employee wants us to pay for Ubers when they work late, does using a computer in meetings make me look bad, and more

by Alison Green on September 23, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Employee wants us to pay for an Uber when they have to work late

A member of our team does not have a car and uses the bus for transportation. The role has occasional evening work (2-4 times a year), and the bus they take stops running in the early evening. Is it reasonable for them to request reimbursement for an Uber home in these situations? I feel like I’m being unreasonable if I say no, but we don’t reimburse gas/mileage for people who drive to work. Isn’t this an expense they have assumed by not having a car?

Eh. If the job frequently required working past the time public transportation was running, then yes, this would be an expense they assumed by not having a car. But expecting someone to have a car because they have to work late 2-4 times a year isn’t reasonable or realistic. You’re not obligated to cover the cost of an Uber home, but I would. It’s worth the relatively small expense to have an employee feel you’re taking care of them when they’re going above and beyond for you, and to not feel resentful that they lose money by meeting the needs of their job on those days.

Obviously the flip side of this is what to say if an employee with a car complains their own travel expenses aren’t covered on those days. You can point out that their commute expenses aren’t any different on those days than on others, but if they’re ever in a situation where that changes (like their car in the shop when they need to work late), you’ll cover it for them as well. If that ever becomes so burdensome as to be unrealistic, you can revisit it then, but it probably won’t.

2. My coworker jumps to answer the phone, then complains about it

At work we have a system for the phones: It rings twice to the secretary, then everyone’s phone rings until someone picks it up. We’re all supposed to take turns answering the phone when the receptionist is out, and she only works half days so that’s pretty frequent.

I have a coworker who is unnaturally fast at answering the phone; sometimes she gets it before the first ring has even stopped. She is almost always the first person to answer it, and then she complains constantly about being the only person who answers the phone. I mean, seriously every time I talk to her, she’s mad about the phones. I’ve tried explaining that if she lets it ring longer, the rest of us will have a chance to help, but because she answers it so fast no one else can touch it. Then she’ll go on a long tangent about being happy to help, and it’s fine, but she just wants everyone else to help with the phones too.

I don’t how to explain to her that she’s not giving people the chance to help her. She’s mad about a problem she created and won’t take advice on solutions, but she does want to complain. Is there anything I can do to help her see the obvious solutions? Are there solutions or something else I’m missing here?

If you’ve already tried explaining it, probably not — she’s getting something out of martyring herself over this. But you can certainly try saying, “Would you please do me a favor? Would you spend one week not answering until the third ring? I can almost guarantee you that other people will jump in and handle it, and you won’t be upset anymore.” If she refuses to try that and continues complaining, then you can respond with, “Well, you know the solution, so if you want it to change, that’s what you should try.” Feel to also ask point-blank, “Why don’t you?”

3. Does using a computer in meetings make me look bad?

A mentor/consultant I’ve been working with said something to me this week that has me slightly boggled: that if I use a laptop to take notes during meetings, I’ll be seen as a “secretary” (her word). I know there are many old, tired tropes about admin workers, and I’m not trying to promote them, but I also want to be realistic and aware of how I might come across to more senior colleagues or other outside stakeholders whose impressions might matter.

For context, I’m a mid-30s woman (but I often look/dress on the younger side day to day, no makeup), working in a creative-ish role in a non-creative industry (which can come with its own perception issues — though I’m working on telegraphing “organized” vs. “bursting with ideas” in meetings/presentations). We have a fairly casual-dress office and I have generally positive relationships with my colleagues, but there are one or two senior staff who don’t seem to view me/my role with as much professional respect as I’d like to develop, so the nuance is part of what I’m considering important.

The comment was made 100% as helpful advice from a really experienced consultant whose read on things has so far been pretty spot-on, who has a strong understanding of our local community, and who seems to be really attuned to politics/vibes of how things look and how to work with that reality. I trust her.

