updates: reading in the car on work trips, employer wants my book money, and more

by Alison Green on November 14, 2024

Here are three updates from past letter-writers.

1. Is it rude to read in the car on work trips?

I have a happy update. I have been using your “I’m having trouble hearing from back here, shout out if you need me” language — so simple.

I am not normally an e-book reader but found it was much easier to politely read in the backseat on my phone vs. a physical book. So grateful I can read without getting carsick!

I also took many commenters’ advice and set the stage early in a trip with a low-key, “Hey, are you good with listening to (radio station)/ what music do you enjoy listening to?” When interests align, I have suggested playing safe-for-work humor or science podcasts, which has led to others sharing additional podcast recommendations for future drives.

There was one instance when a coworker requested no radio and was not seemingly interested in discussion. It was a very quiet seven-hour drive! But that’s just working with a variety of people.

A few commenters suggested working rather than reading a book. When needed, or if meetings overlap, I will work. But generally, working while actively traveling (outside of longer layovers) is not an expectation in my agency and I am glad for that.

Overall, my latest long drives with coworkers have been so much more comfortable. A good reminder for me how easy it can be to politely push back on workplace norms. Thank you!

2. My employer wants me to donate the proceeds of my book to them (#2 at the link)

First of all, thank you very much for your advice. It was good to know I wasn’t being unreasonable. It does seem like this varies a little bit, from what I could tell from the comments. Some commenters mentioned they would be required to donate the money in a situation similar to this.

Here’s what I replied to my employer with: “Thanks again for all this info. Most of this looks good to me. Because I’ll be working on this on my own time and not as a representative of the library, I don’t think I can agree to a requirement to donate any compensation I’m paid for the outside work. But, the rest of this all looks good to me, and I thank you for your support.”

The legal rep responded back by saying they took my point, but a conflict of interest includes a staff person using their position to obtain financial gain or privilege. They went on to say that we can reconvene after we determine the actual amount of money we’re talking about, because as some of the commenters mentioned, the compensation might be minimal or nil.

As happens with publishing, the book timeline has been pushed back many times so it’s still not published, and so I haven’t needed to figure out how I’m going to respond if / when I do get any compensation.

To answer some thoughts in the comments:
– In a happy twist for me, my question was published at the same time as a dog question, and so that question of course took all the heat of the comments.
– A couple people wondered why I had involved Legal at all. I think it would be a bad look if admin and Legal found out from anyone but me about my involvement in a profit-making book about librarianship. So I wanted to be the one to share that info.
– There was a lot of suspicion of my org’s legal department. They have been very supportive in general, and we’ve worked on many other things in the meantime with no hitches or touchy communications.
– I wanted to mention that I got the compensation amount that I was discussing ($2,000ish) by asking my co-author what she thought, as she has published with this publisher before on a similar topic.

3. Friend drama may collide with job hunt

I didn’t get the job and I’m still looking. But people may be interested to know that (as many people suspected would be the case) my relationship with Carol has not been negatively affected by my decision to distance myself from Jane. If anything, Carol and I are a bit closer now that I’m not expending time and energy on trying to get Jane’s attention, and I’ve learned that Carol has had similar experiences with Jane.

It was probably obvious to everyone but me that the interpersonal side of this situation was likely to play out that way, but I’m a rather anxious person and I guess sometimes you just need a dozen strangers on the internet to tell you, “If Carol is as sensible and chill as you think she is, this is probably gonna be fine.”

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{ 54 comments }

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  1. AnotherOne*

    OP2, I don’t think I saw your initial letter the when it was published. I don’t work in COI but my dept (at a university) frequently deals with when does COI care about license revenue.

    At our institution, the bar is $5k in a year from a single company to a single person (off the top of my head).

    The next time you are speaking with your employer’s legal dept I’d ask them specifically if there is a revenue amount from a single publisher in one year that would rise to a COI. (And to be clear, our employees get to keep the money over $5k, they are not expected to share it with their employer because it’s a COI- there is just additional reporting requirements.)

    I admit- my mind immediately went to what would your employer do if someone published a fiction novel about a librarian. I just imagine the legal dept’s mind exploding.

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    1. Stipes*

      I don’t understand how LW2 is conceivably “using their position to obtain financial gain” by writing a book, outside work hours. I would find it very hard not to write back and (politely as possible!) ask how they would interpret that rule in a way that it is relevant.

