should I demote an employee who can’t do her job?

by Alison Green on December 18, 2024

A reader writes:

I have a staff member who was promoted beyond her capability. I have tried coaching her, and she simply does not have the skill or aptitude required for the job. I do think she could work in her original role — but to have the budget to replace her, she would need to take a significant pay cut. Is this ever advisable?

My instinct tells me it should be avoided because it runs the risk of causing bitterness, bad attitude, etc. But it feels unkind to fire someone because of how I guess she might respond.

I answer this question — and three others — over at Inc. today, where I’m revisiting letters that have been buried in the archives here from years ago (and sometimes updating/expanding my answers to them). You can read it here.

Other questions I’m answering there today include:

  • How can my company let candidates know we’ll accommodate their religious needs?
  • If I give bigger gifts this year, am I setting a precedent?
  • Alerting contacts’ kids to career opportunities
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{ 46 comments }

{ 46 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. metadata minion*

    #4 — Unfortunately, a cold call like this is going to sound an awful lot like some kind of scam if the kid doesn’t recognize your name. “I’m a long-time family friend who you’ve never heard of [which isn’t weird in itself, just that this is the sort of thing scammers use to convince to trust them] who wants to tell you about an exciting opportunity” would also have me hanging up the phone. Normally the advice would be to contact a young adult directly rather than going through their parents, but in this case either having them mediate setting up the call or just passing on the information will be much less weird.

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      1. RC*

        Yeah, and isn’t it also a thing where they pretend they think you’re specifically someone else, so when you’ll be “sorry wrong number” and then they know they’ve got someone (anyone) who will respond and they can go into the usual scam spiel? (At least that’s why I’ve ignored texts from random numbers like that).

        Email is far better— provide a link to the website so they can check it out on their own time and see it’s legit (if it’s of interest). You can always also say “I’m happy to schedule a brief chat via phone if that’s easier” but I think millennials and later probably don’t take people up on that much, heh.

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        1. Snow Globe*

          I would never click on a link in an email from someone I don’t know. In this case, it’s probably best to send the info to the parents, who can forward it to their kid, then leave it to him to follow up if he’s interested.

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          1. new laptop who dis*

            Solid GenX here, I would *never* cold call someone my own age, much less a Gen Z!!! I’m shocked the guy even answered the phone.

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          2. Venus*

            I think that was the implication. Emails are much easier to forward so better to send to the parent and they can forward.

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          4. Mouse*

            Sure, but if I got an email with a link to what looked like relevant career info from someone who claims to be a family friend, I’d probably at least ask my parents if they know the person!

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          5. epicdemiologist*

            Chalk me up as another vote for “send the info (with link) to the parents”. They’re the ones you actually know!

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            1. Overthinking It*

              Why not send to both: Dear Eufemia: Here’s a link to the program I was telling you about for Jeffrey. I called the number you gave me but we got cut off, and I couldn’t get back through.) Hope you and Charles are well and safe in NC – I love Mississippi, but do miss all the fun we had back in DC IN ’91 -’93!” And you cc Jeffrey, of course!

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              1. Margaret Cavendish*

                This is a good idea for next time, but I wouldn’t recommend OP do anything more with this one. They’re a stranger to the son, and he already thought it was spam or a sales call. And it’s not even OP’s project – they only found out about it themselves from a mass marketing campaign! So it’s a pretty weak lead to begin with, and I think OP would seem weirdly over-invested if they bring it up again.

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    2. Ama*

      Yes, there are a lot of people in my hometown who know my parents and recognize my name but who I would not know who in the world they are, and I would absolutely think a call like that was a scam unless my parents had told me in advance to expect it. I might think an email was too, tbh, but at least with an email I would have time to ask my parents if they knew who this person was.

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    3. Caramel & Cheddar*

      It definitely sounds like a scam, but also… I don’t think this needed to be a phone call at all even if the kid recognized the LW’s name!

      I think LW overstepped here. Maybe LW is super familiar with the ins and outs of the leadership program, but from the way they found out about it, it doesn’t sound like something they have a personal connection to where they can vouch for the quality of the program, so I’m not sure why anything other than a courtesy heads up to the parent was necessary. I presume LW wasn’t actively running the program where a more hands-on approach to recruitment would be warranted, so this is something where an email forward is absolutely sufficient.

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      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Definitely doesn’t need to be a phone call. I hate phone calls. Especially people I don’t know calling out of the blue.

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        1. Lisa*

          I don’t even answer unknown numbers (unless I’m expecting a callback from a construction contractor or someone). Leave a voicemail and if you’re a real person who I actually want/need to hear from I’ll call you back.

