updates: boss says I need to socialize more, coworker won’t talk to us, and more

by Alison Green on December 23, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are five updates from past letter-writers.

There will be more posts than usual this week, so keep checking back throughout the day.

1. My boss says I need to socialize more with my team

I was able to comment the day that the article was posted and gave some additional details: I am a woman, I am also the youngest person on my team by about 20 years (I am mid-30’s), and my manager just went through a contentious divorce. I didn’t think much of it until other people in the comments were telling me to err on the side of caution when it came to my manager’s feedback given that it seems like he just wanted to spend more time with me, and not necessarily that my team doesn’t know me, especially given that he wants me to be sociable late at night.

I went through two more meetings with my manager where he kept saying that he feels as though the team doesn’t know me, but would not give direct feedback even when I asked. So I decided to take matters into my own hands. I had two conventions I attended with my teammates (that my manager did not attend due to other conflicts) and I was able to hold some space to tell them that I had received feedback that it feels like people don’t know me and that I’m always available if people have any questions or if they’d like to talk. The response was a resounding: “What are you even talking about? We know you very well and we enjoy working with you!” from every single person on my team.

When I brought this back to my manager, he hemmed and hawed and wouldn’t talk to me more about it even when I asked where the feedback was coming from given that I received the exact opposite feedback from my teammates.

About two weeks ago, there was a major restructuring in my department and — surprise — my manager is no longer with the company. My suspicion is that there was much more going on than just this issue.

On the bright side, I got to meet my new interim manager. He and I have actually worked together previously at a different company and we worked very well together, and he seems eager to actually manage instead of trying to police people’s time outside of working hours. He has even put me in charge of an upcoming work dinner, and I have scheduled it from 5-7 PM with absolutely zero obligation for people to hang out after 7 PM unless they’d like to.

2. My boss is mad that I communicate better than she does (#4 at the link)

Thanks so much for answering my letter, I really appreciated the reality check and your advice along with that of the commenters, and I do have an update to share.

I tried to clarify some of this in the comments, but here’s some background that people were asking for. My manager (Jane) and I are both middle-age women, we’ve worked together for years, and she knows I don’t want her position. The last time it was open, I was encouraged to apply and declined. I don’t want to “manage” exclusively, I like keeping my hands in the work more than just doing projections, reporting, etc.

On to the update. After reading your advice, I began using your wording with people asking about decisions and answers. Most caught on pretty quickly that things had changed, but my reputation didn’t seem to take any hit, thankfully. I also set up a meeting with my grandboss (Laura). Not wanting to completely blow up my relationships, I didn’t give Laura the full context of the comments, but I did tell her I had been told to talk less in meetings and was conflicted because it seemed that she was asking questions and wanting me to contribute, while Jane had explicitly told me that I needed to talk less. I pointed out that I was also trying to involve Jane in meetings more (deferring to her when asked questions) and had even been IM’ing Jane in meetings with questions and thoughts so she could share instead of me. Laura was baffled and said she’d noticed I had been much quieter recently and she had been wanting to reach out and check on me. She offered to talk to Jane for me if I wasn’t comfortable, but in the end we decided I would try to get clarification again on the direction.

And I did…only to be told it was all a “miscommunication” and “misunderstanding” and I should just keep doing what I was doing and everything was fine (???). I tried to go back to normal and was then overruled by Jane on a couple of issues that seemed simple but greatly impacted my team’s workflow and morale. Eventually she reversed course but it was always presented as her idea to make improvements that were really just changing things back to the procedures I had set up originally. It was frustrating to say the least.

Throughout all of this, I was considering a lot of the questions asked by the commenters, and thought about what I really wanted to get out of my job and if I had hit the limits of what I could do within my org. While I had grown and expanded my job beyond what the intial description was, there really was no room for growth without moving into a more “hands-off” role than what I wanted, and even if I went that route it would be a long time coming. While I loved many things about my company and my team, I decided I needed to look around and see if there was something that might be better for me. And there was! I’m happy to say that I’m starting this week at a new job focused on training beginning teapot lid makers, with less responsibility, more money, better benefits, and what seems so far to be a very supportive manager!

