coworker’s wife works remotely from our non-remote office

by Alison Green on October 15, 2024

A reader writes:

Weird thing just came up at my work that I’d be curious to hear you weigh in on. I work at a university that is 100% in-person, on-the-ground. My colleague Fergus has an office in an obscure little corner of the building. We rarely see him come in and out, and he tends to be around for odd hours.

Recently, a grad student who works at our front desk mentioned that she sees Fergus’ wife Jane coming to work with him quite often. This was news to me — Fergus’ wife has a 100% remote job that we thought she was doing from home. What I’ve gathered is that Jane seems to be coming to work with Fergus to do her work in his office, and it’s regular enough that our grad students know who she is.

What are your thoughts on this? Our school requires us to be 100% in-person because we work with confidential student records and so that students can stop by to see us at any time, and Jane does work related to confidential medical data, so it seems like it’s inherently a problem if they’re working in the same room. At the same time, that’s a pretty common setup for couples where both partners work remotely. But it also seems … just kind of odd, especially because he hasn’t mentioned this to anyone and almost seems to be sneaking her in. Like, it would make sense if they only had one car and they were coming into the city together because she had an in-town appointment, but they both have their own separate vehicles.

What do you think?

Yes, this is weird and it’s almost certainly a problem.

In many jobs, it wouldn’t be a big deal if it happened occasionally — like for an afternoon a couple times a year when she needed to do something nearby, or for one day because, I don’t know, there was construction happening in their house. But it shouldn’t be happening regularly, for the same reasons that any other random person shouldn’t be regularly working from your office.

Your employer hasn’t agreed to provide office space and other resources to Jane, there are confidentiality issues, it’s likely to pose at least some distraction to Fergus, people stopping by to talk to him may be deterred by her presence, there’s potential legal liability to your employer if something happens to Jane while she’s there … the list of problems goes on and on.

Personally, I’d mention it casually to your boss and see if they know about it.

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{ 297 comments }

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  1. Chairman of the Bored*

    IMO it’s a bit weird and may well be causing a problem for *somebody*.

    However, that somebody sure isn’t me so I’m not going to bring it up to the bosses and likely mess up whatever mutually-agreeable arrangement Fergus’s family has worked out for themselves.

    1. HonorBox*

      This only works if the arrangement is mutually-agreeable between the university and Fergus/Jane. If the OP mentions something to their boss and boss says, “yes we’re aware and good with it” then there’s no need to think about it again. But if the arrangement is mutually-agreeable only to Fergus and Jane and the university is not aware, then there are all kinds of potential problems.

      1. JSPA*

        Depends whether the insurance is fine with random people visiting faculty members (even repeatedly); given how universities work, the answer may well be, “no problem.”

        And the idea that two people can’t be in the same office while maintaining data privacy really flies in the face of reality.

        While in most workplaces, this would obviously be a problem, in this particular workplace, I’d be much more likely to assume that it isn’t.

        I’ve been the trailing spouse and I’ve had the trailing spouse, And these sorts of setups are often ok’d at the level of the department head or the department secretary (if the “trailer” has a key), or merely by stating, “Jane will be coming in with me on days when [description of reasonable situation].”

        Also, the idea that someone who has enough focus to make professor, in this day and age, is going to be distracted by the presence of their spouse, is a misunderstanding of the academic mindset.

        1. daffodil*

          is Fergus faculty, or staff who work with student data? I assume this is more extensive than the kinds of grades and classwork info most faculty deal with, because plenty of us handle that remotely all the time.

          1. JSPA*

            I had assumed that if fergus set his own hours and came in weird hours and nobody knows when he comes and goes, that Fergus was faculty or faculty-like, but IT or grading management could also be the case? I still think the co worker seems a little over-invested. And if both parties are trained in handling of private records, AND the spouse’s job already allows them to work remotely, and Fergus’s space is already private enough for Fergus’ private work?

            I’d tend to assume this is a case of, “construction or internet down at house; wife requires comparable level of privacy to our home or the university so can’t work from coffeeshop or coworking space; there is no in-person office for wife, or wife is high-risk (still a thing!) and sharing air with spouse (and masking or stepping out for students) is safer than any other option.

            Absent any actual as opposed to hypothetical problem, I don’t see that the LW has to make it their business.

        2. Yadah*

          The difference here is that you’re speaking as if this is happening only in a “reasonable situation” but it sounds much more frequent than that.
          LW also mentions that they have to work in person so students can stop by – if someone else is in his office then that’s going to impede that function of his role.

          I understand your respect for ‘the academic mindset’ but I know plenty of people who are professors or who have their PhDs that genuinely would get distracted if their spouse was in the office – many have worked hard to get where they are, but they’re still just people.
          And even then, we have no idea if Fergus is a professor, he could work in admissions or or residence or another form of student services that deals with personal information.

        3. not nice, don't care*

          Given how universities work it could be anything. Professors are definitely prone to the same fuckery as any other employee. Seen it first hand for decades. Folks with acknowledged spousal accommodations generally aren’t sneaky about it.

        4. MassMatt*

          “the idea that two people can’t be in the same office while maintaining data privacy really flies in the face of reality”.

          They might be maintaining data privacy, but this spouse who is not employed at the university has not agreed to any procedures or restrictions on confidential data, nor is there any procedure in place to supervise her compliance or discipline her for failure to adhere.

          This is in addition to other potential liability. What if she is injured at her husband’s office? As unlikely as it might seem, as a non-employee she would probably not be covered by worker’s comp and the school could be liable for damages. What if she injures someone else?

          Chairman of the Bored above suggests MYOB as it’s not your problem. OK, but it could be a potentially big problem for someone, and the administration may well get upset to hear this was widely known yet no one mentioned anything.

          1. Despachito*

            Let them be upset then. What will they do, fire the entire department? And how will they know that OP in particular knew and did not tell?

            I am with the Chairman of the Bored- not OP’s circus, not her monkeys.

            There does not seem to be any health/injury risk, it does not influence OP’s work, and if it means liability for OP’s employer and/or Fergus’s wife, let them sort it out by themselves.

          2. Inkognyto*

            I agree, on top of that the company she works for probably is expecting the same thing for their employee and not having their company information overheard and/or seen by students.

            Working ‘remote’ usually requires signing something if the type of data you are dealing with is sensitive. Mine requires an office or space where I can work without distractions. If things are overheard or seen people, it can be reported to HR.
            We don’t have ‘in’ office. If it happens a few times, they fire you for not following the remote policy that YOU sign and the security policy (yearly) that agrees to how you handle and work.

            People think ‘work remote’ to work anywhere, and that’s often not the case.

      2. Chauncy Gardener*

        Agree!
        Such as student confidentiality, worker’s comp, the university’s own liability insurance, just to name a few off the top of my head.

      3. goddessoftransitory*

        This is the crux, I think. Universities and colleges have all sorts of odd setups as to what’s allowed–for instance, if Fergus is effectively sub leasing his office space to his wife, that could get the school into trouble tax-wise if they have an arrangement with the government forbidding that.

    2. CLC*

      Yeah I agree. It’s odd and might cause a problem but it doesn’t necessarily seem clearly unethical to me so I’d stay out of it. Also I don’t work I academia but I’ve been college and grad school, and I feel like this would be less weird at a university than in a lot of other settings—people are always going in and out of university buildings, and they’re not all students or employees who necessarily need to be in that building at that time. The OP doesn’t say how long it’s been going on and it doesn’t seem like they know for sure there isn’t some kind of special arrangement.

      1. hello*

        Yes, but those other people who aren’t students or staff aren’t spending time in a room where they could potentially have access to confidential information. That’s one of the issues both the LW and Alison spelled out.

      2. Observer*

        It’s odd and might cause a problem but it doesn’t necessarily seem clearly unethical to me so I’d stay out of it.

        The fact that staff are handling confidential student information means that it most certainly does pose an ethical, but also potentially legal problem.

        1. Ellie*

          I work from home occasionally and so does my husband. He works in the financial industry and I work in defence. Of course I’m not allowed to bring a lot of information home with me, but there’s enough on my laptop and his to cause significant privacy and legal issues, possibly insider trading, if we happened to glance at each other’s screens and act on what we saw there.

          I’m not saying its ideal, but it is the reality of modern life that a spouse might see something they shouldn’t, and should already be aware that they’re bound by the same confidentiality over the information as their spouse is. I don’t think sharing an office makes that necessarily more or less likely. When I was vetted, they wanted a lot of information on the people I lived with too, for obvious reasons.

          Honestly, if this was an office job I’d tell my boss. But given its a university, I’d stay out of it. The arrangement works for them, and universities are somewhat public spaces.

          1. Observer*

            I’m not saying its ideal, but it is the reality of modern life that a spouse might see something they shouldn’t, and should already be aware that they’re bound by the same confidentiality over the information as their spouse is.

            That is both not reality, nor legality *unless* both spouses affirmatively sign on.

            And it’s one of the reasons why some jobs are not permitted to be outside of the office and / or the employer requires the user to prove that they have a way to secure their information that is acceptable.

            And in this case, the employer actually DOES have a policy around this – they require people to work in the office because of this issue. Which Fergus is just apparently ignoring.

            The arrangement works for them, and universities are somewhat public spaces.

            I may work for them, but not for the students whose privacy they are compromising. Because while universities *in general* are somewhat public spaces, the offices are most definitely *not* public spaces.

          2. sara*

            Agreed here. Universities are just weirder than other working environments, and it doesn’t seem worth it to burn capital on this.

      4. commensally*

        Yeah, this. It depends on what exactly Fergus’s job is and what the building is used for, but there’s parts of a university where any friends, relatives, or community members regularly sitting down at a vacant table to quietly work would, at most, be a bit odd. And staff members emerging out of their offices to work in those spaces might actually be encouraged.

        But if this is an area where non-employees wouldn’t normally be allowed, and work that needs to be kept to secure areas, it’s a problem.

      5. not nice, don't care*

        Most, if not all, publicly funded universities don’t allow non-university related money-making to be done using university resources.

    3. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Ehhhhhhh, but the some of the people this is affecting are students, who may not realize they can and should speak up. “We work with confidential student records and so that students can stop by to see us at any time” = quite likely, sometimes a student needs to talk to Fergus about something sensitive. Honestly, even if it’s just asking for an extension on an assignment, you don’t necessarily want to do that in front of Some Lady.

      Even if they have the perfect system of winks and nods worked out so Fergus magically knows as soon as a student walks into the room that that student needs privacy, and can perfectly communicate that to Jane and get her to leave – the problem exists even before the student walks in, because Jane is known to be in Fergus’s office at all times. It adds friction, and as Alison likes to say, it’s going to have a chilling effect on what students are comfortable bringing to Fergus in the first place.

      Everyone involved in this, and especially the people most likely to be affected by this, are not on equal footing. Therefore, OP should speak up.

      1. JSPA*

        This would be a stronger argument if every professor and lecturer had their own office. (They don’t.)

