my boss was suddenly fired and my employees are freaking out

by Alison Green on September 18, 2024

A reader writes:

I work at a small company and my team is even smaller: it’s just me, two people who report to me, my boss (until yesterday), and the much more senior person who leads the team. My boss has always been incredibly competent, done great work (by my own account and by my grandboss’s account), and been a great manager/teacher/mentor to me and my direct reports.

Yesterday my grandboss suddenly announced that my boss had been fired, which was completely out of the blue for me and, based on the panic I was fielding from my direct reports, for them as well. My boss clearly also didn’t see it coming — the morning he was let go, he was communicating with me about logistical things (think “I’ll be tied up on a call for X project at 11 am, can you handle ABC and we’ll debrief afterward?”).

My grandboss and the head of my company gave us the news, and explicitly said this had nothing to do with performance or work quality (they reiterated that both of those were exceptional) but really just that it wasn’t a great fit and they just didn’t see him having a future here. They immediately followed that up with excitement about the replacement for my boss, to whom they’ve apparently already extended an offer (allegedly, the replacement verbally accepted the offer the night before they fired my boss).

My direct reports are understandably incredibly anxious about what this means for them and the organization, and the vague “his performance was amazing but we didn’t see a future for him here” only heightens the fear that they could just be fired at random with no idea why. The announcement about the replacement also felt callous and unnecessary and visibly rubbed my team the wrong way.

My grandboss approached me later to say that I shouldn’t worry about my job, and he asked if I thought he should talk to the two more junior people on the team. I thought it was obvious that was the right thing to do, but he handled the announcement so poorly that maybe it wouldn’t be!

I already have regular check-ins with my reports individually to discuss performance and am very clear with expectations (what’s required for their current role and in order to advance in the organization), areas for improvement, etc. They both are doing a great job. I also took each of them out individually after we got the news so they could vent and/or ask me any questions. But given 1) this was explicitly not performance-related and 2) I myself was visibly blindsided by the news (I blurted out “What? Why?” before I could stop myself, and have been very vocal prior to this about how highly I think of my boss), I can’t imagine either of them feels comforted by any reassurances coming from me.

Your employees are right to be alarmed, as are you!

If your company fires someone they themselves say was an “exceptional” performer, then it’s logical for everyone else to worry that they too might be fired out of the blue.

Now, maybe that’s not actually true. Maybe his boss had talked with him about other ways that the job wasn’t a fit. Who knows, maybe your boss was determined to pursue strategy X when his managers wanted strategy Y and this was just a difference in visions or tactics — although in that case you’d think they would have just said that, since it’s a lot easier to explain. Or maybe he questioned them too much, or maybe he did a great job on the day-to-day but struggled to set a broader vision, or he was good at X but they want the role to be more Y, or he had bad chemistry with the people above him. It’s also possible that your company uncovered something egregious (like, I don’t know, hiring sex workers on the company dime) and, in trying to protect his privacy, flubbed how they messaged it.

Or maybe it’s none of that and they make capricious decisions based on very little. Or they wanted to hire a senior manager’s brother-in-law and unceremoniously kicked out your boss so they could.

We don’t know, because their messaging on this was so bad.

You can’t credibly or ethically reassure your employees that their jobs are safe unless you have a better understanding of what happened.

Can you talk to your grandboss and explain that people are alarmed to be told someone was fired for reasons that explicitly had nothing to do with his performance, and that while you appreciate the need for discretion around personnel decisions, without some additional information people will assume they too could be fired without warning and without reason … and so if there is a reason, it would help to share more info with people?

If they expect you to do the work of reassuring people and stopping panicked job hunts, they need to give you the tools to do that with.

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{ 237 comments }

{ 237 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. PurpleShark*

    Years ago during my grad school days, I was a restaurant server. An exceptional server was abruptly fired and it turned out she was stealing from customers. You just never know what people may be hiding.

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    1. Antilles*

      If it was that sort of thing, surely they wouldn’t have raved after the Boss’ departure about how the Boss’ performance and work was exception and then further re-iterate that Boss’ performance was excellent?

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      2. MigraineMonth*

        Yeah, it’s a terrible choice of messaging if that’s the real reason.

        On the other hand, it’s a terrible choice of messaging regardless of the real reason. Who says, “Wow, Bob’s doing great, isn’t he? BTW, we just fired him out of the blue and won’t say why, but hey, let’s all give him a round of applause for the excellent job he was doing before that.”

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      3. Festively Dressed Earl*

        My first thought when I read: they meant “performance” and “work quality” to mean KPIs. The one thing that’s left out of that interpretation is “misconduct.” There’s not usually a metric for “act right,” and it’s possible HR and Grandboss are trying to avoid gossip or scandal.

        (Yeah, I know that “misconduct” would also be included under “performance”, but not everyone parses it that way.)

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        1. Wintermute*

          This was my read as well.

          They likely meant ” don’t rethink what you were told or saw modelled about work quality about here, we had reasons that were totally unrelated to performance”

          And the way they said it left the ambiguity that it can also be read as “no reason”.

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        2. Quill*

          Especially if it’s, say, embezzlement: in the interest of keeping the “we found out he was embezzling” quiet people might just default to what they knew prior to the embezzlement coming out, which was “we had no problems!”

          Which then trickles down to the people who don’t need to know specifics other than that there was an actual good reason as “we fired this guy out of the blue!”

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        3. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah, same. If his widgets were perfect everytime, but he harassed someone, he’d be gone. Why they’d praise his work – possibly a misguided attempt to make people who worked for him and did work to his specs worry they’re doing poorly and didn’t know, possibly a misguided attempt at thinking saying the work was good would lead everyone to conclude “then it was a not a work product thing”. Which, hey, some of us went there, but still way too vague to not freak people out.

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      4. Sharkie*

        This. I was the new hire that took over for someone that stole from clients. They did not rave about them. They did not have me waiting in the wings to take over. They did not praise the performance and say “they did not have a future here”. They said “We can’t share what happened right now, but please know it was serious.” . Something from the grandboss and company feels off.

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          1. MassMatt*

            I was waiting for something like that in the letter but there were no such details. I hope LW follows up letting us know if the “great new hire” is grandboss’s freshly graduated SIL, and also that they got a great new job somewhere that doesn’t treat people like this!

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          2. Mentally Spicy*

            That’s precisely where my brain went. Manager suddenly fired because, despite excellent work, “they didn’t see a future for him?” A new manager waiting to take over who’s already had a job offer?

            This smacks of “I promised my son/nephew/neighbour’s cousin a job. So we got rid of Bob and now you’re about to be managed by someone who’s never worked in our industry before. Enjoy!”

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      5. JSPA*

        They’re hardly going to say, “he and his hard drive were picked up in an undercover investigation about X, but it has nothing to do with this business.” Nor, “he was boinking the daughter of the CEO, she’s 18, he’s 45 and married.”

        Or someone felt he was angling for their job, and got rid of the competition ( Which should eventually worry you, and perhaps your reports, but not in the immediate future).

        Or he misrepresented something major on his resume, and it just came to light.

        Or it’s good old nepotism and they’re bringing someone in to cash in on the good work your old boss did.

        Or they’re doing Something Discriminatory, having stuck their noses into his personal life / politics / opinions.

        But they almost certainly didn’t fire him just because they didn’t like the color of his socks, or because he was excellent but not quite excellent enough.

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        1. Hannah Lee*

          I once worked a company where someone was – maybe not let go entirely over this one thing – but he was let go after he’d been promoted to VP and didn’t immediately use his increase in pay to get a new status car. The other executives were like “you need to get a new car, we can’t have a VP driving around in a 15 year old car, especially not a (not Mercedes/BMW/Masarati or other fancy car)” He wasn’t driving customers or investors around, there was no concrete *job* reason why he needed a new car to drive to/from work in and his was in okay shape.

          I think they just didn’t like the fact that a) he didn’t get a new car right off the bat when promoted, meaning he didn’t personally care about having status symbols he didn’t value and b) he didn’t cave to the peer pressure when they started up about it. Which made him not one of them.
          So a few months later when there was some jockeying for position, power at that level, he was out even though his ‘performance’, KPI’s, meeting and exceeding objectives were all strong.

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          1. Jolie*

            I shudder to imagine how they’d react to someone who doesn’t drive at all. Some people just like taking the tram, mmmmkay?

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            1. The Provisional Republic of A Thousand Eggs*

              Well, use your salary increase to get a luxury tram, then!

              I’m in southern Finland, so the “SpåraKoff” in Helsinki was the first thought that crossed my mind. A tram of this kind for one person/one family would have far fewer seats, though, and no entrance fee. But I do like the idea of being served beer or lonkero on my way home from work.

              No idea where I would park it, but I guess I could buy a tram garage (complete with private tracks from the nearest public tram stop) with my salary increase too. /s

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    2. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      That’s where I went too. That either legally they can’t say why they fired him or they don’t want to say why they fired him because they didn’t want everyone to know. Maybe he was sleeping with the owners wife or someone else and he got caught. Something similar happened at a place i worked at. But it wasn’t the boss’s wife it was the managers employee. We all knew what happened because the girl had a hissy fit and wanted the entire place to know and to walk out until he was brought back.

