I’m in trouble for re-sorting a coworker’s trash — and I’m enraged

by Alison Green on October 1, 2024

I’m off for a few days, so here’s an older post from the archives. This was originally published in 2019.

A reader writes:

I’ve worked at a medium sized tech company as a software engineer for the past two years now. Our city has an ordinance requiring all businesses to compost and recycle. I fully support this ordinance, as I’m a staunch environmentalist and care deeply about the future of our planet, for my sake and the sake of my children. I don’t want my kids growing up in a garbage covered wasteland.

For almost the entire time I’ve worked at this company, some anonymous employee(s) have been repeatedly tossing compostables and recyclables into our kitchen trash can, which sits right next to a compost bin and a recycle bin, with a giant sign posted in front of it showing what items belong in which bin.

The person/people who do this also have a nasty habit of leaving massive piles of unwashed dishes in our kitchen sink. It is not the responsibility of our coworkers or our janitorial service to clean these dishes after us and we are expected to clean after ourselves. There is even a giant sign posted over the sink requesting all employees to wash their own dishes.

I’m not the only person who is bothered by this, and several other coworkers and I have voiced our concerns to our office manager about it. Our office manager has been sympathetic and has organized numerous all-staff meetings where we went over these problems, asking everyone to be more mindful and to follow the directions posted in the kitchen.

Despite this, the people who do this continue doing it anyway. They don’t seem to care at all about the rules and they do pretty much whatever they please in our kitchen, leaving a big mess for others to clean up after them.

For the past two years, I’ve been voluntarily digging this person’s compostables and recyclables out of our trash bin and putting them in the recycling and compost. It’s pretty gross. I don’t enjoy doing it, but since no one else will do it, I do — for the sake of our planet. This issue is far bigger than the company and it has a lasting impact on the earth that will be felt by future generations long after we’re gone. It’s also against our city ordinance, and is just frankly a colossal jerk move.

I have no doubt that the person doing this is well aware of the nuisance they’re causing me and the other staff who actually care about this issue. They just don’t care.

About a year and a half ago, I decided that instead of putting their compost and recyclables into the compost or recycling bins where they probably wouldn’t even see it anyway, I’d leave them sitting on top of the bins so that the next time they step in the kitchen, they’ll be able to recognize their own trash and realize which bins it actually should have gone in. Unfortunately, they didn’t respond to that well. The very next morning after I did it the first time, I saw that this person threw all the recyclables and compostables I took out of the trash the previous day back into the trash bin, as if to say “F you.”

Well, I kept doing it anyway. A year and a half went by, we had several more all-staff meetings about the recycling and compost situation, and the problem persisted.

Then, just the other day, I was called into my manager’s office. He had our HR person on the phone, and she told me that she’d been getting complaints every day for a while now that I’d been taking recyclables and compostables out of the trash. She told me that the anonymous complainant claimed that they felt “offended” by my actions, and that they were now “scared” to use the kitchen because of me. I was astounded that anyone could be “offended” by someone trying to reduce unnecessary waste or feel “scared” because of some recyclables sitting on top of a bin. The HR person was totally unsympathetic to my situation even after i explained to her that this had gone on for almost two years, and ordered me to not touch the bins anymore.

This whole situation feels extremely bizarre to me. I never imagined that anyone would ever actually complain to HR about recyclables being taken out of a trash can and claim to feel “offended” and “scared” by it. I don’t see anything offensive or scary about what I did. I’m also pretty annoyed that someone actually went behind my back to whine to HR about what seems to me completely inoffensive and non-hostile behavior to get me in trouble instead of just confronting me directly like an adult. I find what they did to be incredibly petty and childish. I mean, really, over some garbage? If anyone should be offended, I think it should be me and all the other employees who have had to clean up after this person.

It’s also especially annoying considering I’ve done some really novel work for this company in the two years i’ve worked here. I’ve powered through an insane amount of projects that I don’t think any other developer here could have powered through at the speed that I did, while delivering on every requirement flawlessly. I haven’t been offered a single raise and am still being paid just slightly over minimum wage. I did a salary report online recently and it told me that I’m making less than 99% of the people in my field.

Am I wrong for feeling astounded and enraged by this incident? Am I really wrong for trying to protect our environment, clean up a huge mess left by some jerk who can’t follow simple directions every day, and keep our company compliant with our city ordinance?

Oh my goodness, you must let this go.

Yes, people should be putting their recyclables in the correct bin. And yes, they should be cleaning up after themselves in the kitchen. But they’re not, and it’s not your job to fix that.

You’ve gotten overly invested.

It wasn’t a great move to take it upon yourself to re-sort their garbage — that’s not your job. I understand that you’re doing it out of concern for the environment, but there are far bigger environmental crimes being committed all around you and you can’t solve all of them yourself. Moreover, I doubt your employer wants you spending your time that way while you’re at work.

But beyond that, it sounds like you got really invested in this at an emotional level that it really didn’t warrant. That report about someone being “scared” to use the kitchen sounds over the top without any more context, but your level of emotional investment/anger?/frustration over this may have legitimately rattled someone. The fact that the HR person didn’t find that claim ridiculous on its face makes me wonder if there is some context like that that makes it make more sense.

In any case, at this point your boss and HR have ordered you to stop, so you need to stop. Honestly, I’d be ordering you to stop too if I were in their shoes. This is just way more energy and drama than any employer wants on something like this. Feel free to be annoyed by how it was handled if you’d like, but being “enraged” is — again — way too strong a reaction.

There is something in your letter that you should find unacceptable though, and it has nothing to do with the recyclables. You’re being paid just slightly over minimum wage for work as a software engineer?! You’re making in the bottom 1% for your field. That’s not okay, and it’s a sign of a serious problem that you’ve been more focused on the recycling culprits than on changing your severely under-market wages.

In fact, your level of angst and agitation is so misplaced for both of these issues (way too high for the kitchen issues and way too low for the salary issue) that I’m wondering if there’s something more complicated going on … like do you feel powerless to find a better job, but the kitchen feels like something you can control so it’s getting all your energy? Something is out of whack here, and I’d take this as a nudge to figure out what’s going on — and to start looking for another job, one that will pay you what the market says your work is actually worth.

Read an update to this letter here.

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{ 223 comments }

{ 223 comments… read them below }

  1. TKC*

    I think I missed this letter the first time it was published, but boy does the update help color in some of the lines. It sounds like the kitchen issue may have been redirected frustration at an overall pretty bad working environment. When you’re in places that don’t value you, it’s easy to get hyper-focused on one disrespectful thing and end up missing the forest through the trees. I hope OP is in a better spot now.

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I always hoped OP got out of that situation before he damaged his career permanently. He was getting to the point where he refused to be in the same room with some coworkers, blamed everyone else for anything that went wrong. He was oblivious to the irony of stating that the “culprit” should have spoken to him about the trash “like an adult instead of going to HR,” about the person who spent paid time digging through the trash and stacking on the receptacles.
      I wonder if Covid had a silver lining of forcing OP to find a new job because this one had to be burned.

      1. Resume please*

        Also the irony of the LW wanting the mysterious coworker “to be an adult,” yet they thenselves avoided the kitchen, other employees, and HR in the update.

        I think there’s a lot more going on, including with the salary. Minimum wage, yet can’t afford to work anywhere else?

        1. Alexis Moira Rose*

          Agreed. They dig items out of the trash and place them visibly on the “correct” receptacle, specifically so the person recognizes that they put their trash in the wrong receptacle– isn’t this kind of passive aggressive behavior for someone who expects others to confront them verbally like an adult regarding things they are upset about?

          1. DE*

            From the language used in the initial letter, OP didn’t seem to know who was putting the trash in the wrong place. It possibly wasn’t even just one person.

          2. Starbuck*

            Yeah I don’t think there was any other communication option for the LW since it was a mystery who was doing it. I work somewhere that people are actually expected to get this stuff right, so I really feel for LW still. It was totally ridiculous to me that someone complained and that complaint was treated as valid, and not “oh, you’re admitting to being the one mis-sorting trash? Well, stop doing that and there will be no problem.”

            1. lexicat99*

              It might not have been the person mis-sorting trash that complained.

              The OP’s behaviour was making the lunch room unpleasant for everyone using it, including other people who were trying to recycle/compost properly. The complaint could very well have come from someone who would *like* to recycle/compost properly, but didn’t want to deal with trash on top of the receptacles every time they tried to put things in the proper bins.

              1. lexicat99*

                Posted too soon, sorry.

                “Someone is making the lunch room very unpleasant to use (by stacking trash on top of the receptacles)” is a legitimate complaint.

                And if complying with city regulations about recycling/composting is important to the company: “someone is making it harder to recycle/compost by leaving trash on top of the receptacles thus deterring others from recycling/composting” is also a legitimate complaint.

