in the morning, since I am best able to focus in the afternoon and these are easy for me. Like someone upstream posted, my day also starts and ends late.

    18. Amateur Florist*

      I have had this issue a couple of times. The first time, it was my iron levels that were very low. The second time, a blood sugar control issue. I would recommend making sure there isn’t anything physically going on.

  13. Potential Job Hopper*

    I posted last week about wanting to leave a new role after only a month. And I’m happy to say in the past week, I signed a new offer and submitted my resignation!

    In most ways I’m relieved, but the conversation with my manager didn’t go well. I wasn’t expecting him to be thrilled, but I thought I would get a professional version of “That sucks, but I understand.” Instead, he argued that my reasons for leaving weren’t good enough. I guess this is just confirmation that I made the right decision, but my stomach is in knots right now.

    1. Hyaline*

      Ew, I’m sorry he made you deal with that instead of just being a professional and accepting your resignation. I hope you’re out of there ASAP!

    3. ampersand*

      I’m glad to hear you’re leaving! Obviously, decent managers don’t say things like that–I hope he uses the weekend to get past it and be a reasonable person next week!

    4. cityMoose*

      Your reasons are your business, not his! You don’t have to justify why you are leaving. You are not owned by him. Your manager needs to deal with his own feelings. Hang in there, and congratulations on the new offer!

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      Ugh. This sounds like more confirmation that this isn’t the right place for you nor is he the right boss for you.
      Remember, this is a him problem and not a you problem. And, be thankful this dude isn’t in your personal life. He sounds like a jerk!

    6. allathian*

      Yay! At least your time there was short enough that you can easily leave the place off your resume.

  14. Hyaline*

    For those who are recent college grads or work in academic areas–how important are office hours to you?

    For context: During the pandemic shutdown/move online, my department eliminated required office hours. We never formally brought back the pre-2020 requirement to have a certain number of office hours per course. I’ve found that students simply do not come to posted office hours when I’ve had them, and prefer to email, catch me before or after class, and/or schedule a follow up that suits their schedule. I’m really not seeing a point to resurrecting set office hours for myself–but am I missing anything you’ve noticed or that you found valuable? (I’m very responsive on email FWIW–typically within a couple hours.)

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      They’re more important to your own work flow than to the students. On the student side, letters of rec are nicer when you know them in person (face to name, recognize them in class too) but less convenient to track down when and where you need to be to get a question answered vs just emailing it. Unless it’s hardcore math and sharing a whiteboard is preferred. On the professor side, randomly having to remember course information and respond all the time to questions can be disruptive to the workday, having a set time where Monday 2-4pm is class A related.

    2. HailRobonia*

      I work in academia and interact with faculty and students often. One complaint I have frequently heard is by faculty who say that students rarely take advantage of their office hours until right before a big exam, and also by students who report to me they are in danger of failing – and when I ask if they have gone to office hours for help, they said no.

      So in my advising I tell students to take advantage of the office hours – don’t wait until it’s too late. If you think you need extra help, go ask! In a couple cases there was a student in danger of failing because they struggled with the core/fundamental concepts of the class but then when they had a little 1:1 or small group interaction with the instructor, they were able to overcome that hurdle and pass the class – in once case actually thrive and get an A.

      Many people (myself included) can have trouble mastering information presented in just lecture or reading form. Having an option to meet in real time (either in person or Zoom) to go over the material is extremely beneficial.

      1. YNWA*

        but as a faculty member I don’t have time for one on one tutoring sessions. absolutely I’m there to answer questions and offer clarification but I simply don’t have time to meet and tutor in the subject area. that’s why there are tutoring centers on campus. I’m required to have four office hours a week and I usually offer up to six, plus I’m in class 12 hours a week, meetings 6-8 hours a week, grading papers is another 15-20 a week. at the max that’s already over 40 hours a week.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      I think it depends on what you teach. Most folks are communicating by email, but if you have a hands-on specialty office hours are appreciated – I’m thinking of my experience in learning horticulture and visual art where having in-person time was really helpful but I can’t say I ever visited office hours for math, English, psych, etc.

    4. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      I’ll be honest–when I was a student (first gen), for the first couple of years, I thought office hours were times that the professor had blocked off for their own work, as in, it was a time NOT to visit them. I finally had a professor tell us to see them during office hours at the beginning of class my junior year, and that’s when it clicked that office hours were actually when we were supposed to seek out our professors.

      I think this might happen more often than profs realize, at least with students who are new to academia/first generation. There’s very much a fear (for some students) of bothering the professor, and thinking email is easier because they can answer when it’s more convenient.

      1. deesse877*

        Yes, legit; it doesn’t match most people’s experience or expectations. Even when students do get it, they imagine being berated or shamed if that was what their education was like previously.

        Personally, as an undergrad, I knew what they were for in the most literal terms, but didn’t understand at all about building relationships. I only went if I was required to do so, or if I had a real problem with a grade. This led to some extremely distant and bemused grad school recommendations! And likely a 40-50% hit to my lifetime earnings. Alas.

        1. Lucy Librarian*

          I’ve heard of faculty calling them “student hours” or similar to get past the office hours confusion. I think having a few blocks set aside and a Zoom option provides the opportunity for students who don’t contact you other ways. I also know an academic dept that offers scheduled Zoom Help Desk hours, where one person provides coverage during that time.

    5. deesse877*

      We have required office hours (large regional public university) and there are some gestures towards enforcement (checking your syllabus, coming down hard if a student claims you aren’t available; once upon a time admin might actually visit your office but since 2020 that doesn’t make sense anymore). I think office hours are not useful, and indeed never were for our lower-middle- and working-class population, but I also think think the administrative heavy-handedness is an inept response to real neglect of students.

      Basically, my solution is to follow the letter of the law for office hours, but hold them on Zoom, which is more convenient and somehow less freaky for the students. I also require one-on-one meetings for courses where the assessment is a big independent project, because that’s where most people need the support, and where I want to find out early if there are problems. I mark quizzes in eerie silence most weeks.

    6. Nesta*

      Our experience with students is the same. They rarely show up without a heads up to the faculty they are seeing, so it’s more “by appointment” than office hours. Most of us just add them on before or after our class because that is when students with questions or requests are most likely to show up.

    7. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’m shocked that you can get away with this, our accrediting agency would come down hard on us if any department at our Uni didn’t have posted office hours. (In fact, it has.) Personally, I’ve never had a student come to mine, but I do know that they’re a big deal for our accreditation process (at least for our accreditor… Yours might have very different standards.)

      1. deesse877*

        Huh! No one has ever mentioned accreditation for us, but it makes sense. Thanks! Frankly, I’m much less annoyed if that is indeed the case; here it always *felt* like administrative power-tripping, but I suppose I was making an unwarranted assumption.

    8. Mutually supportive*

      I wonder whether office hours are a historic hangover from before email was so well used – you wouldn’t write a letter to your tutor and wait for them to write back, it’d be much easier to pop along and see them so it makes sense for the tutor to put some time aside for that. Now, email is probably mostly easier for both parties and if they think it’s useful to discuss in person, that can be arranged by email instead.

      1. Hyaline*

        I think this is exactly it–a relic from a time when getting ahold of your prof was harder. You needed a time when you could reliably find them. That time is now…all of the time, with email! (Yes I know some professors are awful about responding to students, but they’re also usually awful about keeping to their posted office hours if they have them, so.)

    9. kalli*

      I always found ‘office hours’ helpful because even though I preferred to email lecturers, it was a safe bet that a) their office hours would be when they’d write back and b) if we needed to see the lecturer as a group (we did a lot of group work so this was a thing, but it isn’t always), everyone could clear time without having to first go ‘when are you free, when are you free’ etc., it was ‘who’s free during office hours?’ and 2-3 people would be nominated to go.

      But if you don’t also silo your office hours for replying to students, or your courses are so online that office hours aren’t *enough*, then a different model entirely does make more sense. Like if you have to be on to post the weekly discussion question and check and assess everyone’s at least 2 meaningful comments, then having a predictable time of day when you’re online and responding, or a commitment to respond withing 48 hours, might be more valuable to your students.

    10. 2022 Graduate*

      As a student who graduated in 2022, I had a hard time with online classes bc when everything was by appointment only, it felt like I needed a reason to meet the professor when I really just wanted to try and build a connection (especially since I knew I needed letters of recommendation). Once when I tried to meet with a professor in order to go over an exam, he just had me meet with his TA instead.

      1. DTC*

        Yes! I graduated in 2023. If office hours were by appointment only, I did not go. Office hours meant I could talk to the professor without having a special reason to justify it, and meant that I could plan talking to the professor as part of my workflow e.g. “my math professor has office hours Monday at 3pm, so I’m going to attempt all the problems before then and stop by to make sure I’m on the right track” or “I know my English professor has office hours on Thursday at 11am so I’m going to make sure I start working on the paper before then so I can figure out if I have questions”.

        I will say that I was pretty unusual in how much I went to office hours in some subjects, and that i went to a four-year university where most students lived on or very near campus and where class sizes were generally small, particularly for upper-level courses. I definitely found that the smaller a class was, the more likely I was to go to office hours.

    11. municipal worker*

      In my experience, responsiveness is more important than having office hours. I think office hours are a throwback from the days when college was more of a mind-expanding luxury than an economic necessity and students were maybe working a 10 to 15 hour a week job on campus and also living on or very close to campus. But today’s reality is that lots of students are booked solid between school and work and commute and family responsibilities. They aren’t coming in person to your office hours no matter when you have them.

      1. YNWA*

        It’s also true that a lot of younger students think office hours are a time to just hang out and chat, which is not true of you have other students scheduled for your office hour. I do 15 minute appointments because in reality, that’s all most need. If they need more, I’m happy to adjust. But some students seem to think that it’s a social hour without understand that it’s still a part of our work and then they get upset when you’re “not their friend.” I’m not their friend, I’m a mentor more than anything.

        I’m frustrated because there’s this emphasis on hand holding students (why don’t you offer online tutoring for your class? why aren’t you more sensitive to every pathology that a student assigns themself without documentation?) and then I read here when everyone is complaining about their new employees or interns not being up to speed on office professional/office and it’s like: what do you expect? You expect faculty to treat everyone with kid gloves and accommodate every whimsical accommodation under the sun and then you’re mad at colleges when the graduates expect to be able to take naps on the job, wander in late, leave early, wear headphones, and be late on deadlines.

    12. Anax*

      Gosh. I’m in an academia-adjacent field right now, and office hours are super important to me; I attend at least three sessions every week. But research feels wildly different from undergraduate coursework!

      Office hours at work are basically: “Hey, subject matter experts, I ran into a strange edge case in my research. How would you recommend handling it?”

      (The advantage of live office hours is that it gets all the subject matter experts available at once, and it can also be easier to explain complex situations ‘live’.)

      When I was a college student, I always felt like asking questions was an admission of weakness, because homework is meant to be solvable. That was partially my own immaturity at the time, and partially the college culture I was in, I guess.

      I wish I knew how to square that circle, because I was definitely an undergraduate who never went to office hours, and I can see now how useful they would be.

    13. OfficeHours*

      Office hours were the only time I could guarantee I’d get the chance to talk to a professor or TA. I used them all the time. I would be annoyed if neither my professor or the TAs had office hours.

      When I was a grad student, TAs weren’t allowed to work on non-class related things so they ensured a dedicated time for grading papers/exams etc rather than allowing the TA to prioritize their own coursework or student responsibilities over their responsibilities as a TA. Most of us put in 18-20 hour days; I know some of my colleagues would have given grading short shrift if not given dedicated time they couldn’t use for other things.

  15. Passionfruit*

    I’m running a small conference and ohhh my goddd, someone high up at a major company just hijacked a session to go on a pedantic rant about terminology. Gah!! I wish the organizer had told him no, he can’t add a slide!

    1. Alfalfa Alfredo*

      I feel for ya, PassionFruit. I love it when event organizers have a strict schedule and specific learning objectives for each presentation. Presenters should NEVER go off-topic!

    2. The Prettiest Curse*

      You can brief speakers in advance, but there’s really not much you can do as an event organiser if a speaker does something like this – most speakers won’t even send their slides more than 24 hours in advance because they always want to add last-minute edits! So unless it’s something so bad that it would justify cutting off their mic, all you can do is sit there and cringe. Unfortunately, speakers really have you over a barrel because they can walk and leave a big gap in your schedule. My sympathies, and I hope the rant was over quickly!

  16. BradC*

    Looking for some resume advice for my daughter who just graduated from college: how does she make a resume for an office job when her work history is all retail?
    I’ve looked through the advice on this site and it seems that Allison discourages playing up the schoolwork/classroom focus; should we instead flesh out the “skills” section with software and stuff that seem more relevant for an office job? Or do you try to emphasize the customer-service and technical skills that might translate from her grocery-store checker job?
    All advice is welcome, thanks!

    1. Tio*

      Make sure she notes any office-type software that she can use, and brush up on it at the library if she needs to (they frequently have free classes for this). Then compare the job description to her history and pick out some specific skills that look good to that job. Customer service facing? Really hype those customer interactions. Data entry? Pull on those software skills and she can focus on her accuracy rate at checkout or something. Etc

    2. Paint N Drip*

      I would go heavy on the skills section AND a good cover letter will be a huge assist in clarifying what she learned in retail that will translate to admin plus confirming she can draft copy.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’m a hiring manager – when I’m evaluating resumes for recent graduates, the work history is not at that stage of their lives generally directly related to the job. To me it helps show if someone has experience in paid jobs, which can show a history of responsibility and dedication to whatever jobs those were. So I’d definitely have an employment section with that. If there happen to be skills from any of those jobs with direct applicability to the ones she’s applying for, sure highlight that, but don’t try to make the retail jobs into something they’re not. They’re definitely valuable experience regardless.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        Agreed — for an entry-level office job, I think college + paid work experience gets you there. I don’t think they are coming in with a ton of relevant experience, but the basic transferable skills are great. (Transferable skills like coming to work on time!)

        1. Kitten*

          Or a work history with the basics. At a grocery store you must show up on time, work hard, etc. You never know what you are getting otherwise.

    4. Shieldmaiden*

      With a retail background, she might have an easier time getting a front desk job that deals with lots of people, and when applying for something like that, I’d definitely emphasize customer service skills. But I don’t see any issue with also listing computer skills or programs that she used in school if those are relevant to the position she’s applying for – plenty of entry-level office jobs will want to know you can use MS Office or Excel and such, no matter where you previously used them.

      1. Watry*

        Your first sentence is what I had to do. I took a specific element of my call center/retail work, parlayed that into a job dealing with releasing records, and then took that and turned into a more specialized back office job.

    5. Helewise*

      This is probably somewhat dependent on the type of office job she’s applying for, but I’m reviewing resumes right now and am struggling to evaluate new grads who don’t include anything on their schooling other than a major or degree. Hard skills like competence in specific computer programs is helpful, and if there are projects or coursework that might be related to the job I’m finding that helpful, too. I really value a cover letter in situations like this too – please help me connect the dots!

    6. AnotherLibrarian*

      Customer service skills are so important at so many jobs. I love hiring folks with retail experience, because I know they can talk to humans. A good cover letter is a must here. Look at the job ads and try to match the things they ask for to skills or experience. It’s fine to use classwork, but it shouldn’t be the bulk.

    7. BradC*

      Thanks, everyone, that’s super helpful! I think you are right that a good cover letter will do a lot of the work here.

    8. spcepickle*

      I hire for entry level people all time. You can play up classwork / school work when you have no other experience, but the truth is the retail experience is way more valuable on your resume. If you survive in retail it tells me: you have good communication skills, you are timely, you can follow basic instruction, and you can deal with people being outright nasty at you (which hopefully will not happen in an office setting). Grocery checkers have to be accurate, quick, and polite. They know things like produce codes and can help people with sale info. All of these things translate into skills I want in my office staff.
      Also school based accomplishments are hard to rank if they are impressive or if everyone passed regardless of work. Grocery stores will fire you if you are bad.

      I also read cover letters but don’t really look at resumes. The cover letter is a chance for me to know why you want THIS job and what you bring. So have her tie the softskills she picked up in both school and retail into the duties listed for the office job.

    9. Csethiro Ceredin*

      We’ve hired a ton of people with just retail or similar experience for starting level office jobs.

      I agree to focus on skills. In our case customer service skills are useful so we do look for that but this will depend on the job.

      If they have taken on any responsibility, which can happen fast in retail, that’s helpful to see. (e.g. keyholder, opening/closing, balancing at end of day, bank deposits, working alone, point of call for complaints, team leader, or doing inventory). These are things that speak to reliability and responsibility, which varies wildly in environments like retail.

      We also look for people who wrote a good resume/letter/email in professional language, whose experience in school or whatever shows they can type on a computer, not just touchscreens. As others have said, any software they are familiar with is helpful, especially if they can say have used it in school or work in some clear way.

      Many of our younger employees in the last several years have been VERY anxious about routine business phone calls and that’s a part of many jobs here – some get used to it with coaching, and some remain avoidant, so we look for experience taking calls and for people who don’t talk about it as if it was a horrifying ordeal.

      1. allathian*

        Yeah, in my first retail job I was promoted to keyholder as soon as I legally could do the job, just after my 18th birthday. At the time, minors could work the cash register, but not anymore. I was even allowed to sell alcohol even though I couldn’t buy it (drinkin age 18).

        I also did inventory, accepted deliveries, faxed orders, etc. The advantage of working in a small store (2 cash registers) was that I didn’t just stack shelves or do checkouts.

    10. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Alison answered a question several years ago about making an office-job-oriented resume with Starbucks work history. Search term “starbucks” should turn it up.

    11. Veruca Salt*

      One of our best entry level hires was a young woman with retail experience. A couple of things impressed us: 1) She was certified as a Microsoft Office Specialist, which demonstrated initiative; 2) Her cover letter showed that she had studied up on our business and business sector; 3) The intentionality of her resume.

      The latter is hard to explain, but it was basic features-and-benefits marketing 101. Her resume connected the dots between how the challenges of her seemingly basic, clerical job would benefit us. In the interview, she demonstrated that she was a good listener who could synthesize information, think on her feet, and ask intelligent questions.

      Our resume review/interviewing process might be unorthodox. We’re a small business, my office managers reads all submissions, and she has her own idiosyncrasies in what she looks for.

      We weren’t aware of a Microsoft’s certification program, and thought it was fluff. After we hired her, she taught us a thing or two.

      Unfortunately, after a year and a half or so, she moved out of state for her husband’s job. She wouldn’t have stuck around much longer regardless. She was going places.

  17. Alfalfa Alfredo*

    OK. Gut check.

    Is it odd that an old boss I had from 1998-2000 viewed my profile on LinkedIn? I’ve had zero contact since 2000, don’t even work in the same industry, etc.

    Is this a normal LI think or is it weird and creepy?

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      that’s just normal. Especially if you post stuff, it will show up in other people’s feeds and then you will go “oh geez that’s a post by alfredo, they worked for me back in the 90s! I wonder where life took them” and click. Linkedin constantly tries to show me info about people in my network (automated work anniversaries etc), so you probably just showed up in their feed.

    2. Hyaline*

      Eh, I’d just assume your name popped up somewhere or was linked through some third party and he clicked through thinking “Huh, wonder how Alfafa is doing” in a moment of time-killing boredom.

    3. CTT*

      Not creepy based on just that. You probably came up in their recommended contacts and they were vaguely interested in what you were up to and moved on.

    4. Jestem*

      As an employee I’ve had a random thought about “How is XYZ person doing now?”, and this might be someone I haven’t spoken to in years. If they have a linkedin, then it’s fairly easy to check up, go “Oh cool”, and then move on again.
      Your milage may vary with this of course.

    5. Tio*

      If your linked in profile on both lists having worked for the same company, they sometimes suggest profiles, and I could definitely see myself clicking on someone and going “Oh hey what are they up to now”. Not weird at all.

    6. Irish Teacher.*

      I don’t think it’s particularly weird or creepy. But then I recently googled a boss I had in 2000-2001 because I was curious about what she is doing now. (Didn’t find her, but I did try.) So maybe I’m just weird.

    7. different seudonym*

      I wss once majorly creeped out by someone who kept checking up on me…only to realize after some years that he was launching a sales business and just working every contact as hard as humanly possible. Sorry for misunderstanding, Terry!

    8. Harlowe*

      Every now and then is normal. Someone looking you up twice a week for 3 years after you leave the company is NOT normal. (That’s why I blocked you and refused to tell you where I was going, Anne.)

    9. ecnaseener*

      It feels creepy that LinkedIn tells you this, but that’s LinkedIn’s fault. Someone who worked with you 25 years ago thought of you for some reason and took a look at your publicly-accessible work profile. Probably a ten-second look. It was not an attempt to connect, or an indication that he’s trying to find out anything private.

    10. DrSalty*

      This is normal. You’ve never seen someone you knew ages ago pop up and wondered what they were up to?

    11. kalli*

      It’s normal.

      If they messaged you and it wasn’t just ‘oh wow, it’s been so long! hope you’re well, let me know if I can still be a reference for you or anything’ then it could be creepy, but just looking at your profile is not.

    13. Ama*

      Nah this is normal — it’s also possible he encountered someone in his industry with a name similar to yours and was double checking that it wasn’t actually you. I’ve done that before — I got a work email from a person with the same first and last name as a person I knew from another career and for a moment I thought maybe the person I knew had made a major career change (the combination of the two names was not very common), but checking LinkedIn confirmed it was two different people.

    14. Rosemary*

      Not creepy. I have all kinds of people pop up in the “who you may know” including former colleagues from years past. Occasionally I click just out of curiosity.

      If you could tell that they had specifically searched for you by name – that might be a little more eyebrow raising; but even then there could be lots of non-creepy reasons for it.

    16. Elsewise*

      I agree with the folks saying it’s normal! What’s slightly less normal is my high school boyfriend looking at my linkedin profile once a year for about ten years. He seems to have stopped during covid, or at least LinkedIn isn’t telling me about it anymore, but it was very funny. (We haven’t spoken since graduation, only dated for a few months and were not in the same or even adjacent industries.)

  18. Asking for a Friend*

    Happy Friday everyone! Asking this question on behalf of my dad, who sits on the board of a small, international non-profit, and is trying to hire a Development Director to lead the US fundraising and operations. Neither of us are in the nonprofit sector, so looking for any recommendations on where to post the job listing – right now, he’s on Idealist, Chronicle of Philanthropy, and LinkedIn – any other suggestions? For context, it’s an education-focused organization based in US/Africa.

    1. Robert Smith's Hair*

      ASAE – American Society of Association Executives – perhaps? Although it literally says American, but most associations have somewhat of an international reach. Or perhaps they have some sister orgs?

    2. Nom de Plume*

      AADO African American Development Officers
      Association of Fundraising Professionals (Global, and if you want someone in a specific location, possibly also the local board for their region)
      If you want someone to be able to come into an office, the State X Nonprofits org
      I’ve been checking Indeed lately for my current job search as well, for that exact job title.

      Good luck!

    3. FashionablyEvil*

      DevEx is a common place to post international development jobs. (They have US-based roles as well as ones located abroad.)

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      AFP for sure (Association of Fundraising Professionals). CASE could be an option as well. I think CASE mostly is for educational institutions such as colleges and independent schools, but I suspect it’s not unreasonable to think that someone working at such an institution might also consider working at an educational nonprofit.

    7. Her name was Lola*

      I’m a fundraiser, and, in addition to what’s already been mentioned, I always check indeed.

    8. Ama*

      If your organization funds grants, you can also post on the job board at PEAK Grantmaking — while it’s aimed at organizations that give out grants the job does not have to be in grantmaking itself.

    9. J*

      Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP), Certified Fund Raising Executives (CFRE), Community Centric Fundraising

  19. Not Invited*

    My closest coworker, “Ashley,” is getting married this year. Since she got engaged, she has frequently shared with me the details of her wedding planning, from the decorations to the cake to the dress. She has shown me the the proofs of her engagement photos and asked me if I know of a good alterations shop. At this point, the wedding is less than a month away, and I’m pretty sure I won’t be receiving an invitation. I am aware that she is inviting at least one colleague. I’m excited for Ashley, but it stings to have her talk to me about her wedding when I’m not on the guest list. Should I say something to her next time she brings it up? If so, what’s the most tactful way to approach that conversation?

      1. WantonSeedStitch*

        Oh, no! That really puts Ashley in an awkward situation if she’s not planning on inviting Not Invited.

    2. Tio*

      I’m sorry but it really feels like you’re taking this a little too personally. Wedding conversation is a good small talk topic; I wouldn’t assume that I would be invited to a coworker’s wedding just because they talked to me about the planning. Honestly, do you normally spend a lot of time with her or do you just feel like you should be invited because someone else was and you talked about the wedding together? Were you super close before this?

      1. Not Invited*

        We’re not best friends, but we have a lot of direct contact every day and have had some fairly personal conversations (i.e., this isn’t someone I occasionally run into at the coffee machine).

        You may be right; I’m neurodivergent and tend to struggle with what’s appropriate and what’s not when it comes to interpersonal dynamics. That said, if it were my wedding, I’d be fine saying something like “I picked out my dress!” as office small talk, but not “Hey, let me show you my engagement photos! Which ones do you like best? I’m thinking this one for the save-the-dates, and this one for the invitations…”

        2. Crencestre*

          A lot of brides get so caught up in planning every. single. detail. of their “perfect wedding” that they forget that they’re the only ones likely to find all those details REALLY enthralling – everyone else is listening politely and silently wondering when they can slip away before their eyelids start to droop noticeably out of sheer boredom! But it’s fascinating to the bride, so on and on she goes about her gown, the flowers, the guests’ favors, the music, etc., etc. ad nauseum.

          This may well be what’s going on here. The couple may also have only a very limited number of seats available for each family’s friends and relatives, so they may have to keep the guest list down. Whatever the case, I’d recommend just smiling, nodding and remembering that the endless wedding talk will cease after the wedding!

        3. Irish Teacher.*

          I think it is pretty common for people to discuss their wedding in detail even with people who aren’t invited. And a lot of people really like hearing about weddings, so I guess your colleague has no idea whether you fall into that category or not.

          I had one colleague who wasn’t that into discussing her wedding in detail, more the way you would and people kept pressing her, “but what does your dress look like?”, “did you get x type of dress? You totally should have. That would look so good on you,” “do you have a photo of it? Show me! Oh, I have to see this.”

          I’ve known people do this even about the weddings of colleagues they actively dislike.

          It’s possible she has a lot of other colleagues pressing her for details so she’s just gotten into the habit of sharing them with everybody, not wanting you to feel left out.

    3. Not A Manager*

      No, you shouldn’t. I’m sorry you’re not invited, but I think you’d feel worse if you maneuvered her into giving you a grudging invite.

      What stings, anyway? That the party sounds so amazing that you hate to miss it? That she maybe feels closer to someone else in the office than to you? Do you feel used because she’s “taking” time and attention from you that feels acceptable if she’s your close friend but otherwise not?

      I think the answer to this might help you re-frame the situation in your own mind. Sometimes people really like us in one context/setting but for whatever reason that doesn’t translate to a different one. If you feel that she’s taking advantage of your attention, give her the amount of attention that feels good to you, without making it into some kind of passive aggressive tit-for-tat.

    4. Hyaline*

      I would let it go. Is she being a little tacky talking about her wedding with people she has not invited? Maybe. Is it a little iffy to invite some people from work but not all? Obviously it can cause some hurt feelings. But guest list limits are a thing, weddings are note easy to plan or cheap, and it seems shortsighted to make a Thing out of it when it’s going to be in the rearview in a couple months.

      Now, if Ashley frequently dominates the conversation with her personal life in ways that make you feel excluded, I would just start distancing myself from Ashley–but no “conversation” is needed there.

      1. Rainy*

        Weddings aren’t like parties in the sense that there just isn’t the same expectation that you shouldn’t talk about them with people who aren’t invited. Everybody knows about a wedding. You’re taking time off for it, if you don’t have scads of money you’re planning it yourself, plus it marks a change in literal legal status for the people involved.

    5. Magpie*

      You should absolutely not say anything to her. Wedding guest lists are always tough. There’s usually a limit to the number of people who can be invited due to venue capacity or money so couples have to make tough choices about who they can invite. It doesn’t necessarily say anything about how they feel about the people who aren’t invited, it just means that for one reason or another they had to prioritize inviting other people. If you ask her about it, it’s only going to create weirdness between you.

    6. WantonSeedStitch*

      I wouldn’t say something, but you also don’t have to gush, and can change the subject. You can be like “oh yeah, those centerpieces sound pretty! I love lilies, but they’re super toxic to cats, so I don’t ever bring them into my house. I do have a spider plant, and Fluffy loves to attack it, but it won’t hurt her as much as she hurts it!”

    7. Irish Teacher.*

      I’d let it go. I had a number of colleagues discussing wedding stuff with me back in 2020ish. Most of these weddings ended up having very restricted guestlists, so I have no idea if I’d have been invited or not had they been able to invite colleagues. Maybe, maybe not, but I wouldn’t have been offended if I hadn’t been. The issue of who to invite at work does get quite tricky as regards where do you draw the line.

      I also remember one particular colleague inviting the oddest assortment of colleagues to her wedding. She obviously invited the people she was closest to, but she also invited a couple of people I never saw her even speak to in the couple of years we worked together and didn’t invite others that she worked more closely with. Again, I wasn’t hurt about not being invited because I doubt it was personal. (I would have worked more closely with her than a couple of those she invited and we were friendlyish, but I wasn’t one of the people she was especially close to.) I have no idea what reasons she had for who she invited and didn’t but I am sure she had good reasons.

      I definitely wouldn’t bring the issue up.

      1. Clisby*

        Agree. Plus, I can’t imagine being upset I wasn’t invited to a wedding unless maybe if it was one of my siblings. Weddings are just not that alluring.

    8. Not Invited*

      I appreciate all the replies. It looks like the consensus is “don’t say anything,” and that’s fair. I’m coming at this as someone who’s hyper-sensitive to situations that might potentially make someone feel excluded (because I’ve been excluded from a lot), but I recognize that that’s something I need to work through, and I can’t expect others to take the same perspective. Thanks, all.

      1. Hyaline*

        FWIW, it’s fair to feel hurt that there is an event in someone’s life that you’re not being invited to participate in! That’s a valid feeling! It’s just very unavoidable, especially when it comes to weddings and work, and it’s not IMO worth bringing up with Ashley.

        And FWIW people have to make their guest lists based on where they are when they plan the wedding. Some folks set a guest list really early. Many people look back at their weddings and say “if I’d known then what I know now, I wouldn’t have invited some people, and I would have invited others.” Not “making the cut” on the guest list is NOT a permanent marker of your friendship with someone–if you enjoy Ashley’s company, just muscle through the wedding talk for a couple more months and then hopefully the rapport will be back on even ground.

      2. Whatsina Name*

        I agree with everyone who says to just let this go. But really, Ashley is really out of line here. She shouldn’t be discussing the wedding to someone she isn’t planning to invite-it’s incredibly tone-deaf on Ashley’s part.
        She should have learned this in elementary school – you don’t talk about your party with anyone you don’t plan to invite. And you also don’t talk about it in front of people you’re not inviting. That’s just basic good manners.

      3. allathian*

        I get what you’re saying, I was bullied by exclusion in junior high and it’s only now that I’m in my early 50s that I’ve truly got over it.

        This wasn’t a coworker, but someone who hung out in my friend group at college, let’s call her Lisa. All the others in that group were taking the same major and had a lot of courses together, two of those people were my friends from high school and that’s why I they invited me into the group. But when Lisa graduated and got married, she invited my high school friends but not me, and it really stung that she didn’t consider me as close a friend as I’d considered her. It stung so much that I didn’t even send the happy couple a card to congratulate them on their marriage, never mind a present. Maybe if I had, we might’ve become closer friends, but it was all so long ago that it no longer matters. I still see her when that friend group gets together (all of us stayed in the same metropolitan area), and we get along well enough when we’re the first to arrive somewhere and I don’t think there’s any awkwardness between us in a group setting, but I don’t get invited to things she hosts in her home and I don’t invite her to things I host, and at this point it’s not something I even want to change.

        About 10 years ago a coworker, let’s call her Anne, got married. Another coworker, Jenny, was not just her work friend, but her friend-friend, to the point that they were in each other’s wedding parties. When the planning for Anne’s wedding was going on, it really dominated any non-work conversation that Anne and Jenny were a part of, to the point that some of us started to get sick of it and pointedly changed the subject whenever they started talking about it during our coffee breaks. They wisely decided to go to lunch together when it was at its most intense.

        I guess I was one of the quickest to change the subject because Anne asked me once if I was jealous because I wasn’t invited. At the time, being excluded was still a sore point for me, but at that point I just said something like “Nah, I don’t enjoy weddings much at the best of times so I’m just as happy to sit one out unless it’s for a close friend or family member. I just wish the day would arrive already so all the wedding talk would finally stop.” We were peers but not work friends, never mind friend-friends, and this didn’t affect our professional relationship in any way. The wedding talk stopped at work, at least in my hearing. I contributed a small sum, something like 5 euros, to the wedding present from the team, and I signed the card and wished the couple well.

        You’ve managed to fake enthusiasm so far, a few months at least? Maybe you can continue to do that if you really value her friendship. OTOH, if she’s as close a work friend as it sounds like, it would be odd of her to take it amiss if you say something like “At this point, I’m just looking forward to the wedding photos” if she brings up some detail she’s getting worried about with you.

    9. Can't remember my username*

      It’s really normal not to invite everyone you might like to. This sounds like really normal behaviour.
      I never take offence at not being invited to someone’s wedding, because guest lists are such a nightmare, they are fraught with difficulties.
      It’s a month away, it’s not that long. I’d roll with it just say “I’m so looking forward to seeing the photos”.
      I wouldn’t worry about a month in the context of your relationship with your co-worker.
      If you really can’t live with it, just be super busy for the next four weeks.

      1. Can't remember my username*

        There were almost no comments when I started writing!
        In case it helps, I have dear friends I couldn’t fit into my wedding, there are people who were invited that we’re no longer close to, and vice versa.
        This isn’t likely to be a snub.
        Weddings are unlike most other social events. Because in most other circumstances you wouldn’t be talking lots about something to someone who wasn’t invited.
        But weddings are weird.
        Having seen some of your replies I can see why it stings, but it almost certainly isn’t personal – if it was, she wouldn’t be asking your opinion, and excitedly telling you about things.

    10. Indolent Libertine*

      I agree that it’s not reasonable to expect that someone getting married would invite all of their coworkers, and I am An Old so I do understand that a lot of people don’t see things the same way I do, but I was taught that it was super rude and tacky to discuss a party etc. with someone you weren’t inviting. I’d feel the same way, Not Invited.

      2. TheBunny*

        Yes. But the fact that it’s a work conversation alters tops dynamic a bit.

        It’s normal to chat about things in your personal life that excite you with coworkers.

        Talking about weekend plans doesn’t mean you invite them, etc. I get that it feels a little hurtful but I don’t think anything is meant by it.

    11. Generic Name*

      Not quite the same situation, but I used to share an office with a coworker I thought I was close work friends with. We were dating at the same time. Shared lots of tales of triumph and woe both at work and in our off hours. When she got married, she invited the “in group” from work she was friends with, bit not me. Yeah, it hurt. But on some level I’m glad I know how she really feels about me. When she left the company, I deleted her info from my phone and I haven’t spoken with her since. Her loss. I have actual friends who are amazing people.

    12. AlternatePerspective*

      Personally I think this is weird. If we’re close enough that she wants to repeatedly discuss this with me at work I’d expect an invitation. I would be upset not to get one.

  20. BRR*

    Any tips/advice for hanging in their mentally at your current job while hunting for a new one? My situation is we got a new VP and had an org chart restructuring. I’m now reporting to an awful manager (disorganized, micromanager, thankfully not mean) and while my pay is the same, it’s essentially a demotion in terms of responsibility because I lost all oversight of my area. I also get the feeling the new VP thinks I’m a mediocre employee and I’ve been unable to change his mind on that.

    I approached our VP this week laying out the issues with my current manager and asked if I could report to somebody else. The VP said no but he was going to talk to my manager about a few things because several people have had issues with her lately (I knew this and was hoping it would work to my advantage).

    I’m looking for a new job but it’s going to take some time and my morale is depleted. I could make do if I was left alone but that’s not possible with my control freak of a manager.

    1. Robert Smith's Hair*

      Oh my goodness. I’m so sorry. I don’t have great advice other than to show up and do what you can each day to provide the bare minimum at the current job. And to have really good outlets with friends, family, therapy. Cheering for you.

    2. Nom de Plume*

      I’m having a very similar issue with motivation. The best thing I’ve been able to do is give myself grace for getting what I can done. Then, applying for other jobs gives me a little serotonin boost. I’m sorry that isn’t more helpful!

    3. NotBatman*

      How I dealt with a similar situation: sending emails to my sister with “you’ll never believe what ridiculous thing I had to do today!” and adopting a joking tone about it.

      It wasn’t actually funny, at all, that my HR rep was a 20-year-old intern who didn’t know how to use email, or that I was doing 2+ jobs because my coworker was forcing our manager to assign me all of his work. But I managed to get through it by going “oooh boy, wait’ll Sis gets a load of this one!” every time a new form of bullshit cropped up. By reframing it as farce, I was able to force myself to laugh about it until I could get out and give myself room to cry.

