update: should I tell my employee she needs to give a clearer “no” to a client who’s interested in her?

by Alison Green on December 2, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

Remember the letter-writer asking whether to tell an employee she needed to give a clearer “no” to a client who was interested in her? Here’s the update.

Many thanks to you and all the commenters who weighed in on my letter! I feel like I gained valuable insight from all the personal anecdotes. To clarify some speculation: I am a woman; I have been hit on before by men; thankfully, I have never encountered violence as a response to my rejection. I am saddened that so many folks could easily offer up bad lived experiences.

The first thing I did was I spoke to Ryan privately and told him clearly that he needed to 1) delete Emma’s number from his phone and stop contacting her on social media and 2) not ask out folks who are at work. I could see the realizations dawning as I was speaking to him, and he was appropriately embarrassed and apologetic. He pulled out his phone in front of me to delete all her info. He asked if he should apologize to Emma directly, but I told him that was unnecessary–that I would pass along his apology to her. A few weeks after I addressed this with him, he initiated another private conversation with me. He wanted to thank me for my clear and direct delivery; he was also very honest and self-reflective that the episode had prompted him to reconsider how he was meeting people, how to be more purposeful with that, and to generally branch out more and seek more friendships. He is still a happy customer.

Emma and I kept in touch throughout and I followed up afterwards to let her know I had spoken to Ryan, he had deleted her info, and he sent his apologies. She was satisfied with that and remains a solid member of my team. She did not lose wages or shifts due to the reschedule.

Emma also granted me permission to speak about the episode at our upcoming all-staff meeting (without mentioning her specifically.) Several useful comments from your readers helped me realize that I could do more to clarify behavior expectations for both my customers and my team. But I kept circling back to this thought: what good is any sort of non-fraternization policy if I don’t properly train my team on how to respond if / when someone pushes that boundary?

I wanted my team to know that they had my support when facing tricky situations, and felt I could also do more to encourage them to step into their own authority to handle those episodes. I offered scripted language they could use, talked through best and worst case scenarios, and laid out an important baseline: that I would back them up in whatever way they needed to handle the situation in the moment, but what I also needed from them was to keep me in the loop when something happens. This is part of what initially frustrated me with the situation with Ryan and Emma; I felt like I was late to the issue. I would have preferred to hear from Emma the very first time Ryan made her feel uncomfortable, at the initial ask for her number; then we may have been able to avoid altogether the unwanted text messages, social media follows, etc. Talking through all this with my team was productive.

On a personal note, the episode and especially all the comments yielded very interesting conversations with my family. I especially appreciated hearing perspective from my college-age nephew about how he has seen it go well–and poorly–when asking a girl out. I do think we have new norms that are not always immediately obvious to people, so I am grateful for the opportunity to learn and grow from this. Many thanks to you and your readers!

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{ 87 comments }

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  2. Hlao-roo*

    Thank you for the update! This is the best possible outcome from the situation (all around–for Emma, for Ryan, for you, and for your other employees).

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      1. Anonym*

        Needed to encounter something this positive today. OP, you did great, and this is a wonderful model for others. I hope it’s shared far and wide.

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  3. Pastor Petty Labelle*

    Oh what a lovely update.

    We always say a reasonable person would be appalled at how they are coming across and take steps to correct that. Creeps try to justify it. Sounds like Ryan falls into the reasonable person category.

    Also massive kudos to the OP for not only handling this well but also realizing that while you do have your team’s collective backs you need to make it explicit to them that you do. They are better prepared to handle sticky situations knowing you will support their reasonable decisions.

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    3. Slow Gin Lizz*

      Yes! I love that OP used this as an impetus to clarify with staff and customers what is and isn’t acceptable behaviors. I agree with OP that it’s a great idea to really lay this out for your staff, since it isn’t necessarily obvious. I love that OP has her employees’ backs when customers act inappropriately, and I do really love that Ryan is a good soul who didn’t realize he was doing wrong and acted appropriately when told to fix his behavior.

      Starting off Update Season on a high note! Yay!

