open thread – December 13, 2024

by Alison Green on December 13, 2024

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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{ 473 comments }

{ 473 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Lauren*

    In last week’s OP, I wrote how my new manager “Bob” who started 2 weeks ago (so 3 weeks now) was being patronizing and was trying to jump in instead of learning more about our internal processes, etc. I wondered if it would be worth it to ask him if he had any questions about why things are done a certain way, or if he had questions about my past roles or skills. One commenter replied that he sounds like he thinks he knows best without learning what’s actually going on, so I should tread carefully.

    Wow – they were 100% on the money! This man is absolutely awful and so disrespectful!

    Since then, I’ve chatted with my teammate, who told me some of the rude things Bob said to him. Then yesterday Bob was asked a question by someone in another department, so he had me hop on a huddle to explain what she was asking. So I did, and he goes, “hahaha, I don’t think that’s what she meant.” He said that twice, and I told him he’d have to confirm with her. Lo and behold, it turned out I was right.

    He’s acting like this after not even being here a month! I don’t want to go to his boss who hired him because he always sticks his head in the sand and doesn’t like conflict.

    How do I even respond back when my boss is so rude and disrespectful? So far with everything, he likes to push things off on me, but then gets controlling and nitpicky about it. Even if I, or my teammate, tell him that our former manager handled X, Y, Z, he’ll reply that we shouldn’t be passing the buck around and we should know what each of us are working on in case someone is out for the day.

    Yes I’m job searching but it’s not going well.

    Reply ↓
    2. MaryAnn*

      As a rule I stopped “translating” what other people are asking or stating to my bosses. I tell them to ask the original person. I say “I’m not sure, you best ask them”. And then I let them deal with clarification. I used to jump in and explain things then I realized they make double, triple that me, and I don’t live in other people’s heads so “I don’t know” is a good enough answer.

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      1. Hannah Lee*

        That’s a great approach. And with a Bob, I’ve found it’s a good idea to not put any buffers between them and whoever they are going to Bob at.

        Let them ask the original person for clarification, and if they are going to go all Bob in response, let THAT person see it (and possibly question them, call them out for being rude or ill informed or whatever they are that day)

        Otherwise you become the buffer getting all the Bob-ness, and it just gives the Bob one more way to chip away at you ie questioning your interpretation (of the thing that he, BTW, didn’t understand in the first place). Plus lets other people see the Bob-ness in action, and may result in pushback to him, either directly or through rumblings in the company foodchain.

        This manager sounds awful. Reminds me of a line from an old tv movie, there was a Jane Seymour character who was demanding and unreasonable, when asked why she was like that said “it is not in my nature to be satisfied.” But with Bob, it also seems like he’s in the habit of negging and shifting requirements and nitpicking, possibly for cover because at the end of the day he has no idea what he’s doing.

        Job searching seems like the best course of option, especially with a Bob who is managed by a no-op ostrich who doesn’t want to hear about issues and won’t do anything about them anyway.
        Hang in there LW.

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        1. Lauren*

          Thank you. It’s tricky because he’s a big fan of going, “can we huddle (video call) for a second?” so none of it is in writing.

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          1. MJ*

            So after your video huddle, email him “to make sure I understood you correctly… Please let me know if I misunderstood anything. ” Every time. Yes, it adds work to your plate, but if he asks why you did/didn’t do sometime – well he didn’t correct you.

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    3. Observer*

      In the meantime, document your head off. I mean, everything he tells you to do, every time you give him information, everything. Because when (not if!) something goes wrong he’s going to try to make it your fault.

      And if you can open channels of communication with management that do not go through him, that might be a good thing, too.

      Reply ↓
      1. Lauren*

        Yep, he 100% will. What makes it tricky is that he’s a big fan of video calls so none of it’s in writing. After the “huddles” (video calls), I could start to say, “per our chat just now, A, B, C”, but that might make him angrier.

        Unfortunately I still have to go through him, but I could continue to loop in his boss (the ostrich) . But he would still push for video calls.

        Reply ↓
        1. Brunelleschi*

          I hear that, but it sounds like he’s going to be awful and angry no matter what. Better to cover your bum so there’s documentation when he moves the goalposts.

          Reply ↓
    4. CubeFarmer*

      I’m thinking back on a recent situation at my job, where my boss asked a horribly inappropriate question. I answered it, but a better tactic would have been to say, “I don’t understand what you mean.” and let her dig a hole.

      Reply ↓
  2. Just Trying To Function*

    Does anyone have any tips for getting a coworker to stop talking about politics, even when you agree with their politics? I know usually this no politics question comes up when you have different political views. However, I have a coworker who I am on the same page with politically. Before the US election, we did talk about politics because we were on the same side and felt the same way about the election. Now that it’s over and we are both worried about the future, he keeps bringing up his concerns with the incoming administration. I with his thoughts and concerns, but I can’t keep talking about them at work otherwise I will need to crawl under my desk and cry after every conversation. I keep Gently telling him that I can’t dwell on this at work, but he keeps bringing it up. What can I say to him to get him to stop talking about it?

    Reply ↓
    1. DivergentStitches*

      “I know we used to talk about this a lot before the election but I really need a politics break. Thanks!”

      Reply ↓
    2. Annony*

      Don’t be gentle. “I understand that talking about this helps you deal with all that is going on right now, but it is completely the opposite for me. I do not have the emotional bandwidth to talk about this at work or I won’t be able to do my job. I need you to find someone else for this. I cannot be your sounding board.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Richard Hershberger*

        This. Some people cope by talking about it. This merely stresses me more. If people want to talk politics, I will simply leave. It is not for me to tell them what to do, but this does not obligate me to participate, even silently. This probably works less well in a work context.

        Reply ↓
    3. The gourmet cupcake*

      Ooh, I’ve got a similar problem, but I only agree with half of his politics, and he’s my manager!
      I would also suggest being firm, telling him you are NOT open to discussing politics at work. Even though you’ve been gentle, he’s been steamrolling that boundary, so you might want to be firm now.
      After that, if he brings it up, you have two options, one, say something like “we’ve discussed this, Chaz, I am not open to discussing politics” or simply change the subject.

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    4. Dust Bunny*

      Be less gentle. Tell him you need a break from this and he needs to find another sounding board.

      (For the record, my department is all firmly on the same page and we don’t keep talking about it.)

      Reply ↓
    5. Blue Pen*

      You have to stop being gentle and say “stop talking about politics at work.” Or if you think others in your office don’t mind as much: “Stop talking about politics around me.”

      If he doesn’t stop after that, it’s “I’ve asked you multiple times now to stop talking about politics around me, please excuse me now,” and walk away from him.

      If that still doesn’t stop, then I think it’s time to loop in either yours or his manager to institutionally enforce this.

      I’m like you—and him—I understand why the incoming administration is causing a lot of anxiety and fear. Some people handle that in different ways, and it sounds like, for him, his anxiety needs validation. That’s not your job, and it’s not appropriate at work. I can understand a passing comment, but if he is making a point to come to you to unload his feelings about the election, then he has crossed a line and that line needs to be respected.

      Reply ↓
    6. Keeley Jone, The Independent Woman*

      You’ll need to be firm. “I’m taking an indefinite hiatus from discussing politics for my mental health, so I’m not talking about this with anyone”

      Not a work situation but my husband and I used to be avid daily news watchers. The day after Election Day I told him flat out, I can’t watch anymore for the foreseeable future. He is free to but I will leave the room. He’s respected it for the most part. I WFH so he’ll wait until I go into my office and put headphones on. I know he’d like to discuss things with me like we used to, and things creep up every now and then. But I have a very firm boundary that I will not watch it.

      It’s hard. Because I do care, I canvassed/phone banked in my swing state. I have always been politically engaged. But I also know if I’m going to make it through whatever is coming, I need firm and explicit boundaries. I don’t care anymore what the incoming administration says or does. It’s all the same hate and lies we’ve been hearing for years. I don’t need it in my life every day. I’ll keep fighting but I think I can do that without being immersed in the daily clusterfork.

      Reply ↓
      1. Blue Pen*

        Yes, I’m the same way. When I first learned who won the election, I said to myself that I will not let that man rob me of my life any longer. I remember being utterly consumed by the news from 2016 on; looking back, I’m sure it was a way for me to feel like I still had some semblance of control. That was a fool’s errand, and it got me nowhere. We’re essentially right back where we started, so I’m not going to do that to myself again.

        Reply ↓
        1. LaminarFlow*

          Same here. I cancelled my WaPo subscription when they decided not to endorse a candidate, and then I removed news apps from my phone when I found out who won the election. I don’t know how long I’ll stay out of the news, but the break has been refreshing. If/when someone in my professional or personal circle brings up politics, I straight up tell them that I can’t talk about politics for the time being, and then I change the subject.

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      2. Richard Hershberger*

        I am on a self-imposed news blackout for national political stuff. I also canceled my Washington Post subscription and let them know why. Fortunately, here in Maryland there is a newish online-only outlet, the Baltimore Banner, that keep me up on state news. It is also the only significant outlet in the state still in the news business. My local paper got out of that a few years back.

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      3. Csethiro Ceredin*

        I did the same thing, though I’m in Canada so of course am not dealing with anything like the same level of stress. I came to realize that even though I felt like I was bearing witness and that somehow that’s useful… it’s actually not useful. I have zero ability to change any of this and am just making myself sad and angry.

        I know several people here who also stopped listening to political/news podcasts, stopped watching the news, and so on. Even here it’s all over the front page every day and many of the headlines are upsetting.

        Virtual hugs and solidarity.

        Reply ↓
    7. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Be blunt & brief:
      “Please stop talking politics to me”
      and turn away from him, putting on headphones if you have them.
      Every time.
      If you respond once, he’ll be encouraged to carry on.

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    8. Observer*

      with his thoughts and concerns, but I can’t keep talking about them at work otherwise I will need to crawl under my desk and cry after every conversation. I

      Tell him this. Then *every time* he starts on politics again, just remind him that work is a “no politics zone” for you and change the subject to something work related.

      Reply ↓
    9. Rex Libris*

      “I know it may help you to talk about it, but I’ve found out that the only way I can cope is to just completely tune it out, so I need to bow out of any more political discussions.”

      Reply ↓
  3. Hello*

    After a rough day at work i randomly started sending my resume out on a job posting website. I didn’t even put a cover letter. Imagine my surprise when a company wanted to meet with me. The thing is I don’t feel qualified for the job. It would be a “next step” for me career wise but I feel like it is a huge step. It comes with a 25% raise. About 50% of the job I am currently doing. The remaining responsibilities I have some experience but no way could I do these tasks without some additional guidance or training. I’m not expecting to get this job but want to interview for the practice. Soooooo…. How do I handle the shortfalls? How do I ask about training without seeming like I need hand holding? How do I know if this is a good fit? Help!

    Reply ↓
    1. DivergentStitches*

      “I’m excited to learn to do X because I’ve not worked with it before but I’ve read Y and Z about it – can you give me an idea of what the training is like?”

      Reply ↓
    2. MaryAnn*

      You sound like a woman. No man would ever say that he’s not qualified for a job. They fake it till they make it. You’d cheat yourself out of the great opportunity with that thinking. There will always be some initial discomfort, and hopefully they will provide some training. Go to the interview with confidence. Make it known to them that you first Google and search the website and only then if you don’t find the answer do you bother them. Nobody wants to handhold! Good luck!

      Reply ↓
      2. Blue Pen*

        I understand this sentiment, and I don’t disagree, but there are certainly situations where “the next step” is too big a leap.

        If I’m someone who draws stick figures for a living and now entertaining the idea of painting the Sistine Chapel for my next move, that’s a gigantic step. And it’s not to say that you can’t succeed in the next role, but you also want to set yourself up well, too, and there’s no shame in looking for roles that allow you to progress to the next step while still mastering the middle ground in between before you go on to paint a Renaissance masterpiece.

        Reply ↓
        1. Hannah Lee*

          True, but don’t eliminate yourself preemptively before you’ve even had a chance to find out more about what the position entails.

          Ie don’t make the decision FOR the company before you’ve even had a chance to get enough info to decide for yourself.

          Reply ↓
    3. Kan*

      Don’t call it training, call it “onboarding” – and ask what their plans are, in the first 6 months, for “onboarding” the person in this role. Don’t lie about having skills you don’t have, but express interest and excitement about the “new challenges you’re ready looking forward to stretching into…”, maybe? Maybe those areas are the reason you’re looking to move into more responsible roles in your field?

      People routinely apply to jobs for which they do not have all the skills – how would anyone move up otherwise?

      Reply ↓
    4. I should really pick a name*

      Just go to the interview and find out.

      You might find out you’re not qualified, but you might find out you are.

      If you need handholding, don’t hide it. You don’t want to talk your way into a job that you’re not ready for.

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      1. JB (not in Houston)*

        Yes, this. Until you get to the interview, you don’t know how important to them those other parts are, what skill level they expect for you, what training they’ll have, etc. They saw your resume and asked you in, so they presumably think it’s at least worth talking to you about it.

        Reply ↓
    5. LadyMTL*

      LW, if it helps sometimes not having experience can be seen as a good thing, because you can be trained / onboarded ‘their way’.

      When I started at my current company I applied for a position in a different department after about 18 months, despite having zero experience. I figured “what’s the worst that can happen? They’ll at least know that I’m interested.” Lo and behold I not only got it but it’s been almost 16 years and I’m still here. I was basically a blank slate, they gave me all the training I needed. So you never know!

      Reply ↓
      2. Caramel & Cheddar*

        This — even if you have all the experience in the world, you don’t have experience at their company and they probably do things at least a little bit if not a lot different from doing the task at another company. Everyone needs to be onboarded properly to a company’s way of doing things, experienced or not.

        Reply ↓
      3. Rex Libris*

        This. I’m not exactly in the corporate C suite, but I do hire people, and I’m usually 70% focused on soft skills, and 30% job skills. I want someone who has enough background knowledge to speak the same language and pick things up quickly, but other than that I can train them in what the job requires. Mostly I want them to be easy to work with, not cause drama, and generally increase rather than decrease the net positive energy.

        Reply ↓
    6. Blue Pen*

      I would take the interview! If it’s too advanced or not something you’re ultimately interested in taking on right now, the interview is the place to learn that.

      But I would also remind you that one company’s position (and expectations for that position) might not be the same as what your current company expects or what you even expect the job will be. One company’s “director” position might not actually be as advanced as you think. I remember going on an interview for a director position last year with a job description that read pretty closely to what I do now as a “non-director.”

      Reply ↓
    7. SansaStark*

      I did this exact same thing and was VERY up front in the interview about the pieces that would be new and I’d need guidance on. I was really just there for the practice and to hopefully make a good impression for when something else came along……but they loved me, I loved them, and now I work there in this role where I’m thriving. They appreciated my candor about the responsibilities that I’d need some guidance with and have been wonderful in that regard. They were happy that I needed the guidance in those areas so they could train me their way and I wasn’t coming with old, bad habits.

      So my advice is to be candid about the “shortfalls.” You’re there to see if it makes sense for you all to work together. If it does, the shortfalls will be things that they’ll be happy to work on with you. Maybe come prepared with an idea or two on how you can work with them to address them.

      Even if it doesn’t work out, that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have applied, etc. If they reached out to you, it means that you’re doing something right!

      Reply ↓
  4. my cat is prettier than me*

    My employer just switched up our health insurance again and its awful. We’re doing this thing called ICHRA, where we don’t have a single insurer for the whole company, rather we have access to a bunch of different plans from several different insurers.
    My deductible is doubling, my OOP maximum is going up 5x, and my prescriptions will now cost $15/each instead of being free. I tried to find a plan that was similar to what I have now, but the premiums would have been 6x as expensive.
    My fellow employees are angry, and I am in particular since I have a few health conditions and take a lot of medication.

    Reply ↓
    1. MaryAnn*

      Sadly in the US we have to change jobs when the insurance sucks because that’s part of compensation package. There is nothing else you can do.

      Reply ↓
      1. my cat is prettier than me*

        Yeah. One of the reasons I was hesitant to leave my current job was that the insurance was really good. Now that that’s not the case, I’m going to amp up my job search. I’m just worried I won’t be able to get the same level of PTO if I switch to a new place.

        Reply ↓
        1. MaryAnn*

          You can totally negotiate the PTO. That’s the easiest thing to negotiate. Wait till you are offered a new job, and when negotiating a salary, throw in the PTO request too. You can also try Higher Ed – amazing PTO and usually great health insurance. Plus a tuition reimbursement for you and your family.

          Reply ↓
          1. Beleaguered L&D*

            Has anyone successfully negotiated for more PTO? Everywhere I’ve ever worked has said categorically that there is an established structure for PTO and they can’t make exceptions.

            Reply ↓
            1. Tradd*

              I asked for a couple more days as part of a raise earlier this year. I was told that handbook says X and they can’t go around it as our state (I’m in the US) law says that if handbook lays out PTO policy, it has to be followed for everyone. We get 10 days up to 5 years, then 15 days.

              Reply ↓
            2. JM*

              I negotiated PTO in the private sector and then, shockingly to me, when moving from the private sector to the federal government. Generally I’d agree that was on the easier side to negotiate vs pay. I wouldn’t stop asking if I were you, it can’t hurt. (not sure if this is industry specific either. I’m in/adjacent to engineering)

              Reply ↓
            3. Not your trauma bucket*

              I’ve done it. Pretty easily got an extra week. They bumped me to the next tier of tenure for PTO. Now, that meant I wouldn’t get an increase when I hit that tenure, but I could live with that.

              Reply ↓
            4. Hlao-roo*

              Yes, I have successfully negotiated for an extra week of PTO in the private sector. This was at a company that had an established structure for PTO and they were able to make an exception for me. (I was fully prepared to walk away from the offer and keep searching if they were not able to give me more PTO.)

              Reply ↓
            5. Quinalla*

              I have! I worked at my first job for 13 years. For my current job, I normally would have started 2 weeks (ugh, this now 3 weeks), then 3 weeks after first year, then 3.5 weeks basically at five years, and so on. I already had 3 weeks of PTO and wanted more, so negotiated for the five year amount since it was more than I had (plus we get some sick days and a couple more holidays at my new place where before PTO was inclusive of sick days) and seemed fairly reasonable and there was no issue.

              I think the more experience you have, the more this is negotiable. You know folks starting out C suite positions don’t get the crap 1st year PTO that others get, so you can likely negotiate without issue if you have 5+ years experience and try to negotiate anyway even if not.

              Reply ↓
    2. Hotdog not dog*

      My current job no longer offers health insurance. We get a stipend that comes nowhere close to making insurance affordable. (Yes, I’m looking, but the stipend plan seems to be gaining popularity in my area.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Parenthesis Guy*

        If your company is over 50 people and they’re not offering an “affordable” ICHRA, then you can deny the ICHRA and they get in trouble.

        Reply ↓
    3. Rara Avis*

      My employer said that both options they offer came back with 50% increases for 2025, so prices are skyrocketing across the industry.

      Reply ↓
      1. my cat is prettier than me*

        HR said our company would be increasing our premiums by 60%, but I would have taken that over what we’re getting for 2025. The price of my prescriptions going forward adds up to 100% of my current premium.

        Reply ↓
    4. Ann O*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this—insurance changes like these can be really tough, especially with chronic health needs. Be sure to use the ICHRA administrator or a benefits expert to help you find the best plan. There might be options you’ve overlooked.

      Also, talk to HR and share how this change is affecting you and ask if they have additional resources or reimbursement options. If coworkers are also struggling, consider respectfully voicing concerns together.

      You can also consider asking for a salary adjustment to offset the costs. Frame it as a retention discussion and highlight your contributions to the company. While it’s true that companies can’t adjust salaries for everyone in response to changes like this, they’re often willing to quietly make accommodations for their top talent to retain them.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hannah Lee*

        There may be other options, add-ons, like HSAs or reimbursements that are only available for high-deductible plans that are intended to offset the increases. Even if they are things you wouldn’t have taken advantage of before, they may make sense now, or at least offset some of the pain of the new plan.

        I’m the benefits admin for my company, who sources and compares the plan options and recommends them to the owners … and I am really dreading that process for the coming year. Our current plan in theory has decent coverage, but their claims approval, benefits coordination, can be a real hassle (and woe be to anyone on the plan who has an out-of-network emergency and is taken by ambulance anywhere … boy-howdy are those charges crazy) But I think the landscape, offerings have gotten much worse since last spring and it’s going to be painful all around, even with the company paying 75% of the premium and the owners trying to choose decent coverage.

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      2. my cat is prettier than me*

        They’re also contributing different amounts of money to each of our premiums. With my health conditions, they offered me $400/month. My much older coworker without health conditions is receiving $900/month.

        Reply ↓
        1. Parenthesis Guy*

          Employers aren’t able to offer different allowances based on health conditions. They can, however, do so based on age. It’s up to three times as much based on age. So, if the youngest employee gets $300, the oldest can only get $900.

          Reply ↓
    5. Parenthesis Guy*

      I’m a bit confused here. An ICHRA means that your employer puts money into an account and then you can pick any individual plan on the marketplace (or something else eligible) that you’d like. In other words, you’d be doing the picking and not your company. Is that what you mean when you say, “rather we have access to a bunch of different plans from several different insurers”?

      Presuming that you are in fact on an ICHRA, I’d encourage you to look into affordability. Basically, your ICHRA needs to be large enough so that you can pay for the lowest level Silver plan without taking up a certain percentage of your income. If it’s less than that, there are certain things that you can do.

      But yeah, insurance is expensive and it’s amazing how little a $10k ICHRA does for you.

      Reply ↓
      1. my cat is prettier than me*

        We’re using a company called Remodel Health as a middleman, and they only offer plans from certain insurers. My current plan is with UHC and has a $1250 deductible and $1250 OOP, and I pay around $100/month and nothing for my prescriptions. I looked closely at all of the new options and a plan with a similar deductible/OOP max would be at least $600/month.

        I couldn’t find a plan with an OOP maximum of <$5k with premiums under $400, which I just can't afford. After looking at every single option, I went with the "comparable" plan the software suggested, with an $80/month premium, $2.5k deductible, and $6k OOP. All of my prescription will now be $15/each.

        Reply ↓
        1. Juanita*

          Well… $100 per month is very unusual. I don’t have hard evidence on this, but in my field (which is known for good benefits) our insurance premiums range from ~$250-600 per month, depending on the plan you choose. Under $400 per month is usually only achievable with a very high deductible and a limited network. Not to say that this isn’t an outrageous change from your current norm, I too would be frustrated. (Curious if others agree, or if it’s my field that has unusually high premiums, I might be off on this.)

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        2. Parenthesis Guy*

          That’s really interesting. I thought the point of an ICHRA was for employers to get out of the insurance business altogether. Having a middleman sort of defeats the purpose. Not what I would have guessed.

          Your current plan was really good and really cheap. It seems to indicate your company wanted to offer you the best. Your new plan is reasonable also.

          I’m not sure job hunting is going to find you a better healthcare plan.

          Reply ↓
    6. 653-CXK*

      This year, CurrentJob is offering a second health insurance plan that costs less money per biweekly pay period ($90 versus the $130 I’ll pay in January, which is an $8 increase from the $122 I pay now), but a deductible that is almost six times more than the current – from $500 to $2,950 – for the same services.

      I prefer to stay with the low deductible, because the only services I use are the doctor, my CPAP supplies, and some specialists.

      Reply ↓
    7. InsuranceOptions*

      It sounds like they may have been subsidizing a lot of the costs for you, and maybe still are but not as much (I thought $15 drug copays were a thing of myths, or at least the 1990s). I pay over $1000/month for my covered prescriptions (I technically have tiers of $40/$60/$150/$250 but they don’t actually charge that way and I’ve had some copays go even higher- the insurance/PBM won’t explain why).

      If you’re comfortable doing so I would ask about what they’re paying vs you’re paying. You could also check out the ACA plans in your area to see if there’s a better option there; my last ACA plan was better than the employer plan I replaced it with and would have been cheaper but for the employer subsidy on their plan.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
      1. my cat is prettier than me*

        I checked out the ACA, and unfortunately there was nothing as good as what I have now without incredible expensive premiums. We had less than a week to pick a plan, and I’ve already selected mine. I can’t change it now.

        Reply ↓
    8. Yes And*

      From what you describe, I’d say the health insurer (and, more broadly, our godawful health care system) is to blame for this situation, not you employer. It sounds to me like they got a jaw-dropping increase on the expiring plan, and were faced with the choice between enormous extra expense or much worse insurance. Rather than make that choice on behalf of employees, they set up multiple plans. I’d guess that, in response to a menu of bad options, at least gave employees the chance to choose which flavor of bad was better for their situation. Not that that makes your position any better, but if it impacts your job searching decisions, it doesn’t sound to me like your employer was the bad guy here.

      Reply ↓
    9. crookedglasses*

      Ugh, yes. HR person here, and I’ve tangled with ICHRAs a tiny bit. I hate them. It’s just another way for companies to foist more costs onto employees under the name of “choice”. I remember a benefits broker excitedly telling me that ICHRAs are “the 401k of health insurance” (as opposed to a pension plan) and I wanted to tear my hair out.

      No helpful insights, just commiseration and confirmation that it is, in fact, a garbage set up.

      Reply ↓
  5. DivergentStitches*

    I am in a job frustration group on FB and recently they were discussing their problems getting a resume past AI. Like someone with a master’s degree being rejected for not having a bachelor’s degree. And then the company refuses to reconsider and AI is the final answer.

    When will this nightmare be over?

