how do I manage petty behavior between two employees who dislike each other?

by Alison Green on November 5, 2024

A reader writes:

Where is the line between what is and is not acceptable when talking about pettiness between coworkers?

I’m dealing with two employees on the same team who simply do not like each other for a variety of reasons. Luckily, these two do not have to actually work together very often but sit in the same suite. They are both big personalities, have strong opinions, and can both come off strong. Apart from counseling them on being aware how they come across when interacting with each other, I’m at a loss for how to address the pettiness they’ve both adopted from the perspective of “you both need to remain professional with each other” — things like saying goodbye to everyone on the team except the other one, ordering dessert for “whoever wants some” with ingredients that the other is allergic to, not holding the door open for the other “without realizing they were there.” I have a hard time figuring out where the line is between “you are not meeting the expectations of appropriate conduct” and “come on, just don’t be a jerk” especially when one claims things like “you can’t prohibit me from ordering the dessert that I want and offering the leftovers to others.”

Their work performance is pretty solid. They’re both passionate about the work they do, execute it well, and are (for better or worse) both sort of “staples” of the team (subject matter experts and likely committed to being at this company for a long time).

The way to approach it is to focus on the outcome you want, which is “no one on the team can tell you don’t like person X.” They can feel however they want to about each other, but if other people pick up on those negative feelings, that’s a problem — because it will make the working environment uncomfortable for everyone.

So yes, of course they can order whatever dessert they want even if the other person happens to be allergic to it, and of course sometimes they might not say goodbye to absolutely everyone when they’re leaving … but rather than getting mired down in those details, focus on the outcome you need from them, which is they can’t make people uncomfortable with their behavior and they need to treat everyone with a baseline level of warmth and pleasantness.

I would frame it this way: “You need to conduct yourself in such a way that you’re not making this a negative work environment for other people. If people can tell you don’t like Jane, you’re not meeting that job requirement. If people perceive you as being petty or vindictive, then you’re failing at that. And I take that very seriously — it is an absolute requirement of being on this team that you treat everyone with respect and that you don’t make the rest of the team uncomfortable. Unless you truly need me to give examples, I’m not going to go through the pettiness I’ve seen instance by instance; I assume you understand what I’m talking about. It needs to change if you want to remain on this team.”

And you should hold firm on that line. Solid work performance or not, you can’t keep people who behave this way. They’re poisoning the environment for the entire team … and at some point the rest of your staff will start to worry about how they’ll be treated if they somehow end up on the wrong side of one of these employees.

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{ 191 comments }

{ 191 comments… read them below }

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      I agree, this was such a great answer to the question. People can feel any way they want. But if others can tell they don’t like the person they are not meeting your performance expectations as that is not healthy for your organization.

    2. tina turner*

      Yes. It’s about being PROFESSIONAL. That means you don’t indulge all your personal feelings, whether about politics / religion / or personal reactions to people. Warn them both & remind them how bitter they’d feel to be the one who’s “let go.”

  2. I'll have the blue plate special, please.*

    Agreed. Excluding someone on that fact you merely don’t like them is not okay.

    1. Arrietty*

      I’m not sure I agree. It’s about context and approach. Excluding someone from work interactions, absolutely not okay. Ostentatiously excluding them from social events in a way that makes sure they know about it, absolutely not okay. Not including them in social events entirely external to work is fine.

      1. Jellyfish Catcher*

        I’d say “no” on types of social events, as well. If you invite Everybody else in your office / team except that person, to some big party discussed around the office – that’s not ok either.
        Again…adulting.

        1. allathian*

          Agreed. Sure, you can invite your whole team to your wedding apart from one person, but only if you can trust that there won’t be any wedding talk at work once the invitations have been sent out, and they should be sent rather than handed over at the office. The excluded person should never know that they’re the only one who wasn’t invited.

  3. Nicosloanica*

    This is a tough management situation since these examples given are really small (I mean, that’s what makes them petty). Is the other employee complaining each time, or are these things you’re noticing? Is someone else complaining? You’d have a greater ability to weigh in if they were doing something with an impact on the work. I guess I’d try to care a little bit less if I could if it’s always things at this level.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I’m interested in the ripple effect of their dislike. Can I ask A for information and then follow up with B if it wasn’t clear? Can I invite people to lunch and not have to wait for a day one when one of them is out so they don’t make ME uncomfortable…”who is going?” or “oh, I’m not going now that I see her with her coat on.” Can you have a work lunch, a team birthday party? If there is a “town hall” style meeting is my staff forced to choose seating based on their comfort?
      How much emotional energy are their coworkers exerting over their nonsense?

      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        This exactly. Its forcing to choose sides. Oh I have to work with A on this project is B going to start freezing me out? What if I agree with B on thing they said will A start being petty with ME?

        And then the next thing you know you have a toxic team with good people leaving and no one wanting to join.

      2. Meep*

        This is bad, but I have a coworker with whose our “love language” is sniping at each other. It really freaked out one of our other coworkers (who is more conflict adverse) for the longest time. He thought we were fighting all the time, when in actuality neither of us were taking it all that seriously. She just likes to play the “everything sucks here” and I follow up with the “logic” of why everything sucks here. (She knows I don’t disagree with her. I just have the historical context she doesn’t have of why we made some of the silly decisions we did and why we cannot fix them right this minute like she likes.)

        Our interactions sometimes go like this:

        Jane: “Why was A designed in this way? It makes no sense.”
        Me: “Because if you are using our software, you should know x, y, z basic principals.”
        Jane: “How am I supposed to know that with no experience?”
        Me: “Well clearly you wouldn’t be using our software if you didn’t understand the fundamentals, right?”

        Our work is a niche of a niche of a niche field, btw. There are literally 10 experts in the entire world. People come to us because they have problems. Unfortunately, a senior dev who is probably one of those said experts and has worked with our founder (another expert) for nearly 20 years had control for a couple of years – which led to this mess of unless you know something inside out, our code base is going to be very confusing.

        She knows I am thrilled for it to be fixed and to stop this nonsensical logic, but the answer to “how” it happened will never be satisfying so we “bicker” about it when she asks with me being Crazypant’s mouth piece since he is no longer around.

        I don’t think this is the case here based on the food allergy thing alone, but I could see it also “just” being their dynamic.

        1. Roland*

          Imo it doesn’t matter if it’s “just their dynamic” – it doesn’t change the fact that it needs to stop.

          2. Dust Bunny*

            This.

            You can have that kind of dynamic . . . with your partner or friends, but if it’s contributing to tension at work it needs to stay home.

        2. Venus*

          Hopefully you laugh about it sometimes, and if someone asked you about it then you’d happily explain. The difference in LW’s situation is that everyone is noticing that there is a conflict, and the two people involved don’t view it as a positive relationship.

          In your case it likely works out well because it’s a way of venting about past problems and mistakes while also feeling like it’s fun banter. Sounds like Jane is a good person!

        3. Lady Danbury*

          This may not have been an issue for the two of you but it’s potentially an issue for the wider team and therefore management needs to nip it in the bud. It’s the work equivalent of the couple who likes to bicker about everything in public. There may not be any heat behind their arguments and the dynamic may totally work for them, but it still makes ppl around them uncomfortable, to the point where they may find themselves receiving fewer and fewer social invitations. Since people can’t choose to uninvite their coworkers to work, it’s up to management to ensure that workplaces are bicker free environments, as much as reasonably possible.

          1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

            > the couple who likes to bicker about everything in public

            Oh gawd, yes. I knew one of those couples. It was like spending time with that cartoon couple “The Lockhorns” (except that they were both interesting and pleasant people on their own).

            1. Gumby*

              I just now realized that the name of that cartoon couple referenced their arguing / fighting / bickering. Something about reading it here in text rather than next to the comic strip. Wow. How oblivious can I be?

              2. MBK*

                I always thought the Lockhorns looked too much like Jerry Stiller and Anne Meara to be a coincidence, especially considering how much of Stiller & Meara’s comedy focused on, shall we say, exaggerated relationship dynamics.

