update: owner won’t do anything about our terrible employee

by Alison Green on December 5, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer whose boss wouldn’t do anything about their terrible (mean, insulting, and disrespectful) employee? Here’s the update.

He’s GONE, fired a couple of weeks ago!

It took much longer than it should have and we still don’t have a satisfactory reason why the boss wouldn’t cut him loose.

It got much worse before it came to a head. The guy has extreme anger issues, problems with authority, possible female authority, and was incapable of getting along with anyone who worked here. He is just an awful person who is in need of deep counseling.

I continued to get reports over the last year from a couple of the guys about his hatred for me. Quotes attributed to him:
a. “What f****** idiot made THAT decision ?” (in reply to my scheduling a job, which is part of my job; apparently he disagreed)
b. “Let me make this clear, that b**** isn’t in charge of ANYTHING!”
c. “I wish that b**** would die.”

Recently he decided to pick out a fellow worker who he knew had an excellent working relationship with me and made passive-aggressive threats to another employee, saying charming things like, “I’ll go all workplace violence on him.” This was reported to boss and the target of his threat told the boss that was enough for him and he needed to do something. That got the ball rolling.

I finally had heard enough and was very tired of being afraid to come to work. If by some last minute change in scheduling, he and I were to be in the building alone together, I just left for my own safety. Two of the guys really had my back and watched out for me. They stayed later than they had to just to make sure I was OK and not left alone with him. It was exhausting and I hated that I had to be afraid of this world-class turd.

I sat down with my boss and said that I felt unsafe coming to work and that it was his responsibility to keep me safe and that he was failing miserably. No ultimatum was given, as I think those often backfire miserably. He finally understood!

I don’t think I will ever understand why he was so hesitant to fire the guy, maybe someday we will have that talk. I don’t want to make excuses for boss and this is what I still find so confusing: he is one of the best people I have ever known. He is an exceptional person and (other than this) treats all of us extremely well.

So my boss asked for a couple of weeks before firing the guy. A holiday was coming up and we were swamped. I wholeheartedly agreed as I was just happy he understood.

The next day, my boss walks into my office, says he’s firing the guy right now, and did I want to leave? Answer: yes.

10 minutes later, he called me and said he was gone.

Turns out the boss had heard the guy saying something derogatory about the company (maybe me?) and that he had a job interview the next day. I am befuddled to think that was the first time he’d ever heard the guy say awful things, and that wasn’t bad at all!

I waited a couple of weeks before updating as I wanted to see if there was any fallout.
First, we replaced him with a much better person already, and that was extremely easy and painless. Second, EVERYONE who works here is relieved! Everyone is happy, relaxed and we were almost immediately back to the excellent company we used to be. It truly is like night and day. I love my job again, and the boss and I are back to our normal selves, working hard but laughing and joking all day.

Thank you, Alison, for publishing my question/problem and thank you to the commentariat for all your advice!

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{ 129 comments }

{ 129 comments… read them below }

  1. duinath*

    …I am happy for you, LW. But I don’t like your boss one bit.

    Taking threats of violence in stride, but then firing after hearing the guy was looking to leave? It’s a bad look.

    1. I guess my entire company was the real work wife the whole time.*

      Yeah, that’s exactly what stood out to me.

    2. ragazza*

      Yeah, I wish we could stop siloing behavior like this. He’s not an “exceptional” person if he was OK with ignoring this behavior.

      1. Wolf*

        It’s such a common issue in letters to AAM. “This is the perfect job for me, except it doesn’t pay well/except it requires schedules I absolutely cannot work/ except that I feel unsafe there/except…”

      2. Annie E. Mouse*

        Yup. Jerry has LW snowed. Jerry literally heard about this guy threatening and committing violence and couldn’t be bothered to care. He is not a good guy.

    3. WellRed*

      Yeah he’s not nearly as wonderful as OP seems to be trying to convince herself. This sounds like an actual hostile workplace as well as the danger factor. He only fired the guy after hearing he was looking for another job.

