my “empath” coworker is kind of a jerk

by Alison Green on September 16, 2024

A reader writes:

For about half a year now, I’ve had a colleague (let’s call him Dave) who has a few strange quirks. He tends to look for my reaction at a lot of things other people say, and then comment on the way I react. For example: another coworker or my boss makes a joke and I laugh (while others are laughing too) and Dave looks at me, points and says, “Oh, you sure are laughing” or ‘“Look how hard Jane is laughing.” Honestly it makes me very self-conscious about smiling/laughing in the office, even though before that I was really happy/felt lucky that we had such a jovial, fun environment to work in.

He also has some other quirks such as never washing his dishes (to the point we have to put his coffee in a paper cup instead of a glass one, because he will leave dishes to literally rot on his desk) and making mean-spirited jokes about my boss, who is currently going through cancer treatment. (Not that it would be fine if he wasn’t going through cancer treatment, but it just feels like he’s kicking him when he’s down.)

On top of this, Dave recently “came out” as an empath. He explained that it meant that he feels emotions much more deeply than other people do and thus gets overwhelmed easily. He is absent very often due to things such as not having slept well or having a cold, things other people still come in for.

Is there anything I could possibly do to make him stop making these comments without making the office an uncomfortable place to be in? Should I tell my boss or grandboss about these things I’ve noticed? Or should I just let it be? He’s very chatty, so I’ve had to have headphones in almost constantly during work, which in turn makes it harder to quickly communicate with coworkers.

There is also a chance I am just overreacting or don’t understand it. Full disclosure, I am autistic, so I don’t really understand a lot of social norms. Anyhow, thank you.

Ugh, Dave. I think you’re understanding him just fine. He sounds like a garden-variety jerk whose image of himself (as an empath!) doesn’t fit his actual behavior.

I wonder if you can use his “empath” self-image to get him to stop commenting on your reactions to things. For example: “I know you’ve mentioned you’re empathetic and care a lot about people’s feelings, so can I ask you to stop commenting on my laughing or other reactions I have? It makes me self-conscious, which I know you don’t want to do.”

And when he makes a mean-spirited joke about your boss, feel free to let your response illustrate how it’s landing:
* “Ouch, that was mean.”
* “Whoa, that’s not deserved.”
* “Yikes.”

For what it’s worth, “empath” is generally used to mean someone who has a higher degree of sensitivity to the emotions of others. It doesn’t mean “colds and lack of sleep are harder on me than they are on other people.” It also doesn’t mean “I feel my own emotions much more deeply than other people do.” If anything, it sounds like Dave might be the opposite of an empath.

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{ 414 comments }

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  1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    Dave is not an empath. Dave is a jerk.

    An empath understands others without having personally experienced the situation, i.e. knows cancer treatment is hard on someone without having undergone cancer treatment. The fact Dave is making mean spirited jokes about boss who is undergoing cancer treatment is absolutely not something an empath would do.

    Dave is looking for an excuse to justify being a jerk. Call him out on his bs.

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    1. Antilles*

      My cynical assumption is that Dave is simply taking advantage of therapy language to absolve himself from being a jerk and get away with stuff. No no, see, I’m an empath, I can’t help it!

      It’s also unclear to me how being attuned to emotions would prevent Dave from taking his dirty cup back to the kitchen.

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      1. I Just Can't*

        This right here, Dave is trying to weaponize a concept associated with healing as a way to manipulate others. Call him on it and set boundaries or nothing with change. I would take AAM’s advice and when he says something cruel about someone going through cancer treatment make a comment “wow. . . .that’s not very empathic, even I can imagine how he feels right now” or something to that line.

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          1. Curious*

            When I think of an empathy, I think of the TOS episode “The Empath,” where Gem had the ability to take the injuries of others into herself, and was used by the Vians as a representative of her people, who they would save only if she was willing to sacrifice her life to save another.

            somehow, I doubt Dave would pass that test.

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            1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

              If I recall correctly, intergalactic terrorist and black sheep of Surak’s whole clan Sybok was a projective empath who would force everyone within touch range to have his very bad day.

              It might not be nice to say “Smooth move, Sybok, you just made Sulu cry” but it would be somewhat satisfying to think.

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      2. Middle Aged Lady*

        Maybe he feels the emotions of the bacteria that get washed away as the cup gets cleaned. /s
        Dave is a jerk. Empathetic people don’t go around telling everyone they are empathetic. As others have said, they respond with empathy, which Dave is obviously not doing.

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      3. Worldwalker*

        Well, you see, that cup is very invested in being just as it is now, with the coffee residue and all. It knows that if Dave takes it to the kitchen, it’ll get washed, and it’s very upset about that. Dave can sense the overwhelming wave of emotions from the cup, and he just can’t bring himself to do something that would make the cup feel worse.

        Wait, cups don’t care if they’re washed? Then I’ve got nothing. Well, nothing except that Dave is a slob and a jerk. But that’s pretty obvious.

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    2. MechE*

      You’ve just described the word empathy. Empathy is a thing exhibited by normal humans. An empath is not a thing. An “empath” is an attention seeker who has attached themselves to the latest trend.

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      1. Snarkus Aurelius*

        Correct. I’d add that an empath is someone who wants you to think they have some special skill or talent that not everyone has like John Edward or some other psychic trying to take advantage of people.

        It’s not true, and South Park did a good job of explaining why.

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      2. Rex Libris*

        Or the ship’s counselor on Star Trek the Next Generation. I’ve often wondered how much that contributed to empaths being a “thing” in our cultural zeitgeist.

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        1. MsM*

          I do joke that my husband must be part-Betazoid: he is very easily affected by other people’s emotions, particularly if they’re unhappy. But he never calls attention to it.

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      3. Highly sensitive person*

        Ehh I disagree. I’m highly sensitive to the emotions of others- if someone in the room is crying after receiving bad news, I will feel sad and cry with them even if the news has nothing to do with me. It’s a symptom of ptsd in my case. I don’t think it describes Dave at all but it’s not just a “trend” in my case, it’s an actual problem that I am trying to change in therapy.

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        1. Double A*

          Yeah, a lot of heightened empathy is a trauma response. And it can be debilitating in some cases, because you’re not actually there for the person whose feelings you’re absorbing because you’re overwhelmed by your own emotional response. Which isn’t good for anyone really. And definitely something to work on in therapy; hope that is going well for you!

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        2. Bob*

          So you’re responding to a stimulus due to trauma, you’re not magically picking up on another person’s emotions better than anyone else because you’re special

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          1. Hamster Manager*

            Plenty of people pick up other people’s emotions and/or feel their own much more strongly than other people. It’s not always rooted in trauma, lots of neurodivergent people experience this. It is always a PITA and makes daily life harder, please don’t be so dismissive.

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            1. JSPA*

              This… used to be considered a human norm, no? People fall to tears and rending of cloth over each others’ grief, and exult with their delight, in texts going back to Gilgamesh, the Torah, the Edda. Many cultures still make space for (actual or performative) empathy.

              I suspect we’re a bit blunted by the sheer amount of second hand experience we consume.

              None of which has anything to do with the letter writer’s problem coworker, who seems to be a badly-self-regulated glassbowl, in ways that have nothing to do with sharing emotion.

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              1. Frosty*

                People can experience too much empathy – some people have a hypervigilance to other people’s emotions, which can be rooted in trauma. If you grew up in an unstable home or where your parent(s) looked to you (a child) for emotional support, or if you had someone in the family with explosive anger/abuse – knowing if mom or dad was feeling happy or sad (just tiny minute fluctuations) could be a literal life saver for some.
                Then folks grow up and still have this hyper-awareness even when it no longer serves them (and it’s not always related to childhood, it could develop as an adult).
                It’s exhausting and painful.

                Also, sometimes people will use “empath” not in that they feel other people’s emotions but they can read them correctly and with more subtle cues. Empathy as a concept and as a word is thrown around a lot for things these days.

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                1. Hannah Lee*

                  ^ This!

                  And the carry over of hyper-vigilance to other people’s emotions, needing to center other’s emotions for safety from childhood can have negative impacts in a work setting.

                  For example I spent years in my early career thinking my ability to work with difficult people was a feather in my cap. In my mind, it was a positive that I could deal with difficult people … bosses who were volatile or self-centered or outright bullies. I was hyper-aware of their moods, knew what would set them off and how to avoid doing it, when to approach them just so about XYZ and when to set it aside and wait for a better time. Sure, many people do that when working with others, but I was really really good at it and spent much of my day navigating that (or at least that’s what I told myself) To the point that over years, and a series of 3 different horrible bosses, many many people would comment “I don’t know how you’ve worked for him for so long, I couldn’t last a day”

                  Eventually it dawned on me that my childhood experiences had taught me to prioritize the wants of others, and to put up with abusive behavior, walk on eggshells around people who couldn’t or wouldn’t manage their own emotions, who acted incredibly unprofessionally. It wasn’t a *good* thing at all. It in fact it was incredibly dysfunctional, and unhealthy, damaging to me that I didn’t have the good sense to push back or resign the first time one of those jackasses threw a tantrum and instead stayed in those work environments far too long.

                  I still have those skills, can read people’s emotional states, empathize with them and adapt my approach based on that. But I don’t make their emotions my job, burden, don’t feel their ups and downs. And I’m very quick to avoid people who are emotional jerks or use their outbursts, emotional extremes to manipulate.

                  I may be observant and empathetic, but I’m not some super special empath /difficult person whisperer, just a grown up.

                  Dave also is NOT an empath.
                  He is just a self-centered manipulative jerk co-worker.

            2. Spero*

              Much of the research around highly sensitive people (a precursor term to empath) circled back to them a few years later and found out that the majority of people thought to be HSP were actually undiagnosed autistic, particularly autistic women. They typically had lack of diagnosis because of widely held false stereotypes about gender and that autism = Mr Spock.

              There is a similar reexamination looking at women with neurodivergence + trauma history who had previously been diagnosed as borderline, as nearly all of the symptoms fit into neurodivergence or PTSD whereas borderline only fit them if you pretended they DIDN’T have either of those conditions.

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        3. Rex Libris*

          I’m not a psychologist, but my understanding is that sort of thing is often a result of being more sensitive to sensory input, not that you’re somehow picking up the vibes off someone else’s emotions.

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          1. Properlike*

            Yes, I’m one of these. Could be PTSD, could be ADHD, could be the acting background. If you “read” people really well and respond supportively, that’s empathic intelligence. It’s a thing.

            If you use it how Dave’s using it, to control and demean, then you might be a sociopath/paychopath because you instinctively know which buttons to push and can suss out weakness… but that’s not the same thing as Dave thinks it is.

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        4. Irish Teacher.*

          Yeah, I believe there are people who, like you, are highly sensitive to others’ emotions but in my experience, a lot of self-proclaimed “empaths” don’t use it to mean “if I see you visibly upset, it will upset me,” but rather to mean, “if I feel upset (or more usually angry or insecure or uncomfortable), I will project and insist you must be exuding ‘bad energy’ and that I am being upset by the unhappy vibes you are emitting and I will completely ignore you if you say you are not unhappy because I know what you feel better than you do.”

          Your situation sounds totally believeable. “I pick up on negative vibes and cannot be around Nancy because even though she seems really positive and sweet, I sense negative energy from her and it is totally her fault I yelled at you even though she wasn’t even part of the conversation because I’m an empath and her ‘negative energy’ affected me,” not so much.

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          1. Tau*

            I have emotional mirroring going on (so hyperactive affective empathy, my brain decides to very literally make me feel what it thinks other people are feeling). It honestly sucks most of the time, and is a full-on obstacle to being a good friend, kind supportive person, or *anything* other than useless when someone is having an emotional crisis. I always side-eye when people brag about it like this is a good thing.

            And, like, on the cognitive side, I *also* side-eye people who think they are soooo good at sussing out people’s emotions. I’m really not (lol autism), but I’ve had some interesting situations where the super duper empathetic! person picked up on something that I wouldn’t have in a million years, but then acted on that in a way that I thought was clearly and obviously socially inappropriate. Like, maybe you can figure out John is feeling a little lonely and rejected because he has to miss our team dinner and I can’t, but at least I can figure out that John is really unlikely to thank you for telling his new boss whom he really wants to impress about this and suggesting we cancel the team dinner big boss has been looking forward to so John doesn’t feel left out. What the hell, where did all that amazing emotional predictive capability suddenly go when even autistic me can figure out he’ll be FURIOUS at you for this? And that’s not even getting started on the situations where the super tuned in empathetic person gets it… wrong.

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              The first thing about mirroring is so true; there are actually very few cases when it is helpful or compassionate to be as upset as the person you’re trying to support! If a friend is really worried about a test result, the *last* thing they need is for their support person to be freaking out even more.

              It’s why people describe the concentric circles of supporters, with support flowing in and requests for support flowing out. Empathy is an important part of that web, but so is the more practical side of caretaking.

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              1. Orv*

                Oh man. That circle theory effectively ended a lot of my friendships. I realized I was doing better than all my friends, which meant I wasn’t allowed to talk about my life at all with them anymore. Conversations got really one sided and eventually I just started to feel used.

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                1. Zelda*

                  It’s supposed to mean support *about a specific traumatic event* that someone’s dealing with. It’s not supposed to set permanent conditions for an entire relationship.

                2. Orv*

                  Life is one traumatic event after another for a lot of people I know…talking about my relatively stable life felt like dumping inward circle-wise.

                3. allathian*

                  Clearly you needed another group of friends if their life is truly so filled with drama that there’s no space for them to support you in it.

                  Functional friendships go both ways. The supporter and the person being supported can ideally take turns in both roles. I’ve been both by turns and I’m glad that my friends didn’t abandon me when I needed them the most and I’ve done them the same favor when they’ve needed it. But I also ended a couple friendships in my 20s when I realized that those people were never there for me and didn’t want to share their joys with me, and only contacted me when they wanted to vent.

                4. Irish Teacher.*

                  That wasn’t how I took the circle theory at all. I took it that like you’re not supposed to complain to them about how their specific problem affects you, not that you can’t complain about problems in your own life.