      3. A Simple Narwhal*

        This is a really amazing point. Because maybe it’s not pointing to immediate obvious declining work numbers, but give it enough time and it will.

        It also just sucks! It’s exhausting and makes you waste brain power that could be better utilized elsewhere.

      4. Dek*

        ‘Can I invite people to lunch and not have to wait for a day one when one of them is out so they don’t make ME uncomfortable…”who is going?”’

        Do. Not.

        From experience, if you wind up going to lunch with only one of them at a time (or all the time), it will make things significantly worse.

    2. MsM*

      I think that’s what makes the “I’m not getting bogged down in the details: you know what you’re doing, and it needs to stop” approach here so good. It doesn’t matter that the individual actions might be too small or insignificant to punish. It’s the cumulative impact and the tension they’re causing for everyone who doesn’t want to be dragged into this.

      1. Double A*

        Yes, and you avoid the kind of rules lawyering and whataboutism that can completely derail the point.

        1. Eldritch Office Worker*

          In my experience, there’s no way to avoid this completely. But not inviting it, and shutting it down when it happens, is so important.

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      Pettiness is a good tactic here (if your goal is battle), because if you just flat out start by setting fire to your opponent’s desk your boss will step in. But you will take the enemy down with death by a thousand cuts, smiling insincerely all the while!

      That’s why the advice to focus on a broad picture “No one should be able to tell you hate Doreen. And right now they can tell” is a good approach. Because if you try to specifically ban each petty behavior, then the miscreants will just get creative.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        I am very creative when I get petty lol. No one knows who I don’t like, but there are signs.

        1. kalli*

          If there are signs, then people can indeed tell who you don’t like. Either you’re not creative enough at being petty and pleasing yourself with zero outward effect, or people know.

          1. Eldritch Office Worker*

            They don’t. It’s things like Norm says below, or it’s how my notes (that they can’t see) look after our meetings, or it’s specific vocabulary that isn’t wrong or inappropriate it’s just different. People can hide their true feelings quite well a lot of the time.

            1. Lexi Vipond*

              I give the people I don’t like the worst Christmas cards out of the pack. But someone else might look at the pack and think those are the best ones!

          2. Jellyfish Catcher*

            And you should stop. Just because you are “better” at nastiness, that doesn’t make it somehow ok – work or otherwise.

        2. Priscilla Tells It Like It Is*

          I’m grown and life is too short for non sense. I just knit when people annoy me.

        3. Norm Peterson*

          I nearly always sign emails Have a great week(end)! The people I am annoyed by get Have a nice week(end). I don’t think that too obvious a sign but makes me feel better about the interaction.

          1. Glass*

            The aggressive period
            I use that, too
            “Thanks,” or “Thanks!”=thanks
            “Thanks.”=go eff yourself

            1. TeaCoziesRUs*

              Thanks! = legit thanks, I appreciate you. Two exclamations means you’re also a rock star.

              Thanks, = either purely professional interaction or ‘why hasn’t this been done already?’ level of BS

          2. RedWine*

            For me it’s ‘With best regards’, vs, ‘Regards’ or if I’m super-pissed off and writing a formal pissy email to some customer service dept or other, ‘Yours’

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      For what it’s worth, if the food allergy is like my niece’s ER-worthy peanut allergy, there’s nothing “petty” about bringing in the allergen.

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        I think that depends entirely on how well-advertised the allergen is and whether they take reasonable precautions against cross contamination.

        For example, bringing in a tray of cookies labeled “peanut butter cookies” to a break room where peanut products are allowed, and then telling the allergic coworker “I brought cookies to share! Oh, but I guess you can’t have any since they have peanuts in them,” is petty assholery.

        On the other hand, bringing in an unlabeled tray of something and not mentioning the allergen unless directly asked would be WAY beyond petty. So would bringing allergen-containing desserts to events or places that are typically allergen-free, or being sloppy about cross contamination.

      2. Nightbringer*

        That one and the door bothered me too. Both can have mild to serious physical consequences. I don’t consider that petty.

  4. Czhorat*

    I love this answer as well. It’s too easy to look at work reductively and care about nothing other than metrics, but hitting your targets while making everyone else miserable is a net negative.

  5. Smurfette*

    Ugh yes. This absolutely affects the rest of the team. It’s so unpleasant to be in an environment where there’s a constant undercurrent of animosity.

    And it’s difficult to respect your coworkers – however technically proficient they are – when they so obviously can’t keep their personal feelings out of the workplace.

    1. Putting the Dys in Dysfunction*

      And it looks like they’re not completely innocent in other places, e.g., strong opinions (often a euphemism for being loud, obnoxious, and unwilling to listen).

      There may be broader issues with these two.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      I totally agree that it colors the perception of the ‘problems’ by the other employees. I wonder how long the perception of them as well-respected SMEs with years of experience will last

    3. Funko Pops Day*

      Agreed. I had a former workplace that had this ongoing antagonism between two people, and it was just exhausting to be around. Plus it resulted in stupid turf wars and contrarianism and everything interpreted in the worst light possible. Exhausting.

    4. Elbe*

      100% agree with this. No one wants to feel like they’re working with (or managing) bratty children. Legitimate disagreements can come up at work from time to time and people need to feel like they can speak up without being the target of ongoing needling.

    5. JustaTech*

      I used to have two coworkers who often clashed, not in a petty way (though they were occasionally very passive aggressive), but just in a major personality mismatch kind of way and good grief it was exhausting.

      Like, I didn’t realize how much of my time and energy and mental space they were taking up until one got laid off and the other one quit and I realized that hey, I haven’t had to be a go-between or soothe anyone’s feelings or explain what she *really* meant or had to listen to one complain about the other and I feel so much lighter!

      Everyone’s got enough to do, no one needs to be managing their coworker’s feelings that much.

  6. dulcinea47*

    Every time there’s a letter about people needing to be civil to each other, I find I’m still bitter about getting blamed for not getting along with the coworker who literally wouldn’t even say hello to me. Yep still bitter.

    1. The Original K.*

      A woman at a previous employer was fired for not speaking (and being a jerk, generally) – she worked in the mailroom and you’d go in and speak to her and she wouldn’t respond. We worked in marketing so we’d get deliveries of swag, and she’d drop them at our desks – literally drop them from standing height (she was short, but still), without speaking, resulting in some broken stuff. When the woman was finally gone, everyone who’d interacted with her was like “thank God. WTF was her problem?”

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Yeah, see, that’s NOT a personality conflict/interpersonal issue. That is a coworker making you miserable. I’m all for turning the other cheek and working around the person if they “suck and aren’t going to change” but I’m otherwise happy. But telling me I have to act on this is nonsense.
      I learned years ago that you don’t have to accept an invitation to an argument. I will choose to walk away. Your boss was telling you it was not optional. Get in there and fix it. WTF?

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I learned years ago that you don’t have to accept an invitation to an argument.

        I’m adding this to my list of excellent AAM quotes (both from the blog itself and from commenters). I need to remember this WRT my father, who is a missing stair in my family and becoming more of a jerk with every passing day.

    3. Miss Chanandler Bong*

      Yup, I remember that coworker.

      I was fresh out of college and she just decided she hated me. Seven years later and for the life of me, I still can’t figure out why since I get along with basically everyone.

      1. OrdinaryJoe*

        I think we’ve all had that co-worker and it’s miserable. Throw in a manager who thinks it’s a You problem to solve or that it’s a ‘two way street’ and yep … out of there!

        I honestly think that some people get joy out of excluding one person in an office, like it makes them feel powerful or something.

      2. Ally McBeal*

        I had That Coworker fresh out of college, too – she was a couple years older than me, we worked on separate projects and had different managers, but both she and her manager disliked me instantly for reasons I do not understand, and became BEC towards me to the point where my manager called me into her office and said “you need to unfriend her on all social media platforms” – this was in the early days of Facebook when everyone added everyone, including coworkers – “because she’s spinning bizarre narratives out of your posts and tattling on you to her boss.” I never figured out what her problem was but I hope she’s having the career she deserves.

