at what point can I report my inappropriate and inflammatory coworker?

by Alison Green on October 29, 2024

A reader writes:

I’m having an issue with a coworker who I find deeply irritating and, frankly, am embarrassed to be professionally associated with.

I have reported her more egregious actions to our manager and, after my second complaint, started documenting behavior but I don’t know what is actionable and what is petty and interpersonal. I’m also having trouble feeling confident in my judgment in this because she is very well liked by everyone but me and is currently being pursued for a full-time position within the company in a different department. I don’t know if they are aware of how she is but I assume so. She’s not shy. I’m going to call her Kevina after the gloriously infamous Kevin.

My coworker has a habit of saying things that are inappropriate, inflammatory, or politically charged because she thinks it’s funny. It’s constant. I have made two complaints to our manager about her behavior so far because they seemed actionable. The first complaint was when she was bragging about using a random website to find part of my Social Security number. We have access to a system that contains thousands of people’s SSNs, including my own, so this felt like something I should tell my boss. The second complaint was when Kevina came into the office and told us all the reasons she thinks businesses should be able to refuse service to gay people, loudly, while standing five feet away from a customer.

After each complaint, my boss acknowledged that she knows Kevina says inappropriate things and that she “would talk to her.”

Three days after the second report, Kevina starts the shift quiet until she makes a 9/11 joke and moves a stapler through the air while making airplane noises with her mouth and tries to get others to set up water bottles to be her Twin Towers (they refuse). Thirty minutes later she starts telling us in detail how to make a capless water bottle into a dangerous projectile in response to hearing an event hosted by our employer is going to be capless to prevent bottles being used as dangerous projectiles. That was after the second talk, according to my boss. I’ll include other examples of things she’s said at the end for transparency but it’s just a lot.

I’m leaving in two months anyway, so I’m not interested in making this situation better for myself, I’m purely interested in making an HR complaint because it’s absurd that she’s gotten away with acting like this for so long and my manager needs some checking up on for allowing it. That’s just my opinion, though, and I’m doubting myself a bit here. What sorts of things do you consider worthy of documenting for HR that aren’t overtly illegal and what would just be interpersonal? Also my complaints would have to be waterproof because she’s autistic and my company has a history of dismissing complaints against people with disabilities, including a sexual harassment complaint against her, according to her.

And here are those extra examples for context and catharsis: In the past she has told the whole office, including our boss, that she drives drunk and how dangerous she finds it, talked about her gambling addiction and losses, her wish to open a gun store that gives free alcohol with gun purchases, we should “build a wall” between our department and another and attributes complaints to “Biden’s America,” asks the veterans in the adjacent office if specific guns can actually kill people (she has since obtained a firearm that she keeps a secret from her roommates), and went around the office asking for a razor blade so she could cut and snort a pack of Smarties. And then did. Off the desk in the customer-facing front office. She’s sent someone about three levels up from us a Slack asking if she can drink non-alcoholic beer on the clock, on multiple occasions said that our theme for the office decor competition should be the January 6th Insurrection, spent about three weeks asking every male courier who came in the office if they were single and wanted to date a single mom (if nobody tells her to stop, is it sexual harassment?), tried to gather coworker support for a “free Diddy walk-out,” and told a coworker who had just told a light-hearted story about her teenage son doing something silly that she should “follow the American tradition and beat him with a belt and hang him upside down from a drying rack.” She’s also started saying “Ohmm Shaman God” in a weird voice as a sort of prayer? I honestly don’t know why that started, that might just be annoying. I’ve omitted a lot that’s probably just annoying and a few similar to what I’ve listed because it’s been constant for months. Again, thank you for any semblance of sanity you could provide.

Oh my goodness.

All of this is over-the-top ridiculous and offensive, but the “free Diddy” walk-out at least made me laugh (though there is nothing funny about Diddy), as did the snorting cut-up Smarties.

Anyway, it’s definitely true that when you have a coworker who’s this inappropriate, you can start to question what’s actionable versus what’s just personally annoying, but there’s plenty here that a responsible company would act on: the Social Security numbers (!), the instructions for making dangerous projectiles (!), the overt political posturing, the gun talk, the snorting substances while customer-facing, the bigotry toward gay people, and the sexual harassment, for starters.

It’s good that your manager has acknowledged the problem and agreed to talk to Kevina … but it doesn’t sound like those conversations have had any impact, and it’s troubling that your boss hasn’t done anything about that. Does your boss know the problems continued after that? If there’s any chance she doesn’t, it’s worth going back to her to let her know. But otherwise, she’s not giving your team a lot of reason to believe she can effectively manage Kevina, so I can see why you’re considering HR.

I’m not sure your HR team will be any better if they’ve already dismissed a sexual harassment complaint simply because Kevina is autistic, but it’s worth a try — especially since you’re on your way out and so don’t have to be particularly invested. And sometimes even if HR brushes off one complaint, they’ll have a harder time brushing off a pattern of complaints.

Some general principles to help you sort through this: it’s reasonable to escalate complaints that have to do with religious or political proselytizing; anything that physically endangers people; anything that violates people’s privacy or company policy (like those Social Security numbers); any advocacy of violence; or any harassment based on sex, religion, race, sexual orientation, or other protected characteristics. Take all of those to HR, and make sure to use words like “harassment,” “physically endangering employees,” and “privacy invasion” where they apply. Don’t count on them to connect the dots and understand why each incident on its own is actionable; spell it out using words that should ring alarm bells for them.

If something doesn’t fall in those categories, it’s more likely to just be personally annoying without warranting a formal complaint. (Although while things outside those categories might not warrant HR, they could still warrant intervention from your manager simply for the disruption they’re creating.)

Also, let your coworkers know that you’re talking to HR and let them know what comes of it. They might feel more inclined to report issues themselves if they know you’ve paved the way, and their reports will reinforce that there’s a pattern. (Or they might feel less inclined if they know your company doesn’t care to act, but that’s still useful information for them to have.)

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{ 382 comments }

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  1. tabloidtained*

    She sounds like an attention seeker. What do you and/or your coworkers say to her in the moment? Does asking her (bluntly) to stop make a difference?

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah, although this sounds like such a barrage of inappropriateness that I don’t know what OP could ask for, other than “never talk to me again.”

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        I think the barrage is the point.

        It’s like trying to reason with conspiracy theorists–if you engage and carefully point out all the errors, they just zip over to a new conspiracy.

        1. Baela Targaryen*

          If you argue with a pig you’ll both end up covered in shit and only one of you will enjoy it.

        2. WOOLFAN*

          Yes, this! I once had an annoyance-barrage sort of co-worker, and after he’d get called out/asked to stop by enough people in a short enough period of time he’d make a big show of moping as his new attention getter. It’s like when a parent tells one sibling to stop poking the other sibling, so they resort to poking near their sibling without actually touching them. How much can you get away with and still be getting the negative attention you for some reason crave. In this co-worker’s case he was a HUGE procrastinator, and I think a lot of his coming downstairs to annoy folks was an attempt to socialize as a way to avoid doing work he didn’t want to do.

        3. tina turner*

          Yes, it’s not just the content, it’s also how MUCH TIME she takes up w/this stuff.
          It’s disracting & timie-consuming as well as offensive.

    2. GrumpyPenguin*

      Probably smile nervously and shrug it off because “that’s how she is”? At some point you just get used to the madness. And since management doesn’t seem to care, people might feel they can’t do anything about it and try to ignore her. Kevina isn’t just a Missing Stair, she is a whole staircase. On fire.

    3. OP*

      She’s definitely an attention seeker so I used to make her work to get my attention and then just say “…okay?”. Eventually she just stopped talking to me because I didn’t react how she wanted and I didn’t have to have a big confrontation when I was just starting out. When she was throwing things at me I did tell her to stop that though. Now she just says things while standing behind me and I don’t feel like I can tell her to stop because I’m not actually in the conversation. Everyone else just gives a giggle or startled laugh and moves on.

      1. Web of Pies*

        An old boss used to sneak up behind his male reports and tug on their earlobe (I don’t know!) until one of them startled, yelled and involuntarily threw his elbow back and almost caught the boss in the groin. He stopped touching people after that, just saying.

        You could also turn around like “are you talking to me?” and make her explain herself, then implement your chef’s kiss “…okay?”

          1. Philosophia*

            Yes, it can be involuntary: I was fresh from a semester of an undergraduate PE class in self-defense when my sister came up behind and tickled me (despite knowing all her life that I do not like to be tickled). I rammed my elbow back in reflex and caught her in a female-type tender spot. She never did that again.

      2. Hlao-roo*

        Everyone else just gives a giggle or startled laugh and moves on.

        Other commenters have mentioned this elsewhere, but I think it’s worth repeating here that at least some of your “startled laugh and move on” coworkers might not like Kevina. It’s possible they’re responding that way not because they think “hahaha, Kevina is so funny, I love working with her!” but because they’re thinking “wow! that was a weird comment. I’ll give a fake polite laugh and walk away to go focus on my actual work.”

        Also, good for you for your non-response tactic! That was an excellent strategy for reducing your interactions with Kevina.

        1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          I am sorry to say that I have done the Awkward Laugh of I Have No Idea How To Respond To This Because It’s So Out Of Pocket. Especially if I know they the org is tolerating it for some reason.

      3. GrumpyPenguin*

        She threw things at you?? What the heck? And everybody just laughs it off? What an absolute mess. I’m so glad for you that you’re on your way out.

        1. ursula*

          “Throwing things at you” definitely goes on the reportable-to-HR list! All of this is wild.

          I have to think there’s also something to be said about a general pattern of disruptive behaviour in the workplace. This has got to be causing productivity problems for other people!

          1. JustaTech*

            I’d say that it depends on both the thing being thrown and the way that it is thrown. Stapler? HR immediately.
            Little foam soccer ball that was lobbed at someone else and missed? Eh, maybe not, but you’d be perfectly within reason to ask people to cut it out.
            Little foam soccer ball hurled directly at your face from point-blank range? HR, but maybe only the second time.

            Kevina sounds like that third option, where there would be some plausible deniability as to her intentions to hurt people, but she absolutely means it unkindly.

            1. Freya*

              Little foam soccer ball hitting me in the face can smack my glasses into my face, which can bend the glasses frame and cut my nose where the nose pieces rest. I have scars from people doing that, because it’s not as if I can choose to not wear my glasses to keep the pressure off the healing skin.

      5. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        “When she was throwing things at me I did tell her to stop that though…”
        This didn’t even make the list you sent to Alison.
        I can’t move past this THROWING THINGS was not in the top ten list you curated for your letter.
        The elephant in the room took a giant crap and everyone is stuck in it.

        1. Cacophonix*

          “The elephant in the room took a giant crap and everyone is stuck in it.”

          OMG, my first giant laugh of the day and I’m totally stealing this.

      6. Momma Bear*

        I’d address the group and ask them to take the conversation elsewhere. She’s yakking but they’re standing there listening.

      7. not nice, don't care*

        I wonder what would happen if you asked those coworkers, right there in the moment, if they really thought whatever Kevina just said was funny?

      8. Cece*

        As you’re on your way out, it could be amusing to stand behind her and talk about the process of reporting terrible behavior to HR…

      10. Sarah M*

        Something that occurs to me: Kevina is either not actually autistic (I’m neurodivergent and this sounds … off), but claims to be so she can “get away” with behavior she knows perfectly well is over-the-top/crosses a line. Or, Kevina does have some form of neurodivergence, but is still deliberately engaging in this behavior because Kevina is a jerk/has ulterior motives.
        If/when the company has finally had enough of her behavior, start counting the seconds before she files a discrimination lawsuit. This is just bad behavior, engaged in purposefully for Reasons.
        Either way, document document document. Cite the most egregious/physically dangerous and/or threatening first, and go down the line.

          1. Joana*

            Yeah in my experience if they aren’t a jerk, someone who’s neurodivergent doing stuff to annoy others isn’t usually intentional and they’ll be apologetic when it’s pointed out to them. You can be a jerk and autistic at once, and being autistic shouldn’t be a get-out-of-jail-free card for being a jerk.

        2. Anandatic*

          The same way we shouldn’t diagnose random strangers, I think we also shouldn’t claim strangers’ diagnoses can’t be real. Also, as an autistic person myself, I have met plenty of autistic bullies, as well as bullies who hide behind a diagnosis, or feminist language, or therapy talk, or whatever feels most convenient to them in the moment. unfortunately, people who just want to be abusive will abuse any tools they possibly can.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            Yeah, I believe she’s autistic. I just…don’t believe her autism is why she is doing these things, any more than I would assume a neurotypical person doing such things was doing them because they were neurotypical.

            Yes, autistic people can do things that seem odd to neurotypical people or can breach neurotypical people’s boundaries due to the “double empathy problem,” but…autism does not cause somebody to throw things at their colleagues or to look up their colleagues’ social security numbers and it certainly doesn’t cause homophobia. It COULD POSSIBLY make a homophobic person less well-able to hide their homophobia, but…it isn’t responsible for the homophobia itself.

            So yeah, I believe she’s autistic but…autistic people are still people and can be nice or nasty, good at their jobs or poor at them, etc and I don’t think most of this behaviour I’d particular related to her autism.

