open thread – October 4, 2024

by Alison Green on October 4, 2024

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. PX*

    Top tips for highlighting intangibles and other soft skills on your CV? I work in an industry where cover letters arent given much weight, and a big part of my job requires getting other people to work well together (and I’m good at it). But I feel like the focus on measurable KPIs/metrics isnt helping me here.

    1. Jane*

      I feel like your soft skills can be implied in the metrics. When you talk about things like “getting other people to work well together” can you say something like “Led/managed/coordinated a team of X number of people on Y project to produce Z outcome?” Or “Selected and managed a team of X people while overhauling [less than optimal process] to [more optimal process] which resulted in Y% increase in [metric] over the fiscal year?”

    2. Pay no attention...*

      Have you taken any certificate or other “measurable” courses in those soft skills? The KPI’s to measure might be the end result of getting people to work well together — % increase in satisfaction…per a survey…or lower turnover in the department. Or the KPIs of the group that you got to work well together… % decrease in errors due to working well together.

    3. anonymous anteater*

      Maybe something like
      -go-to person for facilitating productive collaborations and balancing competing stakeholder priorities, e.g. XY project completed on time without compromising widget quality, YZ report delivered with clear recommendations while keeping business data confidential
      -known for highly effective communication skills, and ability to build strong relationships with various partners (executives, operations staff, SMEs)
      It is hard to put metrics on everything, but maybe listing qualitative achievements that then would be backed up by stories in your interview or references, could work.
      Maybe it will get easier to highlight specific skills, if you reflect on which particular achievements will be most relevant for the job that you are applying for.

    4. Strive to Excel*

      Well – if you get people to work well together, that usually results in some sort of measurable KPI increase somewhere! Do you have any projects you helped with that were measured before and after you started? Decreased incidents of employee complaints? Reduced time to do tasks? Increase in efficiency, or decrease in lost time/materials?

    5. bamcheeks*

      How do you do that? I talk about about using my coaching and active listening skills to explore other’s needs and priorities, finding commonalities and then designing solutions that meet disparate needs (or not exactly that, but like that.) Have you got any specific examples where X wanted A and Y wanted B and you were able to support them in coming up with C which met both sets of needs?

      1. bamcheeks*

        (A way I think about articulating soft skills is to think what advice you’d give someone new to the same task, or yourself five years ago– this is a great way of getting yourself to define what you’ve learned and/or what you do without really thinking about it!)

    6. Ann O'Nemity*

      Incorporate soft skills into achievement statements. Instead of listing soft skills, embed them into your accomplishment statements. For example:

      “Led cross-functional teams of 10+ to improve project delivery timelines by 15%, enhancing interdepartmental collaboration.”

      “Resolved team conflicts through mediation and active listening, maintaining productivity during high-stress periods.”

    7. Venus*

      I have used wording about being tasked to resolve difficult interpersonal communications. I do more than the average be nice to my team and get them to collaborate well, rather I am really good at convincing assholes to give my team what we need.

      1. Reluctant Mezzo*

        “Glassbowl wrangling”–probably not the phrase to use, but boy, is it a useful skill!

        Madeline Albright was the queen of it when she was in the State Department back in the 1990’s. Through wiles unknown to normal people, she got Sen. Strom Thurmond to ok us paying our UN dues. Trust me, this was HUGE.

        Sa-LUTE!

        1. Fierce Jindo*

          I’ll still always think of “We think the price is worth it” first whenever I think of her, though.

    8. Kez*

      I tend to highlight situations that would be obvious from the outside as difficult. So in my case, that looks like saying “Developed training materials for a variety of stakeholders, from IT professionals to casual users” or “Coordinated cross-functional project to achieve goals and balance needs of a variety of stakeholders”. So maybe try highlighting that?

    9. Librarian*

      get the impact from the pov of others and quote them. “my supervisor wrote in my annual review that I am her go to person for troubled teams”

    10. Pink Geek*

      I don’t know if this is the good/right way to do it but I say things like:

      – Specifically requested for X project because of Y skill
      – Praised by client for my ability to Y

      These skills are the hardest to write about but also the most valuable!

  2. Culture Shift*

    Are there any good websites, books, or other resources you can recommend for dealing with a major cultural shift in the workplace? I’m a remote US employee who has been moved to a team centralized in Pune, and I am seriously struggling with the wildly different expectations and behavior.

    Just one example of many: Everything is a negotiation; I’m expected to constantly haggle with US vendors for better prices and faster deliveries, when that’s just not how it works. Even when an agreement is in place and signed off, they still want me to harp on the representative to send things sooner than agreed. While my role usually involves a bit of vendor management because my finished electronic work has to be physically printed, this is starting to feel like a cold-call sales job. My stress is through the roof because these vendor relationships are becoming combative, and it’s completely unnecessary. “Pushing back” on the internal team does nothing. (This is just an example of one major issue, I’m looking for higher-level help and not just suggestions for this one thing.)

    1. T.N.H*

      Yea, you’re gonna lose vendors and contractors with this. When that happens, do you think it will be enough of a natural consequence? Is your team genuinely unaware of how things operate in the US? My other idea is to find an ally who does not have a US background and use their expertise to drive the point home.

    2. Jane*

      This needs to be something that you address first above you and then below. Without buy-in from your management team, you’re going to continue to field these types of questions. You may *still* field them from the internal team, but at least you’ll have the blessing of leadership when you ignore or dismiss their negotiation questions.

    3. restingbutchface*

      Yeah, I feel this. And assuming the vendors are local, they are going to expect it.

      I have been working for an Indian company for a while now and I still get culture shocks on the regular. Where is your manager located? Pune?

      1. Culture Shift*

        My direct manager (meaning who does my reviews) is in Oregon and I am in New England. My dotted-line manager (meaning who assigns my work) is in Pune.

        1. restingbutchface*

          … do we work at the same place? Technology company?

          I see a lot of comments that are encouraging you to try and enforce your ways of working on the team. It won’t work, just like if one of my Indian colleagues joined my team and started enforcing new ways of working on me. I work the way I do because it works and it’s my culture. One minor example is honorifics. If a colleague suggested I start referring to my manager as Boss-Sir and being more deferential, I would simply assume they were joking and ignore them.

          The only thing I’ve found that works is understanding what you can and cannot be flexible about. I might wish my colleagues would stop calling clients Boss-Sir, but I can swallow that. I will not tolerate certain behaviour, either because if affects me personally or violates my own moral code.

          It really sounds like you’re coming up against your limit here. I know exactly the behaviour you’re referring to and it would really push my personal boundaries. I don’t know if I could swallow it long term – how long is your assignation?

    4. Still*

      When you say that pushing back does nothing, what does that look like?

      Could you grey rock them? Keep saying “I’ve checked with the vendor and this is the best they can do” and just not bring it up with the vendors even if your team keeps pushing?

      Where is your manager on this?

    5. NaoNao*

      Can you lean on the “bridge between cultures” aspect and explain that as a US citizen you have knowledge of how “they” do things and ask to be respected as an expert on “their” cultural norms?
      If the team in Pune is asking you to haggle with local vendors, they likely understand it’s part of the game. But it Pune is asking you to haggle with US vendors, step in and explain “this is my culture and I have both a deep and broad understanding here. This isn’t how it’s done”

      I actually understand your struggle very well as I worked overseas in SE Asia and threats/haggling/hassling and repeated increasingly urgent calls was the only way to get things done. It was total culture shock coming back to the US and having people be taken aback by my sharp tone or almost…combative stance. (Of course I dropped it shortly after coming back, but it did take a minute!)

    6. Strive to Excel*

      To me it sounds like the challenge here isn’t one of a cultural shift. It’s that the way the role you are in operates has changed, you are expected to be the forerunner of the change without having the power or backing to make it stick, and that your job description has shifted negatively as a result. It’s not a question of “I need to rethink how to have business communications with my coworkers, because our ways of being polite are different”. Presumably you’d be just as frustrated if a new boss showed up who required you to start selling MLM products. I don’t doubt that there are other challenges you are dealing with that are not affecting your work so significantly – I can only imagine that the timezone difference must be brutal! But in the specific example I’m seeing, it’s as much an operational change as it is a culture change.

      So: I would advise checking into books on negotiations, but also any of Alison’s posts that deal with having to tell bosses they’re making a bad decision. For negotiations, “Getting to Yes” and “Getting Past No” are classics. I don’t know enough about Pune or Indian cultural underpinnings to advise on that culture specifically. If you have a trusted coworker either in the Pune division or who has successfully and frequently worked with the Pune division, you might ask them for advice as to how they adapted/best practices to make things run smoothly.

      But also – the more concrete data you can give your bosses on why this isn’t working, the more it will help your case. If you normally spend 2 hours a week on vendor management and now you’re spending 10? That’s information that needs to go to your managers – both of them. Keep this strictly to “things that are actively making it more challenging to do my job/actively harming the company”. I also think it’s not unreasonable to go to your direct manager and say “My job description said I would be only asked to do X on occasion. I’m finding myself doing X really frequently now. This is very different from what I thought I would be doing, and it’s not a skillset I’m good at”.

    7. I'm just here for the cats!!*

      oh this is tough. It sounds like you are using US venders and your Pune team doesn’t understand that in the US there is not as many negotiations, especially if there is an agreement already in place. I know that in some cultures there is a push for haggling and negotiation, and it sounds like your bosses just don’t understand that that’s not how US works and if they are using US venders they cannot expect you or the company to work this way. I don’t know if there is anything you could do. Since your company is international are their any trainings that they offer for working in new cultures, etc. I would see if there is someone who can help explain this.

      1. Momma Bear*

        Maybe make a script – “We have an agreement with ABC company for 50 widgets at $20/widget. This was negotiated and agreed to prior to this official contract and signed off by Director Smith. We can discuss if the shipment is behind schedule, but all negotiations for price are already finalized. We run the risk of being dropped as a customer if we continue to push for a faster timeline. If we lose this supplier, it will cost us $25 per widget from XYZ company and their current lead time is 10 weeks, which will guarantee us a worse delay than letting ABC do their thing as agreed. I will intervene if the shipment is delayed but I will otherwise abide by the contract.” Perhaps the person in Oregon needs to back you up, too.

        If manager is new, consider walking them through the process of selecting a vendor and reassure them that this is a good price for a quality product and rushing might impact the quality of your own products down the line. There’s the old saying that you can get fast, good, or cheap, but not all three.

        I wouldn’t say it’s not my skillset because that just makes them think of replacing you and isn’t the full scope of the problem anyway.

    8. Kay*

      There are a number of comments here on how to address this – but have you considered – simply not going back to your vendors? When your overseas contact pushes for a better deal/updated timeframe/other unreasonable thing can you simply give them a “I’ll see what I can do”, never contact the vendor (because you thought about it and see that renegotiating a contract is absurd and saw that therefore there was nothing you could do), and when it comes up again say “that is what the price/terms will be”? It is kinda stepping over the missing stair, but if the other advice doesn’t work, and they don’t ever get that that isn’t how things are done here – I would do this. No emotion, no stress, just the expectation you will get asked, you will not worry yourself over it, and things will continue on.

      1. A reader among many*

        Functionally, this seems like it would work (just don’t do the unnecessary thing that would create problems!), but Culture Shift would then be in trouble if management ever asked to see the communications between them and the vendors. Especially since their team seems frustrated by this situation that they don’t understand, that seems like it could happen.

    9. Friday Person*

      I apologize that I don’t have any useful suggestions, just wanted to add my sympathy for your asking a question ending with “I’m looking for higher-level help and not just suggestions for this one thing” and immediately getting half a dozen suggestions about the one thing.

    10. IDI*

      Our organization has been using the intercultural development inventory as a way to measure our culture competence. It’s a helpful tool for how to think about different culture and live in a cross-cultural environment. It might not be as specific as you’re looking for, but it might be a starting place to assess where you are, where your teams / management is, and to think about how to bridge that divide.

    11. Aerin*

      A quick search for “resources for adapting to indian business culture” yielded quite a bit. You might also focus on a key term of “building trust” since that’s generally a big thing and will help you long-term.

      One major tip: take “no” out of your vocabulary. Instead, “they’ll see what they can do.” It might also help to give your vendors a bit of heads up (off the record if at all possible) that a bit of haggling or prodding is an expected formality and they’re free to say no (or give a similarly appeasing answer) without any hard feelings.

      In general, I’ve found working with South Asian users rather similar to working with New Yorkers. Their communication can be somewhat loud and strident, but that doesn’t mean there’s any sort of malice or negative emotions behind it. It can take a bit of retraining yourself not to respond to things like volume and body language the same way you would from someone in your usual context.

    12. Is it Friday yet?*

      I read Culture Map, which was hugely helpful in my work with colleagues from other countries. That might be a start. The author’s site also has a free tool to map two countries so you can see the cultural differences among many aspects, like directness of feedback, hierarchy, etc.

  3. BRR*

    I had a phone screen yesterday with someone from HR and they would say “yeah” or “yup” literally every 3 to 4 seconds while I was answering a question. And this was at their full speaking volume during every answer. I’m assuming they wanted to show they were listening but it was incredibly difficult. I plowed through it and I think I did ok, but in the fantasy world in my head I would have gone “excuse me, I’m speaking.” Would you have said something in this situation?

    1. Blue Pen*

      No, I wouldn’t have said anything I know it’s annoying, but rarely is it done in an intentionally malicious way.

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      Absolutely not! You want to make a good impression on them, calling out a verbal tic is not a good impression.

    3. UnCivilServant*

      I don’t think calling it out would have had a positive impact. It sounds like an ingrained habit, and from your position, I expect the conversation would have gone poorly for you rather than made them change their active listening indicator to be more subdued.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      I would have found it annoying but not said anything (in the moment or after).

      I do find it tough to signal “I’m listening” on phone calls sometimes, because I can’t silently nod/look engaged like I can in person (or on video calls). But every 3 or 4 seconds is way too frequent for an “I’m still listening” sound on a phone call!

      1. College Career Counselor*

        Agreed. No real advice, but commiseration here. I have a colleague who nods and says, “yup,” “uh huh,” etc. almost constantly during meetings in response to anyone speaking. It’s hard to take that person seriously, and they’re at the VP level.

    5. RagingADHD*

      I certainly wouldn’t have said something combative like “excuse me, I’m speaking,” since they were clearly trying to demonstrate positive engagement.

      If it were actually derailing my train of thought so that I felt I couldn’t express myself, I might say something like, “sorry, I’m having trouble concentrating, could I ask you to hold your responses till I get all the way through?”

      But I feel like that would still make too much of it, unless it was really impossible for me to finish my thought.

    6. CTT*

      Making someone focus on what’s probably an unconscious verbal tic is a great way to make sure they don’t pay attention to what you’re saying in the interview.

    7. Mermaid of the Lunacy*

      Since it was a phone screen I probably wouldn’t have done anything, but if it was a conversation with a peer who had that habit I would stop every time they said “yup” and say, “Sorry, did you say something?” Repeat ad nauseum until they learn to zip it. LOL

    9. Ellis Bell*

      No, if it was as off-putting as you say I might have said something, but your phrasing sounds a bit too pissed off and blunt. It’s pretty common to say yes, or yep to show interest but I totally get that they were off rhythm and actually interrupting rather than responding. Some things I have tried are: pausing every time they interrupt and saying “Sorry, I’m afraid you threw me off track there. What was I saying?/Oh yes, I was saying…” This signals that they’re causing a problem with the interruptions and also if they’re trying to hurry you up they’ll realise it’s just slowing you down (however, saying sorry to a rude person might be too British for you). It’s worth considering if your answers were brief enough for them, as it’s a common way to hurry people up, but every three seconds does sound a bit excessive and rude.

      1. Kay*

        “..I’m afraid you threw me off there..” is far too accusatory and unnecessary. “Sorry, I got thrown off there..” doesn’t blame your interviewer. That being said – it would have to be an extreme situation for me to say anything at all (like the volume was through the roof or there was reverberating feedback – and I would name that), so “Sorry, it seems like I’m getting some feedback on my line that threw me off, my apologies, where was I?”.

        Making your interviewer feel bad doesn’t exactly say “I’m a team player who realizes things happen in life, can make the best of a less than ideal situation and know how to build good working relationships with others”, if you know what I mean.

    10. Not A Manager*

      “Would you have said something in this situation?”

      YUP!

      Haha, jk, no I wouldn’t. But still…

    11. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

      I know what you mean. I have a relative-in-law who does this and it only makes me feel hurried-up! But I know that’s not how they mean it, plus I don’t see them that often. Plus I actually like them.

      1. stratospherica*

        Yep. I live in a country where if you’re not making some kind of “I’m listening” noise every four or five seconds, people will think you’re not listening. It took some getting used to but now I do it involuntarily in English too.

    13. Charley*

      Sounds like a cultural mismatch between a ‘cooperative overlapping’ style of speech and not that. I would let it go.

      1. JR17*

        This. Google conversation maintenance. Super culturally specific (and often gendered). From their perspective, they’re demonstrating that they’re paying attention, connecting, etc. From yours, just distracting. Two different styles, neither right or wrong.

    14. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      I had to deal w a client 2 or 3 times in one week who, the whole time I answered his questions and explained what he needed to do, he said nonstop, “Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.” It was maddening to have to listen to, for one thing. In addition, I soon realized he wasn’t indicating that he understood what I was telling him. I couldn’t tell him to knock it off, so I just had to put up w it. Boo. I never talked w him again after that week, so I assume he retired and was no longer our client. whew!

  4. What is going on??*

    I work on an in-house marketing team at a company that was purchased by an equity firm several months ago. Upper management has told our team that the board is happy with our marketing efforts. We’re a small team and they know that we have a lot on our plates. Sooo…about 2 weeks ago my boss (“Andy”) and Andy’s boss (“Mark”) told our team that the new equity firm is bringing on a contractor from an external agency to help manage some of the campaigns so we aren’t so swamped, this is for a 3-month contract. Mark assures us that the board is extremely happy with us and we’re not being replaced. In fact, we might add another team member next year! (!).

    Then this past Monday my boss Andy gave his two week notice for his “dream job that fell into his lap”. Based on what he said about his new role and company, it does seem like it’s what he wants to do, but it’s very similar to what our company does and his current role. See, I really like Andy because he knows what he’s doing and is a great boss. Meanwhile Mark sucks. He, and the rest of upper management, don’t listen to Andy and blow him off. I can see why Andy is leaving, because Mark is awful and has Andy working like a horse and offers zero help, he’s also not forthcoming with information and can be sneaky and sexist. Mark mentioned that we had a new recruiter starting and he was starting next week so we would get the job posting up asap.

    Well yesterday on LinkedIn I saw that our recruiter “Gina” had the “open to work” banner on her profile, and this morning she posted about how she lost her job last week. No one at my company has even mentioned she was no longer with the company and we got a new recruiter. I don’t know if she was laid off or fired but the news shocked me to my core. She was very well liked across the company, she was close with the exec team, so kind and friendly to everyone and she was active on our Slack channels. She brought on many people to the company and we have several open job reqs so it’s not like we’re in a hiring freeze, and they have a new recruiter picked out! She was the last person I expected this to happen to.

    I know this is a lot and could be a few separate posts, but I’m trying to process all this. I don’t trust Mark at all and I don’t like working with him. I’ve only been at my job for 1.5 years and wanted to try to stay another few years. I originally thought I could see how Andy’s replacement went, but now I’m worried they’ll get rid of us after this 3-month contract is up at the start of the new year. Of course, all the timing could be a coincidence and no one can predict the future, but oof!

    What are all y’alls thoughts on this?

      1. Tio*

        +1

        Andy left because the working environment was bad. I doubt the job “fell into his lap”; he was looking. You should be too, because even if you get a new Andy, Mark is still gonna be Mark.

        2. Beth*

          Yes–when things ‘fall in your lap’, in my experience, it’s because you’ve been out there telling people “My lap is open! Please put something in it!” OP, it sounds like it’s time to do your own version of that. Let your friends know that work feels unstable and bad right now. Reach out to old colleagues to reconnect, and ask them to keep you in mind if their team has an opening. If you have a past manager you loved, see where they’re at now and whether they’re hiring. It’s much easier to have an opportunity ‘fall into your lap’ when a bunch of people know you want to be thrown whatever they have.

      2. mreasy*

        Yeah, anytime a PE firm buys a company there’s risk… and given these indications, I would recommend looking. I’m sorry.

        2. AnotherOne*

          yeah, a friend of mine worked for a company that was partially bought by a VC firm. She loved it there the first couple of years…until the investors came in.

          it became the quarterly firing. the executive team essentially had to show certain numbers and growth, the best way to do that was getting rid of people and expecting the remaining people to do all the work and less staff.

          it got so bad that people wanted to be on the chopping block because they just didn’t want to be there anymore.

      3. MsM*

        Ditto. You can hold out for stuff you really want as opposed to anything that will get you out of there ASAP, but I’d at least start exploring.

      5. Antilles*

        The red flags started in the very first sentence of “equity firm”. There are some cases where an equity firm gets control and it works out well for the company, but even in those cases, it rarely works out well for individual employees – especially those who are junior/mid-level.
        And then I read the rest of the letter and everything else just confirms that initial impression.

    2. Friday Hopeful*

      Call Andy and set up a coffee with him, ask him about prospects for jobs at his new company. It sounds like you definitely should be looking.

      1. Trout 'Waver*

        100% agree. Invite him for coffee. I like the phrasing, “I enjoyed working with you and would love to do so in the future. Please keep me in mind if you have any projects that require a $job_title.”

        1. Momma Bear*

          This, especially in a small industry a lot of resumes get across the desk by recommendation.

      2. Jen MaHRtini*

        Tread carefully with this and don’t put anything in email. Andy almost certainly has a non-interference agreement precluding him from recruiting his former employer’s people for at least a year.

        1. Generic Name*

          Yes, but the agreement doesn’t cover OP. I was on the other side of this in that I was the person who left and a former coworker reached out to me about a job listing at my company. I was delighted she had reached out, but I told her that I had signed an agreement so officially I couldn’t have any opinion. I kept myself out of her hiring process (I normally interview candidates for my department). It was a good thing that I had her text message where she approached my so if my old company decided to sue, I could have used that as proof that I did not “solicit” her.

        2. What is going on??*

          Based on what he told me, I don’t really want to go to his next company. They have a bad PTO policy, and his role is a new role. I think he’s just trying to get out of our company, or of course he’s not great at vetting new companies! lol.

        3. Junior Assistant Peon*

          I only ever signed a non-poaching agreement as part of a severance, and it sounds like he quit voluntarily.

          1. Trout 'Waver*

            I’ve signed one as part of a comprehensive NDA. My lawyer friend said it’s likely not enforceable, but I wouldn’t want to test it. I was compensated for signing it.

      3. Festively Dressed Earl*

        I think this is the best idea in general – start touching base frequently with Andy, with Gina, and with others in your professional network. Polish and update your resume. And ask yourself – if Mark was the next one to go, how would that affect your job? Would you be more willing to stay, or be even more nervous that your position would be next on the chopping block?

    3. Bike Walk Barb*

      I’ve never been in this exact scenario but I’d start updating your resume and responding to interesting postings. Warm up your relationship with your professional network and check in with people you would list as a reference with a “hey, thinking about how much I enjoyed working with you, here’s what I’ve been able to accomplish recently thanks to the things I learned from you” (or whatever–something with a soft touch that tells them about new skills or recent accomplishments).

      Basically, hedge against the potential that the equity firm thinks they can squeeze out profit by downsizing. Andy may have heard something he’s not sharing that told him it’s time to jump so check in with him too.

    4. 3-Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

      Job search. If things are better in 3 months, you don’t have to move anywhere. If things go south in 3 months, you’ve protected yourself.

    5. A Simple Narwhal*

      Honestly? Start looking for another job. All of this has alarm bells ringing in my head and my impression is that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

      I know you were hoping to stay longer but getting acquired is an incredibly valid reason for looking. As someone who left a job with nothing lined up after an acquisition made my job hell, anytime an interviewer asked why I left/was looking for a new job, telling them that an acquisition led to instability and negative changes, everyone always just nodded their heads or went “yup that makes sense”, so I wouldn’t worry too much about your short-ish stint.

      Plus job hunting always takes a while so by the time you find one you might hit the 2 year mark anyway, and if things go south at the end of the year you already have a head start. Good luck! I know changes at work are stressful and not fun.

    7. ArtK*

      Bringing in contractors to “help” is a yellow flag; an equity company makes it very bright red. Start searching now and don’t feel one iota of guilt about leaving.

      I personally saw this at a previous job. New management and the VP was bragging about how he was best buddies with the heads of several contracting firms. I bailed soon after that, but several of my friends didn’t and got laid off as more and more work went to the contractors.

    8. Momma Bear*

      I’d dust off my resume. I think Andy was the canary and you should at least start looking even if you don’t take the first offer.

      Of course Gina could have been fired for something you don’t know, but it makes me wonder if this is part of a larger plan to clear the decks, especially if the new company feels certain people were loyal to certain old company execs. Years back my little company got absorbed by a much larger company and they said they’d keep things the same. About 6 months in we were looking at slashed benefits (including PTO being capped at 2 weeks less per year) and replacement of several key/leadership people so the new company could bring in their own staff. If your gut says to worry, listen and start being proactive so you’re not caught flat if it happens.

    9. Bruce*

      As an engineer my observation has been that Marketing and Sales are often replaced after any ownership change, leadership in those areas seems to be very feudal and want to bring in their own teams. So beware and good hunting!

    10. I Have RBF*

      Holy drain-circler, Batman!

      PE buyouts are seldom good for the company bought, and even more seldom for existing employees. The “reassurances” accompanied by a contractor to “help” you for three months means that they are looking to get rid of all of you after three months, then outsource the work to the contractor you are training.

      Andy leaving and the recruiter Gina suddenly gone? More warnings that your company is about to be gutted, money extracted, and your IP/contracts sold to the highest bidder.

      Private equity/vulture capitalists are the vampires of the corporate world. They buy companies, load them up with debt, sell of their assets, extract the cash, fire the employees, then drop what’s left adrift into bankruptcy, having almost literally sucking the lifeblood (money and IP) out of it.

      Run.

      Private equity buyout is an RGE – resume generating event. Start hunting. The odds that everything will be fine for more than six months are slim, and even more so for a year.

      Sorry to be so cynical, but PE is a big red flag in my book.

    11. Middle Name Jane*

      Oof, I’m sorry. These are red flags, and I think you should start a job hunt now. Better to be prepared and get ahead if they are letting people go.

    12. Asdf*

      Been at a company purchased by PE firm. They may not say it on the surface but their job is to make the company more profitable in any way possible. Layoffs are common and sudden. Pay increases are harder to come by and benefits generally are reduced. Bringing in a contractor to assess the situation and report back to them is a yellow flag whether your role/team can be outsourced or headcount reduced. Only you can know how things look on the inside, but from the outside I’d say start looking for your next gig.

    14. Chauncy Gardener*

      Oh yes. You need to leave IMHO. Retaining bad people and good folks are leaving in droves (or being fired?). GTFO ASAP.

  5. my cat is prettier than me*

    A few times in the past couple months, I’ve had food go missing from the company fridge. We were able to determine that it was one of our overnight security guys. My boss discovered that the employee was temporarily homeless, and bought him a lot a food and put it in the security office. At the same time, I got a lock for my lunch box, and the theft stopped.

    I’m really torn on the situation. On the one hand, food insecurity is awful and I feel bad that the employee was experiencing that. On the other hand, he was stealing my food (and only my food). I have food security, but I’m not really swimming in money. I also have ARFID (an eating disorder), and he was stealing my “safe food.” My boss and our COO kind of treated it like one big joke.

    The situation is resolved, but I still feel weird about it. I guess I’m not really looking for advice, just thinking out loud.

    1. I'm Monica but wished I was Phoebe*

      Sometimes you just have to let this be an experience in life that doesn’t require a lot of thought, discourse, or solution as you noted. personally, my sympathies would go towards their shelter and food insecurity. A lock on your lunch box makes perfect sense regardless.

      It’d be nice to know that leadership talks to this person and let them know that this isn’t how to solve their situation.

    2. mreasy*

      I’m glad that leadership has done something. I wonder if the person has tastes similar to your ARFID needs and just learned to prefer your foods when facing desperation/hunger, hence the targeting.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      Two things can be true! The security guy was in a bad way (food security-wise), and his “solution” had a negative impact on you. An impact that was worse (because of ARFID) than if he had been stealing a can-and-will-eat-anything coworker’s food.

      Sorry that your boss and COO treated your stolen food like a joke, that’s a jerk move on both their parts.

      I am glad to hear that the original issue was resolved on both ends–he got the food he needed, and now your food is secure from future thefts.

    4. Kimchi*

      The unspoken question is, “Should I feel bad about him when it was affecting me negatively?”
      Yes, he was in a tight spot, but stealing your food was NOT OKAY. Especially not with your circumstances. Remember that two wrongs never make a right, even if it got him to a better situation. And you can be glad he’s in a better situation, while also being miffed about him messing with your safe food.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        For all he knows, you are also having problems affording food. Making this your problem without your knowledge or consent was not okay.

    5. Tio*

      Yeah, this just kind of sucks all around. I also have ARFID and I’ve always been kinda careful and nervous about protecting my food. Also, the boss and COO could use a little compassion here – even without knowing about the ARFID they must know someone has food insecurity and they’re treating it like a joke. I’m glad they got it stopped, but come on.

      On an ARFID related topic, my boss just invited us all to lunch at a restaurant he knows I can’t eat anything at… again. (I have camouflaged my ARFID under one of my other issues, but he does still know I can’t eat there because he already did it once and I told him.) He’s overall a good guy, but this is starting to bother me.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I personally think the sting about things like this is the constant demeaning, misunderstanding, and ‘othering’ of ARFID (and for me, other neurodivergent things) – having your food choices/needs chuckled at or joked about, having to skip yet another team lunch, defending your same lunch every day… it’s just a constant trickle of feeling othered, and it erodes your sense of self a bit.
        Sorry your boss sucks and doesn’t understand, both Tio and My Cat

        1. Jill Swinburne*

          This is across the board, unfortunately. I’m vegetarian and have had people at work meals pointedly apologise to me for ordering meat. I do not care. People are extremely strange about what other people eat.

        2. ThatOtherClare*

          The foodie on our team started picking on someone (who I’m pretty sure has ARFID, based on a couple of things) for eating ham and cheese sandwiches every day, so I started turning it back on him by saying ‘Hey, not everyone has the luxury of enough time and money to make fancy gourmet lunches every single day. Some of us have work to do’.

          He has blue collar roots and likes to think of himself as still ‘one of the hard-working little guys’, so it only took a few days of pointing out his ‘rich’ tastes before the ‘banter’ petered out entirely. Not a word about diets had to be said. Very satisfying.

    6. EA*

      This is a tough stiuation, but I actually feel like this was handled really well all around, except the part of your boss treating it as a joke – but I wonder if that was your perception (which is understandable!), while your boss might have been trying to downplay the issue for other reasons. I understand why you feel weird and annoyed about it, but I’d just try to move on.

      1. anon for this one*

        I lean this way as well. Without doubting OP’s perception that their eating disorder was treated as a joke (btw my teen has ARFID; it is real) I wonder – since the outcome was that the person stealing experienced consequences and the issue was overall addressed – if the “joking” may have been an awkward attempt to make it feel like less of a big deal for OP. Happy it was resolved and hope it stays that way.

        1. my cat is prettier than me*

          To be clear, I didn’t tell my boss about ARFID. He was joking about the food theft.

          2. Oui oui oui all the way home*

            Very smart to keep it to yourself! His joking about food theft would make me feel unsafe about disclosing my own food issues.

    7. Pay no attention...*

      So, when my office had a thief that turned out to be the night custodian, management made sure that everyone who had food or items stolen was made whole on the theft… it was honor system because all of the theft was petty and no one would have a receipt/proof of a missing USB cord, quarters in a drawer for the vending machine, yogurt, can of soda, etc. Your boss shouldn’t be treating the theft (breach of trust and security) as a joke and you shouldn’t be responsible for buying a lock for your lunch box.

    8. Ann O'Nemity*

      It sounds like you’re processing some conflicting emotions about the situation, and that’s totally understandable. On one hand, the empathy you feel for someone experiencing food insecurity is admirable. It’s clear you want to be compassionate. On the other hand, the fact that it impacted your personal food, especially considering your ARFID, adds a layer of complexity that’s uniquely challenging for you.

      Your boss and COO helped the security employee, but what did they do for you? Did they make you whole? Did they compensate your losses or pay for the lock? No, they treated it as a joke. I’d be miffed too.

      1. A Simple Narwhal*

        This exactly. You can have compassion for someone in a desperate and terrible situation, and it’s wonderful that your bosses stepped up to help them out. But they also should have made you whole too, not joked around and ignored that you also were going hungry, while having to incur expenses to prevent from going hungry again.

        1. goddessoftransitory*

          This sums it up beautifully. You and your bosses can feel bad about the person’s situation, but that doesn’t mean his circumstances are worthy of concern and yours aren’t.

    9. Indolent Libertine*

      I saw this a while back on Captain Awkward. It appeared in a different context, about creepy behavior and whether “being socially awkward” should be a get-out-0f-jail-free card for same, but I think it’s applicable here.

      “If you step on my foot, you need to get off my foot.
      If you step on my foot without meaning to, you need to get off my foot.
      If you step on my foot without realizing it, you need to get off my foot.
      If everyone in your culture steps on feet, your culture is horrible, and you need to get off my foot.
      If you have foot-stepping disease, and it makes you unaware you’re stepping on feet, you need to get off my foot…”

      He was stepping on your foot. His being homeless and hungry didn’t negate the fact that his stealing your food had a negative impact on you. You’re allowed to feel violated and imposed upon and insist that it stop, regardless of whether there were reasons behind it.

      And I’m sorry that the higher-ups treated it like a joke.

      1. DawnShadow*

        Yes! and I need to re-read some old Captain Awkward. I love her. Still waiting for the book!

    10. Trout 'Waver*

      You got the outcome you wanted; you just didn’t get it the way you wanted. Take the W.

      1. ddddone*

        Actually, I don’t think so? They never reimbursed the OP and made them whole for the stolen lunches. In fact, OP is out-of-pocket for having to buy a lock for their lunch box.

        Also, they never apologized for the fact that OP had to SKIP lunches some days. As someone who gets hangry, that would have made me furious.

      2. goddessoftransitory*

        It’s not really a win if her concerns are treated as funny. She wasn’t calling for the guy’s head on a pike; just not to have “my food is being taken repeatedly” treated as a joke.

    11. Ellis Bell*

      I think this is a great reminder to leaders to be sensitive to things that happen to employees/employee’s belongings at work, and that it doesn’t take long to just check in and ask people if they are okay. Also, to not assume that because you wouldn’t mind a lunch going missing, the employee wouldn’t mind and it’s all a funny ha ha joke. I don’t have an eating disorder, but if my safe-for-my-allergy lunch goes missing, I’m going to have a miserable, faint headed day. I think the only way I wouldn’t be furious is if it was for something like someone struggling with food security, but understanding that isn’t going to magically undo the feelings or the day of wondering why someone took my stuff. You also just feel a bit violated when someone takes something of yours, especially if it’s private or personal to you. One time our cameras at work caught some boys going through my teacher trolley; luckily I didn’t feel violated because I only had professional stuff in there and none of it was confidential, but my leadership was really concerned for me and checked in with me even though nothing was taken. The boys in question were actually hungry too, and looking for something to eat, but that didn’t cause anyone to treat it as a joke, funnily enough.

    12. Festively Dressed Earl*

      You’re allowed to be irked at someone who did you wrong, even if they’re in a bad situation. In a way, stealing your lunch is like stealing someone’s medication. Feel what you’re feeling; it doesn’t make you a bad person. Try to pinpoint exactly why each person’s actions bother you, what they should have done differently/better, and how you’d want them to act going forward in order to regain your trust.

      Now take 5 deep breaths and go do something that calms/soothes you. We’ll wait.

      Back? Awesome. Look at the list again, pragmatically this time. Is it possible that you could let any of these people know why this bothers you? Is there anything else they could still do to remedy this? It’s possible the answer is no; people don’t always respond how we want them to, and there’s a very real possibility of being painted as the bad guy or making work awkward. Do you think you’ll be able to forgive this eventually on your own? Can you think of any other way of framing this that would eliminate the weird feeling? Again, possibly no and only time will fix this.

      If it helps, I get how crappy it is when you feel obligated to accept bad behavior because the wrongdoer is in a bad position. Empathy makes you feel guilt about your natural, angry reaction, and then you get to be even madder. But to quote Lawyer Barbie: “I have no difficulty holding both logic and emotion at the same time and that does not diminish my powers; it expands them.”

      P.S. It’s possible that after you finish sorting all this, you’ll find yourself steaming at the fact that your coworker is in this spot in the first place. If so, a volunteer shift at a shelter or food bank can combat feeling helpless, but ymmv.

    13. Seashell*

      Even if you were swimming in money, this wasn’t a good thing for him to do. There are plenty of reasons that people need to have food available, such as if they need to take medication with food, if they need to keep their blood sugar stable, or if they have specific dietary needs that aren’t going to work with what’s in the neighborhood.

      Maybe the others were joking about it because they felt awkward about it.

    14. Sylvia*

      I would feel weird about it too. The fact that the boss and COO are fine with the security guard stealing from a staff member who also has limited resources is off-putting. They sign your checks and know how much you’re paid. You have every right to have strong feelings about the theft and their reaction.

      If they really want to help their employees, they should consider paying them more, creating an employee resource center, or at least offering a pay advance if someone is having an emergency. My husband’s company allows their employees to request a portion of their paycheck in advance for hours they’ve already worked.

    15. Middle Name Jane*

      Two things can be true–you can feel empathy for this man who was going through a bad time and didn’t have enough to eat AND you can be upset that your food was stolen. It’s not an either/or thing. Totally understandable to have a lock for your lunchbox.

    16. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      You don’t need to feel weird about it.

      Someone in a position of trust STOLE from you. Anyone would feel angry about that.

      And it wasn’t an item you could live without, like a desk knickknack; they took something you NEEDED–your food–esp. as you have special dietary needs.

  6. betsybug*

    My employer recently started using a matrix for interviews/hiring. For some reason, it’s making me really uncomfortable. A couple of things that I can actually explain are the fact that all categories are evenly weighted regardless of the role (e.g., our Building and Maintenance Techs who don’t even their own computers get the same points for computer skills as our data team or IT). Kind of in the same vein but something I feel very strongly about is the fact that there is a line for education (again, regardless of the role) and I just don’t think that getting a PhD actually adds value to most of our roles (I can only think of a couple that are actually served by a Master’s even) so I don’t think people should get additional points just because they have more formal education; especially, when there are so many issues with higher education, access and underserved communities in the US.

    I am wondering if anyone is familiar with any studies related to using matrices or rubrics for hiring and their effectiveness in mitigating bias (the reason they have implemented this) or even folks’ anecdotal experience. I am totally open to hearing that my concerns are unfounded/just my own issues. I am not in HR so I am not familiar with research or resources in this area but I do a fair amount of hiring.

    1. UnCivilServant*

      That sounds like a facepalmingly poor implementation of a method for improving merit-based hiring.

      I’ve seen it done where the matrix is drawn up for a given position and all candidates rated against the requirements of the job, but rating candidates for all jobs against the same metrics is not going to get you the best person for any job.

      1. MsSolo (UK)*

        Yes, this has a strong feeling of someone who’s found a general matrix online and is using it as a template for everything, instead of having hiring managers pick out the 3-5 aspects they need to score on, laying those out in the advert, and only scoring applications and interviews against those (which is important, because part of the equity element is that you shouldn’t be scoring on anything unrelated to the role, like the possession of a PhD when it’s not needed, because that’s reintroducing bias)

      2. anonymous anteater*

        totally agree.
        There is research showing that a matrix, based on clearly defined criteria can reduce bias. This needs to happen before any applications are reviewed, so as not to inadvertently tailor criteria to a particular applicant or type of person. Also, it really should be the start of the process so you incorporate those criteria in the job posting, which increases your chances of getting suitable applicants.
        But not tailoring the matrix to the role is ridiculous. Also, there is still potential for bias when scoring each applicant, so relying on perfect objectivity because you used a matrix is dangerous.
        There is a great comprehensive hiring guide from the university of Wisconsin, that refers to a lot of the relevant research, from page 51 they talk about selecting candidates. Just ignore the parts that are very specific to academia.
        https://wiseli.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/662/2018/11/SearchBook_Wisc.pdf

    2. Miss Patty*

      Applicant screening grids can be very helpful in reducing bias if used in the right way. Like another commenter mentioned, each screening grid should be drawn up and customized to reflect the unique qualifications of each individual job. Only people who already meet the minimum required qualifications should be placed on the screening grid, which is used to narrow down applicants using preferred qualifications and experience to see who is going to be invited to an interview.

      There is data out there that shows that requiring college degrees for jobs that don’t really require it can result in a disparate impact against minority applicants. More and more it is recommended to really scrutinize educations requirements to see if they are really required or preferred in order to do the job. If you have any kind of influence with your employer, you could express your concerns that you may be missing out on great candidates because the scale is weighted unfairly in favor of those with irrelevant education and experience (like PhDs), or you could approach from the “avoiding litigation risk” angle and share information that shows the unfair impact of these hiring practices on certain minority groups.

    3. Cordelia*

      it really sounds like your employer has misunderstood the point of matrices! We do use something similar but a different one would be drawn up for each job role. We’d only give extra points for PhD’s, for example, if that would genuinely be an asset in the specific role. The level of computer skills required would be different for each job role and the matrix would reflect this. If used for a maintenance technician, I assume (I don’t hire for these roles) ours would have extra points given for specific relevant maintenance skills, that an IT professional would be unlikely to achieve. Using the same matrix for each role is nonsensical!

    4. spcepickle*

      We use a matrix / scoring template for all our hiring. But it is based on the job descriptions. It really just means we ask each candidate the same (job based) questions and then score them. Using one matrix for every job is silly for the reasons you stated.

    5. Margaret Cavendish*

      so I don’t think people should get additional points just because they have more formal education; especially, when there are so many issues with higher education, access and underserved communities in the US.

      You should definitely lean on this. It’s a DEI issue, as it has a disproportionate impact on women and racialized people. It’s more than just people with degrees scoring higher in the interview – it’s that people without degrees will be screened out before they even apply.

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        Yes and you can look in a couple of places to back this up.

        1) State licensure and/or certifications for roles. Some state certifications don’t require a degree, therefore the employer shouldn’t be either.

        2) Professional designation organizations. I know the organization for my field reduced education requirements two years ago and now consider experience-in-lieu.

    6. House On The Rock*

      As others have said, this is not the way these tools are supposed to be used! My organization recommends using them, but basing it on the required qualifications for the specific job (they recommend not even scoring on “desired”, and certainly not for the first round of screenings).

      If you are in charge of hiring, you definitely have standing to push back on this. I’d also actively ignore areas that are not directly applicable to the job. So for “educational level”, if you don’t see an advantage to have an advanced degree, give everyone the same score/no score so it’s a wash. But really, raise this with HR as not only misguided but also a big equity red flag!

    7. Bike Walk Barb*

      What everyone else said about a matrix being appropriate if it’s tuned to the actual job requirements and developed in advance of reviewing any applications so no one puts a thumb on the scale for a favorite candidate. Our HR requires us to develop it for each position and they review it before we use it. We can only score job-relevant items that were listed in the position description. We can choose *which* items to include, and we can weight some higher than others.

      The other side of this is questioning whether the minimum qualifications in the job serve a specific purpose, since the matrix should align with the minimum quals. I’m in a public agency full of people with various professional credentials. As an element of our DEI/anti-racism plan, we’re asked to review minimum quals and remove things that are barriers to entry that aren’t genuinely job related. I was already doing this and am glad it’s spreading.

      Examples of requirements we’ve changed:
      – No requirement for a driver’s license unless the job itself requires driving as a named task. (DL requirement embeds implicit bias against people who have a disability that means they can’t drive; they can’t even apply for the job)
      – Giving credit for volunteer and lived experience as well as paid experience (some learning curve here for HR who does the first cut; I’ve asked them simply to be generous and over-include and we’ll screen out candidates as needed)
      – Deleting college degree requirements unless that’s an element of getting a required license, and including associate’s degrees as well as bachelor’s degrees as an educational credential

      We also include bilingualism as a preferred qualification. We have a legal requirement for language access to essential public documents/information and if I can recruit a bilingual staff person I increase our ability to address that requirement. If they get certified as a qualified translator/interpreter and I write it into the job description as a required task they also get a 5% pay bump. I haven’t yet gone that route but bilingualism as a preferred qualification is a welcome mat for a more diverse pool of applicants.

    8. betsybug*

      Thanks to everyone for your insight. You’ve articulated much more clearly what my concerns are. I let my boss (CFO) know that I don’t think they are a good idea how they are currently implemented.

      I think an added benefit of doing job-specific rubrics is that we would need to clearly articulate the specific skills that are required for the job. Something I think we’re pretty bad at right now.

      1. linger*

        Ah yes! Not properly spelling out the skill requirements for positions is exactly how you get a one-size-fits-nobody matrix being applied to all positions.
        So you’re right, specifying the actual requirements needs to be done first — and moreover, put clearly into the wording of the job ad itself so that it can do some of the selection work for you (Do the present job ads just avoid all relevant details?) — before making any hiring decision.

  7. Jane*

    I’ve just started working in the federal government and it’s been explained to me that most office workers aren’t as “active” on Fridays as they are during the normal work week. I have coworkers who have said that they don’t like sending certain things on Fridays, like training requirements or other tasks, because there’s a general understanding that Fridays are for catching up and doing light admin work rather than getting down to brass tacks.

    My perception is that I could get a lot done on Fridays and I don’t actually like feeling as if no one is available for substantive questions, or feeling like I can’t fire off an email if necessary; I also don’t like the emails on Monday or Tuesday from people implying that things are now a “rush” because we’ve all collectively decided that Friday doesn’t count anymore. So how much can I avoid to buck the norm without everyone getting mad? I feel like I’d rather receive a couple of emails during normal business hours on a Friday rather than having them sent super early on a Monday morning, but maybe that’s literally just me.

    1. Kesnit*

      Former Federal employee here.
      Yes, Friday’s are typically more laid back days. That doesn’t mean no work gets done on Fridays. It just means that things are moving a little slower that day. Feel free to fire off an email; no one is going to be angry if you reach out that day. And take advantage of the fact that people aren’t pushing you to work on things for your own workload.

    2. Friday Hopeful*

      Who is telling you this? Is it just a few people you work with or the whole agency? I would do you and not worry about the culture, especially if it is coming from the immediate people around you. If they don’t answer promptly that’s on them, not you.

      1. Jane*

        It’s been both people from my agency (within my department and in my/other units) and another I work closely with.

      2. ThatGirl*

        I would generally agree with “do you” but also… temper your expectations. If someone doesn’t get back to you ASAP or with the same sense of urgency you have that’s just the way it is.

        1. Jane*

          I don’t have as much of a problem with people not getting back to me ASAP, it’s them getting irritated or surprised that I’m reaching out on a Friday.

          1. Michelle Smith*

            Can you not schedule the emails on Friday to be sent on Monday? It seems like it would be easier to try and adopt the culture of the office you’re working in rather than continuing to surprise or annoy people.

            1. Bike Walk Barb*

              I’m in a state agency, not federal. While Fridays are lighter in that people working 4 10s aren’t in, there’s no expectation that we hold off moving something along by transmitting an email. Personally I’d really loathe a Monday morning in-box full of things all scheduled to be transmitted at 8am, especially if I can guess they wrote it Friday.

          2. ThatGirl*

            As much as I like to also take Fridays to catch up, do deeper work and just chill a bit, I can’t imagine getting irritated at someone who IS reaching out. As long as you’re not scheduling meetings. :)

            1. Blue Pen*

              I don’t work for the federal government, but I think higher education is pretty similar in pace. I wouldn’t say that anyone would get mad or annoyed with you for contacting them on a Friday, but—and barring an emergency, which is so rare it’s almost not worth bringing up—I almost never expect an immediate reply.

