I don’t want to be in the middle of my coworker’s crush, a burping boss, and more

by Alison Green on December 18, 2024

I’m on vacation. Here are some past letters that I’m making new again, rather than leaving them to wilt in the archives.

1. I don’t want to be in the middle of my coworker’s crush

Justin is a new coworker who just joined my small team and is in training for the same job I do. I am not in charge of him in any way, but have been showing him parts of the work we are required to do and am involved in the training because I do this work and a lot of the training is on the job. While working on some training, Justin told me that he has a crush on Britney, who is in another department, and began asking some pointed questions about her status and making comments about trying to pursue her romantically.

I have no problem with what Justin does on his own time. These questions and conversations in the workplace do, however, make me uncomfortable. Especially because this conversation involves another coworker who I know only on a professional level. Our team is small and we do occasionally share things about our lives and maybe what we did over the weekend, as well as funny stories about kids and partners on occasion. I really don’t want to escalate this in any way, and the last time I just kinda answered and then “bean-dipped” to another subject. I don’t want to overreact on this, and I am concerned that I am. I want to be able to appropriately respond in a way that is polite and doesn’t damage the relationship. I also don’t want it to feel like I am reprimanding him for poor behavior or anything. I would appreciate your insight on how to handle any further remarks in this regard.

Ick, yeah. I don’t think you’re overreacting. If he wants to ask out Britney, that’s his business, as long as he does it in a work-appropriate way and immediately takes no for an answer. But by talking to you about it, he’s making you part of your colleagues’ romantic concerns in a way that’s inappropriate at work. (It’s also a really high school thing to do. Any chance he’s very young? If he’s not young, this is actually creepier because he should know better after a certain age.)

If he brings it up again, say something like this: “I feel uncomfortable hearing this about a coworker. Can you leave me out of it?” Or, “Sorry, dude, I’m not up for talking about your crush on a coworker. So about (insert work-related topic)…” And if he asks you questions about Britney, tell him, “You’re going to have to talk to Britney directly if you want to know that.” Or, “I don’t feel right having this conversation about a colleague; please leave me out of this.”

I know you asked for polite, and these might not feel super polite, but it really is gross for him to be making this A Thing with coworkers without Britney’s involvement or consent, and you’re doing him a favor by pointing that out.

– 2017

2. I can’t get my coworkers to read my updates or come to my meetings

I am interning in an office for the next three months, and have been tasked with leading a project. The result of this project will be launched several months after my internship has concluded, so my fellow project team members will take it over once I leave.

My issue is that I don’t think my coworkers are as concerned about this project as I am. To give a few examples, I send weekly updates via email that no one reads and I schedule meetings that team members skip without notice beforehand or acknowledgement after. When we have work to be completed, I’ll ask my team members to choose which portions they want to work on, and one particular team member just doesn’t follow through, even after I get our shared supervisor involved.

I don’t know how to address these issues. I’m an intern and have little clout in this organization. The only method I have of holding team members accountable is reminding them repeatedly of deadlines, letting them miss the deadline, and notifying the supervisor if the missed deadline seriously impacts our work. I feel like I want to stop working so hard to keep them up-to-date if they don’t care about this launch as much as I do. I have a sneaking suspicion that once I leave, they’re going to let this project fall through the cracks, but that will not be my problem. How should I continue to address these issues until my internship ends in the next few months?

Well, it’s possible that they’re actually prioritizing correctly — they may have work that takes precedence over this project, and that’s why they’re not invested. And they might not actually need the weekly updates or the meetings. Or maybe they really are supposed to be more involved, and they’re shirking their responsibilities. If that’s the case, that’s not something you have the power to change on your own; you’d need your boss to handle that.

Either way, the best thing to do is to talk to your boss. Explain what’s going on and ask if you’re expecting more involvement from people than you should, or whether you do actually need them reading updates/attending meetings/doing pieces of the work. If it’s the latter, then say this: “I’ve tried talking with people about this quite a bit, and I think it’s at the point where they’ll need to hear it from you, since I don’t have the authority on my own. Could you talk with people about how you need them to be involved?” And if that doesn’t solve it, then go back to your boss and just loop her in — as in, “I wanted to let you know that I’m having trouble getting ___ from people. So I’m doing X, Y, and Z, but I want to make sure you know those other pieces may not be finished by the time I leave unless Jane and Fergus have time for them.”

Beyond that, though, look at ways to streamline what you’re expecting from people. Unless your boss says otherwise, it might be that weekly updates aren’t necessary, and maybe the meetings aren’t either. When people are busy, it’s often the case that if you ask for less of their time, you’ll get it more reliably. (And if this is your one big project while they’re juggling a bunch of things, it’s understandable that you’re more focused on it than they are.)

– 2018

3. My boss has a burping problem

I’ve been at this job for a couple of months now and work with a very small team, about seven, all under one manager. My manager is great, except for one thing — she has a burping problem. She’ll burp loudly throughout the day, every couple of minutes, and usually doesn’t say “excuse me” or pardon herself at all. It’s jarring and frankly irritating, and I find myself glancing up from my computer every couple of minutes when she does it. The office is very small (one room) so there’s no separation or anything.

I don’t know if there’s any sort of medical issue that could be causing it or if it’s just a bad habit. She will typically start each day with one to two bottles of soda, which I’m assuming may contribute.