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      1. But Of Course*

        Then they need to say what they can, because what they’ve said is “excellent performance is absolutely no bar to you losing your job here with no notice.”

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        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          Yeah. There are ways to indicate a reason without going into detail.

          And their explanation just would make me more nervous if I worked there. “Not a good fit” reads like, “We just didn’t like him but don’t have a good reason to feel that way. Oh, and we manage by emotions.”

          There could be valid reasons why he was fired, but this messaging is terrible.

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          1. I'm great at doing stuff*

            This happened at a previous job. A guy who I believe did well at his job (different department) was suddenly fired “due to misconduct outside of work.” We immediately assumed he had an affair, though I never found out. He had a high profile position in a very visible community center, so I could see the board not wanting whatever he did sullying the org’s reputation.

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      2. Melicious*

        Then you say he was fired for misconduct. That’s it. It indicates there was a good reason he was fired without saying what it is. I’d accept that answer and understand they can’t tell us what the misconduct was. Unless they want to protect his reputation? That seems less important that the trust of all your remaining employees!!

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        1. Hoya Lawya*

          Except if there was a settlement agreement of some sort, it is common for both parties to say there was no wrongdoing. They have to stick to that line publicly even if an underlying cause triggered the dispute.

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          1. Kevin Sours*

            Then it was choice to agree to that. Not going to let them off the hook for blowback that they decided was the price for avoiding drama when firing somebody.

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          2. Irish Teacher.*

            I still think there are better ways of putting it. “He left by mutual consent,” “he left to pursue opportunities elsewhere,” “he’s leaving for personal reasons.” Even just “John is no longer with the company and we are happy to welcome Jason in his place” or “we had to let him go” would be better than “his performance was excellent but we just didn’t see a future for him.”

            What they said makes it clear “we fired him and we aren’t telling you why beyond it’s not due to him being bad at his job.” This just invites speculation as they are basically highlighting “there is a big mystery here” and it gives the sense that either John did something really terrible or the company is more interested in one being a “cultural fit” than doing well at your job.

            Could there be other reasons? Sure. But my immediate thought would be either the company is in financial difficulties and John was too expensive so they fired him and hired somebody less qualified in his stead or they had somebody they wanted to hire – perhaps a friend or relative of somebody – and therefore they fired John to make room for them. My next thought would probably be, “I guess it could be that John did something really terrible they don’t want to talk about too.”

            Either say there was no wrongdoing or that there was wrongdoing or heck, don’t bring it up at all, but “well, we can say it wasn’t because of his work, but we can’t tell you any more” is…about the worst way possible to phrase it.

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    3. Ess Ess*

      Agreed. I was working on a special project with a coworker that had worked at my company for several years. We had worked on other projects together. He was really good at his job and we were making great progress toward our final deadline. Suddenly, he wasn’t there any more. And he wasn’t in the company email system. And management wouldn’t even mention his name. I finally found someone who just told me to google him and found out he’d been arrested and found guilty for some terrible child abuse actions and the company immediately fired him. The company would not say ANYTHING about the reason.

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          1. Nah*

            It’s not them getting fired that’s the issue in question MassMatt and Ess Ess are commenting on, it’s the complete lack of acknowledgement that a member of the organization Ess Ess was working with was removed and scrubbed out of the system without a trace or acknowledgement. No one is arguing in favor of child abuse here.

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    4. Beth*

      It’s hard to imagine he was fired for egregious misconduct when his higher-ups were fine leaving him in the role until his replacement was ready to start. If you catch your direct report stealing, you don’t leave them in a position to steal more while you go through the hiring process!

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      1. Observer*

        Depending on what it was, it could be that they found someone quickly who could jump in and check stuff out before it gets “stale”.

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      2. Strive to Excel*

        The only reasonable reason I can think of is that they became aware of something fishy, started monitoring him to see if it was a pattern, and started quietly hiring in the background.

        If that *is* the case they’ve still botched the execution because the employees shouldn’t be panicking.

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        1. Coverage Associate*

          If it was something not directly work related, like an affair, it’s possible that they kept him on until the replacement was found.

          Or, if it was dishonesty in non core job duties, they could have removed his access and kept him on until a replacement was found. (Like if he only had access to whatever resources he screwed up temporarily for a special situation, they could revoke access but not fire him. It could be foolish to do it that way, depending on how and what he messed up, but it would be procedurally possible in many offices.)

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        2. Coverage Associate*

          Example: maybe he was given access to highly confidential information as a one time thing, and they figured out he used the information inappropriately. They could revoke his access to the information and keep him on for his normal duties without worrying about further misuse of information. They probably shouldn’t keep him on, but it’s a fairly common data breach scenario.

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      3. Kara*

        I can imagine it, but it still doesn’t reflect well on the company if they let someone become that invaluable. If it’s a case of, ‘he’s embezzling X amount but he’s so critical to our business processes that we’d lose X times alot if we fired him without someone able to immediately take over his role’, i could see a company doing the math and accepting that leaving him in place while they hire is a more acceptable loss than immediately firing him.

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    6. KayDeeAye*

      I think there’s a decent chance that it was something egregious that lead to the OP’s boss getting fired. Maybe not, but the OP’s organization won’t be the first to handle a delicate situation clumsily. Case in point: We had a board member “suddenly” resign. The reason he gave was so…silly, so frivolous, and involves something that will have only a very mild and short-term effect on him that nobody (at least nobody on staff) believes it.

      Maybe he has health issues. Maybe his wife asked him not to run for reelection. Or maybe – and this is, we suspect, the real reason – this is related to the fact that Mr. Sudden has been talked to many times about making inappropriate comments to employees, particularly female employees. They’re not wildly horrible, as such comments go – I’ve heard worse – but I have heard better, too, and they are definitely enough to make people uncomfortable! One or two might be excusable, but he just doesn’t stop, despite many complaints. Even if he doesn’t accept that the things he is saying are inappropriate, he should be able to understand that other people *don’t like them* and that’s reason enough to stop. The problem is that his is an elected position, and there just isn’t a mechanism in place to jettison anyone in that position. I expect the organization I work for will figure out such a mechanism now!

      Anyway, there’s no way leadership will ever tell us what really happened. Never. The people who don’t know about Mr. Sudden’s “little” issue with inappropriate comments will be left wondering what in the world happened. I hope that isn’t the case for the OP.

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      1. Kevin Sours*

        Management is the one that is in control of the information. If they want people to accept there was a legitimate reason for firing OP’s boss, they need to make the information available to support that.

        If they choose not to, the consequences of not doing so fall squarely on their shoulders. It’s not really on the rest of us to find reasons that explain their behavior.

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    7. CubeFarmer*

      My first thought was that there was a reason behind the firing and that grandboss either cannot talk about it or doesn’t want to talk about it because it’s embarrassing to the company. I wouldn’t be so sure that boss doesn’t know the exact reason behind the firing.

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    1. ferrina*

      That’s what I read. Who has a back-up candidate ready to go? Every time I’ve seen someone abruptly let go, it’s been followed by an awkward shuffling of workload while we post the open position.

      Maybe–maaaaaybe— someone knew someone who was retired but willing to step in or was contracting and willing to take on full-time work on short-notice. Maybe the hiring is unrelated the firing. But that’s quite the coincidence. Guaranteed that this new hire is connected to someone high up at the company.

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      1. 1-800-BrownCow*

        I’ve worked a couple places that had a back-up candidate in place before firing someone. It was for high-up positions where having a gap between employment was not good and not a “shuffling of workload” wasn’t plausible for certain aspects of their job. One of those times, it was my boss that was fired at the end of the workday when most of us had already left for the day. Next morning, the direct reports were pulled into a meeting first thing in the morning, given the news and immediately introduced to his replacement. However, difference in my situation is that we weren’t 100% surprised our manager was fired as there were some issues with him. But at that company, he was the highest held position that I ever experienced being fired and basically was because of work performance. He was told to improve and given time and he didn’t improve. Apparently because of the position he held, he figured they’d never fire him, but they did. His replacement was someone that had worked with a couple of the owners at a previous job, so they knew him already. But he got the position through an executive recruiter. In the end, he turned out to be a much better manager and I enjoyed working for him.

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        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          I worked somewhere that fired a VP then brought in a retired former colleague of the new CEO to fill in until they could get a permanent replacement. (The replacement was actually the best VP we ever had in that division.)

          But the fired VP was widely disliked and just not good at leadership. Nobody questioned it.

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        2. Ally McBeal*

          I worked for a company that did this for everyone, but especially administrative assistants. It got to the point that we complained that they were holding interviews in our “fishbowl” conference room – our industry was male-dominated, so any time we saw a young woman in there, the entire admin staff panicked because they reasonably assumed that one of them was on the chopping block. Sometimes that was the case, and sometimes they were interviewing candidates in advance of a senior-level hire (i.e. hiring the admin who would support the senior person), but there was no way to tell. The exec team finally got the hint and moved the interviews into a more private conference room, but the dynamic of “hiring an admin to replace one we’re preparing to fire” remained. It sucked.

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      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Yeah, I’ve gotta say “We needed a position for CEO’s nephew” is the obvious explanation here.

