our underage intern drank at the company party

by Alison Green on December 16, 2024

A reader writes:

Earlier this week I was chatting with our intern, Rachel, and another coworker about the staff party the previous week. I had been sick and missed it, and intern Rachel, who is in college and under 21, said that I didn’t miss anything, just her getting a little drunk … because they didn’t card her. I’m not a teetotaler, but I was stunned that she would admit it in front of us like it was a funny in-joke.

In planning the party, we specifically picked a non-happy-hour event and decided not to serve booze because we had an underage team member. Which means she ordered it herself.

Obviously the best moment to correct this has passed and I’m not her direct manager, but I feel like I need to let her know that this was not professional behavior. But I’m at a loss for how to do so.

Rachel is a great intern from what I see — she asks thoughtful questions, is eager to learn, and has brought some great ideas into brainstorms. She does have a tendency to sometimes overshare and be a bit loud, but never in an annoying way, just a bit naive.

Has the moment gone to give her some friendly professional advice?

I answer this question over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

You may also like:
{ 183 comments }

{ 183 comments… read them below }

  1. Dr. Rebecca*

    Yeahhhhhh. *sigh* I confessed to having a hangover yesterday when talking to my boss, but the last time she and I saw each other socially we split a bottle of prosecco, so…the culture matters.

    2. Na$ty Larry*

      My work culture is one where a couple of times a year, our team meets up for a happy hour or a holiday party and most people get pretty drunk. One year before one of those events I was already hungover and proclaimed it gleefully as I prepared to get drunk with my team.

      I’m going on a decade with this team and it’s my only office experience so I am SO GRATEFUL to AAM for being the reason I know this is a culture thing and not an every job thing and won’t make a fool of myself at the first holiday party if/whenever I eventually move on.

    3. Cmdrshprd*

      I think you are saying you told your boss (today Monday) that you had a hangover yesterday (on Sunday) from drinking the day/night before on (Saturday). In that you drank a bit on the weekend while not at work and suffered the effects of it also on the weekend while not at work.

      I personally would not share that, but that I don’t think is that big of a deal. I think it would be different if you had said you were actively suffering from a hangover (today Monday) while at work/ working from home, from drinking yesterday (Sunday). Again I wouldn’t share, I don’t think it is quite as professional, it is not the worst thing. But either situation is very different from confessing to getting drunk at a work event, and a far cry from drinking under age.

      But even splitting a bottle of prosecco is not that much 750 ml = 25 oz, so 12.5 oz per person, at the standard 5 oz glass that is only 2.5 glasses per person, that is what I would consider acceptable/professional levels of drinking for a work event/coworkers. I think 2-3 drinks is okay depending on the type/length of event.

  2. LovelyTresses*

    Alison, when you’re revisiting letters from the archives and updating/expanding on your answers, do you note the update/expansion language or is it just contained in the answer as it runs? I’ve always been curious!

    1. Random Academic Cog*

      You can generally find the original in the AAM archives, and it’s easy to compare the responses. Most of the time it doesn’t look like anything beyond the occasional type has changed.

  3. A Simple Narwhal*

    On the original letter someone in the comments wondered if Rachel was just trying to sound cool, and I could definitely see that being the case.

    When you’re young, the ability to get drunk is way cooler than it is when you’re older. Heck, there’s even a chance that she might be exaggerating what actually happened in a misguided attempt to seem grown-up or cool. “A coworker ordered a couple bud lights and offered me one” is a less fun story than “oh yea I totally got a little drunk at a work event, nbd”, and definitely a story I could see a young person telling.

    The advice still stands, both for the behavior, and that she should know that coworkers aren’t the right audience for a story like that.

        1. LadyAmalthea*

          As someone with 2 year old twins, one of whom always wakes up at night due to a full nappy, and the other who tends to wake up at 6:15, both sound brag worthy.

    2. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      Ah, the irony. “I will impress a senior coworker with how mature I appeared because I was served without being carded.”

      Not realizing that: 1) that’s the opposite of showing maturity; 2) the staff assumed all members of the work party were over 21, not a personal call on the intern.

    3. Lenora Rose*

      Also at younger ages, if you’re not someone who has done it much, the ability to get drunk happens waaay faster. One shot was enough when I was 18. (legal age is 18 here.) I remember having to be careful with 2 drinks nursed over hours.

      Okay, I’m probably back down to that since I drink once every month or two, and my tolerance was never very high, but still, she could be saying she got a bit drunk because she had one drink too fast.

  4. Soontobetetired*

    getting drunk at work events is bad enough, getting drunk when you are under age is something else. learn the lesson early.

  5. Katie*

    Stuff like this makes me think of a coworker (who was a manager) I had that casually mentioned to the store manager that he gave (on work premises) alcohol for Christmas to two underage coworkers. He was fired…

    2. Cmdrshprd*

      We had a summer outing for interns that ranged from 2nd year undergrads, to recently graduated grad students. It started at a restaurant and migrated back to the office, 21+ were allowed to order alcohol, but not the under 21s. At the office we had some drinks, one of the interns asked if they could have a drink, and a coworker of mine said it was okay in front of me citing he knew they were in college and likely drinking already.

      I unfortunately felt compelled to shut it down, since it happened in front of me. I was the lower in responsibility/authority there, coworker was SME, I was support staff, it likely would not have been on me, but even so I didn’t want to take the risk of knowing about it.
      I explained I’m not naive enough to think they don’t drink, but citing legal reasons I did not want to risk my job for knowing about it on work premises, and putting the company at risk, if anything happened.

  6. Heidi*

    It’s almost a bit ironic that the OP went out of the way to accommodate an underage intern for this event. In some sense, it prevents the intern from experiencing the professional norms she’s expected to follow. But I agree the nice thing would be to say something, especially if you’re describing the sober version of the intern as a loud, naive, oversharer.

    1. Everything Bagel*

      It was an event that sounds like it was during the work day and no one else was drinking alcohol but the intern still ordered their own drinks. They apparently did not pick up on the fact that they were the only ones drinking at a work event. I think they’re still plenty that can be taught to this intern based on this scenario.

      1. F*

        I don’t know if she was the only one drinking, the OP doesn’t say that. If she ordered her own drinks, it’s likely other (legal) employees were as well.

    2. ScruffyInternHerder*

      Its really nice though.

      At a previous employer, almost all of our interns were excluded from the holiday luncheon because of the location (location was 21 and up, and no exceptions could be made as it was a restaurant inside of a casino, aka we’re dealing with state gaming board regulations here). We all felt it was REALLY crappy, because the party planner knew ahead of time that they’d be excluded and still went ahead of it. That company had such a strong intern-to-fulltime-pipeline that it seemed a really baffling choice.

    3. varied*

      Drinking is a professional norm interns et al. are eventually expected to follow?

      And one should learn those “norms” while under-aged?

      Do you hear yourself?

      1. Reluctant Mezzo*

        No, having an event which wasn’t exclusive to over-21s and offered some non-drinking venues would have been a better alternative.

      2. BethDH*

        I’m assuming the norm the commenter meant was “even if alcohol is being served don’t get drunk” which is an important norm that many people who start drinking in college among peers don’t learn right away. That’s a good one to learn even while underage, though I don’t think OP was doing a disservice to the intern by not adding that to the other work party norms they’re learning.

        1. Heidi*

          Yes, that’s exactly what I meant – thanks! I never imagined that anyone would interpret that to mean that the underage interns should be drinking, but there’s language for you, I guess.

