I saw colleagues’ private messages mocking my weight

by Alison Green on November 19, 2024

A reader writes:

I recently hosted a Zoom call for my work team. At the end of the call, I was sent the transcript for the meeting’s group chat, as it contained important notes. I was also accidentally sent the transcript for a private chat between my coworkers “Lisa” and “Natalie.” I thought we were on good terms. But during that brief chat, Lisa told Natalie that if she ever weighed as much as I did, she’d kill herself. Natalie replied with laughing emojis.

While I’m not sensitive about my weight, this gutted me. I feel humiliated and wish I’d never seen it. I don’t think either of them realizes I saw it. I’m hesitant to contact HR because a) I dread other people seeing the transcript, b) I hate conflict and disruption, and c) I don’t want Lisa and Natalie to lose their jobs. But I don’t know how to move forward without addressing this.

I answer this question — and two others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • Should managers not set their online status to “busy”?
  • Is it unethical to start a business competing with a former employer?
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{ 161 comments }

{ 161 comments… read them below }

  1. lurking quietly*

    I’m sorry you saw those comments. Think of how you would want to see this handled if they were talking about a lovely coworker. You wouldn’t want them to get away with thinking this is ok. You are worth at least that much.

    1. Please can I sleep some more...*

      Totally agree. Lisa and Natalie felt comfortable sharing those comments during a work meeting, even if they thought it was a private chat. The comments themselves are cruel and shows a lot about their personalities. I can totally see their mean and unprofessional attitudes being directed towards other people in the office.

      3. Elsewhere1010*

        Not to mention that Lisa and Natalie have terrible judgement. 25 years ago I was an IT trainer and even back then I was telling new hires to never write in any electronic format (OK, back then it was just email, but still) anything they’d be embarrassed to see projected on a wall and visible to all the other employees, their parents, and members of law enforcement.

        2. Heart&Vine*

          This! And this is why I never friend coworkers on social media or talk smack about anyone on a work platform. If there’s even a 1% chance that someone you work with could stumble on something you said that could negatively impact their view of you or put your job in jeopardy, it’s not worth the risk.

    2. Just Another Cog*

      I am 100% on board with Alison’s advice to forward their petty little conversation to both of them with her suggested wording about how stuff isn’t private on work computers. Let them squirm. Not sure how I feel about escalating it further, though. OP sounds like she doesn’t make waves, I get that. But, those two need to know how hurtful that was – also very unprofessional! Lisa and Natalie are jerks. *internet hugs* OP.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        I want to watch the world burn a little more than the letterwriter does, so my commentary on the forwarded transcripts would probably be a bit more vague (I am torn between thinking it should be sent to the offenders and their manager(s) without comment for maximum chaos or with a simple “Unfortunate.” for extra shame) but I think forwarding them and their manager(s) the transcript so they know it happened and you saw it is the right move. This is totally a YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID situation.

        1. kathjnc*

          I would 100% be on board with this watch the world burn approach. Letterwriter, I am livid on your behalf, and frankly you are a better person than I am for being concerned about Lisa and Natalie losing their jobs. Actions have consequences, and this kind of cruelty towards another human being is utterly unacceptable.

        2. Luna*

          I’d like to highlight their conversation and leave it on theirs desks after hours and let them sweat it out who it’s from.

          1. Smantie*

            Even better would be to send the conversations to their managers, print the email out and leave it on their desks – with sender name redacted, of course.

        3. Ellie*

          I’d forward it to their manager. If I was their manager, I’d want to know that this had happened. And it will also make it harder for them to retaliate against OP which, lets face it, lots of people have a tendency to do when they’re embarrassed.

          Ultimately I think it’s the right thing to do, for OP, but for them as well. If you say nothing, they will do it again, to someone less forgiving than OP is. This is an opportunity for them to take some accountability, and apologise to OP. Don’t rob them of that.

    4. Baked Alaska*

      I could not agree more.

      I’m so sorry this happened to you, OP.

      I hope you’ll consider forwarding their messages to HR. You deserve protection. Please also consider that bullies and predators almost never target just one person. By standing up for yourself, you’re standing up for all the others that these bullies have felt free to target.

      With respect and admiration for your courage and kindness,
      XO

      1. Festively Dressed Earl*

        This +1000. OP says they don’t want the mean girls to lose their jobs over it (and if it’s a one-off, the MGs likely wouldn’t be fired anyway), but what if this is a pattern and OP has only seen this one incident? It’s one thing to be forgiving about a bad thing that happens to you personally, but quite another when letting the perpetrators off the hook allows them to do the same bad thing to others.

    5. LaminarFlow*

      What a thoughtful response.

      LW, the Lisas and the Natalies of the world will likely never stop. But, this situation bothers you enough to write to an advice column. That’s the check engine light on the dashboard of your brain telling you to speak up.

      I’m sorry this happened to you. Lisa & Natalie can suck it.

    6. RagingADHD*

      Honestly, even if the coworker wasn’t lovely in either appearance or behavior, they don’t deserve to be mocked like that. Because mocking people’s appearances is never okay, and if they wanted to vent about a coworker’s behavior they should stick to the subject.

  2. Peanut Hamper*

    #1:

    For the hundredth time, anything you do on a work computer can definitely be seen by other people, including your IT, probably your manager, and possibly your coworkers. Proceed accordingly.