    Reply ↓
    1. MaryAnn*

      The nightmare is just beginning but the key is to lean into our human nature and network. Find a smaller company that still does interviews and hiring the old fashioned way. Let the giant corporations hire their robots.

      Reply ↓
    2. The gourmet cupcake*

      They put in an AI system to answer the phones, and now the customers who like to place orders over the phone are complaining to me. People, I was not consulted on this! This is two levels above me!

      Reply ↓
      1. Cabbagepants*

        Even humans pull this. My spouse had to get his high school diploma (from 1998) certified because his job required a high school diploma. His much-more- recent PhD was not considered an acceptable substitute.

        AI is just the latest manifestation of ancient burocratic shenanigans.

        Reply ↓
        1. Dropout*

          I would have failed that. I dropped out of high school to go to college. I have a graduate degree from an Ivy League school but am still officially a high school dropout.

          Reply ↓
    4. Ginger Cat Lady*

      It’s not just AI, about 7-8 years ago I was applying for a job that required the degree I have. The application had a dropdown list for you to choose the degree you have. The required degree was not one of the choices, so I just went with the closest. And got an automated rejection before even finishing the application for not having the required degree. That I have. But could not put on the application because their system only had 5-10 possible choices, and the required degree was not there.

      Reply ↓
    5. Sharkie*

      This reminds me of the story I heard on tik tok where a hiring manager was frustrated that no qualified canidates were applying for his job posting. He made a resume using his work history and applied to the job. He was auto rejected due to AI and a coding error on the website.

      Reply ↓
      1. Observer*

        He was auto rejected due to AI and a coding error on the website

        It wasn’t an AI error. It wasn’t even a “coding” error in the normal sense. It was a person who put an incorrect (and non-existent) credential on the list of requirements.

        And, to be honest, this is where I would *love* to see some genuine *reality based* AI to be developed. I would love to see a system that could flag this kind of stuff.

        Like:
        Do you really want a certification in a system that has been out of use for over a decade?
        Do you really need a certificate in X, when the job you are posting for actually uses X2V?
        Do you really need 8 years of experience for an entry level job?
        Why are asking for 5 years of experience in a product that has only been on the market for 1 year?

        The first 2 were what was in play with that mess. The last two extremely common issues that come up all the time?

        Reply ↓
    6. Ann O*

      You’ve got to fight AI with AI!

      ATS systems have been using AI for years to screen candidates, often rejecting applications that don’t play by their rules. But now the tables have turned—applicants have AI on their side too. The best way to beat an ATS? Use AI to optimize your application materials. Think of it as leveling the playing field: their bots vs. your bots.

      Reply ↓
    7. Procedure Publisher*

      I highly suggest anyone worried about this to follow a recruiter.

      I’ve personally found that recruiters offer up some of the best information about the various different ATSs out there. A lot of recruiters say they ignore some features of the ATS they use because it is not even helpful. Kristen Fife on LinkedIn is one that I found really helpful for understanding the process.

      Reply ↓
  6. Cj*

    if anybody from my organization reads is, it’s probably identifiable, but I’m not saying anything bad about it so I guess that’s okay.

    about a month ago we all got an email saying that an employee had decided to transition their employment with our firm, and had taken a job elsewhere.

    the email went on to say that the firm had decided to transition the employment agreements of three employees, and their names, and that their last day was a couple days ago. (in other words, they were fired.)

    I have never seen this phrased as transitioning employment or employment agreements before. is this new HR terminology? like I said, I don’t think it’s bad, just unusual.

    Reply ↓
    1. Apex Mountain*

      Yeah, sounds like they’re using a euphemism so they don’t have to mention anyone was fired.

      I worked at a place that sent out emails that referred to someone leaving (Being fired) as “graduating”. Pathetic

      Reply ↓
      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        We used to joke that a peer finally made bail or had been paroled. I’ve never seen official channels try it, thought.

        Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Great use of weasel words from your HR/leadership/whoever. If I read this, I would have assumed “transition” meant “going to another department” not getting fired, so in addition to being gross it’s also misleading. This is up there with “rightsizing.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Cj*

        that’s exactly what I thought when I initially read it, as we have several departments and locations. when they said when theie last day was I realized what they actually meant.

        Reply ↓
      2. Cj*

        yeah, that’s exactly what I thought when I initially read it, as we have several departments and locations. when it said when their last day was I realized what they actually meant.

        Reply ↓
    3. Massive Dynamic*

      It’s a conscious uncoupling. ;)

      Ours is usually “so-and-so is no longer with the company” = they were fired. But, better than one big place that I worked for where nobody knew when people either left or were fired… you just found out eventually at some point that they were gone. I made sure to send a goodbye email to a lot of folks a few days before I left there.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hotdog not dog*

      At my last company, people were “displaced”. “Transitioned” sounds like they’re trying to imply some kind of positive change.

      Reply ↓
    5. Jane Bingley*

      Honestly, I don’t think it’s any good. My workplace uses “moving on” regardless of circumstances, so there’s no weird stigma and most people have no idea whether someone is leaving, being laid off, or being fired.

      Reply ↓
    6. JFC*

      I’ve heard a few people at my company use this in the past year or so.

      There’s another one my boss uses: “sunsetting” an employee. It came up a lot this summer about someone on my team. She was not cut out for the job but also wasn’t doing anything that would be a fireable offense. (She was basically thrust into this position reporting to me and I didn’t have a say in her hiring). Whenever I told my boss that it wasn’t working out well, he would say we needed to talk about “sunsetting” her employment.

      Spoiler alert: She ended up leaving on her own for a job more in line with her new career path, so it saved us a difficult conversation.

      Reply ↓
    7. Seeking Second Childhood*

      There is one very specific very limited case where it might be valid.

      My very large employer spun off a small division. After a year or so it became obvious that a chunk of support function should have been included. Employees didn’t want to quit and take it as a new job, and last I heard mgmt was trying to find a way to move them in a way that they didn’t lose seniority and PTO accruals.

      Reply ↓
    8. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I haven’t come across exactly this but what grinds my gears is the characterisation of these kinds of decisions (layoffs, firing someone etc) as “we have had to”… as in, “a downturn in business means we have had to cut headcount by 20% across the business”. It’s a business decision, made by people at the top of the company. It isn’t somehow external or inevitable — even if you say market forces are external, it’s still a conscious business decision to make layoffs. Mind you I hide behind “have to” myself when I get those telemarketing, like “I’m not interested, sorry. … I said I’m not interested, I’m afraid I’m going to have to hang up”.

      Reply ↓
  7. ChelleD*

    Librarians, I would like your advice! I’m exploring a career switch to law librarianship and need to know what it will take to become a competitive candidate. I am open to working in a firm, but I’m really drawn to serving in a public law library or legal aid organization.

    I have a MLIS from 25+ years ago. After graduation I worked as a competitive intelligence analyst and manager for eight years for two large companies in the Northeast. In addition to producing intelligence and managing all competitor and customer research for my group, I used research skills, developed a collection, and assisted my team in using our resources and finding the info they needed. After that I was a non-profit fundraiser, later a fundraising trainer and coach. I’ve spent the past few years as a customer service manager.

    I’m taking an intro legal research course offered by my local law library association chapter and I’m really enjoying it. The job listings all require experience with Lexis, Westlaw and other resources so I thought about taking a legal research course at a university. What do you recommend as the best next steps to get up to speed?

    Reply ↓
    1. Law libraries are fun*

      Hi! I’m a law librarian at a university. (I was a lawyer before becoming a librarian, so my path is different than yours, but I think it’s a great profession!) Taking a legal research course at a university is a great first step (although I don’t know how feasible that is–Lexis, Westlaw, and Bloomberg are all super expensive, so they may not give you access as an auditing student). You could also look into taking the Intro to Legal Research course through the American Association of Law Libraries (AALL), which would have the added bonus of showing employers that you’re familiar with the largest professional organization.

      Your biggest issue isn’t going to be the research, exactly, but understanding some of the legal dimensions of the questions you’re asked. For example, if someone asks you for help finding information about contracts law, your answer is going to differ wildly depending on who the person is, what jurisdiction they’re in, and what they’re using the information for. The reference interview you do with the patron to gather that information will be familiar given your work as a librarian, but it will take some practice to get a feel for how their answers impact what resources you recommend.

      Fortunately, any half-decent workplace will work with you to let you shadow coworkers and work on practice research questions. Law librarianship as a profession is definitely looking to add new members, and it sounds like you have good experience (the customer research and intelligence analyst experiences will be very applicable!), so if I had to guess, you’ll make a strong candidate even without the legal research experience!

      Almost all academic law libraries, as well as many public law libraries, use LibGuides to create a curated list of resources. If you search for “basic legal research LibGuide law library” or “legal research basics LibGuide law library” you’ll find tons of resources; I’d especially recommend finding a LibGuide from the state where you’re working so you know where to find state court rules, state statutes, and recent case opinions from your state’s appellate courts.

      Reply ↓
  8. Tradd*

    This is a rant. I am at the end of my rope. I’m the customs broker that often posts. All of the overseas agents from one country are constantly arguing over everything. Their customers don’t like the format of the entry summary (US customs document) and want things changed. They don’t give a flying eff that we can’t change the format. I’m off between Christmas and New Year’s. Can’t wait. I’m going to go off on someone sooner or later. People are just being IDIOTS. The entry writer in my department was off a week around Thanksgiving. I just got caught up from that. Now he’s off today and tomorrow for something medical. I don’t have time to deal with the idiots. Now the people who send me docs (documents) on shipments are back to sending stuff very late when they’ve had them for several weeks, at least. I’ll be hauling files home to work on stuff ahead of being gone. Have to get everything possible done on clearances I have docs for before I leave. It’s always been this way. Just the industry. I spent the entire evening hiding in the bathtub last night with a book. I am so incredibly stressed right now. I have no patience for idiots normally, but this is way over the top.

    Reply ↓
    1. Tio*

      It’s a full moon or something. All of a sudden even some of our reliable suppliers have been screwing up their invoices and missing things, and it’s causing delays. PLus we have a few new suppliers who were not onboarded properly so they’re doing things the way they had been for DDP shipments, and they were not doing them well under DDP terms and don’t like our stringent document standards.

      In terms of your overseas agents, here are two suggestions:
      Helpful version: “We can’t alter a government form but I can set up some reports to deliver to you that might have the information in easier to read format” (Hopefully you have CargoWise or something that can auto deliver the reports)
      Cranky version: “Attempting to alter a government regulated form could be considered falsifying government documents and result in prison time”

      Enjoy your vacation!

      Reply ↓
      1. Tradd*

        I loathe DDP shipments. They don’t need reports. They want stuff formated different on the entry summary, like the actual cargo description being shown instead of what pulls from the tariff. They want the street number shown AFTER the street name for US addresses, as we do it opposite many other countries.

        Reply ↓
        1. Hannah Lee*

          It’s the arbitrary nature of it that’s probably the most maddening, right?

          You’re providing ALL the information they actually need, but they are inflexible about format, placement causing you to work, rework, create custom output that has to get sent back and forth. And likely aren’t explaining any reason WHY it has to be like that. Totally understand your frustration.

          Reply ↓
          1. Tradd*

            I input their numbers (shipment values, deductions for freight, insurance, etc.) in my system. The system spits everything out. There is nothing I can change. This other country I’m dealing with is notoriously inflexible. Import/export banking is still all paper based. The overseas counterparts send Fedex/UPS/DHL envelopes filled with paper documents I don’t need. Sometimes there are cases when the paper needs to be sent, but most of the time, NO! They don’t get it when I tell them I need a legible scanned copy and they can save their money!

            Reply ↓
    2. President Porpoise*

      Dude, I’m sorry. As I recall you’re with a brokerage firm rather than working as an internal compliance representative with an Importing company, right? Especially DDP, there’s not a lot you can do if your IORs are not giving good guidance to your overseas contacts – US customs law is just way less straightforward than most other countries. They may just genuinely not understand, even though many of the requirements are near universal.

      I’d expect a lot more DDP in the next year or so as US firms work to avoid customs duties – easier to pass them to the exporter.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tradd*

        I’m a chick, but thanks. Yes, I work as an actual broker clearing shipments through US Customs. I’ve dealt with DDP for years. Like Tio said, it’s a full moon. People have just started playing fuck fuck games. I don’t put up with it. I mean, who thinks you can alter the format of an official customs document?

        Reply ↓
        1. President Porpoise*

          Sorry! I use ‘dude’ a lot! It’s kinda gender neutral in my mind, but in real life it totally isn’t. Apologies!

          It’s crazy on the in-company customs compliance side as well – the potential for massive tariff increases + threat of port strikes + geopolitical instability + general regulatory change deluge + completely predictable outcome of understaffing and overworking the customs teams are all coming to a head at once. I hope you and Tio and any other customs workers have a really really restful end of year – customs work is unsung and under appreciated, but the work demands solid hard and soft skills that you can’t just hire off the street.

          Reply ↓
      2. Tradd*

        I’m a chick, but thanks. Yes, I work as an actual broker clearing shipments through US Customs. I’ve dealt with DDP for years. Like Tio said, it’s a full moon. People have just started playing f**k f**k games. I don’t put up with it. I mean, who thinks you can alter the format of an official customs document?

        Reply ↓
      3. Tio*

        The exporter will pay them, sure, but they are not gonna absorb that cost themselves. They will pass it on, just roll all those costs into the DDP price.

        Also, if you’re managing the freight, that’s not going to work, because liability has already passed to you. And for large companies, they’re not going to give up the huge discounts they get on bulk ocean freight lanes to have the supplier pay the tariffs that they’re just going to pass on.

        Reply ↓
        1. President Porpoise*

          Not sure you’re right on freight liability – that’s typically the shipper’s up to delivery on DDP incoterms. And while the exporter will absolutely pad their prices to absorb those costs, there’ll be a short term window – for importers who have suppliers on long term fixed price contracts with those terms – where the supplier just has to eat it. It just all depends on your sourcing model and commodity.

          Reply ↓
          1. Tio*

            Hi, I’m also a licensed customs broker, working directly for a retail importer of significant size. If you’re moving it DDP, yes it is still the supplier’s liability, what I’m saying is that booking freight under the importer’s name means that this has switched from DDP. Booking under the importer’s name gives you big freight discounts if you’re of a certain size, but then the terms change from DDP, and losing the massive freight gains in the name of making the supplier pay the duty under DDP that they’re just going to charge us anyway would not be sound business practice.

            Some retailers have contracts that lock in prices despite increases (I was told secondhand that Walmart did, but I don’t work there), but a lot of suppliers have learned from the 2017 tariffs. Many of them have clauses for things like this now, so assuming that you can pull these in with locked in prices is not a good assumption. I can already tell you that many suppliers will not be locked into the pre-tariff prices. This is resulting in a lot of retailers moving up and increasing purchases prior to inauguration, but even then, there’s a limit to how much and how fast supplier scan produce.

            Reply ↓
            1. President Porpoise*

              Interesting! I’m in a very different industry, in a very, very large global company – our contracts are often firm and long term and incoterms are set at the time of contract creation, along with roles and responsibilities for shipping. They shouldn’t (but, humans being fallible, often do) shift on a shipment by shipment basis, so contract/shipment incoterm mismatch is an area we are looking at to drive cost savings and reduce customs compliance risk (think EXWORKS for a highly regulated product we buy from a country where we have no legal presence – fun, eh?).

              The effects will still hit – but we’re not going to feel it as soon as a company importing produce or textiles.

              Reply ↓
              1. Tio*

                Our incoterms are also set in contract, it’s mostly the price that this would effect. So the contracts have the negotiated price in them, and that’s usually pretty from, but again a lot of suppliers learned from 2017 and have gotten smart enough to include clauses about tings out of their control like government actions. But also, even for some of the companies that didn’t, if you and the supplier fight over this and they don’t fulfill the contract – you’ll get some money back for failing to meet the contract usually, but you’ll also have empty shelves because now they’re not sending the product. It’s a very push-and-pull kind of balance on that, because the retailer does stand to lose something if we can’t get product.

                Reply ↓
  9. Emac*

    I posted this a while ago but late so I was hoping for more suggestions:

    How do you describe achievements at a job on a resume when the numbers don’t sound impressive? Or when you haven’t had any real achievements yet? I’m in a temp job that I’ve been doing since March, so I need to job hunt and this is my most recent relevant experience by several years, so I need to include it.

    I’m a program coordinator for a grad school program, specifically the clinical education part of it. All I can think of to say are more soft skills type achievements that sound insincere when I try to add them. Then if I try to add numbers, they just don’t sound impressive enough to add.

    Here’s what I think I’ve done well:
– got up to speed very quickly
– prioritized tasks while assisting to coordinate multiple courses at once (if I add numbers, it’s up to 5 at a time, which doesn’t sound like that much though it feels like it is, or 3 cohorts of up to 75 students each)
– took initiative to get ahead on projects
– managed main email inbox for clinical education program, communicating with students and clinical partners, and knowing when to escalate emails to faculty
– prepared reports (in Excel, do I add that?) with tight turnaround times
– supported the re-accreditation process

    I can’t think of specific achievements for any of those – I really haven’t been there long enough to have measurable outcomes.

    Reply ↓
    1. A non-mouse*

      What was the result of the things you listed? For example, what did getting up to speed “very quickly” enable you to do that the average person could not do? Can you give an example of taking initiative on projects – what exactly did you do and what was the result of the project(s) you took initiative on? How much time did you save the faculty by “knowing when to escalate emails to faculty”? That sort of thing. That helps add some “oomph” to your accomplishments for this job.

      Reply ↓
    2. ecnaseener*

      Those numbers seem decently impressive to me, without knowing how much work is really involved in the tasks. Keep them!

      “took initiative to get ahead on projects” is kind of meaningless, can you make it more concrete? If not, I’d cut it or replace it with the actual projects.

      For the general issue of not feeling like you have enough achievements to list, one trick is to imagine someone who sucked at your job and explain the difference between you and them. (Which you’re doing with some of these!)

      Knowing when to escalate questions to faculty is good, but it wouldn’t be my preferred focus – it makes me think you’re only entrusted with the simplest questions. If you handle any questions with some complexity to them / exercise professional judgment / provide nuanced instructions, I’d focus there.

      Reply ↓
    3. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      I’m not in academia so grain of salt, but can you be more specific about what coordinating courses involves? Can you add some detail about how you took initiative and how getting ahead on the projects improved the outcomes? What practices do you use to manage the main email inbox that’s particularly good? Has anyone commented on the speed or clarity of your responses? Do you have a low error rate for directing emails to the right people? Dig in and talk more about how you did these things that was effective rather than just what you did.

      Reply ↓
    4. Fluffy Fish*

      You don’t need numbers. I think that commonly trips people up thinking they have to assign #’s or $ to things because so often that’s what they see as examples. That only works in certain industries.

      The things you list are achievements and are perfectly fine to put on a resume.

      Reply ↓
      1. Fluffy Fish*

        Def build out more substance to them – Prepare reports often with tight timelines – 100% on-time success rate for completion with no errors.

        But it doesnt need to be complete 10 reports with tight timelines – that doesn’t mean anything.

        Reply ↓
    5. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      5 classes at once is a full load for most professors.
      3 cohorts of 75 students is 225 students — which is every student in a good-sized speciality program. Even if its a core program, it’s still a significant number.

      Reply ↓
    6. WorkerDrone*

      I’m in higher ed staff/administration and all of this seems completely normal for the field, but might be tricky if you’re looking for jobs outside higher ed.

      got up to speed very quickly
 – actually a huge deal for departments hiring. Try phrasing it like, “Assumed mastery of all duties within 1 month of hire” or something like that.

      prioritized tasks while assisting to coordinate multiple courses at once (if I add numbers, it’s up to 5 at a time, which doesn’t sound like that much though it feels like it is, or 3 cohorts of up to 75 students each)
 – coordinating 5 courses is great! That’s a great number for higher ed. It isn’t low. 3 graduate cohorts of up to 75 students a time is a LOT for one grad coordinator. Again, a great number for higher ed.

      took initiative to get ahead on projects
– this you can quantify. You took initiative to work through grad applications early, for example, which meant the spring recruitment period went smoother and faculty committees had more time to review applications themselves.

      managed main email inbox for clinical education program, communicating with students and clinical partners, and knowing when to escalate emails to faculty
– in academia this would be self-explanatory and not need any numbers.

      prepared reports (in Excel, do I add that?) with tight turnaround times
 – I would add in excel and be specific about what kind of reports and what times. Preparing a report on 120 incoming applications within a day or two, for example, would be impressive.

      supported the re-accreditation process – be more specific for academia, (like, how specifically did you support it) but this would also be pretty self-explanatory. That’s a pain-in-the-ass process to go through and support and most departments would understand it’s a lot of work.

      Reply ↓
    7. The Prettiest Curse*

      You can add detail to your email inbox item by saying roughly how many emails that inbox gets every day and the approximate response time. If you have implemented a specific system for email (flagging, categorising by colour coding etc.), then mention that too.

      Reply ↓
    8. Mad Scientist*

      I think if you could get more specific about the tight turnaround times, and potentially mention the average number of reports per week / month / whatever makes sense (especially if it was more than others were able to do in the same timeframe), that would help! Something along the lines of “prepared X reports per week with an average turnaround time of Y, greatly exceeding the department-wide standard of Z”

      Reply ↓
    9. LaminarFlow*

      Have you tried having ChatGPT analyze your resume? I was recently feeling the same way you are feeling, and since I work in AI, ChatGPT is very top of mind for me.

      I threw my resume into ChatGPT for analysis, and I was quite pleasantly shocked at the result. Give it a go, and see what happens. You might find different ways of presenting the same info that make it seem more impactful to the reader.

      Reply ↓
    10. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

      I don’t know exactly what you do, but “3 cohorts of up to 75 students each” sounds pretty chonky to me!

      Do you think it’s possible you’re sort of taking your own skills for granted, in a “water to a fish” kind of way?

      Reply ↓
  10. CherryBlossom*

    I was here a few weeks ago about The Dishware Committee. (TLDR: We need new dishes for the employee kitchen. The CEO and CFO are personally invested and end up as bottlenecks). Update: We’re still having meetings about plates and cutlery, and no choices have been made. Annoying, and a lot of extra work for me, but ultimately out of my hands.

    As you can imagine, that level of c-suite involment and burocracy is in everything the company does (The holiday office party is being nitpicked as we speak). There’s a few other things I can’t stand that I won’t get into here, but that are equally driving me batty. I’m currently job hunting, but it’s rough out there and I can’t afford to quit without something lined up.

    So, people who were/are stuck in jobs they couldn’t stand, what coping strategies do you use to keep yourself sane? I’ve been trying to keep my life outside of work as fun and fulfilling as possible, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m increasingly miserable 40 hours a week.

    Reply ↓
    1. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      I have no advice because I never figured that out myself at my miserable job, but sending good job hunting vibes and infinite sympathy. It won’t be this way forever!

      Reply ↓
    2. Tinamedte*

      I sometimes manage to put some distance between myself and the job, by looking at trees on my way to work and think “they’ve been here for years and years, and will be for many more, and none of the ridiculous stuff at work matters a single little bit to them” (I find it comforting for some reason) and then when I’m at work I can laugh at the stupidity of it all, as if it didn’t affect me.

      But on some days, it’s just hard.

      Thinking about it, I think the biking itself helps to lift my mood. If you have that option, or can walk to work.

      Reply ↓
      1. CherryBlossom*

        I used to go a lovely park nearby during my lunch break, and that did help a bit! But now that temps have reached below freezing in my locale, that particular options is closed off to me :(

        Reply ↓
        1. Tinamedte*

          I’m in the north of Europe and bike all year around, come snow or rain or ice, so I’d love to know more why temps below freezing would make a walk in the park impossible. No snark! :-) Just curious to learn, sorry if I can’t phrase it well.

          Reply ↓
          1. CherryBlossom*

            Commenting rules are that you should take people at their word when they say the can’t do something. I’d kindly ask you to take me at my word and leave it at that.

            Reply ↓
          2. Seeking Second Childhood*

            It isn’t uncommon for US parks to close all or some pedestrian trails because there’s no funding to clear snow and ice.

            Reply ↓
          3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

            Large swaths of the northern half of the US also see a lot of snow. A lot. Like 50cm at a time, meters of accumulation over the season.

            Reply ↓
    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Inner David Attenborough voice so you can laugh about it.

      “Here we see the dishware committee in a full-throated meeting. The CFO is challenging the silverback CEO for dominance over the troop. Observe how they each take it in turn to expand their throat sacks and bellow. In another context, this would be interesting music, but for the juvenile members of the committee, this can only mean extra work in procuring food and preparing the nest each evening.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Lellow*

        When I was trying to leave a job I actively hated, I calculated my per minute pay. So I could work out precisely how much it cost my boss for him to explain back to me things I had just told him.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ally McBeal*

        Frankly I just find that depressing. At an admin job where I was making $50k and the entry-level research people made well north of $100k, I once had to stay late (only by an hour or so, but it’s the principle of the thing) to stand behind the CEO and watch him revise an email several times.

        Reply ↓
    5. WellRed*

      I think you are on the right track because one thing I recommend is to just not care. Like with the dishes. It’s taking forever and you may never order them? Oh well!

      Reply ↓
    6. Little Miss Helpful*

      Similar to the imaginary documentary suggestion, sometimes I write a screenplay in my head, cast the characters, etc.

      Reply ↓
    7. HannahS*

      Sometimes, I tell myself, “this is my job right now.” Like, as an acceptance statement.

      Sometimes my job is what it’s supposed to be. Solving problems! Answering questions! Teaching and mentorship! Getting stuff done!

