coworker tags CEO on Twitter to point out my mistakes, I don’t want to carpool, and more

by Alison Green on December 30, 2024

I’m on vacation. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives.

1. Coworker tags our CEO on Twitter to point out my mistakes

I’m part of an incredibly progressive, supportive team, where one of my responsibilities is my organization’s social media. In six months, I have made three errors within tweets, two of which were mixing up the dates that two very similar events were happening on, and one of which was just a formatting error.

One coworker from a different department — who does not work with social media in any capacity — replies to the errors from her personal Twitter, tagging in our CEO’s personal Twitter to shout about the mistakes. She then emails a screen grab to my entire team (the person I manage, my manager, and my grandboss) demanding that my grandboss check all of my social media communications before they are posted, which would be ridiculous.

Obviously in an ideal world I would not be making any errors on social media. But three tweets in six months does not seem like a bad hit rate (also, our social tone is playful and conversational, and usually quite informal). Should I ask my manager to ask this woman to lay off me? Or do it myself?

That’s incredibly obnoxious. Ideally your manager would have already seen this and told her to cut it out, but since that doesn’t happen, it’s reasonable for you to say, “Jane, if you spot any errors in our tweets, please bring it to my attention directly and I’ll get it fixed. Commenting about it on Twitter brings more attention to it to people outside our organization, which reflects badly on us.”

That said … while your coworker is in the wrong in how she’s handling this, three errors in tweets in six months does strike me as a lot for public communications (especially for dates of events). If your coworker is involved in marketing or events or anything else that your social media work supports, she’s right to be concerned. I’d hold off on bringing your boss into this and instead focus on figuring out a system to catch errors before anything gets posted.

– 2019

Read an update to this letter here.

2. My employee quit smoking and is being a pain

I am the general manager for a retail location. I have an employee, “Joy,” who is a lifelong smoker. She’s been smoking for longer than I’ve been alive! Joy is a member of my leadership team, and has been a great asset for the three years I’ve worked with her. Recently, she decided to quit smoking. As far as I know, this is the first time she has attempted this since I have known her. I’m really proud of her, and she’s been doing an awesome job — she quit cold turkey over two weeks ago, and hasn’t had a single cigarette since.

However, while the first week was great, this week I have noticed a sharp dip in her performance/attitude. Joy admits that this is because she is severely craving a cigarette, which has always been her main form of stress relief. While I sympathize, and am still proud of her for taking this step towards bettering her health, I am getting frustrated at her performance. She actually called out sick today, and again, told me this was directly due to the fact that she is craving a cigarette so badly. The team has noticed her change in attitude, and are getting frustrated as well. How can I approach this as her manager, while still remaining supportive?

How cranky is she being? If she’s a little cranky, cut her some slack — everyone goes through things in their personal life that impacts their demeanor at work now and then. But if it’s extreme — if she’s being rude or hostile to people — then articulate that for her and tell her she needs to rein it in. (As in, “I know this is a tough period for you and I sympathize, but you’re starting to be openly rude to people here and I need you to stay civil.”)

Same thing with performance — if she’s slipping a bit but is still doing an overall okay job, cut her some slack since you know what’s causing it and you know this is short-term. But if it’s more serious, then you need to say something like, “I know this is a tough period for you, and I don’t expect you to be at 100% right now, but you’re making some pretty serious mistakes in your work. What can we do during this period to help keep your work quality where we need it?” (And since she’s normally a good employee, you should try to find ways to accommodate her for the next week or two, like moving deadlines around if you can or giving her projects that require less mental presence if that’s possible.)

And if she wants to use sick leave to help her get through what should be a relatively short-term withdrawal period (it’s supposed to last about two weeks, right?), let her do it. As long as it’s not impacting any crucial projects which she absolutely must be there for this week, that’s a pretty great use of sick leave and it means she’s keeping the withdrawal impact out of the office.

– 2017

Read an update to this letter. 

3. I don’t want to carpool with a coworker

I’ve carpooled with one coworker for over a year. A new coworker has come and also wants to carpool with us. The two coworkers do not have a good relationship (but can tolerate each other). The new coworker is also incredibly annoying and inconsiderate (but not a bad person). I am technically her superior at work (although not her direct manager), and on Sunday she needed to be disciplined but as I was driving her back and forth, I asked my colleague to talk with her instead.

I really would prefer to stop driving her, but I don’t want to hurt her feelings. I like carpooling with person #1, so an excuse of like “I need some time to myself” doesn’t work. I’m unsure what to do, or how to navigate this, without putting myself in an even more uncomfortable position at work.