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  5. HiddenT*

    So glad that Ryan is a good dude who was just socially awkward, and it sounds like LW did exactly the right thing by clearly laying out to her employees what they could do in future situations like this. Very good update!

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    1. ferrina*

      Yes! And I love that Ryan took the lesson he learned from LW and used that to reflect on his approach in general, and make changes based on that. That made me very, very happy- Ryan really was trying to do the right thing.

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      2. Angstrom*

        LW may have given Ryan a wake-up call that rom-coms and sitcoms are not a good model for real-life encounters with real people.

        Nice work, LW! A happy customer and happier employees!

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  6. Lisa*

    This is a really great outcome! I’m so glad the LW provided specific training to their staff especially. Knowing your manager not only has your back but is providing you tools to manage that sort of situation is really empowering!

    And kudos to Ryan. It’s great to have the reminder that not all men will react with violence if told no. I hope he’s also able to be a good example to other men on what he’s learned!

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    1. Bird names*

      Completely agreed. In previous customer service jobs I most appreciated the ones that clearly laid out when and how to set stronger boundaries and giving scripts as well, if we preferred using those. That way we didn’t waste time deciding what kind of answer was appropriate and whether our performance would be dinged, if we needed to push back on inappropriate behaviour.
      Kudos to the LW!

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  7. FormerLibrarian*

    *what good is any sort of non-fraternization policy if I don’t properly train my team on how to respond if / when someone pushes that boundary?*

    Nam I want to write this on a notecard and send it to every manager ever.

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      1. What_the_What*

        Hah! Glad you clarified! As I read I was like, “Crap, another new slang term I gotta Google to stay hip”! :)

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    2. darsynia*

      Such a good point!!

      I also want to add that removing an employee from their normal schedule because of a customer’s overstep is *negative* training when it comes to a non-fraternization policy. I was pretty distressed to see this listed by the LW as a definitive option. It’s NOT her employee’s fault that her customer acted like that and prioritizing a customer’s potential money over an employee’s work value (as well as the amount of time, effort, and expenditure to replace them) is wild and crazy to me (but I know it’s common, sadly).

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      1. ferrina*

        In this case, Emma had originally requested the schedule change (in the original letter). Emma felt more comfortable adjusting her schedule to not potentially be with Ryan 1:1, and I think that kind of schedule change is a good way for a manager to support their people (a change initiated by the employee that doesn’t impact total hours).

        But yeah, there are managers that will unilaterally adjust hours and inadvertently (or not so inadvertently) punish the person that complained by reducing hours or having them work a non-preferred schedule. That just teaches people not to trust their manager to have their back.

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        1. Ellis Bell*

          Yeah, adjusting graveyard schedules and solo duties at a woman’s request, has been a time honoured way of keeping creeps at bay since I was working retail and doing barwork in the 90s. Even the most unenlightened manager was cool with my swapping a so-so role or timeslot that left me feeling vulnerable. If Emma’s early morning session with just one customer had been a choice gig in any way, she wouldn’t have volunteered to ditch it! she would have requested a different accommodation, like more backup.

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      2. JSPA*

        I think we clarified at some point in the original posting that the change in schedule was not unwelcome to the employee, though?

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      3. MigraineMonth*

        In general, yes. In this case, OP made the schedule change specifically based on the staff person’s request to avoid potentially being 1:1 with the person she wanted to avoid (but who had not broken any policies since there wasn’t yet a non-fraternization policy). The OP also made it clear in the comments that the schedule change didn’t affect the employee’s pay or number of shifts. It wasn’t perfect, but I think it was a pretty good stopgap measure to make sure her employee felt safe and supported while she reached out to Alison for advice.

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    3. Strive to Excel*

      “What good is any [X] policy [if I don’t give my staff training on when to use it and then the support they need to enforce it]” is the mindset that delineates good workplaces from bad workplaces.

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  8. Friendly Office Bisexual*

    Wow! Great update all around! I’m so glad it turned out to be a constructive learning moment for everyone including Ryan.