  7. AndersonDarling*

    I really hope a senior employee didn’t buy the intern drinks. I’d definitely inquire how they got the drinks before I followed Alison’s script.
    If I was underage and a Director bought me a cocktail, I wouldn’t really know how to handle it. Are they giving me permission to drink? Are they making a pass? What happens if I refuse, will I not be cool and loose a chance to be hired?

    1. Lab Rabbit.*

      Rachel says they didn’t card her and LW says this was specifically planned as a non-alcohol event due to the presence of Rachel, so I really think you are reading something nefarious into a regular non-nefarious work event.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        I was actually thinking of a scenario that the drinking may have happened after the main event. If there isn’t alcohol at the event, then the alcohol had to be purchased from somewhere outside the party, likely after the party officially ended, or in an adjacent area.
        I wasn’t actually thinking anything nefarious. I’ve been at work parties where a senior member will buy a round after the main party ends, and in this case, they wouldn’t know that there was someone underage.

      2. linger*

        The letter specifies that alcohol was available at the venue, but not supplied by the company, and only at full price (“non-happy-hour”). So anyone could order their own drinks during the event (and possibly, many did), but the organizers assumed that responsible bartending staff would not permit underage participants to order for themselves, and/or that the cost (or, again, responsible bartending staff) would discourage over-consumption.
        I’m not sure that Sarah needs to be given a Serious Talk about this.
        The bartenders, on the other hand…

    2. Antilles*

      There’s nothing in the letter indicating people knew she was drinking or were handing them drinks or etc. I think the far more likely scenario is that the staff didn’t realize she was underage, making the (reasonable) assumption that at a professional company event, everybody’s going to be 21.

    3. Smithy*

      As a luncheon in a restaurant – it could also have been a case where drinks weren’t included but the bar was still there and some staff were personally buying drinks to have during the lunch.

      My office/sector is normally NOT a drinks at lunch environment – but our holiday party (that featured lunch), started at 2pm. The party always planned on having drinks and it was in the office, so while there was a vibe of “we never do drinks at lunch” – we also had senior people drinking and the activity was clearly ok.

      In assuming the best of the intern, while also noting the mistake – I think it’s charitable to assume that other people were going to the bar to get drinks. Maybe alcoholic, maybe sodas – whatever. So the intern was made aware, and then went to the bar and seized the moment. Maybe a more senior staff member did ask what the intern wanted in a way that made it seem more ok.

      If something more nefarious was happening, or the intern was behaving even more recklessly all of that might come out in a conversation. But the base advice around not drinking at a work event when you’re underage, not over consuming, and not talking about being hungover remain as practical advice.

  8. A Susie and Elaine Problem*

    Ugh. This reminds me of an annual event I used to organize/run for a university department. For years it was for graduate students, postdocs, and faculty (all 21+) so drinking age was not an issue.

    Then one year one of the program managers insisted on inviting a small cohort of undergrads (as in 4 kids). Because of this we had to set up an ID check/wristband system which was a huge drag. Per regulation everyone had to be carded, regardless of apparent age.

    I kept thinking of the Simpsons when their dog had all those greyhound puppies and Marge put flea collars on the kids because it was easier than putting them on all the dogs… I kept wishing we could just “band the kids” to indicate “don’t give them booze.”

    1. Butt in Seat*

      As someone else who works in a university – I find it demeaning and infantilizing to refer to undergraduates as “kids”. They may not be able to drink yet, but they’re old enough to enlist in the military, live on their own, and go to college. (Yes, they may be substantially younger in both age and maturity than grad students… but they’re not “kids”.)

      1. Resentful Oreos*

        Someone on another board, not from the US, left a comment saying “why do Americans refer to college students as kids? In my country they are adults, because they are of legal age.” (IIRC her country was one of the Nordic countries.) I don’t know about the rest of the anglophone world, but we do tend to infantilize our young adults, possibly because of the longer college-to-work pipeline.

        I agree, college students are young adults, not kids, unless Doogie Howser is attending your party. If the young adults are still not of *drinking* age, then it’s on the company to institute some kind of ID system to buy alcoholic drinks. Certainly not have coworkers babysitting the interns.

        1. allathian*

          I’ve said the same thing here.

          I’m in Finland, and here 18 is the big cutoff because 18 is both the legal drinking age and the legal driving age, although you can get special permission for a driver’s license at 17. Most people who start driving at 17 do so because they live in a rural area with poor public transit or because they work after school or are involved in highly competitive sports that require training sessions both before and after school.

          We start 1st grade in the year we turn 7 so kids born in the fall are 6 years old when they start school. This means that when we graduate high school after K-12, all of us are legal adults (unless it’s one of the few child prodigy exceptions who do a 3-year high school in 2 years). I’d say the educational pipeline is actually longer here because we start later. My son who’s 15 and in the last year of middle school (9th grade here) is a member of the first cohort for whom a year of preschool was compulsory.

          Institutes of tertiary learning including colleges and universities aren’t allowed to give any information to the parents at all without explicit permission by the student, which is required separately for every single information request and can be rescinded at any time. But then we also have free tuition up to and including master’s degrees so parents don’t even have the excuse of needing the info because they’re paying for the degree to fall back on. (Sure, students need to live somewhere, but when I got my master’s degree I had about 20K in student loans.)

          But this means that there are no interns who aren’t allowed to drink, at least not in office jobs because all college students are allowed to drink.

          That said, there’s an option to go to vocational school after 9th grade instead of the more academic high school, which people attend with the intent of going to college afterwards. Vocational schooling means being an intern while underage.

          When I was a student, the hardest drinkers were the Americans who were underage at home but legal here.

        2. ClaireW*

          In Ireland (and the UK) we have the same college-to-work pipeline generally – if you go to uni it’s 3-5 years on top of schooling so you’re usually between 21 and 23 when you finish not including like gap years or older students etc. But it would seem ridiculous to call a uni student a ‘kid’ here, and most people have had alcohol before 18 anyway so that’s not considered aa reasonable way to distinguish children from adults.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            Yeah, while it’s a lot stricter now, when I was a kid back in the ’90s, well, we had a talk in 6th class (11/12 years old) about alcohol and drinking sensibly and the implication, though not said aloud, was that it was a decision we’d be making fairly soon. I remember the booklets we were given included, “you can choose to drink, not to drink or to put off the decision until you are older” and then there was advice about drinking sensibly “if you choose to drink” and not being judgemental about drinkers if you choose not to.

            So definitely not a mark of “now you’re an adult.”

            And Ireland has one of the highest rates of college attendance in the world, but…I do think we have a rather different attitude to college, in some ways than the US. It seems like college in the US is more like school in some ways. Students are more likely to live in the dorms than they are here and there are required subjects and so on. Here, you choose your degree course and if, for example, you decide to apply for medicine or law or science, you aren’t going to have to take courses in literature. And vice versa. If you are doing an English degree, you aren’t going to have classes in science or maths.

            Mind you, I do think we infantalise our young adults in Ireland too, but in different ways. And I wouldn’t think of college students as kids.

      2. Meaningful hats*

        I work in a university setting and catch myself calling our undergrads “kids” sometimes. I always correct myself when I do. Unless of course I’m talking about the students in our on-campus preschool- they’re referred to as “baby [mascot]s”.

      3. StarTrek Nutcase*

        Agree. I also think they should be expected to handle alcohol responsibly – as in not drinking if not drinking legal age. Rachel may not know work norms, but she knew she was not legal to drink. It’s unfortunate that more parents don’t stress full responsibility for actions especially once an adult. Sure others may contribute (like if boss handed her a drink), but she ultimately drank.