  21. sha la la*

    I recently transitioned into a new department at my organization. I’m quite young for the role and it is a bit of step-up for me, with a steep learning curve, but our small team has been great. My problem is my predecessor. I’ve worked with him before and though I like him personally, I’ve always known/heard that he’s a little micromanage-y and stubborn. He’s now been promoted significantly within the organization (to the executive level far above me and above my supervisor). A petty, but not insignificant, bit of context is that my supervisor didn’t like much of his work, particularly how these projects went previously (to quote her they “limped along for years”) and that I’ve been brought in to improve a lot of our processes, etc.

    My problem is that he will not let go of two of my projects. He avoided telling one external partner about his departure for weeks, waiting until the night before we had a big stakeholder meeting because he was worried that she would “freak out”, while also telling me explicitly to not reach out to her. My coworker speculated that he hadn’t been fully direct or honest about his role with this partner because he has continued to email her about these projects without our knowledge. It took him weeks to transfer his electronic files to me. He has not made an announcement to clients about the transition, meaning that many of them still communicate with him and he is responding to them without telling them that he is no longer in charge. He also continues to make decisions about client relationships, without including me. I also feel like he is quick to jump on any mistake that I make–for example, apologizing profusely to a client who was left off of a listserv…something that is neither a big deal nor a hard fix. Meanwhile, I’ve had to make a series of big decisions quickly while feeling like I’m not operating with a lot of complete information. My supervisor has been a good advocate and has talked to him three times about including me on communications and that has improved somewhat. However, in the past few days, he now sends me nagging emails asking to read client communications that have already been sent out, asking if I need help with a report, telling me I need to schedule biweekly meetings with our partners (I already had), and asking to be mentioned in client communications (including the subject line of one email announcing our quarterly plans).

    He’s driving me nuts! He has said that he’s trying to help be successful, but at this point, it feels like undermining. I want to be able to go to him for guidance and context about these projects, but his attitude is signaling such a lack of confidence in my work that it’s discouraging me.

    Is there any other strategies to mitigate this micromanaging? Thanks in advance!

    1. Synaptically Unique*

      I feel for you. I had an employee doing something along these lines to a new hire after a substantive role change, but I was in a position to enforce boundaries. I had to have more than one conversation to get it to stop, and I had to be very blunt about what was and wasn’t within purview of the new role. Not sure any of that translates well when the meddler is from several steps up the ladder.

    2. WellRed*

      I see it more as he’s having trouble letting go, rather than a lack of confidence in you (probably a bit of both). I know he’s up the ladder from you but can you ignore or slow respond to any of this?

    3. Ama*

      Honestly, your supervisor needs to be escalating this to her boss to tell her that this guy is not cooperating with the handover. I’ve seen this kind of transition problem before and the only way to stop it is for someone whose authority the problem person respects to tell them something along the lines of “by X date sha la la should have everything from you she needs to take over these projects and you should not be communicating with clients on those projects at all unless sha la la requests assistance.”

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        And to HIS boss, if he doesn’t knock it off. Besides being not his purview anymore, how much of his new, actual job is not doing while interfering with yours, LW?

    4. Bummer Friday*

      UGH. Sounds like someone needs to go to his boss about what his/your duties are. Maybe your supervisor needs to go up her chain until she gets to someone who can talk to his boss (I can’t figure out if he is still in your chain of command or just higher in the org at his new position, so this may/may not help). Start her out with a list of examples of what he’s doing and how that affects your work/the clients. Do you have to follow his instructions? How much autonomy do you have (can you notify clients yourself?) It doesn’t sound like he doesn’t have confidence in you; for some reason he just wants to hang on. There’s a reason you were given this role!

  22. Robert Smith's Hair*

    Two colleagues I’ve worked with for 7 and 5 years with respectively are leaving over the next couple of months. One I work with very closely and the other more tangentially but they are both peer colleagues in that I can talk to them about things at a very different level. I am taking this news HARD. I am of course happy for them, but selfishly, I’m super bummed.

    Any advice for me besides stop being a baby? Thank you!

    1. Victoria, Please*

      Goodness, it’s okay to feel bummed! You’ll get over it quickly, don’t worry, but meantime I’m sure your colleagues would be warmed to know that you will miss them. You’re not being a baby by thinking you’ll miss these good people.

    2. Corvus Corvidae*

      It’s okay to let yourself feel bummed! I would put my energy into being outwardly happy for them at work, but other than that take time to be kind to yourself and allow yourself time to process this. You’ve worked with these people for years, being upset that they’re leaving doesn’t make you a baby.

    3. FashionablyEvil*

      Ooh, I went through this. Two of my work BFFs/trusted confidants both left within a matter of months and I felt sad and adrift for a while. It’s not a type of loss that’s often discussed, but it’s okay to grieve the loss of support and friendship, even in a work context. Eventually, I built new relationships that replaced those ones, but it did take time.

    4. Nesta*

      Let yourself feel bummed and grieve. It sounds silly because I wasn’t prepared for that to be something I needed, but a colleague of mine for many years recently retired. We worked together every day and talked a lot. It was hard to be there without her for about the first year. Things would not be going smoothly and I would think, “Well if Jane was here this would be better.” Sometimes, I even shed some private tears over how much things had changed and missing the old days.

      And I just told myself this was okay and normal. It is normal not to be excited about change and it is normal to feel sad about a change you don’t like. It isn’t being a baby to let yourself have that.

      What also helped me was just focusing on the work I needed to do. I’ve tried to help my new colleague and pass on some of the wise advice that I received. I try to step into those shoes when I can. But I’ve also just put my head down and tried to focus on doing the best job I can. Maybe that’s a sad answer, but I feel like not trying to remake the past dynamic has helped me. Work isn’t the same, but in some ways it is better; I don’t get riled up in the way I once did about things without my coworker there to vent to, for example.

      1. Robert Smith's Hair*

        I love this comment so much and from Nesta herself! …thank you. Thank you, everyone.

    5. goddessoftransitory*

      Privately? Be as big a baby as you like! Wail, throw things, sob “it’s not fair!” Because that’s how you feel, right? Just acknowledge that and know you feel bad.

      Now of course you aren’t going to do this TO them, or where anybody can see you. You aren’t blaming them or trying to sabotage them or anything of the kind. But no good ever came of trying to pretend you aren’t hurt when you are. It just prolongs the damage.

  23. WereFerret*

    I’m sorting through a work situation that could be about ten posts on it’s own, but the upshot is: I am very likely leaving not only my workplace, but also my field, where I’ve worked for over a decade. The organization I work for is small and there are a lot of feelings involved in the professional relationships. My questions for everyone here are:

    -If you’ve ever resigned or otherwise left a role where there was a lot of emotional attachment between people involved, what helped minimize that fallout?
    -My workplace is moving towards a merger with another organization. It won’t be until at least next year, but the process is in motion. The merger was decided on with the assumption that all current staff at my org would be continuing. I could really use some reassurance that I’m not a completely bad person for deciding I need to leave.

    1. Robert Smith's Hair*

      Not a bad person. I was just lamenting how hard I’m taking a couple of departures at work, but here’s the thing – it’s work. They aren’t leaving ME. They are making the right choices for themselves and ultimately, that is always okay. You are good.

    2. Jay (no, the other one)*

      You are not a bad person for doing what’s right for you. I did exactly the same thing for much of the same reason although I retired rather than changing jobs. When you say “minimize the fallout” what do you mean? You have no control over how other people feel. I know people were upset I was leaving and some of them told me that directly. I chose to take that as a compliment and did not feel obligated to make them feel better. When I look back, I know I behaved professionally – gave plenty of notice, was available to help with the transition to my successor (which the org did not take advantage of because they were so slow to hire someone) and did not trash-talk my utterly incompetent and sexist boss on the way out the door.

      tl;dr: you’re doing the right thing for yourself. Do it in a way you can live with afterwards and you’ll be fine.

      1. WereFerret*

        “minimizing fallout” does indeed refer to other people’s emotions (which I know I can’t control, but feeling like I have to is a) part of why I’m leaving and b)something to work on in therapy). I think the other part of it is minimizing fallout internally? Leaving means separating from something I put a lot of time and energy into and made a big part of how I saw myself. I guess I’m afraid of that playing badly with other people’s emotional reactions to it and somehow making me chicken out.

        1. Jay (no, the other one)*

          Therapy FTW. Would never have had the guts to retire without that (and 12-step work, which of course is not necessary for everyone). The identity issue is also very real and was real for me. My first post-retirement very part-time job disappeared and I spent a lot of time trying to sort out why it felt so important to me to find another one. I thought it was fear of losing my professional identity. Eventually I realized it was more about losing my identity as breadwinner and that lead to a cascade of insight into how I see myself in my marriage. I did indeed find another part-time gig which is perfect for me in this season of my life and I also feel much better about my marriage. I do so much better when I take the time to wonder *why* I feel I have to do something. Even if I still do the thing, I always feel better about it.

    3. I strive to Excel*

      I can’t speak to 1, but I can speak to 2.

      You are not a bad person for leaving. Life happens. If the merger was done assuming you specifically would be staying, they should have had you sign a contract to that effect. That’s what vested shares and other compensation are for. If they didn’t and just assumed you would stay, well, that’s bad management on their part. The bus principal comes into play here as well: if your merger is going to fail because one employee is put out of commission, then it’s been badly designed.

    4. Laggy Lu*

      I think leaving before the transition is actually better! Now they get the chance to rebalance work if needed, or maybe there is an additional skill set they can seek out. I would look at that part as a positive.

      1. WereFerret*

        Thinking this can help them seek an additional skillset/skillset better suited to the new org is a really helpful re-frame, thank you!

    5. kalli*

      You need to prioritise your mental health and that includes leaving if you need to. Disentangling work from feelings can be part of that.

      I had to leave my field due to illness and a severe incompatibility with my direct supervisor (which caused said illness) and I wasn’t able to replace it with another job, and my direct supervisor was part of that, so I wasn’t very good at minimising the fallout. But once I wasn’t looking in the field and could cut everyone off entirely, and wasn’t getting a running commentary of ‘so now they’ve decided not to edit her invoices because nobody can read her handwriting and we don’t have the time’ and ‘we had to hire two people to replace you because nobody else would work with her’ and ‘the person who replaced you left because she couldn’t take it’ and so on, perhaps there was still fallout, but it was far away from me and therefore didn’t matter. I have one friend left from those days and we reconnected for a bit checking up on each other during COVID, but reconnecting made me realise that cutting it off entirely was emotionally better for me because he would still go ‘remember when’ and ‘so do you remember Michael? well he left, but…’ and it wasn’t healthy for me. Choose the emotional attachments you want to keep and actively transition them to not-work, and replace the others with a hobby or new people so the gap isn’t as gaping.

      Also, things happen during mergers and they rarely work out as originally planned. It is normal for people to leave, lives to proceed, things to happen, and you needing to leave is not any kind of bad, you’re fine.

    6. whimbrel*

      Hey, as someone who is looking at a very similar kind of merger in a couple of years, I feel you. My office is relatively small and quite close-knit, and in my section we’ve worked together for years. Management is hoping/expecting that everyone affected will be moving; that is very likely not to be the case.

      All I can say is that you have to do what is best for you, and anyone who criticizes you for it isn’t the one who’s going to be paying your bills, so they don’t get a say. And as long as you aren’t like ‘See ya later, losers!’ on the way out, you should be fine.

    7. 1 Non Blonde*

      For the second part of your question: if they left you behind in the merger, would THEY care? No. This is business, it’s not personal. Do what you need to do for you. Because businesses do the same.

      This is completely unhelpful to your first question, but no matter how bonded you are to a group of work friends, you will ALL move on once you are no longer coworkers. Despite talking to them daily, once you leave, the texts and phone calls will become less frequent. You will remember them fondly, and hopefully them for you. The best you can do is try, and hope a friendship outside of work is possible, but know that if that doesn’t happen, it’s not you or them. It’s just what happens.

      1. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

        After my company merged, most of the people in my role were shifed to an adjacent job, that I had worked in 20 years earlier. I negotiated a promotion for added responsibilities, but once I started doing it I realized that it was frustrating and I liked my old job so much better. But management had all shifted, too, and I didn’t want to go back. So that was when I decided I should go ahead and retire (at 62). After almost 2 years, I’m doing okay, but often can’t think of a reason not to spend the entire day in my PJs. The link in an earlier thread about transcribing handwritten documents for the Library of Congress has me a bit intrigued. That may be something that will draw my attention away from watching political news and playing computer games all day long. Time will tell.

    8. MissGirl*

      A couple of things. Is this the first time you’ve left a long term job? I’ve noticed it’s easier to mentally separate after the first time.

      When I left my first career job after ten years, it was extremely difficult. In fact, I stayed years too long to avoid that discomfort. I just went back seven years later to celebrate my old boss’s 50 YEAR anniversary. That’s how long people stay. I talked to my old coworker who shared a lot of my work and she’s still doing the same thing that I was. I miss the people but by golly I would’ve gone mad.

      I also had a cool job (on paper) that was easy to explain to people and gave me a sense of identity. Now I make $120k MORE a year. I have a less stressful job and I make more. I have an identity outside of work.

      Also, dude, there’s a merger coming at your job. You will NOT be the only one leaving or looking to. Just know you’re going to have strong feelings but you’ll work through them. You’re going to have a struggle to adjust at a new job but you’ll adjust.

      1. WereFerret*

        You’re dead on; this is the longest I’ve ever worked anywhere, and was in many ways my first “grown-up” job.

        I’m not entirely sure others will be leaving; we’re a staff of four, the rest is done by volunteers and contractors, but even so, I suspect you’re right that I’m not the only one currently evaluating if I’ll stay on.

  24. fidget spinner*

    Any good stories about people showing up dressed up to work for the first time and then a week later they give their notice? Or the like? I think it’s brilliant. I also think that in 20 years time interview attire will look different than it does now in most industries

    1. HSE Compliance*

      Recently, I had someone I had worked with catch me at a *McDonalds* coming out of the bathroom in much dressier clothes than I had been at work in the morning in. I gave my notice about 3 weeks later.

      I pretended I didn’t see them. It was like 2 in the afternoon, I needed a spot to change, of all the times for them to waltz into the back area of that McDonalds!

      1. fidget spinner*

        Too funny! Apparently nothing is fool proof, that should have been a great plan… alas.

      2. callmeheavenly*

        I changed into my interview suit once in a convenience store restroom but was able to go home after the interview rather than back to work. Since I didn’t have to change back into work clothes, it took several days to realize that I had left the business casual pants behind. I opted not to ask if they had a lost and found.

    2. Synaptically Unique*

      My husband does this sometimes just to mess with his coworkers (most of whom he dislikes). He’ll also make sure he leaves for lunch on those days.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      I used to come in dressed up when I felt like my manager was taking me for granted. Worked like a charm. But generally had to do it every few months just to keep him on his toes.
      Heh

    4. ThursdaysGeek*

      I had a co-worker who would dress up nearly once a week, just so no-one would know if and when he was interviewing. It seemed like a good strategy.

    5. froodle*

      I had just finished up an interview, suited and booted, and was leaving their office, shaking hands with the manager on the doorstep as we said goodbye.

      Directly across the road was another office building, and I saw a co-worker walking out, very smartly dressed, and giving her farewells to a lady in a smartly tailored outfit who seemed very pleased to have met her.

      Our eyes met, and we both looked away, then took opposite routes back to our current (trashfire) workplace and never spoke of it. She was gone six weeks later. I was gone three weeks after that.

    6. Ginger Cat Lady*

      My daughter had been asking for a raise for quite a while, with no luck. They always said they’d “think about it” and then seemed to forget. So a couple years ago when she asked for the 4th or 5 time and they said they would think about it once again, I suggested that she wear extra nice clothes to work the day she had a dentist appointment next week and not use the word “dentist” and just say she had “an appointment”
      She actually got the raise that time.
      And has done something similar at least twice since then. “Accidentally” left her computer open to LinkedIn job listings when she went for lunch the day after another “we’ll think about it” promise, etc.

  25. Aye Nonny Nonny*

    I’m now on week 3 of working for an outsource company with my former employer as the client. It’s okay but I don’t feel secure as we’re training our offshore team will likely replace us.

    This was an involuntary transfer where we had to “rebadge” to the outsource company (major international consulting firm starting with “A”). Declining would be consider a resignation without severance or unemployment. How should I reflect this on my resume and cover letters? I don’t want to sound bitter but also don’t want to look like I’m bailing on a brand new job.

    1. Cheap ass rolling with it*

      On your resume, can you combine original employer with outsource company as one job?

      Original Employer 2019-2024
      Outsource Company (internal transfer) 2024-present

      And then put all your major accomplishments under that one job

    2. FashionablyEvil*

      Assuming the role is basically the same, I would list it under the same job/responsibilities. Like, “Systems Analyst, Company 1 and as as Subcontractor to Company 1 with Consulting Company.”

  26. Potential retirement anon*

    Hi AAM brain trust – I’m wondering if any of you have experiences to help organize my thoughts with my future planning. I’m in a fortunate position to be able to consider early retirement due to a family inheritance, and will be meeting with financial planners to help understand my options better.

    I’m in a passion-driven field, and have been for over 35 years. Definitely ‘dream job’ type stuff. But this type of field also means that the highs are really high, and the lows are really low – it definitely affects your emotions. And I’m a long-term manager, and the stresses of that and feeling the emotional burdens of several levels of employees on me as well are very taxing.

    I know if I decide to step away that at my age I’m done in this field forever. I think I’m good with that, and can fill some of the passion-driven void with volunteering in related places. So has anyone taken a plunge like this – leaving a lifelong career that many would covet?

    I’ve had suggestions to try to take a leave of absence or something to decompress, and I might (or might not) be able to get something like that approved, but know that doing so would just pile work on my managers as there are no ‘temp’ options for my type of role – and I wouldn’t do that to them. So if I step away it’s for good.

    If any of you have experiences, or thoughts that might help as I continue to mull all this over, I look forward to hearing about them. Thanks.

      1. Laggy Lu*

        Same! I think adding in some volunteering, or maybe part time work in a similar vein would scratch the itch just fine.

        1. Potential retirement anon*

          Thanks! I have volunteered in my area of interest in the past but with the challenges of fitting it around work it became as much of a burden as a joy so I’ve backed off. So I definitely think jumping back into it would be great.

      2. RVA Cat*

        This, plus 35 years in the field makes it not-so-early retirement.

        That said, there being “no temp options” makes me wonder if there’s opportunities to fill that void as a consultant?

        1. Potential retirement anon*

          Interesting thought. I’ve informally consulted throughout my career, for free, because I really enjoy it and in my field doing so helps benefit others which is the whole reason I do it in the first place. So whether it be for slight financial help, or as a volunteer, I do have the potential for some consulting more directly in my field in addition to the more tangentially related volunteering I mentioned. Thanks for planting the idea.

      3. Potential retirement anon*

        I didn’t feel that way earlier in my career, but now that I’m older and maybe tireder (if that’s a word), I’m with you :) Thanks

      4. Alex*

        Same. I can’t say I’ve been in your shoes but I sure wish I was!

        I don’t even hate my job or anything, but the idea of my time being ALL MINE is glorious.

    2. Jay (no, the other one)*

      What’s your concern? Serious question. And how early is early? If you’ve been working for 35 years I figure you have to be at least in your mid-50s and maybe older. So “early” in the context of US norms, and not the same as retiring at 35. And does what other people think bug you? Also a serious question – the comment about “that others would covet” stuck out to me.

      I retired at 61 after a career in medicine and my husband retired at 57 after a career in science education and museum work. We’re both now 64. Both of us absolutely loved our work and many of our colleagues and friends might have coveted our jobs. We both knew that they didn’t see how the sausage was made and that leaving when we did was right for us.

      Hubs continued to consult after leaving, initially about 25% time and lately maybe 10% time. He thought he’d try to build his consulting practice. Then he took a glassblowing class and realized, as he says, that he’s really an artist interested in science, not a scientist interested in art. He is happier than I’ve seen him. One of his other hobbies is gardening. Our yard looks amazing.

      I really wanted to travel. Some big trips (Croatia, Italy, Iceland, New Zealand) and a lot of shorter trips to visit people or do things that appeal to me. We live on the east coast of the US. Hey! There’s a museum exhibit in Boston I want to see! My favorite blues artist is performing in DC! There’s a hobby meetup in NYC! I can do all those things now. I did find part-time work in my field to help pay for all the travel, which I realize isn’t an option for you.

      I also knew going in that I absolutely did not want to volunteer. Been there, done that, have the burnout souvenirs. It’s as valuable to know what you *don’t* want to do as what you want to do.

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        Meant to add: what people actually covet is retirement, and they say so in a way that leaves me stumbling around for an answer. “Must be nice.” Yes, it is, and no, it’s not fair, and yes, I did inherit money that made it possible (which I usually don’t share). That’s been the most uncomfortable part of the whole thing.

        1. Potential retirement anon*

          For the record I’m 59, and have been in my career field (although at different jobs/facilities within it throughout the country) for 37 years, since graduating college.

          The concern, I guess, is when I hear people say things like how much I’d miss it if I left, how could I leave this field when it’s one that people fight to get into, and stuff like that. For me, right now, I feel that the only thing that would stop me from retiring early would be financial (especially health insurance, since in the US so currently tied to my job and at under 65 much more expensive to get good insurance on my own). I have my first financial planner consult in a few days to start understanding my options, will do at least three to get different viewpoints since it’s such a big decision.

          Even a couple of years ago I couldn’t have imagined wanting to leave this field, but I think some life stuff has changed things for me in the past few years. Starting with the pandemic (we were essential, work stress increased greatly at that time and has never really receded to pre-pandemic levels so our new normal is more stressful than before) and then with family stuff. The inheritance made the possibility of retiring early more than a pipe dream, and I’ve spent the past year since receiving it trying to take time to really see how I feel and what I want to do.

          I’m just so burned out that the thought of getting to take a year or so to just do nothing that I don’t want to do sounds so incredibly appealing. And the feeling isn’t dissipating. Even if I do need to work again in the future, I think I’m totally OK with it being just a ‘job’ not ‘career’.

          I know it sounds like I’m answering my own question, but guess these various case studies of others who have retired early and how it worked for them are helpful. It’s a bell I can’t unring, so trying to be thoughtful about such a big step and trying to see if others might help me look at it from a perspective I’m not seeing before taking such a big life step.

          Thanks to all who have given responses, I really appreciate and value each one.

          1. Wolf*

            > how could I leave this field when it’s one that people fight to get into

            I’d argue that makes it easier to leave – knowing there’s a new generation waiting to take over, full of energy and excited to work in that field.

      2. Slightly Less Evil Bunny*

        Jay (no, the other one) – you sound like my secret life goals twin! Yes to travel, and I dig your country list!

        I’m also in a position to retire earlier than originally planned, though I’m still planning to hang in there for another year or two. And yes, it’s largely due to an inheritance that such a thing is possible for me.

        I’m in a job that’s challenging and enjoyable, and I want to continue building up my skills – hence the sticking it out for a while yet. But, I’m also aware that I’ve put certain needs, wants, and interests on the back burner. And it really doesn’t make sense to keep putting things off “until I retire”.

        Generally, none of us know how long we’ve got. Losing my remaining parent really hit me like a slap in the face. There are other things besides work that I want to do, and I want to do them while I’m still able to.

        1. Potential retirement anon*

          My inheritance came due to losing my remaining parent, and it is indeed a slap in the face. I’ve seen family members who earned and enjoyed their retirement, and those that worked so hard and never made it that far.

          I’ve been successful in my career, and feel like I’ve been very good at my job(s) over the years, but just lack the motivation to continue wanting to grow and build up new skills. I’ve helped build the next generation to do that, and think I’m pretty cool with laying down that mantle myself.

          I think two family losses in two months on top of other stuff has been my tipping point. I have other family that needs help and want to be able to do that too, with more free time to not burn out myself more trying to do so.

          Again thanks to all for their views, now we see what the financial folks say about my finances and the various costs/benefits of different options. First meeting is Monday and I’m pretty excited to have finally taken the initiative to get it scheduled after talking about it for months.

    3. pumpin spice convertee*

      It’s awesome and insightful for you to think about future planning now. Considering you’ve got the inheritance and retirement to consider, investigate your opportunities (which you’re starting to do) and investigate your assumptions along the way as you consider calculated risks / what you want / can handle. Re: another comment: Do you want something concrete lined up ahead of time for your next chapter? What would stress you out and not be worth it? Would you do well leaving the structure of the company for good, or would you do well having that pre-determined dream-structure to return to after decompressing? Even if others covet it, what are the pros and cons for you to stay or leave? How could the managers covering your job help you rather than it being all bad? (I.e. turning over the stones that you can.) Maybe if you have cause for concern about coverage during a leave, it would be worth addressing a few objective worries, so you can be assured its okay to take leave and that you’re not “doing” it to them.

      If your employer is on board with a leave, you could actually take this trial period to try things out while keeping your toes in the industry, if you’re not sure. Maybe you could set a timeline if you do want to stay.

      I think it’s good that you would volunteer in related places if you want to do something structured in retirement. And good that you will be meeting with a financial planner, which may offer some clarity too.

      1. Potential retirement anon*

        Thanks for your thoughts. As far as having something concrete lined up, my initial plan would be nothing – very intentionally. I think having a period of time with no specific demands on me, where I can do as much or as little as I want, is something I really desire right now. I think I’d get to wanting more structure or concrete at some point, but not for a while.

        Right now the biggest stresses are financial, which I’m investigating; insurance, which relates to but is not entirely financial; and probably the social component of work. I am a work extrovert/social introvert – which sounds contradictory but really isn’t. My persona at work and outside it is very different. I’m also a homebody, so can see at some point I’ll probably need to kick myself in the butt to establish new social ties so I don’t just burrow into my house with my critters.

        For a few reasons I just don’t think a leave at work is feasible – I don’t want to dump workload on others (if I leave, they re-hire my position; if I’m on leave the workload falls onto others who already have more than their share). There’s a different position I could pitch here as a part-time thing, and I’m mulling that, but not sure if it’s the right thing for me so doing a lot of soul-searching right now on what I want and need.

        Really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond. And the other questions today on retirement which are also beneficial for me to read.

    4. Rex Libris*

      There will always be other interests and passions to pursue, but the one thing you’ll never get more of is time, so I’d say definitely retire, then enjoy the freedom to follow whatever muse you want, for however long you want.

    5. EHSManager*

      Would it be possible to go from full-time to part-time in your current position and see how that goes? It wouldn’t be stepping away, just stepping back. I’m not sure if that’s reasonable in your position but might be something to consider as an interim step before retiring.

      1. Potential retirement anon*

        No, not in my current position. There is a possibility of a related one that we need but haven’t been able to afford implementing that I’ve thought about pitching as a part-time thing. Not sure yet about it but thinking about it. But before I could or would do so I’d need to be ready to leave if they didn’t go for it, so still working to get my thoughts in order and do my due diligence on economic feasibility as the first step. That options in the back of my mind as something I could see if they wanted as long as I was willing to retire completely if they said no. Thanks for the thoughts.

    6. Brevity*

      Reading through all of your responses, you and I are in similar, but not exactly the same, circumstances. I worked in the same general field for 26 years, then left after the loss of both parents in quick succession (with the resultant chores of funeral, lawyers, cleaning out and selling their house, etc. OY), plus a chronic illness going really haywire, plus my last employer treating me very badly. I resigned with nothing lined up, so I’m not actually retired, and I don’t technically *need* to work, although I’m not ready to actually retire just yet. I’ve been non-employed and just dealing with The Stuff for two years now.

      I think you should trust yourself to retire and give yourself that rest you’ve already referred to; but also trust yourself that you will, eventually, find what you need and want to do. In other words, I don’t think you need to map out the whole plan just yet. I get the instinct to do so, I really do; but you already know, from life experience, that you can make all kinds of plans just to see them go kapoof! when Life Happens. I think you could maybe throw a little more caution to the wind here, and be fine.

      1. Potential retirement anon*

        Thanks for your thoughts and condolences on your losses. I appreciate the phrasing of trusting myself to basically deal with whatever I decide to do (paraphrasing). Hopefully I’ll have a better sense of my options within the next month or two, starting with next week’s first financial planning meeting. Fingers crossed I can throw caution to the wind :)

    7. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

      My sister-in-law and her husband were both software engineers and lived in the NH/MA area for 10 years on one income while investing the other. They retired at 50 & 49. Last I heard (a decade ago/prior to my divorce) he was dabbling in day-trading (profitably) and she was using computer designs for her quilting. Both were happy to be out of their field.

      1. Potential retirement anon*

        Thanks for sharing your family members’ experiences. I wish that I had an interest in something like day-trading as a lot of my inheritance is in investments – luckily my main broker is someone that our family has long history with so I can hopefully trust.

    8. Potential retirement anon*

      I just wanted to say I really appreciate all of the responses and people sharing perspectives and experiences. I’m a very long time reader, under two other user names (one for work-related, one for things related to a specific topic that comes up often), but to maintain anonymity in case of folks where I am reading AAM went anon for this. My first time posting for advice – and it’s been awesome to get such great insights.

  27. I strive to Excel*

    I’ve got an unusual networking question, hoping people here have some suggestions!

    I am a relatively new employee at my company, but because of my previous experience and current role in the finance/admin side I am going to be attending a nationwide industry software conference for our industry-specific ERP (enterprise resource program). There is a non-zero chance that our direct competitors will show up as well. They’re not just competition in the customer space: this is a company with whom we are currently having a legal battle.

    While I’m familiar in co-existing and networking in spaces with companies that are in competition with mine, it’s always been “yes technically we have the same client pool but there is more than enough work to go around”, and generally they’ve been on good terms with each other. I’m aware I might be disastering ahead of time, since there’s a good chance no one from their company will show up. But in the meantime: what does one do in this situation? Politely ignore them? Have a few minutes of small talk and then excuse oneself to the coffee table? Borrow from the cattiest of Jane Austin’s work (joking, mostly)?

    1. Decidedly Me*

      The people that work for the company aren’t the company itself. I don’t know what the lawsuit is specifically, but it’s unlikely that any of the employees even care about it. I’d behave just as you would if there was no lawsuit.

    2. HonorBox*

      I think you can be polite, make some small talk and move on. Treat them professionally and with kindness, don’t dive too far into work topics, and then excuse yourself.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      Contact your legal office, ask for guidance, and find out if there are issues you need to be aware of. In a situation where there was a contentious litigation I was told under no circumstances to comment on “x”. Which of course was the first thing someone asked me – not a rep of the other company in the lawsuit but yes, he showed up and joined the group as the question was asked. You need to know if there are mines buried somewhere.

      2. I strive to Excel*

        Good idea! We are way too tiny to have a legal department, but I will check with my boss and see what he says.

  28. Dr. Doll*

    Asking for advice from folks considering when to retire: I plan(ned) to retire next summer. But an opportunity has arisen for an exciting challenge with a lot more money. If I got that job and stayed for a year, the extra money would go into my pension. My husband is in favor especially because of that aspect.

    My husband has not really thought through what a new job in a new city would mean for us. He wants a playmate, and my doing something like this would mean that I am Seriously Not Available To Play.

    Dilemma: It’s exciting! It’s more money! It feels like “giving up” to not even apply. But I don’t really want to work for two more years. Also I know they want someone in there for a good 6-8 or even 10 years, so it feels like applying falsely. When I think, what would I be happy I did in 1 yr, 5 yr, and 10 yr, I genuinely don’t know.

    Of course, this is all perfectly premature because I haven’t even applied yet. Applying is a lot of work that I don’t want to do if I’m not pretty serious that I would take it if offered.

    What says the wise commentariat?

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Unless you absolutely need the money to safely retire, I would pass since you mentioned not wanting to work past your planned date. You’ve nearly reached retirement- go enjoy it when it’s time. :)

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        Came here to say this.
        Plus, if you both have good health now, go out and play while you can! You’ll never regret having more fun times with the one you love.

    2. ruthling*

      Apply and have a conversation with your husband before you get any further. Listen to his concerns and explain your feelings. If you’d feel major regret not even trying for this, it’s worth doing the hard conversations to figure out if it would work.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      Professional opinion: I work with retirees and people considering the timing of their retirement. Coming to the end of your planned ‘working period’ can really cause some big feelings to come up – the mindset shift of forgetting about climbing the ladder, feelings about the title you earned versus what you had hoped, the acceptance of ‘I have $X saved in retirement’ or ‘my pension will be $X’ versus trying to increase those numbers, the focus on home/family/comfort over productivity, and more. More than one client I’ve spoken with has, instead of retiring, taken a big job – most of those are NOT happy. I’ve also worked with clients that retired and then a short year or two later are SO antsy at home because they never filled up their non-work life so retirement is just a long stretch of nothingness.

      Personal opinion: my husband is also one wanting a playmate. Even in discussing the increased needs when going into a new job, and him understanding that more money = less time together… it is simply not something he can deal with for more than a month and remain upbeat & emotionally healthy. I love him, I want him to be happy and well, so the work I’ve chosen is never going to be long-term high intensity to be sure that part of life is smooth. Going into retirement with slightly more money and a rocky marriage doesn’t sound TO ME like a good trade-off, but we all have our own math about things like that.

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I had the opposite issue: my husband retired before I did and he has a lot of time-consuming hobbies he absolutely loves. He’s also much more of a homebody than I am and he’s in introvert and I am, well, not. So when I started talking about retiring he kept discouraging me. “But what are you going to DO?” He always framed it as concern about me. I finally sat him down and said “Is this about money?” We looked carefully at our finances (again) and concluded that no, it wasn’t. It turned out that he was worried because he knew I wanted to travel more than he was willing to. I informed him that he didn’t have to come with me, retired six months later, and take a 3-4 day trip at least once a month, mostly without him.

    4. WestsideStory*

      I suggest you apply and see what happens. The big issue I think would be moving to a city for this particular job? Are there any benefits to moving from where you are now? Would it be a hassle to move?

      Most of my colleagues now are on one side of the other of the retirement fence. One lesson from them: If you are in the U.S., check and compare what your Social Security payment would be if you retire now, versus two or more years from now. Whatever you do, do NOT retire to take Social Security before your minimum year (age 67 for most folks).

      1. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

        I went ahead and started my Social Security when I retired at 62. As a Cancer survivor, my estimated life expectancy indicated to me that I may not make it to 80, so I would end up with nearly the same income total from SS if I started at 62. The income from SS allows me to delay withdrawals from my 401K, which generates more interest for the event that I do live longer.

    5. Annony*

      The way to describe it here, it doesn’t sound like you actually want the job. You feel like you should want it, but you just don’t. You are looking forward to retirement and while more money is nice, ramping up when you want to be ramping down is soul killing. Don’t force yourself to apply when in your gut you really want to plan your retirement.

    6. Hyaline*

      Normally I would say “go ahead and apply, why not?” but the caveat here is–don’t go ahead and apply if you’re the kind of person who has a hard time getting off the train once it leaves the station. That is–if the allure of “getting this job, *achieving* this” is going to get in the way of objectivity, do your thinking first and leave the application on the table if you won’t be able to bow out no matter how poor of a fit it actually is for your life.

      One line is really sticking out to me–“it feels like giving up to no even apply.” That’s overachiever thinking, right there, and it can get you into trouble when it comes to knowing what you actually want. It’s not “giving up” to pass on opportunities that aren’t really opportunities because you don’t really want them.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        I remember a book title I saw once years ago that has stuck with me: “I Don’t Know What I Want but I Know it’s Not This,” and to me that’s what’s echoing behind this job offer. Maybe it’s also a little resentment at the work universe, shades of “I’m finally going to retire and NOW you offer the kind of job I’ve always worked towards?” Kind of like being offered a ride right after you’ve booked an Uber.

        Moving is another major thing, as well. You would retire from this new job at some point, and have to start your post retirement life in a new city, trying to build a new friend network, after spending most of your time there working. I think that’s something to consider.

        Basically, unless you do need the money and/or medical coverage, I’d balance “what I should want as a worker” against “what I’ve always wanted for myself.” You don’t owe the work world ten, or even two, more years of labor if you don’t want to give it.

    7. Rex Libris*

      A friend of mine who is a Lutheran pastor says she’s never heard anyone on their deathbed say “I wish I’d worked more.”

    8. ampersand*

      I say pass on this opportunity; you say you don’t have a desire to work for another two years. If it were me, I’d be concerned that if I took a job that my husband was kind of pushing for, it might breed resentment on my end. Not saying you’d react the same—just that it’s something to potentially be aware of when making a decision.

      1. Retitrree*

        I’d say it really depends on how old you are. I retired relatively late, and if something had come up in the past year, where I could’ve gotten a lot more money, I wouldn’t even have thought of it. If it had happened when I was 55 I probably would’ve jumped at it.

    10. retired3*

      Retire. You don’t know what your situation will be in the future. I am 80. I retired at 60, with consulting work a couple of times a month. I wanted to hike and had unforgettable experiences. I traveled. In my late 70’s I had a medicial catastrophe and normal aging and now I am not able to do those things. I had no bucket list and no regrets. It’s an illusion to think that you can plan your future (yoga: all you have is the now). At 60 I had no way to foresee the work I would still be doing (different than my work career), the living situations I’ve been in, and the people I would meet and love along the way. Thinking we can plan our futures is our way to try to control life events we can’t control.

  29. Pay no attention...*

    Starting with the question: Should I say something to a coworker about her absolute inability to stand/sit still during virtual meetings or leave that to our boss? (she’s WFH)

    We have a Teams department meeting that really doesn’t last that long, but it does need to occur so that the whole team can coordinate our respective parts of a campaign or project, or be prepared to pick up a project without repeating all of the info to catch them up. The meeting moves quick on most subjects. We are a video on kind of team except in occasional circumstances, like someone has to blow their nose or take an urgent call.