                I’m sympathetic to OP’s desire to be environmentally conscious, but they’re making being environmentally conscious harder for everyone else.

        2. MigraineMonth*

          From the update, it sounds like LW lived in one of the few affordable-ish parts of the Bay Area in California. I can see how that could leave you trapped if you didn’t want to move far: stay where you are with depressed wages, or move to an area with high salaries and astronomically high living expenses.

          I hope they were able to a better job that was either remote or in a lower-cost area of the country than Silicon Valley. Hopefully with a better-paid job that didn’t eat into their savings they were able to stop obsessing about every minor slight and perceived attack at work.

              1. Not all tech jobs*

                I didn’t see that the letter writer was living in Silicon Valley, so I’m genuinely curious as to why you made that assumption.

            2. Starbuck*

              It’s relative but yeah, there are definitely places that are less expensive than the rest. Parts of east bay, and then inland (it all depends where you draw the line for “bay area” as well). I knew people who’d commute in to the east bay from Livermore and Tracy.

              1. No. No, there aren't.*

                Well, “less expensive” is not quite the same as “affordable”, especially as (very generally) cities more inland have added costs in the form having to drive more, and drive further, and fewer options for shared living space (if you don’t make enough to rent or buy a house).

    3. ferrina*

      I don’t know. I was wondering about a lot of what OP was saying and I feel like something is being left out (either intentionally or unintentionally). OP seems upset about a lot, and I can’t tell if that’s the result of a toxic environment or of OP just being someone that gets upset at strange things. It’s also really odd that OP isn’t focusing on the bigger issue of being underpaid- yes, maybe there’s some projecting/avoidance going on, but at that point most people go all-in on trying to get out of there. Instead, in the update OP gets mad at HR for *checks notes* making small talk, is paranoid about going into the kitchen because someone “went behind their back to HR”, and spends one sentence talking about their job search (they can’t afford to leave, even though in the next sentence they say that they are dipping into their savings to stay there).
      I just feel like we’re not seeing the whole story.

      1. Tippy*

        Agree. Based on the original letter and the update I tend to think that LW may not be the most objective in the whole situation.

        1. H3llifIknow*

          Yeah like the whole “HR tries to be friendly and it makes me nervous so I avoid that area of the office now too” (loosely paraphrased), was so … weird to me. HR seems to be letting the LW know that this situation did NOT color their perspective of him/her as an employee and the LW got all paranoid about it?? I think the LW needs to talk to someone. Their baggage doesn’t all fit in the overhead compartment.

          1. Mongrel*

            There’s a lot of, what I call, petulant compliance in the letters “You told me to stop doing x so just to be sure I’m not going to do Y either otherwise I’ll just get punished again”, it’s never a good look from anyone.

        2. Yadah*

          Yea, agreed. It’s hard not to wonder how their coworkers would describe the situation.
          If LW wasn’t able to accept that their behaviour wasn’t appropriate and the one thing they learned was that HR “really, REALLY are not your friends!” I have a hard time taking their assessment of everything else at face value.

          1. LNZ*

            the HR part is what kinda shocked me with the update, like OP didn’t even get in trouble they were just forced to stop wasting their time digging through the trash and boom HR is now considered a threat to them for some reason

          2. So they all cheap ass-rolled over and one fell out*

            Ironically, HR (or whatever part of the company sets salaries) is NOT lw’s friend, but not for the reason they think!

          3. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

            Yes, the original letter and the update definitely left me with some questions about what the LW is like to work with. As Alison has said before, being a basic amount of nice is a tacit expectation of just about any job. The reaction to HR – refusing to engage in any conversation at all, after what sounds like a pretty reasonable meeting – suggests that the LW is not consistently being a basic amount of nice at work. And I say this as a person who also sometimes gets overly fixated on stuff and would be annoyed that my coworkers are being jerks about recycling. And who was once caught by a faculty member being grumpy and throwing out rancid food from the communal fridge in grad school.

        3. Sarah*

          Yup. Definitely an unreliable narrator.

          OP is/was unhinged. I read the update thinking maybe OP had gotten some perspective.

          Nope.

          OP has reported the company to the city’s code compliance department regarding the employer’s “noncompliance with the city’s recycling ordinance.”

          OP also thinks that the company is going out of its way to sabotage OP’s work.

          Color me shocked that OP has a hard time getting a better job. They’re “that coworker” and should probably consider themselves lucky they have a job at all. Yikes!

          1. Another Academic Librarian too*

            You took the words right out of my mouth. Yikes is right. OP needs professional help and I hope they get it.

          2. MBK*

            Yep. The update makes it crystal clear that the LW has a *very* different sense of the scope of their job and responsibilities than their employer does. This sounds to me like someone who steps all over other people’s work and then gets mad when those other people object (or just put things back the way they were before LW changed them). The whole “offsite IT” part clinches it.

          3. Sleve*

            This whole episode has 18 irrelevant paragraphs and one vital sentence (in the update):

            I am actually losing savings every month now just trying to pay my rent and bills.

            Financial duress has caused many a hinge to lose its pins. Therapy starts to lose its effectiveness when the patient is haemorrhaging money just trying to stay alive. Hopefully 4 years later this person is now in a financially stable situation.

          4. Nebula*

            Yeah, I really feel sorry for them, because I bet if they had some time away from that workplace to recover some of their marbles, they would be able to find a better job, but probably all this resentment was coming across in their applications (on top of the difficulty finding jobs in tech, which no longer grow on trees, I’m aware). Been there, done that, it really becomes a vicious cycle where you’re convinced that it’s impossible to get a better job, so you resent your employer more and more, and recognise your own strengths and achievements less and less. I hope they managed to get out, one way or another.

          5. Productivity Pigeon*

            Yeah, I was very sad to read the update.

            It seems LW really dug their feet in on precisely the wrong issues.

            I too have a hard time seeing how anyone would hire them when they’re in this mindset. I’m sure it bleeds out into the rest of LW’s life.

      2. Seashell*

        I’m all for recycling, but engaging in any sort of behavior with your co-workers’ trash for a year and a half, rather than using your words or letting it go, isn’t something I would find innocuous, as described by OP. I would find it to be the actions of someone who struggles to deal normally with others.

        1. AcademiaNut*

          Ooof, I missed that the first time. That response shows a very volatile and aggressive approach to the world in general, and quite honestly, the kind of person where I’d want to go through HR, or at least have a witness with me, if I wanted to address an issue with them.

          The irony is that the LW could take a fraction of the effort they’ve spent on the trash issue and apply it to volunteering with an environmental cause, which would would have actually had a positive impact in the world.

          1. Productivity Pigeon*

            I didn’t get that impression from the comment but I DEFINITELY got that vibe from the update.

        2. Darury*

          This line feels like the OP was very junior person since most of us come to realize it sooner or later: “I’m basically just an expendable asset to them”

          That’s going to be the case for any employer. They are not your friends, they are exchanging your skills for a paycheck.

      4. londonedit*

        Yeah, the whole ‘I don’t go to the kitchen anymore since I don’t feel welcome’ seems like quite the overreaction, along with the ‘I don’t trust anyone’ and ‘I’m walking on eggshells’ stuff. I also don’t know whether the OP was just in a completely toxic environment that genuinely was that awful, or whether they’d for whatever reason developed some sort of persecution complex and convinced themselves that everyone was out to get them.

        I have to say the way they talk about the whole bin issue in the original letter here is also quite extreme – they’ve invested a LOT into this and in the grand scheme of things it’s really not something that warrants that sort of level of angst. Yes, it’s annoying when people don’t put their rubbish in the right bins. But it does not rise to the level of embarking on a personal crusade to sort your colleagues’ rubbish. I can also totally see why their colleagues were scared to use the kitchen and scared to use the bins – I would be, if there was a self-appointed bin monitor waiting to tell me off if I accidentally threw the wrong bit of rubbish in the wrong bin!

        1. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          I think both of those things could be true. That workplace could very well be toxic and the LW could totally be treated poorly there. And also, they’re not doing themselves any favours with their behaviour, like refusing to even speak to the HR rep and (I’m guessing) being weird to their colleagues.

    4. Potsie*

      Yeah. There were so many issues that were completely out of control that she latched onto the recycling as something that was within her power to fix and got irrationally angry when she was told that even that was something she could not do. I really hope she managed to get a different job when everything went remote.

      1. SirHumphreyAppleby*

        is this an everybody loves raymond reference? I just watched the can opener episode recently

    1. Paint N Drip*

      Yes, this one sticks in my head. I’m a very emotional person who can get caught up in my feelings instead of logic – I can see myself getting tangled in this web if other things in my life were feeling out of control, and I just empathize so much with the OP. The update made it worse… felt like HR took away their coping mechanisms (which is what HR should have done, not arguing that at all) and they were on a path to self-destruction.

