employee might give me drugs for Christmas, the office couple decided to swap jobs, and more

by Alison Green on December 23, 2024

I’m on vacation. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives.

1. My employee might give me drugs for Christmas

I’m a manager of a the warehouse team at our company and earlier today a member of the sales team who reports to me and who I have a good rapport with asked me if I smoke pot. It’s legal here and I admitted that I have in the past, and the sales rep immediately said, “Great, I wasn’t sure what to get you for Christmas.” If this employee gives me pot, should I accept or is there a polite way to decline this offer? I don’t smoke anymore but I don’t want to appear ungrateful and I certainly don’t want to ask for a different present.

If you’re in the U.S., marijuana is still illegal under federal law, even if it’s legal in your state … and you shouldn’t accept gifts from employees that either or both of you could go to jail for. That’s not about being ungrateful — it’s about the fact that as a manager you can’t condone or appear to condone breaking the law at work.

Hopefully your employee has better judgment than to really give you Christmas weed, but if they do, you can reply, “I can’t accept this and really need to pretend it didn’t happen.” And if they’re bringing it on to company property, that’s a whole additional issue — enough of one that you might be wise to head it off before then with something like, “I’m guessing that was a joke earlier — but if it wasn’t, definitely don’t give that to me or any coworkers here.”

– 2019

2. Sharing an office when people are fasting

I am the supervisor of a team of four (counting myself). I have been a member of this team for 10 years, while the other three have only been here one to four years. The four of us share a tiny office that’s really not meant for more than two people, so we are pretty much all up in each other’s personal space all day, but we’ve developed a pretty great working relationship.

All three of my teammates are Muslim and take their religion seriously. It is currently Ramadan, meaning they are all fasting from sunrise to sunset. I always try to be very respectful of this, and try not to eat or drink anything in our shared office, but as a regular water drinker, it’s difficult. I’ve gotten in the habit of going to the water cooler every so often and chugging a plastic cup of water because I feel as though I can’t keep my usual bottle of water on my desk during the day. I also always eat lunch at my desk, at the same time every day, and they all know this, but I feel like it’s unfair for me to do so when they are fasting, even though they’ve said it doesn’t bother them.

Everyone in our office suite uses a conference room to have lunch together at noon each day, and I cover the receptionist during this time. I always take lunch when she comes back at 12:30, but the conference rooms are in use then which is why I eat at my desk. The only other option would be to eat outside (which isn’t doable in bad weather) or to go the campus cafeteria, which results in my spending most of the half hour break just looking for a place to sit. I guess I’m just wondering am I going too far out of my way? I’m trying to be respectful of the fact that they can’t eat or drink anything during the day during this holy time, but at what point can I say it’s my office too and not feel guilty about having a cup of coffee and my peanut butter and jelly sandwich at my desk?

You are being really thoughtful and considerate here, but I think you’re probably taking it too far. I agree that if you can easily avoid eating in front of people who are fasting, that’s a kind thing to do, but I definitely don’t think you need to take it as far as not drinking anything at your own desk — and if they’re assuring you that food is fine too, it’s okay to take them at their word. It sounds like you’ve made it very clear to them that you want to be thoughtful and accommodating — which is lovely — and you have good relationships with each other, so I think you’re safe assuming that they mean it when they tell you it’s fine! I still would probably not spread out a whole buffet of exotic fruits and fancy cheeses and cakes across your desk, but it sounds fine to eat a PB&J in the same space as them.

– 2018

3. Our annual evaluations want to rate our “boldness”

I’ve worked for company for five years. Each year they change the annual evaluation procedure, usually adding questions about goals we never set or new objectives or values we’ve never discussed before. Here are some of the ways I’ve been asked to evaluate myself this year:

“You stand tall in the face of adversity, are willing to voice an opinion and are firm in upholding company values. Rate how you have achieved your accomplishments by being bold.”

The other questions ask me to rate how I achieved my accomplishments by being innovative, collaborative, ethical, and disciplined. While none of these are bad goals, how am I supposed to describe the same accomplishments over and over from these different goal posts?

But “bold”? What does this even mean?! I’ve asked our HR rep, who kinda shrugged and said just go with it. What sort of response are they expecting? How on earth is this supposed to determine my value to the company? Are these sort of inane questions worth anything to anyone?

Is “boldness” by chance one of your company’s professed core values? It’s not uncommon for companies to assess people on how they match up with the company’s values — but “bold” is one that really needs more definition and discussion. And if the values are all like the ones you named, I’d rather see broader instructions like “in discussing your achievements, feel free to highlight ways in which you’ve especially lived our values of XYZ.” And really, evaluations should be primarily focused on the extent to which you achieved you goals. If you were unethical, undisciplined, or too cautious in pursuing them, we’re going to talk about that, but there’s not a ton of pay-off in forcing everyone to write about how ethics or discipline or boldness helped them hit their targets. (And the fact that your HR person didn’t have a real answer for you is evidence of that.)

In any case, you don’t need to use different accomplishments for each of these questions. You can use the same accomplishments and talk about different aspects of them (for example, if you’re talking about project X, you can talk about the specific ways you collaborated on it in response to the question about collaboration, the discipline you brought to it in response to the question about discipline, and so forth). Don’t use a single accomplishment for everything, but it’s okay if your answers overlap.

– 2019

4. The “office couple” decided to swap jobs

My office has about 30 employees. We have five salaried staff and the rest of us are hourly without guaranteed hours. When I started a year ago, I noticed that a member of the admin/salaried staff and another employee were oddly close and always hovering around each other. I was not surprised when I found out they are a couple, living together, and had met through work. Six months ago, she got promoted to a salaried position. Previously, those two positions worked together occasionally, but not closely by any means. When she took over the position, the couple started working together even more closely and he was actively helping with her job responsibilities. From my viewpoint, she was struggling a bit with absorbing the responsibilities of her new position, but I can’t be certain of that.

Well, today at our staff meeting, this couple announced they would be switching positions. They both said they liked the other person’s position better and thought it would be best to switch. The positions are equal in seniority, but one is clearly easier/less stressful than the other. The head of our office had approved the switch.

Am I crazy to think this is not appropriate? Something about the whole thing just feels really off, especially if she had trouble keeping up with her original promoted position.

If they really just decided on their own to swap jobs, that is indeed bizarre and, yes, not appropriate. That’s not normally the kind of thing you get to just decide on your own!

But I suspect there’s a decent chance that their explanation was a face-saving one — and that in fact your coworker might have been demoted (particularly if you’re right that she was struggling with the job) and that her partner got moved into the position. “We both liked the other person’s job and decided to switch” might just be the spin they’re putting on it.

Or who knows, maybe not. Maybe they hatched this plan themselves and got it approved. If that’s the case, it’s possible that they were each such a perfect fit for the other person’s job that it this isn’t as weird as it sounds on the surface. But if not, and instead your office just okayed it on a whim, then that’s an awfully unrigorous way to make major management decisions.

– 2018

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{ 183 comments }

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  1. EatVsDrink*

    As someone who periodically fasts, drinking water is a different beast entirely than eating. I definitely would be comfortable drinking, especially water. I would be upset if I had to watch others eating in my office space while fasting. If these folks say they’re okay with it then I’d go ahead, but I find it odd and definitely be aware many others won’t be.

    1. Artemesia*

      Of course one should avoid eating in front of people on a religious fast BUT if there is literally no place else t sit and eat then lunch takes precedence over this courtesy. I think the OP should eat in the conference room or wherever if possible but needs to tell office mates ‘I hate to eat during Ramadan here in the office, but sometimes there is literally no place in the building I can sit and eat and I apologize for when that happens.’

      1. Anon for this*

        Member of a religious fasting group – while I can’t speak for everyone, I can say that you shouldn’t even feel the need to apologise. It’s eating lunch, that’s a normal part of human behavior. Like Alison said I’d avoid spreading out a massive banquet meal but beyond that, nah. In fact I’d feel bad if you felt you had to change your habits. My fasting practices shouldn’t be a test on anyone else!