I don’t know what to do here, or if there is anything I can do. I tend to be on the reserved side and avoid confrontation, personally, so I haven’t broached the topic with any of my coworkers to see if there’s more background/a reason/why no one says anything about it. I’m honestly just kind of nonplussed about the whole situation and thought I’d reach out to see if there was any advice!

Well, it’s possible that it’s a medical condition, which she wouldn’t necessarily disclose to people. (You might be thinking that if that’s the case, the soda is an odd choice as it might exacerbate it, but plenty of people drink soda without regular burping and her beverages aren’t really our business anyway.)

If it’s not a medical condition, that is a lot of burping, so we might as well lean toward assuming it is. And really, if it’s not, there’s nothing to lose by being wrong about that.

Regardless, there’s not really anything you can do to address this. If it’s a medical condition, it’s definitely off-limits … and you’re not likely to find for sure that it’s not — which leaves this in the realm of an annoying behavior that you have to learn to live with.

One adjustment to your thinking that might help: It’s probably better that she’s not saying “excuse me” each time. With it happening every couple of minutes, wouldn’t that be more distracting?

– 2019

4. Should I quit my new job if I can’t get the week of Christmas off?

I started a new job at the end of September where I am a contracted employee through March and I am trying now to get time off for Christmas. In late October, I requested the week off, and was finally told this week that I can only have Christmas Eve and Christmas off. I work a coverage-based job and I am basically the lowest on the totem pole, so I get why that happened.

However, my family is 900 miles away and I would really like to go home for Christmas, which isn’t an option if I don’t have more days off. Am I crazy to quit this job just so I can go home? Maybe I’m acting entitled because I’ve been lucky enough until now to be in school or have more flexible jobs, but I really want to be able to see my family, some of whom I haven’t seen since last year, especially because I didn’t go home for Thanksgiving.

For some added context, in May I was fired from the job I moved here for and my employment has been patchy up until I started my current job. I’m also planning to start a grad program in June. Will quitting this job for a probably petty reason screw me over forever? I’ve already asked my contracting firm, but there’s nothing they can do.

I feel frustrated because I’ve had a bad year what with the firing and also struggling with other non-work stuff, and I’d really just like to be home with my family. I feel like you’ll say I have to suck it up, because it’s only one year, but the work isn’t particularly meaningful, nor is this an important job for my career that would make it feel worth missing Christmas.

It won’t screw you over forever, no, but you’ll need to leave this job off your resume (since you’ll only have worked there a few months). The big question is about your financial situation — can you support yourself if you don’t get another job until you start grad school in June? It can be tough to find jobs for just a few months, but if you can (which might mean temping, retail, or food service), then you’re likely to get a bit of a reset with grad school anyway. But if you’re not certain you can do that and can’t support yourself otherwise, be cautious about walking away from a steady paycheck.

It’s also worth looking at whether something bigger is going on. The combination of the patchy work history, the firing, and your inclination to leave after a couple of months despite that context makes me wonder if there are other pieces to examine: Are you quick to leave jobs when something isn’t to your liking? Do you get bored quickly? Are you picking the wrong jobs? Maybe it’s nothing like that and this has been a string of bad luck, but it’s worth reflecting on (especially before you spend the time and money on grad school!).

– 2019

Read an update to this letter here.

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{ 115 comments }

{ 115 comments… read them below }

  1. Estrella the Starfish*

    Am I being dense or is the link to the crush update the wrong link? I have just finished for Christmas so have Christmas-wine brain so it could just be me!

    1. RCB*

      Why not both? :). Sorry, couldn’t resist the easy joke. No, it’s not you, the link is the wrong one.

      That said, I was just thinking the other day how impressive it is that Alison manages all of the links to and from the articles and updates, I don’t think I could keep everything that organized, I’d go nuts!

          2. Kit*

            Of course we are, Nog is the Ferengi willing to be open to unionization! What better mascot for AaM could we have?

  2. Double A*

    Oh jeez, regarding #4, time travelling advice would be, “Absolutely go spend Christmas 2019 with your family, no job is worth missing it.” In general since that time I feel like advice might lean more towards prioritizing family time now.

    I’m glad in the update they did get to see some family, and I hope they are now teaching! Even though that was a tough time to get into it, it’s still a great job if you’re cut out for it.

    1. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

      And follow the link to the original letter. It was in the same post with a letter from someone going on a retreat, who wanted to know what constitutes “casual wear”. That had an update too: no retreat!

      2. librarian*

        As someone who moved to start a grad program in August of that year that was literally virtual THE ENTIRE PROGRAM, I had violent flashbacks.

    3. Nicosloanica*

      I thought that too haha. After the first letter was published I probably would have leaned toward “suck it up, buttercup, life is pain” but now, knowing what we do … a crappy job that you’re planning to leave versus time you can never get back with your family?? Glad OP worked it out themselves (from the update) and that they are in a different mode of life now where such goals conflict less. I don’t want the new generation of workers to go through what I did coming up.

      1. Tea Monk*

        Yea, people say young people don’t want to work, but it’s just a realignment to realize that these jobs don’t love you back but your family does.

        I’m not against doing a good job or even putting in hours on call, but sometimes people need to realize what’s really important

    4. Helewise*

      I thought the same. My initial read was more that it was a huge bummer, but that’s what a real job means sometimes… but with that timing? It’s given me pause, because we never know what’s around the bend.