      1. MsSolo (UK)*

        Oooh, yes, took away their coping mechanisms absolutely nails it. People can really latch on to self-soothing behaviours that fall into weird patterns (including actions that make them feel worse after the initial hit, or feel a different negative emotion to the one they’re trying to avoid) and it’s incredibly hard to break those cycles. Taking the option to perform those behaviours away doesn’t solve the underlying problem – even if you solve the underlying financial stress here, LW would still need a healthier coping mechanism before another stress emerges in their life – which is why LW ends up spiralling here.

    2. New laptop who dis*

      I’m all for recycling, too, but sometimes I can’t decide which of the bins my thing belongs in.

      As a default I always go to TRASH because if I put something that cannot be recycled into a recycling bin, it could contaminate the rest of that recycling load, causing it ALL to be thrown out.

      That’s a far better solution than just wish-cycling everything into the recycling bin and hoping for the best.

      I’d be super annoyed if I found that trash sitting out on the counter later because somebody sanctimoniously picked through the bin and was trying to shame me. Get a life!

      1. Olive*

        This is also kitchen waste too recyclable materials with food or grease on them generally shouldn’t go into the recycling bin. There are some containers that can be washed out, but many that really can’t.

        And we’ve learned that a lot of sorted recycling goes into the landfill anyway, which isn’t to say that we shouldn’t make any efforts toward conservation, but that policing individuals in the kitchen isn’t the right place to make a change regardless.

        1. Zoe Karvounopsina*

          One of the reasons I got a hot composter was that I could shred old pizza boxes and put them in the compost sans guilt.

          Then the pizza place started putting foil on the inside and I shook my fist impotently.

    3. Jeanine*

      Why is it bizarre? It’s tiresome when people pay no attention to the rules posted RIGHT THERE for all to see. I worked in a place once where there were clearly marked recycle bins and people insisted on putting trash in there, paying no attention to the sign. They also had to put signs in the bathroom to not flush trash down the toilet so that tells the caliber of the people working there.

      1. blue rose*

        It’s definitely bizarre that the LW steamrolled past all direction from HR/managers to the detriment of their relationships with coworkers/managers/HR, and the detriment of their own mental well-being. Adding to the strangeness, the LW is overworked and underpaid, but is prioritizing the office recycling over their own livelihood. Even in the update, they’re still ultra-focused on the office recycling, even though their career prospects remain pretty grim.

      2. Allonge*

        It’s bizarre because OP took trash out of the bins and left it on top for months. This is not about the environment or the rules, it’s an obsession that helps nobody and creates a pretty disgusting-sounding environment.

      3. Sleve*

        It’s bizarre because the person is displaying extreme levels of duress and anxiety – due to the financial situation revealed in the update – but they’re attributing their constant background feeling of *ohshitohshitohshitpanicpanicpanic* to the recycling and HR. It’s a total overreaction to the mild annoyance it was attributed to, that only makes sense after you get the additional context.

      4. londonedit*

        It’s bizarre because most people’s reaction would be to sigh and tut and think ‘Why can no one around here manage to put their rubbish in the right bin?’. And that would be it. Of course it’s annoying, but a healthy and normal reaction would be to briefly think ‘FFS’ and then go on with your day. Taking it upon oneself to a) take things out of the rubbish to re-sort them, and b) passive-aggressively leave items on top of the bins as some sort of ‘SEE WHAT YOU DID’ message, and then c) carry on doing so when you’ve been asked not to because you’re making your colleagues feel intimidated is not a healthy reaction to a minor annoyance.

        1. UKDancer*

          Yeah there are many minor annoyances in life and in the office. People can be quite irritating when you have to live with them in close proximity.

          What the OP did was completely out of proportion to what happened. It’s fine to be annoyed by this but this isn’t the appropriate way to respond.

      5. SearchLight*

        It’s bizarre because the reaction was so disproportionate, irrational and excessive. Sure, you can be annoyed that some people cannot follow instructions, you roll your eyes if you must – but then you get over it, because you are a grown adult. You do not start a multi-year passive aggressive campaign that only exists in your head over it, because that is ridiculous.

      6. Irish Teacher.*

        Did you read the update? I could kinda see the LW’s perspective on this one but when you read the updates, both the “official” one and the reply in the comments, they no longer trust anybody in their workplace and avoid the kitchen because one person reported them for something, they are “constantly walking on eggshells” in case they inadvertently do something that leads to an “unpleasant conversation,” they see HR as the enemy and feel offended or threatened by the HR person making small talk with them after this, they seem to think their city is unreasonable for not acting on their complaining the company (for the actions of one or two people) and the think all the commenters here are probably as irresponsible as the person who doesn’t recycle because people disagreed with them.

        It’s just…a series of massive overreactions and as others have said, while when I read this, I think the person who complained was over the top – feeling threatened because somebody was passive aggressive about their failure to recycle? – having seen the LW’s reactions in general, I wonder if they came across as angry, perhaps making comments about how “I have to resort the trash of SOME LAZY PERSON.”

  3. ferrina*

    Wow. This is….something. Something that isn’t really adding up. Just over minimum wage for a software engineer? The company is (in the update) supposedly going out of their way to sabotage OP? OP complained to the city about their coworkers not sorting recyclables and composting from trash? And in the update OP is offended/uncomfortable with HR trying to make small talk?

    I can’t help but think that next OP is going to be complaining about someone not composting the remains of their cheap ass rolls.

    1. TooTiredToThink*

      I’m not the least bit surprised about his salary. Awhile back I was looking at jobs and this one ad was clearly targeting immigrants and was only paying $35K* a year for a senior software admin. I both laughed and was super angry because I knew they were being taken advantage of. That’s only $16 an hour and in 2020 the minimum wage in California was apparently $13. That, to me is “barely” above minimum wage for a white-collar job.

      *I live in the DC area – a similar job at 75K would be on the low end of acceptable.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Visa considerations REALLY tend to limit a job search, wonder if that’s part of the issue

    2. Dancing Otter*

      I wondered if OP was calculating effective hourly rate based on a lot of unpaid overtime (exempt). That’s the only way it makes any sense to me.

      Good luck to them looking for a new job. Sounds like they’re doing everything in their power to cement a reputation as a troublemaker. Surely, no one at that company is going to give them a good reference, and deservedly so.

      1. LNZ*

        Given how unreliable they are in the rest of the narration, I could totally see that is where they got the idea they are being paid pennies.

    3. MigraineMonth*

      I got the impression that maybe they weren’t hired with the software engineer title, but maybe ended up working as one as things got added to their plate over time?

      I got curious, so I looked it up. California’s minimum wage of $11-12 for standard 40-hours per week and 52 weeks would have been $22,880 – 24,960 in 2019. Minimum exempt salary in 2019 was $49,920 if you had more than 25 employees, and $45,760 otherwise.

  4. Not on board*

    I would love another update from the OP as the update was a little depressing as well. The anger and hostility really radiates from the OP and was probably somewhat sabotaging their efforts to find a new job. The anger/hostility is honestly justified but not helping them.
    I really hope they were able to move on and thrive in another position.

    1. sacados*

      Yeah, there was a lot of stuff in the update (oh okay, I guess I just won’t ever go in the kitchen ever again since I’m NOT WELCOME) that made me wonder a bit about potential “missing reasons.” Or it’s entirely possible that this was just an example of how being stuck in a toxic environment can poison your work persona and drive you to things you would never normally do (like that person who bit their coworker).
      Either way tho, I do hope OP moved on to something better eventually.

      1. hiraeth*

        Yes, I could never quite buy that this LW was a reliable narrator. Some seriously outsized reactions and overblown interpretations of what was going on (yes, HR did ask you to stop doing something, it doesn’t mean they’re now your mortal enemy and any friendly overtures are to be deeply mistrusted. Yes, we are facing environmental disaster and also your coworkers should recycle, but they are not thereby single-handedly responsible for said disaster). I hope LW found their way to a healthier place and a sense of perspective.

        1. Cat Woman*

          I was more convinced of the OP’s unreliability by the description of their work – “while delivering on every requirement flawlessly”.

          1. RVA Cat*

            This. Reminds me of some Captain Awkward letters where the boyfriend wields his “environmental concerns” as a means of control.

            Lordy this person needs therapy.

              1. Boof*

                Oooo yes the one where the “only” management for her boyfriends depression was to make her “environmental footprint” (herself really) smaller and smallere

                3. Boof*

                  I put a link in the other comments, but the quote ” There is more environmental activism on heaven and earth than the kind that maximally inconveniences and annoys your [strike] spouse [/strike] coworker” is gold here!

      2. Turquoisecow*

        Yeah and it didn’t feel like they had really read the response to their original letter? Like there was a lot in there but not a lot of introspection or worrying about their salary, it seemed more like paranoia and hurt feelings. I hope OP is doing better now but I feel like they probably need more help than an internet advice column can give, but are not self-aware enough to realize that.