        If that’s not it, the company is doing a terrible job of conveying that.

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        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          I thought the same thing! I’ve worked places where that would be the case, but I’ve also worked places where it wouldn’t.

          I am so curious to see how the new manager works out.

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      3. Chirpy*

        I mean, when my boss (store manager) was fired, one of the associate managers was immediately put in his place temporarily, but the company still had interviews for a few weeks before deciding to give him the job permanently.

        (They never did tell us why boss was fired, although most of us assumed it was an accumulation of things, once we thought about it. But it was still a huge surprise.)

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      4. fhqwhgads*

        To me “back up candidate ready to go” says “investigating something serious and pretty sure it’ll end in sacking the person, but need all the ducks in a row before they do it”. But that’s speculation.

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    2. Antilles*

      That’s the only explanation I can think of, because every other possible explanation just doesn’t seem to fit.
      -If boss left voluntarily, they wouldn’t have said fired, and also he probably would have told you himself.
      -If the boss’ departure was a pre-planned transition strategy, he wouldn’t have been communicating about logistical things for that same afternoon.
      -If he was doing some fire-on-spot level stuff (e.g., embezzlement or whatever) or massively ticked off the CEO to “get the hell out forever!” levels, they wouldn’t have had the replacement instantly ready to go.

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      1. Biff*

        They may have, though. Say he was embezzling. If they had really good evidence he was embezzling, they might have started doing quiet interviews on the side while they confirmed their hunch. The minute they knew “oh, we’ve got him, and we’re going to can him tomorrow” they could make that offer and have limited impact to the business.

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        1. ferrina*

          Even if they had a replacement ready to go (which is rare, but I’ve certainly seen it happen), why would they continue to praise his performance? Whenever I’ve seen someone suddenly fired for cause, everyone who knows anything immediately says nothing about the person except that they’ve left the company.

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          1. Margaret Cavendish*

            “We regret to inform you that Fergus is no longer with the organization as of today. We wish him well in his future endeavours.”

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            1. Lacey*

              My employer only wishes people well if they weren’t fired “for cause”
              For example, if the position just wasn’t a good fit.

              If they were doing something crappy – it just says, “As of today Fergus is no longer employed by Org. Please direct future accounting enquiries to Greg”

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        2. lyonite*

          This is where I’m at, with a sideline of something like old boss was bad at managing up or something–they knew they wanted to get rid of him but it wasn’t urgent. Or maybe both? Either way, it’s not a good sign for the upper management that they handled it this badly.

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          1. Biff*

            I guess it could also be that he was really good at 85% of the job, but the other 15% he just really sucked, and it wasn’t getting better. You know, someone who is great with clients, great manager, fast turn around, etc, etc, but there’s a critical compliance thing they need to be doing and if they can’t do it, they just can’t stay long term.

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              Then why explicitly say he did a great job and wasn’t fired for performance reasons?

              Actually, that’s true in literally every case. It’s such a weird thing to say about someone you fired if you aren’t going to share the real reason.

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            2. Overthinking It*

              Under those conditions (85% great, 15% no good) you’d probably try to rearrange responsibilities. Because great at 85% is probably of more value than 100% mediocre. And among the other 3 team member, there was probably someone who could pick up the other 15%. (Unless it was a very, very niche skill.)

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      2. Tio*

        This, exactly. I’ve been n management for a long time now and this is the only explanation I can see that involves having the new hire ready to hop in. And even more indication that the new leader is a nepo hire is that the job doesn’t appear to have been posted (or at least not noticed to be posted by anyone on the team for long enough to get it filled!)

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      3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        It seems clear to me that they’ve been planning to push him out for a while but needed the replacement lined up. The moment the replacement accepted, they spring into action with the firing.

        As for why they are at pains to say it was nothing to do with performance etc and he was excellent – I expect this is a “protest too much” sort of statement.

        I too would be worried, because what this episode tells us is that at any time, they could already have plans in place to push you out and be recruiting a replacement. Yes even if they say you don’t have anything to worry about… I bet if the (fired) boss had asked “do I have anything to worry about” beforehand they would have said no.

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    3. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      That’s how it reads to me, too. I’ve been the new person in that scenario; the position had no redundancy and was “mission critical,” so Management kept the low-performer in the position until the successor was secured and only then started to be honest about performance and expectations.

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    4. Andie Begins*

      I was coming here to bet a crisp high five that if we get an update we will find out this is the tip of the iceberg for bad management at the company and they fired the excellent boss to bring in some unqualified friend or family member.

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      1. Sloanicota*

        I suspect that’s the truth, but maybe I’ve grown cynical. Right now, absent any other information (like embezzlement/harassment/something you might not know about) what you know is that good performance isn’t rewarded at this company. I would connect with ex-boss via linked in and maybe ask them to coffee to see if I can glean more info.

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    5. LunaTuna*

      This was my read too. This happened a handful of times at my work and almost every new employee was from the CEO’s previous workplace. And then they ended up trying to offer a few of the fired employees their jobs back because what do you know they were actually excellent at their jobs and shouldn’t have been fired.

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        1. MassMatt*

          It kind of is if people fired are gotten rid of for no good reason and their replacements are incompetent/inexperienced and their only qualification is having worked with/belonged to same frat as the boss.

          It CAN be fine, but IME it’s most often very much like nepotism except through friends and not relatives. The chances that the people the boss worked with before/went to school with are ALSO the very best people for the jobs he’s hiring for (getting rid of proven performers) is not that high for multiple roles.

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          2. metadata minion*

            I even give it a lot of side-eye if the new hires are excellent employees but so were the people they fired. Yes, I know you legally *can* fire me just because you’d rather hire Jan from your old firm, but it’s a shitty thing to do.

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        2. Not That Kind of Doctor*

          It’s not outrageous, but it absolutely is a reason for the other employees to worry that the same could happen to them for no other reason.

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        3. Irish Teacher.*

          I would say it’s outrageous if they fire people to do so. Admittedly, I am in a country where you need a pretty good reason to fire people and there are strict regulations for laying people off, but even if it’s legal, leaving somebody with no income when they have done nothing wrong and it’s not the only alternative remaining to you (like your company is at risk of bankruptcy if you don’t) strikes me as pretty unacceptable.

          Bringing on team members from her former workplace to fill roles as they arise. Sure. Perfectly reasonable. Firing somebody for on reason just to bring somebody on. Really not OK.

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    6. a trans person*

      Absent misconduct that I’m told about, that would be a “quit on the spot, no notice” kind of event for me, if I were one of the underlings on this team. I’ve had a good boss yanked away from me before, but it was a layoff, not an outright replacement. And it still contributed to my leaving within 6 months.

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    7. Irish Teacher.*

      That was my immediate thought, that they really mean “he was an exceptional performer, but we found somebody else who was a better (cultural?) fit.”

      Reply ↓
    8. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I’ve been on the other side of it where they knew they wanted to fire someone, but wanted to make sure they had someone to take over immediately, so they had someone waiting in the wings before firing the current person. The person waiting in the wings was usually someone already known to the management and always got hired outside of the usual hiring process through HR.

      Reply ↓
      1. Overthinking It*

        So, it sounds like the first question is: did the firing necessitate the hiring, or did the hiring necessitate the firing? If the first, it might have been justified but badly handled. If the second, management is untrustworthy, gives no loyalty, and deserves none. Employees beware!

        Reply ↓
    10. Elizabeth West*

      That is exactly how it sounded to me too. This happened to me once — someone who used to work for a company I was employed with was in between jobs and contacted the boss to see if he had any openings. He told me, “Jane is coming back, you know her from when you were at Adjacent Business We Worked With. I’m giving her your job. You can either do our marketing, or not have a job. Your choice.”

      I chose the marketing and, as I know nothing about marketing, it did not work out.

      Reply ↓
    11. wordswords*

      Yeah, that was my gut instinct too. I’d like to be wrong! And very possibly I am! But that’s how it read to me, which is all the more reason they really need better clarity around this.

      Reply ↓
  3. Caramel & Cheddar*

    My sympathies, LW, I have been through this in a similar position to you and the lack of transparency and the poor communication sucks. I’d be looking to see if it’s part of a broader pattern in the company around things other than firing people, and if yes, I’d probably start polishing up my resume.

    Reply ↓
  4. oaktree*

    I’d like to go with badly flubbing the messaging, but hiring the replacement before the boss had even been fired suggests maybe some possible nepotism at play. You’re great, but I like my nephew better kind of thing.

    Reply ↓
      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Well, they could have just said that to save face if the guy actually was terrible at his job but they wanted to not let on that he was terrible and they were letting him get away with it. Note: I don’t think that’s the case, I agree that they wanted to hire that other person and had to fire him because of it. Which is pretty dang scummy.

        Reply ↓
        1. KaciHall*

          they’re still flubbing the message, then. because of their boss’ performance was that bad, there are probably aspects of it they shouldn’t continue with. if his reports are just told that the boss had great performance, they won’t stop the problematic things.

          Reply ↓
      2. Dust Bunny*

        I mean, I had a coworker ages ago who was great at day-to-day stuff but was also stealing supplies (serious supplies, not just post-its and pencils). Her performance was awesome. She was just also a thief.

