was it reasonable to fire a new hire who was too overwhelmed to work on day 3?

by Alison Green on November 7, 2024

A reader writes:

The clinic I work for filled a medical receptionist position. The new hire had worked as a receptionist for other offices for over 18 years. Sure, they had to learn the ropes of a new EHR (electronic health record) program, but they should already know enough to not be so overwhelmed that they had to call in, right?

On the third day of employment the new hire called in, stating that they “were too overwhelmed and needed to regroup.” They were going to take the day to get their notes together and would come in the next day. I, as the training manager, asked that they come in and offered to help them organize their notes and answer any questions. They refused. There was not any sign of remorse or promises to be more dependable.

For only two days in, the new hire had been doing well. But training was just the basics at that point. We had not even gotten to the vast amount of information required to fully do the job. And training for any job is a bit overwhelming, but that is part of the training process, right? If the employee was too overwhelmed to even come into work, it would no doubt be far worse down the line.

Yes, there was a chance that they would work out and be the ideal employee. But after having been burned one too many times wasting time and resources and wary of any red flag, our administration team decided it was best to terminate them instead of waiting for what seemed like the inevitable – having an unreliable or easily overwhelmed employee.

Is this a reasonable response? The individual had quit their job to start the new position at our clinic. But they were the one to call in for their shift. Is it reasonable to terminate such an employee within their first week because you are not “sure”?

It’s not unreasonable to be very alarmed that a new hire called out on day three because two days of training had been too much and they needed to “regroup.”

I’d be alarmed by that too.

I think ideally you would have talked with them in person the next day (assuming they did come in the next day) and tried to get a better understanding of what was going on. Who knows, maybe it wasn’t just about the job but also outside stuff as well … but absent any additional details like that, it’s a pretty major red flag and I don’t think it was unwarranted to just decide to cut your losses at that point.

I am curious about what the rest of the picture looked like: was this someone with strong references and a history of solid stays at previous jobs? If so, I’d be a lot more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least as far as having a conversation with them before deciding anything (as well as to wonder if something had happened during those two days that you didn’t know about yet).

But with the person not offering up any additional info about what was going on, even after you asked that they come in and said you’d sit and help them, I can’t deem your management team’s response unreasonable.

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{ 153 comments }

{ 153 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. GoodNPlenty*

    Good call. The person self selected out of a job. I worked in a fast paced nursing environment which was night shift. When new hires showed they were unable to handle the hours (not getting daytime sleep, falling asleep on the job) we’d move to termination quickly. We had found if we propped them up, gave lots of chances, we’d end up firing them later on anyway.

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    1. Goldenrod*

      Came here to say this. At a hospital I worked at, any nurse who was a problem during training week was fired pretty swiftly.

      Same reason: experience had shown that people who were problematic during training were going to stay that way.

      I also worked at a school where one of the lecturers never allowed students to add her class late. She said that adding late wasn’t really the problem per se – it was that she found, through experience, that students adding late often caused all kinds of OTHER problems too.

      In my opinion, more of these kinds of situations should be nipped in the bud early – so I think you did 100% the right thing! As someone who is always overwhelmed when they start a job…I think this person’s behavior is pretty outrageous and unacceptable. I doubt they would have gotten better. You did everyone a favor.

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      1. Lenora Rose*

        I can understand that for nursing, it’s a high-stress career that requires a lot of fast adaptation.

        However, not allowing anyone to add classes late regardless of reason would have screwed me entirely out of a year of education when my Grandma heard I was going to take a year off to get the funds together rather than take on more student loans, and sent me a cheque two days into the term. Unless this was also a highly technical field or an extremely compressed class like some summer terms, I can’t see an excuse for that for a lecture.

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    2. Malarkey01*

      Different industry but also one that requires a really good fit and we have the same approach. If it’s not working in training, we save everyone’s time because experience has shown it won’t work out and we’ll have wasted everyone’s time and resources (and the chance for errors is too high).

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    3. Richard Hershberger*

      Back when I was vastly young, I got fired a week into a job as an EMT for an ambulance company. In retrospect, it was the right call.

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  2. Dawn*

    Yeah, that’s…

    If nothing else I’d expect a brand new hire to know better than to admit that they’re staying home on day three because they’re overwhelmed. The fact that they didn’t/couldn’t come up with anything a little less concerning would, itself, be a strike against them for me. It shows a real lack of judgment.

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      1. Dawn*

        The one time I did this, it was “I’m so sorry, I know how bad this looks, but working in a new office with new people I seem to have run into a bug I’ve never had before and I’m just in no condition to make it in today.” New office, new exposures is something people get.

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        2. Richard Hershberger*

          Yup. That happened to me once. It was fine. There was a bug that was going around the office, so my boss was not surprised it hit me. I bounced back and worked there for several years.

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      2. Retired early Miss the money*

        Sore throat and/or earache. They can come on quickly and go away just as quickly legitimately.

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    2. Guacamole Bob*

      This. Someone calls in and is apologetic about calling out so soon into a new job but they’re really not feeling well (which sounds like it may even have been true, from a mental health standpoint)? Maybe a sign to keep an eye on reliability but not a huge deal. Needing to “regroup” and not showing any sign that they realize this is not a normal professional reaction to a couple days of training? Something is off.

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      1. Boof*

        I can’t help but think if one is overwhelmed with training, the thing to do is go in and talk about it and break it down/work through it, not just bail! I agree it’s a bad sign that they’re not equipped to handle the almost certain stresses of being a medical receptionist – but it’s surprising someone with an 18 year work history would do this, almost want the follow up conversation out of shear curiosity / what the heck – not that you’re ever guaranteed an answer

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        1. Sloanicota*

          I think they didn’t like what they saw of the job, TBH. Maybe they were hoping it would be more different from their last job and it’s the exact same, or maybe it’s TOO different, or they didn’t like the office vibe, or whatever.