        3. Lilac*

          I mean it’s unusual for autistic women but unfortunately I’ve known plenty of autistic men that act like edgelords because they *think* it’s making them friends. Like class clowns that never left that phase because nobody was honest about how harmful their behaviour was, or they refused to change because they were afraid to be alone.
          I’m autistic/ADHD and it took me a while to be okay with the possibility that Elon Musk is actually autistic.

      11. Michelle Smith*

        This sounds like the tactic of gray rocking and it’s absolutely the correct way to deal with someone who is being outrageous for attention.

    4. Adds*

      It’s like she’s taken the role of Internet Troll, brought it into Real Life, and then made it her entire personality. Ick.

      She sounds exhausting. And like she should have been fired last year.

      1. Jill Swinburne*

        Haha, I love this! I was thinking that someone’s 14-year-old edgelord brother was inhabiting her body, but I like yours better.

    5. Andie*

      She’s so obviously doing this to get a reaction that I wonder what would happen if you took the “…okay?” technique a little further to boredly point out how obvious she is – and it can work even better if she’s doing it in your vicinity but not specifically to you. Sound bored and point out how pathetic the attention seeking is – something like “Jane, gasp like you’re scandalized and maybe Kevina will let us get back to work for a while.”

  2. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

    Yet another example of a walking, talking stink bomb being not only employable but unfireable, while millions of competent people are struggling to even get a call back. It’s enough to make you want to give up.

    1. Crencestre*

      Kevina is only “unfireable” because that company’s HR and managerial staff are afraid to take action (both reactive and proactive!) against her for fear of being accused of violating the ADA and causing a financial and PR headache for the company.

      For the record, the ADA does NOT mandate that a company must keep a disabled employee who refuses to follow the same behavioral rules that non-disabled ones are expected to observe, but, as readers of AAM know, many companies seem to think that it does.

      1. Baela Targaryen*

        Not to mention the fact that autism & the content of one’s character are not one in the same. If Kevina hears her autism-influenced behavior is alienating and rude and DOESN’T say “oh wow, I feel awful about that and will work to change,” that has nothing to do with her autism and everything to do with her character, the autism is just an explanation.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Seriously. This laundry list of nonsense is not because she’s autistic, it’s because she is an asshole.

      2. Rex Libris*

        This. Constant disruption to the workplace and harassing other employees are not workplace accommodations.

      3. greg c.*

        When they should realize that should this person have access TO MY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND THEY DO NOTHING ABOUT THAT I WILL SUE THEM FOR EVERY PENNY THEY ARE WORTH (caps lock because seriously wtf)

    2. Overit*

      Exactly. My friend has a disability which requires easy accommodation. She could not find and keep a job for 3 yesrs solely due to this easy accommodation. Companies bluntly told her that and said, “Go ahead. Sue us.” Could not find any lawyer to take ANY of the cases.
      Took her three years to get Disability bec she “should” have been able to get a job. Had her electricity turned off, car repossessed, became homeless for a time.
      But Kevina has a job she cannot lose.

    3. WillowSunstar*

      To think, before my current company, I used to have trouble getting and keeping jobs for the crime of being very introverted and shy. Also I had a college degree then, too.

    4. Nesta*

      I know what you mean. I think of the amount of jobs I’ve applied for that I wasn’t even acknowledged for, or my partner who is nervous that he could be fired for normal things like being out sick for a day, and this woman feels free to be an absolutely disgusting person and no one does anything about it!

    6. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Yes, please explain to me how it violates accommodations of ADA to tell her not to throw things, make jokes about 9/11, Jan 6 specifically and guns and alcohol in general?

    7. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

      Cousin’s co-worker “Axe” used a coffee mug with the C word on it during a meeting. The handle is the C and the other 3 letters are on the mug. Also “unfireable” because this person changed pronouns/gender id during their time at the company, and has worn out the carpet to HR to complain about many people. Cousin’s boss has flat out told her that Axe should be fired (for many reasons) but it’s not worth the risk.

      1. Toots La'Rue*

        I have (and love) that mug, but I have the good sense not to use it at work or during a video call! I think once I realized I had it and carefully kept it turned backwards through the call (at which point it’s just a plain white mug with a black handle) and then switched to something else right when it ended.

        1. TheBunny*

          I have one that shows all the proper uses of f*** I don’t use it on video calls. It’s a pretty simple thing to not do.

    8. NaoNao*

      I too am *baffled* by people like this who get and keep jobs. In addition to this nonsense, there are hundreds if not thousands of stories all over the internet (granted, we’re only hearing one side but still…) of terrible, toxic bosses and coworkers who are mysteriously protected by leadership while loyal, hardworking employees are canned or laid off at the first sign of problems with cash flow or because they brought up very real, serious concerns.

      I myself am ND and I have trouble wrapping my head around what character trait or value people like Kevina (or any of the other toxic types) bring to the table that makes people want to protect them so much?! Entertainment value? Living out their ID vicariously?

      WHAT IS IT?

    1. Strive to Excel*

      If she sent an email “three levels up” asking if she could drink beer and STILL no one has introduced her to Consequences, I doubt reporting would help.

      It should still be done! But I’m dubious if it will help.

      1. Testing*

        Non-alcoholic beer. Still a silly message to send to a grand boss, but not really actionable as such.

        1. metadata minion*

          Yeah, that one on its own is at most cause for a quiet “hey, that isn’t the most professional look” word from her manager.

      2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        I have a thought about that. One time a coworker sent a message to 200 person division about her sandwich* going missing. When the VP’s assistant saw it, she deleted it from her boss’ email and told the woman not to do that.
        So there’s a fair chance exec didn’t see it. Or told Kevina’s manager who “would talk to her about it,” and VP got on with not being a babysitter.
        When the same woman sent ANOTHER message about another thing that would make this wholly identifiable, the mailing lists were locked down. I had to get temporary special access to send a work message.
        *It was in a different refridgerator than she remembered. We have 6. Again, 200 people. Nobody steals food here.

        1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

          Was there a gold nugget in the sandwich? Beluga Caviar? Just trying to think what could push me to email 200 people about my lunch. Subway is $7. Not being known as a nut at work-priceless.

          1. Aphra*

            The Friends episode where someone at work steals Ross’s extra special Thanksgiving leftovers sandwich was just shown again here in the UK and reading this I’m hearing Ross’s furious screams, complete with startled pigeons taking flight…

      3. Oh boy*

        I once had a “Kevina” in my life, though it wasn’t in a work context, it was in a fandom space. She would routinely online-stalk people to the point of them blocking her, make wild, often graphic claims about her sexual behavior, DM people at all hours, brag about the number of times she’d been arrested for outrageous behavior, brag about her inappropriate behavior at work, send inappropriately sexual suggestions about the actors attached to the fandom (I’m no prude, but these were things that would cause even me to blanch), and more.

        The only thing that would make this person back off were consequences, such as someone telling her what she’d said was alarming/upsetting/triggering/etc. Then she’d be contrite as could be, after playing the “I’m autistic, it’s not my fault!” card. However, she’d inevitably start up once more either with another member of our group or after a period of time had elapsed where she felt she’d earned some goodwill points back with the person and start up again. We had other neurodivergent folks in the group who would call her on her behavior, but it did little good and the pattern repeated.

        My point in sharing this is that unless your manager is willing to be extremely vigilant to keep her in check or HR steps in to do the same, this is not likely to ever change. I assigned myself as the person to try to keep this woman in check, being one of the more senior members of the group who she said she respected, and I tell you, it was exhausting. She eventually had been blocked by enough people that she was virtually cut off .

        Your co-workers don’t have that luxury, nor should they have to put up with it. I wonder if they would be willing to go to HR/your manager as a group and ask for more/better intervention? Because I guarantee that management has no idea of the level or degree of disruption Kevina is causing. Perhaps by disrupting the work of HR/manager each time Kevina disrupts theirs, or documenting the time wasted with dealing with the behavior, they might illustrate the point more plainly?

        1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

          Make it hurt HR more than it hurts the work group, absolutely. Amazing how fast problems get solved when that happens.

        2. Worldwalker*

          Addressing the whole “I’m autistic so it’s not my fault” thing:

          Part of working is that you don’t necessarily get (or are entitled to get) a satisfactory explanation of every order issued by your boss. “Change all the red text in this document to lavender” might seem silly to you, but if that’s how they want it, it’s your job to make it so. She doesn’t have to understand why certain behaviors (throwing things!) and topics are off-limits at the office; only that they are.

          1. But what to call me?*

            Besides that, there is very little chance that she doesn’t understand why those behaviors are off-limits. You don’t accidentally stumble into that much inflammatory behavior, autistic or not. She knows exactly what she’s doing and is doing it on purpose. (Though it sure would help take away her plausible deniability defense if those coworkers would stop doing the polite/awkward laugh thing.)

          2. N C Kiddle*

            My problem with instructions like that is not knowing whether the pink or orange text should be changed and sometimes not wanting to look like I’m nitpicking if I ask. But that’s a whole different matter from “Don’t make jokes about insurrections and terrorist attacks” which not only seems unambiguous but also fairly easy to go as broad as possible in following.

  5. Sloanicota*

    This is a tough one because at some point it tips over from a coworker problem into a company problem. The fact that nobody is reacting with sufficient urgency to this situation is concerning. There’s not that much OP can do from her position if the people with the authority to act aren’t going to. Yes, make it clear to your boss by first complaining, then doubling back and confirming that nothing has happened, and pick some of the choicest examples to complain (and then presumably double back) to HR, but I find myself with low expectations. There are plenty of other people involved who could be choosing to do something, so I don’t see this as OP’s circus – I’m glad you’re leaving.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Yeah that’s my thought too. This seems loud, and public. Have customers said anything?

      I’d send a detailed list of your documentation to HR, say she’s creating an environment that ranges from uncomfortable to actively hostile on an ongoing basis (comments based around sexuality or religion raise this to capital H hostile behavior) and that you find the lack of intervention after reporting previous behavior to your manager deeply disturbing. Particularly since you’re on your way out – a strongly worded letter can’t hurt.

      However, whether that will do anything…I’d give it 50/50 depending on how you word it and judging by past actions.

      1. GrumpyPenguin*

        Customers probably just won’t come back because they assume the company is ok with all that.

        1. Falling Diphthong*

          This is so important to underline. Customers don’t engage to explain their rationale for leaving your store. They just go somewhere less stressful.

        2. Potsie*

          For all intents and purposes, the company is ok with all that. Not putting a stop to it eventually amounts to endorsing the behavior.

        3. MigraineMonth*

          They won’t tell you. They will tell friends, though.

          “You need to buy X? Definitely avoid [business]. I went once, and someone was pointedly talking about how she shouldn’t have to sell to gay people. Worse, everyone else just laughed or ignored her.”

          1. Bossy*

            Yup yup – I’ve recently changed up a couple providers of services I used and not even for horrid behavior but because if I can, say, get my nails done by someone who is more agreeable (or let’s say more compatible with me, maybe?) than someone who may do the nails well but we’re not “vibing” or whatever why would I not switch? I did and now getting my nails done is way more fun than sitting with a not very personable person. Of course I’m in NYC so plenty to pick from, so that helps. This probably sounds trite to many people but if I’m paying good money for anything then I expect to get what I want and I don’t want racists, bigots, or people who act they’re doing me some kind of favor by letting me pay them to do a service.

          2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

            Yeah, the more egregious the behavior, the LESS likely I am to write directly to the company. A great company that screwed up once? Sure, I’ll say a “I usually love your business but I had a bad experience and it’s not what I expect so I thought you should know.” But if it’s this blatant, I’m going to assume that you know—because how could you not???—and don’t care, and I don’t have any interest in engaging with that.

          3. Chirpy*

            This. I go out of my way to avoid a store where an employee treated me badly. That store has absolutely no idea why a formerly regular customer hasn’t been there in over a year, because I just walked out and never went back.

          4. Roja*

            Oh yes. I took my daughter in for her first haircut last year and within five minutes the stylist had made a racist and classist comment (about my neighbors, no less, which made me doubly mad!). I pushed back within the moment somewhat, but we’ve never gone back and you’d better be darn sure I’ve told all of my local mom friends about it. That kind of stuff reeeeally travels by word of mouth!

  6. LovelyTresses*

    Oh my! What is everyone else’s reaction when she does these things? And everyone else likes her? This is such deeply troubling behavior (especially the gun and insurrection stuff). I’m actually gobsmacked — thank goodness you’re getting out of there, OP!

    1. Cinnamon Stick*

      I think some people might like her for the same reason a lot of people like the orange presidential candidate. She says the hateful things out loud that they are thinking.

      That’s a guess, of course. I don’t understand why someone would like her.

    2. OP*

      A giggle and a laugh. If she gets a scandalized “oh Kevina” she takes that to mean it was a good joke and goes to tell everyone else in our open office the joke individually in a voice loud enough that we can all hear it every time.

      1. Testing*

        Kevina really does think she’s still at high school, huh…?