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      1. Caramel & Cheddar*

        I think the “using their position to obtain financial gain” part is that it’s likely the LW wouldn’t have been asked to contribute if they weren’t in the role they’re in, i.e. the publisher or whoever reached out to LW in LW’s capacity as a library employee working in youth librarianship, vs reaching out to a non-library employee who may have similar research expertise.

        I think Legal framing it as “using” their position is unhelpful here when they probably just mean that LW’s position is what lead to the opportunity in the first place when the publisher identified they’d be a great contributor. “Used their position” makes it sound underhanded or dishonest, when it very much does not sound like that’s the case, but sometimes legal language can sound worse than it actually is.

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        1. Governmint Condition*

          Yeah, the only thing I can think of that makes sense to me is if they believe that being a librarian gave LW access to the publisher that other authors would not have, giving them an unfair advantage.

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        2. Elizabeth the Ginger*

          It still feels wrong – like if the National Park Service demanded that author Nevada Barr, who writes mysteries set in National Parks, donate her earnings to the NPS because Barr’s experiences working as a park ranger led to her being able to write novels from that perspective.

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          1. Caramel & Cheddar*

            I think the equivalent here would be Nevada Barr being approached to write a book about national parks while still actively employed in one, but in either case I agree it’s ridiculous even though I can also see why the legal team think they have an angle there.

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          2. Snarkaeologist*

            The NPS can claim what employees produce if it’s related to (but not part of) their job. For example, I was told at multiple parks that any photos I took while employed there would be public domain, even if I was just hiking on my lunch break. Writing a trail guide would probably have fallen under the same rules.

            I think it would only have been an issue if someone was openly profiting on something that would have been a potential resource for the NPS.

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        3. Cloud Wrangler*

          I think this framing is important. It’s easy to think “It’s just a librarian, writing about library services.”

          But it falls into a larger world of COI. Think of the US Department of Defense, Food and Drug Administration, etc. There’s a lot of room for COI. I recently had to report some contract work I do that has nothing to do with my day job. But, I did have to answer the question of how I was selected to do the contract work. It’s not connected to my position.

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        4. MK*

          I disagree. “Using their position for financial gain” is a useful standard, but the legal department is misapplying it, using it too broadly. OP was likely approached because they are a youth librarian, not because they are a youth librarian in this specific organization. The first what they themselves are, the second their position; the publisher commissioned the book because of their expertise, not because they are employed in a specific organization. In my opinion, using their position would be something like booking a lecture tour as “youth librarian of X Library”.

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        5. Reading Rainbow*

          It’s an extremely lawyer-brained, unreasonable interpretation IMO (not you, to be clear, but where the library’s legal dept is coming from). I see how a similar situation in different circumstances could be a more difficult to handle COI, but it’s also a textbook case of “different things are different.” Yes, someone writing about their work while holding certain positions could be a conflict. But not in this one. A librarian being a specialized professional and therefore considered a reliable source of information about their profession such that they can write factual information about that profession in general is not, in any reasonable interpretation, a leveraging of one’s position at the organization for personal gain.

          Does it make sense to be documented and disclosed? Sure. But is it a true conflict of interest? Absolutely not. Should there be any restrictions on her compensation for her work on this book? Great googly moogly, no.

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        6. Starbuck*

          No, I’d imagine that they’d be more worried a publisher paying LW would make them more likely to purchase that publisher’s books for the library. Like a bribe. Or give the appearance of that.

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        7. Grumpy Elder Millennial*

          I’m not sure that there is good reason to believe that the LW wouldn’t have been asked to contribute if they weren’t in the job. Like, if they had recently left the job, would that have changed anything?

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      1. BluRae*

        This is the correct answer. And stop discussing the matter with opposing counsel (the work legal department) in the meantime.

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      2. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

        THANK YOU. I can’t believe they still don’t have their own lawyer! LW, please please please retain a lawyer that specializes in IP law!!!

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    3. Jessica*

      Speaking of novels, Dick Francis used his position as a jockey, and the expertise gained therein, to write quite a few of them. Should he have been turning over all his publishing revenues to the Jockey Club?

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      1. Cloud Wrangler*

        But was Dick Francis an employee of the Jockey Club? If not than no.
        That’s closer to a lawyer writing legal thrillers. They are using their knowledge, but not direct work product.