      3. Dust Bunny*

        We’ve all had that coworker (schoolmate, etc.). Figuring out why is a waste of time and mental energy.

        I’ve worked with people I actively disliked but I wasn’t willing to make the work environment worse for everyone (including myself) by escalating it with petty tit-for-tatting.

      4. different seudonym*

        Internalized misogyny is a sad thing to contemplate, but a helpful concept in many pink-collar situations and feminized professions. Also internalized homophobia in the really special cases!

      5. dulcinea47*

        Oh mine hated me b/c I got the job which she’d also applied for, but I was clearly better qualified. When I started I assumed she’d get over it, but I worked there for 7 years too and she never really did.

    4. Anon for This*

      Important point here. Are both really doing this, or is it just one and the other is being blamed because the two obviously don’t get along? (Like you, I got blamed because someone else didn’t like me even though I didn’t play the petty treatment games.)

      1. Lydia*

        It feels like the examples are from both people and not just one. The OP seems observant enough that if it were just one person, it would be clear.

      2. Ellis Bell*

        Worth considering, but it seems the examples are of both people purposely signalling dislike; even if I know someone at work dislikes me, they get the same civilities like greetings and the door opened for them.

      3. Anneke*

        It can definitely go in both directions. I was on a team where two of the others behaved like this. There were staplers and rules with their names written on them. There were more people on the team than desks, because we weren’t all rostered on at once, so it didn’t even matter and nobody needed their own stuff beyond pens. They were also perfectly happy to have anyone except each other use their named items.

        It was ridiculously petty for two fully grown women. I have some very petty family members so I’m used to not engaging with pettiness, so it didn’t bother me, but it definitely made me respect them less.

        My own attitude is that my feelings about you are not your problem. I’ve worked with many people I didn’t like very much, but I’ve always made sure to at least be civil towards them.

    5. Ann O'Nemity*

      I’m still a bit salty about this coworker who’s unpleasant to the point of outright rudeness and skips even the basics—hello, good morning, goodbye. We got thrown together after a reorg, and from what I gather, she was thrilled with her old team, boss, and division. Ever since the shakeup, though, she’s taken out her grumpiness on her new coworkers instead of, you know, the leadership team that actually made the changes. And what’s even more demoralizing? Management just keeps pretending not to notice, like ignoring it will make her magically pleasant.

    6. Cyclone*

      This is so, so frustrating. I had this issue with a former supervisor. Never did figure out what it was that made him dislike me from the start, but he vacillated between icing me out, reporting me to HR for things that never happened (he once wrote me up for not showing up to work at a conference session when I was already in the room when he arrived and sat with him during the session), and communicating with me exclusively via a physical intraoffice inbox.

      1. allathian*

        I had a similar issue with a former coworker. She was very business-driven and had little human empathy to spare. Our then-manager had a very similar personality. I had a difficult start to the job when I was hired (apparently on her strong recommendation, I later learned) to the point that it was touch and go whether I’d be let go during my probation period. But largely because they’d spent 6 months filling the position they decided not to fire me.

        I was very anxious and needed a lot of hand-holding to start with, which (understandably) annoyed her. I also kept making the same mistakes over and over, to which my anxiety no doubt contributed.

        I’m a morning person and typically greet people cheerfully when I arrive at the office. She was not, and preferred to be left alone until noon at least. If you dared to say hi, never mind a cheerful good morning, she’d only grunt back at you.

        My anxiety made me seek her help for every little thing, which understandably annoyed her, while her annoyance with me increased my anxiety even further. When things were really bad, we only communicated by email (we worked in personal, adjacent offices) and printed work product that we left in a wall inbox outside each other’s offices.

        The situation improved somewhat when I returned after a two-year maternity leave. Even then, our relationship was never warm, and about six months after my return she quit. Hiring her replacement took time, but I gained a lot of confidence from realizing that people were happy with my work.

        Now I sometimes see her at our annual conferences, and we have a perfectly ordinary professional relationship. We’ve even consulted each other over email sometimes, and exchange e-cards at Christmas (!).

  7. Peanut Hamper*

    This is similar to what I used to tell my middle schoolers when I was teaching: you don’t have to like me, and you don’t have to respect me, but you do need to act like you respect me.

    Amazing how it took the pressure off for some kids, and I just never had any behavior issues with them after that.

    1. UKDancer*

      Yes, we’ve found at work that telling people what to believe or what to feel about colleagues doesn’t work, but telling them how to behave and what they need to do works. People don’t have to like each other, they do have to be professional and civil and we can be clear what that means.

    3. Acronyms Are Life (AAL)*

      I like this. I’ve only heard ‘you don’t have to like a person, but you need to respect them’ and this puts it in an even more palatable phrase when you just clash horribly with someone.

    4. duinath*

      And hey, telling your manager they can’t stop you is very very middle school. If the hat fits…

  8. Margaret Cavendish*

    And if they do claim they need examples of the behaviour, be sure to make it clear that these are *examples,* rather than a complete list.

    Because as soon as you start giving a list, they’re going to start finding exceptions. You told A they couldn’t exclude B from the dessert order, so they’ve stopped doing that – but they’ve started sighing loudly and rolling their eyes when B is talking, because you didn’t specifically say they couldn’t. It’s not your job to come up with an exhaustive list of what’s included in “don’t be a jerk” – it’s their job to act like grownups and professionals in the first place.

    1. Annony*

      I don’t know that I would be willing to give examples. I would ask if they seriously need me to look into formal anti-bullying training or if they are a capable professional who can act civilly to coworkers. Asking for examples is not a good faith question and I won’t treat it like one.

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I think if they start asking for examples, they are turning it into a debate. How can OP not make this a debate? There has to be something between “you know what you are doing” and “you didn’t say goodbye to her yesterday.”
      Can OP just stick with, “whatever is going on between you two is no longer between you two. The way you treat each other is affecting the department. You clearly know how to interact with coworkers. You have functional relationships with other coworkers. I know you are capable of working with people. I need you to work with her.”
      Not get into ANY specific actions?

      1. Yours sincerely, Raymond Holt*

        Yes that’s a good answer. Behave towards [person] the way you manage to do with every other colleague. You know the difference.”

      2. Margaret Cavendish*

        That’s a great script. Alison’s answer seemed to leave the door open for this kind of request: Unless you truly need me to give examples… but I agree it’s a trap – better for OP to not even offer this as an option.

    3. Mobie's Mom*

      Yes, I agree with this and was coming here to say it! If they are petty enough to be doing all these things to/at a coworker, it seems likely they’ll be petty enough to want examples. If there was nice phrasing to add to Alison’s answer that says “you’re an adult, you know what I’m talking about” I’d add that, but Alison’s script is excellent!

    4. Kevin Sours*

      This is really important (and comes up a lot in discussions of online moderation policy). It’s one thing to provide structure and examples to people who are legitimately making a good faith effort to figure things out. But the people in this instance know what they are doing and if they want a specific list of rules it’s so they can say “I didn’t violate any of the rules you gave me” the next time they are on their BS.

      You need to be able to say “I need you to follow the spirit of the rules and not just the letter and if you can figure out how then we need to discuss if this position is workable”.

    5. Ellis Bell*

      Absolutely, and I think the overall level of behaviour to each other, as well as the argumentative stance with OP is jaw droppingly juvenile. I have to wonder if there’re other concerns with their judgement. Does “strong personality” mean they’ve wandered down an unwise track in this one instance, or are they both simply an absolute pill to be around? I appreciate why OP asked them to be “aware how they come across”, like they were talking to two grownups who care about their reputation and how they come across… but these are like preteens who only care about what can be explicitly pinned on them. I would be more inclined to go with lines more stern in tone like: “knock it off”, “You and I both know how obvious you’re being” and “I’m not convinced you’re trying hard enough to be civil”. But the fact you would even have to say these things is problematic.