    5. Leenie*

      I agree with your general point, but think this particular case worked out nicely. Depending on how things unfolded afterward, she may not want to do it differently, going back. As it was, her parents got to visit and see her life in the city where she lived, before she had to move back to their home during COVID. It must have been a bit of a reframe of the expectations between them, where it was no longer assumed that she was the kid who would drop everything in her current life and go home for the holidays, which may have a lasting, positive impact for her. Anyway, it was lovely that they were able to visit, and experience a holiday in a different way that also wouldn’t be an option again for some time. In concept about how we all approach life though, I’m with you.

      1. e271828*

        Yes, I agree! It was for the best that the LW take the bad with the good and accept the denial of time off over Christmas. The transition from a student schedule with extended breaks to employment which rarely has such can be difficult for some people and LW’s work situation wasn’t unusual. Returning to the parents during COVID isn’t a choice I would have made, but LW sounds very lightly rooted in the work area, so [shrug].

    6. Lexi Vipond*

      I quite seriously don’t think I’d have survived the first half of 2020 without work to think about and colleagues to talk to, even virtually. I don’t know how much weight I would put on ‘what if there’s another lockdown’ if I was trying to decide whether to leave a bad job with nothing lined up now, but I’m very glad I wasn’t in that position then.

      I don’t think there was any intention here to say ‘you should sacrifice ANYTHING for your family’, but even for people with good family relationships, getting to spend one particular day with them isn’t necessarily going to outweigh having structure to your days, or feeling that you’ve achieved something for yourself instead of having it provided for you, or being able to pay for things that are important to you personally, or adult interaction, or whatever else you might be getting from a job even if there’s someone else who can provide you with necessities.

      (Although the OP would have been out of a job in March 2020 anyway, so it was just bad timing all round!)

    7. WillowSunstar*

      Especially since we had a global pandemic, and you never know if that Christmas might be the last one you will see certain elderly relatives.

    1. T2*

      Several decades ago, I made the mistake of misinterpreting my relationships at work as my friends. I was joking around in a high school sort of way. (It involved making a joke about a popular jacket brand and a particular person’s wearing of a much less popular knockoff of said brand. It was fast food and we were all like 16 and 18) I thought it was all good fun and these were my friends. Well, I, and a bunch of others were fired when someone decided that the joking around was not in fact joking around.

      Learned a couple of lessons that day. At first I thought that the lesson was that you never know what someone might consider harassment. But in actual point of fact, most people just want to come to work, be treated professionally, be valued for their professional qualities, get paid and go home. They don’t want to go to work to get hit on. They consider boorish behavior harassment, because it is.

      So since people are at work to work, I just work and do my job. Work is not a friendship farm where I develop my personal relationships. While I try to be kind and approachable, I do not really get involved in the personal lives of others at work.

      That high school business at the restaurant was because I misinterpreted the workplace as high school. It was stupid and unnecessary. And now that I have family obligations who rely on my income, I can’t put that at risk by getting engaging in non productive workplace behavior.

      All that is to say that last year I had something similar happen when a coworker tried to for details about another coworker because he had a romantic intention.

      I handled it by saying that “sally is a good coworker and I admire the way she does her job, but I don’t know anything about her personal life that she would want me to share. I try to stay out of other people’s private business”

    3. 34avemovieguy*

      there’s really nothing to indicate that Justin is making Britney uncomfortable or that he’s doing anything inapppropriate.

      1. Colette*

        The whole letter is about inappropriate things he’s doing. Britney may reciprocate his interest, but involving coworkers is inappropriate regardless.

      3. ViridianGreen*

        Scoping around and trying to rope in someone’s coworkers to ask them out is pretty inappropriate. Dating isn’t a team sport, and trying to make it open season for her coworkers to speculate about her romantic life is invasive.

      4. MassMatt*

        Justin is making the LW uncomfortable by trying to rope them in to their drama over asking a coworker out.

        Justin needs to grow up, this isn’t middle school where you ask people to pass secret notes in class. This should not take a lot of reconnaissance, or involve drama with coworkers.

        Talk to Britney in a non-creepy way and ask her out. If she says yes, keep the dating drama away from work and behave professionally. If she says no, take no for an answer, move on, and behave professionally.

        1. T2*

          Or you know just don’t talk to her at all and save the looking for romance for the personals and tinder.

          Work is work. People come to work because they have too. No one comes to work hoping to be hit on.

  4. Lady Lessa*

    If you want a good update, (with someone cutting onions in the kitchen) scroll down to the update about the woman with miscarriage. It’s in the same update as the woman asking about quitting for Christmas

  5. Upside down Question Mark*

    I really want an update on the one about the burping. My mom privately shared with a colleague something like “I don’t need to know your medical info, and will never bring it up again, but I wanted to share that a loved one of mine had sudden, uncontrollable burping and it ended up being quite serious, and we were grateful they got it checked out.” In her friend’s case it was cancer and they caught it in enough time to give him a few more years. But mom has a background in medicine which is probably why she could say what she said. I don’t think OP would be hated by sharing genuine concerns.

  6. L-squared*

    #1 just seems like not a big deal, at least based on what you have listed. He asked about her relationship status, which I think is a fairly normal thing to do if he is thinking of asking someone out. If you don’t know, or don’t want to say, just say “I don’t know”. Him saying he is going to ask her out, again, to me, not a big deal. Unless he is constantly asking you to run interference or bringing it up every conversation, this just seems extremely harmless. But, also these scripts seem overly formal. It’s as easy as “Dude, if you want to ask her out, go for it. But I don’t know her that well, and I’m not getting involved in workplace romances”. Say it with a chuckle, and it will be fine. You are making WAY too big a deal about it though.

