can I ask why my coworker was fired?

by Alison Green on October 29, 2024

A reader writes:

I have always thought of my job as a place where people didn’t get fired unless they were obviously and consistently bad at their jobs. I have been here for six years and I know that when we get the “goodbye so-and-so” emails from HR about people unexpectedly leaving, that probably means they were fired. When people leave because they got a new job or otherwise leave on good terms, they usually announce it themselves, with their final date of employment listed so we can wrap up any projects, and they typically include lots of thank you’s and appreciation for their coworkers. So when the news comes from HR without any advance notice, I assume it was probably a firing. Based on what I know about how our company is run, I also assumed the fired people probably had been warned or otherwise had known that their performance wasn’t up to par. And while I haven’t been privy to details, when it’s happened in the past I haven’t ever been surprised.

However, in the last couple of weeks, two employees were (I assume) let go about a week apart from each other. I don’t think either of their firings had to do with the other. We got the typical emails from HR saying the company has ended their relationship with each person, contact their manager for project questions, and we wish them the best. What has me thrown is that both of these people were, in my opinion, stellar coworkers who had been with the company for years, one almost for a decade.

This workplace is low drama, low gossip, and what I would consider healthy. But this has thrown people into a tizzy. One of the fired people was the cousin to a current employee and I think a lot of folks want to ask her about it, or ask what happened. I don’t know if anyone has. But everyone is really confused, and personally I am worried! What could have happened to these seemingly high-performing employees to have caused them to lose their jobs? And who could be next?

So my question is, what kind of questions are appropriate to ask, and to whom? Do I just need to accept that the people who make firing decisions know what they’re doing and have their reasons? Is it ever appropriate to ask why someone was fired and to express that it’s making me nervous? I know I’m not alone in this and the whole episode has caused our quiet company to descend into gossip and fear because we don’t get it. What is the best course of action here, if any?

You can read my answer to this letter at New York Magazine today. Head over there to read it.

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{ 136 comments }

{ 136 comments… read them below }

  1. Junior Assistant Peon*

    I’ve seen a few abrupt deprtures like this that turned out to be a coworker voluntarily quitting for a job at a direct competitor and being immediately walked out and paid for their notice period. That would explain someone who did not appear to be on thin ice leaving abruptly as a fired employee would.

    1. Guacamole Bob*

      This is very much a thing in some types of jobs and not in others. I’d think that if OP’s company were a kind where this matters, or if the particular people involved were in relevant roles it would be more apparent to her if she’s been there a while.

    2. Turquoisecow*

      My old company did this often. Word of mouth would usually send the truth around, but if this is a big enough company, maybe the word doesn’t get to OP.

      Also in most cases HR didn’t send farewell emails. Those of us who interacted directly might get an email from the manager, “Bob is no longer with the company, please contact me for TPS reports,” but there was rarely anything official from HR. My current company I only become aware the person in X position left when I get an email welcoming a new person to that role. Although they did send an email a few years ago that someone was suspended indefinitely, and while I never heard why, I assumed that was some legal issue.

    3. VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

      If my employer did that routinely, I would wait until my actual last day to submit a 3-month notice.

      1. amoeba*

        Nice thing in my country – you get paid for that period, anyway. (It’s apparently called “gardening leave” as I learned here) – so basically three months off at full salary! Unfortunately we don’t do this at all in my company, oh well…

    4. fhqwhgads*

      I’ve also seen it happen that someone quit in a huff – but to someone who didn’t know that it seemed like exactly what happens when someone’s fired.

    5. AnotherOne*

      My office does this and I’ve seen it where a portion of the office is sorta like- oh, finally- and the rest of the office is shocked.

      And the difference is essentially his friends/people at his level v. the people impacted by his work.

      The people impacted were the ones aware of the problems. Everyone else was just shocked.

      They were equally shocked when he’d report having issues applying for jobs and wasn’t getting them but I can’t imagine he got a good recommendation from our bosses.

      Why didn’t he make changes or quit? My office was notorious for not firing people. It was an active joke. You could be terrible at your job and they wouldn’t fire you. He was one of 2 people that (to us) they all of a sudden fired after years of issues. They no longer let issues build- people are let go much sooner.

      But the first time was a shock to everyone.

      1. Anon for this*

        I managed someone just like this.

        They had so many friends and buddies because they could not and did not do their actual job. The PIP process was exhausting, they had a fundamental disagreement that I as their manager could actually require them to do anything in particular, such as show up to meetings, report progress on projects, be given deadlines, and they would argue with HR and my management that I was being obviously unfair to ask them to do these things and then write down when they didn’t do them. I honestly believe that they didn’t make changes because they believed in their heart that I was unreasonable and that I couldn’t possibly be allowed to fire them for not doing the job as I defined it instead of doing whatever they deigned to do for the company on whatever time scale it happened.

        After their last day I got so many people telling me they were so sorry to see them leave… but it was only people who had never had to do work with them. The people who had to work with them were the ones who would quietly tell me they were looking forward to me finding a good candidate for that role.

  2. IHaveKittens*

    Could it be layoffs, rather than firings? Companies tend to do these on the quiet so that people don’t get riled up.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yep, two senior people close in time could be budget cuts, that was my first thought. The company is NOT going to share this because they don’t want everyone to rush for the exits.

      1. ferrina*

        Yeah, I was wondering about that too. OP, watch the job boards and see if the role is reposted. If it’s not, it may be a layoff.

        *quick note- layoffs aren’t always for budgetary reasons. I was laid off when my department reorganized and decided they didn’t want to continue the functions that I had been responsible for. If it’s a small department, this could be just one or two people that are laid off.

        1. Annie*

          Yes, my company reorganized and got rid of a bunch of middle management (some of whom were great employees and contributed a lot), but also seemed to get rid of some of the troublesome employees (people who were good at their jobs but may have rubbed some higher ups the wrong way) at the same time under the guise of reorganization.

      2. Momma Bear*

        My company has done layoffs without notice to the greater company. We had to find out via word of mouth who was gone.

    2. Cinn*

      But that can have the exact opposite effect. At an OldJob we had super secretive lay offs that if it weren’t for one person explaining they needed to hand work over, management wouldn’t have even told us that’s why several people were being walked out the building. (There wasn’t even an announcement after the fact of who had gone, you found out when you went to find them or the rumourmill finally caught up.) It took a while for everyone to get over the shock and so, so many rumours were doing the rounds. Then, just as everyone started to get back to normal, there was another round of layoffs (if memory serves it was about a week gap).

      The secrecy in which management conducted said lay offs did nothing to stop people getting riled up. Though, I suppose it did stop people getting riled up until they happened. Though the next time they did lay offs they asked for volunteers so they clearly didn’t a repeat of the secrecy.