    4. Hapax Legomenon*

      The only thing I can think of that would square OP’s belief in the boss with his actions as a boss is that Ron had fed the boss a whole sob story and the boss was really concerned about the consequences for Ron’s gravely ill mother/child/boa constrictor/whatever. And then hearing Ron’s comment caused the scales to fall from his eyes. But even then, it would have to be a sob story where someone other than Ron was going to suffer.

      1. Princess Sparklepony*

        I’m wondering if the boss was afraid of Ron but once he heard that Ron had a line on another job, he thought he could fire him and give him two weeks funemployment and be done with the guy.

    6. Annony*

      The charitable take is that hearing that this guy was already looking to leave took away his guilt for firing him. Still a bad look but more that the manager is weak than offended at the lack of loyalty.

      1. Ellie*

        It could also have been whatever that comment he overheard was. It’s easy for some people to dismiss a woman’s concerns regarding her safety. But if the same person actually overhears the threats themselves, it can be a light bulb moment.

    7. goddessoftransitory*

      A very, very bad one. That is “knock off costume from Party City’s super markdown rack” level of bad look.

      1. Laser99*

        I have a theory about it…. I believe incompetency is so prevalent because employers are afraid of a fired employee coming back with a gun. It would sure explain why trying to accomplish even the simplest of tasks is almost impossible.

  3. Last tiger of Tasmania*

    “Remember the letter-writer whose boss wouldn’t do anything about their terrible (mean, insulting, and disrespectful) employee?”

    Which one? :/ Sadly a very common theme.

    (yes, I see the link to the post. It’s a rhetorical question.)

    1. Aerie*

      I definitely had to follow the link because unfortunately there’s several letters that could have been an update to! (Especially considering we sometimes get updates to long-dormant letters)

    2. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Yeah, there are so many letters like this, unfortunately. And I’m very upset this one took so long to resolve, but glad everyone at OP’s company is now so much better off and happier.

  4. bye*

    I mean, I’ll take your word for it that your boss is otherwise a great person, but maybe keep an eye out for any other sketchy behavior. Or maybe Alison was right in her original response and Ron was holding someone hostage.

    1. Learn ALL the things*

      In a past job, I was stuck with an awful coworker. Nowhere near Ron’s level, but still bad enough to warrant firing. But every time any of us went to our boss about it she would hem and haw and nothing would get done. Finally, she said something like “I just feel like it would be unkind to fire her” and I said “your focus on being kind to her is causing you to be really unkind to the rest of us.” She looked really startled by that, like it had never even occurred to her that her attempts to be kind to one employee were causing all the other employees to suffer. It still took longer than I would have liked for the problem employee to be gone, but at least it happened eventually.

      1. HB*

        This is my thought too. I’ve learned a lot from this blog but the biggest thing is that you need to look at work separately from the way you look at your personal life. Things you try to do out kindness usually end up being really mean (like not telling struggling employees what behaviors/skills need to be improved). My bet is that Jerry hadn’t fired anyone before, or hadn’t had to fire someone for something other than lack of technical skill. How often do we see letters where a Manager or Supervisor is under the impression that things that aren’t *directly* related to the job are outside their purview and let it fester? And if Ron’s behavior escalated slowly, Jerry wasn’t going to see the real issue until the OP put it to him in language that finally cut through.

        OP should probably suggest that Jerry start reading the blog… he’s probably burned through a lot of goodwill and he needs to learn how to prevent another Ron situation.

        1. StarTrek Nutcase*

          IME some employees are just brilliant at hiding their true selves (work & personality) from bosses. And because of this, the boss can more easily ignore complaints as general coworkers not getting along – and thus avoid “messy” crap like firing. It’s foolish, yet not uncommon. Also, I’ve worked in places where temper outbursts were more acceptable or ignored, while in others they would have been shocking.

      3. Snoozing not schmoozing*

        I was thinking the LW’s opinion of her boss was way off-kilter. It reminded me of people who let others in line before them in stores, and those people think the person is so kind; meanwhile, everyone behind that person is getting screwed. Sometimes kindness is performance, and sometimes the person who thinks they’re being kind is actually being blind.

        1. Almost Working*

          I’m sorry I’m really failing to understand how letting a single someone behind you cut in front of you in line is screwing everyone else. Isn’t the same amount of time being spent by everyone else? If I’m 3rd in line and person 1 swaps with person 2, I’m still 3rd in line…

          1. EchoGirl*

            I’m assuming they mean letting in someone for whatever reason who’s farther back in the line, not just swapping spots with the person directly behind them.