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Yes. I think the water is fine; anything with food smells you should try to eat elsewhere if there’s an easy way to do that. Sounds like in this office setup there is not.

        One of my solid rules from reading here is that people’s willingness to be inconvenienced by you depends on how hard you are trying not to inconvenience them. OP’s office mates can see that the conference rooms are occupied and there is no break room.

        1. EatVsDrink*

          If there’s nowhere else to eat, there’s nowhere else to eat and they should eat. I know we are supposed to believe the posters, so I’ll believe this is the rare case where that’s true. In many cases it’s not – it’s habit or preference.

          I was trying to make the distinction between feelings about food vs water as the OP was refraining from both and seems more bothered by the water. Starting by drinking but not eating may be a good option for them.

          1. Bast*

            I don’t think that working in an office space where there is no designated/habitable lunch area is as unique as you may believe. I realize this is just personal experience, but I’ve worked in more than one place where there were no real comfortable, realistic lunch areas apart from walking to your car (and in one of those places, we parked in an offsite parking garage. so walking would have taken 10-15 minutes of your 30 minutes lunch) or your desk. Both were larger companies, and both had inadequate spaces for the number of employees in the company — think 6 or 8 chairs around one small table for a company of 100 ish people. Sure, there was a “lunch room” but it was entirely possible you weren’t going to get a seat there unless you ate lunch either incredibly early or incredibly late, or got lucky and entered right as someone else left. It was always packed between 11:30 and 2:30.

            1. Rainy*

              Yup–I don’t think I’ve ever worked anywhere where there was an actual lunchroom. When I was a kid I used to go to work with my dad sometimes and he always worked in buildings with at least one and usually several lunchrooms with fridge, sink, tables, chairs etc but he worked for the state and I expect the state employee union had something to do with that.

              At my last workplace, the “kitchenettes” in each suite were just a counter with enough outlets for a microwave and toaster next to a fridge, and while there was a more kitchen-y kitchenette on each floor with a sink and dishwasher, they didn’t have seating, so they were just a place to keep/heat your food up.

              Most suites had a wide spot with some conference tables in one of the hallways of the suite and people would often eat lunch together there, but if the weather was bad that or your own office were really the only places to eat. It’s higher ed, so there’s no “lunchroom” space for staff that isn’t actually a cafeteria and you have to buy a meal pass to sit in one of the cafeterias.

            2. Ace in the Hole*

              Yes, my current job is the first place I’ve ever worked that had a viable place to eat away from other people.

              My last workplace technically had a “break room,” but it was just a tiny alcove on a hallway right across from the open office space. You could go outside, but that would require standing around (no table) with no shelter surrounded by loud noises and awful odors.

              Before that I was at several places that didn’t have a break room at all, and one that just had a lunch table in the middle of the work area.

            3. Lucifer*

              Yeah working somewhere that actually doesn’t have a dedicated break room is pretty easy to believe.

              I’ve worked places (including large orgs) where, if it weren’t for my own actual office, I didn’t have a dedicated place to eat (or wash out dishes like Tupperware besides the bathroom).

    2. HiddenT*

      Are you also a Muslim who fasts during Ramadan? I ask because my understanding (as someone who isn’t Muslim) is that it’s not the same as fasting for dietary reasons.

    3. allathian*

      Mmm yeah. I prefer not eating lunch at my desk if there are other options, but there’s absolutely no way I’d not continue drinking water at my desk. I need to eat something every three to four hours for medical reasons, so I’m not fasting, and I’d honestly find it an imposition to change my ways to accommodate those who do. I wouldn’t be obnoxious about it or ask the questions people who fast get all the time (how can you work all day without eating or drinking?) but I also wouldn’t change anything about how I do things to support those who are fasting. Especially not in the LW’s place, given that they’ve said they don’t mind the water.

      A new coworker has severe allergies and never eats anything cooked by anyone else, so she doesn’t eat at work. When she told me, all I said was “oh, okay” and that was that. She told me when I invited her to lunch.

      1. Elsa*

        I think that not asking obnoxious questions but also not changing your eating habits is the right approach. I’m not Muslim but my religion also has fasts, so I sometimes observe religious fasts at work, and that is definitely what I want from coworkers. Those who feel bad eating in front of religious faster should consider two things:
        1. We see people eating while we are fasting all the time. If we are parents of small children, we prepare and serve food to them while fasting. If we say we don’t mind seeing you eat, please believe us.
        2. The main thing we want as religious people in the workplace is to be seen as normal people. The last thing we want is people tiptoeing around us and making us feel like our very existence in the office is placing limitations on them.

        1. Despachito*

          I like this answer.

          I think whatever we are eating (or not eating) is not other people’s business, either way.

          So my coworker’s absolutely don’t get to ask obnoxious questions about my food or police what I am eating but the same holds the other way round and they do not need to adjust their eating habits because of my choices.

        2. English Rose*

          “The main thing we want as religious people in the workplace is to be seen as normal people. The last thing we want is people tiptoeing around us and making us feel like our very existence in the office is placing limitations on them.”
          This! My Muslim friends and colleagues all say that while they are thankful people are considerate, it’s actually more distracting when others are obviously avoiding normal behaviour and interactions.

        3. NotAManager*

          Seconding this as someone who also comes from a religion that practices fasting – there’s no expectation that anyone would/should be solidarity fasting or hiding that they’re eating and drinking. Part of our observance (in my particular faith) is not to make a big deal about it because it kind of defeats the purpose of sacrifice if you’re making a big deal about the fact that you’re sacrificing. I would *genuinely* feel uncomfortable if someone resorted to chugging water in a dark room or feeling guilty for eating a sandwich because they’re worried about offending me/tempting me. Fasting is about me and my relationship to my religion, not about anyone else.

    4. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      if fasting is part of someone’s religious observance, fine, but i’m sure they’re aware that other people around them might not follow the same practices. people need their meals/nutrition and shouldn’t feel bad or guilty about having them. this is a workplace, not a house of worship.

      1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        “this is a workplace, not a house of worship.”

        Do you say that about all the Xmas decorations all over the place right now?

        1. ASD always*

          Do churches decorate for Christmas? I’ve never seen any outside, but I can’t remember the last time I went inside a church anywhere near a christian holiday.

          1. Jackalope*

            The churches I’ve seen on the inside this time of year have all done some sort of decorations for Christmas.

          2. WillowSunstar*

            Yes, the ones I’ve had to go to with my parents and grew up in have always had decorations up for Christmas.

          3. Astor*

            I wanted to clarify that it doesn’t matter in this context. Most of us who fast, most of the time that we fast, aren’t doing it inside a house of worship.

            It sounds like you’re asking that question genuinely, but to those of us who are regularly told that Christmas is secular but any identifiable part of our culture is religious, the discussion about church vs Christmas is often a gotcha about how we should embrace Christmas.

            1. ASD always*

              The question honestly wasn’t meant as a gotcha, or even as related to the above-nested discussion, just a side curiosity. Obviously I’m not christian either, given the almost-never setting foot in a church.

          4. TeaCoziesRUs*

            Catholic here. Up until today the church was decorated for Advent, which is the season of preparation prior to Christmas. Now the purple and pink come down, the white comes out, and the poinsettias, tree, and other Christmas decorations appear. :)

          1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

            I wasn’t suggesting anyone not eat, but the dismissiveness and hypocrisy of “this is a workplace” comment when it’s a minority religion vs Christianity.

            1. Spencer Hastings*

              I’ve never seen anyone express uncertainty about whether they should eat meat in front of Catholics during Lent, for instance. Probably because that seems completely insane.

              1. Mid*

                Restricting one food group seems rather different than fully fasting, does it not?