    For the millionth time, please be a decent human being. You never know what someone else is dealing with.

    1. AnonInCanada*

      This. If you want to do the modern-day equivalent of passing notes to your classmate under the desks, then do it with your own equipment and your own mobile data. Or better yet, just don’t do it at all. After all, the teacher may catch you doing it. :-P

      1. NotBatman*

        Also: even if a coworker said this in a setting that *wasn’t* recorded, I’d seriously question their character and go out of my way to avoid them. What a horrible thing to think, much less express out loud — not only is it mocking someone’s appearance, not only is it discriminatory, but it’s wishing death on a coworker and joking about suicide on top of that. The fact that Lisa put this hatefulness in writing is valuable information for her manager to have.

        1. OhNoes*

          I agree with everything you say about character, it’s gross behaviour for sure – but I’m not sure where it said they ‘wish[ed] death on a coworker’? They were being rude and childish about her appearance, but I don’t think they meant they wished her harm.

          1. not nice, don't care*

            Yeah, those comments were obvs uplifting and positive /s.
            Of course they wished her harm. That’s the point of bullying/mean-girling.

            But maybe you mean the part where one of them said they would kill themselves if they weighed what OP does.

            1. Saturday*

              Of course the comments were horrible, everyone is agreeing with that. OhNoes is just saying they don’t see anything about wishing death on a coworker (I don’t either). But their comments were still completely messed up and cruel.

              1. OhNoes*

                Exactly that, yes.

                The ‘mean girls’ made cruel comments behind someone’s back (or so they thought), and it showed a real lack of both moral character and professional judgement. I’m so sorry for OP that she had to put up with their shittiness.

                In my view that doesn’t quite imply they ‘wished death’ on her, although I can see why some might feel differently.

                1. Reb*

                  it’s the if I weighed that much I’d kill myself comment. it implies since OP weighs that much, they should have killed themselves already. I’d like to doubt they literally meant they want OP dead, but I’m running low on faith in humanity.

          2. Nobby Nobbs*

            Maybe they didn’t literally wish death on a coworker, but they definitely said she was better off dead than fat. That’s nasty.

          3. ee*

            It’s not explicit, but I do think “I’d kill myself if I were like Jane” comes with at least a slight undertone of “Jane should (want to) kill herself” – the coworkers probably don’t truly think that, but I think the implication IS there and is part of why “jokes” like this are so very painful when overheard by their targets.

            1. Wendy Darling*

              I think there is a subtle but meaningful difference between “I think Jane is better off dead” and “I would prefer death to being the way Jane is,” but they are both godawful things to say and folks need to learn to keep those thoughts between them and their therapists.

              Also tbh there are a lot of people who I think would prefer death to being as fat as me and those people are, themselves, a major component of the reason being fat sucks.

              1. Grizabella the Glaimour Cat*

                Yes to all of this, especially the part about how people who think being fat is a fate worse than death being “a major component of the reason being fat sucks”!

        2. Festively Dressed Earl*

          For the absolutely horrible record: I think Mean Girl Coworkers are riffing on a comment Elizabeth Hurley made eons ago, something like “If I was as fat as Marilyn Monroe I’d kill myself.” Arguably Hurley’s crack was even worse considering Monroe did commit suicide, albeit not because some nonentity thought she was fat. And no, that doesn’t come anywhere near excusing MGC’s behavior.

        1. Chick-n-boots*

          Excellent advice. If the staff are on the younger side they will think you are writing in a foreign language.

          (FWIW, that’s a real anecdote from my life LOL)

    2. FricketyFrack*

      I work in government, so as an additional bonus, anything we do can also be subject to an open records request. I have a newish coworker who has only ever worked in the private sector, and I had to explain to him that yes, IT can see anything you send me in Teams, and if he ever discussed something specific and we got a records request about it, the public can *also* see it. I swear, we need a class about, “Don’t say anything on work equipment that you would be embarrassed to see on the front page of the newspaper.”

      (To be clear, he wasn’t sending anything inappropriate, I just made a joke about how I’m sure IT would love something he said, and he was like, “wait what?”

      1. Kyrielle*

        Yup. Heck, even in private industry that can happen in the event that it’s part of a lawsuit. Been there, done that, handed over 1GB of emails and data files. (Those poor lawyers, having to dig through that – anything that mentioned the client, for goodness’ sake!)

      2. Observer*

        I have a newish coworker who has only ever worked in the private sector, and I had to explain to him that yes, IT can see anything you send me in Teams,

        That’s also true in private employment. In fact, sometimes private employers are even worse than government. So his surprise that *IT* could see it is a bit surprising.

        1. FricketyFrack*

          Most of his past experience really wouldn’t have involved much in the way of IT, so I wasn’t totally surprised he didn’t think about it. A lot of it was hands on, minimal tech kind of stuff before now.

        2. Bananapants Modiste*

          I have worked in IT/system administration/network operations, and yes, I could see *anything* a coworker and/or customer did in our network or on our equipment, right down to emails and accessed external Web pages.
          I’ve even had to hand over data on what customer when logged on to Ebay via my employer (an ISP) based on a court order – in this case because of Ebay fraud.

          In other words, don’t write/mail/message/say stuff on your company network/equipment you can’t read to the CEO.
          Same goes for code comments (and I’ve see some doozies bite the developers).
          And don’t commit illegal stuff on the Internet or your phone. There always are records somewhere. Don’t rely on “secure” social media because they ain’t. It just takes a little longer to get hold hold of said records.