        And just my opinion, but bartenders should only be responsible for not serving underage. If an adult chooses to drink to drunk, any consequences belong solely to them – not server or work culture. But I recognize my opinions have often been out-of-step even when I was Rachel’s age.

      1. Clisby*

        At least at events I’ve attended that used the wristband system, you had to have the band to order alcohol. No band meant no alcohol.

    3. Alex*

      As someone who is involved in the operation of a venue that serves alcohol and operates such a wristband system I have to say that banding the “kids” as you put it wouldn’t work. You need to band to give extra perks rather than to take away or people simply head to the bathroom and remove their band (as I have seen happen at a few events I have attended in a personal capacity).

    4. Always Tired*

      This is our first year having an underaged employee, and it’s been difficult to manage. We’re a construction company, and the crews like to go hard on company dime at events. I speek with him before each event pointing out that (1) him drinking is a huge liability for the company, so we can’t tolerate it, so (2) don’t let a beer cost you your job, and (3) don’t let it cost your coworkers jobs for helping you get it. I also point him out to the servers and bartenders at nicer events and I’m like “that’s the only underaged one. Do not serve him. Do not let the others try to sneak him drinks!” and it’s worked so far, or they’ve all gotten very sneaky. Either way.

      1. ScruffyInternHerder*

        Similar experiences in the past here.

        I will say that the crews were definitely helpful in making sure that the one or two super young apprentices/interns “did not in front of the owner, that’s rude.” What may happen elsewhere, no idea, but points 2 and 3 that you mention above were frequently brought up by our crews.

    5. Lisa*

      There’s a bar in a college town that my friends used to go to, that allowed underage (18-21) people in when there was a band but they put a mark on both your hands in sharpie to indicate you were underage. No cutting the band off that way.

      1. Wayward Sun*

        College town bars are often targets for liquor board enforcement, too, so they often have to be extra careful. One bar I go to got sick of having to make judgement calls about fake IDs and resorted to a policy of, 1) everyone gets carded, 2) only in-state IDs that were issued *after* you turned 21, 3) no passports, 4) no military IDs.

  9. Apex Mountain*

    I agree with the suggested advice and I think you can easily deliver it without it seeming like a lecture.

    Not that it matters overall, but what does it mean that you decided not to serve alcohol, but then you mention she ordered it anyway?

    1. Random Academic Cog*

      Not OP, but I read it as no company-sponsored open bar in a party room at a restaurant, so people were going to the bar and purchasing drinks on their own dime.

  10. Machine*

    I wouldn’t allow drinking at work at any company functions, including retirement parties, birthday parties, Christmas parties, other holiday parties, with clients, or at any time an employee is a company representative. The rules would be strictly enforced with consequences for employees who break the rules. Drunk employees are a liability, a liability I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole. Any beverage over 0.05% abv wouldn’t be allowed, meaning beverages such as Heineken 0.0% would be allowed. This solves the problems that arise from a drunk intern, who could have been pressured by more senior colleagues or, at the very least, allowed to partake in illegal behavior. All negatives are avoided by not allowing drinking at work ever, as there are no positives to allowing drinking at work. This site has many stories why banning drinking is a sensible option.

    1. Apex Mountain*

      That’s not realistic for many companies. Nobody should be getting blatantly drunk at work functions, but people still want to have a beer or a glass of wine etc at an event, holiday party, client dinner, etc.

      You don’t need to ban it entirely just because of an occasional problem

    2. L-squared*

      I mean, have fun with that. And when people choose not to go to the event, don’t be surprised.

      The chance of me going to a dry work function is pretty low TBH. I’m totally fine without saying “each person gets 2 drink tickets” or something. But chances are, I don’t want to hang out with a lot of those people without a couple drinks in me.

    3. Positive*

      I find that reality is more nuanced than “there are no positives to allowing drinking at work” …

      The science is in. After centuries, the practice of sharing alcohol has proven benefits in team-building, unit cohesion, and improving morale. The moderate and sensible consumption of alcohol in certain work situations by adults is one tool in the kit of those of us who manage employees.

    4. Roland*

      Genuinely cannot tell for sure if this is satire or not. I love the comment section but it is impossible to satire lol.

    6. allathian*

      Good luck getting your employees who are of legal age and who drink responsibly to attend any such events after hours. I’m totally fine with no alcohol being served during office hours, especially if it’s a lunch event and people are expected to work afterwards.

  11. Chairman of the Bored*

    I don’t see anything here requiring action from LW.

    An adult opted to drink a bit at a party. That’s seemingly it. There is no mention of her driving, or making a scene, or otherwise doing something dangerous or problematic. The venue clearly didn’t care and seemingly neither did anybody else.

    Rachel ordered the beer herself, so it presumably wasn’t provided or paid for by the company.

    When I was a 20 year old intern I would absolutely have a few beers at the holiday party, and would regard an older colleague advising against it as “unprofessional” to be overstepping – especially if they weren’t my manager.

    1. JFC*

      +1000. Presumably Rachel is over 18 and thus old enough to make her own decisions. This isn’t like a 14-year-old. She doesn’t need someone prying into her actions and giving her motherly advice. It doesn’t sound like this caused any issues. If it happens again in the future and her behavior is problematic, she’ll hear about it from the appropriate people.

      Amazing to me how many LWs don’t want to mind their own business.

      1. Matt*

        This, and the 21 drinking age is really an US peculiarity as seen worldwide – in most of Europe it’s 16 for beer and wine and 18 for hard liquor.

          2. Timothy (TRiG)*

            US companies need to follow US laws. That’s on the bar, which made a mistake in serving her. I’m not aware of any US law that says that OP or their company needs to do anything about it.

      2. Lab Rabbit.*

        In the United States, the legal drinking age is 21. Being 18 isn’t really the issue, she’s still not old enough to legally purchase or consume alcohol. Rachel broke the law at a company event. This is no different than her pulling money out of the till. She’s at a company event on company time. Depending on the local jurisdiction, this could also create some legal ramifications for the company.

        Plus, the expectations around interns are different. They are there to learn, and not being told “hey, yeah, you shouldn’t break the law” during a company event seems like everyone at the company is a terrible lapse of responsibility by her coworkers and manager.

        She should be told that not only what she did is illegal, it’s also a terrible lapse in professional judgement.

        This is definitely not a MYOB moment.

        1. Pescadero*

          Depending on the state – there are a number of exceptions to the 21 year old drinking age.

          1) Lots of states allow underaged drinking outside licensed premises, if the alcohol is provided by a parent or a spouse.

          2) Lots of states allow underaged drinking for religious reasons

          3) A small number of states allow underage drinking for education (learning to brew beer, be a bartender, etc.)

          4) In some states – being accompanied by a parent means an underage person can purchase alcohol in a bar/restaurant and be served.

          5) Almost all states make exceptions for medical use

          2. Ali + Nino*

            But none of these caveats applied to the situation in question. Just because there are exceptions doesn’t mean they are relevant.

        2. Chairman of the Bored*

          So next time I see a colleague keeping up with traffic and driving 72 mph in a 65 mph zone on a work trip I should upbraid them for “breaking the law on company time” which is really no different than theft?

          1. Immaterial*

            If they’re bragging about speeding and they ate new to the work world, I don’t think it would be put of line to give them a heads off about how it might come off.

          2. mango chiffon*

            If the conversation went like “what happened during the work trip” and the colleague said “you didn’t miss anything, but I was just speeding the whole way there, but I didn’t get a ticket!” I would definitely say that’s unprofessional. You seem to be imagining that LW is lecturing a coworker rather than giving advice to an intern just starting their professional career.