                And, I think people do often engage in similar solidarity with their friends/family—for example when one of my friends stopped drinking alcohol, I also abstained at events she was at, because it made her feel less self-conscious of her newly sober status. I was also veg for many, many years, and had friends choose to prepare fully veg meals when we ate together, even though I never asked or expected that. I don’t cook a food that my partner is mildly allergic to (in that consuming it directly causes minor issues, but it’s in no way a major allergy to the point where cross contamination is even an issue, though I also know how to properly keep my kitchen safe from cross contamination, and do so), because it’s just easier/kinder to not have that food around so I don’t have to worry about them accidentally consuming it. Plenty of people make similar changes to support people around them, even if they aren’t strictly necessary.

                I think it’s a kind sentiment to not want to eat in front of people who can’t eat, but it’s also unnecessary. I think it’s a kind compromise to not eat a super fragrant 5 course meal at your desk, but since they’ve said they don’t mind OP eating, take them at their word! It’s okay! People with different diets don’t (usually) expect the world to cater to them, and your coworkers know you don’t fast and need to eat.

                1. Spencer Hastings*

                  Okay, but RC Llama was suggesting that people are only saying it’s morally permissible for LW to eat in front of her colleagues because they’re biased against a minority religion. Implying that if it were a Christian practice, they would never say that. But trying to think of the closest actual Christian practice, basically the opposite is true.

        3. Observer*

          Do you say that about all the Xmas decorations all over the place right now?

          Don’t you think that there is a difference between eating – which is a necessity for all people and ~~explicitly~~ a deprivation* for those who follow these religious dictates, and decorations which are not a necessity either religiously or practically?

          The idea that I should expect people to avoid necessary activities to accommodate my comfort level around my spiritual practice is not one that I find reasonable.

          *Note, this is not a slam at the practice – Judaism also has fasts so I actually do understand a religious practice that essentially says “The spiritual benefits of this outweigh the small physical deprivation (assuming someone is in reasonable health)”.

    5. Despachito*

      If anyone fasts for whatever reason, it is THEIR problem to deal with seeing other people eat. No one should be forced to not eat in front of them or even feel guilty for that.

      It is definitely very considerate from the OP to want to spare their coworkers’ feelings as much as possible, bur the coworkers are reacting in the only possible reasonable way. It is OK to be internally upset because my coworker has something I can’t have but it is up to me to deal with it, and I absolutely can’t make it the coworker’s problem.

    6. Rosey*

      I know plenty of Muslims and Baha’is who fast for religious reasons, and they are all very clear that it’s not at all offensive to eat and drink in front of them. Anyone who is bothered, and I’ve asked, has never voiced it. I’ve consistently been encouraged to continue eating as normal.

      I do try still to be courteous by not eating in front of them while they’re fasting if I can help it, but that’s on me, not a request by them.

    7. EatVsDrink*

      General reply to other commenters:

      It’s not asking them not to eat in the space designated for eating. It’s asking them not to eat in the space where I am required to be while not eating. If I ventured into a kitchen space or break room I’d expect people to be eating. If I’m in my enclosed office space trying to work, no.

      Coping with being forced to watch others eat while starving is a regular topic of conversation among others of my religion. There is pressure to conform and not make a fuss about it (exacerbated by the majority religion not including fasting days), and some folks feel they have no choice but to grin and bear it no matter how much it bothers them. I’m not saying that everyone feels that way, but a whole bunch of folks do. I know as I’ve gotten older and more experienced I’ve felt more able to ask people to stop and please go somewhere else to eat.

      Of course, it’s not nearly as common to have real offices these days and it’s an entirely different dynamic in an open office environment or cube farm. In either of those it’s more public space and less private office so there’s less standing and often less need to ask people to refrain from actions you’d expect to be able to avoid in an enclosed office.

      1. Jam today*

        I know as I’ve gotten older and more experienced I’ve felt more able to ask people to stop and please go somewhere else to eat.

        You really need to knock that off.

          2. Pescadero*

            I’ve never worked anywhere that had a place you were “supposed” to eat.

            Some places have a break room or something like that where you CAN eat if you choose… but it was never in any way expected.

        2. Despachito*

          I second this.

          I assume that if you fast for religious reasons you do so willingly, you know perfectly why you do it and therefore you are less likely to crave food.

          Eating by your desk per se is nothing outrageous that would make a request by the fasting person to go somewhere else reasonable.

        3. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          Wow, this whole thread has too many comments that wouldn’t be made if this was a practice of the majority religion.

          1. Jackalope*

            I’m not seeing what you’re talking about. There are people debating the best way to be respectful here, and people who fast for religious reasons chiming in (what religion we don’t know since no one has said, and fasting is common across several religions). The only thing that might be different if it were the majority religion is that presumably people might already have the answers.

          3. Who Plays Backgammon?*

            In recent years i’ve heard christianity referred to in scathing tones that I don’t think would fly in discussing other religions

            It’s also painful to hear Christmas called a secular holiday just so someone can sell more candy, wrapping paper, and stuff in general.

            as for someone feeling more free to eat somewhere else, i’m at an age where i’d feel equally comfortable to say no.

            1. Who Plays Backgammon?*

              apologies, mean to say “someone feeling more free to ask someone to eat somewhere else”

        4. Sunshine*

          I don’t fast for religion, and I think it’s very reasonable to ask people to eat in the designated lunch/ break room instead of near a fasting person’s work space, which is what this commenter seems to be describing. They don’t need to “knock that off.” The letter writer’s situation is different because there is no other place available to conveniently eat.

          1. Peanut Hamper*

            But if you are fasting, that is a choice that you are making. I shouldn’t have to change my behavior to accomodate your choice. As long as I am eating and not constantly offering you bits of my lunch or giving you other dietary advice, I should be free to eat at my desk if that’s where I normally prefer to eat.

            1. Czhorat*

              I really like tinned fish. I’d *prefer* to eat a tin of sardines at my desk, but when there are other people in the office the polite thing is to eat them elsewhere.

              Like another worker referenced some time ago here I play the ukulele; I’d love to practice at my desk during lunchtime but, again, co-workers.

              Everyone draws the line someplace different, but everyone DOES draw a line in not bothering their colleagues. In this case, I’d also like to gently note that labelling fasting as a component of religion as “their choice” is a bit reductive and doesn’t take into account the important spiritual and/or cultural aspects of said fast.

              It’s all a continuum; when I can accommodate without a major personal hardship I prefer to; how much hardship that is can be an individual choice.

              1. Pescadero*

                “I really like tinned fish. I’d *prefer* to eat a tin of sardines at my desk”

                If your office has no rule against it – enjoy.

                1. AMH*

                  Absolutely, you have the right to do so.

                  I think it’s more productive both for me personally and for humanity as a whole if we can be a little understanding and compassionate towards other people, even at a slight cost to ourselves – and hopefully receive the same grace when I need a little understanding and compassion myself.

                2. Spencer Hastings*

                  @AMH: the way I see it is that sometimes I will have an officemate who eats gross food in the office, sometimes I will have an officemate who has an annoying loud sneeze, and so on, and that’s just part of sharing space with other people. You don’t complain about me, I won’t complain about you. (Unless something is actually causing harm, of course.) I think that asking people to change what they eat in the office is likely to lead to a situation where everyone is constantly policing each other and every little thing has to be a negotiation.

                3. Lenora Rose*

                  Spencer Hastings: It’s interesting that you’re taking an example where Czhorat specifically talks about himself choosing to refrain from eating a food out of consideration for others and turning it into “asking people to change what they eat in the office”.

                  Yes, not complaining about the occasional annoying habit of your coworkers is part of sharing space… so is having the self-awareness to refrain from committing an annoying habit that you can easily save for leisure time.

                  And when the habit does hit a point where you can’t ignore it, the occasional polite negotiation or request is ALSO a part of sharing space, and such negotiations do not by any means have to turn into a universal, ongoing policing of everything.

                  Courtesy is easy, but it also takes multiple forms.

      2. Czhorat*

        I think this strikes somewhat of a balance; the bigger overall problem is the expectation/situation that everyone has to eat at their desk in a shared workspace. The only ones to blame about that are the corporate facilities team who set up an office without adequate break/meal spaces.