        Reply ↓
    3. A Significant Tree*

      I think it’s both flubbing the message and (or because) they had already hired someone. Yes, people who are otherwise stellar can get fired for sudden reasons not known to the rest of the employees, but how often does that happen and also they somehow already have someone from the outside ready to take over the position? Hiring usually takes some time even if the person didn’t have to go through normal job-post/interview/negotiate channels. That they appear to have settled all of that prior to firing the boss makes it seem very much a planned replacement. Too bad they didn’t use some of that time to figure out how to reassure the employees that the decision wasn’t capricious.

      Reply ↓
      1. Margaret Cavendish*

        Yeah, I think this is a “both/and” situation. They wanted to get rid of him/ had already found a replacement (in whichever order that happened), AND they badly flubbed the messaging.

        Reply ↓
    4. toolegittoresign*

      It still could be that the boss was doing something bad and they wanted to make sure they had a replacement lined up before letting him go. It’s not great planning or messaging but there could be a need to avoid saying anything due to legal reasons. This happened at a place I worked where a top performing executive assistant was let go because it turned out she was stealing parking. They had to have a replacement ready before they let her go, and we were all very confused by their vague messages around it. I only found out because we had a mutual friend who she confessed to. Apparently they assigned parking pass administration to someone else 3 weeks before they fired her so they could stop the stealing while they hired her replacement.

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Sorry, how does one steal parking? Like, she was selling parking passes under the table and pocketing the money, or…?

        Reply ↓
      2. Kevin Sours*

        I’m always skeptical of “can’t say anything for legal reasons”. All too often that’s management wants to take the easy way out instead of taking responsibility for handling it. And if they want to take the “we’ll agree not to mention misconduct if you go quietly” approach to a firing it’s really on them if other employees get anxious and start job hunting as a result.

        Reply ↓
  5. Lexi Vipond*

    Maybe it’s just because Huw Edwards is in the news again, but it wouldn’t have occurred to me that this was anything other than ‘we found child porn in his computer’.

    Reply ↓
    2. Person from the Resume*

      The problem with egregious crime and wrongdoing on the old boss’s part is the fact that they hired his replacement already. That speaks to the firing being in the works for a while rather than a response to sudden discovery of wrongdoing.

      I reads to me more like they really wanted to hire new boss.

      Reply ↓
      1. ferrina*

        I’ve seen this happen a couple times- sudden need to let someone go due to something incredibly egregious- and usually the people won’t reiterate “it wasn’t a performance issue.” They’ll say “Unfortunately, we discovered something about their performance that meant we needed to part ways.” They’ll refuse to say what it was, but they will be very clear that it was a specific thing with this person. Even if they want to keep mum, they definitely don’t say “no, this person was great! they just didn’t have a future!” And the company is almost always left scrambling to fill the position (they don’t have a new hire on standby).

        While it’s technically possible that the grandboss flubbed the messaging and coincidentally happened to know someone who could fit the role and was magically available (I’ve seen it happen before), it’s definitely not the most likely scenario.

        Reply ↓
      3. Lexi Vipond*

        I suppose so – where I am a sacking would kind of imply gross misconduct, so I probably don’t realise how different it looks to me.

        But if it’s not something like that, I don’t understand the reason for all the ”It wasn’t because of his WORK. No, not THAT. We can’t tell you what it was, but it wasn’t his WORK’.

        You can even imagine how someone might think that was reassuring. ‘Everyone knows he was doing well, and we don’t want them worrying that that’s not what we think good work looks like. We need to make sure everyone knows the standard of his work was fine…’

        Reply ↓
    3. UKDancer*

      I’d not think of that straight away. I’d be more likely to think it was “my brother needs a job, who can we sack to find a position for him.”

      Reply ↓
    4. Antilles*

      I don’t see how something like that could be the case given that they had a replacement already lined up to sign a deal that very same day. Hiring timelines for manager-level positions typically take several weeks, if not months.
      If the problem is important enough to instantly fire him no questions asked, then they wouldn’t have someone already available. And you also wouldn’t want to just let the problem linger while for the vague, indefinite, and weeks/months long process of finding a replacement.

      Reply ↓
    5. Sloanicota*

      Bad enough someone’s good boss gets fired, I wouldn’t want to also assume with no evidence it’s something like this.

      Reply ↓
  6. Having a Scrummy Week*

    This has happened multiple times at my current company. I am still overcoming the trauma of my beloved manager disappearing 6 months ago. Morale is buried 6 feet underground at this point.

    I would give some serious thought to finding a new job. I know that is easier said than done; I’ve been trying to leave for at least a year now, but the job market is awful.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      Good for you on trying to get out! I once initiated a job search in January of 2020. Things were going pretty well until…..yeah. Needless to say, that job search lasted longer than a year.
      But it felt so, so good to finally be out and in a place that is much, much better!

      Reply ↓
      1. Having a Scrummy Week*

        Fingers crossed! Thankfully for the time being I was able to get moved to a much chiller team with little to no turnover. My very small company has had over 30 people leave or get fired since I started. It it disturbing.

        I am so glad you are in a better place now.

        Reply ↓
      2. MigraineMonth*

        I quit a job with nothing lined up in January of 2020. Not the ideal timing, maybe, but the fact that my stress level dropped after quitting–despite being unemployed in the middle of a global pandemic–is a pretty strong indication that was not the right job for me.

        Reply ↓
  7. sacados*

    Oof, yeah that is stressful. I had something similar happen at my last job. A coworker (not on my team but on a sister team that we basically handled projects in tandem with) was very suddenly let go. We got called in to a meeting with my team and our sister team, where the head of sister team gave us the news.
    (Which, side note, also was a bit gossip-inducing, when you see a last-minute meeting pop up on your calendar with no context, and everyone very quickly noticed that the attendees included all of both our teams EXCEPT for this one coworker…)

    They said it was a “difficult decision” and was “absolutely not a reflection on Coworker’s skill or passion for [industry]” but that there were some fit issues, some ways in which Coworker wasn’t working in the way that the team needed them to… Definitely a bit shocking and destabilizing, and it left all of us feeling some type of way for a while afterwards.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      Reading between the lines, there 100% was a performance or attitude issue that HR couldn’t tell you about. If your organization is generally functional, it’s very likely that the boss and/or HR was already talking to this coworker about these issues and you didn’t hear about it (or it was serious enough that they needed to take immediate action).

      This sounds like pretty standard practice in the above situation. I’m HR adjacent and privy to a lot of these conversations, and this is standard practice. It’s shocking and sucks to suddenly have to re-organize the work, but it’s actually the best way to handle a bad situation. (including the last minute meeting- you don’t want to set up a meeting in advance and have people guessing, you don’t want to set up a ruse meeting and have people feel tricked cuz then there will be even more paranoia, and you don’t want to pretend like it just didn’t happen when it will impact day-to-day work. So last minute meeting is the best of bad options.)

      Reply ↓
      1. sacados*

        Yeah, the subtext was that they were trying to acknowledge that this coworker is a skilled Teapot Creative Designer (for example), but their style of working just didn’t fit with the way that this company wanted Teapot Creative to operate. So it was still a “performance” issue, but not in the “this person is bad at their job” sense. (For context, the company I was at is somewhat known for a “we want all-stars” mentality and “sustained B-level performance is not enough and will get you a generous severance with our best wishes” so it wasn’t entirely surprising.)

        Reply ↓
        1. anonymous for this comment*

          That wording is extremely familiar. If this was Netflix, I can tell you from personal experience that sometimes,
          > “absolutely not a reflection on Coworker’s skill or passion for [industry]” but that there were some fit issues, some ways in which Coworker wasn’t working in the way that the team needed them to…
          is code for “is trans”.

          Reply ↓
          3. anonymous for this comment*

            To be clear, the familiar (Netflix?) wording isn’t the firing text, it’s
            > known for a “we want all-stars” mentality and “sustained B-level performance is not enough and will get you a generous severance with our best wishes”

            Reply ↓
    2. Green great dragon*

      I would read this as them being technically very good but problematic in other ways. Anything from feuding with multiple other teams or inappropriate gossiping to discovering they hadn’t done any documentation or filing for the last 5 years.

      Reply ↓
  8. Spooz*

    I would be willing to bet money that there was something going on in the background that they uncovered. Hiring sex workers on the company’s dime is exactly the kind of thing I was thinking. Embezzlement of company funds? Egregious drunken behaviour? Sexual harassment claim? Something that’s worthy of “one strike and you’re out”.

    Who knows, but it makes sense of the dichotomy of “excellent boss” and “sudden firing”. And also the weird “not actually explaining anything” from the higher ups.

    Reply ↓
  9. Debby*

    This happened to me; the new General Manager wanted to bring in a friend from his church. You should have seen the reference letter I got for when I applied for jobs! It was a really great one, and even said that I exceeded all expectations, but that the new General Manager wanted to bring in his own bookkeeper. Because they already had someone lined up before they fired your boss, I suspect they were fired so this person could be brought on board. So sorry you and your direct reports are going through this.

    Reply ↓
  10. Chairman of the Bored*

    In my experience a case like this is very likely to be a specific problem (aside from job performance) that management doesn’t want to talk about publicly.

