is my employee taking advantage of the flexibility I give her?

by Alison Green on November 20, 2024

A reader asks:

I’m a manager of two employees, both of whom are salaried, not hourly. One of them — who’s younger, less experienced, more eager — rarely asks to adjust her work hours or work from home, and is generally happy to do anything I ask her to do.

The other is a little older, has less of a teamwork attitude (“is this technically one of my job responsibilities?”) and frequently asks to work from home or leave early to take her daughter to appointments, etc. In other words, she enjoys a lot of flexibility and independence while generally defending her own job boundaries. She does seem to know she always needs to ask, and sometimes will even ask, “Am I asking too much?”

I’m trying to find a good balance when it comes to my managing style. I have no problem with either of them taking time to live their lives, as long as they get their work done, I don’t have to constantly keep track of whether or not they’re on top of things, they take initiative, and, most importantly, I feel like they actually show up and care.

But I can’t help feeling like always saying yes is a bad idea. I spent years under unreasonable managers and know how frustrating it can be to feel chained to your desk or unable to prioritize certain things outside of work, and as a manager, I don’t want to say no just to say no. That said, I feel like there are reasonable boundaries I should set to let them both know that while I’m generally accommodating, they should not take advantage of me and there are limitations to what they can and should ask for, regardless of whether or not their work has been done for the day. What’s your advice?

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

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{ 136 comments }

{ 136 comments… read them below }

  1. Peanut Hamper*

    “Is the work getting done on time and to the degree of quality that is required?” is generally the first question you should ask. If that’s the case, then leave well enough alone. If not, then you have work-related reasons to push back on some of these requests.

    1. new laptop who dis*

      Yes! Thank you Alison for (as always) a sane, reasonable approach to managing people.

      Honestly, if my reports only work two hours a day but they still get everything done well and in a timely manner, I DGAF. More power to them, I say!

      1. Dinwar*

        I’ve been on construction sites where this was used as a way to get workers to be more efficient, or to work in some pretty uncomfortable situations. “Get the work done by Wednesday and I’ll pay you for the week”, or “As soon as you’re done with X you’re done for the day, whether it takes two hours or ten”, that sort of thing. The construction manager was happy to pay the wages, because it was still cheaper than downtime for the equipment that couldn’t run until the other team was done!

        1. WheresMyPen*

          As long as it does mean they are becoming more efficient, and not just short-cutting to get the job done faster! Especially in construction.

          1. mbs001*

            Or in a job such as construction where they’re likely paid hourly, the workers may want to stretch the work out and not work as efficiently as they could. I don’t think allowing a worker to work 2 hours instead of 8 is good management. That means that worker can do more.

      2. amoeba*

        I mean, if it were that extreme, something would be waaaay off in the FTE allocation, at least where I work. (Sure, if they are extreme unicorns and somehow manage to do the work that everybody else needs roughly a day for in 2 h. But if it were my entire team, that sounds… unlikely.)

        Also, such a low workload sounds like a recipe for bore-out!

      3. Vio*

        I sometimes think this should be called Ask A Good Manager just to emphasise the fact that their are a lot of bad managers out there whose responses would be very different… but it’s probably more that we’ll notice and hear about bad managers a lot more often than good ones that makes them seem the majority.

    2. Stipes*

      If LW’s just worried that she’ll start to think “boss won’t ever say no”, you can address that easily and casually, especially since she sometimes asks if she’s flexing too much. “Thanks for asking, you’re good, there may still be times I can’t say yes but this isn’t one of them.”

      That said, if you’re stressing this much over it, she might already be able to tell by your mannerisms lol.

    3. LaminarFlow*

      Yes, also, it’s 100000% reasonable for any employee to ask if Task X really is their thing to handle. Maybe sometimes Task X really is part of the employee’s job, but IME, it isn’t. And, doing something 1 time frequently means that task just found a new owner.

      LW, you say you want to be a very reasonable and approachable manager, but the topics in your letter suggest that your actual management style isn’t all that reasonable.

      Why not be the manager you wanted when you were earlier in your career? Grant Flex Time whenever it is requested, and back your employees up when they ask “is this my job?”

        1. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

          In my experience, flex time doesn’t mean you aren’t doing your job…it means that you might be doing your job at different times or in a different physical place than usual as the job allows.

          1. Peanut Hamper*

            Yep, it might mean they come in extra early just so they can get out early. It doesn’t mean they’re not working, just working a different set of hours.

    4. MigraineMonth*

      It’s an interesting quirk of language that taking advantage of a person is bad, but taking advantage of an opportunity is good.

      OP, your employee is using the flexibility you can offer her. As long as you have the opportunity and resolve to reign it in *if* there’s ever a case where you can’t be flexible, that’s a really good thing. She’s taking advantage of the opportunity she has to make her job fit her lifestyle.

      You benefit as well, because she’s going to be happier with her job and less likely to go searching. It’s also going to take significantly more money to make her willing to jump ship (or even transfer internally) if it meant switching to a job that didn’t have as much flexibility.

    5. Msd*

      I’d start to think that maybe the employee has enough bandwidth to take on more tasks. I also might consider that maybe I wasn’t assigning tasks because they are a “technically not my job” kind of person (which can be tiring) and seem to need lots of flexibility (so they need a lighter workload).

      1. Also-ADHD*

        But LW says this employee is very invested in the work — shows up and cares. The cares in that sentence is important. Piling on work can actually demotivate employees and make them less useful.

        1. mbs001*

          No, she says this employee is NOT as invested as the younger worker who doesn’t ask for the flexibility that this other employee seems to have no problem requesting. This tells me a lot about the two workers and I know who I would terminate if I had to let one go. Or to a lesser extent, I know who would receive the larger raise.

          1. DisgruntledPelican*

            Nowhere in this letter is the word “invested” used. The younger employee is described as “eager” but that’s not the same thing, nor is it inherently a positive thing. An eager beaver, says yes to everything, never asks for any kind of flexibility is heading for burnout.

            And seeing as you know nothing about these workers or their output, already “knowing who you would terminate if you had to let one go” makes me hope you’re not a manager.

