my coworker’s constant interruptions make us all dread team calls

by Alison Green on November 20, 2024

A reader writes:

Our team of seven has been working from home since the beginning of Covid. To keep up-to-date on projects, we have two weekly calls with the entire team, and one mid-week call to update the rest of the company on projects.

Our manager runs the two team calls each week, while I run the mid-week call on projects. This is important to note.

On the team calls, there is a coworker, Andy, who frequently interrupts whoever is talking, regardless of the topic. He talks over everyone and has something to say about everything, even when he isn’t involved. Sometimes, even most times, these things are personal in nature and not about the project we’re working on. He also likes to command the conversation talking about his pets, his house, his home projects, and his friends.

Team calls are a drag on the day anyway, but crucial to staying on point and communicating with coworkers who have different roles in each project, rather than just emailing. I’m just really tired of having a conversation about, let’s say, packaging for a new product to be interrupted and talked over with, “Oh guys! Halloween is next week!”

Our manager is far too diplomatic to say anything, but I feel even she is getting annoyed with this. It isn’t social hour. It’s work. Lately after an outburst, there is an awkward silence where everyone waits to see if it’s okay to resume the conversation we had been having. No one really responds to his interruptions, so you’d think he’d get the hint.

Andy doesn’t have much to do in our department; his job is very seasonal in nature. I know it would not go over well to suggest he no longer be invited to these conversations unless he’s directly involved in a project, but I am going to have an outburst of my own soon if he doesn’t shut up.

It’s interesting to note that on the mid-week calls (the ones I run), he barely makes a peep unless spoken to, so I know it is possible for him to do.

Lately there’s been a text thread before each team call between my coworkers and I, saying things like “Get ready for the Andy show!” … “Wonder how Andy’s weekend was, I’m sure we’ll hear all about it when we’re trying to forecast for the next year.” … etc. He’s crowding out the team and alienating us all.

At the end of the calls, we usually take turns updating anything personal if we choose to share — the key being, take turns (our manger calls us by name and asks how certain things are going, etc). Even that has stopped because when someone else chooses to share, he crowds into their conversation by trying to relate or give advice, when it’s not his turn and no one wants to be talked over during personal share time. It’s affecting team morale.

What is a good way to bring this up to my boss? I had thought of spinning it positively, maybe asking if there is a way we can help Andy wait to share his thoughts until the end or asking him to mute while we’re having project conversations and personal conversations.

I don’t want to have to talk to him myself, although I did a few times already and it made me feel bad. Once I emailed him after a call and kinda let it be known that we missed a good chunk of the conversation because he was speaking. He apologized profusely and said he didn’t mean to do that. It made me feel terrible for being rude to him about it. Another time, on a video call, he was going on and on with unsolicited advice so I raised my hand in a “stop talking” gesture and told him I didn’t want or need his advice. He said, “Oh, okay.” I felt less bad that time because it was about something personal and I chose to share with the team, and I would have said that to anyone else that I knew — sometimes we share to vent, and I didn’t ask for advice.

Ugh, Andy, why?! Not only are the off-topic interjections and monologuing rude, but he’s making meetings take longer, which some day will be an established defense for murder.

Where is your manager in all this? You describe her as “too diplomatic” to speak up, but this isn’t about diplomacy — it’s about doing her job, which includes managing the meetings she’s running so that they’re not constantly veering off-track and stepping in when she sees toxic dynamics developing on your team.

Not only is your manager doing the whole team a disservice by not managing meetings more assertively, she’s also doing Andy a disservice — because she’s allowing him to obliviously go on annoying and alienating all his team members. She’d be doing him, along with everyone else, a favor by shutting this down.

Because you run the mid-week calls with the rest of the company, I’m wondering if that means you have a leadership-ish role in your department (either formally or informally). If so, that positions you especially well to point out to your boss that Andy regularly disrupts meetings and is alienating his coworkers. But even if you don’t have that kind of role, you still have standing to talk to her about it, because you’re a team member who’s affected by it.

I would say it this way: “Would it be possible to talk to Andy about limiting his interruptions on team calls? When he interrupts people, talks over them, and interjects with off-topic remarks, it makes it hard to stay focused on the topic and makes the meeting take longer, and I can tell by people’s comments that they’re getting increasingly frustrated and wanting to participate less.”

If your manager is passive to the point that you know she won’t handle it, another option is to be more assertive during the meetings yourself. For example, at the start of the next call you could say, “I’ve got a hard stop at 10:30 so could we hold anything unrelated to the agenda for the end so I can drop off then?” or, “We’ve been getting off-topic a lot lately, and I wondered what everyone thinks about setting some meeting norms on holding interruptions or anything outside the agenda until the end of the call?” (Your coworkers are likely to chime in enthusiastically on that suggestion.) And when Andy does interrupt with something off-topic, you can say, “I really wanted to hear what Jane was saying about X” or “can you hold that until the end so we don’t lose what Jane was saying about X?”

But it might be that a pointed conversation with your boss will nudge her to step in herself.

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{ 202 comments }

{ 202 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. I'll have the blue plate special, please.*

    Yes, someone has to say something about this amid your meetings or Andy will keep doing this.

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      1. LW/OP*

        I have to agree. A lot of my frustration is also directed at the manager, who should recognize and deal with this situation. I don’t necessarily want to be the one to have to do it, but after reading through many of these comments, if manager hasn’t done it by now, she isn’t going to.

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      2. MassMatt*

        Came here to say this. This seems at first like it’s an Andy problem, but clearly it’s a manager problem.

        But also–why is everyone putting up with this? He is derailing with irrelevant outbursts, he interrupts people, he undoubtedly drones on and drags out the meeting for everyone. And no one is saying anything? It sounds as though “quiet hints” are not working. People can say “Andy, I wasn’t done talking” or “Andy, we are talking about the packaging, stay focused” etc.

        Yes the manager should be the one doing this, but unless she grows a spine maybe you and your coworkers have to take some initiative on this?

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        1. MigraineMonth*

          Yeah, is this business in a region known for “nice” culture (a.k.a. rude only behind your back)? Or is the company culture especially non-confrontational? The only time I’ve had this much trouble shutting down a blatherer was when he was both my boss and running the meeting in question.

          (My very first team meeting was scheduled for half an hour and ran 45 minutes over. After a couple of weeks I started scheduling meetings fifteen minutes after and saying I had a hard stop. A couple of weeks after that I skipped scheduling the meeting and just announced that I’d need to leave at [time meeting was scheduled to end], and then left the meeting at that time. I did need to leave the meeting: me getting my work done was more important than learning even more details about the insulation work my boss was having done on his summer cabin by the lake.)

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    3. LaminarFlow*

      Yes, absolutely. Andy may not be aware that sharing his thoughts/feelings/happenings is a drain to the team. And, not long ago, virtual meetings were the only way to socialize.

      Also, the part about LW having a group chat with a few co-workers that post sentiments like “Are you ready for the Andy show?” before meetings is gross, and far more rude than speaking to Andy. Just yesterday, an LW wrote in that they saw a transcript of two colleagues gossiping about the LW’s weight. It’s the same insecure, mean-girl behavior – just a different flavor.

      Reply ↓
      1. New Jack Karyn*

        Yes, this type of thinking leads to toxic behaviors. LW and her coworkers might not be acting badly right now, but regular trashing of Andy via group chat will not end well.

        Reply ↓
  2. MsM*

    It’s interesting that you feel bad about just asking Andy to stop, because Andy doesn’t actually seem all that upset about it from what you’re describing.

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    1. Lea*

      Right?

      I relate to this so hard as I now have an interrupter and a ‘I need to win this conversation no matter the topic’ coworker who drives me batty and has been told to shut up and let someone talk at least once but it doesn’t seems o phase him and he picks up on no social cues

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      1. Minocho*

        I am an interrupter by habit. It is a habit I’m working on curbing, and while I appreciate that people want to avoid hurting my feelings, what I really appreciate are the people who call me on it professionally when I’m off track.

        Allison’s suggestions that were something like “I would really like to hear what Jane has to say about X,”, spoken by others after I’ve regressed and interrupted lead to mortified feelings, but I SHOULD feel embarrassed when I interrupt. But the focus isn’t on me, it’s on the business, and moving forward, not shaming me. This is direct, professional and polite. If Andy actually feels bad about interrupting, chances are good this will help fix the issue.