      And sometimes my job is to do redundant paperwork. Sometimes my job is sit quietly in meetings while other people explain the same thing again to the same people for the fourth time in the hope that they’ll finally get it, but they won’t.

      Maybe right now, your job is to listen to the CEO natter, not to competently run a department. It makes it easier if you can shrug and accept it, or drop your end of the rope (i.e. try less, have less emotional investment.)

      Reply ↓
    8. Busy Middle Manager*

      Mentally reframe because your resume can only tell the truth and your #s are good.
      When I used to read resumes, I was often more bothered by the opposite of you. A person four years out of school with lines like “increased sales by a million” or “increased efficiency 40%”

      All I thought was, if the change was so obvious and easy, why didn’t no one do it before? The unrealistically positive #s didn’t endear me to the candidate, it led me to wonder what was wrong with the company!

      At a practical level, I was hiring to fix problems worth a few thousand dollars here and there, so “small” accomplishments on the resume were a perfect fit. I wouldn’t here “oh that’s not worth doing”

      Reply ↓
    9. Double A*

      This is why I always say sitcoms are funny to watch but would generally be miserable to live. Yours sounds like a sitcom. Can you deadpan an imaginary camera now and then?

      Reply ↓
    10. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

      I would also say – keep a journal. You won’t remember all the gloriously batshit details as clearly in years to come, and you can store up some rich fodder for your future novel. Or just stories to tell over cocktails :-)

      Reply ↓
  11. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    OMG, I almost get held in contempt of court yesterday but totally worth it.

    Child support case. Client is looking for work diligently. Working with the court ordered program as required. But we know these things take time. She’s been at it a whole month, but no job.

    The judge literally said, well did you go into any businesses and drop off your resume. My client, yeah, they told me to apply online.

    The judge then said — I kid you not — well did you follow up with them after you applied online. Did you go back and say I applied, is there anything you need from me? You have to follow up in person. They get a lot of resumes, the name that keeps coming up over and over is who gets hired.

    The look I was giving the judge. Like ma’am things have changed since you applied for a law firm job 30 years ago. These are minimum wage jobs, they take the first 30 people who don’t look like they would steal from the company. They know someone is interested in the job, they applied. They aren’t going to hire someone who bothers them and disrupts their day.

    I told client to check with the court ordered program. If the program says do it, she has to do it. But hopefully they will realize this is bonkers and we can take that back to the judge.

    Thank you AAM for teaching me how crazy this is — even if it had got me in trouble.

    Reply ↓
    1. Kesnit*

      I was about to say “I can’t believe the judge said that.” Then I remembered some of the judges I have appeared in front of…

      Reply ↓
    2. fine-tipped pen aficionado*

      Truly we need to take all the unearned respect and deference we give to judges it and sprinkle it over the folks doing jobs that actually contribute society for little pay and less respect.

      Reply ↓
    3. Lady Lessa*

      Could you encourage your client to choose the jobs to be a pest with are the ones least likely to hire them. Or the ones where she is clearly not qualified for (unless working toward something where she might want later).

      Reply ↓
      1. NotRealAnonForThis*

        Oh, I’m trying to remember the details…

        …but we got a completely BONKERS cover letter once for “any open position”, and in reading the cover letter the “applicant” made it clear that she was being forced to do this by the judge in her disability case. Basically she was applying for any open position, and laid out what exact qualifications she had (between “fully qualified” and “I don’t even know what I don’t know”), and what accommodations she would need in order to do pretty much any sort of work in an office. And requesting that any decline for her “application” be made in writing, as she was being forced to prove that she was not employable.

        I was at that point a dumb, twenty-one year old, university student who was hungover more often than not during that summer…and even I knew better than to provide that kind of cover letter. I do wish I’d written down some details, as its 25 years later and that’s all of what I remember about it.

        Reply ↓
      2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        Client has to get a job or they will impute income. So we want her to get hired, not show the judge that judge is completely out of touch with modern hiring practices.

        Reply ↓
        1. Lady Lessa*

          Good Luck with the balancing act.

          While I’m sure that you are skilled with covering the bases, does your local community college have a career/job center that might help? Mine just wanted me to be in the local community.

          Reply ↓
    4. Bast*

      Bet that’s the same judge who 10 years ago was still calling female attorneys up to the bench and asking them if they were REALLY attorneys. May not be surprising to some, but YES apparently it is news to some judges (who usually look like they’re about to keel over at any moment) who have not heard that women can be attorneys.

      Reply ↓
    5. JFC*

      Ugh, I hate hearing this.

      We had a woman come to our office a couple of months ago looking for work. Completely unannounced, no resume, no nothing. Literally just walked in the door, said she was looking for data entry work and asked if we had any positions available. It was incredibly awkward because A) our company has only a handful of data entry positions, and none at our location, B) all applications must be done online and C) none of us who were in the office that day have hiring authority for such a role.

      She actually told us she was going around town, walking into businesses and doing the same thing. She complained she was being told to apply online. She was probably in her 50s, so likely not new to the workforce. I felt bad for her for having either bad advice or an old school way of thinking.

      Reply ↓
      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

        > She was probably in her 50s, so likely not new to the workforce

        Probably she’d worked at the same place since that was more common, and then something like a layoff happened and suddenly here you are 30 years in the future.

        Reply ↓
    6. Just need a hand shake*

      I had an amazing FOH manager when I was a server, who made it a point to trash resumes when parents would drag their teens into the place to apply for serving/bussing jobs. He pointed to the “Apply Online” sign, explained to the parents that he didn’t hire people who couldn’t follow instructions, ripped up the resume, then chucked it in the bin at the hostess stand. Any time it happened, we were all giddy for the entire shift. If I could bottle and drink the expressions of the parents when he did that, I would never be thirsty again.

      Reply ↓
      1. Kesnit*

        I understand where the manager was coming from, but I feel bad for the teenagers. From the phrasing you used, it sounds like the manager knew it was the parents – not the teens – who weren’t following instructions. But the manager still made the teens stand there and be talked down to.

        Reply ↓
        1. Just need a hand shake*

          It was very clearly directed at the parents. And nothing stopped them from going home and applying online afterwards.

          Reply ↓
    7. Mesquito*

      its wild to me that judges are still allowed to require you to do something you can’t control, like get a job! it’s like requiring you to win the lottery or find true loves kiss by midnight – it’s literally just not something you can simply comply with

      Reply ↓
      1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

        It is child support and my client does need to support the kids. The requirement to get a job is not the problem. It’s just the time required to get one. My client is doing everything right, working with the court program and another program. Applying for lots of jobs for which she is qualified (so clearly not applying to jobs she has no chance with just to say hey I’m looking) but it takes time.

        Reply ↓
    8. In My Underdark Era*

      haha, I don’t have anything nice to say about the judge in this case. but I will say thank you for the work that you’re doing with your client!

      Reply ↓
        1. Pastor Petty Labelle*

          15 years and counting. It has it moments. But when a client hugs you because you got the kid away from the abusive parent, it makes it all worthwhile.

          Reply ↓
    9. Busy Middle Manager*

      My heart goes out, I keep saying, the “best economy ever” and “white hot job market” narratives the financial media keep pushing are not just fluff, they have negative consequences and cause family fights and situations like this. Many out of touch people truly think it’s easy to get a job, or don’t get that just because a place says they’re hiring doesn’t mean they are actually hiring. Great time to job hunt! It’s especially frustrating because the same upper management instituting hiring freezes at their job and cutting expenses say the economy is good, implying it’s good everywhere else. As if they’re the only one taking these measures.

      Reply ↓
  12. CubeFarmer*

    I wrote in on the open thread several weeks ago about tips for becoming a manager. Thanks for everyone’s advice.

    Here’s something I did not think that I would encounter. How are you introverts dealing with being a manager? I find that I cannot simply sink into a solitary task as much anymore and use it to recharge. What brought on this question is that I caught myself doing a task that I actually needed to delegate to my employee because I didn’t want to talk to anyone in that moment. Of course, this is not the way.

    How do you all manage being “on” while at the same time finding the moments to recharge yourself?

    Reply ↓
    1. ashie*

      Find ways you can NOT be on, in little chunks. Like, when you’re doing payroll or writing an evaluation, close the door and don’t check your email. The world will still be there when you emerge.

      Reply ↓
    2. Jaunty Banana Hat I*

      If you have the ability to close your door or set certain times of the day aside for “focus” work (aka: Do Not Interrupt unless the building is on fire), that might give you some recharging time. Or perhaps picking a certain point in the day where you do most of your delegating/face-to-face managing?

      Basically, give yourself times that you’re explicitly NOT “on”, or times where you are, so that you have some regular intervals you know you can recharge.

      Reply ↓
    3. Caramel & Cheddar*

      I try to schedule my “on” times. I’m more productive on solo work in the afternoon, so I try to have meetings in the morning, for example, because it makes a less productive time of day for me more productive and allows me more time to focus on my own later on.

      Reply ↓
  13. TsAndPs*

    Looking for stories of letting a colleague fail at work.
    George on my team was hired with no experience in the field of data analytics, which is 80% of what our office does. My job is as a data advisor, but I’m not a manager. I’m supposed to tell people what holes exist in their plans and how to navigate around limitations.
    George has his first project that’s all his and it’s VERY data-light. He’s struggling. He doesn’t have Excel experience. He couldn’t talk about the difference in two summary numbers when the numbers were literally on the screen in front of him (“let me get back to you on that question” when all was needed was “oh yeah it decreased by 2k”). Some people in the office may struggle with regressions or coding. George struggles with the difference between mean, median, and mode.
    My job has been to help him; I’ve been told it’s his responsibility to initiate when she has questions. It’s becoming clear to me through watching George’s patterns that he doesn’t know where to start and this will likely end with the due date coming and George making excuses for why he couldn’t do this very simple task (he has done this on minor projects before). He’s been given about 1 month to do what anyone else in the office could do in a few hours.
    I need to let him fail so it’s clear what he can and cannot do in this role. I come from a helping profession so this is really hard for me to watch without stepping in to correct. Help?

    Reply ↓
    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      One of the things my dad (who had a side job teaching in his trade) told me is that when someone’s job is on the line, you can’t make them care or care more than they do.

      This definitely helped me when I was a trainer of new employees. Sometimes it’s kinder to everyone to let someone fail. (But it’s kindest to have an honest conversation about whether the role is right for them and what other options might be available.)

      Reply ↓
      1. TsAndPs*

        This 100% isn’t the right role for him. He’s said that when he left his last job, he applied for every open position he could find – it seems this office was the first to extend an offer, and out of desperation, he took it.
        I also think he may have a little bit of a misunderstanding of what it takes to get up to speed. Watching 1 YouTube video on data analytics will not make him on par with everyone else.

        Reply ↓
    2. Less Bread More Taxes*

      Since you are assigned the task of helping him, how are you doing that? He doesn’t know where to start, so how are you getting him started?

      I would walk him through a project piece by piece, not by telling him what to do, but by explaining your thought process when approaching a project. Things like, “executives will want to see how the price has changed, so we need to look at two things: price and time” will probably be helpful for him. I guarantee you that there are a lot of things that you do without thinking that he needs to be taught to think as well.

      Reply ↓
      1. WorkerDrone*

        The problem is, OP has also been specifically told: “I’ve been told it’s his responsibility to initiate when he has questions.”

        So it’s up to him to let OP know how to help him. It’s clear his manager wants him to be able to identify himself where he needs improvement, otherwise OP would not have been told that, so it’s actually not great for OP to go to him and walk him through this piece by piece.

        If anything, I can see OP saying something like, “Remember that I am here to help with this! If you run into issues, or have any questions, please reach out.”

        But beyond that, a specific aspect of helping him is by letting him come to OP, not the other way around.

        Reply ↓
      2. TsAndPs*

        The situation is frustrating because, despite offering support and clear guidance, George is not taking initiative on the project. I’ve set up opportunities for him to ask questions, which he will take advantage of, but he shows up unprepared, expecting me to do the thinking for him (he’ll say, “So here’s the data. What do you think?” to me with zero thoughts of his own). I’ve provided clear steps and examples of what I do to get started on a project, but he hasn’t made much progress in mirroring those or attempting them. I’ve also clarified early on with my manager that George is responsible for leading the project and should be the one reaching out with questions, not relying on me to do the work.

        Reply ↓
    3. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      You can’t handhold him through his entire career at this employer.
      It really is kinder to let him fail early so he can hunt for a new job that fits his skillset, before he becomes totally swamped and demoralised.
      If he hasn’t been there too long, he could even leeave it off his resume.

      Reply ↓
    4. Strive to Excel*

      It sounds like he has no data analysis experience right down to basic statistics. The kindest possible thing you can do is let him fail quickly so he can find a role that is more suited for him.

      The kindest thing his *manager* could do would be to sit him down and tell him bluntly “You are lacking the skill sets in statistics, Excel competency, and general data analysis you need to succeed, and you are not learning them sufficiently quickly to succeed in this office. How would you like to handle this.” And give him the option of quitting rather than firing.

      Reply ↓
    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I’m afraid you are just going to need to be uncomfortable for a while, as you’re right that you need to let him (succeed or) fail by his own efforts, which as you say goes against all your instincts to jump in and help. I think you just have to detach yourself from the situation a bit and actually – you are not really helping him if you’re enabling him to struggle on a little bit longer but he ultimately won’t succeed – and letting him fail is actually more of a help to the team as a whole, and to your colleagues, who deserve to have someone competent to work with. I wonder how this guy got hired, I bet he’s done some kind of boot camp or other online certificate without really having a clue, and the hiring manager got the wool pulled over their eyes – time to let the wool fall away!

      Reply ↓
    6. LaminarFlow*

      George is going to need to seek outside help. Since you want to help him, have a chat about seeking outside resources, and tell him that you will follow up with some resources (links to tutors/programs). Be explicit in telling him that he will need to guide his own learning.

      You aren’t his direct manager, but he’s creating more work for you. So, tell his manager your concerns, and let his manager know that you plan to chat with George & give him resources. I would also let George’s manager know that I need to see X improvement in Y timeframe. If George follows through, way to go, George! If not, you have given George’s manager a relevant and documented data point that will help get George out of there.

      Reply ↓
    7. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Long ago we had a junior engineering aide assigned to tech docs department, instead of being fired from another group. This person’s role was to input minor edits from paper review copies, add information from the database she had previously maintained, print & circulate review copies, and file approved final copies.

      We had product managers reporting every time her missed deadlines delayed production. We had reviewers refuse to finish review # X+1 because half of what they’d already flagged got lost. We had a manager order us not to look anything else up for her– after which she stared at her PC long enough for the screensaver to turn on. Final straw was when we got a new oibrary filing cabinet and she was told to spread out the files to make a little space in all drawers…. and she moved files across drawer by drawer. Yes, instead of down to bottom then to top of next.

      Last I heard she was working food ervice and actually smiling again.

      Reply ↓
  14. The Green Lawintern*

    I don’t even know if this is a question or just a rant. I have a peer in my department that does similar work to me – think Teapot Glazing Manager vs Ceramic Mug Glazing Manager. And he’s completely incompetent. His judgement is terrible, he hasn’t completed almost any projects in the almost year he’s been here, and we are now seeing the client complaints start to come in. When he came on, I was told by our boss to guide him because I was the interim manager in the position. Not only has he ignored or somehow forgotten every piece of guidance I’ve given, but he’s also gone behind my back in multiple cases to assign work to my reports (he has none). We addressed that issue, but overall it’s just been extremely demoralizing to work with someone who can’t even do a basic process in our dept without screwing it up. On top of that, my supervisor has been painfully slow in addressing – he constantly gives out “global announcements” that are ignored, and just recently we had a “process workshop” to review what exactly my peer is doing wrong – for someone who has historically forgotten any such training within a week. I also keep getting put in the position of being the SME, but without any real authority to enforce it. When I report issues, my boss just reassures me to “let the process play out.” When I told him the other day that I was considering leaving over this (something I agonized over even telling him!) his response was to advise me to spend less time stressing out over it. But I can’t! I’m literally the one who had to create the materials for the workshop, at my boss’ request! I don’t know what to do. I like many aspects of my current job, but it’s been incredibly frustrating to see someone who’s so bad at the job just sort float along being bad and leaving a trail of chaos in their wake.

    Reply ↓
    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      It doesn’t sound like you have responsibility for his errors, so do as your boss says and just let him fail.

      Reply ↓
      1. The Green Lawintern*

        I think part of my frustration stems from the fact that he IS failing…but nothing happens as a result. It feels like the kind of failure my boss would consider sufficient to use to fire him is literally a “we are being sued” level of bad, and I just can’t see why it needs to get to that point.

        To your other point – I have no worries about taking blame for his issues, but I know for a fact that if he ever does get fired, I’m still going to be the one who has to do all the clean-up work. Ugh. I know the answer is probably just to get out.

        Reply ↓
  15. Fuller! Go easy on the Pepsi!*

    Sabotaging References.

    Have a verbal offer on a FT PM role (after 9-mos searching!) and my references are in play. I coordinated all of their availability with the hiring organization so they’d be available for the call.

    My previous boss, with whom I’m working with as a volunteer on a database project for the non-profit she’s at now, doesn’t want me to take the FT PM job. Instead she wants me to take a PT DB role so she can hire me for her PT DB role but that wouldn’t be until June and no guarantees on that either.

    During our project call this morning my previous boss said, “Well you know small non-profits are hard to manage. And you’ll be their first paid person. And you know that you prefer things to go your way and don’t like a lot of changes and chaos.” [exasperated]

    What’s more frustrating is that my previous boss is friends with the person hiring for the PT DB role. She’s interested in me and asked for references but didn’t provide a verbal offer. I don’t provide references without a verbal offer. My previous boss has already talked to the PT DB person about how great I’d be for the role.

    AND I know my previous boss likely missed the phone call from the FT PM role because we were working together this morning and that’s the time my previous boss said she had available to talk.

    Another reference (who has my back) said that I should contact the FT PM org and let them know that my previous boss reference could be problematic and why. I have (2) solid references to include this one and another one at the previous organization I was with.

    This is a first for me.

    Reply ↓
    1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      Have you had success in the past not offering references until you have a verbal offer? I’ve often seen reference checks happen for two top finalists to help determine which one is the best fit for the role. It depends where you’re applying but I’ll bet some organizations won’t have the flexibility in their hiring process to do that.

      Are you concerned your previous boss is screening calls from the FT PM reference checker? One missed call shouldn’t tank your candidacy with a reasonable company.

      But overall it sounds like she isn’t a great, reliable reference. Can you avoid giving her as a reference in the future, OR directly tell her something like (you know her best, so, whatever way you can ask her that she’ll be most responsive to) — “I think this job is a good fit for me. I am very interested in this job. If I list you as a reference, would you recommend me positively?” And if she waffles or says anything but a true and enthusiastic yes, don’t list her as a reference going forward. I don’t have any recommendations for whether you should contact the FT PM org about her or not—hopefully others do.

      Reply ↓
    2. Ally McBeal*

      Have you asked your previous boss directly about it? “I understand you would like me to take this part-time job in six months, but I really need to secure full-time employment *now*. Is there going to be any issue with giving Hiring Manager a reference for the FT PM role even though you want me to stay? If you don’t think you can give an unbiased reference, please let me know now so I can share this with Hiring Manager.” Put them on the spot.

      Reply ↓
    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      > AND I know my previous boss likely missed the phone call from the FT PM role because we were working together this morning and that’s the time my previous boss said she had available to talk.

      Wow, what a coincidence (!)

      Reply ↓
    4. Goddess47*

      Tell your previous boss that a ‘maybe’ job doesn’t pay the bills. Without a firm offer, in writing, with dates and compensation, etc, you need a job that pays real money. If she’s offended that you won’t take her word for the ‘maybe’ job, then that’s your answer and she can’t be trusted to give you a good reference.

      Call the new company and say that the reference you provided has commitments that will prevent her from connecting with them and to call [someone else] in their place.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  16. Singularity*

    I have a question about something that happened to me years ago now, and l’m reminded it of it because i currently have a colleague who is going through the same situation, but with complications.

    I work in public education, specifically in high school. When I got pregnant several years ago (before Covid), I informed my administration as soon as I could and filled out the paperwork for FMLA leave. That’s when I found out that it’s standard practice for teachers to find their own coverage during their leave.

    I was given a list of reliable, long term substitutes by the district and told to make calls and ask if they could cover my class during my leave.
    I was surprised by this at the time, since HR typically handled sub jobs and administration in particular usually would recommend certain subs to cover longer positions, but I did it and I found a sub with little problems and it all worked out.
    My question is: Is this common in other fields where people who take leave are responsible for finding someone to cover their work while they’re gone? In my colleague’s case, she’s having a problem finding subs, and none of the people on the short list she was given wanted to accept the job. The district and administration have told her that she’s still responsible for finding someone, so she’s begun to push back.

    I’m afraid that administration and HR are viewing her as difficult. She has less than 5 years of experience and I’m supposed to be mentoring her. I’ve given her the contact information of my long term sub, but she didn’t want to do it either!
    What’s supposed to happen in these cases? What does she do if she can’t find anyone to take the job before her leave starts?

    Reply ↓
    2. Hm*

      I think it depends on what “finding coverage” means. If it’s “identifying which team members are best suited to take over certain projects,” I feel like the person going on leave coordinates that (or at least that has always been the case everywhere I’ve worked). But if it involves hiring someone, then I think that’s absolutely the employer’s responsibility.

      Reply ↓
    4. Caramel & Cheddar*

      Is this common in other fields? I always assumed in the US that there just isn’t coverage for jobs that don’t require coverage, i.e. if you’re a marketing assistant and go on mat leave, they redistribute your work for twelve weeks across your coworkers rather than hiring someone to fill that need while you’re out.

      I’m in Canada and in my province, a teacher’s mat leave would get covered the same way as a lengthy illness and whoever is in charge of these things would find a Long Term Occasional (LTO) to fill the role for the duration. You wouldn’t have to find someone yourself.

      Outside of teaching, mat leave coverage is usually advertised like any other contract job where the hiring process goes through HR/the hiring manager/whoever is not the person going on mat leave. The postings will usually specify that it’s a mat leave coverage, presumably so people don’t get their hopes up that they can stay on longer (though sometimes they do if that person doesn’t come back from mat leave). These contracts are usually a year long.

      Reply ↓
    5. Elsewise*

      I’ve only seen this done in retail and food service, which I think tells you a lot about how employee-friendly and sustainable this practice is.

      Reply ↓
    6. Tuesday Tacos*

      This is not even common in public teaching. She is legally entitled to the leave whether or not she finds coverage. I suggest she tell her HR that she has exhausted possibilites and let them handle it.

      Reply ↓
    7. just a random teacher*

      Back when I was subbing, I got both of my long term sub jobs from principals after the teachers were unable to find coverage themselves and had to put it back on the principal. In one case, that principal then presumably had to network with pretty much everyone he knew and really stretch, because I wasn’t even on the sub list for his school district when he called me. (I assume he contacted the principals or other admins he knew in neighboring districts after striking out on his district’s entire existing list of [subject area] subs. He was looking for a unicorn with two endorsements willing to work at an alternative high school, so a particularly hard-to-fill placement.)

      Of course, I also got hired for my current (permanent) job after being cold called by a principal because I was on his district’s sub list (I’d never even subbed at his school!) and presumably came recommended by admin at one of the other schools in the district.

      I get why, ideally, a teacher should find their own long term sub (since if possible you want someone who will manage your classroom in a way that suits your overall teaching style while you’re out), but apparently it also normal for that not to work out and be pushed back on district admin in times or subject areas when subs are hard to find.

      I guess that she needs to make it clear to admin what she has and hasn’t tried so far, ask for suggestions who else to contact, follow up and document any leads admin gives her, and just keep looping back with “ok, still no sub”. If your area usually has enough subs to go around it may be that your admin really aren’t used to this happening and she’ll need to convince them, in which case a spreadsheet of who she has already asked and when they turned her down (with reasons when given) may help them see this as A Real Problem rather than Teacher Is Being A Problem.

      Reply ↓
    8. Subs*

      At every district I’m familiar with finding the sub is the responsibility of the school not the teacher. This is not normal.

      Reply ↓
    9. LaminarFlow*

      I work in tech, and I always have point people for when I am OOTO. I work on multiple projects at the same time, and it is standard practice to ask others on each respective project to cover for me when I’m out, and I repay the favor when they’re out.

      Reply ↓
    10. Double A*

      This is frankly not even common in education. I have never, ever heard of a teacher needing to do this. Sometimes, and perhaps often, teachers might have a *preference* of a sub they want simply from experience and request that person, but even then it’s not a guarantee that person would get the job even if they wanted it because a teacher is not responsible for finding and hiring subs!

      If she can’t find coverage what are they going to do, make her give birth during second period?? Do you have a union?

      Reply ↓
    11. Rara Avis*

      Every public school my husband has worked for has a sub pool and a person responsible for setting subs up. (My private school does too, but that’s less relevant here.)

      Reply ↓
  17. Science KK*

    Earlier in the week I told a story in the comments about a coworker and mentioned that I had a whole big saga about her I could write in the open thread. Here’s the story (dun dun).

    About a year ago we got a sort of new employee I’ll call Alice. She worked for our group years ago and came back after rage quitting her past job. She told me it was because they tried to get her to cancel a doctor’s appointment she waited a while for so she sent her motor and walked out.

    She was really hyped up by management about how she’d take so much off my plate, my life would be so much easier and better………and none of that happened. When I asked for just help with some of my tasks she said no I’ll just take it over now and then she’d never do the tasks. When we started a big project her snippy comments started.

