my drunk coworkers are gossiping about me not drinking

by Alison Green on October 30, 2024

A reader writes:

I find myself in a truly bizarre situation. I attended a work conference overnight this weekend with almost all of my colleagues. We’re attorneys at a pretty large “small” law firm.

At the end of the conference day, we all had dinner together. My close colleague, Jenna, and I arrived to dinner before the rest of our colleagues. I ordered a mocktail.

During dinner, another colleague pulled an “I’ll have what she’s having” and ordered my drink. I did not notice this. When it arrived without alcohol, she was apparently surprised. This led, for reasons I can’t fathom, to my colleagues (all around my age, almost all women, all also associates) apparently deciding I must be pregnant. My colleagues were all VERY drunk.

When we left dinner, one of the colleagues, Sara, asked me outright if this was true. I asked her why she would think that and explained that I wasn’t drinking because I was going to a big party tomorrow, and drinking two nights in a row is just too much for me.

Another colleague, Rose, cornered me and said that she heard I was pregnant. I asked where she heard something like that, and she proceeded to tell me all the associates was talking about it, she heard I was “trying,” and she thought it better to go straight to the source than just speculate. Rose has been very open about her own fertility issues, so I found her questions absolutely shocking. I told her that if I have something to announce, she’d hear about it. I repeated to her that I was going to a party tomorrow and didn’t want to drink two nights in a row. Sara, standing nearby, said, “You don’t have to explain yourself.” Which … apparently is not the case!

Rose proceeded to remind me that if our boss found out by way of gossip, he would be livid. Great.

Rose and another associate, Amanda, then offered to get a round of drinks. Knowing I was under so much scrutiny, I asked them to get me a glass of sparkling wine. Rose returned with the wine, announced to the group that now I could “prove” I wasn’t pregnant, and proceeded to watch me drink with Amanda. I drank about half the glass, before saying I was heading to bed since it was after 11 pm.

I came late to the next morning’s first panel. Jenna told me that the group was still speculating, said I didn’t drink enough (!), and must indeed be pregnant. I told Rose off at the end of the panel and said I was uncomfortable, that was rude, and not to speculate about my health again.

Here’s the thing. I AM pregnant. It is still early, I’m not ready to share, and even my own family doesn’t know yet! I don’t even know if this baby is healthy and developing normally yet. Our boss is kind of paranoid. If he hears this gossip, it will undoubtedly have negative consequences for me. I’m terrified and wildly uncomfortable.

We don’t have HR. I have no idea what to do. Confront each of these colleagues individually for the incredibly inappropriate behavior? Announce early to head off gossip? I can think of one partner at the firm I trust enough to speak with about this. What in the world do I do?

WTF! Your colleagues were wildly out of line.

Not only is it rude and invasive to speculate on whether someone is pregnant, let alone confront them to ask them about it (and no, Rose, it’s not better to “go straight to the source”), but it’s also ridiculous to assume someone is pregnant just because they’re not drinking. There are a ton of reasons someone might not be drinking on any given occasion: your own reason of not wanting to drink two nights in a row, or they’re on a medicine that prevents it, or they’re trying to drink less, or they’re driving later, or they didn’t eat a lot today and don’t want to drink on an empty stomach, or they prefer not to lower their inhibitions at work events, or they just don’t feel like it.

It’s bizarre that your coworkers care so much. Even if they see drinking together as an enjoyable bonding ritual at work conferences, it’s extremely weird to be so put off that someone else doesn’t feel like it — and I wonder if you not drinking made them feel defensive about how much they were all drinking, given that you described them as “VERY drunk.” Some people get like that.

I hate that you felt like you had to order a drink just to make them stop hassling you. If you could go back and do it over, I’d say to tell them that they were out of line, that there are a zillion reasons someone might not be drinking, and that the topic had become tiresome and so you were heading out.

As for what to do now, you definitely don’t need to announce your pregnancy earlier than you otherwise would! They’re not entitled to that information, and there’s no reason you’d need to burden yourself with that just to head off gossip.

Normally I’d say that one option is to let them gossip if they want to and just decide you don’t care. But you’re concerned about consequences if it gets back to your boss, so that might not feel feasible. (More on that in a minute.) Personally, I’d like to see you lay into each of the involved coworkers about this, given how very offensive it is. Sample language: “There can be a ton of reasons someone’s not drinking, not just pregnancy. Many of those reasons are personal and private, and pushing people to share them in a work context is pretty horrible. I also don’t appreciate you speculating about whether I could be pregnant — and I hope you’ll think about how that would land with someone struggling with infertility. If someone is pregnant and ready to share, they will share it. Please give me and others the courtesy and respect of shutting this down.”

Separately: what’s up with a pregnancy “undoubtedly having negative consequences” for you with your boss? That’s not okay (and it’s illegal if your employer has 15 or more employees), and you’re going to need a plan for dealing with that at whatever point you do announce, if that comes. If your boss is truly hostile to pregnancy and you think he’s likely to illegally discriminate against you, it’s not a bad idea for that plan to include touching base with an employment lawyer.

You may also like:
{ 204 comments }

{ 204 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Sloanicota*

    Drinking culture is super weird (and I say this as someone who drinks) and sometimes work clique culture gets toxic. I’m sorry this happened to you and that you felt pressured to do something you didn’t want to do. I’d take this as a sign that you need to step *way* back from this group – they are crossing your boundaries, have demonstrated repeated poor judgement (coming back to this the next day??) and they don’t seem to have your best interests at heart, gossiping about something that could hurt you professionally. Repeat that you don’t want them to keep spreading this rumor and maybe cut back on non-work interactions with these folks for a while.

    Reply ↓
    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I agree – and I pass ZERO judgement, because we all make the choices we make when we are angry or scrutinized, but I am concerned that you might have reinforced that with enough persistence they can get you to cave to whatever f’ed-up fixation they’re currently having about you or your personal life. Once they’ve successfully pushed past one boundary, they might feel empowered to keep doing it, and keep pushing harder.

      So I’d create a LOT of distance, if at all professionally feasible, and I’d do it now. Alison’s language is great, and a firm tone – even a slightly disbelieving tone, like you can’t believe you have to speak to these people like they’re middle schoolers – will go just as far as the words you choose.

      Good luck with your pregnancy, and congratulations. I’m sorry you have to navigate this behavior.

      Reply ↓
      1. ScruffyInternHerder*

        Yup. Once at an industry event with an open bar and a couple hundred attendees (one of only four women present as guests, not waitstaff), I dead-stared a colleague and shotgunned a vodka martini when he informed me that he’d “heard I was expecting so when was I quitting?”. My industry friends loudly jeered the colleague, at least one flat out told him off, but still. It shouldn’t be like this.

        Reply ↓
    2. KitKat*

      Yes – if this was simply because they were drunk, they would have been very embarrassed the next day. Instead they continued to harass you. They don’t see what’s wrong with their behavior and they are jerks.

      Reply ↓
    3. Sparkles McFadden*

      If you work in a place with a heavy drinking culture, there is no acceptable excuse for abstaining. No matter what reason you give, there will be a counter-argument and that will escalate to exactly just what’s being describe here: “Drink this drink to *prove* you’re not lying.” I got this from one boss, who would try to force drinks on me at company events. Her reasoning was that by not drinking, I was judging everyone and making my coworkers feel bad. I said “Oh, that’s so sad” and I continued to ignore her. It really is insane.

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this LW. You need to keep a professional distance from everyone and remind yourself that you definitely do not owe anyone an explanation for anything. I’m much more concerned that your boss will penalize you for being pregnant. That’s the worrisome thing here, so consult with an employment attorney in advance and know your rights.

      Reply ↓
      1. Cinn*

        “Her reasoning was that by not drinking, I was judging everyone and making my coworkers feel bad.” Your response is brilliant, but there’s a part of me that would’ve loved it if you’d said: I wasn’t judging, but I am now.

        Reply ↓
  2. Czhorat*

    People are SO weird about alcohol. If you don’t drink you must be pregnant, a recovering alcoholic, or are just some kind of weirdo who hates fun. Alcohol is a drug, not particularly good for ones long-term health, and has both a taste and effect that some people find off-putting.

    It also has several major cultural roles, a flavor that some people like, and an effect that some people like.

    I think it’s a very bad idea to drink to the point of impairment at work- or work-adjacent functions (see this letter for exhibit A), there’s no reason we can’t accept that everyone has SOME kind of vice that they enjoy. Some people drink alcohol. Some vape. Some do social media. Some spend too much time in the comment section of workplace advice columns. If it doesn’t get in the way of the rest of your life it isn’t a problem, but judging someone for NOT having the same vice as you is just plain weird.

