open thread – November 1, 2024

by Alison Green on November 1, 2024

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Flor*

    TL;DR: I was part of a company that was acquired, and those of us who worked for the acquired company get paid less than those hired by the acquiring company. We’re also paid less than we likely would have been if the acquisition hadn’t happened.

    I’ve been a teapot maker for over a decade, and am currently a lead teapot maker. Nearly 8 years ago, I was hired by a small company that makes teapots exclusively using a particular bigger company’s special base teapots. A couple of years ago, Big Company acquired Small Company, and kept all Small Company’s employees at our existing salaries.

    At Small Company, our annual raises were always a couple of percentage points above the national average, so although our pay was at the lower end of the market due to being such a small company, we got higher-than-average raises each year. Plus we knew we were working for a teeny tiny company that paid less but had some intangible benefits (sick days were never tracked, for instance).

    At Big Company, our team gets a pot of money for raises that shakes out to below-average raises each year. This year, mine was 2/3 of the national average, when in years prior to the acquisition, it was 1.5-2x the national average.

    The kicker? There are two people who repair teapots on our team that were hired by Big Company prior to the acquisition. I often give these people instruction on how to repair our teapots and they pass on the tricky teapot repairs to me. Combined, they have a little over half as many years’ experience on our speciality teapots compared to me.

    Both makes at least $5k more than I do.

    A potentially complicating factor is that Big Company is in the US and all Small Company’s employees are in Canada, so we’re not on the same pay scale as the teapot repairers. However, I’ve seen job adverts in my area for teapot builders (non-lead) with 3-5 years’ experience offering 25% higher pay.

    I’m considering speaking up, not so much for myself (I’m already looking for new jobs) but for my other teammates, as we’re all essentially making less than if the acquisition had never happened OR if we’d been hired directly by the acquiring company.

    Should I say something, or should I just get a new job and quietly hand in my notice?

    1. I Can't Even*

      I would say something, especially if you get a new job. You are allowed to talk about salary and if they do anything to “punish you” it is illegal.

        1. L*

          I can only speak to Ontario, but discussing salary is explicitly legal here! Ironically, this sounds a lot like the company that I left a few months ago.

      2. JPalmer*

        Counterpoint: Be careful about how you say things.

        Yes it is illegal, but to hold them accountable you have to be able to prove it and that it was related to your commend. Smart companies will be able to easily do that and punish you.

        Definitely talking with coworkers about compensation is a good step so everyone can be outraged at once about the poor and unfair compensation.

        Always frame sharing salary discussions of ‘Remember folks, if we are upset about compensation differences, we don’t direct that frustration at each other, we didn’t individually create that problem, we don’t want to shoot the messenger as that undermines us solving the problem!’

    2. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      If you want to say something, you could do it after you give your notice.

    4. DisneyChannelThis*

      How’s your relationship with your manager? Do you feel like you could raise salary as a topic and have it be productive? If not, you’re options are pretty limited unless your company has a feedback box. If you think the manager wouldn’t react poorly you could point it out, since the merger there are a lot of uneven salary bands how does the company plan to address that?

      1. Flor*

        I’ve actually already spoken to my manager about it, but it was unproductive. This wasn’t their fault! They spoke to HR and got a boilerplate response, but I’d not asked them specifically about the unevenness since the acquisition as it only occurred to me later. So I guess I’m wondering if it’s worth going directly to HR and putting the emphasis on my concern about inequity or going back to my manager and saying this other thing has ocurred to me.

    5. WellRed*

      My tiny company was acquired and the first thing big company did was an across the board(small) increase for us.

      1. Flor*

        Yeah, mine was to the cent the same, which at the time I really questioned because I knew I was being paid a “small company” salary, but we had less than a week between learning about the acquisition and having to sign the new contracts, so I didn’t really feel I could do anything at the time.

    6. Paint N Drip*

      I think this needs to be addressed.
      You might be served by connecting with your fellow ‘small company’ employees and team – are they aware that you’re all underpaid? Can you push back as a group? It doesn’t have to be ‘pay us more or we all quit!!!’ but just ‘based on the raise we received along with the information we have about other companies and our ‘big company’ fellow employees’ pay, we would request that the company review salaries’
      If it is safer for you to start that process after you have a job in place, so be it. If it makes more sense to bring that concern to management yourself rather than as a group, so be it.

      1. Flor*

        I’ve spoken with another one of my colleagues about it, so maybe they’d be interested in pushing back with me, but there’s so few of us that I’m not sure how much of a ‘group’ we make to push back with.

        1. Sacred Ground*

          If Small Company is just a handful of employees then having just a couple of key people with essential skills looking for work elsewhere should light a fire under them. Unless the employees are really easy to replace, that is.

    7. Office Plant Queen*

      This is a situation that banding together as a group was made for. Even just two people negotiating together can help. You can spell out that your compensation has actually decreased, first to your coworkers and then to your company. You were willing to work for a small company with a lower base salary in exchange for above average annual raises and unlimited sick time. You no longer have unlimited sick time and have below-average raises instead. You are also being paid well below market for your area, and you should pull those job ads into the discussion as well as any other research you’re able to do on salary.

      Also just want to note – if your HR are all in the US, do clarify that you’re talking in CAD and not USD when talking to them. Otherwise your discussion might get derailed due to confusion over different units!

      1. Flor*

        Ohh, that’s a good point about banding together even if it’s just two of us – I’ll talk to my coworker and see what they think.

    8. FromasmalltowninCanada*

      I’m not clear – are the employees in Big Company you are comparing yourself too in Canada or the US? Because it likely matters, but in different ways – depending on how benefits shake out. It either makes your situation even worse (because the cost of benefits in Canada is normally lower for companies) and their “saving” by paying you less; OR US employees have higher personal costs for benefits (co-pay or whatever) than you do so the larger salary makes up some of that difference.

      Of course, if everyone is in Canada that argument goes out the window.

      1. Flor*

        The employees are in the US, so I assume they do pay more for benefits (we pay 25% of the cost of our healthcare, so I imagine it’s the same for US employees, but our 25% is a lot lower than theirs). And it’s absolutely equitable for US employees on the same level to make more because of that.

        But in this case they’re not my peers; they’re several levels of experience and skill below me, and for the amount they’re making compared to the Canadians who are more experienced I don’t think it is entirely explained by healthcare costs.

        1. Former Local*

          I’ve worked for the same company in both the US and Canada, and depending on where your colleagues are located and where you are located, they could be making quite a bit more than you even beyond what’s on paper as the US dollar has so much stronger buying power, both in terms of cost of living, higher taxes and conversion rate.

          For context, when I moved home from the US to Canada and transferred into a similar role, I negotiated for a number 33% higher than the number I was making in the US.

          1. Flor*

            Thanks for that added context! I’m not sure where my colleagues are in the US (the company is fully remote), but I know we’re in one of the higher COL areas in Canada where rent on a 1bed would be about 2/3 my take-home pay since COVID (and this is a field that is known for making good money).

            1. Flor*

              “We” as in “all the Small Company former employees”, because it was in-person in this city pre-COVID.

        2. TechWorker*

          I can’t comment on salaries in Canada but at my huge company, pay scales are so different between US and U.K. that someone who reports to me and is a grade lower makes $15k more – and is RIGHT at the bottom of the pay scale for their grade band… not sure that I’d expect salaries to comparable across countries at all.

          1. Flor*

            The tech market in the UK is really different than in the US, in terms of pay, for sure. In our case, though, it’s not even just the strict numbers, but in terms of market rate my colleagues and I are paid well below market rate (like I’ve seen jobs for junior teapot makers with 3-5 years’ experience offering 25%+ more than I make), whereas the ones in the US seem to be closer to the market rate in our field.

            1. TechWorker*

              That might be a good way to approach the conversation, if you can ask about how they determine pay scales because it seems like there’s some discrepancies?

    9. M2*

      I would speak up, but maybe as a group. I would also push back on the teapot repair people who push the repairs onto you. I started doing this in my role, pushing back the work people are meant to do who refuse to do it/push it onto me even though it is their work.

      I know people who work for same company but different countries but salary is different. Friend worked for a Danish country, but in the US. He made a lot more money and every time he was in Denmark people got upset with him. But Denmark has higher tax rates, free healthcare, free education, etc. He was paid more, but had to put more into his health insurance, retirement, no free higher education, etc. He ended up leaving the company because they were doing layoffs and was told people in the US were being laid off first (most likely bc of cost and Danish laws I would assume).

      Good luck!

      1. Flor*

        Oh, the teapot repairers are supposed to be giving me these repairs! They joined our team to do the easier repairs to free up my and the other teapot makers’ time, but they’re still supposed to be passing the more complex ones on to me.

    10. Festively Dressed Earl*

      If your direct manager and HR have no power to correct your salaries – and that’s exactly what needs to happen here – who does? Find out who’s got the authority, as far up the chain as you can reach. Then email them with the facts you’ve laid out here and ask how soon your department should expect the pay rates to be adjusted, just like you would with any other workplace error. (No, I don’t think it was a mistake, but there’s no harm in letting them save face so long as the inequity is addressed.)

    11. Cats and dogs*

      Wait until you get your new job then explain why you are leaving in detail and also tell your coworkers then too

  2. Vibe check*

    I’ve been in my current job for several years. My boss is a very nice person and we usually get along well. I normally don’t take my lunch break outside the office; I just eat at my desk. Sometime she does as well and sometimes she goes out. She will say to me sometimes “You never take your break!” and I responsd I do eat
    § my lunch, and that’s usually all I need to do. I do run the occasional errand at lunch or go grab something if I didn’t have time to shop.

    I recently adopted two kittens. They are my first pets as an adult, and even having installed some cameras in my apartment I get a bit anxious about them, and if work isn t terribly busy, I like to go home at lunch (I live less than a mile away) and check on their food bowls and litter box, give them a treat, and play for just a couple of minutes. I don’t plan to do this forever, just until they’re a bit older. I’m not a person who thinks having pets is the same as children; I have had days where it just wasn’t feasible to go home during the work day and that’s why I got cameras for my peace of mind. But I feel guilty sometimes for being a single person who adopted these four-month old babies and then having to leave them almost every day. Being able to run home and check on them when possible makes me feel better.

    I just get the impression my boss isn’t thrilled with it. Maybe if I had been going home or out for lunch every day since I started it would be different, but she has mentioned a few times how busy it got when I left. Then once when she had to leave early herself, I asked if I could put a sign on the door at lunch and run home quickly, since I had an appointment after work and wouldn’t get home until later. It’s not been a problem on the one or two occasions I’ve done this previously, but this time she said she’d prefer I didn’t. A few times she has left with plans to return and said I could run home when she got back, but she decided not to come back so I couldn’t leave myself. Those are specific examples, but I admit it’s largely a vibe I get. I have anxiety if you couldn’t tell (haha), so I guess I’m wondering if any of this is a problem or if it looks bad on me. It’s hard to tell what anxieties are being amplified by my new-pet-parent anxiety (and again, I know it’s not like being an actual parent!) and what is geninuely kind of unfair. I don’t usually take all of my vacation time because quite frankly, I have to arrange it around her busy family schedule. So that’s another reason why this stings. Thanks for any feedback.

    1. I Can't Even*

      No you get an unpaid lunch. If she says something ask her if it is a problem that you take your unpaid lunch and how you should document that time if she wants you to stay at work.

      1. goddessoftransitory*

        I agree, especially, from what you say, she’s complaining about the place being busy while you’re gone. She cannot expect you to work on your lunch break, paid or unpaid.

        If you’re running late getting back, that’s one thing. But it sounds like she’s gotten used to you “always being around,” to the point where you aren’t taking paid vacation! This does need, I think, a sit down over what is expected (and it shouldn’t include you endlessly contorting around her family’s schedule or not getting your lunch break!)

    2. Double A*

      Why does she know where you’re going at lunch? I guess that cat’s out of the bag (haha) but can you just schedule your lunch break and leave?

      Also cats are really and truly fine by themselves at home during the work day. Especially when they have a companion. The great thing about cats is that for the vast majority of them, you don’t have to be home on a schedule for them and your can leave them for relatively extended periods of time. Like I don’t even bother with a pet sitter until I’m going to be gone more than 2 nights (though with kittens I would probably max that at 1).

      Not to say you shouldn’t check on them, because hanging out with kittens is great, but I definitely think the anxiety about the kittens is unnecessary, and your boss can just get less info about what you’re doing at lunch.

      1. Colette*

        Agreed. You have errands to run at lunch; if those errands involve running home to see your kittens, that’s your business, not hers.

      2. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

        Seconding all of this.

        The most important thing you can do for socialization when you’re a first time kitten-owner is to adopt *two* kittens so they have a buddy to play with. You did that! You don’t need to have so much anxiety about checking on them every day–kittens spend most of their time playing and sleeping, and if they have a buddy, they can do both of those while you’re at work without needing much from you. It’s definitely a bonus for them to have you coming and checking on them and playing with them, but they aren’t suffering if you can’t get there on a given day. I say this as someone who fosters kittens and cats for socialization. Cats are much more social than a lot of people give them credit for, but at the same time, they are also good at amusing themselves–again, especially if they’re not an only-cat.

        At the same time, you should be able to take your lunch! And it shouldn’t matter where you go or what you do during said lunch, but if you keep getting pushback from your boss, maybe tell her you’ve got to go get something to eat, and just leave mention of the cats out of it. Maybe say that since you started getting away from your desk during your lunchtime, you’ve discovered that it’s really beneficial to you and to your focus in the afternoon? Or something like that? Regardless, you are legally entitled to your lunch, and if she’s not back like she says she will be, that’s on her, not you.

        1. ProducerNYC*

          Came here to say this re: adopting pairs! We recently adopted two bonded older kittens, and I got a camera as well. I know they have each other for company, but I was worried I hadn’t sufficiently kitten-proofed our home. Now that they’re a little older I worry a lot less. I would stop mentioning the cats to your boss. Your lunch time is YOURS, and she has no say in how or where you spend it. Your boss is being weird about this- I’m sorry. And congrats on the new kittens!

      3. Jaydee*

        Yeah, having a dog is kind of like having a little kid, but cats (even kittens) are more like teenagers. They need attention. They need love. They need you. But they can hang out by themselves for a while without burning the house down. You can leave food for them and they’ll eat when they’re hungry. They’re just a lot more self-reliant.

        1. Jaydee*

          And just to be clear, I’m not saying that to suggest you should stop taking your lunch breaks to go check on your kittens. You should be able to take your lunch breaks and use them however you want. But you don’t have to worry that harm will befall your kittens or they’ll fail to bond with you or you’ll have to pay for therapy for them when they’re older because you were a terrible parent just because sometimes you don’t make it home at lunch or you take your lunch break at a different time because your boss’s schedule has a weird schedule.

    3. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      Take your breaks. If your lunch break is unpaid time, you get to use that time for personal tasks as long as you’re back at work when your break time is over. Your boss is allowed to feel however they want to about it, there’s really nothing you can do to control that. As long as coverage is taken care of for the length of your break, just go take it and do what you need to do. Your boss will adjust.

      1. My Useless Two Cents*

        And take your vacation, even if it’s just random days. Try and schedule it (with approval) out early so it puts more of the burden on her to work around her busy schedule.
        ex. “Boss, you approved me having friday off three months ago, if you are taking friday off too will the office be closed that day?” & let her figure it out. That is her job as the boss. Don’t volunteer to work a scheduled day off without clear rescheduling of the time!

    4. Heather*

      It’s hard to make a change to something that your boss customarily assumed you would continue doing, especially since you’ve reaffirmed that you don’t leave for lunch numerous times. If it makes you feel better, you can let your boss know that you’re leaving for your lunch and that you intend to do that for the foreseeable future unless there is an emergency that would require staying, but that you’d expect your hourly compensation for that.

    5. Tio*

      It’s not really unreasonable for her to ask you to be in the office while she’s out if it’s that the office must have one person there and it’s one of the two of you; but that means you take your unpaid lunch break *after she returns* and clock out and go do what you want. It does kind of sound like she’s saying she’s ok with that, as you mention she said you can take your break after she gets back. Other than that, I would just continue cheerfully taking your break, clocking out, and going home as long as you’re on time. You’re allowed to do that, and if it’s just a vibe you’re getting, I would let it sit unless/until she says something out loud or starts acting out in some way.

      1. My Useless Two Cents*

        The problem is she then decides to take the rest of the day so Vibe Check can’t take their break. Since that is already a pattern of behavior, it’s not reasonable to just shrug and say take it when boss gets back. Vibe Check I hope you are getting compensated on the days you are unable to take lunch. Would it be feasible to talk to boss about taking lunch early if someone will be needed to cover the office during normal lunch time?

        1. Tio*

          Oh, yeah, I did miss that part. That’s a much bigger issue than just what time to do it – she’s legally required to get that break, and she can do what she wants with it.

          OP, can you let your boss know you can wait until 2pm or whatever for her to get back, but if she’s not back by then you’ll have to leave the front to take your break?

      2. Polly Hedron*

        It’s not really unreasonable for her to ask you to be in the office while she’s out if it’s that the office must have one person there and it’s one of the two of you; but that means you take your unpaid lunch break *after she returns*

        But sometimes the boss says she will return and then doesn’t return.

    6. Hot Goss*

      Absolutely take your lunch. It’s your time, and you can do what you want with it as long as you’re back on time. Your boss will get used to the change.
      Also- your new friends will get used to their routine soon! No need to feel guilty about it. They’re probably sleeping for a ton of the day. As long as they have fresh water and a soft spot to rest, they’re totally fine. We miss our pets more than they miss us. (:

    7. Rex Libris*

      For what it’s worth, I’ve had cats my entire life, and in my experience you don’t have to worry too much about leaving them alone for a few hours. They aren’t dogs, and are probably way more interested in each other (or the random birds they can see from the windows) than they are in a mere human.

      1. Tech Industry Refugee*

        So true – give them some toys, window access, and a playmate and they are super happy.

      2. Everything Bagel*

        Yeah, and they really don’t need a constant supply of food in their bowl. This isn’t the point of the post, but if you’re new to having cats you might want to consult with your vet about how much you should be feeding them.

        1. Rex Libris*

          True. I remember reading that cats naturally eat around dusk and dawn, but if you leave food out constantly, most of them will eat it, and you’ll be paying extra for the weight control food in a couple years. :-)

          1. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

            It really depends on the cat. Cats that have had food insecurity in their past shouldn’t be free-fed, but most cats that have always had access to food have no trouble regulating themselves, at least when it comes to dry food. I’ve had cats my entire life, free fed all of them dry food, and never had overweight cats.

            Starting out with kittens, unless Vibe Check notices them overeating, I wouldn’t worry about this. And frankly, kittens need access to more food more often than adult cats, so free feeding can be preferred. This is what my shelter recommends for kitten fostering, actually.

            Now, they will absolutely beg for treats or wet food, and those absolutely shouldn’t be left out/refilled constantly.

    8. Tech Industry Refugee*

      Wait, so – she told you to take your lunch, and now she has an issue because you’re taking your lunch? It should not matter what you are doing on your lunch break. She is being petty.

      As a seasoned cat/kitten mom, I can assure you that the kittens are okay. I commend you for adopting two kittens together, because I am certain they are keeping each other entertained and helping one another expend that frenetic kitten energy. Playing with them at night will be more than enough for your bonding. Get a timed feeder to alleviate the anxiety around that.

      Another thing: You do NOT have to justify your new-pet-parent anxiety or keep saying. “I know they are not like human children.” I am childfree – my cats ARE my children and I do not need to qualify that for anyone.

        1. carrot cake*

          Yep; same! My girls, my kids, however I refer to them, they’re my soul, and I wear that loudly and proudly!

          I’ve never understood people who object to that. I mean, what or who does it hurt, exactly. Annoy, sure, okay, but so what.

    9. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      A lot of supervisors are funny about letting their employees go out for lunch. At my first job, I could go out to lunch only when there were at least two people who would be in the office while I was out, but everybody (including the owner) had no problem all going out to lunch at the same time, leaving me (the newbie) alone. On my second day, the owner and another employee came back from lunch, so I wanted to go out, but the other employee said that she had to go out in fifteen minutes, so the owner said that I couldn’t go out (and leave him all alone). I lasted four days at that company.

      At a few companies, I had to go to lunch when my supervisor went out. That meant that I didn’t know if I’d be going out at 11:45 AM or 2:30 PM. It all depended on what he wanted to do. I eventually figured out that it was to keep me from making appointments for interviews for a new job to take place during my lunch hour. How could I make an appointment for an interview if I had absolutely no idea what time I would be able to leave the office?

      At one company, I had to fill in for the owner’s secretary when she was out (or when the position was temporarily vacant). There was one day that the owner gave me work to do and shouted, “I need it RIGHT AWAY!” When I finished, he gave me more work and shouted, “I need it RIGHT AWAY!” This continued until he gave me three things to do and shouted, “I need them RIGHT AWAY!” He went out to lunch. I didn’t, because I had to his work, which he needed right away. I was still working when he returned. Then it was more of the same – he gave me work which he needed RIGHT AWAY. Eventually, the receptionist told me that it was 3:00 PM, and she noticed that I hadn’t gone out to lunch yet. I said that the owner kept telling me that he needed stuff right away.

      At 3:15 PM, I said to the owner, “It’s 3:15 PM. I ordinarily go out to lunch at noon. May I go out now?” To my surprise, his face turned red, he glared at me, and he shouted, “YOU WENT TO LUNCH ALREADY!” I said, “No, I did not! You’ve been giving me work, telling me that you needed it right away. Why do you think that I went to lunch? Is it because you said you needed something right away, and I said too bad, I’m going to lunch? Is it because you were looking for me, and someone told you that I went out for lunch? No! Because it never happened! May I go out to lunch?” He grudgingly said that I could go.

      I was furious, because I had hoping that he would have said to himself, “Scarlet is terrific! She kept postponing her lunch hour because I had all of this work that had to be done. I wish I had more employees like her.” But instead, he thought that I was a sneaky thief, trying to cheat the company out of an hour (by going to lunch twice that day). I then fully understood what it means when people say that you really don’t know how other people see you.

      You might think that he assumed that I went to lunch while he was at lunch. I really doubt it, because there was no way I could have finished the three tasks as quickly as I did (even though I didn’t finish until after he returned from his lunch) if I had gone to lunch.

      What I’m saying is that some companies try to cheat their employees out of lunch (and I could tell you stories about what happened at other companies where I worked), and you have to nip it in the bud or quit, or else they’ll take you for granted and get angry when you want what is rightfully yours. They might even wind up losing respect for you.

      1. londonedit*

        Wow, that’s crazy! The only office-based situation where lunch has ever been an issue in my career was in my first job, working on reception – obviously then you need someone to be on the desk at all times, so the post room assistant and I would coordinate so that I’d take my lunch from 12:30-1:30 and she’d cover, and then she’d take her lunch at 1:30. Apart from that, nope, it’s my lunch break (unpaid) and I can do what I like with it, as long as I’m not missing a meeting or something.

        1. AnotherOne*

          I worked somewhere that had a strict no eating at your lunch rule. It was a law firm and admins were paid by the hour.

          I’m guessing around when I started there must have been some case that was essentially people getting asked to do work when they were at their desks during lunch hours, so some employer ended up having to pay back those lunch hours.

          My office clearly wanted to make sure there wasn’t any question that we were at lunch and unavailable so they instituted a strict rule that you couldn’t take lunch at your desk.

      2. Reluctant Mezzo*

        I had a boss like that who kept giving me work to do for lunch till I started logging overtime. She was unhappy I charged overtime. Then we finally got a lunchroom and I disappeared right at lunch time and by the time I got back, she’d gone to lunch.

    10. Madre del becchino*

      Since she remarked to you that “you never take a break”, tell her that you have taken her advice to heart and will be going out for lunch from now on. Have fun with your kitties!

    11. Everything Bagel*

      I think it really sucks that she left you hanging by her going out and not ever coming back so that you could take your lunch break, along with her comments about how busy it got when you left the office. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing over lunch, it sounds like she’s suggesting you shouldn’t go out at all since she basically didn’t let you on one occasion and made comments about it on the occasions that you did go out. I think you should start telling her in as much advance as possible on the days you plan on going out, or just tell her now that you plan to start going out on lunch is regularly, just for her information. If she balks and says she doesn’t think it’s a good idea, ask her when or how you’re going to be able to take your lunch break then.

    12. UpstateDownstate*

      Hi OP, congrats on the kittens! They will bring so much joy into your life.
      I know this might be hard to do at first but make a habit of taking a lunch break every day at the same time (even if you don’t want to), just do it. You will train your manager to learn that you will be out to lunch every day at 1:30pm (or whatever time you take it).

      This may feel sneaky at first but when you get back from your break make a comment such as ‘I just had the best salad!,’ or ‘phew, I really needed to clear my mind…I feel so refreshed,’ or some crap like that LOL. Basically you are showing the value of that break and how it benefits your boss as well.

      Do not ever mention again that you are in fact going home to see your cats. Just don’t do it. And stop talking about them all-together if that helps reframe in her mind what this break is about. One of the commentors said that companies like to steal your break (paid or unpaid) and it’s sadly true. It’s your time and you should do with it what you need to, and your manager is not your friend.

      Best of the luck with the kitties and go enjoy your break!

    13. HonorBox*

      Cats = red herring.

      Your boss is failing to let you take the time you’re given, both at lunch and your vacation time. You get to take a lunch. What you do with that time (30 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever) is completely up to you. That you’re not able to take a lunch hour because she’s leaving and then not coming back is potentially a larger legal issue because you are supposed to get your breaks. Yes, that’s unpaid time, but if you’re forced to eat a sandwich while you’re working because you can’t both be gone at the same time, you’re still on the clock.

      That fact that you’re not taking all of your time because you’re having to arrange it around her schedule is also part of the problem. If it is impossible to provide the coverage the business needs – either for lunch or for your absence for vacation – then your boss needs another person to assist with this.

    14. M2*

      Cats can be left alone and it’s good you have cameras. I think it is fine to go home on your lunch break (as long as you don’t take longer than is allowed).

      You both should communicate better. If she’s going to be out around the time you take lunch, then you should be able to take your lunch before or after she returns. I was out of the office thinking I would return a few times and sometimes something comes up for work and I can’t come back in or sometimes I get pulled into a meeting in another building. What I care about is that someone texts or emails me and gives me a heads up because my team needs coverage too.

      Maybe talk to her and say you really like taking your lunch breaks outside the office so you have time for a walk or whatever. I wouldn’t mention the cat, some people are weird about animals (I love animals). Ask that she communicate with you on days she plans to be out so you can schedule your lunch around her meetings. Then say if she doesn’t plan to be back in the office please let you know so you can pop out before she leaves otherwise you’ll have to take a lunch when she’s gone and put a sign on the door.

      I always appreciate if my team members text/email me. I am constantly out for meetings and travel and I had someone who constantly left/signed off at early without telling me. We had emergencies and things that had to be sent out and I couldn’t reach them. I had to remind them to send me a quick text before they planned to leave and then be available by phone until the end of the day in case we had an issue. They had child care issues, which I understood, but you still need to communicate with people. It isn’t an issue anymore, but I had a problem with what I saw was sneaking out.

      I cat sit for my neighbors cat, even when they were away for 3 weeks in Europe. Cats are totally fine alone. They had everything on automatic and had cameras and told me to go 1x a day. I tried to go 2x a day, but the cat was totally fine.

      Good luck and congrats on the cats!

    15. Selina Luna*

      A largish number of people are telling you not to free-feed your kittens below, and some people are bickering with them about that. There is a middle ground: use a robot. You can buy a food dispenser on a timer for about $60 US and have it dispense an appropriate amount of food a couple of times a day. I’ve seen them where they can dispense up to 1 cup (programmable in 1/4 cup increments) up to 4x per day. This might also ease your mind a little bit about if you have to leave them alone for longer than expected.

    16. Morgi Corgi*

      If your lunch break is unpaid, that’s your time to do with as you please. That includes leaving the office. If she’s telling you you can’t take your lunch break then you need to be compensated for that time.

      And congratulations on your new kittens!

    17. Momma Bear*

      IMO take your allotted lunch break for however long it is. Get back on time and nobody should care about where you were. She got used to you working through lunch but kept nagging you to take a break. Now you are. You’re not doing anything wrong unless it’s a very long break or you leave people hanging all day.

    18. JPalmer*

      1. You didn’t exactly specify what sort of feedback or advice you’re looking for.

      Do you want tips on what to say to her? Or how to manage your situation? Or what you might want to do moving forward? I’m just going to give general advice.

      Convo with Manager: “Hey, I wanted to check in about my current situation to make sure we are on the same page. As you know/In case you didn’t know, I now have kittens at home. This has changed some of my responsibilities and will for .”
      Follow it with “I appreciate the flexibility” or “During this time, I need more flexibility”. Some phrase like “The quality of my work has spoken for itself prior to this, and once the kitties are older, my work will return to that” can be relevant.
      If you want to challenge your boss on the abandoning you, you can use language like “Until the kittens, you were more than happy with me taking my lunch in the office and getting the benefits of me taking relatively little break time. I think a reasonable balance is for increased flexibility during this time. That minor bit of flexibility is really important to me for my happiness here and my ability to focus on my work. When I don’t have the ability to that results in me being stressed and distracted at work. Neither of us want my work to suffer and I need you to .
      You can also make the ‘soft power’ non-threat about moving to working to the clock, where you’ll stop being generous with your time since it isn’t being reciprocated when you need flexibility. “Up until now, I’ve been generous with my time which has included being available for work topics while having lunch, , but if I don’t have flexibility, I’m going to prioritize taking care of myself and stressors in my life over going above and beyond in the workplace. Do you want that or can you provide me more flexibility.”

      When bosses start overmanaging and taking ‘above and beyond’ behavior for granted, they tend to kill ‘above and beyond work’ and productivity suffers. Putting it in your bosses mind that they’re treading on that territory will get them to recognize that providing you this flexibility is a no-brainer in terms of getting work deliverables done. It’s really short sighted if your boss doesn’t make any flexibility for a short term disruption like this. Like how would parents, or folks with medical situations handle no flexibility? They’d leave and take their expertise and institutional knowledge with them, or they’d do poor quality work and productivity suffers.

      All of this adjusts a bit depending on how thriving your industry is, how many other jobs are in your area, how good your work output has been.

      Hope this helps!

  3. Super Steph*

    I am a working adult, and I went back to school. I am taking an Intro to Business BUS101 class at my local community college, and I am disappointed with the media being required for a grade. We had to watch a Tony Robbins video where he mansplains the national debt…the kicker is this video is 12 years old. Even if it didn’t feature TR, this video is no longer relevant. We are now being required to watch “A Time to Kill” to learn more about business ethics. My gut is telling me it is not right to require a movie with a rape and murder scene to be part of business curriculum for a grade, (no, there is not a trigger warning). I have not yet watched this movie (only googled), but it seems to be about morality and law, is there a business decision in this movie?
    Do you think I am in the wrong to expect a business department to adhere to the same standards that HR would require in their courses? Is there any recourse? Even workplace norms not written into policy tell me it is not appropriate to post a meme depicting SA or violence at work. Someone in our group posted the Chris Rock / Will Smith meme and later took it down.
    I realize that colleges and universities can show R rated material, this just feel particularly tasteless in a business course. Worse yet, I think this is the department head’s curriculum.
    I am considering creating a poll and turning this into a research project to present to the Dean.

    1. Ashley*

      I would definitely include this in the end of year feedback survey, but instead of a poll why not talk to the Dean directly? As a working person sometimes you can have a different perspective then people fresh out of high school and the Dean might be opening to listening. Then again if the professor has tenure it may not change much unless there is a bigger push from the student body.

      1. OpalescentTreeShark*

        As a working professional, I’d ask whether OP regularly skips several levels of hierarchy in communicating within the company they work for. I’m in education, and parents do this to me all the time— go straight to my boss (or even just the person they perceive to be my boss) with problems instead of talking to me, and I always wonder if in the “regular working world,” it’s common for people to go to others’ bosses first.

        Your comments about the professor having tenure and “it not changing much” suggest such an adversarial relationship. It’s entirely possible that this is a fixed curriculum over which the professor has little control, but OP won’t know that without a conversation with the professor.

        Why take the risk of affecting the relationship when her “working person” skills should make a direct conversation even more possible?

        1. Nesprin*

          Talking to the university president would be 3-4 skip levels, but talking to the dean is entirely appropriate: the dean is one skip level for student issues.

          1. deesse877*

            A professor’s immediate supervisor for teaching is generally a department chair or program director; a large school may also have a director of undergraduate studies within the department or similar.

            That’s not really to the point, though. The student handbook will often outline how disputes should be approached, and in particular often require students to speak to the faculty member first, the chair second, and so on up the chain.

            1. Rainy*

              Yup, this.

              I’ve encountered the people who think that going straight to a dean or vice-chancellor when they are mad about something is the move, and I don’t have a great opinion of them. Not least because it’s so incredibly ineffective. Like the Dean even knows what’s going on with the syllabus of a single class! Hilarious.

          2. Rainy*

            No. The department chair is the skip-level. The Dean is 2-3 levels. The university president is like…10.

        2. KitKat*

          If a colleague showed a clip including a rape scene without a warning, I certainly would go over their head. It’s not really the same context though, so apples to apples don’t really apply in either direction.

      2. Super Steph*

        I have talked to the professor about the TR video not being a good choice and he repeated himself that it was appropriate and he has used it for two years and no one has ever complained about it. Then the said that student were not in charge of curriculum.

        I have had to take this class to the dean for other reasons and was refused a meeting.

        1. deesse877*

          ok, you did the right thing w/r/t the professor. Sorry i missed that before! I recommend that you (a) find their immediate supervisor, not the dean, and (b) prepare something fairly detailed about what the stated goals of the course are, and how this curriculum is not meeting them. “Inappropriate” is less likely to capture attention than “We aren’t actually learning anything.”

        2. Filofaxes*

          You could try:
          1) going to your advisor
          2) going above the dean. If it’s a community college, that may be a provost or chancellor or something like that.

          Going through your advisor might be the better route initially in terms of hopefully not being brushed off? But the advisor might still tell you that any action would still have to be student-initiated.

          And then there’s always the course evaluation at the end of the semester.

        3. PandaPia*

          I guess it depends on the school, but I know when I was in school, I reported a professor to the dean of that department about him judging male vs. female students differently, and the dean took it very seriously, including getting in contact with a third-party department within the school to investigate and provide training to the professor. I also think if you have talked to the professor about your concerns with the media and he didn’t have any reasoning for why this media was used over other media then I would take it to the dean and possibly press on how using this sort of media is giving appropriate business standards to new students, in a class where that is what they should be learning.

    2. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      This sounds very odd and sketchy for college-level course material. “A Time to Kill” is a legal drama, it has nothing at all to do with business ethics and, as you said, it contains highly fraught subject matter. The Tony Robbins stuff is just straight up con artistry, in addition to being outdated and irrelevant. I would definitely meet with the Dean to discuss my concerns about this if I were you.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I agree! Sounds like an extremely outdated syllabus that wasn’t even well-written the first time. As Ashley mentioned, the dean likely would like to hear feedback based on your adult professional perspective. Many community colleges are trying to woo adult learners and promote ‘finish your degree’ or ‘back to school’ initiatives, and I suspect they want to improve the curriculum PARTICULARLY so it fits the preferences of someone like you! I wouldn’t drag my feet on this, reach out ASAP – it seems the current course is below-average quality, and maybe some immediate improvements (or refunds…) can be made

        1. RLC*

          Speak up, to the department head or the dean.
          At my uni adult professional/returning student/nontraditional student comments and perspectives were given a LOT of weight. Concerns raised by that demographic were much more likely to be addressed than those expressed by students without career experience. Adult professionals often have the more informed take on “my time is too valuable to waste in a class with outdated and irrelevant material”, and they will also share this information with their colleagues who might be interested in the class.

        2. goddessoftransitory*

          Especially as you are paying money for this, LW! At best this teacher is skating on an outdated curriculum that is wasting his students’ time. At worse he’s actively filling their heads with outdated crap and trying to pass off a movie as “teaching.”

          You’re being ripped off and that isn’t good for you, nor should it be good for this school’s reputation.

      2. Clisby*

        It sounds odd to me as well. I haven’t seen the movie “A Time to Kill”, but I have read the book, and I can’t think of any business angle to it. Unless your business is law – it’s been a long time since I read the book, but I could see it being used in a legal ethics class.

      3. Caramel & Cheddar*

        This. My expectation in a Business 101 course would be that we just wouldn’t be watching movies, period.

      4. Dancing Otter*

        I took a continuing professional education seminar a few years back that used “Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room” as a springboard for discussing ethics. (Oh Lord, I just looked up the date – Enron was over 20 years ago!)

        But that was not, sadly, fiction; and this was a CPA society event, so the material was extremely relevant.

        I think there were actually some people in attendance who had lost their jobs when Andersen went under after Enron. Certainly, we were all dealing with the regulatory changes occasioned by the scandal.

    3. Jay (no, the other one)*

      Is that the movie of a John Grisham book? I’ve never taken a business course and I don’t understand how fiction would be helpful even if it didn’t include the violence. I would have a very hard time with that – it would be one thing if I signed up for a course on film and knew I’d have to watch a violent movie as part of the curriculum. But a business course?

      I don’t think HR is the right analogy. I still think it’s worth having a discussion with the professor and/or the department chair, especially if you can get a group of students together who agree with you.

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        “A Time to Kill” is a weird choice. Grisham’s “The Firm” is actually about business ethics, in a weird tangential Mafia way. This sounds like an instructor who is way in over their head or just plain lazy.

        2. Rex Libris*

          That was my thought. The instructor either doesn’t care and is just phoning it in, or got stuck with the course and has no idea what to do with it, or both.

        4. The OG Sleepless*

          Even Grisham, a lawyer, has said that when he doesn’t really know how something works, he just makes it up. As much as I’ve enjoyed his books, I can’t imagine using a novel, or a movie based on a novel, as a serious teaching tool. I really wonder how qualified the professor is.

        5. Grenelda Thurber*

          “A Time to Kill” is really more about racism and race relations in the deep south. I don’t see what part of it would be relevant in any business class, let alone a business 101 class. And it’s 27 years old. Even if there was no SA depicted, it’s a bizarre choice. Makes me wonder where this community college is. Maybe an instructor was/is trying to make a statement about something besides business.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Don’t jump to doing a research project when you’re skipping over the part where you talk to the instructor. Have you discussed with the instructor why you’re required a 12-year-old video? Or why they’ve suggested “A Time To Kill”? Was there in-class or online discussion about either? It’s possible that this is just laziness when creating the syllabus and repeating what has worked for years, in which case maybe they would be interested in suggestions for updates, or maybe there’s a motive behind the media that you haven’t explored.

      I admit I have no problem with intense media as part of a class, but my graduate degree is in media so I’m used to it. That said, there are likely other options that demonstrate similar points, and it’s always good to get feedback on what’s working and what isn’t.

    5. Alberta's Whiskers*

      Outdated material can sadly be pretty common in academia, but especially so in 100-level basic courses. When professors do movie assignments, though, I think at least some of them do it as a way of providing an “easy/fun” assignment, and I expect your professor’s method of doing so (with no trigger warnings) and taste (expecting all students to enjoy/tolerate graphic content) are outdated as well. Do you have the chance to give feedback on them now or at the end of the course?

    6. Higher ed person*

      Higher ed professional here. This is absolutely within your rights to complain about to the Dean: 1) this is a 100-level course, 2) no alternatives to the distasteful content is provided; 3) the same standards as HR would require should apply, in the sense that a business class should be invested in preparing students for work in business. You may also want to talk to a trusted faculty or staff member about whether any other college policy regulations apply here.

      While you could create a poll to circulate among your fellow students, that’s more effort than you actually need for this –– some of Allison’s advice about banding together with employees is less relevant in a context where you’re a student. If you do decide to connect with students, I think a poll would be less useful than an email cowritten by all of you, because it’s clearer who is on board with the complaint.

      1. Also a higher ed person*

        My first thought was about course quality. And that’s absolutely something OP is within their rights to raise. However, it doesn’t seem like the professor or the dean are receptive to engagement.

        TBH I’d be asking myself if there’s going to be anything useful to be learned from this course, especially as you are already are a working professional. I would be looking for a refund on these quality grounds. These days there may be some really good options available to you online as alternatives

    7. Jaid*

      Just read the Wiki entry on the movie and fail to see how it’s relevant to a business course! I’d talk to the instructors and the Dean about how it’s not appropriate.

      Good luck!

    8. ThatGirl*

      It’s been a long time since I saw A Time to Kill, but I don’t know WHAT about that movie would be related to business ethics – there have to be better choices, even if you put aside the horrific beginning. I am a loudmouth, but if it were me I’d be asking my professor how a legal thriller has anything to do with business.

    9. Volunteer Enforcer*

      Caveat that I have not been to university, I am going by common sense.

      I’m unsure if the research poll is needed for your work, if yes then go right ahead. If you have just thought of it as how to pursue the problem then I wouldn’t.

      To follow up on the problem I would ask your professor or tutor (course teacher) verbally then in writing straight after, or just in writing if verbally isn’t possible. Or perhaps pastoral support or an ethics hotline? Somebody who would feasibly have this issue in their job description.

    10. MackM*

      My experience with community college education is that individual instructors have a lot of control over how they run their class. This can be good or, as in your case, bad.

      I would put a fair amount of effort into researching a professor before I took their class. In my case I wanted to learn from hardasses with high expectations, and I was able to take some really excellent courses.

      Unfortunately I don’t have any advice for your current situation. I survived a macroeconomics course taught by a hardcore libertarian, it got pretty weird. I just survived and didn’t take another course with him.

    11. WellRed*

      I think it’s a mistake to try and apply workplace norms to a college class in the same way class work doesn’t belong as work experience in your resume. Absolutely speak up about it, however.

    12. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      Talk to your professor before you escalate to the department head or the dean. They might be able to explain how they’re using the material in ways you’re not seeing at a glance. Or they might not–I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve just been teaching the same class for a decade and haven’t updated their approach.

      That said, sometimes there is stuff to learn from things that do not *seem* to be directly relevant. But those do sound like odd choices for a business class. Though I would think that morality and law CAN be related to business ethics. Often education does make people uncomfortable, so the argument of something being uncomfortable or tasteless in and of itself is not going to be a particularly useful argument against (though there absolutely should be a content warning). I wouldn’t focus on the R rating or whoever Tony Robbins is, but on the actual information/lack thereof you’re learning, and how outdated the national debt video is. The first thing to do is talk to your professor about it. Any dean or department head is going to want to know you took that step first.

      If nothing else, pretty much every college class I ever took included a professor/course evaluation at the end of the course, where students can write whatever they want including complaints or praise. Those do get read, and usually are part of the professor’s yearly evaluation.

    13. tabloidtained*

      I don’t think you can expect college course curriculums to adhere to workplace HR standards. Many discussions that would be off-limits or discouraged in a workplace are necessary in academic settings. Student comfort should not necessarily be a factor in curriculum design.

    14. SodaSodaBanana*

      Hi! Chiming in because I’ve worked as an administrator in academic affairs for several years, including at a community college. If you think there’s issues with the content of a course, it usually goes instructor->department chair->dean.

      That said, instructors have a great deal of academic freedom to choose the content of their courses. As long as they ultimately are teaching to the outcomes of their course, they can largely choose how to get there. A good instructor will listen to feedback and either adjust or provide reasoning for not adjusting, but not all instructors are good instructors (unfortunately).

      You are likely to encounter a lot of courses and instructors that have course content that isn’t agreeable to you (or that you don’t think should be a part of the course) throughout your degree work. Due to the nature of academia, many of your courses will have content that wouldn’t be appropriate in an workplace/HR context because the purpose of pursuing scholarship is different from the purpose of a professional workplace. I’d suggest before you register for courses looking up information about the course and instructors so you can find a course that suits you and your needs.

      1. Nesprin*

        Also an academic but I disagree that this is all on the student picking the right classes. Having objectionable material in a 101 level business class with a focus on ethics is strange and feels more like a professor phoning it in than good pedadogy.
        I’m with you that challenging students is part of a good academic program, but playing outdated clips and fiction feels more like a lazy professor than my genetics students wanting to get into a debate on creationism.

        1. SodaSodaBanana*

          I’m not speaking at all to the content of this course, which would be hard for me to contextualize without the syllabus in any case. OP is likely correct that this content is out of date, and misses the mark besides.

          I’m saying that instructors have a lot of discretion to choose the content of their courses, and that OP will likely encounter other courses and instructors like this during their degree work. The best way to deal with that is on the front end by avoiding them where possible rather than by trying to change a professor to change their content mid-semester, which will almost never occur.

