open thread – December 27, 2024

by Alison Green on December 27, 2024

It’s the Friday open thread!

The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on any work-related questions that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to take your questions to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 466 comments }

{ 466 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    All those who were working/will be working on the holidays – how are you doing?

    (I worked xmas day and will probably be covering new years day too this year and truthfully didn’t mind it! The firm are very good at paying us extra and have put on lots of food with a wide range of dietary restrictions – we had halal, kosher, hindu…)

    Reply ↓
    1. Milltown*

      I’m finding it not too bad. There’s no traffic, I’m getting much fewer emails, work is buying us lunch & we get float holidays to make it up to us!

      Reply ↓
    2. CherryBlossom*

      My office is very dry, so other than most people being out, it’s business as normal for me. I have a big project and hard deadlines and everything. There has been some free food floating around, so that’s been a plus!

      Reply ↓
    3. Jan Levinson Gould*

      I usually love working the holidays. It’s my time to catch up on administrative housekeeping tasks. This year I had PTO I would lose if I didn’t use, so I’m taking the time off and TBH I miss the quiet period working.

      Reply ↓
    4. Annie Edison*

      I got Xmas day and New Years day off, but working other than that. It’s pretty quiet and I don’t have much to do, so I’m using the time for skills development and some organizational stuff I’ve been putting off. The best part is that I’m still getting paid! (I’m coming off years of self-employment where quiet periods = less money, which made it hard to ever truly relax and enjoy the slower times)

      Reply ↓
    5. CTT*

      Corporate lawyer working this week per usual, but now with the added wrinkle of the Corporate Transparency Act changing every other day!

      Reply ↓
    6. anotherfan*

      I generally volunteer to work Christmas and it was a relatively quiet night, thankfully. And oddly enough, working a holiday shift means I work fewer hours. Before the pandemic, when we had a full newsroom, I remember either getting a turkey lunch/dinner or getting a stipend to buy food. These days, holidays are wfh, so that’s a change.

      Reply ↓
      1. Clisby*

        I’m retired now, but I used to like working on holidays, for the same reasons. When I worked for newspapers, my preference was to get Christmas Eve off, because my Christmas Day work didn’t start until 4 p.m. Much better for spending time with my family.

        Reply ↓
    7. Wingo Staww*

      I find it so irritating. Half the company is out, the other half of us are pretending to work (fully remotely, so could be worse) – we can’t get anything done because our clients are off. I wish we could have the whole week off like normal countries do.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        I’m sort of pretending to work myself today but took the rest of the week because who am I kidding? I’d love for an official shutdown.

        Reply ↓
        1. CherryBlossom*

          Most of Europe and South America, honestly. Some have the entire month of December off! For a lot of offices, there’s no point in being open, but in USA, here we are. Let’s be real; how many of us are just pretending to work while browsing the web or watching youtube?

          Reply ↓
          1. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

            We’re a 24/7/365 company here in the UK and the entire country pretty much shuts down at xmas. Well, except for us. But the call queue is a lot less busy so mostly it’s catching up on paperwork and admin and patching servers before the office staff return.

            May or may not have been scrolling through the AAM archives too..

            Reply ↓
            1. LarryforPM*

              And what do British people like to do in that week off? A lot of them go to the panto, so those of us who work in theatre get about 28 hours off between Christmas Eve and Boxing Day. Panto pays better than many theatre gigs, don’t get me wrong, but the glitter, 750 screaming kids at 10am and endless renditions of ‘Twelve Days of Christmas’ sometimes get a bit much

              Reply ↓
        2. allathian*

          Not the whole week, but the vast majority of office workers get December 24-26 off in Finland. I took Monday and Friday off, so I get 9 consecutive days off. We also get January 1 and 6 off, so 2 more 4-day weeks to come.

          Reply ↓
        3. CatMintCat*

          I’m in Australia and worked in offices for over twenty years. Never in that time did I work between Christmas Eve and the 2nd January. And, if we were brought back that early, we whinged. I’m a teacher now, and off for the summer break until the end of January, but most places of business, other than retail, are closed for at least that week between Christmas and New Year. Almost all retail closes Christmas Day.

          Reply ↓
      4. RussianInTexas*

        Same. I am out of PTO, all my customers are off (I mostly work with school districts), half of my colleagues are of.
        I work remotely, and there is literally nothing to do, so I am doing nothing. House stuff, cooking, etc.

        Reply ↓
    8. Todd*

      It’s great, can actually get work done, since most of the managers disappear so they aren’t wasting time calling meetings.

      Reply ↓
    9. Jay (no, the other one)*

      I’m a mostly-retired doctor who takes call only on Christmas these days, since I’m Jewish and don’t celebrate. I can stand 36 hours of call out of a whole year, and this year wasn’t too bad! Since Hanukkah started on the 25th I brought soufganiyot (Israeli jelly doughnuts) to work on Wednesday and everyone loved them. It’s good to feel like a part of the team.

      Reply ↓
    10. Aggretsuko*

      I’m really doing diddly over here. I can’t make any progress at my work for 2 weeks because people are out or busy, so I’m just hanging around chatting and doing craft projects and writing letters and putting together a flowerpot Lego….

      Reply ↓
    11. SophieChotek*

      Just got 12/25 and 1/1/25 off.

      I work remotely but in a Customer Service (CS) department so while yesterday was slow, tbh today has been pretty busy. (Just popped over here on my 15 minute break.) So overall, I am finding it business as usual; lots of folks have taken PTO so those who are here have to cover more, but it’s not so slow I can catch up on admin tasks. (Also I’m covering a co-worker who did take PTO).

      As we customer facing, I find holidays can be hit or miss – really slow, or everyone else is off and has time to finally deal with that issue ….

      Overall no extra perks or anythig, tho’ we got off a little early 12/24

      Reply ↓
    12. Anax*

      Pretty happy! I get Christmas Day and New Year’s Day, but that’s all.

      I’m remote and not a big Christmas person, so it doesn’t bother me – just a quiet week of work with minimal meetings.

      My partner’s admonished me to actually take some time off next year, though, to celebrate with the family. My previous job gave vacation preference based on seniority, so I could never get time off around the holidays – it was a busy time of year, and the team had very little turnover. Now that I have a job which doesn’t require coverage, I actually *could* take time off – but I hadn’t even thought about it. Oops!

      Reply ↓
    13. Zellie*

      I’m sort of enjoying it. I unexpectedly got Christmas Eve off and enjoyed the two days in a row off, but have worked the rest of the week. Like others, I’m enjoying the light traffic and slow pace at work. There are about half of us in and we’ve kept it festive, mostly with munchies.

      I don’t really do much for Christmas anymore and decided to mix it up this year and work and am finding I don’t mind it at all.

      Reply ↓
    14. Lissa Landon*

      I love these weeks at work – a lot of other staff are gone, some of our vendors close, and I get more work done in 2 weeks than in the previous 2 months!

      Reply ↓
    16. Elizabeth West*

      I was working this week, but I took today off because I had nothing to do. All my deliverables start next week and everyone was offline. I hated to burn one of my two current PTO days, but it was better than trying to look busy. The hellproject I was assigned to got put on hold; otherwise I would have had a bunch of stuff to do.

      Reply ↓
    17. Latkes & Light*

      For the first time this year, my company made ALL holidays floating, so I could work on Christmas and use those vacation hours on Yom Kippur. I’ve wanted to work Christmas and save those hours for High Holidays for decades, but I never thought to see this kind of progress in my lifetime. It was a delight. Thank heavens for remote work so you don’t have to open a whole office to get stuff done.

      Reply ↓
    18. Beth**

      We were closed 24-26 and will be closed again 31-1 but otherwise I am working through and it has been fine. Things are slow, so I can start a bit later, finish a bit earlier and take a long lunch.

      I’ve been finishing up admin stuff like filing emails, writing up performance reviews for my team etc. Today I set myself 3 small tasks and 2 big ones and I managed to finish them all in a 6 hour workout day. Yay me.

      Most people aren’t back until the 6th. I have enough to keep me going through Monday, but next Thursday and Friday will probably be boring. Unless something goes wrong next week. I am the only manager around on my team, so if there is am emergency, even with something that’s not usually my responsibility, I will suddenly be busy. It’s unlikely but not impossible.

      Reply ↓
    19. Harlowe*

      I had big plans to get SO MUCH done because everyone else was off, and apparently the Pune IT group thought the same. Every time I started getting somewhere, they’d force an update/shutdown. I almost put my laptop through a wall.

      Reply ↓
    20. what a mess*

      Honestly has me rethinking things. Our new management (read: the head of the other team that does what we do, who we’ve been helping dig out of their hole for the last several months…) decided we no longer get the “benefit” of leaving early with pay when the work is all done the day before a holiday. (We work with documents that can’t be handled remotely, so none of us are even hybrid.)

      Add to that no holiday bonus (just some execs laughing as they give away a tiny handful of gift cards over Zoom) and no holiday meal or anything of the sort, and it really makes you feel valued.

      Reply ↓
    21. Wordybird*

      All good here! I’m remote so just chugging along at home like usual. I don’t believe I received a single email today, and I haven’t received any Slack messages or emails from anyone I work with since Tuesday morning. I think it’s silly that they keep the office open since obviously nothing is being accomplished but I understand that they’re doing that since it doesn’t cost them anything to keep it open + makes everyone use up their PTO.

      Reply ↓
  2. Mary (in PA)*

    So I know we all enjoy the story of the best holiday office party date, but I got inspired by the recent story about Ryan from ShopKo, and would like to humbly submit this to the Ask a Manager holiday party fanfic canon. I would call it an adaptation, rather than a strict re-telling.

    https://archiveofourown.org/works/61622047

    Thank you to the original poster for bringing this lovely tale to our attention. (https://www.askamanager.org/2024/12/the-boudoir-photos-the-date-from-shopko-and-other-stories-of-holidays-at-work.html – #7 at the link)

    Reply ↓
      1. 3 Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

        Oh, you HAVE to go read the one where AAM is crossed with Hench on how to be a good villain support worker!

        Reply ↓
    4. Persephone Mulberry*

      I don’t generally drop into the Friday open threads, but I’m so glad I did today! That was charming!

      Reply ↓
  3. Alex*

    I currently work a part time job in addition to my full time job. I’ve been doing this for years, and at this point I’m starting to get burned out. I want to reduce my schedule, and I know that I can ask to reduce it and it will likely be granted–I already work more than most of the other part timers and basically I want it reduced to what most people have.

    So why do I feel so guilty? I’m dreading asking. I feel like I’m letting them down. I know it will be tricky to fill more shifts (but not impossible). There’s also a little part of me that feels like I should make as much money as I possibly can and that I shouldn’t indulge my want for more free time. I’ve been putting it off and putting it off and I promised myself in the new year I would make the change. Any great scripts for asking for a reduced schedule? Why does this feel so fraught?

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      Give them the plenty of notice and explain that you just can’t keep up with the current schedule for reasons( burnout, increased workload at day job, need for more Netflix time).

      Reply ↓
    2. Bike Walk Barb*

      Do you think it feels fraught because you feel financial anxiety around reducing your income? How are you using the extra money–to save for special things, unexpected expenses, retirement, or do you rely on it for your current lifestyle? If it’s been to create a cushion in savings, do you have a specific goal for how big the cushion needs to be? Maybe thinking through this and having a plan for the money (which you may already have achieved) will help lessen some of the “fraughtness” of the decision.

      And if it’s that, knowing you could always ask to increase your hours again or pick up occasional extra hours as needed may take care of some of that anxiety. If you’ve been doing more than others who work the same kinds of jobs that option is likely there.

      Another way of framing asking for the reduced hours: When you’re working those extra shifts others can’t. Maybe someone else would appreciate the chance to increase their income.

      As for the script, it’s on the business to have enough staffing. You don’t need to feel guilty for wanting your life back after years of doing this. I don’t think I’d give much in the way of a reason. For one thing, if you change your mind you don’t want to have to unwind an explanation. Giving them plenty of advance notice to fill in with others is more than enough. “I need to reduce my hours to XX per week/month. I want to give you time to find others to fill those spots. Would a month be enough time to work out the change in schedule?”

      And yes, “need to reduce” is the right thing to say. You need to do this for yourself. What would you tell a good friend who said they’d been working two jobs for years and were burned out? You’d tell them to cut themselves some slack. Be your own good friend here.

      Reply ↓
    3. Name (Required)*

      “I’d like to reduce my schedule to X hours a week starting in February.” That’s it, you don’t owe them an explanation. If they ask, you can say that you will have other commitments. No reason to feel guilty. It’s business and they will find people to pick up those hours.

      Reply ↓
    4. FricketyFrack*

      Here’s the thing – free time isn’t really a “want,” it’s a need. It’s how we recharge our batteries and avoid the burnout you’re starting to experience. I pushed myself to the point where I would drive to work and fantasize about getting in a car accident because it would mean I’d have a good reason not to go in that day, and I can tell you that that’s not a place you want to end up. If it helps, think of reducing your hours as healthcare, because that’s pretty much what it is.

      I think you can probably just say you’d like to cut back without getting too into the weeds. If your employer pushes back, it’s ok to say that you don’t want to get to the point where you can’t work at all – it’s a lot easier for them to cover an extra shift or two vs covering all of them.

      Reply ↓
    5. Hiring Manager (they/them)*

      I would start by asking yourself if you feel guilty because of internal or external worries, because the advice is a little different depending on the answer.

      Internal worries – feeling like you’ll regret the change later on; feeling like there’s some moral failure with burning out; realizing that the money/time tradeoff is worth it but you’ll miss the money. This is just normal worries – if you have a therapist, talk to them about this; if you have a trusted friend, ask them to humor you as you talk it out; journal about it; reach out to people you know who have done similar things in the past for some commiseration…general self-care tips to just become more internally comfortable with an anxiety-inducing change.

      External worries – concern that you’ll be pressured to change your mind; worry that your bosses and/or coworkers will treat you poorly for this decision; etc. This is a little harder, because yes, you can (and SHOULD) ask for less hours, but you should practice setting boundaries ahead of time, be ready to tell yourself “they are trying to make me feel guilty even though this is not my fault and they could hire additional help”, have distractions in your back pocket (which will also help with burnout!). And if it doesn’t end (most bosses will probably be a little surprised at the request if you haven’t been talking about wanting to cut hours), even be willing to walk away if finances allow.

      The middle ground is if you won’t have external guilting BUT things will be run poorly while they take their sweet time and see if you’ll just start doing more work to fill in these gaps. Don’t fall for it. You can say “they can hire an additional person or require someone else to pick up the slack” to yourself, because unless you somehow have a part-time job where you’re holding lives in your very hands, a few slow months with bad service and gaps in the job will not ever ruin a business or organization – and sometimes it’s a good wake-up call!

      Reply ↓
    6. Always Tired*

      You are worth more than the value of your labor. A lot of people have had money insecurities, and want to never have that happen again, but I also know a lot of people who just… identify themselves and their value based on output of labor and money earned from it. But your time is also valuable, and is something you’ve earned by living. Let yourself have that. Find value in your free time by finding value in just enjoying life, and you won’t feel bad working less.

      Reply ↓
    7. JSPA*

      Change is fraught, and if you’re easy to guilt-trip, you likely don’t even notice when the messages from outside start being mirrored inside your head. Plus it’s easy to forget that we’re valuable even when we don’t (essentially) destroy ourselves in the process.

      If you can’t rip off the bandaid without dipping a toe in the “new normal,” tell them you need to move to a reduced schedule for at least 4 months, to sort out [non-scary but not-up-for-debate health issue of your choice, e.g. sleep problems or tight muscles]. Let them know, month 2, that it seems to be slowly working, and they should plan on this schedule for you for “the rest of this calendar year.” By then, you and they will be used to that new normal (or they’ll know to hire an additional part-timer)…or they’ll have clearly been jerks about your well-being, which will be your call to use the “extra” time to job-search.

      To be clear, you don’t owe them any of this. And it would be great if you could somehow simply inform your superego that “winning with the most toys” is cold comfort if your health is irreversibly damaged. But emotions and psychology don’t run on common sense.

      So sometimes you white-knuckle an uncomfortable moment. (Probably helps if you enjoy roller coasters or scary movies, and pass easily from stress to intense moments to catharsis to relaxation.)

      Other times, you visualize how farmers dig channels to irrigate a field, and use that as your model for creating a “emotions channel” that allows your emotions to line up with your desired outcome.

      Both valid paths.

      Reply ↓
    8. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Yes, why do you feel guilty when you already work more than everyone else? Do your coworkers feel guilty for working less than you? Does your manager say things like “oh, how would we ever survive without you?” I get that you probably see them more than anyone else in your life, but who are you letting down if you continue and then burn out?

      If you burn out, you’ll probably have to quit both jobs. Is that actually what you want? Are you sabotaging yourself to get to an end point you don’t want to admit to?

      You want to reduce your schedule. You know it will be granted. Those are just facts. Instead of going ahead, you’re throwing up imaginary roadblocks to prevent yourself from acting. You’re not listing more facts about financial obligations or what have you.

      Should is a really poisonous word and I notice you chose the OTT word “indulge” to label yourself. I’d encourage you to think about why these words come up when you think of doing something you want to do. I find it helpful to literally ask and answer these questions rather than treating them as though they are rhetorical to find out what is going on in your subconscious.

      Reply ↓
    9. Still*

      I understand that it feels fraught and have a few guesses as to why but the main thing is: it’s okay that it feels fraught. You can let them know that you’re going down in hours even though it feels fraught. And I bet it’s going to be a huge weight off your shoulders as soon as you’ve asked.

      In a little while, when your new schedule kicks in, you’ll feel better and more rested, you’ll see that they can make it work without you, and you probably won’t even care about it that much. You might even feel a bit silly for being scared to ask in the first place.

      You don’t have to wait for it to feel better before you ask. Ask, and it will lead to you feeling better later. It’s okay to feel nervous as long as you don’t let it stop you.

      All this is to say… some feelings you need to understand and work through, and that can be helpful, and in the long run it might be good to question why you feel so beholden to your part-time job. But this is also one of those situations where you just need to Do The Thing that you’ve already decided is good for you.

      You know what to do. Keep that promise to yourself and enjoy the free time you need and deserve.

      Reply ↓
    10. Hermione Danger*

      Those feelings that are keeping you from making a perfectly reasonable request? The guilt about letting them down, the worries about making as much money as possible, the placing your own desire for free time–time for YOU–at the bottom of your priority pile? Those are exactly the reason you are heading for burnout. As someone who has been working to recover from burnout for the better part of a year, you do not want to go through this. Take care of yourself and ask for the reduced schedule.

      You are allowed to put your own needs and desires ahead of your employers. You DESERVE to put your own needs first. You do not need to prove your worth or value by working yourself to death. You are enough. You get to have a life.

      Reply ↓
    11. Alex*

      Thank for all of the thoughtful responses, I really appreciate them! I think my anxiety is a little bit of everything–feeling guilty about “leaving money on the table”, feeling guilty that it will make things harder for my boss, etc. etc. But I know I need to do it!

      It isn’t really about my immediate finances–I can manage even if I quit this job entirely. I’ve been putting the money away in hopes of buying a home one day. For Reasons, I probably don’t want to buy a home for a few more years, so it’s really not an emergency and I have a pretty healthy down payment in the bank already, but there’s always this little voice in my head that says I’ll regret not having more when the time comes.

      Reply ↓
  4. Tradd*

    Removed since posts on the Friday threads are limited to work questions. (You may simply need to reframe this one if there’s a work component.) – Alison

    Reply ↓
  5. Amber Rose*

    I’m still quite sick. This is day 11. I got sick immediately after taking this job and it’s hard not to feel resentful every day I’m here. It’s not the job that was advertised, it’s mostly doing things I don’t have a ton of experience with and dislike doing, and my entire Christmas was ruined by the plague. My boss is such a nice guy so I feel bad about being desperate to leave already but nothing good has happened to me since starting here and I hate the work.

    Anyway, they’re keeping my predecessor on as a consultant of sorts so I can ask her questions if I need to, and I keep getting urged to contact her, but I haven’t felt any need to. I haven’t felt like I need to ask anyone for anything really. My boss said he was worried about that, but what am I supposed to be asking? All the information I could need is in the files and I take detailed notes.