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          1. StarTrek Nutcase*

            IDK I have certainly “wanted” to call out in the first few days (or even weeks) of a new job for being overwhelmed, but never did. It was especially hard when going from a job I was confident in to a new one where I felt stupid at first. But with lots of self-talk I did go in and recognized each day was getting slightly (even minisculely) better.

            IME LW made the right and only call by firing this employee. As her trainer, I wouldn’t want to waste more time especially knowing days 1 & 2 weren’t a full press. As a manager, it would be next to impossible for me to ever trust the employee’s reliability or judgement.

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        2. SadieMae*

          This reminds me of the time I called my gynecologist’s office to make an appointment for an endometrial biopsy.

          The receptionist said, “Um, I’m new here and I don’t know what that is, so I don’t know how much time to schedule. What exactly is it?”

          “They take a narrow tube and put it through your cervix to collect some tissue from the uterine lining,” I said.

          “Oh my GOD!” she exclaimed. “That sounds AWFUL!!!”

          “Well, it does hurt, but they need to make sure–” I started to reply.

          “I mean, they put a TUBE up in there??” she continued.

          And so on. I managed to talk her down and get the appointment scheduled, but I thought, lady, being a receptionist in an OB/GYN’s office is the wrong gig for you if it alarms you this much to hear about painful medical procedures! I was picturing her going into total meltdown every time someone called to say they were in labor…

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      1. BatManDan*

        what was weird to me, is that they said they were basically going to WFH. I mean, they were going to dictate their own work structures, and be unavailable for any NEW material, but if you really are going to work, why would you call in “overwhelmed” instead of going to the office and saying “too much too fast, can I have a day/ half-day to organize and process what I’ve already encountered?”

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    4. Smithy*

      Completely agree.

      I do think one of the red flags for me would be their overall professionalism and exactly what kind of environment they came from. I’ve been at my job now for about 4 years, have a solid reputation with my supervisor, and recently I had a situation where I took too much nighttime cold medicine and was really feeling out of it the next day and felt comfortable telling her that.

      However, that’s because of the nature of our relationship now. First week on the job, it would have been “so sorry, have xyz sudden illness”. Especially for someone with 18 years of experience, this just makes me wonder more about where they came from and the overall professional norms there.

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      1. MigraineMonth*

        Oh man, that reminds me when I’d only been at a job for a few months and had to explain to my manager that I’d had a bad reaction to my *non-drowsy* cold medication after I fell asleep in a 5-person meeting with them. I’m surprised I made it home on the first try, since I also fell asleep on the bus home.

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    5. Serious Silly Putty*

      I hear ya on the judgement thing, but also:
      This is what many neurodivergent people HATE about navigating a neurotypical space. You’re supposed to lie?! But if you’re caught lying it’s shameful… so you have to frame thing such that they walk away with the wrong information but that you can’t be too blamed. But…

      So, yeah, it looks better to have a stomach bug, but I wouldn’t say it’s better judgement to be dishonest.

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      1. TheCakeIsALie*

        I understand what you’re saying, but I feel like that’s a different situation. That’s a different kind of medical accommodation that could be explained “I have a medical condition that requires XY accommodations to deal with.” Or something to that effect. This person refused reasonable requests to discuss the situation and seek another solution.

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        1. Nobby Nobbs*

          Huh? Serious Silly Putty didn’t say anything about asking for an accommodation for being neurodivergent. They said the social norm around lying being more advisable but only if you don’t get caught in this case is nonintuitive.

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      2. Santiago*

        I think your point is valid but I also think it’s meaningful to say that most neurotypical people don’t see it as lying. If you say “I’m so sorry but I really don’t feel well today! I hate to put you in this situation, but I won’t be able to make it in.” that’s 1) still true, but 2) it doesn’t reveal information that suggests a non-understanding of the commitment of starting a new job. I’m sure the second one is difficult for neurodiverse people, because it pertains to social context, but just figured it was worth chiming in on the “lying” comment.

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      4. Slimboy Fat*

        Hmm, no, that’s not the same thing at all and not the right takeaway at all (fellow ND here who’s also been burned by NT workplace expectations, and even I’m like “LOL what???” when reading this letter).

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  3. Amy*

    Honestly I’d be taking a look at the job requirements and description to make sure the title of ‘receptionist’ fits the bill. Many years ago I worked for an understaffed trucking company and when they tried to hire someone to help me, there were 2-3 temps (temp to perm job) that never came back after a day or two. One was overheard telling someone on the phone that what she was doing was nothing like what she was told she’d be doing. 24 years later, with age and maturity under my belt, I can look back and say she was right.

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    1. goddessoftransitory*

      This is very true. Reception and other support positions too often become the odd sock drawer of companies with tons of random duties tossed in because it’s easier than rearranging how everybody else does things.

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    2. Miss Chanandler Bong*

      That’s what I was thinking. I would expect a receptionist to be answering the phones, checking people in, etc. Basic computer, phone, and customer service skills.

      When OP said “vast amounts of information” that was a flag to me that maybe this job is more fast paced and requires more knowledge than a typical receptionist position, more like office administrator. In which case, the description should reflect that (and the person should be paid accordingly).

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      1. Lirael*

        A medical receptionist role is slightly different from a receptionist role, though. I think it’s a standard part of a medical receptionist job to deal with patient health records (and OP specifically mentions learning the electronic health record system). My impression is that the job involves a lot of acronyms and terminology, which can be a learning curve, but it doesn’t mean it’s an office administrator role that’s mislabeled. It’s just what a medical receptionist is.

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        1. Smithy*

          This was a long time ago, but my first job out of undergrad was as a part-time receptionist for a psychology group and that job had all of that – including calling insurance companies around coverage. Inevitably the volume and expanse of what is required can make any job feel overwhelming – but at least for medical receptionists, that is more standard.

          To the point of my job, as this was a small private practice and not part of a larger group or hospital – there was still down time. So it’s not off base to see someone go from a lot of experience at that pace, move into a considerably faster paced or more complex environment and feel really out of the their depth.