          3. Irish Teacher.*

            I think if they were breaking the speed limit when driving a company vehicle for business reasons, then yes, if you were their manager or otherwise in authority over them, you should definitely say something because it would be an issue for the company if they crashed or hit somebody and killed them and were found to have been speeding when doing so. Now, I suppose somebody going at 67 miles an hour in a 65 zone is different from somebody doing 100, but I still don’t think it would be out of order to say, “hey, keep the speed limit when using company vehicles.”

            And if the person in question was an intern, then I definitely think it would be worthwhile telling them, “hey, don’t speed when driving for the company,” even if they were only going a mile or two over the limit, as interns are less likely to have the experience to be able to be good judges of what’s a breach of the rules they can get away with and what is likely to be a serious issue, so it’s best if they stick firmly to the rules.

            I would definitely have concerns about the judgement of an intern who broke the speed limit when driving a company vehicle. People are generally on their best behaviour during internships so I would expect them to be taking more care then than they would be when they get hired fully.

            Though I don’t agree at all with the person who compared drinking underage to stealing from the till. The former is a law for the intern’s protection whereas stealing harms other people. I wouldn’t even consider underage drinking comparable to speeding, which can kill.

        3. Momma Bear*

          I was at an event many years ago where HS kid proceeded to not only get drunk but then get injured and had to go to the ER. Among other concerns were losing the venue (which didn’t happen, but it could have). It’s not just about a legal adult illegally drinking at work. I mean, DUIs are still a thing, regardless of age.

          Intern mentioned it to LW, which means LW has enough interaction with Intern to address it. I hope LW did.

        4. Antilles*

          This is no different than her pulling money out of the till.
          It’s absolutely different and the law itself acknowledges that.
          Underage drinking is a misdemeanor and the maximum first-time offender penalty is a small fine ($250 or less in my state), possibly accompanied by community service or an alcohol awareness program.
          Theft has much bigger fines, the possibility of jail time, and also could be a felony depending on the amount stolen.

          1. Irish Teacher.*

            And stealing deprives somebody else of their property. Even if it’s “only” a company, companies pass on the losses to customers and sometimes the staff are blamed for not preventing stealing, so there are people harmed by it.

            While Rachel’s underage drinking could possibly cause problems for the company and therefore isn’t something they are going to want happening at their events, it doesn’t really directly harm anybody (unless one sees it as harming Rachel herself by allowing her access to something she is deemed too young to use sensibly).

          2. Wayward Sun*

            The biggest penalties are for the person who served them. In some places I’ve lived, the first instance of serving a minor is a warning, the second is a liquor license suspension.

        5. L-squared*

          Its MYOB depending on your role.

          It is nothing like pulling money out of a til. It’s more akin to speeding in a company car. Yes, its breaking the law, but nothing serious. Not great, but also not something I’m going to involve myself in. If it was my report, sure. Otherwise, nope.

    2. AMH*

      But lots of places would consider it very unprofessional — the point is not to be moralizing, the point is to give the intern the tools they need to make decisions KNOWING lots of places are stricter on stuff like this. It’s not overstepping to drop a word of friendly advice, in my opinion — as long as it is delivered lightly and not judgmentally.

      1. Angstrom*

        Right. This isn’t a lecture on the evils of drinking — it’s a quick talk about appropriate behavior at a work function and at work.
        It is very common for interns to not understand the differences between appropriate work behavior and non-work social behavior.
        The intern can make her own choices. She will be judged for the choices she makes.

        1. Decidedly Me*

          Yes, this. Also, being able to make your own choices doesn’t mean there are no consequences to the ones you make.

        2. AMH*

          Exactly. I don’t actually have a problem with an 18 year old having a drink. I have a lot of complicated feelings on the attitudes & laws in the US around drinking and how they can end up encouraging alcohol abuse.

          But, this isn’t my world to control and & what is ok amongst friends (or strangers) in this real world and what is seen as professional are two different things, and it is a disservice to the intern to not give them the information they need to make an informed choice about how to present themselves in a job.

      2. Statler von Waldorf*

        Would ” lots of places would consider it very unprofessional” though? None of the ones I have worked at would. There are many places in the world where actual children drinking small amounts of alcohol is not a big deal, never mind a 20 year old doing so.

        This is why the plural of anecdote is not evidence. Maybe your working experience are more representative of the workplace as a whole than mine are, maybe not. Without actual data, we’re both just painting the world with the brush of our own experiences.

        1. Lab Rabbit.*

          Given the fact that the age 21 is mentioned, this makes me think there is a 100% chance this is in the United States (which makes what the intern did, and what the servers did by not carding her, illegal), and yes, underage drinking is a very big thing here.

          Regardless, knowing you are not old enough to buy alcohol, but trying to buy it anyway, is also illegal in the United States, which means that even if the intern had been carded, her actions would still be illegal.

          In general, illegal actions in the workplace are generally considered unprofessional.

          1. Statler von Waldorf*

            I am willing to concede that this could be a large culture difference between the US and Canada on the drinking issue.

            I strongly disagree on the illegal actions part. That’s a double-sided standard that only applies if you break the wrong laws, usually the ones that apply to poor people. You can totally break many laws without it being considered unprofessional. No one thinks a CEO is unprofessional for engaging in wage theft.

            1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

              ” No one thinks a CEO is unprofessional for engaging in wage theft.”

              …um, what? No, seriously, what?

              I’m hardpressed to think of anyone who would think wage theft is okay. At least in the U.S., that’s illegal, so unless things are Really Different in Canada, EVERYONE would see that as unprofessional and downright wrong.

          2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

            I think what’s throwing some of us non-US readers off is that where we are it isn’t an offence to buy alcohol underage, but only to supply it to someone underage (either selling it to them, or buying it on their behalf).

            So, leaving the exact age out of it, you guys are talking about committing an offence and we’re hearing “doing something unwise but not unlawful, which could maybe possibly get a stranger in trouble”. For us, it’s only possibly worth a quiet word in the intern’s ear from a mentor, but not immediately concerning to everyone who hears it, nor any reflection on her wider character.

            The cultural divide on this subject is so wide we can’t stand in each other’s shoes.

            1. Statler von Waldorf*

              I’m starting to see that. For all the similarities between Canadians and Americans, there are still some rather stark differences between our cultures. Today I learned that attitudes about underage drinking is one of them.

          3. Pescadero*

            “knowing you are not old enough to buy alcohol, but trying to buy it anyway, is also illegal in the United States”

            This varies wildly from state to state.

            In some states underage folks attempting to buy alcohol is illegal. In other states – only possession of alcohol by someone underage is illegal, but attempting to purchase is not (as long as you don’t commit other crimes in the attempt).

        2. I Have RBF*

          Yeah, the US is really puritanical about drinking. OTOH, is some families, like mine, getting children used to how to drink responsibly is normal. This includes learning when you’ve had too much in a safe environment – at home.

          But I agree that it is a kindness to inform the intern about the norms of workplace drinking, including safety, liability, and safeguarding their professional reputation (as in “don’t be defined as a lush” reputation.) Lots of people don’t learn it at home.

          1. JFC*

            Yes, this was my experience as a teen, and was very common among most of my classmates. The belief is that most kids will drink alcohol underage at some point and it’s best for them to do so under adult supervision rather than out at parties. This helped me to know my limits and how alcohol affected me without fear of punishment.

            The age 21 thing is very arbitrary.

          2. Wayward Sun*

            I know one parent who tried that approach but had to stop when his kid started bragging to other kids about being allowed to drink. It was a bad look.

