director lied to HR about what I told him, fiance’s boss makes me cut her hair, and more

by Alison Green on December 19, 2024

I’m on vacation. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives.

1. My director lied to HR about what I told him

I’ve worked at my job for a little over two years. Six months after I started, my new boss Pam was hired. Working with her has been challenging, and other departments have been complaining about her unprofessional behavior and tendency to snap at people, bully, and generally be unpleasant.

My department had our once-a-year meetings with our department director, Adam, and all shared how difficult working with Pam has been. I don’t expect anything to actually be addressed (whole other issue with having a department director who is terrified of “confrontation”) but figured that at least now he had all the information and it was up to him how to proceed.

Well, about a week later, my coworker told me that our HR director stopped by and told her how glad she was that it had all been resolved. What? Turns out Adam went to the HR director and said we had all separately come to him in the week after our meetings and told him that everything had been resolved, it was just stress from our conference, Pam was fine, everything was great, and there were no issues.

This conversation never happened. Not only did it not happen, it couldn’t have happened because he and I weren’t in the office at the same time for that entire week, and my other coworkers also didn’t have this conversation with him. Things with Pam definitely haven’t been improved, and one of our team members is leaving rather than continue working with her.

I spoke to our HR director and clarified that I’d never had this conversation with Adam, but I’m not sure what to do next. She believed me and seemed disappointed but I’m not sure anything further will happen. I feel weird meeting or talking to him now, knowing that he’d outright lie to another director about a conversation with me that never happened. Should I talk to him about it? I can’t get past that he’d do something so bizarre.

Wow. Assuming your other coworkers didn’t tell Adam everything was okay (which is a possibility you’ve got to consider!), this is a serious breach from Adam — it’s a violation of his responsibility to your team, and it’s a violation of his responsibility to the company. It’s pretty shocking, actually. It’s a flagrant lie in service of … what? His desire to avoid conflict? His desire to make HR think he has everything under control?

Whether or not to say something to him depends on how much you trust he won’t penalize you for it. If you feel safe speaking up, I’d say, “Jane told me you said we all told you our concerns about Pam had been resolved. I didn’t say that and don’t feel that way. Did I say something to give you that impression?” … and, “I continue to think the problems with Pam are serious ones, and I’ve clarified that to HR.”

Encourage your coworkers to talk to HR directly too so that HR is clear on (a) how much of a problem Pam really is and (b) the extent of Adam’s lie. It’s also reasonable for you to say to HR, “I’m concerned that Adam heard us speak up about a serious problem but then told you we changed our minds and there are no issues. This wasn’t a misunderstanding; I don’t know how to read it as anything other than an attempt to mislead you. Where do we go from here?”

– 2019

Read an update to this letter here.

2. My fiance’s boss makes me cut her hair

My question is centered around my fiancé’s boss. I’m a hair stylist, he works in marketing. When his boss found out I do hair, she told him she wanted to come to me to get her hair done. He wasn’t sure at first because we try to keep our personal lives and work lives separate, but she insisted. She says I have to do it for free. She doesn’t just want a quick trim. I have to relax her hair, dye it lighter, cut it, and style it. The process of doing her hair takes hours and I can’t work on other clients during that time, and it costs hundreds of dollars. She doesn’t pay for it or leave me a tip. It ends up costing me money because I’m an independent contractor. I rent my chair in the salon and I have to give the salon a cut of all the money I get paid. She also snaps her fingers at me to get my attention and can sometimes be stuck-up to me and my colleagues and other clients. One time she got mad when I told her my hair color was mine and not dyed after she asked how I keep my bleached hair so healthy and she told my fiancé I had a bit of an attitude. She is not pleasant to work on or be around.

I only said yes to doing her hair because my fiancé begged me to do it since she kept asking him and would not take no for an answer. I thought it would be a one time thing. I can’t keep doing her hair because I’m losing money and this is making me look bad in front of my colleagues and our other clients. It’s straining our relationship. I’m emailing you because I have had it. In order to get her to stop, what should my fiancé say? (I can’t do it because she’s not my boss and besides, if I do she’ll just run to him and get on his back about it.)

Actually, I’d try handling this yourself rather than going through your fiancé. The next time she calls you to schedule an appointment, why not tell her that the salon you work at is no longer allowing you to accept non-paying clients? Or that you’re fully booked for the next four months? Or even just say, “I need to let you know ahead of time that can’t do your hair for free anymore. My rate is $X. Would you still like to book the appointment?” (And there’s nothing wrong with adding a “jerk fee” on to your rate to account for the pain in the ass you know she’ll be.)

If your fiancé thinks this will go over better if she hears it from him first, then he can certainly convey any of this to her. But the key for both of you is to just be matter-of-fact when you deliver the message. Don’t dance around it or try to sugarcoat it. Tell her directly and matter-of-factly as if of course this makes sense, because it does. If she pushes back, just cheerfully say, “Nope, sorry, I do need to charge!” (Or that you don’t have room in your schedule, or so forth.)

– 2018

3. I don’t want to fist-bump my coworker multiple times a day

This seems so petty and insignificant in the grand scheme of things but it’s bugging me and I’m not sure how to handle it.

Fergus is my peer and we have the same title and work in the same department. Broadly speaking, we’re supervisors in customer service. Part of our job involves walking around to ensure that no one needs help answering difficult questions for our clients. So we’re frequently mobile and moving around between desks.

My issue is that Fergus will, at least a couple of times a day, come over and offer his hand for either a fist-bump or high-five during his interactions with me. He does this with everyone as far as I can tell — men, women, young, old, direct reports, peers, etc. There’s no rhyme or reason. Sometimes it’s part of a “Hey, great job!” recognition but other times it’s just part of him saying “I’m leaving for lunch now” or there’s no reason at all, he just comes by and sticks his hand out.

I don’t want to be a stick in the mud because I’m positive his intentions are pure and it’s just part of his way of communicating, but I truly do not want to make physical contact with any of my coworkers beyond the occasional necessary handshake. Social conventions make me feel obligated to return the gesture but I’m internally rolling my eyes as hard as possible while doing so. However, I’m at a loss on how to decline to participate in this without sounding like a complete jerk. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

A couple of times a day??

If it were, like, a couple of times a month or even once a week, I’d tell you to think of it the same way you would a handshake, where it would generally come across as rude to refuse (aside from the obvious exceptions, like sickness).

But a couple of times a day is weirdly frequent, and you can opt out.