              Email aside, though, I can assure you that you’re going to draw a few raised eyebrows if you schedule Friday meetings—especially after lunchtime. Nothing ticks me off more than a 2 pm (or later) Friday afternoon meeting.

          3. Carla*

            I like Michelle Smith’s suggestion. You could also try, if you do send things on Friday, adding a friendly line or phrase indicating you’re not expecting a response right away. Like you, I would much prefer getting the emails on Friday than all in a rush Monday morning, but maybe if people are used to operating that way, they’re assuming your Friday emails are just as urgent.

          4. WantonSeedStitch*

            Frame it as a favor: “Hey, I’m not expecting a response on this until next week, but I wanted to give you time to think about it so you don’t feel rushed on Monday.”

    3. MsSolo (UK)*

      I can’t speak for the US, but in the UK people who work part time or compressed hours often has Friday as their non working day (and if people are taking leave they’ll time it around weekends, so are more likely to be on leave on a Friday than a Wednesday), so it’s quieter because there’s fewer people around overall. My inbox is quieter today, but there’s no weirdness about sending emails on a Friday as long as you know the reply won’t come any quicker, in most cases, than if you sent it on Monday.

      1. londonedit*

        I was going to say much the same. There’s an unspoken rule where I work that you don’t arrange internal meetings for Fridays, and we have a lot of people who either work four days a week or who work compressed hours and finish at lunchtime on a Friday. Friday is definitely a much quieter day. That’s not to say you can’t send emails on a Friday, but the likelihood of getting a response is much lower, and you shouldn’t expect a particularly speedy reply. A lot of people where I work use Fridays for things like reading manuscripts or tackling work that needs concentration, because of the lack of interruptions from meetings and emails – so in turn they’re likely to be paying less attention to their inbox.

    4. Dr. Doll*

      This is why I hated summer 4/10 work weeks at my institution (M-Th, F campus was closed). Thursdays turned into Fridays, and no one actually worked an entire 7am to 6pm day on M-W. We lost at least 35% productivity in summer, despite 13-hr days when you counted the commute.

      So sorry, no advice, just commiseration, and as others have said, just do your job at your own pace but maybe plan ahead a little for people not being as responsive on Fridays.

      1. Pam Adams*

        Yes, that was my problem with 4/10- students aren’t there at 7 am. The post-
        covid ability to have remote days has been much better.

    5. RagingADHD*

      You can be as productive as you want without ruffling feathers by using the “schedule send” options on email or chat.

      Fire it off today, they get it first thing Monday, everyone is happy. And if you’re getting a bunch of stuff on Monday that isn’t actually urgent, save it to do on Friday.

      If everyone else is in a cycle of using Friday as a catch-up day, then you can catch up on their requests too.

    6. spcepickle*

      I work for state government and I love my quiet Fridays. I am a manger and I telework on Fridays. Because I am at home I only get interrupted if something dramatic enough happens for my team to call me. Also as many others have said – we have a strong culture of flexible work schedules and many people don’t work on Fridays. This might just need to be a culture shift for you. I still send emails and call people if necessary, but in the long run you might find having a day of deep concentration is really useful.

    7. former supe*

      Fellow fed, this is true generally because plenty of people are taking three day weekends, working compressed schedules, etc. I’ve never been told or felt that *I* had to dial it back, feel free to crank out whatever you want with the understanding that you may not get replies until Mon or Tue.

      The point where it becomes a faux-pas, in my opinion, is if you try to start scheduling brass-tacks meetings on Friday without checking in with people. At every agency I’ve worked at, there are “Core Hours” (usually Tues-Thurs, roughly 10am-2pm) where most people are expected to be available and meetings can get scheduled. I’ve worked jobs where Friday DOES end up being a “lighter” admin day because I’ve been in back to back meetings every other day and had no time to do paperwork otherwise. You start taking my admin time because you want to blow full steam ahead on something that can wait until the next core hours block, I’m gonna start getting grumpy with you.

      1. A Significant Tree*

        Also a fed and I agree with the points about how it’s quieter on Fridays at least partly due to people having every other Friday as their scheduled day off. I’ve had serious meetings scheduled for Friday (even the afternoons!) and other Fridays when it’s been super quiet. Although most meeting invites come with a small apology for scheduling on a Friday, they aren’t delayed unless the key people are out of office and can’t support.

        I do use Fridays a lot for clearing out the backlog of emails and tasks, so it’s good from that perspective. But I’ve never felt I couldn’t do real work or send questions – the perception is it’s quieter but not that you are expected not to work like you would any other day.

    8. Strive to Excel*

      Not a federal employee, but office worker. Go ahead and send your emails on Friday, whenever you need them. If it’s during core business hours, do core business hour tasks.

      The only thing I would avoid would be starting projects on a Friday if they are non-urgent. Schedule Monday/Tuesday meetings to get them started, sure. But I generally find it unhelpful to get a few hours in on a new project and then walk away from it for two days. When you come back you end up spending almost as much time remembering what you were doing as making progress. Fridays are a good time for dealing with “little” questions, getting things ready for review, and planning out your next week.

    9. Katie*

      I would do your work as normal, including sending those emails but understand that you may not get a response on Friday. Don’t schedule meetings (or as much as you can) on Fridays either.

      During the summer my company has ‘quiet Fridays’ and honestly its nice not to have as many meetings on Friday…

    10. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      Living in the DC metro area I know a ton of feds, and the entire point for most agencies is getting stuff done on Fridays – everyone has that, whether it’s catching up on email or uninterrupted writing time or whatever. So feel free to ask questions or fire off an email, just don’t schedule recurring meetings or training sessions or whatever.

    11. govvie*

      I’m a current US fed employee, and Fridays in my office are only quieter in the sense that we have a culture of not scheduling major meetings on Fridays because pre-pandemic, many people were remote on Fridays. But everyone is engaged and working (unless they’re off, which happens more if there is an upcoming Monday holiday).

      That said, the US fed gov is huge and the culture can vary a lot from office to office. I’d go to some one you trust for clarification about what would and wouldn’t be appropriate in your office.

    12. jenny*

      I’m a Fed and I’ve never heard it put that way. But I think a lot of offices (both gov’t and private) work that way. I’d basically do what works best for you, but know that responses might not be as quick. I’ll also add that a lot of people have flexible schedules where they work 9 hour days and get every other Friday off. That probably plays into it too.

    13. Momma Bear*

      Some of it may also be AWS (alternative work schedule) days. If half the A team is out every other Friday, then it might make sense to pivot to less crucial items until the following week. I’d also tell repeat offenders “I’m here on Fridays so if you think something needs to be moving, please send it to me so we can be ahead of the curve come Monday.” Or if you know there’s always a report due see what steps you can get rolling Thursday so you have work to do on Friday.

    14. Policy Wonk*

      Fed here. At my agency Fridays are often very busy on the policy side, trying to get things done before the weekend. On the administrative and management side, things are slower as people who are on alternate work schedules often use Friday as the flex day, and those who are in are wrapping up projects. If something needs to be done on Friday, of course you can send messages. But if you are sending a general “it’s time to do your annual cybersecurity training” message you are better off holding it until sometime Monday so it doesn’t get buried in the inbox.

    15. Beth*

      If people are getting grumpy at you for sending emails, that’s their problem. They should just choose not to reply until they’re ready. That’s the beauty of asynchronous communication! (Similarly, you can choose to treat Monday early-morning emails with the same level of urgency that you would Thursday emails. You don’t have to feel an implied rush just because of when they decided to reach out.)

      On the other hand, if you’re trying to schedule Friday meetings to discuss substantive questions, in a culture that keeps Fridays for admin catch-up and winding down the week, then you’re going to irritate people. You’re also probably not going to get the level of engagement you want. You have to work with people’s expectations and norms for this kind of thing.

    16. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Former state employee here, and I went through the same thing. I’d verify that other people truly aren’t willing to do substantive work on Fridays – send the emails, ask the questions, see who seems to share your Friday approach. People have a tendency to say “the general consensus is” or “most of us feel” when it’s really just them and a few others, or they’re ignoring a substantial minority that feels differently. Right now people will cut you some slack because you’re new; use that to find out what the norms really are.

      Second thing: I’m not sure what your job is or how your deliverables work, but wrapping things up is a big part of brass tacks. I started doing follow-up calls and emails (mainly to people outside the department) on Friday morning , aiming to have files completed with a bow on them by lunch. Friday afternoon was deep focus time reviewing/laying groundwork for next week’s cases, so I could jump right in on Monday.

    17. Csethiro Ceredin*

      I don’t work in government but I do work under contract to government. Fridays feel quiet to me in that there isn’t as much coming at me from colleagues, and government folks are often OOO, so I do use it to catch up. But it often ends up being more productive than most days where a lot of what I did was reactive and it can just feel like whack-a-mole.

      I use Fridays to write correspondence that accumulated over the rest of the week, write my periodic reports, and so on.

      If there’s work that you do more independently or that accumulates due to other needs when everyone is more active, maybe you could use Fridays to do that and then would be more available for incidental work the rest of the week?

      Of course that will depend on your specific job.

    18. Fed Too*

      Your specific question is how much can I buck this- you’re in a new job and being told we don’t do x here. My advice is that you should usually listen to others when you’re new and they tell you the cultural norms (fed or not). You also aren’t going to change things so if you’re pushing for answers on things it’s going to escalate (are you still in your probationary period?)

      As a fed I can also tell you that our agency schedule M-Th is so packed that finding the time to do things like mandatory training, filling out performance reviews, writing policy docs are left to Friday when you get heads down time (we call them Focus Days here). You’ll probably learn to depend on these days as you’re there longer and your workload increases.

  8. BellaStella*

    Share your work joys this week with us!

    My joys were discovering how to use an online design tool well enough and fast enough to make nice layouts and getting asked to make two slides for a higher up person to discuss my work at a big meeting.

    And it is only 11 weeks til end of the year.

    1. English Rose*

      Getting a nomination from a coworker for our monthly best employee award! I didn’t win but SO nice to get a nomination.

    2. Watry*

      I was brave and had an important conversation with my boss! Also I was reasonably busy this week because closures from Hurricane Helene backed me up, which is nice as I usually don’t have much to do.

    3. ThatGirl*

      I had an article published in an industry magazine, and I got to send out a Mean Girls themed marketing email that was well-received! (And if any of my immediate coworkers are reading this, you will immediately recognize me haha)

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      My hospital system officially announced this morning that we are going to implement Epic. It’s going to be a huge project with so many moving parts, and the go-live date is mid-2027, but it’s the beginning of a journey that is going to be SUCH an improvement for both our team members and our patients and I am STOKED. (Right now we’re a Cerner house with a ton of third-party systems, almost none of which are actually designed to support a system of our size and complexity, and having modules that just Work Together, at a scale that actually will accommodate us, is a DREAM. This will replace at least 3.5 systems that I use daily.)

      1. They're cutting down trees today*

        My brother is on the EPIC IT team at a county hospital in a major metro. They just moved to a new hospital location and it’s been A long transition of building the system, then physically building the system, implementing the system and allowing it to go live. and all. they had a baby born 1 hour into opening the new doors. He really enjoys what he does to help healthcare practitioners do their jobs better.

      2. Katydid*

        Congrats! I was an applications/implementation trainer for both Epic and Cerner and you will love the switch. As you said, it will be a huge project but so worth it.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          We implemented just a couple modules (Cadence, Resolute professional) at my previous hospital right before I left, but that was almost twelve years ago now. So excited. :)

    5. German Shepherdess*

      It’s certainly been a joyful week for me – I got a promotion! I’m now a Lead Developer. It’s especially good because I’ve been here less than a year, and I left a company that I’d worked in a long time but had no future in – the development team was really top heavy and I was increasingly feeling like I was being pushed out. I found out a couple of weeks ago that they’re making a bunch of layoffs and I’m absolutely certain my name would have been on the list. Whereas my new company is in really good financial standing, growing consistently but sustainably, and my new manager is absolutely wonderful and really supportive.

    6. In the middle*

      Getting an assistant hired and trained so I’m now only doing the work of two people, not three!!! I was the squeaky wheel to get it done, but goodness, it’s better than the stress.

    7. anonymous anteater*

      I spoke up to relay concerns I’ve been hearing from entry level people in one particular team, where senior staff create an unproductive team environment that is completely out of touch with our espoused expectations of a respectful workplace. It’s also really important to the business, because all these people including entry level are here to have creative ideas, so it’s very counterproductive to quash people’s confidence all the time.
      It was not as scary as I thought, the response was a lukewarm ‘yeah, I’ve also been concerned with that team, we’re trying to make some changes’. I hope to keep pushing the subject, as we are talking a big talk about our values.

    9. Mimmy*

      Our manager retired last week. This is not the joyful part; the joyful part is that the supervisor that is taking over the day-to-day work (at least until we get a new manager) seems to be making little changes that will be really helpful. The first change? There are actually going to be notes taken during the meetings to document topics discussed and action items noted. Why this was never implemented before is beyond my comprehension (I always took my own notes).

    10. LuckyPurpleSocks*

      I requested an individual training from another department on a certain software that I’m having to use in a “trial by fire” situation until my office can fill the position for the person who should be an expert on it. The person I trained with was super nice and patient walking me through it, and pointed out some tips and tricks that will help make my work a little easier. It was very much appreciated!

    11. allathian*

      My 15 year old fixed his first (unpaid) internship, two weeks in a popular hardware store. He submitted an application by email and took a call from the intern manager on his lunch break. Then he went with my husband to the store and signed a contract. The school required a signature by one parent but the employer didn’t. All students in his grade are supposed to do this so big employers usually have a process in place for this.

      I’m so proud of him and he’s really looking forward to it.

    12. House On The Rock*

      Our painfully slow HR finally approving several promotions/reclassifications that allow me to have fewer direct reports while also giving management opportunities to some very deserving folks. Going from almost 20 direct reports to 6 feels joyous!

    14. bamcheeks*

      Not quite work, but I am currently organising a pro-choice presence outside our local Marie Stopes International clinic, to counter the “40 Days For Life” campaign which is currently being held. We just have a quiet presence on the other side of the road and hold up signs saying “Pro-choice” and “Abortion is healthcare”.

      Today I took over from a group of people who had been there one hour and got 88 supportive honks (!!!) and then whilst I was on my shift someone pulled up, jumped out of their car, and rather emotionally gave me a bunch of flowers and said “thank you SO MUCH for everything you are doing!” It was amazing! I do feel like it should have gone to the doctors, nurses and professionals working on reproductive rights all day every day, not just us running a campaign for a month once a year, but it was still so lovely and I’m quite overcome!

      (Also it made an excelling Instagram post and got 62 likes, admittedly not as many as last week’s “dogs for choice” post which got 134 likes. Never change, internet.)

    15. Industry Behemoth*

      I finally thought to request a larger monitor for my office desk. My computer setup is in the corner of my cubicle, and IT got me a curved monitor to fit the geography better.

      I never would’ve thought of that. And happily I didn’t have to rearrange my desk to accommodate the newcomer. :-)

    16. Banana Pyjamas*

      I began an application for what I initially thought was a stretch role, but by the time I finished my resume I realized I was well qualified. I also realized there were skills that I could add to my resume that I had previously overlooked.

      As part of that I confirmed my most recent title and learned they never changed it after restructuring, even though all the documentation to do so was signed. The mismatch in title and work make it clear I was being managed out, while the accomplishments illustrate I was excelling in spite of that.

      The bonus bright spot is that because they never changed it, I don’t have an entry-level role as my most recent title.

    17. Cece*

      I finally sent a draft proposal and constituent feedback to my grandboss after months of discussion and compiling said feedback, while also putting out fires around me. This proposal is only something I can do and only something she can approve, and I have had to put it off longer than I’d hope because of said fires. There is still work to be done, I am sure, but I needed this part off my plate before some planned vacation.

  9. Mouse*

    The office where I work is FREEZING! I brought in a small throw blanket to keep at my desk, which has been a big help. I was googling around for other things that might help and found an article (I think on Corporette) that made a comment about how it would be ridiculous to bring in a blanket! Will people think I’m being silly if they see me sitting at my cubicle with a small blanket? Is this a corporate no-no?

    2. English Rose*

      Maybe keep the blanket on your lap rather than round your shoulders. But layers are your friend here – t-shirt, shirt, sweater, gilet. You may end up Michelin Man, but so what!

      1. Who Plays Backgammon?*

        I had a coworker who got cold in her office & had a good-sized pretty shawl to wear over her shoulders & sometimes into the outer office & meetings. everyone knew why she wore it & no one thought a thing about it.

    3. Ripley*

      My office is also freezing, and I have a fuzzy throw blanket that I keep folded under my desk, and I put it over my lap and legs on the particularly bad days. You can’t even really tell it’s there if I’m working at my computer. I also have an electric heating pad that I put between my back and the chair sometimes, and that helps too.

      My feeling is if they’re not going to heat the office to a comfortable temperature, I’m going to do what I have to do.

    4. ArlynPage*

      I’ve even brought in a small space heater to keep me warm, in addition to a light down jacket (like something colorful you get from Uniqlo), a little fleece blanket, scarf, and fingerless gloves. I grew up and currently live in cold climates, and generally run cold. It’s terrible!

      Oh, also, I wear thin underlayers (also from Uniqlo) under all of my clothes as soon as the temps dip below 40F.

      1. Anon for This*

        My office doesn’t allow space heaters (fire hazard). My colleague’s go-to is to sit on a heating pad, or prop it at her back – she says it works to resolve the issue. Me, I have a throw blanket in a neutral office gray – people never seem to notice it.

    5. Flor*

      My guess is this is one of the things that depends on workplace culture and dress code. If it’s a more laid back environment, like smart casual or jeans-and-t-shirt tech, then I don’t think anyone will bat an eye at a blanket; I used to have a coworker who kept a throw blanket over the back of her chair and would wrap it around herself like an enormous shawl (while two desks down I was sweating in a t-shirt, proof you can never find a comfortable temperature for everyone!).

      If it’s something more conservative like law or finance, then I don’t think a blanket will fly, but if you’re that cold indoors then something like long underwear might help?

    6. EA*

      I think it’s fine as long as it’s in “professional” colors, like not a blanket with neon cartoons on it for example. I lived in an apartment with a roommate who hated turning on the heat and those microwaveable corn bags saved me – so cozy!

    7. Roy G. Biv*

      A former coworker used an electric heating pad that fit the seat of her office chair, that was meant to be sat upon, and how it really helped her feel warmer at the core. Of course, her hands were still like ice.

      1. UpstateDownstate*

        I was going to also suggest this – it’s a life saver and it doesn’t cause me to zone out like the white noise of a space heater (which I LOVE but not at work).

        1. Roy G. Biv*

          My company had banned space heaters because of various reasons, including the noise and too many of them running at once tripped breakers. (I never found out how many was too many. 2? 11?)

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I have one that goes around my shoulders and it is great. It’s actually a massage pad but has a heating element that can be turned on or off. Of course, I’m not sure how professional it looks to have it wrapped around one’s shoulders, but even just using it in the morning for a little while helps me get warm enough that I won’t need it for the rest of the day.

        I do think, though, that blankets are fine if your office isn’t super dressy. If it is a nice throw, it will just look like a big scarf. And if your office is super dressy and you think the blanket will look out of place, just invest in a scarf/shawl or two to take the place of your blanket. I’m always surprised how much warmer I can be if I just have my neck covered vs. uncovered.

      3. Admin of Sys*

        They make heated wrist rests for mice (and mouse caves, though I personally hate the caves.) The wrist wrests keep my hands toasty warm, they’re so nice.

    8. Tio*

      Blankets can be fine in most settings, and I have fingerless gloves I sometimes wear. But might be better to ask around your office and see if anyone thinks it’s weird rather than here; some places might get really weird about it, but most won’t care.

    9. Miss Patty*

      I have seen coworkers in the past who were criticized for wearing a blanket over their shoulders at their desk, and I can agree that this would look a bit unprofessional. HOWEVER, I also run cold, and I don’t think there is any problem with having a throw blanket draped over your lap (even better, a heated blanket!). For my shoulders, I keep a very warm, soft shawl in my office, which is basically a more socially acceptable way to wear a blanket over your shoulders.

      I don’t recommend space heaters unless you check with the appropriate people to make sure you are not overpowering any electrical outlets – in my office we have triggered blackouts before because too many people had space heaters running.

    10. ThatGirl*

      My office varies wildly between freezing and stifling, but when it’s cold I have seen everything from shawls to full-blown blankets and small space heaters. So I wouldn’t worry too much about it as long as it’s not, I dunno, a blanket with a naked anime woman on it or something.

    11. anotherfan*

      Heavens, we have electric blankets on our knees because it’s so cold, especially in the summer! It’s not unusual for our boss to wear a coat AND HAT during teams calls from her office; we all have sweaters on the backs of our chairs and scarves in our desk drawers. Yes, we’re kind of jokey about it, as are teammates in other offices, but you can’t work when you’re cold. Do what you need to stay warm!

    12. Pay no attention...*

      I probably wouldn’t go with a blanket and my office is business casual. That’s a little too casual. I noticed that the office is colder in the summer here because the air conditioner is on constantly, and that’s also when I wear summer-appropriate clothes. So I keep layers of light, medium, and warm sweaters/jackets in the office, and if my feet are cold, the whole rest of me is cold, so I keep a pair of warm close-toed shoes, like loafers, to change out of my sandals if necessary.

    13. Dust Bunny*

      I have a rather thick jacket (Old Navy faux-tweed lined blazer) that I just leave at work all the time. It looks OK, is warm enough, and I’m not emotionally invested in it in the event something happens to it. A blanket would be a bit restrictive for what I do, and . . . we’re less formal than corporate but I suspect that, yes, it might look pretty eccentric.

      My first office jacket many years ago was actually a reproduction Union Army sack coat that I bought off of my brother. It was plain navy blue (except for the brass buttons) so it didn’t look that odd. It finally looked too genuinely antique for office wear, though, and had to be retired to the scrap pile.

    14. Ama*

      My last in office job, parts of the office were so cold that senior management gave us blankets one year as our end of year gift.

    15. Vienna*

      I think it really depends on your office culture! I’m an executive assistant at a very laid back accounting firm. Most of the office runs really hot, so I am always FREEZING since the temperature is kept low to help. Every member of the administrative team has a blanket (or two!) at their desk/in their office. I was the first to bring one in because I figured if it’s normal for men to be wearing shorts and flip flops in the summer, nobody would bat an eye at a blanket. Within a week there were 4 other blanketed desks! If you feel like you’re in a more formal environment, I would suggest getting a really thick knitted cardigan. I’ve got a couple that almost feel like I’m wearing a snuggie, but would be much more appropriate for an office that places greater emphasis on appearing professional.

    16. Paint N Drip*

      This would have been full-on gossip creating territory at a former job that really valued optics and old-school professionalism. This would have been totally normal at a different job.

      My current go-to is a big warm scarf (like a woven fabric that appears like a style choice, rather than like a fleece scarf or something that reads ‘arctic performance’) which tends to go rather unnoticed

    17. Strive to Excel*

      There are electric gloves on the market! My brother used them extensively for skiing, but they can be work on the day to day as well. Great for chilly fingers, and somewhat less obtrusive than a blanket if you don’t want to have something that bulky.

      1. Aerin*

        I have fingerless gloves and they’re really useful,especially because my hands can get sweaty very quickly in regular gloves. I love them, and they can help a lot.

    18. Too Long Til Retirement*

      I work in a business casual office, and I run cold nearly 24/7. There are maaaaaybe 3 weeks the entire year where I am comfortable in my office. The AC is set too cold in the summer, and the heat is not set warm enough in the winter.

      I have had a small space heater that has gotten daily use 6 months a year for now 13 years. Best $25 I have ever spent! I also have work-branded fleece jackets, and I keep a poncho that can work as a blanket on hand. I don’t think that a light blanket in neutral color will be a problem at all, and I also recommend a small space heater.

    19. Everything Bagel*

      I think a throw blanket across your lap is fine, plus you could bring in a cozy jacket to keep your desk. I worked in corporate offices where half the department had throw blankets and coats on. It really shouldn’t look odd, I mean you’re just cold, right? I used to keep a navy blue quilted jacket at my desk, which I picked up for cheap at Target just for this purpose. It’s great to have handy in case you have to go to a cold conference room for a meeting, too. I would not bring a throw a blanket to a meeting though!

      1. Everything Bagel*

        Meant to add it was a business casual environment. I usually wore dress slacks and sweaters or dresses, and I don’t think the waist-length jacket stood out from my outfit or anything anyone else was wearing. I think any jacket/blazer/sport coat/chunky sweater that’s neutral, clean, and fits properly should be fine.

    20. RetailIsDetail*

      I have some health issues that mean I’m usually cold, so here’s what’s helped me at work:
      – a thin wool scarf around my neck (can become a wrap around the shoulders in a pinch!)
      – fingerless gloves (a neutral/skin tone color might not stand out as much in a corporate environment?)
      – disposable hand-warmers like Hot Hands that last for 8-10 hours (can be discretely tucked into the fingerless gloves)
      – disposable foot-warmers (these attach to your the bottom of your socks — instant comfort!)
      Good luck surviving the Siberian office! :)

      1. epicdemiologist*

        Here’s a tip about chemical hand warmers (which I used extensively at our outdoor COVID testing site): The chemical reaction depends on exposure to air (oxygen), so if you seal them in a Ziplock bag with as much air as possible squeezed out–they STOP HEATING and you can use them again the next day! (Just take them out of the bag and shake them up!)

        Also: if you have the small size, you can tuck them into your socks on the top of your foot (not under your foot).

    21. Nesprin*

      There are blankets and then there are pashminas, ruanas, oversized scarves and other “not a blanket” blankets. I’d suggest getting a blanket that codes “article of clothing” over “could go on a bed”

    22. A Simple Narwhal*

      Get a heating pad! If you clip on the back of your chair (between your back and the chair) it will keep you super warm! Offices usually don’t mind heating pads because they all have auto-off switches and they’re really subtle so you won’t get any funny looks.

    23. Momma Bear*

      I have an extra fleece jacket I keep at my desk and can put on my lap if I need to. It’s less bulky than a blanket and I can wear it if I need to. I also have a small space heater that really just heats the area under my desk.

    24. Elizabeth West*

      I have a nice pashmina I keep in my backpack to wrap around my shoulders. It’s made of wool and silk so it keeps me pretty warm and looks a little better than a blanket. If you have something like that, it might make a good alternative.

    25. Box of Kittens*

      I think this depends on your company culture. I work in an industry that is traditionally fairly conservative, but I see managers and VP-level folks with blankets all the time (more commonly when they’re on Zoom in their own office but I’ve also been in in-person meetings where VP-level people brought blankets to meet with other VP-level people). I feel like it’s probably fine at your desk as long as you’re not cocooned in it and can get out of it/looking professional quickly.

    26. Wendy*

      Oh I had an office like this that was in the fashion space. We all had giant blanket scarves to use as blankets, but they look slightly chicer ha!

    27. Hush42*

      I think this is office dependent. But my office actually started issuing blankets as part of the welcome package to all in-office employees. They’re actually really nice, double layer, blankets with our logo embroidered on one corner. Some people just bring theirs home, but a lot of people (especially the women) keep them at their desks and have them on their laps on particularly cold days. It started as a joke from one of our old employees who was always cold and had a blanket. She joked that they should provide company blankets. So the marketing dept ran with it and people loved them so much that they started just issuing one to each new in-office employee.

    28. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Anyone who thinks it’s unprofessional to have a plain lap blanket in a cold office has too much time on their hands; lots of people do it. Keep a cardigan on hand, too. Just make sure that you wash them weekly and keep them somewhere that they won’t get swiped. As far as other options – what are your coworkers doing to stay warm? How many spare outlets do you have? Some places allow a space heater or an electric blanket, some don’t. You might want to get a mug warmer and keep a hot drink nearby just to warm your hands.

    30. ThatOtherClare*

      My advice is, if you can afford it, invest in the cheapest merino wool thermals you can afford. You’ll want to acquire a long sleeved top layer, a pair of long john pants, and a pair of wool/nylon blend socks – and you want them close fitting, not roomy. They don’t have to be top quality or expensive, mine were $10 from a bargain bin. They just need to be real wool. You will be amazed at the difference they make to your comfort.

      Our heating broke the other day. It was 60 in the office, and all the men were freezing and miserable and complaining about how cold it was. I was only wearing a lightweight cotton cardigan and I didn’t even realise the heating was off until one of them said how sorry he felt for me and how I must be freezing!

      It’s one of my secrets to always being professionally dressed, because with a wool thermal layer underneath I can wear whatever I like on top – yet I always magically maintain a comfortable temperature, no matter what the heating is set to in any office in the building. Sheep have it sorted. I would advise you not to bother with synthetic thermals. They start to stink after a while, they’re not as adaptive, and they don’t keep you as warm as wool – despite what any of the marketing about ‘advanced technologies’ will try and tell you. (Except the socks, socks do need to be about 15% nylon to fit your foot shape properly).

      My other secret is to embrace wide pants and/or skirts. They work a little bit like a down jacket by trapping a layer of warm air between you and the outside world, and help you keep it with you as you move about. You’ve put hard work into making those kelvins, no need to give them away again!

      Lastly, don’t be afraid to use a hot water bottle. In a plain dark cover they’re essentially invisible. People will simply assume you ‘need’ it and do their utmost to ignore it, because they just don’t want to think too hard about what the situation might be (even if you’re using it every day of the month or you’re 65). As in, even women will ignore it so hard that they’ll often genuinely forget that they’ve seen you with it. Magic ~☆

    31. Mid*

      I’ve had offices so cold I had to wear gloves and a heating pad and a blanket and I’m far from a person who is easily cold. I made sure it was a nice looking blanket (light blue which fit the company color scheme) not like a cartoon blanket (which honestly could be fine in some offices too!) and no one ever said anything or looked askance. I wore it over my lap, not like a coat, but also, I was cold to the point of physical pain and everyone should be allowed to be comfortable in their workplace.

    32. londonedit*

      I’m not sure I’d use an actual blanket in the office, but I’ve definitely brought a big warm shawl/scarf and used that when it’s been particularly chilly. It looks a bit more chic and deliberate than just sitting there with a massive blanket wrapped around you. I also have some cashmere wrist warmers which are lovely, and they really help with keeping my hands warm (while still leaving my fingers free to type).

  10. A Poster Has No Name*

    Does anyone have experience in a business unit that was sold from one big corp to another? Any tips/advice? We’re not being bought as a standalone, we’re integrated pretty thoroughly with our current company (who did buy the business as a startup in the 90s) so we’re going to be untangling all of that in addition having to integrate with the new (shittier) company.

    I’ve been with current company 22 years and I’m on the struggle bus. It was just announced, not closed yet (pending regulatory approval), so we know pretty much nothing yet about how it will all go down.

    1. ArtK*

      I’ve been through several Murders and Executions, er Mergers and Acquisitions. They’ve run the gamut from no problem to total disaster. A lot will depend on whether the new company has ever done this before and what lessons they learned if they did. It also depends on where the touch-points were with the old company and what will replace them with the new. Corporate culture can be a big, big issue. I worked for a small company that was bought and merged into a very large and very old company; they kept reminding us that they were “109 years old.” They suffered from hardening of the attitudes and an incredible amount of worthless paperwork. Corporate politics also came into play.

      Just in case, start polishing your resume. You may not need it, but it’s better to be prepared.

      1. I Have RBF*

        Yeah, most of the times when I worked for a company that suffered from Murders and Assassinations it went… poorly… for the smaller company and its employees. If a company I am working for is sold off and acquired, I update my resume and start looking.

        This is an RGE*. It may not go to shit immediately, but with the tight integration with the old parent and the different cultures involved, it has pretty low odds of going smoothly and painlessly.

    2. Turingtested*

      When my company went through this there were a few workers who just couldn’t accept the changes. (In my opinion, positive changes pushing us towards standardization and automating repetitive tasks.)

      Most of that group moved on, but a few stayed and fought everything until they were fired.

      If you don’t like where things are going, please make sure you’re in the former group and not the latter.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      I agree that it’s a good idea to start polishing your resume and start a casual job hunt. I know not all acquisitions go horribly, but enough of them do that it can’t hurt to get a headstart on prepping your life raft. Hopefully everything will go great and you don’t have to jump ship, but it’s better to have everything ready and not need it than find yourself scrambling (or having to job hunt while you’re completely miserable at work, which is its own level of hell).

      Good luck!

    4. Trout 'Waver*

      It’s an excellent time to reevaluate whether the job meets your requirements. If it doesn’t anymore, start looking.

      Also, if the good middle managers start leaving, you need to go too.

    5. Momma Bear*

      Keep your eyes open, trust no promises, and be ready to leave if things get sketchy. One job they said things would stay the same and 6 months in they scrambled our benefits and reduced our PTO. I lasted maybe a year after acquisition.

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Ah, “separation” projects. I think the main thing to prepare for is that separation activity will likely become top priority over the next months or so, any current projects and initiatives will be put on the back burner in favour of that – in fact new projects etc might be paused altogether, while the new owners assess what they think the priorities should be. There will almost certainly be a “fact finding”, analysis phase where all the current processes and integrations have to be flushed out – e.g. does your unit do any month-end reporting to the current parent company, if so, the parent company probably “rolls up” your reporting with the rest which they will now need to undo and might need input from your business unit in doing so. It will generate a lot of IT-type projects, if you aren’t in IT this will obviously affect you less but there will probably still be some inputs needed from you. A lot of the change will be cultural, the new company will likely want your business unit to integrate culturally and that is quite hard. And if there’s any differences in conditions (amount of PTO, salary bands, etc) between the two companies, expect this to be “rationalised” (i.e. made consistent) over time.

    7. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Make sure you’ve got non-work contact info for anyone you want to keep in your professional network, in case anyone leaves suddenly. Practice keeping an open mind; ask yourself if [fillindablank] is bad or is it just new? It’s human to equate one with the other.

      It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. – Charles Darwin

      ….but also, yeah, make sure you have your resume updated, check what the market rate is for your position, and don’t ignore red flags. A different system is one thing, disrespect is another.

  11. Coldhands*

    Any tips on how to stay calm and measured during stressful meetings when your response to stress is to shake and get out of breath? I’ve always been this way, and it’s really hindered my ability to sound professional if fight or flight starts kicking in. I think I’ve mostly gotten to an okay point, especially on Zoom, but I’d appreciate any advice! I work with folks who have extremely strong personalities and they frequently clash, hence the stress response.

    1. They're cutting down trees today*

      This is what I learned in therapy: visualize your body and start from your toes and work your way up and wiggle them and feel them and focus on them and then move to the next body part and then the next body part until you get to the top of your head. While it may sound challenging to simultaneously engage in the meeting as well as your body, You can learn to do both over time. It’s a really great way to place an invisible boundary between what’s happening at the meeting. that’s not so great while focusing on your personal biomechanics. All

      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        I actually have found wiggling my toes (sometimes frantically) to be enough.

        I also like to take a big breath before I speak.

    4. Joielle*

      Personally, I use beta blockers. They’re commonly used for performance anxiety but work well in this situation too. You have to take them about a half hour in advance, but if you know you’re going to have a stressful day, big meeting, presentation, etc they can be a lifesaver!

    5. RagingADHD*

      Adrenaline, once released, needs to be burned off. If you are on Zoom, can you turn your camera off and do something fairly strenuous, like push-ups or jumping jacks?

      Another (less obtrusive) technique for managing nerves that has helped me in the past is to firmly massage my ears while taking a deep breath, especially the earlobes and the nerve cluster in the soft spot just behind the ear lobes – in that little divot between the jawbone and the base of the skull.

      1. Double A*

        Yeah, my first thought is some kind of movement. If you know going into it it’s going to be stressful, can you move in advance? Do you have as standing desk so you could do some light movement during the meeting? Thinking putty is also quite helpful for this.

    7. Paint N Drip*

      Adrenaline always needs a place to go – I tend to bop my legs around, play piano fingers on my lap, or have a silent fidget toy, just something to get the tension out while appearing normal from the waist up :)

    8. spcepickle*

      Clench some of your big muscles, in meetings I often do legs, as tight as you can, hold for a breath, release with an out breath. It can help release the flight or fight response. Also keep a little bag of super sour candy with you. If things get really bad pop in a sour candy. There is science that your brain becomes so focused on the strong input it distracts from the anxiety.

      Lastly if it is two other people going at it and they are not coming for you – can you visualize yourself somewhere else. Give your brain a moment to remember that they cannot hurt you and that while this is unpleasant it is not dangerous.

    9. NaoNao*

      I set a meeting on my calendar and practice multiple times, going over what and how I’m going to say things, with the “record” option and then replay and edit/refine as needed. It really does help with high-stress meetings.

    10. Rage*

      Polyvagal theory is going to be very helpful here – and you don’t really need a therapist to help you with this.

      The vagus nerve is responsible for regulating our fight/flight/freeze response, and calming IT down will calm YOU down, but the key is to get it to where it’s regulated and maintained to a point where your F/F/F response is OFF. The gist is that when we are frightened (as one might be when in a meeting full of shouting colleagues and charged emotions), our body connection will fall back on the neural connections designed to keep us safe. They are defensive – and often engage before we are even aware of it. Spend too much time this way and those connections are always “on” – so you are always stressed, anxious, etc. Those defensive neural connections are disabled when we are in an environment where we feel safe – this is where you want to be, with those defense mechanisms disabled.

      A meeting with a bunch of charged personalities is stressful because your brain interprets it as a threat to your physical safety. But it’s not. There isn’t anything to really be afraid of; there are no lions or tigers at the door, no xenomorphs in the ceiling. (I hope.)

      But this is the key: we can “trick” our brains into turning off those defensive neural connections even when we are in stressful situations. So you do things to activate the “ventral vagal” circuit, which supports social engagement behaviors and connections with others. (The other 2 circuits, the sympathetic and dorsal vagal, regulate our fight/flight and freeze behaviors, respectively.) Polyvagal theory goes into a LOT more depth, and it’s a big ol’ rabbit hole if you are bored someday, but this is a good enough summary to give you an understanding of why this works.

      Things you can do to activate your ventral vagal:

      -Breath work. “Box Breathing” is very useful, but really anything you can do to regulate/slow your breathing. You can easily do this in meetings without interrupting anything.

      -Watch your exhale. The slower you exhale, the slower your heart rate.

      -Posture. Make sure you aren’t hunching forward. When we hunch our shoulders forward, it decreases our lung capacity, which makes us take shorter breaths. Shorter breaths make our breath rate go up, which increases our heart rate, which increases our stress. You get the idea. Sit up straight, pull your shoulders back – this will help keep your breathing regulated as well.

      -Voice tone and facial expressions. Keep your vocal tone low, your speech measured, and relax your facial features. Avoid raising your voice or making it high-pitched – these things will activate your F/F/F response.

      -Cold water (as someone mentioned below) – after a stressful meeting, splash some cold water on your face (or even if you can excuse yourself to go to the bathroom in the middle of a meeting and do it there). You can also gargle with cold water for about 30 seconds; spit it out and then smile. At home – take a cool shower and smile and sing while in the shower. Singing actually requires us to slow our breathing down, so if you are having trouble managing it while sitting quietly, try singing exercises to help learn to regulate your breathing. Playing wind instruments work too – but you can’t (or shouldn’t) do that in the shower.

      Good luck – it takes some work to get to where you can deliberately regulate your sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system, but it’s so worth it in the long run.

      Sincerely,
      A counselor-in-training who is currently nerding out on polyvagal theory

    11. Aerin*

      In addition to what others have said, weighted stuff is good! I’ve got a weighted stuffy that you can actually put in the microwave, and having it on my lap can help center me. Small weighted blankets can also be very soothing.

    12. ThatOtherClare*

      Sometimes if I’m stuck in the room with loud personalities I’ll stand up, mumble ‘Scuse me, back in 5 minutes’ and just leave.

      Also there’s a guy in our building with a firey boss, and I’m sceptical that his bladder timer is really going off at 3pm every single day like clockwork.

      Sometimes, there’s just so much shit being flung around that you simply have to go and remove some from your general vicinity ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  12. call me wheels*

    Posted last week about how I got offered a job but was waiting to hear from another I wanted — long story short I have accepted the better (higher paid + aligned with my career goals + permanent) job! Just waiting on final checks before I get my contract but yeah, feeling really good about it. 9 weeks of job hunting, around 80 applications and something like 11 interviews and here we are! This is my first job since graduating university and yeah from what I see so far it will hopefully be a good fit in lots of ways, so here’s hoping it goes well :)

    Also, this week I began my first freelance video game work, kinda! I’ve been reading the materials to prepare me for the actual writing, and offering sensitivity reader type feedback too. This is for the next installment of my favourite game and it really is as close to a dream job as I can imagine. Good pay and exciting fun work, I really feel lucky to have got this far.

    Between that and the other job (part time) I’ll finally be able to start contributing to household expenses and rent without chipping away at my savings, get some hobby related stuff I’ve been holding off on and new clothes I seriously need, and hopefully start saving for the next big milestones. I know I need to look at sorting like bank accounts and national insurance and pension and taxes as a freelancer and all that but I’m trying to celebrate a bit too before getting too bogged down in it all :) thank you to everyone who wished me luck and gave advice and good luck to everyone else hunting too !

  13. Anon4This*

    I’ve posted a few times over the past month about some shenanigans going on at my job. Brief recap: Sudden surprise layoffs of two people who were well-liked but had brief conflicts with management. Staff is outraged. Staff convened, sent a list of questions and a proposal for a new layoff policy that would prevent rogue directors from laying off people they didn’t like and calling it a restructure.

    Well, in about an hour we have a meeting with leadership to talk about it all. Reading over the agenda, it seems the stance they’re taking is “oh, it’s HR best practices to do layoffs this way, you guys just don’t know how things go in the working world”. I’ve volunteered to do part of the speaking on behalf of the group. Any cheering, advice, or comfort would be really appreciated right about now.

    1. BellaStella*

      Refer to your the layoff policy of it exists and to your questions to get answers, be sure to have a note taker and ensure what is committed to is then shared widely. Then follow up too and set a three month meeting mark to assess progress. Also i am sorry they are condescending to you all.

    2. pally*

      I would posit that leadership’s stance is not taking into account how it affects remaining employees, now and in the future. Going forward, do they recognize how this layoff “best practice” has soured employees as to how they are valued (err… not valued) by management?

      That will have negative consequences-to things like turnover, willingness to make extra effort on things, morale, the product/service itself… you get the idea.

      Insulting employees by saying they don’t know how things work in the working world is not the way to make employees feel good about their management. Being willing to listen to and allay fears, and being open about how they do things, is a better way to achieve this.

      1. Momma Bear*

        Been there. Our reply was exactly that – morale tanks when you do backhanded things. Transparency is valued. Management chose not to listen, and the result was a number of key/senior people leaving in rapid succession with minimal notice. Rarely does treating people poorly exist in a vacuum.

    3. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      Is there an actual set of HR industry layoff best practices that exists somewhere (in the real world, not your company)? You could share those.

  14. Disability Confident Scheme*

    UK reader here. I applied for a job under the Disability Confident Scheme. It guarantees me an interview if I demonstrate in my application that I meet all the criteria.
    I have severe anxiety, and could easily have a panic attack. If I get an interview, what reasonable accommodations to ask ? If I tell the recruiters I’ll be shaking, possibly crying and hyperventilating ? If I ask to have extra time to reply and to not judge me on panic attacks, does it seem a reasonable accommodation ?
    I’d also be curious to know what reasonable accommodations other people in my situation have requested prior to interviews ?

    1. English Rose*

      I’ve not been in your precise situation but would it help to make sure the interviewers tell you all the fine details of the interview, who you will meet, where it will be etc?
      A lot of employers now will offer sight of the interview questions in advance, which will help some. My organisation (which is a member of the scheme) does this for autistic candidates.
      If you google “Disability Confident Reasonable Adjustments interviews” it brings up quite a few examples from various organisations.
      Maybe even ask the company what adjustments they offer.
      The very best of luck to you, let us know how it goes.

    2. FashionablyEvil*

      Are there things that you know would make you more comfortable and reduce the risk?

      Also, could you reasonably do the interview if you had a panic attack? I would feel very uncomfortable trying to interview someone who was clearly in that much distress and would probably suggest postponing.

    3. AnonyOne*

      What triggers your anxiety in an interview situation? Could you, eg, ask whether you could receive the questions in advance? If they were not open to sending them to you, could you arrive an hour early and be left in a room with the questions so you could review them in advance? That would give you a chance to think about them outside the pressure of the interview and maybe make some bullet point notes for yourself of key points do you could refer to them when answering in the interview. An interview for most types of jobs doesn’t need to be a test of how you respond under pressure or how well you can remember examples of your skills on the spot.
      Obviously I don’t know what triggers your anxiety so no idea whether this would help.

    4. call me wheels*

      Maybe ask ahead of time if they could schedule a little extra time so you could step out and collect yourself if you start having one? I think I have seen people mention asking for questions ahead of time so you can mentally prepare yourself but I don’t know if those tend to actually get done. I can’t really think of anything else, I wasn’t interviewing in the time I had regular panic attacks. But yeah asking for extra time to answer sounds very reasonable.

      I would say, I don’t think I’ve ever got an interview through the disability confident scheme even in cases where I couldn’t see why I wouldn’t meet criteria. And my experience with disability confident workplaces is more like they might have a space on the application form to ask about accomodations but I haven’t noticed any particular difference in how well versed with disability the people working there in general are. My experience is like they kind of seem aware maybe someone they interview might use a wheelchair but just be cautious in assuming they’ll definitely be good with a less easily understood condition like anxiety. Sorry I don’t mean to be negative just yeah hope it can help you prepare! Good luck!

    5. Neurodiverse*

      would it be helpful to get the questions in advance? if you had a chance to prepare answers,.do you think it might decrease the chance of anxiety problems?

      I have auditory processing issues and if I worry about not hearing properly in an interview or work situation, I definitely have problems. I’ve found that a better approach for me is to say at the beginning “I have auditory processing issues and often need a little time to process the question and formulate my answer. if I ask you to repeat yourself, it’s not anything you’re doing wrong, it’s my brain and ears don’t always cooperate.” so is there something similar you could do to acknowledge your issue in some way, ask for what you need, while also coming across as self aware and able toamage and accommodate yourself.

      also, does this scheme help you prepare at all for the interview? doing some mock interviews might help you get some experience and confidence.

      good luck!

    6. SAW*

      Disclaimer that I don’t have personal experience with this level of anxiety, but just thinking about what I might want when my anxiety has been triggered. Could one thing be that you ask for time to be built in for you to ask for a break during the interview? For example, if you can feel a panic attack starting, you ask for a break so you can have a few minutes of privacy to use your coping mechanisms to bring your anxiety back down to a manageable level.

      Another thought is to ask for the interview questions upfront. I’m thinking that could help you feel prepared and not be caught off-guard by a tough question that triggers anxiety.

    7. Michelle Smith*

      I would request the questions in advance and the name of the interviewer(s). Overpreparation helps me with my anxiety, personally.

    8. MsSolo (UK)*

      Some of the standard stuff where I work would be requesting the interview is in person or remote, extra time during the interview including longer gaps between questions, questions in advance, specific things about the room (lighting, temperature, not having your back to a door etc). Potentially you might be able to visit the site in advance and see where the interview would take place, but that would really depend on the nature of the employer.

      A lot of it is going to depend on what might trigger a panic attack for you (beyond general interview stress) and the nature of the role you’re applying for. They’d expect you to say that you’re asking for the adjustment due to severe anxiety, but it would be unusual to ask for them to ignore panic attacks specifically: part of the goal with the adjustments is to reduce the risk of a panic attack occurring. Think about it in terms of the adjustments you’d need to do the job, as well as the interview, so you can present your ‘doing the job’ self.