          2. Meat Oatmeal*

            I think Snoozing meant a situation where the person who’s cutting had not been in line at all. So if you’re 3rd in line and person 1 agrees to let someone in ahead of them, then you’re suddenly 4th in line.

            I agree that switching places within a line is as you describe.

          3. Mutually supportive*

            Sure, but if person 2 let person 8 in front of them, then person 2 becomes 3, were 3 but are now 4, and the people that were 4, 5, 6 and 7 are pushed back too.

      4. L_Rons_Cupboard*

        This is such great phrasing, and something I will remember as a manager who has occasionally had to have difficult conversations.

    2. Avi!*

      I suspect that the problem *is* that the boss is a nice person. My boss is a really nice guy, he also drags his feet way too long on firing people. We’ve had two different people in the time I’ve been here throw literal tantrums while at work, and the worst they got was getting their hours reduced and moved to a solo shift.

    3. TheOtherLaura*

      It happens that the very same thing that makes someone a great person can make them fail totally at greatness. Someone being kind, patient and understanding and believing the best of everyone is great,until a they enable unkind, disrespectful and dangerous behaviour because they can’t stop believing the best of someone who has consistently proven to be a jerk.

      However, for story purposes I will prefer to believe that they got the hostage freed or proved that the incriminating papers were a forgery.

    1. KT*

      This!!!! When OP was talking about what a good boss he was otherwise, my BS detectors were ringing. I wonder if in the future there will be an update like “I got a new job and just now realized how not okay my old one was for XYZ reasons.”

    2. Silver Robin*

      except it had also been aimed at all his other male coworkers too; LW had lots of reports from them about unprofessional and dangerous behavior. and she was telling boss about all of them

      Not even publicly embarrassing the company by changing the truck number to 69 was enough.

      Truly have no idea what is going on with boss here

      1. varied*

        Yeah, based on the letter, I read it as a last straw, not at all as “wasn’t taken seriously until it was aimed at a man.”

        Boss is a limp biscuit for sure.

        1. Sloanicota*

          I wonder if he was legitimately afraid of workplace violence as well. Or personal threats. But you can’t just let it happen because you’re afraid to do anything and have your head in the sand! Terrible management.

    3. Other male complaints*

      I went back to the original letter and OP states that the field workers complained to OP as they act as HR. But it seems that was the first time a male was complaining directly to the boss.

    5. Kes*

      Eh, to me it reads as boss avoided dealing with it until something had to be dealt with (implied threat was the reporter had had enough and might leave if boss didn’t deal with it, so he’d be losing someone one way or another) and then boss feeling better about finally firing the guy knowing that he was planning to leave anyway (given he said he was interviewing elsewhere).

      To me it seems more like your standard ineffective and trying so hard to be nice to everyone that you’ve wrapped back around (because making your employees have to deal with this kind of attitude and behaviour is not nice). It’s incredible that deathwishes weren’t enough to get this guy fired but once again, ‘make it a problem the boss can’t avoid’ comes through, and I’m glad that he is finally gone at least.

    8. Ellie*

      Other men were going out of their way to protect OP though, and boss didn’t listen to them either. I’d say he didn’t take it seriously until he saw it for himself.

  6. Still happy for OP*

    I am absolutely happy for OP.
    But the boss is only willing to fire the guy after he hears him talk about an interview? Sure.

    1. Paint N Drip*

      Seriouslyyyyy. Safety, employee health, whatever. Interviewing somewhere else?? Not on my watch! What a dolt.
      I’m guessing OP has worked in some unsavory environments if this boss is a ‘good guy’

    2. Heidi*

      The way I interpreted this was that the boss was dragging his feet to fire Ron until he knew that he had other job prospects and wouldn’t become homeless or something. It’s a small company, and it’s possible that boss has never had to fire anyone and figures there’s got to be a way to work things out (even though it doesn’t sound like he did much in that regard). I’m glad that the OP is rid of him. Thanks for the update!