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        1. Lea*

          Eh some people are benign interrupters or slightly adhd/occasional interrupters who don’t bother me and also pick up on social cues.

          My coworker is not one, he’s honestly more on the traditional mansplaining scale and is much harder to shut down

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            Yeah, the fastest way to tell the difference between someone who’s socially awkward and a jerk is to ask them to stop doing a behavior that’s bothering you. Well-intentioned socially awkward people *stop* (to the best of their ability). Jerks (and creeps) get mad and tell you they shouldn’t have to.

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        2. Cj*

          I have a habit of interrupting too, which I am trying to curb. but when I interrupt people, it is related to the topic that is being discussed, not randomly talking about personal stuff.

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    2. Cogitator*

      Agreed, my experience with people who aren’t good at picking up more implicit social cues is that they aren’t distressed when you’re more explicit about it. (I would be cause I’m super self-conscious, but that’s also why I’d pick up on the implicit cues)

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      1. Elbe*

        Agreed!

        Being corrected in this way is embarrassing for people consider themselves able to read the room, but others find it genuinely helpful.

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        1. ShanShan*

          I came here to say this, too. If someone has trouble picking up on hints, why would they find still more hints helpful?

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    3. Sarah With an H*

      I also thought it was interesting the LW wrote about feeling “terrible for being rude to him about it” after emailing him about his behavior. I guess the email could have been snarky or mean, but telling someone that he was so disruptive during a meeting that people missed important information is definitely not rude! Andy’s behavior is rude, even if he isn’t being malicious, and calling it out isn’t rude (this is a lesson I am still learning since I don’t want to make people feel bad)

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      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        Yeah, maybe OP needs to think about it differently. Think of how happy you’ll make your coworkers by politely shutting him down. Don’t be mean about it, just say that you need to keep to the work topic. You’re being respectful of others’ schedules too, which might help you realize you’re not being a bad guy or a bully, you’re just trying to run efficient meetings.

        Or, to quote Mr. Spock, “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

        Does your manager know that the rest of your team is also annoyed with him? Perhaps all of you should tell her that the meetings are getting out of hand and ask for her help in reigning them in. I’m not suggesting that this rises to the level of “push back as a group,” but if all of y’all mention it individually to the manager, she might realize that she needs to do something.

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        1. MigraineMonth*

          I’ve actually had multiple coworkers privately thank me for politely shutting *them* down in meetings when they were talking too much.

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    4. Anon for this*

      “I don’t want to tell Andy that he is interrupting Jane and needs to wait because that is rude so we just sit in awkward silence once he runs out of steam on a particular topic.”
      I’m trying to parse the difference: It is rude to tell someone that s/he is behaving in a way that is inappropriate, that is wasting time and upsetting/annoying people. It is less rude to make him interpret disapproval by essentially shunning him.
      Imagine if this weren’t virtual. He starts talking about his interests in the middle of the meeting and everyone turns their chairs away from him.
      You can’t imagine doing that. But you are. Please tell him to rein it in. It is the best thing for everyone.
      Signed,
      an ex-main character who learned a well timed cameo can be enough

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      1. MsM*

        Not even just shunning him! There’s a whole chat snarking on him! I think he’d much rather just be told he’s being annoying in the moment than accidentally stumbling on that.

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        1. Anon for this*

          I forgot about that part. OP, you are bending over backward not to be rude. It’s one of those metaphorical situations where you are so far behind you are ahead. Nobody wants to hurt his feelings. Nobody wants to be the bad guy.
          Now everyone is.

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          1. duinath*

            Yeah, plus he did seem receptive the two times he was checked on specific incidents. As a coworker, I think it makes sense to keep checking him in the moment, and hope he catches on to the larger pattern.

            But it is beyond me why the manager hasn’t sat him down to address the larger pattern with him directly. That would be too much for a coworker, imo, but it is certainly well within the lines for a manager.

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            1. fhqwhgads*

              Even if the manager hasn’t sat him down to address the larger pattern, it’s beyond me why the manager isn’t doing the in-the-moment call for back-on-topic. I can’t stand people “running a meeting” who absolutely do no such thing.

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        2. Festively Dressed Earl*

          We did just have a letter yesterday about coworkers talking smack about an LW in a private chat. Even if you’re talking about a legit behavior issue instead of, say, body shaming, it’s still unprofessional and rude.

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      2. Socks*

        Some people think addressing things head on is inherently The Rudest Thing You Can Do. When hinting doesn’t work, they end up doing things like having a snarky side chat to blow off steam while continuing to hint even harder. I’m not someone who thinks hinting is always passive-aggressive, but it very easily turns into passive-aggression when that’s the only tool in the toolbox.

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        1. Anon for this*

          Yes, the passive aggressive response…The group silence, that nobody really started, but nobody is addressing, I think that grew out of the group chat. Not in a good way. In a bad way, indicative of the “group” turning against “The Andy Show.” It’s going to come out in other ways. And

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        2. Ms. Eleanous*

          Alone or in a group, practice holding up your hand (as in talk to the hand) and saying “save it for later, Andy”.
          Too harsh?

          I keep thinking of Dot Warner in Animaniacs:
          Would you mind holding that thought for just one little minute?

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    5. JB (not in Houston)*

      Yes, and the OP feels bad about asking Andy to stop but doesn’t mention feeling bad that there’s a weekly department text badmouthing Andy. Maybe if boundaries had been set before, they wouldn’t need to all talk about him behind his back? Maybe he should know better without being asked. Maybe he obliviously believes that his team members are his friends. I can’t tell from the letter. But–as someone who works with a person I personally find very annoying–I can’t help feel bad for him* when as far as we can tell, the entire team is against him, and he has no idea he’s alienating them.

      *I feel bad for the OP, too, because it’s hard to know how to handle these situations when the manager isn’t doing anything.

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      1. No clever username*

        This! I don’t blame OP at all but once you’ve gotten to the point where there’s a secret group chat snarking on Andy, something else has to be done.

        Reply ↓
  3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

    > Lately after an outburst, there is an awkward silence where everyone waits to see if it’s okay to resume the conversation we had been having.

    Why are you all waiting to see if it’s “okay” to continue with the discussion? Just keep going as if Andy hadn’t said anything. It might mean continuing to talk about packaging for the new product even while Andy is trying to get “oh guys, it’s Halloween next week” etc in there.

    Reply ↓
    1. CeeDoo*

      Where’s the eye-rolling LW when you need them? I hate being interrupted, and will tell the interrupter, “It’s my turn to speak now.” Or in this case, it might be, “It’s Jane’s turn to speak now.”

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    2. ferrina*

      Or even:

      “Hey Andy, you interrupted me there. I’m going to finish what I was saying…so the widget production can be increased by…”

      What happens if you calmly name what happened, then continue in the moment?

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    3. Anon for this*

      “Once I emailed him after a call and kinda let it be known that we missed a good chunk of the conversation because he was speaking. He apologized profusely…It made me feel terrible for being rude to him about it.”
      There’s a misunderstanding in OP’s mind.
      OP feels like telling Andy he has a bad habit of derailing and taking over meetings is rude because Andy was embarrassed to find out that derailing and taking over a meeting was the wrong thing to do. Andy was upset and embarrassed after being told he did the wrong because Andy felt upset and embarrassed that he did the wrong thing, not because OP was rude to tell him.

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    4. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Excellent question. At OldJob we had a c-level person who was a giant flatterer and would waste time in meetings giving a ton of “SGL is doing an amazing job and she’s so great and I’m so grateful for her…..” etc. In larger group mtgs I (and my coworkers) would internally roll our eyes but if it was just her and my boss in a mtg with me and she started doing that, I would interrupt to get us back on track because it wasted so much time. (My boss fully supported me doing this.) One time I was in a meeting with c-level and my grandboss b/c my boss was on FMLA, and between the two of them a mtg that should have been 90 minutes went to 2.5 hours because the two of them were such giant flatterers and used way too much fluffyspeak between them. I finally was saved when I had to leave for a medical appt but even as I was signing off of Teams they were still going back and forth about what a marvelous job I was doing. (Oh, and I should mention that a few months later when my boss was back in the office we had THE EXACT SAME MEETING about the same topic because c-level was ridiculous and never learned how to do the thing I’d been showing her how to do.)

      Same c-level once spent two full work days in meetings with another junior teammate editing a four-page document. It was insane.

