updates: the damaged bookcase, showing armpit hair at work, and more

by Alison Green on December 10, 2024

It’s “where are you now?” month at Ask a Manager, and all December I’m running updates from people who had their letters here answered in the past. Here are three updates from past letter-writers.

1. Should I tell a student worker the real reason we’re ending her job? (#2 at the link)

I really appreciated your advice (and the suggestions of the commenters), and it helped frame the nature of my relationship with and responsibilities to my student workers. In practice, though, well…

My boss, who was also my predecessor’s boss, was the person who was adamant that Ciara not be let go earlier and be given a second (and third, and fourth) chance. After spending a lot of time preparing for the conversation and writing out notes of what to say based on your advice, I made the mistake of asking my boss to sit in on the conversation as a neutral third party. Immediately she launched in, saying that Ciara was being let go through no fault of her own, there was truly nothing we could’ve done, and that she’d be happy to serve as a reference in the future. Which, of course, prompted Ciara to ask if she could come back in the fall when her work study funding was renewed. I had to sheepishly slide in, my “we’re firing you” script clenched in my lap, and try to gently convey that we were, in fact, firing her. It was all a bit of a mess, but I think I was ultimately able to hit all the points you suggested and it worked out okay. Ciara left on decently good terms when her funding ran out, and when it came time to hire another student I absolutely hit the jackpot with someone who was curious, motivated, and accountable.

On a broader scale, that one early experience with my boss ended up being indicative of a pretty terrible working relationship. She’d been a professor for most of her career and didn’t have much supervisory experience, and often conflated being a boss with being a bully. She’d assign me extensive, complex projects one week, only to change her mind the next week and send me off on something completely different. She made me ask for her permission whenever I wanted to leave the office (I was a salaried, professional employee)– when I was offered a speaking opportunity in another department, she refused to let me go. A couple times, she yelled at me for “undermining” her, and eventually told me not to “bother her any more with my questions”. It was exhausting and awful. After about 8 months of this, I left for a position at another university in the area.

And I guess, that’s the good news of this update! I love my new job– my boss is kind and competent, the expectations are clearly defined and my work is really interesting to me, and the overall workplace culture is just so much better. I don’t supervise students in my new role, but I learned so much from my previous experience (both as a supervisor and as someone with a bully boss) and I’m excited to utilize that the next time I’m in a management capacity!

2. Can I show armpit hair at work?

I wrote a few years ago to ask about whether hairy armpits were acceptable with professional outfits at the office, and my update is that now (working at a different office, with 6 more years of life and armpit experience), I would never DREAM of going sleeveless at work, hair or no. I have a couple colleagues who do and it’s no big deal, but I have grown to consider underarms an off-the-clock experience, personally.

It has been an interesting adjustment to the professional world, though; at the time I wrote, I was in grad school and in a temporary office job amid a string of gig work and self-employment. I’ve now been at a local government job about a year and a half and have discovered that looking a smidge more polished helps me feel more capable, and that there are a bunch of tricks to balance this goal with my neurodivergent need to be physically comfy during the workday. Most recent discovery is the existence of fake collared “shirts” so I can look like I’m wearing a button-down without anything getting bunched up under my sweater! Also, keeping a cardigan, a blazer, and a super-light jacket at the office has helped me tolerate all kinds of unseasonal temps at my desk. Plus handwarmers and a fan. (I actually would love a reader discussion about gadgets/clothes/adaptations that have helped them feel physically more comfortable at work.)

But as for the armpits: still hairy, now hidden.

Thank you as always for your great advice!

3. Building staff damaged my bookcase (#2 at the link)

Many thanks to Alison and the many commenters for your thoughts! I clarified a few things in the comments: the artwork was business-related, and building maintenance asked that they do any picture hanging to avoid damage to the walls. As to why the bookcase was in the office in the first place: it’s meant to be a client-facing space, but I was given very little money to make the office attractive. I decided that displaying the piece was worth the risk, rather than keeping it in my parents’ attic where it had been for years.

While I was a bit miffed in the moment, I decided (as many of you suggested) to not make much hay. I did mention it in passing to a supervisor, whom I have a good rapport with. He apologized but didn’t offer any resolution–and that was fine by me. I covered the area with a knick knack and nobody is the wiser.

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{ 63 comments }

{ 63 comments… read them below or add one }

    2. Hairy OP*

      I totally agree! The update is zero percent prescriptive, just a shift in my own level of comfort/work dress preferences. I freely air hairy armpits outside the office.