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      I understand your frustration but you really need to separate the illness from the job itself. The job didn’t make you sick. I think the two things are also making each other worse. If you weren’t sick you might be less resentful of the job and better able to get a handle on it while you figure out your next move. If you didn’t have to work, you could rest up and get better.

      Reply ↓
    2. Name (Required)*

      The illness may be clouding your judgment on the job itself. I’d try to stick it out until you’re feeling better before making any decisions about the job. I hope you feel better soon! Drink lots of fluids, try to rest as much as you can, etc.

      Reply ↓
    3. Bike Walk Barb*

      A suggestion: Contact your predecessor, telling her that everything is going well, she left great files and you take detailed notes so you’re comfortable with what you’ve been asked to do so far. You’re wondering if there’s more to it or if there are things that haven’t come up yet that will change the work or the workload, either on a regular cycle or as surprise overloads. That way you can say to your boss, “I had a great chat with Rose and I’m feeling good about having the information I need to do the work. She left great files.”

      I wouldn’t tell her straight up “it isn’t what was advertised” but this at least may give you additional insight into what to expect when you’ve been there a while. You may feel comfortable enough with her to say it isn’t what you expected based on the ad and she may give you her take on why that is.

      Any chance they needed you to do other things that weren’t in the ad as a temporary thing? How far away from the ad description is the work? Did you get a written job description and is what you’re doing within that? (I realized I’m assuming there’s a written one and if there isn’t you should ask for one.)

      I wouldn’t tackle a big talk with your boss while you’re sick, but at some point asking to talk with him about the duties and saying it isn’t what you expected based on the ad isn’t out of line. “I was interested in duties X, Y, and Z and I’m good at those (or, I’m looking forward to learning more while I do those). I’m hoping that work is really part of the position and it hasn’t come up yet. Is that a seasonal thing or…?” This is where talking with Rose in advance will help you understand the job and point to what you may want to ask about. If she tells you it only happens in June-July, now you know that. You can shift your question to address the gaps in what she tells you. (I hope this makes sense.)

      Reply ↓
      1. Amber Rose*

        Basically, I was hired for a program management position. The task that I’m spending 80% of my time on was in the job description, but it was the last item of a long list of items that are pretty standard for the role. I feel annoyed because technically this isn’t something this role should be taking lead on. Here it’s 100% on me and it’s a lot due to how poorly run things are. They wanted me to help improve things, but I don’t get the impression they’re actually willing to change.

        The 2 days I had in person with my predecessor were basically just her telling me I wouldn’t have time to do anything except this one task, listing all the things she wanted to do but couldn’t, and to not trust my boss when he promises change. She was pretty negative tbh, which is one reason I don’t really want to talk to her. I also really fundamentally disagree with how she was running things and I feel like she created a lot of ill-will for the role. That I can change, and have done, but it’s exhausting and not what I want for myself.

        Reply ↓
        1. bmorepm*

          You’ve been in the job for two weeks and feel that you’ve already made an impact in changing people’s perspective/goodwill towards the role? I can understand not wanting to continue connecting with the predecessor if you don’t have questions or because of her attitude, but it also seems like a lot of sweeping statements and assumptions to make after such a brief time.

          Reply ↓
          1. Amber Rose*

            No, sorry that was worded poorly. I meant I have previously been in a role where I took over from someone people didn’t like so I’ve got some experience with changing perceptions. It takes a couple years in my experience, and although I’ve started laying a little groundwork here, I’ve got a very very long way to go. It’s hard, exhausting work with a lot of pitfalls which is why I don’t really want to do it honestly.

            Reply ↓
        2. PP*

          If you haven’t done so, maybe map out what you are actually spending time on (and accomplishing) versus the other items that are critical to the role and the program(s).
          Brainstorm on possibilities for getting that one task done another way (partially by someone else)? And map out the effects of you not being able to do those other items.
          Back it up with data. Then make a bullet point type report for your manager, going in order from most important/impactful issues as you understand them to the least.

          Them when you are feeling better, and feeling like you can take a neutral stance in presenting your report, think about scheduling a check in with your manager. Use your bullet point type report for guidance. And be sure to have spoken with the former job holder, before that meeting.

          Also, do you have any job hunting leads that you can revive? or professional networking that you can do? Some activity in that area might help with handling stress.

          Reply ↓
    4. JSPA*

      You can’t know what isn’t in the files. Your predecessor may (for example) want to tell you certain things are BS that nobody checks, or that Jan in HR and Jen in accounting left the year prior, and they’re cheaping out on hiring someone, so they shifted tasks to your job, but with some pressure, they could choose to shift them back.

      Or you may realize they were super anal and controlling, and that 40% of what irks you isn’t actually required, it’s just their own way of doing things.

      Or the job is the job, and bait/switch is the default procedure, and you need to hear that to know that your boss may be BEING nice… but isn’t actually nice, because the bait/switch is 100% intentional.

      Or you may find it useful to let the prior person know that the job was mis-advertised, and doesn’t play to your strengths and interests, both as practice for having this as a “growing the role or internal transfer” (as opposed to “ultimatum”) discussion with your boss.

      Reply ↓
    5. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      It’s okay to feel resentful. You’re sick and you’re stuck in a new job that sucks at the same time!

      Your boss being a Nice GuyTM is probably why you need to keep looking. Your predecessor already said you can’t rely on him to keep his promises. He probably wants to seem “nice”, so makes promises to change, but then has no intention of actually changing. I do think you should take Barb’s advice and tell him the files she left were great and that she covered all your questions the first 2 days.

      I’m sorry you’re still sick.

      Reply ↓
      1. M2*

        It’s only been 2 weeks. Is this what happens during a certain time of year? Were these tasks not completed because the predecessor had to complete other items before they left?

        I get it but also as a manager when I hire someone and they get annoyed right when they start about what they are working on it can be frustrating. It only happened once and for someone who was not a good fit. It was a part of the year where we mainly focus on X and they only wanted to do B. It was made clear during the interview as well.

        Then when stuff started to settle after a few months and we needed to focus on other items they had issues with those too. Travel was part of the role and they didn’t want to travel. Then they invited their family in a trip (without asking) and the only reason I found out was because they called the assistant to complain about the hotel they booked. The assistant should not have booked their hotel, that was part of their job. It was technically my assistant but she did other roles and it was sure as heck not booking travel for someone who should have booked their own travel through our travel program.

        Needless to say it wasn’t a good fit. I find waiting a few months unless things are super toxic. I find people who come in and within the first few months think they know everything and want to change everything (unless specifically asked and known the department or function or software needs changing) should really listen and learn. It isn’t a good way to come in if you don’t. I have seen other people come in and think they know all and they either don’t last or if they do done the road they realize that they should have waited to make changes in order to understand what was needed. And yes sometimes things need changing but if you listen and learn and are collaborative people want to work with you. Coming in sick during and before the holidays won’t make people want to work with you.

        Talk to your boss and talk to colleagues. Learn. Listen and don’t complain in your first two weeks while you’re sick if you’re doing one main task. It’s the holidays and your first two weeks! Good luck to you!

        Reply ↓
  6. Meh*

    I’m irritated.

    I’m the GM of a small family-owned company. I manage one location, and the owner manages the other. I report directly to him. A lot of staff have taken off over Christmas, so I’ve worked & covered for them. I texted the owner that I wanted to take two days at the end of next week when everyone is back, and my son is still on break. Well, apparently I caught him at a bad time, b/c this was his reply:

    “Late notice is not good. Thank ahead next time. Every person working for me has asked for extra time. That’s why we have a policy book. Just caught me at the wrong time. You are the third person today, wanting time off.”

    Eh. But, I’m your GM. I was more letting him know as opposed to asking. It’s our slowest week of the year. I’m sure Monday he’ll tell me to take the days, but in the meantime, I’m irritated.

    Reply ↓
    2. Artemesia*

      you have more patience than I would have. I’d say something that would probably disrupt the relationship going forward like ‘I have worked to cover everyone else’s holiday leave — I am not asking, I manage this unit, I am telling you I will be off then.’

      Reply ↓
      2. Cacofonix*

        For me, this would sound defensive. But I agree, OP might have more restraint than I would. I’d say something like, “Oops, sounds like you’re having a day and need a mulligan. As you know, I get it. Let’s chat Monday.” Then no further emails on the topic except to plan a chat or accept apologies with grace. And plan your days off either way.

        Reply ↓
    3. Zona the Great*

      Sounds like a lack of emotional intelligence. I hate when bosses complain about bossing to me. The third person you say?! My god. Call the trauma response team!

      Reply ↓
    4. Bike Walk Barb*

      Does the policy book say something about how far in advance people are supposed to request time off?

      I do think being GM is a let you know, not ask you position. It’s also a lead by example position. So was he telling you without saying it that you didn’t follow policy here?

      Reply ↓
      1. Meh*

        Two weeks. And I totally know that, but I was also waiting to see what everyone else was doing, how last minute projects would wrap up, etc.

        He probably will call me Monday and tell me to take them.

        Reply ↓
        1. My Brain is Exploding*

          Well, I get why he wanted to know sooner, and since you said he normally isn’t like that, he was probably frustrated with the number of requests he was getting. And in a quieter moment, you can remind him that you thought it best to wait to ask as you were already doing coverage for those who were out.

          Reply ↓
    5. JSPA*

      “Sorry, I should have been clearer. If I had given you early notice for my preferred dates and taken them, we’d have had extremely unhappy employees or inadequate coverage on [date, date, date, date, date, date and/or date]. Having patiently given precedence to everyone else’s needs, and having identified slow dates with few coverage issues, I will need to take [date and date] off for my own, much-delayed, break.”

      Reply ↓
    6. Saturday*

      I think like he said, this caught him at a bad time, and now everyone is irritated, but hopefully it will all blow over soon. Maybe you can have a “When people are back and things calm down, I’ll take a few days off” conversation earlier next year so that he knows it’s coming, even if he doesn’t know the particular days?

      Reply ↓
      1. fhqwhgads*

        He’s the boss. He should have the emotional maturity to not respond in a snit because the message happened to land at a bad time.

        Reply ↓
    7. June First*

      If this was all one text, he seems to have caught himself halfway through. Could have deleted the first three lines and it would have landed differently.
      “Caught me at a bad time. You’re the third person to ask today. Let’s talk Monday.”

      You’re right to be irritated.

      Reply ↓
    8. Your Former Password Resetter*

      Since he’s otherwise great, I’d just assume you can take those days, then have a conversation about it once he’s less stressed out.

      Reply ↓
  7. Go Grant Lightning*

    I have a meeting this afternoon with my bosses to “talk about my role”. The vibe I’m getting is a discussion on picking up some of the makerspace duties since we had to let go of our part timers. I love the makerspace but if you have good vibes to spare please send them my way cause I am SO nervous.

    Reply ↓
    1. Throwaway Account*

      Do you want to pick up more maker space duties or are you trying to avoid that?

      Whatever you want, ask lots of questions and ask if you can agree to revisit any new arrangements in say 4 months (or whatever works for you) so you have a built in way to let them know if it is not working for you.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
      1. Go Grant Lightning*

        I actually would enjoy the makerspace duties. The thing is that this was designed as a role for another full time librarian. When the city denied our budget increase that role fell to the cutting room floor. I am the grant writer on top of being a librarian and there is a lot to consider about duties vs compensation.
        Note this is all speculation at this point. I just need to calm my nerves. (places hand dramatically against forehead)

        Reply ↓
        1. Mostly Managing*

          Remember that in this kind of conversation you don’t have to give an answer on the spot.
          You can ask as many clarifying questions as you need to.
          Then say something like, “This is a really interesting opportunity. I’d like to take the weekend to think it through. Can we touch base on Monday morning? (or whenever).”

          The nice thing about it being Friday, is that taking the weekend is an easy fit, and you get several days to work out if you’re interested (or under what conditions you’re interested).

          Good luck!

          Reply ↓
        2. Mockingjay*

          Ask about task prioritization, is this permanent or temporary change to your role, etc.

          Think like a project manager starting from scratch, having to plan everything out. What are the key tasks or goals that must be defined for you to be successful in this changed and/or increased role?

          Reply ↓
  8. Tommy teapot*

    Partly a vent/partly a question: I work in education (in the US), and have always worked for non-profits or educational institutions that serve schools in some capacity but don’t run strictly on the school schedule. This is my first employer that is not closed the week between Christmas Eve and New Year’s day. (We also work in a city where giving some time off on Fridays during the summer is common, and they are also the first employer that doesn’t do that – though they do give us two extra flex days that can be used on a Monday or Friday during the summer.)

    I know that our leave policies are generous by most USian standards (closed federal holidays, plus a few extra days e.g. the day after Thanksgiving, the Friday/Monday if the 4th of July falls on Tuesday/Thursday; plus a bank of 20-25 general PTO days – but no dedicated personal or sick days) but I am so annoyed by how stingy they feel compared to every other place I’ve worked. I think some of my frustration is with some general management culture being a little too much butts-in-seats and insistent at operating at a very fast pace. For example, we’re a hybrid employer where most people have work that can be done pretty effectively remotely but they’re very strict about people keeping to their designated schedule, and even this week when 2/3 of the organization is taking PTO, they “generously” granted us a week of remote work and then said we had to ensure our calendars were up to date to reflect what we were working on. (And lots and lots of of stuff about how toxic the CEO is wrapped up in this – demanding people drop everything to respond to him, complains when people take too long putting things together, but then tears people apart when they miss information in whatever they’ve put together.) The ~only~ thing I can say about the PTO culture of the organization that’s good is that when you’re taking time off, people don’t bother you.

    So, besides the vent (and comisseration to anyone else in my boat!) – I’m curious for a bit of a reality check. Is this just how it feels in corporate America? Have I gotten too spoiled by other organizations being generous? Is it just my general frustration with management that I’m fixating on this as an issue?

    Reply ↓
    1. CTT*

      Anecdotally, the only people I’ve known who have always had the week between Christmas and New Years off have been teachers. This includes plenty of friends who don’t work in what you would consider corporate jobs. It’s just hard to close for a week in a lot of roles.

      Reply ↓
      1. Always Tired*

        Lots of construction is also off. This is the first year my company didn’t do an official closure, but also like, it’s working days and more than half the subs are closed, and half my guys took it off anyway, so several of our sites are closed.

        Reply ↓
      2. Plate of Wings*

        Lots of tech companies have this week off, in my experience. Probably not all though, but it’s common based on the several I’ve worked at and reports from people I know in this industry.

        Reply ↓
    2. WellRed*

      I think this is all very common, work wise. I also think your frustration is perfectly valid. Sounds like a bad fit for you.

      Reply ↓
    3. Goddess47*

      I worked in higher education all my life, in IT, and none of the institutions I worked at ever closed between Christmas and New Year’s. Folk would take PTO and work hours would be… let’s call it lackadaisical, but the offices were open and folk needed to be available for the three questions that might come in.

      I do think your management, and their micromanagement is your problem… unless you’re getting paid a boat-load of money, I’d be looking for a new job.

      Good luck!

      Reply ↓
      1. Glazed Donut*

        I agree! After working in K-12 education where everyone had the same time off, I switched to government work, where I could choose my vacation but missed the school calendar time off. I prefer the flexibility to take time off when it works for me, like traveling during slower seasons. Around this time of year, work slows down anyway – there literally are three emails to reply to. Being told to constantly update your calendar feels like micromanaging, making minor annoyances worse.
        Hope you find a new place or a new team in the new year!

        Reply ↓
        1. Tommy teapot*

          Yes, there are definitely some advantages to being able to choose your own schedule. My best role was at a higher ed org (still working within K12) where I got 4+ weeks of vacation, 2+ weeks of sick time, summer Fridays, generous holidays, and the week between Christmas and New year closed. I think that maybe just spoiled me a bit.

          Reply ↓
      2. Tommy teapot*

        I am kind of being paid a boat load of money (most non-profit salaries in my city are substantially depressed compared to roles in the for-profit sector, so it’s a little hard to compare, but most similar roles would pay at least somewhat less). I think that’s part of their excuse for why they work us so hard, and also part of the reason that many of the other organizations I’ve worked for give us the days – because funding meant salary was capped.

        Reply ↓
      3. Tommy teapot*

        But yes, I think you’re right that it’s the management/micromanagement that’s really rubbing me the wrong way, coupled with a generally dysfunctional environment. I actually have a bunch of work to this week and have been appreciative of time to get to some bigger projects without interruption. (But – wouldn’t it be nice if I could do the deep thinking work I needed to during a regular week, without constantly being bombarded with suddenly “urgent” items!). But the message we got was that we needed to detail all of the things we were doing this week, to justify giving us remote work – which feels like the message is really “it’s not ok to slow down ever.”

        Reply ↓
      4. Rainy*

        I’ve been in higher ed for close to 20 years and in my experience, it’s becoming more common for campuses to just close entirely between the 24th and 2nd, with the exception of essential personnel. At my last institution, the first couple of years after they started, they mandated campus closure but you had to use your PTO. Then there were “supplemental state administrative leave days” announced yearly right before Thanksgiving that were only for the Dec-Jan closure. Then a couple of years ago the admin leave for winter break just became part of the package. They’re not movable unless you are essential, so it’s not like you can opt to work that week and take those days another time or anything–they’re not vacation or sick days, they’re administrative days.

        My new institution has the same setup and apparently has done for quite a while.

        Reply ↓
    4. mreasy*

      It’s nearly a deal breaker for me. I work in media so we always have the time off, and when I’ve had jobs that didn’t, it was frustrating to use much of my PTO for a super slow week!

      Reply ↓
      1. anotherfan*

        how odd. i work in media too, but it’s a 24/7/365 kind of job — imagine a newspaper closing for a week! — but I can imagine how frustrating it must be to be forced to use PTO when you’ve been used to having a week off without it costing you your vacation/sick time. It always annoyed the hell out of me to have to use PTO for Yom Kippur when we got Christmas off even if it wasn’t our holiday.

        Reply ↓
      2. Meh*

        I work in media (radio) and we have people in no matter what, even on Christmas. Media never stops. How do you have all the time?

        Reply ↓
    5. Bike Walk Barb*

      You’re conflating the time in office with the leave schedule and they’re two separate issues, then you piled on the micromanaging CEO who sounds like a real problem. I can understand why the total package leaves you frustrated, for sure. The remote work and time in office feels like the bigger issue (although that CEO, ugh).

      I worked for one nonprofit that closed the week between Christmas and New Year’s and didn’t count it against leave. That organization put on a lot of events in spring/summer/fall that involved long, long mandatory days, nights, and weekends. That week off didn’t make up for the hours on a 1:1 basis but it definitely was tied to that required overload in terms of morale. Other nonprofits I’ve been close to didn’t do this. I worked in higher ed for years and we didn’t close although it got very quiet and relaxed. I think you were lucky to have it, but it isn’t a normal schedule.

      I don’t think of 20-25 days PTO with no sick leave as “generous”, more like meeting the market with a couple of extras (that’s a nice touch around the 4th of July–very nice to have extra PTO in summer). I work for a state agency and accumulate vacation and sick leave at a specific rate. Vacation rate increases the longer I work there; it starts at a rate that means you’d have two weeks vacation after a year. Sick leave accumulates at one day/month. So between the two, a new person would have your 20-25 days after their first year. We get a personal holiday we can take any time and federal holidays plus a state holiday, Native American Heritage Day (the Friday that immediately follows Thanksgiving Day).

      Reply ↓
    6. RedinSC*

      I’ve worked in high tech, non profits, state funded university and local government. I’ve never worked at a place that closes between Christmas and new years.

      During my time as a fundraiser, I ALWAYS worked those days as they’re the biggest giving days in the US. In high tech I worked them because it was quiet and I could get my back log of stuff done.

      The people I know who do have work closed during that week are required to use their PTO then as well. So, IDK…paid time off, on the company is like a dream to me. Something the lucky few have. I’ve never experienced it. The banked PTO you get is pretty solid, maybe not THE BEST, but certainly better than average, I’d say.

      it’s rough, though, when you go from having something to not. Couple that with the “butts in seats” mentality, it would rub the wrong way. But this honestly sounds pretty solid to me.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tommy teapot*

        Yes, appreciate the reminder that many places that close don’t give people the time off paid, which would definitely be even more infuriating to me!

