how do I live down a reputation for being “extra”?

by Alison Green on October 8, 2024

A reader writes:

How does one shake a reputation at work for being “extra”?

Three years ago, I joined my current organization and quickly became known as a go-getter, an innovator, and someone good at their job. Senior level colleagues would learn about programs I had developed, express admiration, and ask to borrow the idea. I won our organization a notable grant that earned a fair degree of local industry recognition. The community partners I worked with gushed about how glad they were I was in my position.

Yet at the same time, apparently a tight-knit group of middle managers branded me as “too much.” And I understand why. I could be outspoken in meetings, at times questioning why we did things the way we did (our industry is known to be mired in “because we’ve always done it that way” culture). From time to time, I would get excited about a potential organization-wide initiative and suggest improvements to a colleague’s workflow, later realizing I was “driving outside my lane” and trying to tell someone else how to do their job. A coworker would ask what was new with me and, instead of responding with a one- or two-sentence stock answer, I would give a longer response as though the question wasn’t just a passing pleasantry. Yes, I recently realized I am somewhere on the spectrum and that these faux pas are typical of a person like me.

Over the past year, I have been trying very, very hard not to be “so extra.” While I have continued to deliver solid work and develop new programs, I have made it a point to do more listening in meetings and try to read the room before offering my two cents. When I notice how some activity or project could be improved, I ask myself, “Is this actually under my purview? Would making a suggestion be telling someone how I think they should do their job?” And then I keep it to myself accordingly. Before I walk into a situation where I might mix with middle management or people I feel I’ve over-blabbed to in the past, I rehearse short, pleasant passing interchanges. I’ve been to therapy and I’m trying to prove to my colleagues I’m a good member of the team.

The problem is, my “too much” reputation seems to have been ensconced in our organizational folklore. I get the feeling that I have been talked about by the middle management clique and have become a sort of running joke. I attended a big department-wide meeting a while ago headed by one of these staffers, and at the end they asked if there were any questions. I raised my hand. Their immediate response: “Of course you have a question.” I felt stung, embarrassed in front of all my peers, and didn’t really know how to react.

A few weeks ago, I worked at an off-site tabling event with another middle manager – one I’d found reasonably friendly in the past – and rehearsed my small talk beforehand and reminded myself that anything foolish or insensitive I said could be shared with others in the organization. And I was so good at the event! I didn’t blab on. I gave appropriate, casual responses to small talk. I kept things light and pleasant. Then somewhere towards the end, the middle manager made some passing remark akin to, “Well, of course you’d say something inappropriate in that situation” or “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much.” I felt completely defeated. I worked so hard to behave so well, only to get stereotyped nonetheless.

How do I rehab my reputation within this organization? Keep on the steady road I’m on, demonstrating I can not say the stupid things I said in the past, hoping that maybe 5-10 years from now I might be well regarded? Just not talk in meetings at all, even when it’s called for? Do my best to avoid the middle management clique? Say something to somebody, like “I’m sorry for being obnoxious in the past and I’m trying so hard to be better – so please stop talking about me”?

I hate feeling like a joke and that people are just waiting for me to make another transgression reinforcing the negative image they have of me. I just want to do my job, embrace the process of doing good work, and not feel like a pariah in this place where I spend 40 hours a week.

Sometimes the easiest way to rehab your reputation is to change jobs and start fresh, because when people are used to seeing you a certain way, it can be very hard to change that — and even if you’re 99% different than you used to be, sometimes that 1% will reinforce their old image of you in their minds.

Not always! Sometimes a sustained, concerted effort to change things works.

But if it’s been a year and you’re still hearing snide comments … well, I don’t love the thought of you staying there and feeling constant pressure to Be Less.

Because the thing is, so much of what you described about yourself are good things: initiative, competence, ideas. And while you’re absolutely right that when those are misapplied, they can alienate people too — regularly telling coworkers how to do their jobs is definitely in that category — there’s good stuff here that I’d hate for you to lose in a drive to make people view you differently. And we know it was good stuff, because it was earning you accolades and admiration. If you stop talking in meetings or stop offering new ideas, you’ll lose that. I understand the temptation — this thing that you thought was helpful turned out to have a double edge you didn’t see coming, and it probably feels like you had the rug pulled out from under you when you thought things were going well, and so it might feel safer to make yourself much smaller — but I don’t want you to over-correct either.

Do you have any colleagues who you trust to have good judgment, the ability to read the room, and a strong familiarity with the various players in your organization? If so, I urge you to run this question by them — not just “how do I can rehab my reputation here?” but “can I rehab my reputation here?” and see what they think. Who knows, maybe you’ll hear you’ve already done it with most people and the middle manager who made those comments is the odd person out and doesn’t hold much influence with anyone else. Or maybe you’ll hear that yeah, you’ve got a tough road ahead if you stay. But they’ll be able to give you a read on how this is playing out in your organization specifically.

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{ 158 comments }

{ 158 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Gem*

    LW, I can’t offer advice but I can commiserate. I’ve been trying to do the same thing for years (really bad ADHD here and it absolutely effects how I communicate) and at this point find myself wracked with social anxiety eight hours a day. Rehearsing small talk can only get me so far and then I’m absolutely terrified to talk any more because I know how loathsome, opinionated and assertive I can come across when I’m just chit-chatting naturally. Has anyone else figured out a way to fundamentally change their personality to become more likable? Because these days I’m at the end of my rope.

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    1. Anon and on and on and on and on and on*

      I am this way and I have spent so much of my adult life (I didn’t understand what was wrong with me as a child and always tried to fix the wrong things) trying to figure it out and fix it but it just makes me weirder and more inappropriate and more anxious and more self conscious.

      Then I became self employed to minimize how often I would feel this way. It helps in the day to day as I only interact with a couple of people and I can’t be an embarrassment as much or as badly. But when I have to interact with others – consultants, collateral contacts, other professionals – it is now much much much worse because I am out of practice. Truly hoping for some good insights in this thread because I have already spent my 20s and 30s like this. I want my 40s to have better connections.

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      1. Edwina*

        I have just been diagnosed with ADD, and at least I now know why these sorts of things are hard for me, too. I, also, have lately been holding back when I realize my comments would be redundant or telling someone how to do their job. it’s such an effort. It’s helpful to know that with coaching and medication, these situations might become less fraught for me.

        I want to second what Alison said: “… the thing is, so much of what you described about yourself are good things: initiative, competence, ideas.” I hope the OP keeps this in mind while she figures out her next steps.

        And I agree with commenters below about the middle manager’s comments being mean and obnoxious. What a jerk.

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    2. DCompliance*

      Well, I have a family member with ADHD and he took some classes on how his brain works and it helped with communications.
      But changing your personality is too much pressure to put on yourself. Better managing our flaws (which we all have, ADHD or not) is a more feasible goal. Good luck to you.

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      1. Katrina*

        Appreciate the intention here, but “we all have flaws” really minimizes how hard masking can be for neurodivergent people. It takes up a lot of brain energy and can leave you mentally exhausted after a full day of it. Because all that stuff that occurs naturally to the majority of people (like how much info is too much info, how loud is too loud, what’s the correct amount of eye contact) has to be processed and considered before speaking.

        Yes, we can improve how we communicate, but it’s still something we have to actively be working at whenever we do it. It’s not a “flaw” like a bad habit we can just work our way out of. (And a lot of us have struggled mightily thinking we *should* be able to do that and wondering why we fail over and over.)

        We kinda have to put pressure on ourselves to a certain extent because if we completely ease up and speak how we naturally would, people tend not to like that very much. Yes, there’s a balance to be had, but there’s also the practicality of wanting people to generally like and accept you.

        I don’t mean any of this as a criticism or anything–just hoping to explain the contrast between having a flaw as in a bad habit that can be broken with practice and having a brain that’s wired differently.

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    3. Thinking*

      I’m sorry, I haven’t found that way. I have tried mightily. What did happen is I moved to another continent and became friends with a bunch of other seasoned travelers. It feels like we all felt a little out of place and because of that we understand each other.
      Yes, my experience isn’t repeatable, except that getting to know other neurodivergent folks sometimes helps.

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    4. ferrina*

      I’m ADHD, and I feel you. I’m sending you hugs if you want them.

      You can’t change who you are, but you can adapt how you express it. I have Opinions on certain TV shows, but I turn it into a joke- “oh my goodness, I have lasting trauma from that show! Let’s not get into it- no one needs to hear my rant!”

      ADHD folks are often very passionate by default. Can you channel that passion into something that is more approachable? My channel is listening and taking an interest in other people. It’s a challenge; listening with the intent of true understanding. Many neurotypical people don’t do this naturally either, but I’ve found that by channeling my unending interest in learning All Teh Things into listening, it gets me places. (note: I’ve also been through waaaaaay more workshops in listening techniques than literally anyone else I know. Partially because I teach them). I have a reputation for asking thoughtful questions (literally been invited to meetings because of my questions, not because of my knowledge). I’m known as friendly and approachable.

      The other thing that I’ve had to learn to do is redirect emotional responses. My emotions tend to immediately read on my face, so I’m constantly telling myself jokes to keep me more positive. It helps me give Golden Retriever energy (instead of Border Collie And The World Is My Sheep). For me, it helps to approach work as a non-competitive game. It makes it low stakes, so it’s easier for me to let go of my opinion. My objective isn’t to win or convince you, but to have you walk away with a good experience. It’s a mindset shift, and it’s really helped me.

      Of course, all ADHD is different, so take what works for you! Also- highly recommend the book Dirty Laundry by Richard Pink and Roxanne Emery. It’s about ADHD shame (Rox is ADHD; she and Rich also have the YouTube channel ADHD_love, which is one of my favorite things). Shame is a really, really common trait for ADHDers to have, precisely for the reasons you describe.
      *and of course ADHD me turns this response into an essay!

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      1. daffodil*

        “my objective isn’t to win or convince you, but to have you walk away with a good experience.”
        This is so smart. I don’t think I have diagnosable adhd but I share some traits, and enjoy a good infodump. I study and teach communication, so pushing my hyperfixate on effective listening/communicating has helped me build better relationships, much like what you describe here.