      Reply ↓
    3. Tea Monk*

      Yea if it’s summer and shaving is flaring up ( edited for medical stuff), it’s hairy armpits. The medical stuff is way grosser than hair

      Reply ↓
    4. Not a dr*

      Me too! I wear sleeveless tops and show my hairy pits. I do work in a more casually dressed field and tend to dress a bit fancier than my co-workers. And have been here long enough that they know my work quality, so I feel comfortable.

      Reply ↓
    6. Sometimes Charlotte*

      The way I see it, women usually have more latitude to go sleeveless at work than men do. And part of that argument has been armpit hair and that men can’t be sleeveless with their armpit hair on display. By extension, if a woman isn’t shaving her armpits (and I am a woman who usually does not) then she shouldn’t be sleeveless at a job where men do not have the same flexibility.

      Reply ↓
  2. Amsonia*

    #1, your old boss (who had been a professor) sounds like she was a terrible professor too. All the behaviors you describe are awful in a teacher as well as in a supervisor.

    Reply ↓
    2. Selina Luna*

      I’ve been a teacher for over a decade, and you’re right that these are terrible behaviors in a teacher. I honestly expect most college professors to be poor teachers. They usually want to be focused on research, not teaching, and often follow the worst possible practices.

      Reply ↓
      1. Strive to Excel*

        The whole system of making people who are top-tier researchers do herd teaching has always seemed odd to me. I’m reminded of a story my Dad told me about a physics professor he had. The professor has a German accent so strong as to be nearly incomprehensible to the untrained ear, had a habit of talking with his back to the class, and a teaching style of filling up a blackboard with teeny tiny equations while talking non-stop. He also had a Nobel Prize in physics. Absolutely brilliant man, but making him teach Physics 201 was a less-than-optimal use of everyone’s time.

        Reply ↓
      2. JustaTech*

        I didn’t realize how lucky I was that my undergrad is teaching first, research second until I took an undergraduate class at a major research university and was amazed at how bad some of the professors were at *teaching*.
        It was a course taught by many professors (which probably exacerbated the issue) but one guy could not stop talking about the one very specific cell signaling pathway he had discovered (to the point that we didn’t cover an entire lecture of other material), and another just read straight from his slides like a robot, and most of the TAs had no idea how to help anyone with their questions.

        I finally asked one TA how many actual *teaching* classes they took as part of their degree program and he looked at me like I was crazy and said “none”. Well, there’s your problem!

        Reply ↓
  3. StarTrek Nutcase*

    #1, IME many professors do equate boss & bully (at least until they move into administration). I was a staff asst. (aka office manager) in a department of 17 professors, 5 staff, and a multitude of research assets, lab techs, & grad students. As I dealt with university bureaucracy to fire one secretary, professors came out of the woodwork to try to persuade me to not do so. This was despite each and every one of them refusing to have her touch their work. Somehow her feelings & need for a job should rule supreme, and not my extensive overtime doing my job & 90% of hers for months. I ended up telling them to STFU (professionally) or she “would” do their work. Eventually she was fired as she refused to quietly resign.

    Looking back, at an early time in my career, it was a valuable learning experience in many ways. I learned frank feedback is vital & equal mean, never do overtime without pay (even if my motive in doing it is to benefit me in short term), professors may be more educated but can still lack common sense, and I hate supervising. All lessons I had to relearn a few times.

    Reply ↓
    1. Higher Miseducation*

      professors may be more educated but can still lack common sense

      If you hate professors so much, don’t work at a university. They’re the raison d’etre of the place and will always, always call the shots. It’s like being non-family at a family business, but even more so, because they actually have credentials beyond blood that justify their positions.

      Reply ↓
      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        STN didn’t say she hated professors — just that academic brilliance does not always correlate with common sense. She hates *supervising*… something with which I sympathize.

        Reply ↓
          1. Lady Lessa*

            I’ve seen similar things myself. Especially when a professor gets involved in industrial manufacturing. I respect their knowledge, but often the production worker knows more about the process and equipment.

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        2. Lana Kane*

          I see this in healthcare as well. Doctors can be brilliant in medicine but when it comes to staff issues…

          Supervising in a healthcare office environment was not for me.

          Reply ↓
      2. Zoe Karvounopsina*

        I work in HE, and professors are good *at things which are in their remit*. The problem comes when they dismiss things that they don’t do, because how can they be important, or assume that because they are professors, they don’t need to train for related activities.