      1. MsSolo (UK)*

        Oh, one if they won’t give you the questions in advance – ask for them to be written out as well as asked, so you’ve got the question in front of you if your brain starts wandering.

    9. Cordelia*

      I think you’ll need to leave the room and find somewhere private to go if you have a panic attack, in the same way as you would be expected to do if you were doing the actual job – you can’t expect interviewers or coworkers to sit and wait for you to stop crying and hyperventilating, that’s going to make them very uncomfortable. You need to show that these things might happen but that you are able to recover yourself without too much upheaval and continue with the task at hand, otherwise there are going to be concerns about how you will function in the work environment. So it would probably be best to let them know that you might have a panic attack and need to step out briefly, and ask in advance where you should go if this happens.
      Is there anything they could do to reduce your anxiety and therefore the likelihood of you having a panic attack? e.g. if waiting will make you anxious, can you ask to be interviewed first? Can you ask to be able to wait outside in the fresh air rather than in a waiting room or lobby? Can you take fidget toys or something you find calming to hold? Can you ask if they can schedule more time for the interview and factor in a midway break to give you time to calm yourself down?

    10. Disability Confident Scheme*

      Having the questions in advance seem helpful, I’ll have to check.
      Fidgeting toys can be helpful too. Thanks for the suggestions.

      1. Good luck*

        Public speaking gives me panic attacks. Someone in my office recommended short term beta blockers (essentially, they lower your blood pressure I think). I took them 20 minutes beforehand and the panic attacks stopped.

          1. Indolent Libertine*

            Oh, I was about to make that same recommendation and that’s a real bummer. I’m a professional musician and low-dose propranolol has been a lifesaver for me and legions of my colleagues in so many high-pressure work situations. I’m so sorry that isn’t an option for you. Dangit!

    11. RagingADHD*

      The Job Accommodations Network at askjan dot org is US based, but it has some good lists of the type of accommodations that can be helpful for people with various disabilities.

      There is a section called A to Z Lists, where you can look up disabilities or symptoms / limitations, and a separate section called the Situation and Solutions Finder, which has real-world examples of employee requests and the solutions that were effective (or needed more trial and error).

      1. Mimmy*

        I think the Situation and Solutions Finder is new! I haven’t played with it yet, but I think you can filter by disability, limitation, and/or occupation.

    12. InterviewingDisabled*

      I’m in the US not the UK and am not familiar with that law or how accessibility requirements differ in the UK and US so I hesitate to respond, but I am also multiply disabled and have been on both sides of the interview table a lot so some of my experience may still be helpful. If not, please disregard it and know it was well intentioned.

      First of all, the accommodations process here is a negotiation so you can’t expect to get everything you ask for as you ask for it.

      Secondly, I would disclose as little as you possibly can without completely tanking your ability to interview. I’m sorry to say that, despite legal requirements otherwise, disabilities are often covertly considered in evaluations. It may take some time and energy to educate an employer about some of the accommodations being requested and to consider whether/how they could legitimately be incorporated into the workplace without undue hardship. That time doesn’t exist in the interview environment.

      One criteria often applied is whether the candidate can handle the company’s working environment. There will be rational discussion about whether someone can handle the work, the workload, etc. Many jobs are extremely stressful all the time; if you are perceived as unable to deal with stress you likely will be excluded. People will find some other reason to do it.

      In many environments, interviewing is a tiny part of their job unless you’re in HR or are the hiring manager. People who are already overworked are being asked to interview candidates bit not given any free time to prepare for it. I’ve been interviewed by people who clearly hadn’t read my resume (some who apologized and asked to take 2 min at the start to scan it) and I’ve sometimes been given resumes or information 15 minutes before an interview.

      I may have a vague idea of what I intend to ask, but there are no questions in advance to provide, and at places where they may have had a few standard questions they were a starter set or for use if the conversation faltered without them.

      On the interviewing side, I have periodically been faced with something I couldn’t do without assistance or accommodations. It never goes well. In some cases I have been told in advance and had to ask for an accommodation. In those cases, either they were unable to comply or my interview got mysteriously cut short. I have yet to get a single job where I either disclosed or someone figured out I have a disability (beyond my mobility disability for which I use a walker).

      However, once hired, I have been successful in nearly every job I’ve ever had (including short term contracts and at companies too small to be subject to disability laws) and I’ve often been able to get what I need without formal accommodations by asking my boss.

      So, again, things may be very different in the UK and clearly by using the program you did you’ve disclosed you have some sort of disability so that ship has sailed. But I would still think about risk vs reward and ask for as little in the way of interview accommodations as you think you can ask for and still have a reasonably successful interview experience.

      If that means extra time, ask for extra time. If that means questions in advance, ask for them. But also consider whether the accommodations you ask for would be reasonable for the job you’re interviewing for and part of your goals for the interview should include assessing the company environment and specific role against what you need to be successful in a job.

      I hope this is helpful, and I wish you the greatest of luck.

    13. Retail manager*

      In addition to questions in advance I wonder about an opportunity to see the space for the interview in advance and a list of interviewers – ideally with pictures but you could probably find those by googling. That way you have fewer unknowns when it comes to the actual interview.

      I agree with everyone recommending leaving the room with a panic attack. I think that shows you would also handle it that way at work if you got the job – which is a good thing. Same as if you had an uncontrollable coughing fit, asthma attack, vomit, etc.

    14. bamcheeks*

      I did lots of interview prep with a friend/former colleague who had huge anxiety around interviews. Basically we walked through lots of interview questions, and she just took as much time as she needed to breathe through the anxiety and get to a point where she was comfortable answering.

      Lots of places will provide the questions in advance, so if you can work through them with someone you can see if there are particular topics/experiences which are likely to be triggers for you. It definitely helped my friend get to the point where she knew that eg. thinking about a traumatic experience at a previous job was going to be a trigger, but that she found a version of it she could talk about that felt authentic but not as closely associated with the real situation, if that makes sense. Having a set of words and phrases to say about that example that she had rehearsed helped distance the stressor.

      If you’re a woman, have a look and see if Smart Works operate in your area, or any other organisations which can provide support with job seeking and mental health and can provide interview coaching.

      best of luck– it was a horrible situation and really difficult for my friend. But she DID get the job!

  15. dude, who moved my cheese?*

    Best tips for networking at a conference where you (a) don’t know anyone and (b) are going primarily to make new industry connections?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      There was recently a re-print of the “How do I politely end conversations at networking events?” letter (letter #4 of the “giving extra time off to people who get married, rejected me because I was late for the interview, and more” post from September 25, 2024).

      Exiting conversations is a small part of networking, but it is important and it’s often overlooked.

    2. JustMyImagination*

      I always arrive right on time to the social events when I’m alone at a conference. It means it’s a little less crowded and any conversations that have started, aren’t really in depth yet so it’s easier to just join in on what people are talking about.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        This seems like such a good tip that is SO opposite of my natural inclinations (my natural inclinations are NOT conducive to networking, so that makes a ton of sense)
        Thanks!

    3. Margaret Cavendish*

      One of the great things about conferences is that nearly everybody is there for networking and making industry connections. And many of them will be just as nervous as you are!

      So there’s nothing wrong with just walking up to someone and introducing yourself. Then you can ask questions like:
      ~How are you enjoying the conference?
      ~Did you go to the llama grooming session? What did you think?
      ~What does your organization do?
      ~What’s your role within the organization?
      ~Do you live in [conference city] or did you travel to get here?

      The idea is not that you ask a bunch of rapid-fire questions and then move on to the next question (or the next person). The idea is that you ask a question or two as a way of beginning a conversation – the same way you would in all kinds of other situations. And this is even easier than a lot of other situations, because everybody is there for the same reason. You’ll be fine!

    4. chocolate muffins*

      I am in academia so I’m not sure how relevant this is to the kind of conference you’re going to, but before I knew people at conferences I would look at the program in advance and e-mail people whose research overlapped with mine to see if they wanted to chat. Some didn’t (and some didn’t get back to me) but many did! Now that I think of it I still do this now to get to know new people, even though I now already know many people at these conferences.

    5. The Prettiest Curse*

      Depending on the size of the conference, look into whether they have an app or networking tool where attendees can set up 1-to-1 meetings, create a profile and tag themselves as having specific interests. If you can set up a few short meetings in advance, do that as well as the general networking sessions. Also, check whether any of the networking sessions are sponsored by companies who may be of interest, as they will likely have representatives at the session.

      1. Kamala Kokonuts*

        After reading this I checked the conference I’m going to (pretty much the same set up as the OP) and found they provide a list of attendees. This will help me either connect before hand, set up something there, or follow-up.

    6. Ann O'Nemity*

      Look for events and opportunities for first time attendees. Don’t be afraid to tell people you’re new. I’ve found most conferences to be extremely welcoming of new attendees.

    7. Hillary*

      One of the best pieces of advice from “how to work a room” (yes, that was an actual session in my mba program) was to join groups of odd numbers. The group will unconsciously reorient because they’re not currently in pairs.

      One is the exception. If someone’s focusing on their phone leave them alone, but if they’re alone and looking around the room go say hi.

      Margaret’s advice is spot on.

      Beyond that, bring a ton of business cards if you have them, download the linkedin app and learn how to use the connect qr code, and download the conference app if there is one. I take breaks every couple hours to make notes on everyone I’ve met and what future follow up should look like.

      1. Hillary*

        Also, if you’re part of an underrepresented demographic (hi, other women at supply chain conferences!) seek them out when you need a break. Everyone in the demographic is going through the same nonsense and a little solidarity goes a long way.

        My stretch goal is to sit with different people at every meal.

    8. Festively Dressed Earl*

      Have a few conversation questions/topics prepared ahead of time so you don’t have to rack your brains for an icebreaker. Any industry news that’s dropped within the past week, a few books and/or movies, the city you’re visiting – mix it up.

    9. allathian*

      My annual professional conference’s coming up next week. The first time I went 12 years ago, I didn’t know anyone, but the event started with lunch so I just sat down somewhere and introduced myself.

      Every year after that, I’ve tried to connect with at least one new person, as well as talk to people I already know. It’s a fairly small conference, about 150 attendees, so it’s doable and there’s only one stream. In 2020 it was canceled for obvious reasons, 2021 was a webinar, in 2022 I was sick and couldn’t go, last year was great, and I’m looking forward to this event because it’s in my city so I don’t have to travel.

    10. ThatOtherClare*

      Pay close attention to any talks by new, timid or young presenters. Then afterwards seek them out and tell them what interested you about their talk and ask any questions you might have. They’ll be very grateful because most people want to schmooze with the well established presenters. But today’s beginners are tomorrow’s experts, and some of them know the big names. Laying down a lot of genuine, warm relationships with the little guys will build you a real network much faster than all the work required trying to hunt down and impress a few big fish.

  16. Ripley*

    My office is also freezing, and I have a fuzzy throw blanket that I keep folded under my desk, and I put it over my lap and legs on the particularly bad days. You can’t even really tell it’s there if I’m working at my computer. I also have an electric heating pad that I put between my back and the chair sometimes, and that helps too.

    My feeling is if they’re not going to heat the office to a comfortable temperature, I’m going to do what I have to do.

  17. Valerie Loves Me*

    Any older professionals out there who can share some advice on how to effectively downsize your career? I’ve been doing my job for 25+ years. Have never felt quite good at it and now that I’m older, I’d like to find something that’s a little less taxing on my work/life/emotional balance. Nothing drastic, but having trouble finding the next iteration of my career that I can … well, for lack of a better word … coast. I want to lean into what I do well, get rid of what I don’t and drop the after hours portion of my job that’s typically required in my field (I’m in PR)

    1. English Rose*

      For me, it was stopping managing people. Bliss!
      But also I’ve managed to train myself not to be as competitive. For example I have a co-worker who is all go go go all the time, stays late, gets a lot of the limelight. Younger me would have tried to match them overtime for overtime, but now I just stay in my lane.

      1. Valerie Loves Me*

        I moved into my current job to get rid of the management aspect. (Bliss, indeed. Managing people is hard!) My old job wasn’t prepared to have me take a step back and in fact kept giving me more responsibility. But, while I got rid of one stressor, my current position has me on call more often than not, which is a different stressor. :P

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Sorry I don’t have any personal advice on this, hope you get some good feedback.
      My mom’s plan on this was to wind her hours down to part time over a period – as a rough guesstimate, year 1 she was full time, year 2 she worked 4 days, year 3/4 she worked 3 days, year 5 she worked 2 days, and year 6 she was ‘coverage’ so they scheduled her when needed (NOT on call, just the last person on the schedule list). She found that the natural result of not being able to handle everything as her hours dropped (and before that, when it was known that would eventually be the case) was that the worst tasks (especially last-minute BS) drifted to other unlucky souls, the neediest employees would find someone else to glom onto, and she was able to get back to the ‘bare bones’ of the career she liked.

    3. Pay no attention...*

      From my observation, this is where a lot of late-career PR people become consultants either self-employed or at a consulting firm. On the surface that sounds like upsizing but they evaluate other PR people/departments, make recommendations based on best practices, and leave it to someone else to implement.

      1. Don’t put metal in the science oven*

        This is what I did. It’s taxing to form your own company & all that entails, but I was able to pick clients and work about half time. I was in an industry where I had a lot of contacts and that was key to finding gigs. There are definitely stressful downsides like buying your own health insurance (which can cost $1500 a month), feeling like you’re always looking for the next job and tending to overwork at first bc you’re scared if you turn down a job, they’ll forget about you & you want to build a client base. But, after 2 years it worked great for me.

    4. 2 and a Possible*

      Jobs that require scheduling, coordinating and organizing depending on the industry or topic can be not too taxing.

    5. Cordelia*

      I think stopping the constant push to upsize (is that a word?) is what’s helped me the most. I don’t intend to move any further up in my profession, so when I take a job I don’t need to think of the impact it will have on my career prospects. I don’t have to take a job that I know I won’t like just because it’s the next step on the ladder, or because it will be good experience, or look good on my resume.
      I have actually moved a step back down the ladder, from management to individual contributor. The important factor here was that I moved employers and locations. A friend of mine tried to do similar – she went part-time in her old job, and moved down a step, but because everyone knew her and knew what she was capable of, she just got expected to do pretty much what she was doing before in less time and with less pay. Mine worked better because I started afresh.

    6. Ann O'Nemity*

      Identify what you want to keep. What aspects of your job do you love and excel at? What tasks do you want to get rid of?

      Look for consulting of freelance opportunities so you can pick your projects and set your own hours.

      Or, consider internal coms or in-house roles, which frequently have fewer after-hours demands.

      Tailor your resume and LinkedIn for a scaled-down role. Align for the type of work you’re looking for, and downplay or cut responsibilities tied to high stress and after hours.

      One caution – don’t assume that taking a lower level role with less pay will automatically have less stress. It doesn’t always work that way!

    7. Synaptically Unique*

      My husband moved from managing in an intense environment (with on-call responsibilities) to an individual contributor role in a related government office. Pay cut was significant, but the stress level also went down significantly. He got to go to work, do his best for 8 hours 5 days/week and then leave it all at the office.

  18. Worth mentioning this quirk?*

    I have a newer direct report who’s great. She’s VERY thorough and in terms of quality of work, probably the best hire I’ve had in 6 years.

    She’s a bit quirky in her communication style in that she overcommunicates and due to her thoroughness, she asks tons of questions and sends too many messages. Most are fine but some are unnecessary. Examples below:

    Situation: I asked her to send me a report. She’ll email me the report, then message me on teams letting me know she emailed me.

    Situation: I respond to her via email to clarify something. She’ll respond via email and then on Teams, saying “thank you for the email!”

    We’ve already had a conversation about her asking too many questions on teams and to consolidate them or wait until our weekly 1:1’s if it’s not urgent.

    Worth letting her know she doesn’t need to send messages like that or accept it’s a quirk and let it go?

    1. londonedit*

      I think it’s definitely worth letting her know. Doesn’t need to be anything formal – just a ‘There’s really no need to send me a follow-up message on Teams if you’ve also sent me an email. You can assume I’ll see the email and get to it as soon as I can!’ Could be that she’s worried you won’t see it unless she points it out to you, or something. But it would really annoy me so I think it’s worth a friendly ‘Hey, thanks but you don’t need to keep doing that’.

      1. Zephy*

        As Alison has pointed out numerous times, if the actual goal is for her to *stop* sending the Teams messages, OP should actually say that in those words. “You don’t need to do the thing,” to people with this kind of compulsion (maybe trained into them by a prior bad boss, maybe a personal quirk), still sounds like they can do the thing – the response will be “Oh, but I don’t mind doing the thing!” and then you’re still in the situation with the annoying behavior. “Please stop” or “please don’t” is much clearer.

        1. ecnaseener*

          That’s true, but in this case I think it really is a “make sure she knows she doesn’t have to” situation and not a “make her stop” situation. It’s a minor annoyance that the asker is willing to accept as a quirk, ergo it’s not an actual problem.

        2. Slow Gin Lizz*

          I agree about being clearer in communication with her. That said, you can be clear without making it seem like she’s doing something wrong (what she’s doing isn’t wrong, per se, it’s just unnecessary and distracting). You could maybe phrase it like, “I check my email regularly and I find it very distracting* to receive the same information in both email and Teams. Going forward, please use email as our default communication platform and use Teams only if something is urgent.”

          * Alternate wording: “I have a hard time keeping track of all the information I need when I receive the same information in both….” or choose your own wording entirely.

    2. Flor*

      Is this negatively impacting you beyond slightly eyerolliness? Like if it’s interrupting your focus so you’re less productive, or if it’s doing that for your other direct reports. If it is, then it’s something that needs to be addressed because it’s not just a quirk then; it’s affecting your team’s ability to work effectively.

      The only other reason where I think it’s worth saying something is if she’s new to the workforce, in which case a conversation about communication norms might be doing her a favour.

      But if she’s an experienced professional and it’s not having a negative impact on your/your team’s productivity then I’d just treat it as a quirk and leave it be.

    3. EA*

      I’d say this to her really directly, phrased as “Please don’t do this” vs. “You don’t need to…” which leaves the door open for her to do it anyway. I’d say something like:

      “Please don’t send me a Teams message to let me know that you emailed me or to thank me. I get push notifications for my email anyway, so it’s not necessary.”

      Related questions just to reflect on:
      Do you reply to her emails to confirm reception of reports? I know some office cultures do this and some do not.
      Do you generally reply quickly or is some of her Teams messages a subtle push for you to reply faster?

    4. Colette*

      I think you can address it – but if you don’t want to, you can just make it unrewarding (e.g. ignore the messages entirely.) If she’s asking for something or if you’re having a conversation, respond normally, of course.

    5. Valerie Loves Me*

      I feel like she may be an overachiever/overcommunicator… but also this seems like an ingrained response from a previous work environment. My guess is that she was either told she didn’t communicate enough or she had a supervisor who was not organized and this was how she managed it. I think she just needs to know what your preferred channel of communication is or how you use each platform, so she can adjust how she responds to you.

      1. Bast*

        I can see this being the case. At Old Job, owner of the company was very disorganized, and always behind on emails. It was told to all new hires to never just email Company Owner and expect him to respond, but to follow up with either a phone call or an interoffice message, or he likely would “forget” to read it. Sometimes, it would take more than one call or message for him to read an email. You might be thinking then — why not just discuss everything on the phone or through the interoffice message system? You’d quickly learn the hard way that Company Owner was quick to say, “I don’t remember that conversation” “You never told me that” etc, etc., so it was better to have the email paper trail (that you’d have to remind him to read anyway) and then follow up.
        The name of the game there was CYA.

      2. RLC*

        My first thought also, this is a carryover from a previous work environment. If so, clearly and gently spelling out your communication expectations might help.

    6. noname today*

      I’m far from being a new hire, but I tend to do the same—until I know which vehicle the person I’m working with prefers (also when I deliberately move from Teams to email to aid in forward-ability to TPTB/those who actually do the work).

      Telling her she doesn’t need to do both is not the same as identifying which vehicle you prefer and why—and if there’s a difference in when you use one over the other.

      FWIW I tend to take the both a belt and suspenders approach when the person I’m communicating with doesn’t appear to have a reason for jumping between email and teams—and I’m concerned they’ll miss something urgent.

      Also outlook now has the same like features as teams and texts—so if she just wants you to know she’s seen it, you can tell her to do that instead.

    7. English Rose*

      I think you’d be doing her a favour by letting her know, very directly, as EA says. You might accept it as a quirk, but as she progresses in the org, this is bound to annoy others who will just think she’s not a good communicator.

    8. RagingADHD*

      Yes, it’s worth saying something like, “Either Teams or email works to notify me of something. Please don’t send duplicate messages, because all my messaging platforms are very full already.”

    9. MultipleChannels*

      Does she do it simultaneously? I tend to start with messaging then send an email or, if it’s really time sensitive, call if they don’t respond. Sometimes my second communication will be “I sent you details via Slack – can you take a look and get back to me by X time if at all possible”.

      I also second the ingrained from a previous job comment. I’ve worked for bosses who were difficult to reach and I ended up sending both messages and emails for anything important because it doubled my chance of being seen and getting a response. If I’m stressed out or in a time crunch it’s easy to revert to old habits.

  19. melusine*

    I work in a teapot shop that’s going through hard times and I’m the Senior employee that knows glazes, storage, clay acquisition, and painting. The pay in our industry is notoriously low, and my previous coworker just quit.

    Last week my boss offered me $100 come in earlier than I usually do. This week, the same.

    What language can I use to leverage this instability and the increase in my responsibilities into a raise? Haven’t had one since 2019.

    1. EA*

      Do you just want a raise or do you want to permanently extend your hours, or change your role? That would change how I would address it. And the teapot metaphor makes it kind of to hard to actually understand the industry and give relevant advice.

      1. melusine*

        Theoretically the extended hours are temporary because of increased workload and shorter deadlines, but I can’t keep doing 12hr days. Even if we hire someone new, training them will be part of my responsabilities.

        My role has already been changed multiple times and I just want to be compensated for it. The industry is graphics production related.

        1. Pay no attention...*

          So is the $100 a bonus in addition to the overtime you earn for your extended hours, or is it the only extra pay you are getting?

          I would be cautious about tying a pay raise to the extended hours, especially if you aren’t being paid overtime, because then the boss might feel he has his solution and it could become your official new hours. ie. Boss: “I gave you a raise because of the extended hours, so now those are your hours or I take the raise back.”

          If it’s a bonus in addition to overtime, you might be able to leverage a bigger bonus and that would at least encourage the boss to find a better solution so your hours can go back to normal. It has to “hurt” him more than it “hurts” you.

    2. Hyaline*

      I don’t want to be a downer, but if the shop has hit hard times, you simply don’t get regular raises so this is an unusual request, you’re understaffed, and the boss’s solution to that understaffing is throwing an extra $100 at you on a week by week basis….this is probably not a great time to try to leverage a raise. I think you can try–“If this increase of responsibility is going to become part of my job moving forward, I’d like to discuss a title change with raise or at least a bump in compensation”–but honestly, I think if you want to earn more money, it might be time to consider changing jobs.

      1. melusine*

        Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think I’m going to give my one month notice next month. I need the deadline to leave.

  20. Junior Dev (now midlevel)*

    Advice for dealing with a work situation that is bringing up old bad feelings from an old bad job?

    Earlier in my software career I got fired from 1) job A for “taking too long” to complete certain tickets (I later learned that a coworker had it out for me and advocated to get me fired – long story, but I believe the person I heard it from) and 2) a few years later, from job B for not being independent enough/asking too many questions as a senior developer, when I was having serious health problems and difficulty concentrating as a result. I took most of a year off to figure out what was wrong with my health before getting the current job.

    Now a confluence of issues is bringing up old feelings from those situations even though some of what’s going on now is good and wanted. I advocated at work to take on projects in a new programming language that I wanted to learn, and I’m having to ask for help a lot, and between scope creep and being new at it, it’s taking way longer than expected. I’m glad it is happening but I find myself getting tense and overly worried about the whole thing, and have already gotten feedback that I’m taking too long on trying to do it alone rather than asking for help.

    I’m also having trouble managing my chronic illness lately and it’s not nearly as bad as when I got fired but it does mean I’m more tired and generally feeling worse. So that scares me too. I feel defensive and paranoid when I have a bad day and don’t get a lot done and find myself coming up with justifications for it in my head.

    Any advice for dealing with the emotions here? Realistically I think I am already doing the right things at work and I worry that seeking reassurance from my boss (who is also the main one working with me on the new project) will make things worse for me at work. But if anyone knows of wording that conveys something good and not just “I’m terrified of getting fired and emotionally needy about it” I’m open to having that conversation.

    1. Michelle Smith*

      The boss is not the person I’d be going to for reassurance. I’d be talking about it extensively with my therapist, who is pretty much my go-to person for any conversations around my insecurities and past trauma. Do you have a therapist?

      1. Junior Dev (now midlevel)*

        I do, yes. I was thinking more in terms of “asking my boss about whether my current performance is good” which some people have suggested to me (including my therapist, I think) but in this instance I don’t think I can calibrate well whether the question is reasonable or will come off as overly emotionally needy.

    2. In My Underdark Era*

      I kinda feel like I could’ve written this! it’s so hard to try and keep a lid on it and downplay the effect that a chronic illness can have on your concentration/performance. the person who gave you feedback that you’re taking too long at your current job- do you get the impression they’re reasonable? could you tell them outright that you have a hard time asking for help because of a prior work experience, and unlearning that is a work in progress? (this would be a convo to have when receiving feedback, not out of the blue- I think it’s fine to directly ask for feedback occasionally, but you really don’t want to venture into “boss, please be my emotional support” territory)

      I work at a consistently slower pace than my coworkers, and I’ve had to fight with myself so much to hold fast against the Shame Spiral because of it. but I’ve found that the best thing I can do for myself and my team is to be as honest as I’m comfortable with when it comes to my faults, my role, and my blockers.

      example: “I’ve had to work on asking for help more often, because it’s not something that comes to me easily. I have a tendency to spend too long trying to get things right on my own before pulling in other team members for input, so I really appreciate it when people check in with me or make themselves available when I ask for their help.”

      as for actually asking for help, here is some language that I think has helped me through some rough tickets.

      when I have no idea what is intended for a ticket: “this ticket doesn’t have much information- does anyone have any insight into what the intended changes were for this?” (and when no one does: “I really am not sure what changes were intended for this ticket, so I’m just going to put up a code review and you can tell me what I’m missing here.” <– adjust wording as desired, but the crux is that you're communicating the consequence of a lack of support/information.)

      in a similar vein: "I have some ideas about the design for this feature, but I'd like to get some more eyes on it. if I put up a draft, is anyone available to swarm on it with me today?"

      and I think the two biggest things for me to keep in mind when I'm struggling to ask for help are:
      1) by asking for help, I am normalizing this behavior on my team so that my teammates can follow my example and feel more comfortable asking for these things as well (this also applies to taking time off for bad health days, if you're able to and comfortable talking about it even a little bit)
      and 2) I don't mind at all when someone asks ME for help! we're a team! it's our job! we're stronger together, rah rah rah! so why should I think that it's only a problem when I do it?

      I didn't mean for this to be so long but I hope that even a fraction of it is useful haha

    3. govvie*

      If you are worried about the feedback you’ve received so far and you feel comfortable talking with your boss, you could discuss your concerns, but focusing on the impact on your work work, not on your emotions. If I were your boss, I would be open to a discussion about how the project was going and any timeline/workload adjustments that need to be made. It would also be helpful in that conversation to hear things like, “I’m dealing with a flare up of a chronic illness that makes it harder for me to be as productive as usual.” That would let me as the boss set expectations based on our capacity. If you haven’t already talked through when and how quickly to ask for help, that might be useful too. You can ask for explicit guidance, like don’t spend more than 4 hours on this or ask for help if you can’t debug an error in this part of the code.

    4. Not that Leia*

      I’m a manager, and while I agree that it’s not really appropriate to ask for reassurance, I think it can have the same effect if you are able to be more proactive about identifying realistic timelines and accommodations. For example, I’d way rather hear: “I am finding this task more complex than anticipated. Can we push the deadline a week?” than getting to the deadline and finding out that something isn’t actually done.
      That also lets you open up a conversation so hopefully if there’s something that your boss would like to see differently, there’s an opportunity to discuss. And ideally, the fact of having those conversations gives you some reassurance!

    5. Mad Scientist*

      I know it’s been said in this comment section frequently, but this seems like a good thing to talk to a therapist about!

    6. H.Regalis*

      I think you should talk to a therapist or a counselor. They’re the best sort of person to help you learn manage the way you’re feeling. You shouldn’t have to carry around the scars from bad past jobs for the rest of your life.

    7. The Coolest Clown Around*

      I have a chronic illness that also sometimes impact my concentration, and I’ve found that it helps to

      a) give my boss a heads up that something has changed, it isn’t permanent, and I’m taking steps to mitigate the impact on work (when that makes sense).

      b) set expectations about what impact that’s likely to have at work.

      c) ask for any accommodations you need to keep getting things done right now. A block of focus hours with headphones and coworkers knowing you shouldn’t be distracted? A regular check-in point once a week with all your questions so you aren’t chasing your boss down all the time? Any modifications to your physical environment?

      Ex: “Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been dealing with some health issues lately that have been kind of taking it out of me. I’ve got it covered and it’s not a forever thing, but it’s slowing me down right now so I’m not sure I can get both projects completed this week, but I can get everything done by Wednesday. Is project A or B higher priority for you? It would really help me get work knocked out if you’d authorize me to turn Teams and email off for the afternoons this week and ask coworkers not to bother me for non-emergencies during those periods.”

    8. Etchings*

      I would agree about the therapist. Alternatively, Nicole Sachs has a method for processing emotions (it’s basically expressive writing, but it’s a whole thing) that I would personally use if I was in a similar situation, and recommend.

      It sounds hard, what you’re going through at the moment. Memories from when-work-went-bad-before can be so powerful. But that’s what this is about: memories, and powerful old hurts, influencing your current perspective and actions. It’s about what’s going on in your mind, so – maybe with the right support – you have it in your power to start making a change.

  21. JustaTech*

    Recommendations for headset for video calls?

    I need a recommendation for a headset for video calls. I had been using a very elderly pair of Bose wired, over-the-ear headphones, but they’re my personal nice headphones so I don’t want to leave them at the office and I don’t like lugging them home every day. So I got a cheap on-ear headset that works fine but gives me a headache after an hour.
    But my main struggle is that I can’t figure out how to wear my glasses with either of these headsets. Right now I just take my glasses off and it’s fine (the glasses are for distance), but it feels weird to constantly take my glasses off.

    Does anyone have a suggestion for a reasonably priced (~$100 or less) headset that’s compatible with glasses? Thanks!

    2. English Rose*

      I haven’t tried them myself, but a friend swears by bone conduction headset with mic that you can get at various price points.

    3. Llellayena*

      Look into over-ear gaming headsets. I’ve got a set (brand HyperX? I don’t have the box anymore but that’s what’s written on the headset) that was about $40, if I’m recalling right. It’s comfortable with my glasses and good quality sound. In fact, when my office switched us all to wireless on-ear headsets I kept my over-ear, plug-in ones instead specifically because the on-ear ones hurt with my glasses. I seem to have lucked out because the wireless ones occasionally have connectivity issues, my wired ones never do!

      1. Headphones for the win*

        I second this recommendation; I am really happy with my wireless HyperX gamer’s headphones. They work well when I have to wear my reading glasses, the overear size and cushion is really comfortable, the head band part and mic boom adjust easily and the battery charge lasts even if I’m using them all day. I’m in my fourth year of use, too.

        I do look like I’m on the Mars Rover command team or NASCAR pit crew, but having the ear pieces large enough to not sit on my ears is worth it. It helps mute the other sounds so I hear the call (and my own voice) better. I’m sure I speak in much more normal tone.

    4. ArtK*

      I use Anker Soundcore A1 earbuds. Unlike some (er… Apple), they aren’t one-size-fits-all; they’ve got multiple fittings to match your ears. They hold a charge pretty well and the sound is fine.

    5. RagingADHD*

      I wear glasses and use a Steelseries Arctis gaming headset. Extremely comfortable, and never had a problem with my glasses. I often forget I’m wearing it.

    6. mreasy*

      I use wired earbuds with a microphone on the wire for this use (I have an Apple laptop so I just use theirs, which are $20). I have never been able to find a mouthpiece headset that fit my head and glasses without causing a headache.

  22. call me wheels*

    Oh man I typed out a long update but it doesnt seem to have posted? The quick version is:

    – I have a job now! 9 weeks of looking, around 80 applications and something like 11 interviews, 2 offers and here I am with a permanent, well paying part time job in an area I’m experienced in at a college (I was hoping to work in either a college or a uni so this is great!) This is my first job since graduating a few months ago

    – started my video game freelance work and it’s a dream so far ^_^

    – I can finally stop eating up my savings and contribute a larger share to rent + expenses, and buy some stuff I’ve been needing. Looking forward to getting my financial stuff properly set up and saving for the next big milestone with my partner :) feeling like a real grown up haha though I know saying it like that undermines my point somewhat lol

    Thank you to everyone who supported me on my previous posts about the journey and good luck to everyone still hunting!

      1. call me wheels*

        Thanks :) I think I mostly used Reed, Indeed, the temp jobs board that the unis local to me use, and jobs.ac.uk I think it is. Reed I think I was getting a lot of contact from recruiters from, (through the discover cv option and the applications I sent) some of that turned into interviews, Indeed I tended to hear back from individual companies I applied to but not the agencies so much, and from the educational institutions I had to do it through their individual websites and basically never heard back. I only wrote a handful of cover letters (most didn’t have the option to submit one that I could see) and I don’t think either of the jobs I got offered asked for one.

        And the video game work wasnt through a board, it was kind of a fluke, I got talking to the boss online after posting about the game a lot all year and asked about applying on the off chance and it went from there. Worked out nicely but kind of hard to replicate unfortunately haha

  23. Dr. Doll*

    I had asked a few weeks ago for input on applying to a big shiny new job when I’d really like to retire next year. Update: I went ahead and applied, because if I didn’t do that I’d cut off the option. Now I’m trying my best to walk away whistling and assume I’ll never hear from them. It’s only been a couple of weeks, and academia is of course notoriously slow in hiring.

  24. Joielle*

    Looking to develop a policy on what happens with a person’s laptop and login info when they’re on long term leave. What does your workplace do? On one hand, it seems prudent to get the equipment back when it’s clear they’re going to be out for an extended period, but on the other hand, we don’t want to pester a person who’s going through something serious.

    We can plan ahead for an anticipated leave, but I’m thinking more in the situation where someone is out for medical reasons and ends up needing to extend the leave unexpectedly.

    Thanks!!

    1. Colette*

      Some thoughts:
      – there’s a difference between planned sick leave, unexpected sick leave, parental leave, other leaves (e.g. unpaid LOA)
      – if someone is off and should not be working (which will be most of the time), suspend their access & set an out of office on their email.
      – equipment is harder; if you have a return date and that equipment would still be used when they return, let them keep it (unless you really need it back). If there’s no return date and you expect it to be a long time, ask for it back (& arrange shipping if necessary) but understand if that’s not possible. The standard laptop/monitor/etc. is relatively inexpensive compared to the cost of pestering someone who is out on sick leave.

    2. Zephy*

      Maybe you have a designated emergency contact who is responsible for shipping/retrieving/bringing work equipment to the office, once it is clear that the employee will be incapacitated for longer than X amount of time (1 week, 2 weeks, whatever makes sense)? That EC could be the same or a different EC than the individual you already have on file for normal emergency-contact reasons (e.g., if my normal emergency contact is my mom who lives in another state, maybe it makes more sense for me to put down my neighbor for this).

      Or you could add “retrieve work equipment from employees on extended leaves” to the duties of a specific role in the company (with a contingency plan for if *that* person is the one incapacitated; e.g., normally the HR Specialist is responsible for this but if they’re the one out it’s the HR Manager, or whatever). Obviously the company needs to cover the shipping cost with tracking, at minimum; if you can swing it, providing shipping materials would also be kind, and maybe prudent to ensure the laptop comes back in acceptable condition.

    3. Strive to Excel*

      This is somewhat less about the laptop specifically and more about login info/the reasons you’d need login info.

      – Make sure that access to employee email inboxes can be moved, as needed. If someone goes on leave unexpectedly, having someone monitor their inbox for critical client communications can be helpful. Even if it’s just senior IT.
      – Similarly, have a backup person for key clients/vendors/software. They don’t need to be perfect, but you don’t want to be in a situation where Bob is the only one who knows the information about where all the Microsoft 365 licenses are, and then Bob is out of town for a month. Having Mary as the designated backup Microsoft person means that if Bob is out of town, Mary can automatically step in.
      – Key files and information should be stored on shared servers, not on someone’s local desktop.
      – Having a template available as an OOF message is very helpful in both normalizing telling people “I’m away, please contact Mary” and in telling employees which information should be in the OOF message.
      – If you’re working with any sort of sensitive data (and I define this very broadly), your electronic devices *should* have a hard wipe and lockdown function built in. For this reason, do not make employees use their own electronic devices.

      I’ve never heard of a policy requiring a work laptop to be returned if a person is planning to go on leave; it wouldn’t be unreasonable, just a bit odd.

    4. Rara Avis*

      My employer never takes back laptops for leaves of any length. It’s hard for me to imagine the replacement not just being provided one of their own?

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        My old employer did. If you were on leave you were expected to turn in your company laptop and cellphone. I worked almost entirely remotely when I had knee surgery in 2019. My last day was Friday. On Thursday I received an Email from our (idiot) IT guy saying I would have to turn in my laptop and phone by EOB that day since he was off Friday.

        Emailed him and cc’ed my boss pointing that a) I was 70 miles away and not planning to drive to the office, especially since I would have needed the phone to track the reimbursable mileage and b) he might be off Friday but I was not. He responded by suggesting I could turn them in on Monday which was the first day of my leave and the day I had surgery.

        At that point my boss took over, shut the idiot down, and told me to turn off my laptop and phone when I finished on Friday and put them in my closet. Which I did.

    5. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I was on mental health leave for about a month once. My supervisor (who was pretty much the reason for the leave) called me a few days in to ask me for my cell phone and laptop because they were onboarding someone new.
      I immediately called HR because 1) it was a short term leave and I would be needing that work equipment in a month and also all of my clients knew my phone number? and 2) no you don’t get to call me while I’m on leave and make it sound like you don’t plan on me returning because that is not helping.
      HR told me to keep my stuff and I got no more calls from my terrible supervisor.

      Even if it’s going to be a longer leave, if the worker is on payroll, their equipment should not need to be returned. And login info doesn’t get shared. Access gets added to their back up person. I would never allow someone else to use my log in because all of their activity will look like mine.

      1. allathian*

        Doing that would be a possibly fireable offense at my job, both for the owner of the login and the abuser.

        Business is supposed to be conducted through our ticketing system only, because it is built on role-based shared email accounts to which users can be added easily. Firstname.lastname@company.com accounts are basically never shared, the only exception is our Biggest Boss, his EA has access to his email & calendar.

        At my org, if your leave is longer than 3 months, you have to return your equipment.

    6. HorribleIdea*

      This seems weird and problematic, and also adding a great deal to the burden of employees who may be going through something dreadful. Plus, when I went on an unexpected 3 month disability leave, I was expected to communicate with my boss about my leav using tooling found on my laptop.

      Maybe if you’re talking about a 1-2 year sabbatical it would make sense, but otherwise just leave it be.

      PS In my case I’m visually impaired and some laptops don’t work for me (they can’t handle display settings I need). I cannot tell this ahead of time and, once I find one that works, it takes me a long time to configure. I can’t drive so logistical stuff is difficult even when I’m not dealing with an illness, bereavement, or other issue. If you tried to take my laptop away it would be counterintuitive, costly, and possibly cause me to miss several extra days of work sorting out logistics and be non-productive for a few more as I configure a new machine – and possibly have to do that multiple times if some laptops don’t work for me.

      Just don’t do it.

      If you need to cut off access to certain financial or more secure systems maybe that would be understandable, but I question even that.

    7. Hyaline*

      Why? I feel like the reason you want that equipment or access to it really depends on the reason WHY you want it. If it’s because other people need the equipment to do their work, then I think it makes sense to have additional backups so you don’t bug people on leave. If it’s access to files, there’s almost certainly an IT fix- ways to log into people’s cloud storage or whatever you need to get the actual files other people need. If it’s because you’re worried about losing the laptop….idk, I’d just let it go and trust that they’ll either return with it or return it if they don’t come back or, well, if they don’t return it, it’s because their needs outweighed returning a laptop.

    8. Anon for This*

      Do you need a policy or can you base it on the person’s needs?

      I have someone out with a serious health issue. The employee wants to feel needed, so when feeling well will log on for an hour or so.

      In another case, the employee clearly wasn’t able to do any work because of the nature of the illness, so we asked her what she wanted. We picked up the laptop and suspended the account (she eventually retired for medical reasons and we then deactivated it.)

      Having general guidelines is not a bad idea, but this can be very situation dependent.

    9. Admin of Sys*

      So there’s another factor to consider, which is whether there’s something that requires the laptop to be connecting at regular intervals? Our environment has 90 day windows on licensing, so if they’re out and disconnected for more than 3 months, their machine will stop working in some ways. Similarly, if they’re offline, will their machine patch? Are their updates they’ll miss? That said, we tend to treat it from the viewpoint of worrying about it when they’re back. If necessary, there will be forwarding setup on email, and an alert set on the account that it either should be expected from unusual places (the hospital or whatever) or that it shouldn’t be expected to connect. And if they’ll miss a password change or the like, we may suspend it. But the machine is generally considered not worth worrying about unless there’s a concern the employee isn’t coming back. We make a note that there’s expected support needed when they / the machine returns, but we don’t make them send it back while they’re away.
      All that said, our office has good remote work support, so unless someone is really and truly incapable of work, they often remote in, out of boredom if not unrealistic work ethic. So there’s not many situations where someone is actually offline for more than a month.

    10. Aerin*

      In our org, setting someone’s status to Leave triggers their accounts to be disabled (but not removed). They will generally be working with an HR contact who will determine their return date and make sure the necessary systems get updated. When they are set back to Active, it should automatically reactivate nonprivileged accounts, while privileged accounts will need to be manually activated. There can be other snags too–we usually tell people to anticipate at least a few hours and up to a couple of days to get everything back online and ready to go the first day back.

      Hardware always stays with the employee, though, and I think it’s up to the user’s manager to get it back if the user ends up not returning. If they are unsuccessful at getting the employee to bring/ship it back, it gets reported as lost or stolen. (I don’t know if they actually pursue charges or anything like that, but as far as IT is concerned it’s handled the same.)

    11. Chauncy Gardener*

      It has really depended on the situation, but generally we’ve done an out of office message, plus had their emails forwarded to their manager. We let their equipment stay with them (we’re 100% remote) until things resolved. If they end up coming back to work, great! If not, then we initiate them sending it back.

  25. To cc/bcc or not to cc/bcc*

    I’m wondering when you cc or bcc your manager on things.

    Most of our team’s communication seems to happen in a chat client, but I have one teammate (a peer and we have the same manager) who seems to use email for certain questions or information exchanges. (it often feels like the creation of a “paper trail” in a way that both confuses me and makes me feel uncomfortable).

    This teammate does not cc our manager, but sometimes, the contents of these emails feel contentious or defensive, and sometimes I want to cc our manager but don’t because something about adding a cc feels like an escalation.

    so, are there rules or guidelines on when to cc manager? bcc feels kind of sneaky and useless to me, but maybe I am out of step with email usage and etiquette.

    thanks!

    1. Colette*

      There are a couple of options.

      – forward the email to your manager and ask for input/clarification – e.g. “Hi Jen, I got this email from Chris and it seems like there’s something going on I’m not aware of – do you have any thoughts?”
      – copy your manager and explicitely say so – e.g. “I’m copying Jen because she has a better view of the timeline”

    2. WorkerDrone*

      I’m having a kind of hard time figuring out the issue here and how cc’ing your manager would address it.

      If someone is creating a paper trail, I don’t see why that would confuse or make you uncomfortable. Paper trails protect basically everyone involved, including you. If this person is being contentious, and that issue needs to be raised with your boss or HR, you now have a paper trail to prove it. Maybe you feel uncomfortable because you feel like they’re making a paper trail “at” you? Like they’re trying to gather some kind of proof of you not doing a good job? But even then, assuming you’re doing fine at your job, the paper trail doesn’t disadvantage you in any way – it still protects you in case this co-worker escalates to behavior you need to report.

      I also don’t really see why you want to cc your manager. Is it to call attention to the tone of the emails? If that’s the case, sit down with your manager and have a conversation with them, and maybe bring one or two of the emails to use as an example.

      I don’t cc my manager unless I have a clear reason for it – to ask for a timeline, or information, or alert them to a specific issue.

      1. Tio*

        I’m kind of here. If the emails have an unpleasant tone to you, take them to your manager and have her read them and give her take on whether they are or not. If they are, she is the one who needs to see them anyway, and explain what she wants you to do/respond to them with. If not, then she can help you understand how you might be reading them a little wrong and reset your expectations.

    3. RagingADHD*

      We routinely cc our manager on almost everything because it’s team-based work.

      If I’m having an issue with someone, I forward the problematic email to my manager and ask to discuss it. I might cc or bcc after that, depending on the outcome of the discussion. But I don’t cc or bcc my manager on things that they have no context on and expect them to figure out why.

      I will, on occasion, cc my manager (or someone else’s manager) if it’s really bad, chaotic, or it’s clear that we are talking in circles, but that’s a pretty aggressive callout and I use it sparingly. In that case I will start the message with something like, “Manager, can you help us sort this out?”

    4. ecnaseener*

      In general, if I’m copying someone into an ongoing conversation, I say why in the body of the email — “copying Jane to see if she knows X,” “copying Jane to keep her in the loop,” etc. If you’re not comfortable doing that (because you’d have to write something like “copying Jane so she can see you’re being contentious”), then that’s a sign not to cc, because as you said it feels like an escalation. Forward it to your manager with a brief explanation of why you want her to see it, or even bring it up with your manager outside of email and see whether she wants to see the emails.

      I’d only bcc your manager if you’d previously discussed the situation with her and she’d told you to keep her informed. Weird vibes aside, it’s impractical to bcc her with no explanation — she can’t read your mind, and if there’s no action item for her in the first couple lines she skims, she might not read the whole thing anytime soon.

    5. Blue Pen*

      I’ll CC my manager on most inter-colleague/client communication in the first month or so after I’m hired just so they can have a better sense of what’s going on and when, how things are being communicated, can jump in with additional insight or context if they need to, etc. Of course, I always ask how often and in what circumstances they want to be CC’ed in on something early on, too, so I don’t have to guess.

      For Big Projects or initiatives where I know they want to be generally kept in the loop, I’ll CC them in on any of the major milestones or if I sense something is happening under the surface they’ll need to know about later down the line. Or if something is happening with someone else on the chain in a way where I don’t have the decision-making authority.

      Other than that, I leave them out.

  26. ArlynPage*

    I am interviewing for Job A and the hiring process is taking months, with no timeline or next steps provided. I’m also in the later stages of interviewing for Job B, but I prefer Job A and want to get an offer from them ASAP. A few days ago, I had an interview with the director of the program for Job A, which felt like a final-round sort of interview, but I haven’t heard from the recruiter or hiring manager about next steps or anything. I’m tempted to reach out to the hiring manager to let her know that I met with the director and am still really interested in the role, with the ulterior motive that I’m hoping she has a job offer or at the very least some light to shed on the timeline, but I don’t know how to phrase it in a way that isn’t too transparently like …soooo are you going to offer me the job or what?! The process so far has been:
    mid-July: applied for job A
    mid-August: phone screen with recruiter
    early Sept: interview with hiring manager
    mid Sept: interview with peer of hiring manager
    early Oct: interview with director of program

    So I haven’t communicated with the hiring manager at all since I sent a thank you after my interview with her in early September. Should I send a note to the hiring manager? Or stick with communicating with the recruiter and just wait until I hear from them?