    6. Glitsy Gus*

      Yeah, I also think, again, if they do claim to need examples, don’t focus on what THEY did, focus on “that meeting where I saw three people get up and move so they didn’t have to be near you two because you would not stop sniping at each other.” Keep the focus on how it’s impacting the team, rather than the specific instances of their crappy behavior.

  9. Dawn*

    “you can’t prohibit me from ordering the dessert that I want and offering the leftovers to others” is such a child’s response. It’s “you didn’t explicitly forbid me from this precise action, therefore I am exempt from discipline”. And it’s painfully obvious that they know exactly what they’re doing there.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Shower thoughts reply:
      “Funny, I can. I’m the manager. I can forbid you from having food delivered to the department at all. I can forbid food at your desks or for sharing food at all. But I’m not a petty jackass, so I’ll ask you not to be either.”
      ;)

      1. Pescadero*

        “Funny, I can. I’m the manager.”

        Might be true, might be completely out of the power of the manager, might even get the manager reprimanded… depending on employment law, the employment contract, and whether or not a union is involved.

        1. Lydia*

          I don’t think that’s even remotely true. Managers do have the power to implement some things in their departments such as food at desks or whatever, and I’m sure a union contract exists that says you can’t prohibit food deliver, although I’ve never seen one, but most importantly, Not Tom, Just Petty was telling us what their inside thoughts were, not what they would actually say in this situation.

        2. Statler von Waldorf*

          I’ve seen multiple union contracts, and I’ve never seen a union contract that would prohibit a manager from saying that. I’ve seen many clauses about meal breaks, but none of them mentioned food delivery or sharing. I have seen union contracts that specifically state where employees are allowed to eat, usually for safety or pest control reasons. None of them allowed eating at desks, because all of union workers I have worked with don’t work at desks. Their bosses are the ones working at desks, and since management is not part of the union, that clause usually doesn’t get included in collective bargaining agreements.

          There are no employment laws that I am familiar in any of the jurisdictions I work in that would prohibit such a statement either. You have to give your employees a meal break, but the laws are usually pretty silent beyond that. Do you have any specific examples of employment laws that would prohibit such a statement?

          Perhaps there are some Europeans with employment contracts that would cover these issues. However, for most of the people reading this in North America where employment contracts are not a thing, Not Tom, Just Petty is both factually correct and has won the internet for today for having the perfect username to go with their comment.

          1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

            > You have to give your employees a meal break

            I hate to say it, but this is not actually true in all states. :-(

            1. RussianInTexas*

              Not in mine*. But if the employee decides to provide one, then they have to follow the federal law.
              *with some exceptions for some industries.

            2. Statler von Waldorf*

              I wish I could say I was surprised. I’m a Canadian, and it is true in Canada for all the jurisdictions that I work in, assuming you work at least five hours. Usually I disclaim stuff like that when I comment because jurisdiction matters a lot in labor law, but I missed it this time.

          2. Turquoisecow*

            I have definitely worked places where management did not want people eating at their desks. You can 100% make the argument that there’s a risk of spilling liquids on to keyboards or other equipment, or crumbs attracting insects or rodents. And if the presence of food is causing interpersonal conflict it seems slightly petty but still reasonable to say “if the presence of food in the work area causes drama and hurt feelings then we will not allow food in the work area at all. Eat in the break room only.”

            1. Statler von Waldorf*

              That reminds me of an old story, and since my office is dead today and I’m bored to tears, I think I’ll share it. You see, I’ve actually heard of someone who got fired for eating at their desk and attracting pests back in the 70s. Though in this case the pests weren’t rodents, they were bears. Let’s call the dumbass employee Waldo. I’ll apologize to all the real people in the world named Waldo for associating them with this moron as soon as I can find them.

              They were working in a camp shack about a hundred kilometers into the bush. There were strict rules about food waste and storage, which Waldo did not follow. The rig manager noticed when the rodents started showing up, and wrote him up for breaking policies. Waldo promised he’d change his ways. He did not.

              Two days later, a family of bears showed up and shut down production on the rig, costing the company lots of money. One of the younger bears actually broke into the office camp shack and dragged out Waldo’s “hidden” illicit store of candy, at which point the rest of the bears demolished it. According to the stories, Waldo actually needed to be physically restrained and held back from fighting the bears over that candy. I did see an old faded polaroid photo of a bear eating a chocolate bar, wrapper and all, with a big grin on it’s face. This was over 30 years ago, and from what I hear that company still keeps that photo on the wall next the the safety bulletins as a reminder why these policies exist.

              That wasn’t just Waldo’s last day with the company, it was his last day in the industry from what I’ve heard. Oil companies really don’t like employees who cost them millions of dollars because they’re too important to follow the rules, and this story was too juicy to not spread like wildfire. Apparently, people interviewed him just to hear the bear story, but those interviews didn’t lead to job offers. He ended up moving away from the area, and I don’t know where he is now.

              Does this have a single thing to do with an white-collar office worker who wants to eat a sandwich at their desk and whether it’s appropriate for a manger to forbid it? Not really. But given everything that’s going on in the world today, I hope my silly little story was a nice little distraction for you.

              2. Danni Evans*

                +1,000,000 to “I will apologize to every Waldo… as soon as I can find them!” ROFL… I see what you did there! Also a hilarious story, but your storytelling makes it way better.

          3. Meat Oatmeal*

            From a union perspective, I could see arguing that it’s a change in working conditions that under some circumstances (like if the employees are working under an expired contact) would need to be negotiated with the union, not imposed unilaterally by management.

            But I think I’d want to pursue that only if the food-delivery ban was causing true hardship for other union members or if the management had a pattern of making unilateral decisions that are supposed to be bargained over, because this story is about some very petty nonsense.

        3. Arrietty*

          I’m in the UK where unions are common and employment laws are robust, and I’m confident that a manager would be allowed to ban deliveries of dessert in the workplace without repercussions, as long as it didn’t apply only to specific people for discriminatory reasons.

          1. Kevin Sours*

            Somehow I don’t think “lacks the maturity to order dessert” is a discriminatory reason.

        4. Glitsy Gus*

          I think this might be a good response, honestly. At least as an opening statement.

          Yes, I can actually forbid food on the floor and sharing of dessert on the clock. But that would mean punishing the whole team for YOUR antics. I don’t want to do that. Honestly, it would make more sense to remove the problem person than make things harder for everyone. I don’t want to do that either, but I need this nonsense to stop one way or another.

          This is obviously an escalation, but based on the letter, I think OP might really be at the point of telling them something like this.

        5. Glitsy Gus*

          I know this is not a good response, but my knee-jerk response to a statement like that would be: “Seriously? Are you 12?”

      2. Margaret Cavendish*

        @Not Tom, I know this is your regular username, but I love how appropriate it is for this conversation!

    2. Reality.Bites*

      But it’s an odd hill for OP to die on.

      Why should anyone take anyone else’s tastes/allergies into account when ordering dessert for themselves? It’s not a situation of bringing in treats for the office and excluding the one person they dislike.

      My response wouldn’t be “You can’t prohibit me” but “what kind of conspiracy theorist freak are you for thinking I’m eating desserts as a weapon against Hortense?”

      I agree with needing to be professional and not letting the dislike be apparent, but I’m not convinced that the dessert and the lack of good nights are strong evidence it’s actually happening.

      1. Harper the Other One*

        Having worked with someone like this, I’d bet the behaviour makes it obvious. “Oh look everyone, I ordered this DELICIOUS cake and there’s enough to share… oh, but Fergus, you’re allergic to coconut, aren’t you?” and “Good night, Bob. Good night, Wakeen. Good night Arya.” are both things I’ve seen happen.

        1. Harper the Other One*

          Ah, hoist on my own angle brackets! That should read “Oh look everyone, I ordered this DELICIOUS cake and there’s enough to share… [nasty grin] oh, but Fergus, you’re allergic to coconut, aren’t you?” and “Good night, Bob. Good night, Wakeen. [pause for a beat while staring pointedly at dislikes coworker, then skip them] Good night Arya.”