      Anyway, TLDR: feel free to just steer the meeting right back on topic, don’t wait for him to keep monopolizing the conversation.

      Reply ↓
  4. Enn Pee*

    If you have a pretty structured agenda, is it possible for your boss to include the number of minutes they anticipate discussing each topic?
    Example:
    Teapot Spout Project updates (5 minutes)
    Teapot Painting Project initiation (10 minutes)
    etc.

    That may make it easier to deflect (“we only have 5 minutes to discuss teapot spouts, so we need to focus on that”).

    Reply ↓
  5. Antilles*

    The manager is not being ‘diplomatic’, she’s being ineffective. Every meeting can have an Andy, it’s the meeting organizer’s job to keep the Andys of the world from derailing your meeting.

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    2. Elbe*

      Yes!

      What Andy is annoying and time consuming, but it’s the manager who is actually falling down on the job. Running an efficient meeting is a skill a manager should have.

      And it’s never good to let your employee make himself an object of ridicule to the point that people are mocking him on a group chat. That’s doing everyone a disservice. People should have recourse besides just mocking someone.

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    3. Sara without an H*

      Bingo! Yes, the manager here isn’t doing her job. I worked in higher education and have had miserable experiences with meeting chairs who didn’t want to “shut down discussion.” Problem is, academics can talk until the oxygen runs out and need help keeping meetings on track and focused.

      In this case, I do think that the LW needs to talk with the manager about the problem, because it’s interfering with the effectiveness of the group.

      Reply ↓
    4. mlem*

      Yes. I had to learn to *interrupt the interrupter* to say “Annie, let Joe finish, please … Annie, let Mary finish, please …”, as well as to say group things like “Okay, we’re running short on time, so let’s bring it back to topic X” as a meeting runner. That’s the job!

      Reply ↓
      1. SarahKay*

        And as this letter shows, it’s a vital part of the job.
        For a while I was the facilitor for a 15 minute daily call of 8-10 people and like mlem, after a while I became very good at cheerfully cutting people off, either by suggesting that social items could wait for the end, or that we needed to record x as an action and move on.
        When I moved to a diferent role I had a couple of people tell me they missed me on these calls because now they were routinely taking up to 30 minutes, as the new faciltator didn’t like to interrupt the interrupters.
        OP’s manager needs to stop Andy because, as OP is seeing, it creates considerably more bad feeling when most people want to get the meeting done and can’t than if the interrupted is just stopped.

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    5. James*

      Diplomatic would be correcting Andy while taking out the sting, like “Andy, we all enjoy your anecdotes in a social setting, but during the meeting we need to stick to the agenda. Tell us about your Halloween costume later over lunch!”

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    6. Ginger Cat Lady*

      “Diplomatic” is a word that describes HOW something is done. Not doing anything isn’t “diplomatic” it’s “ignoring the issue”

      Reply ↓
  6. Guacamole Bob*

    >Once I emailed him after a call and kinda let it be known that we missed a good chunk of the conversation because he was speaking. He apologized profusely and said he didn’t mean to do that. It made me feel terrible for being rude to him about it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Guacamole Bob*

      Whoops, hit submit too soon. OP, why do you feel bad and think you were rude? Letting someone know their chatter interrupted work flow is not rude (if you said it professionally and not “shut up, you’re annoying!” or anything). If Andy feels bad that his behavior was disruptive, that’s on Andy to sort through and to modify in the future, not for you to manage.

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      1. Unkempt Flatware*

        Right. I didn’t see any rudeness at all unless the semantics weren’t represented in the letter. And it doesn’t seem like Andy feels bad enough to stop.

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        1. Guacamole Bob*

          This letter belongs to the large percentage of letters to advice columns that boil down to “how do I communicate that X is a problem to Y person without Y person feeling bad or getting upset?” And the answer boils down to “You can’t, and you’re not responsible for others’ feelings. Communicate appropriately, kindly if possible, but there’s no magic way to convey something difficult without upsetting someone.”

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          1. Kes*

            Also, apologetic doesn’t necessarily mean upset. It means they’re taking in what you’re saying and they regret the negative impacts they caused, but they may well be glad of your feedback even so, so that they can avoid doing the same in the future.

            But also, even if they are upset (and negative feedback at any level can be hard to receive for people) it doesn’t mean you are wrong to have given that. The book Radical Candor discusses this – if you avoid giving feedback because you might hurt people you’re actually doing them a disservice. Of course you also want to be careful in how you share the feedback, that you aren’t being aggressive/a jerk about it, but the right thing to do is be empathetic AND direct in sharing feedback.

            Ironically, OP is frustrated their manager is avoiding actually doing anything but is falling a bit into the same trap, where they don’t want to say anything further to Andy because, to some degree, it’s easier not to, because they don’t want to feel bad that Andy might feel bad

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        2. Overthinking It*

          OP objected, and he DID stop. In OP’s meetings. It wasn’t made clear that EVERYONE would prefer he didn’t do this.

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      2. Kes*

        I agree – nothing there sounds rude. Honestly I think it’s more rude not to say anything to Andy while having a group chat shit-talking him behind his back. Giving him important feedback that will help him be more professional and stop alienating his coworkers is the kind thing to do here.

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        1. Overthinking It*

          Yeah, the text thing is really quite mean. While Andy is struggling to connect, instead of helping him (by straightening out his behavior, and/or actually socializing with him in an appropriate time and place) the rest of the group is actually bonding over mocking him. The irony!

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        2. Sloanicota*

          I do think OP needs to a) get off those chats and b) make sure they never say anything in the “piling on” spirit that you would be embarrassed to have Andy read while sitting across the table from you. Where I come from, the definition of “Midwest Nice” is to feel bad even asking Andy to stop derailing the agenda while secretly participating in a sh*t thread about him. I do totally understand the instinct, but it’s not kind, or nice, to keep things from him and talk about it about his back. I realize OP probably isn’t the main instigator and that these things are social. Reminds me of the “bingo” boss thing in a past letter. Once you’re playing bingo, you’re out of line.

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          1. MigraineMonth*

            The Midwest Nice thing is so true. I didn’t even know how to speak Passive Aggressive before I came to the Midwest!

            It’s not quite the same thing, but I have a couple of coworkers who wander off into overly technical explanations-turned-monologues in meetings. Not only do both of them respond well to reminders about staying on-topic/on-schedule, they’ve privately thanked me afterwards for redirecting them.

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      3. pally*

        Yes! After all this is work, not social hour. He’s actions are not adding to the work product. Therefore, it must be curtailed. Ideally by the one running the meeting.

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  7. I should really pick a name*

    If Andy is interrupting, a simple “I’d like to finish hearing what was saying” should work, and you don’t need to be running the meeting to say it.

    I’m kind of surprised that this is such a problem that people are texting each other about it, but no one is willing to speak up in the moment.

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    1. Antilles*

      I suspect the reason nobody is willing to speak up in the moment is because the manager is running the meeting and isn’t saying anything. The usual protocol is that attendees take their cue from the meeting organizer, so if she’s unwilling to do anything, it can feel like it’s not really your place to say anything.

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      1. Sloanicota*

        I actually think OP can lead the coworkers in being empowered enough to (kindly but directly) redirect Andy without the bosses’ active participation; most likely, a meeting facilitator too wimpy to address an Andy is also too wimpy to have an issue with OP and others doing so. Reminds me of the Obama era thing where the women agreed to amplify each other. They didn’t need senior leadership to implement that.

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        1. fhqwhgads*

          You’re totally right that OP can start the pattern now. However, I do think Antilles’s explanation for why that hasn’t already happened is probably spot on.

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    2. Lea*

      When you have someone like they tend to be extremely obviously and most people don’t want to be rude to coworkers and so it sort of goes on. Multiple strategies get tried that feel more polite then telling someone to shut it

      I never had a coworker like this before and they’re really difficult and frustrating

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    3. MigraineMonth*

      It sounds like the struggle is as much with Andy’s redirections and off-topic rambles as his interruptions. It’s harder to reprimand someone when you *were* finished with what you were saying, you just really wanted to hear from Barbara, Cory or Dan about the topic at hand rather than about Andy’s pets.

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    4. Paint N Drip*

      WHY is the manager or meeting organizer not jumping on that mute button?? Mute Andy and say ‘Andy you’re heading off track, so I’m going to mute you so X can finish their update’

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      2. MigraineMonth*

        Muting someone while they were speaking in a meeting, even if they were interrupting/off topic, would read as pretty aggressive in my office. It would be similar to telling someone “shut up” or hanging up on them.