      1. Kes*

        Agreed. I don’t think boss fired Ron because he said he was interviewing, I think boss fired Ron because the ultimatums from OP and another worker made him realize he might actually lose employees by not doing anything, combined with boss finally actually hearing for himself Ron saying derogatory things about the company, and hearing that Ron was interviewing just made the boss feel better about firing Ron knowing he was already looking to leave and had prospects elsewhere

        1. JustaTech*

          Yes, that was my thought as well. Poor management and poor leadership, but I can kind of see where the boss was coming from.

          Boss knew Ron needed to be fired, and the one-two punch of hearing Ron say something horrible followed up promptly with knowing Ron was interviewing presumably removed any lingering guilt/concern about firing Ron.

  7. KT*

    So if I’m understanding correctly, 2 different employees reported feeling unsafe, to the point other employees were staying late to make sure OP specifically was safe and never alone with the problem employee got “I’ll fire him in a few weeks” but “he’s got a job interview elsewhere” is cause for immediate termination? Something smells fishy, or at the very least, the boss is not the truly good guy you think he is. I’d definitely be reviewing other past behaviors or misjudments he’s made and certainly keeping an eye out in the future.

    1. Hlao-roo*

      It wasn’t just hearing about the job interview, it was also:

      Turns out the boss had heard the guy saying something derogatory about the company (maybe me?)

      But with this boss, who knows if the derogatory comment or to job interview held more weight?

      1. MigraineMonth*

        Even so, “I’ll go all workplace violence on [coworker]” is allowable, but insulting the business is grounds for immediate termination? Either the boss is one of those “I cannot accept hearsay as evidence (even though literally every one of my employees has told me his behavior is abhorrent) and must hear him with my own ears before I’ll do anything” or he has a SERIOUS problem with his priorities.

        1. Hlao-roo*

          I definitely agree with you about the boss either being an “I have to hear things myself” person or having very messed up priorities (employees feeling safe at work should be right up at the top!).

        2. Learn ALL the things*

          Even if he’s one of those “I have to see it for myself” bosses, he’d had ample evidence that this guy needed to be watched more closely. He should have been keeping a super close eye on things from the very first report.

    2. boof*

      My pure speculation is it was a combination of boss not quite getting how bad it really was (it’s one thing to hear about something second hand vs in person; maybe they filed wayyyyy too much into some kind of “oh I’m sure they didn’t mean it like that/just dark humor” + never actually had to fire someone for behavior before and put it off wayyyyy too long)

  8. Former Lab Rat*

    I’m willing to bet if Ron got hired after his interview he quickly became a problem employee at NewCompany. We can hope that boss was quicker to fire him.

    No kudos to your boss, he should have acted ages ago when you were threatened. If that ever happens to you again consider going to the police and filing a complaint if your boss won’t protect you.

    1. MsM*

      Yeah, I’d be worried Ron’s going to come begging for his job back and Jerry will cave because Ron suddenly appreciates the value of working there again. If I were OP, I’d really need those answers on why this was such a difficult call to make and concrete assurance it won’t happen again.

      1. Sloanicota*

        I’d also be concerned this character will reappear in OP’s life if something goes wrong at the next job. Knowing someone like this, they always blame others for what goes wrong in their lives. If so (hopefully not – he may transfer his grudge to someone else) OP will want to be proactive about filing for protection orders etc as soon as it starts up. I hope they documented the threats – but it’s not too late to do so now.

        1. Sloanicota*

          To clarify what this looks like, you could write down anything you remember, like the date, location, and what was said, perhaps in a spreadsheet, along with the witnesses who can speak to what happened, and contact info for those witnesses. Try to get a written email to your boss summarizing what happens with the boss’ concurrence (do not count on this boss vouching for you in the pinch – get it now while the stakes seem low, if possible). Hopefully you’ll never need to use it. Maybe also share the info with a loved one.

          1. BigLawEx*

            This ^^^ Obviously as a lawyer, I see problems everywhere. But the value of contemporaneous or near contemporaneous documentation can be priceless.

    2. goddessoftransitory*

      I can’t picture Ron lasting long–he got really used to everybody behaving around his absolutely outrageous behavior, like a parasite all nestled into its host. So he quite probably might think that everything he did was “no big deal” and is in for a very rude awakening.