        I’m sorry that paid time off, on the company isn’t something you’ve experienced – I hope we all have it one day :)

        Reply ↓
    7. Lurker*

      It was my understanding that a large amount of workplaces in the US don’t close for the week between Christmas and New Years unless it’s a school. Sorry you’re having a bad time!

      Reply ↓
    8. Qwerty*

      You really lost me at complaining that they allowed everyone to be remote for Christmas to New Years, after first complaining that you don’t get that week off and then complaining that the job isn’t remote. It sounds like you’re feeling cranky – sometimes we have those days.

      Most of what I piece together is pretty normal. Combining holidays, vacation, sick, and personal leave usually has added up to 30-35 days off for me, regardless if the company puts them in one bucket or splits it up. Working Xmas through NY is pretty normal and even desired by many people. Hybrid is also normal and sticking to a schedule is generally a good practice so that people can plan around each other.

      Maybe it would be good to really disconnect from work this weekend and go do something fun?

      Reply ↓
      1. Tommy teapot*

        You’re right that I’m cranky :) But just to clarify – my frustrations with the remote work this week were (1) offering us to work remotely like it was some really generous gift they were giving us, when it seems like offering remote work when schools are closed could be a default (and many other comparable orgs are just closed); and (2) the micromanaging approach of telling us we had to document all of the work that we were doing this week if we’re working remotely (especially because people work fine remotely 2 days per week and it is a quiet week for most).

        Reply ↓
    9. I Have RBF*

      So.. I’ve worked for companies that shut down for two weeks during the holidays, and those that only gave Xmas and New Years Day, plus everything in between.

      Most companies that have a heavy operations component, or have a large customer service component, don’t shut down over the holidays, even though everyone and their sibling wants the time off. I tend to work in operations, so even if the rest of the company has off, I’m still on call.

      It’s nice if the company is able to shut down and make sure people have enough PTO to cover the holidays, but it’s not common enough.

      Reply ↓
    10. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      First, your leave policies are not generous. The only people I know who don’t get the Friday off after Thanksgiving work retail. 20 days of PTO all in is about average.

      I’ve worked in nonprofits and corporate, and it is true that nonprofits often offer better benefits. The only nonprofit I worked at that closed between Xmas and NYE was one that served children, so maybe it was to conform with the school schedule, I never thought about that. They didn’t charge us PTO for it either. It was hard to move from that job to a corporate job where I definitely didn’t have as much time off as I wanted, but my salary doubled.

      I then settled at a nonprofit that offered most federal holidays, 3 weeks vacation, 10 sick, and 2 personal days and the ability to roll over 5 days per year. They later switched to a one bucket method but kept the total number of days. And the pay is pretty good.

      My husband once worked at a small for-profit place that closed the week of Christmas but forced employees to use their PTO for it. He had just started in November and he was forced to go into the red. That place sucked a lot of other ways too.

      Reply ↓
      1. Rage*

        Not retail here, and we are open the day after Thanksgiving.

        We didn’t used to be – but a few years back they eliminated 2 scheduled holidays (Good Friday & day after Thanksgiving) and turned them into “personal holidays” that employees can take whenever.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ginger Cat Lady*

        Banks, hospitals, some medical clinics, any small stingy “family owned” company like the one where my family member works, there are LOTS of companies that are not retail that do not give that day off. And some places like a friend’s insurance agency, are closed that day but *require* employees to use a PTO day and if they are out of their whopping 1o annual PTO days, they are actually disciplined for taking an unpaid day off. Even though they could not work if they wanted to.
        Employers are ridiculous sometimes.

        Reply ↓
    11. RussianInTexas*

      I have never heard not only these weeks of, but none of my employers gave us Christmas Eve. Currently I do not have Black Friday as a paid holiday.
      Partner works for a giant multinational corporation and they also do not have these two weeks off. I never heard anyone getting these in the corporate world.

      Reply ↓
      1. RussianInTexas*

        Oh, and I get 10 paid vacation days + 4 sick days, no paid jury duty days. WFH is the only savior, I can do a lot of stuff like doctor’s appointments without taking official time off.
        No, the company is not retail, just cheap.

        Reply ↓
    12. ForcedTimeOff*

      I’ve worked and interviewed across many different industries and manufacturing is the only other one that often “gives” the week between off. I put gives in quotes because all of the places I’ve seen doing this force you to use some form of PTO for this and therefore your time off is very limited the rest of the year. The last place I interviewed that did this required people to use between 9-11 days of the 15 total days they get for the year (including sick time) during thus window.

      Frankly, being forced to take this time off is a dealbreaker for me. I am Jewish and don’t celebrate those holidays, the weather is usually dreadful so it’s difficult to do stuff, and many places are closed or on limited hours so it’s hard to do practical indoor stuff too.

      Thst said, if having that time off is important to you, look at manufacturing companies (they have many non-manufacturing roles).

      Reply ↓
    13. Green Goose*

      I worked in education for about 13 years as a teacher and then at an education nonprofit, both had those days off. I now work at a tech company and we also have that time off.
      My hub and most of my friends don’t get that week off but are encouraged to take the days off since it’s slower.

      Reply ↓
  9. Green Goose*

    What do people think about the trend of using very outdated/different/super filtered looking photos for a work photo? I switched fields to a more male-dominated field recently and I have seen so many people using photos that look nothing like them (both men and women). And I’m not meaning “he/she looks a few years younger in their photo”, more along the lines of they do not even look like the same person.
    I find this so bizarre and its kind of confusing. There are people who have helped me on projects via slack (so I see their photo) but then I might encounter them in person but not even realize it is the same person. I’m normally the type to say hello if we have worked together.
    I understand wanting a flattering photo of yourself, but shouldn’t it still resemble you enough that if someone saw you in person they would connect that it was you? Is this the norm now or is my company an outlier?

    Reply ↓
    1. CherryBlossom*

      I think that’s just a natural consequence of letting people use their own photos for slack/teams/email/etc. Inevitably someone’s gonna go ham with the filers and touch-ups.

      That said, some people are better at facial distinguishing than others. I’ve always been able to put the photo and the person together in my mind, no matter how different they are. But some of my coworkers didn’t recognize me if I take my glasses off, even if we see each other every day. (I suppose I get how Clark Kent does it now!)

      Reply ↓
      2. PP*

        LOL glasses / no glasses not being recognized. Some people are that way about varying hairstyles!

        There are also people who really, really change their face via makeup.

        Reply ↓
      3. Green Goose*

        I’m actually really good with faces and can remember faces forever (not always great with names) so it’s bothered me when I “meet” the person in-person and talk to them like I don’t know who they are and then I learn after the fact that they are the same person I’ve been working on a project with for months and then I feel like I come across like a clod.

        Also, lots of people with the same names so John at the coffee machine might be the same John from HR.

        Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      I blame bad photogs/retouchers who have made this normal and makes people think this is what getting professional headshots is supposed to look like.

      Reply ↓
    3. Fotze*

      I don’t do social media, so I do understand what you’re saying, and using photos like that is weird. The fact people seem to be so used to seeing themselves with crazy filters on is just…mind boggling.
      But I’m a grumpy elder millennial. Currently, my Microsoft picture is one of the Parliament in Budpest that I took at night, with a boat in front of it, along the river. I realize it’s not me, but my coworkers almost exclusively use pet photos, or nothing. I figure it’s better than a pic of my cats or dog. It certainly brings me joy.

      Reply ↓
    4. Banana Pyjamas*

      I bet people are using AI photos. I tried to use a couple of different AI tools to combine photos of myself to make a professional headshot, and multiple times it completely replaced my face. I gave up, and I just removed the background from the most reasonable photo and manually edited out my purse strap.

      Reply ↓
    5. Friday Person*

      I’m not sure this is a “trend” or a new development so much as a thing that sometimes happens. People like flattering photos of themselves!

      My current employer did a round of professional headshots a while back so my photo is a couple of years old and my hair looks far better than it ever does in the course of my regular workday but even if I wanted to do something about that, I think it would require significantly more hassle than “representing myself less attractively” is really worth.

      Reply ↓
    6. Tempest*

      There was a post on Reddit this week about someone who had submitted their photo for the company website, and the company put it through an AI filter before posting it without her knowledge. (This was on mildlyinfuriating.) So maybe it’s the companies doing it!

      Reply ↓
    7. RedinSC*

      We were asked to give a photo for our website. But I really didn’t want to, so I handed over a picture of the horse I ride. So, there’s a massive filter, right?

      But also my work brought in a professional photographer and we got nice head shots, but I was having a bad hair day, so I didn’t want to use any of them.

      I am that person.

      Reply ↓
    8. Harlowe*

      My company uses our profile photos in media, and we can’t opt out. I otherwise stay off the internet, so I resent this being mandatory. Because of that, I make certain it resembles me as little as possible.

      Reply ↓
      1. PP*

        I’d want to do the same thing if I was put in that situation. If my job is not being a model for an ad agency that your contracted with (or directly being the company’s ad model), then no, the fact that I just work there doesn’t encompass me using my face to advertise for you.

        Reply ↓
    9. RagingADHD*

      The ones like that at my office aren’t a trend, it’s just that we have a lot of people who have worked here for 15 or 20 years (or more), and they don’t normally think about getting new headshots unless they get promoted to like, EVP or something. They aren’t filters, that’s just how really looked in 2005.

      Reply ↓
    10. Rara Avis*

      My employer only uses an in-house photographer, and if you’ve been there a while (24 years, in my case) they schedule you for an update.

      Reply ↓
  10. CherryBlossom*

    Hello all! I’ve been here a few times with The Dishware Committee, and I FINALLY have an update!

    Context: We’re moving to a new office, so we needed plates and cutlery for the office kitchen. It became a 3-months long ordeal with constant meetings that included the CEO and CFO. They were just so emotionally invested!

    Reader, I want you to imagine a standard restaurant plate and utensils. The very first thing that came to mind? That’s what we went with. After months of debate, deliberation, discussions, and so many spreadsheets (that I was in charge of updating), all for plain white plates and the most generic looking utensils.

    Were I not still feeling the frustration of having to deal with it, I would be laughing at how absurd this whole farce was. Anyways, yes, I am very much job hunting.

    Reply ↓
      1. RedinSC*

        That would be awesome.

        These are the most expensive plates when you factor in, CEO, CFO and other staff time to make the decision!

        Reply ↓
    6. Bike Walk Barb*

      Congratulations! Just don’t ask them if they’ve thought about what kind of paper napkins to provide, or whether they’d rather have paper towels available for use as napkins….

      Reply ↓
    8. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      Hahahaha! Thank you, because *I* am laughing at the absurdity. I wonder how much the company paid in salaries for everyone involved to reach that solution?

      Reply ↓
    9. Invisible fish*

      I am thrilled at this update. I was looking for it! One can only dream of being high enough up in an organization to waste everyone’s time in this manner! (Good luck on your job search.)

      Reply ↓
  11. Knitting as Foci*

    Tiny good news: my 3-4 week part time & temp position was just turned into a full-time, permanent position. The pay isn’t quite what I would like, but this is the first time since 2020 that I’ll have a full-time position. A very nice Solistice and Christmas gift.

    Reply ↓
    4. Banana Pyjamas*

      Do we think retail workers of years past hated Bing Crosby as much as modern retail workers hate Michael Buble? I noticed Bing was “the official voice of the Decca Christmas catalog”, and it got me wondering.

      Reply ↓
  12. lapnep*

    Do you have a great office/work from home chair? If so please recommend! One of my wfh days is an 11-hour day and it’s rough every week. Does not need to be cheapest but best bang for buck preferred. Thanks & happy Friday :)

    Reply ↓
    1. call me wheels*

      Not sure about best value for money because I recieved mine through the Disabled Student Allowance, but I believe my one at home is the zentofit ergonomic task chair from osmund ergonomics, and that’s what I’m asking my new job to get me so I can have one at the office also.

      Reply ↓
      1. Retirednow*

        Having gone through several office chairs during the pandemic, I would say buy the most expensive one that fits you and Test out as many as you can. We wound up spending a lot more money than we thought we would need to, but the chairs are perfect. They’re two different kinds because I am short and squat and my husband is tall and skinny, which is why it’s important to test them

        Reply ↓
    2. Parenthesis Guy*

      What’s your budget? If it’s up to $500, I’d consider Branch. I forget exactly what those chairs cost and I actually think they are much less than $500 but I’m sure they’re not over that.

      Reply ↓
    3. Kay*

      I just bought a Beautyrest Ergomax mesh chair and absolutely love it (I wasn’t even in need of a new chair really). If you like lumbar support this one is something akin to using the same gas lift that adjusts the height of the chair and applies that to your back.

      Its been so good on my back I haven’t even been using the stand up function of my desk much.

      Reply ↓
    4. acmx*

      I have a Steelcase that I like that is almost short enough for me. Mine cost around $500 and is customizeable. There’s usually 20% off.

      Reply ↓
    5. Philosophia*

      Steelcase Leap. My workplace secured the then-current version for me to use on site, and I was fortunate enough to find the previous version, solidly refurbished by a reliable vendor, for my WFH setup. I’m short-waisted and long-limbed, somewhat shrunken in height with age.

      Reply ↓
    6. I Have RBF*

      I bought a refurb Steelcase Leap v2 from Crandall Office Furniture. It wasn’t cheap, but my previous chair was the wrong size and was causing me problems. I WFH, and am seated for often long periods of time. A good chair is essential.

      Reply ↓
    8. fhqwhgads*

      Google office furniture liquidators in your area. Then go to one. Sit in allllllll the chairs. You don’t need to buy there if you don’t want to, but it’s a good way to get a feel for a lot of high quality chairs.
      The gold standard is usually Herman Miller Aeron. Some people prefer Mirra, or Sayl. Steelcase LeapV2 or Think are also popular. Gesture people tend to love or hate. Branch are also good and usually less expensive (especially if you want one new).
      But seriously, the liquidators will have tons, usually fully loaded with all the adjustables, and usually for less than half what these cost new.

      Reply ↓
      1. Cedrus Libani*

        Agreed. That’s what I did when I was ready to move on from the basic office-supply store version. FYI, if you get a used chair, there’s a good chance that the wheels will be trash. (They pick up all the hair that falls on the office carpet, so they can get gunked up fairly quickly.) Spend the extra $20 for a new set. They’re a standard size and pop right on.

        Reply ↓
    10. Paint N Drip*

      We have Branch brand ergonomic chairs at our workstations, and they are well-reviewed. Run about $350 and adjust in every way imaginable, as far as I can tell. I find the chair very comfy and supportive, and as a short person it adjusts to fit me well (but my coworker is over 6′ tall and adjusts well to their body too)

      Reply ↓
    11. samecoin*

      honestly do you live near a private university that is well off? I got my $1000+ hermann miller chair because one of the departments was doing renovations and they didn’t have room to store the old items. The chair was less than three years old.

      Reply ↓
    12. Alice*

      I’m very happy with an Ikea gaming chair. Very adjustable. Definitely get a carpet or floor protector if you have wood floors though.

      Reply ↓
    13. LinkedIn Anonymous*

      Office furniture salesperson here: I personally prefer a Humanscale Diffrient. the adjustments are super easy – the back adjusts to you.
      The Herman Miller Aeron is popular, but I prefer an upholstered set and this has a mesh seat. The HM Sayl is a good chair, the back really hugs.
      Steelcase Leap is a great chair.
      Best for the price I would say is a Sit On It Amplify. Great lumbar adjustment.

      Reply ↓
      1. I Have RBF*

        One job I had replaced all of our chairs, even the ergo ones that were bought specifically for us, with the HM Sayle chairs, saying “Oh, they are ergonomic, they fit everyone. We want uniformity!” They did not fit me, no matter what adjustments I used.

        Reply ↓
    14. Long time reader*

      Yes!!! We had Hon Volts in my previous office and I was amazed I could sit nearly all day with no back pain. When the pandemic happened and we went to WFH, I bought my own. I’m still extremely happy with it!

      Reply ↓
  13. nm*

    I manage a team of 10 and we have a fairly new hire (about 5 months now) on our team. He’s doing good, he gets along with everyone, he’s nice, he’s picked up the job (first time working in the field) but I just had a weird situation come up.

    Last week he emailed me at the end of shift with a suggestion about a software platform we use in our jobs. It’s not ours, we license it and it’s really not all that customizable. The suggestion was a good one, but overall, it wouldn’t help workflow and would probably cause some problems. I emailed him back, thanking him for the suggestion and explained why it wouldn’t work, including the limitations of the software itself. He was agreeable in the email, didn’t seem annoyed.

    Today I got an email from our rep for the software, forwarding me an email from the new hire… that basically asked what he had of me, which included the limitations he saw (which were exactly word for word what I had typed). The rep just wanted to check in and see if this was something we were interested in & etc. Thankfully having worked with the rep for years, I think he realized that I didn’t ask the new hire to send this email nor wanted the changes.

    I’m a bit… annoyed about this. Anyone is welcome to email the software support when they are having a problem, but I’ve never had someone just submit things to them, especially after I said no. I went back and read my reply to the new hire and these were my exact words, “It’s a very clever idea, but ultimately not very practical for what we do. The software has limitations (explained what they were) and even if we were able to overcome those, it wouldn’t be beneficial for everyone’s workflow. I appreciate the suggestion and please, feel free to send me anything else…”

    The new hire is off until after the new year, I plan on talking to him in person about it, telling him that going over my head was not a good move. It makes me wonder if there are other things he’s doing over my head that I don’t know about. Besides this, I haven’t had a reason to wonder about his work. I wonder if it has to do with not working in our field, but he’s held similar office jobs before, I would think this would be common sense not to go over someone’s head.

    Reply ↓
    1. Zona the Great*

      I’d say wait to see how he responds and realigns after you speak to him. He probably didn’t know you’d ever find out about it so I assume he’ll be a little sheepish. I am someone with ADHD and sometimes lose control of myself, especially when I was younger. Is he young?

      Reply ↓
      1. nm*

        He’s young, mid 20’s, but he’s not new to the work force, just new to this field. I’m assuming he didn’t think I’d find out either and I wonder if the software could do what he wanted, he’d try to surprise me with it? Like oh look, I fixed the problem! I’m torn between thinking he was being rude about it, but then also maybe trying to impress me?

        Reply ↓
        1. Zona the Great*

          In the end, both are true. This was rude of him and he was trying to impress you. Report back when the talk is done!

          Reply ↓
        2. fhqwhgads*

          Almost definitely both. I don’t think he thought you wouldn’t find out. I think he wanted to ask them – acknowledging the limitations you noted, hence quoting you – in hopes THEY’d come up with a workaround or enhancement, and then he’d be like “look, now my idea WILL work” and he was just ignoring the “won’t actually be beneficial to the workflow” part.

          Reply ↓
    2. Glazed Donut*

      I wonder if he realized he went over your head, especially if he’s new (and young – new to the world of work). He may have thought he was working on fixing the limitations you pointed out.
      In my earlier work life, I could see that having been a “oh, manager says these are problems, so let me see if I can fix them for her” email, especially if there wasn’t a clear “No, we won’t be doing that.” Sometimes softer language (“appreciate the suggestion, but…”) isn’t as clear to people with less experience.

      Reply ↓
      1. nm*

        Yeah, I was worried my lanuage was too soft but I don’t want to discourge him from making more suggestions! I was pretty firm with the no, we won’t be doing it. When I speak to him, I plan on saying that if he wants to see changes in the software then those need to come to me and he can contact the software company for support issues but not for something like this. I think it’s a pretty fair request.

        Reply ↓
        1. Bike Walk Barb*

          Sounds like he needs this clarification around process. Like Glazed Donut, I thought he could be thinking of this as showing initiative, not going around you. Going around you to many people would have looked like taking it to your boss without talking with you; an outside vendor may feel like they’re not part of an organizational structure that makes some kinds of questions off limits from his position.

          Reply ↓
          1. ASD always*

            Interesting, I tend to think of external vendors as more off-limits than internal higher-ups. I’m not privy to the exact wording of the various contracts, and definitely don’t have the seniority to make feature requests that could come with a massive bill for the company I actually work for.

            Reply ↓
        2. Observer*

          It sounds like you need to clarify processes here.