        2. Msd*

          I’m not sure how checking if someone has bandwidth is “piling on work”. Call me crazy but if someone can get their job done week after week in less than 35? hours then they have bandwidth to take on more.

    6. JMC*

      yup! Let it go. If work is getting done that’s all that matters and let them be. I’ve been micromanaged to death and I hated it, and now I have that same kind of flexibility and freedom and guess what? I’m way more dedicated about my work and it all gets done no matter what. Mind your business.

  2. Falling Diphthong*

    OP, imagine a letter from your second worker: “Should I keep my requests for flexibility to reasonable items which I expect my manager to be fine with? Or should I always be pushing the envelope, asking for wild stuff just so I learn where the boundaries are when the manager says no?”

    She is doing the first one. She’s even periodically checking in to take the temperature of the asks.

    And assume your first worker is watching, not in resentment, but knowing that if she needs flexibility in future (car trouble? frequent physical therapy appointments? ailing pet?) you will grant reasonable requests. Just because this month her life doesn’t look like that, doesn’t mean that her life will never change.

  3. Goldenrod*

    I like Alison’s advice. I’ve had too many bad managers who expected employees to display submission to their authority…as a completely separate issue from the actual work getting done. Ugh.

    One thing that troubles me about the letter is the question of age. The LW seems to sort of feel like the younger employee is “better” because she is eager and never pushes back, while the older employee is somehow a lesser employee because she is defending the boundaries of her job and prioritizing work/life balance.

    But it’s normal for older workers to have more demands on their time than just work. You can do a great job and still not center work as the most important thing in your life. I don’t love the subtle age discrimination here. It reminds me of how Amazon likes to hire “young, eager” employees, squeeze them like lemons for a few years, then discard them for more new workers who don’t have any rights or work/life balance.

    Jobs should exist to support people; not the other way around.

    1. Sharon*

      It’s also very common for older workers to be affected by “job creep” – they gradually take on more and more responsibility because they know HOW to do something even if it’s not supposed to be their responsibility and they aren’t compensated accordingly. So instead of saying “yes, I’d like to learn about that” it’s reasonable to redirect that work to the area that’s supposed to cover it so they don’t end up doing the job of 4-5 people.

    2. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

      It’s also normal for employees to gain a bit more confidence asking for things with experience. Like, when I was in my twenties and fresh out of retail, I bent over backward for some of the worst pay imaginable in my first office job and stressed a lot about whether I was doing well (the way the company operated regarding reviews and feedback did not help this). Twelve years spent in office jobs later and I still want to ensure that I’m doing well, but I also have a much lower tolerance for micromanager nonsense and am far more likely to ask for stuff like OP’s employee has rather than trying to work my entire life around job duties that I am fully aware can be done remotely or with flexible hours. ESPECIALLY if my manager seems to be flexible in the way she’s handling requests. It’s not that I couldn’t have used some of that same flexibility earlier in my career, but I was afraid to ask back then due to a combination of inexperience and volatile managers.

      4. londonedit*

        Yep, I definitely remember feeling early on in my career that I was lucky to have a job and that I was somehow indebted to my employer for allowing me to have a job. I think that’s a common way to feel when you’re in an entry-level role, especially in a competitive industry like the one I work in. So I did whatever was asked of me and never considered pushing back. As I got older, I realised that employment is an exchange of salary for skills – my employer isn’t employing me out of the goodness of their heart, they’re employing me because I have skills that are valuable to them. And so it becomes much more of an equal thing – I put the work in, they pay me for it. I’m respected as a valuable member of the team. And so no, I’m not going to take on work that isn’t within the scope of my role unless there’s a) a really good reason or b) I’m being fairly compensated for doing it. I’m not a young and eager worker trying to add strings to my bow and climb the ladder – I’m happy where I am, I’m secure in my abilities and experience, and I know exactly how much work I can take on without the quality of my work suffering. I think that’s something you come to appreciate the more experience you have. And so I do a good job, I get everything done on time and to the best standard possible, and everyone is pleased with what I do. But I don’t work late unless I absolutely have to, I take my full lunch breaks, I take my holiday and completely switch off when I do so, and I ‘take advantage’ of all the flexibility my employer offers.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      It reminds me of how Amazon likes to hire “young, eager” employees, squeeze them like lemons for a few years, then discard them for more new workers who don’t have any rights or work/life balance.

      And this reminds me of “The Jungle”, where one of the characters sees people waiting in line for work, young and strong and full of hope and drive, and he sees himself in those young men because he used to be them, and it really highlights how broken and beaten down he is now.

      1. LifebeforeCorona*

        An excellent novel about how workers are seen as expendable as the machinery that they operate. As soon as one breaks down, they’re immediately fired and replaced.

    4. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

      (Your mentioning Amazon actually made me think of the large company I just left. Prior to COVID, 70% of their new hires were new grads — and this was not in an industry where that’s common by any stretch of the imagination. During the whole process of the large company purchasing the company I used to work for, I think I met one person who was brought in mid-career. Everyone else had been there their entire adult lives, so it was hardly a surprise that they all thought the dysfunctional ways the company operated were not just normal, but above average. They have nothing to compare it to!)

  4. Muffy*

    You can say no if it creates burdens for your other worker or the work quality has dipped. You could also check in with your other worker to see how she’s doing – she might say that because so and so is gone she feels she had to be chained to her desk but she is too scared to ask because she’s more junior. And from there you can arrange something that’s fair for both.

    2. Butterfly Counter*

      Yes. My thought immediately went to the other worker. Is the person asking for flexibility doing so at the expense of that other worker who (on the surfaces) seems happy and willing to take on any and all tasks. I can see that if it’s creating resentment in her, this is something that will affect the work and that OP needs to push back on.

  5. magnetic-noodle*

    Not exactly the point of the letter but I’m reeeeally resentful of LW’s idea that asking if certain tasks are your responsibility constitutes having “less of a teamwork attitude.” Obviously things pop up, priorities change, and nobody’s job perfectly matches the job description – but how am I supposed to be an effective member of a team if I’m spending more time managing other people’s responsibilities than working on my own?