    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      One of the reasons I’d never have wanted to be 100% remote is that some conversations I want to have f2f only, no written record, not even phone records

      1. CeeDoo*

        I do that (teacher). I’ll go to the AP or counselor and say that I need to talk to them without putting anything in writing. It’s very common. I am very aware of not putting into writing anything I wouldn’t want on the front page of the paper. (a very dated reference, I guess. Who reads newspapers these days?)

    4. Steve*

      As an added recommendation, don’t plan your affairs on work computers! My grand-grand-boss did this 15 years ago, and the consequences were most severe for him because he’d used a work computer and had asked the IT folks to delete his emails. It was a government computer and he was charged with obstruction of justice. I never understood why he didn’t use hotmail or gmail or anything else, because otherwise no one would have cared.

      1. Wayward Sun*

        I once worked at a place where a coworker’s messy divorce turned into a very expensive public records request. It turned out they had never deleted any of their email, ever.

    5. WillowSunstar*

      Agree 100%. Don’t say anything on a work computer you don’t want getting back to the wrong person.

    6. Falling Diphthong*

      But what if I make the unprofessional comments after throwing a handful of glitter over my shoulder and shouting “By the elf on the shelf!”? Can IT still see my comments then? I feel like this is a very valid invocation of a stealth mode; probably it’s what the NSA does.

    7. allathian*

      IT may be able to see it, but in any reasonably run company they’re busy enough not to do it unless they have a particularly good reason to look. That’s not to say that they may or may not have installed a keyword search algorithm to flag any sus messages….

  3. ACN37*

    100% say something to HR – and management needs to make people aware of what makes it into the transcripts. If it were me, I’d personally let them know I saw it (but I am also very honest and straightforward, often to a fault). It could also be very triggering to someone less secure than the OP.

    2. Military Prof*

      I agree–there are few companies that want to have bullies working for the company, and this is, at its heart, bullying behavior, even if the two people involved never intended for the victim to see it.

    4. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Yes, I’d have forwarded this to HR, maybe with a request that they organise some sensitivity training – I don’t know if you can train out nastiness, but at least you can train them to keep such opinions to themselves.

      re the OP’s concern that those 2 shitebags would be sacked – I wouldn’t care and anyway it is their bad conduct, not the OP’s.
      She should not feel responsible for protecting their jobs.

      1. Observer*

        re the OP’s concern that those 2 shitebags would be sacked – I wouldn’t care and anyway it is their bad conduct, not the OP’s

        Agreed. The OP is right to not looking to get them fired. But they don’t need worry about it otherwise.

        Also, I would be surprised if they did get fired. If they do that would be an indicator that there is a lot more going on, which would *certainly*not on the OP.

        1. StarTrek Nutcase*

          Just to say, I wish employees including supervisors would remind themselves that if an employee does something wrong, than the responsibility for any consequence is on that employee. It is NOT’ on the reporting or injured employee. We need to remind ourselves we can’t care more about their job than they do.

      2. Nah*

        Yeah, if they’re this bold to be cracking these comments IN A FREAKING MEETING about the person RUNNING IT, there’s almost no way they aren’t saying nasty or derogatory things about other coworkers and/or clients.

  4. Peanut Hamper*

    For #2, my boss does this a lot, but I can also see his schedule in Outlook, so if he’s not available and I have a dire question, I will check to see if he’s just authorizing time cards (which doesn’t require much brain power in our case; he’s just blocked off time to do it) or is working on a technical report (which does require a lot of brain power) and proceed accordingly. Sometimes I’ll even preface a message with “I don’t need an answer right away….” so he knows it’s not urgent.

  6. HiddenT*

    The first one reminds me of the time I accidentally saw the IT guy’s chats to a coworker likening me to Rebel Wilson because I had singing training and was fat. It was not meant in a complimentary way.

    You’d think an IT guy would know better, but to be fair that entire company was super toxic.

    1. Manders*

      To be fair, one of our IT guys was fired for being caught in a multi-stall bathroom at work enjoying some, um, “videos” ON A WORK LAPTOP!!!!!

  7. Ellis Bell*

    OP1, if they’re talking about you, they’re definitely talking about other people. This isn’t about you, as much as they’ve tried to make it so. The fact that they’re also doing it on easily viewed technology speaks to their basic inability to function around others in a modern workplace. If it helps, try to depersonalise it as flagging up a serious lack of judgement that probably goes outside of this (very poor)
    example of their standards. As to your concerns: a) You don’t necessarily have to show the transcript; try “Lisa and Natalie made some pointed and insulting comments about my appearance that needs addressing with them. I have a transcript, but unless they deny saying anything I would rather not have anyone see it. That’s how bad it is.” b) As for conflict and disruption, just address that part too “I’d like an apology/it not to be mentioned again (or whatever outcome you want to see). I expect there to be no retaliation obviously, and I would like things to be cordial going forward”. and c) I don’t think this would be a fireable offense alone, but for their own sake in this, or future jobs, and that of people who work with them, I would send up a flare that this kind of behaviour is Not Okay.

    1. dulcinea47*

      there will 100% be retaliation tho. Lisa and Natalie won’t be pretend-nice to LW’s face anymore. If you’re childish enough to insult someone like that you’re definitely childish enough to be petty when you get caught.

