giving extra time off to people who get married, rejected me because I was late for the interview, and more

by Alison Green on September 25, 2024

I’m off today. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives.

1. Giving extra time off to people who get married

My friend got married this weekend, and she mentioned to me that her office gives her an extra week of PTO to use in the year which she got married. (The idea behind it being that she’ll use it on her honeymoon, although I doubt that that’s enforced.)

I was thinking today about the fairness of this policy. I’m not married and have no prospects (lol). If I worked at her office, I would get a week less of PTO — just because I’m single.

Ultimately, this doesn’t affect me because I don’t work at her office, but, what do you think?

Yeah, it’s lovely that they want to support their employees, but a policy of giving people a full extra week of paid vacation upon marriage is destined to cause resentment among people who aren’t married, or who were married before they were hired and would really like an extra week off to spend with their ill parent, or so forth. It’s prioritizing marriage above all other life events in a way that isn’t fair or equitable (although it reflects our culture’s tendency to do the same). I don’t think anyone would begrudge, like, a congratulatory fruit basket, but an extra week of vacation is a huge thing to only be giving to some.

An alternative would be to offer an extra week of PTO for anyone with a major life event, which they could define loosely (and they could cap it at one-time usage, or only every X years, or only after X years of employment) — or even remove the “major event” requirement and just let people have it after three years of employment or so forth.

– 2019

2. Approaching a manager in public for an impromptu chat about a job

Let’s say I visit a cafe close to my office every day at 3 p.m. for a cup of coffee. I also see a manager whose team has an opening, and it just so happens that I possess the qualifications required to join his team.

Are managers in general open to being approached by potential candidates in a public setting such as a cafe, and having a 5-10 minute chat if they genuinely had time to spare? What if the manager works for a company that is different from the candidate’s? Would they still be willing to talk to the candidate for a few minutes? They may stumble upon a very talented individual for their team.

Don’t do it! There are some managers who are always in recruiting mode and are happy to talk to potential candidates any time, anywhere. But there are far more managers who would be annoyed to be interrupted while they’re trying to have a quick coffee (and who may be doing something else they don’t want to stop).

And it’s not like interrupting someone in public is the only way to reach them and you have no other options. If you’re interested in approaching a hiring manager, you can do it over email or LinkedIn, where they can respond when it’s convenient for them and where you can include a copy of your resume, so they can figure out right from the start if it even makes sense to talk. (And if you’re really just interested in applying for a specific job with them, go ahead and apply, following the application instructions, since otherwise you’ll come across as if you’re trying to circumvent their process.)

The one exception to this is if the person works for your company. In that case, it’s reasonable to talk to them informally — but I still wouldn’t do it when they’re trying to relax.

– 2017

3. Interviewer rejected me because I was late for the interview

I had a job interview that got rescheduled because they had a snow day that closed their office. The rescheduled date was last week on Monday. I was really excited for the position and felt it was a great match for my experience and skills, and I had killer reference letters to attest to this.

It was hard to find parking and was still icy and snowy from the week before. After it was clear I wasn’t going to be as timely as I had hoped, I texted the manager I had been communicating with that I was just parking and would be there in a few minutes. (It was 1:07 pm, with our interview scheduled to start at 1:00 pm.)

I arrived about 1:10 and she and two other staff were waiting for me in a room. I apologized briefly (but didn’t want to focus on that) and what I heard in reply was. “Oh, it’s okay.” The interview went well and was well organized, thorough, and professional. I followed up two days later with a thank-you email.

But I heard back that being late had more or less eliminated me and clouded my other great qualities and that timeliness was very important for the position. I’m surprised and thought it was weird they didn’t bring that up in the interview. What do you think?

I don’t think it’s weird that they didn’t bring it up in the interview because it’s not necessarily something that requires discussion (and a lot of people wouldn’t know how to address it on the spot in a way that didn’t feel uncomfortably confrontational). Plus, they might have wanted time to think about it and decide how much it mattered to them first.