        If Andy ignored a request to stop or repeatedly interrupted after being told to stop, forcing him to mute would be acceptable, but the main problem seems to be that *no one is telling him to stop* at the moment the behavior is occurring.

        (If you had to mute Andy for a moment in order to ask him not to interrupt, because two people talking simultaneously breaks Zoom, that would be an exception, but in that case you’d take him off mute as soon as you were done speaking. Note that this does NOT apply if the person doesn’t realize their mic is on; in that case, forcing them mute is both the kindest and most efficient thing to do.)

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  8. Lol no*

    I feel bad for the Andys of the world. Working from home for going on five years clearly isn’t his style, and he’s not alone in that. Not that we all have to treat work as social time, and obviously the point of the meeting is to address work items, but my money is on he’s struggling to connect with his colleagues virtually.

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    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It’s going to be even harder for him to connect with them if he’s alienating them every time he opens is mouth, though.

      Reply ↓
      1. ShanShan*

        Nobody is suggesting just letting him continue to do it. We’re just suggesting approaching the problem with some more compassion.

        Reply ↓
    3. TQB*

      It has GOT to be possible to align the Andy’s with the in-person jobs so that all the folks who are happy at home can do the remote ones! Why does this always seem to be a mismatch??

      Reply ↓
      1. Peanut Hamper*

        This is the ultimate long term solution. Andy needs an in-person job where he can get the personal contact he apparently needs.

        Reply ↓
        1. Ms Remote*

          That’s not a solution. At a past job I worked with someone like Andy who would find people at their desk and start a conversation with her captive audience. She was definitely lonely, but still it was extremely draining to have her talk at me every day while I was trying to work on my projects. I don’t think this is a remote vs in person issue, I think someone needs to have a candid conversation with Andy and explicitly tell him to stop.

          Reply ↓
    4. Sloanicota*

      Actually I know a couple people like this in real life too. They have some social obliviousness and can’t calibrate well on friendly vs annoying. At least the ones I’m thinking of would probably appreciate some guidance TBH. Their experience is “I try to be friendly but it seems like nobody likes me, and I don’t know why.”

      Reply ↓
      2. ferrina*

        Yeah, I know some people who are bad about interrupting due to neurodiversity or social awkwardness (I’m ADHD, and when my symptoms are flaring, I can be really bad about the interrupting).
        And there’s also some people that are just rude and don’t listen to others, or even talk over others as a power play (though it doesn’t sound like Andy is doing the last one).

        The difference is in how they react to feedback. It sounds like no one is giving Andy much feedback- try in the moment saying “hey Andy, you interrupted me there. Let me finish”. If he’s a well-meaning person, he’ll react in a good way; if he’s rude, well, that’s helpful information as well. But first OP or someone needs to say someone.

        Reply ↓
        1. Spiraling*

          Plus, it sounds like Andy was pretty receptive to the feedback he has gotten! When OP said that people missed a lot of info because of his interruption he was pretty apologetic and doesn’t interrupt the meetings OP runs. And in a meeting when OP said directly that his advice wasn’t needed or wanted, he said, “Oh Okay” and seemingly stopped!

          Why not be that direct about these other interruptions instead of snarking behind his back? It seems pretty clear he’s not picking up on the ‘hints’ the team is giving him but is responsive to clear and direct feedback.

          Reply ↓
          1. fhqwhgads*

            I suspect OP finds it odd that she pointed out the behavior he did in her meeting and moving forward he stopped doing it in her meetings only, rather than recognizing the exact same behavior in all meetings. It’s a weird sort of semi-self-awareness that he understood what she meant enough to stop it in her meetings, but didn’t understand that it’s a bad thing to do in all meetings.
            That’s not a reason not to tell him again. But I can see how it might cause a sort of “wait, what?” reaction that could feel stymying.

            Reply ↓
    5. JFC*

      Eh, I don’t know. There are plenty of people who interrupt and talk over others during in-person meetings, so it’s not strictly a virtual thing. Some people don’t understand or respect conversational boundaries regardless of the setting.

      Reply ↓
    6. My Day (they/them)*

      As someone who has an Andy on their team, he works in person and he’s still Like This and it still makes me want to bang my head against a wall. People like this are everywhere. They’re going to be oblivious no matter what, and it’s still a kindness to tell them they’re alienating their coworkers with it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lea*

        True and maybe Andy has learned or maybe he has just learned that he can’t do this with OP.

        I know my coworker interrupts in person and has been corrected in various ways but still does this

        Reply ↓
      2. goddessoftransitory*

        I also work with an Andy; we take phone calls and I can easily take four for every one of his, as he is happily talking a customer’s ear off about his mother in North Carolina or football teams or his past in the Navy.

        We take pizza orders.

        Reply ↓
    7. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Nah, I’ve got an “Andy” and we’ve been back to office as quickly as was legally permissible in 2020. Just…clueless, I guess, is the best word. His job title is his whole personality, and relies on his coworkers to be his social life too. It could indeed be made worse by WFH, but its definitely NOT limited to it either!

      Spoiler: we aren’t his social life.

      And actually looking back, there have been Andys pre-Covid WFH, dating back to the 1990s, in my work history.

      Reply ↓
    8. dogwoodblossom*

      I don’t think it’s so much about working from home as it is that usually Andy doesn’t actually have anything to contribute because his work is seasonal. He doesn’t really need to pay attention because it isn’t usually relevant, so he’s bored and maybe also trying to think of something he *can* contribute to the conversation.

      I think the fact that he’s quiet in OPs meetings and apologetic when called out means there’s hope for him.

      Reply ↓
      1. LW/OP*

        I think it’s a little from column A and a little from column B. Andy is definitely an attention seeker and WFH isn’t his thing. He also just doesn’t have that much to do, but still wants to be a part of things so I guess his off-topic conversations are part of that. Any time he does actually have a role in a project, he makes it out to be a much larger production than necessary.

        Reply ↓
    9. mlem*

      I’m another person whose interrupter was interrupty pre-Covid. Video meetings certainly haven’t *helped*, but they absolutely did not cause this.

      Reply ↓
  9. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Honestly, I’d also assess whether or not you need both of the individual team meetings that your boss manages. Andy can’t interrupt as much if you get rid of one of the meetings entirely! Does so much change between Meeting 1 and Meeting 2 that both are necessary?

    Reply ↓
    2. Sloanicota*

      I admit, I was like, huh, seems like a lot of meetings. At the very least, maybe you can use the fact that this is So. Many. standing meetings to implement a stricter agenda, kind of like that other letter with the daily morning meeting where people wouldn’t stop crying.

      Reply ↓
    3. JFC*

      Yeah, I thought that sounded like a LOT of meetings. It especially feels like the company-wide ones could be less frequent. We have those quarterly at my place and even that feels unnecessary sometimes.

      Also, two weekly team meetings is a lot too, IMO. Could those move to once a week and maybe email updates in between for things that people genuinely need to know about?

      Reply ↓
    4. Lana Kane*

      We don’t really know if this is an adequate amount of meetings or not. I have lots of meetings a week and they’re all necessary. Eliminating a meeting that could very well be important for workflows isn’t the answer here. And it it isn’t, it’s still not addressing the root issue.

      Reply ↓
    5. LW/OP*

      The meetings are both equally important. One is a week-at-a-glance meeting, and the other is more of an update on project status and anything that has come up between. I know it seems excessive. Our team was highly collaborative prior to WFH and the meetings ensure that a project doesn’t sit with one team member for too long. Maybe it’s a bit shame based, now that I think about it. The meetings were put in place to help those with different work and communications adapt to WFH. I, personally, rely on these meetings as a supervisor to check in with the team all at one time instead of wasting time tracking down where a project is in the pipeline.

      Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        I realize that this isn’t what you asked for advice on and I know practically nothing about your work, but it seems like there are easier ways to track where a project is, particularly if it’s just “who has the potato right now?”

        As I keep telling the project managers, who want us to meet with them weekly solely to tell them which of the tasks we’ve completed, even though we’ve already marked each the tasks complete in the devOps ticket system. *sigh*

        Reply ↓
  10. stk*

    Oh man. Now it’s gone on this long, someone (boss!) is going to have to talk to Andy, and tell him in so many words to quit it, because he’s going to think the way he’s been acting all this time is fine. And it’s not.

