how do I live down a reputation for being “extra”?

by Alison Green on October 8, 2024

A reader writes:

How does one shake a reputation at work for being “extra”?

Three years ago, I joined my current organization and quickly became known as a go-getter, an innovator, and someone good at their job. Senior level colleagues would learn about programs I had developed, express admiration, and ask to borrow the idea. I won our organization a notable grant that earned a fair degree of local industry recognition. The community partners I worked with gushed about how glad they were I was in my position.

Yet at the same time, apparently a tight-knit group of middle managers branded me as “too much.” And I understand why. I could be outspoken in meetings, at times questioning why we did things the way we did (our industry is known to be mired in “because we’ve always done it that way” culture). From time to time, I would get excited about a potential organization-wide initiative and suggest improvements to a colleague’s workflow, later realizing I was “driving outside my lane” and trying to tell someone else how to do their job. A coworker would ask what was new with me and, instead of responding with a one- or two-sentence stock answer, I would give a longer response as though the question wasn’t just a passing pleasantry. Yes, I recently realized I am somewhere on the spectrum and that these faux pas are typical of a person like me.

Over the past year, I have been trying very, very hard not to be “so extra.” While I have continued to deliver solid work and develop new programs, I have made it a point to do more listening in meetings and try to read the room before offering my two cents. When I notice how some activity or project could be improved, I ask myself, “Is this actually under my purview? Would making a suggestion be telling someone how I think they should do their job?” And then I keep it to myself accordingly. Before I walk into a situation where I might mix with middle management or people I feel I’ve over-blabbed to in the past, I rehearse short, pleasant passing interchanges. I’ve been to therapy and I’m trying to prove to my colleagues I’m a good member of the team.

The problem is, my “too much” reputation seems to have been ensconced in our organizational folklore. I get the feeling that I have been talked about by the middle management clique and have become a sort of running joke. I attended a big department-wide meeting a while ago headed by one of these staffers, and at the end they asked if there were any questions. I raised my hand. Their immediate response: “Of course you have a question.” I felt stung, embarrassed in front of all my peers, and didn’t really know how to react.

A few weeks ago, I worked at an off-site tabling event with another middle manager – one I’d found reasonably friendly in the past – and rehearsed my small talk beforehand and reminded myself that anything foolish or insensitive I said could be shared with others in the organization. And I was so good at the event! I didn’t blab on. I gave appropriate, casual responses to small talk. I kept things light and pleasant. Then somewhere towards the end, the middle manager made some passing remark akin to, “Well, of course you’d say something inappropriate in that situation” or “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much.” I felt completely defeated. I worked so hard to behave so well, only to get stereotyped nonetheless.

How do I rehab my reputation within this organization? Keep on the steady road I’m on, demonstrating I can not say the stupid things I said in the past, hoping that maybe 5-10 years from now I might be well regarded? Just not talk in meetings at all, even when it’s called for? Do my best to avoid the middle management clique? Say something to somebody, like “I’m sorry for being obnoxious in the past and I’m trying so hard to be better – so please stop talking about me”?

I hate feeling like a joke and that people are just waiting for me to make another transgression reinforcing the negative image they have of me. I just want to do my job, embrace the process of doing good work, and not feel like a pariah in this place where I spend 40 hours a week.

Sometimes the easiest way to rehab your reputation is to change jobs and start fresh, because when people are used to seeing you a certain way, it can be very hard to change that — and even if you’re 99% different than you used to be, sometimes that 1% will reinforce their old image of you in their minds.

Not always! Sometimes a sustained, concerted effort to change things works.

But if it’s been a year and you’re still hearing snide comments … well, I don’t love the thought of you staying there and feeling constant pressure to Be Less.

Because the thing is, so much of what you described about yourself are good things: initiative, competence, ideas. And while you’re absolutely right that when those are misapplied, they can alienate people too — regularly telling coworkers how to do their jobs is definitely in that category — there’s good stuff here that I’d hate for you to lose in a drive to make people view you differently. And we know it was good stuff, because it was earning you accolades and admiration. If you stop talking in meetings or stop offering new ideas, you’ll lose that. I understand the temptation — this thing that you thought was helpful turned out to have a double edge you didn’t see coming, and it probably feels like you had the rug pulled out from under you when you thought things were going well, and so it might feel safer to make yourself much smaller — but I don’t want you to over-correct either.

Do you have any colleagues who you trust to have good judgment, the ability to read the room, and a strong familiarity with the various players in your organization? If so, I urge you to run this question by them — not just “how do I can rehab my reputation here?” but “can I rehab my reputation here?” and see what they think. Who knows, maybe you’ll hear you’ve already done it with most people and the middle manager who made those comments is the odd person out and doesn’t hold much influence with anyone else. Or maybe you’ll hear that yeah, you’ve got a tough road ahead if you stay. But they’ll be able to give you a read on how this is playing out in your organization specifically.

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  1. Gem*

    LW, I can’t offer advice but I can commiserate. I’ve been trying to do the same thing for years (really bad ADHD here and it absolutely effects how I communicate) and at this point find myself wracked with social anxiety eight hours a day. Rehearsing small talk can only get me so far and then I’m absolutely terrified to talk any more because I know how loathsome, opinionated and assertive I can come across when I’m just chit-chatting naturally. Has anyone else figured out a way to fundamentally change their personality to become more likable? Because these days I’m at the end of my rope.

    1. Anon and on and on and on and on and on*

      I am this way and I have spent so much of my adult life (I didn’t understand what was wrong with me as a child and always tried to fix the wrong things) trying to figure it out and fix it but it just makes me weirder and more inappropriate and more anxious and more self conscious.

      Then I became self employed to minimize how often I would feel this way. It helps in the day to day as I only interact with a couple of people and I can’t be an embarrassment as much or as badly. But when I have to interact with others – consultants, collateral contacts, other professionals – it is now much much much worse because I am out of practice. Truly hoping for some good insights in this thread because I have already spent my 20s and 30s like this. I want my 40s to have better connections.

      1. Edwina*

        I have just been diagnosed with ADD, and at least I now know why these sorts of things are hard for me, too. I, also, have lately been holding back when I realize my comments would be redundant or telling someone how to do their job. it’s such an effort. It’s helpful to know that with coaching and medication, these situations might become less fraught for me.

        I want to second what Alison said: “… the thing is, so much of what you described about yourself are good things: initiative, competence, ideas.” I hope the OP keeps this in mind while she figures out her next steps.

        And I agree with commenters below about the middle manager’s comments being mean and obnoxious. What a jerk.

    2. DCompliance*

      Well, I have a family member with ADHD and he took some classes on how his brain works and it helped with communications.
      But changing your personality is too much pressure to put on yourself. Better managing our flaws (which we all have, ADHD or not) is a more feasible goal. Good luck to you.

      1. Katrina*

        Appreciate the intention here, but “we all have flaws” really minimizes how hard masking can be for neurodivergent people. It takes up a lot of brain energy and can leave you mentally exhausted after a full day of it. Because all that stuff that occurs naturally to the majority of people (like how much info is too much info, how loud is too loud, what’s the correct amount of eye contact) has to be processed and considered before speaking.

        Yes, we can improve how we communicate, but it’s still something we have to actively be working at whenever we do it. It’s not a “flaw” like a bad habit we can just work our way out of. (And a lot of us have struggled mightily thinking we *should* be able to do that and wondering why we fail over and over.)

        We kinda have to put pressure on ourselves to a certain extent because if we completely ease up and speak how we naturally would, people tend not to like that very much. Yes, there’s a balance to be had, but there’s also the practicality of wanting people to generally like and accept you.

        I don’t mean any of this as a criticism or anything–just hoping to explain the contrast between having a flaw as in a bad habit that can be broken with practice and having a brain that’s wired differently.

        4. Edith*

          For what it’s worth, I read the “we all have flaws” bit more as something for others (e.g. LW’s coworkers) to keep in mind while passing judgement on LW – and a sort of reminder for LW of what a reasonable attitude from others should be – rather than advice for LW specifically. But I’m not speaking for anyone else by any means and I definitely see your reading of the comment.

    3. Thinking*

      I’m sorry, I haven’t found that way. I have tried mightily. What did happen is I moved to another continent and became friends with a bunch of other seasoned travelers. It feels like we all felt a little out of place and because of that we understand each other.
      Yes, my experience isn’t repeatable, except that getting to know other neurodivergent folks sometimes helps.

    4. ferrina*

      I’m ADHD, and I feel you. I’m sending you hugs if you want them.

      You can’t change who you are, but you can adapt how you express it. I have Opinions on certain TV shows, but I turn it into a joke- “oh my goodness, I have lasting trauma from that show! Let’s not get into it- no one needs to hear my rant!”

      ADHD folks are often very passionate by default. Can you channel that passion into something that is more approachable? My channel is listening and taking an interest in other people. It’s a challenge; listening with the intent of true understanding. Many neurotypical people don’t do this naturally either, but I’ve found that by channeling my unending interest in learning All Teh Things into listening, it gets me places. (note: I’ve also been through waaaaaay more workshops in listening techniques than literally anyone else I know. Partially because I teach them). I have a reputation for asking thoughtful questions (literally been invited to meetings because of my questions, not because of my knowledge). I’m known as friendly and approachable.

      The other thing that I’ve had to learn to do is redirect emotional responses. My emotions tend to immediately read on my face, so I’m constantly telling myself jokes to keep me more positive. It helps me give Golden Retriever energy (instead of Border Collie And The World Is My Sheep). For me, it helps to approach work as a non-competitive game. It makes it low stakes, so it’s easier for me to let go of my opinion. My objective isn’t to win or convince you, but to have you walk away with a good experience. It’s a mindset shift, and it’s really helped me.

      Of course, all ADHD is different, so take what works for you! Also- highly recommend the book Dirty Laundry by Richard Pink and Roxanne Emery. It’s about ADHD shame (Rox is ADHD; she and Rich also have the YouTube channel ADHD_love, which is one of my favorite things). Shame is a really, really common trait for ADHDers to have, precisely for the reasons you describe.
      *and of course ADHD me turns this response into an essay!

      1. daffodil*

        “my objective isn’t to win or convince you, but to have you walk away with a good experience.”
        This is so smart. I don’t think I have diagnosable adhd but I share some traits, and enjoy a good infodump. I study and teach communication, so pushing my hyperfixate on effective listening/communicating has helped me build better relationships, much like what you describe here.

      3. Alexander Graham Yell*

        Ahhh Rich and Rox are so good for this! I like myself so much more after watching their content.

        OP, one thing I would also say is – what if, now that you’ve figured out how to be better at the things that needed fine tuning, you embraced how you are? Maybe not in this environment, the well does seem poisoned, but in a new one?

        What if you took the ways you’ve learned to pull back when it’s not appropriate, and the small talk skills you’ve learned, and you apply your passion and inquisitiveness and ability to make connections and innovate with joy in the places where they’re appropriate?

        I’m also often labeled Too Much. I am regularly the first to speak out in meetings (though I aim for about 50%), I have an opinion about everything under the sun, and I found a way to express them that means they’re welcomed on my team. Now, a big part of that is leadership – my bosses actively encourage pushback (thank God, because I once spent a dinner telling our COO all the things I thought we could improve for cross-team communication and lamenting some training processes I felt were underdeveloped). But I also learned to figure out what stage an idea was in to see if it was okay to push back/question it, or if my questions should be more on implementation/how to best adapt to whatever is being rolled out. I regularly tell my boss, “I’m skeptical because of x, y, and z reasons, but if you’re telling me this is what we’re doing, this is what we’re doing and we’ll see how it goes.”

        Now when I hear, “Of course you have something to say,” or, “I knew it” when I start to speak up, it’s said fondly. Sometimes me speaking up opens the floodgates for a team that doesn’t speak up much on their own, which I think is also really helpful!

        I don’t want you to lose the things that can make you stand out in a good way because you want to be less than you are. You can use all of these wonderful things now that you’ve learned to calm down some of the less-socially-acceptable ways to express them. AND you can do it someplace where people are supportive and enjoy it.

        1. amoeba*

          Yes, I came here to say this!

          I feel like I’m definitely at least a bit like LW. I’m definitely always the one to speak out in a meeting/ask questions/make suggestions/etc. And I have heard comments about it, but they were actually largely quite positive! I mean, I also got stuff in my “improvement areas” like “sometimes it might be better if you’re a little more open to others’ opinions in meetings” (ahem) but in general, people – even the self-described introverts – seem to be quite happy to have somebody who speaks out more, etc.
          I was told on my first performance review by my introverted/quiet then-manager that I’m very obviously an extrovert and this actually makes me great fit for the team because you need different types of people for a team to work properly.

          I am also quite sensitive to people suggesting I might be too much (talk too quickly/loudly, etc.). But honestly, while this has occasionally come up, at least in the last 10 years it was almost always in a fond, positive way by people of whom I know that they actually like me.

          So yeah, long story short – I don’t think you need to be less yourself! If you apply some of the things you learned (not telling others how to do their jobs is the one that does stand out to me), I feel like you could be a great fit in a lot of places without changing your entire character.

          And, lastly – I would also make sure that it is indeed a large portion of your current coworkers who feel that way! Definitely second Alison’s suggestion to ask a trusted coworker about that – I’d say it’s entirely possible it’s just one or a few people who feel that way and the rest of the company actually really appreciates your style! Make sure you don’t twist yourself into pretzels to change one bully’s opinion, they’re certainly not worth it…

    5. Georgina Sands*

      Same for me, though I don’t think it’s necessarily ADHD related (though I do have it). I just seem to rub people up the wrong way a lot of the time. Funnily it’s got worse since I became visibly disabled – I don’t know why because I don’t think I’ve changed, but people seem much more likely to take what I’m saying the wrong way or criticise how I’ve said something. But I do have a tendency to put my foot in it

    6. The Good Life*

      LW – I just wanted to jump on the train of ‘I’m having the same problem.’

      The last few years, I’ve been working a ton on reflective listening, not trying to jump it, interrupting, etc. I try really hard to ONLY ask questions during small talk, but now they think i’m nosey. I love to bounce off ideas/hobbies/how-to, but then I come off braggy. We really can’t win.

      The whole thing is extinguishing my flame a little bit. I really don’t love the haters… and I know it’s not a me problem, but it still bothers me. I keep my distance.

      But realistically, I keep getting promoted, bonuses, bigger assignments, so it can’t be all bad! Once those things stop, I’m definitely moving on.

      1. Carla*

        Without minimizing any of the rest of your comment– I notice that you keep getting promoted, etc. The OP is also getting positive feedback from people who aren’t this small group of middle managers.

        I wonder if *part* of the issue is that people are jealous. If you’re achieving more than them, they may be making mean comments to make themselves feel better about themselves.

        1. The Good Life*

          I agree! This clique seems very negative, and yeah, probably a bit jealous.

          LW – keep being self-aware and ambitious. It seems like it’s already paying off. Move on when things aren’t working, but in the meantime, continue to run quiet circles around these people.

          I’m dealt with my fair share of cliques over the years. It’s better to be out than in. Usually they self-destruct because the same behavior pointed out starts to point inward.

        2. been there.*

          it doesn’t really matter if they’re jealous does it? The middle managers are the ones with the power to shape this person’s career. If they’re unhappy, the bosses will just assume “oh well Middle Manager Joe probably knows more than I do about their day to day,” and that means their career will meet an unnatural peak.

        3. Ellie*

          That was my immediate thought as well. OP, are you sure that what you were doing before was really a problem? Or were people just jealous? Because it does suck to be told how to do your job sometimes, but if the suggestions are an improvement, then that’s a good thing for the business and the problem was with them and the way they handled it, not you.

          It’s hard to tell, and I’m neurotypical so I’m not coming at this the same way you would. But I’ve been told to make myself smaller my entire life, and its only with time that I’ve realised those people were never my friends. They weren’t trying to help me, they were trying to put me in the background. But if you work for a place full of people like that, maybe a change of career is the best thing?

        4. Ellis Bell*

          Certainly worth considering, and something a neurotypical person would be more aware of. If this really is a company where they were happily in a rut and not bothering to do anything ‘extra’, they may have just been really threatened by OP. Sometimes you come into an organisation with lots of ideas and you can instantly spot all the flat earthers by their extreme dislike of you. Stuff like “stay in your own lane and don’t tell others to do their jobs” is really reasonable feedback and specific. It is also a common thing for people to get told early career! Now they are just being vaguely mean about you being “too much”? It’s not definitely off, but it is a little suspicious.

        5. Llama Lamma Workplace Drama*

          I think maybe some of it could be Imposter Syndrome as well? I wasn’t diagnosed as inattentive ADHD (ADD) until I was 45. I lived my whole life thinking there was something wrong with me.

    7. roseyposey*

      I don’t have much in the way of insights, but lots of commiseration. Currently dealing with this same thing at work and it is totally exhausting and demoralizing. I’ve found my ADHD means I really want to be direct, but I’ve been told I am too direct which is off putting and can read as scathing, so instead I try to couch things in smiley faces and exclamation marks and pose things as questions a lot of the time. I am working to quell my instinct to share the reasoning behind my thinking, since instead of giving people comfort it seems to alienate them further. Personally I find written communication causes these issues WAY more than a quick video or phone call, because on a call people can hear my friendly tone or see my warm facial expressions (in person is even better but my team is mostly remote). Shifting more of our communication to these platforms has really helped. People are often a bit resistant to it in theory, since it seems like it would be faster to do an email, but my experience is a 5-min friendly call is way faster and less fraught than a series of 15 2-min emails or IM’s. Wishing everyone on this thread a lot of love – it’s hard to feel like you can’t be who you are for 40 hrs a week!

    8. Anon too*

      I’m AuDHD, and I’d highly recommend anyone on this thread look into the “Double Empathy Problem”. There is an expectation on neurodivergent people that we make up 100% of the gap in communication differences, and it’s ok for neurotypical people to treat us badly if we don’t — but why is that ok?
      My best solution is to realise you’re not inherently “wrong”, and that the communication style that works for you will work for a surprisingly large number of people. One thing that can help is to find a workplace where these things are valued and appreciated, which is easier said than done, but for me this means mostly working for/with other neurodivergent people.
      It also means in the interim remembering that you’re not “too much”, your colleagues just don’t get you.

      1. meggus*

        THIS. THANK YOU. Neurodivergence isn’t a disorder, it’s just how we are (AuDHD here). i’m still recovering from severe burnout that has me disabled and unable to work full-time, all because I constantly pushed myself to adhere to allistic norms at work, and make up 100% of the gap on my own because I was always told *i* was the problem. there are far worse outcomes than workplace grumbling when we take on that burden entirely, and/or aren’t given a choice to meet in the middle.

    9. Adhd*

      Adhd female here in my 40s: combination of trying hard and not trying too hard :) medication! Realizing strengths and weaknesses and accepting that no one is perfect and finding spaces where others see and appreciate me! One thing I’ve taken a long time to unlearn, which I learned subconsciously from my mom, never complain…. I mean like I used to do what my mom did with constant “evaluations, comments, just saying, ways things should be better etc” which often is just criticism and leads to a negative spiral.

    10. Boof*

      Honestly, just being willing to pause and listen to people and interact with their agenda goes a loooong way (not the kind of listening that is really “waiting for your turn to speak” either). But that is assuming there is a you problem; it’s also possible there is a them problem. If multiple disparate people find you abrasive then yeah, probably best to work on the interaction skills. If most people think you’re great and it’s a few people who have a problem, maybe run a scenario or two past someone you trust to give honest feedback; but if they are the ones who are being rude then it’s ok to call that out too. I think the things LW sites SOUNDS like the people are being rude, not LW, and I think (besides moving to a place where they fit better) the alternative is just to say it – say “Wow ouch!” or “Dang, we can catch up some other time if this is bad !” etc etc

    11. Weird for the win*

      A lot of this probably applies to me, too. After lots of years of the same kind of self doubt OP is experiencing, I’ve kind of embraced the weird. By all means, focus on things like not telling people what to do (which I also struggle with). But a bit of oversharing? A bit of asking too many questions? eh. You’re a great employee, you do great work. They want that, they get a bit of the weird. Because you cannot spend your whole life policing your own behavior for Normal. Doing so is exhausting, will result in you focusing too much on little “bad” interactions that don’t matter, and will burn you the heck out. keep doing good work, keep being just a little bit weird.

    12. The Difference Engine*

      The best thing I’ve done at work is to to not tone back at all, but to be intentional about where I direct my enthusiasm. I make sure to rave about how excited I am about each my teammates’ projects for an equal amount of time to the time I spend talking about my own. I talk up their skills and gossip positively behind their backs, e.g. ‘Isambard would be great on a project like that if we ever did it! He’s got a background in spherical chickens’, or ‘Did you see the vaccuum chamber that Luigi built the other day? You should check it out’. I assertively stand up for people, and I use my interruption powers to force the conversation back when someone gets steamrollered by others, e.g. ‘Yeah, that makes sense Charles. So, Ada, before we got sidetracked you were saying…?’.

      Don’t even bother trying to dominate a meeting I’m in. If it’s to be a battle of the steamrollers, I WILL win. And the number 1 item on my agenda is making sure that everyone’s ideas get heard. I WILL keep interrupting you until Ada finishes what she was saying.

      Basically, I’m still being myself, I just spend less time wrapped up in my own world.

      2. Lozi*

        Yes!! I love this! I try to do similar things, hopefully they work … I’m always trying to invite in voices that haven’t been heard yet.

    13. lemanbalm*

      I feel this so hard. As someone who was diagnosed late in life with ADHD I struggle with this.

      I know I can come across the same way. I have often been told I am a lot. Now that I am in a new job that has me in person 3-4 days a week and have others on my team with ADHD I have relaxed a bit, but it also makes me think about all the times I do that I might have overshared steamrolled was judgmental or just annoying…. and I cringe. I constantly try to not be too much to fit in… I really miss being predominately remote, where I felt I could manage a lot better.

    14. I am Emily's failing memory*

      I really sympathize, fellow ADHDer here who struggles with occasionally poor impulse control and feels a need to constantly guard myself against oversharing.

