everyone at my new job loves my high school bully, company wants us to pay for a work trip, and more

by Alison Green on September 18, 2024

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go…

1. Everyone at my new job loves my high school bully

I’m an actor and just started rehearsals for a play. A woman who bullied me terribly in high school is active in my city’s theater community. Luckily, I haven’t run into her as I was busy with college and then lived in a different city for a couple of years. One of my castmates offhandedly mentioned her. I said that I went to high school with her, but obviously did not mention the bullying. The castmate began singing her praises, and others joined in. I thought my heart was going to stop.

I’m nearly 30, but I am not over what she did to me. Without getting into details, she enlisted other students and even a faculty member in her bullying. I began self-harming, attempting suicide, and spent some time in intensive outpatient therapy.

I now have to hear about her almost every night. I can’t say anything about the bullying, because I don’t want to bring up old drama and I don’t want her to find out she still has this effect on me. The show will be over by November, but I don’t know if I can continue like this for that long. I’m physically ill and my work at my day job is slipping. Dropping out isn’t an option. What do you think I should do?

You’ve taken the two most obvious options off the table: saying something or dropping out. If you’re physically ill and it’s affecting your day job, you need to do one of those. Saying something would be the easiest! You don’t need to get into details; you can simply say, “Jane and I have a rough history and it’s messing with my focus to talk about her so frequently — could you not bring her up around me so often?”

Does this sound like there’s A Story and might it make people curious to know what happened? Yes. But that doesn’t need to be your problem. If anyone pries for details, you can say, “I really don’t want to talk about it, it was years ago.” If people wonder, so be it. The alternative is continuing to hear about her all the time.

However … if she’s active in your city’s theater community and you’re going to be part of that community, realistically this is likely to keep coming up. It’s actually pretty weird that they’re bringing her up so frequently — what is so interesting to them about this woman?! — but apparently that’s the situation. So I do think you’ve got to decide if you’re up for remaining active in that community yourself, knowing Jane will be be around/discussed, or whether you’d rather disengage. And that sucks! You should be able to participate in community theater if you want to. But those are probably the choices. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

Also, would it help to check in with a therapist for a few sessions, given the impact this is having on your quality of life? I imagine it might be awfully demoralizing to think you’re once again having to seek therapy because of Jane, but we’re talking about something that’s making you physically ill and affecting your job.

If all of this sounds like too much to bother to deal with, I’d honestly consider quitting the play. I know you said it’s not an option, but it would presumably be an option if you had something else health-related going on, right? (There too, I imagine it might be demoralizing to feel like you have to quit something all these years later because of Jane, but you really don’t need to just power through.)

2. My employee is bad at communicating

I am moving into a management position for the first time in many years. The last time I had a direct report, it was a disaster. My current direct report is great — he’s enthusiastic and a quick learner. This is also his first job out of college so it’s a big learning curve. And I really, really don’t want to mess up managing again!

So far the only issue I’ve encountered is a communication issue. When he’s speaking to me, I often find it hard to get a handle on what he’s trying to say, and end up having to ask a lot of questions so I can nail down the information.

For example, he will use the word “they” to refer to multiple individuals in a conversation, so I have to keep asking him which of the various people involved he’s referring to, or he’ll send Teams messages that are vague. The other day, he sent me a Teams message the other day about a technical issue during a presentation that said, “I keep seeing my messages” when what he meant was that his Teams notifications were popping up during a shared screen and he didn’t know how to turn them off.

I want to give him some constructive feedback, but saying “get better at communicating” doesn’t seem specific or actionable enough. Ideally, I’d like to be able to grasp what he’s saying without having to ask a lot of clarifying questions. Do you have any advice for how to address this, or any advice for a new manager who really, really wants to be a good manager?

The next time it happens, name it in the moment and ask clearly for what you want him to do differently. So for example, the next time he’s using “they” to refer to multiple people, say, “You’re saying ’they’ for a bunch of different people and I don’t know who you’re referencing. Can you make a point of using each person’s name, not just now but in all the time? It’ll make conversations easier to follow.” (I wonder if you’ve hesitated to say that because it’s so basic that it might feel condescending — but the fact is, what he’s doing is a problem and there’s no other way to get him to change it.) You can also name the pattern itself: “You sometimes send me messages without giving me enough background to know the context. For example, X and Y. Can you make a point of including a couple of sentences of context when you message me so that I have the background on what we’re talking about?”

More broadly: I don’t know what the management disaster was last time, but make sure you’ve reflected on whatever happened, identified what you should have done differently, and internalized those lessons. There’s also tons of help available for new managers if you seek out it! Weirdly, companies don’t always offer much support to new managers, but there’s guidance out there if you look for it. Ideally you’d have a more experienced manager as a mentor to bounce things off of, but there are books, classes, articles… Here’s one starting place.

3. Company wants us to pay for a work trip

Every year my company hosts a company trip for partners in the company (it’s a start-up, so a majority of employees were offered partnership).

This is my first year being invited to attend. We got a group “discount” at the recommended hotel the meetings will be held in and a $100 reimbursement. Alison, I’m at the admin level, I can’t feasibly drop $700 for a weekend and have to use a day of PTO to ensure I get there on a Friday. It’s optional to go, but we are HEAVILY encouraged and repeatedly asked to attend. After I pushed back, they finally booked the rooms for us and offered a partial work day to head out to the destination. But even then it’s still expensive, and they are refusing work from home. We also are attending work sessions that we are not going to be paid for under the guise that it’s strategic planning.

Am I crazy in thinking they should do more to cover our costs? Or do companies really just pay for rooms and everything else you cover?

Let me get this straight: They’re heavily pressuring you to attend a work trip but expecting you to pay for your own hotel (minus their contribution of $100) and use PTO to travel to it? And then while you’re there, it won’t count as work time?

Lol no. That’s utterly ridiculous.

Employers are expected to pay the cost of business travel (hotel and transportation at a minimum, and ideally meals as well), your travel time shouldn’t come out of PTO, and if you’re non-exempt you need to be paid for the work sessions that happen on the trip. That last part is federal law; it’s not up to them.

If the trip were both optional and purely recreational (like a reward where you weren’t expected to do any work), this would still be pretty stingy. The fact that it’s an actual work trip and you’re being pressured to go moves this into the realm of outrageous.

What happens if you say, “I’d like to go but I can’t afford the expenses or the PTO”?

4. How do I get out of some of these meetings?

My calendar is filling up with 1:1 check-ins with people not in my vertical. These check-ins started as a way to collaborate more in our remote jobs, and often they are helpful. But I think it’s taking over my week a little too much and I’m constantly struggling to find focus time. I think it would be helpful to reduce cadence on a few of these check-ins but it’s hard to tell people “I want to meet with you less!” Do you have a suggestion on how to ask this diplomatically?

“I’ve been slammed lately and need to carve out more time for project work (or “to meet some deadlines” or whatever makes sense in your context). Can we change the cadence of our meetings to ___?” (Fill in the blank with monthly, every other week, as needed, or whatever makes sense.) Hell, you can even say, “I urgently need to carve out some space on my calendar over the next few weeks. Can we put our check-ins on hold for now?”

5. Did I mess up by referring to a “suspended” hiring process?

I recently had a great first interview with an in-house recruiter for a role I am really excited about. The recruiter told me that she would be moving me to the next step and that I would hear from her within the next week. After two weeks, I sent a brief, polite follow-up email just to check in and see if there were any updates.

The recruiter wrote back saying that they had several recruitment processes going on and they were “unable to progress any further for now” with recruitment for the role in question. I replied that I was sorry to hear that the process had been suspended, but I was still excited about the opportunity and asked her to please get back in touch when they were ready to restart.

She responded that the process was not suspended, it was ongoing, they just couldn’t move as quickly. This directly contradicted her first message and the tone suggested that I’d offended her. I fired back a quick apology and reiterated that I would love to hear from her when they’re ready.

Did I screw up? Is “suspended” a dirty word? It seemed accurate in response to her first message. Do I need to do more to fix this?

“Suspended” isn’t a dirty word and I doubt you offended the recruiter or misstepped. She was simply clarifying that they’re not stopping recruitment; it’s just slowing way down / is on the back burner as a priority right now. There’s nothing to fix; all is fine.

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{ 350 comments }

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  1. desdemona*

    I’m not sure if it changes the advice to LW1 at all, but it sounds like they’re a professional actor with a support/day job, as opposed to a careerjob with acting as a hobby.
    “Theatre community” is very different from “community theatre”, in that case – the acting gig may be paid/under contract, with a higher level of professionalism & resources (though maybe not enough for understudies).

    If the former bully is big in the local theatre community, it sounds like LW is gonna have to figure out how to proceed one way or another, like Alison says. I wonder if the coworkers keep bringing the bully up because they assume LW must be friends with her, and are trying to find common ground to bond over?

    2. Brain the Brian*

      I was going to comment that missing from the letter is an indication of whether this is professional / paid acting or a unpaid / volunteer community gig, but I think it basically has to be the former if this is a workplace blog question. I do think it significantly changes the advice: it’s much harder to walk away from a paid gig if you’re an early-career professional in an industry where your reputation for finishing your contracts and being able to work with a wide variety of personalities is a big part of what will get you hired for future work.

      LW1, just calmly tell your castmates that you have some old history with this woman and cheerfully change the subject when you can. I don’t think it will serve you to delve into the details of her bullying; you’d risk looking like you’re stoking old grudges if you do that. You’re likely to encounter her again, unfortunately, and if you can look like the more mature person, that will go a long way. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        OP does clarify in the comments that it’s community theater, if that’s helpful to know.

        1. Pizza Rat*

          Some community theatres are not volunteer and able to pay cast & crew. Regardless, dropping out would hurt the LW’s ability to keep working with them and it would negatively impact their acting career.

          1. Ms. Eleanous*

            OP1 bully trauma

            “Regardless, dropping out would hurt the LW’s ability to keep working with them and it would negatively impact their acting career.”

            Balderdash — yeah, would affect OP’s working in community theatre, but I very very strongly doubt a professional theatre would give 2 hoots.

            I say this as someone who grew up in a (very good) community theatre, and then became a professional with all my union cards.
            OP, I will tell you what I told my performing arts students: In 10 years, you’ll be deciding what to wear to the emmy awards, and they’ll still be here, milking their cows.

            1. Ms. Eleanous*

              PS ..
              OP, you are in the right here.
              I wish you victory over Bully.

              Personally, I would say,
              “Oh, I’m glad she turned out OK; She was nightmare in high school.”
              And, I would say it as though I had been one of her teachers, not one of her victims, with great detachment, and some condescension.

              1. Jennifer Strange*

                If I have a positive view of someone and you make a comment like this (especially with condescension) I’m going to think you’re a jerk. The best thing to do if remain neutral.

                1. Ms. Eleanous*

                  hmm.. Ms. Strange ..
                  you may have a point .
                  what if I changed
                  “a nightmare” to
                  “deeply troubled”?

                3. DisgruntledPelican*

                  I agree. And the “deeply troubled” suggestion comes across even worse – like you’re randomly telling me about someone’s mental health or some other kind of childhood trauma she went through.

              2. Goldenrod*

                Yeah, I would probably just say, “Oh, she bullied me horribly in high school, I can’t stand her.”

                Not necessarily the best course of action, but I know I would say it!

            2. Jennifer Strange*

              Not sure what theatre’s you’ve worked with, but I’ve worked at professional theatres, and dropping out would definitely reflect poorly on the LW in a professional setting, especially since they’re already in the middle of rehearsals here. Obviously an exception would be made for a medical issue, but otherwise you’re going to look unreliable.

              2. Cookie Monster*

                Well, this is a medical issue. She says it’s making her ‘physically ill.’ She doesn’t have to give them any details but just tell them a previous medical issue is flaring up and she has to drop out to have enough time to address it.

              3. Jennifer Strange*

                @Cookie Monster, sure, they could choose to go that route if this had been a professional job (the LW has since clarified it wasn’t, but for the sake of this comment let’s assume it was). But if this is something that was likely to keep happening (and in any localized theatre community, professional or otherwise, it probably will) a better choice would be to figure out how to work around mention of the bully so they can continue to perform (if that is what they want to do). Also, had this been a professional job, there may have been terms in their contract about leaving early that could affect them.

                1. Cookie Monster*

                  Right. But part of dropping out of this one would be to not only address the physical illness part but also use the extra time to come up with a game plan, as you point out. Working all day and rehearsing at night and weekends can take up a lot of time. I’m not saying it’s the BEST thing in the world, but I don’t think it would reflect on her quite as poorly as you said. Unless the theater company is run by *ssholes, they might be frustrated but would understand.

            3. I should really pick a name*

              It could just as likely be the other way around.

              While the likely outcome is that they both have modest acting careers, or have turned to something completely different.

              The goal here is to give the LW useful advice, not platitudes, and a professional theatre would very definitely give two hoots about someone dropping out partway through rehearsals.

            4. Ms. Elaneous*

              to clarify ..
              yes, a professional company probably would care if you just dropped out of a previous Professional job.

              I just meant that most of what happens in community theatre never even crosses paths with professional theatre. Thus the 2 hoots comment.

              1. Jennifer Strange*

                That’s definitely not true. Yes, if you’re an equity actor you’re not doing community theatre, but there can absolutely be crossover. I’ve been that crossover.

    3. Sleve*

      In which case, best case scenario might be that a breezy “She and I had some differences of opinion in high school. She said she didn’t support [name of local sports team], so of course we haven’t kept in touch, haha!” might be enough for people to realise that they aren’t friends without the gossip train cluing in that there’s more to it than “people don’t have time to maintain friendships with literally everyone they’ve ever met”.

      1. Despachito*

        I think there is a risk of OP being taken literally and looking petty if she says this (the team thing wouldn’t be a big deal after all those years).

        I have no advice for the OP besides therapy but I am sorry she is going through this.

        What are the risks if she said matter-of-factly what she told us here? I am not always the best with all the possible ramifications of something that can’t be undone, and people can sometimes act very weird.

        1. C*

          It might be hard to say it matter of factly, for one. She might have a hard time not crying in front of these people, and while that’d surely convince them to shut about this person that doesn’t mean anybody wants to do it.

      2. Allonge*

        I would go with a more simple version of this, something like ‘we did not get along’, maybe adding ‘you know how high school can be’. In my experience, the fewer details the easier to get people to ‘it’s just one of those things’.

        But more importantly: OP, I know this sounds like a nightmare of you being back in high school with this person. But you are not.

        You are an adult and have control over what you do, say and where you go. I wanted to say this because the things you say are not an option sound like they may not have been back then, but this is a different situation. I hope you find a better place for yourself (mentally, but also in the world). There is a whole wide world out there without this woman.

        1. DrSalty*

          “We didn’t get along, you know how high school is,” is perfect imo. It’s vague but gets the point across that you aren’t friends. And we all do know how high school is. I agree with others in the comments who’ve suggested people keep bringing up her bc they think it’s something you have in common.

          1. xylocopa*

            Yes. The less detail, the less people have something to latch on to. Saying this with love, but: theater communities aren’t the best place for letting go of gossip. Don’t invent backstory, give just enough to cover “it was high school, I don’t want to talk about it, let’s move on.”

          2. Smithy*

            Absolutely this.

            In the same way that no can be a complete sentence, saying that line with a light tone of voice can be it and is regularly more effective in stopping the conversation. Trying to insert a joke or additional information can do more to continue the exchange or introduce weirdness. Essentially the difference in turning down an invitation by saying “Thank you for the invite, but I unable to attend” vs “Thank you for the invite, but I’m unable to attend because I’m washing my hair”.

      3. I should really pick a name*

        I don’t think that’s going to discourage people from talking about her.

        There’s really no need to embellish.
        “We didn’t get along in high school” is sufficient.

        1. Pizza Rat*

          Or even, “we weren’t friends,” or “we didn’t hang out.” then shrug and move on. No explanation needed.