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      I posted below that’s what happened in our case. Andy started blathering on about his personal travails and it snowballed and I think he misunderstood along the way that it was a work meeting not a tell us your troubles m, Andy. Attention seeking all around.

      Reply ↓
  11. couture zebra*

    You’re not being rude in the least. You told Andy about a problem in his work behavior, and he corrected that behavior. This is exactly why he’s not doing it in the meetings you are running, but he’s doing it in the meetings your manager is running.

    Telling people when they have performance issues is not rude. It’s incredibly helpful, not only for you (and other coworkers), but for them, because then they have the opportunity to correct those issues!

    Reply ↓
  12. Not TheSameAaron*

    I have a coworker who does this all the time. Your suggestion matches what we’ve had to do. We hate to have to do it since she’s so sweet and often has something interesting to say, even if it has almost nothing to do with what’s being discussed:

    Alice: “And in the next quarter…”

    Kim: “That reminds me, I found a quarter this morning and …”

    If we hadn’t found a way to gently get the meeting back on track, we would probably be there all day.

    Reply ↓
      1. MigraineMonth*

        Mine was my manager, who was also the person running the meeting. I figured out after a couple of months that I could just say, “Gotta go now!” at the time the meeting was supposed to end and leave without any consequences. Pretty soon, as soon as I said I had to leave, everyone else agreed that they they also had to leave, and the meetings started actually ending on time. They still didn’t contain any important info, so far as I could tell, but at least they ended on time.

        Reply ↓
  13. LifebeforeCorona*

    ….but he’s making meetings take longer, which some day will be an established defense for murder.
    This is why I love AAM. No jury will convict the OP.

    Reply ↓
  14. TheresNoSuchThing*

    I had this happen with a coworker once (though thankfully not to this extent). I taught myself to KEEP TALKING when I got interrupted, so it became obvious even to the interrupter what he’d done. Andy sounds a bit more oblivious than that, though. This might be a situation where you and your coworkers practice this with each other ahead of time, and then in meetings each of you just keep talking when he interrupts as if he’s not even there. Even if it’s work-related, because interrupting is interrupting.

    Reply ↓
    2. Mutually supportive*

      I’ve tried this but it’s so difficult to keep talking through someone interrupting! I have to really focus on ignoring them to continue, otherwise my brain tries to both speak AND process what they’re saying, then I grind to a halt mid-sentence and look like a total Muppet.

      Reply ↓
      1. Verity Kindle*

        It’s possibly harder to navigate over a video call, too, due to the lags and the way the audio doesn’t handle multiple people talking at once well.

        Reply ↓
    1. Peanut Hamper*

      Yes, I was looking for this comment. We use Teams a lot and muting someone (or everyone) is always an option.

      Reply ↓
    2. Antilles*

      Sure you can, but I don’t think it’s really a good solution for this particular scenario. If Andy thinks it’s a glitch, he’ll just straight up unmute his own mic and keep right on chatting. If he realizes it’s intended to shut him up, it comes off as far more passive-aggressive than using your words like a professional adult.

      Muting participants is a useful tool, but it’s more served for addressing accidental hot mics, “someone’s got an echo so I’m muting everyone”, or large group calls than talkative Andy at a small department meeting.

      Reply ↓
      1. commensally*

        Individuals can mute participants on their end, too, and that can’t be undone from the other side. Which is very much a last-ditch solution, but if the issue is “Andy is talking over everybody else’s discussion” and the manager refuses to do anything, you can share that little tidbit with your coworkers and just all carry on as usual letting the manager talk to Andy.

        Also, it should be possible for there to be a meeting moderator who can mute a participant globally that they can’t undo. If the manager *is* invested in helping, if you establish a policy that you will be muted unless you’ve been asked to speak as a time-saving measure, it can really help establish a new norm.

        Reply ↓
        1. Antilles*

          The individual mute only works if you’re completely confident Andy will never ever say anything work-related you need to hear or respond to, never ask you a direct question that makes your manager go “OP, are you not listening?”, or anything else that falls back on you. In any case, the rest of the meeting would wait for Andy to stop, so you might get to hear 2 minutes of silence rather than 2 minutes of Andy’s Home Renovation Hour, but you’d still be stuck in that meeting.
          As for the meeting moderator idea, the manager seemingly isn’t even willing to drop a mild “let’s table that” redirect, so don’t kid yourself that she’s to take (or allow) the far more direct/drastic step of permanent-muting Andy.

          Reply ↓
          1. commensally*

            You wouldn’t have to permamute Andy – just share with the secret chat that it’s possible, and you can mute him when you need to and unmute after. Like I said it’s a terrible last-ditch plan, but it sounds like part of the problem is him literally talking over discussion even if people try to go on without him, and it’s probably a better plan than having a secret chat just for complaining about him, so…

            A meeting moderator might be willing to establish the “mute your mike if not called on” rule even if they’re too conflict-averse to talk to someone directly; it’s one of those awkward work-arounds for not actually dealing with the problem directly. But you’re right the odds aren’t great.

            Reply ↓
      1. whimbrel*

        I agree, but I think that asking everyone to keep their mic on mute unless they are contributing to the meeting would be a fine way to address it.

        But then I’m so used to the norm in my organization of ‘mics off unless you are actively participating’ for any meeting larger than 3 or 4 people, that the idea of everyone with hot mics on a long meeting with tons of participants gives me the heebie jeebies.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lana Kane*

          “that the idea of everyone with hot mics on a long meeting with tons of participants gives me the heebie jeebies.”

          Agreed, that’s really not best practice.

          Reply ↓
        1. Joron Twiner*

          Yeah but no one has talked to him about his behavior.
          Suddenly muting the guy is a 0 to 100 level of escalation. Clearly he responds well when asked to tone it down. Just talk to the guy!

          Reply ↓
    4. A Library Person*

      For something like this to work, I think you’d need to establish a team norm to mute yourself unless you’re the one actively presenting. Which may or may not work, depending on how conversational the meetings usually are (versus being oriented more toward delivering information). If everyone has agreed to that, then a muting from afar might feel more appropriate than it would if it’s only one person getting muted all the time.

      Reply ↓
  16. Overthinking It*

    Andy is starved for co-worker interaction, and is trying to insert what would normally be break-time chat into the only opportunity he has to see his co-workers. This is one of the many problems people overlook when going on about how desirable remote work is. Andy seems open to correction, and not intrinsically rude, just a little needy. He should work in a more traditional setting.

    Reply ↓
      1. Overthinking It*

        True. But I’m betting that if Andy can get his fix of personal interaction at more appropriate times, it won’t pop up in meetings. He may continue to interrupt – which would still need correction – but the interruptions are more likely to at least relevant to the topic. And Andy being “annoying” isn’t really the issue – it’s the time wasting and inappropriateness. (In all groups, someone will annoy someone else, eventually. Maybe that’s the downside of in person work. But if it’s not in a meeting, at least he annoys only one personat a time!)

        Reply ↓
    2. mlem*

      My interruptive, digressive coworker was pulling this stuff in person, long before video meetings were common. It’s not proof that remote is The Worst.

      Reply ↓
    3. The Minotaur*

      If Andy feels this way, he can either find one of the many, many in person jobs and let someone who wants a wfh job take his position, or learn to find people to talk to outside of work. Interrupting people is not going to help him make friends.

      Reply ↓
  17. WellRed*

    Oh man, our Andy didn’t interrupt or give advice but when it was his turn on our already useless weekly teams meeting, he’d ramble on, repeating himself, about his personal travails. There was messaging and eye rolls but no one wanted to say anything. Until the day he launched in on his mother’s latest gory health issue and I found myself saying “can we not?” Shock and apologies from Andy and a wrist slap from my boss which actually ticked me off. She and grandboss created this dynamic and didn’t rein it in despite knowing the rest of us hated it. Totally worth it though I felt like I’d punched the office teddy bear.

    Reply ↓
  18. soontoberetired*

    hasn’t everyone worked with someone like this? the meeting chair needs to shut it off. A polite, we need to stick to the topic has worked well for me. and if it doesn’t, I will say this is not the time for that and call on someone else. Keep meetings moving!

    Reply ↓
  19. Kay*

    I find it interesting that you have talked to Andy about it and, even though you felt bad, he doesn’t interrupt your meetings. I couldn’t tell, did his behavior change after you talked with him? If so, good job! That means he is reasonable and able to change. If the two events were unrelated, figure out why he doesn’t interrupt your meetings and bring that info to your manager.