      Is there someone in your life who you both really like *and* think handles themself well in social situations? I have a friend like that, Grace, and I can remember times we’d be hanging out with mutual friends and I’d notice how when other people were saying things that I was feeling vaguely bored or annoyed by, Grace always seemed thoughtfully engaged and asked questions that that showed genuine curiosity, and when other people said things I thought were a bit careless or insensitive, Grace always had some way of responding that neither ignored the comment nor called it out too harshly – like she might ask a gentle question about what they meant that would prompt the person to either rephrase more considerately. Despite this, she’s also still someone with a great, witty sense of humor who can be plenty goofy – she’s able to be thoughtful and handle awkward situations gracefully without coming across like a church mouse who’s keeping everything to herself or following some kind of unusually strict moral code.

      I ended up, without really meaning to at first, using Grace as a role model for how I wanted to be seen by others. I especially noticed how, well, graceful she was at moments when other people were mildly rubbing me the wrong way, and I realized that my impulse control issues were especially poor and I was especially like to say and do things I’d later to regret to some extent during those moments of annoyance. Once I noticed that pattern, I began to catch myself when I was starting to feel annoyed with someone else, and I’d ask myself, “How would Grace respond to this?” and it was a little like magic – I could set aside my annoyance and not let it drive my behavior, because I had an alternative guiding principle I could base my reactions on instead of just whatever knee jerk reaction I was feeling in my brain stem.

      Other folks might find that the triggers for their worst impulsive behavior are different than mine, but I think this approach could still be just as helpful.

      This is a hard to express, but because Grace is someone I really genuinely like, relate to in plenty of ways, and have never seen as a stick in the mud, subtly emulating her demeanor in certain situations (ones where I figured out I was most likely to regret my behavior if I just acted on instinct) didn’t feel like I was stifling, restraining, or boxing myself in. It genuinely felt like I was growing, becoming a person who was still everything I already was before, now with more grace and tact! That might just sound like semantics, and to some extent it probably is, but mental framing is powerful. If you feel stifled, you are stifled. If you don’t feel stifled, you don’t. Even if from the outside it doesn’t seem like there’s any difference.

      It breaks my heart for LW to feel like they’re holding themself back and “hiding their light” as the hippies might say. I hope they’re able to find the same kind of balance that I found – a way to adapt their behavior that still feels true to how they see themself, like, “I’m tapping into an undeveloped part of myself that’s always been there, but buried or weak from disuse,” instead of, “I must hold back core parts of who I am to fit in.”

      1. Bobs your uncle*

        Love this approach! I try to do this too. Sometimes it even works. I hope the LW finds comfort from all these wonderful responses, I know I have as a fellow, sometimes too-much, ADHD’er.

    15. Mid*

      I have ADHD, severe ADHD. I’ve spent my entire life being told I was too much. I tried to change my personality. It didn’t work. What did work was accepting that some people will always find me to be “too much” and that’s okay. I don’t care about people’s opinion of me, as long as I know I’m being a decent person. I also worked with a therapist to refine some social skills, but not to mask more or suppress my personality. Radical self acceptance helped me the most. And through that, I learned how to get along better in social and professional situations because I was no longer trying to prove anything to anyone. The hyper-awareness and constant self antagonizing is exhausting and doesn’t actually help you come across better to other people.

    16. TQB*

      Gem – OMG NO.
      No, I have not found a way to be more “likeable.” The very concept is offensive.

      You (and me, and the OP) are human beings. We are all trying our level best to be “good.” And every single one of us deserves a workplace that sees and appreciates both the positive parts of our personalities AND THE OUTRAGEOUS EFFORT we make to adjust for the less positive. We are working twice as hard at all times to fit in.

      I crammed my star-shaped personality into a lot of wrong holes for years. eventually I started my own business because I just figured that was easier than making people like me. A funny thing happened – I started to like myself. Ultimately I folded that tent for an opportunity to work with people who truly value my extraness and my energy. They also value all that work – the fact that I have trained myself to recognize more introverted, different energy people and connect with them. They value my willingness to join committees and work outside of my job to make this place better. They appreciate that because I’ve faced so much judgement and ostracism, I am kind and understanding to others. Ask yourself – have you ever, would you ever dream of treating another co-worker as you have been treated? I know the answer. You’re far too busy obsessing over how you’re perceived to do so. Why don’t YOU deserve that kindness?

      THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU.
      THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH OP.
      There is something very wrong with OP’s work place that it permits people to call a professional something as demeaning as “Little Miss Too Much.” GTFO. That’s disgusting.

    17. Web of Pies*

      LW, do NOT stay in a place where you have to mask this hard!! The things you have realized about overstepping/oversharing are good, but it’s not sustainable for you to continue on in this environment for the long term. There are plenty of other workplaces or work styles that could accommodate you way better, where you’ll be happier, not on-guard, and challenged.

      Your letter could describe past me, and what I found was, I just couldn’t tolerate being stuck in one workplace with all its ingrained politics. I was totally bored, had to constantly stop myself from offering up solutions and ideas like you do, and had to playact every interaction. I couldn’t be my best, I was miserable, everything in my personal life suffered.

      So I left to freelance, and now I have a ton of projects and clients all at once, I’m always busy with a new challenge, never bored, and my clients are way more respectful and fun to be around than coworkers in my previous environments. And if the clients suck? Well, it’s freelance, the arrangement is temporary anyway.

      That may not be a viable solution for you, but consider what you could pivot to outside of your current situation. You’re not ‘too much’, you’re a multi-passionate, dimensional thinker who is in much too small of a pond. You have options! Good luck. <3

  2. muffin*

    While OP does say they don’t like having this reputation, I would ask is it such a bad thing? No one is perfect and everybody has some faults at work. Maybe this is an ok one, especially if they are largely seen as a great contributor, with perhaps a big mouth sometimes – I think that’s ok. If it’s holding you back at work from promotions you want or impacting your raises or something then I would think harder about trying to change the perception or change jobs. But if it’s a matter of just not liking it when people comment on it, I’d say perhaps they feel comfortable commenting on it because you seem comfortable commenting on many things, so you project an openness which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    1. whyblue*

      +1
      There is nothing in the letter about the reputation holding OP back. Does it really need to change?

      I feel like I am in a similar situation in my company, but mostly due to the same action being judged differently depending on gender. I have taken a good hard look at the criticism, found a few things that I did want to change and decided to ignore the rest, reputation be damned. It is not holding me back, in fact a good amount of people like the outcomes I bring. I even make a point of alluding to it occasionally, along the lines of “I know you’ll find me annoying, but can we talk about X?”

      1. College Career Counselor*

        I was coming here to say something similar. LW sounds like someone who has done a lot of work to manage impressions (trust me, most people aren’t thinking “does this need to be said, does this need to be said now, does this need to be said by me” as much as LW is).

        Lean into the positive aspects of the reputation (thoughtful, creative, motivated) and keep doing the self-regulation stuff to keep that from veering into the less-productive realm (offering unwanted advice, veering into someone else’s lane). And let the rest of it be ignored as much as you can. One thing that I have seen be successful is a colleague who became known as being “extra” and got taken less seriously for it, wound up cultivating relationships with different people in the organization (don’t know if this is possible at your org or not). This person had a lot of anxiety around (perceived) loss of reputation and finally decided that whatever the level of reputational loss was, it wasn’t going to define them. So they went out and spent time with other people in the org who valued their contributions and with whom they had common ground. Has gone a long way to reducing that colleague’s professional anxiety and has led to additional collaborative work that has significantly curtailed that person’s reputation as someone who is “too much.”

      2. Nicosloanica*

        It’s true that a few snide comments may not be a barrier for OP’s ultimate success – there’s a world where you view that as Sour Grapes and move on with your bad self. It depends on whether there’s real power behind the concerns, the kind of thing that would hold OP back from future promotions/leadership or not.

    2. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      As a former “too mucher”, this is a bad thing that is likely affecting promotions and responsibilities. Changing perceptions is hard, and even though I backed WAY off of sharing my two cents, the damage was done. I was known as a crap starter because the company said that they welcomed feedback to be more inclusive, but those were just words and were not backed up by policies, support, or actions. Eventually, there was a re-org and I was out of a job.

      I’m sorry OP, I think you have to leave the company to leave those perceptions behind. You might have some luck with pulling people aside that you have good relations with for feedback to improve. Maybe you will get some good advice? But what you really need is a sponsor to vouch for you, and correct those who still say you are “too much;” I don’t know if that is possible based on what you’ve said.

      1. Medium Sized Manager*

        In contrast, I am a reformed “too mucher” and I have been promoted several times within the same company. The variance of why somebody is “too much” is massive and really could range anywhere from “I made process improvement recommendations out of scope” to “I regularly harassed my manager’s manager because I felt the team should get more PTO.” Ultimately, the LW needs to evaluate what is happening to her/in her culture vs. taking blanket statements at face value.

        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          I was leaning toward interpreting the situation as something like this. In the best light, people are frustrated or annoyed or amused (not bemused, they shake their heads, like here she goes,) BUT they admit there is value. They feel like, dangit, I thought I’d looked at all the angles. “I hate to admit it, sigh, but she’s right.”
          My feeling changed with the remark: “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much.”
          That’s not feeling that OP has value. That diminishes her contributions and herself. “Little Miss” is not something you should say about a coworker.
          Little Miss Annoying Habit is definitely not something you say to a coworker.
          It’s more obnoxious in the female version, but Mr. Another Thing, Mr. Actually, Mr. Quadruple Check are pretty bad, too.
          I’d tell those fellows to head out to fresh pastures because the current ones are filled with bullshit.

          1. Rook Thomas*

            Agreeing with this comment —- whether or not people might have feelings about your previous way of communicating/working with them, these statements about “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much” are unkind. Unprofessional and unkind. And uncalled for.

            When I got to that part of the post, I just wanted to reach out to OP and give them a hug. Please consider looking for a position somewhere else, where you can shine and be awesome. @Not Tom is right — move on to somewhere else (and be appreciated)!

          2. Medium Sized Manager*

            It’s definitely an inappropriate comment, but it’s also one person. Is this person in charge of raises? Promotions? Career growth? Influential in other ways? I wouldn’t say this inappropriate comment means she is surrounded by people who see her in such a negative light.

            1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

              The “Little Miss” is one person. The “Too Much” seems widespread. OP has many examples in and outside her immediate group.

          3. Yorick*

            These coworkers are totally out of line. Calling a coworker “Little Miss Too Much????!!!!” And no matter how annoying someone can sometimes be in meetings, it’s completely inappopriate to say “OF COURSE you have a question” when they want to ask a question during an appropriate part of the meeting!

            1. Irish Teacher.*

              Yeah, these people sound like bullies and possibly jealous of the LW.

              Honestly, I think jobsearching may be the best option here, if it is a viable option for the LW because it sounds to me like these people just want to undermine her.

          4. Alice*

            OP, I think that anyone in the org who is making such cutting remarks is probably perceived by others as a jerk. Anyone who thinks it’s reasonable to make such remarks doesn’t have a well-calibrated sense of professional behavior.
            Now, it might still be a good idea to move on – if the org culture centers these jokers, for example – but I don’t think you should necessarily assume the rude people speak for everyone.
            Good luck and kudos for your growing insight and reflective practice.

      2. weelittlemaggie*

        Yes, a SPONSOR! I hit the comments looking for this word. This [i]might[/i] be your manager, OP, but ideally you would find someone more senior than the middle manager cohort, someone who influences those people.

        You want to go to him/her/them for advice on how to navigate this within your organization (if you even can). Hopefully, you’ll build rapport and trust with this person, and then eventually they will start looking out for you, doing things like correcting the record when a middle manager calls you too much.

        Please let us know how it goes, OP! Wishing you all the best.

      3. ferrina*

        Yes, this is likely to impact OP in subtle ways. Not being advocated for. Not being included in conversations. Not being seen as having leadership potential. New folks being given the message to “Avoid this person; they are a lot”.

        That said, I don’t think the answer is to change more. Sure, it’s good to get feedback from a trusted source on what you might be able to improve on, but it sounds like OP is battling against the past. That’s tough to change.

      4. ohrly*

        THIS, so much.

        I work with someone who is too much in almost exactly the ways that OP is describing she absolutely has burned bridges with many people, and has a very negative reputation. She’s seen as selfish and disrespectful and needs to always be the center of attention. People avoid her.

        Right or wrong, this can be the outcome. It can really be costly in terms of lost opportunities.

        1. Ali + Nino*

          Thank you. I understand wanting to be kind, help OP feel better, help OP find another pace where she feels she belongs – all of that is valid. But guess what? If she just moves to a different organization without modifying her behavior, chances are she will find herself in the same bind.
          we don’t have to be cruel about it, but it is also a kindness to be truthful and realistic. The truth is that many, if not most, coworkers and employers will find this behavior off-putting, to the degree that it will negatively impact her reputation and career. Soft skills are still valuable skills, and even if someone is struggling with normative behavior for a totally valid reason, such as neurodiversity, that doesn’t mean everyone around them must accommodate and accept disruptive behavior typically considered impolite, uncomfortable, etc.

          1. nnn*

            She knows that and says she’s been working on changing it for a year. I’m not sure why you’re saying “without modifying her behavior.”

            1. The Difference Engine*

              Looks like they omitted the ‘enough’, as in, ‘without modifying her behaviour enough’. Change takes time. He most annoying traits might only be at 50% ‘modified’, in which case she decide she’s better off waiting another 6 months to get them to to 75% ‘modified’ before she moves.

              1. Irish Teacher.*

                Maybe, but it’s also possible that she has modified enough or even over- modified because honestly, it sounds like at least half the problem is with her coworkers. To me, calling somebody “little Miss Too Much” is indicative of far poorer behaviour and social skills than anything the LW has done.

                And while I understand that sometimes it is professionally necessary, the idea that neuroatypical people should modify their behaviour 75% of the way and neurotypical people have no obligation to modify at all can be harmful. I’m not saying that to criticise anybody here as I know people are addressing how things are rather than how they should be and it sure doesn’t sound like the LW’s coworkers are familiar with the double empathy problem or would be in any way open to recognising her communication style is as valid as theirs and that it’s about both groups adapting to meet halfway.

                But! I don’t think this is necessarily going to be true wherever she works. It is thankfully no longer true that neuroatypical people have to adapt 100% to neurotypical behaviour in order to succeed anywhere. I’m not denying we still live in an ableist world, but the LW’s workplace seems extreme.

                I have a colleague who could at times have some of these traits – tends to interrupt, talks really loudly, sometimes butts in and takes over other people’s responsibilities, goes on lectures about topics of interest. She is very highly regarded as she is an extremely kind person and exceptionally good at her job. She has some quirks – I suspect she has ADHD – but so what? That’s not bad. It’s just different. And it would be pretty unreasonable to benefit as a workplace from the positive sides to that – her willingness to row in and help with everything, her tendency to hyperfocus on and learn everything even vaguely relevant – people ask her about new developments in THEIR subjects sometimes, – and so on – and then criticise the parts that can get irritating.

    3. Owl-a-roo*

      I agree! I’ve been in a similar boat to OP at my own workplace, and it’s far easier to just own it and know that I’m not going to get along with everyone. In all-staff meetings with our VP, if none of our 200ish department has any questions, she occasionally specifically asks me if I have a question. I think it’s a fine reputation to have! I’ve also experienced the soul-searching of realizing that I sometimes step on toes, but I trust people to tell me when I do and have learned how to refrain from offering advice on things that are nowhere near my purview.

      One of my previous managers complained that I wouldn’t stay in my lane. This person has since been moved to a different “manager” position that doesn’t have any actual direct reports. The managers I’ve had since then appreciate my initiative and consult me on projects and big decisions. Other teams value my insight and come to me with complex problems because they know I can figure things out.

      It sounds like you don’t report to any of these middle managers, so you don’t need to worry about them! That middle manager’s comment could have warranted a deadpan stare with “that’s not very constructive or helpful. Can you explain what you mean by that?”

      A final thought: I became outspoken and driven at work because I observed other women in my workplace behaving in the same manner you’ve described here. They are all kickass employees who Get Shit Done. I am now a kickass employee who Gets Shit Done and do my best to model that behavior to new employees at my organization. You may well be inspiring the next go-getter at your workplace!

      Ignore the haters, remember that we all have flaws and can’t get along with everybody all the time, and keep shining brightly.

      1. Burning Burner*

        You’ve touched on something important here: being outspoken and driven can be acceptable so long as it’s the way that other well-respected women at your organization behave. I’m not sure what’s going on in OP’s organization, but it’s dangerous to shine brightly if it’s too far outside cultural norms.

        2. whyblue*

          This is so sad…”being [yourself] can be acceptable so long as it’s the way that other well-respected women at your organization behave.” I wish it said “people” in there, but I also feel that many times there is still a different standard for women’s behavior.

          My direct supervisor gets away with 15 min, off-topic, profanity-ladden rants because “that’s just how he is”. I get told off for being “abrasive” for politely but firmly interrupting these rants to get work done. *shrug*

    4. Dust Bunny*

      It’s sort of context-dependent. Is it inherently a bad thing? Not necessarily. Is it a bad thing if a recalcitrant workplace won’t let it go and refuses to revise its vision of you based on your current behavior? Yes. And if it’s them it may not be something you can fix.

      I don’t absolutely know that the LW’s workplace is like that but from what we have here it doesn’t sound very promising.

    6. ScottW*

      Yeah. I can’t speak for their workplace culture, but this has always been me too. Like forever. And yes, it clearly alienates some people. When I’m quiet in a meeting, my last two supervisors have asked if I didn’t have something to say :-). But I’ve also been told repeatedly that I’m their most productive employee, I’ve gotten tons of bonuses and raises and as much promotion as someone in my role can. I can’t change my basic personality so I’ve learned to lean into it. And while occasionally managers have said “You shouldn’t have said that”, they’ve also told me that they appreciated my bringing up things that no one else would. Maybe this isn’t the right culture/job for the LW, and sure, it’s good to dial back the “extra” where that feels authentic, but you’ll never have everyone like you, and trying will just make you miserable. My guess is that people admire you and see you as a strong person and you’re overestimating the importance of offhand remarks.

    7. Smithy*

      I think this is a situation where taking a step back to talk to mentors and people you trust in your networks both inside and outside of your employer is really important. Because while I think this could go either way, I do think the OP having confidence in their chosen path is likely the most important part.

      I know that this was a reputation that my mom had a work, and ultimately she was in a situation where she worked at the most prestigious employer in her field in the city where we lived (if not beyond) and due to my father’s job, we weren’t moving. So while it was worth it for her find a way to work with that reputation at that employer, addressing the worst of those traits, and embracing the strengths.

      Flip side – my field is one where changing jobs a bit – particularly earlier in your career is not a bad thing. It usually helps expedite promotions and pay raises, as well as exposing you to far more ways to working in our field than you’d see staying at one employer. So these moments of where you’re looking a addressing a reputation – moving on can just be a net positive. Certainly you can push through and try to change your reputation, but for our sector the net gain just might not be worth nearly as much as moving on.

    8. Yadah*

      Except OP’s reputation isn’t *just* for being too open and having a big mouth, they have a history of overstepping, micromanaging colleagues and questioning people’s ideas and workflows that are a part of that “too much” reputation too.

      It’s like that episode of Brooklyn 99 where Amy finds out that everyone tried to avoid working with her when she was new because she was overbearing and overzealous.

      If your reputation boils down to “talented but challenging to work with” then it’s worth addressing.

      1. Who Plays Backgammon?*

        thanks so much. been on the receiving end of this in my current spot. not pleasant, and depending on your own standing, it may not always be comfortable or even possible to let someone else know you’re navigating your own lane just fine.

        My firm treasures outspoken extroverts. It’s tough if you’re neither.

    9. samwise*

      Can’t agree here. They aren’t seeing OP as open — they’re seeing OP as the person who’ll say something inappropriate.

      1. linger*

        “inappropriate” is covering a lot of ground in that boss’s evaluation too.
        Some of it may relate to perceived overstepping on other people’s areas of expertise. Which OP is aware of and is actively trying to minimise.
        But Boss also sounds like they think any public statement of any potential flaw in a plan, or any proposed improvement, is automatically “inappropriate”. Realistically, what’s OP to do about that? Does this mean that they must squash all such impulses in public? That seems a waste. It would be preferable for OP to test their ideas out and try to gain support first in private (aka doing nemawashi). But that only works if OP can get advance notice of these topics; not if they’re first being introduced as a fait accompli in large public meetings.

        1. Zoe Karvoupsina*

          I think the issue might be that they’re first introduced to OP as a fait accompli. That might not be the first time they’re being brought up! And possibly the answer would be ‘wait until after the meeting, check with colleagues, don’t sound off without background you might not have’.

          My org recently brought in an idea that is ill-thought out. What my colleagues and I did was wait until after we’d been told about it, check in with others (Did they ask you about this? Do you know how they’re handling X?) and only then check in with senior management. It might easily have been, though, that I went to my colleague and was told “Oh, they’re mitigating through X, Y and Z, they just didn’t have time to say it in the full meeting because it’s only relevant to two people” in which case my asking about it in the full meeting would have made me look tone deaf.

    10. SRB*

      I agree and I also feel this is one of the rare occasions I disagree with Alison. Those comments are absolutely inappropriate. If I witnessed that behaviour in a meeting I was running I would be nipping it in the bud. It does sound like OP has gotten carried away before and that they have rubbed people up the wrong way, but the way their colleagues are handling it is totally wrong. It doesn’t sound like anyone has taken OP aside and provided any feedback or coaching, and it seems OP has had to figure this out themselves – credit to them. Instead, it seems that mean spirited comments are the method of feedback and a way of punishing people who have committed previous minor transgressions.

      To OP, figuring out how you can stay true to yourself, but being the best version of yourself is a life long journey. Learning how to harness your strengths and improve your weaknesses so that you are constructive and effective takes a lot of time and effort. Sounds to me like you’re doing a pretty good job of starting that journey.