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          1. Sneaky Squirrel*

            This is where I landed. 100% unsurprised the son thought it was spam. I’m surprised the friend’s son even answered the phone. I never answer unknown numbers unless I’m expecting a call back.

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      2. Jennifer Strange*

        To be fair, it sounds like the LW asked for an email and was given a phone number, but in their shoes I would have said I preferred an email. Actually, I likely would have given the parents the info and my email and had their son reach out if he was interested/had questions, that way it’s completely in his court.

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        1. Caramel & Cheddar*

          Yep, that would have been my approach too. “Please forward this to Linus Junior and feel free to give him my email if he wants to chat about it.” But I also dislike endless back and forth, so I almost always prefer to give them everything they need up front and then leave the ball in their court so that I can forget about it entirely unless they reach out again.

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        2. Smithy*

          I think this approach is likely best – but I also think that if the OP had the email for the parent and child you could treat it like other referrals where you directly email the adult child and then cc the parent. Essentially saying “I reached out to your parent, who said you might be interested in this XYZ”.

          On any follow-up communication you can drop the parent – but it’s likely going to help avoiding email spam and also pings the parent that you did reach out in case they want to follow up.

          How involved parents are or are not in their young adult children’s professional lives is all over the map, so I understand the OP trying to avoid potential issues. But ultimately this is a case of mixing professional networking (OP to parent) to personal networking (parent to child). And completely trying to cut out that personal part isn’t entirely necessary.

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        3. KateM*

          The friend gratefully sent the son’s info, including his phone number, so I thought, “It’ll be easier to do a quick chat and then forward him the information,” even though I’ve never spoken to him before.

          To me this sounds like the friend did send the e-mail that OP originally asked for but also phone number, and it was OP who decided that they prefer phone.

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        4. Margaret Cavendish*

          Yes, this. And I hope the son had a word with his parents about giving out his contact info without his consent!

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    4. LL*

      Absolutely. I’m a full-fledged adult and I wouldn’t trust someone saying they were a family friend if I didn’t recognize the name and hadn’t been given a heads up from my parents. Also, I’d be immediately suspicious of a phone call rather than an email.

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    5. MotherofaPickle*

      I’m over 40 and screening my calls is a default. I don’t answer any unknown number except for the school district (they have their own prefix).

      OP overstepped in their enthusiasm to help. An email, or even telling the parent to have the kid contact them, would have been better.

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    6. RedinSC*

      Yeah, I think just having the parent pass along the info, and include your contact info for the kid to reach out to would be better.

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      1. Elbe*

        Agreed. At its core, I don’t think that this is an email vs. phone issue.

        Reaching out via email would have been helpful in the sense that the kid could have verified with his parents before responding, as opposed to having to respond in the moment. But, ultimately, the real issue is that no intro was made. Even in professional scenarios, there’s usually an introduction made prior to the parties talking 1:1.

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  2. Saturday*

    It would have been nice if the parent had given their kid a heads up that they gave out their number. That would have made this whole thing less weird.

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  3. Tuesday Tacos*

    Cold calling like that would make me think spam. Next time, send an email to the parent and copy their son in, and say something like – “Joe, this is the info I thought your son might be interested in.” and maybe address the son directly also by then telling him who you are.
    I get many emails from friends who want to introduce me to others for networking purposes and it always follows a similar format and doesn’t make me suspicious!

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  4. Rick Tq*

    Sorry OP#4 but you tripped almost every warning flag you were a scam call, and nothing you can do now will change that impression. Don’t try to get his parents to vet your information after the fact, that will make it look even more like a social engineering attack.

    Your best bet in the future is send this kind of career information to his parents for them to forward on.

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    1. Saturday*

      I don’t think it’s true that there’s nothing that can change the impression now. All it would take is for the parent to go, “Oh right, I gave LW your info and didn’t mention it.”

      I mean, it probably makes sense to drop it at this point, but I don’t think setting things straight would be complicated. The parent has already asked the LW about the son moving to their area, and the parent would probably be embarrassed about how all this went down.

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  5. Fíriel*

    I’m glad the kid in OP#4’s letter has good spam call-avoiding instincts even if they happened to misfire in this instance. Better to be over-cautious than to end up giving out personal information or wiring money to a scammer.

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    1. Sara without an H*

      True. I’ve adjusted the settings on my phone so that it only rings if the incoming call is from somebody in my contacts list. I did this after a rash of spam calls and I’ve never regretted it.