    Reply ↓
    1. Aerin*

      Yeah, that really struck me too. If the order of events was

      Andy interrupted at OP’s meetings > OP told him to knock it off > Andy said “oh sorry” and knocked it off > Andy is still interrupting at other meetings

      …then why are the next steps unclear? Even if the manager doesn’t want to deliver the same message, it seems like it would be fine for OP to circle back and say, “Hey, you’ve been doing a great job not interrupting in my meetings! Can you do that in the other meetings too? As a general rule, it’s best to pay attention to how much the non-presenters are talking, and try to make sure you’re not talking more than anyone else.” There’s nothing rude about that! If Andy feels embarrassed about it, that’s because it’s embarrassing to realize you’ve been stepping in it. It’s a normal and appropriate reaction, and he will get over it.

      Reply ↓
  20. LaurCha*

    I cannot remember the term for this, but if you could get together with a few sympathetic colleagues ahead of time and plan your strategy for bringing this up, I think it would help. You use one of Alison’s recommendations, your co-conspirator immediately supports it, a third person makes a second recommendation, a fourth expresses support, etc. Planning this kind of intervention might seem sneaky, but getting support from people who agree with you is really effective.

    Reply ↓
  21. Tom L*

    I used to work with an Andy (called Terry) and he was a super nice guy but had this problem. This was pre COVID so it was I. person but you just knew that when Terry has something to say you needed to budget at least 10 minutes.

    Really nice guy but frustrating as hell to work with sometimes

    Reply ↓
  22. And on my mouse*

    I currently have two coworkers with ADHD and there is some of this. One of them is at least somewhat self aware and will restrain themself or pull back if they realize they’re derailing things. The other is improving but not always there, and the two of them together can go down rabbit holes to no end at times. I know we’re not supposed to diagnose so I won’t, but I think regardless letting them know this behaviour is causing problems is the right thing to do. More than once if needed – habits are hard to change and to form. If they are well-meaning, they’ll want to improve – but they may need your help and reminders to do so.

    Reply ↓
    1. H.Regalis*

      I think regardless letting them know this behaviour is causing problems is the right thing to do.

      That’s the thing. Any diagnosis Andy may have is a red herring. The behavior needs to stop regardless.

      Reply ↓
      1. good advice*

        not completely a red herring. I was thinking neurodivergent as well which means you can’t necessarily rely on the person picking up social cues implicitly and they probably need to be explicitly told what is appropriate.

        Reply ↓
        1. H.Regalis*

          What I mean is, regardless of whether the behavior is caused by a diagnosed condition he has, or whether he just loves the sound of his own voice, the way to deal with this is the same: Talk to Andy and tell him to stop.

          Reply ↓
          1. Cheese Face*

            As someone who is “neurospicy” and often doesn’t realize that I need to shut the heck up, it can take a few nudges for me to recognize when it’s happening so I can change the behavior moving forward. Regardless of whether this is the reason for Andy’s behavior or not, I see a few key things that we have in common: he felt awful when he found out that he was causing a problem AND he’s shown he can control this under certain circumstances.

            OP, you absolutely have no obligation to do this but if you are willing to it may be a huge kindness. You might consider letting Andy know that this is something that happens frequently and ask him if he’d like a heads up when OP notices it. If the answer is yes and you’re willing to just privately send him a message that it’s time to move on, I’m betting it would only take a few nudges for Andy to learn how to reign himself in better. Win win.

            I can understand this sounds ridiculous and unnecessary to people who don’t struggle with things like this. It can be hard to believe Andy isn’t willfully doing this. And maybe he is! It also isn’t anyone’s responsibility to help Andy fix this. But when the potential solution is so easy and the potential benefit for the entire team is so high (and for Andy as well), I think it’s worth considering.

            Reply ↓
          2. ShanShan*

            Well, yes, but you talk about things like this using different strategies depending on why the problem exists.

            Even if we take a formal diagnosis out of the picture (which I think we should), saying “we would solve the problem in the same way: by talking to them” is pretty reductive. Talking can be a lot of things.

            Reply ↓
            1. H.Regalis*

              What are the ways that talking to Andy would be different if he had ADHD/autism/is neurodivergent in some way vs. if he were neurotypical?

              Reply ↓
    2. Raida*

      yes!
      And just saying “What works for you when you start to rabbit-hole?” and offering to support it.

      Actual example: saying “a-bing-bong” was the agreed signal to an old ADHD workmate of mine and it meant “hey you’re veering off track” – They were always able to get back on the rails before going too far, and they appreciated the *help* because it can become “I can’t stop talking and I don’t know what I’m talking about”

      Reply ↓
  23. cat lover*

    these nonconfrontational managers need to realize what a tank they are on team morale. if the one person who can do something to alleviate an issue would rather let their team suffer then step up and say anything, that says a lot about them!

    Reply ↓
    2. Peanut Hamper*

      I agree completely. I know some people are not comfortable with confrontation, and honestly, they either have to learn to deal with it if they’re going to be a manager or just not be a manager.

      Heck, as we saw earlier today, even nuns can have huge conflicts. It’s a part of life.

      Reply ↓
    3. learnedthehardway*

      They’re not doing any good for the problematic employee, either!!

      The manager in this situation should be coaching Andy on his communications skills. He clearly needs support/training in this area, so that he learns to do better.

      Reply ↓
  24. Luna*

    Your boss is not being diplomatic. She’s shirking her duty. It’s fine to say to a repeat offender, “we have to stay on topic” and get back to the work conversation. Especially after a statement like, “it’s Halloween next week”.

    Reply ↓
    1. Minocho*

      Also, she’s not doing Andy any favors either, really. He’s gained a reputation in your group. This will affect his career at this company. If he doesn’t learn to recognize and correct this behavior, he could repeat it at other places too, and it could affect his entire career for his life.

      If she wants to actually help him, instead of just avoid feeling awkward, she will address this with him as soon as possible so he has a chance to course correct.

      Reply ↓
  25. Peanut Hamper*

    Quit having a time to share personal items in this meeting. This isn’t kindergarten and these meetings are probably long enough already.

    Instead, set up a chat for this kind of thing. People can then choose to mute it, or change their notification settings in Teams so it doesn’t interrupt them as much.

    Reply ↓
    1. MsM*

      Or have the occasional purely social virtual hangout. My team has some people who are remote 98% of the time, and others who are on totally opposing schedules in terms of when they come in the office, so we do a Zoom call every couple of months just to catch up on stuff that doesn’t fit into a weekly agenda.

      Reply ↓
    2. FG*

      I was thinking this. During the first burst of Covid when we went from 98% in office to 100% remote, I set up a weekly social chat Teams meeting for those in my area. (I’m not mgmt but mgmt wasn’t addressing the isolation issue.) People were free to drop in or not, but it was very good to have that connection we usually had just chatting with your cube neighbor, etc.

      I would definitely still talk to Andy, no question, but having something like this might give him an outlet for his stream of consciousness. Of course, that would only work if other people show up.

      Reply ↓
  26. Pocket Mouse*

    Aside from the existing advice, you’ve got to shut down the snide side chat you have going with the other colleagues. It’s unproductive and cruel.

    Reply ↓
    1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Yeah, that part reminded me of the other recent letter where they were making fun of LW. It’s not as bad as the people in that letter, but it’s still not cool.

      Reply ↓
    2. xylocopa*

      Seriously. A secret side chat to complain about a coworker is a basic example of bullying, no matter how genuinely annoying the coworker might be.

      Besides being cruel, it puts everyone in a mindset where they’re almost kind of savoring the interruptions. It’s an unhealthy dynamic, to routinely prepare for a meeting with a group snark session about someone who will be there.

      Reply ↓
  27. Alexis Carrington Colby*

    I already want an update lol.

    OP, I’m sure you know this, but I would tread carefully in case your manager is one of those people who can’t see the Andys of the business world and think they are smart and a leader.

    Reply ↓
  28. Michelle Smith*

    Every single time he does it people get quiet? Maybe the solution is to do the opposite.

    “Andy, that’s off-topic. Back to the widget scheduling…”
    “Andy, please don’t interrupt Sarah. Sarah please finish your thought.”

    Etc. etc. etc.