    11. Zeus*

      She’s getting snarky comments about it that are making her uncomfortable. Calling someone “Little Miss Too Much” is too far, even if that were considered to be a good thing – and apparently at this company, it isn’t. Whether the fault is with the LW or the company is another discussion, but I think it’s fair to expect that the LW is being reasonable in wanting to rehab her image.

  3. Pottery Yarn*

    Why not pose this question to your manager? Talk about the work you’ve been doing to make corrections, find out if they’ve seen those changes, and ask if there’s anything else you could be doing to improve in those areas. If your manager is happy with the way you’ve been progressing, they can make a point of calling out those negative comments when they come up and/or provide public praise when it’s warranted to help rebuild your reputation with you.

    1. Walk on the Mild Side*

      I was thinking the same. I work in a place where “replaying old tapes” is the norm, and am guilty of it myself. It took someone calling out that so-and-so didn’t exhibit that behavior to them for me to question were they truly still behaving that way, or was my own bias getting in the way? After a lot of self-reflection and observation of their current behavior, I realized they had responded to feedback and changed behaviors, and it was me who was responding to what had been, not what was current.

    2. Successful Birthday Rememberer*

      Your manager is a great start, and so is a mentor. They can also help keep a pulse on things and advocate for you.
      Those snide remarks from people are maybe more of a ‘them’ thing and not a ‘you’ thing. At my company (which can be so effing toxic), this would never fly. There’s definitely a culture element at play making this harder and it doesn’t have anything to do with you.
      As far as difficult coworkers go, I would take you any day over people who aren’t as driven, smart, and hardworking.
      I feel for you – you deserve a better working environment.

      1. Csethiro Ceredin*

        I agree – this is not an ok way to speak to a colleague. If they think it’s good-natured teasing or assume OP will not be hurt, they’re in no position to judge anyone else’s social perceptiveness.

        Making a boss/leader aware of OP’s efforts, and how demoralising the comments are, may help here, and I hope it does. But overall it seems like there are some mean people at this office.

        1. Great Frogs of Literature*

          I agree. Whether or not OP can rehab her reputation here, several of the people in power here are mean, and I think OP will do better in an environment where people are making an effort to be kind.

    3. learnedthehardway*

      Agreeing – there’s a lot of self-insight that went into the OP’s realization that they were being a bit too much, and they’ve made a concentrated effort to dial themselves back to a point where they shouldn’t be perceived as being “extra”. It’s time to bring this to their manager’s attention, point out that they’ve realized these things about themselves and have made changes to their demeanor / presentation.

      The OP might phrase this as asking for advice – point out that they’ve dialed themself back, but a) they need to balance being dialed back with still being able to contribute, and b) that they’re getting snide comments that reflect how they were in the past.

      It’s possible that the OP isn’t as dialed back as they think they are, but I think it is more likely that they’ve been typecast and that they need their manager’s advocacy to get other people to realize that they have matured and grown professionally.

      If the manager says they are still too much, then I would reevaluate whether more dialing back is needed. But odds are the manager will see that the OP has matured. Hopefully, the manager will put in a word on behalf of the OP to cause others to recognize this as well, but if they don’t or if they aren’t effective, then I would agree that it’s time to find another organization that appreciates initiative, process improvement, and good ideas.

    4. Dust Bunny*

      Fifthing, or whatever, this.

      Obviously, I think they should give you another chance, but you might have to do a little more go-getting to achieve that.

    5. Elbe*

      Agreed.

      The letter leaves out a few important details. 1) Did she notice the issues on her own or did a manager speak to her about it and 2) how long ago did she start making changes.

      If the behavior was severe enough that a manager stepped in to correct it, it could be a larger problem that will take more time to fix. In my experience, the more negative an impression is, the longer it lasts.

      Even if the LW noticed the issue on her own, speaking to her manager about it is a good idea. It would be great to flag it to that person, who could then notice the changes and proactively speak about her to middle management. Most managers would be thrilled to brag about how their challenging-but-amazing report is now just amazing. The manager should also be made aware about the nasty little comments being directed at the LW. Those are just insults, not constructive criticism, and a decent manager would want to shut them down.

  4. Somehow I Manage*

    OP, I’m sorry you’re in this position. I know someone who is in a similar position and it is really tough because they’re very good at their job and they want to see things moving forward rather than languishing from meeting to meeting. And they get the eye rolls and pushback too. It sucks, and I hate this for you.

    In addition to a trusted colleague, if you have any sort of regular 1:1 with your manager, I think I’d ask them too. You can offer the recent example you shared about the tabling event. It doesn’t sound like you said anything inappropriate, yet the middle-manager still made a comment. That comment is as rude and inappropriate as anything I could imagine you’d said. Ask your manager if you can rebuild your reputation, and then ask for suggestions.

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Reading what the LW said about the type of comments they’re receiving definitely led me to give some side-eye to management. That type of mocking of a subordinate – in public, no less! – is totally inappropriate. That’s not gentle teasing among friends, it’s just being a jerk. LW, do you want to stay in this kind of environment or would moving on to something else be beneficial? Ideally somewhere that has a lower number and proportion of jerks.

      I wonder how much is the LW being “too much” and how much is a counter-reaction from people because of the “this is the way we’ve always done it” culture. Because I think both are at play. Some people seem to treat questions or suggestions for change as an attack, no matter how politely and appropriately you phrase them. The “of course you have a question” response really drives this home, I think. They asked whether people had questions, the LW had a question, then management made things uncomfortable. Even though it sounds like the LW generally has good questions and suggestions that add value to conversations.

      1. Code Monkey, the SQL*

        I would suspect this as well. A go-getter in a space where the dominant feeling is “we don’t do that here” might very well draw overly-harsh critique. And frankly, the “Of course you…” comments are pretty uncalled for, especially as a public callout.

        I applaud the LW for self-examining and building the social muscle to switch modes between full enthusiasm and polite disengagement, but I don’t think that change will be enough to satisfy a culture that only prizes the status quo. I think there are a lot of workplaces that would love the LW to pieces (mine included)

      2. Kelsi*

        I had the same reaction! I was a bit surprised Alison didn’t mention it but I figured she wanted to focus on the “don’t dampen your great qualities by overcorrecting” message, which is an important one.

        But yeah, the “of course you have a question” was…a little unprofessional, but I can see how someone would mistakenly believe it was all in good fun/teasing someone in a friendly way. But at the event? I know OP was paraphrasing, but either of those comments would be way inappropriate coming from anyone, and even more so from management.

        OP, you deserve better. You deserve management that can politely and professionally tell you if there’s an area you need to improve in, not mock you in public in mean-spirited and unhelpful ways.

    2. Anonym*

      Yeah, the reactions OP is describing are really unkind and unprofessional. So while it sounds very worthwhile for OP to continue refining their approach (not being Less OP, as Alison so beautifully articulates), it’s important to assess whether they WANT to stay at a place where people who hold power over their career are so crappy. No one should be treated so nastily. I hope there’s a different organization where OP can flourish and be supported.

      1. duinath*

        Yeah, I hope LW moves on to somewhere people aren’t so… well, mean, frankly.

        It sounds like LW has a lot to offer, and I think there are other places that deserve it more.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          Me too! I had a few “too much” comments for those colleagues mentioned in the letter; those were rude and belittling statements, full stop, LW. You are not to blame for the bad manners of your coworkers.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Absolutely.

        OP, you can’t measure your success on convincing this middle-management clique that you’ve changed. Given the comments they’re making, they have no room to criticize you for saying inappropriate things. Name calling (?!?) a subordinate (!!) should never be part of a functional work environment.

        Also, I agree with Alison that it sounds like you’re putting too much work into being not-you. Someone who gets tons done and has great ideas but sometimes steps on people’s toes is actually a pretty great reputation to have (unless you’re specifically aiming for a role that involves a lot of tact and politics). Oddly, acknowledging and leaning *into* that reputation (“I had an idea about [process], but please let me know if that’s out of my lane” or “Feel free to interrupt me if I’m rambling”) can make it less of a problem.

        1. Techie Boss*

          I 100% recommend the leaning in thing. While it can be good to recognize when you’ve gone too far, hiding these parts of you completely will be both bad for your own self-worth and make you less effective in your job, it sounds like. Figuring out whether these ridiculous comments are a widespread perception or a few isolated jerks will also help you figure out if you’re in a company with a toxic culture that doesn’t value neurodiversity. There are places that would be very excited to have an employee like you, and if this isn’t one of those places, go find one that is and be you.

  5. Not on board*

    “Well, of course you’d say something inappropriate in that situation” or “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much.”

    A comment like that from a middle manager isn’t appropriate. I understand that the OP was being “extra” before but a manager provides feedback about that specifically and refrains from snide remarks because it’s unprofessional. Also, a lot of places have more tolerance for people who are high performers and produce exemplary work so you’d think they would take that into consideration.
    It is very hard to convince people that you’re not the same person you were before, whether that’s people you went to school with, people in your neighbourhood, or a workplace you’ve been for a certain amount of time.

    1. Bumblebee*

      Yes, I think this might be a time to deploy an innocent, “Why do you say that?” or if you are feeling brave, “What an odd thing to say.”

      1. Oregon Girl*

        I would like to up vote this. I had a much harsher come back in mind ( that mentioned ableism”) but this is an excellent one.

        1. blah*

          Please explain the ableism happening here since the middle manager doesn’t have a way to know about LW potentially being on the spectrum. Either way, the manager shouldn’t talk to people that way as it’s not constructive.

          1. Varthema*

            Because it’s ableist to assume that everybody has the same advanced social skills and that anyone missing a cue is either deliberate or a failing on their part.

            The “little miss” part makes it sexist as well, to my mind. I can’t hear “little Mr.” being used in that way.

            1. House On The Rock*

              Yeah I actively recoiled from “Little Miss”…it’s really uncalled for (as are the other comments, but that is boundary crossing for sure).
              LW, lots of people have offered good support and reinforcement already, but this is not a good environment if middle management treats staff this way and gets away with it. I hope you can find somewhere better that appreciates you for ALL you are!

              1. Elsa*

                Yes, I think in my 20-plus years in the workforce I’ve never heard a comment as snide and nasty as the “little miss” comment. Not to mention a comment like that from someone who manages people! That is really messed up.

        2. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          My reaction to that was similar. This place sucks, is not inclusive and toxic. LW, they don’t deserve you. Take your highly motivated self somewhere that they’ll appreciate you.

        4. Strive to Excel*

          The only reason I wouldn’t include ableist is because I think the manager in this case is an equal opportunity glassbowl. Sexist/mysoginistic, absolutely.

          I don’t think that’s better, though.

      2. asbanks*

        Totally agreed. I was thinking something along the lines of, “Wow, what a hurtful thing to say!” Or, if taking the approach of “being extra isn’t actually a bad thing” that some other commenters suggested, something like “I’d rather give too much than not enough” (in response to the “little miss too much” comment, or something akin to it)

      3. L-squared*

        I assure you, saying that would just make it worse.

        This is one of those sentences that 90% of the time sounds better in your head than it does out loud. And if you already have a not great reputation, it won’t help.

        1. Silver Robin*

          Yeah, and that is generally advice for interactions between peers. This was a manager; that kind of response will likely not have the desired effect because now it sounds dismissive of a superior’s judgement.

          1. amoeba*

            Eh, not *their* manager though, so I’d assume just somebody slightly senior from a different part of the company? I wouldn’t find it inappropriate in that context.

      4. mlem*

        I’d probably go with the shorter, “… Excuse me?” in a slightly shocked tone, if only because that was my immediate reaction to reading the commentary. It’s less direct, but that could make it seem less obviously accusatory?

        Then again, my supervisor had to work with me on tone for years, so I’m not always good at telling what fits.

    2. Strive to Excel*

      Yup, was going to come here to say this.

      The appropriate way for a manager to tell someone that they are being too much is “While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I’d like you to dial back a bit.” Then, when the person has made the effort to dial it back, either say “I see you’re trying – you’re not quite there yet” or acknowledge that improvement has happened and then *drop it*. Making nasty petty comments is bad management, and not indicative of a workplace where OP is likely to do well in the long term.

      And FWIW, if I were an exterior client or a person in the same industry and I overhead the exchanges OP mentioned, it would come across as the manager being off base, not OP.

    3. Big Personality Myself*

      Agreed; that comment struck me as unkind and unnecessary. Were they waiting all day for you to ‘slip up’ so they could get that dig in? If someone is that mean, it’s them and not you.

      1. wordswords*

        Yeah. Like, yes, I think it makes good sense to check in with your own manager and/or another trusted source about how you’re actually being perceived, and I think it’s a solid approach (for lots of people, not just you, OP!) to ask yourself stuff like “is this actually under my purview? do I know enough background here to comment? have I been doing most of the talking at this meeting, and is that appropriate to the context or should I take a step back and listen more for a bit?”

        But it also sounds like maybe some of these middle managers want to have a punching bag to be snide at, or want you to feel small and snubbed so you stop trying to change their process and otherwise make them do work they don’t want to do? I don’t know that, obviously, but I’d encourage you to at least consider whether that might be a factor in some of this “being extra” stuff. Because regardless of whether you’ve gone a bit overboard in the past, some of the things you recount them saying here are awfully unkind and unprofessional, and are the kind of thing you say when (consciously or not) you want someone to feel hurt or self-conscious.

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          This, LW. Because it sounds like at least part of their responses is “we don’t want to have to rethink our jobs.”

    4. Somebody Nobody*

      That was my takeaway, as well. Even if OP is or was waaay too extra, those comments are inappropriate and downright hostile. If everyone is saying stuff like this to OP, they just need to leave. Either OP hasn’t “reformed” as much as they think the have or there workplace is just toxic towards them. Eaither way, there’s not point in trying to salvage things. The well has been poisoned.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        The comment was inappropriate and hostile regardless of OP’s behavior. A manager should never use demeaning nicknames (!?!) or snide comments to correct a subordinate’s behavior, and the fact that they’re doing so points to a toxic culture.

    5. Tess McGill*

      OP, I came here to say the same thing. Openly mocking you like they do is not ok and they are being total jerks about it. I just wanted to give you credit for your self-awareness and your efforts to work on yourself. Not everybody is willing to do that, as demonstrated by your middle management team.

    6. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      on top of this, I want to know what the inappropriate thing is? That’s such an odd phrase that you typically only use in specific instances (like TMI info about bodily functions, boarderline sexual harassment, etc.)

    7. Justme, The OG*

      I would also hazard a guess that a male coworker exhibiting the same behaviors would not be called out as “too much.”

    8. Patty*

      Yes, I came to the comments to say that same- name-calling is unkind and unhelpful. I would be seriously analyzing the workplace culture and decide whether or not they even deserve your hard work!

    9. nerdchild87*

      Yeah I agree. Those comments were incredibly rude and unprofessional. Makes me wonder if in fact those managers are just not very nice ‍♀️

    10. Decima Dewey*

      OP, it sounds like they’ve made up their minds about you and will seize upon–or create–evidence to strengthen their view. You can walk on eggshells for a week, and the first time you relax or slip up it’s back to square one.

      Leaving the job may save your sanity.

    11. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I literally gasped out loud when I read that comment. The “of course you have a question” comment from the other manager was not great, but “Little Miss Too Much” is just a downright nasty way to speak to someone.

    12. STEMProf*

      I came here to say the same. I sit on a working group with someone who is truly obnoxious (likes to condescendingly lecture me and others on our areas of expertise – which are not her areas of expertise), and I cannot imagine ever saying something like that to her. It’s just mean and unprofessional and makes me question those managers’ judgement.

    13. 2cents*

      My goodness, yes. These comments, and also the “of course you have a question” were so unnecessary, passive-aggressive and just overall not helpful.

      1. Butterfly Counter*

        The, “of course you have a question,” comment galled me the most as a teacher. Nothing will shut down questions faster than making fun (however slight) of the first person to ask a question. If I’m explaining something, I want questions to make sure that I’m as clear as I can be to everyone. I don’t want to do anything to discourage that at all.

        So, OP, I would say that for this particular person, it’s less about you and probably more about them not feeling confident enough to answer questions on their presentation and trying to shut down discussion. It’s probably not even entirely conscious on their part: you were just low-hanging fruit to make an easy example of.

    14. Apples and Oranges*

      Had to scroll way too far to find this! These managers are being rude and unprofessional. If OP is doing something inappropriate there is a polite and professional way to mention that and these comments are…not it. While I think it’s great that the OP has done self reflection, therapy and is working hard on their image, they may also need to consider that the problem isn’t them—it’s these toxic managers.

    15. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Yeah–honestly, if anyone is being too extra or inappropriate in this situation, it’s the managers who are reacting like that out loud to OP. You just…don’t say that to people, especially not in front of everyone after YOU asked for questions.

      Like, I can honestly understand if some people got to BEC level annoyance with OP for being extra if OP was derailing meetings telling people how to do things or whatever on the regular when they were new or for a long time before OP now realized what they were doing. But that’s still no excuse for treating OP that way. Like, yes, I have a coworker who *always* asks awkward questions in meetings, and it absolutely drives some of us crazy, especially when the rest of us just want to get out of the meeting. But at least some of those questions have turned out to be good ones. AND! Even when those questions were superfluous, NO ONE treated our coworker like they were terrible for asking questions. I cannot fathom someone thinking it was okay to say what those managers said to you. We all have coworkers who do things that bother us or who approach things differently–that’s part of working with humans. We should treat each other kindly.

      I do think Alison’s advice about moving on somewhere else is solid, especially if those managers have any say or sway over your advancement, OP. You deserve managers who appreciate what you’re bringing to the table.

  6. Kelly*

    These comments your coworkers are making have a strong misogyny vibe. If you were a man, would you just be seen as assertive and curious? A real go-getter? Instead of “Little Miss” whatever? That’s inappropriate to say to a colleague. This doesn’t really solve your problem, but it’s something to think about. I wouldn’t assume this is 100% you. But I agree that you probably need to find another job. This sounds like a culture that doesn’t work for you, and that’s not necessarily a failing on your part.

    1. Silver Robin*

      yeah, the “little miss” broke my heart but also got my hackles up. Because no way would a man be referred to with such language. I cannot even think of a direct equivalent, it would have to be “there you go, being awkward again” or “Captain oblivious” but not “little” and not “miss”. blegh

      1. anon for this*

        Agreeing that this sounds like misogyny. But even in the unlikely event that they *were* prepared to talk about men the same way, it would still be unacceptable.

      2. Sleve*

        “Captain”. So in other words, men get promoted, women get infantilized.

        This is embarrassing. We can do better than this.

    2. Elbe*

      The LW mentions that the comments aren’t direct quotes, but if the tone is the same then it’s super inappropriate. Being so dismissive and condescending is a bad sign in general, but it’s an even worse sign that they’re acting this way when nothing has gone wrong recently.

      If the LW is struggling with professional norms, my gut feeling is that these are not the people she wants to learn norms from. They seem like pretty awful role models.

    3. learnedthehardway*

      Very good point – a significant amount of the problem here is the culture and the colleagues.

      1. Hazel*

        Maybe not all the colleagues but definitely that middle manager clique. Comments like that definitely need to be met with a ‘why would you say that? Or ‘that’s personal!’ Or something

    4. Head Sheep Counter*

      Yeah I was picking up a misogyny vibe too. I’m 99% certain none of this would have been a issue for a dude and that in fact the dude would be the CEO at this point because of it.

    5. I Can't Even*

      This right here. Would they say Little Mr. Too Much? Assertive women are often labeled negatively. I agree with other’s sentiments to counteract these statements that it is “odd” for them to label someone as such. I might even add in “I didn’t think that enthusiasm had negative gender connotations. “

    6. Buzzebo*

      I’m “little miss etc” at my work and it’s 100% misplaced misogyny (I’m out, and trans, my coworkers are at best lazy and I’m too exhausted by everything else to keep correcting at this point). Other teams with a reputation for misogyny treat me the same way as my team, and the teams that don’t love me and proactively engage with me. But my boss and coworkers see me as the problem bc they don’t like the package the feedback comes in. I’ve had to call out teammates directly stealing my words and solutions more than once and had to set up multiple timers to prove I speak the least of all team members but get constantly called out for talking too much (the women on the team just give up when interrupted and I doggedly keep talking, they only talk over the women and me). Everything the LW has said is what has lead to me job searching for over a year. LW this place has bees, get an EpiPen and get out.

    7. lemon*

      Yup, these comments gave me strong misogyny and insecurity vibes, as well. LW’s work was so good it was noticed by senior management, thus making middle-management clique feel insecure. It’s hard to say if this clique dislikes LW because they are actually, at times, extra, OR because they feel threatened by a competent woman. While I definitely understand Allison’s advice to move jobs, you’re probably going to run into insecure middle managers like this at a lot of places. That’s one the biggest barriers women face in the workplace– it’s not the glass ceiling, but it’s the “broken rung” problem, which is getting the sponsorship needed to get onto the management track (the first rung of the corporate ladder) in the first place. If LW can find allies and sponsors at their current organization (or future org), that might be able to make up for a few insecure middle managers.

      1. Sleve*

        I’ve heard of the glass ceiling, but the broken rung is a new one to me. It never ends, does it?

    8. Bess*

      Yes, these behaviors and traits are tolerated more/for longer with men, even when they bother people, and I think there’s an implicit assumption that women should “know better” and a higher standard applied. People feel more free to correct or put down women with these traits.

  7. Hell in a Handbasket*

    The manager who made that comment sounds like a jerk, regardless of how you’ve behaved in the past. I think you could have addressed it in the moment with something like, “I’m disappointed to hear you say that. I’ve been working really hard to change those behaviors. Do you have concerns with how this event has gone today?” Hopefully this would either tell you if you’re still doing something alienating, or else prompt the manager to reassess their knee-jerk reaction.

    1. Laura*

      I am surprised more people haven’t bumped this one up. This would be my move too – you don’t need to tell someone mean anything vulnerable (like “I’m in therapy”) but acknowledging – “I know there have been times in the past when I overstepped, and it’s something I’m really trying to work on.” – that would go a long way for me. I have been on both sides of that conversation and had it go well. This script is perfect.