      1. IHaveKittens*

        That happened at the last 2 companies I worked at. Because we were mostly remote (the first one was all remote) it was easier for management to do stealth layoffs. In some cases, it took a while before I knew that people were gone. One time was bad. One of the sales people was laid off and no one said anything to me, which meant I couldn’t tell my team. I got a rather strongly worded email from one of clients that they had tried to contact their sales person and got a “invalid email” auto response. Not a good look for any company. I had to pour a lot of oil on troubled waters that week.

        1. Cinn*

          Can you be gobsmacked and facepalm at the same time? Because that’s my reaction to a company not sorting out the basics of redirections for their client’s point of contacts…

    3. new laptop who dis*

      Yeah I have worked for numerous smaller companies where layoffs came along one by one, rather in groups, and employees at large were not given any context beyond “Jane has left the company.” It’s quite common in my industry, at least.

      I think it’s a disservice to Jane for sure, because without that context it can mar her reputation with her former colleagues, even if *Jane* is told she’s being let go strictly for business reasons and that her termination is not for performance issues, everyone else is going to assume she’s been canned.

      But, as mentioned above, management tends to prefer to keep layoffs on the down low — they care more about keeping the pretense of everything being fine than they do about Jane’s reputation.

      1. NoIWontFixYourComputer*

        I was the victim of a “Jane” type layoff. The company sent out the usual “NoIWont and the company have parted ways”.

        I was contacted by several co-workers asking what the heck happened.

    4. kanomi*

      Normally those laid off get notice. These people more likely were let go for cause if they are planning meetings with LW in the morning then are gone in the afternoon. But what did they do? The fact that there’s two of them within a week is weird. An affair? Did they collude to embezzle? A coincidence? It is a mysterious event.

  3. doreen*

    Just another possibility – I’ve known more than one person who left a job suddenly due to medical reasons without any previous extended absence , so the assumption that these people were fired may or may not be correct.

    1. sometimeswhy*

      Yes. I had a colleague out for an extended period of time for a medical absence but it was sudden/with no advance preparation, after a big unrelated mistake, and with no ETA for returning and it was serious enough that the colleague might not have returned at all so it looked like a suspension.

      Meanwhile, their manager was left with, “Kevortney is out unexpectedly with no firm return date. Their duties will be distributed as follows until further notice.” being the kindest option until there was an anticipated return date. Which they updated immediately as soon as there was one.

    2. ferrina*

      This is a good thing to call out- I hadn’t even thought that one person or both people may have needed to suddenly leave due to personal factors.

    3. Disappointed Australien*

      When that’s happened around me management have always made some announcement, often of the form “our commiserations and best wishes to Jane who has recently left the company to care for her health”. Or in one case “Dave’s wife has contacted us to explain that sadly Dave passed away two weeks ago” (he didn’t seem sick, but then suddenly he was and it was cancer)

      OTOH I have been engineering R&D in a factory where one whole production line was made redundant with very little notice after a customer fired us and refused to pay their last 3 months of invoices. I don’t *think* we sold them junk, but it wasn’t an area I was involved with.

  4. Overwrought & Undercompensated*

    My company has had a habit of walking people out the day they give notice, under uneven rules of when that applies. The most common one was taking a job with a competitor, but sometimes it was simply a bad manager being mad about them leaving and saying, nope, no 2 weeks. There’s a always the chance your good-seeming employees chose to leave for positions deemed too competitive to allow them to continue to access company assets.

    That said, we did learn about Duck Club not that long ago (10/2/24), so you never know what kind of nonsense people get up to while also being good at their jobs.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Yep, a really great (in my experience of them) coworker was marched out a few years back for committing a crime on the job. I certainly never would have suspected it, nor was poor judgement ever visible in their work. If in your experience a company is usually reasonable you may want to give them some leeway.

      1. Ama*

        Yes I had a boss years ago who was widely adored at our employer and seen as next in line for a C-level position …. and then an audit of the department he worked in before mine revealed that he’d been embezzling from the company for years. He was immediately fired and because the circumstances were so embarrassing to the company (he was exploiting a loophole in the employee reimbursement process that really shouldn’t have been there if proper accounting procedures were being followed) the official line was “he’s left [company],” with no further information. No one saw it coming.

        1. Ellie*

          Same with me. Two seemingly good, competent people were abruptly let go with very little information around the circumstances a couple of years ago. A couple of years before that, three people were let go under similar circumstances. The company did not learn its lesson, because in both cases there was such rampart speculation and gossip around the whole thing, that they were forced to put out an official notice about a week after the incident. It turned out the first ones were keeping porn at work (illegal porn, apparently – the servers had been surrendered to law enforcement) and the second ones had violated some laws by accessing information they shouldn’t have, and then using it for their benefit. I don’t know why the company didn’t just say so, but both times, they essentially had to make people aware because it was such a bad look.

          Other than that, gross incompetence (the kind that affects everybody) and/or egregiously bad conduct are about the only things that will do it where I work. Or layoffs, but whenever we’ve had them, they’ve always announced it after the fact, letting people know that if you haven’t heard anything, your job is not in danger.

          OP, I think there’s no harm in asking your manager what could have happened. If she can’t tell you, then she’ll tell you that, but you might get some reassurance. Also have a think about what you know about the people. Are they the type to cut corners? Argue with people? If they are seniors they’ll be more expensive to keep on, did their performance make that a worthwhile proposition? You might come across the answer on your own.

    2. Heffalump*

      I had an abusive employer (sole proprietor) who, on getting 2 weeks’ notice from an employee, would say, “You can’t quit, you’re fired.” My manager got this treatment a couple of years after I was fired (for perceived poor work, not for giving notice). My ex-manager said she thought the rationale was that “Miranda Priestly” thought the employee would commit some kind of sabotage during their notice period. She went on to say that with Miranda, it may have been a case of judging others by herself. Based on my experience at that company, it also may have been just plain meanness.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Just one as far as I know. That original letter from 2015 that you linked to was re-printed on October 2, 2024.

  5. CS*

    In my industry, a lot of times when you quit you leave immediately due to privacy/access to client data (which is silly because if you were going to do something nefarious you would do it before you gave notice…) If you aren’t told to leave right away, you usually aren’t allowed to tell anyone until the last minute.

    Might not be the case in this situation, but it definitely isn’t uncommon for it to look like a firing when it’s not.

    1. Sloanicota*

      True, but then usually the employee reaches out to a past coworker on LinkedIn or whatever and the story eventually gets back to the rumor mill. At least in my experience. Whereas a fair amount of people who were fired or laid off go into hiding in the immediate aftermath to recover.