    #2. Yeah, if an intern tried to call me in for meetings on any kind of regular basis, it would likely be LAST on my priority list of things to do. That includes the admin stuff that I always put off as long as possible lol. Sorry, you are an intern, not a coworker. If you NEED these people there, you should have your managers be the meeting organizer.

    #4. You can quit if you want. If seeing your family is that important, by all means make the choices you need to. But at the same time, I’d say if this was a deal breaker, it should have come up earlier. As you said, you are the low man on the totem pole. It looks a bit… bratty I will say. But if its only been a short stint, then I don’t think its that big of a deal

    2. Ellis Bell*

      Asking about a person’s relationship status is not abnormal, and I wouldn’t say Justin is a villain, or up to anything besides planning on asking someone out, but it can be pretty fraught to divulge someone else’s relationship status without their knowing. Pretending to have a boyfriend is the only way some women get any peace. I suppose OP could check first: “Justin likes you, do I tell him you’re single?” but that’s the opposite to OP’s aim of not getting involved. I just use a grey rocking technique with this stuff: “Oh I don’t know!” or “Huh I don’t really pay attention to that stuff” etc; it usually delivers the message that I am not in fact Emma Woodhouse.

      1. L-squared*

        Sure, which is why I said the answer of “I don’t know her relationship status” is totally valid.

        I just think OP is making this a far bigger deal than it is, while also feeling like some kind of formal script is necessary.

        Sometimes I think people writing in overcomplicate things instead of having a friendly conversation and interaction

    3. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I do wonder if on #1 Justin is continuing to talk to OP about his feelings about Britney, wanting to ask her out, etc. One comment of “Britney seems cool, do you know if she’s in a relationship? I want to ask her out?” is one thing, but if this is happening continually it crosses into weird territory.

      1. Elphaba*

        Yeah, that wasn’t clear to me. It seems like there’s nothing wrong with Justin asking “Has Britney ever mentioned that she has a partner?” to spare him the embarrassment of asking her out himself, only to be told, “Thanks, but I’m already seeing someone.”

      2. L-squared*

        This is true. It’s not clear, but it kind of sounds like he asked one time about her relationship status, and mentioned one other time about asking her out.

        If this is a repeated thing, yeah its an issue. I still think its an easy issue to deal with, but I would understand it more.

  7. Tradd*

    4 – if someone is willing to quit a job because they can’t go home for Christmas, maybe they need to stay within an hour or two of family. You can’t always count on getting that week off. There may be other coworkers who would like to have it off sometimes. Some jobs don’t allow everyone to be off that week.

    1. Falling Diphthong*

      While this is fair, the letter writer was also young and new to this type of scheduling, and to other aspects. (Like living far from family.) Sometimes we have to try things to figure out whether they are great, workable, or something we really dislike.

      1. doreen*

        That makes sense as to why the LW took a job 900 miles away this time, but I don’t get the impression from the letter that they realize that this will very possibly always be an issue – it’s one thing to quit a job once over taking time off at Christmas , especially right before going back to school. It would be very different if they kept taking coverage based jobs and quitting because they couldn’t get their preferred vacation time. ( and a lot of jobs are coverage based in the sense that everyone can’t take the same day/week off even if no one has to actually do anyone else’s work). That would start to have an effect pretty quickly.

        1. Ellis Bell*

          Update says that not only did they move closer to home, but they were going into teaching which is one of the jobs where you can reliably make plans and travel over Christmas (even if you have to take work with you).

      2. Hlao-roo*

        Yeah, the letter writer commented a few times on the original post with more context, which I think goes a long way of explaining their thought process. Copy/pasted from various comments:

        I’ve moved a lot and lived even farther away than this, but I’m not as excited about this area and it’s probably a good idea to get away from a city where every third person is employed by the company that fired me.

        I see what people are saying, and I think at this point, I won’t be going home. I’ve just had a lot of my mom getting angry on my behalf and telling me this company clearly doesn’t care about me, so it’s nice to see some people telling me to deal to help balance that out ha.

        Although I’ve been reading this blog for a while, I totally didn’t think about asking for the week off when I started. My planned/past field is usually pretty flexible with vacation/Christmas. Will definitely ask about that in the future!

        I think I would be less stressed if when I had initially said in October that I wanted the time off my manager had just said that it wouldn’t be possible, instead just saying, it’s tight then. However, my manager isn’t the one who makes the schedule so I guess it’s hard for him to e definitive. Someone also told me that they don’t look at requests until the month before, so that also didn’t let me know until recently whether I’d get the time off. Oh well, lesson learned to bring this stuff up earlier.

        I see a combination of emotions about that specific location and the firing, family guilt, and norms from a different field. It looks to me like the letter writer learned a lot from the comments, and hopefully they are back in the planned field with more flexible schedules!

        1. Observer*

          It looks to me like the letter writer learned a lot from the comments, a

          I have to agree. Between the comments and the way the write in their update, it’s pretty clear that they did take some real lessons.

      3. Dust Bunny*

        . . . and sometimes we don’t get everything our way in the process.

        I have to be honest: In the coverage-based jobs I’ve had if someone wanted all of Christmas week off they would have been told, tough rocks. That’s part of “coverage based”, and your time isn’t more important than your coworkers’ who will have to cover your shifts. If it’s so important to you to be home with family for holidays you don’t take a coverage-based job a thousand miles away. And sometimes you have to miss a holiday or two in the process of learning that if you can’t afford to quit every time it comes up.