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  9. Observer*

    Thanks for this update.

    It’s sad that it’s a bit of a surprise that Ryan reacted so well, but I am so glad that it worked out well. And it’s a good reminder that some people *really* need to be taught some of these things rather than being expected to just “pick it up.” It does sound like Ryan did have wider issues, though. And that hearing what the OP had to say helped him overall. So that’s an even better outcome.

    As for you, LW, thank you for being able to really hear what people were telling you and acting on it. I’m especially impressed that you thought out what could really work and the *made sure to train your staff*. We need more employers like you.

    And also, proof that being a “small business” does not necessarily mean “dysfunctional”.

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    1. MigraineMonth*

      Regarding “some people *really* need to be taught some of these things”, who should be responsible for that? Because it shouldn’t be on Emma–or OP–to teach customers about when and where it’s okay to hit on women.

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      1. Myrin*

        Parents? Teachers? Older friends? Extended family? I’m not quite sure where you’re going with this – I read Observer’s point as a general one regarding society as a whole, not any one particular coworker or manager.

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  10. dude, who moved my cheese?*

    Please try to reconsider your frustration at Emma for not telling you sooner – you need to establish yourself as the kind of manager who is a safe, reasonable person TO tell. Our society has such a backseat-driver expectation of the victim to act (what we feel in hindsight would have been) completely perfectly.

    Similarly to how many people have experiences that make them hesitant to directly reject a man, many people have experiences that would make them hesitant to tell their manager “this guy asking for my number made me uncomfortable.” Would Emma have reasonably known that you wouldn’t dismiss or minimize her concerns at that stage since he had “just” asked for her number? And sometimes you don’t know if it will end there, or if you can manage it yourself, and you need more information before you know whether it should be escalated. You handled this well with your team but it still seems like you’re mentally giving Ryan way more grace than Emma.

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    1. Ana Gram*

      This jumped out at me as well. Employees might not even know how they feel about a situation immediately. Personally, I often need to mull things over to figure what I think. And I don’t want to run to my boss every time an awkward encounter happens. I just think the OP is putting most of the burden on the employee and I don’t love that.

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      1. Happy meal with extra happy*

        I find this to be a big assumption leap and extremely uncharitable to the OP. To expect an employee to report something that makes them uncomfortable is simply necessary for the manager to fix it. And the sooner it is reported, the easier it often is to fix. Managers can be human and have internal feelings of frustration if their job is made harder. (And here, it reads as if she no longer does even!)

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        1. Workerbee*

          I agree about the assumption leap, but not about the expectations. By the time you’re in the workforce, if not soon after, you* likely have had at least one inappropriate – to say the least – experience where an alleged authority figure / someone with the power to help either did nothing or blamed you for the gall to exist. And, sadly, it only takes one such instance to sow tons of seeds of distrust.

          Signed, someone who did finally muster up my gall to exist to report a harassing coworker, only to be told by one person in power: “Can’t you just be flattered?” and then dinged by my own manager on that year’s performance review for “Not building trust among colleagues.”

          *Not all yous.

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      2. bamcheeks*

        But that’s the point of having the training and discussion with the whole team– it’s to help people recognise the situations that LW thinks are unacceptable and should be reported, regardless or whether they are personally bothered by it.

        The test shouldn’t JUST be “is this individual employee upset”: there should be objective standards of behaviour which aren’t acceptable even if that particular employee doesn’t mind. It’s great if Claire is nonchalant about a customer swearing at her because she’s worked night-time shifts in a garage and this gig is pretty tame by comparison, LW can still ask her to report it because it’s upsetting for other staff and customers and it isn’t the standard of behaviour they want to see here.

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        1. ferrina*

          +100

          This is exactly why LW had this training. LW was frustrated that she didn’t know about the situation earlier (it didn’t say she was frustrated at Emma, just that she was frustrated at the situation), so LW took steps so that employees knew how to handle the situation and when to loop in LW (i.e., as early as possible).