          (Academics are taught to be good scholars, not good teachers, which leads to many of these issues, but I’ll save that soapbox for another day.)

          1. anonymous ID*

            In theory, yes. However, many of these kinds of courses are taught by underpaid adjuncts who aren’t paid enough or given the resources and time needed to develop good course materials.

            If you are in the US and live somewhere that hasn’t outlawed DEI efforts, and have a DEI person or title IX type office, it might be worth talking to them about it. The argument could be made that a movie featuring sexual content in a business course, which is not related to the subject matter could be considered harassment or potentially sexism depending on the gender of you, your professor, and the character being targeted in the film.
            Check your student handbook, it will often have a blurb about reporting. If not, sometimes the course catalog will have info about student grievances, etc too.

            Sorry to hear you have to deal with this.

    15. Talk about it*

      I’m confused by why you’d go to the Dean without first talking to your professor.
      if you’re concerned about what to say, ChatGPT can help. I recently used chatGPT with the prompt “help me say this…..in a way that the other person will hear it.” the …. was my concerns with a couple of cheap fat joke cartoons that appeared in the middle of a lecture.

      the teacher was very responsive and removed the slides from the deck for the future

    16. Yes And*

      I had a very similar situation when I was getting my MBA in nonprofit management. The prof kept assigning videos, which fell into two categories: 1) advertisements from consultants that the prof presented as serious studies of the state of the field, and 2) “inspirational” videos that were blatant Christian proselytizing. (One of them took a perfectly normal Denzel Washington commencement speech at a religiously-affiliated HBCU, edited it down to just the religious content, put it over cheesy music, and intercut it with stock video of mostly white people in devotional moments.)

      I wrote an email to the professor explaining my concerns with this video. I edited and re-edited it to take out all my natural snark and just present the issue calmly and rationally. And then I never sent it. I had been given no reason to believe it would have achieved anything, and at the end of the day, I just needed the piece of paper to apply for jobs for which my experience otherwise qualified me.

      I did write the most scathing class review of my educational career, and I had fun doing it. Although the videos were the least of this class’s problems – basically, the professor was unqualified to be teaching the class at all, and as far as I could tell had been hired as a newly-minted PhD from the same school as some kind of make-work program.

      1. MsM*

        Yikes. My program would definitely have wanted to know that was happening while there was a chance to correct it.

    17. Person from the Resume*

      Do you think I am in the wrong to expect a business department to adhere to the same standards that HR would require in their courses?

      Yes. Students and instructors have more freedom in a class than at work. Not to be racist, misogynistic, etc, but the idea of non-attribution to allow for academic discussions.

      However I do think you have a lot to complain about. (1) Outdated material / 12 year old video. (2) complete irrelevance of “A Time to Kill” (1996) to business ethics (a more relevant to business but just as ridiculously outdated would be “Disclosure” (1994, Demi Moore and Michael Douglas)

      This is a community college. I’m imagining it similar to my very weak online Masters program. The instructors were not professors and did not have PhDs, just professionals with Masters degrees. They may or may not be creating the curriculum. (LW said they think the dean created it.) Complain to professor, complain to dean, complain higher. Fill out the end of course survey.

      I don’t think you polling fellow students would help. However you can encourage them to give low end of course ratings too. Focusing on the content and curriculum.

    18. Long time listener first time caller*

      (Context — I work in higher ed)
      While this doesn’t sound like a particularly great choice for course material, the instructor does have the freedom to choose it. Definitely give the feedback in the course eval, though! Those are usually seen by several people at the school.

      What are the other course issues that you felt you had to bring to the dean? To go up to that level they would need to be quite serious, things like blatant violations of policy or discrimination.

      1. retirednow*

        Not to be rude, but I’m guessing this instructor is tenured. As an adjunct for many years, we would never be using out of date material for our classes. We are judged on the content of our courses, as well as other things, and most adjunct, especially in business classes keep up-to-date with business practices. I would definitely escalate this to the department chair. Not because of the content necessarily, but because of the outdated material.

        1. Rainy*

          I’ve seen a tenured faculty member or two throw tantrums via syllabus before and it often looks like too many films, reading with no attendant substantive lectures, thoroughly unsupervised class discussion, and recycled exams that almost always result in high rates of failing grades for students (because the exam is essentially over a different course). Thinking about a specific instance of that, what helped that professor’s students was to A) push back as a group, B) keep track of the material actually covered in class versus what the syllabus said, C) point out the required reading list and then how much those books actually featured in the lectures, assignments, and exams, and D) after a low or failing final grade posts, seeing the department chair and laying out what you did for the class, what the professor provided, and what your final grade was.

          That particular faculty member had been on notice to his chair for some time, and there were things in dealing with him as a work-study student that I could and did report to the chair, and complaints that his colleagues made, but what allowed the chair to actually do something was essentially the entire enrollment of a summer course he hadn’t wanted to teach complaining that he didn’t teach them anything and then still gave them Fs.

          If he’d just given everyone As, he would have gotten away with it until someone twigged or retirement, whichever came first, but not teaching AND failing people? Nah.

      2. Hazel*

        I think it is perfectly acceptable to say that watching a film featuring sexual assault is inappropriate. Relevance to subject matter is a matter of discussion, but colleges take SA pretty seriously. Ask the professor why they think this is ok. Take it further if they don’t respond. It’s not ok.

    19. CubeFarmer*

      This all needs to go into your end-of-semester evaluation.

      Also, I recently went back to school and I noticed that every syllabus has a long section at the end about mental health and Title 9, so I wonder if there’s someone you can talk to at the school.

    20. Hyaline*

      Ooof I have a lot to say here (uni prof teaching a lot of first year coursework) but let me hit the question you pose first: “Do you think I am in the wrong to expect a business department to adhere to the same standards that HR would require in their courses?”

      Yes, you are wrong. There are many, many things that can be included in university coursework that would not fly in an HR training or in communication between colleagues or would generally get you in trouble with HR. Even in business departments, where the standards may be a bit more straight-laced than over here in Arts and Sciences, it’s still acceptable to use material that may be “offensive” in the name of education. So, overarching answer: Yes, you are wrong to apply HR standards to university coursework and you should disabuse yourself of the notion that you will not encounter “problematic” material moving forward.

      The REAL question is, is this a GOOD and APPROPRIATE use of such material? I’ve assigned plenty of readings with curse words, depictions of violence, and even SA (Roxanne Gay, man, she delivers a gut punch). However, I had a solid pedagogical reason every time. I’ve assigned films that may have seemed off-topic, but that (after combination with other readings, lecture, discussion, whatever), were exactly what I needed to use. It sounds like, from your experiences with this dude’s decade old videos, you don’t trust that this is the case with his film selection. And that’s fair. What can you do about it? Not much–avoid this guy’s class in the future, write a very honest course eval, perhaps email the department chair and/or the director of the program (this may be two different people, depending on the size of the department and how it’s organized). DO NOT jump right to the Dean or (egads) the college provost or president–in fact, this is probably not for you to elevate at all. You’ve raised concerns with the people who can do something if you’ve contacted the department chair/program director, and the ball is in their court to address it.

      And why might it not get addressed? Plenty of reasons, but it would all come down (IMO) to poor standards and a lack of robust curriculum development, either one would be a sign for me to go elsewhere. If you have more poor coursework experiences in other profs’ classes (essentially–you are paying these people to teach you, and if you feel they aren’t, that’s not good), take a hard look at this program and if it’s worth your time and money. Look…snobby hat coming on…some community colleges are really not great. Some are! But some allow a real lack of discipline and robustness to flourish. If you want to just get your degree and get out, they’re fine…but do your homework, because if you want a robust, rigorous, and respected education, plenty will not give you that. Sorry, I said it.

      As to your classmates posting inappropriate memes…yeah, that will happen. Some of them are actually still adolescents and they make bad choices. It’s not the prof’s job to *prevent* that from happening, and it sounds like it was addressed, so it’s really a nonissue here.

    21. M2*

      I would talk to the Professor and if you don’t get anywhere maybe the Chair and then the Dean, but it might not change. What do your classmates think? I was in a negotiation class once and the class came together and complained about the instructor. The material was not appropriate and he gave random grades. He did not have tenure as he had worked negotiation for decade in governments so was more professional than academic. I guess he did a great job running the class previously, but clearly was not meant to teach the course anymore. We first went to him and when nothing changed went to the Associate Dean for Graduate education who took it seriously. He didn’t get renewed. When it was more than one person and we had concrete examples they took it seriously.

      This is a big deal. This isn’t a disagreement on course material, it is watching multiple movies (?) for a class.

      I have relatives who got EdD and PhDs from what I feel are “pay for your degree type-schools” (one of my relatives schools shut down so they had to move to another one) where they basically watched movies and read books that were maybe high school level?

      I think the DOE needs to do a better job with these types of “programs/degrees.” I am someone who really believes in higher education and worked incredible hard for my graduate degrees.

    22. Zephy*

      I’ve seen “A Time to Kill” and I agree, there are other films your course could use to make a point about business ethics. That film specifically depicts SA committed against a *child.* It is not an appropriate selection and your professor should allow you to complete an alternative assignment.

    23. AcademicAdvisors*

      If you have one at your community college this is the type of thing I’d take to my academic advisor. They might use a different title at your school, but this is the person designated to help you choose your classes, make sure you have the requirements for the degrees you want/prerequisites for classes you’ll have to take later, and help you troubleshoot academic issues. At most schools I attended, worked at, or are otherwise familiar with they were part of the Dean’s office and usually were assigned to incoming students automatically. Some are more hands on than others, so this resource may still exist even if you haven’t met whoever’s was assigned to you, or perhaps they might be available on request for smaller schools that don’t automatically assign someone to all incoming students.

      There might be all kinds of legitimate reasons why this curriculum was designed, but even so a good advisor can help you identify other classes/instructors that might have similar content to style so you can avoid them if possible and maybe help in other ways.

      Good luck!

    24. Benihana scene stealer*

      Not sure if it was appropriate for your class, but I’d like to add that Tony Robbins’ teachings have helped me face and overcome many personal challenges

    25. libartmajor*

      I mean, I absolutely took classes in which we were asked to consume and critique art that depicted rape, assault, racism, sexism, ableism, violence, murder, etc. I’ve taken a lit class that was entirely focused on Victorian erotica, including noncon, dubcon, incest, etc. I took a class on infanticide as a theme in works about women. These were amazing classes, by the way.

      School is absolutely just a different beast than a job, and absolutely different rules apply. Now, is the film pertinent to the class? Maybe, maybe not. I would talk to your professor about what their goals were in including it.

      Btw, read the book when I was in 5th grade, it was really good.

      1. Arrietty*

        Presumably you knowingly and deliberately took an erotic literature course, though. You weren’t expecting particle physics and getting surprise incest.

        1. libartmajor*

          my response was in regards to SuperSteph’s question about “Do you think I am in the wrong to expect a business department to adhere to the same standards that HR would require in their courses?”

          the answer is, yeah, you are wrong. colleges classes are fundamentally different than a business department and expecting HR standards for a college class is just not how things work. That doesn’t mean you can’t talk to the professor, or I’m saying you’re not allowed to be upset, but no, you shouldn’t expect that your classes will operate with the same guidelines as a work place.

          I did deliberately take the class! That was a more extreme example. But even in less provocative classes there was still exposure to explicit material. Classic lit classes included sexual assault scenes, or graphic violence, even when they weren’t focused on erotica. I read Beloved in both high school and college, for example, which includes graphic and explicit material. Was assigned watching R rated movies with sexual content and/or violence in high school and college as well. In all of those I got the same warning SuperSteph did- it was on the syllabus, and it was up to me to look up info about it and talk to my professor about any potential concerns.

          Again, none of this is to suggest SuperSteph isn’t allowed to dislike this & press her concerns. But she asked a) is this unreasonable and b) what should I do?

          the answer to a) is: no, it’s not unreasonable for a college professor to assign something like this and b) it’s totally valid to have concerns, talk to the professor. Maybe he has reasons for assigning it that make sense to you. Maybe he’s willing to let you read or watch something else for a grade. Maybe you can watch around the scenes you’re concerned about. Maybe you’ll find a compromise, or maybe you won’t, but talking to the prof is the first step.

    26. Qwerty*

      What is the specific action that you want? There are a lot of compliants here and you mention that there are additional complaints that you tried to take to the dean. What is the specific recourse that you are asking for?

      Guessing at what you actually want:

      1. You want to drop this class. Be as calm and factual as possible when working the college (can’t remember which department handles this, school was a long time ago). Don’t give them a list of grievances, just explain that the course requires watching a movie about SA which you are unable to do. Don’t moralize about whether the course should, just say you would not have signed up for the class knowing this and are unable to complete such coursework with these triggers. You should be able to get them to let you withdraw without a hit to your GPA. Money will probably be harder – I doubt you’ll see any type of refund but could possibly get something applied to your next class there.

      2. You want to stay in the class but not see the SA content. Calmly talk to the professor and say you are unable to watch the SA content – can he tell you which time sections to skip so you can see the business parts but avoid the SA part of the storyline? If he says it is too much of the story, well obviously that isn’t going to work so what is the alternate assignment he has prepared for students unable to participate in SA coursework? Be calm and reasonable and not confrontational.

      4. You want a tougher course. Get through this and make it to the next one. You describe the TR video as mansplaining so it sounds like you found it too obvious. Great, you had an easy assignment. Your classmates might have needed that easy material. A 101 class at a community college needs to start with the obvious and easy because it is aimed at people with no experience who may have had a crappy high school. Not sure if I found the same video you were assigned, because the TR one I found on this subject seemed like it is aimed at breaking things down to a very simple level and then I got bored and wandered off.

      5. You want HR. Tough luck, this is community college

      6. You want everyone to agree your professor sucks. Ok, sure. Now what?

      7. You want the professor to be responsible for the actions of their students like a manager would. Nope. If a student posts a meme, that’s on them. The student took it down so it sounds like some one spoke to them. I can’t tell if they posted to a group chat or a school forum – a school forum might have a way to report inappropriate content, but since it has already been taken down there isn’t really much else to do. If it is a text or whatsapp, there’s no difference than the guy you meet at book club texting you an inappropriate meme

      It kinda seems like you are itching for a fight and it is clouding your ability to be effective. Choosing your battles is an effective lesson – if you used up your objections on Tony Robbins and the other items you tried to raise to the dean, by the time you got to the movie you’ve labeled yourself as the person who complains.

      Quality of course content relates a lot to the quality of the college or department. Half the local community colleges near me are basically extended versions of high school. The others have a niche they are good at but the other classes are hit and miss. Even my top tier for my degree university had some horribly taught classes – its an overall evaluation with some ups and downs. Just like a good company has some not great employees and a bad company could have some great employees

    27. Pam*

      Watch the movie. It has a lot of lessons in it. I have a post grad degree and this is mild. I’ve complained one time in my college days; a professor who would not stop talking about his s ex life in disgusting detail. Kids in high school read this book. Not the hill to (dye) on.

    28. ThatsLife*

      Curriculum often only gets updated every X number of years (X can be a shockingly high number) so 12 year old content wouldn’t be abnormal at all, especially if it’s on an evergreen topic like the national debt (and how is it mansplaining if he’s doing it to everyone? mansplaining is a real thing, but you take away agency from those actually experiencing it by using the term here).

      Does the movie fit? It depends on how it’s being used. What discussion points came after? Just the use of a video without an obvious surface connection is not in of itself problematic.

      Lastly, life in general does not come with content warnings. This is particularly true for educational environments which are, in part, designed to help you understand how to deal with the things you may encounter in the real world and thus exposes you to some of them in a controlled environment. This is particularly true of community college which is, in general, more vocational than other postsecondary education options.

      Also, I can almost guarantee everyone with degrees took at least one class (often more) that they hated, didn’t see the point of, disliked the professor, expected to be different, etc. That’s also part of learning to deal, and if you get this level of outrage over everything that bothers you, you’ll both be unhappy and be in boy who cried wolf territory if something you absolutely should complain about happens.

  4. T. Wanderer*

    I would love some extra sets of eyes on a stressful email!
    Background: My company has pretty bad PTO politicies and no parental leave policies, and I (and other employees) have been pushing the CEO/CFO to improve these. They do yearly checkins with everyone, and that’s what I focused on in mine. It’s now been 6 months, and I want to follow up to really be a squeaky wheel about it.

    Here’s what I’ve drafted. Do y’all think this is enough? The tone I’m going for is polite but pointed.

    “Hello [CEO/CFO],
    In our 1:1 at the beginning of May, we discussed the ways [Company]’s current policies around PTO and parental leave are out-of-step with industry standards. At the time, you had said you intended to consider the issue and potentially make changes. Where does that conversation stand? Are there any updates you can share from the last 6 months? “

    1. Colette*

      I’ve gone back and forth on this, but where I land is that the CEO/CFO don’t report to you. If there is an update, you will find out when the new policy is announced. (It’s like layoffs; everyone wants to know if they will be affected but they don’t happen until they happen.)

      So what you know right now is that no policy exists, and you should make your decisions accordingly.

      1. Tio*

        I feel like this depends on how close they are to the CEO. I don’t think a gentle request for an update is out of line IF they have a close relationship with them to begin with. However IF you are not someone who regularly discusses this kind of thing with people of this level this may get some blowback; I can’t tell how close you are with them since you said they do check ins with everyone. You do need to be prepared for it to be ignored, though.

      2. Hot Goss*

        I mostly agree with you, Colette, but does it change anything that they talked about it at the review? I feel like it’s appropriate to ask, when there’s something that has come up in a review session (so, it probably has action steps or a vague timeline or something).

        1. Colette*

          No. I think if T. Wanderer runs into the CEO in the hall, they can mention it – but email is too formal, and she doesn’t owe them an update.

          The one exception would be if they’re ready to announce they need the leave; otherwise, it’s out of line.

        2. Annony*

          Agreeing to consider an issue during a 1:1 review where the issue was brought up does not imply that there are action steps or a vague timeline. It is basically the equivalent to “thank you for your feedback.”

        3. T. Wanderer*

          I think a missing piece of context here is that I know two things:
          -there HAS been active work addressing this; individual parental leaves have been last-minute restructured, I know there have been focus meetings on the topic and rumors something would be announced…months ago…but that didn’t happen
          -personality of the CEO is generally outwardly responsive to employee feedback, BUT if people aren’t pushing him, absolutely will let things slide; that’s part of why there’s no parental leave policy imho

          This is some interesting back-and-forth, thanks all!

          1. Colette*

            I still lean towards no. If you see the CEO, it’s fine to ask (“I hear we’re making progress on the parental leave policy, any idea when it’ll be official?”). But email comes across more formally, and he doesn’t owe you an update.

            1. T. Wanderer*

              I see what you’re saying — unfortunately it’s an entirely remote company, so I can’t really run into them unplanned. I did do some rephrasing to come across less pushy, and I appreciate the feedback!

            2. NancyDrew*

              This is a pretty old fashioned way of looking at work dynamics, actually! At my company, we take feedback very seriously and it would not be out of step at all for an employee to raise an issue or check in on the status of something. In fact, it would reflect well on you as an internal influencer.

    2. Rex Libris*

      I think it entirely depends on the relationship. If you’re their direct report, and are in a position where you could expect to be in the loop on where their planning and decision making stands, then go ahead. If you are random person in random cubicle, it would be seen as a wild overstep by many people.

      1. Annony*

        I wouldn’t send the email regardless. If they are close enough to bring it up, they should be able to causally ask in person (or zoom or whatever format they meet). If they never meet with the CEO/CFO outside of the the one meeting a year then it seems like there is a good chance that it would be seen as an overstep.

    3. WellRed*

      Change this monumental likely will take longer than 6 months, especially for a company already dragging its feet. Until they feel the impact by not being able to hire or retain, this is it.

    4. Pocket Mouse*

      I think this is a great topic to be a squeaky wheel on, kudos to you! I’d suggest changing the last two sentences to something like:

      “Are there any updates you can share from the last 6 months? I’d love to know about any progress made regarding leave policies offered at this company.”

      2. Kay*

        This! I think the “where does that conversation stand” line is far too forward and has to go, this option is much more palatable.

    5. Ally McBeal*

      I think HR would be the better first recipient of this email. But if your organization is small, flat(ish), and/or you have a personal relationship with either the CEO or CFO, maybe you’d be ok sending this straight to them. This is very much a “know your audience” sort of issue.

    6. lost academic*

      I wouldn’t say “where does that conversation stand” because… it’s not a conversation, it’s consideration. I might just say instead “If you are planning to announce changes, can you share when you would do that?”

      But the response you got in May was a deflection and you shouldn’t expect to get any movement, unfortunately. You can keep bringing it up, but I’d recommend asking other colleagues to do the same if you want to see time spent on this at the C-suite level. Really though you’ll have to see people leaving over this as a major issue to expect very much.

    7. UpstateDownstate*

      Hi OP,
      I think your email is fine, you are simply asking for an update.
      Do you have industry examples that you can share? Sometimes a company will list their benefits in a job listing so you could find them there if you can’t get the details through your network. While working with a client recently their top designer shared research he’d put together on what other design studios offered to their employees (there were small studios of about 6-12 employees). That, coupled with the minimum requirements from the state, helped convince the owner that this benefit was important to his employees and truly something that only comes up once in a while (although I started working with another client and during my first week four indoviduals reached out to let me know they were about to be parents! LOL!!!).
      Best of luck and let us know how it goes! Sometimes benefits like these fall through the cracks because management assumes they are not important.

    8. Quinalla*

      I would have no issue sending something like this to my CEO and 6 months is plenty of time, it isn’t like you talked about it 2 weeks ago. But it does depend if the CEO actually welcomes this kind of communication – mine absolutely does – but some do not.

      I did like the suggestion below to modify the last couple sentences slightly – made the email a little more warm which I think is always good.

      1. lurkyloo*

        I’m a firm believer in that if someone says directly to you that they’ll do something, you’re within your rights to ask about how it’s going, regardless of level differential. It’s a check-in.

    9. Qwerty*

      This reads to me like you are following up with someone who reports to you. Scolding a C-suite usually does not produce good results.

      My recommendation would be something warmer and easier to say “yes” to. Policies take a long time to change. This is the time of year when benefits get reconsidered. So if they are planning to make a change, it would probably be announced in December (or whenever they give updates on your health plan) Or they aren’t making a change. I doubt this email will push them one way or the other. So I guess the way to treat this email is as a replacement for the normal survey that goes out asking people what changes they want to see to their benefits

      This is very bad phrasing, please only use it as inspiration

      “I was really excited to talk about potential improvements to our PTO and parental leave policies during our annual check in this year. As you are considering the benefits and goals for 2025, I wanted to reiterate that this is the most important benefit for me. I look forward to hearing what 2025 holds!”

      My instinct is to always include an offer to assist, but this doesn’t seem like something you can help with, but basically make the end line positive and forward looking.

  5. Back to work*

    I’m back to work on Monday, after just over a year off for maternity leave (I’m in the UK). Any advice about restarting work? It’s the same job as before and I manage a small team as well as my own tasks, thank you

    1. Beth**

      I am in the UK too and at my employer, it’s super common for people to use up the annual leave they’ve accrued whilst on mat leave to ease their return, working 3-4 days/week for a bit. If you’re going back Monday, it may be too late for this, but something to consider.

      Remember that things will have changed while you were off and people may not remember what you don’t know. One of my team recently did a year-long secondment and when he came back, I forgot that the corporate branding had changed while he was away until I noticed he was using all the wrong templates. So just roll with it, get things wrong where no one has told you and ask lots of questions.

    2. Landlubber*

      My own experience of this kind of thing involved the organisation having changed a lot more than I thought. Officially nothing had changed but various dynamics certainly had. Our grandboss seems to have had a lot of personal things going on, and this affected him, which affected how he ran everything. At the start I couldn’t understand why the team seemed so cold and distant compared to before. It took me months to really see that they were incredibly stressed and demoralised. I doubt this will happen to you… so I guess I’m just saying, “imagine you’re NEW new, and be cautious and observant while you figure out how this workplace works, in case it has changed.”

    3. HannahS*

      The beginning is hard, but you’ll get right back up to speed.

      I found it helpful to be visibly calm and frame many of my interactions with others as them helping me adjust to being back from mat leave (instead of not explaining and having people think uncharitably.) Lots of, “I’m just back from mat-leave, can you remind me of XYZ process?” or, “Sorry, I’m blanking–it’s been a while. Is this usually Jennifer’s task?” etc.

      I’m not a manager but I used that framing with colleagues and other departments and I found it was helpful until I caught back up to speed.

    4. curiousgeorge*

      Don’t be afraid to ask for refreshers on any systems you use, and make sure HR (or whoever would be appropriate) give you a run down on any policy or procedure changes that may have happened firm wide. I think the key is to pace yourself and take time in that first week to refamiliarize yourself with the role and your office. Be kind to yourself as well! You don’t have to hit the ground running on day one!

    5. OF*

      It helped me to set expectations with my boss before coming back (what time I would typically arrive and need to leave, when I would need a flexible schedule, etc.) Being super clear about it made me feel less stressed about balancing everything.

      I felt extremely emotional leaving my baby at first (granted, I got a pitiful 12 weeks compared to your 1 year in the UK!) but that got better too. Give yourself lots of grace and patience; everything is temporary.

      Congratulations!

      1. Hazel*

        I’m going to offer a happier perspective that nothing much had changed, and that I just switched into work mode and didn’t think all day about my child. Bonus, I didn’t ponder work issues all night either because I was busy in parent mode. And I was a better parent for having other different challenges during the day. I also managed a team and had just inherited them before I went on a long mat leave. It was fine. Of course give yourself grace to have all the feelings; but don’t have too much anticipatory worry. You’ll find your way.

    6. allathian*

      I’m in Finland and I went back to work when my son was two. For the first six months I worked 6 hours per day, after that my husband and I were mostly able to do shifts so that one’d go to the office early and leave earlier and pick him up from daycare, while the other would drop him off a bit later. That said, it wasn’t always possible due to my husband traveling on business, but that worked out because the carers realized that he was a lot calmer when he was the first kid in his group to arrive. He’s introverted enough that he benefited from a calm start, and after that we dropped him off at 7 without guilt. I did feel a bit guilty on the days when he was also the last to leave, although that happened maybe once a year because my MIL used to live a block from the daycare and she was our designated backup who was willing to go get him when neither of us could.

      She used to be a nurse and she was available if he got sick during the day. I also trusted her judgment, if she called me and said he needed to go to the doctor, I’d book an appointment from work and pick him up. She was often also willing to babysit him for a day or two when I and/or my husband returned to work. But the first two years in daycare were rough, he was sick at least a week every month.

      That said, I was happy to return to work, I loved being valued for my expertise rather than just as a mom and wife. And the bliss of being able to each lunch and go to the bathroom in peace!

    7. bamcheeks*

      Don’t judge whether you’ve made A Terrible Mistake for at least 3-6 months. It will feel deeply weird for at least 6-10 weeks, maybe longer, but it doesn’t mean it will feel that way forever.

      Good luck!

    8. Former Local*

      My return to work after mat leave was easier than I was expecting from a “work” perspective, (turns out a year isn’t that long in a big slow moving company lol) and harder on the personal side. Scheduling pickups/drop offs, needing to leave work On Time for daycare pickup, and especially getting home and getting dinner on the table before bath time/bed time we’re really challenging for me for the first few weeks. Give yourself more grace than I did when it comes to your new schedule – it’s really hard at first, but then you get used to it. Kind of like how you get used to the life change of bringing home a newborn lol.

  6. NoID*

    My manager is fairly new to the role and is using a lot of reels and tiktoks to learn. Recently, we were asked to fill out a Let it Snow/Go column on a spreadsheet with “what would make our world better.” It seems like something hokey out of a book or from an influencer, but we have no context. Does anybody know where it is from?

    2. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      Push back and ask for context. This sounds like an inappropriate waste of time to me, but I don’t know what kind of work you do, so maybe it’s not.

      1. A Book about Metals*

        I don’t know, it sounds like a new manager actually trying to get feedback from their employees – not sure what is inappropriate about that

    3. Clisby*

      Let it Snow is a popular Christmas song, and Let it Go is from the movie Frozen, but that’s all I got.

    4. JustMyImagination*

      We’ve done a start/stop/pause activity where we looked at our tasks vs goals to see if there were things we could pause or stop to free up resources to meet our goals. This sounds like a rebranded version to that.

      1. Rage*

        Yes as part of my regular 1:1 meetings with my supervisor, there is a template form for me to complete prior to the meeting, just to give some structure on what I feel is going well, not so well, etc. One of the sections is “what work should be paused, is not useful, etc?” I can see how “Let it Go” could be used in that vein.

        But as others are saying, I would just follow back up and ask for clarification on what they are looking for.

      2. Quinalla*

        Yes, sounds like plus/delta or start/stop/continue rebranded, but definitely ask your manager. If it is that, it is actually pretty useful.

    5. RagingADHD*

      Asking your manager what it means is useful feedback to them that they are too far down their own rabbit hole and failing to communicate effectively.

  7. Still*

    Outlook experts! I need your help.

    Is there any way to make Outlook automatically use an OOO message whenever an event on my calendar is marked as OOO?

    I don’t want to set an OOO message every time, I want Outlook to see on my calendar that I’m OOO and do it for me based on a template I set up once and never again.

    Is this a thing that exists?

    2. noname today*

      No. Ooo is a single auto reply message. What you want is for people to 1. Use the scheduling assistant and see when you’re busy and 2 not schedule meetings then.

      I have the same issue. When I decline a meeting, I do one off two things (depending on the seniority of the scheduler) 1. Decline with a “I am already booked for that time. please use scheduling assistant in outlook to find another time that works for all of us” or 2. Use the scheduling assistant propose a new time tool to decline and propose and send it with the message “Afraid I’m already booked—suggesting the following time that works instead.”

      Of course if I’m not the most senior person in the meeting—or if there are bunch of us in the meeting—I may simply reschedule my conflicting meeting the same way.

      1. Riley*

        What you want is for people to 1. Use the scheduling assistant and see when you’re busy and 2 not schedule meetings then.

        But that’s madness

    3. Sociology Rocks*

      I don’t know the answer to this but it feels like something that SHOULD exist. I see what you are trying to do and it’s very clever and seems ideal. Apple has a shortcuts function on your phone that basically lets you set automated “if this, then that”, and there’s probably an outlook add on that can do similar. I know outlook can auto decline things if it’s a meeting room or something. And outlook can auto reply with certain conditions. The issue is getting those things to interact with each other and make the calendar a condition that produces an email response. I’m going to be noodling on this all day lol

      1. Sociology Rocks*

        Some digging shows if you go to file, then up to options, then calendar, scroll down to auto accept and decline and you want auto decline meeting requests that conflict with existing appointments or meetings, just got to figure out a way to make it only do so when the conflict is marked as out of office. I can’t experiment with it myself due to org setting it looks like.

    4. Choggy*

      You can’t create a rule to set an automated reply based off a calendar event status using Outlook. If you have Power Automate you can try creating a flow to automate tasks.

    5. Strive to Excel*

      Nope, sorry.

      OOO messages are/should be used when a person is going to be away for a significant period of time, which I generally consider 2+ business days (1 business day if it’s a Friday). If it’s for a period of time less than a day, then you shouldn’t have to set an OOO message because email isn’t chat. The point of it is asynchronous communication. There’s a lot of time’s I’ve set a short event to OOO because I want anyone looking at my calendar to know I will be away from my computer, but I don’t bother with a message because I’ll be back in two hours.

      Also, OOO messages are hand-customized. The good ones are “I am away from Date to Date/indefinitely, I will have no/some/regular availability for emergencies, here’s how to contact my backup”. That’s a lot of information for Outlook to have to automatically generate!

      Possibly you could do something with some shell commands, but that seems like it would be a nuisance.

      1. A Significant Tree*

        They sort of have a feature like that already, if you also have and use Teams. There are multiple OOO-related passive indications about someone’s availability, but as far as I can tell, nothing that produces a direct response to people unless you also have an OOO auto-reply set in Outlook.

    7. RedinSC*

      Chat GPT tells me that you can do this if you use a tool called Power Automate.

      You can get the full details if you ask chat gpt your question. I got a six step explanation about how to automate the flow.

      1. ThatGirl*

        This is not directed at you, so much, but I’ve seen several “ask ChatGPT!” answers in this comment section already today and … no! This is what google is for, ChatGPT is not a search engine, it just makes things up. Argh.

        1. RedinSC*

          Honestly ChatGPT has helped me with things like Excel formulas and some grammar questions, so I ask it a lot of things. I always verify, but it can be a useful tool.

          1. ThatGirl*

            Those are things google can help you with. And I wouldn’t trust it on grammar considering all the things I’ve seen it get wrong.

    8. Still*

      Thank you all for your replies. Looks like I’m going to have to look into Power Automate! I’ll keep you posted if I actually get around to doing it.

      It really seems like such an obvious feature to me. If it’s possible to have an auto reply, you’d think it would be easy to have it turn on and off automatically.

    9. Kay*

      As a response to emails? Please no. I don’t want my inbox clogged with “I’m in a meeting”, “I’ll be back this afternoon” type messages. I already assume this and have properly set my expectations for a response time. If I needed something urgent I would be calling anyway.

  8. Homer Simpson, Smiling Politely*

    Just venting. I’m on my 3rd week as a manager and it was a rough week. Made some errors, dropped a ball or two – all around, just not feeling like I “brought it” this week. I know where and how to improve on the mistakes but my self esteem is in the garbage right now, so I’m putting this out there for catharsis. Thank goodness for the weekend.

    1. Alberta's Whiskers*

      Sometimes knowing your manager knows they dropped the ball – and is willing to acknowledge it – gives me more confidence in them, speaking from a “managed” perspective. Good job knowing what you missed, and enjoy your break!

    2. UnCivilServant*

      I’m not expert, but I did go looking and have not seen anything that might do that.

      It is my understanding that the intended purpose of out of office messages was for longer absenses, so frequent small changes are not what Microsoft expected.

    3. Susie*

      Transition to management is incredibly hard, especially for those of us who have incredibly hard expectations of ourselves.
      It an art to find the line between helping your team feel supported and setting high expectations for them, all while not being able to control the individual pieces.
      I’m just starting year two of managing in my current position, though I’ve done it before. Last year, I really struggled since every task was new, and I hadn’t built efficiency by having routines. This year is better, though I’m still growing in this position. I hope you will look back soon and be proud of your growth, even though you’re in low moment right now.

    4. Snarl Trolley*

      You got this! You’re self-aware on where and how to improve and IMO that alone puts you way above the typical cut for management. Here’s to your weekend being restful and your brain getting its due off-switch from work-mode so you can reboot and kick ass on Monday.

    6. Parenthesis Guy*

      It’s your third week. Can’t expect to be perfect from the start. If you had nothing to learn from this position, you’d be ready for another promotion.

    7. SansaStark*

      I’m about 3 years into my first management job and ooof some weeks are full of “learning opportunities” that leave me feeling terrible. The fact that you’re reflecting on them and see ways to improve means that you’re doing a great job already!

  9. how to pay attention to details.*

    I need help with attention to detail. I’ve started a new job, full of new jargon, new ways of doing things etc. Attention to details (and filing!) is not my forte. I’m s SME. Example from this morning: I need to run a large computer simulation. At this workplace, we have a charge code. The charge code doesn’t work. I ask the head SME guy what charge code I should use. He says: look up the track number on your time card. So, I look up my time card, and find the project number, use that and it doesn’t work. So, a few minutes of back-and-forth, and I realize that the track number is *also* on the time card, just in a different column. Honestly, I didn’t *notice* that he’d said TRACK and not PROJECT. And, I took the first relevant number (time cards have 5 or so columns, and I was just trying to pick the right project, I didn’t even notice the *track*). (while I’ve done time cards in the past, I’ve never had such a complicated one)

    So, … how do you get better? I suppose once I’ve been here awhile, and charge the same project for different things, it will become clear. And, I don’t usually make the same mistake more than once.

    How do I either: get better at details or stop beating myself up about it.
    Thanks.

    1. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

      One trick that I’ve had some success with for attention to detail: during the acclimation phase, repeat the exact wording of any instructions to yourself, out loud (quietly, but aloud) while you’re going through the process. Aim for exactness rather than efficiency, at least to start – even if you think you’ve got the info you need to proceed, take the extra couple of minutes to review the full thing. This can be tedious, but I do find that it helps – especially if I intentionally remind myself that I’m doing it to make sure I’m getting the details right.

      2. Quinalla*

        Yeah, reading aloud helps and taking more time than you are used to for the first 2-3 months of the job while you get used to all the new processes, etc. Like be ok with things taking 2-3 times longer than they would have at your last job while you figure things out.

    2. Fish out of water*

      I am recently in a new job and a new field and, first of all, learning new jargon is just part of being in a new job! Take this as part of your learning curve. I’d bet no one arrives at this job getting all the language right all the time.

      Second: I make myself a lot of resources just for me that I add to when I make a mistake. When something’s not adding up, I double-check the word used and check my personal glossary to make sure I haven’t encountered this error before. Either the glossary has the answer for me (and this helps me learn the terms over time) or it doesn’t and it’s just something new I have to learn that day.

      The imposed humility of a new job is really hard to bear but it will get easier! Six months into this job and I still feel like garbage about my errors, but just last night I looked back on the first material I created for this job, and it provided me sooo much context: I am leaps and bounds ahead today of where I was then. Just this morning my boss provided me with a new resource to help me keep track of certain details, so your coworkers may also be a great font of helpful tips if you can muster the courage to ask if they have any.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Wow ‘imposed humility’ is such a great turn of phrase! OP even though you’re an SME, you’re still a newbie at this job – it can be really tough to be a beginner again, and those skills get rusty without use. You will get into the swing of things soon!

      2. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Similar to your resources just for you when you mistake, I started doing that as part of my job manual so that when I win the lottery, the person who takes over for me has (hopefully) easy answers to common problems you encounter when you’re new. It’s also just useful for tasks I don’t have to do that often, so I can look up what I did last time and make things much easier for myself.

    3. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      You’re new and still learning. While mistakes like this can feel frustrating, they’re how we learn unfamiliar processes. Give yourself the same grace you would give a peer in your same position.

      Slowing down, and getting into the habit of double checking yourself (even when you think you don’t need to), can help you catch more details. Good luck in the new role :)

    4. RagingADHD*

      This doesn’t sound like a pervasive lack of attention to detail, but a normal part of the learning process.

      There is no way to learn things you don’t know and have no context for, other than…learning them.

    5. Person from the Resume*

      Slow it down. Read the whole thing.

      It’s hard. I’d actually say I have good attention to detail, but I am completely overtasked, overwhelmed, and I’ve started skimming and not reading to the bottom of email threads and missing things and context.

    6. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Have you asked “so what are each of these columns on the timecard for – do I ever need to use track or department or teapot code”? That’s one of my methods for handling this kind of situation. Even if you don’t memorize the answers, the fact that you asked will be noted, and you’ll be able to get good stuff from your coworkers like “Oh, yeah, I think accounting has an FAQ about those. You could probably email Fergus about that, he knows me so drop my name.”

      1. Hazel*

        Also making the columns different colours just helps with reading and picking out the correct info. Especially if your brain eventually leads to think wait, the green column isn’t used for x …
        But it sounds a bit like low level panic is making you rush rather than take a breath and read and think logically. Everyone knows it takes longer at first. Many people are bad at remembering how it feels, or giving info helpfully. Like your colleague, who told you the right answer but not in a helpful ‘that’s 5 digits, column a’ way. But you taking the time to find it yourself will actually help you long term.

    7. EllenD*

      Any new job, my first action was to create a list of acronyms and a spreadsheet of useful contacts with name, organisation/dept, number, e-mail and a comments column for what they are relevant to. Keep adding and then it will be useful to new colleagues. I included people who’d left with a comment ‘ now replaced by Jo Bloggs” and blanked their contact info. It really helped when people said contact so and so, who actually had left.

    8. Drainbrain*

      Something that I’ve started recently is having a Master Glossary spreadsheet with tabs based on what area the thing is that I’m looking up, and any time I look something up or I learn something notable I put it in. It won’t help prevent initial mistakes, but will free up brainpower from having “everything up in RAM” all the time and may help tangentially. I never had to do stuff like this pre-covid but we do what we’ve gotta xD

    9. Jaydee*

      Honestly? Some of it is just going to take time. This seems less like an “attention to detail” issue and more like a “newbies don’t know what they don’t know” issue. How in the world are you supposed to know that there are multiple different numbers on your time card and that the distinction between a *project* number and a *track* number is important if you don’t know that there are multiple different numbers on your time card including a *track* number and a *project* number and those are different things? Now you know, but you don’t come into the job magically knowing that. Something has to happen for you to learn it.

      I think the fact you rarely make the same mistake twice means you actually are pretty good at attention to detail. You just have to know what details are relevant or important in order to pay attention to them.

      Some of the issue might be that your coworkers are assuming you have more background knowledge about things at this workplace than you have. Maybe they need to provide a little more context with their instructions. Some of the issue might be that you need to ask follow-up questions when you don’t understand something. And some of the issue might not even be an issue. This is just how learning new things work.

  10. Tradd*

    An important part of my duties as a customs broker is to make sure duties (import taxes) are paid to US Customs (aka CBP). I’m not sure how I could have handled this situation better. It’s still ongoing. Any suggestions? Duty statements are pushed from CBP to the broker computer systems daily, but entries aren’t on statement until the 8th business day after release. Duties are due 10th business day after release. Some duties are paid on the broker’s statement and other importers are on their own statement (CBP debits their bank account directly, rather than broker). We authorize the duty payments on same day statements are issued. For the importers on their own statement, we authorize the payment and then send them a copy of statement with the customs document for all entries on that specific statement. Some are on a monthly statement, issued on the 15th of each month. The monthly statement will show all the individual daily statements for that time period. For those on monthly statement, duties will be debited from their account several business days after the 15th. All this is a lead in to situation with a new customer on their own statement. They’re not a new importer, but new to being on monthly statement and new customer with my company. Each day there is a daily statement, I email it to this customer. I don’t get any responses to my email. On September 15th, I sent the monthly statement. Customer needs to match up all the daily statements with the monthly statement. A few days after the 15th, I got a screaming, crying call from the accounting person at this customer that CBP had deducted thousands of dollars from their account. She didn’t know why. I told her it was for duties. Turns out she had deleted all the emails I had sent her with both daily and monthly statements. I resent everything. Complete shipment documents are sent with our invoices and the individual customs documents sent with the statements have the customer’s reference number. So everything can be matched up. I suggested she create a folder in her email just for the duty statements, so she can match up everything easily. No response. Same thing happened in October as September. Screaming, crying phone call from accounting person. She had deleted all the emails again – or so she says. After the September incident, I had our salesman who handles this customer explain everything to his contact in purchasing, who said he would talk with accounting. After the October incident, I got called in by my management about the entire situation. I explained what had happened. I don’t know if the customer’s accounting person is very new, overwhelmed, or just incompetent. Salesman got involved and said it was not my fault. Customer’s accounting wanted us to send EVERYTHING with the monthly statement, each 15th of the month. I refused. It’s the importer’s responsibility, per CBP regulations, to keep records. It’s not my responsibility if the customer’s accounting department is deleting everything. I’ve been copying in the customer’s purchasing contact. Any suggestions? I’m at my wit’s end with this customer. And no, they will not be fired. They’re fine with work with other than the accounting person’s drama.

    1. Colette*

      I think you’ve done what you can do.

      I might let her call go to voicemail, wait a few minutes, and call her back so that she has hopefully calmed down a bit.

      And I’d confirm with your employer that they don’t want you to send everything on the 15th for this one importer.

      But other than that, there’s not much you can do.

      1. Tradd*

        Employer has confirmed they don’t want me to send everything on the 15th. They’re a high volume shipper. For the past two months, they’ve had 20-30 daily statements that appear on the monthly statement each month on the 15th. So that would mean a huge amount of stuff to send. Massive PITA.

    2. Paint N Drip*

      Sounds like you’ve got your bases covered and you’re in compliance. I guess only you know how much your company is going to push you to provide outstanding ~customer service~ above and beyond that – I agree with Colette to check with management re: sending all the files again, and I’d also be regularly checking in with that salesperson to be sure you’re all on the same page and the customer isn’t providing actionable feedback. Seems like a crappy situation!

    3. Tio*

      I think whether this will change or be escalated will eb dealt with by the importer’s internal team.