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        2. Bekah*

          Lirael is correct. The position was for a medical receptionist. They had over 18 years in that same position – other medical offices. I also make it extremely clear that I will remain with them and by their side and lead them through all the processes until they are comfortable and I am confident that they can work independently.

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        3. Ellis Bell*

          I think the misunderstanding is due to exactly that; both the company and the new hire have wrongly equated “medical receptionist” with “receptionist”. If you hire a garden variety receptionist into a medical receptionist’s role *and* expect their prior experience to help them get through the training and “vast amounts of information”, you’re going to end up with a very overwhelmed new employee. That’s not to dispute the decision they ultimately made; it clearly wasn’t a great fit on either side.

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            1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

              I wonder. I know that the employee was interviewed and was there for two days, but I wonder if her previous jobs were watered down versions. First job after college, “llama groomer 1” in head office. Transferred to satellite office, same title. But not the same work. I went from being the newest of four people in the job to the only one in the job. And the satellite office had more hands on support of llama feeders and llama trainers. It included things I’d never done in my previous job at at all. Did the employee perhaps leave a bigger place with redundant and/or specialized “medical receptionist” positions and is just in over her head after doing parts A, B but not C or D in 18 years.

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    3. CTT*

      That’s a possibility, but I do think of a medical office receptionist as being a different role from a standard office receptionist – they are having to deal with patient info and the EMR systems to check people in, make sure info is up to date, deal with patient questions.

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    4. Anita Brake*

      Yes, I was thinking this too. I’d have probably given them a day of grace before reacting, and then taken the time to meet with them to instead respond to their concerns, rather than firing them at the first issue. I wouldn’t think that would look very good to your other employees, who might assume they are not safe calling out now, or that the workplace is more stern and harsh than they thought. Plus, you’re now putting more work on those same other employees who were finally getting something off their plates, until you find and hire someone else.

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      1. Jennifer Strange*

        Plus, you’re now putting more work on those same other employees who were finally getting something off their plates, until you find and hire someone else.

        The employee was only on her third day and was in the midst of training. It’s unlikely she had taken anything off anyone else’s plate. Also, keeping someone who needed to take off after day three due to being overwhelmed likely would have consistently added more to their plates than cutting the ties now and getting someone else in who can do that job would.

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    5. Bekah*

      We have learned that lesson long ago. We go over, in detail, what the responsibilities are and the cross training tasks that would be required. We do this in the interview and again when doing onboarding.

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      1. Margaret Cavendish*

        You did the right thing. Maybe they just needed one day to regroup and they would have come back on day 4 and been the best medical receptionist you’ve ever seen for another 18 years. Or maybe they really were overwhelmed, and you’d spend a ton of time handholding and coaching and reassuring them, only to have them continue to suck at the job and you’d have to fire them anyway.

        Either is possible, but which is more likely? And how much time are you willing to sink into finding out? Sounds like you already knew the answer to that! Don’t doubt yourself – your intuition and your experience were bang on.

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    6. sofar*

      I’m laughing because my first job out of college (while I hunted for my “career job”) was as a receptionist at a mom-and-pop property management company. Job description listed answering phones, filing paperwork, entering payments received from tenants in a database, making copies, and keeping the shared kitchen tidy.

      On day 2, they asked me to start doing accounting work (bookkeeping!). They were surprised I didn’t know how. At no point in the interview/job description did this ever come up. I’m pretty sure the person I replaced just happened to be able to do it all, and they genuinely thought that was normal to hire someone to clean the kitchen AND do bookkeeping.

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  4. goddessoftransitory*

    Cutting bait now was the right decision.

    Not every person is cut out for every job or how job duties are structured. I used to train new hires where I work, and it was 100% clear who was able to handle it and who wasn’t by the end of one or two days. Most of the ones who couldn’t just quit, but we did have to let a couple people go after a week of daily training if they still weren’t grasping the basics.

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  5. StressedButOkay*

    It’s the refusal to come in when asked and given the chance to have someone help them work through what was overwhelming. That part really threw me.

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    2. Saturday*

      Same here. It made me wonder if the person had already decided not to come in that day and used the idea of organizing notes to sound more engaged with the job. Either way – not good.

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      1. tokei*

        Right, it’s such a bizarre thing to admit to that it almost sounds like THAT was the lie, and she thought something job-related would sound better than being sick (or, like, having some kind of other plans that she didn’t inform them of at the hiring stage.) Strange situation!

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        1. Pinta*

          Yes, now my mind is spinning tales on what really may have happened that the person felt that the “organizing notes” sounded like a better option in the moment. Humorously, I’m thinking of bizarre medical mishaps that someone might feel awkward telling a new job about. More seriously, I might be worried that the person was the victim of a crime or other unsettling incident.

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    3. Learn ALL the things*

      I agree with this. I wouldn’t hold it against a new hire if they came to me and said “I’m feeling a little overwhelmed by all the information I’m getting in training. Can we set aside some time to go over it so I can make sure I understand?” But refusing to come to work because they’re overwhelmed by training feels like an entirely different level.

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      1. Bekah*

        This!! I already take the time after each new step to allow for any questions they may have thought of. I told them that I have numerous resources for different learning styles. When they voiced their uncertainty on day 2, I told them I would always be honest with them, that for day 2 they were doing well, and that we would keep doing repetition to make them more comfortable.

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  6. Stormfeather*

    Maybe I’m alone in this, but if someone with 18 years of experience in that particular job came in two days and was “doing well” in training and needed a day on the third day because they were overwhelmed, I’d be wondering about the job itself, or training methods.

    Not that that’s 100% it of course, I noticed it just said “in offices” and not medical, and maybe it’s a matter of a medical receptionist just having a much harder time by the nature of the position or whatever. But I’d at least be thinking about the specific job and taking a look at it/the training.

    At the very least I’d want to talk to the person and see what they had to say about it.