Next time he sticks out his hand for a fist bump or high five or whatever, try saying, “You know, I’m not really a fist bumper” or “I’m not a big high fiver.” And then follow it up with something else so that statement isn’t just hanging between you in silence. The whole thing might sound like, “You know, I’m not really a fist bumper — but have a great lunch!” or “You know, I’m not really a high fiver, but yeah, I’m excited that we’re publishing the paper!”

(This approach is suitable for unwanted hugs, too — “I’m not a hugger but it’s great to see you,” etc.)

Say it matter-of-factly and cheerfully. You want your tone to convey “this is just a useful thing to know about me … and also, I still like you,” not “you have offended me by trying to touch my skin.”

You might have to do this a couple of times before the message sinks in, but I bet he’ll get the message after the second time.

He might think you’re a little weird, but hey, you already think he’s a little weird so maybe that’s okay.

And if you’re concerned about him thinking you’re being chilly, make a point of counteracting that by being purposefully warm to him in other ways — say something genuinely enthusiastic about the thing he wants to high-five you for, ask him how his day is going when you see him in other contexts, compliment some work he did that you genuinely like, and so forth.

– 2019

Read an update to this letter here.

4. Visitors decline my beverage offers but then accept it from other people

I work as a receptionist in an office. I always offer guests who come to meet with people in the office (for interviews or meetings) coffee and water. Some people say yes, some people say no. Several times now, people have said, ”No thanks, I just had some” or just a simple ”No thanks,” BUT when the person who they are there to see comes and ask if they want coffee, the guest says ”YES please, I would LOVE some.” One time, one asked if they had been offered coffee and the guest said, “No I haven’t, but I would like some.”

Why does this happen? Why do they say yes when I literally asked five minutes ago? Do they not want to say no the person they are seeing, even though they don’t actually want it? Do they want to seem like a yes person? When they say no and then yes, it makes it look like I haven’t offered. I’ve already told my manager about this- just in case other employees tell her I never offer. So at least if that happens, she knows I actually do ask.

It can’t be something I’m doing wrong, right? I mean, there are only so many ways to politely ask someone if they would like something to drink. So this makes me wonder, the next time I go to an interview, should I say yes to coffee or water even though I don’t want any? Would it look bad if I say no?

Some people who say no and then yes have probably just changed their minds. They may have said no without thinking and then realized, “Actually, coffee sounds good!” And yes, others might figure they should accept an offer of hospitality from their interviewer, when they didn’t feel that same dynamic with you. Other people are “Aw, hell, they’ve asked twice, I’ll just say yes” people. Or they might be thinking it would be weird to walk into the interview with coffee, but then when the interviewer themselves offers, they decide it’s fine. In other words — there are lots of explanations here, and it’s (a) nothing you’re doing wrong and (b) nothing you should worry about.

When you yourself are interviewing, you can accept coffee/water if you want it, and decline it if you don’t. It’s fine either way. (That said, I did once work with someone who was convinced that she could tell things about candidates by how they handled the offer of a beverage. I asked her about it a long time ago and quoted her in this post, where she said, “It’s a measure of politeness extended, politeness rejected or accepted, and how it’s done. I don’t care if they accept the drink or not, but I do pay attention to how they respond to the offer. Also, I pay attention to whether they dispose of the cup themselves, or leave it for me to do myself. Tells me so much about what kind of person they are.” I think that’s reading far too much into it, but it’s certainly worth remembering that whatever you do, you should be polite about it.)

– 2019

4. My boss takes all the work

I work on a small team, led by a supervisor, “Ned,” who has normally been great. Our team members, including Ned, have equivalent qualifications in our field, though Ned is by far the most experienced.

He participates in every project he has time for, on top of his normal tasks. He absorbs new skills like a sponge, almost never delegating new projects to us. When upper management passes special projects down to the team, he intercepts them. If there’s a conference, he’s the only one to attend. What’s baffling is that he has been in this position for about 15 years, and doesn’t seem interested in an upper management role.

The problem isn’t that he takes on more than he can handle. It leaves the rest of us drumming our fingers and without enough work to do. When we suggest new projects, he immediately shuts them down. He won’t consider sharing his responsibilities. I’m fighting for work I’m qualified to do. I don’t have a sense of what could be making him think that we can’t handle it, or why he’s so driven to outperform everyone else. We’re on the same team!

He does have a good handle on the other elements of management. Getting him to delegate real tasks to the team is the difficulty, especially since it’s hard for us to improve without new skills. Maybe the answer is to be more assertive about asking for projects. Maybe we’re sending nonverbal signals that we don’t want to step up our game. Any advice for taking control of the situation?

Talk to him about it! He may have no idea that he’s stifling the rest of you. He may even think that he’s saving you from work, not realizing that you’d like to have that work.

Alternately, it’s possible that this is stemming from insecurity, where he’s afraid that if other people develop their skills, he’ll be outshone … not realizing that would actually reflect well on him as a manager. (And presumably not realizing that giving people opportunities to increase their skills and contribute at higher and higher levels is what a good manager should do, if the context allows for it.) If that’s the problem, you may run into more resistance.

But either way, step one is to talk to him. Say something like this: “I’m really interested in taking on projects like X and Y. I’d like to develop my skills in ABC and I can’t do that without the chance to work on new types of projects. I also often end up without enough work to fill my weeks, and I’m much happier when I’m busy. Would you consider sending more work my way, and in particular things like XYZ?”

If he resists, you could say, “To be honest, this is directly tied to my job satisfaction here. It’s really important to me to get opportunities to take on new things so that I’m not stagnating. If you don’t think I’m ready for those types of projects now, can we talk about what I’d need to work on improving in so that I’m able to take them on in the future?”

– 2018

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{ 130 comments }

{ 130 comments… read them below }

  1. Ashley Armbruster*

    I read update #1, but is there another update? I hope OP found a better job. That pants on fire lying liar director is probably either promoted or got another cushy job.

    I’ve known other lying liar directors who get away with it because upper management is easily bamboozled, but surely there must be some cases where they are actually found out??

    1. BellaStella*

      I hope they left. I also have had for 5 years a liar as director who enables a missing stair too, and I am finally transferring teams now to a known good manager.

    2. Archi-detect*

      Yeah it sounds like he is lying without a plan not running an elaborate conspiracy, so it feels like it will fall apart pretty easily

  2. Testing*

    I know letter 4 is from years ago, but if I were the OP, I’d try to let the visitor settle into their seat in wherever they will meet the person first, and then — kind of as a slighty separate conversation, although the pause can be brief — I’d ask whether they want a drink. Sometimes the arrival and meeting the first person and getting seated and putting your stuff somewhere is just a bit too much to then also handle the thought of coffee. In the situation, they might even forget that they were already asked and therefore later say they weren’t offered any.