    2. ferrina*

      Yeah, I wouldn’t hire OP. The kitchen drama alone would make it not worth it- this is a person that doesn’t know how to let go. In the update, OP says that they’ve been avoiding the kitchen, but also filed a complaint with the city about the composting. There is no acknowledgement of how they are escalating the situation.

      1. Yadah*

        Same, if this is how intense they get about a (valuable) but fairly innocuous situation can you imagine try to get them to change or edit some of their work that they think is perfect as-is?

        I worked with a designer like this once, he made a literal power point presentation to my boss (completely unprompted) about how a note I gave him on a billboard was “bad design” and he shouldn’t have to address the note.
        The edit I gave him? The date/time tune in info (for a new show!) wasn’t visible and it needed to be more prominently placed so people driving by could see it at a glance. He threw a hissy fit over being told “Tuesdays 8pm ET” needed to be easily legible.

        The attitude went unchecked and within a year I was the only person at the company that would work with him.

    3. Princess Pumpkin Spice*

      This is one of those letters that I really want an update / where are they now from, but doubt we’ll ever get. The update to this letter really shows that OP was struggling with a lot, both in and out of work. I hope they made the changes they needed, for their sake.

    4. Crest*

      I’m not sure I’d want an update from this letter writer even after all this time. Between the original 2019 letter, the comment(s) left LW in that letter, AND the “height of COVID lockdown” update letter they sent in, I have a feeling this LW is on a list somewhere. On a government server. That is a 3-letter acronym specializing in law enforcement.

      And if they aren’t on that list already, then they should be because everything in the original letter, their follow up comments, and their update, was basically a case study from the “workplace violence” chapters of Gift of Fear.

    5. Princess Sparklepony*

      I’m a little worried that any update would be coming from a locked ward at Camarillo…. (now since closed but when I was a kid it was the signifier for a mental hospital…) The OP sounds so on the edge of reason.

  5. I don't work in this van*

    If someone was passive-aggressively putting my trash on top of the heap *every day,* uh… yeah, I think I would be kind of scared and offended by that.

    1. Rainy*

      I thought when I first read this letter, and now again, that the LW seems like exactly the kind of person who “hope-cycles” and “wish-posts” rather than recycling and composting. A lot of people *want* to recycle or compost something that they think should be recyclable or compostable, and end up ruining entire loads of recyclables or compostables because they insist on putting things that aren’t actually recyclable or compostable in the bins.

      When you talk to people who do that, they say that it should be and they’re just showing the city or the contractor everything that could be recycled/composted if they were trying harder or whatever, but in practice it just ends in even more stuff going to landfills than if they’d stick to the rules. Of course it’s possible that the LW was actually pulling out eligible items, but having dealt with people before who are this insistent, a lot of times the stuff they pull out of the trash *is* trash–like cardboard or paper with grease or food on it, plastic that is marked with a recycle symbol but the number is a number your local facilities can’t handle, etc.

      I don’t know if I’d be scared but I would be a little offended especially if I knew I was following the rules and the person chiding me wasn’t, and I definitely wouldn’t stop what I was doing!

    2. Jeanine*

      Instead of being offended why not put the stuff where it belongs? Why is that so hard for people to do?

      1. blue rose*

        Why not abide by the direction of HR and management? Failing that, if the working conditions remain untenable, why not seek out other employment, at a different type of workplace? LW already posed your question “Why is that so hard for people to do?” and HR and management answered that it’s not a priority and to return to the work for which LW is paid. Sure, you can go on about it in the AAM comment section, but the authority at LW’s workplace won’t read it, and they already asserted their position on the matter.

        1. amoeba*

          But they did, didn’t they? From what I get from the letter, the previous meetings etc. were not about their behaviour, but about the fact that people didn’t recycle. After the meeting with HR, they stopped, according to the update. Not graciously or anything, sure, but they complied.

          1. blue rose*

            Initially, they didn’t, which is what led to this mess to begin with, and what I was referring to. Also, as you note, the update was not gracious, and I consider the deleterious impact on the LW’s well-being to be largely self-inflicted. Sometimes LWs are advised that they must not care more about their work than the boss, since effective change requires buy-in at the top. In this case, the LW is caring way more about non-work than the higher-ups, so of course the employer isn’t getting invested in the non-work. Same principle applies though, made even more futile for LW’s efforts because this literally isn’t a business concern for the employer.

            Also, I was responding to Jeanine’s comment. Granted, hard to tell over toneless internet text, but it felt to me like you replied to me as if I said that in a contextless vacuum.

      2. Lochel’s bakery is the worst*

        And like others have pointed out: it is stupidly easy to contaminate an entire bin of recyclables with one “bad” item. So if I’m not 100 percent sure if something sure if something is recyclable, I’m putting it in the general trash bin. Yes some places have signs up with pictures and instructions about what can be recycled and what can’t, clearly labeled containers, etc. That still can’t account for every random piece of #10 plastic or whatever. People like the LW are why I error the side of “heck no” and wind up throwing something like a paper straw wrapper, cardboard sleeve, and maybe even a piece of random paper into the regular trash because darned if you do, darned if you don’t.

        And in keeping with the theme of “others have already pointed this out”
        The LW’s boss AND the company HR both said to knock it off. So the only course of action is to…knock it off. Or quit. Or be fired. And is that seriously the reason you want to be FIRED for??? Not theft, not egregiously poor performance, not slugging Ted from Marketing… but because of insubordination AND harassment via garbage-picking?? Oh honey no.

        It’s a software company, not a garbage/recycling company. That is why it is more important to focus on that than “putting stuff where it belongs,” Jeanine (aka LW)

        1. blah*

          If you read the update to the original letter, LW did knock it off after the meeting with HR.

          Also weird to accuse Jeanine of being LW (does that make you the coworker who complained??).

      3. I don't work in this van*

        It sounded like the person was never directly told why LW was doing this, aside from general “please recycle” in staff meetings. They may have been completely unaware that they were doing something wrong, or, as others have pointed out, the things weren’t actually recyclable, or (as has happened in at least 3 places I’ve worked), the person knew that the trash and recycle bins were combined at the end of the work day anyway, so why bother.

  6. I should really pick a name*

    I’ve got a lot of side-eye for all-staff meetings about the actions of one person.

    1. Antilles*

      I agree, though I will leave space for the office originally not knowing who it was and/or not realizing it was just one person. If OP was really removing ALL the recyclables from the trash can, that could potentially be a decent amount of trash. Enough so that it’d be a reasonable first assumption that it could be an office-wide problem. For example, somebody accidentally left their trash on top, then another person follows suit and it just snowballs. Or maybe that people just see it as the norm because it happens every day.
      Even if you grant that though, the office deserves tons of side eye for letting it go on for two years. Once, yeah, do an office-wide meeting assuming that it’s an office-wide problem, fine. But after that? Even in the disgusting hellscape of office kitchens, one meeting should have been plenty, so once that first meeting didn’t solve it, management absolutely should have been like “okay, we gotta dig deeper here and figure out what’s up”.

      1. Hats Are Great*

        Used to have a coworker who removed things he had DECIDED were recyclable from the trash to put in the recycling bins, and no amount of explaining to him that THESE things recycle locally and THOSE things don’t, including posting multiple copies of the recycling company’s helpful pictures near every recycling bin, could convince him otherwise. I’m sure our recyclables were generally dumped as trash because it wasn’t just removing “one or two” non-recyclable items, but half a bin.

        A particular hobbyhorse was pizza boxes, where the tops were recyclable if clean, but the bottoms were not because the grease. He kept insisting they were recyclable because they were cardboard despite the sign from the recycling company saying otherwise, and putting them in recycling.

        1. Unkempt Flatware*

          We get audited and fined in my city for disposing incorrectly into the recycle bins. I’d be so irritated.

        2. Cat Tree*

          Yeah, I was thinking the same thing but it’s so minor compared to the rest of the situation.

          Lots of people have good intentions about recycling but are overzealous with it. We have signs at work to not recycle anything smaller than an credit card, but I routinely see those tiny post-its. I also see a fair amount of food-soiled items including used napkins. People rarely rinse beverage containers and I’ve even seen half-full fountain drink cups. Of course I don’t dig through and remove these items though.

        3. Norm Peterson*

          I hope this LW never comes to the Midwest, where recycling facilities are few and far between. Even I, who does save it up to take to a drop off site, has started sometimes tossing things. And we have no place to take glass…

        4. EchoGirl*

          I know certain types of plastic bags/packaging are an issue in some places. Like, they’ll say they’re recyclable, but you have to take them to a designated site, you can’t just throw them in a standard recycling bin. It confused even me at first.

        5. Antilles*

          Recycling pizza boxes is actively counterproductive. Why? Because the grease from the boxes will get onto other items in the recycling bin or during the sorting process. This contaminates those other items and makes them useless, so you turn items that could have been recycled into trash.
          Depending on how greasy the pizza box is, a single pizza box can potentially contaminate an entire bag of otherwise recyclable stuff.