AND I can’t help but wonder if this is really true!?!? I have colleagues who use computers in meetings 100% of the time and seem to telegraph “I am a productive and maybe nerdy multitasker” and not “I’m the note-taker,” but they’re male and tech-adjacent, and I know the standards are not the same, even subconsciously.

But I really rely on being able to take notes, especially during long meetings, and I’m worried that trying to avoid them will just result in me being less organized and missing stuff. I’m not always able to jot down notes right after a meeting.

How much weight should I put on this advice? Is there a difference between an open laptop vs. a notebook vs. a small notepad vs. a digital tablet? If I’m able to jot down clue words without looking down much, is that an okay compromise? How do other people just remember stuff without any help?!

In most offices this would be a complete non-issue. But because the advice is coming from someone who’s highly attuned to your particular culture and whose read has been spot-on so far, I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.

I’m a huge note-taker and can’t imagine retaining everything I need to retain from most meetings without taking notes, and I’m a lot faster on a laptop than I am with pen and paper. There’s no practical way to give that up, nor would I advise it. Whatever people might think about note-taking, it’s far worse for your reputation if you forget things that pertain to you.

However, I do think it matters what your note-taking is like. If you’re keeping up a fairly constant stream of typing throughout the meeting, that’s a lot more likely to land in people’s brains as “taking minutes,” whereas if you’re just occasionally jotting down things that relate to you, it shouldn’t.

4. When side conversations interrupt a guest of honor

What is the etiquette around work conversations when employees are gathered to celebrate an individual (think retirement, moving away, getting married, etc.)?

Our VP attends these luncheons and frequently starts talking business with a few of the other attendees. In the meantime, we’re supposed to be sharing stories about the guest of honor, or at least listening to what they may have to say. Today, we had a lunch gathering for an employee who is getting married, and at the request of the party organizer, most of the people in the office submitted marital advice for him to share with his fiancé. As he was trying to read the submissions to the group, our VP was entrenched in a work-based conversation with another employee, and I had to politely ask them both to listen to the guest of honor. Is there a better way to manage this, or is it par for the course when work colleagues get together?

It’s very common for work to get discussed at office social gatherings, but your VP was being rude in doing it in that particular moment, when the guest of honor had the floor. The VP could benefit from reading the discussion on last week’s post about being a gracious leader!

When this happens, can you first try saying something like, “Can I have everyone’s attention up here on our guest of honor?” If that doesn’t solve it, be more direct: “Bob, Celeste, would you mind pausing that conversation so we can hear Falcon?” (That said, this assumes that the internal politics on your team allow you to call it out directly. Usually, with an event like this, you’ll be able to. But if you’re dealing with a higher-up who will take poorly to that, then all you can really do is let him demonstrate to the other attendees what a boor he is.)

5. Are there any limits on “other duties as assigned”?

I work at a state agency and am struggling with being assigned (voluntold) duties that are outside the scope of the position. How far can an employer claim “other duties as assigned” when they have nothing to do with the job description or my profession? I have requested a raise, promotion, and an additional employee to take on the extra workload. All have been denied.

About these additional duties: Employee 1 was fired and their responsibilities fell in my lap. Employee 2 was retiring soon so 40% of their workload was assigned to me. After that, their replacement refused to take back this part of their job. To quell any unrest, the 40% was permanently assigned to me. These changes occurred nine years ago. I’ve stuck with this job for the excellent benefits package and this is my last stop in my working career.

I am two years from full retirement and five months from being eligible for the state retirement program. It’s obvious to me that upper management is unwilling to adjust my pay equal to my responsibilities due to my possible retirement in the next two years.

I’ve complained to my supervisor, and he understands my plight but says his hands are tied. Is there legal standing protecting the employer with “other duties as assigned” clause in the job description?

There’s no law that defines “other duties as assigned” or limits the responsibilities an employer can ask you to take on, even if the work is wildly outside of your job description. However, if you have a union, you might have a contract that limits it, so definitely check there if they exist. Otherwise, though, an employer can make your job pretty much anything they want.