        1. But what to call me?*

          But the other people in that office are usually other professors/lecturers and are therefore more likely to fit in the “people I talk about school stuff with” category in students’ minds. It would be better for every professor and lecturer to have their own office for confidential conversations with students, but having this random non-university-affiliated person in the room seems likely to make it much weirder for them than just having some other professors around doing professor things. It definitely would have felt strange to me to have a professor’s wife in the room when I was a student, though I had no problem talking to professors in cubicles while all the professors in the other cubicles politely pretended no one could hear each other.

          1. Decagon*

            Based on my experience sharing a university office, there’s a high likelihood that students would just assume Fergus’s wife is another university-affiliated person rather than someone who didn’t work at the university.

        2. works in higher ed; tired*

          Ding ding.

          And US universities only care about making enough money to stay afloat since we decided funding higher education was BAD because liberals blah blah. Student data privacy comes in a little ahead of actual learning, but not topmost concern.

      3. Spero*

        This is very true…when I was a young student, if someone was in the office I would have assumed they were a staff member and would have shared details thinking everyone there was covered as office staff. I would have been mortified if some of the information my uni had about me was shared outside of their staff.

        1. the cat's pajamas*

          I’m also concerned that Jane’s job involves medical records, universities might not have secure enough internet protections for that unless they have a medical school, but it still opens up tons of liability issues.

          1. March*

            I can’t vouch for all universities, obv, but I do know that the one I work at (in Europe) takes the EU privacy laws EXTREMELY seriously and has had all sorts of online security systems set up to protect any data anyone works with.

          2. Consonance*

            Yeah, clinics/hospitals have some pretty intense security. I wouldn’t worry too much about the University network if she’s allowed to work from her home, but I do worry that medical and medical-adjacent employers are likely to be some of the most rigid about remote work. They’re likely to have stipulations about working in a room with a locking door, not overheard or seen by others, etc. Working essentially in public is unlikely to fly with her own employer, although I guess that’s out-of-scope when it comes to the University’s own concerns.

          3. Azure Jane Lunatic*

            Jane likely has some kind of VPN access, so she is likely not fully relying on the protections of the school internet.

            I know a little bit about the practicalities of this — one of my partners has a job that touches medical records in the USA. They’re not usually working directly with medical records, they’re working on software that certain kinds of medical establishments use, but for troubleshooting specific customers’ problems, they sometimes have to see the problem in the wild.

            They don’t have to have their own dedicated internet connection; they do have a dedicated work laptop and a VPN situation. They’re required to have certain types of physical security precautions, including curtains or a privacy filter over any window that might allow a glimpse of the screen. They slam the lid of the laptop down when I walk behind them to get to the bathroom. (We’re not usually in the same room while they’re working, but sometimes it happens.) They know me and trust me and are aware that I wouldn’t do anything with that information — but they take the security requirements seriously.

            Unless the office is organized so Jane can have a wall behind her and/or see and react to any possible passerby before they’d be able to see anything, I’d be concerned.

      4. Lady Danbury*

        This. Students may be put off from even entering if they see someone else in the office. They may assume that Fergus is busy and they’ll be interrupting or may just be reluctant to share in front of another person. Either way, Jane’s presence can have a detrimental effect on the students that Fergus is supposed to be serving. This wouldn’t be a nobody’s getting hurt situation for me.

        1. Panhandlerann*

          I’d imagine it would be much more likely that students would assume the other person working in the office was also a university employee and would wrongly think it was just fine to say whatever they wished in front of that other person. (Sharing of offices isn’t uncommon in academia, but the usual thing is for two university employees to do the sharing, not some outside person.)

    4. Harper*

      Agreed. I’ve reached a point in my life where I kinda cheer for the people who aren’t afraid to test the boundaries. If it works for them and isn’t directly affecting me, I’ll leave it alone and hope karma means I’ll be left alone someday when I need flexibility.

      1. Observer*

        I’ve reached a point in my life where I kinda cheer for the people who aren’t afraid to test the boundaries.

        Even when what is being done poses a real problem for others – who either don’t know and / or can’t protest what is being done to them?

        1. JSPA*

          There’s “being an ally” and there’s “handwringing over hypotheticals.” There’s some overlap in the venn diagram, but not knowing

          a. the nature of the job
          b. how they are handling it (does she wear earphones? already step out “to get coffee” every time a student passes?)
          c. how private the offices are for others in an equivalent level of security

          and given the LW has no clue how they are handling this, and not even any direct knowledge of how long and how consistently this has been going on…

          It’s quite impossible for any of us to to know whether our worries constitute “standing up for actual students” or “concern trolling for hypothetical students who don’t exist IRL.”

          If it’s someone who works on accommodations, mental health support and/or leaves-of-absence, I’d be more worried than if it’s transcripts or IT support. (Yes, it’s all “private,” but it’s not all equally loaded.)

          1. Observer*

            It’s quite impossible for any of us to to know whether our worries constitute “standing up for actual students” or “concern trolling for hypothetical students who don’t exist IRL.”

            We know enough to know that it’s not the latter.

            1. Staff are required to work in the office because they work with confidential student records. That’s not “fan fic”.

            2. She’s spending her day working in an office that was not designed for two people to keep their stuff private from each other.

            Does that mean that there *will* be breach? No. But the idea that there is no real likelihood of her seeing or hearing anything confidential is simply not tenable. If you don’t want someone to see something, you don’t work with that thing when that person is in the room with you.

            If it’s someone who works on accommodations, mental health support and/or leaves-of-absence, I’d be more worried than if it’s transcripts

            You don’t get to make that decision for others. There is a reason why transcripts are protected data. You don’t need to get into all sorts of fanfic to see why, if you stop to think about it (including stuff that’s hit the news.)

      2. carrot cake*

        “I’ve reached a point in my life where I [kind of] cheer for the people who aren’t afraid to test the boundaries.”

        —

        I mean, good for you, I guess, but this situation isn’t that.

      3. Godess*

        Honestly, agreed! No need to be a narc, life is hard enough and these lovebirds wanna spend time together. If it’s an issue it can raise itself.

    6. Luna*

      It seems like a mind your own business issue to me. How is it affecting you OP? And if it’s well known by lower level employees the upper levels probably know about it too. Unless I’m a compliance officer I’d stay out of it.

    7. Princess Sparklepony*

      Seems like Fergus’ wife should be paying rent to the university if she is going to work in their facility.

  2. HugeTractsofLand*

    Honestly someone is going to bring it up at some point, so you might as well mention it now; I doubt anyone will trace it back to you. There’s a small chance that she’s working with him while say, house renovations are completed, but I wouldn’t want this to become standard practice in my workplace in case others think it’s OK to bring their more unruly family members.

    1. Susan*

      For something that isn’t causing me any problems, and isn’t in my purview, worrying about whether anyone will trace it back to me is a red flag that says “don’t do it”.

      1. Lana Kane*

        Agreed. If there’s no glaring issue and it’s not impacting me, I’d prefer to pretend I didn’t notice and not get involved in other people’s issues. And if the boss knew already and sanctioned it, you’re running the risk of looking like a meddler. So nope, I wouldn’t say anything.

        And it could be traced back to OP if the boss then goes to Fergus and says something that outs OP as the informant.

      2. Rex Libris*

        This. There are so many questions here that basically amount to “A coworker is doing something that totally doesn’t affect me, but could theoretically affect someone, somewhere, at some point… ” The answer, for my part anyway, is almost always “Leave it alone.”

        1. Observer*

          “A coworker is doing something that totally doesn’t affect me, but could theoretically affect someone, somewhere, at some point… ”

          Sure, except that the “affect” is highly likely and potentially serious.

          And one that the organization has a legal obligation to prevent.

          1. Yadah*

            I’m genuinely surprised by how little regard people have for the students in this scenario. Fergus is dealing with information that’s confidential enough that the school thinks remote work isn’t appropriate and he needs to be accessible to students in that time.
            It’s just kind of disrespectful to them imo

            1. LunaLena*

              Yeah, I was imagining that Fergus works in the Bursar’s Office or something similar where student info is kept tightly under wraps and people often need to come in to do things in person. I’m sure most people would not be thrilled to learn that they thought they were discussing personal finance issue with university staff only, but actually that person sitting within earshot was a random spouse.

        2. the cat's pajamas*

          I agree in general, but this case involves private data that is regulated and is potentially harming the data subjects and violating regulations about how that data is stored and shared. It’s a huge risk for their organizations and possibly their employment.

  3. DinoGirl*

    If this is a public university it’s also “theft of state resources,” yet another on a long list of problems from this arrangement. Someone should really report it to HR.

    1. Slinky*

      Yep. I work for a state university and our HR is very firm that we can’t bring non-employees into secure areas. I would think that an office where confidential files are kept would qualify.

      1. Sales SVP*

        Yeah but if that the case here, OP would know that, and also know what their responsibilities are.

    2. Justme, The OG*

      Agree. I had to get permission to have my kid in my office for a few hours one week when she was doing a camp elsewhere on campus.

    3. Ally McBeal*

      What resources is Jane stealing? The records security issue is much more significant than the incremental pennies the state would spend on water and wifi for one office stowaway.

      2. JSPA*

        Maybe internet, or wear-and-tear on a chair, but not necessarily even that.

        The whole office is already in use by Fergus. So it’s not like she’s using more than a few cents of electricity a day, and some oxygen molecules.

        1. Curious*

          Either the university has a Limited Personal Use policy, in which case Jane’s incremental use of internet may fall within that, or they don’t, in which case OP’s use of internet at work for AAM would be a theft of resources.

          The privacy issue and dissuading students from talking to Fergus are separate — and potentially troubling — matters.

      4. Guacamole Bob*

        Yes – if it’s a state institution they could get snippy about it, but large universities generally have open wifi of some sort and have all sorts of people coming and going for different reasons that use it.

        1. academic librarian*

          This is false. I’ve worked at many public universities, and they never provide wifi to the general public. Either Jane is using her own hotspot (okay) or Fergus is providing her his campus credentials (very bad).

              2. amoeba*

                Eh, if she’s working with sensitive data, I’m sure she has a VPN that takes care of that. We have one and we’re far from *that* sensitive – but this enables us to use basically any open network without concern (work on the train, use our mobiles as hotspots, etc.)

                Not that I don’t see problems with this situation, but the security of the WiFi isn’t one of them!

              3. Ally McBeal*

                If she’s bringing sensitive/confidential physical work material into an office that isn’t hers and isn’t secure, I doubt a secure wifi connection is one of her concerns.

            2. doreen*

              The university I attended many years ago may or may not have guest wifi – but unless you can connect from the street it won’t be available to the general public. Because you can no longer get on campus/into a building without an ID card, or getting a visitor ID (which requires an appointment or being accompanied by a faculty member). Which is actually my question about the situation in the OP – is this university open so that anyone can walk in or is is Fergus getting Jane past security whenever she’s there?

              1. Gloaming*

                Seriously, where did you go to school? Was it a military school or something? Because I’m currently in academia, and every campus I’ve ever been to had open guest WiFi and didn’t lock their buildings during the day. That’s *extremely* weird.