          And tell him explicitly that when you explain a problem that does not mean that you want him to try to find fixes or work arounds. Also, and make this clear separately, that he cannot go to the software folks to make changes to the software you use – that *must* go through you.

          Reply ↓
        3. fhqwhgads*

          Yeah, this is why a lot of corporate software will have designated contacts, rather than allowing all users to submit stuff. I say this as someone who works for one. We’re not trying to gate-keep info, but we are trying to make sure that the on-staff expert is the filter, since they know more and can provide context not every user would have.
          Given that your software doesn’t use that model, it is absolutely reasonable to tell him the workflow should be:
          support request – feel free to submit. And then give him a few examples of what a support request is: getting an error, etc.
          enhancements, training, whatever else – goes through you and should NOT be directed to the vendor. And then give a few examples of what these requests are.

          Reply ↓
          1. nm*

            There is just one main contact, me, for the rep but since the software is vitial to workload, staff can submit trouble tickets directly to the company. Sometimes someone might be having an issue that no one else is having based on their circumstances. He ended up submitting it to the support ticket system and since it didn’t fit, it got forwarded to the rep.

            Reply ↓
      2. Observer*

        I wonder if he realized he went over your head, especially if he’s new

        That was my first thought as well.

        He may have been thinking that you mentioned a problem, so he’s going to see if he can “fix” it.

        Reply ↓
    3. Parenthesis Guy*

      #TeamEmployee

      I’d also agree he was trying to take the initative to impress you. This isn’t how I’d go about it, but I’d encourage initative rather than discouraging it. Remember that part of the job for young employees is making mistakes like these — otherwise how else do they learn.

      Reply ↓
      1. Busy Middle Manager*

        Agreed. I’ve managed in the OP’s environment and I wouldn’t want to kill the initiative. I would give the new hire a logical reason not to contact the software vendor directly. It’s not about “doesn’t look good,” it’s that there is usually time/cost involved and project priority. A quick fix may take ten hours and cost $1200 and push another item down further on the list. That’s why it needs to be discussed, not because you like chain of command for its own sake.

        I will say OP, as annoying as it is, I occasionally let newer people do a small project like this to give them a sense of how stuff works and to get them involved in the software development process on something minor/inconsequential.

        I’d really only be pissed off if they told the vendor to push something important down in priority to do their pet project

        Reply ↓
        1. nm*

          I think it’s important for me to note, what he wanted to change isn’t a problem that needs to be fixed. It’s not really an improvement either, he just thought it would be easier to do it his way, when in reality it would screw up an established workflow and the software wouldn’t be able to account for it. (Vague, I know but I’d rather not explain the whole sordid thing!)

          Reply ↓
    4. cmdrspacebabe*

      I find your employee pretty relatable – this is the kind of thing I would also probably wind up investigating on my own. Not even with the intent of bringing it back to you, I would have done it just to confirm my own impression of the technology. I have the same habit when I work with techs – if they tell me they can’t do something, I believe them in practice and don’t push for workarounds, but I’ll still investigate. It’s mostly out of curiousity, and maybe a liiiittle bit of compulsion. Generally what’s going through my mind is, “well there HAS to be a solution SOMEWHERE or that’s just SILLY, but I’m not going to ask the developers to investigate because they have more important work to do”.

      I don’t actually TELL them I’m doing this, though, because I know it implies I think I’m better at their jobs than they are! I wonder if that’s a bit of what you’re reading from this, because I don’t see much to react to in what you’ve wrote. You might be seeing his email as “Please prove that my boss is wrong and I am right so I can rub it in”, when maybe what he meant was “Wait, does the software seriously not account for this issue? That seems odd and I want to make sure we’re not missing something useful”.

      Reply ↓
      1. Observer*

        Generally what’s going through my mind is, “well there HAS to be a solution SOMEWHERE or that’s just SILLY,

        In other words, you *do* think you know more than the techs. I get this All. The. Time. from people who think like you and it gets exhausting. A lot of things seem “silly” but actually turn out to be pretty intractable to change for some reason.

        Reply ↓
        1. Synaptically Unique*

          Eh. We’re in the midst of transitioning the main system we use and things we’ve been told aren’t feasible to do for years are just standard user-level options in the new software. And it was “SILLY” that our original vendor couldn’t do those things. Really depends on context and end-user experience and skills.

          Reply ↓
      2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        I would never dream of going over my manager’s head to the company’s software vendor to ask for a bespoke update. Good grief. For one, an employee on the bottom rung does not make purchasing decisions. And two, he was explicitly told it wouldn’t be useful and ignored that.

        Also, if you do this all the time, I’m surprised you still believe that there “has to” be a solution that you will accept. In my experience, that is rarely true, so you must waste a lot of time on wild goose chases.

        Reply ↓
      3. Tio*

        There’s a chain of command in processes like these for a reason – to me the big issue here is the end run around the manager when he got told no. And honestly, I find it kind of silly that if the OP explained to him why these solutions wouldn’t work clearly – which she did – does he REALLY think that no one else in the company ever thought to ask these questions to the vendor? If you stop and think, if OP can articulate the problems to him, certainly she could have articulated them to the vendor ages ago and gotten an answer before. (And sometimes the answer is “it exists but costs too much to give a good return on value”).

        People running around their managers can cause a lot of issues. And problem solving and initiative is good – lord knows I have seen plenty of employees who seem to run on AI and can’t function without a specific input command – but you also need to know when the right time and place for it is, and how to follow the correct chain of command.

        Reply ↓
        1. nm*

          A note – the issue he brought up wasn’t a problem to be fixed. It works fine and the thing he wanted to do, wouldn’t be something that needs to be fixed either. It’s hard to explain – he thought he saw a work around but in reality it would just shift the workload down the line and not improve it.

          Reply ↓
    5. JSPA*

      He didn’t go above your head (that’s one sort of problem, but sometimes warranted). He did two somethings that are both more problematic.

      1. went to an outside supplier and let them think he was speaking on behalf of the company.

      2. pesented your feedback as his own ideas.

      There 100% would have been ways to reach out with end-user feedback without violating these two issues. But it would have had to have been SUPER heavy on, “had an idea that you might like, boss says it’s not really relevant for us, but I’m passing it along anyway in case it’s useful on your end.”

      You can’t fudge (even by omission)
      a) your role / your right to request changes
      b) your company’s / your boss’s clearly stated preferences
      c) whose ideas are whose
      d) that this is user feedback, not a company-to-company request.

      Those are big, big deals, regardless of motivation.

      For all he knew, they might have done what they expected to be billable work for your company!!! It’s not like a day trader losing trillions, but it’s up there with a toddler ordering a thousand ice cream bars via Alexa. Put in those terms, he should understand how problematic this is…no matter how wedded he is to his own brilliant insights.

      Finally, I’d address directly how “being smart and proactive” is 100% not protection against “getting so far outside your lane that you’re sideswiping people and running off the road.”

      Reply ↓
      1. HoundMom*

        I am looking at other posters’ responses and they seem so compassionate, but it feels like this employee needs to be sat down and explained the limits of his role.

        This is seriously outside this employee’s responsibilities and a Big Deal. And, obviously so — the software rep understood that the employee has no standing to request a solution and reported him back to the OP who has this standing.

        The OP was transparent and gave a detailed response as to why the software works the way it does and how the suggested changes would not resolve any issues. A lot of managers would not take that time to explain it to the employee. Hats off to the OP.

        The OP needs to share the fact that the software company reached out so he can see how out of the norm he was to reach out.

        Reply ↓
        1. Double A*

          The OP made another comment that clarified he submitted his request via the normal ticket system, and it got forwarded to the rep, so that to me suggests he had no idea where the request would go, and I bet he didn’t expect it to go there.

          Reply ↓
          1. fhqwhgads*

            That suggests to me the guy doesn’t understand how any of this works and doesn’t know the difference between a support request or an enhancement request or that different people handle different things. Seems like he thinks “support ticket system is how I talk to Vendor so I will do that”. I’ve been on the other end of this type of thing a lot and 99% of the time the person asking has either grossly misunderstood the size of the team behind Product or grossly miscalculated his company’s weight which he is trying to throw around.

            Reply ↓
      2. linger*

        Certainly (b) this employee is not great about hearing “no”.
        Mitigating somewhat against (a) and (d) is the fact that this was submitted NOT direct to the vendor rep, but instead via the staff troubleshooting ticket system. An understandably confused consultant passed it on to the rep, which is how it came to be flagged for the OP (fortunately putting a stop to it before any real damage was done). However, it does suggest this employee should not be trusted with direct contact info for any vendor company.
        I’m ambivalent about whether (c) is a serious problem here, because explicitly attributing any part of the message to OP would have made it seem more of an official request than it was. Though it does flag proper attribution of colleagues’ work as something to watch out for in future.

        Reply ↓
    6. Apex Mountain*

      I’m not entirely sure what the new hire did that was so wrong. Talking to a vendor about their product doesn’t sound like going over someone’s head, or at least not in a meaningful way.

      Bigger issue imo is that could just buy it on his own (you mentioned that as a possiblity), it sounds like that’s where the process needs to be tightened.

      Overall sounds like a good employee who may have slightly overstepped

      Reply ↓
    7. Qwerty*

      I advise against categorizing this as going over your head. It sounds more like he didn’t recognize the “no” and thought he was taking initiative in solving a problem.

      Going over your head would have been if the employee when to your boss. He didn’t. He reached out the vendor – a neutral third party. I imagine if this had been a non-tech suggestion and you said “no, because the highlighters are kept on the top shelf” his focus would have been “why are they on the top shelf? If I move them lower, then we can have !” and rearranged the supply closet.

      It would be better to help him recognize the “no” in your email – and also miss if you softened the message too much. As managers, we have to constantly check our own communication to see if there are missing assumptions. Long term team members know us and can automatically fill in what we want but new hires expose the gaps. His mistake was that he thought you gave a problem to solve rather than a hard no. My guess is it’ll end up being 80% youthful eagerness but you’ll find some takeaways too.

      I think it is fine to tell him that he’s free to reach out directly to vendor for troubleshooting but feature requests / changes to the software needs to come from you. But approach more from a “one person should manage this vendor relationship” not a “talking to the vendor is going over my head” angle.

      Reply ↓
      1. Tio*

        Someone above characterized it as not “going over her head” but “went to an outside supplier and let them think he was speaking on behalf of the company” and honestly I think it’s kind of the same thing either way, but it is a problem that needs to be addressed. The vendor knew he shouldn’t be doing it, OP knows he shouldn’t be doing it, he’s the only one who thinks this was an ok thing to do. If the vendor had taken him at his word and started working on this, it’s either billable support time, or you’ve wasted his day on something he never should have been working on because you didn’t want it and weren’t going to use it in the first place. So, tomato or tomahto, it is actually an angle that needs to be addressed in some way.

        Reply ↓
        1. Apex Mountain*

          To me the bigger issue is that this new hire can just contract with a vendor on his own with no approvals from above? That needs to be corrected

          Reply ↓
    8. NormalBehavior*

      It seems weird that you’re categorizing this as going over your head unless he explicitly asked for them to develop support for the feature so your org can use it. An inquiry about functionality is just that – an inquiry about functionality. It implies no direct intent to do anything or pay for anything. It is a request for information.

      Now, I’d likely have done it before raising the idea of doing X with you, but it’s something most technical people would see as totally routine on either side of the ask, and something a good employee might do solely to further their own understanding of the tool with no intention of applying the information at their current job. It could come up in the future, though, and having that type of info in your brain is normal and expected. A brainstorming session at a future job might tickle the memory – oh that tool I used at company A a few years ago supported doing X which was sort of like Y. We didn’t even use X functionality so I can’t speak to it in detail, but we could explore if it’s been expanded to do Y now.

      For what it’s worth, as someone who triaged customer requests and issues at former jobs, I got that type of inquiry all the time. I’ve also made them myself. Unless your employee was spending gobs of time on this or misbilling the time spent on it or somesuch it seems well within normal working parameters as long as he or she didn’t indicate you wanted to finance adding that functionality.

      Reply ↓
    9. Double A*

      I don’t think your “No” was actually clear enough; you really soft-pedaled it. Let me suggest how it could have been interpreted:

      “It’s a very clever idea [reasonable interpretation: this is a good idea], but ultimately not very practical for what we do [reasonable interpretation: but could be practical if we overcame limitations]. Here are the limitations [optimistic but not totally unreasonable interpretation: we could look into overcoming these]. Even if we were able to overcome those, it wouldn’t be beneficial for everyone’s workflow [another optimistic but not totally unreasonable interpretation: since this is a good idea, it’s reasonable to look into overcoming the limitations because if we did, I do think it would be useful for everyone’s workflow].”

      Having had the above train of thought, the logical next step is to inquire with the software rep, include the identified limitations, and see if Boss feels differently if it’s possible to overcome them. I honestly see this more as naivety or not having picked up on the expected hierarchy (because is an outside rep “above your head” inherently?)

      Reply ↓
    10. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Another thought. You say he’s new to your industry. By any chance, is his background related to software development? This sounds like something some of my tech friends might have gotten involved with: The big difference is they were working for tech firms. I have to wonder if his industry shift was intentional or just what was available. If the second does he want to work for the vendor not you?

      Reply ↓
    11. Plate of Wings*

      I feel like I’m channeling Alison LOL but this really depends on what else you know about this employee! It could be a sign of disruptive carelessness like how someone said “speaking on behalf of the company”. It could be that he didn’t clock the “no” in your reply and thought he was playing by the rules by using the ticketing system and he’ll be mortified when you explain how it came off.

      I’m inclined to guess the latter because he made a ticket and was surprised your rep received the ticket about it and went to you. Or at least he was surprised that the rep received the ticket. Even the smallest amount of experience working with your company’s software rep teaches you that their role includes overseeing communication with the vendor in all channels, especially any support or ticket system. So he sounds inexperienced and your no was very soft.

      But he might be a gumption-y steamroller, depends on everything else.

      Reply ↓
    12. Lanam*

      I think you buried your main point “even if we were able to overcome those, it wouldn’t be beneficial for everyone’s workflow” — by talking about all the limitations it’s possible you gave him the perception that those were driving your response, rather than the workflow impact. I agree with the majority that he might have thought he was taking initiative and addressing your primary concern, not clocking your actual primary concern since it seemed like an aside in your note. Agree with all the commenters – clarify your message and expectations about contacting vendors, and when taking initiative crosses a line. He’s new, I’d give him grace on this one.

      Reply ↓
  14. Deflated tire*

    I’m feeling not supported at work. Not really seeking advice, maybe confirmation that this sucks.

    I have colleague who we’ll call Mary. She keeps coming to me for help on a software that she’s supposed to be responsible for. I’ve said/written multiple times that I don’t configure/maintain this software and she needs to reach out to the software vendor for support. It feels like when something sounds technical/hard, she comes to me despite me saying this isn’t my responsibility. We’re not even in the same department.

    The last time I was out of office, she tried emailing me to ask who else at our job could help her with troubleshooting. There’s no reason for her to believe any of our other colleagues can help her. Also…Mary has been in her role for two years at this point (yes, two years). So if there were anyone else who could help her, she’d have met them already. My product manager (PM) was cc’d on the email and for some reason, he didn’t bluntly tell her no one else can help her, but he gave her a soft and misleading response along the lines of “we’re short staffed so we’re limited in the help we can offer.” I felt let down at that point. I met with my PM and manager and I bluntly told them that if this happens again when I’m OOO, then they need to tell her to reach out to the software vendor.

    The push back I got from them and Mary’s grandboss (not directly from her grandboss, but passed along) was along the lines of how I need to understand that Mary has knowledge gaps, there’s no one to train her, etc… Yes, but it doesn’t fall on me to fill in those knowledge gaps…or to effectively do the hard parts of Mary’s job. I know folks will jump on the lack of training part, but trust me when I say the software vendor has an online learning center, Mary can create a support ticket with the vendor for help, and this isn’t an entry level role. No one can know everything, but Mary seriously has to stop coming to me for help whenever something doesn’t go as expected. She certainly shouldn’t be going to anyone else at our job either. After two years, I don’t think I have any benefit of the doubt left to give.

    Reply ↓
    1. Not A Manager*

      Did they explicitly tell you that you have to train Mary or support her? What would happen if you replied to every question from her with the same boilerplate: “Sorry I can’t help you with this, I suggest you contact the vendor’s customer support”?

      Reply ↓
      1. Hiring Manager (they/them)*

        This. If it’s not OP’s duty and their managers just refuse to acknowledge the issue, OP can comfortably keep saying “I probably sound like I’m beating a dead horse Mary, but I have no idea – that’s something to talk to the vendor rep about.”

        I can see how it’s frustrating that the managers didn’t say that directly, but that’s the managers’ problem. If they want something and Mary didn’t get it to them on time, that’s not your fault and you should just keep calmly saying “that’s not my role.”

        Obviously it’s a little different if there are direct impacts on OP’s job, but if it’s just an annoying coworker from another department who’s trying to pass their incompetence off on someone else, it is the most satisfying to not let those people bother you and get to be as polite, professional and *brief* as possible.

        Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      Nope. Their lack of ability to manage her is not your responsibility. I refuse to suffer by default the way they are suggesting you do. Gaps in training?! TWO YEARS! She should have filled her own gaps. Can you write back to every request and ask, “what do your notes say to do in this situation?” As in, figure out how to help yourself Mary!

      Reply ↓
    3. Goddess47*

      Since your boss won’t shut it down, you just need to flatly say to Mary, “I do not know. Have you called the vendor?” Do not say ‘sorry’ or anything that is a weasel that gives Mary an edge in. If your supervisor asks, repeat “I do not know the answer to her questions. If you would like to add that to my job responsibilities, we can discuss the raise I would need to do so.”

      You know your boss best, make that as blunt or as soft as needed. But make it clear that you need authority over Mary *and* financial compensation to be responsible for it, if that’s what they want.

      It’s not pretty. Good luck.

      Reply ↓
    4. Confused by your frustration*

      Sounds like it is grey rock time. Every time Mary asks for your assistance simply reply with “I don’t know, have you tried the Vendor’s learning center?”. You might start CC’ing your manager with every reply so they can see how many often Mary tries to use you as her personal support tech.

      Reply ↓
    5. Msd*

      I’m a bit confused why Mary keeps coming to you. Did you used to support/configure this software? Did you train her when she took on this role? If yes to either question then maybe sit down with her to go over troubleshooting and try to get to the bottom of why she still needs help—do her requests fall into certain categories? Get to the bottom of why ishe is reluctant to contact the vendor. Does needing to call the vendor make her feel stupid? Does the vendor charge for support calls or certain types of calls? Is vendor support not available when she needs it (example only available during business hours and she needs weekend/after hours). Should you have to do this? No but it seems like management is kind of asking you to continue to help her. So as annoying as it is try to solve the Mary problem. (Also, who is her backup?)

      Reply ↓
    6. Saturday*

      Is it possible Mary’s grandboss and/or boss have given her the impression that she should go to you for issues like this? The fact that they didn’t shut it down when it came to their attention makes me think they don’t think this is out of line. If so, perhaps it would be possible to get everyone on the same page with a “I can’t continue to offer support, but the software vendor has great resources” kind of email/conversation?

      Reply ↓
    7. Busy Middle Manager*

      Lack of training is an excuse at this point in my experience, most software platforms are intuitive nowadays, and most hiring processes are stringent enough to weed out people who can’t figure things out on their own.

      You don’t explain why Mary came to you in the first place, which I’m curious about. So I will say, next time she emails or calls, I’d respond, but go into how to fix problems in general. Use a “teach her how to fish” approach. It’s helpful to Mary but also a deflection at the same time. After the third or fourth time, she will stop seeing you as the go-to. I would do this and get rid of the idea that you get justice by her manager realizing she can’t do the job.