      4. Learn ALL the things*

        I don’t think making up a fake smaller reason to dislike her is the way to go. If they do end up crossing paths at some point, it’s probably going to be evident that LW is uncomfortable, and if the people around them have been told it’s just because they don’t support the same sports team or something on that level, LW is going to look like they’re having an outsized reaction to what they’ve been told is a minor disagreement. It’s better to go with Allonge’s suggestion and say “we didn’t get along, you know how high school can be.” It’s a mild enough statement that it won’t feed the fire on its own, but vague enough that if their castmates do see them interacting uncomfortably at some point, it won’t automatically make LW look unreasonable.

    4. Nodramalama*

      Yeah I agree, if LW hasn’t given any indication that they’re uncomfortable it’s entirely possible people bring this person up because they think LW is interested

      1. Antilles*

        That was my thought too. OP mentioned they went to high school together, leading people to think that OP has a connection, and that’s why it keeps coming up.

        1. Yadah*

          Also, if the bully is fairly prominent in the community then people might see OP as a potential connection to get “in” with. Acting is a connections business and knowing someone prominent can really get your foot in the door.

    5. Sibilant Susurrus*

      I had a situation like this myself when I was 29. Essentially I told the theatre group, “Bully and I have some rough highschool history. while recognise that people are different and more mature at 30 than 16, I’d rather not be reminded of it.”

      3. T.N.H*

        This is the best phrasing here and I hope OP sees it. But the OP has to understand that people will still talk about Bully. What did you do in that case? There’s no escaping it completely.

        1. Thespian*

          I’m sure I’ll run into her in the future. Now that the initial shock is over, I’m prepared to handle it. I also posted a small update below.

      4. learnedthehardway*

        I like that too. There’s a significant chance that Bully hasn’t changed her stripes. I don’t think it’s NOT at all off-side for the OP to say she has reasons for not wanting to revisit that period of her life.

      5. toolegittoresign*

        YES! I can say this phrasing works. It makes it clear that you’re not holding a grudge but rather don’t want to think about it. Nips any “oh well, NOW you’d probably like her…” comments in the bud.

    6. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      Oh, thank you. I’d been wondering why LW1 chose Alison rather than another advice columnist for something that didn’t seem to have anything to do with work!

    7. RIP Pillowfort*

      If this is in fact a paid/under contract position- only thing OP can do is say something to cut off the comments.

      I was pretty horrifically bullied in school (I went through some of the same actions as OP) and OP is going to have to say something more concrete to shut it down. I’ve always used “School was not a healthy experience for me and my personal experience with Griselda in school was extremely negative. I would appreciate it if we did not talk about her. It’s not helpful for me.”

      I used to think if I talked about my bullying, I would be seen as holding a grudge. I get you may also be worried people will always side with this person against you. I always irrationally worried about that. But what I’ve actually had happen is people just drop the subject after I tell them. If anyone judged me for it, I have no idea. They treated me fine afterwards.

      And also, it’s important to remember not everyone has the same experience with the person as me. Griselda might be perfectly nice to these people- that’s their experience and hopefully she is a better person now. Not that you need to interact with her or give her the time of day. But I found rationalizing that my experience is not theirs helps put why they bring this person up in context. I do think they’re looking for a way to connect and it’s because they think this person must have been nice to you. That’s all they know about her.

      1. SAS*

        A sincere “school was not a healthy experience for me” is great phrasing. I would personally go more neutral for the second part “so I really don’t need to hear about Griselda at all, I’m sure you can understand”.

        Your 3rd paragraph is so important for OP to hear. Kind people will almost always make an effort not bring up something they know is hurtful to you! This approach is definitely worth a shot.

      2. Not on board*

        Agree with you, I commented on the same thing below. As someone who was bullied themselves, it’s better to acknowledge that they are probably a lovely person now but that your experience was very different and you’d prefer not to talk about them. People will understand.

    8. Not on board*

      I think an honest but low on details statement would be best here. When they bring her up:
      “I am sure she is a lovely person now, but she bullied me horrendously in our teens and I prefer not to talk about her, thanks for understanding.”
      Practice this response so that you can say it without emotion and matter of factly. Word will spread and people will stop talking about her to you.

      1. MissDisplaced*

        I honestly wouldn’t give people anything to gossip about. Why not just say something vague like “Oh I don’t really know Jane well, different high school cliques and all.”

    9. Hyaline*

      The other key piece to that question is that if this was a one off community theater gig LW could reasonably expect to just muddle through it and never have to hear about the bully again. But if this is LW‘s profession, they are going to have to find strategies to deal with the fact that the bully is going to be brought up and going to be present in their professional life—this is not a one off problem.

      1. Ms. Eleanous*

        ” . . . if this is LW‘s profession, they are going to have to find strategies to deal with the fact that the bully is going to be brought up and going to be present in their professional life—this is not a one off problem.”

        Or possibly LW1 will move on to bigger and better things, and never have to encounter Bully again, as Bully will remain in community theatre
        for life. :)

        1. EDIA*

          It’s a nice fantasy that your chosen protagonist (LW in this case) gets their happily ever after, and the villain of the story gets their comeuppance, but merely dreaming of a better future doesn’t make it so. People are giving LW practical advice to work for a better future, with the hope that it will eventually come to fruition. I noticed in your other comments that you keep talking as if it’s already a given that LW will ride off into the sunset leaving the HS bully rolling in mud, but it’s not, and fantasizing about it doesn’t actually improve LW’s position.

          Also, the LW wrote in about a real life scenario. There are no designated heroes or villains in real life, just a bunch of people thrown together, and even if some situations seem much more clear-cut than others, people’s perspectives and opinions on them will always vary.

            1. EDIA*

              That’s your opinion, not incontrovertible fact. LW has had a terrible experience with Jane, but the theater folks have had very positive experiences with Jane. You may think her a villain, but the theater folks hold a very different opinion. Also, you missed my point that designated hero/villain framework isn’t relevant in real life. I don’t care that you think Jane is in the villain column.

              Most of the commenters have done a great job of offering thoughtful, actionable advice. “LW is slated for superstardom, and Jane is fated for mediocrity” isn’t advice, it’s a cathartic daydream. It may well be that Jane ascends to theater greatness, and LW stays at the hobby level. You don’t know anything about LW or Jane’s theater prospects, so it’s so weird to me that you repeatedly bring up this idea that LW is definitely going to win Emmys and Jane is going to be a lifetime loser, especially since Jane has already found some success in their community theater to the point that she is beloved by many involved. Beyond that, it’s not helpful to LW today. LW is suffering, emotionally and healthwise, and telling her things will for sure get better without providing her a path there is not helpful.

                1. EDIA*

                  I’d still place my money on ‘actionable advice’ having more immediate, more impactful effects than just thinking about the results you hope to have.

                  Also, I can’t speak for how troubled LW is by this situation, but for myself, when I was anxious and in pain and saw no way out, and people told me “Chin up, things will get better!” that just made me think they had absolutely no understanding of what I was going through.

    10. Shinobi42*

      I agree with your assessment.

      I think the LW should take more of their power back here. Jane could be a person who has changed – or they could be one of those charming people who cause drama. Only time will tell.

      Frame the conversation as “you don’t want to spread rumors or be tempted to talk shit every time you hear someone’s name.”

      LW knows Jane did some bad stuff – this wouldn’t be great to spread around the community. And theater people love some tea. Rather than think of themselves as a victim – they can think of themselves as a knower of secrets who is keeping quiet for now – for the greater good.

      Which is true. LW is not without some power here.

      1. Ghostlight*

        This was a pretty good take u til “theatre people love tea.” Especially if you’re talking about professional theatre, just because we have a different workplace and office culture, it’s still a group of professionals who are there to do a job and acting like actual professionals are just a high school clique is infantilizing and rude.

        Even if this is “just” a community theatre production, all it means is that the theatre community in OP’s area is probably smaller and they’re more likely to deal with Jane. If it is a professional production OP, use that and some of the above scripts are great and remember that you should also have resources in the SM team and management if problems persist. If this is a hobby, still use the scripts, but feel free to leave the show. If it’s not healthy and bringing you joy and people don’t respect that, it’s not a community that you want to be a part of.

        1. LinuxSystemGuy*

          I mean, professional people in general love tea. I don’t think it’s a stretch that professional theater people do to. I don’t think the comment was meant as a slight, I’d say a quarter or more of the letters this sight sees elate in one way or another to gossip in virtually every industry under the sun.

      2. Ms. Eleanous*

        Rather than think of themselves as a victim – they can think of themselves as a knower of secrets who is keeping quiet for now – for the greater good.

        Which is true. LW is not without some power here.

        Wholeheartedly agree with that.

        My experience in professional theatre is that the higher up I went, the nicer people got.

        Very rarely do mean people survive at a professional level — there’s just too much money at stake.

        1. Former Young Lady*

          There are still a few absolute brats at the Equity level, but they tend to be more calculating in their choice of targets. They’ll pick on the crew or the front-of-house staff instead of other actors.

          It’s definitely less of an issue than you see at the community level. Small names, big egos, and a lot more hemming and hawing from leadership about “but they’re so TALENTED and they’re giving us their TIME!”

        2. Tiny Soprano*

          Unless the bullies are in fact the ones in leadership IME… but otherwise agreed. The more professional the level, the better behaved people generally are.

    11. Possum's mom*

      I wonder if the bully discovered the OP is in the cast and she’s trying to cover her tracks by enlisting the other members to sing her praises to OP? …”Look how I’ve changed, I’m wonderful, so don’t believe anything OP tells you about me in high school”.

      1. Jennifer Strange*

        This seems like a stretch. I think the most likely explanation is simply that those folks have had good experiences working with bully and simply aren’t aware the LW’s experience with bully was different.

        1. Possum's mom*

          My thought wasn’t expressed clearly. I should have said that the bully, after realizing the LW was in the cast, may have brought up the topic of being in high school together, and that LW wrongly accused her of being a bully back then, and may continue to accuse her of it now. If the people hearing this have only had good interactions with her, that could be the reason they have been singing praises to LW to indicate their opinions of interacting with her. All hypothetical, to be sure, but sometimes striking the first blow leaves the greater impression.

          1. EDIA*

            No, I think everyone understood your thoughts, but it’s still way more unlikely and convoluted than that the theater folks are trying to connect with LW on their common ground of knowing Jane, unaware of the context in which LW knew Jane. Sure, anything is possible, but for an advice column, it’s only constructive to bring up the possibilities supported by the content of the letter.

            1. Possum's mom*

              I was entertaining the possibility that the lady may be using the same tactics as she did in high school because LW mentioned that she even enlisted other students and a faculty member in her bullying. My personal experiences of crossing paths with my school bully even after 25 years have definitely clouded my outlook on this!

              1. Jennifer Strange*

                That’s still a stretch based on absolutely nothing, though? I’m not saying it’s impossible, but this sounds like looking for a zebra when the obvious answer is horse.

      3. mlem*

        You seem to be getting jumped on, but I find that plausible — not actively enlisting others, per se, but actively positioning herself as wonderful and beloved in order to inoculate everyone against giving much credit to high school stories.

        1. blue rose*

          Many people disagreeing with Possum is not the same as Possum getting jumped on. Everyone here is behaving politely to each other, it’s just that most of them see the situation differently than Possum, and are saying so.

      4. Good Lord Ratty*

        Entirely possible, but since we don’t have evidence to support that idea, it’s probably better not to take action based on it.

      5. Turquoisecow*

        I very much doubt the bully remembers OP or would characterize their relationship the same way OP does. In my experience, bullies often don’t even remember their own cruelty and are surprised when people confront them as adults (there are a few examples of such in AAM letters even!) so while this is not impossible, I doubt the bully is feeling much guilt over the past.

    12. Tiger Snake*

      A very hard truth that people struggle facing is – People Change, and there is no one that is above redemption.

      The axe forgets by the tree remembers has another part to it: scars still ache even after the wound healed. We love to see a villain and a bully as something stagnant because we still hurt. The idea that the world has moved on while we still hurt is confronting, because it feels like it’s not fair.
      We associate justice and retribution with “and now I am okay and better”, when those two things are not the same thing. Someone can face the consequence of their actions and get the exact karmic punishment they deserve, and then have the punishment end, before you’re willing to let things go. But, that’s a “you” problem.

      LW1 never has to like their bully. They never have to forgive their bully. But who their bully was in high school is no longer who they are. Because a bully was never a villain, they were a person, and people change all the time. Every cell in the body has been replaced since they last saw this person. They are both no longer who they used to be.
      We don’t have to forgive anyway, but as scary and frustrating as it might be; we have to learn to accept that.

  2. Sleve*

    LW#2: ironically, all you need to do is to tell him that his communication in general isn’t specific or actionable enough. Which messages? How would he like you to help him with that? Was that even a request for help? Which they?

    All these questions and more could be avoided if he just provided more details the first time around. He’s not texting his buddies. Bosses and colleagues will always need more context than friends and family.

    1. Sleeve McQueen*

      I know the STAR method is for feedback, but I wonder if LW2 could encourage him to use it while he improves his communication. It stands for Situation/Task, Action, Result and the idea is that by focusing on every step you’re encouraging the behaviour not the result and can provide more nuanced feedback eg instead of “Congratulations Margo on making budget” you could say “a lot of our clients were on leave, so we had difficulty getting work approved, Margo made suggestions on a discreet project we could work on with minimal approval and still made budget.”
      In this case, using STAR might help him to say “I am on a Teams call and my messages keep popping up, it’s distracting and I can’t figure out how to turn them off.”

      1. FashionablyEvil*

        I mentioned this below, but SBAR is what you’re looking for here. (Situation, background, assessment, recommendation). It’s used widely in healthcare to improve communication and safety, but has filtered into other fields.

      2. Zelda*

        I like this. It has some guidance for not just “more detail!” but *what kinds* of detail would be useful. For someone who’s maybe not great at putting himself in someone else’s position and figuring out what they need to know, this kind of framework might get him started.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah, like I’m sure when he said the thing about “messages” on teams, he thought he was being specific. It wouldn’t be til the boss was like “you mean the notifications are popping up over the meeting and distracting you?” that he might realize, oh, yeah, what I said wasn’t clear. It’s also an unfortunate possibility that even when someone elaborates for him (in question form) he might still not realize that what they said back is more specific than what he initially said. It’ll be harder for him to turn around if the situation is the latter because it’s not just remembering to be more specific, but identifying what “specific” even is in the moment. If he realizes the difference when it’s pointed out, then he can immediately try to be mindful of his phrasing before he speaks.

    2. Dood*

      Yep. Exactly this. He needs to communicate with more information; that is, he needs to provide more specific details.

    3. Allonge*

      Good way to put it. OP, make him think about what you or any other communication partner can know about what he is communicating, and explain it accordingly.

      And just to reassure you – no matter what went wrong in your previous management attempts, this is definitely something to address. There is no workplace where clear communication is not on the scale from absolutely necessary to definite advantage. He needs this feedback, it’s not a question.

      1. Great Frogs of Literature*

        I had this situation with a new hire, and the feedback I gave him was something like, “When you ask for help, you aren’t giving me enough context to know what you’re talking about. Instead of just saying ‘this,’ could you include the Jira item and what you’re trying to do?”

        It worked like a charm; he does a great job of framing his questions now. (In my case, I think it was at least in part that he was assuming that I was tracking his work MUCH more closely than I actually was. Yeah, I was following along on most of his items, but that meant that I was catching up once or twice a day, not that I knew what he was working on at any given moment. He also has some tendency to assume that I know everything, which may be related.)

    5. Sharon*

      Actually, if LW2 just tells her direct report to “communicate better” she is also not providing enough context. It’s part of LW2’s role as a manager to help her direct report understand what type of information he needs to provide. It isn’t bad to ask lots of questions when your direct report comes to you with an issue! It’s just factfinding so that you can help him identify and solve the problem, plus it’s modeling the types of information he will need to ask himself/others in the future. He may very well be speaking in generalities because he doesn’t understand who the key players or systems are or what they are called.

    6. Heffalump*

      I once had a peer like that. He’d say, “Did she give you the background on this project?” “She” was our manager. This was in a small company–single-digit number of employees. I could figure out by context who he meant, but it was mildly annoying.