    My coworker has picked up a newish habit (6 months that it’s really gotten bad) that I certainly find very distracting during our department virtual meetings — she is constantly… I really mean constantly… moving: picking something up off the floor, walking away to get something, filling her candy jar, pick up one of her cats (the cats are the biggest distraction), fix the window shade, tidy up the room, on and on… and on.

    She also forgets to mute her mic quite often so we can hear her talking to the cats or moving things around while someone else is trying to give their update. I think she thinks that she’s “listening” so it’s fine, but it’s really grating on me that she isn’t reading the room that no one else does anything like this — at all, ever. Others who WFH with kids or pets and household tasks find a way to shut it all out for the 30 minutes we have this meeting.

    Do I: suck it up, talk to her directly about it, talk to the boss about it?

    1. Abigail*

      I sympathize, this sounds incredibly annoying and unprofessional.

      I would start with checking official policies on remote work. My job has clear rules for remote meetings. Consistently acting this way in meetings violates like 5 of them.

    2. HonorBox*

      Question: Is there evidence that she’s missing important details? Are balls being dropped because she’s distracted in the meetings? And I’m not thinking big things like missing a deadline. I’m thinking something as seemingly innocent as following up with a DM or email later asking for clarity on something that was discussed.

      If the answer is no, you may just need to suck it up. But if there are instances you can point to, especially when it has an impact on you or coworkers, point it out to the boss. You’re not complaining about the movement or the cats. You’re commenting on the fact that someone isn’t paying attention in meetings and others are having to go back and rehash.

    3. I strive to Excel*

      I agree with HonorBox. Is it affecting her work performance? Talk to her about that. Definitely talk to her about the mic, because that’s annoying. But if she’s contributing and on the ball, I’d drop it, or even consider if y’all have to be on video. A lot of people focus better if they have something to do with their hands while listening, or are able to pace.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Definitely talk to her about the mic

        If talking to her doesn’t change anything, Teams has an option to mute other people’s microphones during meetings (unless your company IT turned off that option). People aren’t notified who turned off their mic, so there won’t be any hard feelings of “Pay no attention… is always muting me during meetings.”

        Also, if you do end up going to “suck it up” route, can you put a sticky note over her box on your screen when you’re in the Teams meeting so you won’t be distracted by her walking around? Or play around with the different view options Teams has. There might be an option to just see the video of whoever is talking at the time, instead of seeing everyone’s video on one screen.

        1. MsM*

          Zoom has that as well, if you’re the host. Although I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just start with “Jane, could you mute yourself, please?”, and then take care of it for her if that request is ignored.

      2. Abigail*

        But the focus of everybody in the meeting matters. I focus better when somebody doesn’t tidy their space during a meeting. I focus better with our pets in a room or on a call.

        A reasonable compromise in this would be her using a fidget or pacing.

        It is not reasonable for her to do anything she wants. Pets and cleaning are a reasonable boundary to draw on remote meetings.

        1. GythaOgden*

          Agreed. It’s for the comfort of everyone and the focus of everyone, and sometimes repetitive movement undermines the whole thing anyway, regardless if it’s an issue for the person who’s fidgeting.

    4. Orange m&m*

      Can you or somebody ask her to turn off her camera? Preferably before the meeting, one on one so you’re not calling her out in front of people. Just note the movement is distracting. Then, if needed, you can later ask her to mute her mic. This can all be very matter of fact.

      1. sb51*

        There’s also settings in most teleconference software to set whether or not you can see other people’s video, and who you can see — a “only show the speaker” option would avoid showing her as long as the muting issues are solved, a “turn off all incoming video” would be a little heavy of a hammer, but could work, etc.

    5. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Your first line made me think, oh no, it me, because I have a standing desk and a chronic inability to not shift from foot to foot. (If the camera is off, there’s a non-zero chance I’m full-on jogging in place. :P ) My previous manager used to tell me to dock the boat if I wasn’t paying attention. :) (And I’m a lot more diligent about it in meetings outside of my direct peers/manager too. My current manager thinks it’s funny because she’d be doing the same thing, but since she has a seated desk she joggles her foot all day long instead.)

      But I don’t, like, walk around the room with camera on, and I definitely don’t talk to my candy jar or my pets during meetings. Yikes.

    6. CoffeeIsMyFriend*

      I feel like this crosses the line with all of the manipulating of things and visibly interacting with her cats. if she was just fidgeting or even occasionally walking around I wouldn’t say anything but I feel like this is pretty excessive to be doing while visible. even if it’s not directly impacting her work it is impacting other people’s work because it’s hard enough to focus online without someone doing all of those activities while visible

      whether you talk to her or your boss I think depends on your relationship with her.

    7. Kathenus*

      Trying to remember if Teams has this option or not, but in Zoom you can change to where you can see the participants or not see them. So if you can change your view you may be able to just not see her and only see the person talking/presenting. If you can do that, and address muting her mic (so she doesn’t keep popping up as the speaker accidentally) you may solve the problem on your end anyway.

    8. A perfectly normal-size space bird*

      Definitely talk to her about it, or talk to your boss about getting someone to be in charge of muting people who aren’t speaking. I’ve been in daily meetings the past two weeks and it’s incredibly distracting to hear people fidgeting, typing, talking to others, etc. Especially when wearing headphones.

      If this also happens on-camera, talk to your boss about turning cameras off if possible. I know some places want cameras on in meetings to gauge reactions or to make sure people are participating but if she’s clearly doing other tasks, reactions can’t be gauged and it’s hard to determine participation.

    9. spcepickle*

      I would ignore it – Muting her is a kindness, I do it people all the time when they leave their mic on. Either shift your teams window so you can’t see her box or stick a sticky note over it or something. Unless if affecting your work no need to get involved.

    10. Hyaline*

      I would focus on the fact that you find it distracting, not that you perceive her as not listening. If you’re able to snag her attention and say something (like if we’re talking meetings of four people, not forty) or you could drop something into chat, I would probably try to frame it as a “do me a favor”: “Hey, Kathy, I’m finding it really distracting when you move around on camera. Could you please hold off on feeding Friskers until after the meeting?” or “I’m sorry, but when you get up, it’s a distraction and I’m having a hard time staying on task.”

      But if that doesn’t do the trick, yeah, it’s an issue for her boss–you can ask for what you need from others, but you don’t get to decide if someone is “doing meetings right” from a management perspective.

      1. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

        Yes, discuss it with her first, because when you bring it to your manager’s attention they’re going to ask if you already asked it of her.

  30. Laggy Lu*

    Can we talk about “skills tests” in interviewing? I am currently looking for a job for the first time in many years. I’ve had 3 interviews and after the first one all 3 have mentioned a skills test as the second step. I didn’t move on in one, I did the test in one (and didn’t move on – it was difficult and timed!), and now I am waiting to hear if I need to do the skills test for the last.
    So I am guessing this is a thing now, yay.
    So, what kind of skills tests have you had? Maybe we can all help each other better prep for the latest trend in torturing job seekers :)

    The test I had to do was for an event planning job. It was a 2 hour timed exercise where I had to pick a real life venue, look through the other members of the team, and pitch 3 talks for the conference. Then I had to create a start to finish timeline/event plan for a one-day conference, including a run of show. Honestly, I think it was too much for two hours. It would have been better if they gave it to me, said, don’t spend more than 2 hours on it (to be reasonable) and then ask me to return it within 24 hours.

    1. Kam-AH-laaa de dooo*

      That’s not a skills test – that’s unpaid work. A skills test is data entry, typing, and software use, but it’s not completing a project. Yes, 2 hours is too much. Although if they paid you, then fire away.

      Instead, they should provide you with a scenario with problems, have you identify the problems and during the interview discuss the issues and how you would solve them.

      I, against good judgment, prepared a 90-day stewardship plan for a mock donor, for an interview. We spent no time on it during the interview. I opt-ed out of the process.

      1. Laggy Lu*

        I know! And I was pretty salty about it. I expected something more like, review a fake vendor contract and give ideas on how to improve it, or pick a fake topic and tell us how you would recruit speakers, or the like. Those are skills that can be tested in a short amount of time.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Applying through Indeed I occasionally get a skill test request. Apply to a listing that doesn’t list any preliminary testing > Indeed notifies me I need to do X skill test to proceed. These are timed (in my experience 2 minutes per question, about a dozen questions) and fairly basic, but if you started it not expecting a bunch of questions you could absolutely screw it up. I have not had any feedback (including being contacted for an interview) from any of these type of applications – are my skills bad? is the job posting attracting a ton of attention? is the company a mess? I just don’t know y’all.

    3. I strive to Excel*

      I had a technical skills test for an accounting interview. I found it very reasonable. It took no more than 10-15 minutes. They presented a pretty high level scenario – company wants to buy X property for Y purpose, what’s the high-level journal entries that would have to be made and what are some accounting-relevant decisions that would have to be considered,

    4. kalli*

      I had a trial/skills test for an admin job where I spent an entire day proving I could read the ‘how to enter this into excel’, enter this into excel, and read data and enter that into excel too.

      Except because that was considered a trial and it was actual work they had set aside for trials, it was paid.

      I did get the job, but I had to travel for surgery and they couldn’t hold the job until I got back and was cleared for work.

    5. Pay no attention...*

      I’ve taken and given skills tests for decades (graphic design) but it’s always been about demonstrating a level of proficiency at using the software, rather than completing a project. There’s been a wide discrepancy between how candidates rate their skill level at something like Adobe PhotoShop and what we think of as intermediate to advanced. When I’m giving the test, I add a time limit because I think that a beginner probably can find the answer and complete the task eventually, but I’m not testing their google skills — I want to know what they already know. I always pad the time too because nervous people often take longer to do something than they normally would; so if I think a test should take 10 minutes I give them 20.

      The skills test you took doesn’t sound reasonable at all.

      1. Wolf*

        > There’s been a wide discrepancy between how candidates rate their skill level at something like Adobe PhotoShop and what we think of as intermediate to advanced.

        Even with basic MS Office, it’s difficult to rate oneself. I used to think I’m decent at Excel because it was what I used in my previous jobs, and then I learned how much it can do that I didn’t even know was possible.

  31. Pillow Castle*

    I’ll be starting a new job in a managerial role with an already established team, which is new for me. I have plenty of people leadership experience, but always with new teams. Any advice on how to do well when coming in as a new manager for a team?

    Added complication – the team isn’t doing well, so I’ll likely need to make some pretty quick, potentially large changes to get things back on track. This hopefully won’t require people changes, but could.

    1. HonorBox*

      Ask questions and listen. Get the team’s perspective. Hear what stumbling blocks they’re running into. See if they have suggestions. And then when you have to make changes, if you can incorporate something Jack or Jill told you, give them credit for that too.

    2. I strive to Excel*

      Unless you have to deal with something extremely severe (theft from the company, regulations being broken resulting in potential liability, etc), I would avoid making changes that will impact your employees in the first few weeks. I know you say the team isn’t doing well and that you have to make some quick changes, but giving yourself time to do a good root cause analysis is always useful.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      When I came onboard, I specifically promised my teams as much transparency as I could give them, and then held to that. It’s been mentioned many times as one of the things they value about me.

    4. Hotdog not dog*

      I had exactly that situation, and I met with the team both as a group and in one-on-one meetings to ask them about their perspective on what was working, what wasn’t, and what they wanted to see moving forward.
      We did lose a few, mostly because they either couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt to the new normal, but after about a year we became a very high functioning team. I’m no longer in that role (in fact the whole team is now dispersed due to a corporate reorg) but am still in touch with many of them.
      I think the key was to listen and make sure everyone felt heard. Even if their ideas weren’t implemented, they got a fair hearing. I also chose to lead by example, so was very conscious of open communication and following through on commitments.
      Congratulations, and I hope you and your new team flourish!

    5. The Unionizer Bunny*

      Find out if it’s a unionized workplace. If it is, DON’T make any quick changes. Check with HR to find out what you can do. Even if it’s “just” a small change. You can act on behalf of the company, and you don’t want to start out by having the company breach a contract this way.

  32. TooTiredToThink*

    I am a bit of a team lead for a software group. We have a daily stand-up (usually between 7-30 minutes) and every other week we have our sprint planning meeting (60-90 minutes). We do have random other meetings during the week, but I do my absolute best to keep meetings as short and to the point as possible and try to keep the majority of the team out of as many meetings as possible.

    We are fully remote so these are all virtual meetings.

    I am noticing that my team often is distracted and not always paying attention. So I’ll ask a question and then have to repeat what we just talked about to get the input from the one who was distracted. More importantly, I’ll explain the general purpose of something we’ll be working on and then get questions within 3 days about something I explicitly answered in either the write-up or in the initial meeting.

    I do not have control over performance issues so how do I encourage the team to pay more attention in these meetings without requiring video on? Because I really do not want to have to do so but I am starting to feel like that may be the only solution.

    1. ruthling*

      Are these meetings actually helpful to all the people attending? How can you make them more so? Or could a lot of these meetings be an email? If you need to continue to meet, set expectations at the very beginning of each meeting. If there are specific people who are always the issue, have a private conversation with them about what’s going on and what you need them to change.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Can you provide a pre-meeting agenda or hitlist, or a post-meeting minutes? I’m among the many who doesn’t learn by listening very well. I SWEAR I’m trying to pay attention but my ears are full, idk. Perhaps it’s more of a company-wide vibe of ‘too busy to pay attention’ whether that’s a meeting or an email where that’s just another avenue to be ignored in, but maybe you have a group of visual learners (in techdev, I can see that possibility)

      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        Not for these types of meetings. They’re very standard in software.

        A couple thoughts:
        Do the stand-ups need to be daily? Would a MWF cadence work?
        Are people following good standup discipline? I’m not clear on how the time can vary so widely unless people are digressing into things that should be tabled until after the standup – let the people directly involved stay and hash it out after everyone else has done their updates.

        That seems like a really long planning meeting. Are there ways to pare it down – make sure tickets are created beforehand, etc?

        1. TooTiredToThink*

          Basically when it’s only about 7-10 minutes it’s because we don’t have any impediments. When it goes the full 30 it’s because there are either impediments that we need to discuss/deal with or I ask them to put their brainstorming caps on to help each other out (the sheer amount of times when Person A has said something is impossible and Person B has known exactly how to do something and vice versa has been… a lot). Sometimes it’s because I need to cover something that they need to know (like something from upper management). I really try to keep the stand-ups to 15 minutes max and I’m the type that as soon as someone is not needed in a meeting I will tell them they may leave if they’d like to.

          I’ve tried not having stand-ups daily and what I found was that it made everything worse.

          The planning meeting goes as fast as it can. But it does feel like its where I lose them the most. But it’s where we go over the stories to get points figured out; assign out the stories; etc. It’s a meeting where I actively need their input throughout the whole hour. Most of the time the tickets are created beforehand.

          Maybe I should ask them to take a look at the backlog before the planning meeting so they have a bit more understanding of the tickets before we meet?

          1. I Have RBF*

            You also might want to check into Kanban if a steady flow pull rather than Scrum push and sprint would work better for your team. You’ll still have to groom your backlog, but it’s easier to shift priorities and keep WIP constant if you do.

            (I hate scrum, but I work in an operations type role instead of pure software dev environment. Scrum to me is just mini deathmarches every two weeks.)

          2. AgileSmagile*

            So most of the daily standup I’ve attended don’t allow discussion of how to solve issues or follow up questions on status updates until after everyone goes. So 15 minute standup with just did/planning to do/impediments without discussion then another 15 minutes for followups/brainstorming where only those who can contribute stay.

            It sounds like you do a combined sprint launch/sprint review/retrospective? Most places I’ve worked do those as three separate meetings. Sprint review is a joint meeting across all scrum teams working on the same product that ensures all of the teams know where things stand on the product as a whole. Interesting new features may be demoed with the opportunity to ask questions. This has typically been 60-120 minutes depending on the number of teams involved.

            The sprint kickoff is where the team looks at the stories prioritized for the sprint, discusses them, determines requirements/tasks, estimates times, and (in some cases) assigns stories. This has most typically been 2 hours long.

            Some places also do retrospective every sprint, others every 2-3 sprints. They’ve typically been 60 minutes long, although it can vary a bit.

            It sounds like you may be trying to jam too much into a single 90 minute meeting and information is getting lost? Also, copious notes about each story/task are your friend during kickoff, especially if tasks get picked up by the next free person rather than assigned. This has typically been handled by either the scrummaster or product owner at my jobs.

            Hope this helps!

          3. Sr Software Engineer*

            Agreed with AgileSmagile on all points. In general, it sounds like you might be optimizing for fewer meetings? But that might conflict with your goal of getting people to actively contribute. IME if you want productive brainstorming, do it in a separate meeting, limit the number of engineers to 4 or less, and try to give each participant some guidance on what you expect from them. E.g. Dawn, you’ve worked with this codebase before; Megan, you’re interested in ML; Jane, you brought up some good points in the last code review, etc. People tend to contribute more when they have a specific role to play.

            I personally think that applies as well to story refinement. Could you assign sets of tickets to individuals or smaller groups to do pre-refinement before sprint planning? Then have them present the stories they refined at the planning meeting; everyone participates, and there’s (theoretically) less work to do in the meeting itself.

  33. Dandylions*

    How do you ignore “not real” pressure.

    I just started a new job that is backlogged and I’m also behind already on what has came in for me. While it’s partly due to stuff outside of work, like my infant keeping me up all night, car trouble, emergency dental work, etc,. it’s mainly due to all the trainings I have to do before I can do my work. This week alone I have had two 4 hour trainings, plus travel off site, as well as 15+ hours of mandatory online trainings.

    That’s left very little time for doing my actual work which is backed up.

    I’m struggling with guilt even though I know no one expects me to be on top of all this yet. How do you turn this off? Working extra OT to catch up just isn’t on the table anymore.

    1. HonorBox*

      “I know no one expects me to be on top of all this yet.”

      Remind yourself of that. And if you feel compelled to, talk to your manager. They may have perspective about how long it takes for someone to get up to speed and can provide some reassurance that this is what everyone goes through. They may be able to show you the light at the end of the tunnel related to the huge time suck the trainings are for new team members. Just remind yourself that you’re paid for the hours you’re there, and some of the requirements will be out of your way soon.

    2. Cordelia*

      Talk to your manager. If it’s a job that requires so much mandatory training before you can start work, they need to have factored this in and have a plan for how the “actual work” will be covered while you are completing your training.
      It sounds like they were backlogged before anyway, so the problem is not of your making, and it’s not entirely on you to fix it. Once you are fully trained you can start on clearing the backlog, but it’s not your job to be doing that yet. Your current job is to complete the training, don’t separate that out from the “Actual work” – training is work!

  34. Charles Boyle*

    I interviewed on Wednesday at a company that claims to be “faith-based” and has a mission statement that implies the same. It is not a religious organization at all. It is a for-profit organization which does not sell any products or services that are targeted toward any specific religion or any religious organization.

    I did not ask about it in the interview, even though it was in the LinkedIn posting for the job, but the recruiter mentioned that they were faith-based and elaborated on it a bit. I don’t remember everything they said, but they mentioned how one of their things was “using your God-given talent” or something along those lines. The recruiter admitted that this “wasn’t for everyone.”

    I was raised Episcopal, but have not practiced in a very long time and don’t claim myself to be part of any religion. When the recruiter asked how I felt, I just paused and said “That sounds fine” because I wasn’t sure what to say. It sounds like they are basically running this company as a non-profit. While it doesn’t sound like they’re doing anything illegal, I just find the idea of this uncomfortable. I think I would feel uncomfortable regardless of any religious beliefs I had.
    I do not know if I will be selected to move to the next phase of the process, but wondered what anyone’s thoughts are on this situation.

    1. penny*

      Just this week I didn’t spend $1000 for a home furnishing because the website said they got the company name by forming a prayer circle. How desperate are you for this job?

      1. Charles Boyle*

        I am looking to move out of the area I’m in and this would provide me that opportunity, but definitely not “desperate.” They didn’t mention a prayer circle or anything about practicing religion in the workplace, but I think it could make people feel excluded.

        1. Paint N Drip*

          Faith-based can mean as little as crosses/paraphernalia on the walls. It can also mean they are using faith instead of good business logic to make decisions, holding employees to a moral standard of their faith, having cultural limitations on feedback, having different standards for men/women or the ‘right’ religious people/others, etc. Are you able to research the specific company before committing? You wouldn’t want to have this job that’s a big change on your resume that others in the industry look at and judge negatively, you know? You don’t want PraderU, probably.
          It really depends on your religiosity, your tolerance for others’ religiosity, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the info you’d garner in an interview that would suss out where along the continuum this particular business lands.

          1. Charles Boyle*

            Are you able to research the specific company before committing?

            I researched the company before the interview, the same as I do any company I have an interview scheduled with. However, I did a little more research after seeing your comment and saw on their website that a part of their purpose was “living out God’s calling.” I also looked at some 0f the Glassdoor reviews but only one cited anything about being faith-based. I also didn’t get through all of them because there were 27 pages of them.

            To your point about tolerance, I don’t have any issue with anyone’s religion, or even with people displaying their religion in their workplace, to a reasonable extent. That said, I generally don’t like the idea of a company incorporating religion into their culture or mission statement unless it’s a religious organization or a company that sells products that cater to a specific faith, such as a publishing company specializing in religious books.

          2. goddessoftransitory*

            The part about “using faith instead of good business logic” hit with me. It reminds me of the scene in Gone With the Wind where Rhett Butler is at a party with a bunch of Southern Gentlemen, all of whom are opining on the war.

            Their entire position is that God wants them to win and thus, they shall. Rhett’s pointing out of the superior troops, firepower, and readiness of the North makes not a dent in their complacent self-assurance. That’s the moment he becomes a war profiteer, because it’s clear who’s going to win this war.

            Don’t work for a company that’s decided they know what God wants.

    2. I strive to Excel*

      My immediate – and I do mean immediate – first impression is “this workplace is going to run like a cult”. Exeunt stage left pursued by bees.

      My more serious analysis – it’s not a comfortable position being at a company that doesn’t align with your core values. There are certain companies I will never work for because I believe their products to be a huge net negative to the world as a whole, and I would not be comfortable supporting them in any way.

      This company sounds like they’re going to have a core value of a specific faith. Having a *recruiter* say “it’s not for everyone” is a bad sign. If you’re not fully on-board with that faith as a core value, I think you are likely to have a bad time at this company.

    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      You already feel uncomfortable and you’re not even working there yet. Do you want to work for an employer that makes you feel uncomfortable? I don’t think you’d be rash to say that you don’t think this is a place where you would feel like you fit in with the culture, and withdraw your candidacy.

    4. CommanderBanana*

      Honestly? This sounds like the owners are super religious and view their company as an opportunity to shove their religion at people.

      I’m Jewish and verrrrrry sensitive to this sort of thing, so I’d probably just take myself out of the running. YMMV with how much of this you’re willing to put up with.

      1. Charles Boyle*

        This sounds like the owners are super religious and view their company as an opportunity to shove their religion at people.

        I have mixed feelings about whether or not they’d use their company to shove religion at people, but I could definitely see people feeling like they didn’t fit in because of it. This is not a governmental organization but I think this situation is possibly somewhat similar to the governor of Louisiana requiring the Ten Commandments to be posted in classrooms.

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          I think they’re trying to get out of paying for certain types of federally mandated healthcare coverage.

    5. Hyaline*

      So, in college, I worked at a sandwich joint that was, kid you not, a franchise owned by a company that defined itself as “religious.” It was very much for-profit, not a nonprofit, but they framed their ethical principles around Christian morals which, for a sandwich joint, wasn’t really an issue at all and never came into play. (The guys who owned the company were very nice and did seem to live up to the parts of their “Christian framework” that talked about respect and compassion, FWIW.) The only faith-based practice that came down, ultimately, was that our shorts had to be fingertip length.

      But the point is–yes, they can have a for-profit business that has an ethical framework in a religious worldview and yes, you should absolutely find out what that means for the work you will be doing and the functions of their organization before committing. If it’s handwavey or vague that actually worries me more than if they come out and say how it impacts their business practices, even if those impacts are controversial or not for everyone, because at least you know. If you have another interview, I might try to prod on this a little. “What elements of your organization have religious elements?” “Do you have a core mission statement or ethical tenets, and what are they based on?” “In practice, how does this show up in workplace decisions or typical working situations?”

      1. Charles Boyle*

        This company is actually a franchise owner for a well-known food chain. I think it’s telling that they came out and mentioned being faith-based without me asking about it and said “it’s not for everyone.” I think the recruiter might have gathered, based on my tone, that I wasn’t 100% sure about it though.

    6. Rex Libris*

      If a for-profit, not explicitly religious business is pushing their “faith based” identity that hard, it would read to me like we’re probably talking less Episcopalian and more conservative evangelical crusader. Personally, I’d run the other way fast.

    7. Anon For This*

      There is a faith-based, for-profit company (totally not in a religiously focused industry) in the town where I live, and my understanding from people who are familiar with the company is that they’re pretty up-front about it and focused on it. Based on that, and the other commenters’ experiences, I would be verrrry hesitant to get on-board a company like that, unless I was pretty religious too.

      Interestingly, the company in my town now seems to have removed the explicit religion references from their website. Wonder if that has to do with the current political climate in the US?

    8. I Have RBF*

      Honestly, I would run. A for-profit company that claims to be “faith-based” sounds like a cult. But I’m not Christian.

  35. JustaTech*

    TL;DR How honest should I be with my coworkers when they ask about the state of the company?

    Long version: I am one of the longest tenured people at my site (and honestly in the whole company at this point), so when folks want to know things about how stuff was done in the past, or why things are the way they are, they usually come to me.
    The company has been through a lot of ups and downs over the past decade+, more downs than ups if we’re honest, and right now my department and site are at their lowest ever number of people. We are stretched painfully thin and the revenue numbers (not something we have any ability to influence) aren’t looking good. In addition my direct boss told me straight up that, even though I have been doing the work of a manager for most of the past year since they laid off my boss, I still can’t be called “manager” because of my title, and promotions are highly unlikely this coming year due to the money situation (thanks for being honest?).
    Recently I’ve had several coworkers ask me “is this unusually bad?” (not compared to when we went bankrupt?), “is this normal?” (no!) “are we going to get more people?” (this was a plaintive question from our hideously overworked facilities/safety guy) (Uh, unlikely, sorry), and “why are you still here?” (because I’m afraid of change and I missed the good hiring times).

    So far I’ve been honest with everyone who has asked (and they’ve all done it privately in person), but do I have some kind of obligation as a pseudo-manager to be more upbeat? (Like, upbeat within reason, I’m not drinking the Flavoraid.)
    And even if I have no obligation as a not-manager, how do I strike the balance between being honest and being negative/miserable/down? I like my coworkers and I don’t want every day to just be a gripefest or a group sad.

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      I would say be honest, but be matter-of-fact. Don’t sugarcoat the state of things, but refrain from casting blame or borrowing trouble by making dire predictions. If you know of things that are being done to ameliorate things, be honest about those as well.

    2. Kathenus*

      It sounds to me from your descriptions that you are handling things really professionally. Honest but not unprofessional. Just the fact you’re worried about striking the right balance is great, because it means that you are trying to do so. As is your effort to not let things turn into a ‘gripefest’. I think you’ve gotten this just right from what I can see.

      And separately, you may be doing this already, but no harm in looking around to see if there’s anything else out there you might like. Looking and even applying doesn’t commit you to change, and maybe you didn’t miss the good hiring times :). Good luck.

      1. JustaTech*

        Thank you! I’ve been applying on and off for years, and actually have had more good opportunities and interviews this year than in ages, even though nothing has gone anywhere (all the positions I’ve interviewed for have been canceled, which is gentler on my feelings than being rejected, even if it’s a worse sign for the market).

  36. Lemon.Pepper*

    I’m trying to move out of the non-profit space back to either corporate or government (my profession is relevant to all three) and I’m feeling so disheartened as I go through interviews. I’m finding that prospective employers are almost dismissive of my experience during interviews, as if I’m talking about volunteering on the dorm’s residents committee rather than being a senior professional in my field. You know, how some people think working in non-profits isn’t a ‘real’ job? That kind of thing. I just got a rejection for a position I interviewed for earlier this week where this was very much the vibe from the panel during the interview, and nothing I could say would ever have convinced them that my experience was relevant or at a level commensurate with the role they were trying to fill (I wonder separately why they bothered to interview me at all but I know it’s because I met the education criteria and years of post qualification experience). I worked in corporate/government for a few years before moving into non-profit and am keen to move back for a few reasons. Does anyone who has done it successfully have any tips?

  37. I beat the Waffle today*

    Interivew questions I had this week with a wildlife foundation based in the South but serves through the U.S.,

    “Now honey, how would your boss and coworkers describe you?”

    First, that’s a 2000 question, not a 2024 question
    Second, I’m not ‘Honey’
    Third, they’d say that you crossed the line.

    I ended the interview with, “Mr. H your question isn’t appropriate. It makes me feel like you don’t value women.” He adjusted but I said, “I’m not interested in continuing the interview.”

    1. HonorBox*

      Not saying it has to be OK, because we’re all entitled to the perspectives we have. But I can tell you that Southerners do tend to use “honey,” “sweetie” and similar words a lot. A friend just visited from up north and was pleasantly surprised that they were called “honey” and “sweetie” multiple times in a visit to a coffee shop and grocery store. It may be a bit generational too, as I’ve seen it more from those in the upper ranges of Gen X and older. I’ve never had the perspective that it is pejorative or ill-intended, just part of how they address people.

      Again, that can be a non-starter for you. But just giving perspective that it may have just been part of the guy’s comfortable vocabulary.

      1. Stars at night*

        It is the verbal equivalent of being patted on the head. And the fact that terms like that are almost exclusively used when addressing women should tell you all you need to know.

        1. HonorBox*

          When I’ve run into it, albeit not in an interview, it isn’t like a pat on the head. The friend who encountered it is female and was only interacting with other women.

          Was it great in an interview? Nope. Was it great that it was a man addressing a woman. Also nope. But I personally wouldn’t have been overly offended. Also, again I completely think it is fine for someone else to react negatively to it.

          1. Charlotte Lucas*

            I’m a mid-GenX, Midwestern woman, and I would find it strange and offensive in a job interview.

            I do not care in general for terms of endearment from people who I don’t know well. (And even those can get a side eye from me.)

          2. Goldfeesh*

            How often do men call other men “honey” to their faces in interviews? If a man wouldn’t call another man “honey,” they shouldn’t be calling a woman “honey” either.

            2. goddessoftransitory*

              And there it is. That’s the issue–if you wouldn’t say it to a man, don’t say it to a woman.

            3. Pippa K*

              Well, I once heard a middle-aged male bus driver greet another middle-aged male bus driver with “ hello, my lover” and everyone seemed to recognise it as an ordinary friendly greeting. But this was in the southwest of England where that is a term in use that way (although maybe not among younger people?). So my point here is just that particular places may have particular language patterns – I’m sure the OP had a sense of whether the speaker was being condescending or not, but these things are highly contextual.

        2. A perfectly normal-size space bird*

          Agreed. I’m from the south and am back to living in the south. I hated it when I was younger and still hate it now. I changed my entire pool schedule because the (older, male) lifeguard at the Y would NOT stop calling me sweetie and it felt so gross. It was easier to just change when I went swimming than have to figure out how to avoid him talking to me. Especially since asking him to stop just made it worse and the admin thought I was being too sensitive.

          I know so many people who hate it, but grit their teeth and put up with it because there’s a power imbalance or it’s from family or it’s from a woman to another woman and no one wants to be impolite. Because, despite what southerners would have you believe about how nice they are, the level of hostility when someone objects to something like being called sweetie can be a huge problem and have social ramifications. So I often feel like the level of acceptance of it in the south is artificially inflated.

      2. I beat the Waffle today*

        I’m from AZ and have lived in AL, FL, TX, TN, and NC again for more than 1/2 of my life. I’m not a Southerner but familiar with the respectable and passive-aggressive Southern habits and quirks. I hate the, “Ms Waffle, now tell me…” How about asking me how I prefer to be addressed? That’d be great. Or when children address me as ‘Miss Waffle….’ How about asking me what prefer? That’d be great.

        1. Dandylions*

          Wow. it’s not passive aggressive to say Ms. Waffle. You know it’s a sign of respect and yet you still want to be inidnant about it? Maybe you should move. You clearly hate living in the south if “Ms. Waffles” grinds your gears.

          This is like moving to Japan and being mad people bow and you are expected to bow because you have a personal hang up about bowing = subservience despite knowing it’s an ingrained part of the culture! lmao

          1. NaoNao*

            I believe the OP Waffles is talking about calling a woman Miss/Ms. [Given/Christian Name] like “Miss Julie” or “Miss Susanna” where the male counterpart would not be Mr. Tom or Mr. Jeremy (or at least I haven’t seen that usage be widely common, as “Miss Julie” is most commonly used by children under the care of that person and there are vastly fewer male caretakers of children, or minor relatives of a female older relative) not “Ms. [Surname]”, which would be a bit different.

            1. karstmama*

              the male equivalent in my part of NC is *definitely* mr tom or mr jeremy as well as miss julie and miss susanna. it’s usually used for your parents’ friends.

      3. Clisby*

        As a lifelong southerner, I would have ditched the rest of the interview too. “Honey” and “Sweetie” have not been considered professional for close to 50 years now. It’s true that you might hear it from someone who’s waiting on you, like the coffee shop barista or the cashier at the grocery store – but definitely not in an employment context.

        1. Dandylions*

          Where in the south are you? Cause I hear sweetie and sweat pea all the time on the phone with my NC and GA colleagues. It’s been pretty consistent since I started working in 2010 so by no means outdated since the 70s like you imply. It’s mainly older women who use it at work between coworkers, it’s rare for a man to use it unless we have a good rapport.

      4. Mrovka*

        Southerner here. And EW. NOBODY should be calling me “honey” in an interview. It’s either condescending and gross, or at best like the person is trying to comfort me, which is NOT a dynamic I want playing out in an interview!

        I get the customer service “honey/sweetie/hon” because you want the customer relaxed and feeling taken care of. But older Southern men calling women they do not know “honey” or “sweetie” in a professional context? “That’s how they grew up/that’s their generation” – yes, telling their womenfolk to “not worry their pretty heads about XYZ,” etc. Not good then, not good now.

        EW.

    2. GPL*

      It was inappropriate to call you “honey,” but I’m confused why you said that the question was inappropriate and not the form of address. What do you think is inappropriate/disrespectful about asking what your coworkers think of you? (I mean this genuinely – I think it’s a bad question because it’s not a great data point, but it seems benign to me)

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Yeah, if you remove the “honey” part, this a pretty normal question, even if it’s a bad one.

      2. I beat the Waffle today*

        It’s not a normal question in the current hiring environment. I’ve been through 20 interviews, no one has asked me but this guy/organization.

        First – am I going to tell you anything unflattering? No
        Second – am I going to tell you that we didn’t get along? No

        It’s a useless question. It has no value. What if I haven’t been in the workplace for years (not true, but for those coming back into the workplace)? Then what? Make it up?

        1. Rex Libris*

          It’s a poor example of its type, but this sort of question is usually more about what you say and how you say it rather than what the actual answer is. It’s trying to gauge temperament and attitude more than anything.

        2. Irish Teacher.*

          It may be useless (thought I’m not 100% sure of that) but that doesn’t make it inappropriate or outdated. I do agree the “honey” part was inappropriate, but I don’t see anything inappropriate about the question itself. Even if it’s useless, that’s sort of their problem. And there are a lot of questions asked in interviews that are pretty ineffective but which are generally harmless.

          There are also a lot of questions you will only be asked in maybe one interview in a 100 but that doesn’t necessarily make them bad questions and even if they are bad question, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are inappropriate or offensive, just…not very helpful. I have had some questions I was only asked once ever in all my years of being interviewed. Some were…really bad questions. Others were neutral or good. Not being asked often doesn’t necessarily mean that they are problematic.

          I can also see ways in which that question might have some use. No, you are not going to say anything negative about yourself or that you didn’t get along with your coworkers, but I don’t think every question has to be about your weaknesses. It could give them an insight into your working style. Like I might say something like “they’d describe me as meticulous and good at research and that I am very creative about lesson planning.” That gives a very different impression to somebody who’d say “they’d say I’m very much a team player who is very enthusiastic and gets involved in everything” or “they’d say I’m a good leader”. None of those are necessarily better or worse than the others, but they do give a sense of the person’s working style.

          I wouldn’t take the question as meaning “do your boss and coworkers like you?” but rather as “tell me about what aspects of your working style stand out to your boss and coworkers.”

          And yeah, as others have said, there isn’t going to be much difference between a 2020 question and a 2024 question. Some people will only interview very rarely and if the last time they interviewed was 2019, the odds are they are going to use the same or similar questions unless one has been shown to be legally problematic or something in the meantime.

          But yeah, I can see why the “honey” would bother you. That is definitely not interview appropriate.

          1. Hydrates all the flasks*

            To me, a dated (and also not okay) question is anything about my marital status, if I have kids or plan to have kids, and the like. For women, those were very common questions at one point and while the questions themselves aren’t illegal*, you generally don’t get them in interviews anymore for very good reasons. The last time I remember someone asking me that on a job interview was around 2012 and even then I was thinking, “oh hi 1967, do you want your paper dresses back, uhhhh WTF???” Was glad they didn’t offer me that job anyway, the outdated questioning probably was a good indicator of other poor boundaries and behaviors in that office (working for doctors—you love to see it).

            But the majority of other banal and inane interview questions? I can’t think of anything about them that would me think, “pfft Luke where’d you dig up this fossil” about the asker. Interview questions are dumb, it’s a part of life.