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    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I read it as other medical offices despite it not explicitly saying “medical” but even in that case I think there are probably lots of explanations for why this job might be so different, e.g. has she worked in smaller offices before that had fewer patients, were patients scheduled differently at the past office and it’s hard getting a hang of how they schedule at this one, did she use a completely different software at previous jobs, is she used to working primarily by phone and everyone at this clinic emails appointment requests, etc. It could be none of those, it could be all of them, but I think most of us know from our own experiences as patients that no two clinics are going to be the same.

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      1. Bekah*

        That’s a good thought. The new hire had worked with a smaller private medical practice. Our office has 4 physicians, 1 PA, and a walk-in clinic. But again, this is made abundantly clear during the interview and onboarding process. It is also repeatedly reminded of how the training is going to take time, but we realize this and will be there every step of the way. It really was mind boggling for the new hire to refuse to come in when I officially to help.

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        1. Ellis Bell*

          I have to wonder if the professional culture was very different too, just because of how weird it is to think you can just opt out of a training day at a new job, and to flatly refuse help. My only theories are 1) possibly she self managed at these smaller places and was allowed to be a law unto herself, or 2) that she already decided the job was not for her, didn’t need the paycheck, and wanted to start on job hunting straight away, or 3) She has no impulse control or professional diplomacy when she feels overwhelmed or feels like she wants to skip work. I can’t come up with a reason that presents her as a sad loss to you. I know you’re worried about what this says about you as a trainer, but it’s really more of a reference check issue about who you’re hiring, or just one of those unforeseeable mismatches.

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        2. Lena*

          I’m a medical receptionist/secretary for the last decade. Where I work now is the easiest job I’ve ever had, and my last job was incredibly difficult juggling multiple surgeons and very busy clinics. Someone who had only been working somewhere easy like my current job would be extremely overwhelmed if they went to my old one. Very different. I think you’re right go to down the path of considering terminating this person, it’s a very bad sign of what they’ll be like in the future when stressed!

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    3. ThursdaysGeek*

      I was wondering if it was office or offices. Because someone who has been at the same job for a long time – sometimes it is a bit overwhelming to suddenly be so ignorant of absolutely everything. I mean, it should be expected too, but it is hard to go from competence to ignorance, and sometimes people forget that bit.

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    4. Sloanicota*

      Eh, it could just as easily be a mental health/burnout thing – started a new role too quickly and isn’t into it – or they don’t like the supervisor or the vibes or – a hundred different things, but I wouldn’t take them too literally when they say the training was too overwhelming to come into work. I do agree that they probably weren’t going to work out. If it happens more than once I’d change my mind though.

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    5. Malarkey01*

      Honestly if it’s not a good fit for WHATEVER reason, fair enough, but time to cut bait. There’s a lot of speculation on these threads about whether the employer is right or wrong, maybe there’s some deep problem at the org…the way this person acted wasn’t normal and frankly someone doing that is going to be a PITA. Don’t prolong it.

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  7. Caramel & Cheddar*

    Honestly I think the red flag here isn’t that she was feeling overwhelmed, it was how she handled feeling overwhelmed. It’s incredibly out of the ordinary to just not show up on your third day; in fact, it’s so out of the ordinary that we’ve had letters here in the past where people have tremendous guilt even calling in sick the first week on a new job even if they genuinely should.

    But instead of coming in (prior to you telling her she should) and addressing that, she just … didn’t. Was there a reason she thought being in every day during her first week was optional?

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    1. Former Finance Lady*

      I have complicated feelings about this. Calling out due to overwhelm so early and refusing to come in when asked are definitely red flags. However, the letter’s tone is so aggressive and dismissive that I find myself inadvertently siding with the receptionist anyway. I’m left with questions about culture, which could certainly lead to overwhelm.

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      2. Anita Brake*

        That is a good point, Former Finance Lady. I couldn’t really put my finger on why I was siding with the new employee, but I think this is it. The tone seems to “Laa-dee-dah, another one bites the dust.”

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      3. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I wonder if so much had been thrown at her so fast that she, literally, needed to regroup and organize better to even retain anything more, and being rammed through it roughshod was going to make the situation even worse.

        I know when I ask for time and someone tries to just push me forward anyway, my instinct is to disengage and disconnect.

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      4. Bekah*

        I work so hard to make sure they feel comfortable and take the time to check in with them multiple times throughout the day to see if they have questions, if they want me to review something, etc. We have have 4 other employees that work the same position that have had the same training and have been there for 2+ years. And the clinic we work for has the best physicians that truly appreciate the employees.

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      5. RagingADHD*

        It seems odd to me that it reads that way to you. It reads to me simply as a straightforward summary.

        I don’t think one can assume that the way a manager sums up a problem to a third party reflects the way they routinely interact with their employees. “Get advice from a disinterested person” communication mode is entirely different from “Have managerial conversations with a struggling employee” mode.

        I don’t think offering to help the new hire organize their notes, answer questions one-on-one, and (as mentioned in replies) sit with them while they practice, point to an aggressive or dismissive attitude.

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        1. Saturday*

          Yeah, I didn’t get aggressive or dismissive from the letter at all. If LW was dismissive, would she still be thinking about their decision and wondering if it was the right one? I doubt it.

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        2. Mentally Spicy*

          I find this all the time, as someone who has ADHD with a side order of autism. I know I am incredibly bad at spotting subtext but I am always blown away by people who seem to be seeing subtext where there just isn’t any.

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      6. Boof*

        I’m going to say this is probably medical culture – professional communications are brusk and to the point. It’s out of necessity because you have to do 100s of communciations throughout the day, you want it to be efficient – meaning both precise and brief.
        LWs tone seemed perfectly ok for me in this letter! I’m not sure what you think would make it better?

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        1. The Prettiest Curse*

          Yes, medical communication is exactly like this – I found it difficult to get used to at first when I was in a role that sometimes involved working with nurses. Then I realised they were abrupt because they often need to get information fast or someone might die. But since the new hire had previously worked in the field, they would presumably be familiar with communication norms.