        Considering the secret gun and the general unpredictability of this person, I’d leave it alone. It seems anyone who comes into contact with her knows about her behaviour, and if the company chooses not to react, it’s their loss. Leave for your new job and just be happy to leave this mess (both Kevina and the fact that the company doesn’t handle the situation) behind you.

      2. not nice, don't care*

        So you work in an office full of people who either like her style (but perform being scandalized) or are chickenshits in the face of petty evil. Yikes.

        1. misspiggy*

          “Chickenshits in the face of petty evil.” That is memorably put, and surprisingly common, sadly. I wish we could start calling it out more socially.

        2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          I mean, she owns a gun and has made several jokes about significant violence. I’m not even a person who spends much time worrying about mass shooters, and I’d still be “chickenshit” about maybe setting her off.

          1. OP*

            OH we’re also weapon free and she talks about how we should be allowed/required to be armed. Someone got stabbed on the property a few weeks ago and she got real into it

            1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

              Wait, there was an actual stabbing on your property? Is the organization taking that seriously, at least? Because if not, there are bigger problems for this business than this coworker and it sounds like she’s just a symptom.

              1. OP*

                I’m trying not to get too identifying but we are massive and have a lot more “clients” than coworkers and it was client vs client. We have active security but it wasn’t the first time and it won’t be the last. Just the state of things nationally.

                1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

                  It sounds like a lot of advice is going to be irrelevant, actually, as most commenters here won’t have experience with the kind of workplace where physical violence is comparatively normal. Your colleagues and administration may simply be numb to violent speech and inappropriate behavior, and/or super into gallows humor, in a way that the people giving you advice can’t relate to.

                  I do sort of get it; I grew up on army bases, and have family in hospitals, psychiatric care, and public education as well. You might get better advice in forums for your specific vertical.

                2. NaoNao*

                  Is this the type of place that’s really hard to hire for, like…a jail/prison? Or a really under-funded hospital or something? That’s the only type of place I can see leadership overlooking such egregious behavior because they desperately need bodies.

            2. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

              Aah yes, the “required to be armed” crowd is always fun. Statistically wouldn’t go well as not too many people can keep it together when actually in a life threatening or shoot/don’t shoot situation.

        3. iglwif*

          I can’t speak for anyone in OP’s workplace but I feel like if the petty evil person in my office also had access to firearms, I would be concerned about escalation from petty evil to serious evil and would want to avoid setting that escalation off.

          (HOWEVER I would also absolutely 100% document and report all of this stuff, which it seems like OP’s coworkers are not doing.)

          1. N C Kiddle*

            Even without the gun, when someone is that far over the line it can be scary in itself because they already proved they’re not bound by regular norms so there’s no knowing what they might do

        4. Seashell*

          People who need or want to keep their job may feel like it’s easier to ignore and laugh off her crazy behavior, because clearly management is not making her stop or firing her over it.

      3. LovelyTresses*

        Oof! Reading this comment and a few others, your whole office seems to be jointly operating in this weird world where all of this behavior is okay, which is pretty alarming. Since you’re getting out soon, in addition to Alison’s excellent advice, maybe just trying a cheerful “no thank you!” every time she tries to individually tell you a really offensive joke and maybe you can blunt being on the receiving end of these things in your remaining months.

      4. RJ*

        This sounds less to me like she’s well liked and more like she’s making people uncomfortable and they don’t know what to do so awkwardly laugh in the hope ahe moves on & they don’t become a target.

  7. AnonInCanada*

    Wow. Kevina’s surely a piece of work, isn’t she? While I get it the LW doesn’t have much equity in handling her since they’re leaving soon anyway, but for the company’s sake in avoiding having a lawsuit (or twelve) thrown their way due to this egregious behaviour, HR needs to rein her in. What more does she need to do before she ends up getting on the wrong person’s nerves and ends up hurt, or worse? Then, this company will have a real problem on their hands.

    Also: Strength in numbers. I know Alison already hinted at it, but if OP has this laundry list of Kevina’s offenses, I’m going to fathom their coworkers have a few to add to the list as well.

  8. Fluffy Fish*

    OP I can promise you everyone does not in fact like Kevina (key point – no one participated in her 9/11 recreation). It’s likely more along the lines of having to tolerate her because nothing is ever done. And probably combined with a bit of when someone is so super inappropriate at work people don’t really know how to respond.

    Since you’re leaving anyway, I personally would go out making the biggest stinkiest of stinks about Kevina. But you are also fine just moving on – she’s clearly a problem that the company refuses to deal with.

    In fact her current manager may not want to do too much and risk the chance of her moving to be another departments problem. Terrible way to manage problems but it happens a lot and not likely anything you could change (or even care abotu in your remaining time).

    1. RabbitRabbit*

      I strongly suspect the coworkers are trying to keep out of the list of Kevina’s target choices so they are doing their best to play nice.

      2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

        Especially since multiple of her jokes are about armed violence and she apparently has a gun. I’m not confronting her either. I’m getting out of that job ASAP and keeping my head down until I do.

      3. Arts Akimbo*

        “It’s good that you did that, Kevina, it’s real good. And tomorrow… tomorrow’s gonna be a real good day.”

    2. Nonanon*

      She’s also 100% wondering why no one’s playing along and assuming she’s being persecuted for her beliefs.

    3. Momma Bear*

      I agree – if OP is on the way out, then they have a bit of a shield from other backlash. Sometimes what it takes is one person that others can rally behind. A lot of average people are reluctant to rock the boat, but may follow someone willing to start the parade. OP and coworkers might look into if any of her behavior qualifies as an EEO complaint of their own. Per the federal website, the victim doesn’t have to be directly harassed, just affected by the offensive conduct. Someone who says they have a weapon and thinks violence is funny is deeply concerning.

    4. Web of Pies*

      Your coworkers see others being professional and kind to Kevina, so they are being professional and kind, though I bet privately they’re just as wtf as you are.

      It’s also likely there’s major paternalism around letting her get away with things because autistic. Autistic people aren’t incapable of handling feedback or changing inappropriate behavior, if anything, a lot of autistic folks are much more tuned in to observing what’s expected/appropriate, because picking up social norms doesn’t come as naturally for them.

      Kevina just sucks and knows she can get away with it (refer to her past brags about this).

      1. But what to call me?*

        That’s a good point about paternalism; the coworkers might have actually bought into the idea that being autistic means this is just how Kevina is and there’s nothing she or anyone else can do about it. That’s very convenient for Kevina and her desire to get away with being a jerk while reinforcing the idea that every other autistic person they meet will also be a jerk, because how could the poor dears possibly know any better?

  9. Jennifer Strange*

    OOF. I am trying to figure out which of the detailed actions is the worst, and I’m coming up with a nine-way tie. I’m also baffled that she is “well liked by everyone”??? I can appreciate dark humor, but it has to be in the right place and with the right audience (work is not that place and your coworkers are not that audience).

    I remember taking a writing class in college and there was a man in it who absolutely rubbed me the wrong way. To be clear, he didn’t rise to this level of odiousness, but there was a certain smugness about him. I also assumed I must be wrong as everyone else seemed to like him, until one day when I saw another woman in my class give him a LOOK. After class I grabbed her and we bonded over our dislike of him. Just saying, LW, you may be misreading the situation! I hope so, at least.

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      Well liked and considered for a promotion? According to whom? Because it sounds like everyone just … tolerates her while ignoring her demands for participation. I think they have gotten to the Oh that’s just Kevina rather than actually face it all, because its so much.

      Which perfect advice about what to say to HR. To prepare, create a chart – label the columns proselytizing, invasion of privacy, violence and harassment. Then list each incident under one of the columns. If it doesn’t seem to fit, feel free to leave it out. That way you can sort what really is an issue out from what is just personal. Then go to HR with the chart, so you can show, look its not just that she’s loud and obnoxious and saying inappropriate things, here are the things that could expose the company to legal liability. This uses the magic words, legal liability, proselytizing at work, advocating violence, harassment and invasion of privacy.

      1. Testing*

        Yup, also have a category for “making the company look bad in front of clients”. The snorting (anything) and talking about not providing services for gay people go into that one.

        On the other hand, drinking non-alcoholic beer on the clock and asking high-level management about it is really minor and will just make her look silly in their eyes, but is not worth listing.

        1. Freya*

          If you wanted to, and it was done where clients could see, you could put drinking the non-alcoholic beer into the ‘looks bad to clients’ category, because I certainly can’t tell at a quick glance if a beer bottle is alcoholic or non-alcoholic, and I’d definitely assume (as a customer) that something that looks like beer is beer and assume that the person drinking it where I could see it was not sober and therefore could not be trusted to do good work, and since they’re not facing any consequences for it, I’d have to assume that the business was OK with them not doing good work.

          1. Testing*

            Ah, I see I was projecting my own frequent drinking of non-alcoholic beer in all kinds of situations and assuming she’d do it out of a coffee mug or thermos as I do :-D Then no one has to know it’s even beer-like.

            Sure, if she’s planning on swigging from a can, that’s inappropriate.

    2. dulcinea47*

      I just don’t believe she’s well liked by everyone. Just they’re ignoring her crap doesn’t mean they like her.

      1. OP*

        They aren’t ignoring her they all voluntarily spend a lot of time outside of work with her. Concerts, bars, escape rooms, etc..

        1. Paint N Drip*

          Ah. So she’s fun to hang out with outside of work, so they tolerate the clearly f-ed up stuff AT work. Is it safe to assume your coworkers are all pretty young?

        2. Elbe*

          This is probably a part of the issue. Because they’re friends, she’s treating work time like it’s a personal hangout instead of changing her behavior to suit a work environment. This is probably what these people are like outside of work, so it doesn’t strike them as super inappropriate during work.

        3. Audrey Puffins*

          Might be worth reading up on the Geek Social Fallacies. It’s not exactly uncommon for social groups to have a member or two who no one really likes, but for various reasons they continue to tolerate the presence of

        4. Hannah Lee*

          Oof!

          That’s … not good.

          Spending a lot of time outside of work with someone who behaves like this indicates they don’t see a bit issue with how she acts and what she says. Or there is some weird peer-pressure dynamic going on in that town/area and whatever social group she’s plugged into is the dominant one, so people are avoiding being ostracized by not objecting to her behavior.
          (Like an old-school company town where there is a country club or the Masons or some other social club that anyone who is anyone belongs to and they collectively wield a lot of social, civic, financial power over the lives of people who live there … so everyone goes along to get along, and anyone who exhibits different values or norms is isolated, has trouble getting their street plowed, etc)

          1. Hannah Lee*

            hit send too soon

            … I’m glad you will be away from this nest of bees soon.

            Do whatever you can to preserve your safety and sanity in the meantime.

        5. Ellie*

          Oof. I don’t think any help is coming from inside your team then. Since you’re out of there in 2 months, I’d go the formal report to HR route. They should at least know what they’re getting themselves into if they decide to keep her on.

          I’m sorry you’re dealing with this Kevina sounds absolutely awful.

    3. kbeers0su*

      OP didn’t say how other people actually reacted to Kevina, other than declining to build her twin towers to crash. So maybe other people’s reactions to a lot of this is the (not unusual) slight smile and single “ha” because they don’t know how else to respond. Think about any time someone you don’t really know says something awkward- that’s how I respond. OP might see the smile and hear the “ha” and in their mind think “people smile and laugh when Kevina does these things so they must like her.”

    4. Anneke*

      This was me with a coworker who drove me crazy. I thought I was the only one until he was leaving to move to another country, and my manager said, “He’s China’s problem now.”

  10. MistOrMister*

    I have never snorted anything willingly and all I can think is did snorting the smarties not hurt horrifically?? What the heck? WHY??? So much why??

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      People used to do this in my high school a lot. I think it just depends on how finely you grind them, like with most powders.

      1. metadata minion*

        Ok, I’m morbidly curious — does it…do anything? Or is it just for laughs/shock value? I can’t really imagine sugar having any effect other than giving you blue snot.

        1. Nonanon*

          It burns a little but otherwise… nada, just something to be “edgy.”
          …Pls don’t ask me how I know I’m trying to distance myself from my “not like the other girls” days.

        2. Selina Luna*

          You won’t get high off snorting sugar. It is just for laughs. At my high school, it was Pixie Stix, though, not Smarties.

            1. not like a regular teacher*

              A razor blade is also not needed for smarties (aka rockets)! The back of a spoon works just as well. She wanted a razor for the same reason she was doing any of this at all – because she is trying to be a 12-year-old boy’s idea of “cool” and “edgy.”

          2. Lady Lessa*

            I used to enjoy eating Pixie Stix, but never snorted them. It sounds painful because of the citric acid.

            1. Selina Luna*

              Probably. I never did this, and I judged the people who did snort candy hard. I’m kind of judging them right now. It sounded dumb as heck then and it still does.

              1. JustaTech*

                I have (very smart) friend who did this in middle school because, well, middle school?
                He said it hurt like anything and also then you had weird colored snot that would either freak out your parents who thought you had some kind of terrible infection (green), or immediately let your parents know you were doing dumb things at school (blue).

            2. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

              I once got some in my sinuses thanks to a surprise cough/sneeze combo. Can confirm, between the coarse particles and the citric acid, it hurts like hell.