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    2. bamcheeks*

      I think that’s exactly what she is saying– she realised she would have like Emma to tell her earlier, but since she’d never verbalised that request to her staff there is no way Emma would have known that. So that’s why it was important to have a broad and proactive conversation around that situation and similar ones.

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    3. atalanta0jess*

      I actually don’t necessarily read that as frustrated AT EMMA that she didn’t share sooner. The writer says she was frustrated about that piece of the situation, and thus she’s spoken with her team to establish new norms. That tells me she’s NOT just saying “oh Emma definitely should have told me sooner, that’s on her.”

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    4. HannahS*

      In my reading, the OP realized that this was part of what underlay her initial frustration, and spoke about all of this with her team so that now they know that they can talk to her. I didn’t get the sense that she’s still feeling frustrated with Emma, or that she thinks that what Ryan did was acceptable.

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      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        Same. I saw it as a lightbulb moment for OP. More than, “I wish I knew earlier and this would not have been an issue” OP reframed the situation, “WHY did I not know earlier? What can I do for the next time?”
        That’s the best of all possible outcomes.

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        1. Falling Diphthong*

          Yes. “If I want to land on outcome X, what are the steps that need to happen for my employees to do that?” And reverse engineered it.

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      2. Sparkles McFadden*

        That’s how I read it too. It’s “Oh, I wish I’d done all of this sooner so I could have spared Emma the unwanted contact.”

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    5. Kes*

      Agree especially on the “you need to establish yourself as the kind of manager who is a safe, reasonable person TO tell”. Just as Emma didn’t know how Ryan would react, she also didn’t know how OP would react.
      In fact, OP was initially annoyed to be brought into the situation and felt Emma shouldn’t have brought it to her at all – “I as her employer have been inserted into what should have been handled between two young adults as an interpersonal issue” – so it’s a little hypocritical to now be upset that Emma didn’t involve OP earlier in the situation.
      That said, it sounds like OP has done some reflection and grown in the process and is making it clear to her employees that she will back them up, which is good. I would encourage OP to continue to reflect and to understand that while it’s good to empower your employees to deal with situations if they feel up to it, there are also reasons they may feel safer to involve you as someone with more power and/or less directly involved.

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      1. Lady Danbury*

        That sentence bothered me as well. It’s never just “an interpersonal issue” when it’s in the workplace, which is why the standard advice is to carefully consider the entire situation when considering approaching someone romantically at work, whether a shared workplace or one party’s workplace. Often (as in this situation) the answer is just don’t approach them at work. Ryan made it more than just an interpersonal issue when he approached his service provider at her place of work.

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        1. Dawn*

          Like, I don’t know if maybe some of these people have never worked an entry-level job, but generally speaking as the young entry-level employee you really can’t just take it on yourself to decide how to respond to a customer in a lot of cases. That’s not up to you to decide; that’s up to your manager, and sometimes you’re risking your job if you take initiative with a customer who is out of line.

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          1. Lady Danbury*

            Exactly. Far too many managers take a “customer is always right” approach to these kind of situations. Even OP’s original take that Emma needed to be more firm in saying no ignored the customer/employee power dynamics, not to mention potential safety issues of rejecting someone who knows where you work and that you may be there early mornings/late nights alone. OP lack of understanding (as demonstrated in her letter) meant that she was not a safe space for Emma. I’m glad that everyone in the letter seems to have learned and grown from this.

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    6. Dawn*

      Yeah, this bugged me too, honestly. I won’t say much more about it because tone doesn’t translate well in text, but you (the presumably older and wiser business owner) need to let go of any frustration you do have with (younger, inexperienced in life) employees not being as savvy about these things as you’d like.

      As frustrating as it may be, it is your responsibility to address, due to the power disparity if nothing else.

      Reply ↓
      1. Happy meal with extra happy*

        Well it’s a good thing then that OP has already taken the steps that you’ve beratingly told her to do. It’s a shame that a wonderful, honest update still gets nitpicked to death.