    I’m actually angry that they were right about the pregnancy because it reinforces this absurd notion that there needs to be a *reason* to not partake in alcohol. (Happy for LW with the upcoming child, of course. Annoyed that the busybodies will feel validated)

    Reply ↓
    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Yeah their behavior sounds incredibly unprofessional, on a lot of levels. And I don’t want the fact LW is actually pregnant to make them think this is okay to do to anyone in the future – but people are idiots.

      Reply ↓
      1. Momma Bear*

        Agreed. I was recently at a work event. I drank ginger ale at the Happy Hour and drove home. Nobody said anything, nobody cared. These people are out of line and I hope OP doesn’t feel more pressure to “prove” anything to people with a questionable relationship with alcohol. If OP thinks boss will retaliate, she should be proactive and know her rights. OP, please don’t do anything else you’re not comfortable with to appease their curiosity or stamp out their rumors. Put yourself and your baby first.

        Reply ↓
        1. Paulina*

          Yes. All that pressure to drink at a work event! It sounds like some of them have bad relationships with alcohol and want everyone else to join in so that they don’t have to address that getting significantly drunk during a work conference, when there are panels the next morning, is deeply inappropriate. How dare their coworker try to be well-rested when they’re doing their best to be hung over, yikes.

          Reply ↓
        2. WheresMyPen*

          I mostly don’t drink because I hate the taste of most alcoholic drinks, and at a work party once my colleagues kept checking there were enough non-alcoholic drinks for me which was nice. They did seem a bit confused when I decided to have a cider, checking I didn’t feel pressured into drinking or anything. But my family are the opposite, they love pointing out I’m a sober weirdo and asking when I’m going to start drinking. Annoyingly they know I’m always driving my other family member so I couldn’t drink even if I wanted to.

          Reply ↓
      2. Sneaky Squirrel*

        Yes, this is my concern – that when LW is ready to tell work about the pregnancy, the offenders are going to look back on this day and feel validated they were in the right because they knew something was up and not see it for what it was.

        Reply ↓
    2. Silver Robin*

      I drink exceedingly occasionally, to the point that people ask if I just do not drink at all. And it is not for any “reason” other than I just do not feel the urge to. I like plenty of alcoholic drinks, I have taught several people how to properly do vodka shots, but I never really got into the habit and never saw a reason to increase the frequency. Nobody has ever given it a second thought after I said, “no, I just drink rarely because I just rarely feel like it”. And even those questions are quite rare themselves. People obsessing over what other people do or do not consume is weird and upsetting.

      Totally with you on the last bit about the busybodies getting validated. I am so mad they are going to be able to figure out they were actually right if/when LW does eventually announce. Ughhhh

      Reply ↓
      1. Shinespark*

        People can get so weird about other people’s boundaries around alcohol!

        I’m glad you’ve never had a problem with people pressuring you. I’m also a very infrequent drinker because of medication I’m on. While I can still drink, it affects me differently now and I effectively have a one drink limit.

        Which gets rounded down to “I can’t drink” at work. Because wouldn’t you know it, my colleagues can respect not being allowed to drink, but if I have one and refuse any more, suddenly everyone has a reason why “one/two/a few more wouldn’t hurt”. It’s like actively choosing not to drink is unfathomable to them.

        Reply ↓
        1. Silver Robin*

          Yeah my friends are generally reasonable people and my coworkers have never fussed about it. The latter might be mitigated slightly because I accept a drink as a thank you for a favor or if somebody is buying a round for all of us to cheers to something, I will participate. So I think they think might also be a budget thing (not exactly wrong, either, drinks are pricey!).

          That sucks that people think one drink means N+1 drinks. Weird logic; I know a lot of folks are trying to be friendly/encouraging, but nobody should ever be insisting. It stops being friendly.

          Reply ↓
        2. Slow Gin Lizz*

          Another excuse could so easily be, “I want to be at my best for the work events tomorrow and don’t want alcohol to affect my sleep” or something to that effect. Apparently OP’s coworkers don’t know that it’s actually the responsible thing to NOT drink alcohol in the middle of a work conference. Not that it’s exactly irresponsible to do so, but that maybe some people prefer to remain completely sober at work events that involve the extra stress of travel, being away from home, and all the extra logistics and heightened mental involvement that being at a conference requires. OP’s coworkers are kind of jerks to not respect that.

          Reply ↓
        3. MigraineMonth*

          I am the life of the party–joking, dancing, singing karaoke, up for anything–until I have a drink. Then it interacts with my medication and I get really sleepy. (I once tried to take a nap on a table at a bar with a live band.)

          Reply ↓
      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I am the heavy drinker in my group of friends, and by that I mean sometimes I occasionally have TWO drinks in an evening. A lot of my friends rarely or never drink and it’s amusing to have a few people over who all share one bottle of beer. I’ve never once asked any of them why they are or are not drinking and a lot of the time I don’t even notice one way or the other. With the coworkers being so nosy (and I too am annoyed they will be validated in this situation) and the boss likely to treat OP differently once the pregnancy is announced, this workplace sounds fully of bees. And all the women at this event sound like the kind who will start being super nosy about pregnancy details too, which sounds like a really irritating situation for OP.

        It’s also unfortunate that no matter what your reasons for not drinking (headache, fatigue, medication), many of them could easily be pregnancy-related symptoms and therefore only further validate those who think you’re pregnant. It’s tricky, though, that if you normally do drink alcohol at events, suddenly not doing so causes everyone to think “PREGNANT” if you are someone who looks like a woman.

        Reply ↓
        1. Silver Robin*

          Yeah, pregnancy being such a common reason to suddenly stop makes it hard. Because it is not the most absurd assumption, but it *is* an assumption and also *nobody’s damn business* unless they have something directly to do with said pregnancy. Coworkers and friends generally do not.

          The other wild thing is that pregnancies are usually something that you can just…wait to find out about. If they continue to term, they usually get pretty dang obvious and you will probably get an announcement. Or like, a baby will appear. Ya know? And if it fades away, then it is no longer relevant and none of your business. Just wait it out? I get being curious, but impulse control is part of being an adult, sheesh.

          Reply ↓
          1. Slow Gin Lizz*

            Yeah, really. Keep your pregnancy suspicions about your coworkers (and anyone else, for that matter) to yourself. You’re gonna find out one way or the other in the coming months anyway, so why make everyone uncomfortable by trying to get someone to admit it before they’re ready to?

            Reply ↓
      3. kicking-k*

        I’m in that boat too – I don’t “not drink”, but I’m hard put to remember the last time I did. My husband can’t (it’s a migraine trigger) and it’s not something I miss if I don’t do it.

        I’ve never really been pressured by anyone since my teenage years (I live in a country where it’s legal to drink at 18) and would consider it very rude to speculate on other people’s consumption or non-consumption – of alcohol, food, whatever.

        Reply ↓
    3. Roy G. Biv*

      “Some spend too much time in the comment section of workplace advice columns.”

      Feeling a little targeted, Czhorat. Just sayin.’

      Reply ↓
      2. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Hey if my vice teaches me not to be an ass about someone else’s vice or lack thereof, I consider it time well spent.

        Reply ↓
      4. MigraineMonth*

        Very targeted. One of my friends could make it a drinking game where she took a shot every time I mentioned AAM, except she doesn’t drink.

        Reply ↓
    5. AGD*

      I have a friend I haven’t talked to in a long time because she brought her new partner to a wedding we attended and he kept trying to push alcohol on me. I firmly declined every “are you sure?”, but walked away exhausted and irritated. Never said anything, mainly because didn’t know how to tell my friend that I thought her new partner – a 45-year-old man – was being so weird about boundaries that I wanted to stay well away from him indefinitely. The worst part is that she’s a health educator for young adults and gives lots of lectures about consent.

      Reply ↓
    6. honeygrim*

      The kind of drinking culture in this workplace is so weird to me (and I do enjoy the occasional alcoholic drink, though I don’t drink very often). I wonder what one of the LW’s drinking colleagues would say if the question was turned back on them?

      Sara: Why aren’t you drinking, LW?
      LW: Why ARE you drinking, Sara?

      I’m assuming Sara’s answer would be some variation of “because I want to.” Why is that okay for the drinker, but “because I don’t want to” is NOT okay for LW?

      This kind of peer pressure is never warranted, but doubly so when it’s among supposedly-professional adults.

      Reply ↓
      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        A lot of law firms have a heavy-drinking culture, and it’s definitely something that needs to change yesterday. If I were OP I’d have been tempted to ask her coworkers if they were making an afterschool special.

        Reply ↓
        1. Wayward Sun*

          Journalism is another one. Also pretty much every industry in California, which for some reason has an extremely boozy culture where nearly every restaurant has a liquor license.

          Reply ↓
          1. The Kulprit*

            Nursing can be a 3rd. Fully half of the nurses I know are heavy drinkers in a way it would be wise for them to examine. Also, I’ve seen the same scenario described in the letter played out verbatim (except for the boss part, but that’s the only thing).