    At a prior job we had a guy get disappeared out of the blue with no explanation. A few weeks later everybody learned that he got canned for coming in on the weekend and putting his children in the scrap metal dumpster to dig for and retrieve stainless scraps that he could recycle for money.

    Reply ↓
      1. Chairman of the Bored*

        I don’t think that was the case. He was a well-compensated engineer, his wife was a nurse, and they seemed to have a pretty good quality of life. Nice new cars, etc.

        However, they were into some internet “extreme frugality” group and I think he was doing it for clout with his online pals. “Look at this one weird child-endangering hack I used to make $40!” or similar.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ali + Nino*

        There are millions of parents all over the world who don’t even have two pennies to rub together…who would never dream of endangering their kids in this way. His actions don’t mean he was in need of money.

        Reply ↓
    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      I’ve separately seen something like this sudden firing go exactly two ways:

      1. There was a big Problem. If this is the case, you’re actually at a place of employment forward thinking enough to backfill swiftly because they know they have a Problem, and they need some sort of continuance plan. (That they know the person they hired well makes me “right eyebrow to ceiling”, but you never know) I’ve seen it once, and it involved the employer cooperating with local law enforcement while quietly and quickly hiring.

      2. There was a chance to bring in a highly desired person and therefore room needed to be made for them. In the case I saw, two people (one planned her whole wedding, one was frequently caught napping) who were really not carrying their weight were downsized, and replaced by one absolute rockstar (who was a known entity, but she also outworked the other two by miles)

      Reply ↓
      1. Kyrielle*

        Enh, if you’re pulling someone in to backfill and can’t post because you don’t want to alert the person you’re going to be firing/removing, that leaves you with reaching out to your network (those you’re closest to and most trust to keep quiet about it), which may also involve someone you know well.

        Reply ↓
        1. ScruffyInternHerder*

          No disagreement with that statement, Kyrielle. While I might have a right eyebrow to the ceiling, I can acknowledge that its just as likely that the employer leaned into their network to find someone on the down-low, just like an employee might lean into their network to job search.

          Reply ↓
    3. WS*

      Yeah, my grandfather used to take us to the tip to dig around for saleable things until my mother found out where he was taking us! He was absolutely not hurting for money.

      Reply ↓
  11. ItHappenedtoMe*

    It happened to me. I worked for a small company and reported directly to the CEO, I was the only person in my department/role and was at the VP level. My boss and I had a moral disagreement. He is conservative and religious I am not. My job was HR adjacent and there to develop people and make sure we were retaining and developing the top talent in our very niche industry.

    He wanted to hold a company wide get together in a state that could put our 3 pregnant women, 2 gay employees, and 1 employee mid transition in danger. I dug my heels in on a tense Friday meeting, I was fired on Monday.

    My work was amazing- he told me daily how much I changed his working life and the feel of the company. I was devastated because I truly respected him- we had a great relationship up until this point- he trusted me and I trusted him, I adored the culture I was helping to create, and it was the most high performing rockstars I have ever seen in one place.

    This was just a few months ago, so it is stillvery raw.

    Reply ↓
    1. Moira's Rose's Garden*

      I am very sorry this happened to you.
      I am also very sorry for the added insult to injury of being fired for advocating for the correct path.

      Reply ↓
      1. ItHappenedtoMe*

        Thank you. I know I did the right thing, I know I was right- but it hurts a lot. I am job hunting like crazy- but the market for my job isn’t like it was 2 yrs ago when I got that job. I am also struggling with how I answer the “and why did you leave your last company” question. I have never been fired in my life and in fact have only ever had one lay off! This is all so new. I am not a new to the workforce employee either. So add up- I got fired, I am 50, at the VP level– I am terrified I won’t be able to find a job at all.

        Reply ↓
        1. ScruffyInternHerder*

          Granted, I left on my own terms and they were apparently gobsmacked at my leaving, but the phrasing I used in my exit interview was that “my integrity was not for sale”.

          What was different about my “moral issue” was that it involved a third party’s professional licensure, NOT about the right of people to exist and be safe, so I hesitate to use that exact phrasing.

          I wish you the best, and its not the same as a paycheck but this random internet stranger over here is proud of you for standing your ground here!

          Reply ↓
        2. Zahra*

          Why did you leave your last company?

          “Inclusivity in the workplace is very important to me. Unfortunately, Company and I could not agree on issues related to inclusivity.”

          Obviously, it needs quite a bit of work, but I think that mentioning inclusivity and differences of opinion could be a good starting point, as long as you could find a good way to present it.

          Reply ↓
          1. ItHappenedtoMe*

            Thank you ,this is very similar to what I have been working on to make it sound natural. I would love to hear other people’s suggestions.

            Reply ↓
            1. Kit*

              “Company and I had an irreconcilable mismatch of values and culture. long pause I’ve learned that inclusivity is very important to me; can you tell me about how NewCompany has handled DEI initiatives?”

              You are not saying out loud that you were fired for advocating for marginalized people, but any reasonable interviewer will fill in the blanks.

              Reply ↓
            2. Ceanothus*

              How would you feel about leaning on the safety issues? “My former employer and I have different standards for safety in teambuilding events, and when I pushed for a safer option I was let go.”

              Reply ↓
              1. Ceanothus*

                “He’d chosen an option that was explicitly unsafe for pregnant employees and was not willing to offer an alternative.”

                Reply ↓
              2. CubeFarmer*

                I like that explanation. “While it was an outside chance that anything bad would happen, I was adamant that we didn’t need to risk it when safer more feasible options were available.” Sounds like you were looking out for the company, too (which, in a sense, you were.)

                Reply ↓
        1. MigraineMonth*

          I am so sorry that you’ve suffered for doing the right thing, but please don’t let it destroy your confidence! In the end, your boss demonstrated by his actions that he wasn’t the person that you thought he was.

          Far more importantly, you demonstrated by your actions that you are a person with integrity who holds to their values and stands in solidarity with others, even when you suffer consequences for it. Nothing your boss or old company did can ever take that away from you.

          You’re the kind of person most of us aspire to be. Thank you for what you did, and I’m so sorry you lost a loved job because of it.

          Reply ↓
    4. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Is this the wrong time and place to say that you’re my hero today for doing that, and you restored a tiny bit of my faith in humanity? Or that I wish I could include a standing-ovation gif? Or that I want to get a glass of wine and toast you but it’s too early? Probably.

      Reply ↓
      1. ItHappenedtoMe*

        Thank you. I know I did the right thing. I second guess myself and think if I just let it go I could still be there….

        Reply ↓
        1. Festively Dressed Earl*

          But would you want to be, knowing what you know? I’m guessing not.

          I bounced on an old job because of ethics, too (though not as cool as you), and ended up on an unexpected path to a better place. You’re shaky right now, but you changed the culture, and you fostered rockstars, and you made people’s lives better. You’re the common denominator. Good things will follow you. And you’d better come tell us about it when they do.

          Reply ↓
    7. Hroethvitnir*

      That sucks so much. I hope you can find a new job relatively quickly – it sounds like anyone would be lucky to have you!

      Having deep-held ethical convictions pushed like this is a harsh test, and I wish for you and your ex-employees it could have turned out differently.

      Reply ↓
    9. Lokifan*

      I’m so sorry but thank you for standing your ground to protect those employees! As a queer woman it’s very much appreciated.

      Reply ↓
  12. Rebecca*

    This recently happened at my company. They were a high performer but snapped and screamed at the wrong person. As much as my company loved this person, the govt wanted them out and we had no where else for them. The employee themselves asked for the real reason not to get out.

    What I am trying to say this isn’t always “Anti-Work Company Bad”. Sometimes the employee leaves you with no other option.

    Reply ↓
    1. MK*

      Maybe, but in that case the company needs to say something other than “not a good fit”; you can’t say that someone was a great performer but you decided to fire him anyway and expect the rest of your staff to give you the benefit of the doubt.

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      It sounds like in your case, people quickly figured out the real reason. The letter doesn’t describe any kind of provocation (that LW knows about). It’s possible that the boss behaved badly in the wrong meeting. But LW would probably know about existing tension somewhere. It’s really, really rare that a strong performer suddenly snaps out of nowhere- usually the mask has slipped before or the tension was already building.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rebecca*

        I only know because I was in the room when he was let go. The employee really did not want us to say anything to anyone about it.

        Reply ↓
    3. Observer*

      The employee themselves asked for the real reason not to get out.

      I’m sure they did. But that does not mean that the company CANNOT give people some information. And honestly, even though people are not entitled to details, in a case like this, they *are* entitled to understand the basics of what happened.

      Reply ↓
    5. MigraineMonth*

      I think the weird part isn’t that the company shared no information. That’s actually pretty classic: “After four years with Stark Inc, John Snow is leaving and we wish him well in his future endeavors” or whatever if you can make it sound like a resignation; “John Snow is no longer with Stark Inc” if you can’t.

      “John Snow’s performance is excellent, he’s done a superlative job, but we’ve just fired him because he doesn’t have a future at the company. Everyone please welcome his replacement Bran Stark!” is just a weird, weird way to handle it. If you’re going to leave the reasons vague, leave them vague!