        (I live near immediate family but I can count on one hand the number of major holidays I’ve spent with extended family because we don’t live nearby. My parents moved us away for their jobs. That’s how it goes sometimes.)

        1. Strive to Excel*

          I’ve got a family member who does this in a coverage-based healthcare job. But to do it they very deliberately traded with coworkers and ended up working very heavily on the weeks of both Thanksgiving and New Year’s Eve/New Year’s Day.

    2. Ellis Bell*

      So many ways that ‘some’ jobs can differ though – some jobs are easy to quit if you need to, and some jobs you’d be working right through the main days anyway, so being two hours away makes no difference.

      1. Tradd*

        The average American office job generally isn’t going to have you working the major holidays so being an hour or two away gets you home for the Big Day.

    3. Silver Robin*

      if you read the update, they did, in fact, do just that. They got into a grad program a few hours away so they could visit more easily. They also did stay in the job and their parents visited for Christmas so they got a couple of days with immediate family. They even did well enough in the job to consider extending the contract but we all know what happened in March 2020. They decided to go home to said family and completely understood their company not wanting to support an out of state temp.

      This was a learning experience and they learned just fine.

    4. Feelings Can Be So Inconvenient*

      This is truly the big reason I choose to stay in higher ed and make less money (I’m an executive assistant): I’m waving goodbye on the 20th and won’t be back til the 6th and only 2 of those will be vacation days.

    6. fhqwhgads*

      I was kinda gobsmacked by the update to that one – specifically the bit about ending up a “short 5 hour drive from family”. I mean, I get a 5 hour drive is way simpler than a 5 hour flight, but once that LW started talking in those terms I realize my frame of reference for anything they’re saying is probably out of alignment.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        To be fair, the LW wrote “an easy five-hour car ride.”

        I’ve lived in a few different areas of the US and there are some places where a 5-hour drive can be pretty easy (places with interstates connecting your origin and destination and little highway traffic). There are also places where even a 1-hour drive can be difficult (driving across NYC during rush hour, for example).

  8. Not That Kind of Doctor*

    Anyone else read #2 thinking “oh, honey, they weren’t going to have an intern lead a project anyone else cared about,” and then get a little sad because you can’t remember ever being that earnest?

    1. Pescadero*

      It’s interesting – and maybe things are different with engineering… but that wouldn’t be at all unusual in my experience.

      I was part of leading a project designing a fire loading database for a nuclear power plant, and owned my own unit block on the design of a production microprocessor as an intern.

      We basically did the exact same work with the exact same responsibility as full time engineers – just in lower volume.

    2. Varthema*

      Yes, my first thought was that it was a program management issue, totally understandable –
      1) The intern program gives the intern a project, great real-world practice
      2) The intern conscientiously follows all the steps in good project management, good for them
      3) Nobody accounts for the fact that it’s hard to manage a project that isn’t actually critical so nobody cares or follows through

    3. Jackalope*

      I did have the thought that it wasn’t likely to be a super important project, but also that it would be so frustrating trying to get everyone to contribute when they had better things to do. Normally the nice thing about group projects at work vs at school is that there can be actual consequences if someone doesn’t participate. But in this case the intern didn’t have any way to move forward if others didn’t want to.

      1. Nicosloanica*

        Yeah. But the boss/coworkers should kindly push back and explain that! “This project shouldn’t require weekly check ins, it’s not a priority for most people, so just do the best you can with X and Y through emails or quick questions. It’s shouldn’t actually be that naive to assume if your boss gave you an assignment, they’re expecting you to do it to the best of your ability (but it maybe is).

        1. Archi-detect*

          And also lots of projects do need weekly or bieeekly checkins do that sets the example that yours should too, if you don’t know better, which as you point out doesnt hsppen magically

    4. bamcheeks*

      I thought that, but ALSO one of the hardest parts of project management is “how do I get people to care about this when it’s high priority for me and low priority for them”, and that doesn’t necessarily go away when you move into a substantive role!

      1. Jackalope*

        True, but the good thing about being in a position that’s higher than intern is that you can put some teeth into it if your coworkers don’t comply. Not always, of course, but you’re more likely to be able to give them consequences, or have their boss give them consequences.

      2. Dust Bunny*

        Okay, but then give them some guidance and back-up! They’re interns! They are literally there because they don’t know how to do this yet.

      3. Turquoisecow*

        Oh yeah. I’m not a an intern but I work part time on one thing which is obviously my priority but no one else’s – not that they think it’s unimportant but they have a million other things to do and a lot of them are very time sensitive so they may intend to work on my thing but then a bunch of other stuff comes up first which is time sensitive and counts toward their year end evaluations and whether they keep their job so they obviously prioritize the other stuff. But it is very frustrating to not get answers to emails or not have folks attend meetings or whatever and have the project basically stall while you twiddle your thumbs and worry about whether you’re going to get fired because there’s no progress being made.

        If OP’s company is smart, this is an important but not super important project, since they gave it to an intern. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were expecting *some* progress but not *completion* of the task.

        My advice would definitely be to sit down with the boss, be frank about lack of participation, and ask about how to proceed. If it is important and people should be focusing on it, then a manager should be running the meetings and holding people accountable for not answering emails or showing up to meetings. If it isn’t super important and it’s understandable, maybe the boss can help direct OP to what/who to focus on, or how to get people to help.