            Reply ↓
        2. Nah*

          On one hand, I can sympathize with using a vice like alcohol to deal with the high pressure of a law firm job, on the much bigger hand I would be extremely concerned as a client learning my legal council was getting hammered on the regular!

          (And yes, obviously as long as they aren’t drinking on the job or showing up to court plastered with a lampshade on their heads they can do whatever they want in their free time, but hangovers are killer on the head too and if my family/freedom/house/money/etc was on the line, I’d be wary of anyone not totally on their game working my case.)

          Reply ↓
    7. Ostrich Herder*

      I’m with you on this. People are WEIRD about drinking. I’m a woman right around the age and life stage where people expect me to get pregnant, and I’ve had clients speculate about whether I’m pregnant – in front of my face! – if I don’t drink in situations where I have in the past.

      The co-workers are going to be so, so annoying about this, assuming LW announces her pregnancy there and someone does the math. The “We KNEW it, you WERE pregnant!” comments would make me furious. Wishing LW lots of strength for that, and a healthy, easy pregnancy too!

      Reply ↓
      1. Frankie Mermaids*

        The double dose of weird around drinking plus weird about pregnancy. I can only imagine the whole “I KNEW IT” phenomenon is going to be unbearable with this crew in particular. I work with a similar type of gossiper who absolutely knew “something was up with you when you stopped talking to me” and could not stop telling people that they “had a feeling.”(The timing of that avoidance wouldn’t have anything to do with the gossiper’s own poor performance putting more work on me, no of course not)

        Reply ↓
    8. Chick-n-boots*

      Some spend too much time in the comment section of workplace advice columns.

      I may resemble that remark LOL.

      But to your actual point, I agree – people are so weird about drinking and I’m kinda pissed at all of the LW’s coworkers for being so nosy and feeling so entitled to explanations they aren’t owed AT ALL. They sound completely obnoxious, at least where this issue is concerned.

      Reply ↓
    9. Tio*

      I don’t drink, first for personal reasons and later health reasons on top of that, and people get SO PUSHY about trying to force you to drink. Why? Leave me be. I’m not stopping you or judging you I just DON’T WANT TO

      Reply ↓
      1. Nah*

        Family history of severe alcoholism, plus a parent that has severe reactions to alcohol, and also just me being cheap and not liking any drinks I’ve tried so far here. It’s especially frustrating that drinking culture (and drugs, to a different extent) is so embedded in the local queer culture here. I have to either spend 10-2am at a bar being pressured into expensive drinks by other adults that start getting Touchy Feely the more they drink, or get stuck in a group meeting where the average age of attendees is like 15. I’m nearly thirty, I want to connect with others in the community, but it’s super frustrating trying to navigate. I can’t imagine the sheer level of frustration LW must be feeling, but I definitely have at least an inkling…

        (to be clear, alcohol-based events are totally fine for those that enjoy them, and a lot of people do! it’s just that when every single get together is focused entirely on booze, it turns kinda alienating to someone not interested whatsoever. Like could I at least suggest doing… idk, a picnic? museum visit? axe throwing?)

        Reply ↓
        1. Seashell*

          Maybe you need to start a MeetUp group called Sober-Friendly Queer Events or something. Your people are probably out there somewhere. :-)

          Reply ↓
  3. Silver Robin*

    And in that law firm were banana pants, b-a-n-a-n-a, with a wtf here and a wtf there p-a-n-t-s

    (no it does not fully scan with Old McDonald, but close enough)

    LW, this is absolutely bonkers. If anyone approaches you again, do absolutely lay into them the way Alison described and tell folks like Rose that you would expect her to shut down this kind of horrid gossip, rather than reporting to you that it is happening as an excuse to get the real “scoop”.

    Ugh and then when you *do* announce pregnancy (assuming you are still at this job then), everyone is going to be muttering “I KNEW IT” etc. Your coworkers suck. Your boss might suck even more, though I am hoping the “livid” is about not being told directly, rather than the pregnancy, but even then, that would be a wildly out of balance response. Best of luck with them and your pregnancy over all.

    Reply ↓
      1. ScruffyInternHerder*

        This is how I read this, full on.

        I’d change “My” to “This” in the previous part of the song though, because this IS bullshit.

        Reply ↓
  4. chiffonades*

    I don’t work in a law firm, but is it common for people who do to completely normalize their boss being vindictive about an employee becoming pregnant??? I certainly hope this isn’t a law firm that works in employment law.

    Reply ↓
      1. MassMatt*

        On the OTHER hand, I know several people who work/have worked in law firms and have heard some pretty shocking stories–blatant discrimination, not paying contractors, not keeping info confidential, etc.
        I stopped saying “wait a minute, this is a LAW firm?” after the third or fourth “oh you poor naive child” look.

        It seems lots of lawyers think the law is something that applies to OTHER people.

        Reply ↓
        1. Olivia*

          Agreed!

          I do think the specific situation of employees normalizing a boss being vindictive to someone who’s pregnant is not common in any industry, but maybe I’m the naive child :)

          Reply ↓
      2. Ask a Manager* Post author

        I hear surprisingly often about law-violating bosses who are lawyers, and not infrequently employment lawyers. It’s like they think they have the knowledge to get away with it or something. (Also, law firms seem to be up there on the list of workplaces with a high likelihood to be mismanaged. Doctors’ offices too.)

        Reply ↓
        1. ursula*

          Law in general often has an attitude of, “workplace protections are for the little guys who aren’t as smart and hard-working as we are.” It’s connected to the long hours, the sometimes abusive supervision and ‘mentorship’ conditions, the general vibe of collective suffering, the prestige-chasing. It’s very toxic and very common. Female law students are still regularly told that if they want to make partner, they should think about not having kids. Law schools are majority-women (at least here in Canada) and then if you look at the stats there’s a huge drop-off point around years 4-7 where suddenly a bunch of women disappear permanently out of the legal workforce and it’s majority men again. There are some great firms and great legal workplaces, obviously, but much like academia and medicine, law is in a lot of ways a deeply sick industry. (Source: was a lawyer, quit, now work in a quasi-legal nonprofit context)

          Reply ↓
        2. Greengirl*

          Yeah one of my best friends worked for a series of small law firms where she was forced to pray with her bosses and also pretty sure she was fired for being pregnant.

          The way she has explained it is that if she filed lawsuits against either of these employers, she would not be hired again in her community so that is often why they are able to get away with blatantly breaking employment law.

          Reply ↓
          1. ScruffyInternHerder*

            Not in the law field, but can confirm it can be “is it worth suing employer A when no settlement from them will make up for 50 years of employment for me?”.

            Might be something to why older women (in my field at least) seem to become less tolerant of the BS as the “years of employment” number becomes smaller. Hmmm.

            Reply ↓
          2. Tio*

            Also, lawyers are probably best positioned to not care if they’re sued for these things, I’d assume, since they can defend themselves and not have to pay legal fees. Whereas the person suing likely has to pay their own costs, and may not be able to afford a good enough lawyer, and sometimes the payouts aren’t even much after legal fees, not to mention the time it takes out of work

            Reply ↓
        3. Richard Hershberger*

          Mismanagement: Well, sure. Being a good lawyer (or doctor) is a distinct skill sets from being a good businessperson, much less a good manager. Much wackiness follows from this. Law firms have some weird restrictions on who can own them. This often plays out with one of: hiring a good office manager who runs things; having some or all of the equity ownership held by a guy with a law degree but who has not actually practiced law in decades; or muddling through and seeing what comes from it.

          Reply ↓
        4. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

          The Former Lawyer Podcast dives into the various ways the legal profession is dysfunctional.

          Reply ↓
        5. DogFace Boy*

          Lawyers and doctors mismanage because they have the arrogant belief that because they have doctorates, that they must also magically be able to manage the peons who work for them. They do not understand that management is a career in its own right that requires education and experience to do successfully, and requires a skill set that they almost never have. In other words, hubris. (BTW this is coming from an attorney who knows better!)

          Reply ↓
          1. higheredrefugee*

            I kindly remind my fellow lawyers that we have Juris Doctors, a professional degree, not doctorates. Technically true for medical doctors but they earned that Doctor title in other ways. Either way, my management skills were not taught or earned in law school but in grad school and by working.

            Reply ↓
        6. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

          And IT firms have the worst network security. There’s a lot of ‘oh I’m the expert so I don’t have to follow the rules. Rules are for the general public’ stuff.

          Reply ↓
          1. MigraineMonth*

            “Well of course *I* need root access and read/write on everything. I’m super smart; I’d never accidentally delete the production database with a typo in my script.”

            Reply ↓
        8. Legal Eagle*

          Worked at multiple law firms and YES. Employment lawyers are the worst offenders (doubly so if they are in charge of dealing with internal employment issues, which, just, no).