        Reply ↓
      3. What_the_What*

        That was a very aggressive take on what STN said. That’s like telling someone who’s relating a perfectly normal story about an issue with their boss at work “If you hate having a boss so much you should start your own company.” Serious overreaction. It was also, if you read the post fully for comprehension, something STN was relating from long ago “early in his/her career”. And STN is correct. I work with highly educated engineers, education doesn’t equal common sense or people skills. It wasn’t an insult to anyone. You took it wayyyyyyyy too personally.

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      4. LL*

        This is ridiculous. Professors need to learn how to behave in the workplace just like people who work outside academia do. We need to stop excusing shitty behavior in professors.

        Also, newsflash, STUDENTs are the raison d’etre. You can have all the professors you want, but w/out the students, you don’t have a University.

        Reply ↓
        1. bleh*

          Most Professors do not display more shitty behavior than your average bear; people just notice because they expect more, perhaps rightly. As an administrator who deals with the most shitty of it (or sometimes the aftermath of said behavior), working in an office, bank, and pizza place all with petty tyrants and childish colleagues was waaaaay worse. At least the Professors are usually smart about it.

          Reply ↓
  4. Inkognyto*

    #2 –

    There’s jackets that are lined with heat elements for warmth. They run on on a re-chargable battery for hours.

    Like the battery zips into an inner pocket.

    I use them in the cold winter to do stuff outside on the mini ranch in a lighter jacket, but still stay warm.

    Reply ↓
    2. Anax*

      For the overheating side: Icepacks, icepacks, icepacks! In a pinch, a cold can of soda pressed to the inside of the wrist does wonders – it’s all about putting it somewhere with a lot of bloodflow.

      Also, investing in natural fibers has done wonders for my overheating; polyester and spandex against the skin is NOT my friend.

      And on the neurodivergent-but-not-temperature front: Soft-soled “indoor only” shoes, so I could sit cross-legged at my office chair without being barefoot. I’m fully remote these days, but that was a lifesaver when I was in-office.

      Reply ↓
      2. Radioactive Cyborg Llama*

        I have a small fan that plugs into my USB port. I have to hide it when I’m not using it though because it’s stupidly technically prohibited at my workplace (in the category of heaters, hotplates, etc.; I assume so you can’t claim a heater is a fan).

        Reply ↓
      3. Jen*

        Completely agree on the natural fibers! I love merino wool for work because it’s quite warm but also breathable, and on those days when my space decides to be warm instead of cold, it still doesn’t have me overheating.

        Reply ↓
    3. Freya*

      My husband and I have the ones that use the same battery as our cordless tools, so we have a bunch of spare battery packs and a multi-pack charger, and there’s always at least one charged battery ready to go.

      Reply ↓
    4. Chickadee*

      I keep a plug-in heating pad at my desk for menstrual cramps and back pain, but I imagine it would work well for winter chill is well.

      Reply ↓
    5. Owl-a-roo*

      As a constantly cold person, I firmly endorse a good heating pad for staving off the office chill! I have an extra-long one from Sunbeam which covers my entire back. It even has two elastic loops on it so I can keep it rolled up in my work backpack (we don’t have assigned desks).

      Hot drinks are also a very good way to stay warm. I have a good, insulated travel mug and sometimes just drink straight-up hot water if I’m desperate and have run out of teabags.

      Back when I had an assigned desk, I pretty much constantly had a space heater running during work hours (even in the summer – A/C is my enemy), but not all offices allow that.

      Reply ↓
    6. Insert Clever Name Here*

      I have a heated blanket (that is in line with my company’s safety & facilities requirements) and I regularly have people go “oooh that is an awesome idea.”

      Reply ↓
  5. Irianamistifi*

    LW 2, I discovered usb-powered mug warmers and I wouldn’t go into the office without them ever again. Just plug in to your computer and I’m free to forget I got tea all day! And when I do remember it’s there, it’s still hot.

    Reply ↓
  6. GoodNPlenty*

    Re#3….one thing I bought that made my office years bearable was a foot heater. Our office was built on a slab and the floor was freezing all winter. I could rest my feet on the foot heater and had no more numb, frozen toes.

    Reply ↓
    3. SarahKay*

      I have a heated mat (aka foot heater, link in next comment) and a heated mouse, and I love them both. They’ve massively improved my comfort at work.
      You may remove them from my *warm* dead hands :D

      Reply ↓
      1. Dek*

        A heated MOUSE?!

        …I might grab one of those for the office gift swap. I can think of a few people who would love that.

        I have a little heating pad and a blanket. In a library I probably should also have a cardigan, but I default to a leather jacket. I had one coworker who wore a snuggy.