        I hope it all worked out okay. Sounds like OP learned about how to work with people if nothing else!

      4. learnedthehardway*

        One of the most pithy – and yet inactionable – pieces of advice I got when leading a project for stakeholders who were really NOT interested or willing to invest was “If you’re trying to herd cats, lead from the front with an open can of tuna.”

        Reader, I did not have tuna or anything analogous in a business context (in my situation, it would have been funding, which I needed the stakeholders to provide).

        In the end, I had to rescope the project to something I could accomplish on my own.

    5. ScruffyInternHerder*

      I figure it’s one of two scenarios:

      1. They are not having an intern lead an important project, but the intern has been told that their project is of utmost importance.

      2. They are indeed having an intern lead an important project, because they are completely understaffed, and because they’re understaffed, the coworkers do not have any capacity due to being swamped.

      Have herded interns in both situations, and have been the intern in both situations. Honestly, scenario two above isn’t awful for learning at least? (That’s my own bias, I’ve had far better long term outcomes from that than the former…)

      1. Flor*

        I’m leaning towards #2 because the coworkers are missing meetings without any acknowledgement. Most people, I think, would at least send the intern a brief message to say, “Sorry, I can’t make it because I have a scheduling conflict” (even if that conflict is “I need to focus on another project”) if they’re simply prioritising other work, because it’s rude to just not even acknowledge that they’re missing a meeting. The fact they’re not even doing that suggests to me they’re absolutely drowning in other work.

      2. Turquoisecow*

        I would believe either one because in my experience when management gives you a project it’s often “This is VERY important and should be your TOP priority and the business will FAIL if it is not completed!” But they also say that about literally every project you’re given and it’s only if you ask about how to prioritize all these VERY important tasks that you might get close to the truth. And as an intern OP also obviously doesn’t see much of the big picture so may have an inflated sense of the importance of this project because of how much it was talked up when they got it.

        1. MassMatt*

          Ah yes, the terrible manager who thinks every project and piece of work is “TOP PRIORITY”. If everything is top priority, nothing is.

    6. Dust Bunny*

      That’s a crappy thing to do to an intern.

      The interns at my job don’t have to lead group projects, and if for some reason they did have to do something that involved permanent staff our supervisor would make it very clear that we were to participate. Giving an intern a project that depends on other people but not giving those people the requirement and space to work on it is BS. IF your staff don’t have time to do it don’t make it an intern project!

      1. Dust Bunny*

        Even if it’s a make-work project to give an intern some experience, I’d be expected to participate. If I don’t have time, I’m an adult and can talk to my supervisor about that.

        1. Daisy-dog*

          Agreed. There is a certain expectation that this relationship-building (not just with the intern, but also their university). I sponsored a project with some MBA students earlier this year and every single executive made time to chat with them!

      2. Observer*

        That’s a crappy thing to do to an intern.

        Yes. Really, really unfair.

        Giving an intern a project that depends on other people but not giving those people the requirement and space to work on it is BS.

        So much. If the project is important why would you give it to the person who has the *least* capacity to make it happen and then do NOTHING to improve their chances? And if it’s not important, why would mislead them into pestering and annoying everyone else?

        Now, the intern sounds like they have some brains – they had the sense to reach out to Alison for advice.

    7. MrsBuddyLee*

      If you read the comments on the original post (search for “The Intern*”), this wasn’t a traditional “internship”. It was part of a management development program for early-to-mid career professionals and this particular person had 5 years experience already. It was an actually important project that they were getting their first project management experience on.

  9. Nicosloanica*

    The last letter is a little heart-breaking to me. I get it, we need to make sacrifices for our career, especially early in the job. But since OP presumably has to fly home for the holidays, and was also working (?) Thanksgiving – did they also have to move 900 miles away for work? – it is a bitter pill to swallow, particularly when you plan to leave in June anyway so you’re not even that invested in growing in this role or getting next year off there. When I was young and my job tenure was patchy, I think I was the “low man” at three or four Christmasses in a row. Those were lonely years.

    1. ecnaseener*

      It is sad, but the update is sweet – LW’s parents came to them instead so they weren’t alone!

      And in all fairness, the advice wasn’t even in favor of sacrificing for LW’s “career,” just for the paycheck. Which still sucks of course! But I appreciate that the advice takes a realistic look at the situation instead of swinging fully to one side or the other of “don’t be unprofessional, suck it up” vs “no job is worth missing Christmas, be free and don’t worry about having enough money to pay the rent!”

      1. mango chiffon*

        The update still made me a little sad as it was sent May 2020 and the LW was talking about going back to grad school for teaching in August. I assume they had to do that all online!

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Yes, I thought it was a good balance of “Can you quit this job and expect to get a similar one in January?” “Do you have savings to see you through?” “Is the plan to start a graduate program in June locked down, or hopeful and waiting on acceptances and grants and other stuff?” Where the answers to those things really matter–they’re not rhetorical.

        I think LW had a bit of “A bunch of stuff has gone wrong in the past 6 months, and I have locked into going home for Christmas as what my soul needs.” And it can help to get both more granular (Is this a McJob and I could pick up another food service job in January?) and more big picture (Would going home for Christmas not actually change all the things I dislike about where I am now, and I should be focusing on a different solution?). Sometimes we get stuck on a framing and solution (The problem in this office is Carl, who is tap dancing on my desk while flinging powdered creamer around as snow) and then it turns out removing Carl did not remove all the deeper problems, just the most evident symptom.