        3. Happy meal with extra happy*

          Except we have the data that OP thinks it’s unprofessional, and they know much more about their workplace than commenters here, especially when the workplace as a whole planned the event with the intern in mind (especially when we get the false equivalency of “well other places in the world!”…)

          I think the anti-pearl clutching pearl clutching happening on this thread is bizarre, that people think OP is out of bounds to tell her intern colleague that casually discussing breaking the law at a work event might be a bad look.

        4. AMH*

          Sure. But the point is not to have a scientifically reviewed bunch of evidence, the point is to provide helpful information to an intern who is new to the working world. So regardless of whether my experience is universal, it’s in my opinion a helpful piece of data for an intern new to the working world that there are plenty of places that would consider it unprofessional for someone underage to be drinking at an event.

            1. AMH*

              I mean, I don’t really want to get into the derailing weeds with a back and forth here, so I’ll just say that I never said it was universally the case that companies (and I guess, seeing you’re from Canada I’ll add the caveat I should have originally, in the US) would judge someone underage drinking at a work event, I said that there are lots of places where that would be true. And since I’ve worked at lots of places where that is true, and since there are multiple people in this comment section concurring, I’m going to say by that standard, it’s helpful data because it’s true.

      3. Person from the Resume*

        I think the conversation is not “you can’t drink.”

        You’re under age and should not violate law at company event. I am / we are not your friends where you talk (brag) about breaking minor laws. Also no matter your age you should not get even a little bit drunk at a company event and if you accidentally do get a bit drunk at work do not talk about it as if it’s a funny incident.

    3. Immaterial*

      I think it falls under a general don’t tell people about how you broke the law at work and Tony engage in illegal behavior at work.

    4. mango chiffon*

      I disagree. I think it is completely in LW’s wheelhouse to give advice to an intern, who is there to learn about how to work. Telling an intern that it is not professional to brag about (underage) drinking is totally fine advice. Being of age and bragging about getting drunk at a work event is also unprofessional, and I would think it appropriate to advise someone not to brag about that as well.

      1. Nina*

        If the venue is discovered to have served someone underage, they can lose their liquor license and that is a business-ending consequence

        1. Lab Rabbit.*

          In my state, both the business and the server who didn’t card the intern can be held legally liable. The business can be fined and lose its liquor license, and the server can be fined (and would probably be fired in most cases, since most businesses around here card everybody).

        2. Chairman of the Bored*

          This seems like a potential problem for the venue, not something that Rachel’s random colleagues need to be worried about.

          1. Lab Rabbit.*

            But part of the intern experience is learning about professionalism.

            It is not professional to admit that you got drunk at a work event where no one else was drinking.

            It is not professional to admit that you broke the law, especially when you are at a work event.

          2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

            Depends on whether it’s a venue the business wants or needs to preserve an ongoing relationship with. “Someone underaged in your party ordered alcohol, and no one else in your group tried to stop them” might be a reason the group isn’t welcome back at the venue in the future, particularly if it resulted in a fine from the liquor board. It could certainly get the intern banned as an individual.

            Whether or not this matters much to the OP’s company (rather than just the intern) depends on whether the venue was, say, a hotel where you also host several work conferences a year and thus gave you a discount on hosting your holiday party there or whether it was the local Applebees or equivalent, where you presumably do not regularly hold business events.

      2. Resentful Oreos*

        I think that’s as far as advice should go. “Hey Rachel, it’s not considered professional to get drunk at a work party.” Then point her to Ask A Manager and all the letters that pour in about what happens when people DO get drunk at work parties. Her future boss might decide to confront her on Wednesday of this week!

        But I would stick to the kind of advice from one colleague to another. Don’t play Office Mom. Don’t moralize. “It’s not professional to brag about underage drinking at work” is good to say. “Tsk tsk you broke the law” sounds goody two shoes and Rachel will tune you out.

    5. LaminarFlow*

      Yes! There’s no need to lecture anyone about the dangers of underage drinking, or what it might do to their reputation, unless you want that person to totally avoid you in the future.

      Let it go. Rachel is an adult, and she can make her own decisions.

    6. Excel-sior*

      overstepping is an argument i could get on board with, if the intern herself hadn’t told OP about having the drink.

    7. L-squared*

      I agree.

      I wouldn’t say or do anything, unless they specifically asked my advice.

      But if it was just a conversation that came up, and I wasn’t their boss or mentor, I’d just let it go. It’s not my concern, and as long as they didn’t make a fool of themselves, I would say no harm no foul

    8. Lisa*

      The learning here isn’t around not drinking underage, it’s around How To Job and workplace culture. Whether or not anything bad happend and regardless of the morality of it, doing something illegal at a company event and then telling a coworker, is a Bad Idea and will make people consider your professional judgement. That’s what the LW would focus on, not “don’t drink while underage”.

    9. Pickles*

      How about this script-oh we should have told you before the party that it’s not a drinking party and especially if you are underage.

  12. Machine*

    The issue is the toxicity of the substance. Doing pot at a company function is not allowed in most companies, and doing so, regardless of reason, would likely be a fireable offense. If the manager approves it, they will be fired for insubordination. Alcohol is toxic; consuming a consumable amount will result in drunkenness at a certain level, with a possibility for alcohol poisoning. It is true that at many functions, only a glass may be had. Toxicity is toxicity and a single 3.2 beer exceeds my level for allowed impairment at work. Employees must have ALL their faculties at ALL times while at work or a company function. It is not because of people getting drunk that alcohol at work is banned, but the impairment that comes from one 3.2 beer. The drunkenss is a symptom the impairment, is the problem

    1. Pescadero*

      ” Employees must have ALL their faculties at ALL times while at work or a company function.”

      Then you can have no employees.

      “It is not because of people getting drunk that alcohol at work is banned”

      Assertion not in evidence. Most places I’ve worked – alcohol is not banned.

    2. Statler von Waldorf*

      I disagree. I’m pretty sure the reason most companies don’t allow cannabis to be used at a work function has to due with the fact that it’s illegal at a federal level in the US and has nothing to do with how toxic it is or not.

      I live in Canada, were it’s legal. I have seen cannabis used at multiple company functions, including a Christmas party just last week, and no one got fired. As long as no one drove impaired, the company didn’t care. From what I hear the rules tend to be more strict at safety-sensitive workplaces, but as a rule, cannabis use is becoming more socially acceptable up here, including at work social events.

      I’ve even seen a Canadian company legally forced to accommodate a cannabis user. The employee had all the correct legal and medical accommodations under the law and as a result the company had a legal obligation to accommodate its use to the point of undue hardship. The boss hated that, fought it in court, and lost.

    3. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

      So – nobody can come to work if their baby has a rough night and they were up every two hours? If they have a cold and are feeling a little foggy? If they’re awaiting the results of a potentially scary medical test? There are any number of reasons why someone might not have ALL their faculties that are generally accepted as being fine for most jobs (there are obviously some exceptions), many of which will have a larger impact on most people than one beer. I’ve worked at multiple companies where there have been events during the workday that included beer. (Quarterly all hands at one place, monthly pizza lunches at another, etc). Nobody had more than one, and everything was fine.

    4. metadata minion*

      I personally shouldn’t drink even one beer at work because I have the alcohol tolerance of a hamster — and also because I hate beer — but I’m unusually sensitive to it. If you drive or do surgery or something like that you really do need absolutely all your faculties working 100%. But plenty of people have jobs where the reduced reaction time and disinhibition of one drink wouldn’t make a difference, and could even be useful for some people in creative roles.