  9. Escape from Corporate Management*

    Another boss who subscribes to the “brilliant jerk” fallacy. When will they learn?

    1. nee: email settings*

      Nowhere in this letter does it indicate in any way that the boss thinks this jerk is brilliant.

      1. Snow Globe*

        In the original letter, the boss didn’t want to fire the guy because of his mechanical ability

        1. JustaTech*

          Which it sounds like was a fallacy because they were able to hire someone with those skills who *wasn’t* horrible very quickly!

  10. Feral Humanist*

    I wonder if the boss was legitimately afraid of firing the dude. That is kind of the only thing that makes sense to me — the idea that he was afraid the guy might retaliate violently, which would not have been out of character. Once he heard the guy had an interview, he may have decided that the odds of retaliation were much lower and so he felt able to do it. Still not a great look; it’s obviously not better to keep someone employed because you’re afraid of what they’re going to do if you fire them. But I at least find the thought process legible.

    1. noname today*

      I was coming here to suggest that. His own fear regarding retaliation being lessened by the imminent job interview.

    2. Bird names*

      Yeah, that sounds like the least shitty while still not very great explanation for boss’ decision.
      I just hope that this was truly the last time LW had to deal with Bob.

    3. Ellis Bell*

      I’d be interested to know how the boss approaches firings generally, as in, has the boss ever actually fired anyone? It seems like he was genuinely apprehensive, which implies just a lack of confidence and practice in handling it, or in replacing them, maybe they had an outsized sense of responsibility to someone’s livelihood. I do think the boss probably anticipated violence since they sent OP home. Hearing the guy talk about applying elsewhere was unlikely to be the final straw, it’s more likely the boss was hoping that their having other employment plans meant a chance of them going more easily.

    4. BethDH*

      The only other thing I could think of was that he’s one of those people who thinks they need courtroom-level “evidence” to fire someone. It does seem like a lot of people think they can be sued for firing someone, so I could see him thinking OP’s reports were hearsay (in the way that term is often misunderstood) and not actionable.

      1. Zelda*

        Is it possible the “last straw” incident was the first time the boss had heard this dude directly, rather than getting reports of what he said?

        That said, “I’ll go all workplace violence on him” is not passive-aggressive. It’s aggressive-aggressive. Yikes.

        1. MigraineMonth*

          Indeed. Passive-aggressive is pretending not to hear when someone asks you to hand them the screwdriver. “I’ll go all workplace violence on him” is a death threat.

          I sincerely hope this man is forever out of OP’s life and does no harm to others.

  11. Successful Birthday Rememberer*

    I will take your word that the boss is otherwise great. I think everyone has at least one person in their life that they are blind to the person’s faults. At least once in their lives. (Apologies to the English majors and editors for that…but you know what I am saying)
    If you ever find out WHY the boss was like that then I would love to hear another update. It’s usually that it didn’t affect boss personally until it did but still…
    well, at least it got done.

    1. CeeDoo*

      As an English major and former English teacher, I understood perfectly what you intended to say. Best holiday wishes to you and yours.

    3. Brandon*

      I think that despite how much information is available due to the internet and its various platforms some information does not end up there.

      I believe boss and angry co-worker had knowledge of each other outside of work. Extended family member? Same social circle? BDSM club members? Both on the outskirts of the same social circle? Attend the same house of worship? Went to same elementary school? Worked at the same part-time job in high school? Friend of a close friend? Friend of a not close friend? These ties don’t necessarily end up on the internet.

      It doesn’t have to be anything nefarious just something your boss did not want advertised at work.

  12. learnedthehardway*

    Wow! I’m appalled that it took the fact that the guy was looking at another potential job opportunity for your manager to do anything – for 2 reasons:
    A) He didn’t do anything about the clear risks of workplace violence and the need to keep current employees safe. I mean, this goes WAY beyond ignoring employee job satisfaction. Yeesh!
    B) It says something really negative about this manager’s response to the fact that people are free agents, and entitled to look at other job opportunities. Yes, this employee was an idiot for slagging the company and stating publicly that he was interviewing elsewhere. But it’s also not a good look for a manager to fire someone because of that.