    2. MassMatt*

      It’s in the nature of the work. I worked retail for several years, and then in a call center. Coverage was essential in both. In most cases, there were systems so that people did not have to work each and every holiday, but especially in the early years I had to work most holidays, or the days just before and after them.

      It’s not ideal, but it comes with the territory. Many people could not handle it well, sometimes acting surprised they had to work holidays when this was something made very clear from the start. It’s a big reason these sorts of jobs have high turnover.

      People who have not worked these kinds of jobs often seem incredulous that yes, coverage is needed, yet it never occurs to them that yes, people work at the airport on Christmas and answer the phone about credit card charges during Thanksgiving.

  10. Fruit Punch*

    LW2 this feels like a classic case of what I call “toddler with a juice box”

    Basically picture a parent driving alone with a toddler. The parent enters a six lane highway on the left and needs to exit on the right one mile later in fairly congested traffic. In the back seat there’s a toddler who desperately wants a juice box and needs help getting the straw in. The parent is unable to focus on the juice box situation because they’re really needing to focus on driving right now. They’ll help the toddler just as soon as they can pull over somewhere safe, but for a little while they’re going to need to ignore the screams for juice.

    However to the toddler the juice box is the most important thing in the room. They’re thirsty and they can’t solve the problem on their own because they’re lack the skills to do so! Also they’re a toddler so they lack understanding about what’s happening around them in order to be able to get why their juice box is not the biggest problem for their parent.

    **note that the toddler portion of the metaphor is not meant to infantilize the intern, this was thing that came fully fledged into my head one day when I was onboarding a new hire who kept pinging me every 20 minutes for objectively minor things (like who to talk to about ordering different pens) while I was working on a massive presentation with an insane deadline. Weirdly thinking of them as a toddler who was asking for helped me find some empathy.**

    1. Helewise*

      I’m working with someone like this right now and am going to plant that analogy right in my brain. Thank you.

      1. Fruit Punch*

        Happy to help. Alison talks a lot about reframing your thinking and it’s something that I struggle with a lot of the time, but when this popped into my head while working with a new hire it really did save my sanity.

    2. Falling Diphthong*

      I appreciate the last paragraph as a way to encapsulate “This person doesn’t know what they don’t know, and that’s not their fault.”

    3. Llamalibrarian*

      This is so helpful. I lead a team of about 20 and all of them are like this, and this helps me have empathy both for them and for myself (because when this is happening 20 times in a row, it’s insanely stressful).

      1. Fruit Punch*

        It’s the worst and it’s definitely something I wish I’d understood more when I was a younger manager. And also when I was a lower level/newer employee and thus the toddler in the metaphor. I look back on some of the things I thought were mission critical at the time and how I tried to push others for their participation in my projects and I just cringe, but now I remind myself that I was the toddler.

  11. mango chiffon*

    I have never heard of the phrase “bean-dipped” in this context, and prior to Love is Blind (which had a COMPLETELY different context) I’ve never heard of this phrase. Am I living under a rock?

    1. Juli G.*

      I don’t know. I feel like it was really popular online several years ago. One site I visited in particular used a lot…maybe Etiquette Hell? Or maybe it was this one lol.

      When I saw it in the letter, I actually thought “Blast from the past!”

      1. mango chiffon*

        I tried searching it up and unfortunately got the more recent definition of it that was used in Love is Blind (and definitely NOT safe for work). Will just chalk this up to phrases of the time that I apparently missed!

      2. Two-Faced Big-Haired Food Critic*

        Etiquette Hell, yes. “Have you tried the bean dip?” was the boilerplate answer to inappropriate questions.

        1. Dust Bunny*

          Is THAT where it came from? I know what it means but it never made sense to me. (And I learned the same phrase with a very, very, different meaning years earlier, which was frustrating.)

    2. MsSolo (UK)*

      It’s either a Miss Manners or Etiquette Hell coinage? The idea is to silently listen to the offensive comment, and then instead of responding reply with something completely unrelated about the party, like the bean dip, to signal you are refusing to engage on the former subject.

    3. Learn ALL the things*

      It’s a metaphor that was used more in the early to mid 2010’s, I haven’t hear people use it much in recent years.

      Basically the strategy is, you’re at a party and somebody says something really awkward that you don’t want to engage with, so you go “Mm-hmm, wow, this bean dip is good. Have you tried it?” And it became a shorthand for using that style of non-sequitor subject change.

      2. So they all cheap-ass rolled over and one fell out*

        I found a probably AI-written article that claimed it was from the 90s.

  12. Alan*

    Came here to say this. It sounds like a toy project. But also, weekly meetings? The purpose of giving an intern something like this is to give them project-leading experience, and for that experience to be useful, they need to be guided. It doesn’t sound like that was happening here.

    1. amoeba*

      They don’t actually say the meetings are weekly though, do they? They send updates weekly, and they also schedule meetings, no frequency given.

  13. Addicted to Sims*

    Re: #3 (Burping Boss) – there is a commonly prescribed medication for high blood pressure that causes persistent gas and belching (ask me how I know). I’ve had friends tell me about other meds that had that effect on them. So maybe they’re handling it the best they can.

  14. Olive*

    One of the reasons I left a job was because I had a coworker who repeatedly made a burping/snorting noise that was almost certainly due to a condition out of his control, although I didn’t have any information about his medical status. I can’t wear earplugs or noise blocking headphones all day because I’m prone to tension headaches and I just COULD NOT TAKE IT ANY LONGER.