          But secondly, as others point out, lawyers are taught to practice law and not business. There’s a slow and steady increase of business professionals in C-Suite positions at law firms, which is long overdue. Everything improves when you have lawyers only being lawyers and business professionals doing their thing.

          Reply ↓
      3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        Same. Employment law firms are some of the worst violators of employment law (huge generalization I know).

        OP, they were feeling defensive so they took it out on you.

        Your boss is unreasonable even if the reason they will be vindicative is they heard it through gossip not from you first, rather than pregnancy discrimination. I would talk to the partner you trust most and lay it out. Ask them the best way to handle it, whether one on one, or if that lawyer will tell everyone that speculating on people’s health is not allowed.

        Reply ↓
        1. Sloanicota*

          I think it’s a subset of the same factor we’ve talked about before wrt nonprofits; small law firms and small doctor’s offices and small nonprofits tend towards mismanagement because there’s an outsized impact of a few individuals. Plus small places generally don’t have a real HR, may not may of the basic policies others take for granted, and often aren’t subject to state or federal laws.

          Reply ↓
          1. badger*

            even better when it’s a small non-profit law firm whose exec is a hell of a good attorney and the absolute worst manager who holds unconscious grudges against women, attorneys, and people younger than he is, and even worse when he is afraid that one of his staff attorneys might be smarter than he is.

            I got the silent treatment for half my notice period. It was honestly great.

            Reply ↓
    3. CityMouse*

      Small law firms can be the worst. A friend of mine quit a small law firm after her boss threw a stapler at her head.

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        Conversely, they can be the best. I worked for one guy for fifteen years. He didn’t throw staplers. The range of possible working conditions is greater in a small firm, as it depends on, in many cases, the personality of one guy.

        Reply ↓
        1. Sloanicota*

          I admit, I work at a tiny place – now it’s just me and my boss – and I’ve been very happy because I like that boss and our work styles are compatible. But it’s basically all down to just that, with no outside mediating influence, so it obviously has a greater potential to go wrong. And I don’t get most of the worker protections that are specifically for workplaces of 15 or more.

          Reply ↓
    4. Petty Crocker*

      I worked in a tax firm where one of the named partners (a woman, no less) would get angry when women had the audacity to not time their pregnancies around busy seasons. Busy seasons are twice a year for 3 months each.

      The partner of the team I was on was upset because my cancer treatment interfered with busy season. (It was 10+ years ago–I’m all good.) I got clandestine reports from the office while I was going through chemo and radiation (after surgery) that she was in her office muttering “why me?” because I had to be out for that busy season. When I found myself wishing for cancer again, I knew it was time to get out of that place.

      Reply ↓
    5. Dandylions*

      TBF, Rose said it would be a problem if he found out through gossip. Still not great, but not quite the same as finding out you are pregnant would be an issue. Especially since it sounds like Rose is openly TTC.

      Reply ↓
  6. Judge Judy and Executioner*

    What the heck? I was just at a networking event last week and there was an open bar. I usually will have a drink or two, but had an upset stomach and stuck to soda. No one said anything at all, other than to offer to get me a drink of my choice since I couldn’t leave a table. That’s the way it should be!

    Reply ↓
    1. CityMouse*

      I have GERD avoid alcohol when I’m having a flare up (and drinking more than one ever). There are TONS of reasons people don’t drink.

      Reply ↓
  7. HonorBox*

    I disagree slightly about the boss part of this … but only because I read the letter a particular way. It seems like the OP is saying the boss would be livid if they found out about the pregnancy through gossip, not directly from the person. That only changes what one would worry about and how to proceed. If it is indeed that boss would be livid if they found out through gossip, I think I’d suggest going back to Rose and pushing back on what she said. Like, “Rose, you said boss would be livid if they found out through gossip. My not drinking one night because I didn’t want to drink two nights in a row brought out wild speculation on everyone’s part. That gossip that the boss might hear is because people are gossiping. All I did was not drink at a work event. I’d appreciate your help in shutting this down.”

    Further, OP might talk to the lawyer they are closer to and dive in on this point a little more. Let them know that the situation was very uncomfortable, they provided valid reasons for not drinking (as if a valid reason is even needed…) and people are gossiping. Someone said boss would be upset if they heard about a pregnancy through gossip, but how does one shut down gossip more than OP has tried?

    There’s zero reason to change course on how you announce. And I think it is absolutely reasonable to tell coworkers how out of line their speculation and gossip is. No need to outline why… just tell them that it is out of line and unprofessional and needs to stop immediately.

    Reply ↓
    1. dulcinea47*

      this is how I read it too, he’d be mad about hearing it thru gossip, not necessarily that he’d be mad at the pregnancy. But it’s still horrible that he’d take it out on LW, it’s not her fault others are gossips!

      Reply ↓
    2. Silver Robin*

      Yeah, I also read it as you did. But Boss being livid about that is also an outsized reaction. Boss is not entitled to knowing first. Boss technically only needs to know once it becomes a workload/time off issue.

      If Boss does hear about it and confront LW, I would say something like “My coworkers are speculating wildly because I did not have alcohol during a dinner together and have continued to do so even after I told them to stop.” Maybe something like “I assure you that I will let you know should a pregnancy begin to affect my work.” or something that tells Boss there will be open/proactive/professional communication. But the bigger point would be that the gossip is deeply speculative and unprofessional.

      Reply ↓
      1. HonorBox*

        I like how you put that. I could see Big Boss perhaps being a little upset, though not to the point of livid, if OP was announcing it to a few colleagues long before letting the Big Boss know and it got back to Big Boss. But even then, delays can happen. People can announce the way they see fit. It seems like an outsized reaction to be livid if you heard through scuttlebutt.

        Reply ↓
        1. Silver Robin*

          Right! Boss could just as easily be happy for LW and want to check in; maybe feel awkward because he technically found out indirectly. But if my Boss found out through gossip, the most I would get is “I just wanted to check in, I hear you are pregnant. Is that true? Congrats! Do you know where all the leave policy info is? Please talk to HR Person if you have questions. Let me know if you need anything and please give me a heads up once you know your time off plans so we can adjust for them.”

          Why livid? Who needs to be livid here?

          Reply ↓
        2. Sneaky Squirrel*

          Hmm, I don’t know of any situation that justifies why a Big Boss would feel the need to hear it first. If the Big boss will even get a little upset about not hearing it first, that’s coming out of egotism, not a business need.

          Reply ↓
    3. Suzi Quattro*

      If that’s the case, I might approach it as follows:

      Now: Hey, Boss, the other night Rose et al were giving me grief about not drinking and were speculating about my personal life in a really intrusive and inappropriate way. [Could you have a word, and also]/[I don’t want you to say anything to them, but] please ignore any gossip you hear about me.

      At the appropriate moment: Hey, Boss, you remember that time three months ago when I mentioned that Rose et al were speculating that I might be pregnant? Well, turns out…

      Reply ↓
    4. BostonANONian*

      I’m the Letter Writer! I should have been more clear, but YES, this is the correct reading. I can confirm my boss handled two simultaneous pregnancies/leaves while I’ve been here just fine. It would be hearing it via gossip, rather than from me directly, that I am concerned about. I think it would set a really unpleasant tone for this news, and he would be hurt by feeling like “the last to know” (that would be the paranoia). Which is why announcing earlier than planned would ease my mind, but also why (like many commenters) it would piss me off to validate the gossipers!

      Both Rose and Sara have since apologized…after they saw me talking to the trusted partner on Monday morning about what went down (Jenna had informed her of the behavior, though she kept my personal info private!). I was able to reiterate that their behavior was not okay, but honestly I am glad the partner knows and can work with me to figure out a way to handle this appropriately. It’s such a liability for the firm, I think it should not be in my hands to address alone.

      Reply ↓
      1. Silver Robin*

        Glad your Boss is good with pregnancies; still a bit of side eye about feeling hurt to be the “last to know” but if it is manageable for you, then fine.

        Also glad to hear the trusted partner is helping and that Jenna has had your back. It is absolutely should not be just on you to deal with this; or on you at all really! Hopefully the apologies stick and partner gets everyone in line, because this behavior is wildly out of line.

        Reply ↓
      3. Karl Havoc*

        I was going to suggest enlisting Jenna to tell off the others if you didn’t feel like doing it yourself – I’m glad she was there for you.

        I also wanted to say that IMO, you should 100% feel free to tell Rose and Sara that you didn’t know you were pregnant yet during the conference if you don’t want them to feel validated by having been correct.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lisa B*

          I wouldn’t put it past these Nosy Rosies to be all “and do you remember she was DRINKING” when you do decide to announce.

          Reply ↓
      4. HonorBox*

        Thanks OP! I’m glad that was the correct reading, though it is a little difficult having to manage Big Boss’s feelings when you’re the one who should be able to share when and how you’d like to. I’m also glad that Rose and Sara apologized and the trusted partner was indeed trustworthy and helpful.