      When I did this at my prior jobs where I was overused as a point of contact, my advice would usually be: look up a prior example of a similar report/process/transaction and try to duplicate it. If it errors out or you don’t have access to a screen, reach out to the admin via a ticket

      You can also screenshare and look up the vendors educational material. You can give past examples of problems you figured out on your own too

      The point is not to get Mary in trouble (since her manager doesn’t care) but to get Mary’s brain churning and let her know these questions are too simple to be escalating and frankly embarrassing for her

      Reply ↓
    8. Deflated tire*

      To clarify, I never configured/maintained this software in the past or now. I was never responsible for training her in any of her job responsibilities. I think Mary started coming to me because I’m the Web Developer who maintains our employer’s website that uses this software. So I think she had the misconception that I did do some sort of tech support, but I don’t. I was told when she was hired that it was made clear in her interview that’s she’s going to work to be the Subject matter expert for this software. I think she had comparable experience, but not explicit experience with this software and it was expected she’d grow into the role. Her role isn’t new. The prior employee had moved on, so the role opened up and Mary was hired.

      Her first year, the asks for help were reasonable requests for information and I don’t think she was doing the hard parts of her role. In the past year, there were harder parts…and then she starts coming to me for troubleshooting help. Over the past year, I did speak to my manager and product manager about how Mary kept coming to me for help. They spoke with Mary’s grandboss and I thought things had been worked out…and then she emailed me while I was OOO and asking who else could help her…it was weird…honestly, I don’t see how that didn’t raise some alarm bells about Mary and her understanding about her role/responsibilities.

      My employer is definitely a give the benefit of the doubt place because there hasn’t been a great track record of documenting things and they tend to have a single person be responsible for a thing. I’ve definitely told Mary I can’t help multiple times, but if a new thing comes up it seems like she tries asking again because it’s a new topic and she thinks she’ll get a different answer? But at this point, I’m so tired and I’m worried I’ll just be unprofessional and ask Mary “what is your understanding of your role and responsibilities?” because she’s not acting like this software is her responsibility.

      Reply ↓
      1. fhqwhgads*

        It’s not unprofessional to ask her that unless you do it in an obviously annoyed tone. Like seriously, it may be worth saying that you were told X software is entirely her responsibility so you’re confused why she keeps asking you to help her troubleshoot it. Was her role explained to her differently? Was your role explained to her differently? Because one of you somehow got on the wrong page and let’s get this cleared up. Said in a cheerful, upbeat, teamwork yay kinda tone. No hint whatsoever at “omg you are incompetent and seem to think you can trick me into doing your work for you but I will not”.

        Reply ↓
      2. I Have RBF*

        I was told when she was hired that it was made clear in her interview that’s she’s going to work to be the Subject matter expert for this software.

        If she’s supposed to be the SME for this software, she’s definitely slow on the pickup.

        I’ve walked in to a place where I barely knew a chunk of software, and became an in-house SME in a year. How do I do that? I read all the online help, I do vendor tutorials and webinars, I find additional online articles and resources, and then I use the software, sometime in a “sandbox” mode.

        I know not everyone can do this in a year, but after two years and it’s her job, she needs to step it up.

        Reply ↓
    9. Paint N Drip*

      I don’t know why, but situations like this make me genuinely rage. I think it’s something about people who are happy to take advantage, both Mary and management – you helped one time, maybe even in passing, and now you are the assigned Mary-helper even though if a moment was taken to THINK ABOUT WHAT’S LOGICAL you’d never be in that position. Hate that Mary is held to such a low standard and you’re in such an impossible position, with management choosing to be hands-off – confirmation from a stranger that your frustration is valid.

      Reply ↓
    10. Despachito*

      I read this as Mary asking you questions that are completely outside of your responsibilities, and that the simplest and safest response would be just to tell her every time you have no idea and not engage in it further.

      Is there a reason why you feel so involved and make Mary your problem in a situation where she absolutely isn’t (apart from being annoying)

      If I understand you correctly, it is not in your job description to help Mary in any way, and so you can just repeat over and over and over – “I have no idea how to solve this, Mary, nor do I have any idea who could help you. ” If you were, say an IT expert and she kept coming to you with accounting questions, it would be annoying but pretty clear cut that you are just unable to help her, and to solve it is completely on her (or her boss), not on you.

      Reply ↓
  15. Emac*

    I’m curious if anyone has had recent experience applying for jobs in project/program coordination/admin assistance, especially in higher education, and what was the timeline like? I mean, how long did it take to get a decent offer that you took and how many applications did you send out? I have a month until my temp job is over, I think, and I’m getting nervous!

    Reply ↓
    1. Le le lemon*

      For higher ed in Australia, for these roles, it’s generally quite well paced. advertise the role 2-4 weeks, shortlist candidates (1 week), interview (1 week), contact Preference no. 1 and wait out the 4 week’s notice that’s typical here. (6-8 weeks min). Note, expect job boards to stay empty for a few more weeks, and less jobs overall as Aus gov’t cutting student visa numbers = less income at unis.

      Everything I’ve read here about US uni/colleges is that it takes much, much longer. Even if Department A knows they want Candidate B.
      So, over apply where it’s relevant. It’s a numbers game.

      Reply ↓
    2. Desperately unemployed*

      I’ve been applying to admin roles in higher ed and sometimes it takes them two months (or more!) to even look at my application, at least for Big Universities. Smaller schools can move quicker, but I’d recommend applying to as many as you can now.

      Reply ↓
      1. Quitting Timely*

        This has been my experience, as well. Two or three months to even look at the candidate pool, but then the interview and hiring process was usually only about a week.

        Reply ↓
  16. HiddenT*

    I’ve been further contemplating my options for transitioning to a new field, and I wanted to know if anyone has gotten a PMP certification and whether it improved your job options? Are there any companies you recommend for the course?

    Background: I’ve been working in project management of a certain type for the last 7 years, which doesn’t require any type of certification (in fact I’ve worked with people who had no training whatsoever in project management before starting in this field), but I’m really desperate to get out of this field, as it’s extremely low pay and nonexistent benefits (I’ve worked at 3 different companies at this point and this seems to be consistent across the field). My first inclination was to try to shift to writing/editing (which I do in my current field to a certain extent), but that’s a field that’s very much in flux right now with the damage LLMs are doing, so now I’m trying to figure out other options. Friends have suggested perhaps something in IT project management, although I don’t have an IT background so I’m not sure how feasible that is. When I search “project management” on job sites it seems to all be construction-based, which I also have no knowledge of.

    Reply ↓
    1. Our Business Is Rejoicing*

      PMP here (for nearly 20 years, although I’ve moved on from PM work in the past couple of years). It sounds like you have already been working in project work, which is a prerequisite for getting your PMP, so that’s good. It’s a good ground level certification to have that is pretty flexible in terms of being useful for project work in any field, and in recent years it’s evolved to also include a lot of agile basics, which if you’re looking at IT (specifically at the software development side) you’re likely to run into.

      I was a business/process PM. There was a lot of work working with IT for system updates, rolling out new software, conversions, etc. but you didn’t need to be an IT person per se. The skills most useful in what I did were stakeholder management, communications (especially facilitating conversations between technical and non-technical people), and to some extent, the ability to manage a budget (and, to a larger extent, the overall project plan).

      A really good place to start with all of this is the Project Management Institute (PMI), which administers the PMP exam plus a lot of other certification exams for more niche fields in in the industry.

      Reply ↓
      1. HiddenT*

        Thank you! A follow-up question: I’ve found that a strength of mine is looking at how a system works and noticing ways that it can be streamlined/made more efficient, beyond the scope of a single project. That’s actually a big part of the reason I’m trying to move on from my current job, because the company I work for currently is so incredibly inefficient (they refuse to use a management software at all, we have to track deadlines using our Outlook calendars only), and the two people who run the company refuse to let anyone discuss making any changes to how we do things unless they decide it’s necessary. In your experience, is that a useful skillset for a project manager to have/did you often get to have a say in streamlining processes in that way? If not, do you know another type of job where that’d be a useful skillset?

        Reply ↓
        1. Mockingjay*

          My company has several quality assurance managers that do a lot of what you described: process improvement, efficiency evaluations, and also help maintain several quality certifications for the company (ISO 9000, etc.), including the corporate Quality Management System (QMS). PMP skills are certainly applicable; there are also a number of quality certs you can get. Quality Assurance is a mixture of compliance, processes, auditing, project management tools, training – in short, there are plenty of opportunities and roles for someone like you.

          Reply ↓
          1. HiddenT*

            Thank you! At my previous job before this one I was a department of one and my boss there was the company owner (there were only 2-3 employees including myself), and she was similarly resistant to change, but eventually I realized I could simply make the changes to the process without telling her and when she noticed months later I could say “oh, I’ve been doing that for months” and she would realize it obviously didn’t affect anything other than making me more efficient, so she couldn’t say anything at that point. There was a lot of toxicity there around her unwillingness to change things (including refusing to fire my openly racist and inept coworker), so I was glad when I moved on, but sometimes I miss being able to change processes without anyone caring.

            I’m very good at noticing details and bringing past knowledge to bear on new problems, and a portion of my job is already QA (of the product before we deliver it to the client for a project), so I think it’d probably be a good fit for me.

            Reply ↓
    2. Jshaden*

      I got my PMP certification before I retired from the military specifically to keep certain job options open, and it can definitely do that. While it ended up not being a factor for me, for program/project manager jobs in certain industries can be like having a bachelors degree – not necessarily required to do the job, but will either improve your chances of getting or be required for making in through screenings and/or getting the hired. In the defense contractor world I am most familiar with, a PMP is often highly desired or required for certain roles, especially for government support contracts.

      I did my “bootcamp” class through LearningTree and had a good experience, they taught test taking strategies as much as the actual content, and I found the strategies the most helpful part.

      While you are probably using “project manager” in the same way the Program Management Institute (PMI) does, try searching for “program manager” jobs as well to see what comes up. At least in my field the title “program manager” get used for both “project manager” and “program manager” roles under the PMI definitions of those two terms.

      Reply ↓
      1. HiddenT*

        Thank you! I will check out LearningTree. I’ve already been looking at PMI a bit but it’s just this week I’ve started considering this, so I definitely have more research to do, I just figured this was a good forum to ask people for advice.

        Reply ↓
    3. Stuart Foote*

      Getting a PMP definitely helped my job prospects as a PM. I would highly recommend it.

      At the end of the day, if you are organized, adaptable, and good at communicating you will probably be a good project manager, even if you don’t have a ton of industry specific experience. However, it can be tough to get a hiring manager to see those skills just based on a resume, no matter how good the resume is. If you have any friends that could give you an “in” with whatever company you are looking at, it would be worth trying to leverage that relationship. Sometimes the connection can be pretty distant–I’ve gotten jobs due to a random person posting in a facebook group her dad’s company was hiring, and I’ve been able to help folks get jobs that way too, once because a career coach I’d worked with asked me to help another client get a foot in the door and another time because someone reached out to me on LinkedIn and we turned out to have a connection in common who vouched for them.

      Reply ↓
    4. Lanam*

      I can’t speak to the PMP but to your other comment — look into research project management. Research institutes and legs of universities often have research teams that include a project manager. It is more approachable to the average person than an IT PM position would be (not sure what your area of knowledge).

      Reply ↓
    1. Leo the lion*

      The same way I’d support every other person. Be a civil, kind person and don’t talk about politics at work.

      The person who resides in the White House can’t change how we treat others at work. Can’t we continue to be respectful and courteous to every person… regardless of nationality? I have a coworker who was an immigrant, and she is an amazing person. I treat her like I do every American born person. Besides, she makes delicious homemade tortilla chips :)

      Reply ↓
      1. Ginger Cat Lady*

        They have challenges and worries that “every other person” doesn’t, so they might need different support. Would your answer have been as flippant if they were asking how to support a coworker who just learned their spouse was terminally ill? Or who was going through medical testing to see if they had cancer?
        While being a kind civil person and not talking politics at work is important, it’s the bare minimum, and situations sometimes require more than that. I sure hope you can understand that.

        Reply ↓
        1. Who Plays Backgammon?*

          I didn’t read Leo’s comment as “flippant.” I wouldn’t equate immigrating to another country with being terminally ill. At work I do my job and expect everyone else to do theirs, and I don’t care to get involved in other people’s personal situations or politics. that is totally Their Business.

          Reply ↓
          1. Ginger Cat Lady*

            Cool, cool. You can do whatever you want. The person who asked this question wants to be more supportive than you do, and is asking for tips on how to do that.
            If you don’t want to give a fig about your coworkers as people, that’s certainly your prerogative. But don’t claim that’s the only way to be there at work, or that people can’t do better by their coworkers if they want to.
            And his comment IS flippant and acts like there’s nothing going on right now thatis a problem. “The person in the white house” absolutely matters, and if the incoming president acts on his promises, it IS going to be bad for immigrants. Racists are already emboldened by him.

            Reply ↓
            1. Who Plays Backgammon?*

              a lot of judgement there, and lecturing/leaping to conclusions about what kind of person i am and who and what i care about.

              Reply ↓
      2. Mad Harry Crewe*

        This question was not for you, a non-immigrant. This question was for people who are going to be the first targets of the new administration.

        Reply ↓
        1. JSPA*

          Many immigrants won’t be affected in any way; those who will be may want to be extra careful about not leaving a social media or other electronic trail. Might work better to ask for articles and examples of groups who are helping families prepare for the worst?

          Reply ↓
      3. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        What a weird response. I guess you just wanted to crow about how you manage to treat your immigrant coworker like a person? Congrats, you’ve cleared the lowest bar of decency.

        Reply ↓
      4. The Prettiest Curse*

        As someone who lived in the US on a green card from 2016-20, good LORD this comment is both tone deaf and profoundly unhelpful.

        Reply ↓
      6. Throwaway Account*

        “Can’t we continue to be respectful and courteous to every person… regardless of nationality?”

        Nationality of an immigrant is not the issue. The issue is morality (and it is not the immigrants who are lacking morality). You missed the point entirely. Ginger Cat Lady gave a much kinder answer than you deserve.

        Yes, being kind and civil and not discussing politics at work are important. I asked my immigrant friends and my immigrant spouse, they suggested if you are not friends enough to listen and discuss issues directly, coworkers could focus on picking up work tasks/ picking up slack if they notice a drop in productivity. But keep the focus on work as an escape from everything.

        But they both also said it is so dependent on so many things. One (rich) white blonde French immigrant friend commented that no one has ever told her to “go back where she came from” despite having a very heavy French accent so she is clearly not from here. She said her needs will not be the same as others who do not have the same privileges.

        Reply ↓
        1. Roland*

          > One (rich) white blonde French immigrant friend commented that no one has ever told her to “go back where she came from” despite having a very heavy French accent

          Sounds like it IS also about nationality, then. Idk, maybe Leo’s answer wasn’t all that helpful or whatever but the amount of vitriol being aimed at them for ultimately nothing more harmful than “isn’t up to date on the exact isses some commenters would like them to be” is A Lot.

          Reply ↓
  18. Elevator Elevator*

    Mostly venting, but curious what people think. I accepted a job offer on November 11. Due to procedural delays at what I’ll call the parent company, I wasn’t cleared to start until December 12th. (I used to do onboarding for the parent company’s competitor, and that’s a ridiculous amount of time, but apparently it’s their process.) Once we knew that was my earliest possible start date, my new manager considered my branch’s hybrid schedule and the way the holidays fall and decided it wouldn’t do anyone any good for my first few weeks to have so few in-office days and that it made the most sense for me to start in the new year. So the job I accepted on 11/11 will start on 1/6.

    I think the new office had originally intended to be a lot more communicative, but our industry can be very hectic at year end and I assume I’ve kind of fallen through the cracks for them. I went from an immediate new hire onboarding project to one that was delayed indefinitely and now with the holidays and year end, the start date is just kind of creeping up on everyone and they’ve forgotten to move me off the back burner.

    My last communication with them was last week. I reached out to my hiring contact to update her on my completion of some items required by the parent company, and she thanked me, referenced my start date, and said she’d be in touch “soon.” That was ten days ago, and I start a week from Monday. I plan to touch base next week if they still haven’t reached out, but with all the big procedural stuff resolved, it’s really just going to be me asking what time I should show up.

    I guess I’m just disappointed by the lack of momentum, is all. People keep asking if I’m looking forward to the new job but it feels weird to be in this semi-forgotten in between, logging into a company email for a job I haven’t started yet hoping maybe someone’s remembered I exist.

    For what it’s worth, in the parent company’s eyes the office has already assumed regulatory responsibility for me and they’re on the hook for hundreds of dollars in licensing fees now that they’ve gotten me cleared to start. Any other new hire with my qualifications would face the same wait time from the parent company. Also, a former supervisor has an open position at her new company that she’s repeatedly said would be mine if I wanted it. (We work well together and it’s more money but she’s not my favorite person, so I’m content for it to be the backup plan.) I’m not worried about my new office backing out or what I’ll do if that happens, I’m just bummed out over how anticlimactic it’s all ended up being now that communication has trailed off.

    Reply ↓
    1. Fotze*

      This is so relatable. Honestly, it sucks to be starting something new and obviously a job is a big deal for you, but to them it’s just another “project” in the background.

      FWIW, your feelings are valid.

      Reply ↓
    2. Global Napper*

      I’m sorry this situation is feeling disappointing to you. It does sound very, very normal for hiring at this time of year, though. I really wouldn’t think anything of it. There are so many things delayed in December, and so many people who are on vacation over the holidays, that contacting someone who isn’t due to start until the 6th January just isn’t likely to be high on their priorities. The trailing off communication is very likely to just be a result of the time of year. If I was them, I’d be expecting to reach out sometime around December 30th. It’s not that I’d have forgotten about you, but there simply wouldn’t be much point before then.

      Reply ↓
      1. Elevator Elevator*

        Yeah, I stopped by the office during Thanksgiving week to sign some paperwork for the parent company and that’s when my contact let me know they were pushing to January. At the time, her intention was to take care of more nonessential onboarding during the delay period – she mentioned having us all sign a revised offer letter with the new date, getting me the employee handbook, stuff like that – but I’m sure push came to shove and all of it was stuff that can wait until I’m actually in the job. Just shifting my expectations from “there’s plenty they’re going to send me” to “the only thing I absolutely need is clarification on what time to arrive, and there’s no rush on that.”

        Reply ↓
    3. WellRed*

      It’s the holidays. What sort of communication were you seeking? I’m working for the first time in a week and frankly, I could say “working.”

      Reply ↓
      1. Ginger Cat Lady*

        Maybe confirmation of the start date and the time/location they should show up for onboarding? It’s the bare minimum, even for “working”, and I don’t think it’s too much to ask.

        Reply ↓
      2. Elevator Elevator*

        Around Thanksgiving my contact referenced a number of things she planned to send me ahead of my start date, and as recently as last week my impression from her emails was still that she intended to do that. Once we got to the Friday before Christmas without anything coming through, I stopped expecting any of that to happen, but it’s still an awkward adjustment in expectations since I need to keep logging into the work email just in case. It can feel weird without rising to the level of being a problem.

        Reply ↓
        1. WellRed*

          Just plan on reaching out Monday to confirm and get the ball rolling. I logged on this morning to see several people last minute decided to extend their holiday break. Next week will be slightly more normal for folks.

          Reply ↓
    4. Apex Mountain*

      I understand what you mean about the lack of momentum, and I’d probably feel the same.

      That said, the holiday thing is legitimate, everyone basically took two weeks off this year. As long as you’re still on track to start Jan 6 everything should be fine

      Reply ↓
    5. Lanam*

      I was in a similar boat and I wouldn’t sweat it or be disappointed. All projects enter either a dead zone or a HURRY HURRY zone in December and it reflects fiscal/budget and vacation circumstances way more than it does excitement about you joining their team. I would wait until 1/2 before checking in and ask about time/place to meet and whether they needed anything before your first day. I wouldn’t expect a response Tuesday as it’s likely most people have taken 12/25-1/1 off given the midweek federal holidays. Good luck!

      Reply ↓
  19. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

    Weird question but how do you do a lottery scratcher? Just scratch off everything or?? Never had one of these before.

    (This is a work related question – it was a Christmas present from my grand boss.)

    Reply ↓
    2. Lady Lessa*

      Wouldn’t the ticket give details, because I can see some that you do everything and some that you just choose a certain number to scratch off.

      Hope you win big.

      Reply ↓
    3. Synaptically Unique*

      You scratch off the main numbers or symbols (usually there’s a “winning” set and then your numbers that you need to match to them to win) and usually don’t mess with the prize section unless you have a winning number/symbol. When you take it in to redeem any winners, you scratch off the bar code at the side or bottom.