    2. TheBunny*

      I’ve always wondered about that. If you know you are going to be immediately walked out when you resign and are the type to do nefarious things… don’t you just do them the day before you quit?

  6. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    We had a coworker who just quit with no notice, no future plans. She just was going through some personal stuff and one day it was just more than she wanted to deal with. Mid week she just walked out.

    With 2 it is less likely, but just because they didn’t let you know ahead of time doesn’t mean they were necessarily fired.

    1. Momma Bear*

      I will never forget the coworker who suddenly stopped coming to work, didn’t have a phone, etc. Turned out she’d just decided to move to a far away state and didn’t look back. The manager had to get HR to fire her for abandoning her post. Another employee at a different company may have been arrested. Office manager and boss had to pack up their things and mail them to the last known address.

  7. Who Plays Backgammon?*

    got a pop-up to start a free trial in order to read the article rather than opening the article right up.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Once again: Yes, it has a paywall. It’s like $5 a month. Allison deserves to get paid for her work.

      1. not nice, don't care*

        Sometimes it’s about the money (because who needs/can afford 5 million microsubscriptions, and sometimes it’s about the never-ending data drip (aka there’s no such thing as a free trial).
        Yay for folx who have no worries about either.

        1. Aquamarine*

          Yeah, I don’t have a lot of subscriptions myself – but if something is paywalled, I just pass it by and move on to the other free content. There’s loads on this site.

        2. Tobias Funke*

          Because wanting Alison to be fairly compensated for her valuable work means Dust Bunny doesn’t care about data protection or the death by a thousand papercuts of $5 subscriptions? They were merely stating a fact.

  8. Dust Bunny*

    The one person whose dismissal from my employer we did not see coming was fired for clocking in on their phone from the bus (before they were actually at work). One: They weren’t at work yet. Two: We had specifically been warned not to do this when the timecard program was implemented. Three: If it had been a legitimate need to clock in, such as the office internet being down, there was still no reason to do it because our supervisors or HR could amend the timecard for us and have always been responsive to doing so. Most of us didn’t find out until much later, though, when the fired person told an acquaintance who still worked here, outside of work.

    So sometimes it’s an acute problem and not a chronic one. (To the best of my knowledge this person was not stellar but was solid and wasn’t otherwise in danger of being let go.)

  9. Sloanicota*

    If you were at all close to either of the fired coworkers, you can also reach out on LI or their personal email if you have it (maybe don’t “stalk” them through IG or FB unless you were quite close). DON’T ask them what happened, just connect with them, maybe share you enjoyed working with them, were sorry to hear of what happened, or ask if there’s a way you can assist them now (sending job descriptions you see that might be a fit, perhaps serving as a contact or even a reference). Through being kind you may also get a sense of how they feel about what happened or they may even want to tell you. But this has to be done in a spirit of genuine concern, not nosiness, so YMMV.

    1. Anonym*

      Yeah, and the message can even be as simple as, “Hope we can stay in touch!” which covers all bases, firing or otherwise.

      1. Baby Yoda*

        I always reach out like that, but at my company it’s fairly obvious if someone was let go. The email from HR states today (or yesterday) was their last day. Typically if it says “Charlie Brown” Last Day — 2 weeks from now– they are choosing to leave.

    2. new laptop who dis*

      I can’t emphasize this enough — folks that get terminated abruptly really appreciate this kind of outreach. It is hard enough to suddenly be get let go (for whatever reason, performance, layoff, etc) but feels really cold to never hear another word from any of your former colleagues.

      People think it’s awkward to reach out, but it’s very much appreciated. Even if it’s just a quick “hey I’ll miss you around here, let’s keep in touch” — that’s vastly better than radio silence from the people that you spent all your waking hours with for years.

      1. L-squared*

        Yep. Happened to me about a year ago. There are people who I had warm even “work friend” relationships with. I got let go (for no good reason honestly) and never heard from them again.

        I have very strong negative opinions about those people now

      2. Judge Judy and Executioner*

        Yes this. It’s happened twice to me in my career, and I truly appreciated the people who reached out to me. One person sent the kindest message on LinkedIn, and I’ve used similar language to reach out to others who have been let go. Saying “I was sad (sorry, surprised, etc.) to hear about the news of your departure and wish you the best” takes very little time and means SO MUCH.

        1. London Calling*

          Happened to me once and a former manager (who went into bat for me and was prepared to resign) called me to let me know what had REALLY happened that I got the blame and the perp walk for. I never really rated him as a manager but decades later I still remember that act and how grateful I was (the conversation actually started “I’m calling to tell you how this turned out because I know those barstewards won’t”)

          1. Banana Pyjamas*

            Yes, it means a lot when the manager goes to bat. Mine actually DID resign due to my termination. It’s a strange sort of balm.

            1. London Calling*

              He was my manager at the time at the time I was alleged to have done what resulted in me being fired (it had been done, but not by me, I just took the fall because someone panicked about “departmental reputation”) and as my then manager was fully prepared to fall on his sword for me. Not always the best manager when I worked for him but a very decent human being.

    3. this-is-fine.jpeg*

      As a nosy person, I reach out when someone is leaving with a “I’ll miss working with you!” (this works when you’re genuinely close to the person / have enjoyed working with them) and sometimes “where are you off to next?” and have gotten great intel that way! It’s a genuine question coming out of curiosity / support for a coworker you’ve had a relationship with. And perhaps because most people don’t ask or don’t reach out, I’ve gotten very open responses from people leaving.
      The important part here is that you have to read the room. I don’t do this with someone who I never talk to / rarely talked to or someone I feel won’t be receptive. But worth a try!

    4. Jean (just Jean)*

      Yes! I’ve been on both sides of the “leave a job under less than ideal conditions” experience. When I’ve been the one reaching out it was always appreciated. (Caveat: I only did this when I genuinely liked the coworker and was totally unaware of the reasons, happy or not, for their departure.) In one case I ran down to the front door to say ‘goodbye’ and exchange hugs on the sidewalk. Past coworkers and I haven’t always stayed in touch, but I’ve never regretted parting on good terms. Workplaces can be demoralizing. I’m glad to push back with positive energy.

  10. Pay no attention...*

    I’ve know a few people who have left of their own choice and just didn’t want to go through the whole goodbye email, wrap up projects, have a luncheon, etc. they just wanted to leave quietly for their own personal reasons. I wouldn’t automatically assume that an email from HR or a manager would equal fired — they just need to make an announcement so that business can continue. Maybe they won a grand sum of money in the lottery and just ghosted their job.

    If you have a personal relationship with one of your former coworkers, you might ask what they’re doing next, but I wouldn’t jump to, “OMG, why were you fired?”