  3. Doesn't Hurt To Ask*

    Re #4:

    had a similar situation recently, I had just switched teams internally (but same role), and part of my onboarding with the new team was that I was expected to set up nearly a dozen 1-on-1s with various teammates and people min adjacent support roles.

    The thought of doing so mande we want to curl up and hide, so I end up being just completely straight with my new manager that I really didn’t want to do all of that awkward conversation, and he gave me the go ahead to skip them all and instead just introduce myself as needed to new people as I came across them in our day-to-day. It was such a relief and worked out so much better for us. It worth it to advocate for yourself and say what you need. And often you’re not the only one thinking a crazy situation is crazy!

    1. Emmy Noether*

      This sounds similar to how we do our onboarding, with the difference that the team coordinates and sets up the meetings, an that each meeting has a specific topic to over. It’s not “awkward conversation”, it’s one person going over our project management process, one person explaining our technology, one person showing how to use a program…

      It works really well, and in those first two weeks a new hire typically has an open schedule and nothing to do anyway. We even use it as a selling point in our candidate interviews! I don’t think we do the full thing for internal transfers, though.

      It’s also not the same situation as the letter, because these are one-offs at a time where the person is by definition not busy yet.

      1. amoeba*

        Yeah, same here – we do this to meet all the new colleagues in the first weeks and it’s great (also, during that period there is typically more than enough time for those one on ones, as project work hasn’t really started up yet…)
        Somebody pushing back against that would be really weird here and no, it’s not the same as weekly meetings with a bunch of different people. It’s basically introductions so you can put a face to the name and understand how the department works!

      2. Mairead*

        That sounds great. When I started my current job (during plague so nobody was in-office), there was some suggestion that people would set up meetings to introduce themselves. Yeah, it was kinda awkward – thankfully it’s not a large team so not a lot of meetings. A specific topic after a bit of small-talk would have made it so much easier.

      3. ferrina*

        Our company does a similar onboarding practice. We found that when we left it to new hires to “introduce yourself as you interact”, many new hires would limit interaction and not introduce themselves to the key people that they needed to know because the new hire “didn’t want to bother them”.

        Now the onboarding team sets up the meetings so they don’t get skipped. It can be a little awkward, but long term it has made new hires more comfortable in reaching out to collaborate.

      4. Tio*

        Yep, same here. Each one is a little mini explanation of a team’s role in the process so you have a better understanding of the company’s flow and how you fit in.

      5. Lady Danbury*

        That’s exactly what happened when I started my current job. HR had set up a series of one on one conversations, both in person and remotely, where the other person explained their role and how it interacted with mine. One person even gave me an overview of the entire company structure, which was extremely helpful since it’s fairly complex.

        It was a great way to meet my new coworkers and get an overview of what they do and how it impacts what I would be doing, as well as start building those key relationships.

  4. coffee*

    LW3 – tell them they’re dreaming! The whole deal with a job is that you exchange your labour for money. This is the complete opposite of that – you’re supposed to give up your PTO for travel time, your weekend, AND pay $600?! HELL NO. This is so unreasonable it has moved into a new, even more unreasonable state that we have no words to describe.

    1. Emmy Noether*

      I re-read that letter like five times because I thought I must have missed something, it’s so outrageous.

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        the key words were in the beginning — start up.

        Of course a start up is going to try to pull this. Yes not all start ups. But it is not surprising that it is a start up. They either don’t know business norms, don’t think they apply or think they are too cool to follow those stuffy old rules. Other option is they can’t afford to pay for it. In which case, you don’t do it. If a business cannot afford the costs of business travel, then it doesn’t require people to travel for business.

        1. MassMatt*

          Came here to say this. If the start-up cannot afford an off-site meeting without making an employee (let alone an admin!) pay $600 and use their PTO for it then it’s not something they should do. Meet in the office over the weekend if this can’t be done during normal hours (why can’t it?), find a local hotel or meeting hall that doesn’t involve travel (and pay for it!) or maybe this “strategic planning” is actually not essential.

          Also giving side-eye to a start-up that has zero remote working. Is this a start-up from 20 years ago?

          1. I Have RBF*

            A lot of start-ups have drunk the koolaid on open plan, in-person “collaboration” being some sort of magical miracle process that is a guarantee of world shattering success, when the reality is that even open plan benching is expensive real estate and does not enhance productivity a single bit, and for knowledge workers hinders it.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          But they’re partners, not just employees, so as partial owners they shouldn’t insist on being paid or having their expenses covered! /sarc

          Yes, I worked at a start-up. Yes, the CEO tried to convince me to work for free and threatened to sue me for breach of contract when when I wouldn’t. He demanded everyone else sacrifice as much for his company as he did, even though he didn’t offer stock/partial ownership. I left after 4 months and was literally the last rat to flee the ship he was going down with.

          1. Meep*

            I still work for a start-up. It is in a better place now (with better management), but boy did they wave those stock options over our heads for 4-5 years trying to entice us. By Year 2, I was all “that’s great, don’t believe ya” anytime it was brought up to hang-in there and do asinine things.

            I am glad they dumped the baggage that was my old manager because we are actually profitable now! (Part of the reason we weren’t was she was stealing from the company and using raises designed for employees to bump her salary, but that is another story~)

        3. Bleu*

          They either don’t know business norms, don’t think they apply or think they are too cool to follow those stuffy old rules, or option 3 is they’re boundary-testing their staff to see who will put up with more and more outrageous bs.

        4. LL*

          My guess is that they can’t actually afford to pay for this and are trying to force their employees to pay. Which, as you said, means they shouldn’t do it!

    2. KateM*

      Ah, but you see, they are not inviting OP as an employee – they are inviting OP as one of the owners of the company. Admittedly I have only read in fiction about in-person shareholder meetings, but I can imagine that a regular employee would be all in arms at the thought of those rich owners being paid by the company to have a weekend trip to discuss how to squeeze more profit out of the company.

      1. Panda (she/her)*

        It’s actually very typical that leadership teams attend offsite retreats to discuss strategic planning – even in public sector, where funds are much more closely monitored! In many companies, senior leadership are also partners/part owners/shareholders in the company. And nobody tends to bat an eye.

        1. WellRed*

          But OP is an admin so this particular situation is ridiculous. As is pretending she’s some sort of partner. While it may technically be true, she’s in no way equal in terms of money or status.

          1. Panda (she/her)*

            Definitely not disagreeing with that point. I was responding to KateM’s comment that it would be outrageous for owners/shareholders to have a company-paid in-person shareholder meeting. In my experience (tech/public sector/consulting) this is completely normal and expected.

      2. metadata minion*

        I’m up in arms about the economic disparity between myself and the top administration, but I wouldn’t bat an eye at the idea that their meetings are paid work time. That’s just how business works.

      3. CityMouse*

        Making everyone a partner is a potential red flag. Depends on how many people we’re talking about and their role, but given LW’s description of their role, this feels very off.

        2. MassMatt*

          I wonder about that too, a partnership is very different from a corporation with shareholders, with different financial benefits and liabilities. Having everyone, including admin staff, be partners seems strange. No slight to admin staff intended.

        3. MigraineMonth*

          A lot of start-ups don’t have a lot of money, so part of employee compensation is voting stock in the company. That makes all the employees partial owners of the company with a vote in some important decisions. I think that’s what’s meant by all the employees being “partners”.

          Expecting those who have already accepted below-market-rate pay (gambling on that stock eventually paying off) to cover business expenses, particularly the lowest paid employees, is a special kind of awful.

          1. A Significant Tree*

            Yes, this. You accept a “partner” status, stake in the company usually in promised stock, in exchange for lower salary now. (My spouse’s jobs were like this a handful of times in the past and now basically requires full market-level salary rather than stock when he works for tech start-ups.)

            However, even in start-up land “strategic planning” about work is work, not unpaid time.

          2. MigraineMonth*

            I see from LW’s comment below it isn’t even voting stock. This whole thing is just grade-A bullshit.

        4. Freya*

          Yeah, that made me twitch SO HARD. Being a partner makes you liable for every illegal thing done in the name of the business. And for the debts of the business, even the ones you had no oversight of or ability to control.

      4. MotherofaPickle*

        My loval grocery chain is “employee owned”. I can guarantee that the Nice Young Man Who Doesn’t Card me (I think he’s Asst Manager), would never be able to afford that nonsense.

    3. Rhymetime*

      While they think it’s disadvantageous
      I agree this is really outrageous
      If you can say no
      Then others won’t go
      I hope your viewpoint is contagious

    4. Cat Tree*

      Also, Alison didn’t touch on this part but:
      I don’t know what they mean by “partner” but it is almost certainly some shenanigans to avoid paying overtime for employees who can not legally be exempt, and probably for some other shady financial reasons too. This whole company seems to be full of bees.

    5. El l*

      “It doesn’t make sense that I have to take PTO for a work trip, which – call it what you want to -this is. It doesn’t make sense that at least my hotel and travel isn’t being paid for.

      This is a cost of doing business. Period.”

      1. bamcheeks*

        It sounds like the revised offer is that the hotel is paid for and they can count the travel to the destination as work time, but they’re still expected to give up their weekend and pay for their own meals/travel? Which is still bullshit, even if it’s slightly less bullshit.

    6. honeygrim*

      Yeah. If you’re non-exempt, and your job is requiring you to be somewhere, then that’s work. And you shouldn’t have to pay to go to work.

      1. Learn ALL the things*

        And adding to that, even in a startup, the business should pay for business expenses. If the business can’t afford to pay for the business expense of sending staff on a trip, it should not be sending staff on a trip. Full stop.

          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Yeah, the whole situation is suspicious. Even if the cashflow is ok at the moment, these people don’t seem to know how businesses work. Is it California where companies must pay for all their employees’ business expenses? I hope other places pick up on that because this kind of employee gouging should be illegal everywhere, especially given the power imbalances involved. Employee is told by company owners that they need to pay for their own hotel room? Employee asks if the company can pay for the room because that’s what a business is supposed to do? Owners now see employee as a trouble maker.

            And if the owners don’t have much of a clue how businesses work with regards to business travel, what else do they not have a clue about? Ugh, OP, I hate to tell you to jump ship; I’m sure the job has a lot of good things about it, but this situation sounds like the tip of the iceberg of bad management. Might be worth it to at least explore other job prospects.

            1. I Have RBF*

              Yeah, I wonder what other attempts at wage theft they are making? Definitely an RGE. The red flags are numerous.

        2. fhqwhgads*

          Also if this start up is lucky enough to be in California, do not pass go, do not attempt to make employees pay any business expenses ever. Completely illegal. Full stop.

    7. LW3*

      Hi! LW 3 here. Thank you all helping see how not normal it was. I sort of thought maybe I was being too difficult? I just wanted to provide some additional context.

      1. I believe they offer “partnership (non equity shares with no voting power) to a majority of us because we absolutely are underpaid as a tool to keep us there.
      2. Originally they were not paying for the hotel and offering the $100 as a travel reimbursement. That was it! I’m thinking a lot of people complained, which is when they started paying for the hotel, but are not offering the reimbursement. Literally just the hotel and a lunch is provided for “sessions” that last 8 hours on Saturday and Sunday.
      3. Their solution to get to a city 4 hours away was to have us work just a half day. Refusing to let us work from home, when all the execs going are salaried and certainly will not be in office.

      It certainly feels like an economic divide at work where if you are paid at the executive level this shouldn’t be difficult. But at the admin level, we all were just stressed trying to make it work in our budgets. Thank you for the insight!

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I believe they offer “partnership (non equity shares with no voting power) to a majority of us because we absolutely are underpaid as a tool to keep us there.

        Oh dear, that’s not great. And they expect you to travel FOUR HOURS to get to this city? Are you driving four hours? Will they reimburse mileage? (No, of course they won’t.) And they are only paying for LUNCH????

        OP, my previous nonprofit job was a small organization with a budget of about $5 million, most of which came from donations, and we all WFH and lived all over the US. We had a quorum in New England b/c that’s where the office was located before the pandemic, and several times a year we’d have all-staff in-person meetings near Boston. About 1/3-1/2 of the staff was flown in and put up in a hotel for three nights, and the org provided all meals for the traveling staff and lunches for the local people. (And btw, these meetings happened DURING THE WORK WEEK, not on a weekend. Your company is NUTS to expect people to do their normal work all week, go to a work meeting on the weekend, and then go back to work for the following week.)

        My point being, small nonprofits can pay for their employees’ travel expenses and your company should be able to as well. The fact that they won’t is actually pretty terrible.

      2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        LW3 allow me to be blunt for a moment – job hunt. No seriously. I know its easier said than done but there’s no harm is checking your options.

        Equity in the company only matters if the shares are ever worth anything. A company that behaves this way may never be worth enough to put up with this.

        2. ferrina*

          Yep. You don’t need to leave right away, but this company is clearly bonkers. This won’t be the last bonkers thing they do.

          Start your casual job search, be picky, and make sure this situation is only temporary.

        3. Artemesia*

          I know two people at entirely different start ups that were paid in mostly shares who got fired the day before the shares would vest — so they got their labor to get things going and paid minimum wage for that and then stole the equity they had earned. In one case the business went belly up anyway, but in the other, it meant a huge actual loss of value for the employee.

          This place sounds pretty financially fragile, I’d be looking like crazy for a new job.

          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            I’d be spending that weekend updating my resume and looking like crazy for a new job rather than attending whatever boring mtgs the company has planned. That sucks for those ppl you know, Artemesia!

          2. Gumby*

            That is awful. The times I worked for startups our stock options vested over time. So after 1 year 1/4 of them vested, after the second year another quarter, etc. So at least they could have only gotten one year of work out of anyone. (Of course, neither of those places tried to game the system like that anyway. And the one of them that did have company retreats did it during the work week and they paid and arranged for travel, lodging, and most of our food – meals that fell during our free time weren’t covered but that was usually like 2 lunches or something. Also it was a mix of 50% work stuff and 50% fun/teambuilding if you squinted.)

    8. Bike Walk Barb*

      The idea that strategic planning about the workplace isn’t work is among the many jaw-dropping elements of this scenario.

      I’d start job-hunting. This doesn’t feel like an organization that’s going to have payback for whatever “being a partner” stands for in their world. (And is all of that in writing with specifics?)

    9. DJ*

      OUTRAGEOUS. Seek advice from your state and federal departments that provide industrial/workplace relations advice. Also, push back and say either what Alison suggested or “I’m not willing to use PTO or my own money to attend a non-paid work activity”
      A workplace is NOT a charity! Nor is a recreational activity that some individuals may decline in their personal lives due to cost, the need to take PTO or not of your liking.

    1. Aggretsuko*

      Mine too. I’m glad my bullies don’t do theater and I moved away from my hometown.

      If Jane is as popular as she is and in a bunch of shows, it may be hard to avoid her, frankly. Also bullies tend to kiss up/kick down, so I bet a bunch of people she’s doing the former to love her.

      I’d probably say to stay publicly neutral about Jane, because yes, theater gossip gets around and having open feuding with someone probably won’t go well for OP.

      1. Meep*

        My parents still live next door (well they live behind us) the girl that assaulted me in 5th grade while her mother literally watched her do it. (We were walking home, her mother let her walk home and drove behind us as this girl kept stepping on the back of my knees). Somehow, by some miracle, both her brother (a known neighborhood vandal whose M.O. is to pee on cars) and her haven’t ended up in jail yet.

        Boy the whole neighborhood was/is scared/hates her mom. To this day, her mom still tries to turn anyone moving in against my parents because they were the only ones who called the cops on these two psychopaths (Brother broke my sister’s bedroom window with a BB gun and the parents refused to pay until my dad did. Up to this point any destruction was shrugged off – even him vandalizing my aunt and uncle’s front door), before they realize what an utter POS the whole family is.

        Fortunately for me, my bully is an utter loser in life so I can laugh when I see her and her mom in person. But I hope that LW’s bully has really turned herself around and isn’t going to go back to being horrid once she doesn’t get the part she wants.