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  2. muffin*

    While OP does say they don’t like having this reputation, I would ask is it such a bad thing? No one is perfect and everybody has some faults at work. Maybe this is an ok one, especially if they are largely seen as a great contributor, with perhaps a big mouth sometimes – I think that’s ok. If it’s holding you back at work from promotions you want or impacting your raises or something then I would think harder about trying to change the perception or change jobs. But if it’s a matter of just not liking it when people comment on it, I’d say perhaps they feel comfortable commenting on it because you seem comfortable commenting on many things, so you project an openness which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

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    1. whyblue*

      +1
      There is nothing in the letter about the reputation holding OP back. Does it really need to change?

      I feel like I am in a similar situation in my company, but mostly due to the same action being judged differently depending on gender. I have taken a good hard look at the criticism, found a few things that I did want to change and decided to ignore the rest, reputation be damned. It is not holding me back, in fact a good amount of people like the outcomes I bring. I even make a point of alluding to it occasionally, along the lines of “I know you’ll find me annoying, but can we talk about X?”

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      1. College Career Counselor*

        I was coming here to say something similar. LW sounds like someone who has done a lot of work to manage impressions (trust me, most people aren’t thinking “does this need to be said, does this need to be said now, does this need to be said by me” as much as LW is).

        Lean into the positive aspects of the reputation (thoughtful, creative, motivated) and keep doing the self-regulation stuff to keep that from veering into the less-productive realm (offering unwanted advice, veering into someone else’s lane). And let the rest of it be ignored as much as you can. One thing that I have seen be successful is a colleague who became known as being “extra” and got taken less seriously for it, wound up cultivating relationships with different people in the organization (don’t know if this is possible at your org or not). This person had a lot of anxiety around (perceived) loss of reputation and finally decided that whatever the level of reputational loss was, it wasn’t going to define them. So they went out and spent time with other people in the org who valued their contributions and with whom they had common ground. Has gone a long way to reducing that colleague’s professional anxiety and has led to additional collaborative work that has significantly curtailed that person’s reputation as someone who is “too much.”

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      2. Nicosloanica*

        It’s true that a few snide comments may not be a barrier for OP’s ultimate success – there’s a world where you view that as Sour Grapes and move on with your bad self. It depends on whether there’s real power behind the concerns, the kind of thing that would hold OP back from future promotions/leadership or not.

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    2. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      As a former “too mucher”, this is a bad thing that is likely affecting promotions and responsibilities. Changing perceptions is hard, and even though I backed WAY off of sharing my two cents, the damage was done. I was known as a crap starter because the company said that they welcomed feedback to be more inclusive, but those were just words and were not backed up by policies, support, or actions. Eventually, there was a re-org and I was out of a job.

      I’m sorry OP, I think you have to leave the company to leave those perceptions behind. You might have some luck with pulling people aside that you have good relations with for feedback to improve. Maybe you will get some good advice? But what you really need is a sponsor to vouch for you, and correct those who still say you are “too much;” I don’t know if that is possible based on what you’ve said.

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      1. Medium Sized Manager*

        In contrast, I am a reformed “too mucher” and I have been promoted several times within the same company. The variance of why somebody is “too much” is massive and really could range anywhere from “I made process improvement recommendations out of scope” to “I regularly harassed my manager’s manager because I felt the team should get more PTO.” Ultimately, the LW needs to evaluate what is happening to her/in her culture vs. taking blanket statements at face value.

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        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          I was leaning toward interpreting the situation as something like this. In the best light, people are frustrated or annoyed or amused (not bemused, they shake their heads, like here she goes,) BUT they admit there is value. They feel like, dangit, I thought I’d looked at all the angles. “I hate to admit it, sigh, but she’s right.”
          My feeling changed with the remark: “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much.”
          That’s not feeling that OP has value. That diminishes her contributions and herself. “Little Miss” is not something you should say about a coworker.
          Little Miss Annoying Habit is definitely not something you say to a coworker.
          It’s more obnoxious in the female version, but Mr. Another Thing, Mr. Actually, Mr. Quadruple Check are pretty bad, too.
          I’d tell those fellows to head out to fresh pastures because the current ones are filled with bullshit.

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          1. Rook Thomas*

            Agreeing with this comment —- whether or not people might have feelings about your previous way of communicating/working with them, these statements about “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much” are unkind. Unprofessional and unkind. And uncalled for.

            When I got to that part of the post, I just wanted to reach out to OP and give them a hug. Please consider looking for a position somewhere else, where you can shine and be awesome. @Not Tom is right — move on to somewhere else (and be appreciated)!

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      2. weelittlemaggie*

        Yes, a SPONSOR! I hit the comments looking for this word. This [i]might[/i] be your manager, OP, but ideally you would find someone more senior than the middle manager cohort, someone who influences those people.

        You want to go to him/her/them for advice on how to navigate this within your organization (if you even can). Hopefully, you’ll build rapport and trust with this person, and then eventually they will start looking out for you, doing things like correcting the record when a middle manager calls you too much.

        Please let us know how it goes, OP! Wishing you all the best.

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      3. ferrina*

        Yes, this is likely to impact OP in subtle ways. Not being advocated for. Not being included in conversations. Not being seen as having leadership potential. New folks being given the message to “Avoid this person; they are a lot”.

        That said, I don’t think the answer is to change more. Sure, it’s good to get feedback from a trusted source on what you might be able to improve on, but it sounds like OP is battling against the past. That’s tough to change.

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    3. Owl-a-roo*

      I agree! I’ve been in a similar boat to OP at my own workplace, and it’s far easier to just own it and know that I’m not going to get along with everyone. In all-staff meetings with our VP, if none of our 200ish department has any questions, she occasionally specifically asks me if I have a question. I think it’s a fine reputation to have! I’ve also experienced the soul-searching of realizing that I sometimes step on toes, but I trust people to tell me when I do and have learned how to refrain from offering advice on things that are nowhere near my purview.

      One of my previous managers complained that I wouldn’t stay in my lane. This person has since been moved to a different “manager” position that doesn’t have any actual direct reports. The managers I’ve had since then appreciate my initiative and consult me on projects and big decisions. Other teams value my insight and come to me with complex problems because they know I can figure things out.

      It sounds like you don’t report to any of these middle managers, so you don’t need to worry about them! That middle manager’s comment could have warranted a deadpan stare with “that’s not very constructive or helpful. Can you explain what you mean by that?”

      A final thought: I became outspoken and driven at work because I observed other women in my workplace behaving in the same manner you’ve described here. They are all kickass employees who Get Shit Done. I am now a kickass employee who Gets Shit Done and do my best to model that behavior to new employees at my organization. You may well be inspiring the next go-getter at your workplace!

      Ignore the haters, remember that we all have flaws and can’t get along with everybody all the time, and keep shining brightly.

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      1. Burning Burner*

        You’ve touched on something important here: being outspoken and driven can be acceptable so long as it’s the way that other well-respected women at your organization behave. I’m not sure what’s going on in OP’s organization, but it’s dangerous to shine brightly if it’s too far outside cultural norms.

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    4. Dust Bunny*

      It’s sort of context-dependent. Is it inherently a bad thing? Not necessarily. Is it a bad thing if a recalcitrant workplace won’t let it go and refuses to revise its vision of you based on your current behavior? Yes. And if it’s them it may not be something you can fix.

      I don’t absolutely know that the LW’s workplace is like that but from what we have here it doesn’t sound very promising.

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    6. ScottW*

      Yeah. I can’t speak for their workplace culture, but this has always been me too. Like forever. And yes, it clearly alienates some people. When I’m quiet in a meeting, my last two supervisors have asked if I didn’t have something to say :-). But I’ve also been told repeatedly that I’m their most productive employee, I’ve gotten tons of bonuses and raises and as much promotion as someone in my role can. I can’t change my basic personality so I’ve learned to lean into it. And while occasionally managers have said “You shouldn’t have said that”, they’ve also told me that they appreciated my bringing up things that no one else would. Maybe this isn’t the right culture/job for the LW, and sure, it’s good to dial back the “extra” where that feels authentic, but you’ll never have everyone like you, and trying will just make you miserable. My guess is that people admire you and see you as a strong person and you’re overestimating the importance of offhand remarks.

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  3. Pottery Yarn*

    Why not pose this question to your manager? Talk about the work you’ve been doing to make corrections, find out if they’ve seen those changes, and ask if there’s anything else you could be doing to improve in those areas. If your manager is happy with the way you’ve been progressing, they can make a point of calling out those negative comments when they come up and/or provide public praise when it’s warranted to help rebuild your reputation with you.

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    1. Walk on the Mild Side*

      I was thinking the same. I work in a place where “replaying old tapes” is the norm, and am guilty of it myself. It took someone calling out that so-and-so didn’t exhibit that behavior to them for me to question were they truly still behaving that way, or was my own bias getting in the way? After a lot of self-reflection and observation of their current behavior, I realized they had responded to feedback and changed behaviors, and it was me who was responding to what had been, not what was current.

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    2. Successful Birthday Rememberer*

      Your manager is a great start, and so is a mentor. They can also help keep a pulse on things and advocate for you.
      Those snide remarks from people are maybe more of a ‘them’ thing and not a ‘you’ thing. At my company (which can be so effing toxic), this would never fly. There’s definitely a culture element at play making this harder and it doesn’t have anything to do with you.
      As far as difficult coworkers go, I would take you any day over people who aren’t as driven, smart, and hardworking.
      I feel for you – you deserve a better working environment.

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    3. learnedthehardway*

      Agreeing – there’s a lot of self-insight that went into the OP’s realization that they were being a bit too much, and they’ve made a concentrated effort to dial themselves back to a point where they shouldn’t be perceived as being “extra”. It’s time to bring this to their manager’s attention, point out that they’ve realized these things about themselves and have made changes to their demeanor / presentation.

      The OP might phrase this as asking for advice – point out that they’ve dialed themself back, but a) they need to balance being dialed back with still being able to contribute, and b) that they’re getting snide comments that reflect how they were in the past.

      It’s possible that the OP isn’t as dialed back as they think they are, but I think it is more likely that they’ve been typecast and that they need their manager’s advocacy to get other people to realize that they have matured and grown professionally.