    1. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

      “Maybe they won a grand sum of money in the lottery and just ghosted their job.”

      So the interviewer from the letter last week was right. “Don’t tell me you’d come to work after you won the lottery! Don’t lie to me — I know you’re lying!”

      1. Pay no attention...*

        Once upon a time, I thought I’d still want to work even if I won enough in the lottery to last the next 40 years — I love what I do, I like my coworkers, I’d hate being bored at home, I’ve seen many family members sink into depression after retirement, etc. — these days, I might ghost if I won enough to live for a year.

      2. Who Plays Backgammon?*

        ha ha ha, I just told a neighbor that since my Saturday lottery ticket didn’t win a dime, I wouldn’t be dropping my laptop off on Monday and telling my boss, “So long!” Neighbor gasped, “You mean you’d actually DO that?”
        Well, maybe I’d call Sunday night.

    2. honeygrim*

      Oh yeah, I had a colleague who retired and absolutely did NOT want the big goodbye bash. They told a few of us the week before, but otherwise the news wasn’t shared until they’d already left.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        I had a coworker who retired and told nobody but his boss. Came in Monday and then on Tuesday his retirement was announced and that he’d already had his last day. I’m sure he didn’t want “a big fuss” or a party because he was an extreme introvert, but it was still weird/sad. I don’t have the impression that he was hating the job or anything, but who knows.

        1. 1-800-BrownCow*

          Extreme introverts that don’t want a big fuss aren’t weird/sad. Let’s stop viewing people and their habits that are different from “the norm” as such. Nothing wrong with wanting to retire quietly and not be bombarded with lots of questions/comments from people.

          1. Georgia Carolyn Mason*

            Yeah, why was it weird/sad that someone expressed his wishes and his employer listened? A work transition turning out the way an employee wanted it is awesome!

      2. Heffalump*

        I had a coworker like that. At some point it became more or less known that she was retiring in the near future. And then one night she left a note in her cube for the rest of us to read next day. Among other things, she had said something like, “You don’t really want to see an old lady blush.”

  11. GreenShoes*

    Here are the reasons I’ve seen for sudden departures in my career:
    1. Resignation > Security risk. Mainly IT related positions
    2. Resignation > Joining a competitor
    3. Resignation effective immediately
    4. Fired > no fault just not working out (usually higher level positions) Think VP wasn’t happy with a Director
    5. Fired > after a PIP
    6. Fired > Immediate no warning (Think fight out in the parking lot)
    7. Resigned > Served notice not allowed to tell people they were leaving (this was weird and not normal for my company… it was an odd manager)
    8. Fired > Substance abuse at work

    I think it doesn’t necessarily hurt to ask a trusted coworker “Hey do you know what happened to George? Did he get a job at rival Cogswell Cogs? That was unexpected” I wouldn’t suddenly turn into the team gossip trying to get info. If they were a trusted customer you could always reach out on LinkedIn (or have a look to see if they announce their first day at Cogswell Cogs after working with you at Spacely Space Sprockets.

    1. Xhausted*

      I agree with your list.

      I’d also add, if I may:
      8. Fired (unwarranted) > after (unwarranted) PIP.
      9. Fired (unwarranted) > for unlawful “reason”.
      10. Resignation > management reacts badly.
      11. Resignation > serious medical or family issue, so effective immediately.
      12. Fired > senior person doing something unlawful or sketchy.
      13. Fired (unwarranted) > person who’d raised the alarm about something sketchy or unlawful.

      There’s a few others, but those immediately spring to mind.

      Basically, just because someone leaves quickly doesn’t mean they’ve been fired, and even if they have technically been fired, it doesn’t mean it was warranted (although sometimes it totally does).

  12. Heffalump*

    The “Why won’t my employer tell us why our coworker was fired?” post (November 8, 2013) is also pertinent.

  13. Lily Potter*

    OP: Stay calm. Do business as usual. If your office is like those I’ve worked in, the office information mill (eg gossip) will bring the answer(s) to you within a month. Of course, if you work remotely, your chances of being brought into that kind of loop are less, in which case you’ll just have to live without knowing what happened.

    1. 1-800-BrownCow*

      Please don’t assume the office information mill has the answer either. We had an employee fired from my company and as a manager, I can tell you said person deserved to be fired. They were clocking (hourly employee) and then leaving our facility for an hour or so and returning. They also stole some company items. Employee was well-liked and several people were shocked when they were fired and most people didn’t know what was happening. The leaving the facility and stealing was caught on the cameras at our employee entrance. Fired employee told the “office information mill” people that they were fired because fairly new male manager was sexist and didn’t think she deserved her technical position. As the only other female on the team, I can say that it was not true at all and fairly new male manager was one of my biggest advocates fore me in my role. But of course “office information mill” gossip is what spread around the company and was believed by many. When I moved in my management role 6 months later, I learned why former employee had been let go, yet the incorrect rumor was still the reason being spread by employees.

  14. Tech Industry Refugee*

    I could have written this letter. My small company has been experiencing a ton of turnover this year, to the point where I am not even surprised to see the HR emails. The odd thing is they don’t let the employees who are leaving voluntarily announce it so that they can wrap things up, say goodbye to people outside their team, etc. At former companies we would know a week ahead of time and have a little sendoff party, pass a card around, etc.

    I don’t think leadership understands how much it impacts morale to see people constantly leaving and only receiving boilerplate emails the day after they depart. There have also been people who I KNOW were fired and I worked with them and can’t think of anything they would have done severe enough for firing. It means everyone is always on edge wondering if they are next…

    1. I Have RBF*

      I have been witness to piecemeal layoffs, where maybe one or two people a month were let go, their positions eliminated, no notice, just meet with HR and then pack the office. This is the sneaky way to do layoffs, and is demoralizing.

  15. Red*

    So to my coworkers I was a high performing employee, helpful and friendly. But to my new boss (who I don’t think liked me on a personal level ((they were from a foreign culture where a lot of my personal identity is socially illegal))) I simply was dead weight. Didn’t matter that I was handling the workload of 2 people, that the whole department (not just my bit of it) was understaffed, and that he refused to speak with me a lot of the time making my job more difficult.

    It was a shock to me and my coworkers when I was let go cause our company was the same, usually good about working with people and coaching them, preferring to work through issues before heading to a firing. But not this new guy (who had been with the company for 4 ish years when he came onboard to our division).

    To the company’s credit though, he wasn’t the one to fire me (like I said I don’t think he liked to be near me), but our HR. They didn’t walk me out, so I spent the next few hours cleaning out my desk, downloading whatever I wanted from the computer (mostly personal stuff from my years of working there), and visiting everyone around the office to let them know I was let go and why I thought I was let go (since the reason they gave was BS).