          1. Princess Sparklepony*

            I just learned the other day that lightly oily pizza boxes are recyclable in my area. If it’s got cheese on it or is totally soaked, it’s a no but some grease spots are ok. It all depends on the area I guess.

      2. Turquoisecow*

        And how much time are they spending on sorting through the trash to take items out, instead of working on the job they’re being paid to do? If I walked into the kitchen and saw someone one taking items out of the trash and recycling bins and spending a lot of time on it, and saw them doing this every day, or multiple times a day? I might be a little anxious about going in the kitchen also, even if it wasn’t my trash I was putting in there.

        1. TQB*

          Don’t you feel like there was probably an amount of muttering under her breath whilst she was doing it, also? “These stupid careless idiots are killing the planet, I hate them….” Yeah, sounds a bit scary.

          1. Crest*

            And a lot of slamming of stuff down too, too. You know this wasn’t being done quietly. Major performative martyrdom happening.

    2. amoeba*

      “I’m not the only person who is bothered by this, and several other coworkers and I have voiced our concerns to our office manager about it. Our office manager has been sympathetic and has organized numerous all-staff meetings where we went over these problems, asking everyone to be more mindful and to follow the directions posted in the kitchen.”

      I don’t think the meetings were about LW’s behavious, rather the opposite – about people not recycling correctly/following directions.

  7. Varthema*

    Also hoping that the LW is faring better than at the update. Fingers crossed that the shift to remote work was helpful! not only did it expand employment markets for people, but I also love how I’m not at all passively irked by my coworkers. All I can judge them on is their work output, not their trash habits or their lunchtime conversation, and this is probably one of the great unsung benefits of remote work!

    1. FunkyMunky*

      omg right? I’m getting flashbacks of a certain coworker (our legal no less!) who didn’t use a filter when brewing drip coffee. the mess that created!

  8. DVM*

    Wow. They had multiple meetings where the topic of trash-sorting was addressed. It makes me crazy when there are full-staff meetings where reoccurring issues caused by one person are brought up. Just address it with the one person causing the problems and quit wasting everyone else’s time/causing them to unnecessarily question and stress out about things they aren’t even doing wrong.

    1. Lisa*

      That was definitely a … decision. It sounds like everybody knew who was doing it, but instead of talking to that person, nobody was willing to do that. I know a lot of IT workplaces fall into the Geek Fallacies, and this could be that sort of case. That typically means there’s a lot of other dysfunction, which from the update sounds to be true in general.

      But the LW also seems to be opting for unhealthy ways to deal with their issues. Hopefully they’ve learned better how to deal with negative emotions and situations in a better way since this letter and its update!

    2. kiki*

      So I’m not sure if the workplace was certain who wasn’t abiding by the trash rules— it sounds like LW felt that it was probably one person but I don’t know if they were actually certain or had evidence to support that accusation. The comment on the OG post from the LW and update make me think they might be projecting actions and intentions onto individuals without supporting evidence.

      1. UKDancer*

        Yeah I mean I don’t know how you’d know who wasn’t sorting the rubbish. I mean my office has recycling bins in the coffee points and a few more for paper around the floor and no bins by desks. Unless you’re there at the time someone is throwing stuff out or it has their name on you wouldn’t know who from the floor threw what out. So I don’t know how you would be able to identify specific culprits unless people have individual bins.

      2. Elsajeni*

        Yeah, specifically the fact that they attributed dishes left in the sink to the same “culprit” as the recycling in the wrong bin — I think it’s pretty unlikely that there is one person who is responsible for all kitchen evils! Much more likely that everyone sometimes has a lapse of attention, or can’t remember which numbered plastics the recycling accepts, or leaves a dish in the sink meaning to come back and wash it later, or… etc., but the particular way the OP has fixated on these issues leads them to interpret it as One Person, My Nemesis, Who Is Doing Everything Wrong On Purpose.

    4. Princess Sparklepony*

      Although if they don’t know who the offender is, how else can they get the word out? And it may be more than one.

  9. Gustavo*

    WOW LW, you need to grow up honestly. You are acting like a child by literally pulling trash out and setting it out for everyone to have to deal with. You also are mad the person didn’t confront you personally but 1. You have yet to do the same and 2. You sound like you may be very reactive. You are using company time to sort trash and are now enraged that you were told to stop being passive aggressive and do your job instead. Someone else’s garbage is out of your scope of control so stop it. I get that you’re wanting to save the world but this isn’t the way.

    I agree with Allison that the reason HR didn’t find the anonymous complaint a bit ridiculous is because there is likely some missing context that points to you as a problem in the office.

  10. Boss Scaggs*

    Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, but is it possible to include the links to the original letters in these posts? They’re there on the five questions, but not on the other posts. Not sure if there’s an AAM “suggestion box”

    1. Hlao-roo*

      If you click on the link to the update at the bottom of the post, the update has a link to the original post. Also, for these reprints the titles are the same so if you copy/paste the title into the search bar the original post will come up.

      Not as easy as the direct links the short answer posts have, but not too time-consuming either.

  11. NotBatman*

    If there is one thing I’ve learned from AAM, it’s that making a mistake at work is FAR less telling than your response to being told you made a mistake.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      I read that somewhere as a general rule for life, that what says who you are isn’t whether or not you mess up; everybody does. It’s not even how badly you mess up because there are all kinds of factors that affect that, like at work an otherwise competent person might mess up because they were very stressed about a health scare or there are certain neuroatypicalities that can cause people to be more likely to mess up in certain ways.

      But what really tells what you are like is how you react to being called out on it. Do you apologise and try to do better or do you double-down or try and blame somebody else or play the victim (well, now I’m upset because you criticised me, so clearly I am the real victim here (I think this LW falls into that a bit)).

  12. Antilles*

    I really hope OP is in a better job and a better place mentally, because both this and the update feel way over the top. It’s very much a case where OP is angry over the situation and trying to focus on one super-tiny irrelevant aspect he can control rather than facing the reality that the overall situation is a disaster.
    On a less direct scale, I also hope at some point OP has decided to use their passion for environmentalism in a way that really matters. First off, the blunt reality is that most ‘recycling’ still ends up in landfills anyways, for various reasons, so even on the ‘trash’ related side, that would be a way more productive use of time. But on the much bigger picture, the impact of a single office’s trash being sorted/not-sorted isn’t even remotely a blip on the radar compared to the environmental damage done by major corporations and polluting industries. Putting your energies and passion towards addressing that is a far more important way of helping future generations than hassling over whether your co-worker put a pizza box in the trash can or recycling.

    1. Aaak it's Cathy*

      I was wondering where the OPs seeming obsession with the environment stems from and if could they be better suited working in an industry that aligns with their apparent core values. IT, software engineering, and programming all align with one of the biggest polluting industries, tech. The amount of pollution that server farms put off isn’t going to be offset by two years of their co-worker’s yogurt cups and banana peels.

      1. learnedthehardway*

        Eh – I’m reminded of the story out of Japan where the sanitation worker started attacking people who had sorted trash and recyclables incorrectly. Might be an urban legend, of course, but some people really shouldn’t be in charge of other people’s trash.

  13. Kelly*

    I once had a really lovely coworker who spent time each week digging through the filthy garbage to get out compostable items. She kept a compost bucket (a container of rotting garbage, essentially) under the kitchen sink. It stunk and drew flies. Watching her dig through the trash was disgusting. People’s used tissues and napkins, and god knows what else, are in that garbage! It made us all very uncomfortable. Management had repeated meetings with her but she couldn’t stop. This was definitely some kind of compulsion for her. Again, this was an otherwise lovely, capable person. Eventually management made a rule that she had to get rid of the compost bucket. I sat directly opposite the kitchen so I witnessed all of this very odd behavior. I just want to verify that the letter writer is not alone, but there are better ways to help the planet than policing the garbage at your office. I feel like this process gives the person an illusion of control over climate change, and I definitely understand feeling panicked about climate change.

      1. Czhorat*

        I’d usually agree, but OP is clearly – as Allison said – DEEPLY overinvested in the trash issue and has taken it to the level of extreme paranoia about the workplace as a whole. The tone of the original letter and the update is not the writing of someone in a healthy emotional state.

        I really feel bad for this LW, but they were very clearly their own worst enemy.

        1. Dahlia*

          So comment on their behaviours, on them being deeply invested, on them sounding paranoid, but armchair diagnosing is both rude and against the commenting rules.

      2. Boof*

        I’d say “mental health episode” is so vague as to not be speculating – it covers everything from ingrained bad behaviors (things that benefit from cognitive behavior therapy/counseling to basically mentally reprogram oneself) to various biochemical imbalances that probably require medications (ie, bipolar, etc). I don’t think there was any specific diagnosis suggested just that they are in a bad place mentally / sounded pretty miserable

    2. Captain Hastings*

      After reading the update, I almost feel guilty about reading this. I hope this person is okay somehow.