            *remember class: the questions themselves aren’t illegal to ask. But the interviewer legally can’t take your answers to those questions into consideration as part of the hiring process because DUH, automatic discrimination claim.
            So any interviewer/HR person/hiring manager with even 1/8 of a brain would just not ask anything remotely related to those types of questions. But as many of us have probably experienced, there are a lot of people out there in hiring positions who do not have even 1/8 of a brain :-P

    3. Stars at night*

      It seems like you know this about yourself, but you are one amazing human being. Thanks for sharing this strong, self-valuing, and articulate response.

      I hope the next organization that interviews you sees you and hires your spectacular self.

      I also hope Mr. H changes both his interview quests and his expectations.

    4. Hyaline*

      And…the *question* isn’t inappropriate? It has nothing to do with women? You may think it’s an outdated or unhelpful question but “how would your boss and coworkers describe you” is some pretty milquetoast, typical interview fodder. If you said “the question isn’t appropriate” rather than “I don’t think using terms like honey in the workplace is appropriate” this interviewer is probably very confused!

    5. Dandylions*

      Was there signs of sexism before this question? Because as a southern Millennial whose been called sweetie, honey, etc. by men and women I would not have taken this to be the red flag end the interview right this second that you seem to have.

      In addition the question of “How would your boss and coworkers describe you?” Is super standard, particularly in roles where your disposition is critical to the work at hand. I’ve been asked this everywhere I have worked despite currently living in the Midwest.

      In the future, if it bothers you to be called pet names, I highly recommend saying immediately. Oh no please call “my name” I don’t like pet names. Only jerks will keep using nicknames past that point. This is if you continue to look for employment with national orgs that will have you working closely with southerners. Best to take the habit for what it is, an older fashioned regional speech pattern that doesn’t immediately signal raging sexist.

      1. I beat the Waffle today*

        Not super standard. I’ve been through 20 interviews – no one has asked me this. It’s not normal anymore.

        And yes, any question starting with honey is inappropriate.

        1. Dandylions*

          I was literally asked this for the job I started three weeks ago…. And the job I got 2 years ago…and 2 years before that….

          It’s not some stoneaged strange question like “So honey are you married?”

        2. RagingADHD*

          You have decided it’s “a 2020 question” because you haven’t yet heard it in your current job search?

          What, was your last job search in 2020, so that’s the cutoff?

          If you keep going on interviews, you will soon discover that hiring trends don’t move that fast, and being “sooo four years ago” isn’t a thing unless you work at Runway magazine.

        4. Frank’s toupee*

          20 interviews in your entire career or just for this current bout of job searching? If it’s the latter, how long has that been going on?

          Because I’ll be honest, I’ve been on a lot more than 20 job interviews, as recently as March 2024, in both Northern and Southern states for a variety of jobs, being interviewed by men and women of all ages (I’m an elder millennial woman). And that question has definitely come up in a lot of those interviews.

          Honestly, if I had to interview someone tomorrow for a role, I’d probably ask it. No, I wouldn’t expect the interviewee to launch into a 30 minute deep dive about how all her coworkers think she’s dancing with the devil in the woods behind Samuel Booke’s farm —although that would certainly be a new and different data point!

          But I really don’t know why you’re digging your heels in on this insistence that it’s somehow more dated than side parts in one’s hair or pre-21st century notions of privacy. Maybe ease up on *that* attitude a bit in your job search (because that type of rigid thinking and self-righteousness is probably maybe coming across in interviews FYI) and you won’t have to suffer through a 30th interview with this supposedly “more dated than 99 cent per gallon gas” question.

    6. Bast*

      It’s an outdated question, but a common one to expect, along with the “what are your greatest strengths/weaknesses” types of questions that are in the same family. That being said, I wouldn’t be thrilled about someone calling me honey in an interview, BUT I’m in the northeast and it would be pretty strange here. We’re known for being a bit frosty for some, and the culture in the south is much different.

    7. The teapots are on fire*

      I think you have to find your own comfort level with this. In my time in northwest Georgia, some men called women honey, women called men or women honey or sweetie, and I’m not clear who used “sugar”, but I used it all the time, especially when I was calling IT to tell them something was broken. It was my way of saying I wasn’t mad, I just wanted the thing fixed. Sort of “It’s not personal, it’s only business.” I don’t think I ever heard men call men “honey”, though, so I can’t deny the sexism.

      I tend to cut people slack if they correct when called out and react harshly to people who double down, but I totally understand if you simply don’t want to work for someone who has to be escorted into this century.

  38. Robert Smith*

    Is there any limit to how much one can encourage former co-workers to apply to your new company? I recently left a job on…not terrible, but not great terms with leadership, but on good terms with most of the others. A few people have reached out to me about jobs at my new company. Is it a huge breach of professional etiquette to encourage them to apply, or even send jobs to people who would be good fits for them?

    I am not a hiring manager for any of these jobs, so I would assume this wouldn’t be soliciting? The former co-workers are generally the ones bringing up the jobs, so I’m not randomly sending job posts to people who are happy at their roles. I do not want to massively breach corporate etiquette.

    1. HonorBox*

      I think it is much less problematic in anyone’s eyes if someone reaches out to you. Maybe someone looks sideways if you’re seen to be “recruiting” even though you don’t have a role in hiring.

      I was having a conversation with a friend similar to this just the other day. They may be leaving their job soon, and wondered if it would be uncool to suggest a current coworker to a company they know to be hiring. I told them I didn’t see that as problematic at all, given that they’re not trying to recruit someone away. They’re simply recommending someone they know to a company who could benefit from the individual’s experience.

    2. NonSolicitationClauses*

      If they reach out to you it should be okay, but not the other way around, That said, if you’re concerned about following the letter of the law, check the wording of your agreement because I have seen agreements that wouldn’t have allowed it.

  39. many bells down*

    Clients at my work keep giving me “thinking of you” cards. I’m not sick. I haven’t been sick. I had a week off on vacation and my ooo message said I was on vacation but ever since I got back people keep leaving me get well sorts of cards?

    1. CTT*

      Huh! Are there any you feel comfortable asking “thanks for the card, but I’m wondering what prompted it?” Maybe whoever was covering for you said something that was misinterpreted?

      1. Ama*

        Yeah this sounds to me like someone said something like “many bells down is out on leave, and won’t be able to respond until they return” or some phrasing that sounded more like a medical issue. But at the same time I don’t see why that would lead to MULTIPLE clients sending actual cards. Do you have any coworkers that actually are out on medical leave? Maybe someone confused the two of you?

        I would definitely ask a client what was up because I’d really want to know if my coworkers were phrasing things in a way that implied I was seriously ill when I was just on vacation.

        1. Laggy Lu*

          This reminds me of when I was new to the working world, and since I was taking a personal day, I put in my out of office that I was on “personal leave.” Cue all the worried emails from colleagues asking if I was OK, asking my boss, etc. Whoops! I didn’t realize “personal leave” was a certain category of PTO that was not the same as taking a personal day.

  40. cactus lady*

    I’m starting grad school this fall! I have not been in school since I graduated from undergrad in the pre-smartphone ’00s. From the “academic integrity” orientation I had to take, it seems things have changed a lot since then….. any tips for going back to school after a long absence? Thanks!

    1. MissGirl*

      I was soooo anxious I couldn’t keep up. I was going from book publishing to getting an MBA with people ten years younger. I got a 4.0 my first semester. I wished I’d relaxed and enjoyed the experience more, but I didn’t know the right amount to press the gas.

      Specific advice is hard to give without knowing the degree. I’m really glad I went to all of the extra stuff like professionals who came in and talked to us. I applied late and didn’t know about opportunities that you had to apply for prior to day 1. Spend time that first week building relationships more so than worrying about classes.

    2. DrSalty*

      For grad school generally – Cs get degrees. Focus more on networking and building a plan for what you’re going to do afterward.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Wow! Things must have really changed since I was in grad school! But I think there’s a big difference between academic and professional post+graduate programs.

        1. DrSalty*

          To be fair, my experience with grad school is in PhD program, where no one cares about your GPA, just about your research and your job-relevant experience.

      2. Rex Libris*

        This. I graduated from my master’s program with a 4.0 and got the same piece of paper everyone else did.

      3. Jamie Starr*

        I think that depends on the program. I got an MA at an Ivy League and we had to maintain at least a B average. But I think if you were only getting Bs, there probably would have been a discussion about your performance. (My program was in the Arts & Sciences School, but very small — only around 20 people were accepted.) But maybe if it’s something like an MBA from a big / not that prestigious program Cs are fine? (I doubt Cs would have been fine at the business school at my alma mater.)

        1. GradeExpectations*

          Same. Anything less than a B+ was effectively failing (science Ph.D. program at an Ivy). I know the business school had extremely high standards grade wise too. FWIW I went to Chicago undergrad and they had the same standard – you had to get a B+ or higher in all classes required by the major to remain a student in good standing within the department.

      4. constant_craving*

        In the vast majority of grad programs I know, anything lower than a B is a fail.

        It is true that GPA doesn’t matter very much, but multiple Cs would mean failing out of the program.

    3. Kesnit*

      I started law school 10 years after getting my BS. Although not universal, it seemed that the students who were going back to school after working did better than those who went straight from undergrad to law school.

      Treat school like your job – because it is. You are used to working all day, so don’t give in to the idea of slacking off because you aren’t in class from 8-5.

      Find a group of fellow students who are about your age.

      Remember that you are not 22 years old any more. Take care of yourself – physically and mentally.

      ENJOY YOURSELF. Yes, school is a lot of work. But it’s also a chance for you to recalibrate yourself. Take classes you want to take, rather than just “well, I need to take an XYZ to fulfill this requirement.”

    4. PivotTime*

      I’ve been there. I got my prior MA degree in 2006 and now I’m in another masters program. I would say, give yourself extra time on class reading and writing papers, at least for the first semester. I was dismayed to find that my ability to pull papers out of thin air from 18 years ago was gone. Everything now takes longer for me, so I have to make sure I have schedule and leave the time I need to get stuff done.

    5. constant_craving*

      This probably varies by field, so it might help to specify.

      In general, I think one of the big switches for me after having been in the workforce a while and then going to grad school is that grad school is for my development and benefit, whereas when employed it’s about getting done what the company needs.

      That doesn’t mean you won’t do things that really only serve to keep your research mentor happy and whatnot, but the overall picture should skew towards what is good for you.

    6. Nosmo King*

      Last year I got my MBA almost exactly 30 years after I got my BA. I have two teenaged kids and I’ve been working for decades, so being in school again was not easy. But! A few things that emerged after my first few classes:
      1. Taking and saving notes and referring to them later is SO much easier with Google Drive and voice-to-text. Having textbooks as PDFs or e-books makes them searchable.
      2. I really enjoyed the ability to check things off lists and rack up accomplishments in my studies in my work life, the work never ends. The structure and calendar of my classes and classwork made me schedule my life efficiently.
      3. EVERYTHING IS GROUP PROJECTS. Idk what your field of study is, maybe it won’t be like that, but argh that was a lot of peopling. Focusing on developing my leadership skills in these group projects helped me get the most of them.

  41. Hungry for lasagna*

    I may have an opportunity to retire early, about 3 years before my original retirement date. If any of the commentariat was lucky enough to experience this, what did you think about besides the financial aspects, in considering your decision to keep working or retire early?

    2. WestsideStory*

      Again (as I said above) if you are in the U.S. investigate your Social Security payment in both scenarios – it doesn’t matter if you think your financials are great: a lot of folks screw themselves later on in life by not waiting till their minimum requirement age.

      As to your main question, the question back is: do you enjoy what you do? Do you enjoy the company you work for? Creative people, especially, never seem to retire, they just adjust their work schedules (part-time, freelance, consulting, etc.) for a better work-life balance.

    3. Whomst*

      Depends on why you’re retiring and what you want your retirement to look like. Can’t speak for personal experience, but my father-in-law retired early and I can give the rationale he gave – he was in a government position and didn’t like the direction the newly elected officials were going to take things, he saw that the financial side worked out for early retirement, his youngest was moving out to college so they were going to be empty nesters, and him and his wife’s parents were both getting elderly and in need of more attention than they could give with him having a career.

    4. Harlowe*

      Access to health care. If you’re too young to start drawing state benefits, what will you use? The marketplace gets expensive quickly, particularly for those of us with chronic ailments.

      1. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

        Marketplace wasn’t particularly expensive for me because I had a relatively low income (SS & pension) that I was receiving. But, I chose poorly the first year as they didn’t cover my preferred PCP or dentist. Second year I chose better on medical, but still poorly on dental as it only covered minor things, not the implant ($4000+) that I required this year.
        Recommend that you have the full Max-deductible/max-out-of-pocket ($6000+) available. I used it up for both years so far in my retirement as I’m waiting to turn 65 for Medicare to start. Cancer diagnosis and surgery at the end of the first year; PET scan and 25 Radiation treatments the second.

  42. Nemo*

    We recently dismissed an employee for stealing huge sums of cash. He is now going on an emotional rampage. He’s sent multiple unhinged messages saying he doesn’t care if we kill him, he’s going to sue us for firing him, have me jailed for breaching his rights and so on. He’s demanded $100k to make this all go away.

    We are getting legal advice – this is not a question about legal issues. But I am struggling with all this emotionally. I want to laugh this off but it’s honestly taking a toll. He’s acting like an angry ex boyfriend trying to elicit some kind of response.

    Lawyers have said not to respond but file all deranged messages. He’s sending these only to me and there isn’t any other employee I can forward to and bypass me (small company, I handle all HR issues). Just the receiving of the messages is stressful.

    Any suggestions of how to cope mentally would be appreciated.

    1. HonorBox*

      Can you set up a rule in your inbox to have all of his messages go directly there? Then you can batch forward them to the lawyers whenever necessary. But you won’t see them in your inbox.

      If that doesn’t work, just pull them from your inbox into a separate file without even opening them.

      I’m sorry you’re going through this.

      1. Nemo*

        It’s not so much the inbox issue but just that this is happening – and I’m handling this in the company – is stressful.

        We have extra security on our premises and so on. All practical stuff is being done. It’s just difficult emotionally.

    2. I strive to Excel*

      If you haven’t set up an email rule to automatically file all of those messages into their own folder – do so! Also talk to your boss & IT about getting assigned a new email and send it out to everyone but the angry employee. Forward any emails that aren’t from the ex-employee from the old one to the new one for a while.

      You could also talk to your company about getting a security consult.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Detach, detach, detach.

      He’s doing this deliberately, as an emotionally manipulative technique. It’s not personal, he does it all the time in every situation.

      Be aware of that. Repeat it to yourself. It doesn’t work if you look at it, say “Welp, here he goes again”, chuckle to yourself and shake your head, and move on.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      Is he sending the messages through email or through text (or some other medium)?

      If it’s email, can you create a folder and a rule so that any emails from [his email address] automatically go to the [Employee Name File] folder? Only check the folder at specific times (ex. Thursday at 11am) or maybe not at all.

      If it’s texts, can you mute his phone number so you don’t see any notifications? And then similar to above, only check messages from him at specific times or not at all.

      Sorry you’re on the receiving end of this :(

    5. MissGirl*

      Just spitballing some ideas. Do you have access to an EAP to talk it over with. Is your manager someone safe to vent to? Can you think of something positive to do every time he reaches out: go for a walk, get a treat, leave early ;)? Have you tried grounding exercises? These can be found online.

    6. FashionablyEvil*

      This sounds so upsetting and scary–I am so sorry you’re going through this! I would call in all your personal reinforcements too. Reach out to your friends and let them know you’re going through some tough stuff at work and can you get together. Find time and space for being outside, getting exercise, cuddling your cat, meditation, etc. It’s not going to make him any less awful or unhinged, but it can help buffer your experience.

    7. MJ*

      Do you have an IT department that can setup a rule / filter to move the messages out of your inbox and forward them to the lawyers at the same time?
      That way you don’t have to see or deal with the emails at all.

    8. Rex Libris*

      What everyone else said. Follow the advice of the Lawyer. If you respond to message 100, all you’ve done is prove to the guy that it takes 99 messages to get a rise out of you. Set an email rule to send everything to a folder, then possibly forward it to the lawyer periodically.

      Think about EAP or a therapist to help cope with the emotional stress. Work out what sort of self care will help you disengage from work during your off hours, and give yourself permission to do it as much as you’d like.

    9. Polly Hedron*

      If you had ever had any doubts about firing him, take comfort in his response being vindication that you were right.

      1. Chauncy Gardener*

        Amen to this!

        And this is all about him and nothing about you. He would be doing this to anyone, and I’m quite sure he has. Maybe try, as many other commenters have said in other posts, to look at him like he’s some kind of strange new life form that you’re investigating as a scientist.
        “My, isn’t he a feisty little thing?” “I wonder how he would respond to chocolate?”

        And I totally agree with trying to get some therapy, if only to just vent about this for a while!
        I’m so very sorry you’re going through this.
        Good luck and I hope he goes away quietly ASAP.

      2. Hatchet*

        So right! So he wants more money from the company he stole money from, and he’ll pinky-promise to stop the harassment and threats if you pay him?!?!?! What an entitled a-hole!!

        I agree with everything the others have said about new email address, etc.
        I can’t imagine how hard it is for you to be the recipient of all of this. Do you have anyone else at your company who is in the loop on all of what’s going on that you can share the mental load with? (Maybe your manager or the company leadership?) Just to be able to take a break during the day and say “OMG, you won’t believe the latest! Right!”

        He’s probably hoping that if he gets to you enough, at some point you’ll respond and it will add fuel to his fire. Don’t give him the satisfaction.

        And in the wise words of Chumbawamba “I get knocked down! But I get up again! You’re never going to keep me down”. It sounds like you’re getting right back up after getting knocked down and this internet stranger thinks you’re awesome for doing that!

    10. Plate of Wings*

      The last paragraph makes me ache for you! I would have trouble holding it together with my blissfully unaware coworkers.

      No real advice but just want to acknowledge how much of a toll this would take on many of us.

    11. Isabel Archer*

      He’s demanding $100k from the company that fired him for stealing large sums of money? What’s the logic on that, exactly?

      All joking aside, his statements are alarming (he “doesn’t care if you kill him”?!). Yes to the email filter and the self care recommendations, but also please be careful. Unhinged can turn into dangerous. Is there any security at your office, like needing a key fob to get in? Cameras on the parking lot? Would you recognize his car? I’m not trying to scare you, but trust your gut and don’t talk yourself out of taking extra precautions.

    12. username required*

      I’m assuming the police are involved if he got fired for stealing money. But can you contact them about his threats – it sounds like he’s almost stalking you. I don’t know if it’s practical but could they talk to him to get him to back off or from a practical standpoint look at your security and tell your company of any improvements they can suggest. Sorry that you’re going through this.

  43. Short Handed*

    Looking for suggestions – I have a low-level manager new hire (internal transfer within the company) starting soon. The candidate interviewed in July and accepted the role, and their normal start date would have been Aug 15 but their current manager requested an extension to Sept 1, which I agreed to. In the meantime some folks went on leave, and with the staffing changes I’m down to just two people remaining on the team, and we’re under quite a strain.

    Today, one week before the start, I received notice the new hire would be out of office just over half of September (10 business days out of 19); 8 days for vacation (out of the country), 2 for medical reasons (and then will have to work remote for 2 weeks after, for a hybrid role). None of this was previously mentioned by the candidate or the manager.

    I’m not going to address the medical side of it at all, but I’m struggling to figure out how to inquire about this vacation in a way that doesn’t sound accusatory. Did the new hire just plan it, and not think to ask me if it was okay? Or has it been planned for a while (I’d assume so, since it’s international trip) and both the new hire and their manager failed to mention it, all while negotiating for an extended start date? I feel the manager took advantage of my good faith effort to be accommodating and I’m questioning the new hire’s professional judgement, especially at a manager level.

    How do I talk to the new hire (and the current manager) about their handling of this without souring the relationship? Or do I just let it go?

    1. Synaptically Unique*

      I don’t see anything useful coming out of addressing this instance. That said, you should definitely keep a really close eye on their work after they start to make sure this is a random one-off instead of an inability to exercise good judgement. And there are so many reasons this could have been last minute (family overseas, sudden opportunity, etc). If you discover they always exhibit questionable judgement, you can move more quickly to either address with counseling or get them gone. Not all promotions work out any more than any other job with a new hire performing different tasks.

    2. NaoNao*

      I’d work backwards here: what would you do depending on the answers?

      Let’s say it was planned and they did take some kind of advantage (worst case). What would you ask them to change/do/adjust etc? Maybe skip the detective work step and go to “let’s talk about getting on the same page about balancing hiring + PTO so soon after hiring–our new hire is going to be out 10 of the next 19 days and then working remotely during a key period of onboarding and on-ramping, and that’s…not ideal.” or similar.

      You could also try an informal “I’m feeling a bit put out and frustrated and I’d just like to understand what lead up to this so we can avoid it in the future if possible. [+ explain the strain it’s putting on your team, the ramp time of the new hire, and so on].”

  44. AnonInThisCity*

    Looking for help managing this situation.

    For 16 years I’ve worked for a company headquartered in City#1, Texas. We can work remotely if our job type allows it (I’m remote), but we are still required to live in City#1 (not legally, just a work requirement). We do in-person events during work hours, such as occasional 2-hour team lunches, regular half-day department town hall meetings with catered breakfast, quarterly all-day division meetings at a rented facility with catered lunch, and so forth.

    This year, for Compassionate Reasons only (no Legal Reasons, unfortunately; they checked), my company gave me permission to move to City#2, North Dakota, with the stipulation that I do not tell my co-workers. I understand. Since we can’t say “required by law” to allow this, and since I do not fall into the category of employees who ARE allowed to work out-of-state, it would be viewed as unfair by many, no matter why the company did it for me. Move was made, payroll withholding adjusted, life is 10000 times easier for me.

    But I didn’t realize how stressful keeping this secret would be.

    I have to remember to check the weather report for City#1 every day, and what activities might be happening there, so I’m prepared for small talk during meetings. I have to remember not to say anything about City#2 (Wow, snow!), or about my personal circumstances, like when I almost said, “How am I? I still have a lot of boxes to unpack!”. For the in-person events, I have to come up with reasons why I can’t attend, that won’t trigger any of my great co-workers to offer actions to help me out (which they’ve done in the past), or schedule a vacation day or sick day as an excuse.

    I hate lying, even by inference, and don’t know how to reconcile myself to this. Alison often recommends ‘pretend different circumstances’, so I’ve tried pretending that I’m undercover (yes, really), but that’s not doing it for me.

    Does anyone else have any experience in navigating a situation like this? A different “pretend” scenario? Any recommendations at all to let me be more comfortable with this?

    1. Kesnit*

      Could you cover the references to boxes/different living situation/etc as that you moved from one part of the city to another? Could you be “traveling for business?”

    2. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      I have no recommendations, but is this a move for a reason with a definite end date to the reason? If it is, would you be returning to City #1 after? Then you can say to yourself, it’s only for a year or it’s only for 2 years. If not, I think the indefinite nature of how long you will need to lie would be extra hard and might be worth revisiting with your manager.

    3. DisneyChannelThis*

      Moving related stuff – You moved from one part of the city to another, isnt your new apartment looking great in the background?

      Dont bother looking up old city events (“oh i must have missed that was happening, I was binge watching netflix all weekend”), thats easily excused

      Do mention new city stuff as “a relative” or “a friend” – My friend told me its snowing today in new state and holy cow can you image that, check out this picture she sent me!

      Don’t get really good at lying and blatantly lying (I did XYZ in old city last night), it will make your managers uneasy if you are good at it.

    4. Plate of Wings*

      Tricky! I would try to cover my in-person absences for at least a few months by telling coworkers that you’re going to have a crazy family schedule (or something) for the next few months and you’re going to miss most or all of the town halls. And you’ll still have to remind them when they forget! But I’m not sure you’ll be “allowed” to tell coworkers you have even this special dispensation from management.

      I would definitely come up with 6 – 8 non-weather small talk lines to have on hand and get on autopilot.

      I would also have a plan for slipping up. Something like “I wasn’t going to mention this because it’s a family situation, but I’m actually working in North Dakota for the week rather than burning through my time off”.

      Good luck, this sounds very annoying!

  45. Synaptically Unique*

    I’ve given job advice over the years to a few internal candidates who requested feedback on their unsuccessful candidacy. I recently hired one of those previous candidates. Then I heard through the grapevine that another one actually followed my advice (some of which was a little extreme and I didn’t know how it would land) to get their current position. Just heard from a third person that they start a new job in two weeks.

    Feeling pretty great about all of the positive feedback because it always feel a little risky providing constructive advice to a failed applicant. Far too often they are offended so I absolutely understand why most hiring managers refuse to say anything (or at least anything useful).

    For anyone in a similar position, my approach has been to focus on resume revisions – disregarding the primary job duties in favor of highlighting the job duties that match up to the job they want; including roles that they have left off because they don’t think they’re relevant (e.g., retail or F&B – bring on the customer service skills!); and tightening up the language. Then I usually have a couple of development suggestions that I may or may not address, depending on how the resume/presentation discussion lands.

    It’s always nice to hear that you’re making a difference in people’s lives.

    1. Cheap ass rolling with it*

      That’s really thoughtful of you. And you made a positive impact on people’s lives!

    2. Plate of Wings*

      Giving this kind of guidance that helps people who want to grow in my career direction is my dream! But I actually hate giving resume help because it’s so much work when a resume is really dense lmao, but I’m going to commit to at least helping in some way, like wording or convention.

      I like to give advice on how to sell yourself in an interview, and get people comfortable with what feels like “bragging”.

      Well done! This must feel great!

      1. Synaptically Unique*

        It really does. So often you feel like you’re screaming into the void. To have three instances of positive feedback in a two-week span was really unexpected.

        I hear you on the resume reworking. But if they don’t get that cleaned up, they don’t get the chance to shine in an interview. And despite all the great advice available, most people don’t understand how to apply it to their specific circumstance. So I usually start with the resume and explain why PCR testing and rodent surgical skills aren’t going to get them an admin job and should be replaced with maintaining detailed records and completing regulatory documents.

  46. Sindirella*

    I posted late last Friday about my loud co-worker discussing the abusive relationship of her granddaughter and how to get her to stop. It was just nice to hear from people saying I wasn’t out of line for finding it inappropriate.
    Well, the situation sort of resolved itself. She came in Monday morning loudly (seriously, this woman does not know what an inside voice is) talking to another coworker about getting into an altercation with this guy and having him sent to jail for the weekend. If you don’t know, sending an abuser to jail isn’t necessarily a happy outcome. They don’t sit there and cool off. It’s like kicking a hornet’s nest, they just come out mad. So now I’m worried about safety concerns, do we need to give security this guy’s picture? Does he know where she works? I’m a worrier, can’t help having these sorts of thoughts.
    So, I’m trying to have a peaceful conversation with my boss, and I can’t even hear her over my coworker crowing about sending this guy to jail for the weekend. My boss got her attention to at least get her to lower her voice, and I admitted to my boss that I found the topic very upsetting, and I needed her to stop bringing this stuff up in the office. She immediately went to the loud co-worker’s supervisor, and I guess it got handled. The loud co-worker has been much quieter this week overall, and the talk about abuse has stopped. The coworker also seems to be pointedly ignoring me, but I don’t need to work with her, so I don’t really care. Peace has been restored to my little cube.

    1. Plate of Wings*

      Good for you! I’m sorry it had to get to this point but it definitely gave you an opening with your boss. I remember your post and I’m glad you took it.

      This would be really difficult to hear about in an office environment for many people, you probably helped someone at the office not be exposed to this potential trigger.

  47. Sharkie*

    There was an awkward situation at work this month I think yall will love!

    There is a person that I work with that doesn’t have the best reputation in the office. They have burned a lot of bridges both in our department and company wide with their behavior. This past month they started to leave the business cards for their new church on people’s desks and in general office spaces. I am sure HR is handling it but this is so weird.

    Have you had a coworker like this. Please tell me your stories!

    1. A perfectly normal-size space bird*

      Not quite work, but I had a thesis advisor who started his own church that was a combination of prosperity gospel and pseudo-magical practice for exorcising demons and witchcraft influences from congregants. He casually dropped links to his livestreams in the class message board. They were…unsettling. The other profs kept their mouths shut because he was the department chair and had a lot of sway with the Dean. For certain reasons involving the ethics board and human research, he left academia the semester after I graduated and became a full-time pastor.

    2. I strive to Excel*

      Had a problem the other way round. We had a person in our church with a reasonable amount of authority start using the church email list as a place to solicit business. This is a big no-no in our diocese for very many ethical reasons. I don’t know the specific details but he was quietly and discreetly shuffled out.

      1. Plate of Wings*

        It’s always surprising to hear about this. Annoying my coworkers? Okay, not great, but I can get a new job. But ticking off my religious community? Not quite so replaceable.

    3. JustaTech*

      I had a coworker I thought was going to be like this. New coworker started in the spring, so had only been around a few weeks when she invited Other Coworker and I to Easter services at her (Evangelical) church.
      Other coworker (who’s brother is a pastor) and I looked at each other with the “oh no, not this” look. Other coworker said “no thank you” and I said “no thank you, I don’t church” (true fact) and … our new coworker never brought it up again.
      Like, she talked about her church in a “I tried out that recipe you recommended at Bible study last night” way, but never again asked anyone to join her. It was so nice, and not at all what I expected.

      1. HoundMom*

        I had a coworker who converted to LDS, married young and had a traditional marriage with many children. My theory – live your life the way that you want and all is well. But, do not tell senior level women they should be home raising their children, drop pamphlets about the LDS church on everyone’s desk, and then give the Book of Mormon to only the females in the office as you are transferring to a different location. The co-leaders of the new office were also members of the LDS Church. It did not go well when he told the female office head that she should not be working but home with her children. He was let go in a month.

    4. Slighly Less Evil Bunny*

      Totally not work related, but last week someone taped business cards for a local alcohol and drug treatment program to all of the mailboxes for my building. It sounded like it was government- or municipality-run, so not an attempt to drum up paying ‘customers’. Just kinda bizarre.

      1. 1LFTW*

        Huh. I can imagine leafleting every mailbox in town as a form of outreach, but taping business cards to every single mailbox seems really weird. Also, a waste of tape.

        1. Wolf*

          Especially for a touchy subject like that, putting it on the outside of the box feels like “we want everyone to see that we think you need this service”.

    5. Irish Teacher.*

      I worked with a woman who was something of a religious obsessive once. She got in a big argument in the staffroom once about The Da Vinci Code which she thought was turning people against Catholicism and when somebody disagreed with her, said sniffily, “well, if you want to take your theology from Dan Brown,” because clearly thinking a work of fiction had the right to exist meant you treated it as a theological dissertation. Or something.

  48. AnonInThisCity*

    Looking for help with this situation.

    For 16 years I’ve worked for a company headquartered in City#1, Texas. We can work remotely if our job type allows it (I’m remote), but we are still required to live in City#1 (not legally, just a work requirement). We do in-person events during work hours, such as occasional 2-hour team lunches, regular half-day department town hall meetings with catered breakfast, quarterly all-day division meetings at a rented facility with catered lunch, and so forth.

    This year, for Compassionate Reasons only (no Legal Reasons, unfortunately; they checked), my company gave me permission to move to City#2, North Dakota, with the stipulation that I do not tell my co-workers. I understand. Since we can’t say “required by law” to allow this, and since I do not fall into the category of employees who ARE allowed to work out-of-state, it would be viewed as unfair by many, no matter why the company did it for me. Move was made, payroll withholding adjusted, life is 10000 times easier for me.

    But I didn’t realize how stressful keeping this secret would be.

    I have to remember to check the weather report for City#1 every day, and what activities might be happening there, so I’m prepared for small talk during meetings. I have to remember not to say anything about City#2 (Wow, snow!), or about my personal circumstances, like when I almost said, “How am I? I still have a lot of boxes to unpack!”. For the in-person events, I have to come up with reasons why I can’t attend, that won’t trigger any of my great co-workers to offer actions to help me out (which they’ve done in the past), or schedule a vacation day or sick day as an excuse.

    I hate lying, even by inference, and don’t know how to reconcile myself to this. Alison often recommends ‘pretend different circumstances’, so I’ve tried pretending that I’m undercover (yes, really), but that’s not doing it for me.

    Does anyone else have any experience in navigating a situation like this? A different “pretend” scenario? Any recommendations at all to let me be more comfortable with this?

    2. NaoNao*

      Maybe pretend you’re temporarily helping out a relative? That might get you through the “hump” of the initial weirdness and then when it stretches out for…basically ever, most people will have forgotten about the initial reason and it’s just “oh, so and so is in ND ‘for now’, I remember, oops!”

      1. DrSalty*

        This is a good suggestion. The less lying you have to do the better. You don’t want to spend time constructing elaborate cover stories. Honestly I’d say the best path forward is talk as little about yourself as possible.

  49. 1 Non Blonde*

    I’ve been in a funk about my job lately, mostly due to management’s unwillingness to do anything about a known problematic (for many reasons) coworker. Last week, it came to a head with me and coworker on a project we were supposed to be teamed up on, and I refused to continuing working with him on said project.

    Because I’m no longer on that project (and, as I’ve recently learned, neither will coworker!), I have some free time, so my boss asked me to look into a small issue for one of our site, and I figured out a solution in less than a day’s time, leading my boss to give me major kudos over this. So, today’s a good day :)

      1. 1 Non Blonde*

        Thank you!!

        I have asked that I not be paired with him for the near future (we’re in an environment where, for larger projects, a team lead gets assigned along with an “assistant” person who doesn’t have enough experience yet to be a team lead). I’m not going to say never, but he said some pretty disrespectful things to me, and that behavior will sting for quite awhile.

  50. Audrey Puffins*

    Just a real quick one – I’m in the UK, working in a fairly low level admin position, and I’ve just had a 6% raise. I feel happy with it but just want to check I’m correct about that. No change in job role or title or anything, just the increase, does this sound above board off the tops of your heads?

    1. WestsideStory*

      Sounds like a merit raise. You are doing a good job and someone has noticed. Raises do not necessarily come with promotions or titles or additional work.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I’m in the US so I don’t know how much my answer will have any bearing on your situation, but:

      I typically receive a 2% to 4% raise every year, not attached to any change in job role or title. So to me it sounds above board and like a raise to be happy about! Congrats!

      1. GythaOgden*

        I’d really like to be in a job where the pay schedules weren’t engraved on stone tablets :(. I work in the NHS as you can see above, and what I do (estates and facilities — keeping hospitals standing upright, in one local case scarily literally) is actually pretty rewarding in itself.

        I’d just…like more money, just like everyone else. I know it all has to come from somewhere, but it is nice to see the extra numbers at the end of the month.

  51. RMNPgirl*

    I’m starting a new job in two weeks. It’s a huge step up in my career and finances so I’m very excited. I will be a director of a department of about 25 with two direct reports (manager/supervisor) who then have everyone else reporting to them. It’s a laboratory setting so remote work is not an option to any of my questions below :)
    My questions to everyone here:
    1. When coming into a new company at a senior management level – what are the things you did that worked well, didn’t work well, and looking back things you wished you’d done?
    2. On the flip side, for people who had a new director come in from outside your company – what are the things they did that you appreciated/liked, that you didn’t like, and things you wish they had done?

    1. NotBatman*

      For #2, I really liked that the new director took the time to go around and meet everyone. During his first week, he made sure to meet with every single person under him (~50 people) and ask them what they’d like the future of the department to be. For the entire rest of his time there, he’d do a general walk-through of the cubicle area 2 – 3 times a week going “Betty! All good?” “Hi Earl, how’s payroll?” etc.

      1. BellaStella*

        His walking around used to be called MBWA. Management by walking around. If done well it helps morale a lot to be noticed and named.

      2. allathian*

        For #2, when our department got an external hire director, she took her time learning how things worked before she made any changes.

        When our org got a new top boss when the former one retired, he visited every regional office (35 nationwide, one or two per week) and shook hands with/otherwuse greeted every employee who was at the office on the day of his visit. I’m at HQ so I see him sometimes anyway, but on our official visit day I shook hands and gave my elevator speech. I felt really seen and like he really wanted to understand what every employee did.

    2. Synaptically Unique*

      1. Had someone explain anything that didn’t make sense to me. Some of the things were legit, some of them were holdovers that had lost their significance, others were never properly vetted and investigation showed they didn’t accomplish their goals in the first place.
      2. She met with everyone directly under her and the next level down to get our perspectives about what was working and what wasn’t. Then she addressed those things within the first 6 months. Garnered tremendous goodwill and credibility.

    3. Kathenus*

      One thing that I’ve found helpful when I’ve come into new management positions is to ask the team to give me some ideas for things that they’d like to do, or like to change, in two categories. First, within current resources – meaning that the current budget/staffing/institutional philosophies/etc. would support them, but that just through past management or such weren’t allowed – this could be something like dress code, flexible hours, work assignments, whatever. The second is blue sky thinking – things that cannot be done now within current resources, but more of a wish list for the future that could be achieved at some point over time. This has helped me in the past come up with some quick and easy wins of things I could control that made people happier, and let me know what some people’s longer term hopes and goals were to see if I could help chip away at getting towards some of these.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      Answering question #2 as I haven’t been in the situation of question 1. The best leadership I’ve had come in from outside the organization has taken the time to do “listening tours” as soon as they came in, to get to know everyone reporting up to them them one on one. Most of the conversations had questions like “what’s good here, what is frustrating or challenging here, what would you like to see the future of your work look like, etc.” and then also some non-invasive small talk to get to know them personally a bit. They also did similar listening tours with parts of the organization that interacted with ours.