    Well are you sure these are the llamas that need to be groomed? Are they actually, are you really sure? (Yes they were, but I’m not sure why she asked since she ignored my confirmation). We need a strict rotation plan for feeding the llamas (this has never been an issue or a thing, and several people including her forgot their rotation day and the llamas either didn’t get fed or I had to do it last minute. She pitched a fit when our manager said to stop). Lots of “threatening” to go to our bosses too, but she’d never actually do it because I’d encourage it. And when there was legitimate questions that needed the higher ups involved she’d panic and try to stop me from talking to them.

    This the escalated to her not completing tasks when she said she would, then at all. Example: she started grooming llamas in one room while I was in the room next store. She’d disappear for a couple hours, get behind, say she’d come on the weekend to make it up. Monday comes, oh yeah sorry I actually couldn’t make it. Now we’re even further behind. Round and round we went, I got management involved, she was unhappy.

    I then had to train her on a computer task based on the llama grooming info we collected. She wasn’t getting it at first but people learn at different speeds and, she’s still randomly gone for blocks of time, making a big deal how busy she is. She’s probably too stressed and not putting enough time in. This goes on for FOUR MONTHS. She tries to not do the full training and gets mad when I shut her down. I once again have to get management involved.

    She also insisted on being on our emergency on call list for our freezers/fridges with extremely expensive supplies and irreplaceable samples. This is 100% voluntary since it’s typically the middle of the night and is a lot of work. She even suggested she be FIRST ON CALL. Call comes, she doesn’t acknowledge or come in. It ends up being almost an hour before someone does. She fully admits she got the call, then texted our bosses and waited to see if they were coming in. She never showed, but if you asked about it she got super angry and defensive.

    Turns out she has a non fatal degenerative disease, and part of the ready she took this job was because she was starting to lose her independence. She has known since 2019! It’s really sad, as there’s no treatments, and no consistent timeline so you’ll just randomly get worse at unpredictable intervals. She hasn’t been able to drive at night and is having more issues driving during the day as well.

    She only disclosed this after having a meeting with our bosses saying hey, what is going on you’re not doing multiple things you said you would do/help with. There’s tons of other parts of the job where this wouldn’t be an issue until she’s much more severely impaired, we have plenty of funding so she could get adaptive things like a larger higher resolution screen, change up her duties/times she did things. We had a horribly uncomfortable meeting where our boss made her tell our team, there was crying and it was so awkward. We weren’t allowed to tell anyone else though, so the larger group keeps asking why we’re so behind we can’t say why. She also was told by our boss to buy whatever she needs, but instead she’s now camped out at a shared computer, and will snap at anyone who asks why she’s using it for emails and basic things.

    I have more stories of non work things she’s said/done that will make you question your own sanity, I’ll drop them in a comment since this is already a novel.

    Reply ↓
    1. Apex Mountain*

      She sounds problematic but also like she’s going through a very tough time. Plus why did your boss make her tell everyone – that seems out of bounds. I feel sympathy for your colleague and don’t know why you’re gossiping about her

      Reply ↓
      1. Science KK*

        I left this out, but the only reason our grant still has funding is because I had to drop everything else I was working on to make up for the months she cost us. It was one of the top three most stressful times in my work life, and as mentioned, she’s known about this for more than five years.

        Reply ↓
      2. Cordelia*

        Yes the way Alice has been treated, and the fact she was made to disclose her medical information to the team, is appalling. Not appalling for you, OP, appalling for Alice. You seem to be expecting us to sympathise with you about the awkwardness of this meeting and how inconvenient Alice’s disease is for you.

        Reply ↓
    2. Science KK*

      Alice’s highlight reel of what the heck:

      – the reason she pushed me to approve only half of her training was so she could work from home because she bred her large breed dog. Her parents don’t like this dog and wouldn’t let it move with her, the dog had been living with her sister. Alice brought the dog there anyway once she was bred and she had 15 puppies! Now she’s going out of the country soon and only four of them have homes, her parents are refusing to care for or do anything for the puppies once she leaves, and they told her this from the start.

      – we had a voluntary group movie day, with about a month’s notice. She didn’t even attempt to get a ride until the day of, and refused an offer from a coworker to give her a ride home. Her sister came from over an hour away to pick her up.

      – we just had our group Christmas party. Again, she waited until the catering deadline to try and find a ride. She straight up told me this when asked. She had known for two weeks and this time has offers from several people to give her a ride. She also could’ve invited her sister or a parent as a plus one, and they would’ve gotten a free dinner out of it.

      Her family situation seems not great so I do feel bad for her, but I’m also done trying to offer help when I can just to get snapped at/ condescended to.

      Reply ↓
      1. Um*

        Waiting until the last minute to make plans, while frustrating for the planners, is pretty standard for people dealing with illnesses (even non-fatal ones, which I worry is a detail you included to infer that her situation is not a big deal).

        Reply ↓
  18. Annie Edison*

    Can anyone recommend some good online excel courses or tutorials that are not video based? I’m working a temp admin job, anticipating some downtime over the holidays, and trying to find productive ways to fill it. I don’t have a great set up for watching videos but would love to level up my excel skills

    Reply ↓
    1. Tradd*

      Libraries often have Word/Excel courses, but the ones in my area seem to have gone from in-person pre-pandemic to all online. Plus, they probably wouldn’t be going during the holidays if in person. Maybe you could check at a local junior college or the like and see if someone could tutor you in person if you don’t want video based learning.

      Reply ↓
      1. Annie Edison*

        Ooh thanks, but to clarify: I’m looking for things I can do at my desk at work during downtime, not so much an actual class. Thank you though!

        Reply ↓
    2. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It’s not a course, but when I was learning how to be more proficient with Excel, I learned a ton from a blog called Chandoo dot org (spelling it out so that you don’t have to wait for the link to appear). That site had a lot of project-based Excel solutions for things, which I found was the best way for me to learn because the work had actual application to things. At the time, I was creating a lot of forms as well as taking raw data from databases and turning it into dashboards and found the site invaluable. I think there’s video content now, but a lot of it is still step-by-step written instruction.

      Reply ↓
    3. 653-CXK*

      Excel Easy is an excellent resource, going from basic to expert. They have modules to show you how to use Excel.

      Link: excel-easy.com

      Reply ↓
    4. Strive to Excel*

      Less of a tutorial, but StackOverflow has a big excel section. I use it frequently as a “how do I do this fiddly thing” lookup location.

      Reply ↓
  19. President Porpoise*

    Quick one – I have a second/third interview (if you count the initial fit conversation with the recruiter) for a really interesting job with a really great company. The person I’m interviewing with is quite high level and would be my grandboss. Do I expect something very similar to the interview I had with the hiring manager? Or are there other questions I should expect at that level? I can make it happen either way – but I like to be well prepared.

    Also, the hiring manager initially said that if I’d be moved to the next round, it’d be a few weeks. It was less than one, and the hiring manager initiated some really good continued conversations about my mindset/abilities via email response to my thank you note. Good sign, or am I reading into it too much?

    I’m trying hard to keep the mindset of ‘I don’t want this job, really’ but it’s hard because I get more excited about it the more I hear, and these dudes seem truly fantastic.

    Reply ↓
    1. Blue Pen*

      In my experience, grandboss interviews are more conversational than anything; in my last job interview (for the position I have now), when I got to the stage of meeting with the head honcho, they flat out said to me at the beginning “when we’re at this stage, it means that you’ve done well and we’re just getting to know each other.”

      That said, I would still come prepared as if it were any other job interview. Have logistical questions for them, yes, but I think more philosophical questions—where do you see this company going, what aren’t you able to do now that you want to achieve in the future, etc.—are more appropriate here.

      Generally speaking, your hiring manager is the person you’re going to be working with on a regular basis, and so that’s the one you want to hammer out specifics with: what is this job, what will my day look like, etc. The grandboss is the bird’s-eye-view discussion.

      Regarding good signs or not, sure, there are some indicators that you’re progressing well. But I’m a big believer in the “job isn’t yours until it’s yours” mantra. Do not bank on anything and don’t torture yourself looking for signs that might just be the way the interview process goes. You can be excited about a job, but don’t invest yourself into something that—statistically speaking—will not swing your way. Keep applying for other positions, and if this one works out the way you want it to, it’ll be a happy surprise to enjoy and celebrate.

      Reply ↓
  20. Amber Rose*

    OK, I’ve been at the new job 7 days. It’s BAD ya’ll.

    My boss and surrounding coworkers are super nice, and that’s the single positive. This company is a dumpster fire. They once wrote up a man for asking for a sick day to mourn his father. They have an abnormally high rate of extremely serious injuries to the point that workers comp are giving them maximum penalties. I can’t get injury reports from managers to save my life (and I have spent these 7 days dealing with several injuries a day.) I’m ripping myself apart with anxiety over how bad this place treats their staff and how awful the safety culture is. I cry myself to sleep every night.

    Anyway I’m keeping some interviews I debated canceling. I need out! Has anyone dealt with immediate job regret like this who can offer some words of wisdom?

    Reply ↓
    2. juliebulie*

      My first job out of college, I was hired by a real estate tycoon who wanted to launch a series of motivational audio cassette tapes. My first assignment was to brainstorm motivational words and phrases to pepper the scripts with. And also to write the scripts. Me, fresh out of college, not knowing a thing about real estate or, for that matter, “financial success.”

      I don’t know what I was expecting, but not that. But one thing I did learn at that job is that, while real estate might make you rich, doing seminars on how to get rich quick in real estate is even more lucrative.

      Reply ↓
    3. juliebulie*

      My previous comment is awaiting moderation, so apologies if this is out of order:

      You asked for words of wisdom. You already know this: just keep looking. In my case, I told myself that my job search was still my priority, and reminded myself that I was lucky to have a source of income during my search, and that having a job probably made me look better as a candidate. That immediately put me into a better frame of mind.

      I was let go a few months later because I balked at typing a big headline, “take advantage of other people’s problems.” (I realized I was being insubordinate, but I was taken by surprise.) I said it was appalling. When I got home, I followed up on my sent resumes and got an interview. I worked a temp job while waiting to hear. Luckily I only had to do that for two days, and then I got the job. Here’s hoping you’ll get lucky, too.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hello*

      Hi Amber Rose – I was in a similar situation in 2017 and managed to get out after 6 months, in an area with not many jobs. I had to accept minimum wage and long commute, and take a step back career wise but yeah it was worth it to escape actual Evil people.
      It’s doable and you WILL escape! But I won’t lie I was constantly miserable. Don’t rush into something that could be worse, but expand your net if you can don’t be afraid to reach out to any support network you have. There’s also no shame in keeping your head down and not rocking the boat – just go in, don’t challenge anything, go home, although Obviously YMMV if its safety related.

      Reply ↓
    5. Rex Libris*

      On the brighter side, as soon as you get another job on the line, you probably won’t have been there long enough to have to worry about burning bridges, or needing to list them on a resume or anything. You can pretty much quit, walk out, and forget they ever existed, barring extenuating circumstances.

      Reply ↓
    6. ScruffyInternHerder*

      My spouse has. (Local HR had no clue he was hired, to give you an idea. He had a vague feeling, kept looking. He was correct in that hunch as when he left with an offer five weeks later…he still had no computer, no credentials, no nothing that he would have needed to actually do his job as a programmer….)

      His reaction at the time was to continue job searching as though he had no job, while showing up at the actual job he had in the meantime. He would have preferred to just quit and job search fulltime, but they were paying him even if they weren’t providing him the square root of squat with which to do any actual work.

      Reply ↓
    7. Sharpie*

      Did you have other applications out when you got this job? Keep that job search going, even if you can only manage fifteen minutes a day to browse Indeed or whatever industry job boards you’re on.

      You’ve got this, you can get a better job because they are out there. And when you do, you don’t even need to include this one on the CV/resumé.

      Reply ↓
    8. Double A*

      Keep interviewing!!! Sounds like you were already in the midst of a job search, so don’t even break stride on it.

      Reply ↓
  21. BulliedAnalyst*

    This is so bizarre and I’m so angry and hurt but also just lost on what if anything to do next.

    Over 5 years ago I worked for a woman I’ll call Samantha and I had two coworkers I’ll call Emily and Montrell. I was an analyst at a cost center and things were OK until Samantha started. We immediately got off on the wrong foot and things only got worse from there.

    I got along well with Emily and we both bonded being around the same age. Then out of nowhere Samantha made Emily move to her state or lose her job. After the move suddenly everything I said upset Emily. Samatha then hired Montrell, also in her state, and he was immediately very standoffish and rude to me. I was the only out of state analyst on her team.

    From then on complaints would roll in over anything and everything I did from these two, but mainly Emily. It was always a public dressing down during team meetings. It was a dark and depressing time for me. My memory of it is hazy because I just shut down emotionally during a lot of it.

    I ended up getting a much higher level role out of that department and eventually left the company for where I am now. I don’t have those sorts of issues anymore, but it’s honestly stuck with me. I still worry when seemingly normal conversations are going to secretly be huge deals where I upset people. For several years I thought I was autistic and spent a lot of time and money getting that ruled out.

    Out of the blue Emily called me Monday night. She sounded drunk and was crying. She confessed that Samantha would hold secret meetings just before our team meetings where she would demand that Emily or Montrell come up with complaints about me. If they didn’t speak up with complaints Samantha would start tearing into them. Emily cried that she felt terrible lieing about me all the time but that I didn’t know how scary Samantha was and I needed to forgive her.

    I admit I lost my temper, yelled that I don’t forgive her, and ranted about how much this impacted me before Emily got defensive and I hung up on her. Not my finest moment.

    I looked up Samantha and she is still a manager there. I texted Emily yesterday after I had collected my thoughts “I am sorry for my initial response, yelling was not ok. If you are serious about wanting forgiveness then I’d like you to work with HR to file a complaint against Samantha and I’ll also file a complaint. She should not be managing anyone.”

    Emily replied – “I don’t know what you are talking about.” My gut told me she was lying and scared again. She still works for the company but is not in Samantha’s department anymore. I just texted back ” If you truly meant it when you said it was wrong and you are sorry then help me find a contact for Montrell.” She immediately texted back his number and said ” We are square. I’m blocking you.” So I stopped texting.

    I texted Montrell. “Hey this is BulliedAnalyst. Emily just shared with me that Samantha would hold secret meetings with you two just before the real team meeting and would pressure you to make up complaints about me. Is this true? If yes I’m asking for your help to lodge a complaint with HR with any proof or documentation you have so that Samantha can never do this to anyone else. ”

    He texted me this morning “I don’t remember these meetings”. I texted back ” So you are saying they didn’t happen? ” And he just texted back “I work for a new company and would prefer you not contact me again. ”

    So now I’m feeling confused and it’s brought up a lot of the same feelings I had when I was on the team. For Emily to call me and say these things just to turn around and tell me she doesn’t know what I’m talking about, and for Montrell to refuse to say ” Yeah no these didn’t happen” and just beating around the bush with ” I don’t remember.” Has me feeling sick inside. I can’t imagine contacting HR all these years later just to make such a wild claim, but it just makes that entire saga make sense. Should I just move on? Is there anything I can do?

    Reply ↓
    1. Pete Pete - Go Away*

      Move on. Nothing you can do. You don’t work there anymore and you have no claims on what is occuring there unless they were criminal and you had strong evidence of that. You were burned in a very harsh manner, but you have nothing to work with to advance the issue.

      Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      Oh my goodness. How awful. These things really stay with us for a long time, don’t they? I would also do everything I could to move on. One thing you can do is imagine them on a raft that you push off into the horizon. Practice visualizing watching them fade away. Do this over and over again each time a memory or twinge of pain occurs.

      Write a very very angry and scathing letter but do not send it. Burn it and wash the ashes form. Get out every vile thing you’d like to say to them (which are justified) and take pleasure in doing that. But DO NOT SEND it. Emily sounds like she’s got her own issues if she’s drinking so heavily that she drunkenly dialed you while crying and then yelled back at you. Then she either drank so much that she blacked out or she really is a spineless minion of Samantha’s. Take pleasure in the fact that you never allowed yourself to sink so low.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        All this. Write it out, stick pins in a Samantha voodoo doll (all three of those asshats), burn it, move on. Emily is spineless and was that drunk on a Monday night. I hope she had a hell of a hangover Tuesday!

        Reply ↓
    3. Hlao-roo*

      I agree with Pete Pete, it’s time to move on. You don’t work there anymore and won’t contact HR without Montrell or Emily providing more context, Montrell doesn’t work there anymore and isn’t going contact HR about Samantha, Emily still works there(?) and isn’t going to contact HR about Samantha.

      You don’t mention this anywhere in your comments, but have you gone/do you go to therapy at all? Because this has all bubbled up in your life again thanks to Emily’s phone call, it might be helpful to talk the whole situation through with a therapist.

      Reply ↓
    4. RagingADHD*

      There really is nothing you can do. You and Montrell don’t work there anymore and have zero credibility with HR. Emily apparently is still scared of Samantha’s influence. Neither she nor Montrell are willing to support anything you say.

      If Samantha is still treating employees badly, they have the option to take it up with HR themselves, transfer, or quit. If she can’t keep people, that will speak for itself.

      Bullying really sticks with us, and I hope you have support available to work through the feelings this brought back up.

      Reply ↓
    5. Elsewise*

      It sounds like all three of you were affected really strongly by working under Samantha. Montrell is scared, you are obviously still hurt, and Emily. Emily is a hot mess.

      I agree with the others that unfortunately, I think you have to move on. Putting yourself through reminders of the bullying you went through is obviously hurting you. Remember, you got out. You got promoted, found a new job where you don’t have to deal with this anymore, you’re thriving.

      I also dealt with severe bullying, not in the workplace, but I know how badly it can affect you. I used to daydream about people contacting me to apologize so I could refuse to forgive them. As much as it feels like that would be the one true victory, it’s not. I really won by getting out, living my life, and letting them be stuck with themselves. Emily still works at that company, Montrell is still avoiding any mention of what he went through and what he did, and Samantha has to deal with Samantha not just at work but every minute of every day. You won.

      Reply ↓
    6. Tio*

      Yeah, you need to move on. Even if you contacted HR, ad even if Emily did as well, This is not likely to have the sort of result you are hoping for – which is most likely something ranging from severe managerial oversight on Samantha to firing her. Five years ago a manager bullied me is not something HR is really going to be able to do much with at this point. And it kind of sounds like you think that Montrell and Emily have an obligation of some sort to correct their wrong, but they don’t. Emily apologized because she felt bad about what happened, and that’s probably the most you’re going to get out of it. Montrell probably does not want in on the drama now that he’s free – and so are you. I know it had lingering effects, but you need to work on moving past it, and leave Emily and Montrell alone. You escaped Samantha, and you need to focus on healing yourself and not trying to relitigate the past.

      Reply ↓
      1. BulliedAnalyst*

        I disagree on the obligation part. I was raised that you are kind and honest to people and if you mess up you make amends or at the very least make a heartfelt apology.

        I know neither Emily or Montrell are going to do that. But you will never convince me that they failed their obligation to be decent people.

        Also you make it seem like I want Samantha punished. But all I want is for people to never have to deal with what I did. It sucks I’m powerless to make that happen but I don’t appreciate you suggesting I am out to get Samantha fired.

        Reply ↓
    7. In My Underdark Era*

      I fortunately I agree with the consensus that there’s not really anything you can do here but burn a little effigy of Samantha and then wash your hands of it. just want to say I’m so sorry this happened to you. what a mess.

      Reply ↓
    8. Sharpie*

      I would suggest that the best revenge you can have is being kind to yourself and living your best life. It does sound as if you would benefit from therapy, which can be beneficial anyway, even for those who haven’t gone through the mill as you have. You’re in a much higher and better position now so they’re in no place to hurt you any more, don’t let them live rent free in your head – and yes, I know that’s easy for an internet stranger to say. You’re better than them, go forth and live your life and know that a whole bunch of internet strangers are out there who just want the very best for you.

      *Jedi hugs*

      Reply ↓
  22. Toxic Waste*

    My boss asked me to print out documents for a meeting that we had with another department. Then she said that there were “too many pages” and that I didn’t have to print them out. When I met with her again, she raised her voice at me and said that I needed to have the documents after I told her that I was under the assumption that we didn’t need them.

    Later on during the meeting, my boss questioned why the documents were there, said that they were “out of order” (they weren’t), etc. We were discussing things and my boss asked me a question about something. I answered her and she snapped at me and said, “Don’t tell me, tell them.”

    Right there in front of everyone….

    My work environment and boss are extremely toxic and I’m desperately trying to get out, but until then, how do you deal with situations like this and not internalize things? Any advice is appreciated.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rag*

      I think it helps to pity people like this, just imagine what it must be like to be so incompetent and disliked by the people that work for/with you. It shows a complete lack of self awareness that we should all be thankful not to have.

      In the situation you’ve described it’s very clear which side had no clue what they were doing, so there is no need to internalise anything negative about yourself.

      Also worth remembering that, in this kind of toxic company even if you WERE bad at your job it’s not a reason to think less of yourself. Your boss is terrible at their job and they don’t seem to care, so try and adopt the same attitude for as long as you work there.

      Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      Honestly, I’ve told bosses who treat me that way in public or in private, “Horacina, do not speak to me like that.” I hate that we have to kowtow to AHs just because they are higher in the hierarchy.

      We’re talking about effing documents, ffs. Documents, Horacina! That could simply be reprinted or emailed or screen-shared to correct them! And you snapped at me over them!

      But, I take a lot of risks like that because of some serious abuse I suffered as a child and adolescent so it would be worse for my mental health progress if I allowed this to pass me by without addressing it directly. I’m sorry this happened. Based on this, she sounds ill-equipped.

      Reply ↓
  23. Less Bread More Taxes*

    Sexism at work – how do I not let it get me down?

    To keep this brief, I’ve gotten some unfair feedback recently on things like my facial expressions and my normal speaking voice. Two people, including my manager, have told me it’s likely due to sexism. I want to be the kind of person who just brushes that off and moves on, but I can’t. Since the last piece of feedback, I’ve been a complete shell. I’m afraid to speak at all at work. In meetings, I’m so focused on looking pleasant that I’m often missing what’s being said. How do I get over this and survive in this role until I’m able to leave?

    Reply ↓
    1. Kickin Rocks*

      “I’ve gotten some unfair feedback recently on things like my facial expressions and my normal speaking voice.”

      But what if you do have unknown facial expressions that are distracting to others. I have a wild eyebrow that flexes when I’m skeptical, annoyed. I know this and often visual a piece of tape keeping it from going on it’s own. Inappropriate or untimley facial expressions are something we need to be aware of as professionals. Some people constantly roll their eyes, ‘resting b- face’ is a thing that can be annoying (while others find it werdly empowering)

      Normal speaking voice is less of something you can work on. But you can take dialect or voice coaching to figure out if it could be more professionally tonal or engaging.

      For others to simply assume that sexism is at play is not helpful. Perhaps you have problem areas that need to be addressed. What’s unfair about it? You can manage your facial expressions and voice if they are problems in your work/relationships.

      You have to moderate your response. To go under and retract due to some feedback is an overreaction. You’re not a complete shell; perhaps that’s what you want to think so you can defend yourself, but you need to stand up, find your confidence and do your job until you find something else. You’ll need this if you want to leave because when you go into interviews you’ll still be thinking about your voice and facial expressions. Figure out if they’re really an issue, using professional services, and then get out of the funk.

      Reply ↓
      1. Less Bread More Taxes*

        I don’t know how to answer your questions because they *are* real issues for some people at my company, but I’m getting the sense internally and externally that it’s only because of my gender. I’m also the only woman on my team, so I don’t have anyone to compare myself too.

        Here’s an example: I was on a call recently for a project that I am leading, and consultants were on the call. At the end, one of the consultants asked who the point of contact was at our company, and I said “that’s me, you can email me. Thanks for all your time and effort today, really appreciate it.” Later during a team meeting, my manager said about that statement in particular “some people are going to find you aggressive”. He admitted it was sexist, and I got no tangible feedback that I can actually work with.

        I have been on meetings that have been downright hostile with people raising their voices and whatnot, so hearing that a really neutral/positive statement from me was getting such a reaction feels pointed.

        Reply ↓
        1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

          Yep, that is not an aggressive statement – that’s very polite. To call it aggressive is… bananas.

          Reply ↓
      2. Reba*

        Well, the “others” are people actually in the same workspace, so we can feel confident they are not “simply assum[ing]” sexism without lots of other intel to base that on. Sexism is really common and to suggest that knowledgeable people are jumping to conclusions about it isn’t helpful.

        Reply ↓
    2. dude, who moved my cheese?*

      “I want to be the kind of person who just brushes that off and moves on, but I can’t. Since the last piece of feedback, I’ve been a complete shell. I’m afraid to speak at all at work. In meetings, I’m so focused on looking pleasant that I’m often missing what’s being said. How do I get over this and survive in this role until I’m able to leave?”

      This sounds like a trauma response. Do you have any way you can connect with a counselor or do you have an Employee Assistance Plan?

      Reply ↓
  24. Liz*

    Would like some advice (or experience!) from folks who’ve successfully taken FMLA leave for mental health!

    I am incredibly burnt out at work, which is aggravating some mental health issues I have (depression, ADHD, plus long covid which is not exactly mental health but also not helping) and I’m finally admitting that I’m never going to get better if I don’t take some actual leave. However, I’m incredibly intimidated by the paperwork and worried my request is going to be denied.

    1) I don’t think my therapist (the person I see weekly about this health issues) is qualified to fill out the paperwork – can I just ask my regular doctor to fill it out? Will they be willing to when they’re not the person advising this course of action?