          3. Calamity Janine*

            it could be worse – in high school, a friend of mine decided to pull the same trick of snorting crushed up candy…

            …with cinnamon altoids.

            it had his desired effect of clearing his sinuses, but it’s definitely But At What Cost

            1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

              Was he, by chance, auditioning for Jackass? :-) Sounds painful, lesson learned I’m sure.

            2. N C Kiddle*

              I once snorted powdered ginger – I was trying to smell it and got carried away. My daughter thought it was the funniest thing I did all year

          4. Mrs. Hawiggins*

            In elementary school some kid snorted sugar to pretend to be doing you know what, and he wound up sneezing for an hour. Teacher sent him to the nurse’s office so the rest of us wouldn’t catch the “sudden onset flu John just came down with,” and then asked us why we wouldn’t stop laughing.

        3. Clearance Issues*

          laughs/shock value. they pretend it did something but you get more of a sugar rush from eating the smarties.

    2. Lizcase*

      I finally figured out that these are not the Smarties I know (candy coated chocolate) but the things we call rockets and suddenly it makes more sense.

      well, no it still makes no sense, but snorting these crushed smarties would hurt less.

      1. MsM*

        I think they do have a bit of citric acid in them, though. Can’t imagine that’s good for the nasal passages.

      2. Elmost*

        OH RIGHT yes that does make more sense. But I also remember kids talking about snorting pixie stix as a child and apparently that also hurt quite a lot (I never understood the appeal, myself), so I don’t actually know if it being Rockets/Smarties would make it better.

      3. Phony Genius*

        According to the Daily Meal, “If you want to enjoy American-style Smarties in Canada, look for Rockets. If you get a craving for them in the U.K., confectioner Swizzels Matlow sells a very similar candy product called Fizzers.”

        Maybe that will help picture them.

      4. foofoo*

        My friends crushed and snorted tylenol.

        Why?

        Because teenagers are epically stupid.

        Snorting candy to show off says that Kevina hasn’t moved past the 16 year old boy phase of her life.

      5. Rebekah*

        As a Canadian I was so confused until I saw this comment and remembered about American smarties. For Americans, Canadian/UK Smarties are similar to M&Ms.

        I mean American smarties is still incredibly weird but less….. impossible? than snorting cut up M&Ms

      6. Spider Plant Mom*

        I also had a light-bulb moment after being initially horrified at snorts chunks of candy and chocolate!!

      8. Irish Teacher.*

        Ah, I was totally thinking candy covered chocolate and was wondering how would that even work?

        1. Lexi Vipond*

          That does make more sense. Although I was also thinking of Harry Enfield’s Kevin until I actually followed the link!

      3. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Think fruit-flavored chalk. Or Pez, if you have those. Still painful and confusing, you’re right about that.

    4. Emotional support capybara (he/him)*

      I once snorted a cherry Pixy Stix (basically just a paper straw full of flavored sugar) in high school, on a dare.

      All I’m going to say about that experience is: don’t.

    6. I rolled a 1 on my insight check, so I believe in Santa*

      Yeah, a couple of my classmates snorted smarties… in elementary school. After that it was weird

  11. Myrin*

    I’m wondering where the “she is very well liked by everyone but me” surfaces when in this letter alone, OP says her boss “knows Kevina says inappropriate things”, the coworkers refused to provide Twin Tower water bottles, and Kevina told someone to hit her son with a belt.

    Not that it makes much of a difference, honestly, seeing how this has been unaddressed (at least in an effective manner so far!), but OP, are you really so sure about no one but you disliking this train wreck of a Smarties-snorting person?

    1. Tony Howard*

      Yes I also have trouble with the “well liked by everyone but me” comment. Nevertheless, having already addressed this with your boss seeing no change in Kevina’s behavior AND with only two months to go ….I would leave it where it belongs: in the past or in your memoirs. I would however, mention it to HR during your “exit conference”. Good luck on your next job ! On the bright side, this horrible experience should make all the other annoying coworkers you will have to deal with for the rest of your life , seem like working with Miss Manners!

      1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

        Murphy’s Law of Work: The 1 time you’re actually ready and able to unload in your exit interview is the time they don’t do them. Sigh.

    2. GrumpyPenguin*

      I highly doubt everyone else likes her. People just play nice because they know Kevina is untouchable and she knows it too.

    3. OP*

      They all voluntarily spend a lot of time with her outside the office. The woman who she told to beat her kid invited Kevina to watch the New Years fireworks with her and her kids. She just had her birthday party and everyone came. My boss is her DD after an upcoming procedure.

      1. Myrin*

        That is both fascinating and honestly somewhat disturbing. Are you sure your office isn’t in some sort of twilight zone upside-down world?

        2. Boof*

          People can be hecka fun and have political views that are terrible (I’m not even talking about conventional american red/blue political divide here, talking fringe group). I’m not sure I love the current environment of “well if their politics are terrible how could you possibly want to associate with them?” – well if you share a hobby and it’s a lot of fun to do ___ with them, there’s really no huge gain of cutting people off just because you disagree with them on other stuff. It’s not going to change their mind; actually it probably makes people less likely to change/learn new stuff when they aren’t being exposed to it. So… yeah don’t have to SUPPORT someone who you think has terrible views, exactly, if you think that will end up furthering those views; but I really want to push back this idea that socially isolating people you disagree with is the right move. (I mean, I do it if they won’t stop talking politics / posting smarmy things (if this is social media) and I don’t want to hear it / it makes me too upset, but I absolutely do not stop hanging out with people because of their political views either as long as we can otherwise have a good time and find common ground/respectful discussions).

          1. Silver Robin*

            I mean…if you want to extend this even to “fringe views”, you do realize those views often actively call for the death of certain classes of people? And finding that out about a person, fun as they might otherwise be, actually ruins the experience of hanging out with them?

            I hear you about social isolation and the value of having relationships with diverse types of people. But it is so not my responsibility to teach some fringe jerk that my life is worth living. That is a huge risk that I take. Plenty of those types of people will, at best, call me “one of the good ones” and then just kill me later than they kill the “bad ones” (either directly or via whatever policies they vote into place).

            I would also like to note that putting the responsibility on the (vulnerable!) individual to address a social ill feel analogous, to me, to making it my individual responsibility to stop climate change. There are public policy style efforts that make things safer for everyone, support everyone thriving, and are much more effective at ensuring society is healthy that do not involve me staying in a craft club with a neonazi. Many of whom are perfectly “civil”.

            1. Boof*

              No no, I am talking about when people actually LIKE hanging out with someone, despite some of these views – when the relationship still positive. When the relationship is really about the OTHER STUFF than the political views. I think some groups say “well but their views lead eventually imperil the life of _____” and like, I get that, if that’s too much sure, peace out if the rest of the relationship isn’t good enough. But I actually also do not think one HAS to socially disown everyone everyone with views that are different, even very different, even when that difference can lead some pretty dark places when taken to the extreme*
              I don’t think someone is IMMORAL if they stay friends with someone who has extreme views as long as they don’t ENABLE those views.
              *unfortunately, I think there’s also a real polarization here too where just about everything becomes “if you are not with us you are against us and therefore hate ____” I am very deliberately leaving out any specific view because I have heard this rhetoric applied to all kinds of things, sometimes where I don’t think it really belongs at all.

              1. Silver Robin*

                okay but if someone’s friend has views that would endanger me and mine if they were in power and that does not ruin the fun they have with that person, I get to have opinions about that.

                and the bit about not enabling is very tricky and requires a lot of trust. Do we mean “yeah, friend thinks women should stay at home and have no rights, but I am working on it. we’ve had some good conversations” or do we
                mean “yeah it sucks that friend thinks queer people should be universally institutionalized/imprisoned, but they are just such a great buddy to me so I just avoid talking politics”

                one of those I have some patience for, one of them means I no longer trust that person to keep me safe. And very very often it is the latter.

                1. Boof*

                  Ya’ll can have opinions on whatever you want. Just saying maybe it’s not actually helping anything.
                  The non-political bond for me to tolerate someone saying the kind of examples you site at all would have to be pretty mighty – close family pretty much – and I personally would call it out (and do). And yeah I do have a lot of family in a political camp I very much disagree with and I still love them and treat them with respect and they do the same, or we take a brief break if things get too heated. I know i’ve turned them around on many of what I consider the worst parts of way the politics are going.

            2. Boof*

              This wasn’t really what I was talking about but yes, on the flips side if someone does actually want to befriend other groups as a means of social justice, that can also be extremely effective in some cases. Obviously depends a lot on the people involved, the approach, how much risk one is willing to assume. Famous example being Daryl Davis a black man who spent decades befriending members of the Ku Klux Klan.

              But that is really not what I was referring to in my comment and I absolutely would not advise anyone do this, just note some amazing souls have used this approach effectively.

      2. Liz the Snackbrarian*

        I can kind of see driving a colleague after a procedure if you don’t have other adult family around. I do not at all understand the appeal of inviting someone who suggested beating a misbehave child to watch fireworks with the family.

        1. Boof*

          She kind of sounds like she is trying to be an edgelord, so I’m guessing a lot of people are just dismissing a lot of the terrible stuff as a joke. Not appropriate for work but that’s the only explanation I can come up with as to why the entire office isn’t rebelling by now.

      3. Sparkles McFadden*

        Oh dear God. Yeah…this is unfixable. I’d document it all anyway and give it to HR on the way out.

      4. 1-800-BrownCow*

        Wow, OP. I was questioning the everyone likes her comment as well, but….that’s disturbing. It sounds like you leaving there is probably for the best. I think the best you can do is what Allison suggested with giving the examples and using the phrasing to emphasize to HR that they really do have an issue on their hands. What they do with it though is out of your control.

        And for the record, if I worked with you, I would dislike Kevina as well. I’ll be honest, I was getting angry and upset with the examples you were sharing. I was at the 9/11 Memorial Museum in NYC this past Saturday and even with more than 2 decades having gone by, I still tear up over the events of that day (I was 24 at the time) even though I was not personally affected by it. The jokes/comments about guns and free alcohol is disturbing knowing the gun crisis we have in this country. I want to be as far away from this person as possible because I find them very disturbing.

      5. Elbe*

        I really want to know how old are these people are because I genuinely can’t even guess. Based on behavior, I’d say 13 but all the mentions of having kids makes me wonder.

        1. Six for the truth over solace in liesi*

          Me too! Banning caps on water bottles so they can’t be used as projectiles is something I’ve only heard at school assemblies.

      6. iglwif*

        OP, I think this is less a Kevina problem than a “your workplace is epically full of bees” problem.

        1. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

          From other comments, it sounds like like they work in some kind of large public service job, and I’m going to guess that’s having a big impact on this. For example, client vs client violence (like stabbings) is not the earth shattering thing it would be in most white collar offices. That sort of goes some distance toward possibly explaining why their colleagues seem unbothered.

      7. Bitte Meddler*

        OK, if they’re truly friends outside of work, I can see where the line about beating the kid could be an “inside” joke that they both find funny.

        For instance, if a friend of mine said something like, “Ugh. I went to the art museum today and I guess it was Field Trip Day because there were loud, screaming children everywhere! I love kids but, man, not when they’re pinballing off me,” I might say, “Oh, I quite like unruly children. They’re best when marinated overnight and put in the slow-cooker, though.”

        But the rest of the stuff? 9/11 “jokes”? Jan 6 “jokes”? General violence “jokes”? Holy hell, there’s no way to explain that away.

        1. Joana*

          Yeah, most of the people at my work have a good rapport and some dark/violent jokes end up happening. But despite that I’m pretty sure at least some of them don’t share my political views, they have not gotten political at all. Just a general “This coworker is an idiot, I’m gonna beat him” and someone responding “DO IT.”

  12. ChattyDelle*

    Someone tells me I should be at my son & hang him upside down? We’re having words & not polite ones.
    OP, I’m really glad you’re getting out of there. Given the short time you have left, I’d recommend emailing HR with the most egregious & cc your manager. Two birds. one stone

    2. Wine not Whine*

      This. Also specifically reference the other times you’ve gone to your manager about this person, and CC _their_ manager as well.
      They don’t like it that you went up a level? Too bad for them. After all, you’re already on your way out the door, and it may help keep your manager from doing no more than having another weak-sauce “conversation” with Kevina (or shoving it under the rug altogether).

  13. not nice, don't care*

    Start an all-reply email thread delineating all the shitty behaviors. Preface it with ‘I know Kevina is well-liked, but…’ and let it rip.

    1. Unkempt Flatware*

      Guarantee she’s the opposite of well liked. I’m certain everyone feels the same way about such a clod.

      1. allathian*

        Nope, the OP posted and said the others spend a lot of time together outside of work. The lack of professionalism is incredible.

  14. Username needed*

    The fact that someone who behaves that weirdly says she has a gun would freak me out. I’d wait until your last day/hour at the company to make a complaint. Or see if you have any kind of safeguarding/audit hotline that would let you make an anonymous complaint.

    2. WillowSunstar*

      Yeah, I would be freaking out at that also. Definitely would be super careful walking to my car at night, maybe to the point of asking a security guard or at least trying to park under bright lights where the cameras could see me well.