    1. Quill*

      Another thing: OP, how long has each of them worked there? Has the job changed since they started? And, do you find yourself assigning a lot of one off / organizational / general improvement tasks that fall mostly under “other duties as required” that anyone could do but aren’t something your workers trained for or would expect to come up regularly based on their job title?

      1. Garden Gnome*

        Exactly! Because, like at my office, there are definitive tasks and things that do fall on certain people and not others. Sure, we all pitch in when necessary but not just to have things to do.

    2. SpaceySteph*

      Yes that stood out to me too! Of course most job descriptions are “other duties as assigned” but its also reasonable to push back on requests that are out of scope/ability, getting in the way of accomplishing your normal/actual tasks, etc.

      OP should consider why this keeps happening- is it that she needs an adjustment in job duties or are people just dumping extra work on her because they see her first or something?

    3. It's true*

      I felt that too. The letter writer references having worked for unreasonable managers in the past. This “teamwork attitude” concern is probably remnants of the kind of corporate nonsense that goes on where if you’re the target, everyone’s needs and tasks matter ahead of yours and if you dare ask for anything yourself, that’s not being a team player.

      But the answer of is it impacting the business? Answers even that. If it’s not, then there’s no issue with “teamwork” or “attitude” either.

    4. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Yes! Teamwork defined solely as “willing to take on random tasks that aren’t theirs” is going to, by definition, ignore other important types of teamwork (like making sure everyone is clear on what their role is!).

      1. fhqwhgads*

        I didn’t interpret that line as meaning “willing to take on random tasks that aren’t theirs” but rather meaning the person is nitpicky about anything not explicitly in the job description, no matter how relevant to the job. But it could go either way.

    6. Guacamole Bob*

      There are a wide variety of ways an employee can ask about responsibilities – some of them are a sign about teamwork attitude, some of them aren’t, and some of them are even an indicator of strong teamwork.

      Asking “is this technically in my job description” is not usually a great sign, as it comes across as inflexible and nitpicky. On the other hand, I have senior folks on my team who are quick to raise the question of who should be doing which kind of work, but it’s very much in the spirit of figuring out how to get our overall volume of work done in the most effective manner based on the variety of skills and experience on the team. And at the manager level, one of my roles is working with my peers who manage other teams to ensure we’re coordinating, deconflicting, and in alignment about who should be handling what kind of work.

    7. Wayward Sun*

      I noticed that too. After bad experiences with jobs with ever-expanding sets of responsibilities (and salaries that didn’t grow to match) I’m very reluctant to accept work that isn’t part of my job description. My experience is if you do something once, you’re on the hook to do it from then on.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I wonder if the ‘older’ employee is getting MORE of these ‘oh just this one other thing’ tasks (perceived competence due to age OR perceived laziness due to OP’s perspective?)

      2. Skitters*

        My Mother used to say, “Never volunteer in the Army.” When I asked why not? She explained this exactly.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          My grandfather volunteered to transfer from his remote radio base in Greenland to the London army base. On the way, his ship was diverted and he landed in Normandy instead.

          Never volunteer in the army.

    8. Festively Dressed Earl*

      I think LW’s point is that (from their view) they’re making an effort to be flexible and meet their employees’ needs, but that particular employee isn’t extending the same courtesy. On its face, that’s a recipe for being taken advantage of.

      In reality? “That’s not in my job description” hits differently depending on whether it’s Rosa Diaz or Gina Linetti saying it. Expecting everyone to be Amy is unreasonable.

      1. Elbe*

        +1 for the B99 reference!

        Balancing workloads can be hard, especially for teams that are relatively small. As long as I am not regularly being asked to do things that are above my skill/pay level, and provided that I’m not already at full capacity for my own work, I don’t have a problem doing things that are a bit outside of my role. I would rather pitch in a bit rather than let others struggle through a busy period that isn’t severe enough to justify hiring another person.

        People who won’t budge an inch – whether they’re in management or employees – bug me. If most people are like this, it is such an uncomfortable work environment, and it’s a huge indication that there’s a lack of trust within the org. There’s a problem when people are so defensively trying to avoid getting cheated that they’re not willing to help each other at all.

    10. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Yes I thought this too. “Not in my job description” is a much worse quality in an employee for asking for a bit too much flexibility and as OP that’s the part I’d be focusing on.

      1. renata ricotta*

        Agreed. People should resist major scope creep, but in every organization there are tasks that don’t technically fit into anyone’s job description but still need to be done. The people who are really rigid about never doing anything even slightly off script are difficult to deal with and in my experience, that also comes out in lots of other ways which negatively impact the overall quality of their work.

        At my law firm, a member of the admin staff is in charge of preparing and submitting paperwork for certain compliance issues which are usually submitted to an agency of State A. Occasionally we need to submit very similar paperwork to State B. The admin is insistent that he is not required to handle compliance paperwork for any other state than State A — but that’s not anybody else’s job, either, because it’s a task that only comes up every once in a while. So either I have to do it myself (a poor use of firm resources, because it’s in the firm’s interest for attorneys to spend their time on billable client work rather than admin tasks that could be done by others) or a different member of admin staff has to do something that DEFINITELY isn’t within her scope. But she did it with a good attitude and very efficiently after he refused.

        I know which person I’m going to give a glowing versus satisfactory annual review for, who I’d go to bat to keep in a layoff situation, and who I would give an effusive recommendation for other jobs if needed.

      2. Rainy*

        “Not in my job description” is not a bad quality in an employee unless they’re using it as an excuse to not do their job at all.

        I work in a field where people specialize, and while there are some areas where anyone can do the work, if your specialization is such that you are the only one on your team who can handle some specific issue, you are obligated for the good of the team to keep your schedule clear for those issues. If I book up my time on stuff anyone could do, the things that require me specifically won’t get done in a timely fashion. Or maybe at all.

        Maybe that’s not the case with the LW’s employees–but maybe it is.

    11. anonymous anteater*

      I picked up on that, but I was wondering if the OP’s unease makes more sense in this context. If it’s a base expectation of the job to take on new tasks, or if the employee regularly pushes back against appropriate tasks, I can see how the OP is rubbed the wrong way. All depends what is normal in their place of work.

      1. AnotherOne*

        I wonder if some is that LW has an employee who is asking for flex in her work time but isn’t willing to be flexible about what she works on.