      Reply ↓
  13. GrooveBat*

    Could be all the possibilities others have raised above, but it could also simply be that they wanted a different skill set that the former manager did not have.

    This happened to me at my last job. I took over a team after three previous leaders had failed. I’d been with the company for more than a dozen years at that point, and all they really needed was a competent person to bring stability and order to the traumatized staff. But I lacked a core skill set that ended up being extremely important to our investors, so they brought in someone who had those skills and laid me off. It was crappy of them to not find another place for me, but the company was struggling financially and I understood the decision.

    It would be interesting to get an update from OP in a few months to see whether the strategic direction of the department has changed significantly under the new leadership. If everything remains status quo, there’s probably another explanation they’re just not getting.

    Reply ↓
    1. MK*

      Whatever happened, the company really screwed up the delivery of the news. If it’s something as innocuous as needing a different skill set, I don’t understand why they didn’t simply say so.

      Reply ↓
    2. JustKnope*

      In that case, the right thing to do is for the company to manage the guy out and let him provide a regular 2-week notice! On the spot firing does not seem to match a skill set mismatch.

      Reply ↓
      1. A Person*

        Agreed, although perhaps the company is the type that always assumes the worst about people who lose their jobs and won’t let them keep working due to “risk”.

        Reply ↓
      2. GrooveBat*

        We don’t really know whether it was “on the spot” because we only have OP’s perspective. Who knows what was happening behind the scenes.

        Reply ↓
  14. MK*

    “Not a good fit” is a ridiculous reasoning for someone who sounds like has been working there some time, and was apparently fired without warning. Even if they legitimately needed someone else for this role, the transition should have been smoother. I would assume either that the boss was caught doing something really, really bad (in which case their delivery is completely tonedeaf) or they wanted to hire this new person and dumped him (again, they could and should have done this more smoothly).

    Reply ↓
  15. Spicy Tuna*

    Agree that it was handled poorly, but there are all sorts of legitimate reasons why someone who is a good performer is let go and no one can divulge why. My brother had a sales assistant who was abruptly let go. My brother was told not to talk to her and if she called him for any reason, not to engage. He was annoyed because he wanted to know if she made errors and left any messes he needed to be aware of (she didn’t). He works in a regulated industry and the company just said, “don’t ask and don’t worry about it”

    Reply ↓
  16. Glad I'm Not in the Rat-Race Any More.*

    If they’re truthful about having a replacement accept the night before Boss was let go, yeah, this sounds capricious and everyone at the company has a right to be worried. Especially if the new hire turns out to be nepotistic.

    If there isn’t really a replacement in the pipeline, then either 1) Boss was about to whistle-blow, 2) Boss got caught doing something so unethical upper mgt doesn’t even want to mention it even as a warning to others, or 3) Boss flounced because of a personality problem and upper management doesn’t want the reason to come out. But beware lest, as reports, you are tarnished with the same brush.

    But yeah, if Grandboss doesn’t want to give even the semblance of a vague overview of what happened, rather than just general reassurances, the company is gonna find itself minus at least 3 more employees that they don’t have replacements for in the pipeline, because their employees’ bills require that they find a new job before they find themselves surprise! suddenly unemployed.

    Polish your resume. This smells like last week’s fish.

    Reply ↓
  17. Manager*

    My predecessor was fired for getting into a verbal altercation with the CEO. I believe they made threats as well. It was only a small group of senior VPs who witnessed it (including my boss), and the CEO fired them on the spot. It was messaged to junior employees as “a bad culture fit” because they didn’t want to get into the drama of it. I do think it would be good for them to understand that if you yell and threaten the CEO, you will get fired. However, on the other hand, that probably should just be something you can be reasonably assumed to know.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      But people found out what really happened. And that’s pretty common- when you get to mid-level and senior-level people suddenly being fired, there’s often someone that knows why. People find out. It’s really rare for a mid/senior level to be let go with no one knowing why. I’d be curious what the grandboss’s demeanor after the event was- if he seems happy, then it’s likely a nepo hire. If he’s more serious than he was, then it’s likely a sign that he’s still cleaning up a mess that he didn’t know was there.

      *It’s more common that a junior level person or person without reports is let go without anyone knowing why. That’s because less people have insight into their work, and often less people are impacted by their mistakes. When the fired person was a manager, often the direct reports know something or suspect something. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a manager let go without someone knowing something.

      Reply ↓
  18. Jerry*

    I was in this situation a few times and for most of my life had thought that is is how things are done in workforce: noone will care to explain such decisions. Why should they? I was surprised to find out some of managers and HR actually do explain.

    Reply ↓
      1. Kevin Sours*

        How a company treats other people employed there is a the best indicator of how they will treat you. It really is your business if your coworkers are fired capriciously.

        Reply ↓
      2. Irish Teacher.*

        I agree, but the specific wording here is, to my mind, worse than telling people, because “he was a great performer, absolutely excellent and we definitely did not fire him because of any performance issues, but he wasn’t the right fit for our company” raises so many questions. As well as nepotism, my other thought would be that the company was in financial difficulty and they found somebody cheaper, but at least one person in the comments here has said they’d assume he was accessing child porn.

        It basically just says “there is a big story here, so big we can’t tell you it, but we will make it clear this firing was not for the usual reasons.”

        There are so many things they could say that would be better than this. Even just “X is no longer with the firm. Please direct all enquiries to Y, who is now joining us” would be better, leaving open the possibility it was his choice, but “all we are telling you is that he was fired and that it wasn’t due to his poor work” is going to raise questions.

        Reply ↓
        1. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah, not being given a reason is pretty normal. Being told that the most common and least alarming reason for being fired (performance) is *definitely* not the case here, *it’s something else* is alarming. As is having someone there to take over immediately.

          There are plenty of bland partial-truths that could have been trotted out without getting into details. Screaming at the CEO? “Differences of opinion.” Repeated insubordination? “Diverging vision for the future of the company.” Decided to harness the power of Q-Anon for fundraising? “No longer fit our culture.” Pretty much any

          “Doesn’t have a future here” is… not one of the commonly-accepted bland ones for a reason. It’s way too ominous.

          Reply ↓
    2. Cinnamon Stick*

      I’ve been called into conference rooms or Zoom calls and told me upper management that someone was no longer working for the company. No explanation given. It’s disconcerting.

      In one case, I saw it coming, but I don’t know if the person was ever put on a PIP or what the ultimate reason was.

      Reply ↓
  19. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

    Do you believe your grandboss’s assurances that your job is safe? I wouldn’t. Maybe the new boss will want to bring in their own people. It all looks too uncertain. Maybe they’re in the process of hiring your replacement, OP

    Reply ↓
      1. Tally miss*

        At my old job, people who managed 2 person teams were always at risk because adding 2 people to the skip level boss doesn’t seem like a big deal. It always took them a while to notice that those managers did a whole lot of valuable work, not just managed 2 people.

        Bosses got fired for trying to protect their teams because they knew the value of each person but leadership only heard that the boss disageed with them.

        Reply ↓
  20. LCH*

    i worked for a law firm supporting three associates. one of them was abruptly fired (abrupt to the lower staff). i thought she was great, the paralegals she worked with were upset to the point of crying. i have no idea what the reason was; maybe she had screwed up a case, maybe she wasn’t moving quickly enough, maybe a client had complained, or maybe it was because she was the only non-white attorney at the practice. who knows! but it was definitely unsettling.

    Reply ↓
  21. Anon4This*

    I just had a very similar situation happen at my organization. Leadership was shocked to find out that people were nervous about their own jobs after a major shakeup that was transparently just to get rid of someone the director had personal beef with. No performance issues, no cultural fit, just a “I don’t like your face” type firing. Some of the low-level staff have a call with a union organizer scheduled, so we’ll see how that goes. It won’t help our coworker who got let go, but at least it might protect us.

    Reply ↓
      1. Sordid*

        I saw this happen recently with a friend’s boss who was allowing his employees to make requests/express concerns. Management was worried that he was encouraging unionization. The leaves haven’t settles yet, but they definitely fired the wrong person, the folks stepping up to fill the gap are now even more interested in unionizing. /liberal glee/

        Reply ↓
  22. Also Laura Actually!*

    Sounds like a regular day at an advertising/content agency to me. Happened all the time at all levels where I used to work, and still does.

    Reply ↓
  23. Pizza Rat*

    This is baffling on one hand and suspicious on the other. Having someone ready to step in means they’ve been preparing this change for a while.

    It’s terrible messaging. While the company doesn’t have to explain the reasons, saying it wasn’t performance based is only going to arouse curiosity and encourage gossip.

    I’d be looking for a way out.

    Reply ↓
  24. HugeTractsofLand*

    Oof, I hope we get an update for this one. It’s so understandably concerning! But at least it seems like OP might get an answer, since grandboss made a point of checking in with them.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      Yes, definitely want an update for this one! I strongly suspect a nepo hire- very curious who this person they had on standby was.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hroethvitnir*

      Yes! Desperately want to know. Nepotism hire replacement, or at best non-nepotistic but highly desirable candidate they’d push out ex-boss for seems the most plausible explanation.