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      7. AnonForThis*

        I get where you’re coming from, Former Finance Lady. Something about this situation had the unfortunate side effect of reminding me of someone who’s training style is to provide more information about the peripherals than the need to know and would absolutely insist on “helping” you sort through your notes just to show you how superior they are.

        I’m not saying the LW is like that, I’m sure they’re not. But after encountering one person like that I more than understand the compulsion to run to avoid it again. That said, I agree with those who’ve said the receptionist didn’t handle this well.

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    2. Hroethvitnir*

      I agree. I read the title and was like “yikes”, but calling out and refusing to come in is wild.

      I do unserstand Former Finance Lady’s reservations here though. It certainly could be an “everyone is wrong” situation.

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  8. Chairman of the Bored*

    Unless they had a rare and desirable skill set or were otherwise *very* difficult to replace I would have made the same call.

    If this person was overwhelmed due to an outside emergency it’s incumbent on them to explain what’s going on, at least in a general way. Don’t do that and people will reasonably assume that you’re flighty.

    I can teach somebody how to operate a records program or process billing or whatever. I can’t teach a person how to reliably show up with their shit together.

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  9. JPB Gerald*

    Yeah, if you hadn’t offered to train them additionally I might say it was harsh but some jobs require this ability to proccess a lot, quickly, as a skillset, and so long as you’re clear with applicants and so forth, yeah.

    I wonder if this person was able to answer interview questions well because with that much experience they can probably pull a million “tell me about a time when” answers out of a hat.

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  10. Katydid*

    I used to train people to be medical receptionists and some people who had worked in other places would get completely overwhelmed learning to work with the EHR system and what it required. Unfortunately, we did run into people crying in the bathroom sometimes. We never held that against them though. Our training was usually at least a week long, with a large manual that they got to keep, so it was pretty comprehensive and we hoped by the end they were comfortable. But some people couldn’t adapt.

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    1. Goldenrod*

      Crying in the bathroom – hey, it happens. We’re all human. Informing your employer that you will be staying home on day 3 to organize your notes – big no!

      Reply ↓
    2. Paint N Drip*

      Medical administration is a tough gig, even being well-trained in a good office. Crying is a response but someone crying in the bathroom is still in the game – just opting out day three says a lot about their ability to hang in when things are tough, confusing, overwhelming, etc.

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    3. Nightengale*

      I sooooo miss the days of manuals for EHRs. I learn so much better with a book that stands still and can be consulted later than a person training me in real time. The last EHR I trained on, I ended up bringing in a separate computer to take notes about what the trainers were saying so I would have a written reference.

      Reply ↓
  11. KT*

    Something feels off here.

    If someone has 18 years of experience and then is overwhelmed to the point of needing to gather themselves before returning three days in…maybe the office culture needs to be looked at. And the “being burned one too many times” is also a bit of a red flag to me too. I would be curious to know what the circumstances were behind those issues too.

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    3. JFC*

      I agree. I would be less surprised if this was someone with little experience or who hadn’t done this type of work before. Even if they had been in an office that was slower paced and with different systems, it seems like they’d be able to grasp the basics and not be so overwhelmed.

      The “being burned one too many times” reads to me like they’ve had a lot of turnover, perhaps after other employees have also had short stints. If this is a pattern, it’s on the management to investigate and figure out what’s going on and not write everyone off as a bad fit.

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    4. Butterfly Counter*

      As someone who was a clerk in a hospital, not specifically a medical receptionist, but whose duties were to answer the phone and provide support in my department, I wonder about this, too.

      It was only my second job at the age of 17 and included figuring out the filing system, reception, a typewriter (!), medical jargon, doctors’ expectations, how to use a fax machine, transporting patients, doing EKGs, and figuring out the rhythms and personalities of the department, all with minimal training, I am feeling for the receptionist. I know I left the first day with a stack of post its to give to the evening clerk of all of the things I hadn’t done because I couldn’t figure them out on my own. Transitioning into a medical setting can be very different than other settings.

      Unlike this receptionist, I would have not been described as “doing well.” I didn’t ask for time off, but that was due to my own immaturity to know it might have been an option. Instead, I cried at work for the first two months I was there because no one ever trained me and it took me that long to figure things out myself. I ended up staying in that job as one of that department’s best clerks for over four years. (I also wrote up a training manual when I left.)

      So I think OP acted too quickly. Medical reception is its own beast and I can very much understand how overwhelming it can be. Let a person take a day! You can fire them the next day or the day after if they don’t have the work ethic you like, especially if they’ve actually been doing well at first.

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      1. Goldenrod*

        But you were only 17, not someone claiming 18 years of experience. Also, you came in!!! You cried and were overwhelmed, but you showed up!

        Honestly, I think your situation was entirely different. (And taking a day off on day 3 is not an option!)

        I would have talked to the person first, though, mostly just to get more of a sense of what was really going on. And out of curiosity!

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    5. Elbe*

      I agree that this is something that would be worth some thought. The LW should try to understand if there’s anything unusual about what they are asking for in that role.

      But there are also a lot of roles that require skills that are just very difficult to screen for in an interview. Factoring in many moving parts and variables when making decisions, especially, is a skill that is hard to suss out in an interview. I think it’s pretty common for some people to just not be cut out for the job, or to not enjoy it. It’s odd here since the new hire has so much experience, though.

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    6. RagingADHD*

      I did a stint in the corporate offices of a healthcare company, and hiring front desk for a clinic is *hard,* partly because of the speed of changes / upgrades in technology and the way of working. There is an entire job category now of “transformation specialist” in healthcare because it is so hard for small practices to transition into larger groups or get up to speed with new technology. Our parent company was trying to onboard practices that were still faxing records and doing paper patient files, into the latest iteration of ERM system, as well as bring them into a scheduling system that integrated online appointment requests with appointments made live on the phone, when some of these practices had never had anything more sophisticated than a static page website with contact information.