    3. pally*

      yeah- someone like this with a gun- YIKES!

      I had an employee who wasn’t this zany, but she had frequent moments of wackiness. And a temper too. Very opinionated on any topic imaginable.

      She made it very clear to me that she owned a firearm.

      I let her do whatever she wanted. Didn’t want to trigger her temper.

      Eventually she was fired.

    4. I Have RBF*

      Yeah, most responsible gun owners don’t talk much about their guns at work, and don’t do violent “jokes”. The ones that I know have guns only had it come up in casual conversation about weekend plans, like hunting or going to the range.

      Kevina would have me very glad I work remotely. The thought of being in an office with her would raise alarm bells.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        And I would assume responsible gun owners don’t keep those guns secret from roommates. I think a gun in the house is something everybody living there should be aware of and agree to.

        1. I Have RBF*

          Pretty much. Plus they tend to store them correctly, etc.

          Kevina does not sound like a responsible gun owner.

    5. Six for the truth over solace in lies*

      My thoughts exactly. If I were a colleague, I’d be staying on her good side out of genuine fear.

    6. Vipsania Agrippina*

      It’s also possible that she just told she has a gun just to provoke a reaction, but if I was in OP’s shoes I would assume that it’s true to keep myself safer.

  15. Caramel & Cheddar*

    She sounds like a walking, breathing 4Chan meme lord. Even if none of this was actionable from a HR point of view (which it is!), this person sounds exhausting and incredibly annoying to work with.

    “she is very well liked by everyone but me” is something I wouldn’t necessarily assume is true. You mention others not wanting to participate in her weird water bottle 9/11 joke, so there are at least a few other people out there who are probably also questioning her judgement and wondering if it’s something to escalate to HR. Maybe some people do like her, but you’re definitely not alone in your feelings.

    I’m so glad you’re getting out of there, LW!

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Right? Probably moot for LW to worry about at this point, but there’s definitely an important distinction between the two here.

      2. WillowSunstar*

        Good point, it’s very possible they’re just pretending to like her so she doesn’t target them.

        1. GrumpyPenguin*

          Literally – she has a gun and jokes about violence. I’d be very careful to not fall from grace with her.

    2. oof*

      Yes, she sounds worse than my most annoying, wannabe edge lord high schools students. Who at least have the excuse of being 15

      1. Wilbur*

        I feel like we’ve discovered a lot of Americans have never grown out of their edge lord phase. I’d like to cite both “Truck Nuts” and “Calvin peeing on _____” bumper stickers as evidence. It is exhausting.

        1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

          Well said. I have to sit on my hands so I don’t leave Truck Nuts a note saying You Wish!

  16. Mark This Confidential And Leave It Laying Around*

    I think Kevina used to work at my company. Here, too, she was some how unfireable but eventually flamed out on her own, got a pity job somewhere else, WON a harassment suit against someone else, and quit when the check cleared.

  17. Friday Hopeful*

    I’m glad you are leaving soon. Personally I would wait until I was walking out the door, or close to it to report all this to HR because honestly who knows what this person is capable of if she gets a talking to or is fired. I would be scared.

  18. Stuart Foote*

    I am curious what industry this job is in. It seems odd that Kevina is well-liked because this behavior seems like it is annoying. Is it possible she is very attractive and getting away with this stuff because of that? I will say that in certain industries (such as the food industry), you can get away with stuff you couldn’t in other jobs. (I remember a food service co-worker telling everyone, including the manager (who was her mom) about the stripping work she used to do in order to feed her drug addiction, and that wasn’t even the weirdest thing that happened in food jobs). I wonder if this is one of those types of jobs?

    1. Paint N Drip*

      Based on OP’s answers, I’m assuming this is retail or food service and everyone involved is teens and early 20s. The culture in those jobs is SO far from normal!
      (I worked at a KMart in college and a coworker decided he was done for the day, walked off the job without clocking out, telling anyone, or moving the cash from the register to the safe. A few weeks later I got fired for trading shifts, as in organizing another part-time worker could cover my shift without bumping them over 40 hours. I asked the manager if they preferred that I just call out day-of and leave them down a worker when I knew in advance when my exams would be, and YES. Glad y’all went out of business, idiots)

      1. Martin Blackwood*

        I know my cousin had a call center job for the federal tax agency in her early 20s (where she did not scam people! it was following up on audits and stuff!) And while this seems maybe a little relaxed for a call center environment, i could see it being like, insurance data entry or something

      2. N C Kiddle*

        The part where client on client stabbings are apparently normalised made me think they’re providing some sort of services to vulnerable groups

  19. A Book about Metals*

    She sounds problematic to say the least, but until I know if they’re American or Canadian Smarties, I’m reserving full judgement

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think American. I can’t imagine trying to grind up the Canadian kind, but I can imagine the Canadian version of her doing this with Rockets.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yes, also her references to “American tradition” and US politics makes me think this is happening in the US.

    3. learnedthehardway*

      LOL – Canadian here and I was having trouble figuring out HOW one would snort hard shelled chocolate candies.

      I think the OP is doing a public service by documenting and presenting HR with a nicely packaged list of issues. Something should be done about this person.

      1. Audrey Puffins*

        I once watched a close-up magician push a Tic Tac up his nose and pull it out of his eye. I regret that there is no language difference when it comes to Tic Tacs, that guy could ABSOLUTELY snort a Canadian Smartie if he wanted to

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        From Ireland and yup, also wondering how she managed to snort smarties until I read the comments.

    4. Fíriel*

      She must be American! I think if she was Canadian the advice would probably be to call the police about the secret firearm she has hidden from her roommate.

    5. Thomas*

      I completely forgot “Smarties” in the USA are like Love Hearts. I was thinking of the British ones (that are like M&M’s).

      But it says a lot about how bonkers Kevina is that snorting British Smarties wouldn’t even be out of place in the letter.

  20. Nightengale*

    OK so just in case it needs to be said directly, autism doesn’t excuse completely inappropriate at work behavior and especially potentially legally discriminatory behavior.

    Source – autistic person who works with autistic people and is well connected in the autistic community. Many of whom in said community are LGBTQIA+.

    2. GrumpyPenguin*

      Came her to say exactly this. No autistic person I’ve ever met would even think of saying things like that. Autistic people may have trouble with social rules and be bad at taking subtile hints, but a clear message like “Please don’t say/ do that at work” will usually solve the problem.

      This behaviour is simply unhinged and frightening. The manager either didn’t talk to her at all, didn’t give her a clear message or Kevina simply doesn’t care and I’m worried it’s the third option.

      1. Coffee Protein Drink*

        I think it might be the third option. Getting into the 9/11 and the Jan 6…I can only describe that as deliberately provocative. I wouldn’t want to be around her.

    3. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

      I hope the LW is not assuming the behavior is due to the alleged autism. It’s much more common for autistic people to have a strong sense of justice,

      1. Coffee Protein Drink*

        I don’t think the LW is doing so. I think it’s management and HR who are afraid to take any action because it could look like they’re violating ADA.

      2. Silver Robin*

        I do not get the sense that LW is making that conflation; HR is being staggeringly incompetent and making that conflation in effect if not in intent though, and LW wants to be able to get past that nonsense. “I want such a solid case that HR would be unable to reach for any excuse, however misguided, not to deal with it” kind of thing.

    4. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

      We had, many years ago, a person at work who was shockingly lazy and inept at his job and liked to come out with fairly hair raising comments on the (rare) occassions he actually showed up. It took over a year for our HR to fire him because he’d always claim that it was because he had multiple health issues and was black and was gay he’d sue them for discrimination.

      I had to fire someone a decade ago for showing up to work drunk and spewing homophobic garbage at another member of staff before punching them. After being fired he claimed that he was an alcoholic and couldn’t be held accountable. And the company actually PAID him to shut up and go away.

      There’s a reason I have zero patience for anyone trying to use their status as an excuse.

        1. Hannah Lee*

          Sometimes unfortunately it is “cheaper” to just pay someone to go away quietly.

          Particularly with someone who displays threatening or violent behavior … I’ve had managers who have gone with the “just make them go away” approach because the potential financial cost of litigation or the stress/workplace disruption/threat to others risk outweighs the “we are on the right side of the law and this person needs to be held accountable; we’re not paying him a dime” reward. It was “I’d rather cut this guy a check than have to call the police, a lawyer, an ambulance or deal with good people leaving because he’s a lurking, threatening presence around the parking lot”

    5. Willow*

      Yes. I am much more likely to get into trouble for objecting to prejudiced comments that others consider innocuous.

    6. Amesip*

      Exactly! As an autistic person myself, I am appalled that HR is allowing the diagnosis(?) to serve as an excuse for wildly out of line behavior. Good lord!

    7. iglwif*

      This times a million.

      Captain Awkward often notes that a person can be both mentally ill and an a$$hole — the mental illness isn’t the reason they’re an a$$hole, they are separate phenomena.

      Same thing with disabilities and neurodivergences.

    8. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Same. I’m neurodivergent and fuming at HR here for apparently thinking ND stands for “no decency.”

    9. OhGee*

      Louder for the people in the back, especially HR! This assumption does a disservice to the many autistic people who are not weird creeps at work, and to the co-workers of creeps like Kevina!!

    10. Nice cup of tea*

      Totally agree.

      I do not see anything in her behaviour that is attributed to autism.

      No excuse.

    11. autistic-employee*

      Literally came here to say this (as an autistic person)! Having autism doesn’t excuse you from considering your impact on others. Clear, direct communication about cause and effect is super helpful and sometimes it’s so helpful to have someone break down the steps in why something I said or did caused a certain reaction, but having autism doesn’t mean just get a free pass to create whatever impact you want without considering the consequences for others.

  21. Czhorat*

    remember the class clown who would say outrageous things so the teacher would pay attention to them? It’s not particularly cute then, and it’s worse when they’re ostensibly adults.

    I feel for OP having to deal with this overgrown child; in a sane world they’d have been fired some time ago if they couldn’t start acting in a reasonably mature way.

    All I can say is that OP’s issues about this one are not at all wrong.

  22. Phony Genius*

    As I was reading this, I was mentally ranking the seriousness of these actions. The Diddy walk-out was pretty low on the list, with the Smarties pretty high.

    Honestly, most of these warrant HR acting on, if framed correctly, especially the social security numbers and the comments in front of customers. And, yes, the couriers have a right to file sexual harassment complaints if they so choose.

  23. Salty Caramel*

    I’m utterly stunned that Kevina has gotten away with so much. She’s pulling this crap in front of customers and nobody is addressing it? That’s actionable from where I sit.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      She is getting away with insanely offensive and inappropriate things!! OP mentioned that their boss is friendly with Kevina, even bringing her home after upcoming surgery. The boss is absolutely NOT bringing it up the chain, probably not even talking to Kevina (or “talking to her” like ‘OP doesn’t like your jokes’ or other drivel)
      Glad OP is getting out of there, this whole workplace is the freaking wild west

  24. Crystal Claire*

    PLEASE REPORT HER AGAIN! Go to someone higher up, explain everything! and tell them it is becoming unbearable! Kevina needs to be fired TODAY!

    1. Successful Birthday Rememberer*

      Totally merits an escalation if the person you are talking to does not comprehend why this is a significant problem.

  25. Falling Diphthong*

    I am now fascinated by the idea that caps are the relevant factor in using a bottle as a projectile.

    Also I would guess that OP does not work in the prosecutor’s office of the district that arrested this person, and so a walk-out would be particularly mystifying. Like if the staff of an Arby’s, or a manufacturer of light switches, staged a walkout.

    OP, the constant stream of chaos is designed to wear the people around her down. And it has worked. You are already taking the correct step of removing yourself while management wrings its hands and theorizes that she will change if they just give her more slack. Save yourself.

    1. Strive to Excel*

      Cap on bottle = full heavy bottle, cap off bottle means water/liquid is more likely to slosh out.

      It’s not foolproof but it makes it harder for someone to get hurt.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        To echo Saoirse Ronan’s point about phones as weapons,

        I as a woman have more than once, while out walking or on my way somewhere on foot, contemplated how I could use the water bottle or Yeti I was carrying if the guy who seemed a bit sketchy turned into an personal threat. To be fair, I’ve also run scenarios on fruit and dishware and keys I had at hand. Though I’ve never mused about it out loud to co-workers/customers, though. And also, I have nearly zero upper body strength and uncertain aim, so I’ll probably be SOL in any real-life hand to hand self-defense scenarios.
        (to date, any actual escapes I’ve needed in my lifetime have been pulled off through screaming (making a scene) and/or running away and hiding.)

    2. Salsa Verde*

      I am fascinated by the idea that an employer who is planning an event has to even think about preventing dangerous projectiles at said event – what kind of event is this? Is it for employees only, and if so, wouldn’t it just be safer to not employ people who might use bottles as a projectile? Is this rule just for Kevina? Is this event for teens? That’s the only way I could see this being a consideration.

      1. Strive to Excel*

        I’ve seen this at big sporting fields and major music events in our area. All the ones in my area serve drinks in open topped cups, no bottles or cans allowed, because if someone decides to throw something at the field the cups don’t make for a good projectile. Anyone hosting an event at one of these venues has to follow the venue safety rules.