      1. Ellis Bell*

        Sure, that instruction would not be for the childish ones, but for the manager or HR to put them on notice about behaviour required to keep their jobs. Unlike OP, I think these two do need to get fired; not because of one incident, but because they’re unlikely to behave better. But I would offer the chance for them to do better. Either way, it’s not for OP to handle personally unless they want to.

      2. NotAnotherManager!*

        I’ve been in this situation as a manager, and I can tell you that the people in question were monitored closely and specifically told that any retaliation would be a fireable offense. (Their comments weren’t as egregious as Lisa/Natalie’s here, but they were unnecessary, unkind, and not appropriate in a professional environment.)

        Word also got around about their behavior – this was their own fault as, in their complaining to peers about the situation, one of the kindest, most well-regarded people on the team immediately responded to their story that they were glad to hear there had been consequences to their behavior because it was quite mean and not something they wanted to hear/be a part of. That kind of set the tone that no one was going to put up with their BS.

    2. Tess McGill*

      OP, I’m so sorry that this happened. It sucks that they’re not the people you thought they were.

      I agree with Ellis Bell’s advice above.

  8. Typity*

    Poor OP — I hope she decided to address it, if only so those twits could be duly mortified.

    Anecdote alert: Along with a partner, I used to lead the singing at one service in my church. I thought I was on pretty good terms with the organist, but when he went on vacation, he left a note for the fill-in with detailed instructions in which I was referred to as “the fat woman” throughout. “The fat woman will signal to start the offertory song” and so forth. He left this on the organ for the fill-in — and anyone else who wandered up there — to find.

    I thought it was funny, but it obviously could have been devastating for someone more sensitive.

    1. Roy G. Biv*

      Yikes. And that was because he had no idea of your name? Or he was just a rude idiot? Imagine the fill-in organist asking the choir, “Hi everyone, now who is this ‘fat woman’ he keeps mentioning?” vs. “Hello all – I’m looking for Typity.”

      Yikes again.

      1. Typity*

        Just a rude idiot — we’d been working together for a couple of years by then. He could so easily have said “the gray-haired one” or “the one on the left” if he was so averse to using my name!

      2. Silver Robin*

        I was thinking the same! Name or, lacking that, position (choir lead or whatever) would have fulfilled the same requirements. Comments on physical appearance are so beyond unnecessary.

    2. Goldenrod*

      WOW, Typity, how massively stupid of that guy! I’m glad you had the self-esteem to laugh at it, he is clearly an idiot, so that was the correct response.

      1. Typity*

        It was a little startling. He wasn’t usually a jerk — or at least had the sense to keep his jerkness to himself!

        1. Sunny Day*

          Did he not see the irony of treating you this way in a church, of all places? What has he learned about love and kindness? Would Jesus call you “ the fat woman?!” In addition to being rude, he’s a hypocrite, big time.

  9. Lilo*

    HR needs to handle that. You can’t expect an employee to be able to personally deal with that extreme level of cruelty.

    FWIW that is absolutely a fireable offense.

    1. Middle Aged Lady*

      Yes! They are cruel, stupid, and not paying attention in meetings. Who needs coworkers like that?

  10. Frosty*

    Letter #2 – people are often unavailable because they are in meetings or because they need to get something done. With the rise of messaging systems during COVID, we can just message or email a boss and they can respond when they can. I will “teams” my boss asking a question like this all the time: “When you’re around can I talk to you for 10 minutes about the Fergus file?”

    If the job has emergent issues that arise frequently (mine does) there should be someone designated as the primary contact, with a list of descending next-in-line. If XYZ happens and we need to know what the response is: if Boss #1 is busy, where is Boss #2, #3, etc.?

    Sometimes Boss #3 doesn’t know the answer, but they feel more empowered to interrupt Boss #1 than a worker does.

    My boss will also say “I’m closing my door but I’m here if people need”. Maybe your boss could clarify different “levels” of unavailability – a range between “I’m working but available for urgent needs” and “do not disturb for any reason short of an office fire”.

    It feels very normal to me that managers and bosses are blocking off time.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Ideally the boss would realise the issue and inform his team that if ever they need him they should send an EM request and he’ll get back to them at his next free moment.

    2. Drago Cucina*

      Because I’m always cold and easily distracted (squirrel!) I would often keep my office door closed. People knew they could knock and ask a question.

      I had a special sign that stated, “Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with mayonnaise,” that I would hang on my door. (I don’t like catsup/ketchup.) I would also list on my schedule.

      Everyone knew it was because I was writing a grant, report, etc. So, if it wasn’t an emergency they would wait. A closed door isn’t always a closed door if the groundwork is laid.

  11. Jane Bingley*

    There are situations where it’s reasonable to attribute a mean comment to a moment of thoughtlessness. This is so far beyond that it’s hard to wrap my head around – it’s both deeply, deeply cruel to both LW and incredibly flippant about suicide. I know it sucks to have to face, but in LW’s shoes I would definitely report and they should face real repercussions for their cruelty, including apologies and/or getting fired.

    1. CeeDoo*

      One of my coworkers once accidentally sent a text about me to me. It wasn’t cruel in any way, but I’ve never forgotten it. (It said “CeeDoo keeps moving my cheese!”)

