I panicked and told my boss I miscarried when I actually didn’t

by Alison Green on October 28, 2024

A reader writes:

I recently wet myself at work. I was actually in the bathroom at the time and it was right at the end of lunch. I was in a state such that I was able to go a nearby store and buy fresh clothes, but by the time I cleaned up, changed, and got back to work, I was over an hour past the end of my lunch and I had missed a standing meeting.

I had let my manager know when it first started that I had had an emergency and would be a while getting back. When I returned to my desk, my manager took me aside and pushed me quite hard about what happened. I tried to evade the question, said it was a health issue and private, but she kept asking what was so important that it stopped me from going to a meeting and was clearly angry. I was so embarrassed and upset I said the first thing I could think of to make her stop. I told her I had had a miscarriage. That did indeed end the conversation; she said okay and left the room.

A note — I am aware that I sometimes tell lies when I feel out of control. I have addressed the issue with a therapist and haven’t really lied like this in about a decade. I have never been dishonest at work before. I am really angry and upset with myself first for lying, but also for what a horrible thing it was to lie about. I know I am in the wrong and what I said was unacceptable. I am taking this as an indicator I’m in a bad place so I intend to go back into therapy to address some major stressors in my life and try and prevent something like this ever happen again.

The difficulty is that a friend on my team (same manager) announced today she was pregnant. That colleague told me the manager had asked her to delay the announcement for my sake (I actually already knew so my friend came to apologize to me for sharing unthinkingly and make sure I was okay). I’m concerned my manager will tell more people something similar, since she is a known gossip and little stays private. So my lie may become common knowledge, and I’m worried about the harm it might do to other people who had actually miscarried. The manager is also treating me differently, being very careful with me and speaking to me primarily through email. I’m worried about repercussions if she thinks I’m trying to get pregnant, I’m worried I’ve upset her (I don’t know her story), and I’m scared my working relationship with my manager in jeopardy.

I don’t think telling my manager I didn’t really have a miscarriage will improve anything, but my instincts on this are obviously poor. I know I’ve made an enormous and hurtful mess. Is there any way for me to extricate myself from this situation that doesn’t make everything worse?

Your manager made this mess, not you.

You told her that you’d had a private health emergency and she kept pushing to know what it was. That was none of her business. The only correct response to “I’m so sorry I was late getting back, I had a health issue that I’d rather keep private” is “I’m so sorry to hear that, is there anything you need?” and perhaps “Do you need to go home for the day?”

There was no health issue that would be her business or that she needed to know the details of. You’d provided all the info that was relevant to her and that should have been the end of it. But instead she pushed in a way that threatened your privacy, and you panicked and landed on something that seemed likely to shut her up. It’s understandable, and you’re beating yourself up more than is warranted.

Nor do I think you did any harm to people who have actually miscarried. Many, many people have miscarried; you’re not stealing anything from them by having landed on that when grasping for an answer that would make your manager stop prying.

And your manager is the one who has clean-up to do here, not you. She told your coworker without your permission that you’d miscarried — that’s a huge violation of your privacy, regardless of what actually happened and even if she divulged it in a well-meaning way. You could go back to your manager now and say, “I’m very private about this sort of thing and didn’t want to share it with anyone at work, so please do not repeat it to anyone.” If you’re comfortable being more specific, you could say, “Jane told me that you’d shared it with her, and while I understand what your thinking was, I want to stress that I do not want this shared with anyone else.”

Do you have competent HR? Because it might also be worth a visit to them to say that your manager pressured you to share private health info and then repeated it to someone else and you’ve seen her gossip about others in the past, and ask that she be trained in handling employees’ private medical info. You can do this even though you didn’t actually miscarry; your manager was in the wrong regardless.

Hopefully the reason your manager is treating you so carefully right now is because she knows she messed up. If so, good — maybe it’ll be a lesson for her not to push the next time someone says “private health issue” and maybe that will help out others who work for her in the future.

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{ 421 comments }

{ 421 comments… read them below }

  1. Baela Targaryen*

    I am someone who had to get time off for an abortion, and I’ve never once felt regret for calling it a miscarriage around those who were not entitled to the details of my private life.

    You’ve done nothing wrong — your manager sucks.

    1. Meep*

      Yeah, I know LW feels guilty about lying, but honestly in this case? If people push just say it was a chemical miscarriage (which account for a huge chunk of miscarriages) and you don’t even know you were pregnant until that moment. Again, I know telling a lie on top of a lie isn’t particularly helpful FOR THEM, but the manager sucks so much for not only pushing but gossiping, I would give LW a pass this one time.

      1. Ellie*

        Or you can say it was a surprise as you weren’t trying, and you’re really ok about it, baby will be waiting in the future, etc. But really, she isn’t entitled to know anything about your private life and it was a massive overstep to have insisted on it. Also, she didn’t tell you to go home for the day??? Don’t waste another minute on this horrible person. Lying is perfectly fine in this scenario.

      2. I Would Rather Be Eating Dumplings*

        I would avoid giving any further information. Chemical miscarriages (I’ve had one myself) are by definition hard to notice, so adding that detail will probably add questions to the story rather than settle them.

        The point here is that its no one’s business.

    2. Mkitty*

      As someone who had an abortion as well as multiple miscarriages, I completely agree with Baela Targaryen. You haven’t caused harm to anyone who’s had a miscarriage. Your manger is a terrible person who pushed you into a corner by insisting you give her private information and didn’t deserve the truth. There’s no need to beat yourself up for the particulars of the lie.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I’ll chime in and say as someone who’s had several miscarriages, I’m not offended by the lie. I’m genuinely more disturbed by the management.
        Also OP if this bathroom issue is unexpected or recurring, please see a doctor – incontinence is a symptom of multiple issues (for me, spinal discs moving where they shouldn’t be) and NOTHING is too embarrassing to talk to a doctor about

        1. Femininomenon*

          Yes, OP, please bring this up with your doctor and ask about a referral to pelvic floor PT. It has been life changing for me! In the meantime, poise pads are very, very helpful.

      2. Ipsissima*

        Chiming in as another person who’s had miscarriages. I’m not offended in the least, except by your boss’s weird and inappropriate insistence on knowing about your personal health! Everyone is different, and everyone’s experience is different, but I think the comments here have made it pretty clear that you’re not at fault here, you haven’t done something horrible and insensitive, and the only person who should be mortified is your boss.

        (Also as someone fed up with other people’s intrusive interest in my reproductive health, I have been known to fake a breakdown over the miscarriages when someone gets a little too nosy about why I don’t have children. Is it wrong? Maybe. Does it shut them up? Absolutely.)

      3. Schwa Alaska*

        Unless I missed something, it seems based on the letter that the OP was not pregnant at the time this incident occurred – the miscarriage not only did not actually occur, it could not have occurred due to the OP not having been pregnant at the time. So there’s not going to be a weird pregnancy coverup needed.

        1. Greg*

          Yes, I started out reading this letter under the assumption that she was pregnant, but that does not appear to be the case (she presumably would have mentioned if she were). If she were pregnant, that would certainly complicate things when the baby eventually did arrive. But assuming there never was any pregnancy, her lie is unlikely to cause her any problems down the road, since none of the details are the business of any of her coworkers

      5. Ellie*

        A bad manager is likely to transfer the embarrassment she now feels into anger at the OP. I’d stick with the lie, its easier, and maybe it will make the manager think twice before insisting on knowing why someone misses stand-up again.

    4. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

      Had that happen twice. First time I thought I’d be honest about getting an abortion and let’s just say it went as bad as you can imagine.

      Second one, some fifteen years later, I told anyone who asked that I’d had an ovarian cyst detonate.

      I firmly believe anyone with a uterus has the right to care and to say whatever they darn well please to nosy bystanders.

      1. Vio*

        Agreed but I’d extend it to apply to any health or private life information that isn’t absolutely essential for somebody to know. Lots of people are private about lots of things for lots of reasons. If somebody asks for information they have no right to and persist after a polite but firm refusal then a lie is absolutely acceptable behaviour. A lie is a tool and just like most tools can be used for good or ill.

    5. Yellow*

      Agreed. 2 miscarriages here (both of which actually happned at work- A horror I wish on no one). Your manager sucks and you panicked and said what you said. It’s fine. You do not need to feel bad about this anymore.
      Frankly you may have done someone, somewhere a bit of good, by accidentally getting people to talk about miscarriage and how it’s a thing that happens at any time and place, and they often happen at work.

      1. Nebula*

        Yes, and if the manager learns from this not to tell other people about coworkers’ miscarriages (so egregious I can’t believe I’m typing that) then the LW might have inadvertently saved someone grief in the future.

    6. Moo*

      Ditto @ Baela. As someone who has had multiple miscarriages and a TFMR, I told a few close friends what was really happening, but told most people that we “lost” the baby. Because we did lose him. No one needs to know any of my private information and I do not blame OP for saying she miscarried when presented with something so egregious. OP has done no harm to anyone else who has had the experience either.

      1. TriviaJunkie*

        Also had a tfmr, and while we are open about it (even the judgy folks keep their traps shut when baby’s chances are zero), new folks get told stillbirth. Because either way, that’s what it was.

        Folks at work still have no idea what really happened though.

        OP is fine to have said miscarriage. It’s entirely possible boss would have done this to someone actually experiencing a miscarriage, and OP just stopped that from happening. If that’s a possibility, I’ll call her actions helpful.

    7. Beth*

      Agreed – OP, this was a reasonable situation to lie! Your manager was pushing unreasonably hard for information that she had no right to. You found a way to protect yourself and shut her down, and didn’t hurt anyone else in the process. (Your manager being potentially upset doesn’t count as harm here. She absolutely insisted on you telling her what your private medical issue was; she doesn’t get to invade your privacy like that and then claim you harmed her.)

      I understand why your response concerned you given your history with lying. But this is actually a situation where lying is warranted–the alternative was an invasion of your privacy that could harm you, and lying was the only tool you had at your disposal to protect yourself. It’s not a commentary on your overall honesty or judgment. Your manager is the one who should be doing this level of self-interrogation, not you.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        Exactly. This was the opposite of a problematic lie–saying something like that on purpose for attention or sympathy, for instance. This was a person pushed to reveal something that was not her manager’s business and she blurted out the first random thing she thought of.

        LW, none of this is your fault.

    8. ubotie*

      IIRC, the medical term for a miscarriage is “spontaneous abortion” so it’s not like you were even “lying” by omission (not that you should feel like you have to defend your choice but given the state of the world these days as far as women’s reproductive choices). If people want to get their back up about a legitimate medical term that has been in use for X knows how many years, that’s their own dang fault for being dingbats.

    9. Wendy Darling*

      I haven’t had a miscarriage but I have had multiple major traumas I don’t want to discuss at work and tbh I feel like if anything LW is protecting people who DID actually miscarry at work by giving her horrible manager the experience of putting her foot in it. Maybe the manager will learn not to be invasive about people’s sensitive medical stuff next time. (Maybe not but I live in hope…)

    10. SuperAdmin*

      The way I see it, this isn’t dissimilar to when people push me about when I’m going to have kids and I reply that my husband and I can’t have children (I just don’t tell them that’s because he had a vasectomy). When people push you, you say something to make them stop pushing. That’s what happened here.

      OP, your boss sucks so hard. You fibbed, but it’s not a big deal.

    11. Vixen of the Bean Realm*

      Yep- when I needed time off for my abortion I told my nosey (male) boss that I had to get ovarian cysts removed.
      He immediately left me well alone after that.

      This is OP’s manager’s fault. She should forget all about the lie; sometimes that’s just what happens in the moment.

  2. Mouse*

    I’m not sure digging in and going to HR is the right move, here. There’s too much of a risk that the lie will spiral out of control.

    OP, I don’t blame you for lying AT ALL. I can easily imagine myself doing something similar in your position. But I would recommend just quietly trying to move on from this point.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I’m fully with this. OP, you can gain control of the situation by moving forward. People (who are not loons like your boss) will follow YOUR lead and press you for more than you need to give. And what you need to give is, thank you for thinking of me, how are you/how are the KPIs?

    2. T.N.H*

      I doubt the lie will spiral out of control. What else is there to talk about? The only issue I can see is if now people are speculating on LWs reproductive choices (i.e. they might think she’s trying, as discussed in the letter).

      1. londonedit*

        I imagine it’s more of a what if the OP goes to HR and says the boss forced her to say she’d miscarried, and then told colleagues about it, and HR say SHE DID WHAT and haul the boss in and start disciplinary proceedings and the whole thing blows up into a huge deal. And then it’s either watch the boss being formally disciplined/possibly even sacked, or admit it was a lie. Of course the boss still shouldn’t have done any of it, but it does have the potential to spiral into a bigger deal than it is already.

        1. T.N.H*

          I mean, if that happens… good? The boss shared private medical information. I don’t think it’s relevant that it wasn’t true. She probably should be fired.

          1. A Book about Metals*

            Would a one time slip like that really be a firing offense? I’m thinking of all the sh*t I’ve seen people get away with over the years…

            1. T.N.H*

              It wasn’t a one time slip though. First she berated OP into giving up private medical info. I would be extremely surprised if this wasn’t the tip of the ice berg.

              1. Slow Gin Lizz*

                Tip of the iceberg, I bet. Highly unlikely that this is the first or only HR-reporting worthy offense on this boss’ resume.

            3. Less sexy more librarian*

              Other people getting away with shit for years doesn’t make that status quo right. The sharing of private medical information one never should have had in the first place and that was forced out should indeed be a fireable offense if it comes to that. And the in-/accuracy of the information is frankly irrelevant.

              1. A Book about Metals*

                I’m not sure I agree it should be fireable if this is the manager’s first incident. IMO this isn’t a one and done type of offense.

                1. Eats cakes and leaves*

                  I think sharing a piece of information about a person’s health issues, after bullying the information about of them, is a fireable issue even if it only occurred once. LW indicates this is a pattern of behaviour, but even if it were a complete one-off, a woman has disclosed a health issue that has already caused a shift in the way others in the workplace are behaving. GDPR legislation is clear on data breaches being equally serious whether there is one breach or a series of breaches.

                2. Jules the 3rd*

                  “Sharing reproductive health information without permission” should be one and done. Discretion is a critical skill for managers, and especially in today’s political climate (assuming this is USA), where women are being arrested for miscarriages, this is egregious.

                  I dunno if I would push it in this instance, but if I’d really had a miscarriage and my manager told people w/out my permission, I would be in HR’s office so fast….

                3. Working Class Lady*

                  I would place doubt that this is the manager’s first offense, though.
                  Decent people don’t press for info like that when it comes to someone else’s medical info.

                4. Working Class Lady*

                  I agree with others that this should be a fireable offense even if it’s the first.
                  It’s absolutely deliberate and mal-intentioned. OP’s manager knew exactly what she was doing. She wasn’t entitled to that information to begin with, but then to GOSSIP about it to the rest if the office????

                  No. OP should go straight to HR I there is one and file a complaint.

          2. Schwa Alaska*

            Exactly. Like, even if the interrogation had led OP to say what actually happened, the interrogation was still out of line, and telling others about it (even if there was actually good intention behind that choice) was still out of line. The latter might not have even happened if OP had reported the truth, but the former would still be out of line.

          3. froodle*

            I agree,but if OP is already stressed about telling one (very understandable!) lie, I think putting themselves in a situation where they have to double down on it is going to compound the issue *for them*.

        2. Fluffy Fish*

          OP doesn’t even need to disclose to HR she said she miscarried. Its enough to say the manager wouldn’t take a medical issue as enough and pushed until she disclosed. And that the manager then disclosed to another employee.

          What the company does is not OP’s responsibility. If they think its something to formally discipline over than that’s the company’s decision. It’s not because its a “miscarriage” its because they pushed for private info and then turned around and disclosed it.

        3. Not on board*

          You would be reporting the boss for violating your medical privacy – it’s actually irrelevant that OP did not have a miscarriage and that actually isn’t part of the discussion.
          The only things that matter are:
          A. boss forced employee to divulge the nature of their medical emergency when it’s none of their business
          B. the boss then told another person the nature of their medical emergency

          The rest doesn’t matter at all.

          1. A Book about Metals*

            It may be more that the OP would rather just put it behind her and move on which I wouldn’t blame her for

            1. Observer*

              That I can understand.

              But the idea that the lie would “spin out of control” or anything like that just overstates the case, and misses the point.

          2. Not that other person you didn't like*

            Yeah, it doesn’t matter if the medical information is accurate or not, it’s still not OK to disclose it without permission. I mean, I can say I have (insert random diagnosis) and even if it turns out I don’t (either because I was mistaken, through further testing, or because I made it up entirely) it’s still private medical information.

        4. Smithy*

          Yeah – I’m also someone who’s had issues with telling lies when I’m feeling stressed/cornered. It is 100% a sign of other personal mental health issues at play that I want to stay on top of.

          Basically, even if the lies I tell aren’t necessarily problematic or prone to be found out – the more I default to lies of appeasement, the more I default to lies of appeasement. This isn’t to say that the OP needs to confess this lie to their manager, but to flag this for HR means continuing to tell the lie. And at least for me, this would not be a benefit to my broader mental health. It would have me retelling the lie, potentially needing to add details – just overall not great.

          What the manager did wasn’t great. And for so so many people, soiling yourself as an adult comes with a lot of shame and misery. So not having the best reaction in the moment is not the OP’s fault, but provided this supervisor doesn’t continue to act in this way – reliving this moment with HR would not put me in a better place.

          1. Observer*

            to flag this for HR means continuing to tell the lie.

            I don’t think that’s true. I mean if that’s the way it works for the LW, then she obviously needs to take that into account. But for the most part, what the LW needs to flag for HR is not the specific information but “My manger insisted on knowing the *details* of a private medical emergency and the *disclosed those details to someone else*.” That would be exactly what I would suggest the LW to tell HR, even if she had actually told her manager the truth.

            provided this supervisor doesn’t continue to act in this way

            So that’s part of the problem. The LW says that the manager actually has a pattern of this kind of sharing.