        Congratulations, too! This is an exciting time for you and I hope the workplace stress simmers down even more.

        Reply ↓
  8. Yankee*

    Ugh. I’ve been there. I was a young associate in a smallish department in the middle of a baby boom. At one point, three of us were pregnant and due around the same time, and the partners were beside themselves about how unfortunate the timing was—for them. I announced first and so got the most congratulations and the least amount of snark. By the time the third woman announced, the whole firm had pregnancy on the brain and had been speculating about her (and all of the other women of childbearing age) for weeks.

    Reply ↓
  9. Annon for this one time*

    I’ve just been diagnosed as diabetic, and my doctor has instructed me to not drink until we get my blood sugar under control and have a better understanding of what alcohol may do to my system, and it’s nobody’s f’in business.

    Reply ↓
    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      “Must be gestational diabetes.” – Rose, probably.

      In all seriousness, I hope you are doing ok and everything goes well with your blood sugar and all that.

      Reply ↓
  10. Nonsense*

    OP, I sincerely hope you can line up a job with a new firm for after you complete your maternity leave. These aren’t coworkers you want to keep longer than absolutely necessary, and you definitely don’t want to stick around with a vindictive boss either.

    Reply ↓
  11. ursula*

    FWIW, in legal workplaces, I have gotten a lot of mileage out of pointed use of the phrase “You are lawyers. You should know better.”

    Reply ↓
  12. Mouse named Anon*

    I am not a big drinker at all. I probably have a glass of wine once a month or so. This would royally piss me off. I hate telling people that I am not big drinker, bc it comes with alot questions on why and how. There’s not big secret its mostly bc I don’t like to drink. I am also a HUGE lightweight. Even in college when I drank semi-regularly (even then I didn’t drink like your typical college student). I am tipsy after 1.5 glasses of wine, 1 beer or 1 cocktail, get a pounding headache and have stomach issues the next day.

    People need to mind their own business!

    Reply ↓
    1. JustaTech*

      My husband is also not much of a drinker, and never has been. But his general division at work for some reason tends to be a lot of heavy drinkers. Not in a “you have a problem” kind of way, more in a “can drink beer like it is water” kind of way.
      And yet, for some reason they’ve never given him a hard time, or even really seemed to notice that he just doesn’t drink as much as they do (or at all). I don’t know if it’s because they’re all really nice people (they are nice, but not like exceptional) or if he just exudes some kind of Teflon that deflects the “why aren’t you drinking” questions. I wish I could learn how he does it and share it with the world. (Being a dude helps, for sure.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Ama*

        I think in a group of drinkers, the group dynamic is really strong. If no one says anything about someone else not drinking, in most groups that will set a “we don’t comment on people not drinking” mindset. But as soon as you get one person who decides they’re going to comment on it, it’s much easier for the group as a whole to think they’re all entitled to comment — to stop it, someone has to be the person to say “hey it’s not really any of our business” and that can be really hard.

        In the OP’s case if you add in people who *also* feel entitled to speculate on whether or not someone is pregnant, the dynamic gets even worse.

        Reply ↓
    2. Chirpy*

      This. I don’t drink much (like, maybe 5 drinks a year max) , and on top of that, I HATE beer, and am an extreme lightweight (I have gotten tipsy off a single glass of wine.) Bars also are sensory and anxiety hell. While there are a few drinks I do like, the combination of all these things means I basically do not drink in public.

      But WOW, do so many people take my “no, thanks, I’m not drinking tonight” as a personal insult to them, or then make it their mission to guilt me into drinking. The one time I drank with a coworker at a conference, she had *at least* 8 drinks, and she wouldn’t shut up about the fact that I dragged out one beer for the whole night, so I ordered another just to appease her – and then she was upset I drank that one faster so we could leave sooner.
      (Bar was crappy, and I was stuck there with her. There was literally ONE Uber in that town.)

      Reply ↓
    3. CeramicSun*

      I’m the same way. And unlike a lot of my classmates, I cannot drive for the rest of the night if I have a drink. Yes that includes just one drink of hard cider. No I can’t just eat some food and be good to drive in an hour. On the rare occasions I do drink, it’s normally when I’m at home for this exact reason

      Reply ↓
  13. Jessica Clubber Lang*

    The boss being upset and having negative consequences seems far more disturbing than the gossiping coworkers! I’m not usually one to say consult a lawyer but I think Alson is on target here

    Reply ↓
    1. Liane*

      The OP, as BostonANONian, did state above that it was actually the Boss would’ve been upset *if he learned about the pregnancy from others,* not because he was a bigoted glassbowl, and had handled other office pregnancies appropriately. Also Jenna & a partner have OP’s back. So there’s some good news.

      The remaining bad news (IMO) is that Rose, Sara, et al. seem to be glass bowls who are trying to get OP in troyble with her boss, and who knows what pot they might stir next.

      Reply ↓
  14. Snow Leopard Pumpkin Enrichment*

    OP, this sucks and I’m so sorry. If it keeps coming up after you tell them off — which it might, if these people see you as a source of amusement — I suggest you take a leaf out of Captain Awkward’s notebook and just become as boring about it as possible. For example:

    Them: “Ooh, still not drinking at the Halloween party, eh?”
    Me: “Yup. Where’d you get your costume?”

    Them: “Are you actually pregnant? You can tell me.”
    Me: “I’ll keep that in mind. How’s the brief coming along?”

    If you give them as little as possible to work with, some people will eventually tire of it and move on. But to be clear, AAM is 100% right and you should not have to be dealing with this.

    Reply ↓
  15. DramaQ*

    LW I hope you realize how incredibly full of bees and toxic your workplace is. You shouldn’t be pressured to drink and have your coworkers gossiping about you if you don’t. You shouldn’t have to fear your boss being livid and punishing you for being pregnant.
    I personally don’t care for alcohol all that much I never have. Drinking culture is very weird especially as you get older. I find that the people who feel the need to get “very drunk” especially at work functions project on those of us who don’t drink because deep down they are probably aware being smashed at a work function isn’t the best look. You being sober reminds them of that so they go on the offensive. If you are drunk too then it’s all just good fun!
    While it is daunting it isn’t impossible to find another job while pregnant. There are companies out there who are supportive and aren’t full of drunk busy bodies. I can understand not wanting to job hunt at this time but after what you just went through I’d seriously consider the possibilty.

    Reply ↓
    1. Nonsense*

      So many people just can’t seem to comprehend having even a decent time without drinking. I’ve reached the point where I feel sorry for those people, that they’ve lost the ability to enjoy outings without impairment.

      Although pleasantly, at my big work conference last week, I didn’t encounter anyone who judged my not-drinking. A few people were actually jealous of my very tasty maraschino cherries and switched drinks later on (the bar tender was sweet and gave me extra since I was the first nonalcoholic order of the night).

      Reply ↓
    2. Falling Diphthong*

      I think it’s people who feel they are being Bad, and so if anyone is not doing the Bad Thing the speaker is being judged, and only by demanding that whatever the speaker is doing be acknowledged as the social norm can they feel okay about doing it, so anyone not doing it is basically attacking them.

      So if someone said “I definitely don’t have any sort of problem with my use of llama YouTube videos! My viewing is totally normal and not something anyone should be concerned about!” I would expect that person to monitor other people’s llama YouTube video viewing, and try to get them to view more videos until the speaker felt reassured that their own llama video viewing was definitely not A Problem.

      Reply ↓
  17. Clearance Issues*

    my office has a huge alcohol culture. I’m not a big drinker and a few others aren’t either so we’ve been pushing for less alcohol focused team building.

    Someone at my old job did speculate that I was pregnant once and because I was leaving for other reasons, I asked “why my sex life and medical history is their business.”
    do not do that if you want to keep good relationships with your coworkers. I didn’t care because I was leaving.

    Reply ↓
  19. Glomarization, Esq.*

    You’re a lawyer. In your best oral argument voice, tell your colleagues to knock it off, you have work to do.

    Reply ↓
  20. Jo*

    Why can people just not accept that people might not want to drink alcohol or assume you can’t have a good time without alcohol? There have been times I’ve thought about getting myself an orange juice and just pretending there was vodka in it,so people would not hassle me. LW, I hope all works out for you and that your colleagues are contrite about what happened and keep their noses out of what’s nothing to do with them in future!

    Reply ↓
    1. MissMaple*

      Yeah, everyone at work thinks I drink Moscow mules. I just like ginger beer, lime, and a cup that no one can tell what it has in it, so nosy people leave me alone.