                1. doreen*

                  City University of New York in NYC – I don’t think they lock the buildings during the day but apparently at some time between when I graduated in 1986 they got tired of people who just walking onto the campus and/or into the buildings. I’m not so sure what’s weird about a university wanting to exclude people who don’t have a reason to be on campus ( or in buildings as some of the individual colleges don’t really have a campus) .

              2. Freya*

                My most recent university in Australia not only has unlocked facilities (the actual classrooms may be locked unless they’re in use, and people’s offices are similarly locked, but none of the libraries are and nothing outside ever is) but gym memberships are open to the general public and about the same cost as the cheapest off-campus gym (cheaper if you prefer to use the facilities in the morning, when uni students tend not to). The grounds and facilities like the bar and the music hall and theatres are regularly used for concerts and performances where tickets are available to the public (I went to one there earlier this year, where the 1335 seat venue was booked out every night the artist was playing). All of which is to say: there’s always non-uni people on campus, and the guest wi-fi is available throughout.

          3. Annika Hansen*

            I work at a public university. Our WiFi has the ability for guests to connect. And if Jane’s job is also at a university, she may be able to connect via Eduroam. I have used my Eduroam credentials to connect at many other universities.

          5. AndyG*

            I work at a Canadian University and we provide wifi to the general public. It has some use-case limitations, but anyone can sign up with their email address to use it.

            In addition, we are part of the eduroam network which allows people to access wifi using their credentials from their home institution, which includes universities and other places that do research in more than 60 different countries. This includes at least some public colleges and hospitals in the US.

            I’m not saying OPs institution does. Just that there are more possibilities than you have experienced.

            1. Lexi Vipond*

              I once found myself automatically connected to eduroam while sitting in the departure lounge at Geneva airport. I don’t really know the limits for who uses it, but it’s definitely more than just staff in university campuses.

          6. Rage*

            The University I’ve been attending for my Masters has a “secure” wifi with password and 2FA, which is for students, faculty, and staff. They also have an “open” unsecure wifi, with no password, which anybody can access if you are in a campus building.

          8. LunaLena*

            The public university I work at has guest wi-fi that anyone can access as well. It’s sort of similar to airport wi-fi, you just have to click the button to agree to their terms of use and you’re in.

          9. Sales SVP*

            Nah, I was just at a well known business school for an event. Free public WiFi – popped right up.

      5. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

        Here it’d be an “improper benefit” issue – Jane has access to resources (free, albeit shared, office space) that she is using for personal gain (outside employment) that she only has access to because she is a relative of a government employee and that would not be available to a general member of the public (unless they are also welcome to join in “everyone works in Fergus’s office now” time, such as if this were all happening in a part of a public library where it was ok to set up camp and work all day).

      6. not nice, don't care*

        Yeah, given how hard my university prez is pinching pennies (aka laying people off) I would not be so cavalier in tolerating misuse.

    4. Cat Tree*

      I wonder what wifi she is using. At my company only registered guests can use the guest wifi, and only company-owned devices can use the regular wifi. Since it’s a university, is there free unrestricted wifi for students? It seems to at least go against the spirit for a non-student to routinely use it although I guess it doesn’t have a big effect.

      2. amoeba*

        I mean, if there’s no WiFi, she might also use her phone as a hotspot – for me, for instance, this wouldn’t be an issue, we have unlimited data plans available as standard, so as long as there’s phone reception, I have internet.

  4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    I can see a case where Jane & Fergus don’t have great internet at home – especially an IP address that changes all the time – and Jane’s employer requires a stable white-listed IP addresses. So she comes in to take advantage of the university internet connection instead of paying for a better connection at home.

    Which of course raises the question of why IT security at Jane’s employer hasn’t done a lookup and figured out where she is…

      1. amoeba*

        Yeah, or just a publicly available space like the university library (which would have been zero problem at my old uni! It was open to the general public and had WiFi and desks you could use. Also some private rooms you could book, but those might have been only available for students, not sure.)

    2. Poppy of Dimwood Forest*

      Then Jane needs to use the library rather than Fergus’ office. Her convenience doesn’t negate the confidentiality of students or her employer’s records.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        One would think Jane’s employer would have thoughts about her working at a university office, library, or from the neighbor’s pool when she deals with sensitive info too!

    3. Computer-Man*

      “Which of course raises the question of why IT security at Jane’s employer hasn’t done a lookup and figured out where she is…”

      That’s not really a concern at all, and not really our (IT) problem so much as a management problem. As long as she’s connecting securely (VPN), otherwise following policies, and not exfiltrating data, she could be in a shack on Everest for all we (generally) know or care.***

      What’s more of a concern is for IT security at her *husband’s* employer. Are they aware? Is she on the staff network or a public one? If she’s using a public access network or her own hotspot, it’s not really anyone’s IT problem at the end of the day.

      *** Of course, generally it is frowned upon to connect from questionable locations and countries, but we’re talking places like Russia or China, not some university downtown.

  5. Momma Bear*

    Could Jane instead reserve a study room at the library (or could he reserve the space for her)? The confidentiality of her work is her problem but the confidentiality of student data and meetings is OP’s/the school’s problem. I’d say something, especially if the reasoning behind people working in the office is confidentiality.

    1. Ashley*

      Yes, as a former university administrator this is a solution that I’d expect.

      It’s easy enough to get a university library card at a public institution to gain access to wifi and the ability to reserve a study room as a member of the public, and even more so for a spouse.

      1. academic librarian*

        No, it’s really not. Even when alumni or members of the public can pay for a library card to check out print books, they can almost never use that for free wifi, and definitely not study rooms (which are in high demand by students).

        I know you say you’re a former academic administrator, but speaking as a librarian we have adminstrators constantly promising library resources to various outside parties we can’t deliver because the students are actively using them

        1. Ivkra*

          Two out of the three (public) universities I’ve spent time around have had publicly accessible wifi – not just to community members with partial-access cards, but to the general public.

        2. also academic librarian*

          I’m at a public university and we most certainly have guest wifi that anyone with an email address can use; you don’t even need a library card to use it. Indeed, because this is a public institution, anyone can come use the library (and we want them to!). If you are a member of the public and have purchased a library card, you have access to the library’s collections as well as the physical resources, including room reservation. It’s not likely you’ll be ABLE to reserve a room, as they’re in high demand by students, but you’re technically able. Please stop speaking as if your work experience reflects every academic institution, as it clearly does not.

        3. not nice, don't care*

          And then they lay off the folks who actually operate the library, causing even more bottlenecks with services.

        4. Starbuck*

          This seems silly to debate when it doesn’t matter to LW – she’s not going to be responsible for trying to find or suggest an alternative to Jane’s workspace, that’s a Jane problem.

        5. SimonTheGreyWarden*

          Eh, the community college near me allows checkout of print materials using the public library card (not even a school-specific one) and also to reserve a quiet room as long as it isn’t in use. Can’t check out laptops or other multimedia resources is my understanding, that’s the limitation. Also, free wifi regardless. It differs from school to school.

    2. Slinky*

      This is a better solution than her sitting in his office, but it’s still not ideal. Our study rooms are in high demand. If I were a student and couldn’t get a study room because an employee’s wife was using it for 40 hours a week for her remote job, I would be unhappy.

      1. MCL*

        I was just gonna say… the university’s library’s resources (study rooms, in this case) are for university students, faculty, and staff. Not some person who none of those things, especially if she’s there on the regular. She can go to the public library or figure out a co-working space. The university library should rightly tell her no.

        1. Guacamole Bob*

          This really varies. I lived in grad student housing when my spouse was in grad school, but was not student, faculty, or staff. A number of the campus libraries were open to the public and I worked there now and then, though I didn’t reserve study rooms and agree that doing so regularly would be inappropriate. During finals they made some of the libraries and study spaces student-only.

          Later, when I was in grad school across the country at a different institution the libraries and campus study spaces were mostly open to the public as well, though in some cases you needed to swipe a badge after a certain hour at night or on weekends.

        2. Decima Dewey*

          The public library wouldn’t be any happier with Jane using their public computers and/or wifi all day than the university or Jane’s employer would be.

            1. Coelura*

              Public wifi doesnt’ have sufficient security guards for a company working with confidential data. My employers would fire me over it.

              1. Guacamole Bob*

                But the library wouldn’t care. Often there are time limits on the public computers and study rooms to ensure more even access, but I’ve never encountered a time limit on library wifi.

              2. Jj*

                That I understand but I was wondering why would the public library care about people using their resources to work remotely?

                1. Decima Dewey*

                  I was posting about people using the public computers. Anyone can use the wifi, but privacy is hard to come by.

                2. allathian*

                  Decima Dewey, one of the strictest rules my employer has is that we aren’t allowed to do any work on personal devices. Public WiFi is okay because we have to use the VPN to access company systems. But even so, there are some tasks I wouldn’t be allowed to work on outside the office or my home.

          2. Bumblebee*

            That is literally the point of the public library. Still not a good solution for Jane, though, if she needs privacy.

              1. Le Sigh*

                Agree. I’m paying taxes so that community members, regardless of income or housing, have access to the internet, books, and other resources. And I’ve rarely seen a library where the computers aren’t in high demand, with time limits and assigned turns. Jane’s company can foot the bill for better wifi if that’s the issue.

                1. Azure Jane Lunatic*

                  I would be extremely, extremely surprised if Jane didn’t have her own laptop, with a VPN (Virtual Private Network: an encrypted connection that does not depend on the security of the network it is traveling over) as a condition of working remotely. So she would not be taking up a library computer, she would be taking a seat and table space, presumably with wifi, and possibly electricity as well.

            2. Decima Dewey*

              Yes, this is the point of the public library. We do what we can with limited resources. Patrons in my system have one turn per branch per day. Sometimes resources are more limited than usual: right now my branch has three public computers out of commission.

              And our wifi isn’t secure. Before Philadelphia took work from home from city workers, we were warned not to access patron records through public wifi–or own or a coffee shop’s.

        3. Santiago*

          Public universities often have the understanding that they exist for the public at large as a part of the mission. People in my town frequently use university library resources.

    3. But Of Course*

      Why should Jane, who is not a teacher, student, or member of administration, be allowed to take away a study room from actual members of the campus community? I’ve never seen a study room setup that was so lavish that everyone got study rooms when they needed/wanted them.

      1. Le Sigh*

        Granted, every campus is different, but it was so hard to find a study room when I was in school. I would be pretty pissed to find out someone who wasn’t a student/staff/faculty of some kind was squatting in one for 40 hours a week for a FT off-campus job.

  6. Jezebella*

    FERPA requires absolute security regarding student records. Having a non-employee in the office is absolutely a problem. If Fergus needs to meet with students, even more so. This would be like having a random nurse’s wife working at a medical office, despite HIPAA.

    If she needs better internet or there’s work happening at home, she can go to the university library.

  7. Bilateralrope*

    Hearing that Jane works with confidential medical data makes me think that her employer needs to know. They would know the legalities of Jane doing her work at the university better than anyone at the university.

    1. soontoberetired*

      Right. I work with confidential medical data from time to time and that cannot be exposed to anyone who has no right to see it. We have locks on the floor where the work is done so you can’t get in without a pass.