I do think penalizing you for being 10 minutes late if it was very icy and snowy was excessive; even when people plan for bad roads, they can’t always predict the weather impact with perfect precision. But I suspect not texting until you were already seven minutes late was the issue (as opposed to pulling over to contact them before the interview was scheduled to start, so they weren’t sitting there waiting and wondering if you were going to show).

– 2019

4. How do I politely end conversations at networking events?

Your recent post about conversation starters at industry events got me thinking: once you’ve got talking to someone at a networking event, and both people have got what they needed out of the conversation, how do you politely move on?

I’m on the board of the association for a charity that pays for me to attend various networking events. I want to get the most out of the event both for myself and my charity, meeting people who may want to collaborate, engaging industry leaders, and chatting to a good cross-section of the community so that they feel heard. But sometimes I get stuck — it’s not that I don’t want to talk to the person, I just need to circulate!

I know a few people who are networking ninjas. They are so good at extracting themselves from conversations without fuss that I don’t even notice them moving around. While I’m happy to say “I must circulate” to people I know well, it seems rude to just cut off the flow of conversation with someone you’ve only just met (especially if this is their rare chance to give input into our charity). In that situation, I usually say something awkward like, “I must pop to the toilet” which … isn’t that elegant…

I don’t want anyone to think I don’t value their conversation. Do you have any scripts I could use to move on without causing offense (or having to use the bathroom as a hideaway)?

“Well, it was great meeting you!” is an easy way to signal the conversation is coming to a close. You can dress it up by adding things like “I’m going to pass on your advice on X to our board,” “I hope we see each other at next month’s event,” and so forth. But the basic idea is to start saying those wrapping-up phrases.

Another way to do it is to offer your card and ask if they have one, and use that as your closing ceremony. Do the card exchange and then go straight to, “Wonderful! Hopefully we’ll stay in touch. It was great meeting you.”

If it still feels too abrupt to leave after those phrases, it’s fine to add, “I’m going to grab a fresh drink” or “I’m going to go check out that buffet!” or any other phrase that politely announces your intentions.

– 2019

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{ 42 comments }

{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Whale whale whale*

    In Portugal, where I’m from, you can get 15 days of marriage leave. So you get an extra two weeks off when you get married, by law, if you ask for them. They just have to be consecutive days, starting the day after your wedding. I honestly don’t know how I feel about it now that I’m not leaving there and don’t see it as “of course you get a marriage leave”.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jen*

      In Romania you get 5 days, also by law.

      Maybe it stings less because everyone gets minimum 20 days of PTO and ‘unlimited’ medical leave? (It’s not truly unlimited, but depending on the condition it can be up to a few months.)

      I don’t feel like I *need* those 5 days so I am not fussed, even though I personally don’t plan to get married.

      Reply ↓
    2. NforKnowledge*

      It feels much less galling when everyone in the country can (theoretically) get it rather than just people who get married while working for a specific company. It still puts undue weight on marriage as a life event above all others though, and if the country doesn’t have marriage equality that’s another big negative.

      Reply ↓
      1. Disappointed Australien*

        Or at least same-sex marriage, because marriage equality is like universal suffrage, a slogan rather than a reality.

        It also depends on the culture around, and legal practicalities of marriage. How many times a year can someone get married? Do they really give people extra leave for their sixth marriage? To the same person?

        Reply ↓
      2. Chocolate Teapot*

        I have a number of life events for which I would be eligible for addition time off. These include marriage, bereavement, moving house, birth and adoption. For marriage, it depends on who is getting married (e.g. I would get 3 days off for my own marriage, and one day for my offspring).

        Reply ↓
        1. Dolce Ryvita*

          Same here – it’s a day or two if I remember correctly, the idea being that getting married takes quite a bit of organising even if you don’t have a big wedding – just for registry office stuff, changing the name on your ID etc.

          Reply ↓
    3. Emmy Noether*

      I got one or two extra days for my wedding, which is the norm here. We also get days for births, bereavements and moving house. I think the idea is to help be able to take care of life stuff without having to take vacation days.

      What was sort of weird is that my MIL got two days for her son’s wedding (so more than the people getting married – different employer).