In this case, you’re especially unlikely to get any traction because it’s been nine years. The time to push back was in year one — ideally then you would have taken advantage of your employer’s desire to “quell any unrest” and been the person generating that unrest who they wanted to appease (instead of ceding that ground to the new hire who was allowed to refuse to take the work back). But at this point, when the new responsibilities have been part of your job for nearly a decade, the chances of them agreeing this isn’t your job are much lower — and even more so if they’re calculating that you won’t leave over it because you’re so close to retirement.

That said, you could certainly approach this the way you would any overwhelming workload (“I can do X, Y, or Z but not all three — what do you want me to prioritize?”).

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{ 31 comments }

{ 31 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. My oh my*

    I had a coworker like #2. She wanted everyone to work at the same speed as her (which was too fast, she was sloppy), but then complained that she had to do everything when she got to things before we had a chance to do them. Super annoying, she was really bossy too.

    Reply ↓
    1. allathian*

      Yeah, that would be annoying.

      That said, in this case it only seems to apply to phones ringing. I’m glad I don’t work there, because I suspect I’d be a lot like this employee in answering the phones fast, not complaining about it! My reason is that I hate the sound of a ringing phone. The actual sound the phone makes doesn’t even matter, I have the same reaction to a phone in my pocket or on my desk on vibrate in that I have to drop everything else and answer it, or if it’s an unknown number, to reject the call and send it to voicemail. If I force myself not to answer, I feel like I’m halfway to a panic attack. It’s really weird.

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  2. Person from the Resume*

    LW5, after 9 years of doing tasks, they are your job.

    I guess maybe they’re still not in your job description. What happens if you stop doing them? But after 9 years, they are your part of your job and you stopping could cause punishment for you. On the other hand it sounds like they don’t like unrest/trouble. If you cause some, will they assign it to someone else to get you to stop causing trouble?

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  3. NurseThis*

    Re: #5…..I’ve been there and even with a union it’s pretty hard to dislodge an entrenched work load. Think asking a civil engineer to take over mopping the floors. What I did was laterally transfer to a different state agency which gave me enough time in to get my pension and certify my sick time (for use after retirement).

    Would that be an option? In my case they refused to stop dumping on me but could not prevent an interagency transfer.

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  4. Jessen*

    #2 makes me think that grey rock techniques should be more widely taught in the workplace as well. If the complaining coworker gets the exact same advice repeated in a matter-of-fact manner every time she complains, it’s likely she’ll either change her behavior about the phone or stop complaining to OP. It’s at least a useful strategy if you don’t want to be a dumping ground for complaints that the complainer refuses to do anything about.

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    1. Pam Adams*

      For #1, my university has a carpool program where people earn campus scrip for carpooling, using public transit or walking/biking to work. They provide a guaranteed ride home- usually Uber-as needed.

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    2. Ellis Bell*

      I agree with this, because OP is engaging in a long, explanatory discussion when all they have to do is refuse to be convinced or to engage in the colleague’s violin playing. Especially as the facts are pretty easily stated: “It’s because you rush to pick up the phone before the first ring”, “Let someone else get the phone then”, “We’ve discussed this”, “I’m not sure how anyone else can get the phone if you make sure to pick it up first””.

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  5. Ann*

    LW2 this is sound advice (unfortunately).
    I now refuse to take lengthy notes in meetings because I was too often asked to send a summary or schedule follow-up meetings even by female senior leaders. When I inquired about the men on my team not getting their fair turn, the truth is no animous was intended, that I am just good at it and not a whiner. Another computer-note-taking issue is a lot of folks are multi-tasking on screens with emails, etc. which can be perceived as not paying attention especially in front of clients, the opposite of what you are doing. And I’ve also sat next to someone who typed the whole meeting and I couldn’t hear as well, not enough to complain, but your mentor’s intentions sound good.

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    2. AcademiaNut*

      I was thinking that it’s important for the LW not to give her notes to anyone else, even if it’s useful and she takes beautiful notes. That will get her branded the note-taker, and it will be expected of her in a way it wouldn’t be for a man in the same job.