    After I left within a month:
    -Another person (also performing well given the context) from my department was let go.
    -The only other person in my sub department (a relatively new hire) quit.
    -The general manager (who worked with my new boss) resigned.
    -Another person in an adjacent department who also had to work with my new boss accelerated their retirement and left the company.
    And I should mention, my new boss was supposed to be my grandboss, but when my former manager met with him for the first time they quit a week later with no notice.

    My friends remaining at the company miss me and the company is generally struggling right now because nearly a whole department was wiped out by this one guy.

    So sometimes it isn’t a firing. It’s just one guy who no one likes and who fires anyone he doesn’t like.

    1. Jamoche*

      Similar, except the sexist grand-manager merely took advantage of an upcoming mass layoff to put me on the list. Had the HR meeting where they assured me that, based on statistics, the number of people in my demographic were not disproportionally affected. Yeah, but my team lead wasn’t consulted, and if they had to lose a person, I’d be near the bottom of that list.

      Got sent back to my desk, told the whole team who were utterly shocked and took me out to a great going-away lunch.

    2. Xhausted*

      I’m so, so sorry that this happened to you! Experiences like this absolutely enrage me, and they are so, so common, which more people need to realise and be aware of. (The fact that it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean that it hasn’t happened; indeed, it’s very likely that it’s happened right under your nose, you just didn’t see it.)

      If it’s of any comfort, please take an internet hug from a stranger who can totally relate, as she’s been through it, too.

  16. Manders*

    I work at a public university where it’s almost impossible to get fired. The one case I know of was a guy who was caught by several people at several different times watching porn on his university-issued laptop in the men’s room. That’s right, the IT professional decided to use his work computer to watch porn in a stall of a restroom. He definitely deserved it!

    1. not nice, don't care*

      The head of my university department (being super vague) was fired, but the reason was all over the regional news recently. Why on earth do some folks think their sex lives belong in the workplace, on the public dime…

    3. I talk about motorcycles too much!*

      That’s nice to see. I used to work at a public university where it is almost impossible to get fired and we had a person who was repeatedly caught watching porn on his university-issued laptop at work and was NOT fired. Too many stories from people who witnessed this and it never was dealt with even after the repeated investigations. Our guy definitely deserved it too! Ewww…. So happy to be somewhere else now!

  17. What is going on??*

    I wrote about this in an open thread a few weeks ago, but our beloved HR recruiter “Gina” was gone at the end of last month. She was excellent at her job (she hired every open job rec we had) and was well liked across the company. NO ONE at the company, including her boss the head of HR, mentioned that she was no longer with the company. About a week later, we had a new recruiter start. But after some digging (looking at LinkedIn), the new recruiter worked at the same place the head of HR worked at before our current company…

    I reached out to the former recruiter (“Gina”) and she mentioned that she was blindsided and didn’t expect it. So I don’t know if she was fired or let go, but I want to ask someone because I’m worried about it. (we had formerly been with equity firm A, but had been bought been equity firm B a few months ago).

    I’ve applied to a few jobs (because my boss quit earlier this month), but haven’t had any interviews.

    1. new laptop who dis*

      Yeah this is something that’s super common. New boss comes in, wants to work with their own people… there’s nothing really wrong with the existing people, but since new boss didn’t hire them, they’re not acceptable. We had a new guy come in and within a year he’d replaced the entire department one by one… even though every single person he let go was perfectly good at their job.

        1. Space Needlepoint*

          Well put. I’ve seen someone start in a position and everyone who reported to them was gone in six months. Some were fired, some quit, some contracts weren’t renewed.

  18. Aggretsuko*

    Hi, I’m a former longtime employee who quit her job with 24 hours notice because they were going to be firing me otherwise. The answer to that question for me is called “mobbing,” because the management team decided they wanted to get rid of me, wrote me up constantly, suspended me, and caused me to have nervous breakdowns. I could not do anything right there and I’d been there longer than all of them. Between my age and my personality not being what they wanted, they decided to slowly campaign to drive me out. If a long term employee who’s always done excellent work is driven out like this, odds are high that someone or a bunch of someones decided they don’t like this person and wanted to get rid of them. They may have stood up to someone, reported someone to HR, or just gotten “old” or pissed off someone, and then they get targeted.

    I know of several other people who were fired from there and I generally had no idea why either. One person I was told “didn’t get it” and got canned after the end of probation, but she always seemed fine to me. I’m pretty sure another person stood up for herself against a bullying manager and got herself targeted for firing. A third former coworker also got inexplicably fired years ago and I had no clue why–I’ve run into him a few times of late and I didn’t ask him what happened and I’m sure he didn’t want to get into that hell again–but he seemed to vaguely indicate that he’d gotten similar treatment, except he couldn’t find a job before they booted him.

    I really would like to hope/think that some people might have wondered why I disappeared for months and then quit with 24 hours notice, refusing to tell people where I went, but probably not since I’d been out on mental health leave for over six months. I doubt anyone gave a shit by then.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        I was afraid to look this up, but thank you. I feel better now. Yes, I was driven out before I got kicked out.

    2. Jean (just Jean)*

      I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope that you are now in a better place professionally and personally.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        I am, thank you. I’m in a much happier job that actually supports and likes me and plays to my strengths!

    3. Total*

      This happened to me, and then to other people in the organisation. After one of my very early meetings with HR and management, the lawyer I had taken along told me that I needed an exit plan because although I had won this round, I now had a target on me and the organisation would be planning to get rid of me. A new manager who started expressed to me “I have no idea why management hates you so much” !!!!

  19. I'm great at doing stuff*

    Yeah, it can be very stabilizing when someone is seemingly fired out of nowhere. But there are always a reason, even if it doesn’t seem like a good one. Here are a few I have experienced:

    1. A director of a program was generally well liked, but the COO felt “changes were needed,” and fired her
    2. An excellent teacher was promoted to director and did not do well in that position and was suddenly fired
    3. A director that a lot of leadership didn’t like (although she was an amazing leader for our program) made a small mistake and was fired
    4. A person with developmental disabilities who was here as a part of a special program (ARC) stole $200 from a coworker (this one really sucked because of the circumstances, but the manager felt there needed to be consequences)
    5. And finally the one who really deserved to be fired in my mind had sex with one of our clients. I only found out about that one because another coworker told me like 5 years later.

    So yeah…there can be all sorts of things going on behind the scenes that you don’t know about. And also, it can just because of internal politics, like the first one.

    2. Kevin Sours*

      The problem is that in many cases it doesn’t seem like a good reason because it isn’t a good reason. And while companies obviously want to conceal it when it is happening, it’s also legitimately in the interest of employees when their peers get fired for no good reason.