      It might be helpful to make a process flow document for her *and* to CYA – showing the timelines that you can show you sent out. So like:
      1. When documents are sent out and to where (what email)
      2. How those documents match to the entries on the statements
      3. When daily statements are sent out and to where
      4. When monthly statements are sent out and when they are debited
      5. The complete timeline (entries cleared from the 1st to the 30th go on the monthly statement on this timeline, daily statements show up on the 8th day after document is sent, etc.)

      The nice part is that if you make it generic enough you can throw it at multiple customers and just point back at it every time she (or others) cry about it to show she has everything she needs

    4. NaoNao*

      I have what I call a “magic question” when dealing with really unreasonable customers/clients:

      “What’s your suggestion to resolve this?” Firstly, it may help the customer realize that they are part of the problem. Secondly, it’s really surprising how often customers have a solution that is fairly easy to implement. And finally, it gives them back power (which is sometimes what the screaming and crying is about–a feeling of being out of control and spiraling).

      It may be too late for this, but also you could suggest “if you have Outlook, you can go in the “deleted items” folder and restore items very easily. But also may I ask why items are being deleted so frequently? This is really causing a huge issue, as you can see. What’s going on over there?”

    5. Quinalla*

      I think you’ve done everything correctly. Not sure what the deal is with the accounting person, but you did everything I would have. Next step would be escalating to your boss every time this accounting person calls you panicking to make sure they don’t want you to change anything. The fact that you are CCing someone else on the emails now, if they call again, I’d refer them to that person who will hopefully be saving everything.

      Sounds very annoying!

      1. Tradd*

        I have always dealt with entitled, overly demanding, and just plain jerks, but this one may take the cake!

    6. Ama*

      I’m not at all in customs, but back when I worked for a nonprofit handling grant funding to academic institutions we’d occasionally have an institution that would try to force us to change our payment processes to fit their financial systems in a way that was just not feasible (we had 1/10th of the staff of most of these institutions and just didn’t have the bandwidth for special arrangements for different institutions). Although I will say none of them ever called me screaming and crying — that’s way over the line in my opinion. Because my problem contacts could at least communicate professionally, I would sometimes just send a polite but frank email with something like “due to staff bandwidth and our internal systems, we can only provide X type of communication, if you need it in Y format that will have to be handled by someone on your end.”

      I think cc’ing the purchasing contact is the best option — I did do that for a couple of institutional contacts who seemed to constantly lose (or “lose”) my messages. The other would be to have your sales person tell the purchasing contact that if the accountant can’t speak to you professionally then you will not communicate directly with her any longer and any questions she has will have to come from the purchasing contact (granted you’ll need your employer’s buy in for that one).

    7. Policy Wonk*

      I think you’ve got it right, only thing I could suggest is get a few more people to cc: on your regular e-mails. Purchasing is likely not the right POC for the statements, but could possibly give you the contact info of someone who is – maybe someone responsible for account management.

      (Must admit, I thought of you during the brief dockworkers’ strike – and hoped everything was OK.)

      1. Tradd*

        Thank you! Things were pretty much OK. Just a bunch of delayed vessels and we’re still dealing with some containers that carrier MSC (aka Maybe Ship Come :) ) just dropped in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, about a week ago. Containers were supposed to go to Port Everglades, FL! Halifax is not a normal transship point. Containers could sit there a MONTH! It’s not a large port and totally overwhelmed. We have a lot of stuff via Canadian ports that then rails into the US. Vancouver dock workers maybe going on strike and the Montreal dockworkers have been refusing OT, so sort of a work stoppage. The US east/gulf coast dock workers’ current contract was extended to Jan 15th. They got the pay raise they wanted to, but automation is a sticky issue. Waiting to see if there will be another walkout in January or if a new contract will happen. Also have had a few containers fall off ships going around the Cape of Good Hope (southern tip of Africa) due to rough weather (ships have been diverted from the Red Sea/Suez Canal since late December due to regional unrest and commercial shipping being shot at). The customers had cargo insurance, so they’re not out anything. Never boring!

  11. Rae*

    How do teenagers get jobs these days? Neither teen or I have had luck looking online. I’m tempted to send him to our downtown area and have him ask for applications if they’re hiring. But its a little “back in my day”. Is there something I’m missing?

    1. Bookworm*

      Even fast food places and such seem to want online applications only from what I see on their store window signs. What does your son want to do? Fast food, Target, etc.? I would simply keep your eyes open for signs places are hiring. Would your son be willing to start doing something on his own? Such as running errands for seniors, helping clean out garages, basements, that sort of thing? I know several teens who are doing quite well on their own.

      1. Bookworm*

        If he decides to strike out on his own, have him get a Facebook account and then post on your neighborhood/city group. Do up a flyer. That’s what the friends’ sons have done. One friend’s teenaged daughter took a Red Cross babysitting class. Did a FB account, posted on the local FB groups, and she is doing very excellent. She didn’t want to work fast food or retail.

        1. Rae*

          Having him create his own FB account is a good idea. He’d like to do tutoring and babysitting, but I don’t want an extra job for me in managing his jobs.

          1. Bookworm*

            I hate to say this, but people seem to be prejudiced around males doing babysitting from everything I read and hear from friends.

          2. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

            I’ll post the link in a separate comment, but I’ve been a tutor for several years off an on through an online platform – you can tutor in a TON of subjects, both in person and entirely virtual, whichever you choose. I stick with math and accounting.

            1. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

              Wyzant (wyzant.com) is the tutoring site I was referring to in my previous comment!

          3. Hazel*

            For tutoring, he could let his high school guidance department know what he can tutor. They used to put students in touch with families needing a tutor.

          4. Great Frogs of Literature*

            If that’s what he’s interested in, he could also consider reaching out to any local homeschool groups and offering himself as an exam proctor. I don’t know if it’s the same where you are, but 10-15 years ago, the area I was living in required homeschool students to take certain standardized tests, and they needed to be proctored by someone who was not a relative. It’s not thrilling work, but it’s mostly “read the instructions and walk the kid through filling out their name etc, and then sit around for a hour or three and make sure they’re doing the exam and not on their phone or whatever.” The hardest part is if the kid is nervous and you need to talk them down a bit before they start.

            Definitely HE should track the jobs, though, not you.

          5. Jen*

            flyers, craigslist, facebook, look for tutoring websites that link people up and take a cut.

            Tutoring jobs always seemed easy to get if your prices are reasonable

    2. blueberry smoothie*

      Mine got jobs with job-ads posted in store/cafe windows. Otherwise, for retail, I’d suggest trying to speak with the manager. Although my kid didn’t *need* to do it for a cafe job, she took an online food-safety course (not required for cafe work, but required if you’re going to be a cook for example).

    3. Alex*

      That is still often how retail and foot service, etc. jobs hire. I see a lot of places with “we’re hiring!” and a table of applications.

      1. The Rural Juror*

        Just let the son know NOT to go during busy hours. I always went at like 2pm for places that were open at both lunch and dinner or right when their doors opened for places only open for dinner. It helps if there’s a manager around when you ask for an application but sometimes they’re busy elsewhere.

      2. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

        All the retail and food service jobs here will just point them back to the website .

        1. Goldfeesh*

          The restaurant I work for technically has a corporate website but any hiring is just done by coming in, picking up an application, and talking to the owner. It depends on where you are.

    4. Banana and an apple*

      I’m a teenager (yay)
      1. Go ahead and stomp the pavement. For jobs requiring little experience, sometimes it’s just about the people who show up. I know a hiring manager who said that she has 200 resumes in her inbox, and the people who show up are the people she looks closer at.
      2. Check indeed and zip recruiter. They’re online job boards and they do have postings for teenagers or no experience needed jobs.
      3. Check the blog for cover letter and resume advice! I wrote a smashing cover letter (that’s been complimented by multiple employers if I may add) all thanks to Alison. <3
      4. Don’t get discouraged! I’ve been searching for a new job for about 4 months now, and got 3 interviews. And not for lack of applying. I’ve probably applied over 50 times. The right job is out there, but it might take a hot minute.

    5. Glazed Donut*

      Not sure about where you are, but my local places usually post on Instagram or Facebook when they’re hiring – could be worth a shot to check out social media or DM a local place to ask.

    6. spcepickle*

      The teens I know are working summers mostly at summer camps. They should start posting their positions after Christmas I think.
      Also for real – ask your local library. Librarians know so many things about the community, they can often make connections to different people and areas. Also one year my teen cousin got a job at the library swapping all the bar codes on books for RFID tags.

    7. Seashell*

      If going to another nearby town is an option, you might want to try to putting in different locations on sites like monster.com. Sometimes just changing up the search a little yields different results.

      I have seen people ask on local Facebook groups about who is hiring teens, and also that’s a good place to look if your kid would want a more casual job like babysitting, dog walking, etc.

    8. Paint N Drip*

      Lots of the big companies (retail, fast food) have huge hiring databases on their websites, and probably don’t post those listings out on other boards – so go to the Target/TacoBell/etc. website regularly and check on those listings. If there are prominent franchisees in the area (like in my town, all the McDonalds are owned by one group and all the Dairy Queens owned by another) they may have their own websites to check as well.
      Depends on your community, but we have small local papers where small businesses or individuals will post jobs that are typically one-off, seasonal, or very part time. If your teen has skills they want to OFFER, you could try posting on NextDoor (either a status-type conversation post or on the map as a ‘service provider’ or whatever they call it) or another local board. Again depends on your locale, but in my area there are often physical cork boards inside/outside of general stores, co-ops, lunch spots, or similar :)

    9. Meep*

      Not a teenager, but I know someone who only works retail (he didn’t go to college or a trade school). Apply through major chain’s website for any available store near by and do the whole pound the pavement for local places.

      Also, check his resume and use Alison’s articles for how to do it. People usually do not think about it mattering for minimum wage positions, but as my acquaintance mentioned above, it apparently does. He had an absolute moron (and I mean it since the idiot is my BIL) help him with his resume and was getting 0 feedback despite working retail for nearly 15 years. As soon as he switched back to his old resume, he was finally getting calls again almost instantly.

      What I would give to see how badly that new resume was formatted…

    10. Turingtested*

      I managed a restaurant that was many teens’ first job. Restaurants and retail are the one environment where a little gumption still works. Applying in person is appropriate.

    11. Clisby*

      I suspect that depends a lot on where you live and what kind of job the teenager is looking for. I live in Charleston, SC.

      This is a tourism-centric economy, and it seems like everybody’s always hiring, so the advice to go downtown in person, walk down the street, stop in, and hand over a resume/fill out an application is perfect for food/beverage and local retailers.

      If applying for a grocery store job, major retailer like Costco or Target, hotel chain, online is probably better.

    12. Ally McBeal*

      My local supermarkets have “we’re hiring” stands right inside the entrance with QR codes and small flyers with the different ways they can submit an application. But your kid’s high school might have some good leads.

    13. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      Online has been the only way my kids have found jobs, but it helps to know who is hiring from their friends.

    14. Hyaline*

      Leverage your network! You never know whose neighbor owns a franchise or whose sister manages a restaurant and might be able to pass on a tip–and put in a good word. For some managers leery of hiring teens this can get them in the door where they might not have had much chance otherwise.

      1. Ama*

        Yes even back in the 90s when I was a teen most of my teen jobs I got through adults I knew — I got babysitting jobs through family friends and my parents’ coworkers, I taught dance classes through my dance school because the teachers knew me, even my first real office job as a temp I got because my friend’s older sister was the temp coordinator at a big corporate employer in my home town. Adults who either know the parent or have seen a teen grow up are a lot more likely to believe a teen is capable of being a good hire.

    15. RagingADHD*

      Our high school keeps a list of places that have a good track record of hiring students, age minimums, whether you need your driver’s license / own transportation, etc. If your school doesn’t post it on the website or newsletter, he could ask the guidance office if they have anything like that.

    16. Unkempt Flatware*

      Most of my grocery stores and the like have signs saying there are daily interviews. I’d start there!

    17. Global Cat Herder*

      Around here, anything owned by a chain has an online application, but the locally-owned places still have in-person applications. My kids got their first jobs walking into shops and asking if they were taking applications.

    18. Anonynonyhi*

      my son found his job this year on Indeed. All the local restaurants advertised and took applications through Indeed. he didn’t talk to the restaurants till they texted him for interviews.

    19. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      I see a lot of retail and food service places with “text this number to apply” or “scan this QR code to apply” signs. So “send him to the downtown area” may be right, but with “look for who has signs and how they want you to apply”.

    20. Generic Name*

      My son got a summer job as a dishwasher by walking into a small mom and pop restaurant he liked and filling out a paper application.

    21. retired*

      I’m 80+ years old. I use local facebook to find people to take me places, pick up things, help me with routine household stuff…pay about $30 (or more an hour). I would love the help of a teenager.

  12. mr.mathmadz*

    I have a colleague who profusely thanks me for doing routine parts of my job and it’s driving me nuts- any advice?

    Imagine like I’m a receptionist who answers the phone as a routine part of work, and Colleague is one step above me at the org, and whenever we collaborate on special projects Colleague comes over to check in on me that I’m ok to answer the phones for them and then when the phone rings makes it a special point to very intently and earnestly be like “Thank you so much, I know we ask a lot of you, so this is very *appreciated*, let me know if answering the next call is a problem, I know it’s a big ask”. When, in reality, that’s my whole job!

    I know this person has a lot of worry over social interactions and is just very effusive in general, so this behavior is about them and not me, but it feels condescending to me. It makes me feel like they think I need to be coached and babied on very mundane and basic job tasks I would do without any prompting or praise. I know that’s not their intent though, I think they just worry a lot about not demonstrating appreciation enough.

    I did tell them directly there’s no need to thank me for basic job tasks, and I think that stressed them out a bit. They keep doing it though, and I suspect it’s just automatic for them and the simpler solution would be for me to be less bothered by it.

    Any advice on being less bothered? Or better means of asking them not to? Or reality checks if I’m insane to find this annoying?

    1. TheGirlintheAfternoon*

      This drives me up a wall for much the same reasons that you articulate. The best luck I’ve had was to mentally reframe it as a gift to THEM to not make a big deal out of it – just to say cheerfully “That’s what I’m here for!” In other words, find your scripted response to their script; acting like it didn’t bother me eventually did make it bother me a lot less.

    2. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      “No need to thank me, just doing my job” delivered with a smile and a friendly tone. Worth a try. Like you said, this is way more about them than it is about you, but they might feel reassured enough by a response like that to stop feeling the need to lay it on so thick.

      1. mr.mathmadz*

        I did try that at first, and they just doubled down, saying something like “well we really appreciate what you do”

        1. ecnaseener*

          That’s fine if they do! Like you said, they’re probably going to keep saying things like this no matter what you do, so just try to think nothing of it and let the conversation end. Smile and turn back to your work, or say something like “well, let me know if you need anything else! Gotta get back to it.”

    3. Paint N Drip*

      If you can handle being the bigger person, you gotta do so – that means you graciously accept their annoying over-flattery (I thought line recommended by TheGirlintheAfternoon was good) and let it go. Yes, probably every time.
      You don’t want to get into the tango of trying to get them to lighten up, it WILL only increase their anxiety (they think ‘noooo you don’t understand HOW MUCH I value you!!! I must say it better so you get it’) and involve you dancing through more layers of thanks (source: lifetime of dealing with anxious family members)

    4. Ostrich Herder*

      In my experience, the main reason people do this is that they’re overly worried about coming across as rude, or demanding, or entitled, or ungrateful, or whatever other “bad” thing you can imagine. And they’re not bad! They’re good! They have to be! And they need everyone around them to think so, too, as reassurance.

      To be clear, they shouldn’t put the burden of their self-image on you, but they do. Knowing that it’s about them, and their insecurity, and a desire to be seen as kind, might be enough to help make it easier to ignore. You might also just kind of privately roll your eyes about how hard it’s backfiring.

      If you want them to cut it out, there’s no amount of reassurance that’s going to silence those worries – you’re likely to have to cut yourself off as a source of identity-buidling. Your tone can do a lot of heavy lifting here. Sounding vaguely confused might be helpful – if you can get them to realize how condescending they’re coming across, that tendency to secure their self-image should work in your favor, as they won’t want to come across that way, either. You’ve told them, sure, but if they figure it out for themselves, it’s often a lot more effective.

      Either way, if you’ve been reassuring them on some level and stop or cut back, expect a little “extinction burst” where they get MORE effusive for a while, to try to get that reassurance back.

      (I am a version of your co-worker in recovery, if it’s not clear!)

    5. MsM*

      I think I’ve been your colleague. For what it’s worth, my effusive praise stemmed from the fact I hated answering the phones when it was part of my job, and so I am really grateful that there’s someone else to do it because I’m sure there are other tasks that make better use of their talents that they’d rather be doing.

      1. mr.mathmadz*

        You might be helping me unlock some of my frustration, because see I *like* answering the phones, I’m really *good* at answering the phones, and I feel happy doing this work, work that sometimes others look down on or fail to see the complexities of.

        Colleague does the same type of work but clearly doesn’t have the same affinity or skill for it, but also, I sense, feels a lot of pride at their position within the org & it’s meaningful to them to be a step above the level I’m at (not at me personally, just generally proud).

        I think maybe some of what’s bugging me about the thanking is it feels like Colleague is not seeing my skills, talents, and interest in this work, and instead is like “I would hate doing this, thank god I am beyond this now, gosh I’m so sorry for you, I hope you don’t resent that I don’t have to do this as much anymore”

        1. MsM*

          Then yeah, I think it might be worth spelling out for them that you genuinely love doing this, and so it’s really not a big deal. They may still be completely boggled, but at least you’ll have tried.

        2. Tea Time*

          Ah, in that case I wonder if you could neutralize this behavior with a reply like, “It’s really fun, thank YOU!” or “I really enjoy doing it, thanks for the opportunity!”. They might fear looking silly overperforming their gratitude after you’ve said it makes your day, and stop.

    6. Quinalla*

      I understand why it is annoying. I would try to reframe it as their anxiety talking and not that they are being condescending. That will probably make it less annoying for you. I’d also come up with a short response when they thank you that you say every time. Make the interaction a little boring. Something like “You’re welcome!” “Anytime!” “I’m here all week!” or one of the other suggestions folks’ posted. I recommend something that doesn’t really invite further conversation, a closer if you will :)

    7. ThankYou*

      Society in general seems to want you to thank people for doing their job and it can become a habit you overdo. For example, I used to find it extremely odd to thank bus drivers as you exit a bus because it’s their job to drive you, but now I do it too because it’s more-or-less expected and I have to ride the bus regularly so I don’t want to be the one the driver doesn’t like and therefore subtly treats differently (pulling away as I arrive at a stop instead of waiting, etc).

      They may have trained in an automatic thank you for because there are no sensible rules for when/when not to thank.

  13. Stephanos*

    Here’s a small potatoes question. When I work in the office, I usually bring a lunch from home, and, since I usually have a small breakfast, I start getting hungry around 11:30 my time. Sometimes my boss spontaneously decides to take some of the in-office staff to lunch – except when he comes around to ask at 12:30 or so I’ve already eaten and I have to decline. (I have no need/desire for a second meal and it would feel pretty awkward to just sit at a table and drink water while everyone else eats.) But I worry I’m missing out on face time with my boss/other colleagues that I wouldn’t get otherwise. Is this a ‘roll with it on occasion’ situation or is this something you would try to avoid?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Have you tried to eat a small snack at 11:30 on the days the boss is in, so you’d be able to postpone your lunch to 12:30 in the event that he does take you to lunch?

      1. Stephanos*

        Unfortunately his schedule is pretty varied with lots of travel and isn’t track in terms of in/out of office on his calendar. You’re onto something with the snack idea though.

    2. A Book about Metals*

      I would probably join your colleagues anyway, even if you’ve already eaten lunch. It wouldn’t be awkward (for me at least) to just drink water or coffee/tea etc.

    3. Time for Tea*

      Do you have the sort of relationship with him where you could explain that to him, that you eat early, and just ask if it would be possible for him to give you (all) an earlier heads up?

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Good option!
        OP, if I were you I’d be valuing the face time much more than the lunch, so would find a way to make that happen regardless of the specifics of meals/hunger (although if the optics or gossip in your office are such that NOT eating while out to lunch or joining/eating a “second lunch” is going to be weirder than the positives of the team building and face time with your boss, you’ll need to do that math. I think that’s probably a rare situation)

    5. Tech Industry Refugee*

      Options:

      1) Eat more protein at breakfast (like 30-40g) – you won’t be hungry. If it’s mostly carbs, it’s not going to keep you sated for long. Or, bring a little mid-morning snack to hold you over.

      2 ) Join the lunch and split an app with your hungriest coworkers. Nobody will care if you just pick.

      3 ) Get over the awkwardness of joining and not eating. It isn’t that deep, nobody cares. Just say you already ate but still wanted to spend time with the team.

      1. Ostrich Herder*

        2 was what I was going to recommend! If you want the facetime and teambuilding, and your boss’s schedule is varied enough that predicting when he’ll treat you to lunch isn’t possible, getting comfortable with going after you’ve eaten is probably your best path forward. I’d order a drink/coffee and have an appetizer as a meal, making sure to ask the server to bring it out at the same time as everyone else’s food. Then snack a little, slowly, so you’re not stuck sitting there with an empty plate, and pawn the rest off on co-workers. You may eventually get comfortable ordering nothing at all, but this seems like a good middle ground.

    6. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

      I’m wondering why he waits to ask at 12;30 pm. Don’t some of his employees go out at noon? I wouldn’t like it if I were one of his employees who went out at noon and came back to work and eventually found out that oh, gee, I missed out on a free lunch with the boss because I went out at noon. Is he waiting that long to ask people as a way of not taking EVERYONE to lunch? Is he waiting until certain people go out to lunch and THEN asking the others if they want to go out?

      2. JustMyImagination*

        Some people eat lunch later? My husband doesn’t eat lunch until 1 during the week or sometimes even 2 on the weekends.

    7. WestSideStory*

      Bring a snack for mid-morning or have a bigger breakfast so you can eat lunch at whatever seems to be the main time that others in your org eat lunch.

      My hubs keeps a stash of power bars in his desk drawer as his schedule, like your boss’s, is variable through the day. Also handy if you every have to stay late.

      Face time is valuable, and declining to participate in group lunches will hurt you.

    8. Hyaline*

      I’d go with a midmorning snack, somewhere in the 10-11 range, and then shift eating lunch later, if this is happening often enough to cause issues. Might help with getting extra protein or fruits and veggies in your diet, too, if that’s a goal! And having a midmorning mini-break can be a good reset on tasks or reorienting your workflow if you game it right.

    9. Cheap ass rolling with it*

      You could also try ordering a side salad with no protein and dressing on the side. Choose a low-calorie dressing. That should be healthy and have few calories.

  14. Camellia*

    In honor of Halloween, what’s the creepiest thing your boss ever did in your presence?

    Here’s mine:

    When you went into her office, she always had you close the door. Makes sense; it signals to everyone that she is busy and not to be disturbed. One day when I was in her office, during our conversation (sorry, don’t remember many details of the convo, I was too rattled later), while talking to me and MAINTAINING EYE CONTACT, she got up, walked around her desk (and me) to the door behind me and just casually locked it. Um…wtf?? She then, never breaking eye contact and continuing to talk, walked back around to her desk and sat down. After she talked for another couple of minutes, she “burst into tears” and covered her eyes with her hands. I don’t remember that she was talking about anything terribly tragic or upsetting that would explain this reaction and I didn’t see any actual tears, but I said something like, “Oh, I’ll come back later” and started to stand up. At which point she peeked at me through her fingers and said, rather forcefully, “CAN I JUST HAVE MY MOMENT!?!?!”. I froze, and she continued ‘having her moment’. While still talking. A minute later she dropped her hands down from her face – and continued talking. Then, again while MAINTAINING EYE CONTACT and STILL TALKING, she opened her desk drawer, took out a bottle of liquid foundation, opened it, put her finger over the top and tilted the bottle to get foundation on her fingertip, then rubbed the foundation under both eyes. Have I mentioned that she kept talking and never broke eye contact this whole time? A few minutes later I managed to escape, unlocking the door to do so, rattled to my core.

    I still have no idea why she did this. I was a contractor at the time, not an employee, and she was a director, quite far into her career, so I never discussed it with anyone else. Thankfully, a few months later she “moved on to other opportunities”.

    3. juliebulie*

      I got nothin’. I wouldn’t know how to react, but I think your instinct to leave was a good one!

    4. Paint N Drip*

      This is so uncomfortable in ways I cannot fully clarify even to myself… what a bizarre performance!!
      The creepiest moment with any boss is only creepy through the lens of other workplaces and other interactions with men, I didn’t find it creepy and he didn’t intend it to be creepy. I was working for a chiropractor and he asked if I used to be a dancer… wasn’t really a question, becuase he could tell. The expected delivery of that line would have me considering throwing elbows, but he was just doing his job lol

    5. RagingADHD*

      I think your quite natural reaction of getting up and then standing quite awkwardly at the door probably spared you from repeat performances. If you had tried to comfort her or engaged with her little scene, she would have called on your again and again as a good audience.

      She probably picked you because she was looking for a new person to fill that role. Congratulations on failing the test!

    6. Cedrus Libani*

      I spent the Great Recession processing surgical waste for use in medical research. Among other things, we got leftovers from cancer debulking surgeries, sometimes by the bucket-load. One day, my boss came over, a bit teary-eyed…she’d gotten a bucket that contained a dear friend, and she was having feelings about it, could I please handle this one for her? Of course I did. Wasn’t creepy in context, but I’m desensitized.

      Also not creepy, but only in context: the boss trying desperately to give the safety talk re: Zika virus, which you need to stay away from if you might be early-stage pregnant, without saying anything HR-worthy regarding his suspicions that I, as a mid-20s woman, might be at particular risk. It was hilarious, but I’m a blunt instrument, so… “Don’t worry boss, I’ve got an IUD!” “Oh thank God.”

    7. Ama*

      Not exactly “done in front of me,” but I lost a ton of respect for a former boss after we learned the true story behind one of our former VIP advisors (nonprofit) leaving his academic job and moving to industry (he had literally been stealing research from his junior employees) and she continued not only to allow him to participate in our org’s activities (albeit in the limited capacity we allowed to any industry person), but I realized that she had recommended him to me as a speaker for a program for early career researchers at point where she knew the true story and I didn’t.

      I had actually never liked this person because he had a pattern of agreeing to help with activities and then canceling at the last minute; even before I knew the whole story her insistence on recommending him for things confused me and after I knew the whole story it flat out infuriated me. (And for the record I don’t think at all they had any kind of personal relationship — I have come to realize that boss loved anyone who told her what she wanted to hear, and that guy happened to be really good at that game. But I would have thought she would have at least had enough sense to stop recommending him for things.)

    8. Unkempt Flatware*

      Holy Mary mother of Glob…..I wouldn’t have been able to stay! I would have probably even insisted we don’t meet again until I felt safe that she won’t start up again! Ahhhh this has me all verklempt!

    9. bay scamp*

      Luckily I have a different boss than this I guess, but the supervisor of most of the folks in my building was delighted upon finding a dead bat last summer, and put it on many people’s desks in turn in order to scare them. After he did that for awhile, he walked around stroking the dead creature and asking other people (including me) if they wanted to pet it. He’s a little older than me, but I was dumbfounded that he’d apparently had no lessons about how people get rabies….

        1. bay scamp*

          I had actually liked and respected the man quite a bit before this incident, so it was really disappointing. I just try to give him a wide berth these days.

  15. Paint N Drip*

    I know there are many fellow readers who are in academia. Does anyone have any advice on the interview process? Is there anything I should be specifically asking about that academia is notoriously bad/good at?
    I’m aware of the benefits and pay for this job. I’m coming from a super small business that is relatively flexible but has no benefits, and this job would be a pivot to my current job (although aligns really well with my degree and other skills)

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Can you give us some more context? Is this prospective job in administration, research, instruction, faculty support, etc?

    2. blueberry smoothie*

      Are you applying for a tenure-track uni job? Those interviews are normally 2-3 days, with a public lecture on research, maybe teaching a class and a lot of 1-1 interviews. I’d say keep high-sugar snacks in your backpack/briefcase/purse. Your blood sugar is going to tank at some point in that process, and you need to be on your toes. You may not be able to negociate salary, but you can negociate lab space, incoming faculty grant etc. I’d also try to negociate teaching classes till you get tenure. (one way to tank your ability to get tenure is by requiring you to teach 3 different classes every year, with no repeats. Prep for that is brutal, and you’d have no time for research. I’d try saying after your first year, no more than one new class per semester).

    3. Leaving academia*

      What part of academia? I’ve interviewed for professor positions, but that is going to be pretty different from academic support or administrative staff or administrators. The only things I can think that would be broadly applicable is public universities in the US, and to a lesser extent private universities, tend to have pretty good benefits. Public university employees are state employees, but I’ve found that is mostly relevant to benefits, holidays, and required trainings. Another difference from a super small business is even a small college is a fairly large organization.

      Some of the lack of structure/hierarchy and other business standards (such as keeping Outlook calendar up-to-date for meetings) aren’t as prevalent in departments that primarily support other departments or students. For example, I’ve been a student and a postdoc in very different, but similarly sized large academic departments. Think one subject department that is the size of a small college. Both departments had at least one HR person, business office contact (one had it’s own business office), academic advisors, and front office staff. All of those people would need to deal with professors (and students) being bad about responding or keeping track of timelines, which is just accepted more than it should be. Similar roles in a university or college wide office might be dealing more with other administration/staff.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’m guessing you’re applying for a staff position rather than faculty. Be warned that in academia, hiring can move very slowly. But it’s likely that they will want things to be wrapped up before winter break (which not all universities have, but many/most do).

      1. Paint N Drip*

        Yes this would be staff, administrative-adjacent not faculty. I can handle a timeline before winter break, I’ve been on the hunt since summer

        1. anonymous anteater*

          I would ask how the position is funded, and about typical rhythm of the work, what are the busiest times in the year.

    5. Insert Pun Here*

      I work in higher ed in a staff capacity in a non academic department. Here are some questions I’d ask:
      – who does this department report up to? President/provost/university librarian/etc?
      – how is this department’s relationship with the institution overall? Are there particular sticking points or areas of disagreement?
      – (if not immediately obvious—skip this if you’re applying to work for like, the chemistry department) how much contact does this department have with professors/teaching staff? (If you are not in a teaching/research type function, less is better)
      – how many hours a week do people typically work? Is overtime planned? Seasonal? As-needed? How does this department handle comp time?
      – what is the average tenure/length of service for staff in this department? (Very low and very high numbers are not good.)
      – how does this department determine pay raises, and how often are they given?

      Keep in mind that universities are typically VERY siloed — so if you have a pal in (eg) the registrar’s office, their experience of their workplace will be totally different than yours in (eg) University Communications. Benefits and stuff will be the same but everything else is highly variable.

        1. Attic Wife*

          I am also a staff member in higher-ed, I recommend asking about staff onboarding and training. In my experience, this is an area that is sadly lacking, I have had to figure things out myself a few times. I also recommend asking about or researching staff representation outside of their departments. Is there a staff senate, committee assignments, etc. I love higher ed. Like all industries, there is always room for improvement and it has it’s quirks but I have found that for me it has been a place for me to grow professionally and personally. Best of luck!

      3. Mimmy*

        I’ve been trying to get into higher ed and have heard that it can be siloed. What exactly does that mean? Does it mean that departments don’t collaborate?

        1. anon for this*

          They’re often vast organisations with many academics often acting like individual contributors. While many departments do similar things (an English Department and a Chemistry Department are both concerned with teaching students and researching etc), they’re not doing the same thing. And the academics aren’t interchangeable, so they don’t move inside the institution (but they do frequently move to other institutions). In research it can be even more different, because what you’re delivering might be to a funder and not the institution, as a result the line of management can be functionally more external than internal. And most of the management positions in higher ed are then held by academics (and often without any management training).

          This means you can sort of end up with cultural pockets. While an organisation might work a certain way overall, what is practised day to day in departments and research centres might be quite different. An admin might be having a lovely time in the English Department, and another admin, in the same role/job title, might be having a terrible time in the Chemistry department (or vice versa!). There might be well known nice places to work, and well known terrible places to work, and everything in between all in the same institution. The “rules” may be differently enforced in different sections.

          I’ve experience profoundly different day-to-day experiences working in the same institution, in terms of flexibility, remote working, monitoring, responsibility, who gets invited to what meetings. One big difference can be whether admin staff are considered equal contributors or not!

    6. Leaving academia*

      The other thing I thought of that would be relevant to in person interviews and potentially the actual job: a lot of older buildings with potentially very wonky HVAC. Obviously this can vary a lot across the same campus, and some older buildings are completely fine, but temperature varying wildly between rooms and older building pests could be an issue. If the building hasn’t been built or renovated in the past 30 years, it probably isn’t ADA compliant, although this is becoming far less common than the HVAC issues (which can persist post renovation).

    7. Berry*

      Unless the university is a major institution like Harvard, Yale, UCLA, etc., I would ask, or try to find out, about the financial and enrollment health of the university. There are small (and some not so small) colleges closing almost every day due to financial and enrollment pressures. How is this college/university differentiating itself in the market? Is their enrollment trending up or down? What are their plans for dealing with the demographic cliff (in case you’re not familiar, this is the name given to the sharp decrease in 18-year-old high school graduates that will happen starting in 2026 due to people having fewer or no children during the financial crisis of 2008/2009). Are they drawing on their endowment? Do they have plans to start new programs? Are those programs unique? Are they likely to have a return on investment? For example, many colleges like the idea of starting a pharmacy program because of the money those programs bring in. But, the market is currently (over)saturated with pharmacy schools, and students are less and less interested in this degree. I don’t know how many answers you’ll get, because the people interviewing may consider this privileged internal information, but try to find out as much as you can.

  16. AnonyMoose*

    US Fed employees, question:
    I started working at an agency and they don’t have any project management software, no one uses anything. It’s all freaking spreadsheets and driving me and my team crazy. I asked our one IT person and they said I could put in a ticket for MS Project but I’ve heard that’s a nightmare. So I’m hoping to find out what others use to ask for something to get approved.
    So what project management system/software are other federal agencies using?

    (and yes I know I could sign up for a free account for my own use with somewhere like Trello but I want one my whole team can use ideally)

      1. A Significant Tree*

        I don’t know if it works for project management as well as some others, but I think Huddle was just approved too. My agency has used it especially for projects where we collaborate with people outside the agency.

        I hate SmartSheets SO MUCH but yeah, we use that one too.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      There are all kinds of software available for use by the government – I went to a convention looking for a particular software package 20+ years ago, and still get calls from vendors trying to sell me their latest government solution. I would start with your IT people, but you can also try the GSA website to see what is available.

    4. GeorgiaB*

      If you use Teams, Microsoft Planner is built-in and actually does pretty well compared to something like Trello.

  17. Retail Dropout*

    I posted in mid-October about whether an internet issue would torpedo my chances at a company I was interviewing with (https://tinyurl.com/4duzn4up). Safe to say I was proven wrong because I GOT THE JOB!!! Not only is it in my field and my city of choice, but the salary is about $10K above what I was aiming for, and the benefits are amazing as well. I’m so excited for when I start after my graduation this spring!

  18. sos!*

    this is the silliest problem, but would love some advice. i wear my hair up at work almost 100% of the time for a bunch of reasons but most importantly simply because that’s how i like it! however, whenever i have it down, i’ll have multiple coworkers comment on how they love my hair, how i should wear it down more, etc. i’ve tried laughing it off and just thanking them and saying something like “oh, it’s so much easier to manage when it’s up!” hoping this will shut down conversation and … it doesn’t. this happens whenever i have it down (even if just for a moment while putting it back up) and sometimes when it’s up and a coworker comments on how nice it looks down. i don’t know how to get people to stop talking about my hair! i like all these coworkers and they’re all lovely people who think they’re paying me compliments, but it’s driving me crazy! help!

    1. Fish out of water*

      I used to have this problem (I now wear my hair very short)! It might help to reframe these comments not as advice but rather as expressions of envy—more about them than your appearance. If someone came in wearing a shirt you really coveted and you said, “What a beautiful shirt! I’d wear that all the time!” it would perhaps hold less of a mirror up to the shirt-wearer as it holds a mirror to you.

      I cut off my hair partially because I do not have the patience to take care of it in the way it deserves; this could also be a comeback to use. “Oh, I wish I could wear it down more! But I don’t have time to devote to my hair care routine on weekdays!” or even just “I wish I could!” as though your hair is a magic artefact that imposes dire consequences if you don’t wear it up.

      All this said, it is super annoying to have your appearance commented on at work all the time. It would drive me crazy too and I hope it lets up soon.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      As someone in the same boat, with big butt-length Merida hair that also always has at least three unnatural colors in it to boot: Just smile and move on. You don’t need to reply, and asking them to stop will be weird, even if it shouldn’t be.

      1. Everything Bagel*

        I do not have this problem, but this would be my recommendation, too. Just don’t say anything! Just because they made a comment doesn’t mean you need to respond, though you should keep a friendly disposition.

    3. Salty November*

      I don’t have much for advice but you could just be direct but friendly and say “Thanks, I usually just prefer it up!”. I’ve experienced this when I straighten my hair, even though I know it looks good and people are just trying to be nice, if I get asked why I don’t wear it like that more often I really want to say “I used to straighten it every day and damaged it to shit because growing up straight Avril Lavigne hair was what was cool and and it actually started looking bad when I straightened it because it was so unhealthy and 4 years after I stopped using heat all the time, my curl pattern still isn’t the same as it used to be” but I think that’s a bit much.

      1. SodaSodaBanana*

        I have curly hear too and this was my first thought, how people always say this when it’s straight. (Also, lol.)

    4. KitKat*

      I used to get a lot of hair compliments and also now almost always wear it up :)

      I would go with “Thanks!” and a change of subject. You’re really not obligated to respond to the “I wish you would…” part of the interaction whatsoever. Especially especially in the cases where they’re not actually saying it out loud, and just complimenting it in its current state!

    5. DrSalty*

      People notice things that are different and I bet that’s why they keep commenting on it. Anyway, I’d just stop responding when they comment, or give a flat/quick/breezy “thanks” and immediately change the subject.

      1. HonorBox*

        This! And if they give the “you should do that more often” comment, I think a simple “OK” is acknowledgement enough.

        1. GT*

          I also rarely wear my hair down at work. A big part of it for me is that I like to graze on food through the workday and my hairline is such that if my hair isn’t tied, my hair goes right into my face. When people tell me I should wear my hair down more often, I shake my hair so it’s in my face and say something like “but how would I get my daily apple slices in?!” with a goofy look. I realize that’s pretty situation-specific, but it tends to work pretty well for me, especially when fielding those comments from men!

    6. Csethiro Ceredin*

      Same for me!! I don’t have a solution, just solidarity. Short hair doesn’t suit me so ponytail/braid/bun almost everyday.

      Everyone LOSES THEIR MINDS if I wear it down (about twice a year). My boss even once said kindly that I “got away with” wearing it up all the time, meaning to pay me a compliment about looking nice despite the lack of womanly flowing locks, I guess.

      When I get the comments I usually lightly say something like “oh, it drives me batty if it’s in my face.”

    7. LongWavyHairBlues*

      My hair is by far my nicest feature, or was before male pattern baldness kicked in and made it much thinner, brittle, and prone to falling out – this despite being female. Like you I rarely wore it down. On the rare occasions when I did I got tons of compliments, some not very complimentary to my every day look. While I mostly took it in stride, it definitely got tiring, especially the “you should wear it down more often” comments which made me want to scream and ask if they would be willing to spend hours a day brushing out the resulting knots I’d get if I wore it down outside (I always took it down after arrival at a party or the like, brushed it out in the restroom or lounge, then did the reverse before I left).

      No real advice, just a you’re not alone and I feel your pain comment.

    8. Quinalla*

      It’s not silly honestly. My Dad of all people ALWAYS commented when my hair would get long on how nice it looked long and how I should grow it out more and yadda yadda. It all felt very sexist and honestly was something that was the cherry on top of cutting it short. So now I intentionally try and get a hair cut right before I visit every time so it is as short as possible, it’s my little petty thing to do LOL. So I just want to say, I GET IT!

      I would recommend just saying “Thanks!” or smiling and changing the subject as other have said.

    9. Anon for this*

      I also used to have this problem. While I think it’s likely hair envy, the repeat can be irritating.
      Response can vary depending on who is saying this, but given the repetition you might want to say something like – do you know you say that every time I wear my hair down? It’s getting old.

      And if it continues, or there is a creepy vibe just tell the person to stop commenting on your appearance.

  19. Unicorn Cupcakes*

    I’m currently a digital project manager working at a marketing agency focused on creating websites. I’ve been here for a few years and every day I just find that agency life is not for me. Before this, I worked in a similar role, but as a full-time employee of one company where I could just focus on the company’s goals and not split my time on different accounts. 
    I am really unhappy in this job to the point where I think I want to leave project management altogether, but I’m not sure what I would be qualified to pivot to. I don’t ever want to work at an agency again because I can’t stand the whole “wE hAvE a CuLtUrE” thing where everyone is expected to want to spend their free time hanging out at the office. I also really don’t want to work in a role that has billable hours again; it is exhausting having to account for every minute of the day and then having to justify having downtime when you’re in between projects.
    So… any suggestions on what other jobs might be suitable for someone with my kind of background? 

    1. noname today*

      Are there not FTE project management roles/jobs you could apply to? Check dice dot com, indeed and zip recruiter.

    2. ferrina*

      Large companies have in-house graphic designer. Heck, I’ve worked at mid-size companies (200-500 people) who have in-house designers. You might have additional marketing duties, but those roles are out there.

    3. Pandas*

      Your skills might translate to Communications or Public Outreach departments in government. There might be some other roles you’re qualified for as well. Government has its own issues but it would solve two of the problems you’ve listed here. There are a lot of hourly employees so it’d be very unusual to find a culture where staff are hanging around the office off the clock, and you wouldn’t have to account for billable hours. I’d check out Government Jobs and see if anything looks transferable for your skills to get some ideas, if you’re interested in local government jobs.

    4. Agency Alumna*

      I spent almost 15 years at an agency, so I feel you. I was so incredibly burned out and miserable at the end.

      I went to Communications in a large corporation and I’m 1000% happier. I would look for project manager roles, project advisor, program manager, etc.

    5. Ally McBeal*

      Just move back in-house. I’m in the same boat – I really dislike agency life but am still learning enough that I’m still here. A company that’s rapidly expanding into new regions or industry verticals might be a good fit, or you could pivot slightly to website maintenance instead of creation.

  20. Dek*

    Kinda vexed over leave for early voting being denied.

    I’d intended to do it this past weekend, but then I had a bit of a family crisis and wasn’t able to. So on Monday I asked my boss if I could leave an hour early on Tuesday (the last day of early voting) so I could go to early voting. She said my request for leave didn’t fall within the Request for Leave Procedure in our Standard of Attendance, but that I could use my lunch period to go vote (there’s no way I could get there and back and vote in the time we have for lunch).

    It just strikes me as…petty? I mean, if I’d waited until the day of and Been Sick or a home maintenance issue or something, it would probably have been ok. But I feel like when I try to request leave, if she can find something within the letter of law that allows her to deny my leave, she will.

    We do get two hours (not docked from our annual leave) on election day itself to vote, so it’s like…instead of me spending an hour of annual leave, I get paid for two hours that I won’t be at work. But I’d have rather taken care of it in advance.

    1. On Fire*

      Ugh, how frustrating! Where I work, we are given an hour, not from our accrued leave, to vote. We can use that on any day of voting, whether for early or Election Day itself. What was your boss’ reasoning for saying it didn’t fit in the procedure — too short notice or something similar?

      1. Dek*

        She did not elaborate. She could have felt that it was too short notice, or it could’ve been because I sent the initial request as part of a weekly email, and not in a separate email with our grandbosses CC’d (although what I’ve usually done for leave is ask her in advance, and then submit the official request when she approves it. And if it was because of that, she could just have said it so I could have submitted it differently, instead of just denying it outright)

        1. Everything Bagel*

          Why don’t you follow up with her or HR to ask what the appropriate method would be for you to request this time off and get it?

          1. Person from the Resume*

            It kind of doesn’t matter now that early voting has ended.

            I would be annoyed like Dek was, but now they’re stuck voting on the day of.

            1. ThatGirl*

              Some places still have early voting this weekend, but you are right that this is the last weekday in most cases.

          2. Dek*

            I’m trying to figure out a way to tactfully do that. I can’t follow up with her because she gets mad when I question her decisions (or when she thinks I do). If I go to HR, I think she’d be upset that I went “over her head” about it. But I do at least want some clarification.

    2. ferrina*

      That’s so frustrating!