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      3. Gumby*

        A co-worker got me a heated desk pad. It goes under my keyboard and mouse. (But not anywhere near my laptop! That is on a docking station to the side.) On colder days, I sometimes put my hands under the keyboard when I’m not actively typing as the heat gets a little trapped there making it the warmest part of the pad. I admit that if I have the pad on a higher temperature the keyboard starts curving up a bit but it goes back to the original flatness when the heat is off.

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    4. SarahKay*

      And link to Amazon (UK) for the heated mat – I imagine something similar would be available in the US too: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-Heating-Handmade-Footswitch-Indicator/dp/B07NCXFVCY/ref=sr_1_5?crid=XOMRWYX5TFG5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.K64hC8On1X0ecTzddljpbjs4Ak-kjQVvoc26HLuxRTwtmA_yzEWhOJ4IGJox4hv0bGkD9wFC5OdCgX-0pVJRvhmPJBqgTPuV3L-w7qsPpjkLIKm68AfnRx68IhvpU_ZSkF8vPp2uh2fccxmZ-92sKmgeE-KpHvbAAwfQcEMzdA0T9Tw7qGFtLE7FDYsWrgAnC9G-AKnr9714DT2Way4A6MlHuflB-qKLE532Ur-YkmrT-I9hMixyd5U7QwLVg_jMLblOBvsjXVSqOiQg4J7EnKwmztsIPxypfi2ptOdWj4yZDgvg8Ck5lyGNmG01mYROcfe3CmytLJqRNHPEC6gGRdtNt4wwHtfGOD1ZTQUkq0XDekWYij0YXq87FJf6guaRWrEPIXeEhRaH5cySYdHFP8jVyhnAwPRMX6vKiy0X_N6K-LuejzjSJgG9lQ_KoP-a._x26a2LgpaKu9JfGhIpVEXSNaSuKYaQQvzMSue1vXkY&dib_tag=se&keywords=electric+heated+mat+foot+warmer&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1733882256&sprefix=heated+mat+foot%2Caps%2C114&sr=8-5

      Reply ↓
      1. Mrs. Pommeroy*

        A quick note: When sharing amazon links, you can delete most of the looooong string of letters and numbers and still have the link work!
        To be precise, you can delete everything after the short word ref – and including the “ref” itself, actually.
        So in the link above, everything after
        Electric-Heating-Handmade-Footswitch-Indicator/dp/B07NCXFVCY/
        is superfluous and can be scratched.

        This shortens the links you send, and – as far as I was told – means amazon can’t track who else clicks on that link.

        Reply ↓
      2. Frank Doyle*

        For future reference (and I’m not picking on you, a lot of people don’t know this): when you have a long link like that, you can (almost always) delete the “?” and everything after it and it will still work. That’s all just tracking information.

        the_more_you_know.gif

        Reply ↓
    5. Ann Onymous*

      I have a heated footrest, and I love it! My feet get cold easily if I’m not moving around, so this is a lifesaver. If I’m really cold, I can also fold up the legs and put it behind me in my chair.

      Reply ↓
    6. Strive to Excel*

      Oh bless this sounds exactly like what I need for home. I live in a very tiny house and the heat tends to settle upstairs, and my feet are always cold!

      Reply ↓
    1. Ann Onymous*

      I do not particularly enjoy wearing shoes, so I tend to look for shoes that slip on and off easily so I can slide my feet out of them when I’m sitting at my desk.

      Reply ↓
      1. JustaTech*

        I had a coworker who kept a pair of warm slippers that weren’t *too* obviously slippers at her desk because when her feet got cold she was impossible to deal with (her description).

        Reply ↓
    2. Strive to Excel*

      I find it hard to recommend specific clothes and brands because I buy basically everything secondhand, haha!

      That said, my biggest recommendation is to focus on the undergarments. If your socks/underclothes are uncomfortable, then no matter what you wear over top you’ll be dealing with baseline unhappiness.

      Natural fabrics (cotton/linen/wool/silk) tend to breath a lot better than their synthetic counterparts.

      And for women, a nice black cardigan/open sweater is a great formality booster to an otherwise more casual shirt.

      Reply ↓
  9. nonee*

    #2, YMMV but I’ve found that dresses solve many of my office-wear comfort woes. No weird waistbands digging in, and you can find many with touches that make them look more “formal” while still being as comfortable as a nice cotton nightie. I’ve also given up on “professional” shoes and wear black sneakers every day. I do wear orthotics so have a reasonable need for accommodation, but really no one ever asks.