      Reply ↓
    4. The Prettiest Curse*

      I find it really fascinating to read how different countries try to incentivise marriage, penalise divorce or both. In the UK, married people don’t file their taxes together – so there are fewer tax advantages to getting married than in the US. It did, however, take us forever to get no-fault divorce, which only became law very recently.

      As a married person, I do think it’s inequitable to be given additional leave for getting married. I do think it’s a good thing to give people the option to take an extra week of leave every so often, though.

      Reply ↓
    5. Mameshiba*

      Same, here in Japan it is common to get some amount of leave, and/or maybe a gift from the company/your coworkers. I got 5 days when I got married, I believe they had to be used the same month as the date of marriage.

      There is also usually leaves for condolences, birth of a child (maternity/paternity), some kind of sick leave, maybe a company gift for when your child enters school age. That company also offered 5 days off for milestone years of service (also had a union!).

      Personally I like it and don’t see it as any different than other benefits that I don’t take part in. It sucks that it’s not equitable for LGBT (some companies might allow it, especially if the local city allows same-sex unions). But in a package with similar leaves for life events, I don’t see it as any different from sick leave I don’t use, or a parking permit when I don’t drive.

      Reply ↓
    6. Kiki*

      Same in Belgium (‘klein verlet’) Getting married or attending a wedding in the family*, divorce, birth of a child, death in the family*, and some other cases. The amount of time depends on the event and how closely related you are to the person (in the case of weddings/funerals), to be taken within a limited timespan around the date of the event.

      * parents, grandparents, siblings, partner, child, grandchild…

      (We also get to take urgent leave if our child falls ill or there are other circumstances that don’t make it possible to go to work – eg. house burning down. Those are limited to 5 or 10 days a year I think)

      Reply ↓
  2. Polyhymnia O’Keefe*

    #2 — The weather argument also holds less weight since the snow was a week earlier. I realize that roads can still be bad after a week, but in my experience, that’s out of the realm of urgent. There’s more likelihood that roads have been sanded/plowed, and more importantly, it’s not catching drivers off-guard anymore. I realize that the interview was rescheduled because of a snow day, but I’d bet that being 7 minutes late, even without notice, during an active snow event would not have the same impact.

    Reply ↓
    1. Pink Sprite*

      Normally, I’d agree with you. However my sister lives in a neighborhood surrounded with houses. But also has an elementary school adjacent to her backyard. And around the corner and over a street is a small hospice home.
      The whole neighborhood usually does not get plowed for (at minimum) five days- usually around a week before it’s all clear. And that’s hoping that there isn’t any more snow.

      Reply ↓
  3. Pink Sprite*

    Re: letter 1: Wow. If I worked somewhere with such a vacation policy, I’d be ticked. There just isn’t going to be a wedding/marriage in my future, so I deliberately don’t receive extra vacation time.
    You can be damn sure I’d be raging to TPTB for equality.

    Reply ↓
    1. Coffee*

      I assume wedding is framed as once in the lifetime event but what happens when longtime employees get divorced and remarried? Do they get the vacation again?

      Reply ↓
    2. Zelda*

      Becoming a parent is another life event that isn’t going to happen to everyone, yet even as a childfree person, I don’t resent generous maternity/paternity leave policies. How does that comparison hold up, and where does it fall down?

      Reply ↓
      1. korangeen*

        I suppose because we recognize the creation of children as essential to the survival of humanity overall, and parental leave as essential to the survival of that particular helpless infant. And it’s not vacation. I’d be kinda ticked too about people getting married getting an extra week of vacation.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ellis Bell*

        It’s generally seen as a way to correct the old system which was “men have to get back to work to support the family” and “women only work until they get married so they don’t need parental leave”. If you’re a woman who doesn’t want kids, it’s still nice to not have other women deliberately excluded from the workplace which would make it male dominated. Men also deserve the option to be more involved in their family than being a breadwinner.

        Reply ↓
  4. Nodramalama*

    I’d be so resentful if my work offered married leave. It makes me feel like Carrie in sex and the city. Where’s my “congrats on succeeding and thriving in life without a partner and going on holidays by myself and saving to buy a house on my own” leave.