      Sometimes bosses try to avoid anything that can be construed as political (and simply voting without mentioning candidates is political for some people, I guess). It’s not a great policy, but if the company doesn’t provide guidance, it can leave managers in a weird spot where some of them will make a bad call.
      Not much to be done, but next year, maybe ask HR to provide an official policy in early October? Not as an accusation, but as a clarification and information sharing. It would probably help out a lot of people.

    3. Mad Harry Crewe*

      I mean, I think the key here is:
      But I feel like when I try to request leave, if she can find something within the letter of law that allows her to deny my leave, she will.

      It’s not about voting or early voting or when you asked, it’s that she looks for reasons to deny you leave. That sucks.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        THIS is the problem to complain about.

        Although “letter of the law” probably makes it harder to have a valid complaint listened to.

    4. Busy Middle Manager*

      This seems so strict, is there more to the story? Do you work at a school or on the floor of the stock exchange or something that is very butt-in-seat?

      1. Dek*

        Nope, not a bit. And I’m currently working on a busywork sort of project until something more important comes in. The only thing I can think is that I only asked the day before instead of two business days in advance.

    6. HonorBox*

      Seems like something worth clarifying because with expansion of early voting, perhaps HR can provide an update to the policy. If you get two hours on election day, can that just be changed to two hours to vote? Maybe point out in that discussion that if everyone followed the letter of the law, there could be quite a bit of absence on election day itself, so expanding it to include early voting would allow for those absences to be extended over a longer period of time.

    7. Wilbur*

      That sucks, I’d try to get the policy amended. Not sure about your state, but Illinois also offers permanent vote by mail. Every election I get my ballot mailed to me a few weeks before election day. Great to feel like I can take my time researching the candidates. It might be worth seeing if your state offers that.

    8. Maggie*

      Do you think it’s her specifically or it’s coming from above? I can tell you in my past life as a manager I would have had to deny it too because MY manager would be asking why I approved something that’s “technically” outside the policy when there’s already policy in place to allow 2 hours for voting.

  21. Jessica Ganschen*

    The last time I was here, I was concerned about getting the High Holy Days off at my new job, but that turned out to be a non-issue, as they set my start date for November 4th. Then, there was a bit of a delay as we sorted out the correct amount of PTO that I would be getting, but that’s also resolved, and I’ll be getting the higher amount! It’s 20 days, which is extremely helpful considering how many holidays I observe, haha. It’s been a rollercoaster and I’m so relieved to be getting off this ride.

  22. Kesnit*

    I used to be a public defender in Jurisdiction A. While I was there, there was a prosecutor, Jane, who had previously practiced in Jurisdiction B (about 30 minutes away), but had to leave when her boyfriend (later fiance), Fergus, became the elected chief prosecutor. While I would not say Jane and I became friends, we had a cordial, friendly relationship. About a 2 years later, Jane suddenly left Jurisdiction A and became a prosecutor elsewhere. Although I don’t know the details, I know it had to do with a bad breakup with Fergus.

    A little over a year ago, I talked to a public defender who worked in Jurisdiction B. She told me that everyone in that PD office who knew where Jane had gone was told explicitly not to tell Fergus where she was. (I know where Jane went because other prosecutors in Jurisdiction A told me.)

    About a month after that conversation, I realized I was burnt out as a public defender and applied for a other jobs in the region. I accepted a job as a prosecutor in Jurisdiction B – working for Fergus. In the year that I have been here, Jane has never come up in conversation in my office. I have seen her name on a few old files, but that’s it. I’m sure there are people who assume that I know her, but it’s never been discussed.

    Every once in a while, Jane comes up on my Facebook as a “person you might know.” (I am still FB friends with a few prosecutors from Jurisdiction A.) Part of me wants to send her a friend request because we did have a good relationship. Part of me is hesitant to do it because I work for the ex that she moved to get away from and I’m sure she knows that. (She is still in contact with prosecutors in Jurisdiction A.)

    Should I send the friend request or not?

    2. Colette*

      I’m leaning to no – you know you’re getting in touch because you like her, not because your boss wants to know where she is, but she doesn’t know that.

      2. Paint N Drip*

        Agreed. Unless there’s a way to reach out to her with a ‘Hey thinking of you, working with you was great and I’d love to catch up. I’m working with Fergus and y’all seem to have a rough history so if you don’t want to connect right now I understand’ (is that even professional? Idk. I always lean towards human-connection more than professional, so that’s what I’d do)

    3. MsM*

      Maybe you could ask one of your other jurisdiction A friends to reach out on your behalf and see if Jane’s interested in connecting?

    4. RagingADHD*

      Sure, send it. Jane is a grown up. She can decide for herself whether or not to engage. And of course, you know better than to take it personally if she opts out.

    5. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

      If you get person you might know notifications about her, she probably gets the same notifications about you. I would let her reach out if she wants.

    6. BigLawEx*

      I’m leaning toward no. If she comes up in suggested friends, the you likely come up in hers and she hasn’t reached out.

  23. Freelance Bass*

    Does anyone have tips for getting songs out of your head? I work in kids media and I encounter some real earworms in my work. There are certain songs I need to listen to multiple times in order to do my work, but dear lord I’ve been hearing them in my sleep.

    2. Ann O'Nemity*

      Flintstones theme song. It works well to get rid of the original earworm but doesn’t stick around itself.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Can you replace the annoying earworm with an earworm that you actually like? Especially something you loved earlier in your life so you get that nostalgia bonus too.

      1. Goldfeesh*

        This is what I do- for some reason Sgt. Pepper is my go to song to get rid of the earworm then I’ll transition to a different song.

    4. On Fire*

      My favorite earworm remover is “Soft kitty, warm kitty” from The Big Bang Theory. Like Ann O’Nemity says about the Flintstones theme, I find that it gets rid of the earworm but doesn’t become one itself.

    5. Snarl Trolley*

      I have no idea if this will work for everyone, but I’m AuDHD and I get everything from songs to license plate numbers to tonal patterns stuck in my head, and my most effective weapon to clear my brain thus far has been to mentally recite pi and try to memorize another few digits of it each time. Repeating the same number pattern over and over in my head + the focus of recalling the new digits usually boots the Kars For Kids song or the siren pattern from a passing ambulance that would otherwise be on an internal loop forever. Good luck!

    6. Shot thru the heart*

      Someone once told me to sing “You give love a bad name” by Bon Jovi out loud and with passion to clear an ear worm. Has worked for me every time, though sometimes I need to sing the parts I know a few times. And the new song doesn’t get stuck. I would LOVE to know if this works for other people.

      1. juliebulie*

        I was gonna try this, but even just thinking about it I already have several portions of that song looping in my head. My ears are extremely wormy. I do have some success when I change to a song that I like, but even then it’s rather annoying.

        1. Shot thru the heart*

          I think part of the magic is the singing it out loud, with volume and passion. Just thinking it doesn’t do the trick.

    8. Jay (no, the other one)*

      A music therapist I work with says the best approach is to sing the song the whole way through. This assumes that the earworm is some small part of the song that’s repeating in your head, which is what usually happens to me. If I force myself to sing through the whole thing it does indeed go away! If I’m alone I sing it out loud. If that would not be appropriate then I recite the whole lyric in my head.

      If it’s the whole song that’s stuck in your head, I realize this won’t work! In that case pivoting away from music to some of the other suggestions would probably be better.

      1. Freelance Bass*

        Fascinating! I’ll definitely try this. I work remotely so my kittens are going to be getting a concert!

    9. Rex Libris*

      A podcast I listened to suggested finding a familiar phrase that’s lyrical, but too short to really stick on “repeat” in your head, and repeating it to yourself until the other one stops. (Their example was “By Mennen” if you’re old enough to remember that ad campaign.)

      1. juliebulie*

        I have had some bad experiences with “Break me off a piece of that Kit-Kat Bar!”. (Sometimes instead of Kit Kat Bar, it’s Fancy Feast. Thank you, Andy Bernard.)

    10. Csethiro Ceredin*

      Personally I watch the Muppets Mahna Mahna clip. It’s super earwormy, but it is a simple song and tends to fade quickly, though YMMV.

    11. Ally McBeal*

      I wonder if getting your body involved in the song would help. Like, pop on HOT-TO-GO! by Chappell Roan and do the dance moves (I love referring to that song as “Gen Z’s version of YMCA”), or pull up an old music video from a pop star/boy band that you learned all the choreography to when you were in middle school. Or even learn a new dance routine?

    12. Pocket Mouse*

      At night, replace it with a song or melody you can fall asleep to. Slow music without lyrics, or where the lyrics are a bit mumbly, is good for this. Think Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata or Dryland by Chris Pureka.

    13. GT*

      I find that there are two things that tend to help me as a musician who runs into this a lot.

      1. Try learning the song absolutely 100% all the way through. Concentrate on it. Sing it until you never mess it up. I’ve found that earworms are usually only fragments of songs or belong to songs I don’t know especially well, so making sure my brain has a handle on the whole pattern makes it easier to let go.

      2. Like some others have suggested, find another song you know absolutely 100% and sing that to yourself. Focus hard and do it the best you can. Playing an instrument also works for this. Your brain can only hold so many things in your attention at one time, so briefly putting all your attention on another piece of music can let you crowd out the earworm.

      1. music nerd*

        With the risk of accidentally setting off more earworms, here is my strategy, a slight variation from some above.

        When possible, I try to find a song that sounds similar in some way. For example, “Toxic” by Brittney Spears is earwormy to me, so I try to replace it with “Hit That” by The Offspring. They both have that fast paced “banging on a piano” type sound.

        Another one is “My Heart Will go On” by Celine Dion which I try to replace with the Whitney Houston version of “I will always love you”. They are both slower power ballads by female singers that have some drawn out words in the lyrics.

        I saw a speaker many years ago, maybe from the NYT? who talked about how many songs have similar musical components. He had a piano and played examples, seamlessly transitioning between many popular songs. I wish there was a video of it, because it was amazing. It was at a work conference over a decade ago and I don’t recall his name. I still remember it and that’s where I got the idea from. The songs I pick aren’t as close musically as the ones he had, but close enough for me.

  24. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

    Last week I asked about whether it made sense for me with management-experience-but-no-IT-experience to follow through on applying to our Epic implementation manager positions as I had been encouraged to, and I did submit applications before the weekend was out… and have been invited to interview next week. So I’m pretty stoked.

    However, aside from the “mgmt-but-not-IT-experience” part, I also haven’t interviewed at all in almost four years, and I haven’t interviewed with people I haven’t already been working with/for since 2015. And a lot of the interview guidance/tips I’m finding are either oriented toward a new workplace – I’ve been working here over ten years – or toward interviewing for an existing position, rather than one that is new, so they don’t have “past success in this position” or similar to reference per se. So if anyone has suggestions on applying to a newly created lane-change-stretch-job at your current employer, I’m all ears.

    Bonus points for tips for folks without official tech experience applying to tech jobs — I do have a demonstrated ability to pick up new systems quickly and then break them down to teach other people how to use them, as well as having led multiple user teams through multiple software implementations from development and system design to workflow design to user training, which I hope are all pluses in my favor, at least.

    1. ferrina*

      Congrats! That’s awesome that you got the interview!

      Treat an interview with your current employer similar to how you would with an external employer. Don’t assume that they know what your current role/department does (they may have a vague idea, but even that might not be correct). Definitely don’t assume that they know what you’ve done.

      Since you’re also interviewing for a newly created position, it helps to 1) have a vision for the role and 2) ask questions to help you refine your vision. It doesn’t help to have a 30/60/90 plan if the KPIs are different than what you had assumed. New roles can also be tricky in that no one knows exactly what they can ask of the new role. If you can provide some strategy on what the scope of the role can be, then some tactical ideas on implementation (again, not a set-in-stone 30/60/90, but more of a roadmap) that will help them understand your approach to the role and even help them refine what they pictured the role as. Some of the questions that you ask will also help them understand what questions they should be asking themselves (many people create new roles without having more than a vague idea of what they want the role to be, so having an external person to help them define it through either questions or suggestions is often appreciated. at the minimum, it shows them that you know how to ask smart questions- an essential skill for both a newly created role and a mangaerial role)

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        For sure! (To clarify, the “current/new employer” part was mostly referencing the part where I would normally ask questions about the org culture etc.)

        I definitely have lots of thoughts on implementations from the user standpoint, and will be making some notes to that effect this weekend. Also some notes on my experience being a manager of people who do a thing without necessarily being an expert on doing the thing myself, and therefore experience with knowing when and how to trust my SMEs but also to educate myself in the process. These are great suggestions, thank you :)

    2. Person from the Resume*

      I’m in IT and I find these extremely IT-related.
      – break new systems down to teach other people how to use them
      – led multiple user teams through multiple software implementations from development and system design to workflow design to user training

      I bet you’re in a good position since you were encouraged to apply.

    3. Karstmama*

      Best luck! I’m trying to position to pivot from nursing to Epic myself and until I get a new job I’ll live vicariously through you.

  25. Well, THAT was awk-weird*

    Had my annual gyno visit yesterday. As I was checking out, the office staff and I started chatting about some books/authors we all commonly liked. (For context, the books/authors we were discussing were thrillers and mysteries.)

    The doc disappeared to his office and returned a minute later, carrying a book. “Y’all like different kinds of books than I do,” he said, and showed me a textbook on venereal diseases. Then proceeded to show me some of the illustrations. Of disease-infected genitalia.

    I don’t consider myself a prude, but I was pretty uncomfortable. I said something like, “Oh, wow” and returned to the other conversation. And he went and got another textbook and showed me more.

    He’s the owner of the practice. This was my third or fourth annual visit; I changed docs a few years ago because the one I adored retired and her replacement was horrible. This is the first time he’s ever done anything like this (although he also told me about a weight loss drug he can prescribe to me).

    I know this isn’t normal, and I’ll definitely be on my guard now. But what would have been an appropriate response?

    1. Freelance Bass*

      The hell??? I would totally change doctors over this. If there’s another gyno you can try next year, do it.

      1. Nonanon*

        Change doctors and report it to the board. It might be the first time he’s done it with YOU, but I wonder what his reaction is if someone does come in with an STD; showing them graphic pictures of their condition is NOT what they need.

      2. Lady Danbury*

        This. The fact that he insisted on showing you pictures of genitalia is a MAJOR red flag for me. Obviously not all male gynos are sexual predators or commit sexual misconduct (and obvs any gyno can be guilty of sexual misconduct), but when people show you who they are, believe them. At best, it was highly inappropriate and shows a troubling lack of judgment.

    2. Frankie Bergstein*

      “There’s a reason I don’t work in medicine… there it is!” then turn your head away?

      Or

      “Doc! Eww!”

      1. Well, THAT was awk-weird*

        That (Doc, EWWW) might have been best. Because of my former job I trained myself (and pride myself) on not showing reactions, but that was probably my downfall here.

    3. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      “I don’t want to see images like that. Thanks for understanding.” No emotion, no apology or softening, just a direct objection. Doctors are just as likely to be socially inept as anyone else – maybe MORE likely. And you’re allowed to be bothered by inappropriate interactions, and to give feedback in the moment.

      He’s not your boss, he’s a service provider, and you have the upper hand in this relationship because you’re free to walk out the door and choose a different provider. Let that inform your decisions.

    4. Jay (no, the other one)*

      Wildy inappropriate and pretty creepy. I’d change docs.

      I’d also report him to someone – even people who own their own practices usually have hospital privileges and all physicians have state licenses. I’m a doc and that’s SERIOUSLY inappropriate.

    5. juliebulie*

      Sounds like he has trouble with boundaries. That’s not great for a doctor. I’d start going to someone else.

    6. JustEm*

      This is very odd. I’m a doctor and have no issues looking at textbooks with genitalia pictures, and am not at all prudish, but would be *very* weirded out by a doctor doing what you described. The only situation in which I would expect a doctor to show me these pictures is if I had concern about a venereal disease. This is enough over the line that I would switch doctors. If he’s willing to cross boundaries in this way, I’d be concerned about what other boundaries he might ignore

    7. HannahS*

      That was wildly inappropriate. I would change doctors, to be honest, even though I myself am a doctor and am not bothered by those kinds of photos. The fact that he felt it was appropriate to intrude on the conversation you were having with that speaks to real lack of judgment and poor boundaries. And probably an inability or lack of care to realize that you were uncomfortable. Not characteristics I’d want in a doctor, especially a gynaecologist.

    8. Another Kristin*

      Some medical professionals have…unusual ideas of appropriate mid-appointment chitter chatter. I used to have an optometrist who would excitedly describe bizarre and gross eye diseases during my annual examination. I would be like, are you saying I have this? and he would reassure me that of course not, he just thought it was neat! Just making conversation apparently

      1. MsM*

        Yeah, I’m getting more clueless than malicious vibes. Still totally okay to complain/switch practices.

    9. Hyaline*

      I mean, I work in academia, so my tolerance for “WTF social awkwardness” is pretty high, and I actually wouldn’t switch over JUST this. However, if you’re not going to be comfortable with this guy going forward, then yes, switch! You don’t have to justify “how bad was this” to decide “this made me feel like I have to *be on my guard* (your words) *with your doctor who you should be able to trust* (my emphasis) so it’s time to switch.”

    10. RagingADHD*

      That’s pretty wierd, but it might be less wierd if the thrillers and mysteries you were discussing were very violent or graphic? Possibly the thinking was “Oh, if we’re talking about decapitation, it’s a gross-out party.”

      I dunno, that’s all I’ve got.

  26. Poppin' in for this*

    I have a question for a friend, who asked me for advice, as I’m a writer/editor. We’re not in the same field so I am at a loss: my friend is an experienced pharmacist and wants to branch out and write for medical/pharm publications. What are some inroads to this niche branch of media? She’s a natural writer but is unpublished. Are there any trade associations? Any help is appreciated!

    1. ferrina*

      Medical writing is tricky, so she may be able to simply apply for a role at an advocacy organization (either medical profession advocacy or patient advocacy). If she’s targeting a smaller non-profit organization (or even a smaller for-profit), her skills might fit some niche job requirements.

      The trick will be proving her writing bona fides. She could consider writing a blog or submitting her own pieces for publication. She’ll need to decide if she wants to pursue academic writing or general consumer writing. Peer-reviewed publications and general media publications have very different writing styles and criteria.

    2. Harlowe*

      She should consider getting certified through RAPS (Regulatory Affairs Professionals Society). The Regulatory Affairs Certification (RAC) is considered a major credential for pharma. There are two RAC designations, (RAC-Drugs) and Medical Devices (RAC-Devices). She would want the former.

      This test is a LOT of work (people study for it for 4-6 months) but having that cert is a major resume boost in the med field.

    3. DrSalty*

      AMWA, EMWA (in Europe), and ISMPP are all great professional societies that can help folks looking for more information about careers in medical writing.

    4. Kvetchy*

      Editor here. Is your friend looking to write for non–peer-reviewed publications? If so, drop a line to editors of such publications asking if they have need of writers. That avenue may lead to be considered a “pharmacist who writes” as opposed to “medical writer with pharma background.” Consider applying to medical writing positions with pharma/device communications agencies.

        1. Kvetchy*

          I would bet the many non–peer-reviewed publications would be very interested in having her contribute. FYI, depending on the publication’s policy, she may not be paid at all, or she may be paid an “honorarium” meant to augment a FT professional salary. Better for her to know that going in, but she can certainly ask editors about compensation in the initial message. Suggest looking at Drug Topics, Pharmacy Times., and US Pharmacist.

      2. Hyaline*

        Was going to say something similar to this–and to add, she should probably poke around and see how the publications she sees herself writing for obtain their articles. In a lot of spaces, it’s the “pitch article to editor” or the “sell written article” mode–but I’m honestly not sure on the niche of pharma trade pubs! (Publications often have some hidden page on their website that will give this info, or there are databases of submission markets out there–that’s out of my depth as I usually don’t write for those markets.)

  27. Wedgie of a Human*

    Hey everyone, I need a gut check. I’m new to a company in a brand new role, so people are still figuring out what I do. We have a group of people, Teacup Specialists (TS), who I am told will “make or break the job.” AKA – don’t piss them off because they could make your job harder. My role is to create trainings for TS reports so eventually, it’ll make TS jobs easier and less stressful (to some extent.)

    But I am new to the company and have no org knowledge, so I have to ask TSs a lot of questions. I try to spread my questions around people, do my own research, ask my boss, etc. but there’s one TS, Todd, who everyone keeps telling me to talk to because he’s the smartest guy with the most institutional knowledge.

    Todd is a grump. He’s overworked and stressed. He seems to really only get along with men, and the rest he just seems exhausted by. I don’t like interacting with Todd very much but I want to get this job done to support the TS role. I’ve talked with him…maybe 6 times since I’ve started in July, because the first time I talked with him to ask him more about his role, he sighed and rolled his eyes and said “I know you’re gonna ask me a bunch of questions aren’t you. I’m tired already.” And now I don’t feel comfortable talking to him.

    So I’ve asked Todd for help, very specific help. Like “I know you’re super busy, so can you review THIS HIGHLIGHTED SECTION and tell me the answer to THIS SPECIFIC QUESTION within the next week, and if you can’t do it, no problem, just keep me posted and I can try to find someone else.” He curtly agreed yes, and then… nothing. I emailed 2x over the week to prompt and to ask hey is there anything I can do to help or let me know if you don’t have capacity. He will respond to other department emails but not mine.

    I’m irritated. This is the second time this has happened and I feel like my answer is “don’t ask Todd.” But when I talk to my boss about it (“is there a best way to communicate with Todd?”), she’s very protective of Todd because of his experience, and says “Well, sometimes you can’t prod him too much. He’ll come around. You might need to chase him down and ask a few times.”

    Heh?? In my mind, that’s not how adults work. I rarely have issues with any other TS, it just happens the one who I KEEP getting told to talk to to do my job doesn’t want to be bothered. But I feel I must be very sweet and hands off with Todd because he could make or break the job.

    I’m getting my info elsewhere now, but I almost want to say to my boss “so I’m making this material without Todd’s input. That alright?”

    Am I just being extra? Should I try to talk to Todd one more time? Should I just give up on the smart grump?

    I’m truly just very irritated that the man can’t just respond to my email with “can’t help anymore sorry.” Like please. I know you’re overwhelmed but it’s not hard to respond to an email, even curtly.

    1. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      Ugh, the Delicate Genius. Seems like every job has one. Just avoid him and gray rock going forward. You definitely don’t need his help as much as he probably thinks you do.

      If anyone tries to give Todd credit for any of your work, make sure to let them know he “chose not to contribute.”

      1. WoaH*

        lol the Delicate Genius is accurate. This is my first time experiencing it! But this company has at least three resident smart guys who are the least helpful people.

    2. KitKat*

      I would personally try one last shot, if only as a CYA with my own boss.

      I’d go back to Todd (ideally on something he already agreed to give input on, if you haven’t already wrapped everything up) and say, “Hey, you agreed you’d be able to get me some feedback on requests like this on Y timeframe. Is there a different method/channel you’d like me to use when I have questions? If not, I’ll assume you have too much on your plate for this type of review and work with other folks on the team.”

      So take one last shot switching from “let me know if you don’t have capacity” to “Unless you name a specific other thing I should do, I’m going to assume going forward that you don’t have capacity, which is all good with me by the way, just need to make sure I’m moving my own projects forward!” That way if you keep getting asked why Todd isn’t giving input, you have given him every opportunity to give input.

      1. WoaH*

        I like this language, thank you! I don’t want to talk to him again :( but then I really can’t say I didn’t try.

    3. WellRed*

      Frankly I wonder if the problem is a bigger company problem. That “make or break” comment is pretty bad and unnecessarily adversarial.

      1. WoaH*

        Can you say more about that adversarial part? I’ve had a hard time verbalizing to my boss why that’s not a great part of culture (she’s trying to change it) and she frames it as “well they are such a key part of the department, we shouldn’t get on their bad side.” The way the company is set up, this is true sigh

        1. Lynn*

          That’s the problem. They shouldn’t HAVE a “bad side”. They don’t have to like everyone, but they do need to be civil and professional. Not that individuals don’t have bad days, and humans should give each other grace. But this is ongoing and your boss is treating that whole group like a missing stair.

        2. WellRed*

          It might seem vague or silly, but it’s simply not … welcoming. It’s far nicer to hear, we’re excited to have you and we’re here to help you get up to speed. They are all part of a greater team so it’s bad in how they treat these delicate geniuses or whoever.

    4. WorkerDrone*

      If I can make a kind of non-intuitive suggestion? Stop being so nice about it. Be polite, obviously, but stop being nice.

      I have found in the past that grumps of this kind are grumpiest when there’s extra “emotional labor” around what they’re being asked to do (it’s not really emotional labor but I can’t think of a better term). I get better responses with short, to-the-point requests and follow-ups.

      “So I’ve asked Todd for help, very specific help. Like “I know you’re super busy, so can you review THIS HIGHLIGHTED SECTION and tell me the answer to THIS SPECIFIC QUESTION within the next week, and if you can’t do it, no problem, just keep me posted and I can try to find someone else.” He curtly agreed yes, and then… nothing. I emailed 2x over the week to prompt and to ask hey is there anything I can do to help or let me know if you don’t have capacity. He will respond to other department emails but not mine.”

      Instead of all that softening language to work through, try just sending:

      “Can you review this highlighted section and tell me the answer to specific question by the end of the week? Thanks.”

      And to follow up, “Hi Todd, quick reminder I need the answer to specific question by tomorrow. Let me know if you can’t get it to me then.”

      Someone who is already overwhelmed and burnt out can be even more overwhelmed by the social niceties of overly-soft requests and I have seen grumps treat those who are too “nice” worse than they otherwise would just… I dunno, lol. Because they’re grumps and hate that other people aren’t suffering too, maybe? But for some reason, respond better to short, to-the-point requests that don’t have any fluff.

      1. WoaH*

        I hear you, but I am curt and direct in my emails! Verbatim what you say. BUT I am do add the niceties when I talk in person, because I feel as if my existence is a burden to Todd and my fawning turns on. So that’s good to know. I would like to allow myself more irritation which would let me be more direct with him in person. But emails are short.

        1. Snarl Trolley*

          Yeah, the in-person interactions are critical for handling the Delicate Man Babies of the working world who think being friendly makes them look weak. [eyeroll] As much as I hate it, matching their energy 1:1 changed everything for me at least, across multiple jobs and multiple DMBs. “Ugh, you’re going to ask so many questions, aren’t you” gets met with an equally dry “Yeah, ugh, it’s almost like we’re on a team in a workplace that requires an exchange of knowledge.” and then a silent stare. Aggressive? Yup! But in the kindergarten-esque mind of a DMB, playground logic rules supreme: He started it. You’re merely holding him to his own standard of behavior.

      2. Another Kristin*

        Agreed! Honestly, those are all quite polite and collegial phrasings. “Polite greeting, clear ask, expression of gratitude or salutation” is a pretty standard professional email format. If I got one of WorkerDrone’s suggested emails, I might still say “sorry, I don’t have time” or “Actually, it’s Jane’s job to provide feedback on new llama hairstyles, please ask her instead”. Adding extra verbiage and hedges not only sets a weird tone to your interaction – like you’re a supplicant asking for a huge favour rather than a colleague expecting a normal collaboration from another colleague – it makes your email longer and harder to read.

        1. Another Kristin*

          sorry, left out a key bit, that I might still not be able to do what you wanted if I got one of these emails, but I wouldn’t be at all offended or feel slighted, because these are perfectly normal, polite, expected kinds of emails!

    5. Grey Coder*

      Can you collect all the questions you have for Todd and then schedule a half hour meeting to collect the answers? I would phrase the request as “I have these questions” (and write them out for him). “If I get answers to these, then they will go into the Big Book of Knowledge I am writing and no one will ever bother you about them again.” Basically, point out that if he helps you now, he will cut down on future annoyances for himself.

      If he pulls out the “ugh, you’re going to ask questions” line again, you can say brightly, “yes! That’s what this meeting is about!”

    6. JPalmer*

      1. Todd is a productivity vacuum. He probably seems like such a genius because he makes other’s lives harder in the process.

      2. You can potentially ‘team up’ with Todd by trying to free up some of his bandwidth, which might take some of the stress off him. Based on his other behavior, Todd sucks and this isn’t a great avenue.

      3. You can try for group atmosphere where Todd’s shitty behavior is going to be more called upon.

      4. You can broaden your net and focus on the folks who aren’t Todd. “Todd doesn’t have the availability to help with this.”

      5. If you aren’t doing it already, document TS & Todd’s behavior meticulously. If Todd or others start freezing you out, or if the ‘boys club’ behavior continues, you want to be able to make the case to your manager. If Todd isn’t helping you because you’re a woman, that should be reflected in his employee evaluations.

      6. You mention your boss is a woman as well, so he is probably prickly with him and values him. Getting her to recognize that Todd is great at some things, but helping him unburden himself isn’t one of his excellent traits. This could get her to prioritize other TS to help answer your questions (or use them to get answers out of Todd)

      7. Todd is a grump, if he is subject to flattery you could present yourself as on his side of ‘Man all these dumb things are in your way, I’d love to help get them out of your way to unburden you if you’d answer these questions. Smart lazy people are in favor of enabling others who will help them be lazier and do less work. This ties into #2.

      8. Some people like to be unhappy. Think about if Todd ‘enjoys’ being the center of attention and stressed all the time. That’ll change some of your approach with how you try to resolve this.

      9. You could have a level conversation with Todd: “Hey Todd, I’m really trying to make you and your coworkers lives easier, is there a reason you’re so reluctant to help me. I’m trying to make my asks of you as small as possible, but you aren’t following through with them. If I can change how I go about things, please let me know, I want it to be us vs this problem and not a raincloud on your day”. This is best done with someone of authority present, perhaps asking them about it beforehand. It’s entirely possible Todd is just overworked and burnt out enough that he doesn’t recognize he’s being an ass or dropping deliverables. With an authority present it might be more likely to get an actual answer out of him.

      Hope this advice helps. Try some combination of the above.

  28. Thara Celehar*

    Hi all – I have this memory that there has been an AAM column or comment thread about the best/worst email sign offs (NOT oddball signature files, but literally the word you put before your name, like, how people find “Best, NAME” irritating, or how “Cheers” is more informal, “Sincerely” too formal, “Thanks” doesn’t work in all cases….etc). Can anyone help find it? I mentioned it to a group of early career folks and made them all panic about using the wrong one…haha

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Oh wait, you’re looking for actual advice, not funny stories. I think what you’re recalling happened in the comments, and it was just people expressing personal pet peeves like they hate “best, jane” or whatever — but truly, anything professional (sincerely, best, yours, thanks, etc.) is fine. Other people’s pet peeves don’t need to be given too much weight and you can find people who hate every option.

      2. Alexis Rose*

        I work in a job that is directly related to fish and fish things, and I routinely sign off emails with

        Best fishes,

        Not important or formal ones, and never to clients. but internal messages about me being on vacation next week or whatever. Best fishes :)

  29. Always the Bridesmaid*

    How’s job hunting going for everyone? I posted a few weeks ago about interviewing with many companies/multiple rounds and no offers. Since then I’ve interviewed with 3 more companies… one my asking salary was over their max, one was not a good fit and I declined to move forward, one was a solid first interview, but appears to be ghosting. :/

    How is everyone keeping up motivation for current positions when you’ve decided that the best move is to move on? And how are you warding off disillusionment with the whole job hunting and having process?

    1. Leaving academia*

      Best of luck! It’s exhausting and involves a lot of crying (at least for me). I’m also really struggling to keep my spirits up. I’m actually really missing the academic job application process which is…something, that’s for sure.

    2. Nicosloanica*

      I’m doing terribly. I have a FT job that is falling apart around me, and part-time hustle that is really picking up – they suddenly want more and more. It could be good … except the hustle will *never* pay me enough to replace the FT job. So what I really need to be doing is job searching. But I have zero energy to do so after working 2 jobs! I use my PTO, nights and weekends at the one job to work the other job. The *last* thing I’m capable of after I finally finish for the night is opening my email and beginning a few hours of job applications :( Short-term, I don’t feel able to decline side hustle work because I worry the FT job will dry up entirely and I’ll need the extra savings, but long term I realize this isn’t sustainable.

    3. Harlowe*

      It’s not going well. I’ve gotten to the pre-screen stage with two MAJOR industry names, which sent my hopes soaring, but then crickets. I can’t decide if that’s better or worse than never hearing back at all.

      1. Always the Bridesmaid*

        Ugh, yes I feel you. I’ve been in four final round interviews in the last six months with no offers and it makes starting the interview process AGAIN such a slog.

    4. PX*

      Struggling to be honest. This time of year is never great for motivation (the joys of a bit of seasonal depression) but I am so checked out at work its ridiculous. I’m lucky in that my role is very autonomous so I can slack off in peace, but also means I am only getting things done by the power of the mad “procrastinate then deliver in a short amount of time” method.

      Hoping the long Christmas break plus sunshine (for me) will help. But definitely a bit disillusioned as I’m not even getting interviews despite having several people review my CV and tell me its in good shape.

      My particular challenge is that having found out I’m being underpaid in this role, I’m determined to make up for it with a big salary bump – which unfortunately only really comes in certain industries for me. However even though I have about 90% transferable skills, that 10% lack of domain knowledge seems to be really killing my chances in this market. I may or may not decide to re-evaluate the salary requirements in the new year :/

      Good luck to everyone else out there! We should make a networking/support group perhaps :D

      1. Always the Bridesmaid*

        Love and support from a fellow SAD girl. The fall time change always gets to me.

        And yes, it definitely seems like companies are looking for unicorns that check all the boxes and apparently are able to find them?

        1. PX*

          Yeah, I think what helping me keep this in perspective was talking to a recruiter who confirmed its a terrible time to try and job hunt, companies are being much pickier and less willing to take a chance on people and that they are indeed waiting and somehow able to find their purple unicorns so *shrug* patience is the name of the game I guess.

    5. Busy Middle Manager*

      No one seems to be hiring. It’s a bit of vindication to see the “stellar” job #s revised down for Aug and Sept. Google BLS US jobs report for October, it just came out today.

      August was revised down from 159K to 78K jobs created
      Sept was revised down from 254K to 223k jobs created
      Oct was only 12K jobs created, which is supposedly cool because the hurricane or something (I’m not in agreement with the logic, if you don’t have a job it doesn’t matter why IMO)

      What bothers me is that the stock market kept rallying because the “stellar” jobs reports and now is not dropping because the real #s are out. Nothing like living a “recession” but seeing a raging bull market and constant news stories saying how great everything is. It’s really been hard on me mentally this month. We had thousands of news pieces on the white hot job market, only for it not to be true! It’s irresponsible

      1. Always the Bridesmaid*

        I have also heard speculation that companies are hesitant to hire before this election. I’m not a political/business expert by any means, but that makes sense to me. Who knows what kind of chaos we’re in for next week.

        1. Busy Middle Manager*

          I keep seeing this in the financial media but no one ever gets specific. IME I just think the culture of cost cutting and outsourcing before all else is just ingrained at this point. I don’t see a change in politics/party having an impact in the short term. Just this week Visa reported 1400 layoffs and Intel reported (or reiterated?) that it will layoff 15,000 people. I think that goes way beyond politics. While these #s may not be huge, a company that is laying off people is also one that is not hiring.

          Another reason I don’t think politics will impact the job market quickly is because they usually discover an issue late, then discuss it for a year, before doing anything. And I have yet to hear any candidate mention the mass outsourcing of white collar jobs to SE Asia yet, even though every person I know with a white collar job is mentioning it and it’s all over the financial media. So it probably won’t be until 2026 or 2027 that tax incentives or whatever, to on-shore white collar roles gets discussed

    6. Nonanon*

      I did A pre-screen (one out of… noncommittal muttering noise applications) but I’m worried my anxiety might have inadvertently put me out of the running; something in the pre-screen made it seem like the job wasn’t full time, and I asked the rep to clarify. They never answered.
      I just feel stuck because I have an advanced degree, but I’m technically underqualified for a lot of positions in my area; can’t relocate to somewhere I’d be more competitive since relocating means my partner’s out of a job and it’s just a whole thing.

      Oh well, at least I’m not the only one who thinks job hunting right now just sucks. Hope it gets better for all y’all.

    7. Paint N Drip*

      Middling. I’m not desperately searching and I’m trying to pivot industries and my job title too, so have been applying only very selectively and getting fewer bites than otherwise. Some of the search processes have been sooooo longgggg and some have been alarmingly quick, so I feel like I’m really on a rollercoaster! I’ve only gotten a few interviews, have turned down one position after getting the details. I’ve been able to stay excited about the next few applications out there, and keep the energy going so far. Hope everyone finds some luck!! <3

    8. Frankie*

      I’m struggling, too. I’m applying to select jobs where I’m pretty qualified and haven’t even gotten a personalized rejection yet, just form letters. Take heart that you’re making it to the interview stage!

    9. Procedure Publisher*

      I’ve had some recruiters contact me. I had to do some homework for one because we were trying to figure out how long of a break in employment from my former employer I needed before I can contract with them. (Info was in an FAQ doc former employer gave when I was notified of my layoff.)

      On the other hand, I made it to the final round of interviews for a position that is a step up from what I was doing. One of the behavioral questions was one where I didn’t have a good example for to answer. I’m not going to stop applying until I have a firm job offer and a scheduled start date.

      For technical writing jobs, I am seeing a lot of postings.

  30. Watry*

    I work for a local government agency whose head is up for re-election this year. Normally there would be several layers of management between me and anyone who could be seriously affected by a regime change, but for Reasons that is not so, and the waves of stress are rolling downwards. If you work for an elected, how are you holding up, and if you’re also stressed, how are you lasting until the results are confirmed?

    1. Phoenix*

      I am also very stressed!! Trying to avoid the news and stay in denial as much as possible, honestly. I’m also doing a little desultory job searching to remind myself that if the new boss is horrible, I can leave.

  31. Wasps, mice, and bears, oh my*

    I work in an office that *under the table* lets us work remotely, but it’s not something we’re supposed to do regularly for long periods without an excuse. Well. The office had a round of wasps in the wall that infested the office, leading to a wasp landing on my scalp and stinging my hairline. That did get taken care of.

    Now though. We have mice. Like I saw Stuart Little run across my doorway in the morning and screamed. Coworkers report of poop and pee on their keyboards and desk. My bosses act so shocked when they hear this and then go, oh well, that’s life I guess. I brought up “Well I HATE MICE so I may just work from home because of this” and get stared at like I’m some sort of wuss.

    They have set bait traps so they’re doing…something… But I am hating being in the office and constantly looking around the office when I see something in the corner of my eye. Could I push to work remotely for the next… I don’t know two weeks or something? I just… y’all… I just hate mice. I’m distracted from work.

    1. FashionablyEvil*

      How big is your organization? Do you have any sort of health or safety office? I would definitely go there if you have that because this is a serious health hazard.

      1. Wasps, mice, and bears, oh my*

        It’s a huge org! But we are a non profit and idk if that is influencing the lack of concern. They put in the work order and that’s who set down the bait stations. They said they’re an eco friendly company so they won’t do anything further. UGH.

        1. RedinSC*

          How about asking about Hantavirus and maybe google if it’s in your area or not and then say, mitigation has to happen.

          I’d be bleaching my desk every morning, to be honest.

    2. Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender*

      They need professional exterminators. I’d be freaked out too.

      I’m so grossed out by the pee and poop on desks and keyboards. I’d be bringing the in a black light to check my area. If it were my keyboard, that biz would have to be thrown out. Big disinfecting of desk. The whole office probably needs a deep clean D-:

      I’m with you on working remote until the place is free of vermin.

    3. TK41*

      So, I recently went through this. The office I was in did have regular in person visitors, so having some people in the office was an issue.
      One thing that helped somewhat, was having other coworkers express concerns. If you are in person, it’s not just your lunch that’s at risk, mice chew wires and other things. So wanting to keep laptops and other crucial items somewhere they cannot be affected is reasonable.
      Also, asking for clear and regular updates for how they are handling it. Are the traps capturing anything? Have they located any entry points?
      Our office they actually captured quite a few, and then it tapered off, which helped.
      They were a little, shall we say, annoyed that people wanted to work from home, but once we got into some of the details, and not just eek, mouse (although, eek, mouse) it helped.

    4. KitKat*

      Mice are a serious health hazard. The droppings can carry hantavirus, which can be deadly and can be released into the air when the droppings are disturbed. I would not be in the office unless/until it was treated and professionally cleaned.

    5. WellRed*

      This isn’t…really normal. What is wrong with your management? If you are in the US, thus may violate some sort of local or federal health and safety rule.

    6. the cat's pajamas*

      If your office is in a rented building, can you try reporting it to building management directly? Or maybe asking the other tenants in the building if they’ve had and/or reported mice? That might get more traction if your leadership isn’t doing enough.

    7. Serious safety issue!!*

      Even if you LOVED mice, this is a serious health hazard. As others have said, hantavirus can be fatal and it comes from mouse droppings. Cleaning it up yourself (or themselves) may not be adequate. Forget about trying to talk to your management. Call the city / county health department immediately and lodge an anonymous complaint. And work from home whether they like it or not, if you can.

  32. UpNorthIsRelative*

    Can we just do a way with the idea of workplace as a “family”? I’m starting to think this phrasing should be an automatic huge red flag?

    2. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      The first time I heard this phrase was maybe in the 90’s and I almost snort laughed in the interview. The interviewer paused and I apologized and said “If you knew how messed up my family was, that would not be a selling point”.

      I didn’t get the job, but I think I lucked out

    3. Rex Libris*

      I’ve always taken it as a red flag. An employer says “We’re like family” and I hear “We’re judgmental, petty, expect you to center your life around us and don’t respect boundaries.” Or maybe that’s just my family.

      1. ThatGirl*

        When I applied for my current job, it was a privately, family-owned company – albeit a big one. And their talk of the [Company] Family in the ad DEFINITELY gave me pause. But there were other green flags, so I went ahead and applied and obviously got the job.

        And I will say, they mostly did it right – they genuinely seemed to care about employees, supported people well during covid, gave Christmas bonuses and did a lot of employee appreciation. There was a bit of “too much” about it at points, but it was kinda nice. And then we merged with/got acquired by a bigger public company and a lot of the warm fuzzy feelings went away.

        that said, they were possibly the exception that proved the rule. And I agree with you, “family” can be exhausting, annoying and boundary-stomping.

    4. JPalmer*

      Totally agree. When I hear it at a workplace I tend to pump the breaks in a relaxed tone.

      “Oh, I wouldn’t use that term, that’s often used by workplaces to try and encourage unhealthy work habits. How about we describe ourselves as ?”

      By suggesting an alternative and focusing your responses on that, it gets them to passively accept ‘Family’ is a bad/toxic way to describe a workplace. If they say ‘Oh family isn’t bad’. you can reply with “There are positive ways that it can be used, but just too many baked negative connotations that give a bad impression, can we use instead?”

    5. fhqwhgads*

      I don’t know anyone who doesn’t already take “we’re like family” in a workplace to be a huge red flag.

    6. Riley*

      I had a job where the manager said we were like family, and he genuinely meant in the healthy, supportive manner that families would ideally be. Then I got laid off when we lost the contract I was hired to support. Jobs are not family.

  33. Olive*

    I am going on medical leave for 6 weeks to do a partial hospitalization eating disorder program. Does anyone have experience or advice about navigating this in the workplace? I’m handling the messaging well— being proactive, communicating about logistics while maintaining my privacy, and documenting my work so someone else can cover for me. But I would love some input about things like setting up an auto-responder on email or other details of the reality of taking medical leave. Thank you!

    1. Colette*

      I think your auto-responder can just say “I’m out of the office on medical leave and expect to be back December 17. While I’m away, you can contact Jenna at …”

      I’d include the medical part just so people don’t think you’re on vacation.

      1. Jay (no, the other one)*

        I took a month of leave for stress-related medical issues and my OOO said “I’m on extended leave and you can reach out to XYZ.” I don’t think you need to include the bit about medical leave, although it’s also not wrong to do so.

    3. No name yet*

      I just sent out an e-mail to close to 1000 people, and got probably 10-12 Outlook auto-replies that would fit what you’re talking about. The most common seems to be something like, “I am out of the office on extended leave, planning to return on DATE. Please contact COVERAGE PERSON for any coverage needs.” Optionally, adding a sentence “I will not have access to e-mail or voicemail during this time.” I personally wouldn’t add something about it being medical leave – people might assume that (I would), but that leaves it a bit more open to people asking how you’re feeling/if you’re okay (obviously up to you how you feel about that).

      Also, if you use Outlook, make sure to check that you have the out-of-office message set for both internal and external people.