          2. Bitte Meddler*

            Saying to HR, “I had a private, emergency health event at work. I left the office to deal with it and was gone longer than expected. My boss pushed and pushed for an explanation of what the health issue was, and it was clear she was angry at me. Even though I’d rather keep the specifics private, I told her. It pains me that she knows this information, but it’s worse: She told other people. I thought health information was supposed to be kept private, but now I have to worry who knows this about me and what they are saying, which is not exactly a great environment to work in.”

            100% true. No lies. And OP is fine not giving any health specifics to HR, who will certainly understand why. It’s not like OP was requesting, say, a hybrid work schedule or remote work, where they’d need to disclose medical info to negotiate an accommodation.

            This was just OP missing an hour of work to deal with a medical situation. OP’s manager was WAAAAAY out of line and HR needs to know that.

            1. Don't Comment Much*

              Yes, but when they go to the supervisor, I’d think there would be a good chance she would mention the miscarriage in her explanation.

            2. A Book about Metals*

              I think HR only needs to know if OP is comfortable bringing it to them. I can see her not wanting to deal with this embarassing situation any longer and just wanting to put it in the past.

              1. Bitte Meddler*

                Oh, for sure. I don’t think anyone, including me, is insisting that OP go to HR. But if she wants to, there are ways to phrase the complaint that don’t compound the lie.

        5. Observer*

          And then it’s either watch the boss being formally disciplined/possibly even sacked, or admit it was a lie.

          Why would it matter? If the boss gets sacked over this, it would not be because the LW did or did not have a MC, it would possibly be because the manager pressured the LW inappropriately, and definitely because she then proceeded to gossip about stuff that she should be keeping her mouth shut about. And they won’t sack her over one incident unless she gets really stupid and doubles down. If they do move to sacking her, it will be because they discover that she does this a lot. In either case, the whole issue moves away from the LW anyway.

        6. Jalee*

          But she should be disciplined/sacked. She had no business processing for more information or sharing private medical informations with anyone else. That is the problem. Not the lie.

        7. Lenora Rose*

          Think about it this way – if OP had told the truth, and the boss had passed THAT on … the boss would be exactly the same amount of inappropriate, and the only difference is the OP’s vague feeling of guilt would be replaced by a greater one of humiliation.

          That the OP lied is inappropriate, of course, but they own that part and have indicated they’re taking steps to deal with it. Meanwhile, the thing their manager did remains inappropriate and should be handled.

          1. allathian*

            No, lying to someone who’s pressing for information they aren’t entitled to isn’t inappropriate when they refuse to accept truthful evasions. The only reason it’s even slightly a problem is that the LW has admitted she has a history of lying when she’s stressed and wants to get out of an uncomfortable situation. If she didn’t have a history like that, protective lying would be a perfectly appropriate response.

            I’m generally a truthful person, but that’s because my episodic memory is so poor that I couldn’t keep track of complicated lies for very long. That said, I don’t always tell the full truth, and I basically lie by omission pretty much every day.

        8. LL*

          Except what the boss did was wrong regardless of whether or not OP lied. The boss SHOULD be disciplined or fired for forcing an employee to disclose personal medical information that is none of the boss’ business.

      2. Nicosloanica*

        I mean, I can think of a lot of implications. For one thing, I’m single (no idea if OP is) so my coworkers, who can be gossipy, would immediately be spinning up about who I might have been seeing (who’s the father). If OP is married that will be less of an issue, but as she says, she’s now concerned her manager thinks she’s trying or otherwise likely to become pregnant, which is unfortunately a large reputation risk for women in some workplaces. Finally she’s apparently going to be treated like pregnancy and childbirth are hot button topics for her that need to be tiptoed around, which will get increasingly annoying.

        1. Expelliarmus*

          Your last point strikes me as interesting, because while I agree with you, I’ve seen other letters on this site where people are like “OMG don’t force pregnancy and childbirth talk on people at work because you never know what they’ve gone through”, so that potential outcome being part of a net negative is counter to what I’ve seen on here before.

          1. But Of Course*

            There is a big difference between extending people the kindness of not talking about topics many may find difficult (and you can lump a lot of things under that heading) and treating a specific person as a fragile flower who cannot have something spoken of in their presence. It’s found entirely in whether you are treating one single person as an exceptional aberration from the rest of humanity.

            1. Lenora Rose*

              Well, and treating one person who had a miscarriage as a “fragile flower” — while unaware that there might well be 5-6 others in the same vicinity who did — is itself indicative of an issue. Miscarriages are way more common than many people think, and among those who’ve attempted to get pregnant/have kids, the person who never had one is likely rarer than the one who has.

              Even people who do have actual triggers (real meaning) around the topic aren’t usually asking for “fragile flower” treatment so much as caution when broaching the subject. (And most of them will understand it’s their issue to solve, rather than rain on the parade of the the pregnant person.)

      3. Liane*

        I agree with T.N.H. Early miscarriages often look like a very heavy period, albeit possibly late. Thus entirely plausible she thought it was a miscarriage when it happened.

        Yeah boss is a loon, sucks, & neither is going to change.

        1. T.N.H*

          Yes, thank you! I had a chemical pregnancy which is almost indistinguishable from a normal period. There’s no medical way this can be proven/disproven (assuming it’s too late for a positive test).

      4. Meep*

        This is why I think if people PUSH, it is perfectly acceptable to /imply/ she didn’t know she was pregnant until that moment and it was a chemical miscarriage. Basically, “thank you for your concern, but I am fine. It wasn’t planned.”

        I know it is a lie and is traumatizing LW, but a lie by admission is fine in this case.

    3. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Yes, I kind of feel the same way. That manager was out of control and LW deserved their right to privacy for their bathroom emergency and any information they gave to their manager afterwards, whether true or false.

      But LW probably just wants to have the miscarriage lies disappear and incorporating HR isn’t going to allow for that. It runs a larger risk of allowing the lie to further if LW runs the risk of lying when the situation is not in their control.

      1. Cheap ass rolling with it*

        I disagree. If LW goes to HR, HR should squash any more talk about LW’s medical information. The problem is the manager is gossipy and will probably keep spreading LW’s miscarriage lie unless HR stops it.

    4. Kara*

      Hard disagree with this.

      I can completely see why OP jumped to “miscarry” – becuase it’s something that people generally won’t ask intrusive questions about and it’s something that isn’t outwardly visible. There is no reason for it to “spiral out of control” becuase as far as everyone is concerned – including OP, it’s something that happened, it’s over, and she doesn’t want to talk about it. The end.

      What the manager did was unacceptable – both is pressing OP for more details after being told it was a health issue and then in sharing what OP told her (true or otherwise) with other employees. OP needs to go to HR and let them know exactly those two things. There’s no need to do any kind of deep dive into the “facts” of the “miscarriage”. The issue here is not what the OPs health issue is or was or what she said it is or was … it’s that the manager in this situation was out of line all over the place.

      In fact OP can say to HR something like “I don’t want to continue to talk about the details of my health issue; that’s irrelevant to my concern which is that my manager has violated my medical privacy multiple times and I’d like to not happen again. To me or anyone else in the organization.”

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        This is a great script.

        I agree with the concern of a lie spiraling, but the heart of the report isn’t what LW said, it’s that AwfulBoss pushed to know the details of a private medical emergency *and* shared those details. LW has zero need to disclose to HR what the medical emergency was, nor what they told Awful Boss what the medical emergency was, just that LW was forced to disclose details.

        1. NotBatman*

          Also, I’m horrified to think about what would’ve happened if LW had told their manager the truth. People do soil themselves sometimes, but it comes with a tremendous amount of shame and stigma. Imagine the boss gossiping about that instead, and/or demanding to know why it happened to LW. It wouldn’t be safe to give this boss the truth, as she has made clear with her past behavior.

          1. Hobbit*

            I have IBS which has resulted in the need for a sudden change of clothes on a couple of occasions. I’ve discovered that if you mention having to change clothes people tend to assume it is period related. And no one has ever brought up the wardrobe change to me so either they didn’t notice or they jumped to a conclusion about it that they didn’t feel the need to share.

      2. Evaseawynd*

        I think OP saved herself a great deal of grief by lying, actually! Since the manager told people about it, it’s safe to assume she would have done the same with the truth. At least now OP is experiencing compassion instead of ridicule.

    5. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      If HR is competent, that shouldn’t happen. And I’d argue it’s important for the boss to be told that she absolutely cannot share employees’ private medical information.

    6. I guess my entire company was the real work wife the whole time.*

      I disagree. This isn’t a lie that could “spiral out of control” the same way, for example, “I am currently pregnant and will be giving birth soon” would be. As long as she doesn’t repeat the claim, if anybody else learns about it, that’s not on her. It’s not her fault. But Alison is right: OP was harassed for private health information and what she shared was inappropriately told to other people.

    7. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I’m unsure how I feel about this. The manager has a history of gossiping and is telling other people news about OP’s health that OP did not authorize her to tell. Yes, the “news” is not true but still…if OP was honest that she’d had a bladder control incident it wouldn’t be ok for the manager to spread that around either!

      I’d probably only go to HR if I knew for sure that this HR group does a good job dealing with issues.

      1. Nicosloanica*

        +1 I agreed with the rest of the advice but I paused at that point. OP wants fewer people to hear this story, not more people.

      2. Cats and Bats Rule*

        Came here to say this. I think this boss would have no qualms about spreading the bladder issue around and possibly laughing about it while doing it.

    8. Seashell*

      Totally agree to avoid talking HR about this. LW got away with a lie (which I can understand to some extent under the circumstance), so she shouldn’t push her luck. Let it become water under the bridge, and hopefully a repeat of this situation won’t happen.

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        I agree with not talking to HR about this because OP currently feels guilty about lying. Reliving it for however long it takes is not going to benefit OP. Manager has a history of gossiping and sharing private information. OP is not in a place mentally, emotionally, and honestly, professionally to be the whistleblower on this. If there are other instances in the past, there will be other instances in the future. What OP should gain from this experience the power to say “Question asked and answered. I cannot discuss medical details at work.”

    9. learnedthehardway*

      Eh – I would say this IS a good thing to go to HR about. While the OP lied about the actual situation, it realistically COULD HAVE BEEN true, there’s nothing to refute that it wasn’t true, and the manager should be educated on A) not pushing for medical information to which they are not entitled, and B) disclosing said medical information to other people.

      The OP is in a good position to use her mistake for a good cause, if she feels up to it. She shouldn’t feel obligated, though.

      OP, I would not correct the lie, either. It COULD have been true. And you DID have a medical situation. Just not the one that you said it was.

    10. Observer*

      There’s too much of a risk that the lie will spiral out of control.

      The issue here is not that the LW did or did not have a miscarriage. But that the manager is spreading gossip all over the place. That’s *hugely* inappropriate.

      What if the LW had told the truth and said “I had bathroom issues that turned into a real emergency. The details are TMI, and you really don’t want the details.” Would it be OK for the boss to share that? Absolutely not!

      A lot depends on the competence of HR, here. But if they *are* competent, they won’t care what the medical issue was. They will understand that the LW is uncomfortable with it being shared, and they will also understand that if this is a pattern of behavior it is real problem, with potential legal ramifications. Especially if she has access to medical information that is legally protected, but also because of things like ADA, etc.

    11. Artemesia*

      I agree. Do not change your story here and tell the truth — that will be much worse for you. Live through it. Your boss was a jerk. What you did was understandable.

    12. Hyaline*

      Agree. For one, if your HR sucks, this could be a miserable experience. But even if they’re good, I would not drag this out by going to HR. I get the sense that what LW wants is for this situation to be in the rearview as quickly as possible–going to HR will only prolong her misery over the whole thing. It’s worth telling the boss “I need you to stop spreading personal information shared in confidence, I *do not* want this to be public knowledge, and you do not have to police who says what about pregnancy around me, so there’s no need to share” but pulling HR in seems to be the opposite of what LW wants out of this situation–for everyone to forget about it as quickly as possible. The only game-changer on this would be if this were a persistent issue–that the boss had shared confidential information before and LW could point to a pattern and felt concern that it would happen again. But without that–this situation is a cluster that you’re better off just closing the book on.

    13. Tiger Snake*

      I’m not 100% I agree.

      Right now, OOP had an incident at work – in the work bathroom – disappeared, and then returned 1.5 hrs later. That’s 100% fine to claim as an emergency or once-off health issue, and its 100% her business only. But claiming that it was a miscarriage smells really funny. She had a miscarriage and was back at work an hour later? She had a miscarriage in the work bathroom?

      Sure, that could potentially be possible, but it’s a really big stretch – any way you try to interpret that information, it’s hard for it to stand up to scrutiny, and the problem is the fact it doesn’t stand up at all makes you WANT to scrutinise it all the more.

      OOP’s manager has already shown that she’ll push and doesn’t show good judgement. Either her manager thinks that OOP is misusing the concept of ‘health emergency’ and was pushing because this was part of a wider issue – in which case this new lie adds to the problem – or OOP’s manager has shown themselves to be a busy body and a bit of a gossip, who in no way would let the lie stand when it becomes clear it doesn’t actually make sense.

      So, I think that OOP’s dug a deeper hole for themselves, and that trying to leave this as it is currently will going to cause them more trouble. We don’t have to even get into the ethics about faking a claim about a miscarriage in and of itself, because the lie is so questionable that it seems obvious that it’s going to cause so much more drama down the line.

      1. carrot cake*

        “the problem is the fact it doesn’t stand up at all makes you WANT to scrutinise it all the more.”

        —

        Speak for yourself. I wouldn’t “scrutinise” things, nor would I want to. I’d feel badly for the person and hope that her grief was kind and merciful.

        In other words, I’d mind my own beezwax.

      2. ASD always*

        It’s really not a stretch, an early miscarriage isn’t necessarily that physically dramatic. I mean, I once had one where I’d started hormonal birth control just a little too late to prevent conception, and while it freaked me the F out, my only physical symptoms once I’d left the bathroom were adrenaline-related.

      3. N C Kiddle*

        I’m not sure what you think a miscarriage looks like, but if it’s early enough in gestation it looks much like an extra heavy period. So the idea that someone could take care of it in the workplace toilets is well within what could plausibly happen.

      4. Anonymous for this*

        Uh, I had two miscarriages at work.

        1) they’re a process that can take days. Sometimes it’s just like a heavy period. Sometimes you only know after the fact whether you actually miscarried or just bled a lot but kept the pregnancy.
        2) I did not have to leave work either time, and both times the miscarriages were fast and the bulk of it happened at work.

  3. shrinking violet*

    OP, please listen to Alison. THIS WAS NOT YOUR FAULT! Your manager had no business pushing you to tell her more. Any decent therapist will tell you the same.
    I’m so sorry she put you through this.

  4. Not Your Mother*

    OP, please have a bit of compassion for yourself as much as you can. The power dynamics with a boss can be stressful even at the best of times — and doubly so for a boss that’s so horribly pushy about a private medical situation — so of course your brain came up with something to put a stop to the inquisition. Your boss is the one who’s made an enormous and hurtful mess, not you. Deep breaths!

    1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      This exactly. It sounds like your boss put you under A LOT of pressure in this situation. Since she has power over you, that pressure is powerful. She left you no good options. Don’t beat yourself up too much about it, OK.

    2. ferrina*

      It sounds like OP has a history with lying. One thing that’s really valuable for OP to recognize is that there is a big difference between feeling like you have no control and being in a situation where you have no control. I know people who lie to keep them out of uncomfortable situations. These people (yes, there are multiple) are highly conflict avoidant and have an avoidant attachment style that makes them very unwilling to express any kind of vulnerability, and this means that they lie any time there’s a situation that could paint them in a bad light. It doesn’t matter if they are actually the people who have the power or if the stakes are low. On the other hand, I grew up in a bad family situation where I had no power. I’ve had terrible bosses who pretended like power dynamics didn’t exist then pressured me to do things that were unethical/illegal, but I didn’t have the financial resources to walk away from the job.

      OP, when someone with power over your livelihood is pressuring you to give health details that are irrelevant and private, and they won’t take no for an answer, that’s a rare time when lying is fine. It would have been nice if your brain had enough bandwidth to come up with a different lie (explosive diarrhea usually stops conversations), but you can give yourself a pass on this one. This is in a different category than lying to avoid a difficult but necessary conversation.

      1. NotBatman*

        This is a good point. A woman who falsely tells a man “my boyfriend is waiting at home for me” has done nothing wrong if this is the sixth time he’s asking her out.

        There was a real threat to LW’s livelihood in this situation, and LW got out of it the best they could. We can all wish it was a different lie (e.g. “I fainted”) but it’s impossible to think that quickly/clearly under that much stress.

  5. Dust Bunny*

    While I appreciate your contrition and your decision to go back to therapy–it sounds like you might need it to deal with your boss!–your boss was seriously out-of-line, both in this instance and, its sounds, in general if she’s a known gossip, and this is a her problem far more than it is a you problem. Or at least, it should be–I hope you have decent HR.

    1. Observer*

      This.

      Yes, you probably should be going back to therapy. And good on you for recognizing the signals!

      But at the same time, please recognize that your boss’ behavior is out of line here. You haven’t done anyone any damage, and what damage there could be would be a total non-issue if your boss were not a prying gossip.

      As for your concern that she would hold it against you that you are trying to have a child (or that she thinks so), that would be illegal. And if you have a solid reason to believe that this would actually happen, that’s a real problem. It’s not *your* problem, although it’s likely to hurt you. But that’s all the more reason that HR should be monitoring her behavior more closely, even though I don’t think you want to discuss this particular issue with HR (you don’t really want to get into what you specifically told her under the circumstances.)

  6. Sweet Summer Child*

    Therapy yes, but to help you balance your guilt with the reality that you were put in a horrible situation and reacted to protect yourself.

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      also therapy to understand why you are spiraling out of control. Especially with this manager.
      Work is clearly affecting your mental health. Do you need to change departments to get away from this particular manager? Or do you need to get out of the company altogether? I am not saying jump ship right away, I am saying explore how working for this particular manager is affecting you and what your options are.

      P.S. I would have lied too to shut the manager up. The details were none of her business once she learned you had a health emergency. Which btw, I am sorry you had to deal with your emergency, I’m sure that didn’t help matters considering what it was.

      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        It could be an addendum to Captain Awkward’s “reasons are for reasonable people.” The truth is for people who will behave acceptably in response. The LW already knew that the boss wouldn’t behave acceptably. And how she behaved after the lie is more evidence the LW was right on that one!