        If the fasting co-worker is OK with it then eating at your desk quietly and not calling attention is the least acceptable effort, but who wants to set the expectation of only doing the least? If OP wants to go an extra step in respecting the fast I think that’s a good thing; it’s how I would like to act.

        1. magic*

          This is such a misguided way to look at it. There are ways you can take concrete action to fight Islamophobia in society. Not eating your lunch at you desk because that’s not good enough(?) despite the explicitly expressed coworkers of the folks you’re trying to respect isn’t going above and beyond.

        2. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Until we had a break room, I had to eat at my desk–and my boss assumed I was still working and would give me stuff to do that had a strict deadline which involved working through lunch. Fortunately, not with that boss any more.

      3. I should really pick a name*

        I think there’s some miscommunication happening here.

        It sounds like you’re talking about asking people not to eat in your personal, enclosed office space, while other people are talking about people eating at their desks in a more open setting.

        1. UKDancer*

          Yes, I mean I’ve never worked anywhere with private offices except for senior management. I guess if you have your own private office then you can control who eats what there. Most of us are in an open plan office so you either eat at your desk or you eat in the staff room by the tea point.

          We’re discouraged from eating hot and smelly food at desks but a lot of people have their sandwiches there. I think if you tried to stop people eating at desks during Ramadan you’d have a massive queue for the staff room and some very unhappy people. It’s big enough to take everyone and some people prefer to eat at their desks.

          We’re asked to be sensitive but I don’t think in a majority non Muslim office, you could stop people eating in the workspace they occupy without annoying a lot of the staff.

      4. Learn ALL the things*

        Not every office has a designated eating space. At my office, the “kitchen” is a tiny alcove with a fridge, sink, and microwave. There is no place to sit. We eat at our desks because that’s the only seating available. If my cubicle neighbor was fasting, I’d try not to bring in food with noticeable smells, but I’d still be eating at my desk because there’s nowhere else for me to go.

      5. Observer*

        It’s not asking them not to eat in the space designated for eating. It’s asking them not to eat in the space where I am required to be while not eating.

        The thing is that the person eating is *also* required to be there. And the reality is that even when there is another place where they are “supposed to” be eating, it’s not necessary reasonable.

        Among the issues are “official” eating places that don’t have capacity or are designed in ways that make it hard for some people to eat there (eg at least one place where the “lunch” spot has high counter and bar stools rather than a normal table. No, I’m not eating there nor will most of my colleagues.) Also, there are lots of people who eat at their desks because they don’t actually take a proper lunch break – and that’s generally not because they *want* to not have a lunch break. Same for people who eat at their desks even though they are actually taking a lunch break because they are also using that time to get some other stuff done. Asking people to not do that for a month is beyond unreasonable.

        I get it – if I were sharing an office with someone who was fasting I would see if I can move somewhere else, but more often than not, it’s just not realistic, even if there was actually a space.

    8. Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate*

      Different religions have very different reasons for fasting. Sometimes it’s a purity thing, where how you feel about it not particularly relevant or you even want to do what you can to make it easier. In my religion, fasting (which sometimes means abstention from food and even water and sometimes means a limited range of foods) is a sort of “spiritual weightlifting” — it’s practice at mastering your passions in context where slipping up doesn’t really matter, so that you’re better at doing it when it DOES. Not drinking when you’re thirsty is good preparation for not snapping when you’re grumpy, etc. So for those who think about fasting in this way, it being hard is the point and being upset about others eating would be a strange response! I have no idea where Ramadan falls on this spectrum, but not everyone fasting for religious reasons thinks about it the same way.

      1. fallingleavesofnovember*

        This is what I would say too: my religious fasting, which is mostly not eating certain foods but occasional not eating at all (from some of your wording I suspect we may be talking about the same faith!) is supposed to be as invisible to others as possible. Being able to be gracious and cheerful even if your stomach is growling with hunger as someone eats something you can’t have in front of you is part of the point – not in the sense of torturing or punishing yourself, but to remind you of what is more important!

        The reasoning for other religions may be different but in this specific case, I think OP did the right thing by asking and should just believe their Muslim coworkers that it is OK.

    9. JMC*

      Sorry but just because someone is following a religion that forces them to do unhealthy things like not eat or drink water all day doesn’t mean YOU have to. You need to do what is comfortable for you, not them.

      1. Irish Teacher.*

        While I agree that those who aren’t part of a religion should not be expected to follow its traditions, I don’t think it’s always accurate to describe it as “following a religion that forces them to do unhealthy things.” A couple of my Muslim students were talking about Ramadan recently and while they told us that it was hard, they were quite enthusiastic about it and seemed to see it as part of…I’m not sure if a celebration is quite the right word, but certainly as something positive.

        There seems to be an assumption that religious people don’t really want to follow their religious traditions, but feel forced to. And I’m not saying that never happens. There are situation where say Christians are afraid to have sex outside marriage or get divorced because they fear punishment from God (using Christian examples as those are the ones I am most familiar with) but there are also people who follow all sorts of religious traditions not because they feel forced but because they want to show their devotion to God or because they take pleasure in following their culture’s traditions or because it makes them feel part of their community.

        1. EmF*

          Adding on to this, regarding it being unhealthy – I have a Muslim colleague who is religiously forbidden to fast during Ramadan because it would damage her health to do so. She makes a different sacrifice during Ramadan instead.

          1. UKDancer*

            Yes, I know at least one type 1 diabetic who doesn’t fast because it’s medically unhealthy for her to do so. She gives extra zakat (alms) to charity. There are several very sensible exceptions of this type for pregnancy and traveling.

          2. Turquoisecow*

            Yes, most religions that require fasting do not require it of people with medical issues – children, pregnant people, people with chronic health conditions for whom being hungry or dehydrated would be bad, like diabetes, or older people.

      2. Observer*

        Sorry but just because someone is following a religion that forces them to do unhealthy things like not eat or drink water all day

        That’s actually a rather inaccurate characterization of the matter. For people in otherwise reasonable health fasting is not actually that unhealthy (in moderation, of course!)

        Do what you believe is right. But it would *really* be a good thing if you educated yourself a bit before dumping on other people’s practices.

      3. NotAManager*

        That’s a bit harsh, LW’s colleagues have said they don’t mind if people eat and drink in front of them during Ramadan. It sounds to me like they’re totally comfortable with that.

        Most religious fasts have exceptions for people who have aspects of their health or lifestyle which would make fasting potentially detrimental to their health, Ramadan included.

    10. till Tuesday*

      Also, while you might be comfortable drinking water on a fast, definitely some people avoid drinking water during Ramadan.

    11. EStein*

      I fast for religious reasons and people eating in front of me doesn’t bother me at all. I know that’s n=1, but I’m glad nobody in my open-seating workplace changed their habits to accommodate me.

  2. linger*

    OP4 [spouse job swap] commented in the original thread (in which they were “OP1”) to give some further details:

    Thank you for the feedback! Honestly, based off the way it was presented and the mannerisms from the office head, I am fairly certain it was the couple’s idea. Both positions have a director title and salary, and it was not a demotion. I am still peeved by the situation, because I feel their relationship likely gave them a work advantage with this specific decision.
    However, for my sanity, I’m going to let that all go and assume this was a face-saving move (as you suggested). I had not considered that explanation before and you very well might be right.

    And in a separate comment:

    I found this bothersome [because the] position would be of interest to others in the office. The situation makes me worry about fairness in promotion opportunities. And again, these two positions never worked this close before and don’t need to, so their “unit” approach is awkward and sometimes makes it confusing for me to know who to report to.

    2. Czhorat*

      Those are really legitimate concerns. Even if the reality isn’t what is being portrayed the optics are absolutely terrible.

  3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

    OP4 (couple job swap) – I wonder if she is succeeding in the new role where she was struggling in the old one. OP mentions that the new role is “clearly” harder and more stressful although they are the same seniority… but really, hard and stressful are subjective to the individual person. I would find a role where I had to concentrate on detail and follow written procedures to the letter for 8 hours a day much harder than a role responding to unexpected incidents and emergencies. Someone else might be stressed out by that “unpredictable” factor.

