update: my boss says I should always be available on my days off

by Alison Green on December 26, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

Remember the letter-writer whose boss said they should always be available on their days off? Here’s the update.

Thank you very much for responding to my letter in the first place. As a sort of “Easter egg,” it’s actually the second time you’ve answered one of my letters! The first one I wrote was years ago — I was early in my career and asked how to know whether you want to be a manager. You opened that one up to the readers who gave me a lot of really interesting perspective, and so the update there is that I, obviously, eventually became a manager, and I think I’m good at it (probably thanks in part to the years I have spent reading your advice!). Mentoring is an aspect of my job that I genuinely enjoy — but the downside is what drove me to write the second letter, about being “always on.”

I started to write you an update earlier in the year during your first call for updates, but honestly … it bummed me out. It has been a really hard year. The kind of hard that makes you question whether you’re in the right career. (I didn’t know that was a symptom of burnout until I went to a “lunch and learn” on stress and burnout at work. The seminar leaders suggested exercise and meditation. HELPFUL, THANKS.)

On the vacation I alluded to in my letter, I got engaged! The first three days of the trip were quiet, but I did have to spend about two hours working later in the trip (and frankly, it was a waste of time — I was prepping someone to deal with an important issue, but they ended up kicking the can until I got back). My company does the thing that I suspect most companies do — they talk a really good game about well-being and work/life balance, but it’s a talking point, not a reality for most people.

My boss has continued to demonstrate through words and actions that they place little stock in PTO. I just think it’s something we will always disagree on. I support my direct reports in taking ALL available PTO (what we can roll over is limited) and being fully unplugged, and I try to support peers both directly (by offering to cover work) and indirectly (by being loudly supportive of taking time off). If I have to be “that person” at my company, so be it. This is a hill I am willing to die on.

I recently had a frank conversation with our general counsel about no longer being sure that I wanted to continue in this career. The slightly panicked response I received suggests to me that I was being considered for a promotion next year, if I wanted it. Genuinely not sure if I want it. Genuinely have looked into going into a specific associate’s degree program because I think it would be fun and some days, I’m really tired of corporate life — and then, the very next day I find myself day dreaming about how I would do things when I have my boss’s job someday and I brainstorm ways to be more efficient and less stressed at work.

In summary, I might be having a midlife crisis? I’m trying not to rush into any decisions — I want any changes I make to be about running TOWARD something I’m excited about, not running away. Right now, I’m excited about things that would lead me to getting off the bullet train — and struggling with feeling like I “should” want to be trying to drive it, not getting off. Also, it’s scary to stop chasing the thing I’ve been chasing for a very, very long time.

So, more to come. Someday I hope I’ll write back with a more positive, or at least decisive, or if nothing else, succinct update! But in the meantime, I continue to appreciate the thoughtful and pragmatic advice you continue to dole out. Thank you.

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{ 33 comments }

{ 33 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. DrSalty*

    Thank you for being “that person!” Especially as a mentor and a leader at your company. That’s how cultures change.

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  2. Djs*

    “The slightly panicked response I received suggests to me that I was being considered for a promotion next year, if I wanted it. “. Don’t place any stock in this unless they’re willing to promote you now, like within the next two weeks.

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      2. Roland*

        Why do you think that? OP talks about being torn between getting off the train and moving towards the driver’s seat so imo it’s a very relevant response.

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    2. TJ*

      Would love more thoughts on this, as while not OP, I have a promotion being dangled next year that I suspect is a false carrot.

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      1. Mad Harry Crewe*

        Nothing is real until it is real.

        Hints are not real. Hopes are not real. Suggestions are not real. Good intentions, while really nice, are not a real job. Your current boss’s big talk is not real.

        A job offer, with explicit duties, compensation, and start date, is real. Everything before that is hot air. Some hot air does, in fact, precede something real! A lot of it doesn’t. Talk is cheap, but delivering on promises takes a lot more effort, and sometimes some luck.