    1. call me wheels*

      Not experienced enough to be able to say if you should reach out just yet but it seems like if you get an offer from B you would definitely be able to follow up and ask A for any updates?

      Last Friday I got a job offer from my version of job B and I said ‘I am interested but this is a temp role and there’s a permanent position I’m hoping to hear back from, can I have some time to consider’ and I emailed job A to explain the situation (didnt have any contact phone numbers). Monday morning I still hadn’t heard and job B were hoping for an answer, so I called up job A (after a lot of getting passed around different people to find someone who could answer me) and I just explained ‘I’ve been offered another job but I’m still really interested in this one, do you have any information about when a decision might be made?’ and the hr person said they were keen on me and they were just waiting for some final sign off from a manager who was in a meeting right now but she would email the offer soon. 20 mins later I got the offer, so I guess in that case it worked out because I think they were trying to make an offer soon anyway. I’m not sure I could have rushed them if they weren’t nearly ready already though.

      If you only just had the latest interview that doesn’t sound very long yet in hiring terms not to have heard anything so I hope it will go well for you! Good luck :)

      1. ArlynPage*

        Thank you! I don’t expect a decision from job B for at least a couple of weeks, so I’ve got some time to agonize!

        ( I just realized that you are the same person I replied to upthread about the job boards; congrats again on landing your job A!)

        1. call me wheels*

          Oh yeah haha, I forget usernames so quick. But yeah good luck I’m sure it’ll work out in the end!

    2. ecnaseener*

      Yeah, at this point just wait — at least for a couple weeks. The hiring manager knows you met with the director, there may be other finalists who have yet to meet with the director, it’s only been a few days, sit tight.

      If you have something genuinely relevant to say, like if something came up in conversation with the director that has since inspired new thoughts for how you could approach some aspect of the position, then you could send a note about that. But it has to be good — if it’s going to come across as “Just letting you know I met with the director and we talked about X,” the HM’s going to be like “…yeah, I know.”

  27. BananaArray*

    I’m beginning to feel like I’ll never have a job I like and am good at. I start of strong — people think I’m the best thing since sliced bread for the first six months — and then I make a human error and I get scolded, condescended to, or frozen out.

    It’s really getting to me.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      How many jobs are you talking about where this has happened? If it’s more than two, I would be looking hard at the patterns about what’s happening because this is a somewhat unusual pattern of events to have repeated across jobs.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      What else do these jobs have in common? Same industry? Similar employee demographics? Similar management styles/demographics?

    3. spcepickle*

      This is an odd pattern – I hire lots of people, some of whom are brand new to our industry, some of whom are experienced managers. Of course they make mistakes, and the 6 month mark is when I typically expect people to be moving from direct daily instruction to more independent job duties, which also means that is when they will make the most mistakes. I have never frozen them out, I have become concerned they can’t do the job I hired them for and set really clear expectations. I have also never thought a hire was the best thing since sliced bread because everyone has a learning curve even when the transfer from different departments and everyone comes in as an unknown because interviews are kind of roll of the dice.
      My guess is you get a new job, people are friendly because you are new, there are really clear cut directions because you are new, and somehow you having trouble moving into the day to day independent part of your job. I might also kindly hazard a guess that you are not as good as you think you are. There are tons of letters on this website, I am thinking of the intern who tried to get the dress code changed, or the guy who swears he never makes mistakes, where someone goes into a job trying to change everything or thinking they know everything and it ends poorly. So with your next job maybe go in with the idea that you spend the first 6 months learning, listening, figuring out the culture. Then ramp up from there to be your most spectacular self.

    4. NaoNao*

      I had this pattern and it lead to me getting a late in life diagnosis of Autism, which can present very differently in women (if you are a woman!). One thing I had to realize is that my technical skill is not enough. Building relationships and making friends–especially those that will support you, “cover” for you, defend you, or overlook human error, is huge. It may in fact be more important than technical skill in 90% of jobs. Use the company recognition system, use emoji or punctuation in emails to show enthusiasm, go out of your way to do small talk and jokes and whatnot on calls, read the room, and ask for help. People like to help and show expertise, let them!

      My “job” is not my job. My job is making my boss and the rest of the people “up the ladder” look good. So if a project is ambitious and exciting but has the potential to blow up and backfire, don’t suggest it. Slow and steady, and things the boss can take credit for and brag about is key. Whatever they SAY your job is, it’s not. It’s making the team look good. So that might be one reason why mistakes are causing a freeze-out–because a boss or bigwig got wrist-slapped because of that mistake.

      Another thing I had to do was learn to explain less. Even if I’m technically correct with a mistake or it’s very understandable, I had to swallow my pride and say “That’s on me. I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.” and leave it at that unless it’s a consistent pattern from someone else or genuine undermining or something.

      Always credit the team–*any* kudos you get, turn it around and thank the boss who’s giving it and the team under/around you. Make it clear that you succeed *and fail* as a team.

      1. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

        This comment sounds so familiar, especially the my job is to make my manager look good part. A long-ago manager, who was previously a classroom teacher, was finally explicit about that expectation, including how much pretending a situation was something other than reality was necessary for corporate and/or customers. (Not diagnosed with autism, but enough symptoms to be suspicious.)

      2. Annie*

        I’m especially interested in learning how to “read the room”. Are there any “Read the Room 101” books, courses, videos, article series, etc. that you are aware of? Whenever I’ve tried to look myself, I’ve been bombarded with “just do what feels right in the moment” tier advice, not “this is what to watch out for to ensure what you’re about to say in a given situation is likely to be well-received” type advice.

    5. Not Carolina*

      That is a very strange thing to have experienced repeatedly! Both the excessive praise and enthusiasm to begin with, and the extreme negative response to a mistake. Neither of those are typical ways to treat an employee, which makes me very curious – and concerned – about your workplaces and their culture and norms.

      Things I’d be reflecting on in your shoes: How many times has this actually happened? Is it possible that some of this may be your perception rather than an objective fact? Are you typically a perfectionist, and/or do you struggle with taking feedback and making mistakes? What do those workplaces have in common, and why did you wind up in multiple places that behaved in this very unusual and atypical manner – is there something about the type of work, the field, or your location perhaps, that makes this more likely than is usual in general?

      1. Tio*

        Yeah, this is a strange pattern. Here’s what I think:
        1. Either you are unconsciously selecting jobs with a toxic pattern like this, and should reevaluate what you’re looking for in your job
        2. You are misinterpreting either the initial welcome, the reaction to your mistakes, or both.
        3. The mistakes you are making are so bad for some reason that you’re creating shockwaves

        I would suggest talking through the specific reactions and specific mistakes with some pretty neutral people who can evaluate if they’re seeing the same thing as you when described

      2. Aerin*

        I’m also sensing some very skewed perception.

        How do you tend to classify people’s reactions in general? When you’re relating a story to someone else, how are you characterizing the other person? If you asked them to describe it back to you, would it match up with how it happened? Has there ever been a situation where you’ve been able to compare notes with someone about what happened, and did you maybe experience everything at a higher intensity than they did? Do you have any personal history outside of work, like with school or family, where the feedback you were given was always very extreme?

        I know that we Do Not Diagnose, but “rejection-sensitive dysphoria” is a thing you might look into and see if it sounds familiar. Patterns in general are worth investigating with the help of a neutral party like a therapist.

  28. Gaia Madre*

    I’ve enjoyed the re-runs this week, and I hope that you are feeling better, Alison. Take care.

  29. AnonForThis*

    Someone screwed up and got caught violating our institution’s moonlighting policy by working two jobs undisclosed; it’s a hospital so issues like malpractice coverage/etc. affects many personnel, and thus the policy is applied to everyone.

    Now my department – which has had most of us WFH since March 2020 – is having various divisions come in paired up a couple days a month to make sure we’re actually still working in-state (except where previously disclosed and approved) and doing the work. (They claim it’s for collaborating but we’re being paired with teams we don’t really work with much and I can’t see what would be useful to be done in a single day per month.)

    Plus we have activity tracking logs now. My division used to be very flexed in terms of hours worked but generally at least one person was working at pretty much any hour of the day, or at least from the wee hours of the morning until rather late at night. However, we’re being told that even though we’re exempt, we’re expected to not have flexibility in terms of working hours – we have to hold to a certain ‘core hours’ baseline (9-3) and not have any unexplained gaps in the day.

    This is basically encouraging us to not work ‘above and beyond’ as sometimes things will come in early/late and some people would previously work outside of standard hours to get something pushed through.

    I’m just annoyed. I know the activity tracking may be temporary, and the amount of return-to-office isn’t that burdensome, but my division at least was doing our work and doing BETTER by being able to be available at a wide span of time. And now we’re being pushed into not being able to break up our work availability across the day among the team.

    1. DisneyChannelThis*

      One rotten apple always ruins the whole pie!

      At least 9-3 is giving you a couple hours flex time still, 9-5 is 8 hours so you’ve got 2 hrs you could hold for late night work or early morning work. I’d push back on rushing work through outside of hours and cite the 9-3 as the reason why. You deserve downtime that’s not thinking about work or doing work! Long term, a work culture of after 5pm it can wait until tomorrow is so much healthier and it sounds like that may be the result of this shift at least!

    2. JustaTech*

      I’m sorry. You’re right to be annoyed, this isn’t smart management of one person who was doing something they knew was wrong. Collective punishments suck, but for some reason they remain as popular as insisting that if you’re not on-site you’re not working.

      (Yeah, we’re having some of this right now and it’s really damaging moral. It’s not reasonable to expect people to work nights and weekends and say “that’s how being salaried works!” and then turn around and demand that you’re also on-site 8-5 and never WFH. One or the other, but pick and stop expecting us to always get the short end of the stick.)

  30. Veruca Salt*

    I would definitely start to look around. None of these signals bode well, and its hard to pin-point what this PE Firm’s underlying motivation is. If they’re looking to sell in a couple of years, they’ll reduce overhead to increase EBITDA. If it was a strategic acquisition, they’ll be looking at what functions they can consolidate across their holdings, e.g., recruitment.

    When you take over a company, the golden rule is say that everything is great and will remain the same. This gives you the upper hand to get in there and see what you in fact do what to eliminate, outsource or consolidate. Obviously, I’m a bit of a skeptic when it comes to PE acquisitions. Maybe others have had rosier experiences.

    Regardless, it does not sound like things are heading in the right direction. You have one-and-a-half years under your belt which is not nothing, a corporate shake-up is as good a reason as any to leave a position, and Andy sucks.

  31. Cancer: Zero Stars, Hated It*

    Staying invested/motivated question:

    I am nearing the one year since I was diagnosed with cancer. Before the diagnosis, I was job searching. My job has the kind of health insurance that is unheard of in the US — basically everything has been covered at 100% and I’ve spent less than $500, including chemo, surgery, expensive immunotherapies, prescriptions, etc. Which is all to say, I have to stay at this job for the next few years as my treatment continues, because there is just no replicating this amazing insurance (at a medium sized non-profit, it’s a wild situation).

    But now that the worst of it is over (for now, barring recurrence), I … do not want to do any work. I’m not depressed. I want to do everything else that is not work. But the things that bugged me about my job before have only gotten worse. I’m in my mid-40s; retirement is NOT close at hand. So folks who have dealt with having to stay at a job that was just meh and unfulfilling, how did you stay and stay sane? And people who are dealing with things like cancer, when “what really matters” is front and center, and it is not your job. Except the part where that’s how you get to keep living. How do you just keep doing?

    Thanks!

    1. ArlynPage*

      First of all, congratulations on making it through your initial cancer treatment, and also I’m sorry you had to go through it and feel trapped at your current job. It might be worth taking a look at some job boards to see if any other role _does_ have great healthcare benefits, just to make sure you are truly stuck at this one. You might find that another role exists that is more exciting to you and can almost match the amazing benefits you currently have.

      If not, it might be worth looking into other roles at your nonprofit; is there a way to move to another role? Or can you talk with your manager about reducing your hours/days in a way that allows you to do something more inspiring with your time?

    2. Mrs. Rabbit*

      I struggled with similar feelings after my cancer treatments. Did you take substantial time off after treatment? Throughout mine, I kept working. While I was in the thick of chemo and everything, I guess I wanted normalcy? Something that wasn’t about me being sick? But towards the end, I was DONE. With everything. I was TIRED. I felt like nothing mattered. So I took two weeks off and loafed around. This may not resonate with you, but have you tried taking a few weeks of FMLA to let your body and brain reset from “I am actively dying” to “Okay, life will go on much the way it did before”?

      Also, huge congrats to you for getting through this!

      1. Cancer: Zero Stars, Hated It*

        Thanks for sharing your experience. I also worked during chemo (3 days/week), but took six weeks off after surgery, which came after chemo. Honestly, the surgery recovery was really easy [and not just in comparison to chemo — I legit just didn’t really have any issues and never had any pain, which … hooray and unexpected], so I didn’t “need” the six weeks. I work from home and would have been physically fine to go back after like 2 weeks. So I did feel like the following month was a reset. And yet. I’ve now been back for a few months and just mehhhhhh.

        Congrats to you as well on your journey. I definitely do not recommend cancer if you can avoid it, but I have been fortunate to have a ton of support and love.

    3. BellaStella*

      As a fellow cancer surviver congrats on making it thru this! Can you discuss options for a change (from maybe working 80% only to something like more interesting work) with your boss? Also can you take some fmla time off at the end of the year or ow to rest and reset?

      1. Blarg*

        I have been STRONGLY considering going down to 80% in the new year. I think I could afford it. Just didn’t want to ‘knee jerk’ that option, thus the waiting a bit before I choose. Because of our always not-quite-ideal funding, I may have a hard time going back up to full time later, but I’m leaning towards taking that risk.

    4. Rara Avis*

      I was going to post a very similar question. I finished cancer treatment in May, and am in theory back to normal. But everything about works seems more overwhelming, less manageable, and I’m exhausted all the time. I’m a teacher, so I had the summer off to recover, but I guess it wasn’t enough. But I need to keep my job to cover the rent and health insurance. So no helpful advice, just commiseration. I hope there are longer-term survivors who have more helpful words to offer.

    5. Trixie Belden was my hero*

      Congratulations on your recovery!

      I was in a similar situation (not cancer) 3 years away from retirement. My health was deteriorating but couldn’t retire before the set date. I was burned out and had a few sessions with an EAP counselor to help me get through things. Do you have an EAP program at your job? I was also able to get a transfer to another office, so that helped too.
      When I told her that I felt like I was in jail with my job she told me that wasn’t the case (or something nicer, can’t remember the exact words)
      She said that I CHOSE to stay in the job until retirement to get my full pension and health benefits and that I was in control of the situation. That was so VERY helpful in reframing my emotions and something I refer back to since then when I find myself upset about something. Combined with the new office, this shift in my thinking really helped me get to my retirement date in a better place and not so miserable.
      And then 3 months from my retirement date, the world went into lockdown…. but then I was finally able to catch up on my rest!

    6. Procrastination For the Win*

      I’m about 18 months out from finishing chemotherapy and nearly done with immunotherapy (one more infusion, yay!), and, wow, do I feel this. I worked through chemo, then had a couple of months off during the summer (education-related field) before returning to work and immunotherapy. That first semester back after my time off was incredibly difficult because I just Did Not Care about work. I was pretty burned out before the cancer diagnosis which might be part of the problem.

      I was able to pivot away from some responsibilities I disliked and made the conscious decision to lean hard into the aspects of the job that I enjoy and that feed my soul. Also I very consciously decided to let things go at work–not my responsibilities, but the politics, the upset over stupid decisions my bosses make, the pettiness of some coworkers. None of it matters and I no longer give it much space in my brain. I deliberately prioritize my own well-being. I’m ok at work now. To be honest, though, I think it’s as much just time passing as all the other things I did. I needed time to process everything that happened to me and settle into my new world.

      1. Blarg*

        Thank you for this insight. And congrats on nearing the end of trips to the infusion center! Your “I just Did Not Care about work” really sums up how I am feeling. I am trying to not be annoyed with regular work stuff, but I’ve always been the one who would advocate for stuff, the one who pushes back, so everyone still comes to me with their frustrations. I want to care, I just … cannot. Anyway, it is reassuring that maybe time passing will really help. I don’t want to feel so disengaged and blah about how I spend so much of my day!

        1. Pam Adams*

          Maybe also letting people know that they need to take their frustrations elsewhere/fight their own battles- you don’t have the bandwidth right now.

  32. Riley*

    Bottom line up front: The last person to hold my job won’t let go of it. I’m looking for advice on how to encourage everyone involved to start insisting that she let me do the job I was hired for.

    I am a chemist. I was recently hired from the outside into a lead position. I am not a supervisor; I am a lead for a project. My group has a number of different projects, and each project has a lead. The leads like myself and the individual contributors all report to the same manager. So it’s sort of flat but with senior positions within the group.
    This position opened up when the lead, call them Pat, moved into a more strategy oriented position within the department. They no longer report to my supervisor, who I’ll call Marion.
    Neither I nor anyone else wants Pat to just stop doing the lead responsibilities overnight and dump it all in my lap. However, they are not letting go of *any* lead responsibilities, to the point that when I brought up in the team meeting that I was going to be discussing with Marion how the handover was going to work, Pat went to Marion to say that she wasn’t ready to hand it over yet.
    Now, Pat took their new role at least six months ago. My interview, which included Pat, was like three months ago. They has known that this is coming. Marion and their supervisor are both repeatedly telling me that they are glad that I am here because this role really needed to be filled. So this is not some kind of All About Eve situation where I am a new upstart trying to push out an established person. My management chain wanted the role to be filled, and I am the person who was hired to fill it. I would like to do the job that I was hired to do. Pat wants me to be an individual contributor for a while, and I am not interested in that. I very specifically took this job because of the project leadership opportunity.
    The former person not letting go of their role is very very common, and I have seen letters about it here. The twist is that due to her strategic position, it is vitally important that we, meaning the team, the group, the department, and especially I, maintain a good relationship with Pat. So I have to handle them with kid gloves.
    I am looking for advice on how to really get Marion to see that they needs to be putting a plan in place for Pat to start handing over responsibilities to me because I took this job with the assumption that it would be a lead position. My vision is some kind of phased transition over 3 to 6 months, starting with day-to-day responsibilities. Pat and I would work very closely for 1 to 3 months and gradually phase out to interacting only during team meetings and sporadically as needed. Marion is the one with the authority, which is why I’m going to be looking to them to do the heavy lifting of insisting on some kind of transition plan. I have a feeling I am going to have to basically be some kind of transition plan Cyrano for them, however.
    Any advice on talking to Marion to get them on board, and on some ways for Marion (And eventually me) to talk to Pat and is appreciated!

    1. Lady Lessa*

      No answers, just sympathy, since I was in a similar position. 3 month overlap, but my predecessor didn’t bother to help me in the chemistries that I didn’t know.

      Good luck, and hope that the company knows how to onboard newcomers. (That was another major issue also)

    2. Can everyone win?*

      Your Cyrano analogy sounds spot on. You may have to create a step by step plan with dates & specific duties to give Marion. Let her present it to Pat as her own plan, which will help her feel like a win. With you ghost writing it in the background (& tweaking as time goes on), it could be a win for Pat & you.

      1. Riley*

        That’s the idea! But first I have to convince Marion that it’s a good and necessary idea. That’s where I need help.

        To give a little more detail, when I have tried to raise getting statuses and strategy for each individual contributor, Pat deflects to bringing me up to speed on the science. I have told both Pat and Marion that I have a good high level understanding of the science, and I would like to learn the nuances from the ICs in parallel with taking over the lead position. This has not been a successful strategy for me. I need some new ideas.

        1. Can everyone win?*

          Ah. That IS a big pain when no one can insist Pat does the handover without upsetting Pat. I have sympathies along with Lady Lesa and await the AAM community wisdom.

    3. Synaptically Unique*

      I’m Marion in this scenario and I’m still supervising Pat in the new role. I’ve had to be extremely blunt with Pat about letting go of former duties. It’s helped that the new role absolutely needs full-time effort and I’ve leaned into that interpretation, but reality is that this is far from the only reason I need Pat to step back.
      Since Marion is not Pat’s supervisor any longer, she will need to coordinate with Pat’s manager. It needs to be emphasized that her current role is full time and she can’t effectively do two jobs at the same time. Something is not being handled at the level expected AND since it’s a different supervisor, likely her new salary is coming out of a different bucket. That’s its own complication and causes problems and resentment along the way.
      Whether this will land well with Pat is beside the point if she’s not doing the full job she’s being paid to do because she’s too busy controlling her old job. This is all a management problem to fix. Good luck.

      1. Riley*

        Nothing you say is wrong! Unfortunately, management doesn’t seem like they are too dedicated to acting. Hence my request for help communicating to them.

  33. Bookworm*

    I was two days for something medical recently. When I came back, I found that ALL my self-supplied office supplies were missing. Pens, highlighters, the really nice bigger Postage-Its, white out correction tape pens. I was furious. Turns out a new employee in another department didn’t like the office supplied stuff (which is why I buy my own) and went surfing the empty cubes to find supplies left over from other people.

    Why he thought my supplies were for the taking, I have no clue. They were all in a drawer and my desk was clearly not unoccupied. Files on desk, calendar showing current date, etc.

    I raised holy hell. I was the only one in the office who used those pens so it was easy enough to find them, plus my bright colored Post-Its were all over his monitors. Small company, and everyone aware of what I used. Why no one questioned him, I don’t know. I took my stuff back while his manager watched. I told him I was not happy with my stuff to be stolen. I was pissed, but polite aka no profanity. His manager talked to him, but he’s still there. I’m told he does his work competently, which may be why they kept him. That position was open for a long time. He steers clear of me.

    1. Having a Scrummy Week*

      Why would he be fired for taking office supplies from a colleague’s desk, if his work is fine otherwise? In many office cultures, it’s a free-for-all, so most likely he thought it was the same in your workplace. I understand your frustration, but the stern talking-t0 from his manager and re-establishment of boundaries seems like an appropriate solution.

      1. Bookworm*

        He took my PERSONAL supplies, not ones the office supplied. I’ve been other places where people who did the same were fired. I’m not quite sure what I was expecting to happen to him.

        1. Michelle Smith*

          Were they labeled as personal supplies? I’m just not convinced by what you’ve said that he knew they were purchased with your own money.

          1. Bookworm*

            Yes, they all were labeled with my initials on the boxes of pens/highlighters/white out tape and on plastic packages of Post-Its. He took it all from my drawer. The labeled boxes/packages were in his desk. He just didn’t take one of each, he took two boxes of pens, one box of highlighters, two boxes of white out tape pens, and two packages of Post-Its.

            The rest of the office uses cheapy stick pens, standard yellow one size post it notes, yellow only highlighters, and a store brand of white out pens.

            1. Tio*

              It’s rude of him to take these things when they’re different, and he deserved the talking to, but just putting your initial on supplies doesn’t necessarily scream to me “spent my own personal money” and I’m pretty seasoned. For a single one time offense he has received an appropriate punishment, and if anything has been used up your boss or his can probably replace it for you if you push. But you need to take some deep breaths before you ask, because as others have said this is a REALLY outsized reaction to the situation.

              1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

                The guy went into her desk drawer. Most people respect each other’s privacy better than that.

        2. Bast*

          If the employee is new, they likely didn’t know the supplies were your own. I get being annoyed by this, but I wouldn’t hold it against him. If anything, I’d be more annoyed that the TEAM didn’t say anything. “Hey, those are Bookworm’s personal supplies; they weren’t supplied by the company.” Why would you expect a new person to just know this if no one said anything?

        3. Dust Bunny*

          I think sorta-expecting him to be fired for a so-far one-time taking of office supplies is a bit much. If he had stolen your purse or something that was clearly personal, yeah, I’d expect him to be fired. Also, you say he was a new employee in a different department, so are you sure he was clear on how personal they were?

        4. Paint N Drip*

          It seems like you view it as stealing (on the surface, a correct assumption) but a new employee likely doesn’t know what the normal supplies are; seems like an honest mistake but that’s personally not something I think someone should be fired over.

        5. Charlotte Lucas*

          I don’t think it’s a fireable offense, but I do agree that it’s pretty sketchy to go through someone else’s desk drawers without a valid work reason. And then take stuff! Even if those hadn’t been personal supplies, you still don’t scavenge from desks people are actively using (even if they aren’t physically present at the moment).

          He should have just asked how he could also get better supplies.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Yes, this. When I was on the front desk at OldExjob, people would steal my pens and borrow my stapler all the time. It really bugged me. I’m kinda surprised that everyone seems to be glossing over the fact that he went into someone else’s desk. I would NEVER do this unless someone told me to my face to get something from their drawer.

            It sounds like they don’t intend to fire him for it and the manager did handle it. I think that’s the best you can expect, Bookworm. I’m sorry this happened.

            1. Lurker*

              I don’t disagree, BUT at the end of the day, it’s not your/Bookworm’s desk – it’s company property.

              1. Charlotte Lucas*

                But your property could be in the drawers, or confidential information.

                Legal and ethical and polite are not exact equivalents.

                1. Tio*

                  Nothing in an unlocked desk drawer is confidential. Or locked, even. If you are out, your boss has every right to go through those drawers to look for something. It would be rude of them to go through your medical files without reason, for example, if you left them in there, but rude is not necessarily a firing offense. And what this person did is not anything remotely as bad as this.

                2. Charlotte Lucas*

                  A. This wasn’t a boss. It was a coworker from a different team/area.

                  B. I never agreed about firing.

                3. Pescadero*

                  Your property could be in the drawers, or confidential information – and your employer could open it, and look at any of that, any time they want.

            2. OfficeWars*

              That’s great, but at most offices I’ve been in office supplies are considered fair game, as are unlocked desk drawers.

              If I needed something that appeared to be out of stock in the central suppliers location I’d go looking for it around the office before I asked someone to buy it for me.

              Initials on a box would not make me think they’re private property. I’d need a note on top of the drawer or similar if it wasn’t locked up.

              That’s just been normal operating procedure at dozens of offices.

              Sorry, but to me you’re seriously overreacting.

              1. Charlotte Lucas*

                Maybe it depends on the size of the office, availability of supplies (I know exactly how to request what I need), and type of industry?

              2. Elizabeth West*

                Although making this a terminable offense would be an overreaction, I think it’s rude and clueless. I would at least ask people if they had a spare X before I’d rummage in their drawer.

              3. Rainy*

                Okay; every office I’ve been in, we knew what was general office supplies and what wasn’t, and if it wasn’t the brand and color of pen or sticky note that the office supplied, it was someone’s personal stock, and you left it alone.

                And I have never worked anywhere where desk drawers were fair game. Desk tops, *maybe*, but never drawers.

                1. I Have RBF*

                  Seriously. I used to get very angry when at one place people going to meetings in a nearby conference room would not only steal pens and note pads from the top of my desk, but if I was out, they (from other departments) would rummage through my desk like they thought it was a f’ing supply cabinet!!

                  After they took some nice personal pens, I literally started locking my desk whenever I was away from it. It was a PITA, but it beat having my desk ransacked every damn day by people in meeting who were too lazy to bring their own pens or walk to the office supply cabinet.

                  I would literally leave a cup of those cheap stick pens out on my desk. They would still ransack my drawers looking for better.

                  I am glad I work remotely now so I don’t have to deal with arrogant thieves.

          2. WellRed*

            Agreed. He went into your desk drawer FFS. I don’t think this is a firing offense but I’m surprised at the comments thinking this is ok. It’s not ok to take your lunch or your personal supplies.

          3. Random Bystander*

            Exactly! I haven’t been in-office for years, but when I was, we had a cabinet in a room (supply plus the giant printer that could also collate was in there) which had designated drawers for all the sorts of supplies that were supplied by the office and shelves for the paper goods. Going into the room to grab whatever supplies you needed–fine. Grabbing supplies from someone’s desk was never ok.

          4. The Docs Doc*

            Thank you – I don’t know what kind of places other people work at, but at every office I’ve worked so far, taking things from people’s desks was a big no-no, let alone going through drawers to take things (!!!). Taking candy from a bowl, borrowing a stapler, taking one or two post-its, sure, but anything beyond that feels really intrusive and unprofessional. The only exception would be things from an obviously unoccupied desk, but even then, the polite thing is to double-check with other people sitting nearby. I would be upset if someone took things from my drawers without asking, and I’m glad you got your stuff back, Bookworm.

            That said, I agree that this isn’t a fireable offence. Bad judgement, unprofessional behaviour, sure – but ultimately, if he’s a competent worker, it’s not likely that he will get fired over taking someone else’s office supplies.

        6. Hyaline*

          Like–right, they’re yours and you have every right to ask for them back, but unless you’re in his head or he actively announced “I do not like the supplies in the closet, I’m going to steal from my coworkers” you don’t know that he was attempting to steal personal property. He may have thought it was communal stuff and while it’s weird to take it from someone else’s desk, I can’t in a million years imagine firing someone for that and only that.

          1. Blue Pen*

            Agreed. I also think if there were true malicious intent here, he would’ve actually *taken* them and brought them home. “Stealing” gets a little fuzzy if he’s using them in plain sight at the office, which leads me to think he thought the LW was permanently gone or those supplies were considered communal.

            That said, I don’t love the idea of him digging through someone’s desk space to get at them. That’s not lost on me. But if he really thought the LW was gone, I can easily see a pilfering happening; that was a totally normal occurrence at my last job, and no one batted an eye when it happened.

    2. Cordelia*

      you expected him to be fired for taking your post-its?? You took your stuff back, you told him you were not happy with his behaviour, his manager has also addressed it with him. That should be end of story, let it go.

    3. WorkerDrone*

      It sounds like this was likely a mistaken belief they were supplied by the office – it’s annoying and kind of rude to raid a co-worker’s desk for office-supplied supplies but also nowhere near a fireable offense. I think assuming this was a malicious “I know these were personally bought by someone else but I am going to steal them anyways” is a little much (unless you know for a fact – as in, he has actively admitted knowing they were your personal belongings). It’s more likely it was, “Oh, this desk no one is at has the good stuff, I’ll grab that.”

      To me, this was handled completely appropriately (you got your stuff back and he was spoken to). I can’t imagine why you would have wanted or expected him fired for it. If anything, I think “raising holy hell” was over the top.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      Yeah, I can see why you were ticked off. I would be too. But “raising holy hell” and expecting this person to actually be fired is a huge overreaction.

      1. Overreacting*

        Honestly, if you reacted like this in anything but the private depths of your inner dialogue, I’d think you were deranged.

    5. Daphne*

      Weird how you described how your personal supplies were different from the bog standard office supplies, but a bunch of people still think he couldn’t tell they were different.
      Sounds like it was a first offense, and it was office supplies rather than a wallet or similar. I’m not super surprised he was kept on rather than fired.

    6. StressedButOkay*

      Back when I was not fully remote, I would label some of the office supplied stuff that I used at my desk with my initials (stapler, mostly, that thing always walked off). So I wouldn’t necessarily, especially as a new person, have known that those were supplies not bought by the office – heck, even the nicer things are sometimes supplied by the office.

      I get being upset that someone went through your desk when you were out for something medical – that’s super stressful by itself. Maybe this was the straw that broke the camel’s back after being away but it sounds like you need to take a bit of a step back and not look at this like he deliberately stole from you.

      1. Bookworm*

        Thanks for the different look at it. The medical stuff could have been something very serious, but thankfully wasn’t. Coming back and not having a single pen or Post-It at my desk to use was probably the last straw after the medical stuff. Where I’ve worked in the past, rummaging through a coworker’s desk and taking *anything* was a fireable offense. I’ve scavenged through clearly unoccupied desks myself at other jobs for supplies. But going into someone’s drawers at an occupied desk? That’s very much a no-go.

        1. Bitte Meddler*

          I’ve worked at places where going through someone else’s desk maybe wouldn’t get you *fired* but… you’d have to do everything perfectly for months and months afterward.

          And I’ve worked at places where having your initials on something didn’t mean diddly. People would just assume you were laying claim to company-purchased items. At those places, I had to write on my items in permanent marker “Personal Property of Bitte Meddler”.

          New Guy could have come from the 2nd kind of place and is now super embarrassed for getting it wrong. [He could also be the type who simply feels entitled to other people’s stuff, but I’d opt for the more generous interpretation unless he does something like this again).

      2. Bast*

        The office manager at my old job would comply with the requests as long as they weren’t too ridiculous and didn’t cost a lot. We were a small office, so this likely played into their willingness to accommodate requests. Most people didn’t really care because a stapler was a stapler, etc, however, we had one person who requested pink supplies when they were ordered. She had a pink stapler, pink staple remover, pink sticky notes, pink highlighters, a pink mouse, etc. For the most part, we left her stuff alone, because there was the acknowledgement that the pink stuff was bought for that specific team member, and if we wanted something different, we just had to ask. That being said, if, for whatever reason, we ran out of sticky notes before the next order came in, and the pink stickies were all that was left, well, pink stickies it was, because at the end of the day, those were company supplies. When said team member left our office, the supplies stayed in the office, because they were the property of the company, not team member. I realize that this differs from the OP post in that OP’s supplies actually were their own, but my point is exactly yours — that it wasn’t necessarily obvious to this person.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Haha, I cured the stapler borrowing at my desk this way. They ALWAYS walked off with it right before I needed it, and since it looked like everyone else’s stapler, I could never find it again. And no one would admit they took it.

          So I ordered a gross, shrimp-pink XACTO stapler and put a sticker on it with a picture of Milton from Office Space and the word “Mine!” Everyone left it alone after that. (Of course I left it when I got laid off.)

    7. OfficeOwnership*

      It’s not your desk, it’s the company’s desk. I felt violated the first time I came into an office and found the company gave my desk to someone else to use after clearing out all of my personal stuff including my locked drawer withp medication, medical supplies, and paperwork related to hiring/getting paid like my copy of timesheets and the employment agreement. I don’t actually know that everything in my drawers made it into the bag they gave me (the medication and paperwork did). They had decided only folks working 5 days a week in the office should have permanent assigned desks; everyone else would hot desk (this was pre-pandemic in a mixed onsite/hybrid environment). It’s their office and they had the right to do it.

      You have to accept that anything you keep at the office could potentially be seen or used by someone else. Presumably stuff in a locked drawer would only be accessed in cases like the one I mention above, but it’s not your space and any stuff you bring into it may be handled in ways you don’t like without it being a crime.

      1. Daphne*

        Yes, the desk belongs to the company, and employees acting on behalf of the company have a right to go through the desk and its contents for company purposes.
        Employees acting on behalf of themselves do not have the right to rifle through another employee’s desk or belongings.

    8. BellaStella*

      Can you lock your supplies up in a cabinet under your desk? This is how my office works.

    9. Valine*

      Are you OK? This is a really big reaction to have to something that is annoying but ultimately not that important. You got your stuff back, he got told off, it’s handled. But you were expecting him to get fired for this?! You “raised holy hell” instead of just going to talk to him, pointing out his mistake, and asking for your stuff back. Your idea of polite is that you didn’t use profanity? That’s WILD to me. If I worked there, my sympathy would be with the new guy who made an understandable if unfortunate mistake and got reamed out by an irrationally over-reacting colleague. And he would not be the only one steering clear of you!

      I suspect there is something deeper and more concerning going on with you that you don’t feel in control of – how’s your health situation after those two days? – and you are lashing out at this guy in response because it’s easier, more manageable etc. You might want to get some help if this rings any bells for you. You deserve to be able to handle things better than this, and your colleagues deserve that too.

    10. Unkempt Flatware*

      Whoa! This is a very disproportionate reaction to the event. It is absolutely wrong of him that he went through your desk and took things as his own. It is absolutely wrong of you to want him fired for it this event.

    11. Eleanor*

      Sorry, but you need to relax a little about this. I do not think he knew he was stealing and he’s been reprimanded. If he takes your stuff again, you can get ticked, but this sounds like an innocent mistake that you are blowing way out of proportion. Wanting someone to get fired over some pens and post-it notes is… kind of a lot.

    12. RussianInTexas*

      As others mentioned, I think this is a pretty huge overreaction. He did not know, he got corrected, you got your stuff back. It’s done and over.
      As to your “why no one questioned him” – this is a seriously unrealistic expectation. You really expect your coworkers to remember what color post-its and pens you use and then also notice that another coworker uses the same color, and somehow figure out he took them from your desk? This is not ever going to happen.
      If he took something like a piece of art or a figurine of Darth Vader or something – maybe. Post-its? Not in a million years.

    13. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

      If I came back to work to find out not just some, but all of my personal supplies were missing, especially if someone else clearly knew they were mine, I would be extremely pissed and possibly feel violated, too. As you mentioned in another comment, I’ve also worked somewhere that this would have been considered stealing and possibly fireable, but just one, and it had enough red flags to make a pennant banner around the whole building. Most places don’t. I’m surprised by how many of the comments are dismissive of your feelings (regardless of what someone else thinks is the correct response, your feelings are still your feelings), but the outcome of the situation is what I would expect to happen at most workplaces.

  34. Mystic*

    I have a question between managing correctly and micromanaging, because I’m beginning to fail at my job, since I have to fit 40+ hrs is supervisor work into 40hrs. one of my reports is struggling to do his job. I send a daily list of stuff to do, and then they’re more or less supposed to do it by themselves, but always asking questions (he was trained 12+ weeks and should be able to finish everything on his list with no problems.) he can’t do it, but I can’t tell if I’m just following up or micromanaging (ex, by 10:30am, he should be done with a quarter of his list, as it takes at most 5m per case), and he has to send me a list, just stating if he’s done then, and if he hasn’t been able to do it, I call and ask why, and then have to direct him to start the next section, then by about 1pm he should have another quarter of the list done (this is easy, at his stage, it should take no longer than 30m per item) and hes not there. I Don’t know i need to keep following up or does that tip it too far?

    1. TCO*

      I think you need to consider terminating this employee. That level of hand-holding is way over the top. If that’s what he needs, then he’s not capable of doing this job.

    2. Cordelia*

      I don’t think following up in this way is helpful really. Is the problem that he is slacking off and thats why he’s not getting the work done quickly enough? In which case he needs to work harder, but you can just set the expectation that he has done X items by the end of the day, and do this for a week. If not done, fire him. You’re both wasting time with this checking in throughout the day.
      It sounds more like that he doesn’t have the skills to the job, in which case just pushing him to work faster isn’t going to help. What is he asking questions about, what is he getting stuck on? You need to clarify this, and then decide if more training is worth the investment, or if he is just not going to be able to do it.

    3. ArtK*

      Have you laid out the problem directly? “Fergus, I’ve given you a list of tasks that I expect you to complete in a day; frequently you don’t get them all done. It’s important that all of these be completed on time. What can we do to make sure that you get everything done?”

      I agree that checking in every few hours is micromanaging and it’s not going to solve the problem. You need to find out what the underlying problem is: Bad time management? Lack of understanding? Lack of resources? You also need to make sure that your expectations are truly achievable. Do you have other employees who can get through the list with ease?

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I agree. It sounds also like he’s kind of new, given the “he was trained 12+ weeks” comment, although I do admit I could be wrong about that. And if he is pretty new and still isn’t performing the way other employees do after all the training, that might be a sign that he isn’t the right person for the job and you need to terminate him. But before you do that, be directly, like ArtK suggests and tell him what you need from him and ask him if he still needs more training or some other kind of support. It’s possible that he’s just a slower learner than other employees have been and with more training he could catch up and be fabulous, or that he needs something specific to be able to do his job better and was afraid to ask.

        That said, I am leaning towards the “he’s probably not the right person for the job” possibility here. Which is too bad, but it’s better to know that now and part ways with him rather than trying to micromanage him for a year and then have to part ways with him anyway.

        1. Tio*

          Falling on this too. Be really clear about this, and ask specific questions. How long do you spend on each task? What task takes you the longest? Break down a full day of your workflow to me. If he can’t account for all his time, that’s a sign he’s not using it right. If he can but everything is taking him too long, that’s a sign he’s not performing the tasks well. If it’s just one or two tasks, shadow those tasks and see why he seems to be going slower than you expect. Is he not following the right processes? Is he making mistakes he has to correct? Drill down into that.

          That said – he might just not be good at this, and you’ll have to decide to let him go. Have a clear timeline and communicate it for improvement and let him know his job is on the line.

    4. Double A*

      It sounds like you have him on a PIP without having him on a PIP. Yes, this kind of follow up is micromanaging if it’s indefinite. If it’s part of a specific timeline where the employee either improves or is fired, then it’s not too much. It’s supportive towards a specific goal and also time limited, then it’s useful.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      You need to tackle the pattern, rather than “tactically” trying to keep him on track with half the work done by lunchtime etc. Sounds like it is time for a PIP, though if he’s only been there for 12 weeks, it might make more sense to go straight to termination. When you call and ask why he hasn’t completed the thing, what kind of answer does he give?

    6. Aerin*

      Checking in throughout the day is too much. As an employee that would stress me out a lot, especially because my energy and focus ebbs and flows throughout the day and I tend to be able to work better in the afternoons. So not being able to have things done in the morning specifically doesn’t mean I won’t catch up by the end of the day.

      I think a daily list of tasks is fine. It would also be worth a big picture conversation to see if there are particular places where he’s struggling and if there are any other resources to support him, like maybe coworkers who might be able to give some tips.

    7. TheBunny*

      Egads. You’re micromanaging. Stop it.

      You sent the list. He’s got the day to do it. Done.

      If it’s not done, it’s a performance issue. But if I had a boss who gave me a list of things to do and then kept following up to make sure I was where they thought I should be? I’d be job hunting.

      I’d also be so annoyed working for this manager that my performance would suffer. It might be just as much you as it is the employee.

      Give him the list. Let him perform or not.

  35. A way to set notification for "Outlook meeting ENDS in x minutes"?*

    It appears that Outlook calendar doesn’t have a feature to notify the user when a meeting is soon to end. I host meetings that don’t end on the hour or half-hour but rather at 25 minutes, 50 minutes, etc. During a busy day I could use a notification to help me keep track of the wrap-up time. Has anyone figured out a workaround for managing this, either within Outlook or otherwise?

    1. noname today*

      I think it’s only in teams meetings that has that feature—I see it many many times a day :)

        1. OP*

          Interesting! I didn’t know Teams and Zoom have that feature. (We don’t currently use Teams; we do use an Outlook calendar Zoom integration, I wonder if the Zoom “meeting ends” notification applies to that add-on?) Thanks!

    2. Hlao-roo*

      You can create an appointment in Outlook that is 0 min long* (ex. Start time at 10:25am, end time at 10:25am) and then set the reminder to 5/10/15min (whatever chunk of time works best for you). That way you’ll get the same Outlook pop-up notification you do for the start of the meeting, but 5/10/15min before the end of the meeting.

      If 0 min exactly doesn’t work, make the appointment 1 min long (10:25-10:26). You can also set the appointment to “free” so other people won’t see you as “busy” for that 1 min.

      1. OP*

        Ooo, I only recently became aware of the zero-minute Outlook meeting option and can see how this might work. Many thanks!

    3. Lee the SQL*

      Our team realized that scheduling our meetings to end at 5 or 10 minutes to the hour was not working they kept running over. So we switched our default to starting them at 5 or 10 minutes after the hour or half hour, and it has been much more successful.

      Otherwise the reminder in Outlook would work, although I don’t know how to automate it so you don’t have to manually create it for each meeting.

      1. OP*

        Oh, I love this idea and see several benefits! Especially if the whole team implements it, which would help with the mental load of nontraditional start times.

        Of course, we collaborate heavily with folks who don’t shorten their meetings, so attendees of my meetings will always face a lack of transition buffer either in arrival or departure, unless I either petition for an org-wide meeting shortening policy or else shorten my own meetings at both ends!

        I’m not familiar with Outlook reminders but will have to investigate their benefits and drawbacks compared to Hla-roo’s idea of creating zero-minute events. E.g., it would be great to be able to make a reminder (or an event with notification) recur to match my recurring meetings, and having it visible to me right on my calendar (as with a zero-minute event) would make it easy to move the reminder/notifier event if a meeting needs to be rescheduled.

  36. Ellis Bell*

    UK educator with a question about the American education system, here. So, usually I know better than to believe fictional depictions of any profession because the writers usually think: “There’ll be no cops/nurses/teachers watching, and if they are, they will be shushed by any civilians in the room, so … we can just make it up!”. However the school drama I’m watching at the moment implies a situation that anyone who had gone to an American high school would know about and whether it’s true or not. This has made me wonder! So, I’m currently watching English Teacher, which is set in Texas and the most recent episode involves the teacher giving the entire class a failing mark because they all handed in completely terrible essays. This is described as “brave” because it’s going to affect their college applications and apparently the parents are going to be up in arms and will blame the teacher. So my questions are as follows: 1) Do colleges really accept grades that come from the kid’s own teachers instead of from external bodies, like exams? My understanding was that the SATs were the formal exams for college applications. and 2) Are teachers really personally on the hook for whether kids get into college or not? (I suspect this is the bit where it gets super fictional). To be fair, during COVID, we had to give the graduating students their final high school grades ourselves because holding exams was impossible. But because the risk of being biased towards our own students was so great, we anonymised the papers and distributed them to other teachers in the school. Even predicted grades have to be given through a whole school system, not some particular teachers whim (but this system is not perfect). How off base is this TV show?

    1. Watry*

      College applications are usually a mishmash of SAT or ACT scores, grade point average (the average of their grade from every class, which are given by the teacher), extracurriculars, and sometimes an entrance essay. Specific programs may focus more on grades from particular subject areas, and grades for any particular class are given by the teacher.

      As for question 2: legally or morally? No. But parents do sometimes get upset if a teacher gives a grade the parent feels the kid doesn’t deserve or will hurt their college chances.

    2. Dust Bunny*

      With the caveat that I graduated in the mid-1990s so my familiarity with high schools and college applications is a bit outdated:

      1) Yes, when I was in school, grade-point average was a consideration for college admission, though it was certainly not the only consideration. SAT scores probably counted for more. But one essay shouldn’t tank you unless maybe it was the final exam (in which case everyone shouldn’t have done so poorly because presumably this teacher has been in charge of their education all year). However, some schools weight honors classes more than regular ones to pad GPA, and my college recalculated those so that all levels of classes were on the same scale.

      2) No. But entitled parents and kids will blame them. I did have a few teachers who gave final exams that I think were well above the level of difficulty they had given us in classwork, but it wasn’t going to fail the whole class.

      Honestly, there is a lot of stuff shown in high school movies that doesn’t look at all like my high school experience. Schools in movies always seem to be smaller and viciously cliquish, and mine was big enough that most of us were pretty anonymous and were left alone.

    3. Spacewoman Spiff*

      Oh, this is a fun question!

      1) Well, colleges would be looking at the students’ GPAs, so indirectly they’re basing their decisions on the grades assigned by teachers? The turnaround wouldn’t be immediate, obviously…I vaguely remember having to submit my final HS records after being admitted to my university, because they could have rescinded the offer if my grades had taken a nosedive.

      2) No, I don’t think teachers are on the hook in any way on whether students get into colleges, but the parents sure might act like they are. I’ve never heard of a school doing an anonymized school-wide grading approach! In the US, individual teachers are grading the work for their specific classes. So the reaction of the parents is probably accurate here.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        People were kind of terrified, and so relieved, by the anonymous marking idea, because usually the exam board decides entirely who passes/fails exams and the government basically said “you’re it” to teachers. In some cases these are kids we’ve taught for five years, so we really wouldn’t have been unbiased. It’s completely different when you’re just marking your class’s work to give them feedback or to assess their knowledge. In those cases it’s better that the class teacher handles it because it’s part of ongoing teaching.