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  2. Dawn*

    LW2: I’m glad you haven’t had to deal with it yet, but I still want to reiterate that they’re not entitled to a red cent of that. Tell them that you’ve already agreed to donate the compensation to your college/university, because you used the education they provided you to earn this compensation, and see what they think of that.

    Ultimately I suppose the worst that could happen would be that they try to fire you for it, but I really strongly doubt it will come to that, especially because they’d look terrible if that landed in the media.

    That said, you could also just never mention to them any compensation you do receive, and at this point I doubt anyone will ever circle back to you about it.

    But seriously, don’t give them your money.

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    1. Grandparents are Great*

      I personally donate all of my earnings to my grandparents, who in turn birthed my parents and in their turn gave me all the genes that I use to move around and make money.

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  3. Richard Hershberger*

    Reading a paper book versus on your phone: I have invariably carried a book with me, just in case, from an early age. This typically was regarded as something between an idiosyncratic quirk and being antisocial. Then smart phones and ebook readers came out, and this changed. Where reading a book is seen as weird, reading your phone is normal. People assume you are checking football scores or doom scrolling or whatever. I recommend a dedicated ebook reader with e-ink. It really is a marvelous technology for books that are mostly text, though it doesn’t work so well for illustrations and charts and the like. A casual observer is unlikely to notice that this isn’t your phone, and it is more portable than a paper book.

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    2. Strive to Excel*

      I’ve found that the dedicated ebook readers have fragile screens, unfortunately. I went through three Kindles in 4 years before I finally got sick of having to replace them.

      Maybe they’ve improved since then?

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      1. Not The Earliest Bird*

        I’ve been pretty rough on my Kindle Paperwhite, and I’ve never had an issue. Before that it was a pretty early generation Kindle, and it wasn’t fragile at all.

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      2. Olive*

        I have a cover for my Kindle Paperwhite. It folds to protect both the front and the back and it’s worked great for me. The adjustable light is less obtrusive than a book light too.

        I started reading ebooks when I had a job that was 50%+ travel, they’re unbeatable for when you never know when you might be asked to go immediately to your next destination or to stay an extra week.

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      3. Artemesia*

        I have a beautiful leather cover that has fit my last two Kindles from Oberon Design — I love it and it does a great job protecting the kindles. I have never had to replace one due to damage.

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      4. Vincaminor*

        I have a Kobo Clara which dates to like 2016? 2017? That reader has been:
        – knocked off a chair arm onto gravel by a puppy
        – dragged and nibbled by said puppy (he was fascinated by it)
        – fumbled and dropped from various heights onto various surfaces, including screen-first. Most recently dropped from standing height onto tile at the airport, which popped the case open and required some careful straightening out of a corner of an internal metal plate to get it to close again.
        – all of this with no protective case or anything.
        I won’t pretend it doesn’t look a bit beat-up, but it still works just fine. The screen has some scratches, but never cracked.

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    3. Unkempt Flatware*

      Oddly, I was once in a waiting room reading a book on my phone when I looked up briefly to meet the angry gaze of an old lady who must have been waiting for me to do so so she could speak up. She was holding a paper book. “What is with you people being on your phones all day?! Can’t you do anything without your phone?!”.

      Pregnant pause with intense stare: “I’m reading a book. Just like you.”

      No apology or nothin’.

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      1. Artemesia*

        LOL. I got called out in a book group for ‘being on my phone’ — like you I blandly said I have the book we are discussing up on my Kindle app and am looking up the quote we were just referencing.

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  4. Not Your Pens*

    OP2 – If things do progress and you are paid for your work, I wouldn’t give them a dime. While I can understand that their COI policy might suggest that someone can’t use their position for financial gain, I find a couple of faults in that policy applying to you. First, and again, you’re putting in your own time, outside of work, to do what you’re doing. If you’re not receiving compensation of any sort, why would you do it? If they’re willing to let you spend work time on it, then maybe the expectation to pay it to the library makes sense, much like any check you’d get for jury duty. Second, it isn’t THAT much money. If the $2000 number is in the ballpark of what you’d receive, they’re not paying you a high rate for the amount of time you’re putting in. Plus, you’re going to have to pay taxes I assume. So take $2000 minus taxes, and you’re making even less for the work you’re putting in. Why are you expected to do this out of the goodness of your heart? And third, I can see the policy applying to someone who is being paid a fee for an appearance or speaking at a conference. Presumably you’d be prepping on work time, representing the library at the conference, and your appearance/presentation is tied directly to your workplace. Maybe I can see that fee being given back as a donation.