      What I loved most in these people was that they came in, really got to understand how things are (or aren’t) working, and then because they weren’t as invested as others were in the status quo, came up with ways of addressing our pain points and improving things that were outside our usual box.

      The only slightly frustrating thing was that one senior management person came on board in the wake of some REALLY difficult stuff that was a serious blow to morale and engagement and actually drove more than one person to look for a new job. She kind of had an attitude of “OK, I know it was bad, but people have to suck it up and get over it.” She did, to her credit, try to improve things and find ways of helping morale that were actually good, but I think people initially felt like their feelings were being dismissed.

  52. JustaTech*

    If I interviewed for a position and then was told that the position was closed unfilled for strategic/budget reasons, but now I see it re-posted, should I reach back out to the internal recruiter/HR person to ask if it’s been opened again and say that I am still interested?
    Or should I just re-apply and say something about my previous interview?

    3. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      The job description number may still be the same when they re-opened it, so if you try to reapply, the system may say “you’ve already applied”. Reaching out to the contact to find out more is your best bet!

  53. Beezus Quimby*

    Please share your tips for coming on as a manager for an established team! I’m in a new role that is very much in line with my experience and expertise, but there is one existing team member who has been doing a lot of the administrative work and seems to not be happy about having someone come in who will take some of that over while also providing substantive relevant experience to existing projects. My new supervisor has indicated that they perceive some tension as well.

    I totally understand this–I actually left my old job right as this was about to be the case for my team and could already feel myself getting territorial even though I knew I was leaving! I have acknowledged the inherent awkwardness to this colleague, but didn’t receive any response about it. For now I’m trying to tread softly, but would love advice, experiences, etc. TIA!

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I don’t think you need to acknowledge the awkwardness — a new manager coming on board is really normal! There may be growing pains in figuring out each other’s working styles, of course.

      I think you need to dig down into what’s making them territorial. Are the admin bits you’re taking over their favourite part of the job? Do you have more experience than them on the projects so it’s making them feel insecure? Do you have *less* experience than them so they’re worried the projects won’t be in good hands? Etc.

      It may also be worth just having a sit down with them about the specific things they work on, what they like/dislike about each thing, how long those things have been on their plate, etc. Maybe in your predecessor’s absence, Task X got dumped on their plate but now they love Task X and are disappointed you’re taking it back over. Do you *need* to take that task over?

      What does your supervisor say about the tension? What have they observed from before you arrived?

  54. Zippity Doodah*

    Advice needed: how do I get supervisors to stop procrastinating giving feedback? Happened maybe half a dozen times in the past few decades. I hand in a rough draft well ahead of the deadline; supervisor either doesn’t respond until just before the deadline or gives minor copy-edits only (“one space after a period”) sometimes for multiple rounds of edits; and then at the last minute tells me to change everything (“I wanted you to write about Tibetan monks, not camelids.”) Early requests for substantive feedback (“OK I’ll fix the spaces after a period, did you have anything related to the content?”) get either no response or a huffy one that everything is important.

    And if there’s no hard deadline sometimes I never get feedback, just radio silence until I suggest “maybe this project isn’t workable and I should instead do X” to which boss concurs.

    Most common for teachers and tenured professors, but also has happened with a tenured boss. Never happens with anyone personally accountable for the quality of work.

    Has this happened to anyone? Is there a solution, besides getting a new job?

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I love a “if I don’t hear back by X date, I’ll assume we’re good to move forward on this.”

      If you have regular offenders, I might touch base with them about how they prefer to review materials — you probably assume that giving them a month to review is a lot, but they might see a month and think “I can put this off for awhile” (which is 100% what I would do). Maybe they work better with less time. Maybe they’d prefer to have a meeting with you to review it together. Maybe something else.

      I’d also be clear about what kind of feedback you’re looking for, especially if it’s not the same every time, e.g. “I’m looking for any feedback on the choice of topic itself” vs “I’m not looking for copy editing changes at this time” etc.

      Though I’d ask: if it’s only happened six times in the past few decades (plural), is it actually that big an issue? It’s definitely annoying when it *does* happen, obviously, but something that happens that infrequently is probably not worth trying to come up with a solution that will prevent it from ever happening.

      1. Zippity Doodah*

        Does anyone know if universities have any legal obligation to grant a degree, if the student has fulfilled all requirements academic and financial? There was a letter on here a while ago about a student whose university didn’t know if she was set to graduate, didn’t answer her calls/emails, and kept fobbing her off into games of telephone pinball. And the comments were full of egregious stories: advisor retired / went on sabbatical, or paperwork got lost by admin, and student’s graduation was delayed / missed and opportunities lost through no fault of student.

        A boss who hires workers and then wanders off when asked to pay them, is committing a crime even if there was no intention of wrongdoing. Is there an equivalent of a labor board one could report a college to?

    2. Antilles*

      First off, having this happen half a dozen times over a “few decades” is completely and totally reasonable. That’s like once every 3-4 years. Sometimes people just get super busy and that’s just life. Especially since supervisors usually do have multiple priorities and sometimes putting you at the bottom is indeed the right call (even if it’s frustrating for you).

      That said, if you do find it happening more frequently, there are basically two methods here:
      1.) Phrase your email in a way that pre-suggests an answer. Okay, so I’m thinking we’ll do X. Let me know by (date) if you have any comments or concerns with this plan. If it gets close to (date) without a response, you can do one reply of “just following up to check if you had any comments” and then if you still get no response, you roll with your plan.
      2.) Give them a more specific deadline. Plenty of people don’t really do well with a vague “when you get to it” timeline (there’s always another project), but will meet specific dates if you provide them. Also, build some float room in this deadline. The client may need the report by end of September, but that is *not* the deadline for comments, your deadline for comments should actually be a couple weeks earlier to allow for last minute changes, back-and-forth, or etc.

    3. Charley*

      May not be feasible in your case, but the only 100% reliable way I’ve found to get feedback from my faculty is to bring whatever I want looked at to a meeting and literally sit there staring at them while they mark it up.

    4. ReviewThis*

      I had a job where feedback was important where I ended up scheduling review meetings after it was clear sending stuff out with deadlines and reminders didn’t work. I’d try that if getting feedback/corrections is important. If it’s not (for instance, you’re pretty confident the content is accurate) then telling folks not replying by the deadline constitutes approval should be fine.

      Good luck!

  55. A perfectly normal-size space bird*

    More from the dysfunctional flea market where I used to work as an underpaid clerk (first three posts linked at the end).

    The Tale of Bearnice

    I mentioned before that the owner would drop off random stuff in the middle of the night to sell in the flea market, usually with no note. It could be everything from furniture to taxidermy (this is why we at first didn’t think there was anything weird about a mountain lion showing up). One day, we came in to work to find a taxidermy grizzly bear in the middle of the entrance.

    This grizzly was in the traditional pose of rearing up on hind legs with its front legs outstretched. It was that kind of pose that’s supposed to make it look fearsome, like whoever killed it was facing off against a more powerful force of nature. However, this particular bear was on the small side and its taxidermist didn’t quite get the pose right. Instead of rearing up and snarling for a fearsome attack, its legs were daintily planted and front legs outstretched like it wanted a hug. Added to that, its jaw was closed, its head tilted, and someone had gone a little heavy on the eyebrows. The end result was that this apex predator looked like a worried grandma reaching out to hug her grandbabies.

    The manager fell completely in love with this grizzly and refused to put her up for sale. She said she felt a kinship and just knew if she was a bear, they would be best friends. So the bear was named Bearnice and became our store mascot.

    The manager was offended that Bearnice was naked, so she whipped out her sewing machine and created a custom wardrobe for Bearnice. There was a rotating array of clothing of all styles and occasions, plus accessories. Bearnice had seasonal-appropriate outfits and holiday-themed clothing.

    And thus, part of my morning routine redressing a taxidermy bear according to weather, season, and “Bearnice’s mood” as interpreted by my manager, her best human friend.

    Bearnice’s most memorable outfits:

    1) 1950s style floral belted dress with white gloves, a string of pearls, matching pearl earrings, and the most amazing flower-covered Easter hat
    2) 1970s style plaid pantsuit with flared legs, wide lapels, chunky costume jewelry, and a shimmery gold satin headband-scarf-thing
    3) Full on Mrs. Claus outfit with white fur trim and a tray of cookies balanced on her front paws
    4) Audrey Hepburn in Breakfast at Tiffany’s, complete with wig and long cigarette holder
    5) Ornate wedding gown that was a near perfect copy of the 1990s Bob Mackie Empress Bride Barbie
    6) Rhinestone cowgirl shirt and jeans, complete with colorful boots, cowboy hat, lasso, and taxidermy pet wolf (temporarily poached from another vendor with a sequined collar and leash put on it)
    7) Sci-fi themed space suit made out of silver lame and a converted welding helmet

    There were so many more. SO MANY. I regret not grabbing a disposable camera to get some pictures (this was in the era of Nokia bricks) because Bearnice was an absolute treasure and dressing her was the highlight of my mornings.

    The owner would occasionally push the manager to put Bearnice for sale, but the manager refused and the owner was too intimidated by her to push too hard. Though I left long before the flea market shut down, I heard when the manager retired, she took Bearnice with her. I hope the two of them continue to dress up together.

    —

    Animal stories:
    https://www.askamanager.org/2024/08/lets-discuss-animals-at-work.html#comment-4815994

    Haunted Spoons:
    https://www.askamanager.org/2024/08/open-thread-august-9-2024.html#comment-4817527

    The Mysterious Crates:
    https://www.askamanager.org/2024/08/open-thread-august-16-2024.html#comment-4825634

    2. I strive to Excel*

      I am *also* regretting your lack of camera because I would be begging you for pictures on my bended knees.

      1. Anonymous cat*

        I was hoping for photos so badly! Imagine a Bearnice photo album!

        And I love that she took Bearnice home. That’s so cute!

    3. Watry*

      I really love this. At my last job, we had a pair of smallish Halloween skeletons that also had a rotating wardrobe (mostly made of baby clothes, no handmades here!).

    4. MissGirl*

      I’m reading from the bottom up and all I could think was that Bernice is quite a character. I laughed when I realized she was a bear.

  56. NotBatman*

    Does anyone else have the experience of only realizing *how* toxic a toxic job was when forced to look back? I was asked to dust off a set of training videos I made in 2020 — watching now, holy hell do I feel for the person I was back then.

    I knew then that I was doing 2+ jobs for the price of (less than) 1. But now I can hear the burnout in my own voice, and I’m getting flashbacks to all those 14-hour days. It’s only now that I’m realizing just how bad it was then. Anyone else have this kind of experience?

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      Not quite the same thing but I had a work experience job at college and looking back…yeah, workplace norms there were…not normal. My manager was a compulsive liar who also had days when she was really hyper (to the point you couldn’t get any work done if she was in the room because you could be discussing something work related with a colleague and she’d start shouting nonsense over you; one example was that a colleague was telling me to tell somebody when he was available and I could barely hear the times he was saying as she started shouting over him to tell this person their mother was getting married and ask him if he wanted to go to the wedding – their mother was not getting married, needless to say) and other times when she was in a really bad mood and whatever you did would be wrong. The latter was rare – maybe 3 or 4 days in the year I worked there.

      She also tended to undermine us. We were working with kids and one example was that another member of staff had told off one of the kids for something and she told the kid, “oh, don’t mind him. He probably had a fight with his girlfriend and is just in a bad mood.” I don’t remember what the kid was told off for, but my memory of it is that the telling-off was deserved.

      There was another member of staff who was basically a Del Boy kind of character and would offer to get you anything you needed. Once somebody said they’d like to have a dog and he said, “oh, I’ll get you a dog.” Somebody said he had some video before the film had even come out in the cinemas (in Ireland; I think it was in the cinema in the US at the time, but the video had certainly not been released).

      We were supposed to finish work at 10pm, but we rarely finished before 11pm and this was taken as normal.

      I was only 19/20 when I worked there and everybody else seemed to take it all as normal, so I assumed it was. It’s only looking back that I can see how kinda chaotic the whole place was.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Definitely!! I worked for ~6 years for a department where I thought I had a personality mis-match with the dept head; I left because I was passed over twice for lateral-ish promotions, so I felt like the business made their feelings about me clear. I had been in therapy for most of that time, thought I was struggling with the transition from school to work but I was just so miserable. Only having worked away from that situation for YEARS do I realize how toxic it all was. It wasn’t my personality, it was my boss. My current boss actually commented about that job and wondered if it was tough to work for that boss, because they had met at a community event and she was… chilly. Now that you say that, YEAH SHE WAS. I realized I’m a person who just is in it and grinds as much as I can, and just can’t see it (frog in the pot, or whatever) – this info is really good to carry forward with me, I think.

      1. NotBatman*

        Frog in the pot is a good comparison. The toxicity creeps up so that you find yourself adjusting to the bananacrackers norms before you know it.

    3. MissGirl*

      One of these days I need to tell the story of my roommate’s company. Long story short, a year after she was “laid off,” her boss was arrested for running a Ponzi scheme. Suddenly so much made sense.

    4. PivotTime*

      I left my position earlier this year after several years of dealing with a kind but cowardly supervisor who let my other coworkers not do their jobs (or be absent so much) that I was constantly doing two people’s work. After I left, the constant stomach issues I had went away and my severe case of rosacea mellowed significantly. I slept better and didn’t react with anger so quickly anymore because I wasn’t constantly overwhelmed. People remarked that I seemed happy, and said they hadn’t seen me like that for years. I pushed through because the benefits were good and the name brand of the place got respect, but it was slowly killing me. As someone else said the frog in the pot metaphor is accurate. I had to get out to see that.

    5. Ama*

      When I was preparing to leave my job of 11 years recently (I went freelance in mid-June), I found an old journal from 2018 and was shocked at how many of the reasons I ultimately left my job were already bothering me back then. If you’d asked me to recall it from memory I could have told you there were a couple things that had been issues for a while, but some of the things that I would have said were recent, straw-that-broke-the-camel’s-back type issue I was already feeling way back then.

      I don’t really regret staying because the job I now do I didn’t even know existed back in 2018, but reading that journal entry really made me realize how long I had been unhappy.

    6. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      In the 1980s, I got a job as a sales assistant at a stock brokerage firm. During my interviews, I was told by the employment agency guy, the branch manager, the office manager, my prospective boss (a stockbroker), and a prospective co-worker that experience working at a stock brokerage firm was not necessary. In fact, the prospective co-worker told me that he would be in charge of training me.

      I spent Monday, my first day of work, at the firm’s headquarters, a few miles away from the branch office where I would be working, for orientation, fingerprinting, and a physical examination. Those of us in the orientation class were told that payday was every two weeks, and that checks were issued on Thursdays but dated on Fridays, and that this coming Thursday was a payday, and we would all receive paychecks on Thursday.
      The co-worker who said that he would train me? He never did. I found out from other employees that he didn’t train me because he was afraid that if I became good at my job, he would be fired, because I would be expected to take over his job (in addition to doing mine). I was constantly screamed at by my supervisor, the office manager, and the branch manager for not doing my job well enough. Yes, the three of them knew that my co-worker wasn’t training me. They just didn’t care.

      On Thursday, there wasn’t a paycheck for me. The branch manager said that he would give me a check the next day for what he estimated would be my net pay, and everything would eventually be worked out with the payroll dept. Okay, but he didn’t give me the check until 4:50 PM, so I had to wait until Monday to deposit it.

      Two weeks later, there still wasn’t a paycheck for me. The branch manager tried telling me that it took a month to get on the payroll, but I said that that wasn’t true, because we were told at orientation that we would be getting a paycheck three days later. He said that he would give me a check the following day, but I insisted that I wanted it NOW. I said that he could date the check the following day, and I would wait until the following day to deposit it (meaning that I wouldn’t immediately run out of the office to a bank and attempt to deposit a post-dated check), but he said that he couldn’t give me a post-dated check. I told him that two weeks ago, he gave me a check at 4:50 PM (he acknowledged it and said that it was a mistake), and I had to wait until Monday to deposit it, but this coming Monday would be Labor Day, and I didn’t want to have to wait until Tuesday to go to the bank, and I wanted the check NOW. He finally gave me a check.

      I got a BIG paycheck two weeks later, It seemed that payroll had no idea that I had already been for my first three weeks, and they gave me a check for five weeks salary. At least I was allowed to keep the check. I was told that things would be sorted out with payroll.

      They constantly screamed at me for not doing my job as well as they hoped I would, and the branch manager and office manager started telling me every day that I should look for another job, because things weren’t working out. Then one day, the branch manager said that he had created a new job for me – I would be his secretary and the office floater. I was thrilled. A couple of weeks later, he said that I had to start looking for a new job, because headquarters refused to authorize my new position. I continued to work at that new position while job-hunting, and I continued to get paid.

      Finally, after I had been there for four months, I found a new job and gave two weeks notice. I told the branch manager, “I told my new company how horrible you all were to me, and they wanted me to ask you if I can quit now and start working for them right away. So can I quit now?” To my surprise, the branch manager said that he wanted me to stay on those two additional weeks. (Even though headquarters supposedly had said that they couldn’t authorize my job.) I pouted and said, “Oh, okay” and called my new company and said that I would be there in two weeks.

      To my surprise, I found out during my final two weeks that the branch manager and office manager were actually unhappy about my quitting, because, as I had been working there for over three months, they owed the employment agency a full commission.

      It wasn’t until many years later that I figured out that a company had to be really toxic in order to hire someone and promise training and then withhold the training, and then scream non-stop because the new employee didn’t have the training, and then tell that employee over and over and over to find a job elsewhere, and then create a new job and then take it back, saying that headquarters wouldn’t authorize it (but why did headquarters keep paying me, if my job wasn’t authorized?), and then to get angry when the employee finally found a job (because the company didn’t get its money’s worth by giving a full commission to an employment agency when the employee stayed there only four and a half months). To say nothing about how the payroll dept. screwed up my paychecks. I have no idea if I was the only one they screwed up, or if they screwed up everyone in my orientation class.

    7. Wolf*

      I thought I had beeen a terrible failure at that job. A year later, a former coworker told me they replaced me with 3 full time employees… so I guess it wasn’t just me struggling with that work load.

  57. Twitchy*

    For some reason, my upper body/arm will tend to jerk or twitch. I can’t control it. I never bothered to look into why it happens since it doesn’t really bother me personally. But it is definitely noticeable and people have tried to call an ambulance or panic because they think I’m having a seizure (99% of the time I am awake and conscious when this happens). I understand why people are worried about me but I never really know what to say/do when people get concerned. Any advice?

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      I’d just say something like “oh, don’t worry. My arm just does this sometimes. I’m fine.”

      I do think it’s odd for people to try and call and ambulance without asking you if you need one first, when you are awake and conscious. I can’t imagine assuming somebody needed an ambulance when they were continuing to behave completely normally and treated the incident as completely unremarkable.

      1. Twitchy*

        One memorable time I can think of, a classmate felt too embarrassed to ask me if I was okay but after he gave me a few weird looks, I figured out he was concerned. I explained the twitching to him. Then he told me that it’s a good thing I told him bc he was debating calling an ambulance

    2. Whomst*

      “Oh, that’s a symptom of a medical thing I’ve got under control, no need to worry about it.”
      I would recommend getting it checked by a medical professional though so this isn’t a lie. If it’s twitchy to the point people think you’re having a seizure, I think it deserves a look.

      1. Twitchy*

        When I asked my doctor about it, he told me that unless I just wanted a diagnosis that it’s not really anything to be worried about. To be clear, the medical professionals don’t think it looks like a seizure. It just apparently looks like that to everyone else

    3. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

      If it were me, I’d 1. bring it up to my primary care doctor to make sure it isn’t something that needs to be looked into more seriously; plenty of symptoms aren’t bothersome in themselves can be signs of something serious, just as plenty of symptoms that seem alarming are nothing to worry about. I’d want the expert opinion in my back pocket so I could be quite confident when I, 2. warmly and firmly tell concerned people that this is just something my body does involuntarily, and (optional: my doctor confirmed) it is nothing to to be concerned about, thank you.

        1. Twitchy*

          I should’ve clarified that my primary care doctor told me that it’s not concerning. Most of the doctors/nurses/other medical professionals who I know don’t freak out. It’s just coworkers, classmates, and professors who get worried very quickly

    4. Ama*

      I think you can just say “oh I get these sudden muscle spasms sometimes, my doctors have told me it’s nothing I need to worry about.” I think if you make it clear you know what it is and aren’t worried people will calm down.

  58. anonymous academic*

    How do you reach out to someone in another department who asked you for a consultation on a project but then blows you off? The project is not my responsiblity but I want to maintain a good working relationship without making them feel pressured.

    In the before times I would make a phone call, but nobody really does that anymore. This is so awkward over email.

    1. mreasy*

      “Let me know if you’re still looking for help on this or if plans have changed – getting my ducks in a row for the next few weeks and want to make sure you have the time if you need it” or something along those lines? People are disorganized so this may reignite or remind them they forgot to tell you it’s off.

    2. NotBatman*

      I might be old-fashioned, but I find a time to catch them in person no matter what it takes. I once hung out outside the office of a coworker I needed to catch for 30+ minutes until he showed up. When he did, I was like “sorry to interrupt, but I had a time-sensitive question. Would you be able to meet for 5 minutes at some point today?” I’ve done the same thing to coworkers in the lunch room and hallways as well. As long as you’re polite about it, people basically never brush you off in person.

      1. Antilles*

        Wait, what? Standing outside the office of someone for 30 minutes? When it’s not even my project and I’m not even the one trying to make the meeting happen???
        Absolutely not.
        If someone in another department is asking for my help on your project, there’s no way I’m doing that. I’ll send you a polite reminder email a’la mreasy’s suggestion (which is as much for my benefit as yours) but that’s the limit to my obligation here. Because really, if you can’t even be arsed to spend 60 seconds cranking out a one-sentence reply to my email, clearly my input isn’t *that* important to you.

        1. HSE Compliance*

          Yeah, if you’re standing outside my office for 30+ minutes wanting to tell me that you need 5 minutes from me sometime today, I’m going to assume that you want it right now. Which is annoying. Standing there awkwardly, likely interrupting whatever else I’m working on is….not a good method. And, for some types of work, is going to annoy the person even more because now it’s a “are you trying to listen to something you shouldn’t” thing.

          Send the email if it’s not your project, throw a 15 minute meeting request on their calendar if it’s your project, and only go stand outside their office if it’s literally that critical (i.e., I need a wet ink signature on this compliance report and I know said person is travelling for 4 weeks starting tomorrow, over the due date of the report, and they are the only person authorized to sign).

          (As a side note, this kind of thing is *exactly* why I put an indicator on my office door of “do not interrupt” or “knock but come on in” and locked my door during things I could not be interrupted for. I’m on a call with OSHA. I’m going to be here for an hour, as noted on my public calendar. Don’t fester outside my door miming and trying to convey whatever it is you want.)

          1. anonymous academic*

            Thanks, we are hybrid so in person is not always an option,but also something I did in the before times.

  59. executive ~anxiety~*

    Would love to get feedback on how I handled this interview situation.

    Background is that as of July 1, I received a title change (Executive Assistant –> Director of Administration/Operations). Functionally, my job didn’t change much– I actually took on additional EA duties for another org leader. The change reflects the duties I do at this *specific* org that aren’t as much just supporting the Head, though traditional EA work is my professional background.

    Before July 1, I had applied for a new EA job. My gut feeling reading the job description was that they wanted a pretty traditional EA, which again, I do have that experience. At the time I applied my resume only had listed up to the EA position at my current org, it didn’t reflect my new title. A few weeks later, I heard back from the company, and after a screener was invited to interview on campus.

    I never mentioned my title change in the interviews, because like I said, it was more of a title change than any kind of functional one. My gut thought turned out to be true– they were looking for a more traditional butt-in-seat EA, and I didn’t want to count myself out by saying I no longer am one. I wondered at the time if I should have used it as a “pro”, like, “in fact, I was so efficient at this work that I was promoted to this title reporting to 2 Heads” but I didn’t find a good way to bring it up. But after the interview, I noticed that someone from the org found me on LinkedIn, which does show that new title.

    Over a week has passed since the date they told me they would be reaching out to finalists, so I’ve assumed I’m out of the running, which is fine. I know there could be a thousand reasons why I wasn’t their choice, but I’m worried that they saw the title change on LinkedIn and wondered why I didn’t mention that I “wasn’t” an EA anymore. Do I seem fishy or flaky that I didn’t mention it? I’ll likely be continuing to apply for EA jobs in the future and my resume is more up to date now, so hopefully it’s a nonissue moving forward but this has just been bugging me in the back of my mind.

    1. mreasy*

      This doesn’t seem flaky or weird at all. You weren’t misrepresenting your role or your experience when you applied.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Probably they parsed out that you are an EA+ and they only need (or want to pay for, or train, or whatever) someone with more basic skills. Sometimes we don’t get the job because we don’t have the skills, sometimes we don’t get the job because our skills are too big! Congrats on the upgrade :)

  60. CrabBearSupreme*

    Part-time software development work: is it only possible after working full-time for a couple years to establish yourself?

    We’re looking at an interstate move for my husband’s work in the next year, and we’re also have a baby and would like to have more soon. I was able to negotiate a reduced schedule for my health and sanity at my current job, which I have worked at full-time for a number of years and established a good reputation. This move would necessitate getting a new job, and I’ve been loosely looking around so I have an idea of what I could expect when the move comes and I need a new job. From what I can tell, I need to switch careers to find a part-time gig, bite the bullet and work full-time, or just bail out altogether and be a stay-at-home-mom offering babysitting services on Facebook. Am I just not looking in the right places?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Are you ok with shifting focus slightly? Can you do QA or content implementation/management? I’ve worked for several companies that were perfectly fine with part-timers in those roles.

      1. CrabBearSupreme*

        I’m not strongly opposed to it, but it seems to be more in line with the “change careers” option than anything else. It’s adjacent enough I probably wouldn’t have a horrible time going back to dev work, but I can’t see how it would keep my development skills up-to-date.

    2. PartTime*

      Sorry. I’ve never seen part time dev jobs. I have infrequently seen part time customer support for developer oriented products (a database or IDE or programming tool) which might keep some skills current but wouldn’t involve directly writing code. I have also very infrequently seen part time contract work for things like business analysts (writing specs) or technical blog writers (writing about technical topics/programming/dev processes/etc).

      All of this said, you just need to find one.

      Good luck.

  61. Anonregret*

    I accepted a new job and today is my last day, and I keep feeling worried I’ve made a mistake.

    When I look at it objectively I can see this is the right move for me – I have survived multiple layoffs at this company and still don’t feel like the organization as a whole respects the work I do – but my current boss is one of the best I have ever had. Everyone even has been so supportive in my leaving and has only said kind things to me and even threw me a goodbye party.

    The new opportunity is a step up in title and responsibility and it’s doing a type of work that I love doing but have never had the opportunity to do full-time, plus the organization and industry is much more stable. I also really like the hiring manager and all the team members I met during the interview process, I got more and more excited about the role and organization the more people I met.

    I don’t really know what I’m asking for here but how do I convince myself I am not making a mistake? I wish I could turn my brain off.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think this is really common when you’re starting a new job. There’s always a feeling of “what if this was a TERRIBLE MISTAKE.” But I don’t think there’s much to do about that except try to focus on why you took the job in the first place.

    2. Laggy Lu*

      Change is scary! It’s normal to be nervous, but based on what you wrote here, it sounds like you made a really good decision.

    3. MissGirl*

      I got through this by reminding myself that there is risk in leaving but there is also risk in staying. Also, remember even if this new position doesn’t pan out the way you expected, you can handle it.

      I left a good job for a “better” job and they had layoffs four weeks later. I lasted six months. My old job had a hiring freeze by then due to layoffs, which is why I’d left. I eventually found a great job though not after a scary few months.

      While the second job didn’t work, I still was right that it was time to leave.

      No matter what you choose, there is risk. You got this!

    4. Isabel Archer*

      Two thoughts:
      1. This sounds like classic “buyer’s remorse.” It will pass.
      2. If no part of you wanted to leave OldJob, you wouldn’t have applied for NewJob. Trust yourself.

  62. ThreatenedAtWork*

    We had a high-up person in our org quit recently. She had become really burned out towards the end, but did refused all help, and then got mad no one helped. After she resigned, I committed the crime of working with our boss to make a plan for the org, and she got mad at me. On her way out, she threatened the company and some of us personally, myself included, with professional ruin. She has now been elected to the board of a local professional org. I’m in a different profession, but our professions interact and overlap. I’m trying to determine if there is anything I can do to mitigate any possible damage. My rep is very solid (I won an industry award last year) but I still have some concerns. Her conduct on her way out was horrid and unprofessional. Maybe she’s in a better place now and will forget the threats, but I’m still concerned. Thoughts? Any thing I can do?

    1. WantonSeedStitch*

      Hmm. Is there any volunteer opportunity with the professional organization that wouldn’t put you in contact with this person? Say she’s in charge of the membership committee but there’s a programming committee that doesn’t have much to do with her directly. You could volunteer with the programming committee and establish a good reputation with whatever board member chairs that, so there will be someone else high up in the professional organization who knows you and values your work.

      1. ThreatenedAtWork*

        We aren’t in the same profession, but we overlap. So I’m not part of her professional org.

    2. Generic Name*

      In my experience, when people are this unhinged, people notice. It sounds like you have a solid reputation and are respected. Maybe prepare a script in case anyone asks about her departure. But otherwise, I wouldn’t worry about it at all.

  63. Aoki*

    I could use some cover letter advice.

    I am used to having a pretty good response rate to job applications I submit. The last time I searched about four years ago, I got replies to about 80% of my applications. I got multiple interviews quickly and an offer within two months. Recently, I took a break–about 18 months–from working full time to care for my sister through a long illness and at the end of her life, and since then, I’ve had zero interviews or any response to applications, even to roles that are very strong fits. The job I had right before this laid me off after only nine months, and that was when I decided to take a break because my sister’s illness had escalated, and she and her young daughter needed me.

    But because the gap and the layoff aren’t explained anywhere, I think it looks bad. Between that and being older (50), I think it will be tough to find something if I don’t give some context.

    So, I recently decided to address the gap in my cover letter with a single sentence about taking time off to care for a relative at the end of their life. But I asked my husband to read it, and he thinks I shouldn’t mention it since I have a few short consulting gigs during that period. He says I should play those up and downplay the work break. He works in a corporate job; I work in nonprofits. I would love to hear what others think.

    1. MsM*

      I’d frame it more as taking a step back from full-time work to focus on caretaking responsibilities, and being ready and eager to jump back in.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      The market is quite different at the moment and it may not be the gap causing the issue (or not it alone). I don’t have a gap and have applied to roles where I meet all the requirements, including nice to haves, and don’t get even an initial interview. I’ve heard similar from other people job searching at the moment.

      I agree with playing up the gigs, but I think it’s worth making a passing mention of the break. However, I wouldn’t mention end of life care and I’d focus more on why you’re looking to return to work.

      I’m sorry for your loss!

    3. MissGirl*

      The market is really really different right now for a lot of industries. Your response rate may not be about you. The competition is fierce. I did a job hunt in fall 2022 and another in summer 2023 due to layoffs. It had changed significantly in that short of time.

      Does it look like you had a gap or does the consulting gigs fill it? Can you share the line?

    4. Educator*

      I hire for a nonprofit. Gaps are not a big deal anymore. I rarely see resumes without them. Between the pandemic and what happened with the tech industry and the childcare crisis, many, many people have taken time off.

      But we also get so many applications now that it is totally overwhelming. It’s just competitive. Make sure your resume really shines, because I don’t even have time to read cover letters if the resume is not strong.

      And network. That’s how most people are getting out of the giant pile.

    6. EA*

      I kinda agree with your husband. In my corner of the nonprofit world, it’s pretty common for people to do some short-term consulting when they want more flexibility. Plus – you actually were working (and thus continuing to use/develop skills, which is usually the concern with longer gaps)! Just not working full time, which is totally understandable.

  64. Lily Rowan*

    My task for this afternoon is to write my goals for the year. I have a lot going on outside of work this year, so my actual goal is just to continue doing a very good job and not really stretch too much! I have some sense of what to put down, but I’m pretty seriously considering being 100% honest with my manager. I *think* she would be fine with it, but how big a risk is that?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      Well, if I was your manager, I’d be fine with it. I think one way to frame this is by taking things that you know you have to do and use those as goals. As much as possible, I try to make my goals things I was planning to do anyway.

    2. Whomst*

      Just put the emphasis on “continue to do well in X” rather than “not stretch too much”, and I think it’s fine. The framing I’ve used with my bosses is “risk management” – with everything that’s going on in my personal life, overexerting myself and burning out is a real risk so my goal is to be consistent and continue performing X and Y at my previously established performance level. But you’ve got to have a good manager and be currently performing well for that to go over.

    4. Friday Me*

      We call this staying the course :) We need recognize that there are some people who want to keep doing what they are and do it well, and that should be ok. I would pick one smallish area that you know you could improve to focus on.

      For instance, “My goal is to continue performing at my current level and adding a few Excel skills to make my reporting more efficient.”

      1. Lily Rowan*

        I actually said I would getting better at tracking this one thing, and then spent the afternoon on that task :) (our FY started 7/1)

  65. Busy Middle Manager*

    Curious what others think. At this point you have nothing to lose, so maybe add in “had been dealing with caregiver responsibilities” as an experiment.

    But I did want to add/remind you, the job market outside of a few fields is atrocious. I follow the jobs reports closely since it’s help with managing my money and a lot of fields including mine have seen declines.

    You can use the BLS report to gauge what job growth is like in your field to see if it’s a “you” or “them” issue. Very well may not be you. For example in June, the report says “Job openings increased in accommodation and food services (+120,000) and in state and local government, excluding education (+94,000). The number of job openings decreased in durable goods manufacturing (-88,000) and in federal government (-62,000).” Which continues the trend of jobs not being in either of our fields.

    You can google BLS “Job openings, hires, and total separations by industry, seasonally adjusted”

  66. Anon University Librarian*

    So, I have a person who works in a different uni department with offices in my building and keeps going to people other than me to ask questions. My staff are redirecting her to me, but she’s not coming to me. I have told them to keep doing that, but in the mean time, is there anything I can do to help convince her that I am the person she should be asking about these things? I don’t love my staff’s time being wasted by this and frankly, this is a politically dicey situation where there’s a very careful needle that needs to be threaded. I love my staff, but they aren’t aware of all the nuances of the situation. So, I don’t want them giving answers that might unintentionally cause issues.

    1. HonorBox*

      Can you speak directly to the person in question and tell them, not ask them, to come to you directly? Head the situation off at the pass and make sure there’s clarity in the directive. And if it continues to happen, you could either go to their supervisor and let them know you’ve been direct and don’t want them going to your staff OR just stop answering questions unless they’re asked of you specifically.

    2. Ama*

      Do you often have to give her answers she doesn’t really want to hear? When I worked in academic administration I had to deal with a few people who were notorious for “shopping around” among the admin staff to try to get the answer they wanted. One person would even go ask my coworker, get told no and then come to me to tell me coworker had told her yes (it got to the point that the moment she left either of our desks we’d call the other person and say “Jane is coming your way — I just told her no she can’t charge her house slippers to her research budget.”)

      Does she actually come to you after the staff redirect her or does she just keep trying to ask the staff? If she does eventually show up at your desk you could say something like “You know you can come straight to me with these questions, the staff really can’t help with these.” If she never shows up ever, that’s going to be a little trickier because for whatever reason she seems to be trying to avoid you.

  67. Hello!*

    A few years ago I started a small business, online, local, networking group. It has been a huge success in our little town. I have become friends on a personal level, with a store owner (SO) I shop at frequently. SO’s competitor (C) is also in the group. I have worked with C but on a more professional level. I started a fun game where basically the weekly prize is the winning small business gets to advertise for free and have a profile done on them. Should I give SO a heads up that C may win eventually and vice versa. I know classic case of I need to put a border between personal and professional relationships. Both SO and C know each are in the group.

    1. Cordelia*

      I don’t understand why you think they need a heads up. If I was in a business networking group that I knew my competitors were also in, and there was a weekly game where the winner got free advertising, it would be obvious to me that my competitor might win one day.

  68. Sad and alone*

    Hello hello
    I’m struggling with feeling unvalued and a little disrespected by something that happened at work recently.

    A little over a month ago my manager suggested I apply for a role on a team he leads. My current job is basically “generic engineer”, and this new job would be more specialized. They’ve been trying to find someone to fill it for well over 6 months now.

    Its not a role I have direct experience in, but I do have some relevant work from grad school, and it’s an area I’m interested in. So I did end up applying.

    I did the full application process, including a rather difficult technical exercise and an interview. At no point was any of this treated like it was a sure thing for me to get this role.

    Well, I did great, and they offered me the position at the exact same salary I make now.

    I asked to negotiate, and basically got 10 minutes of HR saying “oh we just want to see this as a lateral move, not a promotion.”
    or “We thought this would be a good lateral move to put you in a role you’re more interested in.”

    This is a role that would mean 24/7 slack pings, a need to be online in a crisis, it’s more difficult work, it’s hard to find people who can do it. but nothing.

    There was absolutely *no* wiggle room, no change, no compromise. I tried for alternatives like more vacation days and got absolutely nothing.

    I decided to take the job anyway, because it’s probably the closest I’ll get at this company to something that looks like a promotion on my resumé. And today, my manager (who I know was directly involved in salary determinations) messages me to tell me how glad he is I’ll be joining that team.

    and I’m furious.
    I’m hurt
    I feel like it’s an outright lie, and like I can’t believe anything this company says.