      Reply ↓
  20. CTT*

    My form does annual security training and is making a video from our malpractice carrier a required portion of it, which in theory is great, but in practice it’s a 90 minute video and they definitely made the associates watch this same one last year! And it’s all “here are the very simple ways you can mess up and get sued.” It’s like a terrible, anxiety-inducing Groundhog Day.

    Reply ↓
    1. Pam Adams*

      My trainings are on.my computer. I can let them run while doing other things, paying just enough attention to answer the quiz questions.

      Reply ↓
      2. fhqwhgads*

        Our training software automatically pauses the video if we click on anything else. I kept accidentally pausing it because a slack or email would pop up and my instinct was to clear the notification. I get they reallllllly wanted to be sure we’re paying attention, but it was so unintuitive I kept being confused why it stopped and then realize, oh right, I clicked.

        Reply ↓
    2. Qwerty*

      I don’t get why it is anxiety inducing? These are pretty normal. Reusing the same video makes it more likely that you’ll remember what they say. If you are nervous about making one of these mistakes, make sure to give the video your full attention rather than multi-tasking. Maybe try to look at the bright side that you get to watch this video at your convenience (and possibly from the comfort of your couch) rather than the old school way where we used to all go to the big in-person training seminar.

      Reply ↓
      1. anotherfan*

        Our security videos also repeat, so much that we all know the characters “names” and the situations and have begun referencing them to each other in general conversation. I wouldn’t sweat the duplication, it’s just a ‘thing’ the company does for whatever reason. The point is the information gets before your eyes, from my take.

        Reply ↓
      2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        They aren’t nervous about making these mistakes until the video yells at them about how REMEMBER IF YOU DO THIS IT WILL COST US MONEY. That’s anxiety inducing for some people. It does not mean they are not good at their job.

        Reply ↓
      3. CTT*

        The video is mostly addressing malpractice situations that would be difficult for me to be in given they are very specific to a type of law I don’t practice, but I’m still finding a way to be anxious about them.

        Reply ↓
    3. I DK*

      Commiserations! We have the same confidential info training every year – I yawn just thinking about it – and I ace the quiz every time without listening to the training. But it is an important part of the job. At least they let us opt out of the Active Shooter training if it would be upsetting.

      Reply ↓
    4. Tierrainney*

      oh yes, the annual video training. Over and over and over. All I can say is with most of them, if you have any common sense at all, you aren’t going to do the things.

      since you are here at Ask a Manager, I presume you have some common sense :)

      so just listen as if you are an anthropologist. here are the things that others do, but not me because I have common sense.

      Reply ↓
    5. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      Not everyone remembers the information from the previous time the training was done. Some folks don’t pay attention at all.

      I know it sounds like a pain, but i’ve seen how easy it is to violate security/compliance with a slip of the tongue or a careless piece of paper left out for anyone, but anyone, to see. if some stickler didn’t call it out, it could’ve been a serious issue.

      sometimes you do need a sledgehammer.

      Reply ↓
      1. CTT*

        I totally get that, but I what I’m finding odd is that it’s the same video I saw 18 months rather than an update that incorporates new information/examples. Maybe I’m mentally pushing back because usually watching a training more than a year old in the legal field is a no-go because it means it’s not eligible for CLE credits and/or could be out of date.

        Reply ↓
        1. Cedrus Libani*

          If the training is important, someone at the company will find the time, energy, and money to keep it up-to-date. If it’s a box-ticking exercise, then…nope.

          My work site has regulated laboratory facilities, so as part of our audit process, I have to take at least one safety course every year…but I don’t do lab work. So, the ~50% of us who do normal office work in a building that also has lab space are obliged to sit through the same “electrical hazards” training video every single year. We do use electricity, after all. Our corporate overlords will keep running this course as-is until someone makes them stop, because it checks the box and that’s all they need it for.

          In contrast, the same company sent me to intellectual property training. Emphasis on “sent”. On-site, with live trainers. Every new R&D hire does this course. During this program, we were told cautionary tales of loose-lipped nerds who created some rather expensive messes by revealing proprietary information. Reading between the lines, it was pretty clear why this training existed! The company didn’t want any more of these incidents. So, they cared about delivering high-quality training, even though it plainly cost a lot more than making a video and running it year after year, because they were hoping it would prevent even more expensive mistakes.

          Reply ↓
        2. Jaydee*

          As long as it has a section on not using generative AI to write your pleadings and briefs for you, it’s probably pretty up-to-date. Shady trust accounting practices, poorly written engagement letters (or no engagement letters), missing deadlines, ignoring conflicts of interest, failing to notify clients of things, having impermissible relationships of a financial or sexual nature with clients – those are the types of malpractice that attorneys just keep on committing, year after year. Unless there’s some really novel issue that has come up in your state recently, it’s all just variations on a theme.

          Reply ↓
        3. Roland*

          There really aren’t that many changes in what the average person needs to do security-wise, because it’s mostly “be credulous”. Technological advancements might matter for IT and security professionals who are in charge of security where they work, but for the average worker, nothing has qualitatively changed in the past 2 years .

          Reply ↓
    6. I Have RBF*

      I am so over training videos. I watch them in silent mode if I can.

      The worst thing is, I am working with two different companies under my parent company, so I have to do something like 10 to 14 trainings a year for each company! (I am considered a contractor at the second company.)

      Reply ↓
  21. Fotze*

    So I am working a newish job. The union contract (like 90% of them) is absolute GARBAGE…so I get a miserly 5 days off a year, and only 60 hours sick. I am not allowed UPTO.

    But, we do get federal holidays off, which I still think is barge because I travel internationally once a year and I like to be gone for 2-4 weeks at a time. Nickel and diming my days off is SO frustrating.

    Because we were profitable last year, my boss needed to spread the profit somewhere, so among other things for out members, she gave us each our birthday off next year. (my birthday is a sunday, so I get monday off).

    I was pissed because it doesn’t help me cheat a week for extra time. I’m square between Columbus day and Veterans day, and it SUCKS.

    But bless my sister. She said “at least our birthday isn’t Leap Day”

    I about DIED the infamous AAM leap day birthday letter is a CLASSIC

    Reply ↓
    1. Confused by your frustration*

      You took the job knowing the limits on vacation and PTO and how they didn’t match your preference for long vacations.

      Why?

      Reply ↓
      1. Not the original poster*

        This wasn’t my comment, but sometimes you need a job in order to support yourself and have to take what’s there even if it’s not your ideal? I can think of plenty of reasons why someone wouldn’t be able to afford to be picky about finding employment!

        Reply ↓
      2. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

        Confused by your fake confusion – people need shelter and food. Sometimes there are issues with a new job even if you mostly like the new job.

        OP, I hear your frustration. That stingy PTO does suck. Only 5 days off is terrible.

        Reply ↓
        1. Apex Mountain*

          Of course sometimes people need any job, but it’s a legitimate question since the entirety of the post was about the paltry PTO. The tone of the post makes it seem like this is pretty bad for Fotze, so why not explore all options

          Reply ↓
  22. TargetControlSystem*

    What part time work do you have / have done that is relatively low barrier to entry, gets you out in the community, not volunteer? And preferably not sales or health related?

    I’m mining for ideas as a mid/senior level professional in an office environment fully remote that pays well but I need to get out more. I already have hobbies and I volunteer, but I’d like to get a job as I downsize my hours as I get closer to retirement. I keep (half) joking that I’m going to be a barista because I can’t bring that work home with me. My friend in a similar boat works as a receptionist in a community centre. That sounds kinda fun. I don’t care about what it pays and am willing to work hours that students typically could not. Thanks!

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      Front desk at a gym? Or weekend reception at a car dealer? I personally enjoyed my part time work at Borders and hen I did that but retail isn’t for everyone.

      Reply ↓
      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Likewise, when I was second-jobbing around my 9-5 I enjoyed part-time cashiering at Target (and also enjoyed the employee discount).

        Reply ↓
    2. That Library Lady*

      Part-time job at your local library? You’d be involved with your community, plus we like having people who are willing to work nights/weekends/hours that most people can’t work or don’t want to.

      Reply ↓
    3. HiddenT*

      A small local retail store with products you enjoy? Specialty food stores, wine stores, yarn stores, clothing stores, etc? Not a big box store where they don’t give a crap about their workers, but something owned by a local.

      I have a friend who works at a specialty food store part-time (she’s a mom so it works with her kid’s school schedule) and loves talking about their specialized products.

      Reply ↓
      2. Don’t make me come over there*

        Seconding this! I cashiered at a plant and garden store during my late-40’s “gap year”. The pay was crap, but I was reminded that I kind of enjoy small talk, and I got to know some regulars, and I can now keep a houseplant alive for more than a couple months from what I learned from my coworkers.

        Reply ↓
        1. WestsideStory*

          If you are interested in plants, retail at a garden center is fun, a lot of it is outdoors. I’ve done this three times in between major jobs, still fondly remember the December I sold Christmas trees! Hiring usually starts in March, but job postings start up in January.

          Reply ↓
    4. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      My MIL tried several PT gigs after she retired. She worked digitizing hand written index cards for a museum, at an annual Christmas/indoor wonderland/skating place, and as a docent at a historical house with grounds.

      She ended up liking the house the best because they make sure to rotate the staff so they all get time inside and outside each day. She meets tons of people and has been there 5 years now.

      Reply ↓
    6. Snow Angels in the Zen Garden*

      This sounds ideal for retail. It’s typically not enough hours to be someone’s only job, but my store would love to have more people who only want to work a couple of evening or weekend shifts. There are only a couple of people we can each ask to cover a shift if we’re sick or something comes up.

      Reply ↓
      1. fhqwhgads*

        They said not volunteer. Ushering for non-profit theaters is generally volunteer or union work, not the type of thing the OP was asking about.

        Reply ↓
    8. Older Boomer, yet still working*

      Being a hop-on hop-off bus guide for a riverboat cruise (I don’t drive the bus – just provide narration!) Not bad hourly pay, plus pretty good tips! Walking tours are fun also but the tips aren’t as good.

      Reply ↓
    9. Seashell*

      I recently saw that my town was looking for crossing guards. It’s not tons of hours, and presumably they’re following a school schedule, so plenty of vacation time.

      Similarly, working in a school office or cafeteria would keep you on or close to a school calendar, so you’d have time for travel or relaxation if you wanted it.

      Reply ↓
  23. Lauren*

    In the latest update on my new awful manager, “Bob”…

    I submitted an expense report 2 weeks ago, and flagged it for him that he needed to approve it, which he acknowledged. He still hadn’t approved it, so this past Monday, I flagged it for him again and asked him if he could approve when he had a chance. He acknowledged it, and said that he was still waiting for his account to be set up in the expense report platform we use and he’d confirm it by EOY. Bob’s boss is out of office until January, and yesterday both the HR people who handle it were on vacation. (I’m currently on PTO today).

    I’m antsy because this man has repeatedly ignored questions directed towards him from my other teammate and me, and he’s so passive I don’t see him actively reaching out to HR or whoever for him to get access to the platform. I think he’s also dragging his feet on reaching out to whoever to get set up because a couple weeks ago I had an issue with my account within the same expense report platform, and HR fixed it within a few hours. Our HR is usually responsive and quick with things like this.

    Yesterday I pinged him on Slack and his response was “was advised they’ll be returning EOY. Rest assured I’ll make sure this is done for you”.

    The only working days next week are Monday and Tuesday (New Years Eve). What should I do? If I don’t hear of an update by Monday afternoon, should I drop a message in the Slack IT chat room? “hey [HR names], I need to get an expense report approved, but my manager [Bob] doesn’t have an account set up (flagging @[Bob’s boss and Bob’s boss’s boss)” -or- should I message Bob’s boss’s boss “hey @Bob’s boss’s boss, I need an expense report to be approved by Bob, but he doesn’t have the account set up”.

    I need to tread carefully, but I don’t know what do to!

    Reply ↓
    1. Friday Person*

      Is there any blowback on you personally if the approval is late? If not, given that you’ve already pinged him three times, I’d try to set it aside and see if he gets it taken care of, and if not, just let it be Bob’s problem and revisit as needed after the deadline passes.

      Reply ↓
        1. Rick Tq*

          You finance Dept will be pissed at Bob when they have to adjust the books for 2024 after the fact to reflect your unpaid expenses when they are finally approved.

          Reply ↓
            1. Confused by your frustration*

              You have to ask your payroll department what the cutoff is for reimbursements at your company. Having a December expense reimbursed in January shouldn’t be a big deal, just annoying they have to do it because Bob couldn’t be troubled to approve it.

              If your expenses were incurred in December (not just reported) I’d expect it to be reimbursed because you claimed it in a timely manner. Bob’s failure to approve it doesn’t change that it (appears) to be reported correctly.

              My employer is fairly lax about expense reporting but they will refuse to reimburse expenses that are too old.

              Reply ↓
              1. WestsideStory*

                Yes, ask and flag that Bob is dragging his heels. Companies like to tidy up at years end and this may annoy them to the point that they press him.
                It’s a real dick move to hold back on approving expenses. If this is a recurring issue, consider asking for advances against expenses.

                Reply ↓
            1. Kay*

              I’ve never personally heard of a company requiring expenses be approved same year, especially if they are recent ones so unless you have some reason to think your company would deny these expenses I wouldn’t be worrying about it too much. For bookkeeping purposes it is nice to have things on the books same year, but that is not always possible and most companies know how to deal with this.

              You can always email your accounting department for clarification but I wouldn’t be making an issue out of this personally, although your mileage may vary.

              Reply ↓
            2. Names are Hard*

              I’ve worked in finance in multiple places and I can’t imagine an expense being denied because it wasn’t approved by the end of the year. Yes, they want all of the expense in the right year, but they’ll just accrue it to the books to do that.

              Reply ↓
        3. RetiredAcademicLibrarian*

          I would go up the chain of command to the first person who isn’t out of the office. Explain the expense report needs to be signed off before the end of the year and your supervisor “Bob” doesn’t have the necessary permissions to sign off the paperwork.

          Reply ↓
            1. Rick Tq*

              You should talk to them today if possible. If not, then Monday morning early so they have a day and a half to resolve the issue. Waiting longer just makes them scramble to get the approval done and makes it that much more likely it won’t be complete until January.

              Reply ↓
    3. Not A Manager*

      I’d reach out to HR as soon as they are back, and inquire blandly. Bob needs to sign off on your expenses, he’s waiting for access to the platform, and you want to know what happens if this is not fully sorted by year’s end.

      Reply ↓
    4. fhqwhgads*

      Ugh they suck. There should be an automated thing that nags the approvers if a thing isn’t approved in a certain amount of time. If my boss doesn’t approve within a week of me submitting, the system pings him and the three other reviewers up the chain. It is RARE for it to not be approved by someone within an hour of that.
      He’s being really flippant about letting you float money to the company which does not reflect well on him at all.
      I wouldn’t go into detail with HR or IT about what Bob said before/the why he didn’t. But I would probably lay out the problem in a “hey what’s the protocol for resolving this” way. Use an “of course we don’t want to delay this” tone but also an “of course I am trying to use proper channels” tone.

      Reply ↓
  24. Anax*

    Annual performance reviews are coming, and I’m actually… kind of excited???

    I’ve always been petrified of performance reviews, whether because of my own fear of authority, or because I was concerned that my manager had expectations of me which I would only be hearing about now, or because I was struggling with burnout and not completely happy with my own performance.

    I know I’m doing well at my new job – I’ve been here since May, and we have objective metrics to show I’m one of the most productive analysts (like, top 5 out of 100), and I’m often praised by higher-ups. I trust my team lead to let me know if they see areas for improvement, so I doubt there will be any big surprises.

    Is this what performance reviews are supposed to feel like? It feels so strange not to be consumed with anxiety about it; I’m looking forward to seeing what feedback I receive, and if there are any merit increases or promotion opportunities available. Maybe I’ll get new responsibilities, which would be fun!

    Reply ↓
    1. Leo the lion*

      Here on AAM I think we see the worst of work. Unless there’s an update, it’s usually something that isn’t going right.
      However, work can be a positive place! I’m happy you’ve been doing well. In my best Alison voice:
      Any reasonable manager is going to reward good employees. A performance evaluation is a to do that. The only way I’d be worried is if they talk the talk, but all you get is more responsibilities, or nothing but faint praise. Remember a good employee deserves more! I hope you have a great eval and get plenty of rewards.

      Reply ↓
      1. Anax*

        Thank you; fingers crossed! It’s been really nice, especially after some really bad experiences before this.

        My manager may have slightly limited power to make merit increases happen in the short term – I’m a term employee, and there’s some red tape involved. But… well, I’m hopeful! It’s looking reasonably likely that this will turn into a permanent gig, and even a small title bump would really make my budget easier to balance – the *one* rough part of this job is that it’s not paid as well as I would like.

        (Worst case, I have at least two more years on this project and a good reference, but… gosh, fingers crossed. A promotion would really make the budget easier to balance.)

        Reply ↓
    2. Qwerty*

      On a good year, yes! Congrats!

      Update your resume while you are feeling this good! I find the best time to write a resume is when you like your job and are proud of your accomplishments. I’m guessing you haven’t touched it since you got hired, so update it soon and keep a reminder to go in every 6-12months.

      The annual performance review should really just be a summary of the previous check ins throughout the year. The problem is most places don’t have those other ones, or the weekly 1x1s never zoom out to the big picture goals and objectives. Glad you have a lead who makes you feel supported!

      Reply ↓
      1. Anax*

        Thank you! Gosh, it’s been such a relief.

        You’re right about the resume, though I’m tempted to put it off a few more months. This job has been great, but my last couple were… rough, and the idea of updating my resume brings all that stress crashing back. I really *should*, though.

        I’ve had check-ins at other jobs, but working in IT, it’s really common for your direct manager to have come up from the ranks – and my previous managers have acted much more like peers than managers. That can be positive in some ways, but they’ve always really hesitated to give strong feedback or lay out expectations, which I think has been the cause of my anxiety. I’d rather have clear guidelines and priorities, not wonder whether I’m reading your mind correctly!

        Changing industries has really suited me, and a slightly more hierarchical structure has too – I’m adjacent to academic research now, and my team lead actually *wants* to run projects; she didn’t just draw the short straw for “guy who goes to meetings”.

        Reply ↓
    3. allathian*

      That’s what it should feel like with a great manager and in an organizational culture that rewards performance.

      I work for the government in Finland, and it’s very hard to get merit raises unless you get promoted out of your current competence class.

      I had my first performance review with my current manager just before Christmas. I knew going in that I wasn’t getting a raise, mainly because there’sno budget for one. I scored at least a “meets expectations +” on everything, as I have done for the last few years, and I asked her if there was anything I could do to get an exceeds expectations. She told me that she has a stretch project in mind for me next year. If that goes well, next year might be a different story.

      Reply ↓
  25. Banana Pyjamas*

    I accidentally nested this in another thread. Do we think retail workers of years past hated Bing Crosby as much as modern retail workers hate Michael Buble? I noticed Bing was “the official voice of the Decca Christmas catalog”, and it got me wondering.

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      I’m not so sure retail workers of the past had Christmas music playing overhead all day? My own personal expert with this, the year Aretha, usually so perfect, so fabulous, so Queen! Came out with a Christmas album. It was not good and we had to listen to it constantly because we were also selling it.

      Reply ↓
      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        I guess I just assumed based on older Christmas movies. It’s interesting to think it may not have been common. I must now go on an Aretha Christmas rabbit hole.

        Reply ↓
    2. Busy Middle Manager*

      Probably but I’m wondering if stores curating a short list of horrible songs and replaying them is a newer trend? I worked retail and restaurants in the 90s and they just played the radio. And before iheart bought every station, radios used to have a way, way bigger assortment of songs.

      It wasn’t until my holiday job in 2009 that I started getting bombarded with the same milque toast songs again and again, from artists who are famous, yet you don’t know anyone who actually listens to them or goes to their concerts.

      Reply ↓
      1. Banana Pyjamas*

        Yes, I hear you on selection. I was listening to a song called Poppa Santa Clause, which I heard once several years ago on a family owned radio station and haven’t heard since unless I searched it out.

        Reply ↓
      2. JSPA*

        Some ruling made it illegal to play the radio in commercial spaces without paying royalties. Don’t remember the details or year. plenty of tiny local places still do, but chains generally respect the ban.