        It can be hard to have an employee or coworker who isn’t flexible, particularly when they want everyone else to be flexible.

    12. GreenDoor*

      See, I did find OP’s phrasing of the question off-putting. It sounded to me like “I want to do the bare minimum and I’m unwilling to do other duties as assigned.” For me, if the employee had phrased it as
      “This is normally Bob’s job and I don’t want to overstep…” or
      “I’ve never been trained on this and I’d hate to mess it up..” or
      “I’ve been doing a lot of tasks that aren’t normally mine, plus my own work, and I’m starting to get burnt out. Can you help me reprioritize?”…
      or something that gives me more of a clue about why they’re reluctant to do the thing, would be so much more helpful and wouldn’t create the impression that they’re trying to avoid work.

    13. daffodil*

      I took on a lot of “extra” stuff and put in a lot of hours when I was early career precisely because I knew I’d need more flexibility later and needed to build up skill and goodwill while I had the energy and comparatively fewer non-work responsibilities. I wonder if these employees are also at different places in that arc — one is putting in the reps, the other is keeping an eye on sustainability.

  6. Sweet Summer Child*

    I’ve been in my job 30 years. This week I have a doctor appt, a class starting early and meeting at the bank. My boss is fine with the extra time because I check in, I ask, I accept no if necessary and I do my job well.
    Don’t worry about “looking like you are in charge.” Be in charge. Be the person your employees can count on to support and advocate for them. If you have two happily working employees, you ARE being a good manager. THEY are the metric you use to test your management abilities.

    2. Moose*

      In my experience (which has admittedly been more academic than work-world so far) the people with authority that don’t have to use it are far better managers than those who do. If your employees ask for reasonable things, there’s no reason to arbitrarily say no. As long as the workload is fairly distributed and everything gets done, giving your workers flexibility makes it more likely, IMO, that they will respect you more than if you were authoritarian for no good reason.

  7. Tradd*

    This kind of goes with the letter from earlier this week about the childless worker having to pick up the slack for coworkers with kids.

    About this letter, I would want to know: does the younger worker have kids? If not, is the older employee with the kid leaving work undone that the younger one has to do because the older one is running off for kid stuff?

    2. Jessica T.*

      Ditto. I was more concerned that the eager and diligent employee is being adequately compensated / recognized if they are picking up more of the slack or just generally being more productive than their flexible peer.

    3. Highlighter Cat*

      It doesn’t sounds like the worker with a kid is leaving things for the other worker.

      The truth is that almost all staff who have kids will occasionally need time off or flexibility for their kids. If we want a next generation of workers to pay for social security someone needs to raise them. And sometimes that future tax payer will need to go to the dentist or have a class play.

      2. Head Sheep Counter*

        How about instead of granting flexibility to just parents… we grant flexibility to people? Its not on others to only pick up the slack for one set of people. If we ever wish to break the idea that women, in particular, are less productive and contribute less… we need to stop with the parents vs the workforce. Improve conditions and expectations for all.

    4. Chirpy*

      Same. Is the younger worker actually comfortable with asking for flex time, and is it granted for her without conditions that the older worker wouldn’t have to meet? Or is she always carrying the slack of the older one anytime flex time is granted?

  9. Nomic*

    Alison that is a gold star answer. Managers don’t need to say ‘NO’ to prove they are in charge, they need to say ‘no’ when there is a business reason to do so.

  10. Strive to Excel*

    FWIW – asking about job responsibilities isn’t always a push back on work. I have checked in similarly multiple times because what projects who is responsible for at work is somewhat muddily defined at my workplace, and I don’t want to accidentally duplicate someone else’s work OR let something fall through the cracks. I’ve also done one-off projects that my boss liked to the point where I’m now doing them every month, but we don’t have a good system in place for “add this to your monthly checklist please” so I have to check in manually. (We are working on fixing this).

    Having a regularly updated list of what staff in a given position are responsible for is a useful management tool to have in any context.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It may also be a sign that you’re asking for too many “other duties as a assigned” tasks. Maybe they helped with something once or twice, but if it’s now becoming a regular part of their job description, that’s no longer “other duties as assigned” and it’s worth having a conversation about your expectation re: those duties.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        Exactly.

        This is why I left my last job. I was the only employee without a job description precisely because if something new came up the boss’s attitude was “give it to Peanut; he’s just an exocomp and will replicate a new tool to get it done.”

      2. Dinwar*

        And this doesn’t have to be a bad thing! Most of my career advancement amounts to me taking on more and more of a role in an ad-hoc manner, until my boss and I have a discussion about whether or not I should officially take on that role. The trick is to find out what duties can be dropped, because logically if you’re working full time and taking on more responsibilities you need to drop some or be overworked.

    2. Tio*

      Yeah, I have an employee who people try and push work on that ISN’T her job because she ahs had a history of saying yes and doing too much. I have been working with her on knowing the bounds of what is and isn’t her work and where she can push back and say no

    3. commensally*

      Yes, I’ve also had to deal with a manager who asks me to do something one time when there’s a crunch, and then comes back to me several months later asking why I haven’t been doing it every week, so I learned to ask if something is in my job responsibilities now not necessarily to avoid being on the hook forever, but just to know if I *am* on the hook for it or not so I can plan accordingly.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        and this scenario where your boss maybe isn’t 100% sure that’s been assigned (or they meant to assign it, or they assigned it to Sally) is NOT a rare unicorn, so getting clarification is just a good idea not insubordination or whatever

  11. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Like Peanut Hamper said, if the work is getting done and the quality isn’t suffering, generally you should leave it alone.

    When I read letters like this, my first reaction is usually “Silence your inner cop!” We all have one to one degree or another: a part of us that thinks even though everything is on the up and up, there’s a gnawing feeling that surely this person must be doing something wrong because something about it bothers us. But the thing about inner cops is they usually develop from how we get socialized in the workplace by past bad managers or attitudes to work; “is the work getting done and is it good” is still not a broadly applied approach to management, in my experience, though that’s slowly changing. But you don’t have to listen to your inner cop; no matter how many times you have that gut reaction to a performing staff member, then that’s a clue you can make a more considered choice in line with your values as a manager if it’s warranted.