  15. GenX, PhD, Enters the Chat*

    It’s ironic, don’t you think, that LW is calling their coworkers petty and childish?

    LW has a bit of a persecution complex. They sound really, really difficult to be around.

  16. DivergentStitches*

    I don’t think the letter writer agreed with Alison because he still calls it an “innocuous thing” where she’d specifically told him to knock it off and why.

    1. Ellis Bell*

      That was the oddest part to me. They just continued with their original rant in the update as though Alison hadn’t said anything about letting it go.

  17. M*

    I work for an environmental engineering firm. People have lots of ideas about what they can do to help the environment, and unfortunately while yes it is generally a good idea to recycle, use less water, compost where you can, etc—the truth is even if everyone one the planet was doing this in their homes, it wouldn’t matter much. I have hardcore environmentalist/vegan/composting friends who can’t understand that it’s really almost completely out of their hands/control.

    The best thing you can do for the environment is to vote in local elections and most people don’t bother doing that.

    1. amoeba*

      Eh. I agree that recycling is a pretty insignificant part of the picture, but stuff like eating less meat, flying less, taking public transportation instead of driving, getting an electric car etc. make a HUGE difference. And yes, one person doing or not doing it doesn’t change much, sure. That’s why there’s the need for better laws regulating our behaviour. But especially in the traffic sector (one of the largest!) it’s indeed mostly the sum of individual behaviours that makes the difference and saying “oh, it’s all the big corporations” while flying out every month for a weekend beach trip or driving every short distance within the city with your Diesel SUV certainly doesn’t help anybody.

      1. George Costanza*

        “I estimate probably around 50 pounds of recycling and compost has been dumped in our ever-growing landfills”

        Oh no!

        Anyway…

        1. LNZ*

          the way that’s not even a drop in the bucket for even a small landfill is kind of the perfect metaphor for OP freaking out over nothing

      2. HelloBonjour*

        OP reminds me of the “I told my interviewer I never make mistakes” letter. The following paragraph sounds like what “the guy who never make mistake” could’ve written:

        “I’ve powered through an insane amount of projects that I don’t think any other developer here could have powered through at the speed that I did, while delivering on every requirement flawlessly.”

        The comments from OP back in 2019 reinforce my belief.

        The OPs from both letters thought, either by comments or follow-up letter, they did everything right and other folks were wrong. They had a strong black-and-white thinking. They put the energy and described in glorious details to justify their thinking and actions.

        Honestly, there were many OP-like people in tech 20-30 years ago. Nowadays, the companies are less likely than before to promote folks who fail to work with other people effectively. What OP wrote in the same paragraph is alarming:

        “I haven’t been offered a single raise and am still being paid just slightly over minimum wage. I did a salary report online recently and it told me that I’m making less than 99% of the people in my field.”

        1. Crest*

          “ I haven’t been offered a single raise and am still being paid just slightly over minimum wage. I did a salary report online recently and it told me that I’m making less than 99% of the people in my field.”

          Okay I have always had SO many questions about that part of all this! They were supposedly churning out flawless results at lightning speed—but not once getting a raise—while also being so obsessed with picking through the trash that multiple people noticed and HR and their boss had to tell them to shut the (redacted) up about it, once and for all??? So how did they have the time or energy to do all that?? And if they had all that time and energy, why not channel it into getting a better paying job at least? especially if they’re the greatest “developer” who ever developed??

          1. HelloBonjour*

            There has been some hugely successful jerks in tech. They were very lucky to leverage their stubbornness to tremendous impact.

            Unsuccessful jerks is such an uninteresting topic. Definitely not prime time news material. Unfortunately, these people exist in greater number than we may think.

            I have met some high achievers academically who failed to secure and hold a job in adulthood. Since they weren’t problematic students in class, the adults did not intervene.

    2. Honoria Lucasta*

      Thanks for the heads up about comments from OP! That was interesting to go back and read, and reinforced the sense that they didn’t have a great sense of perspective.

    3. TPS Reporter*

      oof yeah those responses from OP are rough. They’re so convinced of their position, I imagine this kind of attitude trickled over into actual work matters.

      I hope the past 5 years have given them some perspective and a remote job!

      1. Czhorat*

        The tone of the letter and responses tells you everything about why this escalated to a formal discussion involving HR and not a quick chat with his manager.

        The OP was definitely spiraling, and had WAY more issues than this. I hope it’s better for them too.

      2. Crest*

        The update was from June 2020 so unless the LW had a miracle personality transplant immediately after it was published, I think lockdown-induced isolation and echo chambers just reinforced their delusions, unfortunately.

    4. juliebulie*

      I remember the letter, but I don’t think I ever read OP’s comments. I think I would have remembered. Obviously full of bile that day.

    5. Diane Chambers*

      Oh wow. That person was way too far gone to try to reason with. One thing I noticed was they kept saying they were getting in trouble for cleaning up after people. Nope. Cleaning up after people was where they started, but it didn’t feed their self-righteousness enough, so they did the display of trash on the bins instead. Not cleaning up, creating a mess for everyone, and undercutting their own efforts. If they had just put stuff in the recycling, it would have gone unnoticed, but this wasn’t satisfactory to the OP- clearly shaming people was just as important as recycling.

      1. LNZ*

        it’s not enough to Do Good you must be observed doing good so everyone else knows how good you are

  19. Czhorat*

    I feel sorry for this poster; they clearly got WAY too invested in something that should be trivial and it just spiraled to the point that their entire working situation has become untenable.

    Given how crazy their behavior seems from outside and how clearly angry they are I’m genuinely surprised that the meeting with the manager and HR wasn’t termination; their comments on the original post and the tone of the update didn’t sound any better.

    It’s been over five years since this started. I hope OP has let go of the anger, figured out what their real issues were, and is in a better emotional place now.

  20. Dawn*

    Hah! I remember this one, and how even after Alison’s advice they couldn’t help but double down on their obsession.

    I wish I could have said to them, hey, I literally study and work in sustainability. This is now how we do it, and on top of that you’re now extremely paranoid about something… that you really just need to chill about.

  21. HonorBox*

    Reading the letter and the update made me sad. Yes, it is important to follow rules and I also would like to believe that people can figure out how to sort trash properly. But the fact that it was to a point initially where HR was brought in and then spiraling to someone avoiding the kitchen, avoiding friendly small talk with HR, and being paranoid about who is listening and might report them to HR… not a healthy place to be. I hope that there was some resolution for them in finding a new job.

  22. Alexis Moira Rose*

    It is far better to stay out of things that aren’t your job, or taking on extra things no one asked you to do. The risks that you become too emotionally invested, that it takes away from your performance on core job duties, or that someone tells you you’re not managing your time well, or tells you your involvement is inappropriate and asks you to stop, are too high if you take things like this on without being asked.

    As an example: this reminds me of my previous coworker who got very invested in bringing in special office supplies to share with coworkers and clients when the company wouldn’t provide things he requested, such as special highlighters. I accidentally brought one of the highlighters home, and found a new job. I didn’t think anything of accidentally bringing the highlighter with me, because it cost less than $5 and it would have been an extra trip to bring it back, when I was busy being trained in a new role. The coworker sent me and my grand-boss at my new job emails harassing me, calling me a liar and a thief and telling me to bring it back. I reported him to his boss, who asked me to return the highlighter, but was shocked by his unprofessional behavior and stated she would have a serious discussion about this. Although his professional judgment in this situation was terrible, I can’t help feeling that buying their own special office supplies to share was a recipe for resentment and disaster in this case for this person.

  23. Sneaky Squirrel*

    LW reminds of me an acquaintance I know in that everyone is always out to get them and their interpretation of a situation leaves you believing that they’re not quite the reliable narrator. Unfortunately, someone like that becomes the victim of their own demise.

  24. learnedthehardway*

    And the winner for “most passive aggressive behaviour in an office role” goes to OP!

    1. TheBunny*

      Mmmm…I have a current coworker who dislikes some organizational changes and is simultaneously refusing to give people access to thing to do their newly aligned role…while complaining that people aren’t doing the full role.

      She’s at least in the running for most passive aggressive

  25. Czech Mate*

    When I was in undergrad, I remember an environmental science professor saying, “Recycling is like brushing your teeth. You need to do it. It should be a habit. At the same time, brushing your own teeth doesn’t have any affect on the mouths of other people. The point being: if you want to make real, substantial changes that will help the environment, it has to be through legislation, not individual actions.”

    I think about this whenever I see someone, say, throwing away something that can be recycled. It’s not ideal, but it’s a pretty minimal compared to the waste created by the fast-fashion industry, or something.

    1. Dawn*

      I still have to have this argument to this day in my sustainability courses; I have a classmate this semester who argues that environmentally-responsible behaviour is all on individuals, rather than corporations and governments.