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    3. allathian*

      Yeah, but typing only what pertains to her should be fine. Maybe the LW should ask her mentor what they suggest she should do instead because it’s unrealistic to expect people to remember action items reliably without writing them down, or having someone else write them down.

      Yet another reason to hate in-person meetings, if you ask me.

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    4. ThatOtherClare*

      If you have to take notes, a tablet is your best bet. Some tablets come with little keyboard covers that turn them into almost a mini laptop. But not an actual touch screen laptop. Too practical. I hate saying this, but if you’re in that kind of slightly sexist environment you want to give off ‘I’m being cool and using this excuse to show off my tech’ vibes, not ‘I’m being practical’ vibes. In fact, if it’s slightly impractical that’s better. In the old-fashioned mind, secretaries are practical and the lads are fun. A woman can be one of the lads nowadays, but not if she’s been branded secretary.

      Thankfully this kind of attitude is far more uncommon nowadays, but if you’ve accidentally landed somewhere that still has it then there’s not much you can do as an individual. Society is changing as we educate our children. No point wasting energy on fighting a mindset that is dying out naturally anyway. Just take the path of least resistance for as long as you’re stuck there, and we can all consider this a reminder to be proactive in educating the young people around us.

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      1. ThatOtherClare*

        I also hate this further comment I’m about to make, but anyway.

        You may also find it helps your image if you’re willing to change the way you dress. At one job I had a ‘meeting outfit’ that was basically the female version of exactly what the men wore: chinos, collared white business shirt, crew neck cashmere sweater, black socks, leather shoes, hair in the most unobtrusive bun possible. It was all female clothing, I still looked very feminine, but I definitely noticed the men listened to me more when I dressed just like them. It was like the ‘other’ circuits in their brain were quietened and the ‘one of us’ circuits switched on a little. It made me mad every time I put it on, but it worked, so I did it.

        Everyone gets to choose their own balance of ‘fight back’ and ‘work around’ each day. If you don’t have the energy to teach some idiots that not all typing women are ye olde typists, and that admin people shouldn’t be devalued anyway, that’s ok. It’s not your sole duty to do so.

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  6. NCA*

    LW3: This is the one arena in which I’ve seen AI ‘assistants’ be of actual use – as transcribers and outline-creators for meetings. Would your company allow you to use software like that to make a transcription and followup outline, so all you’d have to do is set up your laptop and then not actively type?

    Reply ↓
    1. allathian*

      Probably not if they’re dealing with proprietary and/or customer data. Transcription AI could help a lot of people at least once they’re more reliable at the task than currently, but there are good reasons in many companies that haven’t invested in an “in-house” AI that doesn’t send any data to external servers to ban them.

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    2. Nodramalama*

      Be very wary of these. I know of multiple places that have had massive issues where people were inviting external AI to meetings and not telling the other participants and then people have to investigate what was said, what was recorded, where the data was saved.

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      1. Zelda*

        And the transcription I have seen (an admittedly small sample) has had really bad spots– things people absolutely did not say. Good old-fashioned [unintelligible] would have been better than the AI making stuff up to fill in the gap. Fraught with peril.

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  7. allathian*

    LW1, paying for Ubers is a reasonably cheap way to buy goodwill from the employee. The employees who drive their own cars aren’t incurring any extra costs by staying late, so they really have no reason to complain.

    There are all sorts of reasons for people not to drive, including health conditions that the employee doesn’t have to disclose to the employer if they don’t affect their ability to do the job, just their ability to drive.

    Another alternative would be to always ensure that the employee can leave in time to catch the last bus, but I suspect that this would irritate the employees who drive far more than you paying the non-driving employee’s Ubers would.

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    1. Lizard the Second*

      In my former workplace, it was standard procedure to provide employees with a Cabcharge voucher if they had to work until late. It acknowledges the difficulty of finding transport home at that hour.