3. My coworker refuses to talk to us and management won’t do anything (#2 at the link)

I originally wrote in mid-June, looking for advice and/or a reality check about Ann blanking out the majority of the team. After your reply and the advice/comments from the comment section, I did manage to mostly live with it. About a month later our district manager was around and Ann and her friend asked to speak with her, privately. The DM, thankfully, decided that she needed to actually hear all sides of the situation, and launched a full investigation into what was going on.

Beginning in late July and running into early August, everyone in the store was pulled in for one-on-one meetings with the DM and the regional manager. In my own meeting I mentioned Sam citing Ann and Friend as a reason for his leaving, and a couple of incidents that had happened with me. After the round of meetings and another couple weeks of behind-the-scenes coordination, we had a few Big Staff Meetings with our store manager, district manager, and regional manager, giving a literally-scripted talk on behaving professionally and being nice to each other. Ann and Friend did improve for a while after this, beginning directly after the DM launched her investigation and lasting for about two weeks after those Staff Meetings. When they returned to their previous habits, the rest of the staff rolled our eyes and moved on.

In the past few weeks, though, Ann and Friend have become more and more attached at the seams. This has included things like Ann and Friend being assigned to work different sections of the store and Friend proceeds to ignore the assignment and go help Ann for the day. Sometimes, that means they’ve been scheduled for separate lunch times, and they’ll ignore the schedule and proceed to take their lunch together. And just under a week ago, when Ann was assigned a different lunch than Friend, Ann seems to have decided that she wasn’t interested in taking her lunch if she didn’t have Friend nearby. She proceeded to clock out for her lunch break and return to work during that time. One of our shift leads discovered this and pulled Ann into a disciplinary conversation about not breaking labor laws. During the course of that conversation the shift lead ended up pulling in the District Manager via speakerphone, and based on what Ann was saying and what had already been happening, District Manager made the decision to let Ann go from the company.

We’re hoping that without Ann there, Friend will be a reasonable coworker, but it is early days to tell for that. We’ve also heard that we won’t be hiring to replace Ann, so it’s not an ideal situation, but it’s still nice to go into work without wondering if I’ll be ignored today.

4. I lied to get out of a non-compete, and now it’s coming back to haunt me

A day or so after I wrote to you, the organization I had lied to canceled my interview. HR said they had chosen another candidate, and that was that. I didn’t ask any questions because it seemed unwise to poke that bear. I suppose I got exactly the consequences I deserved: no second chance with that specific employer. And that’s OK with me. I can accept that I did something dishonest and crappy, I can accept the (possible, but unproven) consequences of the dishonest, crappy thing I did, and I can also accept that not being interviewed for a position is not a career-ending event.

As penance, I came clean to both my parents about The Lie. Fortunately, they didn’t care: they were incredulous that my former employer had made me sign a non-compete at all, especially as the underling I was at the time. My mom made a mom joke along the lines of “It’s a good thing I didn’t drop dead. If I had you would have felt really guilty,” which was absolutely warranted.

Since my letter, I’ve entered clinical research, a much bigger field with many more employers and jobs. This would be all sunshine and roses except three people from my old organization, all of whom were aware of The Lie, work at my new organization, so I’m still waiting for the past to catch up with me. If and when I face those consequences I suppose I’ll have to accept them too.

5. Joint retirement party (#5 at the link)

The staff arranging the retirement party decided to ask the retirees what they wanted as you suggested and they decided a joint party was a good idea. The wife had nothing to do with it. It turned out to be a fun evening for all.

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{ 24 comments }

{ 24 comments… read them below or add one }

  1. H.Regalis*

    Re: LW1’s manager – This makes me think of a friend of mine’s recent experiences. She’s periodically been contacted by various guys from her past—old online friends, old schoolmates, old roommates, people she used to game with and doesn’t anymore, etc.—and it always starts out as something like, “Hey, haven’t talked to you in forever! What have you been up to?” and then inevitably segues into that they’re getting a divorce and are looking for a new partner/girlfriend/hookup and is she interested? This has happened to her at least half a dozen times over the past 3-4 years.

    Bonus points: She’s married and her profile picture on most stuff is from her wedding. Reality is no match for dickful thinking.

    Reply ↓
    1. Rainy*

      I have a friend whose marriage ended several years ago, and basically the second the news hit the gossip circuit, every single–and some not, sigh–dude from her and her ex-husband’s social circles started crawling out of the woodwork trying to hit.