      It’s entirely possible that this new hire worked for 18 years in a small practice that was completely behind the times. Having to catch up on 10 or 15 years of tech advancement in a week or 2 is a big ask. But at the same time, someone with skills that are 10-15 years out of date may have inadvertently misrepresented their skill set because they literally don’t know what they are missing.

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      1. Paint N Drip*

        I think this is a great set of points, and my work experience supports this. I worked at two different medical offices while they moved from paper records to EHR, and both caused a wave of retirements and job shifting as it became obvious that some skills were mismatched with these new tools. I’m at a non-medical office now with KINDA up-to-date digital tools, but I know if I moved to another company doing exactly my same job but with folks who used more tech it would be a huge adjustment – we have a main branch that keeps us in the loop of new tech/processes even if we don’t get on board and if I didn’t have that, I really wouldn’t know what I didn’t know.

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    7. Generic Name*

      I interviewed someone who had over 20 years of experience, and just did not come off all that knowledgeable in his interview. He even admitted that an agency had rejected a report that he had written (this happens very rarely and only when the work product is truly terrible) and even sounded argumentative about it. His resume showed that he moved on from all of his roles after a year or two. So instead of 20+ years of experience with increasing responsibility, he had had a series of basically identical jobs over the span of 20 years (his current job title was below what I would expect if he had advanced in his career at all). So this receptionist may have many short term stays rather than 18 years of career advancement

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      1. Paint N Drip*

        Oof, so he had 20 years of 2 years max of experience? That’s a rough resume.

        Not all medical offices are the same, and of course people are allowed to have things going on in their personal lives that affects work (moving locations so forced to move jobs, choosing to stay at a low-energy job so you can take care of your ailing parent, whatever) but so many medical offices A) move quickly and B) love internal hires so someone staying at essentially entry-level their whole applicable career is a yellow flag to me if I were hiring

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  12. Best Coke Ever*

    It sounds like they didn’t really want the job – if she had been working elsewhere for 18 years, I’m sure she knows you dont’ call out “overwhelmed” esp on your third day!

    I wonder if she was maybe interviewing multiple places and another job came through after yours started.

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    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      This is what I suspect too. She’s accepted the job with OP but continued applying elsewhere (or already had other applications on the go) and got an interview for the day she was “overwhelmed”…

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  13. H.Regalis*

    I think you did the right thing to cut bait. Like others have said, it’s not that they were overwhelmed—I think that happens to everyone at new jobs—but how they handled it. They’re not reliable and they’re going to bail/screw things up because they don’t have their shit together and can’t handle the job.

    I know I’m being biased here because I have a horrible (for a lot of reasons) ex-friend who does stuff like this, but OMFG that is so high maintenance, self-centered, and precious. UGH.

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  14. Scarlet ribbons in her hair*

    I’m reminded of a previous company where two employees showed up for four days, then called in sick for a few days, and then never came back and never called again. I figured that another company where they had interviewed (and whose job they preferred over our job) called them for an additional interview, and the two employees wound up taking the other jobs. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that this receptionist called out on the third day because she was offered a job elsewhere and decided to take it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Petty Patty*

      Or, was offered a new job, and day three at this job was day one at the new job, and she wanted to try it out to compare which she thought was better.

      Reply ↓
  15. Skippy*

    This is pretty short-term, but if “getting her notes organized” counts as work, I would not be interested in paying her for 2 days work + 1dat “wfh” + 1 day to come in and be asked WTAF?

    Reply ↓
    1. Sneaky Squirrel*

      It’s possible they charged it against their PTO which I think would still be legal as they’re still paying by the hour, but I had that question too. Especially because it’s unlikely that someone 3 days into a role has much for PTO.

      In the US, a medical receptionist position would typically be a non-exempt role. If the receptionist is non-exempt, then I assume that they would they need to be paid for that time spent getting notes together. I’d be pretty ready to fire a new employee who disregarded my suggestion to come in to offer help and instead made me end up having to pay for their work from home against my direction.

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  16. George*

    This firing was not reasonable, as others have said that the EHR system is complex and different from other systems. I deal most in retail payment systems, and I know that each store has a different payment system, return policy, and operating procedures. As a retail manager, I expect that I will have to train new employees on that system even if they have previous retail experience because each one is nuanced. Payment systems are simple one you train on them, and then proceed to process dozens of transactions per day. EHR systems sound much more complicated and thus take longer to train on, but it can seem overwhelming at first. I think you should at least give LW a few weeks longer to be sure; if it had been two months or a month and A receptionist wasn’t getting the EHS a key part of the job, then firing may be necessary. It took me a couple weeks to learn the nuances of my current job. OP is or works for a terrible employer if they don’t give enough time to get trained to see if they’re a fit. LW has lost income and time taking a job that would fire an employee at the first sign of struggle, and now she will have to look for a new one in the same field with a bad reference and a job that will come up in future interviews. Everything is harder on a new system during training because it’s new. After a couple of days I can process transactions in my sleep. The training period does cost the employer more, but that is the point the’yre learning. Training is a poor indication of Job performance good or bad. I feel bad for LW and the way OP has treated them.

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    1. Bella Ridley*

      The training itself is a red herring compared to the attitude. If someone is struggling with training and refuse point-blank to come into the office to be assisted with it, I would not continue to employ them.

      Also you seem to have confused the OP (original poster), who is the same as the LW (letter writer), and their employee.

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    2. Learn ALL the things*

      I don’t think anybody is judging the receptionist for feeling overwhelmed. It’s the refusal to come to work and talk with someone to work through the overwhelming tasks that makes this a fireable offense. It’s normal to feel overwhelmed in a new job, it’s not normal to refuse to come to work in your first week because you’re too overwhelmed by the training.

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    3. I should really pick a name*

      It sounds like your characterizing this as firing the employee because they didn’t understand the EHR system right away.