      Reply ↓
  21. Quinalla*

    Drinking culture can be so weird and invasive! When I was pregnant and not drinking because of it but hadn’t announce, I had a ready excuse in case someone asked (and people did) which was I was on a new diet. I normally drink socially, so it was a tad more reasonable for folks to be curious, but still it is awful how people immediately jump to pregnant if you are someone who can get pregnant or alcoholic if you aren’t – those tend to be the two assumptions. So I didn’t want those assumptions made, so I gave them a reason instead that wasn’t even really a lie since I had changed my diet with knowing I was pregnant.

    I wish people would chill out about drinking though. I never question or look sideways at someone who doesn’t want to drink alcohol, it’s all good and lots of reasons to abstain and people should not have to give excuses. Ugh!!

    It reminds me of coffee culture, though not quite as bad. A lot of folks just don’t believe that I don’t like coffee and also that I can take or leave caffeine. So annoying, but much less detrimental for gossip.

    Reply ↓
  22. The Wizard Rincewind*

    I hate that people feel so entitled to someone else’s health status. ESPECIALLY pregnancy, since it’s such a fraught period of time in someone’s life and full of complex emotions, history, and health challenges (even in the smoothest, dream-scenario pregnancy, which I wish wholeheartedly on the LW). This is so gross and my skin crawled reading it. As someone of reproductive age who’s chosen to never have children, I get a lot of this as people can be weirdly obsessed with me “changing my mind,” and every instance of me deciding that I just don’t feel like drinking is watched like a hawk. I’ve started carrying a dummy drink on those occasions just to fend off speculation (it’s harder to discreetly dump a glass of wine in a sit-down environment, though).

    I’m usually the last person to suggest confrontation, but I think I would have flipped my lid in this scenario and wouldn’t have blamed LW for doing so. Your coworkers are aggressive loons.

    Reply ↓
    1. dulcinea47*

      I go with a club soda for a decoy drink. Most people just assume its a cocktail and I don’t hear anything about it.

      Reply ↓
        1. Silver Robin*

          The fact that this could have been so easily avoided if coworker had just ordered something else is eating at me. The coworker did nothing wrong in ordering the same thing and it is not like LW could have stopped it from happening, but who could have predicted such consequences? What a wild butterfly effect.

          Reply ↓
          1. BostonANONian*

            I’m the LW and I did order both a mocktail and a club soda with lime (when I do drink, it is typically a G&T, so this would not be unusual for me, either). I was honestly too shocked by the whole thing to be mad about it until afterwards.

            Reply ↓
  23. Stuart Foote*

    I assume the boss will be mad because LW didn’t tell him herself, and the official reason will not be because she is pregnant (but basically that is the real reason since people typically don’t share as soon as they find out, especially for the first baby). The co-workers are out of line but I will say sometimes declining a drink when that’s not the normal pattern does reveal the pregnancy–I’ve found out about a number of friends’ pregnancies that way (although I’ve never been pushy or obnoxious like these co-workers).

    It really seems like the main issue here is the boss being so paranoid that this will have negative consequences–pregnancy aside that seems like it would be a horrible situation to be stuck in. Maybe this job is great in other ways but I’d be looking for the door.

    Allison’s script would be good if LW wasn’t pregnant, but it is definitely undercut by the fact that she is. I would focus on how spreading that kind of gossip is far from harmless given the office dynamics and putting someone on the spot like that (pregnant or not) isn’t nice at all.

    Reply ↓
  24. Twill*

    The whole idea of monitoring what coworkers drink or don’t drink is just so odd to me. And as many have posted here, there can be a multitude of reasons. This makes me think of my grandmother, who had no objection to drinking, but did not drink because “it’s tastes like medicine”. She lived to be 102 and as far as I can remember, she never drank anything but tea.

    Reply ↓
    1. ThursdaysGeek*

      My excuse is it smells like 10th grade biology, but I also haven’t got pressure from others. Am I just hanging out with better people?

      I do recall a work New Year’s celebration, and everyone was given a drink. I took it, raised the cup when they did the toasts, and after that was over, found someone who looked like they wanted another, and quietly offered my untouched drink to them. No-one seemed to notice or care.

      Reply ↓
      1. Falling Diphthong*

        As a nondrinker in college (late 80s), I noticed that (thanks to MADD) other college students shrugged, but people 10-20 years older were very aware of whether you were drinking, and pressured you to conform so they would feel not judged.

        Reply ↓
    2. Paint N Drip*

      The only time I’m monitoring coworkers drinking is when I’m concerned about someone’s drinking, never their non-drinking. I worked as an admin at a medical office through high school and some college (iykyk, medical workers can really turn up) so I guess I honed my ’employee party with open bar cut-off alert’ vision and can’t let it go

      Reply ↓
  25. KC*

    I’m not an attorney…and this group of people is made up of attorneys…but a lot of this feels illegal. Like, couldn’t this be considered sexual harassment/gender-based harassment REGARDLESS of LW’s actual pregnancy status? You’d think a bunch of attorneys would be more thoughtful about that. Jeez.

    LW, sorry your coworkers suck and are speculating about something that is soooo not their business. I’m righteously angry on your behalf!

    Reply ↓
  26. CityMouse*

    The legal profession is such a mess when it comes to alcohol. One minute in law school we’re getting a lecture on substance abuse, the next we’re invited to multiple happy hours. We were even coached on how to hide that we’re NOT drinking at events. I had a classmate who died from complications of drug and alcohol abuse and it drives me nuts.

    Reply ↓
      1. CityMouse*

        FWIW I work in public interest and it’s much better. Firms, it really depends on the firm, but since COVID there’s a lot more teleworking so less in office drinking culture.

        Reply ↓
    3. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      Weekly “Bar Review” (aka happy hour) was an immediate thing starting 1L year. It’s ingrained in the legal culture from the get go.

      Reply ↓
      1. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

        To add: heavy drinking at these events was typical, not nursing one drink throughout

        Reply ↓
        1. CityMouse*

          I had Civ Pro at 9 AM on Fridays and people missed it all the time because they stayed out too late at bar review on Thursday nights.

          Reply ↓
    4. Bast*

      Yes, I worked at a firm where drinking events were a big deal and you were expected to attend, or you weren’t a “team player.” These occurred monthly, sometimes twice a month if there were a special event occurring that month (ie: CEO’s birthday, celebration for a wedding, etc). This had an effect on raises, promotions, etc. This was a larger firm, mostly younger people, and upper management could not seem to comprehend that a) various people did not want to drink for just as many reasons and b) people actually wanted to spend time away from work in their time off, not attend crappy events that almost all revolved around getting sloppy drunk. We even had an event where someone drove their car into the building where the event was being held because they were *THAT* drunk. You’d think that would be a sign to cut back on the drinking events, but no. They just banned (company) shots and had taxis lined up to drive the intoxicated people home.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bast*

        And let me make it clear — shots themselves were not *technically* banned altogether, the company just wouldn’t pay for them anymore. Up until then, you could purchase shots and put them on the company tab. You were still free to order as many non-shot drinks (including mixed beverages) as you wanted though! And it was encouraged, not merely tolerated.

        Reply ↓
    5. BostonANONian*

      I’m the LW! This ^^^^ @CityMouse, you are so right. It’s a terrible culture. Even panelists were joking about getting to happy hour. I’ve never been a big drinker, but don’t mind drinking socially. Even so, it was still a work event, with more conference events the next morning.

      Reply ↓
    6. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

      Similar thing happens to doctors. I’ve met so many who’ll lecture you on the evils of smoking and then you’ll see them after a 24 hour shift chain smoking by their car.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nah*

        To put my speculation goggles on, from what experience I do have, many workers have taken up smoking because for some reason so many workplaces (including hospitals) are totally chill with someone taking eight smoke breaks a shift, but you want to sit down for two minutes? No, frick you, get your rear back to work we’re too short staffed for that!

        Reply ↓
    7. me*

      Yep, first day of 1L orientation, the Dean gave us the substance abuse lecture. 12 hours later we had our very first bar review scheduled.

      I was so happy that a recent legal conference I went to had a special mocktail listed on the menu above the special cocktail at the welcome reception. I tried both, and went back for seconds on the mocktail because it tasted better.

      Reply ↓
    8. TQB*

      Just came back from a conference where the keynote was an attorney in recovery. There were 5 different happy hour events over the 3 days.

      We are so broken. I survived being a junior associate at a big law firm by volunteering to pick up the first round. I’d go to the bar and ask the bartender to give me seltzer with lime in a cocktail glass, and that with every round, if they could please do this instead of the “gin and tonic” I’d order. I also shamelessly tossed shots of alcohol over my shoulder, dumped drinks in planters, became suddenly clumsy, etc. These should not be life skills i needed to learn.

      Reply ↓
  27. Somehow I Manage*

    It strikes me as odd that people get very drunk at work events. A little drunk? Maybe. If there’s an open bar it can happen more easily than if you’re paying. Tipsy? Sure. I’m always cautious myself because if I’m representing my workplace, I want to be on my game. In addition to slowing my mind, alcohol also makes it harder for me to hear conversations over the din of a reception.