        2. Lady Danbury*

          This. When I was growing up my parents used to tell me “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.” I’m sure the orderer made it clear that she was ordering her dessert in a way to be exclusionary, even if she didn’t explicitly state “I’m trying to exclude Hortense.” Sometimes tone alone says everything you need to know.

      2. SarahKay*

        Which is why Alison advises OP not to get into details. Maybe the dessert and the goodnights are truly not part of the pattern – but there’s a big enough pattern that they sure look like it!

      3. Annony*

        This is why examples are a bad idea. Each instance is minor and not indicative of a problem but when there is a pattern, there is a problem.

      4. Hlao-roo*

        As others have pointed out, the thing with pettiness is that each individual action doesn’t look that bad and/or can be explained away, but the pattern is often noticeable.

        Also, there’s a difference between an occasional “hey, I baked cookies last night and left some on the break room table. They do have walnuts in them, Hortense, sorry about that” and a weekly “I’m going to order almond-flour chocolate cake from the bakery with pecans and walnuts sprinkled on top, does anyone want in?” when Hortense is allergic to nuts.

        There’s also a difference between saying good-bye to the office suite in general/not saying good-bye to Hortense because she’s not at her desk when you’re leaving for the day/not saying good-bye to Hortense because she has headphones in when you’re leaving and saying “good-bye, Fergus, good-bye, Jane, good-bye, Robert” and pointedly not saying good-bye to Hortense.

        Because the letter-writer took the trouble of writing in, I’m guessing the dessert-ordering and not-saying-good-bye are more at the “I am doing this AT you” ends of the spectrum.

      5. So Tired*

        I think you missed when LW said that one of them was ordering dessert “for whoever wants one” with ingredients the other is allergic to. That’s not just a dessert for one person, it’s a deliberate attempt to single out the coworker they don’t like by ordering something for everyone else that the person literally cannot eat. That’s different than just ordering for themselves.

      6. dulcinea47*

        the lack of hellos with my former coworker would be like… literally only two of us in the room and I said “hello”. Silence. There’s no way that’s not purposeful.

      7. Lenora Rose*

        If they brought in leftovers of a lovely dessert they ordered, they obviously intentionally ordered enough for the office. They didn’t buy one slice of cake.

        1. Arrietty*

          Even as a one off or occasional thing, this would be okay. As a vegan, you get used to people bringing stuff in that you can’t eat, and it’s not intentional or mean. The issue here is that it clearly is, because of the wider pattern and however it’s being communicated.

      8. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        You’re the only one dying on hills. The manager clearly has a problem between 2 reports. And here you are, pretending the manager is the problem. And second guessing if they’re really sure their own employees are being petty. You don’t need to be convinced.

        Also, drawing conclusions from how we interact with each other is hardwired into humans – that’s not what conspiracy theories are. But your OTT reaction sure sounds like the kind of self-excusing fake innocent behavior a lot of passive aggressive people engage in. “You can’t prove I did nasty thing on purpose, therefore you have to treat me like I didn’t, and actually you’re the problem for even suspecting me.”

    3. Jam on Toast*

      Ouch, this is behaviour every parent of a teenager recognizes. It’s a passive-aggressive power move designed to make it seem less painful to just give them their own way and make you doubt your own reasonable requests.

      Alison’s right. Whether it’s teenagers or coworkers, it’s the impact that matters and not defining an exhaustive (and exhausting) list of petty behaviours they’re engaging in. There’s no way I’d want to experience this level of pettiness on a day to day basis among adult co-workers and looking askance not only at Petty1 and Petty2 but their manager as well..

      *And for anyone still in the teenage trenches, hang in there! I am pleased to report that I survived the Junior Jams’ teenage years and now have two lovely, responsible young adults who are employed, financially independent and able to sort their laundry and cook their own meals!

      1. Dawn*

        Little kids do this a lot too, in a bit of a different way. Ask any elementary teacher.

        “You said we couldn’t open the closet, but I didn’t open the closet, I fell on the closet handle and it just happened to open” except more in kid-speak. Or “I didn’t take the ball from Jenny, the ball was sitting on the floor (narrator: five seconds after Jenny threw it) and I just picked it up off the floor and started playing with it” or “you said not to hit Billy and I didn’t, I bit Billy”

      2. A Significant Tree*

        My first thought is that this advice seems appropriate for my teenager, whether they’re behaving like a jerk to a teacher or a sibling they hate. There’s always the response of “but you need to give me all the examples” of bad behavior I’m calling them out on, or “but you need to give me a reason I’ll accept” for why they should, you know, stop behaving like a jerk.

        Fingers crossed I have the same future successful young person as Jam!

      3. learnedthehardway*

        I salute your success in producing civilized human beings!!

        Mine are well on their way to being civilized as well. One thing that worked with teens (and may work with employees) – get them to focus not on each other, but on you. When mine were sniping at each other, I’d set them to work (separately) doing something they disliked. They would be so annoyed with me that they would forget that they were annoyed with each other, and would even complain about me to each other. After awhile, they caught onto that tactic, but by then, they had learned enough to appreciate that I was making them get along.

        1. allathian*

          One advantage for the parent of having only one teenager/kid is that there’s no sibling arguments to deal with. Holy crap, when I and my sister were teens, we lived in cramped conditions (500 sq ft apartment, my sister and I shared the bedroom while our parents slept in a curtained-off area of the living room) and fought all the time. My sister’s frankly said that that’s one reason why she’s childfree by choice, even though we have a great relationship now, and it’s certainly one reason why I wasn’t at all sad when I realized that there would be no siblings for our son.

          Sure, he’s 15 and sometimes surly and has to be reminded to do his chores, although he’s pretty good about cleaning his room (he’s more houseproud than I am), and homework. And we’ve told him to blame us if his friends want him to do something he doesn’t want to do. But he’s introverted enough that peer pressure has much less effect on him than more extroverted kids, if someone doesn’t want to hang out with him because he doesn’t want to do something stupid, he’ll just shrug and go hang out with someone else.

          For some personalities, if there is a reason they can accept for something, being told what to do will be easier to accept at any age. I’m 50+ and I still get rebellious when I hear “because I said so” type reasoning.

  10. H.Regalis*

    I do not envy your situation, LW. You have shown a lot of restraint in not locking them in a room and forcing them to watch Daniel Tiger until they learn not to be jerks.

    2. Heffalump*

      If you locked me in a room with some of my past toxic coworkers, the expression “two scorpions in a bottle” would come to mind.

      1. H.Regalis*

        Well, either they learn to be reasonable people or they take each other out. Either way, their coworkers will be happier XD

  11. Justme, The OG*

    Agree with this. There are people I work with or interact with in my life that I just don’t like. And nobody will ever know.

    1. jtr*

      Yes, exactly! It’s not that hard to be polite and pleasant to someone you don’t like. I’m an introvert anyway, so just dealing with people I do like takes energy. This just takes a skoosh more.

    2. Unkempt Flatware*

      Yep, like someone said above, how someone feels about me is not my business. And on the other side of the coin, me disliking someone is my problem and no one else’s. That is why I keep it to myself and treat them just like everyone else.

      1. Zelda*

        how someone feels about me is not my business

        I’ve had some coworkers who very much made it my business– sabotaging my work, trash-talking [everyone in group A, of which I am a member] to clients, etc.

    3. samwise*

      Yes. This is something I learned when I first started teaching. There will be students you do not like, but it is tremendously unprofessional and harmful to let it show. I used to spend a lot of time making sure my comments were scrupulously polite and helpful and my face and demeanor were attentive.

    4. Glitsy Gus*

      It was actually a big relief in my life when I realized I won’t like everyone in the world. Additionally, not everyone will like me. This isn’t a bad thing! It is totally OK! You can be perfectly neutral while interacting with someone and move on with life. Don’t let them get to you, because, hey, you don’t really like them anyway, and as long as they are also neutral, everything is fine!