      The LW said they’d been doing well so far.

      The firing was about the employee calling out because they were overwhelmed. That’s very unusual behaviour.

      Reply ↓
      1. Antilles*

        This. The employee was NOT fired because of the system being overwhelming, needing to learn nuances of the payment system, or anything else George is mentioning. The employee was fired for refusing to come in to work.

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    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I do work with EHR systems on a regular basis. If you are struggling with the training, and your solution is to turn down additional help in favor of staying home, how is that going to help with your struggles?

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    5. Elbe*

      I agree with the other responses. It’s the attitude that is the issue. It’s normal to feel overwhelmed during training. It’s not normal to unapologetically call in on your third day with a flimsy excuse and then refuse help when your employer pushes back. There is something off here.

      If it were me, I would have tried to have one more conversation with her before firing her, but I don’t blame them for doing what they did. This is a ton of red flags. You also have to keep in mind that poor employee performance affects everyone in the office. It costs the employer money, but it also costs the other employees time and effort when they’re training her, fixing her mistakes, and doing work that she can’t or won’t.

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    6. Dinwar*

      “I think you should at least give LW a few weeks longer to be sure…”

      The issue isn’t that the LW didn’t give the new hire a chance. The issue is that the new hire didn’t give the LW a chance. The new hire is the one who refused to show up, which precludes any potential to learn any new system. The NEW HIRE is the one who gave up, not the person who wrote the letter.

      How, precisely, do you expect someone to learn a proprietary and complex system without interacting with it? I don’t care how many notes you take, reviewing notes is not going to cut it as training if the system is as complex as you say.

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    7. Slimboy Fat*

      The new hire wasn’t fired because they weren’t picking things up right away. The new hire was terminated because of how they acted. I don’t really see how the letter could have made that any clearer. The OP (who is NOT the new hire) urged the new hire to come in on Day 3 anyway so they could all go over the new hire’s concerns, answer questions, *get more training* (you know, so the new hire wouldn’t feel as overwhelmed by the electronic medical record system), etc? But the new hire decided to torch their own chances with this gig for their own reasons. So being fired was not a surprise outcome and I really can’t blame the OP’s boss for it. It’s a medical receptionist role. Whether the person you hired is brand new at that specific role or not, you need someone who won’t fold under the pressure (trust me, commenters here know when they’ve been to a medical office where the front staff are …less than stellar).

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    8. Unkempt Flatware*

      “Training is a poor indication of Job performance good or bad.” I do not understand what you mean here. How well someone is trained doesn’t impact their job performance? Their actions during training don’t impact job performance, even if the action was bad? I don’t understand.

      Reply ↓
  17. queueueue*

    While I’m sympathetic to the view of “check your processes/training”, I also expect someone who’s been in the workforce for 18 years to have a better sense of professional norms. Openly defying a reasonable request by the manager on Day 3? Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were headaches dodged on this one.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sneaky Squirrel*

      This is where I land. I originally missed that this receptionist had 18 years of experience and had pictured someone fresh out of school with a first or second job.

      Reply ↓
  18. Birb*

    Honestly, it’s weird enough (especially considering they declined help with organizing the notes) that I’d assume they wanted to call out for another reason and just used that as an excuse.

    Reply ↓
    1. Elbe*

      I tend to agree. If this was really their reason, then that’s a red flag. If it was an excuse, then it is still a red flag because what adult can’t come up with a more plausible, professional reason!?! Faking food poisoning isn’t that hard.

      Reply ↓
  19. Anita Brake*

    That is a good point, Former Finance Lady. I couldn’t really put my finger on why I was siding with the new employee, but I think this is it. The tone seems to “Laa-dee-dah, another one bites the dust.”

    Reply ↓
  20. Elsa*

    I’ve often given additional chances to employees who display red flags early on, and I always, always end up regretting it. Someone who is unreliable and high maintenance on day 3 is only going to get worse, and the more entrenched they are in the workplace the more destructive their ultimate implosion will be. Good move!

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    2. Katydid*

      I agree, I had a colleague who was late on her FIRST day! And then the next day, instead of recalibrating her drive time because she had a long commute, she was still like 10 mins late. Things did not improve from there and she was eventually fired.

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  21. Bekah*

    Lirael is correct. The position was for a medical receptionist. They had over 18 years in that same position – other medical offices. I also make it extremely clear that I will remain with them and by their side and lead them through all the processes until they are comfortable and I am confident that they can work independently.

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  22. Person Replying*

    Assuming the new hire is hourly, even if her story were true and after a day of reviewing her notes she was good to go – I would consider this to clearly be working off the clock and wouldn’t allow this. If she’s reviewing notes, she should be doing that onsite, paid.

    Reply ↓
    1. Bekah*

      Our thoughts exactly. We don’t offer WFH. Come to work and we can take the time to go over notes and the manual we have.

      Reply ↓
  23. Sneaky Squirrel*

    While I have reservations on firing anyone on day 3, I think LW made a reasonable call here. Unless LW missed some glaringly obvious observations about the receptionist being overwhelmed, it doesn’t sound like the receptionist tried really hard to voice their concerns before calling out. The receptionist had 18 years of experience which is enough time to know that there should have been an in person discussion first to allow LW to help. If the receptionist is calling out on day 3 because they’re overwhelmed, it’s reasonable to be concerned that the receptionist will not be a reliable employee anytime the situation becomes too overwhelming.

    Reply ↓
    1. juliebulie*

      It doesn’t even make sense that she wants to “review notes” at home. I’ve been overwhelmed with work stuff before, but retreating to my fortress of solitude wouldn’t help. She needs to be where people can show her how to do things.

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      1. Coverage Associate*

        Yeah, and OP offered to go over the notes together and seems like OP would give the hire time alone during the work day to organize the notes.

        It can’t happen at every job, but a good training schedule I have experienced is 45 minute training followed by a break to rest and organize my notes.