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          1. Dawn*

            And not even where I’m certain she does have improvements to make! I thought I made that clear! All I was trying to get across there was if the OP is still feeling some of the frustration that I felt coming across, then that’s something to address within herself (as most (but not all) of her solutions here seem to have been external, not internal.)

            And I hate having to caveat what I write so much to avoid pushback that I end up with nested parenthesis.

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    7. Meep*

      To be completely fair, when I was 17-years-old I had a 45-year-old colleague pin me into a register (this was at a grocery store) and tell me how he cannot wait until I was no longer jailbait. (It got A LOT more graphic than that!) I was only saved by a regular coming into my line.

      He was fired two weeks later because he made an advance on another coworker and while I was glad, it didn’t hit me until one day when I was 24-years-old that I was actually SA’ed. And then my first response was frustration.

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    8. Chirpy*

      This, I’ve had multiple managers who were NOT safe or reasonable to tell about creepy/uncomfortable customers. It was incredibly helpful when my current manager explicitly said we can hang up on abusive customers, because I honestly was afraid to do so because I was afraid it would impact my job. (This manager still thinks creepy men will just take “no” for an answer, but it’s a first step.)

      Reply ↓
    9. Daphne*

      “ Please try to reconsider your frustration at Emma for not telling you sooner”

      I agree. In addition to the points made, your initial reaction, per your initial letter, was feeling that you were inserted into an interpersonal conflict that they should resolve themselves. In this mindset, what would you even have done if you had known sooner?

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  11. Florp*

    I keep a list of scripts and strategies that I read on this site and others that help me figure out how to handle the tough stuff before it happens. This is going on the list, not just because of how well OP handled Ryan, but also the idea that this is the kind of thing that employees and managers need training and support for. So good!

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  12. Elizabeth West*

    This is a fantastic update. I’m very impressed with how you provided guidance to your employees, LW. Many younger employees may not know how to handle the situation, or what to say, especially if they’re unsure whether they’ll get in trouble. If they’ve worked at service jobs before, they may have had a manager who didn’t back them up when a client or customer crossed a line, but you clearly indicated you can and will do that. You’re an excellent boss!

    And good for Ryan. This was a learning situation for him as well — sometimes you don’t know what isn’t okay until you misstep, but he got the picture.

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    1. Art Teacher*

      This is what I was thinking, too. It sounds like this is the sort of place where employees may not have a ton of work experience, so it’s important to explain some of the dynamics that may seem obvious to those of us who have been working for 10-20 years.

      This OP seems like a good boss though so I’m glad Alison and AAM was able to help her come up with such a workable plan!

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  13. Sick of Workplace Bullshit (she/her)*

    I’m glad this all worked out well! I will say, though, that while I understand your frustration about being “late” to the situation, Emma also probably feared what your reaction would be. In your first letter, you were frustrated she hadn’t given Ryan a “clear” no. Just as she didn’t know what his reaction would be to that, she also didn’t know if you would blame, shame, or fire her for the way she handled it. And being young and socialized as a woman, she likely doesn’t have a lot of experience in standing up for herself.

    I’m glad you were open to other views and are really stepping up for your team.

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    1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

      I really appreciated OP’s honesty on that part realizing that Emma didn’t have guidelines for what to do, because OP hadn’t imagined her perspective. Once she did, OP had a conversation but did not put everything on her staff. It was less, “what do you need from me?” more of “here is what I think I need to do as your manager.” and “Here is what I would like you to do in this situation. Let’s discuss what you are comfortable with.”
      That is huge.

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      1. Sick of Workplace Bullshit (she/her)*

        Yes, I was impressed with that as well. I was pointing out additional perspective of why Emma might have behaved why she did.

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    2. Ellis Bell*

      I think a lot of us have let stuff slide past the first incident, or stayed silent because of the overwhelming culture of victim blaming we live in which assumes “well it can’t be that bad”. Too often you tell the wrong person and they somehow make it worse. This is why it’s so great that OP has held this training, to make it explicit in what ways they can respond and on what ways they’ll get backup.