      The hope is that one of the middle managers could spread it around to the others!

    2. Jessica*

      Yes, this exactly! Ido believe that people can outgrow a bad reputation and wish you the best. I’m sorry you’ve had to endure these rude, demeaning comments.

    4. Lizard Lady*

      I agree with this suggestion. Sometimes people get so used to thinking and behaving a certain way, they need prompting to reframe and reevaluate. Perhaps, too, they didn’t realize you would be hurt by their remarks. It would be good to make sure they recognize that you are. Another upside is that the suggested phrasing tacitly acknowledges your previous behavior impacted others negatively, and you are working to address that (even inviting their input). Whether or not they change, this sets things up to help make it possible.

      I will note that regardless of your past behavior, their comments were inappropriate. They may have been annoyed before, but they have a responsibility to act appropriately, especially in a managerial role. Even if they did not think their words would sting, they likely understand that they were critical without being in any way constructive.

  8. H.Regalis*

    If your trusted colleagues tell you that hell will freeze over before you can repair your reputation here, please listen to them.

    I’ve stayed in bad situations for way too long being like, “Failure is not an option! I just have to keep at it. I have to stay here. I have to stick it out [and somehow this will make things magically not be shit anymore]” and that was a terrible idea and caused me a lot of mental and emotional turmoil for no reason. Sometimes you need to just cut your losses and go.

    Some of the stuff you were doing sounds obnoxious, and some of it doesn’t. It’s a lot of trial and error finding a good balance, whether you’re neurodivergent or not. Don’t stay somewhere that is mentally shredding you. Tenacity is not inherently a virtue.

    1. Not your trauma bucket*

      100000% this. I stayed way too long in a similar situation. I was *never* going to fit in that culture. It caused some pretty serious damage to my psyche. There are other organizations out there that will accept or even welcome you. Go find them.

      1. Aggretsuko*

        I earned a bad reputation because I got thrown onto the phones with no support and no training. I NEVER EVER EVER recovered from that bad reputation after 12 years. It only got worse, even though frankly, I wasn’t actually that bad at it as long as I talked perky and knew what I was talking about.

        OP probably needs to go somewhere where they like the sort of people they are. This place doesn’t entirely like it, albeit maybe some of them do rather than none?

    2. Lily Rowan*

      It’s not even cutting your losses! It’s working somewhere for three years and then moving on to a better situation!

      Changing jobs can be great.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Totally agree. And it seems that OP racked up some excellent resume fodder at this location before their spirit got stepped on, I’m sure they also made enough GOOD impressions that they have some options for references. Nothing wrong with taking the good of the experience and just moving on

    3. goddessoftransitory*

      I agree. LW, you don’t need to prove anything at this point. You aren’t going to solve the magical puzzle that makes your coworkers not treat you badly. They enjoy treating you badly, unfortunately, and you aren’t going to change their minds.

      You are passionate, caring, and want to do a good job! You’ve worked hard to correct professional errors and have not been rewarded for it. To be blunt, this pack of *muttered invectives* do not deserve you.

    5. MigraineMonth*

      I was fired from a previous job for a lack of professionalism (causing interpersonal drama and sending angry emails, specifically).

      At my current job, my manager has specifically praised my professionalism and I have warm relationships with every colleague I work with.

      Starting at a new organization with a fresh slate worked really well for me, and I think it would work for you too. Update your resume with all the accolades and praise you’ve gotten for being driven and creative, and find a new job that isn’t ruled by a clique of snide middle-managers.

  9. VintageLydia*

    Regardless of your reputation and whether it’s warranted, those comments from that manager were way beyond rude.

    2. Not that other person you didn't like*

      Yes, OP, you might be “extra,” but they are rude. If your behavior is a problem, then you should have feedback and coaching in private, not rude comments in public.

      Consider finding a new position that’s both a better fit for your energy and more respectful of differences.

  10. Viki*

    I suppose it really depends on how much of outside your swim lanes you were. I’ll be honest, when there is someone who is brilliant, but just takes over, even their brilliance can be dimmed by how much effort it is to work with them.

    If you were regularly talking over people, telling people how to do their jobs, especially if there was senior leadership in those meetings, even with rehab, that’s still how you would be known in teams. And I don’t know how you repair without leaving.

    1. 2 and a Possible*

      Being difficult to work with does tend to obscure other good things about people.

      Maybe for LW leaving is not the only option. LW could resign themselves to being perceived as being a changed person will take a long time? Only LW can really answer that.

      Being committed to changing but being in the same place while changing does mean you will hear about how you used to be often before long before you stop hearing about how you used to be. It is (sort of) like grief, in that there’s not really a timetable for when exactly things will get better.

    2. L-squared*

      Totally agree.

      I feel like a lot of people are trying to be supportive of OP, but I think what you are saying is probably what she needs to hear. I don’t know how bad it was, but my guess is it had to be pretty bad for people to be openly saying this stuff. Like it seems like a situation where people talked about her to themselves, then people tried some gentle correction, and it still didn’t work.

      So yes, even if you came up with amazing ideas, if no one wants to work with you, that isn’t a problem that will easily be fixed.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        This take is AN option, but there are other options. OP could work in a ‘crabs in a bucket’ mentality office where going above and beyond is a social faux pas, or alternatively (as many neurodivergent adults know) bullies can just smell ND on us and then there is no return.

      2. Hroethvitnir*

        My guess is it had to be pretty bad for people to be openly saying this stuff

        I wouldn’t assume that. The comment you’re replying to is helpful because it has a specific list of behaviours that people will find insufferable for OP to compare to.

        But unreasonable people exist, and where at least one cliquey, unprofessional manager has been allowed to flourish that often is the culture of management.

        I am someone who loves being super productive and getting things *done*, which people tend to love… until it’s their needless layers of meetings and weirdly elaborate systems I want to cut through (even if they’ve asked me to).

        Yes, I get that I have to rein that in, but people absolutely resent you when you get things done when they’re used to procrastinating about it for months if not years.

      3. amoeba*

        “I don’t know how bad it was, but my guess is it had to be pretty bad for people to be openly saying this stuff.”

        Hm, for me it’s actually kind of the opposite – those comments were so incredibly inappropriate (yes, the irony!), rude, sexist, and generally not something a halfway decent manager would *ever* say that it makes me doubt their opinion of LW quite a bit!

    3. Alicent*

      I have a friend just like OP who brags about requesting meetings with the CEO of the giant corporation she works at because she has “so many great ideas!” and has gotten at least 4 Masters degrees that I’m aware of in different areas so she can advance. Unfortunately she has the reputation of being an overeager flake in our friend circle and I can’t imagine what she’s like to work with just based on what she has told me directly. I really don’t think someone with this kind of history can move past that reputation without finding a new job, especially if management is prone to misogynist comments like that. Moving on and getting with a good therapist can make a world of difference.

      1. Elbe*

        I’ve worked with people who thought that their ideas were Big and Important only because they didn’t have the experience and self-awareness to recognize the flaws in their own proposals. Invariably, these people write off any push back as ‘negativity’ and, as a result, never learn from their mistakes. I completely agree that it would be hard to come back from that type of behavior, specifically because so many people have encountered this pattern before and are very aware of how unlikely it is for this type of person to change or grow.

        I have hope for the LW, though, because that paradigm doesn’t seem to fit here. It seems like she’s getting positive feedback from her coworkers, as well, and that her ideas have been genuinely helpful at times. If the issue is mostly just a matter of tact and professional norms, that is definitely something that she can come back from if her coworkers are open to it. LW should test the water and then make an educated decision about whether to invest more time at this company, or to take her gifts and newly-practiced norms to somewhere better.

    4. a clockwork lemon*

      I’d be curious too about that “of course you’d say something inappropriate” comment. Yeah, the middle managers in question were being rude, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that OP is a rockstar who has also veered out of her lane in ways that go beyond just being too vocal about what someone else should be doing in a meeting.

    5. Yadah*

      Yea I’m surprised there aren’t more comments like this.
      I recently worked with someone who very much struggled with the “swim outside your lanes” issues on a contract job. She was incredibly overzealous and it didn’t take long before she landed in the “never hire her again” pile because she overstepped to the point of offending key team leaders on multiple occasions. And because she almost always saw her ideas as “correct” she always came to the table with a “me vs. them” perspective instead of participating in the collaborative problem-solving everyone else was working on – it was exhausting.

      Granted, her work was decent, but didn’t have the quality to back it up in the way it sounds like OP can. But I’ve worked with enough talented but difficult people to know that it’s almost never worth it.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I think it’s because 1) OP has been getting really good feedback about their work in general; 2) OP recognized where they were annoying people and has been making a large effort for a year to correct it; and 3) even if OP hasn’t corrected far enough, the comments she’s getting are so snide and unprofessional it’s difficult to take that feedback at face value.

        1. Burning Burner*

          But the good feedback about OP’s work doesn’t really matter, though. Bluntly, people with political capital don’t like them, and no amount of innovation or initiative makes up for that.

    6. Nasturtium*

      Agreed. I worked with someone with some behaviors similar to what the OP describes. And a lot of her behavior was inappropriate and ate up a lot of people’s time and burned out their patience. And while these comments are filled with people who are seeing themselves in the OP’s position and wanting to offer reassurance, some of the behaviors described are truly going to burn bridges. It is difficult to work with someone who doesn’t recognize boundaries and is too pushy about things that aren’t in their purview, or wants to be too controlling about inappropriate things. I don’t know if this is a recoverable situation.

  11. OhGee*

    Oof, those people are being super rude! They sound jealous of you, and like they’re focusing on you being “too much” as a way to make you feel bad. I’m an ADHD adult, and I am sometimes “too much.” I’m also a high achieving professional. If that bothers people, too bad. It sounds like you’ve made an effort to monitor the ways in which you might need to be perceived as more “professional” and at least one person is still jumping on your “flaws.” That’s a them problem. Keep being you.

    1. Abigail*

      I really don’t like the jealously angle.

      It ultimately doesn’t matter why they are acting this way. They are and it can be really hard to reverse course on something like this.

      2. ThatOtherClare*

        I have several friends with ADHD, and the jealousy thing comes up disappointingly often. They’re all high achievers; two have PhDs, another had started 2 successful businesses by the time he was 30 and brings his current company millions of dollars of revenue per year, another is an ER doctor with a pilot’s licence who designed a paragliding simulator from scratch in his spare time. ADHD forces them to think about a lot of stuff all the time. They can’t turn it off, but it means that they know a bit about everything, and a lot about many things.

        (The only difference between ADHD kids who are considered to have a ‘learning disability’ and those who are considered ‘gifted’ is the dice roll of whether their brain squirrels decide to investigate some fun science toy, or the cool looking culvert at the bottom of their street. They’re all un-directable learning machines.)

        My friends were also all considered ‘weird’ as children, limiting their social interactions and thus their opportunities for social development. They’re often very blunt. When people are already strongly inclined to be jealous of you, and you have a habit of accidentally blurting out tactless things on top of it, people aren’t going to want to rein in their first instinct.

  12. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

    LW, I’m so sorry. As a person with an undiagnosed neuro-something that makes me inclined do many of the same things you do, this hurts my heart to hear about you in this situation. I find myself wishing I’d been there to tell that manager where they can stick their comments. It’s just rude, and nothing you did in the past could warrant that kind of rude response. It says much more about them than it does about you.

  13. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Has your boss or anyone else actually addressed this stuff with you as a performance issue? Because one thing I didn’t see here was your boss asking you to work on A, B, and C so that you come across as X, Y, and Z with your colleagues. What I do see a lot of is a bunch of people making unnecessarily snarky remarks to your face, which isn’t constructive nor productive.

    Not everyone is going to like us and we can’t control those who don’t, but we’re also expected to maintain a minimum level of professionalism in the workplace. Even if you are too much by whatever metric you’re using, it’s ridiculous that people are acting the way they are when you ask a question or describing you as Little Miss Too Much when you made an effort to not be Too Much at an event.

    Interpersonal issues can definitely impact the work that gets done, but I’m not seeing any of that in the letter. I’m seeing lots of people for whom you may be their BEC, but that’s the thing about your BEC: you have to get over it if it’s not actually impacting your work.

    I know this is a reputational concern, not a work product one, but I’m struggling to get past how much your coworkers can’t get over themselves.

    1. HSE Compliance*

      +1000

      Those making comments seem pretty cruel in this – and I agree with a comment up above questioning if these colleagues would be making the same comment to a male coworker.

    2. Sharon*

      I agree snarky comments aren’t helpful: people should be either addressing this as a work issue or keeping quiet about it.

      Maybe, depending on who’s making the comment, you do one or more of the following: state that you’re working on it, apologize if your communication is still an issue, and ask if they have any specific actionable feedback for you? But if you are having trouble reading the room to begin with, it might also be hard to figure out when that’s appropriate.

  14. Juicebox Hero*

    I honestly don’t think you can. The middle management meanies have decided you’re “too much” and they will keep right on thinking of you that way no matter what you do. You made mistakes, but then realized you were coming off the wrong way and are taking steps to change that. That shows that you’re capable of introspection and growth. Meanwhile, with the teasing and the sarcasm, they’re showing that they’re a bunch of jerks.

    A fresh start somewhere else, where you can put what you’ve learned about yourself into action and show your skills to people who have no preconcieved notion of what you’re like, sounds like the best idea to me.

    Don’t make yourself small just because someone else wants you to be.

  15. BellaStella*

    Honestly OP talk to your manager and get them to go to bat for you to help this change, first. And stop being the first person to ask questions in meetings. And keep reflecting on the things as you say and stay in your lane. Document the comments and ask exactly what behaviour triggered the response. After another six months if nothing has changed start looking for a new company.

    1. Leslie Santiago*

      Yes the first question thing is a good one. Try and live by the rule of 3s – be the third person to talk.

  16. Sue Wilson*

    OP I think the advice to talk to your coworkers or your boss is the correct thing to do at first. Not only can you get feedback but sometimes you can get those people to run interference for you/defend you. The fact of the matter is that you usually can’t rehabilitate yourself alone, you generally need someone in your corner.

    BUT if that doesn’t work and you still want to stay at that job, sometimes the correct thing is to be direct and/or to own it.

    “Of course you would have a question.” “Oh I was really interested in XYZ in how it could fit with ABC and I really like how you talked about the Z portion. Is this not the right time to talk more about your program/did you not want any questions?”

    “Oh you’re just Miss Little Too Much”.
    “I do try to liven things up! And I really enjoy the work we’re doing!”

    “Of course you’d say something inappropriate”
    “I’m going to be honest, I’ve never know you to be a rude person but I’m really taken aback by that. What did you think was inappropriate about talking about X at the X industry convention?”

  17. Chrissimas*

    An example of how hard it is to get past a first impression:

    When I first met my friends when I was 25, I was always running late. Not horrendously so but often 5-10 min just for casual stuff. So I got the reputation as “Always Late”. I worked on it and started over correcting and got to where I was always early. For YEARS, I was always early. I just thought people would notice.

    So like 7 years later, I meet up with my friend at the train station and she says something like “Look at you being early!!” Like very friendly but surprised. I finally said “I have been early to everything for years and you just haven’t noticed!”. So over the next few months she would then notice that I was early and she was so shocked that she hadn’t seen it before. It was like a lightbulb went off. And she tells it now as a funny story but also she genuinely just had me coded as always late and it took a concerted effort for her to fix that.

    So, moral there is, this was with people that like me and love me and want me to be happy and if it was this hard for me to get them to notice that minor change, I think it’s going to be very difficult for you to get this clique of what sounds like not the nicest people to change their minds.

    Also if you switch jobs, you get to use this “first impressions stick” thing to your advantage! You’ll make a great first impression based on what you e learned already and then people will code you as “great worker!” and more easily forget the small mistakes you make in the future!

    1. L-squared*

      Your story is interesting, because I had a similar situation, but I was your friend, and my friend was you.

      And yeah, until he pointed out that he actually was always on time (at least when he was alone and not with his wife), I didn’t notice.

      At the same time, I think you don’t notice because its someone doing what they are “supposed” to do. If everything is working the way its supposed to, you don’t notice. When things are
      “wrong” that is when you notice.

    2. MerriadocTylerMoore*

      See also: my best friend is a FANTASTIC, safe, mature, patient driver. But up until recently, her parents acted like she had no idea how to even turn on a car, because she failed her drivers test the first time (age 16). It finally took her husband saying, “You know, that WAS 20 years ago — she’s never even had a parking ticket since. Maybe you guys are forgetting that she’s an adult now?” That shamed them into stopping.

      2. A Simple Narwhal*

        Ah parents. I really struggled with being on time as a young adult, and my parents treated it like it was a huge moral failing in the moment and a big joke the rest of a time. It wasn’t horrendous, but I was routinely 5ish minutes late to a lot of things no matter how hard I tried, and I really tried. I finally got it under control when I met my now-husband, as he was able to point out blind spots I had in a supportive and caring manner. (Surprising that practical help with encouragement and compassion worked better than being yelled at to just “be better”!)

        Even though it’s been over a decade of consistent timeliness, my parents still think it’s a big joke and love to remind me of the time I was late picking up my mom from the train station in college that one time, or get me novelty items that say “running late is my cardio”, etc. I hated that I was late to things and it caused a lot of stress and shame, so this is not fun for me. The real irony is that my parents are often late to things! But they always have a good excuse so….

        So yea, it can be really hard to get a label removed once someone has decided to that you are that thing. (Fwiw everyone else besides my parents noticed and no longer think of me as a late person!)

        1. Alpacas Are Not Dairy Animals*

          My mom was shocked when I got my first tattoo at *30* because she pegged me as someone who overreacts to pain because of my reaction to a splinter I got when I was *3*.

    3. Ally McBeal*

      It really is incredible how lasting impressions are formed so quickly. I had a colleague insist, while staring straight at me in an in-person setting, that my hair was red when it was very clearly brown. I’d been a (fake) redhead for the first couple months I worked at that job but stopped maintaining it not long after. 2-3 years later she still thought of me as a redhead.

    4. Nicosloanica*

      Yes, this times 1000. It could be malicious, but it also doesn’t have to be – this is partly why I find starting a new job soooo stressful. You could be late all the time if they already have a good impression of you and it won’t register, but lord forbid the new person be late once.

  18. Dawn*

    This is just my personal experience, but I chose (have chosen?) to own it. (For the record, I’m well on the spectrum as well and I know exactly where you’re coming from.)

    When I get that, “Of course you’re asking a question,” my response is along the lines of, “Of course I am! You knew I would.” I’ve made Being A Little Extra part of my thing, and yes, it can be polarizing, but my favourite managers have always appreciated me for who I am (and the fact that they can always count on me to start the conversation.)

    So. I know that your question was about how you can get past the reputation, but my take is: own it. When you confidently take ownership of who you are (or who you’ve been, it’s understood that you will experience personal growth and not always be that exact person,) people very quickly get over pointing it out and you’ll even find yourself with friends and allies who like that aspect of you.

    1. Elbe*

      I think it depends on just how negatively her behavior affected her coworkers. If it was mainly just awkwardness, then not dwelling on it too long may be the route to take.

      If what she was doing actually hurt her coworkers or offended people (stepping on toes, not taking no for an answer, being disrespectful, etc.) then “owning it” will only seem like doubling down, and it will take away her chance to highlight the positive changes she’s made.

      1. Yadah*

        +1000000
        I’m seeing WAY too many people telling OP to “own it” and “people are just mean” without considering that OP may very well actually be ‘too much’
        We see countless letters of people looking for advice on dealing with overstepping colleagues and micromanaging bosses – we have to remember that it isn’t always a malicious act and just because the OP comes across as sympathetic doesn’t mean that they haven’t been a challenge to work with.

        1. Strive to Excel*

          The commenters are sympathetic to OP because of the *way* in which management are addressing it. If OP wrote in saying “my manager keeps telling me I’m overstepping”, it would be different. But OP wrote in saying “I am really working on trying to not overstep and instead of giving me any support my management is actively mocking me about it”.

          Yes, OP might still be overstepping. But she’s not going to get good coaching in soft skills and the finer points of office politics at this workplace.

          1. amoeba*

            Yes, this! (Although I sincerely hope it’s not LW’s management but rather some other random middle managers at the company? That’s how I read it, if it’s her direct boss, it’d be so much worse!)

        2. Dawn*

          I would argue – having been this person – that you can both have been too much and still own the person you are now. It’s really common and easy to self-correct too far in the wrong direction; I don’t want the OP to bottle herself up in response.

    2. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

      I agree! I was diagnosed with ADHD just a couple years ago, so it explained why I’ve been Too Much everywhere, my whole life. It’s a handy shorthand now, but I’ve always made a point of saying “Yeah, I know I’m a lot, tell me something I don’t know.” There are a few specific things I’ve done like:

      1. Focused on competence – I can be loud and talkative, but I also get shit done (usually faster than anyone else – thanks ADHD lol)
      2. Really really really focused on reading the room – this is partially a trauma response from being Too Much as a child, but I work really hard to match people’s energy. I still sometimes don’t nail it, but it definitely helps to use their energy as a guideline!
      3. If I’m trying to relate to someone’s experience, I tie it back to them. I didn’t realize that trying to relate to someone else with your own similar experience is a very common ND thing to do, but neurotypical people tend to find it off-putting because they think you’re making it about you. So if I’m sharing my experience I immediately, directly tie it back to their situation, so it’s clear I’m relating to them and not trying to hijack the conversation.
      4. Accept that some (neurotypical) people just won’t ever accept you, and it’s their loss. This can be soooo hard, especially if you have issues with Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (aka RSD, another common ND trait). But some people just will not vibe with you on any level, and that’s really ok! In that situation I honestly avoid them (while still remaining civil) and let my skills and positive attitude do the talking for me. It really sucks when the person being the Too Much Police is your boss/ middle management though, so if those people can impact your career growth at all, maybe you should move on because it sounds like those managers may never accept you.