        Reply ↓
    3. Barb*

      I worked retail (small convenience store) 1978-83 and we definitely had music all year, changed to holiday music November-December

      Mostly wordless covers
      Awful all year

      Reply ↓
  26. crunchy numbers*

    Any accountants/CPAs here? I’m considering a career switch and going back to school for a Masters in Acccounting. I have a previous bachelors in Computer Science and work as a software engineer but don’t think I’ll last much longer. I actually first got interested in Computer Science because I’d love to create formulas in Microsoft Excel and work with numbers.

    Would you say I’m misunderstanding the career pathway? For me, I’d like to switch because accounting seems more repetitive and requires good observation skills without having the upskill as often. It also seems there’s less blatant ageism and better job security than tech in exchange for slightly lower pay. To be honest, I think I’ll be working until I die so I’m OK with the lower pay as long as I hit six figures within 3-5 years of working (I live in an expensive city). My accounting friends have warned me about the horror of public accounting but I’m mentally prepared to sacrifice 2-3 years and then move onto greener pastures.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Only thing that I’m hesitating on is I’m turning 30 soon and feel like I’ll need to go through school + CPA exams while also trying to get an internship. Will companies still be interested in hiring a mid-30s intern?

    Reply ↓
    1. PrincessFluffy*

      I was 40 when I went back to school to get another BS in accounting with the goal of being a Financial Analyst so 30 seems young to me. I didn’t need an internship though and I didn’t plan to go into public accounting. I ended up transferring to the finance department in my current company. Many of my previous credits in the other business degree transferred so I only had to take the accounting classes and the tech classes and then study for the CMA test (instead of CPA). Do you need a masters? I’ve seen a lot of jobs for people who understand technology and information systems along with finance/accounting. That could be a really good combo.

      Reply ↓
      1. crunchy numbers*

        I was thinking of getting a masters since I’m seeing a lot of online masters programs for post-bacc students from different degrees. Plus I thought it might be nice if I ever go into government work since I’d be in a higher pay scale.

        Would you mind explaining more of your career pathway once you got your accounting degree? I’m still trying to familiarize myself with finance and accounting, so I didn’t know about the CMA test!

        Reply ↓
        1. PrincessFluffy*

          I was bored in my project coordinator role but really enjoyed the budget work so I talked to people in the finance department where I worked to figure out what it would take to do more of the budgeting and forecasting work. Someone there recommended the CMA test and when I went back to school I had an instructor also really push the CMA. Once I graduated a job happened to open up doing exactly what I wanted to do. I applied and got it. That was 9ish years ago. I love the analysis, helping people understand their budget and finding creative ways to manage the limited funds they have along with grant budgets. I don’t like the accounting work. I find that pretty boring.
          As I’ve progressed in this job, I’ve found that one of the skills I’ve had to develop is understanding how the accounting, budgeting and forecasting information systems work. IT understand the backend but not necessarily how to make it work most efficiently for our needs. That’s the skill that I think will be more and more in demand. Accounting can be automated to some extent. Understanding what the numbers mean and using that information to plan and analyzing the data are the skills that are harder to replicate with AI and machine learning.

          Reply ↓
        2. Pam Adams*

          My campus’ Master of Science in Accountancy program has tracks for people who got undergraduate accounting degrees and for those with other bachelor’s degrees.

          Reply ↓
    2. Carys, Lady of Weeds*

      I am not an accountant, but I was married to one. My ex-husband went back to school in his early thirties and got a great auditing (not tax) internship and then job at a top ten firm during/after his masters, and he is still working on his CPA.

      The only thing I would caution you on is the hours – there is the busy season at the beginning of the year, which is pretty much January through April, and another one in August-September. 80+ hour work weeks are not for the faint of heart. (His work schedule played a role in why we’re now divorced. Not a huge role, but they sure didn’t help with all the other issues.)

      Reply ↓
      1. crunchy numbers*

        Wow that’s a crazy amount of hours, I thought that wasn’t sure common outside of public accounting. Thank you for the heads up about it. I would like to start planning for a family but this does give me some pause…

        Reply ↓
    3. Annabelle Lee*

      CPA here. If you are interested at all in the CPA credential, check their requirements up front and ask the program you enroll in about their CPA track.
      As for hiring, companies in my area (Midwest) are gasping for accountants.

      Reply ↓
      1. crunchy numbers*

        Do you still work in accounting or have you moved onto other finance positions? Also you I’m leaning towards the CPA licensing but am trying to understand alternative pathways as well. If you have any recommendations please let me know!

        Reply ↓
    4. Names are Hard*

      Some of those MACC programs only admit you if you already have a BS in Acc. I’m sure that’s not all of them, but some. Also, do you want to be a CPA/work in public? I’ve worked in a few finance departments (mostly in payroll, but now as a Sr Staff Accountant) and no one had a CPA, not even our controller or CFO. Staff accountant pay can really vary, as can the duties, so it might not pay enough fast enough. However, I do live in a low cost of living area so you might find the pay acceptable. Working in industry IMO tends to have a better work/life balance. None of the accountants I’ve worked with over the years put in more than 45-ish hours and that includes during audits and EOY.

      Also, a few colleges here offer an accounting certificate. That might help you get your feet in the door if you don’t end up wanting to go the MS/CPA route.

      Reply ↓
    5. Student*

      There is a huge demand for accountants of all kinds. With your background in CS, you might look into accounting information systems and whether you actually need a CPA.

      I am a middle age career change student in accounting with plans to work in government because I don’t want the hours that come with public accounting. A CPA or masters is not required in government in my state but the pay starts out really low even in a HCOL area.

      My impression, from info sessions I’ve attended, is that the larger firms are more focused on young students following a traditional pathway, but regional firms are more open to career changers and re-entry students. With the pipeline issues, ultimately what matters most to firms is if you are CPA-eligible. Often firms will pay for your CPA, but, as others mentioned, the hours are insane.

      Networking is huge in accounting. One career change manager at a firm said she did the masters program partly because of the on campus professional organizations. So look into what’s offered at the schools you’re considering and the local/state professional organizations. Our state society has free membership for students.

      I’m not really familiar with data analysis but it might be another option for you with a CS background if you’re interested in crunching numbers.

      Reply ↓
  27. Izzy Legal*

    I know this is kind of a morally grey area…

    I’m about to be in the position of hiring a manager on my team (I’m a senior manager). I joined this team six months ago, and came to discover it’s incredibly toxic and disorganized. I am actively interviewing, so I’m about to leave too. But what can I say to potential candidates in the interview to warn them without explicitly saying something? So far I have “fast-paced environment,” “lots of recent changes on the team,” and “the tech stack is messy.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Kay*

      Ask them lots of “tell me about a time when”, “how have you dealt with X” type questions. You don’t give many examples but I would ask things like “How do you approach solving performance issues on a team with differing personalities?”, “Do you prefer a highly organized workplace or are you able to work with lots of moving pieces? If you like organization, how do you go about creating that in a team?”, “Tell me about a time when you managed difficult personalities and how you handled that”, “Do you work well under pressure?”- basically, ask all those red flag questions we see people writing in about! :-)

      Reply ↓
    2. Qwerty*

      Been there, much sympathy.

      I try to be as transparent as possible without saying anything negative about the company. I’m usually the first round interview (after recruiter screen), both when I was a manager or just a senior team member helping out.

      I’m a pretty open person, so I tell candidates that my goal is for them to have a picture of what it would look to fill the role so I’ll be telling them both the positives and the challenges. It probably helped that I’ve usually been at startups for this so it wasn’t awful to admit when we were fueled by chaos. Tell them why the tech stack is messy – is it because the org shifts direction a lot (common if the product is finding its footing) and there isn’t time to make things scalable? Or is it because the team has a low quality threshold? Will the candidate be able to impact and improve the tech or are there devs gatekeeping the architecture decisions?

      Have other people left the team recently? You obviously can’t say that you are leaving, but can you say that newer hires tend to stay [1yr, 1.5yrs, 2yrs, etc]?

      Reply ↓
    3. Cinnamon Rolly*

      I follow this one company and they have a role that I’ve seen posted multiple times over the past few years which has “comfortable with ambiguity” as a requirement. It’s a role that shouldn’t be too ambiguous so in my mind that is a red flag.

      Reply ↓
      1. Paint N Drip*

        I think it’s probably time to turn that ‘job description speak’ back to the applicant during the interview discussions, with purpose – what clear as mud euphemisms make sense to warn applicants away from what you’re seeing? I agree with Kay’s perspective.

        Reply ↓
    4. PP*

      I wouldn’t try to do any warning; after all you are still employed there and are a manager.
      I would focus on behavioral questions on what is needed for a person to (best) succeed in the role and the company (given what it is).

      Reply ↓
  28. Elle Woods*

    A couple of months ago, I asked if I should take part in an exit interview with a group where I volunteered for nearly two decades. Thank you to those who encouraged me to take the meeting with the executive director and give my feedback. The meeting went OK. The ED wasn’t fully aware of just how many decisions the outreach group leader (OGL) was making unilaterally–or how significant the decisions were–but didn’t fully object to how she was doing things. I’m glad I shared my observations with the ED.

    Reply ↓
  29. Support finding work*

    I’m a volunteer that assists a refugee family here in the U.S. and am trying to help the husband find work. He has beginner level English and has limited education – so we are looking for jobs like factory/warehouse work, dishwashing, cleaning, etc and I am getting so discouraged. We have gone in person to restaurants and hotels, and most have told us to apply online. When we apply online it seems like we are sending the application into a black hole. Finally got an interview for a dishwasher position earlier this week, and the place did not seem well suited for working with someone who is still learning English and we have not heard back yet. He’s had success in the past when it’s been jobs through temp agencies recruiting for factory work where you can apply in person, but when I look online I can’t find any info on where to go in person – just submitting applications online which seems to go nowhere.

    I realize this may not be the right audience – but does anyone have any suggestions on finding employment in this situation? Or being able to find temp agencies for manufacturing work where you can apply in person? Please no comments on how he needs to learn English – he knows, I know, we all know but it takes time and is also not easy when you need to work lots of hours at minimum wage to support your family.

    Reply ↓
    1. ruthling*

      is there some way you and/or he can connect with people from his same background and language? They may have recommendations or job leads that aren’t obvious to everyone. Some communities are more organized about it than others, but an unofficial network seems likely.

      Reply ↓
      1. Ashley*

        And this should help with the language barrier.
        Also is construction a possibility? Online applications are a little less common.

        Reply ↓
      2. Support Finding Work*

        Thank you – This is a very thoughtful answer, and unfortunately we’ve already tried that route unsuccessfully (at least so far). Their community is small in the area and I’ve asked if his friends can help but sounds like most of them work in restaurants, gas stations, etc with a limited number of positions and no openings.

        Reply ↓
    2. Kay*

      You say you are a volunteer – does the organization you work for have any business connections or interest in building them? I ask because I used to do work with an organization that sounds similar to yours and they worked to build some higher level connections to help with these situations. It isn’t immediate obviously, but it was very helpful. Are there perhaps any organizations that do this kind of work you could partner with?

      I’m sure you are already aware of the Uber/Instacart type options. Perhaps landscaping/construction? Best of luck!

      Reply ↓
      1. Support Finding Work*

        Thank you! The organization I volunteer for does have a person who focuses on employment and is trying to build a network and pipeline for employment. Usually I would not be so involved, but at the moment it seems the pipeline is a bit dry so I’ve been trying to help as well on the ground. I tried reaching out to his resettlement organization a couple of times and never got a response.

        He’s been doing DoorDash but has not had a positive experience and has not made a lot to offset time and gas costs. He’s signed up for Amazon Flex and is waiting so that could be an option.

        Reply ↓
    3. FricketyFrack*

      I don’t know where you’re located, but in CO, we have Workforce Centers run by the state Dept of Labor. Anyone receiving unemployment has to register with them, but they also provide free services to anyone else looking for work. If your state has something similar, they might be able to give some guidance.

      Reply ↓
      1. Support Finding Work*

        This is a good idea. We do have those here, and I had signed him up earlier but haven’t looked at it in the past several weeks so I should probably try to revisit this and maybe see if they can more actively help.

        Reply ↓
      1. Support Finding Work*

        So I am even less familiar with construction jobs. I guess I assumed one might need some level of certification/training?

        Reply ↓
        1. Support Finding Work*

          Sorry – I should have said he did construction before moving to the U.S. – so this is something I should look into. I’m not sure what kind of licensing/requirements there where he did construction, I’m assuming any requirements were much looser than here. He hasn’t done any construction work since he moved to the U.S.

          Reply ↓
    5. Joyful and Triumphant*

      My previous non-profit, worked through a refugee assistance program like yours and we hired a Syrian, non-english speaking truck driver. Google Translate and their green card was all they needed. They’d been with us for 2 years and are an awesome asset to the organization. They drove large trucks/semi’s in Syria before moving to the U.S. so that helped.

      What did this person do in their previous country that could be applicable here barring licensing and language requirements?

      Reply ↓
      1. Support Finding Work*

        That is so awesome! I really do think that even with the language barrier, he could do many different kinds of jobs here but it really depends a lot on the mindset of the company and having some patience in communications. I have found many people will speak LOUDLY rather than slowly and simply when trying to communicate and assume if he doesn’t understand the first time, he doesn’t understand at all.

        He previously did construction, so maybe based on other comments that is something I should explore more actively.

        Reply ↓
    6. Paint N Drip*

      Are there any temp agencies physically in your area? I live in a small city but we have several – there is one company that is more white-collar, and another more blue-collar/labor agency (TrueBlue or PeopleReady) – you could walk in their office, and have a job for the AM. Also, there are companies who act as ‘temp’ permanently that you may be able to identify locally – my brother-in-law worked for one, they provided all the labor to run the kitchens for the hospital chain so he worked AT the hospital but FOR this other company.

      You might have more luck working with smaller businesses where they don’t have the online infrastructure and you can maybe appeal to them directly – laundries, small construction or landscaping companies, construction warehouses (plumbing, electrical, etc.), family-owned restaurant, small manufacturing biz, etc. I wonder how reasonable it is to approach this situation as if he is a freelancer – could you contact small businesses directly and ask if they need landscaping/cleaning services?

      Good luck! Applying for a skilled job as an English-speaker is challenging enough, you guys are doing this on hard mode – thanks for your generous assistance, I’m sure you’re impacting that family in ways they cannot even express

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        We have an agency here called Labor Ready for this type of work. Or look through the yellow pages (online I guess) for local temp agencies. They will say what sorts of work they find placements for.

        Reply ↓
        1. WellRed*

          And don’t rule out reaching out to your local community via FB or Next Door or similar and share what you’ve posted here.

          Reply ↓
          1. Support Finding Work*

            I’m not on FB (moved off of it for my mental health) and while I do use NextDoor, I’m a bit reluctant to post there because quite honestly despite living in a more liberal area of our state I have found a lot of responses on it (at least in my area) to be quite racist/classist. When I’ve seen other people post trying to help others find work, a lot of the general responses have been that the person should learn English. So not super helpful.

            I really appreciate all of the thoughtful responses I have received here. Thank you everyone so much!

            Reply ↓
      2. Banana Pyjamas*

        In my limited second-hand experience, you actually might need to go further afield to get a local job. My mom works in an industrial development at one of the largest inland ports in North America. The temps are usually hired from companies in Joliet 15 miles away or Chicago 50+ miles away. Most of the people who get hired in directly know someone, usually multiple people, in the factory.

        Reply ↓
      3. Support Finding Work*

        Thank you! I’ve tried to look online at some temp agencies and their open positions. What I found seemed to encourage applying online – for example, one position was local, but it seemed like the temp agency location was over an hour away. We applied online and never heard back. I’ll see if I can do some different online searches to find locations of temp agencies in the area and see what they might have.

        Have tried approaching some smaller businesses, no luck so far.

        Reply ↓
        1. Banana Pyjamas*

          I think our wires crossed! It’s counter-intuitive, but you may need to look at temp agencies outside of your locale to get a local placement.

          Reply ↓
    7. ABC123*

      Depending on the state you are in (large ‘blue’ states like NY, NJ, MA, CA may be the best. There may be a state office to assist. If you search immigrant/refugee assistance you may get results

      Also not sure if it is happening here but I know online applications don’t always capture the nuance of situations. For example, if they are checking “Yes” to the question regarding requiring immigration sponsorship some companies will reject that automatically as they don’t want to deal with lawyers.

      Reply ↓
      1. WellRed*

        Oh if they have to do this, I’m not surprised he’s getting no luck. Do they really need sponsorships for say, dishwasher positions? (Sorry if that sounds naive, it just did not occur to me.)

        Reply ↓
        1. ABC123*

          That I don’t know. I’ve heard of them asking that for tech careers. I would think a large business may have only one application no matter the position

          You may also want to check these out if you are running into pushback from employers who may not understand:

          https://www.uscis.gov/i-9-central/form-i-9-resources/handbook-for-employers-m-274/70-evidence-of-employment-authorization-for-certain-categories/73-refugees-and-asylees

          https://www.justice.gov/crt/page/file/1132391/dl#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20refugees%20and%20asylees,extension%20and%20are%20still%20valid.

          Reply ↓
    8. WestsideStory*

      If you are in the sunbelt, perhaps landscaping/landscape maintenance? If he has a construction background that would be a plus.

      Reply ↓
    9. Bike Walk Barb*

      Awesome that you’re helping them! I searched for what kinds of resources I’d find in my state if I were doing the same thing and found this HHS website with links to state and local organizations https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/map/find-resources-and-contacts-your-state. You may have already found this and relevant sites in your state–sharing in case you haven’t. Your state government may have an office dedicated to this exact need.

      What size population base/town/region are you looking in? That will affect what’s available. I think of janitorial/cleaning services that do tough locations at tough times, like cleaning doctor’s offices at night. Unfortunately it’s going to be the tough and dirty jobs that are hard to fill that will be the most open.

      Reply ↓
    10. M2*

      Like someone else said look at non profits in your area. Look at local small companies that are local. Grocery store ? Local laundromat? Somewhere that needs drivers? Also job trainings or something similar that might be state or non profit funded.

      International rescue committee has great work inside and outside the US for refugees. They may have an office in your state that would help. Or another local resettlement agency.

      If you attend a church or school ask around and see if anyone has roles that might be a good fit.

      Talent beyond boundaries https://www.talentbeyondboundaries.org/

      And upworldly good https://www.upwardlyglobal.org/ might also
      Help/ be a good resource.

      Good luck and thanks so much for what you do.

      Reply ↓
    11. Lanam*

      Can he drive for Uber or another rideshare, or even do food delivery? My father speaks literally English and gets by with Uber driving full time.

      Reply ↓
  30. HouseMouse*

    Anyone have tech recommendations for a discrete work timer/stopwatch/alarm? Whenever I work from home, I use my phone’s clock app to set 25 minutes alarms so I can stay focused in time chunks and also give myself a signal to drink water and walk around. If I’m in the office, I feel uncomfortable pulling out my phone to do the same thing since it might appear that I’m distracted by my phone or playing with it instead of work…

    Would a smartwatch be my best (and expensive) option?

    Reply ↓
    1. Glazed Donut*

      If you’re okay with the visibility, Amazon has options for dice-like timers you can flip for various time settings (5, 10, 20, 25 min etc).

      Reply ↓
    2. Banana Pyjamas*

      Microsoft has built-in timers now. Just search Clock in your programs. If you use headphones no-one will hear, and it’s a small pop-up in the bottom corner of your screen.

      Reply ↓
      2. allathian*

        Yes, I recommend these. They’re simple because they’re already built into the software with no installation required and invisible to other people.

        That said, I’m glad that my office’s relaxed enough that glancing at my phone’s NBD…

        Reply ↓
    3. Wandering Bat*

      I’m a fan of my Time Timer, and depending on the model you get I think they’re pretty discreet. You can set it to beep when time is up or have it fully silent. I like that it’s visual so I can “see” time passing and how much time I have left before my next break. They have a free app if you want to try it out on your phone before committing to a physical timer.

      Reply ↓
    4. Pyanfar*

      I love an actual hourglass (sand timer). You can buy them for most common time intervals, they look like decor, and they don’t interrupt you if you are a roll.