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  14. Jules the 3rd*

    omg – a completely positive update? Is this real?
    I am impressed all around, including Ryan, at the maturity displayed. If everyone were this thoughtful, we wouldn’t need to be so worried about saying no.

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  15. Meep*

    I am so happy to hear this update! Thank you for handling the situation with poise and grace, and making your future expectations clear.

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  16. Sparkles McFadden*

    This is exactly the update I was hoping for in this case. This could serve as a textbook example on how to handle such situations. Training is vital. Everyone usually complains about having to attend such sessions, but such training can be the difference between a good workplace and a bad one. Communication is vital. The way you let Ryan know “This is not OK behavior” and let Emma know how you were handling everything was perfect.

    Thank you for the update!

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    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I entirely agree. One of the things a good manager does is to articulate the trickier situations and lay out possible approaches to handle them — BEFORE it happens. So taking the opportunity to train on this type of event to the whole group then gives the staff a chance to voice their own perspectives/experiences/strategies so that everyone is more informed and better prepared. And quietly reaffirms to Emma that this was something that you took seriously.

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  17. Sara without an H*

    I would have preferred to hear from Emma the very first time Ryan made her feel uncomfortable

    Hi, OP — I was in middle management for 35 years, and I get your frustration. The thing is, you have to consciously create a work culture in which your direct reports know and understand that you want to hear about this stuff as soon as possible, so that you can take action to support them. A lot of times, managers assume that their people “just know” that you’ll have their backs. They may or may not know this, but don’t assume it until you’ve made it explicit with both words and actions. (If your words and actions don’t match up, you have other issues you need to work on.)

    It sounds as though you’ve handled this just fine — raising the issue in the all-staff meeting (with Emma’s permission: yay!) and providing explicit guidance on how your staff can react to inappropriate customers. You might want to make that part of your regular agenda, asking staff if there have been any situations where they felt they needed more guidance/support/input from you. It will take ongoing reinforcement, but you want a culture in which staff feel free to surface issues early.

    That said, I thought you handled this situation superbly well. We hear about so many crappy managers on this site. Your update made a bracingly refreshing change. Here’s to more success in the New Year!

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  18. Regina Phalange*

    Great job, OP!

    In the year of our Lord 2024 men should not need this much hand holding to figure out they shouldn’t ask people out at work — but he responded the way all men should when called out this way.

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    1. Catgirl*

      They should not. We need to teach boys better. Ryan sounds like a good guy who just made a mistake, but with some help he would have known not to make that mistake.

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  19. JSPA*

    One bit of lagging feedback on the subject of lagging feedback: sometimes the first overture only becomes unwelcome in retrospect.

    “Give me your number and I’ll text you that horse-loves-cat video I mentioned” can be 100% innocent, if what follows is… sending a link to that video.”

    “Hey, my sister is in a private Facebook group for people teaching their cats to ride horses, want me to ask her to invite you on?” Not, in itself, a huge overstep. 1 star on the 5 star “awkward slow motion pass in process” warning scale.

    But then the messages start, and proliferate. And in retrospect, those harmless offers were clearly “nice guy” (TM) maneuvers to get your contact info.

    Looking back, it all feels a little creepy now‐‐and you are second-guessing yourself for not seeing it. So when you (quickly) bring it to your boss, you are telegraphing all that shame for not having anticipated it earlier, and you’re retroactively bouncing up that warning feeling to “two stars” or “three stars” or an entire red flag. And your boss (reasonably, from their vantage point) is irked you didn’t bring it to them sooner.

    But when it was “sooner,” there wasn’t yet an “it” to bring.

    So as the boss, you have to accept that things which are clear in retrospect, are frequently completely murky in real-time.

    And that you don’t actually want to have to speak to clients each and every time one of them unthinkingly and innocently offers to share a cookie recipe, cat video (etc), just because some people are jerks.

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  21. Sunshine on My Shoulders*

    Three cheers LW – the things you list here are so exactly the right thing to do! Very well done! And three cheers to Ryan for being the rare type of man who can be introspective and learn about his choices, and then make better ones. (Do your best until you know better, and when you know better do better. Maya Angelou)

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  22. Elle*

    I’m really glad LW made policy changes and implemented training in the wake of this incident. I have worked retail and figured out how to handle being hit on by trial and error. I’ve gotten in trouble for being “uppity” when a coworker hit on me. Nightmare.