    1. Elle*

      “Silence your inner cop” is such good advice. Is something actually a problem, or does it feel like one because of the way you’ve been conditioned?

  12. Unkempt Flatware*

    As a manager, I’d worry I was taking advantage of the younger employee more than I’d worry about a seasoned employee taking advantage of me.

    1. Bossy*

      Me too, particularly with LWs “team player” comment about how the older one wants to do (presumably only) her job duties.

    2. Festively Dressed Earl*

      This. I’m wondering if what’s really bothering LW is that when the senior employee does job-description-only, all the other duties end up pushed onto the junior employee. If the extra asks aren’t unreasonable and it means the junior is working 60 hours while the senior is doing 30, that needs to be addressed. The solution there is to keep aware of how the workload is divided and watch to make sure the junior doesn’t burn herself out.

  13. ACN37*

    Seems like this is a good working relationship! There’s communication and the work is getting completed. Plus, the employees are more content because they have flexibility when needed and the ability to work from home. I wish more workplaces were like this. Assuming the work is being completed and the workflow is good, there’s no need for UNNECESSARY rigidity and control. I truly wish more bosses and workplaces were like that.

    Obviously, this depends on the field and the job – If your job is to work a front desk for 8 hours a day during open hours, the flexibility would be less, BUT if you work a job without that time specificity, I don’t see a need for unnecessary power flexes.

  14. Kate*

    This letter rubbed me the wrong way because it sounded like the LW is looking to borrow trouble. The second employee is doing all the right things, they ask first, do periodic status updates to make sure everything is still good and keep on top of their work. Yet the letter writer is contemplating saying no to some of the requests for no reason other than to reestablish authority? The first employee is easy and that is why the LW prefers managing them. The second employee is not bad, they are just normal., and not easy. They are a regular human worker with obligations and responsibilities outside the office. This is how a workplace becomes dysfunctional, and how employees become resentful and leave.

  15. H.Regalis*

    You have a younger, more inexperienced employee who will pretty much do anything you ask, and an older, more experienced employee who will advocate for herself and doesn’t ask “How high?” when you say jump; and it sounds like the latter person not being extremely deferential to you is annoying you on some level.

    You need to separate your feelings from the work. If the more experienced employee is doing good work, meeting deadlines, and the flexibility of her schedule isn’t causing work issues, then there’s nothing to fix or change here. If her flexibility is causing work issues, address those; but a vague feeling of “not kowtowing enough” isn’t justification for changing how you operate.

    1. Autumn_Fog*

      I currently work for a manager who is constantly and vocally concerned that myself and other teams members are “taking advantage” of flexible working, remote, and PTO/sick leave. It is utterly exhausting and demoralizing.

      Don’t be that boss that makes your direct reports kowtow and beg for flexibility or PTO requests because you need to be seen to be in charge and not someone to be taken advantage of.

      1. Unkempt Flatware*

        Yes! It is basically being forced into some weird emotional labor. I had a parent who offered me things and then was borderline livid that I’d take advantage of said offerings. This reminds me of that and I’d want to crawl away.

      2. Banana Pyjamas*

        I had a boss who explicitly told us how she wanted us to use flexibility, how to contact, etc. In my termination letter, she stated attendance as an issue, even though I didn’t exceed my annual time off and otherwise followed her instructions. HR backed her because her “flexibility” policy didn’t align with the organization policy.

        LW is giving big I will fire you for using your flexibility vibes.

  16. Elbe*

    I don’t think that this is an issue unless the LW works in an industry with a really uneven workload.

    If the LW senses that this employee has come to see significant flexibility as the baseline norm, there could be an issue when work ramps up again. Someone who expects flexibility from an employer but doesn’t want to bend at all from their side is a bit of a concern if the workload has a lot of peaks and valleys. The peaks are going to be a challenge if someone has the impression that the valleys are supposed to be the norm.

    If that’s the case, though, I would just verbally remind this person that these perks are fine for now but likely won’t be available when the work is at an upswing. The LW doesn’t have to actually take away the perks in order for that to sink in.

    1. Tradd*

      I work in an industry like that – international transportation/customs brokerage. How it’s always worked at the companies I’ve been: everyone handles specific customers. Shipment volume is seasonal. So different workers could have less than others in the same department, depending on how their customers are shipping. People with less workload are supposed to help overloaded coworkers, but some have to be told to take additional work when their workload is less.

      1. Elbe*

        Yes, exactly. In a situation like this someone who is “this isn’t my job” or “this isn’t my client” would be a problem, because staffing is done with flexibility in mind. And, if that is the general culture, the employee is also probably benefitting from the flexibility of other coworkers.

        An employer expecting job flexibility from employees – even if they are already reciprocating – tends to raise a lot of hackles in the comments, but it’s the norm in a lot of industries, for good reason.

  17. so...*

    Just tell her you literally don’t care, as long as she’s reachable when you need her, and her work is getting done. Then you don’t have to keep saying yes all the time, because she’s not having to ask you all the time.

  18. Tradd*

    I currently have someone I supervise (first direct report ever) who is constantly pushing back on stuff he doesn’t want to do. The previous person in my position (4+ years ago) and our previous manager (left earlier this year) handled certain things. The guy I supervise is too much “it’s always been this way” and has to be pushed to take stuff when I’m overloaded. He has the knowledge and skills to do the tasks (we both do the same workload (different customers), I just have more responsibility), he just doesn’t want to do them. The older coworker in the letter really reminds me of my coworker!

    1. Tradd*

      Forgot to mention: my direct report has much more room in his workload than I do. He has a tendency to want to slack off. I’ve had to get our manager involved more than once because I was overloaded and he had dug his heels in about taking on any additional work.

    2. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

      You may want to read the letter again because OP doesn’t say that the employee is slacking, just that she’s questioned if certain things fall into her area of responsibility, which — depending on a plethora of variables we don’t know — could be an incredibly reasonable thing to ask. And the employee is asking for flexibility to handle life situations and it sounds like is open to hearing “no” if OP chooses to say “no”, which indicates she is open to things changing. So…it’s kind of nothing like the situation you described?