    Worse comes to worse, just tell them you weren’t paid.

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  5. I should really pick a name*

    #2
    I don’t see any reason to tell them how much compensation you receive in the first place.

    Couldn’t hurt to have a conversation with a lawyer. They could suggest what to say if they bring up the subject again.

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  6. Allegra*

    LW2, I’d suggest checking out the Authors Guild site and their materials to see if there’s anything that might be helpful (I’m fairly sure they do nonfiction but less sure about academic publishing if this is in that area); they have resources for legal advice as well, and it seems like you might be heading in that direction. I’d encourage you to still push back but to do so with legal advice of your own that’s in step with norms in your field, and the Authors Guild might be able to connect you with that.

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  7. HB*

    Some lawyers like to take things too literally, and some do the opposite. LW2, I’d ask legal if it would be a conflict of interest for you to interview at other libraries with your current job listed on your resume and then accept an offer with better pay and then resign from your current job. Technically that would be using your position to obtain financial gain.

    Using your position for financial gain or privilege means trading on the Title instead of the Work (i.e. the thing the job/employer gives you, not the thing you give to it). It might also mean the *specialized* knowledge you acquired through the position if in fact it’s super specialized and can only be obtained through that role/employer. Note that in the other thread the best example of people being required to donate was from museum workers – specifically things on lecture series/speaking engagements, etc. Now think of how most conferences, lectures series, etc advertise their speakers: they want the people with the biggest/brightest *current* roles (though past roles will sometimes also work if they’re sufficiently big enough and you don’t have anyone current at a similar level). Basically the question is “Would I still be offered this if I had the exact same knowledge/experience but worked as Low Level [Position] at Random Unsexy Job #3 instead of Director at Super Sexy Institute Everyone Knows About.” If the answer is clearly No, then it’s a potential COI. If the answer is very clearly yes, then it might *still* be a COI depending on the particulars of the situation since even if you didn’t *have* to trade on the inherent clout of the position it may not be obvious to everyone else that you didn’t. Conflicts of interest are much more about how things appear than how things are.

    Books can be similar if, again, what the publisher is trying to purchase from you is the ability to advertise/market on the *name* of your current/past employers not just that you worked at certain levels at certain places. My guess is that’s not the case here. Maybe I’m just not up to date in the world of libraries but I can’t think of a marketing plan designed around the idea that they’re putting out the the Brand New Tell All History from the Very Important Person at Very Famous Library.

    To put it in a different context… In school I had a really hard time for a while when it came to distinguishing “common knowledge” from “citing your sources.” How did I know what I knew and if I didn’t know how I knew it, whom should I reference so I wouldn’t be accused of plagiarism? Honestly I don’t even know how I got through that phase other than waiting till the very last minute to write assignments so I didn’t have time to worry about it. But ultimately I think it boils down to a question of figuring out whether you need to appeal to a higher authority to get someone to accept something as fact, or at least a possibility.

    So a COI is more likely to occur if people only believe you because they think your Employer is the source of your authority. Think “Oh, they must know what they’re talking about because so-and-so hired them” as opposed to “they must know what they’re talking about because they’ve been doing this for 10 years.”

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    1. Not Your Pens*

      I love your first paragraph. That is a great point, and maybe helps shine a light on just how ridiculous the interpretation of the policy is.

      Also, if someone is knowledgeable about a topic, there may not be a way to “prove” that the knowledge they’re contributing to a book came from one single source. It could be, but that depends on the employee’s circumstance. I could see that there would be some legitimate concern if some type of IP that the LW created for their present employer was being used for this book. But based on their contribution – research, editing, composition – I can’t see how that’s any sort of IP that the library can claim.

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    2. metadata minion*

      “Maybe I’m just not up to date in the world of libraries but I can’t think of a marketing plan designed around the idea that they’re putting out the the Brand New Tell All History from the Very Important Person at Very Famous Library.”

      I could imagine that, but there are maybe 10 libraries in the world I can imagine it applying to — the Bodleian, the New York Public Library, maybe the Boston Public Library… basically the libraries that significant numbers of people can name who don’t live in the local area.