    Reply ↓
  5. NforKnowledge*

    LW3 who was late, from the way the story is told it sounds like you planned to arrive maybe 5-10 min early and then finding parking took that long so you eventually texted 7 min late to say you’d be there soon.

    To my mind that is far too little time to have as a buffer, especially if you know it’s snowy and icy. For something where I definitely don’t want to be late I generally count on adding 50-100% to my travel time, so if I expect it to take 30 min I give myself 45-60 min to get there in plenty of time. And that’s without adverse weather conditions!

    Reply ↓
  6. Raida*

    “If I worked at her office, I would get a week less of PTO — just because I’m single.”
    To clarify, you’d get one week less ONE TIME because you’re single.
    She’d get one week more ONE TIME, unless she gets married every year.

    You’d lose nothing by them getting this gift that most staff would use once, if that.

    Certainly the Major Events thing is a nice idea, to balance it out, but then capping it becomes ‘unfair’ like I get married and then Nanna is sick and I don’t get more time. Or it’s not capped and a drama and bad luck staffer gets a month a year…
    Best format: Don’t have one week PTO a year. Hi from Australia :P

    Reply ↓
    1. TheBunny*

      How about we just make it a blanket rule that we don’t award PTO based on a patriarchal societal construct and leave it at that?

      It’s been 5 years. Hopefully that office has decided the same by now.

      Reply ↓
  8. Mid*

    It’s interesting to see everyone is so strongly against the marriage leave. I’m not married and have zero intention of getting married. But, I don’t see it as a big deal that they offer it. Weddings aren’t typically a relaxing, low stress time for people. That extra week is a nice way to allow people to take care of Wedding Stuff without having to use all their normal vacation time, so they can actually relax on their vacation.

    Maybe my feelings would differ if my employer was otherwise stingy with vacation time (like only giving 1-2 weeks, so that extra week changes vacation from “low” to “slightly more reasonable”) but otherwise…I don’t get why people are so opposed. It’s not like you’re getting a week taken away from you when your coworker gets married. I’m also never going to take maternity leave, and I’m not upset when my coworkers get that extra time off.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ellis Bell*

      I get what you’re saying, and I love weddings personally, but it’s not like they are unavoidable things that happen TO people; you don’t have to have a wedding even to be married. You can just go have a simple ceremony with a couple of witnesses. Also, there are just plenty of life events that are more stressful. I’ve planned two weddings; one big and one small and honestly moving house was more stressful than either.

      Reply ↓
    2. korangeen*

      Why is that wedding more important than any other stressful thing? Plus a wedding is largely stressful by choice, since you could choose to not do a complicated wedding. Wouldn’t it only be fair to also get an extra week of vacation for an extravagant 40th birthday party or something?

      Reply ↓
  9. RCB*

    This is an honest question so please don’t cancel me: how are we differentiating between marriage leave being not okay and parental leave being okay? They are both additional leaves for something that wouldn’t always apply to everyone if you framed it that way. I guess the parental leave we’re treating more as a medical leave situation? I think everyone is seeing the marriage leave as a honeymoon treat, thus extra vacation, but I read it as time off to deal with the stress of planning the wedding, a major life event. You’re hosting this huge life event and it’s going to be stressful and you need more time off to deal with all those moving parts (even small weddings can be very stressful so let’s not take this into the weeds like we are known to do) and headaches so you can focus on that and not be distracted at work (because you’re going to be anyways so why not give up the charade and just make it official!). I think if you look at it this way it makes a lot more sense, and the unfairness meter drops significantly.

    Reply ↓
    1. Beth**

      This was my thought. One of my colleagues is about to go off on her third maternity leave, which is 6 months of full pay plus another 3 months on partial pay. I don’t and am very unlikely to ever have children. Should I get 18 months off paid to make up for that?

      My employer doesn’t offer marriage leave anymore, but used to offer a week, which seemed reasonable. Yes, some people get married more than once and others not at all, but it’s not something people are going to do just to get one week of extra leave any more than people are going to have additional children just for the mat leave.