  19. Richard Hershberger*

    Without yet reading Alison’s answer or the other comments:

    Breaking news: employee with a kid take said kid to appointments more often than employee without a kid.

    Notably absent: any discussion whether employee with kid is getting their work done. If the manager knows they are getting their work done, said manager is looking for problems. If the manager knows they aren’t getting their work done, said manager has misidentified the problem. If the manager has not clue whether the work is getting done, said manager is the problem.

  20. CubeFarmer*

    Is the work getting done on time, and is the quality of that work good? If so, that’s your answer regarding flexibility. Geez! Why would a manager say no just to say no.

    If that’s not the case, then address that problem head on. Do you think that your older employee should be doing more? Then address that–by giving clear guidance and not by yanking away flexibility (yeah–way to make someone feel happier about their job…)

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Completely agree.

      If I found out that my manager was saying no to every fifth request just because they felt they had to say no every once in a while, I would:

      1) Be seriously pissed off.

      2) Game the system so that my fifth request was always something I didn’t want anyway.

  21. aarti*

    I am a manager and I always default to yes unless there is a reason to say no. Why not? Why should work be their overarching priority? Work will ALWAYS be there and your family things are far more important. If I can spare them, sure, they can work from home or be flexible or take time off without using allocated time for doctor’s appointments, or start the day later, or whatever, as long as the work gets done. And if it doesn’t and there is a good reason, so be it! We’ll figure it out. Work should not be punitive and it makes the employees enjoy work more.

  22. Claire*

    “As a manager, I don’t want to say no just to say no.”
    To be honest, it sounds like you DO want to say no just to say no.

    1. Peanut Hamper*

      I got a “well, a good manager has to say no sometimes, right? RIGHT? Am I doing this wrong by saying yes all the time?” kind of vibe from the letter.

      Sounds like LW has a high-functioning team and isn’t entirely sure about that.

  23. good advice*

    overall agree. one potential nuisance is asking if something is technically part of their job. there is a fine line there as I think with most jobs at times you need to pitch in though often I think that gets abused by companies so context, frequency, how outside normal responsibilities it is, is there a need to temporarily “pinch hit” because someone is on leave or is temporarily overloaded, etc

    1. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

      I had to ask this question a lot at my last job, and it wasn’t because I’m not a team player; it’s because I had a lot of overlapping expertise with a number of groups and some of those managers would ask me directly for things that it was more appropriate for their own analysts to handle. I would absolutely pitch in when necessary and often handled ad-how data requests. But there were a ton of times when a request was going to be very time intensive, and I would have to discuss with my manager what she wanted — did she want me doing it at all? Was it a one-time thing or would this become a reoccurring issue?

      I said “yes” to way too many things earlier in my career because I like helping out and doing what I can. And I realized during that time that I literally could not do everything that was asked of me, so I started checking these things with my manager. The context given in the letter is sort of vague. It’s possible the employee is resisting pitching in, but it’s also possible that she’s trying to make sure she understand what she’s expected to prioritize.

      1. Goldenrod*

        “It’s possible the employee is resisting pitching in, but it’s also possible that she’s trying to make sure she understand what she’s expected to prioritize.”

        Exactly! It’s important to be flexible at work, whenever possible – but I worry about environments where you can *never* question the boundaries of your job.

        When you feel like you have to say yes to everything or else be automatically viewed as a bad employee…that can start to become a problem. In a work environment where there is safety and trust, you actually can ask these kinds of questions without judgement.

        I had a few jobs that I had to eventually leave due to job creep and saying yes to too much – eventually it became untenable, and there was no way to re-define my job other than leaving due to a generally blame-y culture.

      2. good advice*

        completely agree. letter is vague. I tend to pitch in too much but have had co-workers who tried to do the bare minimum. it’s not clear from the letter which situation it is.

    2. londonedit*

      In my job I’ve become the default contact point for our department, which means people are always asking me to do things or asking questions about things that aren’t my job. OK, technically I could spend time looking up the answer or finding out how to do the thing, but we also have a department assistant whose job it actually is to answer those questions, so what I actually do is forward them to her rather than doing them myself. Not because I think I’m too good to do them, or because I’m trying to get out of doing work, but because it’s not my job and it is her job.

  24. Person from the Resume*

    Does it make it harder for your other employee to leave early or work from home herself, because she needs to be in the office if her coworker isn’t?

    This is what I think is the hidden area.
    – Is one employee’s flexibility impacting the other so that she can’t be flexible? Is the first employee asking first and beating the other one to requests?
    – Does the employee in the office get asked to do more (perhaps more minor admin, not high profile) tasks or get interrupted more making it harder for her to focus?

    Generally, though, it does not sound like a problem and your employee is asking and willing to hear “no.” You just should only say “no” for legitimate work reasons.

  25. commensally*

    It sounds like your actual question may be that you don’t have a good benchmark of what is or isn’t reasonable to allow for your employee, so you don’t know when to say no. That’s something that’s going to vary depending on the job and the employer; you should be checking in with other managers or management mentors at your employer to know what expectations are on you about that. If they think the employee’s use is still within reason, then it is.

    If the problem feels like the second employee is working way, way fewer hours but still getting their assigned work done, then what you may need to do is look at rebalancing workload (but you need to decouple that from the question of leave so it doesn’t feel like a punishment for using flex time.)

  26. beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk-ox*

    Asking for clarification on duties isn’t necessarily an indication that someone isn’t a team player. *I* do this and it’s because I have a tendency to try to help everyone and I have learned over the years that I simply cannot do that an expect my work quality not suffer. Also, it isn’t specified in the letter, but I know a lot of my “is this something I should be doing?” questions often stemmed from managers in other groups trying to co-opt my time by going around my manager to ask me for something that any of the analysts in their own group could easily access. There were times when I pushed back on my own, but there were also times where I would run it through my manager because it wasn’t that I COULDN’T do it, but I didn’t know if she wanted me using my time that way.

    Also, there have been times when I’ve done something as a one-off favor, and later had to ask my manager if it was something I was regularly expected to do. Similar story. It wasn’t that I minded helping people, but if the job really belonged with a different group who was all-too-eager to shove it off onto someone else, I wanted to be aware.