    2. DramaQ*

      Jane should not be in Fergus’ office because of HIPAA there is no way to properly secure her computer. Any student could come in to talk to Fergus and see what is on her screen. There is also always the chance her laptop could end up stolen, we had a string of office laptop thefts where I worked one year (likely either a student or cleaning staff since whoever it was knew when professors wouldn’t be in their offices).

      Fergus works with student information which is FERPA protected. There is no way to fully ensure Jane isn’t seeing student data since she is working right there in his office where he is also working. Where is she going when he has meetings with students?

      If it’s truly a “oh Jane just doesn’t have the ideal set up” or “Well they only have one car so it makes sense she comes with him” situation why can’t she go work in the student lounge? The computer lab? The library?

      It’s a HUGE no no on multiple levels. If their internet sucks, they only have one car, whatever reason we can think of to excuse it the fact of the matter is both their jobs are handling confidential data.

      Both FERGUS and HIPAA have very strict rules regarding where you can and cannot work due to security not only of data but also the equipment/papers you are storing the information on/in.

      If Jane’s set up is not ideal at home the solution is not to bring her to Fergus’ office. She needs to talk to her employer about getting better internet or she should be going into work at her own secure office.

      Both of them are being careless and it could come back to bite them bigly if a student or a patient gets wind of the set up and decides to complain. All the “valid” reasons in the world aren’t going to matter one whit to their employers in that instance.

      1. HonorBox*

        Your home setup point is spot on. I can WFH some, and if my internet is out or spotty one of those days, I’d never think that going to my wife’s office is a better option than just going to my office.

        It is possible that Jane doesn’t have an office. I have friends who WFH and deal with inbound calls about retirement accounts, and there’s no actual office for them to go into. BUT, if those friends had a time when their internet was out for some reason, you bet your bippy that the company would find a desk for them to do their work versus having them elsewhere.

        1. Random Bystander*

          Or, as recently happened to me–I work from home with medical business records (info I access is all HIPAA protected). My employer has rules about the location of my work and that I have a hard-wired (no wi-fi allowed) connection to a high speed internet. A couple weeks ago, my internet went out (call to the provider said that the company was aware of the issue and gave me an estimated restoration time). I then called my supervisor and ended up taking 1.5 hours of PTO (I was out for 2 hours, but the time of day was such that we decided my lunch was in the middle of this–I actually got back on almost 2 hours before the original estimate). I also no longer have an office to “return” to and I have a desk-top set up, not a laptop, so there’s no mobility.

          All of this is more a Jane’s employer issue than a Fergus’s employer issue, but that doesn’t mean that Fergus’s employer should be unaware of what is happening. However, since his job also involves a different subset of protected info, it is something that should be “kicked upstairs” to be sure that all the confidentiality issues are resolved to the satisfaction of Fergus’s employer.

      2. Panhandlerann*

        As a professor (I’m retired now), I couldn’t even let anyone (without the “need to know”–such as coworkers) know that any particular student was or was not enrolled at the university or in a class I (or anyone else) taught. So it is even a problem that a student shows up in this man’s office with his wife there and is by the student’s very presence there identified as being a student at that university.

        1. sara*

          This is a really extreme view of things. I have plenty of guest speakers who will notice that students are in my classroom and thus be able to guess that they are students, and this isn’t an issue. There are also generally just plenty of people coming and going on any university campus who may be able to guess at student status. This is like saying it’s a problem for people to see someone use their student ID to buy a coffee at the (open-to-the-public) on-campus Starbucks.

      3. Decagon*

        “Fergus works with student information which is FERPA protected. There is no way to fully ensure Jane isn’t seeing student data since she is working right there in his office where he is also working.”

        The university office I was assigned to with 7 other people, with large monitors that faced out into the shared space, made that standard … aspirational, to say the least.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yeah, this. OP need only concern themselves with their school’s security or liability situation WRT what Jane’s doing; whatever Jane’s employer might be concerned with is none of OP’s business.

        1. Broadway Duchess*

          The same way I felt about any of the other healthcare security breaches that have happened just this year alone.

      3. sara*

        This. The whole set up may be problematic for many reasons, but there is simply no need for the LW to become involved.

    4. Rex Libris*

      Remote work and confidentiality are pretty mutually exclusive. If Jane’s work is that sensitive, I’d think the employer needs to have her in an office somewhere with controlled access.

      1. DramaQ*

        Not entirely. Universities and people who worked with other secured or confidential information during COVID had to have approved set ups like separate space, locked file cabinet (which they’d buy if you needed one) and you must work from their secured VPN with username that showed it was them logged on for traceability.

        The OP said Jane is either using guest wifi which isn’t remotely secure or she’s using her husband’s credentials both of which are major HIPAA violations.

        If Fergus is allowing her to use his that’s a violation on his end too. Assuming he is a professor he has access to material an office person or lay person would be locked out of. Now Jane is free to snoop if she chose.

        I worked for a teaching hospital so I had the joy of annual HIPAA and FERPA training even though I didn’t work with either I was still expected to understand it AND by being an employee I was a mandatory reporter. I could get in trouble if I knew of a potential violation and didn’t report it.

        I doubt anything sinister is happening but both trainings drilled into you it doesn’t matter what your intentions are. It doesn’t matter what your reasons are.

        A violation is a violation. You agreed you understand this when you complete training.

        Jane and Fergus are being incredibly stupid. I understand where the LW is coming from with her concerns.

        1. Emmy Voter*

          “ The OP said Jane is either using guest wifi which isn’t remotely secure or she’s using her husband’s credentials ”

          The OP didn’t say that, a commenter assumed it.

          A reasonable assumption perhaps, but it’s not in the letter.

      2. Nightengale*

        I work remotely doing confidential work two full days a week and plenty of nights and weekends. I’m a doctor. I do telehealth visits. I call patients. I connect to our electronic health record through a secure VPN. I live alone. The days I work in the office are arguably less secure – there is usually someone around to overhear phone calls although that someone is another health care provider.

  8. An Australian in London*

    If this is well-known enough that random students know about it, comments definitely won’t be traced to you.

    To add to reasons already given for why this may indeed be Quite A Big Deal:

    – The university insurance might require that they take reasonable steps to secure the workplace. If keycards are used to sign into this area then almost certainly this is a campus security violation.

    – If people are signing in to this area then an unsigned person won’t be on the list that fire wardens will be working from. (This is one of the reasons most workplaces ask visitors to sign in.)

    – OP mentioned a grad student. If there are undergrads in this building then there may be issues with people without credentials hanging around minors. (I was required to get an AU Working With Children check to be able to work on a university campus.)

    1. Ivkra*

      Undergrads aren’t minors, though. Unless the university has a headstart style program, the students should be almost all adults. Even with a head-start program, that would be a serious minority of students, like in the single-digit, percentile-wise; the vast majority are 18 or over, and legal adults.

      And even for the students who might be minors, there’s nearly no difference in how they’re treated on paper. I’ve actually had one or two minors in my class before, and not only was there no additional documentation or credentials required for me, the only note I got was when I double checked that FERPA applied to them (not exactly, because unlike the students who are legal adults, parents of minor college students don’t need their consent to access their records).

      1. doreen*

        Whether and how many undergraduates are minors depends on the cut off date when they started school. It’s really only going to affect freshmen, but in my city, the cut off date is December 31 which means approximately 50% graduate high school at 17. Some will turn 18 between graduating high school and starting college but plenty won’t.

      2. Peanut Hamper*

        I was 17 my entire freshman year at college. I knew other students (honors college) who were 16 during their freshman year and 17 during their sophomore year.

        “Undergrads aren’t minors, though” is complete nonsense. It’s not like there’s an age requirement to get into college.

        Also–a lot of colleges do have “head start” (I’m not fond of your infantilizing phrasing here, but whatever) type programs for G&T high school students during the summer or after school during the school year. (Again, see “G&T” for details.) So while this might not be an issue for you it could damn well be an issue for OP, who presumably has a duty to warn.

        1. Santiago*

          It’s disingenuous to treat the undergraduate population as minors, when only a very small percentage is for a short period of time in their first year. I also started college early (16) and can recognize that I was in the extreme minority.

          1. doreen*

            That’s true – but the original comment wasn’t about treating undergraduates as minors. It was about the possibility that people working on campus might need a specific credential/background check and the fact that only a small percentage of students are minors doesn’t always factor into those requirements.

            1. sara*

              I’m not saying it’s impossible that some universities require that, but I have worked at four different universities, all with contact with undergrad students, and have never been asked to do anything of this sort.

      4. Panhandlerann*

        All employees at my university were considered mandatory reporters and as such needed to undergo the appropriate training as such. Sometimes college employees do work with minors, as you yourself note. The fact that this woman is around students on the regular without having undergone such training (presumably she has not) is definitely a problem.

    2. An Australian in London*

      To clarify, in that jurisdiction the presence of even one undergrad under the age of 18 meant all teaching staff had to have a current Working With Children check. It’s basically a criminal background check for any convictions that creates a perception of being unfit to be around minors in any work context.

      Also there are more minors at university that most people realise. I was at university when I was 15 and I know dozens of others in the same boat.

  9. Percy Jackson*

    I did this ONCE when I worked at a university. But it was because my partner needed access to research that was only available in a giant book that I could access at the library, and it was not reasonable for me to carry it home. So he came to work with me one day and worked remotely so he could use the book. Also, my office was within the largest library on campus, so he sat in a public area while I worked.

    And even then, I felt kind of weird, just having my work and personal life intersect so closely. I can’t imagine having him share my cubicle with me on a daily basis.

    1. academic librarian*

      THIS is an excellent example of when someone unaffiliated with the university should use the library. Your partner was actually using the collection! That’s great! Totally appropriate

  10. JFC*

    If it’s not impacting OP’s ability to do their job, then I’d stay out of it. There’s a lot of unknowns here, at least from the letter. Perhaps the university and/or Jane’s employer know about the arrangement and are fine with it. What do you know about Fergus’ office setup? There may be multiple desks or areas that allow them each to work with the confidential material without the other seeing it. It doesn’t sound like Fergus is dealing with students in person very much if his office is in an obscure area and he holds odd hours.

    This is very much in “not your business” territory.

    1. A Library Person*

      In many situations, this would probably fall under “not OP’s business”, but it sounds like they are aware of a situation that is potentially exposing student records to unauthorized parties. That’s a pretty big deal (and separate desks aren’t going to cover it), and I think that they have an ethical obligation to report it to their manager.

      1. HonorBox*

        Not to mention that students are bringing it to OP’s attention. While it doesn’t sound like there were questions about it, if students know her and point out that it is happening regularly, it is something the OP should probably know how to speak about.

      2. Annie*

        Yup. If OP had noticed it herself, maybe it’s not her business and she doesn’t say anything. But if students are coming up to OP and reporting it, she sort of has that obligation to mention it to her manager, just to support the students. It became her business when the students reported it to her.

    2. Ess Ess*

      It could very much be OP’s business. I used to work at a university many years ago. A lot of universities have a policy that if you are aware of a potential student privacy violation and don’t report it, you could lose your job. So if it turned out that this does impact student privacy, and they find out that OP did know and didn’t say anything, it’s OP’s job at risk along with Fergus.