Oooh, this is hard. It might have been easier to say no from the start, but now that you’re carpooling together, it’s harder to get out of it without dropping out of the carpool with the original coworker too.

You mentioned the other two don’t have a good relationship. If things are tense between them in the car, you could use that — “I need to be able to unwind at the end of the day and the tension in the car is too much.” Or you possibly could say that picking up/dropping off two people is too much (although then there’s a chance she’ll offer to drive herself to the driver’s house). Or there’s the chain of command — “I realized that since I sometimes manage your work and need to give you feedback, we should have good outside-of-work boundaries and not keep carpooling.” Or, if any of her inconsideration is about the carpool itself (being late, being rude in the car, etc.), you can explain that — “We need to leave on time every day so can’t keep carpooling.”

Anyone else have better ideas on this one?

– 2019

4. Keeping a file of personal items at work

I’ve seen some great videos on having a tidy workspace and I’ve shared them with my team (I like a clean, neat workspace and I try to lead by example). I wonder what others feel about personal items in your workspace. By personal items, I don’t mean a picture of your family or a box of tea. I’ve worked in two positions where one of my admins has dedicated an unlocked file cabinet drawer to organize their life – from healthcare claims, credit card bills, and mortgage information to court information on a divorce in progress. If I’ve discovered this drawer while looking for a copy of something, how many others have discovered this, and how many have been nosey enough to have a good read? Any thoughts on this?

It’s not something you should intervene in as their manager. But if I were advising the person doing it, I’d suggest that they not keep such a file at work, at least not if they want to keep the info private. It’s normal to have some of that stuff there temporarily, like bringing a bill to work because you needed to call your credit card company about it that day, or having some paperwork there while you were in the process of applying of a mortgage, because there’s often back and forth on that during business hours. But if they’re keeping a permanent “personal documents” file at work, there’s no guarantee of privacy, or even a guarantee that it won’t somehow get accidentally thrown out in some office purge that they’re not full control of. And it’s going to look a little odd if someone comes across it, as you did; it reads as “I’m managing my entire personal life from work on the regular.”

But it’s not really something for you as their boss to be dictating. I would also lay off sending the videos about clean workspaces; focus on the work.

– 2018

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  1. Merry and Bright*

    #4 – I was on the safety committee at work, and part of our twice yearly review of each person included work spaces. The focus was on safety – so items like stacks of old newspapers were bad due to fire hazard, a shelf of fidget toys was fine. Everyone also needed to have clear space on their desk to be able to put a regular piece of paper to write on (since we did occasionally use paper).

    1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

      As she was going through a divorce she may have felt that the office was the safest space to store important documents, out of reach of the spouse.
      In that case, she should lock the cabinet and/or get a lockable box. Metal cases for power tools are fairly cheap and sturdy companies like Sentry make ones that are also fairly fireproof (while more expensive, they are useful even outside relationship crises).

      1. That Paralegal*

        This is my take as well. I work for a family law firm and keeping your divorce and personal docs out of the hands of your soon-to-be-ex is really crucial, especially in a high-conflict situation. Keeping them at work is not ideal, but it’s a good temporary solution. (and by temporary, it might mean a year or two because high-conflict divorces can take foreverrrr, especially if there’s an associated criminal case)

      2. Jackalope*

        One other option is to label a specific drawer as personal. Obviously that won’t keep nosy people out of it, but for most people who might be at your desk just looking for work docs they’ll keep out. (At one job I did that, and just kept stuff like mints, a small first aid kit, spares of some hygiene items, etc, and people stayed out of it.)

    2. Guacamole Bob*

      It’s fine to have rules about desk spaces – can’t pose a fire or trip hazard, can’t have anything that will attract pests, can’t be too messy if clients can view it, can’t leave confidential information out on the desk, have to have a clear in-tray if the office deals with a lot of paper, etc. A manager certainly has standing to talk to an employee if they’re regularly misplacing things or having other performance issues that are related to a messy desk. It’s even fine if a company wants to mandate a clean desk (for cleaning reasons, or maybe just because) though I think that’s usually significant overkill.

      What’s not great is sending out videos about why employees should have clean desks, without setting any sort of policy or guidelines or actually talking to people whose desks are messier than the manager thinks they should be. It’s a weirdly passive-aggressive way to handle it.