  6. WoodswomanWrites*

    LW1, I’m sorry to hear about the bullying you went through and how it’s affected your life in the past and now. No one deserves to be treated like that. What’s getting my attention in your post is that the presence of the bully in your community theater group is making you physically ill and that “I’m nearly 30, but I am not over what she did to me.”

    My situation isn’t identical but here’s how I got past a traumatic relationship that was troubling me years later, including affecting my job performance. I saw a therapist who helped me not be so reactive, helping me recognize that I was being triggered by situations as if this awful person were still in my life when they were long gone. I’m not a psychologist and don’t pretend in any way to be an expert, but my lay understanding is that this is a common response to trauma.

    What worked for me was a particular kind of therapy called EMDR, designed to move you past trauma in just a few sessions. It helped me put the experience with the other person into the past instead of it coming up in the present. I actually ran into that individual years later at public performances, twice. After doing EMDR, I was able to calmly say to myself: “There’s that awful person. I will avoid them and sit elsewhere in the theater.” Before I had done therapy, I’m pretty sure I would have had a strong reaction to seeing them and getting really upset.

    To be clear, this is not saying what the person did to you is okay. It’s empowering yourself to put the experience behind you in a way that doesn’t make it feel like it’s still happening more than a decade later. It’s being kind to yourself so you can no longer feel ill thinking about them and go back to being capable in your day job.

    I hope you can get to a place that feels better, however that may be.

    1. ThatOtherClare*

      WoodswomanWrites is offering excellent advice. Right now your bully still has power over you. Even the mention of her name is influencing your actions and emotions in a way you don’t want. She doesn’t deserve any kind of ability to influence you whatsoever! Stuff her! Successful therapy will give you back the power to control your own feelings and reactions towards her. Anger, if you want it. Disgust or disdain. Sometimes you might even choose to feel pity for a person so vacuous and pathetic that they couldn’t think of anything more fun to do with their time than torture an easy target. But most importantly, you’ll have the option to choose indifference. At that point the last vestiges of her power will melt away. You will be strong and mighty as a mountain and she be nothing more than a snowflake tumbling past you in the breeze.

    2. Sister George Michael*

      Somewhat similarly, I would recommend the book Forgive For Good by Dr Fred Luskin. It’s not about forgiving the bad person but about how to think about what happened to you in a way that lets you move on with your life.

    3. Longtimelurker*

      This is great advice. I have PTSD from past traumatic relationships, including bullying. I needed both initial therapy when it was happening and then years later when I became symptomatic again.

      You definitely aren’t alone and I’m sending you lots of supportive energy

      1. ferrina*

        PTSD loves to re-occur. You can be symptom free for years, then something can re-trigger it. Echoing Longtimelurker- OP, you are not alone.

    5. Hyaline*

      Thanks for sharing this. I think sometimes the impulse to just say “try therapy” comes from a good place, but not all therapy is created equal, and not all kinds work well for all situations, and someone can chase their own tail “trying therapy” and still feeling like the issue is unresolved and think “well, therapy didn’t work.” A specific recommendation is really kind and helpful!

    6. Gigi*

      Adding to this excellent therapy advice, remember that taking care of yourself isn’t “letting her win.” If she hasn’t grown enough to proactively acknowledge her behavior and try to atone with you now that you’re back in the same world, she’s a piece of shit and we don’t care what she does or how she reacts. What we care about, and what you should care about, is you, our new internet stranger friend. You can’t control her or what she thinks. But you can control how you react and how you care for yourself. I’m sorry this happened to you. Come back to us if you need the validation of internet stranger friends again.

      Also, if you need help finding a therapist who does EMDR, I can’t recommend Zen Care enough. You enter what kind of therapy you’re looking for as well as your insurance (if you’re using it) and it produces a list of therapists in your area who are taking new patients, take your insurance, and can help with your specific needs. (Mine were grief, anxiety, and ADHD, for example.) The hardest part of therapy can be finding a therapist and making all those calls is exhausting when you’re already struggling. This was a godsend for me. Good luck!

    7. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      EMDR is surprisingly fast in helping with PTSD reactions to trauma. It’s not necessarily the last step but it is a fantastic first step. I was so skeptical when my husband did it but in 3 sessions he had an almost complete reduction in anxiety response.

  7. AnotherSarah*

    OP1, no advice but it sucks that you’re dealing with this. I’m 42 and the thought of hearing about my middle school bully is terrifying to me! I’m sure you’re not alone in that, if it helps.

  8. learnedthehardway*

    OP#5 – no, you didn’t mess up at all. Email is a low context communication medium. My bet (being a recruiter) is that the recruiter wanted to simply clarify that things are moving slowly, but have not stopped. If they had wanted to reject you, they would have said so, I think.

    Either way, I would assume that they’re not going to make a hiring decision right now and would focus my job search elsewhere.

    1. Allonge*

      This. ‘Suspended’ may also mean something very specific in the org’s internal processes, in which case the recruiter may just have felt a stronger need to clarify this is not the case.

      1. Kelly L.*

        That was my thought. As in, the recruiter might be in hot water if anyone thought she was representing the process as “suspended,” so she wanted to be clear for the record.

    2. londonedit*

      Yeah, I assumed it was more the recruiter saying ‘Oh, no, we haven’t suspended the process – we’re still moving forward but things are progressing more slowly than we envisaged’. ‘Suspended’ to me would mean they’d stopped the process indefinitely, so I can understand the recruiter wanting to clarify that it was still ongoing.

        1. ferrina*

          This is how I read it. Something is happening internally that’s impacted the hiring process, but they don’t want to lose OP as a candidate.

          But also agree with learnedthehardway’s comment to focus elsewhere. Sometimes the job process will restart, and sometimes it won’t (I had my boss “slow down” hiring for an open role, and by “slow down” she meant “pause until people forgot about it, so I don’t actually have to say it’s cancelled”).

    3. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Yeah, I actually suspect the recruiter responded back more to assure LW that there was still an opportunity available. No need for LW to apologize for anything.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        Yeah, that was how I took it too. If the recruiter sounded a little blunt or annoyed, it’s possible they are more annoyed at themself for not being clearer.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          It’s also really easy to sound blunt/annoyed when you’re in a hurry. It always takes me longer to go back and add softening language.

          (Yes, I’m a woman. Yes, there’s a reason I sign my emails “Thanks! MigraineMonth” even when that makes very little sense.)

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I suspect they don’t want OP (or anyone) talking to others about this and saying company x has suspended hiring. Announcing a hiring freeze or cancelling planned hiring sends a certain message about the company. (But I wouldn’t hold my breath for this “ongoing” process to result in anything.)

    5. BrooklynAnalyst*

      OP#5 here. As Allison and many of you suspected, this was much ado about nothing. About 4 days after this exchange, the recruiter got back in touch and scheduled me for the second interview (which was this morning and it went very well!) I think I probably read too much into her email and got worried because I am really excited about this role and I was worried I’d screwed it up.

  9. SarahToo!*

    LW1 – Sometimes it helpful to reframe the conversation from a place of confident confusion. Next time someone is going on about how great Jane is, you could say “Huh, seems like she was going through something when I knew her.” Or “Really? She was a bit of a mean girl in high school”. Use a very neutral tone and then move the conversation in a different direction. A discerning listener will get that this is in the past and that you keep your distance. Sending hugs and love – no job is worth your health.

    1. Aglet*

      I was coming to suggest that if you don’t want to do anything Alison suggested, could you change the subject whenever Jane comes up? Or have a great need to listen to music or a podcast “to help you focus” so you’re not part of these conversations? I think SarahToo!’s idea is even better though.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I like both of these as a jumping off point but feel like these prolong the conversation and suggest an interest in talking about bully’s character arc, unless you pair it with a definitive “so can we talk about something else?” If OP would rather not reveal that much, I’d be tempted to go with an entire subject change, like physically interrupting people and saying “so, tell me about your high school, was there a drama club?” Or if they mention Bully as the lead part in a musical: “Anyone done any musicals? Can anyone sing?” Basically pick up on part of the conversation but subtract the bully. A lot depends on why they keep talking about her. If it’s trying to make conversation with OP about this tidbit they’ve revealed about their high school days, OP may need to indicate negativity about the relationship with the bully and a desire to not talk about them. If they think OP might have an in with the influential person in their community, OP might be able to snuff it out with “Actually I haven’t seen her in years/don’t know her very well” and see how that lands.

      1. Sean*

        “Actually I haven’t seen her in years/don’t know her very well”

        This is probably the best response to give.

        Any other response referring to unpleasant history with Jane, or how bad she was during her school days, might risk people going back to Jane to hear what she has to say on the matter: “Hey, OP has just joined us. Do you remember her? OP seemed uncomfortable when we mentioned you. What happened between the two of you when you were at school?” What Jane might do after that depends on whether or not her character has matured and reformed since her school days.

        That’s why I feel it’s best to give the calmest and most neutral response when people are singing Jane’s praises to you. “Yeah, we were in the same year but we didn’t socialise. We were in different friend groups. I just recognised her name when you mentioned her.”

    3. Nodramalama*

      I probably wouldn’t use terms like “mean girl” because I don’t think that always reads as neutral. I find that sometimes when you use terms like mean girl people perceive it as gossipy and take it an invitation to discuss more.

      1. Not on board*

        Agree that it’s not the best terminology for shutting down talk about your bully. Just acknowledge that she’s probably a good person now but that she bullied you in school and you’d prefer not to talk about it.

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        I personally dislike it because it is gendered. As a secondary school teacher, I can assure you teenage boys are just as likely as girls to exclude others, start rumours about them, snigger behind their backs, whisper about them, make nasty remarks that have deniability, etc, but nobody talks about “mean boy” behaviour and even when I’ve worked in schools where the group engaging in such behaviour all happen to be boys, teachers tend to say stuff like, “they’re as bad as the girls!” Even when no girl in the class or year being discussed engages in that behaviour.

        I feel it plays into the “boys can be aggressive, but at least they are DIRECT about it; girls are mean” narrative, which in my experience isn’t true at all. Some of the slyest “mean kid” behaviour I’ve seen has been from boys.

        Which is to say, especially I the LW is female presenting, I’d avoid it as it could be seen as “oh, girls being dramatic…lol, catfight.”

        Not to criticise SarahToo’s use of it which sounded just like a factual statement, but just to agree that even something like “she was a bit mean in high school” would avoid it possibly seeming loaded.

      3. Bleu*

        Yeah “mean girl” signifies socially dominant, catty, gossipy but not exactly a straight up bully. That would make it sound like you’re having an overly strong reaction to some typical bad adolescent behavior.

    4. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Both of these come across as an “Ask me more about this mysterious past I’m alluding to!” approach, which I think is basically the opposite of what LW wants, especially since this doesn’t ask for the behaviour (bringing up the bully) to stop.

      “Bully and I have a history, would you mind not mentioning her to me?” is very different from “Huh, seems like she was really going through it in high school. Anyway, don’t you just love the set design?” One is actionable, the other just feels like editorializing.

      1. Silver Robin*

        yes agreed; if someone said those things to me, I would absolutely immediately assume they were dropping hints about things and even in the most neutral tone, it sounds gossipy to me.

        Honestly, why not just point out that it is weird that they keep bringing her up? Like a variation of a light “Guys, we just went to high school at the same time, we were not close, you do not need to bring her up so much! [Subject changes!!!]”

        1. bamcheeks*

          that it is weird that they keep bringing her up?

          I thought there were two possibilities here — either they are deliberately bringing her up because they think there’s a connection between LW and her and think they’re referring to a friend-in-common, OR LW is so sensitive to mentions of Jane that indirect references to past productions, theatre groups, social groups etc that Jane was involved in feel just as bad to her as direct references to Jane.

          If it’s the latter, this isn’t a reflection on LW: that kind of association is a pretty common trauma response! But it can help to realise that “Yeah, when they performed Wicked across town, they had the chorus llamas in green…” isn’t actually a reference to Jane just because she was involved that that production/venue/group, and you can sometimes weaken the association or the reaction by naming it to yourself.

          1. Princess Pumpkin Spice*

            I second this. I’m not doubting OP that Jane is being mentioned / spoken about, but I wonder if she may have a bit of “new car” syndrome – you buy a green Jeep and are suddenly seeing green Jeeps everywhere. Unfortunately, it sounds like Jane is deeply entrenched in this theatre… OP, I’m sorry this is so distressing for you. But I think your choices really do boil down to speak up or move on.

          2. Thespian*

            Unfortunately, they were direct references to her name. One of my castmates is working with her on another show. It will be easier to handle now that I know there’s a connection. I also posted a small update below.

            1. bamcheeks*

              Oof! What a very small world.

              I do hope it is something that keeps getting easier with time, but if you find it isn’t, I would definitely consider talking to a counsellor. Bullying trauma is real and can be incapacitating, but there are therapies that can help. <3

    5. AnonInCanada*

      I’m not sure if I would suggest this advice to OP. While I recognize the need to shift the conversation away from Jane, saying things like “…she was a bit of a mean girl in high school” will more likely than not do the exact opposite: Their curiosities will pique, and they’ll want to pry more into what OP meant by that.

      Someone upthread suggested the best words. Saying, (paraphrasing): “I knew Jane in high school. We didn’t really get along. Say, did you catch last night?” Hopefully, the subject changes from there, and OP doesn’t have to deal with having to regurgitate past drama.

      1. AnonInCanada*

        Note to self: stop using angle brackets. (Favourite TV show) should have appeared between “catch” and “last night.”

    6. jasmine*

      LW doesn’t need to divulge history if she doesn’t want to, but what struck me about the letter if that LW doesn’t think this is an option.

      The fact that LW is negatively affected by trauma from HS is not a reflection of her, it’s a reflection of Jane. I’ve also been dealing with some feelings lately around still “letting” someone from my past negatively affect my life. But we’re human. We’re going to be affected by bad things done to us by undeserving people, and we need to decide how we want to deal with those effects head on. That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

      You can absolutely say something about the bullying. You don’t have to and you can choose not to, but you can. The reasons you have for not sharing make sense, but I’d dig deeper into them with a therapist.

    7. DisgruntledPelican*

      Either one of these phrases would come across as “teehee, I’ve got tea to spill” which I don’t think it quite what OP is looking to convey.

  10. Two cents*

    LW1 it sounds like you feel that your only coping mechanism is to grit your teeth and power through. But as the situation is already affecting your health and job performance I think you need to consider other options. Doing nothing will only make the situation more unbearable.

    The next time her name comes up what would really be the downside to saying something like “my experience with her in high school was not positive and I’d prefer not to hear about her anymore, thanks for understanding”? This statement doesn’t disclose any real personal information about you (or her), nor is it unprofessional. It merely sets a boundary for you (and the others don’t need to know how necessary to your health that boundary really is).

    1. Sleve*

      Unfortunately that kind of firm but vague statement is a green light to the gossip train. It’s a great statement for a confident person in a healthy environment, but the letter writer doesn’t seem to want to risk being forced to fight for their boundaries if it turns out that they’re in the presence of boundary pushers.

      1. Ellie*

        What about something more neutral, like, ‘I’m sorry but I think I overstated how well I knew her. We were there at the same time, but we never hung out or anything. I really don’t know much about her.’ Then try to introduce some new topic of gossip, if you can. Someone you do know, or an unusual hobby, or something that redirects the conversation.

        Even as I typed that though, I can see it might be very hard if this person is particularly charismatic, as some bullies are. I know of someone who didn’t bully me, but I hate them. They are an objectively awful person, and have actually caused real harm to several people I know. They were the main reason I almost lost several people actually, and intellectually, I know that isn’t 100% on them, but if you’re the cause of so much pain to more than a few different people, in different circumstances, there’s a problem with you, right? But he is also an extremely polished communicator, and extremely charismatic. It’s very hard to know quite what to say when people ask if I know him, and then gush about how wonderful (!) he is.

        OP – try to go the low drama approach, and work on improving your own state of mind and resilience first. But nothing is more important than your mental health. If you feel you can’t deal with it, you should leave and move on.

        1. ThatOtherClare*

          Perhaps ‘Oh I know OF him/her but I don’t KNOW him/her. I’m sure it’s hard to believe, but back then our interests never overlapped! And he/she had so much going on that we never hung out. Such is life. But speaking of old connections, how’s (mutual friend) going? I haven’t spoken to them in way too long.’