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    2. HiddenT*

      Ha, “dickful thinking”.

      I absolutely agree he was trying to hit on her in a stupid roundabout way. He was probably hoping to either get her alone after a work event or for her to offer to go out with the team, but then “the team” would end up just being the manager.

      Glad she called him on his BS by talking to her coworkers directly and that he’s gone now. Seems like a real creep.

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    3. springshowers*

      This is SUCH a thing that happens. Dude gets divorced and is clingy / emotional with the younger women at work.

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    4. Tiger Snake*

      Is THAT where this was going?

      I was getting the impression that it was a case of LW1’s coworkers had just known each other for ages – either having worked directly with each other or adjacent in one role of another over the years – and so the manager was trying to compare “new friend” with “these guys live in each other’s pockets”.

      Reply ↓
      1. EDIA*

        I would not call someone I knew for two years a “new friend.” Given the described behavior here, I’d say LW and all the coworkers share warm, collegial relationships, and boss is the one that sticks out, trying to push/pull relationships in directions that don’t come naturally, using obtuse methods, to boot.

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    5. goddessoftransitory*

      Nothing says “I don’t actually care about you as a human” like hitting on a person you haven’t talked to in years without ascertaining their relationship status.

      Reply ↓
  2. A man wouldn’t give it a second thought!*

    I have no problems with “The Lie”, and LW4 did. I thing “dishonest or crappy”.

    And yes that non-compete was likely so broad as to be unenforceable — further evidence LW dis nothing wrong.

    LW4 should stop second guessing herself.

    Reply ↓
    2. Mockingjay*

      From the original letter, ‘The Lie’ was 12 years ago. I doubt it will ever come up with the three persons from the old org; most people aren’t going to remember details from that long ago. On the slight chance that they do so, you have Alison’s original advice: “oh, Mom’s outcome was better than expected.” But they’ve moved on too.

      OP, you’re a conscientious person, which is why ‘The Lie’ weighs so heavily on you. While honesty is the best policy, I sincerely don’t think you’re the only person who’s ever fudged their situation to get out of a blanket noncompete. It’s generally accepted that noncompetes are unenforceable in many circumstances and in fact you consulted a lawyer at the time who said the same. You were young, you made a mistake in handling the situation at the time, but you’ve done good work since then. Heck, I’d argue that you shouldn’t have had to sign a noncompete; those should be reserved for specific senior or highly skilled employees that have special knowledge or access to proprietary info. (Seriously. As a junior employee, I doubt you could have tanked the business by going to a competitor.) Had you a bit more career experience at the time, you probably would have had the confidence to challenge the noncompete (or not sign one in the first place). Your boss likely knew you were lying; they just gave you the scare lecture about who to work for going forward, to avoid the paperwork on their end.

      Take a deep breath and let the guilt go.

      Reply ↓
    3. Zelda*

      Years ago, I was faced with a very similar non-compete– there was actually proprietary business knowledge involved, but I was signing up to be a rank-and-file, part-time worker, and I brought a lot of experience and knowledge of my own to the table. The non-compete was more or less “if you leave us, never work in this field again,” which is capital-R Ridiculous. I got very similar advice from my lawyer, that the darn thing was probably unenforceable, but possibly still a giant headache to fight. So I negotiated: Make it three months instead of two years, and I’ll sign. The branch manager had to consult with her higher-ups (I get the impression she really understood neither the clause nor my objection), but they needed staff, the company lawyers probably knew it wasn’t enforceable, and three months is a decent “I promise not to steal your client list on my way out the door” token. I signed the modified agreement and stayed for fifteen years.

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    4. Alz*

      Yup, came here to say the same thing. LW 4 look after yourself! I went back to re-read the original letter assuming the lie was to cover up something horrible (stealing, bullying, shafting a coworker) but Alison was right- the company pushed you into a situation where lying was your only option. Karma isn’t coming for you when you are literally sacrificing 1,000s of dollars’ worth of potential earnings to do something meaningful for a non-for-profit. If karma is coming your way it will be full of good and joy!

      Reply ↓
  3. like elsa, let it go*

    lw4 you have got to let it go. the company was taking advantage of you. if anyone somehow remembers that your mom was allegedly terminally ill, you can say the situation changed. donate some money monthly to causes that help people with illness and stop beating yourself up over this.