    I think in addition to perhaps looking elsewhere for work, it might be worth a conversation with one of the senior lawyers at the firm about how these colleagues were not representing themselves or the firm well. Each workplace is different and I’m sure things vary from industry to industry and event to event, but if colleagues are VERY DRUNK, and they’re representing the company at a conference, even on their “own time” and not at a formal function, I think it would be good for the firm’s leadership to understand what some of the attorneys were doing and how they’re negatively impacting the firm. Maybe in this case no one did something stupid in public like jumping naked into a pool, but they are setting the firm up for some trouble by harassing someone for not drinking and then wildly speculating about someone’s medical status.

    Reply ↓
    1. TechWorker*

      Meh I think that it depends whether they are actually ‘representing their workplace’ in any way. A dinner that’s part of the conference is different to a dinner with your boss is different to a dinner with colleagues at the same level. You might personally have the boundary that you would never, ever drink much whilst in the presence of colleagues, but I don’t think everyone has that boundary (& to some extent it would be an overstep by the workplace imo if they tried to enforce that – after work hours your time is your own, including whether you choose to hang out with colleagues).

      Reply ↓
  28. KitKat*

    I had some work travel and family visits in very early pregnancy and this was my nightmare. I spent time in my hotel practicing how I’d respond to “joking” comments about my drink orders (I was going to pretend I was doing Dry January… in February/March…) It thankfully didn’t actually happen, because my coworkers aren’t absolute boors.

    I’m so sorry, OP, that this happened to you, and so sorry for the anxiety you must be feeling about what will happen when these people find out they were “right.” This was not okay.

    Reply ↓
    1. CV*

      Dry January in a non-January month could be very funny, especially if some of the people you say it to are so drunk they don’t realize it’s not January.

      Reply ↓
      1. Paint N Drip*

        ‘oh I’m doing Dry January’
        *coworker looks around Halloween-themed bar and thinks to themselves maybe I should stop drinking too…*

        Reply ↓
  29. Selina Luna*

    I absolutely do not understand any of this. Why would someone care what liquid someone else puts in their body? I frequently choose not to drink when I’m out, and my friends have never commented on it. I guess my friends are just cool? Alcohol has never come up around workmates (I’m a teacher in a part of the country with a large LDS population; alcohol is not served at staff functions, even when they occur in restaurants that have alcohol available). But I hear all the time about people choosing not to drink around a group of people, people who don’t know them well, even, and getting harassed about not drinking. You don’t ever know whether someone has a reason for not drinking, but frankly, it’s not your business whether they have a great reason or no reason at all for not having alcohol.

    Reply ↓
  30. Lacey*

    This is so weird and awful.

    I work for a company that does a LOT of heavy drinking and pushes it at gatherings even as more and more of my coworkers are cutting back on alcohol for a variety of reasons.

    Even so, I can’t imagine any of them going this far.

    Reply ↓
  31. Rob aka Mediancat*

    One of my previous workplaces had a big drinking culture — not that anyone was intentionally isolated, but, as a nondrinker (I’m the one who simply doesn’t like the taste) and something of an introvert I never felt at ease in the more boisterous culture of that workplace. And note, these were folks who were trying to be friendly and helpful and never once said anything about my not drinking. I can’t imagine how unpleasant it would have been had they pressed me on the issue.

    Reply ↓
  32. Shelly*

    The only OTC pain med I’m allowed to take is tylenol, and I would never drink after taking that, so sometimes that’s why I’m not drinking. Sometimes it’s because sweet alcoholic drinks make my stomach hurt, but I don’t like the taste of non-sweet ones. Most of the time I’d just rather drink iced tea or water. In my 20s, people probably would have bugged me about it, but luckily my interest in alcohol fell off in my 30s, when a bunch of other people I know also stopped drinking very much.

    Reply ↓
  33. NoIWontFixYourComputer*

    My go to (and it’s usually the truth) if I’m asked, is “I’m driving tonight”. Alas, wouldn’t work in this situation.

    Reply ↓
  34. VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

    I’m reminded of an Instagram Reel in which the Overbearing Boss character mandates drinking during the company’s Happy Hour, threatens to write up anyone who doesn’t drink, and fumes when Rebellious Employee openly refuses.

    Reply ↓
  35. ticktick*

    Separate from the main issue of the weird alcohol-culture/policing/harassment going on, what’s with the initial catalyst of the person ordering “I’ll have what’s she’s having” without knowing what it is, and then making a big deal about it? If you ordered it because it looked good when your colleague was drinking it, then presumably that’s WHY the colleague ordered it!

    Reply ↓
  36. Too Long Til Retirement*

    UUgghhh as someone who used to drink a lot and has now cut back to a drink or two on weekends…your coworkers sound insufferable. There are so many reasons to not drink, and honestly not drinking needs to be more of a norm! Luckily I have noticed many places having mocktails and NA beer as options, and I think it’s great. I have spoken up about cutting back, and people get super weird about it.

    Reply ↓
  37. Insubordinate Clause*

    I rarely drink anymore. When I was younger, I got more pressure and saying that I just don’t like the taste (or cost) didn’t matter. Now I cheerfully respond, “I gain weight easily and learned that I can drink my calories or eat them. I’d rather eat them. What looks good on the menu?” This both shuts people down and changes the subject.

    Reply ↓
  38. anon4ny*

    If I were you, I would document, document, document. As AAM noted, it’s generally totally illegal for employers to discriminate against someone pregnant- I think there’s a movie about this called “Labor Pains”, where an office worker fakes a pregnancy to avoid getting fired.

    Also, drinks or not, your coworkers were all speculating about your body and a personal condition, all pretty casually. This is so weird- could it be professional sabotage, since your boss wouldn’t like this and presumably they know that? Without confirming from you first, this is such a tenuous leap to *must be pregnant* because you ordered a mocktail…

    Reply ↓
    1. A person*

      1) She isn’t necessarily drinking. She gave an excuse to her colleagues, saying she had a big party the day after. Doesn’t mean she would actually drink.
      2) Half a drink isn’t going to have a big impact anyway. Especially since it’s rosé : it’s basically flavored water.
      3) That’s her business anyway.

      Reply ↓
    4. Media Monkey*

      Wow. that’s what you took from the letter? half a glass of fizz is going to be within safe pregnancy limits (in the UK 1-2 units of alcohol a week would be considered to be fine)

      Reply ↓
  40. A person*

    Here’s my reason for not drinking. Please use it if necessary (shouldn’t have to, but there you go) : I run and when I drink, I don’t recover and perform as well as I could.

    You can twist it for basically any kind of physical activity. You can just invent a hike, a big yoga session… whatever works with your life.

    And also, when I’m tired, recovering from a cold…, alcohol has a tendency to slow down my recovery. That works too as an excuse.

    Reply ↓
    1. WillowSunstar*

      My reason is simply I am trying to be healthier overall, and it doesn’t fit into my eating pattern.

      There’s also it costs money, and with inflation right now, it’s better to spend the money on other things that matter more.

      Reply ↓
    3. londonedit*

      I do drink, and sometimes I drink quite a lot.

      I also run, and go to the gym, and mainly do those things in the morning. Yes, I can do them the morning after a few drinks, but frankly I find them difficult enough as it is so I tend to not drink or only have one or two the night before. So I’m often saying things like ‘Absolutely cannot have more than one glass of wine tonight, I’m running in the morning!’ or ‘Got to be at the gym for 6am so I’m sticking to water!’ Luckily in my friendship group it’s totally fine and no one is weird about who is and isn’t drinking – probably because most of us are runners and we understand that while you’d still like to go out, you don’t want to drink a bottle of wine if you’re doing a long run the following day. So exercise is definitely a good excuse (not that anyone should be policing what anyone else is drinking anyway!)

      Reply ↓
      1. A person*

        Yeah, interval sessions are already a pain, no need to make them harder than they already are which bad sleep and alcohol-induced dehydration, right ?

        Reply ↓
    4. Ceanothus*

      These are my (absolutely true) internal, unverifiable reasons for not drinking. People often stop talking after I share them because they don’t want to have the “Now that I’m over 30, I have the following maladies” talk. There is like a 3% chance of an intense discussion about GERD or adult acne or migraine triggers.

      “I’ve been getting acne breakouts after drinking so I’m avoiding it when I can.”
      “It gives me SUCH heartburn and until I figure out some other triggers, I’m taking a break.”
      “If I have a drink after being on my feet all day, I’ll have a terrible headache tomorrow.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Bast*

        Absolutely. I’ve noticed that my tolerance has gone down after 30 as well, and I tend to end up with an upset stomach the next day if I have a mixed drink or more than one beer/hard cider/hard seltzer. Sometimes, I abstain altogether because I’m cheap and would rather get a $12 dessert than a $12 drink… But no one has ever pressed into “stomach trouble.” No one wants any details on that and the topic quickly moves on to something else.