    All the scenarios Alison mentions are still possible, even if you do this. But I’d bet it would cut down on the occasions it happens.

    1. NotAnotherManager!*

      I agree with this, and I also wonder if having a drink in the reception area is just a little awkward? Like, when the person you’re meeting with comes to get you, do you carry it with you to the interview, do you have a free hand to shake hands and carry your stuff, it just complicates things the way a drink once you’re settled/seated in the meeting/interview does not.

  3. DontWorkForFree*

    I’d love to hear an update on the hair stylist! I can’t believe the audacity of the boss demanding free services that take hours!

    1. Elsa*

      I really hope the update is that the fiance left that job long ago. A boss who behaves like that at the hairdresser’s is probably horrible at the office as well.

    3. linger*

      The original comment thread was quite the ride, and yes, I wish there’d been some update.
      But one possible reason there hasn’t been is that Alison had to explicitly warn people against insulting the fiancé. (Current commenters please note.)
      Such comments did not add to the advice for LW2, and the resulting attacks/defences of the fiancé mostly relied on fan-fiction.

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, because when you’re in a situation where your financial well-being depends on the person in question, it’s really hard to push back. That said, I really hope fiance doesn’t work with that woman anymore and has a nice, normal boss now.

        1. CityMouse*

          True but LW could easily be put thousands of dollars quite quickly based in the described services. One of those things where the cost will add up quite quickly to maybe more than fiance would be out finding a new job.

        2. Festively Dressed Earl*

          Same here. McKayla posted a comment from the original LW downthread a bit; it sounds like fiancé’s boss was outright threatening to fire him and blackball him from his industry if he didn’t comply with her demands. He wouldn’t have asked LW to do this if he wasn’t working in a Borg cube full of bees. I’d love to know what Alison would have advised if fiancé had written to AAM about this situation.

          1. Heidi*

            “My boss will fire me unless my fiance does her hair for free.” I’m guessing the advice would be to find another job quickly because the boss will not stop at this.

    5. Minerva*

      Right!? A quick trim for free would have been an eyeroll but maybe worth it to keep the peace. But that is some level of entitlement, without even a tip!

    6. Insert Clever Name Here*

      Same! In lieu of an update, I’m choosing to believe:
      [] OP asked the salon to decline scheduling the boss for future appointments (which they happily agreed to since boss was a nightmare to have in the salon even if she was paying and they were sympathetic to the fact that it’s not always easy to say “no” to a boss hellbent on stomping all over people dependent on them while wearing a bananapant suit)
      [] OP held fast to “oh I can’t keep track of my availability! you’ll have to call the salon to make an appointment” if cornered in person,
      [] the fiancé held fast to “yeah, OP said the only way to make an appointment is to call the salon” as he interviewed for and found a better job (I’m also choosing to believe that fiancé had told OP all along “you really do not have to do this, I’ll take whatever consequences”).

      I have an appointment today to get my hair done and cannot believe the audacity to act this way!

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        It sounds like the OP books all her own appointments, though, so I don’t think asking the salon to run interference would have worked. That said, I, too, desperately want an update to this letter. I highly doubt OP continues to do that woman’s hair after five years, but I want to know how it all turned out. And unless the fiance is a total pushover, I also doubt he’s still working for that monster.

        1. Insert Clever Name Here*

          I know all salons operate differently, but when my stylist was renting a chair at a salon I still booked through the front and not through my stylist. It doesn’t have to be true for it to work, but regardless of how they went about it I deeply hope OP was able to stop doing the boss’ hair very soon.

      2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        I have a hair appointment tomorrow and I am appalled at this behavior. I’m only getting a trim (an inch maaaybee) but I tip well because dealing with my hair can be a pain.

        There’s two kinds of people — those who appreciate the work, even for the simple parts and are willing to pay for it and those who expect freebies for a lot of work as their due.

    7. LaminarFlow*

      That letter made me seethe on the LW’s behalf! I hope she all of a sudden got booked out for the next 10-3,000 months, with absolutely no openings. I don’t even think an added jerk fee would be worth booking the boyfriend’s boss as a paying client.

      I don’t understand people who think others should work for free.

      1. an infinite number of monkeys*

        Seriously! I came away from that thinking some people just don’t deserve to have hair.

        1. MsM*

          Being a jerk to people with access to scissors and chemicals that can fry it off your head strikes me as a deeply risky move, but what do I know?

          2. But what to call me?*

            That boss sounds like the kind of person who is so completely sure of their power over everyone ‘beneath’ them that they can’t imagine their behavior could ever have consequences for them.

      2. Slow Gin Lizz*

        I do think that OP’s problem could easily be solved by simply telling bosslady that she was booked for the next 10-3,000 months, no matter how much of a lie it is. It sounds like bosslady has the kind of hairstyle that requires it to be done fairly frequently (every month or two? I don’t know how that kind of thing works) so it’d be easy enough for OP to say that she suddenly has an uptick in clients and won’t have time in her schedule for a non-paying customer.

        Bosslady sounds horrible. I agree that she doesn’t deserve to have hair.

      1. On Fire*

        +1000000000000. At risk of sounding like a Redditor, that made me wonder whether there were other instances of him diminishing her career in advancement of his. It would have made me reevaluate the relationship.

        1. It’s me!*

          What she should’ve done was charge the finance for boss service, he wants em done, let him pay for his main lady’s hair lol.
          Yes, I would’ve dumped him. Do not try to co-op me, thank you very much. Frankly it’s pretty gross. Reminds me of the boss who tried to sell his employees skills basically, that were unrelated to the job they were doing for him! I don’t know why some people think when you work for them you (and your family?) become their indentured servants or some shit, but oh hell no.