        1. CeeDoo*

          Yep. I was renaming files because they had named them funky. In order to make all the file name words line up neatly in file explorer, they had put weird excessive spaces in them. There wasn’t a reason to need the filename words to line up neatly in the explorer. It’s hard to explain, but it was strange as heck.

          1. Rosemary*

            LOL are you me?! I get so put out by foolishly names files! I feel like I am constantly renaming things.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      I don’t think Alison’s description of “emotionally stunted” can really be improved upon. It’s where the Venn diagram of thoughtless people and cruel people overlap. They probably don’t even think of it as referencing suicide; all they care about is using hyperbole to put someone else down so they can feel somewhat superior. All they care about is they’ve found another thoughtless/cruel person who will not challenge them, but will let them continue to be this unexamined and shallow. They don’t have either empathy or common sense.

    1. MigraineMonth*

      I think they should re-take preschool, since that seems to be where their emotional development got stuck.

  13. Apex Mountain*

    You’re very considerate to not want them to lose their jobs, but frankly they don’t deserve your kindness. I would think this is HR or at least manager material, but of course that depends on your perception of their competence

  14. IT Relationship Manager*

    I have had a similar interaction where someone said to me “I had a dream I weighed 300 pounds and I was so scared. If I actually weighed that, I’d kill myself.”

    It’s just really hard to hear when you are a fat person and that others would rather not live at all than live how many people have to. It’s not about being sensitive about your weight. I would hope that thin people would find this inappropriate to say as well. Imagine if someone said, “if I ever lost the use of my legs, I’d kill myself” about a paraplegic. It’s rude and a huge reflection on that person’s character.

    I wouldn’t ignore the whole situation and I liked Allison’s answer to loop in the supervisors.

    1. Goldenrod*

      Why are people so awful??? What a crappy thing to say. You would think people would know better by now, but our society is so fat phobic, it becomes normal to say horribly offensive things like this.

    2. Elsewise*

      >Imagine if someone said, “if I ever lost the use of my legs, I’d kill myself” about a paraplegic.

      Not to derail, but people absolutely do say that to disabled people all the time! Several of my friends in wheelchairs keep a tally of how many complete strangers say, completely unprompted, that they’d rather die than be in a wheelchair or be disabled in general, and the frequency is honestly shocking to me as a not visibly disabled person. (Another friend with a disabled child had a fellow parent tell her, in front of both children, that she’d rather her own kid die than have the support needs hers did.)

      1. Observer*

        Another friend with a disabled child had a fellow parent tell her, in front of both children, that she’d rather her own kid die than have the support needs hers did.

        OMG! That’s utterly monstrous!

        The “I would rather die than be in your position” is one thing – it’s often meant as an expression of “Oh, you’re so brave I can’t imagine how you do it!” It’s still stupid and no one needs to hear it, but when said to someone with a visible disability it may not be *meant* cruelly. Most people I know don’t even want to hear “You’re SO brave!” But this is 10x worse.

        But what this woman said is a whole different level. Cruel to the mom, and cruel to *both* kids. And even though it’s also (barely) possible that it was meant the way I mentioned, a functioning adult should understand just how bad it is, and why.

        And before anyone jumps down my throat, it’s pretty obvious the the LW’s coworkers do NOT mean it in the “she’s so brave” way. Which is why I agree with all the people that say that if these people had gotten fired over this, I would not be too sad.

      2. Judge Judy and Executioner*

        I didn’t see your comment before I submitted mine due to lack of refresh, but you are right. People say this to people with disabilities ALL THE TIME. It’s never appropriate and always unkind.

      3. Chick-n-boots*

        The world rarely surprises me anymore with it’s general awfulness but the comment that parent made about a disabled child IN FRONT OF THAT CHILD has left me utterly gobsmacked. I mean the absolute AUDACITY.

    3. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      People are mean. Someone straight up told me “If I couldn’t use my hands I would kill myself” when I was undergoing serious issues and surgery affecting the use of my own hands. Many people have no filter, and whether it’s about weight or disability, say super unkind and thoughtless things. I really wish people just stopped saying “If I had _____ I would kill myself” because there are zero times it’s appropriate. I agree that the person needs to report the comment, if they say that in a chat what else are they saying?

      1. Jill Swinburne*

        I would have very much liked to reply “you’d have a hard time doing that without using your hands”. I really wish people would stop using “if I…I’d kill myself” as hyperbole – it’s not clever, it’s not funny, and it minimises all kinds of struggles that people go through.

    4. WS*

      Ha, yes, I’m fat AND disabled so I get both kinds of comments! A friend with a moderately disabled kid has had people tell her she should let the kid die, it would be better for everyone. Another disabled friend who had a baby was met with great incredulity that she had a)married, b) had sex, c)had a baby, d) could look after said baby.

  16. Amelia*

    Ooh, I wish there was an update for this. I’d love to know if OP confronted Lisa and Natalie and how they responded.

    1. Pizza Rat*

      Someone checked the original post, but it looks like there weren’t any comments from the LW or any updates elsewhere. I’d like to know what happened too.

      Bullies need consequences. Not to be told to apologize (which will never be sincere), but something real and effective. I would go for a written warning saying if it happens again, there will be a PIP and follow through.

  18. CommanderBanana*

    Your coworkers are horrible.

    Also, this is a reminder that everything and anything you put on Zooms, Teams, Slack, whatever, can be discovered.