        Match effort. If someone is saying nice things about your future or your current work, lovely! Match effort: say nice things back. “That sounds like a really cool opportunity, what kind of timeline are you looking at?” But don’t put your life on hold – that’s way more effort, I guarantee your management is not putting their work on hold for your timeline. Don’t depend on nice words to turn into real things like job offers or promotions.

        Take care of yourself. If you are offered a choice, make the choice that you’ll feel solid on, even if things don’t pan out. If you’re asked to pass up an amazing opportunity for a (non-real, non-solid, theoretical, hopeful, possible, non-specific, future) even more amazing opportunity: consider! How will you feel if you pass up Opportunity 1 and nothing comes of Opportunity 2? If you’re ok with that, great! But if not, probably don’t do it. Sometimes things don’t line up. If they really wanted you for Amazeballs Opportunity Number Two, they’d make it work.

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  3. Tradd*

    Very timely post for me. Just went back and read the original letter. I’m a customs broker and often do stuff at home on the weekends (urgent air freight shipments that need customs clearances). I’m currently on vacation from 12/24 through 1/2. This is my first vacation in two years that is more than a long weekend. Our PTO is use it or lose it and I only get two weeks. On Tuesday (Christmas Eve and first day of vacation), I got a panicked text at 4pm from one of our salesmen that a customer needed something looked up in the system. The office had closed at noon and no one was answering him, but customer was still working. I simply reminded him I was on vacation, plus I wasn’t home and so unable to logon. I was home, but I’ve gotten a little sick of u reasonable demands and so politely pushed back. My counterpart who is working today got the salesman what he needed first thing this morning when the office reopened. I get along well with this salesman, but just because he works 24/7, doesn’t mean I have to. Felt really good to maintain a boundary.

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    1. It's not urgent*

      congratulations! I held a boundary similarly, some colleagues felt something was urgent and said they were willing to meet during their time off to take care of it. I disagreed about the urgency, gave them my next availability (in the new year) and said they could meet without me before if they wanted. I’ll see them next week and am unplugged in the meantime.

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  4. JSPA*

    If they are panicked at the thought of you leaving, you have leverage to put your foot down about taking your PTO–and also about being able to fully disconnect during that PTO.

    Why not make it explicit to them that your (and thus their) choices are, “business as usual, but I will almost certainly be burning out and leaving with no ability to predict when” or “Using my full PTO to fully recharge, without interruptions, so I can rediscover my energy, enthusiasm and full function.”

    Having you out of contact for a couple of weeks from time to time is far less disruption than having you leave in a burnout scenario where you’re physically and mentally unable to help substantively plan for any transition.

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    1. The OP*

      I do have leverage, but there’s not really a need to make this (more) explicit. I manage my boundaries most directly through negotiating priorities and deliverables and setting expectations directly with my internal clients and team. No one is tracking my log-ins or writing me up for letting calls go to voicemail. this is more an issue of political capital that has intangible impacts, like fighting the perception of being less of a “team player” or “less hungry” for development. I’m fighting cultural expectations set both by company and by the legal industry in a world where people in general increasingly expect instant responses due to technology, and as discussed in the first post, the expectation seems to get stronger the higher you climb the ladder. Can you be a CEO who also is totally unplugged for a week? Maybe, maybe not – and the question for me really has been, how far down do you need to be for that to be a realistic reality.

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      1. BigLawEx*

        Is there anyone, though? All the young associates/in-house folks are supposed to be so hungry for opportunities to learn/for advancement, and post 2000s Blackberries – always on. And everyone else is ‘too important’ to disconnect.

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      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Lunch n Learns are usually bring your own lunch and optional.

        I’m torn on whether this was gall – I absolutely need my lunch time to decompress, but for people who are less introverted, it seems to be ok.

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        1. Cara*

          TBF, both the one’s I attended had lunch provided however, my lunch break was unpaid.

          I think there’s a painful irony in having a seminar designed to combat stress and burnout and scheduling it during a time that should be considered free for the employees to spend how they please. If staff burnout was legitimately a priority then carving out some actual time during the working day seems like a more appropriate solution.