      Other thoughts: if you’re in the US and taking FMLA, be sure that you and your supervisor/team are clear about what you can and cannot do while on leave. And look forward to see if there’s anything that will be due during your leave or right afterwards that you need to take care of. I was on maternity leave and the dept admin repeatedly e-mailed me on my personal e-mail because of paperwork that wasn’t due until after I got back (I had double-checked), but they needed me to fill out my part several months before the actual due date, which I hadn’t known.

      And I’ll echo Jay – I hope the program is helpful for you and your road gets easier.

  34. ShipRat*

    For the last 5 years, I’ve worked in a department that writes and maintains a custom EHR for social workers to provide Medicaid services to low-income community members with mental health issues. It’s been really rewarding, even if the software is a total mess.

    Recently, the department announced that it’s going to switch to an off-the-shelf EHR, eventually putting me out of a job. That’s not the problem; I agree they should switch to off-the-shelf and I can transfer or find a different job. The problem is they’ve decided that transferring to the new software is pretty much all we’re going to be allowed to do next year, and they haven’t even picked the EHR yet! In my experience, just figuring out what we need from the EHR is going to take half a year, minimum, and probably another 6 months arguing over which one. Another org similar to ours spent 3 years selecting and trying to install an EHR before giving up and going back to their custom system. In the meantime I’ll be… twiddling my thumbs? Letting requests pile up because it’s “not a good use of resources” for me to do my job if they’re going to install an EHR (eventually)?

    It’s a solid job with great benefits, it lets me WFH every day, I like my boss… I realize it’s a luxury to expect life satisfaction from one’s job, but I expect to be able to use my skills and gain experience. At what point do I decide it’s time to jump ship to a job that lets me work?

    1. NaoNao*

      Can you switch to project managing the switchover? I can see a lot of potential work there–coms, mini projects, tracking deadlines, research and implementation, vendor management, etc.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I’m a software developer. That sounds like my literal nightmares.

        I helped with a Salesforce install early in my tenure, and even with the best project manager I’ve ever worked with, it stressed me out enough to affect my sleep. (Why were multiple software developers helping with a Salesforce install with no custom code? I have no idea. We didn’t even take over administration tasks afterwards!)

    2. Nicosloanica*

      If you like the org and the set up, any chance you can transfer to a different project or department? Can you talk to your boss about this?

    3. Charlotte Lucas*

      I agree with both the replies above and will say that I have never seen a software changeover happen as quickly or smoothly as anticipated, especially when moving from homemade to out-of-the-box.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Yeah, if we ever actually make it to the changeover it’s going to be a complete clusterfudge. I have doubts we make it that far; we’ve gone through the requisition process at least once before with no lasting results. They announced they were going to try to find a system months ago, and I was like, “Good luck, you’re going to need it.”

        This week I found out they’d stopped approving *any* projects for the current EHR, though, which is what has me wondering if it’s time to jump ship.

    4. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Could you approach your boss with something like “I’m concerned about the current plan to stop using our existing EHR before getting the new one implemented. If we run into any roadblocks or the project takes longer than we hope it will, that could leave [customers] without [the stuff they need] indefinitely. Can we revisit that decision?”

      1. MigraineMonth*

        My boss and my grand-boss both think that it’s way too soon to stop work on our current EHR; unfortunately, no one with the authority to approve work requests seems to be listening to them. It’s been an ongoing issue where upper levels of management have inserted themselves in day-to-day processes and ground them to a halt, then not listened to any feedback from the rank-and-file. It takes over 3 months to get a 2-week project approved, and even after it’s approved we aren’t supposed to work on it until the scheduled time, even if we have no other approved projects to work on.

        I’ve been rolling with it so far, occasionally getting my manager’s approval to just go ahead and do work I’ve been told not to, but that’s going to get harder if we’re told to stop working on the EHR entirely.

        1. Ama*

          Honestly, I would at least start looking around — at this point you can be picky and not leave unless you find something you really want but this sounds like such a nightmare.

          (I may be biased though because I left my last job when I realized there were a couple upgrade projects my department was going to have to deal with soon and after wrangling a project implementing a simple policy change that was supposed to take six months and took *four years* to actually get signed off on, I no longer had any interest in trying to take on some even more complicated projects with that same ridiculous approval structure.)

  35. Drought*

    I had the most uncomfortable “can’t do anything about it” situation ever at work. A guy who use to work here stopped by to visit because the company is moving him back to France. Normal, except with one of the women on my team there was extreme tension. It was like they were both radiating – we could have been so good together – vibes. I instantly felt like a 3rd wheel at my own cubicle and turned around to work but even the way they spoke oozed desire and regret.

    So so bizarre! I felt like I was in the corny 3rd act breakup scene of rom com.

    So anyone else have unwilling captive audience tales from work this week?

    1. juliebulie*

      I don’t, but thank you for sharing yours. Maybe it will find its way into some AAM fanfic. I take it you didn’t threaten to turn a hose on them?

    2. Double A*

      I’m appreciating reading this because I read a lot of romance novels and it’s good to confirm that sometimes people’s chemistry is so strong that other people do in fact notice it.

    3. Too Long Til Retirement*

      I was just captive audience to a discussion about the election between my boss and clients. That was hard as a more liberal person who isn’t loud about my own politics at my heavily conservative office.

    4. Goldfeesh*

      I think a coworker and I did that to another coworker one time. I remember her giving us a weird look. We both had strong chemistry with each other but were both married. Neither of us leaned into it but I’m sure there was some unintentional vibes given off. I eventually left that job because my husband and I moved for his job.

    5. Sigh*

      nothing romantic, but I’ve been caught in venting sessions between my VP manager and another at his level about c-suite level conflict, where it was information I really really did not want to hear or know, and no good way to escape. If my boss is in my space and talking to me about work, it’s really annoying to be trapped in there for gossip – no matter how ‘hot’.

  36. Beth**

    TLDR; am I being too sensitive?

    I work in a team of 9. My manager has 2 direct reports and the rest of the team report to us. We work in an office setting but we’re all hybrid with 2-3 days/week on average in the office.
    About 3 weeks ago, my manager swapped roles with a peer in another team on the same floor (normal in our company). The person he swapped with promptly went on maternity leave, meaning we’ve been effectively managerless for that time. My peer and I are sharing our manager’s responsibilities for now. For HR purposes (booking leave etc.) we still have the same manager and he’s still occasionally involved in day-to-day work where necessary, but I’ve tried to keep that to a minimum to allow him to settle into his new job.

    Last week I had surgery (relatively minor but under general anaesthesia). I communicated to my (semi-ex) manager in advance, letting him know I would be off on the day of the surgery. He was his usual self and said all the right things (by text) such as not to come in the next day if I didn’t feel up to it.

    Then I had the surgery and I haven’t heard from him since.

    We had a good relationship before he moved. I was back in the office this week for the first time since the surgery this week and I saw him wandering around since he’s still working on the same floor, but he hasn’t come over to speak to me or even checked in by text. I have sent him one text since then on a work-related matter. He didn’t reply, but he sent the email I had asked him to send.

    I’m feeling hurt that he hasn’t at least sent a text to ask how I’m doing. It feels out of character for him.

    My boss’s boss put in weekly 1:1 meetings with me and my peer for the first two weeks after my manager moved on the basis that he hoped he’d have appointed a successor by now. (Spoiler: he hasn’t.) The first one (before the surgery) took place, but he cancelled the one the following week (after the surgery) and we have only spoken briefly about specific work-related questions since then.

    The culture in our company is very much to have regular 1:1 catch-ups with one’s manager and for managers to have an active pastoral role. But I haven’t been in this situation — where there has been ongoing uncertainty about who my manager is — previously, particularly not when I’m actually in need of pastoral support. I don’t know if my expectations are unrealistic here, so really just looking for others’ views.

    1. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

      The question is what specifically are you looking for your boss to do to support you? I can’t tell from your question if you’re looking for someone to be a more active manager in terms of overseeing your work (like being more available for questions or to move things forward that you need someone more senior to help with), or if this is more of an interpersonal concern.

      If the latter – it would be nice if your manager(s) checked in with you about the surgery, but managers are human and forget about this stuff. On my ten-person team, I have approximately a 30-second memory for someone’s reason for being out of office especially if it’s a short leave period. that’s not because I don’t care, it’s because someone on my team is always out for something and it’s just more detail than my brain can hold.

      Totally reasonable for you to remind them in the course of normal check-ins and ask for what you need from them – and maybe that’ll prompt a more supportive interpersonal response – but I’m not sure the expectation that they would proactively check in with you about it is going to happen.

      1. Beth**

        It was the lack of interpersonal connection that stung. When he saw my text about the email I needed him to send, the text immediately above that would have been about the surgery, which could have jogged his memory and he could have replied to the more recent text and asked how I was doing. Instead, he did what I asked him to do without even acknowledging the text.

        We had had multiple conversations about my condition and the uselessness of our employer-provided medical insurance before the surgery got scheduled. So it’s disappointing that he’s blanked me ever since.

        1. Annony*

          Health can be a weird topic to navigate. Some people do not ask questions about someone’s health because they don’t want to accidentally pry. Is it possible he felt it would be inappropriate to ask you about your health? I agree that some acknowledgement would be nice but it is possible that his neglect comes from awkwardness rather than thoughtlessness.

        2. Cat Lady in the Mountains*

          Yeah, I mean I get that it’s disappointing – really I do. And that seems like a lot of expectation of interpersonal engagement from your manager. Some managers might genuinely be great at this kind of thing, and some managers might be great in the right circumstances, and I could totally see myself just not registering it. The prompts you’re pointing to are subtle enough that they wouldn’t break through my “immediately focused on the task at hand” mindset I’m often in at work, especially when I’m busy.

          1. MigraineMonth*

            It also sounds like your (former) manager is in the middle of transitioning to a new role and out of the role of being your official manager, which makes it much more likely for this type of thing to fall through the cracks. He’s probably focused on trying to get to know his new reports and responsibilities, and he may be taking the fact that you’re back at work so soon after your surgery as meaning that it went well.

            I hope everything went well and recovery goes smoothly!

    2. Pool Noodle Barnacle Pen0s*

      Yes, you’re being too sensitive. Your manager (correctly) considers medical matters private.

      1. Everything Bagel*

        I have to agree with this. He’s doing what he should be doing, which is not getting involved in your medical issues.

        Somewhat related, I had a manager who never balked if I would tell him I needed to take time for a medical appointment, but he would always ask if everything’s okay, then as I’d start to answer, he would abruptly stop me and say, “You don’t have to tell me anything, just take whatever time you need.” I mean every single time over 8 years he did this. I would go back to my desk thinking, so why did you bother to ask me if everything’s okay? I appreciated his not having a need to know, but then I always was confused about why he would bother asking and not just say it’s okay take the time you need without asking if everything is going to be okay. I didn’t need him to ask that for me to feel good, but maybe he thought I did. It was very strange.

        Anyway, all that to say your manager probably just doesn’t want to seem like he’s being intrusive or maybe he just doesn’t want to know the details of your personal medical issue. Either way, I don’t think you should take it personally.

        1. Tio*

          My manager is VERY into interpersonal things and I am not, and I have a lot of health issues. So when one comes up he is very (genuinely!) concerned whereas I just want to get into the work and not go over everything! Meanwhile yeah I could probably do to brush up on my interpersonal concerns with people, so we’re really just two polar opposite types. But I think you have to let it go here.

  37. bratgpt*

    We have an executive team and a senior leadership team. I’m technically part of the executive team but in an administrative function, so I’m in the room but I’m not really a voice. It has recently come to the forefront that the majority of the senior leadership team, say six people, has been having problems with the seventh for some time. They have all expressed their issues in no uncertain terms to the executive team, and I have been watching two execs in particular react to these complaints/reports as if they are unsubstantiated hearsay with no merit — or misinterpretations of the seventh member’s behavior; while a third who seems more aligned with the other 6 is not putting forward his opinion very strongly. I have no personal experience with the behavior being complained about (or I would say something!), but I tend to err on the side of believing 6 senior people who have proven themselves to be good employees and leaders, some of them for decades, and I am legitimately worried that the bizarre dismissive attitude being displayed the executive team is going to cause us to lose good people. Everyone in both groups is, in my experience, generally well-meaning and rational, with some foibles/blind spots that are just part of being people.

    Has anyone been in a similar situation and seen it navigated to some kind of best possible conclusion? How?

    1. MsM*

      If you don’t have a voice, then unfortunately there’s not a lot you can do other than let them learn the hard way when people do start leaving. Is there a member of the leadership team you’re on comfortable enough terms with that you can voice your concerns to them?

      The other thing you might be able to do if you think leadership’s not really seeing this as a pattern is collect all the past meetings as background information for the next time someone lodges a complaint. But the complainees should really be building that case themselves.

  38. Lily Rowan*

    Reporting back from the minister search mines — thanks to Retired Accountant and Im for recommending the book The Search, but I should not have read it until after our search was successful! Haha, it stressed me out. But our committee is all aligned and excited about how we’re moving forward, so that’s great.

    1. No name yet*

      OMG I found that book SO STRESSFUL, and I’ve never even been on a search committee – I can’t imagine reading it while in the process! But hey, at least however yours goes, it should be better than theirs? Good luck!

  39. Meep*

    I know it is a very controversial topic and sometimes it does work out, but I am curious about the general feeling of dating one’s coworker. Do you think it is acceptable so long as you are in different departments or are you ok with it as long as there isn’t a power dynamic?

    And since it Friday, for funsies: How do we feel about the whole genre of romance novels of women falling in love with their much richer bosses? Personally, I don’t know why, but in real life I cringe, but in a fiction setting, I am very much “eh. not my favorite trope, but I am here for the drama.”

    (Mostly inspired by my BIL griping about his on-again, off-again FWB (AGAIN!) who happens to be his coworker.)

    1. Colette*

      I think it’s only something you can do if you’re willing to leave your job if it doesn’t work out – because you might have to. So I’d be very careful about it. (I’m defining coworker as someone you regularly interact with as part of your job; if it’s someone who works for the same company in a remote-enough role that you never see them, it’s lower risk.)

      1. Ama*

        Honestly, depending on what industry you’re in you might have to be willing to leave your job if it DOES work out. My dad was an accountant at a CPA firm — he had two coworkers that started dating and that was fine, but when they got engaged they had to decide who was going to leave the firm when they got married (in the accounting industry post-Enron you basically don’t want any situation where two people that have a shared financial interest work with the same clients as it’s easier for two people to work around the processes designed to prevent fraud).

        It all worked out fine — the husband was the one who left, and they are still married twenty years later. (In fact the wife actually left the firm and came back recently, right before my dad retired.) But they did have to make a big decision when it turned out they were going to stay together.

    2. Nicosloanica*

      I get why “rich boyfriend is going to solve all my problems” is an effective fantasy (and a classic trope used in both Pride and Prejudice and kinda Jane Eyre, two of my personal favorite books, even though it’s not really my favorite trope!). It’s not so different from “won the lottery” but you get to have steamy scenes and/and romantic tension. I don’t think it has much to do with actual real-life workplace relationships. I do think it’s a big tough to ask people never to date people they work with when most young people spend so many of their waking hours at work. It’s not something I’d advise someone to do or want to do myself, but if it happens, I get it.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        In Jane Austen, it’s very clearly in the women’s economic interest to marry “well.” Marxist critics love Austen, because she is so out in the open about the economics of marriage in her day.

        1. Sloanicota*

          I mean, to be brutally honest, it’s still in a woman’s economic interest to marry well. And men’s interest too, of course, but we don’t talk about that quite as much. Certainly I see how friends of mine that married wealthy people with a lot of job earning potential are suddenly doing great, even though we make the same as we always have and I’m not doing better than ever.

    3. Harlowe*

      It’s so industry dependent for me. I would NEVER date a colleague because being a woman in tech is already a gender-related uphill battle. My friends in nonprofits, though, have endless stories about well-off women who use their role to husband-shop amongst the C-suite and donors.

      1. Meep*

        That is an interesting point!

        I am in a small engineering field so there is bound some “incestuous” relationships going on. I have two coworkers who started dating their boyfriends/fiancés during college, and it was pretty common for there to be 1-2 messy break-ups every year. Our industry has a whooping 23% of industry being female (which is very high – average is 15%). One of the coworkers and her boyfriend work together now, but they are highly professional, but yeah, she had a lot of concern with our former manager threatening to fire HER (despite her working here first) if we were to hire him.

      2. MigraineMonth*

        Also a woman in tech, and it took me a long time to be comfortable just being overtly femme at work (wearing dresses/makeup, or discussing my hobbies of dancing or crochet). I would never date a male coworker.

    4. HannahS*

      I understand and see the pitfalls, but in the mundanity of real like I know a fair amount of people who met their partners at work. They were usually either in different teams or departments, or even just sharing a co-working space. If people are able to be normal about it and exercise good judgment (i.e. don’t date someone you have to continue seeing every day if it doesn’t work out, don’t date a boss/subordinate, etc.) then I really don’t see it as a problem.

    5. Csethiro Ceredin*

      I couldn’t date a colleague because we’re small and I am too close to the top of the food chain, so it would be a conflict no matter who it was. I think if it were a big enough company that you don’t see them at work all the time, and your work was wholly separate, it could be okay.

      Big no for me re those romance novels, though. I don’t like tropes where the woman has less power in the relationship, though I’m not sure if that is a feminist thing or a personal taste thing. And I think I’d spend too much time mentally yelling at the characters.

      The less “real life” the story, the less it bothers me – I was okay with Hench, for example. An office setting feels too close to home, but I’m not going to be part of a supervillain enterprise anytime soon.

      1. Meep*

        Yeah, I think for me, it is usually written in such a nonsensical way that it is easy for me to look at the romance novels as just pure fantasy daydreaming of the author and put the onus more on the author for the drivel they write (and maybe the consumer who fantasizes about it). If more of the genre was actually realistic, I might not be able to disconnect so easily. But for me it is no different than now popular genre of the impoverish human girl catching the fae king’s eye. I am more there for the psyche of the person who thinks it is riveting writing and laughing at the bad writing than I am invested in the story itself.

        I can admit both are actual harmful to women as a whole, but neither are going to happen in real life, you know? (Plus, I am a raccoon. I love consuming trash, because again that psychological aspect behind the writing.)

    6. Tio*

      So, I met my partner at work, although in the beginning we worked at different companies in the same location. But I don’t know if I would have gone through with it if I hadn’t known I would be leaving that job once I finished schooling. My company is fine with people dating in different divisions, but you can’t be in the same department. There’s way too many issues that can come up, even if you’re just way above the chain from someone. You get access to info before the regular people and then have to withhold it or face issues. It can be rough

    7. Qwerty*

      I don’t think it is wise to seek out dating a colleague. But if the chemistry and interest is already there you’re already getting the drama and awkwardness but with none of the perks. I know multiple couples who started dating teammates and eventually got married (usually were at different jobs by the time they got engaged). And have worked with people who were deliberately Not Dating that was more awkward than if they just got together.

      So…yeah, I’ve gotten involved with a colleague a couple times.

      First Example: Guy made a move and won me over, he decided it was too complicated to date a coworker and he wouldn’t be able to handle a breakup, we spent over a year in that limbo of almost dating where he got weird anytime a guy showed interest in me. I think everyone would have preferred if we just dated for a couple months and had a messy breakup because there would have at least been closure. (Ok, my preference would be if he never the made the move in the first place because I was super oblivious up to that point)

      Second Example: I was planning to quit, we got drunk and hooked up. Then circumstances changed so I stayed at the company but on a different team. We broke up after a few weeks because long work hours with your new SO is weird, then got back together because breaking up didn’t make it any less weird and stayed together for a year. Most people had no idea. Some thought we really should try dating but we were professional enough (and disagreed on many things) that they just thought we were good friends. Both of us left the company by the time we broke up, we still hang out with all of our old coworkers.

    8. MigraineMonth*

      I’d be okay with the genre of women falling in love with their fabulously rich bosses if the boss weren’t usually a controlling a-hole. I guess there isn’t enough drama if the romantic lead is just a kind and generous person with above-average communication skills.

    9. Pam Adams*

      I always figured that the woman gets fired, as soon as he sees the next one. Probably worse for the 50 Shades of Grey type of relationship.

    10. missing him*

      Ah, I met my husband at work over 37 years ago. He was a manager in a different department, though my work overlapped with work he oversaw. We were able to remain professional at work for the 10 months we dated while we worked together. I left the company to take a position that better aligned with my career goals and I would have left the company if we did not work out. I am glad we did work out and had such a long and wonderful marriage. And there were times I wished we still worked together, only because I wanted to spend more time with him.

  40. Adult learners*

    Does anyone have resources for learning how to effectively teach adult learners? Preferably lower cost or free?

    1. Steve-Oh*

      The Navy Instructor Manual is free online (NAVEDTRA 134A). While the military aspect won’t apply, the chapters on principles of learning and effective communication are really helpful. It discusses learning theory directed at adults and how best to get information across.

    2. Ginger Cat Lady*

      Design for the Way People Learn is a great book and may be available at your library. They may have other books on the topic as well.
      You also can probably get LinkedIn Learning free through your library and they likely have some relevant courses as well. My library lets me access LIL from home and log in with my library card.

  41. Spazzy Cat*

    One of our VPs is retiring next fall. Interviews likely wont be until the summer, but there are several folks who already expressed an interest in applying. I’m part of the C-suite and I invited 3 of the stronger candidates to join me at an industry conference and a client after-party. I explicitly said the party was optional, but if they were interested in promoting, they should attend because client schmoozing is a big part of the VP role. Anna said she was tired and skipped the party. Betty came to the party, talked mostly to existing staff, and avoided our clients. Cathy skipped the party, rented a car and drove 90 miles to go gamble at Las Vegas. Before this event, I thought Cathy was the top choice, but now I’m questioning her judgement. Am I wrong to think Cathy should just be taken off the list for consideration? Maybe Anna also went gambling or did something else non-business like, but at least she had enough sense to not share that publicly. It’s still months before the interview, so they all have time to wow me. But I am so disappointed in Cathy.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      So you told all three of them that this was basically an audition for the VP job, and all three either bailed or did it poorly? I’d be disappointed in all of them.

    2. A Book about Metals*

      I’m a little confused because you mention you went out of your way to say it was optional, so I’m not sure why it’s a problem they didn’t attend.

      I can understand that for you it may have been a great opportunity to see them in action, but they may not have wanted to audition/cattle call in this way, especially if they all showed up – it could get awkward if they were trying to out-schmooze each other. Plus the job’s not coming up for a year anyway?

      IMO you need to reframe this

      1. noname today*

        Was coming here to say this. Also you don’t know the context of their other choices—was the gambling gal out in a pre-planned girls weekend? Was the one who totally opted out feeling under the weather? Was the one who attended thinking you’d be mentoring them someway in terms of introducing them to clients—and if so did you?

        Agree that you should reframe this.

      2. Joielle*

        Well, optional but if you want the promotion you should go. So it sounds like Cathy doesn’t want the promotion – which is fine, but then it seems reasonable to take her off the list of strong candidates that the OP is going out of their way to help.

      3. Spazzy Cat*

        The party was optional and has no bearing in the evaluation of their current role. I still think they are fabulous performers and not attending doesn’t change that.
        But their lack of attendance does make me question their ability to perform at the VP level. The party had over 200 guests (close to 300) if you include staff). All 3 have a different client base, so they wouldn’t of been interacting with each other, so I don’t think it had a cattle call feel.

        I appreciate your different perspective.

    3. Tech Industry Refugee*

      “It’s still months before the interview, so they all have time to wow me.”

      I threw up in my mouth a little bit. Here’s an idea, how about you interview them and decide who the best candidate is for the job, instead of playing subtle games with your employees? This isn’t a bootlicking contest. Gross.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I hate to agree with you but I dooooooo
        I get wanting the potential hires to prove themselves, but if you’re going to make official judgments you gotta make the proving-event official

        1. Tech Industry Refugee*

          Yep – “I expect you to show up at this event for face time with the clients. This is an important qualifier to be in the running for the VP job.” Totally didn’t need to be as toxic as it was.

    4. Joielle*

      If I got a special invitation to an event that would explicitly help my chances at a promotion, I would take it more seriously than these 3 did! Maybe go back to Cathy and ask her about it – if you were explicit that anyone interested in the promotion should go to the party, maybe she doesn’t actually want the promotion. Or maybe the message got confused and she thought it was more optional than it was. As for the other two – Betty could maybe do better with a little coaching. I’d reserve judgment on Anna because of course you don’t want to hold an illness against her – but at the same time, VPs sometimes need to push through fatigue to get work done.

      I know commenters on this site can lean heavily towards not requiring employees to go to events, but for a high-level position I think it’s reasonable to want to start seeing how they do in that environment.

      1. WellRed*

        I agree with this. I wouldn’t rule any of them out because how they act now is not necessarily an indication of how they’d actually act in the role, though Im disappointed in all three of them and in your shoes would be scratching my head over this. But again, it’s one event and interviewing hasn’t started yet.

      2. A Book about Metals*

        I don’t think this has to do with requiring employees to go to events or not:

        1) LW specifically said it was optional

        2) The job isn’t even open for a year

        3) Is watching people schmooze clients who they may have never met and have no context for really going to help LW evaluate?

    5. HonorBox*

      I can see how you’re disappointed and maybe a bit frustrated. But “they all have time to wow me” gives me a bit of pause. It feels like you’re putting this after party and “wow” moments up as some sort of test. Also, while it is totally fair to take what you know (both good and bad) about an internal candidate into consideration, it would really feel icky to me if I was an external candidate and knew that there were some test moments that internal candidates were set up for because then you’re not evaluating everyone as equally and fairly as possible.

      If this was truly something you were going to use in an evaluation of these three potential candidates, it shouldn’t have been presented as optional. They should have heard “if you’re interested in being promoted, you need to attend because client schmoozing is a big part of this role and we need someone who can do that.”

      1. Spazzy Cat*

        There won’t be any external candidates. This is a super niche industry and it’s common for folks to announce their retirement or resignation 9-12 months ahead of time. This gives internal candidates a chance to improve certain skills.

        1. HonorBox*

          That makes sense. Thank you. I know if you’d have invited me to attend, I’d have made sure to be there. There might be explanations for all three of these individuals. I might put a little more emphasis on watching the growth and development of the one who went to Vegas, while not discounting her completely. I do think I’d still push back a bit on the “wow” comment. Maybe someone does something exceptional, but slow steady improvement might lead to a longer-term success, too.

    6. MsM*

      I wouldn’t take anyone off the list, but I would make it very clear if any more opportunities like this come up in the interim or at the interview stage that being willing to network even if it means a long day is a very important part of this role, and right now you have concerns about whether that’s something they’re willing and able to do. Either they’ll find a way to assuage those concerns or they won’t. (Or you’ll meet some external candidate at an event who’ll make it a moot point.)

    7. M2*

      Look for an external hire, don’t hire internally or give them one more chance?
      If you were that clear and they all basically failed I would probably take them off the list or really check their work and judgement over the next few months.

      I work in an industry where before you can be promoted to C-level you basically have to do the job and audition for it for 6 months. You have to prove you can do all the work inside and outside of normal working hours and some stuff is written out for you and other times it is like this, told it is optional because IRL you’ll be on your own and skipping will loose you clients. You won’t know that from an interview. You only know it IRL.

      Can you look at a search firm and look for an external hire? Give them another chance, but I would talk with them all separately and ask why they chose what they did and if they would do differently as VP. Some people really don’t like mingling and going to late night events and if this is a requirement of the job you need to know.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        “I work in an industry where before you can be promoted to C-level you basically have to do the job and audition for it for 6 months.”

        I also worked for a firm that was big about proving you could do the job before you were promoted, but I honestly think it’s a bad idea. It’s crappy for the employee to be doing C-level work for 6 months without the title or pay that comes with it. Particularly if, after those 6 months of long hours with no extra pay, the organization decides you don’t get the promotion after all.

        It’s also pretty bad for the organization to have employees self-promote and try to take on tasks that they don’t have the authority or skills to handle. If Anna, Betty and Cathy all tried to do C-level planning for the company, that would be duplicated work and confuse everyone under them.

        If you’re going to promote someone, promote them. Same as if it was an outside hire: you can have a probationary period if you think it’s necessary, but you can’t hire someone as a VP to do C-level work and then promote them after 6 months. (Or at least, you shouldn’t.)

  42. Office Bday/Grief Etiquette?*

    My small department is very close. One of our traditions is bringing in a treat for someone’s birthday when they’re in office and holding up birthday signs during our online team meeting. This year, a few days before my birthday, I experienced a devastating and unexpected loss. My team sent me flowers, which was a very kind gesture. But, there was no acknowledgement of my birthday. Two weeks later, it’s my bosses birthday and we got him a treat, put birthday decorations in his office, held up signs, sent well wishes, etc etc.

    I’m curious how others would have handled this if they were in my team’s position. Is it considered inappropriate to acknowledge someone’s birthday if you know that person is going through something, or is it more rude to ignore it? In case it’s relevant, I made it clear to my boss that I didn’t want to think about the sad news while at work; I’m compartmentalizing, and while I’m at work, I’m acting fine.

    I think I worry that my team forgot about my birthday. which stings just a little given how close we are (possibly supported by timing; it would have made sense for them to celebrate it during the team meeting before I received the news, yet they didn’t…)

    1. londonedit*

      I do think it was rude of them to have done nothing for your birthday, but I think it’s possibly another one of those things where people just don’t know what to do or say, and they’re worried about saying the wrong thing, so they end up thinking the best thing to do is to do and say nothing. Or they thought ‘They probably don’t want people saying happy birthday when they’ve just suffered this awful loss, it’d be insensitive’.

      Of course, the sensible thing to do would have been to actually ask you what you wanted, but I expect they came down on the side of ‘maybe we shouldn’t mention it’. I’d see what happens next year – but you definitely are entitled to feel a bit sad about the fact that they didn’t acknowledge your birthday.

    2. Sherm*

      I’m sorry for your loss! I would have still personally acknowledged the birthday, saying something like “I know this isn’t the easiest time for you, but I still want to wish you a happy birthday and hope you have some joy today.”

      Last year, my department forgot my birthday, too. In my case, no other event happened shortly before it. They just forgot, even though our birthdays are on all our calendars. It did sting a little, but I’m sure it was just an oversight, and I chalk it up to people being error-prone creatures.

    3. Paint N Drip*

      People are so weird about grief, loss, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they chose not to celebrate you in an effort to celebrate you, ya know? Didn’t want to put the microscope on someone who might not be up for it?
      That sucks though, and I’m sorry you got the double-whammy of big thing and feeling forgotten on your birthday (or at least, not getting the joy and celebration that you expected and others are getting). Your feelings are so valid, but I’m guessing your coworkers are trying to support you and missing the mark.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        I don’t think they forgot. I think it was an attempt at sensitivity that didn’t land as intended. For example, I probably wouldn’t want to be the focus of a celebration shortly after a loss (since I would probably start crying in front of everyone), and I assume many others would feel the same. I know some people who no longer celebrate their birthday because the joy they felt in it was eclipsed by a tragedy on the same day.

        I think you could either ask someone who you trust to handle things well if you could have a belated birthday “now that you’re feeling better”, or chalk it up to good, if misplaced, intentions from a team that does care about you and sent you flowers when you experienced a loss.

    4. CTT*

      I’m so sorry! I will say that forgetting birthdays does sometimes happen, even on close teams. My team forgot my birthday last year, and I think it was one of those things where it just fell off the calendar and no one realized. I was disappointed (and had skipped breakfast in anticipation of the usual birthday bagels) and was a little wary this year, but they remembered like usual. It feels weird to say “wait a year and see what happens,” but I think that may be the way to go.

    5. Hyaline*

      My guess–they felt gutted for you and didn’t know what to do given your loss, and someone made the call that acknowledging your birthday would be painful for you so they chose not to. Was it the right choice? No, it probably wasn’t. However, I don’t think it was sheer oversight or trying to slight you–given that they cared enough to send flowers, they were probably just torn about what to do and made the wrong choice (for you–someone else might have appreciated it, which is probably where the choice came from–assuming others would prefer what you would prefer).

    6. Bereavement Bear*

      This actually happened to me a few months back. A work event happened to fall on a day that was my birthday and also my coworker’s (it’s a common birthday). My boss said she’d have to do something to acknowledge us on that day, since it was mandatory attendance/we couldn’t miss the event in order to celebrate. Unfortunately, less than 2 weeks before the work event I had to text my boss about my loss, saying that I’d try my best be there but I wasn’t totally sure under the circumstances. My co-worker and I didn’t get acknowledged on the day at all. This was good for me because due to the stress I had also developed a really horrible extreme cold type illness, so I wasn’t up for being noticed any more than I already was.

  43. Snarl Trolley*

    As the recent post gathering feedback on working while neurodivergent was so helpful, I’m wondering if there might be a similar one but focused on specific neurodivergencies – this recent one was wonderful for ADHD advice in particular!, but I’d love to hear more from Autists, AuDHDers, people with CPTSD, DCD, etc, in their own focused post too.

  44. Galactic Llama*

    What’s the best way to refer to my current job on a resume?

    I was hired as a Llama Tamer 2 years ago and then my entire department was moved to a new agency. My title is still the same but I have several shorter jobs on my resume already that have been 1-2 years and with this agency move, I think it’ll look like I left shortly again since both agencies are still around and running.

    Would it look bad if I wrote Llama Tamer 2022-present at Agency A (formerly B) or would that be confusing and I should split it up?

    1. Stuart Foote*

      I think the way you laid out is correct. That’s how I’ve typically seen it done. As long as it shows one position on the resume and you can quickly and easily explain what happened I think it will make sense to interviewers.

  45. BRR*

    My boss supports trying to get me a promotion but she wants to wait six months and I….well don’t. Looking for professional language to say that to her.

    I’m in an office worker position that is union. Our union contract says that when my job duties expand beyond my current job description, I can apply for a promotion. I’ve taken on some of my boss’ duties over the past year and I’m supposed to take over more things shortly. She has said that she wants me to be doing the newest duties for six months before we apply for the promotion “to have the strongest case possible” but my perspective is that I’ve already been doing more work over the past year without a raise so I don’t want to wait another six months while doing even more work. There’s also no information (written or from our experience) that waiting six months would improve the chances of it being approved.

    So the next time she says that we should wait six months, what’s the professional way to say, “I don’t want to wait six months. I should be compensated for the work that I’m doing now and I’m fine if HR denies the promotion?” If they deny it, these tasks would almost certainly fall back to my boss. I’m willing to die on this hill because my employer is terrible at promoting people, I’m fine with my current salary, and I have the job security of the union to say “if you’re giving me higher level tasks, you need to give me more money.”

    Additional background that will make this post too long to be interesting – my boss has way too much on her plate (a lot of that is her own fault) and desperately needs me to take on this additional work . Our HR approves/denies the promotion application and they are notoriously inconsistent about what is considered outside the scope of our current job descriptions. My union hasn’t been able to offer any guidance if waiting six months would improve the chances of it being approved because HR is so inconsistent. My boss has a habit of being more thorough than necessary and I think this definitely falls into that category. The application doesn’t require for me to say how long I’ve been doing the new work.

    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      I don’t think you need a magic phrase to put your agenda. It seems like facts are on your side. You have my permission to push back on some of the extra work (though I wouldn’t push back on everything!) or take forever to do it/leave exactly at 5:00 if it’s not done.

      You can push for an exact reason for the “wait six months” thing. What is the logical reason. Did you just get a huge raise and they only do raises once a year? Do they want the promotion to line up with some annual calendar? Is there a high risk you can mess up many projects, so they want to test you a little before giving you full rein?

      If there is no real reason, I’d play it cool and say I’m not really interested in a promotion anymore if it’s going to be so much hassle and act accordingly. I mean, if there is so much pushback, then maybe the promotion isn’t coming ever anyways

    2. Paint N Drip*

      A) is everyone union at your job? If your boss isn’t used to dealing with the union, she may have genuinely forgotten what the contract says, and it’s a-ok to remind her
      B) uncharitably, YEAH OF COURSE she’d rather you “practice” for as long as possible before paying you more! That’s not in YOUR best interest though. Unless there is some kind of negative of applying for the promotion and getting rejected (like, you can’t apply again for X months) literally why wouldn’t you apply??
      C) I’d push back. Respectfully, at a good time, with your ducks in a row, but I would. Worst case seems to be you keep your same job and maybe your boss is a little peeved short-term, small potatoes if you’re protected by a union.

    3. Ginger Cat Lady*

      I’m so OVER the idea that you have to be doing the higher level work before you can get paid at a higher level or promoted. OVER IT. It’s a myth that companies use to underpay people.
      Waiting 6 *more* months when you have already been doing the higher level work for a YEAR is just trying to sweep it under the rug and hope that you keep doing higher level work for lower level pay.

    4. HonorBox*

      You have the protection of a union and you have protection in the fact that you’ve been doing work outside the scope of your job description for the past year, plus more shortly. I think you can tell your boss that these additional duties are not within your job description, so they can support your current case or you need to stick to the duties that you’re being paid to do.

  46. GarbageCostume*

    I’m just really confused about a Halloween costume at work yesterday.

    So I have a coworker who is a diehard Trump supporter and won’t shut up, even if he knows people disagree or don’t want to talk politics. Also a conspiracy theorist and believing some things that are blatantly false. If he was a woman, I would have suspected he might be Kevina from the letter earlier this week. He even sends unsolicited emails about these things to whoever DOES engage on these topics. Whatever, views are views, and people have started to ignore him when it’s non-work related stuff to talk about. He was told previously not to talk so much, or about controversial things.

    His costume? He got as close as he could to Trump’s sanitation worker outfit from that social media stunt as he could, and wore that. I can’t even. Talk about going against the spirit of the rules at work!

    I just think he’s also going to be insufferable either way the election goes.

    1. Kesnit*

      Was he just wearing coveralls and a reflective vest? Or did he paint his face orange and wear a wig?

      If it was just “sanitation worker” costume, ignore it. Don’t give him attention.

      If he was “Trump as sanitation worker,” yeah, I would say that is out of bounds.

    2. WestSideStory*

      This seems very much in character for him. Try to ignore him – people like that live for the confrontation and the drama.

      It’s gonna be a tough few weeks and I truly sympathize with anyone who has to deal with unwanted proselytizing of any sort.

    3. Unkempt Flatware*

      I’d throw my trash in his office assuming that’s what he was going for! You were just playing along!

  47. Small Business Growing Pains*

    I work for a small, family-owned consulting company that’s been in business for 40+ years. We expanded heavily during the pandemic and now have several branch offices spread across multiple states and about double the staff as we had pre-pandemic. The owners are in their early 70s and are clearly checked out. Like we’re talking endless international vacations, going MIA for weeks at a time, and adopting a head-in-the-sand attitude about things like technology upgrades, support staff hiring, and other sorely needed improvements.

    The owners’ adult children are currently the COO and CFO of the company and have been steering the ship for the last couple of years to the best of their ability, but it just hasn’t been good enough. Deadlines are routinely dropped and we are all stretched thin trying to navigate the company’s explosive growth. And the owners still have the final say about everything, so there are lots of delays for any basic requests, even small things like ordering more copy paper (!!). There are rumors about a succession plan that may or may not be announced in the coming months, essentially formally passing the company to COO/CFO.

    I have faith in the COO/CFO and I think the company will be better off once the owners have officially stepped aside, but in the meantime, it’s been torture. I like my job and I’ve done well here and there’s lots of career growth for me. But when I lose half a day’s work due to outdated technology failures and have to deal with admin/training work that really should be someone else’s job (but we can’t hire support staff because the owners say so…), it makes me question what the heck I’m doing here. Any advice for holding on just a little bit longer?

    1. Sherm*

      I would job search. All you have are rumors of a succession that may or may not happen. And even though the COO/CFO are doing their best, who knows what they will be like as owners? A worst-case scenario is that they will feel like it’s their turn to check out after trying to steer the ship for so long.

      I think that job searching also is an answer for your question, actually. You may feel more empowered, and the distraction may help you think less about your current situation.

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I second the search – job searching does have a way of putting into stark relief both the positives and negatives of your current situation. Launching a search does NOT have to mean that you leave! Maybe what you’re seeing out there makes you want to stay and stick it out. Maybe you find something outstanding, or just see how many other opportunities can offer you similar positives to your current gig. Maybe it just keeps you occupied from the bigger drama for a while!
        Solidarity, because my boss is in their 70s and is similarly checked out but vital & holding everything up.

      2. Kay*

        You have to job search. I have a client going through something similar right now and it has now been a year and a half! Things have gotten so bad they are now willing to quit with nothing lined up – and even they aren’t having to deal with copy paper issues.

        You will feel better when you have options, because right now your option is to work with whatever hand they deal you and that is no way to live.

    2. BigLawEx*

      I’d start a job search….
      I have a friend whose parents own a business (started in the late ’60s). They were going to hand over the business some twenty years ago. Turns out they overspent on vacations, etc., and can’t retire, so they take an income but do a half-a*sed job running things because, for them, it doesn’t have to be an ongoing concern forever.

  48. BellaStella*

    Please all, send good vibes. HR has failed a few of my colleagues and I dramatically. The missing stair on our wider team, he who filed a complaint over a year ago (but he cannot find documents because he cannot read or search email) has brought it up again and I was blindsided yesterday. I have never seen these documents. HR resolved this a year ago. Tho, in 2024 we no longer work together directly. Also my manager enables this stuff and gaslights me all the time. Yes I know I need to leave.

    Maybe share some joys of your good HR and good management please?

  49. sigh*

    I have completely forgotten how to ‘people’. Pandemic followed by almost fully remote role for 3+ years, combined with barely passable social skills under ideal circumstances has left me utterly bewildered in my new (3x week in person) role. The role is an internal transfer, but all new people, new scope, new culture, and I’m kinda at a loss even 3 months in.

    Tips or empathy would be appreciated.

    1. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Lots of empathy! I think many of us are still some degree of socially awkward post-pandemic/in our weird society.

      I saw a meme recently on how humans meowing to cats back and forth served a purpose of reinforcing shared tribe/pack behaviour, and someone chimed in that small talk between people has the same point – it’s easy to dismiss it as shallow and stupid but the “how are you” “fine” “what about this weather hey” exchanges are a way to indicate that we are safe among each other. So my tip would be to take advantage of practicing small talk, think of it as throwing a ball between each other, it’s less about content than tone. I’m also a big proponent of smiling (controversial take on the internet! ) I think it’s a great signal of friendliness. In the past I found Miss Manners etiquette guides helpful for social scripts and navigating other humans. Best of luck – it’ll get better with time!

      1. Nonanon*

        The comments section from the “my personal life is none of my coworkers business” thread a few days-months-years ago reinforced this; badgering is one thing, but “did you grow up around here?” is a way to make connection. Small talk and follow up questions are your best bet; “wow that cold front really brought in a lot of rain” > “right, all I want to do is stay home with a book” > “oooh, what are you reading right now?”

        Best of luck; I know my social skills have slipped to the point I kind of want to return to office just to reinforce them.

    3. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

      All the empathy! I wasn’t great at peopling beforehand, but doing remote call center work since then meant a huge drop in the number of normal conversations I have, period. I make a specific effort to be kind to cashiers, both to practice and because that job especially sucks, but that may still be the only interaction I have that day.

    4. Tio*

      Small talk topics – get them ready. Weather, restaurants, bland things you do for fun, asking about people’s hobbies. Have some questions and answers ready. Keep eyes on how often people are talking and who’s talking to who. Who seems to match your personality, who seems a little too loud/quiet for your tastes. Who does functions similar to yours that you can talk work tips with.

    5. cmdrspacebabe*

      I really believe socializing is a skill that can be learned! I had a similar pandemic experience – minimal interaction for 3ish years. After that, my partner started working at a bar most nights, and I started just going to chill there with a book 3-4 evenings a week rather than sitting at home alone (very out of character for me, even pre-pandemic – I’m a neurodivergent introvert!). This wasn’t an *intentional* move to practice socializing, but that’s exactly what happened. Being in proximity to people naturally leads to conversations, and the more I was there, the more confident I felt. It’s been a little over a year since then and I am better at socializing, and happier doing it, than I ever was pre-pandemic. I can easily strike up conversations with new people, I don’t struggle with small talk like I used to, and I come out of most interactions with my coworkers feeling like I have Successfully Human’d at them.

      TL;DR: Peopleing is a skill, and skills can be learned by practice. I would try finding a hobby group in your area, or sign up for art classes, or anything that’ll get you out of the house and around people on a regular basis – even just being a regular at a local bar/restaurant/coffee shop. It’s anxiety-inducing at first, but I’ve found it just keeps getting easier. I recently started working from the office again after 4 years remote, and I have been shocked to find that I actually LIKE working around people now. Super weird.