    Of course, I’m already looking at new jobs, and hopefully something will pan out. But in the meantime, can anyone tell me how normal this is? I feel like it’s not right, but maybe my sense of normalcy is incorrect. and also, any advice for how to get through the hurt/angst I’m feeling?

    1. Rex Libris*

      More specialized vs. more generalized is not necessarily an automatic promotion. Can you find out how the job was ranked for previous employees? The question is whether it really was a lateral move, or whether they lowballed you.

      Try to take a step back and look at it objectively. Did they say or imply it would be an increase in salary? Did your manager emphasize more rank and pay, or more interesting work? Is there any way it could have been honest miscommunication, or an assumption on your part that they weren’t making on their end?

      If it was clearly presented as a promotion with a salary increase and they didn’t deliver on that, you now know everything you need to know to look for a new job without any misgivings, and also exactly how much you can trust them.

      1. Sad and alone*

        Sorry I should’ve included this
        My take on the position from the get go was that it wasn’t a promotion, but it also wasn’t lateral

        It’s a very different type of work that’s more difficult, and when I looked online for similar roles, all make much, much more than what I currently make. The number I requested was at the *extreme* low end of what I’d consider acceptable for the New Role, and I did that to reflect that I know I don’t have hands on experience.

        It was around a 10% increase to what I make now (where I am also, frankly, underpaid. But that’s a different issue)

        I don’t know what former employees in this position made, but if they didn’t make at least 20% over my current salary, I would be very very surprised (though maybe not too surprised, considering they have left this company).

        No one communicated anything with me regarding salary, ever. After the interview, I got a message offering me the job, with a document to sign with the new title and the same pay. I’d been expecting the next step to be a salary discussion, so I asked for one and got nowhere.

        1. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

          It sounds like you and your company/manager just had different expectations, and you didn’t get them clarified before accepting the position. It would have been nice if they had laid out their expectations more clearly, earlier in the process — but you also could have asked for clarification before accepting. The responsibility for miscommunication is shared.

          It’s not unlike the work version of someone who accepts a marriage proposal after some good dates, without clarifying what both expect out of married life… only to find you had completely different ideas about married surnames, or having children, or or whatever.
          Unfortunate, but not dishonest.

          Lesson: negotiate before you commit.

    2. CTT*

      I’m sorry they weren’t open to negotiating, but you accepted the new role and it’s not unreasonable of your boss to see your acceptance of the role as approval of the terms.

      1. Sad and alone*

        Well, it was either that or be seen as someone who’s unwilling to take on challenges and therefore get passed up for any recognition, ever, as that is the culture at this company

        1. MissGirl*

          Why do you feel like your boss is lying about being excited about you joining the team? I understand you’re disappointed there wasn’t a raise but this amount of rage feels out of place. The company denied you a raise not your boss. You took the job at the terms. It sounds like a great opportunity to broaden your skill set, which will make you more marketable for future opportunities. Focus on that and don’t set fire to a good relationship.

          1. Not-So-New Mom (of 2)*

            OP said the boss was involved in salary determinations.

            OP, I’m sorry this didn’t turn out the way you wanted. but I think you’re reading way too much into your boss’s message. I think this is just a nicety, like asking somebody how they are and only expecting to hear “good” in response.

        2. The Unionizer Bunny*

          As you acknowledged above, you lack direct experience in that role. So they may be wanting to try you out for a probation period. But since they weren’t willing to put that into your contract (in your position, I would have asked them to put in a clause that there would be a performance review X months in, and if mine hadn’t been satisfactory they would give me a raise to what the pay should be for that role, but if it wasn’t satisfactory, they would return me to my old job), I think their intentions are just to continue exploiting you by having you perform the more advanced work without the more advanced pay. (This is often specifically forbidden in union contracts.) Plan to leave at or soon after the next performance review; once you’ve proven that you can do the work, press them to give you a raise, and if they don’t, leave. (Or theaten to leave, but don’t tell them you have a job offer already, or where it’s at – if they can keep you there by sabotaging your reputation with the new employer, they will.)

    3. JustaTech*

      Hey Sad and Alone: this sucks and I’m really sorry. It’s really frustrating to be asked to do more, different and harder work for no more pay or title. (I am exactly here right now.)
      And it was 100% Not Cool for your company to not be upfront about the whole “no more pay” thing, particularly since it was a full interview process.

      That said, I think that the manager *is* excited to have you on the team! The manager probably isn’t thinking about the “no increase in salary” thing at all (and certainly not as much as you), so they’re excited about having the role filled and getting the work done. So I don’t think that they are necessarily lying to you.

      Is the company screwing you over? Probably some. But that doesn’t make your new manager’s excitement a lie.

      So I get why you’re furious and hurt! That’s totally understandable. And when you feel that way I understand why the manager’s email feels false. But to us on the outside it doesn’t really read that way (because we’re not feeling those things). So maybe try to take a step back and ask “what if the manager really is excited for me to be on their team? How will that change my working experience?”

      Good luck!

  69. Thumper*

    I’ve been at my job for a year, took it as a best offer after several months being laid off and needed a paycheck. I knew going in that this would not be longterm for me, but I know I need to leave ASAP. That said, there’s a thing going on that I’d like a gut check on.

    My boss retired last month, and despite the fact that it was known for a while, there seems to have been no succession plan in place. The interim appointment is a disaster. My boss was VP of Baking, and our team has people who make baked goods for display at trade shows and people who work on documenting the baking process and ensuring everyone has access to recipes. The interim boss has only ever made the outside baked goods and has no idea what my side of the house does. They are very good at what they do, but they are also a terrible manager, even for a temporary replacement.

    Anyway, what’s weirding me out is apparently we have two finalist candidates for the job (and I’m praying that neither is the interim person), but when I asked when we’d get to meet the finalists, I was told that they don’t have the finalists meet with the team in advance. I find that weird, although this isn’t a process I’ve been through a lot. But it makes me think, if I were applying for a management role, I’d want to meet the team I’d be managing. Is that weird?

    Side note: yes, I am actively looking for a new job because I hate this one that much. Just looking for input on how skewed my experience is becoming from being in this wacko company

    1. HonorBox*

      It may be something that you can add to your overall perspective, but I don’t think it is THAT weird. I’ve been in positions where I was interviewing and didn’t meet members of the staff. We hired a management level position a couple years ago and they didn’t meet with members of the staff – just CEO, Senior VP, and two outside members who were on the hiring committee. Part of the reasoning for that was that the staff was relatively new, and another part was that there was an internal candidate. So it might be that the interim is one of the two, or it might be that there’s a very good and specific reason for not having candidates meet with the team.

      1. Thumper*

        Thanks. That’s helpful, but now makes me even more worried the interim is getting the job.

        1. HonorBox*

          I see that, and I had that worry as I typed it. But like I said, I’ve interviewed twice for high-level management jobs and only met one staff member in one of the interviews. So it could just be a weird setup and they don’t want to dedicate the time, either for the candidate or staff, to extend the interviews. And I admit I don’t know your workplace, but perhaps there’s worry that if SOME of the staff get to meet with candidates, others will feel some sort of way about it.

  70. Time Off Troubles*

    I’m worried I may have tarnished my reputation with my supervisor and would like thoughts on what (if anything) I should do about it.

    Important context: I’m in an education-adjacent field where we work 12 months but have the bulk of busy times during the typical school year. This summer I took 2 separate weeks off (very typical in my role), and then requested what amounts to an additional 11 days between Oct-Dec. for various events. I was clear that these were one-off, special events so this isn’t going to be a pattern of me taking lots of time off during the school year. I have the time available and the requests were approved by my supervisor.

    During a recent meeting when I mentioned I would be away during a date we were considering for an event, my boss seemed upset. Later that day, she asked for a meeting and clearly told me she was angry with the amount of time I had requested, and that it was going to make a lot more work for her given that we’ve got a lot going on during that time. I apologized, (carefully) reminded her that I’d let her know about all of these dates earlier this summer, and offered to work at least partial days during the one full week I’d requested. I would 100% be fine with this and have done it before for this particular trip. She doesn’t want me to do that because “work/life balance”.

    I’m not willing or able to cancel the trips, partially because they’re non-refundable, and partially because all are special, meaningful events for my family. But I do understand her concerns and want to demonstrate my commitment to this work. Other than just continuing to produce good work, is there anything else I should consider doing? Aside from this instance, I’ve been regularly praised for my dedication and work output by her, and all my reviews have been very positive.

    1. Laggy Lu*

      Maybe try to talk to her about the time leading up to those trips about how you can best prepare. This would be best if you laid out a plan and asked her to review it. Maybe if she knows you won’t be leaving all the work to her, she will feel better about it.

    2. KT*

      Not knowing your exact working relationship but reading between the lines, I’m sure she is jealous that you have a reason to be off work celebrating what sounds like exciting things. It sounds a little bit like passive aggressive bullying but suuper mild.

      Whenever I am doing a Normal Thing and someone has a Weird reaction to it, I just assume that says more about them than it does me. I know it is hard to take my own advice sometimes when it feels really personal but that could be something to consider.

    3. EA*

      This is why I dislike certain people (and definitely certain commenters here) who speak favorably about bosses controlling “work life balance” for their employees, prohibiting them from responding to emails in off hours or on vacation, etc. I would way prefer to work partial days or put in some extra time in order to make the special trips possible. Luckily my current boss is totally fine with that. I think it’s part of flexibility in the workplace.

      On what you should do, I’m not sure your line of work, but if possibly leave detailed plans and work done ahead of time so she doesn’t have to cover as much for you. I do kind of get her position if there’s no one else to cover.

  71. call me wheels*

    A weirdly mixed week for me. Got rejected from all the interviews I was feeling good about last week — a theme on the feedback was they think I’m great but can tell my passions are creatively based and one place outright suggested I’m a flight risk and would leave for the creative industries if I could…. they’re not totally wrong but I do need a job regardless so I’m going to work on showing my motivation for the specific role I’m interviewing for in future, especially because I was genuinely interested in them all (I just really like writing too lol.)

    And then speaking of the creative industries, I actually have kind of been offered some work from my favourite video game studio! (Paid! And I’d get in the credits of the next game!) If that work goes well, it’ll likely become regular. This is what I’ve been working towards for months and I’m really excited! But the catch is WHEN this will happen is currently still up in the air. Could be next month. Could be next year. So I feel wary about properly celebrating until it is all firmly confirmed… I know even getting this far is a big achievement many fans of this game have attempted but not managed, but yeah, I hope to be able to report back with more concrete news soon, and then I will celebrate for real!

  72. OnTheLastSpoon*

    My job is killing me.

    In the first six months of working here, what was supposed to be a regular 40-hour job turned into 60 hours. Then 80 hours. Then, during a particularly chaotic period last winter, into 100 hours a week. My scope also grew from the position I was hired for, to covering duties two levels above my job title, to being transferred responsibilities previously performed by other departments, to now having to be the technical expert/troubleshooter for that other department.

    I have had numerous conversations with my leadership team about my workload being unsustainable. While there have been small improvements, there has been no meaningful transfer of any of my responsibilities to other team members. And in the meantime, more keeps being added to the pile.

    At this point, I know I need to get out. It is very clear that this job will drain me and not think twice. But I am sick, and exhausted, and having panic attacks at the idea of trying to find the energy to job search on top of everything I am dealing with.

    I have Alison’s book and used it’s tips during my last job search, but all my paperwork is a couple years out of date. Any suggestions on how to claw back a little personal time or break the search into smaller chunks so it is not so overwhelming?

      1. OnTheLastSpoon*

        I wish… I tried taking a PTO day two weeks ago when (1) I had a nasty cold and couldn’t come into the office and (2) a storm knocked out internet in my neighborhood and I couldn’t work remotely.

        I sent my manager documentation of who was covering my must-do deadlines for that day and what tasks I would push to the following day. He said that was fine.

        For the next couple hours, I got emails/texts about every 20 minutes with questions about the status of different projects, some of which were more than a week out, and “how do we do this” procedural questions that were documented in the training materials I previously created for the team.

        Around 1:30 pm, my doorbell rang. A manager from another department was standing on my porch with a bag of cold medicine and a mobile hotspot to get me back online because my department was going into a meltdown and I “had” to log in and get things organized.

        1. Educator*

          Ok, that is so over the line they cannot even see it anymore.

          It sounds like part of the problem is that there are too many managers involved here. At a healthy organization, if I want to use the time of another manager’s team member, I go to their manager first, explain the situation, and get permission so that I know the team member does not have other priorities. My title does not give me the right to impress random people into service like a ship captain of old.

          It would have been totally reasonable to say “sorry, my manager approved a sick day for me today” and close the door in their face.

          But I wonder if you could make more of this your manager’s problem. Anyone approaches you for work, say “please ask [manager] if this is more important than the work he has already assigned me–I’ll leave that to the two of you to sort out. Happy to help where I am most needed.”

          1. OnTheLastSpoon*

            Oh no, no, no – my manager knew this was happening. He sent his counterpart because the other team had spare equipment.

            I have tried making lists of key tasks that have to be completed in the next 24-48 hours and asking my leadership team to rank them as priorities. Unfortunately, they subscribe to the “top priority is my last phone call” philosophy, so I get yanked from one fire to another for most of my workday.

        2. Somehow I Manage*

          OP, let me start by stating the obvious: 60-80 hours is not sustainable. And 100 is certainly not.

          I think they lost every ounce of credibility when they showed up at your house on a sick day because no one could figure out how to get stuff done. So in my mind, you owe them what you signed on for, and nothing else.

          As others have pointed out, find a way to either have management prioritize projects or do that yourself if they’re unwilling. And then work a reasonable schedule – no more than 50 hours – and whatever doesn’t get done won’t get done. It could be done tomorrow, or just continue to languish at the bottom of your list of priorities depending on the specific task.

          You’ve been given more than anyone should reasonably expect to have on their plate. Unless and until there’s a business case for bringing new people on, they’re just not going to do it.

          Clock out, unplug, silence your phone at 5:00 or 6:00. Don’t respond until you’re at your desk the next day. Take your lunch and push away from all work during that time too. Don’t work on your days off…ever. Even if you weren’t interested in finding a new role, you deserve the time to unplug because working 10-12 hour days is not sustainable or healthy.

          Worst case: You’re let go because you have management that can’t grasp the fact that one person can’t be expected to sustain an 80 hour work week and do the work of 3.
          Better case: You show them the case for hiring a couple new people.
          Best case: You have time in your life to be yourself. You have time to job hunt effectively. And you find a role at a place that isn’t going to send someone to your home when you’re sick because they are that messed up.

          1. I Have RBF*

            Possible suggestion: Call your doctor. Tell them about the problem, including a manager showing up with cold medicine and a hotspot at your house when you were sick, to make you work. Get them to advise you to keep your hours under 50 a week. “My physician has recommended that I reduce my hours to 50 hours or less a week.”

    2. Educator*

      If you keep doing everything, you are not giving them a reason to fix your workload. Don’t do some things. Unless you are literally saving lives, stop doing anything that takes you more than 40-60 hours. I know it feels really wrong to abandon some responsibilities, but it is what will happen anyway if you just keep letting them add stuff–they will add until there is more work than hours in a day. Better to scale back on your terms. If you get any pushback, explain how you set your priorities and ask if there is anything you thought was more important that they see as less important. You have the power here–they would have to hire three people to replace you.

    3. Kathenus*

      What will happen if you set a time boundary of how long you’ll work each week and then do as much work as is possible in that time and the rest doesn’t get done. You can ask your manager/leadership team to prioritize what to get done, but be clear that you are no longer able to work more than XX hours per week on a regular basis. If they say it’s all a priority just reiterate that it’s not possible to do it all without more help, so they can prioritize work or you’ll use your best judgment to do so.

      Then, whatever doesn’t get done doesn’t get done. Right now it sounds like you are killing yourselves and getting it done. Therefore the leadership has no incentive to change (other than the ethical one which they are obviously failing at). You can’t change their actions, only your response to them. So to help get some semblance of balance back, which will also give you more time/energy for the job search, set a boundary for yourself and stick to it.

      If there are consequences to understaffing that affect leadership, then they’ll have more motivation to find an actual solution versus just dumping it on you. And sounds like you probably have leverage, they’re not going to want to fire you for not working 80-100 hours a week if they’d have no one to do the work if they did so, correct?

      It sucks, they should care and do something, but since they won’t you need to stand up for yourself to protect your health and mental wellbeing. Good luck.

    4. MissGirl*

      If you keep going like this, one of two things will happen. You’ll burn out and quit or you’ll burn out, drop the ball on something big, and get fired. Knowing there’s no winning, here are some thoughts:

      Quit without a job lined up, knowing you’d never find a new one anyhow while working there.

      Just leave work at a certain time and to hell with the consequences. Don’t answer the phone or door. I can’t believe they came to your house.

      Outsource your resume to a professional.

      Tag team a loved one to help you either with making it, sending it, finding jobs. This isn’t ideal but it’s time to get creative.

      This work will destroy you.

    5. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      You actually have all the power here. If they showed up to your door while you were sick, they can’t function without you.

      You could tell them you need a tripled salary to mach your tripled workload and to hire you a team, or you’re leaving.

      1. Part time lab tech*

        This. Leave the office after 40hrs. Work out your rates for overtime and working while sick. Only work overtime if they give you someone to train. They called you into work when you had the flu. What are they going to do, fire you? Don’t ask your manager what to off load and what to train. He’s proven he’s happy to pass along pain to you. Manager doesn’t have your back. Decide what jobs you hate and start using your power to get someone else trained as back up. Use the example of not being able to take a single sick day as a point of failure if you win lotto. Those basic tasks should be the first to go. In theory they should be the easiest to pass off and they are not resume building any more.
        Don’t set yourself on fire for managers that add fuel and are not even willing to take a cigarette burn.

  73. jasmine*

    So this happened a while ago and I was wondering on AAM community’s take on it.

    We were hiring for two roles on the team, one senior and one junior. There was someone in line for the senior position who seemed like a great candidate, but they pulled out of the process due to accepting an offer at a different company. We offered the senior position to someone else. The first candidate came back and said their offer fell through, so they’d like to continue interviewing at our company if possible.

    We knew that the first candidate would have been willing to accept the junior position (they applied for that one but we pushed them to the other pile because the senior role was a better fit for them). But we decided not to interview him for that position, because then he’d be essentially be misclassified in terms of skill.

    I’ve been feeling conflicted about it. On one hand, giving someone with senior skills a junior title just doesn’t seem great for team dynamics and it feels like it can create some confusion. But on the other hand, like… does it harm the team? I know on the job hunting side, it’s really frustrating to be turned over for being “overqualified”.

    What do folks think?

    1. HonorBox*

      I think in your situation, passing over that candidate because they’d pulled out of the process seems OK. That said, had you put them back in, even if they are “overqualified,” perhaps there are reasons that they’d like to step back and it would have been exactly what they’re looking for.

    2. ferrina*

      I think you handled it the right way.

      It’s not good to call someone who is senior a “Junior”. It only works is there is an incredibly clear distinction between senior work and junior work, and the person is only doing junior work. If juniors and seniors do very similar work and the Junior person is doing work at a senior level, yes, people are going to notice and know that it’s not fair. It’s really bad for morale, and it makes them wonder if they can actually be promoted and grow their career at the company, or if they will be pigeon-holed in the same role regardless of skill. It also sends the message that the company will try to get away with underpaying/underclassifying people.

      If you had the flexibility and desire, you could have tried to convert the junior role into a senior one. Not sure if that was even a possibility- in some roles/companies/industries it is, and in some it isn’t.

      As HonorBox points out, it was the candidate who walked away from the table. They removed themself from consideration, and you moved on. That’s what you’re supposed to do. At the time they wanted to be reconsidered, there was no longer an opening (it would have been unfair to the other candidate to pull the offer at that point). You could have considered Candidate 1 for the junior opening, but you did consider him for that, and it wasn’t the right fit (for the previous reasons). Sometimes a great candidate just isn’t the right fit for what you need at the time. It sucks, but it happens, and it’s not worth to try to force the issue.

  74. PropJoe*

    Etiquette question:

    Someone else at my work, who I know by sight but have no idea what their name is or what department they work in, just the building, has a state inspection+registration sticker that is wildly out of date. Their sticker expired in June 2023.

    I know this because I happen to park next to this person several times per week.

    The vehicle in question is a Lexus, which suggests maybe it isn’t a cost issue behind the delay.

    My question: would I have standing to tactfully mention this to the person next time I park next to them and am in the lot at the same time?

    3. ruthling*

      I would. They may be very bad at remembering stuff and be grateful they aren’t getting a ticket yet.

    4. Indolent Libertine*

      I once got a fix-it ticket for having expired tags when I had paid the registration, on time, and then just never gotten around to actually putting the new sticker onto the car. I was driving around with it right there in the glove box, but somehow that had gotten filed away in my brain as the task being completed. It was definitely a hassle to go into the police department and show them the receipts to get the ticket dismissed. So it’s possible that it’s an innocent mistake. I still wouldn’t say anything, though.

    6. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      Thanks for posting this! I realized I hadn’t put on the new tags I received two weeks ago and went out and did it. I had another week, but I would have probably forgotten.

    7. Isabel Archer*

      No, you don’t have the standing. Your impulse may be well-intentioned, but telegraphs as nosy and intrusive. If I were the owner of the car I’d get serious hall-monitor vibes from you pointing this out to me, a fellow adult.

      1. unpleased*

        Agreed wholeheartedly. People who do things like this think they are being helpful but it’s invasive.

        1. Goldfeesh*

          But sometimes it is helpful if you just forgot to put the sticker on that is in your glovebox or sitting on your desk at home.

          1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

            I think leaving an (anonymous) note on their car might be the best option, if you want to do it. It will put your mind to rest with minimal potential for weirdness.

  75. Rex Libris*

    If your boss approved the time, and it falls within your allowed time off/PTO accrual or whatever, this is a problem with your boss, not they time you’re taking, and they’re being unreasonable.

    As far as a response, with my own boss I’d say something like “I’m very sorry that my time off requests caused an issue. Unfortunately I already have trips planned with some non-refundable costs involved. I just assumed that since you approved it, you were okay with it, but I’m happy to plan differently in the future. Just let me know what would work better for you.”

  76. June First*

    Just coming here to report that I just saw a car in one of our employee parking lots with the license plate THE BEC.

    I have never identified more with a license plate in my life.

  77. Zippity Doodah*

    Does anyone know if universities have any legal obligation to grant a degree, if the student has fulfilled all requirements academic and financial? There was a letter on here a while ago about a student whose university didn’t know if she was set to graduate, didn’t answer her calls/emails, and kept fobbing her off into games of telephone pinball. And the comments were full of egregious stories: advisor retired / went on sabbatical, or paperwork got lost by admin, and student’s graduation was delayed / missed and opportunities lost through no fault of student.

    A boss who hires workers and then wanders off when asked to pay them, is committing a crime even if there was no intention of wrongdoing. Is there an equivalent of a labor board one could report a college to?

    (Reposting after previous nesting fail)

    1. kalli*

      Many universities are members of a higher education providers group, usually indicated by a registration number on their website or in materials. Some of these are government oversight, some are private memberships. If you go to their website and find that, you can follow it back and see if they have a grievance process for once that of the university fails.

      There is also usually an education ombudsman, or they fall under the larger consumer ombudsman.

      Breach of contract is also possible.

      In some cases, universities can withdraw or not provide parchments based on conduct reasons, but people affected by that tend to be aware of it.

    2. Policy Wonk*

      What kind of university? If this is a State school, go to your state legislator to ask for assistance. Someone in academia may have information, but for a private school what about the organization that certifies them?

    3. deesse877*

      The only outside authorities in the sense you mean are accreditors and the federal government (or state government in the case of public schools). For any of those, you are only likely to get a response slowly, and only if you can show that a crime has been committed. Generally, they look for patterns of fraud, not individual cases of bad practice.

      A better short-term to medium a term strategy is to figure out who’s the superior of the person or office that is causing you trouble, and go up the chain until you get results.

  78. EnsignRiker*

    I messed up with my new boss, and I need advice! Yesterday, my new boss was scheduled to come by the office to familiarize herself with the space and chat briefly with me and another person before her start date next month. She was initially meant to arrive around noon and meet me at 12:30. That morning, I had two other long back-to-back meetings, which both went over time. The second one included another high-profile guest, so I didn’t want to leave unless alerted that the new boss had arrived. At 1, my second meeting finally ended, but new boss wasn’t there yet, and I was desperate for some food! For context, I take a medication that makes me feel really terrible if I don’t eat, and I had stupidly rushed out in the morning without having breakfast and then downed two big caffeinated drinks in my meetings. So by 1 pm I was literally shaking and decided to dash out. I sent an email to new boss to let her know in case she arrived while I was out, but lo and behold, as I was exiting the elevator, there she was! She seemed confused that I was leaving. I told her I was just running out for a quick bite as our meetings had run long, and I would be back ASAP. But first I made sure to escort her up to the office, hand her off to a coworker, and promised to be back within 10 minutes. Luckily there was a truck outside the building, so I was able to grab a bite, scarf it down, and be ready to discuss projects with her within 10 minutes flat. But as it turned out, she’d already finished talking to everyone else in that short period, so she was just reading some documents and waiting for me, and I was hit with the rudeness of what I’d done. Another coworker and my husband both gently told me I f’ed up. Truly, I had such tunnel vision about eating some food that I wasn’t thinking straight at the moment, but now I’m embarrassed. I’ll definitely plan better in the future, but is there anything I should say to the new boss now?

    1. ruthling*

      If you feel bad, you can apologize again, but honestly sometimes that’s the way days go. You weren’t even rude to her, you handed her off to someone who could help her until you got back, and got back super fast.

    2. HonorBox*

      I don’t think you messed up much, if at all. Your work kept you late in a meeting. Boss was also late in getting to you. Plus the information you were given in advance told you that you’d have about 30 minutes between boss’s arrival and meeting with you. You were gone 10 minutes. A good person will understand the need for a bite to eat.

      If you feel like you need to address it, and I’m not sure you do, I think next time you see the new boss, you could just apologize for the optics of prioritizing food over your meeting. Tell them that you were shaking because you needed some food and wanted to be your best self when you met.

    3. Friday Me*

      Hopefully you’ll get lucky and she’ll be someone like me who gets a headache and/or gets hangry if I go too long without food. I’m VERY understanding if someone needs a quick break to grab a bite.

      P.S. If there are no rules against it, keep a granola bar or package of peanut butter crackers your desk for emergencies like this.

      1. Spreadsheet Queen*

        I agree with this:
        P.S. If there are no rules against it, keep a granola bar or package of peanut butter crackers your desk for emergencies like this.
        Or make sure you grab one on the way out the door at home if you’re skipping breakfast.

        I don’t think you messed up at all (other than not eating breakfast). But you might also have been shaky by then even if you HAD eaten breakfast. Meetings run long. People run late. Yada yada. 10 minutes is no big deal.

      2. ferrina*

        It’s incredibly common at my company for people to run 5 minutes late because they are grabbing coffee/food. We have a lot of meetings, we know people need to eat, and we have no problem with folks needing a few minutes before an internal meeting. It’s a bigger deal if a junior staffer does it to a senior staffer, but as long as it’s a rarity and the junior says “sorry, I just got off a client call that ran late and I haven’t had a chance to grab food”, most of the seniors are find with it (especially because every single senior staffer that I’ve worked with has done that, so it’s not like any of us are innocent :)

    4. ferrina*

      You didn’t mess up.

      You have a health condition where you need to eat. You were literally shaking. Food was required ASAP, and there’s nothing you could have done about that.

      Despite that, you still escorted your boss to where she needed to be and made sure she was set before you left, and you were back within 10 minutes (which is an incredibly quick time- most of my bosses would have still been socializing at the 10 minute mark). Oh, and she was the one who had originally been half an hour late. Not that that’s a mark against her, but I assume she can grant you 10 minutes grace. And honestly, being left to read papers for a few minutes when the person you’re meeting with is having a hectic day is neither a bad experience nor an uncommon one. I cannot count how many times that has happened to me, and it’s an important skill to know who can be kept waiting (i.e., a low-key internal meeting like this was) and who cannot be kept waiting (i.e., high profile client)

      If you are regularly making your boss wait 10 minutes, it is a problem. And yes, it would have been ideal if you’d eaten breakfast, been more careful with your caffeine intake, and had a snack on hand. But nothing about what you did is particularly egregious. A lot of people skip breakfast/drink too much caffeine/don’t have a snack on hand. If you are younger, you’re also learning how your body reacts to the timing and stress of a work environment. I also learned the hard way to pace my caffeine intake and always have a snack on hand in case I don’t have time to get lunch (I’ve always been a breakfast eater- I get incredibly cranky without food).

      You can apologize to your boss when she starts if you want, but honestly, you’re also fine saying nothing. The best thing to do is not be late to her meetings- she’ll quickly figure out that the first experience was an anomaly.

    5. Bast*

      I really don’t see it as a misstep. You were hungry. It was lunch time. She was late. Some people get HANGRY. A good boss is going to realize that people get hungry, (including her, I assume) it’s human nature, and make allowances for that. It isn’t like you left for a 2 hour lunch break and came back still expecting to meet. You had no idea if she was showing up then, an hour from then, or two hours later.

    6. Rick Tq*

      You didn’t mess up, you are (literally) a victim of the circumstances.. How can you plan for meetings that run long enough you can’t eat when you NEED to and a boss who shows up long after they were scheduled to arrive.

      You didn’t just rush by when you met her at the elevator, you did a warm handoff to a coworker then went for food.

      Maybe you could plan better by eating a real meal in the morning before back-to-back meetings and go easier on the caffeine during them.

    7. Pocket Mouse*

      I just don’t see how you messed up here? Most people start taking their lunch no later than 1pm, and I think your email before you headed out demonstrated thoughtfulness, especially if you didn’t know when to expect her because she hadn’t arrived when initially expected. Stepping into the new boss’ shoes, my thoughts along the day would be:

      1. Great, I’m going to get a better feel for the space and the team, glad we could arrange this.
      2. Oh no, I’m going to be late.
      3. Oh NO, I’m half an hour late! That’s embarrassing. I hope the people I’m supposed to see are still able to chat with me.
      4. Glad I ran into EnsignRiker. That was kind of them to escort me up and introduce me to Colleague even though they were literally on their way out to get food.
      5. Welp, that was a super short chat with Colleague. Awkward…
      6. At least there’s something useful to read while EnsignRiker’s getting food.
      7. EnsignRiker’s back! Wow, that was fast.
      8. Note to self: must show up on time on my first day.

      Unless there are incriminating details you omitted here, I think your colleague and husband are off base on this one. To answer your question, I don’t think there’s anything you *should* say to your new boss, but you can if you want to. Just if you do make reference to her visit, frame it as “I wish our timing had been better aligned” and not “my deepest apologies for being horribly rude to you by meeting a real biological need of mine in a way that inconvenienced you almost not at all”. Something like: “Welcome! How’s your first day going so far? I hope it was helpful for you to come by the other week – I wish we’d been able to overlap in the office a bit more during that visit, but please let me know if I can assist as you get settled in now.”

  79. All the Anon for This*

    I have a question about how to proceed in a situation that involves misuse of IP and petty jealousy. This is a weird one (in my experience, at least). I’ve been reading AAM avidly for more than a year, but this is my first post.



    I am a professor in a highly specialized field that’s immensely popular and oddly prestigious. Let’s say I teach future rock stars at the top pop music university in the world. Our graduates include everyone from (the equivalent of) Taylor Swift and Post Malone to the behind-the-scenes people who produce their music, write their songs, and play on their albums, all at the highest levels of the industry. I worked in (the equivalent of) the pop music industry at a very high level before switching to teaching. I love my job with a deep passion and feel very blessed to work with my talented colleagues and students.



    Recently I discovered that a former student and later employee at a nonprofit I taught at many, many years ago has stolen my teaching IP and has been passing it off as their own. (Yes, professors’ lecture notes are copyrighted when in a fixed and tangible form, which mine are.) Other former students have recognized the IP theft for what it is.



    The IP thief once tried to make it as a pop star but never made it further than playing in a few local clubs in minor cities. They have a history of what looks like narcissism and a deep need to be seen as the successful rock star they never were. They’re now selling themselves online as a pop star guru, promising to help gullible young musicians become rich and famous. But they’re doing this using my unique teaching material. Honestly, looking over what they’ve published, they have nothing of value to offer on their own *without* stealing other people’s material.



    I am in the process of writing a couple of books that will use some of the material the IP thief has plagiarized. I’m talking to multiple publishers at the moment, and expect to close a publication deal fairly soon. If that weren’t the case, I might have rolled my eyes and let this go.



    So I reached out to to the IP thief, pointed out that they were using my copyrighted material without credit or consent, asked them to stop doing so, and asked them to remove from the internet any published material relying on my work. I wanted to give them a chance to do the right thing.



    Alas, they did not. The IP thief instead responded with nastiness, baseless threats, and a rather total lack of understanding how copyright law works. (They claimed “fair use,” for instance, which doesn’t apply to someone using someone else’s material for personal profit.) Maybe I was naive, but I expected better from this person, based on our past relationship.



    I haven’t responded — and that’s where I would love to hear people’s thoughts. Do I just ignore the nasty response, since I’ve made my copyright ownership clear for the purposes of future publication? Do I respond pointing out their fallacious understanding of copyright and tell them again to stop, perhaps with a “you have been warned” vibe? Do I wait till I’ve signed my publishing deal and let the publisher take it from here? I’d rather not spend the money to get my very expensive lawyer involved — but do I need to do that?

    

One more wrinkle: The nasty, threatening email the IP thief sent was almost certainly generated by AI (which helps explain some of the blatantly false statements re: copyright law). That made me run the stolen material posted online by the IP thief through several AI detectors — and most of them also cited the posted material as AI-generated. (Yes, I realize AI detectors aren’t always reliable.) That may make this all moot, since AI-generated material isn’t eligible for copyright, so this thief may have absolutely no claim to “own” any of the content they’ve been posting.



    I have been letting many days dribble away while I ponder how to respond. Any thoughts from the wise commentariat here are appreciated.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      A couple hours from an actual lawyer might help – cease-and-desist letter, help you organize/document your materials, advice on how to protect your stuff going forward.

      1) This puts the IP thief on formal notice
      2) It demonstrates to your future publisher that you’re aware of a potential issue and are taking steps to address it. Assuming the publishing deal closes, their counsel will appreciate that you at least dipped your toes into this.

      1. ferrina*

        I’m seconding the lawyer idea. There may be other legal intricacies here that you aren’t aware of, and a lawyer will help you know how to set yourself up to protect yourself.

        Is this something that your university’s legal department would get involved in? Usually content created as part of employment is technically IP of the employer, so I’m guessing that materials for a class count? (but I’m not a lawyer nor ever worked at a university). If the university’s legal department has a good reputation, they might be worth talking to. Otherwise, finding your own lawyer is the way to go.

      2. Rick Tq*

        Don’t just put the thief on notice. Be sure to submit Copyright Strikes to every online platform that they have used to distribute copies of your IP.

        That should get your IP removed in a way the thief can’t ignore.

    2. Spreadsheet Queen*

      I’m pretty sure (#notalawyer) that AI can and does generate materials that infringe on an original creator’s copyright. There are actual real lawyers who write articles and give presentations on this very thing, and is a real thing that is holding a lot of companies back from using AI in their work.

    3. Kesnit*

      From my limited understanding of IP law…

      If you don’t enforce it, you lose the ability to enforce it. You reached out politely and were rebuffed. You CANNOT let this slide and hope someone else handles it. Whether you hire an IP lawyer or work through your university’s legal staff, this must be addressed more formally.

      IAAL, but do not and have never practiced IP law. PLEASE speak to someone in that field YESTERDAY(!) to ensure you and your work are protected.

    4. PivotTime*

      As someone who is currently going to school for a legal degree concentrating on IP( please note: I’m not a JD, I’m not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice), I do echo others who suggest getting an IP lawyer involved. Your teaching notes and methods are covered by copyright, and you have an argument for copyright infringement, especially if someone is using your methods to personally profit from them. Fair use doesn’t apply here. You might want to take screenshots and anything else that shows the IP thief is using your content.

      You want to go the legal route now that you have tried interacting with the IP thief and they refused to comply. Contacting a lawyer starts the paper trail and you want to be able to show your publisher that you have identified a problem and are actively working to fix it.

      Also, as a note, an item is copyrighted the second it is created and placed in a fixed, tangible medium (including a computer/digitally). Trademarks are the ones that you have to fight infringement cases on or you can lose them. That’s a totally different kettle of fish though.

    5. Academic Librarian*

      Try the Copyright Small Claims link on the U.S. Copyright Office website: https://www.copyright.gov/about/small-claims/

      This was created to make it easier for people to file claims for small amounts of money in copyright disputes.

      The Copyright Office Website is great too: https://www.copyright.gov
      Your university should have a legal department you can ask for advice. If not, check with the school’s library, because they often have a copyright lawyer you could consult with.

    6. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Talk to the legal department at your university and let them know what’s going on. (If you reach out to a lawyer on your own, they will almost certainly tell you to do that.) They can give you the specialized guidance you need when it comes to materials you have prepared for university instruction.

    7. Glomarization, Esq.*

      To add to my comment:

      Do I wait till I’ve signed my publishing deal and let the publisher take it from here?