      2. ferrina*

        Right?! That was the part that got me. The fiancé has a terrible boss, and he’s putting it on OP to manage this issue. He should be running interference, not making OP beg for this! At a bare minimum, he should be reimbursing OP for the financial hit she’s taking because of his boss. Realistically, he should have been continuing to say no while looking for another job (and I wouldn’t blame him if he claimed that OP had left styling and was now working strictly as a llama groomer)

    9. McKayla*

      There won’t be an update. The Letter Writer (posting under the name Jenny M) commented on the original post:

      I wrote the second letter. Thank you for answering me Alison. I am going to try your suggested scripts. They are appreciated :)

      (I am completely upset, dismayed and confused with the comments. My fiance is a good man. He has never bullied me. He isn’t a boot licker and he is isn’t spineless. I don’t know why people here would make such hurtful and unture comments. I didn’t think the commenters here were like that. I guess I was wrong. She will NOT take know for an answer. His job, his reference and his chance of getting another job in this city is on the line. Like I said in my letter, he BEGGED me to do it so he wouldn’t get fired. He DIDN’T want me to do it because we keep work and personal separate. He always puts me first. He paid for my hair school and worked 2 jobs to support me while I was in school. He always puts me first. He helped me stand up to my parents when they wanted me to go to law school and I wanted to do hair instead. I am floored at the comments here. He is not at all like what people are saying about him. I agreed to do it because he likes his career and I didn’t want his boss to use her influence here to torpedo his chances like she said she will. She is one of the best known people in his industry around here and she made it clear to him there was no choice. Everyone who is saying bad things about him is not even close. I will be staying away from the comments from now on)

      1. Hlao-roo*

        Thanks for finding that comment and posting it here! I hope things are better for Jenny M and her fiance (husband?) by now.

      2. Festively Dressed Earl*

        Thank you for posting this. It sounds easy to tell fiancé to shove it, but we’re assuming that he could find a comparable job in the area within a reasonable time frame (if at all), that HR or a lawyer would have intervened if the boss had tried to make good on her threat, or that LW’s household could absorb the financial hit of one partner being unemployed for a time. I know that if my husband’s job depended on me providing 4 dozen homemade cookies every day or something, I’d do it until he found another gig because we’d both be under duress.

        1. But what to call me?*

          Some commenters do sure like to assume that everyone can either quickly find another job or survive without an income for however long it might take to find one.

          It’s understandable, because it’s infuriating to think that a boss is getting away with treating people like this and it’s satisfying to think about doing something about it, but we aren’t the ones trying to balance the potential loss of one partner’s entire income vs. the partial loss of income and general unpleasantness of cutting this boss’s hair for free. Or, for that matter, the ones living with the reality-warping stress of spending every day under the power of someone who believes wholeheartedly that they can act like that and no one can do anything about it.

    10. Peter the Bubblehead*

      I’m sorry, but the first time the boss tried to walk out without paying I would have said, “You do realize this is my profession and supplies cost money. If you don’t pay for the services rendered I will be calling the police and filing a complaint for theft of services.”
      I would also make sure the fiance’ reports what has occurred to his company HR in case the boss retaliates on him. Boss needs to go!

      1. Slow Gin Lizz*

        In an ideal world, yes, it would be very satisfying for us commenters if OP had called the police on the boss, but it does sound like boss is terribly abusive and could have done real harm to the fiance and his future career if OP had done something like that. Sigh.

      3. But what to call me?*

        With a boss who is this sure they can get away with such blatantly terrible behavior, I wouldn’t be at all confident in HR’s ability or willingness to do anything about it. Maybe they can and will, but I wouldn’t stake my career on it. And even if HR does do their job, there’s probably not much they can do about the boss retaliating by trashing the fiance’s reputation outside the company.

    11. Grandma*

      Here’s my imaginary update: OP told fiancé’s boss she had to pay because reasons. Boss said, “fine,” came in and forked over a $20 after the work was done. In a “Choose Your Own Adventure” the next fork in the road would have been A) OP accepted the “payment,” B) OP filed in small claims court, or C) OP and fiancé parted ways. Nowhere in this scenario do I see Boss graciously forking out several hundred dollars.

    12. Mallory Janis Ian*

      In my revenge fantasy I was hoping that the OP accepted the boss’s next appointment request and then met her at the door with a bucket of ice water, with which she gave the boss a full-body dousing before she could even enter the establishment.

    13. Jaina Solo*

      Same! This post was so hard to read because the entitlement of the boss to expect all that work free…eep!

      I try to tip my stylist well and be so understanding and chill because she’s amazing and I need her to not boot me off her client list. (I have really thick hair and most stylists aren’t comfortable with it so I value her expertise, plus she’s a cool person that’s fun to hang out with at my appointments.) I know she’s had to fire people, and have worried when my mom canceled a couple appointments the same day with her–I haven’t suggested my mom see my stylist since because it’s so rude to same-day cancel twice in a row.

      I liked Alison’s approach of saying the “salon said no” but I’d wonder if the salon owner would have minded being the “authority figure who said no” in this case. Sometimes a shop owner/manager/what have you will carry more weight with entitled people. Although the stylist should be able to say no without retaliation.

    2. Account*

      Nesting fail but amen. The boss insisting “Your partner must cut my hair”— how did that become the partner’s problem?? The only answer is “Oh sorry, she doesn’t cut hair for free, and no, you can’t have her phone number.”

      1. Antilles*

        Probably, though I’ll leave open the possibility for the partner not initially realizing the boss was expecting it for free. If my boss asked me “hey, your wife does hair, I’d really love a new stylist, would she be willing to take me on as a client”, it would never occur to me that boss is expecting it free, it would just be like if my boss asked if I knew a trustworthy mechanic or a good yard guy. Maybe I’d still try to decline for the potential awkwardness, but I would assume that the boss would be just like any other client.

        1. Mike*

          Yeah, this didn’t all happen at once; it grew from various smaller incursions into LW’s life, piece by piece, and by the time she realized what was happening, she was knee deep in it.

      2. Observer*

        Well, apparently there were a couple of issues in play.

        For one thing, that LW had some very weird ideas about standing. Like she said that she “can’t” say anything to the boss because she’s not the employee. But it’s the exact reverse. It’s *because* the is not the employee that she has the *most* standing to say “Sorry, no can do.”

        The other is that both the LW and the fiance are convinced that Boss is some super powerful person who could single-handedly torpedo the fiance’s whole career. It’s hard to blame someone for doing stupid stuff when faced with a threat like that.

        1. Typity*

          Boss is as manipulative as any other extortionist, it seems — “You’ll never work in this town again!” Even if Boss had that kind of power, Fiance still had a responsibility not to drag the LW into it. He made HIS boss problem into a threat to HER livelihood (neat trick!). He had no business “begging” her to work for free — what an absurd thing to be happening between two adults.

          Anyway, I hope those two are long since married and far away from that job and his terrible boss, and that either one or both has since developed a spine.

          1. Observer*

            Anyway, I hope those two are long since married and far away from that job and his terrible boss,

            Totally agree!

            As for the rest, I don’t think you are being entirely fair here. His job *is* her business, because they are a unit. And it’s also not unreasonable or even all that unusual for one partner to do things to help the other’s career. And that’s before you get to the LW’s comment that her fiance took on a lot of extra work to put her through her choice of schooling.