      If the manager says they are still too much, then I would reevaluate whether more dialing back is needed. But odds are the manager will see that the OP has matured. Hopefully, the manager will put in a word on behalf of the OP to cause others to recognize this as well, but if they don’t or if they aren’t effective, then I would agree that it’s time to find another organization that appreciates initiative, process improvement, and good ideas.

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    4. Dust Bunny*

      Fifthing, or whatever, this.

      Obviously, I think they should give you another chance, but you might have to do a little more go-getting to achieve that.

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    5. Elbe*

      Agreed.

      The letter leaves out a few important details. 1) Did she notice the issues on her own or did a manager speak to her about it and 2) how long ago did she start making changes.

      If the behavior was severe enough that a manager stepped in to correct it, it could be a larger problem that will take more time to fix. In my experience, the more negative an impression is, the longer it lasts.

      Even if the LW noticed the issue on her own, speaking to her manager about it is a good idea. It would be great to flag it to that person, who could then notice the changes and proactively speak about her to middle management. Most managers would be thrilled to brag about how their challenging-but-amazing report is now just amazing. The manager should also be made aware about the nasty little comments being directed at the LW. Those are just insults, not constructive criticism, and a decent manager would want to shut them down.

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  4. Somehow I Manage*

    OP, I’m sorry you’re in this position. I know someone who is in a similar position and it is really tough because they’re very good at their job and they want to see things moving forward rather than languishing from meeting to meeting. And they get the eye rolls and pushback too. It sucks, and I hate this for you.

    In addition to a trusted colleague, if you have any sort of regular 1:1 with your manager, I think I’d ask them too. You can offer the recent example you shared about the tabling event. It doesn’t sound like you said anything inappropriate, yet the middle-manager still made a comment. That comment is as rude and inappropriate as anything I could imagine you’d said. Ask your manager if you can rebuild your reputation, and then ask for suggestions.

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    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      Reading what the LW said about the type of comments they’re receiving definitely led me to give some side-eye to management. That type of mocking of a subordinate – in public, no less! – is totally inappropriate. That’s not gentle teasing among friends, it’s just being a jerk. LW, do you want to stay in this kind of environment or would moving on to something else be beneficial? Ideally somewhere that has a lower number and proportion of jerks.

      I wonder how much is the LW being “too much” and how much is a counter-reaction from people because of the “this is the way we’ve always done it” culture. Because I think both are at play. Some people seem to treat questions or suggestions for change as an attack, no matter how politely and appropriately you phrase them. The “of course you have a question” response really drives this home, I think. They asked whether people had questions, the LW had a question, then management made things uncomfortable. Even though it sounds like the LW generally has good questions and suggestions that add value to conversations.

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      1. Code Monkey, the SQL*

        I would suspect this as well. A go-getter in a space where the dominant feeling is “we don’t do that here” might very well draw overly-harsh critique. And frankly, the “Of course you…” comments are pretty uncalled for, especially as a public callout.

        I applaud the LW for self-examining and building the social muscle to switch modes between full enthusiasm and polite disengagement, but I don’t think that change will be enough to satisfy a culture that only prizes the status quo. I think there are a lot of workplaces that would love the LW to pieces (mine included)

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    2. Anonym*

      Yeah, the reactions OP is describing are really unkind and unprofessional. So while it sounds very worthwhile for OP to continue refining their approach (not being Less OP, as Alison so beautifully articulates), it’s important to assess whether they WANT to stay at a place where people who hold power over their career are so crappy. No one should be treated so nastily. I hope there’s a different organization where OP can flourish and be supported.

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      1. duinath*

        Yeah, I hope LW moves on to somewhere people aren’t so… well, mean, frankly.

        It sounds like LW has a lot to offer, and I think there are other places that deserve it more.

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        1. goddessoftransitory*

          Me too! I had a few “too much” comments for those colleagues mentioned in the letter; those were rude and belittling statements, full stop, LW. You are not to blame for the bad manners of your coworkers.

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      2. MigraineMonth*

        Absolutely.

        OP, you can’t measure your success on convincing this middle-management clique that you’ve changed. Given the comments they’re making, they have no room to criticize you for saying inappropriate things. Name calling (?!?) a subordinate (!!) should never be part of a functional work environment.

        Also, I agree with Alison that it sounds like you’re putting too much work into being not-you. Someone who gets tons done and has great ideas but sometimes steps on people’s toes is actually a pretty great reputation to have (unless you’re specifically aiming for a role that involves a lot of tact and politics). Oddly, acknowledging and leaning *into* that reputation (“I had an idea about [process], but please let me know if that’s out of my lane” or “Feel free to interrupt me if I’m rambling”) can make it less of a problem.

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  5. Not on board*

    “Well, of course you’d say something inappropriate in that situation” or “That’s just you: Little Miss Too Much.”

    A comment like that from a middle manager isn’t appropriate. I understand that the OP was being “extra” before but a manager provides feedback about that specifically and refrains from snide remarks because it’s unprofessional. Also, a lot of places have more tolerance for people who are high performers and produce exemplary work so you’d think they would take that into consideration.
    It is very hard to convince people that you’re not the same person you were before, whether that’s people you went to school with, people in your neighbourhood, or a workplace you’ve been for a certain amount of time.

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    1. Bumblebee*

      Yes, I think this might be a time to deploy an innocent, “Why do you say that?” or if you are feeling brave, “What an odd thing to say.”

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      1. Oregon Girl*

        I would like to up vote this. I had a much harsher come back in mind ( that mentioned ableism”) but this is an excellent one.

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        1. blah*

          Please explain the ableism happening here since the middle manager doesn’t have a way to know about LW potentially being on the spectrum. Either way, the manager shouldn’t talk to people that way as it’s not constructive.

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          1. Varthema*

            Because it’s ableist to assume that everybody has the same advanced social skills and that anyone missing a cue is either deliberate or a failing on their part.

            The “little miss” part makes it sexist as well, to my mind. I can’t hear “little Mr.” being used in that way.

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            1. House On The Rock*

              Yeah I actively recoiled from “Little Miss”…it’s really uncalled for (as are the other comments, but that is boundary crossing for sure).
              LW, lots of people have offered good support and reinforcement already, but this is not a good environment if middle management treats staff this way and gets away with it. I hope you can find somewhere better that appreciates you for ALL you are!

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        2. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          My reaction to that was similar. This place sucks, is not inclusive and toxic. LW, they don’t deserve you. Take your highly motivated self somewhere that they’ll appreciate you.

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      2. asbanks*

        Totally agreed. I was thinking something along the lines of, “Wow, what a hurtful thing to say!” Or, if taking the approach of “being extra isn’t actually a bad thing” that some other commenters suggested, something like “I’d rather give too much than not enough” (in response to the “little miss too much” comment, or something akin to it)

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      3. L-squared*

        I assure you, saying that would just make it worse.

        This is one of those sentences that 90% of the time sounds better in your head than it does out loud. And if you already have a not great reputation, it won’t help.

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        1. Silver Robin*

          Yeah, and that is generally advice for interactions between peers. This was a manager; that kind of response will likely not have the desired effect because now it sounds dismissive of a superior’s judgement.

          Reply ↓
      4. mlem*

        I’d probably go with the shorter, “… Excuse me?” in a slightly shocked tone, if only because that was my immediate reaction to reading the commentary. It’s less direct, but that could make it seem less obviously accusatory?

        Then again, my supervisor had to work with me on tone for years, so I’m not always good at telling what fits.

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    2. Strive to Excel*

      Yup, was going to come here to say this.

      The appropriate way for a manager to tell someone that they are being too much is “While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I’d like you to dial back a bit.” Then, when the person has made the effort to dial it back, either say “I see you’re trying – you’re not quite there yet” or acknowledge that improvement has happened and then *drop it*. Making nasty petty comments is bad management, and not indicative of a workplace where OP is likely to do well in the long term.

      And FWIW, if I were an exterior client or a person in the same industry and I overhead the exchanges OP mentioned, it would come across as the manager being off base, not OP.

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    3. Big Personality Myself*

      Agreed; that comment struck me as unkind and unnecessary. Were they waiting all day for you to ‘slip up’ so they could get that dig in? If someone is that mean, it’s them and not you.

      Reply ↓
      1. wordswords*

        Yeah. Like, yes, I think it makes good sense to check in with your own manager and/or another trusted source about how you’re actually being perceived, and I think it’s a solid approach (for lots of people, not just you, OP!) to ask yourself stuff like “is this actually under my purview? do I know enough background here to comment? have I been doing most of the talking at this meeting, and is that appropriate to the context or should I take a step back and listen more for a bit?”

        But it also sounds like maybe some of these middle managers want to have a punching bag to be snide at, or want you to feel small and snubbed so you stop trying to change their process and otherwise make them do work they don’t want to do? I don’t know that, obviously, but I’d encourage you to at least consider whether that might be a factor in some of this “being extra” stuff. Because regardless of whether you’ve gone a bit overboard in the past, some of the things you recount them saying here are awfully unkind and unprofessional, and are the kind of thing you say when (consciously or not) you want someone to feel hurt or self-conscious.

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        2. goddessoftransitory*

          This, LW. Because it sounds like at least part of their responses is “we don’t want to have to rethink our jobs.”

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    4. Somebody Nobody*

      That was my takeaway, as well. Even if OP is or was waaay too extra, those comments are inappropriate and downright hostile. If everyone is saying stuff like this to OP, they just need to leave. Either OP hasn’t “reformed” as much as they think the have or there workplace is just toxic towards them. Eaither way, there’s not point in trying to salvage things. The well has been poisoned.

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    5. Tess McGill*

      OP, I came here to say the same thing. Openly mocking you like they do is not ok and they are being total jerks about it. I just wanted to give you credit for your self-awareness and your efforts to work on yourself. Not everybody is willing to do that, as demonstrated by your middle management team.

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    6. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      on top of this, I want to know what the inappropriate thing is? That’s such an odd phrase that you typically only use in specific instances (like TMI info about bodily functions, boarderline sexual harassment, etc.)

      Reply ↓
    7. Justme, The OG*

      I would also hazard a guess that a male coworker exhibiting the same behaviors would not be called out as “too much.”