      All that to say (sorry this is so long, I’m not beating the Talks Too Much allegations lol), being authentic and being confident in yourself is the best way to handle it. These managers are trying to hurt your feelings on purpose – and nothing makes nasty people angrier than their insults bouncing off of you. If someone says “Of course you have a question,” smiling and saying “Yep, you know me, I always love getting the nitty gritty details!” (or whatever fits in your situation) takes the wind out of their sails. If someone called me Little Miss Too Much I would shrug and smile and say “I’d rather be Too Much than boring!” and let them stew a little lol. (Might not work for managers, but for coworkers I would 100% be petty lol.) Sending you hugs, I know this is so hard to deal with!

      1. Dawn*

        Yeah, that’s, uh.

        I didn’t really want to highlight my full suite of ND stuff but you’re pretty much telling my story, haha. I get all of this so hard.

        And at least for me, I think that’s the best thing I possibly could have taken away from it: to say, yeah, this is me, this is how I am, I’m fabulous, and here’s how it benefits both of us.

          1. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

            Ahh, I’m sorry, I just realized that my comment made it seem like I was telling you what’s what when I really was trying to give a pep talk to the LW. Sorry for preaching to the choir!! I’m sorry you’ve dealt with RSD too, it’s seriously brutal! An acquaintance and I don’t mesh well, and even though I don’t like her I still felt bad that she doesn’t like me. Make it make sense lol. Oh well, it’s their loss really, cause we’re great!

            1. Dawn*

              No your comment didn’t seem that way at all because we are very similar people! I would totally respond to me the same way.

              And we are great!

              1. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

                Oh phew, I had a moment of “Oh no, did that sound super bossy?” (I’ve been called that a few times too lmao.) It’s such a relief talking to people whose brains work like yours, so I really appreciate it!

                1. Dawn*

                  Same! It’s very hard making friends sometimes when you’re Not Like Other People and I really appreciate the people who do get it.

            2. Dawn*

              Side note, someone I’ve been (online) friends with for about 8 years completely ghosted me a couple months ago because I asked her to please stop sending me so many things from Tiktok (which I don’t use.) I’m still not over it.

              1. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

                omg, imagine being so fragile that a friend setting one (1) boundary is enough to blow up an 8-year friendship! Over Tiktok! Idk what it is about Tiktok that makes people so pushy, cause I also have a friend who peer pressured me for MONTHS to get it even after I told her multiple times it triggers my sensory issues. (She also has ADHD so you would think she’d get it.) She still sends me tons of Tiktoks, so I 100% get how annoying it is. I’m really sorry about your friend!! It really is their loss, but I know it feels really shitty. Sending you internet hugs if you want them!

                1. Dawn*

                  Thank you! Like you, I am not much of a video watcher myself; I’ll almost invariably favour a transcript over AV content. I don’t want Tiktok, and when I asked her to stop sending me videos, she started sending me screenshots instead – which made zero sense without context and were just confusing to me.

                  Honestly, I had real concerns about Tiktok and Instagram even before this, but it just really solidified for me that I think that these “constant content” sites are bad for people.

                  Nothing to do with who owns/runs them, even; I just frequently see people, especially younger people, becoming completely consumed by them and, I think in this case demonstrably, people become attached to them to an unhealthy degree.

      2. Yadah*

        It’s a little tangent but I want to just drop a thought surrounding your point #3
        NT people typically have no problem with relatable stories to share someone’s experience but for them it’s a natural instinct to tie it back to the person they’re trying to relate to.

        It’s not the sharing of stories that’s a problem, it’s just that it’s so easy for it to come across as changing the subject or making it about yourself without the intentional effort of bringing the focus back onto the other person.

        So good on ya for noticing that and putting in the effort of thoughtful communication!

        1. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

          Yeah, I think it’s the classic ADHD brain thing where I jump from Point A to Points B, C, and D, but I only say D out loud, so other people are like how did you get from A to D??? So to me, I was relating to them and didn’t realize that the tie in to the other person was implied/ happening in my brain.

          And thank you, I found out that there was a communication issue in a not-so-fun way, but I’m glad I know so I can communicate better now! :)

        2. Higher Ed Cube Farmer*

          Thanks Yadah, I’ve observed similarly that NT people often have no problem with relatable stories to share experience as long as it doesn’t pull focus–and ND people don’t universally love being on the receiving end of a “relatable story” that misses the mark. Balancing the needs of people in conversation is a skill or talent that some folks of all neurotypes have a natural talent for while others naturally fumble it unless they practice deliberately.
          I join you in commending No Longer a Bookkeeper for recognizing that’s a skill that can be learned and putting in the effort to learn it. And for recognizing that some people just will not vibe despite every effort from both sides, because they have incompatible personalities or communication styles, not because either one is a poor communicator or mean or whatever.

          Sometimes it’s enough to just be cordial, as accommodating as you can without disadvantaging yourself, and let go of the need to feel comfortable, friendly, close, or liked.

    3. Ally McBeal*

      Yeah I’m in the same boat, although I haven’t had an ASD evaluation and don’t think I’m on the spectrum. I just have less of a filter than others and put my foot in my mouth more often than I’d like (those full-body shame convulsions like to hit at night right when I’m trying to sleep. fun!). But my colleagues have told me they appreciate the questions I ask during meetings and my managers tell me to keep asking – right place right time of course, which is the tricky part, but I do my best.

      1. Dawn*

        Just gonna say, you may not want a diagnosis, and you may be right that you’re not ASD! But there’s lots of other ND conditions and if you’re experiencing “full-body shame convulsions” then, uh. You might be more ND than you think, and sometimes knowing helps you to deal and develop better coping strategies.

        For the record: I don’t have a formal diagnosis (because I’m on HRT and formal diagnoses could potentially put that at risk somewhere down the line with a hostile government) but INformally, I’m definitely what’s frequently referred to as AuDHD with about a 50/50 chance on BPD. Being certain of most of it has helped me a lot; I know that I’m not (pardon my language) “just crazy” and I can better recognize and compensate for certain behaviours.

        1. Banana Pyjamas*

          Unofficial diagnosis can still be helpful! My sibling’s doctor recognizes my sibling has a condition. They consider the condition in treatment plans, but it’s not written anywhere because it’s a condition where it’s common for your self determination to be taken from you even when you are capable of making good decisions for yourself because the conditions is misunderstood and feared.

          1. Dawn*

            Ah, I know that one. Yes, these ones aren’t quite to the same degree, but similar situation for sure.

  19. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    Can I give OP a hug??? That middle manager was rude as heck to you. Even if you had made inappropriate comments in the past she doesn’t have the right to throw it in your face. We all do or say things that might not be the best and we shouldn’t have to walk on egg shells fearing someone is going to throw it back at us. I’m side eying this management team for how they are acting as well.

    1. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      That’s a really good point, that’s not an appropriate comment to say to anyone. I can’t imagine someone telling a man he was “little mister too much.”

      OP for sure deserves hugs. <3

  20. Elbe*

    If the LW wants to stay with this company, I think it would be worth responding to the snide comments with sincerity, especially when they are said 1:1. Most people would be willing to re-evaluate their opinion of someone who has the self-awareness to say, “I want to let you know that I understand where your comment is coming from and I’m trying to do better.”

    That said, the examples given seem way too personal and hostile to be appropriate in the workplace. This is not a professional way to handle feedback, nor is it productive in the long run. If they had such a huge issue with the LW’s behavior, they or a manager should have addressed it directly. But it seems like the LW got the hint and made changes on her own. If middle management’s idea of managing is to just make nasty little comments, the LW should consider maybe these people are not the best people to be learning professional norms from.

  21. I NEED A Tea!*

    Middle management is behaving very badly, and OP I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. You are enthusiastic and have a lot to offer. Sometimes when people are threatened by someone they will put them down in front of others. I say stand your ground and own it. Next time he says little miss know it all I would say with a smile and a laugh “yes well someone has to be”.

    OP you’re an eagle soaring with pigeons (pigeon lovers don’t come at me).

      1. Rae*

        I think it’s to find a new job. Those middle managers are way out of line, and they can make your life miserable. Also, management tends to stick with management, so even if their bosses like you, those bosses would likely avoid angering a group of other managers by taking your side.

        I’m glad you’ve been working to change. Telling others how to do their job, no matter how innocently it’s meant, will definitely turn people against you. And if you try to bring up workflow and efficiency, it can seem like you’re trying to say those people should be doing more work. There might be no coming back from that.

        But, don’t completely step back from what you’ve been doing. Keep asking questions and offering suggestions. Just don’t dominate meetings and question time. Bring up the big stuff that might benefit from being talked about in the group, and send a follow-up email with the rest of your questions and feedback.

        Good luck!

  22. Leslie Santiago*

    I was in the exact same situation. A year or so after getting diagnosed with ADHD and starting medication, I changed jobs. I am extremely well regarded at my new organisation. Unfortunately I always felt like I couldn’t get past the ingrained views of me at the old one. Still, it’s been great to be appreciated and my talents recognised in the new role.

  23. L-squared*

    I think you really need to look at to what extent this reputation has spread.

    Because, just being honest, I can think of times when there have been people who made not a great impression on a handful of people, but over time they were able to show them that it was just kind of a bad first impression. However, if this got around to everyone, its going to be much harder.

    I’ll tell you immediately what I pictured (this may or may not be you). I pictured the person who, when you have a meeting scheduled for an hour, and you are finishing up early and the person running it says “if there are no other questions, we’ll wrap up”, and then there is that one person who, every single time, has to bring up something that really could be a private conversation, but wiill then hold up everyone. If that is you, and people got this over and over, yeah, you probably aren’t shedding that anytime soon. Because for me, the people who did that, even if it went from every meeting to every 3rd meeting, the fact is, they were still doing it.

    Good luck though

  24. Strive to Excel*

    OP – YBSAIGTC (your boss sucks and isn’t going to change). You are being amazingly mature and proactive in your self-improvement. This group is not going to appreciate that, or your skill. Start job hunting.

    In the meantime, reframe your problem. You seem to have self-improvement under control. This is not a you problem, it’s a petty boss problem. If someone says “of course you’d have a question”, it’s appropriate to go to them afterwards and say “I’m confused. Was my question inappropriate?” If they have a problem with the actual question, implement the feedback. If they don’t have a problem with the question and sidestep it, then deploy “I find it really weird that you’d criticize me for asking a question during an open question time”. If a member of management actually uses phrasing like “Little Miss”, Alison’s “wow”, “what a strange thing to say”, “I would like you to not call me that”, or “that’s a really inappropriate thing to call someone at work” can be deployed depending on your comfort level.

    And if you have any sort of review process, specifically request feedback on these issues. That will give you leverage to either ‘improve’ – ie, have some time to brush up on the corporate politics game and/or job hunt – or if they can’t actually give you a concrete answer, push back.

    But generally this company sucks. May they be taken over by a dynamic female CEO invested in rooting out gender bias.

  25. Lemon Zinger*

    I could have written this letter myself. Years ago, there was a meeting where I bluntly stated something that was true, but in a way that was not helpful or empathetic. Several people were extremely upset. I sent an apology email that night. I have since been diagnosed with ADHD and am now medicated and doing much better in my personal and work lives. However, I can’t undo the past, and I’ve come to realize that leadership in my office is not going to forgive or forget, and I need to move on if I want any chance of career advancement. It sucks, but our actions and behavior have consequences.

  26. Voodoo Priestess*

    OP, By any chance, are you also a woman? I feel like this is another area where gendered feedback can come into play.

    I can relate to your post, and it really pains me that you’re putting in a ton of work to adapt (and mask) and be more palatable to your middle managers while trying to force yourself into a box. Not all people fit into all work cultures and it doesn’t mean there is a problem with you, it just means it isn’t a good fit. That’s OK. This won’t get easier as you get older, instead you’ll end up with accumulated fatigue from always having to be on guard, on alert, rehearsing conversations, etc. That I know from experience.

    It would be a kindness to yourself to start looking for a new job. You’re doing therapy and putting in the work. You should be able to work somewhere you’re not constantly feeling criticized.

    1. SmallTown*

      Yes – I was thinking the same thing. If a man was exhibiting the same behavior, I don’t think they would label him little mister too much. They would probably promote him into management due to program development, and earning a grant that gained local industry recognition. Would he be an outspoken leader who shares his innovative thoughts throughout the organization? Probably – especially if his work resulted in good things for his company, colleagues, and managers. I hope that you can find a work environment that supports you and celebrates you, rather than trying to make you feel less than. This might not be that place.

  27. Honoria Lucasta*

    Can you get a coworker on your side to start telling the counter-narrative? It could be your manager (as a few have suggested), but even a friendly colleague at the same level might be able to gently push back on your behalf if they hear people making comments about you being “extra” or whatever. What you want is someone not-you speaking up in your defense, pointing out the pattern that everyone else has missed because they pigeonholed you in their brain as “the OTT one.”

    Chrissimas’s story is a great example (comment above mine); they were able to point out their change to their friend, and then the friend started noticing how they were early rather than lage. If you can get one person to start noticing your restraint, ideally your manager, they can help change the narrative about you. E.G. When a meeting leader says “Of course you have a question” your friend can go to them afterward and say “Actually, she hasn’t raised her hand in the past three meetings. I’ve noticed she’s actually been a lot more restrained lately!” Or if the middle-managers are all chit-chatting at lunch and one of them says something about you, your own manager can point out how much you’ve improved lately.

    As a “loud” person myself, I totally sympathize with your situation. People aren’t good at noticing when we don’t talk *as much as we used to*, because we are still *talking occasionally*. It feels like we would have to become totally opposite people for them to recalibrate their assessment of us, and that would be destructive to our own well-being.

  28. Bloopbloop*

    This makes me so sad. While it’s good to give space to others and be thoughtful about your airtime, these managers are Mean Girling you into dulling your shine. They should be glad to have someone on staff who is innovative and enthusiastic.

  29. Baela Targaryen*

    I’ve been “too much” before, too.

    You are doing the good work. Now you’re in the middle period of waiting for the seeds of your change to sprout so that others can see the flowers. It sucks, it’s exhausting, and it’s demoralizing.

    Keep going anyway. Good luck.

  30. Alexis Moira Rose*

    The middle managers’ reactions sound completely arbitrary to me based on differences in communication and personality. They also have not picked up on the LW’s changes to adapt to that work environment, which shows they have some deeply seated prejudices that they can’t shake about the person. Time to move on and have a fresh start! People’s dislike of you and rudeness towards you is completely unjustified and they won’t change.
    Also, you could think of some statements to confront their rude comments, such as if they say “of course you have a question, ” you could respond, “can you explain what you mean by that?”

    1. L-squared*

      In fairness to the managers, most people remember what you have been like most of the time, not necessarily just recently.

      Chrissimas above told a good story of how this type of thing happens.

      Everyone has their own things going on, and if someone gets the reputation as a know it all who tells others how to do their job, other people won’t necessarily notice when they stopped doing it, because that is really what everyone else is already doing. OP was doing the abnormal thing, so when it stops, people don’t necessarily notice.

  31. linus*

    can i just say it really sounds like what you’re facing is less “a reputation for being extra” and “bog standard office misogyny.” is there a male colleague in the office you’re close with? try asking him if he can put forward one or two of your suggestions and see how they go over. it really sounds like the people doing this to you are reacting to Something and it sounds way, way less like “your engagement with your job” and way more like, well, your gender.

    1. Nicosloanica*

      Ooh, interesting slant that I hadn’t considered – is OP is female it can definitely happen that all the ideas are “little Miss Too Much” but the exact same comments would go over differently from a different person.

  32. MerriadocTylerMoore*

    Phew, I gotta say…this reallllly smells like jealousy to me. With the exception of “telling others how to do their jobs,” which you say you’ve intentionally pulled back on, none of your behaviors sound remotely difficult or “inappropriate” to me.

    But if I were an insecure middle-manager, jealous of your talent AND your enthusiasm, I would probably act snarky and bitter too. Getting pissy because you had a QUESTION during the Q&A portion?! Please. Babies. If anything, I would ignore them until they say something to you directly again, then hit them with a “You keep making comments like that, and I’m curious why, since I do excellent work and the majority of our colleagues seem to really appreciate the work I do.”

    1. Person from the Resume*

      See all the comments confirming that “you never get a second chance to make a first impression.”

      This tight-knit group of middle managers sounds like there are some jerks in there. (And if “little miss” was part of the actual insult then sexism and misogyny!) But it also sounds like the LW has assessed that part of her “too much” was a lots of being vocal and asking questions outside of her lane and implying she knew how to do other people’s jobs better than they did. She was like that; they remember it.

      Dismissing it as jealousy is mistake. Saying other people are jealous is what un-self-aware people do – people who do not understand what they did was even wrong.

      1. Burning Burner*

        You’re right that most of what’s driving the managers’ reaction is irritation about the LW’s legitimate missteps. But it’s tricky because there’s probably an element of jealousy in there as well. The LW has gotten results and praise for innovating in an organization that’s very pro-status quo due to taking professional risks that her coworkers either can’t or won’t.

      2. MerriadocTylerMoore*

        I do think “they’re just jealous!!!” is deployed as an avoidance tactic, and if the LW weren’t so clearly self-aware, I would probably agree with you. But in this instance, they’ve made considerable effort to change an unwanted behavior. Their colleagues’ refusal to acknowledge that speaks to a deeper issue of jealousy/envy. I’ve witnessed several similar situations where an apparent dislike or bitterness stems from an unaddressed jealousy. And I bet that, if any of these middle-managers were self-aware, they could ask the LW for tips on how to be more straightforward/bold!

  33. FionasHuman*

    I’ve been “extra” my whole life thanks to a lovely combination of PTSD and ADHD; the first finally correctly diagnosed in my 40’s, and the latter *finally* diagnosed at 60+.

    The one thing I didn’t see scanning the comments is just how much human beings are pattern-detecting animals. Once we think we see a pattern it’s extremely hard for most of us to acknowledge when the pattern has changed, even when (in interpersonal issues) we truly care about another person and support the growth work they’re doing. (ask my husband why I know) Coworkers may care about you in an abstract way, but generally they won’t make the time to experience the cognitive dissonance involved in recognizing your new patterns of behavior.

    Best wishes in whatever you decide to do. You deserve to be treated with respect, not snide comments.

  34. Arrietty*

    I had a similar problem (and actually lost the job during my probation period because my manager had a fixed view of me and decided I could never learn). All those things she didn’t like about me? Other than a tendency to be late, they’re all positives for my current career, and are a large part of why I’ve been successful. Even the chronic lateness is less of an issue now that I run the business (because needing to be somewhere by X time is much easier when you decide what X is!)

    It took me years to recover from the negative image of myself I got in that job. Now I can see that I was just in the wrong environment – a very hierarchical, neurotypical, policy-driven place that didn’t want ideas or out of the box thinking. They weren’t necessarily wrong, but they were wrong for me (and I believe missing out as a result, but that’s what massive organisations are often like).

    1. Bluebonnet*

      I can relate. I am in the process of seeking an Autism diagnosis, and once worked in a conventional (legal) environment. Needless to say, I did not thrive there.

  35. Varthema*

    I don’t care how extra or out-of-her lane the OP was, even if she hadn’t made a change, those snide remarks (especially the “little miss”) are mean and unexcusable. I don’t care how annoyed they might be or how justified that annoyance is. It’s unprofessional and borderline if not full-on bullying.

    1. learnedthehardway*

      Agreeing – that comment in and of itself would be a good reason to talk to HR. That kind of nastiness should be sharply nipped in the bud.

    2. AngryOwl*

      Agreed! I don’t understand how this isn’t a key part of the conversation. No matter how OP acted in the past, this is unacceptable.

  36. Sneaky Squirrel*

    I want to put out there that I don’t think being extra is necessarily a bad thing. It sounds like there’s some jealousy going on. You’re enthusiastic about the work and I personally would prefer to work with someone who is overenthusiastic and occasionally needs to be reeled in than someone who is negative about work and not willing to bring forth change. But I can see that when people are at the point of making snide remarks about your personality, that could also be a barrier to promotions or work you want to take on.

    Can you bring in your boss and let them know about your efforts? If your boss is supportive, then you could use them as a reality check to see if your efforts are noted. But also, having the boss as an ally in your corner might help to both steer away some of the snide remarks and potentially help reframe your colleagues’ perspectives. If not a boss, then maybe a few trusted peers or a mentor could take on some of that role.

    1. judyjudyjudy*

      I’ve worked with an extra enthusiastic, go-getter, take-no-prisoners type, and it was frankly an exhausting and terrible experience — she is a brilliant, accomplished, genuinely good person, who I never want to work with again.

      I think that there is a lot wrong with this workplace — the “little miss” comment (gross), the cliquishness, the put-downs. But saying, “own your extra-ness” uncritically isn’t going to help either.

      Last thing, LW, it sounds like to repair your reputation, you’re trying to hide your light under a bushel. It sounds like you had some great ideas! Maybe it’s about, inviting more people to the table, asking for their thoughts and expertise to make improvements? Instead of trying to tell someone else how to do their job, or whatever was causing friction. Some people still won’t want to change things and will be determined to dislike your proposals or even just you. But maybe you can build a reputation as someone who helps teams fix problems, not someone who tries to fix problems for teams.

      Best of luck!

  37. DameB*

    LW – I too am the “extra” one at my company and *they love me for it.* I’m the American who will say The Thing among a crew of introvert, very polite Brits and they deeply appreciate it, even if it means occasionally I’m a little too much. They count on me to be the one to speak up in meetings and point out when the Big Boss has just said something profoundly untrue (politely, professionally, of course, but still).

    You’re excellent. Reign it in a bit so you’re not telling people how to do their jobs but find a place that appreciates you for all your extraness.

  38. Double A*

    I think LW should look for a different job, but not because they have screwed up but because this company isn’t a good fit. This is a company this isn’t looking for initiative and to change things up. And maybe that’s a good thing for the company, I don’t know. But there ARE organizations that are open to people who ask questions and look for ways to improve things. I’m in one of them and it’s a great fit for my personality, while people who like consistency and predictability can struggle.