      2. amoeba*

        Yeah, I mean, it was a bit of an unfortunate lie, as it caused further comments etc. – but that can happen if you’re put on the spot/pressured like that! The lie itself, I’d have zero (moral or other) qualms about. Like, if she’d said “it was a period accident” or whatever – absolutely OK. The manager does not have a right to get your private medical information, and if lying is the only way to shut her up, that’s 100% on her!

        (Also, I have actually lied in a similar situation – although I worked in a lab so my excuse was “I spilled a chemical and got some on my clothes, so I had to go and change”. In that case, they weren’t even pressuring me or anything, it was just easier than going the “private medical thing” route. Still don’t feel bad about that at all.)

        1. Nobby Nobbs*

          I can understand if self-protective lying under pressure is a habit OP wants to break or avoid falling back into, but that doesn’t make this particular lie something to have moral qualms over.

          1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

            Agree. I don’t think this is the beginning of a “lie to get out of normal but stressful things” relapse. This is a “I’m trapped in a town with no kosher food options for 72 hours and I have to eat something,” situation. You haven’t abandoned your faith or your path, you did what you had to do to get through the day.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Yeah, it sounds like the OP could do well to get back in with her therapist but not because of the lie.

      1. ferrina*

        Agree. OP doesn’t seem to recognize how wildly out of line her manager is. And this has to be the tip of the iceberg- a manager that inappropriately demands private health information then shares that information is not magically a wonderful boss in all other ways.

        OP, go to therapy to figure out why you think this is an okay way to be treated. You are more worried about hurting other people (like people that actually miscarried) than how you are being treated by your awful manager. What is going on? Why is this treatment not making you run for the exits? I suspect this might stem from the same core issue as the lying (both lying and not realizing bad situations can be maladaptive symptoms of a child that was made to be responsible for adults’ feelings- the child internalizes that this treatment is acceptable and does whatever is necessary to make sure the adult doesn’t get angry/have a big reaction, including lying). You need to go back to therapy to get this figured out. It also worries me that you don’t trust your instincts. Bad people will take advantage of that- get to a place where you can trust yourself.

        And please, OP, start the job search. It doesn’t need to be right now, but you need to work on an exit plan. This place sounds awful.

    3. Massive Dynamic*

      Yes, your boss was monstrous to you. And for what it’s worth, I think it was a clever lie! You needed something to stop her bad behavior in its tracks.

      Also, miscarriages are way more common than most people realize, especially very early on. I knew about my two because we were trying and testing but had I not, I would have thought I was just having horrendous periods a week or so after I was due.

      1. allathian*

        Yup. I’ve had two first trimester miscarriages when I needed medical intervention. I’ve also had one chemical pregnancy that ended with an unusually heavy period (for two days I had to change heavy night pads about once an hour and I had to call in sick at work because I couldn’t sit upright or sleep). I’ve had other delayed periods that may or may not have been chemical pregnancies (we weren’t actively trying but neither were we doing anything to prevent a potential pregnancy), but none were as heavy as that one and I didn’t need medical intervention to deal with them.

        According to some estimates, about one in every four pregnancies ends before the pregnant person is aware of the pregnancy, so it’s very, very common.

        I also think the lie was quite clever, and I certainly hope the manager learned something from it.

    4. ariel*

      100%. As you are gaining clarity with yourself, also think about what else is happening at work that is possibly toxic. Does your boss press you needlessly on other things as well?

    5. ecnaseener*

      Agreed. It’s natural to feel like “oh no, I did the thing I’ve been trying not to do, am I going to fall back into old habits?” but with ten years of honesty under your belt, you don’t need to lean on the knee-jerk “never lie” reaction as much – you can work through your real thoughts about how much honesty is owed in which circumstances.

  7. Fluffy Fish*

    OP please stop beating yourself up over this. Yes it wasn’t the truth but it wasn’t born out of malice. Your manager is super out of line and I would encourage you to go to HR as this has uncovered that she doesn’t know how to handle medical issues or maintaining confidentiality.

    1. Maglev to Crazytown*

      I second this… this was a normal brain “how do I rapidly protect myself/someone else in this high tension moment?!?!”

      I normally can’t lie to save my life… except if panicked and pushed hard typically when it involves protecting someone else’s information/privacy. I have similarly made up low stakes things about my self in such situations to defuse them and protect someone who else from being the subject of an unwarranted witch hunt.

      1. Hroethvitnir*

        Yes! I am too honest for my own good as a rule, but I may have lied under these circumstances, and I’d feel zero guilt for lying because Boss is horrendous.

        (I’d certainly have Feelings about the “miscarriages are a big deal for a lot of people”, but only anger for that woman.)

    2. Rex Libris*

      This. You only lied because you were pushed to the point where you panicked to get your manager to back off. The manager needs to be on a PIP, or fired if this isn’t an isolated incident. Forcing people to disclose health conditions opens a company up to a world of liability.

    3. Kara*

      I, too, have lied about a health issue in order to get someone who was being incredibly pushy to back off. I don’t consider it a moral failing at all. If someone is that rude and can’t be made to stop any other way, then they don’t deserve the truth.

      1. Nicosloanica*

        I consider my bad habit of panic-lying as a lessor sin; yes, it would be wonderful if I was 100% truthful all the time, and that would indeed be my preference/something to aspire to, but lies are generally one of the few recourses of the powerless and someone else is likely sinning harder if it happened.

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          There’s a guilt factor with lies – after all we’re all pretty much raised lies=bad.

          But as with most things in life it’s rarely that cut and dry. Lies can be bad. They can also be neutral and good.

          1. Hroethvitnir*

            Yes. I read something I’m going to paraphrase poorly here: if Nazis ask you if you are harbouring a Jew and you say no, you’re not lying. You’re answering the actual question, which is “can we kill the person you’re protecting”.

            Obviously more extreme, and I think it applies in the sense that lying-as-moral-failing is not applicable to defending yourself against someone who has backed you into a corner.

            It’s a lie as an untruth, but it’s not remotely a lie as in a harm done to yourself or others.

      2. anon for this*

        I once pretended to be hard-of-hearing to get out of a very awkward situation. I, a woman, was waiting for a bus in the middle of nowhere and ignoring a male stranger I thought was trying to flirt/harass from a distance; he could see me but he was seated on a bench against a wall. The bus kept not showing up, and 25 minutes later I realized the guy was actually calling for help and it was hard to make out – I think he was having a seizure. I got him help and pretended I hadn’t heard him because I supposedly needed new hearing aids. I’ve been feeling terrible about this ever since because I’m entirely hearing and was just determinedly ignoring someone I thought was harassing me, especially as the bus was due. Never saw him again, but I’m still kind of mortified. The white lie feels so very icky to me and I hate that I appropriated a marginalized identity I don’t have in order to solve this, ugh. I guess the takeaway message is that there’s sometimes no good solution in really unusual circumstances? And OP, your situation more than qualifies as that!

        1. Fluffy Fish*

          Please absolve yourself of this guilt. Personal safety ALWAYS comes first in any situation. That also includes (not) telling people you were acting out of self-defense because frankly that also doesn’t go over well.

          In addition to the lies=bad guilt comes the woman are socialized to be available friendly and accommodating – so when you realized there was no danger and you lied, that inbuilt guilt is coming out too.

  8. RVA Cat*

    OP, you did nothing wrong. Your boss is an ass.

    Speaking of body parts we’re all born with, the standard answer to pushy bosses asking for anything medical should be “diarrhea.” Everyone’s had it, knows it’s uncontrollable, and NO ONE wants to be around it.

    1. Minimal Pear*

      Yep, my standard lie in all situations (not just work) is that I had food poisoning. Occasionally I follow up with “I guess I’m just really sensitive to it!” to explain why it happens so often. No one wants more details.
      (I’m chronically ill, so sometimes I need to lie about why I’m sick to obfuscate my chronic stuff.)

  9. Jane Lane*

    Look, I have a stillborn daughter and have miscarried two pregnancies at 10 weeks and have had many early miscarriages. I generally have a really hard time with things like this. But your manager put you in a horrible position here. I think you should complain about your manager to HR – both for pressuring you to reveal private health information and for giving that information to your colleagues. Please don’t feel too bad about this. I’m sorry your manager treated you so poorly.

    1. Nack*

      Chiming in as someone else who has had multiple miscarriages. If I was your coworker and heard about this, I would feel empathy for you. If I then heard the rest of the story and found out it wasn’t true, I would still feel empathy for you, for being cornered in such a difficult situation! I could see myself also blurting out something – anything – to get out of an uncomfortable situation. Personally (I cannot speak for all people who’ve experienced pregnancy loss), I don’t feel this as any sort of jab at me, or that it takes away from my experience. I hope you don’t let guilt about the lie weigh you down.

    2. IHaveKittens*

      I’ve only had one miscarriage, but I also want to let OP know that I would have ZERO problem with this if someone I knew went through this. Your manager sucks moose and she had NO right to pressure you so much. And the fact that she is going around telling other people about it is just so wrong, in so many ways. Health information is protected by privacy laws. She has no right to tell anyone anything.

      1. Grandma Mazur*

        I have not seen or heard the expression sucks moose before. I think I will need to use this in future.

    3. Anonymous for this*

      Sorry for your losses. I have also had multiple miscarriages and have zero problems with this. (Also had the occasional bladder accident.) No one ever pressed me about disappearing relative to either, even when I had to leave work early on a Friday and have my husband drive a pretty long distance to pick me up because I wasn’t good to drive.

    4. Not Australian*

      Yup, I’ve also had multiple early losses and FWIW I’m 100% behind the OP too. Forcing an individual to disclose medical information they’d rather keep private is unconscionable, and the manager fully deserves whatever repercussions nay follow. OP, on the other hand, should cut herself some slack.

    5. Another multiple early losses*

      I absolutely would not feel anything but empathy for you OP if you were my coworker. The boss put you in a bind and you took the only way out you saw.
      Also consider this, if your boss learned from this you may have saved someone experiencing a real miscarriage from having to divulge this to the boss

    6. Apples and Oranges*

      Another person here with multiple miscarriages. I take zero issues with OP’s lie given the circumstances. And I also don’t see how anyone could ever possibly find out that it wasn’t true unless she chooses to disclose that.

    7. PhD survivor*

      I also had a miscarriage recently and I’m not offended by your reaction, OP. Please don’t feel guilty, you were put into a bad situation. I’m horrified however by your awful boss. It would be traumatic for someone who really had a miscarriage to be treated this way and pressured to disclose to their employer. I strongly didn’t want to disclose my miscarriage to anyone at work and I didn’t have to because my boss is a normal person who respects our privacy. All I had to say was that I needed time off for medical reasons. Your boss is violating basic privacy boundaries.

    8. Texan In Exile*

      I have had a miscarriage and I am Team You. Your manager is a jerk and I agree with the other commenters who say that perhaps this might teach your boss to keep from prying into things that are none of her damn business.

  10. londonedit*

    Oh my goodness, OP, your manager is absolutely the one who caused this whole mess. Not you. I can totally understand why, under pressure from an angry boss who demanded you reveal sensitive information, your brain defaulted to ‘just say something that’ll shut her up and make this stop’. Of course, if you believe that’s also a symptom of something deeper, please do explore it more in therapy etc. But fundamentally, you were backed into a corner and forced into either saying you wet yourself (and how would that have gone down with an unreasonable and gossipy boss??) or lying about it being something more serious. And that was your boss’s fault. She should have taken ‘I’m sorry, I had a small health emergency, I’m fine now’ and left it there.

    She also should not, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, told any of your colleagues about any of it. Not even if you’d admitted to having wet yourself. But she especially shouldn’t have told your colleague that you’d miscarried. That’s so far beyond acceptable behaviour from anyone, let alone a manager, that it’s quite hard to comprehend.

    I suggest trying to have a quiet word with her and saying ‘I appreciate you looking out for me, but I really don’t need any special treatment, and I’d rather we put it behind us and moved on’. That way you don’t have to get into whether it was a lie or not – you’re simply saying you don’t want her to treat you differently and you want things to go back to normal. Which you’re perfectly entitled to do no matter what the original issue was.

  11. Project Manager*

    Hi, I’m someone who has had multiple miscarriages, and I just want to say that I don’t think you did anything wrong. Sure, it’s not the sort of thing you should lie about, but Alison is 110% on point with her feedback that your manager should not only have let it go, but have actually been making sure you were ok rather than berating you. I am a huge fan of therapy, so maybe a follow up session or two isn’t the worst idea, but don’t be ashamed, you were put in a bad situation to begin with.

    1. KenDoll*

      I also have had a couple of miscarriages and I appreciate the fact that OP feels remorse for using that as her lie. I don’t quite understand why it was her gut instinct instead of “period”, etc. However, I agree that she doesn’t need to spiral in shame over it.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        In my experience, having a period is not a “good enough” excuse for missing an important meeting. There is an expectation that we pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and work through it. Confronted with a boundary-pushing manager, I’m not surprised the OP didn’t use menstruation as an excuse.

      3. Observer*

        I don’t quite understand why it was her gut instinct instead of “period”, etc.

        In all likelihood because she was afraid of her boss’ reaction. I had *terrible* periods are a girl. And the number of people who shamed me for the sometimes unfortunate results was waay too much. Including people who REALLY should have known better. And also because does the LW really want the whole office to hear about her period problems?

        If you want some examples of what I’m talking about, find the letter about the teen who needed to go to the bathroom because she got her period unexpectedly and her shift lead tried to discipline her for actually *saying* that she was on her period. There was more than one person who was absolutely appalled and / or indignant that this irresponsible hussy had that audacity to mention this to her male lead, and to be SO unprepared and not already wearing the appropriate pads because *of course* all women know *exactly* when their periods are going to come, to the very hour, and can always afford to use (expensive) period products prophylacticly until they actually do get their periods. Or the letter from the woman who left her pads on her shelf because the office has no drawers and her boss tried to write her up for being “gross” and “disrespectful” and again, more than one person agreed that it was disrespectful for her to allow her pads to be visible even though there was no other place to keep them.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          “my cousin got in trouble after mentioning her period to her manager” from November 1, 2016

          “my boss freaked out when he saw my menstrual products and called me unprofessional” from April 20, 2016

          for anyone who hasn’t read them before (or wants to read them again)

        3. KenDoll*

          OK, everyone jumped on me for using “period” when I said “etc.” I was only trying to state that some of us actually might be slightly hurt that our traumatic experiences were used as an excuse by someone else. I would not have been OK returning to work immediately following my miscarriage. I understand the manager was in the wrong here, but I was just trying to voice my appreciation for the OP’s recognition that using a miscarriage was out-of-bounds since everyone else seems OK to brush it off.

      4. ubotie*

        This boss sounds like the type who wouldn’t have accepted that as an excuse especially if it wasn’t a “bad enough” period (and if it was, the boss might have dug her heels in even more). Some real, “pfft, lots of get periods around here, LW, even really bad ones! Just get a pad, tie a sweater around your waist, and deal with it!!” energy from that boss, you know?

        That the LW wasn’t already pregnant, isn’t trying to like, use this as a way to get more PTO or sympathy or whatever, recognizes it wasn’t their best moment, etc are all in their favor. But they were back in a corner by the boss. It’s called “eff around and find out,” boss, how have you not heard of this timeless game?

        And then the boss went and started telling people, “Hey, LW had a miscarriage.” Umm, not okay???? Just because the miscarriage didn’t happen doesn’t make the boss’ blabbermouth okay.

        I think the LW should definitely bring all of this up with their therapist, probably also let their doctor know about the incontinence for good measure (although be prepared for the doctor to brush it off even if they’re female–yaaaay), and uhh maybe also start putting a word out to their network about some job leads (without going into ALL the details). Because nothing about this work environment sounds…great, at least not while that boss is around :-/

  12. Alicent*

    I don’t blame you one bit for lying in this situation. I worked for a guy whose management style was coercive control (what abusers do to keep you in line and keep you from leaving). He called me into a conference room to berate me AGAIN about a very misleading client complaint and refused to hear my side (he asked, but his eyes glazed over and you could tell he did not care that the client was lying through her teeth). So I thought of the saddest thing I could and just burst out crying. I knew he couldn’t handle women’s tears and turned the manipulation right back on him.

    It worked like magic. He immediately stammered an apology and ended the meeting. It’s not something I would recommend doing on a regular basis, but I was trying to keep my head above water by frantically treading until I found a new job. It took a year of looking, but I’ve been there over 5 years and it’s night and day.

    2. allathian*

      You did well in a horrible situation, and I’m glad you’re no longer working for that horrible manager.

      I cried a lot and very easily as a kid. At home I didn’t get in trouble for it, but I definitely used crying as a manipulative tactic when we lived in the UK for a year when I was 12-13. I heard more than one parent tell their kid who started school (at 5 years old) that big kids, especially boys, mustn’t cry. So when I got in uncomfortable situations at school, I always burst out crying. That caused everyone around me, adults and kids alike, to bend over backwards to get me to stop. Eventually I adjusted to the culture, and when my English was good enough for me to communicate effortlessly with adults and children alike, I no longer needed to resort to crying.

      When we returned to Finland, I only cried once at school. All the kids laughed at me and the one adult present just waited it out in silence, and I learned that crying wasn’t an effective way to get what I wanted here.

  13. Just Here for the Llama Grooming*

    OP, your manager really, really, really messed up here. It’s understandable that you feel awful, but holy schnickes if there were ever a situation in which a hasty lie is not your fault, this is it!

    I can imagine going to HR could be good, or maybe not so much — an awful lot depends on how good the company’s folks are. You are much better equipped than any of us to judge that.

    In any case, I hope you can be very, very kind to yourself in this rotten set of circumstances. And fie on your manager!

  14. Pomegranates*

    I wish you the best in sorting this situation out the best that you can. In my opinion therapy is never a bad idea, but I would take this instance as an indicator of how out of control you felt and not as a moral indictment.

    You were pushed until you reached the bottom of your toolbox and pulled out an old tool that you’d buried – lying – and even if the lying isn’t great, the fact that you felt like you needed to use it is, in my opinion, the bigger issue, and also entirely your boss’s fault.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      Totally agree. OP. work with the therapist to disentangle what part of that situation was ‘I lie’ and what part was ‘I was forced into disclosures by management’ because both can be true, but one was the real issue here.