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  6. H3llifIknow*

    Demotion: Unless she’s completely lacking in self-awareness, the employee is probably also feeling she’s not doing great and is floundering. I’ve had these conversations with employees who excelled in position A, got promoted and floundered in position B for no fault of their own. Just not a fit. I usually start the convo with “So, how do YOU feel position B is going?” And I’ve almost always gotten, “Harder than I expected,” “I had hoped to be better at XYZ than it appears I am” “I didn’t accomplish what I had hoped/expected,” etc.. and those are great launching pads for the “do you think more time will help fill in the gaps/does it make sense to you to stay in position B? You excelled in position A, and we’d be ecstatic to have you back in that role, but it would require downgrading your pay to where it was,” (or a little higher to balance out the demotion is nice). I’ve had some say, “I’d love to go back to A” and some say, “I’d like to stay in B a while longer” but they almost always end up leaving within a few weeks or so when that happens. Just my two cents/unasked for advice :)

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      2. fhqwhgads*

        Sure, but the point is it still makes sense to ask or raise it. If the options are “demoted back to oldRole with oldPay or you’re fired”, let the person choose. Even if 95% don’t choose the demotion, there’s little risk to presenting the options. Or if there is some person-specific reason to consider the options a risk, well then they’re not actually both options in that case, and the decision’s made.

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      3. Decidedly Me*

        I’ve had 2 people that have. They were unhappy in the new roles and not performing well. They liked their prior roles and the company as a whole, so they were happier staying at an earlier salary than hating their new roles and/or getting fired for performance issues.

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    2. Vique*

      It depends SO much on the person. I currently have an employee, a grown up middle-aged woman, that is convinced that she is doing a great job, despite multiple talks my management with examples and ‘come to Jesus’ talk by HR.
      We wish and hope that people are self-aware but is it very much not a given.

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  7. Bast*

    In most cases, I believe if someone is demoted you’re going to have to start planning to replace them, as I would expect the individual to begin job hunting. They may not quit on the spot, but I’d almost expect them to be gone the second they find something else. The exception I can see is perhaps in cases where someone has entered into a management role and has discovered they actually hate managing and are relieved to go back to a non-management role. As long as they otherwise are happy within the company, that person may stay.

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  8. Sneaky Squirrel*

    #1 – Does the company even need an employee in the original role and/or would the company still need someone in this role if the staff member gets demoted? I think it would be a kindness to test the waters and see if the employee feels the same way about her work and/or has any interest in a demotion, but only if you actually need that work done.

    I would also step back and examine how the promotion criteria lead her to being in this position she was unqualified for in the first place. Sometimes it’s hard to know and maybe that’s all it was in her case, but there should be some measurement indicators that the company is using to gauge whether a promotee is ready to take on the higher role. I’ve worked with managers rush and push to promote their staff as soon as possible because they like the idea of recognizing their staff with awards and accolades, but it only does the staff member a disservice if they’re put in a role that they’re not suited for.

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  9. Elbe*

    I agree that whether or not the demotion is a good idea hinges on the employee’s assessment of how she’s doing in the new role. If she doesn’t see the issues as severe, the demotion will probably cause bad blood. If everyone’s on the same page about this not working out, then there is more hope.

    Also, the LW should look into why this person was promoted in the first place. Misevaluating an internal candidate’s capabilities to this degree should be a very rare thing. I’ve seen this happen a few times, and almost always there is a larger issue within the company. Either people are being promoted due to popularity or personal connections, or the company has a lax approach to hiring that amounts to “you seem smart – try doing xyz job.” It’s not fair to anyone to place people in roles they are not suited for and where they risk being fired.

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  10. Not your typical admin*

    #4 – not surprised at this at all. The only time my 18 year old answers the phone for an unexpected number is to play with the spam/scam person.

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    1. Margaret Cavendish*

      This is a bit of a tangent, but did you know that most of the time the people on the phone are not the actual scammers? Usually they’re working for the scammers, and often being coerced in some way – often they’re the victims of human trafficking. So it can feel very satisfying in the moment to “play” with the person, or yell at them or blow a whistle in their ear etc – but ultimately it’s just adding to the abuse.

      Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/12/10/1218401565/online-scamming-human-trafficking-interpol

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  11. Anon for a reason*

    My former manager demoted two of my peers to report to me (in separate actions, not in one swell foop), in both cases it worked out. Their roles changed from managing a team to being individual contributors, and they were both able to focus on their work and do good jobs. Both were late career with huge amounts of useful experience, and both would have found it hard to move into a similar level job elsewhere. The big thing: We did NOT cut their pay! One of them retired in a couple of years with about the same pay, the other no longer reports to me but is still working for us and doing well. Demotion + pay cut is a whole new level, I would think long and hard before doing that.

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  12. Random Academic Cog*

    The only times I’ve personally seen a demotion work well have involved them keeping the higher pay (one case has resulted in me – who works in a different department – explaining to new leadership 4 times now why this one employee is paid more than everyone else on her level) or them leaving and coming back later in a lower position. It’s definitely a tricky situation.

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