      1. Xhausted*

        Having worked in HR and legal for years, I completely agree. Unwarranted and unlawful firings are, unfortunately, quite common.

  20. Bookworm*

    To the letter writer – at least the company TOLD you the others were fired or left. I worked for a place for more than a decade where we were NEVER told if someone left, regardless of reason. You would only start to ask after a week or so if they were on vacation.

    1. BurnOutCandidate*

      Pre-COVID, my company’s HR would send emails for voluntary departures (retirement, leaving for another job), but if there was no email then it wasn’t voluntary. It wasn’t an announced policy or anything, but the correllation was noticeable.

      2020 and after, there have been a few emails, but they’ve all been retirements by long-time employees. Otherwise, it’s crickets.

  21. Slow Gin Lizz*

    I worked at a small nonprofit where three people were fired within the first six months I was there. The last one was especially awkward as she’d just gotten back from vacation and I talked to her in the morning and she told me how her trip was. Later in the day, she stuck her head into my office and said, “Well, SGL, guess I won’t be seeing you again, I just got fired.” Oooooh, that was super awkward. So in my next one-on-one my supervisor mentioned it to me and I was like, yeah, that was awkward, and also makes me a little worried that a surprise like that could happen to me too. She reassured me that, no, I had no need to worry about my position, I was doing great. I was still chronically paranoid about losing my job, because that’s how I operate, I guess, but that conversation at least lowered my paranoia levels considerably.

    I offer my story here as an example of how of course you can ask your manager about people leaving suddenly and how that kind of thing looks to you, and you could even be specific about it too: “I thought that Jane was a stellar employee and was very surprised that she left suddenly. Is that something I need to worry might happen to me?” Now, if it’s lay offs, you probably won’t get an honest answer, but the question could result in your manager saying, “Oh, no, Jane left on her own accord” or going over how performance issues are addressed, or something like that.

    1. not nice, don't care*

      Gen X survivor of multiple economic downturns here. I have witnessed and experienced the faux reassurance from badmin after surprise firings/layoffs multiple times. Once it happened after a colleague was told no more layoffs were in the pipeline (after 25% of the company was let go one random day). Colleague (complete with at-home spouse and newborn baby) went ahead with non-refundable house purchasing activities, and was laid off the following week.

  22. LookAtMeI'mTheManagerNow*

    You can politely and calmly ask “May I ask why they aren’t here anymore” but it’s 50/50 you won’t get anywhere close to an answer.

    1. Troutwaxer*

      I’ve sometimes phrased it as “Is there anything I need to know about why Billy isn’t here anymore?”

  23. Orange You Glad*

    This is one of those things that you may never get the full story about, and you just have to deal with that.

    My company has never announced when someone is leaving – for any reason.
    If someone puts in their notice, we may hear about it if it’s relevant (usually as a heads up that an open job req will appear) and the person often sends out a goodbye email. We’ve definitely had people just disappear over the years – I don’t know if they resigned or were fired and will never know for sure.

    Good managers will usually get ahead of it by giving their employees a heads up if there is someone they work with regularly who will no longer be in that position. Not give them all the juicy details, but a heads up that they’re no longer here and reassure remaining employees that their job is not on the chopping block either.

    The actual reasons someone is fired will never be shared in writing. You may finally hear about it through the rumor mill and it’s fine to ask your manager about it if you have concerns, but you probably won’t get an official answer that so and so did x y and z to get fired.

  24. Optimus*

    I can think of three times when people I worked with were abruptly let go without most people outside of a very small/tight circle ever hearing why. In one case, the person had been using their company computer for a whole lot of “absolutely not” purposes was caught and allowed to resign. In another, the person had been acting in a threatening manner, but only displaying that behavior to an extremely (single-digits) small number of people, so when that person was walked to their car and followed off property, it looked to others like a massively unfair overreaction. In a third case, the person was very friendly and well-liked and seemed to have lots of work in various stages of production… but it turned out that the two or three people who worked the closest with them were able to see that it was a shell game and that nothing, in fact, was getting done, so when they compared stories, the whole thing fell apart.

    People can be well-liked and do good work and still have issues most people don’t see that a company can’t afford to keep around.

  25. cactus lady*

    I once worked somewhere where NO ONE got fired… until one person did. They had done something so egregious that it was covered by the local news several weeks later which was how we all found out what happened. (It was a combination of theft and fraud involving a federal agency.) However, until that news article came out, none of us had any idea, and we were all on edge because they had always been great to work with and we didn’t know what happened. We had no idea if any of us could be next. I understand why companies don’t share the circumstances around a firing, but I also think that just not saying anything sometimes causes more harm than good.

  26. Small Companies Can Be Weird*

    A few years ago, I worked for a small company of about 10 employees. The benefits were terrible, and the place had high turnover. I started job hunting after a year. When I accepted a new job, I gave the standard 2 weeks’ notice to my manager and kept things polite and said nothing negative about why I had wanted to leave. And the next 2 weeks were interesting. No announcement was made (at least that I was copied on). The executive director quit talking to me, and I was mostly shunned. My manager only interacted with me for what was necessary (wrapping up my work, etc.) where previously she had always been friendly. They posted my job before I left. On my last day, a new employee started in a different role (but same department as mine), and they kept her away from me. I wasn’t invited to a company meeting/lunch that day in the conference room. When the new employee and I happened to meet each other in the hall, she was surprised because the manager and executive director hadn’t told her I existed. Other employees who resigned were also shunned, so it wasn’t just me.

  27. Anna Mouse*

    There was recently a day when two senior-level people left and there was a really weird “do NOT post about this on social media” email, and we’ll never find out exactly what happened, but the rumor (because let me tell you, telling people not to gossip is not how to cool speculation) is that there was an inappropriate relationship between the two that the C-suite turned a blind eye to until they didn’t.

  28. namuh*

    I’ll add mine – when I was first in the workforce, a coworker and I started a side hustle. We asked the CEO for permission to freelance; he said sure. A month later, the HR lady found our freelance website and determined we were probably using company time and resources to freelance. She involved the board and the CEO refused to say he gave us permission. They didn’t have any evidence, so they blindsided us one morning and pressured us to resign (had the letter written for us and everything) or be fired. They issued a generic memo that said we resigned effective immediately and people honestly thought we abandoned them. We were too embarrassed to tell people we were basically fired.

    1. namuh*

      I missed saying – we were beloved at the organization and touched every department in some way. We also were well known in the community for the public facing aspects of our job. So no one had any reason to believe we had done something to be fired.

  29. Observer*

    LW, whatever you do, do NOT ask the current employee anything! It’s not fair to them or the departed employee.