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  8. Astor*

    LW2: I strongly encourage you to find out what’s normal in your field before pushing back too hard. It’s plausible to me that legal etc is handling this to their benefit and you should be able to keep the money. However, it’s also plausible to me that if your participation in the book uses your current position to leverage authority then there are COI considerations that your field might be more careful about than others. It may also be that you have to ask the right question, like “if I remove any mention of our institution, does that resolve the COI considerations?” This can really go in multiple directions, and you might need to ask around.

    But don’t assume you’re right even if you should be. If you push back, you want to know if you’re pushing back on a rogue few folks or an established norm.

    Good luck!

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  9. Garrett*

    I could not do a 7-hour car ride in complete silence. I’m fine not talking but I need some music. Especially if I’m driving.

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    2. KateM*

      And I found it excruciating when once my passengers (bunch of kids) asked me to switch on music because driving in quietness was excruciating for them. If the drive had been any longer I would have switched it off again but my suffering was short enough. Ultimately I think it should be the decision of the driver – whatever is best for them to keep their attention on road.

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      3. WellRed*

        I agree it should be drivers choice. I also think 7 hours of actively not speaking to the person next to you and just listening to them breathe and sniffle sounds excruciating.

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    3. I guess my entire company was the real work wife the whole time.*

      When I’m driving, I need to not have the radio on because it’s distracting. The only alternative is the one album I know so well it’s not at all distracting. But it happens to be by a musician whose voice is so polarizing I’ve been asked to turn her off more than any other musician I’ve ever tried to share with people.

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  10. Anne of Green Gables*

    I’m a librarian, and my book will be published next month. I am currently at a large community college but worked in public libraries for a decade.

    When approached by the editor back in 2022 about writing the book, my co-author and I checked with our boss about anything we needed to know. Our concern was more in the form of secondary employment, which does have to be approved. We didn’t really hear anything back, so we moved forward. Ultimately, it is in our employer’s favor to have their staff involved in this kind of thing, they use it as a point of pride/PR. There has been no mention of signing over any money to the college, nor would I.

    What worries me most about Letter #2 is that the legal department wants to wait and sort it out later. I would not do that. I would ask, as another commentor suggested, what the threshold is for the employer to expect a part of the compensation.

    I also have issue with their implication that writing the book means you used your employment for gain. Yes, you are going to gain skills at any job. I can tell you that were I to have left my job halfway through writing my book and remained unemployed, my editor would not have cared. They cared about the knowledge I had and my ability to write a coherent sentence, not where I was employed.

    I’m not sure if this is in “get a lawyer” territory but I would absolutely continue to push back, try to resolve this now and NOT after the book has been published, and would not give them a dime.

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    1. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

      In a normal publishing situation, the author’s agent would handle things like this, but it doesn’t seem like LW has one. They need a lawyer, at least to draft a letter stating that they don’t owe the library proceeds.

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      1. Anne of Green Gables*

        In this kind of niche area, agents are not a thing. These are books with a narrow focus mostly within a single profession. This is not agent territory.

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  11. Wallaby, Well I'll Be*

    LW2, I am begging you to please stop communicating with your employer’s legal counsel, and retain your own IP lawyer. Please don’t agree in writing to opposing counsel things like “This all looks good to me.” I am so worried about you now!

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    1. Annie2*

      She says her expectation of profit is maybe $2,000 over two years. I say this as a lawyer – the cost/benefit analysis of retaining an IP lawyer doesn’t check out!

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  12. Sunny*

    LW2 – I’d ask legal if they’re going to pay you overtime for all the hours you put in on this book. Since their approach is basically “all your work, ideas, and expertise related to libraries belong to us,” then they should be compensating you for those hours.

    I sound facetious, but I’m not. They have their hands out for money you’ve earned outside business hours, which tells me they that as employment time. So they should be paying you overtime.

    Agree with all the comments about getting a lawyer, stat. No matter how nice your legal team is and how cooperative they are on other matters, their ultimate obligation is to the library, not to you. You should also consult with an author’s guild or other similar professional association.

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  13. IPRights*

    Different companies have different IP clauses. Some claim ownership of anything you do, period, even on your own time/not using their equipment. Some claim anything you do at any time on their equipment or on any equipment while on the clock. Some only claim anything you do while on the clock. Some do have the differentiation of related to company business (not necessarily your job) at any time but it’s rare. This is often something you can negotiate when you accept a job, but it’s likely too late for you.

    Reply ↓

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