      1. Maxouillenet*

        In my sheltered workshop, where I do both reception, data entry and envelope stuffing, we had a coworker who eave his personal mail and belonging , but our workshop is collective. Every time we tried to find something, whether it was near the franking machine or elsewhere, we’d come across something that belonged to him (even though we have lockers).My supervisor got fed up one day and asked him if he was planning to store his underwear in his workplace while he was at it. But yes ,it was because it was wasting everyone’s time when we were looking for documents.
        (Well, now the said coworker is in an other departement)

  2. Luna*

    Stop trying to control how others feel. It’s not your job to manage the feelings of coworkers. Always be polite and professional but it’s perfectly acceptable to say “the carpool is not working out for me” and give a two week notice. No need to elaborate.

    1. MK*

      I see this kind of advice repeated a lot, but I think it’s missing the point, especially when it comes to workplace relationships. Most of the time, OPs aren’t trying to find a resolution that doesn’t offend anyonw because they are invested in everyone liking them and feeling good; they want to avoid unpleasantness at work. It’s very easy for a random commenter to say “it’s not your job to manage your coworker’s feelings”, but OP is the one who will have to see that person at work every day for who knows how long, of course they care that this person won’t be hostile. And yes, people shouldn’t turn unpleasant over others’ setting reasonable boundaries, but we don’t live in a perfect world.

      1. duinath*

        This, and in some careers “not managing your co-worker’s feelings” can be damaging professionally. Keeping things as low drama as possible is not a bad thing, and it is very possible to do your best to avoid drama whilst also setting boundaries.

      2. toe beans*

        This! No, you can’t control or manage other people’s feelings, but you can certainly take them into consideration when deciding how to act, especially when you’re the one who will be dealing with the fallout. Work relationships are ones that you don’t really get to opt out of, and that necessarily affects how you set boundaries within them.

      3. Falling Diphthong*

        Yeah, a lot of the “No is a complete sentence” stuff is well suited if the person never speaking to you again would be a positive outcome. Which does not apply to all the relationships in our lives.

        1. Czhorat*

          I see this a ton on Reddit as well; yes, your inlaws were way out of line last week. They’re still your family and your spouse’s parents, so you probably don’t want to burn it all to the ground. You want to compromise where you can, push back where you must, and work to set boundaries that work for everyone.

          At work you add the fact that this is your livliehood; personal awkwardness can impact how others see you; if you’re difficult then you’ll be viewed as a poor team player and that could cost opportunities down the road.

          1. Falling Diphthong*

            An AITA update I really appreciated: “All of the people saying I am completely justified and my beloved family member is a hideous monster whom I should cut off seem really awful, so I have concluded that I need to focus on the YTA replies. And based on those we talked, and worked out our different histories and how those influenced our vision of The Event, and figured out how we could adapt both The Event and The Accompanying Rituals to be a better fit for everyone, and then we hugged and got a bit weepy.”

        2. Luna*

          I think no is a complete sentence is generally rude. It’s ok to tell a coworker a carpool is not working out for you.

      4. Irish Teacher.*

        Yes and there have been a number of updates about minor issues where the LW says, “I came to realise that this was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to the issues with this coworker/the dysfunction in our workplace.”

        I think often when we read a letter where it seems like “it could be solved if the LW would just use their words,” there is a good reason why they aren’t; they know that either due to that person’s previous behaviour or due to the culture in their workplace, there is a high chance that just speaking up won’t end well.

        Of course, there are people who are very conflict averse and struggle to say no even when it wouldn’t be a problem, but there are also situations where the LW knows that it would cause greater problems and I think sometimes omits to tell us that because they have started to take the dysfunction for granted,

        1. Smithy*

          Absolutely this.

          I think when most of us look to managing work, it’s not uncommon to identify one thing that if it was better would make sticking with a job easier. But when teasing out why that “one thing” is so difficult to solve, it’s rooted in larger problems as to why it’s not simple to fix.

          For the people who write back about much larger dysfunction, it can be that wakeup call that a lot of things likely aren’t sustainable. But for another group, it may be realizing that due to the dysfunction – it can’t be fixed. However, the overall workplace isn’t so bad that it’s not worth rocking the boat.

          I had a department manager where there was a major pain point due to them managing a massive project along with our department. This was a project they’d started before becoming department manager and either didn’t want to give up the project or wasn’t allowed to. Ultimately it created a number of issues, but personally once I realized how much I liked this person as my boss and my job overall – I let go trying to fix it. Once the department manager got a new job and that project moved to a new team, it was such a relief.

    2. RIP Pillowfort*

      …OP doesn’t want to control how someone feels they just don’t want a super awkward situation. Can they do that? Probably not but it’s not a terrible thing to want.