            1. Typity*

              Sure, but she’s working for hours, while losing money, for a terrible client, not to help his career, but to keep his boss from crashing it. Those seem different situations. But in any event, we do agree in hoping they are long since out of the whole mess!

        2. StarTrek Nutcase*

          Unfortunately, such powerful people do exist (big fish in small pool). In my early 39s, I worked for such a person. He was bulletproof and my income was crucial to not being homeless. So I can understand LW & fiance’s hesitation in antagonizing his boss. In my case, without his reference, I wouldn’t have gotten a job even close to that one with 200 miles. Luckily, he wasn’t an asshat, unreasonable or vindictive – though he was brutally honest which meant if an employee was mediocre or sucked that’s exactly what he would say.

          AND commenters who criticize the fiance should work on their empathy. It’s easy to say what you would do when it isn’t your livelihood under threat or you’re not as risk averse due to upbringing, nature, or financial security. In a perfect world, I would have grown a spine at 25 not 50, but it’s a process.

          1. Wayward Sun*

            One of the things I don’t miss about small town life is that small towns are full of people like that.

          2. But what to call me?*

            Even if the boss doesn’t actually have that power, if OP and fiance are early career or otherwise not very familiar with the landscape of the field it could be easy for them to believe that the boss did have that power. In my 20s I spent 6 months in a job that had me almost throwing up with anxiety every single morning because I was sure if I quit too soon it would be a horrible black mark on my resume that my career would never recover from. I didn’t have the experience to know better and neither did anyone else in my family because we were all just guessing about how ‘professional’ jobs were supposed to work.

    3. ecnaseener*

      I was going to say, I hope they had a long engagement with plenty of pre-marital counseling and/or individual counseling — I don’t think the fiancé is beyond hope, but both of them needed to get to a place where they were able to set boundaries (and support each other in setting boundaries!!) before making any permanent decisions.

    4. Insert Clever Name Here*

      OP2* replied as Jenny M. on the original post and it sounds like she and fiancé are between a rock and a hard place.

      I am completely upset, dismayed and confused with the comments. My fiance is a good man. He has never bullied me. He isn’t a boot licker and he is isn’t spineless. I don’t know why people here would make such hurtful and unture comments. I didn’t think the commenters here were like that. I guess I was wr0ng. She will NOT take know for an answer. His job, his reference and his chance of getting another job in this city is on the line. Like I said in my letter, he BEGGED me to do it so he wouldn’t get fired. He DIDN’T want me to do it because we keep work and personal separate. He always puts me first. He paid for my hair school and worked 2 jobs to support me while I was in school. He always puts me first. He helped me stand up to my parents when they wanted me to go to law school and I wanted to do hair instead. I am floored at the comments here. He is not at all like what people are saying about him. I agreed to do it because he likes his career and I didn’t want his boss to use her influence here to torpedo his chances like she said she will. She is one of the best known people in his industry around here and she made it clear to him there was no choice. Everyone who is saying bad things about him is not even close. I will be staying away from the comments from now on

  5. atma*

    On the beverage question – I know if I was waiting for a job interview say, I probabaly wouldn’t feel comfortable having a cup in my hand. Now that I write it, it sounds irrational, but that’s still how I’d feel, whereas when the interviewer offers the beverage it’s part of our interaction. So nothing wrong on the part of OP at all, more part of the dynamic with the person I’m visiting

    2. hbc*

      Other factors probably play in too, like still being in slightly anxious/frazzled mode just coming into a strange place and not even registering the boilerplate stuff, and/or defaulting to be less of a burden on someone who isn’t specifically booked to spend time on you.

      I bet the receptionist would get some takers if a couple minutes later they said, “You sure you don’t want anything? I’ve got coffee, tea, and water.”

      1. Nobby Nobbs*

        I suspect a lot of people are defaulting to a “reject the first offer, accept the second” politeness script that OP wouldn’t even notice if they were the only “host,” in which case your suggestion would probably see a lot of takers.

    3. Mostly Managing*

      This is totally part of it.
      Back in the day I worked reception, and part of the role was offering tea to visitors (UK office – tea or nothing!).
      Most people would decline, especially if they were there for an interview.

      But when I changed my script, people starting saying yes.
      The new script was “Your interviewer will be here in a moment, and asked me to offer you a cup of tea. Would you like one?” Then the tea was officially sanctioned by the interviewer, and it was nearly always accepted.

      2. londonedit*

        Yes, I’m not surprised that worked. Certainly in many parts of the UK (the one I grew up in and the one I live and work in, at least) there’s definitely a ‘refuse the first offer, accept the second’ rule of polite interaction. You say ‘Oh, no thank you, I’m fine’ first, and then if someone says ‘Are you sure? We have tea, coffee, water…’ you then say ‘Oh, well if it’s not too much trouble?’. I reckon if the OP offered again after the first refusal, they might get more takers. Or if they said something like you do – ‘Steve asked me to check whether you’d like a tea or coffee – can I get you anything?’ – then definitely people would think oh, OK, the interviewer’s asking about whether I want a tea so it must be OK to have one.

        I think a lot of people just don’t want to introduce unknowns into the situation – if you accept a tea and you’re the only one in an interview drinking tea, will that be awkward? Will it look unprofessional sipping a mug of tea in a formal situation like an interview? What are you meant to do with the mug afterwards? What if you spill it while you’re carrying it to the interview room? I bet a lot of people just think it’s safer not to bother – and then you combine that with the fact that a lot of people will just have a knee-jerk ‘Oh, no thank you, I’m fine’ response (because you don’t want to put someone out or make them think you’re demanding) and there are a whole host of reasons why someone might decline.

        But then when the interviewer comes out and asks, that’s the ‘second offer’ coming into play, and people are more likely to accept. If the interviewer is already holding their own mug of tea, that makes it even more likely.

        1. bamcheeks*

          I literally still remember my then-boyfriend’s mother offering me cake in 1996 and then NOT ASKING IF I WAS SURE after I politely declined the first offer. I wanted that cake! Outrageous!

          2. MsM*

            See, I always accept dessert on the first offer. If the other person thinks it’s rude, oh well; at least I still have dessert.

            1. Sillysaurus*

              This is me, too. I’d never ask again if someone wanted cake and I’ll say “yes” if I want cake 100% of the time. I know it’s largely a cultural thing but it’s so weird to me that people wouldn’t just answer a simple yes/no question with the accurate yes/no answer!

          3. biobotb*

            It’s so funny how what’s considered “polite” and “impolite” can vary so much among cultures. I would have done exactly as your then-boyfriend’s mother, thinking it is more polite to assume someone knows their own mind and doesn’t want/need to be hounded into accepting food.