    2) How much detail do they have to put down? I HATE the idea of my HR team knowing all my medical business. I also don’t necessarily have a clear single diagnosis so I don’t know if I should ask my doctor to list out everything or just simplify it (e.g. call it leave for just “depression”).

    3) Short-term I really need to take a big chunk of time off (aiming for a month) but there’s no guarantee that’ll “fix” me and I might need to take more random days off when I just can’t focus or function. Should I try to get the big chunk AND intermittent days off all approved in the same paperwork?

    Would love to hear any stories of other folks who’ve gone through the same thing. My HR rep is next to useless (in the past she’s asked a 4-months-pregnant coworker to give the EXACT dates she’d be out for maternity leave…. in the next 2 weeks) and I’m stressed out by all the paperwork!

    Reply ↓
    1. Ashley*

      I haven’t been through it but can you use long COVID for your reason? It should be a less judgy area…but that can still depend on who you are dealing with.

      Reply ↓
    2. Ann O*

      First, I want to say how proud I am of you for recognizing the need to prioritize your mental health and taking steps to seek support—it’s not easy, and it’s such an important decision. I completely understand how intimidating the FMLA process can feel, so I hope I can provide some guidance to help ease your stress.

      1. Who can fill out the paperwork?
      You’re absolutely allowed to ask your regular doctor to fill out the FMLA paperwork, even if they’re not the primary person treating your mental health. It’s common for general practitioners to handle this, as long as they’re aware of your health concerns and can verify your need for leave. You can also ask your therapist if they’re comfortable completing it. If not, you could ask them to provide documentation to support your case that your doctor can reference—it’s a team effort.

      2. How much detail is required?
      The good news is, your HR team doesn’t need or get access to your full medical details. The paperwork only requires enough information to show that your condition qualifies for FMLA under the law. This typically includes:

      * A basic description of how your condition affects your ability to work (e.g., inability to concentrate, fatigue).
      * The expected duration of your leave.
      * You don’t need to share exact diagnoses or personal details unless you’re comfortable. Simplifying it (e.g., “depression” or “chronic health issues”) is perfectly acceptable.

      3. Should you request both a big chunk of time off and intermittent leave?
      Yes, it’s a good idea to request both in the same paperwork. You can explain that you need a continuous period of leave to focus on recovery, with the possibility of intermittent leave after you return to manage flare-ups. FMLA is designed to be flexible, so this combination is quite common. It also saves you from having to navigate additional paperwork down the line if you end up needing those extra days.

      A Few Additional Tips:
      *Don’t worry about HR being unhelpful. Your focus is on completing the forms and getting the documentation your company requires. If your HR team isn’t proactive, follow up politely but firmly.
      *Lean on your provider(s). If paperwork is overwhelming, let your doctor and therapist know—this is something they do frequently, and they can help simplify the process for you.
      *You deserve this time. Mental health is as valid a reason for FMLA as any physical condition. Burnout, depression, ADHD, and long COVID all qualify under the law if they impair your ability to work.

      Reply ↓
      1. Liz*

        Thank you so much!! This is SO helpful with all the practical details – and I appreciate the supportive words so much as well <3 As you've guessed, it's been really hard to accept that I should take time off and not just keep trying to soldier through it, and that I'm not a failure and it's not because I'm not trying hard enough. Thank you!

        Reply ↓
    3. Pam Adams*

      I’m currently doing intermittent FMLA for medical issues. The forms ask what duties can be performed or not, and the length of time needed, but don’t get into diagnosis or details.

      Reply ↓
    4. JadziaSnax*

      I have done FMLA leave THREE time at three different jobs (2014, 2021, 2023) – twice for mental health and once for a surgery. The process is truly overwhelming, but both times it was very needed and I am really glad that I did it. To answer your Qs:

      1) I THINK your therapist should be qualified to fill it out, but if not your primary doctor definitely can as well! In 2014 I wasn’t in therapy so my primary care doc filled it out, and in 2021 I’m 90% certain believe my LMFT-licensed therapist did it (my memories from that time are a bit fuzzy).

      2) You can leave it with minimal detail – they just need something to put down for the record. “Depression” would do, or long COVID as another commenter suggested, if you don’t want them knowing about the mental health, but I suspect they’ll barely glance at the reason. The process wound up not being any different the two times I did it for mental health vs the time I had to do it for hip surgery.

      3) I would definitely recommend getting approval for the intermittent days off as well as the big chunk of time. And I’d also advise asking for more time than you think you need – I wound up having to extend mine in 2014 from 6 weeks to 12 weeks, and while it wasn’t a huge deal to extend it it would have been easier to just have all that time off upfront & not worry about it while I’m in treatment.

      Wishing you all the best – it is such a hard, scary process, but having to do it for a “physical” illness after twice doing it for a “mental” illness (using quotes because the brain is a part of your physical body!!) really drove home that HR will treat it the same way no matter the cause. This can be both a blessing and a curse depending on how effective they are at processing paperwork/getting everything in order, but they will get it done in the end. You’ve got this!!

      Reply ↓
  25. BellaStella*

    My work joy this week is a big one! I am so happy! My boss retires next week m, the team director has been moved off of managing the team officially, and today I was told I am officially moving teams so I will be away from the missing stair and enabling managers.

    Do you have work joys to share?

    Reply ↓
    1. Amber Rose*

      I passed a certification exam with a 92% a bit ago and got my fancy plaque today.

      That exam was brutal so I’m feeling a bit proud every time I look at it.

      Reply ↓
    2. Cyndi*

      Not my own, but my BFF has been complaining to me for years about their shitty manager who constantly ignored messages and questions and then would circle back around demanding to know why things hadn’t gotten done, and they finally got a new manager this week who seems much more communicative and reasonable so far! So I’m really happy for them.

      Reply ↓
    3. call me wheels*

      I’ve nearly finished my first batch of freelance writing work and the person checking my work has basically said ‘it’s not up to me but if it was I’d definitely give you more work when we can’ and then the big boss (who is the one who will ultimately decide) added that, while he still needs to personally check the work, he’s heard good things and generally sounded optimistic about having more work for me (even listing a couple of specific things) and saying if my work is as good as he’s heard then he would ‘LOVE’ (in capitals!) to continue to work with me ^_^

      Some of the stuff it was suggested I might be able to do is super fun and exciting to me so I’m feeling so happy my first time freelancing is going so well

      Reply ↓
    4. N C Kiddle*

      I think I’m getting the hang of volunteering. Yesterday my line manager said he wanted to swap my hours with another volunteer, who is available more often but doesn’t listen to instructions and often gets on people’s nerves. He also joked that if I put in for a transfer to a different town, he’d be tempted to give me a terrible reference in order to keep me. As I was leaving at the end of the day, he said, “All joking aside, you’ve done good work today, thanks.”

      Reply ↓
    5. Laggy Lu*

      I recently started a new role as an independent contractor and we just had our first in person meeting to finish planning out this project I am leading. It went so well and the people that hired me are very pleased with my work! I might be getting more work in the near future. It feels good!

      Reply ↓
      1. BellaStella*

        This is great – wishing you lots of luck sounds like you are gonna do really well as an independent contractor!

        Reply ↓
  26. Bunch Harmon*

    My apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Friday posts – I usually don’t have the time to read very many of them. I am interested in hearing from teachers who have transitioned to corporate training. In the past 7 years, I’ve been diagnosed with both ADHD and autism. This, combined with working from home during lockdowns, made me realize that much of my stress and exhaustion are stemming from sensory overload. I moved into a position with smaller class sizes, which helped a little, but I’m still exhausted after a day of teaching and I struggle with family responsibilities in the evening. Financially, I couldn’t manage to take a position teaching virtually. I’d like to move into a remote corporate training position. I’ve been considering a master’s in adult education, and also some individual certifications, but am not sure what’s best use of my funds. I would love to hear from others who have made similar transitions.

    Reply ↓
  27. Zona the Great*

    This is meant to be a light question and not one I hope will illicit a debate–I just wondered what you all thought of this funny scenario I witnessed once:

    We were teachers in the break room for lunch. One teacher used the communal blender to make herself a smoothie. Then she realized she made more than she could fit in her cup. So she offered the remainder to anyone who wanted it and left the blender with smoothie on the counter and went back to work. We’d tell new arrivals that there was a smoothie leftover to enjoy. One lady took some and then a guy walked in and drank the rest by filling his cup. Then he began to walk out and everyone shouted (not, like, angrily) to him that he needed to clean the blender now. It was said in a sort of, “ha! you’re not going to clean the blender!?” way. And he sheepishly ended up washing the dish.

    One one hand, yes this was a good thing to do. But on the other, I could see someone thinking this poor guy got roped into washing a dish he never wanted in the first place. Not a big deal at all. It took all of 3 minutes to wash and he got a smoothie but I think of this event every once in a while and wonder what you all think.

    Reply ↓
      1. Zona the Great*

        Totally. The fact that he was the sole male teacher and all we women were aghast that he’d even consider leaving the dish was such an interesting thing to watch. Every man I tell this story to thinks he was fine walking away and letting original lady come back to wash it.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ann O*

        But honestly, isn’t this just break room law? If you touch the communal appliance, you inherit its fate. Take coffee from the pot? You refill it. Your lasagna explodes in the microwave? You clean it up. Take the last of the smoothies? You clean the blender.

        Reply ↓
        1. Admin of Sys*

          This. The last slice of pizza means you throw out the pizza box, the last bagel means you throw away the bag and put any leftover cream cheese into the fridge. (also, I love the line ‘inherit its fate’)

          Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        Yeah, TBH, I realize it’s a small thing but the person who planned and implemented the smoothie should have also washed the blender IMO

        Reply ↓
    4. Hm*

      If I were the original smoothie-maker, I would have put it into a separate cup and into the fridge and then cleaned the blender myself – the idea of leaving a partially-full blender on the counter coming to room temperature is grossing me out for some reason.

      Reply ↓
    5. Antilles*

      I think this sort of falls under the same category as the coffee pot, where the person who gets the last cup is expected to wash it. Or the classic trash can rule of “he who tops it off, drops it off”.
      But I do wonder what would have happened if people had kept declining to take the smoothie. Would one of you guys watching have eventually just dumped it and cleaned it? Would you have tracked down the original teacher and told her to clean it? Just left it there forever like how a donut box can stay for hours with one lonely Last Donut?

      Reply ↓
    6. WorkerDrone*

      Totally agree with Alton Brown’s Evil Twin that the original smoothie maker should have poured the leftover in a class and cleaned the smoothie machine.

      That having been said, since that didn’t happen, Leftover Smoothie Person was then responsible for cleaning the machine, having benefited from the smoothie making.

      Reply ↓
      1. Former Admin Turned PM*

        Echoing this. Original Smoothie Maker should have completed the cycle of blend, pour, clean but anyone who joins the cycle becomes part of the cycle’s completion.

        Reply ↓
  28. upfish sinclair*

    I wanted to ask for advice on how best to work with a coworker who is very disruptive/distracting in the office, but who struggles with social cues and reacts poorly to feedback/redirection.

    My coworker Jennifer is kind and funny, but has a “big personality” and is well-known around the office for being very disruptive. We work for a small business (that is admittedly too casual), and her antics can be so distracting that our owner has attributed her to being the reason she doesn’t come in during the mornings (yes, management is a separate problem entirely but unlikely to change and I’m actively looking elsewhere). To preface, Jennifer admits all the time to having ADHD, but “doesn’t like taking her meds” so I do know a lot of these behaviors are due to neurodivergence. I don’t want to be unkind or ableist, but some of the below behaviors are the most directly distracting to the work environment:

    -She has a habit of coming over to everyone’s desk to tell them long, random stories that are completely unrelated to work (or really…anything), and will often do several of these desk drive-by’s multiple times a day, and refuses to leave unless you give a very direct “I am working on something right now and cannot talk” (and this doesn’t really always guarantee it, and it always backfires as I detail later)
    -She listens in on everyone’s conversation and finds a way to insert herself. If we are talking about a coworker’s hometown, she will run over and pull up Google Earth on her phone to show us her hometown. If we are talking about a band we like, she will come over and play multiple songs of her solo screamtronica project for us on her phone while she dances. If we are asking for an address of a supplier, she will jump in and try to give us that information (and it’s usually incorrect because she’s halfway across the office and can’t hear us completely). Basically, she has a need to insert herself and be involved in any conversation within an earshot radius and will literally run over to be included, and get huffy/whiny if she feels like she is being “left out” by a normal brief interaction between two coworkers.
    -Whenever she finishes one of her independent tasks, she will tell every one of us. She will Slack us all, then exclaim it to the office, and then walk around to each of our desks, showing us her work in its entirety. I am gleaning that this is a bid for praise/validation, but it often breaks concentration and is generally unnecessary.
    -She will get hyperfocused on tasks that do not in any way move the needle, and not only neglect her other regularly scheduled duties, but also try to rope us all into making sure these unproductive pet projects are brought to fruition. Notably, she has gotten so excited for one of her personal “projects” that she spent a good amount of company money without approval to make it happen (our boss was furious and she got chewed out).

    The biggest issue of all, is that when we try to kindly redirect her, tell her we’re too busy to chat/focusing on a project, or to just plain “stop”…she will take it *incredibly* personally. She will sulk and pout for hours, and has even cried on occasion. Yesterday I made the mistake of complimenting her shirt, and she came up to my desk and talked to me about her personal life for a whopping 22 minutes (I counted) until I finally said, “Ooh, Jennifer, I’m so sorry–I have to finish this email, can we chat later?” Her response was to dramatically go, “I’m SORRY, I’m so sorry, I’m driving you CRAZY, I always do this!” in a really hurt voice and to slam her door into her office. She then proceeded to send me 5 DMs on Slack apologizing for bothering me (which made me even more bothered!).

    Any time someone gently (or firmly!) redirects her, it has a similar result. As such, we tiptoe around her feelings and generally just let her peter out. To address the elephant (not) in the room: no, our boss is never present to help with this (and that’s a whole separate issue), so if anyone has any suggestions on what I could be doing differently in the moment, I’d really appreciate it. She’s very sweet and eager as heck, but she’s absolutely draining and distracting sometimes.

    Reply ↓
    1. ashie*

      Sulking and pouting are quiet activities that Jennifer can do all on her own with no involvement from anyone else. Let her do it, and enjoy your peace!

      Reply ↓
      1. upfish sinclair*

        Very true. I often feel really guilty when I hear her dramatic sighs/stomping footsteps/door slamming but I guess it doesn’t really affect me. I *do* get frustrated with the multiple Slack DMs of “apologies” though, I might just stop engaging.

        Reply ↓
    2. Rag*

      “If we are talking about a band we like, she will come over and play multiple songs of her solo screamtronica project for us on her phone while she dances.” I’m sorry but this image made me burst out laughing

      Reply ↓
      1. upfish sinclair*

        It’s truly surreal. One time she came over to my desk 7 different times to do that “walking down fake stairs” bit because I made the mistake of laughing at it (out of confusion/absurdity!) the first time she did it. Just….wordlessly walking down fake stairs over and over again intermittently over the course of 8 hours.

        Reply ↓
    3. WorkerDrone*

      Honestly, I would personally engage on a long-term change in my behaviour with her but I’m not sure how successful that can be in a small office.

      Basically, I’d stop interacting with her beyond what’s necessary for work gradually. I don’t see anything wrong with her sulking, crying, or pouting as long as she isn’t bothering you while doing it. (I mean, there’s lots wrong with it, but nothing that’s your problem to solve.)

      LET her take it personally. It IS personal. She is, personally, acting in a way that is inappropriate, boundary-violating, and unacceptable in the workplace and that personally bothers you. She should take it personally. It’s unfortunate that doesn’t result in a change in her behaviour, but it also isn’t really your problem how she takes it.

      When she comes over to your desk, start letting her stay for shorter and shorter times. Today, right now, mentally put her on a 10 minute timer. Every single time, cut her off after 10 minutes (kindly, no need to be aggressive) and send her away. Let her pout or be sad. After a bit of time, reduce it to five minutes. After that, drop down to 1-2 minutes of chatting before you send her away. Consistency is KEY here.

      If she’s inserting herself into a conversation you don’t want her in, end the conversation. “Oh, I have to get back to work now.” I don’t really think you could straight up say: “I wasn’t talking to you, go away” but you can refuse to reward the behaviour.

      When she finishes a task and comes over, don’t reward the behaviour. This might feel meaner, but try a neutral face and something like, “Ok – I don’t really need a head’s up when you’ve finished [whatever].”

      Basically, grey-rock as much as possible, while accepting that she will very dramatically hate it and just let her do that.

      Reply ↓
      1. upfish sinclair*

        This is excellent advice. I think you’re right on the money with me needing to “let her” have her feelings/consequences and not take responsibility for them. I just never want to hurt anyone’s feelings at work and make them feel left out, so I feel like I try to play too nice and end up catering to the behavior as a result.

        Reply ↓
    4. Zona the Great*

      I’d have so much fun ignoring her and giving her zero reaction. I had a Johniffer who was the same way. We’d cringe at seeing him coming. Then we all seemed to get the same idea at the same time to pretend he was a gnat flying around and stopped engaging all together. We’d even rescue each other from him by pretending to need to start a meeting, fix an error in the code, whatever. “Oh excuse me Johniffer. Hey Billy, I need you in this meeting right now.” Poor Johniffer couldn’t even get four nonsensical words in before we’d swoop in to grab each other from his grasp.

      Reply ↓
    5. WellRed*

      Not sure why your boss needs to be in office to help with this? I disagree Jennifer is sweet. She’s needy, attention seeking and passive aggressive. I like all the advice to ignore her and let her have her feels.

      Reply ↓
      1. upfish sinclair*

        Ah, yeah, I added that bit because I originally had brought it up to my boss as it was becoming a point of distraction and also occasionally affecting my work. She immediately laughed and said, “Oh my god, I know, she’s the worst, just ignore her, I never come in anymore because she’s so distracting and annoying.” I guess I kind of assumed it was the boss’s responsibility to step in and manage problem employees like that, but I know every workplace is different.

        Reply ↓
        1. WellRed*

          It’s absolutely the boss responsibility but sounds like yours won’t do anything. You could try more specifics. Today, she spent three hours talking to me so I couldn’t find Big Task and this happens every day to every one.

          Reply ↓
    6. RagingADHD*

      I have ADHD, and it is perfectly possible for neurodivergent people to behave appropriately toward their coworkers without pouting and slamming doors, whether they take their meds or not. Acting as if this is totally beyond her control is “the soft bigotry of low expectations.”

      She is manipulating you with guilt so you won’t try to assert boundaries with her. That is not an ADHD symptom, it is just toxic behavior.

      Treat her exactly like you would treat any other coworker that you did not feel obligated to make allowances for. When she’s behaving pleasantly, be pleasant. If everyone is doing something social, include her. When it’s time to stop chatting and you need to do your work, or if she is being intrusive or disruptive, ask her politely to stop or say politely that you need to finish.

      When she pouts, ignore her. When she apologizes, accept it once and ignore the rest. If she slams her door, mention that you’ve noticed the door seems to slam very easily, and offer to ask Facilities to put a soft-close spring or a dampening cushion on her doorframe.

      Be the grownup, and if that means you’re the “bad guy,” so be it. The 2 most likely results are that she will either straighten up or start avoiding you. Both are wins. There is also the possibility that she will have a total come apart and wind up taking a leave of absence, getting fired, or quitting. All of those are wins for you as well, as far as I can tell.

      Reply ↓
  29. Just trying to do my job*

    My (large, well-known, highly-regarded) nonprofit has provided a public service for our local government for nearly 50 years. The last couple years the relationship has been a little rocky for many reasons but mostly because they don’t want to pay what it costs to do the work we’re contracted to do. It’s finally come to a head and now the contract dispute and renegotiations are out in public. The citizens are mostly on our side but it’s ugly and uncomfortable. I feel bad for my boss. I hope we get through this soon.

    Reply ↓
  30. yogurt*

    Had a fun overreaction to a simple, routine email I sent this week, and I’m curious to know if anyone else has handled similar emails in a way you feel is worthy of sharing or advising other people on!! (I just did the, ‘I’m going to pretend that email wasn’t dripping with passive-aggression’ road and ignored it. I have my documentation now, thanks haha).

    The basics, I manage a grant, but I do not handle the financial reports for internal control reasons. My job is to tell the fiscal person when the report is due, and then get them an extension if they need it. That’s it! But last time this report came due, our finance person really messed it up. Boss’s were CC’d. It was kind of a nightmare that went over my head because, again, I am but a tiny cog. I have no supervisory power. I tell the fiscal person about the report, and if they don’t do it right, I notify them and ask them to do it again. The fact that boss’s were involved was because this particular person missed deadlines, made mistakes, etc.

    I don’t care about any of that. Not my circus. I just tell my granter, “Sorry, please give us an extension.” Yet, this fiscal person clearly hates me, or maybe our program generally, because of what happened. When I sent them a notification (at the behest of MY boss!) to remind them of the due date (which they even asked me to do, it’s part of our procedure) and nicely asked if they wanted an extension (with no mention of the last cluster of a report! serious! totally professional, nothing-burger email on my part), they sent me the most dripping, sarcastic, mean-spirited email back that amounted to: “Don’t tell me when my report is due, I know when it’s due and I don’t need you to ever email me about this b/c I’m a very busy and important person, thanks.” Complete with sarcastic exclamation marks.

    What did I do? Raised an eyebrow. Filed it in my grant folder for future verification if this person messes up again. Can’t wait to dish with my boss about it – at least I have an ally!

    Reply ↓
    1. Science KK*

      I think you’re a person they can “safely” lash out at. Basically collateral damage. Sorry they did that, it’s crappy, but at least it doesn’t seem like it’s bothering you too much! Hopefully once more time has passed they’ll get over it and go back to normal.

      Reply ↓
    2. Hillary*

      I tell myself there’s something else going on that caused the overreaction. I’m a bit player and their narrative is going in overdrive. Last one of these I dealt with the other person had two funerals that week and had to put his dog down that morning.

      If a response is required I ignore the snark and just reply with sincerity and kindness. If no response is required I try to ignore it.

      Reply ↓
    3. Mockingjay*

      I’d count this instance as a one-off. Next month, send the report due notice as usual. Hopefully things will be back on track.

      I also have to remind people of things that I have no authority over. My trick: every email is on behalf of the boss. “Per Ms. Boss, the finance report is due in two weeks. Please let us know if an extension is required. Thank you!” (I use the exclamation point to soften the delivery. Seems to help, at least with the people I coordinate with. YMMV.)

      Reply ↓
  31. Trying to Read Tea Leaves*

    I can’t tell if I’m being unrealistic right now: do you think this is a particularly terrible time to freelance when it means insurance would depend on my (blue state) exchange for health insurance? What if I was picturing 6-12 month window? I was semi-successful at freelancing during the pandemic (made enough to get by) and my current job is a dumpster fire so I may end up back there. But the health insurance question weighs on me.

    Note: I know the commentariat slants towards people who are risk-adverse. If you can never ever imagine leaving your job to freelance, maybe skip this one.

    Reply ↓
    1. JFC*

      I would explore it as an option if you feel confident you could be a successful freelancer. The rates on most exchanges are pretty reasonable nowadays. I suggest talking to an agent with a company like Blue Cross or whoever has a large presence in your state. They are normally good about helping people navigate options.

      If you go that route, look for plans that have your preferred doctors/hospitals in network and have good prescription coverage.

      Reply ↓
      1. BCBS*

        Be aware that BCBS often offers the same plans as other companies at significantly higher rates, so you may wish to compare.

        Reply ↓
      2. Sloanicota*

        But do we think that’s going to change under the new administration? Or are health insurance costs / plans “locked in” for at least year? I don’t know.

        Reply ↓
        1. JFC*

          They’re generally locked in for a year if it’s a health plan you get through your employer. If you get one on your own through an exchange, it isn’t necessarily that way. You can go month to month or a set number of months but aren’t locked into any specific timeframe, for better or worse.

          Reply ↓
    2. Ann Onymous*

      I would just recommend if you’ve got any long-term prescriptions, make sure you find out how those are covered before choosing a plan. A lot of the exchange plans try to incentivize the usage of generic medications by putting high copays on brand name medications, but this tends to apply even to brand name medications where no generics exist. When I was between jobs a few years ago, I qualified for an exchange plan with pretty low premiums, but ended up being better off paying higher premiums to get lower prescription copays on a non-exchange plan.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      Someone with more HR/insurance training is welcome to chime in, but I think that while the next couple of years are pretty up in the air the upcoming year is mostly locked in by insurance companies. 6-12 months of freelancing probably (hopefully) won’t make an impact on the open exchange more than it would on a given company’s plan.

      I’m guessing you’ve already considered other types of insurance/licensing you’d need to account for? Life/disability, professional/malpractice (as needed)? I don’t think there have been significant changes in those areas over the last few years but it’s always worthwhile double-checking all the other potential regulatory/insurancy things.

      Reply ↓
    4. Laggy Lu*

      I was literally just in this situation. I was laid of my FT job in July and was using my COBRA insurance. I recently picked up a freelance job and decided to keep the COBRA since I could afford it (I put my monthly costs into my hourly rate), and I didn’t want to worry about getting new doctors. I am very glad I did, because I do not know what I would do if I lost my insurance. I would have to go on my husband’s and start from zero with all my conditions.
      My COBRA will run out in December of 2025. I will have to either have a FT job by then (which is possible with my current gig), or figure out next steps.
      I think the next 6 months will be really telling about the direction the ACA will go. So many people voted against their interests, and the ACA is really entrenched, so it’s hard to imagine it going away altogether. I could see it becoming fairly minimal, which for many people might mean it basically is useless (like me). It’s also notable that during T’s previous admin there wasn’t the appetite to dismantle the ACA, regardless of the “promises” made before the election.