      I said that, ok, if he was going to take that side of it, I couldn’t wait to hear his likely-to-be successful plan to get individuals to stop driving cars and using air conditioners without government intervention.

    2. hiraeth*

      Right, exactly. I have a (beloved!) relative who can go right down the rabbit hole with what’s the best way to recycle X, and they’ve decided to stop buying Y because of the film lid, and they’ve found a place ten miles away that’ll take Z type of packaging, and do I want them to take mine too – which is fine if they want to spend their time like that, but they treat it as if these decisions are life or death, and they worry that I’m not doing the same thing. Recycling is great! We should do it! But it’s not enough. And because it’s not enough and will never be enough, pouring all your energy into trying to make recycling happen perfectly is *a waste of energy*.

      The fact that some individuals are doing something objectively wrong (because yes, of course they should recycle properly) does not mean that any and every opposing action becomes objectively right, necessary or even helpful.

      1. Dawn*

        How much exactly are they saving the environment after they drive 20 miles to drop off recycling? I hope they have a very efficient vehicle.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      Some people much prefer the idea they have a lot more control than that, even if they don’t. I think it was particularly appealing to OP to feel in charge of something important because they clearly felt powerless and unimportant in other areas. They actually referred to themselves as being treated like trash at one point.

      1. Czech Mate*

        Oh absolutely. I personally have gone there myself. It’s hard to accept that on something this important…the individual can’t do very much, so it’s better to let it go.

        1. Dawn*

          I mean, I still do what I can and I think it’s important that we do all contribute.

          But it’s an individual contribution. I’ll certainly share with others the things that they can do – I’m a huge proponent of vermiculture (worm composting) which can be done indoors, even in an apartment – but I’m not out there pressuring anyone. It’s their choice, ultimately.

  26. Corporation Refugee*

    It’s reading stuff like this that makes me so glad I was able to retire a decade ago.

  27. CouldntPickAUsername*

    this clearly screams ‘I’m mad about things I can’t control and I need a clear moral victory’.

  28. Diane Chambers*

    This person gave me secondhand hypertension.

    One thing I wanted to point out, the OP knows for a fact (without knowing who the culprit is) that the person is failing to recycle not out of ignorance, distraction, forgetfulness, etc.; it’s because they just don’t care. But also, stacking the refuse on top of the bin is going to educate the person so they know which bins to use. Don’t they already know which bins to use, they’re just being selfish for no reason? Which one is it, OP?

    1. So they all cheap ass-rolled over and one fell out*

      They also know for a fact that the culprit leaves dirty dishes in the sink, but in the update admits they don’t know which coworker went behind their back.

      Also, I am astounded at the hypocrisy of LW being incredulous that a coworker felt too scared to use the kitchen due to LW’s behavior, but then LW turned around and was scared to use the kitchen because of HR’s comments.

    2. Irish Teacher.*

      I assumed they were trying to embarrass the person into compliance. Which would mean their update about how they are now constantly worried they would inadvertantly offend somebody again was…kinda weird, since the offense given wouldn’t have been inadvertent. It was just that the person didn’t react as they wished.

      I got the impression that at some level, they wanted the person to think, “oh, yikes, now everybody knows how selfish I am. I had better change my ways as people are on to me.”

  29. Unkempt Flatware*

    Woof. I forgot about this and the OP’s comment in the original letter. I hope she got help. It’s a terrible world for some.

    1. Indolent Libertine*

      Yes, the whole “Well! I see that almost all the commenters here are just as awful and selfish as my co-workers and are obviously thrilled that my workplace is generating excess trash, good going all!” vibe in their contribution to the comments didn’t make it seem likely that there was less heel-digging in their future.

  30. Rep (taylor’s version)*

    Yikes. On several bikes.

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned with having ADHD, it’s that I alone cannot save the world, I can only save myself, so if I can’t get my act together to recycle, it’s okay.

    Also, fwiw, putting more people on this planet isn’t exactly considered “environmentally friendly” either.

  31. Rep (taylor’s version)*

    I’m confused why OP keeps saying someone went “behind their back” to HR. You don’t need to tell someone you’re reporting them to HR!

    1. PH*

      I think they mean going to HR instead of addressing it directly with the person. That seems stupid to me too honestly. I think it kinda sucks that OP got more blowback for taking recycling/compost out of trash than the original miscreant got for putting recycling/compost into the trash. Probably if both parties were equally reprimanded, OP wouldn’t have got so worked up.

  32. mordreder*

    Oh, I remember this one. It’s one that I think I read slightly differently than Alison – sure, it’s possible that the company is taking advantage of OP, but it’s also possible that the company was paying OP basically as little as legally possible for an in-demand skillset (especially if OP’s skill self-assessment was true) and was still deciding that maybe OP wasn’t worth the headache – if OP had already done job searching, this might actually *be* what the market had said the (whole package of) work was work. I wish we had gotten clarity on that, because it’s possible that the bigger problem was more “hey, let’s talk about workplace norms and why they’re important” than “you need to find a new job”

  33. I guess my entire company was the real work wife the whole time.*

    This reminds me of the updates from the one person who wanted to save the company money by not eating pizza, canceling their insurance, and walking 5 miles carrying heavy equipment, and in each update they were just like, WHY WON’T PEOPLE THINK OF THE COMPANY’S BOTTOM LINE.

      2. I guess my entire company was the real work wife the whole time.*

        https://www.askamanager.org/2019/01/my-coworkers-wont-cut-expenses-pop-culture-references-in-interviews-and-more.html

        https://www.askamanager.org/2019/12/update-my-coworkers-wont-cut-expenses.html

        I thought I remembered there being two updates, but turns out there was only one, but the very last line was “But I didn’t order anything for myself on the subsequent occasions this happened, and I’m still disappointed that my coworkers held their hand out for pizza instead of planning ahead and bringing some food with them when they knew they would have to stay late, almost as if they were still planning to take advantage of the company!”

        1. Crest*

          Oh my god those 2 letters. I wanted to feel sorry for that OP but wow, the condescending attitude towards their coworkers (and honestly the commenters too) even in the update, even after they themselves got laid off eventually.

  34. Sarah*

    WITH TOTAL IMPUNITY!

    After OP reported the company to city’s code compliance and discovered that the city doesn’t really enforce that part of the municipal code:

    “I guess they’re just going to continue getting a free pass to dump as much unnecessary waste as they please with total impunity”

  35. Snarkastic*

    I agree that the OP if way too emotionally invested, but I’m wondering what would make someone “scared” to enter the kitchen. It seems like the office may just be a dysfunctional place.

    2. H.Regalis*

      This happened at a place I worked at. There was a guy like OP—very intense, very angry—and there were a lot of people there who were afraid of him. He flipped out at a coworker who was cleaning out the office fridge and threw away something of his that had expired, and she would not be in a room with him at all after that. The guy gave off serious mass-shooter vibes. He was always angry and seemed like he could snap at any moment. He ended up getting fired for “jokingly” threatening to kill his boss (to her face) and was later convicted of a felony after he tried to kill his landlord.

      Anyway, point being I can easily see how OP could react in such a way that would make other people afraid that he would do them bodily harm.

      1. Escape from the Bay Area*

        I’ve worked with programmers like the OP and their intensity can come across as possibly threatening really easily. I doubt I ever worked with OP but I’ve met a lot of people exactly like him. Bay Area recycling and compost rules at workplaces can be confusing. Most people I knew dumped everything into compost because all of the to-go containers & utensils in SF are generally compostable.

  36. George Costanza*

    Honestly, I try to do the right thing with recyclables, but if I worked with OP I would just throw everything in the regular garbage out of spite.

    2. londonedit*

      Yep. If everything’s going to get taken out of the bins and displayed in order to shame people who haven’t recycled properly, what’s the point of even trying?

  37. Lara*

    Can you image the answer to “why are you looking to change jobs” this person would give?
    That doesn’t sound conductive to getting a new one at all!

  38. Long Time Fan, First Time Caller*

    If your office doesn’t have a self-appointed, crusading, tireless recycling regulator with a bit of an authoritarian streak, do you even LIVE in the Bay Area?

    I stand with you, OP! Your office- mates and their polluting, bland, technocratic ways can move back to whatever flyover state they came from!

  39. Observer*

    This letter reminds me of the “cheap ass rolls” one. Both people utterly *enraged* over the most mundane stuff and reacting in wildly inappropriate ways.

    They also both sound extremely unhappy. I hope they have both gotten help since they posted.

  40. Tesuji*

    Was this letter from the era before people woke up to the fact that most recycling efforts are meaningless (i.e., depending on the municipality, it’s either pure virtue signalling because everything just ends up in the local landfill anyway, or it gets shipped off to some impoverished country just to get burned or landfilled there)?