    1. SALC*

      I feel like if this message was shared with HR they’d probably go digging to see what else these coworkers are saying to and about people over email and IM and I’d bet they’d find plenty of doozies

    2. Chick-n-boots*

      I found this out relatively early on in the pandemic because one of our agency heads said something in a private message to another agency head in a meeting I was running….and I saw it in the chat transcript. It wasn’t anything necessarily worth flagging for anyone but boy did it leave an impression! I made sure to note at the start of ANY meeting I was running where we were recording to mention that feature because people really think that “private” chatting in Zoom means no one will ever see it.

      I really hope the OP took Alison’s advice, forwarded the page of the meeting transcript with their terrible comment highlighted in yellow with that absolutely perfect note and CC’d their managers. That would have been perfectly cutting and also just a master class in being professional and classy.

      OP, I’m so sorry you had to read that. It sucks when you can’t un-know how terrible people really are.

    1. Goldenrod*

      Yes, THIS. If I were their supervisor, I wouldn’t fire them, but I WOULD embarrass the heck out of them, and apologies would definitely be a part of it. I’d probably make them go to a few trainings too.

      1. Cookie Monster*

        Nooo, don’t make them apologize. Forced apologies are not good for all involved. Even if they could somehow genuinely apologize, the LW said she doesn’t like disruption or conflict. The supervisor should take their cues from her.

      2. metadata minion*

        If they actually have a moment of self-reflection and realize they were horrible, they’ll apologize on their own. If they don’t want to apologize on their own, everyone involved will know how awkward and fake the apology is.

    2. Elsewise*

      I really like Alison’s suggestion of forwarding them the messages and cc’ing their managers. I know LW doesn’t want the messages shared, and I get that, but if I were in her shoes (and as a fat woman, I’ve gotten comments like this before, though thankfully never at work), I think it would be worth it.

  20. CubeFarmer*

    Lisa & Natale SHOULD be called out and SHOULD be embarrassed. They were way, way, way out of line.

  21. Tradd*

    My manager will be unavailable on Teams daily, but it’s usually because he’s in a Teams meeting.I just send him a message I need to talk and he gets back with me (he’s primarily in another office an hour away).

  22. Cinnamon Stick*

    Wow. Talk about things that shouldn’t have happened. I have to wonder who else their little clique is talking about when they think nobody hears.

    Nastiness like this needs to be addressed, I hope it was. I get wanting to avoid conflict, but this is not acceptable behavior in an adult in the workplace. Or anywhere really.

    1. Observer*

      I have to wonder who else their little clique is talking about when they think nobody hears.

      Yes. And that’s why it would be a good idea to cc their boss(es) when the LW sends them the message. Management should realize that there is a fair bit of nastiness under the surface, and they need to deal with it.

  23. KayZee*

    There is no private chat in Zoom. Assume someone will see what you post, even if it’s to just one other person.

    1. I Have RBF*

      This.

      If you want private chat, use Signal with disappearing messages. Anything typed on a work resource is discoverable and able to be seen.

  25. Lizbrarian*

    This is why you should download GroupMe or WhatsApp for extraneous non-work conversations. Not that what you discussed is EVER ok. Having a GroupMe for my closest work friends has definitely been a useful pressure valve during a poorly handled reorg.

    1. Formerly Ella Vader*

      Oh yes. Even when it’s not making mean personal comments like Natalie and Lisa, it’s good to have side-channel conversations like “Why are they bringing this up again? We decided at the last meeting” “I know, this will waste half an hour!” by text message or Facebook messenger or some other medium that’s not tied to the call.

  26. SunnyShine*

    #1 There’s already conflict in the workplace caused by them. You didn’t start anything, they did. As a manager, I would be mortified to hear this happened and no one reported it.

    Please bring it up to HR. Sometimes admitting how embarrassed you feel can help. People often feel similar to you.

  27. AstridInfinitum*

    At our first big company Zoom meeting after we got sent home for COVID, one of my friends direct messaged me something very snarky about the information being presented. I texted her, “Hey, just so you know, the transcript of the meeting will include direct chats.” So we did damage control in Zoom to walk back the snark and continued it through texting. What a time.

  28. RosesHaveThorns*

    I am so sorry that the LW for #1 had to deal with this kind of bullying. People who write things like that are terrible and need to be dealt with.

    Back when we all went remote during the early, bad days of COVID, I was a VP. Everyone was still learning how Teams worked, and a group of three rather scummy and misogynist “bros” accidentally put some really nasty comments about one of my reports (a very nice, but insecure young woman, about her looks, weight, calling her a pig, etc.) in a public chat channel (they meant it for a private one) and a dozen people on a call, including my report, saw this. She was in tears.

    We reported it to HR, but they did nothing except ask the “bros” to apologize and not do it again.

    So, since VPs actually had some power there, I made their lives hell with the explicit intention of making them quit, or getting them fired. For example, one of them was doing a finance presentation to a group of several fairly senior folks (several directors and managers), and I totally destroyed him. Called him out for a typo (“A child knows how that word is spelled”), for poor presentation skills (“You really need to come to these presentations better prepared. This is terrible work. You should be embarrassed.”, “This is garbage. What do you do all day?”), etc.

    One complained to his (female) boss who, when I reminded her of what he had said to my report, basically told him to “grow up and stop whining”. HR was as useless to him as they were to my report who he savagely bullied. One of the others, I removed from several important projects, and put him on a garbage project and put a bunch of unrealistic and unobtainable objectives as part of the project, then totally destroyed him in front of his boss when he didn’t meet them.