    There’s no moral to this story.

    1. Frankly, Mr. Shankly*

      I share a courtyard with the next building, meaning that in addition to paper thin walls, we hear noise from an open window as well. My next door neighbor is a world class you-know-what and not only does he slam every door, every cabinet, screams at his partner so much I’ve called 911….. but he loudly and performatively belches over and over and over sometimes until the small hours….. and my partner is also unable to wear earplugs so we’re often unable to sleep though the chorus of his burps. And I know it’s performative because I can hear her say stop and him laughing and then getting louder…..

    2. spcepickle*

      I moved departments once to get away from a constantly sniffling snorting co-worker. No shade to post nasal drip but I also COULD NOT TAKE IT! I was coming home every day with headaches because I was stress hunching.
      Moral of the story is that what seems like a drastic measures to some are 100% necessary to others.

  15. Midnight*

    Hi folks! Ask a Manager community is generally a conscientious bunch so I wanted to gently point out that “lowest on the totem pole” isn’t a great phrase to use. It not only trivializes the sacredness of totem poles it’s also very incorrect in its assumption that being lower on the pole means you have less significance.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      Thanks for flagging this. The phrase was also flagged in the comments section on the original post, and the letter writer responded:

      Thank you for pointing that out! I will be more conscientious of that language in the future.

      (Flagged by Slothy Coffee on the original and the letter writer responded as LW 1 for anyone who wants to read the original exchange.)

    2. Statler von Waldorf*

      Huh, that’s interesting. I did contract work for a Haida First Nation owned company about a decade ago, and I distinctly remember that they loved that phrase and used it all the time. I honestly have never heard of it being offensive.

      So I just asked my First Nation co-worker about it, and he laughed in my face and made a disparaging comment about [censored] white people being offended on his behalf. Take that for what it’s worth.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Even if some don’t find it offensive, it is not accurate! There is not a hierarchy in totem poles, and lowest position doesn’t mean lowest rank.

      3. Midnight*

        I was gently pointing out something potentially problematic and your response was “I’ve never heard of that and my FN friend said it’s ok”? Which is an unfortunately typical response when someone tries to identify racism.

        I’m Indigenous, not a white person getting offended on someone else’s behalf. Most marginalized groups have language they might use amongst themselves as resistance/refusal but is problematic when used in other contexts.

  16. Amber*

    I have a medical condition where I burp constantly. It’s uncomfortable and embarrassing. At home I don’t try to control it and I do sometimes forget at work. There’s nothing I can do about it tho and I’ve basically decided that people can deal.

    1. Zap R.*

      Yeah, former super-burper here. I’m sure listening to it sucked for my coworkers but I guarantee that actually having the quarter-sized gastric ulcer sucked worse.

    2. Ann O*

      I occasionally let loose a hiccup-burp screech.

      It’s very sudden and hard to control. In my case, I got GERD during pregnancy and am one of the unlucky 1 in 5 that continues to experience symptoms. Medications help, but it’s still awfully embarrassing when I sound like a freaking pterodactyl.

  17. CTA*

    For #4, I’m curious if LW was aware of the holiday coverage needs?

    I once was employed at a business that had a blackout period for PTO during the last two weeks of the year. December was the busiest time of the month and also the month where it made the majority of its revenue. The blackout rule applied to everyone. Heck, I was even required (well, it was technically optional but the culture was you didn’t opt out) to stay online/be reachable/be near my laptop until midnight on New Year’s Eve because that’s when we’d get hammered with online orders (we were compensated an extra PTO day for staying up on NYE). Things were so busy that the business would cater lunch or gave us $15 food delivery credit during the final week of the year. I think we could get a single day or two approved for PTO or sick leave if you really needed it (I’d need to go to a doctor’s appointment that time of year), but don’t count on getting multiple, consecutive days or a full week approved at that business. When I tell people this anecdote, a lot of them are shocked…which I found weird because not everyone gets the luxury of opting out of these jobs.

    1. fhqwhgads*

      I’m sort of shocked that people still manage to be shocked by that. On the other hand, if you hire someone in October for a role that has PTO blockouts in December, you think you’d tell them that during onboarding at the latest, rather than waiting for it to come up when they submit the request. It’s not inherently crappy to have a policy that won’t allow employees to take consecutive days off during expected-to-be-busy times in a coverage-based job. It IS crappy to not tell people that’s the case when you hire them. I’m sympathetic to the letter writer’s surprise at when/how she found out, even though I also think had she quit over it that would’ve been an interesting hill to die on.

  18. Jenny D*

    Regarding LW1: I’m glad this letter was reposted, and that the original LW was uncomfortable with the crusher seeming to want LW to be involved in their crush.

    I have a friend who’s a consultant. She’s very good at what she does (making sure teapots are correctly signed and validated). At one client where she spent half a year, there was a guy in another department who got a crush on her. Which is not wrong in itself, but he made up reasons for her to have to come help him with his signatures. He also enlisted coworkers to help him get “opportunities” alone with her.

    She said it took her a while to figure out because she didn’t expect this kind of behaviour in the workplace. Once she did, she felt creeped out – not so much by the guy who had a crush, but by the other coworkers who’d been cheering him on and been friendly to her in order to get her to come sit with the crusher at lunch and so on, and analyzing every interaction to figure out if it indicated interest from her side. Very high school crush, but these people were in their late 20’s/early 30’s.

    She would have wished those other coworkers had refused to involve themselves.

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