    2. Clymene*

      This way of thinking about it – that OP got all the way to the bottom of her toolbox – is such a helpful metaphor. I will be stashing that gem in my brain for future use.

  15. A Book about Metals*

    I wouldn’t beat yourself up at all about this. I’ve certainly used a dead aunt or uncle or two to get out of work situations over the years

  16. Somehow I Manage*

    I once had a staff member literally run out of the building without telling anyone. She called me on her way to the doctor. She was pregnant, but hadn’t announced it to anyone yet, and had something going on that caused some alarm. She explained that she was panicked and needed to see her doctor, and apologized for disappearing and causing any sort of concern. Having been the recipient of that call, I’m even more sensitive to someone who panics and does or says something under body-related pressure. I didn’t pry. Had she told me she wasn’t feeling well and needed to run to her doctor, that would have been totally fine too. And you know what I did with the information she shared with me? I shut the hell up. I checked in with her when she got back to make sure she was alright, asked if she needed anything, and then offered my congratulations when she told me everything was OK. I sure as hell didn’t tell others. And we didn’t speak of the emergency again.

  17. Stuart Foote*

    I rarely disagree with Alison, but I think maybe I do in this case. In an ideal world employees would be trustworthy enough that saying they had a health emergency would be the end of it, but in the real world people do exaggerate or even outright lie (which is actually what happened in this case because LW did not have a health emergency). It sounds like this was an important meeting and asking for an explanation does seem reasonable. Lying about what happened is a really bad stress response and far, far outside of what is normal.

    I’m not sure that LW “harmed” people who miscarried, but while I’ve (thankfully) never had to experience that I know miscarriages can be absolutely devastating to those who have them, and I’d imagine that many of those people might not feel good about what OP did. Claiming a traumatic experience one didn’t actually have does seem like an insult to those who actually have to experience it. I would not go to HR if I was LW, because I’d be shocked if she came out looking good.

    That being said, the manager needs to learn not to share stuff like this for obvious reasons.

    1. londonedit*

      Asking for an explanation is fine. But the manager should have taken ‘I’m sorry, I was dealing with a minor health emergency. I’m fine now, I won’t miss the meeting in future’ and left it there. For an otherwise healthy adult, wetting oneself at work *is* a minor health issue and it *is* something of an emergency – what was the OP meant to do, sit around in wet clothes all afternoon? The OP told the boss they had to deal with something and that they might be a while, so it wasn’t as if they just ran off with no notice, and then the boss still pushed and pushed and pushed until the OP felt backed into a corner to such an extent that her brain came out with a lie.

      I also don’t think ‘some people aren’t trustworthy and will lie to get out of meetings, so we should force everyone to reveal potentially embarrassing things’ is the way to go.

    2. Witch*

      > which is actually what happened in this case because LW did not have a health emergency

      Not to get crass but what is wetting yourself if not a health emergency? Sincerely? She’s embarrassed, she knows it’s not normal. it’s a body issue. She lied about the miscarriage but she did have a health emergency.

      Asking a follow up of, “do you need to take PTO and leave?” or an “are you alright?” is probably best. but reasonable bosses don’t get to corner their staff and demand specifics to answers already given.

      1. Seashell*

        Since having children, I often pee myself if I sneeze while having a full bladder. I do my best to avoid having a full bladder, but it still happens sometimes. Usually, it will only be a spot in my underwear, but it has gone through my pants sometimes. It’s not a health emergency in my case, but it’s on par with bleeding through your pants due to your period in that you don’t want to go through the day like that.

        1. amoeba*

          I mean, even in that case… it’s related to bodily functions, I’d say it’s fine to call it a “health emergency”. (Although I probably would phrase it differently in order to not alarm my boss, because I wouldn’t want him to worry! But then he’s a reasonable person, so that doesn’t apply here, I guess…(

          1. Seashell*

            I would probably say, “bathroom emergency that required a change of clothes.” Vague enough that it could be different things, but nothing scary.

                1. Seashell*

                  I don’t think “health emergency” would have occurred to me in that situation and, if it did, I wouldn’t want my boss to think something is medically wrong with me when it’s not. Everyone has bodily functions that involve the bathroom.

              2. Excelsior*

                Yes. Ideal would be something boring enough that few will be tempted to repeat it, and vague enough to not be a problem if they do. I feel like “bathroom emergency” could invite speculation.

            2. amoeba*

              I honestly also don’t find that that vague, one of two different (equally TMI/private) options comes to mind pretty automatically!

              1. Seashell*

                I’m a woman, so I have three. I don’t know a woman who hasn’t had a period issue occur at an awkward time, so I imagine any female would be sympathetic.

            3. Covert Copier Whisperer*

              Yeah that’s not that vague. I’d honestly prefer someone just tell me “urgent health issue,” not worry about how finely I parse the meaning of “health.”

    3. Clown Eradicator*

      Wetting yourself can be a health emergency or indication of one. The boss was way out of line.

    4. Busy Middle Manager*

      Allison has a point on the “sharing medical information” since the boss doesn’t know it’s not true.

      However, I am confused by the coddling in the other comments. I think they see the word “miscarriage” so are subconsciously assuming the OP was in fact in a horrid emergency, which isn’t realty true.

      I think that tone downplays the agita and tension on a team that happens when someone no shows and then doesn’t text/email or even just cancels things last minutes. This is one of the things I do not miss about managing. I had an employee going through a “rough patch” and was always stressed he wasn’t going to come, or would show up unprepared. There were a few times I rallied all VPs to show up to something and then said employee would show up late, unprepared, and our whole team would look bad. Then six months later at review/raise time, upper management suddenly has a flashback to then and we need to rehash it all.

      1. Not on board*

        I don’t think anyone is “coddling”. The OP had the issue, let their manager know they would be late getting back and would miss the meeting which was a standing meeting.
        If an employee is always missing meetings and making excuses, you address the pattern, not dive into their private medical information.
        Also, not sure what you wanted OP to do here. Other choices:
        1. continue in soiled clothing the rest of the day
        2. tell their boss they wet themselves so their boss can gossip about them to other employees
        To me the lie worked – got the boss off their back, and hopefully shamed them into not prying into people’s private medical info in the future

      2. Jennifer Strange*

        I had let my manager know when it first started that I had had an emergency and would be a while getting back.

        The LW clearly didn’t no-show without a text or email, so not sure what you’re talking about here.

        1. amoeba*

          This, and also, I don’t get why people assume it was a super special, important meeting? For most regular meetings, the reaction to somebody not showing up is “huh, OK, guess they missed this” in my org. Not some kind of dramatic emergency.

      4. Bitte Meddler*

        What??

        OP told her boss she had an emergency, needed to leave the office, and that it would probably take awhile. [This is the opposite of not texting/emailing!]

        This is the only time OP has missed this standing meeting (which makes it sound like it happens on a regular cadence). [This is a one-time thing!]

        Wetting yourself at work — soaking your pants in urine, FFS — *is* a medical issue.

        All of this is completely different than whatever you experienced with that one employee in that one job in the past who was going through rough patch. That one employee is not all employees.

      5. Bitte Meddler*

        Busy Middle Manager — Based on your comments in this thread, I think it is a very good thing that you are no longer managing people.

    5. Katrine Fonsmark*

      So….you wouldn’t call peeing on yourself and having your clothes be wet and smelly a health emergency? What would you have done in this case?

      1. Stuart Foote*

        It’s objectively not a health emergency! It’s a horribly embarrassing situation but this is not what people mean when they talk about a health emergency.

        Thankfully I haven’t been in this situation, but likely I would have lied and said I threw up and that I had food poisoning. Honestly just saying “bathroom emergency” and not going into detail probably would have worked too.

        It depends on the job, but there are a lot of jobs where not showing up for a meeting really isn’t acceptable and requires a real explanation. You can’t just say “health emergency” or “family issue”. People are saying they don’t think the meeting was important but it clearly was given how upset the manager was and there are plenty of important standing meetings.

        I don’t want to pile on OP…she is aware she made a mistake, clearly what she said didn’t work out, and she’s working on getting herself to a better place. I wish her the best. But I suspect this would have gone badly in more workplaces than not and at the least using a life-altering event like a miscarriage as a white lie is a horrible idea.

        1. Dahlia*

          “It’s objectively not a health emergency!”

          Disagree! If that happened to me, it would be because something is wrong. That’s not something that just happens.

          What is the difference between “bathroom emergency” and “health emergency”????

        2. Not on board*

          Somebody being upset automatically means it was important? This boss has already shown that they aren’t the best manager and you think their being upset automatically means that the meeting was a big deal?
          People get upset/angry about things that aren’t important all the time. I think you are ascribing too much importance to the meeting that is pure speculation/fan fiction and knowing this boss to be a gossip, I wouldn’t tell them about an embarrassing incident. So a minor health emergency is more than adequate – and if the LW was skipping meetings a lot, then you address the pattern, not grill them about private medical info.

        3. Jennifer Strange*

          It’s objectively not a health emergency!

          You have no idea why it happened, so pretty bold of you to make that claim.

          but there are a lot of jobs where not showing up for a meeting really isn’t acceptable and requires a real explanation. You can’t just say “health emergency” or “family issue”.

          Any business that requires specific details of an emergency that require missing a single meeting (not even a full day of work!) is not a well-run business.

          People are saying they don’t think the meeting was important but it clearly was given how upset the manager was

          The manager also kept pushing the LW beyond what was necessary. I take their actions with a grain of salt.

        4. uti*

          how is this not a health emergency…?
          if you remain in urine soaked clothing you are likely to develop skin irritation and a UTI…it must be taken care of right away and it is the priority.

          1. Bitte Meddler*

            Never mind the biohazard aspect of sitting on furniture — like, say, a chair in the meeting room — and getting urine on it and perhaps other surfaces.

            1. N C Kiddle*

              I did once pee myself at work when it wasn’t practical to go home and change so I tried to tough it out. I was dressed for the warehouse, so the dampness wasn’t outwardly visible, but when everyone else was sitting on the shop floor chairs I didn’t dare in case I contaminated them, so I just stood awkwardly off to one side. Really would not recommend

        5. CommanderBanana*

          So…you would have lied? But what about all those people who really have had food poisoning?

        6. celestialisms*

          OP did not even say she had a “health emergency”; she said at first that she had an emergency– no “health” involved– and later that she had a health “issue.” Those are entirely accurate ways of phrasing it. So I’d suggest not critiquing her on something she didn’t say.

          “Thankfully I haven’t been in this situation, but likely I would have lied” And… that’s the same thing OP did.

          “but it clearly was given how upset the manager was”– there are so many stories on this site of managers having inappropriately oversized reactions to small things that this is not an obvious conclusion that can be drawn.

    6. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      This is one of 2 comments out of 50 that shares this perspective- I’m curious what you personally would have done differently in the moment?

      1. Ellis Bell*

        He said he would have lied about having food poisoning, so in other words basically he he also would have made up a completely different health emergency to protect the privacy of the true health emergency (I honestly don’t really get it either).

    7. Rex Libris*

      The explanation is “I had a health emergency.” The specifics weren’t any of the manager’s business and they ethically and legally shouldn’t have pushed for details.

      Also, unless you consider inadvertently wetting oneself a normal daily occurrence, I’m not sure what else to call it other than a health emergency. Obviously something caused it, whether it was stress, some underlying condition that the OP chose not to disclose in their letter, or whatever, and it legitimately prevented attending the meeting. Panicking and misrepresenting what sort of emergency it was out of embarrassment is the result of the boss being so out of line that the employee had no idea how to handle it.

      Employees aren’t children, and their boss isn’t their parent. It isn’t their job to drill into the employee’s private life in case they might be lying about something. If an employee has a proven pattern of lying to get out of meetings, then you address that behavior, but you still don’t interrogate them about their medical issues.

    8. Devious Planner*

      Sure, if we are Monday Morning Quarterbacking here, we can maybe say a different lie (throwing up, feeling faint, etc) might have been less guilt-inducing. But we’ve all been in high-pressure situations before where we didn’t do exactly the perfect thing, right?

      Overall, I disagree with your answer for the following reasons:
      1) the meeting was described as a “standing meeting” with her boss. I understand that to mean a regularly scheduled, non-urgent meeting. There’s no reason to assume it was particularly important.
      2) the boss pushed for an answer. I would agree that the lying is a problem if OP had proactively volunteered a miscarriage instead of just saying “health emergency.” But the option to be discreet was taken away from her when the boss pushed (and see reason #1 for why the pushing wasn’t needed).
      3) Losing control of your bladder IS a health emergency. I am mostly healthy and have not lost control of my bladder as long as I can remember… if that happened I would be making an appointment with a doctor ASAP.

      I would also choose not to go to HR, but mostly because I would just want this lie to go away and definitely wouldn’t want to rehash it all with HR.

      1. amoeba*

        I mean, for people with a weak pelvic floor (unfortunately, a lot of people who have given birth at some point) it might be much more common – but that’s still a health issue!

    9. Mid*

      1. It doesn’t sound like it was an important meeting, just a standing meeting (meaning a recurring meeting, often a weekly check-in) and it doesn’t sound like it was with clients or external partners. And even if it *was* a very important meeting, “private health issue” is more than enough information. If you have concerns about someone’s attendance, address that directly with them.
      2. It was indeed a health emergency. Bathroom issues are health issues. You can’t walk around with soiled pants all day, that needed to be urgently addressed.

    10. Not on board*

      Yeah, I majorly disagree. First off, should she go sit in a meeting in urine covered clothing? I’m going to assume some sort of medical cause of the peeing herself, so yes, it’s a medical issue, same as it would be if it was diarrhea instead of urine.
      Second, OP does not need to even talk about what the medical emergency was when she goes to HR. The only issues are:
      A. boss pushed the OP to divulge the nature of a medical emergency
      B. boss then shared the information with another employee
      Also, plenty of women have posted here about experiencing miscarriages and they don’t blame OP one bit, nor do they feel harmed by her lie.

      1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

        I’d also like to know what Stuart Foote thinks the LW should have done instead. I’ll assume he agrees that she should start with changing her clothes, rather than just attending the meeting. But when the boss starts pushing really hard for medical details, what should the LW have done instead? Does he think that telling the boss – who is known to gossip – the full truth would have no negative repercussions for the LW?

        2. basically functional*

          He thinks a different lie (food poisoning) would have been better because claiming a miscarriage insults people who have had them. Despite the fact that he has never had a miscarriage and the many commenters who have are fine with the LW’s lie in this situation. Also I guess it’s ok to insult people who have had food poisoning? Also it’s pretty unrealistic to expect the LW to think of the most perfect, non-insulting lie in a high-pressure moment.

    11. AngryOwl*

      Some people taking advantage does not mean managers get to grill people on medical issues.

      And as someone who *has* experienced a miscarriage, a random person panicking and lying about having one because of an aggressive and inappropriate boss in no way makes my experience worse or more painful.

      Honestly, acting like the OP has somehow harmed the loss population because of this is weirdly dramatic.

      1. Also me*

        My wife has experienced several miscarriages. I know there’s a huge difference in what women go through when they have one, but I can say it is devastating to be the guy in that situation too. But reading OP’s letter and knowing what she said when under duress, I didn’t feel like she was coopting the experiences my wife and I had. It weirdly almost makes me more sympathetic.

        1. Dahlia*

          In some ways, OP is being a canary in the coal mine for people who DO have miscarriages, because this is how the boss would treat them.

        2. AngryOwl*

          I’m sorry you’ve both been through that. And absolutely no need to qualify the statement, loss hits the partner like a hammer as well <3

    12. celestialisms*

      Of course it was a health emergency. Unless you’re suggesting she should have not taken off work and, what– sat there in soiled clothing?

      Asking for an explanation is fine, once. The manager should have accepted the answer that it was a health issue and moved on. Pressing it, getting angry about it(!), and forcing OP to provide private details was outside the bounds of acceptability.

      In the real world, you aren’t judging an employee on the potential actions of all other people who exist. You’re judging them based on /their/ specific actions & history. In an employee who has had no prior history of calling out for false reasons (and we have no reason to believe OP has done this before), if they tell you they had a health issue, you believe them.

    13. Jennifer Strange*

      You admit you’ve never had a miscarriage, so please do not speak on behalf of those of us who have. Yes, mine was absolutely devastating, but that doesn’t mean I would harbor any ill will against the LW, especially knowing the situation she was in!

      1. Dandylions*

        Well I have had a 2nd Tri miscarriage and agree with everything he said and felt he handled it respectfully. I didn’t have the energy to come be piled on for disagreeing that lieing about a miscarriage isn’t harmful to folks who have had miscarriages. This entire letter was triggering for me. I wasn’t expecting to see Miscarriage in the title and am very disappointed that Alison didn’t use a more vague title and have a TW for pregnancy loss as the first sentence like she has done for other triggering letters.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          I ask this sincerely: If the title alone was triggering for you why did you read the letter?

    14. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

      In addition to all the other comments pointing out issues with this: Yes, some people lie about this stuff. But in that case, it’s likely to happen relatively frequently. And it’ll probably emerge in other contexts, too. So if there’s a series of medical emergencies, it makes sense to have a conversation about how often this is happening, what the plan should be to address any difficulties that are arising as a result, whether accommodations are needed and the documentation required for that, etc.

      If it’s a one-off, the only thing you accomplish by badgering someone is generating ill will.

    15. Guacamole Bob*

      If “minor health emergency” isn’t the right professional description/euphemism here, what would you suggest? We can nitpick that maybe she could have said “minor personal emergency”, “I had to deal with a personal matter immediately” but it may well have been a health issue. Some people might have said something like “a clothing problem where I had to find other clothes to change into”, I guess.

      At a healthy workplace, people can use normal professional euphemistic language and be trusted to have used appropriate judgment about skipping a meeting. Only if it becomes a repeated occurrence should a manager start addressing it as an issue.

      Are you concerned that employees would just not attend meetings because they don’t feel like it if managers don’t insist on knowing the full details of why? That’s just not how a reasonable workplace functions.