      I feel for OP, because even if you didn’t feel under threat, you also have an unknown quantity abruptly replacing someone proven to be competent and supportive. I would appreciate as an IC having OP between me and them, but they don’t have that!

      Reply ↓
  25. Coffee Please*

    Jeez! I imagine he wasn’t actually an exceptional employee and he may have signed an NDA upon his dismissal so perhaps they can’t say anything. When I fired someone, I wasn’t permitted to say anything about the reason(s) he was let go and also that he was on a PIP and was not successful, just that he was no longer working there and that I wish him all the best.

    Reply ↓
  26. Ruby*

    My program manager just kicked me off his program for being a bad fit, personality wise. I saw this coming months ago, and asked to be moved, but there was no place to move me. So we got to this point. It happens.

    Reply ↓
  27. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    The sudden firing on its own could indeed be they just discovered something egregious he was doing. However, having a replacement lined up to take over immediately, means it wasn’t a sudden decision at all. Whatever they didn’t like about him, they tolerated until they could replace him without missing a day.

    imo, the most likely explanation is nepotism: they needed a job for a bf or relative of someone in C-suite.

    If he clashed on say business policy direction, I wouldn’t have expected being fired to come as a total surprise to him. Maybe if he supported DEI and the TPTB didn’t or he was not religious/ hetero etc and this is important to them, then that could be the “bad fit” and they kept him on only until they found someone like themselves. Like the poster above, he might not have dreamed his supposedly decent bosses would fire him for this.

    Whatever. Unless you get a satisfactory explanation asap, I’d suggest a very serious job hunt, because you could be the next target if you don’t know what to avoid doing.

    Reply ↓
    1. TheBunny*

      This is my read too.

      If he was downloading child porn on the work computer they wouldn’t have kept him there until they found someone else.

      I’d polish my resume.

      Reply ↓
  28. Kevin Sours*

    One of the constant things I see from management is the idea that not saying anything is an will be the end of the story. Especially if they go with “we can’t say anything”. That isn’t realistic. And it isn’t fair. Because how a company handles things around discipline and lay offs is *absolutely* relevant to all of the employees at a company. Unfortunately you can’t really trust management to do the right thing or tell the truth. So you have to make decisions based on the information you have available.

    In my experience when official sources of information are lacking, people don’t just shrug an move on. They fill the void with speculation and rumor. So in cases like this if there *is* a legitimate reason for the move people will respond as if there isn’t because that reason wasn’t made apparent.

    Reply ↓
  29. I wear my sunglasses at night*

    OK I swear this could be a letter written by an employee of a vendor in a rather niche* hobby with a surprisingly strong online following**

    Anyway I’ve worked in places where management never even tells you that people leave, let alone why (even if they leave for normal, fine reasons like a new job). Surprise, those places fostered poor morale, suspicion, poor employee satisfaction, etc!
    So, my sympathies, LW.

    * an actually niche hobby, not like how half the letter writers and open thread writers are like “I’m in a niche field” and it turns out they’re accountants in manufacturing

    **I don’t actually care what your guesses are

    Reply ↓
    1. Having a Scrummy Week*

      No guesses on the niche hobby, but my company is terrible about announcing departures.

      Half the departures aren’t even announced, so you find out 6 months later when you try messaging the person and it goes nowhere. They also act like the person who left never existed. Like if I say something in reference to “The documentation that Jenny used to handle when she was here,” it’s like some horrible sin that I even mentioned her name. Oh, and they also never rehire for the position, so you have PMs/BAs each handling 4 major projects at once. Talk about a super weird, demoralizing culture. What do they think they are achieving?

      Reply ↓
        1. Having a Scrummy Week*

          It makes me sad that there is more than one company that is this messed up (even though I know that there are many, many)

          Reply ↓
    2. Rocket Raccoon*

      Except I know exactly who you are talking about, and I’m not even into pens. The people at the company certainly know what went down, even if mgmt. didn’t tell them.

      Reply ↓
  30. Beth*

    It sounds like the messaging on this was really messed up.

    We recently had a firing on my team that was similarly mishandled. It was done while my manager was out of town, so her boss was the one to break the news to the team–and she made it sound like it was a layoff for financial reasons. By the time my manager got back a week later, half the team was lowkey job hunting. She made a serious point of clarifying what happened and reassuring everyone about the company’s finances…but I’m still lowkey expecting that we’ll lose another person or two to “once I started looking, I found this really cool opportunity” type outcomes.

    LW, if your team doesn’t seem fully reassured and settled by now, I think you should assume you’re at high risk for turnover. Bad messaging around departures has serious consequences.

    Reply ↓
  31. Justin D*

    Management firings/resignations are oftentimes handled differently. Even if they’re really good at their jobs maybe they ran afoul of someone’s vision or strategy or did something that the owner didn’t like personally. Or it’s a nepotism/trust thing,7 who knows.

    And public proclamations about their excellent work don’t necessarily hold a lot of weight. Maybe their boss is trying to throw them off the scent or make sure their team doesn’t pick up on the trouble and start slacking or leaving. Maybe they don’t trust the manager and don’t want them to sabotage anything before the firing actually happens.

    Managers just play a different game than the rest of us.

    Reply ↓
  32. Survivor's Guiltee*

    The final straw that got me to leave my last job was most of a team being fired, even though they
    arguably deserved it. The way that the company handled it fit into disturbing patterns I’d already noticed, including but not limited to terminating employees with neither warning before nor announcement after. Arbitrary firings are not good for morale, and it’s quite possible to make a justified firing look like an arbitrary one by bungling the process or messaging like that.

    Reply ↓
  33. Anne Bananne*

    My first thought is that they found out he was job hunting (hence no future at the company) and wanted to fire and replace him before he could quit.

    Reply ↓
  35. I'm great at doing stuff*

    I experienced this happening three times at a previous jobs. The firings were 100% due to internal office politics. And yes, in at least one of the instances, the CEO had someone they preferred on standby to immediately go into the role.

    It can be very jarring, especially if it was a supervisor that people liked. In my experience, the employees went through real shock and grieving.

    Just be there for them and be ready to support them through the transition. And don’t expect them to get on board with the new boss right away. They should be professional of course, but getting through the big change will be hard.

    The book Managing Transitions by William and Susan Bridges was really helpful to me during these and other times of change in an organization.

    Reply ↓
  36. Quinalla*

    There was someone at my work once who was seemingly fired for no reason. I understood they needed to show some discretion, but the reasoning was so vague, I went to my boss and was like “Is the office closing? Do I need to worry about my job? WTH is going on?” he confided in me the real reason, not going into all the gory details, dude was moonlighting which is a HUGE NO in my industry and not just moonlighting himself, but utilizing another employee to get work done on my company’s time. It was a HUGE deal, but they didn’t want to tell everyone what happened. I kind of get that, but also, they probably should have just told people, most everyone found out through the rumor mill eventually anyway.

    Reply ↓
  37. not nice, don't care*

    I am currently watching badmin at my workplace and my partner’s drive off many dedicated ethical employees, with no plan B. Makes no sense, operationally or interpersonally, but the fallout on remaining staff is dire.

    Reply ↓
  38. HonorBox*

    I’d go back to grandboss and say something like the following: You’ve indicated that it was about “fit” not about performance. While I don’t need to know all of the details, I do think we have a couple of people on my team really worried about how they might be evaluated in the future. I’m concerned that they might leave and I hate to think about that because they are exceptional performers. Is there anything more involved that you can share with me related to the “why” he was fired? I want to reassure people but can’t do so because the outcome just doesn’t match his performance.

    Reply ↓
  39. Nosy*

    A former job of mine let go of an employee this way. She was well-liked and a hard worker. She was a team lead that oversaw a nepo hire (CEO’s son). She didn’t have managerial authority over him but she did have the standing to critique his work. Apparently she gave a critique that the CEO didn’t like and she was out the next day. I remember my manager taking my peer coworker and me out for coffee and telling us to tread lightly when interacting with the CEO’s son.

    Reply ↓
  41. A Simple Narwhal*

    Years ago I got hired onto a small team at Oldjob around the same time as another person, and a few months in he was suddenly let go. It seemed like he was doing fine so it made me incredibly nervous that I was potentially going to be let go too.

    I had a meeting with my manager shortly after and asked if they had any feedback on my performance so far. Immediately reading between the lines they told me that my former coworker acted horribly in front of a client – he fell asleep in a meeting with them and then made inappropriate jokes about the client’s culture and ethnicity, to the client. So unless I also was going to have egregious behavior in front of a client, I had nothing to worry about.

    So yea, someone who seemed like a good employee acted like a nutjob behind the scenes and (reasonably) was let go for it. The main difference is my boss told me that he got fired due to his own bad behavior, and didn’t let me panic that anyone could be let go for seemingly no reason.

    I’m not saying that the boss definitely acted badly behind the scenes, but the boss has a duty to clarify that nothing shady happened, otherwise I think OP and their employees absolutely have a right to be worried about their own jobs.

    Reply ↓
  42. KiatheeHRlady*

    As HR, I take issue with the way the termination was announced. In my (humble) opinon its never a right decision to announce to employee’s who arent in managment (even then you should used discrection) that a person has been terminated, let alone tell them the person was not a “good fit”. As complex as management can be, changs happen all the time. its normal form the meployee’s to feel uneasy about the changes. I agree with Allison, you may have to reassure your staff all while getting a little reassurance of our own from upermanangement.