      Here’s where you might want to talk to an independent lawyer with expertise in book deals. The contract may have a clause in it where you represent to the publisher that there are no outstanding issues or possible lawsuits related to your ownership of the material that you are submitting for publishing. Or it may have a clause where you represent to the publisher that the materials have never been published outside of classroom use. Now that you know the materials are out there, whether you’ve given the thief notice or not, you may not be able to truthfully sign the contract until the matter is addressed. You should discuss this with a lawyer before you sign the contract. (Sorry, it’s my job to be a worst-case scenario thinker.)

      I’m also wondering what is the extent of the materials that the thief is using. The more it’s akin to just recipes or mathematical formulae without commentary, or if it’s the super stripped-down part of a computer program that cannot be expressed any other way because the form and content are predetermined by its function, then there may not be a copyright infringement. But if they’re using something closer to an entire tranche of your materials, then of course that’s more likely to be infringement. This question would have to be taken to a lawyer who can look at the materials and see how the thief is using them.

  80. Sandwiches*

    Grad school advice?

    I’m starting a grad program next week in applied math. We had an orientation this week and all four speakers emphasized that grad school is very different from undergrad in terms of workload, expectations, and independence.

    I graduated undergrad 7 years ago and have been working in an unrelated field, so I’m feeling a bit out of practice when it comes to academics. I had to take a couple of pre-reqs to apply to the programs, but I took most of them online and I didn’t feel that they were very rigorous, so now I’m even more nervous about increased expectations.

    My main goal is to determine if I’d like to apply for PhD programs and then set myself up for either a successful application cycle if I do want to apply or an industry job if I decide not to. I have no research experience (which is why I’m unsure on the PhD route) and it’s not a thesis-based program; there’s a project seminar capstone instead.

    Any advice for studying, succeeding, networking, and generally making the most of the next year?

    2. wordily*

      Congratulations on starting grad school! First and most important thing is to enjoy yourself – it’s a cool opportunity!
      Otherwise, it’s absolutely true that your program will require more independence. Some of that will be obvious, in that you’ll be given more complex work and expected to do more of the initial “how do I solve this” exploration and thinking. Some of it is less obvious – people who go on to (do well in) a PhD will be training for that pre-PhD by not just submitting the work that they need to pass and calling it a day, but really taking the time to be curious and find out more about things that seem interesting or that they want to understand better.
      Practically speaking, get in the habit of working steadily right from the beginning, not rushing everything just before a deadline. For networking, ask questions! Ask PhD students what their research is on. Ask professors to explain more about topics you covered in class (if they have time, of course, but most are happy to find someone who’s really interested in going into more detail). Ask your peers how they’re finding the course, and study with them if you want to – or set up a student reading or discussion group about something you’d like to learn more about together. Be curious and sincere, and don’t be ashamed of not knowing things, because you’re there to learn.

      1. Sandwiches*

        Thank you! I’m trying to channel my nervous energy to excitement over anxiety because I know it’s a great opportunity.

        > Practically speaking, get in the habit of working steadily right from the beginning, not rushing everything just before a deadline.

        It’s like you know me in real life :) thanks for all of the advice!

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Don’t be reliant on only a single professor for advice. You are semi-colleagues with the faculty now, and you should take advantage of that to network with multiple of them.

      Get to know the administrative people in the department too. A department secretary with 25 years of experience is often going to have more knowledge and power than a professor with 5 years of tenure.

    4. GradSchool*

      In my experience this depends greatly on where you went to undergrad and where you’re going to grad school. Despite going to grad school at an Ivy, my undergrad (Chicago) was more rigorous and, in many cases, used the same textbooks as my grad classes in the same subjects. I ended up taking accreditation tests so I didn’t have to repeat a couple of classes unrelated to the area I wanted to specialize in and bringing all of my labs in to show I’d already done 100% of the available labs in the graduate lab course. I did have to repeat the classes that were closer to my area of focus.

      I guess I’m trying to say don’t make assumptions and everyone’s experience is different.

      Good luck!

    5. Kitten*

      I went from undergrad to grad and it was very similar to me. Just all smaller classes. I went a very long time ago but found success checking out books on two hour loan at the library and doing reading and homework on two hour increments. I was very detailed, took great notes and that discipline helped immensely.
      Generally be disciplined in your studying.

      Finally only get a PhD of you are fully funded or your program is high wage high demand in the workforce

  81. Bad at interviewing*

    I consistently come across as slightly “off” (almost certainly undiagnosed neurodivergence) — friends/family have told me that I regularly seem stilted and more awkward than I feel, my reactions in a conversation can be slightly out of sync, and my speech is overly formal and rhythmically odd thanks to a slight stammer.
    Unsurprisingly, I’m terrible at interviews! I do OK getting invited to first interviews, but very rarely get beyond that point, and I’m sure my odd affect is playing a part. I can’t shift it however hard I try — and I truly have, because I know it puts me at a personal and professional disadvantage. (Before people ask, I’m clean, tidy though not fashionable, and polite — just not immediately likable. I’m also not in a field that requires much direct interaction with customers and I get on OK with coworkers even if I’m not buddies with them.)
    I’ve read more recently about neurodivergent people asking for accommodations at interview, but they mostly seem to be about changes to the interview process. I’m fine with how the interviews are run, but I do feel like I’m at a serious disadvantage because of this thing I can’t help. Is there a way of asking for an accommodation of “please just give me a chance even though I come across as a weirdo”? Has anyone else had similar experiences? Did you find anything that helped?

    1. ferrina*

      Try saying “I have a slight stammer, so please don’t mind if my speech sounds a little odd.”
      Some people will judge that (because some people will judge anything), but others will be understanding and it will help them write off any speech quirks.

      Also- do more research on neurodivergence or go to a specialist. Neurodivergence is a LOT of things. Simply saying “I’m neurodivergent” is so broad it’s meaningless. It’s like going to a doctor and saying “I have a health issue.” Figure out your flavor of neurodivergence; that will help you figure out if you need accommodations, if there is CBT that you can do (my ND flavor is ADHD, and CBT is common in ADHD), if there are other treatment options, or if it’s just something to be accepted (and maybe be able to give an explanation to folks as needed).

    2. BellyButton*

      Ugg I am so sorry. This is why I have anyone involved in the hiring process take a mandatory training with me about hiring/interviewing neurodivergent people. Teams are missing out on some of the best employees just because they can come across as weird or awkward.

      You may look into a local Autism support group, they will sometimes organize coaching sessions with SME about various things. I have done a few sessions with my friend’s local Autism group around work place norms.

      I think if they ask you behavioral type interview questions like “Tell me about a time when you had a miscommunication/disagreement with coworker”

      You can use it as an opportunity to make them know you are self-aware that sometimes you can come across as… whatever words you want- awkward/shy… Something like “I can sometimes be perceived as being awkward which is something I am always striving to overcome….” then give an example as to a time that caused a misunderstanding and how you corrected it.

      Good luck!

    3. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

      I think BellyButton’s advice is good.
      I’m personally very much in favor of a change in the format of interviews.
      I consider an interview is meant for the candidate to show that they can do the social/relational/communication aspects of the job they’re interviewing for (and experience conditions vaguely similar to those they’d be working in). But they often end up sampling a different set of social and communication competencies. Like, sounding smooth rather than effectively conveying information, or extemporizing from memory when the actual job has plenty of prep time built in and opportunity to consult references.

      I’m in favor of offering candidates (or requesting, when I’m the candidate) the opportunity to demonstrate the skills needed to be successful in the actual job. And that’s how I’ve put it to hiring managers. Not “give me/them a chance even though I/they come across as a wierdo” but “give me/them a chance to show I/they can succeed at the essential tasks and skills of this particular job,” and prompt for a focus on those skills that aren’t impacted by seeming stilted or weird. Sometimes this means treating the interview like a low-key roleplay or demonstration of some aspect of the job, sometimes it means offering/asking a work sample, sometimes it means explicitly discussing the awkwardness. I have actually said “I don’t always come across well in interviews, some of the awkwardness you see is due to my feeling nervous about being judged out of context, and it’s significantly reduced once I’m settled in my role. But you don’t have to take my word for it. I encourage you to ask any of my references their impressions of me as an established coworker or employee.”

      For an illustrative story…
      I recently sat in on the interviews of several candidates for a position that works closely with mine. The open position has a significant public-facing, customer service component and little standardization; being able to take initiative, gather info independently, problem-solve and communicate effectively in real time are essential qualifications for the role. Two of the candidates came across as markedly more stilted and “weird” in similar ways – uncommon speech and conversation rhythm and tempo, some verbal tics, flat affect, atypical posture. None of those things necessarily preclude their doing the job, so I don’t judge on those characteristics in themselves. During their interviews, one of the candidates demonstrated ability to take in new information and respond adaptively, distinguish relevant from irrelevant information, ask relevant clarifying questions. The other one overfocused on irrelevant details even when redirected, preferred to talk about own interestes rather than the job, couldn’t think of any questions to ask even when offered suggestions (like, “at this point in the interview, candidates often ask about how we support work-life balance, or what a typical day for this role looks like. Do you have questions about anything like that?”), and had a hunched, uncomfortable posture, looking down or away most of the time. The posture is not in itself a problem– people can be attentive in a variety of postures –but in conjunction with other observations it suggested a candidate who was struggling with the combined social, communication, and information processing demands of the interview and might struggle with those combined demands in the job as well.

      All else being equal, I’d have considered the first candidate worth a try, but not the second one. First one seemed able to do the essential function of the job. Second one seemed likely to struggle, in ways we couldn’t alleviate with any reasonable accommodation. I think the candidate who actually got an offer was a third one who was a smidge less stilted and had additional qualifications, familiarity with a specialized software, and more independent problem-solving in their work history.

  82. Lucy P*

    Need tips on how to stay on top of things and keep organized when you don’t completely understand all of the terminology and aspects in your job. I’m the office manager for a small firm that also owns its own building. Right now we’re undertaking a major capital improvement project to renovate/add-on to said building.

    For multiple reasons, including my involvement in a previous renovation (which was not as complex and had a larger number of staff involved in managing the project), I’m the main contact because the owners and the contractors. Sometimes the owners are involved in conversations/meetings. Sometimes it’s just me.

    If I have to have a discussion about a door opening (that’s on the plans) that hasn’t been built, I’m fine with that. Need me to look at the electrical panel that was supposed to be changed out, but still looks like the picture I took 5 years ago, I can do that. But when conversations turn to things about J-loads, R-values, or flame spread requirements, I’m at a loss. Sometimes I can parrot this discussion to the owners. Other times I won’t even try because it’s so beyond me. Or if I get an answer from a contractor, I don’t understand enough to know whether or not it’s acceptable. Then I have to go back to my boss, relate the discussion, and then be told the contractor is just throwing out terms to confuse me. (Well obviously!)

    On top of that, I’ve noticed the contractors (who are horribly slow at completing the work), will change their mind from one meeting to the next. For instance the HVAC contractor couldn’t make up his mind about whether the return air grill should be 12×36 or 20×30. I don’t even know if there is a point in arguing that he specified a different size in the previous meeting.

    The success of this project is important to me, although I realize that it’s not my fault for lack of comprehension. Obviously I’m not the first person to be thrown into the deep end. How have others managed when they didn’t know what they were doing?

    1. Educator*

      Ask the contractors to explain themselves! You are the client, and it is in everyone’s interest to make sure you understand what they are doing. You sound like a quick learner, so this will pay off for everyone.

      “How would you explain the core of the issue to someone who knows nothing about [insert technical thing here]?”

      “I noticed that you changed your mind about the size of the return air grill. What should I know about that switch?”

    2. Ama*

      So I used to work a job where I ran a grant application for people doing very technical scientific research, and I have the bare minimum of science education background. Sometimes people would call me with a question about whether their research would be eligible for our funding and unless it was very obvious (like, not even in the correct disease area) I always had to ask our scientific advisors for help. One thing I would do is if they called me, I would ask them to send me the exact same question via email so that I could forward it to our scientific advisors and make sure there was no miscommunication. If I was having a meeting in person, I would write it down but I would then read it back to them at the end of the meeting (“ok, so I’m going to get boss’s expert opinion on [reads off issue] and report back to you, right?”)

      With regards to the person who keeps changing their mind you can say “it looks like in our last meeting you specified this size, do you want to change that to this new one?” You’re not resisting the change if that’s really what they want but you’re just reminding them that they made a different decision previously. (And of course if making the change is going to cause a delay you can something like “we can change it but since we placed an order for the other size after last week it’s going to be an extra week before we’ll have it here,” or whatever.)

      I’d also recommend keeping good searchable notes for yourself about anything you ask for help on so if the same question comes up again you can refer back to those.

      Good luck! I’ve been the office manager stuck with a too big project before, remember that it’s far better to ask for clarification (even if that causes a delay) than to guess, make the wrong decision, and have to clean it up later.

      1. Lucy P*

        Thanks. These are great points.

        I would love to put it all in email. Unfortunately the main contractor either takes 2 weeks to respond to emails or acts like he never received the email in the first place (and never sends read receipts). One of the other contractors “doesn’t do that email stuff”.

        I will try to ask for more clarifications, but am also dealing with being the only woman in an otherwise all-male project. My involvement is also often questioned because I’m not an architect, engineer or contractor.

  83. Blue Spoon*

    Hi All!

    Does anyone have advice on how to handle a struggling volunteer? I took over as the volunteer coordinator at the library where I work a couple of months ago, and one of my early “hires” has been struggling since I brought him on. I’ve given him a reference packet on how our shelves are organized and talked him through situations where he’s confused (on top of the initial training all volunteers get), but he still ends up shelving things in drastically incorrect places. I’ve tried having him find items that are on reserve, but lists that would take most people 15-20 minutes take him up to an hour, and he still struggles with things like reading the signs on the shelves to figure out which books are on which rows. I also had him folding and stapling informational packets that we hand out, but he mis-stapled them in a way I had specifically cautioned him against (he effectively stapled the packets shut).

    I’m running out of things I can possibly have him do without having to go back and re-do it, but at the same time he’s a nice, enthusiastic kid and hasn’t done anything that would justify “firing” him from the program. What, if anything, can I do?

    2. ferrina*

      A few thoughts:

      1. Is there an experienced volunteer who can take him under their wing and supervise his work? If you think it’s a case where you think some hand-holding will help, this could be an option. Just make sure you ask the experienced volunteer if they’d be willing to do this.

      2. Assign him things that are okay if they get messed up. Is there something that you’d like to have but don’t actually need to have? Something you don’t mind throwing away if it’s not good? In this strategy, you are just minimizing the harm that he can cause. But if you don’t want to turn him away and he regularly messes things up, this is a good way to protect your time (that you would otherwise be undoing his work)

      3. What is this kid actually good at? It sounds like reading comprehension and following directions are not his thing. What does he do well, and how can you capitalize on that? But if his skills don’t align with your needs and he can’t do what you need, is there a way you can gently let him go? If not, see option 2.

      1. HonorBox*

        I like #2 a lot!

        In addition, I’d offer two (maybe one and a half) suggestions.

        If you don’t have one, create a volunteer job description. I’ve seen these for volunteer positions I’ve held on non-profit boards. It lays out expectations, gives some ideas for responsibilities, etc. It isn’t as specific as what you’d expect for a paid position, but there’s a framework. It also gives you something to point to if the volunteer isn’t holding up their end of the bargain.

        Then with that, perhaps you set up a specific timeframe for volunteer roles. If someone is doing really well and you want them to stay on, you just roll into the next set time period. But if they’re not, you know what the end point is. Plus, that might give someone some better knowledge about an exit plan if they’re finding they need to reduce their participation and don’t know exactly how to go about it.

    3. Educator*

      It sounds like this might be a placement rather than someone who randomly applied. If so, do you have anyone at his school you can talk to? They might know more about his strengths and needs. I would frame it as “I see John struggling with learning our systems and following instructions. Are there any strategies that his teachers use to help him with those things?”

  84. Not-So-New Mom (of 2)*

    I work from home full time and have a nanny. earlier this year, we unknowingly got a ton of one-ply toilet paper from Costco. Obviously, being Costco, it took us a long time to get through all of it. I didn’t want to donate it anywhere because it just wasn’t good.

    At some point, my nanny started bringing her own toilet paper. She brings it in a tote bag, brings it to the bathroom, and then carries it back to her tote bag afterwards. This is mortifying for me as I’m sure it is for her.

    We’re done with the Costco toilet paper and now have two-ply again. Should I say something to her? Should I ask if she has a preferred brand she’d like me to buy? I want her to be comfortable in my house and I think our TP is now up to par…

    The other awkward thing is that this wouldn’t be the first time I have had to bring up bathroom stuff to her. 6 months ago, I had to ask my nanny to stop putting used toilet paper in the waste basket. She was really surprised and got a little defensive about how she’s clean, but she did stop. I’m glad she did because occasionally my toddler does get his hands in there.

    I can’t say for sure what started first, the toilet paper and the wastebasket instant, or the bringing her own toilet paper incident.

    She will routinely spend 10+ minutes in the bathroom multiple times a day, no phone, so I’ve always privately assumed she has Crohn’s or some issue like that. I don’t mean to minimize this issue for her of bathroom hygiene.

    1. ferrina*

      Can you mention it without directly say “I think you should know”?

      I’m a big talker, so I’d be able to say something like “I just got back from Costco and finally got more toilet paper. Last time I got the 1-ply by accident, and it was terrible but I didn’t want to waste it, so we’ve been using that stuff. We finally ran out, and I am so excited to have 2-ply toilet paper again! I can’t believe I’m so excited about toilet paper, but I’m embracing the joy where I find it.”

      1. JustaTech*

        I’d suggest this if it feels natural. Otherwise I’d go with Alison’s usual suggestion to embrace the awkwardness and say “hey, I know this is a weird thing to bring up, but if there’s a brand of toilet paper you prefer I’m happy to get it for you, I want you to be comfortable.”

    2. Vertigo*

      I mean, do you actually even have to mention it? Presumably she’ll use the bathroom and see that you’ve upgraded the toilet paper situation, so this might take care of itself.

    3. UKDancer*

      Putting paper in a bin is pretty common in parts of Greece and Turkey. I understand it’s because the pipes are very narrow. If you flush it then it clogs the pipes. When I go to Kefalonia or Santorini I have to adjust to the bin issue. If she’s from that part of the world that may be why.

    4. TP*

      Just FYI, most apartments I’ve lived in require the 1 ply TP or you clog the pipes. Something to be aware of if it matters this much to you.

  85. Ironically, I am not submitting my name*

    Any creative and marketing types able to weigh in on this? I’m a manager of a small dept in a government organization, and one of my new (very talented) creatives puts his name on all the drafts of design drafts that we end up reviewing, either internally or with other team members. It’s giving me pause, mostly because … why? … but also because my other (equally new) team member doesn’t do it, so I’m afraid there will be a perception that he’s doing more work than them because of the visibility of his name (and they do things that don’t lend themselves to this treatment, like social media). I know artists like to sign their work, yada yada, but this isn’t art, it’s in-house corporate stuff, and it just seems problematic to me. But I need a gut check from the commentariat here before I do anything.

    1. BellyButton*

      I put my name on all documents I create. I wrote the training and designed and created all the collateral, I want that to be seen and known. You should have a style guide so everyone is doing the same thing.

      1. H.C.*

        This is very contingent on the type of work product, though; for example, it would make more sense to have your name on a slideshow document for a presentation you’re giving versus a generic program brochure.

      2. NotNormal*

        You may want that seen and known, but it’s not normal practice and would be considered unprofessional by most.

    2. ferrina*

      Create or review? If you are creating, yes, put your name on it. If you are reviewing, it sort of depends on what the review is and what you mean by ‘putting their name on it’. Is the name for internal or external reference? If internal, how big is that?
      At my org, the marketing team puts their initials as part of the title of the reviewed content. It’s only really seen by the internal client. It’s helpful to me when I create content (I’m not in marketing, I create content for my programs) because I know who to talk to if I have questions, and if something ever goes wrong, there’s accountability (I can show that Georgia from Marketing approved the language).
      That said, it’s weird if the editorial team is adding their name to the byline of, say, an academic peer-reviewed paper. That’s not normal.

      I would ask my boss to double-check what protocol is. Or look at what previous people in your role have done (assuming the people in your previous role were known for doing good work).

    3. H.C.*

      During drafting/review, I don’t mind it – but the final product shouldn’t have the designer’s name unless they happen to be official contact for that program/event/etc. too. In your case, the product belongs to the department/gov’t org, not the creative (he was paid to create that product on behalf of the org.)

      On a more pragmatic note, if he ever should leave / transfer / promote out of your department, you wouldn’t want to deal with the headache of delete/updating/replacing all the final documents that has his name on it.

    4. NotNormal*

      This is abnormal and unprofessional. This is company owned work that should be attributed to the company. The only exceptions I’ve ever seen to this is company blog posts at companies that want to showcase staff that works there. I’ve written multiple books for companies and none of them mention my name anywhere, nor do related graphics, web pages, reports, or other IP I created for a company.

    5. Bike Walk Barb*

      I work in a large public agency. In my work create documents of various types, not designs. At the draft stage I’ll sometimes have my name in the footer with my email so people know who’s the keeper of the file and who to talk with about changes and questions. That’s only for ones circulating beyond my team; those on my team will know I’m the originator because the email with the draft for their review came from me in the first place.

      At the end of the day none of my documents will have a named author other than the agency unless I’m writing a blog post (we use bylines on those). They pay for my time and the work is created as part of my job. We might have an acknowledgements section that lists all the people involved in the work but that’s not on the cover.

      I’m directly aware of someone who used to work for the agency who expressed anger over not having their name on their work. They had come out of academia, where of course your name on your work is important for recognition and advancement. This was a culture shift they apparently weren’t prepared for and kept being angry about despite being coached on how inappropriate that was.

      You definitely need to establish guidelines that provide clarity on how to handle drafts and reviews so people know who to work with, which might involve a cover element to be deleted later that consistently names the originator or team, and a clear statement about corporate ownership of the final materials being created.

      If they apply for another job they’re likely to use these items as samples of their work, which would be okay with me as a hiring manager if they’re clear about the teamwork involved and what they actually contributed. I’ve seen someone I know claiming they “created” a logo when I know they oversaw the creative consultant who actually did the creating.

  86. Sisyphus*

    How would you all handle being the new person at a company (or in a department) where your colleagues are hostile to the fact that your position exists at all?

    I’ve run into this a couple of times now, where I’ve taken a newly created position somewhere and then found out multiple people don’t think it was necessary to hire someone to do what I’ve been hired to do. Said folks then behave in ways that range from garden-variety rude to outright obstructive–i.e., actively blocking the work I’m supposed to be doing, doing it (badly) themselves without consulting me, refusing to include me in meetings and processes I should be part of, and things like that.

    My strategy has been to start job searching when this happens, because taking it to my manager has never helped, and my instinct is that it’s management’s job to impress upon the rest of their team that they now need to work with X role when they do Y. But, is there something else I should be doing to sell the need for my role to other people when they act like this?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Given that you’ve been burned by this more than once, you should be asking explicit questions about this during interviews:
      “Why did you decide you needed to create this new position?”
      “Who has been doing this work before now? Are they ok with your new hire taking that over?”
      “How receptive to change are the employees in general?”
      “What’s the impact to the bottom line of having this new position?”

      And then during onboarding:
      “If I encounter push-back from existing employees about this, how do you want me to handle it? When do I escalate it to you?”
      “What authority will I have to enforce these new processes?”

    2. ferrina*

      Your user name is apt. Been there, done that, still have the recurring headache.

      My first suggestion was the same as Alton Brown’s Evil Twin. He lays it out much better than I would, so I’m just going to add a hearty seconding to everything he says.

      Once you are in the role, do a culture campaign. Winning hearts and minds is necessary for any kind of change or change management. Talk to people and really listen. Ask them about the current practices. What do they currently do X? What works well? What do they wish would work better? Really pay attention to what people like and dislike about their current workload. When possible, position your changes as reducing what they dislike so they can have more time to do the things that they like (I’ve had great success positioning my role as “I do X, because you are way too valuable to be spending your time hunting rogue raccoons”).

      Make sure that as you go, you are 1) cultivating personal relationship with people. I am not above providing baked goods as a bribe, and people know it. Make sure that you are consistently appreciative of how they are adapting to the change- they will appreciate you appreciation (and it’s positive reinforcement for them to continue adapting/complying) and 2) bring them in as stakeholders/SMEs. I will absolutely use consulting as a campaign tool. If you ask for someone’s advice/thoughts, they are flattered and they appreciate how you respect their expertise. Plus, it can get you a LOT more information. And this doesn’t have to be on technical expertise- I have people I go to to ask about cultural climate. “I’m thinking about changing Y to Z. What’s your gut reaction to that idea? What am I not thinking of?” It gives them a say in the changes, and it gives you a chance to troubleshoot.

      But yeah, some people will not be won over no matter what. And at that point there’s nothing to do but leave.

    3. BellyButton*

      Oof that is brutal. I had that happen one time, I was eventually able to get most people on my side once they truly understood what I did and my expertise was bringing to the team. My last 3 jobs have all been brand new roles. I went to each team member within my first few weeks to ask them about their role, how our roles work together, ask what they need from me, and to answer any questions they have. I have found going to people right away helps them realize I am a person who wants to be there and wants to contribute to the success of the team.

      If someone was icing me out or obstructing my work I would call them out on it “I understand that you didn’t think my role wasn’t necessary, but that isn’t my fault. I have a job to do and I am here to contribute to the success of this team. How can we get past this?” I go in with the mindset of collaboration.

      When interviewing for a new position I would ask some questions to try to get the feel of the team
      What was the driving force for creating this new position?
      What does the team need from the person in this role?
      Do other people do parts of this role that will now move from them to the new role? How do they feel about that?
      Does the other members of the team support the decision to create the new position?

  87. HailRobonia*

    My new challenge: Can I go a week without mentioning Ask a Manager to my coworkers?

    Answer: No, no I cannot. (my example from yesterday: we were at our annual summer celebration event and got on the topic of terrible bosses… I shared the story of the boss who was pressuring the employees to donate their liver – I said I couldn’t do the story justice and told people to check it out on AaM).

    I am so happy that my old boss (the best person I ever worked for – she was a great manager and fantastic mentor) turned me on to AaM! Obviously Alison’s advice and point of view has been invaluable, but I’ve really come to love the AaM community – I love sharing the laughs, tears, frustration, anguish, and laughs again with you all!

    1. HelloWorld*

      +1.

      Do you have a favourite question or category? My recent top question has been “I told my interviewer I never make mistakes”.

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        Haha, I try to NEVER menthol it at work because then my coworkers might identify me by my work stories.

        (Sorry Alison, but I have shared it with other friends and past coworkers to make up for it :)

  88. Still new*

    I have yet to hit 2 months at my new job, and people think I’ve been here for much longer (it seems.) I’ll get called in the meeting to answer something about historical data, or a meeting I haven’t been invited to yet, and I feel like no one’s happy when I respond with “Oh. I don’t know that yet. Or I wasn’t there for that meeting. I can find that for you later though.” And then my boss has to answer the question.

    When I explained to someone that I hadn’t been there more than a month or so, someone said they forgot and that the office throws people in so people just learn trial by fire. I was like uh… well, I am still learning by fire I guess?

    Is there something else I should be saying in these moments?

    1. HonorBox*

      Your response including “I can find that for you later” is perfect. When we do training, we call that “pass the buck.’ If you don’t know an answer, find someone who does, or offer to get back to someone. It works nicely.

      I think in your particular situation, though, I might ask your manager how they’d prefer you handle it. Maybe they want you to keep learning by fire, but maybe there’s a way they can get people to remember that you’re still in your training period and of course you won’t have answers to questions about something that happened more that 8 weeks ago. I think a good manager will appreciate that kind of question.

    2. ferrina*

      “That’s a great question! I haven’t had a chance to look at that since I started a couple months ago- let me dive into that and get back to you.”

      “Oh, I wasn’t at that meeting- I think that was before I started.”

      “I’m not sure- I’ve got a number in my head, but I don’t want to give you the wrong answer. Let me double-check that and get back to you.”

      The key is to be upbeat, proactive, and engaged in learning and growing.
      Side note- Trial By Fire is the dumbest form of onboarding. Some of this is normal when you start (some people fit in so well it feels like they’ve been there for longer), but some organizations really suck at onboarding and think “they’ll pick it up” is equivalent to an actual training plan. It sparks rage in me.
      If your company sucks at onboarding, this can help-when you have a free moment, chase down the three people that started most recently (but still before you) and ask them what they’ve had to learn. Ask what would have helped them to know in the first 3-6 months. These people should be folks at your level or similar who started within the last year. You can also ask what is expected for someone in your role to know, so you know what to study up on and who to talk to about what. If you find someone particularly helpful, make a plan to regularly grab coffee or sit down with them to pick their brain. This can help get you up to speed with the office culture and nuances as quickly as possible.

    3. EHSManager*

      I think your answer is fine. I try to say something like – I don’t know but I’ll find out and get back to you.

      I agree with the person who said it might be good to ask your boss how she wants you to respond to these. Does she want you to ask her, or is there a resource available to help you find the answers, etc.

  89. HelloWorld*

    How do people handle the transition into retirement?

    Initially, my parents found themselves to think everyday was like Saturdays initially. Then they became bored of not having someone tell them what to do: They have been in manufacturing and non-supervising jobs so they always had someone telling them the plan for the day. They now volunteer their time and work part-time.

    1. Bummer Friday*

      If there is any way to transition by working part-time or consulting for a year or so, this would really help! Gradually easing into “what do I do in retirement and when” worked for my dad. My spouse got out of the military and worked part-time for a while – it allowed him to see that yes, he still loved his hobby and could spend many days in his workshop.

    2. I strive to Excel*

      Can’t speak for myself (not retired), but both my mom’s parents got second, part-time jobs when they initially retired. Then they very slowly scaled down their work, going to part time and then less and less part time, until they both decided that the day-to-day grind was not for them and quit fully well into their 70s.

    3. Girasol*

      I retired all the way – no retirement job – and it works fine. There are old hobbies, new hobbies, camping, travel, volunteering, and all the exercise and reading I always meant to do. The house, landscape, and finances are as orderly as I always meant to keep them, too. What helps me is a few minutes with a journal in the morning to intentionally plan the day, and a weekly Google calendar update to slot chores in with hobby and outing plans, and scan to see if life looks balanced the way I want it. Retirement is kind of uncomfortable at first, facing wide open days after decades of having someone to tell you what to do and where to be, but it’s worth pushing through that awkward stage to figure out what you want to do when you run your own life. Working part time could ease you into retirement but it’s really not so bad just diving in the deep end.

    4. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

      I’m nearly 2 years into retirement. I made 4 motorhome trips of more than a week each during my first year, and then was diagnosed with Cancer. I’ve spent this year recovering from surgery and radiation, and I’m now cancer free.
      I started one hobby and restarted a second that had been neglected since prior to Covid. I’m spending some time working with a service organization that I belong to. Yes, there are days when I’m bored and the only reason I get out of bed is to feed the dogs, and I don’t get out of my PJs.
      I’ve put most of this in previous threads today.
      I have a tentative 2 year plan to continue to improve both hobby #1 and #2 to the point where I can teach small group lessons in my home. But if I find a traveling companion other than my dog, I may go back to my initial plan to have motorhome trips of a month or so several times a year. My service organization has a convention planned in Quebec City next year and I’m looking forward to traveling across Canada. I currently live in the desert southwest of the US.
      I have no desire to work or volunteer for something that happens on a regular schedule. For the most part I’m enjoying not being required to deal with coworkers or managers (introvert here). And not being required to take the annual online compliance trainings for my prior position at very large company!

      Retirement can be quite different for each person based on their situation. I’m glad your parents are finding activities that suit them.

  90. Lost*

    Anonymous because I’m paranoid. I’m a nineteen year old autistic female working at a retail clothing store.

    I used to have a bad problem with calling off. It largely started as an anxiety response to old management and the bad habits continued into new management, so I justifiably received an oral warning and was put on a performance improvement plan. I was very understanding and started to work like crazy, even going back for feedback more than once to see if I could improve further after the first week of the plan (wanting to show I was proactive). As a result of this, my GM upped my hours a bit after checking with me that it was okay for that week.

    Then he completely changed my schedule for the following week, which freaked me out as he had scheduled me for the one day I told him I wasn’t available. I told him, and he decided to list that day as a “call off” even though I’d told him I couldn’t work that day before he built the schedule. Then, in the middle of that week, he changed the schedule again and wrote me up for being late when I hadn’t been aware of the change. This completely restarted my performance plan, despite me practically working myself to death to be the best I could be.

    By the way, all of this happened last week.

    That brings us to this week and today. The ASM has been pressuring me into signing off that my register is balanced without allowing me to see if it’s actually balanced myself (which I’m supposed to see before I sign off) basically all week. I’ve been unable to tell my GM because he’s also been sick. Bringing us to today.

    I started having COVID symptoms at around 3-4 AM and took an (expired) at-home test that came back negative, and was then tested at urgent care at around 10 AM which also came back negative. Due to being symptomatic for such a short amount of time, it’s unlikely that it will come back positive; and yes, I’ve been exposed, as my brother has the virus.

    I come to work and explain this to the ASM (who was the manager on duty), and he puts me on the cash register. A lot of our clientele is elderly, so I was extremely nervous. Over two hours, it became harder and harder for me to speak due to my throat being sore and constricting in on itself.

    For the first hour I was able to tough it out, since I was listed as “Production/Cashier” on the schedule I thought the cashier coming in at 1PM would relieve me and I’d work production, away from customers and away from most of my coworkers. Instead my ASM pulled my other coworker away from the counter, and the incoming cashier also didn’t want to work with me (both of them have issues and can’t risk catching the virus, which I obviously told them about for their own safety).

    Of course, being basically the only cashier at that point and being required to speak kept aggravating my throat, and it got to the point of me barely being able to speak without crying. Not only does it hurt whenever I do something as simple as breathing, my autism makes it hard to push through it without crying like an absolute baby. So I went to speak to my ASM about what I should do.

    The ASM sent me home and told me to go to the doctor. I told him I’d been that morning and had a note prepared already (I’d prepared it in case management didn’t want me to do customer service whilst sick, since I had the appointment before speaking with them and didn’t know what they’d say). I gave it to him and went on my way.

    I’m concerned about it because part of my performance plan is that I don’t leave early (although I do believe it specified that I shouldn’t leave early unauthorized, and I was authorized by the manager on duty, and also I’ve never ever left early unless it’s been an emergency and I got permission from management, and I always have tried to make up the hours later. My attendance issues have nigh-exclusively been call-offs which I haven’t done for over a month now, aside for the strange Sunday scheduling issue mentioned earlier.). I’ll also note that I didn’t ask to leave, I only asked my ASM what I should do.

    Am I in the wrong for this? I’m in an at-will state so I know I can be fired for anything, so there’s no real advice for that. I’ve just been horribly sick today and even breathing is a painful chore.

    Should I have just tried to tough it out for another two hours? I was already practically crying.

    Advice is appreciated.

    1. PotatoRock*

      So two contradictory things can be true in a situation like this:
      1) you are not in the wrong to need to go home when you are so sick or in pain you’re at the point of tears AND
      2) reliability in a shift job is a really core requirement and yes, your pip might get extended or you might get fired for this. It’s great that you’ve only left early or called out for emergencies – but the unfortunate truth is that there is a limit to how many emergencies – no matter how legitimate – a retail job will accommodate you having.

      But here is some good news! If you do get fired, you will get another job, and a fresh start at that job. You’ll know everything you’ve learned at this job when you start the next, you’ll start out much stronger, you can build up a reputation for reliability, and then a single emergency won’t be a big deal – it will be okay.

      Hope you feel better soon!

      1. Lost*

        Thank you for the advice. I will say that for the past month aside from the incidents where management refused to communicate schedule changes (or the day he scheduled me I’d already told him I couldn’t work), I haven’t had a single incident. Not one.

        Also a phone call to the EEOC said that the way my schedule is being changed (since it’s severely impacting my disability, something they have knowledge of because I’ve repeatedly brought it up in asking them to just communicate to me before they upend my entire routine) could actually be disability discrimination… Although that’s another beast entirely.

        Thanks again for the kind words. <3

    2. Anono-me*

      YOU are not wrong. But you are in the wrong place. Please find something else such as Job Corp, a trade, or a good warehouse job.

      That was the short version. Here is the original:

      I think that you are doing your very best to do everything right after havinga toughtine and making some mistakes. But this is probably as good as this environment is going to get and you are miserable and tying yourself up in knots ‘to be worthy’ of a low paying retail job. And I’m guessing that it won’t get much better for you there anytime soon. I don’t want you to be miserable the rest of your working career. Please find a new position that suits you better. Most people work because we need the paycheck, but as much as possible we should try to find positions that we like at places that value us. (I know not everyone can , but I wish that everyone could. )

      I would like to suggest meeting with a career counselor (Your local public community college will probably have one at no or reduced cost, but might offer advice more related to their programs).

      Please don’t just look at white collar jobs. (If I had to do it all over again I would become a plumber with my own business focused on gov. new builds). If you aren’t in a position to consider trade school and are reasonably healthy, a good warehouse job might be better for you. But please check out their reputation before applying-you don’t want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

      Finally I would like to suggest you look at Job Corp since you are 19. It is a government program where you can get paid (with room and board) to learn a marketable skill .

  91. Busy Middle Manager*

    Just had a second round interview and one of the people was nice but clearly wanted someone who’d done the same exact job before.

    I don’t get it sometimes! If you want someone who’s done the exact same job instead of someone who’d done a 90% transferable role, you need to actively poach the competitor. Not list the job and interview people and then act surprised they didn’t do the exact thing before!
    Also if I did the exact thing, why would I want to switch jobs for same pay!