                  It’s not that you’re not allowed to talk about your life, just that you shouldn’t expect them to reassure you about how upsetting it is for you dealing with their problem. Like my brother telling me that I “ruined his summer” because I was worried about a cancer scare I’d had and insisting that I should “put on a mask” and pretend not to be worried so that it didn’t bother him. That is what the circle theory is objecting to, not that you should never mention anything other than the other person’s problem.

                5. Zweisatz*

                  Yeah as Irish Teacher said (and sorry to hear about the insensitive way your brother handled that): You shouldn’t tell people how incredibly upset you are about trauma *they* are experiencing, but instead discuss your feelings with other friends.

                  For example when my father’s friend was dying of cancer we supported her in her feelings and challenges and discussed in private amongst ourselves (without her) what we found challenging about it. But at the same time when our work life was stressful etc we still told her. She didn’t stop wanting to be a supportive friend about other topics.

                  And sometimes people just aren’t open to being supportive in turn. If it’s time-limited and you have the social support it can make sense (and strengthen relationships) to support a friend in crisis. But if there is never a break in crisis it might reveal that you are not in a mutual relationship, but in a one-way relationship.and ending it might be the best option for you.

              2. Alexander Graham Yell*

                Exactly. I have a friend who just got a cancer diagnosis and the people in my circle (who are not in hers) have been so great about letting me have my feelings/reactions *and also* gently pointing out that until I can get a handle on it, supportive text messages might be the way to go. My friend doesn’t need to handle my feelings on top of everything else, I’m here to take problems OFF of her plate, not give her one more thing to deal with.

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            2. amoeba*

              Yeah, I don’t really like the framing of empathy = compassion – in my experience, in a lot of cases, it does not! Because literally feeling the other person’s emotions isn’t necessarily very helpful in being there for them – I know a few people who can get quite easily overwhelmed (and, er, unhelpful) *because* of that.

              There’s a great book I’ll link in a reply that makes that case – until the link goes through, it’s “Against empathy – the case for rational compassion” by Paul Bloom.

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          3. goddessoftransitory*

            Yep. This version of “Empath” is just shorthand for “make it all about me, and also, I am a jerk and passive aggressive to boot.”

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          4. bleu*

            It also often means “I won’t let you have the spotlight when you’re describing your own experience/story because I’ll so overexaggerate my reaction to it so everyone sees how fantastically empathetic I am and thinks ‘wow'”.

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        5. Joielle*

          I used to think I was an empath but it turns out I’m just highly attuned to specific people’s emotions because that’s how I survived my childhood! Who knew.

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      4. Distracted Librarian*

        THIS THIS THIS! And people I know that describe themselves as empaths tend to be either really emotionally unhealthy or really narcissistic. I consider “empath” a warning label.

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        2. Festively Dressed Earl*

          My thoughts exactly. The biggest narcissist I know describes herself as “very empathetic”, usually right before centering herself in someone else’s trauma. People who are truly emotional sponges don’t tend to announce it.

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        3. MassMatt*

          It’s up there with “we’re a family!” IMO but with the additional bonus of therapy-like language being abused or at least misused.

          Where is this jerk’s boss when the desk is covered in dirty dishes?

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          1. goddessoftransitory*

            I’d like to know that as well, in addition to not shutting down jokes about the grandboss’s CANCER TREATMENT.

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      5. bleu*

        Exactly. Empathy is the universal ability of someone to feel bad for and affected by someone else’s suffering that’s different from their own. An Empath is someone who’s bought into tumblr-grade pseudopsychology to convince themselves that they’re special for being able to do so.

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        1. littlehope*

          Right, ‘people who are particularly empathetic’ are a real thing, even. Being unusually sensitive to other people’s feelings is a real thing, that can be caused by all sorts of other things, and it can be a good thing or a bad thing or a neutral thing depending on how you handle it.
          Being An Empath is self-congratulatory TikTok wank.

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          1. Tenebrae*

            Right?! I’ve been described as highly empathetic (would never use the term empath – too sci fi). It is not a super power. It is 50% the anxiety disorder, 50% being very good at imagining how I’d feel in the situation and a little bit a natural inclination to pay slightly more attention to body language than a lot of other people.
            It rarely gives me useful insight and it’s never pleasant.

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            1. Shan Whelan*

              Exactly. It’s a kind of empathy combined with hyper-vigilance. It means if someone is angry, I can probably tell even if they aren’t super open, AND it means it’ll stress me the hell out with anxiety. I wish I could turn it off.

              Someone above described working with hard to please and abusive folk–and that was me for years. I could read folk well enough to anticipate and placate almost anything. Until a narcissist lashed out at me hard enough to wake me up. I realized what a toxic place I’d put myself in, and it’s been a slow process of setting boundaries for myself. But anyone who’s making mean comments about someone going through cancer and doesn’t recognize that others aren’t comfortable with his inability to wash a dish doesn’t sound like he’s got a lot of empathy going on.

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          2. Sedna*

            Yeah, exactly this. I am a highly sensitive person who feels a lot of empathy, and in therapy for issues related to that! Every person I’ve seen who self-identifies as an “empath” is using it to mean “I deserve to be up in everyone’s business constantly, and if you get mad or set a boundary, you are persecuting me.” no babe, I just want you out of my face. you are not my therapist and if you were, I’d be leaving ASAP

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          3. Hroethvitnir*

            1000%. As someone with high affective empathy due to childhood abuse, who also loved Star Trek and fantasy books featuring Empaths, seeing people state they are “empaths” IRL is just bizarre.

            Affective empathy varies, it super duper doesn’t correlate to whether you’re a caring person, and IME anyone who identifies that way tends to have a distinct lack of both types of empathy (especially cognitive) but poor emotional regulation on their own part.

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          4. A Person*

            It’s like the difference between someone who is intelligent, and someone who goes around saying they are a “genius” and all the conflict they are constantly involved in is because other people lack the intellect to recognise their brilliant ideas.

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      6. RussianInTexas*

        ^^^ this. “Empath” is not a real thing that exist. The only known real “empath” is Deanna Troi, and she is fictional.

        Reply ↓
        1. MigraineMonth*

          There are in fact MANY fictional examples of empaths, many of whom are absolutely terrifying! The cult leader who can find the best way to manipulate anyone; the secret police interrogator who can detect any feeling of disloyalty toward the facist leader; and the scandalmonger who can perfectly manipulate every side and ferret out any secret. Or even the well-intentioned empaths who are always just trying to help by constantly manipulating you.

          Deanna Troi was a sweetheart, but she didn’t have to be.

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          1. amoeba*

            I’m now remembering the DS9 episode where Lwaxana Troi started projecting her emotions to the whole station, causing all kinds of trouble to everybody.

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      7. Worldwalker*

        Well, there are certainly people who are particularly bad at picking up on other people’s emotions. (I’m one of them) Why wouldn’t their likewise be people who are particularly good at it? Some people have tin ears, some people have perfect pitch, most people are in the middle.

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        2. RussianInTexas*

          But that’s not what self-proclaimed “empaths” are. They draw a very distinct line between being empathetic, and being an empath. Empath is someone who can literally feel what another person feels. Sometimes from afar. Sometimes in their sleep. They also claim they read other people energy, like “Susan has dark energy and it makes me cry”.
          This is not about picking up other people emotions or reading people well.

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          1. UKDancer*

            Yes I had one colleague who claimed to be an empath and reading people’s emotions she was annoying and the last person you’d want in a crisis. Also she was often wrong with her readings.

            She also said I was difficult to work with because the colours of my aura distressed her. I don’t believe in auras but even if I did I don’t know what I could do about it.

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            1. linger*

              You’ve reminded me of an NAR story a few years back where a waitress described being criticised by customers for her “dark aura”. And this comment on it:

              When they hijack an astral plane,
              You’re predestined for pure disdain.
              You had their hatred at ‘halo’:
              Aural sects made this job blow.

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            3. Margaret Cavendish*

              The *colours of your aura* *distressed* her? That’s…that’s not a thing.

              I picture her wearing gauzy scarves, big hoop earrings, and lots of bracelets. Did she also have smelling salts? And a fainting couch, so she could do a big dramatic swoon when she was too overcome by other people’s auras? Please tell me I’m right about this, it’s the only way it makes any sense!

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        3. MigraineMonth*

          People who are particularly good at reading others’ emotions are “good at reading people”, “have high social intelligence”, “have high levels of cognitive empathy”, etc. They are on the skilled end of the spectrum of being able to correctly guess people’s emotions.

          Most people who self-identify as empaths don’t think they’re on the spectrum of social intelligence, they see empaths as a separate category of people who are uniquely able to accurately read and be affected by other people’s emotions.

          This can lead to really obnoxious arguments where they tell you how you’re “really” feeling or explain that your “true” feelings are negatively affecting them. It’s particularly odious at work, where we’re expected to put up with each other and be civil, not to truly madly deeply enjoy our coworkers’ company.

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      8. Hot Flash Gordon*

        Not to derail, but every self-described empath I’ve ever met will use your experiences/feelings as a way to talk about themselves and how your feelings make them feel/reminds them of a time when they felt the same way, etc.

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      9. Ganymede II*

        Confession: I used to call myself an empath. Was I one? No. What I was is someone who grew up in a very strict household, constantly looking for cues as to what to expect from my parents to avoid getting in trouble, and as I adult kept up this “skill” which means I over-read people based on what my parents used to do before getting angry. Basically, I am projecting.
        I am not an empath. I just need to deconstruct my gut-reaction to other people’s behaviour that has nothing to do with me.

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    3. Julia*

      “Quit being a jerk Dave” would be my very unempath comeback to him pointing and announcing my laughter. He’s an arse.

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      1. Cafe au Lait*

        “What a weird thing to say, Dave” is a non-confrontational way to point out Dave’s weird behavior.

        “You sure are laughing!”
        “What a weird thing to point out, Dave.”

        “Our boss has cancer brain!”
        “What a weird thing to bring up, Dave.”

        “Brian’s a jerk.”
        “What a weird thing to comment on, Dave.”

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        2. Momma Bear*

          This.

          Also, regarding the being late, etc., if it impacts the team, call it out. Talk to the boss about things that are hurting productivity.

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        3. Elizabeth West*

          I take back my comment below. Do this! And look at him like you’re Commander Data processing something inexplicable while you say it.

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    4. Jeanine*

      exactly. He is nowhere near being an empath. He is just a plain jerk. But I do want to say, please don’t go to work with a cold and spread your illness!

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      1. No Boom Today. Boom Tomorrow.*

        Yes I came here to say this, too: the letter names plenty of reasons this guy is a jerk, but not coming into work when he has a cold is not one of those reasons! Coming in to work with a cold is unfortunately normalized, but should not be, and someone declining to come into the office because they have a cold is considerate, not jerkish behavior. (I do get that the other jerkish behavior probably makes people assume “I have a cold” is an excuse rather than real consideration, but still.)

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        1. DJ Hymnotic*

          Absolutely, staying home when you’re sick and especially when what you’re sick with is contagious should not be looked down upon. Having said that, calling in sick because you didn’t sleep well does sort of lose you some benefit of the doubt. It reminds me of the recent letter from a mom whose daughter had called in sick a bunch for a series of completely unrelated reasons–wakeboarding injury, missing her meds, etc.–that each on their own might have felt justified but cumulatively created the impression that her daughter wasn’t pulling her weight at work.

          LW doesn’t come out and say it, but between the chattiness, calling in, and mean-spirited treatment of their boss, I would venture a guess that Dave similarly may not be pulling his weight. And not that bad behavior should be excused by being hardworking, but I read LW’s comments as saying that Dave’s behavior is made even more intolerable by his chattiness and proclivity for calling in. And I can understand why. At least in my field, a coworker who called in a lot–sometimes for spurious reasons–and did more talking than working when they did show up would be seen as a malingerer.

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    5. Retirednew*

      The only point I would quibble about is that if he’s not coming in because of a cold, I think that’s good. I think we have normalized people coming to work when they are sick. If he doesn’t actually have a cold when he calls out that’s another issue, but I wish people would stop coming to work sick.

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      1. Irish Teacher.*

        Yeah, I wonder if the LW means that every time he coughs or has a tickle in his throat or something, he says “I think I’m getting a cold” and calls in sick, even if it would be pretty obvious to most people that the cough was due to an allergy or a smokey environment or his throat was sore because he’d been shouting for his team at a match or something.

        If he is actually sick, he is right to stay home but it’s possible he is using the term somewhat elastically.

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    1. T.N.H*

      I have never met someone who identifies as an empath who wasn’t self-absorbed and using it as a shield for consequences.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anonym*

        Yeah, plenty of people may be empaths, but the ones announcing it usually aren’t. And Dave is not only incorrect about being one, he’s incorrect about the definition.

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        1. Sherm*

          Right, and it’s because those demonstrating true empathy rarely need to justify themselves. You’re not likely to hear “Sorry for giving you a sympathy card regarding your recent loss. I’m an empath!”

          Reply ↓
          1. NotBatman*

            Thisssss. There’s an egoism inherent in announcing you’re “an empath” that seems deeply counter to the whole concept. “Stop taking on others’ emotions” is good therapy advice. But being attuned to others’ emotions? Among psychologists, we just call that being neurotypical.

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        3. Dadjokesareforeveryone*

          Thus right here. Empathetic people don’t announce they are empathetic, they show it through action. What Dave is showing through action is that he’s insensitive, quite literally the opposite of an empathetic person.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            Sort of like “Nice Guys (TM)”. Continually saying that you’re nice doesn’t actually counterbalance your actions, which are anything but kind.

            Reply ↓
        4. Lightbourne Elite*

          Plenty of people may be extra sensitive to the feelings of others for a wide variety of readings. They aren’t “empaths”, they just “are extra empathetic for some reason”. “Empath” is a fictional thing.

          Reply ↓
          1. Genevieve*

            Yeah, I’m fairly sensitive to the mood of people around me. My husband is not. All it really means is one of us grew up in an emotionally abusive household and was socialized as girls and AFAB people in our society are. The other is a man with a healthy family of origin.

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        5. Elle*

          Most people who experience empathy don’t need to elevate that (nearly universal) experience to a special status, but here is Dave.

          Reply ↓
        7. ThatOtherClare*

          The people who have plenty of empathy have all noticed (by using empathy) that’s it’s a fairly common thing to have. Like, they also don’t wander around announcing they have lunch.