          1. Panda (she/her)*

            My mind immediately went to “and those interests that never overlapped were apparently things like “be a kind person” and “don’t destroy other people’s mental health”.

            Not that anyone else would know that’s the subtext.

        2. Purple Turtle*

          ‘I’m sorry but I think I overstated how well I knew her. We were there at the same time, but we never hung out or anything. I really don’t know much about her.’ – Excellent approach. If OP1 says something like this, it would be pointless, even weird, if the other person continued to talk about the bully.

          1. KateM*

            To me, “I overstated” sounds like OP admitting of having exaggerated and may even leave the feeling that OP tried to brag about their connection. Isn’t it possible to reword it to “misunderstanding” or something like that?

              1. Ellie*

                Yes that is better. I only went for ‘overstated’ because it can help to smooth things over if you admit a bit of fault yourself. As in, ‘you’re not at all at fault for thinking I knew him better than I do. But now that I’ve corrected the record, there’s no point in talking about him to me anymore.’ That’s the subtext.

                Another one that works in my particular situation is, ‘I was better friends with his wife and we didn’t stay in touch much after their divorce’. I haven’t actually met his new wife at all.’ This has the double effect of letting them know that I’m in no way acting as a reference for him, just by knowing him, and also, that he has a new wife. Which is something that he tends to hide from people. But that isn’t going to work for OP.

          2. Carlie*

            I was wondering if at least some of the people have ramped UP talking about the other person precisely because they think it’s a connection that will help their relationship with LW#1. If I know I have a mutual friend with someone, that’s a natural entry point into a friendship with them too. The phrasing you suggested could be just the thing to dampen the talk if that’s the situation too.

          3. Cyndi*

            The thing I worry about with the “eh, we didn’t really know each other” type responses some people are suggesting is that it could prompt people to go “Awwww, but she’s so great, we should get you two to hang out since you were schoolmates!”

            1. Ellie*

              That could happen anyway if they already think OP and this person are friends. It’s still a risk, but overall I think its less likely that they’ll want to set something up.

          4. Mostly Lurker*

            I’ve used variations of this when asked about people from high school (not bullying related; I just didn’t know them well). “I know who she is, but we didn’t have classes together/didn’t hang out/we had different friend groups” and that ends it.

      2. Two cents*

        Ok so tell the gossips it’s because she refused to wear pink on Wednesdays. Or something equally silly.
        But again doing nothing isn’t working. So why not try something instead of letting the memory of bullying destroy everything that the LW has worked for?

        1. Wings*

          The LW can’t really invent anything. Their nice coworkers might take it back to this former bully who would understandably be confused what this talk about not wearing pink on Wednesdays is all about and then somebody might try to rectify the “misunderstanding” or something which the LW presumably does not want. I vote for truthful and firm but vague. Others have given good suggestions on how to possibly phrase it as difficult teenage history that don’t need to be revisited. There are so many ways teenagers hurt each other’s feelings that someone might not want to delve into in later life and the gossips are free to choose their own interpretation.

          1. Seashell*

            Yeah, turning this into something jokey seems like it’s both making light of the real situation and making it confusing.

            1. Irish Teacher.*

              I also think it could encourage the chat, because honestly, if somebody said, “she was a Kildare supporter so obviously I couldn’t maintain contact” or “we weren’t friends because she wouldn’t wear pink on Wednesdays,” I’d assume it was a joke and the person really was a good friend of hers (who possibly regretted losing contact) and is referencing an in-joke between them.

    2. JSPA*

      “high school was pretty vicious, frankly. I’m glad she and I have apparently both turned into decent adults, but it doesn’t do me any good to mentally revisit those years.”

      And if it helps, tell yourself there’s a non-zero chance that the bully was also having a horrendous life, and passing along some viciousness from their family, and people like her not because she’s still an evil spider pulling strings, but because she dealt with her own demons, and has since done a 180 degree change in outlook, attitude and behavior.

      Unless she’s still vicious, in which case, if you want to stay in theater, you may have to get creative about where and when (e.g. summer stock someplace she doesn’t go, if your other job is teaching… stay long enough to find out if there’s a nearby city where she’s persona non grata in the theater community there, and shift your attentions there…)

  11. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #1 I’m so sorry you suffered this horrible bullying and are now being constantly reminded of it.

    Don’t let that gobshite Jane wreck your adult life too.
    I agree with others that ruling out all the options to deal with this …. is not a good option. You should prioritise your health above embarassment or this show.
    You’re an actor but it sounds like your day job is what actually pays the bills, so you must keep up your work standard there. Losing that job would likely worsen your MH and also impede your ability to keep acting.

    I suggest renewed therapy and also fending off Jane-fans with say:
    “Unfortunately Jane was not kind to me at high school. I’m glad if she has grown as a person after this, but I’d still rather not hear about her any more, thanks”

    1. Gust of wind*

      Yes, I like this script a lot. I think beeing to vague will make people curious. But I think this is clear enough that most people will be satisfied with that context. And if someone actually as further “It was a long time ago. I don’t want to gossip about high-school stuff”.
      But it’s difficult to act nonchalant about things that are actually a big deal. I am sorry this happened/is happening to LW and I wish them the best getting through it!

    2. Muso*

      Professional musician here. Why assume that a ‘day job’ must pay the bills? It’s perfectly possible to make a living from the arts- and from playing/doing rather than teaching.
      It’s frustrating how many negative stereotypes there are of artistic professions… imagine making that same comment about a STEM related job.

      1. Nodramalama*

        I think this is off topic and also they were going off LWs letter. Not saying nobody makes money from the arts.

      2. ThatOtherClare*

        No shade on your profession. Plenty of STEM jobs don’t pay the bills nowadays either, especially if you’re in an academic institution. Those kinds of comments are extremely common in the S and the M parts of STEM circles. In fact I’d say being an underpaid scientific researcher is the norm rather than the exception. They just tend to have night jobs instead of day jobs.

      3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        I’m assuming that if you make a living from the arts or anything else, then you don’t need a “day job”. I’d expect the OP to have said “side job” if it was just a pt top-up, but maybe they’ll update this.
        No aspersions meant on your field, but it does have a high % of people who have to rely on other money to live.

          1. Ms. Eleanous*

            Take heart, LW1, community theatres may have really long rehearsal periods, but the show won’t run very long.
            Maybe the Muse is telling you to set your sights higher:
            may this be your last unpaid job.

            Merde and Break a Leg.

      4. Ferret*

        I don’t think it is derogatory to the arts to say the they have a higher proportion of people on no/very low pay than STEM careers – especially as LW explicitly states “my work at my day job is slipping”. It seems like a pretty normal assumption that if an actor has a day job it is to pay the bills – that’s why most people have a job at all!

      5. Magpie*

        It’s odd to get so upset and say it’s a negative stereotype. I’m a musician with a day job and know many, many professional musicians. Almost none of them are solely playing music for money. Even members of the symphony in my city are teaching lessons. It’s true that it’s possible to live solely on money made from playing music, but the fact of the matter is that salary tends to be relatively low, so people often feel the need to supplement with other sources of income. Music isn’t the only profession where this is true either. My husband is a camera operator at sporting events. He shoots maybe 25 games a year but that doesn’t provide nearly enough money to live on so he also has a full time job, as do most of the ops on the crews he works on.

      6. Cyndi*

        My parents are in their early 70s and have been professional creatives (a musician and a visual artist, respectively) their entire adult lives. They are both fantastic at what they do. Neither has ever been able to sustain themselves without at least a part-time day job, at any point in their lives, unless you count the few years’ window where my dad was performing for money but still in high school and living with his parents.

        I also went to art school (was an illustration major but worked in the theater department) and very few people I went to school with and am still in touch with managed to make a full-time living out of it, either. Consensus seems to be that it’s only achievable for a very small fraction, these days.

      8. Bleu*

        It’s not an aspersion to say that most artistic careers pay way less than the median STEM job. That doesn’t make them worse; clearly people love them so much that they’re willing to hold down a day job in order to do them, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a common fact of the universe that people who needed a job in order to do the arts are far more common than people who are able to make a full living off of it.

    3. Harper the Other One*

      I really like this wording! It doesn’t pussyfoot around the fact that your prior interactions with Jane were unpleasant, while also leaving room for the fact that the Jane THEY know may be different.

      But yes, OP, please do see if you can have a few therapy sessions to help you work through your newly discovered reaction to hearing about Jane. If it helps, think of it as reminding yourself that you deserve to be happy, and therapy is an investment in that.

    4. ferrina*

      Seconding all of this. This is a great script- I think this would be the only thing that can salvage the situation. Hopefully the others in the play understand and can limit the mention of Jane, but if they start exacerbating things, you know you did all you could and quit the play.

  12. Catagorical*

    Person mentions bully.
    Point away and say “squirrel!” loudly and vanish by the time they look back at you.

    Probably can’t actually do that, but distract yourself for a moment imagining it, then use a rehearsed, grey rock response?

    1. ThatOtherClare*

      I once successfully used ‘Oh hey look! A flying subject change!’, but it’s a ‘know your audience’ line. I don’t remember exactly what my friend said, but I have a vague memory that he laughed (in a kind way) and said something about the weather we’d been having lately, then properly changed the topic.

  13. Need To Know*

    LW#1: “The castmate began singing her praises, and others joined in.” Ugh!

    I wonder who she is bullying now with the other castmates going along without question because she is just so wonderful.

    She sounds a bit like Amy Dunne in “Gone Girl”.

    1. I wear my sunglasses at night*

      It’s entirely possibly that:
      1) she was awful to LW back in the day
      2) she is not being awful to anyone now (and hasn’t been awful to anyone in a long time)

      Either way, the LW can only be responsible for her own actions and reactions. So while it is frustrating to have to go back to therapy “because of Jane” it’s also a much more sustainable way of living than “LW is physically and mentally distressed whenever in Jane’s presence” or “LW leaves this job because of Jane who may not even know LW is there”

      Tarring and feathering Jane at this point doesn’t actually help LW with her mental or physical distress

      1. Jackalope*

        There are plenty of young bullies who stay jerks, but there are also plenty of them who grow up and move on, or regret their past actions and try to become better. This doesn’t need to change the LW’s stance on Jane – it’s totally understandable if she never wants to see or talk to her ever again – but it’s entirely possible that Jane has just… become a better person. Which again doesn’t need to affect LW ‘s actions, but it’s possible that the other people do legit just like her.

        1. Lauren19*

          Yeah, is it worth considering talking to Jane? Giving her the benefit of the doubt that terrible person she was in high school was a symptom of something else she was going through, and that all these people who rave about her now know the mature, well-adjusted adult Jane? Sounds like this is something you’d have to discuss and prepare for (if you decide to do it) in therapy, but wouldn’t that be the sweetest outcome? Get some closure – maybe even an apology! – and be able to thrive in this new community without these constant triggers?

      2. Thespian*

        I have no idea what she’s like today since we haven’t spoken in years. I honestly wish her the best though. I wasn’t a great person in high school (I definitely wasn’t a bully, but I was very self-centered). I know I’ve changed immensely since then, so maybe she has too.

        1. Aggretsuko*

          I think my suggestion to you would be to say “we weren’t friends in high school” and leave it at that.

          I hope for your sake she has changed.

        2. Be Free*

          I was bullied throughout school and I think a part of that was that I was in turn a bully towards a few kids – I’m sure it made me feel like I had a small bit of power while feeling utterly powerless. I also have terrible memory of most of my childhood, like I barely remember anyone I went to school with.

          Not saying this is Jane, maybe she was a classic bully who definitely just enjoyed bullying you and is still a terrible person at her core.

          A lot of therapy and life experience of adults generally being normal people who aren’t nasty sociopaths the way that kids are has helped. But it’s also helped to realize I am an adult with power now. 99% of the time I have to ability to just leave a situation, even if it’s a paid job. I don’t have to live in a painful situation whether it’s five minutes or five years.

          If a volunteer thing is literally making you sick, I’m wondering if you would benefit from therapy to maybe get you to the same place? If something is unpleasant for any reason, especially if it is an unpaid hobby that should be fun, you could just not do it and feel the better for it. But also that Jane might be totally unrecognizable to you if you met her and the Jane that hurt you may not even exist anymore.

  14. bamcheeks*

    LW1, I would go straight to a therapist. You don’t sound like you’re able to make decisions about how to handle this at the moment: it’s really hard to figure out calm responses, or how to set boundaries, or even bigger decisions like whether you can continue with this play in this city when your whole body is just screaming no. A therapist can hopefully create a safe enough space for you to think clearly about your priorities, what’s in your control, and let you practise calm responses if that’s helpful. They might also be able to suggest therapies to address the trauma and physical response.

    This is really, really hard, and unfortunately there probably aren’t any easy answers. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who can help you figure it out and get to a place of safety and peace.

    Good luck.

  15. Nodramalama*

    LW1 that sucks, I’m sorry! In addition to what Alison and others have suggested, could you say something even more generic that doesn’t mention your bully at all, like “oh I don’t really enjoy revisiting high school”

  16. PhilG*

    #4: I started with a new team about 3 years ago. 1:1’s were every fortnight whilst full team meetings were monthly as well as ad hock as needed. Recently we decided as a team that we were past that phase and have scaled back the formal 1:1 to monthly and the scheduled team meetings to every other month. Additionally, our manager has started an open office zoom for 30 minutes weekly, if anything comes up in between regular meetings. (E.g. my wife found out that she needs a surgical procedure recently. I was able to pop in during the open office session, informed my manager, she was able to adjust the schedule on the spot).

  17. 2cents*

    LW3 – adding on to Alison’s response, do you know if there are any others in a similar position that they can’t afford to go? A group response might be what they need to realize that their request is ludicrous.

  18. Friday Hopeful*

    LW#1 Maybe I’m reading between the lines but I can’t help but think this woman is STILL a bully. The reason is because “everyone keeps talking about her.” I feel like if she had the talent to manipulate that many people in high school (a teacher!) that she is equally the “mean girl” now too. One need only to remember their high school days to know that those type of people had a lot of “admirers” because they were afraid to be outcast. (Have you seen the movie Mean Girls?) I think if you take Alison’s advice about saying something but not necessarily revealing all of it) you might end up with a few people who eventually decide they don’t need to be in this person’s “court.” Good luck!

    1. Ellie*

      Honestly I’ve seen both scenarios play out. I know a terrible person who is extremely charismatic. I also know a wonderful person who is extremely charismatic. Sometimes being charismatic and manipulative go together, but sometimes they don’t. In OP’s case, she knows something more about this person, she knows they were a bully in high school, and they’re at least somewhat charismatic now. That doesn’t bode well.

      In my case, one of the tells of whether they’ve changed or not is to notice how many of those people singing their praises know that person well, and for how long. Manipulative people, as adults anyway, tend to shed people fairly often, or people wake up to them, and disappear on their own. If the people who are praising OP’s bully have known them well, and for a long time, then maybe they have changed? Unless this person has a lot of power, adults don’t tend to hang around and placate bullies the same way kids and teenagers do.

  19. Morning Reader*

    I’m curious about #3; in what context are the employees “partners?” I’ve only heard of this employment arrangement for law firms, not start-ups. I recall friends who “made partner” incurring lots of expenses, having to buy in to the partnership and then incurring a share of operating expenses ever after. It only makes economic sense if the “firm” is making money. And those partners are no longer employees but owners.
    For a start-up, it sounds like some kind of a scam. Most of the “employees” are “partners?” Do the employees have to pay to work, in hopes of sharing profits some day? I’ve never heard of this arrangement. Or is it just a description of the feeling the founders want to convey, sort of like “we’re all family here” variation expressed as “we’re all partners here.” I’ve heard of employees receiving stock as part of their compensation package but that is not described as partnership.
    But if they are really making you buy in to have a job, that sounds questionable. What is going on with this business arrangement?

    1. Ferret*

      This is pretty normal for startups and tends to happen vua share awards as part of compensation. It can sometimes be a vehicle for exploitation/underpayment as, especially in the tech scene they pressure people on the basis that the company is a unicorn and the shares will be worth millions in the future.