            1. Wayward Sun*

              Same. I might have offered a, “well, if you change your mind, let me know” before moving on.

            2. Niles 'the coyote' Crane*

              Absolutely. I find it really strange to have this unspoken rule that people don’t actually mean what they’re saying. Especially if they’re saying yes or no to food or drink.

          4. But what to call me?*

            This example is a helpful reminder for me to be slightly less annoyed at my grandma when she won’t believe me the first (or second, or sometimes fifth) time I decline some food she offers me.

            I’m trying so hard to train her not to do the repeated offering thing with me (we live together so this is a frequent problem). If I decline a large sugar-snack it’s usually because I’m trying really hard not to eat a large sugar-snack! My self-control is limited, so if someone keeps offering me the large sugar-snack I’m probably eventually going to say yes and eat it, but that in no way means I actually secretly wanted it all along. If I want something I’ll say yes the first time (probably seeming quite rude to people from cultures where it’s polite to decline first).

        2. Falling Diphthong*

          It’s interesting that we have evolved one, two, and three offers as correct for different social groups. Yet agree that expecting four offers is too many.

          1. Silver Robin*

            I generally do a single offer at the beginning, let it sit, and then come back again with another offer after a significant enough pause. The threshold is something along the lines of: 1) food/more substantive food is being served; 2) a few other folks have gotten something, thus demonstrating that the offer is sincere; 3) I notice them looking around/at other people’s comestibles; 4) a pause in conversation when I am getting up to refresh my own.

            But those are all when I am hosting in my own home. I have yet to be the one offering refreshments to visitors at work. No idea how I would handle it there. Probably one offer at the beginning, and then pointing out where they could serve themselves in our kitchen area (very open and very accessible to visitors).

    4. Colette*

      I often don’t really want a beverage, but eventually I decide that if I have one in front of me, people will stop asking.

    5. bamcheeks*

      I think there’s something really different about accepting a drink from someone in reception who will not be having a drink themselves and accepting one from the host, who may be having one themself. “We are two people drinking coffee together and meeting” is a very different vibe from “it is this person’’a job to make me coffee”.

      1. Annie2*

        Absolutely this – one feels like having coffee with someone, one feels like ordering a coffee from someone.

    7. Ann O'Nemity*

      I am guilty of declining the first offer of a beverage and then accepting later. In my case, the first decline is an autopilot response. “Can I get you anything?” “No, thank you, I’m good.” I’ve just arrived, I’m maybe a little flustered, I’m not really thinking.

      Then I sit there awhile and realize I am thirsty. But it seems weird to go back and be like, “Hey, can I get that water after all?” But I will accept if offered again!

      As I type this, I realize it may seem a little odd but thought you all might appreciate one person’s thought process on it.

      1. londonedit*

        Definitely not odd – it’s one of those where I’ve realised I have a lot of opinions about accepting drinks in various situations!

      2. Sillysaurus*

        I change my mind all the time! And then I just say “actually, turns out I do want water after all” and I’ve never had anyone seem upset or act like it was weird at all. Thirst is a condition that can develop over time, this is just part of being a human, it’s not weird!

  6. Seeking Second Childhood*

    It’s ironic that OP3 ‘s update about Fist-bump Fergus was from December 2019, so soon before fist bumps became A Thing during the pandemic.

    OP3, if you see this, how did you do with fist bumps when the reason was different?

    1. Antilles*

      Not OP3, but to me the issue isn’t really about the act of the fist bumping, it’s weird because of the frequency. Fist-bumps instead of handshakes? Fairly common now, I wouldn’t think twice about it. But “at least a couple times of day, with no rhyme or reason” would be equally weird if your co-worker was insisting on old-school handshakes as it is for a fist bump/high-five.

  8. o_gal*

    #4 is all too common in the tech sector, and unfortunately it often means that you have to get away from that team. That type of person is very unlikely to change (although there are a few rare examples where the person hogging all the good stuff can be persuaded to give up a little bit.)

    1. Sandi*

      Yes, I’ve seen it before where I was friends with a group leader and she kept talking about how her group were all young and inexperienced and she was too busy to train them to do the more complicated work. I ended up talking with one of her employees, learned that he had been there for four years, and I told him to immediately start looking elsewhere because it was never going to get better. How could it get better when someone who had been on the team for four years was still considered inexperienced! He ended up moving to my team and has been doing really well ever since then. I still like the group leader socially, but she’s going to complain about being overworked and how she can’t trust her inexperienced team until the day after she retires. The best thing to happen is for her to have young people join her team, have them learn a lot of basics in the first couple years, then have them transfer out to other teams who will give them the experience.

    2. Ama*

      Yes I bet this is someone who hasn’t been able to let go of doing day to day work as they moved into management. I’ve only seen that type of person improve if they realize on their own they have to change (this actually happened to me as a first time manager — I was overwhelmed with work but having trouble delegating to my new report and some timely letters to Alison helped me realize I was doing neither of us any favors) or if the employer gets that person management training and actually coaches them on how to transition their thinking into more of a management position.

  9. FashionablyEvil*

    #2–I’d be looking at what prompted the letter writer to acquiesce in the first place. Those services are hundreds of dollars. That’s a MASSIVE favor to ask of your fiancée, especially on an on-going basis!

    1. Heidi*

      I thought the subtext was that the fiance would be fired (or there would be some sort of retaliation, jobwise) if the OP didn’t do the boss’s hair. This whole situation is bananas.

      1. Observer*

        Not just a sub-text. The boss was known to be vindictive and unreasonable. And the LW seems to believe that the boss has an extremely high level of power in the industry as a whole.

    2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      I could see both of them worried about the boss retaliating. She’s a hair stylist so her income probably fluctuates while his is steady. They need that regular paycheck.

      When you have a boss like that, sometimes you go along just to protect yourself. Look what boss demanded for free and didn’t see a problem with it. Fiance even told her no but she wouldn’t stop. At that point you realize that unless you have another job lined up, keeping your head down is your best bet.

      1. HonorBox*

        And when she insisted to begin with, it is very unlikely that boss told the fiance she expected the service for free. Then once the horse is out of the barn, that conversation between the fiance and his boss is even more fraught.

        No matter who brings it up (and I hope it was the LW) there is a good chance the boss makes the fiance’s life miserable.

  10. Angson*

    #4–I would not want to walk with a beverage because I do not trust myself to not spill. But I would say yes once sitting down.