    The fact the these employees were not newbies, and one of them had been around for 10 years, does not mean that there were no problems. We’ve seen more than enough stories about people who come into a new company and discover the “missing stair”. The person who has been a problem for ages, but everyone has worked around them because “that’s just hos Jan is”. Or a new person comes in and discovers some issue or other that’s been going on for a while that no one realized. Or someone has been problematic for a long time and their protector left. Or something relatively new has cropped up.

    1. Theon, Theon, it rhymes with neon*

      Been there, done that. I had to fire a well-liked missing stair of 8 years this year. Good guy, but couldn’t do the work. So he’d flounder until someone else solved the problem, flounder until someone else solved the problem… ad infinitum.

      Didn’t respond to coaching, just really couldn’t grasp what was expected of him. And we kept his PIP under wraps, so everyone was surprised to see him disappear suddenly.

      That was the most information I’ve ever given to someone about a coworker’s performance (after they were fired): on a strictly need-to-know basis, I sat down the person who worked most closely with him and said, “If you’re ever doing this much of someone else’s work, please say something,” and also, “The extent to which you’ve been overwhelmed with work is not what my boss and I want, and we’re going to hire someone who can carry some of the workload that you’ve been carrying.” All of which was to say, “We know you’re in danger of burning out, please don’t quit; we’re on a path to make things better.”

      His morale shot way up once he realized there was a light at the end of the tunnel of his overwork.

    2. Jamoche*

      Countless embezzling bookkeepers have been caught after years of getting away with it because a new person paid a bit more attention to their new job. Search for “fruitcake embezzling” for the latest really big one.

    3. Xhausted*

      Completely agree not to ask the departed colleague what happened. If they feel comfortable sharing their side of the story with you, they will.

      I’ll say this: just because you’re told someone was fired doesn’t mean it’s true, and just because someone has been fired doesn’t mean it was warranted or lawful.

      I’ve seen more than one toxic boss claim people were fired when they definitely weren’t, and I’m sorry to say that it’s a majority of non-management firings that are unwarranted at best and unlawful at worst. And I’m the one in HR and legal who has to clean up the mess, so if anyone knows the truth, unfortunately it’s me.

  30. Angie S.*

    The last time it happened to my team, the manager asked us in the weekly meeting about if we had questions about this person’s sudden departure. I think most of us saw the writing on the wall, so we only asked if there were risks of this person taking things that they were not supposed to be taking, and if our employer planned to backfill the post.

    I like the way my manager handled this.

  31. Chaos wrangler*

    At my last job, I gave a little over two weeks notice and then had crickets for a week. No announcement no meeting to wrap up projects until one day when I was called into the directors office and told that was my last day and they’d pay out my notice period. Then staff got an email (which I also got because they didn’t shut off my email and the script I had to forward forwarded it to me!) that said I was no longer there effective immediately which made it sound like I’d been fired.

  32. CubeFarmer*

    Many years ago my husband’s boss was removed with no warning, and he was shocked. Other managers were sent around to reassure his team that they were in no danger of losing their roles.

    My husband never really found out what the issue was, and he even met with this old boss a few months afterwards and the boss wouldn’t say. His hunch was that it was something political.

  33. Cinnamon Stick*

    One place I worked would call the entire team into the conference room/Zoom and advise that someone wasn’t working for the company anymore if they’d been fired. We never got the reasons and we weren’t given the opportunity to ask questions.

    Another place would fire any underperforming sales staff in January to make room for people who would ideally generate more revenue.

    At yet another, you only found out if you were plugged into the right rumor mill.

  34. Jamoche*

    When one particular coworker was fired – call him Mr BadUserName – our manager called us all in individually to tell us and started out with “this is not a sign that other people are at risk for losing their jobs”. Not that I needed the reassurance, as I’d had such a frustrating experience on a joint project with him that I’d told that manager I’d never work with him again – he did absolutely nothing, and I had to hit Google to figure out that what I’d been waiting two weeks for could be done in under an hour even if you had no experience doing it. And no, he had no other competing tasks.

    Years later, when none of us were working there, a group of us met up (minus that coworker) and the manager said that while Mr BadUserName had been on a PIP, what got him fired on the spot was gaslighting another coworker into thinking that *his* job was at risk. I still cannot figure out his motives – did he think that if our insecure but talented coworker left, we’d think “oh, we have a shortage, we must keep the person who can’t even finish the trivial tasks on his PIP”?

    1. Not-Skippy the Wonder Admin*

      This is the same guy who brought his elderly dog to a water therapy place (dog is guided in gentle swimming exercises by a human trainer, who is also in the water) and that day a previous patient had … uh … excreted, in the pool. So all sessions were canceled/rescheduled due to needing to drain, sanitize, and refill the pool. He bellowed that he didn’t care, he’d come all this way and his dog was getting her session!!11!1

      His dog did not get her session,

  35. CommanderBanana*

    I would love for Alison to write a column about why so many organizations handle notifying people about departures/firings so badly.

    My favorite one was my last org, where the dingbat HR ‘professional’ would send notification emails misspelling people’s names or getting their job titles wrong.

  36. Festively Dressed Earl*

    Just because people “usually” announce when they’re leaving for another job doesn’t mean they always do. Just because HR sends a “we wish them the best” email doesn’t mean the employee was canned. Unless OP worked in the HR department recently, there’s no way to know what the different circumstances surrounding an employee’s departure truly mean. Either way, it’s nosy to reach out to the former employee or their family to get the tea.

    OTOH, if the employees were at OP’s level or in the same department, it’s worth wondering if the company is downsizing, but it’s unlikely that HR or management are free to give straight answers about that question. All OP can do is make sure their manager has no concerns about their work, and update their resume if they’ve really got a bad feeling about this.

  37. Decidedly Me*

    Where I previously worked, there was definitely a difference in messaging between someone let go and someone leaving voluntarily. The few times it was voluntary, but the messaging seemed off were due to people resigning immediately (one due to a change in personal needs from a medical issue and the others for their own reasons).

    When people are let go, it was pretty common for people to message me (I was the manager) asking what happened. Many times it was super clear and what people really wanted to know was “could this happen to me?”. I would explain our documented performance processes and reassure them that I had no concerns with their performance (unless that wasn’t true, of course).

  38. I Have RBF*

    One of my predecessors in my current role was fired when they went to convert him from contact to perm. Turned out his resume was entirely fake, and they found out when doing the background check. The temp agency background check hadn’t found it. It explained to me why he didn’t seem to be able to do anything very well…

  39. Varthema*

    So my company did the opposite – big sturm and drang with a last-minute “company wide meeting”, at which it was announced that there would be layoffs… six of them. at a company of 150ish. and then through the grapevine found out that at least two were performance related and that the manager was asked to hold off on their terminations so that they could be done with the others. why freak everyone out like that?