    Obviously, I am reading my own experience into this, and the letter doesn’t indicate where the requests are coming from. But just asking if something is a part of her job description doesn’t necessarily mean she’s not being a team player. She may be asking if it’s now a part of her regular duties or if it’s a one-off request or if you even want her doing whatever it is at all. (Obviously if OP is the one giving her the duties, that last one doesn’t really apply.)

  27. Mmm.*

    This part stuck out to me:
    *less of a teamwork attitude (“is this technically one of my job responsibilities?”) *

    That’s not a teamwork thing. That’s refusing to do something that someone else with relevant training should be paid for.

    In my field, people with my job title – content writer – are now expected to the jobs of three job titles with three sets of training because they’re “close enough.” These jobs are often content writer and social media marketing plus either PPC, graphic design, or things involving coding – not “close enough!” Yes, even with social media work!

    The belief that things can be “close enough” comes from people having a “teamwork attitude” – which, in addition to having to learn totally new skill sets on their own time and, often, their own dime, often means willing to work extra hours.

    And we need to stop feeding that belief or expecting others to just do it because we’re a “team” or, worse, a “family.”

  28. Elsewise*

    I was in a similar position to the younger employee in this. Never took time off, worked hard, volunteered for everything, and had coworkers who worked much less hard than I did and took advantage of our job’s flexibility more. My boss reminded me several times that I was allowed and encouraged to take time off, but I’d been burned by previous workplaces and I genuinely liked my work, so I rarely did.

    And then I got sick, and an invisible disability I’d had my whole life suddenly became unmanageable. And then my partner needed surgery and then I got covid, and before I knew it I was running up against the limits of my PTO for the first time in my life. I needed to take advantage of the flexibility, because I had doctor appointments and physical therapy and days when I couldn’t get off the couch or sit up.

    When all this happened, I was so grateful to my coworkers who took more advantage of the flexibility for demonstrating to me that it was possible to do that and still be a high achiever. My boss didn’t blink when I said I needed to step back a little bit, my coworkers stepped up when they needed to, and I got to discover what an actually functional workplace feels like.

    For LW: Make sure that your other employee knows that the same flexibility is there for her if she needs it, and take a step back. You’re creating a good environment for your employees, and building that foundation will pay off in the long run a lot more than having butts in seats for the sake of the butts will.

  29. Coffee Please*

    I’m salaried and also a manager. If my staff is getting their stuff done and need to leave early for an appointment or whatever — it’s fine! If they aren’t then we need a discussion but otherwise, I am totally fine with that. I expect the same from my manager as well.

    That being said, I’m not a huge advocate for work from home, simply because of the nature of our place-based work, but that is unique in my case. I typically grant requests for work from home but also let my staff know that we’re most productive in the office due to what we do. I also lead by example and rarely work from home. That also being said, if it isn’t necessary to be onsite, then wfh shouldn’t really be an issue.

    People typically respond well when their manager treats them like a person first and worker second. We all have whole lives and as long as we get our stuff done, we should be allowed to live them.

  30. Delta Delta*

    This reads to me like the OP is saying they have one employee who never asks for anything and thus is great. But the employee who asks for things – when being told it’s okay to do so – really isn’t doing the right thing. This feels like moving goalposts.

  31. One Bean Two Bean*

    I can relate to the letter writer’s concerns, because it sounds to me like it could be a situation where all the flexibility is on one side.

    For example, with newer salaried/exempt employees I’ve tried to set expectations that they aren’t punching a clock – if they need to leave early for an appointment or because they are brain fried or whatever, fine. But also I expect if they are working on a big, time sensitive thing they might need to put in extra time on that day.

    What I don’t want to see* is where someone takes advantage of flexibility (leaves 2 hours early for a dentist appointment, works from home to be there for a furniture delivery, etc.) but then never does the reverse – won’t end her lunch 5 minutes early to help a swamped coworker, won’t stay 30 minutes late to finish an urgent project, etc. That’s the kind of vibe I was getting from the “is this technically one of my job responsibilities” comment. (It’s possible I’m projecting here.)

    * I’m not a monster – I don’t want to see the reverse either – where someone always works extra but then tries to nickel and dime themselves and use 45 minutes of PTO on the one day the train was late or something

    I guess I feel like you need to pick one – you can be strict “I work only these hours, take every last second of my break, don’t do anything outside of my narrow job description” but then you should use PTO for time away from work and be actively working during all of your set work hours. Or you can be more flexible and adjust your schedule and workflow as it makes sense (both up and down), flex your time, not use PTO for every second away from the office.

    1. Elbe*

      Agreed.

      The LW describes the employee as not a team player and uses the “is this my responsibility?” question just as an example. Since the LW is worrying about the system being taken advantage of, my read on that is that she suspects that the employee is not willing to reciprocate on flexibility. And, frankly, that sounds like it may be true.

      Without more examples of the employee’s behavior, it’s hard to tell how unwilling to budge an inch the employee actually is. But, either way, the LW should just focus on setting expectations. If occasionally working until 5:30 is something she would expect, then she can put “occasional time outside of regular hours” in the job description. Because the LW can define roles and assign tasks, it’s not likely that an employee will actually be able to take advantage to a large degree.

    2. Helewise*

      I agree. I’m not finding the comments on this one very helpful because they seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the LW is obviously inappropriately micromanaging, while it seems equally likely that the employee is slacking just a little in a way that the LW is having a hard time defining.

        1. Jan Levinson Gould*

          I third that! Seems like many of the commenters jumping on LW never had a direct report who pushed the envelope.

          I had a direct report who pushed the limits of Flex Time with her fully remote role. I put core hours in place and instructed my group on when to enter PTO for midday absences of a few hours. I was doing that just because of one person. My boss who very much values flexibility caught wind and was like “Naw, just set different standards for different people.” So I would sometimes have to tell that person to enter in a few hours of PTO when they were unreachable midday since it was a frequent occurrence, but I wouldn’t apply that to others.

          unlike the person in LW’s letter, my direct report was willing to work off hours when necessary and was a team player. Therein lies the other rub – the lack of perceived reciprocating flexibility from the employee. FWIW, the other employee will advance in her career and the inflexible person will not. And the inflexible person will be chosen to be laid off if there are budget issues.