      Reply ↓
    2. Mameshiba*

      I agree, I think it comes from the same thinking behind giving practical home gifts as wedding gifts. The idea being that you are moving house, starting new lives together, and need time off to do all of that. That isn’t the case for many people nowadays who live together before marriage, but that’s where the idea comes from, I think.

      Same with bereavement leave. It’s not a medical event for the person taking the leave, but it is a major stressful life event, and I wouldn’t begrudge someone taking that time away from work.

      Reply ↓
    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      > time off to deal with the stress of planning the wedding, a major life event

      But that is completely self-inflicted. You can get married just by making an appointment at town hall (or similar). Why should the employer, and the newly married person’s colleagues, gave to accommodate what is essentially an expensive party.

      Reply ↓
    4. talos*

      If you’re a parent…you have a baby now. I recognize that your baby needs your time.

      If you got married…your new spouse probably doesn’t need nearly-continuous care for several months?

      A honeymoon is basically an optional fancy vacation. I, a single person, would also love a fancy vacation (alone or with the not-married-to-me person of my choice) if it was available, but I wouldn’t love or benefit from a “take care of a helpless tiny baby” leave.

      Reply ↓
  10. Scottish Beanie*

    I see the wedding leave similar to bereavement leave or paternal leave. It’s a specific category for a special circumstance where it would be nice, and sometimes essential, to have some time off. Although I will say that it would be nice if special categories could extend to elder care.

    Reply ↓
    1. No thanks*

      Yes. Coming from a country where wedding leave is regulated by law, I can confirm that the idea is more similar to bereavement leave than a free additional vacation. It is more to deal with the complications of changing your legal status etc. At least, that’s how the law means it.

      Reply ↓
  11. Mark*

    #1 My office give 5 days marriage leave (once) per employee, also 5 days bereavement leave (close family) 1 day bereavement leave (any funeral), 5 days miscarriage leave, 5 days IVF leave, 10 days paternal leave (per pregnancy), 5 days domestic violence leave and various other ones. Basically for life events that cause stress or take your mind away from work. Some staff avail of many, some staff avail of none, but the options are there. Overall it makes a better workplace and those who have no need to avail of any of the leave options are normally happy their close relatives and themselves are healthy and well.

    Reply ↓
  12. Anna*

    I’ve worked in 3 different countries that all offer 1-10 days of marriage leave. I think the difference is that it’s statutory, just like parental leave so probably a much less sensitive topic since it’s not an individual manager or company decision. It’s literally the law.

    Reply ↓
  13. Janne*

    Marriage / registered partnership leave is in my collective labour agreement. My colleague just did his registered partnership and got I think 4 days off. When I moved houses I also got days off, because moving leave is also in the CLA. The thing is, we have so many days off that I don’t even notice if someone has more or fewer. I’ve been off for more than 4 weeks already this year, then also I work 36 hours so I am off once every 2 weeks too, and I have more than a week of vacation time left. I’m not at work often enough to have opinions about my colleagues’ vacations haha!

    Reply ↓
  14. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    I think FinalJob gave an extra 1 or 2 days PTO for people who got married. Marriage is one of those institutions that most countries regard as beneficial for the stability of society as a whole and often by employers too (that think longterm), much like having kids.

    As a singleton, I didn’t resent the extra PTO at all – because I received 32 days vacation, ~10 public holidays and 6 weeks full sick pay per incident (not per year).
    Also it seemed minor compared to 12 months paid maternity leave and 3 months paternity, which I also never had cause to use.

    imo, when those extra marriage days are a really tiny extra %, there isn’t resentment unless you are making a stand on principle.
    (We’ve had marriage equality for many years, so that wouldn’t be one of the principles)

    Reply ↓
  15. Irish Teacher.*

    LW1, in Ireland, those working in the public service are entitled to 5 days “marriage leave.” I’ve never heard any resentment about it and as somebody who has no intention of marrying, would never have thought of seeing it as anything other than positive.

    I do realise that leave often works differently in the US and it seems like there are less different types which may affect people’s impression as may the issue of whether or not it’s a norm.

    Reply ↓

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