    1. Laser99*

      Yes. I got the sense the LW was trying to convince herself of that as much as us. What happens if another problematic person is hired?

    2. Nah*

      Yeahhhhhh…. OP, I would definitely be looking for an exit strategy. He ignored threats of extreme violence and his entire staff being afraid to *exist in the building alone with this man* to the point of you not having one, but TWO male colleges with you at all time! What happens when this guy gets fired and comes begging for his job back and boss just lets him back in the shop with a smile and a wave? Please think of your own safety here, because boss sure as heck has shown he does not give a single iota of care for yours or any of his other employees.

  15. Insubordinate Clause*

    The “I can’t fire a toxic person right away because we’re swamped” is bogus, as it seems your company found out. I once inherited a horrid worker who’d been on probation multiple times, but no one had the guts to fire her. Since she treated me (her new boss) just as poorly, I worked through the company’s probation process, evaluated the results with my manager/HR (she made little effort and didn’t meet most of her goals), then fired her right before a big meeting. People came out of the woodwork to tell me it was LONG overdue and offer their help. It was actually more productive with her gone and the meeting was a huge success.

    1. MigraineMonth*

      I imagine there’s a ton more support and goodwill available when you don’t have someone driving off offers of help and actively poisoning the well.

  16. 888 Pocomo*

    It’s always amazing to see how quickly & easily it is to replace a “problem” employee that you thought you couldn’t live without.

    1. Bird names*

      Yup, always interesting how much more work gets done without someone like Bob dragging everyone down all the time. Getting a good replacement quickly on top of that? That’s truly the best outcome.

      1. Sloanicota*

        There are truly so many great applicants out there every time we post a job, I wonder why we hold on to these lousy hires as long as we do. Sure, it takes time to onboard a new person and they’re not helpful right away, but most of the people I’m thinking of are active barriers to productivity NOW. You’d be better with the empty seat in many cases.

        1. Bird names*

          Yes to all of that, especially your last sentence. Had one of those who just could not get up to speed, but his grand boss was convinced that he just needed time (and more time, aaaaand even more time). Even though he was not replaced for months, him finally being shown the door directly improved productivity since we no longer wasted time on reminding him of his responsibilities, documenting the lack of response to our shared customers as well as explaining to dude how to get basic tasks done.

  17. Jennifer Strange*

    Kudos to the other co-workers who stood up for you (especially the two who made sure you were safe!)

  18. Pomodoro Sauce*

    If this reveals other issues with your boss, and you start looking for other work, you should absolutely do it on the d/l.

  19. Ellekat*

    Ye gods. Sounds like the dude is just between prison stretches. Speaking of, if threats of violence were well-known and he physically intimidates people by throwing tools in the shop, why did no one called the cops? Not saying it’s on OP exclusively, and it makes sense to be worried about reprisal, but again, YE GODS!

  20. Observer*

    I have to say that I am *intensely* curious what the boss overheard.

    It must have been a real doozy, given that the boss went from refusing to do anything despite numerous reports of really bad behavior, to *still* refusing to fire the guy immediately even after *two* people had told him that they guy was making *credible threats of violence*(!), “I’m firing him this minute, you may want to take cover!” That’s a pretty big jump from deep denial.

    If you ever find out, let us know what your boss actually heard.

  21. Ashley*

    I’m wondering if the boss felt more comfortable letting him go knowing he seemed to have other opportunities. It’s possible he knew something about this guy’s life that made him feel bad about removing his source of income (reliant family members, etc) and that’s why he kept dragging his feet, and once he thought the guy would have other options he was ready to execute. If the boss doesn’t have history of letting employees go (common in small companies), I could totally see him wanting to avoid it. Not a good decision or being a good boss, to be clear, but it would make sense why he behaved that way.

    1. Hannah Lee*

      A tale as old as time … person with the authority to fire an awful employee from making other people’s work lives miserable, stressful, difficult …

      … because he’s chosen to value and prioritize
      – not making life difficult/uncomfortable for the problem employee, protecting A-hat
      from the natural order of ‘actions meet consequences’
      – his OWN comfort and (false) self-image as a ‘good guy’

      over

      the health, safety and well-being of JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE who just wants to be able to come to work and do their jobs free threats of violence, actual violence, bigoted rants, harassment or damage to their personal property.