          Reply ↓
      3. Lisa*

        I kind of identify as an empath, but only to myself. Most I’ll say is that I can read people well.

        LW, the fact he even used the term “coming out” about it shows how little empathy he actually has; otherwise he wouldn’t be co-opting LGBT+ language. I’d guess your other coworkers are annoyed by him as well but also don’t know how to shut him down. Best of luck!

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        1. Observer*

          LW, the fact he even used the term “coming out” about it shows how little empathy he actually has;

          Agreed. This is a use of language that shows that there is *something* off. This is not just an LGBT+ issue. But the term is associated with revealing something that could harm the person “coming out”.

          But this is the least problematic of his behaviors. You’re not misreading social cures. He’s being problematic. Ranging from weird to mean, childish and selfish.

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      4. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        and expecting others to manage their feelings. There was another letter where a woman claimed being an empath required coworkers to control their own emotions. “You are making me stressed.” “You are making me unhappy.”
        OP asked Alison how to be a human within the constraints of not triggering feelings in a coworker.

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        1. Rex Libris*

          It would be so nice if people would accept responsibility for their own emotional reactions. “You” are not “making” me do anything. “I” am “choosing” to respond in the manner I respond in.

          Reply ↓
          1. EchoGirl*

            I don’t totally agree with this either — I feel like that’s a concept that’s often used to excuse bullying and the like (think “I was just being brutally honest, you’re the one choosing to get upset”). There is a point in time where expecting someone to “accept responsibility for their own emotional reactions” is basically just victim-blaming. That being said, there’s a difference between a justified reaction to someone actually being mean and just being upset at someone existing in a way you don’t like.

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            1. Zelda*

              Agreed. The concept of “them’s fightin’ words” even has legal standing in many jurisdictions– the idea that there is such a thing as verbal provocation/ verbal violence, and reasonable people are not unreasonable for reacting to it.

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            2. Rex Libris*

              You can have whatever reaction you want, with the understanding that how you react is your own choice. If you’re bullied, you can choose to stand up to the bully verbally, punch them in the nose, escalate it to someone in authority, whatever, but they don’t “make” you have a particular reaction just because of their actions. To believe they do is to cede your own power.

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              1. Irish Teacher.*

                That’s not true though. You don’t always have a choice about your reaction, both because of power differentials and because people don’t entirely choose emotions – if they did, we would all choose to be happy and confident all the time. If people could just choose their reactions and responses, nobody would choose depression or anxiety or PTSD or anger or sadness or grief. Think about deaths – do you really believe people can just choose not to be upset when a family member dies? If not, then you do not believe people can choose whatever reaction they want.

                It’s nice to think we can choose how we react and to some extent, it is true but…that extent is fairly limited and abusers are very good at creating the conditions to get the reactions they want.

                Acknowledging reality is not “ceding your own power.” In reality, the opposite can be the case. Believing you can choose your own reaction gives power to abusers and bullies. Why do you think abusers and bullies tell people that all the time? They sure as heck aren’t trying to increase their victims power. When bullies and abusers say, “I didn’t make you upset/angry. Your reaction is your responsibility,” they are saying that because having their victim believe that gives them power, not the victim. It makes people less likely to escalate because escalation feels like an admission that you were upset and if you believe you can choose your reaction, then you probably don’t want to let anybody think you were upset because…choosing to be upset is…would not be a wise choice and therefore people probably wouldn’t want others to think they had been upset.

                There are also many cases in which very few options are on the table. For example, if you are being bullied and you know the bully will be supported by those in authority, then escalating it isn’t an option. Punching them in the nose might not be a wise one either, because it could lead to you being jailed. Standing up to them verbally in such a case is likely pointless. If they know that they are protected, they can just laugh in your face and continue to taunt you or continue to cause whatever problems for you they have been doing.

                If, for example, somebody is sabotaging your work and your boss refuses to believe you (and there is nobody above him or her who will take your part) and takes their word for it, really your only options are to look for another job or to put up with it and if you are in a recession and the odds of finding a job are low…well, you may be down to “just putting up with it.”

                Now, none of this seems to be the case in Dave’s situation. It does sound like he is putting the blame on others for reactions that…well, he may or may not have control over. It is possible he has mental health problems or other issues that have an impact on his emotions. For example, he may have an anxiety disorder and be unable to control his anxiety in certain situations. But even then…it’s not his colleagues’ fault (and isn’t an explanation for things like mocking the boss’s cancer treatment or the LW’s laughing, but could explain things like his calling in sick for minor issues and getting overwhelmed easily).

                Reply ↓
                1. Rex Libris*

                  You don’t choose emotions, but you can learn to control your response to your emotions, and how much you manage them rather than letting them manage you. The emotion and the response to the emotion are not the same thing.

                  You can also choose how to respond to or confront or manage your depression or anxiety or sadness or anger or bully, or whatever else.

                  Weighing one’s personal tolerance for risk or what the potential consequences might be and factoring that into a choice is perfectly valid and necessary, but it still doesn’t mean you don’t have one.

          2. Observer*

            I really wonder what happened there. That LW got quite a pile on. I think they deserved it, but it must have been difficult.

            I really hope that at least it helped them to see the issue a little more clearly, which might have helped in dealing with the situation in a reasonable manner. Because the LW was going in with a really problematic mind set.

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      5. Seawren*

        I have a family member who identifies as an empath which means, according to her, everyone else has to control their own emotions to avoid upsetting her because she feels so much more deeply than the rest of us. So she can say the most hurtful things, but you can’t show that you’re hurt because it would hurt her even more.

        She is, as you can imagine, an utter delight.

        Reply ↓
        1. metadata minion*

          Uuuugh, no. I do tend to mirror people’s emotions to an unhelpful level (that or act like a stereotypical Vulcan and feel impatient with the illogical humans for having emotions; there is no middle ground and I can’t even choose which algorithm is going to activate. Why yes, I am autistic ;-) ), but that’s *my* problem. The most I ask from other people is some patience/understanding when I say “sorry, I’m getting really overwhelmed and need to take a break from this conversation” or whatever.

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        2. Soon to be ex spouse*

          And also my empath soon to be ex loves to announce that he has not done anything to make anyone feel a certain way, no matter the meanness that comes out of his mouth or how he treats us. Only we can control our own feelings! Unless we tell him how he has hurt our feelings. Then we’re selfish, mean and cruel and manipulative! Ugh it’s exhausting

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        4. Coffee*

          I used to know someone who believed that they understood what other’s are feeling. She usually got it all wrong. This conversation makes me think of all those awkward moments it created

          Reply ↓
      7. Beatrice*

        Ugh, exactly. I’ve met 2 people who frequently announce that that they’re empaths, and they are both using it in a manipulative way. Ex: crying at work to startle people into giving them what they want. Ex: Distracting a group of people by focusing on a coworker’s emotions to avoid tackling a problem they are struggling with. Ex: Using coworkers as a captive audience for emotional dumping – manipulating coworkers into listening to their endless problems.

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      8. Jeanine*

        Well then hello, this is one empath that doesn’t do that. I have to seem aloof at times though because I get overwhelmed by emotions from others and have to try and shield as much as possible. But I never use it as an excuse for anything.

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      9. Lenora Rose*

        I have so so rarely seen someone use the word about themselves without trying to use it to say they are a Special Snowflake that Everyone has to be Nice to that I, too, often take it as a warning flag.

        (I can think of one exception, and she used it once, in many many years’ acquaintance, in a very narrow context where it made sense, rather than announcing it to her whole office.)

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      10. Ann O'Nemity*

        Hate to say it, but this has been my experience as well. Everyone who loudly identifies as an empath has turned out to be a manipulative narcissist.

        Reply ↓
    3. GenX, PhD, Enters the Chat*

      WORD. Not washing his dishes isn’t a “quirk,” it’s gross and disrespectful and unprofessional.
      And bullying LW and their sick boss is jerk behavior. An empath would know that he is making other people uncomfortable and stop doing it.

      Reply ↓
    5. ferrina*

      *applause*

      Side effects may include man flu, inability to clean up after oneself, and misappropriating psychological terminology.

      Reply ↓
    6. Dr. Rebecca*

      Some friends of mine back in the ’90s when the witchy-crystal-empath movement started to get big used to call it being “assholistic.”

      Reply ↓
    3. bleu*

      Yes. Someone mentioned in a tweet about Tony Soprano using the things he learned in therapy to justify not changing his behavior, and I think that applies to 90% of the therapyspeakers online currently

      Reply ↓
  4. GrooveBat*

    So, the thing about not wanting to make the office “an uncomfortable place to be in” is that Dave has already made the office an uncomfortable place to be in! Not just for you, but for everyone around him.

    I’d 100% complain to higher ups. And, in the meantime, one strategy for dealing with his insensitive “jokes” is to ask him to repeat and explain them, e.g.:

    Dave: Look at how hard Jane is laughing!
    You (straight faced): Excuse me?
    Dave: Just kidding!
    You: I must not have gotten the joke. What was funny?
    etc.

    You might have to do this a few times, but eventually you’re pushing the discomfort back on him (where it belongs).

    Reply ↓
    1. MigraineMonth*

      I didn’t read Dave’s comments as being jokes, necessarily, just… awkward interjections. But yes, OP, it’s fine to ask him not to make them (either in the moment or at a later time).

      “Everyone look at OP’s face!” is a weird thing to say, it would make anyone feel self-conscious, and you can tell him to stop.

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      1. Not on board*

        Is it possible that Dave has figured out that OP is on the spectrum and is specifically targeting OP because of it? Other people would probably tell Dave off, but OP hasn’t because OP isn’t sure if Dave’s behaviour fits social norms. Which it does not.
        Definitely calling him out is the way to go here – and if it doesn’t stop, take it to higher ups.
        “Look how hard Jane is laughing”
        “Is there a reason you’re pointing that out? Please stop, it’s not very empathetic”
        Any time he says anything mean – “that’s not very empathetic”

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        1. Insert Clever Name Here*

          This is exactly what I thought. OP, Dave is nothing but a jerk and he is violating social norms left and right.

          Reply ↓
    2. Stuart Foote*

      I see this advice and variations of it in advice columns at lot, but I have never seen it used in real life and wonder if it actually works. I feel like in an advice column it is very easy to say “What an odd thing to say!” or a variation on that, but in real life I suspect that it would be very awkward and easy for the other person to deflect.

      Reply ↓
      1. Silver Robin*

        I have seen it work.

        Yes, it is easily deflected but it also eliminates whatever the person gets out of saying those things by calling attention to them. Like a form of grey rocking. It takes a while, but folks do eventually stop saying things that are no longer gratifying to say (or they escalate, get angry, and then look *really* weird, which is another positive resolution).

        Having these responses ready also helps whoever is saying them, because now there is a thing they can do in that situation, instead of stay silent. So even if the jerk does not stop quickly (or ever), the practice helps those hearing it keep the comments from sticking.

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        1. Shiny Penny*

          I agree that being prepared with *something* to say back to this type of bully can help make it less rewarding for the bully— and also help the target feel less terrible afterwards, which is a huge plus.

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      2. Saturday*

        I agree – I think this would make the LW look odd. I would follow AAM’s advice/suggested scripts. Those things could be said much more naturally.

        Reply ↓
        1. Expelliarmus*

          FWIW, AAM regularly suggests this type of comment for other situations, so I don’t think she’d agree that this script sounds unnatural.

          Reply ↓
      3. GrooveBat*

        It worked on me once. I made a really stupid, poorly thought out joke and felt like an absolute idiot when it met with that response.

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      4. Broadway Duchess*

        I do this regularly and it actually does shut down the inappropriate thing. There is certainly a particular vocal quality needed to make it work, but it relies heavily on actually believing that the thing was weird or odd, otherwise it’s hard to pull off.

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      5. Sedna*

        As always, YMMV, I but love Carolyn Hax’s generic “Wow.” as a response for this reason. Brief, easy to remember, but makes a point that yes, you did notice that, and you hate it :)

        Reply ↓
      6. Mango Freak*

        +1

        This is how I feel whenever someone advises deadpanning “What’s the joke/why is that funny/what do you mean?” when someone makes on offensive joke. Won’t most jerks just do a cycle of “Come on, you know what I mean” until they call you sensitive/angry–regardless of how you’re actually behaving?

        This kind of advice seems to assume that people always answer the exact question you ask, and listen to what you say. I’ve found that largely untrue even on mundane matters where that’d be helpful to the other person–but when they can just dismiss you?

        Reply ↓
        1. MigraineMonth*

          I think that for the people giving this advice, the idea is to put the person and bystanders on notice that you aren’t going to let the offensive “joke” (or future offensive jokes/comments) slide.

          So forcing them to defend their joke with a cycle of “Come on, you know what I mean” until they call you sensitive/angry *is* a success, by that definition. They’ve learned you’re not afraid to call them out. Bystanders have also seen you call them out, so they know that you’re not willing to just go with the flow when it comes to bigotry.

          “Explain the joke to me?” also makes the “I’m not bigoted!” derail less likely and can be easier for people socialized to be non-confrontational than something like “That joke is horribly offensive/bigoted!”

          Reply ↓
      7. Despachito*

        Thank you and Not on board, it is OT but what you say combined clicked and explained something I have been battling with since childhood.

        (being unsure how to react to what I considered atrocious behavior because of uncertainty that this can perhaps be some societal norm I am not familiar with, and the inefficiency of pre-prepared retort)

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      8. Picard's purported consent*

        I can imagine it working in some situations, but not when LW is, by definition, already laughing when the comment is made! Good sign that this advice is getting over-applied, IMO.

        Reply ↓
        1. Expelliarmus*

          It’s a weird comment to make because it’s weird to comment on how much someone is laughing. Whether they are already laughing or not isn’t inherently relevant.

          Reply ↓
          1. Picard's purported consent*

            What I mean is, I don’t think LW can respond “straight-faced” when they’re already mid-laughter.

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    3. goddessoftransitory*

      Yes. This type is a projector: he basically does mean things and then accuses everyone else of that behavior.

      Reply ↓
    4. bleu*

      Or can be easier to yes-and his deflection. “Just kidding!” “Yeah, that’s the problem, your joke was bad and really insensitive. Stop kidding about his cancer.”