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    3. The OP*

      is it better or worse that they also offer an option outside of business hours? :)

      No lunch provided (I am remote anyway), but they are totally optional and intended to be a true resource for employees, not just one more commitment. our company is global, so in all seriousness, there options to attend at random times that may or may not be a real “lunch” for everyone. The hourly employees I manage are welcome to count this within their hours; I’m not sure what the “official” policy on this is, but I imsgine it would be the same for everyone as long as people work with their manager to ensure coverage (for people in customer support roles).

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  6. Retirednow*

    Tl:dr it’s OK to move away from something and not just to something.

    I totally get you want to go toward something and not away from something. However, I wanted to share a different perspective – I was laid off in 2008 in our big downturn here in the Bay Area. I literally could not find a job to save my life so I went back to graduate school just because I needed something to do and my husband was working so could support us for the time.

    He lost his job about a year into my program and I had to decide whether to stick with it or not. I did and we did and it turned out OK, and I wound up on a third career of teaching at university.

    It’s not something I would’ve predicted could happen and it wasn’t something I was moving towards my graduate degree was in creative writing, which I’d always wanted to pursue. So I was going towards something, but it wasn’t like I had a plan of what I would do and I definitely didn’t know you could teach with that degree.

    I wound up spending the last 12 years of my career teaching at the university my degree is from, and wound up with a decent pension and health benefits. But I never would’ve predicted that when I applied to graduate school in desperation for something to do .

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    1. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

      I think maybe you misunderstand the phrase? “Run toward something, not away from something” doesn’t even seem applicable in your story.

      It means to quit your job because you’re excited to become a welder, not because you hate your boss at your chemistry job. The purpose of the advice is to remind people that blindly running away from something bad will often put you in a similarly bad or worse position.

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      1. Plate of Wings*

        I think Retirednow is saying the opposite of the usual advice: running away from something isn’t so bad sometimes. Yes it can lead to impulsive decisions and a new bad position, but for Retirednow (and maybe OP?) being a bit aimless for a while might be the best way to get on a new path.

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  7. Jules the 3rd*

    Oh, I feel ya on the possible mid-life crisis. I’m three years into mine, and I’m actually enjoying it. The main part is a yearning to recapture how good life felt when I was much younger. It’s possible to do that without destroying your current life, but it takes thought, support, and compromise.

    – I traveled a *lot* in a car back in the day. So the last three years, I have taken 4ish long weekends / year where I drive a long time, stop and do nothing for a day or two, then drive home. My husband takes full care of the dependents while I’m gone, and I offer him the same ‘free from responsibilities’ time.
    – I was burnt out in my job, got laid off in April, and took the opportunity to switch careers into small / local government. I’d considered a Public Admin major in college, and applying to jobs was revelatory – I did not want any corporate jobs, but the exact same job in govt got a fast application.

    My recommendation for OP is:
    – Think back to what reminds you of happy times in your youth and find a way to do variations of it. Test out a few things, and do what feels good. Do it periodically for a year, at least.
    – Take one full-week vacation that includes one very low stress period, at least two nights. Not just a staycation, because there’s always home chores, and not a destination trip where you have to cram in sights to make it ‘worthwhile’, but some thing where you get away from home and spend a day doing nothing but what you feel like doing that day. Beaches are good for that in the summer, for example.
    – Update your resume’, look at some job listings, and apply to a couple. Think about how you feel about each one. Imagine applying for a job at your current place that would be a promotion, and how does that feel? You can’t test drive actual jobs, but at this stage of life, we’re familiar enough with the options that we just need an excuse for spending time studying them, which applications provide.

    Good luck, and have fun. I am not as exuberant as I was in my 20s, but I have recaptured some silliness, and my husband is enjoying that. He likes me *because* I’m weird, and the weird is BACK.

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  8. Name*

    A book I’m in the middle of is Midlife by Kieran Setiya. Haven’t finished it but it’s good so far. It’s about reconciling the life you’ve lived, accepting the things you didn’t or couldn’t do, failing isn’t bad, choices are overrated, etc. It’s also a short book and quickish read. Might help with the stage you’re at in life.