      On a saner level something similar is the case at my job – anyone over 2 years service and all managers or above are offered shares. In our case they are very limited non-voting shares so basically just mean we occasionally get a bonus but ownership can be a lot broader than the law business model.

    2. Disappointed Australien*

      Startup cult(ure) is its own whole thing and there’s a range from outright grifters to deluded optimists to actual businesspeople.

      It’s really common in software/tech startups. People get paid the minimum needed to live plus shares in the company, or share options if the founders are particularly stingy. To make money working for a startup you really have to have no real financial obligations and be able to gamble a couple of years income against the possibility of being rich(er). There two upsides: being retirement rich, and being ‘I worked at now-famous company’ as well as comfortably rich.

      People working as support staff really need to treat any ownership stake as a nice to have and focus on getting paid, getting skills/experience then getting out. 90% of startups go bust without making money, and the ownership stake isn’t going to pay the rent any time soon.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        Just want to say that I know someone who just started at a start-up, and the salary is comfortable. The company needed to attract experienced engineers with other options, and the pay etc reflects that.

        I think this is shading into “You can tell I am a serious artist because I am super flaky”–embodying the negative stereotype of a startup with insane hours and low pay doesn’t mean the startup actually has a good business plan.

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yeah, OP’s startup seems to be in the grifters/deluded optimist range, and closer to the grifter side of the scale. (OP commented with more details in a different thread and it does seem like this place ain’t all that great.)

    3. Ellis Bell*

      The UK department store John Lewis runs their business as employee owned. So it’s a big department store, there’s one in every UK city, and it is fully owned by its staff, who receive a share in the profits. I used to know someone who worked for them and she considered it a job for life – she was very happy with the set up. I don’t know entirely how it works but whenever they are in the news, the ‘partners’ have either had a big profits windfall or JL are considering changing the business model, which is usually not popular idea and is soon scotched. I’m pretty sure they don’t make the ‘partners’ pay basic business expenses or make them financially responsible for anything. I believe they get a stake in some of the decision making. JL has a how-to page on its website for businesses interested in this model.

      1. Ferret*

        The only news stories I’ve seen recently about John Lewis have been that they were cutting/scrapping the bonus because of their massive recent losses. Albeit that isn’t the fault of the business model but it isn’t a guarantee of anything.

        I actually used to work for an engineering company that operated in the same way (MottMacDonald) and post 2008 they notably had a lot less redundancies than any of their competitors

        1. londonedit*

          They’ve recently made a big deal about bringing back their ‘never knowingly undersold’ promise – it was an even bigger deal when they scrapped it a few years ago. Now apparently they’ve developed the tech to constantly monitor prices to make sure no-one’s undercutting them (and I presume it’s also going to work as it always has, where if a customer finds the same item for sale cheaper, JL will match the price).

          JL also owns the Waitrose supermarket chain, and staff at Waitrose are also partners in the John Lewis Partnership.

      2. bamcheeks*

        there’s one in every UK city

        Not any more there isn’t! Sheffield’s shut a few years ago: they’re still mad at Leeds about it because it was the same time ours opened.

  20. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    #3 They sound a bunch of dodgy cowboys. What on earth are they thinking? :-0

    “a majority of employees were offered partnership”.
    Even if this includes the OP, this shouldn’t get around their obligations to pay people for work or to pay their business travel expenses in full.

    I’d politely but firmly refuse to attend, unless you think they could actually fire you for this.
    “So sorry. I’d love to go if all expenses are covered and I don’t have to use PTO, but otherwise I can’t afford this. “

  21. FashionablyEvil*

    #2–it can feel weird to tell someone their communication isn’t good, but honestly lots of people struggle with it! Look up SBAR techniques (situation, background, assessment, recommendation)—it’s a formal way of structuring communication that can make things a lot clearer.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      It is not uncommon! A safe bet is that most people communicate at a middle-school level, so I don’t think it’s abnormal to give a framework for how to structure communication if needed. Also if anyone has ever had a job where it feels like you CANNOT give your boss what they’re looking for, imagine how amazing it would be to get a rubric or fill-in-the-blank format of exactly how to succeed! OP you’d be doing this young person a really big favor to address this

  22. A Book about Metals*

    I don’t have any specific advice for #1 other than therapy – mainly because if the bully is so active in the community that everyone knows her, this is going to come up again. If LW wants to remain engaged in theater there I think she’s going to have to find a way to deal

    1. Ms. Elaneous*

      well if LW 1 wants to be active in That Particular Community theatre, tis true. I don’t OP’s reasons for living in her particular town, or the geography involved: is it in the middle of Montana or near Chicago, or on the eastern seaboard.
      There always seem to be unlimited numbers of theatres who want to ‘hire’
      actors who will work for free. Perhaps this theatre is not the only choice.

      But yeah , OP, don’t let fear push you away.

  23. Kris*

    I think there is still such a stigma about being bullied! No one is suggesting that LW1 say “Jane can be kind of a bully” or “Jane was a bully in high school” but that’s an important fact about JANE! LW1 didn’t do anything wrong, but people are suggesting she tiptoe around what happened as though it’s somehow LW’s fault. :/

    LW1, it’s up to you how you want to handle this, but I do want to say you have just as much a right to be in this community as your bully does. I hope that Jane doesn’t take it away from you. I’m sorry you are going through this.

    1. bamcheeks*

      I don’t know if it’s exactly stigma, though I think that’s part of it, but a large part is also that it’s very hard to know what to do with the information “Adult who you know and like was a bully in high school”. When you hear something like that, it’s quite common to try and seek more information because you feel like you’re being asked to make some kind of moral judgment on Jane or take a side or something, and that would probably be a worse outcome for LW. Something vaguer or more measured is more likely to get the desired outcome of “stop talking about Jane”.

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Especially if your experience with Adult Jane ten or fifteen years later (or however long) is very different from someone else’s experience with Teen Jane. I wouldn’t be sure what you wanted me to do with such old info if my experience in the present was different enough that I was openly singing Jane’s praises to relative strangers.

        I always try to remember that my experience of a person is always going to be different from every other person’s experience, good or bad. We’ve seen a lot of letters on this site where people are treated poorly by their bosses while the bosses’ same level colleagues think they’re great, or someone knows their boss in the community and loves them, etc. Adult Jane may be wonderful to other people in the theatre community while also being someone capable of great awfulness to LW, and those two competing bits of info can live side by side.

        1. Colette*

          Yeah, one of the complicated facts of life is that people are not all good or all bad. People who do terrible things can also be very kind in other situations.

      2. Colette*

        It’s often a situation where the two people involved don’t see it the same way – one person sees it as joking around, the other feels bullied. And teenagers often don’t have the words/confidence to speak up, or the broader view of how their actions could be perceived.

        It’s also not really actionable for someone who is their colleague 15 years later. People can grow and change; it’s not a great stance to judge someone based on what a third party said they were like in high school. Everybody makes mistakes; everybody is sometimes a jerk.

        It’s reasonable for the OP to never want to have anything to do with Jane again; it’s less reasonable for the rest of society to shame her, assuming she is no longer bullying people.

          1. Colette*

            Maybe she was being deliberately cruel. Maybe she was intending to joke. Maybe she didn’t think about the OP much at all. I know the OP experienced it as bullying, but we have no information about how Jane experienced it (and neither does the OP.)

            But the OP’s current colleagues don’t know the impact it had on the OP, so they won’t have the information we have, just their existing view of Jane, who they seem to like.

          2. Boof*

            I think it’s really difficult because if there’s one phase of life I think people can change dramatically it’s teenager. It’s possible Jane eventually realized how effed up what they did was and sorely regret it, it’s possible they don’t but moved on to a different path, it’s possible they’re still just as awful as ever. LW doesn’t know and doesn’t want to know and that’s totally fair! But as others have said, it’s hard for new people to know what to do with that information. Something along the lines of “We did not get along in high school and I’d prefer not to talk about it” is a pretty clear directive (it was not good, space needed, done!). “Jane was a bully in high school” leaves a lot more open (ie, is this an ask to pick sides? Do they want to talk about it?) and on top of it unfortunately a lot of people have co-opted bully / toxic / words to things that aren’t really, so it makes it really confusing if you don’t know the parties well.
            I think it’s best to both communicate there’s a negative history there and keep it short with a clear desire to not get into it. That’s probably the most effective strategy for LW + perhaps therapy to help with the current panic response at the thought of Jane.

          3. Joana*

            That’s the thing, though. Even if Jane knew that OP reacted to it the way she did (which isn’t a guarantee) she still might have thought she was ‘just teasing’ or ‘just joking around’ and that it’s OP’s fault for ‘being so sensitive.’ There are legitimately people who met their high school bully years later, confronted them about the treatment, and were met with “What? I wasn’t a bully, we were just joking!” I’m not saying this is the case for OP and Jane, but there really are people with such low EQ and social awareness.

          4. bamcheeks*

            I think this conversation is a great example of what LW doesn’t need, and I didn’t mean to start it!

            We don’t have to speculate what Jane’s take on it was or why she might have behaved that way to LW! We can centre LW’s experience here.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I’m not so sure that it is stigma, I think it is wariness on the part of OP because of their relative social power. Think of the ‘rock star’ letter where the powerful well-known person had been the victim in high school, and the unknown newcomer had been the bully. In a situation like that, the victim feels more empowered to say flat out that the new person was previously a bully, and to expect social backing that what happened was not okay. In this situation, the powerful person in this circle is the bully, and I can understand that OP might not feel as confident that she can say anything to make her the persona non grata. I think if OP does hint at something happening in high school, they may feel more at ease keeping it low key and unremarkable: “Oh we didn’t get along” and I like Retired Vulcan’s phrasing of “She wasn’t very kind to me” or Alison’s “rough history” because it just expresses that OP is not up for fangirling over this person, without turning into a AITA vote.

    3. I should really pick a name*

      This isn’t about stigma.
      This is about getting the best outcome for the LW.

      Jane was a bully in high school. It’s quite possible that Jane is no longer a bully.
      Jane appears to be well established in this theatre community, whereas the LW appears to be new to it (or has been away long enough to effectively be new). If it comes down to choosing between Jane and the LW, the community will probably pick Jane.

      If the LW’s immediate goal is just to get people to talk to her about Jane less, it’s not in their interest to get into just how badly they were treated by Jane.

      1. Dasein9 (he/him)*

        I agree. LW needs to turn down the social temperature on the bully while preserving her own standing the community as she cultivates relationships and friendships of her own.

        The best way to accomplish that is to turn the high school connection into a grey rock, something that isn’t interesting to others. (And hopefully, with time, it will also be less impactful to LW too!)

        A lot of folks are suggesting a change of subject when Jane comes up. What if LW changes the subject to ask something specifically about the person she’s talking to? People do enjoy talking about themselves, so this will probably be effective, and it has the effect of taking the spotlight off both Jane and LW.

      2. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Right, and it may even come off as OP trying to stir up drama – which it does NOT sound like is the goal, but part of being successful in a community like this is understanding how people around you are likely to react, rightly or wrongly.

        “We didn’t get along” is vague and evasive enough that it’s less likely to backfire on OP, and while it may pique curiosity it’s a lot easier to side step. Even if it gets back to Jane.

    4. Jennifer Strange*

      If I know Jane and my experience with her has been nothing by positive, and someone I’ve only just met says to me “She was a bully in high school” my reaction isn’t going to be “Oh, I’m completely wrong about Jane and need to change my opinion of her now!” Rightly or wrongly, Jane is a known entity to these folks, and one they have a positive view of. The LW bringing up their history with her isn’t going to help. That’s not to say what they went through wasn’t terrible or that they are in any way at fault for what happened, just that mentioning it isn’t going to get them the outcome they want.

    5. Irish Teacher.*

      I think that would be a bad idea, not because of a stigma about being bullied (although that does exist) but because Jane is really popular and the odds are that if the LW says Jane was a bully and Jane says she wasn’t, most of the people the LW works with are going to believe the person they all like so much. It’s not because of a stigma, but because it sounds like their experience of Jane is very different from the LW’s (perhaps because Jane has changed or perhaps because she is good at fooling people as many bullies are, who knows?). Either way, they have not seen a bullying side to Jane and a lot of people are resistant to information that goes against their lived experience.

      There is a real danger that if the LW were to say something like “Jane can be kind of a bully,” that people would assume the LW was lying and if Jane still is a bully and is fooling people, it is quite likely that she would claim the LW was making up lies because of being jealous of her and given how popular she is, it is very likely she would be believed.

      Especially as “bully” is a term that gets used as a sort of umbrella term. It sounds like what Jane did to the LW was on the extreme end (getting a member of staff involved!!) but given that people like Jane and are likely to be prejudiced in her favour, even if they do believe the LW and Jane has changed enough that she doesn’t convince them the LW is lying, they are still likely to imagine the…I don’t want to say “less serious” because all bullying is serious, but they are likely to imagine something like she teased the LW a bit to show off to her friends or laughed at the LW when she got a question wrong in class or that she was part of the “popular crowd” and the LW wanted to be part of it but they wouldn’t include her or that she and the LW were friend and had a falling out and she stopped talking to the LW. In which case, they might start trying to encourage the LW to “make it up with Jane; it was a long time ago.” And the last thing the LW wants is people encouraging her to “come and meet Jane and see how nice she is now. I’m sure she’s sorry for ‘teasing’ you and would like to make up.”

      I’d also say it would not really be accurate to say “Jane can be kind of a bully” because…the LW doesn’t know if she still can. It’s very possible, but it is also possible it is something she has grown past.

  24. kalli*

    LW1: actors have unions, unions get you access to services designed to help you. Call them, email them, go sit outside their office door until they open, but talk to them. You are not the first person who’s had to deal with someone you don’t like existing in the same industry; the union have therefore seen it before and can hook you up with resources and services who can give you far better advice and support than randos on the internet who mostly know office work.

      1. Thespian*

        Our community theatre definitely doesn’t. I believe this comment was made before I clarified that this was community theatre, not professional.

  25. ecnaseener*

    LW5, for what it’s worth, I don’t think “ongoing, they just couldn’t move as quickly” directly contradicts “unable to progress any further for now.” Before they can progress any further (ie initiate the next step with selected candidates) they have to get a variety of discrete tasks done by a variety of people (finishing up any remaining first-round interviews, deciding what the next step will entail, deciding who to move forward, etc). Those discrete tasks are ongoing, but are taking a while (as she hinted that they’re busy), hence for now they can’t progress to the next step in their hiring process.

    It was a clunky way for the recruiter to phrase it, but basically her first message meant “no news yet.”

  26. Hyaline*

    Re LW1: this may sound harsh so please know that I was also bullied in school and I understand how absolutely wretched it is. But I am reading this letter that you are a professional actor and this is your profession and this person is very involved locally in your profession. So—you cannot expect to avoid mention of this person forever. You cannot even expect to avoid running into this person forever. You cannot structure your professional life around the fact that a bully 10 years ago made your life miserable. This is not really a one off problem where you need a script to talk to your current cast mates. You need to find strategies to cope with the fact that this person is going to be in your life at least on the periphery if not sometimes a lot closer. And no, it’s not fair and it sucks! But if you want to keep working in your area, it may simply be the reality.

    1. Thespian*

      You’re absolutely right. She hasn’t been brought up since I wrote in, but I’m sure I’ll hear her name again and maybe even work with her. The initial shock has worn off and I feel more prepared now.

  27. NotBatman*

    LW2 – would it help to give him an example of what you’d like in his messages? I teach college, so this isn’t necessarily the same. But I used to get dozens of emails a week that consist of just “when’s the homework”, subject line “Class.” Then I started providing an example email, with an explanation that they’ll get an answer to their question faster if they ask it in specific detail, on the first day of every class.

    So, maybe saying something like “I’m happy to answer questions, but the more detailed your question, the easier time I’ll have helping you. Describe the situation and what you need in as much specific detail as possible to speed up the process of getting help.”