    I’ve also gotten, “Of course you have a question!” but it was said with affection because in my company, it’s a good thing! Even though I know I have a bit of a reputation for having All The Questions. I’m also acknowledged and appreciated for the good work I do and have been promoted because of it.

    Your company doesn’t sound like a good fit FOR YOU. Your attributes would be greatly appreciated elsewhere, especially since you’ll be balancing that tendency to go full out with what you’ve learned about when to pull back and how to listen. You’ve learned a TON at that company; now it’s time to let that benefit you and another company that will appreciate you.

  39. Cacophonix*

    I agree, leaving may be the unfortunate best option. Not the same, but I can think of at least 1 instance I had to do this. I needed to cut back on the normally senior level intense contract work I do and I took a contract role as a contributing team member at a big company in my area. One I can excel at and also do in my sleep. After that was done and I was in a much better place, I could not, no matter who I showed my resume to, get a role more in line with my experience at that company. I was just branded with the old role, which was fine in a way – a change management role. But worse, all people remembered was what they saw – excellent communication skills. So they thought I would be grateful to be asked to edit policy manuals and prepare powerpoint slides for executives. I’ve learned that if you do a superb job with strategy and planning, then even a senior contributing role looks easy to anyone looking on. Baddababing, anybody with decent writing skills can do it.

    I declined and went back years later when the leaders who knew me moved on.

  40. Ruthie*

    To the OP and other commenters: I hate that you are in environments where you’re made to feel like your ND selves are Too Much. In my workplace, I’ve seen a real culture change in the past few years mostly thanks to our Neurodiversity Employee Resource Group. There’s a much greater understanding of the way our brains work differently, and how those differences make us stronger as an organization. So if you do need to look for another job, asking about the company’s ERGs might help you screen for a place that will be a more welcoming environment. I’m mad at your current workplace and the jerk-face middle managers for making you waste your mental energy in masking. I really hope you can find a place that will celebrate you as you are.

  41. werewolf*

    Completely agree with Alison about being careful not to over-correct, but in different words— I’m assuming when you say “on the spectrum” you mean the autistic spectrum, although I suppose this could also apply to other neurodivergencies that I’m not as familiar with. The actions you’ve taken to course-correct are new masking adaptations; you’re masking more than you did when you first started. Like all masking, the changes will help you fit in to a neurotypical workplace more, but masking is one of the leading causes of autistic burnout. A lot of adult AFAB autistic people don’t even get diagnosed until they’re in severe burnout, because in the past they masked so well no one noticed their symptoms, and it isn’t until they burnout and lose the ability to mask that they realize they’re autistic.

    This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t do any of the steps you’ve taken. Only you can decide that. And some of what you were doing was probably affecting others’ work negatively, like telling them how to do their job, so it is good to be cognizant of it and take steps to avoid it! But it’s also important to be aware of what you’re doing within the context of autism, and what consequences it may have down the line. Personally, I have been dealing with the beginning stages of autistic burnout for a few months, and have really struggled to find very many resources about preventing it or recovering from it before hitting rock bottom, so I know that it’s not always talked about before the fact and wanted to flag it for you.

    1. Queer Anon*

      100% this. That much time spent rehearsing scripts and monitoring what you’re saying and how you’re saying it sounds exhausting and unsustainable. These managers seem to have a very limited view of how people (and, as other commenters have pointed out, women specifically) are allowed to be, and it seems unlikely that you can squeeze yourself into a box small enough to satisfy them. There are other workplaces out there where that is simply not necessary (at least not to the same degree) and you can instead be valued for these traits. I hope you can find somewhere where you can focus your energy on the job itself instead of on pretending to be someone you are fundamentally not.

    2. Bluebonnet*

      I am in the process of getting diagnosed Autistic and can also relate with being considered “extra” at work. A co-worker even once said “It’s not all about you!” when I was upset in response to them being upset with me for missing some context.

      I wanted to commiserate that it is tiring not being understood at work day after day. It is also hard when co-workers do not understand my thought process of why I am asking what I am asking and clow me off. I bend over backwards to understand them, but they do not give me the same courtesy. In counseling with an Autism focused therapist now to work through this.

    3. Minimal Pear*

      Yeah, I think even if it turns out that OP can rehabilitate her reputation at this company, having to keep this behavior up all the time isn’t worth it. She’s going to burn out. It does sound like a lot of the changes she’s made are good/polite ones but I think she needs to go somewhere with a culture that will require less masking.

  42. A Very Extra Shrimp*

    As a fellow Extra Person, I would encourage you to embrace the Extra! I know it’s easier said than done, but I can tell you first hand that it feels so much better than feeling like you have to squish yourself into a tiny ball just to fit in. People joke about my extra-ness all the time, but it’s a good-hearted joke. They appreciate the Extra!
    Just make sure you’re not stepping on too many toes, veering out of your lane, that kind of stuff. If you struggle with that, keep asking yourself the questions you’re already asking, and in some situations, you might be able to spin it into process improvements or other new ideas.
    And if people can’t appreciate you for who you are, then screw ’em. There are definitely people who will, and you should go find them!

    1. Nicosloanica*

      Yes, don’t focus on being less; you can still work on being inclusive and kind and not running roughshod over others in your enthusiasm (guilty!) without trying to literally make yourself smaller.

  43. Trout 'Waver*

    OP, you will never succeed in making yourself so small that the haters will like you.

    Find somewhere that accepts you.

  44. Sweet 'N Low*

    As a fellow neurodivergent, this letter makes me so sad. It’s really, really hard to live in a world where basically your whole personality is considered to be A Problem. It’s one thing if you’re hurting people or being rude, but 95% of LW’s examples are not that (and to be clear, the other 5% are maybe a little rude or tone deaf, but definitely not hurting anyone).

    I don’t have any good work-related advice, but I did want to say one thing. While it’s an unfortunate reality that most of us have to mask or dial ourselves back at work, LW, please don’t let that affect your sense of self or who you are as a person. You might have to be “less” at work because of silly professional norms, but that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you as a person. It doesn’t mean that you as a person have to be “less”. With what little you’ve said here, you sound like an an awesome person – someone who is enthusiastic, intelligent, kind, and probably a lot of fun to be around. You sound like most of my friends, who babble on endlessly and say weird things sometimes – which I love about them, because I do the same thing. Do what you need to in order to get by at work, but please don’t let that affect you being your enthusiastic, intelligent, kind self the rest of the time.

    1. Yadah*

      Also as a fellow neurodivergent, I want to mention that telling other people how to do their job can often be beyond “a little rude or tone deaf”
      Many people find that kind of micromanaging incredibly offensive and will actively job-seek over working with or for people who overstep so I think it’s important to be honest with OP about how significant of a faux pas that can be depending on the specific circumstances.

      1. judyjudyjudy*

        Agreed! Sweet ‘N Low, I’ve worked with a extra, massive overstepper. She wasn’t “maybe a little rude or tone deaf” — she made me exhausted, and I dreaded every day coming to work when she was there. I had to constantly set and re-set boundaries with her, and she was always trying to push her agenda forward because in her mind, it was way more important than the stuff her coworkers were doing. So. It is possible to be an extra, go-getter dynamo with genuinely good intentions and be a nightmare to work with.

        LW, I’m not saying you did any of that, but I think self-reflection and asking trusted coworkers (as Allison suggested) are great steps here. And I genuinely think you are making yourself too small here — I hope there is some middle ground where all your great ideas can still shine.

  45. MistOrMister*

    OP, in addition to asking a trusted colleague if/how you could redeem your image at the workplace, perhaps you could have a colleague help you out in meetings. I’m iffy on the logistics, but maybe someone you trust that you could sit by and pass a note when you have a question and they can give you a quick thumbs up/thumbs down to let you know if they feel the question is overstepping or not could help you get a better idea of what things to askand which are outside your area of expertise.

  46. NurseThis*

    The mean comments, there is no excuse for that.

    I did work at a place where one person caused the meetings to go on 2-3x as long as necessary. We’d cover the agenda and then Constance would begin her questions. And a 15 minute meeting turned into a 45 minute meeting every time. However in my mind the fault was our managers for not giving her feedback about reading the room.

    We had metrics for returning calls in a short period of time and people would try to beg out of meetings if Constance was there that day. Or ask to Zoom in and stay at their desk. But again, it was a management issue to address. And they didn’t.

    1. Orv*

      Yeah, the solution there would have been to have a hard stop time for the meeting and tell Constance to address any further questions via email.

  47. Lucy Q*

    this sounds so autistic. I have had similar type concerns my whole life and just found out the reason!

  48. Ann O'Nemity*

    LW, if you have a trusted mentor or colleague who’s not part of this clique, you might ask them for candid feedback about how you’re perceived. Sometimes an outside perspective can shed light on what’s working and what might still need adjustment. Be open to the idea that it may be too late to change your reputation at this organization.

    If you decide to stay, consider addressing the issue head-on, but with a focus on collaboration rather than apology. For example, you could say something like, “I realize that in the past, I may have come across as overly enthusiastic or forward. I’m working to be more thoughtful in my contributions, and I’d love your feedback as I continue to grow.” This shows awareness, but also signals that you’re moving forward and want to be a part of the team in a positive way. If possible, find opportunities to connect with people in the middle management group one-on-one. Personal connections can help break down groupthink.

    Finally, please don’t overcorrect and try to make yourself small. It’s great that you’ve been thoughtful about not speaking out of turn, don’t feel like you can never contribute. If you’re in a meeting where your expertise is relevant, share it! Just be mindful of the timing and delivery, which you’ve already improved.

  49. ADHD struggle bus*

    As a late diagnosed ADHD myself, I deeply relate to the fear of being too much! But I’d also echo Alison’s point of not over correcting.

    As a kid I was so afraid of being too much that I got really good at blending in- but it still sucked. A lot. I felt like I was never genuinely my authentic self, couldn’t form relationships with coworkers and was still so, so anxious about giving the exact “right” amount of interest in any interaction.

    I think some of this can be helpful self reflection- to notice overstepping in other people’s jobs or just better understanding social cues (the trap of how “how’s it going?” Really just means hello, not actually wondering how you are). And annoyingly, some of this perception is based on tone and phrasing! Talking about someone else’s job or process is going to come across very differently if you’re friendly with someone and phrase it as, “hey! This is a little random I was wondering why you do X? I wondered if Y makes more sense, but don’t know all the details.” (But even there you run into tone policing and women having to soften their language!)

    But some of this seems really rude from your coworkers, especially the middle management clique! You don’t need to perform every social interaction perfectly to warrant basic respect and kindness at work.

    Ultimately I don’t think this is a You problem you need to solve, it sounds like an issue of comparability with the company culture. If they can’t give you grace in social interactions or the grace to improve relationships, then that’s a culture problem and not something you can fix- all the perfect small talk in the world can’t change the company.

    So sadly I’d have to agree in considering a new role, or find the people at this company that don’t hold this against you, and accept that you can’t please everyone, and some people won’t like you.

  50. Sweet 'N Low*

    Wanted to leave another quick comment, somewhat-but-not-entirely unrelated to my other one.

    LW, this may or may not help you depending on your situation, but I hope it helps at least some neurodivergent person out there: There are jobs out there where you don’t have to constantly mask. You might not be able to find them at every company or in every industry, but they do exist. And not just jobs where you being “extra” will be tolerated, but where it’ll be an asset! Often they’re the less conventional jobs (I found my neurodivergent-friendly home as a fencing coach of all things) but there’s nothing wrong with that. Less conventional doesn’t equal less valid.

  51. Distracted Librarian*

    A lot of your description of yourself resonates with me, especially Younger Me. So maybe I’m biased, but your behavior doesn’t sound all that bad to me, especially when weighed against your major contributions. You know what does sound bad to me? How your colleagues are treating you! They’re being openly rude and condescending, including in public situations.

    My advice is to look for a new job. I think your obnoxious colleagues are holding you back more than your tendency to be “extra.” Don’t make yourself small for these people. Find a place that will value and reward you for your strengths instead. Good luck!

  52. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    Not all mean comments are valid.

    The fact that you are putting so much energy into making sure you aren’t too much while coworkers feel free to say snide and hurtful things is evidence of that. Why are you having to fundamentally change who you are while they get to continue to mock you.

    I am so angry in my neurodivergent heart. Yes there are things we need to do to make sure our quirks do not hurt others, but it goes both ways.

    I vote for talking to your manager but also make plans to move on.

    1. MA Dad*

      Also neurodivergent and so, so angry about this stuff. I’m silent nearly all day because if I try to explain my train of thought or why I did/didn’t do a certain thing, I just get that fake smiley condescension. Nothing bad ever happens to the bullies and until it does, you’ll find me screaming into the abyss.

  53. fluffyllama*

    LW,
    I commiserate.
    I was/am in a similar boat. What my coach helped me with was reading a book ‘what got you here won’t get you there’
    One of the advice offered there, is , ask for direct feedback, then for help then go on a marketing offensive. Tell your boss your mentor your colleagues and your peers about the plan to be a new you. ‘I want to grow sensitivity/ political flair/ I want to listen more etc. Then do your steps, then ask again feedback. Otherwise the reputation is hard to change if you don’t tell people that you’re changing.
    In meetings sometime decline to offer input, just say, ‘I am trying to read the situation more before I offer my opinion’ or something of a kind. Market the new you. It’s not too late and 1 year is not a long time, the progres you made is probably there but not visible to someone who is not ready to have their opinion changed.
    Ask for best practices from your colleagues , show them that you are interested in what they do and why. I’m sure you will learn some things and in the process you will cultivate some good will. Your organization works so they must be doing something right. I am also a very future oriented and change oriented person, but while I’m swinging the lasso in the center of the storm the other guys feel like they’re hanging on for dear life. Ease on the people around you. Choose your battles.
    And in the meantime own your story. When they make a joke you can respond in part .’Oh you know me, Abc is my passion’ and move on.
    I got this feedback 6 years ago :
    ‘ fluffyllama is very passionate about teapot design . Maybe too passionate’. The same guy now willingly put a word for me to be included in a committee for teapot design.
    I still am known as more intensive than usual, not everyone will like my flavor, but I annoy less people. So I consider that growth. I am 100% sure you can do it too.

    Good luck!

  54. Anon21*

    Gotta say…regardless of the “provocation,” those comments by the middle managers are snide, unprofessional, and unkind. For two different people in supervisory positions to say those things out loud suggests your organization has a culture of tearing down coworkers that will probably show up in other bad ways.

    1. Nicosloanica*

      Could definitely be a sign of a sick syndrome rather than that OP needs to change or atone from some past missteps.

    2. Bruce*

      Seconded! I worked at a place where public humiliations were part of the culture, finally found a place that is collegial and supportive, have stuck with it for 24 years!

  55. Bruce*

    Snide comments like “Little Miss Too Much” would really sting, and they say a lot about the source. My child was working in a toxic organization where they were being singled out in spite of their best efforts, they’ve moved to a new place and the whole environment has changed. Their efforts are praised and they feel valued. Sometimes that is what it takes. I applaud your work to become self aware, and can relate to it… but this ain’t all on you!

  56. abcd*

    Wow! This hit close to home. Those managers suck OP, I hope you can find a place where your talents, hard work and admirable self reflection/course correction are more appreciated and rewarded

  57. What is even happening*

    Dude, this has been me, almost to a T. I have gotten through this via a combination of changing jobs, learning to recognise crappy management, going to therapy, working with a work coach, taking ADHD medication after being diagnosed, and finding other things outside of work that I could use my ‘extra-ness’ on.
    -Jobs: I changed, within the same large organisation, to an area of operations where being ‘extra’ was a Huge asset and I did very well, gaining an excellent reputation including for being someone that could be relied upon to ‘clean up’, spot the problems, and develop new systems.
    -crappy management: it was super useful to accept that the misogyny, racism and competitiveness is real. I learned to distance myself, not easy but learning to see the problem is someone else is huge!
    -therapy: has been extremely useful to learn more about myself, what makes me want to do more and challenge some deep seated beliefs that I had no conscious idea that I had (like, I often go ‘extra’ because I fear that if I don’t, then nobody will which is actually not true, and if it were true then maybe it’s not my responsibility? lots to unpack there_
    -work coach: I applied to every coaching opportunity I could find, and when i did get accepted, worked on some of my assumptions and style and getting some hard truths kindly and also some redirection has been super helpful
    – ADHD medication: whoa! a lot of the time being ‘extra’ was because my brain works SO fast and in so many directions at once, that taming that has helped me be a bit more comfortable and measured
    -other focus: I started workign out more, doing things that rrequire lots of focus like sewing, stitching, making sure I got lots of exercise daily, and when I have time then doing other activities with people.

    And here’s the thing: you can’t totally change who you are, and that’s ok! you sound brilliant and amazing. So lean into your strengths! learn to laugh at yourself! and when someone gives you a crappy comment, own it (like others have said) and say ‘yep! I’m the Question Queen woo hoo!’ or throw it back at them and say ‘yep, of course you would say you want questions but not happy when they,re asked… anyhoo, here is my question’; it all depends on your style. If you are well enough established in your career, then just ride things out. If you are starting, then find a new palce where you can be more yourself.

    ADHD people have historically done very well at things that require lots of things happening at the same time, so logistics, emergency response, maybe you can pivot in that direction too?

    Most importantly, YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! You are a wonderful human with gifts and talents and this may not be the best place for you to use them. that’s fine. Just survive for now and find a place that is a better fit if you can.

  58. RVA Cat*

    OP, you’re at odds with a toxic, sexist, immature culture. Get out before they hurt you more than they already have. They don’t *want* to do better.

  59. Head Sheep Counter*

    I smell something rotten and I don’t think its OP. I hate to lean on the patriarchy… but… can we? I can, in no world, imagine this being said to man. Instead that man would be promoted (am assuming that “little miss” indicates how LW appears).

    I think you may well be in a … its not me … its you … situation with your work. If the MM is indicative of what you experience you need a new job. A smaller you only leaves less of you for you.

    We all have growth opportunities. Good on you for considering yours.

  60. The Rise and Fall of Sanctuary Moon*

    OP, a good rule is that whenever managers in a workplace find it ok to make someone’s behavior an “in joke” without including that person in the joke or managing that person about it, there’s a problem with the workplace, not you.
    Take the “Of course you have a question” comment. If that person had said “Of course you have a question. (People laugh.) We laugh, but we rely on you to make sure everything is covered! Please, ask away.” that would have been fine. You are included in the group.
    OR your manager could take you aside privately and say, “I know you pay a lot of attention and have many questions, but some of them are too specific to your work to take everyone’s time. Please write those down instead of asking in the big meeting and we can go through them later.”
    Just making the snide comment is cruel and it prioritizes their camaraderie over getting the best work out of you. That shows bad business priorities as well as bad socializing, so it can’t possibly be the best place for you to grow in your career. I know it’s not easy to look for a good job, but I do think it’s your best solution.

  61. LadyHouseOfLove*

    The only issue I see here are the middle managers, not you, OP.

    The nicest thing I can say is that they sound like a pack of rabid hyenas.

    I also think you need to ask yourself if they would be doing this if you were a man. Check with your own supervisors and consider your options elsewhere. I hate that when people are being passionate and good at their jobs, they’re being demeaned by jealous colleagues who want to rest on their laurels.*

    Personally, I’d like to see how upper management reacts if a high-achieving employee says they’re leaving because of aforementioned rude managers during an exit interview.

    *And for the record, I have no issue at all with people that want to just clock in and clock out and no more. It’s when I see uneccessary snarkiness thrown at people that work differently from them that I have the issue.

  62. Throwaway Account*

    You got great advice from Alison and the community here!
    A frustration I don’t see discussed is that plenty of coworkers are a “missing step” or otherwise are “quirky” and people work around them without treating them this way! And even respect them for their quirkiness!

    I’ve been labeled the same way even without stepping outside my lane (that is the only thing I see as an issue in your description). It can really hurt!

    One thing I’ve learned is that other people’s perception of me is none of my business. That has helped me a lot.

    I wish you the best!

  63. Bitte Meddler*

    Twice, at two different jobs, when I was first starting out, I made an absolute ass out of myself because I was So Eager! So Very Smart! So Helpful!

    The first time, when I realized what my reputation was, I panicked and quit.

    The second time, having learned that quitting with nothing lined up was a Bad Thing, I decided that I had nothing to lose and said something to my version of OP’s jerk middle manager (it was someone senior to me, but not a manager).

    I asked for her help.

    I said it was great that she’d recognized I had Annoying Habit and had said something about it (I left out that what she’d said was mean and snarky), and asked her to call me on it when I did it again. I told her I realized it was annoying but that when I got like that, I was pretty much operating on autopilot and would welcome an off switch.

    We never became besties or anything, and I think she only called me on it once after the conversation, but just letting her know that I knew (that she saw me as annoying) and that I was working on it seemed to shut down her Mean Girl tendencies.

    Might be something for OP to try. If it doesn’t work, they can always look for another job.

  64. Coffee Protein Drink*

    The Middle Management Clique sounds like a bunch of jerks. I’d want to get out on that basis alone.

    LW, I think you’re doing everything you can here and Allison is spot on. Find a place where you don’t need to dim your light to satisfy bullies.

  65. Moira's Rose's Garden*

    I’m defo Too Much for a lot of my colleagues, but they’ve mostly been the ones measuring How Much with very gendered scales. Ahem. I’ve often been the only woman in the room in my career, and if I hadn’t been All That as well as Too Much (for some) I also would not still Be Here.

    OP, let your jib cut the way it may. Not everyone is going to like you, some of them fairly, some of them not, no matter WHAT you do. The ones measuring on a scale of malice will actually hate you more for being better, IMO!

    But if I may offer: NOT being everything you actually are (and FWIW, you sound like someone I’d have on MY team in a heartbeat!) will suck your joy. No one gets to claim that. Self-improvement and growth are awesome – keep reality checking whether you’re out of turn at a meeting or offering advice when it wasn’t asked; being mindful of boundaries and context is valuable! Yet if you were one of my mentees I’d tell you to keep being Too Much for every jealous or shallow person who wants you in a smaller box, because I bet you’re actually just the Right Amount of Awesome for the people who appreciate what you bring to the table. Maybe that’s not at this company, but hell yeah it’s somewhere!