  11. JP*

    If I were a student, I’d certainly be more hesitant to approach Fergus if his wife was sitting right there.

    2. But Of Course*

      This setup would so weird me out as a student, based on how much it’s weirding me out now. How codependent is your relationship that this, THIS is the setup you’ve chosen to do your jobs?

      And I don’t care whether they live in a hovel with no electricity/Jane has no desk to work at because her company has no offices/it’s all secretly fine because other circumstances where spouses worked with confidential data around each other. This is codependency.

      1. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

        Naah, codependency is a different thing. People can enjoy working alongside each other without it being that. The issue here isn’t whether it’s good for their relationship – the issue if any is the knock-on consequences to others.

  12. E*

    While this is much less weird in academia than in a corporate office (especially if Fergus is faculty – profs often have a ton of freedom) I agree that it’s still strange. I would emphasize being /casual/ in how you bring it up to your boss but probably worthwhile to note.

    I think Jane’s risk to her company is legit but doesn’t seem relevant to how the OP would address.

  13. HonorBox*

    Aside from the confidentiality concerns from both spouses’ work, I’m stuck on the liability thing. My workplace has a remote work policy that states very specifically that we are allowed to work from home in a dedicated space unless we get prior approval to work elsewhere. So we can’t just move from coffee shop to library back to coffee shop. That enables us to provide insurance coverage should we trip and fall. Or if something happens to our laptop, we’re covered by the company’s policy. I’d be very curious to know if Jane’s company knows where she’s doing her work, from both the confidentiality side and from the insurance coverage side.

    OP, mention it casually to your boss. Just say that you’ve had some students mention that Jane is there working regularly and wanted to see how to respond to them. Maybe everything is on the up and up, your boss is aware, and Fergus and Jane have approval. But if not, they’ll be able to know what they might not already.

    1. Banana Pyjamas*

      I do think this is the best approach. There’s no reporting so to speak, just a matter of fact question on how to proceed with inquiries.

    2. samwise*

      The university I work at has the same requirement (usually your home address), although we are allowed to work remotely from other locations if we are travelling, sitting in a hospital room with a family member, etc. We are expected to use the secure vpn in such cases

    3. WorkFromWherever*

      FWIW, I’ve been working hybrid or fully remote since the mid90s and I’ve never had any restrictions on where I can work. Back in the day I used to go to an internet cafe to work in the morning and the library in the afternoon at least twice a week. I’ve worked from the resident lounge in my apartment building and all sorts of other places. Work at home meant work someplace other than the office.

  14. H.Regalis*

    Since it sounds like it’s happening on a regular basis and there’s the possibility that he’s running afoul of FERPA or other privacy laws (depending on what country you’re in), then I would mention it to your boss. Violations of those laws can be quite expensive.

    1. Liz*

      I work at a university that also has a hospital, and Fergus’ solution would not fly on either side. There’s no way the hospital would approve one of their employees working with HIPAA data from an unapproved location, and if Fergus’ job requires him to meet with people, and discuss confidential student data, having a non-employee there would be totally off limits.

      Between the privacy and liability issues, I don’t think Fergus and Jane have approval for this.

  15. JSPA*

    We have an agreement like this. In particular, when one of us was on sabbatical in a foreign country without much internet service and fluctuating electric supply. “The other of us also gets a desk, surge-protected outlet and internet access to work in silence on different academic topic” was part of the deal. But also, when only the university and a strip of downtown had reasonable internet connectivity.

    Outside of an academic department, this seems like Quite A Lot, barring extreme situations. (Though the world has a lot of extreme situations: stalkers, threats, lack of secure housing, creeps at the coworking space, 6 months of road construction that’s always supposed to be “done in a day or two,” new health issue they’re getting a handle on, etc etc. Heck, even “our internet is screwed up and the service provider has been stringing us along for months.”)

    But universities are so used to the trailing body problem, and so well set up for quite a lot of people passing through the workplace, that if there’s space, there’s often willingness to make that space available for many sorts of visitors.

    In addition , a professor’s office is darn near a fiefdom.

    I knew one prof who set up two octopus tanks on the desk, because the temperature was more steady there than in their home. (Not a marine biologist, not for research.)

    2. TallTeapot*

      As someone who works at a large, public university and has spent a 30 year career in higher ed, just leave this alone, LW. Is it weird? Yes. Is anyone going to do anything about it? Likely no. But if you do get people to do anything about it or start raising it as “something that needs to be addressed”, it won’t end well for you. Fergus can have his wife work in his office. What his wife’s employer thinks about it, who knows, but I can pretty much assure you that higher ed does not want to get involved with the details about whether or not faculty are allowed to have family members in their offices–especially if Fergus is already working odd hours. I knew faculty who lived in their offices–as in, did not have another residence. I knew faculty who kept private student data laying around in random spots.

      1. Guacamole Bob*

        I didn’t get the sense that Fergus was faculty – I agree that this would be seen as odd but no one would say anything if a prof did this. I read it as they worked in the financial aid or student life or academic advising or career services office, which makes it much stranger and more likely to be a problem. If it’s an area where you need key cards to get in and/or students may have appointments or stop by (and not for faculty office hours where the person gets to decide when they’re available), then it’s really not appropriate to have someone else working there.

        1. Ivkra*

          I absolutely assumed Fergus was faculty, simply because faculty do things like this alllll the time (not that that’s an excuse necessarily), and because I struggle to imagine a staff or admin doing this and not getting stopped by their superior immediately. Having worked around universities for many years, and having had a partner who’s been in university admin, faculty members are often extremely entitled, and they’re far less likely to get called on violations of workplace boundaries.

          My partner once used my office to work remotely during a power outage at our house, and I knew several other people who did the same – in our case, she had an interview for a promotion the day the power went down, and we didn’t really have time to find another solution. I’ve also had colleagues whose partners did the same thing, but always as a one-off – during a visit, or something similar.

      2. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

        I think a lot depends on what Fergus’s job is. My university office has confidential data as 95% of our job and we put a halt to other university staff even using our office as a cut through to other offices. If you don’t have a reason to be in our office, you can’t be here. Because even if you work for the university you only have the right to data you have a need to know.

        OTOH, nobody would probably blink if a faculty member or someone from facilities had someone in their office all the time, but the fact that students notice is problematic. But I am not sure I would make it my problem.

      3. Mad Harry Crewe*

        > I knew faculty who kept private student data laying around in random spots.

        Yeah, but that’s not good. That’s bad, actually. “A bad thing happened at my university and nobody put a stop to it, so you should ignore it happening at your university” is not the persuasive argument that you think.

    3. sara*

      We had a faculty member (since moved on) who had giant grow lights in his office and was growing a medium-sized rainforest worth of plants (not weed), including carniverous plants. Again, not research related, just a hobby.

  16. I Have RBF*

    The only valid reasons I can see for this are problems at home:
    * No internet, or super flaky internet that the provider is dragging their feet on fixing
    * A major remodeling project that has workmen in the house, therefore the university is more secure

    I would assume that his manager knows, or should know. If she is on a VPN, then it’s no different from working in a library, except less risk for snooping.

    But, it’s not really in OPs wheelhouse to police this. If her coworker does not meet students in his office, there isn’t a security risk, IMO, especially if they both have privacy screens on their machines.

    1. Observer*

      If her coworker does not meet students in his office, there isn’t a security risk, IMO,

      We don’t know that Fergus is not supposed to be meeting students.

      But even if that were the case, he *is* working with confidential student data, which his wife does not have the legal right to see.

      1. Aquamarine*

        I agree this isn’t a good setup, but I don’t think there’s reason to assume that she’s seeing anything she isn’t supposed to see. In my office, people with access to confidential info work right next to staff who don’t have that access. Being nearby doesn’t mean that confidentiality is being breached in some way.

        1. carrot cake*

          “In my office, people with access to confidential info work right next to staff who don’t have that access.”

          —

          Okay, but that’s a known, understood, calculated risk. A spouse’s presence isn’t.

          Her lack of wifi or whatever the problem is hers and her workplace’s to solve, not Fergus’s workplace to solve.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      However, if the information Fergus handles is sort of confidential, where else should he meet students if not in his office?

      Wife needs to work elsewhere.

      1. I Have RBF*

        When I worked at a university with access to confidential student data – name, address, phone number, etc, I worked out in the middle of an open plan office, with my back to a conference room door. I did not ever meet with students. I also had privacy screens on my monitors so that people couldn’t shoulder surf.

        Working with student data doesn’t mean he is student facing.

        2. Dust Bunny*

          OP updated below: 1) Fergus IS supposed to be meeting with students. I don’t know if his wife has ever been there during his office hours, though.

  17. Angstrom*

    One could start by posing it as a hypothetical: “What’s the university policy on having my partner work in my office with me if we’ve got a problem at home?”

  18. Redaktorin*

    The sort of people who convince themselves this is a great idea also happen to be the sort of people who will do other inappropriate and boundary-crossing stuff. Personally, I don’t care enough to report anything like this, but if I did, I’d work very hard to be sure it couldn’t be traced back to me.

  19. The Rafters*

    I can almost guarantee that even if Fergus has permission from the university, wife certainly does not have permission from her employer. This is a BIG deal. I would reach out to HR about this.

    1. WellRed*

      But the wife doesn’t work for university. Why would the university care if it’s a big deal? Why would anybody outside of the wife’s employer?

  20. Apex Mountain*

    It is odd for sure, but I would stay out of it myself – IMO it’s one of those “not my circus not my monkeys” situations

    1. Having a Scrummy Week*

      Exactly. I think it’s a tad weird that OP thinks it’s their place to worry about this.

      1. Pretty as a Princess*

        ” we work with confidential student records and so that students can stop by to see us at any time”

        When you work somewhere that you have access to data deemed confidential under the law, you get a LOT of training about how to treat said data and access to it and who you discuss it with. You are EXPLICITLY trained that stuff like this is EXACTLY your circus and your monkeys. Employees with access to FERPA-protected data at a university are required to regularly get refresher training and to attest that they understand and will comply with FERPA requirements. Knowing about this and *not* raising it could make the OP themselves liable if Fergus is committing FERPA violations.

        1. Apex Mountain*

          LW didn’t mention any of that though. I wonder if either it doesn’t apply in their situation or if they haven’t had the training. Because if it’s so clear cut why would LW need to write in

          1. Mad Harry Crewe*

            Because humans second-guess themselves all the time? Because the real world is always a bit squdgier than the security training examples? For the same reason that a ton of the commentariat here is saying to ignore or, or it’s fine?

            1. Apex Mountain*

              Well if the commenters (like me) are saying it’s ok it’s because we’re not familiar with FERPA or these regulations.

              Pretty as a Princess made it sound like if you work in the LW’s capacity you are constantly reminded of this and getting training updates, etc.

          2. Pretty as a Princess*

            They did mention it – right by saying they work with confidential records.