      1. Jaydee*

        The problem is that I think there’s little the LW could have said short of either the (embarrassing) truth or the (not embarrassing) lie about the miscarriage that would have gotten the manager to back off. And maybe even the truth wouldn’t have worked.

        The boss was already not accepting a minor health emergency without prying for more detail.

        A “minor personal emergency” could be any number of things that may or may not truly take precedence over the meeting in this manager’s mind. Can’t your partner pick up your kid who just threw up at school? Can’t you tell the repair person who showed up at the wrong time that you’ll just have to reschedule? Can’t your dog walker drive around the neighborhood looking for your dog who bolted out the door; why do you have to miss this meeting to go look for your dog?

        Likewise a clothing issue that necessitated a change of clothing could range from a lunch stain on your shirt to a split pants seam to a situation like what actually happened, where bodily fluids necessitate a wardrobe change. Depending on the meeting and how bad the stain or rip is, the boss might have said to come to the meeting anyway and get a clean shirt/new pants afterwards. Hopefully the boss wouldn’t have said to come to the meeting in soiled clothes, but this boss doesn’t sound like someone you can count on to be reasonable.

        1. allathian*

          I don’t think staining your clothes by spilling coffee or food on yourself requires a change of clothing unless you’re going to have a meeting with a client or executives several levels above you in the org… People who are particularly prone to spillage often keep a change of clothes at the office just in case.

          Retail and food service jobs usually have uniforms for a reason! Ditto medical scrubs and the uniforms/protective clothing used by pretty much all people who do manual labor.

    16. Chonkalonk*

      “In the real world people do exaggerate or outright lie” – sometimes, but surely as a manager if a member of staff who is normally reliable has to duck out and tells you they’ve had a health emergency this surely isn’t the first place you go? I suspect it’s actually pretty rare for people to lie or exaggerate in the way you suggest, and you’re going to end up massively invading people’s privacy and losing the trust of your staff if as a manager you behave like it’s common.

      If I saw a pattern of ducking out at short notice, repeated health emergencies, and similar I would still come at it from a perspective of ‘are you OK and can we do anything to help make sure you can be OK at work’. If they didn’t engage I still wouldn’t be pressing for personal information, I’d be saying ‘we need something different from you, here’s the expectation’. Only if I had direct evidence that someone had told me a lie and I had integrity concerns would I be saying ‘I have these conflicting bits of information, can you help me reconcile them.’ I can’t imagine managing from a position of assuming that my staff are lying.

      1. Also me*

        Yeah, how do you get anything done if you can’t trust that people are telling you the truth more often than not.

        I’m not sure how the LW initially exaggerated either. Minor health emergency seems perfectly reasonable. I don’t think the majority of people need more information than that, and those who feel entitled to it will also complain about “too much detail” if someone says they had diarrhea or a severe bloody nose that resulted in them staining their shirt.

    17. Spencer Hastings*

      “Lying about what happened is a really bad stress response and far, far outside of what is normal.”

      I’m curious what you’re basing this assessment on.

      1. Rex Libris*

        Seriously. In my experience, lying is a pretty normal stress response, particularly when you’re cornered by someone in authority who won’t back off. Eventually, your goal becomes just getting out of the interaction rather than accurately explaining yourself.

    18. Sled dog mama*

      So what you would have the OP sit around in urine soaked clothing?
      That would be uncomfortable and unfortunate for the office furniture and because urine is basic it can cause skin problems if in prolonged contact. Plus take it from someone who’s brother took great delight in attempting to pee on me from various places it can itch like crazy.

    19. I Work in Disability Accommodations*

      I’m concerned that you think a person having incontinence is not a health emergency. It is a situation that needs to be addressed urgently (the definition of emergency), and can be a signal of many significant health issues.

    20. JustKnope*

      Some people lying to get out of work obligations does NOT mean managers are entitled to private health information or grilling their employees. If a manager sees a pattern of last minute flakiness or other issues they can talk to the employee about the pattern and look for solutions together. If the employee isn’t solution-oriented that’s a red flag to look closer. But that’s the extent of it. Employees are entitled to privacy, full stop.

    21. Observer*

      but in the real world people do exaggerate or even outright lie (which is actually what happened in this case because LW did not have a health emergency).

      Thanks for perfectly explaining why the LW felt like she had to lie. Do you not realize that what happened to her *was* in fact an emergency? And that she really could *not* have “scheduled” this? What was she supposed to do? Come to the meeting soiled?

      So either the LW has a medical issue that caused her to have this problem, or she has an impossible work situation where she can’t even get to the bathroom on a reasonable basis.

      asking for an explanation does seem reasonable

      Except that the manager went far past that. The LW did have a genuine emergency, but the manager wanted the exact details. What would have happened if the LW had told here the truth? The reality is that the LW did not have another choice, but I’m betting that the manger would have reacted like and demanded to know why the LW didn’t come to the meeting wet with urine or why she wet herself, ignoring that healthy people don’t wet themselves on purpose, which means that this was not something the LW planned on or could have easily prevented.

      and I’d imagine that many of those people might not feel good about what OP did

      Yeah, well maybe you should look at what people who have had miscarriages are saying. I’m someone who’s had them, too. And, no, people who have had miscarriages are not likely to care.

      I would not go to HR if I was LW, because I’d be shocked if she came out looking good.

      Why? The issue here has nothing to to with whether the LW had a miscarriage or not. It has to do with the manager pressing when they should not have. And the gossiping – and that gossip is a pattern she engages in.

      1. N C Kiddle*

        Although not going to HR because of the risk it might be staffed by people who think like Stuart would be absolutely reasonable, unfortunately

    22. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

      Okay, try to look at it this way:

      A woman is in a very stressful situation and being harassed by someone with power over her. We’re conditioned to try and get out of dangerous situations with the minimal risk possible. This is why women will say to men trying to chat them up ‘I have a husband’ or ‘I’ve got somewhere else to be’ or making up something else to get the conversation to stop.

      It’s not malicious, it’s an often very essential safety response. The whole ‘just tell the truth and you have nothing to fear’ thing comes from a position of privilege.

      1. Carit*

        Your last sentence perfectly encapsulates what I’ve been trying to process in this thread. Thank you!

        LW clearly has a personal history from which they take this “decision” to lie as a canary. That is a good thing, for them to take this and related concerns back into therapy. Their therapist can help them work through it the other mental health issues they alluded to.

        But I don’t think this was really a “decision” to lie — it was a panicked survival response, driven by adrenaline and active threat. I once had an excellent therapist say to me, “that is, in fact, an existential threat for you” about something similar.

        LW, you should give yourself as much grace here as you can! And listen to all of the people who have commented from their history of miscarriages and that they don’t fault you or feel harmed by your lie.

        Also, I have to say that the commentariat here is AMAZING. The openness around very difficult situations and the support in this thread (ignoring the couple of outliers) is truly lovely. Y’all are fab!

      3. basically functional*

        Yeah, I was amused that he claimed he rarely disagrees with Alison. I rarely notice or remember commenter’s usernames, but his posts stand out to me because he often seems to be defending misogyny somehow. I don’t think he and Alison are on the same wavelength, really ever.

    24. edda ed*

      You rarely disagree with Alison? I have observed differently. I find you usually disagree with Alison’s position, drop something shit-stirring in the comments section, then when other commenters push back, you allege to be open to education on the matter, then when others graciously spoon-feed you the education, you straight up refuse to believe both hard statistical facts and personal lived experience.

    26. CommanderBanana*

      I don’t think the LW needs to worry about what random people who will never know what she said, and on whose lives what LW said has zero impact, will think.

      I do think that if the LW’s manager gets in trouble for both 1. berating her employee and 2. sharing sensitive personal medical information, that is a positive outcome.

    27. RagingADHD*

      The LW didn’t even initially say it was a health emergency. (Though I think it’s perfectly reasonable to categorize an adult wetting themselves in the middle of a workday as a health issue, since that’s hardly consistent with everything working as it should.)

      They said it was “an emergency.” And having to change your clothes because they are stained with body fluids definitely qualifies as a work emergency, as that term is normally used.

      I agree that lying about the miscarriage is an unhealthy stress response, and LW already knows that. But at the same time, “I missed the meeting because I peed my pants” is actually a legitimate reason to miss it! It’s just not something you should have to tell your boss.

    28. Hyaline*

      I mean, I’m not sure the meeting actually was important, but even if it was, the LW said they were having “an emergency” (she never even claimed a *health* emergency–when pressed, she said it was a “health issue”) and that really should have been enough to excuse someone from the meeting without further inquiry, unless LW has a pattern of flaking out on meetings. I think the LW knows that landing on “miscarriage” was not the right answer here, so there’s no real point reinforcing that–yes, she should have firmly reiterated “I was having a personal emergency” and if she had to lie (because this manager would not let it go!), go with one with fewer stakes that would make sense for her situation (food poisoning, felt faint/lightheaded, family issue requiring immediate phone call, etc). But she slipped and went with miscarriage and ooops, that backfired a little. The manager is still far more at fault here for pressing unnecessarily (unless there’s something really left out of this letter) and for spreading private information shared in confidence. Those are potentially systemic management issues–but honestly, I wouldn’t go to HR, either, because this could go poorly for LW and I imagine she just wants to put it in the rearview at this point.

    29. Hroethvitnir*

      Beyond anything else already addressed in your responses, the idea that some people lie = it’s OK for managers to *angrily* grill employees about health problems is ridiculous.

      Consider: fostering an environment in which staff trust you, and accept the cost of people feeling safe to be honest and taking less sick days because they hate their job less might be, occasionally, someone lying. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    30. Ellis Bell*

      Of course there will always be people who exaggerate and lie, but if you barge into the conversation to interrogate good but discreet explanations with this as your default assumption, it’s going to make you look like you don’t know how to manage good employees, or that you don’t have any discernment or basic diplomacy. The other thing it’s going to do? It’s going to make people hide their embarrassments, feel like they can’t disclose, won’t be believed if they do and you’re going to drive people into telling you lies that they shouldn’t even feel guilty about because you drove them to it. You yourself have said you would lie on these circumstances. So is it something that an untrained, clumsy manager might do if they have ever been lied to by a different employee? Yes, the untrained do all sorts of dumb things. Should they? No.

    31. Sharon*

      But asking for details doesn’t accomplish anything. The manager still won’t know whether the employee is telling the truth or not. And whether it was a migraine or a twisted ankle or food poisoning or a panic attack doesn’t change the work impact of the situation. She missed a meeting. She came back to work after a short break to deal with the situation. All the manager needs to know is whether the situation was probably a one-time thing vs. the employee needing accommodations in the future.

  18. K in Boston*

    +1 to what everyone is saying that A) your manager is the one making a mess of things, not you, and B) certainly if you want to go back and can, therapy can be a great thing — but I don’t think you should feel like the goal is to solve “why did I say this to my manager,” given that it’s completely reasonable how it came to be under the circumstances. To pressure you to give up private health information after you gave a perfectly acceptable response, and then to share it, is really gross and says everything about her and nothing about you.

  19. Aggretsuko*

    I wouldn’t want to tell my boss I randomly wet myself either.

    The only way I can see this being a problem is if you were pregnant and still pregnant and told her you had a miscarriage. But if you weren’t, then no harm done and maybe Ms. Nosypants learned a lesson here.

  20. Emma in the UK*

    While this lie obviously isn’t an ideal response, it’s very easy to see how you ended up doing so under the circumstances while being pressured, and it’s not a huge stretch to picture someone who isn’t otherwise prone to lying behaving similar in a similar situation.

    The way we (humans) behave, react, and respond to different situations is always in context, not in a vacuum, and it’s not at all uncommon for people to do something reflexively, in the moment, or while under stress or panic, that on reflection they know or realise was the wrong (or not the best) decision.

    I hope this situation dies down for you soon and doesn’t become further awkward in any way

  21. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

    My first thought when reading this post was that the OP was pregnant and lied about having a miscarriage. Upon rereading the post, I concluded that the OP was never pregnant.

    I’m worried about the manager having confided to OP’s friend that OP had a miscarriage, because I’m worried that the friend might mention this to OP’s partner/spouse, assuming that OP has a partner/spouse. Because what would the partner/spouse say? If OP’s company has parties to which the employees can bring a plus-one, OP had better not bring her partner/spouse (if he exists), because the manager could mention the miscarriage, and what would OP say? And it’s possible that the manager or even OP’s friend mentioned the miscarriage to other employees, and one of them will tell OP’s partner/spouse how sorry they are.

    I agree that OP was backed into a corner, but I don’t know she can get out of this if someone opens a big mouth.

    1. Witch*

      > I’m worried that the friend might mention this to OP’s partner/spouse, assuming that OP has a partner/spouse. Because what would the partner/spouse say? If OP’s company has parties to which the employees can bring a plus-one, OP had better not bring her partner/spouse (if he exists), because the manager could mention the miscarriage, and what would OP say?

      Stop writing fanfiction. You don’t even know if this person is in a relationship.

    2. Insert Clever Name Here*

      If OP has a partner or spouse, this is easily solved by “remember that day I peed at work? My boss kept pushing me for what emergency I had and I dumbly told her I miscarried.”

      1. amoeba*

        Yeah, why would we assume they’d keep the whole thing secret from their (hypotherical) partner? That’s certainly something I’d share with mine…

      2. Observer*

        this is easily solved by “remember that day I peed at work?

        Exactly. I honestly can’t imagine why anyone would jump to anything else.

        Especially since the LW *knows* that “someone” (ie her boss) has a big mouth that she has already opened far too wide.

    3. gyrfalcon17*

      OP tells her partner/spouse that this happened, and if anyone from work mentions the miscarriage to them, to simply say, “yes it was very sad and we don’t like to talk about it. what do you think is in these scrumptious hors d’oeuvres?”

    4. Covert Copier Whisperer*

      That is… a lot of hypotheticals!

      While I really don’t think it’s a likely risk, it’s an example of why the boss should never have said ANYTHING about a private medical matter to anyone else.

      And if all those ifs were to come true, which would mean everyone in the communication chain was a indiscreet as the manager… then IF OP has a partner, they’d understand when OP tells them (and only them) what actually happened.

    5. Dahlia*

      ” If OP’s company has parties to which the employees can bring a plus-one, OP had better not bring her partner/spouse (if he exists), because the manager could mention the miscarriage, and what would OP say? ”

      It is actually an insane idea to suggest that someone would bring up their employee’s miscarriage from several months ago at a holiday party.

      1. Elsewise*

        It is, but honestly this manager seems to have some pretty messed-up boundaries, so I can’t totally discount it. (That being said, all of this is easily solved by LW telling their partner, if they exist, which is what most people in a relationship would do.)

    6. HonorBox*

      If I (male) pooped my pants at work and then had to lie to dodge super nosy questions and explain my extended absence – all of which I know is different than what the letter presents – I am pretty sure I’d be spilling the beans completely when my wife asked me how my day was. Then if it ever came up, she’d be on board with whatever my lie was and wouldn’t “out” my poopy pants.

      And going back to the situation presented in the letter, it would be a really strange topic of conversation at a work event, even to offer their condolences.

    7. Jaydee*

      I don’t know about you, but a key part of the success of my 20+ year relationship is that my spouse and I…talk to each other occasionally. We don’t usually find out stuff about each other through a grapevine of our friends and coworkers.

      If the LW is in a relationship and if their partner is more reasonable and trustworthy than the boss (a low bar to be sure) I assume the LW would tell her partner the truth as an “OMG you won’t believe the day I’ve had!” kind of story.

  22. Anon Today*

    I just wanted to thank the LW for writing in about this for a tangential reason. I too have problems with lying and I think this helped me realize that I also lie when pushed or feel out of control. I never connected this before and I have hated myself for so long for it. I now feel I can take back some control over this.

    1. Rex Libris*

      When someone in authority corners you and refuses to let up, IMO they’ve ceded any right to the truth.

      I had a supervisor who was one of the most rigid and judgmental people I’ve ever met. If he found out you didn’t see things exactly the way he did, you suddenly found yourself held to much stricter standards than your peers, and regularly disregarded or dismissed. He never got the truth from anyone, because everybody simply told him what he wanted to hear, or whatever wouldn’t get them “in trouble.” So… who is responsible for that situation? The boss, or the people simply trying to get by?

    2. Also Anon Today*

      I’ve realised the same thing reading this letter. This has come as a huge shock but also a huge relief. I’ve thought I was a bad person for reaching for lies (even if I rarely actually utter them) all these years when actually it’s a stress response some other people have. Another commenter referred to it as being ‘at the bottom of your toolbox’ which is such a good way of putting it. I’m honestly in shock. Thank you OP.

    3. foofoo*

      I learned to lie as a survival technique when I was a teenager and dealing with an overbearing parent. I could either tell the truth and get screamed at, or I could lie and avoid getting screamed at, and if the lie was found out… well I’d get screamed at the same way if I’d told the truth.

      It’s a coping mechanism that can come from an unhealthy environment. It can unfortunately become the default tool when you fear any negative response from someone, so there’s a lot to unlearn so you don’t use it too often, but understanding where it originated from and why is a good way to start dealing with it.

      I don’t think it’s wrong to use it, I see it as a tool for managing certain types of situations. I try not to use it though, unless someone has pushed me to the point where it’s one of the only ways to get out of a lose-lose situation.

      1. Anonforthis*

        ^^ This. My parents were physically abusive. If you did something “wrong” you would get beaten. So you could lie and potentially get away with whatever you did, which meant you might not get beaten, or you could get caught and get beaten, but you were going to get beaten anyway.

        So guess what? I would lie to cover up mistakes, or things I thought were mistakes, when a “normal” person might have owned up to it because they had grown up in a healthy environment where you could make mistakes and you wouldn’t get physically abused. I also had some whackadoodle bosses early in my career who treated minor mistakes or oversights like they were world-ending problems, which didn’t help.

    4. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

      I was once a habitual liar and a total mess. It’s taken decades of work but I can comfortably say that lying when you need to for your own safety (physical, emotional etc) is absolutely fine.

      Making up things to GET attention is wrong.
      Making up things to get AWAY from attention is not.