    I was successful in getting two of them to quit, one after I managed to get him on a PIP. One sent a hilariously angry email to me and our CFO on his way out the door about how poorly he was treated.

    If you can’t get a bully fired, make their life hell.

    1. a trans person*

      I’m really not ok with this. If I were one of the people you “protected”, I would consider your behavior part of the evil bees I’m fleeing, even more than the offensive coworkers and ineffective HR.

    3. Jopestus*

      I get why you did what you did, but I do not accept it. Dude. Stop acting like this. You are VP. Your job should have been to start revamping the HR!

  29. Seashell*

    The original letter was from April 2020. If there’s any justice in the world, Natalie & Lisa got fired or at least laid off due to the pandemic, and LW is doing just fine.

  30. HonorBox*

    Regarding letter #2 – Unless a manager is setting the status to busy all the time, I think it is perfectly normal and even more, totally acceptable to do so. I’ve actually been having this conversation with a close friend whose workplace is one where people grab time on others’ calendars. My friend has people drop in to their office as well, as their job requires some of that. That has led to many days when they feel like their priorities are less important because everyone else “deserves” their time… either because my friend feels that way or more often because other employees feel that they deserve their time. And then they work late or have to take work home with them. So I’ve suggested many times that THEY get to determine who and what gets priority by blocking time on their calendar. That doesn’t mean that they’re unapproachable, but rather they’re doing their job and determining whether major project gets priority or minor problem takes priority.

  31. GrooveBat*

    I get that OP #1 might not want to initiate any sort of confrontation, particularly because it is such a sensitive subject. If they can’t bring themselves to report Lisa and Natalie, they could always just send out a general “reminder” to everyone that personal chats are visible to meeting organizers. At least that would make them squirm a bit.

    1. Just Another Cog*

      This is a great idea! OP wouldn’t have to directly confront Lisa and Natalie, but the mean girls should certainly see themselves in the reminder. And, it may make them feel as crappy as they made OP felt, worrying about whether OP saw those comments.

  32. StressedButOkay*

    As a director, the only way I can get stuff done on a regular basis is by blocking off time! My team knows that I have time blocked off every day in the AM and PM for X time and I will put a message up on Teams if I need to put my head down and concentrate for more than that. They also know that I will check pings when I can and those general time blocks can be shifted if something comes up.

    But I can’t let my calendar appear super open or else every second would be a meeting – which means I’m actually less available to them. And also still not getting work done.

    1. Haijlee*

      Right? I feel like people hold their managers to a higher standard than they hold themselves. We aren’t allowed to be busy on the calendar because you might need us?? Good grief!! Often I have meetings 80% of the day and the remaining 20% of the time is to get stuff done that was discussed in those meetings. I ensure all of my directs have 1 to 1 time, we check often to make sure its frequent enough, and I tend to answer IMs if/when meetings end early or at the end of the day. People know if they need me urgently, they should text me but otherwise I’m just a human also trying to get things done. Often, IMs are things that aren’t urgent and can wait, but good grief I could not imagine how a manager would do anything if they had to be free and available all day. I guess we aren’t allowed to take PTO or have lunch either. SMH.

  33. Blue Pen*

    I hate this, and I feel so sad for the LW to have seen those comments—and for anyone who has experienced something similar. It just sucks to be reminded of how cruel people can be sometimes.

  34. BigBird*

    I think I might have posted this story before but it is relevant, although it was not in a work setting. My son’s friend group in elementary school included “Matt” and “Lewis”. Lewis’ mom was a psychologist. Lewis and Matt had an argument and somehow Matt’s mom got involved. The boys worked it out but Lewis’ mom sent the associated emails to a fellow psychologist looking for his professional opinion on Matt’s mother’s childrearing philosophy. Unfortunately she somehow included Matt’s mom in the email. Hilarity did not ensue. Technology is dangerous.

    1. Grizabella the Glaimour Cat*

      OMG, I can’t help picturing Beverly Hofstadter as the psychologist mom. (It SO sounds like something she would do.)

      Yes, I know I spend too much time watching Big Bang Theory reruns, lololololol!

  35. Yes And*

    I followed the links on this post down one helluva rabbit hole. How did so many adults get into their working years chronologically without ever leaving middle school socially?

  37. I don't mean to be rude, I'm just good at it*

    I would screen shot/paste to word and text them with, “Love you both also!”

    Watch how much they suck up to you. Let it sit a few days, then report it.

  38. Honoria Lucasta*

    #1 is an absolute personal nightmare for me. I know I’m overweight, and I project a lot that people are judging me for it. It’s taken a long time to work my brain around to “They probably don’t care, everybody has so much else to think about” and finding out that people *were* talking about me would absolutely send me into a spiral.

  39. Semi-retired admin*

    Re: letter 1
    I think I’d send an email to the entire team or org with a variation of Allison’s wording but without the actual transcript attached.

    “Just a heads up to please be aware that private chats in Zoom get sent to the host when they download the chat transcript.”

    Lisa and Natalie will KNOW that you saw their comments and hopefully feel awful, as they should.

  40. Harper*

    OP, this was so petty and cruel. This says volumes about your 2 coworkers, and nothing about you as a person. What a couple of jerks.