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  4. Lucifer*

    “This has included things like Ann and Friend being assigned to work different sections of the store and Friend proceeds to ignore the assignment and go help Ann for the day”

    I was wondering how long it would take for upper management to find that out and bring the hammer down. Although it’s kind of a bummer that only Ann has been 86’d for not clocking out for lunch—why wasn’t the friend disciplined too for insubordination once that came to light? Because this detail provides the context that even on their own, Friend probably is still the weak link in the store.

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    1. H.C.*

      I think the update meant to say that Ann was still taking her lunch to coincide with her friend’s lunch time – which depending on their shift times and that state’s labor laws, could put the company in trouble if Ann isn’t taking her lunch breaks as scheduled.

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    2. HiddenT*

      I’m very curious what Ann was telling management to make them conclude she was being bullied. I wonder if “Friend” will come clean now that she doesn’t have Ann around to force her to act a certain way. It sounds like they had a super codependent relationship and Ann had a strongly manipulative personality that she used to keep “Friend” in line. Often times that ends up with stuff coming to light later where the one being manipulated says something and everyone figures out that the manipulator straight up lied about a bunch of stuff.

      Reply ↓
  5. Dawn*

    OP1 – hey, we spoke a little on your original post. I’m glad to hear things worked out for you in the long run! It sounds like the explanation for boss’s behaviour turned out to be just about what I suspected it was, and nobody should have to put up with that.

    Reply ↓
  6. Kara*

    LW4 – I’m from Georgia and I’m going to say with all the positive and loving meaning in the phrase: Bless your heart. You’re beating yourself up – and continuing to beat yourself up – over something that doesn’t deserve that level of self-flagellation.

    Even the fact that you refer to it as “The Lie” with scare-capitals and talking about “the past to catch up with me” shows that you’ve made this one situation from over a decade ago into a big scary monster in your closet. I really encourage you to take a deep breath and let this go. It’s very likely that the few people you say you worked with back then have completely forgotten about the whole situation. Seriously I do not remember anything about the families of people I worked with a decade ago unless I’ve remained friends with them outside of work. And unless you go around talking about your mother all the time at work, it’s unlikely that any one of them is suddenly going to confront you about your “dying mom” – again from over a decade ago.

    The answer here is that you need to forgive yourself for a situation you got yourself into when you were young and that is not at all pertinent to your current life.

    Reply ↓
    1. Ha2*

      Thissss. LW4 you are probably the only one that remembers or cares what excuse you used to get out of the BS noncompete. Anyone who vaguely remembers has no way of knowing it was a lie anyway.

      Put it out of your mind.

      Reply ↓
  8. RCB*

    #4: You did nothing wrong!! One of my hobbies, because I like poking the bear and hate abuses of power, is to email companies when I find illegal (or highly unethical) items in their job postings to let them know, it’s always fun to strike fear in them. Usually it’s simple things like not putting the salary in it when it’s now required by law (in the state where I live). However, the other day I read one and it said something to the effect of “If you currently work for one of our customers or competitors then you must have permission from their board to apply for this position as we need to comply with our agreements with them not to hire their employees.” Man did I have fun with that one!! I sent them links to the big tech case from a few years ago when Apple, Google, and all of them had agreements not to hire each other’s employees and had to pay out massive settlements, because you can’t limit people’s work options. I also mentioned “and the tech companies didn’t have it written out, you’ve literally put it out there for the world to see that you have made these agreements, this is a lawyer’s dream!”

    I didn’t get a response back from them (I have always gotten responses thanking me, and I always make sure I go right to the head of the organization, no point in keeping it lowkey), but that job posting definitely got updated pretty darn quickly!! All of this to say: cut yourself some slack, companies are shady as hell and will screw you any chance they get, you had the chance to even the score for once and you took it, good for you!!

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  10. Observer*

    #1 – Well, well, well…

    It was pretty obvious from the get go that this was a “manager” issue, not anything to do with you. This outcome certainly indicates that it was more that just a manager over-stepping just a bit. I would be shocked if you turned out to be wrong about there being more to the story behind the scenes. Not that you are likely to find out the details, but that’s fine.

    Reply ↓

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