      And I say this as someone who is baffled and concerned by the default assumption that any social function requires alcohol to be enjoyable.

      1. N C Kiddle*

        Yeah it’s a case by case thing. A bloke I dated worked as a train dispatcher and he wasn’t allowed to drink in the 18 hours immediately before a shift, so essentially he could only drink on leave. That level of strictness made perfect sense with the consequences of being impaired in that job, but would needlessly drive off good employees in other roles.

  13. OneAngryAvacado*

    If nothing else, stories like this reminds me why I find the drinking age in the US to be a bit bizarre. You’re able to do everything else – vote, enlist in the military, live on your own – but not drink alcohol? The fact that Rachel is considered adult enough to contribute to a (presumably corporate) company via her labour as an intern, but not adult enough to have a beer, is very strange to me.

      1. Sharpie*

        I thought the drinking age thing was a result of Prohibition, not the Puritans.

        But then, I’m European, what do I know! :)

        1. MerelyMe*

          It’s actually a result of the driving culture in the US. The National Minimum Age Drinking Act of 1984 said that any state that had a drinking age lower than 21 wouldn’t receive any federal funding for highways. No state was going to pass up federal money.

        2. I Have RBF*

          No, it’s the strong undercurrent of Puritanism in the US culture, plus the hand wringing of “if they drink they will drive and kill themselves” thing that puts our drinking age at 21. I remember when Congress blackmailed all the states into making the drinking age 21 by withholding highway funding from any state that didn’t increase it.

          It’s paternalistic as hell, and driving impaired is already illegal, regardless of age. But our increasingly out of touch geezer Congress treats 20-somethings like they were children, so we get a drinking age of 21. It is not likely to change with the incoming wave of hypocritical Christian-centric politicians, many of whom are likely to advocate prohibition for anyone (except themselves.)

          I would rather the emphasis be on “Don’t drive impaired!!” than “You have to be 21 to drink.”. That way all intoxicants and prescription side effects are covered, not just booze. But I’m not an oligarch to make the laws.

        3. Clisby*

          Nah, I’m 71 and when I was 18, the legal drinking age in my US state (SC) was 18 for beer and wine; 21 was only for liquor.

      1. Momma Bear*

        I had a problem where there was a lag between needing a car and my insurance paying. I had to get an over 25 friend to put it on their card temporarily. It was ridiculous.

    4. Samantha Parkington*

      You’d probably also be surprised by our driving culture. You don’t want a new driver to also be a new drinker.

      1. allathian*

        I’m in Finland, and while we have great public transit in our major cities, it’s very different in rural areas. Finland’s the 7th largest country in Europe by area, but our population is only 5.5 million, with 2 million concentrated in the southern coastal regions, so the sparsely populated rural areas are *very* sparsely populated.

        The vast majority of new drivers are also new drinkers.

    5. Kjenkers*

      This is EXACTLY how I feel, as a Canadian. You’re old enough to be attending a holiday party as a full functioning, working adult, but still need to be chaperoned? You can go overseas and fight for your country, you can buy a house, but you can’t come home from fighting for your country and enjoy a beer in your house?! It’s so infantilizing and absurd.

    7. Snoozing not schmoozing*

      There used to be states with lower drinking ages, but for some bizarre puritanical reason, it got changed to 21 in every state across the board. I was in the military and it was kind of funny that every state I was in had lower legal drinking, so I never had the big deal event of turning 21 and going for a drink. But this weird country had no problem sending 18-20 year-olds to Vietnam to get maimed or killed, but oh my, don’t ever have a drink before you go (or if you’re lucky enough to be home recovering) if you’re in a 21+ state.

      1. Katie*

        It was not really Puritanical reasons, it was because of teens driving drunk and killing themselves (or others). Non biased studies show that it has decreased it quite a bit.

        1. Clisby*

          Well … that might have been the impetus behind the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984, but from the states’ point of view, if they hadn’t raised the drinking age to 21, they’d have lost 10% of the federal highway funds they get. If a state wanted to say “screw it, we can do without 10% of our highway funding,” they could have.

          1. Wayward Sun*

            A big issue was kids in states where the drinking age was 21 driving into states where it was 18, getting drunk, and then trying to drive back. For a while it was 21 in Washington and 18 in Idaho, and the highway between Moscow, Idaho and Pullman, Washington was one of the deadliest in the country.

        2. Flor*

          Do you have links for any of those studies? I’m curious because the rate of deaths from drink driving in the UK in 2023 has dropped significantly since the late 1970s – despite the drinking age for beer, wine and cider being 16, for other alcohol 18, and the driving age 17 – due to a combination of improved car safety and anti-drink drive public safety campaigns.

          Obviously the US and UK have different drinking cultures and driving cultures, but I’m curious about these studies as I imagine it’s difficult to tease out how much the drink driving death rate has fallen due to teenagers no longer being allowed to legally drink versus improved car safety and changing public opinion about drink driving.

          2. Hastily Blessed Fritos*

            Presumably they could look at (1) relative changes in deaths from drunk driving from over-21 and under-21 drivers, and (2) relative changes in the fraction of fatal accidents that involved a drunk driver for the same age group. Certainly doable but you do need to be smart enough to not just say “hey look this number went down”.

        3. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

          There was also a major culture change about adults and driving drunk in that era. My parents competed in rally in the early 1970s all up and down the west coast, and there were some extremely stupid decisions about drinking and driving in their stories from that era made by over 21s (there were also some stupid decisions made about speed limits on the freeway between Portland and LA and using CB radios to let the car behind you know they were clear of traffic and could use all the lanes to apex a turn rather than slowing down, so…). I remember the 1980s and the MADD ribbons every NYE and the PSAs all over TV about having a designated driver, and many people’s attitudes about drunk driving in the USA really did change between the 1970s and 1980s beyond just a chance in the drinking age.

      2. Raktajino*

        The voting age used to be 21 until Vietnam, at which point it was lowered to 18. Because yes, it’s unfair to be drafted into a war you have no way to vote against.

        Of course they couldn’t simply raise the draft age, what are you, a pacifist communist? /s

    8. Immaterial*

      Oh, totally weird. The culture around legal drinking even can be so different in different countries. It does show how culturally dependant a lot of advice about professionalism can be.

    9. Seacalliope*

      Raising the drinking age has saved thousands of lives from drunk driving car accidents. There is absolutely no societal benefit within the US to a lower drinking age. Consistency with the voting age is meritless. Voting is a benefit to society and was lowered due to the enlistment age.

      1. Lab Rabbit.*

        The issue here is not drinking, but driving while drunk.

        There have been more than a handful of studies that have shown a higher drinking age leads to more binge drinking. We are merely shifting the harmful effects from one place to another.

        The more effective solution is to develop more healthy attitudes toward alcohol consumption.

        1. I Have RBF*

          What should be done is that rules against impaired driving are emphasized in drivers ed. Then again, if a person has no safe experience to know when they are impaired, it just kicks the can down the road.

          If I had my way, kids would learn this stuff at home, but we all know it doesn’t happen. So then they grow up, get out on their own, and often take their first drinks at a bar at 21, get hammered, don’t realize how impaired they are, and then drive home. Taking a hard line on “no underage drinking at all!” just kicks the disaster down the road.

        2. amoeba*

          And, you know, better public transport. Bars (or any kind of venue that’s mainly there for serving alcohol) you can literally only get to by car have always been so bizarre to me – like, what, you’re supposed to drive there to have a drink? WTF?