    1. Moira's Rose's Garden*

      Should not that I’m not using “hate” as in capital H, just tbc. I mean more “these people who are not fans and rude enough to say mean stuff”.

  66. CallYourMother*

    Most of us have been here in some way or another, which I say to normalize what you are feeling and experiencing. This advice is so sound – get out, use your new tools and your old (amazing) skills to build the reputation you want. I did this and it was such a weight off my shoulders to not feel like folks were whispering behind my back.

    As an aside – interesting to me that a high achieving, go-getter, well liked by clients WOMAN was told she was…to much. Definitely an element of sexism here. Not saying you didn’t make mistakes, but would such mistakes even matter if you were a man.

  67. Czech Mate*

    I’m glad you’re asking these questions, OP, but please make no mistake: the colleagues and managers saying things like “Of course you have a question” or “Well, of course you’d say something inappropriate in that situation,” are being incredibly rude. That alone could be good reason to start looking for a new job, even while you continue to work on yourself.

  68. a yellow leaf*

    Oooh, this definitely strikes home for me. I’m not neurodivergent, but I’m extremely energetic can definitely have an over-the-top attitude about things. I started my first professional job straight out of college, and definitely struggled with some professional norms! I made a ton of progress and was extremely respected for my abilities, but after a few years I realized that upper management still kinda viewed me as “a kid” and a lil bit immature, even though I had grown past a lot of that.

    I don’t really fault them for it – it’s the same as any parent trying to see their child as “all grown up.” But I felt like it was starting to hold back my career progression, so that just meant it was time for me to move on.

    1. Zephy*

      +1 to this as well – some people really struggle to update their mental notes about you, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, and some of those people are managers. I had a manager at my last job refer to me as “still pretty new*” after I’d been part of the team for two entire years. After she left, the next manager – who had not been working with the rest of the team for a decade – saw my competence much more clearly and treated me accordingly.

      (*The next-newest person hired before me had been there for almost a decade, so sure, I was new *by comparison,* but the position was not one that needed more than a few months of onboarding to be able to perform the job duties – the more experienced staff were not necessarily better at doing the job than I was by that point.)

  69. kiki*

    Just something to keep in mind is that not all work environments will work for all people and that’s okay! You may be “extra” in this workplace but in many others I have a feeling you’d be considered a proactive and engaged employee in others. You don’t necessarily have to change yourself completely to fit one workplace— other workplaces with different cultures exist!

  70. Mermaid of the Lunacy*

    If people are so rude as to make remarks like that, I would see it as an opportunity to let everyone know that you are changing. “You’re right, I used to be Little Miss Too Much. I’m trying to turn over a new leaf and hopefully you’ve seen some changes.” Sometimes just acting in the moment and acknowledging the dynamic is the best way to change it.

  71. musical chairs*

    Working off a hunch here, but are you a Black woman in a non-black professional context? If not, ignore this comment completely. If so, I encourage you to look into the phenomenon, identified by Dr. Kecia Thomas of University of Georgia, that occurs when we go from Pet to Threat.

    Without going into too much unhelpful detail about my personal experience, I will say a lot of what you described in your letter felt really familiar—the initial bewilderment, the impulses to do and be less, the frustration when it changed very little. I am seriously considering leaving a job I love and am really good at before this dynamic affects my professional and financial future.

    I want you to hear that it’s not you. It’s just not you. You’re not doing anything wrong.

    You’ve found a lot of success so far, I imagine, by your willingness to deal with problems head on. And it’s easy to tell yourself that if a lot of people are having the same reaction to you that you are the one that needs to change something. That makes sense usually, but unfortunately, other forces may be at play here. Trying to get to the bottom of this one, trying to make other people see what you know about yourself may come at great personal cost. It’s up to you to decide for yourself right now if that’s worth it.

    One thing that has been helpful for me is community. Seeking out the counsel and friendship of Black women ahead of me and alongside of me who Get It and get my industry and don’t make me explain myself. I have a Black therapist who can help me with the rough edges of the emotional realities of dealing with this who, again, doesn’t make me question if I’m seeing what I’m objectively seeing.

    Do whatever you have to do to protect the parts of you that are soft, the parts of you that are not for sale: your joy, your sense of self, your motivation, your enthusiasm. Let maintaining the integrity of You be your priority in deciding what to do next in your career. And if that means you need to leave, you need to leave.

    1. 2 and a Possible*

      This commentariat skews female, but I wondered this as well. The study is old (2013) but I am much older and am familiar with this observation.

      If you are in the wrong package to be considered the right messenger, what can you do,?

    2. Anna*

      Pet to threat… Wow.. I had never heard of this but it’s so real.

      I struggle from depression and sometimes it really fucks things up. At one point I lost a well paid corporate job because I just stopped going to work. I didn’t leave my apartment for months and eventually ran out of money. I was on the verge of homelessness. Things got dark. I finally reached out to a friend who had had a retail job, and the friend was able to get me a job at the same place. I was miserable, uncommunicative, and didn’t care about anything. I did the bare minimum, but for me the bare minimum was showing up for all my shifts on time and getting the work done. But this place paid minimum wage to start and many (not all!) employees did not meet this low bar. My bosses quickly realized they could rely on me (aka exploit me). I got raises, health insurance, shift priority, overtime – they absolutely loved me. They trained me as a backup manager (but didn’t pay me more of course.)

      I eventually managed to climb out of the depression hole and get a much better job. When the pandemic started, that job moved to reduced hours flex scheduling wfh (without cutting pay), so I was able to return to the retail job part time to build back my savings. I was no longer depressed; I was confident, and happy. I was more efficient and didn’t make mistakes. In the time I’d been gone, the store had had a lot of middle management turnover, so even though I was “newer” and not a manager, I knew more than the new managers due to my prior stint. New non-management employees, even ones from different departments, would come to me with questions instead of their managers because I actually knew the answers.

      Well. You would think I’d murdered a baby. Upper management spoke to me about my “attitude” on more than one occasion (my… helpful and competent attitude?) The levels of resentment against me because I wasn’t miserable anymore… these were the same people who couldn’t stop praising me before.

      The low point was when another employee verbally sexually harassed me (something about my ass, I don’t even remember anymore), and in response I frowned, said “I’m going to pretend you didn’t say that,” and walked away. HE went to management and complained about my rudeness! I was shocked when they called me in for that one. I asked if he’d told them what he said to me first. He had in fact told them. They told me it was a compliment! Insane. I asked them if they realized that was me being “nice”, and the “less-nice” thing would have been to report him for sexual harassment and get him fired. The managers speaking with me exchanged glances and the meeting ended pretty quickly after that, but not before they told me “don’t do it again.” They didn’t ever officially write me up for anything, though.

      That was the last straw. I did report to corporate HR, but instead of addressing it properly, they just kept having different people call me to get my “statement.” It was a master class in wasting my time until I dropped the issue, which I unfortunately did.

      Some of these people were the same ones who’d praised me when I was at my lowest and doing my worst. They were astonishingly resentful of me when I was back to normal. Pet to threat – perfect description.

      (2 silver linings: (1) I made a mess then walked out without telling anyone in the middle of a shift days before I was supposed to sub for my manager, and I heard she had to cancel her vacation to cover. I didn’t plan it that way, it was just that in the middle of a shift, I thought to myself, I deserve better. So I left. And (2), I applied for unemployment, telling them I had quit over lack of pandemic precautions. I obviously left for many reasons, but I had complained about their failure to enforce pandemic safety in writing and I wasn’t working full time at my other job, so I received partial pandemic unemployment for a while. I think they didn’t contest it because the “trying to discipline me for being sexually harassed” thing was still out there.)

  72. tw1968*

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that LW is a woman. Because if women speak up in meetings and do some of the things she says she did, they get branded this way, unfairly. But if a man does the same thing, it’s treated completely differently. “Oh he’s a go-getter–he’s done so much for our organization, he’s gotten us out of our old ‘we always did it this way’…streamlined processes, you name it.” And these middle managers wouldn’t call a man “extra”. Such gendered BS in my opinion.

    1. Polly Hedron*

      That’s not a limb: we know LW is a woman because the middle manager called her “Little Miss Too Much.”

    2. Kaleb*

      Seconding this. I am autistic and have ADHD, and am very similar to the OP in terms of being ‘extra’. It’s something I’m working on as well, trying to find the right balance of not being overwhelming/speaking over people while still holding on the positive qualities (I am in a social justice field, so being confident to speak up when you see something wrong is an asset) and not getting exhausted from masking too much.

      On top of this, though, I am a trans man. So I have had this same personality all my life, but I’ve seen first-hand the difference between how it was received when people perceived me as a woman (‘extra’, overwhelming, bossy, too loud, arrogant) to as a man (confident, assertive, full of ideas, good leadership qualities). Literally the only difference is a beard, a different name, and a deeper voice.

  73. samwise*

    I am not neurodivergent, but I have almost always been “extra”. It took a long time to learn how to allow space for others to speak and contribute and how to phrase things so that they were not hurtful. I put a lot of energy over the years to thinking about how to say things and to remind myself not to always jump up and speak. That was not making myself small — that was being supportive and collaborative.

    I still have a reputation as someone who will speak up when something is seriously wrong or unjust. I am ok being the person who will ask the dean uncomfortable questions in an open meeting, when others don’t feel they can (I get texts and chats from those folks thanking me). I’m not rude or mean, but when directness is needed, I’m your person.

    I will say it took a long time — and some people going on to other employers — for people to admire me for these qualities. There are a few people who actively hold onto the memory of the old obnoxious me, but at this point, that’s their problem, they’re in the minority.

    All this to say — you may or may not be able to leave behind the really negative parts of your rep at this employer, and even if you can, it can take a long time.

  74. Jake*

    “Because the thing is, so much of what you described about yourself are good things: initiative, competence, ideas”

    This is the most important part of Alison’s whole answer. You should only stay if you honestly believe you can change their opinions WITHOUT changing the initiative, competence, and ideas, which frankly, might not be possible.

  75. Moose*

    I just wanted to chime in and say calling someone “Little Miss” anything at work is very rude and inappropriate. No one should be talking to people that way at work. If this is how people are talking to each other at your job, then there are bigger problems with the work environment than just your previous behavior.

  76. BobCat*

    You just glossed over this:
    Say something to somebody, like “I’m sorry for being obnoxious in the past and I’m trying so hard to be better – so please stop talking about me”?

    YES – Say this to EVERYBODY who makes a comment! Let them know that you are aware of your past indiscretions and that you are making a conscious effort to fix them. Ask them to please forgive the past and to judge you only for your future actions.
    They would have to be cold as ice to not respect this!

    1. Perihelion*

      It shouldn’t be necessary to keep apologizing. Reasonable people don’t hold “being extra” against a person this long, let alone make snide comments.

      1. BobCat*

        My point was that OP should let these people know that she is aware of the situation and is actively doing something about it. I agree that an apology is not warranted however.

    2. Bluebonnet*

      I don’t think apologizing would help anything. if anything, it would make the LW across as a door mat to the “mean girl” middle managers.

  77. Freelance Bass*

    Wow, what a cruel thing for that manager to say to you, LW. I like Alison’s advice here. A new job will not only help you start fresh, but hopefully find a work culture that fits better, and where managers don’t bully their employees. Take what you’ve learned from this job and use it to rock whatever’s next!

  78. Rosyglasses*

    I can commiserate as well. I’m now in a new org and not the “top dawg” anymore, and it’s a much larger org. Even as an exec, I think I am “too much” – the things that drove me up to the top of my old org aren’t the things that are going to help me be successful here – but trying to suppress my natural tendencies is a challenge for sure!

  79. AngryOwl*

    OP, regardless of how you’ve acted in the past, the comments you’ve shared here are mean, unprofessional, and unnecessary. I’m sorry they’re talking to you that way, and you don’t somehow deserve it because you may have been “too much” in the past.

    You may well have to leave, but I’d say it’s because of a culture that allows this kind of behavior towards you than your past reputation.

  80. Laure001*

    What about replying to the “Hee hee, you’re so extra!” with a smiling/cheerful/amused answer, like :
    – “Ah but am I, really?”
    – “I don’t know. When you think about it, I’m pretty normal.”
    – “You know, I sometimes wonder if it’s not just a reputation I got.”
    – “Really? Why?”
    – “Eh, I don’t know. Don’t you think there’s way worse than me?”
    – “Nah, when you think about it, it’s not really true.”

    1. Zoe Karvoupsina*

      That might work speaking to someone on the same level, but I’d be wary of saying it to a manager.

  81. MagicEyes*

    Your coworkers are incredibly rude! Are they also rude in other ways? It sounds like that’s acceptable in your workplace, so it really might be time to look for another job with more respectful people.

  82. People should stop being jerks*

    The comments where people are saying things like “well of course *you’d*…” strike me as pretty unkind. You might try labeling that in the conversation.

    Pause. “Hmm. That came out somewhat unkindly. Is that how you meant it?” Then wait. Maybe add a confused “hmm, that sort of response is unlike you,” and move on.

  83. Introverted Pokemon*

    The second to last paragraph is what really grabbed my attention here. It doesn’t sound like you need to rehab your reputation, OP; it sounds like you need a new job. For women on the spectrum, it can be really hard to resist the pressure to keep your head down, shut up, and make yourself as invisible/inaudible as possible (except to periodically say That Thing Everyone Was Thinking But No One (except you!) Would Possibly Say Out Loud). Once you become the “quirky” or “extra” one, it’s almost impossible to shake the label off without reeinforcing it further. But once you do silence yourself, you may find yourself too afraid to speak again.

    These middle managers, simply put, are butt-hats. They’re behaving in highly ableist and exclusionary ways, and maybe they’re feeling a bit power-trippy or even jealous (who honestly knows what they’re thinking). See if you can bond with other people at work who like your work and welcome your energy and enthusiasm. See if you can put out feelers for another company/job that may feature more empathetic coworkers. You don’t need to keep enduring this discrimination at the expense of who you are.

    1. Bluebonnet*

      As a woman in the process of getting an autism diagnosis, I wholeheartedly agree with and relate to your comment.

  84. Boof*

    In the short term – any time someone makes one of those jabs, the kind that sting, literally say that! Make a big wince and say “Ouch!”. Then move along. That is their short and sweet in-the-moment feedback that they are being unkind.

  85. Cheap-Ass Hellmouth*

    You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here, so I won’t belabor it. I will send you solidarity as someone who is also A Lot, and is trying to balance passion and skill at my job with making room for others. Maybe if you frame these changes you’ve been making as “making space for others” rather than as “fixing” parts of you that are “wrong,” it will feel more like growth rather than suffocation of your sense of self. Regardless whether you choose to stay at this job or go, I wish you nothing but the best

  86. ResuMAYDAY*

    Career Coach here. Hi OP! After reading your narrative, there’s a question I’m dying to ask. You mention frequently that you’re now thinking before speaking, and that you’re brushing up on small talk, among other things. (Those aren’t easy habits to change, so way to go!) The one thing you haven’t mentioned is asking questions. Do you ask people how they’re doing, and then genuinely listen to their answer? (Listen fully, without thinking about your response while they’re talking.) When someone makes a suggestion, do you ask questions not as push-back, but to fully understand and encourage their perspective or idea?
    It’s quite possible that you do this, and just didn’t mention it within everything you’ve shared. But take some time to think on this. As I read how you describe the other people’s reactions, it sounds to me like these people want you hear them, as much as they hear you.
    I hope this advice is helpful, because you deserve to be your most vibrant self.

  87. Former Retail Manager*

    OP….I think that the advice to speak with a trusted co-worker, and as some commenters have mentioned, to your manager, is great advice. But I’d also strongly consider polishing up your resume, securing a solid reference or two, and moving on to bigger and better things, taking with you all of the lessons that you’ve learned.

    It also pains me to say this, but if these people have gotten to the point that they are making snide remarks TO YOUR FACE, even after your efforts to make changes, I shudder to think what else has been said about you behind closed doors. In my experience, most people are not that ballsy, so if people have gotten to the point where they feel comfortable making those types of comments to you (which is blatantly disrespectful), they are completely fed up and either don’t care about the consequences or they know that the higher ups who might impose such consequences feel the same way about you, so they’ll face no repercussions. If you were my friend, I’d strongly suggest you move on and start fresh.

    Trying to shake a bad reputation is an uphill battle and will likely stifle your career progression by costing you promotions and developmental assignments that you might be awarded elsewhere without the reputation hanging over your head. If you look at it in terms of earnings, you could lose $5-$10k per year (maybe more depending on your industry) by staying in a position where you aren’t progressing & over time that all adds up. Good luck OP and take it all as a learning experience and keep doing great things. I hope you find your “work people.”

  88. Ceanothus*

    You describe a lot of masking, OP! That sounds like a fast-track to burnout! Please take care of yourself.

    I have a few tips (from a very similar personal situation) in addition to Alison’s excellent advice.
    – Respond with startled a startled and wounded expression when someone says something rough. This is a long game, and maybe relies on some privilege I have — but often other people will see that as a cue that someone is being mean instead of “fun”, and ask them about it later. It can be a tool for external reflection for people who bully, and can make some things about a work culture clear to others.
    – Dialectical behavior therapy specifically can help reduce the distress of people being mean and give you a clear understanding of the dynamics of meanness.
    – Divide and conquer. It’s useful to look at who specifically from a clique is being a jerk and likely reasons why. There are people who hold a grudge, and you can usually charm them out of a grudge. There are people who are mean because of resentment, and that’s usually a lost cause. There are people who are gruff and grumpy, and that’s not personal. There are people who are mean because it’s a la mode and honestly, OP’s ability to shift specifically the opinions of the people who are mean because it’s socially advantageous is going to determine whether it’s worth staying in this job.

    1. Zoe Karvoupsina*

      Keep in mind, though, that responding with a startled and wounded expression might lead people to think ‘X is oversensitive’ or ‘X can’t take criticism’. It’s something you can deploy a few times, but it would be very easy to overdo.

      1. Boof*

        Yeah, that’s why i suggest an exaggerated wince and “ouch!” – don’t try to show genuine hurt more just make it clear that you know it’s mean but you’re rolling on

  89. June First*

    Another late-diagnosis ADHDer here. I was diagnosed midway through a long stint in one job. My diagnosis, therapy and meds helped a LOT but coworkers still thought of me as the messy person. (There were other reasons I was messy, but still. Also, I have since learned that adding these footnotes to add context is totally an ADHD style of writing.)

    I was apologizing to a coworker once for being TOO MUCH and he said something very kind:
    “You are not too much. Those other people aren’t enough.”

  90. Zephy*

    Call me “Little Miss” *anything* and you’re gonna meet Little Miss Catch These Hands.

    I’ll add my voice to the chorus of “that manager is an ass.” There is not a context that makes that an OK thing to say to or about a coworker at any level.

    Also +1 that you’re doing/trying to do a LOT of masking in an effort to “be less,” and that is a very energy-intensive thing to do. If you want to spend all of your non-work time just recharging from pretending to be an entirely different person, by all means that’s your prerogative, but it would probably feel better overall to not have to do that.

  91. BL*

    LW, I am going to say something that will probably get me flamed.

    Move on. Regardless if it’s intentional or not, or the middle managers are unprofessional or not, human nature what it is, subjective, flawed beings we are, you will not be able to fix this.

    I am you. 29 years in my industry. Known for being the one to get things done, fix it, a go to person. I am also abrasive and at times EXHAUSTING to be around (imagine living in my brain). You can’t outlive this reputation. I’m sorry.

    1. TQB*

      I see no reason for flaming here. You’ve found a niche where your gifts are valued. OP should do the same and stop wasting her time with people who want to make her be someone else.

  92. Gh0st*

    As an autistic person this letter is really relatable- from my perspective, it reads as an insular clique mocking a neurodivergent person for said neurodivergence- perhaps with some misogyny mixed in. Which, whether the offending managers realize it or not, is bullying LW for a disability.

    LW, however you choose to deal with this is up to you and what feels comfortable, but please know that you have reasonable footing to escalate this if you want (assuming that’s an option at your job). Personally, I tend to just leave places where I encounter a lot of bullying, but not before making some sort of formal complaint.

    P.S. LW, you might enjoy the book “Unmasking Autism,” by Dr. Devon Price. I found it really helpful when I first learned I was on the spectrum.

  93. Brain sparkles*

    Hey OP!
    This made me feel sad for you – I can strongly relate to the feeling of having to make yourself less, and that you’ll never fit in. I have LOTS of thoughts…

    – How important is this group of middle managers? Are they in YOUR management chain? Are they generally respected? Are they likely to step into upper management roles?
    – Could this behaviour be motivated by jealousy/trying to put you in your place?
    – What’s your reputation with everyone else like? Don’t over focus on this group, and ignore senior leadership/close colleagues’ opinions.
    – It’s incredibly hard to prove a negative. Instead of trying to show that you don’t make insensitive comments anymore, consider if there’s a way you can actively demonstrate sensitivity. Or become known for some other trait – asking curious questions, etc.
    – Dont change everything about yourself – being excited about work is a GOOD thing! As are many of the things you describe about yourself.
    – 100% agree to talk to your manager/mentor/trusted colleague about this.
    – Finally, is this a place you WANT to stay at? Even if you fixed this issue, would you still find yourself spending a lot of effort trying to fit in? There are places where ND people are supported and appreciated for what they bring to the table – you sound like a great colleague, you deserve to be able to thrive and really staff your wings.
    Good luck!

  94. An Autistic Reader*

    I am autistic and this letter breaks my heart. LW, you have many invaluable gifts, and your team is benefiting from them. But some of the people in power are choosing to make a butt of the ways in which you are different, lazily failing to recognize or value your differences. This is their failing. Everyone is annoying sometimes, them included, and we all have to accommodate each other. The answer should NOT be for you to work so hard to mask your neurodivergence. You deserve to exist as you are. Obviously you’re already taking care to be considerate and flexible. How hard are they working?! They need to be better. The double empathy problem comes to mind. You deserve a team that values who you are, and you move on from this place, it will be their loss.