      Reply ↓
    5. RagingADHD*

      I freelanced for about ten years and would not do it now until it gets a little clearer what’s likely to happen with health insurance, taxes, and the economy at large. Making enough to get by may not be enough when the effect of tariffs and agricultural worker shortages kick in. Steady money is going to be important.

      Reply ↓
  32. Kickin Rocks*

    “I’ve gotten some unfair feedback recently on things like my facial expressions and my normal speaking voice.”

    But what if you do have unknown facial expressions that are distracting to others. I have a wild eyebrow that flexes when I’m skeptical, annoyed. I know this and often visual a piece of tape keeping it from going on it’s own. Inappropriate or untimley facial expressions are something we need to be aware of as they can be distracting to others.

    Normal speaking voice is less of something you can work on. But you can take dialect or voice coaching to figure out if it could be more professionally tonal or engaging.

    For others to simply assume that sexism is at play is not helpful. Perhaps you have problem areas that need to be addressed. What’s unfair about it? You can manage your facial expressions and voice if they are problems in your work/relationships.

    You have to moderate your response. To go under and retract due to some feedback is an overreaction. You’re not a complete shell; perhaps that’s what you want to think so you can defend yourself, but you need to stand up, find your confidence and do your job until you find something else. You’ll need this if you want to leave because when you go into interviews you’ll still be thinking about your voice and facial expressions. Figure out if they’re really an issue, using professional services, and then get out of the funk.

    Reply ↓
  33. questioner*

    what does Alison mean by recently?? I sent a question in November 1st and haven’t heard anything – am I okay to ask it here?

    Reply ↓
    1. Antilles*

      I don’t think that’s ever been defined, but I think you’re absolutely fine to post after six weeks. I think that rule is mostly so someone doesn’t submit something on Monday and then post it a few days later in the open thread.

      I once submitted a question and got an answer published ~9 months later, but my question was explicitly a theoretical scenario based on a TV trope, so I assume it just got filed away for the next time there was a slow news day.

      Reply ↓
  34. Get Me Your Danged Slides*

    Ok I’m sort of a Facilitator for technical meetings (freelance) and want to change how my bids are structured but want to check if this seems weird. A lot of times the meeting organizers don’t send me the slides/documents they used in the meeting without my asking a billion times (there are a lot of factors for this). I don’t really have the power to “make” the high-up people running these meetings do anything, and my role is extremely low-level. The problem is my bids say I will send the meeting minutes within two weeks of the meeting, but increasingly I don’t even have the powerpoints or list of attendees by then (some of these are online meetings that are on someone else’s platform). I’m tired of copying slides from recordings when I know the text exists and just hasn’t been shared with me. I want to change my bids to say notes will be sent “two weeks after the meeting or whenever meeting materials are sent to me.” Does this seem fair and realistic to you?

    Reply ↓
    1. Get Me Your Danged Slides*

      sidenote – yes, ideally I’d prefer to have all those things in advance of the meeting, but you know how people are – they bring a powerpoint into the room on a flashdrive that they were just editing five minutes ago in the hall.

      Reply ↓
    2. Strive to Excel*

      Yes. Two weeks from the later of the meeting itself or from when all materials are provided would be reasonable.

      Reply ↓
    4. Goddess47*

      As an option, make that “meeting minutes will be provided two weeks after the meeting; in situations where ancillary materials (including and not limited to power point presentations) are not provided to me within 5 working days of the meeting, they may not be included with the minutes”

      Put the onus back on them to get the materials to you on a timely basis. You likely aren’t getting paid enough to chase after them.

      After the first time someone goes ‘where is the ppt?’ you can say ‘ask X, they never gave it to me’ and that will likely solve the problem the majority of the time.

      Reply ↓
      1. Get Me Your Danged Slides*

        Yeah, I would like to do this, but with some things, it helps *me* to have the minutes/attendees list, such as when I have to attribute speakers to various quotes and want to check the spelling or be sure I have the right name. And in tracking the conversation, I need to have the questions in order to properly record the answers. Me re-typing extremely text-rich slides should not be the answer, surely.

        Reply ↓
  35. LilacliLy*

    My coworker and I were both headhunted by a competitor company; she initially rejected them because she’s happy at her current role, but after they insisted she agreed to talk to them even if it was just to practice her interview skills, whereas I did not get an interview. Long story short she ended up getting offered the job, and although she wasn’t thrilled to do a lateral move, she was planning on accept their offer because the salary was an extra £8k to £10k a year. The CEO of our company, upon hearing the news that she was leaving, had a heart-to-heart with her (we’re less than 50 employees total so it’s a tight knit company) where she admitted she wasn’t happy about leaving but she’s not had a significant raise since she started with them, and with living costs going up more and more each year she felt like not taking the job would be the wrong decision for herself and her family, so in order to keep her here he gave her a £8k raise counter-offer, which she happily accepted.

    She shared all of this with me because I helped her prepare for the interview and I was a listening ear and trusted advisor when she was debating what to do, but she asked that I do not talk about this with our boss because the CEO seemingly asked her not to share that she’s been offered a raise, as they’re not doing pay raises or bonuses this upcoming year. However, she’s hopeful that they’ll at least raise my pay too, as she agrees that we’re both very underpaid in our roles.

    My boss ands I had a couple of one-to-one chats since this happened and he’s not mentioned salary adjustments or raises. I’m planning on bringing it up with him right after my one year company anniversary in January if he doesn’t beat me to it, framing it as a salary adjustment, but say the company doesn’t agree to raise my pay to match my coworker’s… is there anything I can do besides aggressively job hunt? Has anyone else been through something similar?

    For reference, I have just over 10 years experience doing very similar/related work to what I do nowadays, with four of those in the specific industry our company works in, and my coworker is a bit older and has nearly 20 years professional experience in an adjacent industry, but this is her first ever office job and she’s been here for just 2.5 years. So I have slightly more experience in what we do than she does but she has more in-house time at our company, so I’d consider us just about equal if we’re looking at salary bands for our roles here.

    Any advice is welcome!

    Reply ↓
    1. PX*

      I’m in a kind of similar situation – ultimately my take (and feedback from a colleague who I spoke to about a similar topic), the company will always do what’s best for them. Which means paying you as little as possible for as long as they can get away with it. Knowing that you will likely have to fight for any raise or pay adjustment in future, it’s up to you to decide if all the other things are worth it to stay.

      Personally I’m both agitating for a raise because there are a lot of other benefits I enjoy while being realistic that not being paid what I’m worth doesn’t sit well with me. I’ll focus on looking externally if I don’t get a satisfactory resolution in the next couple of months.

      Reply ↓
  36. New Manager*

    Looking for suggestions on talking to an employee who recently started chewing tobacco in a professional office setting… management wants to explain he can’t do that.. but we are having trouble coming up with reasons why, other than it’s gross and unprofessional. Help!

    Reply ↓
      1. dude, who moved my cheese?*

        Also, do you need a reason? Can you just say “you can’t do that,” “that’s not permitted in the office,” etc.

        Reply ↓
    3. Zona the Great*

      Is there really not a tobacco use policy for your workplace? That’s wild. Everywhere I’ve worked has a blanket no-use policy except at designated locations. There doesn’t even need to be a policy for anyone, even the guy’s peers, to tell him to stop. Do we really have to explain how disturbing it is to watch someone collect spit, or worse (gag), swallow it? Nope.

      “Jerry, I need to you to excuse yourself and dispose of the tobacco and your bottle right now. Please do both in a private location. Tobacco use is not permitted on campus/in the office/whatever.”

      Reply ↓
    5. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      Don’t get into explanations or negotiations with him.
      Update your handbook immediately – if you have one -to forbid tobacco chewing. EM everyone:
      “Everyone please note: Chewing tobacco at work is not allowed”

      If he ignores this, speak to him in person:
      “Please dispose of that tobacco immediately. As everyone was informed on (Date) chewing tobacco at work is forbidden”

      If he objects or asks why, sometimes a manager really does have to stop him and say “because that is the rule for everyone employed here. That is non-negotiable if you wish to keep your job”

      Reply ↓
      1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

        I don’t normally agree with EMing everyone about one person’s misdeeds, but you don’t want others to copy him and it helps to refer to state an official rule more clearly if one or more people don’t think something is covered by the rules.

        Reply ↓
    7. Charlotte Lucas*

      I’d be so tempted to say, “This is why.” And show a photo of my great uncle with a permanent stain next to his mouth after years of chewing.

      But a total ban on tobacco products would also work.

      Reply ↓
  37. Ann O*

    Who Gets Cake? The Staff Birthday Dilemma

    I work on the staff side in higher ed, where birthday celebrations in our subdivision are… let’s say, wildly inconsistent. In my first year, our Office Coordinator often asked me to chip in for birthday gifts. These were for other staff members, who’d get a card and a gift card. The Executive Director, though? They got the royal treatment—cake, decorations, and a $100 gift card. The ED even tells the assembled group every year that it’s too much and they need to stop, yet somehow, the tradition marches on.

    Then my birthday came around. And? Crickets. Feeling a little awkward, I brought it up with the ED. Their response? “Oh, those aren’t official or university-sanctioned celebrations; it’s just something some folks do for friends.” Ah, I see. Apparently, I’m not friend material. Cool, cool.

    After that, I stopped contributing. Fast forward a few years, and the team has grown significantly. We’ve got a new Office Coordinator who doesn’t ask for contributions anymore, but another manager picked up the tradition. And now? One of my direct reports recently asked me why her birthday wasn’t celebrated. Yikes.

    I’m stuck. I hate the idea of making staff chip in for gifts (feels unfair), and I’m not footing the bill for everyone’s birthday myself (I want to be generous but face financial constraints). We’re all underpaid – it’s higher ed.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a fair way to handle this? I’m not in a position to stop other managers from selectively celebrating their favorites, but I also don’t want my team feeling left out. Help!

    Reply ↓
    1. Little Miss Helpful*

      Approach the Office Coordinator with a suggestion, such as “circulate a card for each person” or “once a month, have a cake for all the [January] birthdays.”

      Reply ↓
  38. Hypoglycemic rage*

    Hi everyone,

    Last week, I shared about my boss being condescending and not trusting me.

    Since then, my co-clerk had left for another position and now I’ve also decided to look for other positions.

    My boss aside, I thought this job would be more projects and not admin. Admin isn’t really what I want to do, and there’s also no way to move to another position at my firm. I’m sure it’ll take awhile just given the holidays coming up, so I might make it a year at the firm without even trying. I want to find jobs that are more research or project based, not stocking kitchens or making coffee for attorneys.

    This is what I’d tell anyone who asks why I’m leaving, I obviously wouldn’t mention anything about my boss. I’ve never been someone who could find a job in a week, but hopefully this’ll be a relatively quick process. I almost would consider quitting for my mental health even with nothing else lined up, but that’s what happened with my last job (granted that was more because I didn’t want to get fired because they moved me to a team that wasn’t a good fit).

    I also decided I’m probably not going to say anything, largely because I am trying to leave. But my boss backtracks on what she says a lot, so I don’t totally trust her either.

    But I really want to say: Thank you all for validating me last week—it means a lot. Dealing with a tough boss on top of a challenging job isn’t easy. But I’m glad that all of this isn’t totally in my head.

    Reply ↓
  39. Dovima*

    I posted at least a month ago about my new job, which is supposed to be a lead role, the former person in the job who is not letting it go (Pat), my boss (Blake), and Blake’s boss (Marion).

    To recap, Pat moved out of the role to a new role, which is outside the department reporting chain and is at more of strategic level. The role is an entirely new one at the company, and things are still being figured out at the department level, as department heads are used to developing their own strategy. I was hired to back fill Pat’s lead role, and Blake and Marion both anticipated that Pat would start transitioning their duties once I came on board. And that has not happened. And Pat apparently has a bit of a history of cutting people out when they vex them. Which has happened to me. Blake and Marion are not ok with this, but Pat does not report to them, so they have limited influence. They also cannot damage the relationship due to Pat’s strategic role, as it would have blow back to our department. Where is Pat’s boss in all this? No idea.

    Note: Pat is really charismatic and likeable, and also very competent. Pat charms people into not noticing what a missing stair they are.

    Pat’s position is that they want me to build a relationship with the individual contributors, and they are going to monitor the relationship building and determine when I am ready to take on leadership responsibilities. Now, Pat is not wrong about needing to build relationships. There is just something about the approach that is rubbing me the wrong way, and I’m having trouble putting into words to be able to talk to my leadership about it.

    It’s just very convenient for Pat to use a completely subjective metric that only Pat can judge. And it puts the entire onus on me–I am hearing nothing about relationship building with me on the part of either Pat or the team. If I could describe it with body language, it’s equivalent of ending a conversation by leaning back in their chair, putting their feet up on their desk, and opening a newspaper while I stand there. I’m super fed up, and I’m having trouble coming up with calm, concise language to describe to my leadership why this is such a problem.

    Also happening is that Blake is stepping down as group lead to return to being an individual contributor. Marion is stepping down from department head to group lead so they can have more time to do individual contributor work. We hired a new department head from the outside, who has started but who has not met the department yet. As this is happening, it occurred to me that if Marion had told the new head, call them Robin, that Marion was going to hold on to the department head position until Robin built relationships within the department, Marion would very quickly be disabused of this course, and not just because Robin is actually their new boss but bc it’s absurd. I want to point this out, but, again, calmly and concisely.

    In other news, a different lead left the company entirely, so their project needs a champion and lead. I will be taking that on, so I won’t be entirely dependent on Pat for work. I don’t know if this is a large enough effort to take 100% of my time, however, so I don’t see myself being able to nope out of Pat’s project entirely. That would be ideal, tbh.

    Reply ↓
  40. Cynthia*

    I work in an academic library in the American South, and the emphasis on Christmas at my workplace is at a fever pitch behind the scenes, to the point where it’s spilling over to the patron side. About a third of the library employees aren’t Christian, so it’s wild to me that (seemingly) everyone is so into decorating miniature Christmas trees and blasting Mariah Carey at the department “holiday” party. I don’t practice religion anymore myself, but I grew up in a Christian denomination where Easter is the major holiday and a heavy emphasis on Christmas is frowned on, so I realize I have a bias here. My question is whether it’s worth it to push back, at least on the patron-facing side of things. Senior faculty has a reputation for being pretty anti-DEI, but I have more job security than most so if someone needs to say something it’d probably have to be me.

    Reply ↓
    1. In the middle*

      This reminds me of the time at my REQUIRED breakfast at a public school in Pennsylvania (on staff present-entire district) they started with a prayer. Me (atheist) and one other person (Jewish) just looked at each other in shocked dismay.

      Reply ↓
    2. Annony*

      Given their history of being anti-DEI, it probably isn’t worth it if it is limited to Christmas trees and Mariah Carey. If they are putting up Nativity scenes it would probably be worth it or “Keep Christ in Christmas” posters.

      Reply ↓
      1. ChristmasPervades*

        I, and many other non-Christians, see no difference between this and a nativity scene. They are both symbols of Christmas. And presumably the music would be unavoidable (and might also bother folks who don’t mind the other stuff because they expect/want quiet to concentrate). If I were a patron I’d be annoyed and I’d try to limit my time in the library as much as possible.

        Reply ↓
        1. HannahS*

          Ooh yeah, that’s a good point actually–I didn’t realize that some people from Christmas backgrounds don’t know that. To me, a Christmas tree and a nativity scene are equally Christian and are equally Christmassy. Mariah Carey and “Oh Holy Night” are exactly the same amount of “Christmas” to me, a Jew.

          Reply ↓
    3. HannahS*

      Honestly it would be so incredibly wonderful for someone from a Christian background to do this, instead of requiring the explicitly non-Christian coworkers to do it.

      Reply ↓
  41. YetAnotherFedContractor*

    I have an interview next week with a federal government agency that’s probably going to be a target of the incoming administration. The particular job is in the intellectual property field so it’s fairly non-political in nature. I’m not sure if I would take the job if offered (advantages would be getting back into government employment in a field better fitting my technical background, disadvantages would be the pay cut and being at a targeted agency, having to go through probationary period doing that). Any thoughts or advice?

    Reply ↓
    1. JFC*

      I think you’d be fine asking your interviewers about their perception of the future of the agency. I wouldn’t say “targeted” since there’s something that’s a little incendiary-sounding about that one, but I think some questions about any changes they are anticipating in light of the elected administration coming back in (to the agency as a whole and to your potential future role) wouldn’t be out of line.

      Reply ↓
  42. Chirpy*

    All I want for Christmas is a better job. I just found out that as “punishment” for snapping at a coworker during inventory last year, this year I will be in charge of counting ALL of the tiny parts. This means literally DAYS of standing on a stepstool with my arms straight ahead and leaning awkwardly forward. Two of the days are potentially 14 hours long.

    To be fair, I did yell at the guy last year, but he was supposed to do a task ahead of time that makes this job much easier, and screwed it up badly enough to make it more work. I apologized that day, and he no longer works here because he was useless. But normally, this job gets split up between at least 2 people (and usually 4) because it takes *forever*. And honestly, because of how my department head told me this, I kind of think she arranged this and the manager agreed to it. He never once said anything to me about it after that day, including at my evaluation. I am otherwise known for being pretty accurate on inventory counting.

    Help? I can’t call out sick on inventory, it will absolutely not go down well. But I will also be in pain for at least a week. And the odds of getting a new job by the end of this month are slim. Any encouragement is welcome, it just feels like all my coworkers hate me and I’ll never escape.

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      Ugh, I’m sorry you’ve been stuck with the worst of the inventory :(

      I don’t know if any of these suggestions will work for you, but in the interest of reducing pain, is it possible to:
      – move the bins/buckets/boxes of small parts to a table or the floor so you don’t have to count parts while standing on a step stool with your arms straight ahead (I’m assuming these small parts are in some sort of moveable container, but I could be wrong about that)
      – assuming these small parts are on a variety of shelf height, can you do inventory in columns (count one part on the highest shelf, then count a part on the next highest shelf, and so on, instead of counting a part on one shelf, then counting the part immediately to the left on the same shelf height)
      – stretch break between counting each part (arms, legs, back, any other body part that needs to be/can be stretched out)

      Also (if you haven’t already) look up tips for avoiding Repetitive Stress Injuries to see if there are any other ways you can avoid/minimize pain during inventory.

      Best of luck with the ongoing job search!

      Reply ↓
      1. Chirpy*

        The tiny parts are all hanging on pegs 4-6′ high, or in small non-moveable bins at the same height. Both are located above wider shelves, so you have to lean over. The bins you kind of have to pull everything out to count, but the pegs are a section about 30′ long and taking everything down to count and putting it back after would be far worse. There’s a specific work pattern management wants us to do to make sure nothing gets missed and so anyone checking later can follow what you did, so there’s not a great way to vary the motions. Literally the best I can hope for is getting the good stepstool….and maybe if I take long enough, they’ll send someone else over eventually :(

        Reply ↓
    2. Square Root of Minus One*

      Good luck and think of the lurch you’ll leave them in when it’s time to go ;)
      That’s what I’m doing today while I’m working stupid hours including on my day off to get everything done, to get a misery of a bonus (July) and see the big boss playing lovelies to one of his personal favorites while ignoring EVERYONE else in the room (yesterday).
      I wonder what it is that needs to be counted so bad, btw. I mean… Find a scale, weigh them all, weigh ten parts, cross multiply, done. The error should not be bigger than your counting error anyway, and that’s less damage for both eyes and body.

      Reply ↓
  43. nosferatwo*

    Anyone have experience with jobs that offer a “health and wellness stipend” instead of health insurance? I have an interview with a small company, and it’s unclear to me whether they offer insurance, or just the stipend. Obviously I’ll ask them for more details if they want to move forward with me, but it makes me hesitant.

    I’m in a relationship but not married and am over the age of 26, so I’d need to find a plan on my own. It sounds rather difficult and confusing, and I’m doubtful that I’d come out on top. The job looks very aligned with my experience though, and it’s almost fully remote.

    Reply ↓
    1. Sloanicota*

      I suspect we’re all going to be seeing more of this. I would be cautious. For a healthy person who doesn’t use much medical care in a year, it can seem tempting to go for an option like this, but it only takes *one* weird test result (or accident) to be in a very, very expensive world so I’m pretty suspicious. I also worry today’s prices on the health exchange aren’t going to be durable, and at least in my state they’re annoying to manage and the affordable plans are very high deductible “bronze” plans.

      Reply ↓
    2. Nusuth*

      I would also be really hesitant! Public health plans are much more expensive and much more of a pain than you’re probably even imagining, and will likely change a lot in January. I was freelance for a bit and the cheapest option on my state marketplace was $750/month for absolute bottom of the barrel coverage. If you do move forward, I would ask for a salary adjustment or boost to the stipend to cover an insurance plan that comes close to the level of coverage you had before – which will be EXPENSIVE and maybe a no-go for them.

      Reply ↓
    3. Annony*

      It is not that uncommon for small businesses to run the numbers and find that they cannot offer better than the marketplace. You can ask if there is an insurance agent they recommend to guide you though picking a plan. Usually, going through an agent is not more expensive than going directly to the website.

      Reply ↓
    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Worked for a very small company a while back that offered $X/month for me to get my own health insurance. Just needed to give them brief plan details once a year.

      I was early middle age at the time, single & no dependents, pretty healthy. It was enough to cover 70% of a pretty good plan.

      Reply ↓
  44. just a random teacher*

    Does anyone whose job mostly uses Google Workspace have any tips for keeping track of all of the documents you’re supposed to be keeping an eye on?

    I feel like I’m in a Google Docs swamp. I have so many different shared docs that I’m supposed to add things to at various points and I also get a ton of assignments from students in the form of shared docs so my recently viewed is a trashfire of 35 student copies of assignment A and 60 student copies of assignment B rather than the running agenda for the Tuesday meeting by the time next Tuesday rolls around or the weekly attendance spreadsheet for activity C.

    Right now I mostly deal with this by bookmarking things, but then it’s a constant struggle to curate and organize the bookmarks, and that also doesn’t help the other teachers to keep track of things since only I see my bookmarks. Is there a better way? There have been a LOT of times where someone (usually someone like a counselor or secretary who does not deal with student assignments) generates a Google Sheet that we’re all supposed to be tracking some group of students on over the next week/month/quarter and I really struggle to find the right sheet when I actually have time to enter the data. Often at least one of the teachers on my team will flat forget about one of the many, many docs and spreadsheets we’re supposed to keep updated and just not do it, then be surprised later when someone asks where their data is.

    It feels like we’re doing the digital equivalent of keeping all of our important papers stuffed at random in a backpack.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ashley*

      I star the things I really need, and I folder most other things like I would in a normal filing system. Also I would suggest at the end of the semester updating the locations and she if there are shared things that can be hidden in buried folders so you aren’t tripping over stuff.

      Reply ↓
    2. Exme*

      It might work to have an index doc that is a list of links to the docs you need to keep updated, with the index organized by how frequently you need to update or by type. Then you have the index starred or bookmarked as a favorite in your browser. Open it up regularly and click through to docs you need to update.

      Reply ↓
    3. Jeneral*

      I am absolutely terrible at filing, but I wonder if in your situation you could keep the links to what you need all on a single Google sheet? I am a teacher too, but my kids only turn in paper.

      Reply ↓
  45. Little John*

    Does anyone here work in a copyright-related or licensing-related role? If so, do you like your job? Please tell me about it. I’m hoping for recommendations and disrecommendations of fields, and suggestions of places I can learn more about how US and global copyright functions.

    Context: I am not a lawyer. My major job responsibility right now is obtaining the rights to use copyrighted materials in [project] from [copyright holder] on behalf of [a given client]. I enjoy my work and would love to do some professional development, including studying up about copyright law, expectations, requirements, and what fields tend to have to have someone on board to deal with intellectual property and copyrighted materials.

    Reply ↓
  46. Kesnit*

    This is prompted by a conversation I just had with a coworker.

    I’m a state-level prosecutor in a small office. Since there are only 5 attorneys in the office, “the elected” takes all murders (since he has to do all the administrative stuff, plus coordinate with the city and other agencies) and the rest of us split everything else. I was preparing for a jury trial earlier this week and could not get the necessary videos to burn to a disk. So I borrowed a USB drive from our office manager, copied the videos to that, and gave the USB to another attorney, Fergus, to burn to a disk I could submit as evidence.

    Fergus: “I just gave the USB back to [office manager]. She asked if I had deleted all the porn.”
    Me (laughing): “Yeah. But there are situations where we would have porn on a work disk.”
    Fergus: “Huh. I hadn’t thought about that. It’s weird some of the things we can do that would be illegal in any other circumstance.” He then brought up a time when he was a law clerk in another jurisdiction and, while sitting next to the judge at trial, the judge handed him the baggie of cocaine that had just been admitted as an exhibit.

    So does anyone have any stories of things that are perfectly normal at your work, but would be considered weird (or even illegal) in any other circumstance?

    Reply ↓
    2. Yes And*

      I work in a theater, and my office is right across the hall from wardrobe. When we did Sound of Music, it wasn’t at all uncommon to see a Nazi and a nun strolling down the hall engaged in friendly chitchat.

      Reply ↓
    3. Strive to Excel*

      Former financial auditor, looking at revenue source docs on a sample test. Client: public hospital (get big enough amounts of public funds and you’re also required to get an audit). They’d only gotten audited once before so we were still clarifying what we needed from them support-wise. They’d send over docs supporting existence of revenue. Was not expecting my support files to be graphic, full-color pictures of a surgical procedure. Closed that document very quickly and had an urgent call with the client scheduled soon after to clarify what exactly we needed as support for existence and what should probably be redacted (please).