      And it can be really important to know how to navigate this sort of thing making the least amount of waves! Both for your own stress and maintaining some kind of decent workplace. Which I think putting it back on the fact OP is overseeing work and discipline for this employee is the least dramatic option. You point out that you have to draw that boundary since work requires you to do that. It’s not awkward free but it’s less awkward and more kind than bringing up that they’re not liked by the other carpool member.

  3. Daria grace*

    #4 I feel like this situation is drama waiting to happen. If they become victim to identity theft or credit card fraud, they’re likely to suspect it’s from someone in the office who got access to the information.

  4. linger*

    To summarise the update to #1:.
    (i) There were no further serious errors prior to the update. It’s an open question whether that had anything to do with OP taking care not to give Coworker further ammunition, or just that OP got better at instituting proofreading steps; but we probably shouldn’t give Coworker any credit, because …
    (ii) Coworker’s comments were not taken by management to reflect on the quality of OP’s work, and
    (iii) Coworker was (eventually) told to pull her head in regarding interactions with OP’s team.

    1. MK*

      The issue isn’t whether coworker deserves credit, it’s whether OP realizes that coworker’s obnoxiousness doesn’t cancel out her mistakes (even though they are very minor and the coworker’s reaction over-the-top). Whatever management thinks, objectively 2 mistakes about event dates in social media in 6 months is a problem; it’s not the number of mistakes that matter, in my opinion, double the amount of typos that don’t affect the information on a post wouldn’t be a big deal. I hope she did leanr to be more careful permanently.

        1. PhantomPhoton*

          Many years ago I saw a motivational poster that went on and on about how mistakes cause problems, cost money, etc. It had a typo in it. I never could figure out if it was intentional or not.

      2. Socks*

        I read that as one mistake that led to two incorrect tweets (getting the dates of two events swapped). Is it an issue? Sure. But I don’t think it’s necessarily a pattern the way two unrelated incorrect dates would be.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I was quite annoyed by the update (a reflection on the situation itself, rather than on OP’s letter, of course) – OP took care not to make any more mistakes, thus not giving Jane the opportunity to do any more tweets-to-the-CEO – so instead, Jane found other ways to undermine the marketing team, and instead of having a stern word or a letter on the desk with her (I’m not convinced she was “told to pull her head in” particularly strongly) the company is very soft on her and takes a ‘we’re all learning’ attitude, including that Jane is learning how to interact in a civil manner with other departments!

      I couldn’t tell if Jane was writing those tweets as ‘Jane’, or if she had some pseudonym so the company didn’t know it was her. I assume the company knew, or came to know, that it was her. So instead of taking this softly softly approach they should have leaned more on bringing up things in public that should be private and harming the company’s reputation.

      1. duinath*

        On some level you could argue that a lax management style was behind all the problems in that set, tbh. Jane’s poor behaviour, certainly, but also LW’s own missteps (while not nearly as bad as what Jane was doing imo) not being handled by management at any point.

        1. Archi-detect*

          yeah lots of orgs have a policy to have someone check all posts before submitting, which is really not a bad idea if a little inconvenient

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          We honestly don’t have enough info to question the management statement that the 3 errors are not a problem because it ALSO depends on how many messages are going out a day.

          It’s visible if it’s 1/week on 1 platform, 1 account. It’s much less so if there are 5/day on 5 platforms and several accounts aimed at different audiences. (Under/over 18, US/Mexico/Canada-EN/Canada-FR/Mexico, commercial/residential, etc.)

      2. Kat*

        instead of having a stern word or a letter on the desk with her (I’m not convinced she was “told to pull her head in” particularly strongly) the company is very soft on her

        To be fair, the update does say that the CEO talked to Jane and the behavior stopped for a while, and neither we nor the LW know exactly what was said. Considering that her bad behavior eventually restarted, there may have been gears turning behind the scenes by the time the update was originally posted. People aren’t always aware of the disciplinary action that’s being taken with their coworkers (which I would argue is as it should be), and that doesn’t mean that there is none or it’s ineffective.

        1. Pizza Rat*

          People aren’t always aware of the disciplinary action that’s being taken with their coworkers (which I would argue is as it should be), and that doesn’t mean that there is none or it’s ineffective.

          This is quite true. With management, there are always going to be factors that people don’t know that contribute to decision-making.

          I’m glad the CEO said something. I would be massively annoyed to be tagged in this fashion.