      Reply ↓
  5. ThatGirl*

    FWIW, I don’t think “empaths” are a real thing, either. In my experience they tend to be people who are highly attuned to the emotions around them because of abuse, anxiety or poor boundaries. They also tend to assume they know how people feel, and then take that on themselves, as opposed to truly feeling it.

    But this guy? This guy is not an empath even by that definition.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ceanothus*

      Ah, this is a very kind and factual way to say what I wanted to say!

      I *do* think it’s possible that Dave is showing signs of having been raised in an abusive environment or in an environment with poor boundaries, but that isn’t an excuse for his behavior.

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    2. Mad Scientist*

      Yes, this is accurate in my experience as well, especially the “assuming they know how others feel” part. I’ve had so many self-proclaimed empaths assign emotions to me that were completely incorrect, and it often comes across as dismissive of what I’m *actually* feeling. I think a lot of it is just people projecting their emotions onto others and interpreting that as feeling others’ emotions, when really it’s their own.

      Reply ↓
      1. Name (Required)*

        I was looking for a nice way to say something similar (especially since, purely anecdotally, everyone I know who calls themselves an empath isn’t actually a Star Trek counselor but IS weaponizing therapy-speak to avoid accountability and/or center themselves in a situation that has nothing to do with them), and you have nailed it with this spot-on comment.

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        2. Mad Scientist*

          Absolutely, it’s very often about avoiding accountability and centering themselves.

          I’ve heard some wild mental gymnastics along the lines of “sure, I hurt you, but I can literally feel your pain as if it were my own, so that makes me just as much of a victim!” Nope, the other person’s “pain” you feel is probably your own guilt from hurting them!

          Or even in the case of the “empath” not actually hurting someone, but just witnessing someone else in pain, it still seems very main-character-syndrome to take someone else’s pain and make it about yourself.

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      2. Distracted Librarian*

        It’s dismissive and also arrogant to assume you know what someone else feels or thinks unless they’ve told you. These so-called empaths are assigning themselves godlike abilities that they do not actually have. And it’s really annoying.

        Reply ↓
      3. Rex Libris*

        I think for the most part they’re just reading external cues, and assuming that you *must* feel a certain way, because that’s how they’d feel. In other words, basically the opposite of actual empathy.

        Reply ↓
      4. Irish Teacher.*

        While the person didn’t claim to be an empath, I once had a bizarre response from somebody online along these lines. They were insisting that anybody who disliked a character not intended to be a villain had trauma that they were projecting onto the character. I disagreed, saying that it is possible to recognise a character is behaving in a problematic way (even if the author doesn’t realise it’s problematic) without having been the target of such behaviour and they argued, “but even so, shouldn’t they get therapy for how angry it is making them.” I agreed that if somebody is experiencing distressing emotions because of a fictional character, they should probably look into why but said I doubted that most people who comment “I don’t like such a character” is really angry about it.

        This was a completely laidback, theoretical discussion, when they suddenly replied with “I’m ending this conversation now because I can sense the stress coming from you and I don’t want to be affected by it.”

        I was thinking…um, Okaaaay, I’m starting to see where you got the “anybody who dislikes a character other than a designated villain is deeply angry and unhappy and unable to concentrate on anything other than their anger” because you seem to be seriously misreading people.

        It literally went, “well, maybe if they are really angry and distressed by it, but I doubt most people are,” “I am sensing stress from you.” Um…what?

        Reply ↓
        2. ThatOtherClare*

          Classic projection. They are incapable of disliking someone’s actions without it turning into anger at the person, so they assume your mind must work the same way. Hence their panicked desire to shut down a conversation where you disagree, lest your disagreement with their opinion cause you to turn your (non-existent) rage on them next.

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      5. Elbe*

        Agreed. A lot of self-described empaths are just making a lot of assumptions about the internal lives of others and don’t have the humility to understand that they could be wrong. And assuming that you’re right about everything is a great way to never actually learn the skills that you think you have.

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    3. I Just Can't*

      You are right about this, as someone who works with trauma being able to read other’s micro expressions and always being hypervigilant to danger is very much a trauma response and many people with complex trauma as an adult view this as being “very empathic” when in reality they are “very traumatized”. Dave does not sound like this type of person.

      Reply ↓
      1. UKDancer*

        Yes. I think also a lot of people get really good at reading micro expressions and body language especially those in law enforcement and social work because of the need to defuse situations. So I’ve worked with ex-police before now who’ve been really good at reading people and picking up when people are going to lose their tempers, but a lot of that is training and experience.

        None of it is some form of super power.

        Reply ↓
        1. MigraineMonth*

          That is definitely not my (fortunately rare) experience with US police officers; hopefully things are a bit better in the UK? (Fewer fatal shootings, at least.)

          I once went to a women’s self-defense course led by a male police officer who wouldn’t respect our stated boundaries, had us learn ineffective techniques by practicing them *on each other*, told us needlessly traumatic stories about women being murdered, and left one woman so distraught I needed to comfort her in the parking lot afterwards.

          Not exactly good at reading people’s emotions, unless he was upsetting vulnerable women for fun.

          Reply ↓
          1. Sorrischian*

            I had a very similar experience in a self-defense class. I was so nervous and uncomfortable that I bailed on the last “try it for real on a guy in padding” session and never actually ‘graduated’. (Yes, obviously you’re meant to use these skills in a situation where you might be scared, but I’m pretty sure how it’s supposed to work is you build confidence first so that you can keep going through the fear, not stew in anxiety about it for 10 weeks.)

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            1. MigraineMonth*

              Yeah, the police officer didn’t want to put on the padding (despite that being promised in the class description) so he had us practice on each other *without* padding. Not to worry, though; none of the pressure points or nerve strikes he taught were effective enough to momentarily debilitate my 90lb female partner. *rolls eyes*

              He then spent the rest of the class telling us in detail about one of his cases where a man had brutally murdered young girlfriend with a knife and how personally upsetting he’d found working that case.

              I wrote a letter to the host org about my experience and they cut all ties with that “teacher”, so at least there’s that.

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    4. ferrina*

      I was going to argue with your first sentence, then read the second sentence and felt like I was hit by a truth hammer. That is spot on.

      Reply ↓
    5. MigraineMonth*

      Up until the last couple of years, I’ve only heard “empath” used in sci-fi or fantasy to describe someone who can literally sense, experience and/or manipulate the feelings of others. My reaction to someone saying they were an empath would probably be similar to if they declared they could send telepathic messages to me.

      (As a note, empaths in sci-fi/fantasy range the gamut from dedicated healers/ to world-class puppet masters, spies and cult leaders. So even if the person just means they have really high social EQ… I’d immediately worry about manipulation, even (or especially) “for my own good”.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Guacamole Bob*

        Yeah, others have mentioned Star Trek; my mind went to Talia from the Valdemar books, who has to deal with a lot of people who suspect her of manipulation.

        Reply ↓
      2. One Esk Nineteen*

        I was thinking of Lauren Olamina from Earthseed, who has hyperempathy as a congenital medical condition—if she knows (or believes) someone is hurt it causes a nasty psychosomatic reaction, sometimes to the point of her spontaneously bleeding, but she’s not actually psychic or that much better at reading people’s emotions than anyone else.

        Reply ↓
    6. Jeanine*

      That is probably because you aren’t one. Trust me we exist. We get overwhelmed by what others are feeling, especially in anxious or tragic moments. It’s not fun being an empath and I wish I could turn it off sometimes.

      Reply ↓
      1. Distracted Librarian*

        You are of course entitled to your experience, but getting overwhelmed by other people’s extreme negative emotions seems like a normal human thing to me. I theorize that it’s why we’ve evolved to cry – people want to help us because they want to make us stop crying. Someone who doesn’t react at all to other people’s emotions would likely be considered a sociopath.

        Reply ↓
        1. Emily*

          “but getting overwhelmed by other people’s extreme negative emotions seems like a normal human thing to me.”

          Exactly! I think the hard truth is we sometimes have a tendency to want to see things about ourselves that are actually pretty common as unique or different, when really they are not.

          Reply ↓
          1. Irish Teacher.*

            I think it’s because we see so much more about ourselves than others. We know every time we are affected by an emotion, but not every time others are, so we have no way of knowing if they are more or less affected or if they are even affected at all.

            It’s like when you’re a teenager and you feel left out because you’re the only one who doesn’t love such a band or such a sport or who is afraid of the class bully or doesn’t like partying, so you pretend to have the same reaction as everybody else and it’s only when you’re an adult that you realise many of the others in the group were pretending too and they thought you one of the group who felt like everybody else and that they were the only one who didn’t.

            Reply ↓
      2. ThatGirl*

        But how can you possibly know what someone else is feeling? Or feel it yourself? Like I said – you may be attuned to others’ (assumed) emotions, for whatever reason. But whatever those underlying reasons are, it’s yours to deal with and work on. And if you truly are – or truly believe you are – an empath, I can’t imagine you’d want someone like Dave speaking for you.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            In your definition, what is a true empath? Is it someone who falls particularly high on the spectrum of cognitive empathy (the ability to perceive others’ emotions or imagine how they are feeling) and emotional empathy (where you feel pain when you imagine/perceive others feeling pain)?

            Reply ↓
            1. Jeanine*

              “someone who falls particularly high on the spectrum of cognitive empathy (the ability to perceive others’ emotions or imagine how they are feeling) and emotional empathy (where you feel pain when you imagine/perceive others feeling pain)?” YES. This exactly. I deal with this on a daily basis whether it’s in person or online even.

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              1. ThatGirl*

                Just gonna nicely point out that key in there is that this is happening inside your head; there’s not some magic where someone is transferring their emotions to you. It’s your perception of it.

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              2. MigraineMonth*

                Thank you for clarifying! I’ve always heard this defined as “a person with a lot of empathy”, rather than “an empath” (though obviously definitions are context-specific and change over time).

                I think you’d be getting far less pushback from the comment section if they understood this was your definition. It seems that a lot of people who define themselves as empaths believe they are actually experiencing others’ hidden emotions, rather than have a lot of empathy (experiencing their own emotional pain when they think others are feeling pain, which is true for most people).

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      3. Rex Libris*

        My own experience is that when I start to feel overwhelmed by others’ emotions, what I’m actually being overwhelmed by is my own reaction to their emotions, which I do actually have control over, but it’s a difficult distinction to make, and it took a decade or so of meditation practice to figure that out.

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        1. Mad Scientist*

          Yes, such an important distinction! I had a friend who was a self-proclaimed empath and he would often claim to be overwhelmed because he could feel our “negative emotions” (usually when someone tried to hold him accountable for violating boundaries). But he wasn’t feeling our emotions, he was feeling his own reaction to hearing something he didn’t want to hear.

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        2. MigraineMonth*

          This, exactly.

          I think it’s very common for people to be empathetic, which is where we partially echo the emotions we perceive in others, particularly anxiety and distress. It’s part of social bonding (it hurts us to see those we love in pain, and makes us happy to see them happy), and it also helps us be sensitive to danger.

          However, we aren’t *actually* experiencing another’s emotions. I may feel really sad because my coworker is crying at her desk, then realize that she’s crying from laughter. Or feel angry because I assume she’s angry at me, only to find out she just has RBF. Our empathy is based on perception, not a magical ability to sense true emotion or read body language and micro-expressions (which is mostly junk science anyway).

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            1. basically functional*

              Well, the entire scientific community would disagree with the witch community. You’re free to value faith over science, of course, but “witches agree with me” is not a strong argument in favor of magical abilities.

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            2. A bunch of witches, just out of frame*

              I have eighteen tarot decks, a hidden stash of mugwort, and know the 100-letter name of Seth Typhon, and this poster does NOT speak for me.

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        4. Orv*

          For me this was actually a side effect of anxiety disorder, but it took treating the anxiety for me to realize that. What I thought was me deeply experiencing others’ feelings was actually just an anxiety spiral.

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      4. Snarkus Aurelius*

        You mean you respond to what you *think* other people are feeling. I guarantee you that not even my own husband knows what I’m feeling most of the time let alone anyone else. It’s the biggest complaint I get from nearly everyone I know.

        Sure, it’s pretty obvious when someone is visibly anxious or traumatized or upset (emphasis on the visibly), but all humans are programmed to see emotions and respond. We’re biologically designed to peacefully coexist on some level. Reading and responding to others’ emotions are what we’re supposed to do to ensure our survival.

        Some people are better at empathy than others (cops, litigators, judges, psychologists, FBI, CIA, etc.) because they’re trained or astute, but we all possess the *ability* to see, feel, and respond to what others are feeling. Empathy isn’t special that way.

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      5. Cordelia*

        You don’t know what others are feeling. You are getting overwhelmed by your own feelings, not other people’s. Sure, that’s not fun, but you are not any different to the rest of us, who also find it hard to see someone else in distress, because we are human. But we learn to manage our own feelings in order to help other people, rather than giving ourselves a special label.

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      6. ferrina*

        There are definitely people that get bigger emotions more quickly or are more easily overstimulated by external emotional stimuli. Look up Highly Sensitive Person (an actual psychological term postulated by Elaine Aron). This might be what you are talking about. I’m not going to quibble about the word “empath”, since most people (not all) that claim to be empaths are just frustrated by other people’s emotions and/or trying to turn focus back to their own emotions.

        High Sensitivity is interesting because it’s not a diagnosis, but is often linked to other things. Certain mental health conditions (including ADHD, bipolar, and I think autism?) can come with a quick onset of strong emotions (not all the time, individual experiences vary wildly) and/or be sensitive to physical stimuli (and it doesn’t need to be every stimuli- often it’s select stimuli that regularly cause a certain reaction, like a food that is the wrong texture). Emotional Sensitivity can also be a learned behavior through trauma or study (like the example of a police officer or teacher that is really good at reading people). This is an automatic brain pattern that technically can be unlearned, but it’s really hard to unlearn. And most people I’ve met with high sensitivity go out of their way to mask, or will apologize for it. They generally don’t announce it to everyone like the internet influencer empaths of dubious abilities.

        As for turning it off- some types of high sensitivity can be managed or turned down in certain situations with practice. I found CBT to be really helpful. There is research out there, but I don’t know of any one resource (my info came from a wide array of resources).