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  24. Blue Pen*

    Personally and on a human level, I would want to know what went so wrong for this person as to run away like this. But realistically, and I suppose practically, I would also be alarmed that someone would respond in this way to two days of basic training.

    Either way, I hope that person is OK. And honestly, it happens; not everyone is a fit for everything. I remember going through training at CVS as a teenager, feeling completely overwhelmed, and just never showed up the next day. I’m not excusing or condoning that, but that’s what I did and at the time, it felt like the only thing I could do.

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  25. Bunch Harmon*

    This reminds me of someone I had to train a long time ago when I was still in retail. She had been laid off from a department store after 20+ years. She had decades of experience. It took me a full day to teach her the very basic register functions (which should have taken 1-2 hours). She complained that she didn’t have any of the training materials in writing, while she was still holding the training packet I had given her. When we decided to take a break from register work, I asked her set up an endcap. I gave her the diagram, there was a box of hooks right next to the shelf, and then I took a quick bathroom break. When I came back, she was bending paper clips to try to hold up the product. My boss fired her the next day. We don’t know how she kept her previous job for so long, but realized that her lay off was just an excuse to push her out. I wonder if this receptionist with 18 years experience was in a similar situation.

    Reply ↓
    1. Elbe*

      I think that this is an excellent example of why letting poor performers go can sometimes be a kindness. Try to coach and train someone for a reasonable amount of time and, if it doesn’t work, just let them go. The worst case scenario is that they are now set up for failure when they’re older, have more responsibilities, and have a harder time changing industries. Her previous job likely did her a disservice in the long run.

      Reply ↓
        1. Elbe*

          True, but it’s 20 years and then a struggle from then on out. If she had been let go at the beginning, she may have found a 40 year career where she could succeed and advance.

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    2. Coverage Associate*

      I think there are lots of stories of people who do fine in familiar environments but struggle in new ones. Think of the stories here about secretaries who insisted on using typewriters instead of computers. Some jobs can accommodate such quirks. (Typewriters probably not in 2024, but in the 1990s, yes.)

      I tend to stick with the basic functions of the technology I use at work because while the bells and whistles could make certain projects go faster, they are not central to my role.

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  26. MI Dawn*

    In the late 1990s, I started a new job and worked with a person who was terrified of computers. While understandable, the job was totally computer-based. They did all 6 weeks of training then quit on the last day before they had to go into their real position. I was amazed they had the guts, but not really surprised – I’d had to coach them on how to turn on the computer nearly every day.

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  27. Seashell*

    My guesses would be either (1) this person either had a pre-existing mental health problem that causes them to be easily overwhelmed or (2) they were making up an excuse that wouldn’t require a visit to the doctor or to miss more than one day due to be contagious so they could go interview for another (better?) job.

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  28. Coverage Associate*

    Taking OP’s follow up comments at their word, I find it odd that a proven training program would need a day to organize notes. I am bad at note taking, especially if someone else is going to need them, but organizing my personal notes is quick.

    I am going with something else being in play than anything at this job.

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  30. el l*

    As with other letters we’ve had recently:

    It’s not that you feel this way (overwhelmed) that’s the problem. Everyone does. It’s the intensity of behavior from it. That’s the problem.

    Because calling in for a mental health day after 2 days is…pretty intense.

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  31. Carls*

    I know we don’t have details about the timing of these letters, but in light of how I’ve felt this week, if a new employee called me on Wednesday after the election and said they needed a day to ‘regroup’ I would be understanding. If she had been doing well her first two days and showed no other red flags, it seems likely that *something* else was going on, and like Alison, I’d want to dig deeper. I don’t think the employee handled it the well, but perhaps she was worried if she shared the real reason for needing a day (be it election recovery or other personal issues) she’d be unfairly judged.

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    1. DrSalty*

      But if you’re going to lie, why pick this one? Just say you’re physically ill. It doesn’t make sense and it’s a huge red flag.

      Reply ↓
      1. Kevin Sours*

        You don’t even have to say *that*. Honest but vague. “I know it’s an inconvenience but I really don’t feel well today”. If that’s not enough “The way I’m feeling, I don’t think I’ll be able to focus today if I came in, I’ll be in tomorrow”.

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  32. Ciela*

    oooo, I quit a job after 2 days because there was a decided lack of training!

    I was 17, still in high school, didn’t really need the money, because parents. I was hired as a secretary / admin assistant. My boss was AWOL both days I worked. Day One, she left me a list of tasks. Some things were easy, make coffee for the waiting room, make sure all bathrooms have TP. But then other tasks, I had no idea what to do! So that evening, I left her a note, “I did as much as I could, but I do not know what most of these tasks are.” Day Two, she just added more tasks by writing on the bottom of the list from Day One! No explanation on anything!!! I begged off saying I did not realize how much school work I was going to have that year when I accepted the job.

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  33. Maple*

    LW, having just been through the polar opposite of this, count this as a bullet dodged. I just had a medical receptionist let go after *three months* of inability to pick up so much as the barest basics.

    This may not have been the fairest option to the new hire, but it definitely is for the team they’d be joining.

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  34. Bopper*

    My daughter worked for a doctor’s office and they had a hard time hiring and retaining the receptionist. I wonder if what used to be two people’s jobs is now one and there is no training except throwing them in the deep end and then they wonder why nobody stays.

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  35. fhqwhgads*

    Was the third day of employment Wednesday of this week?
    If not, cutting them loose was the right way to go.
    If it were yesterday, it was still probably the right way to go, but being overwhelmed that particular day makes more sense.

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  36. Richard Hershberger*

    The second day of my current job, back in July, several people expressed surprise that I had come back. I think this was a joke, but I was tossed into the role of cleaning up the mess my predecessor had left. (I am now mostly but not entirely caught up.) It would actually have been kind of reasonable for someone to look at this and nope out. But then again, I was hired specifically because I had the experience to deal with stuff like this. Throwing a junior person into the role would have been cruel.

    Reply ↓

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