      On a brighter note, I also audited a veterinary hospital and their revenue support docs included profile pictures of the patients. I saw a lot of Good Boys and Girls that day!

      Reply ↓
    4. Charlotte Lucas*

      Health care administration. Some people have to see very disturbing photos.

      I used to be a CSR, which could lead to intensely personal conversations with strangers.

      Reply ↓
        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          Customer Service Representative. I worked in a call center answering questions about a government health program.

          Reply ↓
    5. HannahS*

      In the hospital: The doses of hydromorphone we use to prevent withdrawal and manage pain for folks who use fentanyl would make a drug dealer sweat. They make ME sweat, if I go a couple of months without doing it.

      Similar to lawyers, the amount of open, casual conversations we have about sexual assault, child abuse, and violence would be considered pretty weird in other settings. Also people confess crimes to me with surprising regularity.

      Reply ↓
  47. Nicki Name*

    Small update:

    A few open threads ago, I asked about etiquette around applying to internal job postings. I did go ahead and tell my manager before I applied. He’s been professional about it, but clearly not enthusiastic.

    What I didn’t anticipate was my grandboss also taking an interest when the application finally moved to “in progress”. I guess the entire chain of command gets notified.

    I’ve got an interview next week, wish me luck!

    Reply ↓
  48. Sloanicota*

    Ok chat, I’ve been trying to figure out why I’m always behind at work, and I’ve come to realize that I have a *very* unrealistic (optimistic) sense of how long things are going to take. If someone asks me to do something, I tend to assume it can be done within the hour, but then I’m often surprised that it may take much, much longer. A minor example is that one of my tasks is to go fetch the mail from a nearby township. I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that this will take me a full hour (or, 50 minutes at least). But I’ve timed it, it does. It’s only ~15 minutes away. Having noticed this about myself, I’m trying to fix it. Is there anyone naturally great at estimating time that can weigh in on their tricks or tips? I’ve literally been setting a timer this week to see how long things “really” take, and I’m always surprised.

    Reply ↓
    1. ecnaseener*

      I’m not naturally good at it, quite the opposite, and you should keep setting your timers! It really helps you learn to calibrate. If you keep a to-do list, what I do is include a time estimate for every single item on the list. It helps prioritize, but it also helps me notice “oh wow, I put this down as a 90-minute task and it’s taken me 3 hours already.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Hlao-roo*

        I think this is a great idea! While you’re building your list of “actually timed tasks,” a good place to start might be taking your initial (optimistic) estimates and multiplying them by pi (as in, by 3.14). So when someone hands you a task and your initial assumption is 1 hour, tell the person 3 hours. Then time the task, and record the actual time in the list ecnaseener suggested.

        Reply ↓
    2. WorkerDrone*

      I find that breaking things down to their smallest components helps me. For example, getting mail.

      Turn off computer, get my coat and gather my bag/stuff, get out the door: 5 minutes
      Walk to my car, get settled, choose music, etc: 5 minutes
      Driving time there: 15 minutes
      Get inside, wait for service, get the mail: minimum of 5 minutes, maximum ??
      Driving time back: 15 minutes
      Walking back into the office, take coat off, settle: 5 minutes

      There you go, 50 minutes. My biggest problem used to be thinking of the main task as the only thing that takes time: Getting the Mail probably literally only takes 35 minutes (the drive both ways, plus 5 minutes to get the mail from the post office).

      But it’s so easy to forget about all the tiny stuff along the way that might extend how long a task takes – like getting all your winter outdoor clothes on (coat, hat, scarf, gloves), or even the walk to the car from the office (always longer than I think lol).

      So if someone asks you to make a report, the report itself might take an hour. But how long does it take to pull the data for the report? Check it over so to be sure it’s correct? Go back and get clarification if there are questions on it? How long do you spend thinking while you work – I am sure you need to stop and consider where data might go or how to best present it occasionally? The report itself might take an hour, but does that include the time fiddling with formatting and font size and whatnot? How often do you need to stare out the window? (Literally. I stare out my window to take breaks from staring at my screen, and to give my brain a brief “rest and renew” break. I might do this for 2-3 minutes every hour or so.)

      There are sooo many little things that go into one task, and they each take a little time. So little time that, individually, none of them matter and it’s easy to dismiss them all. But add them up and suddenly you realize a task might take quite a bit longer than you think.

      Reply ↓
      1. Sloanicota*

        This is a great comment because I think even now, I’m assuming I’m “screwing around” and that’s taking the extra time, so if I could stop screwing around, then the thing would take the Time It’s Supposed To, According to Me. I need to truly internalize that all these little things are part of the task.

        Reply ↓
      2. Sneaky Squirrel*

        All this. Factor in interruptions and personal needs too. My job, I could get a message from 5 different people within the hour all demanding my time for “quick asks”. If I answered all of them, even for just 5 minutes, that’s almost a half an hour on other work. Or, sometimes I just need to get up and stretch away from the computer.

        Reply ↓
      3. Tinamedte*

        I so wish the higher-ups who assign work would realize this, too!

        “So, Tinamedte, this [highly complex] task [that depends on a lot of time-consuming factors I can’t possibly control]… could you have it done by the end of the week?”

        “Erhm, no? Next question, please!”

        Reply ↓
      4. JFC*

        This is how I figured out why I need to allocate at least 30 minutes to get to the office if I’m going in that day (we have a hybrid/remote setup) even though it’s less than a 15 minute drive from my house. Five minutes at home to get packed and settled in the car, 12-ish minute drive, another five minutes to find a parking spot and walk to the office door, then 10-15 minutes to get inside, set up my computer for the day, grab a coffee or water and maybe a brief morning chat with the office manager if we both have time.

        Reply ↓
    3. Sneaky Squirrel*

      Keep in mind that ‘thinking about the task’ and ‘preparing for the task’ adds time to the task (and is also considered work). It’s only 15 minutes away, but you have to think about doing the task, preparing yourself to go fetch the mail by finding keys, coats, etc., do the drive, receive service, drive back, getting situated by removing coats, keys, etc., and then doing what you needed to with the mail.

      You also want to build in time in case you need to switch priorities too. When someone asks me to complete a report, I can usually turn it around in an hour or two of steady focused work. But realistically, I have an email box that I’m checking at regular intervals, colleagues sending me messages through teams with their competing asks, and occasionally I have personal needs too – bathroom breaks, need to stretch, food needs. These are all things that should be factored into time estimates too.

      Reply ↓
    4. Massive Dynamic*

      Time blindness! I have this too. First step is knowing that you fall into that trap, which you’re already conquering. Second step is to learn how much to pad the time you think something takes with X amount, to usually land on the time things really take. If my brain says that something takes two hours, I allocate three hours.

      Reply ↓
  49. JadziaSnax*

    Anyone have any words of wisdom for an (undiagnosed, hoping to get a formal dx soon) ADHD-er who somehow ALWAYS misses small details, no matter how hard she tries?? It’s not as bad as when I was in copyediting (when attention to detail was literally the entire job), but twelve years into my career it’s really demoralizing to have the exact same conversation with the fourth boss in a row telling me “remember, just make sure to double check everything before sending it, don’t be afraid to read it over that third time.” I try to remember to slow down, and have done all the little things like making checklists and stuff, but when tasks take on a sense of urgency or I’m particularly busy it’s the first thing to fall through the cracks.

    I’m good enough at all other parts of my job that this has never signficantly brought down a performance review but it is always where I get low rankings. I’m so frustrated with myself and feeling really like there’s no way to ever improve.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ariana*

      use the ‘read aloud’ function for the second or third review. Sometimes hearing something brings out an error that you missed due to familiarity (compose and first review).

      Reply ↓
    2. Mad Scientist*

      As a fellow ADHD-er, my only advice is medical help. Medication doesn’t work for everyone, but it has saved my life and my career in many ways. The other strategies you’ve mentioned *can* help some people, but for me, nothing made a real difference until medication. Sometimes you really can’t simply checklist your way out of a disability.

      Reply ↓
  50. CzechMate*

    There is an employee at my company who has gone full-on bananapants, and I’m not sure if I should say something.

    I have a work friend (“Jane”) who manages reception. A woman in another department (“Sansa”) has latched on to Jane. As in, bombards her with texts with very personal information all day, every day. As in, will spend hours (literal hours) at a time talking at Jane. As in, gets extremely jealous and territorial if Jane tries to politely signal that she needs to get back to work, or if someone tells Sansa that *she* needs to go back to her own desk.

    It’s become a borderline stalking situation. Jane literally barricades herself in her office to avoid talking to Sansa, literally trying not to use the bathroom or go out for coffee for fear of being accosted. Sansa’s manager was told that she was spending too much time chatting at the front desk and gave her a warning, but Sansa ignored the warning and becomes openly hostile if anyone suggests she can’t see Jane.

    Jane has confided all of this to me (we are the same age, but I’m higher up on the org chart, on the same level with Sansa). I do not supervise anyone in this situation. Jane is hesitant to tell Sansa directly to leave her alone (Sansa is higher than her on the org chart, which is part of the issue). I have told Jane that I recommend she talk to her manager, Sansa’s manager, or the office director directly to say that this situation has become completely out of hand. In my view, the issue ultimately is one of management–someone needs to sit Sansa down and say, on no uncertain terms, “You are causing a distraction and making another employee uncomfortable. Doing your work and letting other people do theirs is a core job requirement. I need you to…” However, Jane has been hesitant to bring this up to management–I think out of fear of retribution (which, of course, is another huge issue and one that she should ALSO tell management.)

    Given all of that–I’m wondering if *I* should go to the managers myself and say, “Jane does not want to bring this up out of fear of retribution, but she has told me some very concerning things and it needs to be Dealt With.” What do you all think?

    Reply ↓
    1. Ms. Norbury*

      Sansa’s behavior sounds pretty alarming, in Jane’s place I’d more than a little uncomfortable. Does your company have decent HR?

      Reply ↓
    3. Hlao-roo*

      Sansa’s manager was told that she was spending too much time chatting

      Who spoke the Sansa’s manager the first time? You, Jane, someone else? This isn’t a super important detail, but it does show that yes, it’s OK for people to bring up issues with managers about their direct reports!

      I definitely think you should raise this issue with management. You know your organization, so you probably have a good idea if your proposed “I am bringing this up on behalf of Jane” script is the best approach or if maybe “I have witnessed Sansa being openly rude and hostile to (myself and) others who politely ask her to go back to her desk when she is talking with Jane” would work better. But whatever approach you take, please do take it to management so they can deal with Sansa. I think the whole office (besides Sansa) will thank you!

      Reply ↓
    4. tabloidtained*

      When you say, “Sansa […] becomes openly hostile if anyone suggests she can’t see Jane,” what does that look like?

      Reply ↓
    5. RagingADHD*

      I think it would be a good thing for you to go to Sansa and Jane’s managers, and possibly HR, because you can speak to what you have seen and heard. But you should clear it with Jane first. She owns the story / problem, and you should hold off if she’s worried about retaliation from Sansa.

      Reply ↓
    6. CzechMate*

      To answer some of these questions: in a staff meeting Jane broke down and told the director of our department (“Arya”) that she wasn’t able to focus on her work because Sansa spent so much time at her desk. Arya therefore went to Sansa’s manager and asked them to speak to her. My understanding is that they both had a watered-down version of what was going on. Even then, Sansa cornered Arya in the work kitchen and said, “Have you been talking to my manager about me??” (Keep in mind, Arya is a department director, Sansa is like a program manager.) Arya said, “I don’t think this is an appropriate conversation to have in the kitchen, but if you’d like to set up a meeting I’d be more than happy to talk to you about this.” Sansa never did, but Jane told me that she was FLOODED with texts and calls and voice memos about how unfair it all was, and after a few weeks it continued.

      Part of the issue also is that in all of these rant sessions during work and calls/texts after work, Sansa has confided to Jane that she has some serious mental health issues and thoughts of self-harm. On more than one occasion, Jane has wondered if she needs to call the police to conduct a welfare check. Again, I’ve said, “This is above your pay-grade. Sansa’s manager needs to talk to her because this is not okay.” I think some of Jane’s hesitation is that she genuinely wants Sansa to get therapy and medication. Again, I’ve said, “Then say that to her manager and say you think she needs information about the EAP.”

      Reply ↓
  51. Twish*

    Hope this isn’t too off-topic for a Friday open thread — is anyone here trying to retire early in the US? I’m 39 and I have $650k invested in 401k/IRA index funds. I feel like I’m on the right track but wonder if anyone has experimented with dialing their career waayyy back once you realized you could kind of coast through until Medicare kicks in? Or are you planning to take in as much cash as possible so you can have EVEN MORE retirement money starting at 65?

    Reply ↓
    1. Zona the Great*

      I think it is advised for one to have more than double that at retirement and that’s at the traditional retirement age. Are you planning to continue at all or are you looking to stop now? I have read repeatedly that retiring early is one of the most detrimental things you can do to your financial health and my own financial advisor (licensed and all that, not just some dude) has concurred.

      Reply ↓
    2. Who knows*

      I’d love to do FIRE, but unfortunately I had to spend the first ~8 years of my career paying off debt, so it’s not mathematically feasible for me. A couple years ago I did go down to 0.8 FTE because I decided I’d rather have the time than the money. It confuses people, but it did help my overall well-being. I now actually have free time outside of work and life management tasks.

      Reply ↓
    3. Laggy Lu*

      You should talk to a professional that can help you understand how far your money will go. Where will you be living? Will you have a mortgage? How will you handle medical insurance? is your 401k your only retirement savings?
      My husband and I will retire early (him at 60 and me at 56 – although I may work a little longer). We have a financial advisor who is helping us with various investments. The biggest one being, we will be mortgage/debt free in retirement. So we will be able to live on a lot less than we currently are annually.
      We don’t have kids, and we save as much as possible. We still travel and enjoy life now, but we a definitely trying to get out as early as possible.

      Reply ↓
    4. Hlao-roo*

      I’ve thought about both full early retirement and also “save up a lot in 401k/IRA early in my career, then switch to a lower stress/lower paid job that pays the bills and coast to retirement.” I think you’re talking about the second one here. If so, I think you should look into some models that can predict how much that $650K when you stop working for good (age 65? so another 26 years of growth before you start to draw on your retirement savings). Then look at that number along with Laggy Lu’s questions.

      Reply ↓
    5. Busy Middle Manager*

      Coast Fire is a popular idea, I’ve been doing the math on it. The thing is, so many stocks are in an insane manic bubble at the moment, that many people in the FIRE community have an insane level of bravado right now. This feels like the week before the 2021-2022 crash or dot com peak, and many stocks are at the levels they reached during those (briefs) peaks. We’re pricing in an insane amount of positive news that has not materialized yet: strong labor market (while job listings have been decreasing and UI claims were up to 240K this week), tax cuts, no impact of tariffs, continued government spending to fuel GDP growth, and the most insane: 13-15% earnings growth (YOY was 5.8% which is completely average).

      So I know this is not an investment community and I veered off topic, so to bring it back to work/retirement, I am strongly convinced that “the math doesn’t math.” You put that 650K into a compound interest calculator, it says you’re basically done saving for retirement. In reality, we’re repeating many steps leading up the dotcom burst that led to a decade of no growth (the 2000s) – and that’s not even worst-case scenario (as opposed to a 2008 type event). We’re in unprecedented times in a few ways, one being that even bonds can crash.

      Reply ↓
    6. FIRE Fan*

      I am in the US and did retire early 7 years ago. My partner and I did full retirement (no part time jobs or career step back) because we were both in very intense careers that didn’t lend themselves to part time work, but for some people the income stream and schedule structure of having a less demanding job is perfect. A lot depends on the nature of your work and your own preferences about how you’d like to spend your time. There are plenty of resources online that explore the concept of building a big retirement fund early and then just earning enough to pay the bills until traditional retirement age — search for “Coast FIRE.” And don’t be dissuaded from your dream of early retirement. It’s completely manageable with a decent retirement balance and disciplined spending, which is sounds like you have.

      Reply ↓
  52. Manders*

    Not really a question, but just wanted to say that I get to put everything I’ve learned from this site about cover letters to use this week. My boss wants to promote me, and the best way to do that at our public university is have me apply for a new position and then close my current position. I already have the job so the cover letter is just a formality, but I still want to do a good job with it.

    Reply ↓
    1. Keladry of Mindelan*

      Woohooooo!! Congratulations on your promotion :)

      I also work in higher ed and for my current (new) position, I was asked to apply months before the position was posted and, as far as I know, was the only candidate. However, I used everything I’ve ever learned from Alison and the hiring committee was so impressed with my cover letter that they asked to redact it to share with students seeking services from the career center.

      Reply ↓
  53. Keladry of Mindelan*

    I started a new job last month and it has been absolutely wonderful! However, there are a couple of things I could use some advice on–

    I have one official supervisor and another who is more of an unofficial supervisor/advisor for my position (it’s a university and a grant and it gets messy sometimes). They are both fantastic humans who do great work and I like them personally and professionally. Unfortunately, there have been multiple occasions where they have opposite takes on a situation or have conflicting priorities. I’ve navigated that before as an executive admin for three C-levels at a non-profit, but this is tricky because of the unofficial status of my secondary “supervisor.” How do I navigate my status as a middleman?

    My second question is related to my official supervisor–I absolutely adore him and we work well together. However, when we have 1:1s, phone calls, or other conversations I can’t get a word in edgewise. He just really likes to talk. He also takes about twice as much time to say something as I would and a lot of times it’s something I already know and/or agree with him on. It’s not that I don’t see the value in listening to him and I certainly want to respect his time, energy, and expertise. But…I need to talk too sometimes. How do I gracefully “interrupt” (if I don’t, I literally will not be able to talk AT ALL. And even if I do, he will just keep on talking over me) without being rude? To be clear, it’s not a gender thing–I’ve observed him doing this in every conversation I’ve heard him have. Perhaps it’s because my last few supervisors were much quieter and more inclined to listen, think, and then speak, but this is becoming so frustrating.

    Reply ↓
  54. Charley*

    Seeking advice for someone interested in environmental non-profit type work: I am currently in graduate school full time working towards a research based MS in an environmentally relevant scientific field. My school has an optional certificate program in sustainability, which is theoretically supposed to provide a more humanities informed perspective. I’ve been taking classes towards the certificate, but I’ve found them to be extremely surface level and not useful to me, even though I’m interested in the overall topic. I’m tempted to drop the certificate next semester in order to claw back some of my time to work on my thesis research. Is this a short-sighted move? For folks working in the environmental space, how much does a certificate matter? Would your employer care whether candidate with an environmental MS also had some kind of ‘sustainability’ credential? Would it depend on the specific job? Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. Laggy Lu*

      Definitely would depend on the job or field. Non-profits can still be very industry specific, for example I work in forestry, but also in broader “environmental non profit.”
      Unless the sustainability credential is some sort of nationally recognized certification or credential, I would agree with you to focus on the purpose of your MS.
      One caveat I will point out, is if the certification includes soft skills, or general adaptive management training that would help in the non-profit world. An MS is desirable for a lot of places, but not everyone with an MS can be the generalist that is so often needed at lean orgs.

      Reply ↓
      1. Charley*

        Thanks! There definitely is a focus on soft-skills, but many of the class sessions are shared with undergrads, so the skills that might be new to them mostly feel like reinforcement of competencies I developed through my time in the workforce before going back to school.

        Reply ↓
  55. Nusuth*

    I could use a bit of advice on how to deal with a coworker wanting to enlist me to press for changes from our boss…but I don’t think it’s warranted. My small team of three (two analysts and our boss, a senior analyst) produces a thrice-weekly publication that is a significant amount of work, in addition to other stuff. Things have gotten a little busier, there keep being promises of a lot of new work coming down the pike, and a third analyst hire that was promised seems to be delayed. My peer wants to push our boss to cut the publication to twice a week, citing workload. The thing is …. My workload is fine. I’ve had one or two very busy periods of about a week of nose to the grindstone vibes, and had to work til 7:30 once in the last year (boss let me leave early the next day, despite all of us being exempt). My coworker is constantly stressed and working late, and in my opinion mostly by his own doing (making work for himself, turning things in days early which becomes the standard, etc).

    While there may be some reasons to cut to two (delayed third hire, make time for more billable work), I mostly feel like we should leave this alone and address it if at any point it DOES become unmanageable at a team level. But I also want to be a supportive coworker, and I wouldn’t say no to a reduced schedule of publication if it was offered. What should I say to my coworker? All of this is colored by the fact that I don’t really like him – so I worry I’m either over-compensating or being too harsh.

    Reply ↓
    1. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

      I would probably start by letting them know they can just start by cutting back and readjusting their expectations. I’ve been in your co-worker’s shoes, so perhaps that’s part of why I’d still give attention to his desire for change, but even if you don’t want to help out in the end, I’d seriously consider if it’s because of your own feelings of dislike or if you think it shouldn’t matter how busy other people are so long as you’re not.

      It’s also possible that you’re better at advocating for yourself and your time/work than he is, so you could maybe see if that’s it and push him to start there. It’s not your responsibility, of course, but lots of things aren’t our responsibility but still serve an importance. It sounds like it’s not entirely in his head that the workload is a bit overwhelming. Perhaps you’re just better at managing it and he isn’t.

      Reply ↓
      1. Nusuth*

        Thank you, this is helpful – I definitely don’t want to completely cut him loose or invalidate that he is stressed, I think I am just waffling on whether this should be a one-on-one discussion between him and our boss or a team-wide workload distribution. My plan right now is to be supportive but suggest approaching cutting our schedule from a slightly different angle, and encouraging him to use some different tools to manage his own workload separately.

        Reply ↓
    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      10 years of my career was working in a group of analysts. No two analysts, even in the same pool, do the same things. May I ask, are you 100% sure their extra work is unnecessary. I am asking because I’ve heard these sorts of things about myself. Usually the other party was wrong, and I was fixing something that hell into one of a few buckets:

      A) A real issue that is just as important as the delegated/repeat work but impossible for upper management to find, so they’d never delegate it
      B) Something so ridiculously bad that no one was looking for it or believed me it was a real issue
      C) Data integrity/cleanup work that doesn’t appear like “work,” because technically it could’ve all been prevented if other people did their jobs correctly
      D) Investigating potential issues that turned out to be one-off/not worth turning into a project

      Also, may I ask, if you’re doing the same reports 3X a week, shouldn’t the focus be on perfecting the automation of said reports, so this is a non-issue?

      Reply ↓
  56. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

    How do you deal with making a mistake at work or miscommunication, especially after coming from a toxic job that had you questioning your every move?

    I’m in a new and wonderful job with a lot of moving parts. My team is small, and I love my manager, but we work with many different teams and some of those staff are hard to work with because they don’t seem to realize I’m new and need a bit more information/attention when completing a project. I recently overstepped because my manager misunderstood something, and while logically I get that it’s an innocent mistake that doesn’t change much in the end, I still feel pretty annoyed and bad about the whole thing. Like I have a big L on my forehead and people are thinking I don’t know anything.

    But also, I DON’T know most of these things and no one is really willing to help me learn them. I’ve sort of just been expected to pick up like I’ve always been there, and when I reach out with questions, they’re already so annoyed!

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      I’ve sort of just been expected to pick up like I’ve always been there, and when I reach out with questions, they’re already so annoyed!

      Do you preface your questions with something along the lines of “I’m new here so I need a bit more context. Can you tell me XYZ?” Of do you just ask “Can you tell me XYZ?” If it’s the first, I think it’s rude of them to be annoyed. If it’s the second, they probably don’t remember/keep track of who is new outside of people on their immediate teams. Try adding in a little bit of explainer before asking your questions and see if that cuts down on the annoyance.

      Reply ↓
      1. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

        I have done the first, especially when I was very, very new. I’m only six months in now, but the people who are annoyed are ones who know I am new. We see each other in person all the time, and my manager was great about introducing me to everyone. It’s just that they seemed annoyed from the very beginning, so I’m wondering how to approach it now that I’m months in, getting new tasks with little to no information, and then dealing with their big reactions when I don’t do things perfectly. It’s very frustrating!

        For example, I sent out an email to someone I know works with this particular department and is in charge. They directed me to another person whom I’d sent an email to for a different reason a few weeks ago. They’re in the same department but work with two very different things–at least, that was my understanding. But when I did that, it apparently looked bad and this coworker of mine got very annoyed and went off about how I was complicating things by reaching out to them about something they’d already discussed. But this coworker had never mentioned any of the changes or the conversations they were having, so how was I to know? Especially when my manager is asking me to find this information out–my manager who is one of the leaders of the projects–and we’re nearing the deadline.

        Instead, the coworker made it seem like I had committed this sin of not knowing who to reach out to but my first instinct isn’t to reach out to some VP for something small! It may just be that this coworker doesn’t care much for me or that everyone takes their work far too, too seriously to allow any kind of ignorance.

        Reply ↓
        1. ferrina*

          This is a very strange work environment. How are your coworkers in general? Are they this prickly with everyone?

          First, know that at 6 months in, people are generally fully onboarded. You aren’t really the new person anymore. Yes, a task is new to you, but others have stopped thinking of you as “the new person” and aren’t tracking what you have/haven’t done. Should they have done a much better job training you when you first started? Yes. But there’s not much you can do about that now.