    5. Lyra Belacqua*

      Yes, I’m in this boat, too–and I notice that while I still have that instinct at times, I haven’t actually lied (with the exception of white lies, e.g. “I have plans that night” when the plans are to watch Netflix) since leaving a psychologically unsafe workplace that sounds a lot like LW’s. Therapy is a great idea for the LW, particularly since they describe having other stressors in their life right now, but it sounds like environmental factors are playing a huge role here, and LW shouldn’t discount that.

    6. CommanderBanana*

      *sending you Internet hugs*

      This is actually pretty common – I see it really frequently in our clients who are coming out of abusive situations.

  23. Busy Middle Manager*

    No comment here aren’t addressing the “missed a meeting” part. OP – you need to get some coworkers in your phone and should’ve texted them you’re not coming, and crisis would’ve been averted.

    Everyone is saying your boss put you in a bad situation, well that worked both ways. What was on that meeting? Did a bunch of important customers or higher ups show up and now the boss looks dumb? Did you find out why they were annoyed!

    Also keep spare clothes around! Add coworker #s to your phone. And think up white lies. “I have a previous engagement” or “I had to powder my nose.”

    TBH here in this case white lies wouldn’t have helped, texting everyone asking to delay the meeting would’ve been the best response

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Yeah, I think the only thing the LW erred with here was not letting anyone know she was going to miss the meeting. I don’t think that necessarily solves the problem — her absence may still have caused a crisis in the meeting and it’s possible the meeting couldn’t have been postponed — but not providing any notice probably didn’t help things.

    2. londonedit*

      The OP told the boss at the beginning that she had to deal with something and would be a while getting back, so it’s not as if it was a total shock. I can understand the boss saying ‘Hey, what was so urgent that you had to miss the meeting?’, but after that, the boss should have accepted the OP saying ‘I had to deal with a minor health issue, I’m fine now’ or whatever. These things happen.

    3. Insert Clever Name Here*

      OP did alert the manager in advance that she would be late:

      I had let my manager know when it first started that I had had an emergency and would be a while getting back.

      1. HonorBox*

        Yep. And late to a standing meeting. We take these letters as written, giving the LW the benefit of the doubt. Had she said “meeting with clients” or “important meeting at which I was presenting” the situation is a little different because of the stakes of the meeting, but she told her boss she had an emergency and would be a while coming back.

      2. Caramel & Cheddar*

        I don’t think “I would be awhile getting back” is necessarily the same as “I’m definitely going to miss the meeting,” though. Like if someone told me they might be awhile, I’d assume they were potentially going to be late, not that they were definitely going to miss the meeting entirely, otherwise they would have said that.

        1. Jennifer Strange*

          She said she had an emergency. As a manager, I would definitely take that to mean she didn’t have an exact idea of when she would be there and there was a possibility she would miss the meeting. During emergencies people aren’t necessarily keeping an eye on the time to give beat by beat updates.

          1. Caramel & Cheddar*

            Yep, definitely not, I’m just saying “I might be awhile” is super open to interpretation. If my report told me that they had an emergency, by first thought would be that they’d actually be gone for the rest of the day; if you told me that you’d be back in a while, I’d stop assuming you were definitely going to miss the meeting. But this is moot because neither of us are her manager and presumably wouldn’t have reacted the way this manager did no matter how we interpreted “I might be awhile.”

            2. Brett*

              Agreed that it isn’t necessarily specific, although from the letter we know that the incident occurred near the end of her lunch and she got back to the office “over an hour” after lunch, which I would assume means she was gone somewhere between 90-120 minutes. That seems like a pretty reasonable timeframe for ‘a while.’

    4. Poison I.V. drip*

      LW says she did let the boss know, before she left. And she said it was a standing meeting, which I read as “no big deal if you miss one once in a while.”

    5. Reba*

      OP informed her boss that she was going to miss the meeting. It isn’t as if she just left everyone hanging.

      re: white lies, did you read that the boss didn’t accept her euphemistic vague answers she tried? that’s the whole reason OP is here!

      I’m sure it was awkward with the clients but… emergencies do happen, workers are humans, and a healthy emotional response to a health issue disrupting a meeting would be to express sympathy and reschedule for anything the OP is needed for. Not to grill the OP for the boss feeling humiliated or inconvenienced or whatever.

    6. Silver Robin*

      Neither style of excuse you provided would have worked here
      “I had to powder my nose” – absolutely not a reason to miss a standing meeting
      “I had a previous engagement” – then she should have been able to flag that earlier than last minute

      LW could and should have given more of a heads up, yes. An email or a Teams message or whatever instant form of text communication the office uses would have been sufficient. But LW was not at all wrong for saying “minor medical emergency” considering that is 1) exactly what happened and 2) exactly the kind of thing that can make a person miss an important meeting with minimal notice.

      1. Silver Robin*

        Adding since I realized LW did actually give a heads up: LW could have said “minor medical emergency” when giving the heads up, rather than just “going to be a while, sorry”. The latter has enough heft for people to generally consider it reasonable to duck out last minute while the latter requires that your manager trusts you not to be frivolous. Clearly this manager trusts nothing and likely would have interrogated LW anyway, but maybe including what kind of emergency it was would have staved off some of the anger.

        Not a major misstep on LW’s part anyway; the manager is wearing all of the bananapants here

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        “I had to powder my nose” as a white lie in your pocket….

        The manager wasn’t accepting minor medical emergency as an excuse, so how would this help? I’m baffled.

        1. Spencer Hastings*

          Yeah, you don’t want something too frivolous-sounding — even a reasonable person might go “WTF?” in that case.

        2. londonedit*

          Totally agree – ‘I had to powder my nose’ sounds incredibly frivolous. Even though we all know it’s code for ‘I needed a wee’, it’s a fluffy way of putting it and there’s no way it makes it sound like something worth missing a meeting for. If the boss was grilling the OP for information on a health issue, there’s absolutely no way they’d have accepted ‘I had to powder my nose’ as an excuse. Powder your nose? That took you so long that you had to miss a meeting???

          ‘I had a previous engagement’ is also a terrible excuse because it makes it sound like the OP is evading the question, and it also sounds frivolous and like the OP just had ‘something better to do’. Again, the boss in this situation is never going to accept that. Previous engagement? Where? Who with? What made it so important that you had to miss a meeting??

    7. amoeba*

      I mean, in most orgs, it’s definitely not a dramatic incident to miss one instance of a standing meeting. Like, for us it’s not even a big deal if somebody says “oh, so sorry, I messed up the times and was away from my computer!”. If they had a history of doing that every week – sure. If it’s a super important meeting with external people, sure. But missing a single internal recurring meeting? Seriously? That wouldn’t warrant anything but “oh, so sorry, something came up last minute!”/”this got lost in my Outlook!”. Certainly not the amount of precautions you list here.

    8. Rex Libris*

      Would a bunch of important customers be impressed when the OP showed up in the state they were in? It’s pointless question, because the reality is that the OP couldn’t go to the meeting, regardless.

      And I’m trying to remember a time where I’ve thought, “Gee, I better keep a full set of spare clothes in my office in case I accidentally wet myself just before a meeting” and nothing is coming to mind. I’ll admit I was never an Eagle Scout or anything, but I think this takes being prepared to an unrealistic level.

      1. Not on board*

        I know, right? I mean, I might have a sweater, socks, shoes, or such, but not spare pants.

        The boss is a jerk for not accepting the vague terminology and leaving it alone.

      2. Lore*

        Also, I work in a cubicle with one file drawer and no other closed storage, and most cubicles are shared between two people with different in-office days. Our floor has no coat closets. If I needed to keep extra clothes on hand I’d have to carry them in my laptop bag every day. Not super practical.

      3. N C Kiddle*

        If it happened several times, or if OP went to get it checked out and got a diagnosis that suggested it might happen again, then it might be reasonable to start keeping spare clothes. But you’re right, it’s hardly the sort of thing you’d think to do otherwise.

    9. HonorBox*

      The boss knew there was an emergency and OP would be delayed. No need to text coworkers. Crisis should have been averted, but the boss didn’t care to take the very reasonable explanation from OP about what happened.

      And keep spare clothes around? Sure that’s a possibility, but also if this is the first and only time this has happened, it sounds like OP was able to get clothes without too much trouble. She missed a standing meeting, and it sure doesn’t sound like it was one that put anyone out too much.

    10. Happy*

      They told their manager they would be late…this comment is really grasping at some straws to find a way to blame the LW.

    11. Dahlia*

      “I had to powder my nose.” is not a good excuse to miss a meeting??? Like that’s a euphanism for having to use the bathroom. The manager is going to ask why it took OP over an hour to go to the bathroom.

  24. anon for this*

    I would loudly comment each time the issue came up that the manager broke confidence about a private health matter, and that’s what you(OP) prefer people focus on rather than the health issue.

  25. Web of Pies*

    I know it’s really, REALLY tough to do on the spot (I have been in a similar situation as OP and told the truth in a panic about a medical condition I really didn’t want to discuss with the boss who asked).

    However, your boss/coworkers aren’t entitled to any of this information, and I think it’s OK to dig in and say you’re not going to share details, even if it makes it weird. Also, all this drama for a missed MEETING? Not even a client presentation or something? WHO. CARES. People miss meetings and get caught up later, it’s so so so normal and fine! You boss is off their rocker.

  26. Bruce*

    OP, please be kind with yourself. Focus on working with your therapist, think of some scenarios so you can be prepared for them but don’t stir up new issues if they don’t come up on their own.

  27. Sheworkshardforthemoney*

    You were bullied by your manager. A good manager would realize anyone missing a meeting at the last minute would have a good reason. She needed to stop as soon as you said it was private and health related. Forcing you into a corner was very wrong on her part and then disclosing your medical information to others makes it so much worse.

  28. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Honestly, your manager didn’t even handle this well if you had had a miscarriage at work! Saying okay and then leaving the room?? I don’t know if AAM has every covered “what to say to a direct report who tells you they’re in the middle of miscarrying” but I’d hope it would be something like “Reassure them that their health is most important” and, at minimum, ask if there’s anyone they want you to call so they can go home / to the doctor / whatever would be most comfortable while it happens. Offering even the tiniest bit of concern and comfort would have gone a long way here.

    Years ago I had a colleague who miscarried in the middle of an event she was working and I think about that a lot in terms of how few conversations we have about how this should be handled in the workplace.

    2. Myrin*

      I was thinking that! That reaction alone shows me that this manager is not someone who is particularly refined when it comes sto interpersonal relationships.

    3. Gamer Girl*

      My sister started bleeding profusely (month 3 of her pregnancy–don’t worry, it was a very dramatic situation, but the baby was fine!) at work during the busy hour of the day. When she quickly told her manager she was leaving, he tried to stop her, saying, “It’s probably too late anyway. If you’re bleeding that much, the baby’s probably a goner. So can you stay another hour at least? But actually, you should really stay until the end of your shift.” And started telling her that there was nothing she could do for the baby now, and he would be completely slammed, and she should really think about that.

      She called her husband in hysterics and he told her to call the hospital and sit down immediately and that they were leaving, and manager was just an ass and not a doctor. They got to the hospital and everything turned out ok in the end, but the head OB drafted a strongly worded letter for my sister to give a lawyer. She would indeed have likely lost the baby if she hadn’t gone to the hospital asap.

      Manager weaseled his way out of a lawsuit. However, the business shut down the week after my sister finally went on maternity leave (which he also guilted her about and tried to persuade her not to take…)

      All that to say: there are a lot of people who don’t have an ounce of compassion when they are mildly inconvenienced by someone else’s literal medical emergency. So I wholeheartedly agree that there should be better training on all those “what to do if” medical situations to do with having a uterus. There’s so much training about full body accidents like wounds, loss of consciousness, CPR, but pregnancy and other uterus stuff also can entail sudden emergencies. It’s still so taboo to talk about any uterus-effects in general beyond “cramps” and there more I think about it, the more telling it is that I’ve literally never been trained at work about anything uterus or pregnancy-specific during our mandatory, yearly first aid trainings. Hmmm….

      1. Gamer Girl*

        Oh, and I forgot! I had a heavy bleeding, probably miscarriage at work and didn’t know it was one until I mentioned it to my GYN at my yearly appointment. I thought it was just a weird blip, even though I bled through all of my clothes, onto my chair and even a bit on the floor. My colleagues were awesome about the situation, formed a human shield to get me to the bathroom, and lent me many spare items of clothing after I did the same thing to my spare outfit. My grand boss, on the other hand, was clueless when I turned up late to our meeting (my colleagues had told him that I had a situation come up but would be with him asap). “Well I guess I don’t even need to explain because you should know what this means!” I joked when I finally made it to the meeting room, gesturing to the heavy sweatshirt secured around my middle and mentioning the borrowed, absurdly long trousers. He did not and was generally mystified. I tried to vaguely explain it but he did not understand.

        So, I told him to just ask his wife what it means when a woman has a heavy sweatshirt tied securely around her midsection and had to borrow spare trousers. Still nothing! I warned him that she would know instantly and that he might regret asking.

        He came up to me the next day, bright red, and said that his wife told him that he was an oblivious idiot and to tell me so and asked me if I was ok.

        In my anecdotal experience: plenty of people (in my case men, but could be anyone) either don’t care at all or don’t even understand what is going on with uteri and could use some direct training!

        And for the record, I don’t blame you in the slightest OP. Any kind of emergency human downstairs situation where multiple items of clothing are immediately affected is a code red!

  29. Lightbourne Elite*

    I’m sorry, but while manager absolutely should not have pushed and was completely in the wrong for that, I think “your manager created this mess” is terrible phrasing that elides the fact that LW did in fact do something very wrong herself. LW, you seem aware that lying about this was a horrible thing to do and you’re taking steps to address that, so this is not meant to rub it in. But lets not pretend that the bad behavior of the manager justifies or explains LW lying about having a miscarriage.

    1. Tech Industry Refugee*

      She clearly panicked – and it wasn’t a lie that hurt anyone. Manager has no right to push for more information.

      1. Lightbourne Elite*

        Even the LW herself admits that lying when panicking is a bad habit, especially about something so major. And it is a lie that could easily hurt someone. We can have grace for the LW and the pressure she was put under without pretending that lying about miscarriage is good thing to do.

        2. londonedit*

          Was it ideal? No. Do these things happen sometimes? Yes. We’re not robots. Sometimes our brains do things we’d rather they didn’t, especially if we’re stressed or we’re being put under pressure by someone. I’m sure the vast majority of people here have said things they regret later. It’s not as if the OP is going around willingly lying about having had a miscarriage. It was once, under pressure from her boss, and she should have been able to assume that it wouldn’t have gone any further.

        3. Saturday*

          I don’t see anyone saying it was a good thing to do, just that it was understandable given the circumstances.

          And “horrible”? I don’t see what’s horrible about it. It was very unlikely to hurt anyone at all – if the boss hadn’t continued to be horrible and told someone about it, no one else ever would have known.

        4. HonorBox*

          Who does the lie hurt? There are several people upthread who commented that they had miscarriages and don’t feel harmed by this. So who is hurt by this lie? She had to say nothing more than “minor medical emergency” and the boss could / should have either just left it alone or asked to make sure she was OK.

        5. Good witch today*

          I have had five miscarriages – two early on and three just past the 12th week. This LW was put in an unfair position and if she told me about it, I would tell her that she did the best she could at the time. How could this hurt someone else? If you are referring to any consequences the manager might face if HR is brought in, she brought that on herself.

        6. Observer*

          And it is a lie that could easily hurt someone.

          How would it hurt anyone? And it certainly should not be “easy” since the LW should have been able to assume that her manager would not gossip about it. And it’s only the manager’s gossip that brings up even the *possibility* of people being hurt by this.

        7. March*

          This wasn’t a lie that could have hurt someone. The manager was literally the only person in the world who heard it. Also the only person who is responsible for not REMAINING the only one who heard it, by spreading it. Huge breach of privacy.
          The manager made herself responsible for the entire situation from the moment she started pushing OP for *details that were not relevant to the matter at hand*.

    2. Nicosloanica*

      I mean, she only hurt people in a theoretical way, under the theory that actual people having actual miscarriages can psychically “feel” that someone is using their situation in a way that benefits them, right? Also, OP also didn’t use it to minimize something or create mistrust around the situation, like she was just skipping the meeting because she didn’t feel like it or forget; she had an actual urgent medical issue, it’s just that the one she actually had was one that our culture is weird about and thus felt unable to share.

    3. JK*

      Unless you think the LW should have told the truth and had the manager tell people what really happened, I’m not sure what you expect someone under duress to do in this situation. If she stood there thinking of a really perfect, socially acceptable lie, it would have come across to the manager that she was making something up. She said the first thing that came to mind to get the manager off her back. You make it sound like her reaction was actually premeditated.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      I think “your manager created this mess” refers to two different things:

      1) the manager’s pushiness lead to the LW lying about the nature of the health emergency (which I personally think does explain the lie, but I can agree to disagree on that part of your comment),

      and

      2) the manager then told a coworker to delay her pregnancy announcement on LW’s behalf (!), has been treating LW differently, and is a known gossip who may share the LW’s private medical info with more people.

      That second part of the “mess” is 100% of the manager’s own creation.

    5. Liz the Snackbrarian*

      Calling what LW did “very wrong” is such a reach. She was panicked in the moment and didn’t tell the lie to anyone else, and there’s zero evidence that the lie has harmed anyone else. We’ve all lied at some point in our lives–this isn’t an indicator of LW’s character, it’s an indicator that they’ve put in a bad situation.

    6. new laptop who dis*

      Why would you double down on shaming LW for the excuse she made up on the fly? LW is already obviously significantly struggling and berating herself needlessly over it.

      Who cares if she lied? Having a miscarriage is horrible (I know from experience) but LW did not hurt ANYONE by naming her personal emergency as one. Nobody would have known about it if her manager hadn’t been a blabbermouth. It was NOT a “horrible” thing to do.

      Would you have shamed her for saying she had a migraine? Or a bad case of diarrhea? And called her horrible? I think not.

    7. Not on board*

      So you would have admitted to a pushy manager that you wet yourself? I mean, I actually think the lie is perfect – it shames the manager for pushing for private info they’re not entitled to, it’s not possible to prove it false, and the manager is now leaving them alone. Also, would you want your manager telling other people in the office you wet yourself?