        These are the sorts of places where they make you walk through a medical detector and require a bag search too, so it’s not an isolated security measure, but the caps one is something a planner would have to think ahead for.

        1. President Porpoise*

          My grandfather is to blame for this rule for baseball games. He once was an Eagle scout, in uniform, escorting a bunch of younger scouts to a Washington Nationals game. In protest of a call the ump made, he threw his pop bottle onto the field (very common in those days). Unbeknownst to him, he threw it right over the occupied president’s box. The Secret Service came and nabbed him and interrogated him a bit, determined no harm was intended and let him go. He got a write up and picture in the paper – uniform and all. I’ve got the article somewhere…

          Anyway, they immediately switched from bottles to cups after that.

        2. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

          I thought this too, at first, but it doesn’t jive with them having a big database of social security numbers. Unless Ticketmaster is even worse that I thought.

      2. Anonychick*

        My assumption upon reading that was that the employer was the owner/operator of either a facility or a group responsible for a large, possibly emotional event (such as a pro sports competition, a major concert, a political rally, etc) where attendees might use bottles as projectiles, not that the employer was going to be directly responsible for the actions of the people who might do so.

        (Source: I remember as a kid the concession workers taking the caps off the water bottles they sold you at baseball games, with this being the reason given. Very annoying, especially when you have disabilities that make it more likely you’ll knock things over by accident.)

        1. N C Kiddle*

          I got the lid confiscated off a water bottle I brought to a soccer game once, and what made me livid was that once the steward finished searching my bag, she managed to knock the bottle over. Luckily it was a 2 litre bottle, so there was still a fair amount left when I rescued it

      3. sbc*

        concerts and sporting events, political rallies, and lots of other situations where a large event could become unruly.

  26. AnonymouslyActuallyAutistically*

    Speaking as an autistic, I am here to say that Kevina’s neurotype has nothing to do with her being an absolute flaming jackass. She’s using it as an excuse to get away with behavior she knows darn well is inappropriate.

    Do autistic folks have trouble reading the room? Sure. Do we have trouble with the unwritten rules of social conventions? Absolutely. But when people make actual sexual harassment complaints against you? When people say that your behavior makes them uncomfortable? One of the things we’re also known for is excellent pattern recognition, and there is an established pattern.

    From what you’re describing, Kevina knows exactly how, and how far, to take her shenanigans without incurring serious consequences (again, excellent pattern recognition). You definitely have a Kevina problem, but you’re also right that you have a total failure of leadership. So glad you’re getting out!

    1. Willow*

      Yes! We can learn this stuff. I think I benefited from going to a very progressive elementary school that focused a lot on social justice and interpersonal interaction. Even though at the time, I was so frustrated by the lack of more advanced math classes. We didn’t just learn that bigotry was wrong, we learned why. I did wind up with a somewhat skewed view of the world, in that I thought everyone knew that stuff was bad. My family was on a vacation once and we were at a Native American reservation. My parents were talking to one of the women, and she told them how at school the white kids would say racist things to the Native American kids. I was completely shocked that they were breaking what I thought was an ironclad rule and not getting into unimaginably huge trouble. I also was very proactive about correcting people when they said something “bad” which tended to be alienating. Recently read through all my teachers’ notes in preparation for my evaluation, and they worked with me so much on my tendency to lecture and correct people. That is still something I am very conscious and careful about.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      I have to agree that Kevina is pushing right to the limit, because she knows where it is. If she is bragging about getting out of harassment issues… she’s playing her cards.
      The thing about autistic people, queer people, people of color, people of X religion… is they’re people. And people can suck!

    3. Crystal Claire*

      It still does not excuse their behavior though. If Kevina says anything that discriminates or harasses an individual based on race, religion, etc., she and the company are looking at a major lawsuit. If OP hasn’t consulted with a lawyer yet, that might be the next step if their complaints are not taken seriously.

      1. Bird names*

        I’m slightly confused – the above commenter did not in any way excuse Kevina’s behavior. To the contrary they explicitly called it out as inappropriate to the extreme?

    4. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

      Yeah for sure, she’s using her autism (if that’s even true) to get away with being a creep. I recently learned that people with autism get more stalking or harassment type charges than the general population because of many factors inc difficulty reading social cues and having a single minded interest in something, but they also will desist once being told “Suzie doesn’t want you to talk to her” and rarely re-offend compared to the general population.
      Which goes exactly with the pattern recognition that you’re talking about.

  27. Insert Pun Here*

    You know, I have worked with a fair number of people who take pride in being provocative or transgressive — traits that are often welcomed in some aspects of the creative work that we do — and not a single one of them has ever snorted anything publicly in the workplace.

  28. Jonathan MacKay*

    Some years prior to his autism diagnosis, my brother was fired from the kitchen of a local yacht club after a coworker’s complaint about him. The complaint was severe enough that the police were involved to escort him out. Where the complaint came from is that during the course of a conversation, he was asked what he was reading most recently. Unfortunately, the book he was working through was ‘A Writer’s Guide to Poisons’ (Not sure if I’m recalling the actual title, but that was the content of the book). So he answered the question in detail, with some of the interesting facts he had learned. He sadly did not recognize the social cue when the coworker walked away with him, so he followed and continued speaking. This led the coworker to consider him a potential threat and reported him to the manager.

    During the meeting where he was dismissed, my brother had only one question – “Was there an issue with my work?” No, there wasn’t – but his asking the question like that convinced the officer who escorted him out to go back in and give the bosses an earful, as it was quite clear he had little to no idea what was going on to cause his dismissal. ((If my brother had known he was autistic at the time, there would’ve been a clear violation of employment law here in Ontario)) How my brother found about that part is through another officer who attended our church at the time who put the pieces together.

    The difference between my brother and Kevina though, is that my brother has come to the conclusion that they were well within their rights to fire him for the perceived threat, but that they went about it the wrong way.

    ((Granted, I suspect he was inclined to leave upon finding other employment anyway, on the basis of them having him clean out a kitchen after a fire WITHOUT proper PPE))

    1. Bossy*

      Wow! I feel for your brother and hope he’s ok. The innocence in asking “Was there a problem with my work” is literally making me tear up.

    2. Jo-Maroon*

      TBH, I’m on the spectrum, and the boss’s actions come across as super out of line. I can’t imagine any world where an academic or intellectual interest in poison requires POLICE INTERVENTION, and this seems just as harmless as the thousands of neurotypical true crime fans who may discuss these shows with their coworkers.

      1. linger*

        I can see how the boss got there. Expressing an “academic interest in poisons” should not normally be a fireable offense, but there are three aggravating factors to consider:
        at length and in detail,
        to an unwilling listener,
        when working in a kitchen.

        1. Jonathan MacKay*

          Except for the fact that the listener *asked* initially. Upon missing the social cue, yeah, they’d be considered unwilling.

          I believe the exact words told to the manager were about feeling ‘creeped out’.

          Management did not follow up or investigate, they just proceeded to dismissal, by my understanding.

            1. Jonathan MacKay*

              Yes, which is why my brother’s initial failure was not in oversharing, but in not understanding that discussing poison in a kitchen environment is not an appropriate topic.

  29. hello*

    It shouldn’t matter if Kevina is autistic – if she’s being openly bigoted to groups of people in front of me, I would have reported her to HR immediately. I’d also be looking for another job since clearly HR doesn’t care.

  30. RVA Cat*

    The fact she is joking about child abuse and apparently has sole custody of her kids makes me wonder how much worse she is at home. At what point does this go from an HR report to CPS?

    1. HonorBox*

      As I read that particular comment, I started thinking about the performer whose “jokes” went viral after an event at Madison Square Garden over the weekend. There are jokes and then there are terrible and concerning things positioned as “jokes.” And something that you might joke about with a close friend isn’t necessarily something you should “joke” about at work.

      I’d also say that there are never things that should be joked about, no matter the company you’re with. Child abuse is pretty high on that list.

  31. Justin*

    There’s so much just straight bizarre stuff in here (“talked about her gambling addiction and losses” – okay, thanks? weird!) amid the gross stuff that I wonder if she is Trying Really Hard to Get A Rise. Like, I doubt OP has been to her home so I wonder if she’s telling WILD STORIES ABOUT THE GUN SHE BOUGHT and then goes home and just sits in a corner.

    Report, obviously, though.

  32. HonorBox*

    Go to HR. Go to the highest level executive you can. Whether you’re leaving or not doesn’t matter in this case, but it sure helps because you’re out of the fray soon. I think I’d specifically highlight a couple of items because certain behavior can just be crappy, while others are more concerning to a workplace.

    *The comments to the couriers. Just because they (or others) haven’t reported it doesn’t make it right for her to harass them. If you’ve heard her make the comments, you could report sexual harassment because it makes YOU uncomfortable.
    *The Smarties. Not because there’s anything illegal, but she used a razor blade to cut them up and snort them while in a customer-facing spot. Simulating drug use is generally not something workplaces would want customers to see.
    *The 9/11 simulation. Because c’mon. In essence celebrating a tragic day? What if someone in the workplace knew someone who was killed that day?
    *Asking if specific guns can kill people. She owns a gun. That seems at least concerning, if not threatening. Especially with the context of all the other terrible things she’s said, it is hard to see this as some sort of joke.
    *And the SSN issue. If you have access to sensitive and/or confidential information, I think the company would probably want to ensure that the information isn’t being joked about, if not used inappropriately.

    While you say that your complaints would need to be waterproof, I think I’d point out that threats of violence (perceived or real), inappropriate use of confidential data, and sexual harassment are not protected by the ADA.

  33. Elizabeth*

    I’m trying to figure out what states allow 13 year olds to work full time jobs, because that’s the only acceptable explanation here.

    1. A Book about Metals*

      I was going to say the same – this is like middle school humor. But according to LW Kevina is well liked and on track for a promotion?

    2. Emotional support capybara (he/him)*

      I would rather work with actual 13-year-olds for all eternity than this specimen for one day.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        I teach 13 year olds and honestly, I think most of mine would find SOME of that stuff funny as a one-off, but some of it would have even them saying “dude, that’s over the line”.

  34. Koekje*

    Using Lexis Nexis to search a coworker’s info would have been immediate dismissal at my last job. Also when is Kevina getting any work done? This workplace has messed up priorities.

  35. Plus +*

    I’m sorry but the Diddy walkout is not remotely funny. He’s being charged with sex trafficking, not tax evasion.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Even if he was charged with tax evasion, organizing a workplace walkout about it would still be incredibly weird.

    2. sarah*

      I had the same reaction Alison did, I laughed because it’s so outrageously dumb. (She does say there’s nothing funny about him.)

      1. Saturday*

        Right, it’s that it’s just so outrageous – it doesn’t have anything to do with making light of his charges. This coworker is trying to find the most offensive and messed up things to say and do, and she’s succeeding.

      2. Strive to Excel*

        Yup. It’s not a “oh haha” moment, more like a “haha wtf did I just hear” moment. The idea is totally ludicrous.

  36. Observer*

    Yeesh! Some of this would be kind of funny in some sort of fantasy type piece of fiction. But in the real world, in the workplace? Absolute insanity.

    Your manager is an idiot. I’m glad you are getting out of there.

  38. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    In situations where it’s just beyond bizarre to describe someone’s behaviour it can help to get it down in writing to the higher ups along with the consequences and risks of allowing this to continue.

    That way it becomes more of an actionable thing. So you’d have ‘bigotry against a protected class in front of customers will likely lead to extremely bad reputation for the firm and loss of profit’ or ‘creating a hostile working environment will lead to people suing the firm’.

    And the whole ‘we have to let her do this because autism’ stuff isn’t just outright BS it’s actually highly offensive to every other single one of us who do have autism or other neuro issues. Because the longer they let her get away with this the more people will associate austism with ‘outright dickhead behaviour’ and thus treat us badly.

    The sexual harrassment thing? It IS still harrassment if nobody complains. For that alone she should be fired.

  40. Maple Moose*

    What did I just read! This is wild.

    This is my suggestion, however as a non-American it may not be the right choice:
    Every time Kevina makes an inappropriate joke, I would reply with “I don’t think jokes about are funny.” Say it with a complete deadpan expression and tone, then turn your back on her to go back to work or put your headphones on while getting back to work.

    I would hope that taking the above actions would empower any coworkers who are not comfortable with Kevina to do the same. However, I worry that Kevina may escalate (especially with her guns, insurrection, etc.) comments. Again, this is what I would be comfortable doing but OP needs to weigh any risks for themselves for their last 2 months of employment.

    1. Maple Moose*

      I think moderation got me on this one.

      Here is what it should have read as:
      Every time Kevina makes an inappropriate joke, I would reply with “I don’t think jokes about XYZ topic are funny.” Say it with a complete deadpan expression and tone, then turn your back on her to go back to work or put your headphones on while getting back to work.

      For XYZ topics I had pulled examples from the letter that were removed.