    5. JustaTech*

      Seriously this. I have an aunt and an uncle (husband of another aunt) who did not like each other. Like, for decades they didn’t like each other. None of the kids ever knew, because they were both perfectly friendly/cordial to each other whenever the family got together. I think some of the adults knew, but it was never “on display”.
      And I’ve always really respected both of them for being able to keep their disagreement off the public stage.

  12. essie*

    Ooooo I work with two people like this. Very, very similar behavior. Let me just say, it absolutely kills the culture when two people are allowed to get away with such ridiculous antics. It’s so disheartening to watch coworkers behave so poorly, causing discomfort and frustration, with no consequences. Plus, it can very easily impact work. I always think twice about involving either of the two coworkers in any project, I avoid working with both as much as possible, and I’m always walking on eggshells around them. Definitely work to address this before it infects your team. You definitely don’t want others thinking this is acceptable.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      “it absolutely kills the culture when two people are allowed to get away with”
      This part. Shout out to OP for dealing realizing it, naming it and asking for help dealing with it.
      This is a management issue. Managers who step back are letting them get away with something. It’s no different than the people who come in late when they need to be there or refuse to check email. It is 100% a performance issue.

  13. Kristin*

    Also, I wish people would not refer to difficult employees as having “big” or “strong” personalities or opinions. In my experience, petty behavior derives from an inferiority complex, a deep insecurity and immaturity, and conflict-oriented choices. It’s small-minded, beehive thinking, not strong, secure, or competent, no matter their actual work output. Truly strong employees are pleasant, drama-free and humble.

    1. Lady Danbury*

      Strong has multiple meanings. It can also mean intense/prominent/forceful, as in a strong cup of tea or a strong scent. It’s not incorrect to say that they have strong personalities.

      1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        Strong like a foul scent. Like skunk spray.

        It’s isn’t incorrect, but it is an excuse. “Oh, that’s just how I am” should not be acceptable in a professional context.

        It’s also self-aggrandizing. “I’m such a big deal, I can’t possibly tone down my behavior, *you* need to change to accommodate me.”

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      Agreed. I have a good friend who I would describe as having a big personality, but she’s kind and caring. She’s boisterous and energetic and loud but wants everyone to have a good time and always makes sure everyone has a chance to talk. She could pull off a feather boa at the grocery story.

      Meanwhile my former coworker with the “big personality” stole credit, snapped their fingers at people, refused to answer clarifying questions and then yelled at you for getting it wrong and then threw you under the bus for the resulting delay.

      They are NOT the same.

  14. I should really pick a name*

    I think the examples brought up are sufficiently small scale that it would be hard to take action based on them.

    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I think the examples are death by a thousand cuts as someone writes above. It’s a brilliant plan for them to smite their enemy. “You didn’t say hi to A yesterday.” “you bought yourself food that B can’t eat.” In a vacuum, calling these things out sounds absolutely bonkers level micromanaging.

      1. I should really pick a name*

        What I find interesting is that I probably wouldn’t even notice if they were doing those kinds of things to me.

        1. Clisby*

          Same here. I’m retired now, but I paid very little attention to what people did aside from work – specifically, work I was involved in. Saying “Hello” or “Goodbye?” I couldn’t care less. Treats? I almost never wanted the treats people brought in – I don’t like sweet food – but I didn’t interpret it as the entire office being against me, just because they generally liked sweets.

          I’m surprised that the OP didn’t cite any actual work-related examples of this pettiness. Are these people deliberately excluding each other from important meetings? Deliberately not copying them on important meeting notes? Refusing to work together if needed?

          1. SarahKay*

            But these are work-related, in that it is making an unpleasant atmosphere for everyone else working with them.
            Even if the two of them are not actually messing directly with each other’s work, Alison has often said that just getting the direct work done isn’t enough; people also need to behave professionally. And these two aren’t.

            1. HB*

              Yeah – the issue isn’t really about how these two at all. It’s not about getting one of them to say hi to the other, hold the door, or being more inclusive with snacks… it’s about a pattern that is clearly noticeable to other people in the office.

              Most likely they’re limiting their hostility to these small acts because they know enough to know that things that affect their work product are going to get shut down much more quickly. They’re basically pulling the adult version of “I’m not touching you.”

    3. Margaret Cavendish*

      Yes, and that’s exactly the problem. Which is why OP should address the *pattern,* rather than going down the rabbit hole of which specific behaviours are actionable.

    4. Glitsy Gus*

      That’s why you don’t focus on them. You focus on the impact to the team. “Multiple people have told me they are uncomfortable when you bicker.” “Team members do not like working on a project with either of you because they are uncomfortable with the way you treat each other.” Focus on the impact, not the nonsense.

  15. Office Drone*

    If you do end up needing to give specifics, it’s not the allergen in the dessert or “not seeing someone” that’s the problem, it’s the exclusionary behavior. If the whole team knows that Buffy is allergic to pecans, and you offer pecan pie to “whoever,” bringing in pecan pie obviously excludes Buffy. If you say “Good morning” to everyone but Muffy, and everyone notices, then you’re excluding her. On a team where inclusion is valued, deliberate exclusion is noticed.

  16. Cabbagepants*

    My rule of thumb is to not single anyone out. this also works for staying professional with a crush.

  17. Abogado Avocado*

    It’s very common for people to meet dislike with dislike. But if you really want to drive the other person crazy, be nice as pie to them. Say hello, and please and thank you to them. Don’t meet their snark with snark; don’t raise your voice when they’re yelling. Instead, drop your voice (they have to stop yelling to hear you) and ask if they’re okay. Or, you can look puzzled and walk away. Trust me: people who are itching for a fight hate it when you won’t engage. And, the best part is: while you’re doing this, you can be gleeful inside that you’re making them nuts that you won’t fall to their level.

    1. bamcheeks*

      Yes, I’ve done this a few times with people. The other thing is that it works to trick me— if I get into a conflict with someone, I get all the anger and cortisone and bfaster heart rate and so on that comes with it, and it takes a while to get back to normal! If I see someone spoiling for a fight and stay completely professional and warm, I walk away with a perfectly normal heart rate thinking, “goodness, Mark really was spoiling for a fight, what a frickin’ weirdo” and carry on with my day.

      If either of your reports is slightly more reasonable, LW, you could counsel this approach. But it sounds like neither of them are!

    2. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      “if you really want to drive the other person crazy, be nice as pie to them.”

      That wouldn’t have worked for me at all! Years ago, I befriended a new co-worker named Ellen. We didn’t live anywhere near each other, but both of us took a bus that went north on the NJ Turnpike and wound up at the Port Authority bus terminal in Manhattan in order to get to work.

      She started coming in late all the time and always said that it was due to a traffic tie-up on the turnpike or a breakdown in the Lincoln Tunnel. I was always asked if I had come across a traffic tie-up or breakdown, and I always said no, because I hadn’t. Even if I had lied, it wouldn’t have mattered, because I always got to work on time.

      Instead of trying to get to work on time, Ellen decided that I was the problem, because if i weren’t always getting to work on time, she would be able to get away with getting to work late. So she decided to pretend that I didn’t exist. We didn’t work in the same department, but our departments worked very closely together. Any time that I had to ask her a question, I had to make sure that her supervisor was nearby, because if I asked her something and he wasn’t nearby, she wouldn’t say a word. She would pretend that I wasn’t there and obviously hadn’t asked her anything (because I wasn’t there). I was always pleasant and professional whenever I had to ask her a question, but it did no good. Whenever she had a chance (when her supervisor wasn’t around), she pretended that she just couldn’t hear me, and she pretended that she didn’t see me.

      It wouldn’t have done me any good to complain to her supervisor, because as far as he could tell, any time I asked Ellen a question, she always responded promptly. I didn’t know how to convince him that she didn’t act that way when he wasn’t around. And I couldn’t have complained that she acted that way because she was always late, because I would have been told that it wasn’t any of my business if she was late or not.