      Reply ↓
    8. Patty*

      Yes, I came to the comments to say that same- name-calling is unkind and unhelpful. I would be seriously analyzing the workplace culture and decide whether or not they even deserve your hard work!

      Reply ↓
    9. nerdchild87*

      Yeah I agree. Those comments were incredibly rude and unprofessional. Makes me wonder if in fact those managers are just not very nice ‍♀️

      Reply ↓
    10. Decima Dewey*

      OP, it sounds like they’ve made up their minds about you and will seize upon–or create–evidence to strengthen their view. You can walk on eggshells for a week, and the first time you relax or slip up it’s back to square one.

      Leaving the job may save your sanity.

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  6. Kelly*

    These comments your coworkers are making have a strong misogyny vibe. If you were a man, would you just be seen as assertive and curious? A real go-getter? Instead of “Little Miss” whatever? That’s inappropriate to say to a colleague. This doesn’t really solve your problem, but it’s something to think about. I wouldn’t assume this is 100% you. But I agree that you probably need to find another job. This sounds like a culture that doesn’t work for you, and that’s not necessarily a failing on your part.

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    1. Silver Robin*

      yeah, the “little miss” broke my heart but also got my hackles up. Because no way would a man be referred to with such language. I cannot even think of a direct equivalent, it would have to be “there you go, being awkward again” or “Captain oblivious” but not “little” and not “miss”. blegh

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    2. Elbe*

      The LW mentions that the comments aren’t direct quotes, but if the tone is the same then it’s super inappropriate. Being so dismissive and condescending is a bad sign in general, but it’s an even worse sign that they’re acting this way when nothing has gone wrong recently.

      If the LW is struggling with professional norms, my gut feeling is that these are not the people she wants to learn norms from. They seem like pretty awful role models.

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    4. Head Sheep Counter*

      Yeah I was picking up a misogyny vibe too. I’m 99% certain none of this would have been a issue for a dude and that in fact the dude would be the CEO at this point because of it.

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    5. I Can't Even*

      This right here. Would they say Little Mr. Too Much? Assertive women are often labeled negatively. I agree with other’s sentiments to counteract these statements that it is “odd” for them to label someone as such. I might even add in “I didn’t think that enthusiasm had negative gender connotations. “

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  7. Hell in a Handbasket*

    The manager who made that comment sounds like a jerk, regardless of how you’ve behaved in the past. I think you could have addressed it in the moment with something like, “I’m disappointed to hear you say that. I’ve been working really hard to change those behaviors. Do you have concerns with how this event has gone today?” Hopefully this would either tell you if you’re still doing something alienating, or else prompt the manager to reassess their knee-jerk reaction.

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    1. Laura*

      I am surprised more people haven’t bumped this one up. This would be my move too – you don’t need to tell someone mean anything vulnerable (like “I’m in therapy”) but acknowledging – “I know there have been times in the past when I overstepped, and it’s something I’m really trying to work on.” – that would go a long way for me. I have been on both sides of that conversation and had it go well. This script is perfect.

      The hope is that one of the middle managers could spread it around to the others!

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    2. Jessica*

      Yes, this exactly! Ido believe that people can outgrow a bad reputation and wish you the best. I’m sorry you’ve had to endure these rude, demeaning comments.

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  8. H.Regalis*

    If your trusted colleagues tell you that hell will freeze over before you can repair your reputation here, please listen to them.

    I’ve stayed in bad situations for way too long being like, “Failure is not an option! I just have to keep at it. I have to stay here. I have to stick it out [and somehow this will make things magically not be shit anymore]” and that was a terrible idea and caused me a lot of mental and emotional turmoil for no reason. Sometimes you need to just cut your losses and go.

    Some of the stuff you were doing sounds obnoxious, and some of it doesn’t. It’s a lot of trial and error finding a good balance, whether you’re neurodivergent or not. Don’t stay somewhere that is mentally shredding you. Tenacity is not inherently a virtue.

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    1. Not your trauma bucket*

      100000% this. I stayed way too long in a similar situation. I was *never* going to fit in that culture. It caused some pretty serious damage to my psyche. There are other organizations out there that will accept or even welcome you. Go find them.

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      1. Aggretsuko*

        I earned a bad reputation because I got thrown onto the phones with no support and no training. I NEVER EVER EVER recovered from that bad reputation after 12 years. It only got worse, even though frankly, I wasn’t actually that bad at it as long as I talked perky and knew what I was talking about.

        OP probably needs to go somewhere where they like the sort of people they are. This place doesn’t entirely like it, albeit maybe some of them do rather than none?

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    2. Lily Rowan*

      It’s not even cutting your losses! It’s working somewhere for three years and then moving on to a better situation!

      Changing jobs can be great.

      Reply ↓
      1. Paint N Drip*

        Totally agree. And it seems that OP racked up some excellent resume fodder at this location before their spirit got stepped on, I’m sure they also made enough GOOD impressions that they have some options for references. Nothing wrong with taking the good of the experience and just moving on

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    3. goddessoftransitory*

      I agree. LW, you don’t need to prove anything at this point. You aren’t going to solve the magical puzzle that makes your coworkers not treat you badly. They enjoy treating you badly, unfortunately, and you aren’t going to change their minds.

      You are passionate, caring, and want to do a good job! You’ve worked hard to correct professional errors and have not been rewarded for it. To be blunt, this pack of *muttered invectives* do not deserve you.

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  9. VintageLydia*

    Regardless of your reputation and whether it’s warranted, those comments from that manager were way beyond rude.

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  10. Viki*

    I suppose it really depends on how much of outside your swim lanes you were. I’ll be honest, when there is someone who is brilliant, but just takes over, even their brilliance can be dimmed by how much effort it is to work with them.

    If you were regularly talking over people, telling people how to do their jobs, especially if there was senior leadership in those meetings, even with rehab, that’s still how you would be known in teams. And I don’t know how you repair without leaving.

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    1. 2 and a Possible*

      Being difficult to work with does tend to obscure other good things about people.

      Maybe for LW leaving is not the only option. LW could resign themselves to being perceived as being a changed person will take a long time? Only LW can really answer that.

      Being committed to changing but being in the same place while changing does mean you will hear about how you used to be often before long before you stop hearing about how you used to be. It is (sort of) like grief, in that there’s not really a timetable for when exactly things will get better.

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    2. L-squared*

      Totally agree.

      I feel like a lot of people are trying to be supportive of OP, but I think what you are saying is probably what she needs to hear. I don’t know how bad it was, but my guess is it had to be pretty bad for people to be openly saying this stuff. Like it seems like a situation where people talked about her to themselves, then people tried some gentle correction, and it still didn’t work.

      So yes, even if you came up with amazing ideas, if no one wants to work with you, that isn’t a problem that will easily be fixed.

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    3. Alicent*

      I have a friend just like OP who brags about requesting meetings with the CEO of the giant corporation she works at because she has “so many great ideas!” and has gotten at least 4 Masters degrees that I’m aware of in different areas so she can advance. Unfortunately she has the reputation of being an overeager flake in our friend circle and I can’t imagine what she’s like to work with just based on what she has told me directly. I really don’t think someone with this kind of history can move past that reputation without finding a new job, especially if management is prone to misogynist comments like that. Moving on and getting with a good therapist can make a world of difference.

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      1. Elbe*

        I’ve worked with people who thought that their ideas were Big and Important only because they didn’t have the experience and self-awareness to recognize the flaws in their own proposals. Invariably, these people write off any push back as ‘negativity’ and, as a result, never learn from their mistakes. I completely agree that it would be hard to come back from that type of behavior, specifically because so many people have encountered this pattern before and are very aware of how unlikely it is for this type of person to change or grow.

        I have hope for the LW, though, because that paradigm doesn’t seem to fit here. It seems like she’s getting positive feedback from her coworkers, as well, and that her ideas have been genuinely helpful at times. If the issue is mostly just a matter of tact and professional norms, that is definitely something that she can come back from if her coworkers are open to it. LW should test the water and then make an educated decision about whether to invest more time at this company, or to take her gifts and newly-practiced norms to somewhere better.

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    4. a clockwork lemon*

      I’d be curious too about that “of course you’d say something inappropriate” comment. Yeah, the middle managers in question were being rude, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that OP is a rockstar who has also veered out of her lane in ways that go beyond just being too vocal about what someone else should be doing in a meeting.

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  11. OhGee*

    Oof, those people are being super rude! They sound jealous of you, and like they’re focusing on you being “too much” as a way to make you feel bad. I’m an ADHD adult, and I am sometimes “too much.” I’m also a high achieving professional. If that bothers people, too bad. It sounds like you’ve made an effort to monitor the ways in which you might need to be perceived as more “professional” and at least one person is still jumping on your “flaws.” That’s a them problem. Keep being you.

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  12. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

    LW, I’m so sorry. As a person with an undiagnosed neuro-something that makes me inclined do many of the same things you do, this hurts my heart to hear about you in this situation. I find myself wishing I’d been there to tell that manager where they can stick their comments. It’s just rude, and nothing you did in the past could warrant that kind of rude response. It says much more about them than it does about you.

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  13. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Has your boss or anyone else actually addressed this stuff with you as a performance issue? Because one thing I didn’t see here was your boss asking you to work on A, B, and C so that you come across as X, Y, and Z with your colleagues. What I do see a lot of is a bunch of people making unnecessarily snarky remarks to your face, which isn’t constructive nor productive.

    Not everyone is going to like us and we can’t control those who don’t, but we’re also expected to maintain a minimum level of professionalism in the workplace. Even if you are too much by whatever metric you’re using, it’s ridiculous that people are acting the way they are when you ask a question or describing you as Little Miss Too Much when you made an effort to not be Too Much at an event.

    Interpersonal issues can definitely impact the work that gets done, but I’m not seeing any of that in the letter. I’m seeing lots of people for whom you may be their BEC, but that’s the thing about your BEC: you have to get over it if it’s not actually impacting your work.

    I know this is a reputational concern, not a work product one, but I’m struggling to get past how much your coworkers can’t get over themselves.

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    1. HSE Compliance*

      +1000

      Those making comments seem pretty cruel in this – and I agree with a comment up above questioning if these colleagues would be making the same comment to a male coworker.