    If they weren’t a couple (or had another close relationship like bffs) presumably they wouldn’t have discussed this, and her boss would have noticed (or she’d have brought up) that she was struggling, and perhaps this role swap would have been the outcome anyway? I do think there’s an element of the other person “covering” for her incompetence here, which (as the answer says) suggests decisions aren’t being made on an objective basis. Did he actually prefer that role or was it to ensure that the other half of the “unit” wouldn’t be fired?

    1. WellRed*

      But if she was struggling in the role to the point she needed to leave it, why not promote someone else from the team?

      1. MK*

        Generally speaking, employers don’t want to demote employees. And presumably there is a reason they promoted this woman instead of someone else from the team; it’s likely they still think she has potential, even if that particular role wasn’t the right fit for her, so moving her to a different but equal role was a good solution, given there was someone in the other role also willing to move.

        The only iffy thing here is the personal relationship between the job-swapping employees, or more accurately that they seem to have settled this among themselves. If Susan and her manager decided she wasn’t right for the role, and then management considered moving her to the other role a good solution and asked if anyone there wanted to move, that wouldn’t be odd at all.

        That being said, the company could have refused the job-swap proposal from the couple and promoted someone else. Ultimately it was the company’s decision, and I am not sure it’s justified to feel the couple had an unfair advantage.

  4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

    OP2 (lunch while others are fasting) – they’ve said it’s OK and that they are not upset by OP eating lunch at desks. In this situation (because there isn’t a suitable alternative arrangement) I would take it at face value and assume they are OK with it since they said so. If they aren’t – it’s on them to use their words. If they didn’t seem to be OK with it though, I’d be bringing this up with management or HR or maybe “facilities” if you have such a thing. e.g. can reception be covered by someone else, who’s able to eat at their desk after.

    1. Turquoisecow*

      In college, my sister’s roommate was Muslim and fasted for Ramadan. My sister felt awkward about snacking in their shared room during the month and tried to avoid it or do so quietly/secretively but her roommate told her that it would be fine if she did.

      I think there’s something of a disconnect here because we are used to certain Christian’s evangelizing and trying to get *everyone* to follow their traditions and commandments, so if an evangelical Christian of that type had to fast they would probably proclaim that all of us should be fasting, like how we all should pray or celebrate Christmas or whatnot, while there definitely are members of other religions who do that sort of thing, for the most part people do not require that people who do not believe as they do follow their traditions. So the non-Muslim person may feel awkward or like the Muslim person is looking down on them or shaming them for eating during Ramadan, but my experience has been that they are not offended by the existence of others not participating in their rituals or traditions, at least not in the same way that, for example, evangelical Christians may shame people for premarital sex or homosexuality even if those people are not themselves Christian.

      1. Ann Nonymous*

        Well said. As a Muslim living in a non-Muslim society, I know that we Muslims know that there will always be eating and drinking going on around them. Part of Ramadan is resisting temptation and we can almost turn our senses off as to smelling food and our desire for it…at least until sunset! It would be nice if the non-Muslim co-worker would refrain from eating fragrant foods in the office, but they are not going to be offended or judgmental about all eating and drinking. Maybe OP would be open to trying fasting for a couple of hours in the office just as a nice gesture, but that is in no way required!

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        > my experience has been that they are not offended by the existence of others not participating in their rituals or traditions

        I saw an example of this at my school, age about 16 or 17, which was majority Christian or “no religion” but we had a small group of Muslim students who were part of an international study program, they wore the head coverings and followed the other rules of Islam. One of my friends asked directly if they are “offended” when they saw all of us not wearing head coverings and doing other things like eating pork – she said no, as it’s their religion but not ours and they are observing those rules but they don’t expect other people to!

        1. Thinking*

          This is my problem with countries that expect visiting female dignitaries to wear hijab. It actually makes a mockery of the reason for hijab, which is devotion.

    2. Thinking*

      What confuses me is when the other 3 people get their break. Are they breaking at noon while the LW works? Then this situation could be avoided all together. Are they working through their break. Just no. They should have a break from work.

  5. Maz*

    #1: I know this is from a few years ago, but in that type of situation, talk to your colleagues. Explain that you’re trying to be respectful but you need to be able to eat and drink at your desk. They may not care, or they may have suggestions such as perhaps not eating something with a very strong smell. As someone who occasionally fasts for religious reasons (though I rarely share with others that I’m fasting — not Ramadan) I can honestly say that seeing others eating doesn’t bother me. It’s food scents that make me feel hungry. The OP doesn’t need to eat bland food, but perhaps they can avoid food with a scent that carries and/or lingers.

      1. Frosty*

        Perhaps but OP might want to take special care. I find that lunches always smell like something, especially if it is hot. OP could try to focus on cold foods that don’t make a lot of “noise” (cheese and crackers but not a bunch of crunchy celery for example)

        1. WillowSunstar*

          Yes, there’s always the kind of chicken salad with mayo or yogurt for dressing (or tofu salad if one doesn’t eat meat). You can also make a similar salad with garbanzo beans, it’s not bad.

  6. Who Plays Backgammon?*

    if fasting is part of someone’s religious observance, fine, but i’m sure they’re aware that people around them might not follow the same practices. people need their meals/nutrition and shouldn’t feel bad or guilty about having them. this is a workplace, not a house of worship.

    1. JMC*

      Exactly! It is a workplace and not everyone is going to follow stuff like that, and should not be forced to.

    2. Turquoisecow*

      Yes, exactly. If the person cannot handle seeing others not follow their belief system then maybe they should not be put in the secular world amongst people who do not follow their beliefs.

      1. Ann Nonymous*

        Wow. OP JUST SAID that the Muslim co-workers told him they didn’t mind if he ate or drank in the office. You seem to be under the impression that it was the opposite. Please stop trying to “other” Muslims and assume that they are extremists.

  7. Adam*

    I feel like #2 is overthinking it. I’ve worked with many Muslims and none of them were bothered by people eating and drinking around them, they understand that other people aren’t fasting. Don’t wave a sandwich in their face or schedule a team lunch during Ramadan, but feel free to eat and drink according to your normal routine.

    1. Numbersmouse*

      > I also always eat lunch at my desk, at the same time every day, and they all know this, but I feel like it’s unfair for me to do so when they are fasting, even though they’ve said it doesn’t bother them.

      Yeah, this is bordering on virtue-signalling, tbh. Your teammates’ own words should take precedence about your pre-formed ideas about how they should feel.

      1. Cordelia*

        yes! do them the courtesy of believing them. There’s no need for you to have to say “it’s my office too”, they clearly recognise this. There is no issue here other than the one you are creating yourself, maybe think about why you are doing this.

      2. Lexi Vipond*

        The whole thing just sounds a bit dismal, to be honest – there are plenty of people who just prefer not eating in front of people who aren’t, fasting or not. Plus it sounds like literally everyone else gets to go to a place that’s not their desk and have a proper half hour break, while the OP is stuck eating in a corner jammed in among people trying to work.

        1. Ann Nonymous*

          There is no indication that OP’s desk is “stuck in a corner” or that he’s “jammed in” among his co-workers. You’re making stuff up.

          1. Silver Robin*

            Four people in an office meant for two definitely strikes me as “jammed in”… LW literally says “we are pretty much all up in each other’s personal space all day”.

            They can definitely eat as needed given the limitations their job puts on them and they should take their coworker’s word for it that eating in their presence is fine and they should definitely let themselves drink water! If they want to be extra conscientious, they can take the suggestions for less obtrusive foods.

            But it is totally understandable to feel a bit more concerned about this kind of thing when everyone is in very close quarters. Eating in your solo cubicle is different than eating within a cramped office that you barely fit in.

      3. honeygrim*

        I wonder if part of the issue was that the LW was the supervisor, and was concerned that their team didn’t feel comfortable expressing their preference that the supervisor not eat in the office. I agree that the LW should take the words of their team at face value, but I can see why–as the supervisor–they might have been worried.