    4. Miss Fisher*

      So yes and no. You take the SAT as part of the application process, but colleges also look at your overall Grade Point Average. They do get high school transcripts that show the grades they receive in each class, but that is an overall average from report cards and not necessarily from 1 school assignment. I will add this takes place in Texas where high school football is really big. If you fail classes and your GPA drops, you cannot play ball. This is a very big deal since the scouts from colleges come to games to watch players play in order to get sports scholarships, so the mom yelling at him about football was also accurate.

      I will also add, the SAT here isn’t like the (forgive the Harry Potter analogy, because I don’t remember the actual real life term) OWLS.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        The real life term for OWLs? That would be GCSEs which are sat at 16 and which determine whether you “stay on” at school and what courses you can do at A Level. A Level (advanced GCSEs) are the exams which get you into university and are the real life term for NEWTS.

        1. JustaTech*

          As a few side notes: both the SAT and the ACT are tests made and given by outside company (not part of the government education system) and you have to pay to take the exam, and you have to pay to send the scores to whatever colleges you apply to.

          Then there are the AP exams (Advanced Placement) which are separate subject specific exams (Calculus, or US History, or English) that *also* cost money that sometimes can be used to get you out of introductory college courses, if you get a high enough score. Students who want to take those exams (usually) need to take “AP level” courses, which are much harder than regular high school classes.

          Also, the SAT (and maybe the ACT) is offered to much younger students (middle school) as a way of testing into gifted programs or things like “smart camp” (to use our childish name for it).

    5. Ama*

      No that’s pretty accurate – there are state wide exams to graduate high school in a lot of places but colleges don’t use those scores during the admissions process (a lot of times you don’t take those exams until well after the college application deadline). And many colleges don’t require SAT scores now because of known biases in standardized testing. Colleges mostly use transcripts, which have the grades you were given by the teacher of each individual class.

      That said I would be curious for the context of this fictional teacher failing the entire class due to *one* bad essay – generally you would have enough graded assignments and/or tests that everything would average out and one failure wouldn’t tank your final grade. (Also maybe I just had more reasonable teachers but most of the ones I had in high school would have allowed students to rewrite the essay within a certain time frame.) That’s the part that feels exaggerated for Hollywood to me.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Oh for sure it was exaggerated. I suspected it was technically true (because too many people would have been able to call bullshit on it) but logistically no teacher would put up long term with the kind of parental hell this teacher did. And all teachers put up with a fair amount from parents…

    6. Glazed Donut*

      I haven’t watched the show (it’s on my list!) but to answer your questions: 1) colleges ask for both external tests (the SATs, ACT, AP exams) and the student’s GPA, which is made from teachers’ class grades (ex: biology grade from 9th grade, 10th grade algebra, etc). 2) likely an individual teacher is not…but in many schools, there’s a groupwide effort to promote college-going rates amongst the whole high school through college recruitment fairs, teachers talking about their own college experiences, banners/pennants from colleges, etc. No one is going to say, “Mr. Smith, you are the reason Johnny didn’t get into college” if that’s what you’re asking. I guess if Mr. Smith taught a must-pass class for graduation, and Johnny failed it, there could be an argument there, but in my experience those situations are a multiple-attempts moment, not a one-and-done.

    7. Texan in exile on her phone*

      A friend is an English teacher at an expensive private school in Silicon Valley and yes she is absolutely pressured to give her students the grades they need to get into an Ivy. Parent attitudes are that they are paying tens of thousands of dollars dor this school and it better be worth it.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        Honestly, I got a lot of that just teaching in a state school, but where the parents were really well off. They seemed to think it was my job to carry the students, and any slacking was my fault. I would not have enjoyed a situation where I was marking their final grades for university applications.

        1. Irish Teacher.*

          Yeah, I once subbed in a school in a very wealthy party of Ireland and was told my first week that there had been a complaint about me. I wasn’t told the details but I can guess from context: I had one 3rd year class (the year we do the Junior Cert. which isn’t quite our equivalent of the G.C.S.E.s because it isn’t counted for anything, but…is as close as we get to an equivalent) and the teacher’s notes were a bit vague. She said they needed to finish a practice paper so I assumed that meant they had a significant amount to do on it and gave them the first class to work on it when she’d really meant they were nearly finished (and they didn’t let me know) so I suspect parents complained that we didn’t get enough covered in the first class I had with that group.

          Now, to be fair, I was covering for the last term, so I guess parents were concerned about students having a sub teacher so close to the exam but this was par for the course. In the interview, the principal warned me that if I got the job, she’d prefer I came to her with any issues that arose, because the parents there would be contacting her.

          And honestly, Ireland is still dealing with the fall-out from predicted grading during the lockdowns. It sounds like ye handled it better than we did. Here, teachers were basically asked to make an educated guess as to what students would get in their exams and…well, any teacher could guess how that went. The grades went through the roof. Not because teachers are deliberately lying but because…well, if you think your student would get somewhere around an A2 or a B1, you’ll probably guess the A2. Certainly, if you think a student should probably scrape a pass if he doesn’t get any questions on the topic he most struggles with, you’ll probably predict a pass. Nobody wants to deny a student a college place based on a guess.

          And of course, if you were to grade normally the following year, well…that’s hardly fair because kids from the previous year could just take a year out and be guaranteed to get places before kids of equal ability the next year, so grades were inflated and…they are now planning to start bringing them down gradually, but…woah! This year 24.2% of students scored a minimum of 500 points. In 2019, it was 13.3%.

          1. Ellis Bell*

            “Nobody wants to deny a student a college place based on a guess”. That’s my actual and literal nightmare. Oh and yes, I also received “complaints”!!! Actually called it a “complaint”, like I was working in a shop . The implication was always “make it go away”. Now that I work in a more deprived area, but one with stronger leadership they’re called “concerns”, as in, talk to the parent so they understand why we made the decision, and consider if there’s something they know that we weren’t aware of, but don’t think you’re not backed up.

    8. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      People are mentioning GPAs, but it’s worth keeping in mind that those are an average of final grades. A failing grade on a single essay shouldn’t cause an entire class to fail. If the teacher said they were going to literally give every student an failing grade based on one essay, even then, it wouldn’t totally tank everyone’s GPA–BUT, there is no world in which a public high school teacher would be allowed to fail an entire class based on one single assignment. Classes have syllabi, which usually lay out how grades are calculated (usually divided into tests/exams, quizzes, homework, classwork, and maybe participation). A teacher can’t decide to just throw that out.
      PLUS, even if they were crazy enough to try, no high school administration would let a teacher fail an entire class. They would override the teacher (and that teacher would probably lose their job at the end of the year/not be offered a contract renewal). If anything, there is major pressure (from admin and parents) on high school teachers to pass everyone, to the point that grade inflation is a legitimate concern.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        So, the failing grade was just for the one paper, not the whole year’s worth of papers. One student did pipe up and say “But this is 24% of our whole grade!” But no idea how likely that would be.

        1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

          I had college courses like that, but never high school. High school was about the tedious grind of daily homework. College was the huge make-or-break testings.

          1. Pescadero*

            Same.

            I had college engineering classes where the grade was 40% midterm exam, 60% final exam – and no other grades considered at all.

          2. Enough*

            Actually depending on the paper requirements, like amount of research, length, topic it could be 25%.

        2. Not Totally Subclinical*

          24% of the whole grade for the grading period, I can maybe see. When I was a junior in high school back in the Paleozoic, we had a term paper that was a large percentage of our grade in one six-weeks grading period. But there were six of those grading periods in the school year, meaning that you could’ve skipped the paper entirely and still made a B for the year.

          Out of context, I’d see that as a sign that the student is bad at arithmetic.

        4. Catherine*

          I had a teacher in high school who gave the whole class a failing grade for one assignment because so many of the class performed poorly. Those of us who hadn’t wound up resenting him for the rest of the year.

    9. a Texan who watches britcoms*

      To follow up on some other commenters, the US doesn’t have a formal external exam system like A or O levels. The SAT assesses a basic level of reading comprehension, logic, vocabulary and arithmetic/geometry skills (although honestly mostly just standardized test taking). There are some courses that are kind of like A/O levels: AP courses, IB courses. These have exams that you sit at the end of the year to assess knowledge in the specific domain. But they’re not explicitly required, though for top schools they’re probably de facto required.

      GPA is also a relatively easy screening tool for schools that receive too many applicants (most schools). So a bad GPA can result in an automatic rejection.

      As an added Texas specific issue, the state system grants the top x% (I think it’s 10%) of students by GPA automatic admission to state schools, so there is an incentive to get good grades. There can also be scholarships tied to GPA (not just for sports).

      1. Ellis Bell*

        This is interesting. I had sort of gleaned some of this from fiction when people are cramming for the SAT: “Huh, it kind of sounds like they’re revising vocabulary and general knowledge” and I always sort of wondered where the subject specific knowledge tests came in, so you’ve answered an ongoing wonder there!

        1. cosmicgorilla*

          Yeah, you can’t really cram for the SAT.

          What you can do is practice the test-taking format, get used to that. As an example, when I took the GRE (standardized test for getting into most grad schools, not applicable to business/medical/law schools), the math questions required you to answer if formula a was greater than, less than, or same as formula b, or if there wasn’t enough information to decide.

          We weren’t required to give the actual answers to the formula, and oftentimes, you could determine the greater than/less than without solving the formula. Practicing the test format beforehand allows you to get used to that and also practice some tips and tricks.

          Another reason GPA is factored in is because not everyone is good at standardized tests, and solely relying on SAT’s can cut out some otherwise excellent students.

        2. Parakeet*

          There are specific subject tests – the SAT IIs – but they are much less common and most universities don’t require them. Those that do usually only require a small number (it has been a really long time, but I think I took either two or three).

    10. RagingADHD*

      GPA is also considered for some merit-based college scholarships, so a heavily-weighted assignment that tanked a student’s semester grade could possibly impact their ability to attend, beyond admissions.

      As a parent of a student who has always earned good grades fair and square, I would be pretty averse to believing that every single student’s work was uniformly so terrible that they all deserved an F on a subjectively graded assignment, and prone to suspect that the teacher was just throwing a tantrum. So yeah, I would want to see the rubric, see when and how the standards were actually taught, and hear a very detailed explanation of why my student’s work did not meet the rubric.

      It makes for a dramatic moment, but “You are all just terrible” is not a viable grading standard, at least in my state.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        I have taught classes where few, if any, are likely to pass an exam though, sometimes because the school streams (and often makes the class with the students with lowest ability smaller than the others, in order to give those kids extra help, so out of a class of 100 you might have 5 classes with 25, 24, 24, 17 and 10) and well, from correcting the state exams, about 10% of the population in general does fail, so if a class is organised to take the 10% who struggle most with the subject, it wouldn’t be unexpected.

        Then there is the intake of schools. Our school has a very large SEN department, so we tend to get a lot of students with complex needs. And we had one particular year group that were especially weak – I think covid may have played a part – and where only 2 or 3 students were reading at grade level. Even some of the students who were among the brightest in the year were two or three years behind average. This was from the time they came into the school and they came from three or four different primary schools, so definitely not due to any specific teacher.

        I could easily imagine that if say the two or three brightest students in that year (who were average for their age) chose French as their foreign language, then we might have the entire Spanish class fail and it wouldn’t be due to any problem with the rubric or the teaching. It would simply be that kids who are struggling to read and write in English are unlikely to do well at reading and writing in their third language.

        Significantly more than half of that year group either dropped out or did a senior cycle option that does not qualify them for most colleges, because they would not be able even to do the exams that are used for college admission. Of those who are attempting the exams that allow them to apply for college, there are still one or two who have no chance of passing due to their ability level.

        Since your kid earns good grades, they obviously wouldn’t be in a class where everybody including them failed. The kind of classes where that happens are ones that don’t have any students who always get good grades, either because the school has put all the weakest students together in order to give the some hope of passing by extra support or else because the school has a reputation for working with students who are struggling and therefore parents of childen with additional needs are likely to choose it for their child and parents of hight achieving children are not as there is a risk they wouldn’t be sufficiently challenge if they are performing much higher than the rest of their year group.

        1. RagingADHD*

          I haven’t seen the show, but if the character is flunking an entire class of special-needs and/or ESL students because he doesn’t think their essays are up to par, they are going to have a really, really hard time positioning him as a sympathetic character. And I can’t imagine other characters referring to him as “brave.”

    11. Charlotte Lucas*

      When I applied to college back in the late 80s, I had to send in a transcript (which included my GPA) and my ACT scores (this is a common test for Midwestern students, with 4 subject areas). One failed paper would not make or break me, and it would have been unusual for an English class to ride on one paper that the students hadn’t been working on for some time with the teacher’s guidance.

      From what I hear, nowadays parents blame poor grades on teachers more than on their kids. And grade inflation has been a concern amongst educators since the 90s.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        See, I’m really sceptical of grade inflation fears; we have a lot of that in the UK too, based on nothing more than the fact that grades are rising. But grades are better for the same reason that athletes are faster, and technology is more astounding. We have better techniques in the field which are constantly improving. When I worked in different schools on supply, I saw some awful, awful schools. They were all distinctly better than the teaching in “my day” though.

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          Ehh… I remember more than one person being pressured to give a good athlete who was a terrible student a “by” when I was a TA in the 90s.

          In fact, we had guardrails in place, because large regional companies had wanted students to show more aptitude in some areas or they’d stop hiring from our university.

        2. RagingADHD*

          I have been astonished throughout my kids’ schooling at how early they are learning advanced concepts, as well as how they are trained in meta-thinking about their own learning process.

          For example, in early elementary they could name the different reading techniques that they were using to tackle new words or improve their comprehension. It’s great stuff!

      2. Snacattack*

        When I got to college in 1978, “Dean Dan “ was very, very concerned about grade inflation and worked hard to get professors to give lower grades. He was not popular with the student body, and with good reason. The notion that the purpose of grades is to rank students rather than to reflect their achievement, which is basically the idea that underlies concerns about grade inflation, is really, really, really strange, and in my opinion as a lifelong teacher unbecoming for an educator.

    12. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      In addition to everyone else’s comments, GPA will influence being eligible for a cum laude, magna cum laude, or summa cum laude degree in many school districts, and those do influence college admissions.

      My graduating class had something like 50 salutatorians and 20 valedictorians, and such a grade would have disqualified any of them (they all had perfect 4.0 GPA (93+% in every single course over 4 years)).

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        We only had one valedictorian, and it was a big school. But we did have an Honors List, basically the high school equivalent of the Dean’s List.

      2. londonedit*

        Hang on. Your average grades in high school can affect what classification of degree you’re able to get?

    13. Potsie*

      Are teachers really personally on the hook for whether kids get into college or not?

      Individual students, no. But if your entire class can’t get into college, it does cast doubt on your ability as a teacher.

    14. JHunz*

      Personal anecdote time! One of my high school teachers (AP English) was a very hard grader (for high school, anyway) but incredibly effective at teaching you how to improve your writing up to his high standards.

      He was forced out after the year I had him (no tenure yet) because there was an Honors English class with an easier grader and the AP class he taught (both contributing the same way to GPA), and the one-letter difference in resulting GPA because of his higher standards made the difference in who got valedictorian out of my class and her parents raised absolute hell.

    15. Flower necklace*

      I am a high school teacher and we have a minimum number of summatives we have to give each quarter. This is specifically to prevent situations where one grade would tank the entire quarter. However, I’m in Virginia, not Texas, and I don’t know if that’s a universal rule or not.

    16. Hillary*

      The biggest difference is we don’t do big final exams in the states. It’s not one teacher’s grades, it’s 4-8 teachers times four years, sometimes changing at the semester or trimester mark. I went to a small town high school – the only teachers I had all four years were for French, band, and choir. I had four English teachers, three social studies (one for both 10th and 12th), five science teachers, and three math teachers (one for 11th and 12th). No one teacher is responsible for a kid’s college acceptance, but there is pressure and parents can be jerks. Probably not unlike the pressure on British public schools for their students to get into Oxford & Cambridge.

      In Texas it’s more complicated because the top 6% of public high schools’ graduating classes are automatically accepted to the University of Texas (Austin) and top 10% to most other public universities in the state.

      SATs and ACTs are fortunately becoming less commonly required because they contain a ton of implicit bias. They expect you to have all the implicit knowledge of a white, upper-middle/upper class, suburban kid.

      Adding on to others’ comments about GPAs – many of the more selective colleges/universities have weighting in place to combat grade inflation (and grade weighting where harder classes may start on a 5 instead of a 4) built with the high schools’ aggregate data. A 4.0 from Difficult International Baccalaureate High School isn’t the same as a 4.0 from All-As “Prep” School.

    17. Language Lover*

      I love the English Teacher. It’s an exaggerated reality. As a former teacher, I don’t think a parent would become as much of an enemy as “Linda” was but the basic dynamics feel familiar. Parents putting pressure on a weak administration that cares more about pleasing parents than setting standards…and makes it the teacher’s problem? Yep.

      Everyone has given you a summary of the US system so I’ll share why this might be a big deal for a student (and their parents) who want to send their kid to an exclusive university or keep them in sports. A failing grade on one assignment isn’t going going to lead to the kid failing the whole class but it likely will bring down the overall grade for the class. Even a 3.99 GPA vs a 4.0 can make a difference with stiff competition.

      And if they’re not good students, then a low grade in the class could bring their average low enough to put them on probation from participating in sports.

      Given how competitive things are, pressure does get put on teachers to boost grades.

    18. Hyaline*

      Yes, colleges accept “grades from teachers” in the form of the GPA. GPA is the the grade point average calculated from the final grades in all the student’s courses (A=4 points, B=3, etc), not a grade on the individual essay. All A’s is a 4.0 GPA. Student complete work in a course, the course is graded, the teacher gives a final grade in the course. There is rarely an external exam component to high school coursework (typically only if the course is dual credit with a college or if it’s part of an external program like Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate); the ACT or SAT standardized tests are separate from actual high school coursework and are kind of designed/considered to be an second component to college admissions combined with high school GPA and transcripts showing grades in individual courses. (The idea being–a student with high points on both is a good candidate; a student with high test scores but low GPA or vice versa may not be a shoe-in applicant, very very broadly, alongside extracurriculars, college application essays, etc. There are lots of debates you could have about this system.)

      So–this show’s plot is a bit of a stretch IMO because it assumes that 1) these kids all had A’s in the class to begin with and 2) one single bad essay grade dropped their overall grade. That’s just not really how most grading systems work in high school! But the concept is that the teacher holding them to robust standards and not caving to pressure to inflate their grades will have an impact on their overall GPA, which could impact their college prospects, and that is in essence a real thing. Parents can and do get testy that their kid’s perfect 4.0 GPA (demonstrating all A’s) is shattered when a teacher holds them to higher standards; there’s a whole debate on “grade inflation” at both the high school and college level. (I get students grumpy with me all the time in freshmen courses when they realize that the standard for an A is not simply “turn in all work”–this suggests the bar was very low for them in high school.)

    19. Zippity Doodah*

      American here. when I was in school in the 90s, grades (as distinct from standarduzed test scores) were completely up to the teacher and did affect college admission via GPA. You could fail a class for any reason at all — bad handwriting, messy notebook, rest of the class was disruptive –if the teacher felt like it.

      Conversely I knew of a kid whose college physics prof called the high school to report he had falsified his A (top grade) in physics, because obviously he didn’t know any of it; only to have the HS teacher confirm that he had gotten an A for effort and attitude.

    20. fhqwhgads*

      I think you’re sort of conflating multiple issues, some of which are separate.
      1) Universities care about GPA. So the one F would really screw that up.
      1b) You mention the concept of “final high school grades”… here all grades are always from the teachers. The “final” grade is an average of all class assignments and tests throughout the course, with some things weighted more heavily than others. Hence why the F would screw that up. Any standardized test is a totally separate thing from grades. SAT is basically an entrance exam. So yes, they are the formal exam for college applications. They still have nothing to do with grades.
      2) No teachers are absolutely not on the hook, but the notion that parents would be all up in arms and blaming teachers as though they were on the hook is extremely realistic.

      1. londonedit*

        Right, this is interesting because here in England (I won’t say UK because I know for example the Scottish system is slightly different) university places are based entirely on externally administered exams (A levels). At 16 you take exams in 8-12 subjects – these are called GCSEs which stands for General Certificate in Secondary Education. From there, if you get good enough results (they’re now number grades, but back in my day the standard was at least 5 passes at A-C grade) then you can go on to choose 3-4 subjects to study for another two years, which are your A level subjects. It’s all done by external examination (you don’t have to pay, though) and administered by nationwide exam boards. So everyone in England studying A level Biology, for example, takes the same exam papers on the same days. You have to complete an application form for university before you take your exams, which goes to all the universities you choose to apply for (I think you can apply to five or six) and then the universities offer places on their degree courses based on the A level grades they want you to get (so, for example, I had an offer from my chosen university that was ABB, with the A in English. So I had to get an A in English, and at least B grades in my other two A level subjects, to get into that university). Most people will end up with a first choice and an ‘insurance’ choice which requires lower grades. Then the A level results come out in August, and at that point you know whether you’ve got in to study at your chosen uni and on your chosen course (we specialise here, so you choose a specific degree course when you apply). If you’ve just missed the grades then often your chosen uni will accept you anyway, or there’s a thing called Clearing where you can be placed on a degree course at a different uni, if you don’t quite get the grades for your first and second choices.

        During the Covid lockdown years, exam results were based entirely on teacher assessment and predicted grades, and there was a LOT of handwringing about that. Apart from at that weird time, exams and university entrance have nothing to do with teachers – it all comes down to the national exams.

  37. cosmicgorilla*

    When I was following up on the updates from Alison’s recent “blast from the past” articles, I re-read one of the other updates on the linked page. The person updated that they had multiple opportunities, but they had deferred the one for teaching English in Japan to March 2020.

    Gulp.

    Something tells me they didn’t go. I wonder if they got to do it post-Covid, or if they changed their goals.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      SAME. It seemed like the job they chose over the teaching program was more aligned with their goals, so I was hoping they just became a superstar in that field and never gave the program another thought

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      Me too! I’d love an update on what they decided to do. They seemed happy in their job. I hope it all worked out for them.

  38. All het up about it*

    So – what’s the thought on running cover letters through ChatGPT or equivalent?

    We should just trust that following guidelines and templates like Alison’s is going to be good enough? Following a template and then using AI to zhuzh it up is the best bet because everyone will? Or because everyone will it’s better to keep your natural voice?

    Just a thought that popped into my head after an AI discussion that I thought might be interesting to discuss here.

    1. Spacewoman Spiff*

      I’m a strong writer, so I wouldn’t ever use ChatGPT–it would make my cover letters worse. I think this depends on how strong a writer you are and how much writing is a part of the jobs you’re applying for. When I’ve read cover letters written by ChatGPT, I’ve found them pretty soulless and they’re just regurgitating a combination of information from the JD and resume, which isn’t what cover letters are meant to do, so they actually weaken the application.

      1. Ama*

        I agree with you – I use a app that helps me advance schedule social media posts for my small business and they keep touting their AI auto posts, but the examples they’ve shown me are not good writing (and also have factual errors because their tool is just regurgitating language and not paying attention to context – for example on a post where I linked to an interview I did on someone else’s YouTube channel it said *I * was the channel host). For really entry level jobs where the hiring manager isn’t looking at the cover letter much, you might get away with it but any job where a hiring manager puts a lot of weight on the cover letter it won’t help you at all.

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I think using AI for grammar, transitions, rephrasing something awkward – fine. But running the whole cover letter through ChatGPT seems like such a missed opportunity to me. I like cover letters precisely because I get a sense of the applicant’s voice and how they connect different elements of their background. I suppose if you really struggle with cover letters it would bring you up to “average”, but I can’t visualize a truly compelling cover letter that leans too heavily on AI.

    3. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      ChatGPT will produce something that is average and generic. If that’s an improvement for you, you might consider it (other ethical and environmental considerations aside; it’s enough for it to be a no-go for me, but you may disagree). If you think you can do better than “average and generic” on your own, then obviously you wouldn’t want to.

    4. Emotional support capybara (he/him)*

      Don’t use it. If you don’t even care enough to write your own cover letter, why should a hiring manager believe you’d treat the actual job any differently?

    6. ArlynPage*

      I’m applying for jobs right now and avoid using ChatGPT for cover letters because I want my cover letter to sound like me, and I’m worried that my cover letter will use the exact language that many other applicants use, which would be suspicious if there even is a human reading the cover letter.

      Where I _have_ been using AI:

      – I copy the job description and ask which keywords I should put in my application

      – I ask what questions the interviewer might ask (e.g. I met with a couple of members of the engineering team, as well as a program manager and a director of strategic technology, and actually ChatGPT pretty much nailed the questions I should prepare for each interview)

      – When coming up with examples of times I’ve failed or other behavioral interview types of questions, I use ChatGPT to help tighten up my story so I’m not droning on and on. I kind of type in alllll the details about the example, and AI helps me get the story more succinct.

      1. All het up about it*

        These are some really helpful ways to use AI! I’m definitely going to remember them for when I need to job hunt in the future.

    7. Donkey Hotey*

      If you are using above average material, it will make it worse. AI only helps if the material you’re using is below average to begin with.

    8. Nesprin*

      It’s most useful in my experience for first drafts, which then need to be edited by a human.

    9. RagingADHD*

      You should never accept anything from AI as a final draft. Everything should be in your own voice. AI is just a suggestion tool to create a first draft or see if there are possible improvements.

    10. Potsie*

      Do you think AI is a better writer than you are? I feel good about my cover letters and they reflect my voice. I don’t see a benefit to AI. If you are a weak writer then maybe seeing the changes and deciding individually what to changes to keep might help. I wouldn’t blindly accept the changes though.

    11. Elizabeth West*

      I don’t use it at all, nor do I encourage others to use generative AI because I want it to go the way of the dodo. However, I do have a “base” cover letter, with macros for things I tend to repeat. I tweak it for each position. Even if it’s not a masterpiece, it’s me who wrote it and I hope it reflects that.

    12. Ann O'Nemity*

      Using AI to help with cover letters is fine, especially for formatting and polishing, but don’t lose sight of the importance of your personal voice and the specifics of the job you’re applying for. Combining AI’s efficiency with your own authenticity will likely help you stand out.

    13. Hillary*

      The biggest reason not to use ChatGPT is that it’s going to spit out the same cover letter for everyone who asks. You don’t want your letter to be identical to fifty other applications.

      1. Compliance is fun*

        That’s not true – if you give it your resume it will tailor it specifically to you.

      2. Raia*

        AI will leave in some facts about you but it will use language it’s seen frequently before which is all the regurgitations it’s spit out for other folks.

        I wouldn’t use AI to write my cover letter, maybe draft ways to phrase a sentence here or there, but not in its entirety. I’m a strong writer, and if my handwritten cover letter gets rejected by the HR’s AI I’ll consider it a job successfully dodged.

    14. Eleanor*

      For grammar and spelling, sure. For writing it or for rephrasing it–definitely not. I can tell when someone has had ChatGPT write their cover letter and it is not a point in their favor.

      1. All het up about it*

        Thanks I was curious about hearing what current hiring managers are seeing. It’s been awhile since I’ve needed to hire and even longer since I’ve been on the job hunt. A friend was so casual about cover letter being so much better with AI it threw me for a loop!

    15. Andromeda*

      I wouldn’t use ChatGPT for anything besides “spot checking” (so running individual sentences through it to cut words, for example.) The three reasons for this:

      1. AI tools, especially the rudimentary ones, often have tells. I do not want any company I am applying for to know I have used AI to write a cover letter, especially since I write for a living.
      2. I naturally have a plainspoken, fairly “young” style, which doesn’t really match the kind of stuff ChatGPT would want to write in a cover letter and super doesn’t match with a company who would want to hire me for my style.
      3. The templatised cover letters that ChatGPT would spit out are likely to be very rote. A problem for me because of aforementioned writing profession.

      People absolutely do use AI for writing stuff where I work, but most of them are not writers by profession and they only ever really use it for grammar checks and internal comms.

    17. Compliance is fun*

      Ok so I used Gemini for my resume and cover letter recently. I am a good writer but I was having trouble selling my skills in an impactful way, and Gemini really helped with that in the resume. Then when I got to the cover letters, the constant re-writing for different jobs was getting to me. So I fed back in my resume as well as the job description and asked it for a cover letter. I was so happy with the results, so I got it to write me a few more for a few different jobs.

      We’ll, that’s where things got screwed up. It turns out that Gemini “forgets” context after a little while, so it forgot my resume but not the job description. It wrote “my experience in [name previous job] means that…” and I just didn’t notice! So I applied to the job with that cover letter.

      Not long later I got an interview for that job and they sent me back my cover letter and resume (I assume so I know what I told them). And there was the glaring error that they clearly hadn’t noticed either! The job was compliance/admin and “attention to detail” was a top skill requirement, but no one noticed, no one asked me about it and I got the job. Yay I guess?

      The moral of the story is, be careful with AI. But it can also be quite helpful.

      1. Compliance is fun*

        Oh, I should mention that I also gave Gemini my first draft for the cover letter so that it could incorporate my ownvoice into it.

    18. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      I never see this aspect discussed but I recently learned how much energy AI consumes (will link an article in a reply) and I can’t bring myself to buy into it.

      >> We should just trust that following guidelines and templates like Alison’s is going to be good enough?

      yes pretty much! There’s no silver bullet that AI will add to your cover letter. It might save you time, it might not. It might make your cover letter better, it might make it worse.

      >> Or because everyone will it’s better to keep your natural voice?

      Not “Because everyone else will” but because a lot of AI writing is not very good. I’ve seen applications recently that sound totally generic and dubiously true.

    20. All het up about it*

      Just to be clear I wasn’t asking about using AI to write a cover letter from scratch, but using it to jazz it up, make it more professional etc.

      I’m happy to see that the take aways seem to be not worth it or possibly helpful depending on writing style.

  39. BellaStella*

    I have to ask: if a person in your company was under an HR investigation would your HR go ahead with letting this missing stair hire someone? They had all the other direct reports all moved out from them this year. My hope that HR was gonna help in my difficult situation is fading. To top it off the new hire is a former teammate who really wants to work here again and the missing stair and big boss crafted this role for them as they do not have good boundaries and will end up doing the missing stair’s work. Am pretty disillusioned now. Was hoping this mess would get better as it has been a long time. Not sure why HR protects bad people.

    1. I Can't Even*

      Not all HR’s are created equal very often they are not trained in employment law and do not recognize the requirements. Also HR is there to protect the company from liability not help the employees.

      1. WellRed*

        Protecting the company from liability is one part of the job. Protecting it from liability often means doing right by the employees.

  40. Miss Fisher*

    Curious how everyone feels about leaving organizational awards on a resume for external job applications. My org has several types of awards that are considered prestigious to receive. It goes on our career profile that can be seen org wide. If the organization is well know, would other organizations within the same field know what it takes to receive these awards? Or is it more of a notice that the person has been recognized at some level for their current organization, but they don’t necessarily know what the award actually is?

    1. NaoNao*

      I leave them all on–that’s a great thing to use on the cover letter and in interviews in terms of adding “color” to explain why they’re prestigious and the reason you got the award, IMHO.

    2. Blarg*

      I won what was basically employee of the year for state employees once, for the whole state, but the award has a state-specific name like the “Pikes Peak Award” if I were in Colorado. So I list it as X Award [State Employee of the Year], year.

    3. No Tribble At All*

      Leave it on, but clarify it in your resume or cover letter. Put it as part of that job:
      – Senior Teapot Designer, Spouts Inc, Teapotville
      — Led team of 10 that designed teapots, etc. …
      — Received “Full Steam Ahead” award for creation of high-temperature glaze material

  41. CTT*

    Anecdotal survey of the lawyers and support staff of AAM: do you regularly use document comparison software?

    I’m beta-testing a new program and found it to be very bad and gave (measured!) feedback. The big problem is that it renders redlines in a way that runs the risk of us sending inaccurate redlines (which is a huge ethical issue) and just makes it confusing to read. I’m really surprised that wasn’t caught in earlier tests, and the person from IT who is overseeing this is acting like I’m the weirdo for saying this is a problem. Everyone I know uses comparison software daily, but it’s a big firm, and my assistant and I are starting to wonder if there’s such a small subset of us who regularly use these programs that IT doesn’t really care about the rollout.

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      I do not use separate document comparison software. I don’t think anybody in our small-ish firm does. The documents I have to watch out for tend to be sub-50 pages, so I don’t use anything more specialized than the functionality offered in Word. My practice is mostly civil litigation, estate planning and litigation, and family law. If I were to move back to a position where I was drafting and negotiating deals, licenses, etc., I imagine it would be helpful — approaching required.

    2. Another Lawyer*

      I use it regularly in my practice in a larger firm. When we trade drafts with other parties I always double check to see what’s been changed.

    3. RagingADHD*

      I use Document Compare in MS Word constantly, and always have.

      I have never used an add-on tool for this.

  42. BonjourHi*

    Have you worked for a company that always have job postings up but in fact no team intended to hire?

    My anecdotes told me that companies do so from time to time to look good to the investors. Some teams were looking for a unicorn for their team: The team was not hiring unless someone very special came by.

    No matter the causes, the behaviour drove many job seekers bonkers because many took time to customize the job applications and perhaps took time to off for interviews. Still, it is hard to proof and stop such behaviour from the companies because of privacy.

    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      I just did five rounds at a smaller/medium company (150 people) that, as it turns out, was either looking for a unicorn on a 2018 (pre-inflation) salary, or to hire for a very basic role abroad. I did not realize they would lowball until the very end. Such nice people too, so the fact that it went south when money came up was very disappointing to me.

      They have an office in India and I then saw that job posted in India almost at the same time the hiring manager called to tell me they’ve decided to downgrade some of the requirements and “go a different direction for now but will keep me in mind.”

      So they technically hired someone but since the hiring manager knowingly intends to hire someone without the technical skills (one being researching and interpreting state level laws in the US, and it is an art to even find half of them!), I guess that counts as not really filling the position.

    2. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Worked for them? Nope. But I’ve been job searching for nearly 2 years, and there are 4 companies in my area that have had a job listing in my area for that entire time. A contact at one of those companies said the company is not actively hiring, they just like to make it look like they are growing.
      And honestly, good luck to them if they ever actually DO want to hire, because at the last conference of the city chapter for our professional group, they were a running joke throughout the day. Everyone knows their job listings are fake.

    3. Filosofickle*

      I recently added another theory to the standard set: They post job adverts to look good to overworked employees. See, we’re trying to hire, honest! If you just hang in there and keep grinding it will get better!

  43. WheresMyPen*

    Christmas party ideas wanted! I’m part of a group tasked with pitching ideas for our Christmas party. It’s been an even split of votes for an external party or in-office one. We’re in central London so hiring venues is very expensive and last year the pub they booked was too small. They’ve suggested having an in-office party and using the budget for entertainment, food, drinks etc. Anyone have any good ideas for entertainment that works well for this kind of party for around 70 people? I’m thinking things like a cocktail/mocktail making station, games, I think they had karaoke once but I picture that being a bit cringey. I’m sure in London there are loads of people we can hire to do fun things at parties but I have little experience in this kind of thing. We’re a fairly relaxed office, creative industry, mix of ages. Thanks!

    1. Dust Bunny*

      My office is only about half that size but our parties are catered box lunches (choice of a list of 3-4 entrees, so it covers most dietary choices) and low-stakes games: Bingo, raffles, table pong, one time we borrowed a Wii basketball game from someone, that kind of thing. ENTIRELY voluntary.

    2. Strive to Excel*

      At a party I was at many years ago they hired a magician. He didn’t do a big show, just wandered from table to table and did all sort of smaller things. Card tricks, making things vanish, setting his wallet on fire, etc. I’m sure there’s a term for it. Floor magic?

      Anyways, it was a load of fun, not cringey at all. Would recommend!

      1. BigLawEx*

        In the US, it’s referred to as ‘close-up’ magic…if the LW goes that route. Lots of people really like it.

    3. Ostrich Herder*

      Depending on your budget, maybe some sort of quieter live music like a piano player who can take requests? That brings in the spirit of karaoke without the cringe, and is a nice background that won’t drown out conversations like a full band might, allows for dancing if that’s anyone’s cup of tea, etc.

    4. WorkerDrone*

      Having a board game table – Scrabble, Monopoly, etc – was a big hit at the last office party.

      We also had a friendly co-worker volunteer to lead a “learn how to knit” group activity that was a HUGE hit – the key was that the co-worker volunteered freely, and was not voluntold. Amazon has a product where you can buy a bunch of cheap knitting needles – the circular ones you can buy 18 pairs for $17. Then they bought a bunch of cheap yarn. (Note: I say ‘they’, but I mean the COMPANY.) People got to keep their needles and the leftover yarn they didn’t use, plus the questionable “squares” they created (mine was more triangular).

      Another friendly co-worker very kindly volunteered to run a short D&D kind of game. I don’t play, so I’m going to describe this poorly, but they basically walked people through creating short character sheets (spent maybe 15 minutes on that), then took them on a 45 minute “adventure” that was based around the office. Roll for skill points to change the ink in the copier for example.

      Finally, the cookie-decorating station was also very popular.

  44. Kesnit*

    I am looking for some advice on a situation…

    I was a nerf herder for a little over 6 years. A year ago, I did a lateral transition and became a nerf hunter, which requires me to work closely with the local nerf herders. (Many people think nerf herders and nerf hunters are enemies, but the reality is that we are on different sides of the central issue.) Being a nerf herder can be a high-stress job. People only need a nerf herder if they are in a serious situation. Over the years, I’ve seen a lot of people start their career of being a nerf herder. Most of the time, although there are usually some rough patches starting out, people get the basics down pretty quickly.

    And then there is Bill. Nerfing is a second career for Bill and his previous one was pretty high-stakes, so you would assume Bill would be used to working under pressure. He isn’t. He started in the nerf herding office about a year ago, but did not start as a line nerf herder until May of this year. I have never have never seen a new nerf herder so out of place as Bill. I am also convinced that Bill is going to either have a heart attack or a stroke one day at work! He always seems to be having a fit of “nerves.”

    I have seen him in action a few times, but yesterday was almost painful. He had the entire day’s list of issues (which is normal). All through the morning, he never seemed to know what was going on with the nerfs. In one, he talked about “two incidents” when there were actually 4. He tried to claim something that is completely unbelievable until another nerf herder who was in there with him whispered to him and he switched to something that at least made sense. (Nerf herders can and do put forward crazy things as part of their job, but there are limits to what can reasonably be said. It was clear leader running the show felt his original claim was both incoherent and out of the bounds of reasonable.) After lunch, I went back to argue a situation that had been carried over from the morning while a coworker (and fellow former nerf herder), Blair, sat in because he was covering the rest of the nerf hunter issues for the afternoon. Bill bumbled through and clearly did not know what all the issues were. Again, another nerf herder stepped in to get him through it. There was also the instance where the client started talking to Bill and Bill’s coworker about her upcoming issue – and was loud enough for the leader, Blair, and me to hear. (I am the nerf hunter in that issue.) The leader even asked if they wanted to step to talk and Bill said no. (Hint: WRONG ANSWER!) Later in the afternoon, Blair came back to the office and told me that Bill had continued that way through the rest of the afternoon. Blair also said there were times when he almost felt so bad for the clients that he wanted to shift a little and help them!

    And that is what worries me, Blair, and another nerf hunter in our office. People who need a nerf herder cannot choose their nerf herder, but they have a right to one who is competent, and we’re having questions if Bill can do that. All the issues I saw him handle yesterday were ones that were pretty slam-dunk for me and there was not a lot for him to argue. But there were things that he could have said, and a lot of things he could have said better. Even knowing what he was trying to say, I got confused a few times with his argument. On the other hand, I don’t know that it is my place to approach a senior nerf herder and voice my concerns. Yes, I was a nerf herder for many years, but I’m not any more. Worse, I’m “the enemy” and don’t want to make it sound like I am bad-mouthing a nerf herder behind their back. (For the most part, I have a decent professional relationship with the staff in that office.)

    Thoughts?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      I think you can (and should) talk to the senior nerf herder about Bill. What’s turnover among the herders like? Did you work with this senior nerf herder when you were a herder? If you did, that should give your observations more weight.

      I don’t think it’ll come off like badmouthing if you approach the conversation something like this: “Hey, I think Bill might need more coaching/training/support. I noticed that he said no when the leader asked if they wanted to step to talk, which surprised me given that nerf herders usually say yes. Also, he tried to claim [unbelievable thing] the other day, and [other nerf herder] has to step in to correct him. I’m worried he may say something unbelievable in front of clients and hurt our company’s reputation.”

      1. Kesnit*

        “What’s turnover among the herders like?”
        If someone is going to burn out (which is common), it is usually around the 5 year mark. Some people can do it for an entire career. Many people use it as a stepping stone to related jobs in the nerfing field.

        “Did you work with this senior nerf herder when you were a herder?”
        Not really. I interviewed with the Chief Nerf Herder when I was starting out, but ended up in a different office. We did have a client in common once, so worked together to coordinate all of their issues. The Deputy Nerf Herder was one of my instructors at Beginner and Advanced Nerf Herder courses. The rest of the nerf herders I only got to know when I became a nerf hunter.

        “‘I’m worried he may say something unbelievable in front of clients and hurt our company’s reputation.’”
        To be clear, nerf herders and nerf hunters do not work for the same company. (We’re actually government employees and work for different agencies.)

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Ah, different government agencies! That puts “people think nerf herders and nerf hunters are enemies” into some context.

          Depending on the politics between the two agencies, would “I’m worried he may say something unbelievable in front of clients and hurt [Nerf Herder Agency’s] reputation” go over well? Or, if that won’t fly, could you believably say, “I’m worried he may say something unbelievable in front of clients and [lose the client/delay the project/make the project unsuccessful/etc.].” Basically, some way to say, “I’m telling you this because I care about the success of [nerf herders], not just to badmouth Bill behind his back.” Maybe the politics are such that you could say exactly that?

    2. MsM*

      You’re still someone who has valuable insight into how nerf herding is supposed to work, and whose opinion your former colleagues hopefully trust regardless of your current responsibilities. If Bill is as lost handling internal responsibilities as he was during this meeting, they’ll probably appreciate having external confirmation that this is not a sustainable state of affairs. If they’re not aware, they’re going to have to find out sooner or later. Might as well be from someone who genuinely cares about the overall health of the nerf ecosystem than someone who might try and take advantage of Bill’s struggles. And if they do nothing with it, well, at least you tried.

    3. RagingADHD*

      I think if you just said prosecutor and public defender it would be a lot easier to follow and clarify that there are serious ethical issues at play.

      Nobody is going to be able to identify a single incompetent public defender out of all of the jurisdictions in the world.

      2. Kesnit*

        I originally had public defender and prosecutor when I wrote it. You are right that there are ethical issues here, which I was trying to avoid going into by changing the titles.

        1. RagingADHD*

          I meant the ethics of Bill’s duty and the question of you speaking up. Given the unfortunate frequency of ill prepared and questionably competent public defenders, and the very common ways in which Bill is screwing up, the question is much more generic than it probably feels to you.

          If nothing else, his obvious errors may be creating more possibilities for appeal, which does impact your “side,” if your cases wind up getting overturned as a result.

        2. Jaydee*

          But the ethical issues are the key here. Bill isn’t just bad at his job. Bill doesn’t work in a profession that lacks ethical rules. Bill is potentially violating his ethical obligations to his clients. And you probably have a duty to do something about that.

          Coming from the civil side, I might be seeing it inaccurately, but I can’t imagine a *more* credible situation for raising an opposing counsel’s ethical lapses than a prosecutor saying “hold up, I think that defense attorney is really screwing over his clients.” You’re not alleging he’s acting unethically to unfairly benefit his clients. From the traditional view of defense attorneys and prosecutors as enemies, an outsider would see the prosecutor as the one who stands to benefit from his continued incompetence.

      3. Glomarization, Esq.*

        Dang, seriously. I even recall Kesnit posting about this colleague before, but I didn’t put two and two together until just now because I got lost in the “nerf herder” nonsense. As usual, I really, really, really wish folks on this board would quit with the metaphors. People truly aren’t as identifiable online as they think they are.

      4. Ron McDon*

        Thank you! I was absolutely confounded as to what the OP was talking about – going back and rereading with those job titles in mind made it make sense!

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think you should talk to the senior nerf herder, especially if you have a good relationship with them. You can say, “Han, it’s true I made the jump to nerf hunter a while back, but you know I was a nerf hunter for a good while. I recognize how important it is that every nerf who needs a herder have one who’s really able to do good work on their behalf. Given that, I’m concerned about Bill’s work in the nerf pens. [Give examples.] I’d hate to think of a good nerf suffering because of poor herding on Bill’s part, and I know you would too, so I wanted to give you a heads up that I’m seeing these problems.”

    5. Jaydee*

      Three thoughts:
      – Talk to your boss about Bill and ask them to talk to Bill’s boss. It sounds like Bill is harming his clients and also jeopardizing the outcome of your cases if his clients figure out he sucks and complain they didn’t get an effective nerf herder. You and Blair have extra credibility since you were nerf herders. You should know what is reasonable newbie nerf herding jitters v. what is incompetence.
      – Report him to an appropriate professional licensing or disciplinary board. Not letting the nerf hunters overhear what your client is telling you is nerf herding 101. Like you said, clients have a right to a competent nerf herder and it doesn’t sound like Bill is performing to that standard.
      – Can you discuss your concerns with the leader or leaders assigned to the matters you have with Bill? The leader may also share those concerns and be able to engage in steps 1 and/or 2 from a more…neutral or not adversarial perspective.

    6. Glomarization, Esq.*

      1. Look at your jurisdiction’s professionalism rules and see if there is a basis and then mechanism for suggesting to the disciplinary authority that they should open a file on Bill (or however that works in your jurisdiction). This would be easier if it appeared that Bill is having issues of behavioral or mental health and you could contact your Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers. It’s more difficult to “report” a lawyer for just being terrible at their job, because you almost certainly do not have an ethical obligation under your rules, so this option may not be available to you. (If there’s a jurisdiction with such a rule, I’d be interested to see it and would welcome a comment.)

      2. Do not raise an issue with the Defenders office. They know Bill is doing a bad job. Everybody in the courtroom can see he’s doing a bad job. Clients might already have filed multiple complaints against him to the Defenders and the disciplinary authority. Eventually his cases will have appeal problems that his office can already see coming. My guess is that he will no longer be there after the end of his second year, or as soon as they can possibly manage him out. Stay in your lane, even though it’s hard to watch.

  45. Dust Bunny*

    More venting than anything: We just had to phone-block a vendor who just would not stop calling. They cold-called us about a product that we use in our daily operations, and kept calling until we made the mistake of letting them send us a sample. We did not want he product for [perfectly good reasons] and told them it wouldn’t suit our needs.

    Y’all, the guy called back twice in past two weeks. Called over and over again up to a dozen times in a row–literally one call after another–but did not leave a voicemail message.

    This is weird, right?

    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      I made the “mistake” of looking at my state’s ACA site and one person has been texting/calling me every single day, sometimes 3X a day. So maybe 40 communications already. I decided to do COBRA the rest of the year and TBH I’m so annoyed by how many times they’ve called in a row some days that I’ve been ignoring the ACA rep, or whatever you’d call them.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        We collectively ignored this guy for over half an hour yesterday and figured out how to block our desk numbers through Elevate, but we think he was calling the general department line because it was still getting through and we had to ask IT to step in.

        But . . . who calls 15 times in a row and doesn’t leave a voicemail??

    2. Ama*

      Some sales people seem to think that constant contact with potential clients is how they get sales. I remember telling one that the software they wanted us to switch to didn’t offer several of the features we would require for our work, thinking that would end the conversation. He basically kept reaching out wanting to use me as free market research for developing those features (which I sincerely doubt he had the power to ask for, I think he just wanted to maintain contact). From then on I just told any people trying to sell us new software that we weren’t interested in switching, no further discussion.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        Yeah, we have that script now.

        This one also told jokes with midcentury movie references in it. The oldest person in our department is 50–younger than the movies he was referencing. He was lucky we’re all a bunch of nerds or nobody would have understood what he was talking about.