          It should also be much, much clearer in the media etc. that if you’ve had more than, like, half a glass of beer or wine, you’re not driving, full stop. Not just when you’re, like, black-out drunk. Just… nothing. Unfortunately that’s still also pretty common in Europe though, especially with the older generation…

        3. iglwif*

          … and have options for getting places that aren’t “get behind the wheel of a car while impaired”.

          When I was in university, people just didn’t drive to places where we were going to be drinking, because then you might be tempted to drive back while impaired. But that was only possible because we had easy access to (a) on-campus pubs we could walk to and (b) decent and nearby public transit options to get to off-campus establishments and back.

          Uni students do not want to spend their drinking money on taxis, but are very willing to take transit if it’s there!

      2. Pescadero*

        Actually… evidence shows that it probably increased drunk driving deaths, and that it actually reduced the effectiveness of other things which lowered drunk driving deaths.

        “The results of this analysis infer that raising the drinking age from 18 to 21 not only displaces mortality from the 18 to 20 to the 21 to 24 year old time period, but increases mortality caused by motor vehicle accidents in persons 18 to 24 years old.”

    10. Hlao-roo*

      I just went down an interesting little rabbit hole about the history of the US drinking age. After the appeal of Prohibition in 1933, most states set the drinking age at 21. 21 was also the voting age at the time. The voting age* was lowered to 18 in 1971, and in response many states also lowered the drinking age (some to 18, some to 19, some to 20, and some kept the drinking age at 21).

      Then, as others have mentioned, the National Minimum Drinking Age Act passed in 1984 so all the states raised the drinking age again.

      *The voting age was lowered because a lot of people were unhappy they were drafted into the Vietnam War at age 18 but weren’t legally able to vote. So there’s a long tradition of mis-matched voting/military/drinking ages in the US.

    11. Thegreatprevaricator*

      See also, the disapproval of drinking full stop vs appropriate at work behaviour. My introduction to the workplace was restaurants, bars and cafes in the Uk. Let us say there were.. different cultural norms :D . And yes, I drank underage at work events. (Work events = restaurant after hours, or the bar next door, or colleagues house.). There were a lot of problems with those workplaces but we were young people doing what young people do. I was able to adapt to a different workplace culture when I entered a different workplace context. In this it would probably be helpful for the intern to get the heads up that this particular workplace and indeed many others don’t look too favourably on drinking, when underage, then sharing it!

  14. Ellis Bell*

    I actually think this would go over better by coming back to the topic at a later date. When you shoot someone down at the very first mention, when they’re just making conversation, it can come across as too nitpicky and like you’re just responding negatively and lecturing without thinking. Bringing it up proactively can help you frame it as something you’ve given real thought to, and makes it more of a tip than a scolding. Something like “I’m sure there wasn’t any harm done, and I wasn’t even sure whether to mention it BUT you do need to know that joking about drunkenness at work can be received badly sometimes. Obviously you shouldn’t actually get drunk; one or two drinks before switching to soft drinks is a good rule of thumb. You also shouldn’t drink underage at our work events because it’s a legal liability for us, but I’m realising we should have told you that in advance. We made the decision not to serve alcohol because of your age, but we should have given you explicit advice not to drink as well – so I’m doing that now.”

    2. Raktajino*

      > we should have given you explicit advice not to drink as well

      I like this inclusion not because it was an actual misstep on the speaker’s part, but because it softens the message and puts the emphasis back on the role the poster plays in the intern’s workplace life: helping her learn workplace norms.

    3. Resentful Oreos*

      This is an excellent answer. The LW (and other full time employees) shouldn’t come across like a parent or teacher to a child, but a more seasoned professional instructing a newbie in professional norms. Which is what your advice does, and this means Rachel is more likely to accept it than roll her eyes at someone trying to be Office Parent.

    4. EDIA*

      Tbh I find it somewhat puzzling that a large thrust of this comment section is going “Rachel is an adult! Leave her alone to make her own decisions! USians are such weirdoes for their legal drinking age!” but then “Rachel’s boss should explicitly instruct her not to drink at work events” is met with (as of writing this comment) 100% approval.

      *Nothing at all against Ellis Bell, this is specifically about all the other commenters.

  15. Samantha Parkington*

    I would try to find out if a manager bought a round of drinks for everyone and no one carded Rachel before handing her one, or something like that. That kind of scenario is very different from the imagery of her ordering for herself at the bar.

    1. Lab Rabbit.*

      Literally the second paragraph:

      In planning the party, we specifically picked a non-happy-hour event and decided not to serve booze because we had an underage team member. Which means she ordered it herself.

      This sounds like it was at a restaurant or similar venue with a bar and kitchen that serves many different parties, and nobody at the bar thought to card someone who wasn’t legally old enough to purchase and consume alcohol.

      1. Samantha Parkington*

        The LW is just guessing at that. I was providing another guess. Not serving booze at tables doesn’t mean the CEO can’t order a round of drinks.

        2. Irish Teacher.*

          I mean, it’s possible but it seems extremely unlikely both that the CEO would buy enough drinks for her to get really drunk, especially as the company made a point of not serving drinks so as not to put her in that position and that she would then boast about it.

          If it were a case of her feeling pressured into drinking, I would imagine she’d be more uncomfortable with it.

          Plus, it’s just…generally more likely that somebody bought their own drinks than that they were all bought for them and I wouldn’t start investigating whether she was pressured into drinking by a manager unless there was something to suggest that.

  16. Laura*

    My follow up question to Alison’s advice is how do you end that conversation? After saying “I know you might be used to contexts where underage drinking isn’t a big deal, but it’s different at work.” how do you minimize the awkward? Asking for confirmation such as “Does that make sense?/Do you have any questions?” feels like putting the recipient on the spot. Is “I know it can be awkward getting feedback, but happy to discuss more later if you have any questions” with a kind smile then walking away ok if they don’t make a move to respond? Should I have a change of subject planned to pivot to after? Trying not to let anxiety keep me silent.

    1. Zona the Great*

      Honestly, you can’t minimize the awkward and I’d argue it should be a bit awkward for the intern. But it is good to get practice at delivering a correction and even a consequence while not internalizing any of the emotions about it.

  17. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    Definitely a cultural difference regarding drinking here (UK) but I wouldn’t lecture someone on this nor ban drinking at company events.

    What I would do is have a very quiet word in private about being careful about who they tell it to. Ordering a beverage when you’re older is really not noteworthy at all so by drawing attention to it you’re kinda outing yourself. Obviously if they got absolutely plastered that’s a definite no no regardless of age.

    There’s also the very subtle ‘please don’t do stuff that’ll get the company into trouble’ thing which is like asking someone to not post problematic stuff on social media with the company name attached to their profile.

  18. Forgetaboutit*

    Let it go. If she’s old enough to enlist in the armed forces and risk her life for our Closest Ally then she’s old enough to drink.

      1. Forgetaboutit*

        Do you really think I don’t know that? I’m obviously making a distinction between what the law says and what OP’s approach, based on common sense, ought to be.

        1. Lab Rabbit.*

          Breaking the law at work doesn’t seem very professional to me, especially for an intern. Bragging about it isn’t much better.

          The point of an internship is to learn professional norms.

        2. metadata minion*

          I agree that our drinking age laws are absurd, but bragging about breaking the law at work is generally a bad idea, and outside of very specific fields and/or events getting drink at work functions is unprofessional. If she were doing this as an act of civil disobedience to protest US alcohol policy then…well, that seems like a bizarre choice of venue for that sort of thing, but ok, you do you, and if you’re doing that sort of protest you should be aware of the consequences. But she wasn’t doing that — she was just being blase about underage drinking and drunkenness, probably being used to college drinking culture, and it would be a kindness to have a quiet word with her.