    6. Qwerty*

      Ease into it. Personally I find larger groups easier because you can quietly hang out while getting used to people again. Join in on a group going to lunch occasionally or taking their lunch to the break room together, or even just get the occsionally cup of coffee/tea/water in the office kitchen.

      Accept yourself. If you are weird, be weird. If you are serious, be serious. People will accept you once they get used to you as long as you are always kind and polite.

      Remote made a lot of people lose social skills. Good news is that they come back or you learn new ones. My office currently has people who enjoy their 1 day a week in the office and are stuck in a debate between coming in more frequently but not wanting the commute.

  50. Someone who is really smart with computers, usually, but feels really dumb right now*

    Am I allowed to ask for help with MS Excel?

    I frequently open a spreadsheet that I have downloaded from my businesses online store in CSV format to import into my inventory tracking program to get orders sent out.

    I used to have a box that would pop up when I opened the spreadsheet warning me about leading zeros asking if I want to convert them to numbers, which takes away the leading zeros, but I need the leading zeros because they are zip codes.

    Someone else used my computer and told the check box to stop asking and convert all of my numbers to numbers in the future. I can’t figure out how to turn this back on. All I can find are instructions on how to add the leading zeros, which I already know how to do because I did it for 2.5 years before my computer was replaced.

    The only thing I have thought it to restore my Excel back to factory settings or whatever, but I don’t really know how to do that.

    1. noname today*

      Open excel
      Go to options
      Go to data—third block there has check boxes around all default settings (remove leading zeros is one you can check/uncheck)

      Moving forward, set that column as a zip by:

      Highlight the entire column
      In the drop down where it says general or number, change it to special and choose zip code (or zip+4)—whichever is more appropriate.

      1. Someone who is really smart with computers, usually, but feels really dumb right now*

        Wow. Thank you so much. I have been struggling with that the past few weeks. It’s a huge timesaver for me.

        For the bit of advice you gave moving forward, I don’t think I can utilize that since I’m always dealing with a new, unique set of data. Like I download new info, do the things I need and then export into the inventory program. So anything I tell Excel to do regarding that spreadsheet will only stay with the spreadsheet, right? I wish there was a way to get it to automatically do a number of steps, as there are some things I have to manually do to the spreadsheet to get it ready to import into my program.

        1. noname today*

          Can you use an old, pre-formatted once and just delete the cell data and then copy-paste the new data set in? I do that with my sheets (hence the going forward—cuz it’s always a zip/number/dollar amount, etc)

          1. Someone who is really smart with computers, usually, but feels really dumb right now*

            ooo I might have to try that.

            Thank you for your help!

            May your socks never be wrinkled, and coffee never too hot.

      2. WFH4VR*

        Use the Import Data function in excel to convert the csv file before you open it. Here are instructions:
        Microsoft Excel can use data produced by other computer applications that is saved in the text-based Comma-Separated Value file format. Excel knows how to convert the lines of comma-, space- or tab-separated information within CSV files into standard spreadsheet rows and columns. For instance, Excel will strip leading zeros from numbers and dates because they are not mathematically significant. You can keep the leading zeros in CSV files by using Excel’s Text Import Wizard.

        Launch Excel Spreadsheet. Click the “Data” tab. Click the “From Text” option icon.
        Click the “From Text” icon. Use the file manager to locate the CSV file you want import.
        Select the CSV file with the mouse. Click the “Import” button.
        Click the “Delimited” radio button in the Text Import Wizard. Deselect the “Tab,” “Semicolon” and “Space” boxes. Click the “Next” button.
        Check the box next to “Comma.” Click “Next.”
        Select the column that contains the data with leading zeros. Click the “Text” radio button to select it. Do the same for each column with leading zeros that you want to retain.
        Click the “Finish” button.
        Click the “OK” button in the “Input Data” dialog box.

  51. Leaving academia*

    This is really more of a rant, but I told my mom I need a thinner/not for the dead of winter blazer for networking and eventually interviews. We went to a boutique near her house, and she told the woman working that I needed “grownup clothes”. I’m in my mid-30s! I know that my parents’ lives are just generally more formal than mine, but they are also generally more formal than most people! Wearing a (basic pattern, properly fitting, not threadbare) sweater is not less grownup than a blazer, but it’s definitely not always weather appropriate!

    However, I do know that office formality norms have changed, especially in the last 5 years. Am I right in assuming that when I say I need a blazer for “informational interviews” and actually interviews, I do literally mean a blazer? I feel like a faux leather jacket or cardigan might *technically* fill the same outfit function on a day-to-day basis but not for interviews.

    1. Tech Industry Refugee*

      Also in my mid-3os. I don’t own a blazer, as I am an aspiring bodybuilder and naturally have linebacker shoulders. I’ve been hired after wearing cardigans over a nice shell or Calvin Klein dress (those typical workwear kinds of dresses).

      I’m sure your wardrobe is fine.

      Something about women “having” to wear typical menswear (blazers/pantsuits) rubs me the wrong way. Obviously I don’t care if people choose to wear them, but it’s an outdated concept.

      1. Leaving academia*

        Well, my wardrobe is definitely not always climate appropriate! I have very little work appropriate clothing for summer, and (presumably) far too much for midwest winters!

        I hear you on the male default, although tailored clothing can be pretty feminine. Jackets aren’t necessarily men’s wear inspired, either.

    2. The grey cat*

      This is highly dependent on your industry, level, and what level you’d like to be. For example, I work in tech in the Bay Area, which is famously casual and male-dominated. I’m a woman of color. My male colleagues wear t-shirts, but I wear tailored jackets with jeans so that I’m at least slightly elevated. I’m also on the more senior end, lead projects, and want to climb the ladder, so I want to be visually perceived as having a fair bit of authority. In an ideal world, these kinds of things wouldn’t matter, but anecdotally I think they do.

      1. Leaving academia*

        I’m hoping to find data science jobs in the mid Atlantic south, but not in a specific industry. I grew up here, so I am actually fairly familiar with the increased level of formality compared to my time as an academic mathematician in the Midwest. I also avoided tshirts and jeans when teaching as a graduate student and postdoc, which certainly wasn’t the case for everyone.

        For professor/instructor/lecturer positions, people are far more likely to wear business clothes to an interview than to work. It’s actually a common complaint that everyone knows when you have an interview at the big, annual conference because you are in interview clothes!

    3. Paint N Drip*

      It could be a blazer, a nice cardigan (some are way to casual IMO), or a structured jacket in a more casual form (I’m really into sweatshirt material sewn into a blazer, they’re soft and cozy but still look put-together without crossing into uptight – for summer ponte or similar). We are also in the modern world where genderless expression is on the rise, so if you’re more comfortable in a structured shirt, vest, or whatever, you could also go for that (sorry I have zero recommendations here, I’m all roundy bits)

      IDK about your industry standards, but a leather jacket or motorcycle jacket (regardless of material, just the look) would not pass muster for my industry. Even the casual cardigans (very thin material or very chunky, very wide neck, boldly patterned, too long, too flowy/open) would not be business enough for me, but they do seem to be acceptable for others (thinking about other professional women I see like teachers, DMV employees, tax preparers, etc.)

      1. Leaving academia*

        It’s literally a blue motorcycle style jacket my mom and I keep discussing! She gave it to me years ago, she really does have good fashion sense, but even if it did visually work, it doesn’t fix the comfort issue of seasonally appropriate.

        I think my thought process, from applying to professor jobs and reading on this website, is leaning more “traditional” business/business casual for interviewing than work?

    4. HannahS*

      Depends on your field, I think. Medicine has certainly become WAY more casual since the pandemic. A blazer or a nice cardigan is about as formal as it gets, for the Gen X and Millenial group (who are the majority now.) I interviewed for medical school in a suit, interviewed for residency in a blazer and trousers, and interviewed for my subspecialty in a blouse, within less than a decade. I don’t think that a leather jacket occupies the same space as a nice cardigan or unstructured blazer, because it’s outerwear.

    5. Unkempt Flatware*

      Ha I’m completely stuck on the “my daughter needs big girl clothes” thing. This is what my parents both did/do to me. I was the baby but never allowed to grow up. The first three apartments I lived in, my mom loved to tell people they each were my ‘first apartment’ even though she said that about the other two. My dad used to try to make me pose for pictures if he saw me in my work clothes like I was a child playing dress up.

      1. Leaving academia*

        Oh wow, that’s extreme! There’s certainly some weirdness living in my hometown for the first time since high school, but yikes! I’ve had the opposite funny experience, where people who have known me through my hobby/sport since I was 8 seem to be more aware that I’m not fresh out of college than people I’ve met in the last few years (outside of work).

        Honestly, I can see some (stem?) academics referring to business or business casual as “grownup clothes”, mostly in a tongue-in-cheek way, but it’s not a great attitude inside academia…didn’t think it spread outside.

    6. Kay*

      Your instincts are correct for most industries – go with a blazer. A cardigan would work for day to day in the office, but a leather jacket would be solidly in the after hours work event (like a sporting event or other outdoor event).

    7. PandaPia*

      When I interview I do notice who dresses up and who doesn’t but the level between tailored shirt with cardigan vs suit jacket doesn’t register with me. And I won’t pass on a good candidate just because they didn’t dress up(part of my industry tho), it just impresses me. So I think unless you are going for high-level management positions a nice shirt and a cardigan or a nice sweater are totally fine.

  52. No Tribble At All*

    Argh, I need some motivation. I’ve had two big projects recently that had to pause for things out of my control, and it’s so draining. I’m having trouble focusing because I feel like… well I don’t trust that we won’t need to roll this back. Any advice? Also, it’s Friday, and it’s hot out, and I want to nap.

  53. Susie*

    I had a rough conversation with someone I manage and I’d love some feedback on next steps.
    This staff member has a very narrow definition of success, both for herself and the people she works with. When her collaborators aren’t living up to that definition, she will say mean things, walk out of the meeting space, and generally project a feeling of anger.

    When we met, I told her that it was her job to ensure meetings were a collaborative space and not her job to tell people when they weren’t meeting her expectations. She asked how else was she supposed to get them to do what she needed them to do. While she is not wrong in her assessment of her collaborators, I told her that she would not be successful with her goals if she did not work toward building a collaborative space. I gave her two concrete goals that I hoped would help her streamline her thinking and help her feel less overwhelmed in these collaboration meetings. I also reiterated the structures in place to help her collaborators bring the necessary information to these meetings so she didn’t have to feel like she had to fill in the gaps.

    This is someone who has worked at the org for over two decades. We were colleagues for years before I was promoted to run the department. I don’t think any prior supervisor had directly told her this behavior is inappropriate. She has even praised prior supervisors for letting her unload on them. This also a union position, so the PIP process isn’t relevant. There are some formal feedback systems, but in order to go this route, I need to try coaching first. Since the behavior has gone on so long, most of her colleagues just treat her like a missing stair (that was certainly the case when we were colleagues). However, there is one who is frustrated.

    What strategies have worked for you in the past in a similar situation? What should I be thinking about when planning where to support and where to draw a line?

    1. ferrina*

      I’m confused.

      Obviously her behavior is a problem that needs to be addressed. It sounds like you gave her feedback on that. Next, you need to manage to that feedback. Observe how she handles a frustrating situation. Maybe you need to assign yourself to a meeting or a project so you can observe first hand and coach in the moment. Give her praise when she handles a frustrating situation well. Talk her through her next steps. If she’s not changing, take next steps.

      The part I’m confused about is this: “she is not wrong in her assessment of her collaborators”. Are you saying that they don’t do their jobs? Yeah, that’s an issue! She identified a real problem and is solving it in the only way she knows how to solve it. If you are telling her she can’t do the behavior (and to be clear, she can’t), does that mean that she also can’t solve the problem? Do you want her to accept that people won’t meet the expectations that they need to? Sometimes that is part of the solution- “yes, I know they do a bad job, and yes, I’ve made my viewpoint clear, but our hands are tied and we need to work around that”. But sometimes more is needed. If you are in a meeting where someone didn’t do what they needed to do, how do you get what you need from them? Can she utilize the same strategy? I once worked with someone so bad that I refused to let any of my direct reports work with them alone, because she would railroad them and hang them out to dry. You need to make sure that she’s able to get what she needs.

  54. OneBean TwoBean*

    Personally, I’m feeling anxious about next week’s presidential election. As a new boss, is there anything I can do to support my staff next week? Our office probably has about an 80/20 liberal/conservative split.

    1. Paris Geller*

      Don’t schedule meetings if you can avoid it. Realize people’s productivity may be down that week, doesn’t mean it will be forever so give people some grace.

      1. ferrina*

        Yeah, avoid meeting on both Tuesday and Wednesday. If you have remote people, don’t ask for cameras on. Definitely don’t plan to make any big decisions next week.

        1. JustaTech*

          And if folks request to do something more physical than their usual job (sorting files, organizing storage closets, etc), if it’s at all possible, let them. A lot of people are trying to stay away from the news/social media and it’s easier to do that if you’re moving around.
          (Also helps re-direct some nervous energy.)

          1. Panicked*

            I’ve already organized a supply closet, reorganized our kitchen, and cleaned out another closet at work this week because I am having trouble sitting at my desk. I’ve already scheduled a workout for Tuesday and Wednesday because I’ll absolutely need to move.

    2. tabloidtainted*

      Give everyone the week off? Only half joking. I would kill for at least Wednesday off, if not Wednesday through Friday. No matter what, it’s going to be a rough week.

    3. Busy Middle Manager*

      Don’t talk about politics at all and let people vote. You’d be surprised how, even if you think everyone is the same party as you, how they differ on so many issues. You will inevitably get into a disagreement or create tension because someone will disagree with you on something but be afraid to admit it.

      Let people view work as a safe space from everything going on in the world.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yes let people vote!
        If your organization has any kind of “leave to vote” policy send it out to the whole team as a reminder “hey, you can take two hours to vote” or whatever it is.
        But other than that, you’ve got to keep your thoughts to yourself, and encourage your staff to do the same.

    4. spcepickle*

      I would make your work space as neutral as possible. I also have split in my office and we are pretty hard core about shutting down political talk. It helps that I work for State government and it is strictly forbidden to use State resources “for the purpose of assisting a campaign for election of a person to an office or for the promotion of or opposition to a ballot proposition”. So we do not allow politic talk even in our common spaces or during breaks.

      If nothing about your work will change based on the election make sure people know that. If things might change (Washington is getting a new governor so we have some unknowns at my office) try to be open about those and make sure people know the different paths (as neutrally again as possible) moving forward. Make sure they know how you will continue to support them. One of our big questions is about work from home policies – so we have talked through several scenarios in our office. I have answered as many questions as I can while being clear I do not know what will happen but this is what I know I can control.

      I am also considering how I can give people grace over the next week or so. I am also very anxious, sad, disappointed, scared . . . about the upcoming election – so knowing that other people have those feelings and that they might need some time to process them or their work output might be less this next week. I am okay with that.

    5. OneBean TwoBean*

      These are helpful – thank you! And please keep them coming.

      I was already planning on giving people some grace on having a not-super-productive week but this makes me realize that it might be good to specifically call it out.

      Especially in an office that skews heavily in one direction politically it can be easy to slide into group fretting and assuming that everyone feels the same as you. I want to avoid that both for people who feel differently and for people who just need a break. But I also don’t want to minimize the fact that people have real, well-founded fears about their fundamental rights and safety, myself included.

      1. HonorBox*

        I loved the suggestion about allowing people some physical things they can do.

        As corny as this sounds, is there anything that is more fun that you can offer to keep people’s mind off of going to social media, listening to the news, etc.? We have music playing in our lobby, and right now we’re outside of “open” hours and I hear someone blaring a Christmas song. Could you play music, not even holiday music? Could you do some sort of trivia where you’re sending out questions throughout the days following Tuesday? Could you bring in lunch and watch a movie? While they’re kind of silly ideas, if you can offer ways to keep people engaged in something other than results-watching, while they’re also doing their work through those activities, that might be really helpful. It’ll at least be something lighter they can focus on.

    6. EA*

      We have time off to vote specifically mentioned in our time off policy! Basically, it doesn’t count against our PTO and we have the flexibility to go vote at any time during the day. It’s worth reminding people if you have or can create that type of flexibility.

    8. OneBean TwoBean*

      Unfortunately we don’t have time off allowed to vote in our policies, but I can unofficially turn a blind eye to long lunches or whatever. My state has ample early voting options, though, so I’m reasonably sure it shouldn’t be an issue.

    9. Yes*

      You are a good human.

      If you guys are in-office and have a freezer, bring in a bunch of ice cream and some paper bowls and let people know it’s there. I wouldn’t have a “gathering” to eat it — I’m guessing group activities may be too much for very anxious people — just tell people to help themselves.

    10. Ann*

      My HR just emailed yesterday reminding everyone that A) we can take time off to vote, B) our sick time can be used for mental health, and C) we have an EAP. Can your company sick time be used for mental health? If so, might be good to let people know (preferably before the election so no one interprets this as a sign of your opinions about the result).

  55. frenchblue*

    My organization just really, really fumbled an onboarding for a new staff manager, Meg, and I feel terrible for her. The Director overseeing Meg’s position was responsible for letting our HR Trainer know her start date (for orientation), getting her office set up with a phone and computer, letting the Building Manager know to produce a keycard for her, and assigning an assistant to help her out one day a week. NONE of this happened. The HR trainer was told that Meg needed orientation *after* she’d already started, her office was completely bare with no computer or phone, she had no keycard and no assistant. So on her first day, she was literally walked to an empty office and told to wait for HR, who had other important meetings scheduled for the whole morning. She sat there with no idea what to do. She couldn’t even read the staff handbook because she didn’t have a computer yet.
    Part of this is because the Director’s EA is an absolute nightmare, and she flat-out refused to help with Meg, claiming she already had “too much” work. This Director has no backbone at all, and lets his EA run wild, causing all sorts of problems and drama throughout the organization. Regardless, I feel like Meg is going to quit if something doesn’t change. It’s been three weeks and she is still feeling completely lost. She was in a meeting with me and another person yesterday, and she was almost in tears as she told us she has no idea what we were talking about because no one has shown her our most basic processes.
    I guess my question is, do I have any standing to tell HR how badly this was fumbled? Some of them likely know, but I’m not sure if they’re seeing how bad and unprofessional this is, especially from Meg’s point of view. She is highly experienced and she has handled all of this with the most grace you could expect, but I feel like she’s probably already looking for other jobs.

    2. ferrina*

      I don’t think the goal should be to let people know that Meg is a flight risk- that would probably undermine her further. Instead, there are a few options on how you can help her onboarding get better:

      1. Do you personally know someone in HR? Can you grab them and let them know that Meg hasn’t had her onboarding and she still needs X, Y and Z? The point of this conversation isn’t to complain about what hasn’t happened, but to take action to make sure it does happen.
      2. Help Meg yourself with what you can help with. Can you give her a quick walkthrough of your software? Are there materials you can send her?
      3. Let Meg know what a typical onboarding looks like and who is responsible for which elements. Every company does onboarding differently, so she doesn’t know what support she’s supposed to get or who to reach out to to get those things. Tell her what her onboarding should include so she knows what she’s entitled to (again, not complaining, but informing) and who is the contact people. If there are multiple people involved, you can say “Grandboss is responsible for coordinating, but HR is the one that hands you the key card. I might start with HR if I were you.”

      As for your question “Do I have standing….?”, well, it depends. Probably not. I’ve seen many people, including HR, really underestimate the value of onboarding and blame poor onboarding on the new hire (“they should have known to ask us about X!” um, how? did you hire a psychic?). It sounds like you are low enough on the org chart that your complaint likely won’t make a difference. You can mention that it didn’t go smoothly, but don’t ever mention that Meg might be looking for new jobs. There’s too high a risk that someone will hear that as “Meg is planning to leave” and force her out (even if she wasn’t planning to leave).

      1. Paint N Drip*

        I’d really like to second the idea to not undermine Meg any further – point out how badly she’s been treated yes, but let TPTB come to their own conclusions about that.

    3. A Book about Metals*

      Things happen, and so I can understand there was a lack of communication and so she wasn’t ready for her first day.

      But what’s been happening for these three weeks that Meg still feels lost? You’re putting alot on the EA, but if the Director is Meg’s boss, it’s really his responsibility to make sure her onboarding is going smoothly. He needs to take a more active role here.

      1. MsM*

        And if he’s going to offload everything on the horrible EA or just generally be unavailable, maybe it’s better for Meg if she gets out sooner rather than later.

    4. WellRed*

      I think you could say something but frame it as Meg expressed her frustrations rather than injecting your opinion (valid though they be) about the botched process or fears she’s a flight risk.

    5. GettingStarted*

      I’ve had several jobs where I didn’t have a computer for the first 1-2 weeks and another where the entire rest of the office was at a trade show my entire first week. Three weeks is stretching it, although I did have one company that slow walked onboarding tasks across the first 6 weeks because they felt it would be too overwhelming to do it all at once and their official position was that no one is really productive forat least six months so why rush (I never understood this, but I’ve done several very short term contracts where I’d produce polished work in 3-4 weeks so I was used to getting thrown in the deep end).

      Are there any materials that you can give Meg to read that might help at all? That’s more-or-less how I survived at some of the jobs referenced above.

    6. Chauncy Gardener*

      Yeow. This has happened to me when I started at new jobs and boy, it sure doesn’t sit too well. I started as a controller and had NO COMPUTER for over a week!
      This is why I have always placed such importance on tightly coordinated onboarding for everyone. Just because you’ve accepted a job doesn’t mean that offers/interview requests/etc still aren’t coming in. There’s no loyalty to the team/company/manager yet and all you do is sit there and think about what a mistake this feels like.
      I did leave that company after three weeks because I got a better offer whilst sitting around with nothing to do.
      That being said, at least offer to take Meg to lunch or something?

  56. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

    Higher education folks, how do questions at a second round interview differ from the first round?
    I had a nice interview this week for an entry-level position but was surprised to learn it has multiple rounds. None of the positions I hired for in the past had more than one interview, so I’m not sure how they differ, if at all. Hopeful I advance to the next one!

    1. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

      This can vary widely but in my experience, the second round tends to be more conversational and less rigid the way an interview can be. Good luck!

    2. Tech Industry Refugee*

      2nd round, be prepared to meet with multiple people, either at once or separately in blocks. Have a long list of questions that you are genuinely curious about, so that you don’t run out as you speak with people. Have some questions about how you can help improve communications, make people’s jobs easier, and the like.

    4. NobodyHasTimeForThis*

      I’ve seen it go both ways – I’ve had a second round ask me an awful lot of the same questions, because it was just a different group of people but they wanted to hear the answers first-hand.

      I have been on committees where the first round is in the department and the second round is the wider university contacts the person might be working with.

    5. SoftFundedAcademic*

      In my experience, if not talking tenure-track, first round is typically a panel interview with the search committee. Questions tends to be pretty structured. Second round is typically with the hiring official (who is sometimes but not always the direct supervisor for the position) and tends to be more conversational. (And when I’m the hiring official in the second round, I usually reserve half the time to answer the candidate’s questions.)

  57. Higher Ed Kitten Party*

    I applied for a job 6 weeks ago, had two rounds of interviews, and didn’t get the job. I am both relieved and very disappointed! Relieved because my fiance and I have A Plan (get married in February, honeymoon in May, move 30 miles south of where the new job would be in September, start a family soon after) and the new job would have made The Plan much more complicated (and would have resulted in a hellish commute). Disappointed because it would have been a great job, with a raise, in the area I want to be in long-term (community and technical colleges).

    I like my current job a lot, The Plan meshes well with the office culture and benefits, so really there isn’t much to grieve, but I am still a little disappointed.

    1. WellRed*

      Maybe it’s because I’m past the point of Ambition and Upward Progress, but with all the personal stuff you have on tap, I’d be happy to stick with the current and known.

  58. Reluctant Consultant*

    I have a direct report who regularly mispronounces a couple of words that we use regularly in our work that are admittedly kind of hard to say. Previously she was struggling to say them, and now she seems to have just dropped the middle. Think saying “entreprenship” instead of “entrepreneurship.” She has really improved overall in her presentation skills, and I’m a little worried about making her get in her head over something so small (I think it’s always clear what word she is intending), but then again I think some clients might judge her a bit for the mispronunciation. Thoughts?

    1. ferrina*

      Is it actually impacting her impact or the way clients treat her?

      You probably can let this be. People have different ways of speaking, whether it’s accents, tonality or quirky ways of pronouncing words (think Benedict Cumberbatch trying to say “penguin”). If she’s knowledgeable and otherwise well-spoken, clients will generally ignore this in favor of the content that she’s sharing.
      The one exception is in fields with technical terminology. Someone mispronouncing technical terminology can be a giveaway that they have limited exposure and don’t actually know how the thing is pronounced. That’s where you have to make sure that you are saying it clearly enough to make it sound like you are very familiar with it (er, not that I’ve desperately looked up how to pronounce certain terms 10 minutes before a client meeting). But it doesn’t sound like that’s happening here at all.

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        technical stuff – yeah, good point. We still tell a story about a guy we were interviewing who pronounced the package “nginx” as ‘in-jinx’ instead of ‘engine-ex’.

        1. JustaTech*

          I used to have a French-Canadian coworker who pronounced “metabolism” in the strangest way. Wouldn’t have been a thing except that he was in the middle of a multi-year project on cellular metabolism and it was driving the rest of the team up the wall.

          I finally asked another French-Canadian coworker if this was a regional accent thing, and he said no, it was just that one guy and he was wrong.

        2. Another Kristin*

          once heard someone pronounce MySQL as “My Squirrel”, though that was probably a joke

      2. allathian*

        Yeah, this is a tough one. I have a few linguistic pet peeves, one of them is the pronunciation of nuclear as nuculer. I know it’s standard in some Southern accents and try to be understanding even if it grates on my last nerve. But recently I watched a documentary on the cold war, and they interviewed a British nuclear physicist who pronounced it like that and I nearly quit watching because it annoyed me so much.

    2. Angstrom*

      Maybe start by approaching it not as “you’re saying it wrong” but as “I’ve noticed our customers pronounce it like X” or “pronouncing it like X is more common in our industry.”

    3. Person from the Resume*

      If she’s presenting to clients and getting it wrong, I do think it is your job as manager help her correct her pronunciation.

      Can she use google to find the correct pronunciation and listen to it before client presentations and repeat after it?

      If it’s a medical thing like a speech impediment, I would consider it an accommodation to let it go.

      The problem is if there’s no other speech impediment, people/clients will think she doesn’t know better. (I can’t tell; does she think she’s getting it right now?) And for common words in your industry that makes her look not qualified and a source not to be trusted.

    4. N'Mousse*

      I actually think it is important to pronounce things correctly, especially if she is presenting and especially if she is presenting to clients.

      I just ran into this situation not too long ago and it ended up being rather embarrassing for us all. They couldn’t pronounce a number of pretty common industry terms and butchered a few others, so our group honestly wasn’t quite sure what they were saying 100% of the time. The last time it happened they pronounced a word like it would be in another language that I also happen to speak and have struggled with those 2 words myself – it clicked I thought! So as they are muttering excuses about always having a hard time with that word I relate and say “Oh, this must not be your native language!” (admittedly, not my finest moment-I was excited about someone else knowing the more obscure language and not thinking straight) and they proceed to say “Oh no, it is, I’m just having to learn all these new words”. It was mortifying for everyone – not only my misstep, but also, we didn’t really ever figure out what they were trying to tell us about their company’s services! At an event where they were trying to sell their new services!

  59. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    My company has moved buildings and we have already had desk drama 1 week in. It’s an all-hot desking, clean desk, “fluid and dynamic” open plan area – the usual BS about how this will make us all collaborate more etc etc. But it’s a pretty building in a great location so a definite upgrade. Now while it is hot desking you can book a desk on our internal system, but people rarely do.

    We were assigned zones to sit based on our team, and my small team plonked themselves on some free desks. A woman came along and told us “just so you know” these desks were reserved for a particular group. Then she made one of my team move so she could sit at “her” desk. She had so much attitude about it that I went into ultra polite mode and said in my mist helpful tone of voice that perhaps she could book these desks out if they are reserved? “Oh no no no I don’t need to book them! Everybody knows we sit here, [Big Boss name] said we were to sit here!”

    Only one other person from this group showed up, and sat down next to my team – there were plenty of free seats in “their” desk bay by the way – and made more passive aggressive remarks about us sitting there.

    I’m privately fuming/laughing at how silly this is, but just figured we would sit elsewhere in the future because I CBA dealing with nonsense. Then I get a message from Big Boss to come chat with him for a minute up at the desk bay on the other side of the office.

    I approach him and say hi, say that we had no idea about the desks and would sit somewhere else, he cut me off and was like, “I just want you to know you are in the right, it’s meant to be hot desking, but [that group] cause so much conflict I stuck them there to get them out of our way. I’m really sorry, please feel free to sit literally anywhere else.”

    Me: Not a problem bruv! Happy to be fluid and dynamic! it’s all about collaboration!

    We had a nice chat and the next day I came in early and scored us an excellent spot several desk bays ahead.

  60. JustaTech*

    TL;DR How do I phrase my out of office message when I don’t know how long I will be out?

    I’ve got to have some gum surgery in a few months (ugh), and the doctor indicated that this isn’t a “back to work next day” kind of thing, and that I might be swollen up and in a lot of pain for several days, and also I won’t be able to eat anything but room-temperature mush for the better part of two weeks (yay). She also said that it really depends on the person how quickly you heal and how soon you can drop pain meds.

    I feel like my out of office message should say something like “I will be out of the office starting on Date and expect to return some time after [Date 5 days out].”
    I don’t work with a lot of external people, so I think this should be sufficient (I always include contact info for my immediate boss and peers for important stuff), and I can update it as needed.

    This also feels like a situation where I can request the option to WFH *if* I’m off pain meds (back in my right mind) and feeling OK but still can’t talk/look like a chipmunk.

    Do I need to try to be more specific in my OOO message? I wasn’t going to provide any details on why I’m out.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I might say “return no earlier than [Date 5 days out]” but that’s just a stylistic thing. Message reads fine.

    3. Annony*

      I would probably try to mange expectations by flipping it around. Figure out the likley maximum amount of time you will be out and say “I will be out of office starting on Date and will return by [Maximum date]”.

      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        Seconding this. It’s a nice bonus for your colleagues if you’re back early vs an annoyance if you’re out longer than expected.

      2. Person from the Resume*

        I might favor “… will return on or before [date].”

        But it’s just really how do you like to express that thought.

    4. Filosofickle*

      Nah. I didn’t put any details or an estimated end date in my OOO message when I went on medical leave. It simply said I was out on leave and to contact Boss if they needed anything. (My leave was much longer though.) For my immediate team and key people I was a little more transparent about the possible timeline and that my leave was for “health reasons”, but that was all done via Slack not in the OOO.

  61. Buffalo*

    I’m hiring for a role in a very sleepy, slow-paced environment where someone does have to be present to respond to customer inquiries when a customer reaches out, but where this happens…rarely. Think of that one George Saunders story where the amusement park staff is constantly getting the amusement park ready for the arrival of eventual guests, but there are no guests and never have been. Some people would love to work in a place like this, and I want to find them; some people would absolutely hate it, and I want to make sure they know what they’d be getting into.

    How best to communicate this in a job ad? We’ve all seen mockery of organizations that say their organizations are “fast-paced” when they aren’t, but I’ve never heard of a good, professional-sounding antonym for “fast-paced”.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      What is the person expected to do the rest of the time when not responding to the rare customer inquiry?

      If they can do whatever they want because you just need a warm body, I’d try advertising it as a slow-paced job perfect for, for instance, students who can use the time to study, writers who can use the time to write, knitters who can use the time to knit, etc. Be clear about the amount of downtime and what they can do during that time. I’m willing to bet lots of people would be interested if they knew in advance that the downtime was instructed.

      If it’s not unstructured, obviously spell out what they’d be expected to do.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Do you permit them to work on their own projects in their downtime (as long as they’re responding promptly to inquiries plus whatever other stipulations seem reasonable)? You could call that out — “this position regularly includes some downtime, and might be suited to a student or aspiring writer or similar who can make use of it when appropriate.” That’s not GREAT, but I think it would definitely get the point across. (Gosh, I would LOVE a job like this if they let me read and craft and do homework during downtime. :P )

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      Agree with everyone else’s question, what does the job look like otherwise? Is this a remote position where this employee is essentially on-call – that they can pretty much live their life however they want as long as they’re ready to drop everything when the call comes in? Or is this going to be an in-person job where they can’t do non-work things so their job is to essentially be trapped in a room all day? Or is it somewhere in between? It’s going to be a much easier sell if your employee is free to do whatever they want in the downtime.

      If it’s the first I feel like “on-call remote position” would be a fairly accurate description.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        I might try to craft something with react or reactive to customer inquiries . If they are literally just waiting until a call comes in, but must answer the call before the customer hangs up, spell it out.

  62. BookbinderGirl*

    I find myself looking for work for the first time in 30 years … my last job search was with a red pen in the classified ads! For those with more modern experience – how do you know that the postings you read (on LinkedIn in my case right now) are legit? How do I know I’m not sending my resume to a scammer? Do the websites vet these things somehow?

    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      White collar? If yes, fake job ads tend to be more generic and not define a real need or problem.

      For example, if it is an analytical role, they won’t ask for any advanced computer programs, and have vague descriptions such as “analyze the impact of key business decisions on future outcomes.”

      You look at it and think “wow, anyone can do that, I’ll definitely be qualified!” And then you see the same “job” reposted every month.

      Also in this environment, a job that seems too sexy/desirable is a red flag, TBH. Why would someone quit an awesome job now? It’s either fake or there is something seriously undesirable they’re not including.

      I’d stick to jobs with a real technical need, for example, rare computer programs

      1. BookbinderGirl*

        I’m looking for a remote writing/editing/proofreading type thing … and I’m definitely seeing some “too good to be true.” Tempting … and scary.

        Thank you!

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      If they list the company, I’d go visit the company’s website to see if they seem legitimate. Not that a scammer can’t put together a website, but if the job looks particularly appealing, I’d do some quick reverse research. Which other sites link to them? How old are the links? Do they list any industry awards on their website and if you go to the industry awards website, can you see the company name on a list or in a press release? Etc.

      I assume, like me, one of the things you’re struggling with having worked in one place for a long time is that you just don’t know what companies are even out there these days. There are thousands of legit places to work that I’ve never heard of, which is annoying when they set off my scram radar despite not being scams. I’ve started using those aforementioned awards list as my basis for a search by just checking the Careers page of their websites. It’s not necessarily a time-effective way of doing things since they may not have any appropriate openings, but it does help me skip the research stage of figuring out if they’re a real company, so maybe it evens out in the end.

      1. BookbinderGirl*

        Thanks so much – this is helpful. Yes … I assumed this would be my last job. Until I discovered it wasn’t. Dealing with a lot of grief, and a certain amount of panic. My current position isn’t eligible for unemployment … so I’ve got to make a rapid transition, but I don’t want to leave as long as I’m still needed here … it’s an awkward, difficult collision of circumstances.

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          You’ve got to take care of yourself. Being ineligible for unemployment means you have less safety net than other folks might. It sucks, but I would let go of trying to make all the timelines work out perfectly. Give your current employer as long as you safely can and leave when your new job comes along, even if that’s not as long as they need or want.

          OldJob cannot be your future. You need to take care of your future, and that means securing a new job and working with the new job’s timeline. Don’t screw yourself or your future over for your past, even if it’s a past you’re fond of or feel loyalty towards.

        2. Dancing Otter*

          Don’t take your former employer’s word for being ineligible for unemployment. Some companies try to weasel out of having their rates increased by discouraging employees from claiming.

      2. Paint N Drip*

        I’ll second the Careers page of companies you are interested in, if you have some in mind – I’ve been seeking a certain level of benefits, so once I find a large company that offers that I add them to my ‘check weekly’ mental list. But also if you’re finding job listings from aggregator websites, go to the company website and check if their Careers page (if it exists! Sometimes it doesn’t and they truly hire from LinkedIn/Indeed/whatever) for that job – if you’re worried about scams, applying directly to the company’s application process should eliminate 99% of that (you know who you’re applying to, you know they’ve posted the job)

        So much has changed in the job searching world, so don’t hesitate to use Alison’s advice on your application materials. Sorry you’re going through it right now, but you’ve found a great resource here at AAM

        1. BookbinderGirl*

          Thank you – you are all being so helpful that my eyes are leaking a bit. Though my eyes are doing that a lot these days!

    3. DrSalty*

      The websites do not vet them, so you should do a bit of your own research. Does the company have their own website, an office location, employees on LinkedIn who seem real, etc etc. Good luck!

    4. pally*

      With any job on LI, it’s best to apply at the actual company website. Don’t trust that the EasyApply feature will actually get the resume to the company. I understand that Easy Apply is the default feature for posting job ads. If the job poster doesn’t know that, they won’t know to pick up the applications via LI.

      Then google the company for their website. And for reviews or comments about them (i.e., they are scammers).

      1. A Book about Metals*

        Can you elaborate on Easy Apply? Why would that be different from any other application on LinkedIn?

    5. Decidedly Me*

      I always apply directly on the company site where possible, but regardless of whether you want to apply on the job board site or the company site, it’s worth taking a few min to look at the company site. Scammers can and do put up websites, but they tend to be generic and missing a lot of details.

      Due to the nature of my work at a previous job, I’ve had a lot of exposure to phishing scams, including job scams. The biggest initial red flag to a job scam is very high pay for the job title/amount of work. EX: Admin Assistent, $90k/year, 25-30 hours/week, no experience needed. A few other things I’ve seen commonly: they tend to have Google forms as application pages or something similar, there may be mention of setting up a new office they’ll need you to check out, or SSN is asked for in the application.

    6. LibrariesAreAwesome*

      If you have a decent sized library by you they likely have a variety of business directories that provide all sorts of info about companies. Most of these are reference materials that do not circulate, but this may vary by library. Some large libraries have special sections and even staff specifically trained to help patrons with this type of research for example, Boston Public Library used to have an entire budiness-focused branch in downtown Boston, and last I checked still has a smaller section devoted to this collection in the basement of the main Copley Square branch.

      There are also online databases, but they tend to be spendy (I have seen very large public libraries make some of these available to patrons, but they sometimes have limitations on who/how they can be used).

      Even if they don’t have these materials or specialists, a good reference librarian should still be able to offer some assistance (and may be able to do so by phone).

      Good luck!

        1. LibrariesAreAwesome*

          Interesting – I know there must be other uses for them, but job searching is the only context in which I’ve heard them used (granted, as a non sales/business development type).

    7. DisappearingPosts*

      ugh, I left you a lengthy reply with suggestions I don’t have time to recreate right now. If it doesn’t show up later I’ll try to recreate. Hate when this happens.

  63. Epi Onym*

    I’ve often seen here and other places that it’s pretty normal to not feel like you’ve really got full proficiency of a job until about 3-12 months on. But are expectations different when the job is a short term contract to perm position?

    About 2.5 months ago, I was suddenly laid off from my job at Teapot Labs, and a month later was hired as a research associate at Startup Teas. My contract is slated for 6 months, although the new company tends to hire contractors to permanent roles fairly quickly.

    I’m quite worried that I’m not up to the standard my supervisor needs me at – at my 1 month check in he seemed worried about my not completing planned training because of an urgent project he had me prioritize.

    To further throw a wrench in things, he was on PTO two weeks into my first month, and I am currently on unpaid time off for two weeks (previously scheduled before my layoff, and negotiated to take as a condition of the job offer), so we’ve effectively had only 1 month total working together. Is it still reasonable to assuage my anxiety by telling myself I still need time to get the hang of things, if that time window by design is short?

    1. TrainingDeadlines*

      I’ve been expected to be productive within a week, two at the most, at most of my contracts. Some of my contracts gave only lasted a few weeks, though. Most have been 3-4 months with my longest running 11 months. That doesn’t mean you have to know everything about everything in a week+, but that you should be contributing in a real way, whatever that means for that project.

      There may be legal requirements to complete certain training within 30 days of starting. It’s been a while since I’ve had to do it, but I believe the FDA gives 30 days for new hires including contractors to complete their extensive training requirements for working on regulated products. There’s a deadline for HIPAA training for some environment (in general it’s once a year for everyone at a covered entity or business associate). There may be other such requirements, or the company imposes its own deadline on things like privacy, sexual harassment, or other HR training that a manager could get dinged for if their reports don’t meet expectations.

    2. Kay*

      I think this really depends on the nature of the work, if the systems/processes are standard across the industry, etc. For some jobs the “getting up to speed” part would simply be the learning curve of the client files are stored here, you email Baxter for this, the admin only orders supplies every 2 months so make your requests early type stuff but you could do the job on day one – others where you have more in depth learning, proprietary non-conforming or infrequent processes they can take much longer.

      Also, a 6 month contract could be “they can 100% do this job” or “we think this person will work out so therefore we shall hire them”. When you are both back in the office I would say something to your boss like “I knew we had me push off training for the BIG IMPORTANT project, but is now a good time for me to do the training? Are there any areas where you are concerned about my performance or anything I need to improve on? Your boss could just be concerned because it is a mandatory training, or it could be that there is some important information you need. You won’t know until you talk about it.

  64. JPB Gerald*

    Just went on paternity leave (baby is overdue like a library book, will be Tuesday – yes, election day – at the latest) and it’s taking everyone a second not to ask me questions because I’ve always been someone who responds when I shouldn’t (on weekends etc). No one demands I do this, but the way my ADHD works is I would honestly feel way more stressed having to respond to 50 emails Monday morning so I just respond so I don’t have to think about it.

    I’m not going to respond once the baby comes. But this is more of a point that having a one person department/single expertise can cause these issues. I’m just glad I finally have a new employee who can answer a lot of the questions.

    1. HungryLawyer*

      Congratulations!! Sending positive vibes to you, your partner, and your soon-to-be newest family member :)

    2. Name (Required)*

      So exciting! Enjoy your bonding time and take good care of your partner, your baby, and of yourself!

  65. Annie j*

    How about a thread on work jokes.
    I’ll start.

    I told my boss that three companies were after me and so I’d need a raise.
    He asked me which ones so I told him the gas, the electricity and the water.

    2. Mad Harry Crewe*

      I got a promotion (on the same team) and announced it at standup with a long shpiel about how this was a difficult decision and I’ve really enjoyed my time here as a T1 and I was taking a new role… as a T2.

    3. A Significant Tree*

      (not mine but a favorite from the internets)

      Boss: You should have been here at 8!
      Me: Why, what happened at 8?

    4. Industry Behemoth*

      Adam, lots of people wish you would leave Team A …
      because you would be perfect on Team B.

  66. Girl Interrupted*

    I have a relatively new direct report who seemed great during the interview process. What I’m finding now, though, is that they interrupt me a LOT. The last time it happened I said “I’m not done yet” and then kept going, and this did the trick. But I wondered how others have addressed this? If you’ve been a habitual interrupter yourself in the past, what communication from others has helped you interrupt less?

    1. Sloanicota*

      You just mean in conversation while you’re talking to them? Not like, they keep coming over while you’re working and interrupt your other tasks to ask questions etc? It’s totally fair to raise this with a “please let me finish” or hold up your hand or just over-talk them to finish your point – you can also call out the pattern. But …. unpopular opinion, I struggle with interrupting the most when people perambulate in their sentence, or make a lot of meaningful pauses, or trail off frequently without over handing over the conversational torch. It would help me interrupt less if the other person could be as succinct as possible.

      1. Girl Interrupted*

        Thanks! Yes, this is in conversation during our 1:1 meetings. I have already sensed that this person is a “get to the point” kind of person, but I don’t think my communication is the issue here. I’ll keep this in mind, though, as I observe this going forward.

        1. Sloanicota*

          Yeah this can be handled a couple different ways. There are people raised in a “collaborative conversation” culture who truly don’t recognize it as a problem to interject, and there are people for whom being interrupted is a huge pet peeve, so there can be an situation where two well meaning people are missing each other. As boss, you do get to set the tone and ask directly for the style that works best for you and expect them to adapt their behavior, but maybe you can assume good intentions – or maybe you can’t, if they are actually being disrespectful. Hard to say from the outside!

      2. WillowSunstar*

        Yes, usually when people pause for a long time, it’s a sign that they’re done. It might be a good idea to start counting in your head til 3-5 seconds (using the one-Mississippi thing) just to make sure, if the person habitually makes what we call “awkward pauses” in Toastmasters.