    1. Account*

      Same here. If I was sitting in the lobby and someone offered me a drink, I would decline, because I’d be thinking “What if they come out to get me after I’ve only had one sip? Do I leave the cup out here or what?” Sitting down for the interview, it would feel more natural to accept.

      Also, when the boss says “Did anyone offer you coffee?” and you hear them say No— I would just chalk that up to nervousness and not being able to formulate a more accurate response. The interviewee is thinking “I hope this goes well, I’m so nervous.. what? Coffee?” and then they blurt out “yes” or “no” at random.

      1. londonedit*

        I think also it’s one of those where ‘Did anyone offer you a coffee’ isn’t quite the question you were expecting, so that plus nerves can definitely make your brain trip up. You’re expecting, if anything, ‘Would you like a coffee?’ or ‘Can I offer you a coffee?’, maybe even ‘Have you had a coffee?’, and then that isn’t the question, it’s ‘Did anyone offer you a coffee?’ Your brain’s halfway through answering the ‘coffee’ question before it catches up and goes ‘Ah…no…oh never mind’. Also I don’t know about anyone else but in that sort of situation I tend to do a sort of ‘Oh, hello, yes, lovely to meet you, oh, no, no coffee thank you, oh yes I will have a water…’ slightly awkward thing, which could easily be interpreted as ‘No, I wasn’t offered coffee’.

    2. Blarg*

      See, this should be the advice for OP 3. Oops, sorry I spilled this hair dye all over you, your bag, your clothes before I even put the drape on you!

  11. SunnyShine*

    #5 – I had a boss that did that. Then she started to get upset when I did extra tasks for another department when they paid me overtime to do it. She started to pile up paperwork on our group. I went a found a way better job doing a similar job, with a lot less busy work, and a lot more pay.

  12. Never The Twain*

    For #3, please reassure me that I’m not the only one who immediately pictured The Todd?
    Now I have to go and binge-watch Scrubs (again).

    1. Festively Dressed Earl*

      I envisioned LW 3 going straight to the Baymax “ba-la-la-la” gesture from Big Hero 6 without actually bumping fists.

  13. CherryBlossom*

    #4 – I used to work as a receptionist, and the only reason people declining coffee from me but accepting from their host would bug me is that I would get grief about it from my superiors. I’d always offer, but if enough people said “I haven’t been offered, but I’d love a coffee!”…well, it’s hard to constantly argue against such a minor “he said, she said” over and over again.

    As long as your manager is aware, and believes you even when people lie/forget that you offered, you’ve done all you can do.

    1. Nightengale*

      This reminds me of a really common pattern in medical training

      Where the medical student asks the patient something – about pain or a specific medical history or taking medication and the answer is no. And then the supervising doctor goes in and the answer is yes.

      Sometimes it’s because the supervising doctor with more experience asks differently or the patient has a longer standing relationship. But often the patient has never met the doctor before and the doctor asks in exactly the same way and it comes down to – people are gonna people in sometimes strange and contradictory ways. Fortunately most senior doctors are familiar with this and don’t chew out the medical student for reporting the patient said no.

      1. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

        Ooof. Is this why doctors never believe patients? I’ve seen the notes from multiple doctors and it’s all “patient denied this” and “patient denied that”. I didn’t deny anything! I truthfully stated that I’m not experiencing a particular symptom!

        1. JB (not in Houston)*

          I think they “denied” language is just how they phrase it when you say you aren’t experiencing it?

          Kind of how radiologists describe things as “unremarkable.” It’s what you want to see on your scan, but it’s still disconcerting to have someone describe your brain (or whatever) as “unremarkable.”

          1. Sillysaurus*

            This is correct. If you look up “deny,” in a dictionary, there’s a separate medical definition that means “to report or note the absence of (a symptom).”

            1. Observer*

              The thing is that technically you are correct. But I think that fundamentally @Nightengale is correct that it’s an artifact of how doctors look at their patients. Unfortunately, it’s not completely “historical” either.

              A few years ago I saw a report on a *fascinating* – in a horrible “can’t look away from the fire” kind of way – research project. Basically, the researcher was looking to see how often people lie about their health on questionnaires and in studies. So they looked at a study of self reported diet and weight that had “unexpected” findings. When they tweaked the responses to what they “should” have been, the results turned out to be just what everyone expected. And thus they “proved” that a significant number of people had lied on their survey for the health study.

              Basically, the idea was that people lying was the *only* reasonable explanation of unexpected study results. Of course, there are a LOT of problems with the whole thing, but this assumption speaks to an incredible attitude, because not only did this study happen, but it was reported with a straight face, and no one at any point spoke and said “This is nuts.”

              1. Nightengale*

                oh it’s not at all historical. I see notes written saying “admit/deny” every day. Also notes referring to patients as “the patient” rather than using names or pronouns.

                I was chronically ill and disabled before I went to medical school, which posed a lot of problems but was a pretty effective antidote to absorbing a lot of the ingrained isms.

        2. Silver Robin*

          I think that is a quirk of medical reporting jargon; they use “refuse” for medication too and there was an article about how these standards make patients seem a lot more recalcitrant/aggressive than they are. With the medication example, they spoke about how a patient in a hospital might prefer taking one of their regular medications in the evening but the hospital scheduling dispenses it in the morning. Patient says “no, I want this in the evening” and the notes say “patient refuses medication”. Did they? Technically, but there is more to it. The article was arguing for introducing softer language like “declined” or being more detailed about what is actually happening.

        3. Nightengale*

          no I think doctors never believe patients because of decades of tradition of paternalism and ableism and all the other isms.

          I refuse to use “admit” and “deny” in my patient notes. I am not accusing my patients of anything. Rarely I do find a need to point out something like “[name] states she is taking her medication regularly although the blood test shows undetectable levels.”

        4. Wayward Sun*

          I’ve always wondered if they believe me when they ask about how much alcohol I drink. I’m legitimately a very light drinker (maybe two or three a week) and am honest about it, but I heard somewhere that everyone lies about this so doctors mentally multiply the answer by three. This made me wonder if I should be lying downward to compensate.

      2. Emmy Noether*

        That is interesting. I bet a lot of the time it’s that people just reflexively say no because their mind draws a blank. And then while they wait, they mull it over, and think of something.

        I also bet that people say they haven’t been offered because “I have been offered, I declined then, but I’d like one now, please” is a mouthful. “No” is easier, especially when one is nervous.

        1. londonedit*

          Yeah, it doesn’t seem worth getting into a whole ‘Yes, the receptionist did offer, and I said no at the time, but now I’d quite like a coffee actually’ thing. I expect people are just saying ‘Oh, no – but I will have one if it’s not too much trouble’.