      3. fhqwhgads*

        The original letter said she was using her personal twitter to comment on the tweets. So they knew it was her from the first time.

        1. Jackalope*

          IF she used her real name on the personal account, that is. There are many people who do, but also many more who choose not to use their real name and are confidential about their details in public.

          1. fhqwhgads*

            Sure but if that were the case, OP wouldn’t have known it was her posting it. Since OP did know it was her, and there’s nothing in the story that suggests Jane denied it being her, and there does not seem to have been any confusion on the higher ups part that it was her…there’s basically no reason to assume there was an username that obfuscated who it was. There’s nothing in the original letter or the update to indicate “was that even Jane commenting publicly on the tweets” is a question.

  5. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    2: As someone who also quit a long term smoking habit (10 years clear!) completely cold turkey because I had to I can say that physically it felt worse than the flu at points. Muscle aches, headache from hades, outright nausea and the craving to inhale was all consuming at points and yeah, I was unpleasant.

    During the really bad times I fully recommend taking time off work if you can. Encourage it in fact. Then for a while afterwards the work level won’t be up to par – in a way it’s like someone returning to work after a major operation, there’s a period of adjustment to a new norm. Largely depends on the person but I can’t say I was ‘normal’ work wise for a couple of months.

    However, the one thing that isn’t acceptable at all is hostility. No matter how awful I felt it didn’t excuse telling people to fuck off (which I did) or snarling at them (also did that). You can give leeway as a manager for reduced performance but not for antisocial behaviour.

  6. Glen*

    Withdrawal symptoms *are* a sickness. I would suggest it doesn’t even particularly matter what impact her absence has – she is sick and taking sick leave for that sickness, full stop. She’s very much taking her sick leave for the correct reason. I haven’t dealt with nicotine withdrawals specifically, but it’s my understanding that they’re quite unpleasant.

    1. toe beans*

      Yeah, honestly, this sounds like an entirely reasonable use of sick leave to me. If Jane’s feeling too awful to perform well at work, as is evidently the case, then home is where she needs to be. She’s not going to feel like this forever!

    2. bamcheeks*

      I agree with this if it is as straight forward as “two weeks and she’s done”, but I do wonder what the policy would be if Joy got into a trying to give up / failing / trying again cycle, and was going through withdrawal every few weeks or months. I guess it would be “call out the pattern and ask Joy for ideas on how to handle it”, but I do think trying to find the balance between supportive but also make sure the job gets done could get tricky.

      1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

        I relapsed a LOT when trying to quit the cigs. My last qutting attempt was 10 years ago and seems to have thankfully stuck (although I still get the cravings when I smell cig smoke).

        The thing about that kind of cycle is that it falls under ‘reasonable accomodation’. It’s a majorly difficult thing to quit but there’s also limits to what you can expect society to accomodate. Withdrawl symptoms that impact your work/home life for long periods of time are basically something you have to manage yourself (or ask a doctor) because at that point it becomes ‘not the company’s problem’.

        So a ‘look, this is seriously impacting upon your work now and I need you to look into ways to mitigate this’ talk really.

    3. TooTiredToThink*

      It’s said that of all drugs, nicotine is the hardest one to quit. I remember the living hell of my childhood the several times my mom tried to quit smoking (and she thankfully, finally did). Thankfully she was a great mom 98% of the time; but those time periods were *rough*. The LW and her team really need to give her more grace. And also check with their insurance to see if there are any smoking cessation helps too.

      1. Scholarly Publisher*

        My father quit smoking fifty years ago and says that he still sometimes gets the urge to light up a cigarrette. He found, though, that the intense craving usually lasts only 5-10 minutes, and if he found something to distract himself (reading an article, organizing a drawer, writing a note to someone), then he could get through until the craving faded.

    4. Coffee Protein Drink*

      I have quit smoking and I wish I had sick leave to take at the time. It was really rough both physically and mentally.

      19 years later and I still crave a cigarette sometimes.

    5. toolegittoresign*

      Yes, it seems like if it’s been brought up that there are performance issues when dealing with the strong withdrawal symptoms, taking sick leave to deal with them is the right move! Dealing with addiction is a serious physical and mental health issue, and most workplaces recognize that as long as the person is otherwise doing good work.

    6. ReallyBadPerson*

      Are there 12-step programs for quitters of nicotine, the way there are for people quitting other substances? Because there should be. One of my brothers is in recovery and does recovery work with other addicts, and says there is a huge difference in attitude between those who just quit, and those who are working through a recovery program. I can’t imagine nicotine withdrawal would be any easier to deal with than withdrawal from other things.