    But since I started working in libraries, several bosses and supervisors have reiterated to me that I should tell patron that it’s against the organization’s policy and I could literally get fired giving my number (or money) to a patron. I haven’t heard of anyone actually getting fired over this – none of this is in our handbook. But it takes a real slimy person* to not realize that being the reason the person they’re trying to hit on gets fired will not endear them.

    *Person because I did once get asked for my number by a gorgeous stud I would have given my number to in a social situation. But she was polite – I didn’t need to go into getting fired, just said I don’t give my number out at work.

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  23. Cats Ate My Croissant*

    Blimey, Ryan appears to be a bloke who’s genuinely socially awkward as opposed to the usual ‘claims to be awkward / autistic in order to abdicate all personal responsibility for creepy behaviour’ type. Never thought I’d see one in the wild.

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  24. RWM*

    What a nice update! Glad Ryan took the right things away from this, and that you were able to better empower your team to handle these situations in the future.

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    1. Hlao-roo*

      I don’t see victim-blaming in this update. I read “This is part of what initially frustrated me with the situation with Ryan and Emma; I felt like I was late to the issue” (emphasis mine) as the OP reflecting that her initial off-the-cuff reaction in Sept. 2023 was a little victim-blame-y (why didn’t Emma tell me sooner?) but the OP now realizes it’s because Emma didn’t know the OP would have her back. Now the OP has talked this through with all of their employees so if anything similar happens again, hopefully OP is able to take care of it much sooner.

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      1. 34avemovieguy*

        “I would have preferred to hear from Emma the very first time Ryan made her feel uncomfortable, at the initial ask for her number; then we may have been able to avoid altogether the unwanted text messages, social media follows, etc.”

        This is blaming Emma

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        1. mel*

          No, it’s reflecting back on the situation with the benefit of hindsight, in the context of solving the problem at hand. You’re the one removing that line from the context. LW wrote that to explain the goals of the new training, and how/why the new training would be an effective solution. LW noted a blind spot (assuming employees had no problem confronting customers/managers for bad behavior), noted the problems it was causing (Emma-Ryan situation, employees not trusting management to support them) and addressed it (explicitly laying out expectations and the support employees could expect from management).

          I also do not know where you got this idea LW is praising “every man in her life.” The situation with Ryan was resolved to universal satisfaction to all involved. What other men are there??

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    2. Myrin*

      What? OP held Ryan accountable immediately after receiving Alison’s response. The only other man mentioned in this update is OP’s nephew, and in a neutral way tying into how OP has talked to her family about the topic and how it yielded interesting results for everyone involved. Who are these multiple men OP is “praising”?

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  27. Keymaster of Gozer (She/Her)*

    It’s impressive in a kind of sad way that the bare minimum for a man behaving like a decent person (understanding and backing off) is something to applaud but I’m still impressed that he did.

    And I adore this update. A lot of reflection and learning went on here and I’m all here for that.

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  28. Gmezzy*

    Thank you so much for taking the feedback from Alison and the commenters to heart. I’m literally a little choked up reading this and knowing you’ve just made the environment safer for your workers, especially as some of them are young and may not have the language and skills to draw sharper boundaries.

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  29. BekaRosselinMetadi*

    This was a really wonderful update-full of great ideas/people learning about how to deal with situations and actual growth on everyone’s part. Kudos to all involved.

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  30. Lady Danbury*

    Excellent update! OP, your employees can only know that they should come to you in these types of situations and you’ll have their back if you demonstrate (either when the situation happens or ideally in advance via training) that you will have their backs. Kudos on realizing that training is necessary, as I’m sure this isn’t an uncommon scenario in their line of work. It might also help to put customers on notice in advance by adding some sort of non-fraternization policy to the gym rules.

    Reply ↓

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