          Second, how are you setting up these questions? Are you saying “Hey, I’ve never done this before, can I pick your brain for a few minutes?” Or are you launching straight into the questions. I’ve found that even saying “Hey, sorry if this is a stupid question….” immediately gets goodwill because I’m acknowledging that their time is important and I’m appreciating it. Similarly, on emails, I’ll lead off with “Apologies in advance if you aren’t the right person for this- I wasn’t entirely sure who this should go to, and I thought it might be you because [reason].” I do a lot of sending emails to people who may or may not know the thing, and I’ve had great success with this.

          Finally, invest in cultivating relationships with these coworkers. It sounds like it generally isn’t their job to train you, and they don’t like training you (it sounds like no one has been assigned to train you, which is a big issue, but it’s an issue with your manager/organization, not with your coworkers). Asking for ad hoc training can be a burden, so build up goodwill with your coworkers in other ways. Chat over coffee. Ask them how their weekend was. Volunteer to help, saying “I’m happy to jump in where you need me, but I’ll need a bit of guidance”. Figure out how to make their life easier, and they’ll be more likely to return the favor.

          Sounds like a frustrating situation for all involved, and I hope everyone is able to extend each other some grace. Good luck!

          Reply ↓
          1. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

            Thanks for the advice! I agree with no longer being the new person, but I think it still feels that way because they don’t hire very often/frequently. It’s a job where people easily stay for 15+ years. I also say I’m the “new” person because my manager refers to people who’ve been here for a year as new.

            I like the wording you’ve used in how to ask for guidance, especially for email. I certainly haven’t done that in these recent emails because I figure it’s annoying to send that to the same person multiple times (in my example, I’ve reached out to that individual on multiple occasions but the extent of their role is unknown to me, hence the mix-up). I will say there are two things that contribute to my issues, which is that I’m in an office in another building–and there are so many politics around someone like me having my own office when people higher up have to share an office with multiple people!–and the vibes have just been off from day one with this particular individual. I’m more understanding about others’s frustrations because we’re interacting through email, mostly.

            That said, I understand my coworker’s frustrations because I imagine it would be annoying having to deal with someone pestering you with questions that seem obvious. I’d probably think better of them if their initial response (from the very first one, by the way!) was not one of frustration. It just seems like they’re someone who doesn’t like to be bothered, and everything is a bother. Fortunately, most people here have been much different.

            Reply ↓
            1. ferrina*

              Hmm. If your immediate team is wonderful, can you get guidance from them? “Hey, I need to reach out to Person about Thing. Do you think it would bug them if I included several questions?”
              You can add either: “I haven’t really worked with Person much” or “I’ve been having trouble figuring out how many questions are too much for Person, and I want to make sure I’m not being annoying.”
              Approach this as “how can I put my best foot forward?”

              There’s a chance that people will tell you that Person is just prickly and there’s nothing you can do, or they could give you really helpful information (maybe this person is really nice and it’s just their writing style; maybe they are under a lot of pressure from unrelated thing, etc).

              Reply ↓
              1. Hlao-roo*

                Ha, I didn’t see your comment while I was writing up my very similar “lean on your immediate team and maybe That One Person is just prickly” comment! Good to know we’re on the same wavelength here.

                Reply ↓
        2. Hlao-roo*

          That does sound frustrating!

          For knowing who to reach out to, could your manager or teammates help out with that? On my team, it would be very normal for me to ask a coworker “hey, I need to reach out to Department X for information Y. Is Tim the right person to ask?” And they can either say “yes,” or “oh, go straight to VP Jane for anything to do with Y.”

          Also, if I’m reading all of your responses correctly, it sounds like most of the frustrated vibes you’re getting are from one person? (Or maybe you’re talking about one example of getting frustrated vibes/responses, but it’s representative of multiple interactions with multiple coworkers.) If it is mostly just this one coworker, can you chalk it up to “Tim being Tim” and focus on the information he sends you while ignoring his annoyance?

          Reply ↓
  57. Ann Onymous*

    Thought people here might appreciate this little tidbit of ridiculous corporate bureaucracy. I work for a very large company and just started a new role which required relocating to a different building about a mile down the road from my old one. There are 2 different styles of “standard” office chairs floating around our offices, and I find the style I had in my old building much more comfortable than the other style that was at my new desk. Facilities will not move standard chairs and moving items yourself risks a large fine from the union. But the company is willing to purchase a new chair of my preferred style for my new desk.

    TL;DR: My employer would rather buy me a new desk chair than move my perfectly good existing chair less than a mile to a different building.

    Reply ↓
    1. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

      Corporate bureaucracy is so fascinating if you’re not spending so much time annoyed by it! I think they ask themselves: How can I complicate this very simple thing? What are the ways this molehill can become a mountain?

      Reply ↓
  58. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

    I went through an application process last month for an internal job that I was positive that I would not get, and if I did get it then it would come with a pay cut I wouldn’t accept.

    Well, guess what. :D

    Next month, I am going from managing 2 teams with 30 direct reports, to being an individual contributor, and I cannot even tell you how excited I am to not have DRs for a while. However, I am also going from 10 years of working 100% remotely to hybrid – two days a week in office basically – and I am driving myself crazy with overthinking about how to plan for that and what do I need to do and and and. :P I think I will have assigned workspace, not hot-desking, and I’m generally good on the dress code for the office space. And I have clothes-shopping on my list.

    Helpful hints, in either a do or do not do vein?

    Reply ↓
    1. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

      As someone who just went through something similar, I don’t have much to offer except that your first few in-person interactions might feel weird and awkward and that’s fine! You might feel like a fish out of water, but that’s perfectly normal, and as you learn your new workspace, you’ll grow more comfortable. But if it feels weird at first, it’s not because you’re weird or anything. It’s just a different environment that’s going to take some getting used to!

      Reply ↓
  59. Jenn*

    So how exactly does WhatsApp work? I don’t use it, so I am clueless! I received a voicemail from someone in Europe who gave me her WhatsApp number to call her back. At my office, we use Teams. Can I call her number through Teams or do I have to use WhatsApp (which I’d rather not as I’d have to use my personal cell phone number as opposed to my work number.) I’m hoping that once I get in contact with her, I can shift communication to e-mail, given the 7 hour time difference!

    Reply ↓
    1. Username Required*

      Her WhatsApp number is just another name for her mobile number. You should be able to call the phone number from Teams like you would any international number.

      Reply ↓
    2. Kesnit*

      I’ve only used WhatsApp a few times, but IIRC, it does not show your work number. It shows your WhatsApp account name. (But yes, it does require you to use a cell phone as opposed to a work phone.)

      Reply ↓
      2. PX*

        Nope. Unless it’s a business account which are structured differently you can definitely see people’s phone numbers in WhatsApp.

        Reply ↓
    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Whats App is a mobile app. It’s my understanding that it’s extremely popular in some parts of Europe, especially with younger people. Maybe the pricing plan on their phone is more expensive for SMS & actual phone calls, as opposed to app data traffic?

      You can use it as a chat tool (it’s especially good for managing multiple group chats, like a weekly recreational sports league). I’ve done a voice call or two with somebody in Europe using it too.

      It’s likely that their WhatsApp number is also a regular phone number. So you can claim cluelessness/corporate IT resource restrictions, and just call that number.

      Reply ↓
    4. CherryBlossom*

      Whatsapp is essentially a separate phone app you install on your smartphone. It’s popular in Europe, Asia, and South America because it lets you text and call without any international/roaming fees.

      I don’t know all the technical details, but since it uses your pre-existing phone number, both users would need to use Whatsapp to make calls through the app instead of directly to a phone (which risks international fees). Which means you’d need to use a smartphone and install the app if she wants to be contacted via Whatsapp.

      You can try her number through Teams; it will go directly to her phone, so she’ll see it, but she might not want to pick up an international non-whatsapp call. Unfortunately I can’t really think of a work-around here unless you have access to a company-provided smartphone.

      Reply ↓
    5. PX*

      For most people a WhatsApp number just means their regular cellphone number so that’s likely what she was implying. If you can call international numbers from Teams then yes you could call her that way, but in some European countries they would get charged for recieving an international call (Vs if it was a regular WhatsApp call). Assuming it’s a work phone number for them that is hopefully less of an issue.

      Reply ↓
  60. Mad Scientist*

    What sorts of things have you (or would you) mention in an exit interview?

    Obviously, it’s unwise to unload all your grievances, but it also feels awkward not to give any feedback at all (which is what I tried to do last time I went through this a couple years ago, but they just kept pressing, and it was hard to think of anything meaningful to say).

    Do you mention petty issues, like idk, the sinks in the bathroom are always broken so you might want to fix that, even though it’s obviously not why I’m resigning? Do you actually try to be constructive? Do you just sit there in a staring contest with HR until one of you caves?

    Reply ↓
    1. Samantha Jones, Inc.*

      It really depends on your feelings for the workplace, people, management as well as who you’ll be doing the exit interview with and whether you hope to use the company as a reference and/or believe what you say might jeopardize that.

      I hated my previous job, the workplace, and my manager especially. I remained as vague as possible without mentioning anyone in particular (unless it was good), but they shouldn’t have been surprised because I had already mentioned my issues with the company many times before. Perhaps you have as well.

      But also…you’re leaving, so it doesn’t matter all that much. Take it easy and enjoy your last few days/hours. And congratulations on moving on!!

      Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      I’ve only really used exit interviews when I really need to blow a whistle. My last boss violated civil rights so I put all my evidence there because doing it while employed there would have been too much for me. Otherwise I give them BS blah blah blah because I need the rehire status.

      Reply ↓
    3. ferrina*

      My favorite exit interview went something like the conversation below. It was at a small company (less than 100 people). I’d been polite but open when I saw an issue, and many of the issues were widely known across the company.

      HR: Is there feedback that you’d like to share with the company?
      Me: I’ve been pretty open with my feedback during my time here. Did you have any questions about my feedback or anything you wanted me to talk about?
      HR: …
      Me: …
      HR: Well, I don’t have any other questions written down.

      Reply ↓
      2. Zona the Great*

        Yes! It’s like the last break up I had after months of begging for things to change. “I don’t understand why you won’t have this conversation with me so I have closure and can understand where I went wrong”. And you never will, sir.

        Reply ↓
  61. Anon4This*

    My nonprofit has recently implemented a new process for sending donors to talk to the president, and it is so very process.

    First you submit a form. The form is reviewed by a small sub-committee. If the sub-committee approves, you are invited to the next (monthly) meeting with the bigger committee where you can pitch your case. If the committee approves, you then are permitted to email the president and her EA to ask if you can schedule with her. If the president approves, you can then email the donor and offer to introduce them.

    I went through this whole process over the past couple of weeks, got an excited response from the donor and absolute crickets from the EA. I sent her an email to say “hey, what’s the easiest way for us to find a time with the president” and she absolutely bit my head off and told me not to talk to her until the new year! So now I get to go back to the donor and say “never mind for now, I’ll let you know in a few weeks”. And also let the team know that apparently we should wait for approval from the EA before contacting the donor. Yikes.

    Reply ↓
      1. Slippers*

        Seriously. Apparently your nonprofit does not care for money. And…. it’s time for year-end giving. Waiting until the new year does nothing????

        Reply ↓
  62. Prosaic*

    So I’m dealing with a low-performer and trying to focus on their performance issues, but it’s starting to impact the way I view their other behaviors as well. For example, they regularly come in on the later side and then proceed to load up clearly non-work-related things on their monitors (think Wordle or Farmville) that just stay up the whole day. My boss and even my grandboss already know this person isn’t performing well, and I feel like this just…kind of makes it worse. Yet, I don’t want the solution to be “at least pretend you’re working.”

    Is it ever okay to address some behavior that can give others a negative impression of someone, even if it’s not directly performance-related (though in this case, it probably is)?

    Reply ↓
    1. Busy Middle Manager*

      When I was a manager, I had to have that conversation. “It makes it real hard for me to advocate for you when you have video games and youtube up and everyone can see it.” The “trick” is that the person will always get offended or act offended, so you listen to their defense then repeat it a few different ways “I’m only looking out for you and the team,” “it makes it easier when I need to negotiate raises” etc.

      Reply ↓
    2. Fluffy Fish*

      It is fully within the realm of work related behavior that someone with performance issues be told that they should not be accessing have non-work related websites outside of their breaks, to include having them up on their computer.

      The later starts is a bit different but in general every place I have worked it is understood you have to earn flexibility to a degree. It’s also reasonable even if they are salaried that they need to be completing a full 40 hours minimum. So if he is coming in and putting in his hours, leave it alone. If he’s not, that’s a different story.

      Reply ↓
  63. RagingADHD*

    I know that office holiday parties are always a hot topic, so I just wanted to share how nice my group’s was last night after work. There are about a dozen of us in the group, and our manager had us over to his house. There was a buffet of substantial finger food, drinks, coffee, hot chocolate and sparkling water. We chatted for about an hour and then played White Elephant (aka Yankee Swap), which took about an hour. The target price was $25. I brought a jigsaw puzzle with cute artwork of a charcuterie board, and I got a vintage style mug with hot chocolate packets in it. The only really jokey gift was an old book that had been decommissioned from our law library, but when the receiver flipped through it, the giver had put 25 $1 bills in between the pages.

    Our group manager made a little speech recognizing those of us who were newer to the team having joined within the last 2 years, said goodbye to the person who is leaving for another job, and recognized a couple of people who had received industry awards.

    It was just nice. Nobody got drunk or was weird. Everybody left between 7:30-8:00. It generated zero dramatic or hilarious stories, which I think is the goal.

    It can be done!

    Reply ↓
  64. Fast Talker*

    Does anyone have any advice on slowing down when talking? I’ve gotten feedback that I sound too nervous even when I’m not nervous at all and I’m pretty sure it’s mostly due to how fast I talk. If I’m not actively thinking about slowing down, I don’t notice how fast I talk, but I think that’s because I’ll talk about as fast as I think to myself which is also pretty fast.

    Reply ↓
    1. Massive Dynamic*

      I also get critiqued as a fast talker and had the most bananas revelation about that earlier this week… I was running a meeting where I was training folks on something. Prime setup for me to go to fast talk mode because I was thinking of all of the info that I needed to share, like all at once in my head. But before it started, I reminded myself that I am BONE DEAD TIRED this week and why the heck am I trying to let my brain run at its usual speed. Damned if that didn’t actually let me slow down to a nice comfortable pace. I got feedback afterward that I was much better than usual!

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      A couple thoughts:
      -If you are using words as filler, practice being silent. Some of us really like filling the silence (including me), but some people need the silence.
      -Breathe. It’s hard to take deep breaths while talking quickly.
      -Imagine yourself as someone who talks calmly and slowly. Maybe a meditation guide, or an audiobook reader, or the narrator for a nature documentary.
      -Edit. In a big way. I’m a fast thinker, but if I dump my thoughts onto someone at the speed at which they come to me, most people immediately get overwhelmed (I’m ADHD, and usually have several trains of thought going at once, so that’s a bonus). I remind myself that I’m talking because I want to communicate something, but I’m not able to communicate if I overwhelm the person I’m talking to. Saying less communicates more.

      Reply ↓
  65. Networking and Universities*

    We moved to my partner’s home state last year, and I’ve been applying for jobs that are a good fit for me at the state university nearby. Staff jobs, so far all College of Ed. Out of 3 applications, I got 2 interviews and was a finalist once (spread out over the last year.)

    My in laws know I’m trying to get on there to move out of K-12 education, and turns out their best friends have a daughter who’s a vice president somewhere at the university (it’s huge and I think she might work in finance). They want me to send the friends my resume to pass along to their daughter. My partner says this is how people get jobs.

    Is this a good idea, or will it make me look bad since this person has no idea who I am and has never worked with me? And how would I even write such a cover letter? I plan to continue applying for posted positions judiciously; is there any harm in sending my resume to the in laws’ parents too? It feels so awkwarf.

    Reply ↓
    1. ferrina*

      You’re fine. Send the resume, and tell your in-laws to feel free to pass on your resume at any time. This is a normal way to network, and people do sometimes get jobs through it.
      My sister recently got a job because she gave her resume to someone she plays soccer with who gave it to a company that he used to work for….it obviously took more than a resume (several interviews and a practice exercise), but it all started with the resume.

      Reply ↓
  66. Seeking Second Childhood*

    US question.

    Does anyone know if there’s a way to find out what companies offer a specific health insurance plan before you apply?

    I don’t want to interrupt some ongoing medical treatments, and my plan isn’t in the available ACA offerings, but otherwise I’m so ready to retire I’d take a step back to get lower stress and same plan.

    Run-on sentences are chaotic, just like my life.

    Reply ↓
    1. Laggy Lu*

      Some companies are posting this info along with their other benefits on their careers site. When they are not, I have been able to ask during the first informational interview, or at the very least ask once I’ve moved on to the next step.

      Reply ↓
      1. Antilles*

        I agree, though I’d also add the caveat that you will probably need to dig into the details yourself, because odds are the hiring manager is only going to know “oh, we have a good plan with Anthem” and no actual details about whether it covers Medicine Y.

        Reply ↓
  67. Alice*

    I have a second interview for a job I really want! :)

    But a competitor to the place I want to work at just closed its division doing the same kind of work, so there are six other people on the market with SUPER-translatable skills….

    Well, all I can do is wait for things to shake out, I suppose.

    Reply ↓
  68. Ms Remote*

    I wrote in last week to ask for advice about references, because I live in a country where references are Not A Thing and I was asked to provide references by the international company where I’m interviewing.

    I received a lot of replies and I’m very grateful to everyone! Unfortunately due to my schedule I couldn’t reply, but I did read as many comments as I could and they were very helpful. Especially the bit about contacting people through Linkedin, and the people who suggested that clients could also be a reference. I am indeed in a client-facing role and I immediately reached out to someone I worked with on several projects.

    At the same time I also contacted the hiring manager, explained the situation and passed along the one reference I had. They were super understanding and, although they stressed that they would still need to complete the reference check, they told me they would give me more time as I needed.

    Long story short, I got my three references, the hiring manager did whatever they needed to do, and they let me know I will be receiving a formal offer next week. In the end I was making this out to be a bigger problem than it was, but I was really worried at the thought of losing out on this offer and I was not thinking straight and ignoring some simple things I could do. My current workplace already went through one round of layoffs and I’m sure a second round is coming in the new year, so I need this new job. I’m very thankful for all the suggestions and tips!

    Reply ↓
    1. Hlao-roo*

      Congratulations on the offer! I’m glad you were able to get the three references you needed.

      As a side note, I totally understand how something relatively small can seem like a Very Big Problem when you’re right in the middle of it, especially when you don’t even know where to start on a solution. Glad the open thread was able to point you in the right direction!

      Reply ↓
  69. Pay no attention...*

    TLDR version: Hiring a freelancer tips or trends (in my case graphic designers). I’ve never had this much trouble and I’m located in a region that should have lots of experienced and available people, Los Angeles, but we are also willing to use someone outside of California. 100% remote, 10 hrs per week guaranteed, but with the opportunity to have more hours because our in-house team is swamped. We want experience, but by that we mean 5ish years as a professional graphic designer with a portfolio, and I think we’re paying a market rate — they tell us what they charge.

    ——-
    Longer: I’m on the panel for my department’s second round of trying to hire a freelance graphic designer. The first one we hired — who seemed so experienced, professional, friendly and had a great portfolio — ghosted before they ever completed the first project. It should have taken an experienced graphic designer 4-6 hrs max IMO, but they pushed the first deadline off because they were sick (okay no problem), then stopped responding altogether and we finally gave up and started over. If something better came along, just tell us you are no longer available!

    The others we interviewed in that first round wouldn’t have fit for various reasons — for example:
    • one couldn’t be available at all, even by chat, video or email, during 8 am-5 pm Pacific Time
    • one who knocked the interview out of the park, but despite an impressive resume of clients their skill level and attention to detail were so subpar in their portfolio, I’m thinking the resume had to be a fabrication.
    • one seemed actually disinterested in the position at all when we interviewed her… so why did she interview??
    These were the finalists!

    Is there a new trick or trend to hiring a freelancer that we aren’t catching onto?

    Reply ↓
  70. The Perpetual Temp . . . Is No Longer a Temp!*

    Just a celebration post!

    I’m not new to the workforce, but between switching career fields in my mid-20s and moving due to my spouse’s job, I’ve mostly worked temporary contracts. I’m currently in what I’d call my dream job. A few months ago, my department opened up several full-time positions identical to the one I’d been occupying as a temp. I went through a competitive application and interview process and was ultimately selected. I start the permanent version of my role next week.

    I’ve never had this kind of stability in my career, and knowing I don’t have to worry about whether I’ll be employed six months down the road is life-changing. I love what I do and the organization I work for, and I hope to stay here until I retire.

    Reply ↓
  71. Roll*

    Do I ask my manager/someone on the management team if they’re planning to let me go? Or what the reasoning behind me being looked over for a promotion?
    I’ve been in my role for two years. My manager isn’t very good at giving feedback (any, actually), but if you asked me last month I would have said I was doing pretty good. My weak points are having trouble pivoting tasks without getting flustered (give me a bit and I’m fine), and not really liking working with my manager and sometimes not hiding that very well. Otherwise I perform my job to the best of my abilities and keep the two of us organized. However, over the last few weeks my manager keeps on making comments about how I should learn a certain process so I can put it on my resume, or how things are done differently in other places than how we do them here. I think he might be trying to prompt me to show more of an interest/initiative in expanding my knowledge base, but it’s making me nervous.
    Then last week HR sent an email out congratulating people on their new promotions. I really thought I would qualify for one this year between a really good yearly review and seniority, but no. I still at the entry level position after 4.5 years, and now the lowest ranked person in the department.
    I’m happy for my coworker who got promoted, I am, but I’ve come so far in the last few years and this just feels like a slap in the face. I’ve been looking for a new job on and off for a while now, but not many places are hiring in my field or at the level/role I am.

    Reply ↓
    1. Laggy Lu*

      What kind of promotion did your coworker get? Is it just a pay/title bump, or are they taking on higher level work? I ask because the two items you say (can’t easily pivot tasks, and can’t hide your disdain for your boss) are pretty big deals in terms of being able to progress your career, other than just regular pay increases.
      You shouldn’t ask your boss if he plans on firing you, but you should ask him what it would take for him to consider you for a promotion.

      Reply ↓
    2. ferrina*

      Well, all you know is that you didn’t get promoted. You don’t know if that’s because your boss is unhappy with your performance, or if your boss is happy but just failed to advocate for you.

      Simple way to find out- sit your boss down and say “Hey, I’m interested in hopefully getting a – what do I need to do to be in the best position I can when promotions are evaluated next year?” When you say this, say it in an upbeat way. Make sure that for this conversation you are not disappointed, but excited for the future possibilities (though I fully back your disappointment and frustrating- this sounds so disheartening!). The trick here is that you are not asking for feedback, you are asking for advice. Most people looooove giving advice when asked, even people who suck at giving feedback. Especially if you do it in a low pressure way, like if you are just scoping out possibilities that you are excited about (that’s why it’s important not to sound disappointed).

      Whatever your boss says, nod and be happy to hear it. Your boss might say stuff that you don’t like or don’t agree with. Now is not the time to argue- now is the time to listen and try to figure out what’s going on in your boss’s head. If they are listing things that you are already working on, you know you need to get better at those things. If they are listing things that you think you are good at, re-evaluate if you are actually doing what you need to be in those areas (maybe you are, but maybe your boss’s expectations are different than yours). If they hem and haw and don’t really answer, that usually means that either 1) they have no interest in ever putting you up for promotion and they aren’t going to tell you that, or 2) they tried to put you up for promotion, but it didn’t work out this year for reasons they can’t tell you (usually this boils down to budget or politics). If they give you a list that is wildly outside your scope of work (this has happened to me), it means they are giving you a moving target and they have no interest in promoting you, but they want you to think that it’s your fault that they won’t promote you.

      I’d also advise looking around at other opportunities (always a good idea when you are wondering if you’ll be let go), but you’re already doing that. I don’t think you need to amp up the job search just based on not getting promoted.

      Reply ↓
  72. Not an expert*

    I worked in an office where many of our clients used What’s App. These were their personal accounts, so I’m not sure if things might be different if your caller has a business account. In my experience, the phone number associated with their What’s App account was their personal mobile number, with therefore could be called anyway you can make a call. So a land line, a cell phone, or an external call though Teams. (with potential long distance fees)

    Reply ↓
  73. training recommendations?*

    Does anyone have any recommendations for online training in Power BI? It does not have to be free (I have an education stipend to use up) and some sort of certification would be a plus. My employer likes when we can show that we’ve been leveling up, so proof of completion is valuable even if it isn’t useful anywhere else. Thank you!

    Reply ↓
    1. Strive to Excel*

      LinkedIn Learning!

      It’s paid but I don’t believe it’s dreadfully expensive, there’s a lot of good follow-along courses at every skill level, and a lot of the training qualifies for various professional qualifications.

      Reply ↓
  74. Annie Edison*

    My second question this week: tell me about your best outlook email organization tips. My new job uses outlook, and I’m more used to Gmail. I’m finding the inbox organization, filing, and search features in outlook a bit cumbersome by comparison. What’s worked for you?

    Reply ↓
  75. Fed Up*

    I’ve been stuck trying to get a seemingly impossible project done for months and months now and I’m getting so anxious and burnt out. Anyone who can help me at this point has basically given up too. I just keep trying but it feels like no one cares anymore and I’m just stuck and sad. Definitely going to spend the holidays job hunting– I can’t take this for much longer!! If anyone else is in a similar situation, sending hope and positive energy your way. I’ve never been the type to let work stress consume me before, but… job 1, soul 0.

    Reply ↓

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