  41. kh*

    I use Teams literally all day everyday (and am fully aware that anything you write on a work computer is “public”), but I’m genuinely confused how a chat between 2 users was part of the larger meeting transcript?

    1. On calls all day*

      In Zoom, in a meeting chat you can direct messages to everyone in the meeting or just a specific subset of people. Apparently, those “private” messages are still included in the transcript, but wouldn’t have been visible to everyone in the meeting during the call. Teams does not have that feature – which is a good thing!

    1. PrivacyRules*

      Not true. I’ve never encountered a Zoom environment where that’s true. In fact, I’m a Zoom admin for my org and I can’t see any private messages.

      1. Little Miss Helpful*

        Not in real time. Zoom saves the transcript of the chat, and it includes both comments to the whole group as well as private chats between participants.

          1. I went to school with only 1 Jennifer*

            Well, lots of people here are saying that it’s true for them, and it was definitely true for the letter writer. (Zoom probably has a zillion configuration options that the sysadmins can set up or ignore.)

  43. KJ*

    I’ve been on the receiving end of this situation before. A colleague was fired (he was terrible at sales) and I was tasked with going through his email to find anything pertinent for the next person (I was the director’s PA, but also IT, accts receivable, etc).

    I found emails back and forth with another coworker, commenting on my weight, as well as some of the personal pictures I had at my desk (some family pics and some motivational quotes). They were incredibly snarky and the coworker still working with me had been particularly vicious in her comments.

    I spoke to another directors EA (we were a small organisation of about 12 people) and she said that if I didn’t report it, she would (she could sense my hesitancy to “rock the boat”). I thought about it, but she went to management immediately and the coworker was brought in for a chat. Nothing happened from it – she was supposed to apologise, and didn’t. She then was warned again about her attitude months later in another management meeting and told to apologise to the WHOLE OFFICE – and apologised to everyone but me.

    That workplace was ridiculously toxic, and thankfully I got out of there within 18 months, but I feel like I had PTSD afterwards. My new boss would say “let’s go get a coffee”, and I’d freeze, because that was my previous boss’ code for “I’m going to fire this person” and I had to jump in and change their passwords while they were having coffee. My boss told us we were doing a team building activity, which turned out to be a pole dancing lesson (you know, in front of a person who mocked my weight).

    Always report people like this, and what management does will tell you EXACTLY what kind of place you work in.

    1. New Jack Karyn*

      This is almost entirely orthogonal to your main point, but: “My boss told us we were doing a team building activity, which turned out to be a pole dancing lesson”

      What the what?

  44. Anonymous For Now*

    I agree with the comment about the LW thinking in terms of how would they feel if these two had done this to a coworker.

    I’ll take it even further and ask the LW to imagine if these two aren’t forced to face consequences for their outrageous behavior and later they do something similar to another colleague only that person is handicapped. Maybe making fun of the “ugly shoes” that person has to wear and how they walk oddly due to their leg braces.

    I’ve found myself being braver if I feel I am standing up for some else or at least not just for myself.

  45. Hiding from My Boss*

    I feel for you in more ways than one. I’ve been a target due to my weight for years. Most recently, a very thin coworker, under the guise of “friendship” and “only trying to help me” was always making remarks about what I ate, what I should eat, how being overweight caused diabetes, how much and what kind of exercise I should take, while bragging (oh-so-modestly) that at her gym she was the only one of her age who did as much exercise as she did. after one particularly nasty swipe, i made an oral complaint to my manager, who spoke w her. she stopped for a while.

    the last time it happened, it was the last time. I froze her out to the greatest extent possible. At a company party she tried to converse with me; i was polite and responsive, but not in a way to extend the conversation. eventually she drifted away and we haven’t spoke since, largely because she’s in another department now.

    I would question whether it was a mistake that you got that email.

  46. Sera*

    I am so sorry this happened to you, LW. I had something similar happen to me two years ago and it affected my self-esteem especially at work greatly. I regret just going to my director who did nothing about it.

    Usually Alison is spot on with her advice, but I think the LW should go to HR if the HR is decent at their workplace. It’s 100% uncalled for to make comments like that on so many levels. Who knows what else they say about other people.

  47. toolegittoresign*

    My company’s workplace harassment training actually included an example scenario just like this. The company would prefer you to go to HR with this because this is unprofessional and your coworkers should know better. You deserve to work with people who respect you and are mature enough to not shit talk in a Zoom chat. If I want to talk about something off the record with coworkers I’m friendly with, I use snapchat. And even then, I only do it to complain about rude clients.

  48. Friendly Office Bisexual*

    I am sympathetic to the fear of conflict, but their behavior is unbelievably inappropriate and out of line! Just like any harassing or bullying behavior, it needs to be addressed or else it’s very possible it could continue/escalate, with you or with others.

    Many targets of bullying feel guilty and ashamed for speaking up, you’re not alone! But they’re the ones who should be ashamed for their cruel words, not you.

    Really sorry this happened, LW, you don’t deserve this :(

  49. Entrepreneur*

    #3
    It does feel awkward to strike out on your own and compete directly with a company that you have been loyal to. However, like Alison says, be sure that you are not taking anything proprietary with you. That means no client lists or other IP that you shouldn’t take. If you do that, you are good! It does happen all the time! Particularly after a merger.

    You can’t control how your manager will take it, but that is not your issue to deal with.

    Bet of luck!!

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