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    2. Sharon*

      I agree snarky comments aren’t helpful: people should be either addressing this as a work issue or keeping quiet about it.

      Maybe, depending on who’s making the comment, you do one or more of the following: state that you’re working on it, apologize if your communication is still an issue, and ask if they have any specific actionable feedback for you? But if you are having trouble reading the room to begin with, it might also be hard to figure out when that’s appropriate.

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  14. Juicebox Hero*

    I honestly don’t think you can. The middle management meanies have decided you’re “too much” and they will keep right on thinking of you that way no matter what you do. You made mistakes, but then realized you were coming off the wrong way and are taking steps to change that. That shows that you’re capable of introspection and growth. Meanwhile, with the teasing and the sarcasm, they’re showing that they’re a bunch of jerks.

    A fresh start somewhere else, where you can put what you’ve learned about yourself into action and show your skills to people who have no preconcieved notion of what you’re like, sounds like the best idea to me.

    Don’t make yourself small just because someone else wants you to be.

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  15. BellaStella*

    Honestly OP talk to your manager and get them to go to bat for you to help this change, first. And stop being the first person to ask questions in meetings. And keep reflecting on the things as you say and stay in your lane. Document the comments and ask exactly what behaviour triggered the response. After another six months if nothing has changed start looking for a new company.

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    1. Leslie Santiago*

      Yes the first question thing is a good one. Try and live by the rule of 3s – be the third person to talk.

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  16. Sue Wilson*

    OP I think the advice to talk to your coworkers or your boss is the correct thing to do at first. Not only can you get feedback but sometimes you can get those people to run interference for you/defend you. The fact of the matter is that you usually can’t rehabilitate yourself alone, you generally need someone in your corner.

    BUT if that doesn’t work and you still want to stay at that job, sometimes the correct thing is to be direct and/or to own it.

    “Of course you would have a question.” “Oh I was really interested in XYZ in how it could fit with ABC and I really like how you talked about the Z portion. Is this not the right time to talk more about your program/did you not want any questions?”

    “Oh you’re just Miss Little Too Much”.
    “I do try to liven things up! And I really enjoy the work we’re doing!”

    “Of course you’d say something inappropriate”
    “I’m going to be honest, I’ve never know you to be a rude person but I’m really taken aback by that. What did you think was inappropriate about talking about X at the X industry convention?”

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  17. Chrissimas*

    An example of how hard it is to get past a first impression:

    When I first met my friends when I was 25, I was always running late. Not horrendously so but often 5-10 min just for casual stuff. So I got the reputation as “Always Late”. I worked on it and started over correcting and got to where I was always early. For YEARS, I was always early. I just thought people would notice.

    So like 7 years later, I meet up with my friend at the train station and she says something like “Look at you being early!!” Like very friendly but surprised. I finally said “I have been early to everything for years and you just haven’t noticed!”. So over the next few months she would then notice that I was early and she was so shocked that she hadn’t seen it before. It was like a lightbulb went off. And she tells it now as a funny story but also she genuinely just had me coded as always late and it took a concerted effort for her to fix that.

    So, moral there is, this was with people that like me and love me and want me to be happy and if it was this hard for me to get them to notice that minor change, I think it’s going to be very difficult for you to get this clique of what sounds like not the nicest people to change their minds.

    Also if you switch jobs, you get to use this “first impressions stick” thing to your advantage! You’ll make a great first impression based on what you e learned already and then people will code you as “great worker!” and more easily forget the small mistakes you make in the future!

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    1. L-squared*

      Your story is interesting, because I had a similar situation, but I was your friend, and my friend was you.

      And yeah, until he pointed out that he actually was always on time (at least when he was alone and not with his wife), I didn’t notice.

      At the same time, I think you don’t notice because its someone doing what they are “supposed” to do. If everything is working the way its supposed to, you don’t notice. When things are
      “wrong” that is when you notice.

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    2. MerriadocTylerMoore*

      See also: my best friend is a FANTASTIC, safe, mature, patient driver. But up until recently, her parents acted like she had no idea how to even turn on a car, because she failed her drivers test the first time (age 16). It finally took her husband saying, “You know, that WAS 20 years ago — she’s never even had a parking ticket since. Maybe you guys are forgetting that she’s an adult now?” That shamed them into stopping.

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    3. Ally McBeal*

      It really is incredible how lasting impressions are formed so quickly. I had a colleague insist, while staring straight at me in an in-person setting, that my hair was red when it was very clearly brown. I’d been a (fake) redhead for the first couple months I worked at that job but stopped maintaining it not long after. 2-3 years later she still thought of me as a redhead.

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    4. Nicosloanica*

      Yes, this times 1000. It could be malicious, but it also doesn’t have to be – this is partly why I find starting a new job soooo stressful. You could be late all the time if they already have a good impression of you and it won’t register, but lord forbid the new person be late once.

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  18. Dawn*

    This is just my personal experience, but I chose (have chosen?) to own it. (For the record, I’m well on the spectrum as well and I know exactly where you’re coming from.)

    When I get that, “Of course you’re asking a question,” my response is along the lines of, “Of course I am! You knew I would.” I’ve made Being A Little Extra part of my thing, and yes, it can be polarizing, but my favourite managers have always appreciated me for who I am (and the fact that they can always count on me to start the conversation.)

    So. I know that your question was about how you can get past the reputation, but my take is: own it. When you confidently take ownership of who you are (or who you’ve been, it’s understood that you will experience personal growth and not always be that exact person,) people very quickly get over pointing it out and you’ll even find yourself with friends and allies who like that aspect of you.

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    1. Elbe*

      I think it depends on just how negatively her behavior affected her coworkers. If it was mainly just awkwardness, then not dwelling on it too long may be the route to take.

      If what she was doing actually hurt her coworkers or offended people (stepping on toes, not taking no for an answer, being disrespectful, etc.) then “owning it” will only seem like doubling down, and it will take away her chance to highlight the positive changes she’s made.

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    2. No Longer a Bookkeeper*

      I agree! I was diagnosed with ADHD just a couple years ago, so it explained why I’ve been Too Much everywhere, my whole life. It’s a handy shorthand now, but I’ve always made a point of saying “Yeah, I know I’m a lot, tell me something I don’t know.” There are a few specific things I’ve done like:

      1. Focused on competence – I can be loud and talkative, but I also get shit done (usually faster than anyone else – thanks ADHD lol)
      2. Really really really focused on reading the room – this is partially a trauma response from being Too Much as a child, but I work really hard to match people’s energy. I still sometimes don’t nail it, but it definitely helps to use their energy as a guideline!
      3. If I’m trying to relate to someone’s experience, I tie it back to them. I didn’t realize that trying to relate to someone else with your own similar experience is a very common ND thing to do, but neurotypical people tend to find it off-putting because they think you’re making it about you. So if I’m sharing my experience I immediately, directly tie it back to their situation, so it’s clear I’m relating to them and not trying to hijack the conversation.
      4. Accept that some (neurotypical) people just won’t ever accept you, and it’s their loss. This can be soooo hard, especially if you have issues with Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (aka RSD, another common ND trait). But some people just will not vibe with you on any level, and that’s really ok! In that situation I honestly avoid them (while still remaining civil) and let my skills and positive attitude do the talking for me. It really sucks when the person being the Too Much Police is your boss/ middle management though, so if those people can impact your career growth at all, maybe you should move on because it sounds like those managers may never accept you.

      All that to say (sorry this is so long, I’m not beating the Talks Too Much allegations lol), being authentic and being confident in yourself is the best way to handle it. These managers are trying to hurt your feelings on purpose – and nothing makes nasty people angrier than their insults bouncing off of you. If someone says “Of course you have a question,” smiling and saying “Yep, you know me, I always love getting the nitty gritty details!” (or whatever fits in your situation) takes the wind out of their sails. If someone called me Little Miss Too Much I would shrug and smile and say “I’d rather be Too Much than boring!” and let them stew a little lol. (Might not work for managers, but for coworkers I would 100% be petty lol.) Sending you hugs, I know this is so hard to deal with!

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    3. Ally McBeal*

      Yeah I’m in the same boat, although I haven’t had an ASD evaluation and don’t think I’m on the spectrum. I just have less of a filter than others and put my foot in my mouth more often than I’d like (those full-body shame convulsions like to hit at night right when I’m trying to sleep. fun!). But my colleagues have told me they appreciate the questions I ask during meetings and my managers tell me to keep asking – right place right time of course, which is the tricky part, but I do my best.

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  19. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    Can I give OP a hug??? That middle manager was rude as heck to you. Even if you had made inappropriate comments in the past she doesn’t have the right to throw it in your face. We all do or say things that might not be the best and we shouldn’t have to walk on egg shells fearing someone is going to throw it back at us. I’m side eying this management team for how they are acting as well.

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    1. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      That’s a really good point, that’s not an appropriate comment to say to anyone. I can’t imagine someone telling a man he was “little mister too much.”

      OP for sure deserves hugs. <3

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  20. Elbe*

    If the LW wants to stay with this company, I think it would be worth responding to the snide comments with sincerity, especially when they are said 1:1. Most people would be willing to re-evaluate their opinion of someone who has the self-awareness to say, “I want to let you know that I understand where your comment is coming from and I’m trying to do better.”

    That said, the examples given seem way too personal and hostile to be appropriate in the workplace. This is not a professional way to handle feedback, nor is it productive in the long run. If they had such a huge issue with the LW’s behavior, they or a manager should have addressed it directly. But it seems like the LW got the hint and made changes on her own. If middle management’s idea of managing is to just make nasty little comments, the LW should consider maybe these people are not the best people to be learning professional norms from.

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  21. I NEED A Tea!*

    Middle management is behaving very badly, and OP I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. You are enthusiastic and have a lot to offer. Sometimes when people are threatened by someone they will put them down in front of others. I say stand your ground and own it. Next time he says little miss know it all I would say with a smile and a laugh “yes well someone has to be”.

    OP you’re an eagle soaring with pigeons (pigeon lovers don’t come at me).

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      1. Rae*

        I think it’s to find a new job. Those middle managers are way out of line, and they can make your life miserable. Also, management tends to stick with management, so even if their bosses like you, those bosses would likely avoid angering a group of other managers by taking your side.