      1. Lisa*

        There are support groups and programs, yes. I don’t know that a 12-step-type group would work the same for nicotine though, since their focus is on acknowledging and stopping the effect that the substance has on your life and those around you, whereas quitting nicotine is primarily about breaking habits and getting through the physical withdrawal.

  7. DJ Abbott*

    As a person who is terribly allergic to cigarettes, I love that Joy made the effort to quit. I wish everyone would.

  8. RIP Pillowfort*

    OP#2- You have a three-year track record of excellent behavior and performance from Joy. You know she’s a good worker.

    She’s literally going through withdrawal from nicotine and its only week 2. It is a temporary situation that you just have to wait out.

    My mom basically warned everyone when she tried to quit. She had irritability, her focus was shot for about a month, etc. If you judged her performance on just that small snapshot of time- you’d think she’s a terrible employee instead of one with an overwhelmingly positive track record before and after quitting. Think about it like any other short term medical issue. You can ask her to keep it civil at work (and Joy might be really unaware how bad she’s coming across!) but try to find accommodations for the performance issues in the short term.

    1. Tom L*

      Same when my Dad quit smoking when I was a teenager. He was very grumpy and miserable for a good month before things started getting better. Was a rough time but my mom always made sure there were cookies available thet he could put in his mouth when he was ready to snap at one of us. All this to say is that LW2 needs to have patience. she should absolutely use sick time if she needs it and if she’s getting nasty at work maybe they can suggest she go in to a quiet space to deal with her symptoms. Quitting smoking is no fun in the short term but hella rewarding in the long term

    2. Salty Caramel*

      Smoking has both mental and physical effects that someone quitting needs to get over. It takes a lot more than two weeks to be over both.

      I agree with asking her to keep it civil at work. If she needs time to get that together, then yes, let her use sick time if she has it.

  9. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

    OP 4 – if someone is keeping personal files related to an ongoing divorce at work, my immediate thought would be that they lack a safe/private location to store them at home. Agreed that its not an ideal solution (I’ve had coworkers fired who desperately wanted/needed the personal files that they’d been keeping in the office, and that was a nightmare to figure out), but I can see how someone ends up there.

    1. Kuddel Daddeldu*

      That’s why you want a lockable box that you can easily grab (think emergency evacuation).
      In my office (we’re hybrid), everyone has a personal locker where we keep a box to take to our desk for the day (keyboard, mouse, pens, headset and other paraphernalia); I also have a clean shirt and a suit stored (I cycle to work). It’s been working well for us since last spring.

      1. I'm just here for the cats!!*

        but a lockbox isn’t going to do much good if the significant other is going to take it and break into it. And you wouldn’t want to leave those documents in a car either. I think if the issue is a.partner who may be controlling going through items then maybe the boss can help them by allowing them to use a company scanner to scan digital copies of items to store in the cloud/thumb drive and maybe find a security deposit box at a bank for the hard copies.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          I thought the suggestion was that instead of all the files being filed in the unlocked filing cabinet at work, the coworker should have all her personal stuff in a lockbox, and the lockbox in the filing cab at work. Then getting all her personal stuff out of work is just a matter of grabbing her lockbox. Also keeps it private from people in the office.

  10. MistOrMister*

    I would be pretty annoyed if my boss was randomly sending me videos on how to keep a clean workspace. As if we are not all adults….

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        That was my exact word for it. I might be able to let this go once without feeling weirded out by it, but more than one? I would wonder what is wrong with my desk, or what is wrong with my boss.

        If you think someone’s desk is too messy, address it with them; don’t just passive-aggressively send desk cleaning videos (why are these even a thing) to your entire team.

        1. Sunflower*

          I agree. It always annoys me when one (or a few) person has a problem, but it’s addressed to the entire office. It makes us all aware there’s a problem when we never noticed before and wonder who they are *really* talking about.

    2. Alan*

      Yeah, I leave things in particular places (on my desk and on my computer desktop) so that I can easily pick up where I left off in the morning.

    3. Salty Caramel*

      I hate desk police, but some people insist that you can’t think if your desk isn’t minimalist in decor and everything is as aligned as a bed with hospital corners.

    4. Strive to Excel*

      I’ve got people in my life who love sending me cleaning/organizing hacks, not because they think I need it but because they think it looks cool. Especially anything with fancy clothing folding. That might be what’s going on here vs passive-aggressive “your desk is dirty!”