        Reply ↓
  41. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    I’m in the UK where there’s a very strong drinking culture and this kind of pressure/rumours is sadly rather common.

    Why I don’t drink alcohol has a lot of medical reasons that I don’t want to share with people who I’m not very close to. The ONLY thing that has stopped the ‘but you must be pregnant!’ thing is hitting menopause and having a hysterectomy!

    There’s no real solution for being in a room full of pushy pissheads except the ‘leave it out mate’ response or (as I do) never going to the pub. I’m sorry.

    Reply ↓
  42. Plath*

    I’m curious how they’re going to respond when OP does decide to announce and how these suggestions for what to say to them will impact it. Based on the information given, I think it’s highly likely they’ll say something like ” See I KNEW you weren’t drinking because you were pregnant!” and it will reinforce their behavior. Not that it’s OP’s responsibility to disclose because their coworkers are being rude, but just something for them to be prepared for when they do decide to share the news.

    Reply ↓
  43. tinybutfierce*

    “and I wonder if you not drinking made them feel defensive about how much they were all drinking”

    I’ve abstained from alcohol for 8+ years now, due to past issues abusing it, and the few times I’ve had anyone get weird about my not drinking, it has aaaaalways seemed like it comes from them feeling defensive about their own relationship with booze. It’s so weird how some people seem to think you’re making a personal choice for yourself AT them somehow.

    Reply ↓
  44. PDB*

    I don’t drink. I just don’t like the feeling. You would think I’m insulting everybody who does drink from the reactions I get.

    Reply ↓
  45. Megan C.*

    Situations like this are one of the reasons I HATE drinking culture. I’m so sorry you had to deal with such a ridiculous situation and that now when you do announce you’re pregnant they’re all going to feel vindicated about their boorish behavior. Ugh.

    Reply ↓
  46. RedinSC*

    There was one woman in my group of friends who was so proud of the “fact” that she could “sense” when someone was pregnant. So, if anyone turned down a glass of wine at book club she’d announce that she sensed they were pregnant. OMG, just no.

    Just like you should not go up and rub a pregnant woman’s belly, don’t announce someone’s medical news to a group. Especially as in this case it could have professional ramifications.

    What, if some woman doesn’t want to kiss the Elvis impersonator at the event, is she gay and are you going to gossip about the lesbian?

    Stop! It’s not your business, just stop.

    Reply ↓
  47. Anonymous Person*

    1. It’s extremely unlikely that a single half-glass of champagne could harm your fetus
    AND
    2. It’s not great that you were so easily peer pressured into something that *could* have harmed the fetus.

    Boundaries are even more important when we’re setting them for those who can’t yet.

    Reply ↓
  48. MillennialHR*

    I don’t drink at work events (I did once at my first job right out of college…I learned my lesson!!!) and I am of child-bearing age (just had my first 4 months ago!). I would be livid with these women and immediately call them out. You never know if someone wants to be pregnant, or they’re trying and can’t get pregnant, but they’re not drinking because they *could* be! You also don’t know if anyone has a medical condition that is aggravated by drinking! There’s so many reasons and these people are horrible.

    Reply ↓
  49. verrucktsax*

    Being a woman of child-bearing age in an industry with a work hard, play hard attitude is it’s own special fun. Last year, when my doctor and I were adjusting some of my medications, I was asked not to drink for a few months while we found the correct dose. I’m already not a big drinker, but the minute I started ordering soda, speculation IMMEDIATELY began that I was pregnant, and no amount of explanations would get co-workers to drop this idea.

    Reply ↓
  50. Ess Ess*

    I recently had to stop drinking for a while. I was on a medication that absolutely didn’t allow drinking. Personally, I would announce to each of the people in the office that this constant harassment about pregnancy simply because I chose not to overindulge 2 days in a row has crossed the line into official ‘hostile work environment’ due to the harassment over assumed pregnancy and needs to stop RIGHT NOW. I would also add to them that since this is a law office, they should know better than to engage in this behavior.

    Reply ↓
  51. Web of Pies*

    It’s fun when you’re on a medication you can’t drink on, people so desperately want to know what the medication is for. Just trying to not totally fry my liver here, people!

    Reply ↓
  52. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

    UGH the collision of drink culture and pregnancy speculation culture.

    Part of the issue is that pregnancy speculation is its own culture. I have a notoriously weak stomach. I deal with nausea frequently – often enough that I have been scoped multiple times.
    Until I turned 50 the number of times I got “ooooh, you look greenish, are you PREGNANT”. “Did you just throw up? You must be pregnant!!!!”

    Combine that with not wanting to drink at work functions because I just spent most of the week trying not to vomit. It was non-stop – I remember one week getting asked the PG question more than a dozen times. I was actually grateful the years I was heavy because nothing shut it down faster than “Nope, just fat, thanks for pointing that out.”

    Reply ↓
  53. TQB*

    Ugh, I read this with such despair. 14 years ago, I was in the same position – overly nosy coworkers. I ultimately miscarried that baby, making it all worse. Later in life, I worked in a NORMAL office, got pregnant, and so help me, if anyone actually suspected, they all had the good grace to act shocked when i finally shared the news (after 17 weeks because i was so traumatized after the first time). So, OP, your people are definitely WAY out of line, and I agree that you should call them out. I’m figuring that they are average associate age, which means their experience in professional offices may be limited. Make them feel like shit such that the next time this happens, they are more thoughtful.

    Reply ↓
  55. LR*

    Recovering alcoholic here. 100% of people who make your not drinking A Thing are reacting to/projecting their feelings about their own drinking. That is no one else’s problem or responsibility. “I don’t feel like it” is always an acceptable reason for abstaining and anyone reacting weirdly is telling on themselves.

    Everyone : please don’t feel the need to explain yourself (even in a less charged situation than this one)! Truly, folks with a normal relationship to alcohol won’t care if you drink or not. The surprising thing is how many people have an abnormal relationship with it, and how much that’s normalized culturally.

    Reply ↓
  56. Salty Pumpkin*

    Uggggh while I’m I’m not dealing with this in my workplace thankfully, I do with family and it’s so annoying. I always feel like I need to have a drink in my hand to signal I’m not pregnant. Mom thought I was announcing I’m pregnant because I wanted to FaceTime, like I can’t just feel like chatting to my family? Not everything is a hint I’m pregnant. You have my sympathies OP, Godspeed. I’d love an update on this one.

    Reply ↓
  57. Coverage Associate*

    I know I would never think of it in the moment, but this would have been a good time for, “I am going to step away before you embarrass yourself further.”

    When you do announce your pregnancy (or disclose; doesn’t have to be a bigger announcement than any other medical leave), remember that your due date is also personal health information. And just in general, just because you disclose part of a health condition doesn’t mean you have to disclose every detail. You can tell people when your leave will be, or about when your leave will be, without being so precise that your coworkers would have clear and convincing evidence, so to speak, that you were pregnant at the time of this conference.

    (I worked for a long time in obstetrics before law school. I feel there’s not much about pregnancy that would meet a clear and convincing standard.)

    Reply ↓
    1. Salty Pumpkin*

      That’s a great point. I can imagine OP’s coworkers coming back with a “see, we were right, we knew it!” ugh.

      Reply ↓
  58. Jake Purralta*

    I don’t drink alcohol and never have because I don’t like any of it. Before I was disabled I was the first on the dance floor so people tended to not notice. People still question me but as I’m disabled now I think a lot assume it’s due to medication.
    My own parents tried to make me drink at my 18th birthday party, I just passed the alcohol to friends.
    It’s weird how big the drinking culture is in the UK.

    Reply ↓
  60. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

    OP – I think your office has three cultural problems.
    1) the typical law firm grind-the-associates-into-the-ground problem
    2) gossip by your peers
    3) drinking by your peers

    Reply ↓
  61. The Kulprit*

    Sorry you had to go through this OP, they were relentless!

    I hope that for your announcement they give you the gift of shutting the hell up.

    Reply ↓
  62. Sam I Am*

    We can use the same thought experiment here as so many other places: if the sex of the person was reversed, would you do it? No? Not speculating that any dude in your life is pregnant? Don’t speculate if any of the women are either.
    It’s invasive AT BEST.

    Reply ↓
  63. --*

    This really sums up why I don’t socialize with colleagues. I don’t even go to work happy hours. I’ve had no issues climbing the corporate ladder, though I realize for some people not socializing could have negative consequences. The line between work and personal life is so thin already, I’m not interested in allowing it to get any wavier. If someone asked if I was pregnant, I would have a difficult time working with them moving forward.

    Reply ↓

Leave a Comment

Before you comment: Please be kind, stay on-topic, and follow the site's commenting rules.
You can report an ad, tech, or typo issue here.

Subscribe to all comments on this post by RSS