update: our anti-bullying consultant accused me of bullying him

by Alison Green on December 11, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose anti-bullying consultant accused her of bullying him? Here’s the update.

I ended up also discussing my situation with my therapist and a close friend who is in the social work field, both of whom had similar responses to you. I then met with my manager to share how Mark’s behaviour impacted me and to raise my concerns about bringing him into an already fraught environment to offer training on such a sensitive topic. I told her that after a lot of reflection and discussion with trusted support people I had come to understand that I didn’t do anything wrong and certainly hadn’t bullied Mark. My manager revealed that she also didn’t feel good after Mark made the accusations, and that she had questioned his behavior in the initial meeting as well. After we talked I didn’t feel the need to meet with Mark again, so I left it up to her to follow up with him however she saw fit.

Disappointingly, our organization went ahead with the training that Mark had been contracted to do. During the training he singled me out a few times in ways that were subtle enough that others wouldn’t notice, but felt quite pointed. We also had a couple of brief 1-1 interactions where he was very cold with me. Thanks to the support I received from you (and your readers) and the other people I talked to, I felt confident and didn’t react to his behaviour. Incidentally, Mark also made a few off-color and sexually suggestive comments during his presentation, which just underscored how unsuitable he is for the type of work he does! It made some of my colleagues uncomfortable enough to bring it to the attention of management. He had been scheduled for a second follow-up training, but he never came back and we didn’t hear anymore about it.

I have since moved on from the organization to go back to school and I find there is a lot less stress in my life. Thanks again to you and your commenters for all of the thoughtful responses and advice.

P.S. I just realized I forgot to mention the original bully. They are still working for the organization and to my knowledge their behaviour has never been addressed directly. You and a number of commenters correctly pointed out that my former manager’s refusal to manage this issue was at the root of the problem. I think she believes the bully will quit if she tries to address their behaviour directly and since the bully has a unique set of skills, they would be difficult to replace as the organization operates in a very niche sector. As a result the manager has prioritized retaining one problem employee at the expense of an entire department’s wellbeing. I don’t foresee anything changing as long as she is the manager and I am happy I walked away when I did.

You may also like:
{ 52 comments }

{ 52 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. Slow Gin Lizz*

    Sigh. Another disappointing example of “Your boss sucks and isn’t going to change.” Glad you are doing well, OP, and thank you for the update!

    Reply ↓
    1. BethRA*

      See also “missing stairs.”

      If I had a dime for every time someone couldn’t have their behavior addressed (let alone fired!) because they were too “special” I’d buy us all a beverage. At a fancy resort I could fly us to.

      Reply ↓
      1. College Career Counselor*

        Ah, yes. Too special, a rainmaker, irreplaceable set of skills, etc. All reasons to justify the (crappy) status quo rather than deal with the issue. I am reminded once again of Bob Sutton’s book, “The No Asshole Rule,” which talks about toxic jerk behavior and the cost (extra sick days, people leaving, hiring new staff, driving away clients/customers, lowered productivity, etc.) and the companies that allow this to continue for the above reasons.

        Along with “use your words in the workplace,” I suspect “don’t be an asshole” would go a long way to mitigating a lot of human behavioral friction.

        Reply ↓
      2. Librarian*

        When my boss threatened to charge me with insubordination when I wouldn’t tell her what floor of the garage I had parked on (she was reprimanding another employee *in front of me* for using the Wrong Floor), I went to HR to see if that was reasonable. The HR director gave me a long talk about how most of the managers at the institution hadn’t had much experience, etc., etc., etc. I asked him again and I got a blank “I dunno.” He asked me if there were any other instances of that kind of behavior and I brought up the time she compared me to a holocaust denier when I said that no witches were burned in Salem. (They weren’t–mostly pressed to death under rocks.) He thought that was a hoot and asked me if I was Jewish.

        The kicker? She was getting a PhD in management.

        Reply ↓
    2. Blarg*

      I am in this boat right now, but also am being treated for cancer and just cannot imagine changing jobs and risking insurance right now. This update was such a deflating reminder that my job and boss are not going to get better and I just need to stick it out for as long as I can to not jeopardize my health care access (which is quite good by most standards, and far above normal US plans).

      Reply ↓
      1. boof*

        IDK if it helps or not to know that you really can’t make it better except by looking out for yourself? Maybe that’s freeing or depressing, depends on what sort of things you worry about! Because if you worry “did I do something wrong here? Is there a magic combo of words or actions that would make things less crazy that I’m not getting quite right?” hopefully it’s a relief to think “nope! Just put in my time and get what I need and get out!”

        Reply ↓
  3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    I am glad you are out of there. I don’t care how special the skills of the bully are, you cannot allow a bully to continue that behavior.