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        1. Sedna*

          + to the concept of Highly Sensitive Persons, I get overwhelmed with emotion (including other people’s!) and I have found it a very useful tool to understand why I react the way I do. Working with a therapist has been enormously helpful in reducing its negative impacts. (FWIW, we’ve done a lot of EMDR work together which has been a great fit for me.)

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        2. Reed Weird (they/them)*

          Yes to this! My partner is Highly Sensitive (with a fun mix of neurodivergence and C-PTSD) and struggles with the emotional and physical side of it. They’re very sensitive to perceived shifts in mood or energy, which can cause a lot of distress when it’s purely because I got tired and am no longer emoting as strongly (I’m also neurodivergent). They work very hard to accommodate when possible in public, mask if not, and apologize when it does cause problems. I don’t know the details of their therapy type, but I know that working through some of the C-PTSD has helped drastically with the emotional sensitivity and reducing the length and severity of breakdowns.

          Jeanine, I hope if ferrina’s comment strikes a chord with you, that you are able to research and get help to reduce the sensitivity. It can be very difficult to be around someone so attuned to perceived shifts in mood that it sends them into anxious spirals. I love my partner, but this relationship would have ended long ago if they were not actively working on this and improving themself, and I’m very proud of the progress they’ve made.

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      7. LL*

        Or maybe you’re getting overwhelmed by your own feelings about those anxious or tragic moments? It’s pretty normal to have reactions to those types of things.

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      8. Hroethvitnir*

        The reason this gets pushback is because people who are highly (often excessively) sensitive to tone and body language, and experience a strong emotional reaction to other’s perceived emotions is not new: it’s very strange to use a word most associated with a literal magical power to feel other’s emotions to describe being at one extreme of an almost universal trait.

        It seems incredibly unempathetic to think your experience of distress when exposed to other’s distress is so uniquely different to those around you that it needs a proper noun.

        Som

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        1. Hroethvitnir*

          Ahhh how did I post that!

          Anyway, humans are on a spectrum of affective empathy (experiencing emotional mirroring) and cognitive empathy (compassion through reason), and when you experience it highly (very very often due to trauma) it is upsetting! But it’s really, really not unique to feel stressed when someone is tense or want to cry when someone cries.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            Yeah… I used to think I was empathetic, but actually I just get really stressed when someone is visibly distressed and desperately want to fix it. Which is sometimes helpful (I’m less likely to be a bystander), but it also means I have to regularly remind myself to mind my own damn business.

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            1. ThatOtherClare*

              You can still be an excellent helper to your mid-level friends and relatives. You know, the friends who are more than strangers or acquaintances but less than your best buds, your cousins, nieces, nephews, in-laws. People who you care enough about to want to help, but also have enough distance from to enable you to stay calm and helpful when they talk about their recent break up or medical diagnosis.

              I am deeply grateful for and indebted to such people in my own life. Being a calm and caring presence who is able to listen objectively and give the person what they need right now without trying to fix the problem is actually one of the best ways to help fix the distress that the problem causes.

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              1. MigraineMonth*

                Thank you for the advice!

                Unfortunately, the “without trying to fix the problem” is my Achilles heel. I’m working on it, especially with my personal relationships, but I would make a truly terrible therapist. “Okay, well have you tried this? Oh, that sucks. Do you need to borrow money from me?”

                In the meantime very structured help (e.g. donating blood and ESL tutoring) where I know where the boundaries are is probably the best way I can help.

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      9. Cthulhu's Librarian*

        No, you don’t. You are not gifted or cursed with some mysterious ability.

        You are observing others, evaluating their emotional state, and may have difficulty regulating your emotional response to stressors (which, for you, includes others showing emotion).

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      10. ThatOtherClare*

        I understand what you’re describing. I have several family members who have dealt with the same problem, and it was very difficult for them. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, it sucks. However, what you’re describing isn’t empathy. It’s called ‘difficulties with emotional regulation’. Something external (someone else’s emotions) is causing emotions in you and you’re overwhelmed by that, instead of being able to process and handle the emotions you’re feeling in a healthy way. Unfortunately, this doesn’t help you or the person having the original emotion.

        I have good news! The experts are really good at helping with that one. If you tell them the phrase ‘I’m having difficulties with emotional regulation’ they’ll have all sorts of options with which to help you turn it off when you need to.

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        1. Snarkus Aurelius*

          My mom has this problem as well. The last time I saw her, she walked in a room and merely on the basis of seeing me sitting on a chair with a frown on my face, she diagnosed me with: depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation. (She isn’t a licensed mental health professional, but that doesn’t matter anyway.). Even though I’ve been evaluated for a wide spectrum of issues, none of those ever came up. Furthermore, she insisted I “fooled” the psychologists who evaluated me because she claims to know me better. (She doesn’t.)

          Those diagnoses do, however, mirror what my mother has been diagnosed with throughout her life with little to no improvement. While she doesn’t know the word “empath,” she’s doing exactly what the guy in today’s letter is doing. In my mother’s case, she misunderstood the frown on my face because that was my response to her presence. ;)

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    7. biobotb*

      I know someone who considers herself a highly sensitive person who soaks up others’ emotions. What she’s usually doing is mistaking her own emotions for theirs. She feels something, doesn’t recognize it as her own, then projects it onto someone else, and mistakenly reads the reflection as emotion originating with them.

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      1. Snarkus Aurelius*

        Which is a very, very important distinction to make.

        One of the closest professions to an empath (and I’m using that term as a specific, learned skill because that’s what it is) is a licensed mental health provider. They all will tell you (or they should tell you) is that the only person who knows yourself and your feelings best is YOU. Even trained professionals can speculate at best, but only you can truly know what you feel.

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    8. SpringRain*

      Agree. I’m one of those people who are highly attuned due to growing up with a very volatile parent, and I would never call myself an empath. I just subconsciously learned to watch cues very carefully. And because this parent would then project their emotional state onto me, I also learned that whatever emotion a person was feeling or I was picking up on was somehow about me (and would end badly).

      That’s taken a lot of conscious unlearning. Picking up on cues can be helpful in some contexts. But you don’t always need to make it your business. And you certainly don’t need to make assumptions through a self-centered lens. It’s a burden to let other people’s emotions affect your day-to-day. Learning to let that go is freeing.

      But this guy isn’t any of that. He’s just an asshole.

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      1. chewingle*

        Same. But the thing I’ve learned is that A LOT of those cues only work with the volatile parent. I’ll see similar cues in someone else (my husband, for instance), and find that I’m totally off-based with how they’re feeling. The heightened emotion I feel is my own stress.

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  6. Kristin*

    Ah yes, the “other people aren’t as alive as I am” pose. That’s completely separate from the empath who feels others’ pain.
    I wonder if naming his behavior in turn would work? “Wow, Dave, you sure are commenting a lot on other people merely existing. Look at how it stops the conversation, Dave. Do you really want to be doing that?

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    1. Putting the Dys in Dysfunction*

      Or, “You’re an empath, Dave.” {Spoken without letting a trace of your sarcasm show.} “How do you think Boss would feel if he knew you were saying things like this?

      Keep harping on his self image as an empath. It will irritate the hell out of Dave at the least, and that’s a win in my book.

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      1. GenX, PhD, Enters the Chat*

        I’m not sure why, but I read “You’re an empath, Dave” in the voice of HAL from 2001: A Space Odyssey. I suspect this might be a good tone to take with the dude, though.

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    2. Linda*

      I’ve run into a number of people who latch onto something mildly unusual about me (super mild, like I live downtown when everyone else in the group lives on the east side) and will only talk about that to/about me, usually with an awestruck tone, as in “have you met *Linda*?! Did you know that she lives *downtown*?!” Making it awkward in public seems to shut down the behavior: “Why do you keep telling people where I live? You’re really fixated and it’s weird.” It’s like you dumped cold water on them, I don’t think they even realized they were being strange. If the LW can bring herself to give it a try (it can feel pretty mean, at least to me), the “why are you so obsessed with me” tack may work.

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      1. Elle*

        This is such good guidance for dealing with this type. What is UP with people like this? It’s so exhausting. And if you have people-pleasing tendencies, it feels SO unnatural to turn it back on them and (reasonably) point out that they’re the ones being weird.

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      2. goddessoftransitory*

        I mean, I guess if downtown is filled with orcs or zombies it might seem odd to rent there, but most downtowns I’ve seen have quite a few residents!

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  7. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

    You can also shut down unwanted chats if he’s trying to engage you.

    “Can’t chat right now.” And turn back to your work. If he persists, “I can’t chat and need to focus.” You can get much more firm/sharp if he rudely continues.

    If he has Deep Feelings about that, guess he can take a sick day.

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      1. Emily*

        Yep! I do think Alison’s advice about how to use Dave’s self description as an empath to get him to try and stop being a jerk is great.

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  9. Properlike*

    Dave is a narcissist.

    Narcissists never see their own behavior as problematic, but project their issues on to you.

    Dave needs to go.

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    1. MisterOblivious*

      Yeah, a lot of the people I see online that describe themselves as “empaths” are narcissist that discovered other people have feelings too. They still don’t care, mind you, they just want to pretend like they care about your feelings while making it about themselves.

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      1. Distracted Librarian*

        This. The way self-described empaths use the term, they really are making other people’s feelings about themselves.

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    2. ferrina*

      Empaths and narcissists are both highly sensitive. The difference is that empaths are highly sensitive to other people’s emotions, while narcissists are mostly just sensitive to their own discomfort.

      Narcissist has a cold? No one has ever been so sick as the narcissist, nor so brave and stoic in facing down this cold. No one can possibly understand what the narcissist is going through. You must simultaneously feel pity for the narcissist in their difficult plight and impressed by their great courage and fortitude in navigating the cold.

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      1. MigraineMonth*

        A narcissist who self-describes as an empath has the impressive Uno Draw 4 Reverse card, though.

        Your dad just died? Wow, the narcissist feels terrible about that. So terrible! Worse than you, even, because they’re experiencing all your grief, plus their own sadness, and they feel everything so much deeper than others. They’re a total wreck right now, barely holding things together, and they really need your support to get through this terrible time for them.

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          1. Jenesis*

            Okay, but that’s not empathy. That’s sympathy or compassion.

            I consider myself a not-especially-empathetic person and in the “coworker whose dad just died” scenario, I don’t honestly think I could say I have empathy for them, because I’ve never lost a dad (or any other important family member) and the best I could do to “empathize” would be to imagine how it might feel based on actor portrayals in movies and TV. Most likely I’d just be feeling mildly uncomfortable, especially if I didn’t know the coworker well. But I do have enough social awareness to realize 1) they are probably in distress 2) it would be good if someone could help and 3) I should take their lead on what actions would be considered “helpful.”

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    3. Jackalope*

      He sounds like a jerk, but remember that one of the site rules is no diagnosing people from letters. We aren’t therapists (at least not most of us), none of us are DAVE’S therapist, and we only have second-hand information how he’s acting. Again, he’s clearly being a jerk, but beyond that we simply don’t have enough information to tell. (And honestly, we don’t need more to give the OP suggestions on what to do. It doesn’t sound like she has firing capabilities over him so she can’t go that route. All she can do is figure out her own personal response and potentially report it to management or HR if he doesn’t back off.)

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      1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        +1. I’m sooooooo tired of people yelling “narcissist” about every person who’s a jerk. IMO, it’s a form of ableism to assume that if anyone is annoying or unpleasant, they must be mentally ill. Plenty of people are self-absorbed, arrogant, etc. without being a narcissist.

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        1. ASD always*

          I’ve only seen people making this complaint in the last few years when apparently everyone forgot that “narcissistic” has meant “self-absorbed” for eons and assumed that it can only mean “has NPD”.

          Like a person can be obsessive without having OCD, they can be a narcissist without having NPD.

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            1. Hroethvitnir*

              But calling everyone who acts like a jerk “a narcissist” (not just narcissistic) is *absolutely* related to the idea they’re in a discrete group of Bad People, with a conveniently blurry line between whether you’re referring to a personality disorder or a non-medicalised othering. It’s really unhelpful and 100% related to the stigma and dehumanisation of people with personality disorders.

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              1. ThatOtherClare*

                Nah.

                They’re not saying ‘He has NPD’, they’re saying he’s a narcissist. A narcissist is someone who displays narcissistic behaviours. A person with NPD is a person with a specific personality disorder defined by a list of traits outlined in the DSM-5 and diagnosed by a professional. Newborn babies are, quite factually, narcissists. They’re also self-absorbed jerks who will make your life unpleasant until they get their way – just ask any new parent. Life threatening injury temporarily turns people into narcissists. It’s not helpful for survival to be worried about politeness when you’re screaming at someone to call 911 and bring you the first aid kit. Staying alive is a widely-accepted reason to be a narcissist, for a baby or an adult. The state in itself carries no stigma. There’s only stigma if you’re doing it in non-objectively-life-threatening situations.

                People don’t rush out from all corners of the internet to complain about stigma when we describe an over-tired child hopped up on sugar as hyperactive, or describe a person’s fears about an upcoming interview as anxiety, or describe a person who is recently bereaved as being depressed. Much like we can say interview fears are anxiety, we can say narcissistic behaviours are narcissism. They’re just not clinical anxiety or NPD.

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          2. Irish Teacher.*

            But recently, I have seen it used not only for people who are self-absorbed but for anybody who does anything wrong. Like “my ex was a narcissist because he cheated on me”. Or I’ve seen it used as a synonym for “abuser,” I guess because there was some talk online about narcissist abuse so some people picked up on that and jumped to thinking of narcissist and abuser as one and the same.

            Not every bully or jerk is a narcissist either in the sense of being self-absorbed or having NPD.

            That said, Dave does sound self-absorbed, whether that is due to a diagnosable condition or more likely, just because it’s his personality or due to previous experiences.

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    4. The Cosmic Avenger*

      Yup. I found this part very interesting: “He also has some other quirks such as never washing his dishes (to the point we have to put his coffee in a paper cup instead of a glass one, because he will leave dishes to literally rot on his desk)…” [emphasis mine]

      Apparently all of his “quirks” impose on other people, and he considers it their responsibility to solve his issues. He’s the broken step, but fully intentionally.