    I mean, clearly the focus on recycling is a way of displacing her powerlessness over how shitty her job situation is to something that (maybe) she can control… but, man, it’s just so much sadder when you realize how much energy people were expending on pointless stuff like this, distracting from efforts that could have made a difference.

  41. pjm*

    I can honestly understand the OPs frustration. I think his mistake was not going through the proper channels and having the guy’s manager speak to the person violating the rules about sorting trash. At my old firm, the the bin for the recyclable soda cans was right next to the trash, but certain people would always throw the cans in the trash! Why? Just like HR talked to the OP about his overstepping behavior, I’d like to know why they didn’t ask the other person why they have been putting their recyclables in the trash bin for 2 years now.

    1. basically functional*

      They didn’t know who was putting recyclables in the trash bin. LW assumed it was one person, but it may have been many people.

  42. Diane Chambers*

    Remember on the Office when Pam flamed out of art school and by the next episode was working the front desk at Dunder Mifflin again? (I can’t believe how many times I’ve referenced the Office in this comment section by the way). Anyway, in her first episode back, she got in a huge battle of wills and hung up a passive-aggressive sign about a splattered mess in the microwave…to the point that even Jim was avoiding her. I remember wondering if we were supposed to read between the lines that she was upset she had ended up back at DM and New York had just been a brief hiatus from her unsatisfying job.

    Which is to say…this LW clearly had a lot going on besides a passion for the environment.

    1. New Jack Karyn*

      You know, given your user name, I’d expect comments referencing a different workplace sitcom, but who am I to pigeonhole anyone?

      1. Diane Chambers*

        LOL good point :) Maybe I’m forgetting an episode where Carla and Diane got in a similar cold war about something minor. Sam was usually pretty useless in those situations.

        1. New Jack Karyn*

          Maybe the one where Diane talked Sam into letting her cover the bar while he stepped out for an hour? Carla was more experienced, but Diane begged for a chance; she made a Bloody Mary step by step instead of using the gallon jug of mix under the bar. Carla was unimpressed, but let her fail on her own terms.

  43. Summer*

    After reading this letter, the update, and the angry comment OP left in the original letter’s comment section, I really hope OP got some therapy or help because the anger and bitterness is not helping.

    Also, recycling is kind of a scam at this point. I’m not saying individuals shouldn’t do their part BUT the only change that will truly make a difference will have to come from the corporations and governments. It has to be on that level to do anything for the planet. There have been countless stories about how so much plastic isn’t recycled – the California AG just sued Exxon for lying to the public about recycling plastics. From NBC News: “California’s attorney general sued ExxonMobil on Monday, alleging that the company had waged a “campaign of deception” for decades to mislead consumers and convince them that recycling was a viable solution for plastic waste.”

  44. Sophie Devereau*

    I’m going to bet this person’s overzealous transferring of trashed recyclables to the recycling bin was likely contaminating at least some batches, rendering the whole thing trash. And we already knew by 2020 that most “recycling” was a myth and huge bales aspirational items were just being incinerated and worse overseas. A person who genuinely cared about saving the environment would have known that.

    But no one with a martyr complex THIS huge would want to hear that.

  45. Escape from the Bay Area*

    For anyone who hasn’t worked in SF, he was most likely taking everything out of the trash – utensils, containers and leftover food. I can’t even imagine how creepy that would be to see that someone was digging all of my leftovers out of the trash every day to put on display.

  46. KJC*

    Having lived in the Bay Area for 7 years, it is my experience that most people I knew had a 45-75 minute commute, myself and my husband included. Reading this person’s update, it’s understandable you can’t find a tech job in moderately priced areas like Hayward or Pacifica or Walnut Creek, etc. because the jobs are located in the expensive places to live – proximity to high paid employment is why those areas are so expensive. I encourage the letter writer to look more broadly within a 1 hour radius and still live in the somewhat affordable town (that’s what we did). Try to find jobs near mass transit, and even a long commute will be a breeze. I also got the sense from the update that there may be multiple miscommunications and expectation mismatches, such that it might be worth asking your manager and a few trusted friends if there are specific things they see holding you back. Some career coaching may be worth it.

  47. SkewedPriorities*

    It is scary working with someone like this, especially if you can’t follow their demands. I’m disabled and can’t wash dishes or load a dishwasher. I can’t bend, lift, or carry. I use disposable plates, cups, silverware, and cookware (mostly microwaveable at home) because I can’t use the real stuff. I’ve worked in office environments that don’t supply disposable stuff (or in a few places ban their use) and expect everyone to use company supplies heavy plates, real silverware, mugs, etc. I can barely carry them. If I manage to get a dirty plate into the sink I’m having a good day. But I have to eat, so I leave dirty dishes in the sink. Sometimes I leave them on a table where I eat if I can’t manage to get them to the sink. It is literally the best I can do. If someone tried to give me a hard time about not sorting trash I’d be beyond upset. Sorting trash to someone’s arbitrary standards is not the most important task most people have during their work day.

    Frankly, if I encountered someone this invested in it I’d be scared too. OP seems genuinely scary.

    1. blah*

      If you can’t wash the dishes your company provides, then you need to ask for disposable ones. Being disabled doesn’t excuse you just leaving a dirty dish on a table for a coworker to clean.

    2. Dahlia*

      I’m also disabled – why can’t you bring your own disposables? Did you ask people if they want to wash your dishes? How do you know they aren’t also disabled and barely managing to do their own?

  48. TheBunny*

    As I was reading I kept visualizing the LW literally hopping mad about this while typing.

    This is just bizarre.

  49. Beveled Edge*

    Kind of surprised by AAM’s answer here, since we’ve so often seen HR blame the wrong person for problems. Seems likely here that the type of people who will throw things back into the trash as a clear “F you” to their coworker would be a nightmare when they decided to bring HR into the mix. And a conflict-averse HR employee would likely decide that it’s easier to make the problem go away by threatening the LW than to try to convince the complainer that their complaint is unhinged (which it clearly is).

    1. Allonge*

      You understand that “people who will throw things back into the trash as a clear “F you” to their coworker” may well just exist in OP’s mind, right? OP has no idea who is not sorting trash correctly, never mind why.

      On the other hand OP was leaving trash, even more incorrectly, on the top of the trash bins.

      Which one would bother more people, do you think, some recyclables in the non-recycling, or trash taken out of the bins and displayed on top? For months?

    2. blue rose*

      I’m of the opinion that interpreting “putting item in trash” as “F you” is really unnecessarily taking it personally when the person who threw away trash almost certainly wasn’t thinking about LW at all. Throughout the first letter and especially in the update, the LW seems to be interpreting mundane office affairs as being personally targeted by everyone at their workplace.

    3. Irish Teacher.*

      I think the follow-up makes it a lot clearer that the LW is out of line.

      And honestly, given the LW’s reaction both to HR after this complaint and to the commenters here, I’m not so sure the complaint was out of line. Sure, it sounds like it from this account but that’s assuming the complainant felt threatened just because of the LW passive-aggressively putting their trash on the correct bins. Given the level of anger in the LW’s comments here, it’s very possible that there were signs of anger when they did it and that is what made the person uncomfortable.

  50. OkeyDokey*

    “They’re adding a lot of work for our custodial staff, which is very wrong.”

    “I’ve been sitting through the trash and leaving the parts I don’t agree with sitting out, even though I know the custodians have to clean up the piles of old food I made.”

  51. Meep*

    I consider myself an environmentalist and had to be removed from my sister-in-law when she told me excitedly that a Costco-sized bag of Styrofoam cups would be really helpful to put her water in while she works, but sheesh. Being passive-aggressive in the workplace is never a good idea.

    You also cannot control other’s behavior.

  52. Coverage Associate*

    Bay Area tech adjacent worker here. There were comments on the original thread about OMG. These people are violating The Law with their lax waste sorting. I have not heard of these laws being strenuously enforced. I’m not even sure there’s a budget for enforcement. Maybe non compliant businesses get a letter. Maybe the law theoretically provides for small fines. Our residential landlord says that the waste management company will skip pick up that week if they see the recycling bin is full of non recyclables.

    But it’s not like some parts of Europe I have heard of, where there are waste inspectors checking bins on collection days. Also, I think in the Bay Area it’s all resorted by the waste removal company anyway.

    Also, the sorting rules are not obvious. I was at a public works event Saturday, and they were giving out several page booklets about how to sort waste. When these laws were first passed, the office manager corrected me for putting the paper sack my takeout came in in the compost bin because it was in her view sufficiently clean to go with the paper recycling.

    I make my spouse review the sorting rules when they come in the mail, but then we have separate bins so I don’t have to deal with my spouse’s lax sorting.

    1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      > Also, I think in the Bay Area it’s all resorted by the waste removal company anyway.

      Since we have several different waste removal companies in the Bay Area, it’s probably not handled the same way everywhere in the 9 counties.

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