      2. Irish Teacher.*

        Given what she say about “trying to set a good example” and how she likes a nice, clean desk, I more get the impression that she is trying to encourage everybody to keep their desks in the way she likes them.

    5. NotAnotherManager!*

      My experience, as someone who is not a clean desk person, is that there are a decent number of folks who’ve really internalized that whole “cleanliness is next to godliness thing” and truly think less of you if you’ve got a stack of paperwork or your half-eaten lunch (that you’re in the process of eating) in view. A subset of those need more actual work to do so that they are not judging/policing the workspaces of others (obviously not those who are creating fire hazards with their paper piles or leaving gross food/containers on their desks).

      LW #4 did an excellent job hitting ALL my buttons – neat freak who insists that their way is the right way, sending videos like we can’t figure out how to file paper and wipe up crubs on our own, and then copping to be a snoop in other people’s desks (which is especially great if the target is someone who is keeping their personal papers at work because home is not a safe place to have them, but invasive even if that’s not the case).

  11. NorthernTeacher*

    OP #3 I’m wondering if this would also fit into a concern about a colleague having 1:1 access to a supervisor over others that has been noted many times on this site. OP says that they are not a direct manager with the 2nd colleague, but then indicates they could not speak to that colleague about a problem, “needed to be disciplined.” There is no indication of the hierarchy with the preferred colleague, but private access to a supervisor could be problematic, could it not? Even more so when people become aware that the 2nd colleague was removed from the carpool, but things continue with the first.

  12. Apex Mountain*

    Stop snooping around your employees desks. Would you want them rifling through your stuff and commenting on anything personal that they might see?

    Of course it’s not wise to leave a bunch of papers like that unlocked, but it’s still not your business – and stop sending videos on that, you are going to lose credibility with the staff. Your noseyness isn’t their problem

    1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

      I agree that the LW is too dedicated to her own way of doing things, but looking for a document in file drawers at work is not “snooping.”

      1. Red Baron*

        Snooping through documents to an extent that allows detailed information of what the documents are, long past the short glance necessary to know whether the file is the needed file or not, is not just “looking for a document”.

  13. I'm just here for the cats!!*

    #4 I disagree a bit with Alison here. I think as a manager it is their responsibility to let the employee know that work is not the right place for such personal.documents. Explain that anything that is personal could be seen as company property. For example when I was let go of a job I couldn’t take any papers with me. they had to then go through all of my stuff, my notebooks and folders and ship my items to me.

    also, of the job or company could be subject to open records requests or audits the employees paperwork may be subject to that request of its being kept with other company paperwork.

    So I think the OP should have had a conversation with her employee about why they are keeping these private documents at work. maybe they dont have a secure place to store them and then maybe help find solutions, like a thumb drive to hold digital scans.

    1. Pickles*

      I don’t know. In an office many people have personal items. I have photos of my family hung up, awards I received at prior jobs, books and manuals that I personally own, I have a back up pair of sneakers and some soup and tea. Sometimes I will leave a portfolio at work and sometimes personal paperwork is in there.
      I see nothing wrong with have a file of personal paperwork in the office. If I were the boss I would have looked the other way. It’s not impacting her performance or impacting another person.

    2. NotAnotherManager!*

      It’s fine to explain this if there is an actual workplace/records policy forbidding it or just as an FYI to new-to-the-workplace employees about the possible risks of leaving personal documents there (others seeing them, identity theft, a delay in receiving them in the event of involuntary separation, etc.). It would have to be a really stringent compliance situation where clearly personal documents would be subject to a public records request or an auditor would not simply recommend documents be relocated – honestly, they tend to care more about the required documents being present versus irrelevant documents.

      I would not choose to keep my personal records at work, but I just don’t think that it’s that big a deal absent a few narrow situations that don’t apply to most workplaces.

    3. Lisa*

      Personal stuff at work isn’t universally not allowed! I keep backup photocopies of key personal documents at work in case of a house fire, but they go in one folder in a filing drawer that locks. If keeping personal records at the office is actually not allowed at that employer, then the LW wouldn’t be writing in, they’d just explain that to their employee.

  14. Alan*

    This reminds me of a senior engineer at work who had stacks (like 5-6 feet tall) of papers around his office walls. He had just enough room to walk to his desk and sit behind it. It seemed to work for him. He knew where to find stuff. But his office looked like he was a hoarder. Just stacks of paper everywhere. The Northridge earthquake hit and the office was a complete mess. I can still picture it. Paper everywhere. I think he developed a better system after that.