        (He wasn’t gross or creepy or anything, just . . . weird.)

    3. H.Regalis*

      I have occasionally had that experience with vendors, including having to block them. It’s a terrible business practice, but there is at least a small contingent of salespeople out there who do it.

    4. Ellis Bell*

      Can you block him? It’s going to go on for as least as long as it did before you agreed to the sample. Letting it go to voicemail is a good move.

  46. nonprofit manager*

    I think I soft-pedaled an intern reprimand and I’m trying to figure out if I can/should fix it.

    Long story short, my paid student intern “Alice” messed up on a project designed as a very light stretch opportunity; basically, she slept through most of a project-critical meeting she was supposed to lead. My assistant filled in and it turned out fine, but obviously I had to have a chat with Alice.

    I don’t have a private office, but my floor is pretty quiet and it’s office culture to just have meetings in cubicle areas. Among other things, I told her: “This was a pretty serious problem, and [Assistant] should not have had to cover for you.” I then went through ways to mitigate this kind of problem in the future e.g. making sure her notes and prep work were available to the whole team, proactively communicating as soon as she knew she was going to be late, etc. She seemed to understand that it was a big deal in the moment, but now I’m wondering if I was too indirect about the impact on her reputation.

    Alice recently asked about extending her internship after she graduates, and I simply told her that wouldn’t be possible to have a non-student in the position. That’s technically true, but honestly I might have been able to pull some strings and make an exception if I were sufficiently motivated to keep on a really good intern. I probably should have said something like that at the time, it just didn’t occur to me.

    Am I being negligent by not being more explicit with Alice that her performance doesn’t make me want to go the extra mile? She’s since said that she wants to move on and wouldn’t want to extend the internship anyway, and whether or not that’s a face-saving position, it feels a little cruel/scolding to go back and make a point of telling her “Sure, but it might have been an option if you’d been more reliable.” With a regular part-time employee who was imminently leaving, I’d probably just shrug and figure it’s not worth the extra investment, but I feel a greater level of responsibility since Alice is a student and an intern.

    (Just to head off any speculation: as far as I know, there are no medical issues involved. She’s just a student who has not yet learned that late-night social events before important meetings are a bad idea.)

    1. Dust Bunny*

      I think it sounds like your reprimand should be enough, unless you have reason to think she’s more obtuse than average, and it doesn’t sound like you do.

    2. Antilles*

      Since you did already address it, I would not call it “being negligent” by not going back to that well. However, since she’s an intern, I do think it’d be worth providing that feedback more directly.
      Is there any sort of “exit interview” or “last day debrief” or anything like that? If there is (or you can make it happen), that would be the perfect place for this sort of thing. It makes it feel less like you’re dredging it back up and more just a review of everything – what she did well, what she didn’t (this event), etc. And you don’t need to directly say “you’d have gotten an offer if not for this”, but you can reiterate the importance of internal reputations and being proactive in keeping people in the loop.

      1. MsM*

        +1 on the end-of-internship debrief (which, if you don’t do it now, is also a good chance to get her feedback on the experience), and framing it as “if you want to be successful in this (or any field), you’re really going to need to make sure you prioritize these kinds of tasks and skills.”

    3. Nemy*

      I wouldn’t press the issue. You already informed Allison that her performance at the meeting was not good and notified her that you would not be able to extend her internship. If she continues to ask about future employment opportunities, you may need to be more blunt, but it sounds like nothing you’ve done would give Allison the impression that this internship would continue onwards.

    4. adonai*

      If it were not for that *one* meeting, would you have tried to pull strings to let her stay? If yes, I would actually go tell her that explicitly. If she had done the meeting, but you still wouldn’t have wanted to pull strings, I’d leave it alone.

      And, whether to share documents ahead of time etc – that is such an office-specific thing that I’d not take that into consideration, *unless* you explicitly told her to do that, and she ignored it.

    5. DisneyChannelThis*

      I think you’ve missed your moment to address it further.

      Alice messes up.
      You reprimand her for it.
      time passes
      Alice asks about job extension, you say not possible for a non student
      Alice says cool she didnt want the job anyway
      Considering: You say actually it is possible for non-student to continue but Alice you really weren’t good enough

      See how that just looks like you are retaliating to her remark? The moment was when she asked about the job options. I’d just let it go at this point. Also for what it’s worth the “not possible for a student” does read as an excuse, she can probably read between the lines, especially if you’ve taken on non-students before or it seems possible. Everyone messes up at work, especially in early career. I don’t think you need to keep rubbing her nose in her mistakes.

      1. Tio*

        Yeah at this stage it would feel a little off to just randomly go back to her and re-litigate the whole situation. I think like someone above mentioned if you have an exit interview bring it up as a whole look back, or if there’s a different issue that crops up you can kind of frame them together as how they look worse when paired close together. But going to her and saying “I would’ve fought for you if you hadn’t done that bad thing we talked about weeks ago” feels too sudden.

        1. WellRed*

          Reminds me of a letter where they wanted to contact a fired employee to reiterate how unprofessional they were. Don’t do that.

    6. ThatOtherClare*

      If she asked, you said no, then she later said she wouldn’t want to – that’s definitely face saving. She knows she messed up. She’s learned her lesson.

      It’ll go down better if you don’t embarrass her any further, thus making her regret the loss of being able to continue working with a good boss like you – rather than giving her the opportunity to save face with herself by thinking ‘It’s fine. I dodged a bullet! nonprofit manager wouldn’t lay off after I messed up that one time, I wouldn’t have wanted to stay on there anyway.’

      She would have been able to tell from the lack of regret or pain in your demeanour when you said no that she’d singed a bridge. By being calm and professional you’ll be making her kick herself for doing so, and that’s a far better lesson than a little more scolding would be.

    7. BigLawEx*

      My only question is what happens when? if? Alice asks for a reference. Would you explain it then. That feels like the next/best opportunity… Unless you’d provide a fine reference and consider this a one off mistake, then I’d leave it alone.

  47. BlueCactus*

    Best way to thank mentors who wrote letters of recommendation for me?

    I’m in my final year of medical school and am applying for residency, which requires quite a lot of letters of recommendation – I have three mentors who have been kind enough to write them. I’m writing thank you cards but also wanted to do something else for them in the vein of a small gift. All three of them have been amazing mentors to me and I want to acknowledge that! My thoughts were either books related to the things we’ve worked on together, or a small baked good. (I always feel a little odd giving people food, but I do know all these people well and they would all appreciate it). If you were getting a small gift from a mentee, what would you most enjoy?

    1. Antilles*

      In terms of gifts, that very much depends on the recipient, so not sure I have much advice here.
      The one thing that every mentor really appreciates and values is a honest and heartfelt written thank you. Not just a simple card with “thanks for writing the recommendation letter, crossing my fingers!”, but a truly from-the-heart letter talking about specific things you learned from them, how their advice helped you in the application process, ways they’ve inspired you or helped you grow, etc.

    2. Cordelia*

      I would be happy with a card with a personal message. Maybe if I knew they enjoyed baking and didn’t see it as a chore, some homemade cookies or similar would be nice, but I really wouldn’t want them to spend money on me. Mentoring students and writing letters of recommendation are part of the job, not a personal kindness they are doing

    3. Nesprin*

      Thank you card >>> any form of gift, so spend most of your time on that. Your ideas for a book or a baked good (or a gift card for the local coffee shop) would be perfect.

    4. K Smith*

      Agree – getting a heartfelt thank you note is… heartwarming! A little food gift that you know the recipient likes is always nice but it absolutely pales in comparison to the sincere thank you. Your words are absolutely the best gift :)

  48. Fortunate Falcon*

    Having a GREAT morning…just accepted an offer for a lateral move with a 27% raise! The negotiation took longer than I expected, so I was sweating it out for a couple of weeks, but it worked out in the end! Using Allison’s guidance, I gave a number that was based on data from my field, and I didn’t overly justify it; I put the ball back in their court, and they came through! Very nice to be able to give an enthusiastic “yes” to the position.

  49. Elizabeth West*

    person with a job offer for $2K more than what she was making at Exjob skips into the room

    OH HAI :)

    It’s a hybrid position (remote, two days a week onsite), doing almost the same thing I was doing before. This is a very large, multi-national company; it has an office here a teeny bit closer to me on the same commute. The team is in Philadelphia, but the company wants to expand this unit into the Boston area. Contingent on the usual background check (which was alarmingly thorough — I half-expected someone to knock on my door requesting a drop of blood), I start on the 14th.

    Is it normal now for jobs to start onboarding before you actually start working? And since I don’t start until then, would I still be considered unemployed? I don’t want to stop looking (or UI) yet, because what if they decide to scrap the position or something stupid happens? I doubt I’ll receive any wages until probably the beginning of next month, and my EBT drops on the 14th. I don’t want to get in trouble with any benefits either.

    1. adonai*

      Firstly, congrats on the almost job.
      Secondly, in July I started working for a *large* multinational, 10’s of thousands of employees. Previously I’d only been employed in start-ups. And, yes, they wanted me to do a bunch of onboarding stuff before I started. But, since I had a signed offer, I just ignored it. The only thing I saved myself time on was inputting my bank info for direct-deposit. So, I guess it all depends on what sort of thing they are expecting you to do.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        thanks!
        It’s mostly that kind of thing, and just “watch this video to learn more about us,” etc. I did it while I was eating dinner because I was bored, lol.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      Congratulations!

      Is it normal now for jobs to start onboarding before you actually start working?

      Somewhat? Depends on what the “onboarding” is. The last time I started a new job (2a few years ago), I filled out: I9 paperwork, non-disclosure agreement, direct deposit paperwork, and I think a few other forms before my first day. I think that level of “onboarding” is fine to start/complete before Day 1.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, it’s pretty much like this. The background check stuff is freaking me out a little but I can see them doing this for a mostly remote position.

        The boss wants to have a brief call next week to check in on it and also asked me where to send WFH stuff. I will be going in the first day to set up my laptop, etc. She also wants me to come to the Philly office at some point to meet the team. I’m not sure this is necessary? I mean, you pay for it, and I will, I guess?

        I hope they don’t ever want me to move. I am not doing that again!

        1. Hlao-roo*

          I always worry irrationally during background checks. What if they find out I got a parking ticket 5 years ago and rescind the offer? My old company changed names while I was working for them–what if that messes up the check and they think I lied about working there? I’ve never had a problem aside from my own anxiety during a background check.

          Fingers crossed you don’t have to move again! Moving is my least favorite activity.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Right? And it doesn’t help that I have my tiny little indie book thing that has almost no paperwork. I’m not lying about that, I swear!

        2. MsM*

          I think it’s important to connect with the people you’re going to be working with in person at least once or twice a year. It helps make you more “real” to them, and gives you a chance to see how the office operates that might help clear up any communication or logistical issues you’re having. They should definitely pay for your travel and accommodations, though.

          1. Elizabeth West*

            I’m okay with that, but I really hope they were serious about growing here because I don’t want to move more than 20 miles tops again. If I were 30 and didn’t have any stuff, it would be no big deal — I’d 100% be Emily in Paris, lol.

    5. Daphne*

      “Is it normal now for jobs to start onboarding before you actually start working?”

      I’ve had this happen.

      “And since I don’t start until then, would I still be considered unemployed?”

      Yes. You are unemployed until your start date.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Thanks!
        Yeah, that’s what I thought. I’ll keep applying and requesting benefits just in case something weird happens because you NEVER know. I don’t trust anything these days. :|

        1. carrot cake*

          Smart move. In the meantime, you must be SO relieved! I was unemployed for a year about 10 years ago and it made me question all my adult life decisions, and I never want to be there again. Congrats!!

          1. Elizabeth West*

            Definitely. After such a long period of unemployment before the last job, I was really bummed to have to do it AGAIN.

    6. My Brain is Exploding*

      I don’t know the answers but just wanted to say HURRAY and congratulations!! So happy for you!

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Thank you!!
        Omg I was so scared bc all the job listings right now are either:
        Administrative Drone: we’re not listing the pay because it’s peanuts, maybe evenings and weekends and as many other duties as we can think up,

        or else

        Executive Senior Personal Pepper Potts-level Assistant: $150-$200K, must be able to operate Stark Industries’ Mark XLIX superhero armor and run a Fortune 500 Top 10 company in the CEO’s absence with no help.

        There is no happy medium!

    7. Bitte Meddler*

      Congrats!

      Yes, it’s normal to fill out payroll and employee info prior to your start date. The company I’m at now (started almost a year ago) waited until I passed the background check but sent all the forms within minutes of getting the OK from the agency they used.

      And, yes, it’s to your advantage to go to Philly to meet the team you’ll be working with. It’ll actually help cement in their minds that you’re a competent professional who can be trusted to work independently, versus just some vague notion of who you are based on Teams calls.

      My company is pretty much fully remote, with a few WeWork spaces for those folks who need a place to go and for occasionally getting whole departments together. We had an off-site in April where everyone flew in from across the U.S., stayed in the same hotel, and did activities together (in between the required “business” meetings that allowed the company to write-off the expenses).

      It made a HUGE difference in the relationships I have with my co-workers. I’m an internal auditor so I’m pretty much always interrupting their normal work to request detailed documents. Pre-company meeting, people were coolly polite and responded to my requests within 3-4 days. Post-company meeting, the responses come in within 1-2 days and have emojis in the emails.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Yeah, I can dig this. I guess I’m not used to it, as an admin. No one usually cares!

  50. Happy Camper*

    What is reasonable reimbursement for mileage? Travelling for work for the first time and it’s $0.55/km. Just wondering what’s the norm.

    1. anon for this one*

      In the USA, it’s a number set by the internal revenue service that changes annually (at least in the public sector). Private firms usually follow the same guideline. Sounds like you are not in the US (km!) but it may be a similar policy.

      1. Antilles*

        Indeed.
        To put numbers on it for reference, the 2024 current federal rate is $0.67/mile. The rate has increased by a couple cents every year since 2022. Prior to that, the rate spent basically the entire decade between 2011 and 2021 floating somewhere around $0.56/mile.

        1. Ostrich Herder*

          And if I did my math right, the current federal rate of $0.67/mile would be about $0.42/km, so you’re above the federal norm in the USA, at least!

      2. Anon for this sensitive topic*

        the number set by the IRS is the maximum amount that can be used to reimburse an employee without it being taxable. unfortunately, it is always behind the curve on gas prices, and some companies pay less than the standard reimbursement rate because of that. my company currently reimburses at a rate of 56 cents a mile.

        1. Anon for this sensitive topic*

          hah! this is exactly a sensitive topic. hadn’t changed my username from when I did post something more sensitive.

    2. Our Business Is Rejoicing*

      I did post this elsewhere. If you’re in Canada, the CRA rate is $0.70/km, up to the first 5,000 km ($0.64 after that).

      1. Happy Camper*

        I am on Canada! Work for a massive org, so I’m surprised it’s below the CRA amount but have 0% chance of pushing back. Thanks for the info!

  51. Ostrich Herder*

    Any advice for dodging well-meaning followup questions about a family emergency from people who will be insulted if I don’t give them details?

    I was recently out for a few days with a family member in the hospital, and really strongly don’t want to talk about it at work. Unfortunately, I’m client-facing in an industry that’s very, very personal for most some of my clients – think memoir-type projects, where I wind up knowing a TON about them, their families, etc. These clients kind of expect that to be a two-way relationship, and I know of one or two “problem clients” who will definitely press and try to get details under the guise of worrying about me.

    Since the ones who’ll do it are touchy, emotionally-invested, and prone to causing issues, I need a really soft, friendly way to redirect them, or I’ll be working around their hurt feelings for weeks. Any ideas?

    1. Filthy Vulgar Mercenary*

      How about scripts that provide the illusion of sharing details without actually revealing anything personal?

      “Thank you so much for your concern. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness. It was a bit of a whirlwind, but things are settling down now, and I’m glad to be back in the swing of things. How has your week been going? Any exciting developments on your end?”

      “I’m touched by your kindness. It means a lot to have such caring clients. There were some ups and downs, as these situations often go, but we’re all doing better now. Now that I’m back, I’d love to hear about any updates on your project. How’s everything coming along?”

      “Things are looking up, thanks for asking. It was a bit challenging, but we’re focusing on the positives and getting back into our routines. Speaking of which, how are you feeling about the progress on your memoir? Any new ideas or directions you’re excited about?”

      “Oh, you know how family can be! A bit like a soap opera at times, but we’re all hanging in there. But enough about my drama, how about subject change?”

      And if they ask detailed follow up questions, be prepared to seem distracted – answer something in detail about how your sister in law was wondering that exact same thing and go off on a ramble about where she lives and how hard it is for her to get around in the new rural area without a car and then segue to policies around public transportation and how that caused an argument in your family and … etc.

      1. Ostrich Herder*

        The “illusion of sharing details” would actually be huge here, because I really think that what they’re looking for is to feel, emotionally, like I’m as open to them as they are to me. So something like “Oh, you wouldn’t believe it, we were stuck in [local hospital with a bad reputation] for eight hours before we could get transferred to [good hospital], can you believe that? It made me think of…” and then volleying it back to them and their stories will probably be really, really effective.

    2. Ostrich Herder*

      It may also be worth noting here, if the context changes anything – the answer to the inevitable followup “Are things okay now?” is a pretty definitive no, there’s a terminal diagnosis involved, and I’m likely to have to take more time in the future as things worsen. But I definitely don’t want to tell them that!

      1. Ellis Bell*

        I would head it off long before that point with some kind of script implying my family member is entitled to privacy+ distraction topic. So, “It’s not really my situation to share, but you know I am just really glad to be back doing Work Thing!” or “I was just there for emotional support, but they’re super private, so I felt very trusted. Anyway! (Subject change)!”, or “Could you do me a favour and distract me with literally any other topic? It’s not really my situation to share anyway.”

      2. Double A*

        You can truthfully answer something like, “Oh yes, things are stable” or “Yes, we have clarity about it now.”

        I’m sorry to hear about your family member.

      3. I Have RBF*

        I feel that. My wife got a cancer diagnosis. I asked her who I could tell and how much. She gave me permission to share. After chemo failed, she has gone on home hospice.

        When deciding on how much to share, ask your family member. Then you can say, with all honesty, “My family member has asked me not to share their health issues. I have to respect their wishes. Yes, the matter is ongoing, but the details are not mine to share.” Then you are not withholding stuff about your life, you are respecting someone else’s wishes.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      “You know, I really appreciate your concern, but I’m just not ready to talk about it. Rest assured that everything is okay now. Thanks for being so understanding.”

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Sorry, just saw that everything is not okay. How about “Rest assured that everything is being done that can be done.”

    4. Mostly just tired*

      Has anyone ever taken a sabbatical from work? I’m feeling incredibly burnt out and exhausted, but also feel stuck on what to do next. Would love to hear anyone’s experiences!

    5. Kimchi*

      Yikes.
      Maybe try playing to their ego? “Thanks for caring about me. But it’s really too painful to talk about right now. Keep me in your thoughts/prayers/facebook gossip chain.”
      Do they know about the emergency? If not, just say you were out of the office with the fam. (Which is true)
      I hope your family member is doing better.

        1. Ostrich Herder*

          It’s okay! I realized that was probably an important thing to include since it changes the advice, and I should have included it in the original bit, just hadn’t factored that in yet. Consider this a blanket “it’s fine and you’re fine!” to anyone who didn’t see the update before responding, it happens and I appreciate the concern/advice all the same!

    6. goose*

      That sounds tricky! I hope they’re respectful about it. A few ideas:
      “I really appreciate your concern, but it’s just a little too fresh to discuss at the moment. I’m sure you understand how that can be.”
      “It’s really sweet of you to ask, but I need some time to process it on my own. Work is a helpful distraction. Can you catch me up on XYZ?”
      “I need to keep things private, but thanks so much for asking. What have I missed?”

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        Sorry, [family member] asked me not to share their private medical info, but our family is all pulling together to give them the support they need.

    7. Flower*

      I’m so sorry about your family member.

      I think Filthy Mercenary’s ideas are brilliant. I might consider adding, if they continue to press and know it concerns a health thing, something like, “I do really appreciate your concern. But my relative has asked that I not share details. I know you will understand.” This takes the “blame” for noncommunication off of you. (Or “my relative would not want me to share details.”)

      Best wishes to you and your family.

    8. Potsie*

      “It’s been rough but I’m doing ok. I really appreciate your concern but talking about it makes it really hard to focus on work which I am sure you understand. Rest assured that everything is handled and I am fully ready to (insert next task for client).”

    9. RagingADHD*

      Having ghostwritten memoirs and being familiar with the type of relationship you describe, I would fall back on an appearance of fragility / asking for their help.

      So, something along the lines of, “Thank you but honestly I can’t bear to talk about it, and work is an escape for me. It would be a huge help if we could just focus on you and on the project.”

      And if they pressed the issue, I would say “I’m sorry, I just can’t. Excuse me,” and abruptly end the call / meeting as if I were having a breakdown. Then follow up in an hour or 2 by email to reschedule.

      On the surface level they will get their nasty little voyeuristic thrill, but also by subtext be forewarned that there will be no progress made if they can’t behave themselves appropriately.

      For agency clients, I would talk to my editor about what happened and of course cc them on my follow up email.

    10. Hyaline*

      Try appealing to their sense of empathy–“*I’m sure you understand* that this has been a difficult time and I would prefer not to discuss this situation.” “Thank you for your concern, but *I know you appreciate* why I don’t want to dig into.”

  52. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

    is it bad if I genuinely wonder what my boss does all day? she’s the office manager, and myself and my coworker (“we”) are office clerks in a law firm. said office manager is a newer position, she’s the first one in this role.

    if there are meetings to be set up, my coworker and I do it. we might get direction from her, like layouts and stuff (which she gets from the people running the meetings), but we set it up. we also set up water and coffee and IT stuff if it’s not already done so by the actual IT people.

    we also greet the clients when they’re here and get them situated in the conference rooms, and then let the attorneys know they have people waiting for them.

    we do the mail, and scan that and any fedex/ups packages as needed and drop them off to people.

    we put away any files that people have left out.

    we take monthly inventory and tell her what needs to be ordered. she does the ordering, but that’s more bc there can only be a certain number of users with the supplier. we unpack it and put it away and then also update the inventory sheets and budget information. at the end of the year, we’ll do the supply order budgets for all three cities we have offices in. we do not do the overall budget for our department, thank god.

    if someone brings in food for the office, we clean it up if it’s not already cleaned up.

    we don’t have a lot of people traveling for work, so there’s nothing there. she might do some continuing ed stuff for lawyers, but surely that doesn’t take up that much time?

    we manage the phones. and a lot of the calls are for an office in another city, who doesn’t have their own phone line. when I asked about this I was told it’s because their clerk only works in the mornings and they can’t have people’s phones ringing all day. in general too we pick up work from the other offices.

    if someone needs a messenger run, we do it. even if it’s involving walking five blocks with a dolly to drop off a heavy fedex package that has to go out that night.

    if an attorney has a project for us to do, they ask her and then she gives it to us.

    it just seems like my coworker and I do a lot. but I know she’s working later because she’ll send us emails about things to restock that we see the next day. she’ll help out if we ask, but generally we’re expected to do things ourselves.

    I am hoping my annoyance is not justified and I need to get to together and realize she’s got a lot more going on than I know (which I am sure is true).

    but when I think of an office manager just in general, it seems like we do a lot of what they do. I’m not being critical (or trying not to be, I am a lil stressed lately), but I am wondering….

    1. Ostrich Herder*

      It’s very possible that she’s managing projects you don’t know about, because they’re coming directly from the attorneys and she’s handling the whole thing without your input! I know many office managers cross over into some financial work as well, like managing hours/budgets/payroll, though you may have a dedicated staff member for that. I had a similar doubt about my own manager, early in my time here, because my plate was always full, but I was never sure what they were doing. Then I was re-organizing some project files, and realized we had clients I didn’t even know existed. My manager was just quietly handling 100% of the work for all their projects, and I never knew because I wasn’t needed. It’s possible your office manager isn’t handling as much as you two are, but it’s also really possible that she’s just handling things you’re never read in on, because it’s not going to affect you or your job and would just be a distraction.

      1. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

        well I am glad it’s not just me with the doubts!

        we do have a dedicated HR person who does payroll and stuff like that. but maybe she is taking on some other projects that I just don’t know about, like for the firm and not specific attorneys. I just feel like a lot is on our plates, and it can be, well, a lot.

        1. Ostrich Herder*

          Definitely not the only one! I definitely felt that way the most when I was the busiest, too, so I absolutely get it.

          I also just thought about this, but how new is “new” for her position? I do know that it sometimes take a while to transfer all the responsibilities to a new position, some people get prickly and territorial about giving up “their” stuff, even if they’re overworked and want things off their plates. So she may have extra time now that will be filled in the coming months, as well!

          1. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

            thank you. :’) I def don’t mean to complain or make it sound like I think she does nothing, because I know that’s not true. but when I had to go wheel a heavy box five blocks with a dolly, on top of that project already being stressful, well…..

            she’s been here for a little over a year, I believe. and I assume that role was in development long before anyone was actually hired!!

        2. Michelle Smith*

          Any chance some of what you’re feeling is a sign that you are ready to move up into a position with more responsibility?

          1. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

            I think this is because for most of my career I’ve been in customer service roles, on the front desks, on phones, while management sits in their offices and makes up policies about stuff without having to deal with things like upset people, or hostile interactions, stuff like that.

            1. Abigail*

              I think it’s really common for people in the admin roles to think the people in the other roles aren’t really working all day.

              I think two things are happening:

              (1) a lot of knowledge work is difficult to see in real time

              (2) there are some people who skate through.

              Either way, I would be extremely sure this attitude isn’t coming out at work.

              1. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

                thank you for this reminder, to have kind of a poker face at work and to NOT let this show. but now that I know that this is actually pretty typical, I feel better. not less stressed, but at least I know I am not working in an atypical law firm or anything like that!!

    2. CTT*

      Seconding Ostrich that there may be things she’s doing that aren’t super-visible. Funnily enough, your description of what she doesn’t do matches what my firm’s office manager doesn’t do, but we’d be lost without her. A good distinction to make is that a law firm office manager can often be a different job from the usual conception of that role. Most firms I have worked at have had an office manager and then other administrators who do the supply ordering, event set up, etc. What the office manager oversees is the office’s financials (money coming in from clients, not anything payroll related), which is the sort of work that really only the office managers and accounting see day to day.

      1. Ostrich Herder*

        This is what I meant by hours, thanks for the law-specific insight! I work in a non-law industry where we bill by the hour, and our office manager (when we had one – long story) was responsible for parsing through all our time tracking, figuring out what to charge clients based on type of work and rate agreements and nonprofit status, who got billed for exact time vs. 15-minute increments vs. being on retainer and just needing it docked from their available time, who paid on net-30 vs. net-60, who was behind on bills, etc. Luckily none of this fell on me when she left, but I know my manager misses her dearly.

    3. M2*

      I would say they probably are getting work from the attorneys and doing other items. I have someone on my team who does this and if here’s an emergency (we are not a law office) we have to deal with it at night or a weekend. There’s a lot of strategy and a lot of (dumb) meetings, etc.

      There is a lot people don’t see that goes on behind the scenes.

      My office was once by a bunch of admins and they always commented on when I came in and left but what they didn’t see was when my child went to bed at 7 PM I was back in the office from 7:15-11 or that when I had to fly and meet a client and they wanted a meeting on a Saturday at 4 I had to fly out Saturday or Friday night and work my entire weekend and no one knew in the admins because I booked it all myself. When my boss, the President emailed or called me on a Saturday and wanted a project completed by Sunday I did it and didn’t bother others since it was their weekend. Did I talk about it? No or only to people on the same kind of level to see if this was happening across departments. But u had busy bodies gossiping so I had to shut it down and I did and then I moved my office.
      I have someone who works for me who again is in that same office area and it’s happening to her. I don’t care when she gets her work done as long as it gets done. Did she leave at 2 Pm the other day? Yes, but she also worked until 11 PM at an event last week no that none of those people knew about. But she’s getting the same stuff I was getting too even though she does excellent work. They have to work 8:30-5 so they expect everyone else to work 8:30-5 not knowing that most of us work a lot longer than those hours!

    4. Another Lawyer*

      I think that’s the type of job that can vary a lot between firms/offices. In my experience, larger firms have an “office administrator” or something similar who serves as the person running the non-legal aspects of the office. They might oversee the non-legal staff in the office (hiring, firing, supervision, etc.), deal with logistics, finances and budgets, etc. They may also deal with issues and projects as they come in, like construction, office moves, the office’s landlord, etc. It can be a big job. (But, of course, that doesn’t mean your boss is responsible for all of this at your firm.)

      1. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

        ok, that makes sense! we have an office administrator AND office manager…. I know we have offices in other cities, which we in the main office often pick up their tasks, but I didn’t think we were that big….

    5. Nola*

      I’m a paralegal with over 20 years experience currently working in a mid-sized law firm and I’ll say this as nicely as I can – you may need to adjust your expectations.

      The tasks you’re complaining about are admin tasks and have been at any firm I worked. I would not expect the office manager to be couriering files, stocking supplies, reshelving files, processing mail, or doing setups/breakdowns. Helping the admins if they’re overloaded one day – sure. But those would not be tasks for the office manager to handle on a regular basis.

      Law firm office managers often do a lot of behind the scene coordination stuff that may not be visible to you and may not even be things you are aware of. There’s often a lot of work that’s part management, part finance, and part smoothing of various egos while trying to make different departments play well together.

      If you and the other admin are overloaded you can let the office manager know. Maybe you need a third admin. But don’t complain about the office manager not doing tasks that are assigned to you when those tasks are not part of her job.

      1. admin who needs to adjust her expectations*

        see this is what i needed, thank you!!! in my experience, granted not in law firms, the office admin(s) did actually do the kind of stuff we do every day. so that’s kind of what i was basing my views off of. again, i do not mean to imply she does nothing, because i know for a fact she does. but i’m getting the sense that law firms are a different beast altogether…. and i am definitely willing to adjust my expectations. i also understand that there are things i am not privy to, which is great as i don’t want to be privy to them.

      2. Strive to Excel*

        I think that in small businesses, the gradient between “office manager” and “office admin” can get blurred or combined. That’s certainly true for the office I’m in now. But if you’ve got a big enough office with an office admin and an office manager, the roles split back apart.

    6. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Our law firm’s office manager’s day is taken up with onboarding lawyers and law students; financial oversight including payroll and the firm’s budget; compliance with recordkeeping rules for our jurisdiction; IT management, whether hardware or software; building security and maintenance; vendor relations; client relations (the long-term, bigger clients), and likely a large number of other things that are under my radar.

      They also supervise and work with the financial manager, who handles client billing, and the administrative assistant manager, who supervises the paralegals and admin assistants.

  53. Student*

    I’m a “geriatric Millennial” who over the summer returned to the workforce as a student in a new field in a hybrid office. My onboarding wasn’t exactly smooth. The traditional college-age student who was supposed to train me was out of his depth; he’d get frazzled and I’d get confused, and he eventually just stopped coming into the office on the days I work. I’ve had to figure out a lot of things by trial and error, but I’ve developed a reputation as a good worker.

    The manager has a goal that each desk have a set of procedures. The students are not assigned tasks individually; it’s essentially a job share. The senior student discovered an app that records a screenshot of every click. Some of these documents are over 100 pages long, including multiple pages of mouse scrolls, and can only be viewed as webpages. I find them difficult to access and hard to follow, yet when I’ve expressed that to the student, he’s doubled down on them. When I made mistakes trying to follow one of the lengthy procedures and asked for feedback about what I did wrong, he just directed me back to the procedure. And on occasion when I’ve asked questions he’s mocked me.

    We are going to be short staffed, so I want to be sure I can keep up with the additional work, but I’m finding it difficult to work with this student and get the information I need. I have been out of the workforce long enough that I don’t know if this app is a thing now and I’m just being old and inflexible for not being able to follow along. I don’t want to be difficult, but shouldn’t documents be user-friendly, especially when they are in-lieu of training?

    2. Reba*

      Oh my glob no, the mouse-tracking app (YIKES) in lieu of actual documentation is not a thing. You need to talk to your manager and explain, diplomatically, that the training docs provided to you aren’t up to the task, the trainer is refusing to help you further, and ask how does she want you to move forward.

    3. Marina Rose*

      Yeah, this is ridiculous. I’ve made instruction guides that include a lot of screenshots, when our software was very finicky and if you clicked the wrong option, it could have huge repercussions (university housing assignments). That being said, I would only screenshot what was necessary, circled or highlighted the option, and included text instructions between to give context. It would be ridiculous to include every click and mouse scroll.

      That document was more of a “if I wasn’t here, I want someone who hasn’t done this before to be able to do this task” but it was a high turnover environment. It was there as a reference but I worked one-on-one with the folks I was training in person (or screen-sharing) for more dialogue and, actual training.

    4. Aerin*

      I’m an ops trainer at my org and also have a hand in keeping our knowledge base up to date. I constantly stress with new hires that if they find an article that’s incorrect, misleading, or difficult to parse, please leave feedback. Even if it was a bit of a comprehension fail, in our environment people are usually skimming articles as they try to get at answers quickly, and we need to ensure that they’re working for the people they’re intended to help.

      I’ve never encountered an app like that, although we have used tools that create interactive slideshows with screenshots (and always with the instructions written out alongside) and found those can be easier to follow than regular documents. I think there was a vogue a little while back for documentation having every single step with a full-screen screenshot, and then a general pivot after realizing that just because we didn’t have to print out this monstrosity didn’t mean that it being 300 pages was okay.

      Honestly, the only thing you even need to say is “the student who’s supposed to be training me is mocking me when I have questions,” and they should be removed from the training role immediately. I have learned that even people who are good at doing a job can be terrible at trying to train others to do it, and bad training is worse than no training at all.

    5. I Have RBF*

      Oh, yuck. He’s probably a graphics only learner, and expects everyone to be like the younger kids who need GUIs and no words, only pictures – like they were three.

      I hate that shit with the fire of a thousand suns. No, I don’t want to look at a freaking web page of hundreds of screenshots, I want a written procedure, even if it just says “Go to X link, click Y item on the menu.” I cannot learn anything from a pile of screenshots.

      You have my sympathies, especially if he expects you to look at a pair of screenshots and figure out the difference as the “process”.

  54. Angstrom*

    In the USA, the IRS sets a standard maileage reimbursment rate for business. In 2024 it is $0.67/mile.

    1. Our Business Is Rejoicing*

      As does the CRA in Canada: $0.70/km (for the first 5,000 km; then it’s $0.64/km)

  55. llamasandteapots*

    Here to be a Grumpy McGrumperson…

    Why do so many companies make employees exempt, then refuse to treat them as exempt except for when it benefits the company? I can work oodles of overtime and no one says a word, but the moment I am 15 (yes, 15) minutes under 37.5 hours, I get a ping from HR. Make it make sense!

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      I think “benefits the company” answers your question. (But I know what you mean. I worked somewhere that the management was really, really bad about this! Then a bunch of people were reclassified to hourly, and they were surprised that nobody even tried to work more hours or take on more responsibility.)

    2. ExemptIsAboutOvertime*

      Because exempt doesn’t mean work whatever hours you please, it means work your 40 (or in your case 37.5 – I’m jealous) as a minimum and, as needed, do more. Exempt is about whether you’re entitled to overtime for the extra hours.

    3. allathian*

      You’re exempt, but do you also have flexitime?

      I’m glad I do because it means I can work 45 hours one week and 32 the next, my standard workday is 7 hours 15 minutes, or 36:15 per week. We can also go down to -10 hours in exceptional circumstances. More than 76 hours “overtime” and your boss can order you to take comp time off. If the big OT is more than momentary, it’ll affect the managers performance evaluation for employee resource management unless there’s a really good reason, like one member of the team being on sick leave for several months.

  56. ThinMint*

    A few weeks ago I had asked for advice on how to engage my team in picking a new name. I appreciated all the comments and ended up having them do a word map ahead of our meeting so I could see what words came out on top. From there, I put together 8 options that I presented to them to get us started, as well as some of my guidelines and feedback I’d heard from others about our current team name. For some proposed names, we did ask ChatGPT what a team of that name did so that we could have an outside gauge on if we were in the right area.

    We had great engagement and ended up choosing a name that wasn’t part of the 8, but a combination of words we all felt worked and represented all of us. Feedback to my managers after was that people appreciated being asked and included.

    Overall – a great success! Thank you AAM.

  57. persimmon*

    Here’s a question for you guys –

    A few years ago, I had an internship doing something that’s kind of niche in my degree. It was a great experience, but I ended up taking a job in a slightly different field because the nicheness meant there wasn’t much available.

    I’m now job searching and there’s an opening at the same place I had the internship, and the hiring manager is the guy who was my supervisor for the internship. We’ve been in contact (meeting at conferences, emailing occasionally) since then, so he definitely remembers me.

    The internship is going to be my most relevant experience – I’ve done similar things at other jobs but not quite the same type of work – and I’m not sure how to approach it in my letter, given that I’d be explaining it to a guy who was there.

    It feels awkward to be like “My experience with X comes from my internship at Y in 20XX where I blablabla” when the letter will go to the person at Y who taught me how to do X. But it also feels off to leave out any explanation and just say “Other than coursework, most of my experience with X comes from my internship at Y” and assume he would know what I’m talking about. Am I overthinking this?

    1. Nemy*

      The short answer is yes, you’re overthinking this.

      If you have his cell phone or know his office number, I would just call directly and say “Hi Fergus, I saw that you had a position open for XXX. I think my experience working there as an intern would be helpful. Do you think I would be a fit for the position?”

    2. Cordelia*

      I think you need to approach this the same way as if it was an internal interview – pretend the interviewers have never met you and you need to explain everything. The hiring manager is probably not the only person looking at your application, and the others might not know you. Also it was a few years ago and although he remembers you he might not remember what your specific strengths and achievements were, you need to remind him! It’s not about explaining what the employer does, but what you did when you worked there.

  58. Busy Middle Manager*

    Any unemployed people who are very frustrated on BLS job reports days (if you follow the news, that is).

    At least I have freelance work, but when I do look for a traditional job, I can barely find any listings these days. Anecdotally, and by that, I mean, people working in almost every industry, all I hear is hiring freezes and not replacing people who quit, with a few layoffs.

    Meanwhile, jobs reports often come out saying a billion jobs were created and the media goes nuts and you’re sitting here feeling even more alone and alienated, wondering where all of these jobs are and how can you find one to apply to or interview for.

    Good vibes going out to others who feel gaslit by the “supernova” jobs report today.

    1. Elizabeth West*

      I remember this same kind of whoop-dee-doo the last time I was searching, and then most of the jobs seemed to be customer service positions that didn’t pay much. :{
      If the minimum wage was a living wage, that would be amazing.

    2. Annie Edison*

      Yes, I had very similar thoughts this morning when I saw that headline – it’s not just you

    3. 653-CXK*

      The government (specifically the Federal Reserve) is looking for an excuse to cut interest rates, hence anything that looks good on the jobs scene will encourage them to do so.

      I would bet those jobs that were added were for service jobs that don’t pay a decent wage.

    4. Aglet*

      Plus they may come out with a correction in a few months: Whoops, there were 800 thousand fewer jobs created that month than we reported at the time,,,

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      The jobs reports are totally skewed due to teachers coming back to work from their summer gigs, college students going to back to school from their summer gigs, etc.
      At this point, the jobs reports are just BS

  59. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    Mostly just here to vent: one of my colleagues lied to me, and also is majorly jerking around a junior staff member.

    Andrea has been my peer for a couple of years and we manage two teams within a larger department; a couple of months ago we took on two of their clients as they were swamped and understaffed, as part of this we absorbed one of their junior team members, Tommy. Tommy was told Sandra was still his line manager for topline things but day to day tasks would be assigned by my team, for the time being.

    Tommy has thrived in my team, for s range of reasons – nothing to do with me, all two do with my excellent direct reports. In the meantime, Andrea had a newish starter, Emma, to help their team.

    Notably, Andrea is quite cliquey. Her team is made up of many people she considers good personal friends. Emma is very different, personality wise, from Andrea’s clique, as well as being brand new to the team and office work. But Emma is enthusiastic and wants to learn, plus their role is clearly entry level, expertise is not assumed.

    Tommy in my team has more expertise and also a similar personality to the clique, I’d say. This is relevant as Andrea has been increasingly frustrated with Emma for needing support, even though Andrea is not Emma’s manager – she manages her manager, who unsurprisingly is an old pal of Andrea’s.

    So Andrea keeps telling me that Tommy is confused by the current set up, has been complaining about the arrangement – I take this seriously and talk to Tommy and my team, and hear otherwise. He likes the structure and feels more supported, which he may well just be saying to me because I’m the team lead. But his work is also much better and he has better office attendance, etc.

    So we are planning to do a team restructure. Andrea tells me that Tommy wants to come back to her team. I’m a little taken aback, but also Tommy doesn’t have much of a choice – our boss decided where he would be. Then ahead of the formal announcement of the restructuring, Andrea told Emma that the team is changing and that Emma was leaving Andrea’s team.

    You probably guessed what Andrea’s plan is – move Tommy back to her team and ditch Emma. Thing is,it’s not going to happen, for a range of external reasons, but I’m seething that she would lie to me about what Tommy wants (for the record, I can’t know for sure but have 90% assurance that Tommy never said this from multiple sources) but much more because poor Emma is getting stuffed around. Emma needs training and support, not being treated like she’s a failure and not part of the inner circle. I despite workplace popularity contests and lying, and if Andrea had said to me she just wanted Tommy back I could at least respect that. But I can’t respect this.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      I would take this to your boss, tbh, and outline your concerns (the poor treatment of Emma, the clique-ish behavior, etc.). I’d frame it as an equity issue for entry level staff and making sure they’re all supported.

  60. Mostly just tired*

    Has anyone ever taken a sabbatical from work? I’m feeling incredibly burnt out and exhausted, but also feel stuck on what to do next. Would love to hear anyone’s experiences!

    1. Mad Scientist*

      My friends who are teachers have done this and called it a “gap year”. They were usually still working (one owned a hobby-related business as a side hustle). Some went back to teaching afterwards and others went on to do other things. I’ve also known someone at my company who took extended unpaid leave to hike the Appalachian Trail. It can be done!

      1. Ostrich Herder*

        This! I know from a few friends who have done this that have framed it as being “lucky to have the opportunity” to take a year off for travel/volunteer work/whatever – but they always said it was for a specific thing, and emphasized that it was over now. They sometimes ran into was hiring managers who were suddenly worried that they were going to demand remote work to go back to digital-nomad stuff, or that they’d found their real passion in volunteering. So they just made sure to be clear that whatever they’d set out to do was amazing, and that it was definitively finished, and that they were really excited to get back to their respective career paths. Almost all of them mentioned that their interviewers said something along the lines of “Oh, I wish I could take time off like that!” so you’ll want to have a good response to that in your back pocket, as well!

    2. Sparkly Librarian*

      I am just back from a 3-month break (a formal sabbatical isn’t built into our work culture, but it was a mix of vacation leave, paid family leave, and unpaid leave). I’ve been here 9 years and my main location is undergoing renovation, so it seemed like a good idea to take a longer leave. My family was undergoing a lot of strife around custody of our bonus kid, and I wanted to take the PFL while she was still with us and I was eligible.

      It helped with the burnout! Frankly, it gave me enough time and mental and physical bandwidth to handle all the things I needed to at home — there wasn’t much time that was truly my own or “on vacation” — and it would have been grueling to try to do that while I was working full-time hours. But there was also SOME recuperation time. If you took a whole year I imagine that would balance out – things you want to do and things you need to do.

      It helped me to have a to-do list. I sorted it into things that needed to be done by me, done by someone else, done as a family. Also a few event-specific lists, like what I needed to prep in order to spend a full week on a home project (grocery order, meal prep, outfits, put X in specific place first so it doesn’t get lost) or take the kids camping or have in place for an important court date. I did NOT accomplish everything on the list by the time I went back to work. But if I hadn’t written it down, I wouldn’t have been ready to return because I would have forgotten a lot of little tasks that needed to get done by that date.

      You’ll want an elevator speech for when you return to work (or, as others point out, if you move on to job searching). Everyone asked me, “Oh, you took time off?? Did you go someplace cool?” and instead of saying, “No, mostly I was at home trying to keep my family from imploding — it did not feel like a vacation!!,” I’ve gone with, “Yeah, we went to [notable vacation spot where we spent one week out of the twelve] and did some stuff around the house. It was a nice break after almost a decade! How was your summer?”

    3. Lucky*

      I just finished a ten month career break. We traveled for three months and the rest of the time I did a combination of parenting and low key fun freelance work. It was fabulous. I also had time to work on my health and have a new diagnosis that is totally not life threatening but was definitely affecting my quality of life. I’m on medication that has improved my symptoms. I do feel rested and ready to get back to work (I started my new job last week). I don’t think it has fixed anything for me over the long term – my insomnia kicked right back in with the new job. But I have so many fantastic memories and feel so lucky I could have a great adventure before my kids are all grown up.

    4. allathian*

      My mom took 7 months off work in her mid-50s. She spent most of that time dealing with her mother’s estate and getting used to the idea that she was officially cancer-free after her breast cancer diagnosis at 50.

      I got my first office job as a temp when someone went on a 7-month sabbatical.

    5. ThatOtherClare*

      My Father took a redundancy payout from his public service role and spent the next 2.5 years working as a carpenter. He lost a lot of weight, got a great tan and was healthier and happier than I’d ever seen him. They hired three people to replace him, and after the 2.5 years they begged him to come back, so he said yes. He had a rapid series of promotions, kept all of his health and wellbeing gains, and has told me it was one of the best choices he’s made in his life.

      He said doing something physical and creative for a couple of years made him better at his desk job. He’s always been the smartest person I know, so I’m not sure how that was possible, but he said it so it must be true.

  61. President Pospoise*

    I’m late to the party, but hopefully someone will have some advice for me. What do you do when someone you work with sees you as the BEC (especially if you return the sentiment)?

    I work at a very, very large company, in a regulatory compliance position. I’m a relatively young person in a role with significant influence and visibility for my functional area but with little actual authority. I’m also a subject matter expert in my area, despite my (comparatively) young age. My job requires me to be very visible – leading meetings, trainings, and committees, writing communications and governance documents, contract negotiations, etc. A large part of my job is to be a pleasant and professional communicator – and also to keep those projects and meetings on track.

    My issue is with a coworker in a different reporting chain within the same function, who is nearing retirement and who technically has a higher pay grade, but also has a much narrower scope of work. This person is legitimately an expert in her area. She knows a lot, and I respect her knowledge. However, her communication style is just awful and rude. She’ll monopolize meetings with topics not on the agenda, interrupt people and talk over them, and be dismissive of ideas that are not her own. She does not consider other perspectives when stating her opinion/experience as universal fact – and she’s wrong frequently enough that it’s a problem. At one point earlier this spring, she inserted herself into an important contract negotiation, and in a general meeting with the other side (VERY high level people in the room) derailed the whole thing with some in the weeds detail that was frankly inappropriate. The person leading the negotiation lost his mind and later threatened to remove our whole function from the negotiation because of her behavior – which I had to pass to my boss, who then passed that info to her boss.

    Since then, it’s clear that this woman hates me. She has made false complaints that could be damaging to my reputation (that I had mocked her reporting chain to external people, and that I am dismissive, a know-it-all, and rude on external calls with vendors and maybe with other people too, idk) and her bosses and mine have reviewed and investigated and found no wrongdoing on my side. Both of our bosses see this as a personality conflict. I’ve also asked for feedback from others who have attended these events who have said there’s nothing bad they’ve seen. I worry that she’s started to spread rumors around the community we’re in. I have done my best to pretend like I had heard nothing about how she feels about me, but to be polite and professional (but cautious) in our interactions. I still ask for her feedback and insights where appropriate, so I’m not freezing her out or anything.