    Reply ↓
    1. Kevin Sours*

      I think you’ve misread Alison’s advice here. Because OP is *not* getting reassurance from upper management and she says:
      “You can’t credibly or ethically reassure your employees that their jobs are safe unless you have a better understanding of what happened”

      And the thing is whether or not you announce a termination unless your employees are really stupid they’re going to eventually notice it happens. And they’ll want to know why it happened. Lacking accurate an accurate understanding of what happened people will come to their own possibly inaccurate conclusions. It’s not reasonable to expect people to react with “management doesn’t want to tell me what happened so everything must be fine”.

      Reply ↓
    2. Charlotte Lucas*

      I think this was a case where the employees put 2 and 2 together. But I agree that the messaging should have been a bland, “Wakeen is no longer with The Teapot Company. Please welcome Jane as Head of Rice Sculpting.”

      Reply ↓
  43. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    Without a real reason there is 0 reason for grand boss to talk to the Jr. people . Who would believe him anyway?

    Reply ↓
  44. NurseThis*

    I once lost a terrific government nursing job because the site manager wanted to give the job to her niece. It can and does happen. I’ve had a few jobs since then (now retired) but that weighed on me for the rest of my work life, that factors out of your control can come cannonballing out of the sky.

    Reply ↓
  46. JFC*

    This basically happened to me a few years ago. OldJob found out I had conversations with a direct competitor and showed me the door immediately, even though I hadn’t been offered a job with the competitor and wasn’t sure I would take one if offered. I always had the highest of performance reviews, nothing negative on my personnel record, etc. They had pulled a similar act with others who had moved to this competitor, although in their cases they at least waited until the person had accepted a job there. If OP is in an industry where people get similar feelings about these things, that may be the case here.

    If that’s not it, my guess is it was something illegal or poor personal judgment that didn’t have to do with their work performance but reflected so badly on the company that they felt they had no other options. I’m thinking something like public misbehavior, problematic social media posts, etc. Something so egregious they wanted to cut ties right away.

    This was probably in the works for a few days before the announcement was made since they had somebody ready to go so quickly. That may have been someone they had talked to before about this job or a similar role, or someone they knew they could entice. It doesn’t make the situation any less messy, though.

    Reply ↓
  49. mlem*

    I have to say, “explicitly said this had nothing to do with performance or work quality (they reiterated that both of those were exceptional) but really just that it wasn’t a great fit and they just didn’t see him having a future here” along with having a new hire lined up actually screams to me that they fired him for illegal or potentially illegal reasons (sexuality, gender identity, religion, political expression, things like that) — something that made them dislike him as a person but willing to keep him working until they could slot someone new in. If so, they’re never going to admit to the real reason because they know it’s damaging to them.

    Reply ↓
  50. AC*

    This sounds like my old job at a privately held (but large) business. Even very senior leaders were let go with no advance notice because the powers that be decided they wanted someone different in the role.
    I was a superstar who didn’t want to take the risk that I’d be one of those no-longer-favored people and left. Those who remained tended to be sycophants or those who were just waiting for their number to come up in the future (but enjoying the ride in the meantime).

    Reply ↓
  51. Forest Hag*

    This is very similar to something that happened at my previous company just recently. There was a high-level director that was “laid off” very suddenly, and basically walked out by HR right after the news was delivered. We had a new unit head, who, by all accounts, seemed to get along with the director just fine, but shortly after this person moved into their role, they let the director go. The message from executive leadership was that it was a “reduction in force,” but then his exact position was posted 2 weeks later, and someone else was shuffled in. I talked with my boss about how it affected me and my team, and all he would say was “don’t worry about it” and “you’re fine”….but it sure didn’t feel that way. From then on out, there was this lingering anxiety in our department that had not been there before – if someone was let go (which did not happen often), it was usually quite obvious that they needed to go, and unless it was something totally egregious, they would transition them out. This particular director seemed to be effective and well-liked, and it was just as much of a surprise to him as it was to the rest of us. It really made us worried that the new unit head would just axe any one of us (or whole teams) if they felt like it.

    And that is one of the many reasons why that organization is now my FORMER workplace.

    Reply ↓
  52. Natebrarian*

    I’m really surprised that they actually said he was fired. Usually the language I see is “he’s no longer with the organization.” Otherwise you’re revealing HR information and putting the org. at risk of a lawsuit.

    Reply ↓
  53. ParseThePotatoes*

    If they expect you to do the work of reassuring people and stopping panicked job hunts, they need to give you the tools to do that with.

    This is the key point of the entire post.
    You don’t need the full details of what went wrong, but you do need something, to reassure you. As it exists now, your grandboss and company head are asking you to spend your political capital to repeat their promises that everything is hunky-dory – so if (or more likely, when) things turn out differently, it’s your reputation that will take the hit, not theirs.

    In the absence of details, people will assume the worst – and justifiably so. After all, if it were Poor Performance (or some other longer-term problem), they wouldn’t be saying his work was incredible; if it was Criming on Company Time (or some other immediate ‘get this person out of here’ problem), they wouldn’t be lining up a permanent replacement before the seat was even cold.

    (My random guesses would be that the boss was fired for a friend/family of the CEO, or for a discriminatory reason they don’t want to put in writing, even if it’s technically legal).

    Reply ↓
  54. Tony Howard*

    People get fired all the time for a variety of reasons . In a normal, professional company the announcement will be made like this: “John Smith left to pursue other opportunities; we wish him well in future endeavors”. The fact that your company botched such a simple task tells me it is a waste of time to ask for further clarification (matters of termination are notoriously private), but it would not be a waste of time to start looking for other opportunities!

    Reply ↓
  55. Pretty As A Princess*

    So my spouse’s C-suite level boss was egressed in a similar manner on a Friday and then the new guy started on Monday. Well, *everyone* knows that when the neighbor’s husband moves out on Friday and a new guy moves in on Monday, they didn’t meet at Saturday bingo. But, lips were sealed.

    We knew he got a buyout when they axed him. He took a little vacation, laid low, and then resurfaced and called my spouse for lunch after the severance period expired. Tea spilled, receipts subsequently verified: Dude fell on his sword advocating w/CEO and the rest of the C-suite on behalf of an employee from an underrepresented group when this person was being treated in an unethical manner. There was nothing provable legally, but he absolutely had the high ground and made a stand on it. He made the stink loud enough to basically force the CEO’s hand and get the company to give the person the benefit/recognition they were rightfully entitled to. The price was his job, for daring to challenge the CEO. He got shown the door with severance on condition of not talking to anyone about it for X period of time. So he went quietly, having fought the good fight.

    He figured that fighting for that one person and dying on that hill was worth it. The job loss, the not being able to answer the speculation until the clock ran out. (And even then, he didn’t broadcast it to everyone – but it’s an industry where everyone knows everyone, and the people who need to know, know.) No one is perfect, but in the words of Omar Bell, “A man got to have a code.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Jean (just Jean)*

      Your spouse’s C-suite level boss sounds like a solid person who lives out his values. I hope he finds a satisfying new job.

      Thank you for posting this and boosting our faith in humanity!

      Reply ↓
  56. TheBunny*

    Egads that’s awful.

    Do you have out of work contact with this (now former) boss? If you do I’d try to connect with him, ask him how he’s doing and let him lead the conversation regarding him leaving… you may be able to get info that reassures you or has you brushing up your resume.

    But… and I can’t stress this enough… you can reach out to see if he’s OK but any conversation about what happened needs to be led by him.

    Reply ↓
  57. Religious Nutter*

    To me, the fact that they had someone lined up to replace him and fired him as soon as his replacement accepted says everything that needs to be said. This wasn’t about your boss, this was about hiring someone they liked. It could maybe be that they liked the replacement for business reasons, or maybe not. It kind of doesn’t matter.

    If this is how they treat “excellent employees”, then they don’t deserve excellent employees. I’d be looking to get out of there.

    Reply ↓
  58. Overthinking It*

    Perhaps an interpersonal conflict with one of the higher-ups. An affair with. . .somebody? Or maybe dating or a friendship with one of their children that the superior didn’t approve of? or expressing opinions in a way they felt were. . .disrespectful? Or just expressing disagreement – personal or business matters – at all? This is just horrible.

    Reply ↓
  59. Purple Cat*

    Wow.
    I can think of any number of incidents that would cause an otherwise great performer to be fired on the spot, but the fact they already hired his replacement throws all of those out the window.
    You should be worried, your team should be worried. And if I were you, I’d call your boss and ask him what happened. I’d love to hear his version.

    Reply ↓
  60. Lake (they/them)*

    A lot of people in the comments section have been saying either the fired person must have done something egregious, or this firing is a sign of worse things to come for everyone. my prior job did something very similar to this, and I can tell you that it can be both! my boss was fired for reasons that were not initially disclosed, but we later discovered involved theft, getting high at work, and just generally not doing his job. It started becoming a worse and worse place to work, and multiple people were fired out of nowhere, including me :)

    Reply ↓

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