      People tell lies all the time to smooth things out at work or socially – our society cannot function properly if everyone tells the bald truth all the time.

    8. Postess With The Mostest*

      You know, the first teenager I raised (grown now) lied on a regular basis, and I often asked for help in online forums because it made me so angry. We never punished her or made her feel badly when she told us the truth, so I couldn’t understand what her “problem” was.

      A lot of those online forums suggested strongly that my partner and I a) not publish the lie and b) try to understand why she was lying. In the end, it usually boiled down to some version of “She didn’t feel safe.”

      I understand we’re talking about an adult here and lies in the workplace aren’t ideal, but I also think some compassion is in order. We don’t all react perfectly to an inappropriately stressful and difficult situation (on top of the ALREADY stressful and difficult situation she actually *was* dealing with!) and scolding her about being a lying liar who lies is very unhelpful.

      She knows this was a misstep and wants to correct it as best she can. She’s returning to therapy so she can better dig into the roots of this particular stress response. What more do you want?

      I also see several comments above from people who HAVE had miscarriages and still manage to find that compassion.

      1. Late Bloomer*

        This is great, and thank you for saying it.

        I absolutely agree with everyone who’s reassuring OP that she has nothing to be ashamed about in having lied under this stressful situation as a means of getting out from under intrusive and inappropriate questions. The litany of reassurance and compassion is, frankly, heartening on a day when my media feed is full of less benign lies and a lack of compassion. What I keep coming back to in OP’s letter is her reference to having a pattern of lying and the therapy to understand and address it. I keep wondering if the larger pattern in OP’s life is being around people who can only be appeased or put off via lying–and where lying has become a defense mechanism in the face of unreasonable people. In other words, as Postess said, a history of having to deal with unsafe people and using whatever defense mechanisms work. Developing other mechanisms can be a lifetime project, OP, and I send you all my best wishes in that endeavor, along with my hope that you can let yourself off the hook for the absolutely understandable reaction you described in your letter.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        Yeah, I’ve known a couple of people who think all lying is wrong and that all lying should be punished, but it’s always people with incredibly safe lives who aren’t really informed on the psychology of lying because they’ve never had to be. Most of us would lie if we felt endangered or insecure, but so many of us are surrounded by trust and safety that they don’t understand the truth is impossible without that trust. A right to people’s private truths simply does not exist but because of poor management skills, there was no scope for OP to simply refuse the boss’ insistence on having it.

    9. Anandatic*

      Can you explain how and why what LW did was “very wrong* or who it hurt?

      Keep in mind that a manager should absolutely not share an employee’s private medical information – the manager should not have told this to the pregnant employee. Nobody else should have been informed of this information, lie or not, so it should not be able to harm anyone else.

      Also, I do think that if you’re going to constantly press someone you have power over for private medical information, they have every right to withhold the truth! The manager should have stopped pressing, but she clearly wanted an answer, and certainly would have spread anything the LW told her in confidence. I’d be inclined to use the first lie I could think of in that situation, too!

    10. Lab Rabbit*

      this is not meant to rub it in

      But you are very much rubbing it in.

      This is not a very nice comment. I generally prefer to the truth to a lie, but this is that one in thousand times exception.

    11. Puzzled2218*

      I disagree that lying here was a horrible thing to do. If someone demands information that is none of their business and a violation of your privacy, they are not entitled to said information. Therefore, they are not entitled to the honest or correct information.

    12. CancerSurvivor*

      No, just no. The manager interrogated the OP about her medical details, when the OP had clearly told her that she had a medical issue and was UNWILLING to discuss what it was. Nobody owes anyone the truth about that.

      It’s significantly embarrassing to lose control of one’s bladder or bowels. Trust me – I had to RE-learn continence after having cancer treatment. (Even now, I have to be careful and I make sure I know where bathrooms are wherever I go.)

      If the OP knew that her manager would use an episode of incontinence against her or blab about it to all and sundry, it entirely makes sense her self-protection instincts to decide that something else was a safer excuse.

      OP – next time tell people you have IBS. It strikes without warning and randomly. Not fun.

    13. Jennifer Strange*

      Someone with immense power over her had cornered her and was prying beyond what was necessary. I think we can forgive the LW for not having the most perfect reaction in that moment to do what she needed to stop an unnecessary conversation. Yes, lying about a miscarriage is not good. Neither is punching someone. But we don’t exist in a vacuum, and there are times where those actions can be understandable given the context.

    14. Audrey Puffins*

      I’ll admit that my first instinct was to think that a fake miscarriage was a terrible thing to lie about, but having never had a miscarriage myself, and having seen the large amount of comments above from people who have had miscarriages and are extending nothing but grace and empathy to the letter writer for her choice of lie, I don’t mind admitting that my instinct here is clearly wrong

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Oh there are certainly situations where it would be very wrong to lie about a miscarriage; it’s just that this isn’t one of them. In Scenario 1) If someone decided unilaterally to make up the lie without pressure, if they were trying to gain something from it, and if they wanted special treatment or as a blanket excuse to be off task, then yes, it would be bad. The difference here is that it’s Scenario 2) OP wasn’t allowed to take care of herself discreetly during an embarrassing body malfunction and was pressed and interrogated until she came up with the sort of reason that would silence someone who felt it was okay to pry into the workings of her body. The most telling thing is that she still wasn’t sent home, even with a disclosure of miscarriage! Exactly what would the response to the truth have been? OP isn’t looking to gain attention or special treatment, quite the opposite, and she never volunteered this lie, or made up the requirement for it to be so serious; she had it pressed out of her. OP is a Scenario 2 person who is feeling the kind of guilt that only someone in Scenario 1 should feel; because we all know we don’t co opt other people’s pain for our own benefit, but Scenario 2 is a totally different animal.

    15. Observer*

      I think “your manager created this mess” is terrible phrasing that elides the fact that LW did in fact do something very wrong herself.

      Hard disagree. The potential pain for other people is 100% on the manager. Because even if the LW were a lying liar who lied so she could go shopping rather than attend a meeting, no one would be in a position to be hurt if the the manager had kept her mouth shut. The *only* ones who should have heard anything *if* the manager actually had any reason to believe that the LW was just blowing off the meeting should have been the LW and HR.

      But lets not pretend that the bad behavior of the manager justifies or explains LW lying about having a miscarriage.

      No pretense. It’s the simple truth. I agree with the LW that it probably was not the best route. But it was a perfectly reasonable reaction to ridiculous behavior. If you really think the the LW is a terrible person for trying to protect herself from an unreasonable, boundary stomping and gossipy boss, I hope that you don’t manage anyone, nor have any input on people’s work (or anything else, for that matter.) The lack of empathy and basic understanding of human behavior is breathtaking.

    16. Anonforthis*

      But lets not pretend that the bad behavior of the manager justifies or explains LW lying about having a miscarriage.

      But it actually does.

  30. Florp*

    OP, you were put in a difficult situation by a nosy, gossipy manager, and you did the best you could. We all have had situations where we had to choose a less than optimal strategy to cope (undiagnosed ADHD made me say some truly stupid things). Give yourself some compassion. This internet stranger is sending you a virtual hug.

    Practice a script ahead of time if anyone else says anything about it. “I have lots of support outside work, so I’d really prefer to focus on work rather than medical problems while I’m in the office. Thank you so much for understanding.” Or whatever works for your situation. Decent people will know to leave it alone. And people who aren’t decent? You don’t need to worry about jerks.

    I hope your boss is feeling all the embarrassment she deserves, though.

    1. Postess With The Mostest*

      You know, the first teenager I raised (grown now) lied on a regular basis, and I often asked for help in online forums because it made me so angry. We never punished her or made her feel badly when she told us the truth, so I couldn’t understand what her “problem” was.

      A lot of those online forums suggested strongly that my partner and I a) not publish the lie and b) try to understand why she was lying. In the end, it usually boiled down to some version of “She didn’t feel safe.”

      I understand we’re talking about an adult here and lies in the workplace aren’t ideal, but I also think some compassion is in order. We don’t all react perfectly to an inappropriately stressful and difficult situation (on top of the ALREADY stressful and difficult situation she actually *was* dealing with!) and scolding her about being a lying liar who lies is very unhelpful.

      She knows this was a misstep and wants to correct it as best she can. She’s returning to therapy so she can better dig into the roots of this particular stress response. What more do you want?

      I also see several comments above from people who HAVE had miscarriages and still manage to find that compassion.

  31. Excelsior*

    LW, when I was young I used to sometimes panic and lie to make a bad situation go away, and I can see myself doing exactly what you did under the wildly inappropriate pressure from your boss.

    She should have realized herself that you wouldn’t have missed the meeting unless you absolutely had to. What did she think, you just blew it off for a leisurely lunch? Your manager was being ridiculous, and you defended yourself against her prying as best you could. You are not the person who screwed up here .

    1. Postess With The Mostest*

      You know, the first teenager I raised (grown now) lied on a regular basis, and I often asked for help in online forums because it made me so angry. We never punished her or made her feel badly when she told us the truth, so I couldn’t understand what her “problem” was.

      A lot of those online forums suggested strongly that my partner and I a) not publish the lie and b) try to understand why she was lying. In the end, it usually boiled down to some version of “She didn’t feel safe.”

      I understand we’re talking about an adult here and lies in the workplace aren’t ideal, but I also think some compassion is in order. We don’t all react perfectly to an inappropriately stressful and difficult situation (on top of the ALREADY stressful and difficult situation she actually *was* dealing with!) and scolding her about being a lying liar who lies is very unhelpful.

      She knows this was a misstep and wants to correct it as best she can. She’s returning to therapy so she can better dig into the roots of this particular stress response. What more do you want?

      I also see several comments above from people who HAVE had miscarriages and still manage to find that compassion.

  33. Poison I.V. drip*

    For future reference, if you need a medical “emergency,” say you’re puking your guts out. No one will ask to see any evidence and it’s non-specific so you’re not committing yourself to a long con job. You can miraculously recover minutes or hours later, as needed, and anybody who demands more info will look weird.

    1. amoeba*

      I mean – you might, but with that lie, I’d be 10000% sending you home RIGHT NOW because quite a lot of people would be worried about possibly catching whatever bug you might have, even if you say you’re feeling better! So if you’re planning on working out the day, I’d personally go with something definitely non-contagious (idk, mild allergic reaction to your lunch? Clothing emergency like ripped trousers? Period accident?)

      1. amoeba*

        And I know that part’s on me, but I’d also be disinfecting every surface you might have touched, avoiding the toilet if we share one until it has been cleaned properly, and imagine feeling sick for the next 48 h or so… Emetophobia isn’t that uncommon, so I’m probably not the only one who’d feel like that. I mean, the boss would certainly deserve that, anyway, but please don’t use that excuse for reasonable people or if any non-horrible colleagues would also hear it!

      2. Observer*

        I’d personally go with something definitely non-contagious (idk, mild allergic reaction to your lunch? Clothing emergency like ripped trousers? Period accident?)

        Anything but a period accident. Because that last thing the LW (or anyone needs) is the judgement of the manager, which is highly likely, nor having people talking about it, which is almost certain, given that this manager is a gossip.

        I like the suggestion of IBS. Anyone who knows about that knows just how unpredictable it can be, even for people who have it mostly under control.

    2. Brandon*

      I’ll go even a step future and offer the euphemism that “your stomach is bothering you or upset.”

      No ones asks for details and you can “recover” quickly.

      1. metadata minion*

        Agree! As someone with as-yet-undiagnosed-but-maybe-mild-IBS issues, I’ll sometimes be legitimately very unwell for 1-2 hours and then be totally fine. And nobody wants to hear details. I usually phrase it as “lunch isn’t sitting well” or something like that.

  34. Jennifer Strange*

    Speaking as someone who has miscarried, please do not worry. You didn’t say it for attention or for any malicious purpose; you had literally been cornered by someone with no sense of boundaries! It’s okay to take care of yourself in that moment.

    2. Covert Copier Whisperer*

      Yes, 100% this. The mere fact of someone else having a miscarriage (or lying about it) has no impact on my own experience of my own miscarriage whatsoever. And none of you coworkers would even have had the chance to be impacted had your boss not carried tales.
      The only thing I want for all of us is to have people respect our individual complex experiences about it, and nothing you did negates that.

      And you got nothing you shouldn’t have gotten anyway– getting to miss a meeting to change your soiled pants without your boss telling at you is absolutely not a privilege only afforded to someone who has a miscarriage… right?!

  35. AnonInCanada*

    I’m sorry that you had to deal with this situation, OP. Your jerk of a boss backed you into a corner, and you said something to get her to back off, despite it being untrue.

    Your jerk of a boss should’ve left it when you said “it was a medical emergency,” but no, Ms. Nunya Bizniss just had to push, so you shoved with what you said. This is not on you, OP. This is on her.

    Hey, Alison, maybe you should add the “jerks” tag to this letter. Because this manager definitely fits the category!

  36. Anandatic*

    OP, please be kind to yourself! it sounds like you wouldn’t have lied had you been backed into a corner, and it also sounds like had you told the truth, your manager would have spread that instead!

    It was a no-win situation your manager forced you into, and I’m glad she’s not telling others the actual truth. Someone who’s this comfortable pushing their employees’ boundaries and sharing private medical information sounds like a nightmare – please consider getting out of there!

  37. merida*

    This manager is egregious! If this manager is known to gossip to everyone without any permission, I’d have lied too. Good grief. The manager is a walking HIPPA violation and also sounds like not a decent human.

    1. metadata minion*

      HIPAA only applies to medical staff and people in similar positions who have official access to medical records. Telling someone medical information you were told in confidence is a jerk move and might be against your workplace’s regulations, but it isn’t covered by HIPAA.

      1. merida*

        Yeah, I’m aware HIPPA doesn’t cover office conversations like this. I didn’t mean that literally. :) Still, if this person worked in a healthcare setting and was throwing around coworker’s health info so casually, I would be very very concerned that they were being just as cavelear about patient info as well.

    3. Observer*

      As the others mentioned, almost certainly not HIPPA. But, there could easily be other potential legal issues, such as ADA and FMLA related stuff. Because part of what is covered is “perception” of disability / need to take leave, and the other is that doing things like embarrassing people / gossiping about their issues can be construed as retaliation, which is illegal.

  38. LCH*

    i have no problem with what you said. your manager was out of line to push and it isn’t her business beyond “medical issue”. obviously whatever it was was bad enough to miss a meeting, let it go, manager!

    2. CubeFarmer*

      Well, HIPAA wouldn’t apply here because it’s not a healthcare setting. More like general privacy laws and just being a decent human.

    3. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I think YOU need HIPAA training, because if you understood HIPAA, you would understand that it does not apply here.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I don’t disagree with you, and in fact I muttered almost the same thing under my breath when I saw comments invoking HIPAA, but that’s kind of an uncharacteristically snotty response to actually make.

      2. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        How’s this: That manager needs “be a mensch” training!

        And even though actual literal HIPAA-the-law doesn’t apply here, the fact that people are talking about it suggests that the concept of “medical information is private information” is filtering into the general culture, and that is a GOOD thing.

  40. AcadLibrarian*

    Kind of different but when rude people push about why I didn’t have children, I will lie and say I couldn’t have them. Sometimes if they’ve been real jerks I add a few tears. Health stuff is nobody’s business but your own.

  41. CubeFarmer*

    OP, this was not your fault. Your manager shouldn’t have pushed it beyond, “I hope everything is okay, and please don’t push yourself to be here if you’re not feeling well.”

    I once had a health scare that I though was acute and needed to be addressed that morning. Instead of emailing my office the truth, I kept it vague, “I need to see urgent care this morning.” I saw urgent care, everything checked out just fine, and then I went into the office. Nobody asked me what happened, fortunately.

  42. illuminate (they/them)*

    One hundred percent this does not seem as bad as it could be. I also have issues with lying impulsively to tell other people what they want to hear/get the reaction I want from them, and I am trying very hard to learn to lean into my discomfort and tell the truth so other people can help me get out of any hole I’ve dug myself into. (It usually goes better than I think it will.) HOWEVER- when someone with power over you is treating you inappropriately, and other reasonable people would also find their behavior inappropriate, a lie told in that moment to protect yourself will not cause as much damage. Reasonable people will understand why you lied, even if it was about something of this nature. Your manager is clearly not reasonable, and you should go back and speak to them about keeping their mouth shut, but otherwise if your coworkers are reasonable then I think you can be at peace about this.

    Wishing you the best!

  44. H.Regalis*

    Like everyone else has said, you were not in the wrong here. Your boss backed you into a corner asking you stuff that is none of her business, and you did what you had to do to get out of it. She has a lot of power over you. Please forgive yourself. Do not tell your manager you didn’t actually have a miscarriage. She is not someone you can trust.

    1. merida*

      I agree! If OP tells her she didn’t have a miscarriage you know that will then spread like wildfire. What a crazy office culture, yikes!

  45. Snubble*

    OP: you know best about therapy, but please go to a medical doctor as well. Adults do not normally wet themselves and something may be wrong. Even if it’s “just” pelvic floor weakness, there are ways to address that, and better to get it checked out and be sure it’s not more serious. I understand why you’re focused on the lie and the potential fallout but bladder control is a basic function you shouldn’t ignore when it fails.

    1. merida*

      This is a great point! I just remembered that the pelvic floor was the culprit for someone I know and they were able to fix the issue with physical therapy.

  46. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    If you are up to it you could be a accidental hero for your coworkers. The sharing of personal health information is a huge no. The pressuring for personal health information is a huge no.

    Getting that through to your manager, either on your own or through HR, before someone who would be not just embarrassed but truly devastated that their personal medical information was gossip fodder would be a huge service.

  47. Happy*

    Oh, LW, please stop beating yourself up! Your manager was horrible in all sorts of ways and you have nothing to feel bad about. Please do tell your manager that it was private information that you do not want shared (which should have been obvious!) and consider going to your manager’s boss and/or HR to complain that your manager insisted you share private medical information with them (despite your wishes!) and then did not keep it confidential.

  48. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    Your boss is a colossal arse. Firstly, pressuring ANYONE to give details of a medical issue is wrong, crass and rude. Secondly, blabbing about it to others is being a revolting human being. She is a liar and a drama hound.