    Since the manager was never going to reasonably address the issue ( and is so conflict avoidant they let you feel bullied by the alleged trainer rather than raise their own thoughts with you and support you), your very reasonable response was to get the heck out of dodge.

    Reply ↓
    1. DivergentStitches*

      Agreed – I remember thinking, after reading the original letter – “the manager was in the meeting with Mark where he identified the bully – why isn’t the manager backing up the OP when Mark said he didn’t?”

      Reply ↓
      1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        I had a friend in one of those situations. The bully’s skills weren’t unique – just time consuming to learn and gain the necessary certification in (and also legally required in their niche industry). Upper management didn’t start cracking down on the bully – but did their best to shield everybody else while training a replacement (including paying for exams over the course of two years) for the bully. As soon as replacement had their license the bully was out the door.
        But that was three years of “we are aware they are problematic and are working on it behind closed doors with them. I’m sorry that you experienced what you did” type comments while nothing dramatically changed from the perspective of the other employees.
        Friend told me there were open renditions of Ding Dong the Witch is Dead in front of the e bully as they were escorted from the building by security on the day they were let go.

        Reply ↓
      2. Ama*

        I’m pretty sure after years of seeing AaM letters and real-life experiences where this excuse is used that “we can’t fire them because they have special skills,” actually means “we don’t actually understand the work they do and don’t want to have to hire for that position because it would expose how little we understand it.” (Which is why so many times when that person leaves/gets fired it turns out weren’t actually that great at the job parts of their job.)

        Reply ↓
        1. Jackalope*

          Yeah, unless this is something like a tiny town out in the middle of nowhere, I’m guessing they could find a replacement. Someone with niche skills who isn’t a bully.

          Reply ↓
  4. Observer*

    Wow. They had clear reason to be concerned about this guy, but they brought him in anyway. That’s *really* bad management, but no surprise given what you originally told us.

    I’m glad you got the support you need, and and I even more glad that you are out of that environment. Your manager is not doing her job, and upper management is also failing. Because even if management doesn’t care about being decent people. allowing someone like that to hold an entire department hostage is just very bad business.

    Reply ↓
  5. Pomegranates*

    Along with enabling the initial bully, your manager was incredibly non-helpful during the whole Mark saga. She was there when he first accused you of bullying him (?!) and then defended his intent to you afterwards and THEN later told you that she agreed with you.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rainy*

      I had a manager like this–she bowed to whatever wind was most proximate, and until I understood that and expected her sudden and abrupt volte-faces over decisions that were already done and dusted, I found it VERY confusing. Ultimately I came to the conclusion that some people just don’t have a spine.

      Reply ↓
      1. Zona the Great*

        I’m def one who would get wholly bamboozled by this guy for the same reason the LW mentioned: childhood trauma and severe emotional abuse. I never know when I’ve been treated poorly or spun in circles. It sucks and I’m working on it.

        Reply ↓
    2. Pastor Petty Labelle*

      I think the original had a lot of this. Where it was like – oh he’s a bully who figured out how to monetize it by being an expert in anti-bullying.

      Reply ↓
      1. Paint N Drip*

        Absolutely! It GENUINELY seems like he’s just a bully with a greater-than-average grasp on psychology and a penchant for entrepreneurship. Kinda scary to have someone skilled in manipulation in that industry…

        Reply ↓
  7. I'll have the blue plate special, please.*

    Sad to read this news. Mark does sound like a bully too. Glad that you’ve found another job, OP.

    Reply ↓
  8. Cj*

    I missed the original letter, but was struck by the fact that part of Mark’s issue with the OP was that he said the OP didn’t know for sure how he found out who the bully was. But OP talked to Emma about not telling Ann stuff, which led Ann to talk to Mark.

    If Emma didn’t tell Ann, she would have told the OP that, and wouldn’t have had any reason to talk to Ann about it. Pretty much the same thing if Ann hadn’t told Mark – why would she talk Mark about it if she hadn’t told him? There is a little more plausible deniability with Ann talking to Mark, and she could claim that she wanted to let him know the the OP was claiming something that wasn’t true, but given the fact that Emma apparently did tell Ann, that would be very unlikely.

    Whatever the case, Mark sounds awful in generally, and even more so given his line of work.

    Reply ↓
  9. CubeFarmer*

    So the boss knows who the bully is but is too intimidated by the prospect of managing to do something about it? Wonderful. Glad OP left.

    Reply ↓
  13. Ellis Bell*

    Sounds like Mark was exactly the pointless distraction from the real issue that this company would have appreciated. Like bringing in scorpions to deal with rats.

    Reply ↓
  14. Emily*

    I’m so glad you got out of there, LW! Your manager, Mark, and the bully were the problems here, especially your manager.

    Reply ↓
  15. Who knows*

    Ah, reminds me of the time my company’s “diversity consultant” said something transphobic during “implicit bias training.”