          Or maybe they’re not saying that at all – I notice in the letter that the OP is just worried about it looking like they haven’t offered, or worried the boss will think they’re never asking the question if everyone’s suddenly all ‘Oh yes, thank you, I’d love a coffee!’ when the interviewer asks. Which I can understand. But I don’t think the OP could do any more than saying – as it sounds like they have – ‘Hey, just wanted you to know that I definitely do offer people a drink when they arrive. There’s an odd thing I’ve noticed where people will say no thanks when I ask, but then say yes when you ask, and I didn’t want you to think I just haven’t been asking’. But then leave it be and chalk it up to people being people.

  14. Seashell*

    I can’t see judging someone that hard about not throwing out a disposable cup. They’re nervous about the interview and, unless there’s an obvious wastebasket right next to them, it then becomes an awkward chore to either look for the garbage or ask about where the garbage is. If the answer to where the garbage is “three doors down, take a left, take a right, walk 30 feet, and then it’s in front of you”, I’m going to be wishing I just left the stupid cup rather than getting lost in the office.

    1. Dahlia*

      Also, what if it’s not empty? I don’t want to make a mess of spilled coffee for someone to clean up later – that’s a lot worse than dumping the cup into a sink and then tossing it. But it would also be super weird to walk into a random kitchen to find a sink when you’re interviewing.

    1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      No but HR exists to protect the company. Director’s lying because he doesn’t want to manage are harmful to the company.

      1. HonorBox*

        Correct. That he’s lying so he (my take) doesn’t have to have a hard conversation makes me wonder what else he’s lying about too.

    2. Sneaky Squirrel*

      I never understand the “HR is not your friend” mindset. Of course they’re not. They’re literally being paid by the company to act on behalf of the company just as any other employee is being paid to make decisions on behalf of the company. But HR does have an interest in protecting employees from lying managers and other bad company practices because the consequences could be damaging to a company (employee turnover costs, lawbreaking violations, etc).

      1. Cafe au Lait*

        It’s not that HR is about friendship, or being “for” the company. HR exists to provide lawfully ethical solutions within a company. Most often they’re looked at as the moral compass of a company, and are seen as failures when they don’t act that way.

        It’s a hard distinction to get around, especially here in the US. We USians like to legislate our morality. (Hello puritanical influences!)

        The issue with Letter #1 is the boss lied, a moral issue. The boss can be a lying liar who lies, but as long as he’s not holding the OP back from career opportunities (the ethical issue) then there’s not much HR can do.

        The trick is to get HR to think about it as an ethical issue, which can then be lawfully addressed.

  16. HonorBox*

    Regarding the hair cutting, I can see that the fiance deserves some side eye, but more limited. I’m sure with the boss continuing to press the issue, he probably conceded to keep the peace, also not realizing what the boss really wanted to have done.

    The boss is an a-hole. I can see that MAYBE if an employee’s or coworker’s significant other is a service provider, you ask them for a small favor… a quick trim of some wild neck hairs, squeezing you in for a quick hem of pants, etc. But at that point the favor is over. The favor was working you into the schedule. Not expecting something for free. And never continuing to expect something for free. Especially because the boss knows good and well how much she’s asking for.

    While it isn’t an easy conversation, I also don’t think it is THAT hard to say, “Ma’am, going forward, I need to charge you for your appointments. My time is valuable, and I’m not able to give free services any longer.” Any tap dancing about the schedule being booked up puts the fiance back in the line of fire because God forbid he mention to anyone else that LW has a slow week. If the boss overhears, it isn’t going to go well.

  17. pomme de terre*

    That hair story is bananas. Who was this boss? Was she, like, a local celebrity or an influencer who is trying to do the whole “it’s good exposure, you’ll make money off this freebee” thing? Or just a jerk? Either is bad but at least the first option has some economic basis as to why a hairdresser should give you hours worth of skilled labor for free, plus products and the chair rent. Wow.

    2. Wayward Sun*

      She is, if the OP is to be believed, influential enough that she could prevent the fiancee from every working in his field in that town again.

  18. Sneaky Squirrel*

    #4 – I once went to a job interview for a company that manufactured beverages (not coke or pepsi but think along those lines). I KNEW in advance that I was expected to accept the drink because I was warned that was part of the test, and yet my brain flubbed up and still said “no” the first time around. I just wasn’t thirsty at the moment and was trying to be polite and not inconvenience the person asking. At the second time they asked, I took one so that they would stop asking.

    I didn’t get the job. I don’t think I would have enjoyed the culture so I look back at that now and am relieved but at the time I was new to a career and really needed a job so I was so frustrated in myself for not accepting a beverage.

  19. CubeFarmer*

    I would love an update on the hairstylist’s letter. That is a massive abuse of authority on behalf of that boss. I like Alison’s advice about the LW handling it with script provided. But also, does that company have decent HR? I would think any decent HR department would want to know about that situation.

    1. Wayward Sun*

      You can find more in the comments further up, but the upshot is there won’t be an update because commenters were extremely rude to LW and her fiancee.

  20. Despachito*

    Re the hairdresser: I can understand the situation – the boss threatened the fiancé, and he perceived the threats to be real. And the fiancée did not want him to lose his job and his perspective.

    No need to say the boss was disgusting, but it occurred to me as a temporary solution (while he would be frantically job searching) to pretend he has broken up with OP. The boss then would have no leverage to use against him. How could he possibly persuade his ex to do his boss’s hair again for free? But he should absolutely not have to do this, I see it as a desperate way out under duress.

  21. Filicophyta*

    “Or they might be thinking it would be weird to walk into the interview with coffee, but then when the interviewer themselves offers, they decide it’s fine.”

    Yes, so much this.

  22. NoSoup4U*

    #4: Be careful that this guy isn’t in charge and incredibly toxic. At OldToxicJob, I told my manager how I would like to learn and grow and gain X Y and Z skills, and they specifically barred me from any projects remotely linked to any of it.

  23. Niles 'the coyote' Crane*

    I’d almost certainly say no to a coffee while waiting because I’m clumsy at the best of times. Clumsy + nervous + walking into a room holding a cup of coffee + smart meeting clothes isn’t worth avoiding.

    But a coffee in a meeting, offered by the other person in the meeting, feels safer.

    I could imagine saying “no” when asked if I was offered one, because “yes I was but I changed my mind now” feels a bit odd and complicated to explain. I wouldn’t plan to say that, in case it got the receptionist in trouble, and in general I don’t intentionally lie, but I can see a situation where I might say it on the spot.

Comments are closed.