    1. NotAnotherManager!*

      We moved to an open plan office a few years ago, and at least two people tried to build themselves an “office” using this method just for some privacy. :)

  15. Tuesday Tacos*

    I know this is an old letter now but
    LW#4 if your co-worker is going through a divorce that might be the only place safe to keep her personal papers right now. My ex husband stole all of our financial papers and all my personal papers. Although I would suggest this stuff be in a locked drawer.

    3. cue*

      It’s getting wildly and unnecessarily speculative here. Most people can eat sandwiches, in other words.

      I mean, very likely, everyone will have personal files at work, either in print or electronic format, or both, but work isn’t a storage area for mass amounts of it. In my own experience, vast amounts of personal files is a huge sign of someone who spends an inordinate amount of time using work time to manage errands and tasks that belong at home, in a library, etc.

    4. ReallyBadPerson*

      Yep. My daughter stashed all of her financial stuff, kids’ passports, etc. with a friend as she was preparing to leave. But for some people, work is their only safe space.

  16. Sneaky Squirrel*

    #4 – Ideally your employees are not keeping their health claims, credit card bills, or mortgage statements in office but even if you addressed those, they’re still going to have personal items such as wallets, purses. The same privacy concerns exist. The bigger issue to me is that the employee’s personal items are sharing a space with work related items. The employee really should have a lockable drawer dedicated for their personal items so that the employees can’t accidentally run into these personal documents.

  17. DramaQ*

    I had a lot of my grandmother’s Medicaid/nursing home paperwork in my desk at work. All the people I had to deal with were only available during my work hours and there was just too much stuff to try to memorize. If I had been shuttling it back/forth I would have ended up forgetting some random paper that department Y needed and they would refuse to talk to me until I found it.

    While I understand keeping at work wasn’t ideal it was the best solution for a really crappy situation. The deadline for the application is a hard stop. There were days when I would end up on hold and have my cell on speaker so I could hear if a human picked up while I did my job around the waiting time. It would have been piling it on for someone to send me regular updates about keeping a tidy workspace or talk to me about my grandma’s files sitting in my drawer.

  18. Not an expert*

    It seems sensible for OP#3 to try to maintain a positive working relationship with the newer employee. Their roles may change over time; they may need to work more with with each other directly in the future. At a minimum, they’ll need to be civil to each other in the the workplace. The OP can’t predict how the person who is being purposefully excluded (for no clear reason) will feel, but there is a big chance that it will be hurtful.
    OP, can you find a compromise to allow her to save face? Could you tolerate carpooling with her less frequently? Once or twice a week? “Sorry, carpooling everyday isn’t working for me. I often need the back seat for my guitars/groceries/recycling/Great Dane/neighbours kids etc”

    1. Gyal*

      I think there is a large spectrum between “No is a complete sentence” and “there is a big chance that it will be hurtful.”

      The potential to eliminate potential hurt or to do things like tolerate carpooling with her less frequently does not seem to be an option here.

      Sometimes the answer is “No I can’t or won’t do this. And, yes my doing this will make things uncomfortable.”

    2. DJ*

      It is hard as it sounds like purely saying “I’ll only give lifts to those who come to my place” won’t work. If they don’t get on or if you simply decide you don’t want to you are within your right to say no.

  21. ACN37*

    #3 – Do we know how much extra time it was taking to carpool with this extra person? If it added significant time, there’s a reasonable out right there. Personal time adds up, after all. Are these people contributing for gas, etc? That seems like a fair ask too, especially if it’s every day, and the driver is taking personal time to pick people up and drop them off.

    If it were me, I’d end the carpooling and give them 3-4 weeks to find new transportation.

    Alternatively, if OP feels that they have to continue carpooling for the sake of the office relationships, I’d ask them to contribute for gas, and ask for relative quiet/positivity on the rides.

    Also, are these 2 people punctual? Has timing been an issue either before or after work? That’s another consideration.

  23. DJ*

    #3 I used to have to pick up and drop off a coworker when we travelled to work. Often I’d have to go out of my way. They would also insist on leaving and arriving home at times that would mean me jamming through traffic going from theirs to my place. But they weren’t open to changing departure times to help me avoid traffic (leave earlier or later especially when travelling home)
    Wouldn’t have mattered so much IF I hadn’t had a long complicated commute to work 5 days pw (before COVID).
    However it was with a work car that I could take home and thus work paid for the petrol and I could drive back to the office the following day.
    Couldn’t really think of a workable solution other than taking 2 work cars being a waste of petrol and resources.

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