    2. WS*

      Yeah, I live in a small town and this sounds like a small business and that kind of thing is way too common. I once had someone interview for a job and say she’d be perfect for the job because her child had [serious illness]. No experience in the field, not much experience overall, terrible customer service and one very half-hearted reference…but we should feel sorry for her and hire her. (My country has national healthcare, so it wasn’t an insurance issue, for the Americans!)

  22. boof*

    Phew LW!
    Since you say your boss is otherwise exceptional, I’ll run with that assumption – now I’m curious if boss has ever fired someone before or if maybe the reason he put it off so long was a combination of this was his first time actually having someone who needed to be fired and/or he was somehow insulated from how bad it was / didn’t quite realize the extent (maybe the guy was good at sucking up when boss was around ??) so it just took one small comment to move things along once they finally realized it had to be done?
    Pure speculation; LW if you ever do have that conversation with your boss please update us again!

  23. Crystal Claire*

    I am just curious what’s going to happen when jerk ex-employee has to have future interviewers call his old workplace for a reference. Also, here is hoping that he will be put in his place and told his kind of behavior is NOT OKAY AT ALL!

  24. Manager*

    I wonder if boss was worried about violence if he fired him. I don’t agree with not firing him for that reason (fire immediately!!) but it would not be the first time I had heard of something like that. We have all seen stories of fired employees targeting their former workplaces with violence. Maybe boss thought that if he had nothing to lose (ie job), he would have no reason not to do something drastic.

    1. Retired Vulcan Raises 1 Grey Eyebrow*

      He may be yet another boss who is very conflict-averse:
      he may indeed be brilliant to work for if you are a good employee, or just a mediocre one who needs coaching, but maybe he doesn’t know how to deal with a rogue empkloyee who ignores polite requests and coaching and just does what he wants with no respect for anyone else, even management.

    2. Laser99*

      As a cisgender woman, I can’t really understand this, but men place so much more value on jobs than we do. It’s a central part of their identity, so if a person is already unstable….

  25. Aneurin*

    He is an exceptional person and (other than this) treats all of us extremely well.

    The words “other than this” are doing some EXTREMELY heavy lifting in that sentence…

  26. Aggretsuko*

    Better a year and a half later than never, I guess?!?

    Both a happy ending and a “grrr” ending for sure. The only thing that made the boss motivated to get rid of him was the guy wanting to leave anyway?

  27. Crencestre*

    This took MUCH longer than it should have to kick Ron out of there, but at least it finally happened!

    As to why the boss was so reluctant to fire Ron – could it be that he was afraid of this volatile, verbally abusive, threatening individual? Could he have feared that Ron would attack HIM if he fired him? Had Ron made some comment about killing anyone who messed with his job? (And I wouldn’t put it past Ron to have sneaked in a weapon when he went to work! But the average, normal workplace already has plenty of things that could be turned into a weapon by a deranged employee looking to attack someone – think scissors or staplers, for example.) Anyway, the boss FINALLY did the right thing – it’s just really, really wrong that he took so long to do it!

  28. Not Tom, Just Petty*

    “The next day, my boss walks into my office, says he’s firing the guy right now….Turns out the boss had heard the guy saying something derogatory about the company (maybe me?) and that he had a job interview the next day.”
    Based on nothing in the two letters except Ron’s inability and unwillingness to act, Ron’s constant covering for this guy and Ron asking for two weeks, I’m going to say Ron found this guy a new job. He wanted time to find him a new job and but it happened more quickly than he anticipated. The “hearing him say something derogatory” is a red herring. The guy was ALWAYS talking crap. The guy was THREATENING people. Ron did NOTHING. He has a soft spot (in his head) for this guy and helped him out.

  29. astounded*

    Why are aggression and threats of violence so accepted and normalized? Why wasn’t this guy reported to police, let alone fired? All these guys thought that staying late to “protect” the LW was the best option? What the?