    You yourself said what you had to do to get out of an awful situation. How many times have women been criticised for ‘not saying the exact right words’ or ‘lying’ to get out of a situation involving harrassment? It’s a lot.

    Personally I’d prefer to keep my head down and let her wear herself out. Drama instigators like her thrive on conflict so if you just grey rock her she may just stop with this. However, if she doesn’t then report it to HR. Under no circumstances tell her what actually happened – she’ll twist it.

  49. Emily of New Moon*

    This is one case where telling the truth would not have been believable. Then again, maybe saying, “I peed in my pants” would have shut her up.

    1. metadata minion*

      Why wouldn’t it have been believable? When this has come up in the past, the comments are usually full of people going “oh, honey, it’s ok; it’s happened to me too!”. There’s a reason most drugstores have an entire aisle dedicated to incontinence products.

      (To be clear, it’s still hugely stigmatized and especially given the boss in question I totally understand why the LW lied, but it’s something that really does happen to people, even adults who seem otherwise in good health.)

  50. I Work in Disability Accommodations*

    As someone who has also been cornered about private information that the person had no business knowing, I understand the panic that comes from being in that situation. And it’s hard to enforce boundaries with someone in authority (or who used to have authority over you such as a parent). I blurted something completely inappropriate to shut him up and that’s exactly what you did, OP. My therapist was shocked at the position I was put in when I told her and had no qualms with how I responded – I would be very surprised if your therapist has a different reaction than mine did.

  51. brownstag*

    I’ve had miscarriages, chemical pregnancies and episodes of incontinence (thanks, endometriosis!)

    Your boss was in the wrong. There’s nothing to “fess up to” here. You had an urgent health concern that required immediate attention, there doesn’t need to be any shame over it being bathroom related. One’s reproductive organs can betray us in a ways that causes bathroom issues and fertility issues. None of this is anyone’s business but your own. Your boss has doubled down after insisting on you disclosing details and then further implicating your health condition to a colleague! You are underreacting to how much of a violation this is on the part of your boss. Stay righteously indignant. You are in the right here. Boss abused their power and you did the best you could while fending off a violation.

    Bosses need to stay out of the details of our health concerns, they need to offer reasonable accommodations for the human bodies that they employee, and everyone needs to stay tf out of our bathing suit areas unless specifically invited!

  52. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

    OP: Don’t feel guilty about this particular lie:
    Although lying is normally reprehensible, one major exception to this is lying to avoid someone – especially in authority – insistently demanding your private information to which they have absolutely no right.
    Your boss was totally in the wrong to keep pressing you after you stated the reason for your lateness was private health information. She should have STFU immediately at that point.

    Personally I avoid lies because I’m too useless at lying, let alone repeating them. You were lucky in this case that what popped out of your mouth this time is a pretty safe lie if you let it be.

    Hence I disagree with those recommending you go to HR, because it might make things worse:
    it sounds like you feel guilty about lying and if they ask for more detail you might panic again and find yourself either blurting out a confession or more lies that get you confused and stressed. (I would totally dig myself into a mess like this!) You are not obliged to risk trouble just to rein back an overstepping manager for the wider good.

    I suggest you just move forward and this should blow over without further action from you. If your manager or anyone else raises the matter again, just say you want to move on and leave a painful topic behind you.

  53. Fíriel*

    I’m currently having some personal life issues with a friend who I believe is a habitual liar of the kind OP describes having once been in the letter (they’ve confessed to me as a joke lies they’ve told other people, and many of the stories they tell me inspire deep incredulity/don’t hold up to even the slightest possible scrutiny). This is to say I do understand why you’re worried and feel guilty about falling back into this kind of pattern, but I think what you have to focus on is the reason why this is wrong in most circumstances: it can betray the trust of a friend and establish dis-trust with that person who you like (because I know my friend lies about trivial things, how do I know they’re telling the truth right now when they owe me money?), it can lead another person to do things they might not otherwise do that could cause them risk (do I not phone to cancel our shared hotel room bc friend promises they already did it and just can’t provide any proof because of a whacky series of hijinx?).

    And then, having thought about this, remember that you did not owe your boss disclosure in these circumstances, she insisted on it, and that had she been respectful or appropriate, she would at least have backed off after you’d given your excuse. I think talking this through with a therapist is a great idea, but you don’t need to feel guilty for breaching trust with her (person being hostile and pushy with you) in the same way you might if you’d, say, lied to a friend about why you couldn’t help them with XYZ important thing.

  54. In HR*

    In the future, go with diarrhea — no one asks any questions after that.

    You and your therapist can decide is this is the one lie you can use when stressed – and how often (once a quarter ….. once every 10 years ….). What a jerk of a manager. Hang in there – get any help you need on physical and mental health fronts. I would not go to HR in this situation. It might be better for the company, but I am not sure it is better for you.

    1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      It sure sounds like this manager would have shared that information too, though.

  55. Helen*

    Am I understanding the timeline correctly? Your manager thinks you miscarried and were back at work in an hour?

    2. Observer*

      With an early miscarriage, it can happen.

      But it also speaks to how problematic the whole culture is. And why I suggested elsewhere that it’s possible that the LW wet herself because she was really not able to access the bathroom in a reasonable time frame.

      And that *is* a medical problem! And if that’s happening on a regular basis, something needs to change.

      That’s easier said than done. I suspect that the LW’s best bet in such a case would be to start job hunting like mad.

    3. ConfidentChicken*

      That’s what I’ve been wondering, or will this manager now expect every woman that has a miscarriage to be back to work within an hour.

      As someone who has had 3 miscarriages, it lasts so much longer than that and it’s very very painful (both physically and emotionally).

      1. Observer*

        or will this manager now expect every woman that has a miscarriage to be back to work within an hour.

        That’s a genuine problem, but not of the LW’s making. Because the reality is that miscarriages can vary *enormously* in their physical impacts, depending on a whole host of factors. And if this manager is stupid enough to use the LW’s excuse as “proof” that “everyone” should be back at work the same day, that’s 100% on her – and I have no doubt that she would have found the “proof” she wanted elsewhere.

        *Reasonable* bosses know that just because one person bounces back fro condition X in this much time does not mean that *everyone* will. Stupid and unreasonable bosses who can’t wrap their heads around that reality are going to make unreasonable demands anyway.

        1. ConfidentChicken*

          That boss would totally find “proof” elsewhere. I know it’s not the LW’s making.

          I’ve just worked for a boss like that before. I actually heard him say to a pregnant employee once “my wife didn’t need to run to the bathroom twice an hour when she was pregnant, why do you have to?” Or what he said to me “Brian gets migraines all the time and powers through it, you don’t need to go home just for a migraine.”

          I think that’s the only reason that thought popped into my head.

    4. Hyaline*

      I sincerely hope that anyone who knows one person who had a miscarriage realizes that they know one person who had a miscarriage! For some, yes, this is normal. For others, they’re out of commission for a while. One more point for “trust women to know what’s up with their bodies.”

    5. WFH4VR*

      JFC. If one of my reports told me they’d just had a miscarriage, I would 1) Ask if they need an ambulance, 2) Ask if they needed me to call their spouse/partner, 3) Needed a ride home or to the doctor. Furthermore I’d tell them to take the next few days off and would arrange work coverage. LW’s “manager” isn’t fit for managing trash pickup.

      1. Ellie*

        Yep. In fact I advised a man on my team to go home immediately when he disclosed that his wife had just had a miscarriage – basically reminded him that we get 3 days compassionate leave and to please use it, its no problem. I can’t believe that heartless manager just said ok and walked away! Didn’t even say she was sorry, or to take a bit of time. So terrible.

  56. Ann O'Nemity*

    If it were me, I’d feel the need to address some of the aftermath with my manager. I would want to ask that she stop telling people my medical history, and also note that there is no reason to delay Jane’s announcement on my behalf. Further, I’d like to request that things go back to “normal” in terms of the working relationship and communication with the manager.

  57. K Smith*

    OP, I have nothing but kind thoughts and sympathy for you (just like everyone else responding here). You manager is 100% out of line with her intense questioning of you – so very, very inappropriate and unprofessional. Your manager is the bad actor here.

    Please be kind to yourself (a little cliche, but how would you react if this had happened to a close friend? I’m guessing you’d be really sympathetic and have kind words for your friend).

  58. Too Legit To Not Quit*

    OP’s boss is a jerk. Now that she knows the manager’s mo she needs a rehearsed statement that will return awkward to sender next time. Boss may pick on her more for medical issues since she [thinks] she got something juicy to gossip about the first time.

    My friend was put in a similar position. On a diversity related training a few years ago, participants of one race were told they had to leave their cameras on so the presenter could detect any problematic body language of facial expressions. Friend was having a terrible period and the accompanying GI problems. She got scolded for getting up during the program and “making faces” so had to choose between being called a racist who wasn’t on board with diversity or saying in front of 100+ people “Sorry, but I’m bleeding through a tampon an hour and have gas and diarrhea.” She was so pissed by that point she went into tremendous detail until the presenter told her to stop.

      1. Too Legit To Not Quit*

        Me also. I can’t believe she didn’t get fired. But from a group who is supposed to be promoting multi-cultural understanding, presuming to know that everyone has the same facial expressions is bonkers. The trainers ended up being exposed much later as grifters but did a lot of damage first.

    2. CommanderBanana*

      so the presenter could detect any problematic body language of facial expressions.

      That is absolutely insane.

      1. Arrietty*

        Made even worse by it being specific to one ethnicity (or, presumably, the trainer’s assumption of their ethnicity).

        1. Too Legit To Not Quit*

          Yeah exactly. It was understandably a very emotional time and my experience was that there were some people who capitalized and got into training & consulting but they weren’t equipped.
          The sad part is, my friend says it was a wasted opportunity to have an important discussion but of course she’s lost trust in her workplace permanently. I think there have been repercussions over these presenters at other employers in our state.

    3. Hyaline*

      Your friend is my new hero.

      Also incredibly ironic that a *diversity training* did something that ended up marginalizing a woman for biological functions she couldn’t do anything about–yeeeesh!And it was ableist to boot!

      1. March*

        My (admittedly limited as yet) experience with DEI trainings is that there’s an uncomfortable amount of emphasis on racism and sexism (never as systemic issues, mind, but as personal faux pas that just aren’t very, you know, nice) and TOTAL DEAFENING SILENCE on ableism. Neurodivergent? More like neurodivergen’t.

      2. March*

        My experience with DEI trainings is that there’s an uncomfortable amount of emphasis on racism and sexism (never as systemic issues, mind, but as personal faux pas that just aren’t very, you know, nice) and *total deafening silence* on ableism. Neurodivergent? More like neurodivergen’t.

  59. Not A Manager*

    I understand that lying is wrong, but when people in power literally make it impossible for you to safely tell the truth, then you do what you have to in order to survive.

    2. allathian*

      Indeed.

      Being so conflict-avoidant that you use lying as a first resort whenever you’re faced with any situation that makes you even slightly uncomfortable is not a good look. The LW used to do that and went to therapy to stop doing it.

      But there’s a place for lying, especially lying by omission. It’s often a necessary expedient to make social interactions more pleasant for everyone, and people who pride themselves on always telling the truth and nothing but the truth (as they see it) are without exception very unpleasant to be around because they use their “truthfulness” as an excuse to say horrible things to people.

      I mean, the only socially acceptable answer to “Does this dress make me look fat?” is “No, you look great” unless you’re in a particularly close relationship where the terms for critiquing the other person’s looks have been agreed in advance. I once read about someone who thought they were being clever when they said something like: “Yes! Face it, you are fat, and there’s nothing that you could wear that would make you look not-fat. But there’s nothing wrong with being fat, so embrace your fatness, gurl!” Sure, body shaming needs to go away yesterday, but this won’t work on someone who’s internalized the idea that fat = bad. People who have embraced body positivity at any size won’t ask if a dress makes them look fat.

      1. N C Kiddle*

        I remember an advert for some drink or other where the gimmick was it makes you speak your mind (never mind whether that’s a desirable selling point). The drinker was asked “does this dress make me look fat” and responded “no, it’s your fat that does that.”

  60. Cedrus Libani*

    Multiple things can be true at once. I do sometimes lie to cover a truth I’m ashamed of, but it’s a behavior that comes from a place in myself that I’m not proud of either, and also I do understand that shame-lies tend to spiral out into a bigger mess (um, from experience). It’s not something a grown adult ought to be doing. However, I also believe that, if someone has stuck their nose into a place it doesn’t belong, then by the very definition of “none of their business” they’ve forfeited the right to an honest answer. If it’s not safe to tell them to bleep off, and it’s also not safe to tell the truth, then you are completely within your rights to lie.

  61. Wendy Darling*

    In general I am opposed to lying, but I make an exception for cases when people demand answers to questions they have no business asking in the first place. If someone is being super invasive about something that’s none of their business, I have absolutely no qualms about telling them a lie as long as that lie doesn’t harm someone outside the conversation. Which this lie did not.

    I cannot imagine a way in which this would hurt people who’ve experienced a miscarriage. If anything, in the future if someone DOES miscarry at work maybe this manager will think twice about prying, in which case your lie would benefit them.

    You’re fine, your manager is a jerk, I’m sorry that happened.

  62. Elsa*

    OP, your boss is terrible!

    I am a manager who is not a bullyish control freak, and I can tell you that when someone tells me they have a private health emergency I am *grateful* that they did not share the details! I would really rather not know about anyone’s bathroom issues.

    What happened to you is totally not normal and not acceptable.

  63. DJ*

    Don’t beat yourself up. Your manager was way out of line for pushing you. And then telling someone what you said. Way out of line. And yes tell your manager you know she’s repeated this to someone and not to do so again.
    But not sure whether employee’s privacy is covered by law. Depends on country and even state!

  64. Snarkastic*

    OP: I am livid on your behalf. Your manager pushed unnecessarily and backed you into a corner. Please take Alison’s great advice.

  65. Coverage Associate*

    In at least one traditional philosophical system, lying is wrong because it corrupts the truth, which should belong to everyone.

    But not all truths belong to everyone, and medical information is at the top of that private list. 2 wrongs don’t make a right, but I am not sure that it is wrong to lie when pressed for information that the asker has no right to.

    The analogy might be OP didn’t steal, she re gifted. The other person was not entitled to the information, so what does it matter how the giver got it?

  66. Cbrooks*

    LW, if you don’t feel like you’ll leave this behind unless you clarify things, or feel as if the lying will haunt you too much to let it go, you can eventually mention that you had a “uncommon very strong discharge” that day, which really scared you, so you went to a doctor (do go to a doctor, I think it’ll be really helpful for you) to make sure you were okay and found out it wasn’t a miscarriage.
    It is actually true that you had a discharge, that it scared you and that you needed to see a doctor about it.. And then tell your manager that that’s more information than you’d ever want to share, but you pressured to do so.

  67. Anna*

    If someone asks you a question they don’t deserve the answer to, lying is okay. OP, this was a perfectly okay way to answer! Answering with a lie can sometimes complicate things but that’s on your rude, nosey manager, not on you.

  68. Walk on the Left Side*

    Adding another voice to the chorus of “I have had a miscarriage and I am completely ok with what you said in this situation, OP”.

    And mine started at work, in a meeting, which I had to leave to go get medical attention.

  69. Mgguy*

    In a perfect world, no one would ever lie, but we don’t live in a perfect world.

    In this particular situation, let’s say hypothetically the OP’s manager had come to them with “Why did you miss that meeting” and the OP immediately jumped-for whatever reason-to the untrue statement they made. That could potentially be problematic, and maybe a sign that the OP should look at revisiting therapy since they’ve known they have an issue in the past.

    In this particular case, the OP was figuratively-and perhaps literally from the way the situation si described-backed into a corner and held there until they gave a satisfactory answer. Even if that answer was untrue, I don’t think anyone could fault them for saying whatever it took to get out of that situation. We could come up with scenarios all day where it would be “okay” by our standards for a person feeling cornered to do this.

    I don’t think the OP did anything wrong, even if it maybe wasn’t the GREATEST answer. Still, though, on the whole I don’t see a problem as they needed something to get out and that’s what cane to mind for them.

    BTW, as a man, I will never experience a miscarriage first hand. With that said, my wife and I have never experience a miscarriage that we’re aware of(I can’t say 100% that there’s never been a chemical pregnancy, but I would lean toward probably not. We have, however, struggled with infertility, both primary and now secondary infertility. We now have an almost-2-year old conceived by IUI(miraculously on the first attempt ever, after leaving the clinic with a “probably won’t work” prognosis). We had 3 failed IUI cycles trying for the second, and my wife literally just had an IVF embryo transfer last week(and as I’m typing this I’m realizing I need to wake her up so I can go give her the daily progesterone shot before I leave for work). This is our first IVF cycle, and I know emotionally it’s going to be tough if it doesn’t work, especially because the work and stakes are so much higher for it than IUI.

    In any case, I know that’s NOT the same thing as a miscarriage but it’s also its own emotional roller coaster with I imagine some of the same emotions as miscarriage. And I’m saying all this to say

  70. Blue Pen*

    I don’t have much to add here that everyone else hasn’t already said, but I just want to say that this manager is absolutely wretched. Literally, what goes through someone’s mind when they’re being told their colleague had a private health emergency to then push and push and push for more details like that. It’s just disgusting behavior, and I’m so sorry the OP was subjected to that.

  71. Clymene*

    As someone who had a miscarriage, ended up sobbing in my managers office and STILL didn’t tell her what was going on, you are not in the wrong here. Your manager had absolutely no right to push you that hard and then to repeat it to someone else?? I’m furious for you. Alison was exactly right when she said you didn’t take anything away from anyone by claiming a miscarriage. I’m glad you’re going to get some help so you feel more in control, but please know you didn’t harm anyone by what you said. And your manager is an ass.

  72. Dry Now*

    OP, in case it is at all helpful, I once wet myself *out of nowhere* while driving to a job interview! I called to cancel the interview claiming I’d had a vomiting episode as I figured the literal truth was both too embarrassing to share and unnecessary.

  73. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

    OP, you were right to lie, because this awful boss went ahead and shared that medical information without your consent. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if you’d told her your actual medical emergency and she shared that instead.

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