            Believe it or not, unless something is as overt as someone saying “I am going to do some Crimes now” a lot of people will struggle with the sniff test when they encounter something that sets off their antenna about confidential materials for the first time. Because it doesn’t look exactly like the example scenario in their training, or because they think maybe the boss has okayed something and they don’t know if they should make waves, or maybe because they don’t remember specific details of their training (which happens because we are ALL human). And they might seek feedback about how overt something needs to be to set off alarms, to validate their instinct.

        2. Ess Ess*

          Exactly this!!! I worked in an area of a university years ago that handled confidential information and it was very strict about reporting any possible FERPA violations. Many of the comments here are making guesses about the extent of Fergus’s job and confidentiality, but the best person to really make that decision would be Fergus’s supervisor. So it is best for OP to simply ask and let Fergus’s boss decide if there is an issue or not. If there’s no issue, then it’s been mentioned and everyone moves on. If there is an issue, then it was very important that someone mention it because of the impact on the student privacy which every employee there is supposed to protect.

  21. Having a Scrummy Week*

    At my university, it was not at all unusual for professors to bring their spouses in to work or hang out. Unless I was sure that something nefarious is going on, I would just mind my own business with this one. Not your circus.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Except it sounds like both of them handle information that might be sensitive, and students are commenting on it. Fergus’ approachability to students and the privacy of information of patrons of both of their jobs needs to take precedence over coziness or convenience for Fergus and Jane.

      1. Having a Scrummy Week*

        OP can go speak to Fergus directly about his/her concerns, then. Going to the boss is unnecessary and makes OP look like a narc, unless Fergus can’t satisfactorily address the concerns.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          “makes OP look like a narc”

          Oh, come on–it sounds like Fergus should not need this explained to him and if the OP doesn’t have any authority, there is zero reason to go to Fergus first. That’s not tattling–that’s reporting a situation that could be very problematic for the student population that it should be Fergus’ priority to serve. I just don’t think everyone needs extra opportunities to hide situations they shouldn’t have created in the first place.

        2. IEanon*

          Being a narc is when you track your coworkers comings and goings, or when you tell your boss that you think someone taking a sick day is actually going to the theater to watch a new movie.

          It is NOT when you let your boss know that there may be a real violation of federal law that can get your university or department audited/sanctioned/sued taking place down the hall.

  22. Insert Pun Here*

    If you know (or suspect there to be) a FERPA violation here, your institution may actually have policies that require you to report it (mine does.)

    For those not in higher ed: FERPA is no joke. (Think HIPAA but for information that is not, in most cases, quite as sensitive as health info. For instance, a professor confirming that a student is enrolled in a class can be considered a FERPA violation, if the person they tell doesn’t have a need to know.)

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      As a former teacher, very much this. FERPA is no walk in the park. It is some serious stuff.

      And if somebody finds out that OP knew but said nothing….? That could be serious trouble down the road as well. OP has a duty to report it up the chain of command. If they choose to do nothing, at least OP has covered their bases.

      1. Observer*

        And if somebody finds out that OP knew but said nothing….?

        Yes, I was thinking this as well.

        LW, all sorts of cruft, crud and garbage rolls down hill. If the Powers That Be, find out and feel a need to Do Something, guess what that Something is going to be? Your job could really be on the line here.

  23. Elizabeth Royer*

    To me this is only a problem because of the student confidentiality thing. If it weren’t for that I don’t think it would be a huge deal, of course assuming the spouse is unobtrusive and pleasant. To me the concern about resources feels a little overblown – presumably she’s not going to use a dozen pencils or take up that much bandwidth. To me (again, minus the confidentiality concern) this would fall under the category of things that are technically against the rules but not ethically wrong.

    2. carrot cake*

      Multiply the “not a big deal” casualness by ‘x’ number of spouses, though. I’m having a tough time reconciling the “meh” attitude.

  24. Observer*

    LW, please keep in mind that your administration is probably going to look for someone to go after if this becomes public. If you warned someone (and can document it), then you should be safe. But otherwise?

    Are you willing to bet your job that you won’t be the sacrificial kid?

  25. OP*

    OP here. Thanks everyone for your comments! To follow up on some questions that arose:

    1) Fergus IS supposed to be meeting with students. I don’t know if his wife has ever been there during his office hours, though.
    2) Fergus has a partial work-from-home accommodation (basically, he’s allowed to leave early a few times a week to pick up his child from daycare and is supposed to finish his remaining stuff at home) so if his internet is shoddy, that’s a BIG problem for other reasons.
    3) To my knowledge, there are no renovations happening at home.
    4) Fergus has a small office with a desk and a very small table, so they could in theory work in the same room without looking over each other’s shoulders.
    5) Wife would only be able to use Wi-Fi at the university if a) she connected to the not-very-secure guest Wi-Fi, or b) she’s using his login credentials to access the staff/faculty/student Wi-Fi.
    6) It’s not TOO uncommon in our workplace for parents to bring their kids to work every now and then (school is closed, child has doctor’s appointment, that kind of thing) but they’re always very open about it.
    7) I work in a very small department and don’t think Fergus’ manager knows this is happening.

    1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

      Thanks, OP. I hope you will update us if there’s anything worth updating. Primarily because of the nature of each spouse’s work, I think the arrangement is too sketchy.

      I somehow doubt Jane would opt for the guest wi-fi because she needs her work to be secure. If so, this is REALLY opening the school up to legal liabilities big time. Imagine a data breach happening at the school that affects Jane’s work as well. Yikes!

    2. MistOrMister*

      If I was a student and needed to see Fergus durinf office hours, I would find his wife’s presence to be very offputting. Or if I was a student working in the office and needed to speak to him for some reason, it would bother me if his wife was ALWAYS there. I would certainly say something casually to his boss. Then if its not allowed, they can look into and handle it.

      On another note, I cannot believe for one second that Jane, dealing with confidential medical information, has been cleared by her job to work on public wifi! And if she is using Fergus’ login credentials to use the university wifi without approval from the school that is a whole other issue.

      2. Dust Bunny*

        Thirding–I don’t even use PayPal on public wifi.

        Also, fortysomething me would barge in there and ask Jane to give us some privacy, but 19-to-22-year-old me would have been very uncomfortable and would have gone without whatever service Fergus is supposed to provide rather than confront an relatively-senior adult who, I would have assumed, was approved to be there. Fergus and Jane shouldn’t get to let that take precedence over Fergus’ job.

    3. Lokifan*

      This sounds very dodgy to me! Especially the manager not knowing.

      (As a Brit who’s done some lecturing, I’m like !!! because she’d definitely be sneaking into a keycarded area for this to be happening. Plus if she was ever alone with the students, like they’re waiting for Fergus, that’d likely be a serious problem because a lot of uni students are legally “vulnerable adults” and an adult who’s alone with them at work needs a background check. but that’s the UK so I’m trying not to apply those norms.)

    4. AB*

      Having been a victim of identity theft twice and being a healthcare provider, I am LIVID that the wife is working in an office that is not affiliated to her employer to access sensitive healthcare data. As an example, I have access to HUNDREDS of people’s healthcare records. This record includes SS#, address, your PCP and other providers info, sometimes even patient’s employer. Who knows the breadth of data the wife has access to but her cavalier attitude in securing it is the reason why HIPAA laws exist and why we keep hearing about security breaches.

      I am 100% positive IF her employer knew of her setup, would revoked her WFH privileges. Btw, please don’t feel bad about bringing this up to management or HR. SHE has created this situation, not you.

      What she is doing is NOT ok. For those who say “not my circus not my monkeys”, she may have access to YOUR records or dear friend or close family member. Would you want her to be looking at it on some school campus????

      And others have pointed out that students may feel intimidated by a family member being present REGULARLY. The optics from the student-professor angle aren’t good.

      1. Riley*

        How do you even know she is using the wifi? She could using a company phone as a hotspot, or she could have a VPN on her company laptop.

        Get some facts before you get your high dudgeon on.

        1. Observer*

          She could using a company phone as a hotspot,

          Then she shouldn’t have a need to be in Fergus’ office. Besides, unless she has a *really* good phone, and the office has *really* good genuine 5G reception (the mm wave) version, that kind of connection tends to be barely adequate. Which means it’s possible, but not the most likely thing.

          she could have a VPN on her company laptop

          Maybe. But VPN’s are not a cure all for security issues. Jobs like this often require people to work from specified locations so that the employer can make sure that there is a secure connection. They do this for a reason.

          Also, aside from the wifi issue, there is the issue that she’s sitting with her company laptop in an office where students come in to talk to someone else. Those students are *by definition* people who don’t have any business seeing what she’s working on.

          No, what she is doing would have a high chance of getting her fired in most companies who deal with healthcare data. And with good reason.

    5. Computer-Man*

      5 – is the “not-very-secure” guest WiFi “not-very-secure” because it’s a simple password, or “not-very-secure” because it doesn’t run through the firewall (it probably does) and other devices can communicate openly with each other?

      Assuming she’s using the guest WiFi, there’s not really much in way of IT security issues on either side (assuming her work has secure connections, and the guest WiFi is still running through the firewall and guest devices can’t see each other).

      If she’s connecting to the staff WiFi, you should definitely 100% tattle on her.

      1. Friday Hopeful*

        I’m not a computer-man or woman, however, wouldn’t even a secure wi-fi with a firewall mean that the IT department has access to the work she is doing?

    6. Liralle*

      OP, I feel like you have the perfect opportunity to raise the issue without raising the issue – the students are the ones raising it! “Hey, a couple of the undergrads keep asking about Fergus’s wife’s new position in the office. I have no idea what to tell them!” Then wait – if your supervisor immediately starts asking for more info, you can let him know what they told you, and provide any other facts you feel are relevant. But emphasize the problem is their concerns, which they have every right to have since it’s likely interfering in some way with their working with him. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be bringing it up!

  26. Bookworm*

    I agree with previous comments that this is a concern due to the student data confidentiality issue. It would be otherwise weird, but the confidentiality thing overrides everything else.

    1. Carol the happy*

      When I was at my hometown college, (1977-1981, shortly after Noah landed the ark….) Every. Single. Building. had a huge, heavy, thousand-page old style computer binder with Every. Single. Student’s. personal information.

      Name, SSN, address, home phone number, and emergency contact (usually parent) name and phone. Oh, and class times and room numbers, and dorms.

      For security, they left off the parent’s address.

      I didn’t worry about the SSN, but it irked me that my phone number and dorm were out there, because some weird guy kept showing up at my dorm with little gifts and date requests. Other girls had stalkers, but we didn’t use that term then.

      Yeah, security is vital, and Fergus and Jane seem to be risking it.

      Security and privacy are EVERYBODY’S circus, with EVERYBODY’S monkeys.

  27. Lou*

    I’m generally believe in minding your own business; however, this sets off alarm bells because it sounds like Fergus is trying to hide something (coming in odd hours, not being seen much by the team). I think there are enough possibilities where something bad is happening (at minimum possible information security concerns around student information) that the LW has a responsibility to speak up.

    1. samwise*

      Nah, faculty have weird hours, and so might Fergus even if he’s not faculty.