        1. Anonychick*

          I agree. And I wonder if perhaps comments on the original post resembling the ones here (from both Muslims and members of other minority faiths who also fast for religious reasons saying that they’re fine with people eating in front of them, but prefer it not be something too fragrant) might have helped LW feel more confident about taking his coworkers’ words at face value, and reassured him that drinking water all day and having a PB&J at his desk was completely acceptable.

      4. Czhorat*

        Virtue-signaling is a good thing; it’s giving an outward sign that you exhibit a positive attribute – in this case respect for another culture.

        honeygrim also made an excellent point that you can’t always trust the words of someone in the office – especially if you’re their supervisor. “No, eat what you want” could mean “eat what you want”, but it could also mean “I don’t want to be penalized because my boss is secretly irritated that I made them relocate their meal”.

        1. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

          Love this comment. The reason people with conservative values call it “virtue signaling” is they’re trying to silence people with liberal values, for the same reason that they ban books about tolerance and are trying to get rid of social emotional learning.

        2. Spencer Hastings*

          The crucial part of the phrase is “signaling” — i.e., when people attempt to *signal* that they have a particular characteristic while not actually having it.

          In this case, going “I’m even denying myself water, look how respectful I’m being!” while the colleagues are like “I myself am fasting, I don’t care if you eat or not, you do you”…seems not actually all that respectful on the LW’s part.

          1. Orange Line Avenger*

            Seconded. It seems like the LW is more committed to the idea they have in their head about what their coworkers need than they are to the things their coworkers have specifically told them. It’s not a mortal sin, it’s a tendency we all fall into sometimes (myself especially, I’m a terminal busybody).

            The only advice needed here is “believe what people say about their own needs.”

          2. Lenora Rose*

            This is assuming something they don’t say – that they’re talking about the absence of water at their desk, not just, y’know, getting up, going to the water cooler and chugging a glass. Which is only obvious if the Muslim coworker also goes by where the water cooler is. We hear about it because the letter writer had to tell us what they were doing. This doesn’t mean they’re waving a flag about it in person.

        3. I should really pick a name*

          Usually when I’ve heard the term “virtue signalling”, it’s been in reference to behaviour that is more focused on the visible aspects of allyship than the practical ones.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            Yeah, I always took “virtue signalling” to mean somebody centering themselves, like somebody who made a point of not eating or drinking and then played the martyr about it and gave the impression it was such a hardship for them to have Muslim coworkers because it meant they had to deny themselves because they were such a good ally. Or people who talk over the group themselves, like making a point of telling others off for eating in front of those who are fasting, even if those who are fasting say they don’t mind at all.

            I assumed Numbersmouse was referring to the comment about it being “my office too,” which sounsd a bit like the LW feels hard done by for something they have chosen themselves and the coworkers have said is unnecessary. Now, of course, it’s hard to read tone online and it’s likely the LW did not mean it that way and just meant, “but it is my office too, so is it OK for me to eat there?”

        4. magic*

          Sure, which is why it’s good that LW checked, and they should continue to make an effort to be respectful and culturally sensitive. But acting as though the coworkers weren’t telling the truth is not virtuous, nor does it signal all that much.

          Conspicuously performing allyship is not always a virtue.

        5. Lucifer*

          I’ve actually only ever heard of “virtue signaling” in liberal/progressive spaces as a call out against people who were too caught up in showing off how Enlightened they were, or What Good Allies They Were, etc, to actually like, notice that the people directly affected by something were trying to share their own stories/tell you what they needed/etc.

          For example: Speaking as a cishet female, I can think of many times when a Feminist Man wanted EVERYONE to know how feminist he was, damn it, even to the point of talking over the actual women in the room (and especially if what they wanted to say contradicted any of his points). I can only imagine the stories from POC or LGQTBA communities about virtue signaling by progressives. Or people in disability advocacy, etc.

        6. Limmy*

          In my experience (as someone who is extremely left wing and a member of three separate marginalised groups), the people and companies who virtue signal the most in public are usually the most dangerous towards minorities in private.

          Virtue signalling is all about exploiting minorities for self-serving reasons.

        7. Numbersmouse*

          Virtue-signalling is problematic in so far as it takes precedence over actual allyship. In this case, straight-up ignoring what your coworkers are telling you is not, in my view, respectful.

          It’s entirely possible that they weren’t truthful with their supervisor, but there’s no evidence of that. So the choice here is to ignore the evidence of their own words in favour of the LW’s unsubstantiated assumptions about what they want.

          I say this as someone from a muslim-majority country who still “reads” as muslim (although tbf I was not raised religious) in most of the US. It’s tiresome not to be believed.

      5. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        Ah, the Fox News talking point of accusing anyone who is trying to be considerate of other humans as “virtue signaling.”

        1. magic*

          I agree with you in 95% of situations that that is how virtue signalling is thrown around. But in this case, you all are ignoring the really important part of it: “Your teammates’ own words should take precedence about your pre-formed ideas about how they should feel.”

          1. Aquamarine*

            Agree because what happens is:
            1. Someone decides that to be considerate, they should avoid eating around people who are fasting.
            2. Other people see this and feel like they should do the same to avoid being inconsiderate, or at least labeled as such.
            3. People start to feel resentment toward the people fasting, when they never asked for any special consideration in the first place.

            I feel like we’re already seeing this in the LW’s response, “At what point can I say it’s my office too and not feel guilty.”
            The guilt was self-imposed and the officemates never expected LW to change what she was doing in the office in the first place. The most considerate thing LW can do is to trust her officemates when they say to go ahead and eat like normal.

        2. Numbersmouse*

          The problem isn’t that LW’s trying to be considerate, is that they’re ignoring their coworkers’ explicit words in favour of what they personally feel, and then writing in to ask for validation. Surely being considerate also includes taking your coworkers’ stated desires into consideration? Not sure how often that comes up on Fox News, though.

    2. UKDancer*

      Agreed. All the Muslims I’ve worked with who fast have made it clear (if asked) that the fast is something they undertake willingly and are accustomed to doing and it’s not necessary for other people to do anything different or refrain from eating. One colleague said the thing that made a fast worth doing for him was the fact it was challenging. Basically if it was easy it wouldn’t be as meaningful.

      Our guidance in the companies I’ve worked has mainly been to avoid scheduling work lunches and awaydays with food during Ramadan and to allow people to flex their hours and avoid scheduling them for travelling unless they choose to do the travel.

      I mean I’d probably avoid eating very strongly scented or hot food at my desk as a courtesy (which is a thing we’re discouraged from doing generally in my current company) but I tend to do that anyway. If i’m having more than sandwiches or salad I have it in the staff room.

      1. DontEat*

        FWIW, I’ve worked in several offices where we were told not to eat in front of Muslim colleagues during Ramadan.

        1. Peanut Hamper*

          Not told by whom, though? A non-Muslim supervisor or non-Muslim HR person?

          I feel that the person who is fasting is actually the expert on how they feel about other non-Muslim people eating and drinking around them.

      2. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

        I do intermittent fasting. Just for my own purposes. I don’t care who eats what in what proximity to me. Although the fact that for me, it’s entirely my choice probably does make some difference.

        This year, Yom Kippur happened to fall on one of my regular days. “No, just dieting. Yep, all day; no feast at sundown. Why? Well, I’m a post-menopausal woman. It’s either this, or eat brown rice and steamed vegetables seven days a week.”

        If I have a point, I guess it’s that no one took much notice of my fasting until three other people were doing the same.

    3. Observer*

      schedule a team lunch during Ramadan,

      I’m glad you called that out. I am sure that the LW of that letter would never do anything of the sort, but this kind of nonsense is WAY too common, even in large cities with large populations of whatever minority.

      Like, in NYC (which has large populations of *many* religious minorities), you would expect that lunches would not be scheduled during Ramadan, or required meetings in general would not be scheduled on the major Holy days of the more common religions. But it happens all. the. time.