        I’m glad you’ve been working to change. Telling others how to do their job, no matter how innocently it’s meant, will definitely turn people against you. And if you try to bring up workflow and efficiency, it can seem like you’re trying to say those people should be doing more work. There might be no coming back from that.

        But, don’t completely step back from what you’ve been doing. Keep asking questions and offering suggestions. Just don’t dominate meetings and question time. Bring up the big stuff that might benefit from being talked about in the group, and send a follow-up email with the rest of your questions and feedback.

        Good luck!

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  22. Leslie Santiago*

    I was in the exact same situation. A year or so after getting diagnosed with ADHD and starting medication, I changed jobs. I am extremely well regarded at my new organisation. Unfortunately I always felt like I couldn’t get past the ingrained views of me at the old one. Still, it’s been great to be appreciated and my talents recognised in the new role.

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  23. L-squared*

    I think you really need to look at to what extent this reputation has spread.

    Because, just being honest, I can think of times when there have been people who made not a great impression on a handful of people, but over time they were able to show them that it was just kind of a bad first impression. However, if this got around to everyone, its going to be much harder.

    I’ll tell you immediately what I pictured (this may or may not be you). I pictured the person who, when you have a meeting scheduled for an hour, and you are finishing up early and the person running it says “if there are no other questions, we’ll wrap up”, and then there is that one person who, every single time, has to bring up something that really could be a private conversation, but wiill then hold up everyone. If that is you, and people got this over and over, yeah, you probably aren’t shedding that anytime soon. Because for me, the people who did that, even if it went from every meeting to every 3rd meeting, the fact is, they were still doing it.

    Good luck though

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  24. Strive to Excel*

    OP – YBSAIGTC (your boss sucks and isn’t going to change). You are being amazingly mature and proactive in your self-improvement. This group is not going to appreciate that, or your skill. Start job hunting.

    In the meantime, reframe your problem. You seem to have self-improvement under control. This is not a you problem, it’s a petty boss problem. If someone says “of course you’d have a question”, it’s appropriate to go to them afterwards and say “I’m confused. Was my question inappropriate?” If they have a problem with the actual question, implement the feedback. If they don’t have a problem with the question and sidestep it, then deploy “I find it really weird that you’d criticize me for asking a question during an open question time”. If a member of management actually uses phrasing like “Little Miss”, Alison’s “wow”, “what a strange thing to say”, “I would like you to not call me that”, or “that’s a really inappropriate thing to call someone at work” can be deployed depending on your comfort level.

    And if you have any sort of review process, specifically request feedback on these issues. That will give you leverage to either ‘improve’ – ie, have some time to brush up on the corporate politics game and/or job hunt – or if they can’t actually give you a concrete answer, push back.

    But generally this company sucks. May they be taken over by a dynamic female CEO invested in rooting out gender bias.

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  25. Lemon Zinger*

    I could have written this letter myself. Years ago, there was a meeting where I bluntly stated something that was true, but in a way that was not helpful or empathetic. Several people were extremely upset. I sent an apology email that night. I have since been diagnosed with ADHD and am now medicated and doing much better in my personal and work lives. However, I can’t undo the past, and I’ve come to realize that leadership in my office is not going to forgive or forget, and I need to move on if I want any chance of career advancement. It sucks, but our actions and behavior have consequences.

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  26. Voodoo Priestess*

    OP, By any chance, are you also a woman? I feel like this is another area where gendered feedback can come into play.

    I can relate to your post, and it really pains me that you’re putting in a ton of work to adapt (and mask) and be more palatable to your middle managers while trying to force yourself into a box. Not all people fit into all work cultures and it doesn’t mean there is a problem with you, it just means it isn’t a good fit. That’s OK. This won’t get easier as you get older, instead you’ll end up with accumulated fatigue from always having to be on guard, on alert, rehearsing conversations, etc. That I know from experience.

    It would be a kindness to yourself to start looking for a new job. You’re doing therapy and putting in the work. You should be able to work somewhere you’re not constantly feeling criticized.

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  27. Honoria Lucasta*

    Can you get a coworker on your side to start telling the counter-narrative? It could be your manager (as a few have suggested), but even a friendly colleague at the same level might be able to gently push back on your behalf if they hear people making comments about you being “extra” or whatever. What you want is someone not-you speaking up in your defense, pointing out the pattern that everyone else has missed because they pigeonholed you in their brain as “the OTT one.”

    Chrissimas’s story is a great example (comment above mine); they were able to point out their change to their friend, and then the friend started noticing how they were early rather than lage. If you can get one person to start noticing your restraint, ideally your manager, they can help change the narrative about you. E.G. When a meeting leader says “Of course you have a question” your friend can go to them afterward and say “Actually, she hasn’t raised her hand in the past three meetings. I’ve noticed she’s actually been a lot more restrained lately!” Or if the middle-managers are all chit-chatting at lunch and one of them says something about you, your own manager can point out how much you’ve improved lately.

    As a “loud” person myself, I totally sympathize with your situation. People aren’t good at noticing when we don’t talk *as much as we used to*, because we are still *talking occasionally*. It feels like we would have to become totally opposite people for them to recalibrate their assessment of us, and that would be destructive to our own well-being.

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  28. Bloopbloop*

    This makes me so sad. While it’s good to give space to others and be thoughtful about your airtime, these managers are Mean Girling you into dulling your shine. They should be glad to have someone on staff who is innovative and enthusiastic.

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  29. Baela Targaryen*

    I’ve been “too much” before, too.

    You are doing the good work. Now you’re in the middle period of waiting for the seeds of your change to sprout so that others can see the flowers. It sucks, it’s exhausting, and it’s demoralizing.

    Keep going anyway. Good luck.

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  30. Alexis Moira Rose*

    The middle managers’ reactions sound completely arbitrary to me based on differences in communication and personality. They also have not picked up on the LW’s changes to adapt to that work environment, which shows they have some deeply seated prejudices that they can’t shake about the person. Time to move on and have a fresh start! People’s dislike of you and rudeness towards you is completely unjustified and they won’t change.
    Also, you could think of some statements to confront their rude comments, such as if they say “of course you have a question, ” you could respond, “can you explain what you mean by that?”

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    1. L-squared*

      In fairness to the managers, most people remember what you have been like most of the time, not necessarily just recently.

      Chrissimas above told a good story of how this type of thing happens.

      Everyone has their own things going on, and if someone gets the reputation as a know it all who tells others how to do their job, other people won’t necessarily notice when they stopped doing it, because that is really what everyone else is already doing. OP was doing the abnormal thing, so when it stops, people don’t necessarily notice.

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  31. linus*

    can i just say it really sounds like what you’re facing is less “a reputation for being extra” and “bog standard office misogyny.” is there a male colleague in the office you’re close with? try asking him if he can put forward one or two of your suggestions and see how they go over. it really sounds like the people doing this to you are reacting to Something and it sounds way, way less like “your engagement with your job” and way more like, well, your gender.

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    1. Nicosloanica*

      Ooh, interesting slant that I hadn’t considered – is OP is female it can definitely happen that all the ideas are “little Miss Too Much” but the exact same comments would go over differently from a different person.

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  32. MerriadocTylerMoore*

    Phew, I gotta say…this reallllly smells like jealousy to me. With the exception of “telling others how to do their jobs,” which you say you’ve intentionally pulled back on, none of your behaviors sound remotely difficult or “inappropriate” to me.

    But if I were an insecure middle-manager, jealous of your talent AND your enthusiasm, I would probably act snarky and bitter too. Getting pissy because you had a QUESTION during the Q&A portion?! Please. Babies. If anything, I would ignore them until they say something to you directly again, then hit them with a “You keep making comments like that, and I’m curious why, since I do excellent work and the majority of our colleagues seem to really appreciate the work I do.”

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    1. Person from the Resume*

      See all the comments confirming that “you never get a second chance to make a first impression.”

      This tight-knit group of middle managers sounds like there are some jerks in there. (And if “little miss” was part of the actual insult then sexism and misogyny!) But it also sounds like the LW has assessed that part of her “too much” was a lots of being vocal and asking questions outside of her lane and implying she knew how to do other people’s jobs better than they did. She was like that; they remember it.

      Dismissing it as jealousy is mistake. Saying other people are jealous is what un-self-aware people do – people who do not understand what they did was even wrong.

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      1. Burning Burner*

        You’re right that most of what’s driving the managers’ reaction is irritation about the LW’s legitimate missteps. But it’s tricky because there’s probably an element of jealousy in there as well. The LW has gotten results and praise for innovating in an organization that’s very pro-status quo due to taking professional risks that her coworkers either can’t or won’t.

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  33. FionasHuman*

    I’ve been “extra” my whole life thanks to a lovely combination of PTSD and ADHD; the first finally correctly diagnosed in my 40’s, and the latter *finally* diagnosed at 60+.

    The one thing I didn’t see scanning the comments is just how much human beings are pattern-detecting animals. Once we think we see a pattern it’s extremely hard for most of us to acknowledge when the pattern has changed, even when (in interpersonal issues) we truly care about another person and support the growth work they’re doing. (ask my husband why I know) Coworkers may care about you in an abstract way, but generally they won’t make the time to experience the cognitive dissonance involved in recognizing your new patterns of behavior.

    Best wishes in whatever you decide to do. You deserve to be treated with respect, not snide comments.

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  34. Arrietty*

    I had a similar problem (and actually lost the job during my probation period because my manager had a fixed view of me and decided I could never learn). All those things she didn’t like about me? Other than a tendency to be late, they’re all positives for my current career, and are a large part of why I’ve been successful. Even the chronic lateness is less of an issue now that I run the business (because needing to be somewhere by X time is much easier when you decide what X is!)

    It took me years to recover from the negative image of myself I got in that job. Now I can see that I was just in the wrong environment – a very hierarchical, neurotypical, policy-driven place that didn’t want ideas or out of the box thinking. They weren’t necessarily wrong, but they were wrong for me (and I believe missing out as a result, but that’s what massive organisations are often like).