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  9. Mostly Managing*

    It’s ok to want one thing and pursue it for your entire career.
    It’s also ok to want something, pursue it for a while, and then decide you want something else instead/more.
    It’s ok to decide you’ve had as many promotions as you want, and to stay at the same level for a while /for the rest of your career.

    There’s no “right way” to manage your career, there’s just… what do you want to do next?
    (I highly recommend a *written* pros and cons list in this situation – it really helps to see it all laid out on a page. Are there twice as many pros as cons? Does one of the cons cancel out all the pros? Take your time making the list!)

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  10. BigLawEx*

    I think the thing I hated most about practicing law was the idea that people were doing it for the love of the job. More than half of my law school class no longer practices. Every single one of them declared how much they loved the law.

    I hated it from the day I stepped into law school and was a bit vilified for that.

    But constantly being on burned them out. It’s a profession that’s always churning out new people, so there are always replacements. I wish it had a better work/life balance, though. There are so few instances where there are true emergencies. And even then, I’d tell my clients that maybe 911 would do a better job (tongue only half in cheek).

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    1. BigLawEx*

      Also doctors as well. I’m Gen X and I only know one or two who are still in medicine. (Covid accelerated many friends’ exits.)

      In the US we always talk about how we need doctors and sometimes lawyers (though mainly for those who can’t afford them), but really only reward those who are willing to constantly be working. It feels unsustainable.

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    2. Also Former BigLaw*

      Funny, what I always found so strange about BigLaw was the number of partners who never retired — they had virtually no identity separate from their practice, so why not be constantly available to clients? I guess they did actually love the law. I personally didn’t love the expectation of being available 24/7 but I also felt that it was part of the high compensation. I always referred to my salary as “hazard pay.” For an in-house position like the OP, I’d be a lot less willing to put up with that expectation of constant availability. I actually left an in-house position at an exciting start-up that offered the 24/7 availability requirements of BigLaw but compensation in basically worthless stock options. I went back to BigLaw where at least there was actual monetary compensation offered for the terrible lifestyle, but I knew exactly what trade-off I was making. And I saved my pennies to retire early because I knew I wasn’t interested in maintaining that lifestyle for another several decades (20 years was enough).

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  11. JR*

    This is an insightful update, OP. Thanks for it, and I hope your introspection leads to more contentedness down the road.

    One thing I want to disagree with: “My company does the thing that I suspect most companies do — they talk a really good game about well-being and work/life balance, but it’s a talking point, not a reality for most people.” I don’t think that’s true! I’m sure it’s widespread, but I think it’s also widespread for companies to really let employees take off after 40 hour workweeks most of the time, to take their full PTO (with appropriate timing/notice) and be fully unplugged during the PTO, to take off early for minor emergencies without it haunting you later, etc. I’m probably in a different industry (tech) than you, but I’ve experienced this in every job I’ve had. I hope your next job switch takes you to a place like that; I promise they’re out there!

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    1. Plate of Wings*

      That’s my experience in many small and mid sized tech companies as well. They tend to back up what they say about work-life balance.

      That said, my current tech company does not celebrate work-life balance, they literally use the phrase “work hard play hard” without irony. I love it for now but I’m glad our industry has a wide range of cultures! Everything I read on this blog about law makes it sound like a different universe.

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  12. The Unspeakable Queen Lisa*

    “Right now, I’m excited about things that would lead me to getting off the bullet train — and struggling with feeling like I “should” want to be trying to drive it, not getting off. Also, it’s scary to stop chasing the thing I’ve been chasing for a very, very long time.”

    So you’re excited! That’s awesome! And then your brain weasels sneak in and whisper “but you should be scared, what will people think? nobody else is doing this.” You did one thing for a while and you’ve worn a rut in your brain that feels comfy. But your first thought about leaving the rut is excitement. Trust that first feeling. (Maybe also read about sunk cost fallacy?)

    There is no should. There is just this one brief life on this beautiful mudball floating in space. Good luck!

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  13. Echo*

    “I want any changes I make to be about running TOWARD something I’m excited about, not running away.” I love this. As someone who dealt with a lot of burnout around work over the past year, I definitely felt more like I just wanted to run away. This has given me a lot to think about!

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