    Reply ↓
  29. frostipaws*

    Wish I could forward this to the boss and grandboss. One of my peers is constantly getting out of her desk, going into their offices, and talking over everyone in there–and it’s been going on for a decade.

    Reply ↓
  30. VP of Monitoring Employees’ LinkedIn and Indeed Profiles*

    The boss should simply start each meeting with, “We have a lot to discuss today and we need stay focused on the Llama Grooming Teapot Series. Therefore, I will mute anyone who goes off-topic.” And then she should do it.

    Reply ↓
  31. Crencestre*

    You don’t just have an Andy problem. You DEFINITELY have a manager problem!

    In her eagerness to be diplomatic, your manager is dropping the ball – or rather, handing it to Andy to run with it and run his mouth off all meeting long. This is on her, not on you!

    That being said, can you talk with your colleagues – NOT write them on ANY program! – and agree on an approach to take when Andy starts interrupting? “Andy, stop interrupting – I hadn’t finished making MY point” or “Andy, we need to address this marketing question now, not your cat’s vet visit” are examples of what I mean.

    Why shouldn’t you write this down? AAM is filled with letters from people who’ve seen critical comments about them from their colleagues; all it takes is one leaked comment, one misdirected note, etc. and the toothpaste is out of the tube! The focus is then on how mean those comments were and how cruel those workplace bullies are being. And if Andy turns out to have some disability, the issue would become ADA violations and prejudice against the handicapped – even if this was the farthest thing from the minds of the OP and their colleagues.

    Reply ↓
  32. H.Regalis*

    Your manager isn’t being diplomatic. She’s being a coward.

    I have a player like this a TTRPG I run and it’s hard, because that explicitly does have a social component to it, but it is still annoying as fuck when what we’re there to do gets derailed for the better part of an hour because one person wants to tell us about their week and seemingly has no other social outlet in their life.

    You’re not “being rude” by asking him to stop doing something. It’s not rude to have needs, it’s not rude to be assertive, and it’s not rude to not silently put up with crappy behavior for all of eternity. The only thing you’re going to get by not speaking up is more of Andy doing what already annoys you. If you speak up and Andy feels sad? Oh well! You can’t control Andy’s reaction, and as long as your measure of success is Andy’s never experiencing a negative emotion, then he is holding all the cards and nothing will ever change.

    Reply ↓
    1. Grizabella the Glamour Cat*

      “Your manager isn’t being diplomatic. She’s being a coward.”

      Definitely agree! In fact, I agree with every word of this post.

      Reply ↓
    1. New Jack Karyn*

      Just talk to him first! He’s responded well when told that he’s going overboard. He just hasn’t globalized that behavior.

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  34. Daily Fan*

    There are some good ideas in the comments. He needs to be told clearly, but kindly, what the impact of his conduct during meetings. You may not know what is happening behind the scenes.
    On another note, I am somewhat put off by:
    “Lately there’s been a text thread before each team call between my coworkers and I, saying things like “Get ready for the Andy show!” … “Wonder how Andy’s weekend was, I’m sure we’ll hear all about it when we’re trying to forecast for the next year.” … etc. ”
    This could easily devolve into really unkind comments and the risk of him seeing them or becoming aware of them outweighs the bonding of the rest of the group…against a team member.
    The problem should be dealt with by management and not be fodder for an electronic water cooler.

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  35. Velawciraptor*

    I might also get together with a group of colleagues and agree that you will ALL take the same approach to being interrupted: Andy, I was in the middle of a sentence/thought/answer to Jane’s question/etc. Please don’t interrupt me.

    Getting that reaction several times a meeting should have an impact both on Andy and on your manager (having it called out so clearly she can’t keep ignoring it).

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    1. Sloanicota*

      Yeah and add to this the “let’s get back on track and hold personal conversation till the end” redirect. Everyone needs to be consistent about saying this for a while. Take turns interrupting Andy if necessary to say this.

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  36. ANDY*

    Hello,
    I am Andy (probably not literally), but I am a chatty person. I have just transitioned from a very social office to a very polite but not social office. I also don’t have as much work as my coworkers right now. It is super easy for me to forget everyone is swamped and therefore not as excited about something like Halloween, for example as I am. Andy would probably appreciate the heads up that the meetings are not meant to be social. You can use the script, “we have a tight agenda most days so let’s just stick to business”; “ anyone who wants to talk about Halloween or something social can connect with Andy after the meeting”; “ great to hear, but we need to stick to the agenda”. Additionally, I would consider calling him and saying, “you are so friendly and we appreciate that but these calls are mostly for utility”. When my coworkers made a point to complement me on how friendly and enthusiastic I am, but also let me know that the culture here is mostly business so they don’t really talk about their lives or their hobbies. I was so grateful. I was chatting because I wanted to build rapport and doing the opposite. Now that I know I have changed how I behave. He will be embarrassed but will appreciate the feedback.

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    1. Shellfish Constable*

      This is such a beautifully compassionate response — thank you for sharing!

      OP, I’d also like to add my voice to the folks saying that the snarky messaging thread has to go. Imagine our friend ANDY here ^^^ seeing the contents of that thread…how awful would that be? Sure, your dude’s annoying in the short term, but can you imagine how it would feel in the long term if he saw the thread and realized how you all really felt? I guarantee you it will be a LOT worse than he would feel if somebody (like, I dunno, your manager) just sat him down now and told him what this Andy suggests.

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  37. AngryOwl*

    Oof, a whole chat snarking on him is really not okay. He’s being obnoxious and needs to stop, but so does the chat.

    Your manager is dropping the ball and you haven’t been rude at all when you’ve tried to shut him down. I hope she’s willing to make an effort here so you can all be better off (Andy included).

    Reply ↓
  38. AJ*

    OP Can you take over running the 2nd meeting, even for a while? It seems like you set a good environment that might spur some changes?

    Reply ↓
  39. HannahS*

    OP, I think you would really benefit from reading this column from Captain Awkward (https://captainawkward.com/2023/09/05/1405-how-do-i-stop-giving-rides-to-someone-i-dont-like/)

    You’re writing this letter as if what Andy is doing is egregious, but he’s…attempting to connect socially, not getting the silent social cue, and not remembering after being told, once, after the fact. “Andy talks too much once a week” –on the scale of coworker annoyance, that’s like a 1/1o! Your response is to sarcastically trash-talk him in a private chat! You are not the victim in this story! That’s straight-up bullying, and people get fired over it.

    Either summon your courage and say something like, “Andy, I get that you want to connect socially, but this weekly call isn’t the right time to do that,” and if you can’t, then make like Elsa and Let It Go.

    Reply ↓
    1. Moose*

      I know! While I get where people are coming from with the meeting length frustrations and not wanting to be interrupted, and I think that just directly telling Andy with plain words that the work meetings are meant to be as efficient and business-focused as possible is the best idea, it is still excruciatingly familiar to see someone who is trying to connect be considered The Worst Possible Asshole Imaginable to the degree that a dedicated let’s-shit-on-Andy channel is considered reasonable.

      I have ADHD and while I spend a considerable amount of time and energy picking up on and following social cues, I don’t intuitively get them and must manually learn and remember what is and isn’t okay. If Andy hasn’t been in this situation before, it’s possible that he truly doesn’t realize that everyone hates his interruptions, and he would probably appreciate being told to stop. It would be kinder to say “we can’t talk about social things during any meetings except for the end, and need to get through the meeting so no derailments or interruptions” rather than add “oh and everyone hates you because of this and thinks you’re a complete asshole.” The first thing communicates your points effectively, and while I personally would still be mortified by it, the second point (which in this situation does appear to be true) is unnecessary and would be emotionally crushing if it were me hearing that.

      I know Andy’s behavior is in fact rude, and whether or not it is voluntary doesn’t change that Andy needs to stop doing that asap or at least minimize it, but man. As someone who actively tries to not act like this, this would be basically my worst nightmare and I can’t really get behind the idea that people should be communally mocked for the sin of being annoying sometimes when nobody, as far as you know, has plainly told him not to do so. As someone says above, that he is quiet during OP’s meetings probably means that he’s taken OP’s feedback to heart and acted on it, but doesn’t realize that it was meant to apply to all meetings, not just those run by OP. Of course, this is the best faith reading, and it’s possible he does knowingly do this for inscrutable Andy reasons, but his willingness to change his behavior when OP has bluntly stated the issue makes me suspect otherwise.