      And I suspect that the LW’s coworkers are much more comfortable with their eating at their desk, because they know that the LW would always try to avoid that kind of thing, and would try to make sure that a team meal would have halal options. That makes a huge difference in how people feel about this stuff.

    4. Turquoisecow*

      Husband manages several Muslim employees and one of them asked that they not schedule meetings later in the afternoon for the first few days to week because he said by that point he was “hangry” from not eating and might not be at his best. By later in the month he was used to it, but the first few days were difficult as he got into the routine. But he didn’t expect the work to get lighter or for anyone else to not eat (it’s a remote job so unless he went to the office he would have that issue anyway.)

      I think that’s the sort of thing a boss or workplace can definitely try to accommodate.

  8. ASD always*

    I’m very curious how LW1’s weed-gift-at-work situation ended up going. They only commented once on the original post and no gifting had happened as yet.

      1. Bananapants*

        Right? My thought/hope was the employee was planning to give a pipe or a bong. Still a very weird choice, both because of the obvious legal/appropriateness issues and the fact that the OP apparently said they *have* partaken in the past, but they may not now.

      2. Not always right*

        I have no experience with weed, but it seems to me that the may be accessories for smoking? I don’t know, maybe wrappers or lighters? I mean that was my first thought anyway.

      3. Bella Ridley*

        What? Would you say “I’d be surprised if any drinker gave away wine?” Because where it’s legal you can head down to the dispensary any day of the week and grab yourself some more. It’s not like you have to wait in your car for your plug to show up and bring you more.

      4. Filicophyta*

        Not everyone who smokes weed or uses gummies is a “stoner”, just like not everyone who drinks alcohol is a drunk. And some communities share generously, just like you offer guests to your home a coffee or wine.
        And in some places, it is ok to gift it, if you know the recipient smokes. Obviously, only if you’re close, and sure it will be well received. Not at work though, Alison had a good reply.

      5. Lenora Rose*

        My husband (who has occasionally partaken for recreation and now also does occasionally for medical purpose) said he literally never bought weed until it was legal and he could go to a store. He still got handed joints, cookies, or small bags of weed by stoner friends, including to take home. Unlike the mythical “Give it away for Hallowe’en” nonsense*, stoners do occasionally offer to their buddies.

        * my city technically had a case in 2023! … But it was a woman who ran out the normal candy and grabbed packages from her partner’s pantry without her glasses on. There was no intent.

    2. JMC*

      Who in their right mind thinks giving drugs as a xmas gift is at all the correct thing to do??? That is just insanely stupid.

        1. Observer*

          Society treats different drugs differently.

          Indeed they do. To fail to recognize that and act accordingly is, as @JCM says, insanely stupid.

          Especially when you involve other people in your* behavior.

          *generic you, not @ISRPAN

          1. Lenora Rose*

            We don’t even know if they were in the US. In Canada, it would be entirely legal.

            I still think it wouldn’t be appropriate as a workplace gift for anyone, but I also default to not giving alcohol to people whose tastes I don’t know.

  9. Cats Ate My Croissant*

    The temptation to respond to the evaluation with “I’m demonstrating boldness by not answering any more of these ridiculously vague questions” would be strong.

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      Q: How have you demonstrated boldness at work?
      A: THIS! (only employee input on entire 3 page form)

    3. Desk Dragon*

      I once answered a similarly vague string of jargon masquerading as a self-evaluation question with “I have no idea what this is asking.” During the actual review discussion my manager just laughed and said that yes, that was a particularly bad one, explained how she interpreted it, and we discussed the actual topic. In management/HR’s defense, none of them like the mandatory review software and evaluation questions our parent company started imposing on us a few years ago, either.

    4. Elizabeth West*

      LOL!
      I don’t understand how I’m supposed to “live the values” other than doing my job as best I can and not being an asshole. Feels like “company values” should apply more to things the company does as a whole, like support diverse employees and not mess up the environment or work in totalitarian regimes.

  10. François Caron*

    OP1 – The Gift Of Weed: In Canada, even if marijuana is now legal, giving a colleague some weed could still get you into serious trouble with your employer if they have strict policies against being under the influence especially when operating any machinery.

    1. Lenora Rose*

      If someone gave a bottle of wine would you assume they were expected to partake at work? Most workplaces have a strict policy against being under the influence of alcohol, too.

      Again, I don’t think booze or weed are appropriate workplace gifts due to not knowing other peoples’ tastes or preferences or likelihood to partake, but “the employer would be worried someone would use it at work” doesn’t seem like the reason.

  11. Spoony*

    The thing that stood out to me about #1 is less the pot (which is certainly problematic) and more the fact that someone is planning on giving a Christmas gift to their manager? That seems not great on at least two levels: the manager presumably earns more than the report so the report shouldn’t be spending money on a gift for their boss (imo), and the manager is in charge of evaluating the report’s work, and you shouldn’t be accepting gifts from someone who you have that kind of power over for both your sakes (what if receiving gifts from one employee but not another influences who gets better assignments or promotions or laid off?).

    I think it’s fine if the whole team does a secret Santa or yankee swap that includes managers but I don’t really think independent gifts should flow upwards like that. If I were a manager and someone who reports to me announced they were planning on getting me a Christmas gift, I’d just say something like “oh my gosh, that’s so generous but please don’t bother”.

  12. Firefinch*

    I’ve lived in Muslim countries in Africa and been one of two non-Muslims in the office. Drinking water at your desk is totally fine. Eating at your desk is fine, especially since you have no other option. The rules aren’t as rigid as many people think; observant Muslims can skip fasting if they’re sick, pregnant, nursing, or if they are traveling, or for other reasons. They make up those days later. So if they’ve said it’s fine, believe them.

    If there is a way to allow them to go home an hour earlier since they are working through lunch, that would probably be appreciated. Half Fridays to attend mosque would also be appreciated, if you aren’t doing this already. This was the schedule in my workplace. And if you wanted to do something nice halfway through and at the end, boxes of dates for them to take home and eat to break the fast would be a nice gesture.

    One of my favorite memories is returning from fieldwork in line at the airport and one of my colleagues passed a box of dates up and down the line for everyone to break fast at the same time. All these strangers, all of us breaking fast with dates in line at the airport as we waited to be allowed out to get our bags and go home. It was a moment of solidarity in our normally separate lives.

    We would also not schedule meetings after noon since people slow down a bit, and if there were lunch or evening events, then take-away boxes were provided. Ramadan was a happy time in the office, although mostly for the men since the women work like crazy cooking all the time in addition to their normal work, but my colleagues loved Ramadan and Eid.

    If you have a favorite halal food truck, you could buy an extra sandwich and tell them to give it to someone in need. They’ll know, and that gives both of you the blessings of Ramadan. It is the season to give to people in need.

    2. magic*

      This is lovely! A truly compassionate, culturally aware response rather than the borderline paternalistic performativity some people are arguing for.

    3. Great comment*

      I love this comment so much. This shows how compassion is about more than a black and white rule of eating/not eating in front of Muslims.

  13. trust me, i read a book once.*

    for the manager worried he might get marijuana in his stocking… first, geez i wish someone would give ME some. second, you dont even need to get into legal/illegal. just tell him it’s definitely not a good idea – employees should never give gifts to their managers. they should spend their money on their loved ones, not their bosses. it’s not appropriate for someone to take a gift from an employee.

  14. Frosty*

    I saw some tiktoks earlier this year about Muslims that work in the restaurant industry and how they cook food all day. They said it could be challenging in some ways but that it was totally okay by them!

    Thinking about my own religion, I find it’s easier to “deny” yourself something when you know it has a purpose or a meaning that is important to you.

    Muslims observing Ramadan are doing it because they want to, and because it has spiritual and religious meaning to them. I’d take them at their word that it’s fine for the coworker to eat and drink around them. It’s a kindness that the OP was trying their hardest to support them. I’m sure with an ongoing conversation on how best to support each other, they would all be able to navigate through just fine.