  41. Willow*

    As an autistic woman myself this makes me so angry. We are absolutely able to understand how harmful and wrong this behavior is. These aren’t awkward comments or not reading the room. These are deliberately cruel and harmful actions. I constantly faced bullying as a child because I would object whenever anyone said something bigoted, sexist, homophobic, etc. I knew those comments were wrong and didn’t understand how to pick my battles. I definitely offended people by “always having to put my two cents in” as one peer said. But after a teacher talked to me about it, I made an effort to moderate my behavior and approach such situations with more compassion and nuance.

  42. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    LW , are you sure she is well liked by everyone and they are not just acting? With the amount of things that she has done I highly doubt it. I would do everything that Alison suggested. Also, what happens if you tell her to stop or that it is inappropriate? Has anyone done this?

    As a precaution I would also freeze your credit. Who knows what she might do if she gets told off and figures out it was you.

    1. Expelliarmus*

      LW mentioned in other comments that other coworkers willingly hang out with her outside of work, including the parent who was told to spank their kid.

      1. Future*

        I really wonder how the coworkers behave! Are they similarly unpleasant, just not as bad as Kevina?

  44. Not A Manager*

    Yipes. My instinct is the complete opposite of all of the advice here. If you’re leaving in two months, I’d keep my head down and my mouth shut. Either other people are aware of this and they can address it, or they are aware of it and have chosen not to address it. I don’t see that you have any special information that other people don’t already have. This sounds like a massive amount of labor on your part, and it could open you up to retaliation.

    I’d feel differently if you had special access either to information about her behavior or to someone who could act on the information, but you don’t. You’re in the same position as everyone else, except (a) you’ve already taken reasonable action and (b) you’re on your way out the door.

    1. HonorBox*

      The only thing I’d disagree about is the SSN information. Clearly Kevina has no boundaries about that kind of thing and I’d at least highlight beyond where it already has been highlighted that OP is concerned about that. It happened to them personally and because the company deals with that kind of private information, I’d want to make doubly sure that both MY information was protected and the company was paying attention to that behavior because it could have lasting impacts on the business too.

  45. I Work in Disability Accommodations*

    Holy buckets… Kevina is something else. I hope OP is able to make an effective complaint against her.

  46. No name*

    I don’t know if this has been mentioned, OP, but can you start asking her and your coworkers to explain the “joke” each and every time she does it? Make it uncomfortable for them.

  47. Dog momma*

    If someone looked up and talked to others about my SSN at work, I’d be in HR so fast their head would be spinning… and calling my lawyer.

    1. WellRed*

      I don’t understand why this wasn’t a more egregious offense. One would assume strict policy around accessing this type of information.

  48. AnonAnon*

    If you or your coworkers feel unsafe, especially knowing she has a gun, a police report would certainly be within your right.

  49. thewurst*

    Yeesh. Sounds like someone I worked with at (very large coffee chain) 20 years ago. Would say extremely inappropriate things to, or in front of, customers, talked about her gross dating life at audible volume, made offensive non-jokes, talked about her past and sometimes current substance abuse problems, constantly scratched at wounds on her arms (in food service!), and was just a thoroughly unpleasant person altogether. At some point she must have done something egregious enough for the manager to fire her. She sued the company and won, and I think got her job back (I was no longer there), and the manager got demoted to shift supervisor. You see, this person was disabled in a car accident years previous and suffered brain damage as a result, and thus qualified under ADA. However, the reason she was in that car wreck in the first place was that she was driving drunk, something which by her own admission, she “did all the time.” I’m guessing she had always been “the worst” and her brain damage had only made her worse than “worst.” Of course, I wouldn’t know most of this if she didn’t constantly talk about extremely inappropriate things in great detail! Anyway, there may be a reason companies are chickenshorts about this sort of thing.

    1. RVA Cat*

      Sounds like the system failed everyone here. Her disability is not an excuse to be a jerk – *but* if she’s truly unable to control her behavior enough to be in the workforce, she should be eligible for SSI disability (but was likely denied).

    2. Insufficient Sausage Explainer*

      Just adding “chickenshorts” to my vocabulary (directly underneath “bananapants”!

  51. I'm so confused*

    > an event hosted by our employer is going to be capless to prevent bottles being used as dangerous projectiles

    I feel like I’m missing something. Where does this person work, what kind of event is this, how does removing the caps prevent bottles from being used as projectiles, does nobody care about the risk of spillage or things getting inside the bottles, and most importantly why are adults just not trusted to not use bottles as dangerous projectiles even with the caps on?

    1. Elbe*

      It sounds like it might be concert or public speaking venue. Unfortunately, people do throw things on stage and being hit with an empty water bottle would be a lot less painful than a full one.

    3. Festively Dressed Earl*

      A full, capped bottle thrown by a fan has hurt NBA players and concert performers in the past. If you throw an uncapped bottle, most of the liquid will spill out in the process and it’s less likely to cause injury. Plus, it’s harder to aim a bottle if the center of gravity is changing because it’s losing mass unpredictably mid throw.

  52. Generic Name*

    Kevina reminds me of an old coworker. I think he also liked to say outrageous things to get attention. He was apparently untouchable, as he is a principal and part owner of the company. After a while, I started reacting normally to the gross stuff he said. I’d say, “wow” or “gross!” or “why are you telling me this?”. Unfortunately he started icing me out and I wouldn’t get invited to client meetings, even though it was part of my job. Although I hear now that the company is slow on business, has done layoffs, and will be asking people to voluntarily cut their hours/pay, so I guess the joke is on them. You are doing the right thing by moving on, and I don’t think you can do anything more about Kevina. The company is clearly okay with her behavior, and it’s not your job to save them from themselves.

  53. Sparkles McFadden*

    I have a theory about the work world that, in any given workplace, there are people who are deemed as “valuable” for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with work, and they are never held to the same standards as anyone else. The valued people can do anything they want, including blowing deadlines and making their coworkers wildly uncomfortable, and the boss will say “OK, I’ll talk to her” but nothing ever changes because the boss likes having the person around. Why? Who knows? The person boosts the boss’ ego, or reminds the boss of a family member, or the person makes an insecure boss feel better about being a crappy boss, or the boss feels like a good person who will give a total lunatic a job, or the person is the boss’ drug connection, or a childhood friend, or million other reasons that make no sense to anyone else. The boss wants the person there and nothing else matters.

    Valued people have job security up until there’s a regime change. Once the protector is gone, the valued person is gone too – and you’ll later hear that the valued person is working for the protector at a new company. I would bet that very few people like having Kevina around, but they are afraid of upsetting Kevina as there might be repercussions for them. The protector might even be someone higher up at the company, hence someone else trying to get Kevina on staff. Or maybe everyone in that company is just batcrap crazy, and they don’t want to do the actual work of firing someone, which is also a distinct possibility.

    In either case, the advice would be the same: Document as much as you can and give it to HR on the way out. On behalf of everyone who has had to leave a job to escape their Kevina, thank you for trying.

    1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

      I never saw the pattern before but you are spot on. Wingnut goes with Protector to the new company, havoc ensues.

  54. Future*

    As a neurodivergent person myself, I’m really tired of people with shitbird behaviour being let get away with it because they’re on the spectrum. Most of us are able to be decent human beings with maybe just a little correction.

    2. Elbe*

      100% I know plenty of people on the spectrum and have yet to hear of them snorting Smarties at work.

      I know that the people who shout “but they are (or could be) on the spectrum!!!” when someone is behaving poorly mean well, but the reality is that they are actually stigmatizing the condition by suggesting that it excuses extremely poor behavior and/or harassment.

  55. HigherEdEscapee*

    I work with someone very much like this. The specifics are different, but the outcome is the same – outrageous behavior in front of our clients and in the office in front of colleagues, sexual harassment, outright refusal to do their job, regular failure to meet deadlines, blatant disregard for institutional standards requiring intervention from the C-suite, and so much more.
    The problem is that my “Kevina” makes a big deal out of being multiply minoritized. As a result, there is a general disinterest from HR and the C-suite in taking action for fear that Kevina will sue upon termination, even though there is more than enough evidence to make the case to do so.
    I’ve found that with employees like this, companies can get so concerned with being sued by fired employees who are a minority, have a disability, etc., that they lost sight of the huge liabilities that these employees can open them up to. That’s potentially what is happening here with OP’s company. It is surely part of what is happening in mine.

    1. honeygrim*

      thewurst above mentioned a former, similarly terrible, coworker who supposedly sued and got her job back. But I wonder if the rumor mill confused “sued and won” with “sued and the company settled” or “threatened to sue and the company gave in.”

      Unless the corporate attorneys are absolutely terrible, I can’t see how someone could win a lawsuit based on the premise that “I should be allowed to say and do awful, harassing, and potentially illegal things at work because of my personal circumstances.” On the other hand, I could definitely picture a company so averse to lawsuits or poor publicity that they’d immediately cave to the threat of one, or settle out of court.

      Of course, I’m not an attorney, so maybe it’s easier to win this kind of lawsuit than I thought. Or maybe it depends on the jurisdiction?

      I am just astounded that someone could make threats, sexually harass a vendor, and admit to that “I stole your SSN” thing without anyone in a position of authority doing anything about it.

      1. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

        My understanding (also not a lawyer) is that these types of lawsuits are actually pretty hard to win in the US. Courts have favored employers more in the last decade. So the excuse “so and so might sue” is pathetic. Let them sue.
        FWIW, I’ve been doing research into age discrimination lawsuits- they are virtually unwinnable now- so that’s where I’m forming a lot of my opinion.

        1. Boof*

          The main problem as I understand it is even frivolous lawsuits take some amount of money/energy/headache to defend; so if they can just find someone unethical enough to 1) take cases pro bono in hopes of a quick settlement or b) willing to take their money (if they are able to come up with it) to sue a bad case, I’m guessing that’s what leads to some of these horror stories.
          (I’ll also guess that most of the time frivolous cases are all hot air/never make it to an actual lawyer muchless court- and bad employees just need clear documentation and firing – but the settlement examples are a bit disheartening)

          1. Boof*

            (the expense of defending against frivolous lawsuits is of course also part of why big places with deep pockets can harass someone smaller into oblivion even if there’s no real case, as I understand it – grrr)

  56. HugeTractsofLand*

    Even one of these instances is worth a stern talking to, and taken together I cannot believe that she hasn’t been fired yet. These are egregious. I saw OP’s comments that Kevina’s other coworkers just laugh off the behavior, which is probably why nothing has happened yet; the work culture sucks. I’m glad that OP is leaving this mess, but I’m thinking about her poor replacement and also the customers and mailmen who have no choice but to interact with this woman. I wonder if OP can tell HR and their manager that Kevina and the tolerance of Kevina is one reason they’re leaving. I would also love to see a Glassdoor review along the lines of “a loudly and proudly bigoted coworker who makes 9/11 jokes, sexually harasses the mailmen, and uses company time to discuss guns and explosives that ‘can actually kill people’ is first in line for a promotion. RUN from this job.”

  57. BigLawEx*

    Is there anything a customer should do in a case like this? I’ve come across one or two businesses like this in my life and upon seeing behavior like this, I walk and boycott it. Only once has someone asked why (car dealership GM) and I declined to get into it because I didn’t want to do the emotional labor for that manager AND I thought, they *have* to know. It’s public (on the sales floor). There are tons of people around (salespeople), and this is who this business is, and if that’s the case, then not my monkeys, not my circus.

    2. Silence*

      Report it. Sometimes the person with firing power is a level or two up and not on site. Also some places care more about customer perspective than staff

      1. BigLawEx*

        Thanks for this perspective. In my head, like in the question today, it feels like everyone *must* know. In the future I’ll let them know.

  59. Lobstermn*

    Glad you’re getting out, OP. Ignore the people telling you to escalate; your focus should be you. If it crosses over to actually illegal harassment, get a lawyer.

  60. Hedgehug*

    This is just so beyond demented that everyone likes her. Unless they are all scared of her and trying to be her buddy as protection? She sounds like an absolute sociopath.
    Get out in 2 months and forget everybody who has supported her. They’re on their own.

  61. HighQualityButter*

    This is 1) awful, horrible, disgusting and 2) some of the funniest shit I have ever read.

    1. Elbe*

      It sounds like Kevina doesn’t really understand the difference between exaggerated sitcom hijinks and a real life workplace.

  62. BethRA*

    “she is very well liked by everyone but me…”

    I would bet good money that she’s not, and that there’s a combination of “we’re stuck with her so may as well play along to get along” and everyone assuming everyone ELSE likes her because, well, she’s still there, and people are (understandably) “going along to get along.”

    I used to work at a coffee house with a horrible, toxic, Kevina of a coworker. Our boss was under the impression that our customers liked her and found her funny. And people DID seem to play along with her act.He once laughed about how he’d sat her down and given her a written warning aobut her behavior…and a bonus at the same time (yes, I am still holding a grudge).

    When she finally quit, colleagues and customers kept coming up and saying how relieved they were that she’s left. Others said they would sometimes avoid the place if they knew she was on. I really can’t blame them, because as obnoxious as she could be, it probably felt safer to nod and smile than have her pissed at you.