    Last week, we were both in an external meeting where she made a statement that would be true from her very narrow perspective but would be catastrophically false if considered for the whole company. I had to gently and professionally (really, I swear – I checked with someone after) correct her. I sent her a quick IM just saying hey, I know you’re right from the perspective of X, but I also have to make sure we’re considering Y and Z, so that’s why I shifted the language in that paragraph… and she just lost it on me over IM. She was saying things like – you’re wrong, you think I don’t know what I’m doing, I don’t want to talk to you, I’m not the only one who thinks you’re terrible – but just generally with a ruder tone.

    I was so taken aback that I just took some time, cooled off a bit, and responded and hour later with a long note with the general gist of hey, I do respect you, but if you don’t want to talk that’s ok – let me or my boss know if there’s an issue that you see and I’ll work to fix it. I showed my boss the exchange and she was blown away by this woman’s lack of professionalism, but I asked her not to address it with the coworker directly. I don’t want her feeling like we’re gossiping about her – even if that’s not what’s happening. My boss thinks that this coworker sees me as too young to be in the visible role I’m in, and that there’s no way I could be competent because she doesn’t know about my professional experience. She also thinks she might be jealous of the stuff I get to do. I don’t know that there’s an easy way to fix that.

    Anyway, I don’t know how to deal with this woman anymore. I’m staying polite and professional (but cautious), just as before. I’m keeping her in my meetings and I’m hoping that if she is spreading rumors, people will consider the source. But I’d love any feedback people can give on stuff I could do to repair this relationship. It may just be unrepairable, but I will likely be working with this person until she retires, and our paths cross frequently.

    1. President Pospoise*

      To clarify – when I’m asking for general feedback on this stuff from others, it’s always ‘hey, I’ve gotten some feedback sharing that I may have a communications approach issue in XYZ situation – have you noticed anything and can you give me feedback?’ I’m not bringing this coworker’s name into this at all (with the exception of discussion the issue with my boss, because she needs to know the full situation/dynamic).

      1. Michelle Smith*

        I’m not sure there is anything you can do, since you’ve shut out the possibility of having it addressed with her directly by someone with the authority to do so. From what you’ve written here, it’s not your behavior that’s the issue. It’s perfectly fine to dislike coworkers, but acting unprofessionally is not fine at all.

        1. Michelle Smith*

          Remember – you can’t control other people’s actions or opinions, just your own. So release yourself from that burden.

    2. Colette*

      Why are you asking your boss not to address it directly? This is something that should be addressed.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Yeah, President Pospoise wrote that “Both of our bosses see this as a personality conflict.” Seems to me like now your boss has seen that it’s not a “personality conflict,” it is the coworker being rude and aggressive.

        I don’t think the relationship can be “repaired” or the coworker can be made to stop being jealous/stop thinking Pospoise is too young/stop thinking Pospoise is incompetent. But I do think having a manager talk to her could make her stop spreading rumors and start being professional in her communications.

        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          This person is already being awful, so Porpoise really has nothing to lose by asking their boss to address their behaviour, especially since the boss has seen written proof of the lack of professionalism. The colleague can dislike Porpoise as much as they want, but they can still treat them with a basic level of professionalism and politeness. If they go nuclear after their behaviour is addressed and HR ultimately has to get involved – well, they can’t say they weren’t warned. This person sounds like someone who simply isn’t going to knock it off without outside intervention.

      2. President Pospoise*

        I’m fine with my boss working with her boss and leadership to address the general issue (and even sharing the details of the IM exchange if that’s what she wants to do) – but I don’t want my boss to call this woman directly and chew her out. My boss outranks her boss, and her boss’s boss, so it would be a really harsh discussion which might damage our groups’ overall relationship.

        2. FashionablyEvil*

          Do you think your boss would call her and chew her out? I would have thought the logical step would be for your boss to call her boss. You can also tell your boss directly: “I want to make sure we maintain an overall good relationship between our groups so I’d really appreciate anything you can do to handle this sensitively.”

          1. President Pospoise*

            Hlao-Roo and FashionablyEvil, I think you’re both right on. It should be a boss-level discussion. There will still be a power imbalance, as my boss is an executive and her bosses are not, but that can’t reasonably be helped without bringing it to her executive’s level which would be overkill without other evidence of wrongdoing. (I don’t think my boss would really chew out my coworker, but she is very direct, and this woman seems to take anything that’s not deference as a insult and seems to thrive on drama.) The suggestion to ask for extra sensitivity is good.

            I worry that she’s doing this sort of thing to others she perceives as ‘less-than’ – she explicitly doesn’t want us talking to her reports without her on copy, so it might not be visible. I do genuinely want her to do well in her role (selfishly, because I’m tired of her doing this disruptive and embarrassing stuff in front of our function, external parties and everyone else), but I think you’re right that I have to just let her hate me, as long as it’s professional. But her leadership should be watching her communication.

            1. MsM*

              I mean, she’s made multiple false complaints that were found to be without merit and nearly lost the company an important contract because she refuses to acknowledge she might not be the ultimate authority on everything. If I were the executive in charge of her, I’d be contemplating reprimanding both your bosses for not taking this more seriously. If dealing with her once and for all causes tension, let that be on her head, not yours.

        3. Ellis Bell*

          Just outright attacking you just isn’t okay though; that’s not a lack of professional polish, or a personality conflict… that’s just very seriously egregious and harmful behaviour that you shouldn’t have to put up with. Before I got to that part it reminded me of two powerful women I used to work with who despised each other because of communication styles; one was very diplomatic but unfocused, the other extremely blunt. One of the women, Thelma was married to a woman who had the same name as her professional adversary, Louise. One day, Professional Louise ticked off Thelma so much, that she sent a text message to wife Louise ranting about what an insufferable know-it-all work Louise was and how she hated having to work with her. You guessed it, the text went to the wrong Louise. Apparently it was a wake up call and they were firm friends by the time I knew them. The big difference is neither would have deliberately sent the other an abusive message! If you don’t want your boss to handle it, (and you’re really entitled to) then you’re going to have to say something yourself because you absolutely cannot let this stand. “I don’t need you to agree with me, or even like me, but I won’t work with someone who attacks me and talks to me like that. What’s really going on?” Or “Being subjected to abuse is a hard no for me and I won’t tolerate it. Given that, how should we proceed from here?” If you don’t get immediate realisation from her though, you’re fully entitled to tell your boss you can’t work with someone this unprofessional and she needs to be addressed.

        4. Tio*

          Your boss should still take a stronger stance with hers, though. It’s one thing to have a “personality conflict”, it’s another to make false reports about someone. That’s a pretty serious issue, and it’s not a personality conflict. It should be treated much like lying directly to her boss.

        5. Potsie*

          Do you really think your boss will disrupt the working relationship between your two groups more than she is damaging (and will continue to damage) that relationship by spewing her nonsense?

          1. President Pospoise*

            The funny thing is that I also work with her bosses a lot and have a very good working relationship, so their investigation was very fair and they seem to have my back with her – though they do not yet know about the IM. However, she is a very valuable SME, so she seems to set her own rules in many ways.

            I’m more worried about damaging the dynamic – think corporate vs. district office with high profits, where the district office doesn’t want corporate messing with their autonomy. Yes, corporate has an obligation to provide oversight and direction, but the district office can make things uncomfortable/stonewall if they feel like corporate is stepping on its toes. Our marching orders are to guide and not demand. It’s not, imo, a great dynamic when we’re talking compliance but it’s also not changing anytime soon.

    4. The Coolest Clown Around*

      Others in this thread have offered suggestions for navigating this with your boss, but to ease some of your other worries about rumors – it’s clear that between the two of you, only you have a reputation for being polite, professional, reliable, and trustworthy. If you continue to maintain that, your reputation will precede you most of the time, and so will hers. Professional people I respect don’t make snap judgements about people they haven’t met based on the statements of someone with a reputation for spreading lies.

  62. Working Parent*

    Parents of school-aged children, what do you do for child care during school breaks, particularly summer? My kid’s school has an awesome before/after school program that they love, but that’s only available during the school year. My MIL helps out currently, but I don’t want to put the strain of full-time care on her during long breaks. I’ll be starting a part-time job soon after being a full-time caregiver, and want to plan ahead for the summer.

    2. trifle*

      Camps. A different camp every week. We used to alternate community centre (inexpensive) camps with premium camps. Also, if you get 3+ weeks holiday, each parent takes a week with the kid – forms closer relationships.

    3. M2*

      Camps! Ask other parents and sign up
      Early and the best and least expensive ones fill up quick. There are a few camps that are excellent but not super expensive in my area but I found that out through other parents, even a simple google didn’t have them come up. My spouse’s job also offered a reduced price camp through a company which I didn’t know about until August because a parent told me- and my spouse had worked at his company for years!

      Ask around as some camps are very expensive. There are also some half day camps and things if you want a reduced price so your MIL only has to do childcare for half the day. I have friends who do a mix of camp and vacation and grandparents watching.

      If you age only working PT then look for camps that are only half day and work during that time.

      Also, ask friends families so you could help with carpool, etc.

    4. ThinMint*

      Camp… and they usually release details in late December, early January, and sign-up for them starts January or February usually.

      Is it exhausting having to think and plan this far ahead? Yes.

      1. Working Parent*

        Thanks! I plan to look into camps. It’s harder because my kid will only be 4 next summer, so too young for many camps.

        1. Rara Avis*

          A lot of the day cares in my area run summer programs that they call “camps” but are really just full-day daycare/preschool with fun themes each week. It is usually easier to find summer care for preschool ages, because bigger kid camps tend to run at times that don’t cover before and after times. (9-noon, 8-3, etc.)

    5. Abigail*

      Check your YMCA or parks and rec, some of them have camps starting at age 4.

      Heads up for preschool aged camp: many of them run abbreviated hours. I think my kids had one that was 8 – 1. If your MIL can pitch in doing some camp runs and gaps between camp and work that would be helpful.

      Good luck! I find the juggle harder with school aged kids than day care.

    6. Ruthie*

      The awesome before/after program that my kids were in also ran day camps in the summer. That worked out great for my kids since they already knew some of the staff and kids. You signed up week-by-week so you don’t have to register for the whole summer if you just need help for a few weeks. This worked great for our family — hope your before/after school program does the same!

    7. Samwise*

      We used to do Parent Camp for the week between the end of summer camps and the start of school. Each parent had all the kids for one day. There had to be some sort of activity — no plopping all the kids in front of the tv all day. Also we all wanted those kids to be tiiiiirrrreeed at the end of the day. So, maybe putt-putt, go to the park, go to the kid museum, bike rides, board games, crafts, whatever.

      This way we each only needed to take one day off from work.

    9. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      The university I worked at had a summer day camp for K-8 that wasn’t limited to children of students and employees and had 2 1/2 day and 1 full day sessions. I used to see the groups of kids playing in the quads or having picnic lunches under the trees.

    10. allathian*

      Camps. Parents don’t take most of their vacation at the same time. It was a rough few years. We were also lucky with grandparents who were both willing and able to care for our son a few days a week.

  63. Ganymede II*

    I returned to work after a layoff and a baby 3 months ago. I had been off work for 9 months.
    The return is harder than I thought it would be. I feel like I got stupider on my time off. I am not as sharp as I used to be. I make stupid mistakes. I miss deadlines. I send the wrong link to an important file in an email to important people. I try to put together systems to avoid slippage – and slippage keeps happening. My manager kindly called me out on it this week – she was great about it, but clearly, she has noticed, it’s not me being a perfectionist.

    This is a job I thought would be a really good match for my skills. I was super eager to do it. The company offers great work-life balance, there is no culture of overwork.

    Questions:
    1) what the eff could be wrong with me? Is it coming back after leave and losing some muscle memory? Do other women experience this after giving birth (I don’t underestimate hormones)? (It’s not my baby – daycare is working well, I have a co-parent I can trust, she’s a happy baby.)

    2) how do I climb up the whole I seem to be digging myself into? I know I can do better than this. I *have* done much better than this in the past.

    3) I know this is a terrible first impression. What can I do in the future to correct it?

    1. M2*

      Don’t send things off right away. Save them as drafts and check them again. Check the link or maybe before you send to all send to yourself and double check the link or attachment.

      If there’s a program or system you can put your work into that helps to check for errors I would look into that- not something that does your work but something that checks for mistakes.

      For deadlines, make it earlier for yourself. If it’s due Friday by 3 have it be due Thursday by 5 PM or Friday by 12 and just put it that way in your calendar with multiple reminders. That way if you forget and you see the reminder you have a little time to do it and not rush.

      Ask your manager to help you prioritize what to get done. I have people on my team who need to (they want to do it it helps them) send me a list daily of what they will get done. Writing it down for some is better than saying it so if it helps then I look it over quickly and if there’s an issue or something can be moved to another day I let them know.

      Talk to your manager and see if they have any insights that might help you. I have people who are visual or auditory learners. See what style works best for you and try to work with that. Good luck!

    2. Ostrich Herder*

      I don’t have much personal insight on 1, so I’ll leave that to people who can say more, but:

      2.) Figure out why it’s happening. You mention slippage, and systems that don’t catch the slippage, so clearly you’re trying hard, but whatever thing or things are at the bottom of this, knowing them is half the battle.

      Are you working too fast? Too slow? Zoning out and then rushing to catch up? Do you spend your time mired down in details that wind up stealing your time from other, more crucial tasks? Do you not know what’s important and what’s not? Are things organized well enough for you to keep files and deadlines straight? Are there tasks you feel less prepared for – or have messed up on in the past – and are now avoiding?

      And it’s likely not just you. What external factors are playing into this? How does this compare to teams you’ve worked on in the past? To projects you’ve worked on in the past? You may or may not be different, but the job definitely is, and figuring out how it’s different might help you figure out how to tackle it.

      3.) I think Alison’s usual advice boils down to “say you’re taking it seriously, show you’re taking it seriously, and then take it seriously” and that should work here, too!

    3. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      This is hard to go through! I have never had a baby so I can’t really speak to the why it’s happening, but I do have a lifetime of ADHD and I have found that all the techniques I use to manage also help my friends who are pregnant or entering menopause.

      M2 is right – don’t respond too quickly to anything. Write your response quickly but leave it in the drafts. My muscle memory is such that I sometimes have to disconnect from the internet to keep from automatically hitting send, but only as long as it takes to break the habit, not forever.

      I have found that when the deadline is doesn’t really matter and making it earlier or later doesn’t have an impact. I’ve had more success scheduling a time to co-work with someone else. We both work quietly on our own things but just sit together and say at the start what we’re working on. There’s also a service called Focusmate that does this virutally. Knowing that I only have this 1 hour to complete the task makes it a lot easier to get done on time; knowing that I only have to work on it during the meeting time makes me less likely to avoid it.

      The most important thing, though, is not storing anything in my brain. My brain’s capacity to process and store information is limited so it’s really important that I clean everything out of it as often as possible. It’s not perfect; I’ll write things down or save them in the most random places. But even when I forget something, I’ve freed enough space in my brain that I can still think clearly most of the time.

      None of these may apply to you but it’s helped some friends of mine who have gone through a similar thing! Also check out the Anti-Planner for other tools.

    4. No Tribble At All*

      Are you sleeping well enough? Are you sick? I had a month of absolute disasters at work, and it turned out I had covid and had been pushing through it. Baby kept bringing home germs from daycare.

    5. Jane*

      You’ve been through three really stressful things in the last 9-ish months (layoff, job hunting, baby having). Plus your life is completely different than it was the last time you were working (babies are cute, but they change things). It’s no surprise things are harder than they were.

      I’m not sure what a solution is, but consider some therapy visits if that’s an option. At the very least it would help you wrap your head around the problem, and make sure you’re not stressing yourself out (which will only lead to more mistakes).

    6. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      Be kind to yourself and try to maintain as much optimism as you can. Most if not all of it will come back in time, but you won’t accelerate the process by trying to hold yourself accountable to perfection or becoming pessimistic.

      Just try to be a better version of yourself today than you were yesterday, this week than you were last week, etc. It’ll come.

    7. Double A*

      Having a baby literally rewires your brain. (There’s a book called “Mother Brain” on this topic). I also had to find a new job when my first baby was about 4 months old, and in the moment I was like, “I’m okay, I’m normal,” in retrospect I was at like… 60-70% capacity at best. The good news is that it gets better. I actually feel sharper than ever now that my kids are older.

      As to what to do right now, I think an honest conversation with your boss is worth it, not about the baby causing this specifically, but just that you’re not adapting and ramping up as quickly as you traditionally have. Take some time to think about possible solutions for the issues you’ve been having. And if there are some external supports you could use, bring those to your boss. It’s okay to say you’re needing more time than you thought to ramp up and transition back into work!

    8. Alex*

      Mommy brain is a real physiological thing. Be kind to yourself. You’re trying to learn something new at a time when your brain is otherwise occupied. It’s tough! It will get easier.

    9. Happy Camper*

      As someone who has kids. They do make you stupider. The hormones affect your brain and redirect some of the power to the smart part of your brain to the nurture part of your brain. (Yes really, there are tons of studies on it) So give yourself grace!

    11. sigh*

      You went through a major life change. You have a 3mo baby. Even happy babies are a lot of work ! If you are breastfeeding, you have a giant metabolic load on top of the sleep deprivation and hormones.

    12. Rara Avis*

      Sleep deprivation makes you stupid. No, really. Your baby is only 3 months old. It is really hard to parent and work, and something has to give.

      1. ThatOtherClare*

        This is the correct answer. You can be getting the right number of ‘hours’, but if you haven’t had had the right number of full uninterrupted cycles then you still haven’t had enough sleep.

        A cycle is about 90 minutes. So if you get 3 hours sleep, 1 hour awake, 3 hours sleep, that’s 4 cycles in 7 hours. Whereas if you get 4 hours of sleep, 1 hour awake awake, 2 hours of sleep, that seems like a longer uninterrupted chunk, but it’s only 3 cycles.

        It’s not just a new parent thing, kitten foster families, night shift workers, people in hospital etc have the same problems. You’re not alone.

    13. JustaTech*

      1) yes, good gravy yes. Your brain literally got re-wired and I bet you’re not getting much sleep at all, and what you’re getting is all broken from getting up 2-3 times a night (yeah?).
      I thought I was OK when I went back to my job at 4 months – it was reasonably slow, nothing significant changed while I was out, but looking back I was absolutely only running at about 60-70% for the first few months.

      One thing that will help on the brain/baby front will be getting more sleep, which will come! But it will also take time (since you baby needs to grow into sleeping longer stretches).

      Here’s how I explained the baby brain fog for the first month-ish after my kiddo was born: it was like I had forgotten my ADHD meds and I had no coffee, except that I had taken my meds and I’d drunk my coffee.

      Other folks have good suggestions for work, but yes, your brain and your body are still recovering/re-wiring and you are sleep deprived. It’s hard to do an easy job you know then, let alone start a new one!

    15. Ellis Bell*

      Sounds so much like ADHD; I would check out the advice on ADHD websites because they’re so useful for other issues with organisation and mind fog. For mistakes, proof read out loud. For some reason some kind of mini break before proofreading, like getting a drink or singing a song helps. If you’re used to going a million miles an hour, slow down. Try Pomodoro. Lists are your friend. Write down all to-dos and frequently revisit the priority by numbering what you can realistically do that day. Don’t just trust your brain to remember, you’ll get distracted. Use others if you can. I personally always check my attachments by opening them before I send them, I’ve been wrong that often.

    16. Synaptically Unique*

      First, it is absolutely true that many (most even?) women struggle during pregnancy and postpartum. Memory declines, stamina tanks, and general togetherness is less. The good news is that it usually resolves within the first year. You can look at it as 9 months to grow a whole human being and 9 months to recover from growing a whole human being.
      That said, calendar reminders are your friend? Put everything on your calendar. Set reminders for as far out as you need them. You can build a delay into your messages if you’re using Outlook. This only helps if the mistakes are the kind that you realize just as you hit “send” because you can retrieve them and fix them. If the problems aren’t things you are catching when they happen, the send delay won’t help and it’s incredibly irritating in other ways, so ymmv.
      As for resetting your work relationship, I would suggest going to your boss, explaining that you’ve been struggling and haven’t been working at the level you’ve always maintained in the past, but also laying out the the steps you are taking to address the lapses. Ask her for guidance on other things that might help and make sure she knows you’re committing to doing better. You aren’t telling her anything she doesn’t already know, but owning it and having a plan on resolving it will go a long way to improving her opinion of you. Good luck!

    17. Chauncy Gardener*

      It will be OK! Baby brain is very real and please cut yourself some slack. You still have tons of hormones messing with your head and I’m sure your sleep pattern isn’t exactly what it used to be either.
      I was as dumb as a box of rocks when I got back from maternity leave. My brain eventually came back, but I had to add a lot of checks and balances to my workday to ensure I didn’t miss things.
      Good luck!

  64. Seal*

    My colleagues and I – all of whom are mid- to late-career managers – have been debating whether or not candidates should ask for accommodations for the interview itself. Our HR department handles all the communication with the candidates, which includes boilerplate language asking if the candidate needs any accommodations to participate in the interview (e.g. mobility issues and can’t walk long distances or use stairs, etc.); If the interview schedule includes a meal, candidates are asked if they have any food preferences or restrictions. While most of the requests are dietary, we of course accommodate all requests received.

    However, many of us have had hired candidates who told us after they started that they were dealing with health issues or hidden disabilities during their interview, but didn’t want to ask for an accommodation because they thought it would hurt their chances. We’ve also had candidates who are clearly unwell or noticably in pain during their interview, but insist they’re fine when asked if they need anything (this happens far less often since the pandemic – we rarely have a candidate who’s powering through a cold these days).

    This seems to be a gray area for me and colleagues, and especially friends who work in other industries. Everyone is happy to make accommodations on request to ensure the candidate has a good interview experience. But many of these same people would be very reluctant to ask for an accommodation when THEY are the candidate themselves, unless it’s something they absolutely can’t hide. Having had a few injuries and surgeries myself and having helped friends and family recover from the same, I know it can take months to fully recover. I also know that unconscious bias is very much an issue for those with disabilities. So I wonder – is it better to ask for an accommodation for a hidden or short term disability or power through and hope for the best?

    1. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      It depends!

      If you are in the luxurious position of exploring other opportunities because you want to and not because you’re unemployed or your current role is too toxic/low-paying to continue, then you absolutely should ask for that accommodation.

      If you really can’t afford to risk the opportunity on bias, you gotta power through. The bias is real and pervasive enough that you can’t really write it off as “you don’t want to work at a place that doesn’t provide accommodations anyway” because so, so many of them don’t. And even if the company is accommodating once you’re actually employed, a lot of interview processes and participants have unconscious biases built in. It’s just not worth the risk.

    2. TCO*

      It’s a tough question.

      I haven’t been in the position of needing accommodations in an interview, but if it were to happen to me in the future, I think I’d be weighing how seriously I need the accommodation. Can I power through the interview knowing that the mental or physical pain/discomfort will be temporary? Or will it be so overpowering that I won’t be able to do as good of a job interviewing as I could with an accommodation?

      It might also depend on whether the condition is temporary or ongoing, and how much it may be perceived (fair or not) as affecting my ability to excel at the job. Sharing that I’m temporarily using a knee scooter in an interview for a desk job would be different than sharing an ongoing significant anxiety disorder, for instance. And maybe I want to use the interview as a test of how well they would accommodate my future needs as an employee.

      I agree that my thinking might also be influenced by how badly I need/want this job, as well as how badly I perceive them as wanting me. If I feel like I have more power (I’m a really strong candidate, or maybe it’s a situation where they already know me), I would probably be more likely to make requests.

    3. WontDisclose*

      I am multiply disabled and been on both sides of the interviewing table many times. I will not disclose unless it’s absolutely unavoidable and I resent companies that make it unavoidable because of some arbitrary decision they make. I would find the “please ask for accomodations” note difficult to navigate because it feels like I’ll get dinged later if I don’t disclose up front.

      The problem is that I’ve never once gotten any job where I either disclosed or, for some reason, the interviewer figured out I had or likely had a disability. Not once. And yet, I’ve never had a job where my disability ended up being a real problem (I have bowed out of a very small number of jobs when it became apparent that my disability would interfere with a core requirement – but that’s part of what I investigate during interviews).

    4. Mimmy*

      Disability disclosure can be a very difficult decision. Interviewees should not be made to feel that they HAVE to request an accommodation. Yes, employers are required to provide a reasonable accommodation for an interview if requested and it is good practice to invite accommodation requests. However, it should not be held against the interviewee if they don’t.

  65. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

    Mostly just complaining – 80% of my work right now is unable to move forward until I get responses/information/decisions/directives from leadership and I am extremely frustrated by it. My to do list is so long and I can’t seem to knock anything fully off of it. This is the lowest stakes thing but dragging these tasks around that never seem to go away despite how seemingly simple they are really does bring my morale down sometimes.

    Anyone want to commiserate?

    1. I feel you*

      Do you and I work at the same place? The only coping strategy I have been able to adopt is to care less. If leadership doesn’t care that performance is stalled by their leisurely approach to doing their jobs, then I have to try to invest less emotionally in the work. What else can we do?

    2. Rage*

      I have this too. It’s difficult sometimes because when *I* am told to make something a priority by my boss (an executive), and other executives hold up the process, it makes me look like I’m not doing my job.

      I’m learning to remind myself that just because it’s MY priority doesn’t mean it’s THEIRS. And if my boss isn’t happy, then I will escalate it to her and she can take it up with them. I don’t have to fight that fight.

      Of course, I do my own due diligence about reminders (2 emails and 1 Teams message) before escalating it, so I can say I tried. And then…it’s my boss’s problem. I put a reminder on my calendar to follow up every week or two with her, but otherwise I just put it in the “on hold” file.

      Yeah, it drives me batty that so many projects sit on hold, but it’s no longer my problem. Just reminding myself of that helps quite a bit sometimes. It helps, of course, that my boss and grandboss are super great to work for and won’t take it out on me if one of their same level colleagues is dropping the ball (or simply has their own priority).

    3. JulieBulie*

      That is my lot in life as well. I’ve got five balls in the air right now, which is 4.5 more balls than I can really handle. Very often, things are red-hot “urgent” when I get them, but when it comes time for reviews and approvals, I just wait and wait and wait.

  66. anonymous higher ed person*

    I am organizing an event for an external professional organization in my field. I invited one of my colleagues to be a panelist. She is on an adjacent team, does really great work, and is a very up-and-coming sort of person.

    I wanted to give her the opportunity to present at an industry event and thought it’d be great to collaborate more.

    I don’t think it’s malicious, but she’s kind of taking over my event. She scheduled the first planning meeting without asking me. At first that seemed ok to let it go because seemed excited about it.

    This week, she shared info about the event on LinkedIn, she has the “right” to do so as registration has opened. However, I’m working on the official post from our official account, and I feel like she stole my thunder. I wanted that post to be the one that gets shared around and hers also is missing other external folks that are working on the other parts of the event I wanted to acknowledge.

    I have another colleague who does stuff like this, but he has a ridiculously huge ego, and also steals credit and oversteps a LOT!

    I think my experience with the latter colleague is making this feel more icky than it is, but I’d love a second opinion.

    Both colleagues are younger than me, and I don’t want to be all “kids these days,” but I’m wondering if in this specific instance there might be some generational differences? I’ve heard some millennials talk outside of work or in social media etc. about how they’ve done everything, like “I started a small business on the side, designed the website, did all the marketing, finance, etc. etc.” This can sound impressive until you realize that’s a lot for one person, and maybe they’re not doing all of those things well. I also know there’s lots of cultural pressure on younger folks that they’re supposed to magically be perfect at everything on the first try, etc. Maybe that’s a contributing factor?

    Either way, how can I tell her to stay in her lane a bit while not deflating her enthusiasm and not getting to a BEC stage myself? I envisioned us all collaborating on this (there are a couple other panelists from my company, too.) I’m starting to feel twinges of regret inviting her to collaborate and I’d rather keep our relationship positive. She’s been a fabulous colleague otherwise.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      I’d do the, “I’m so glad to have you on the team! I wanted to share some next steps and key milestones with you so that we’re on the same page about who’s doing what and when,” and then lay things out. You can also use that time to say things like, “And we handle this part of the event like this because Reasons” and “This person is a VIP, so we want to make sure she gets the invitation first,” etc.

      Yeah, it’s annoying, but see if you can correct the problem by just squaring up on the process before making it a Thing. (I have a colleague who did this to me last week and got us in a bit of hot water as a result, so I feel your pain!)

      1. MsM*

        Yeah, I think this is just overenthusiasm, and as long as she knows there is a process and you need her to ask you if there’s any confusion as to where she fits into all that, she’ll stop jumping the gun. You can probably get out ahead of that if you find yourself in a similar situation again by doing a little more setting of expectations and laying out the timeline/point people before things kick off.

    2. WellRed*

      Speak up. I don’t understand why she thinks she’s event planning when you’ve only asked her to be a panelist.

      1. anonymous higher ed person*

        Thanks all, this is helpful! I am planning to talk to her, just wanted to get some ideas before I approach her. I’ve had a hectic week and the event is a few months away, so it’s not extremely urgent.

      2. anonymous higher ed person*

        ETA: I was surprised by this because I would never do this myself, and would keep the organizer in the loop, like, “Hey do you mind if I help plan the meetings?” or even letting me know she was sharing her own post. We are connected on Linkedin but not everyone reads it constantly (like me lol.)

        Now that I’m thinking of it, it could be that it’s an ask vs. guess culture thing, too. I’m an ask person.

  67. Anon for this*

    A friend was too shy to post here, even anonymously, so I’m doing this for her.

    She is in the process of converting to Judaism and wants to be observant, which means getting off early each Friday. She has been in the same office job for a number of years and was wondering if anyone could share how you went about requesting religious accommodations when you’ve been at the same job for while. Any challenges?

    Thank you.

    1. spcepickle*

      I have a person who reports to me who is an observant Muslim who wanted Friday 12-2pm off for prayers. For us it was really easy to present two options – 1) He works 9 hours M-Th and then 4 hours on Friday getting off at noon. 2) He just takes a long lunch break on Friday we let him chose an extra 15 min M-Thur to make up the hour or an extra hour on Friday. Nobody batted an eye at the request. If you friend is an office worker or someone who does not need coverage getting set up with a schedule that lets her leave early every Friday but get in her 40 hours should be very doable. I am not sure how early she wants to leave but like a 1/3 of my team has a 6am – 2:30 pm schedule everyday as another option, I also have a hand full of people who work 4 days a week 10 hours a day.

      The only think I would be cautious of – You can’t accommodate away a job requirement (even for religion). So if your friend is say a teacher, TSA agent, or nurse – something that has a schedule that requires coverage this gets trickier. It may be possible to get set up on a schedule that always gets Friday afternoon’s off but she may need to be willing to trade for something other consider less desirable – So a Sun – Thur schedule or a really early morning. But it also might just not be possible and then she would need to consider the job vs her faith.

      She knows her work place best, so I would suggest she have an idea of what schedule would work for her AND would make sense where she works and just have her present it to her boss. So hey boss I have had some things in my personal life change and I would really like to switch to this schedule as I really need to be able to leave work by 2pm on Fridays (or whatever). Can we make that work? I would only start pursing an actual accommedation if the boss was a jerk AND having a flex schedule made business sense.

      1. Strive to Excel*

        Can confirm, being willing to take on a ‘less desirable’ shift is going to make a lot of difference. The same is true for holidays. While this isn’t the same, I have a family member who gets Christmas off every year because she’s willing to work on Thanksgiving and/or New Year’s, so she can easily find someone to coordinate with (she works in a role that require 24/7 coverage year-round).

    2. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I’ve worked with lots of people who are definitely observant (including several women who dressed wrist to ankles daily and covered their hair after marriage, attended services several times a week, etc.) and never had any of them want off early every Friday? For holidays, definitely, but weekly? Of course those have all been office jobs, with no evening hours needed.
      I suspect the hardest part might be getting people who, like me, who have never seen that ask before, to understand why she needs it when others of the same faith who are also observant and make arrangements for holidays, etc. don’t do that every week. And of course, the others in the office who wonder why SHE “gets to start the weekend early” (because that will be the perception) every week while they have to work until closing. Being open about her conversion would help but also shouldn’t be necessary, as religion is so personal.
      It’s a bit tricky, for sure, but she should be able to go to HR and frame it as a change in her life, because it is a change in her life. If she can suggest a plan (like working 7-3 on Fridays instead of working 9-5, etc) for making it work that would probably help, too.

      1. ShabbatHours*

        In many places in the US sundown is well before 5pm during the winter; anyone who is observant would need to leave early to be home before sundown – and that assumes someone else is prepping for Shabbat which has to be completed before sundown.

        Perhaps you live in the western portions of your timezone where this would be a little less of an issue, especially if the people in question are working from home and therefore don’t need to factor in travel time.

        In some heavily Jewish parts of NYC schools only run until noon on Fridays and then have another half day on Sundays to make five full days of school. The expectation is everyone’s preparing for Shabbat Friday afternoons.

        So yes, best case scenario is some months of leaving at 3 or maybe 4 and other months when 5 might be okay, but that may not be sufficient, especially if there’s any type of real commute involved.

    3. TCO*

      I’m just chiming in to share that this would not be a big deal at all at my workplace. While folks here generally work traditional office hours, there is a lot of variation and flexibility. In my office, it would be as simple as saying to a supervisor: “I’ve started observing a religion that means I need to be home on Fridays X hours (however much time your friend needs for preparations) before sunset (or “at X time” if sunset doesn’t change seasonally where they live). I need to change my schedule to accommodate that, and I propose I make up those hours by doing Y. Would that work okay?”

      If your friend feels safe sharing that it’s a religious need, I think that’s important to state right away. In my office, that would help frame this as “this is a necessity (and something we are legally required to try to accommodate)” instead of “this would be nice to have whenever possible.” That makes a clearer boundary and closes off the possibility of asking the employee for occasional flexibility when that’s not really appropriate.

      It may feel strange to her to adopt this new faith practice after working somewhere for many years, but many employers wouldn’t see it that way. If she has a track record of being reliable and diligent, a reasonable employer isn’t going to think she’s suddenly pulling some new trick to start her weekends early. It’s not weird for longtime employees to have life changes that affect their work schedule–think of a parent whose kids’ school schedule changes, or someone who needs a new standing medical appointment, or someone who moves and has a different commute now.

      For your friend, this is a significant life change–but she might be overestimating how significant it is to her employer. Maybe your friend is nervous because they know that it’s going to be more difficult at their workplace–more structured or coverage-based shifts, or not supportive of diversity and individuality, or whatever. But I also want to say that there are many workplaces where this isn’t going to be a huge issue, and if she’s fortunate, she may already work at one.

    4. Friday Person*

      Looks like you’ve gotten some useful advice here but if your friend is hoping for additional perspectives, I’d suggest reposting this after the High Holy Days, since a lot of highly observant Jews were likely offline/in services today.

  68. Adam*

    The job search is obviously incredibly difficult right now, but I believe I have a tactic that will set me apart and put my resume right in front of the hiring managers and recruiters of my choice:

    I’m mailing in my resume and cover letter.

    Yes, I’m going full 1991 and using the postal service, and I’ll bet I’m the only one. First application went in the mail today for a highly targeted (and likely oversaturated with online applications) role with a major company.

    The hiring manager posted the role on LinkedIn and I’m an amazing match. I have zero faith in the HR application system, so let’s see how this goes. I plan to send off another 10 or so over the weekend, so hopefully in the next 2 weeks I’ll have some kind of result.

    I figure I have nothing but postage to lose by trying it out, and I’m applying online anyway so my info is in their hiring system either way.

    What do you think? Effective, or just annoying?

    1. Bookworm*

      Yes, so 1991! :) That’s definitely a different tactic. You will have to let us know how it works out and if anyone makes any comments specifically about snail mailed resumes!

    2. TCO*

      I wouldn’t do it.

      With how dispersed the workforce can be these days, do you know that the hiring manager will even see the mail?

      When I hire, it’s a mark against a candidate, not one in their favor, when they don’t follow the clear, simple application process outlined in the posting. If someone is relying on “one sweet trick” to get hired, I’ll wonder why they don’t see themselves as able to stand out via the normal hiring process.

      In my organization, the hiring manager also doesn’t see applications first by design. The applications are anonymized (partially redacted) by another employee to reduce bias in hiring. Seeing a full unredacted resume kind of ruins that process (though of course sometimes applications come in from known parties who we recognize even with their names removed, so it’s not perfect).

    3. Colette*

      It’s been at least 15 years since I’ve checked the physical mail at work, so I doubt this will be effectiv e unless you are applying for a mailroom job.

    4. CTT*

      I would not do it – someone will have to input your information into their system if you bypass it, and there’s a big risk they won’t do it, either because they’re too busy, or they think it’s a red flag that don’t follow directions, or they genuinely mean to but forget.

      1. Adam*

        I understand, which is why I made sure to also apply online and point that out in the cover letter.

        1. pally*

          Okay- it’s good that you are also following their preferred method of acquiring job candidates for the position. So they can’t fault you for not following their directions on how to apply for the position.

          Hopefully the postal mailed resume will be opened and read by the hiring manager. And they will then look for your online application and things will work out for you.

    5. bamcheeks*

      Back in 2000 it was my job to photocopy the applications for distribution to the hiring panel. I wonder whether anyone has that job these days.

    6. Ginger Cat Lady*

      100% annoying. You’ll stand out for sure, but not in a good way. In a “can’t follow instructions” way.

    7. Fastnachts at 110 mph*

      I vividly remember the fine ‘resume’ linen paper and matching envelopes I purchased in 2000 after college graduation. I, too, mailed them and often drove them to the locations.

      These days, the hiring entities need their information in a database. I hate to give you a papercut on that fine ‘resume’ linen paper but the odds are against you. It’s annoying if you’re a good fit but they don’t want to manually enter your data. Effective in giving them a memory from their analog hiring days (if they’re old enough to have had one).

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Ahh, I remember that paper. I had envelopes to match too. When I was packing my house to move, I donated it to the thrift store.

        Even fast food places send you to their websites these days. So many places have gone paperless; it’s just easier to import data that’s come in over an online system.

    8. ecnaseener*

      Just annoying, I’m afraid :) It’s good that you’re also applying online, but I don’t think that means you have nothing to lose here – you run the risk of annoying the hiring manager enough that they recognize your name in the system, in a bad way. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a realistic chance of any hiring manager being impressed enough by this stunt that they go find you in the system and move you up in line.

      Because, well, what exactly would you be hoping to impress them with? The quaintness of it all? If you’re hoping it’ll show commitment, I think that kind of backfires because sticking your resume in an envelope and mailing it is easier than filling out most online applications. So it doesn’t read as “going the extra mile,” it reads as “trying to circumvent our processes because he can’t be bothered and doesn’t like to follow directions.”

    9. M2*

      I had someone do this once- sent their resume, cover letter, and a note directly to me at my office. It rubbed me the wrong way and made me uncomfortable, so when I saw their information in the HR system, they did not end up making the initial cut.

      I would not do this for roles you really want. Maybe someone will like this, but I found it really strange.

      It would be much better to tailor your resume, write a great cover letter, apply early, network, and diversify where you apply. So many people apply for roles they think they are qualified for, but aren’t. Totally fine to do that, but also apply for roles that are lateral moves or even some that might be a step down if you are changing careers.

      I have written this before but I have had Director level roles available and stated in the description must have a minimum of 2 years of senior- level experience and I received so many resumes where people had not even been Managers or Associate Directors. Unfortunately they weren’t qualified and I had other roles up that they would have been qualified for, but they didn’t apply to. So diversify your applicants and apply within the first 14 days something is posted if you are able.

    10. spcepickle*

      If you were applying for my jobs not effective at all. All our jobs get in an on-line portal that only HR has access to. They release a batch of applicants all at once to the hiring manager, and those are the the only applications I am allowed to consider. If I got a resume in the mail I would be so confused and just toss it. And that is IF I got it. With all the remote work chances are it gets to some central mailroom, sits forever, because who gets anything mailed to them anymore, maybe gets opened by our mailroom person and scanned to me (but only if you can figure out the actual hiring manager and not the generic HR person listed on most of our postings) – at which point you just wasted several peoples time just for me to toss it.

      Way better to work your network, ask people to put in good words for you, make personal connections. But if you are committed as you say, just costing you the cost of postage and most likely not hurting you (as long as it is just a resume and cover letter – not like glitter or anything).

    12. WantonSeedStitch*

      As a hiring manager, it would irk me. It’s gimmicky and does not demonstrate anything that would make you a better candidate. Might I remember your name when I came across it in the electronic applications? Sure. Would I remember it positively? No.

    13. WorkerDrone*

      When I was a hiring manager (not anymore), I would have found it annoying at best and an active mark against you at worst. The instructions we used were clear – apply through the online system. If I got a resume and cover letter in the mail, I would at first be deeply puzzled and then assume that the person was incapable of using the internet – and thus immediately be disinterested in hiring them.

      Once I realized you also applied online I’d be even more puzzled, because why are you wasting both of our time with a paper resume and cover letter that is neither wanted nor needed? It’s literally just trash mailed to me. I wouldn’t save it, or read the paper copy, or do anything with it but toss it in recycling.

      I think you have more to lose here than postage. I’d be concerned this was an applicant that didn’t follow directions. I’d be concerned this was an applicant that didn’t really mind wasting time or resources on silly things like this. I’d be concerned this was an applicant who did not understand our workplace norms if they thought this would put their resume in front of me (as opposed to in the recycling).

      It would NOT stop me from interviewing a very strong candidate, but it would give me concerns. It might stop me from interviewing a candidate I wasn’t sure about, assuming I had other strong candidates.

      1. MsM*

        +1. Ultimately, I’m going to need the resume to end up in electronic form anyway so I can circulate it. Your credentials are not necessarily going to be outweighed by my annoyance at scanning it and only then discovering I didn’t need to do that, but it’s not going to help.

    14. Unkempt Flatware*

      Ineffective and shows lack of judgement. I’d assume you didn’t know how to use a computer and would put you in the “never” category.

    15. Cordelia*

      Annoying and pointless, I’m afraid. If we received an application by mail, when we had a clearly set out online application process, we would throw it away without reading.
      There is no version of this scenario in which the jaded hiring manager, exhausted from staring at all the online applications on her screen, gets passed a paper application by her secretary and is immediately wowed by the gumption, out-of-the-box thinking and general brilliance of the person who has sent it. Sorry.

    16. Hiring Mgr*

      It wouldn’t bother or annoy me personally, but it wouldn’t improve your chances either. I wouldn’t really care about the “not following directions” part but YMMV on that.

      What I might do instead: Since you know who the hiring manager is, maybe you have some LinkedIn connections in common that could help you with an intro or some intel?

    17. Bast*

      When I was in a management role, we typically used Indeed and similar sites to find and review candidates. If someone had done that and mailed their resume in, it would seem very odd and out of touch. As to whether it would change whether or not you would be interviewed… it depends. Since you submitted online AND mailed the letter in, I might wonder why you bothered duplicating efforts. It would not keep me from interviewing a particularly strong candidate, but the candidate pool changed a lot each time we were hiring. A few weeks ago, I read a comment on here that someone mentioned that in some hiring cycles, their top candidate was someone who would not even have been in interviewed in another cycle. This applies here. If the candidate pool was thin and you were one of the stronger applicants, you might still get an interview. If the candidate pool were larger and strong, I’d probably skip, because there were plenty of other strong applicants that applied how we asked. And… I hate to say this, but you may come off as “the annoying guy who wants to do things his own way.” In some industries and companies, this would be a strike against you.

    18. Tio*

      Annoying.

      Honestly, if I got a mailed in resume, I would put it straight in the trash. Plus, for companies like mine that go through our recruiting team, you might not even be sending it to the right person. I’m not going to hunt you or them down to try and get you to go through the correct process.

    19. Adam*

      Given the responses, I’m pretty sure I did not explain this concept nearly well enough. I promise you, it’s not nearly as bad an idea as I apparently made it sound!

      After all, if I told you that I have an idea that I’m going to pick up the phone and call you to try and sell you something, 100 out of 100 responses would say that it’s a terrible idea, never never never do that, it will never work, everyone will hate it. And yet, the sales profession persists successfully.

      I promise you, what I’m doing is far more than a junk mailer. This is a highly segmented, targeted, positioned approach, only going to the most specific people and roles where I genuinely believe and explain precisely how I solve the problem that the hiring manager and company want solved. Dale Carnegie would be proud.

      Some comments suggest that any deviation from the “just apply online” process is an automatic NO – I’d like to remind you that networking, the gold standard for job hunting, is a significant deviation from the “just apply online” process. What I’m doing isn’t all that different, all while still applying online.

      I have a shortlist I’m working from this weekend. I’ll give it two weeks and report back on that week’s open thread. Whether this idea is effective or not, I’ll let you know. But again – I don’t think it’s as bad as most of you are imagining.

      1. hmm*

        Perhaps you can try to explain this better? Reading your post and the comments, it sounds like you asked for advice and then dismissed it because it’s not the answer you wanted. I want to follow the site rules and give you the benefit of the doubt.

        How is what you’re doing different than just mailing your resume? Are you including something else with it?

        I think it’s an amusing idea, and might get a kick out of it as the recipient, but I agree with the other commenters that it does feel gimmicky and it wouldn’t sway me towards hiring someone.

        There’s also other logistics and timing. For example, I work hybrid and our mailroom is slow, so it could take an extra few days to a week to get to me.

        I’m wondering if a postcard might be better as an experiment, but could still be seen as gimmicky.

        Best of luck with your job search either way! I’m still curious to hear your future results.

        1. Adam*

          Thanks for your reply. The reason why I’m doing this is because of the problem I’m trying to solve – applying online through the normal way makes each application 1 of 1000. Tailor your resume, write an outstanding cover letter, click all the right skill buttons on the application, but standing out in any meaningful way is extremely difficult, and often completely impossible. My goal is to get my qualifications in front of the hiring manager. By mailing a simple cover letter and resume, now I’m 1 of 1, and more likely to be seen. I believe that if pick the exact right person and job, if I can break through the deafening noise and be seen, I have a better chance of being picked. As it is right now, I’ve gotten hundreds upon hundreds of rejection emails from applications many of which never made it through to an actual person.

          1. Cordelia*

            You seem to have dismissed all the comments saying that this will not get your qualifications in front of a hiring manager and will not make you more likely to be seen. But good luck, we look forward to your update.

          2. Nancy*

            You are solving nothing but are wasting a lot of paper. Not a good look for many people.

            This would go straight to recycling where I work. This is assuming it got to the right person. If you had said you were emailing people, that would have made more sense.

          3. Pelikan*

            Okay so it sounds like you either are trying to sell us on joining your downline for an MLM that’s focused on job-recruitment gimmicks, or you yourself joined someone else’s downline for such an MLM and now need to hit goal by signing up other rubes. My religion forbids joining pyramid schemes and MLMs but thank you for the offer.

      2. Parakeet*

        If what you’re doing is so segmented, targeted, positioned, in how you’re explaining why you’d be a great fit for the job…just do it in your actual cover letter. By which I mean, the one that’s part of your online job application. Why would anyone even bother to read a hard-copy mailed resume, as opposed to just throwing it in the recycling?

        If you want to network, then network. This isn’t networking, and it’s not anything like networking. It’s just being redundant.

      3. Ginger Cat Lady*

        You can call it “highly segmented” “targeted” “positioned” or whatever other trendy business acronyms you want, but it’s still a really dumb idea that doesn’t help you.
        I promise you, it’s not a good idea. Did you post here because you wanted praise and adulation for this gimmick? Because based on this response, you’re certainly not open to any advice or thoughts at all. You’re just committed to the bit.

      4. RagingADHD*

        If you already know the answer you want, why bother pretending you are asking a question?

        FWIW, I have actually written a book in the last 3 years on phone sales, for a couple of guys who teach software companies how to do them (and are highly successful).