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  35. Varthema*

    I don’t care how extra or out-of-her lane the OP was, even if she hadn’t made a change, those snide remarks (especially the “little miss”) are mean and unexcusable. I don’t care how annoyed they might be or how justified that annoyance is. It’s unprofessional and borderline if not full-on bullying.

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    1. learnedthehardway*

      Agreeing – that comment in and of itself would be a good reason to talk to HR. That kind of nastiness should be sharply nipped in the bud.

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  36. Sneaky Squirrel*

    I want to put out there that I don’t think being extra is necessarily a bad thing. It sounds like there’s some jealousy going on. You’re enthusiastic about the work and I personally would prefer to work with someone who is overenthusiastic and occasionally needs to be reeled in than someone who is negative about work and not willing to bring forth change. But I can see that when people are at the point of making snide remarks about your personality, that could also be a barrier to promotions or work you want to take on.

    Can you bring in your boss and let them know about your efforts? If your boss is supportive, then you could use them as a reality check to see if your efforts are noted. But also, having the boss as an ally in your corner might help to both steer away some of the snide remarks and potentially help reframe your colleagues’ perspectives. If not a boss, then maybe a few trusted peers or a mentor could take on some of that role.

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  37. DameB*

    LW – I too am the “extra” one at my company and *they love me for it.* I’m the American who will say The Thing among a crew of introvert, very polite Brits and they deeply appreciate it, even if it means occasionally I’m a little too much. They count on me to be the one to speak up in meetings and point out when the Big Boss has just said something profoundly untrue (politely, professionally, of course, but still).

    You’re excellent. Reign it in a bit so you’re not telling people how to do their jobs but find a place that appreciates you for all your extraness.

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  38. Double A*

    I think LW should look for a different job, but not because they have screwed up but because this company isn’t a good fit. This is a company this isn’t looking for initiative and to change things up. And maybe that’s a good thing for the company, I don’t know. But there ARE organizations that are open to people who ask questions and look for ways to improve things. I’m in one of them and it’s a great fit for my personality, while people who like consistency and predictability can struggle.

    I’ve also gotten, “Of course you have a question!” but it was said with affection because in my company, it’s a good thing! Even though I know I have a bit of a reputation for having All The Questions. I’m also acknowledged and appreciated for the good work I do and have been promoted because of it.

    Your company doesn’t sound like a good fit FOR YOU. Your attributes would be greatly appreciated elsewhere, especially since you’ll be balancing that tendency to go full out with what you’ve learned about when to pull back and how to listen. You’ve learned a TON at that company; now it’s time to let that benefit you and another company that will appreciate you.

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  39. Cacophonix*

    I agree, leaving may be the unfortunate best option. Not the same, but I can think of at least 1 instance I had to do this. I needed to cut back on the normally senior level intense contract work I do and I took a contract role as a contributing team member at a big company in my area. One I can excel at and also do in my sleep. After that was done and I was in a much better place, I could not, no matter who I showed my resume to, get a role more in line with my experience at that company. I was just branded with the old role, which was fine in a way – a change management role. But worse, all people remembered was what they saw – excellent communication skills. So they thought I would be grateful to be asked to edit policy manuals and prepare powerpoint slides for executives. I’ve learned that if you do a superb job with strategy and planning, then even a senior contributing role looks easy to anyone looking on. Baddababing, anybody with decent writing skills can do it.

    I declined and went back years later when the leaders who knew me moved on.

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  40. Ruthie*

    To the OP and other commenters: I hate that you are in environments where you’re made to feel like your ND selves are Too Much. In my workplace, I’ve seen a real culture change in the past few years mostly thanks to our Neurodiversity Employee Resource Group. There’s a much greater understanding of the way our brains work differently, and how those differences make us stronger as an organization. So if you do need to look for another job, asking about the company’s ERGs might help you screen for a place that will be a more welcoming environment. I’m mad at your current workplace and the jerk-face middle managers for making you waste your mental energy in masking. I really hope you can find a place that will celebrate you as you are.

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  41. werewolf*

    Completely agree with Alison about being careful not to over-correct, but in different words— I’m assuming when you say “on the spectrum” you mean the autistic spectrum, although I suppose this could also apply to other neurodivergencies that I’m not as familiar with. The actions you’ve taken to course-correct are new masking adaptations; you’re masking more than you did when you first started. Like all masking, the changes will help you fit in to a neurotypical workplace more, but masking is one of the leading causes of autistic burnout. A lot of adult AFAB autistic people don’t even get diagnosed until they’re in severe burnout, because in the past they masked so well no one noticed their symptoms, and it isn’t until they burnout and lose the ability to mask that they realize they’re autistic.

    This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t do any of the steps you’ve taken. Only you can decide that. And some of what you were doing was probably affecting others’ work negatively, like telling them how to do their job, so it is good to be cognizant of it and take steps to avoid it! But it’s also important to be aware of what you’re doing within the context of autism, and what consequences it may have down the line. Personally, I have been dealing with the beginning stages of autistic burnout for a few months, and have really struggled to find very many resources about preventing it or recovering from it before hitting rock bottom, so I know that it’s not always talked about before the fact and wanted to flag it for you.

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    1. Queer Anon*

      100% this. That much time spent rehearsing scripts and monitoring what you’re saying and how you’re saying it sounds exhausting and unsustainable. These managers seem to have a very limited view of how people (and, as other commenters have pointed out, women specifically) are allowed to be, and it seems unlikely that you can squeeze yourself into a box small enough to satisfy them. There are other workplaces out there where that is simply not necessary (at least not to the same degree) and you can instead be valued for these traits. I hope you can find somewhere where you can focus your energy on the job itself instead of on pretending to be someone you are fundamentally not.

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  42. A Very Extra Shrimp*

    As a fellow Extra Person, I would encourage you to embrace the Extra! I know it’s easier said than done, but I can tell you first hand that it feels so much better than feeling like you have to squish yourself into a tiny ball just to fit in. People joke about my extra-ness all the time, but it’s a good-hearted joke. They appreciate the Extra!
    Just make sure you’re not stepping on too many toes, veering out of your lane, that kind of stuff. If you struggle with that, keep asking yourself the questions you’re already asking, and in some situations, you might be able to spin it into process improvements or other new ideas.
    And if people can’t appreciate you for who you are, then screw ’em. There are definitely people who will, and you should go find them!

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    1. Nicosloanica*

      Yes, don’t focus on being less; you can still work on being inclusive and kind and not running roughshod over others in your enthusiasm (guilty!) without trying to literally make yourself smaller.

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  43. Trout 'Waver*

    OP, you will never succeed in making yourself so small that the haters will like you.

    Find somewhere that accepts you.

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  44. Sweet 'N Low*

    As a fellow neurodivergent, this letter makes me so sad. It’s really, really hard to live in a world where basically your whole personality is considered to be A Problem. It’s one thing if you’re hurting people or being rude, but 95% of LW’s examples are not that (and to be clear, the other 5% are maybe a little rude or tone deaf, but definitely not hurting anyone).

    I don’t have any good work-related advice, but I did want to say one thing. While it’s an unfortunate reality that most of us have to mask or dial ourselves back at work, LW, please don’t let that affect your sense of self or who you are as a person. You might have to be “less” at work because of silly professional norms, but that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you as a person. It doesn’t mean that you as a person have to be “less”. With what little you’ve said here, you sound like an an awesome person – someone who is enthusiastic, intelligent, kind, and probably a lot of fun to be around. You sound like most of my friends, who babble on endlessly and say weird things sometimes – which I love about them, because I do the same thing. Do what you need to in order to get by at work, but please don’t let that affect you being your enthusiastic, intelligent, kind self the rest of the time.

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  45. MistOrMister*

    OP, in addition to asking a trusted colleague if/how you could redeem your image at the workplace, perhaps you could have a colleague help you out in meetings. I’m iffy on the logistics, but maybe someone you trust that you could sit by and pass a note when you have a question and they can give you a quick thumbs up/thumbs down to let you know if they feel the question is overstepping or not could help you get a better idea of what things to askand which are outside your area of expertise.

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  46. NurseThis*

    The mean comments, there is no excuse for that.

    I did work at a place where one person caused the meetings to go on 2-3x as long as necessary. We’d cover the agenda and then Constance would begin her questions. And a 15 minute meeting turned into a 45 minute meeting every time. However in my mind the fault was our managers for not giving her feedback about reading the room.

    We had metrics for returning calls in a short period of time and people would try to beg out of meetings if Constance was there that day. Or ask to Zoom in and stay at their desk. But again, it was a management issue to address. And they didn’t.

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  48. Ann O'Nemity*

    LW, if you have a trusted mentor or colleague who’s not part of this clique, you might ask them for candid feedback about how you’re perceived. Sometimes an outside perspective can shed light on what’s working and what might still need adjustment. Be open to the idea that it may be too late to change your reputation at this organization.

    If you decide to stay, consider addressing the issue head-on, but with a focus on collaboration rather than apology. For example, you could say something like, “I realize that in the past, I may have come across as overly enthusiastic or forward. I’m working to be more thoughtful in my contributions, and I’d love your feedback as I continue to grow.” This shows awareness, but also signals that you’re moving forward and want to be a part of the team in a positive way. If possible, find opportunities to connect with people in the middle management group one-on-one. Personal connections can help break down groupthink.

    Finally, please don’t overcorrect and try to make yourself small. It’s great that you’ve been thoughtful about not speaking out of turn, don’t feel like you can never contribute. If you’re in a meeting where your expertise is relevant, share it! Just be mindful of the timing and delivery, which you’ve already improved.

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  49. ADHD struggle bus*

    As a late diagnosed ADHD myself, I deeply relate to the fear of being too much! But I’d also echo Alison’s point of not over correcting.

    As a kid I was so afraid of being too much that I got really good at blending in- but it still sucked. A lot. I felt like I was never genuinely my authentic self, couldn’t form relationships with coworkers and was still so, so anxious about giving the exact “right” amount of interest in any interaction.

    I think some of this can be helpful self reflection- to notice overstepping in other people’s jobs or just better understanding social cues (the trap of how “how’s it going?” Really just means hello, not actually wondering how you are). And annoyingly, some of this perception is based on tone and phrasing! Talking about someone else’s job or process is going to come across very differently if you’re friendly with someone and phrase it as, “hey! This is a little random I was wondering why you do X? I wondered if Y makes more sense, but don’t know all the details.” (But even there you run into tone policing and women having to soften their language!)