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      1. Observer*

        Apparently all of his “quirks” impose on other people, and he considers it their responsibility to solve his issues. He’s the broken step, but fully intentionally.

        This x 1,000

        You put into words one of the things that was getting under my skin.

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  10. Snarkus Aurelius*

    Dave isn’t an empath because that’s not the definition of “empath,” as AAM accurately noted. (I think of empaths as more of a John Edward or Long Island Medium type who can do cold reads. Any astute person can point out the obvious or make decent guesses and come to a logical conclusion.)

    If Dave balks at your pushback, ask him why he’s not picking up on your feelings of discomfort, you know, as an empath. I’d love to know the answer.

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    1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

      (Probably not the most helpful response, but probably not the least accurate either.)

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      2. Khatul Madame*

        Eh, this would likely lead Dave to mansplain the meaning of the word “empath” and devolve into a semantics discussion. I would just use plain language and say: “Dave, if you are an empath, you should perceive that your comments on (Jane’s laugh, Bob’s baldness, whatever he picks on) offend us. We’d like you to stop doing this.”
        Also: “Dave, you you are an empath, you should be able to perceive how disgusted your dirty dishes make us feel.”

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  11. Strive to Excel*

    “Came out as an empath”

    That’s not a thing.

    And like many other things at work, the response *should* be:

    “That’s nice, but you still need to not comment on Jane laughing/not gossip/actually wash your own dishes/show up to work on time, because that’s all part of being a respectful coworker”.

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  12. Boof*

    Internet rumor is self proclaimed “empaths” are just… selfish jerks. XD Not anything I’ve had personal experience with but I don’t think “empath” is a legit diagnosis, needs special accommodation, etc and if you think they are acting like a jerk they probably are, handle accordingly.

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    1. Boof*

      Sorry LW, I should spell out – feel free to call Dave out for every mean or belittling thing they say. Mean comment about boss? “Wow, that sounds mean.” Pointing out how hard you laugh? “Is there a reason you’re singling me out?” etc. Mostly make it a closed statement and if Dave has Explanations just say “Hm, please stop” and move on. Low key but boring call out constantly.

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    2. ferrina*

      It’s not recognized by the DSM (Diagnostic Statistic Manual, the definitive text for mental health diagnoses).

      High sensitivity is a legit psychological term that sort of overlaps with ’empath’. A highly sensitive person has higher sensitivity and reactivity to both emotional and physical stimuli. This can be common in certain mental health conditions (include PTSD and ADHD). More on this here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/highly-sensitive-person#:~:text=The%20term%20%22Highly%20Sensitive?msockid=0d1f351628096c1a06f421ab295b6d53

      Note that “making mean comments” isn’t on there at all.

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      1. Dust Bunny*

        I mean, this is me and my autism, but of course that’s not how the Daves of the world use it. (And even if that’s what it did mean, you would think that part of being empathetic would be considering how your reaction affects the other person.)

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        1. ferrina*

          It doesn’t sound like Dave is formally asking for accommodations. He’s just telling coworkers that he expects them to clean up his mess.

          As for accommodations- those are still a negotiation, not a declaration. If the company accepts “I get to say whatever I want” as an accommodation, that wasn’t a good company to begin with.

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          1. Boof*

            I’m really talking about personal accommodations as much as formal accommodations, presumably the “coming out as an empath” has some sort of ask associated with it (maybe not, but from the sound of the letter, my impression is LW is second guessing whether they need to factor that in somehow; I would say no)

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      3. Mango Freak*

        Also a lot of people are just more *insightful* because they’ve had a lot of experience dealing with other people’s behavior and the signs that often precede it.

        I’ve been told I often see when an interaction is heading towards conflict sooner than others do. It’s not because people’s feelings invade my feelings–it’s because I grew up around high-conflict people AND because I spent decades doing theatrical script analysis.

        There’s also the fact that I just pay attention to the people around me and even *attempt* to predict their behavior. I’m not always right, but I seem to make the attempt a lot more often than some people do. We remember the times we’re right.

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        1. Bird names*

          Oh, good catch on your last point. I try to occasionally note to myself when predictions, whether about other people’s reactions or future events turn out wrong.
          @Mango Freak: do you use those skills to deescalate or do you prefer to mostly stay out of it?

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  13. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Dave is right about one thing: he should definitely stay home when he has a cold. Otherwise, this guy definitely sucks.

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    1. Boof*

      that stuck out to me too as perhaps the only thing I wouldn’t call Dave out on – yes stay home when sick everyone else has it wrong there if dave’s the only one doing it! XD (or I suppose if essential workers wear a mask, wash hands, isolate, etc as much as possible if minor illness one can work through)

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    2. Pokemon Go To The Polls*

      Came here to comment this!!
      If more people stayed home when sick, there would be less crud going around.

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    4. Michelle Smith*

      Yes, please and thank you. Just because it’s not COVID doesn’t mean I want to catch it. Stay home with your sniffles!

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    5. Green Tea*

      Yeah, I’m surprised OP would have the expectation that he WOULD come in when he has a cold – it’s the people coming in sick who are the problem, there. He sounds like a jerk on every other front, but OP please, please do not forget the lessons on virus transmission so many of us learned the hard way during Covid.

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  14. My Boss is Dumber than Yours*

    What Dave is describing isn’t even what being an empath means (if it really exists, which is debatable). He’s closer to defining Highly Sensitive Person, but then trying to use it as an excuse for being a jerk. The point of understanding yourself isn’t to figure out what excuse you have for your behavior; it’s to understand how to control it.

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    1. Nicosloanica*

      I too wondered if Dave was thinking of “highly sensitive people” and including being empathic in that bucket. Never a huge fan of that line of thought although I do recall seeing the book out a lot of places during whatever era that was.

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  15. Wendy Darling*

    The venn diagram of “self-declared empath” and “actually just a jerk” has a lot of overlap. A LOT. (I think Shane Dawson is probably the most famous example.) Perfectly nice actually-empathetic people seem less likely to feel the need to tell people how empathetic they are.

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  17. Ultimate Facepalm*

    Sensitive people are usually only sensitive to themselves – not others. Sounds like that’s the case with Dave. He’s just selfish and mean.
    I would be saying ‘Well that’s not very emapthetic – I thought you said you are an empath!’ to every single rude comment.

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    2. Elbe*

      I agree completely with all of the advice to leverage Dave’s image of himself as an empath to get him to make some changes. Even if his personality doesn’t change, he may modify his behavior at work to save face.

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  18. kalli*

    Side note, but Dave staying home when he has a cold is a good thing and ‘other people come in’ doesn’t mean they should be. People should stay home when they have colds, and if Dave can do it and other people can’t, then maybe look at that instead.

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    1. ElizWiz*

      Yup, Dave seems highly annoying in several ways, but this isn’t one of them. Don’t come into work if you’re sick–have we learned nothing in the last 5 years?

      Reply ↓
    2. WS*

      Yeah, I get that everything Dave does is now annoying, but don’t focus on his absence – just enjoy it, and enjoy not having his germs (or imaginary germs).

      Reply ↓
  19. Dust Bunny*

    I have never known an “empath” who wasn’t fundamentally a drama-seeking emotional vampire.

    The thing is, most of us can tell when someone is feeling off or is upset about something, we just have the boundaries to not say anything in public or to use it as a vehicle for our own acting out. One of my coworkers is Going Through Some Stuff right now. She gave us a basic summary but hasn’t elaborated since. I can tell when she’s stressed but we’re not personally close enough for me to be her confidante so unless she seems really done in or asks me for help, I’m not going to butt in. She’s an adult and can presumably handle this/ask for help, and she doesn’t need me poking her wounds or making her feel scrutinized at work.

    Reply ↓
    1. Tau*

      It’s a really funny thing – I’m autistic, and when I was younger it felt like everyone and their dog was telling me that this was a crippling social disability and I would never make it in life without being able to tell the subtle details of what people were feeling…

      …and yet I’ve come to the conclusion that in a lot of situations it’s more like a superpower. I can generally parse emotions that people are actively deliberately projecting, but am totally useless at anything they’re trying to hide. And I’ve come to the conclusion that that’s pretty much perfect, because in most situations you should be ignoring the emotion that someone is trying not to show. Like, if they wanted you to comment on it, take it into account, or talk to them about it, they wouldn’t be… hiding… it…? I can think of a few times where someone brought up someone else’s hidden emotion and it just felt massively inappropriate every time (and it is beyond weird when you’re the autistic oblivious one tutting at how the socially adept one tuned into other people’s emotions is violating social norms, let me tell you.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Hroethvitnir*

        That does sound like a super power! As a certified Tumblrina I get a bit frustrated by claims that body language and tone are meaningless allistic rubbish, because, well, we’re animals and they are a big part of communication.

        But! We’re also bias machines, so I absolutely agree that the cognitive empathy of a lot of autistic people is far kinder than many allistic people’s so called (affective) empathy.

        I worked with a (probably autistic, no idea if she pursued a diagnosis) woman who could not read body language or tone *at all*. She also had a very flat affect. This was enough to be somewhat of a problem in her social functioning, but! It was a magical shield against the intense, subtle bullying in that workplace.

        My favourite was the other similar woman (I feel comfortable saying autistic people are over-represented in animal care fields – and science, where I am now – I in fact measure as “maybe look into that” on self-assessment though I’m pretty sure that’s ADHD overlap/being a nerd and not in the cool way) who would just plainly call out the attempted manipulation by the bully and we’d all watch her flounder with glee. Beautiful. (The only actual solution was leaving, as the owner loved Bully. Sigh.)

        Reply ↓
      2. Dust Bunny*

        I’m also autistic but I’m actually really good at picking up the hidden emotions. I guess I think of it as more like reading animals? But I still ignore them unless the person actually says something to me or is so visibly distressed that I think they might need something from me that they are hesitant to ask (if they say “no” I don’t press on).

        Reply ↓
  21. ReallyBadPerson*

    Dave is a covert narcissist, also known as a vulnerable narcissist. Rather than being grandiose, they are just “special.”

    Reply ↓
  22. Who knows*

    Sigh. Lately I’ve seen a lot of sociopaths call themselves empaths as a manipulative technique. I’ve even had a doctor try to pull this trick on me as he simultaneously ignored my panic attack.

    Reply ↓
    1. The other sage*

      There are dark empaths, who are people able to detect and understand how others feel, but misuse that information for either personal gain or just to harm for fun. However I doubt that Dave is a dark empath.

      Reply ↓
      1. Cthulhu's Librarian*

        There are not.

        There are manipulative people who use emotions to manipulate others. But there is exactly zero evidence that empaths, or dark empaths exist. Please stop ascribing run of the mill (if crappy) human behaviors to quasi-mystical nonsense.

        Reply ↓
      2. hiraeth*

        Most people can detect and understand how others feel, to a greater or lesser extent. Some people are cruel. Sometimes cruelty and perceptiveness are both strongly present in the same person, but we don’t really need a special term for this. It’s not that unique. That’s not a ‘dark empath’, it’s a plain old manipulative jerk.

        Reply ↓
  23. Meep*

    Adding to Alison’s advice on how to deal with him. “Why would you say that?” after staring for a couple of a seconds and a few blinks often does the trick.

    Reply ↓
    1. Soon to be ex spouse*

      I will bet money on him yelling “you don’t get it!” And storming out of the room

      Let us know how it goes!

      Reply ↓
    1. MigraineMonth*

      “Dark Empath” sounds even more like a D&D opponent than “Empath” sounds like a Star Trek alien ability, so I’m having a bit of trouble taking the article seriously.

      “Dark Empath” also seems like a pretty grandiose term for what sounds like fair-whether and/or manipulative friends. Yes, certain types of using someone work a lot better if the con artists have enough EQ to manipulate others’ emotions, but there are also a lot of con artists without charisma who just rely on tried-and-true techniques like finding people at a vulnerable time and love-bombing them.

      Reply ↓
  25. KeinName*

    He‘s inhibiting you enjoying and connecting to your coworkers. I’m doing an unkind interpretation now: I‘d say he gets off on making you self-conscious about your laugh, and being provided with special cups and holding court about his perceived personality traits.
    So how to handle that? Take back your space. Just laugh loudly, don’t answer, don’t engage, don’t listen to his ideas about your behaviour, don’t stand around giving him space to explain stuff.

    Reply ↓
  26. Bob*

    Empath:

    “I judge people based on imaginary feelings I get when I look at them that I have pulled wholesale from my ass”

    Reply ↓
  27. TWB*

    Dave: Makes mean remark:

    Me: For someone who identifies as an empath, the accepted definition of which is “a person who has an unusually strong ability to feel other people’s emotional or mental states”, you’d figure you would know already that your comments are going to come across as hurtful, and elect not to say them. What’s up with that??”

    Reply ↓
  28. kanada*

    I think we can recognize that self-described “empaths” are often co-opting psychology-speak to make themselves sound more valid and avoid doing the same thing with “sociopath” or “narcissist”. Dave can just be a person who’s acting shitty, we don’t need to diagnose someone who none of us know to make sense of that.

    Reply ↓
    1. Soon to be ex spouse*

      Yes, this is why i refuse to engage in speculation over whether someone is a narcissist.

      I mean, outside of asking my therapist and best friends. But yeah, focus on the behavior

      Reply ↓
  29. Moose*

    In my experience, most people who describe themselves as empaths are jerks with no boundaries. It’s just another form of weaponized therapy-speak. I tend to avoid them.

    If he makes you uncomfortable, bring it up to your manager. But only describe the behavior that needs to stop, not the reasons he’s given behind the behavior. The problem isn’t that Dave is an empath and stays home when he has a cold, the problem is that Dave misses a lot of work and it affects you in X Y Z ways or that he makes pointed comments about how you laugh that and you feel self-conscious.

    Good luck. Dave sounds like a jerk.

    Reply ↓
  30. Minimal Pear*

    “Empath” is one of those keywords that make me immediately go “Ah yes, I understand, you are the OPPOSITE of what you say you are” due to my experiences with them. See also people who talk up what great communicators they are.

    Reply ↓
  31. Sherm*

    I worked with a guy who was somewhat like first-paragraph Dave; he would say something weird and then follow it up with “Sherm looks half-amused and half-puzzled there” (when I really just wanted him to leave me alone). I finally just said “No face police” to a couple of his comments, and he fortunately got the message.