    1. Irish Teacher.*

      Well, I guess they might be hoping for somebody who has been laid off from a job where they did the exact same thing or somebody working in a toxic company doing the same thing and willing to get out at any price.

      It is definitely tough out there but if you look at it from the employers’ point of view, if they have a candidate or numerous candidates with experience in the exact same thing, it makes sense that they would take them before somebody who doesn’t have that experience. And if they can get such people without actively poaching the competitors, then there isn’t really any need for them to do that.

      I don’t know your field, of course, but if there have been a lot of layoffs or anything like that, then there might be lots of people with the exact experience they are looking for looking for jobs, at which point it becomes very difficult. I remember in the last recession going for interviews and having people with 15 years experience in the exact same role also interviewing for the same job because they’d been laid off, at which point I was thinking, “what’s even the point of interviewing? I haven’t a hope against these people.”

  92. Vertigo*

    This is a vent.

    I can’t deal with the job search anymore. In almost a year and a half of being unemployed, I have gotten two interviews. And one of those got cancelled because the organization eliminated the position.

    Depression and ADHD make it hard enough for me to apply for jobs (especially write cover letters), but at this point it really seems like I’m just throwing cover letters and resumes into a black hole. I know the advice about if you’re not getting interviews is to look at your cover letter, but I’ve had multiple people look at ones I write (including an actual vocational counselor), and while they’ve had a few tips on wording, nobody has said that it needed significant work. (I do try and tailor them to what I’m applying to as well.) Doing them already feels like torture to me normally, and at this point, I’m so fucking over putting effort into things that probably aren’t even being read. I read about other people out of work applying to like, 10-15 jobs per DAY when at my best I never have ever managed that by WEEK. My depression/ADHD has made basic stuff like showering regularly, leaving the house, and laundry feel daunting, so this whole thing feels like too much to handle. I’m stuck between “incremental progress is progress” and “you are a gigantic slacker who is never going to get a job with the flimsy effort you’re doing now”.

    I look at a job opening and if it asks for anything like “why do you want to work here” or “what is your interest in X” and my mind just shuts down. Nobody actually cares about the supposed passion for processing invoices or admin work, and I’m tired of pretending like it does. I’m running out of money, most retail isn’t an option for me (I’m pretty sure I can’t stand for 8+ hours regularly), and I would NOT be good as waitstaff, so I’m not sure where to look for a job that I can get quickly or more easily than an office job. (I’ve worked customer service but not retail so in addition to dreading working either of them I legitimately are not the best candidate). I’ve applied to temp agencies; they don’t get back to me.

    I’m so damn defeated, and the only thing I can do is keep going and shove even more effort in that I…just don’t have in me anymore.

    1. Lost*

      Hello! I’m depressed with ADHD as well. I understand where you’re coming from because I’ve been there, and also retail is complete torture.

      Have you tried looking up job readiness programs? I’m sure there’s some program that would be willing to help you find some employment. And I’d seriously suggest trying to find therapy if you haven’t already. None of this makes you weak or pathetic or whatever negative stuff you’re telling yourself.

      I confessed similar feelings to a nurse a few months ago and she told me something that practically rocked my worldview. I’ll go ahead and post it:

      “You’re just struggling. Struggling people don’t deserve hate, they deserve love.”

      So remember that. You aren’t failing just because you’re a failure that fails a lot, I promise. It’s okay to struggle. It’s even more okay to reach out for help.

      Much love! <3

      1. anonymous ADD*

        Sending sympathy. If you have a car would something like food delivery be an option? It isn’t a ton of money from what I’ve heard but would at least be some money and you can set your own hours. It would get you out of the house, too.

  93. David Rose*

    I broke down and cried in front of a coworker (who I do not manage, at my same pay grade). It was over work overwhelm/management stress, which I admitted. Is there any recovery for that level of unprofessionalism or do I just need to start job hunting way more aggressively

    1. spcepickle*

      I would assume they will never talk about it again.
      If you want to job hunt because your work sounds terrible that is one thing.

      But I have cried at work several times (personal stress a few times, once after a harsh talking down to, and once because of job stress). People are human and each time the person I cried to / near never brought it up again.

      If you have good standing and work with at all reasonable people it will blow over.

      1. HonorBox*

        I agree. It isn’t THAT unprofessional to cry. The fact that it was something the coworker is probably very familiar with and can certainly relate to makes it even less unprofessional.

        People have emotions. They leak out of our eyes sometimes. I think as long as it isn’t happening all the time, it’ll blow over and no one will speak of it again.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Unless this is a regular occurrence, I don’t think this will end up being a big deal for your coworker, especially since you explained feeling overwhelmed/stress. If you start doing this every day, that might alter their perception of you, of course.

    3. Goldenrod*

      It’s totally fine! We’re all people. It would only be a problem if it happened regularly.

      Once, after an unexpected demotion, I cried in front of a nurse (I was hospital staff). I was really embarrassed, but the next day she gave me a small gift (a little ceramic heart) and said that she believed that people should be able to be human beings at work.

      I appreciated it so much, and cherished her gift!

      Chances are that whoever witnessed your “human moment” just felt sympathetic and that’s it.

    4. Happy Camper*

      I cried in front of a co-worker this week out of stress as well. I’ve seen other co-workers cry in similar situations. If you work in a high stress environment it happens some times. If you explain and apologize. You’re fine.

    5. ShoneyHoney*

      I call this ‘business crying’. I don’t do it often, but when I do, I will say “oops! I’m having a little business cry, excuse me!” and then I step away until I’ve composed myself. Often I’ll go back and thank the person for being so understanding, and we laugh about business crying. It wouldn’t work everywhere, but it’s worked well at my more relaxed workplace.

    6. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

      I have cried in front of a handful of coworkers (and even my manager) more than once for similar reasons over the past decade or so, and each time the people involved have generally understood. Many of us have felt crushed by being overwhelmed at a job and most people will charitably pretend like it never happened (which is what I also try to do when I’ve had a coworker cry in front of me).

      Also, some people just cry more than others…and some seasons of work involve more crying than you’d usually do. I don’t cry a ton in my day-to-day life, but a few years back, my company moved from a building where our offices had solid walls to one where the walls facing the hallways were made of glass to let more natural light in for everyone. My manager at the time was a monster who was bullying me specifically and, I kid you not, my first thought upon finding this out was, “Wait, how am I supposed to cry in my office now?” (To be clear: this is indicative of an unhealthy work environment for sure, but that’s because no job should be making you cry on the regular, not because I was being unprofessional.)

      There are times when it’s good to examine if you’re being overly sensitive, but this doesn’t sound like one of those times.

      All that to say…many people have experienced extremely stressful periods at work or very stressful jobs that leave them in tears — sometimes even in front of coworkers. If you were breaking down weekly in front of someone, that would be an issue — and it would be good to question if the problem is with your emotional regulation capabilities or the job itself or some combination of the two. But one time? It would take a very unkind coworker to hold that against you.

    7. Irish Teacher.*

      That doesn’t strike me as any big deal at all. I’ve had coworkers in tears or close to tears in front of me. I’ve had coworkers ranting about how stressed they were. If anything, I have taken it as a sign of the trust they had in me that they felt comfortable confiding in me/being vulnerable in front of me. I definitely wouldn’t think them any less professional for it – crying isn’t something people do deliberately – or think any less of them.

      Yeah, as others have said, if you were in tears every day, that might affect how people think of you, but as a once-off. Totally normal, I’d say.

    8. Chauncy Gardener*

      NP!
      They will probably never mention it again.
      But if you feel like this is The Sign you need to move on, please do so
      Good luck!

  94. Commercial lease negotiations*

    Anyone here with experience in commercial leases? I’m looking for advice on how to negotiate an early end to my lease. I’ve had some unexpected personal changes that necessitate moving away and closing my business. The property manager has said the landlord would be open to possibly negotiating an earlier end, but I’m not sure how to start that process, or what’s reasonable to offer. Or do I let them make an offer first? Any resources or advice?

    1. Somehow I Manage*

      Are there any specifics in your lease about early termination? That will give you guidance for the worst case. You could go into the conversation knowing that and inquire about options they might be willing to accept.

      1. Commercial lease negotiations*

        Unfortunately no- I checked and there’s nothing in there so I’m kind of going in blind :/

    3. I strive to Excel*

      I’d check the local landlord & tenant codes. Often they have limits or requirements on lease-breaking (for instance, no-penalty breaks for domestic violence or military relocation). A lot of it will probably not be directly relevant but can be a helpful starting place!

      1. VH*

        Make sure you are checking the COMMERCIAL real estate laws. Those sort of exceptions are unlikely to apply in a non-residential context.

  95. hohohome*

    Two of our employees have a personal issue that is really mucking things up. Dee is in her 60s, and Lee is in his late 20s. They both do the same kind of work in the same space. Dee absolutely cannot stand Lee. Lee used to be kind of a pompous, swaggering blowhard, in her defense. Dee’s main complaint is that Lee talks a lot and a lot of what he says is objectionable to her as a Christian. He’s not saying anything that rises to the level of harassment or a hostile workplace, just things she personally disagrees with, like talking about music and drinking and such. We spoke with Lee a few times about his talking, and he has dialed it down considerably.

    He can work with Dee with no issue, but she dislikes working with him a great deal. She would speak poorly of him to other employees. If he started talking in their shared workspace she would very pointedly put on noise-canceling earmuffs – not even headphones, earmuffs. She started spending a lot of time away from her workstation, and eventually, without permission, moved her workstation to another office on the same floor to get away from Lee. Management allowed this because it meant they didn’t have to address the situation. Now she is turning down work, saying she can’t complete it since she doesn’t have a full office setup like they do in the main work space.

    Management was not inclined to get involved, but now that Dee is turning down work it’s a different story. No one comes out of this looking great – management should have stepped in much faster, and Dee is unwilling to budge, but Lee was *very* obnoxious and unpolished when he started working here, so I don’t doubt that he deserves some of the vitriol. However, work has to get done, and if Dee can’t complete work in her current location then she will have to move back to the main office space.

    How on earth do you professionally address a personality conflict that has gone on so long (2-3 years, at this point)? I don’t need them to get along, but I do need them to get to work.

    1. Educator*

      It sounds to me like Dee, not Lee, is creating a hostile workplace at this point. Religious discrimination also includes discriminating against someone for their lack of religion. If she is harassing him because his lifestyle does not align with her religions values, management needs to shut that all the way down. No one, no matter how obnoxious, deserves to be bullied.

      I would sit down with Dee and describe what I needed–work needs to get done, personal attacks need to stop, she needs to work in an office setup that facilitates productivity. I would tell her that those were non-negotiable requirements of her role, and ask if she would be able to continue her employment under those terms.

      1. hohohome*

        Thank you for this! Particularly “Religious discrimination also includes discriminating against someone for their lack of religion” – that is what was kind of floating around in my head that I couldn’t put into words. This entire response was perfect, thank you.

    2. Been There*

      Couldn’t disagree with Educator more, and Educator is making unfair assumptions about Dee just for being Christian. I am currently dealing with a Lee. If he was a pompous a-hole – that is going to be tough for him to overcome. After 2-3 years, I don’t know. The Lee in my world was a jerk 2 years ago to me. Decided to give him a chance, and he was a jerk again. I feel for Dee. Can you get her the setup she needs? Nobody likes dealing with a Lee.

      1. Educator*

        It’s great for commenters to have different perspectives, but I’m not making any assumptions about Dee based on her religion–that’s a pretty wild accusation! I am responding to the behavior described in the post.

        Dee–“she dislikes working with him a great deal” “would speak poorly of him to other employees” “would very pointedly put on noise-canceling earmuffs – not even headphones, earmuffs” “is turning down work”

        Lee–“used to be kind of a pompous” “was *very* obnoxious and unpolished when he started working here” “not saying anything that rises to the level of harassment or a hostile workplace, just things she personally disagrees with” “he has dialed it down considerably” “he can work with Dee with no issue”

        Based on this, I see Lee as a young employee who stared unpolished but is responding to feedback, making an effort to work with Dee, and never crossing the line from obnoxious to inappropriate. Dee appears to be actively criticizing Lee, refusing to work with him, being pretty insulting with the earmuffs, and refusing to do her job.

        I’m sorry you are dealing with a jerk. Every situation is different. In the situation described above, I see Dee as the one creating the issue–not based on my assumptions about any religion, but based on the words in the post. Personality conflicts at work are not about who people are, they are about how people behave. And when someone interferes with another person’s work or reputation for mentioning perfectly legal and appropriate things that are objectionable to their religion, that’s discrimination.

  96. PivotTime*

    I’m having a kind of defeatist day. I left my job earlier this year to go to school full-time, and am looking to transition to another field (library to legal). While I don’t regret leaving, and I’m almost done my degree (which I couldn’t have done if I’d stayed), I thought I’d have a job in my new field by now. Thing is I don’t 100% know what it is I want to do with this degree.
    I’ve been applying, but due to where I live there’s not a ton of jobs. I’ve tried looking for remote work, but not found anything. I’m currently trying to get access to career help from the career services at my school who don’t seem to want to do their jobs. I feel like I take 1 step forward, and 3 steps back. Add in family illnesses, and a housing situation that fell through, and I feel like I’m flailing in a void of uncertainty.
    People who have done career transitions or felt defeated while they looked for a job: what’s 1 thing you did that helped keep you going? (I’m already in therapy btw)
    Thanks in advance.

    1. Kitten*

      I’m so sorry. Are any of the faculty in your program accessible or open to students? They might have better networks in your field. Student clubs?

      1. PivotTime*

        Thanks Kitten! I do have links with prior professors but it hadn’t occurred to me to reach out. I’ll do that. Thank you1

    2. Chauncy Gardener*

      Is there an internship coordinator at your school? Sometimes they’re better than the career center. Or maybe try a different person at the career center?
      Also try the alumnae center at your school. They generally are very connected with previous grads and may have insight into any openings at their companies.
      Good luck!!

  97. neon dreams*

    I was exposed to covid unknowingly on Wednesday night (from a baby my friend is fostering.) I went to work as normal and didn’t find this out until 2 pm today when friend texted us who were there. How soon should I tell work? I’m starting to get a sore throat but I don’t know if it’s stress or covid. I work in a small open office. thanks.

    1. cleo*

      For me, the right thing to do is to tell the coworkers you’ve been in contact with since your exposure as soon as possible. Today.

      Symptoms can take a few days to develop but you can still be contagious before you have symptoms. You need to give your coworkers as much information as possible so they can make their own decisions.

      I personally experienced this earlier this summer. I was exposed to someone with covid while I was traveling out of state. They tested positive a day after I saw them. I felt fine, until maybe 5 days later when I got sick and tested positive. I am VERY GLAD that I didn’t wait for until I tested positive but started isolating (as well as I could) as soon as I found out I’d been exposed.

    2. Maggie*

      I would take a test and then give them a heads up, and inform them it was either negative or positive.

    3. Pocket Mouse*

      Answering late, but echoing cleo: immediately. You don’t know other people’s health situations and they may need to be more careful than you are aware of. And I hope you put on a mask the moment you found out!

  98. CommsMan*

    I am looking for ways that I can decline requests for my help on projects happening months out when I know I will no longer be with the company, but I haven’t given my notice. How do you politely decline without giving a reason?

    Background:
    I am moving to a new country in December. I plan to give notice in September because I am hoping to transition into a contractor role. However, even once I give my notice, based on past experience, I expect that I will be asked to keep it under wraps while they decide if and in what capacity to keep me on.

    In the meanyime, I support several Teams with lots of different kinds of work, some of which is planned well in advance. The specific request I currently have is to teach a training I have given for the last few years that will be taking place after my departure and just two weeks after I arrive in my new country when I plan to not be working so that I can acclimate and recover a bit from the immigration stress.

    I’m sure I will be dealing with this more and more as the time draws close!

    My one thought was to say I will be out of the country that day (being non-specific about why), but they might just ask if I can do it a different day instead!

    1. Annie*

      I would stick with your proposed reasoning (can’t do it because I’m traveling internationally) but instead of “that day”, say “during that time period” or don’t specify a time period they can try to work around, e.g. “Unfortunately I won’t be available to host the training this year due to planned international travel”.

  99. GS*

    Was hoping to get here a bit earlier as really need people’s help and advice! I’m unfortunately in the position where I have to interview and recruit some people. I do not have any choice about this, and I don’t have any resources/support/documentation. This is nowhere near anything I know about and, well… I’m freaking out. Can anyone recommend some useful resources please? Googling it is very, very overwhelming

    1. That Snake Wrangler*

      What do you need help with? Are you looking for resources on how to write a job description, recruit candidates, conduct interviews and/or background checks, or something else along those lines? What are you freaking out about, specifically?

    2. Annie*

      This very website is a good start! At the very top, there is a TOPICS link where you can search the archives by category. From there, choose hiring, and you’ll find guidance on every aspect of what it takes to hire effectively.

    3. Chauncy Gardener*

      Seconding checking out the resources on AAM.
      Do ask around your company to see if they require any kind of agreement that employees need to sign. Do they need a background check? Is there an offer letter template? Etc.

      But generally, the process is this:
      1. Write the job description. Then run it by peers, managers etc to make sure you got everything. Also ask around to see if there are other job descriptions that have been written at your company and leverage those. Who knows? There may even be a template floating around.
      2. Decide what the interviewing process will be like (or ask your manager), who will be interviewing and how many rounds. Decide which questions you want to ask for the different rounds of interviews and who should ask them. At my company we tightly control who deals with which topics and if, say, I had a concern, I’d ask the next person to press on it. We do several rounds because we’re all remote and we want the candidates to get a good feel for us and vice versa
      3. Post the job. My company uses Breezy and via that, I can advertise the role (for a fee) on LinkedIn and other places
      4. Review the resumes. You will probably get a lot of them. It can be overwhelming at first, but the more you review, the faster you’ll get. You’ll also perhaps decide that you need to tweak the job description because you’re not getting people who fit.
      5. Email candidates to set up a phone screen.
      6. Do phone screen. If good, set up an in person or Zoom/whatever interview
      7. Lather rinse repeat until you have a great candidate that you want to make an offer to
      8. Check references (I do 2-3, NEVER their current manager)
      8. We do a verbal offer first, send over all the benefits info, discuss start date, comp, bonus, etc. Once everyone agrees:
      9. Send offer letter via DocuSign, you sign it, they sign it and you’re good to go
      10. I always email all candidates that I’ve at least spoken to to tell them we’ve gone with another candidate. I’ll get a lot of criticism here probably, but I generally don’t email everyone who has submitted a resume to reject them. Why? Because if you’re a landscaper/accountant/interior designer and have sent your resume in for a software engineer role, with no cover letter explaining why you’re a good fit for said role, then I assume you’re just spamming your resume out there and I don’t have time for you either.
      Good luck!

  100. Ranita*

    Any suggestions for careers that are easy to break into?

    My husband got laid off about a year ago and hasn’t been able to find another job as a product manager. He is a really smart guy and very capable. He can pick up anything quickly. He would be open to some more education, but hopefully something he can do relatively quickly or while he already has a job since he needs to start working. He has a bachelor’s degree in the humanities, so check that box but not with anything useful.

    Ideally a remote position, and not customer-facing. He’s good with numbers, no experience with coding, great at thinking holistically about an issue. I am of course biased, but he is the type of guy who will do great at any number of jobs but has no formal qualifications so needs a field that will give him a chance to prove himself.

    1. spcepickle*

      If you live in Western Washington State I would tell him to apply with the state ferries. I like working for state government and I think people are often surprised at how broad their local governments are hiring. There are some tricks to getting a resume through the sometimes complicated HR process associated with government, and I have found that government jobs seems to mostly existed on that particular branch of the governments website only. But as someone who hires for the state of Washington we will often have like 4 applicants for a position. Look at your town / city level, county / borough level, and state level. Also Washington State is leaning into telework and I know many of the other local agencies are.

    2. Kitten*

      Getting a project management certification is pretty easy. Check if local community colleges offer it. That could pull together his experience. Lots of jobs in logistics or that need project management

    3. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      What about a product owner (which are not client facing roles)? He can get a CSPO certification fairly easily and with his experience as a product manager, it may easier for him to study/pass.

  101. CuriousTeacher*

    Random question: Does anyone here work in (or know anything about) museum or zoo/aquarium exhibit development? I’m currently a high school science teacher but I’m looking to change careers in a few years. Planning, researching, and writing labels for exhibits sounds so interesting! But admittedly, I know almost nothing about it. Some questions I have:

    1. What kinds of roles exist in this field, and what does each one do? I have strong writing skills and zero visual design/artistic skills, so I’m hoping there are roles that don’t need those strengths.

    2. Are there well-know agencies, job boards, or other resources I could poke around in to find out more about employers or jobs in this field?

    3. What are some skills and experiences that would make someone successful in this field? Is there anything I can do now to demonstrate or gain those skills/experiences? (For example, develop a portfolio of hypothetical exhibits, try to get some writing published (where?), etc.?)

    4. I worked in both animal care and public education at several zoos/aquariums before getting into teaching. However, these jobs were fairly routine and entry-level (not to mention over a decade ago), so I can’t really point to specific accomplishments or even offer references at this point. Is it worth bringing this experience up in a resume or cover letter?

    Thanks so much for anyone willing to share!

    1. Museum Ex*

      I’m not personally aware of job boards specifically for exhibit development, but I recommend looking at the top-level job sites for museums and zoos, knowing you’ll need to sort through lots of other job functions.

      AAM (American Alliance of Museums): https://aam-us-jobs.careerwebsite.com/jobs/

      ASTC (Association of Science-Technology Centers): https://www.astc.org/resources-and-learning/jobs-in-science-engagement/

      AZA (Association of Zoos & Aquariums): https://www.aza.org/Jobs/

      There are also various state, regional, and subject-area alliances/groups worth looking at, which often serve smaller institutions that may not post jobs to the big boards. For instance, the Museum Association of New York, the Small Museum Association, and the American Association for State and Local History. A fairly general google search with your state or region should find ones relevant to you.

      There are a variety of titles to look at. I’d start with: exhibit(ion) writer/developer/designer (“designer” here will sometimes include folks who aren’t visual/graphic designers—think designing a cohesive narrative experience) and interpretive/interpretation writer/manager/developer/designer. Generally it *won’t* be “curator,” although you may occasionally come across someone like a “curator of interpretation/education” whose work includes writing exhibit content.

      The museum job market is perpetually difficult and, with a few exceptions, underpaid. Lots of people have to relocate to where the job is, and then to where the *next* job is, unless you’re in a major metropolis like NYC/LA/Chicago. I say this to be realistic, not to discourage, because the work is absolutely awesome (while also, obviously, being a job with boredom/irritation/etc. like any other).

      Your background in teaching is helpful—you’ve probably written interpretive-type content in some way already. It’s about conveying information but beyond that, making connections and inspiring interest in your audience; good science teachers do that! And mentioning your older zoo experience likely wouldn’t hurt, especially if you can connect it to your current career interest/passion for the field.

      Best of luck to you!

      1. CuriousTeacher*

        Oh man, moving for the job and low pay were the two main reasons I got out of animal care! I was hoping the more “office-based” jobs might be different. Thanks for sharing all this info! It’s definitely given me a lot to think about.

    2. Snoozing not schmoozing*

      Those jobs vary so much, depending in the size of the institution and other factors. In smaller places, a curator would also design and install exhibits and create the text. In larger museums, the curators have input and do the research, but the exhibit design team creates the exhibit and they would also create the labels. Some places have separate research and writing teams who work in tandem with curators and designers. Many places also have education departments that focus on interpretation for school groups and other children. And don’t forget separate interpretation and obligation teams who create the exhibit catalogues!

    3. ?*

      I am not actually in the field but I did a joint degree in museum education and childhood education and interned in museums alongside student teaching. Obviously teacher salaries are not known for being amazingly high, and this will vary by location, but if you’ve been teaching for a while I would guess moving to museum work would involve a pay cut. I loved my museum work but ended up going into teaching because the pay was better and there were way more jobs available. If you can find time to do some volunteering at a local museum that might be a good way to start building relationships and to find people you can talk to about what museum work looks like in your area.

      1. CuriousTeacher*

        Yeah, when I tell people my first year teacher salary was a significant pay *increase* from animal care, they’re usually pretty shocked. I was hoping that the “designing” jobs were somehow on a different level from animal care. Thanks for the info and suggestions though!

    4. MathGeek*

      I don’t know where you’re located, but check out this website:

      hireculture dot org

      Their “about” statement says “Hire Culture exists primarily for the benefit of nonprofit arts, science, and humanities organizations in Massachusetts”

      I’ve seen ads for similar positions as you describe.

  102. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

    So, I’m updating my resume (really…more like revamping it) because my job is ending at the end of September and I’m trying to not be unemployed for too long. It’s been awhile since I’ve had to do this, though, and I’m wondering what to do about a couple of things.

    1. I’ve been a member of my company’s Toastmasters club for five years and served in a leadership position for one of those years. Is there any benefit to adding this somewhere (only if I have room, obviously)? I have solid communication and presentation skills, even if presenting still makes me nervous, and some jobs in my field do specify a desire for that since it’s not uncommon for someone in my position to have to present data. But my brief amount of research has left me unsure about including it.

    2. I finally got my bachelor’s degree at the age of 36, hooray! This degree is literally in the job I already have been working in for years, so it truly was just something to get done so I can hopefully have a salary bump and not have my application kicked out by automated filter programs. So…should I list the year I graduated? Does it matter? Because it’s not as if I am switching the work I do based on this; I have been working as a data professional for seven years — specifically working as a data analyst for nearly five — and my degree is in data analytics. (Also, should I list the associate’s degree I got back in 2010 now that I have a bachelor’s? Or is it obsolete?)

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Toastmasters leadership: yes, if you have space and it doesn’t push you onto a second page!
      Degree: yes bach, no associate, no year.

    2. Kitten*

      Put toastmasters in a non work section like training, service/volunteer work or leadership. If public speaking is involved with the job, you could mention it in a cover letter. If any reviewer has been in toastmasters it is notable to them .

      If the associates is different than the bachelors you can list it. Do put it on your LinkedIn. You don’t need the dates

  103. AnonyMooseBitMySister*

    Keeping this vague but rather than targeting the people who are always 15+ minutes late, where I work is doing a butts in seats if you aren’t working every second you are at your desk you are stealing time and if you are a few minutes late you are too.

    The thing is, we live in a city with terrible roads and we can’t predict a transit catastrophe. Sometimes I can leave at the time I need to so I can be 5 minutes early and be 5 minutes late. Sometimes I leave when I would end up 5 minutes late and be 5 minutes early.

    Not only that, but all the clocks are different. If you’re calling me late by the clock that is 5 minutes fast, and then telling me I’m leaving early by the clock that is 5 minutes slow, it’s weird. Also most of us take a slightly shorter lunch if we are a little late.

    But it feels like we are ALWAYS being watched, and it’s super infantalizing.

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      This sounds like a terrible place to work!
      Are there any other opportunities elsewhere?

  105. That Snake Wrangler*

    I’m filing a complaint against my really, really terrible boss. The HR person got back to me and said that I need to state why do I believe that my boss is behaving the way he is toward me or other staff.

    And my question is: Is that a normal thing to ask? Why is his reasoning even relevant? and I have no idea why he’s a turd, other than he is a raging asshole with a superiority complex. How do I professionally write that it’s just his personality?

    1. Anono-me*

      Is it possible that the HR person is concerned that the bad behavior may be due to bigotry or retaliation for lawful actions?

      1. That Snake Wrangler*

        Maybe? I feel really uncomfortable saying that he’s sexist, but all his worst comments have been towards women and one man who is Indigenous. I’m really not sure how to word that, though.

        1. Retail Dropout*

          You could say that you suspect his behavior is due to your coworkers’ protected characteristics, specifically their sex/gender identity and race. I know it’s uncomfortable, but it’s important to call it like it is

        2. PotatoRock*

          Yes, this is a normal thing for HR to and this is why: “my boss speaks condescendingly bc he’s a smug fill-in-the-blank” is a different HR issue than “my boss speaks condescendingly to the women and minorities he manages; and totally differently to white men”.

          (If it’s more comfortable, you can say something like: “I don’t want to speculate on motivation, but I have observed that Boss treats people of different genders and races differently… for example, he often talks over and interrupts women, and almost always only asks men for input in our weekly team meeting. In the last few weeks, he’s said XYZ to A, B, C and I have never heard him make that kind of comment to a white male report”.

  106. Anono-me*

    Can anyone recommend a simple kid friendly business accounting ledger? A tween relative is going to start a small crafting business and I would like to give them a way to keep their books (They have limited screen time). Preferably something that both teaches basic concepts and keeps the accurate business records.

    Thank you.

    1. Part time lab tech*

      Maybe ask at the library for a basic bookkeeping book and buy a blank accounts book from any stationary or office store? Excel is good enough as well.
      She really needs something simple for a small hobby business. Just income, expenses (don’t forget their labour and overhead), profit and loss.
      If she gets into it, understanding write offs and cash flow is important. Include any bank of mum of dad even if you give it back to them.

  107. Retail Dropout*

    Am I off-base/biased for thinking that descriptors like “Follower of Christ” aren’t super appropriate for your LinkedIn profile? I see it here and there on profiles and think that, while it’s perfectly fine for personal social media like Instagram or Facebook, LinkedIn isn’t really the best medium for it (assuming your job isn’t directly related to some religious belief, like if you were a Christian speaker or a minister or something like that)

    1. RagingADHD*

      Linkedin is for marketing yourself however you want to. It is not actually a work environment where people are forced to be a captive audience.

      It’s going to put some people off, but presumably they know that and don’t care. It’s a very specific statement about how they want to present themselves, but it’s not any more inappropriate than putting a bumper sticker on your car or wearing a t-shirt to the mall.

      1. Retail Dropout*

        That’s fair. I think I’m just coming from the perspective that LinkedIn is a more specific form of social media where you should focus pretty much exclusively on work-related accomplishments/happenings, which for most people aren’t religious in nature. But obviously, people can represent themselves however they’d like, and if that means including statements about their personal faith on LinkedIn, that’s their call

    2. Lost*

      Hello!

      I’m biased as a Christian and I don’t touch Linkedin, but if there’s a spot for personal information and it’s in that spot, I don’t see why it would be a problem? Maybe it would help to have that part explained to me a little more lol.

      1. Retail Dropout*

        I’m definitely biased too as someone who isn’t religious, but I guess my perspective is that LinkedIn is designed to be narrowly focused on your work accomplishments, and if religious faith isn’t a part of the work you do, it doesn’t really make too much sense to me to include it on your LinkedIn. Obviously though, LinkedIn is still a social network, and if someone wants to include that as a way of defining their identity online, that’s totally their call :)

        1. Lost*

          Ah!

          I will say that for Christians their faith often plays a part in everything they do in some way, shape, or form, even if their main job isn’t religious. For example, I work at a thrift store and there are days I’m unable to work due to religious observances, not to mention I’m pretty staunchly defendant of the code of ethics due to my unwillingness to lie (which also stems from my faith).

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        As a fellow Christian, it strikes me as a bit…braggy? Like they are claiming their views are sanctioned by Christ. Something like Catholic/Episcopalian/Baptist/whatever denomination they happen to be wouldn’t bother me, but in my experience, there tends to be a fairly strong overlap between people who identify as things like “follower of Christ” and people who think God and/or Christ agree with all their views and that anybody who disagrees with them on anything “isn’t a true Christian.” And who also equates “Christian” with “good person.”

        And while everybody’s religious or spiritual beliefs (assuming they have any) will affect all aspects of their life, just as a person’s culture will, I would be concerned that somebody who identified like that would bring religion into the workplace in a problematic way, not just by things like not being willing to lie or needing time off for religious services or not being able to work on Sundays, but in ways like pushing their beliefs on others or being unwilling to use the correct pronouns for trans or non-binary people or assuming other Christians shared their political and theological views and not realising how many differences there are between denominations. At the extreme level, I am thinking of the young woman who wrote in here about how she insulted the boss’s daughter and appeared to assume the boss would agree with her because he was also a Christian and she thought all Christians thought dating immoral.

        Obviously, not everybody who identifies like that holds those kind of views but I have noticed an overlap and in a work related context, you don’t really want to make people wonder if you might be one of those who does.

        I may be being somewhat unfair but that kind of wording always gives me the impression of somebody who feels that all their views are those of Christ and therefore anybody who disagrees with them on anything is also disagreeing with Christ.

    3. Annie*

      It may be a way to subtly tell people with bad intentions to stay away. There’s research indicating that people displaying evidence of conforming to a moral code, e.g. the “Follower of Christ” phrase in a LinkedIn profile, are less likely to be asked to do something unethical.

      Link to study: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26157390

      2. Rainy*

        It’s sort of hilarious that anyone would think that Christians are necessarily ethical, given, uh…I don’t even know where to start the list, honestly.

        When I see “follower of Christ” on someone’s LinkedIn or in their email signature I do make assumptions, but “this person is ethical” has never been one of them.

        1. Goldfeesh*

          I read it as: I have to announce to the world I’m ethical because people would assume differently otherwise if they knew me.

    4. Kitten*

      It tells you that this person wants you to know that they value their religion more than standard workplace norms and etiquette. Helpful data

  108. Emotional Support Baguette*

    Newly discovered strategy for cover letters. Using speech to text to talk about why I would be uniquely suited for the position and then editing it into an actual cover letter.

  109. Isabel Archer*

    He’s demanding $100k from the company that fired him for stealing large sums of money? What’s the logic on that, exactly?

    All joking aside, his statements are alarming (he “doesn’t care if you kill him”?!). Yes to the email filter and the self care recommendations, but also please be careful. Unhinged can turn into dangerous. Is there any security at your office, like needing a key fob to get in? Cameras on the parking lot? Would you recognize his car? I’m not trying to scare you, but trust your gut and don’t talk yourself out of taking extra precautions.

  110. Rainy*

    We move next week and I start my new job the week after! I had dinner with the two people I’m closest with in the office (genuine friends) yesterday, ten days after my last day in office. My office has done absolutely nothing for me. Typically there’s a happy hour or outing of some kind, and I told enough people what I’d want for that that I figured the knowledge was out there, but my director is furious with me for leaving and even more furious that I was honest about why, and that I’d been looking.

    The office got me a cheese plate at my last staff meeting. I guess that was my sendoff.

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      Geez! That’s too bad.
      Living well is the best revenge!
      And your ex director is a jerk

  111. Jaya*

    So update on the job hunt: I have a round one interview for a remote position on Wednesday morning, and a Round 2 at a different firm for an onsite position. The firm pays well and has good reviews; the downside is that it’s a 50-minute commute without traffic, five days a week. And they were kind to reschedule when I had to email last week and explain that I was sick from traveling. And that’s if I get it, and I am working hard to not sabotage myself by preparing to arrive on time, practice questions, and choose the best suit.

    Trying to stay patient and open-minded; I don’t know how to feel that if things go well Wednesday, I could be done job hunting. But if it doesn’t go well, I’ll still be job hunting while being crushed at having made it so close. And what if the rules have changed for in-person meetings? Not to mention that I have applied to some retail jobs and such, and need to figure out a short-term backup plan.

    1. Rainy*

      Fingers crossed for you! I recently left my old job of nine years and start my new job in September. I will try to transfer to vibe via telepathy ;)

    2. Chauncy Gardener*

      Good luck! And remember that you are interviewing them as well.
      And run the numbers on the commute vs the increase in pay to make sure it goes in your favor.

  112. burt*

    What’s reasonable to restrict when it comes to Internet use at work?

    For example, I supervise a team of sales clerks who use two computers for our CRM system. They keep syncing their personal Google or Outlook accounts to the browsers. Pre-COVID, this was never allowed; all personal browsing was to be done in private mode.
    I think this is a major security issue, for one thing—we deal with credit card info, contact info, etc. Also, Outlook accounts specifically have caused problems as we use Microsoft and it syncs *the whole computer* to the person’s Microsoft account. And it’s also a risk for their security.
    I also don’t want them saving passwords to the browsers.

    I want to go back to the private mode rule for a number of reasons. But also, I’m not an IT person and I don’t want to piss people off for no reason. Maybe it’s just me. So, do any of you know the answer? Or if not, what kind of person should I consult on this sort of thing? Our IT company? Some kind of security consultant?

    1. Somehow I Manage*

      I would bring it up to IT. My read of your question makes it seem like you have an outside IT company. I’m very familiar working at places that have outside IT. In my experience, it would be as simple as asking someone from the company if what you’re seeing is a practice that should be shut down. I would guess that they’d agree that there are potential hazards and they might have ways to configure the computers so people can’t log in to their personal accounts.

  113. Wolf*

    A coworker of mine is putting flyers for (probably) his wife’s MLM in the office kitchen. The kind of MLM that sells magical health potions. We’re a pharma company, so this is a bit weird to have in our office. I’m a bit worried that having their flyers in our space makes them look more legit than they are, by association with a “real” pharma company.

    So far, I’ve been throwing away the flyers. Do I ask him to stop? He’s someone I never had contact with, I just recognized his last name on the flyers.

    1. Lost*

      I’d suggest bringing it up to management. I know at my store (which isn’t even a pharmacy) we can’t have any advertisements for anywhere else; I’d imagine you can’t advertise essential oils as medicine at a pharmacy.

      Good on your coworker for trying to support his wife though.

    2. HonorBox*

      While late in replying @Wolf, I think you should take this up with HR or your manager. It seems like opening the door to any sort of outside advertising, especially MLM, and double especially an MLM that focuses on health, or “health” it could open a door that you can’t close. It would be best if someone higher up could shut this down.

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