    1. Dasein9 (he/him)*

      This could even be an assignment for the direct report to work on for an hour or two a week, looking at videos and websites on business communication and clarity.

      Then, when the report improves, it’s occasion for praise during the annual review cycle. This is a business skill that the direct report needs to pick up and it should be treated like any other skill.

  28. Thespian*

    Thanks for answering my question! I’m LW 1 by the way. I was in a terrible head space when I wrote to you. Luckily, no one has mentioned her since then. I have a strong support network that I was able to talk to, and they helped me come back to Earth a bit. My best friend is someone I went to high school with, and he was able to assure me that I wasn’t crazy; the bully really was that awful. He (my friend) said he was proud of me for getting back into theatre (it’s community theatre, so not paid/contracted).

    I’ve also become a really valuable part of the production. I stepped in because an old friend said they needed more people. Everyone has been so kind and appreciative, and I’ve been able to bond with the cast and creative team. It also feels great to be on stage again.

    Thank you to all the commenters for your support. I’m going to schedule an appointment with my therapist to talk about this and other things that have been going on in my life.

    1. Lisa*

      Thank you for popping in here to comment! I can imagine it was a horrible shock out of nowhere and I’m glad you’re feeling supported by Team You and are in a better headspace to handle it.

    2. Aggretsuko*

      I hope you’re able to avoid her or at least not be in the same shows with her. I wish you all the luck in that.

    3. HiddenT*

      Happy to hear this. I’m part of my local community theater scene and there can be a lot of offstage drama, but if it does come up again (or if you’re put in a situation where you end up at an audition with her or might be cast in a show with her) I would take the advice of posters elsewhere in the comments and just be matter-of-fact about your past relationship with her (without giving too much detail). Most directors and others will be able to read between the lines of “we went to HS together but weren’t close” as a reason for not wanting to work with her meaning “there’s bad blood and I’d rather not risk it coming up and hurting the show” and will appreciate you letting them know before it potentially becomes an issue (just like in any other job setting).

      And remember, if any well-meaning but clueless person tries to suggest that she’s changed/you’re holding a grudge/you should forgive her for your own sake, you can always tell them “I’m doing my own work on this and don’t need advice, thanks”.

      It’s also entirely possible you might end up finding that she’s less universally-loved than this first experience seems to suggest, a lot of “popular” people in theater scenes have issues that may or may not be widely known (although as with anything, you should be careful about believing detractors who may simply be malicious gossips or have sour grapes).

  29. Guest*

    LW1, I’m an actress and I feel your pain. I once did a show with an actor who bullied me in front of the cast and crew at every rehearsal and before and after every show. The difference was that he was almost universally hated; he actually stopped getting cast because he was so abusive to women. When people bring up Jane again, you might say “we’re not friends, can we please change the subject?” It sounds like this is a paid gig, in which case you probably have a contract you don’t want to break. Agree with Alison WRT setting up some therapy sessions.

  30. Wine not Whine*

    LW4, it’s entirely possible that your check-ins will also welcome the reduced cadence of meetings.
    As long as you’re pleasant and factual, there shouldn’t be any sense of “you just don’t want to meet with me.” In fact, reducing check-in frequency can come across as an expression of confidence – you’re trusting them to be able to stay on top of things with less direct supervision.
    Present it to them as being in the interest of using everyone’s time more wisely, set up a plan for the new cadence, and remind them of how best to contact you between scheduled meetings.
    If an individual is concerned or objects to the reduction, this is a signal for you to investigate further – what’s driving their concern? Is there a (perceived or actual) communication gap, a support issue that can be resolved? Or is the individual expressing a lack of personal confidence in their role? These are things that can be masked or somewhat mollified by frequent meetings, but become visible when that masking decreases.

    1. reputationcoded*

      Seconding this – they may also welcome the reduced meeting burden. I’ve also changed 1:1s to monthly scheduled group calls if there are overlapping work interests, so we can have more of an interdisciplinary brainstorm rather than sharing work product progress. I’m sure the efficacy of those meetings depends on your needs, but would there be any benefit to combining meetings and meeting less often?

      1. Wine not Whine*

        Also, one of my managers leaves the time booked each week, but confirms whether we actually need to meet (“hey, got anything we need to discuss?”) and clears the individual appointment if not. This keeps the access open – I can plan to bring things up that aren’t time-sensitive enough to interrupt the daily flow – without wasting time for either of us.

  31. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

    LW2 – this can be a challenging thing to coach people on; I empathize as there’s someone on my team who is very similar – great at her job but every conversation takes 3x longer with her. Definitely the specifics (like “please use names”) are important, but I’d also expect to have to give lots of repeated feedback on this over a sustained period of time before it sinks in. And there may be a limit on how skilled of a communicator he will be.

    One thing that’s helped with my team member – I insist on having a written communication (either a detailed email or a memo) for any bigger/higher stakes decisions, in advance of a conversation about it. That saves me from using up one entire meeting just to understand what’s going on before we can discuss what to do about it. Teams also seems especially bad for weak communicators since it’s more stream-of-consciousness; I’ve imposed restrictions on what this team member can use Teams for. If I insist on things being in email she seems to be better at re-reading before sending and catching her clarity issues.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Mode of communication can be such a huge tool in these situations. We set up clear expectations around this in my newest team when I joined – both to learn each other’s preferences, and to establish norms. Quick thoughts and questions can be an IM, if that conversation evolves it might become a meeting. Emails for longer thoughts and conversations that could benefit from clear documentation. Set meetings with agendas and time limits.

      This isn’t so strict as to be difficult to manage, or to block out social conversation and team building, but it puts each type of communication in the appropriate category, which also makes it easier to isolate where people need coaching. Do they need to be better prepared for meetings so they can practice speaking clearly and effectively? Are their emails long tomes and the need to practice concise writing? Are their stream of consciousness IMs setting everyone on edge because of the constant notifications? It can be helpful to see how habits and patterns show up in different media.

  32. HonorBox*

    OP3 – I’m not sure exactly what the term “partner” means in this context, but I think that if there’s an offsite event that the business is highly encouraging people to attend, either the business pays the expenses and recognizes that as time working OR there is absolutely zero penalty for not attending.

    Asking an employee to pay $600 out of pocket and take PTO for a work function is bananas. Like piles and stack of bananas. Because you’ve mentioned not being able to afford it, I’m assuming you’re not in a position to meet the salary/overtime threshold, too. So in that case, I think it is worth pointing out that if you’re traveling on a day you’d regularly be working, you need to be paid for that. And if there’s work happening during the weekend, you need to be paid for that as well. Tell them that if they are going to look sideways if people aren’t attending, they also need to cover the cost of the hotel stay. Only giving 14% of the total cost as reimbursement makes it very difficult for those who earn less to afford to go, and if they want people there, those employees or “partners” shouldn’t be expected to pay to work.

  33. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    LW4: Now is a good time to examine all of these 1-1s critically using the “This meeting could have been an email” standard. Or a Slack. Or a shared status document, or a management tool of some kind.

    Now, maybe some people are bad communicators using written words. In which case you have to bite the bullet. But I find asynchronous communications to be much more efficient for both parties: stuff is written down, so it forces people to get their nuances and assumptions out in the open. And each of you can process things at your own speed.

    1. Guacamole Bob*

      I agree that you don’t need incessant one-on-ones in many cases, but in my large, complicated organization it has been very helpful to set aside regular check-in time with some of my peers on other teams even when there are no pressing items. We often end up syncing up on something important just in catching up on what each team is working on, and the overall working relationship is stronger. Maintaining that kind of relationship and communication is part of my job as the director of my team.

      Is it possible for these meetings to take over? Absolutely. But only interacting by email may get the immediate task handled but fail to address longer-term issues.

  34. Joana*

    OP1 is an interesting look from the other side of a situation similar to a letter and update a while back, the one about a woman who bullied a girl in high school and then was trying to break into the same niche industry. The OP may very well have been even better at the job than the woman she bullied, but she never got the chance because the woman told her bosses about her experience and they chose to exclude her from consideration.

    It tells me two things: one is that if they like you enough, the stigma against bullying and “holding grudges” from that long ago can be bypassed, and two, that the first person to “talk” or that people know tends to be the favored one, no matter what the situation actually is.

    That said, I agree with everyone else that you really need to speak up about this somehow, OP1. It’s affecting your health and likely your performance in the play. I have personal experience in multiple instances where I had a friend or acquaintance mutually with someone or multiple people, and we were all feeling strange about them but no one spoke up about it or even praised them to each other because we thought we were the only one who felt like that.

    I’m not saying that Jane hasn’t changed. It’s entirely possible she has! But it’s also entirely possible that she’s still a bit of a suspect person and OP mentioning at least the basics of her experience will be met with “You know what, I kind of felt weird when Jane did (thing) but didn’t want to make a big deal out of it.” And just like that, OP has an understanding from their castmates.

    1. Colette*

      I think there’s a lot of risk to the OP for saying Jane bullied her. “We didn’t get along” or “we had a bad history in high school” are fine; “Jane bullied me” is less likely to be effective. It asks people to judge what they know of Jane vs. what they know of the OP – and they’ve known Jane longer. Very few people are the same at 30 as they were at 16. Maybe she’s still mean to people, maybe she’s not, maybeshe is but the people the OP knows haven’t seen it.

      1. Joana*

        I never said to exactly say “She bullied me” but you have to admit that even saying “We didn’t get along” is probably going to come off as that to at least some people. No matter what OP says or how she says it, there’s a “risk” of people thinking that she’s just being overly-sensitive. And perhaps in a way she is, but it’s also her prerogative. Though as someone else pointed out, if this is indeed what OP hopes to be her career, simply avoiding the former bully and asking people to not talk about her is only going to take her so far. Unless by some miracle coincidence, Jane just up and moves out of town herself.

        1. Colette*

          You suggested “OP mentioning at least the basics of her experience”, which I think is likely to make the situation worse, given the dynamics (they know Jane, do not know the OP)

          1. Joana*

            Even just saying “We didn’t get along that well” is considered the basics of the experience. It’s the very, very basics, but it’s still saying something about it. And as I said, people are prone to taking their own interpretation of things if you give them even a sliver of vagueness, so no matter what OP says, it isn’t out of the realm of possibility someone is going to take it as one of them bullied the other. If OP is in a situation where they end up having to strike down conversation about Jane (which it sounds like may not end up being the case, see the posts from Thespian) she does need to realize that whatever she says, she’s not going to be in full control of how people react to it.

    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Was this….that letter? The one where there seemed to be a lot of lack of self awareness over the harm incurred, and that everything was Rockstar’s fault, including being blackballed because the LW misplaced her fecal matter while drunk and screamed at Rockstar at a restaurant?

        1. Joana*

          Yup, there definitely was. The basis is very similar, though. Part of me hopes that Jane did become a better person and OP manages to work things out and continue on the path she wishes for herself, but a very small part of me is expecting to see that level of drama again.

      2. Hlao-roo*

        For anyone who’s curious, the letter Joana and ScruffyInternHerder are referring to is “I didn’t get a job because I was a bully in high school” from April 25, 2017 (linked in the “you may also like” section). The letter writer was pretty active in the comments section, as both “OP” and “kfox (op)” and later sent in an update.

        1. ScruffyInternHerder*

          And apparently its THAT apparent that its that letter, because I didn’t even note that it was linked under the “you might like” section!

          I feel like there was a re-run maybe? Or maybe an update to that last update? Or I have an overactive imagination?

  35. TinkerTailorSolderDye*

    LW1, for your own mental health, please don’t leave those two big options off the table. I did, and I’ve run from my bullies for years before regaining the courage to make it clear that I do not care anymore, no matter how much they hurt me. One was even temporarily a cousin, and still likes to needle me. I can stand up now and tell them to f*** off, but at the end of the day, there’s nothing more I can do to them to make them pay.

  36. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    1. I’ve been in your shoes and I’m so sorry. School years aren’t supposed to be a time where you’re fearing for your life or trying to end it.

    ‘Let’s just say there’s reasons I can be professional with X but never friends with them’. Might work as a conversation ender.

    As for your mental health I have a few suggestions, which I say as NOT a medical professional but someone with decades of mental therapy.

    1. If you cannot leave a situation then imagine like you’re doing a documentary on an alien environment. It’s a bit depersonalising but can be like a Star Trek deflector shield keeping you safe from the most harmful rays.

    2. Imagine a sheet of clear glass between you and them. This can lead to dissociation so be very careful. It’s one I use a lot when getting PTSD flashbacks. It’s like I’m there, but behind really good radiation-proof screens. Nothing can get me. I’m not really there.

    I hope you can get away though. In my experience continued exposure to something triggering should only be done under supervision.

    1. Tiny Soprano*

      Seconding your suggestion 1, Keymaster. I’ve found it extremely useful for mean, incompetent conductors with Bonynge fixations, so I’m sure it would work on bullies too.

      I pretend I’m secretly just there to do a psychology case study on them, and suddenly I have my internal zen back. An added bonus is it makes you seem cool and unflappable on the outside, so they’re also less likely to want to mess with you. One of these guys won’t even look at me since I’ve taken this approach, like he’s frightened. It’s great.

  37. mbs001*

    It would be great if LW1 could call the bully out face to face. If you have to encounter her, go up to her and ask if she remembers you and say you hope she’s changed because she was quite a bully back in the day. Don’t mince words. You should be able to tell from her response whether or not she’s changed her stripes.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I wouldn’t recommend this. Maybe if the moment comes up, or they to work with them directly a lot, or some other version of clearing the air – but if they just want to coexist in the same community, this could create more issues for the OP. Jane seems well liked and this kind of confrontation is likely to create more conversation around Jane and add whispering about the OP to those conversations, which seems like the opposite outcome to what they’re looking for.

    2. Jennifer Strange*

      That would most likely end up with the LW looking like the aggressor. Keep in mind, these folks don’t have the full context, and all they know is that their experiences with Jane have been positive.

  38. Thespian*

    LW here. I tried posting a little update earlier, but I’m not seeing it, so I’ll try again.

    I was in a really bad head space when I wrote in. There’s a lot going on in my life right now, and that exacerbated the issue. I’m happy to say I’m doing much better now. No one has mentioned the bully since my letter. I have a strong support network, and they were able to bring me back down to Earth a bit.

    I’ve also become a valuable member of the production (it’s community theatre, by the way). I joined later in the process because an old friend posted on social media that they needed more people. Everyone has been so nice and appreciative, and I’ve been able to bond with the cast and creative team. It also feels great to be back on stage again. The role is small, but it’s a fun challenge.

    Thank you for answering my question and thank you to the commenters for your support.

    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      I am so, so, SO happy to have an instant update Thespian, and so very happy that you’re in a better spot!

      Break a leg during performance season :)

    3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      I’m glad things are going better, LW! It sounds like a tough situation. Do you think there could be any value in trying to talk to Jane privately and clear the air? Some people who were bullies in high school still suck as adults. Some of them grow up and stop being jerks. Obviously, I don’t know which one Jane is.

      Perhaps it would be helpful for your healing to be able to say to Jane that she harmed you in school and it sucked. This is a moment you could take to stand up for yourself. She might even apologize. Just something to consider.

  39. Parenthesis Guy*

    LW #2: Is the language that you’re using at work this employees’ native language? If so, this could be the reason for poor communication and it’s something that may only get better as your employee becomes more familiar with the language.

    If not, it’s hard to improve communication for informal messages, but you can ask that your employee follow a template for when they want to send you a message about a topic. And then provide a template that will give you the info you need to understand the situation.

  40. Koala Tea*

    LW#2, my partner and I call this “the pronoun game”. We get really excited to explain something and find ourselves using “they”, “it”, “that”, etc… It helps our communication to call it out in a gamification manner. “Hey, you’re playing the pronoun game, can you help me out with some descriptors please so I can follow along better”

  41. Donkey Option*

    Wow, letter #3 is really not helping my perception that about 90% of “startups” are just scams. They’re either trying to get rich on the backs of their employees or they’re trying to get rich on the backs of deluded investors (and also the backs of their underpaid employees.) This whole thing of giving people “partnerships” which really mean nothing and when they finally sell or go under, the starters make it out unscathed to start another scam while the employees are just left out to dry. As an co-owner of a small business, these startup starters are just the worst.