    Reply ↓
  32. dulcinea47*

    Empath is generally a word only used by people who are going to use it as a reason to be a jerk.

    I’m not saying that some folks aren’t more empathetic than others, I’m saying the people who self label with that term usually suck and want to use it as an excuse for their own bad behavior. This fits completely with what you’re seeing. So when you tell him to rein it in, don’t expect him to learn anything or take responsibility. He’s gonna blame and deflect.

    Reply ↓
    1. Soon to be ex spouse*

      Well they have to blame you because nothing is their fault

      Perhaps an empath is a narcissist who realizes they have a public relations problem…

      Reply ↓
  34. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

    On top of all the other “Dave’s not an empath, he’s a jerk” above – I found myself wondering, why is it anybody else’s responsibility to put his coffee in any sort of cup? Do y’all really fetch coffee for this jerk instead of making him go get it himself?

    Reply ↓
  35. lyonite*

    Dave reminds me of the facebook friends who take an online quiz and excitedly declare themselves to be a person of great sensitivity or whatever, and you’re sitting there thinking, “the last time I saw you, you insulted my face.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Bast*

      The people who need to proclaim it the loudest fit the definition the least a la the “I’m a nice guy” people who throw it in everyone’s faces what an absolute joy they are, and anyone else who disagrees is a BIG PROBLEM, and “what’s wrong with society these days” while they are anything but a nice guy. Genuinely nice guys exist, just as I believe truly empathetic folks do, but they usually don’t go around announcing it all over social media and to everyone they meet. They just ARE. “A lion doesn’t have to tell you it’s a lion” and all that. The people I know who announced that that that they were nice guys/empaths (those two groups in particular stuck out to me) wanted everyone on earth to know and made a point to bring it up over and over.

      Reply ↓
  36. Observer*

    Dave: “Oh, you sure are laughing”
    You: Yes, I am. Raise eyebrows with an enquiring look.

    Dave: ‘“Look how hard Jane is laughing.”
    You: And?

    In other words respond is a way that doesn’t dispute the factual part of the statement, but makes it clear that you see how *strange* he is being. NOT “empathetic” or “empathic” or anything like that. Just flat out weird. What you say is not what’s making the workplace uncomfortable. It’s Dave.

    Because it is not *you* who is not acting according to a reasonable social code. It’s Dave. 100% Dave.

    Cleaning up after yourself is not something that should be affected by “feeling emotions deeply”.

    Being Mr. Obvious in a way that any reasonable person would find rude is not something I would expect any “empath” to do, unless they are also a masochist. After all no, pointing out that you are laughing is clearly making you uncomfortable – and that’s the kind of reaction that anyone with any reasonable ability to read a situation would expect. So why would someone who “feels deeply” set up a situation to “feel” your discomfort “deeply”? (Hint, because he is NOT an “empath”. But he *is* a jerk who is happy to make you uncomfortable.)

    Making mean spirited jokes about anyone is about as empathetic as throwing stones at people. When it’s your boss or someone who is in treatment for cancer it’s added levels of non-empathy, for different reasons.

    Reply ↓
  37. Ms. Yvonne*

    OMG, Dave makes me want to mess with his head! e.g. “I know you’ve mentioned you’re empathetic and care a lot about people’s feelings, so can I ask you to stop commenting on my laughing or other reactions I have? It makes me self-conscious, which I know you don’t want to do.” — could you deliver that totally monotone and then e.g. walk away like a robot or on all fours or something? Dave needs to know people are on to his game.

    Reply ↓
    1. Soon to be ex spouse*

      In my experience with my empath husband, a statement like this will be seen as mocking and manipulative, rather than a radically honest way to relate to someone through the language they’ve used. But good luck!
      Oh excuse me, he is soon to be my ex husband. So, on my end, everything did work out !

      Reply ↓
      1. Elle*

        I mean, it is manipulative, if you define “please stop being mean to me” as manipulative, which a self-described empath probably WOULD….

        Reply ↓
        1. Soon to be ex spouse*

          lol I and my therapist and the marriage counselor describe it as being direct and mature

          That certain soon to be ex describes it as a threat

          Reply ↓
  38. Former Young Lady*

    “I’m an empath” = “I’m the main character, and I get to go around assigning feelings to all the NPCs.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Soon to be ex spouse*

      Yes! So many assumptions. No questions like, “it seems you’re having a strong reaction, would you like to talk about it?” Or what would be most appropriate at work: what do you think?

      Reply ↓
  39. Soon to be ex spouse*

    Coincidentally, my husband who is divorcing me made fun of my laugh, then told me I don’t laugh enough, then agreed he remembered mocking my laugh but did not apologize, and then said he missed my laugh. Then he made me go to marriage counseling where he told me he was an empath and a people-pleaser and could we pleas communicate better and also divorce?

    I agreed pretty quickly to the divorce at that point. I mean, I have empathy for you, dude, having to deal with apparently normal kind reasonable me. Must be hard

    Reply ↓
    1. CommanderBanana*

      Congratulations on your divorce! Using my totally real, definitely not made up Powers of Empathy ™, I sense that you will be much happier without him and wish you all the best.

      Reply ↓
  40. toolegittoresign*

    Resist the urge to throw the “empath” thing back in his face. If he says something that upsets you, find a way to voice that diplomatically in the moment. Trying to be clever or snarky about the “empath” thing will just make it seem like you’re getting personal. His mental health issues are not the problem here. His mean or judgmental comments are.

    Reply ↓
    2. Observer*

      Don’t be mean or snarky. But do not try to be diplomatic.

      Be straight. Ask him what he wants, point out that he’s being rude, whatever. No need to even touch the “empath” thing. It’s just not relevant.

      Reply ↓
      1. toolegittoresign*

        I think saying “That makes me uncomfortable. I ask you to not make comments like that.” is direct but diplomatic in that it doesn’t wade into issues of rude vs not rude. It’s “I don’t want to hear it.” which takes away any possibility of quibbling over whether he “meant to be rude” or “I was joking.”

        Reply ↓
  41. Bike Walk Barb*

    Does Dave know you’re autistic? Because if he does, pointing out your responses and commenting on them feels like a form of harassment that should be reported to HR, if that’s something you’re comfortable doing and if it fits with how you’re managing your work life and cognitive needs.

    Even if he doesn’t know, being perceived as something whether it’s genuinely your identity or not is also a protected status, if I recall correctly (and I’m not a lawyer so no guarantees there).

    Dave isn’t anyone I’d want to work with and I’m not autistic.

    Reply ↓
    1. Soon to be ex spouse*

      That’s actually a really good point that I didn’t catch

      OP do you or your co-workers think Empath is targeting your expression or communication of emotions in particular?

      If so, that is definitely worth bringing up, whether or not he knows you are on the spectrum

      Reply ↓
    2. MigraineMonth*

      Yes, the ADA protects you from harassment for a disability or perceived disability. (Note the ADA doesn’t actually apply to all US businesses, but most will try to shut down this type of harassment anyway.)

      Occasionally pointing out OP’s responses probably doesn’t qualify as harassment yet, but it may if it continues or escalates after OP asks for Dave to stop. OP, if that happens, please talk to HR or your manager (or his manager) and use the phrase “discrimination based on a perceived disability”. Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  42. FunkyMunky*

    side note but others coming in with colds or headaches is not a flex people think it is
    that’s maybe one thing Dave is doing right!

    Reply ↓
  44. anon this time*

    Sometimes it means “I am easily upset by little things, and it should be everyone else’s problem too.” As distinct from someone who reacts visibly to small things, and often needs a moment to wipe away tears, who asks their friends and family to ignore those reactions.

    If there’s nothing really wrong, or if the problem is that I’m brooding about something unrelated, the last thing I want is attention to it. So “no, really, I’m fine, tell me what happened next.” Not “I’m an empath, someone here is clearly unhappy.”

    Reply ↓
  45. Quinalla*

    Feel free to use his self image of an empath to try to get him on board or feel free to ignore it. It really doesn’t matter, he still needs to stop being a jerk to people.

    Though frankly I agree with most here that he is definitely NOT an empath, he may be highly sensitive or something else like that, but what he has described to you and his actions are not things do not add up to empath. Some highly sensitive people are empaths, but not all or even most, and he is willfully or innocently thinking they are the same maybe, who knows!

    Reply ↓
  46. Dawn*

    If I’m understanding this correctly and he’s being mean about your boss’s cancer treatments and your boss/grandboss doesn’t know about that, I think you almost have an obligation to speak up. Maybe not directly to your boss (I wouldn’t want to tell someone all the nasty things someone said about their cancer (!!)) but I would sit down with your grandboss and bring it to her attention, preferably by asking how she’d like you to respond when Dave starts making mean-spirited jokes about your (and presumably his) boss. If your grandboss is any good at her job whatsoever, she’ll be suitably horrified and put a stop to it immediately.

    Reply ↓
  47. AnonInCanada*

    For example: “I know you’ve mentioned you’re empathetic …

    I think if you leave of the “em” from “empathetic,” this would describe Dave.

    Reply ↓
    1. sometimeswhy*

      HA! Now I just had a whole wildly unlikely and definitely not recommended scenario play out where someone uses pathetic instead of empathetic over and over when talking to Dave and pretends that’s what they meant. “Sorry, I’m always mixing those up. Anyway Dave, since you’re pathetic… oh no there I go again!”

      Reply ↓
  48. 2 Cents*

    This guy sounds like my friend’s ex-husband who would say something really, really mean to someone, then say “but I was joking!” and then back it up with “I studied social work! Clearly I understand people!” (Spoiler alert: he did not.)

    Also, if he still focuses on you, feel free to push back with “Please stop commenting on my reactions” or “how strange that you focus on me that way.”

    Reply ↓
  50. bleu*

    “Empath” is a well-known red flag word for highly dramatic, self-centered people who gas up their own hype about how “sensitive” they are but are just a nightmare to be around and decline to learn to read the room or put any checks on their own behavior.

    Reply ↓
  51. Dog momma*

    He’s not an empath, he’s an azzhat. Bring it to his attention once, then let someone in management take care of it..bc HE’S not going to listen to YOU. that’s not a criticism of you.. his rationale is ” you’re too sensitive or you’re not the boss of me”.

    Reply ↓
  52. Beatrice*

    The word “empath” is just so irritating to me. When someone tells me they’re an empath it sounds like they’re saying “I’m more empathetic than you are, and I feel emotions more deeply than you do.” I would argue that actually I am equally as empathetic and emotional, the difference is that empaths are worse at handling difficult emotions. Just because I can handle my emotions in a reserved/private manner doesn’t mean I don’t feel deeply.

    Reply ↓
  53. CityMouse*

    I don’t care what he is. However you feel your emotions, the management of your emotions is your own responsibility and taking it out on coworkers is unacceptable.

    Reply ↓
    1. goddessoftransitory*

      THANK you. Even if you are a literal Betazoid, it’s your responsibility to manage your filters and issues!

      Reply ↓
  54. handfulofbees*

    Yeah just wanna dip in – had a new coworker this year who described himself as an empath. He was highly unpleasant to be around, constantly saying misogynist stuff, rambling without letting others get a word in, kept talking about women he’d slept with–

    Finally got his ass fired after he said that if he had queer kids he would beat them. Probably 90% of my coworkers are queer. Empath my ass. I was kind of waiting for him to do something horrific to bring to my bosses, but I didn’t even have to do anything

    Your guy is a jerk who is using this word to try and cover it. Do the bosses know about his horrific behavior? They should want this kind of toxic behavior gone, yesterday.

    Reply ↓
  55. Vio*

    He is not an empath. He may well be something else ending in “path” (but we don’t have enough information, or qualifications, to judge) but the only “em” is (phonetically) for Mean. It’s becoming increasingly common for psychological terms to be thrown around and used incorrectly in conversation (eg: my earlier joke. Does that make it hypocritical humour or self demonstrating?) and jerks hiding behind terms like “empath” is just a newer version of “I’m not Xist but…” and “with all due respect”.

    Reply ↓
  56. Suck It Up Buttercup*

    I also have a coworker who claims to be an empath, and yet she is often insensitive and lacks awareness of other people (no, she is not autistic). I do not think these two things can be reconciled.

    She doesn’t sound as bad as Dave because she doesn’t frequently call people out on their reactions (though she has in the past), and I don’t have to worry about her not doing her dishes (though I did have to ask her not to throw banana peels/apple cores/peach pits/etc out in her desk trash on a Monday when we’re a small office and generally only take the trash out on Friday afternoons, because we were getting fruit flies). And she doesn’t call out of work due to “being an empath” but she does come in and mope and say she doesn’t know who is hurting so much but she wishes she could help them because it’s hurting her. She’ll ask all 8 of us if we’re OK – no, really OK – because she senses that someone is deeply upset.

    But the best (/s) is how she’ll be sitting at her desk working and all of the sudden just kind of gasp. And it startles all of us and we say “what’s wrong?” And she’ll say something like “I don’t know, I just had this overwhelming wave of sadness hit me.”

    I don’t know if I believe in empaths – I’m a skeptic by nature. But I definitely don’t think I believe that she is feeling random emotions from people who aren’t even in her vicinity, I call BS.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ms. Norbury*

      That sounds incredibly annoying as well, even if her behavior isn’t as extreme as Dave’s.

      In you place, when she came to me asking if I’m ok because she senses a disturbance in the force or something, I’d be terribly tempted to ask her “Have you ever considered the possibility that some of the emotions you feel might actually be, you know, YOURS? As in, they come 100% from your own body?”.

      I probably wouldn’t, TBH. But I’d be so, so tempted.

      Reply ↓
    2. CommanderBanana*

      I believe some people are more empathetic than others, just like how some people are better at drawing or catching a ball than others, but I don’t believe in empaths.

      Reply ↓
    3. Hroethvitnir*

      Incredible. I was never entirely clear whether people who call themselves “empaths” actually think they have a magical power like this or just lacking understanding that other people also have empathy (ironically).

      I appreciate the confirmation at least some are the former. My sympathies – I really don’t know how I’d cope with that.

      Reply ↓
  57. Nicole Coelho Antoun*

    He’s making jokes about somebody going through cancer treatment? Are we sure he didn’t mean “sociopath” when he said he was an “empath”?