    2. Glazed Donut*

      I’m an interrupter – continue the “I’m not quite done yet” or the raised pointer finger/hand to indicate the person should pause. The more people do this to me, the more I know I need to fix it. If people don’t, I’m more likely to think “eh not a big deal” and less likely to work on it. I don’t consider it rude; I think it’s helpful.

    3. HannahS*

      I’m from a culture where overlapping speech is really common, and I find it hard to even notice that I’m doing it, because it’s not really considered “interrupting” in my home culture–which is a long-winded way of saying, I’m not trying to be rude. What I find helpful is when people just continue talking. Then it clicks–right, ok, stay silent until they are silent and THEN talk.

  67. Side Hustle Heartache*

    I’m having boundary issues with my side hustle. It’s quite lucrative, often around $10K a year on top of my full time job, and this year quite a bit more … but it’s not so lucrative that I can put my real job at risk (no benefits, no guarantee down the line of future work, and I can’t live on $10-20K). This year the side hustle wants more and more of my time, but they’re suddenly quite disorganized; I’ll put in a bid and hear nothing, then suddenly they come back and said the bid was accepted for next week, but the times have all changed, and it’s different than what I proposed. They missed a payment I’ve been trying to track down. They email me more often for new bids and it’s always time-sensitive. It’s starting to cause havoc with my dayjob, but the money is good enough that I want to keep trying to balance both, if I can. I’m trying to balance playing nice with the side job so they keep wanting to work with me, but also at some point I’m going to have to lay down the rules and explain they’re not paying enough to treat me this way, since I have to keep a second job. Thoughts?

    1. NaoNao*

      I think an employment agreement or some type of contact is needed here. It will help professionalize the relationship and expectations and you can talk through some of these recurring issues.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Can you find a gentle way of asking them wtf is going on on their end? e.g. With the payment thing, can you ask “I noticed my last payment is missing — can you let me know if you’ve changed any processes re: who I should send invoices to to make sure this doesn’t happen again?” Or with them taking forever to confirm your bids, something like “I’ve noticed the timelines between bids being approved and work needed to get started have gotten smaller — do you need a longer bid lead time from me so that when they do get approved, the timelines still work?”

      For the bids in particular, if they come with timelines, can you set them up so that they’re calculated from the bid approval date? i.e. instead of saying “November 4” it says “Content submission due November 4 or two weeks after bid approval, whichever is later.” I don’t love that, but there’s gotta be a way to make your own timelines contingent upon theirs.

      Ultimately, how you worked with them in the past sounds like it’s changed a lot. It may be worth talking to your contact (or their manager?) and just laying it all out there.

      1. Side Hustle Heartache*

        Yeah, my guess is it’s all related to why they suddenly want so much more of my time. I think this work was previously spread out between more freelancers and they have fewer now, and possibly also an increase in work requests from their clients, so their bid/approval processes are getting squeezed and things are dropping off plates. It should be a good problem, but since it’s still not a living wage for me, just a “nice to have,” it’s not.

        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          I wonder if you can prompt them to approve your bids faster by illustrating the connection between the bid approval date and the first date in your timeline, e.g. “In order to get started on November 18 as indicated in the timeline, I’d need to hear back in the affirmative by November 4” or whatever. I think I like that better than the “whichever is later” language I used above. If they don’t approve by X, that puts the start date in jeopardy.

    3. KathyG*

      When was the last time you raised your hourly/daily rate? If side hustle is getting inconvenient and troublesome, with the added aggravation of slower payment, it’s time to build yourself some cushion into your bids, both money wise and timewise.

  68. Winners know when to quit*

    I left my job this week and couldn’t be more thrilled. I had a great position on a great team with great clients, but when our company was bought out and most of our leadership team was fired, changes started to set in. Changes I didn’t jibe with. I didn’t think the situation was as bad as it was until I went on an interview (and I walked in totally convinced I wouldn’t leave). Once a comparison was made to what I would never get at my current job I knew I had to go, whether I had an offer or not. I’m so happy with my decision, I’ve found a great org and a great boss, and I’m so grateful for all the k owledge imparted on me by this site in the years I’ve been reading. Resume, interview, negotiating. What helped me most is just keeping a logical head on my shoulders and knowing that I didn’t need to be indebted to a company that didn’t treat me the same.
    Good luck to all of those looking!

  69. NaoNao*

    Ultra-specific request:

    I feel I’ve reached a ceiling in my IC L&D role (Instructional Design, basically). People management isn’t for me, but I’m considering moving to a more lucrative and expanding side, the back-end architecture and management of learning management systems. I have a bit of experience in this already but more importantly, I keep getting recruiter emails about this and having to say no as I’m not a match, but that’s where the roles seem to be these days.

    All the training I see online is 1000-s of dollars and that feels really high for a “maybe” certification or education program. Are there some free/low cost resources outside of things like Articulate’s blog/forums (which I’m on!) that I could use to see if the “backend” side is for me?

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      What does the “backend” entail for you here, i.e. true backend like behind the scenes where everything you see is code, or “backend” like the parts of the LMS interface that the average user doesn’t have access to but where you configure settings, etc.? Or is it both?

      1. NaoNao*

        Not coding! More like jobs where it’s “all but coding”–more admin/super user technical type jobs.

        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          So, oddly, that’s actually the kind of role I already do for a non-LMS software and I recently applied for a job doing the same thing for an LMS for another company! And I’d say that if you’ve used it on the front end at all, it’s actually not that big a leap to be the admin super user on the “backend” of things if you have an aptitude for figuring out new things in software.

          The software I currently manage was one I used as an end-user for a number of years and was a designated “power user” in my team, i.e. the subject matter expert specifically for how our individual team used it. When my current job as the admin came up, I got it because my predecessor identified that a) I was good at using the software, b) I had good ideas about ways we could be using it better / more efficiently, and c) had a very broad outlook across the company to see how the work we were doing might impact other users of the software, or vice versa.

          So for me, the “is this for me” thing is less to do with formalized training that you might have to pay for than it is figuring out if the day-to-day is something you would enjoy, e.g.

          – supporting users with low tech literacy on some truly mind-numbing support requests
          – supporting users who are mad the system can’t do the thing they want it to do, even if you agree it would be super great if it did
          – supporting users who are truly bad at articulating the issues they’re experiencing; are you good at teasing out what someone actually means when they’ve somehow managed to say the opposite?
          – identifying gaps in usage or cross-collaboration that can be fixed or at least supplemented by the LMS (kind of like a business analyst role)
          – identifying overlaps in how teams work to maximize the material available in the system so you’re not unnecessarily doubling anyone’s work
          – having a true understanding of how all the teams using the system operate so that you can tell if a request from Team A is going to cause a conflict with how Team B uses it
          – juggling competing priorities when decisions need to be made about how X is implemented
          – dealing with what happens when people haven’t bought into using the system in the first place (huge problem I can never solve because I have no authority)
          – problem solving in general, where someone says “I need to accomplish X” and there are three imperfect ways of doing things, including re-purposing parts of the system for things they weren’t intended for

          Honestly, for me, it really isn’t about the software. Anyone can learn how to use a piece of software. (Well, not anyone, clearly.) It’s all the soft skills and institutional knowledge that are important to jobs like this. Lots of other people could do my job from a technical perspective, but I’m the best person for it because I know my company really well.

          Also, I would stop telling recruiters you’re not a match, because I don’t think that’s the case! I applied for that LMS job because I think all of the above make me a really valuable candidate. I can learn the technical side, but all my soft skills are not something everyone has.

  70. Wondering How This’ll Go*

    I work for a large company whose CEO has recently escalated from general craziness to some rather public choices that may be quite illegal. I’m curious, in a situation where said CEO actually gets convicted of a crime, what happens to the company? Is he obligated to step down? Could the company end up paying for his legal fees?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      All depends on how related the crime is to the job, whether the company is publicly traded, and how much equity the CEO has. There is hopefully a continuity-of-operations plan for this kind of situation, and there are even insurance packages for it.

    2. BellaStella*

      I asked Claude this and the AI came back with this statement:
      speaking hypothetically and based on historical precedents: When a CEO is convicted of a crime, several things typically happen:

      Board Authority: The board of directors usually has the power to remove a CEO, even without a criminal conviction. Most companies’ bylaws and employment agreements have provisions for this.
      Leadership Transition: If convicted, CEOs typically either:
      Resign voluntarily to avoid further damage to the company
      Are removed by the board of directors
      Are forced to step down due to practical impossibility (e.g., if imprisoned)
      Legal Fees: This depends on several factors:
      The company’s bylaws and the CEO’s employment contract often specify if the company must pay legal fees
      Many companies have Directors and Officers (D&O) insurance that may cover legal fees, but these policies often have exclusions for criminal acts
      If the crime was committed in the CEO’s personal capacity (vs. official duties), the company may not be obligated to pay
      Company Continuity: Companies can and do survive CEO criminal convictions. The board typically:
      Appoints an interim CEO
      Begins searching for a permanent replacement
      Implements damage control measures
      Works to restore stakeholder confidence

    3. Antilles*

      It very much depends on the setup of the company.
      If your CEO was hired from the outside or worked his way up, the Board of Directors likely has the power to quietly push him out. It might get publicly framed as him choosing to step away and he might get a decent severance package in exchange for him going quietly, but it’s certainly not voluntary and can get resolved pretty quick.
      But on the other side, if your CEO was the founder and still has a lot of equity, there’s nothing the company can do because he can use his voting power to delay/veto anything trying to force him out. Also in this case, the Board usually ends up stacked with his buddies who would back him anyways, so there’s not even the internal will to get rid of him.

    4. ABC123*

      It also depends on what type of illegal activity you are talking about.

      If it is general crimes (the kind a regular police department would investigate) that’s one thing

      If it is something directly related to the business. (I.e. insider trading at an SEC regulated company or a bank executive openly talking about money laundering). Then the regulatory agency could push him out after a conviction

    5. Global Cat Herder*

      Conviction will take years. Then there are the inevitable appeals, which also take years.

      Elon’s boards are terrified of him, so there won’t be any company consequences until all appeals are exhausted. (And yes, he’ll absolutely saddle one of the companies with his legal expenses.)

      1. BigLawEx*

        This ^^^

        I guess the thing I learned from the practice of law is that regular folks get convicted and lose their freedom and livelihood.

        CEOs (I did a lot of work during the Enron era) get an exit plan in only the most egregious situations. Otherwise, it’s business as usual.

  71. Pronouns*

    I started a new job last month and have 3 team members that use they/them pronouns, which is a first for me. I make sure that I am using the proper pronouns when referring to any of them. The company as a whole is good about respecting pronouns, too. However, sometimes when I am speaking with someone else, they will get one of my team members’ pronouns wrong – this always feels like a slip, not intentional, as they more often get them correct. I usually just make sure that I use the correct pronouns back and they always get them correct in the next sentence (ex: “How is he doing?” “They are doing great!” “Glad to hear they are doing well.”). Is this the correct thing to do or should I be specifically correcting them?

    Also, is there anything else I should be aware of or doing in general?

    1. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Sounds like you’re doing just fine – that’s how I prefer to be corrected, and how I prefer people correct on my behalf. Nice work, and thank you.

    2. Tech Industry Refugee*

      Thank you for asking and caring, first of all.

      If it’s a slip, then yes, keep doing it the way you are doing. If it’s repeatedly the same person slipping up, it’s okay to say, “hey, Jo actually prefers they/them pronouns. Just want to make sure we are using the right ones for everyone.” It’s unlikely that they are using the wrong pronouns out of malice, they could just be older/behind the times.

      I have a sibling and also a coworker who use they/them pronouns, and confirmed directly that they appreciate when others correct on their behalf. It becomes very exhausting for them to constantly correct people.

    3. Elsewise*

      I’m cis, but have a lot of close loved ones who are trans and I’m basing my response on what they’ve said to me in the pat.

      What you’re doing is perfect. If you can’t find a way to use that person’s pronouns in your response, just a gentle “they” or “oh, Moss uses they/them pronouns” is easy. Don’t make a huge deal out of it, just be easy breezy with it. (My advice would be different if you thought this was malicious.)

    4. Double A*

      I have direct report who uses they/them pronouns and I basically do what you’re doing. If I know someone has used the correct pronouns correctly before and then slips, if it’s one time I won’t necessarily say something but if it happens again then I will and frame it as a reminder. Also if it’s the first time I’ve hear someone refer to them and they use the wrong pronouns, I let the person know the correct pronouns because I assume they weren’t aware. So far this has gone great and people have been fine with being reminded/informed.

      1. closet nb*

        I have a transgender friend who talks about her other friends that use a variety of pronous, including some less common neo-pronouns. She changed her own pronouns, and still gets her friends’ pronouns wrong occasionally, so it can happen to the best of us! She always does a quick, breezy, correction when she catches herself slipping.

        On a related note, does anyone have a good script for when someone asks you about someone else’s pronouns, neither of you know for sure, and it’s impractical to ask the person directly? I’ve heard using they can be acceptable until you know for sure, but it can get awkward. I don’t want to have a long conversation speculating about someone’s gender if neither of us know.
        The person in question is removed enough from our team and high enough in the hierarchy that it feels a little overstepping to ask directly, and it feels icky to seek someone out just to ask that when we don’t work with them directly.
        A parallel fictional example would be something like we’re in teapot painting, and don’t know the pronouns of Wren, the head of finance. We get occasional high level finance reports from Wren emailed to the whole company, and someone says “Did you see Wren’s latest report? It’s exciting we’re going to expand into the coffee pot market!” Then the other person says something like “Yeah, they did a great job on that. Oh wait, I don’t know if they go by they, do you know Wren’s pronouns?” etc.

        1. AnecdotallySpeaking*

          If someone asks you Wren’s pronouns, and you don’t know & can’t reasonably find out, isn’t the script you’re looking for just “I don’t know either”; “you know, I’m not sure either”; “ooh not sure what Wren prefers”, etc

  72. LadyGlitterSparkles*

    Federal Employee here in the US…. I am looking at moving to another state and applying to other federal positions. My question is very low stakes, but do hiring officials for federal agencies prefer a resume built within the website (usajobs) or one that I create on my own that isn’t so jumbled looking? I hate the way the USAJOBS built resumes look but my supervisor has said to always build your resume within the builder. Any thoughts? Anyone out there with some insight? Thanks!

      1. Just a name*

        I think the automated screening system may be set up to work with the USA jobs resume builder, but it’s been a few years since I’ve used either. When I was hiring, it was attorneys, and we did not post our individual attorney jobs on USAjobs, other than a notice to check our own website.

    2. juliebulie*

      Not a federal worker, but I would guess that in most cases they are used to the USAJOBS format, even if it looks jumbled.

    3. Deanna Troi*

      I have been on a lot of hiring committees. I always include both. I personally prefer the one you formatted yourself because it is usually easier to read. But HR likes the USAJobs one, in my experience, and that is the one they use to compile the certificate of eligible candidates

  73. PTOnlyFan*

    I could use some advice on how to simply take PTO. I haven’t taken any since covid started, and before that only took it for emergencies, since we have no roll-over that means I’ve thrown away pto every year. but I have found it hard to plan – we are assigned individual projects which could spend months waiting in limbo only to send on Friday a surprise invite for a call on Monday. Also, the only member of my team trained as I am is the head sme, obviously busy. as i observe other teammates take pto, their projects are simply delayed – so when they return the work had piled up. as this is a largely wfm position, pto would only mean annoying my team with things they’re not trained to do, to be dealt with upon return anyway.

    1. Colette*

      Have you tried booking PTO in advance? Decide now you’re taking two weeks in July, or whatever, and put in the request. Then when a project comes up, you build your vacation in to the plan – if you get a 4-week project starting July 1, it’ll be done August 15.

      I think ultimately you just have to do it. It’s part of your compensation. You wouldn’t let the company throw your last paycheck of the year in the shredder; don’t let them take this from you.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I’m the only person who does my job and I just book time off. People are going to be annoyed, and I let them be! I try to minimize the inconvenience by booking it well in advance if it’s a week or more at a time, and I send an email to the people I work with regularly about a month in advance to let them know I’ll be out of office. If they need something, they can ask me in the next four weeks so that they have it for while I’m away. If they don’t, they can’t say they weren’t warned.

    3. Hyaline*

      I’m not sure I’m quite following, but–it sounds like PTO is not covered or planned for within your organization, and you’re chalking that up to “the way it has to be because of the way projects go.” But–is it? Like–why can’t you be at least kinda cross trained to pick up necessary tasks for OTO people, or simply NOT get assigned projects while you’re gone? It seems solvable that you could say right now “I will be gone from June 1-June 10” and your management can (gasp) plan around that. If the only solution for planned PTO is “delay the project” that…is not good planning, sorry. And maybe you can also try *just not caring* that stuff gets delayed and you’ll come back to those delays? If your organization doesn’t want to improve workflow and planning processes, they can get delayed and then they can wait for you to catch up (not working yourself doubletime to do so–normal workflow!)–THEY are deciding that’s how they want to run things, and you can’t be taking on responsibility for that.

    4. WellRed*

      If you are unavailable for that last minute call, they’ll reschedule the call. Trust me. Book the time. Take a breath. You are not your job and you are not your company.

  74. My holiday counts too*

    Hi all,

    My org sponsored a food truck festival for their entire staff. Problem is that they did it on Diwali. There are a good number of staff who observe – and who won’t be around to enjoy it. They always are careful to schedule around and accommodate the major Jewish and Christian holidays.

    Am I wrong to be annoyed ? I’m all for people having their religious beliefs respected, and do not understand why some religions are more equal than others.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I get you – I experienced the same thing about non-religious US holidays when I was an ex-pat. You’re not wrong to be peeved.

      A good HR/COO would think about multiple religious calendars when planning events, but that’s been really slow to happen in lots of places in the US. All I can suggest is speaking up in advance, and try to get other observances on the master calendar so that your coworkers are aware of them.

    2. spcepickle*

      You have every right to be annoyed. One of my adjacent offices booked their huge potluck during Ramadan, it went over very poorly. People are so often in their own little bubble and just not thinking of others. I would suggest trying to get more holidays on the admin / planner calendar. Also make sure to bring it up. The more people who know about your holidays and that you were annoyed the more people who are aware and can flag the issue in future planning. Let me tell you – my whole team now knows to google when Ramadan is.

    3. ReligiousHolidays*

      I feel you – it’s actually rare for offices that aren’t predominantly jewish to schedule around the Jewish holidays (and two of the last three years I’ve missed events run by the Federal government on either Rosh Hashannah or Yom Kippur which irritated me beyond belief) so it sounds like your office may be more open than most to hearing feedback about it and potentially making changes. I admit I wasn’t familiar with Diwali until I was well into my 30s, so if I were scheduling something I wouldn’t know it could be an issue. If someone raised it I would have done my best to be accommodating.

    4. MigraineMonth*

      For an example of how this can go well, my org’s DEI director sent out a dozen calendar invites for important non-National holidays with a notation on each as to whether it’s very important to avoid scheduling meetings that day.

      So now I have marked on my calendar Passover (no meetings Monday or Friday), Maundy Thursday (meetings permitted), and Eid-al-Adha (no meetings), among others. It’s not perfect, and there are always holidays that are missed. For example, Diwali was not included this year, but at least it’s on the calendar for next year!

  75. Tired Manager*

    I’m at my limit with a low performer and need some commiseration. They are a very pleasant person but a simple task that should take 10-30min for someone at their level will take anywhere between a couple hours to a few days. Feedback is sometimes taken well *in theory* or causes complete spirialing. They have several years experience and talk about how they should be a senior soon but I’ve had higher performing interns.

    My hands are pretty much tied with this individual for reasons not worth getting into and I’ll be gone in a few months so I just need to hold onto my patience for a bit longer. Please tell me your other stories so I feel less alone. He’s one of the nicest people I’ve ever met, just really not suited for this career.

    1. Antilles*

      I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but I had someone like that previously. I tried to give the feedback about “this is how long it should take”, about how they’re missing some important details, etc but it never really seemed to click.
      After I left, I found out that he straightened up a year or so afterwards. No idea if someone else finally got through to him, if it was pure maturation with a couple more years of age, or if his next manager finally got approval for PIP/discipline which woke him up. But however it happened, he seems to be doing well now, so good for him.
      All you need to do is just hold together for the next few months and then he won’t be your problem any more. Either he’ll straight up like my low-performer did or he won’t, but either way, that’ll be on him.

    2. WorkerDrone*

      We had a similar person here as our receptionist/shared secretary. Really lovely guy, kind, compassionate, considerate and a pleasure to have in the office. Also, literally completely useless. I have no idea what he did all day, because he was not capable of performing even the most basic tasks correctly.

      He could answer the phone, but could not respond to any requests. Did someone call the main line looking for Fergus Rumplebutter? Shame, because he couldn’t transfer you. Also, couldn’t figure out how to use the employee directory to give you the extension. Best he could do is write your info on a bit of paper, then walk that paper over to Fergus, and hand it to him. Fergus knew better than to ask any follow-up questions such as, “what did the caller want”.

      He could check someone’s calendar for their availability, but could not actually schedule a meeting. Did you want to make an appointment with the manager for the open block of time tomorrow afternoon? Shame, because he couldn’t make an Outlook calendar appointment. Also, remember, couldn’t figure out how to transfer you to the manager directly. Best he could do is – this may sound familiar – write your info on a bit of paper, then walk that paper over to the manager, and hand it to him. Manager knew better than to ask any follow-up questions such as, “what is the appointment for”.

      He could sign for packages when they came in, but could not actually get the package into the correct box in the mailroom. Did you want to have something shipped to the office? Shame, because even if the package is marked “JOHN DOE” it’s going into “DON JOHNSON”‘s mailbox. Best he could do is get it into a box that had a name kinda like yours. We all knew better than to ask any follow-up questions such as, “where did my package go”.

      He could answer an email, but could not actually go any farther along in the process than that. Did you email asking him to make 3o copies for you? Shame, because he couldn’t figure out how to use the copy maker without jamming it all to hell. Did you email him asking him to order more pens for the office? Shame, because he couldn’t figure out how to order using the purchasing card.

      That having been said, let me finish the post with this story: a few years into that job, my father passed away suddenly from an accident. I was a mess. I returned to work pretty quickly just for something to keep my mind off things, but I wasn’t at my best. One afternoon I spent my lunch break ugly crying behind the building; there was this very pretty area with a fake pond and fountain that was quite private.

      He saw me out there somehow and took it upon himself to go make a boiling hot cup of strong tea, he ferociously defended the last cookie in the break room and claimed it, and then braved the women’s bathroom for the GOOD tissues we hide in there. Armed with tea, tissues, and cookie, he brought them to me outside, told me that I going to be OK someday and I should take as much time as I needed today; then he let me have my privacy.

      What a guy. Never liked someone so much that drove me so crazy.

      2. Tinamedte*

        This almost hurt to read, it must have been sooo frustrating! But since you wrote it so well, I got a good laugh instead. Thanks!

    3. the cat's pajamas*

      OMG my coworker is just like this! We just went through a reorg, and my current boss is FINALLY trying to address the issues that the previous managers just… didn’t.

      If you have more than one employee, your other employees are likely grateful you’re trying to address the behavior, and there’s a high chance it’s impacting their work, too.

  76. Down, down, down the road*

    Women and feminine folks who are warm and friendly, I’d love your advice (and anyone else too!)

    I have a very warm and friendly and empathetic personality. It served me really well in counseling and mental health jobs, but now I work in corporate, and I feel like I’m becoming a husk of my former self.

    I do have a boundaries problem where some of my warmness is a protective mechanism, and I will be offer my help when I am stretched thin. Working on that in therapy. But otherwise, I genuinely want to learn about people and help. It works relatively well for my corporate training role. People I’m training feel comfortable with me to tell me when they’re not doing well or need help.

    However, I feel like I’m not being taken seriously by certain colleagues. They respect my work but call me “cute.” I get talked over. I get ignored. Like I’m noticing telling myself “ok no more smiling. No more asking questions. No more laughing. Start pushing back.” And then I just feel like… I’m a husk. There are times I do want to be more direct, but in my mind, it’s equated with less smiling and less kindness and more curt language based off my office culture.

    Should I kill my warmth to be taken more seriously? I’m also the youngest in the office currently, which likely adds to it, and a woman of color. I do notice some of the women of color in the department are stoic. I admire it in some ways. I just feel like I’m having a hard time turning “me” off , which makes me feel disconnected from myself.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Don’t kill your warmth, but absolutely push back on the people being gross about it. You can absolutely say “Please don’t call me cute” in a calm and measured way without having to overcompensate by smiling less or being less kind. Calling someone cute at work in this way is really not okay, which I know you know but I am saying so that you know it’s not just you.

      Can you find any allies who can help you out in meetings? e.g. someone willing to say “DDD the Road has something to add” when you can’t get a word in edgewise or “DDD the Road already said that” for when your ideas are ignored and, I assume, repeated by others to greater response.

      And, frankly, if any of it is related to you being a woman of colour (and you can no doubt tell when it is), I’d start documenting that stuff if it’s coming from the same people over and over.

      I’m sorry these colleagues suck!

    2. WorkerDrone*

      I have had similar problems, but for me the solution was not to kill the warmth – just add firmness TO the warmth, if that makes sense.

      When someone calls you cute, say something like, “That’s kind of a funny way to refer to a colleague! I’d rather be competent, wouldn’t you?” Say it with a smile, a friendly tone, but keep direct eye contact and use the tone to indicate this is not a rhetorical question, you actually want them to respond.

      When someone talks over you, call it out. Feel free to keep the warm tone of voice, but add firmness to it. “Jake, I was still talking – let me finish my thought and I’ll turn the floor over to you.”

      When someone ignores you, INTERRUPT them, and call it out. “Oh, I think you passed over me accidentally. Let me jump in now.”

      Again, I always keep my voice warm and a friendly facial expression/tone – but I also add firmness to the warmth and push the issue. It doesn’t have to be either-or.

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Yes, this! Don’t strip out the warmth, friendliness and helpfulness. Not only does that make you feel like a husk, as women we usually have to perform some degree of it just to not get labeled abrasive or b*tchy (and I know that’s doubly true for women of color). It sucks, we change what we can, but it’s the reality most of us live in right now.

        That doesn’t mean you can’t set boundaries! When you’re stretched thin, the most helpful thing you can do is be honest about your priorities, not promise more than you can deliver (or compromise your priorities to fit theirs). When someone talks over you, they’re missing important information; the warm and kind thing is to explain that you weren’t done talking and finish what you were saying. When someone calls you “cute” or other diminutives, it’s helpful to remind them that’s not how “we” talk about coworkers.

        Be the warm, friendly, helpful, immovable object.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I think you’re pushing yourself into an all-or-nothing mentality when there’s probably a whole range of middle grounds.

      One thing I think you’re hinting at is speed or pace. There are times where everybody is busy and you need to get stuff done together quickly. So it’s not an issue of “no more questions, no more laughing” but rather “We don’t have time for questions or laughing today, but everybody gets that it, so let’s just knuckle down.” (and I deliberately used “we” there).

      If I think of you as a warm and friendly person in general, I’m not going to completely revise my opinion of you just because you had to rush through something one time.

    4. NaoNao*

      I would look at Oprah or similar public figures for a way to be warm but firm and in control. I also like admittedly fictional character Olivia Benson for a role model as well.

    5. Stunt Apple Breeder*

      A colleague of mine recently told me about “Nice Girls Don’t Get The Corner Office” by Lois Frankel.

      I am only halfway through the third chapter (it arrived on my doorstep on Tuesday) and I am getting some insight from it. One of the examples I have read so far is about a well-liked lady who struggled to be taken seriously by her colleagues.

      1. the cat's pajamas*

        Thank you for reminding me of this book, I read it ages ago. Time to dig it out of the bookshelf!

        1. Stunt Apple Breeder*

          There is another, Nice Girls Still Don’t Get It. I’m going back and forth between the two.

    6. Ann*

      Stay warm! It will help you build relationships and you should not feel like you have to hide your personality. But as others have suggested, you can be warm and firm at the same time. My advice is to practice!! Get someone you trust to playact ignoring you in a meeting, calling you cute, whatever it is that people do. You practice smiling and saying “Pardon, I’m just going to finish my thought” or “Thank you, but I don’t love being called that in a professional context” etc. It’s actually really really possible to be warm and also stand up for yourself… just takes practice, especially for people who are not trained to do that.

  77. PTOnlyFan*

    there is no such long-term planning outside of “do it quicker” – I might be surprised by something immediate the first week of July

    it is not compensation to only add to schedule pressure and the workload on return, but that’s not a great way of looking at the situation

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Yikes, this is a “your workplace sucks and isn’t going to change”.

      If the business isn’t budgeting you for 48 weeks of work in a 52-week year, and adjusting project schedules accordingly, then this is going to keep happening.

  78. Fleur-de-Lis*

    For the library workers out there, as well as people who manage those who are wedded to Thee Old Way Things Are Done That Shalt Not Change:
    Tl;dr: how do you tell people who have been around forever that you made a medium-sized change to a project, they are absolutely not in agreement with your choice, especially when you are a new leader and this really is the best decision possible for the wider institution AND everyone else who is going to have to deal with the longer-term consequences of the project outcome?

    Details:
    I’m the new library director at an academic institution, but not new to directing/managing. I have been here for two months. I’m in charge of setting us up for a move to a new facility in Fall 2025, opening Spring 2026. Sadly, most of the decisions of consequence have already been made (example: we don’t have enough stacks for textbooks and it is going to be a whole thing). I’ve been scrambling to add feedback and make changes that are possible.

    The biggest one is deleting the security gates that go off when someone tries to steal a book that they didn’t check out. Or have cosmetics in their handbag. Or a cell phone, or computer. Or a magnetized object in their pocket. It’s the worst, my staff and faculty aren’t the type to get up and chase (or able to get up and chase), and gates are extremely forbidding to those who have bad experiences with metal detectors in the wider world. The gates are also incredibly expensive: installation of the planned gates will run to $100k, and maintenance charges will run to high-four to low-five figures annually for the next five years or more! That’s money we need for other parts of our budget, and it is explicitly my job to make the budget more sustainable than it has been in the past.

    I finally got my long-awaited meeting with the facilities planning group this week and miracle of miracles, we all agreed to delete the gates from the plans. (It helps that our sibling campus in the district is doing the same thing, and my counterpart over there and I strategized on our messaging.) The deletion saves a big chunk of change and time on the construction schedule, which is over time and over budget. Now, I have to tell my library team that I did this thing. I have two librarians and a staffer who are absolutely wedded to the gates and will be beside themselves when I tell them I made this change. However, these folks are retiring as soon as the building is open.

    How do you navigate this? The passion about the gates is unreal to me, in an era where most libraries are not adding them to new facilities and others are yanking out their old gates (which is what I did with great enthusiasm and endorsement from my team at my last director gig).

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      If you’re getting false positives on those gates from cellphones or a lipstick, they are objectively terrible. We’ve had better technology than that for the last 25 years (and I should know, my father was one of the senior engineers who built some of those systems).

      So…. why do you need to tell the team about this? Given that they won’t be in the new building, they have no need to know about anything in the new building – aside from questions that patrons might have about the collection.

    2. ferrina*

      If the money doesn’t go to the gates, what does it go to? Sometimes you can focus on that and people will re-prioritize (“oh, no having these gates means I get COLAs? okay, good trade off”). But some people will complain no matter what- if these people are known complainers, I think you can announce the change as a done deal and then redirect the conversation to productive stuff. If they want to rant, they get to schedule a separate meeting with just you.

    3. Annony*

      Option 1 is simply to inform them of the decision and let them feel however they want about it.

      But if you want buy in, ask them how many books they think the system saves and then point out how much money it costs. It seems like you can purchase new copies of stolen books for a fraction of the cost. If you are able to share the budget with them, show them what you are spending money on instead.

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      DO you have to tell them? That is, will it actually have any direct impact on their day-to-day work? I would say if you were installing gates that they needed to somehow monitor, that would need to be shared along with a plan for how to monitor them and what to do if the alarm goes off etc. But if the impact is “nothing happens,” then… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      1. Pine Tree*

        Yeah, especially if the people that you think this will bother won’t even be working in the new building (sounds like they are retiring before you move). This isn’t something that will affect people until you move to the new building, might as well just wait for this information to come out once you are moving/imminently moving to the new building and talking about new procedures then.

    5. Ann*

      What’s your goal here? If your goal is to tell them in such a way that they agree with you and aren’t upset, you will likely fail because their feelings are out of your control. But if your goal is to tell them and have them not express their upset in work settings… well, you’re the boss and you *can* set limits on their behavior at work! So tell them, let them share feelings for X amount of time, tell them that you appreciate the feedback but the decision is made, then if they bring it up tell them the decision is closed, if they keep bringing it up treat it like any other performance problem.

  79. YetAnotherAnalyst*

    Does anyone have any advice on managing tasks in Jira (or other Agile management system) when you’re not actually doing software development? We’re an entirely unrelated team doing almost entirely unrelated tasks, but with a mandate that “all” work must be tracked in Jira for whatever reason. There’s currently a bit of an opportunity to streamline the process a bit and make it less overhead, but we’re also a little bogged down in what “all” work means (…do I really need a Jira ticket for writing an email?). Has anybody found anything that works and doesn’t make everything take 10% longer?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      1) Just because it’s in Jira doesn’t mean it has to use the exact same workflow. You can set up boards for projects that are not software development, in which you change or omit some of the steps.

      2) You shouldn’t think of a task to be documented in Jira as “send an email to Fergus at Client X”, but rather “perform the annual contract review with client X” – where sending that email to Fergus is just one of the small elements of the overall task. After all, the Jira story for “add spout color to the teapot database” isn’t broken down into the individual code changes that need to be made to each file.

      We have a Jira board for reviewing content changes to scheduled emails, a variety of websites, etc. It’s a streamlined flow and it works just fine. You would typically say “I’ve set up 8 new emails and 3 new FAQ pages for the new client; please check against the company style guide and the client requirements spreadsheet”

    2. Colette*

      I would suggest that the tasks get tracked at a high level. So writing an email to check up on the status of the llama shampoo wouldn’t be tracked as a ticket, but the reason you are writing an email (re-order llama shampoo) might be.

      But, of course, it depends on why you are using Jira and how the tickets will be used.

      1. Colette*

        To quote something I say a lot, you want to capture the what (reorder llama shampoo), not the how (place order, record shipping tracking number, follow up after X days).

    3. Qwerty*

      Jira has multiple project types – check what options you have for your project. Our Product team used to use one of their business project, which allowed them to create custom ticket types.

      Think of the tracked work in Jira as what business outcome are you accomplishing? What are you assigned? What work should your manager know about? So “Set up Lunch and Learn series” as ticket could encompass emailing a couple people, booking the room, sending out the meeting invite, etc.

    4. Procedure Publisher*

      My former job used Jira to get our work through the process. Each ticket had a status that would tell you what is needed. Sub-tasks on the ticket were put in status to reflect whether the work was actively being worked on or if it was in a spot where you were waiting for something else to happen. Some Jira tickets did result in emails or Teams messages outside of Jira. Our internal procedures clearly defined when we needed a ticket or not.

      Hopefully, this information gives you some ideas on how to approach it.

  80. Annie Edison*

    I’m working with a couple of staffing agencies for help in a job search, and they are asking me to upload copies of my social security card and drivers license to their online documentation portal to verify my ID. This feels weird to me- I don’t know how that data is stored or encrypted and I don’t love having copies of both documents floating out in the world. (although weirdly, I had no problem typing in both numbers to sign tax documents virtually, so I guess this isn’t that different?)

    But I’ve encountered it twice now and am wondering if perhaps I’m out of touch and this is just the norm? When I asked if they had other alternatives, they said I could email pictures instead which is even less secure. I am an elder millennial so generally pretty comfortable with tech stuff, but I’ve been self-employed for the past 10 years and not super in tune with current office norms.

    Is this a normal way to verify ID now?

    1. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Also elder millennial, haven’t been job searching in a few years, also would be VERY PUT OFF and wary of this kind of request.

    2. ferrina*

      No.
      At my company, we don’t verify ID until we’ve already made you and offer and we’re processing your tax documentation (usually on your first day). We would never ask for ID as part of the application process.

      1. PP*

        It seems too soon for that kind of request; only when you both agree that you are entering into an employee – employer relationship and you have accepted their signed employment offer. And I would only use their portal once I have more information from them as to how it securely protects my private, personal information. Also, ask how what their steps are to confirming your identity – are they going to do a background check on you by engaging one of the big companies that do that, etc.

        Beware that some staffing agencies (unfortunately many of those based in India which may have US offices, may have zero regard for keeping your information secure. They will email you about a job, ask you to reply with your resume, and your SSN!

    4. Ann*

      I don’t know if this is normal, but I (younger millenial) would also find this very offputting and would request to not share this data. You just never know if a company has good security in place or not.

  81. AnonForThisOne*

    So…I was just told I’m too friendly with my direct reports and too chatty in the office…which is odd as I spend most of my time at work in my office and in meetings.

    I do check in which each of them in the morning and see if there are any pending things they need from me…maybe that’s it?

    I’ve been at this job about 6 months, but I’m not new to management and I’ve always done this. Ironically I started doing this when I received feedback at a previous job that I was too abrubt and harsh. Have I overcorrected in this position?

    My boss isn’t in this office, she works from another office in the company and I’m in a satellite office, so I can’t really look at what she does to see what she wants, which makes it tough.

    There were no issues with work product. No feedback that I’m abrupt or rude (and honestly that’s what people usually say so I guess that’s a win?).

    My boss said it’s not that I’m being unprofessional just too friendly. It was a conversation and nothing followed up in writing so it feels like a good thing to fix so it doesn’t go any farther…but I guess I’m at a loss as there were no real performance issues, no work product… just too chatty and friendly.

    So…now what?

    1. Mad Harry Crewe*

      I would use Alison’s scripts for weird or impossible feedback and go back to your boss with more questions. Something like “I’ve been thinking about our conversation last week and I wanted to understand where this feedback is coming from…”

      I think you need to know
      – who thinks you’re being too friendly?
      – what do they think an appropriate amount of friendly look like?
      – what impact is this too-friendly having on the team, the environment, the work product, etc?

      You’re jumping straight to ‘this is definitely a problem that I definitely need to fix’ but I’d start with being suspicious about the whole thing. You’re not new to management. You’re not getting any negative feedback about your actual work. What’s the big deal? By whose definition are you being “too friendly” and if you are, who is it hurting?

      Also, like, out on a limb but are you by chance a woman, or woman-shaped? If so, I would be 300% more suspicious of anyone trying to police your interpersonal manner.

      1. AnonForThisOne*

        I’m definitely female.

        My boss also mentioned facial expressions meaning it looks like I’m not taking things seriously.

        But again no work product or performance issues. In fact she flat out said it wasn’t an issue of professionalism. She was all…it’s probably closer to this, but it’s not.

        So yeah. I’m kind of at a loss.

        1. AnonForThisOne*

          And I think that’s what has me confused…let’s say my face is “off” and I’m too friendly and chatty with my team…isn’t that professionalism?

          I think I’m just so lost as it seems like I’m doing my job but I’m a “more friendly” way so…it’s bad?

          1. WellRed*

            This is your boss problem, not something you can fix. Maybe your voice grates or something but her vagueness is frustrating. Press for specifics and then ignore.

            1. AnonForThisOne*

              Thanks for the reply. My boss IMO opinion is a but cold, so I do wonder how much of it is that.

    2. Ann*

      I agree with Mad Harry Crewe. In addition to going back to your boss, do you have colleagues you trust you could ask? (Not subordinates who might be uncomfortable giving honest feedback – people at your level or above)

      1. AnonForThisOne*

        Unfortunately no. It’s a small company so I’m the only one at my level.

        And, ironically, while I’ve had casual conversations with others above me in level, there’s no one I know well enough to trust to confide in because…ironically…I’m not that friendly with any of them.

        And I’m not sure going back to my boss will get me anywhere. I do plan to do it because I’m at a loss, but I think to her it’s clear what she told me

  82. (over?)confident*

    My coworker has made a handful of comments about how “overconfident” I am, but it’s really picked up in frequency lately. Initially, just saying “I’m overconfident? About what?” was enough to get him to back off, now he’s started to just argue back that I’m extremely overconfident. Today it escalated to him telling me other people shouldn’t listen to me because I’m too confident. I just walked out of the office. He’s been here longer than me and pretty well liked by others. Moving offices would be a big “thing”. I want to just put this to bed and have him stop making the comment. I’m really sensitive about it.
    For context, we are officemates and managed by different people. I cannot avoid him, as we have to be in office. I have a great working relationship with my manager (and received positive feedback from other departments) and he and his have a volatile relationship.

    1. (over?)confident*

      I mention his manager because I’m hesitant to say anything about it to anyone since he is on thin ice, and people would be furious if I got him in trouble.

      1. The Dude Abides*

        He’s counting on your silence.

        Re-frame it as him putting himself out the door. I would make sure your manager, others above you, and HR keep an eye out for retaliation.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      How is your relationship with the colleagues that he’s telling you’re too confident?

      If he can’t make a list of the ways you’re overconfident (because it probably doesn’t exist), then I’d ignore him if you don’t think it’s actually affecting your relationships with your colleagues.

      If you do think it’s impacting things, do you have a trusted colleague you can ask about how you’re coming across? I know someone who loves to say “I’ve been saying X for a decade” about various topics, and while they are 100% right about what they’re saying, it can be super annoying to listen to because there are other ways to convey your length of expertise, etc.

      I’m not always a fan of going to someone else’s manager because I feel like this should be a manager-t0-manager discussion, so if he persists I’d probably go to my own manager if it was actually causing real problems beyond annoying you. Explain how he keeps saying this over and over without clarification and it’s affecting how other people are approaching you and how they’d like you to handle it.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Oh boy, this is totally projection – he knows he’s in trouble, and rather than doing anything about it, he’s criticizing you.

      Is there anything you can do to give him less ammunition? Meet with other people outside your shared office, don’t talk to him about what you’re doing, etc?

    4. ferrina*

      First-is he doing this in front of other people, or when you are alone(ish)? If the latter, hopefully it means that he’s bullying you as a way to blow off steam, and not as a way to undermine you. It sucks either way, but it’s a little easier to manage the former.

      First, minimize your time with him. Have an urgent meeting. Schedule meetings so you can be somewhere where he isn’t. Be in the kitchen when he isn’t, and out of the kitchen when he is. Find excuses to bring someone else to the meeting with you. If you work near him, announce that you have a deadline/something that needs a lot of focus and will be head’s down for the next couple hours. Then put on headphones.

      Next, build relationships with other coworkers. He’s well-liked, so make sure you have a strong reputation too. If drama goes down, you want people to already associate you with reasonableness.

      Finally, concern troll. Ask your boss for advice on how to deal with this (or frame it as “just to check, am I overconfident? It came up when I was talking to X”). There’s a reason why this guy is on thin ice. You want to put it on your boss’s radar that this guy is starting to either pick on you or undermine you. Maybe this guy is dealing with a lot of stress, but lashing out at you isn’t the right course of action. Mentioning it to a couple people who can get the attention of others as needed can be a good CYA- it means that if this guy starts to escalate, they already know to look out for it.

  83. Give me a reason*

    I’m restarting my job hunt and (happily) have a few interviews next week. I’ve been in my current position for less than a year- I took it after getting laid off, and there are a myriad of reasons it’s not a good fit.
    What reason should I give for looking?
    One person said to mention the long commute
    My other response is that the role has changed considerably since I was hired.
    Both are true (and I’ll omit the other reasons when interviewing, such as sketchy business practices, extreme micromanagement, an exec with no boundaries, etc)

    1. ferrina*

      Any of these are good reasons. I recommend picking one that you feel most confident about communicating. Phrasing on these can be tricky, so pick one that you know you can say without misspeaking or appearing over-nervous (really common).

      It also depends how desperate you are to leave. If you are comfortable with a longer job search, pick the one that is the most important to you. The reason why you are leaving can be a way to screen out other jobs that have similar qualities (so you don’t end up in a similar place to where you started). This could be “I was originally hired to do X, but my role changed to be more Y, and I really want to do X” (if you would not join a place that wanted you to do Y) or “My manager wanted to preview all of my emails before I could send them and insists on attending all meetings that I go to. This is the first time I’ve run into this, and I’d like to move back to a position where I can work both in an individual capacity as well as team situations.” (if you want to get away from a micromanager- all this is said in a pleasant and reasonable tone)
      But if you need to get out sooner rather than later, pick one that is a non-issue. Usually the question “why are you leaving?” is a stock one that only picks up on the reddest of flags (like, “I don’t like that my manager sets expectations and wants me to do what they say!”) Something innocuous like a commute is fine.