      So I continued to act pleasant and professional, and it did NOT drive her nuts. She continued to ignore me as much as she could. I wouldn’t be surprised if she had hoped that I would quit, so that she could get to work late and not have anyone point out to her that I had gotten in on time. But what happened is that she left the company before I did. But up until she left, she continued to ignore me. I don’t see how I made her nuts or drove her crazy.

      1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

        Well, you didn’t see her reacting outwardly, but I’ll bet you were still frustrating the hell out of her.

      2. Strive to Excel*

        I would have started asking her questions whether or not he was around, then when she pretended you didn’t exist emailed her the next day CCing her supervisor. “Hi Ellen – I asked you about XYZ today, but haven’t heard from you.”

        Doesn’t matter if it’s because you’re not late or she is. Don’t go there. If the supervisor asks why, you have no idea and you’re as confused as they are.

  18. Mike*

    This is a perfect representative example of why I read this site. As with so many other questions, I never would have thought of this solution, but once I read it, I thought “well of course; that’s the perfect way to handle it”. Thanks for doing this, Alison…I can’t speak for everybody, but you’ve made me a better manager through the work that you do.

  20. Harper the Other One*

    Last comment is spot on! A great benchmark might be “would a new entry level employee see your behaviour and be anxious about approaching you with a question afterward?”

  21. Anon for this*

    Would you give the same advice if the person one employee has conflict with is the manager? When I first started managing, a formerly-friendly coworker decided she didn’t like or trust me anymore (part of it was definitely envy — she didn’t want to be the manager, but she was pissed that I’d been offered the job and she hadn’t). I don’t think I was actively fueling any of it, beyond certain things that I non-negotiably required from her as her manager.

    At the time I chose to focus on the things I needed from her work, which wasn’t up to scratch, but she also couldn’t be civil to me but wasn’t so rude that any one thing was worth calling her out on. I didn’t want to be the Tone Police, but my grandboss make a couple of sort-of jokes about declaring that her interactions with me needed to score at least thus-and-such on a verbal hostility metric.

    I think if I’ve wanted to pursue it, “I need you to act in such a way that it’s not obvious to me that you hate me” would have worked better than anything I considered and discarded, but because the message was coming from me, I’m still not sure it wouldn’t have degraded into pretty brangling. Thoughts?

    1. WellRed*

      I think you should have addressed it, especially if you were managing anyone else for the same reasons other commenters have said. To or suggestion of what you might have said, I think it’s fine, might add “do you think you can do that?”

    2. HB*

      I think it would have been more like “I need you to act in such a way that an outside observer would not pick up any hostility.” The first way you phrased it makes it a bit more subjective, which gives her some wiggle room to argue. But an outside observer is a reasonable person standard – which is probably the same standard you would use when measuring whether her actions in the first instance, but semantically it removes you from the equation. That can be useful for both of you. For you, it’s easier to focus on her actions rather than your *reaction*. And for her, it means she has to start thinking about how her actions appear to *others* which might give her a bit of distance.

      Pretending for a moment that she’s a perfectly reasonable human being who just has a bad case of BEC when it comes to you… if you say “I need to make it not obvious to me that you hate me” her focus is still on you – in thinking about how *you* might interpret her tone/body language/etc but with BEC syndrome, the more you think about the person the worse it can get because you’re focusing on the thing that makes you act a little irrational. With the other, she needs to start thinking about her words and actions in a hypothetical context. That gives her some distance, which can be helpful when dealing with a purely emotional reaction.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      Oh yeah, this is teacher territory. The fact that it’s being directed towards you actually makes it easier to address, because a) it’s the behaviour that matters, not who’s the target and b) As the target you’re also the prime witness! Your statement is inarguable; you get to say what the actual effect on you is – never mind the intention. I really like what Peanut Hamper says above, but there are a few tools in the kit for this one. 1) Responding civilly but giving the petty/off tone behaviour or words a bit of a beat, and unwelcome spotlight with your own behaviour/tone/responsiveness: This can be a pregnant pause, a raised eyebrow, saying “is everything alright?” or “are you okay?” etc. Basically responding like you would if someone had said “I’m not happy” or “Ugh” out loud. 2) Say what you see: a lot of the time we respond to silent signs like body language or voice tone with our own body language or voice tone instead of words, but you can dispel the myth that you aren’t going to call it out: Ask what the sighing means, say “I don’t know if you realise, but you’re rolling your eyes right now” or “you walked away when I was talking”. Whatever is said in response, if it’s an excuse like when OP’s employee said: “I didn’t see someone coming through the door behind me”, don’t argue, just respond with “Well, I’m letting you know”, “Just be more careful”, or “Hmmm”.
      3) Tactical ignoring: If it’s not the time to get into it, and you feel like you’re being goaded into a conversation before you’re ready for it, just distract and deflect and don’t pick it up until you’re ready. Just be determinedly unflustered and make a note for addressing it later.
      4) Big picture conversation where you don’t get into the details but you state the pattern and that you know you’re both aware of it (This is probably where I’d use Peanut Hampers wording). Really important that you’re not trying to convince them of something you and they already know with details or proof; be confident that your concern is enough. Phrase it as “Being civil and professional is something you know how to do, and I have every faith you can turn this around. This is very basic stuff, and of course you know how to do it”.

  22. Friday Hopeful*

    There is nothing worse than having to show up to work everyday in anticipation of someone else’s pettiness, passive aggression, or downright rudeness. It also makes the work environment crappy for all the other co-workers.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      For me, even being the bystander to the sniping or awkwardness is SO uncomfortable. I know OP says the two problem children are established and not likely to leave.. but as an employee that ‘isn’t affected’, that situation and framing would really encourage me to start looking around.

  23. Tony Howard*

    We had two team members like that, both department manager level at a hospital where I was the CFO and also their immediate supervisor. I tolerated their behavior for far too long I confess, until the pettiness finally reached a breaking point: my boss, some of the medical staff, and other employees were noticing . I remember we brought them into a conference room: with me, my boss, and HR. My boss , the hospital CEO, did all the talking. One of them was visibly shaking and on the verge of tears throughout the entire meeting as my boss was making clear in no uncertain terms that either their behavior changed, or we would let them both go! It was a very tense and uncomfortable meeting I still remember to this day, many years later. One of them started to take notes, like a scribe . And my boss shut her down quick: “put down your pen and pay attention!” Anyway. It worked. Problem solved. They never became after work drinking buddies , but we never had to deal with their crap again.

  24. CubeFarmer*

    I have two coworkers whom I don’t much like personally, and I think I’m happy to say that you wouldn’t know it from my interactions with them. I stick to professional matters, involve them in projects as needed, and silently thank myself that I don’t have to deal with them more than I do. One is a snob, and has said some terribly tone-deaf things to me (which I’ve promptly called out and then dropped once I made my point.) Another one basically went behind my back about something a few years ago–I can’t trust her.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Same, I always have at least one person at work whom I intensely loathe, but I am an adult and a professional and it doesn’t stop me from be cordial to them or working with them just like anyone else when need be! It’s wild to me that people behave like the employees in the letter. Like, I’ve seen people do this kind of thing so I know it happens, I just can’t imagine behaving that way.

      1. CubeFarmer*

        I can think of times when I was not this professional, unfortunately. It’s a result of getting older, and losing my work “group” during the pandemic. It’s fine. I can be friendly with all my coworkers (even the ones I don’t like much) without having a friends group. In fact, I think it’s a little better if I don’t. I can focus on work and not socializing.

        I just got promoted and now I’m in another part of the office. I’m amazed at how much my fellow directors socialize. I’m not anti socialization, and I don’t fees excluded from it, I just don’t want to socialize as much as they do. I have actual work to do.

      2. allathian*

        Oof, I’d hate to be in that situation, honestly. Sure, I’ve had to work with people I disliked at times in my career, but certainly not all the time. In the past,I’ve decided not to put my hat in the ring for participating in a few projects where I intensely disliked the PM. I would’ve done it if my manager had ordered me to, but because those projects were extra, I could simply not volunteer.