  40. Raida*

    I would tell my manager in our 1:1’s about the morale/gossip/fear impact the two people leaving has caused, so they can decide how to handle it with our team/section.

    I would tell them I’m not a gossip and I appreciate the low-gossip work environment, and I am *so curious* that when I talk to [cousin of ex employee] I’m planning ahead to avoid asking them about it.

  41. JFC*

    All I keep reading here is “I assume.” There are probably things going on here that the LW is not privy to, and probably shouldn’t be — quiet layoffs, poor performance in ways the LW can’t see, policy violations, leaving for a direct competitor. It’s really dangerous to make assumptions about company operations when you truly have limited facts.

    Believe me, I understand why these situations are disconcerting, but it would be a bad look to start prying around. You may find out organically through office conversation or something management says, but I would definitely not pry.

    1. Kevin Sours*

      “It’s really dangerous to make assumptions about company operations when you truly have limited facts.”

      It’s also dangerous not to. How the company treats it’s employees isn’t something it’s wise to simply ignore. So you end up having to make judgements on whatever limited information is available to you.

  42. Xhausted*

    Good advice from Alison on how OP should say they were surprised by two sudden departures and get some feedback from their manager.

    But OP, it’s best not to make assumptions like this: for a start, you have no idea if these people were fired or not. And even if they were fired, it’s dangerous to automatically assume all firings are warranted; I’ve spent a long time in legal and HR, and unfortunately a lot of non-management firings are unwarranted. It’s a personal bug bear of mine.

    1. Observer*

      Sure, a lot of firings are unwarranted. And may are not!

      The fact that there is a mess to clean up doesn’t always mean that the firing was unwarranted. Sometimes a warranted firing is badly handled in some way, as well.

      I’m not saying that the firing was warranted, since neither of us has any information on which to base *any* assumptions on. I am saying that your assumption that an unwarranted firing is more likely than not is not really based in facts.

  43. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

    There’s a difference, obviously, between layoffs and firings.

    Usually when a layoff occurs, it happens in the morning and they get it all done by mid-day. Then later in the afternoon, each manager has a meeting and tells the remaining staff “there there now, the blue meanies are gone, all is well, relax, the other shoe isn’t going to drop. Feel good, feel better….”

    When a single employee is fired/terminated for cause, they USUALLY don’t tell others. Early in my career, there was one guy who was deemed as a security risk – we had a “read and initial” memo about one guy who HAD caused a problem. There was another incident that a co-worker described, at a bank he worked at – a man was doing his job well, but they found out he was an ex-convict, and had lied on his application about it. They fired him, and told all the employees in his group what had happened.

    1. The_artist_formerly_known_as_Anon-2*

      The “read and initial” was directed toward us as night shift employees … if he shows up, call the police.

  44. Inkognyto*

    I used to be in the kind of ‘need to know’ loop on this, and I was told if I told anyone or it was heard why was leaked, there would be discussions around it.

    I did the network account security for several companies. This is one thing where you just keep quiet and don’t talk about it. Basically I’d have HR phone me and tell me to disable an account at X time or immediately etc. Sometime they gave a vague reason sometimes a solid reason because of needing our help.
    I’ve heard, been involved in investigations, I’ve had to grant access to resources for this etc.

    There’s a few main ones
    1) Performance
    2) Business (removing a role etc)
    3) Personal/HR
    4) Compliance – they messed up something so bad for compliance that it’s more costly to keep them.

    Do your work and do it well is all you can do.

  45. Lizzo*

    At one of my former employers, a very beloved longtime employee was suddenly removed from her post, and her office was locked upon her departure. Turns out she had been embezzling money from the org in not so small amounts. In addition to the firing + having charges pressed, there were also consequences pertaining to some of her professional licenses

    Sometimes you just don’t know what people are capable of. :-/

  46. WFH4VR*

    I work at a tenuous higher ed organization, and people just….disappear. We’ve had massive cluster layoffs about every four or five years, and the people who are laid off are never, ever named again. It’s like they’re all Voldemort. You send a routine email, and all of a sudden there’s a bounceback “No longer here” with no explanation. Fortunately I am on very good terms with a couple of different departments, and my colleagues usually tell me personally that they’ve quit for better jobs. But the laid-off ones? Nada. Here today, gone the next, so sorry.

  47. ijustworkhere*

    We’ve had a few people leave for medical reasons and not want anyone to know until they were gone. That can look abrupt to someone from the outside.

  48. Greg*

    I was laid off from my job a few months ago. It came with no warning, and no real explanation beyond that it wasn’t performance-related and that the CEO was implementing a “strategic restructuring.” At this point, I’m fairly certain I know what happened (they brought in a couple very high-level new hires and then posted for an entry level role on my old team, which suggests the goal was to get rid of middle management).

    But my feelings aside, the way they handled it with my former colleagues was horrible. They received the same explanation I did, which is to say nothing. The CEO didn’t explain what the restructuring was; in fact, he didn’t say anything at all to them about my departure, leaving it to my interim boss. I told the colleagues I’m still friendly with that, if the roles had been reversed and one of them had been let go, I would have updated my resume that night and immediately started to look for new jobs (one of them, in fact, has already left for a new role). As an employee, if my organization signaled to me that even a high-performer can be exited with no explanation, I would never feel remotely safe in my job.

    All of which is to say that OP should absolutely raise the issue with their manager. (A good manager will proactively convene their team when something like this happens.) Not in the sense of “You must disclose everything about this person’s departure,” but more “Is there anything I need to know about why they left?” Maybe it signals future layoffs. Maybe there was something the departed employee was doing wrong that you would want to know about to avoid falling in the same traps. Or maybe they won’t tell you anything, which in itself might tell you all you need to know. But you should definitely ask.

  49. Not A Raccoon Keeper*

    My partner handed in a notice to his Bad Boss this spring (reason: BAD boss!), then we went on a pre-planned vacation. At an 8am meeting on the day we were back, Bad Boss told my partner that today was his last day. It was fairly inappropriate given the company and role, but Bad Boss was true to his name. Because of time zones, my partner only had 4 hours to manage all of the file clean up, getting personal contacts, and doing damage control for his sudden departure (good thing he knows how to activate a gossip chain!).

    If he hadn’t known the right people to tell, or hadn’t prioritized that, it would have looked like he was fired just like OP described. Luckily, my partner is a bit of a gossip himself, so he got the word out in time (and Bad Boss has since ‘quit’, which (because of my gossip king of a partner) we know wasn’t voluntary). So, so many reasons people ‘disappear’ without the usual fanfare.

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