    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I think mentioning the commute is… fine but not great. Ultimately, it’s a motivating factor outside the work, but something about it feels akin to when people are like “I need a raise because I have to buy a new car” when really you should ask for a raise because of X, Y, Z job related reasons.

      I think the role changing considerably gives you good inroads into talking about what you do like to do in your work and how the job you’re interviewing for might intersect with the parts you like. “I was hired as a llama groomer, but it quickly became clear that my current job is more about llama husbandry, which isn’t what I was looking for long term. This job’s focus on llama hair styling is really exciting to me!”

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      As someone with an awful commute I totally sympathize, but unless the commute changed during your tenure I think you’re better off sticking with the role changing. Because it’s totally fine to want a shorter commute, but unless something changed (like the job is demanding more in-office days, a new construction project means it takes longer to drive in, or change to public transportation wrecked your commute, etc) there’s a chance someone might be less sympathetic towards you not liking something you knew about and agreed to as part of the job.

      I’m not saying it’s right, and I think after a year it could be easily framed as “I gave it a shot and it’s not working out”, but the job changing is a lot easier to explain with a lot less potential baggage.

      If the new job is a significantly better commute you could probably mention that as a bonus as to why you’re interested in this job, but I wouldn’t use it as the main reason you’re leaving your current one.

    4. Ann*

      Another vote for talking about the role changing. The commute issue, to me, turns focus to your personal life and may create concern about you letting your personal life interfere with work (for example… what if you get the new job, move, and then quit because of the commute?). I don’t think it’s right or fair to penalize someone for that – we all have personal lives – but sometimes things work that way. On the other hand, talking about changes in the role puts the focus on the work you do, is not something you have any control over/ can be blamed for, and (as others have noted) lets you segue into talking about the work you *do* enjoy and how the job you’re applying for fits your interests.

      1. Give me a reason*

        Thank you all!
        I agreee about the commute point. It is quite a miserable one (I live near DC and it takes me 60-90 mins to go 20 miles). I’m mostly focusing on remote roles or if it is hybrid, more flexibility. My current work is extremely strict on time and heavily monitors us (another reason I’m looking. We’re not shift based, or in customer service… everyone is a salary employee, it’s a pretty standard office job)

        Regardless, I’m searching for a myriad of reasons, but if I had to rank it’d be the micromanaging then the role changing, and I think you all have great advice on how to present that.

        It’s really unfortunate because almost everyone there is great and the work is interesting. But I’m a mid-career professional in an assistant director role, and I just can’t take my emails being proofread or having to take leave for a 30 minute appointment. On top of being forced to do sales when that is not my background AT ALL or what I signed up to do.

        Anywhoo.

  84. RagingADHD*

    It’s open enrollment!

    Last year was the first time in forever that we’ve both had decent benefits at the same time, and things have changed a lot, both in the benefit world and in our family, and we kind of winged it. This year I’d like to make a more rational choice.

    Anybody got a good tool / app / site for comparing health plans from different employers? My google results aren’t finding anything particularly useful. I made a spreadsheet, but I’m just not super confident that I’m putting in all the factors.

    Thanks!

    1. comparison shopping hell*

      In my experience, you have to make your own spreadsheet and it’s a bit of a guessing game, unless one plan is just clearly better (lower deductible, fewer copays, wider network, etc).

      I’ve found it’s pretty easy to compare some things like deductibles and copays or out of pocket maximums. But it can be harder to judge networks and some insurers are notorious for having incorrect network info in their website. If you have any specialists you see regularly, you may want to ask each about whether they accept each plan.

      My family also uses our previous year’s health care use to try and see what a typical year would cost us under each plan, plus we usually try to game out something more catastrophic (long hospital stay).

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      you might already know this or it might not matter to your situation but just in case, for your spreadsheet: If you have munchkins, and you both cover the munchkins under your insurances, the parent who’s birthday is earlier in the year will be the primary coverage with the other as secondary. I have never had or insured kids, so I have no idea how much of a difference that might make, but it seems like useful information to know.

    3. TakingNotes*

      I’m not looking forward to doing my own comparison shopping, so I’m planning to contact my Employee Assistance Program (EAP) to see if they can help me muck through the math. We’ll see if they can help!

  85. But Literally Why*

    I found out that the dysfunctional place I left became even more dysfunctional because of one bully who fired the two people who were supervisor and team lead, then took the team lead role. The bully realized they couldn’t bully me so they went after my friends instead. Three others in the team left and the people still remaining are just trying to survive. The bully wanted to get to the top by going unbelievably scorched earth and people tell me this person has no friends. What ever happened to that one bully who drove others away? I need…karmic stories? Closure?

      1. But Literally Why*

        Couldn’t bully me: I had a stellar track record of success and was abnormally proactive just short of being a mind-reader, got along amazingly with everyone (according to folks there), and I asked the bully to clarify their harsh words to me while my friends listed (e.g., I gave what was asked of me, bully got confrontational demanding to talk/isolate me/tell me what I was doing was 100% wrong despite it being what they asked for, the bully went ballistic knowing they were caught being not nice/giving contradictory advice and left the meeting mid-way.

    2. ferrina*

      It will catch up. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but somebody who can’t keep good employees is unlikely to be showing strong numbers.

      Story about Toxic ExJob:
      The whole thing was awful. The CEO was a wannabe techbro. He could raise investment, but couldn’t run a functional organization and constantly wanted to invest in “potential” which coincidentally was always white men. My department was a particular train wreck- the Grandboss had no experience in what we did and only showed up when he felt like it. Boss was an underqualified nepotism promotion that had been appointed by the Outgoing Boss (Outgoing was leaving the company to work for a direct competitor, so no idea why Outgoing got to choose the successor). Boss wouldn’t admit that she had no idea what she was doing- she would just parrot business jargon and agree with whoever had talked to her last.

      I immediately recognized the signs of dysfunction and took steps to protect my team. I started “mocking up a proposal- I’d love to know what you think, Boss,” then she would blindly sign off on whatever I wanted. As long as she could take credit and talk down to me, she let me do whatever I wanted. I created policies and SOPs, and guided strategies. I created slides and talking points to gently guide the things she talked about with her boss. Grandboss would even show me “Boss’s” work, which was literally what I gave her with the names switched. I coordinated with other departments, carefully creating opportunities out of nothing. I was basically running a shadow department, and everyone knew it. Of course, I didn’t get a raise or anything. I just got the job done.

      Then I left. I took all the accomplishments from when I had been doing Boss’s job, and I got an offer doing Boss’s job at a bigger firm. I got a 60% pay raise, putting me at my Boss’s title with a salary higher than hers at a firm that was far more well known and functional. Boss tried to counteroffer me at a paltry 5% of my salary, and I laughed in her face. That karma was sweet.

      Within six months bonus karma hit. Without me doing her job for her, Boss went into hiding- no one could get her to respond to anything for several months. 80% of the team left within a year. Grandboss was unceremoniously fired. Boss officially vanished in a cloud of mystery about 3 months later. I was very satisfied and thought that was it.

      Karma wasn’t done. The company had been rotten from the top-down. The CEO had consistently favored and funded projects from a few golden child employees, who were all consistently male and incompetent and failed up. The CEO and his buddies loved to start a project, completely ignore any SMEs (particularly women), run the project into the ground, then hand it over to someone else (always a woman) and claim that they were “too busy” to work on the project. I had inherited a few major projects this way- there was a group of three of us who would consistently get pulled into failing projects then have to pull it up (and these were big projects that impacted the financial viability of the company). All three of us left the company within a few weeks of each other. The CEO couldn’t keep the company afloat without us there to support him and started losing enough money that the investors took notice. They forced the CEO out, and last I heard, the new CEO is a reasonable person and is turning things around (also happens to be female, which is ironic for a company that was deeply rooted in sexism).

      Anyways, all that long story to say- karma can come where you least expect it. Sometimes you make your own karma, sometimes the universe makes it for you. Sometimes both.

  86. HW4TW*

    I am not a practicing Catholic but baptized in the faith and believe in its tenants. I am on the verge of accepting a job with an Orthodox Jewish non-profit. The program I’d work with is more progressive compared to its parent Orthodox organization.

    I have no hesitancy working in this role because I am very interested in the opportunity as well as the job itself. I’ve usually worked with secular or non-ecumenical or faith-based adjacent non-profits. It’s almost as if I’m learning my role and a whole new culture, which seems very exciting. I grew up in the suburbs of a major metropolitan with many faiths but not Judaism.

    I was referred by someone in my network who made sure, before referring me, that it was okay that I was not Jewish or in the local area. The position is fully remote but they were helping to get somebody in the area.

    With regards to working with other people in this specific program, I’m guessing I will be the only non-jewish staff member.

    Is there anything I should consider further before accepting the role? The person who referred me is Jewish, chose to work in a Jewish nonprofit after years. not in that arena, and was compelled after October 7th. they say they’re often out of the loop when they are org wide meetings because they don’t speak Hebrew or Yiddish, which is intermixed with the primary organization language of English.

    1. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Do you plan on learning Hebrew or Yiddish? If not, are you fine with being out of the loop on the regular? Or are you fine regularly injecting and asking for things to be repeated in English?

      1. HW4TW*

        This is a good consideration.

        The primary business language is English so I have no worries that my lack of Hebrew or Yiddish will be a problem. The Orthodox parent organization is run by rabbis and other leadership with that skill set. I’m sure those around them are more familiar with the language and regularly transition between them.

        I am open to learning or at least phraseology because I know the language is not easy. I spent time researching Jewish philanthropy, such as mitzvah and tzedakah, for my interviews. there was no indication of concerns about this during the interview, which makes me think that it’s not a traditional part of this program’s team culture.

        although I hope during the time that I work with them I learn much like I learned German being stationed in Germany.

        1. blueberry smoothie*

          Yiddish is in principle easy: it is a Germanic language, and so is english, so that’s very straightforward. However, a bunch of the vocab is (old) Hebrew (loshn-kodish). Culturally, I think it’ll be hugely different – there’s a “debate culture” that is strongly Ashkenazi at least. And, there’s often people not afraid to tell you what they think, so if you’re used to people soft-pedalling everything, it might seem really forward.

    2. Panicked*

      Being an Orthodox Jewish employer, they most likely have a very different holiday schedule than is typical for non-Jewish employers. I’d be sure you can take the Christian holidays off, if it’s important to you.

      1. Yes And*

        The holiday schedule is important. If your position is salaried, you can expect a beautiful glut of paid time off in September-October every year. If your position is hourly, your income might take a hit in those months.

        Also, don’t expect anyone to reply to business communications after around 1:00 pm on a Friday.

    3. RagingADHD*

      I have not worked at a large Orthodox organization, but had a great experience working in a small law firm in which the majority owners were Orthodox and had integrated their life / family practices into their day to day work to a great extent.

      The comment from your friend about Yiddish and Hebrew is interesting. I’m not entirely clear whether they were working in this same org that you are contemplating? I think how much there’s a language barrier is going to vary a lot from one org to another.

      For my situation, there were certain terms / concepts used frequently because there’s not a direct 0ne-word translation to English, like around food / catering, holidays, dealing with donation requests, dealing with business practices like not charging interest, with preparing for Passover, with paying respects when an employee’s family member passed away, etc. But they were just basically jargon that was pretty easily explained / learned. It was not as if folks were having entire conversations in Hebrew. So if your reference was in a different org, I wouldn’t assume the same level of bi/tri lingualism would be expected. That’s a good question for the hiring manager.

      You might also ask whether there’s an expectation of taking your vacation to coincide with the high holidays, or if the org is closed. Our firm had some non-Jewish partners so it was open, but my boss really preferred me not to be working during those days because he felt responsible. It didn’t bother me, but it’s something you should find out about.

      Another question would be whether / to what extent there is an Orthodox-style dress code and whether it would apply to video calls or if you might be occasionally onsite for meetings. In my situation, pretty much any business / business casual attire was fine, but my boss asked that I keep a cardigan handy in case some of the more sensitive clients showed up, so that I could cover my elbows. Might be a thing, might not be a thing in your situation.

      Good luck, and I hope you wind up with a great position, whether that’s this one or another one.

      1. HW4TW*

        I was thinking the same about the clothing. I’m not one prone to being wearing plunging necklines anyway, but with consideration to video, make sure that my background is Uber neutral and that I don’t have scoop necks that might be lower than they’re used to. I didn’t ask about clothing because it is a fully remote position. however, I would like to visit the affiliates or chapters in other states so I will ask about that when I go.

        I’m not wedded to many Christian holidays, although there’s always Christmas, but we don’t go anywhere. I’m likely to get more holidays with the Jewish calendar. And of course Shabbat on Friday.

  87. SAW*

    Someone I know works for a company that was acquired and he lost all of his vacation time/has to start over accruing PTO. If we are in a state that requires accrued vacation time to be paid out when you leave the company, shouldn’t the vacation time that he lost be paid out? I just can’t wrap my head around a company taking away all of the accrued vacation time, making employees start over on accruals, AND not paying out any of the vacation time that was taken away.

    2. WellRed*

      Probably a good time for friend to look around. I not only kept accrued bacation, I was able to stay at same accrual rate. Even when my retail job went bust (borders), a new bookstore chain eventually opened and rehired a large amount of us. Fir the FTE, I believe they did similar. It’s just good business to treat employees well.

    3. Ann*

      Can he push back as a group with colleagues? Surely everyone else must be very upset about this too… seems like there would be room for the employees to collectively express their upset.

      And IANAL, but maybe check into the legalities here? If accrued time has to be paid out, maybe what just happened was illegal.

    4. CTT*

      I’m a lawyer who works in mergers and acquisitions and this sounds extremely fishy. PTO is usually either transferred or paid out and started over. I’m concerned that the purchaser is sitting on the money seller was told would go to employees.

  88. Nonprofit ED*

    In California, I don’t think you can do that. Our organization used to be under a fiscal sponsor. When we separated and brought all of the employees under the organization, there were to options pay out the PTO and start over or transfer the PTO. I think its the same for merger’s. They should consult an employment attorney in their area.

  89. r2d2*

    Has anyone else switched from WFH back to in office and had a REALLY hard time getting out of the house each morning? Any tips to readjust?

    1. RagingADHD*

      The only thing that has ever made a significant difference to improving my start time in the morning is to get ready as much as possible the night before, and go to bed early.

    2. kiwiii*

      The things that worked when my husband had to switch back to hybrid were 1) keeping as close to a sleep schedule as possible on the weekends until waking up at the necessary time doesn’t feel like pulling teeth, 2) prepping as much as possible the night before — ensuring you have both made your lunch already and that it’s in the same spot it always is in the fridge vs. having the ingredients to maybe throw something together on the way out the door was a game changer, but so was picking out clothes the night before and ensuring we had clean towels hung up for his morning shower and 3) building in a buffer — say on the best day it takes 30 minutes to go through your morning routine, but a more typical day takes 40, and your commute is 30 minutes most of the time, but sometimes takes 40 — you are waking up at LEAST and hour and a half before you need to be at work, and maybe even more like an hour 45 or two hours, if a little scroll on your phone time or listen to the radio time or read a little time helps you feel less rushed.

    3. Qwerty*

      Two things really helped me

      1. Protein shakes for breakfast because I’m always running late and can drink it in the car

      2. Laying out my clothes the night before (including the shoes). For some reason putting an outfit together the day of would always run into a delay like not finding a jacket that matched or figuring out the right shoes

  90. Jill Swinburne*

    How to tell the difference between a gut feeling and fear of doing something new?

    I’ve been trying to change career from a long on-and-off, most-of-my-working-life, period of self-employment. This year I said stuff it – it has been a massive struggle since 2020 – and started looking for a part-time role. They are thin on the ground and I’ve got close, been rejected, broadened my criteria, but still nothing.

    Yesterday I had a really good phone screen with a very nice hiring manager and was invited for an interview on the spot. I know I have transferable skills – which to this point nobody has been interested in – but this role seems like such a departure from what I know and am skilled in that I’m just not sure. Think something like journalism to admin/business development/eventual practice management activities for an allied health practice.

    I can’t identify the feeling of trepidation – is it my gut warning me, or is it imposter syndrome and fear of the unknown?

    1. RagingADHD*

      Have you tried writing out a pros-and-cons list, and a list of questions for the interview? That might help you surface nagging issues that you are picking up on but haven’t articulated, like problem dynamics or real knowledge gaps about the business.

      You might just need more information about the role and be reacting to the sense of unknown. The interview can be a good time to get that type of info, and going in with a mindset of wanting to find out the answers is usually the best preparation, because you are less worried about how you come across and more interested in how they come across to you.

    2. WellRed*

      To be honest, your I assume fake example is giving me trouble. If you were literally going from journalism to eventual practice manager, are you planning on some sort of education or certification along the way? Which I would factor in. If that’s really not a factor, I think you could make a pro and con list and then just…really go with your gut. They wouldn’t interview you if they didn’t think you could be a valuable candidate. But you sound like you need some sort of change, even if it’s not this job!

      1. Jill Swinburne*

        I obfuscated a bit, obviously, but not all that much. I am planning to do a project management course next year to give myself a few more skills that can be applied in lots of areas.

        You’re dead right that I need a change – I’m so out of balance that I have a table covered in stuff for my hobbies, and yet I seem to fill in a lot of time browsing Reddit instead…smh

    3. Annie Edison*

      That type of question is always hard for me too! I usually try some combination of:

      – free journaling, where I write whatever thoughts/feelings are on my mind. It usually takes me about 3 pages or 20-30 min of writing to get to any kind of clarity
      – writing pros/cons lists for each option
      – talking it over with friends
      – moving my body to get fresh thoughts flowing. Bonus points if I can do it in nature, away from the distraction of screens
      – writing down a list of questions at night right before bed, and then seeing how I feel in the morning
      – going for a drive or taking a long shower and just letting my mind wander around
      – imagining myself making a choice and then imagining how I will feel after making the choice. Sometimes I can tell that I will feel scared but also relieved with one decision, and just generally unhappy with the other.

      None of the options are guaranteed to work every time for me. It’s often a trial and error to figure out which one is going to help for any given situation, and usually takes trying some combination over a period of days to get clarity. And then when all else fails, it sometimes comes down to telling myself there’s no one right choice anyway, and I’ll feel better once I’ve made some choice, any choice, and I can always change course later if I need to, and then just moving forward with an option and trusting myself to work it out as I go.

      Good luck! I’m in a similar boat myself and it’s such a scary phase of life, but I think I’m going to end up in a better place in the long run

      1. Jill Swinburne*

        I like your framing of just making a choice and being able to change at any time – as I said to my husband last night, it’s an interview, not a marriage proposal!

    4. Ann*

      Figure out what scares you and then get more information about that. Are you worried about the day-to-day routines being different? Different style of communication? Different pace of work? Lack of / different connection to values and organization mission? Lack of professional guidance? Once you know what would be scariest, you can try to figure out more from informational interviews and/or questions in the actual interview and get a better sense of things.

      And in general, I take fear as a sign of uncertainty. Often it will diminish as uncertainty decreases. So pay attention to how you feel before vs. after the interview, before vs. after other conversations you have about the job, etc. If your feeling of trepidation starts shrinking it might be the uncertainty going away. If it increases, likely your gut is warning you.

  91. AlmostGrad*

    Hi. At my current job, boundaries are limited. Many of us are student workers who live on site, which means that there’s a lot our coworkers and managers end up knowing about our personal lives. This can be tough, so thankfully I’m going to be graduating soon and moving to a job where this isn’t the case. But I’m not sure what it’s going to be like to have more separation between my work life and my personal life, even though I think this is a good thing. So any advice or suggestions for moving from a very blurry work-life environment to one that’s more clear?

    1. Yes And*

      I made the transition from working theater artist, where show work/friendships can be very intense, to theater admin, which (in that regard, at least) more resembles a regular corporate job. So I feel this dilemma.

      Maintain your non-work friendships, so that you don’t wind up turning to people at work to fulfill those needs.

      Pay attention to the sharing norms at your new workplace (as you would in any new social situation). Given where you’re coming from, I’d err on the side of sharing too little until you have the hang of it, but you don’t have to swing the pendulum all the way the other way. Same with styles of humor.

    2. Angstrom*

      Remember that a lot of questions are polite social gestures, and the person asking may not *really* care about your answer. Reply with something vague and short and only add detail if asked.
      “What’d you do last weekend?”, for example: If you say “Went for a hike” they may just say “Nice!” and change the topic. That’s fine. Save the step-by-step description for someone who shows genuine interest.

    3. Ann*

      Start off pretty conservative about what you share while you are getting a feel for the new culture. Remember – you can always share something later, but you can’t un-share something once you’ve said it.

      Make a conscious effort to pay attention to how your new colleagues handle this. What types of information do they share, in what level of detail, in what context (watercooler chat vs. 1:1 meeting vs. larger meeting etc), and how long do they spend talking about personal things before moving to work talk? Start at the company average or less. Then over time you can determine what you are comfortable with and begin to differentiate a bit if you want.

  92. Chirpy*

    Any suggestions for dealing with my department head, who seems to think I simultaneously do nothing, and too much?

    For context, we have an inventory system where things are scanned in and out of locations. The main metric management looks at is replenishments, because it’s easy, but that only covers a portion of what anyone actually does here. This week, management published the tally for everyone in the store on both replenishment and two other scan metrics. I am the top in the store at replenishment, with my department head as a close second. (If you add all three metrics together, she comes out ahead, but we’re basically the top 2 in the store for scanning.)

    I get the impression that she currently may be upset that I did better (she got weirdly competitive after a previous announcement.) From her previous comments, I get the impression that she wants me to not do any replenishment at all, only freight (which is not feasible, but also I’m not going to stop doing the main thing that management recognizes as a measure of who’s working hard.)

    Management is not particularly helpful, but they are satisfied with my work as it is. So far, I’ve just kind of not said anything if she goes on about whatever I’m currently doing, or explained my process – part of this is also just that we have different work styles (and are both stubborn.) Everything that needs to get done gets done in the correct time frame, but maybe not in the order she prefers. And just in general, no matter what I do is “wrong”, so I understand that there’s no way to please her. I’m just wondering if there’s a better way to react to her comments.

    (on the plus side, seeing the metrics written out has absolutely clarified that Jerk Coworker really doesn’t do anything and next time he says I don’t do anything, I can just point him back to those numbers. I literally did 35 times more replenishments than he did!)

    2. Ann*

      Look for a new job?

      Your boss doesn’t sound reasonable – that is, they don’t sound like they can be reasoned with. Being able to be reasoned with is, imo, one of the most important qualities in a boss. If you can’t reason with them you can’t trust them, and if you can’t trust them you can’t feel secure in your job, and if you can’t feel secure in your job you’ll probably be really unhappy/stressed as long as you’re there.

  93. MissouriGirl in LA*

    I finally remembered Open Friday. I can use some advice. I work in a government agency with about 10+ years of incompetent leadership and the finance people were insane. The head person was fired and appointed an interim about 2 years ago. The interim was just as bad as the head person. Finally, somebody was promoted from within to be the head of the agency.

    I could do pages on how fabulous people are there but then there are those awful people (we’ve always done it this way…blah, blah). There are several of us who hoped that a permanent head would start to run the agency appropriately. That’s not happening.

    Example:
    1. This person has lunch with a select few employees in the break room.
    2. One employee can just walk into their office and turns out, they get two part-time people even though several dept heads have asked for additional help.
    3. People will talk to them about issues and while they listen, nothing is done.
    4. People are not held accountable at all and the carelessness regarding work and funds.

    I’m tired and while I’m on the fence about a new job (which I would have to move-I am in a very niche industry), I have a lot of latitude regarding projects and work but people’s lack of responsibility directly impacts my job.

    Until I figure out what I want to do, I could use suggestions on how to minimize the impact a truly dysfunctional organization has on me.

    Thanks for any and all suggestions and comments!

  94. In desperate need of help*

    Hi everyone, I really need help and strategies for coping with work stress. I’m in a high-level leadership role at my organization, and recently my workload has gotten out of hand. I’ve had more and more projects piled on me despite me expressing concerns, and I’ve been really struggling. I’m making little mistakes that are very uncharacteristic, and that in addition to my responsibilities is causing severe anxiety and stress (so much so that I ended up in the ER this week due to heart attack symptoms lasting 48 hours). I’m paid very fairly for my field and even got a raise as recognition for the increased workload, so my company has sort of tried to support me. I also got an excellent performance review a few months ago. But I am drowning, I’m worried about my health, I feel like my boss is disappointed in me, and have no idea what to do. I started looking for new jobs today, but obviously that can take a while. I also manage 12 staff members, and I’m worried I am letting them down/not being supportive enough due to time constraints. By the time I get home, I’m too exhausted to do any activities that might help (exercise, cooking a healthy meal, taking a long bath) – I just order takeout or make something quick and sit on the couch until it’s an acceptable time to go to bed. Then I have trouble sleeping through the night because I wake up anxious and thinking about work. Does anyone have activities or strategies they use to “turn off” outside of work and cope with stress in general? (I have a therapist and am already on anxiety medication)

    1. AlmostGrad*

      Wondering whether a medical leave of absence might be an option, considering that you’re been in the ER?

      But the thing that I did with my therapist was the container method, an EMDR technique of putting all my work stuff in the container and then I only open the container when I’m at work. That’s definitely helped me think about work less when I’m off the clock.

    2. Sunshine*

      I think you need help. Have you tried counseling-you could access through EAP.
      Some practices for stress management.
      I’m sorry you are struggling. An ER visit is a sign that something needs to change

    3. Jen*

      Don’t feel that your boss is disappointed in you unless they say so. Ask your boss how he/she feels you are doing now.

      When you say expressed concerns, have you told your boss your workload is too high, it might get to the point it will affect you outside work, and it also affects quality at work? Tell them one more time if you’ve only said this once. If you haven’t said this, tell them at least twice on separate occasions and ask for their thoughts.

  95. Banging my head against the wall...*

    My work just got rid of all QA and told us to “just don’t make mistakes” in an effort to increase production. Because having QA has made us “lazy” and “allowed too many mistakes to happen.” They put all the QA workers on the production team with no training. Because if you can do QA/user testing, you can totally churn out product, too?
    That’s totally going to play out juuuuuust fine with no problems.

    1. Qwerty*

      I’m sorry!

      I hate the devaluation of QA. I’ve screened out so many jobs because they say good developers don’t need QA. Those place also wonder why they have so many production issues.

    2. NotSoRecentlyRetired*

      If you’re a manager over any of the QA folks, find positions which are similar to their previous role. Use them to boost the testing you would be doing anyway. Find a way to use their metrics to show that their QA role is truly needed, whether it’s still called QA or not.
      Find out what metrics are being used and make certain that failures that would have been caught by QA are highlighted in your reports to upper management.
      Whether you’re their manager or not, help your QA folks find jobs in other companies and offer letters of recommendation.
      After nearly 2 decades in SW QE, my company told us that we needed to return to SW development. I tried it for a couple months and took early retirement instead of job hunting (at 62), which would have required selling my home and moving.

  96. FlynnProvenza*

    I am a daily reader of AAM and a huge fan! I have a video screening/initial job interview in 5 minutes! Prepared, but nervous! Please send good vibes and luck. I will owe you one!

    2. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      Good vibes and luck sent retrospectively from Australia on Saturday evening, hope your interview results will be what you are hoping for!

  97. Survival Job Ideas*

    Does anyone have ideas for survival jobs that are not gig type work (Uber, Lift, delivery, or anything where you are an independent contractor/ 1099.) and do not require lifting at all? I’m in a large urban area in the U.S.

    I know retailers are hiring for the holidays, but all the ads I see require lifting.

      1. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

        This! A dessert company local to me is even hiring seasonal call center folks.

    3. WillowSunstar*

      Some companies are hiring for front desk type work during this period, I’m looking on Indeed and Linked In, but I’m looking for higher paying support work.

  98. Aura*

    I recently started a new job in Disability and I’m struggling a bit. It’s a new field for me, and I studied something under the disability umbrella but not disability itself so I feel somewhat unqualified but I know Disability right now is desperate for workers. Some of my coworkers have been really kind and helpful to me, but some of them have not and fundamentally don’t really speak to me or acknowledge me unless they have to. I can tell they feel I’m too slow for this kind of work since I’m still learning and I myself have a disability which makes it harder for me to hear everything so sometimes I have to ask people to repeat themselves which seems to bug some of them. That’s what I’m struggling with. I don’t mind the work even though I thought I’d be doing different work at the end of my course, it’s the people. And because it’s disability I work with different people depending on where I’m placed for the day. I guess I’m just not sure what to do. I think I could hack it for 6 months – a year. I guess I just wish I knew how to move more into the field I do want to work in. I don’t really have anyone in my life who knows about this kind of thing.

    1. MoreInfoPlease*

      When you say disability, what do you mean? Is this social security office? a non-profit? a rehab center? A state agency providing services? And how is it different from what you wanted/expected?

      Also, are there any reasonable accommodations that could be made for your disability?

      Happy to help brainstorm, but need more info.

  99. Sick of being sick*

    Is there any professional way to ask people to stop asking for reassurance that I am ok?

    I got sick before a particularly packed month. My own department is great but due to some issues in the larger organization my role and skillset has no redundancy. This means that when I’m ill, certain stuff will pile up until I’m back. Unfortunately, our business obligations this week and next couldn’t be rescheduled, and the lack of redundancy meant I just have to go in and handle it while sick.

    Of course I have to smile and tell my clients no no I’m fine don’t worry about me at all. However, my coworkers keep pressing me, “how do you feel? no really, are you okay?” even as they ask me to keep doing stuff that is exacerbating my symptoms (mainly making me facilitate their in-person meetings while I have a bad cough). It’s clear that they are looking for reassurance, and if I say I’m not feeling okay they become distressed but ask me to help them anyway. Meanwhile, I’m feeling increasingly physically bad, am painfully aware that pushing through being sick is making me worse, and I’m going to need to call out sick as soon as I have a day clear of external meetings.

    Is there any polite and professional way to ask my coworkers to stop requesting I give them false reassurance? Up until now I’ve felt that insulating them from feeling uncomfortable about my condition was the professional thing to do, but as I’m feeling increasingly bad, managing others’ feelings around my illness is social “busywork” that takes time away from the actually vital tasks I have to handle before I collapse. I’m also kind of resenting the feeling that my coworkers want me to make them feel less guilty for needing me more than I need to rest and heal.

    1. RagingADHD*

      There is nothing impolite or unprofessional about saying, “No, I am not okay but this needs to get done, so can we just go ahead, please?”

    2. Ann*

      “I’m not great, but powering through.” / “I’ve been better, but so it goes!” / “I’ll be happy to finish X and get home. Until then…”

      Then immediately change the subject back to a work topic.

      Throw in “Thanks for asking” at the start if you want.

    3. Ann*

      For colleagues you like and trust, you can also be upfront about this and ask for what you want. “I’m still feeling pretty sick, but talking about it just stresses me out more. I know you’re asking to be kind, but I’d actually really appreciate if you could avoid bringing it up.”

      1. allathian*

        No need to lie. They aren’t asking to be kind, they’re asking because her being sick means more work for them.

        OP, I’m sorry you’re going through this on top of your sickness. Maybe telling the unwarnished truth would help? “No, I’m not okay and your constant demands for reassurance are making me feel worse, not better. I tell our clients I’m fine because it’s the professional thing to do, that’s all. Now, what can I do for you today?”

    4. Pocket Mouse*

      “they ask me to keep doing stuff that is exacerbating my symptoms (mainly making me facilitate their in-person meetings while I have a bad cough)”

      It sounds like there are vital things only you can do that need to get done, and then there’s stuff like this. Can you just say no to some of this, maybe by (honestly) saying that you’re not up for X and Y because you need to focus on Z and don’t have capacity for their request at this time? If they take it on, their workload increases a bit. If you take it on, your workload increases AND your health suffers. Let them do the things you don’t absolutely have to do until you feel better.

    5. Hatchet*

      So your co-workers know you’re obviously sick, and yet they’re asking you to help them? Are these coworkers your level? Or is it your role to support them? In my experience, if I’m noticing someone on my team isn’t feeling well, I’m asking what I can do to help them out so they can get home and get better (especially if they’re usually the ones to help me out). If these reasonable people are asking if I’m okay (and I’m obviously not), I’d be telling them so: “I’m trying to tough it out, but I’m looking forward to getting home and getting some rest” … hint, hint, let’s get this stuff wrapped up so I can leave and be miserable in the comfort of my own home.

      I don’t know what the dynamic is with these coworkers, but I’d stop giving them polite reassurance that you’re feeling okay when you aren’t. The only thing I’d be polite about is my tone of voice when telling them I should be at home resting.

      Though you didn’t ask, if you do need to be at work, can you go in for a half day instead of a full one? Is there anyone you can pull in to help you out with some of those tasks? Can you reschedule your external meetings or have someone else cover them for you?
      We’re in the middle of fall cold season in my office and people have been out unexpectedly due to illness for 1-3 days at a time over the past few weeks. Those who have to be out do a pretty good job of sending an email about anything urgent they won’t get to while they’re at home. Those of us who are there figure out a way to make it work the best we can to cover for them and help take care of the urgent stuff. It’s not perfect (and I’m sure some things aren’t done the way the person at home would like), but it’s how we help take care of each other.

      I hope you’re able to get some rest this weekend and feel better soon!

    6. Riley*

      It’s clear that they are looking for reassurance

      Are they, though? You might feel that they are looking for reassurance. You’ve described a number of things you feel about what your coworkers want, but feeling that way doesn’t make it true.

      A more likely scenario is that:
      -Some of them are making pro forma inquiries into your health and aren’t going to do anything with the answer one way or another
      -Some of them want to know what you are capable of bc your capabilities impact their work planning
      -Some of them genuinely want to know how you are bc they are caring individuals

      Regardless of their intentions, your only obligation is to give them the information that will help them, not to manage their feelings around your illness. If part of your illness means you can’t do a particular thing, like facilitate a meeting, tell them something like, “Welp, I’ve got this cough which is keeping me from talking for any length of time. Speaking of, I’m not going to be able to facilitate that meeting.” And so on.

  100. Just a Ghost*

    I am spiraling after being sent a link to fill out an eval for my boss. Things are not going well. I know from experience that saying that will just cause a lot of extra work that doesn’t fix anything. I live in a job desert and don’t have other options so please don’t recommend moving on. The discomfort and at times humiliation of the current situation is way better than anything else I could get around here.

    But… it’s not normal for your boss to do things like go on vacation for 2 weeks without telling you first (I found out through her auto reply), sending you an email asking you to do something “today” when you are using PTO that was approved and is on both your and your team’s calendar, or just generally never stopping by your desk or communicating with you in person, right?

    When I put it like that… and there is more. I know that part of it is that she is holding the work of at least 2 people, but I feel like I’m always the one whose existence is forgotten. I work hybrid at their request but at least half the time I’m on site I literally don’t talk to a single soul about anything work related, and sometimes just don’t talk to anyone.

    I think they will say I’m anti social. I’m not. I do feel live I’ve been isolated. I do feel like there aren’t folks I feel with super well personally – I get along with everyone just fine but all my work buddies are long gone. I think I’m viewed as a weird sourpuss hermit, and I don’t know what to do. I don’t have time to do my job as it is so I’m not wasting time being social just for appearances. I don’t do non required activities because I’m too busy. I don’t think any of that would make my boss like me. I don’t know how to express my discomfort about all of this in a way that doesn’t sound trivial. Like I don’t need an apology for specific lapses. I just need whatever is underlying them to be fixed. And that’s not my job, I don’t think.

    I’m not faultless. I haven’t been textbook perfect about communication because too often I get no feedback or just a thumbs up react to a weekly catchup email like a week later. I’ve tried making clear requests for support (when I’ve been encouraged to do in general) with specific tasks that are explained and easy to delegate with no response or delayed response after I’ve done the work because there was no response.

    I guess this is more of a vent. Really, this employer will just make me go to uncomfortable meetings and expect me to draw up some plan to fix things “to my liking” when I have no agency to have them do anything I need and no management training (let alone position or salary to match) so why am I asked to manage my own way out of problems?

    But still. My body would literally become unusable at the is point if I had to quit and stand at a cash register all day. I’ve done that before when I was younger, and it hurt back then too. And also the thing where if I have to start over again at a new job with bare minimum PTO— I think I’d rather just die honestly. I can’t do that again. (IDEK how job hoppers do it. It took about 6 years to get up to a decent amount a year at my current job, and FML if I have to start somewhere new with like 10 days a year or something again. Or more likely no benefits at the types of jobs most available around here.)

    1. Just a Ghost*

      And to clarify, I am hourly, not salaried. (Though any sane org would have this position salaried.) So it would literally be illegal for my boss to expect me to see and act upon any work related email while I’m not clocked in. I just don’t think she noticed I not only wasn’t there this week but also that she had approved and I’d noted my PTO in the appropriate places. I shouldn’t have seen the email but my anxiety is way higher when I don’t know what’s in there. So for my own mental health I look but don’t reply when I’m not on the clock.

    2. RagingADHD*

      An evaluation is not sworn testimony in court. You don’t have to say anything substantive if you think it would do more harm than good.

  101. Time to move on*

    I’ve got a dilemna. A long-term client loves my work but wants to reduce my hours by 1/3 thinking they’ll get the same results by moving some of what they consider non-core responsibilies to untrained staff without my high level of experience and expertise. (Not accurate and I am already looking for a new client or a staff job). It’s a nonprofit and I bring in about half the agency’s revenues.
    I’m only a couple years away from retirement (which they don’t know) and am reeling about losing a lot of my income now when I am trying to put more money into savings.
    They think I can give a little bit of info to a 23 year old and have them produce high quality nuanced work for a lot less money.
    I need to preserve as much income as I can until I can replace it somwhere else. Does anyone have advice on how to handle this to keep as many hours as possible until I get out?

    1. PX*

      Can you try to finagle some kind of consultation fees to begin with? Or even increase your rates for the remaining hours? Frame it as “while you transition to the new model I’ll still need to review the output to make sure it meets your standards so while the hours are fewer I need XXX increase for the increased responsibility”?

    2. RagingADHD*

      I’m pretty sure they don’t expect the same level of work from the inexperienced person, but they are willing to compromise to save money.

      In the short term, you could try explaining that training the new person is going to require time, so even if you’re only producing 2/3 of the work, that extra 1/3 is needed for training time.

  102. Time to move on*

    I like that. I already raised my rates by $5/hour, which after 15 years of increased responsibilities just about keeps pace with inflation and that’s it.
    I’ve needed to leave for a while. I’ve been frustrated for quite a long time with the co-executive directors ignoring my emails requesting information I need to do my job. I’ll have three emails in a week with no response. Their decision will cost them money. I’m the grants person and they want to pass grant reports on to low level staff. Grant reports are important to impress funders to get renewals, increases and multi-year contracts. They know that, but if these are their decisions, this is their price.
    Yesterday the ED told me it’s hard for her when I’m mad at her. So in other words, when I complain about what not getting what I need to do my job, it hurts her feelings!

    1. Jen*

      It’s super frustrating when you don’t get information you need to do your job.
      On the flip side, there is an expectation not to display anger at work as part of professionalism. I know the ED seems petty, and maybe she is, but the important thing is how you present yourself, not whether she’s petty or not.
      If you don’t get information you need for your job, the most you can do is let your boss know you don’t have the information, let the person you’re asking know you don’t have the information, and possibly escalate it to the person you’re asking’s boss or boss’s boss if that is something people do where you work. (Each time mentioning that you can’t do XYZ if you don’t get what you need.) Be specific, not general. Sounds like you’ve already done this so you should be at peace about it. It’s now on them, not you, if they ignore it. One last thing you can do is try to calmly tell them over the phone or zoom instead of by email, so they can’t say they never saw your emails.
      About the hours, if they cut your hours and you don’t like it, the only thing that can be done is look for a job (and maybe file for unemployment?) Maybe they are expecting lower quality from a less experienced hire but are willing to try it anyway. Just keep up the quality work and either they realize it wasn’t worth it or you keep your good name while you look for something else.

      1. Time to move on*

        Thank you. That’s really good advice. I think I displayed frustration, not anger, but you’re right that it doesn’t belong at work. I work remotely, but I’ve met with her in peron and on Zoom to ask if there is a better way to communicate with her to get the information. She is the Executive Director, so she has no boss for me to go to. It’s just time for me to find a new job or client. This was such a big and sudden reduction, so ouch.

  103. AirKisses*

    This is a question specifically for American readers. I come from a culture where it is pretty standard to kiss hello (next to cheeks, not on lips), regardless of gender. In business settings, it is generally a more casual greeting among people you already know well. I work in the US for an American company with another office across the country.

    Someone from our other office also comes from my culture and will be visiting in a few weeks. We’ve met a few times, so kissing hello would be natural in our home country. Would you find it weird to see coworkers (one female, one male) greet each other this way? Would you feel differently if they were also speaking to each other in a non-English language?

    We probably won’t because it could lead to gossip within a niche industry, but I’m still curious to hear how Americans would react without context.

    1. Hatchet*

      Personally I don’t think it would be weird to see you greet each other this way. I’m in an industry where if people from one company (or office) are meeting up with those in another, some of us already know each other and may go way back (and thus might greet each other with a hug or a pat on the back), while others of us may be meeting for the first time and greet with a handshake.

      If I observed this, I might wonder if I needed to greet either of you in the same manner (cheek touch/cheek kiss) to show respect, or if a simple handshake would do.
      Hearing you both speak in the same non-English language would indicate to me that this was something limited to when both people are from your culture.

      If any of your coworkers ask (or dare try to start gossiping about it), I’d just do a quick and direct explanation (similar to what you did for us above) and clarify if they’d ever need to use the same greeting with you or the other coworker.

    2. David*

      As a US native, one of the things about living in a “melting pot” country like this one is that seeing other people engage in unfamiliar cultural traditions is pretty normal. In your case, you and your coworker kissing hello is “weird” in the sense of being unusual, but that “weirdness” is not inherently weird. So no, it’s not weird.

      Or at least that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory. In reality, people have different attitudes and you can’t take it for granted that they would think this way. Make sure to adjust this based on what you know of your coworkers’s attitudes.

  104. WillowSunstar*

    Just curious, we received a brief notice in our company newsletter about the potential for civil unrest in our company newsletter this week and a link to guidelines about what to do if caught up in a demonstration that turns violent. It also said our people leaders were going to talk to us. Did anyone else get such a notice?

    Fortune 500 company, grocery industry but my job is 100% remote, if that makes a difference. We did get essential employee letters to show to police right before the COVID lockdowns started, but I was in the office at that time.

    1. WillowSunstar*

      Allison may want to at least create some sort of post next week on this, as it is definitely a concern in the US. I’m not so sure about other countries, but my company is partially in Canada.

  105. Jaya*

    So updates on the job hunt: did two interviews this past week (got rejected for one, which wasn’t a surprise lol, the other was a round two and hoping to hear if it’s an aye or nay soon), attended an alumni event ten minutes away, and scheduled a meeting at an agency that hires for hotel staff. I’ve also gotten some more freelance gigs in for online work. So there has been decent and neutral news.
    Five and half months. That’s how long it has been. And obviously I’m still applying and interviewing. But I don’t know if it’s a me thing that despite doing one interview a week, I’m still nowhere closer than I was in May. And if it’s a me thing, what specifically needs to be fixed.

    1. Jen*

      Get some industry specific, experience level specific comparison data. If you are doing much worse than average, try to get someone (relative) to do a mock interview with you.

  106. Jen*

    I have a coworker who likes to point out people’s mistakes on a reply-all email. He has done this very often, not just on a one-time basis when it was actually necessary for everyone to know.

    I can tolerate when he points mine out, but this practice (which has since been copied once by another manager) has demotivated 2 of my analysts and I need to talk to him about it. Thoughts?

    1. 653-CXK*

      If they are small mistakes that can be remedied quickly and easily, then why on earth does this coworker think that embarrassing their coworkers for trivial mistakes personal hill to die on? “Praise publicly, criticize privately” is not in your co-worker’s vocabulary.

      Talk to the coworker and ask why they choose to sending reply-all emails when you or coworkers make mistakes, and if they can be sent privately from now on. If the coworker resists, tell them that it’s not their job to be the correction warden for the entire department, and there are two analysts who do not find the motivation to work because they fear another scolding email from this coworker. If you have a manager (or, if coworker is in a separate department, their own manager), raise this issue up and loop in the two analysts. The manager (either or yours or theirs) will short-circuit this power trip down quickly.

      1. 653-CXK*

        Eeks…

        then why on earth does this coworker think that embarrassing their coworkers for trivial mistakes makes it their personal hill to die on?

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