    Reply ↓
    1. Carmina*

      Me too! And it’s one that’s especially interesting to revisit some years later, since the perception is shifting a bit.

      It’s too bad that the question is now moot for this LW because I have recently stopped shaving also (armpits and legs) and am unsure how to handle! My office tends to be pretty cold so I’m usually covered up, but there’s some exceptions (the summer outdoors party, that time I spilled coffee on my sweater) that I’m not sure how to handle.

      Reply ↓
      1. Hairy OP*

        I did wear a sleeveless outfit to an outdoor work party this past summer– it was really hot out, and most people were less formal (we were joking about how it turns out we all do have toes — coming from a closed-toe workplace).

        Honestly, I think avoiding armpits lately is more for my sake — I sometimes feel like I don’t quite fit in, so I’d rather just not think about certain things I’d otherwise wear loud and proud.

        And thank you for the kind note about the writing– that made me really happy:)

        Reply ↓
  11. WileyCayote*

    #1 – your original letter was so thought-provoking to me! It made me stop and really analyze my own judgments about what is and is not professional dress. I realize I hold somewhat contradictory viewpoints, and I am not sure how to reconcile them (other than to determine that what other people wear in the office is just not my business). I somehow simultaneously believe that 1) visible armpit hair is unprofessional; 2) women should not be expected to shave body hair that men are not expected to shave; 3) sleeveless women’s blouses are more professional looking than short sleeve blouses; 4)men’s short sleeve shirts are professional looking in certain environments, but not as professional as long sleeves; 5) men’s sleeveless shirts are unprofessional and should not be worn in an office environment.

    I feel these views are contradictory and hypocritical. Maybe the conclusion is that body hair is unprofessional, and should either be shaved or hidden? I don’t know, but it’s been an interesting thought experiment.

    Reply ↓
    2. Strive to Excel*

      I think what I take away from my own assumptions is that:

      1. “Professional” clothes are also more structured ones – men’s shirts are ones made of more starched fabrics and cleanly ironed, women’s clothes are specifically darted and layered to give the garment more standalone shape.

      2. No one’s making structured clothes with no sleeves for men; the only men’s clothes in sleeveless I’ve seen are the tank top near-pajama variety, or various sports jerseys.

      3. Our view of women’s professional clothes still conforms to a societal standard of beauty – structured sleeveless blouses are somewhat limiting, especially in colder climates!

      4. Armpit hair is considered unprofessional on everyone.

      To me the real wrench in the works is #3, which is that we still associate unchangeable physical characteristics of the person with our view of their professionalism.

      I also agree with you that unless and until someone shows up naked or in an offensive graphic tee shirt it is none of my business!

      Reply ↓
      1. SpaceySteph*

        I think the real wrench in the works is that someone who physically conforms to certain societal standards of beauty will be considered more professional looking even in the exact same clothing as someone who doesn’t.

        Thinking of the letter (pretty sure it was on this site) from the woman with a large chest who received criticism of dressing too revealing even though a smaller chested woman in the same shirt would have likely been fine, for example.

        People who are overweight will be seen as slobbish while someone thin in the same outfit wouldn’t be (in large part due to how the items fit their body, not the items themselves)… but also people who are like supermodel-beautiful will be seen as less professional-looking than their more “regular” looking peers in a smart business suit.

        Reply ↓
        1. Reluctant Mezzo*

          Frederick’s of Hollywood actually used to have some business wear in their catalogs. This helps the short person who is built like the 10 oz Coca-Cola bottle not look like a short tank. However, there are some business functions where it’s probably better to go with the short tank look.

          Reply ↓
  12. KJ*

    #2 I also have a government job. We have to make sure we’re wearing layers to stay comfortable because temperature control within our building isn’t consistent. I usually wear dressy T-shirts in the summertime. I bring a light fleece with me to wear throughout the year. I use it when the AC is on in the summer (I get cold), and wear it during the winter. Canadian winters require layers to stay warm when you’re outside. You might be able to ask for a portable desk fan. We even have staff ask for tabletop humidifiers if you’re sensitive to allergies/dryness. Ultimately, it will depend on what your building/bosses will allow.

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  13. Sometimes Charlotte*

    As someone who supervises student employees and non-student employees, I feel a responsibility to teach students office norms such as being on time or not doing personal work on the clock. I think we fail students by not giving them needed feedback on their resumes, interview skills, office behavior, etc. and it frustrates me when I’ve had supervisors think we should let it go because they are students.

    Reply ↓

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