    1. Annie*

      Lots of people have given their answers throughout this section, and here are a few more:

      – Understandable reservations about involving law enforcement
      – Not wanting to make the news for something bad happening at work
      – If a person frequently communicates a certain way, even when it otherwise would and should be cause for concern, it’s easy to see it as their “normal” and ignore it as the warning sign it is
      – Management having other priorities that seem to conflict with getting rid of a problem employee, e.g. “Where are we going to find someone to staff Llama Stall 6 on such short notice after we fire Mr. Terrible?”
      – Bureaucratic policies that feed into Missing Stair Syndrome
      – Overly deferential personalities in management

  30. Heffalump*

    Was Ron not aware that if he landed a new job, his new employer would be very unlikely to put up with his behavior?

    1. pally*

      Betting that thought will never cross Ron’s mind.

      In fact, if (when) he is fired at his next job for bullying, he will frame it as “someone was out to get him” or anything other than his behavior caused the termination.

    2. Lucifer*

      Who cares, he is no longer LW’s problem. And maybe the new job would have had a far stricter zero tolerance policy for those angry little toad’s antics.

  31. 1-800-BrownCow*

    That’s great news that he was fired. But I also want to challenge you on your thoughts about your great boss. Could it be that he has a great personality, is a very likable person, and you just enjoy working with him? Because based on how he didn’t handle Ron for as long as he did tells me he wasn’t a great boss. I had a manager who was very well-liked. He was charming, outgoing, funny; all the things that attracted people to him. But as a manager? Not so great. I can tell you that while working with him, he seemed like an all-around great person and manager. But once he left the company. We found ourselves having to clean up a lot of messes he made as a manager. He was quite good at charming his way out of many situations and it became very obvious once he was no longer around that he really wasn’t that good as a manager.

  32. Raida*

    I think I can see the logic in your letter!

    Boss = such a nice person = Giving this dude who clearly has issues (too many) chances and opportunities to stay gainfully employed.
    Thinks keeping him employed is the gracious thing to do over the holidays.
    Hears the dude doesn’t give a sh*t about the business, and is leaving.

    That would have been a slap in the face to a nice and thoughtful and kind person, who can finally realise he’s the one putting in all the effort and fires him.

    Just like a sh*tty relationship can end – realisation your efforts are not appreciated.

  33. Lucifer*

    So uhh what kind of blackmail material did this future Leo Held have on the LW’s boss anyway???? It must have been REALLY juicy for the boss to continually put off the LW’s concerns like that but then be all “oh HAIL NO” when he heard that Violent McAngry was actively job hunting.

    Anyway the boss sucks, the future subject of a Netflix documentary series sucks, etc.

  34. Ex-Prof*

    “he is one of the best people I have ever known”

    In my experience many really nice, kind people are incapable of seeing bad in anyone or anything. It can be very frustrating and, as you have found and I have also found in the past, a problem when they are responsible for the safety of others.

    Glad he’s gone! I hope your workplace has security and that they’ve been warned not to let him back.

  35. JeezLouise*

    I’d bet the boss didn’t fire him BECAUSE he’s such a nice guy. I have that same flaw – and it is absolutely a flaw. While it does usually help because I operate under second chances and discussions rather than termination (when that’s my role), I also am incredibly trusting and believe people are doing the best they can with what they have. It screws me over regularly.

    I wonder if, like me, the boss used to be a very angry person and doesn’t know how to find a medium.

    In short, I am a conflict-avoidant pushover. And while it’s made some people become model employees when they haven’t been for other people, it’s also burned me badly.

    That said, there is zero excuse for not terminating someone who throws tools regularly and with others nearby, let alone threatens to “go all workplace violence.” That’s not just termination; that’s calling the police to at least stand by while he’s told to leave.

  36. WFH4VR*

    This is a happy ending, but it was 50/50 that it would be. That guy was unhinged and I’m relieved it didn’t end in a shooting. OP’s boss was really too little, too late. Isn’t there enough in the news to take threats against coworkers or workplaces seriously and involve the police/FBI right from the beginning?

  38. Bill and Heather's Excellent Adventure*

    I’m really glad that man is no longer there but I’m NOT happy that it took him threatening a male employee to make your boss do something. Why was your boss so relaxed about violence against women in the workplace?? He needs some serious reflection and training.

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