        Those guys don’t snailmail their material, either.

        My caveat to you would be that this is most likely to backfire if you were actually applying to jobs in 1991, because it’s going to reinforce ageist stereotypes, and if you are GenX and looking for a job, ageism is your #1 obstacle. Your time and targeting would be much better spent on getting recent certifications for relevant software, and reformatting your resume to be functional or hybrid.

        If you’re just invoking 1991 to be cute, then go off, king. Godspeed. I doubt it’s going to do anything, but I love surprises.

    20. Another Academic Librarian too*

      sadly probably no one will see that mailed resume and cover letter. I am sure I am not the only person who checks the mail box tops 2x a week. All applications /CVs go through HR electronically. Even if I am the hiring manager with best intentions, why are you making me work harder- now I have to scan and send an electronic copy? not going to happen.

    21. Vector*

      LOL. Really hoping this is satire, because otherwise… yikes!

      On the hopefully super remote chance someone might seriously think of doing this – it would be utterly pointless. Our systems are not set up to accept paper applications, so assuming your “application” even made it to us (and didn’t get binned at the mail centre, or stuck in processing for months – we get virtually no paper mail so no one soends much time checking for it) it would get binned as soon as someone actually opened it and saw what it was. No one is going to waste time trying to get your bizarro version into our actual applicant tracking system as it’s a total waste of time and effort for a candidate who clearly has no clue about professional norms. What we would do is note your name and other identifying info, and make sure never to hire you in future as you’ve demonstrated such poor judgement. We’d also mark your correctly submitted application as rejected instantly we connected the two. Well, that and laugh about you, and tell this story of the person who sent a paper application in 2024. We’d get a lot of amusement out of that! You’d be remembered for sure, but not in a good way.

    22. Crest*

      So I do just want to point out that at my workplace (probably 5000-10000 employees, US-based, nonprofit), “austerity measures” have led to us having just ONE full time mail delivery person for the entire site now.

      So as of maybe last week, he will no longer be delivering mail around campus. You will have to come to him at the mailroom, between 2 PM and 4 PM on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, to see if you have something for pickup.

      And I know that for my department at least, we so rarely get physical mail that I was only checking our mail bin every 3-5 days (it’s in a different building).

      In the 6 months I’ve been here, my department has never gotten NON-junk physical mail. If by chance, my department did receive a physical resume and cover letter, it would be a Whole Thing—contacting the very tiny HR team (who are overworked and understaffed). Scanning the items into the computer to email to HR (they mostly work from home). Them probably then deciding if they wanted to try and “match” the items with your online application. Etc etc.

      So that’s just one example of how a workplace handles physical mail in 2024. If I were the hiring manager or at all involved in the hiring process for the role you’re applying for, my reactions would be one of two possibilities:
      1) at best, this is weird (why are you mailing this in when you applied online
      2) WTF dude (aka annoyance at this extra work—- especially as the admin assistant doing the extra work. And I would mention that to the actual hiring manager).

    23. Blue Pen*

      Annoying, to be honest. And depending on what types of roles you’re applying for, wildly out of touch in the year 2024. These systems are near-universally online for a reason.

      Still, I wish you luck. I know it’s hard out there right now.

    24. Synaptically Unique*

      Counterproductive. My business manager picks up our mail once/month on average, and it takes another 2-4 weeks to get to me because she tells me there’s something for my office and eventually someone gets around to picking it up. Minimum of 2-3 weeks and potentially 2 months before I’d even see it. But if I did see it, I would absolutely not be interested in bringing someone who would even think that would be useful into my office. Demonstrates poor judgement and a lack of understanding on current work norms.

    25. allathian*

      It might, just might work in the sense that your application would stand out. With several caveats. Because almost everything is electronic now, there are no guarantees your letter will be seen by the intended recipient. Even it it is, there’s no guarantee it will be read. ATS systems exist for a reason, and most employers that use them won’t look favorably on any attempts to bypass them.

      All that aside, you sound so arrogant that if any of that comes across in your cover letter, I’m not surprised you aren’t getting any interviews.

    26. Tippy*

      people did this in my last job as well. 1. the hiring manager wasn’t the one to open up the mail, it was staff. resumes just to put into interoffice envelopes and sent over to hr. if the person hasn’t submitted an online application they were invited to do so, either by coming in and using an available computer or on there own. mailed applications/resumes just weren’t taken.
      2. all of that normally delayed a response.
      3. it was annoying for staff but most of the people involved in the actual hiring process never even knew about it.

  69. Eat more chikn, not cats*

    Networking – Riffing off @dude, who moved my cheese? post

    I’m attending a 2 day conference in my city. I’m unemployed so this is a great chance to meet people. I don’t know anyone and never networked in this city (moved here in 2020 and went right to work. My role didn’t require networking). There aren’t great opportunities to network, for my industry, so meeting these people would be by chance in most instances.

    Question:
    The conference provides a list of attendees and contact information
    – Do I connect with them prior to the event via LinkedIn or email? I’m an avid LI user
    – Do I ask for a 15-min meeting to talk about their work when I’m only a job seeker?
    — EXCEPT I’m a skills base pro bono volunteer (on a popular platform) so I could ‘sell’ a short term, free service.
    – OR do I just focus on the initial chance meeting, make a good impression, and follow-up?
    — AND in the follow-up, will an email get lost in their daily fray? Should I (also) consider a hard mail follow-up (assuming they have an office which might be hit/miss these days)?

    What will leave a good, positive impression considering they might not be hiring – right now- but could in the future (and assuming I’m not off the market soon).

    This is an expensive investment for me so I want to max the cost and time.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Don’t do cold calls. Do take the time to have a good introduction to yourself put together (not a sales pitch, just a “Hi, I’m Chikn. What do you think of the conference thus far? I’m so glad to be able to connect with folks in our industry since I’ve been holed up in my office doing X since I came here.”
      Then be ready to explain your current position, and what you’re hoping to do next. If you get a good conversation going, you could say “I don’t want to monopolize your time now, but I’d love to stay in contact. We’ve got the attendee contact list — is everything correct there for you? What’s the best way I could reach you.”

    3. TCO*

      In my field, your approach would come on too strong–but you know your industry better than I do. In my field, the most I would do in advance is look through the attendee list, grab a few names of folks you really hope to connect with, and reach out to them with a brief email. I’d say that I’d love to meet them briefly to chat about my volunteer abilities as well as whatever you’re hoping to learn (do you have a specific question about their work? want their insight on hiring trends?) And then I’d see what I hear back. Some folks might be happy to make a specific plan to connect, others might take a “see you around” approach, but at least then you have a starting point to walk up and introduce yourself if you see them.

      Afterward, I’d connect on LI with folks I met. But I wouldn’t count on that being a method of timely communication (unless you know specific folks are very active on it) since some folks rarely or never open LI. If someone specifically expressed a willingness to look at or pass along my resume, I’d send that over email.

      Don’t follow up with postal mail. Frankly, that’s just weird and out of touch (see the thread above about someone mailing resumes).

      If your role hasn’t involved much networking in the past, is it a significant part of your industry? What I mean to say is, don’t put more importance on this event than is merited. That could result in you feeling a lot of self-inflicted pressure if your expectations are too high.

      1. Bike Walk Barb*

        This is all really good advice. My personal LI policy is that I wouldn’t accept a connection request from someone I don’t know. I’m on it rarely and wouldn’t see your message in advance of the conference. Once we’ve met, if you follow up and ask to connect with a reminder that we talked about XYZ at the conference I’m likely to say yes.

        Look at the schedule and figure out which topics or speakers will be the biggest draw for the people most relevant to your job search. Attend and ask a good question if you can. If I hear some ask a really good question I’m apt to seek them out after the session to introduce myself because I’m always looking to build my list of potential future recruits.

        As you’re walking out, strike up a conversation with someone–maybe they asked a great question and you didn’t get a chance to. They don’t have to be on some target list of “most valuable person there to talk with”. They’re a new connection, they know people, you can end up with others joining the conversation in the hallway (which is the most valuable real estate at any conference).

        Business card is a great idea. Do not mail me anything. I won’t see it for weeks and it will be weird. You can find my email so you could send me a follow-up “great to meet you, I’m especially interested in XYZ that you know a lot about/that your organization is leading on, would appreciate the chance for an informational interview if you give those.”

  70. Justin*

    My new hire started Monday and it’s been great to have a fellow educator on my team finally.

    She’s asking tons of questions, which is great, and also sort of forcing me to examine things I wasn’t able to do by myself.

    We really might be able to get some stuff done and there’s a lot of possibility.

    Things could change, but, I definitely feel like I made the right choice among the final candidates.

    I suppose the question is – how long did it take you to feel like you made a strong hire? I feel so great!

    1. Synaptically Unique*

      Within a month I am either positive I made a good choice or questioning whether it’s going to work out. Every time I’ve questioned it at 1 month in, it’s definitely been a bad choice. So glad you’re excited already, but don’t let that excitement override any red flags.

  71. slowingaging*

    Randomly for the last month I have been receiving emails(on my work email) to be a consultant from various different email addresses. I am convinced its a con. Is this something new?

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Probably. Especially if they’re not actually connecting on an individualized level.

    3. Bike Walk Barb*

      I get a rash of these every so often. Is your work email connected to your LinkedIn profile? I can tell that’s where some of mine came from in the past because I had a specific personal email connected to my profile. And now that list has been sold and is making the rounds because even though I changed the email address on my LI profile I’m still getting pitches to that address.

      1. Bike Walk Barb*

        Oh good grief, system posted this, it didn’t load for me, so I wrote a slightly different version and reposted. TGIF.

    4. Bike Walk Barb*

      Is your work email connected to your LinkedIn profile? I can tell that’s where some of mine came from in the past because I had a specific personal email connected to my profile. And now that list has been sold and is making the rounds because even though I changed the email address on my LI profile I’m still getting pitches to that address.

      Even more annoying are the ones that are texted to my cell phone.

  72. Meep*

    Mostly want to laugh together.

    I work for a start-up software company that contracts out to a billion-dollar tech company to do consulting work. We are literally vital to the success of one of their products. Recently, we switched from hourly to project-based on their insistence which did mean we could bump our rates 3x after five years of being denied a rate raise.

    One of their experts and senior authority of all things our specialty, Rich, was out sick about two months ago and was hospitalized a couple of times. He is just one out of five we integrate with, but it caused everything to be pushed a month plus behind including getting our SOWs approved. He is stressed out and bogged down and as a result is spiraling a bit including spending tens of thousands of dollars troubleshooting work another contractor is doing using our software in a bid to attempt to not have to pay both of us. He also told his boss that we were behind on fulfilling a SOW. Turns out, he didn’t even open the report we reminded him that we sent him on a weekly basis for two months. Its a mess, but he is trying to work through it, and he is not our actual problem child.

    Cue his boss, Fergus. Fergus denied THREE of our POs two months ago. Two of them he never should’ve and actually resulted two of our contractors still on the old pitifully hourly scheme in getting kicked out of their system for a few days. The third was the one mentioned above. None of them have been resolved to-date despite constant poking on our part. And this week, we added a fourth PO. This one is roughly a third of a million dollars and involves our software licenses. We sent the PO 60 days ago, and we sent out the license 3 days ago when the old one expired. Fergus just informed us the person in charge of software approvals will be gone for two weeks after my boss, Gideon, point blank asked him. Cue cat fight.

    Ok, not really. Fergus then told us to go email one of HIS coworkers so she could approve everything. Yep. That’s right. Owes us close to a million dollars due to his team’s error and wants us and his female coworker who has no control over his team to deal with it on his behalf. Oh, dear reader, it gets a lot more stupid from here.

    Then we moved over to the approval process and getting that electric signature instead of just relying on Rich’s verbal approval in meetings, because see PO #3. (Which btw he has been very apologetic about. Thank you, Rich.) Fergus insisted that it was our responsibility to nag Rich and his team (remember Fergus is the boss here) and essentially manage him, because he couldn’t. Gideon was not pleased and refused.

    Therefore, Fergus got the bright idea to use one of those two contractors from our team to do it. You know, the contractors who he is two months behind on paying making us supplement it and were out of work for almost a week because he didn’t approve the contract in time? Yeah. Those two contractors are now expected to manage Fergus’ team for pennies while Fergus does… well I don’t know at this point what Fergus does but it doesn’t seem like much.

    I swear if it didn’t defy the laws of physics, I would’ve watched Gideon strangle this man through the screen right then and there.

    So yeah, that is how my Friday started at 8 AM sharp.

  73. AnonymizedQuestioner*

    Should I tell the recruiter that just emailed me that I worked there…in 1987-88? In the interim I have changed my legal name and that firm has gone through several changes. I was let go when the person I replaced for parental leave decided to come back to work.

    1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      I would be up front about it, especially since it sounds like you were laid off/let go due to redundancy and not fired for cause.

      I’d just recuse myself if I were fired for cause or not eligible for rehire.

      1. Momma Bear*

        Depending on the size of the company, you may already be in the system and they’ll find out once they enter your SSN or something. Since it was just a fill-in gig, I’d casually mention it. The rest of your work history should speak for itself.

        1. WellRed*

          Ha! If it was 1987 I’d be surprised if the system was anything more than cardboard file boxes long since relegated to deep storage. But I do think you should mention it.

        2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

          That’s what I was thinking. The SSN would key when the tax info would be entered into the system.

    2. Pay no attention...*

      I’m going against the others… unless it’s the type of org/position that would have a very strict background check, and required a complete job history, no. That long ago wouldn’t go on your resume and wouldn’t need to be mentioned unless it was REALLY REALLY relevant — like you set fire to the building on your way out.

    3. Glomarization, Esq.*

      I wouldn’t tell the recruiter. They need to know only whether you think the job might be a good fit. However, I’d make it a game-time decision as to whether I bring it up during the interview, if my candidacy went that far. Does it seem like an interesting tidbit of information for the conversation? Yes, bring it up. Will it emphasize my age and the fact that I might be the oldest person in the candidate pool? No, don’t bring it up.

  74. Melon Merengue*

    I have pet photos on my desk. Three frames in total, two of which have multiple pics in them. 3 out of the 4 animals in these photos have now passed away. Does keeping them make it weird for people who approach my desk?

    1. Momma Bear*

      People probably have no idea they’re not alive anymore and even if they do, it’s just a nice photo. I wouldn’t worry about it.

      1. Marina Rose*

        Seconding this. No one will know or bat an eye. If anyone asks about them, it wouldn’t be odd for you to say they’ve passed away but like to keep them with you. Most pet owners can relate

    2. DisneyChannelThis*

      It might be awkward in the conversation seeing proudly displayed pet photos usually leads to small talk like,
      Oh are those your pets? How many dogs do you have? What are their names?
      And the answer is 1 dog, the other 3 died, could be a little upsetting. But as long as you are upbeat and casual about 3 of them having crossed the rainbow bridge it shouldn’t be an issue. (If talking about them makes your cry don’t display them at work).

  75. Anxious Annie This Is For You*

    Last Friday Anxious Annie posted a question about applying to move from an engineering/planning firm to a state agency lower-level job in an office where people knew her. The comments were locked when I saw it so I’m following up in case you’re on again this week, Annie. You asked about telling people.

    You don’t need to tell anyone until you find out you have an interview.

    Why I say this–

    I work in a large state agency that contracts with planning/engineering consultants galore. If this agency’s screening practices are like mine the hiring manager doesn’t even see the applications until after they’ve gone through a review for meeting minimum qualifications, which it sounds like you’d pass. They’ll be scoring people on some kind of rubric with points for various tasks or qualifications and you won’t know what they’re weighting more heavily. They may involve a hiring committee, which may or may not include the hiring manager.

    What I can almost guarantee is that no one has time to ask extra questions about candidates on a long list until people move to the interview stage and they’re dealing with a short list.

    If you’re on the bubble at that scoring phase they *might* ask Phoebe. If Phoebe handles it like a professional she won’t say anything to Mary because hiring processes are confidential. (I assume you’re not listing Mary as a reference.) Since you say your relationship has been strong and positive, whatever she says should move you to an interview, at which point you know you’re being considered and you can talk with Mary.

    Worst case, they do ask Phoebe, she does say something to Mary, and Mary comes to you. At that point you have the conversation you were going to need to have anyway: that she knows you’re burned out and this opening looked like a good opportunity to recharge your batteries with something different. Don’t say it looks like less work or easier or anything like that–this could go back to Phoebe and to the hiring team and then they think you’re looking for a job you won’t have to think about. It looks lower-level to you; you don’t know what they do about the actual work. (Someone asked above in this week’s thread about transitioning to a job where they can “coast” and you don’t want to give off the vibe that you’re looking for this.)

    Also be prepared to not advance to the interview stage specifically because you’re over-qualified. A good screening committee will pick up on the possibility that someone would be a short-timer or that there’s some reason they’re applying for something lower level than what they’re doing now. “Why would they want THIS job?” is a question that does come up.

    Be prepared to talk in the interview about why you’d take a step back. The opportunity to contribute to the public good and not having to hustle for business development if that’s part of your role are solid answers here, along with whatever you can say about enjoyment of the work you’ve done with the agency, wanting to see projects through to their end in a way that consultants sometimes don’t, that kind of thing, as long as it’s a fit for the job you’re applying for.

    If you get the interview, congrats! And the job ditto.

    Do be prepared for the realities of being in a position lower than what you’re used to. I can say that at one point I was involved in the hiring of someone who seemed highly qualified, said all the right things about wanting to work in the public sector, then was not a fit in part because they still wanted some of the things they’d gotten in the private sector that weren’t ever going to happen. Details omitted but it didn’t end well, in parts thanks to an “I’m too good to do this/should be recognized more than this” mindset that couldn’t adjust and didn’t play well with others.

  76. Tammy 2*

    I’m sure no one remembers, but I posted several months ago about microwave smells from the kitchen making their way into my office through a shared vent.

    It’s still a problem but I did find something I can do as a fix if it’s really bugging me–I microwave some nice-smelling tea and it seems to replace the lunch smell. I bet lemon slices would work great, too, but when would I ever remember to bring those to work?

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      A bottle of lemon juice in the fridge, a splash in the water, and Bob’s your nice smelling uncle!

  77. Mx. Snuffleupagus*

    About a month ago, I applied for a job and was rejected without an interview. They recently opened a new posting for the same job — I’ve seen jobs reopen before where they kept my last application on file, but this appears like a totally new application. My experience obviously hasn’t seriously changed (I officially graduated my master’s program days after I turned in my previous application, and that’s about it), but I’ve revamped my resume and I’ve been trying to write better cover letters. I am slightly overqualified based on the job description (so I don’t think gaining more experience would really help me here) but I genuinely want to get into this type of position. Is it worth it to apply again with a new cover letter or should I assume the previous rejection was final?

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      If you got a letter that said, “sorry, we didn’t go with your application”, I’d assume it was less “rejection” and more “not picked”. Which means they may not have even really considered it for whatever reason (which could be as simple as they found enough people to interview and then just put the rest of the pile to the side).

      So I’d go ahead, apply and maybe not even worry about mentioning that you applied before.

      1. Mx. Snuffleupagus*

        That makes sense — the wording was a little different but it was a form rejection along those lines. I’ll write a new cover letter and try applying again.

    2. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      May as well try. It may not even be the same hiring manager this time.

      1. Mx. Snuffleupagus*

        Hah, I’m pretty sure it’s the same hiring manager. (Possibly relevant: this is a support role at a local university, and I’ve applied to the same job type in multiple departments. This will be my first repeat application to the same department.) I’ll still give it a shot.

        1. Synaptically Unique*

          Even in the same department and same/similar job description, it could easily be a different position with a different hiring manager. Universities are often very different entities than the corporate environments.

  78. Aerin*

    Anyone have good resources for CV templates? I know what makes a good resume (thanks to this site!) but CVs are outside my wheelhouse.

    If it matters, I’m looking at jobs in the UK in both creative and tech fields. While I’m not an academic, I might end up applying for staff roles at colleges and the like.

    1. bamcheeks*

      There isn’t a difference between a CV and a resume in the UK, so do you mean you want a standard CV template for the UK (if you do, happy to send you the ones I use with students) or do you mean a creative CV?

      1. Nesprin*

        In the US, in academia, CV is a long document summarizing essentially everything you’ve ever done (full publication list, courses taught etc- mine is ~12 pages), whereas a resume is 1-2 page highlights of career experience/training relevant to a job at hand.

        Unless you are applying specifically for a faculty job, you should use a standard format resume. Staff positions at universities will ask for a resume, not a CV.

  79. Version1*

    Someone brought in homemade cookies today and left them on the common area table. They are not very tasty! Very hard, not sweet enough, and a little oily. But I love the gesture, and I know based on the pleasant people in my office that someone was just trying their best to do something nice on stormy Friday!

  80. Ms. Whatsit*

    Very late here, but tips for resubmitting an application or replacing/updating/augmenting a cover letter? Basically, I didn’t address that I don’t live in the area. I should have, but I spotted the posting a week before the deadline when I also had a ton of stuff going on and in my anxious writing and rewriting (and submitting just before midnight the last day), I missed it.

    The posting expired on the (thematic jobs) site where I originally saw it, but looks like it was extended on the site which also handles the application submission (and is directly linked from the org’s webpage). This posting also now says “Must live in X area” – which I think is new, and the posting I saw on the other site actually listed it as hybrid. My assumption was that if I got the job I’d move there, but I just missed it. I know that’s not ideal but I’m hoping I can resubmit or submit an updated or supplemental cover letter addressing that to at least be considered.

    Any guidance/ideas?

    1. EkoEm*

      If there is a contact email address provided anywhere during the application process, or maybe if the HR/hiring person’s email is listed on the website somewhere, I suppose you could email a follow up to your application to offer the clarification that you are willing to relocate since you saw the location requirement on the site after applying. Or depending on what the online application system is like, maybe there is a way to update something in your profile?

  81. Keep it Simple*

    Behold my favorite spam email ever – received at my work email, too. “EMPLOYEES FROM HELL: how to work with people who suck the life out of your organization.”

    1. Chauncy Gardener*

      Bwahahaha! I received that one too!
      It might even be an actual training, but we did send it around our org with a specific someone in mind. Heh

  82. Foodless*

    Wondering how companies do things re food for staff when they help out at all day meetings and events. Especially as lunch times are taken up with tying up loose ends from the morning attending to attendee needs and preparing for the afternoon so no time to take a break to grab food elsewhere! But easy enough to grab a something from the communal catering.
    Usually the company caters for staff as well. But one event manager told me I had to wait until all has eaten and could only have something of any left overs. I always am late to the food due to tying up loose ends etc but was so dumbfounded or I would have said “In that case I’ll need to take half an hour to buy and eat lunch”.
    I’m also diabetic and although unlikely to have a hypo, as not enough meds and follow a very low carb diet, should eat.

    1. Another Academic Librarian too*

      We have a “family eats last” for event food so yes, as what happened at todays event, by the time everyone was seated and my work as host was finished there was no food. This is typical and I always have my own food with me. That said, I am professional rank and I provide a separate lunch for my staff if they are working the event.

    2. WellRed*

      I’d consider bringing my own food (type 1 D here), but would alsor have no qualms saying what you said or getting an advance blanket accommodation. If you are in the US, it’s required by law under the ADA.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Our org always orders to include support staff. Our lunch break is after the VIPs, but that’s not because they are leftovers. There are things to be done during their lunch break (getting papers signed, print requests, etc) but once the afternoon session is started, we have some peace.

    4. Chauncy Gardener*

      We ALWAYS buy an extra platter or whatever the food is for folks working the event to have later. We squirrel it away so no one else has access to it.

    5. DJ*

      It does seem to be the done thing to provide lunch for staff working the event. Otherwise they’d be off sourcing/eating lunch elsewhere and possibly back late.
      We used to also ensure lunch was provided for those attending training as then they’d stay in premises and would be back on time. Also food for networking for the participants especially if they came from different sites. Have ppl go out leads to ppl back late.

  83. DJ*

    Let’s talk about https://www.askamanager.org/2024/10/coworkers-wont-help-me-cut-expenses-colleague-owes-me-money-and-more.html?mc_cid=96aae19102&mc_eid=ec91486f91
    being about cutting expenses.
    LW needs therapy as the workplace is NOT a charity. Being judicious with resources ie the person who uses both sides of paper is reasonable but not claiming expenses, overtime, offering for the employer to cut back on super and health insurance!!!
    What is and isn’t reasonable?

    1. ABCABC*

      That is an interesting one. I believe the LW mentioned that they were not in the US. It would be interesting to find out what country they are in.

      I know some countries/cultures put the good of the collective well above the good of the individual so it is unclear if that is what is going on or something else

    2. Bike Walk Barb*

      Nothing they were doing sounded reasonable to me. I kept thinking “martyr syndrome” (and I’m not a professional and that’s not a diagnosis, just recognition of a pattern of thought and behavior I’ve seen in others). They were harming themselves in so many ways and the company never loves you back.

      I used to run a nonprofit that had occasional travel for conferences and program delivery. We discussed per diem vs actual expenses and a staffer said they would only submit actual expenses if they ate more cheaply than the federal per diem rate I would have been comfortable with, and would put in for per diem if they ate a meal that cost more. This was a voluntary act and I appreciated it–would never have expected or required it and didn’t make it a policy. When someone travels for work they’re disrupting their personal life. They may have to pay for someone to watch home, pets, or kids, none of which I’d pay for from an organizational budget (now in the public sector and it wouldn’t be a permissible expense). If they “make” a few bucks on per diem the organization is in no way harmed.

      Another example comes to mind. We have a book club for our team. It’s voluntary to participate and we purchase books from our budget. They choose whether they want a physical book or an e-book and we order what they request. Some might think that if money were really tight we should ask if people minded getting a used copy, except that the time to find a used copy in near-new condition is a different kind of expense to the organization. Saving money often costs time.

      1. DJ*

        I agree saving money means more time which costs $. I had a manager ask me to go out and get 3 quotes to buy paper plates for an event. The policy was for anything under 5K you just go and buy it (but obviously be sensible).
        The time it took to get the quotes and discuss them took up so much more time and cost than to purely go to the $2 shop and buy them (supermarkets further away)

  84. Another Academic Librarian too*

    I think this is work related. I am disabled. Use a crutch sometimes for mobility issues. I have good days but most days I cannot stand for long periods of time or walk any distance without great pain.
    Someone left a note on my car anonymously asking that I not use the disability space (we only have two in our lot) as they use a wheel chair and need the space. We do not have assigned spaces. Everyone in the lot pays a parking fee or has a monthly pass.
    I have been begging (emails, phone calls) to the University parking department for years for more spaces. There was only one when I arrived ten years ago and it took a year of nagging to get the second space.

    I am aware that there is a need for more of these spaces as I often have arrived when they are taken.

    I know I am not doing anything wrong but is there anything more I can be doing?

    2. WellRed*

      Do you not have a disabled permit in your car? If you do, ignore them or band together? Should there be a minimum number of required disabled parking spots per total number is spaces (check with state law or disability advocates group?) also, you need to contact HR , and probably loop in your boss. The parking department isn’t going to care about this (though they should).

      1. WellRed*

        It’s a university, is there an ombudsman? Do you belong to a union? Is there a student newspaper?

    3. FirstComeFirstServed*

      As long as you have a handicap parking permit it’s first come, first served and it’s beyond obnoxious for the other person to leave the note.

      One caveat to this: there actually are some handicap spots that are designed for van access and some that are not. If you have one of each and arrive when both are free, you should probably take the spot without the van access unless you need it. But this is politeness, not a legal requirement.

      If you don’t have a placard or a plate then you absolutely cannot park in either of the spots. If you think you need one, discuss it with your medical team.

      1. Another Academic Librarian too*

        yes. I have had disability parking permits for the last 20 years. When I learned to drive and bought a car, I got plates. No, I do not take van access spot unless it is the only one left. We do not have a union.

    4. HavePermit?*

      If you have a handicap parking permit you’re doing nothing wrong. If you don’t, you have no right to use the spot and they’re being pretty nice leaving you a note as a first step. They can and should have you ticketed and towed if you’re using the spot without the legal right to do so (as conveyed by a permit).

    5. Another Academic Librarian too*

      I just realized that I had not noted that I have state issued disability plates on my car and am registered with the University and with parking services as disabled.

      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        With disabled plates and permits -presumably always visible – you have the right to park in a disabled spot. The note-leaver is being rude and trying to stop you parking there.

        They are probably frustrated that there are too few spaces, but they should press the uni to create more, not try to dissuade you from using a space.

    6. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      I suggest you contact uni facilities management or similar, saying there are too few places and – just in case the other person complains about you – state that you received this note despite having the necessary plates and permits clearly visible.

      Do take extra care each time that your disabled permit for this uni is always clearly displayed

      1. ParkingRules*

        just a clarifying note that there is no need for a university-specific handicapped parking permit. If you have a government issued permit that’s enough.

        Most universities do not separately have their own permits, nor do they require separate registration of any sort.

        If it’s a staff only lot or a lot with other restrictions you need to meet those requirements in most places, but there are jurisdictions where having a handicap permit would override the other requirements.

        In many jurisdictions you can also park in metered parking for free.

        Note that it is not uncommon for security or even cops not to know the rules for handicap parking more generally; my father used to get ticketed and have to get the tickets thrown out periodically. I’ve personally run into cops that tried to claim handicap parking was for dropping off disabled passengers and cars should move after doing so, that you had to have plates and placards were not valid, and that you had to be in a wheelchair to use handicap spots (pointing to the symbol as proof).

        1. Samwise*

          My university has handicap parking spaces in areas where you must also have a permit. In other words, you have to have the permit for that lot plus a handicap hang tag or license plates. If you don’t have the permit you can’t park there.

    7. M2*

      Have you spoken to facilities or HR? I would start there and just ask if they can add a couple more handicap spots. One small lot where a family member of mine works with maybe 30-35 spots has 8-10 just for handicap, one giant one for loading, 4 15-30 minutes or less and the rest during the week during work hours just have a kind of pass to park in that particular lot. I know they added extra handicap spots because they used to only have 6 and added more to another side of the lot.

      I wouldn’t worry about the note, but I am surprised they only have two spots. Is this normal or just in this particular lot? If you think it’s a pattern maybe bring it up to the Title IX coordinator. I know they deal with students but they may be able to help you contact someone who can make the change.

      1. Another Academic Librarian too*

        Its a super odd situation. The lot serves two locations. It is the length of three buildings. On one end there are around 6 or 7 disability parking spots. The length of the car lot may be about 5 city blocks. The farthest most point where the door to my building is had one spot. I campaigned and got another spot made after about a year. The argument parking dept. made was that the lot had 8 spots and statistically that should be plenty but in reality there was only one by our building.

  85. C*

    There’s a letter to Ask Harriette on September 25 that I think commenters here might find interesting. I’ll post the text in a reply to myself and the link in a second reply to myself.

    2. C*

      Actually, before I post the letter it occurs to me that I should find out what the site policy is on posting probably copyrighted material. It’s the second letter, about a woman who has a whole slew of “mandatory” unpaid events to go to for work.

  86. EkoEm*

    Not sure if I can put a link in the comments, but, you can order temporary/popup disabled parking signs online… wondering what would happen if some just appeared on a 3rd or 4th space overnight? Something like “Trailblazer Vertical Panel – Handicap Reserved – Black w High Intensity Prismatic Sheeting” or “Portable Sign Stanchion – Handicapped Parking” for google..

    Not that you should have to do that, but you’ve done all that you can within the system. Maybe time to go rogue haha

  87. Coffee and TV*

    My contract was not renewed after my initial six months; I kicked butt in my work and had some great feedback from coworkers and stakeholders, but my manager was inappropriate with me from my first week, and I confronted him on more than one occasion about how he behaved towards and spoke to me. I probably would have quit right away, but needed the money, as things go, and I really liked my cowokers and enjoyed the work I was doing. I called HR at the urging of my consulting agency, but they said that because I was a contract employee, they could not help me.

    Anyhow, the situation with my manager caused major distress and I was having panic attacks and waking up in the middle of the night with my heart pounding, that kind of thing. I’m seeing an amazing therapist and have started to gently send out resumes again, but Im not pushing it. It was a really toxic situation, I can’t imagine how I would ever have predicted that from the brief interview we had before I was hired. I needed the money, and people normally don’t act like that.

    However, from time to time people I worked at that company reach out on social media to say hi and are curious about why my time with the company was so short. A few folks actually wrote some nice recos for me on LinkedIn. People seem a bit blindsided.

    I don’t really know what to say. I’ve thought about saying something like: I loved working with you on the project, too, and would jump at the chance to work there for another manager.

    But I’m not sure if that’s professional, or if I should just leave it be entirely. The manager was a nightmare of a human being, for sure, but I feel like it would blow back on me if I said even one (true) thing about how bad he was.

    Have you ever been through something like this?

  88. Jaya*

    Really have to thank the people who suggested looking up temp agencies last week. One did get back to me, so I am doing a three-day gig. Alas it starts Sunday when family is in town, but the other option was starting Saturday and I didn’t want to risk looking picky in case building relationships means having a steady stream of income. I definitely have to prepare by picking up some outfits that are in dress code and checking the driving time.

    Emotionally speaking, I have resigned myself to not getting hired for my skills any time soon. Drumming up that hope is too exhausting while sending resumes and applying. So I’m considering plan Bs, and gave a paper application for retail at a store I like since it seems applying online doesn’t work for me. If that doesn’t work, will keep doing any paper applications when needed for any retail or food service and freelance work. A former classmate and I commiserated over getting rejected for the same position and not knowing why, with him being encouraged by that particular place to apply. Despite the jobs added last month, luck hasn’t hit either of us or the people I know who are job hunting.

    I don’t know how October will be different in terms of strategizing. But I feel like planning for a job fair and doing a LinkedIn challenge are two ways to be different.

    2. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

      Commiserations from me, and glad you were able to find temporary income quickly. I’m not expecting to be hired for anything in my field any time soon, either, but am applying for seasonal retail positions and completing training to possibly do entry level tax prep work in the spring.

  89. Bob*

    Hi, I am starting my early childhood education degree and have an interview to be accepted onto the course. Does anyone have any tips or advice for the interview? I live in New Zealand but welcome any comments from ECE teachers.

  90. LilacliLy*

    I applied for a job that fit my profile really nicely, plus the company benefits were fantastic. I waited with baited breath to hear back but I got an email from their internal recruiter rejecting my application a couple of days after she looked at my LinkedIn profile. I responded very politely, thanking her for taking the time to review my application and asking if I could get some feedback as to why they felt I wasn’t a good fit, but after I sent the email I realized that I wasn’t responding to her company email address but rather a scrambled jumble of letters and numbers that was automatically generated when the email was sent out to me. I didn’t get any automated response saying that my email wasn’t sent and the email didn’t say anything about it being a no-reply address or asking applicants not to respond to this email, so I’m unsure whether the internal recruiter received my message or not.

    My question is: should I reach out to her either via email (it shouldn’t be too hard to find her corporate email address) or through LinkedIn DMs? I’m desperate for any sort of feedback as to why my applications have not panned out; I reckon I’ve applied to 30+ jobs the last few months (I’m only casually looking while working my day job) and I’ve made sure to write customized cover letters and only apply to jobs that I was interested in and were a good fit for my profile, but I’ve not gotten a single positive response from any of them. This one was a particularly bad blow because everything about the job was pretty perfect for me and I was really hoping to get somewhere with it.

    If it helps with context, I’m in the south of the UK, looking for hybrid roles either locally or in London.

    1. M2*

      Did you speak to the recruiter at all or they just messaged you after looking at your profile? Personally if they didn’t email you from an actual email address I wouldn’t find their email and reach out because it could go either way. Some people might feel uncomfortable with someone reaching out like that since if they wanted a response they would reply via email. Just imagine if everyone who applied for a role expected feedback. That would be a lot of work from the recruiter. If you have actually been interviewed or are a finalist- sure and many hiring managers will give feedback to the one or two who were finalists but did not get the role.

      Might you update your LinkedIn or make it private for awhile and see if that helps? 30
      applications isn’t that much imho.

      How long have you been in your current role/ previous roles? Things I have seen on application are people who worked 2 years or less for multiple roles on a row I don’t necessarily interview because I view them as job hoppers. Also, diversify where you apply and titles. I have seen people apply for roles that are too senior for them. I think it’s fine to apply to a few but also apply to what might be lateral moves as well especially if you’re changing fields.

      Apply early. If you can try and apply early within the first 1-3 weeks a job is open. I start looking at applicants in the 30 day mark (my company alllws is go look at resumes starting at the 30 day mark but I worked at some that let us look from day 5-7 so if I saw excellent candidates right away I would start the process from then).

    2. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Don’t hunt down EM addresses that are not directly provided to you. It could come off as intrusive at best, maybe even creepy. You don’t want that reputation making your job hunt even tougher.
      Patience is key, especially when you already have the safety net of a current job.
      Wait until you have legitimately been given an EM address and then ask for feedback if you don’t get the job.
      Good luck!

  91. a_little_bitter*

    The question-
    if the company initiates an RTO policy, and I don’t do it to the letter, how hard is it for them to fire me?

    Background –
    Return to Office (RTO) -all the cool kids are doing it it seems.
    My employer is following along. 3 days in/ 2 days WFH – Look, we’re still being SO flexible!
    I was hired remotely in 2020.
    My original offer letter is for HQ in Atlanta. I asked and was told that I would never have to go there or move. I did not get this in writing.
    A few months post-hire, I was moved to Delaware in workday (where I live).
    In workday I am assigned to a DE field office. I have never been asked to go to this office.
    Company is now saying that “office people” are not allowed to go to field offices, but must go to a regional office, or to the place where the original offer states.
    The regional office 150 miles away. in another state, and i have never been there. It is not safe or reasonable to expect me to go there 3x/week.
    If i am moved to regional office in work day, my tax situation also changes.
    While this is my situation, the overall situation is not specific to me.
    Some people have workday / office assignments to buildings that no longer exist – the company sold them.
    While employees are now expected to align to moving goal posts, we are also being expected to have documentation we never thought we would need.
    many of us are not against going to AN office, to sit in a conference room, we are resistant to being expected to commute 3 hours each way to sit in a bull pen.
    For my group, none of us will even be reporting to the same office. There will be no additional face to face collaboration.
    It will be solely for the sake of watching someone sit in a chair.
    With WFH i am at work at 630am and sometimes still working at 630 PM.
    I have every-other Friday off.
    with the new policy, if one wants the full day off, all other days have to be in office.
    (but we’re still being so flexible)
    I know with RTO, I will work 7-3 and be absolutely done.
    company wide, there will be lost productivity and significant loss of institutional knowledge, as people decide this just isnt what they want to do.
    So, my question, as stated above, is;:
    If i keep doing my job well, how hard will it be for the company to legally terminate me?

    1. Bike Walk Barb*

      Not an attorney here, but firing someone for not following a stated work requirement is pretty simple. The underlying question only you can answer is how likely they are to do so, given that they made promises in the beginning that this wouldn’t happen and that you’re doing well at the job.

      Broaching a conversation with your direct supervisor may feel scary, but if you have a good relationship you might want to revisit along the lines of “Here’s what I was told in the beginning and it’s one of the major reasons I accepted the job. I want to check in with you about this.” And get the answer in email from them, or write your own confirming email: “As we discussed Tuesday, the commitment made to me when I was hired that I won’t have to move in order to go to a specific office is still in effect.” Your supervisor may be able to go to bat for you and get an exception to the policy.

      I work for a state agency that has had to fill some positions with people working in another state because the skill set is so specific and they were willing to work for us while not being willing to move. That agreement goes in writing because it affects things like reimbursement for travel to required work events. If your job requires occasional travel that’s a spot where company policy may mean you’re footing the travel bill from your own pocket because you haven’t relocated to be closer to where you’re expected to go for that meeting. Your self-imposed higher travel costs aren’t their problem.

    2. Flame Forward*

      Assuming you do not have a contract, as most US employees do not, it will be very easy indeed for them to fire you for not following their stated policy. Whether they will or not will depend on many factors we have noway of knowing, but they can fire you in a moment if they choose.

  92. HonestAbe*

    Can anyone recommend ways to respond to a chronic and pathological liar that don’t engage in the situation? I manage an employee who has numerous performance issues, one of which is flagrant and persistent lying. HR is involved, this is all extensively documented, etc. This employee likes to drag out any attempt to right-the-record or address the errors by arguing back and jumping all over the place (they contradict themselves frequently).

    Basically what I’m looking for is simple phrases to note the lie but shut it down. Anytime I try to make a correction – even with something controvertible, something astoundingly obvious – the employee will fight and argue. It’s like talking to a child in tantrum without the screaming. Any suggestions?

    1. Bike Walk Barb*

      Have you tried letting them wear themselves out like the tantrum child? “That statement isn’t true. We’re going to address the real issue here, which is XYZ.” Wait for them to stop talking. “Moving on to address XYZ, I need you to ABC.”

      As I write this it feels as if it would eat up a lot of time in the early days, but if you’re 100% consistent in waiting them out, ignoring everything they said, and picking up the real issue, my inner optimist would hope that they’d stop throwing themselves off the Liar Wall.

      This skips any correcting statements from you that can form the basis for rebuttal. You don’t want to give them the opening for “The sun does NOT rise in the east! I was in Oregon which is clearly in the west and I saw the sun rise!” You simply don’t engage at all on the content of the lie.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Actually, I would ignore the lie, and go instead with one of the tips I read on this site a long time ago, which was to start your sentences with the word “Nevertheless” and end with asking for a commitment.
      As in, the employee tantrums wildly about your instruction X or directive Y, and you respond with “Nevertheless, I’ll expect you to do X [or Y] going forward. Can you do that?” And just keep saying that over and over again until you wear them out. Once you get a verbal commitment, email the gist of the meeting to them to get it on record, and hold them accountable to what they said they’d do (at least until HR can give you permission to fire them).
      I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

  93. Anon for this one thanks*

    Hi, I know I’m pretty late to the party here so I might ask this again next week. Does anyone have experience dealing with the awkwardness of changing religions in the workplace?

    I’m a member of a religion with a large cultural/ethnic component (think Judaism, Islam etc) we’ll call Cat-ism since AAM commenters love felines so much. I’ve been taking Catish holidays off, bringing in traditionally Catish foods from time to time as a gesture of good will and cultural exchange, and explaining to the (almost entirely Christian or atheist) team information about different Catish holidays*. For personal, spiritual reasons, I am taking a step back from Cat-ism; in addition, I am engaging with a different faith instead, thankfully one that lines up with my schedule so I’m unlikely to need time off.

    I don’t know how, or whether, to broach this at work. Do I remain Catish in name and time off only until I find a new job, which could be years from now? Do I simply, quietly stop bringing in culturally relevant foods and making notes about holidays and hope that people take the hint?

    *In a positive, culture-focused, non-proselytizing way; think “Just letting you know I won’t be reachable by phone next week because I’ll be in Mousie Day services, where we celebrate by eating mouse-shaped cookies!” not “On this holiday we repent for our sins and grovel at the awesome might of the Great Cat lest we be cast into the depths with the unbelievers.”
    I’ll admit, I see now that this was maybe not the best idea for exactly this reason as well as plenty of others. I guess I was just feeling lonely as the only Catish person in a small Christian town, and was thinking of it as more of a cultural thing than a religious thing, but that doesn’t really excuse bringing religion up at work.

    1. Bike Walk Barb*

      Not based on experience; thinking from my perspective as the manager of someone who practices a religion that requires days off that aren’t standard paid federal or state holidays. They don’t explain the reason for a day off, they just take it and set a standard OOO message along the lines of “Offline Friday and Monday, back on email Tuesday”.

      I’d vote for simply dropping your sharing practices with no announcement or discussion. People may think you gave up because they’re non-receptive, that you’re too busy to bake the Mousie Day cookies, or they won’t think about it at all. If they’re curious enough to ask, “Hey, whatever happened to Mousie Day?” you could say something along the lines of, “Oh, I’m just not bringing that kind of thing to work any more” with no further details, said with a friendly expression and a quick “How about that Dog account? Any problems yet?”.

      This assumes you don’t have new foods you want to share, or that you share them simply as part of regular office food practices with no religious education attached if people ask about them. “It’s an old recipe” covers a lot of ground. I wouldn’t engage in sharing about the new beliefs at all, other than anything you need to do with your supervisor so they don’t do something that violates a specific belief.

      It’s lonely to be in a religious minority and I’m not seeking to diminish that in suggesting you leave it out of your workplace. If you have a workplace friend who’s genuinely interested and you discuss it, that’s different from telling the whole office about it in an email. People don’t need details to understand that email responses will be delayed whether it’s personal beliefs or someone’s surgery or niece’s wedding or other reason for being unavailable.

        1. Mid*

          But you also don’t need to beat yourself up for your past actions! It’s okay to want to share your culture and you didn’t do anything wrong here. And, it’s okay to let that fade out as you explore your new faith.

  94. A reader among many*

    I’d appreciate some advice on a bit of a weird salary situation, if anything comes to mind!

    I’m in a very unusual job. I work for a large public university that has salary bands for different job classifications–fairly common, right?–and job experience/certifications can move you up within your band. I’m in a band with several people in my department whose jobs are similar to each other’s but quite different from mine.

    Recently, someone in my department & pay band noticed that the people in the same band in a different department were paid 30-50% more than our group though they’re supposed to be on the same level. HR reluctantly agreed to re-evaluate the people in our band within my department, so we all submitted up-to-date resumes and waited.

    A few months later, HR released their new pay structure for us, and it doesn’t achieve the stated goal. We did receive an upward adjustment of almost 10%, which matches the large COLA that everyone in my department *except for* us got early this year, but obviously it doesn’t take us to the level it was supposed to, and I’m wondering what we can do about that.

    The specific job I do (related to a very specific kind of inventory with special documentary requirements) is one that perhaps a few hundred people in the US also do, and only a few of them operate on our scale, so I don’t have information to build a case for negotiating salary. Fortunately, (or not? I’m unsure…) HR doesn’t seem to work that way here. My boss and my colleagues’ boss negotiated and pushed for this adjustment; people at my level were not directly involved in the process, and HR didn’t present the results directly to us. It seems to be the culture that we can take personnel complaints to HR, but any other HR function is filtered through management.

    That might or might not be normal–I don’t have much basis for comparison–but it does leave us reliant on our bosses’ willingness to spend further time and energy on pushing HR to make the adjustment we believe they should have. They’re incredibly busy people in their own right. How hard and how much can we push for this? My boss has been OOO, so we haven’t yet spoken directly about this, and she’ll have a ton to catch up on when she returns anyway.

    Thanks for thoughts, if any. Reading AAM has been incredibly helpful.

    1. A reader among many*

      Adding–I feel like I’m piggybacking on my colleagues in the same pay band on this, to be honest! Their job, difficult and requiring skill and special licensure though it is, is at least one that fulfills a more common function and is more comparable to that of the people to whom we’re being compared. Frankly, I think they should be at a slightly higher level than those in the other department; my own position is harder to evaluate.

  95. Rosebud*

    I commented a few months ago asking for a little feedback on my resume – the update is that I got a new job! I’m so excited to be moving to a state much closer to family, getting a raise and a big title boost, and escaping my current manager :D

  96. Library Ethics*

    I know I’m very late to this thread but I’m hoping some fellow librarians will come across it.

    How much leeway would you say is too much when it comes to books that spread misinformation?

    I’m a firm believer in the freedom to read and freedom of information, and I also believe library collections should feature a wide variety of viewpoints and opinions. However, one of the libraries in my system has been adding books that are borderline conspiracy theories. Books with topics like “The New World Order is trying to control you!” or “Vaccines are harmful and Pfizer needs to be held accountable for their crimes!” I know that working in the library field means you have to leave your personal opinions at the door, and I don’t know how much I can do about it personally, but I feel really icky that we’re circulating this kind of misinformation.

    Librarians, what are your thoughts on this? Within the realm of “every book its reader” or going too far?

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