      I work in a non-faculty office at a large university. We have a hybrid schedule, but additionally, people may come in early or late for work or personal reasons, be gone for meetings, need to work at home, go across campus to meet someone.

      Weird hours and not seen much do not automatically = up to no good, at least at a college or university.

  28. Anne Shirley Blythe*

    If I wanted to speak to my instructor, I might be VERY put off by a third party being there, depending on the reason for my visit. To be fair, the OP did not clarify whether Jane steps out of the office. It’s possible, sure. But also not. I suspect it’s more likely Jane does not want to be spotted in the hallway/break room.

    1. Lady Danbury*

      Even if she stepped out when a student came in, her presence alone would be a deterrent for many students who might feel like they’re interrupting.

      1. NoPrivacyExpected*

        Both of my parents have been professors for some or most of their careers, I’ve attended school through most of a Ph.D., and I’ve been an instructor myself. I’ve rarely encountered a professor or instructor with a private office. Where is this expectation of privacy coming from?

        1. Eisbaer*

          At the public university where I work, the faculty union contract specifies that professors will be provided a private office. This applies only to regular academic rank faculty. Adjuncts, postdocs, teaching assistants, lecturers, etc. are not guaranteed a private office.

          But from the sound of it, I don’t think Fergus is faculty.

  29. Jademelody12*

    I find the different reactions fascinating. When I was in college, I was a student assistant for a professor. I had full access to his office, computer, and gradebook (tells on me for how long ago!), but I did also grade papers for him. His family hung out in his office on a fairly regular basis. (mom working late, so kids hang out with professor while he finishes up his day, sometimes with my support watching them) Should this have been a big deal? I’m genuinely curious now.

    1. Anne Shirley Blythe*

      Same. Granted I have a firm stance on this, but I still don’t think everyone’s thinking through the ramifications and nuances.

      Different students will have different personalities, of course. If someone had to discuss a sensitive subject (like truly not understanding the reason for a low score or grade) and that person is introverted, I can guarantee you they wouldn’t want an audience (if Jane is indeed there.)

      1. WhoHasPrivateOffices*

        Yep. I hung out in my mom’s office all the time, even into my early 20s when I was visiting them. Also, I’ve rarely seen faculty with private offices and never adjuncts or grad student instructors. Sometimes the professor or instructor would have their office hours while their office mate(s) were unlikely to be there, sometimes not. As a student when I went to office hours if I wanted privacy I usually had to ask for it and the professor could say no.

  30. Decidedly Me*

    My partner’s office is pretty casual and family members typically have their own key cards to the office. It’s not unusual to see a spouse working from there from time to time (I’ve do it myself maybe once or twice a year). There are spaces away from those that work in the office, though confidentiality isn’t a big concern.

    All this said, there are a few spouses that hang around everyday, all day and it comes across very strangely and the sense is that it’s taking advantage of the office benefits. I can’t imagine someone doing that within someone’s personal office, where in person meetings are meant to take place.

    Given the confidentiality concerns here, I’d bring it up to someone.

  31. NurseThis*

    I was thinking their home has inadequate Wi-Fi and she was piggybacking on the University’s.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      Then they need to purchase better wifi, she needs to find a work area that is not on the university or work in office at her own employer because this is a violation on so many different levels.

  32. Susan*

    I now work in higher education, after a long career in business, and no doubt that has caused some bias. That’s why I hate to say this, but to me this sounds like Sayre’s Law in action.

  33. Poison I.V. drip*

    This reminds me of the first office job I had at a large company. We had an entire floor in a large building, but had downsized quite a bit so there was an entire section of office that was just empty cubicles… until one day when one of my coworkers noticed a random person – not an employee – had just set up their own workspace in one of the cubicles. They were quiet and discreet enough that no one noticed they had been doing this for a few months.

  34. samwise*

    One issue would be a FERPA violation aka Buckley Amendment, which is federal law regarding the confidentiality of student records.

    Just being in the office would not be a violation. If Jane is looking at student academic records, that’s a violation. Practically speaking, however, it would be hard to discover, and it’s not generally something the university itself is going to be looking for, unless it’s massive or egregious or being used for nefarious purposes. It could open the university to a lawsuit from a student.

    It’s one of those things that employees of higher ed institutions are supposed to follow scrupulously. In my own department, the FERPA problem is employees who print out confidential student info (say, a transcript) for legitimate, work-related reasons, but then leave the item at the copy machine, where anyone — including student workers –can see it.

  35. Todd*

    I’m not sure I consider student records highly confidential. However if she works with medical records, that would put her firmly into hipaa compliance rules and her employer would probably have issue with it if they knew.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      FERPA is just a step or so from HIPPA. And as a university worker believe me when I say they take that very seriously!!

    2. IEanon*

      Well, in this case, the law does consider them highly confidential. FERPA is very serious and good universities take it very seriously. The setup OP is describing sounds very similar to the work I do in my office, with the added complexity that we also work with additional sensitive PII. In fact, questions about confidentiality and protecting private information are part of our hiring process.

      Any A/P faculty member on my team would be in a lot of trouble if they regularly had a non-employee working or just hanging out in their office, especially when they are expected to meet with students. It doesn’t sound like student meetings are a regular part of the job for this staff member (it’s unclear), but this would be a major violation for my team and would seriously call their judgement into question.

      Maybe it’s just unfamiliarity with higher ed as a field, but I’m rather horrified by all the commenters saying you should just mind your own business, OP, or that this is no big deal. I would certainly be in a lot of trouble if I knew this was happening and didn’t at least mention it to my supervisor to dig into more.

      1. Kammy6707*

        Right? The universities I have worked have software that scan emails for PII and they will not send to outside email addresses if it catches something. I’ve also had emails from potential students held for several days because they put their phone number in the email and the software must have thought it could be their SSN instead.

  36. Pidgeot*

    My question would be- is she using university internet? Because there’s a whole slew of liabilities if she’s using the faculty network (or presumably even taking up bandwidth on the public or student network).

    1. Fearow*

      I would sincerely hope she’s using either her own hotspot, or a public access point. But yes, the biggest issue from a technical perspective is whether or not she’s on the staff network – which is not her employer’s problem (and it’s unlikely she’d chew enough bandwidth for it to matter), but definitely a security problem for the university.

  37. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    As someone who works in a university with student records AND with student medical records I think I have some knowledge on this. And the short answer is this is not OK on either end.
    Even if they were working from home the wife would need her own separate area away from anyone else and would need to have a door that closes. During the pandemic we had to shift to remote counseling sessions and it was difficult for some people but it had to be done. Someone could see or overhear some confidential information on her computer. Also, is she using an open network like university guest? That is not going to be secure for the level of her work. And if she is using her husbands university credentials to use the more secure network that is even more problematic.

    On Fergus’s side, it is problematic because she may overhear sensitive and confidential information about students. She isn’t an employee so she hasn’t been given FERPA training (if this is in the US).

    They are both in violation. Heck in our office we have to be careful when guests come into the office.

  38. TinkerTailorSolderDye*

    OP, please tell your boss.

    Commenters being blasé about saying anything/leave it alone:

    What on earth are you all thinking? Confidential, PERSONAL records have been confirmed in the letter to be in play, as are confidential medical records from Jane. This needs shut down yesterday.

    My job is archival, digitization, and storage of registration and personal records across almost a century, and I am anal about their protection, not in the least of which is because my predecessors didn’t give a rat’s a$$ about confidentiality. Because my clients need me to be that dedicated to their privacy. Because ethically, it would be a violation of both my employment and my morals to compromise their privacy. And because that is the standard by which anyone at all dealing with any records on people should be held to.

    I am appalled at the blatant disregard for that care, and that so many seem to side with Fergus because ‘it can be lonely without your spouse at home’. Yeah, it is, I miss working with my husband because we ran like a pair of carriage horses in harness, perfectly in sync and together, we could tackle anything. But if he were to come work at my office, we would insist on not only separate offices and not even a breath of chain of command, but near total separation. Because that’s the ethical thing to do. And if he were to get a job that was WFH, he would work from home, or from a safe, secure rented office in our downtown area; he would not be allowed to come to my office. Because that is the ethical, right thing to do.

    And then there’s the students that need to meet with Fergus. That is 100% not okay to have Jane in the room, even if she does step out, because so, so many people are going to be nervous or put off by someone who isn’t a staff or faculty member in there. And if she stays? Even more a problem. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to sweep up large handfuls of hard copies and shoved them in their box when people come into my office that aren’t my fellow staff; so many times, people say “oh, it’s okay!” and I have to explain that I’m sorry, don’t worry, it’s not a problem to put it away, but I will not leave it out.

    And then there’s FERPA, which I almost forgot about, so thanks to all who mentioned it above!

    I wish you the best, OP, and I hope Fergus learns his lesson.

    1. IEanon*

      THANK YOU. This 100%.

      I don’t think people commenting understand how similar FERPA requirements are to HIPAA’s regarding student records and information. Would you want a spouse just hanging out in your nurse’s office as they input your medical history and chart info? I wouldn’t.

    2. Hroethvitnir*

      What on earth are you all thinking? Confidential, PERSONAL records have been confirmed in the letter to be in play, as are confidential medical records from Jane. This needs shut down yesterday.

      Yeah, “in play” as in they work with confidential information. Not as in “are sharing it”. If anything, if they both work with confidential information it’s more likely they know how to handle it without creating issues.

      Personally, I’d want to follow up to see if it is negatively impacting students, but I don’t think Fergus needs to “learn a lesson”.

      1. Lollipop Guild*

        OP has posted above that Fergus’ wife is almost certainly either using public, unsecured wifi or using his faculty login, so it doesn’t appear either of them are working with confidential information without creating issues.

      2. Observer*

        Personally, I’d want to follow up to see if it is negatively impacting students,

        How would you know? No one will know for sure *until* something bad happens. That’s too late.

  39. RLC*

    I was in a workplace where family members regularly came in, and the behavior of those family members ranged from “so wonderful we brought them on as an official volunteer” in the case of one colleague’s very polite and helpful teen daughter, all the way to “how can we banish them for all time” in the case of another colleague’s husband who we suspected to be accessing confidential information and taking office supplies.
    So hard to manage the situation fairly and equitably if this happens.

  40. Long Time Lurker*

    I did this *once* and it was because I work from home and had a late zoom meeting and it was the same day as my husband’s company’s holiday party at a hotel across the street from his office, so it made sense for me to come downtown dressed, do my meeting from one of the conference rooms, and then go with everyone to the party. Even then it felt a little weird (though people were very nice about it—one of his colleagues made me a cup of tea!). But I can’t imagine doing that in many other circumstances.

  41. Anon for this one*

    Just wanted to add that bringing this up within the organization may be a kindness to Jane in the long run. I’ve been aware of domestic situations where the controlling partner arranged things so that the controlled partner never had even a minute out of their sight. It was impossible to see from the outside, as controlled partners are very good at projecting the “right” image.