        Elsewhere on this thread I’ve described a difficult relationship with a former coworker. Everyone could absolutely tell that we didn’t like each other, but in my then-team nobody could’ve cared less as long as the work got done. Both my then-coworker and then-manager were very task-oriented, and my boss didn’t see anything wrong with our relationship as long as there was no actual bullying, which she defined as physical violence. Sure, I wanted to punch my coworker’s eyes out occasionally, but I managed to restrain myself. It was very unpleasant while it lasted.

        I guess I’m lucky in that I have a very collegial relationship with all of my teammates and people I regularly work with. When I go to the office, I can do small talk or go to lunch with anyone, and talk about more than just work with the vast majority. But I don’t feel any need to socialize with any of my coworkers outside of work hours.

  25. HB*

    Questions/answers like these are part of why I find this blog so invaluable. There are so many issues that have simple (sometimes obvious) solutions if you simply reframe the scope of the problem.

  26. Hawk*

    I was in a workplace like this. About half of the pettiness was directed towards me and a dwindling number of coworkers until I was the last one left. It was a preexisting issue, and unfortunately I came in on the “wrong side”. The thing is, you have to nip it in the bud now, or it’ll spread to the point where it was when I came in and get worse. Two of my managers saw through it and made every effort to stop it, but as they were only dotted line managers (more like a shift lead) and our real managers wouldn’t do anything to manage the behavior. It got to the point where they would just talk over me during our in-person meetings (which my best manager shushed immediately).

    Then we got a new manager who ended up being just as petty (she was a longstanding manager who had been close with some of the original team). I transferred out as soon as I could. My replacement, who I see every few weeks, has picked up the pettiness (and the behaviors that they amped up to) and now is exhibiting it at my new workplace when she visits, and it’s resulted in both staff and customer complaints. They have a new manager, but I haven’t seen much in the way of changes.

    Nip this in the bud, OP, for your current *and* future staff. You will lose staff over this if you don’t

    2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      No, it isn’t a mistake. Rules lawyers will argue you to death if you provide examples. This isn’t “you know what you did” without that actually being true. This is telling them “I know you don’t like Cheryl. But I shouldn’t know that. You need to behave professionally towards all your coworkers equally.”

      1. Kevin Sours*

        One cannot treat people acting in bad faith the same way you treat people acting in good faith.

  30. Kevin Sours*

    Honestly this really stands out to me ““you can’t prohibit me from ordering the dessert that I want and offering the leftovers to others.” because that reads like the intended message is “you are not the boss of me”. It’s a power play and needs to be dealt with.

    People are commenting that the examples are too petty to be actionable, but this is very much the office version of “I’m not touching you”, is about as mature, and needs to be dealt the same way. Both of these people need to be sat down independently and told “This stops now. If it doesn’t I will find a way to stop it”.

  31. Hyaline*

    I might offer a slight variation on this, though–maybe the best benchmark is “no one should be able to tell you don’t like each other” but more “you cannot make others uncomfortable with your words, actions, or exclusions.” The reality is, two people can be 100% cordial and professional and perceptive people will still pick up on, “You and Susie aren’t friends, huh” or “Bob dislikes Stan.” What they HOPEFULLY get out of that is “You and Susie aren’t friends, but hey, you can collaborate on projects without a problem” or “Bob dislikes Stan but he never lets it get in the way of work.” Whether or not others can “tell” may not be the best benchmark–I feel like it can be an open secret that two people aren’t each others’ biggest fans as long as that reality doesn’t impact the function of the group. When it becomes uncomfortable because they’re sniping, undermining each other, playing the freezing each other out game, or other actual actions (or intentional inactions), that’s where you can point to the issue.

    1. Strive to Excel*

      I think with this particular pair, “people should not be able to tell that you dislike each other” is the best take. For people who are not taking Petty 404 classes, it’s good advice. You don’t have to click with all of your coworkers and be good friends – you just have to be good coworkers.

      However, when someone is behaving on the bad side of a spectrum, they lose the right to the middle. These two need to *aim* for “people shouldn’t tell” because they’re not going to be perfect and they’ll end up landing at “they aren’t each other biggest fans bug they can cooperate together”.

    2. Colette*

      There’s a difference between someone you dislike and someone you don’t click with/aren’t friends with. I’m not friends with billions of people I don’t dislike. I work with people I will never be friends with but who I don’t dislike.

      But if someone can tell you dislike someone else in a work environment, either you’re out of line, or something is very wrong in the company.

      1. allathian*

        Maybe it’s just semantics, but for me at least “someone you don’t click with” equals “someone you more or less actively dislike”. You can’t make people like each other, and I’d argue that you shouldn’t even attempt to make people behave as if they like each other when they don’t.

        Being neutral towards one another and not making the other person’s work harder than it needs to be is as much as you can require people to do.

  32. A_Jessica*

    I’ve been/am currently on the receiving end of a misinformation campaign by a petty mean girl in my office. It absolutely bites; one of my former work friends took her out her word and that friendship imploded

    What’s worse is my manager won’t say anything to this lady; due to a mix of him hating to manage people and her acting out of pocket anytime she’s confronted.

    All this is to say definitely take their behavior seriously.

  33. Another Kristin*

    Yeah, as my mom always used to say, you can’t control your feelings but you CAN control your actions. Your employees can cordially dislike each other to their hearts’ content but they can’t behave like this.

    1. allathian*

      Absolutely! They don’t have to pretend to be friends or even friendly but they need to stop making their mutual dislike obvious to everyone else with their actions.

  34. Strive to Excel*

    Unless OP thinks that one of these people is legitimately clueless about the social bad feeling they are stirring up, I would not offer to give examples. That is a one-way road to endless rules lawyering. I would simply say “you are expected to behave in a professional manner. People can tell you are being vindictive. This needs to stop, immediately. If it does not, X consequences will occur.”

    This doesn’t sound like either of these people are clueless. Quite the opposite: this level of pettiness shows a fine mastery of boundaries. In that they know exactly how to drive someone crazy ‘within the bounds’ of social norms.

  35. Lana Kane*

    “You need to conduct yourself in such a way that you’re not making this a negative work environment for other people. If people can tell you don’t like Jane, you’re not meeting that job requirement. If people perceive you as being petty or vindictive, then you’re failing at that. And I take that very seriously — it is an absolute requirement of being on this team that you treat everyone with respect and that you don’t make the rest of the team uncomfortable.

    I supervised 2 coworkers who did work together, and behaved this way. We sat down together to go over the situation and Alison’s answer is where I landed with them. I wasn’t telling them to like each other, but to not put their dislike of each other on other people to absorb (and that I considered this a job requirement for the sake of having a functioning and healthy team). Fortunately, they both agreed on that point. It was the only thing that worked for them.

  36. Maxouillenet*

    it’s funny ( because coincidental) At my sheltered workshop, we have a supervisor who tends to listen too much to all our conflicts.

    Maybe it’s because she’s young and still at school (school of social work, as we’re disabled workers, all our supervisors have to have a background in social work) and on a sandwich course, and at least she intervenes when it’s serious, but she also tends to take an interest in minor conflicts

    .recently ( last week) she was clearly listening to a coworker was complaining about another coworker: “Alice (first name changed), I don’t like her,etc” (well, as this supervisor is only on a sandwich course, she’s clearly a supervisor in training and not our main supervisor,but sometimes we’d like her to remember that she’s still a supervisor and that she should tell coworkers that yes, sometimes we work with people we don’t like and that we have to deal with it).

  38. Delta Delta*

    I worked with two people who just couldn’t get along. Eventually one bullied the other one out the door (and then proceeded to bully out about 26 other people, so I think we know where the actual problem was). The boss refused to do anything and basically said they’re both adults and they can figure it out. Except they couldn’t and they wouldn’t. Had he firmly told them both to stop it there might have been a difference.

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