          To put it in terms of something I’d actually do, if I’m coming in to work in more casual clothing than the dress code specifies because I believe strongly that the code is sexist and unnecessary and I do better work when I’m actually comfortable, that’s a choice that I’m making. But if I’m just a bit oblivious and maybe nobody’s explicitly told me the dress code to begin with, I’d appreciate it if someone told me so that I could decide how much I care about wearing comfortable shoes.

  19. LifebeforeCorona*

    You would be doing her a favour if you spoke to her about underage drinking especially since it is illegal. Here, any establishment serving her can be fined or lose their license for a short period of time or permanently.

  20. Ms. Murchison*

    AAM’s statement that it’s not normal to get drunk at work events makes me chuckle a bit and remember my first professional event — a librarian conference where I was shocked to see grown adults getting completely smashed at the West (now Thompson Reuters) reception with an open bar. Me and another recently graduate stood on the sidelines unsure what to do with ourselves.

  21. Resentful Oreos*

    First off, Rachel should read the “I Will Confront You Wednesday Of This Week” letter to see what happens when people get hammered at a work function.

    I think that the line LW is trying to walk is “how to advise intern of professional norms without coming across as a scolding authority figure talking to a child.” So, telling Rachel that it’s not a good idea to brag about underage drinking at work, or to drink underage at work, is a good idea. Frame it in terms of professionalism, not “tsk tsk you broke the LAW!” Putting it as “this will help you in jobs going forward” is much better. And there’s lots of material on AAM as to what happens when people have one too many at the office party. I am sure Rachel doesn’t want to be known as That Intern who barfed on the boss or whatever.

    If the problem is underage interns were served liquor at the party, then either have alcohol-free parties or institute an ID system. Don’t make employees police the interns! That’s bad for morale and trust and cohesion. And, just speaking for myself, I have better things to do at office parties than play Dorm Monitor or House Mom or whatever. I don’t want to ride herd on under-21 interns so they don’t drink. That’s not my job. It’s the company’s job to make sure the underage interns don’t get served liquor. (It’s also extremely annoying when someone is old enough to work but not old enough to drink!) It might be my job to advise Rachel of professional norms, but it’s not my job to police her behavior.

    1. HonorBox*

      Agree with paragraphs 1 & 2. Regarding the third… this wasn’t an event that featured alcohol. So the venue fudged up by allowing Rachel to drink at all, and honestly they’re very lucky there wasn’t some problem for them. Those fines are significant most places. Rachel also fudged up by going to find booze. Which leads to the agreement with your initial statements. If this is presented as coaching versus a lecture, this is going to come across better. Honestly I think the fact that the LW didn’t react in the moment gives them a better shot at phrasing everything as coaching.

  22. Angstrom*

    “In planning the party, we specifically picked a non-happy-hour event and decided not to serve booze because we had an underage team member. ”

    Having the intern not drink was important to LW’s company. Regardless of how we feel about it, that’s the environment that the LW and intern work in. It is perfectly reasonable to make the intern aware that she is violating her employer’s policies.

  23. It's Marie - Not Maria*

    I was at a non-work related social event years ago, where a 14 year old (who did not look 14, they looked much older) managed to convince their divorced parents that they were at the other parent’s house. This individual managed to convince the people at this event they were old enough to drink legally, and then got completely blotto – to the point of alcohol poisoning, as we later found out. This is where I had to come in as one of the Event Staff. Once we figured out the individual wasn’t a registered event participant, we had to figure out who they were, and how to contact their parents (this was before cell phones were so prevalent). We finally managed to get Grandma’s phone number out of them, and were able to contact Grandma. She came to the event site, got the Minor, and apparently took them to the hospital. We ended up getting a formal apology from the parents later the next day. This could have turned out much worse, and caused liability for not only our organization, but the Historic Site which was hosting the event.

    Some Minors are going to find ways to drink no matter what. Doesn’t matter if it is a work or a social setting.

  24. Ed 'Massive Aggression' Teach*

    I know, I know, different countries and all that, but it is VERY mindf*cky to read this very serious concern about a 21yo drinking while watching a documentary about a school for kids with SEND (Special Educational Needs and Disabilities) where the teachers are taking the oldest pupils to the pub and clubbing…

  25. WoodswomanWrites*

    When I was in college and in my first jobs, the legal drinking age was 18 so I never personally encountered this as an adult. More recently, I have been to work events with alcohol where high school students were invited as presenters, and our staff did an excellent job of prepping them in advance that drinking was absolutely not allowed.

  26. I Have RBF*

    IMO, the issue isn’t with drinking per se, it is with doing so at a public place in violation of the statutory drinking age in a way that could get the company and the venue in trouble, and then bragging about it. That is what the intern needs to be coached about.

    I managed to get served once (a long time ago) when I was 17 and looked 21. I did not make a big thing about it. I didn’t point it out to anyone. I didn’t even mention it to anyone until I was over 21.

    I don’t agree with the 21 drinking age. But that didn’t mean I was willing to get a venue or an organization in trouble for bragging about being served.

    BTW, I’m 63 now.

  27. Irish Teacher.*

    And even apart from the illegality, I also…don’t really think it’s wise for an intern to get really drunk at a work event. They haven’t established a reputation yet and will be looking for work and/or a reference down the line and they don’t really want to be remembered as “the intern that got really drunk at the staff party/work event.”

    When I was a student teacher, one of my fellow student teachers was really drunk at the staff party, to the point that one of the younger, qualified teachers and I were busy avoiding him. The Higher Diploma in Education was a post-graduate course and the drinking age in Ireland is 18 (and we have a way more laidback attitude to underage drinking than the US seems to and it was even more laidback back then), so we were well over the drinking age (we were around 22 or 23) but it still struck me as a bad idea and not really the way to make a good impression. There were a couple of actual staff members who got really drunk too (and honestly, that is what sticks in my mind about one of those staff members) but they had been working in the school for years, had permanent jobs so wouldn’t have to apply for a job and were already known as “the teacher who gives up a lot of their time to train our sports team” or “the teacher whose students always get good grades in the exams” or “the teacher who had great discipline” or “the go-to person for resources on X.”

    A student teacher who was working a couple of hours a week in the school for one year doesn’t have that and it’s far more likely he’ll be remembered as “the guy who got really drunk to the point people were avoiding him.” And if a vacancy came up in the school down the line, that…isn’t exactly what you want your interviewers to be thinking of you as.

    So yeah, I think the LW would be doing the intern a favour by letting her know that even if an event involves socialising, it still contributes to your “worksona” and how you are perceived and that at work, at least when you are new to a workplace and aren’t familiar with the culture, it’s better to come across as professional than as “great craic” (good fun).

    There are workplaces where getting really drunk would make you seem more like “one of the gang” and possibly increase your chances of a permanent job, but firstly, it doesn’t seem like this workplace is one and secondly, as a young professional, you are better off not banking on that.

  28. CorporateDrone*

    This reminds me of a moment where a colleague was telling a funny story about dealing with a house issue and casually mentioned breaking the law as part of the narrative (I think details would be recognizable so can’t elaborate further). I was all…. “Um you probably shouldn’t be making us all accessories to your life of crime” and although I pitched it as a joke I definitely got the point across that it wasn’t a good idea to boast about breaking the law in a professional context and I followed up later when it came up as to why that particular legislation exists etc. But definitely was quite taken aback that coworker felt comfortable enough to fess up without any kind of acknowledgement of doing something wrong. Coworker definitely not an intern either.

Comments are closed.