      Reply ↓
  31. Irish Teacher.*

    Super-low stakes but was just thinking about something that happened at our staff party and wondering what the commentariate here would think of it.

    We each got a free drinks ticket and this one young staff member who is covering for somebody on maternity leave mentioned he didn’t drink. I suggested he get a soft drink, which he did, but the deputy principal and another teacher started teasing him about how they “don’t trust anybody who doesn’t drink.”

    While it was obviously a joke, it just struck me as somewhat inappropriate for the deputy principal who has a role in hiring to joke like that with somebody who is young, probably newly qualified, on a temporary contract and who might be applying for further jobs in the school in the future. I do tend to think rather literally, so it’s quite possible the guy being teased didn’t find it as uncomfortable as I would have.

    Reply ↓
    1. The Prettiest Curse*

      That’s definitely not okay, and I’m glad that our office party, they made it clear upfront that drink tickets could be used for hot drinks and soft drinks as well as alcohol. Plenty of people don’t drink, so that was a really thoughtless comment to make.

      Reply ↓
    2. Banana Pyjamas*

      I agree with your take. I can’t speak to Irish culture, but functional alcoholism is such a normalized part of Midwestern culture that not only would most people overlook what the principal said, you’d be seen as a stick in the mud for raising it.

      Reply ↓
    3. RLC*

      Agree 100%, absolutely inappropriate for the deputy principal to say that. Have been in many workplaces where I had the same “jokes” made to me by managers and I was deeply uncomfortable if not downright embarrassed. Certainly made me feel like an outsider/excluded, especially as I was often pressured to drink.

      Reply ↓
    4. 3 Foot Tall Inflatable Rainbow Unicorn*

      That wasn’t joking, that was bullying under the guise of “Can’t you take a joke?” and absolutely out of line coming from someone in a position of power.

      I quit a job because they didn’t just expect us to drink, the Christmas tradition was a multiple different shots at the party and people who weren’t getting drunk were considered party poopers.

      Reply ↓
    5. Zona the Great*

      This is when you issue a well placed, “wow” in as dry of a tone as you can muster, eye brow up only slightly, and walk away.

      Reply ↓
    6. Apex Mountain*

      To me it sounds like a lame dad joke. Personally I wouldn’t read too much into it, even if it’s slightly inappropriate

      Reply ↓
    7. RagingADHD*

      This may or may not work for you, but in situations where someone seems to be picking on / punching down on someone with tone deaf or meanspirited humor, I tend to clap back with an pointed joke targeting the instigator. IDK what in particular might pop up at that moment, but there’s a lot of material there about impaired judgement or “I didn’t know you trusted anybody,” something like that.

      People who dish it out rarely like to take it, but in a public situation like that they often feel like they have to be a good sport about it. I think it’s healthy for them to feel put on the spot in return.

      Reply ↓
    8. fhqwhgads*

      Yeah definitely inappropriate joke for work, especially given the power dynamic.
      In my experience – which doesn’t help since you’re not the target – but when I’ve occasionally encountered a snide remark about my not-drinking, I tend to shrug and say “migraine trigger”. Conveniently, it’s also true. It’s more than one shut up (or caused to backpedal) people who said something like “I don’t trust anybody who doesn’t drink”. The key tho is it works on people who are asses enough to make the joke but not giant asses enough to double down. So ya kinda gotta know who you’re dealing with.

      Reply ↓
    9. Girasol*

      That’s a terrible thing to say to a recovering alcoholic, which the fellow might have been. Or maybe he was like me, someone who isn’t alcoholic but watched several family members suffer and die from alcohol-related causes. Maybe it was some other perfectly good reason not to drink. He shouldn’t have to drink or explain any reason. As a non-drinker I don’t bother people who choose to drink and I fully expect them not to bother me. I would not trust someone who thinks that pushing others to drink is a joke or in any way acceptable, on the job or off.

      Reply ↓
      1. Bike Walk Barb*

        In the spirit of RagingADHD’s suggestion to push back, “I don’t trust people who think that pushing others to drink is a joke” would work well from someone in a position to get away with saying that.

        This is a terrible misjudgment on the part of the deputy principal. Alcoholism is widespread enough that they should know they should never suggest that drinking is required under any circumstances.

        Reply ↓
  32. 2025*

    Anyone have 2025 resolutions/goals?

    Mine is just a vague goal of getting my office reorganized and virtual desktop clean up with better organization there as well.

    Reply ↓
    1. BellaStella*

      Sort of. Joining a new team (same org tho) so I plan to be a better listener in my new role and try to take at least once policy course for the role.

      Reply ↓
    2. call me wheels*

      My work related ones are to pass my probation at my new day job and to get a second freelance writing gig after this current one finishes :)

      Reply ↓
    3. Throwaway Account*

      I’m a few years from retirement and have a new (and terrible boss) so my goal is to disengage from work (meaning get joy from things outside work and not get upset about work) and learn to greyrock them.

      Reply ↓
      1. Joyful and Triumphant*

        My goal is learn about ‘greyrock’ing. “The grey rock method involves becoming unresponsive to abusive or manipulative behavior so that the perpetrator will lose interest.”

        I’m sorry that you have to resort to this. But you’re right, finding joy outside work is so important. Last year for me it was my art. I was an avid park/rec art student and loved it. I brought it home and created a studio. Perhaps you can find an art outlet to let you get rid of the stress. You might find a pattern in that, too.

        Reply ↓
    4. Joyful and Triumphant*

      I will start a new job which includes managing (3) Gen Z ‘new to the workforce’ college grads. I’m an avid CliftonStrengths user so I downloaded my ‘Manager Strengths’ report and I’m learning how to be a good Gen X manager. I’ve mostly managed volunteers, as of late, with my most recent employee management stint being 2010-2012. I feel good about it, but I want to lean into my strengths as well as be a positive resources and support person for new workers, particularly getting them into non-profit.

      Reply ↓
    5. Tiny Clay Insects*

      My goal is to learn more about longterm care insurance, and to have me and my husband purchase some. (we are middle-aged and I’m terrified of being unprepared if we need help when we’re elderly.)

      Reply ↓
  33. Joyful and Triumphant*

    HIRED! 9.5 unemployed; 31 interviews; 25 1st/2nd/3rd interviews; 2 behavioral assessments for interviews; and 1 work project. I accepted a FT role with a local non-profit although the position is fully remote. The only other offer was a PT role requiring on-site attendance at least 3x week (30-min drive into downtown-ish area), and no benefits.

    It wasn’t a role I was looking for, but when it popped up, I was totally in. It’s a non-profit that my previous non-profit worked with, but I won’t be crossing paths with the previous employer in anyway.

    This role is in programs with an org whose services ramped up during COVID. Thus they consider themselves ‘new’ but they’ve been around for longer than 2020.

    Pay is not quite market and there’s no benefits. Just 3 weeks of paid PTO and incredibly flexible work schedules. The draw is that I get to help the founder/ED strengthen the organization for growth. There are several other funded post-college intern positions who I’ll be responsible for. Eventually we’ll hire a few staff and I’ll have the opportunity to shape the functions, processes, and procedures going forward.

    I’m in the last decade of my career. It would be great to wrap up my experiences into one cool mission.

    Reply ↓
  34. Resigning, Maybe*

    I’ve been been with current company for a 10 years and have been unhappy for a few. The last straw was when the last person in my department quit (making it a department of 1) and I was given their duties on top of mine. The only help I was given was a part-timer, relative of the owner, who either couldn’t or wouldn’t (or both) do the job well. Thus, I’ve been interviewing with other companies.

    I’ve had a few successful interview with one company lately. They will be making their decision in the coming weeks. If I get the position, it will be right at the time when my boss (company owner) is leaving to go on an extended trip.

    If I get selected for this new position, how do I handle the resignation? My boss will be 13 hours away, but will have some access to communication. There is no HR. By the time my boss gets back from this trip, it would most likely be time for me to start the new position.

    Reply ↓
    1. rhymes with anonymous*

      Once you have an offer letter and have confirmed that you really can count on the new job, give two weeks notice at your current employer, clean out your desk, and accept congratulations.

      Reply ↓
    2. Not A Manager*

      If it were me, I’d notify my boss by whatever means they can access, presumably email, and also whoever is superior to them and relevant – their boss, or the owner, or whoever. Outline your own transition plan, and then if you don’t hear back, just go ahead and create your handoff documents.

      Reply ↓
      1. Resigning, Maybe*

        My boss is the owner. There is no one superior to them. The only person superior to me is my boss. There’s also no one junior to me. Thererfore, except for documenting every process, I have no idea of what type of transition plan to create. Any thoughts?

        Also, is it irresponsible to just walk out, after having given notice, knowing that no one will be there to even do the most basic things like greet visitors or answer the phone? Or is that one my boss for not having anyone else as a backup?

        Reply ↓
        1. Rick Tq*

          Notify your boss when you have your offer letter and start date and let him choose what he will do.

          If he doesn’t come back from vacation you can just lock the doors and post a sign the business is closed for vacation and will open up when he is scheduled to return. Document all your business user names and passwords so the next person has access to the business’s accounts and move on.

          Your boss is irresponsible if they don’t return from vacation, not you.

          Reply ↓
    4. Kay*

      I’m assuming this isn’t currently a company of 2 and you have already made your boss aware of the issues with your workload and the other part time person (if they are still there-I’m not quite sure). The question here is most likely going to be – will you need this person as a reference?

      Of course you don’t need to give your boss a longer notice period, but if any future reference might sound something like “Employee seemed completely happy and even agreed they would be responsible for all production operations while I was away, but instead put in their notice as I on a cruise around Antarctica and locked up the business before I could even get a flight back!” then you may want to consider seeing if you can adjust things on your end. Ten years is a long chunk of work history to have associated with a scorched earth type story. If it isn’t something nearly as drastic, then your standard 2 weeks is fine.

      Reply ↓
    5. Rocky*

      I think you want to at least try to preserve the possibility of good references from your boss in the future. If you leave with no one in charge or even to answer the phones, that sounds like a thoroughly burned bridge to me. Also if it gets back to your new employer that you left that way (which, who knows, angry old boss might let them know), they might think you would do it to them too and that’s not a great way to start a new job. Can you negotiate a little later start date if you get the job? Asking for a little more and explaining you don’t want to leave your current job in the lurch while there’s literally no one to even answer the phones should sound reasonable to your new folks and possibly even impress them with how responsible you are.

      Reply ↓
  35. StartUpNewbie*

    Hi y’all,

    Earlier this year I started a business. Great, except it’s been super duper slow. I clearly need to sort out my advertising strategy as the one I’ve got clearly isn’t working. Has anyone else started a business and how did you figure out what kind of advertising was going to be effective for you?

    I’m a bit overwhelmed by how many different types of advertising there are and trying to figure out which one would be right for my business rather than just throwing my tiny start up budget at advertising and seeing what sticks

    Reply ↓
    1. Kay*

      Without knowing anything about your business, the answer is generally – determine who your target client/customer is and determine the best way and time to reach them. Ask yourself what feature makes your business a better choice than the competition and figure out the best way to highlight that to your prospects. Then – are there creative possibilities that might yield better results?

      Part of it is seeing what sticks, as sometimes things surprise you, but without knowing more it is impossible to say as there are endless possibilities.

      Reply ↓
    2. WellRed*

      There’s a retired business mentoring program. I forget what it’s called but think it’s under the SBA. That might be useful.

      Reply ↓
    3. Bike Walk Barb*

      Can you tell us what type of business it is? You may be assuming advertising is the way to go when something else (such as targeted networking if you’re in professional services, for example) will yield better results depending on what kind of business it is.

      Reply ↓
        1. allathian*

          References from happy clients are usually good for this. Of course, the problem is getting the first customers who can give you an honest reference… But I assume you have some fairly recent childcare experience and didn’t start from scratch?

          Can you use your personal networks, people who know you well enough to trust their children into your care without a professional reference? Generally I wouldn’t advise people to use their personal networks to drum up business, but starting out with a business providing personal services like childcare’s one of the few exceptions.

          Reply ↓
  36. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

    Book recommendation: Jay Abraham, “Getting Everything You Can Out of All You’ve Got”. It’s a while since I read it, but there’s lots in there about making connections with people who might want your stuff.

    Reply ↓
  37. Rosyglasses*

    Hopefully this isn’t too late on the Friday thread!

    Executives – have you been coached/told you need a better poker face? How have you made this happen for yourself?

    Backstory: I’m in a VP role in a larger company than I’ve worked in previously. The last company was smaller and I was very much the top of the food chain, but it was “small business” vibe and we had a very open, collaborative environment where disagreement was encouraged and we were professional, but still could interact with emotion.

    This company is more traditionally structured, and I’ve been coached by my C-suite boss that I need to have a better poker-face during larger group meetings and it’s been couched in terms of “emotional intelligence”. (yes, I very much think and process with my face – it has its own set of subtitles if I’m not careful. I try to keep my face fairly neutral but get called out for how my eyes react)

    I’m not sure I agree with him but I haven’t been in this particular type of role before and was hopeful to get some insight from others about professional norms and also some tips on how to keep your face and eyes more stoic.

    Yes, I am female, he is male, but he also coaches other men on our team about this – but it is mostly women. This is not a hill I can die on because he feels so strongly about it. Thanks for any guidance!

    Reply ↓
    2. Kay*

      I think in this case your boss is absolutely right (I’m a woman if it matters). When you are dealing with players at a higher and larger level, relationships are key. Those relationships aren’t going to survive if your eyes are screaming “You flipping moronic dbag thats the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard!” when your words are “Should we perhaps test exploding the mini bombs in a lab before we debut them in a crowd of our best clients for our grand opening?”

      Do you have someone you can practice with and a way to record yourself when hearing different things and your response? Work on not making any facial movements until you decide what you want to say or how you want to respond. Another thing you can do is to practice holding a “look”, often a light almost smile and somewhat interested expression is good as it shows engagement and positivity (which is of course expected of women), coming out of that “face” can disguise other expressions if you keep it mild and it is slightly harder to switch expressions than it is to go to your reaction from neutral. It gets easier over time but making an effort to practice and focus will speed it along, especially if you have gotten used to not needing to do any of that in your previous role.

      Reply ↓
    4. Kay*

      I don’t know where my original comment went – but saying that as a female I agree with your boss. Being in the upper levels of a larger organization requires lots of diplomacy and relationship building, which is hard to do if your eyes are calling the CEO an idiot as you say “how interesting”.

      Practicing with someone, recording yourself, practicing in the mirror on tempering your reactions and creating a “look” you can hold -I personally like a slightly interested almost smile- will serve you well.

      Reply ↓
    5. the manajeer*

      You say you’re not sure you agree with him, but in my experience, the feedback your boss is offering has value: A decent poker face is a tool you need in your kit to succeed in many corporate environments. There are many techniques, some gimmicky, some more substantive, and what they all have in common is creating distance between what’s going on in meetings/conversations and your feelings. Step one is to decide that yes, you want to try to improve on this (you seem to begin from there, and that’s good). Then explore the specific ways that you can detach from your feelings during difficult situations. Learn what works for you and practice.

      Reply ↓
  38. Why This!*

    Just cried at a one-on-one meeting with my boss’s boss about why I didn’t get a promotion. Gah. I feel mortified even though she was very kind about it. I wish I could turn my tear ducts off.

    Reply ↓
    2. Don’t make me come over there*

      Yeah, that has happened to me too. It’s inconvenient and embarrassing at the time, but very human. And in the long run, you have to feel the feels.

      Reply ↓
  39. Retired-ish*

    How do I decide what I want to do for a retirement job? I’m a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type. Spouse (the main bread winner) retired last year with a very good package. I’ve never made good money at any of my roles but I feel the need to do something part time to feel like I’m contributing. I’m sad to admit that I’m a bit of a job hopper, probably due to some long-time, untreated PTSD. Any suggestions for low-stress, part-time work for a retiree in good health? Thanks in advance.

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      What would you enjoy doing? Are you handy with tools and small fix it jobs? Do you love art (docent)? Or taxes (HR Block). Is there a certain work you like or population you’d like to serve? There’s a similar thread further up. The world really is your oyster at this point.

      Reply ↓
    2. econobiker*

      Between the Uber driving jobs to gig economy jobs like assembly of furniture there’s various apps to put you into a part time job per gig and not hourly.

      Reply ↓
  40. Jennie*

    Something I’m legitimately curious about! So I’m an immigrant who lives and works in a country that is not my home country. Most of the hires in our office are local, but there is a specialized team of us who are all foreigners (experts in our particular role are hard to find in this country.)

    We are fully in-office but MOST of our work can be done remotely. There is just one task we each do 1-3ish times per day that needs to be done on a company desktop, but on rare occasions when someone has been given permission to work a remote day (as far as I know this has only ever been granted due to COVID) other workers just handle that task for them and it’s not a problem as far as I know. But our manager believes strongly in fairness and even distribution of workloads, so we are all required to go in nevertheless.

    Managers at our company generally also don’t like to have more than one member of their respective teams off at any given time. This year, both I and another member of our all-expat team asked for the week between Christmas and new years off to fly home and see our families, but our manager said we couldn’t both have the same week and would have to split it. Neither of us was willing to fly around the world for only a few days, but the other employee very kindly ended up giving up Christmas with her family and moving her vacation to February.

    I will caveat that though we live in a majority Christian country, Christmas is not a huge deal here; many businesses (ours included) don’t close on the day, and it is not common for people to take multiple weeks off for it the way they do in much of the West.

    Still, I personally find our manager’s decision ridiculous. You have a team full of people from countries where Christmas is a massive holiday when families gather or vacation together. For most of us who are a 15-hour flight from home, seeing our families on Christmas is only really feasible if we can get a significant chunk of time off for the trip. I feel strongly to me that either the “only one can be off at a time” or the “no remote work” policy should not apply to our foreigner team regarding going home for Christmas. If only one person can do it per year, and our team has seven people, do I really have to wait another six years before I can spend another Christmas with my parents? They are aging!

    What do people think—is this something worth pushing back on, or am I in the wrong?

    Reply ↓
    1. WellRed*

      I can see both sides of the argument and honestly think companies can do without all their employees at this time of year due to natural slow downs. By all means, bring it up! But people presumably make a very deliberate choice to move half way around the world from their place of origin (money and benefits?). My mom (only family left and in increasing need of help) lives a hard four hour highway drive away. That’s just as important to me, especially as I age and have certain requirements for making that drive.

      Reply ↓
    2. Fushi*

      As someone who works abroad and manages a team of foreign workers that would be impossible to replace with locals, I think companies need to see allowing leave to their foreign workers around their home countries’ holidays as a fact/cost of doing business. They are simply not going to retain quality people (especially those from countries where ample leave is standard!) if they are stubborn about that, particularly in cases like yours where there isn’t any apparent business need for folks to be in-office during that time.
      Obviously how strongly you can make that case depends on how hard you are to replace and your own willingness to leave over this issue, but it’s perfectly reasonable to point it out. If you can do so as a group, all the better.
      If they try to make it about “fairness,” well, what I always say to that is “yeah, I guess you should really treat your local workers better too.” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      Reply ↓
    3. Kay*

      I can see both sides here as well. Presumably you moved to the country and negotiated your terms of employment knowing, at least to some extent, the country doesn’t handle the holiday or time off like you are accustomed to. I also don’t know that exempting only one team from company policy is a good look either.

      With that being said, it clearly isn’t necessary for the “only one person off at a time” policy and I would push back as a group for that reason.

      Reply ↓
  41. Paid vacation dreaming*

    I think one answer is for the group of folks whose family is a 15-hour flight from their work place to vote with their feet… find a job that offers what you desire.

    And for a policy on who can get which vacation days, if I were the management I would think generally like, “given our paid holiday schedule, and that many people want to get the most bang for their buck (as in using paid holidays in a way that could maximized time off) how can we most fairly rotate who gets that time off? ”

    It should not be a matter of giving people whose family if farther from the workplace priority, that’s not fair as to those whose live close to their families. And in the US, private companies are not required to give any paid vacations or holidays (except if there is a union contract requiring them.

    Reply ↓

Leave a Comment

Before you comment: Please be kind, stay on-topic, and follow the site's commenting rules.
You can report an ad, tech, or typo issue here.

Subscribe to all comments on this post by RSS