      Reply ↓
      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        Not that I have ever used it, but my company will provide taxi rides for employees working late. Like the example in the letter, the main bus line stops after a certain time (8.00pm in my case) and the office is not very far from an unpleasant area close to the main station.

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  8. ClydesdalesandCoconuts*

    Has anyone considered unplugging “quickdraw mcgraw’s” phone so it won’t ring and literally forces her to allow others to take on the task?

    LW#5 you very likely could have gone to
    your union about these issues, because they likely were not following your cba ( assuming that you have a union based on being a state employee) when gicing you extra tasks not related to your role or position. Unfortunately after this long it is really too late and you either need to transfer to another position laterally or just suck it up until you retire.

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    1. MsM*

      Presumably she does get calls she has to answer on occasion.

      Honestly, though, I feel like this entire problem could be solved by just setting up an automated system that will transfer the calls to people’s extensions when the receptionist is out. Not sure why the free for all has been deemed the better solution.

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      1. Emmy Noether*

        I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Which extension would the calls be forwarded to? Especially for general callers that don’t know specifically who they need to speak to.

        I guess another possibility would be to set up a rotating system.

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      2. Myrin*

        The calls are being transferred to people’s extensions – OP says that “everyone’s phone rings”.
        It does sound like it would be better to set up a fixed rotation (and not just a “we’re supposed to take turns” kind of loose arrangement), though, so that Crabby doesn’t even get a chance to answer the phone.

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  9. PurplePenquin*

    re #5 – if it is a State job, contact HR to see about reclassifying your position. You should not need supervisor approval for that to happen.

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  10. Old dude*

    re LW1,

    my first job in the late 70s was in downtown San Francisco and most employees took some sort of public transit (bus, train, ferry).

    If we worked past 7pm the company picked up dinner and a cab ride home. It made giving our all that much more palatable.

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    1. JR17*

      I worked in NYC in the 2000s, just before the recession, and this was common at big companies, especially professional service firms. It was something like dinner could be expensed if you worked past 8 and a black car home if you worked past 9. The big investment banks all had long lines of black cars out front if you walked by at night.

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  11. Other Doodies As Assigned*

    9 years?! As a civil servant myself you are SOL. You say something in the first 1-3 months and get your union on the horn. When this happened to me they had to give me a 10% pay bump. Not much, but required. Then went it went on I became acting (higher position). It was very clear in my MOU. Sorry this happened but 9 years later is too far gone.

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    1. Meat Oatmeal*

      I’m not super hopeful that the union can help at this point, but if I were this LW’s union steward, I’d want LW to loop me in just in case there was *something* we could do.

      For example, has that workload led LW to do unpaid overtime? Or maybe do I know of other union members who are carrying huge workloads, and does that distribution of work disproportionately burden a legally protected class? Etc.

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  12. Jules the First*

    LW3, yes, I’m afraid you have to give up the laptop for a tablet or notebook. The immediate problem is that having the laptop open gives “official notetaker” vibes; but the longer term problem is that it gets you used to transcribing meeting content in detail and as you get further into your career, that will start to get in the way of you being actively present and participating in the meeting.

    A good compromise for you might be something like a rocketbook where you can take physical notes and then scan them to your preferred app and easily erase the notebook?

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  13. Retired @ last*

    I confess I would immediately assume the person with the laptop was taking minutes. If anyone other than the minute taker was typing away on a laptop, I would find it distracting and would likely assume they were working on something else entirely (because I personally find taking notes on a laptop to be extremely inefficient and tend to think that anyone else who wasn’t an experienced minute taker would feel the same – obviously not true, but still the way my mind goes).
    I use a digital notebook to scribble down anything I need to remember – much more efficient for me, and, if I’m not constantly typing away on a keyboard, no one’s going to mistake me for the minute taker. Which is just as well, since I’m absolutely dreadful at it and have spent the last 40+ years trying (mostly successfully) to avoid it. Anyone who can do it well has my deepest respect.

    Reply ↓

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