    1. linger*

      In this case we can trust the OP, who has replied in several comments to note that these coworkers socialise with Kevina outside work.
      Which makes her workplace behaviour more likely to be excused, not as representing autism (because it doesn’t), but simply as Kevina acting as the class clown, intending to entertain and maintain popularity among her friends — however much it may alienate those who are not her friends, and however crude, tasteless and inappropriate those behaviours are in a workplace.

  63. Girasol*

    If I remember correctly from that mandatory class I had to attend about workplace violence, this was the sort of behavior that we were absolutely supposed to report. We were told that usually after someone comes in and shoots up a workplace, coworkers remember that talk about violence, like the OP describes, preceded the disaster. But since the person was “just kidding” and their talk was annoying but not hurting anything, no one wanted to be the one to tattle and get that person in trouble. We were under orders to speak up if we heard talk of violence and leave it up to HR to figure out whether it was someone’s inappropriate idea of what’s funny or whether it was a crisis about to happen.

    1. honeygrim*

      I was thinking the same thing! We had one of those training classes recently, and as I read the LW’s account, I was thinking “this sounds like that list of ‘potential signs of danger’ in the PowerPoint.”

  64. CJ*

    For the list, OP:

    > She’s also started saying “Ohmm Shaman God” in a weird voice as a sort of prayer? I honestly don’t know why that started, that might just be annoying

    is absolutely religious discrimination, layering a reference to Jake Angeli (safe search _on_ ) over laid on top of “Om shanti”, a Sanskrit phrase common in Hindu and Buddhist practice. She’s not even being original, since I’ve heard that circling like four years ago.

  65. Seeking Second Childhood*

    IMHO, Those delivery guys would have been well within their rights to refuse delivery if she refused to stop.

  66. NuclearOption*

    You could go nuclear and report her to your area FBI office, if you think she might become violent or is involved in an extremist group. It might just scare her into shutting up IRL.

    (Did that to my cousin who owns 10+ guns, regularly practices all of them, and has similar hard right views- when he posted about vague huge changes and plans for his life no one would see coming. They didn’t get him on anything, but now he is on a list and scared).

  67. Gh0st*

    I’d like to push back on some of the commenters saying that being autistic has absolutely nothing to do with Kevina’s behavior. I don’t think it excuses her behavior and I don’t think it’s the sole cause (someone mentioned Captain Awkward’s quote that someone can be disabled AND an a-hole, which is very likely the case here). HOWEVER, I do think that, depending on the context you come from, it’s very possible for autistic people to learn to do/say very inappropriate things and think that their behavior is reasonable. Similarly, autistic people can be particularly vulnerable to propaganda and inflammatory misinformation that often leads people to extremist, fringe beliefs/behaviors.

    Basically, if you’re learning to mask from jerks or extremists and don’t have the ability to understand that, you can grow into a terribly-behaved person without a way to realize it or course-correct. Plus, the ‘strong sense of justice’ some folks reference can actually be a detriment here, as not everyone’s ‘justice’ is calibrated the same way. For example, Kevina trying to organize a walk-out in support of a known sex trafficker might be an expression of HER idea of justice (this is related to a common misconception of what the ‘strong sense of justice’ symptom actually means- we don’t inherently have a better sense of right vs. wrong).

    Personally, I grew up pretty much completely surrounded by bigoted people and I learned to ‘fit in’ with them (read: mask) by doing/saying things that sound vaguely similar to what LW describes. On top of that, I made a lot of friends as a young adult who had ‘edgy’ humor, so my understanding of what was okay to joke about got further blurred and my behavior went unchecked. I honestly never had any hate in my heart, I was just struggling to fit in with neurotypicals and had learned a very maladaptive way to go about that. It’s taking a lot for me to grow up enough to un-learn these behaviors, but what really helps is 1) having people NOT pretend that what I say/do is okay and 2) going to therapy and doing a lot of self-reflection.

    I say all this for a few reasons. First, because I think the even the implicit ideas that autistic people have some better sense of right vs. wrong and that our autism can’t negatively interact with other parts of our backgrounds is ableist, and I want to flag that for others. And second, it’s really valuable to understand that autistic people can be particularly vulnerable to propaganda, misinformation, and bigotry (on top of other types of social manipulation/abuse) that can lead to these sorts of inappropriate behaviors. Not because those like Kevina deserve a pass or any more compassion than the next person, but because it supports the idea that the best response in these situations is to name the behavior your seeing, make it clear you don’t condone it, and enforce boundaries/consequences if the behavior continues. Both as a kindness to her and to those around her. Then, she can choose whether to continue being a wildly-out-of-line jerk or recalibrate. (P.S. This isn’t to say it’s LW’s job to do this… if anything, it’s the boss’s actual job.).

    1. The Prettiest Curse*

      This was a really interesting and useful comment. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

      1. Gh0st*

        Thank you! This is obviously a topic very close to my heart, so I’m glad you found value in my comment!

    2. N C Kiddle*

      Thank you for saying this; quite a few of the comments jarred on me for this reason. No, autistic people aren’t all lovely and well meaning. We are first and foremost people, and the thing about people is they can be terrible for all sorts of reasons

      1. March*

        isn’t that exactly why her autism shouldn’t make a difference in WHETHER she is held accountable?
        I imagine it would be helpful if the HOW was tailored to it, but surely not the IF.

        1. Gh0st*

          Hey, sorry but I think you misunderstood my (or maybe N C Kiddle’s) comment. I’m sharing nuances about autism, my personal experiences as an autistic person, and highlighting that clear communication and enforcing boundaries/consequences really helps people affected by the issues I’ve described (and those being subjected to their behavior).

      2. Gh0st*

        Agreed- I think it’s really important to realize that autistic people aren’t inherently kinder or more just! That idea is just another form of ablism.

        I also think it’s really important to recognize that autism can make you particularly vulnerable to things like propaganda. I find that second part gets glossed over or forgotten a lot of the time, which, in our age of misinformation and deliberately polarizing rhetoric, shouldn’t be the case.

  69. Worldwalker*

    Rules against sexual harassment exist because sexual harassment is a bad thing, not because the rules are something neurotypical people can comply with easily. (Voiceover: They can’t) It’s a bad thing no matter who’s doing it, a drunken frat boy or a presidential candidate. It’s not some kind of shibboleth. And the world is full of autistic people who wouldn’t dream of harassing anyone.

    Repeat for all the other things she’s done, replacing names as necessary.

  70. Alex*

    Sounds like one of those people who thrives on negative attention. Doesn’t sound like HR will do all that much if they haven’t already. Thank your lucky stars you are leaving Kevina behind as you move on to your next thing!

  72. tw1968*

    LW, if no one knows you’re leaving yet, THIS would be an excellent reason to give when you give notice. “The company has taken no action against a person who’s made inflammatory political remarks, remarks about guns, remarks about looking up my SSN which then gives her ALL my personal information, allowing her to doxx me to other like-minded lunatics if she finds out I don’t share her political views, which she expresses loudly and constantly. I fear for my safety now and even after I leave” …and when you make that complaint, make it in writing and copy yourself.

  73. tricia l*

    I am actually concerned that there is more here than attention seeking. Is she possibly decompensating and is really mentally ill? Some of these things sound frightening.

  74. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

    OP- once you’re out please do an update and tell us what kind of company hosts events where you have to take bottle caps off but also has everyone’s SSN. I’m baffled, in a stay up all night with the string going between the pictures kind of way.

  75. Aerin*

    I would have sworn this was my stepmom-in-law up until the bit about being single. She’s a life-of-the-party gullible MAGA type.

    The one time I managed to stop her in her tracks was when she was off on a transphobic rant and I looked her dead in the eye and said, “Refusing to call someone the name they have asked to be called is extremely ****ing rude.”

    So this is the tactic I now recommend for this type of person. Whatever behavior they’re doing, it’s likely antisocial and disruptive, and that makes it rude. Don’t engage with the merits or their beliefs or their neurospiciness or whatever. “[Behavior] is extremely rude and I won’t tolerate it in my presence.” And then act. Walk away, refuse to be around her while she’s doing that. I would avoid openly antagonizing her directly, but you can put up a strong boundary for yourself and make these other enablers deal with it.

    And honestly, if they fire you for it, so what? You’ll be eligible for unemployment, and if anyone asks about it you can say that a coworker would harass others and discuss violence and the company did nothing about it. Anyone reasonable will understand.

  76. Hey, I'm Wohrking Heah!*

    If Kevina has autism, I’m the King of England. I bet she thinks that this is a foolproof cover for her behavior and has no idea what autism actually is like, just thinks it’s a one dimensional cartoon. Jerks love to try and find cover. My work life includes criminals who plead not guilty by reason of insanity because they think they’ll go free. They have no idea what someone who is criminally insane acts like.

  77. Suze*

    Wait a second, from what OP said, this isn’t an average work place. It appears to be some kind of closely republican politics adjacent mad-house where all this is considered normal (based on comments about clients stabbing each other and how this is normal in the current political climate). Kevin a is genuinely liked, because she is saying things everyone agrees with. OP just needs to get out. I strongly doubt HR will do anything.

  78. .*

    Engaging with her is a fool’s errand but do you ever just tell her to…shut up? You’re leaving anyway so who cares? Every time she opens her mouth just immediately tell her to shut up. Then walk away and ignore her. EVERY TIME UNTIL YOU LEAVE ON YOUR LAST DAY.

    That being said:
    Alison raised a lot of good points but your boss has clearly already proven that they don’t care (or are just oblivious or incompetent. Or being blackmailed. Or is related to your idiot coworker). I wouldn’t be surprised if your HR team is cut from the same cloth as your boss.

    So honestly, I don’t know that you can or even should do anything before you shake the dust from this joke of a company forever.

    Here is what I see happening eventually.

    The worthless waste of oxygen you call a coworker will someday say the wrong thing to the wrong person* and:
    —Best case scenario: they get verbally slapped so hard that they’re literally born again, as in they are now 3 months old and placed for adoption by a non-idiot family. So maybe—MAYBE—they have a mere sliver of a chance of growing up with one-eighth of a soul.

    —Worst case scenario: they make that 9/11 joke to someone who lost a loved one on 9/11. And when Useless Waste of Space Coworker calls the cops on that person for the extreme physical assault they rightfully deserve, they are instead arrested for some kind of terrorism conspiracy. Because seriously WTF.

    *the wrong person being someone with a Texas sized vault of bail money and a defense attorney scarier than Darth Vader after he was fighting with Aetna all morning about his chest plate respirator’s prior authorization.

  79. Special Ed Guy*

    I work with autistic adolescents, with a goal to teach them these types of attention seeking behaviors aren’t appropriate so they cam hopefully find their strengths and maintain employment as adults. The key is to be direct. They can’t interpret body language and facial expressions easily, so an uncomfortable smirk is as socially rewarding as a belly laugh. You can’t hint at boundaries like you would with most coworkers. “You may not realize this but that topic makes people uncomfortable.” Most appreciate the direct advice. They just want to be liked.

    1. Gh0st*

      Thank you for this thoughtful comment (and for your work)! I feel like it relates well to what I was trying to share elsewhere in the comments.

  81. ElliottRook*

    As someone autistic, them refusing to manage her based on the fact that she’s autistic is infuriating. For every autistic person that behaves like this and every two or three that have such high support needs that they can’t work at all, there are fifty of us that do just fine in office spaces and fifty of us that have less-traditional jobs but still know how to behave to maintain harmony in a workplace. (Many, many of us are hyper-empathetic and terrified of rocking the boat!) We may come across as awkward or ask if something that the rest of the employees take for granted is “okay,” but we’re not often out here wrecking everyone else’s workplace!

  82. TheBunny*

    OP I also wonder if in your mind you are downplaying this a little. As I was reading the way you were telling it, it comes across as lighthearted and like you think she’s joking.

    My suggestion is to reread your letter in a *taking this very seriously* time and then immediately go to HR.

    It’s amazing how we as humans can condition ourselves to hearing things that we just decide to filter as normal or funny. It’s a defense mechanism, absolutely. But Kevina needs about 97 immediate HR complaints.

  83. Mrs. Hawiggins*

    This is where me turning around and yelling, “Cut it out!” would happen, just like I did to Billy What’s His Name when he kept pulling my hair in the 4th grade. I literally would not be able to hold it in. It almost feels the same.

    Just as someone earlier said she’s going to say something to the wrong person who for a split second says “professionalism be damned.”

    Why can’t some managers manage…

  84. Sagegreen*

    Wow…I gasped at the 9/11 “joke” of hers, but really, all of them would have me yelling at her and asking her what the f is her problem. Please let us know if there is an update.

  85. Hibiscus*

    I think you should call CPS about the drunk driving. If she kills someone one day, maybe this way it will be less likely to include her kids.

  86. Midnightxx3*

    1) Report as soon as possible ( if its not “enough” you can at least start a trail of it being a continuing issue); and
    2) report to multiple people. My last HORRIBLE job (year turn over over 100%) had a manager where we were originally told that HR was why a racist, sexist, sexually harassing coworker wasn’t fired because of “connections”; I dont know why the manager wanted to keep them–but once someone went directly to HR. They were gone within a few weeks.

  87. Rep (taylor’s version)*

    We snorted smarties and pixie sticks—in high school and only for jokes OCCASIONALLY.

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