  15. Apex Mountain*

    Agree that gifting drugs at work is never a good idea, but in a state where weed is legal, could you really be arrested or serve jail time for something like this? Assuming it’s a joint or two, not a kilo.

      1. metadata minion*

        Alcohol is a normal, even default gift even though it’s also a mind-altering substance that has a significant potential for addiction. If it were fully legalized, I don’t see how marijuana is any different. I don’t want either, personally, but it’s worth taking a look at assumptions about different recreational chemicals.

        1. JMC*

          I don’t agree with giving alcohol either. It should not be as socially acceptable as it is. It brings nothing but trouble.

      2. Pescadero*

        Like a bottle of wine, some craft beer, a bad of fancy coffee, or a nice Honduran cigar… I can’t believe anyone would be so wildly stupid to give those drugs to someone.

        1. DJ Abbott*

          Only one of those things puts poisonous fumes into the air for 20-30 feet around it.
          :p
          Signed, a person who is terribly allergic to tobacco smoke, and can be sick in bed for days from it.
          Plenty of people are allergic to weed, too. IMO things that are smoked should be in a different category because it affects everyone around them.

    2. Buzzybeeworld*

      No. It’s legal. Local law enforcement can’t do anything about posession of small amounts of legal procured cannabis, and the feds have never sent the FBI/CIA/DEA/whomever into legal states to arrest people using legal weed.

      1. Peanut Hamper*

        No, it’s still not legal at the federal level. And the past behavior of federal enforcement agencies is in no way indicative of their future behavior.

        Plus, you don’t know if this employee got the weed from a legitimate source or not. This could put you in contact with some people who have less than savory business connections.

        (I say this as someone who lives in a state where weed is legal, but not everyone chooses to buy from a dispensary, because they have always bought it through illegal channels because they are buying other illegal substances from those people.)

      2. Peter the Bubblehead*

        If a company has ANY connection to the Federal government (anything from working a Federal government contract to as simple as McDonalds or other fast food restaurant location on a military installation of within a government-owned building) then that company will have a no-drugs, zero-tolerance policy in place and simply having non-prescription drugs on the premises – even if legal on the state level – would be a fire-able offense. Many of these companies also include the right to randomly drug test any and all employees at any time with no prior notice – you show up to work one morning and your manager says report to this lab [hands you an address] for a urinalysis.
        Not worth the risk of employment. Even more so if you know your company works under Federal regulations. This means if you work for a McDonalds, you fall under their Federal compliance rules whether you are employed at the restaurant on the pier at Norfolk Naval Base or the restaurant in the middle of a Kansas cornfield not anywhere near a Federal facility!

    3. Bananapants*

      Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but my thought was that they were thinking of getting a pipe, grinder, etc. for the OP, not the drug itself.

    4. metadata minion*

      It’s deeply unlikely that you would be arrested for possessing small amounts, but it is still illegal at the federal level and you could be prosecuted in federal court for it.

      The main situation where it’s usually relevant is if you’re at an institution that receives federal funds. I’m at a university and pot is not allowed on campus even though it’s legal in my state, because we don’t want our funding pulled. (Disclaimer: not a lawyer and I’m unclear how likely this would be to actually happen — as with most college campuses, there is definitely pot here — but it seems reasonable to be able to point to an official policy).

  16. Nancy*

    LW2: listen to your coworkers when they say it’s ok. People who fast know that others around them aren’t and know that they will see them drinking water during the day and eating linch at lunch time.

  17. Bella Ridley*

    In the comments on the original letter, the weed OP is writing from Canada where weed is fully legal and no one is being arrested for giving or partaking in it.

    Here it’s treated in most contexts like a bottle of wine as a gift. A packet of gummies or a preroll is not at all an unusual gift in a lot of places if you know the other person partakes.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Thanks for pointing this out! The context of Canada (vs US or elsewhere) definitely makes a big difference in this question.

      1. Bananapants*

        Ah that makes a difference. I live in Canada but I would still find it weird to give a coworker or manager weed. Partially because of residual stigma I suppose, but partially because in this case the manager has partaken *in the past* (maybe not presently) and because it could be tricky to pick out the right product (oil/edibles/prerolls etc., THC concentration, sativa/indica, etc.)

    2. dulcinea47*

      no one is being arrested for it in the states in the US where it’s legal, either. I get treating it with an abundance of caution when it comes to your job, but no one is freaking out about the federal law and in many places would be treated the same as your wine example.

    3. Filicophyta*

      Yes, I lived for a few years in an area in Canada where there were a lot of hobby growers. Giving it as a gift was not unusual, but never at work.

    4. Polyhymnia O’Keefe*

      I’m in Canada and occasionally take gummies. I’m not a hugely regular user, but I have a small stash in my house. My friends and I give weed as gifts to each other (and packets of gummies are definitely cheap enough to fit into our small gift exchange budget), but I don’t think I’ve (yet) seen it at a secret Santa exchange. I’m sure it’s just a matter of time, though. After all, as many others have mentioned, alcohol is a very common gift in those situations.

      I used to work for a non profit, and I remember when cannabis was first legalized, we were advised to look into sponsorships by cannabis companies. We had alcohol sponsors, and this particular consultant advised us that cannabis companies at the time had money and were looking to build their social profile, so would be very open to charitable giving conversations.

      It didn’t fit our profile and we didn’t pursue it, but the difference in reactions from a few people (alcohol vs cannabis) was quite funny.

  18. The Penultimate They/Them*

    #1: Putting out update vibes into the universe for this one – I need to know! Was it a joke that came off poorly? An idea that seemed fun in the moment that they thought better of later? Or did they actually give you Merry Christmas Weed!?

  19. I should really pick a name*

    Some useful context from the comments on the original post:

    The LW is in Canada, so weed is legal federally.
    It’s still a terrible office gift idea, but not because of legal issues.

  20. el l*

    OP3:
    Self-evaluations have a lot of BS in them. But merging that with leadership who’ve clearly read too many woo-woo management books and…it’s a recipe for pure BS.

    Cynicism here is justified.

  22. Lucifer*

    If the coworkers said it’s fine to eat while they’re at their desks, then like…go ahead and do that? Maybe don’t make a huge production out of it all “oh man this is awesome, are you suuuuure you can’t have some??? Not even a little??? Religions are so weird lolz” or otherwise be a jerk. But yeah: they said it’s fine to eat your lunch so like…just eat your damn lunch and stop being a martyr about it. Definitely do not skip drinking water, what the heck is that even about. No one was asking you to do that and it really smacks of performative martyrdom/keyboard warrior antics.

  23. Rondeaux*

    The weed letter is reminding me of another letter, about an employee who left a conference after her manager offered her pot in his hotel room (the employee also told hotel staff).

    The consensus was that employee was way out of line and overrreacted. I wonder if this puts things in a different light, knowing they could be up on federal charges she may have just been acting prudently. Or if her company had a contract with a federal agency

    1. Mid*

      I think a detail like that would have been included in the original letter. And it was still an overreaction. If that employee was concerned about federal charges, they still could have reported to the line of command to have it handled by the company, instead of calling the police and fleeing the state and demanding her coworkers be fired (if I’m recalling the details correctly.) I believe that was the bigger issue in the letter—not her snitching on them for smoking weed, but after the employees were reprimanded by the company, she kept demanding they be fired. That’s out of line.

    3. Mid*

      Ah, I mis-remembered, she told the hotel, who then called the police. The overreaction was still in demanding her coworkers be fired or she gets a transfer or she would quit after the company disciplined them to the degree they felt appropriate, and in leaving the conference early.

      1. Katie Impact*

        There’s an update later on in the comments where the situation blew up (including multiple other staff quitting in solidarity with the employee) in a way that suggests there might have been more going on there than just the pot.

  24. MAW*

    also for letter writer #1 — given that its an employee trying to give a gift to their manager, that’s just another (and maybe less stressful or confrontational) reason to decline a gift and to head off gift-giving at the pass…..

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