  42. I'm the Phoebe in Any Group*

    Former Professor here: this would absolutely discourage students from meeting with me. Whether it was an appointment or a drop in visit, another person in the office would stop many students from meeting with me to discuss struggles with their paper, a grade, etc. If they did come in, FERPA would prevent me from saying 90% of what I needed to say.
    This is an extreme example: a student came to my office to tell me she had been raped (off campus). She came to me because I was a safe person for her. If another person was ensconced in my office, she never would have talked to me. She needed and deserved my support and that could only happen in a private setting.
    This situation is wrong and cheats students. OP, I agreed you need to say something. Students telling you about it gives you a perfect point of reference. Ask the department chair how to handle when students come to you with this concern. Make sure the Chair undetstands it is a regular thing, not an isolated incident.

    1. Decagon*

      This is an excellent argument for faculty to have private offices. The fact that so many of us are assigned to shared offices shows that many (if not most) universities aren’t convinced by it.

  43. Hyaline*

    Just for the record, and I didn’t want to respond to every comment that brought this up, so tacked on here at the bottom: “confidential student information” is handled at institutions of higher ed in spaces like: Shared offices, offices shared with student workers, open-concept offices, cubicles, offices that are part of campus tours of prospective students and parents, open-concept offices with adjacent waiting areas not at all cut off from the areas records might used, and plenty of other places not what you could call “private.” Records cannot be left unattended, so filing cabinets have to be locked, offices with records out should be locked, and computers password protected, but you can have files out or computer records open with judicious care while others are around. Not everyone around will have completed FERPA training, nor is that required to be in the vicinity of student records–only to be the one handling them.

    Basically–the wife being in the office does not violate normal practice for handling student records. Leaving files out or the computer on while she’s there would be a violation, letting her see them, or leaving a computer positioned so anyone could read what you’re working on, but so would doing any of these with grad students milling about. If the OP perceives a problem or issue about the handling of student records, yes, they should bring it up–but the mere presence of the wife does not mean diddly when compared to the places records are typically used.

      1. Filofaxes*

        Everything Hyaline said. The university I’m at now keeps a fair number of student files in 4 places:
        1. online in a secure cloud intranet
        2. older, paper files are in a locked storage room (accessible by code).
        3. locked file cabinets in an office shared by 2 admin assistants. The office is locked each night and whenever it’s unoccupied (both admins have a key, as well as Public Safety).
        4. locked file cabinets in a locked room (separate building from number 2) while I slowly convert those files to electronic in advance of an upcoming move. Ain’t no way that whole room is being carted over to a new building, I can tell you that right now.

        All of the people above have been trained on FERPA even though we don’t work in the registrar’s office.

        My desk is a receptionist-like area but I work with confidential information (including student records) A LOT on my computer screen and external monitors. If I’m not able to move to an empty office or conference room, I have to make do with privacy screens on my computer monitors. They’re not ideal but like Hyaline pointed out, this really isn’t out of the ordinary–especially because the records I’m working with are already electronic and in secured cloud storage.

    2. Aquamarine*

      Yes, this was the same thing I was thinking as I was reading the comments. Universities would have a hard time functioning if all staff with access to student records had to be completely isolated from everyone without such access.

      It doesn’t seem very likely to me that the wife is viewing confidential records, or at least any more likely than she would be if they both worked from home, which many university workers do, though not at LW’s institution.

      This is a weird arrangement to be sure – not denying that part!

    3. Peanut Hamper*

      Having confidential student information on your screen while a campus tour is going through (and in which you could simply minimize the window if anyone seems to be peering at your monitor) is very different to having someone in the same office as you are all day long.

      Your use of “judicious care” is important here. How likely is a person going to think they need to use judicious care with their spouse? Not likely at all. How many instances of a lack of judicious care does it take to cause FERPA issues? Only one.

      Anyone who has ever worked in public education in the US knows that it only takes one grandstanding parent to cause a lot of issues. This is not a good situation. OP has a duty to speak up, especially as student workers have noticed this and reported it.

  44. Filofaxes*

    “My colleague Fergus has an office in an obscure little corner of the building. We rarely see him come in and out, and he tends to be around for odd hours.

    Recently, a grad student who works at our front desk mentioned that she sees Fergus’ wife Jane coming to work with him quite often. ”

    I don’t know that you all actually have enough to do anything with this, OP. Fergus keeps odd hours and is rarely seen coming by, works out of an obscure area, but yet people see his wife often enough to know that’s coming by regularly?

    IDK. I’ve worked in enough universities (U.S.-based, private, both large and small) to know that honestly, you don’t actually have enough info to do anything with this. And even if you did have a full dossier about both Fergus’ and Jane’s comings and goings, their job descriptions, etc…you still wouldn’t/shouldn’t necessarily do anything with that info. The letter doesn’t mention if Fergus is faculty or staff (unless I missed it) and if their staff, whether it’s a very high-ranking position. That is a whole other wrench to deal with, if so.

    (FWIW, I’ve always worked in admin support, primarily around faculty).

    So yes, my advice is: eyes on your own paper for so many reasons, least of all that you don’t actually really know anything about what’s going on.

  45. VisitingFamily*

    I’ve gone with both of my parents to colleges and hung out in their offices (usually shared) a fair bit. I even went with my dad to his high school every day for an entire summer and a few times during the school year. It doesn’t seem at all odd if the employer is a university.

  46. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    Yes, I’d tell your boss that a student has mentioned this to you and ask how to reply. That is part of your work, supporting students and you are unssure how in this case.

    Grad students have noticed his wife being there and now one has reported to the OP. If I wanted a private conversation with an adviser I certainly wouldn’t accept his wife being present but student me would just have crept away and suffered in silence, even if it was something very urgent.

    This grad student was disturbed and bold enough to report to the OP, so maybe if she sees the OP won’t do anything she’ll report it further up the chain. Students have a lot more power now than in my ancient (1970/80s) day

  47. allhailtheboi*

    Definitely flag it – at my previous uni I needed to speak to my personal tutor (academic assigned to me for pastoral support) as I was in crisis. I went to his office for our organised meeting – and he was like “oh yeah this is my brother, he’s just working in my office. Ignore him!”

    I did not feel comfortable with this random person in the room and never approached my tutor again, even though my crisis led to me dropping out of that uni.

  48. Expectations*

    Both of my parents have been professors for some or most of their careers, I’ve attended school through most of a Ph.D., and I’ve been an instructor myself. I’ve rarely encountered a professor or instructor with a private office. Where is this expectation of privacy coming from?

  49. RemoteSecurity*

    It is extremely common for folks working with sensitive data to work from home, internet cafes, libraries, wherever with a VPN and other reasonable security practices. It’s very normal. I don’t know why everyone’s freaking out about it, but honestly if she takes a modicum of precautions and follows the rules for remote access it’s almost certainly going to be totally fine with her employer. If they weren’t okay with remote access she wouldn’t have it.

  50. DE*

    I think OP number 1 needs to be a lot more specific than they’re being here. I see this a lot online and I hope people aren’t as vague in person as they are here. “Not cut out for the job” is so vague as to be completely useless. You need to be specific if you want anyone to understand you.

  51. I don't work in this van*

    Not higher ed, but someone at my husband’s previous office probably could have written this about me when I was pregnant. My husband can’t do trains, so we would drive to his office, park in his building’s garage, and then I’d cross the street and get on the train to go downtown. When I was pregnant, many, many times I would come up to his office with him to use the bathroom, regularly encountering co-workers. This often repeated on the way home, so someone could very easily see me in the office twice a day. It didn’t mean I was spending all day there, but people would absolutely be able to say “seems like your wife is in the office a lot.” Just saying there could be explanations besides “she’s working in his office all day.”

    1. Dust Bunny*

      . . . unless she’s been observed doing work and is known to be in his office a lot, which seems to be the case. She doesn’t appear to be there just to use the bathroom or to read while he does his own work.

  52. LOA*

    I disagree with the advice, and I think this is a MYOB situation. “Confidential student files” is a thought-terminating red-herring.

    1. Observer*

      No it’s not.

      I hope that you never learn the hard way (ie through a breach of your data) just how bad it can be.

      1. Picky*

        There is an incredible amount of student data, including things like medical accommodations, financial hardship applications, plagiarism charges… things that are private for a reason. “Thought-terminating” means what? That confidentiality doesn’t allow every curious person to know someone else’s private information? I agree with terminating those thoughts.

      2. LOA*

        My information has been breached through the banks and even the credit reports. It sucks. It’s happened to me and it’s happened to you.

        But I don’t think Mrs. Faculty is the culprit.

        MYOB.

  53. SB*

    It’s interesting to read these different perspectives, especially as I work in a highly-regulated industry. A lot of commenters seem to be approaching this like all employers/companies are a common adversary.

    MYOB is not allowed in my work culture. At all. We have to take an ethics training every year that hammers into us that if you have a good faith concern, you need to report it. The ethics people investigate it. They protect your anonymity as best as possible. And if they can’t, no one is allowed to retaliate against you. (That’s an immediately fireable offense)

    And granted, the stakes probably aren’t as high as they are in my industry. People die (sometimes) if the rules get bent or broken. But it’s still interesting to read the other perspectives….it makes me wonder what sort of hell you all have been through.

  54. Picky*

    As a manager at a college, I 100% would expect any adult in my team to report this to me (I exempt student employees as they are not always aware of workplace norms or their own standing to report issues). There are so many red flags here. I am not a big “law and order” type person but I don’t want my college getting sued by an insurance company, having a privacy complaint made, or even just an unauthorized user making use of college resources all day, every day. If it turns out to be nothing–the wife drops off a meal and works from a nearby cafe–then that’s fine. If it turns out she’s working at the college, there is a real problem and it’s worth probing Fergus’ judgement in general.

  55. CanRelate*

    Probably too late for this to drive conversation, but, Unless we know 100% sure what the wife schedule is.. isn’t there a likelihood that either:

    1) She’s not currently employed
    2) She’s part time or contracting and has reduced her hours

    I guess if the concern is that no one should be hanging out in fergus’s office regularly, that part doesn’t matter, but it feels like the assumption that she is working might be baseless without talking to him. Peoples work situations change all the time.

    1. Observer*

      You have a valid point. But that only applies to *her* job. It does absolutely nothing to change the reality of his job. Unless he has, with the knowledge and cooperation of the compliance folks at the university, set up a way to insure that she is affirmatively not creating a problem for students who might need to talk to Fergus and is affirmatively *not* seeing the data he is working with, she does not belong there!

      1. CanRelate*

        This is true, and I can see the point. I feel like if his job was to meet with students, he probably wouldn’t have such weird hours, or the wife would just leave and wander campus if a student needed some privacy. Maybe thats still not enough.

        Its not that I don’t feel like being a narc isn’t appropriate here, I’m just a little curious if there might be a situation where talking to the guy for a minute might clear up some misconceptions that maybe the front desk student couldn’t get in passing.

        1. OP*

          Fergus’ job IS in part to meet with students, and he isn’t supposed to be keeping such weird hours. That’s an issue that his supervisor is already aware of. Truth be told, that’s part of what raises alarm bells for me–he already seems to be taking advantage of the fact that he can slip in and out using a sort of side staircase and seems to not want people to know when he’s in the building. Which is part of what makes it weird that….his wife is also coming along.

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