    But some of this seems really rude from your coworkers, especially the middle management clique! You don’t need to perform every social interaction perfectly to warrant basic respect and kindness at work.

    Ultimately I don’t think this is a You problem you need to solve, it sounds like an issue of comparability with the company culture. If they can’t give you grace in social interactions or the grace to improve relationships, then that’s a culture problem and not something you can fix- all the perfect small talk in the world can’t change the company.

    So sadly I’d have to agree in considering a new role, or find the people at this company that don’t hold this against you, and accept that you can’t please everyone, and some people won’t like you.

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  50. Sweet 'N Low*

    Wanted to leave another quick comment, somewhat-but-not-entirely unrelated to my other one.

    LW, this may or may not help you depending on your situation, but I hope it helps at least some neurodivergent person out there: There are jobs out there where you don’t have to constantly mask. You might not be able to find them at every company or in every industry, but they do exist. And not just jobs where you being “extra” will be tolerated, but where it’ll be an asset! Often they’re the less conventional jobs (I found my neurodivergent-friendly home as a fencing coach of all things) but there’s nothing wrong with that. Less conventional doesn’t equal less valid.

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  51. Distracted Librarian*

    A lot of your description of yourself resonates with me, especially Younger Me. So maybe I’m biased, but your behavior doesn’t sound all that bad to me, especially when weighed against your major contributions. You know what does sound bad to me? How your colleagues are treating you! They’re being openly rude and condescending, including in public situations.

    My advice is to look for a new job. I think your obnoxious colleagues are holding you back more than your tendency to be “extra.” Don’t make yourself small for these people. Find a place that will value and reward you for your strengths instead. Good luck!

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  52. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    Not all mean comments are valid.

    The fact that you are putting so much energy into making sure you aren’t too much while coworkers feel free to say snide and hurtful things is evidence of that. Why are you having to fundamentally change who you are while they get to continue to mock you.

    I am so angry in my neurodivergent heart. Yes there are things we need to do to make sure our quirks do not hurt others, but it goes both ways.

    I vote for talking to your manager but also make plans to move on.

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  53. fluffyllama*

    LW,
    I commiserate.
    I was/am in a similar boat. What my coach helped me with was reading a book ‘what got you here won’t get you there’
    One of the advice offered there, is , ask for direct feedback, then for help then go on a marketing offensive. Tell your boss your mentor your colleagues and your peers about the plan to be a new you. ‘I want to grow sensitivity/ political flair/ I want to listen more etc. Then do your steps, then ask again feedback. Otherwise the reputation is hard to change if you don’t tell people that you’re changing.
    In meetings sometime decline to offer input, just say, ‘I am trying to read the situation more before I offer my opinion’ or something of a kind. Market the new you. It’s not too late and 1 year is not a long time, the progres you made is probably there but not visible to someone who is not ready to have their opinion changed.
    Ask for best practices from your colleagues , show them that you are interested in what they do and why. I’m sure you will learn some things and in the process you will cultivate some good will. Your organization works so they must be doing something right. I am also a very future oriented and change oriented person, but while I’m swinging the lasso in the center of the storm the other guys feel like they’re hanging on for dear life. Ease on the people around you. Choose your battles.
    And in the meantime own your story. When they make a joke you can respond in part .’Oh you know me, Abc is my passion’ and move on.
    I got this feedback 6 years ago :
    ‘ fluffyllama is very passionate about teapot design . Maybe too passionate’. The same guy now willingly put a word for me to be included in a committee for teapot design.
    I still am known as more intensive than usual, not everyone will like my flavor, but I annoy less people. So I consider that growth. I am 100% sure you can do it too.

    Good luck!

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  54. Anon21*

    Gotta say…regardless of the “provocation,” those comments by the middle managers are snide, unprofessional, and unkind. For two different people in supervisory positions to say those things out loud suggests your organization has a culture of tearing down coworkers that will probably show up in other bad ways.

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    1. Nicosloanica*

      Could definitely be a sign of a sick syndrome rather than that OP needs to change or atone from some past missteps.

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    2. Bruce*

      Seconded! I worked at a place where public humiliations were part of the culture, finally found a place that is collegial and supportive, have stuck with it for 24 years!

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  55. Bruce*

    Snide comments like “Little Miss Too Much” would really sting, and they say a lot about the source. My child was working in a toxic organization where they were being singled out in spite of their best efforts, they’ve moved to a new place and the whole environment has changed. Their efforts are praised and they feel valued. Sometimes that is what it takes. I applaud your work to become self aware, and can relate to it… but this ain’t all on you!

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  56. abcd*

    Wow! This hit close to home. Those managers suck OP, I hope you can find a place where your talents, hard work and admirable self reflection/course correction are more appreciated and rewarded

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  57. What is even happening*

    Dude, this has been me, almost to a T. I have gotten through this via a combination of changing jobs, learning to recognise crappy management, going to therapy, working with a work coach, taking ADHD medication after being diagnosed, and finding other things outside of work that I could use my ‘extra-ness’ on.
    -Jobs: I changed, within the same large organisation, to an area of operations where being ‘extra’ was a Huge asset and I did very well, gaining an excellent reputation including for being someone that could be relied upon to ‘clean up’, spot the problems, and develop new systems.
    -crappy management: it was super useful to accept that the misogyny, racism and competitiveness is real. I learned to distance myself, not easy but learning to see the problem is someone else is huge!
    -therapy: has been extremely useful to learn more about myself, what makes me want to do more and challenge some deep seated beliefs that I had no conscious idea that I had (like, I often go ‘extra’ because I fear that if I don’t, then nobody will which is actually not true, and if it were true then maybe it’s not my responsibility? lots to unpack there_
    -work coach: I applied to every coaching opportunity I could find, and when i did get accepted, worked on some of my assumptions and style and getting some hard truths kindly and also some redirection has been super helpful
    – ADHD medication: whoa! a lot of the time being ‘extra’ was because my brain works SO fast and in so many directions at once, that taming that has helped me be a bit more comfortable and measured
    -other focus: I started workign out more, doing things that rrequire lots of focus like sewing, stitching, making sure I got lots of exercise daily, and when I have time then doing other activities with people.

    And here’s the thing: you can’t totally change who you are, and that’s ok! you sound brilliant and amazing. So lean into your strengths! learn to laugh at yourself! and when someone gives you a crappy comment, own it (like others have said) and say ‘yep! I’m the Question Queen woo hoo!’ or throw it back at them and say ‘yep, of course you would say you want questions but not happy when they,re asked… anyhoo, here is my question’; it all depends on your style. If you are well enough established in your career, then just ride things out. If you are starting, then find a new palce where you can be more yourself.

    ADHD people have historically done very well at things that require lots of things happening at the same time, so logistics, emergency response, maybe you can pivot in that direction too?

    Most importantly, YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! You are a wonderful human with gifts and talents and this may not be the best place for you to use them. that’s fine. Just survive for now and find a place that is a better fit if you can.

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  58. RVA Cat*

    OP, you’re at odds with a toxic, sexist, immature culture. Get out before they hurt you more than they already have. They don’t *want* to do better.

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  59. Head Sheep Counter*

    I smell something rotten and I don’t think its OP. I hate to lean on the patriarchy… but… can we? I can, in no world, imagine this being said to man. Instead that man would be promoted (am assuming that “little miss” indicates how LW appears).

    I think you may well be in a … its not me … its you … situation with your work. If the MM is indicative of what you experience you need a new job. A smaller you only leaves less of you for you.

    We all have growth opportunities. Good on you for considering yours.

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  60. The Rise and Fall of Sanctuary Moon*

    OP, a good rule is that whenever managers in a workplace find it ok to make someone’s behavior an “in joke” without including that person in the joke or managing that person about it, there’s a problem with the workplace, not you.
    Take the “Of course you have a question” comment. If that person had said “Of course you have a question. (People laugh.) We laugh, but we rely on you to make sure everything is covered! Please, ask away.” that would have been fine. You are included in the group.
    OR your manager could take you aside privately and say, “I know you pay a lot of attention and have many questions, but some of them are too specific to your work to take everyone’s time. Please write those down instead of asking in the big meeting and we can go through them later.”
    Just making the snide comment is cruel and it prioritizes their camaraderie over getting the best work out of you. That shows bad business priorities as well as bad socializing, so it can’t possibly be the best place for you to grow in your career. I know it’s not easy to look for a good job, but I do think it’s your best solution.

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  61. LadyHouseOfLove*

    The only issue I see here are the middle managers, not you, OP.

    The nicest thing I can say is that they sound like a pack of rabid hyenas.

    I also think you need to ask yourself if they would be doing this if you were a man. Check with your own supervisors and consider your options elsewhere. I hate that when people are being passionate and good at their jobs, they’re being demeaned by jealous colleagues who want to rest on their laurels.*

    Personally, I’d like to see how upper management reacts if a high-achieving employee says they’re leaving because of aforementioned rude managers during an exit interview.

    *And for the record, I have no issue at all with people that want to just clock in and clock out and no more. It’s when I see uneccessary snarkiness thrown at people that work differently from them that I have the issue.

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  62. Bitte Meddler*

    Twice, at two different jobs, when I was first starting out, I made an absolute ass out of myself because I was So Eager! So Very Smart! So Helpful!

    The first time, when I realized what my reputation was, I panicked and quit.

    The second time, having learned that quitting with nothing lined up was a Bad Thing, I decided that I had nothing to lose and said something to my version of OP’s jerk middle manager (it was someone senior to me, but not a manager).

    I asked for her help.

    I said it was great that she’d recognized I had Annoying Habit and had said something about it (I left out that what she’d said was mean and snarky), and asked her to call me on it when I did it again. I told her I realized it was annoying but that when I got like that, I was pretty much operating on autopilot and would welcome an off switch.

    We never became besties or anything, and I think she only called me on it once after the conversation, but just letting her know that I knew (that she saw me as annoying) and that I was working on it seemed to shut down her Mean Girl tendencies.

    Might be something for OP to try. If it doesn’t work, they can always look for another job.

    Reply ↓

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