      From someone who does similar: the interruptions are mostly involuntary and I at least do try to control them in situations where they are inappropriate, and trying to relate to people’s stories is a way of trying to show understanding of someone else’s situation and that you’re listening to them. Still rude in a meeting context, but if this behavior is coming from similar roots as mine, it does come from a genuine wish to connect with people and is not meant to be annoying. Like, I absolutely get wanting the guy to just Not, it just sucks to know that this is likely what goes on in the minds of people that interact with me when I’m not 100% successful in suppressing the symptoms of my disability.

      So yeah, tldr just tell him straight up and then let him deal with his feelings, don’t be deliberately cruel but do be as blunt and clear as possible. If nobody is willing to do that, you just gotta deal with it because dropping hints he either doesn’t or can’t notice/act on hasn’t worked in the past and won’t work in the future. Either way, you really have to stop snarking about him behind his back. Depending on if he continues after being told to stop, either he’s definitely doing it on purpose, which is a different problem that you can more reasonably complain about, or he’s oblivious and will stop if informed it’s not welcome, which will make the problem go away. No matter what, you are being mean and imo, finding a snark channel of people complaining about me doing something that nobody told me was a problem is a much more valid justification for murder than meetings running long. The “oh no get me out of here” feeling is unpleasant, but if I found such a channel I would never be able to work effectively with those people again.

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  40. DH*

    “but he’s making meetings take longer, which some day will be an established defense for murder”

    Nothing to add, but a strong second to the above!

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  41. Name (Required)*

    Andy needs someone to tell him that the only acceptable apology is changed behavior like I need an update about this already.

    Reply ↓
  43. Looper*

    Don’t wait for the manager to say anything, speak up in the moment.
    “Actually, Andy, I want to hear what Jason is saying.”
    “Andy, Fiona was just talking about the project due date, let’s stay on that until it’s resolved.”
    “I’m not finished speaking, please don’t interrupt me.”
    “I have a hard out in 20 minutes so let’s keep the meeting work-focused.”
    None of these things are rude to say, but also Andy is being extraordinarily rude to all of you, so don’t be afraid to push back.

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  44. Pounce de Lion*

    Offenders of this story, ranked in order of villainy:
    1. Manager who needs to manage
    2. Chatterbox who needs to practice self-care. Starved for conversation? This is what bars are for.
    3. LW and co-workers who need to grow up or else they’re going to end up with an embarrassing chat log in their file at HR. Snarking is addictive…and it escalates

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  45. Raida*

    Your manager is NOT diplomatic.
    They are cowardly.

    Diplomacy is about actually communicating and managing the outcomes.

    Alrighty.
    Write an agenda.
    Have a Timekeeper.
    If someone is running the meeting, Be In Charge of the damned thing.
    That means saying “We’re going to keep on agenda here team.” “Jo, please continue” “Just gonna stop you there Andrew, and get back on topic” “I’m going to start running the meetings differently, based on feedback and some suggestions I’ve found for online meeting efficiencies – everyone is muted, you use the ‘raise hand’ functions. The person running the meeting controls the muting to begin with until we’re used to it.”
    At the end finish 3 minutes early in order to run through bullet points of whatever was discussed “Jo is on track for Friday, Andrew’s sent feedback to Jess, Review 0.12 is expected tomorrow. Anything to correct there anyone?” and you save it in the meeting notes/email it to the attendees before leaving the meeting.

    Reply ↓
    1. Raida*

      Oh, and all of this is not only if you’re not going to tell your manager that Andrew needs a quiet talking to about keeping meetings focussed.

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  46. Bike Walk Barb*

    I’m wondering if there’s any dynamic in play around who Andy interrupts or talks over. If you note any patterns those explicitly need to be flagged in talking with your manager about why it’s essential to shut this down. That elevates the concern beyond “we find Andy annoying and time-wasting” to “Andy isn’t respecting every member of the team equally and it follows a noticeable pattern that can leave us open to potential liability” if your manager doesn’t do something. Depends on the makeup of the team whether you have enough diversity to notice patterns around gender, age, race or culture, disability, but if you do then watch for this.

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  47. Bike Walk Barb*

    One more thought–

    Connecting at an interpersonal level in an effective way is part of a good virtual team. This clearly isn’t it. But do you have any other time/space for people to just be people together online? On my team we do a brief “connection before content” check-in at the beginning of each staff meeting. Everyone gets heard, whether they put something in chat or talk. One of the team members scheduled an informal optional coffee break once a week: a 15-minute time on our calendars and we join if we can and want to. We hold quarterly in-person retreats and do some things that are about knowing each other as humans. This makes us more effective as a virtual team.

    If you don’t have any socializing space outside of meetings it shows up in meetings. Create a space for this kind of thing for people who do want to be humans together for a few minutes. When Andy starts down that side track in a meeting you can say, “Andy, that sounds like something to take into our virtual coffee break Thursdays at 4:30. We’re staying on track for the business agenda in this meeting so we can respect everyone’s time and finish by 9 as promised.” By Thursday he’s forgotten it, for one thing, and if others do want to connect they’ll want some of the air space. During that time without a manager running it they may feel much more empowered to say, “Hey, Andy, we all get a turn here.” He can get informal peer pushback and learn better interpersonal time negotiation (in the dream world I’m creating here).

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    1. Overthinking It*

      OP, could you just send Andy a private message in the moment- when he’s doing this? “Hey, Andy, there’s a time and place for personal stuff, and this ain’t it!” (With a friendly emoji)

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  48. Yours Sincerely, Raymond Holt*

    Can you try things like:

    “I was still talking, Andy. Anyway, about the Teapot Supply Report…”

    “Andy, please don’t interrupt.”

    “Andy, I can’t hear what Jane is saying, please wait until she’s finished.”

    Every time!

    And then privately you can say “Andy, remember when I talked about you talking over us? You said you’d try and stop but you’re still doing it. Can you try harder?”

    And even after the meetings you lead, where he doesn’t do it, could say in private, “Thanks for letting everyone speak/finish their sentences in these meetings.”

    The fact that he was apologetic when you raised it suggests he might need forceful reminders, reinforcement etc.

    If he doesn’t change, at least with the constant direct reminders, you know where you are. Whether he’s totally oblivious or whether he actually thinks what he has to say is more important than everyone else’s comments, you’ll be able to tell, and if nothing else, you’ll feel less guilty about telling him to knock it off.

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  49. puddlejump*

    Poor Andy. (I mean, poor the rest of you too, but.) He probably has no clue that his rambling, socializing, and interruptions are driving everyone insane in these meetings. He might even think people LIKE it.

    I know someone with longstanding, poorly managed ADHD, as well as a profound hunger for the attention he never got as a child, and this is him. Constant interruptions with non sequiturs, fake accents, wordplay and puns, the same jokes he’s been telling since 1989, etc. At a cocktail party he can actually be fun, but he doesn’t seem to realize work is not a cocktail party. And he truly believes that his constant attempts to bring “fun” into every.single.situation is a gift he is giving everyone, rather than something that not only makes many people want to strangle him but actively prevents people from doing their jobs.

    Unfortunately, like OP learned with the midweek meetings, often the only thing that makes him stop is very blunt, direct correction.

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  50. JustKnope*

    I echo the other commenters who are concerned about the side text thread. Constantly engaging in negative talk about a coworker isn’t good for any of you. I would decline to participate or shut it down asap. You’re creating a crummy atmosphere over something that’s ultimately just an annoyance. Focusing on it in these texts is only making it worse for yourselves. Plus – imagine Andy reading those texts. If he’d feel terrible, you are doing something mean.

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  53. Jennifer*

    What happened to automatically being muted when you go into a Zoom call? Surely, there’s a way to set it so that people are, say, muted until the presenter is done.

    I have Aspergers, and I’m aware enough of how distracted (and distracting) I can be, that I often deliberately mute myself on zoom calls so that I don’t just burst out with what I want to say and interrupt someone else. Sometimes I’ll only communicate via chat.

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  54. RedinSC*

    Andy needs to be managed, true. Or LW can use the scripts provided.

    But please, stop the texts about Andy. We saw just the other day how demoralizing this kind of gossip is. Say it straight up, let Andy knows there’s a problem and don’t chatter behind his back.

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  56. Catagorical*

    Forgive me, I need to post this: (and it is on topic)

    Knock knock.
    Who’s there?
    Interrupting cow.
    Interrupting cow wh-
    MOooooooooooo!

    Reply ↓

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