  95. Anna*

    Is this a library? Really feels like a library.
    Perhaps I’m reading into it though because this letter almost feels like past me wrote it.

    I work in a nationally recognized library system. My bosses and managers across the system appreciate my “extra-ness”, although I know many of my peers resented me even when I was trying to make myself smaller to fit in. I was eventually promoted to a department where everyone is extra. Even though I am intimidated by my amazing peers, I am appreciated by them, and it feels great. Some work cultures are just toxic, unfortunately. Though she doesn’t provide many practical tips, other library workers I know have said reading Kaetrena Davis Kendrick has been validating.

    Alison’s advice to change workplaces is good, but maybe not so realistic if you live in an area with one library system of the type where you work and you don’t want to move. It is getting easier to move from one type of library to another, though. Something to consider.

    Good luck! Sorry if I was wrong about the library thing and this is totally useless!

  96. Dandylions*

    I agree that it’s best to leave. “First impressions are very important” is a saying for a reason.

    Kind of reminds me of a letter earlier this year where a good performer was being harassed by 3 people over some bad behavior in a meeting she was in over a year before. As illogical as it can be, a lot of people will keep their first impression of you and not see the change.

  97. alex*

    As someone else on the spectrum, this letter broke my heart. I could have written this letter about my teenage self. In high school I was outspoken, enthusiastic, outgoing, and full of ideas I was excited to talk about. I spoke up frequently in class, participated actively, and was praised frequently by my teachers for taking initiative. It took very little time for me to get branded a know-it-all and a loudmouth. Teachers would comment patronizingly whenever I raised my hand like, “Well, of course *you* want to answer, but you have to let other people talk” (I raised my hand, dude, you could just not call on me! I’m not shouting over my classmates!) and the other kids picked up on it and started making fun of me too, often with the teachers laughing along as if it was just good-natured teasing. But it destroyed me. I stopped speaking in class, I started sitting near the back, and my grades plummeted. In college I struggled in classes where participation was a component because I had so much anxiety over being mocked by the teacher for raising my hand too much that I never spoke up at all. It took me years to learn how to be myself again.

    You are not the asshole here. Decent people — especially decent MANAGERS, my god! — do not say things like “of course you’d say something inappropriate” or call their employees names like “Little Miss Too Much.” You sound like a conscientious, kind, enthusiastic, and thoughtful person, and like someone I would be thrilled to work with. It sounds to me like you have taken all the necessary steps — figuring out how to tell when you’re not in your lane, listening more in meetings, etc. Beyond that, do not let these jerks convince you you need to water yourself down or stop talking altogether. You are allowed to take up space. Sending you much love.<3

  98. AtomVancouver*

    I’m really troubled by the many comments that seem to skate by the fact that OP is writing about being teased and treated badly because of a condition that is considered a disability. The teasing is mean, illegal, and wrong. I understand that this may not be something that really can be stamped out, and I get the impulse to “apologize,” but I’d like it if we could see this through the lens of discrimination and plain old harassing.

    I’m so sad and I’m sickened by the idea that adults treat each other this way.

    2. Pizza Rat*

      Disability or not, teasing is mean, especially when the LW is making considerable effort not to overmodulate.

  99. Ivyflies*

    Don’t let other people steal your light OP. Don’t lesson yourself and everything you have to offer to the world. This place doesn’t deserve you and these managers – with their passive aggressive comments and their jabs that bring you down – are not creating an environment where you can thrive. Find a place that lets you shine and that appreciates all that you have to offer. You shouldn’t need to bring yourself down or to change who you intrinsically are to make other people feel better about their own mediocrity.

    There’s something to be said about learning and listening to social queues, but this goes beyond that. You’ve outgrown this place.

  100. K*

    I actually think those comments by management were super rude and out of line. It would be within their purview to maybe have a quiet word with you about how your behaviour is coming across, that would be a kindness for a manager to do. But humiliating you in front of everyone else like that with “of course you have a question”? That’s just mean. In my opinion it shows bad management, and is a reason to go find a different workplace.

  101. Bows are the best pasta*

    Hey OP

    I relate to a lot of this letter. I overrcorrected. In my latest job I ended up being criticised for not speaking up more in meetings, not giving feedback on wider thing beyond my remit, not knowing people outside those I work with directly.

    (I get along very well with coworkers and there’s a handful I’m very friendly with, like going for lunch, talking about our lives etc, but I have felt that this is dependent upon keeping a professional but friendly distance, to minimise oversharing, high emotions etc.)

    I am not diagnosed with AuDhd but people have suggested to me that it might be worth exploring, especially the ADHD elements.

    All this is to say, you can’t follow all the things that people want to the letter because a) it’s contrary and b) you will lose so much that’s good.

  102. Bows are the best pasta*

    Also, the comments from colleagues sound a bit snarky, a bit sarcastic. That might be affectionate or it might be passive aggressive. Either way, it’s a terrible way to communicate anything important!

    Do you have a sense of whether those comments are intended as a way of indirectly communicating something negative, giving you information/feedback they want you to receive, but without taking responsibility for what they’re saying? (Ie passive aggressiveness.);

    Or are they generally not a passive aggressive person? Are they usually quite direct and clear? Are they generally kind or unkind to/about people? Does it fit their character that they would make a comment about something important in a jokey, indirect way, in front of others?

    Could it be more that a small handful of people affectionately refer to known attributes you have that are considered lightly enough to joke about?

    Nothing you’ve described, apart from telling people how to do their own jobs, is that outrageous.

    Finally, are you a woman? (Obv there’s no need to actually answer.) Because if so, sometimes we just get called “too much” for existing, for having any kind of shine, emotional variation, talent, or opinions whatsoever. Especially if we are neurodivergent.

  103. r..*

    It is possible you “went outside your lane” occasionally, but given the entire context I am not convinced that every one (or the majority or even a plurality) of those incidents indeed were “going outside your lane”.

    A good (middle) manager will be able to handle questioning why the company does things the way it does things from employees, as long at it isn’t excessive and about *everything*.

    They should be able to explain to the employee why the company does things the way they do things if it can be done without disclosing sensitive information, or to explain as much as they can and then effectively communicate the boundaries of where the employee will simply need to take the manager at their word.

    This may at times be bothersome, but employees who are genuinely interested in not only doing their job but show initiative in how the company could be better are rather rare and valueable. Having to handle this sort of inquisitive mind is the price you have to pay to have more of those valueable employees than your competitors.

    And, for what its worth, the “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much” manager? If the actual phrasing you shared is remotely to what they said, they are a jerk. Even if you did say something inappropriate that is no way for a manager to talk to a report.

  104. call me wheels*

    This one made me sad… these people sound mean and you sound sad LW with how hard you are trying. Even if you were ‘obnoxious’ before making mean comments is not appropriate, they should have been giving you proper feedback and help if your way of being was damaging your reputation. I hope you end up in a place where people appreciate your efforts and don’t tear you down.

  105. The Docs Doc*

    Re: the ‘of course you have a question’, I’d like to offer a different view. I recently heard these same words in a meeting, directed towards a colleague who most definitely is the ‘extra guy’ in our organisation. He’s meticulous, does his job extremely well, and has a ton of knowledge about all topics imaginable. Sure, he always has a question – but these questions are usually relevant and probing and need to be asked if we want to deliver a quality product. I suspect no one else asks them because we’re not paid enough to care that much, but I know people (myself included) respect our ‘extra guy’ for it (of course, some resent him because they cut corners initially, and have to redo their work properly due to his questions, but that’s on them). However, this means that at any given presentation, he *is* by far the most likely person to ask questions – and the ‘of course you have a question’ comment really just acknowledges that.

    I’m not saying that in your case, it was meant the same (especially given the exceptionally rude ‘of course you’d say something inappropriate’ comment you mentioned later in your letter), but maybe you could reframe it that way?

    1. commensally*

      Yes, I have a reputation at my work as being the one who “of course” always has a question – and it’s gotten me major opportunities, a recent promotion, and a lot of private thank-yous from the people leading the meetings who were frustrated at lack of response. It’s possible LW’s reputation isn’t as bad as they think it is.

      (Similarly, if the “say something inappropriate” comment was about what you were saying at the time, it was wildly rude. If it was in the context of you telling a possibly-funny-in-retrospect story about a time you did said something you acknowledged as having been inappropriate – it’s still not a great thing for a manager to say, and *they* may need to work on their social skills, but it may have been meant to signal “we know and appreciate you for who you are” not “the management finds you annoying”.)

  106. Justin*

    I got my ADHD dx BECAUSE of things like this at my last job. And I ultimately had to just leave (once I found a place where I’d be not just tolerated but embraced).

    Now my way of doing things is supported and valued. Sometimes you just have to go.

  107. Clem Fandango*

    I feel for this letter writer, I really do, but I manage a person like this and it is exhausting. She is works hard and is good at her job, but she just Will. Not. Stop. even after I’ve made it clear I need her to back off. She tells me things I already know, when I give her instruction about something, she makes it clear she when thinks I’m not handling it correctly, and she does not want to take feedback when I try to tell her some of the suggestions she makes aren’t appropriate for the moment or not to pushback when I lay out a plan for how we’re going solve a problem moving forward. I am trying really hard to balance the good things she does, which is take a problem and work it until it’s solved, with the things I need her to change, which is sometimes to just sit back, listen, and consider that maybe I’ve thought about what she is about to suggest and I’ve decided against it for some reason. We work completely remotely and she’s messages me on Teams during meetings to tell me I need to consider X, Y, or Z when I’m talking about something. Then when I write her back to tell her I have already thought of it, or this is why we’re doing it this way, she’ll write back “huh, well I thought. . .” and that would probably all be fine, but the “huh” is making it clear she thinks I’m off base. I’ve been considering writing Alison about what I need to change to manage her more effectively because she is good at her job and I don’t want her to stop making suggestions (really!) but sometimes I just need her to back off.

  108. lou*

    Hi OP, I haven’t read through all the comments so apologies if I’m duplicating advice.
    I’m autistic and I felt really sad reading your letter. As Alison points out, many of the traits you describe are really good things! You’ve worked really hard at addressing bad habits, like telling others how to do their job, but it sounds like you’ve reached a point where you’re making yourself less than. Smaller. You are masking SO hard and it hurts my heart to read.
    It sounds like you’re having issues with a group of people making snide comments, rather than your whole org regarding you with disdain. (Did this happen when you were at school too? Because it did to me and it sucked.) How do you feel about reacting with surprise (“Really? How odd”) or even leaning into it (cheerfully saying “yup, that’s me!” and then moving on)?
    Maybe you need to change jobs, but you really shouldn’t have to.

  109. Samesies*

    Also it’s okay to both realize you were bit “extra” while also acknowledging that your coworker’s comments are super rude and unnecessary.

    I think I was a little extra at my last job but that didn’t mean it was okay for my coworkers to talk about me behind my back when I was under 5 steps away in the next cube and could definitely hear them. I’ve since toned it down but that was still super rude of them, both can be true.

  110. Scootscootlaroute*

    I’m too much and it works for me. caveat: I like my exact job, no desire to move up or on. I’m sitting right where I want to be, have freedom to question status quo without having to kowtow to management, and can practice the way I deem appropriate. People notice and come to the one who’s “too much” to get things fixed/discussed. My motto: squeaky wheels get greased!

  112. Blarg*

    This middle manager clique sounds like a bunch of bullies who are jealous of the immediate contribution you made to the organization and the positive feedback you’ve received. It sucks to experience that — to be good, even great, at your job, and yet find it unwelcoming and unkind to some extent because you are good at it.

    I’m neurotypical but have very much experienced this. I was once called “quirky” by a supervisor which I took as a compliment, but quickly realized in this case it was “not like the others, in a bad way.” I literally got an evaluation at that job that said there were no concerns about my work and patients liked me, but that I did not fit in. Hospitals: great places to work; I left shortly after.

    Which is all to say, certainly go to therapy, rely on trusted coworkers for feedback, and try to be the best version of you that you want to be. BUT. Don’t squash your spirit and your ideas and your enthusiasm. The bullies will always find something about the person they don’t like. Be you, and don’t let the a-holes bring you down.

  113. Same boat*

    Sending encouragement. I also am neurodivergent and had the “too much” problem in school and previous jobs. The masking is really hard and I eventually saved my personality for close friends & family. I’m known as warm but pretty quiet at my current job.

    From management I get “your work is great but you need to be more outspoken/social/chatty” I don’t think I can do it the way management would want. I do not work in a customer facing environment. Idk, it’s hard.

  114. DramaQ*

    Fellow extra person here. Oh LW I cringed when I read the “Little Miss comment”. I too when reading it felt the overwhelming urge to start over correcting my personality and masking even more than I already do.

    I am going to say find another job. A lot of the things you describe are GOOD things, like Alison said. You need to find a place that will lean into your personality and utilize it, not one that puts you down.

    No matter how hard you try you are not going to “correct” their views of you. And this is not a YOU problem! This is a THEM problem.

    I have been struggling in my current job with a manager who thinks ADHD/dyslexia is just laziness and if I were to try harder I wouldn’t do some of the things I do. She also does not like my personality and is constantly trying to correct it to the point it drug down my review because she thinks I am too loud and don’t smile enough.

    Here is the thing though . . .NOBODY else I work with or deal with day to day thinks that about me! Yet I continue to focus on trying to please and make the management like me which is exhausting and leading to burn out/resentment. It’s something I am working on in therapy.

    I do have a “reputation” for being crazy but it is good natured teasing from my coworkers. I am “crazy” because I am assertive and take charge of my job which are GOOD things. Previous jobs I’ve had recognized this and turned me loose in areas where it would be of most benefit for them for me to shine.

    Here they want me in the corporate box they have designed for me/my position and I am chafing.

    That is not to say I cannot mask. I have come a very long way from my 20s when first starting out in the working world. I had a very good manager/mentor who helped me sand down my rougher edges and taught me office politics. I’ve had coworkers comment I freak them out at how well I can play the game meanwhile they would have walked off the job a long time ago.

    But that isn’t the same as trying to erase my entire personality. A manager calling you “Litte Miss Too Much” to your face is a HIM problem. As everyone else has said would he call a man that in a meeting if he spoke up too much? I bet not. This manager WANTS to silence you and WANTS you to be a good little girl who knows her place. You’re getting attention from higher ups which he is interpreting as a direct threat to his position. He knows you are better than him at X and wants to smack you down before you become a contender for either his current position or whatever position he is eyeballing above that.

    There are several really good books on ADHD in the workplace and about women in particular. I suggest you get on Amazon and buy a few. They were really eye opening for me. One I even started crying because I felt so seen for the first time in my life. I am not weird, I am not odd, I do not need to “fix” myself. That is neurotypical people trying to shove me into what they consider normal.

    My therapist said normal is a setting on a dryer, not a label for people. I CAN mold my personality to work for the job at hand but I can’t change people’s views of me. I need to move on and let go.

  115. Devon*

    Wow, these middle management coworkers sound horrid – This isn’t anything akin to “constructive feedback.” They’re clearling using LW’s admitted past mistakes as an excuse to get little digs in a bid to tear down LW’s confidence and sense of self worth at every opportunity. LW, I don’t think an apologetic posture is appropriate to the situation anymore. In fact, I hope that you calmly, but confidently call them out and shut it down the next time someone wants to belittle you for being yourself. Where do they get off thinking that it’s OK to publicly shame you for raising your hand to ask a question? How is it OK to call you names ever – “Little Miss Too Much” – WTF?!! I don’t care what social faux pas you may or may not have committed in the past. That’s not cool! You’ve done the work of self reflecting and have owning up to the things that you could have done better. No one owes you a clean slate and if they want to decide that they just don’t like you for any reason at all, they can do that – their loss! But no one has the right to mistreat you. You do, in fact, deserve decency and professionalism. No one is socially fluid and flawless all of the time and people who harrangue and nitpick like this are bullies who aren’t dealing in good faith. They make a game of using your own self awareness and desire to be and do better as a weapon to tear you down. They suck – and they are certainly *not* charming. You on the other hand – I bet you’re delightful! I bet you’re awesome to work with and that most people find YOU to be *incredibly* charming. I wish you all the best!

  116. Laser99*

    IME work criticism is often coded. Just like “We feel you’re not a good cultural fit” means “You’re not white.”
    “You’re going too fast” means “I’m lazy and it shows in comparison.” “You sure talk a lot” means “I’m annoyed you are so much more articulate than I am.” “You’re always so dressed up” means “You look a lot better than I do, and I resent it.”

  117. CommanderBanana*

    LW, FWIW, I am a person who often gets shaded for being ‘too much,’ but weirdly, I’m also the first person people turn to to solve a problem or handle an exploding workload, a project that is blowing up or a difficult client. Weird, isn’t it?

    It was totally inappropriate for that middle manager to refer to you that way, and if they reported to me, I would have disciplined them.

    Being “too much” is just a way that other people try to smash down smart, hardworking, and creative women. I don’t think you’re the problem. I think your workplace is, and I hope you find a place that encourages your strengths instead of trying to dull them.

    1. CommanderBanana*

      Also? I was constantly told my opinions weren’t wanted for the first few years at my last job, then I stopped offering my opinions…then I got put on a PIP for not “making proposals or offering solutions” because projects started blowing up because I didn’t point out issues when I saw them. Because I was being shit all over for doing that, but somehow was…not supposed to stop doing?

      Some workplaces and managers just suck and the best thing you can do is leave.

      1. DramaQ*

        Not a PIP but I got a bad 1:1 because I “didn’t ask enough questions”. Okay so I started asking a lot of questions when learning/training. In my actual review I got a bad score because now I “asked too many questions”.

        How on Earth can I be BOTH?!

        It is because the goal posts keep moving. She picked up I am neurodivergent and have a tendency to want to people please. By constantly changing how I am expected to mask it keeps me off kilter. I don’t have the brain space/mental energy to devote to developing myself when I am too busy running in place.

        It’s exhausting and I am looking to switch jobs. You can’t win against managers who behave like that and feel it is acceptable to call people lazy (my case) or “Little Miss Whatever”.

  118. RN*

    I don’t have the answer but I just so relate to this post! Experiences like these are exactly why I sought my diagnosis for ASD.

  119. Tula*

    It sounds like OP was spending capital they did not have. I feel like its a common mistake of new employees. Not everything in an organization can be prioritized for change. I worked with a co-worker who was an extreme version of what was described and it was like everything we did was a fight in how we did it. The simplest things would be a 50 minute debate. It is exhausting to constantly have to change your work flow because one person does not like how it is done.

  120. Lara*

    It can be easy to blame yourself when you’re on the spectrum. But I want to point out that your managers are being incredibly rude and unprofessional. If they have actual concerns about your communication style, they should raise it with you and coach you, not make childish snide comments.

  121. MeowMix*

    OP, I connect so deeply with what you wrote in your post! I had to make a really tough choice to leave my last job, that I really loved. No matter what I tried over several years, my manager was holding on to impressions of me as an overeager young woman, even after I became a director. I also think there was some jealousy / guarding of status / sexism at play, and some unkindness from various coworkers related to that. It was truly exhausting to mask my enthusiasm and thoughts every day and to suppress what I most liked about myself. I realized that I didn’t want to train myself that those things were bad and needed to be changed. I was able to get a new position and am so much happier than I thought I could be elsewhere. They love my enthusiasm and my new manager is much better at things like giving me clear goals that help me stay on track. I wish I hadn’t waited so long to try something new. It was such a positive thing to start over and find a better fit and I’m so glad that I eventually made the leap. If that sounds at all possible to you, I really encourage you to try something new!

  122. Bruiser Woods*

    Just wanted to add my perspective to balance out the previous comments. I’ve had to work with colleagues that overstep in my job and doing that can make work very frustrating and unpleasant for your coworkers. People that have done that to me and I noticed those they typically don’t have an accurate assessment of their own abilities verses others. I noticed you assessed your performance with a glowing review but maybe it’s not as good as what you think. I noticed the people who overstepped in my job did seem to overestimate their abilities and underestimate mine. I suspect I am also in the spectrum but it plays out in a different way. My technical work is very strong and I’ve also worked alot on changing the way I present to people recently. In the past I’ve tended to be more passive and reflected low confidence which means others feel the need to overstep into my job. Deep down I am confident and have my job under control and am thinking of things others may not have thought about so it can be quite irritating to receive advice I have not asked for. So just a perspective what it feels like to be on the receiving end. So self reflection is useful however it sounds like you have done alot of this. I totally agree you shouldn’t be masking (this will definitely lead to burn out!). Also the ‘little Miss’ comment, is completely patronising, sexist and unacceptable regardless of anything you have done. I would be job searching for this reason alone.

  123. AskingForAFriend..*

    I used to live in a country where the ‘tall poppy syndrome’ was rife… and I have ADHD too. Maybe use some of the feedback as self reflection but don’t make yourself so small you stop being good at what you do. Is there a way to laugh it off or make a joke about it? For example if someone says “oh of course you have an opinion” say something like “yep that’s me! My brain thinks of a million scenarios to check!” or “Yep, what you said inspired me to consider XYZ”. Bring them back into the fold and show them that’s what makes you good at what you do.

  124. Penny Pingleton*

    You can master small talk and pull back your self-aggrandizement, but it sounds like it’s time to genuinely appreciate others. Have you tried respecting what your colleagues may have accomplished before you hit the scene with your superior ideas? Does your ego drive you to always prove you’re the smartest in the room? Start there.

  125. ADHD Librarian*

    Another fellow ADHD-er here. Also very “extra.” I was lucky to be diagnosed pretty early but have struggled with how I’ve “come off” to certain people and I’ve learned that while I’m not always someone else’s cup of tea, there’s nothing inherently wrong with me. It already sounds like you’re doing some course correction, and yes, look into what colleagues have done, but don’t bend over backwards just to be considered “acceptable.” I’ve found a work environment where my initiative, creativity, and ideas are welcomed. I have faith that you will too.

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