    1. A Book about Metals*

      I’ve worked at startups for 25 years, this is not common at all. I’ve never heard of: 1) Making employees “partners” or 2) Making them pay out of pocket for a work event

      So just saying whatever is going on at lw3’s place is not indicative of startups overall. (They have plenty of other issues!)

      1. Pizza Rat*

        I interviewed once at a place that tried to sell this model too me. Besides my work, I was expected to do unpaid networking and marketing and conferences for at least six months, probably a year before I could become a partner. It’s only happened once, though.

    2. pally*

      That’s why, if one seeks employment at a start-up, it is so important to determine what the business plan looks like.

      If the goal is to be bought by a larger entity, then yeah, there’s no telling how much work will be piled on, without adequate resources to get everything done. Few additional hires will be made as expenses must be kept to a minimum to attract buyers. The goal is for the owners to make a killing when the business is sold.

      If the goal is to make a viable business for the long-term, there will be times when the work piles up, followed by the bringing in of adequate resources and additional personnel to remedy this. Employee compensation should also increase to reward the work.

  42. JSN*

    LW1, I don’t have any advice but I just want to offer you virtual hugs (if you would like them). I was also bullied relentlessly in high school and it had the same effects on me as it did you. And it’s so frustrating when the bully is now popular and well liked as an adult, why can’t anyone else see them for who they truly are?! And I will echo other comments about not getting into much detail, just say you and her had differences in high school and you don’t really want to talk about her. If they want to know so badly, they can go ask her. Let her be the one to explain what type of person she was. In this case, taking the high road may be a better move for you professionally. Just stay strong OP, don’t let her open old wounds or keep you from your career.

  43. Gudrid the Well Traveled*

    OP 1: here’s some alternative fiction that might help. Former bully is still a terrible person but has strong influence in your theater circle and people are singing her praises to be safe in case you’re friends. I am not a theater person but I volunteered with a local theater company. The founder was … dynamic and very talented but had a reputation in the company and the surrounding community as being difficult and mercurial. One time I inadvertently disagreed with her in a meeting and, no kidding, the whole table gasped.

    1. Gudrid the Well Traveled*

      Continued…I sort of knew the director’s reputation before I volunteered, but it was a while before I really understood the extent of it. And they were very involved with the running of the theater. Your person seems to be more in the background for your group, so maybe you won’t have much if any interaction with her.

      But also, quitting is an option. It’s not what you want, and it sounds like it would have strong, negative consequences, but you are actively choosing not to quit right now and you can at some point choose to quit. You can also take to your bed for a month or invite your former bully to lunch. These are so unappealing that you immediately rule them out, but they’re available choices. I believe there’s power in recognizing all your options as options. Then doing what felt like the only thing you can do becomes an intentional choice and you will feel more in control of the situation and your actions. You’re not helplessly being battered about by a storm, you’re plotting the best course through it.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        I had to put up with bullying in school and couldn’t get away from it. I had to put up with bullying at work and couldn’t get away from it (most of the time). You do NOT have to put up with bullying in a volunteer job, which is what theater is. You can choose to leave. It would suck if you had to, but it might be worth it.

        After all the years I had to put up with bullying and could not escape, I think I’m better off just leaving, especially if it’s recreational stuff and not my livelihood. I really hope Jane isn’t like that any more for OP’s sake, but I wouldn’t rule out quitting in the future if she has to. It sounds like Jane’s not in OP’s current show so she’s safe for now, at least.

  44. HSE Compliance*

    LW2 – I have had to coach employees through including necessary context without word-vomiting before. Most of them have responded very well to a direct conversation *with examples both ways*.

    IE – when you sent a message previously that “the thing is broken” with no other context, it is very difficult to help as there is no way to understand what the problem is. I can’t move forward unless you provide context. Context includes using enough language to properly describe and/or including screenshots. So, when you messaged “the thing is broken”, what I think you meant to convey was “the reporting software is giving me an error saying I do not have access to the location I need to submit a report for”. You could also take a screenshot and send it to me. If you’re not sure what context to include, think about when you are trying to buy a coffee at the cafe. If you walk up to the counter and just say “drink”, you’re going to be there a while answering questions because that request is so vague. But if you walk up and ask for a “small latte with a shot of hazelnut syrup”, you’re going to get your drink order in a lot faster.

    For a couple people, I have had to write out very exact templates for them to use going forward – and then *held them to* using that template.

    There was one employee that could not figure any of this out and was eventually let go, as it was part of a much larger series of performance issues with being able to follow directions and standard procedures. The really important part is that you are communicating that the employee needs to communicate more effectively. Sometimes that means that you have to be more direct than you are comfortable with…. but it’s a disservice to the employee to allow it to go gently for too long.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I definitely used the template thing in the past as someone who was on the receiving end of technical support requests. They’d have questions like “What were you trying to do when the Incident happened? What were you hoping would happen when you were completing the action? What ended up happening? Were there any error message on screen? If yes, what did they say?” It felt like overkill, but getting non-technical folks to explain their problems can often be like pulling teeth because they get so frustrated and, I’d wager, probably at least slightly embarrassed that they can’t articulate what the issue is.

      1. HSE Compliance*

        My templates were specifically for incident escalation up to the management team (generally an injury). I had a tech who would literally just email out “injury” and no context, and one that wrote novellas for every incident. Half the time none of them would escalate appropriately either. Templates solved a *lot* of the stress. A flowchart of when to send what to who also helped.

        It 100000% felt like overkill, and to be honest was partially an issue because people were being held accountable for things and didn’t like it, but enforcing the requirement to follow the right steps and communicate appropriately was a lot easier with documented steps + examples. I did have one tech that felt the entire thing was condescending and (I quote) “dumb as all hell”, but that particular tech felt that any sort of not-glowing feedback was a personal attack.

  45. Not Mindy*

    LW4
    I’m an individual contributor who has these kinds of meetings set up with a few different people. What has worked for us (or at least I haven’t heard that it doesn’t work!) is having these meetings tentatively accepted on our calendars. The morning of the meeting one of us will invariably email the other to either say that we have something we’d like to discuss (usually me saying that) or that we have too much going on so we’re not going to make it (usually the other person saying that).
    Having the meetings on our calendar that way discourages others from scheduling something else at the same time, but also lets others know to reach out if it’s hard to find a different meeting time. It’s kind of a win, win, win. We have a structure in place to meet if necessary, it’s easy to cancel if it’s not necessary, and when we do cancel we’re more likely to have focus time.

  46. Overthinking It*

    I think you are overlooking the fact that this is a “partners trip” so LW is invited as a stockholder, rather than as a employee. The lines are blurry, if every employee is a partner, but there is a distinction. Travel and accommodation are not usually paid for stockholders meetings (though food and entertainment maybe, and may sometimes be rather lavish. And stockholders meetings are entirely optional. (As opposed to board meetings, which one presumably committed to when agreeing to sit on the board. There you would be expected to make an e case if you cannot attend.) Declining to take advantage of the invitation shouldn’t affect LWs employment. (Unless they’ve assigned her chores to do at the event, which would return it to her attention ding as an employee, and then the should pay.)

  48. Manic Pixie HR Girl*

    LW1/Thespian – I am so glad you’re in a better space!

    Wanted to comment that I had a similar scenario my senior year of high school – right down to enlistment of (at least one) faculty member(s) in the nonsense. In my case, I had a strong support system at the time and also had a lot of people on my side in the issue who stood up for me in the moment. It was not nearly as pervasive or long lasting as what it sounds like happened to you, so that did help in my being able to move past it post high school.

    What I understand now: for reasons I won’t get into, this individual was a deeply unhappy person who, I hope, has found happiness, peace, and authenticity in their life as an adult that they did not have as a teenager. I have no desire even now to reconnect or cross paths with this individual years and years later, but knowing that this was a symptom of their own insecurities and issues did help me. (And I also am sure they remember this very differently than I do. So be it. I don’t really care, because my truth and my experience is unchanged.)

    Anyway – this may not be relevant, but I tend to think that people, especially teens, typically are unkind in these ways because of their own internal struggles.

    Funny enough – I am far less forgiving of the faculty member who stoked the flames than I ever was of my classmate. There is a special place in hell for those kinds of educators.

    1. Thespian*

      I feel the same way about her- I’m sure she was dealing with her own insecurities and I’m angrier at the faculty member who got involved. She actually ended up leaving after my first year at the school, and it might be because of the hell my parents rose.

    2. bamcheeks*

      Funny enough – I am far less forgiving of the faculty member who stoked the flames than I ever was of my classmate

      That seems very reasonable to me! The bar for professional educators in positions of authority should be hundreds of miles higher than it is for random 15yos whose coping skills are limited to making other people miserable.

      1. Addison DeWitt*

        I didn’t have a terrible high school experience by any means, but there were plenty of people I have no interest in ever seeing or speaking to again. When they started reappearing in my life in the form of Facebook friend requests, I simply didn’t respond. People often say “a wedding invite is not a summons,” and a Facebook request is even less of one.

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        As a teacher, I definitely think it is reasonable. A high schooler being a bully is…not excusable, but there is at least a reasonable chance that they will mature into a decent person. A grown adult professional who gets involved in bullying a teenager? That’s a whole different level to me.

  49. MsManager*

    LW #4 – a very rare case where I (partially!) disagree with Alison’s advice. It sounds like you’re not particularly swamped right now at work, but rather are finding that the frequency of these 1:1s is not optimal for your overall workflow and productivity. If that’s the case, I would avoid framing the request for new cadence as being due to your current heavy workload, but rather adjust the script to reference overall time use and planning forward. In your situation, I would seek to signal a desire for a permanent shift up front, rather than having to go back with this later.

  50. Hush42*

    LW #5 You could be applying for a job that I have open on my team! We opened a Senior role for my team with the hope that we could find someone who would be able to step into a Manager position for that team in the next year or two. We basically wanted someone looking to learn and grow because the position is pretty niche to our industry. However, when we posted the position I had an applicant who was currently working in the industry as a manager of this type of team. He was willing to take a step back because the company he works for has some issues (well known issues in the industry). After talking with him and conferring with my boss we decided to open and offer him the manager position directly. This whole process took a couple of months and his start date is 6 weeks after the date we made him an offer, which is fine. But we still actually need to fill the open position on the team, just with slightly different goals. When he accepted the offer I told our recruiter that we are still hiring for that position but at this point I wanted to wait for him to start so that he has input on the hiring of someone who will report to him. The hiring process hasn’t been suspended it’s just paused waiting for the now hiring manager to start.

  51. Ready for the weekend*

    OP 1: Hugs to you. The best advice I can think of is to show this h.s. bully that you’re living your best live. Continue to enjoy working in the theater and if she does try to do anything to make you look bad, prove her wrong. Be yourself. Don’t feel intimidated or less than. Don’t stoop to her level.

    2. Thespian*

      I’m definitely trying to focus on the good things. I’m good at my job, I’m good at acting, and I have a wonderfully supportive family and husband.

    1. EA*

      This is kinda harsh, but I do agree that declining the invitations is a good way to show you’re not available to chat!

  53. Destra N.*

    Hold up, #3. This meeting is optional, but they’re holding strategic planning sessions?? That should not be an optional activity, ever. What I’m hearing in this is that only the attendees’ pet projects will be prioritized for the next year (or quarter, or whatever the period being planned for is) and that anyone who doesn’t attend will be SEVERELY disadvantaged performance-wise for that same upcoming period since none of their projects will be prioritized, and possibly financially penalized for it if your bonus structure is tied to performance and accomplishments. Not to mention the knock-on effects for future promotion potential when you can’t point to those projects because they weren’t prioritized because you couldn’t present and advocate for them at the “optional” off-site. This sounds toxic AF.

    1. Inkognyto*

      LW 4 here’s an idea. Block time to do work on the calendar.
      Then others cannot steal the time if there is none. They shouldn’t need to know why you have this time. I call them work/focus blocks and they are needed.
      In most email systems. Your calendar and what meeting title etc, isn’t seen by others. They just see a blocked time.

      Put focus blocks on your schedule to work on things. I do this and my manager agrees with it. I do 1-2 hr blocks where I can focus on my projects, and I don’t have people pulling me into meetings every 30 minutes. I’ve blocked 1/2 a day before. My mgr knows if he really needs me, I can get pulled into meetings, and out of others. If I’m busy some days I just hit “decline” on meetings, and if they ask why. I state that I need more time to finish something today. If they want to bump priority on my time they can go talk to my manager.

      When I didn’t my calendar had meetings with like only 30 min gaps all day. 30 minutes is just enough time after a meeting to refocus and get into a groove and then. start over. End of day I get almost no progress done, end of week.
      Because in between all of those meetings you need to check on your IM’s, emails and project updates. If you don’t set time aside for work responsibilities, it won’t get done.

  54. SecretPoster*

    LW#3 My employer used to have a yearly day retreat on a work day, so we were all paid, free lunch, it was great.
    Now this year they held it on a Saturday (day off for everyone), 2 hours away. hahaha. Absolutely not. I’m not driving 2 hours on my dime on a day off for something work related.

  55. Raida*

    “I can’t say anything about the bullying,”
    BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSH*T you can’t.

    But hey, I’m a total bastard and I’d much rather let everyone know she joyfully almost got me to kill myself than leave silently or suffer silently. I do not have to experience LW’s life of how that would effect them specifically – if it could resolve into a mental health spiral then only they can make that call.

    “I sincerely did not want to bring this up, but I’ve realised it’s necessary context.
    I do not want to hear about Jane Doe, every day, and how great she is.
    Please tone it down.
    Now, because that’s a really left-field, bitchy thing to say…
    In school she was my bully, she roped in other students and even faculty into her bullying. From *her* campaign against me I ended up in outpatient facilities over my mental health.
    I do *not* want to discuss my high school experience, or show off scars, or talk about suicidal ideation, or discuss medical history.
    But I also don’t want to quit this job, and I cannot bear to be bombarded with people talking up this woman who used to be a monster. It’s genuinely impacting me, I’m feeling ill all the time. I hate that she could still have any impact on me, but there we go.”

    1. Jennifer Strange*

      Saying any of this is not going to reflect well on the LW OR stop the talk about Jane (which is their ultimate goal here). They are better off keeping it to, “We weren’t friends in high school.”

  56. Jessica*

    On Story number one, I wouldn’t even add “it was a long time ago” to the “I really don’t want to talk about it” response. Not only is it not their business, it brings up the opportunity for people to go “Oh well, it was so long ago you should really be over it by now.”
    While many of us were bullied in school, the severity of the bullying varies from person to person and discounting someone’s reaction to bullying, even years later is rude and patronizing and should never be done.
    I do agree with Allison about saying something and getting some counseling because no one should keep you away from something you love.

  57. Annie*

    Another suggestion for #2: For workplace issues not specific to a person or work item, e.g. the Teams notification problem, do a workplace adaptation of, “ask 3, then ask me”. In this case, the “ask 3” would be accomplished using whatever you would have “asked me” to look up possible answers in help documentation and/or a search engine.

    And yes, the SBAR framing absolutely helps with forming an effective search query.

  58. Bopper*

    #2
    “Hey I noticed often when you send me a message or are talking about something you are jumping in the middle with out giving me the context. For my benefit, could you assume I don’t know the situation you are talking about and be more specific? For example, the other day you said “I keep seeing my messages” which on its own doesn’t seem to be a problem, but the context is that you are doing a presentation and you keep seeing your Teams messages. Or you are talking about the Teapot Handle project and you are referring to people as “they”… but I don’t know who “they are”… the context is that it is Pat, Chris and Terry in a meeting with you. Is that something you can do for me so I can help you more quickly?”

  59. Zeus*

    Re #4: “…people not in my vertical.”

    Can anyone please explain what this means to a confused Kiwi? It’s not terminology I’m familiar with.

    1. Annie*

      It means “people who not my direct reports, manager, manager’s manager, and so on up the chain” or “people in different departments or work areas from mine”.

      Hope that helps!

Comments are closed.