      2. Allonge*

        Yes, that line between ‘asks too much’ and ‘asks too much and it’s an issue’ is harder to identify than most people think.

        ‘Is work getting done’ is an important consideration, but it’s not an obvious yes/no either. In most cases of office work, you are not producing a certain number of widgets/hour that is easily countable. Some people can deliver a lot more even if they write the same number of reports, e.g. by needing less instruction, aiming for higher standards, having better relationships, thinking longer term and so on. Usually you can tell if someone does not manage the basics, but there is so much space between that and ‘good worker’. Especially for creative tasks, quantifying things is really hard.

        Which is to say, what OP describes can be a legit issue or not. It’s very reasonable at least to want to make sure that there is some balance between what the two employees have to deliver and how much flexibility they have. If we just say ‘give all the flexibility, you micromanager’, that is indeed not helpful. We want managers to ask these questions!

  32. Elbe*

    I feel like a lot of the comments here are being pretty harsh on the LW.

    The question boils down to, “I am currently doing everything right and providing my employees with as much flexibility as I can. I want to keep doing this, but I have an uneasy feeling that this may cause problems down the road. How do I handle this?”

    And that’s fair. Just because someone is having doubts or worrying doesn’t mean that they’re secretly looking for way to treat their employees poorly. And it’s a sign of a good manager to want to pre-emptively anticipate problems instead of waiting for things to blow up.

    My suspicion is that the LW’s doubts are caused by these things:

    1) She’s worried that saying yes for so long will cause issues when she finally has to say no. If you’re regularly giving people flexibility over the course of months or years, it reasonable to worry that it may become the new “norm” in their minds. And if they feel that it’s the norm, it may not go over well when you have to say no. For example, if wfh/leaving early/etc. is regularly available over many months, an employee may not have childcare or alternate transportation available on a day that they need to work. Or they do work, but they are upset and resentful because they see it as the LW changing their schedule.

    Because the LW’s employee is still requesting permission and treating it like a perk, I don’t see this being an issue right now. The LW should only actively worry about this if she gets the sense that people are treating it as a given that they are entitled to.

    2) She’s worried that the disparity in perks being requested will make it unfair to one employee Having a team player who is willing to pitch in to get work done is great for balancing workload and could be one of the reasons that the LW is able to offer flexibility to her employees. It is genuinely bad for morale if someone is benefitting from systems that they don’t contribute to.

    If the LW’s workload is such that one employee’s lack of flexibility could potentially cause her to not be able to offer the same perks to the younger employee (for example, the younger employee finally requests to work from home but the LW has to say no because the other employee is unwilling to cover minor in-office tasks.) then this is a legitimate issue. Perks have to be equally available, even if they are not always equally used.

    But if that’s not the case – if one employee using perks won’t affect others’ ability to – then I think that she can put this worry down.

    1. Alice*

      I would have more sympathy for the manager if not for the part about the employee sometimes asking the manager, “Am I asking too much?”
      I really hope the conversation is not going like this:
      E says, “Am I asking too much?”
      M thinks, “Obviously you are asking too much, you should know that!”
      M says, “It’s fine.”

  33. RagingADHD*

    My question would be whether the “young and eager” employee is winding up with an undue share of the workload due to a lot of ad-hoc requests or n0n-urgent maintenance work that she doesn’t feel established enough to push back on?

    Is the senior employee not just getting their immediate deadline work completed for the day / week, but staying on top of the longer-term or routine items that should be allocated to slow times?

    Making sure the work is distributed fairly (taking into account their skills and responsibilities) is a work-related reason to place more demands on the senior employee, that may or may not limit their flexibility.

  34. DJ*

    Sometimes doing work not within your job description can mean vacant positions aren’t refilled. Or the employee gets stuck with the admin and targeted for the next round of layouts because the company doesn’t value admin work.
    LW could talk with the worker who doesn’t ask for as much flexibility and let them know it’s available to them as well. Sound like part WFH is working well. Could that be more formalised so the other worker knows they have access to this too? Unless the other worker doesn’t want to WfH which should also be respected

  35. GoodNPlenty*

    Please make sure your junior employee isn’t *always* the one to hold down the fort on Friday afternoon while everyone else gets to leave.

  36. Raida*

    Unless you want to manufacture a situation where you say “No” to show that you *can* do it… there’s not really much to do here except:

    1) Ensure you’re saying Yes because the work *is* getting done
    2) Ensure you know what the work *is*
    3) Ensure the other staff member is not being overworked in the balance
    4) Ensure the other staff member is compensated if they are genuinely picking up more responsibilities

    for 4- If they are happy with hours and workload then this could be good training opportunities or interesting work, but never forget supporting them taking holidays (even just long weekends) and bonuses will go a long way

  37. Carina*

    I can see where LW is coming from, and I think about this often in the push for added flexibility at work. The most common argument is “as long as I’m getting my work done, I should have flexibility to leave early/work remote/etc.” But sometimes this can lead to people doing the absolute bare minimum in their roles so they can leave as soon as possible. In a less flexible setup, they would necessarily be at their desks for longer and might be able to accomplish more in a week than they do now. Ideally, everyone is on the same page with clear expectations for job performance. But, it’s hard for someone managing an entire team to know exactly how long each task should take each person so that they can establish reasonable workloads. And when people are asking for so much flexibility that you think it’s likely they’re working fewer than 40 hours every week, there’s absolutely room to raise the bar for the amount of work they’re asked to complete. I’m guessing that’s the “not wanting to get taken advantage of” that the LW is referring to.

  38. CLC*

    It’s not a coincidence that the less experienced employee will do anything asked of her and the more experienced employee wants more boundaries and flexibility/autonomy.

  39. rebelwithmouseyhair*

    This is a lovely response. Check that all is well, that you’re not making things harder for others or unfair to others by letting this worker have what she asks for. And since she doesn’t seem to be abusing the system, just asking for more accommodations than others, why not give them all more freedom to work as they will so long as targets are still being hit. If I had had such a manager, I would have been delighted.

Comments are closed.