    Reply ↓
  59. Space Needlepoint*

    Everyone I’ve ever met who called themselves an empath had major boundary issues: either not having any of their own, not respecting others’ or both.

    Reply ↓
  60. Festively Dressed Earl*

    Go to H.R. Given that Dave is going out of his way to make a neurodivergent coworker feel uncomfortable about their facial expressions and to make jokes about another coworker with cancer, he seems to have confused “empath” with “walking ADA violation.” Someone needs to set him straight about the difference.

    Reply ↓
  61. Head Sheep Counter*

    I identify myself as deeply empathetic and responsive to high emotion. But… the older I get the more I realize that its based in trauma and needing sooth away something that could/is dangerous to me. I have yet to (as far as I can recall) pull out an asshole maneuver and then wave my hands around saying but I’m empathetic.

    Here’s what it looks like in my life:
    You cry, I get misty and good gravy if I go to a funeral… it moves to being one of those mourners you could hire in days past (full on crying)
    You get mad, I try to diffuse… Thank heavens I’ve not been in a crowd of mad but I think I know how mob mentality gets ugly.
    You get negative about XY or Z, I join the negativity (huzzah for having realized this one and now divert myself when I catch it).

    Basically… emotion mirroring or deflecting.
    The big downsides are… emotions that aren’t really mine and energy wasted trying to regulate someone elses stuff (not that they necessarily asked me to anyhow).

    Also, I presume I know that what I’ve read… is right. Which sometimes is wrong sometimes… that expression on that random person’s face… it was gas or a passing thought or… RBF.

    Reply ↓
    1. I Have RBF*

      This is a good description of what I consider empathic ability. I wish I didn’t have it, because it has me paying far too much attention to my perception of others’ emotional state, probably as a childhood defense mechanism.

      Reply ↓
  62. Having a Scrummy Week*

    “He is absent very often due to things such as not having slept well or having a cold, things other people still come in for.”

    I mean… everyone has different levels of tolerance for lack of sleep. If I don’t sleep a few days in a row I am utterly useless and need to rest.

    Nobody should be going to work with a cold, because they could get others very sick.

    Reply ↓
    1. Unkempt Flatware*

      Agreed. Separate that part from his weirdness because that is not the weird part. Loss of sleep is very detrimental to me and I am barely aware that other people exist so this isn’t about being an empath.

      Reply ↓
  63. Fiachra*

    “Is there anything I could possibly do to make him stop making these comments without making the office an uncomfortable place to be in?”

    LW, that ship has already sailed and it was your coworker’s doing. Pushing back is how you make the office LESS uncomfortable. But word to the wise, I would expect a person like that to try to twist the situation to make themselves the victim. Just be aware that’s a possibility.

    Reply ↓
    1. Alz*

      Yes! came to say this too. He is making the office uncomfortable and pointing it is not a “you” thing. Also, I would suspect that you are not the only one to feel uncomfortable so the total level of “uncomfortableness” is likely to go down if it is addressed

      Reply ↓
  64. Unkempt Flatware*

    I have a Dave. He will watch me like this and then make conclusions. “I can tell you’re upset since you were twiddling your thumbs so frantically”. He has never even been in the ballpark of correct. What has worked for me is immediately putting a hand up, ignoring the content of his comment, and responding firmly with, “Please don’t monitor me or my person like that. It is not welcome.” I really think it is the hand up and firm tone that works.

    Reply ↓
  65. Liz*

    Dave is a jerk, for sure!

    But as a minor aside, it is, in fact, kind to not come into work when you are sick with anything, even a cold, even if that’s pretty counter-cultural in most of the world. We could all do with a little less spreading of disease.

    Reply ↓
  66. Raida*

    Firstly, always call him out on it.
    Secondly, tell your boss.
    Thirdly, so you’re “not picking on anyone” have a regular five minute desk clean once a week where everyone’s desk is tidied up and given a wipe down and cups and plates go get washed up. Sets a good standard for new staff, too.

    The solution, in my experience, to someone refusing to clean up their cups and plates at work? Their manager telling them to do it explicitly. How so? Well the Executive Director (great manager) who was two levels up made a 15 minute catch up meeting with the dude, which was him instructing him to pick up everything, then they walked to the kitchen, and he watched him wash it all, dry it, put it away. This confirmed the dude *did* know how without instructions. Then they went back to his desk, he was instructed to empty the bin, wipe the desk down, and told this now is the expected appearance and cleanliness of your desk. I expect it to reach this state once a week, pick your own preferred day & time, and you will not leave in the afternoon without washing up.

    Why did that finally work? Because the dude never realised the Executive Director could notice and *his direct manager never did anything*. He just thought he could be a slob and meh the people around him (women) who didn’t like it – they can do the washing up eh heh heh.
    Yeah. Scared him, embarrassed him, and gave his direct manager clear rules this dude was supposed to follow which *also* held that manager to a level of performance.

    oh, and Lastly – is this dude is an empath then he’s also a masochist, hah! Making people uncomfortable and unhappy is not something an empath would do because it would make themselves uncomfortable and unhappy too. So he’s just a tool who wants to be a special little snowflake and realised at some point that saying “I’m sensitive” means people give him more leeway and are less likely to call him out on bullshit.

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  67. Sparkles McFadden*

    None of this is on you and you can’t fix Dave. Dave’s self-labeling is beside the point. This is similar to the obnoxious people who pre-explain their rude and offensive behavior by saying they’re “honest” and then proceed to insult everyone within earshot. All you can do is set boundaries. Have a few stock phrases ready to go and repeat as often as necessary:

    – “I laughed because that was funny. Let it go, Dave.”
    – “I have to concentrate so I can’t talk to you right now.”
    – “That was a pretty mean comment. I don’t know why you’d say that because I think the boss is a pretty good boss.”
    – “Wash your dishes, Dave, or we’re going to get rodents.”

    Dave being out sick is irrelevant unless you get Dave’s work dumped on you when he’s out. If that’s the case, that’s something to work out with the boss. I think you have to work on not caring about Dave and what he thinks. That can be difficult but it gets easier with practice. (…and maybe you can switch desks at some point.)

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  68. Cam*

    I knew someone who seemed to have deep deficits in expressing normal social emotions (in a tongue tied and shy kind of direction) and compensated by looking to more expressive people to say what needed saying.
    It would fit OP’s account if Dave was somewhere in this direction – to Dave, Dave feels more than he can express, so he’s trying to convey that with the “empath” label. Dave is also excluded from the normal-social-interactions club, so he’s looking to OP as an expressive surrogate.
    If he’s shy and you think he’s throwing attention onto you, your best response is a direct question to him that needs a verbal answer. I would reply with a, “what do you think about [work topic], Dave?” every time. He may learn that using you as his emotional surrogate is risky.

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    1. Cam*

      I might even go to, “Hey, everybody look at Dave now, is he smiling?” accompanied by pointing with your finger, especially if it seems likely that that’s an unpleasant experience for Dave. It’s easier to direct attention than to disperse attention.

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  69. kiki*

    There was a meme going around a while ago that was like, “So you say you’re a people pleaser? Name three people who are pleased with you.” I feel like something similar applies for a lot of people who now identify as empaths or other things that are big online in pop psychology. There are a lot of empaths I have met who definitely do not make the people around them feel empathized with or understood. Sometimes these people are genuinely really good and noticing slight differences in behavior but they are often ascribing their own thoughts or feelings or ideas to the other person rather than truly understanding the other person.

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  71. Daria grace*

    Dave is a jerk who needs to take some personal responsibility. Although I don’t personally use the term empath (feels a bit cringe) I definitely feel like I seem to experience my own emotions and perceive other people’s emotions more strongly than is normal. It’s not a virtue and at times it’s annoying and draining. The thing about it is, it’s my responsibility to manage the impacts of that. I am still responsible for behavior of mine that impacts other people. I need to work out how to appropriately build down time into my day so I have the energy to be pleasant to people and if I’m overwhelmed it needs to be things that only impact me I let drop (eg keeping up cleaning my house, not keeping my desk at work clean)

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  72. Correct*

    Here’s a little trick: if someone proudly feels the need to proudly tell people that they’re empathetic (as in “I am a good, empathetic person”) – they actually aren’t, and very likely are narcissists.

    Follow me for more life-advice.

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    1. ThatOtherClare*

      It’s like batteries. You know the ULTRA SUPER EXTRA HEAVY MEGA DUTY batteries are going to be the rubbish ones that only last 3 minutes.

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  74. ThatOtherClare*

    Respectfully, I think there’s a chance that Alison has it wrong here. Based on my experience with self-described empaths, here’s what I would advise:

    Firstly, I wouldn’t tell him about how his actions make you feel. This is likely to make him feel attacked, and he’s likely to retaliate by using that information against you at some inopportune later time.

    Instead, I would simply calmly and lightly state what I want him to stop doing to me. E.g. ‘Please don’t comment on my laugh, Dave’. Make sure you tell him ‘don’t’, not ‘stop’, because ‘don’t’ is a rule, whereas if he stops today he can always start again tomorrow and pretend he didn’t understand what you meant.

    If he tries again later anyway (which is likely, he’ll want to test if you’re any good at holding boundaries), then tell him you’ve already told him not to do that in a still calm but more firm tone of voice. Raise your volume and drop your pitch by a small amount (like the voice people use the second time they say ‘no’ to a cat). E.g. ‘Dave, I told you not to comment on my laugh. Don’t do it again’. That should be enough, although with some people you might have to do it a third time.

    The same technique can be used to tell him ‘Please don’t make jokes about the Boss, Dave.’ or ‘You need to clean up all the coffee cups that are on your desk, Dave.’

    Two more things that tie in to each other. Firstly, you’ll get better results if you use his name when you say these things. Secondly, he’ll look for stupid loopholes in what you say. You’ll notice my previous example wasn’t ‘You need to clean up your collection of coffee cups, Dave’. Most people will understand you to mean the cups on his desk, but Dave will think ‘I don’t collect coffee cups as a hobby, therefore I don’t have a collection of coffee cups, therefore I don’t have to clean anything’. You need to treat him kind of like a malicious genie from the movies and make sure your statements to him are direct and logically watertight with no loopholes. I don’t know why this is such a consistent theme with empaths, but it is. As an autistic person you should be quite good at communicating logically, so feel free to use that to your advantage. Your best Dr Spock impersonation will come in handy here. Good luck, and I hope the Dave situation works out ok for you.

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    1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      I’m pretty sure you meant Mr Spock here. Common mistake. Overall your advice is golden.

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  75. lurker*

    pushing back on a point here because coming in with a cold should not be normal. no one wants your cold, and in fact, you should stay home with one. other people coming in with their colds are the problem, not dave staying home with his.

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  76. Elio*

    There’s a near perfect Venn diagram circle between “people who claim to be empaths and “people who are nasty jerks”.

    Not cleaning up after yourself is a symptom of being a slob and getting sicker for longer with colds probably just means your sinuses suck, assuming he’s not making it up to ditch work.

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  77. Sagegreen will always be a wonderful color.*

    This reminds me that one time at work, I used the Allison method of “what an odd thing to say”, to a coworker of mine and it worked. Oh, and Dave is a jerk and I hate fads.

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  78. Bast11191967*

    I worked with one person who self described herself as am empathy. She was constantly talking about her drama and trauma about her narcissistic dad, husband shevdivorced and boyfriends. very self involved. yet she claimed to be an empath. Hello, if you were an empath, you’d have picked up long ago that you’re annoying as hell and would stop doing it!!!!!

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  79. Bast11191967*

    I worked with one person who self described herself as am empathy. She was constantly talking about her drama and trauma about her narcissistic dad, husband shevdivorced and boyfriends. very self involved. yet she claimed to be an empath. Hello, if you were an empath, you’d have picked up long ago that you’re annoying as hell and would stop doing it!!!!!

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  80. Bast11191967*

    I worked with one person who self described herself as am empathy. She was constantly talking about her drama and trauma about her narcissistic dad, husband shevdivorced and boyfriends. very self involved. yet she claimed to be an empath. Hello, if you were an empath, you’d have picked up long ago that you’re annoying as hell and would stop doing it!!!!! I’d say Dave is a narcissist.

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  81. Female canine*

    IME, self-identified “empaths” are invariably incels trying to pretend they are not, or scary, awful people in other ways. They pick on good-hearted people. I’d try everything suggested but also be looking for an opportunity elsewhere.

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  82. Ailsa McNonagon*

    I’ve yet to meet anyone who describes themselves as ‘an empath’ who doesn’t behave like Dave. I have a relative who describes themselves as an empath, and is possibly the most self-centred, least self-aware person I have ever met.

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  83. daffodil*

    Just to channel Captain Awkward for a moment, OP you would not be the one making the workplace uncomfortable. Dave already has that on lock, you would merely be returning the awkwardness to sender.

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  84. Kelsbells*

    People can be sensitive to others and have empathy but there are very few true Empaths. (No I don’t claim to be one) Most that claim it are definitely not even close and are usually very self absorbed. People like to throw the word around like OCD or narcissistic.

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  85. empathic but absolutely not an empath*

    Word to the wise from a clinical psychologist: While people do vary considerably in their capacity for empathy, being “an empath” is not a thing. “I’m an empath” is a boasting self-diagnosis that more often than not means that the person has *less* empathy than others and is *more* likely to center their own feelings. So, mistrust anyone calling themselves “an empath” and — even if you really feel that you really are more empathic than others — avoid using that word to describe yourself, because it will lead many people to look at you skeptically.

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  86. Catgirl*

    Dave has what Zach Weinersmith once called A$$-berger’s: When you’re NOT neurodivergent but claim to be as an excuse to behave like an a$$hole. Unfortunately it’s common. Actually neurodivergent people do not want to be unkind.

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  87. DrSalty*

    I’ve yet to meet a self described empath who was actually good at reading other people’s emotions. Every single one I’ve ever met was wildly self centered.

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  88. Elizabeth West*

    Dave is full of shit. Empaths are not a thing. He’s a bully and he’s using “empath” as an excuse to bully people.

    OP all you have to say to him next time he points at you and makes a comment is, “Dave, please don’t make comments about me.” That’s it. You owe him no explanations.

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