    Reply ↓
    1. Rainy*

      In my last job we had a diversity and inclusivity trainer who spent about 40 minutes of a 3 hour session talking about how much he hated himself for being fat and how fat people are bad in every possible way.

      I’d only been there perhaps a year when that happened and I just sat there because I wasn’t sure what to do, but I did complain later that I felt it was inappropriate and contrary to the stated goals of the training. If something like that happened now I’d just get up and walk out.

      Reply ↓
  17. foofoo*

    Absolutely had a coworker like this… extremely problematic behavior, bullying and gossiping and outright hostility towards 3/4 of the people in our department. Our manager refused to deal with it because of the concern that this person would quit and no one else could do the job.

    Guess what?

    They quit on their own and moved on.

    Before that though, they made the department’s life a living hell.

    Never ever worth it.

    Reply ↓
  18. Abogado Avocado*

    LW, so sorry you had to live through this bad management! It’s good to know you’re out of there. Your experience brings home that businesses have to do more to ensure that “expert consultants” have the expertise they claim.

    For me, the moment Mark turned your reasonable concern back on you by accusing you of bullying, it was evident that he wasn’t qualified to speak about bullying (except, perhaps, from the perspective of being a bully himself). True, experienced experts take a beat and explore the expressed concern; they certainly don’t blame the person expressing it.

    Yes, your former manager sucked. And not sucking would have gone a long way to preventing Mark from continuing to bully you.

    That said, to the extent that managers and HR departments offer employee training, those managers and HR departments have to do their due diligence when to ensure that consultants claiming to be experts are themselves trained in their claimed subject matter, have actual experience, and are mature enough to deal with criticism.

    Reply ↓
  19. Lab Snep*

    Oooo. I have worked in so many places with a bully pulling a power trip that I am surprised when I am in a workplace with a strong code of conduct that is actually followed (my current workplace is like this. Not that there aren’t ever issues, but it is orders of magnitude better than the places that went “lol we can’t do anything”)

    Reply ↓
  20. Happy*

    Imagine hiring someone to talk to your entire organization and paying all of them to sit through the training instead of just dealing with the bully. What a bizarre waste of money.

    Reply ↓
  21. Sunflower*

    Bullies who accuse others of bullying them is just so others will walk on egg shells around them trying to prove they’re *not* against the accuser. It’s so they get away with anything. They know exactly what they’re doing.

    Reply ↓
  22. Joana*

    No matter how niche the industry, I’m willing to bet they could find someone to replace the bully. In fact, because the industry is niche, there are probably a number of people searching for that exact job and can’t get it because it’s being held hostage by a bananasuit wearing manager.

    Reply ↓
  23. badger*

    My thought is always this: maybe you don’t want your terrible person with the unique skill set to quit because they’d be difficult to replace, but what if they got hit by a bus or decided to move to Tahiti or whatever? You’re in the same situation. The difference is that if they quit because you held them accountable, the rest of your team hopefully feels like you take them seriously and value their contributions too. No one’s truly irreplaceable.

    Reply ↓
    1. Joana*

      This too. I always forget that angle until someone else brings it up but yes. People aren’t invincible and immortal. Things happen, tragic or not, to make them unable to continue in the job. Unless you have a contract that says you need a huge amount of warning for your resignation, the most you’ll get in a good scenario (they’re moving as opposed to got hit by a bus) is two weeks.

      Reply ↓
  24. Carol the happy*

    Years ago, we had a nasty sexist/racist in the building- so they sent him to offsite training to become the sensitivity/EEOC trainer. (They hoped it would help him to overcome his entire character….) Instead, he became more subtle, especially at the 1:1 with any group he hated. (Another person who attended the training the next year came back shell-shocked because they actually had the students tell racist/ sexist jokes. Talk about how to teach a rattlesnake how to hunt!

    I later learned that he had drowned, falling off a small boat while urinating over the side. Drunk. (If you have to go, “Go Ashore!”) The comments boiled down to “Poor fish!”

    Reply ↓
    1. boof*

      *low whistles* wow, someone(s) actually thought it was appropriate to make someone who was abjectly terrible at something, the authority on something and give them MORE power? I just, it boggles. Of course trying to make an unrepentant bigot into an authority on bigotry is just going to make them better at being a biggot!

      Reply ↓
    2. Zona the Great*

      I real “hoist by his own petard” situation! Bummer dude. In this case, he died doing what he did in life–holding his dick.

      Reply ↓
    4. BridgeofFire*

      To quote/possible paraphrase Clarence Darrow: “I have never wished a man dead, but I have read many an obituary with pleasure.”

      Reply ↓

Leave a Comment

Before you comment: Please be kind, stay on-topic, and follow the site's commenting rules.
You can report an ad, tech, or typo issue here.

Subscribe to all comments on this post by RSS